6/5/96 - - - Back
to List archives - Back to Club House
1. More on metal roofs
2. Reprints of Hearth and Home articles?
3.World Wide Hearth Industry - Ventless Opinions from down under.
6/6/96
1. Hearth and HPA
2. On the road and reply to above
6/13/96
1. HPA and Hearth, Rumor
2. hpa vs hearth
3. Warranty
4. Response to Warranty
6/14/96
1. FREE Email
2. VC-CFM merger complete - things heating up !
6/16/96
1. A reps spin on Warranty Matters
2. HPA and Hearth - Why can't we all get along ?
6/18/96
1. Ventless Legal in California ?
6/19/96
1. HPA Education Director on FIREWRIGHT
2. Note on above
6/21/96
1. Concern about Unvented in Ca.
2. Advice for the Retailer
3.New Bulletin Board for Communications
4. Firewright Program - Description
6/22/96
1. Comment on EDI, Communication, Bulletin Boards, etc.
2. Will not Sell Ventless
6/22/96#2
1. Good Things about Ventless
2. Flame wars ?
6/24/96
1. Efforts on gas safety
6/26/96
1. QuadraFire cleaner than ever ..
2. Direct Sales on the NET
3. Comment on direct sales
6/29/96
1.Suggested Purchase order Boilerplate ?
2. VC/CFM Article/Hearth and Home
6/30/96
1. Answers about Proposed Purchase Order text
2. Comment on Bulletin Boards
Hearth Digest 6/5/96
In this issue:
1. More on metal roofs
2. Reprints of Hearth and Home articles?
3.World Wide Hearth Industry - Ventless Opinions from down under.
1. More on metal roof To: [email protected] Subject: Metal roofs
Tim Nissen wrote the other day about flashings for use on standing seam
metal roofing. I certainly hope that neoprene or some other material gets
approved for use. We have been doing a fair amount of work on metal roofs
for about 15 years and the one thing I can tell you is that the lead flashing
will get eaten away by electrolysis, just like on boats. The time frame
seems (no pun intended) to vary from 3-10 years before significant softening
occurs and a hole develops. We have not found a long term answer. Anyone
else? Skip Stahmer Sierra Timberline Grass Valley, CA
____________________
2. Reprints of Herth and Home articles?
From: Jeff Palmer
Subject: vent-free
I would like to see articles by Paul Stegmier and Tom Greiner(both are in
this months Hearth And Home) on vent-free products and indoor air quality
made available to the retail consumer. Please e-mail response. Thanks
Craig Issod ([email protected]) responds to above :
I'm not sure if these articles are "owned" by Hearth and Home
magazine,GRI, HPA or by the Authors. Since Richard Wright and Paul Stegmier
are on the list, I invite them to answer (on the list or privately to you)
______________________________________________________
3.World Wide Hearth Industry - Ventless Opinions from down under.
Craig Issod ([email protected]) says:
Received the following email from Australia today. I'm constantly amazed
by the WORLDWIDE audience on HearthNet, and the communication that is taking
place between interest parties...We do live in interesting times....
Dear Sir/Madam Thank you for your informative articles , which I have printed
out and distributed to various sales people in the industry here in Sydney
Australia However I would like to add to your article on ventless gas fires
two important aspects 1. The production of moisture , which causes mildew
with its associated problems 2.The safety w.r.t.burning of children and
old people
Regards Karel de Keijzer de Keijzer Designer Fires (all glass open fires)
Hearth Digest 6/6/96
IN this issue:
1. Hearth and HPA
2. On the road and reply to above
1. Hearth and HPA
To: [email protected]
From: [email protected] (jonathan a. harman)
Subject: HPA and Hearth, Rumor
The first thing that comes to mind is: Why re-invent the wheel?
Why would HPA want to add another burden to its budget? Does someone need
a job? If there are two certifications available, will some states want
HPA only and others want Hearth only? Will this eventually get to the county
level? This could be a potential pain in the butt and wallet for the specialty
retailer.
If I remember correctly, our industry was divided into to trade organizations
(Wood Energy Institute and ....????). They grew up and became the Hearth
Products Association. Why would the HPA suggest a step backwards?
I hope I read this wrong or I am dreaming. Last thing our industry needs
is to be torn apart form inside itself. The tree-huggers are bad enough.
RUMOR:
I heard that room vented heaters are going to be leagal in California by
May next year. Is there any truth to this?
Once again, Craig thanks for your efforts.
Jon _______________________________
2. Craig Issod ([email protected]) says:
I'm going to Disney World till next thursday, so they will probably not
be any digests during that time...I will be checking my email with my portable,
and if there is any important or timely posts, I'll email them to the list
from from Florida....
As far as Hearth and HPA, I regret that I am not well enough informed to
make an honest appraisal of the current situation.
My own experience this year , when HPA "forced" Hearth to cancel
the retailers' discussion of Ventless at Charlotte, did leave me with the
impression that I wanted certain informational and educational freedom within
our industry. However, this freedom can also be exercised thru forums like
this, though trade magazines (when they are feeling bold), and thru the
normal channels of dealer and manufacturer communication.
As it is, the general educational part of the HEARTH program has already
been passed to HPA...I think it's just the certification and testing part
that's on the table now.
I would also feel better if there were representatives from the retail level
helping to spec, create and implement any eduational programs.Call me skeptical,
but I don't want to be told what to learn by a group consisiting of mostly
manufacturers. Based on my experience, there is more product and real world
knowledge existing within the retailer group in our org, than is in the
manufacturing side.
Goodnight to all, and thanks for listening and posting....
Craig Issod [email protected]
Hearth Digest 6/13/96
Greetings to the list..have just returned from Disney World....Had a good
time, but more importantly learned a few things...Most important of all
is that imagination and creativity are the driving forces of our journey
into the future...
In this issue:
1. HPA and Hearth, Rumor
2. hpa vs hearth
3. Warranty
4. Response to Warranty
1. HPA and Hearth, Rumor
From: [email protected] (jonathan a. harman)
Subject: HPA and Hearth, Rumor
Craig,
The first thing that comes to mind is: Why re-invent the wheel?
Why would HPA want to add another burden to its budget? Does someone need
a job? If there are two certifications available, will some states want
HPA only and others want Hearth only? Will this eventually get to the county
level? This could be a potential pain in the butt and wallet for the specialty
retailer.
