Advice on last night's runaway portal to hell raging inferno

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elevensies

New Member
Nov 26, 2023
21
Missouri
We got our new GM60 up and running on Saturday, just in time for the cold snap. We’ve been taking it slow and learning to build a good fire, and mostly burning mimosa that’s at 14-17% moisture but kind of junk as it’s already breaking down and burning quickly. Our main concern with this stove was that we might have a hard time getting a good draft, but even with a 13’ chimney it was probably too strong. We figured this was partially due to the sub-zero temps outside and were looking forward to yesterday’s rise to the mid-30’s so we could compare.

I had the stove offline during the day so I could check out the chimney (it's clean!) and install a flue thermometer. I started a fire late afternoon, same as I had been doing, ending up with three splits of mimosa lasting about three hours. The draft was still great, with the smoke rolling up past the baffle and out the flue on a cold start with the door cracked. With a bed of good coals pushed to the front of the stove and a STT of 300, I added a big split of what we think is oak, a split of holly, and a piece of mimosa on top. We haven’t yet built enough trust with this thing to pack the box full, but we were hoping for a better overnight with the oak.

In a matter of minutes, I had a raging inferno. I’m guessing it was five minutes. I had engaged the cat and cut the air down a little at a time, but meanwhile the fire kept growing, so I quickly cut it to almost closed. Within ten minutes, the air control was completely closed, I had rolling orange flames filling the box, purple and orange secondaries exploding against the glass and rolling all directions back into the firebox, and bright orange rocket blasts coming from the holes in the riser. STT was 630 within maybe 15 minutes. I was too panicked to note the flue and cat temps, but I think they were both near the middle of the normal range. The secondaries were so out of control that it seemed that they were trying to blast out of the fire box, like the primary and secondary flames were competing for space because there wasn’t enough rom in there to contain it all. All told, it was probably 30 minutes of rage (stove) and panic (me).

We finally decided to “dump the gas” by opening the bypass and opening up the air control a bit. It worked. After that we were able to get it under control, but the flames were bigger than I would like and the stove hotter. I barely had the air control open and had big orange flames along with big billowing secondaries, but if I cut the air completely, every flame would completely die out in a matter of seconds. This doesn't seem normal.

I started a fire this morning and had no trouble, likely because I went back to three splits of junk mimosa, but it still only lasts three hours until the coals at dying and temp is back to around 275-300. I cut some kindling out of the oak from last night’s fire and threw it on to see what would happen, and the smoke coming from it was black. Thankfully, I had only put in kindling and not the full logs, so I let it burn out but the smoke stayed black to the end. Any advice on what could be causing the black smoke? Contaminants seem unlikely as this would have been a tree that my husband cut down himself and split. I realized I had never tested moisture on the “oak” (?) or the holly, so I did, and got 8% and 7%.

So, obviously I’m not going to burn the 8% maybe oak, with black smoke coming out of it, or the 7% holly. Obviously I’m going to measure my draft very soon so I can figure out how much that’s contributing. But in the meantime, what else do I need to do differently so I can get a burn longer than three hours without burning my house down? I feel like the answer is going to be that I need to load the fire box with more splits so there's less air, and install the damper I bought, but having only been burning for six days, I'm still learning what's normal and would love to hear your thoughts... I was already nervous about filling the box and last night did not help.
 
During very cold events, the draft is quite strong. During the cold snap we had strong, steady wind too. Our wood is quite dry this year. I had to choke our stove all the way down on full reloads. Even then the flue temp was a challenge to keep under 700º. If I didn't stay on top of it, it would go higher. This meant shutting off the stove damper and closing down the air as quickly and aggressively as possible. With some loads I'd overshoot and the flue temp would plummet down to 450º. Today, with 35º outside, the stove is a pussycat to run.

7-8% moisture content is hard to achieve. That is the MC of finishing wood used for trim. Our very dry wood is around 14-15%. How is the MC being checked?
 
We had strong winds here as well, 40mph gusts! But the stove still ran fine, I didn't have the rager until last night when temps had gone up to mid-30's and we had barely a breeze.
I'm checking MC with a moisture meter, on a fresh cut. This wood has been sitting out for at least three years, might be four, and they're not large pieces. The big piece I put in last night was probably higher, but in my eagerness to get warm I forgot to check it.
 
begreen, does the behavior of the fire sound within the range of normal, and not something I should worry so much about? It's so difficult to get a good sense of what a fire is supposed to look like in a cat stove.
 
I know nothing about your stove. STT of 275-300 is very low, 650 is controllable hot on my stove. Flue and cat temps in the middle of their range sounds normal, what temps are the middle of their range? I don't have a moisture meter but it sounds like yours isn't correct.
 
