advice on wall material

[11 Bravo]

Need advice for a friend who is tearing out an existing wall and fireplace in a corner of his 4 yr old log home. This is in a great room with 30' ceilings and a view to the loft where master bedroom and bath are. He plans on removing the wall that the fireplace is in as well as the tongue and groove pine on the newly exposed corner . In this corner he is going to build a hearth where he will put his new VC Encore or Jotul ? He plans to take the corner walls down to the studs all the way up to the ceiling, put on plywood, then Wonderboard or Dura-rock all around the stove and all the way up. On this, he plans to re-hang the cultured stone that he removed in the tear down of the original wall. Anyone know of the rock will cling to the wonderboard, or will mesh have to be used for a rougher surface ? Also, the reason for the Wonderbord or Dura-rock going to the ceiling is because the stove pipe is going to be totally exposed all the way up to the ceiling where it will then slip into the prexisting chimney that is going to be remodeled (by a pro...not us). Also, from reading some of the prior forum entries, the floor will have to be made with the same heat resistent material ? The hearth floor will be built over maple flooring.......If correct, this construction, including new stove, will pay for itself in 2-3 winters since he goes through 5-6 propane tank fills a year. Any advice, sugeestions are greatly appreciated....I will attempt to attach crude drawing....

 

[begreen]

Some thought should go into the wall building and to the stove choice. Some stoves have high back clearances, some not. If he needs to reduce clearances, then a 1" air gap will need to be introduced behind the stone wall. But if there is plenty of room, then this is not an issue. In general cultured stone is best applied to a metal lath substrate.
Here's a nice installation link to pass on: (broken link removed to http://www.eldoradostone.com/flashsite/main.html?gclid=CJqz3IzL8I0CFQGpIgod5F65Kw)

As to the stove, it sounds like it would be good for them to read over Mr. Super Husky's exhaustive queries into this subject. FWIW, this sounds like a great soapstone stove opportunity.

 

[11 Bravo]

The friend does not have internet, all we get is 24k here. I know he wants to put plywood over the studs to give the wonderboard some additional strength with the stone going on next. I have put cultured stone on cinder block and poured foundations, just gotta have a rough surface. Just havent put it over fireboard, and unsure if it will stick or if we'll have to use mesh first, as if we were putting it over wood. He has plenty f room to work with, and he was settling on a VC Reliant (or whatever the size down from the Defiant is)....and most likely a non-cat in matte black. But his wife likes Jotul since she has had those since childhood. The VC dealer here in our little town will do the stove, pipe, insert pipe into pre-existing chimney, labor and install for under 2500. Think the Jotol rep from the big city wanted 4000 or more....2k of that just for the pipe and install.....As far as soapstone, I will pass it on.......Also, do you have Mr. S-H links to his story ? Thanks

 

[begreen]

Given the lack of bandwidth, perhaps reviewing all of Mr SH's posts would be overwhelming. Here's an inital link. https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/7862/ I would recommend they go to their local library with the link provided and print out the instructions for installing the stone wall. Or perhaps the place where they are buying it will have good instructions as well.

If they have a great local dealer for the VC Encore and are happy with the stove, then go for it. Note that this stove with a tall flue stack on it, tends to get very hot in back, sometimes even red-hot in the back chamber. If there installation has a long flue straight up, they will almost certainly need a draft damper on the flue. Other than that, it should work well for them. Pay close attention to rear and corner clearances on this stove, don't cut it close. See: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/6674/ and related: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/4188/

Do recommend the soapstone option to them though, they should at least consider it (this is for them, right?). Another stove that might appeal to them is the Quadrafire Isle Royale. Forum owners of this stove have been very happy with the IR. Without details on house size I am guessing that a Jotul Oslo would be about right for them. Also a fine, well made stove.

