Best Way to adapt a 6in Stove to an 8in Thimble

[pen]

Afternoon all,

Just today I replaced my trusty old Fisher Grandma Bear with an Englander 30 series stove.

My Fisher had an 8 inch stove pipe, this Englander has a 6 in.

My question is is it better to convert pipe size from 6 to 8 closer to the stove? Or Closer to the thimble?

My friend has a similar setup and his stove has difficulties starting (it's smokey) until the draft really gets going.

My wife LOVES burning wood but will NOT tolerate a house that smells like smoke. With that old Fisher guests were amazed that I burned wood if I got up from the table to tend the fire since we had ZERO smoke smell.

If my wife smells smoke with this Englander, it's going down the road and it's back to the Fisher.

I would like this stove to work the same but am unable to afford lining the chimney with 6 in from top to bottom at this time.

What are your thoughts? Should I use a short sect of 6 to a 6-8 converter then run my current 8 in pipe up to the 90 and then out? Or should I run 6in up to a 6in elbow and over to an adapter that meets up with the 8 in going through the thimble / crock?

Here's a peak at my current plumbing setup.

Thanks,

pen

 

[humpin iron]

8x6 at the thimble, 6" down to the stove

 

[BrotherBart]

As to smoke, if you aren't going to use the top down fire starting method, start a good kindling fire with the door closed. Then add smaller pieces after you have that clay flue heated up good. Pretty much like you had to do with the Fisher. And crack the door just a hair for five to ten seconds to let the draft equalize from the inrush of air when you have to open the door with it burning. With the front of the firebox exhaust exit of an EPA stove the sudden flood of air into the firebox can cause some smoke not to make the turn up into the top of the stove in time if you open the door too fast.

 

[grommal]

Afternoon all,

Just today I replaced my trusty old Fisher Grandma Bear with an Englander 30 series stove.

My Fisher had an 8 inch stove pipe, this Englander has a 6 in.

My question is is it better to convert pipe size from 6 to 8 closer to the stove? Or Closer to the thimble?

My friend has a similar setup and his stove has difficulties starting (it's smokey) until the draft really gets going.

My wife LOVES burning wood but will NOT tolerate a house that smells like smoke. With that old Fisher guests were amazed that I burned wood if I got up from the table to tend the fire since we had ZERO smoke smell.

If my wife smells smoke with this Englander, it's going down the road and it's back to the Fisher.

I would like this stove to work the same but am unable to afford lining the chimney with 6 in from top to bottom at this time.

What are your thoughts? Should I use a short sect of 6 to a 6-8 converter then run my current 8 in pipe up to the 90 and then out? Or should I run 6in up to a 6in elbow and over to an adapter that meets up with the 8 in going through the thimble / crock?


Thanks,

pen

I had the same quandary, as I switched from an old VC Encore cat (8") to a new Jotul Oslo (6"). I figured the best thing would be to have the smoke traveling as fast as possible for as long as possible, so I decided to run 6 from the stove all the way to an adapter up to 8 that I placed at the very rear of the thimble. This turns out to have other advantages, I think. I then had plenty of space to insulate the 6 as it passed through most of the thimble length, and having the adapter at the rear of the thimble gave me some extra wiggle room on the stovepipe for easier installation, since I have a very tight run from the stove.

I considered just propping up the 6" pipe in the center of the thimble, and stuffing insulation all around (suggested by all the stove shops where I shopped around), but I feel better about the more positive placement of the adapter in the thimble.

 

[pen]

BB, thanks for the suggestions. That's pretty much what I had to do when I built the custom baffle for my fisher stove. Fingers crossed that the reduced chimney size running into the larger chimney won't cause me problems.

