I will try a few large splits of Ash tonight with a few medium size ones as well. Hopefully you can make out the size in the pictures. 20-22" in length. The door is 14x14.
Singed Eyebrows said:I have no doubt the WG will burn those, you might lose the coal bed though. Randy
If you lose the coal bed you don't have a gasification boiler anymore. Emissions go up & efficiency goes down. After I posted I thought about the person burning green oak in his WG & he had a nice deep red coal bed, So maybe with the WG there are no worries. My Atmos can lose the coal bed easily, RandyGasifier said:Singed Eyebrows said:I have no doubt the WG will burn those, you might lose the coal bed though. Randy
I think you may right. I suppose I could lose gassification, then maybe get it back. I don't know. So when I lose gassification is it just like a really hot wood stove burning really fast? I have done this and not had any problem heating the house when it was pretty cold out. So if I lose gassification, I would just lose some efficiency?
Just curious about what you said, Randy. When I burn a big load in my EB, the splits just keep dropping down in the firebox, maintaining a good coal bed. Eventually, when there's no wood left in the middle of the firebox, the coal bed will be gone over the nozzle, but some charcoal will still remain in the bed of the firebox (outside of nozzle range). I would expect all gasers to be similar in operation, but it sounds like you are referring to something other than this. If so, is it caused by some kind of bridging, or does something else happen with your boiler?Singed Eyebrows said:...... My Atmos can lose the coal bed easily, Randy
A friend of mine has owned an Eshland Woodgun for around 25 years (must have been one of the first off the line). He's not big on seasoning - usually cuts late Summer and Fall. And, he loads it full with splits that are not in any way small. And, to make this even more amazing, he keeps his house very cool (mid 60). That combination would make my EB get so top-heavy with creosote, it would probably topple over onto it's side. But it's worked for him for many more years than any of the rest of us, so it must be true that the Woodgun (the original Eshland anyway) is a different animal.ihookem said:A woodgun dealer by me said bigger logs are better cause little logs over gassify. Never saw it burn but if he says it must be true. My EKO likes kindleing more than anything.
WWFW, What I was wondering was if the large splits Gasifier was using would burn properly to maintain a good coal bed. If they burn too slow the coal bed can get used up with gaps over the nozzle. A decent burn depends on the gasses being heated up to a high temp by being pulled or pushed through a coal bed & if they aren't you get a smoking gasser or at least more polution. I assume you rake the coals over the nozzle when you reload. It sounds like your EB is burning great, Randywillworkforwood said:Just curious about what you said, Randy. When I burn a big load in my EB, the splits just keep dropping down in the firebox, maintaining a good coal bed. Eventually, when there's no wood left in the middle of the firebox, the coal bed will be gone over the nozzle, but some charcoal will still remain in the bed of the firebox (outside of nozzle range). I would expect all gasers to be similar in operation, but it sounds like you are referring to something other than this. If so, is it caused by some kind of bridging, or does something else happen with your boiler?Singed Eyebrows said:...... My Atmos can lose the coal bed easily, Randy
Ah yes, you were referring to split size - an interesting subject. Yes, I rake the bed back over the nozzle, as I'm sure most folks do, and I'm very pleased how the EB runs (even without storage). But I only use small splits - the famous playing card size split, and this avoids ever having a coal bed problem (except of course when I goof-up on the load amount). I cut lots of red oak, and have found that that stuff just simply does not get to 20% in 2 years (even with full sun and wind), unless I split small. I believe split size is a big factor in how our gasers run - maybe when Jebatty has no more fun things to do, he can run some split size experiments.Singed Eyebrows said:WWFW, What I was wondering was if the large splits Gasifier was using would burn properly to maintain a good coal bed. If they burn too slow the coal bed can get used up with gaps over the nozzle. A decent burn depends on the gasses being heated up to a high temp by being pulled or pushed through a coal