Another OAK question!

[Pallet Pete]

If I install an oak kit would that keep the air from drying out? I have had a sore throat for 3 days and am starting to think it is due to the new stove and its air intake. I was planning on one already but I am curious still.

Thanks
Pete

 

[Dune]

No. Heat dry the air, any heat.

 

[69911e]

Yes, OAK will help some as less humid air will go up your chimney. For proper air health, any heating system in a cold climate should include a humidifier/water pot on stove . Makes no difference wood, furnace, boiler ect.

 

[Dune]

Yes, OAK will help some as less humid air will go up your chimney.

What?

 

[LLigetfa]

Yes, using dry outside air means that much humidified indoor air is not consumed so it will help. I don't understand the naysayers.

Some folk just don't understand the "relative" part of relative humidity. Heat does NOT dry the air. Cold dries the air. The less cold air you draw into the house the less dry it will be.

 

[Dune]

Yes, using dry outside air means that much humidified indoor air is not consumed so it will help. I don't understand the naysayers.

Some folk just don't understand the "relative" part of relative humidity. Heat does NOT dry the air. Cold dries the air. The less cold air you draw into the house the less dry it will be.

What makes the inside air (what you are worried about going up the chimney) humid?

 

[rwhite]

Warm air can hold more water vapor than cold air. Because heat rises it is replaced by colder drier air if available. Relative humidity does not tell you the water content of the air. It tells you the amount of vapor in the air compared to it's potential. So a volume of cold air may have a higher relative humidity but lower vapor content because it does not have the potential to hold more vapor. So rather than try and achieve a relative humidity target based on fluctuating temps it is best to base what you want your RH to be based on the average temp you want to maintain in the house. As for creation of humidity in the house there are many things, boiling water, cooking, taking a shower all raise the RH inside. If you are using that air for combustion you are losing RH so it would make sense that using outside air would leave the humidity in the home to a greater extent.

 

[LLigetfa]

What makes the inside air (what you are worried about going up the chimney) humid?

Ummm... water makes it humid. Is this a trick question?

 

[HotCoals]

Great to see someone clarify R/H.
I never did understand it much but knew it was important to a comfortable house.

 

[LLigetfa]

I have a fairly airtight house designed around R2000 building practices so the number of air changes is dependent on consuming appliances such as my water heater, clothes dryer, and HRV. The HRV is a code requirement to have, but how one chooses to run it is theirs. The OAK on my woodstove is also a code requirement. The HRV is my primary source of makeup air for the water heater and clothes dryer regardless of whether or not the HRV is turned on. When running, the HRV also removes air from the home and with it humid air. I normally run the HRV at the lowest speed and have crank timers to run it on high speed when needed to remove cooking odours.

In Winter I adjust the humidistat according to outside mean temperature, increasing the humidity when it is not so cold out and reducing it when it is bitterly cold so as to minimize the condensation and frost on the windows. Higher humidity, to a reasonable level means more comfort but humidity in excess of 50% supports dust mites so I try to keep it around 40%. I lower it to 25% when it gets really cold. Also, when it gets really cold, I don't let the overnight temperature inside the house fall as much.

 

[HotCoals]

I have a fairly airtight house designed around R2000 building practices so the number of air changes is dependent on consuming appliances such as my water heater, clothes dryer, and HRV. The HRV is a code requirement to have, but how one chooses to run it is theirs. The OAK on my woodstove is also a code requirement. The HRV is my primary source of makeup air for the water heater and clothes dryer regardless of whether or not the HRV is turned on. When running, the HRV also removes air from the home and with it humid air. I normally run the HRV at the lowest speed and have crank timers to run it on high speed when needed to remove cooking odours.

In Winter I adjust the humidistat according to outside mean temperature, increasing the humidity when it is not so cold out and reducing it when it is bitterly cold so as to minimize the condensation and frost on the windows. Higher humidity, to a reasonable level means more comfort but humidity in excess of 50% supports dust mites so I try to keep it around 40%. I lower it to 25% when it gets really cold. Also, when it gets really cold, I don't let the overnight temperature inside the house fall as much.

I was following you easy enough till this statement.
Sure it maybe cold outside but to me 25% R/H seems low inside where it is warmer.
Right now I have 32% R/H..72 inside and around 38 outside.
No static electricity present but still seems just a little dry.
I'm finding out from you and google that it is somewhat of a complex deal...and then there is dew points.

 

[LLigetfa]

The lower humidity is due to the lower R value of the windows which forms frost and condensation on them.

Here is a good article.
http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/residential/personal/15161

 

[HotCoals]

Well I never get frost and only some condensation in the kitchen if cooking a lot.
But I'm starting to understand..the low humidity is in the cold air outside..coming in.

 

[billb3]

If I install an oak kit would that keep the air from drying out? I have had a sore throat for 3 days and am starting to think it is due to the new stove and its air intake. I was planning on one already but I am curious still.

Thanks
Pete

It's not going to miraculously stop cold symptoms .


There's been a nasty cold going around here one of the first symptoms being several days of a hoarse ( not necssarily sore) throat.

 

[Pallet Pete]

I am not after miracles just better humidity control I am prone to sore throats when the air is to dry. This is due to having untreated pneumonia when I was young it caused a lot of lung damage. Thanks for the R/H info I have never really understood it all that well so due to this thread we bought a humidity gauge for the house.