If I remember correctly, our industry was divided into to trade organizations
(Wood Energy Institute and ....????). They grew up and became the Hearth
Products Association. Why would the HPA suggest a step backwards?
I hope I read this wrong or I am dreaming. Last thing our industry needs
is to be torn apart form inside itself. The tree-huggers are bad enough.
RUMOR:
I heard that room vented heaters are going to be leagal in California by
May next year. Is there any truth to this?
Once again, Craig thanks for your efforts.
Jon ________________________________
2. hpa vs hearth
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 96 18:00:57 UT From: "PAT MARTIN" <[email protected]>
To: [email protected] Subject: hpa vs hearth
I talked to Carter yesterday and he told me that it basically came down
to the way Hearth wanted to distribute resources within the HPA. The HPA
has already hired an education director so it looks like the HPA is going
to have its own certification proccess.
I am by no means an expert but I would expect that Hearth is going to have
serious problems unless they at least mend the fences a little. As someone
who would be looking for a "certification" I can tell you that
I would not get that certification unless it is reconized by the HPA.
Pat Martin
3.Warranty
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 96 18:00:16 UT From: "John Wallace" <[email protected]>
Subject: Warranty
I need some feedback. Please! With the coming of gas products along with
pellet products. There is more & more money going out for warranty work
and less coming back to the dealers. We try to pre-burn almost all gas &
pellet products before they are installed. There is still more warranty
work than I think there should be.
When most manufacturers state on the back of their "Warranty"
form that they cover labor and parts for 12 months. I think that is miss
leading, in fact most (not all ) only cover a portion of the labor, and
expect the dealer to pick up the remainder.
I think that the manufacturers should put in writing what they will pay
on each service call. ie $35.00 for !!!!!! , $20.00 for !!!!!!, or state
that they only cover a portion of the labor. Then it would be up to the
dealer to fill in the blanks.
We try to cover this with each sale, we also offer an extended labor warranty
pkg. Some take it and some don't.
Please I need feed-back and any help I can get. Am I the only dealer with
this concern. ________________________ 4. Response to Warranty From Craig
Issod, [email protected]
In the message above, John Wallace States:\
>Am I the only dealer with this >concern. John, I can assure you that
you are not the only dealer with this concern. Most of the manufacturers
I have dealt with do not cover their written warranties in (my humble opinion)
the proper matter. This includes some of the biggest names in the industry,
such as Peterson Logs, Temco, Travis and others.
Peterson , for example, claims :We NEVER pay any labor of any type for replacement
of defective parts ...quite a warranty from the oldest manufacturer of logs
! If I told this to a customer previous to their purchase, I would never
make a sale...so, of course we end up eating all the service calles. Temco
also does not pay for any labor, service calls, etc...In the 12 years I
have done business with them, I have yet to collect any money for our service.
They do replace the parts, and or units that are bad without too much trouble.
Luckily for us, the great margins we receive on the product allow us to
build-in a service factor. Travis does have a labor schedule, but always
seems reluctant to cover the actual REAL cost of such repairs...To their
credit --we don't have hardly any problems...so this has never become an
issue...but if they ever do have a rash of field problems, I hope they will
take a hint from VC.
In my experience, Vermont Castings is King of the Hill when it comes to
proper warranty reimbursement. They handle each dealer EXACTLY AS THE DEALERS'
CUSTOMER WOULD EXPECT TO BE HANDLED..it's really very simple, being tight
with warranty money and credits adds insult to injury to both the dealer
and the end user. Any manufacturer that can not see this clearly is stuck
in an old way of thinking.
Hearthstone has also been good covering the small problems we have experienced.
Would love to hear thoughts from both the makers and dealers out there -
this is an important issue...
Hearth Digest 6/14
In this issue:
1. FREE Email
2. VC-CFM merger complete - things heating up !
1. Jon, from Hearthside in California, has found a new service which offers
FREE EMAIL accounts to those who could care less about web access. This
is a perfect way to get your friends wired. Here is the info:
"It requires: 386 or higher, windows 3.1 or higher, 4MB ram, 10MB disk
space, 3.5" floppy drive, VGA monitor (SVGA recommended), 2400-baud
modem (9600 recommended). A copy of thier software can be requested by calling
1(800) 654-JUNO or send it to a friend by e-mailing [email protected]. They
also have a web page but I'm not sure of the address. It is probably www.juno.com
I would guess."
2. Vermont Castings Merger Complete...Dealers in a tizzy about CFM-VC-Majestic
policies (by Craig Issod, [email protected])
Vermont Castings and CFM have completed their merger.
Just when I thought it was safe to go back in the water ! Disturbing news
out of Canada..... According to various sources, VC has taken a number of
steps which may compromise the interests of their specialty dealers. Please
keep in mind that this is currently "rumor". That said, here's
the communication:
1. VC has fired all their reps in Canada, giving the line to their CFM reps.
2. All CFM dealers in Canada, including HVAC etc., have been informed that
they will have access to the entire VC line, including wood products.
According to these various sources, VC also intends to do the same thing
in the US, except it would be Majestic instead of CFM that receives the
nod.
According to sources:
"This represents a complete departure from the promise made by VC to
their dealer network. Both Dennis Dillion (VC) and Colin Adamson (CFM) have
previouly stated that there would be no changes to the existing VC dealer
network."
As both a dealer and "reporter" , I have different opinions about
the above. For instance, I am currently remodeling my store, and printing
new catalogs, building new displays and creating new signs. Without the
proper communication, I am unsure how much "space" to give VC.
The toughtest part is not just the fact that others can/will sell VC ...but
that I will be making a smaller % on many of the items than they do. A shop
like ours has a much higher overhead (%) than a "builder wholesaler".,
and we cannot survive on 30% margins...in fact, we have averaged close to
40% for the past 5 years !
As far as honesty, morality, ethics, etc....there are many people who throw
this stuff out the window when millions of $$ are involved. I would say
we all do this to a degree...Altho I hated the expression, my Dad used to
say" Craig, we're all whores (sorry ladies), we just have different
prices !"..( I still winch when I repeat this).
I'd like to think it isn't so, but ask yourself what you would do for 1
million $$$, for 2 million $$, etc.
The tough thing in life is to balance this against factors like "Do
I sleep well at night?" - "Am I truly Happy" - "Can
I stand 100% behind what I say?" and of course the famous line from
the movie Wall Street "How many Yachts can you water-ski behind?"
