Auger Won't turn. Invincible Insert

[linus5703]

Good day everyone,

I was called in to look at an Invincible Insert pellet stove that will lite for a minute an then die... I am not use to work on these and following my tests I have a question for you helping experts.

I soon realize that the auger was not turning and this is why the fire dies due to shortage of
combustible. Now my question is: when set to "test", does the test mode supose to power up all
three motors regardless of any other switches or sensors (like bypassing all security) ?

I am asking because all three motor lights are turning ON in "test" mode but I have no voltage going to
the auger motor. Furthermore, when I manually feed the auger motor with AC, it does work OK.

On this particular board there are not much: one sensor and one limit switch connector. I have
read some auger troubleshooting post but I did not see anything about the test mode. I have
tested the limit switch for continuity and it was OK. I also run the stove with the sensor probe
unpluged from the board and I got the 3 flashing pulse error code and it goes away when replugged

So I beleive the circuit board is bad but I do not want to purshase a board just to find out it was a bad switch or else. All your inputs are greatly appreciated. THANK YOU !



PS: I might haven't posted in the right category... sorry if I did

 

[Delta-T]

sounds like a vaccum failure to me. the auger motor will be interrupted by the pressure switch if there is not enough negative pressure in the combustion chamer, or if there is a restriction in the exhaust venting. you can locate the vac sensor on the back, I beleive right hand side, looks like a UFO with a rubber hose on it. Could be some junk pluggin g up the rubber hose, or if the door gaskets have failed, you could get the same effect.

 

[Delta-T]

...in test mode, all 3 motors should run.

 

[linus5703]

...in test mode, all 3 motors should run.

Thank you Delta,

Are you saying that in "test" mode, all three motor should turn regardless of the state of the pressure switch?

1) If not, would you know a way to bypass this switch in order to double check this?

2) And if yes, then if the mototr doesn't turn in "test" mode would you conclude to a bad board too?
since it is ok when manually powered with external AC

Thanks a million...

 

[Delta-T]

if the pressure/vac switch does not engage, the auger will not feed, even in test mode. you can bypass the switch by disconnecting the 2 wires on the switch and connecting them together, essentially removing any association with the switch (please do not run the unit with the switch bypassed, it is a safty feature). I do not think you have any problem wih the board itself, probably just dirty venting, or bad gasket somewheres. You may want to put eyes on the combustion blower to make sure it is working and making proper suction.

 

[linus5703]

hummm.... interresting.... but I'm puzzle here because I only have two connectors to my board, one goes to the switch on the auger cam ( by the way, if this switch is not at the start position such as following a power failiure, would you say that the circuit should automatically return to its zero by itself or do I have to manually return it to its zero point?? ) and the other connector goes to a probe labelled ESP in the manual (that is the one that gave me the three pulses error code before when unplugged it. When check with a meter it was reading 546 and raised to 570 when slighly warmed with the bulb of my work lamp. This is why I assumed it was acting ok. But if you are telling me that this probe output should be continuity when cold, I beleive you have found my problem.

So just confirm that you want me to run the test mode while shorting my ESP probe connector

YHANK YOU!

 

[Delta-T]

no sir, not the esp, the vac sensor....it is connected the the auger motor via 1 wire, it is an interrupt for the power coming from the board to the motor. do not measure the esp, nothing there to diagnose. find the vac sensor, unplug the 2 (usually skinny black wires) that are connected to it, connect them together, put in test mode, and see if the auger then turns.

 

[Delta-T]

the other switch you see is called the "micro-switch" and sends feedback to the board upon every complete revolution of the auger...if it fails you will get the 2 blinks on the staus light on the control board.

 

[Don2222]

Hello

On some older stoves, if you do not put the feed rate up high during startup, the exhaust fan will not run fast enough to provide enough vacuum for proper startup. Put your hand near the exhaust to see if the air coming out is a strong enough.

 

[linus5703]

Are you shure that all invincible insert have a vac sensor? I do not see one nor does it show in the manual. (broken link removed to http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/2531/harmanstove.jpg) I might be blind or my stove is very old... Are you saying that the probe is "in line" with one of the wire that feeds the auger motor. Where is the probe's taking its pressure measurments from. I will be back there in a couple of days and I will look closer. Thanks again Delta

Hello Don. I will try that too. I know that it was set to 4 and that I could hear the blower changing speed up and down on its own I guess this was normal since I was testing the stove cold, without fire.

 

[smwilliamson]

Invincible insert is not going to have a vac sensor guys! Pre 1998 before it had to. If you AC the motor and it turns good., it works. If you "test" from the feed control and it doesn't, either the contacts to the terminal buss are dirty...clean'em, if it still doesn't work, I'd venture that your board is bad. New control board for that stove is the P61 board without auto ignite, all DIP switches off. Replace the ESP whenever you replace a board. You'll be able to get rid of the auger micro switch too, the new board will not require it.

 

[smwilliamson]

Hello

On some older stoves, if you do not put the feed rate up high during startup, the exhaust fan will not run fast enough to provide enough vacuum for proper startup. Put your hand near the exhaust to see if the air coming out is a strong enough.

that is not true of harman stoves

 

[Don2222]

Invincible insert is not going to have a vac sensor guys! Pre 1998 before it had to. If you AC the motor and it turns good., it works. If you "test" from the feed control and it doesn't, either the contacts to the terminal buss are dirty...clean'em, if it still doesn't work, I'd venture that your board is bad. New control board for that stove is the P61 board without auto ignite, all DIP switches off. Replace the ESP whenever you replace a board. You'll be able to get rid of the auger micro switch too, the new board will not require it.

Good Info Scott!

Is it possible to put in the P61a circuit board, Knob Panel, Ignitor and drill a hole in the burn pot for ignitor air for a nice AUTO lite stove improvement?

 

[Don2222]

that is not true of harman stoves

Thanks for the info.

When I say older stoves, that does not include manual knob control stoves and ancient stoves that do not have the latest safety switches.

However those stoves are out there and still running!

 

[Delta-T]

I appologize, I hadn't even considered that the unit would predate the vac sensor....Scott may be correct then, bad connection, possible bad board.

 

[linus5703]

So much for the false joy of the VAC...No greef thre, thank for the idea anyway... The good news is that I'm not crazy... ... the bad is that the first thing I checked was the contacts and the three nice triac that where stearing right at me (one for each motor #MAC228) but no such luck... they all tested good... same for the three opto-cupplers. So unless one triac is failing under load only and still reading ok in static testing, it is looking towards something else is bad either in that board. I'll give a bether look at the wiring inside the stove too.

I could try to go to the component level but I would need the diagram for that board #1-00-06142 if anybody as it or may be have a used board that work for sale?

Mine is labellled B1378AA sn. 07264B0695 THANK YOU ALL !!