More Fireview Questions

[akennyd]

Y'all are going to ban me before it is said and done

Question: Is the fireview a stove that I will be able to curl up next to on a cold winters evening and be comfortable?

I guess from what I am reading the heat output is a little different from an all metal stove. Could someone please describe this in a little more detail. I have lived with a heatpump for 14 yrs now...when I get my stove I want to be warm, I don't want to be sitting a few feet from it wondering if it's burning or not!!

Thanks in advance

Kenny

John 3:16

 

[Wet1]

You're going to get responses saying the heat is softer, blah, blah, blah. The fact is radiant heat coming of a stove is radiant heat. What is different is the temp of the radiant heat. Two stoves, one steel and one stone, at the same external temp, releasing the same amount of radiant heat, will feel identical. Stone stoves tend to run cooler and at a more consistent temp throughout their burn compared to others, which is where the soft heat reference comes from. Although, at the end of the day, this "soft heat" is just another way of saying it isn't putting out as much heat at what would normally be the high point of the burn, but over the course of an entire burn cycle, the overall heat output is fairly similar... just more gradual and consistent

Anyway, any wood stove should provide more than enough heat to let you know it's plenty toasty when you get close to it... it's not lukewarm are like you might be used to with your heat pump.

 

[Highbeam]

The fireview has a higher max temp than the other soapstone brand but a lower max temp than the steel stoves. I have a cold soapstone stove and I often lounge on the floor in front of it basking in the silent radiant heat. Clear across the room on the couch with my feet up on the table towards the stove I can feel the soles of my feet warmed by this radiation.

None of this is unique to soapstone but it is unique to a radiant style stove. Curling up to a PE Summit for example with its convection shrouds and heat shields won't be as nice but we're splitting hairs here, any hot stove will feel good. You can choose to run the stove hotter and cook the room or with a cat stove, you can choose to run the stove cooler and get a longer burn time.

So to answer your question, you may choose to run it cold and wonder if it is running or you may choose to run it hot and cook your eyeballs.

 

[Todd]

Don't worry, you will feel the heat. It's kind a like stepping out of the cool Spring shade into the sun when you walk into your stove room.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Kenny, there is a difference.....a huge difference. I scoffed at the "soft heat" thing too. Now I don't.

As for feeling the warmth I'll give you a good example. We used to have a plastic floor covering (like what you have under a desk for the chair to roll on) at the entry door opposite the stove. That was just laid on top of the carpeting. We had it for several years that way and I hated it because it was always so cold. Every time I sat there to put my outdoor boots on, my feet would be on it and it would be cold.

Fast forward to 2007 and we installed our new Fireview. Bingo! I could then place bare feet onto that plastic and it was always warm as long as the stove was going. That is the way this stove has heated our old crate of a house. We burn half the wood we used to and stay much, much warmer. And if you want to curl up next to the stove; go right ahead and enjoy yourself.

 

[akennyd]

OK, looking more and more like it's going to be a Fireview!

One more question: How often do ashes have to be cleaned out and how much of a pain is that without an ash pan built in?

Thanks,

Kenny
John 3:16

 

[wendell]

The fact is radiant heat coming of a stove is radiant heat.

Well I normally wouldn't post something without the reference to back it up but I don't know that is true. I was in a large shop in Minneapolis a few years back when I was first shopping for a stove and I have to say, of all the stores I have been to, the guy I dealt with was the most knowledgeable I have met.

They carried all types of stoves (steel, cast and stone) and he told me that there is a difference in the frequency of the heat given off by the different materials with soapstone having the shortest wavelength and thus the more comfortable feel.

 

[Todd]

OK, looking more and more like it's going to be a Fireview!

One more question: How often do ashes have to be cleaned out and how much of a pain is that without an ash pan built in?

Thanks,

Kenny
John 3:16

I clean ashes out about every 4th day burning 24/7 and like to leave about 1/2-1" of ash in the stove. It can be a mess sometimes spilling from shovel to bucket, but Woodstock sells a ash bucket that fits right up against the door and when you shovel out the ash the lighter fly ash is sucked back into the stove by the draft. I'm going to get me one of those one of these days.