Is VC/CFM wrong to take these actions ? It surely is not my position to
put a judgement on this...after all, they apparantly did not ever do too
well using "the old way" of distribution. I would only ask them
to be honest and to share any new opportunities with their long-term customers.
Responses from the dealers involved and VC-CFM-MAJESTIC are welcomed. You
can post to the list([email protected]) or to me privately ([email protected])
_______________________________________________
end of digest
Hearth Digest 6/16/96
In this issue:
1. A reps spin on Warranty Matters
2. HPA and Hearth - Why can't we all get along ?
First, a short welcome to all the new members on the list. The list is now
at 170 folks and growing....Also, many issues are read by multiple folks
so the word gets around pretty good.
Some reminders ...The free "members only" area of HearthNet at
http://hearth.com/news/club.html contains the charter and archives for this
list, as well as lots of interesting articles, classified section, etc.
This is a password restricted area - use username:hearth passwprd:fire
to access these files.
Also, a description of some of our commercial services can be found at http://hearth.com/eight.html
1. From: [email protected] Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 08:56:33 -0400 To: [email protected]
Subject: My spin on the warranty debate
As a rep. I guess I am destined to look at issues from both sides to see
what is best for the retailer and still keep the manufacturer happy.
As usual there are parites on both sides who abuse any situation. Most of
the time the result of these abuses are taken out on NEXT warranty situation
that dealer or manufacturer faces. A dealer of mine just submitted a bill
for $96.00 per hour because the manufactuer stated labor would be covered.
The issue was the placement of a comma in the warranty statement and they
listed the labor rate on a seperate sheet from the warranty statement!
Who covers the service call when you discover the problem is not a factory
defect? Most of the time sooting is a simple balance of gas and air. Manufacturer's
preset their stoves for typical installations but each situation can be
different. A thermostat wire gets a "nick" in it which causes
the unit to shut down once in a while. After several years of selling gas
appliances, I would guess that the majority of service calls I have been
involved with for my dealers HAVE NOT been factory defects. However in each
situation, the manufaturer was expected to pay the way.
My personal feeling is that the solution is contained in one word...EDUCATION.
The dealers and installers who truly know and understand gas products are
the guys who seem to submit the most reasonable claims. Gas appliances require
a lot of knowledge to install and trouble shoot correctly. When we started
with them most of the manufactueres didn't have the expertise. Now they
are getting up to speed but dealers and reps. now need to learn what we
are doing. Once the eduaction process is underway, the disputes seem to
get smaller and smaller. Both sides seem to understand the situation better
and warranty claims are much easier to swallow.
The bottom line is that if you read just about any warranty carefully...anything
that can go wrong isn't covered! It relies on a relationship between the
dealer and the manufacturer where both parties are concerned for the other.
It comes back to two things. What is the difference between a specialty
retailer and a mass merchant??? Service is one key we can provide that the
mass merchants ignore. Buy your products from manufacturer's that you know
will give you the followup support you need. A pretty flame or a price that
is $50.00 less means nothing if that support is missing.
Rick Vlahos Creative Classics [email protected]
______________________________________
2.From: [email protected] Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 18:08:17 -0400 To: [email protected]
Subject: Hpa/Hearth
After reading both press releases, I am confused. Why does the HPA Board
feel that it needs to re-invent the wheel? (If it's not broken, why fix
it?) If the Hearth Board has not moved fast enough as far as the HPA Staff
and Board is concerned, wouldn't it be a good idea to set a time line for
both entities to follow that is equitable to both sides? IF there is some
other legitimate concern on behalf of the HPA staff and B.O.D., let's hear
them. Lets put the real cards on the table and address those points. If
it is simply for the reasons listed on the press release, they are not critical
enough to abandon a relationship that has worked and worked well for many
years. Speaking as someone who has been Certified by Wherf and Hearth for
13 years, I am very dismayed at this turn of events! I would expect the
HPA staff and B.O.D. to create a cohesive relationship instead of trying
to tear it apart. This industry is fragile enough as is, in-house fighting
will cripple us faster.
I truly do not believe HPA needs to be taking on redoing tasks that have
been handled by Hearth quite well for many years. Joining forces is one
thing, rewriting the book, is ridiculous! I think our dues monies can be
much better spent. Now is not the time to start backtracking. To HPA staff,
I ask, Where is the firewright program that was supposed to be out last
fall, then March, and now may only possibly be out in August?
Hearth Digest 6/18/96
1. Ventless Legal in California
From: [email protected] (John David Crouch) Subject: Re: Hearth Digest
6/13/96 To: [email protected] (Craig Issod)
>June 13,1006 RUMOR: > >I heard that room vented heaters are going
to be leagal in California by May >next year. Is there any truth to this?
> >Once again, Craig thanks for your efforts. > >Jon
From: John Crouch, HPA, Director of Government Affairs To: Hearth Digest
List RE: Vent Free Legeslation in California
The Vent Free Alliance (and it's predisesor organization, the GAMA Vent
Free Task Force), have sponsored legeslation in California for the last
three sessions, in an attempt to overturn a old law outlawing Vent Free
products in this state. The law's roots go back to a history of portable
vent free devices, especially in the 1930's, and especially in the LA area.
This year's bill, Senate Bill 798, has had the most success, in fact it
passed it's last legeslative hurdle last thursday. It is on it's way to
the Governor for his signature.
While the bill does legalize Vent-Free appliances, it does not do so automatically,
but rather contains four provisions that all must be met, prior to the sale
of these appliances. They are:
1)Department of Housing and Community Development and the Department of
Health Services must consider and develop standards for "natural gas
unvented decorative gas logs and fireplaces" provided the cost of developing
standards does not exceed $145,000.
2) Unvented fireplaces meet the standards developed by these agencies.
3) The California Building Standards Comission adopts the standard as part
of the California Building Standards Code.
4) Unvented heaters are listed by an agency approved by Health Services.
5) Installation of the unvented fireplaces must be in accordance with the
Cal Building Standards Code.
Another important note is that the legeslative analyst indicated that the
agencies estimate that it will cost over $400,000 to develope the standards,
yet the bill caps the cost of the regulation at $145,000. This may mean
a supplimental appropreation next year, or some other form of funding.
Bottom Line? Even though the bill will proably be signed this month, it
is far too early to begin writing orders.
Getting a commercial bill like this passed is always difficult, and the
Vent Free Task Force should be commended for this. There is still a lot
of work to be done on this issue in this state.
