Liquid creosote out off spark assestor?

[Red Rock Dust]

I'm getting drops of liquid creosote off my spark arrestor and its adhering to the roof jack and unto the roof shingles. Not only is it unsightly, but I'm very concerned with fire danger. Never seen anything like this, although I've not had any experience with wood stoves of this type that have a thermostat and two ways you can burn the wood, horizontal or vertical.

A little history.

We had been given a Vermont Castings (1984) Resolute III, and finally got it hooked up with a Simpsom three wall kit (9 ' of three wall + two 45* single and bottom sections which equal about 8' for 17' altogether) through the attic to the roof. Fired it up first time Dec 07. Read and re-read the instructions that I downloaded on the model from the web site. Have heated up the stove to 500-600* before putting four more pieces of wood into the stove, (6 total) for night burn in the horizontal long burn mode, and then have kept a close eye on it, as its been a long time since I've had a stove like this and not an open hearth fireplace.

On the 15th, I went up on the roof and checked it out, and cleaned the pipe and and actually dismantled the interior stove pipe to see how much creosote build up there was on the lower half as I was forced to have to use the two 45* for offsetting the ceiling joist. It was more than I expected, for only having been burning 24/7 for a week, but nothing close to being 'choked'. Maybe a little less than an 1/8 of an inch. At that time I didn't really pay any attention to any 'tar' on the roof jack, but noticed that the spark arrestor and the top inch of the flue had quite a bit of caked creosote on it, and some standing tarry liquid. Hmm I said, weather or some wet wood. Cleaned everything. On Christmas eve, went up again and that's when I started noticing the drips on the roof jack that had condensated from the spark arrestor, and some on the exterior of flue. Hmm, cleaned the flue again, this time with it all together, pulling through an older 6" brush from the bottom (as the diameter seems to be a little tighter on the older enamel single wall pipe) and using another, new, 6" brush on the fiberglass pole to really clean the top Simpsom section. About the same amount of creosote, but boy the roof jack is getting covered, and now one of the roof shingles near the bottom where it's draining to, is looking 'wet'. Some of the drops have dried in place. But there is a 'tar' rim at the bottom edge of the roof jack from I guess more liquid creosote.

After company gone, started going up on roof and checking the liquid tar. During the day I kept it on standard vertical, flue open short burn, and had no staining, standing liquid creosote. Ran the long burn that night. Kept an eye on it, rising in the night three times to see the temp on lid was 400*, hotter than the 300* that the day burn setting I had it at. (hey its Arizona ;-) Next morning went up on roof, and had standing tar. Cleaned it up with a paper towel. Last night, instead of putting in 6 pieces of split or round oak, used four, and set thermostat to around 300-400*. This morning had standing liquid creosote. Sooo... the temp was not as low as its had been, last night around 34*, so all I can think as it being cooler at night it caused the creosote to condense. Have used almost 100% seasoned oak, but we had quite a rain several weeks ago, just before we put the stove on line, and the wood got wet. Since have covered it and have had no rain since. (hey it is Arizona ya know ;-) and brought some of it under the front porch. Love the stove... really works well. I had dismantled the two sides before installing it and tilted it on its side to get the ash out of the back chamber, there was a mess of it, not much in the left side. Resealed the two sides with 2000* Rutland stove & gasket cement.

Ok... any ideas??

Could it be seasoned, but not seasoned enough oak? Perhaps it got wet from the rain and this is the culprit. I have no other wood to try but some pecan. Perhaps that could prove the wood, or not. Whatca dink?

BTW... I found this wonderful web site this morning while doing a search on for creosote.


thanks for any help,,, p.

 

[JimWalshin845]

Welcome aboard Red Rock Dust,

The only thing I can see is that you are not letting the temps rise to 500-600 degrees AFTER you add your wood, you mentioned that you are doing it 'before' you add more fuel.

This is important because adding new wood will bring down the stove and flue temps and cause creosote. So bring the temps back up to 500-600 and then adjust your draft control. I think the Defiant/Vigilant/Resolute manual covers this topic, so maybe read it again.

Burning a older smoke dragon you are going to get 'some' creosote, but by burning your stove HOT for 15-30 minutes every day and bring the stove temps up after each load will make a difference.

Good luck and welcome aboard!

 

[WOODBUTCHER]

Split a few pieces of that oak up and check it out.......see if its damp and has an odor to it.....it has a very pungent odor that gives itself away "I'm not ready yet"
Oaks needs over a year after being split depending on how its stacked and amount of sunlight the pile gets. Thats the first thing I'd do, then you'll know either way if your operating the stove right. Also, some pics of your stack and the sections where the (2) 45's are would help.