 

[DiscoInferno]

The fact is radiant heat coming of a stove is radiant heat.

Well I normally wouldn't post something without the reference to back it up but I don't know that is true. I was in a large shop in Minneapolis a few years back when I was first shopping for a stove and I have to say, of all the stores I have been to, the guy I dealt with was the most knowledgeable I have met.

They carried all types of stoves (steel, cast and stone) and he told me that there is a difference in the frequency of the heat given off by the different materials with soapstone having the shortest wavelength and thus the more comfortable feel.

It's basically blackbody radiation, and thus the spectrum/wavelength is determined by temperature. Material doesn't have anything to do with it beyond affecting the temp. Higher temps radiate higher frequencies / shorter wavelengths (if hot enough, you'll get visible light), so if anything soapstone should radiate longer wavelengths by virtue of lower peak temps.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Like Todd stated, Woodstock sells an ash container that is exactly the right height to fit right up to the bottom of the firebox door. It works like a charm. So easy, I let my wife do it all the time! lol

My wife empties ashes about every 4th day during the peak of winter; less at other times. It really is not much of a job and not difficult to do so long as you don't allow the coals to build up too much.

Speaking of the coals, that is one thing you will learn very quickly is that if you aren't careful the coal bed will build up so high there isn't much room left for the wood! But there is an easy fix to that and when the time comes we'll gladly lead you through it. It will become a daily thing so it will just become a habit.

 

[Slow1]

Speaking of the coals, that is one thing you will learn very quickly is that if you aren't careful the coal bed will build up so high there isn't much room left for the wood! But there is an easy fix to that and when the time comes we'll gladly lead you through it. It will become a daily thing so it will just become a habit.

Oh the suspense!

 

[Wet1]

Sorry guys, the soft heat thing is nothing more than lower temp. Stone has nothing to do with the radiant heat you feel, the surface temp of the stove is cooler so the perceived heat is "softer". A steel stove running at the same external temp will feel the same way. It's basic physics (as DI noted) and has nothing to do with stone vs. steel/cast iron... it's just the wavelength of the heat being given off.

 

[Slow1]

Sorry guys, the soft heat thing is nothing more than lower temp. Stone has nothing to do with the radiant heat you feel, the surface temp of the stove is cooler so the perceived heat is "softer". A steel stove running at the same external temp will feel the same way. It's basic physics (as DI noted) and has nothing to do with stone vs. steel/cast iron... it's just the wavelength of the heat being given off.

So, the lower temp is simply due to being able to run the stove lower with the cat and all? Stove spec is to run with stove top temp between 400-600 as "normal" and 600-700 as "High" burn ranges with over 700 considered overfire (numbers taken directly out of the fireview manual).

So the question then becomes, what is the "normal" operating temperature during the bulk of the burn cycle for one stove vs another?

As I type this however another thought crosses my mind - those numbers are for the stove top. The way this stove is designed the cat is there at the top burning off the smoke, so will the top be the hottest part of the stove? How much cooler will the sides be and how will this difference compare to other stoves since it is the side temperatures that will likely be radiating towards someone standing in the room. Perhaps the real question that should be asked will be what is the Front/side temperatures of various stoves during normal burn cycles.

I realize the temperature curves are going to be different - soapstone should have the 'smoothest' curve and most likely a steel stove would have the greatest spike (although loaded with firebrick I wonder if that really would be true) in temperature variations.

Can't wait for winter to come, we can get folks to do some measurements and compare results! Gentlemen (and gentlewomen) start your IR thermometers...

 

[Wet1]

Sorry guys, the soft heat thing is nothing more than lower temp. Stone has nothing to do with the radiant heat you feel, the surface temp of the stove is cooler so the perceived heat is "softer". A steel stove running at the same external temp will feel the same way. It's basic physics (as DI noted) and has nothing to do with stone vs. steel/cast iron... it's just the wavelength of the heat being given off.

So, the lower temp is simply due to being able to run the stove lower with the cat and all? Stove spec is to run with stove top temp between 400-600 as "normal" and 600-700 as "High" burn ranges with over 700 considered overfire (numbers taken directly out of the fireview manual).

