Hearthlist Digest #275 - Saturday, March 13, 1999 y2k and response to your rant by "Pat Martin" <[email protected]> RE: Rants by "Craig Issod" <[email protected]> Aladdin Fireplace by "Chip" <[email protected]> y2k and response to your rant by "Pat Martin" <[email protected]> Re: Hearthlist Digest #274 - 03/12/99 by "Jim Moore" <[email protected]>
(back) Subject: y2k and response to your rant From: "Pat Martin" <[email protected]> (by way of Craig Issod) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 10:58:30 -0400 Let the y2k backlash begin. Living here in the great northwest I have had the opportunity lately to get in some GREAT skiing. One area up here has over 30ft of snowpack. You heard it right snowPACK. While on the lift I over heard someone speaking of the Y2k problem. This was Joe blow not in the computer industry or stove industry. He mentioned seeing an add for a wood stove that was y2k compliant and thought it was ridiculous. He went on for the whole ride up about how he was ticked that companies such as this stove shop are taking advantage of peoples ignorance on the subject. Just be careful out there that you do not go overboard with the y2k stuff it may come out to bite you. Next subject. The Evil Empire (or so you say). I start this with full disclosure: My wife works for Microsoft. But if they loose this case it will have nothing but positive effects for me personally as well as her. The stock might take a short fall but will eventually bounce back. The upsides are too many to count. I must say I have patiently been reading every negative post that you have posted regarding the MS vs Mac debate. Finally you have gone past the simple sniping and IMO gone totally off topic. So Craig you must think we are all lemmings heading over the cliff. I for one resent the fact that you (and others) would choose to tear a company down for being successful. You may not like the Microsoft O/S so dont buy it. You have a Mac and there are also many other operating systems that can serve your needs. Linix is free and has capabilities that are astounding. However for someone who has worked on every O/S since the apple 2e and Dos1.0 I find the windows Pc concept fits my needs the best. To use an example: I have a friend that has a medium sized music studio in his house. He went out and purchased the latest and greatest mac based on the reputation they have for music and video. After spending the obligatory large dough he took it home and hooked it up to his system and found the sound quality to be poor through the internal sound card. The company he bought it from assured him it was the best quality available. Even if the card was replaceable (which it was not) they had nothing to offer that was better quality. He had to sell that computer for very little dough and buy a pc for half the price. He now can upgrade whenever the latest and greatest comes out for very little money. As for operating systems I actually find win95/98 easier to use than the newer macs. You may disagree but for my needs it fits. As for burying innovation how you figure? The technology is there for people to buy or use at any time. You all have the choice. Do not impose your choice on me which is exactly what the government is doing. In the case of ATT you did not have the choice. Not a fair comparison. Accusation: Netscape. You are right. Microsoft did see the possibility that everything would be done through the internet. So what would you propose Microsoft do. Keep going in the same direction and get clobbered. They did a 180 almost overnight and turned there focus to the market direction. Incredible if you ask me. Did that hurt Netscape, you bet. Did you hurt your competitor when you took business? Were they out to "kill" Netscape? Probably not directly but that would probably be a result. Netscape had the opportunity to change the direction and did so successfully. They were no shrinking violet and have just solidified a deal with the top Portal of the Internet. I would not call Netscape killed by any means. The fact is Explorer made Navigator better and vice-versa. Giving it away was a poor idea IMO, but building it into the O/S is a necessity for any self respecting OS. As for it being difficult to use Navigator on a windows PC. Btdt and did not find it hard at all. As for buying a PC without windows installed it is just a format c: away. No more windows. I can show you a dozen places that you can buy a computer with no preloaded software on them. Slowing innovation: You keep using the example of upgrading. Thank GOD for upgrading. Innovation by definition is upgrading. Something Macs have been notorious for not allowing. I would rather spend $100 upgrading to the latest technology than $2000 any day. As for not making an upgrade for 98 I find that hilarious. They do what mac has been doing for 15 years and you call them mongers. If you dont like paying for an upgrade I have a news flash. Dont upgrade. No choice also cracks me up. You just mentioned earlier in your post the 3 operating systems you work on. Sounds like choice to me. As for using airlines and ATT those were government created monopolies in the true sense of the word. The problem is that there are choices, and they are many. You may not like them but don't tear 1 choice down because us lemmings have made the choice. My opinion is that every time the government has gotten involved it has done nothing but screw it up. You only need to use the examples you have already given. What did the IBM anti-trust suit accomplish. IBM got clobbered because it zigged when it should of zagged. Something you expect Microsoft to do voluntarily. Opinions are like ass holes everyone has one. Myself is definitely included.;-) Pat Martin
(back) Subject: RE: Rants From: Craig Issod <[email protected]> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:28:28 -0400 RE: Y2K Rants I agree....I think it borders on immoral to try TOO HARD to prey on peoples fears. It is my opinion that the old saying "We have nothing to fear but fear itself" applies to this one. Recent articles in the national news state that PUBLIC PANIC is the REAL Y2K problem. I would hate to see society break down and realize that I added to the mess. That said, there is nothing wrong with providing the products and services to meet a demand. There is also nothing wrong with selling stoves as an "insurance policy". We've been doing that since this business began! Re: My Microsoft rants... I agree that it is off topic, however it is a case that probably affects ALL the industry members. I was going to only post a link to the article, but because there has been no traffic on the list, I figured this might get something going. Looks like it did. I have no problem with success - I own stock in Intel, Cisco, Sun and many other great companies. I don't see Sun trying to squash any and all comers in the UNIX world. They are competing on brain power, not financial muscle. In the end, I think that the era of BIG Operating Systems is coming to an end anyway. The future is in the network, and those who allow us all to speak the same language (Java, PDF, HTML,etc) will be beneficiaries. MS's invasion of privacy (see recent news headlines) and other intentions (charging a yearly "rent" for use of the operating system, etc.) clearly show a company out-of-touch with customers. Hopefully the new reorg will help to address this. However there are reasons that the anti-trust laws exist, and MS's behavior - at the minimum, caused DOJ and many states to invoke the laws. Time will tell whether proper action is taken and what the results are. ------------------------------------------------------ Craig Issod HearthNet at http://www.hearth.com [email protected] Everything your Hearth Desires ------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------
