Are Burners So Hot That No Dealers Will Budge From MSRP?

[Woods Dweller]

I realize that people who have never owned wood burners are flocking to the dealerships, but I've been pricing high effeciency ZC units for the last month and NO ONE seems to want to give any kind of discount off MSRP.
It's a pretty big deal when the MSRP on just the unit is over $5K. That doesn't include chimney system or instalation labor.
Is this true every where, or just here in South Jersey?

 

[begreen]

The season is starting early this year. You would think with the fall off of new home installs that dealers would be welcoming any new business with summer incentives, but apparently not.

 

[Woods Dweller]

Apparently the price of heating oil has increased sales and decreased available inventory. So "they" say! I understand the increase in prices due to steel increases and overall economy issues, but nothing off lst? That hurts. A little offensive!

 

[PeteD]

I got 10% off my dealer's list on the Lennox Brentwood. Their price was also lower than other dealers to start with. I saved about $700 off of $3k for the unit at another dealer. This order was placed about 4 weeks ago, for what it's worth.

Pete

 

[Woods Dweller]

Maybe I could get a better deal on a free standing stove. I hear these dealers call the high effeciency fireplaces "upscale units" and maybe they think everyone that is looking at them is willing to pay "upscale" mucho dinero! I picked up the phone 3 times today to pull the trigger and put the phone back down. Do the manufacturers honor warranties if you install yourself?

 

[jeff6443]

Got estimate in Dec. waited till june . The nice people called and said my stove was not in stock , Had to wait another week , remember its june . Stove came in .Dealer calls and says ,you ordered in our slow time glade to have the work and your stove is on sale 200.00 cheaper then quoted . They dont sell fish huh . BTW I m all in cant wait did 2 small fires in july my house was a hundred lol .

 

[acesover]

i would say yes they would because most of the warranty is on the steel and welds. so for them to get around that they would have to say you were over heating the stove or what ever not much to do with the install.

 

[webbie]

Most stoves are sold at approx list price - just the way it is. There are exceptions - BUT, these are usually high volume units like freestanders or inserts, because the dealer can buy them in larger quantities and therefore get a better deal and pass it on.

When it comes to bigger and heavier built-in units, you are doing well if there is no added freight.

All in all, stoves are not like cars or big screen TVs. There may be some price flexibility on certain units at certain times, but they are limited production and hand-built...and require delivery, installation, service, etc....all which work against discounting.

 

[Jay777]

I got a free blower, back in May. It was going to be a June promo, but they gave it to me early (I didn't even know about it.. they told me when they were filling out the invoice). In June they were also running a "tax-free" deal (5% off), but June 1 (I believe) was also when the mfr stove price went up, so it wasn't cost-effective to wait for the 5% discount.. I was a little surprised they had any discounts at all. I'll bet they don't have them now though

 

[begreen]

Maybe I could get a better deal on a free standing stove. I hear these dealers call the high effeciency fireplaces "upscale units" and maybe they think everyone that is looking at them is willing to pay "upscale" mucho dinero! I picked up the phone 3 times today to pull the trigger and put the phone back down. Do the manufacturers honor warranties if you install yourself?

Overall, the freestanding stove should be less expensive to purchase and install. And it will heat a bit better too. Sounds like a good plan.

 

[Wet1]

I got them to knock about 20% of the pellet stove I bought at the beginning of June, but that was when things were just starting to go nuts. As a matter of fact, I made the deal and paid for the stove over the phone on a Thursday with the intention of picking it up Sat. morning. The store owner called me back Friday afternoon and said he wanted more money for the stove (full list price) because he was suddenly getting a lot of demand for this stove. I went down there Sat. and had quite a few words, but I did walk out of there with the stove at the original 20% off price he agreed to. I don't think the demand has eased much since, so I wouldn't expect you're going to find many deals until after X-mas...

Best of luck.

 

[begreen]

One thing appears like it will be certain this year is that you will be lucky to get a stove at all by the end of next month.

 

[the_dude]

What unit are you looking at? I just had a high efficiency ZC unit installed. I looked at every unit available at 4 different dealers in the area back in April/May, and I don't remember a single one being over $5K just for the unit. I think the Quadrafire 7100FP was over 4K, and that was by far the most expensive. Is that the unit you are looking at? The Magnum ZC was the biggest unit with the longest warranty and that was going for 1,800 in May. I went with the Kozy Heat Z42CD and I think the MSRP on the unit was under 3K with the options I got (cast doors and custom screens).

 

[kwburn]

If the used stove market is any indicator, then MSRP does not surpise me in the least.

The used stove market this year is just plain stupid and its still summer. Come fall it will be ludicrous.
95% of the stoves being sold are old pre-EPA polluters at ridiculous prices.
Anyone that has a decent wood stove already knows better than to sell it.

Haven't read a single "Selling wood stove as I converted to gas" classified ad yet this year!