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Those reading are almost impossible to get unless you are in the high desert. Is the meter digital?
I feel like we all have those moments the stove really takes off, then the secondary air starts screaming when you try to reduce the air. Nothing sounds crazy here to me. If everything is installed to spec, there isn’t anything to worry about in this situation.
 
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I get it about the meter readings, but I promise you that's what I'm getting. It is digital. I'm a woodworker and have a bunch of project wood around, so I just tested some of that and some wood trim that I haven't installed yet, all is reading around 5-6%. I've never had issues with my meter. The mimosa and other woods are all testing between 12% and 17%.
I've watched a bunch of videos of people getting their fires going, and when it's really raging and getting going, that's what this fire looked like after we calmed it down. I wish I had been able to take a video. Just to be clear webby, you're saying it's normal for the fire to continue to grow larger and larger for 20 minutes after the air control is completely shut down? I appreciate your reply, it is calming my nerves.
 
Does your air control work properly? Have you checked all of the gaskets? If you have a small fire can you shut the air and watch the fire die down then open it and see it take off again?
 
Yes, on every other fire the air control will cause the fire to die down or start back up based on how far I open it. Even on this fire, once we got it under control, shutting down the air control extinguished the flames.
 
That sounds about normal to me for a hot reload. Reloading on to a good pile of coals will get the new wood lit really fast into a raging inferno. Also since the stove isnt cold, the draft is already really strong and the stove itself is heating up the wood. Then when you close everything down that off gassing is still happening but it turns into fast rolling secondaries off the logs and the "jets" are from the added secondary air. My guess is if you had left it alone for another 30 min it would have all calmed down. Isn't 630 within the normal range for a stovetop?

Next time you do a hot reload close the air down a little sooner.

With my stove once you let the fire heat up to "critical mass" it will continue getting hotter with the air shut down until it reaches cruising conditions. Shut down too early on a cold start and it will either take a really long time to heat up or slowly die. On a hot reload it will heat up pretty darn quick (relatively) and get even hotter than a normal cold start fire.

I only get black smoke from fatwood kindling but I thought that only conifers make fatwood.
 
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begreen, does the behavior of the fire sound within the range of normal, and not something I should worry so much about? It's so difficult to get a good sense of what a fire is supposed to look like in a cat stove.
I have been burning for so many years that what would appear to be a rager to a new burner might be not so much so to me. It's hard to say because this is subjective. Everything you did was fine although thicker splits and closing down the air sooner should help tame the beast.
 
Our worry was that if we left it alone for another 30 minutes it would have kept getting hotter and even more violent. The temp at 630 was definitely within normal, but it got there so much faster than on any hot reload that I'd done before. The 630 was earlier in the whole experience, I have no idea what the temp was at the end, but certainly hotter. I will try closing down the air sooner. In the beginning I was doing it a bit too early, so still looking for that balance.
Thank you all for making me feel silly for worrying. I'm off to try it again. But I'm still not burning the low moisture wood with the black smoke. Maybe I'll try to sell it since we seem to have achieved an unachievable moisture level ;)
 
There's nothing silly about being concerned over the intensity of a fire in your house. It's a learning curve for anyone, but especially so for a new burner. Stick with the thicker splits for reloads on hot coals.
 
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You're not wrong to worry. Once I did a hot reload and shut it down like normal. About 30 min later i hear a bunch of metallic popping from the stove like it was heating up quickly. No flames in the fire box so the cat must have been going crazy. I watched the stovetop temps and flue temp climb to the hottest ive seen them, about 100 degrees under redline. They leveled off and then started to slowly decline. Man that sucker was putting out heat.

The next time something similar happened i cracked the air control which fired up the secondaries, then shut the air back down. The secondaries stayed on and seemed to keep the stove top and flue temps lower since the energy was being released in the fire box instead of directly onto the stovetop.
 
Thank you begreen, I will do that. Thicker splits and shut the air down early.
barnacle, that sounds unnerving! Good thinking on opening up the air. Hopefully my confidence will biuld to that level, where I can just wait things out when they get scary, and then come up with a solution for next time.
 
As I said I'm not familiar with your stove. On my stove hot reload I have the damper open so the cat is bypassed and the air is wide open. I reload on the hot coals and the new wood will take off. If the cat was hot and the blaze is strong I'll close the damper and the cat temps will rise to 1,000 to 1,100 pretty quick and then I cut the air back.
 
If I put a few pieces of scrap 7% wood that Im working with in my stove, it will flame a good bit. If I lower the air control, I can slow the flames down a bit but it's basically like throwing cardboard inside. There's not much you can do at that point but ride it out.
 