For those of you using AOL, the four points above where almost verbatum
from SEN.CA.GOV. I assume this is avalible on the WEB as well.
If any HPA members have questions about this process, I am always avalible
to answer questions.
John Crouch [email protected] _____________________________ end of
Digest This Month's List Sponsored by LongLeaf Lighter Company Producers
of the finest Fatwood Kindling Dealer and distributor Inquiries Welcome
Visit our Web Site at http://hearth.com/longleaf
:Hearth Digest 6/19/96
1. HPA Education Director on FIREWRIGHT
2. Note on above
To: [email protected] MIME-Version: 1.0
From: SUSAN KALISH <[email protected]>
Subject: FireWright Training Program Date: Wed, 19 Jun 96 09:55:29 PDT
The expected fulfillment date of the FireWright training program is the
beginning of August. Though a delivery date of mid-May was given initially,
as HPA's new education director I wanted to ensure that the program met
with HPA's and my quality standards. I have been working closely with the
parties involved to complete this project - I look forward to getting this
exciting product in the hands of hearth product dealers, distributors and
manufacturers!
In addition to working with FireWright, I have been working with HPA's Education
Committee to develop the educational sessions for EXPO '97, as well as developing
ideas for longer term dealer education programs and products. I have been
visiting hearth product dealers to talk with them about their needs. Plus,
I have been researching resources which will be helpful in the creation
of education programs.
The results of the needs assessments conducted at EXPO '96 provided HPA
with a superb base of information from which to begin a long term education
plan. However, I also welcome your input. If you have suggestions or programs
or products, recommendations for speakers or trainers, would like me to
visit your location, or would just like to chat, I can be reached at HPA,
703-522-0086. My Internet address at HPA is [email protected].
I look forward to hearing from you. _________________________________________________________________
2. About Firewright (From Craig Issod, [email protected])
Kudos to Susan for her explaination of the status of Firewright..this is
the stuff we need to know !
Also, as I understand it, FIREWRIGHT is a very good deal for HPA members,
being as it was mostly financed by the Gas Industry (someone correct me
if I'm wrong)... I usually don't look a gift horse in the mouth.
After looking a the HPA budget in the last HPA NEWS, I'm surprised at how
small their budget really is..the total budget is equal to about the revenues
of our two stores ! So, any time they can do more with less, and uphold
the correct standards while doing so, I'm for it !
OH ! and one other thing, Susan - maybe you should explain what Firewright
is, cause many members (including me) don't know exactly what the deal is
!
Subject: Hearth Digest 6/21/96
1. Concern about Unvented in Ca.
2. Advice for the Retailer
3.New Bulletin Board for Communications
4. Firewright Program - Description
1. Concern about Unvented in Ca
From: [email protected] (ward, brad) Subject: unvented
Is anyone else in California concerned about having unvented products? Not
because of the mass merchandisers selling them, but from a health stand
point? Would any of you have them in your own homes? Around your family?
I received a form letter today asking me to write to Governor Wilson to
sign SB 794? into law. I wrote a negative letter to the Governor asking
him to veto the bill. I ask that all of you who worry about unvented product,
from a health stand point, to write to him also. Don't do it because the
mass merchants will take sales away, but because in the long run, the product
itself will take sales away. Dan Melcom was going to do a story on unvented
product and I have yet to see it. I don't know if he didn't have the courage
to publish it, I didn't see it, or if the big boys killed it. We have long
been a reactive industry, make the sales now and worry about things later.
This is one product that, in my opinion, we need to be proactive on. It
is a product that will so turn the public against us, as they die from related
illnesses, that we may never recover. Will we end-up with the same philosophy
as the tobacco? Remember it's not the cigerettes that kills people, it's
the cancer and emphysema that kills people. If you would not have these
products in your home, you have the opportunity now to stop it from going
into less educated people's homes.
___________________________
2. Advice for the Retailer
From: [email protected] (Jonathan A Harman)
I would like to share some advice with all the specialty retailers. I received
this advice from someone who I highly respect and has been in the industry
for a lot of years.
The advice is so simple you'll probably say " no, duh". I feel
it goes hand in hand with the power of the purchase order and is something
we all need to remember.
The advice: "If a supplier or manufacturer is not willing to work with
you, YOU DON'T NEED THEM".
Simple......."no, duh". I've been applying that advice for the
last couple of years and have focused our product line and simplified our
operation. I've form stronger ties with the manufacturers and suppliers
that want my business (in other words will work with me in all situations)
and that have shown their support for the specialty hearth products retailer.
This is something we all need to do.
With the above in mind, I would like to publicly thank those suppliers and
manufacturers that have gone above and beyond the call of duty:
Everyone in the "Ivory Tower", Travis Industries, everyone at
Sunset Fireplace Fixtures, and everyone at Robert H. Peterson. If any of
you have problems with these, call them and patch things up. These people
have earned and deserve our support.
A special thanks needs to go to the following: NHC, Inc., Mike and Mary
at Vermont Castings, Ray and Ursula Oien (the Travis reps), and Vogelzang.
I suppose this is kind of childish, but those people all deserved a public
thanking.
To sum this post up: Support those that want the specialty shops business
and that make our business lives easier.
Jon, The Hearthside ______________________________
3.New Bulletin Board for Communications
To: [email protected]
From: [email protected]
Subject: HPA & THE FUTURE ... EDI???
North Central Hearth Products Association has started..... in a stumbling
attempt....... a web-board where you can share ideas about the future of
communications in our industry using some forms of commonality such as EDI
or other simple means of saving time and money with simple common sense....
We do not want to monopolize the value of HearthList with just the one subject
of communication advances. We will of course keep the List up to date but
we do not want to take away from it's many other values with this one all
excompassing subject. So NCHPA has donated a web-board for our use.
Did you know that you can request VC price sheets on Excell (which is traslatable
to Lotus or almost any spread sheet we might use)...How much data entry
time did you just save by requesting that little 3 1/2" PIECE OF PLASTIC?.