Grommal, I hadn't even thought of doing it that way but that makes sense. Perhaps bringing the six inch pipe all the way to the chimney so that it can "dump" directly into the vertical chimney shaft will be better than converting to the 6 in at the start of the thimble/crock and "dumping" into an 8 in horizontal. Now's it's just a matter of whether or not I can get that adapter to fit all the way into the back of the thimble / crock to meet the chimney. I suppose I'll have to find one that is female on the 8in side and male on the 6 in to do this? Hmm, or do all of the connectors, male or female, have the "bump" stop to keep from over connecting the pieces? I'd imagine that that bump would be the part that wouldn't fit through the crock but be meant to mesh with the 8 in pipe that I have in there now.

Thanks again everyone. I am paranoid about this as I did this exact same setup except with a used EarthStove at a friends house, hooked it up w/ the coupler meeting the face of the thimble and that stove has a terrible time getting started. You can fill that dang stove to the brim w/ newspaper start it up, close the door, and the paper would go out while smoke was pouring into the room from the air inlets! Even a cold air intake didn't help the starting problem, just kept the smoke working backwards outside. Once we got a fire started in that stove in Early October, he didn't let it go out until Early May. When going, the stove never had a drafting problem. But god help you if it went out. I am concerned because my stove simply needs to go out from time to time as my wife and I can't always be around to tend it.

pen

 

[BrotherBart]

You can get a six male to eight female in the pipe section at Lowe's and just force feed it all the way thorough the thimble if you want to. I did that for a while. If you ever go to take it out, and you will because it corrodes pretty fast, it is a pain in the butt. Be sure to push it through with the six inch pipe already securely screw connected to it.

You can do all sorts of things but if not this year, next year a chimney liner kit is going to be on your Christmas list. The dang things are just to good not to do it. Oh, and if you do it now you get the tax credit on it too.

Wish I had discovered them 20 years ago.

 

[BrotherBart]

BTW: Is that chimney 8" tile all the way up or is it just the thimble that is eight and the tile another larger size? And is the vertical part round tiles?

 

[pen]

Well, it's strange and I'm glad you asked. The manual for my old fisher states that while the thimble must be 8in diameter, the chimney must only be at least 50sq inches in a cross section and gives the options of either 8in round or 7 1/4 in square (seems strange to have a smaller chimney than the thimble but the manual says it's A-OK) My chimney is the later, 7 1/4 in square masonry clay w/ brick outside built in 83. Not a super tall chimney as the house is a split level design w/ the stove in the basement and only 1/2 of the basement wall being buried, but it always has drafted awesomely.

Regardless, I'm not so sure that I'll be able to get a 6 in liner down this 7 1/4 chimney and I haven't found anyone in my area that does the poured type. That's the other reason why I'm dragging my feet on lining it. It's in good shape yet and just seems a waste to completely tear it down. Gotta be some option.

pen

 

[summit]

get a thimble sizer.. its like a doughnut you stuff in the thimble.. it allows the female end of your stack to insert into the chimney and telescope back and forth within the thimble's depth. this has two advantages; no real cuts to make on the horizontal run, adjust the depth on the hearth easily (well, for 4-5 inches based on chim thickness, maybe a little more 7-8 you since you have an extra layer of brickwork in front of the chimney) and the crimps stay running down towards the stove. also looks nicer IMHO because it does not flare out from the chimney, but mounts in flush with the thimble for a more finished appearance. also good for chim cleaning time, because it slides out with little effort and no screws.

 

[BrotherBart]

get a thimble sizer.. its like a doughnut you stuff in the thimble.. it allows the female end of your stack to insert into the chimney and telescope back and forth within the thimble's depth. this has two advantages; no real cuts to make on the horizontal run, adjust the depth on the hearth easily (well, for 4-5 inches based on chim thickness, maybe a little more 7-8 you since you have an extra layer of brickwork in front of the chimney) and the crimps stay running down towards the stove. also looks nicer IMHO because it does not flare out from the chimney, but mounts in flush with the thimble for a more finished appearance. also good for chim cleaning time, because it slides out with little effort and no screws.

Where do ya find them thangs summit?

