90s Napoleon 1100 - Too "Hungry?" Time for New Stove?

[ctwoodstove]

Hi all,

I have been using an early 90s Napoleon 1100 (1.7 cu ft. firebox / 55,000 BTU/hr) for the last 5 years. I bought it from someone off Craigslist and installed it in the basement of our 2-story home. I've been using it to heat the 900 sq ft finished portion of the basement and it heats it up quite well. My concern is what appears to be the excessive amount of logs it consumes. Maybe this is normal but I'd estimate that if I ran it for the entire day, it would "chew up" about 14 - 18 logs. If I pack the stove at night with about 4-5 logs, I wake up to just a couple embers and mainly cold ash. Early on, I installed a damper on the main stack (thanks to a post on this forum) and that has made a huge difference in containing the burn, but I still feel the logs are consumed too quickly.

Am I wrong? I thought I'd post on this forum to get your opinion, but I'm getting close to visiting a few stove stores in the area to check out new stoves. I process my own wood (fell, buck and split) and the rate that the stove goes through wood is a bit discouraging. However, if I am indeed going through wood too fast, then I'm wondering if it's not the stove and more my setup. I don't want to invest in a new or newer stove if my setup is to blame (although I really think it's the stove).

Any thoughts or feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

[MongoMongoson]

I am sure that a more modern stove will help reduce your wood consumption. I don't know by how much. Probably quite a bit because you are heating a smaller area so you can run a stove lower and slower efficiently with a newer one. A new catalytic stove might be a good one for you.

For us, the switch to a modern stove was less dramatic when it comes to wood consumption. We are heating 2200 sq ft on 2 stories with 12' ceilings downstairs and 10' ceilings upstairs... pair that with lots of windows, lots of wind, and some leaks and I end up running the stove at relatively high BTUs per hour during most of the winter. I do think our wood consumption suffers a bit from that. We use less, but not enough for me to say it was a dramatic reduction. I am so far ahead on firewood that wood consumption is not really a concern for me. Picking spots to stack it is a bigger problem.

You are in CT so you are probably burning good hardwood... but I will ask anyway. What are you burning? If I burn box elder or silver maple, it will burn down to embers and fine white ash. If I am burning oak, red elm, hickory, or sugar maple I will have a good amount of coals in the morning and the downstairs is warmer in the morning as a result.

I don't have any experience with catalytic stoves, but maybe you could up your firebox size to get longer burns while still not overheating the basement by using a cat stove.

 

[MongoMongoson]

A couple of other thoughts...

Bigger splits can help. A couple big splits on the bottom with smaller ones to fill the gaps will help you get an extended burn. With softer woods, I have now started splitting them at about 8" or 6"x8". With splits that size, I can have coals left even with box elder.

Unfortunately, if you don't have them in hand already that is a solution that you won't benefit from for years, after your wood has seasoned.

How much ash do you typically leave in your stove? If you are cleaning it out fully and often it can be difficult for coals to last a while. A good, insulating layer of ash helps coals burn slower and last. It is great to have an inch or so of ash in the stove to build a fire on.

 

[all night moe]

Even the older stoves can be made more efficient. I'm not familiar with your stove but some have modified their old stoves for longer burns. A baffle could be one mod. Making sure the stove is indeed air tight with a controllable air inlet is another. If your chimney is still over drafting with one key damper, sometimes a second is needed.

If your setup can be tuned up, I'd start there. If you have money to burn, and quality seasoned wood, then maybe a new stove is right for you.

 

[begreen]

The Napoleon 1100c is a modern, EPA, secondary combustion stove, it doesn't need modification. However, the ~1.5 cu ft firebox is not large and it's primarily an E/W loader, unlike the 1400c which can be loaded N/S with 18" splits. The E/W loading of the 1100 means that one can never fully pack the firebox due to concerns of some of the wood rolling up against the glass. Getting 6-8 hrs burn time out of say 1.2-1.4 cu ft loads is on par with other stoves. Loading it with larger splits, closing down the air sooner, and watching flue temps can help reduce wood consumption by regulating the burn better.

ctwoodstove, have the stove door and ashpan gaskets been checked using the dollar bill test? They may be due for replacing. What temperature is the stove being run at? Is there a flue thermometer on the stove pipe? If yes, what temps are typically being seen there?

The draft may still be strong, though burning through 14 splits in 24 hrs. is not unusual. We go through that amount of wood heating 24/7 and more when it's cold out. Although the basement area is 900 sq ft,. the stove is also partially heating upstairs. What size are the splits and what species wood?

One thing to try is to let the ash pan fill up completely and shovel out the the excess ash instead. Doing this will increase the insulation under the firebed and it will seal up the ash pan, in case the ashpan door is leaking.

 

[ctwoodstove]

Hi all,

Thanks so much for taking the time to respond and to respond in such detail. Below are answers to the questions you posed:

What are you burning?

