"Bake your firewood" law coming to New York??

[jdemaris]

Just read that that great law-makers here in New York state are proposing a new law that will require all firewood sold in New York that is transported more then 50 miles to be baked first.
Must be baked at a minimum of 160 degrees F for 75 minutes before sold.

I'm wondering, how in the heck are they going to enforce? Firewood police? And, I wonder what will happen to prices from law-abiding sellers?

Guess I'm glad I own my own woodlots and cut all my own wood. But, I have several lots over 50 miles from my home.

 

[Pagey]

What is the purpose of this law? To reduce the weight of the wood to avoid wear and tear on the road? To decrease the moisture content to avoid smoking out your neighbors?

 

[Adios Pantalones]

Should they just ignore the ash borers, Japanese longhorned beetles, etc and let vast areas of forest die? they are real, and vicious threats.

 

[Adios Pantalones]

What is the purpose of this law? To reduce the weight of the wood to avoid wear and tear on the road? To decrease the moisture content to avoid smoking out your neighbors?

I believe it's to kill destructive insects- like pine borers, asian lonhorned beetles, locust borers, emerald ash beetles, etc.

 

[crs7200]

Baked log load recipe

Put tri axle in oven at 160 degrees for 1 hour

baste with bar oil to get that crisp outer shell

flip half way through

serve with a lager beer and enjoy


May as well go back to burning oil

New York State is totally out of control with EVERYTHING. i really like this state but the "Law makers" are idiots and I can't believe that I still live here.

Rant, rant, rave... go to work , pay bills, start over. Oh well.

I know..insects are bad. All wood will be gone in less than 10 years and then we will have to burn plastic garbage bags. No bugs in them.

 

[Badfish740]

I believe it's to kill destructive insects- like pine borers, asian lonhorned beetles, locust borers, emerald ash beetles, etc.

Without a doubt. Don't many states already restrict the movement of firewood across state lines to prevent the spread of insects anyway? Besides, I would say that few firewood dealers deliver to customers farther than 50 miles away. Even with today's diesel prices (compared to this time last year) the cost of delivery would be substantial. I know it seems like the evil gubment is meddling in our affairs again, but the abovementioned critters are no joke. Here in New Jersey we're still battling Gypsy Moth Caterpillars and losing.

 

[jdemaris]

Should they just ignore the ash borers, Japanese longhorned beetles, etc and let vast areas of forest die? they are real, and vicious threats.

They already have ignored it and it's way too late. New York blames a nursery in Michigan for illegally shipping trees into New York years back, but who knows. Same sort of thing with Zerbra mussels, milfoil, deer chronic wasting disease, etc.

Many of these new laws are all show, and no go.

When it comes to the point that I can be pulled over, and perhaps, have to show documentation of wood origin, and documentation of proper baking, it's gotten rediculous. A "day late and a dollar short."

I'm all for trying to protect the evironment, but not for throwing money at problems that could of been prevented, weren't, and now cannot be stopped by these simplistic proposed remedies.

 

[Adios Pantalones]

I see your point, but there's a problem now and they have to do something. I don't know how to fix it. In central MA they are cutting and burning many acres of trees to kill the local asian longhorn beetles. It's probably the right response there.

 

[jdemaris]

Besides, I would say that few firewood dealers deliver to customers farther than 50 miles away.

Here in New Jersey we're still battling Gypsy Moth Caterpillars and losing.

It's not the 50 mile limit I'm worried about. It's the regulation involved and . . . how do you prove you did NOT exceed the limit? Are we going to have to spend money to certify local wood driven across town is in compliance? It can be hard to prove a negative.

As to New Jersey? When I was a kid there in the early 50s, in Bergen County, planes used to fly overhead almost weekly during the summer, dumping DDT on our heads. Hey, maybe that's what's wrong with me now? Maybe Rachel Carlson was right and I've got brain damage.

 

[ScottF]

Must be baked at a minimum of 160 degrees F for 75 minutes before sold.