Thanks guys
Pete

 

[LLigetfa]

In the overall scheme of things, the amount of air that goes through the stove is small relative to what leaks out throuugh cracks or gets sucked out by appliances or exhaust fans. I don't claim that an OAK will negate the need for a humidifier. Still, it all adds up and so why burn the air you heated and humidified when the stove is just as happy to use the dry outside air?

 

[Backwoods Savage]

And the humidity is another reason my wife likes to dry the laundry using the wood stove. It is amazing what more humidity in the house will do. Temperatures do not need to be so high to be comfortable for sure. Just don't want too much humidity less, as LLigetfa states, you get frosted glass.

 

[Highbeam]

LLigetfa is right, an OAK will help keep humidity in the house, keep the RH up. Just another benefit of the OAK and goes to show you that without an OAK you would be exhausting the humid inside air and also exhausting the heat. So not only are you wasting energy heating the outdoor air that you sucked in but also having to humidify it.

I was told to keep the RH below 50% for the sake of dust mite control. Turns out I am allergic to them (their biproducts) along with a huge portion of the population. We routinely bottom out the gauge at 16% even with an OAK. I make every effort to dry the air and my wood floors and door jambs tell me about it.

 

[oldspark]

LLigetfa is right, an OAK will help keep humidity in the house, keep the RH up. Just another benefit of the OAK and goes to show you that without an OAK you would be exhausting the humid inside air and also exhausting the heat. So not only are you wasting energy heating the outdoor air that you sucked in but also having to humidify it.

I was told to keep the RH below 50% for the sake of dust mite control. Turns out I am allergic to them (their biproducts) along with a huge portion of the population. We routinely bottom out the gauge at 16% even with an OAK. I make every effort to dry the air and my wood floors and door jambs tell me about it.

Wow 16% and I thought my 25% was bad.

 

[Highbeam]

LLigetfa is right, an OAK will help keep humidity in the house, keep the RH up. Just another benefit of the OAK and goes to show you that without an OAK you would be exhausting the humid inside air and also exhausting the heat. So not only are you wasting energy heating the outdoor air that you sucked in but also having to humidify it.

I was told to keep the RH below 50% for the sake of dust mite control. Turns out I am allergic to them (their biproducts) along with a huge portion of the population. We routinely bottom out the gauge at 16% even with an OAK. I make every effort to dry the air and my wood floors and door jambs tell me about it.

Wow 16% and I thought my 25% was bad.

We have a pretty wet environment, spending 9 months of the year in darkness, rain, and 35-45 degree temps means that our homes are surrounded by mud from September to June. Only when we get the perfect storm of cold dry air blowing down from AK can I get the RH to 16%. I employ every possible method to keep my home as dry as possible including power vents in bathrooms and kitchen.

I drove to work this morning at 7:30 in the rain, 41 degrees, and dark. It will be the same when I go home. They call us mossbacks for a reason.

 

[Pallet Pete]

Well our humidity without the stove running was 43% with the stove running was 18% ! That is amazing to me what a difference we are adding the outside air kit this weekend hopefully if I can get the sickness out of me. Thanks for all the responses they help a great deal with making me into a moister nodal :lol:

You guys rock
Pete

 

[LLigetfa]

Well our humidity without the stove running was 43% with the stove running was 18% !

I don't know over what time frame those two extremes were measured and over what temperature range. Because RH is relative to the temp, if you heat the house hotter with wood than with the furnace, that will account for some of the difference. If the furnace has a humidifier, that too will account for some of the difference.

The net difference that the OAK can mitigate is a reduction in humidity brought about by fewer air changes in the home. The OAK will only reduce the number of air changes. It will not add humidity, it will only slow down the loss of humidity. The average stove consumes between 10 and 25 CFM of air. A well sealed home may exchange somewhere around 75 CFM, so the stove might only increase that by around 25%.

If you heat the house much warmer with wood than you did with the furnace, you won't see a RH of 43%. That's the relative side of the equation. You still need to provide a source of humidification to replace what your furnace humidifer produced. You also need to provide additional humidification for the relative temperature increase.

 

[billb3]

Dry air usually affects my nasal passages.
If it gets so dry out that it also gets dry inside the house I have a humidifier to use.

 

[Pallet Pete]

I don't use a humidifier with the furnace because it isn't usually needed but I do with the wood stove because my wife & my lungs dry out when it is going.

The temps have hung around 30 - 40F the last couple of days

Test was 12/27-12/28 6pm to 6pm furnace avg humidity was 43%
Test was 12/28-12/29 6pm to 6pm wood avg humidity was 18%

Outside temps where almost even both tests
12/27 night was 20F
12/28 day was 25F
12/28 night was 29F
12/29 day was 31F

This is not the real feel and it hopefully correct this time.

Please tell me if I missed anything I did the test as I would normally would use the stove or furnace because I wanted it to be accurate. I am not sure how many days we are gonna have even temps now it is getting colder finally and its supposed to rain on and off last I saw.

Thanks
Pete

 

[Pallet Pete]

I should also add our furnace is a piece of crap and can only get the house to 60 if we are luck on a 20f day so that could be a factor as well! Old coal ducts and very inefficient furnace through clay chimney with very old liner so it remains a backup to the wood stove. We just got it fixed AGAIN so it can be a backup if it doesn't die again lol. It died immediately after our old stove haha ok enough useless info!

Thanks
Pete