Hearthlist Digest #233 - Friday, November 20, 1998 Vent in the House Heaters by "Energy Store - KG-ONE" <[email protected]> Consumer Reports by "Craig Issod" <[email protected]> Im Sorry by "Roger Sanders" <[email protected]> RE: I'm sorry by "Craig Issod" <[email protected]>
(back) Subject: Vent in the House Heaters From: [email protected] (Energy Store - KG-ONE) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 12:51:54 -0500 To date we are fortunate that the Great State of Wisconsin has said "NO to Ventless products > unles you have an old leaky house built before 1978". At this time we do not have to deal with the ventless issue. We just say NO. But I do enjoy the commentary, as a time may come when we will offer the Vent-in-the-house Fireplaces and I welcome your sharing of experiences. We have only had the experience of three ventless sales ...... but all three related to one ventless stove. On the third sale the stove did not return. The first two customers complained of odor.... (turns out one had a dog and the other had a sensitive nose). The second customer also complained about condensation on his windows. The third customer that bought this stove got a super price. He lives in Arizona most of the winter.... (which is a good place for Wisconsin people to spend the winter.};>) He put the stove in a three season sun room. I'm not sure what has happened and I am not about to ask. Three times is a charm but I don't see it as very profitable. If we could get more air exchange in these northern homes I am sure we could sell lots of ventless product..... We never had an odor problem when we burned the unit we finally sold in our showroom.... but I am sure the 11 ft ceilings and open area of our showroom was a lot less confining than the normal "1/3 air exchange per hour" Wisconsin home. Y2K ready .... Go Wood, Ken ___________________________________ Visit the Leisure Home Center Let Us Lite Up Your Hearth & Your Home http://www.leisurehome.com/lhc 1-888-295-FIRE VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV Dragons Work Best Together "Forge a Stronger Fire" VvVvvvvVvvvvVVVvvvVVVvvvvVvvvVVVvvVVvVVvvvvvvVVv < Nutrition is for Life > Buy Nutritional Supliments & Homeopathics Wholesale http://www.freecarpayments.com/2201/ ____________________________________
(back) Subject: Consumer Reports From: Craig Issod <[email protected]> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 13:06:28 -0500 Since many on the list may not have seen the article being discussed, the summary is printed below. I don't think I can print the entire articel here without perhaps copyright problems. Quoted From Consumer Reports: "Recommendations An unvented gas fireplace that's safely sized needn't pose any acute health hazard. But our tests confirm that these heaters contribute significantly to indoor air pollution. If you're planning to buy a gas fireplace, a vented model should be your first choice. That's especially wise if any household member has asthma or another respiratory ailment that may be exacerbated by particulate matter, or if your home is very airtight--and so will disperse the fireplace's emissions less readily. A vented gas fireplace needn't cost more to buy and install than an unvented model, since some units require only a fairly small vent pipe that runs horizontally to any outside wall. If you do decide to buy an unvented gas fireplace, here's how to ensure it operates as safely as possible: Observe GRI guidelines. Insist that the contractor not exceed them when sizing your fireplace. Limit its use. Though occasional extended use of an unvented fireplace should pose little long-term health risk, we suggest limiting operation to no more than two hours at a stretch, as a rule. Provide extra ventilation. Leave at least one window open in the space where the fireplace operates. Buy only a certified package. Some fireplaces are sold as two separate components: a firebox and a logset --the component that contains the burners and logs. Ask the contractor to confirm, through the owners' manual or an American Gas Association label on the logset, that the two components are compatible. A dealer sold us the Martin fireplace with another brand's logset he claimed was suitable. He was wrong; the unit emitted higher levels of carbon monoxide than is desirable until we obtained a logset that was approved for that Martin firebox. Use a battery-powered CO alarm. That dealer error aside, the fireplaces we tested showed no propensity to generate any carbon monoxide (CO). Also, some models, including the Superior we tested, are claimed to shut off should carbon monoxide levels ever rise. However, we recommend use of a CO alarm with any combustion appliance, including an unvented fireplace. Good battery-powered CO alarms we've tested recently include the Nighthawk 900-0089, $45, and Aim Safety SAS 6-96D, $80. " End of quote. I hope this beings everyone up to date on the subject under discussion.