Majestic/Insta Flame offers their monster price sheets on Excell as well....just
for the asking. Plug in your discountfactorsor margins desires and presto
its done......And with a little more proding John Davis will get off center
and we will begin to see our promised Dura Vent price sheets on 3 1/2"
discs in ASCII format...... why ASCII I haven't figured out but I am not
complaining....... the translation time will be a lot less than the present
entry time....... and that is just a start. If we add up just those dollars
of entry time saved>>>>>> (God forbid ...we may save enough
money to hire Jonathan Winters again to do somemore talking houses for FireWorks)
}:-)
We are not inventing anything new here... infact all we are doing is following
the successful tracks of other industries that have begun to benfit from
working togther from manufacturer thru distribututor to dealer. Visit http://www.premenos.com.
a site just recomended to me by john crouch....... It should blow most of
us away..... The means are now begining to be at our deisposal.... it is
how we will use them or dispose of them that is important. We have to walk
first and remember to bring along as many as we can to keep ourselves strong
...but we must move forward. We may never have our own private sataliye
with central contrlled downlinks from manufacturer, to distributioon site
to cash register like Wallmart or Sam's Club ..... but we can take some
benefits to the bank.
In the next few weeks NCHPA will be sending out a questionaire to its members
to better understand the level of computer useage and the computer knowledge
and future plans our membership has. We feel it is one of the responsibilities
of the NCHPA board to educate our members and improve their computer communications.
Our members have asked us to do so and we will follow thru with this promise.
We would like to encourage other Affiliates or Associations of HPA to do
the same thing with their membership. I would like to collect this data
through the NCHPA Web-Board at http://www.weyrkeep.com/wwwboard/wwwboard.html
>>> or at http://www.weyrkeep.com/wwwboard/messages/23.html >>>>>>>>
I will work that out in the next couple of days....... I HOPE..... Since
this web-board site is very new it will have it's share of problems and
blunders we will have to fix. Also at this time please remember that the
purpose of this site is specific to communication improvement within the
HPA, its Affiliates, Associations and members. . The site is presently open
to any one that stumbles across it. If this becomes a problem we will set
up a security codes to limit access to HPA , Associates and other value
added members only. For now we will leave it open to lost hearts in Seatle
as well as the brain trusts of Medford.
Ramble on............. Ken Fulgione ____________________________ Visit the
Emporium http://www.weyrkeep.com http://www.hearth.com/directfire ___________________________
~\!|!/~ (Q * ) -----------ooO~(_)~Ooo----------------- ////||\\\\ Dragons
Breathe Best Together Forge a Stronger Fire ===========================
____________________________________
4. Firewright Program - Description
To: [email protected] MIME-Version: 1.0
From: SUSAN KALISH <[email protected]>
Subject: FireWright Training Program Date: Fri, 21 Jun 96 09:16:55 PDT
Thanks, Craig, for the opportunity to remind everyone about HPA's FireWright
training program.
The program is a training tool consisting of a workbook and accompanying
videotape. FireWright was designed to provide fundamental information on
installing and troubleshooting gas hearth appliances. The workbook is filled
with illustrations, color photos and charts about gas hearth products and
explains the issues related to installing and troubleshooting the appliances.
The videotape mirrors the information provided in the workbook, showing
the actual operation of the appliances, and reinforcing the material covered
in the workbook. The training program can be used as a self-study program
or in a classroom setting.
FireWright represents HPA's first step toward the goal of increasing the
technical knowledge level of hearth industry technicians in order to make
installation and service personnel more competitive in today's market.
HPA has a wonderful brochure which describes the program and includes an
order form. I plan a mailing of the brochure shortly. The instructions and
mailing labels for those who placed their orders previously have already
been prepared, so as soon as the books and tapes are delivered the orders
will be filled.
Please contact me if you have any questions.
____________________________________________ Send Posts to [email protected]
end of digest
This Month's List Sponsored by LongLeaf Lighter Company Producers of the
finest Fatwood Kindling Dealer and distributor Inquiries Welcome Visit our
Web Site at http://hearth.com/longleaf
Hearth Digest 6/22/96
1. Comment on EDI, Communication, Bulletin Boards, etc.
2. Will not Sell Ventless
1. Comment on EDI, Communication, Bulletin Boards, etc.Craig Issod ([email protected])
says:
> [email protected] said:
>North Central Hearth Products Association has started..... in a stumbling
>attempt....... a web-board where you can share ideas about the future
of >communications in our industry using some forms of commonality such
as EDI
Craig Issod adds : From the reading I do, it appears that the original concept
of EDI will be superceded by the internet. That is, the same electronic
data exchange services will cost much less to do over the internet .. and
give the companies more complete control over the process. The dealer will
not have to dial a seperate phone number...just hook right in over a TCP
connection.
For instance, a hearth manufacturer could easily set up a web site (with
limited access) that customers could
1. Check inventory
2. Check status of orders
3. Place orders
4. Download documents, price list, manuals
5. Find answers to service questions
and much more. Check out Federal Express or UPS's site...yes, they know
exactly where your package is ! - quite a deal for a few bucks shipping
charges...!
Also, I've considered setting up a number of Bulletin Boards, but am concerned
that the online "hearth" population is still too small...Without
enough participants, a good dialog will be tough. I envision replacing this
list someday with a group of bulletin boards...each with different topics.
We will need aprox. 1000 online members to do a good job at this. Also the
BB's must be a lot more "user friendly" than much of the current
crop...please check out "The Salon" for a model which I intend
to use for the boards....http://eweb06.online.apple.com/webx - By the way,
this site is running on a Macintosh WWW server....
2. Will not Sell Ventless
From: [email protected] Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 17:32:54 -0400 To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Hearth Digest 6/21/96
In a message dated 96-06-21 15:38:08 EDT, you write:
>1. Concern about Unvented in Ca
I would have to agree with Brad. In my opinion ANYTHING that burns should
be vented outside. Every time I have slept in a house with gas heat I wake
up feeling lousy..headache, etc...and these are vented systems with no spillage
and I have had a humidifier going. The "experts" can say all they
want about unvented ..how safe it is ..blah blah blah...They will NEVER
be installed in my home and, if I can help it, in any of my customers homes.
If my opinion puts me on someone's black list so be it! My consolation will
be the number of my customers and would be customers whose lives I have
saved. FLAME AWAY!