bed & if they aren't you get a smoking gasser or at least more polution. I assume you rake the coals over the nozzle when you reload. It sounds like your EB is burning great, Randywillworkforwood said:Just curious about what you said, Randy. When I burn a big load in my EB, the splits just keep dropping down in the firebox, maintaining a good coal bed. Eventually, when there's no wood left in the middle of the firebox, the coal bed will be gone over the nozzle, but some charcoal will still remain in the bed of the firebox (outside of nozzle range). I would expect all gasers to be similar in operation, but it sounds like you are referring to something other than this. If so, is it caused by some kind of bridging, or does something else happen with your boiler?Singed Eyebrows said:...... My Atmos can lose the coal bed easily, Randy
I wish I could run a load of smaller splits, if I do though the boiler fan just shuts down at 90C, so there is no point in it. The Laddomat 21G as I've carped about just doesn't have enough pump to keep the fan from shutting off, Randywillworkforwood said:Ah yes, you were referring to split size - an interesting subject. Yes, I rake the bed back over the nozzle, as I'm sure most folks do, and I'm very pleased how the EB runs (even without storage). But I only use small splits - the famous playing card size split, and this avoids ever having a coal bed problem (except of course when I goof-up on the load amount). I cut lots of red oak, and have found that that stuff just simply does not get to 20% in 2 years (even with full sun and wind), unless I split small. I believe split size is a big factor in how our gasers run - maybe when Jebatty has no more fun things to do, he can run some split size experiments.Singed Eyebrows said:WWFW, What I was wondering was if the large splits Gasifier was using would burn properly to maintain a good coal bed. If they burn too slow the coal bed can get used up with gaps over the nozzle. A decent burn depends on the gasses being heated up to a high temp by being pulled or pushed through a coal bed & if they aren't you get a smoking gasser or at least more polution. I assume you rake the coals over the nozzle when you reload. It sounds like your EB is burning great, Randywillworkforwood said:Just curious about what you said, Randy. When I burn a big load in my EB, the splits just keep dropping down in the firebox, maintaining a good coal bed. Eventually, when there's no wood left in the middle of the firebox, the coal bed will be gone over the nozzle, but some charcoal will still remain in the bed of the firebox (outside of nozzle range). I would expect all gasers to be similar in operation, but it sounds like you are referring to something other than this. If so, is it caused by some kind of bridging, or does something else happen with your boiler?Singed Eyebrows said:...... My Atmos can lose the coal bed easily, Randy
That's unfortunate because I'm sure you (and your storage) would appreciate running the boiler full bore. No other reasonable way to move more water - like piping another small pump in series with the Laddomat pump?Singed Eyebrows said:I wish I could run a load of smaller splits, if I do though the boiler fan just shuts down at 90C, so there is no point in it. The Laddomat 21G as I've carped about just doesn't have enough pump to keep the fan from shutting off, Randy
Thats what I am gathering the parts for now. I have a 1/6 hp circulator & a J thermocouple controller. I just need to buy a thermocouple & I should be set. One worry is pushing water into the tank too fast & delayering it, hopefully it will work, Randywillworkforwood said:That's unfortunate because I'm sure you (and your storage) would appreciate running the boiler full bore. No other reasonable way to move more water - like piping another small pump in series with the Laddomat pump?Singed Eyebrows said:I wish I could run a load of smaller splits, if I do though the boiler fan just shuts down at 90C, so there is no point in it. The Laddomat 21G as I've carped about just doesn't have enough pump to keep the fan from shutting off, Randy
martyinmi said:Gasifier,
Your enthusiasm is very evident in your posts, and it is contagious! Your Wood Gun combustion chamber is similar to what I have. I think I'll give some larger pieces a try tonight.
I went and watched a Wood Gun 150(?) in operation last year. Very impressive machine. The owner spent over an hour with me explaining all the ins and outs. I had my boiler list down to three manufacturers, and Wood Gun was one of them.