(back) Subject: Im Sorry From: Roger Sanders <[email protected]> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 14:15:57 -0500 Delivered-To: [email protected] X-From_: [email protected] Fri Nov 20 14:01:02 1998 Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:59:20 -0800 From: Roger Sanders <[email protected]> MIME-Version: 1.0 To: [email protected] Subject: Im Sorry Sender: <[email protected]> Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.1 by Fog City Software, Inc. An honest admission from the James Carville of Hearth Some people are taking my My "Vent Free Haters" posting seriously, and for that I apologize. (Hearthlist #227) My posting was simply an attempt to add a little humor to Craigs great, but way too serious Heathlist. Craig, thanks for posting it. Im sure that you saw the humor. My "Vent Free Haters" posting has elements of truth, but I tried to make it as outrageous in defending "Vent Free" as James Carville does, when he defends Clintons big lies. I used many of Carvilles actual quotes and false acquisitions. I simply inserted "Vent Free Haters" instead of "Clinton Haters". When you tell a lie, big enough and often enough, people will believe it. Uncle Joe Stalin was the real master of the big lie technique however. I guess I needed to have used a Carville style, fast paced southern accent to have pulled it off better. Like Carville, I didnt even lie when I stated that Oregon might approve "Vent Free" to make it look like approval is a growing trend. They're in fact, legal for all other use in Oregon, but not yet legal in multi-unit housing. Deceit yes, a lie, no. I thought that everyone would finally get the joke when I talked about "Vent Free" saving the earth and about "Vent Free Haters" taking Christmas money from children. An even better comparison would have been for me to have used the tobacco industry with the half truths and manipulations that they use against the "Tobacco Haters". I didnt use the tobacco industry because they dont have an irrational and outrageous clown like Carville. When customers in our store ask us why "Vent Free" is legal, we tell them that they're legal, just like tobacco is. No one has ever died the next day, week, month or year from using tobacco products or "Vent Free" products. Customers in a free society, have the responsibility to look at all the possible features and side effects, then make up their own minds. We dont sell "Vent Free" products anymore because we dont want to be responsible for their potential for water damage, smell, sooting, misuse and alleged CO, CO2 and NOX health risks. The funs over. I need to get back to work. Roger Sanders By the way, Im not the James Carville of anything" !
(back) Subject: RE: I'm sorry From: Craig Issod <[email protected]> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 14:25:42 -0500 I had to read at least the top 1/3 Rogers post before I understood that it was Tougue in Cheek. I'm sure others did also. However, it would be hard to imagine anyone could read the entire document and still not understand...I guess you have to know Roger and James Carville. I applaud Roger for his direct and concise reasoning as to why his store does not promote the products. It's a heck of a lot clearer than some of the other mismash like: "The article provides no in-depth description of their testing parameters of vent free gas products. But their conclusions are in direct contradiction of industry product listing standards, established independent research and national model codes." We all get enough "spin" in our everyday lives. It's nice to actually get a persons opinion, rather than the carefully worded statements of people who are paid big money to create them. This is one of the purposes of this list. I would not shut out Consumer Reports any more than I'd shut out the Vent Free Alliance. However, if I had to rely on one or the other to give me the unadorned facts - I'd choose CR. Not that I think they are perfect...but just maybe they are at least trying to get a "centered" view on the subject. So, we print the spin, the opinions, the BS and assume that our fair list members are smart eoungh to let their brains sort it all out. ------------------------------------------------------ Craig Issod HearthNet at http://www.hearth.com [email protected] Everything your Hearth Desires ------------------------------------------------------ Buddha says "avoid error" ------------------------------------------------------