Ok, so let me start off with a question. Who all besides me expected this thread to be about a Vermont castings of some sort?

I’ll second what the others have said. It sounds like that was probably not out of the ordinary for the reload. If I rake coals to the front and put a nice dry split on it there will be flames coming to the top of the stove within 30 seconds.

If you want to test the theory do a hot reload with the mimosa and a big bed of coals raked to the front.
 
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I think many on here have had a load take off and get too hot. I had it happen for the first time this year with the way I loaded it during a reload. It was a raging fireball with STT of 750 and climbing. Air was shut down. When I saw it was going to keep going I opened the window next to the stove and opened the door to let cool air rush up the flue. Did this a few times and it finally calmed down. I was told that I could have road it out and that my stove and chimney system can handle this high temp with ease. Lesson learned.
 
Ok, so let me start off with a question. Who all besides me expected this thread to be about a Vermont castings of some sort?

I’ll second what the others have said. It sounds like that was probably not out of the ordinary for the reload. If I rake coals to the front and put a nice dry split on it there will be flames coming to the top of the stove within 30 seconds.

If you want to test the theory do a hot reload with the mimosa and a big bed of coals raked to the front.
lol actually I did.
There's more than a few times that I left the damper open for too long and paid for it.
My solution now is to use bigger splits. If I make a mistake, eh, no biggy.
 
Going through the same situation on my new stove. Suspecting the door gasket isn’t sealing properly but I don’t know. Sucks watching the inferno and not being able to choke it down with the air control.

 
Thanks to all for sharing your experiences, it's really helpful! By the time we got totally freaked and opened up the bypass to try to blow everything out the flue, we had billowing orange primary flames completely covering the glass so that the logs weren't even visible. I wish I had stopped to take temps at that point, but I was mostly just trying not to die. It's good to hear so many stories of things getting a little out of control and not ending in disaster.

If you want to test the theory do a hot reload with the mimosa and a big bed of coals raked to the front.
I had actually already done exactly that multiple times prior to the reload from hell, so I think the next step us to try it with a totally different species and see what happens.

As I said I'm not familiar with your stove. On my stove hot reload I have the damper open so the cat is bypassed and the air is wide open. I reload on the hot coals and the new wood will take off. If the cat was hot and the blaze is strong I'll close the damper and the cat temps will rise to 1,000 to 1,100 pretty quick and then I cut the air back.
Does your cat thermometer have actual temps on it? I have the one from Hearthstone that came with my stove, just a large gray area that says "Catalyst Active" to stay in, but no actual temps listed. I'd love one that gave me an actual reading.
 
I have a thermocouple probe in the cat chamber hooked to an Auber AT100 digital meter so it's pretty accurate. Blowing a high temp load out the flue is more dangerous than a fire in the box running through the cat. My cat has gotten to 1600 and the stove and flue don't get dangerously hot. Run my stove wide open with the cat bypassed and the flames go right up the flue. If you have any buildup it can light off.
 
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Thanks to all for sharing your experiences, it's really helpful! By the time we got totally freaked and opened up the bypass to try to blow everything out the flue, we had billowing orange primary flames completely covering the glass so that the logs weren't even visible. I wish I had stopped to take temps at that point, but I was mostly just trying not to die. It's good to hear so many stories of things getting a little out of control and not ending in disaster.


I had actually already done exactly that multiple times prior to the reload from hell, so I think the next step us to try it with a totally different species and see what happens.


Does your cat thermometer have actual temps on it? I have the one from Hearthstone that came with my stove, just a large gray area that says "Catalyst Active" to stay in, but no actual temps listed. I'd love one that gave me an actual reading.
When you see all that secondary fire happening, it means it’s a fuel rich environment. Gases and smoke are being consumed, that’s not a sign of an overfiring or leaking stove. It’s designed to pump fresh, hot air into the path of the smoke. So when you try to choke it down all a sudden, a bigger fire is the result for a time.
 
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Things Ive seen

I dont have a damper in my flue. This is my 3rd winter with the gm80. Usually the highest STT is in front of the chimney connection unless the flame is stronger on one side.

If your coals are pretty hot you really need to close the air down as quickly as possible while reading the fire, especially on cold days. I know it looks nutts in the fire box but if your STT below 700 you should be fine. I just think you didn’t tame the beast early enough. Once I get above 600 pushing the air all the way in and then just the lightest bit open it will still sometimes look like its going crazy but as long as your top temps are below 700 I think youre good. Even if it goes a tad over I dont think its bad.

I’ve heard that STT should not go above 600. I dont think thats possible unless with light loading and also catching your fire as early as possible. On these cold days my goal is to have it stable between 6 and 700. Highest Ive seen is 680 this year with a full firebox.
 
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