Harman P61 and creosote

[mikesj]

Hello all- longtime listener, first time caller.

This is my fourth year burning a Harman P61A. I had an unpleasant experience yesterday and I need some guidance.

Yesterday, I was letting my stove shut down so I could do a full cleaning, which was just about overdue. My wife started smelling something burning- I checked the stove and the silicone on the exhaust pipe was smoking. I went outside and looked in the exhaust and saw that it was burning. When the stove finally cooled down, I did a full cleaning- there was creosote all over the inside of the stove and exhaust. I took a lot of time and did a full cleaning, scraping away all of the creosote. I figured this was probably due to airflow problems since the stove was so dirty. Well, after cleaning and firing it back up, creosote immediately started forming around the burnpot again.

I'm burning Turman pellets- from what I hear, most people think they're great. Would dampness in the pellets cause this? Any other suggestions/ideas?

Thanks in advance!

 

[pkitfox]

Yes, moisture lowers the temperature in your chimney. We used to tell people that chimney temperatures needed to be kept above the boiling point of water to avoid creosote problems. This was in the mid to late 70's when almost all wood inserts were not vented correctly.

I am new to pellet burning, but I don't know why pellets would be any different than cord wood. Continually burning wet wood is asking for trouble.

 

[Cincinnati Kid]

I have enjoyed using pellet stoves over the past 13 years. I don't believe moisture in the pellets is causing your problem. The reason is that when moisture invades a wood pellet, the pellet "expands into a little pile of sawdust." You would be able to tell very quickly if your wood pellets contain moisture.

It sounds like it may have something to do with your combustion air ratio relative to the pellet feed (in other words, your combustion air needs to be either increased or decreased).

Good luck with correcting the problem.

 

[ldjlookalike]

I belive it's the quality of pellets. Have you switched or bought from a differnt place lately. It would be just like burning pine in your wood stove. A good quality pellet will not creosot it should produce more of a fly ash.

 

[mikesj]

So far this season I've burned Southern States brand- which I thought were the best, Lignetics- which were ok and these Turmans. Apparently, everyone raves about the Turmans, which is why I'm not sure what's going on. I'm going to stop tonight to buy a few bags of another brand, so we'll see what happens.

One reason I'm wondering about the moisture issue is that I've been storing my pellets outside in a 3-sided shed. They are up off of the ground on pallets and covered in plastic and then tarped.

 

[ldjlookalike]

When pellets get wet they fall apart. Some pellets have a high pitch content or a binder to hold them together and thats makes for tough burning and a messy stove/furnace. Try new pellets and look for 100% hardwood.

 

[crausch]

I am burning Turmans with great success.

I am curious what stove settings are you using?

 

[mikesj]

Turmans are supposed to be hardwood. I've seen pellets that have gotten wet and reverted to their prior state- I haven't seen any signs of moisture inside these bags. I just wonder if they can absorb enough moisture to create a problem, but still remain in pellet form. I've burned every kind of pellet I can find and I've burned 50-50 corn pellets, but I've never seen creosote build up like I had on my stove yesterday. To make things worse, I still have a ton of Turmans left in the shed.

 

[mikesj]

codebum,

I've mostly been running my stove on max room temp with different feed rates. I find that the only way to get good burns with the Turmans is to have a feed rate of around 2. Any higher and they don't fully burn before going over the edge into the ashpan. Actually, when I have used a higher feed rate with the Turmans, they also bunch up in the burn pot and lift the flame guide up.

 

[ldjlookalike]

If they got truely wet they will not revert to their original state, unless they have a binder. I had 6 ton pellets out doors from spring to fall and had one bag get wet and there goes 6 bucks.

 

[crausch]

That sounds like you may have a problem with that batch of pellets. I burn my Turman and most pellets using a max feed rate of 4 to 5. It sounds as though you are getting an insufficient burn out of those pellets. They may just be damp (not wet) but damp enough not to burn correctly. Try taking a small bucket or pail of the pellets and let them sit out near the stove for several days to dry some more. See if the burn changes.

It sounds to me like when I burned wood. If my wood was to wet or I burned too low, then the creosote was more evident.

Your going to need to get some other pellets in the mean time. I don't think Turman is a bad pellet, but you definitely have something wrong with those.

 

[ldjlookalike]

A quick test you can try to see if pellets are damp. Put the pellet in pliers if it squishes they are probably damp and if they snap they are dry enough. The better test is to take a sample to the local grainmill to have then test the moisture content.