I wish I could run a load of smaller splits, if I do though the boiler fan just shuts down at 90C, so there is no point in it. The Laddomat 21G as I’ve carped about just doesn’t have enough pump to keep the fan from shutting off, Randy
Jim, I was going to try the inline/series setup first. The pump I have is large enough to not cause much of an inlet restriction when off. My tank is less than 2' from the boiler with 1 1/2" steel pipe. Even if I loaded 1/4 loads I would outrun the Lado as it just doesn't move the water. I understand what you mean by being careful when topping off & I do this as you say by small loads of small splits. I need about 2 degree differential on my controller & hopefully a J thermocouple (Partlow) controller can provide this. I want to keep the boiler hot as possible. If my setup doesn't work I will probably need to get the next size up Lado, the 21-60. Thanks Jim, Randyjebatty said:I wish I could run a load of smaller splits, if I do though the boiler fan just shuts down at 90C, so there is no point in it. The Laddomat 21G as I’ve carped about just doesn’t have enough pump to keep the fan from shutting off, Randy
IMO, there is a relatively easy and inexpensive fix to this by simply installing a parallel circulator with the Laddomat and bypassing it with an aquastat to turn it "on" when system return water is greater than - you pick the temp - at least 160F, with perhaps a 5F differential. That will give you the boost in btu transfer when needed, and it will be "off" when not needed.
You can use the Laddomat spec'd maximum flow rate as a guide in determining how many more gpm you need to move your desired btu output at the required delta-T, and then size your parallel circ accordingly, or maybe somewhat generously. Keep in mind though that at the high end, with return 180F+ and still high btu output, you will always have increasing difficulty in moving boiler output, even with a parallel circ, and you still will need storage capacity to put it. You can't stuff more btu's into storage than you have capacity available.
Good practice is to load your burns so that the wood load is rapidly burning down as storage is topping off; that means btu output is rapidly falling as the ability to move btu's decreases and space available for btu's is just about full.
The Laddomat does not leave much room for "error" in loading for a burn, and therefore I think I agree that the Laddomat is light on the circulator side, but also from my experience I'm pretty confident that with more careful loading for burns along the lines just mentioned most, if not all, Laddomat issues would disappear.
Also, I would guess that the Laddomat design intent is that storage be adjacent to the boiler with properly sized plumbing so that boiler-storage pump head is very small, therefore allowing the Laddomat circ to move its spec'd maximum flow rate.
Example: if spec'd maximum flow rate is 11 gpm, and actual flow rate is 11 gpm based on boiler-storage pump head, then at delta-T = 30F or more (output up to 190F and return not more than 160F), the Laddomat will move 165,000 btuh or more; at delta-T = 20F, 110,000 btuh; at delta-T= 10F, 55,000 btuh; etc.
Jim, What would a parallel circuit look like. Could you draw a diagram? It would seem that a second pump could flow water the wrong way, away from the boiler. How is the circulator properly sized? I have proportioning controllers that maybe sometime in the future I can understand how I can hook one in to top up the tank, Randyjebatty said:Looks like you're doing and trying to do what will make it work. If you upsize the Laddomat, unless your dealer will replace at a very good price, make sure it too will meet your need. I look at the Laddomat in part as an enhanced Termovar or Danfoss, although it often is matched with fairly sophisticated boiler controls so that the boiler will slow down as the storage temp rises to allow a slower burn and storage top off without idling. If it was me, I still would lean towards a parallel circ, properly sized, because I would be pretty confident that would work an the price would be right. Hope you find the solution you are seeking.
martyinmi said:Gasifier, I'm just heating my house and DHW. My house is around 1800 sq. ft. and heats like a corn crib. My wife likes it warm, so the thermostat is usually set at 73* or 74*. I also keep my basement at around 65* or so(another 900 sq.ft.). I just installed this one in October. Before it, I had an Empyre Pro Series 100. The Empyre is a great little boiler, but the primary combustion chamber is a bit on the small side for my application. With 6 inches of coals in the bottom, I had less than 4 cu. ft. of space left for fuel. I burn almost all White Ash, as almost all of them in this area are either dying or dead. My wood is anywhere between 15% and 30%. I am very impressed with the function and efficiency of the 250. Their refractories store so much heat that it can idle for 3-4 hours and still gasify almost instantly when heat is called for. I am almost 50, and I have burned wood every year of my adult life, plus all the while growing up. I started out with an Ashley stove, then a Consolidated Dutchwest Federal Airtight stove, followed by a TSC wood furnace. Five years ago I built a couple of conventional OWB's and started heating with one of them. Last year, I bought the Empyre(I got a great deal on it,then sold it for what I paid for it), and now the P&M. Marty
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