 

[summit]

get a thimble sizer.. its like a doughnut you stuff in the thimble.. it allows the female end of your stack to insert into the chimney and telescope back and forth within the thimble's depth. this has two advantages; no real cuts to make on the horizontal run, adjust the depth on the hearth easily (well, for 4-5 inches based on chim thickness, maybe a little more 7-8 you since you have an extra layer of brickwork in front of the chimney) and the crimps stay running down towards the stove. also looks nicer IMHO because it does not flare out from the chimney, but mounts in flush with the thimble for a more finished appearance. also good for chim cleaning time, because it slides out with little effort and no screws.

Where do ya find them thangs summit?

we have a couple pipe companies here in Maine that make them, and every time i show one to a customer, they are like "wow".. its like the wheel, so simple. Anyways, the company names are Elmer's Pipe in lewiston/auburn area (sounds like a rinky dink outfit, but they are usually at the expo w/ a nice booth every year), and another company down by the coast named Thompson and Anderson. they are 22 gauge black pipe, with heavy seams that are welded/rolled instead of riveted like the 24g pipe. run @ 34 $ a piece, depending on diameter, but well worth it. even adapts into metalbestos nicely (for thiose horizontal pass thrus).. i actually used one today into a 7" liner installing a pe spectrum.. fit nicely into the 7" insulated liner tee for a 7 to 6 fit, and since he had a setup with a big brick wall in front of the chimney, worked quite well, because we used a 12" section into a sizer into a tee w/ a 14" long snout.. had basically infinite adjustability back and forth onto the hearth with no cuts to make.

 

[BrotherBart]

Elmer's Pipe makes some good stuff. Not just that thingy.

 

[summit]

Elmer's Pipe makes some good stuff. Not just that thingy.

their chimney liner is the best.. very heavy, but easy to unroll, hangs straight in the chimney w/ out bending, simple and sturdy components.. awesome stuff. getting 40' feet of it up a roof is alotta fun, but people are always impressed w/ quality of it.

 

[BrotherBart]

Elmer's Pipe makes some good stuff. Not just that thingy.

their chimney liner is the best.. very heavy, but easy to unroll, hangs straight in the chimney w/ out bending, simple and sturdy components.. awesome stuff. getting 40' feet of it up a roof is alotta fun, but people are always impressed w/ quality of it.

Magnaflex would tell you it can't be good because it ain't thin enough. Yeah I think Elmer's flex for 40 feet weighs something like 130 pounds. Lotta metal in there somewhere.

 

[summit]

Elmer's Pipe makes some good stuff. Not just that thingy.

their chimney liner is the best.. very heavy, but easy to unroll, hangs straight in the chimney w/ out bending, simple and sturdy components.. awesome stuff. getting 40' feet of it up a roof is alotta fun, but people are always impressed w/ quality of it.

Magnaflex would tell you it can't be good because it ain't thin enough. Yeah I think Elmer's flex for 40 feet weighs something like 130 pounds. Lotta metal in there somewhere.

i can use my razorblade to easilly cut most of the "thin wall" chimney liners to length... i have to use a grinder or a circular saw with an abrasion wheel to cut elmer, or a sawzall with a brand new metal blade... if i used my razor, the liner would laugh at me, the razor would break, and the flyiing shard of blade would probably hit me right in the eye...

 

[mellow]

i can use my razorblade to easilly cut most of the "thin wall" chimney liners to length... i have to use a grinder or a circular saw with an abrasion wheel to cut elmer, or a sawzall with a brand new metal blade... if i used my razor, the liner would laugh at me, the razor would break, and the flyiing shard of blade would probably hit me right in the eye...

That is the kind of statement I would like to see under the testimonials for a chimney liner

 

[pen]

As much as I like the idea of using my 6-8 adapter right at the back of my crock/thimble, I couldn't find a 6-8 adapter that would fit into the clay crock. With that said, I'll just use the adapter at the face of the thimble and keep the 8 in pipe inside. If I try things out and I'm not happy with the draft, then I'll trim the 17 dollar adapter so that it'll fit through the crock later on.

pen