 

[slls]

here’s a cooking recipe for pellets (lets ya know if they have excess moisture in em);

1, place 1/2 cup pellets in a GLASS not plastic bowl.
2, cover the bowl with a saucer to make moderately airtight
3, nuke them in microwave for about 45 sec, to 1 minute.
4, immediately when finished heating remove the saucer and tip it up vertically, look for moisture on the bottom of the saucer, there should be a little, if enough is present to allow it to run down the bottom of the saucer, they have excessive moisture and probably will not burn optimally.

Courtsey Mike of England's Stove

 

[Whimpster]

Hello all- longtime listener, first time caller.

This is my fourth year burning a Harman P61A. I had an unpleasant experience yesterday and I need some guidance.

Yesterday, I was letting my stove shut down so I could do a full cleaning, which was just about overdue. My wife started smelling something burning- I checked the stove and the silicone on the exhaust pipe was smoking. I went outside and looked in the exhaust and saw that it was burning. When the stove finally cooled down, I did a full cleaning- there was creosote all over the inside of the stove and exhaust. I took a lot of time and did a full cleaning, scraping away all of the creosote. I figured this was probably due to airflow problems since the stove was so dirty. Well, after cleaning and firing it back up, creosote immediately started forming around the burnpot again.

I'm burning Turman pellets- from what I hear, most people think they're great. Would dampness in the pellets cause this? Any other suggestions/ideas?

Thanks in advance!

 

[mikesj]

I picked up 10 bags of Appling County pellets on my way home tonight. So far, the first bag seems to be burning ok- a little ashy, but no creosote that I can see. I will do the pellet microwave thing and let everyone know the results.

 

[mikesj]

Here's an update: I picked up 10 bags of Appling Co Pellets and they seem to be burning well- dirty, but they seem to have plenty of heat. I've been sitting my Turman pellets beside the stove in a coal bucket for a while and then mixing them with the Appling County ones. This combo seems to be working well at this point, it just means a bit more work for me.

I did the microwave thing, and didn't get any noticeable moisture. I'm convinced, though, that there must be enough moisture in the pellets I've been burning to mess up the whole process.

 

[crausch]

Here's an update: I picked up 10 bags of Appling Co Pellets and they seem to be burning well- dirty, but they seem to have plenty of heat. I've been sitting my Turman pellets beside the stove in a coal bucket for a while and then mixing them with the Appling County ones. This combo seems to be working well at this point, it just means a bit more work for me.

I did the microwave thing, and didn't get any noticeable moisture. I'm convinced, though, that there must be enough moisture in the pellets I've been burning to mess up the whole process.

It's good to hear that you have a work around that allows you to a least keep burning and use up the bad pellets. I am on a "early bird list" at my dealer for in the spring to buy pellets. Since my experience with the Turman pellets has been a good one, I am expecting to purchase more Turman pellets in the Spring (dealer is assuming they will have Turman again). I am aware that this coming years batch could be different from last years, so fingers crossed that your situation was just a rare occasion and that it is not going to be more common with Turman.

You should post a review on the ACP pellets after you are done burning them. My experience with those was way too much ash. Sounds like you are having better luck with them.

 

[mikesj]

Right now I'm burning Turman's- they're from the top of the last ton I have left. They seem to be burning fine. My thoughts are that the bags on the bottom of the stacks may have absorbed moisture- not enough to make them crumble, but just enough to make a burning problem. I guess that I'll find out when I get towards the bottom of this ton.

At this point, I think that I'll have to re-evaluate my pellet storage setup. As a sidenote, I had problems with Turman pellets last year- they were too long. Overall, they burned well, but they seemed to be longer and every now and then they would bridge the auger opening, causing the stove to shut down. This years Turmans seem shorter, so that problem appears fixed.

The Appling County pellets I've burned are really dirty, but they throw out some serious heat. Other than burning dirty, there haven't been any performance problems that I've noticed.

 

[crausch]

I agree that the Turmans are long. My "Advance" stove seems to do well with them though. The Turmans I have are also hard which I think is good. If you try to break one, it takes a little force to make it snap. Other pellets I have burned beak in half with only the slightest pressure.

It sounds like you have your problem figured out. It would be good if you could air out your damp pellets somehow. They might not be much good for this season but if you can let them dry, maybe they will burn ok next year.