I wonder if they can be broiled or sauteed? Will the bugs still taste as good if you prepare them in these ways?? HMMMMM

 

[Eric Johnson]

The 50-mile limit is an arbitrary number. Nobody is going to follow you around to see how far you haul your wood. Loggers and sawmills routinely haul the same wood in log length all over the state and to other states. They're not limited to 50 miles. I guess the theory behind this new law is that it's easier to keep an eye on known loggers and sawmillers than it is to monitor people hauling firewood, and the professionals are in a position to know the dangers associated with various species and regions. The DEC doesn't want campers and homeowners bringing ash from infested areas into those that are not, and I guess imposing a 50-mile limit looks good on paper.

 

[billb3]

Without looking for info it sounds like Longhaulers who were put out of business came up with this as a solution.

There's always a cheater (not always a principal involved) and regulating / oversight and paying for it becomes the problem.

 

[LLigetfa]

According to the following site, the cost to heat treat firewood using natural gas is around $11 per cord for just the energy portion. Of course there is significant capital outlay and there is additional handling costs to pass on.
http://www.kiln-direct.com/content/faq-firewood-htregulation/index.html

 

[Adios Pantalones]

The wife and I go camping up North 1-2 times a year and I normally bring some trash wood for the fire with me (use demo bags- throw them in the back of her stawag). This year I realized that I have some sort of big beetle in my dead pine- so I brought oak instead. I could see how a casual camper etc could really help them spread.

 

[Pagey]

What is the purpose of this law? To reduce the weight of the wood to avoid wear and tear on the road? To decrease the moisture content to avoid smoking out your neighbors?

I believe it's to kill destructive insects- like pine borers, asian lonhorned beetles, locust borers, emerald ash beetles, etc.

Well, don't I feel rather silly now. LOL.

 

[ScottF]

What is the purpose of this law? To reduce the weight of the wood to avoid wear and tear on the road? To decrease the moisture content to avoid smoking out your neighbors?

2009 02:08 PM
Pagey - 08 January 2009 02:05 PM


I believe it’s to kill destructive insects- like pine borers, asian lonhorned beetles, locust borers, emerald ash beetles, etc.

Well, don’t I feel rather silly now. LOL.

Pagey Dont feel silly . You are probably correct. The next law the government will make is to mandate that all fire wood is dryed to a moisture content of less than 18%. They do need to protect us from ourselves so we cant kill ourselves with a chimney fire due to excess creosote.

 

[Adios Pantalones]

See now- If Scott had said "Well, don’t I feel rather silly now. "- then I would have said "Don't feel bad- it's only because you're stupid".

So stick around a bit Pagey- you can be stupid one day too

 

[Pagey]

See now- If Scott had said "Well, don’t I feel rather silly now. "- then I would have said "Don't feel bad- it's only because you're stupid".

So stick around a bit Pagey- you can be stupid one day too

I'm trying. I think the combination of: work, marriage, kids, beer is starting to show some good results!

 

[jdemaris]

According to the following site, the cost to heat treat firewood using natural gas is around $11 per cord for just the energy portion. Of course there is significant capital outlay and there is additional handling costs to pass on.
http://www.kiln-direct.com/content/faq-firewood-htregulation/index.html

And, if the government gets involved, who knows what the price would be.

Not long ago, when the ultra-low-sulfur-diesel idea was being proposed, the estimated cost of "cooking" standard diesel to get the sulfur out of it was 3-5 cents per gallon. At that time, diesel at the pump was a little cheaper than regular-grade gasoline. Since the low-sulfur diesel became law - ULSD is usually - at least a dollar more then regular gasoline - and to add insult-to-injury - it also has less BTU energy that gets lost during the cooking process.

How much the prices now are caused by the cooking treatment, I don't know.

Back to this new firewood law proposal, I was running it around in my head. Trying to figure - if I was the law maker, how would I propose to certify compliant wood? Well, I'm stumped. I don't see anyway this could be enforced. If so, any money spent on attempts is just another new waste of money.