 

[Woods Dweller]

I was considering the Naploeon High Country NZ6000 but I have a log home and the install calls for metal studs a good ways up the wall and that's just not an option for me. That was the biggest unit I saw. Over $5K with doors and face. I think the firebox is like 4.8 CF. I'm close to pulling the trigger on a Fireplace Extrordinair Elite 44. Has a 4.3 CF firebox. List for unit, basic black doors and face is just over $5K. Just started considering the North Star by Heat & Glo. Quite a bit maller, but cheaoer. I can get that unit for abot $3600 but can't find much info about it. The manufacturer doesn't list the firebox size in thier flyer or install manual. I think the North Star and Quad 7100 are clones. They're both made by the same manufacturer and spec out almost identicle..Never herd of the Magnum.

 

[Backroads]

I bought an Oslo about a month ago well below MSRP but they wouldn't budge on their asking price. I think I still got a decent deal though.

 

[the_dude]

The NorthStar and 7100 are clones. I believe when I looked at them, the NorthStar had .1 cubic foot smaller of a firebox than the 7100, but don't quote me.

I didn't look at the other units that you did, because those where much larger than I need and I was replacing an existing fireplace so I had to keep overall dimensions in mind. How big is the area you are trying to heat?

The Magnum was one of the bigger ones I looked at with a 3.5 cu ft firebox. Not near as nice looking as the NorthStar or 7100, but less than half the price. It also has an impressive warranty.

(broken link removed to http://www.americanenergysystems.com/magnum_zc.cfm)

Have you looked at the BIS Tradition? 4.0 cu ft. Nice looking unit. I think it has an MSRP of around $4K.

 

[Woods Dweller]

I know that the Quad has a 3.5 SF firebox. I can't find the box size of the Northstar anyhwere. I even downloaded the installation manual and nothing. I looked at the BIS Tradition. Good looking stove, but the burn is only rated at 8 hours and the only dealer near me is very high with chimney system and install costs. VERY high! My house is about 2000 SF, but it's a log home with 22' cathedral ceilings with a 800 SF loft. The space I want to fill is pretty big. See the pic. The firebox opening on the Icon is 50" wide. The uit itself is like 61" wide. So I need a large unit.

 

[the_dude]

Based on your picture there, I think your options a pretty unlimited, depending on the depth of your chase. I am 99% sure when I looked at the Northstar they were able to tell me the firebox was 3.4 cu ft. I seem to remember it being .1 less than the 7100. I also beleive the Northstar is something like 51K BTU/hour. Have you looked at Kozy Heat. My Kozy Heat is rated for 60K BTU/hour, with right around a 3 cu ft firebox. I haven't cranked it up yet, but it is a pretty nice unit. I think MSRP is around $2,500.

Also, have you looked at Napoleon? I never looked at that unit because I new it was too big for me, but you may want to take a look. Honestly, I think with your set up you could go with any size you want. I think with your project, your best bet would be to remove all the stone and have it all replaced. You don't have a lot of square footage to cover, and no matter what stove you get, they are going to have to remove some stone and re-frame the opeing.

Here is a pic of my Kozy Heat for reference.

 

[Woods Dweller]

Here are a couple of pics. I pulled the chimney and fireplace this weekend. Took my time and there was absolutely no stone damage! As you can see from the size of the hole, the Heatilator Icon 100 that came out was a monster! I wanted the Napoleon High Country NZ6000, but could not install it. Plenty of room for the unit but required metal studs and non combustables pretty high up the wall ABOVE the unit. Probably because Napoleon claims that the stove can put out in excess of 100,000 BTU under perfect conditions. Metal studs above not possible with log walls.
Anyhow, today I put a deposit down and ordered the Extrodinair Elite 44 with artisan face. Way too expensive, but I figure I'll get it back eventually with propane savings! My only concern is that I've never had a cat stove. We'll see. I'll have some stone work to do filling in the gaps because even though the Extradinair is pretty big with a 4.3 SF firebox, it still won't completely fill that huge space.

 

[skamp]

Like anything else, it's all based on supply and demand. I got $200 knocked off my stove but I ordered it back in May. Back then things wern't as crazy as they are now I'm sure. Went by a guy's house today that I used to buy wood from to burn in my fireplace and he's already sold out.

 

[Woods Dweller]

No discounts for me! I'm paying full list for the unit. Almost $6K with the the upgrade artisan hand hammered face and doors. $7600 including new chimeny system, installation. and tax. I did save the $500 they wanted to dissasemble my old chimney and remove the fireplace. Was a bit of work, but i wanted to make sure the stone didn't get damaged. Plus I'm thrifty (my wife says cheap!) and wasn't about to pay $500 when I knew I could do the work. I'll let the pros install the new unit for warranty, insurance, and legal matters.

 

[itworks]

I realize it's impolite to answer a question with another, but your question begs this multiple choice question.

Your a dealer that sells a product that suddenly is experiencing unprecedented demand. What do you do?


(A) Lower the price to increase demand that can't be met and lose $$$$

(B) Raise the price so very few can afford it and lose $$$$

(C) Maintain current price (MSRP) and make $$$$ you originally budgeted for

(D) Since it's a high efficiency product give it away for free and lose $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

[Woods Dweller]

I would choose:

E. Maintain business as usual - small to moderate discount off list to ensure that my customers stay loyal, which in the long run, equates to maximum long term prosperity.

 

[BrotherBart]

I kinda like D.