So the question then becomes, what is the "normal" operating temperature during the bulk of the burn cycle for one stove vs another?

As I type this however another thought crosses my mind - those numbers are for the stove top. The way this stove is designed the cat is there at the top burning off the smoke, so will the top be the hottest part of the stove? How much cooler will the sides be and how will this difference compare to other stoves since it is the side temperatures that will likely be radiating towards someone standing in the room. Perhaps the real question that should be asked will be what is the Front/side temperatures of various stoves during normal burn cycles.

I realize the temperature curves are going to be different - soapstone should have the 'smoothest' curve and most likely a steel stove would have the greatest spike (although loaded with firebrick I wonder if that really would be true) in temperature variations.

Can't wait for winter to come, we can get folks to do some measurements and compare results! Gentlemen (and gentlewomen) start your IR thermometers...

I think you just answered most of your own questions. :cheese:

 

[Highbeam]

I have a non-cat soapstone with the supposed soft heat. Hey, it's a stove and I buy the argument that at a given temp you can't tell what the stove is made of if your eyes are closed. Here's the deal with soapstone, it gets hot during the burn and then as the burn fades away the temp slowly drops but it hangs out for a long long time in the 300-350 range for some reason and only drops below that when the coals are gone and you should have reloaded. What I'm saying is that the thermal mass allows these stoves to spend a lot of time in the low temp range. During an active fire, you shoot for the 400-500 temps.

I believe that hearthstone is responsible for much more of this "heat life" propoganda than woodstock. The non-cats will need to take advantage of this property more than the cat stove since the cat stove can really just be burned cool if you want cool.

If you are about to buy a woodstock fireview be sure to watch the little photo series on their website in the manuals section that is titles "fireview combustor cleaning" This photo series shows some very important pictures on just how well this stove is made and on just how easy cat maintenance should be. All cat stoves should be made this way. Now about that thermostat....

 

[Todd]

[quote author="Slow1" date="1251916781So, the lower temp is simply due to being able to run the stove lower with the cat and all? Stove spec is to run with stove top temp between 400-600 as "normal" and 600-700 as "High" burn ranges with over 700 considered overfire (numbers taken directly out of the fireview manual).

So the question then becomes, what is the "normal" operating temperature during the bulk of the burn cycle for one stove vs another?

As I type this however another thought crosses my mind - those numbers are for the stove top. The way this stove is designed the cat is there at the top burning off the smoke, so will the top be the hottest part of the stove? How much cooler will the sides be and how will this difference compare to other stoves since it is the side temperatures that will likely be radiating towards someone standing in the room. Perhaps the real question that should be asked will be what is the Front/side temperatures of various stoves during normal burn cycles.

I realize the temperature curves are going to be different - soapstone should have the 'smoothest' curve and most likely a steel stove would have the greatest spike (although loaded with firebrick I wonder if that really would be true) in temperature variations.

Can't wait for winter to come, we can get folks to do some measurements and compare results! Gentlemen (and gentlewomen) start your IR thermometers... [/quote]

Yes, The stove top temp doesn't always tell the whole story. You can have a 600 stove top with little or no visible flame and the other parts of the stove are relatively cooler. Or you could give the stove more air, have red hot coals with lots of flame and the stove top be less than 600 but the whole stove is pumping out major heat. It takes some trial and error figuring out this stove, but basically more air and flames equals more heat.

 

[Levi2u]

As to soapstone...
I was really conflicted when deciding on a new stove.
It's impossible to see a Tulikivi soapstone fireplace, and not want one.
However they are very expensive, extremely heavy, and you almost have to build your house around one.
Their main advantage is that you burn one really hot fire, and after it goes out the 2,000 pounds (or more) of soapstone give out heat for the rest of the day.
there is a local distributer/installer with whom I've talked, and he told me about a service call he made to a home where the new owner had no Idea what it was, and was burning slow controlled fires in it, and has almost ruined it with creosote that has built up inside, and is started to leak out through the stone joints.
Anyway this atracted me to the soapstone stoves like hearthstone, and woodstock, I had a chance to look at the hearthstone stoves localy, but the only way to see a woodstock is to go to the factory, and I just don't have the time budget for that. ultamately I choose a Morso 2110 instead.
In my research I did find a company out of NJ, who sells soapstone that could be used to make a stove from scratch, at a very reasonable price. (about .50 a pound)
And I may decide to buy some and augment my morso with some. Maybe just something for the top of the stove, maybe more.
Levi