WoodButcher

 

[Red Rock Dust]

Ok, thanks for the replies... I remember unseasoned Oak as a child. My Uncle Bob from Connecticut and I were walking down Tollgate Road, and there was this smell coming from the chimney of a new house, he nudged me with a smile and said, "Hey Pisst; .. its green Oak there trying to burn. ;-)

Well I went out a split a four inch log, most all of the wood is split already, and it does seem damp still inside. Went and used the table saw and cut an 1/8" side piece, it snapped in two, but still acted damp. Not like a comparison piece of red oak I have from a chair project. But I thought I had checked this out by going up on the roof and taking a whiff of the burning oak. It didn't have that pungent oder. Still it may be to damp. Hmm perhaps what I will do this evening is just burn the broken pieces of pecan and see what the flue tell tells are tomorrow morning

As for the heat, I would have a good fire burning, setting the thermostat high and keeping an eye on it. Then when it reached 500-600* for 15 - 20 minutes added two new logs, with the dampener still in the short burn position. Let it get back up to 500-600*. Then add two more, turn the thermostat down and shut it down to long burn immediately after adding the last two pieces. Six in all. Isn't that basically what your stating? Do I misunderstand what the directions seem to be saying, from my interpretation, and what your saying? It seems if you leave it on to long, on short burn, the whole stack will be aflame, instead of burning up horizontally from the bottom. That the whole stack would be burning instead of just the bottom.

Also, haven't tried to clean the roof jack yet, what will cut that darn stuff? Will have to be careful in cleaning, as what will ever cut that 'Tar' will also tend to dissolve the shingles. ;-)

thanks again p.

 

[JimWalshin845]

No, you want to get the wood hot, charred before dampering it down, the draft control will take care of the rest. Here is the segment in the manual that explains it the best.

 

[Red Rock Dust]

Ha... different manual, that clears that issue. Thank you. Went up and scarped clean the top horizontal metal of the spark arrestor, got it all shinny, and decided not to burn the pecan. We will stick with the oak, and do the correct burn sequence before going to long burn.
thanks again p.

 

[JimWalshin845]

FYI, here is the PDF from VC.

http://www.vermontcastings.com/catalog/elements/files/Defiant_Vig_Res_Intre_Pre88-0029.pdf

You will still get some creosote but the only way to alleviate that is to upgrade to a EPA stove. Otherwise, just remember to burn the stove HOT for 15-30 minutes a day, that will vaporize most deposits in the lower end of the flue.

We use TSP in the stove once a week. We find it helps break down the creosote in the upper 4'-5' feet of our flue. The build up in ours is about the thickness of a fingernail and we burn well seasoned white/red/black oak in a 10"x10" tiled flue.

Good luck and let us know how you make out!
Jim

 

[Highbeam]

I believe that even an EPA stove will accumulate junk in/on the cap. Especially if the cap is equipped with a spark arresting screen which is a junk magnet. My EPA Hearthstone stove feeds a chimney with a cap and it accumulates lots of fluffy chunks. No ooze though. I can blow most of it off with my lungs.

 

[Red Rock Dust]

Well this morning after loading the stove only once (all of it), and a burning over 30 min last night at high temp and, I had very little liquid creosote, and that only where the screen touched the bottom surface, and under one of the legs of the spark arrestor. Of course there was a light culmination of regular brown creosote adhered to the cleaned shinny horizontal surface of the spark arrestor. I left that and will see what we get tomorrow.

Looking at some other posts on the forum for the VC Resolute III, I was thinking back to when I cleaned the stove of ash and had taken out the right and left side and recaulked them, I had noticed that directly under the damper, when it was in the long burn position, you could see where two "plates" or parts came together. I can't seem to find my parts list to name them at this time, but wondered if perhaps that was an area that should have also been caulked. It showed no sign of old caulk, so I didn't bother with it. Now I'm wondering if that was an area where the inlet air goes to the lower ..what 5 holes in the back plate, and perhaps the area above is for the long burn exhaust, that some of the combustible air would be sucked up the chimney, causing a lower air flow to the fire chamber. Perhaps that's the way it designed, or should it be caulked?

Jim you use TSP... ha... I know of the stuff, have used it the past for cleaning, but that's quite an idea to add it once a week. How much do you put in, and when? High heat or low?

And the stuff on my CAP.. is not fluffy, could use it as a glue...
hmmm it probably stick a duck to it, if one where to want a hot seat... ;-)
p.