I first thought mabye proof of nearby residence? So, if I get pulled over with a truck load of wood, and my driver's license and truck plates indicate I live 100 miles away, I'm suspect?
I know that can't work. Last summer, I was at my cabin in the Adirondacks, 120 miles from home. I cut a huge pile of firewood and gave it away to some old lady in that town. If I'd been checked, I'd looked guilty as hell with a 120-mile-away drivers license. And, that's a case where I was hestitant to bring that foreign wood back home both because of bugs - and also due to the distance with a heavy load.

 

[JustWood]

It is already law and the DEC , USDA, and ICC/DOT will be enforcing it vigorously. The campers and homeowners are who they are after more so than the big vendors. NY law states that even firewood for self use MUST have documentation (sort of a half azz bill of lading ) in the transport vehicle. I have been told that they WILL be enforcing this.
For about the last 2 years they have been having road blocks just over the boarder in PA enforcing PA's version of the law.I have been through them without question but only because the local cops know me and where my wood comes from.

As far as kiln drying firewood a vendor won't be able to sell firewood to the big box stores without drying first and getting a USDA stamp. One of my competitors lives on the main drag and has a big sign in front of his place and a mountain of wood visible from the road had a friendly visit from the USDA not to long ago outlining the new regulations. I really don't think they will bother legit vendors too much that deliver locally once they get to know who they are.

 

[ScottF]

See now- If Scott had said “Well, don’t I feel rather silly now. “- then I would have said “Don’t feel bad- it’s only because you’re stupid”.

So stick around a bit Pagey- you can be stupid one day too

AP Appreciate the compassion, Sometimes I feel so misunderstood. Its good to know that at least someone here on this site understands me. Its not easy thinking up with some of the hairbrain comments and ideas that I come up with and actually post. It takes many years of drinking and breathing in too much wood stove smoke.

 

[gerry100]

I can see the reasoning behind not wantin gto transport the bad bugs.

On the other hand there's always reason for concern when the Legislators in Albany stop partying and chasing interns and start to try and do things.

Seems like the most activist ones are from Queens or Brooklyn and only see trees out the car window.

 

[gerry100]

Besides' - how much firewood is ransported 50 miles. Kind of negates a good deal of the energy savings, doesn't it?

 

[jdemaris]

Besides' - how much firewood is ransported 50 miles. Kind of negates a good deal of the energy savings, doesn't it?

I took home over a dozen truck loads, 120 miles each trip over the past year or so. Not cause I needed the wood. More, because I had so much of it and hated to see it rot. I've got a cabin
120 miles from my home, in the Adirondacks. Had a large number of huge white birchs all die at once. They're all about as big as a white paper birch gets, and there was around 50 of them that I had to cut down before they fell down. I spend weeks cutting them up. First, I tried to get some locals to come get it - for free. Nope. No takers, even though firewood prices are very high up there. A few people asked me if I'd be willing to split it and delivery it. At that point, I said the heck with it, and on every trip home -we took a load. Didn't affect fuel mileage much at all. My diesel Ford got 16 MPG empty, and 15 MPG fully loaded with wood.
My Dodge Cummins diesl even a little better at 17 MPG loaded.

Last summer, I got sick of doing it. I did split some and gave it to an old widow lady near by. The rest is just piled, and is probably now rotting. If it becomes a high crime -even less incentive to truck it.

Last year, I almost bought a 20 acre firewood lot just across the Mac bridge in the Michigan UP. I have a small farm just below the bridge, about 60 miles away. My plan was for a firewood source for my place below. But, then found out it's illegal to bring any wood across the Mac bridge from one peninsula to the other.

 

[ScottF]

Jdemaris. I often cart firewood home from my summer camp for the same exact reason. It is very plentiful up there and more wood than we need at the cabin. Otherwise it would just rot and go to waste. The distance is 82 miles from my home. I just take a load with me each time I go there, which is quite often. Like you said it suprisingly does not affect my gas milage more than 1 mpg even when I am overloaded. There are many reasons people would truck wood more than 50 miles.