 

[11 Bravo]

BeGreen........Even at 24k bandwith, that was a facinating 16 pages of forum discussion about the red-hot back on that VC Encore.......I have not read Mr. S-H's thread yet but will........From what I read in prior forum and Wiki, I think my friend's wall is being done correctly.....studs with plywood..then Wonderboard over that with mesh and the cultured stone ? And I will tell him to be wary of the proper corner clearances. As far as the very tall stovepipe, I seem to recall the dealer/owner/installer, who has 30 yrs experience, did mention the problem of the very hot temps.
Lastly, in reading through alot of the forum here, I recall things being said about the quality of VC in the last few years after it was sold. My thing is guns and pistols and I remember Smith/Wesson pulling the same crap in the 90's when they were bought by a British company and the quality went down significantly before being sold again. Has VC recovered, if there ever was a problem ?

 

[nshif]

Id forget the plywood on the walls, all you are going to do is reduce the CTC. If you are worried about structual issuses then use 2 layers of Duroc or cement board then maybe a ply underlayment above say 5 or 6 feet to save a few bucks.

 

[elkimmeg]

Vc has stabolized and has a world class foundry and good workers so much so they do the castings and enamaling for other companies like Harman.

The recently added Endlander to the list of companies they supply. So far the engineering dept there claims the castings to be far superior than their previous source

One might add a little more thinking from order to receiving casting from over seas is a 4 month time frame what if some of the castings do not measure up? Its not like they get discarded and re melted down like at the local foundry Orders have to be met so the castings are picked threw then picked threw again. meaning they end up in the stoves can't wait to shipo them back and receive replacements 5 months later These orders have to be met. If one has not noticed quality control in China has been in the news recently poison dog food lead paint in fisher price toys poison shrimp you get the idea 500000 tires recalled last week on new cars and trucks.

If you want I have posted a video of the VCc opperations view it and form your own oppinions I have seen the entire opperations and own 2 VC stoves Most of the Qc issues were in the mid 90's which were sloved.. Any manufacturer can , or worker have a bad day, and A stove slips by, especially making 50,000 a year, there will be a few. Even the years there were more quality issues still 10 of thousand stoves were top quality..

My suggestion is to review the manufacture specs and owners manual and determine what is needed for clearances I can help you with NFPA211 reduced clearances.
Vc manual has extensive info on clearances. Also consider non combustiable is only part of the issue thermal resistance to combustiables is the other part Heat still can transfere threw non combustiables to combustiable framing members?

Again Jotul is also atop quality product either manufacturer you should end up with a quality stove

11 bravo fort benington?

 

[11 Bravo]

Very good to hear about VC. My friend really wanted to stay with the local guy here in our small town, and he has VC/Dutchwest and seems to be very knowledgeable. The other guy, Scott, also happens to be my former SGT, Elk. We got the 1 hour class from the dealer here in town, Gerard, about the plus and minuses on Cat and non-Cat and just what the heck you guys are talking about on the forum. Kinda still up in the air but we are leaning non-cat so our wives don't have to mess with that stuff. Scott is purchasing his this week and mine will be a year down the road or so...........And yes Elk, Ft Benning for 20 glorious weeks........boot camp, AIT, Bradley vehicle school, jump school....then Germany for 3 years.....Rock of the Marne

 

[begreen]

11B, I can understand the dealer not knowing too much about the hot-backed stoves. With a shorter stack it is less an issue. Even VC took a lot of convincing, but it is happening. It is not limited to VC/CDW. Other stoves with the same design are Harman Oakwood and Lopi Leyden are examples. Fortunately, a stack damper is a safe, inexpensive and easy to install fix. If a VC Encore is the best fit for their needs I wouldn't hesitate as long as the draft stays under control. If they want a cast iron top-loader without this issue then they could look at the Encore catalytic or the Quad Isle Royale.

 

[11 Bravo]

I will pass on all the good advice. I know he is leaning toward the VC cause we would be supporting local business here in town. Just not gonna have the problem with support if needed with this shop. It's a 1 man operation, the guy spent 2 hours with us telling us the ups/downs of burning, cat or non cat, enamel coated.....blah blah blah but I know his wife likes Jotul