Hearthlist Digest #603 - Friday, May 4, 2001 vent free sooting by <[email protected]> Re: Energy, I want more...in any way I can get it! by "Edwin J. Fackler" <[email protected]> Standard of Living by "Craig Issod" <[email protected]>
(back) Subject: vent free sooting From: <[email protected]> Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 09:32:31 -0400 --=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D_-1223139344=3D=3D_ma=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii" ; format=3D"flowed" Here are two possible sources: 1)One customer was a heavy cigarette smoker. The smoke combined with the water vapor and condensed on the walls. The telltale sign was the soot = was brown...not gray. 2)Another customer opened his flue damper and particles dropped down from = the dirty chimney onto the logs and caused soot in the room. Conclusion: we have no control over what customers might do with/to these vent free devices, but they will blame us anyway. It's better not to sell them. Tony Palmer --=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D_-1223139344=3D=3D_ma=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"us-ascii" <!doctype html public "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"> <html><head><style type=3D"text/css"><!-- blockquote, dl, ul, ol, li { margin-top: 0 ; margin-bottom: 0 } --></style><title>vent free sooting</title></head><body> <div><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"-1">Here are two possible sources:<br> 1)One customer was a heavy cigarette smoker. The smoke combined with the<br> water vapor and condensed on the walls. The telltale sign was the soot was<br> brown...not gray.<br> 2)Another customer opened his flue damper and particles dropped down from the<br> dirty chimney onto the logs and caused soot in the room.<br> <br> Conclusion: we have no control over what customers might do with/to these<br> vent free devices, but they will blame us anyway. It's better not to sell<br> them.</font><br> <font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"-1"></font></div> <div><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"-1">Tony Palmer</font></div> </body> </html> --=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D_-1223139344=3D=3D_ma=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D--
(back) Subject: Re: Energy, I want more...in any way I can get it! From: "Edwin J. Fackler" <[email protected]> Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 09:34:52 -0400 WELL, NOW!!!! About all this disertation on SUV's, Energy etc., etc. If, I wasn't so busy, I would print it out and send it to Rush! Boy, would he have a picnic with that one. The nice about being "the head honshow" (sp) is no one can keep you from running whatever you want and whether it is valid or not is not a factor. It's always a "kick" to hear someone use the fact that they read it in the paper, as evidence of it's validity. Sure hope too many people don't jump = on this as being"gospel". Not too much danger. Some of the things made me laugh.Like"the European Countries have a higher standard of living than we do". Now there is a classic of someone who has never been in Europe, making an assumption. I have been all over it and = that is a joke( along with being untrue) And our use of most of the earth's energy. ( another classic) Hell, we do more than anyone else. You don't need energy if you sit on your ass all = the time!! We probably use more energy running our computers that most = countries use running their entire economy. Want to go back to the abacus? They = don't use much. And this business of Bush and Cheney taking care of their 'ol buddies in = the energy field will play real well with the Californians during their brownouts. You're too young to remember all the Hell the backers of the TVA and the Hoover and all the rest of the Hydro Dams caught when they were built. We for get all that when we push the "on" button on our computers. NOW-------You think you should be sitting there wringing your hands about the way things are, Buddy, you ain't seen anything yet. Our needs for = energy in the next ten years will double!! Where do you think those electric cars will get the current to charge the batteries?? How about a 480 volt = battery charger in a every garage? And how long can we afford to generate power with natural = gas? Not very long!! And then what???? WELL, TRY THIS ON FOR SIZE!!! We are going to have the kilowatts because = the American wants them and so does the rest of the world-------and we are = going to get it with two things just as sure as God made little green apples!!! COAL------AND NUCLEAR!! And it won't make any difference whether it's Bush Cheney or some other pair--------it's coming and as far as I am concerned, the faster, the better. We would'nt be in the fix we're in if we had someone in those chairs with enough on the ball to see what was happening to us and had enough sense to know what he was seeing-----when he saw it!! Like I said, Rush would have a picnic with you!!! Edwin >
(back) Subject: Standard of Living From: "Craig Issod" <[email protected]> Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 10:14:20 -0400 Ed, I don't even know you, but your assumptions are truly amazing. How do you know how many times I've been to Europe and how many friends I have there? I must assume that listening to Rush, who himself claims to be only a comedian (the Howard Stern of the right), has warped your brain. The tendency to be selfish is a strong one, and the reinforcement given to such ideologies can be downright dangerous to those without much world view. Sure, everyone wants energy. And kids want candy...and my dog will eat food that I leave out until she gets sick and barfs...and 95% of people who are given coke and heroin will become addicted. What does that prove? And that's what we are doing....barfing into the air until we are living in our own puke. Of course, I assume you also don't believe the American Lung Association...a real left wing radical group! Standard of living? No, Ed, this doesn't mean how cheap gas is or how big of a car that you are allowed to buy. There are many factors that contribute, including such mundane things as health insurance. social services and infant mortality. Also included are things such as what % of the population is in jail, etc. On the "official" Human Development Index" maintained by the United Nations, we are #4, behind Canada, France, and Norway. This is mostly life expectancy and income related. On other indexes such as "gender empowerment" (women in power), we place WAY behind dozens of other countries. Just one statistic on infant mortality: the United States still ranks 24th in infant mortality compared with other industrialized nations. Not even close....I'm sure I don't have to point out what our jail and health insurance statistics are, let alone our air pollution. Ed, turn off the Rush show and start reading and looking around. If this is the world you want to leave to your children, then so be it. As for myself and many others, we are concerned that our generations may have ate too much! One thing you are correct about....as the moderator of this list I do have the ability to write and post anything I please. You also have the right to start your own "I love Rush, Money and Nuclear Energy" list and invite all the members here to defect. While I also received many positive comments to my "rant", I have chosen not to post them as it could (as above) get off topic. My opinion is simply my opinion. I always felt I was in the energy business and am proud of the savings that we have created for our customers. I value your opinion, however "ugly american" it is, and posted it as a rebuke to mine. Now that we have both sides of the story, we will end this thread (that means no more posts unless they are truly unique) and each of us can consider the implications of our energy policies. Here's that the Human Development Report summarizes/ It sounds very much like what I wrote : Today's consumption is undermining the environmental resource base. It is exacerbating inequalities. And the dynamics of the consumption-poverty-inequality-environment nexus are accelerating. If the trends continue without change-not redistributing from high-income to low-income consumers, not shifting from polluting to cleaner goods and production technologies, not promoting goods that empower poor producers, not shifting priority from consumption for conspicuous display to meeting basic needs-today's problems of consumption and human development will worsen. But trend is not destiny, and none of these outcomes is inevitable. Change is needed-and change is possible. In short, consumption must be shared, strengthening, socially responsible and sustainable. ---end quote---- Ignorance is bliss, Ed...but you must ask yourself if you are really fooled by Rush's rhetoric or have made a conscious decision not to care.