Phil Mace The Lucky Sweeps
Send Posts to [email protected]
end of digest
Hearth Digest 6/22/96
In this issue:
1. Good Things about Ventless
2. Flame wars ?
1. In a message dated 96-06-21 15:38:08 EDT, > [email protected] mwrites:
> > >1. Concern about Unvented in Ca > > I would have to
agree with Brad. In my opinion ANYTHING that burns should be > vented
outside. Every time I have slept in a house with gas heat I wake up >
feeling lousy..headache, etc...and these are vented systems with no spillage
> and I have had a humidifier going. The "experts" can say
all they want about > unvented ..how safe it is ..blah blah blah...They
will NEVER be installed in > my home and, if I can help it, in any of
my customers homes. If my opinion > puts me on someone's black list so
be it! My consolation will be the number > of my customers and would
be customers whose lives I have saved. FLAME AWAY! > > Phil Mace >
The Lucky Sweeps
[email protected] replies:
I have sold unvented product in Texas for the past 12 years, and my father
has been associated with the unvented space heater industry since 1964.
We have used unvented space heaters in our homes for virtually all of our
lives, and never had a problem. We primarily use them as suplementary heat
in those areas where central heating is not too effective (ie - add on rooms,
rooms with two or three walls exposed to the outside, etc). I have sold
thousands of unvented space heaters and have never had a single problem.
My days date back to before ODS (oxygen depletion sensors) were required,
but I do think that ODS are a positive addition to unvented product (even
though I never experienced problems with unvented heaters in days prior
to ODS). Current ODS equipped space heaters and gas logs produce very low
levels of noxious fumes...if you can smell them or feel the effects, you
either are not using them correctly, or have a defective product. Instructions
tell you to allow one square inch of ventilation for every 1,000 btu of
your product (a 20,000 btu heater requires a 20" wide window to be
cracked 1"). In Texas, where houses (for the most part) are not air
tight, we feel no effects without cracking a window. I am not trying to
convince those of you who have made up your minds about unvented product
to try them...I realize that it would be an effort in vein, however those
of you who have never experienced unvented products first hand should refrain
from flaming a product which you obviously know very little about. My positive
experiences have taught me that unvented products are not only safe, but
an affordable way for lower income families to heat their homes. To many
of us, unvented products are a large portion of our sales. Our customers
in vented products are primarily middle to upper income, but unvented customers
are from all income groups. We enjoy the ability to offer quality products
to all income groups, not just middle to upper income families. FOR THE
RECORD, I use a Rinnai Tropic vent free gas space heater in my den and I
enjoy it. I have four (soon to be five) children, and have no problem with
it. I will continue using, selling, and promoting the wonderful quality
vent-free products on the market today. I would like to add that I test
all products I sell, and do not use a lot of "johnny come lately"
vent free products until I know first hand that the manufacturer has taken
the time to learn how to make safe, quality products. I will list the products
that I know first hand are safe, quality products for those interested.
I will also forward the manufacturers phone numbers to any interested dealers.
Rinnai Gas Space Heaters Vanguard (Desa International) space heaters and
logs Martin Industries gas space heaters and logs The Dearborn Co. gas space
heaters and logs
All of the above companies have been in the business of providing quality
space heaters and gas logs for many years and in my opinion are the best.
(Above list not in any particular order)
Sincerely,
Bob Rooke President, FT. Worth Hearth & Home, Inc.
Not affiliated with any of the above manufacturers except as a dealer. And
PROUD to be!
[email protected]
2. Flame wars ?
Craig Issod ([email protected]) says: OK, we've heard both sides of the
story about unvented. As usual, the truth probably lies somewhere in between.
While folks are not dropping dead from unvented, we cannot say that there
have been no problems either. In fact, one of the companies mentioned told
me they have a department that concerns themselves with nothing more than
settling unvented claims (soot damage, repainting, etc.)... Other dealers
and companies have also told me that problems are occuring in the field.
Of course, problems occur with vented units also (I have had some) and with
direct vents, etc.
So, my goal is to keep this forum as informational as possible, and to avoid
"flame wars" and other such exchanges...mind you, neither of the
posts above are "flames", but if a number of responses THAT CONTAINED
LITTLE OR NO FACTS showed up, I might hesitate to post them.
So, when posting, please try to present both facts and opinion that would
be of use to all the readers of the list.
And, if you really want to flame someone..email then directly !
_____________________________________________________ Send Posts to [email protected]
end of digest
Hearth Digest 6/24/96 C
IN this issue:
1. Efforts on gas safety
To: [email protected] From: [email protected] Subject: Explosion
Just remember Mr. Hearth Shop People ..... we are not alone out there. Some
efforts are being made and some disasters are still afoot.... The following
is just a copy of some talk over the local Chimney Sweeps List. It seems
we all share the rush to market problems in the field. The manufacturers
will clean it up as we make them pay for the repairs we need to service
and by our refusal to promote unsafe product.
>From: GRANT DARROW <[email protected]> >Subject: Explosion
>To: Multiple recipients of list CHIMNEYS-L
>Just got back from three days up at Alladin Steel products (Quadrafire)
>going over new products, in particular gas. Its great having free access
to >the entire crew from Nick and Dan in the lab down to the guy that
cuts the >firebrick for their wood stoves in the plant. > >Dan
and Nick blew up a gas stove for us while we where there, which resulted
>in shrapnel embedded in the doors and walls and blew the cap 20 some
feet >into the air ripping a hole in the insulation at the ceiling. They
video >taped this in slow motion the day we got there. > >What
these guys demostrated is what can happen with a Direct vent gas stove >when
there isn't an explosion door in the stove design, slow drop out time >and
a homeowner that hits the igniter with out purging the stove. > >During
my service calls this year I've been clocking the drop out time on >the
gas stoves I encounter, in particular some of my competitor's, sorry I >can't
mention names. I've been alarmed at drop out times of up to 4 and a >half
minutes!!! For those of you not framiliar with this, drop out is when a
>gas valve shutsoff the flow of gas after the pilot light is extinguished.
>Until it drops out the pilot is spilling gas into the stove. > >Valve
manufacturers generally specify drop out within a millivolt range of >say
120-30mv. However, thermopiles can store up enough heat to continue to >generate
30 mv for an awful long time. people like David Pomeroy say 2-3 >minutes
is normal, but 4 1/2 minutes!! > >An explosion door is simply a weighted
door which will open and relieve >pressure in the event of an explosion.
Dan and Nick clamped the explosion >doors shut and plugged the exhaust
vent. They lit the stove and allowed it >to run until the flame lifted
off the burner and extinguished itself. After >about 30 seconds they
snapped the piezo simulating a homeowner trying to >relit the stove.