ANS. I burn a variety of wood as I take it from the surrounding property (dead or fallen trees). I generally burn oak, birch and maple, but I have also burned ash, basswood and poplar.

How much ash do you typically leave in your stove?

ANS. Hardly any. I empty the ashes every morning and don’t run the stove during the day. There have been a couple instances where I didn’t empty the ashes and the CO detector went off in the basement because once the downdraft started back up again, it would blow the fumes from the few remaining embers back into the basement. I should mention my burning habits as I’m sure they may contribute to some of the issues I think I’m having with wood consumption. We are a family of 6 and keep our temps upstairs down to between 59 - 62 so the wood stove in the basement (finished portion) serves as a place to hang out, relax and enjoy the heat. The stove is started each day between 3:00 and 4:00 and it runs until about 9:00. I don’t pack the stove at all overnight because we don’t run it in the morning (no one is home). The house was not built with the wood stove installed and the basement ceiling is insulated from the first floor. Therefore, any heat contributed by the stove to the first floor is that that makes it up the staircase. If we have it running all day (weekends), I do notice that it raises the first floor temp by up to 2 degrees. I suppose I could pack it at night and then pack it again in the morning, but I just doubt it would do much to supplement the first floor heat and I guess I just hate to use the wood that I processes when no one is home to enjoy the heat. And I’ve been under the impression that the stove consumes too much wood.

Have the stove door and ash pan gaskets been checked using the dollar bill test?

ANS. The haven’t! I looked up the test though, will try it in the morning and report back. I did replace the door gasket last year and felt that it resulted in a tighter seal so I guess the dollar bill test will tell me if I was correct. As far as the ash pan goes, I’m wondering if there is even a gasket. I don’t see one and when I shut the door, it’s metal on metal. One note that may be helpful is that due to its location in the basement and what I believe to be a tall stack running above the roofline of the house, there is a decent downdraft into the stove. I’ve been able to get pretty good at quickly getting the fire started and reversing that flow, but there have been times where it takes a bit to get going. When that happens, and I have the door shut (the gasket is new), smoke will seep out of the stove (not out the door) until the fire gets going and overcomes the downdraft. I’m not sure if this is normal or if the stove needs to be resealed. Another thing I notice is when wood is loaded to the hot stove, there is a vigorous updraft inside the firebox from above the ash pan door/cleanout. That’s what looks like it’s contributing to the “over burning” of the wood. I’m able to somewhat control it by damping the stove pipe completely and pushing in the air valve adjustment on the stove completed. Even still, when I do that, I will still get the strong rush of air coming from above the ash pan door/cleanout and the result is a pretty vigorous burning of the wood on that end.

What temperature is the stove begin run at?

ANS. I have a magnet thermometer on top of the stove and I try to keep it between 400 and 620 but it’s usually closer to 400.

What is the flue temperature?

ANS. I do also have a flue thermometer placed just before the pipe goes through the wall (about 3 feet above the stove). The temp usually reads between 200 and 250. The outlet pipe comes straight out of the stove for 12 inches, ten a 45 degree/ 32inch pipe runs into a 12 inch horizontal section before it goes out through the wall to the outside. The stove is located on one far end of the basement next to a sliding glass door/walk out.

What are the splits and what species of wood are you burning?

ANS. The splits are all between 14 inches and 16 inches long and then they range from 2.5” x 4” to 4” x 5.5.” I described the species above.

Yeah, ideally I’d like to see if I can keep the stove and experiment with my burning habits, the size of the splits, and with insulating the stove (ash pan) if possible. With that said, at this point, if the stove needs to be resealed, I’m probably not up for taking it apart and recementing it. I really would like to know if the stove is the issue because I’d like to get moving on looking for another one before we get too much farther into the session.

So, let me have it! Please send your advice about the stove and my burning habits. Tell what I can do better!

 

[begreen]

Thanks for the good responses. This is a welded steel stove at heart with a cast iron jacket. There shouldn't be any need for resealing. The outer cast iron jacket is cosmetic, thermal mass.

The reported temps sound like the stove is performing normally. However, the risk of draft reversal needs to be watched. This is not a stove issue, it's a tall, cold, outside chimney connected to a basement stove issue. A new stove won't solve that issue. There is a risk of draft reversing in the middle of the night as the stove cools down, under certain conditions. The basement sounds like it has slightly negative pressure that is overcome once the chimney is hot. Then it is the opposite issue with a tall chimney drawing hard.

Some things that can make the negative pressure situation worse: a window open or ouside air leaks upstairs, leaky attic door, exhaust fans like bath and kitchen, a clothes dryer, and competing appliances in the basement like a gas/oil furnace or gas hot water heater.

For sure there should be a good, loud, working smoke alarm and CO detector in the stove room.

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