Hearthlist Digest #543 - Sunday, December 3, 2000 re: Ah... There's nothing quite like the Christmas spirit. by "Noel Gilmore" <[email protected]> Super Fantasic Hearth Products by "Grant Darrow" <[email protected]> re: Dimplex in Home Depot by "Noel Gilmore" <[email protected]> wicked and evil capitalism by "Craig Issod" <[email protected]>
(back) Subject: re: Ah... There's nothing quite like the Christmas spirit. From: "Noel Gilmore" <[email protected]> Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 15:02:59 -0500 >From: "Roger Sanders" <[email protected]> >Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 21:30:34 -0500 >I know that in our business, we=92re at least a hundred times better than >we were a decade ago in handling service issues effectively, but it >seems that there are rapidly growing numbers of inconsiderate and >abusive customers. > >Does it seem to you that there are a lot more abusive customers now than >there were a decade or two ago? > >Do they learn this abusiveness from the Jerry Springer show? I think they've learned it from things such as the liberal return and customer service policies of the mega-corp businesses. their theory being that it's better to appease the customer at a cost so that they willl keep her as a customer thourhout her life rather than stand on principal and lose the customer. Don't forget...these type of stores are ones which customers go to many, many times in the course of their lives, unlike hearth businesses (Don't argue, y'all...NO ONE goes to a hearth store as many time as she goes to a Home Depot or a Macy's or a WalMart). If you've got the moxie, you can just keep arguing and they will = eventually cave in. Examples: friend who works at national department store has ben instructed to accept returns of items KNOWN NOT TO HAVE BEEN PURCHASED AT THE STORE! Customers have been buying big ticket electronics items for one time use and then returned to the store, such as buying a big screen tv = for one's Super Bowl party and then returning it as unsatisfactory the next week, or buying a laptop to be used when one goes on a trip and returning it upon coming home. That is why Sears for one (how I heard about this particular problem) and Circuit City for another (which I learned from my neighbor) now charge a 15-25% restock fee to at least get compensated for some of the trouble or dissuade moral-less people from taking advantage. = In the Circuit City case, my neighbor bought a printer which, it turned out, she didn't need as her old one would work fine with her new computer. She opened but never took it out of the box, and was asked to pay $30 upon return...it was so stated clearly on her rreeipt that these were the = terms. She held out, asked to see the manager, wanted to see the person above the manager, threw around the "lawyer" word, and finally got her return for free. Now years ago, before there were mega-corporation-stores, businesses = simply could not afford to put up with such foolishness and didn't, and customers had no choice but to behave in a more moral way. Years ago, threatening with a lawsuit was only for the very rich. As all that has changed, customers simply refuse to recognize the difference between a Home Depot and a mom & pop hearth business and so treat us the same way they would = the mega-store, because they are convinced that is the way a "smart consumer" needs to behave. Morality doesn't enter into it. The business always is richer than the customer, in the customer's mind, and it's only fair that the customer should get exactly what he wants and not be taken advantage = of by the "wealthy" store. There's a complete failure to recognize the difference in the finances of the small business. And this goes for customer service issues as well. If you threaten = lawsuit, the mega-store just doesn't need to be bothered with the expense so it settles or scrambles to satisfy, no matter how unreasonalbe. In our case, we can't afford either! >Does it come from school? Nah...I reject the argument that the problem resides with youth...that's one that's been made since the time of Aristotle! > >Does it relate to our society=92s dramatic loss of manners and ethics? Indeed, that's part of it. > >I know that Craig will blame in all on the excesses that come from >wicked and evil capitalism. Aw, give him a break! :-) Noel Gilmore Autumn Moon Fireplaces Port St. Lucie, FL
(back) Subject: Super Fantasic Hearth Products From: "Grant Darrow" <[email protected]> Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 15:03:54 -0500 Ellen and I have called it, 'The Dregs' for years...Its November spilling over into December and November was gone by the 1st week October. Tomorrow morning, Sunday, I'll get up at am and drive 111 miles one way to unplug a chimney that has been in use 33 days. Two lanes, snow and five passes. I need to know everything is right with my work before the general contractor and the 'more money than common sense homeowner touch this = thing. I expect to meet two cars in the last 90 miles. Yesterday I rejected a $3900 bid that the homeowner returned to me with = not one but four handwritten additional clauses for my initials, asking that = I, among other things, personally guarantee 10 different manufacturers products, craftsmanship and materials, for 1 year. I began bidding this = job two years ago. This year, Insurance companies aren't even asking for second bids on reinstalls and repairs...how soon can I do it they ask. I actually sigh when I lose a job because I'm told someone else can do it today for much less. And I'm more than happy to refer a job to some one = else from a customer that can't tell me what comes out their roof top, metal or masonry. And then this week I've had three old customers with a combined retail and service history of 72 years ask me how soon I could upgrade that = fireplace, this woodstove and even that 8 year old Osburn gas fireplace...You know, everyone of them said, ' no hurry, when ever you can get to it, we know = your busy.' Another booked May 15th, 2001 to come install a new chimney, in = their new home, and that was one of six days open may. Interestingly enough, one of my business goals several years ago was to become more invisible , but as I anticipated the more invisible I've = become the busier I get. Anyone else experiencing this? Today I closed my showroom of super fantastic hearth products until = January or February sometime, I should have closed last week. Willieweep alias Grant Darrow Chimney Sweep www.northcountrystoves.com > Hearthlist Digest #542 - Friday, December 1, 2000 > > Ah... There's nothing quite like the Christmas spirit. > by "Roger Sanders" <[email protected]>