BAM!!! > >The major point Dan was making is the importance of following
the >manufacturers venting instructions. Improperly installed Direct
vent will >cause flame lift and shut down and improperly built stoves
are bombs. > >You Folks out east are going to see gas coming in over
the next 5years like >and invading horde of nomads out of the west, the
US gas market is the >largest in the world and is being targeted by gas
appliance companies all >over the world. One foriegn manufacturer saw
an 80% increase in gas >appliance sales in the Pacific Northwest in one
year!! > >willieweep > > alias g darrow
____________________________ Visit the Emporium http://www.weyrkeep.com
http://www.hearth.com/directfire ___________________________ ~\!|!/~ (Q
* ) -----------ooO~(_)~Ooo----------------- ////||\\\\ Dragons Breathe Best
Together Forge a Stronger Fire ===========================
Send Posts to [email protected]
end of digest
Hearth Digest 6/26/96
In this issue:
1. QuadraFire cleaner than ever ..
2. Direct Sales on the NET
3. Comment on direct sales
1. QuadraFire cleaner than ever ..
From: Quadrafire <[email protected]> Organization: Aladdin Steel
Products Subject: Quadrafire retestin
Good news from Quadrafire
As some of you might know, our 4300 series wood stove was recently involved
in a scandal involving falsification of test report numbers along with six
other manufactures. Since the validity of our grams per hour rating was
in question, we were required to retest the stove to confirm our original
2.5 grams per hour rating.
Well, the good news is: not only did the 4300 meet the original rating,
it BEAT IT!!! We are proud to announce that the Quadrafire 4300 series wood
burning appliances will be rated at 2.1 grams per hour, one of the cleanest
in the industry.
These figures confirm what most of you already know- We thank you for your
patience during this retesting period, and hope that these results strengthen
your confidence in Aladdin Steel Products,Inc. and our Quadrafire line of
hearth appliances.
Aladdin Steel Prod., Inc.
2. Direct Sales on the Net
From: Roger Sanders <[email protected]> MIME-Version: 1.0 To:
Craig Issod <[email protected]> Subject: Direct sales over the
net
How about bringing back an old issue with some new information that hearth
web surfers will interested in. The issue is: How should the hearth industry
handle hearth sales over the internet?
The Ducane Company, a leading BBQ manufacturer has resolved the problem
for them. They have just said, in effect, that the internet cannot be used
to direct sell Ducanes because there is no way to properly maintain, support
and service their BBQs if uncontrolled sales go on into areas by dealers
discounting BBQs into other areas where those dealers don't have to provide
the service and warranty support.
They specifically said on June 25,1996 to their distributors about retailer
internet direct sales that: "This affects the good name of Ducane and
undermines the service and warranty responsibilities you have as a distributor
and are compensated for through your margins."
Ducane says that they will terminate distributor relationships if their
distributors do not control their dealers. If a dealer does not comply,
the distributor is directed to "discontinue shipping to him".
This might be the best policy for hearth appliance manufacturers to follow.
God only knows that we have 10 times the service and warranty problems with
stoves than with BBQs.
How about it you stove manufacturers, will you support and control your
retailer network like Ducane is doing?
_______________________________
3. Comment on Direct Sales (above)
Craig Issod ([email protected]) says:
Over the past year, both myself and some of my clients have experimented
with direct sales on the internet. A lot of information was gotten from
these test markets..but the summary is: It surely COULD be done profitably.
Not that any tom,dick or harry could do it, it would take some marketing
muscle and savvy, but the model is there. If anyone wants more info on these
models, email me personally.
Many firms, such as Lehmans, Plow and Hearth and Real Goods are already
selling hearth products by Direct Mail, and their customers are satisfied.
What is the difference on the Internet? The Hearth Business started with
direct mail (VC) , continued (CDW), and at this point in time probably has
a LACK of direct marketing. I have often thought of going "big time"
into the mail-order hearth business, but I'm too conservative to blow a
couple hundred grand getting started.
Either way, I don't think that direct mail or net sales of hearth products
represent a valid threat to retail stores. Software, Audio CD's, etc...are
being sold by the millions if $$ on the net, but our business does not translate
as well to the net.
Maybe when we can display full-motion video of the different gas logs burnings,
and then refer the customers (by videophone) to their local installer (grin)
!
I do appreciate hearing the input of how manufacturers feel about such efforts.
Travis, for instance, has suggested that they frown upon direct net sales.....they
feel their dealer base is valuable and strong... I respect their views,
and as a dealer will not "push" their product on the net FOR DIRECT
SALES. I still feature it on my site, and have gotten local (and a bit extended)
sales from it. After all, I'm old fashioned - if it's not a win-win situation,
I'm not into it.
I like this suggestion much better than the FORCE approach that Ducane has
choosen. I even doubt that Ducanes edict would stand up to the law..if taken
that far. ____________________________________________________________________________________
Send Posts to [email protected]
end of digest
Hearth Digest 6/29/96
1.Suggested Purchase order Boilerplate ?
2. VC/CFM Article/Hearth and Home
1. Suggested Purchase order Boilerplate ?
From: Roger Sanders <[email protected]> MIME-Version: 1.0 To:
Craig Issod <[email protected]> Subject: Questionare
Here's a proposed questionare for the HearthNet. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PROPOSED HEARTH RETAILER QUESTIONARE
CURRENT HEARTH RETAILER PURCHASE ORDERS PROVIDE NO RECOURSE AT ALL IF PROBLEMS
CAUSED BY THE MANUFACTURER DEVELOP IN ORDERING, SHIPPING, INSTALLING OR
OPERATING THEIR PRODUCTS. SHOULD OUR PURCHASE ORDERS INCLUDE "BOILERPLATE"
TERMS AND CONDITIONS THAT GIVE HEARTH RETAILERS SPECIFIC RIGHTS, IF PROBLEMS
DEVELOP? (THE BOILERPLATE WOULD HAVE TO TAKE PRECIDENCE OVER ANY "DEALER
AGREEMENTS") IF SO, SHOULD THE FOLLOWING ISSUES BE ADDRESSED IN THE
"BOILERPLATE" WORDING TO GIVE HEARTH RETAILERS RECOURSE?
DEALERSHIP NAME _______________________________
1. Multiple service calls where service personnel can't fix the problems
and the manufacturer doesn't have the solution. Yes ____ No _____
2. Replacement of a "lemon" appliance in order to keep the customer
happy. Who should pay for the replacement stove? Who should take the loss
on sale of the used stove (if sellable) ? Yes ____ No ___
3. Hidden freight damage (defective packaging design) that freight companys
will not cover because it was in the warehouse for a few months before careful
inspection. Yes ____ No _____
4. Warranty Claims that don't get processed within 30 days. Questions aren't
asked by the manufacturer until several months after work was done. Warranty
claims that aren't applied to dealer's account, even though they were "approved".