 

[Backwoods Savage]

All the scientific educated stuff aside, all I know is that we used to have a steel stove and now we have a soapstone stove. We burn 1/2 the amount of fuel and the house is a lot warmer! Soft heat. lol

If the heat is the same, why are we so much warmer? If the heat is the same, why is our floor now warm when it used to always be cold? I'm not a college grad (only went part way) but I do know when I am warm and when I am cold.

 

[firefighterjake]

As to soapstone...
I was really conflicted when deciding on a new stove.
It's impossible to see a Tulikivi soapstone fireplace, and not want one.
However they are very expensive, extremely heavy, and you almost have to build your house around one.
Their main advantage is that you burn one really hot fire, and after it goes out the 2,000 pounds (or more) of soapstone give out heat for the rest of the day.
there is a local distributer/installer with whom I've talked, and he told me about a service call he made to a home where the new owner had no Idea what it was, and was burning slow controlled fires in it, and has almost ruined it with creosote that has built up inside, and is started to leak out through the stone joints.
Anyway this atracted me to the soapstone stoves like hearthstone, and woodstock, I had a chance to look at the hearthstone stoves localy, but the only way to see a woodstock is to go to the factory, and I just don't have the time budget for that. ultamately I choose a Morso 2110 instead.
In my research I did find a company out of NJ, who sells soapstone that could be used to make a stove from scratch, at a very reasonable price. (about .50 a pound)
And I may decide to buy some and augment my morso with some. Maybe just something for the top of the stove, maybe more.
Levi

Levi . . . does this place in New Jersey have a website or contact info that you would be willing to share with us?

 

[rob bennett]

I have a keystone in my living room and a pe vista in my family room. The fit, finish and engineering of the Woodstock is impressive. And I am a perfectionist about things like this. The PE is neat, but its a box that still has mig welding wire attached to every weld. It heats the rooms great. But its will never have the ooooooo factor of the keystone. Now I jut have to finish rebuilding my chimney.

 

[akennyd]

Thanks to all for the continued input!! Looks like I will be going with the Fireview...I keep looking at other stoves but I keep ending up back at the Fireview. I do wish the window was just a little bigger or that the Keystone was a little higher output.

I do still wonder some about how the fire in the Fireview will look for entertainment purposes but from my understanding (from what I have read in other posts) the fire can be controlled. In other words, provide more air for more flame and a faster burn (I guess one could do this when they want a good fire view, pardon the pun) or turn it way down for little flame and longer burn. Please correct me if I'm wrong on this.

Kenny

Je$us, who do you say He is?
John 3:16

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Fireview burning

Look at this one Kenny. The flames only get better!

 

[Todd]

Fireview burning

Look at this one Kenny. The flames only get better!

I love when my stove does that, who says cat stove don't have good looking fires? I think it looks better than those non cat burn tube fires where the flames look like some kind of gas burning grill or furnace.

 

[karri0n]

Fireview burning

Look at this one Kenny. The flames only get better!

I love when my stove does that, who says cat stove don't have good looking fires? I think it looks better than those non cat burn tube fires where the flames look like some kind of gas burning grill or furnace.

Agreed.


My only question regarding the secondary burn in that video, though; Where is the air coming from that is feeding those flames? Is that the airwash?

 

[Todd]

Fireview burning

Look at this one Kenny. The flames only get better!

I love when my stove does that, who says cat stove don't have good looking fires? I think it looks better than those non cat burn tube fires where the flames look like some kind of gas burning grill or furnace.

Agreed.


My only question regarding the secondary burn in that video, though; Where is the air coming from that is feeding those flames? Is that the airwash?

All the combustion air comes down through the air wash but there are some holes in that iron plate air wash above the glass to feed secondary air to the cat, so my guess is if the firebox is hot enough that the air wash and secondary air is lighting off gas before it reaches the cat.