(back) Subject: re: Dimplex in Home Depot From: "Noel Gilmore" <[email protected]> Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 15:04:58 -0500 >From: "Craig Issod" <[email protected]> >Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 23:20:48 -0500 > >Walked in one of the many local Home Depots here in SJ today and saw >the Electric Stove by Dimplex staring right at me. It sells for $399. >with built-in electric heater. > >When I first saw the Dimplex Fireplaces at an HPA show I was >impressed. They told me that they'd sell for about 500 bucks, and I >thought that was a great price. When they finally hit the market, >they were talking $1000 - $1500 for most of the setups. For what I paid for it from my distributor, I had to sell it for $750. And it was made out of wood, to look like cast. When the Vermont Casting/Majestic stove came out, we switched to it for price as I could still get my margin and sell it cheaper, and it was, at least, cast iron. >Now it's at HD for $399. - If they would have done their homework in >the first place, they probably would have sold scads of them though >fireplace retailers. One person has to make the deal with HD, and thousands are sold. Less work for mother, PROBABLY more profit. Gotta take a look in my local HD...got = me nervous. > >Are they available to the trade for prices like this, or is this an HD >special? Take a guess. Noel Gilmore Autumn Moon Fireplaces
(back) Subject: wicked and evil capitalism From: "Craig Issod" <[email protected]> Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 15:07:13 -0500 --=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D_-1236248461=3D=3D_ma=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" ; format=3D"flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable [email protected] said > >Does it relate to our society=3D92s dramatic loss of manners and ethics? > >I know that Craig will blame in all on the excesses that come from >wicked and evil capitalism. Maybe there=3D92s some truth there. 60 years >ago, people had much less in material things and they certainly were >much more civil to each other. Well, while we're discussing politics and philosophy :-) Most people feel some sort of emptiness in their lives...something=3D20 missing. Shopping and buying things can provide a temporary boost for=3D20 many of us, a sort of shopping "high". We get treated like the=3D20 masters when we have the green in hand and are ready to dispense with=3D20 it. However, like any high, the shopping one also has a hangover. As=3D20 merchants, we are often the target of this "morning after". Although=3D20 I was never very good at dealing with these customers, I suppose that=3D20 it was usually something else wrong with their lives rather than just=3D20 the small problem with the item. Most people are really still civil. A small minority, like those GOP=3D20 staffers who were flown into Florida to monkey wrench the recount,=3D20 can really make some noise. As far as capitalism, I'm not sure of what it does to people...mostly=3D20 good by raising the standard of living. However, the completely free=3D20 form (no responsibility) of corporate capitalism we now follow wrecks=3D20 havoc on the earth. I listened to a report on global warming which=3D20 came out of the recent world meeting in Europe on the subject, and=3D20 things are pretty bad. The US is actually increasing our greenhouse=3D20 gas output (all those SUV's), and the effects are now considered both=3D20 definite and long term. According to a quote from VP Al Gore: "The least amount that we need to clean up far exceeds the maximum=3D20 amount politically possible" =3D46or those who have a tough time with negatives, this means our=3D20 politicians will refuse to do anything about our long term clean air=3D20 and water. Not exactly the legacy I had in mind for our generation=3D20 when I was growing up. But that's another story. ------------------------------------------------------ Craig Issod HearthNet at http://www.hearth.com [email protected] Everything your Hearth Desires ------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------ =3D20 --=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D_-1236248461=3D=3D_ma=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <paraindent><param>left,left,out</param>[email protected] </paraindent><paraindent><param>out,out</param> said </paraindent> <excerpt> Does it relate to our society=3D92s dramatic loss of manners and ethics? I know that Craig will blame in all on the excesses that come from wicked and evil capitalism. Maybe there=3D92s some truth there. 60 years ago, people had much less in material things and they certainly were much more civil to each other. </excerpt> Well, while we're discussing politics and philosophy :-) Most people feel some sort of emptiness in their lives...something missing. Shopping and buying things can provide a temporary boost for many of us, a sort of shopping "high". We get treated like the masters when we have the green in hand and are ready to dispense with it. However, like any high, the shopping one also has a hangover. As merchants, we are often the target of this "morning after". Although I was never very good at dealing with these customers, I suppose that it was usually something else wrong with their lives rather than just the small problem with the item. Most people are really still civil. A small minority, like those GOP staffers who were flown into Florida to monkey wrench the recount, can really make some noise. As far as capitalism, I'm not sure of what it does to people...mostly good by raising the standard of living. However, the completely free form (no responsibility) of corporate capitalism we now follow wrecks havoc on the earth. I listened to a report on global warming which came out of the recent world meeting in Europe on the subject, and things are pretty bad. The US is actually increasing our greenhouse gas output (all those SUV's), and the effects are now considered both definite and long term. According to a quote from VP Al Gore: "The least amount that we need to clean up far exceeds the maximum amount politically possible"=3D20 =3D46or those who have a tough time with negatives, this means our politicians will refuse to do anything about our long term clean air and water. Not exactly the legacy I had in mind for our generation when I was growing up. But that's another story. ------------------------------------------------------ Craig Issod HearthNet at http://www.hearth.com [email protected] Everything your Hearth Desires ------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------ =3D20 --=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D_-1236248461=3D=3D_ma=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D--