Yes ____ No _____
5. Coop that doesn't get processed within 30 days. Credits that don't get
applied to the account even though the Coop was approved. Yes ____ No _____
6. Purchase Orders that are given to manufacturers and are then never acknowledged
as have been received. Yes ____ No _____
7. Purchase Orders that are given to manufacturers, but their shipping dates
are never acknowledged. This makes it impossible to schedule installations
unless dealers significantly increase inventory to always have every version
on hand. Yes ____ No _____
8. Back Orders that have no projected delivery dates. Yes ____ No _____
9. Design defects that are not considered a warranty problem because there
are no defects in materials or workmanship. Yes ____ No _____
10. Unavailable (or long delivery schedule) replacement parts for failed
appliances . Yes ____ No _____
11. Lack of manufacturer Part Numbers on appliances, accessories and parts.
Yes ____ No _____
12. Shipments received without invoices included and without reference to
the P.O. Yes ____ No _____
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2. VC/CFM Article/Hearth and Home (From Craig [email protected])
Received my new Hearth and Home and noticed a special full page article
on the VC/CFM thing. Seems like this subject is shaking up the industry
big time, and affecting many other parties other than myself.
Every call I make to fellow retailers, consultants, reps and others seems
to drift to this as the "Subject of the Year". Truthfully, no
one knows what to make of all this. There seem to be sooo.. many inconsistencies
- Vc dealers continue to quote Dennis and Bill as saying "Nothing will
change" at the HPA meeting, and then point to massive changes as soon
as the ink has dried on the deal.
Some of most business savvy folks I know say "No way this thing will
work in the long run" - They tell me "There is no precedent for
this type of activity - it's bad business to burn ALL your bridges behind
you as you go into the future".
I have to reluctantly agree. Simply speaking (for you hippies out there),
the vibes (vibrations) are bad ! Usually, when something doesn't feel good
and right - it isn't.
Of course, I am personally involved in this. My rep called me the other
day, gave me a "dear craig" story and told me that he was opening
another "full-line" VC dealer 9 miles from my main store. He told
me not to take it personally - "t's only business" - I told him
I WAS taking it personal.
So, my rep has called me twice in the past two months, both times to tell
me about opening new business near me. He's also indicated that he's been
driving around my store (to meet with these other accounts and gauge the
distance) - and he never even stopped in to visit us !
You see, our store is a bit different than the "Mom and Pop" operations
that CFM thinks are history. We have long term employees that have Health
Insurance, Profit Sharing Plans, Real World salaries, paid vacations, company
vehicles and families to support. These managers take EVERYTHING personally
cause they have not yet made their millions from stock deals !
Vermont Castings and CFM will not even see a blimp on their sales chart
if we sell double the product we sell now, or if we sell none. VC is currently
about 20-25% of our business. If they had played their cards right, they
could have increased this to 35-40%. Given their current direction, it's
hard to see how they will earn more of our business...but then again, I
don't really think they want it.
We are doing a massive remodeling of our showrooms this summer, and expanding
one store into a larger area. We will sell more hearth product this season
than ever before - I'm certain of it.
Dealers don't care what VC's market cap is, they don't care what it's "debt
to equity" ratio is, they just want to be dealt with in an honest,
straightforward and consistent fashion...perhaps this is asking too much......
As my GM told me "He's not Happy"
Craig Issod Stoveworks Inc. ________________________________________________________________
Send Posts to [email protected]
end of digest
This Month's List Sponsored by LongLeaf Lighter Company Producers of the
finest Fatwood Kindling Dealer and distributor Inquiries Welcome Visit our
Web Site at http://hearth.com/longleaf From ???@??? Sun Jun 30 15:43:35
1996 To: comp From: [email protected] (Craig Issod) Subject: Hearth Digest
6/30/96 Cc: Bcc: main X-Attachments: Message-Id: <v01530500adfc95aa510d@[207.8.144.22]>
In this digest:
1. Answers about Proposed Purchase Order text
2. Comment on Bulletin Boards
1. Answers about Proposed Purchase Order text
From: Jim Butchart <[email protected]> Organization: Hearth
& Color Shop MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hearthlist <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Hearth Digest 6/29/96
Roger Sanders wrote: >
> PROPOSED HEARTH RETAILER QUESTIONARE >
Regarding the "purchase order boiler plate": You could save a
whole lot of time and expense in developing this idea by just sending your
vendor a letter stating you don't want to do business with them anymore.
I don't see how or why any company would agree to sell anything to you with
those "demands" listed on your purchase order. If you have those
issues with a vendor it is time to shop elsewhere anyway. -- Jim Butchart
[email protected] "Do or do not. There is no try" - Yoda
http://www.HearthShop.com ______________________________________________________
From: [email protected] Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 23:18:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Hearth Digest 6/29/96
Hi Guys!
Just wanted to say that the companies you are talking about are making business
decistions. There's no reason why you can't do the same. Become boutique.
It works. I spend maybe 5 times as much on hair care products as many people.
It's because the people I buy them from are professionals, and I value their
products over what I could buy at any other store
Tah! _______________________________________________________
From: "John Wallace" <[email protected]> To: List Subject:
RE: Purchase Orders
As a small dealer some of the issues don't apply. However I think these
are problems that need to be talked about. The biggest issues for our store
would be, warranty claims and design defects.
________________________________________________________
2. Comment on Bulletin Boards
From: "John Wallace" <[email protected]> To: "Craig
Issod" <[email protected]> Subject: RE: BB's
Ken Fulgione said:
>http://www.weyrkeep.com/wwwboard/messages/23.html...... > >North
Central Hearth Products Association has started..... in a stumbling >attempt.......
a web-board where you can share ideas about the future of >communications
in our industry
Regarding New Bulletin Board for Communications. For the past 17 yrs. I
have been told that I was the only dealer having that type of problem. Not
really but it seamed that way at times. With Craig starting the HearthNet,
and others now starting BBs we have a way to communicate with each other
on a daily basis, not just at meetings. This allows us to exchange views
on subjects that need to be talked about. This is a forum that all HPA dealers
and manufacturers should take advantage of....John Wallace ___________________________________________________________
Send Posts to [email protected]
end of digest
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