45 Degree stove pipe elbows- All Nighter Mid Moe

[ZydecoDiesel]

Hey friends, just picked up a used All Nighter- Mid Moe. Couple quick questions.

1. ) If I put two 45 deg. elbows will it affect draft or cresote?
2.) The Allnighter Mid Moe brings the pipe out of the back of the stove, not the top. Every stove I"ve ever had has the pipe coming off the top of the unit. Will the weight of the pipe be supported simply on the flange? (Maybe this is dumb question.)
3.) Does anyone know install code (or maybe this is by state?) I would like to put my pipe 18'' away from combustible-- according to the installation guide-- and not put any tile, rock, or backer board up. thoughts?

Thanks in advance

 

[MongoMongoson]

The code you can reference is NFPA 211. I don't know about CO specific laws, but they probably follow NFPA 211.

Yes, adding elbows will affect draft by reducing it. Two 45s are better than one 90 elbow, though.

Will the weight of the pipe be supported by the stove collar? That depends on your setup. If the pipe goes straight up, you could say it is hanging from the chimney above the stove (assuming you are connecting to class A chimney) along with being supported by the stove collar.

If the pipe goes out horizontally into the chimney, one end is supported by the collar and the other by the pass through to the chimney.

Make sure you screw all the pieces together with three screws, and that goes for the piece you attach to the stove collar as well.

Is your run of stove pipe going to be short? It sounds like you are planning to use single wall. That is fine for a short run, but you did ask about creosote. Double wall can help keep flue temps up and reduce accumulation but if your run of pipe is short enough, it won't matter too much.

You can't have an All Nighter stove 18" away from anything combustible without a heat shield... so the pipe will naturally be more than 18" away from combustibles.

Can you share pictures or even a simple sketch to show where you expect to have spacing limitations?

 

[ZydecoDiesel]

Hey Mongo, thanks for the insight here!! Your thoughts about “hanging” the pipe are helpful!

So following are a few pictures of my set up (there is an old sketchy barrel stove as a place holder— there is a rubber maid lid on the top that is about the right dimensions of the All nighter so I can see it.)

Ultimately… I could take the pipe straight up, no elbows, but it causes me to loose some floor space of the garage. The pipe will stretch about 10 feet from stove… through some exposed rafters…to the top of the tin roof+ whatever is past the roof on the exterior.

1.) So, first question is should I run straight pipe and sacrifice the floor space?

2.) Notice some of the photos that show the all nighter installation manual, And the owners manual. The first one says that the stove should be 32 inches away from from the wall, and the second one says 36. But both manuals agree The back of the stove pipe should be 18 inches from the wall. Is this 18 inches from a fire resistant material like cement board… or can it be 18 inches away from an exposed stud?

I’m also a little bit confused by the 32 inch… Or 36 inch distance from the stove to the wall. The back of the stove has the pipe flange, and then a pipe. So an 18 inch margin + a 6 inch pipe + a 2 inch flange is not 36 inches…

 

[ZydecoDiesel]

I guess the 36 inches from the stove… Also needs to be to bare stud… Or cement board?

 

[MongoMongoson]

The first thing I have to mention is about safety and liability.

It is a code violation to have a solid fuel heater in a garage. Imagine your tiller (I think that is a tiller) fuel line pops off and fuel pours out on the floor. Gasoline fumes travel along the floor to the stove and you get a kaboom. There goes your garage. Hopefully, that is all that goes. Your insurance company will not cover that loss. You can choose to accept that risk, just please be aware of it and be especially careful with oil and gasoline.

I would use 36" and forget the 32" in the 2nd All Nighter manual. 36" means horizontal lines from the stove and diagonal lines from the stove in all directions.

The cabinet behind your stove location gives a good example. You must keep single wall stove pipe at least 18" from combustibles in all directions, but you must also maintain 36" from the stove body to all combustibles, including the freezer in the back of the picture.

The 36" from the stove is to anything combustible. Once you get your stove in position, take a 36" yard stick and try to touch the stove and anything else with it at the same time. If you can do it, you need to move the stove or add heat shield. Heat shield is easy to add and might save you some floor space. It needs to be metal (24 gauge if I remember correctly) or cement board (or similar) spaced off the wall studs with 1" non-combustible spacers. There must be at least 1" space between the bottom of the shielding and the garage floor. You cannot have any heat shield fasteners directly behind the stove. That is, you must have them at a level below the stove body or above the stove body. With a heat shield, the minimum spacing drops to 12".

Additionally, the 36 or 18 inches is to anything combustible. So, if you had cement board directly attached to wood, the spacing would be to the wood behind the cement board, not the cement board itself. If you have a heat shield, the spacing would be 12" from the stove body to the combustibles behind the heat shield.

How tall will your chimney be and what is the altitude where the stove will be installed? The All Nighter will not be too fussy about draft, so the two 45s may not be an issue. Think about pipe cleaning, though. I have two 45s in my home setup and it would be a pain to clean if I had to take the stove pipe apart every year to clean it. If you connect to the All Nighter with a cleanout Tee at the stove collar, you may be able to take the cleanout cap off the bottom of the Tee and clean from the bottom up through both 45s using something like a Sooteater.

How do you plan to penetrate the roof? Will you have class A insulated chimney through the roof sitting on a support box, and then attach your stove pipe to the chimney at the support box?

The floor looks to be wood. You will need to have this stove sitting on a hearth to protect the floor from the stove heat. The underside of an All Nighter, in my experience, does not get too hot at all, but the stove sides radiate a lot of heat. In my old install on a wood floor, I made a hearth pad with metal studs, cement board, and topped it with sheet metal. The hearth pad did not get hot at all, but the wood floor beside the hearth pad could get hot to the touch. As in, I could not leave my hand resting on it. Quite hot, really.

You can see the stove manual shows a non-combustible stove mat with dimensions. I used those dimensions but spaced it off the floor with metal studs. Maybe I did not need the air gap under it, but I would do more than just put down a layer of cement board.

If you Google NFPA 211 you can probably find an older version of the code. That will give you all the details.