(back) Subject: Aladdin Fireplace From: Chip <[email protected]> (by way of Craig Issod) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:28:28 -0400 Looking for help. I have a customer how needs a manual for there Aladdin Ember Brite Portable Fireplace. Model #PF6500 120V 200W 60HZ. If anybody can direct me I would appreciate it. Thanks for any help. See you all at the show. Chip Brown Pipe Dream Hearth & Patio Ashford, Ct [email protected]
(back) Subject: y2k and response to your rant From: "Pat Martin" <[email protected]> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:28:29 -0400 Let the y2k backlash begin. Living here in the great northwest I have had the opportunity lately to get in some GREAT skiing. One area up here has over 30ft of snowpack. You heard it right snowPACK. While on the lift I over heard someone speaking of the Y2k problem. This was Joe blow not in the computer industry or stove industry. He mentioned seeing an add for a wood stove that was y2k compliant and thought it was ridiculous. He went on for the whole ride up about how he was ticked that companies such as this stove shop are taking advantage of peoples ignorance on the subject. Just be careful out there that you do not go overboard with the y2k stuff it may come out to bite you. Next subject. The Evil Empire (or so you say). I start this with full disclosure: My wife works for Microsoft. But if they loose this case it will have nothing but positive effects for me personally as well as her. The stock might take a short fall but will eventually bounce back. The upsides are too many to count. I must say I have patiently been reading every negative post that you have posted regarding the MS vs Mac debate. Finally you have gone past the simple sniping and IMO gone totally off topic. So Craig you must think we are all lemmings heading over the cliff. I for one resent the fact that you (and others) would choose to tear a company down for being successful. You may not like the Microsoft O/S so dont buy it. You have a Mac and there are also many other operating systems that can serve your needs. Linix is free and has capabilities that are astounding. However for someone who has worked on every O/S since the apple 2e and Dos1.0 I find the windows Pc concept fits my needs the best. To use an example: I have a friend that has a medium sized music studio in his house. He went out and purchased the latest and greatest mac based on the reputation they have for music and video. After spending the obligatory large dough he took it home and hooked it up to his system and found the sound quality to be poor through the internal sound card. The company he bought it from assured him it was the best quality available. Even if the card was replaceable (which it was not) they had nothing to offer that was better quality. He had to sell that computer for very little dough and buy a pc for half the price. He now can upgrade whenever the latest and greatest comes out for very little money. As for operating systems I actually find win95/98 easier to use than the newer macs. You may disagree but for my needs it fits. As for burying innovation how you figure? The technology is there for people to buy or use at any time. You all have the choice. Do not impose your choice on me which is exactly what the government is doing. In the case of ATT you did not have the choice. Not a fair comparison. Accusation: Netscape. You are right. Microsoft did see the possibility that everything would be done through the internet. So what would you propose Microsoft do. Keep going in the same direction and get clobbered. They did a 180 almost overnight and turned there focus to the market direction. Incredible if you ask me. Did that hurt Netscape, you bet. Did you hurt your competitor when you took business? Were they out to "kill" Netscape? Probably not directly but that would probably be a result. Netscape had the opportunity to change the direction and did so successfully. They were no shrinking violet and have just solidified a deal with the top Portal of the Internet. I would not call Netscape killed by any means. The fact is Explorer made Navigator better and vice-versa. Giving it away was a poor idea IMO, but building it into the O/S is a necessity for any self respecting OS. As for it being difficult to use Navigator on a windows PC. Btdt and did not find it hard at all. As for buying a PC without windows installed it is just a format c: away. No more windows. I can show you a dozen places that you can buy a computer with no preloaded software on them. Slowing innovation: You keep using the example of upgrading. Thank GOD for upgrading. Innovation by definition is upgrading. Something Macs have been notorious for not allowing. I would rather spend $100 upgrading to the latest technology than $2000 any day. As for not making an upgrade for 98 I find that hilarious. They do what mac has been doing for 15 years and you call them mongers. If you dont like paying for an upgrade I have a news flash. Dont upgrade. No choice also cracks me up. You just mentioned earlier in your post the 3 operating systems you work on. Sounds like choice to me. As for using airlines and ATT those were government created monopolies in the true sense of the word. The problem is that there are choices, and they are many. You may not like them but don't tear 1 choice down because us lemmings have made the choice. My opinion is that every time the government has gotten involved it has done nothing but screw it up. You only need to use the examples you have already given. What did the IBM anti-trust suit accomplish. IBM got clobbered because it zigged when it should of zagged. Something you expect Microsoft to do voluntarily. Opinions are like ass holes everyone has one. Myself is definitely included.;-) Pat Martin
(back) Subject: Re: Hearthlist Digest #274 - 03/12/99 From: Jim Moore <[email protected]> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:28:29 -0400 > > be, but I surely hope that innovation does not continue to get crushed > because of power and greed. Bill Gates must stop with his "revenge of the > nerds" mentality and become a PART of the solution...instead of the ONLY Right on Craig! Dont we hate being used--the car mfgs are doing the same thing. Jim M wett bc