# Adding a Pellet Stove to the Cellar



## dylskee (Aug 8, 2013)

Hello all, first time posting here in the Pellet Mill and I've got some questions. I currently run a Woodstock Fireview on my first floor of a Cape style house and it heats most of my first floor and all of my second floor. The far end of my house is my son's bed room and a bathroom with ceramic tile that doesn't get much heat at all from the wood stove. We use the stove as our main heat source, oil furnace hasn't been on in years now! Needless to say, the far end of the house isn't very warm and I also have a bedroom in the cellar as well that we use a space heater in the winter.

I would like to put a pellet stove in the cellar to heat about 900 SF and the floors of the first floor. Would it be a good idea to put it on a hearth pad? Not sure If I'd lose too much heat through the cellar floor or not? I don't have any experience with pellet stoves at all but I would assume it doesn't throw too much heat from the bottom of the stove, correct? I was thinking of buying a stove that would heat at least 1500 SF because it will be in my cold ass cellar...... How are the Englanders from Home Depot as far as quality, should I steer clear of the Home Depot specials? I would rather not spend $3000. but I also don't want a junker that's not going to heat my basement. It's also sales tax free weekend this Saturday and Sunday so I can save a few bucks as well! 

Thanks in advance for any advice..........


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## subsailor (Aug 8, 2013)

Pellet stoves DO get hot on the bottom.

Englanders are good stoves and their customer service is the best as long as you're mechanically able. Their senior service tech is a regular on this site. I'm not qualified to offer advice on which stove you should look at, but I'm sure others on here will.


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## Jaymaine34 (Aug 8, 2013)

I'm thinking about doing the samething . Just worried the heat would drive me out of there !


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## kenstogie (Aug 8, 2013)

The  25 PDVCis a fine stove .... if you are mechanically iinclined. Ihave 2 and love them.   It says its good to 1500 sf (i think)  but Iimagine thats for an open floor plan.


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## Pellet-King (Aug 9, 2013)

As a longtime cellar "woodstover", the heat of a woodstove would drive you out as you cant regulate it as much as a alot cooler running on low pellet stove, 90+ degree's was my cellar temp in my previous cape.


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## sinnian (Aug 9, 2013)

The foundation will absorb a lot of heat before it radiates and heats the upstairs floor.


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## Jaymaine34 (Aug 9, 2013)

Not looking for a lot of heat just enough to take the chill off kids play down there a lot in the winter . Me I'm on the ice !


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## Chain (Aug 9, 2013)

Are your basement walls insulated on either the outside wall or inside wall?  Both?  I would suspect that depending upon the answer to this question you'd be fine with putting a decent sized new or used pellet stove in your basement.  As long as you realize that much of that heat may not make it upstairs into your primary living area.  Given it sounds like you're primarily looking to "take the chill off," a pellet stove may be exactly what you need.


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## dylskee (Aug 9, 2013)

Thanks for all the replies, very much appreciated! No, my basement walls are not insulated so that was a concern for me. I only want to heat the basement and the floor right above where the stove will be placed, a little less than 900 SF. I figured if I get a stove capable of 1500 SF that should be suffice? I figured a pellet stove would be perfect, I need something I don't have to babysit. My wood stove on the first floor is right in my living room next to my comfy recliner so I can keep up on that pretty easily!  And the FireView has a great burn time, I can load it with a few splits at 10:00 PM and still have red hot coals at 5:00 AM. Would I benefit from putting the pellet stove on a hearth pad or would the difference be negligible?


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## smoke show (Aug 9, 2013)

I have a basement install. Its not on a hearth pad. My walls have 2" foam on the outside. Its about 1k sq ft. I run the stove intermittently, its takes a few

hours for the walls to heat up but after that its just fine. I was using an Englander 25pdvc, but recently swapped it out for a Avalon with more features.


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## MCPO (Aug 9, 2013)

dylskee said:


> Thanks for all the replies, very much appreciated! No, my basement walls are not insulated so that was a concern for me. I only want to heat the basement and the floor right above where the stove will be placed, a little less than 900 SF. I figured if I get a stove capable of 1500 SF that should be suffice? I figured a pellet stove would be perfect, I need something I don't have to babysit. My wood stove on the first floor is right in my living room next to my comfy recliner so I can keep up on that pretty easily!  And the FireView has a great burn time, I can load it with a few splits at 10:00 PM and still have red hot coals at 5:00 AM. Would I benefit from putting the pellet stove on a hearth pad or would the difference be negligible?


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## MCPO (Aug 9, 2013)

dylskee said:


> Thanks for all the replies, very much appreciated! No, my basement walls are not insulated so that was a concern for me. I only want to heat the basement and the floor right above where the stove will be placed, a little less than 900 SF. I figured if I get a stove capable of 1500 SF that should be suffice? I figured a pellet stove would be perfect, I need something I don't have to babysit. My wood stove on the first floor is right in my living room next to my comfy recliner so I can keep up on that pretty easily!  And the FireView has a great burn time, I can load it with a few splits at 10:00 PM and still have red hot coals at 5:00 AM. Would I benefit from putting the pellet stove on a hearth pad or would the difference be negligible?


 I`d say negligible.  You are going to lose a significant amount of heat thru all the concrete regardless of whether or not you use a hearth pad. Bite the bullet and insulate the walls at least.


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## dylskee (Aug 9, 2013)

My local HomeDepot doesn't carry the Englander Pellet stoves, Lowes stocks the Summers Heat Pellet stoves, are those equivalent or should I keep shopping?


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## Don2222 (Aug 9, 2013)

smoke show said:


> I have a basement install. Its not on a hearth pad. My walls have 2" foam on the outside. Its about 1k sq ft. I run the stove intermittently, its takes a few
> 
> hours for the walls to heat up but after that its just fine. I was using an Englander 25pdvc, but recently swapped it out for a Avalon with more features.


 
Hey Smoke
What kind of Avalon, it is not in your Signature?


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## Don2222 (Aug 9, 2013)

dylskee said:


> Would I benefit from putting the pellet stove on a hearth pad or would the difference be negligible?


 
IMO, there are many benefits of a nice RAISED hearth in the basement.
1. Having it higher off a damp floor keeps paint from chipping or peeling
2. Safer, running into a raised hearth hurts less than a hot stove
3. Easier to pull up a chair and clean it out without stooping to low!
4. Looks nicer. See comparison pic below! ! ! Same stove, but a nice raised hearth makes it look better. LOL

Click pic of "Dueling Quads" below to Enlarge


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## Don2222 (Aug 9, 2013)

dylskee said:


> Would I benefit from putting the pellet stove on a hearth pad or would the difference be negligible?


 
Let's put this another way.
I would Never think of putting my Harmy's on a cold basement floor or garage floor or shed floor!

See pic of "My 3 Harmans" below. Click to Enlarge

Pic 1 - Basement
Pic 2 - Garage
Pic 3 - Shed


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## smwilliamson (Aug 10, 2013)

Don2222 said:


> Let's put this another way.
> I would Never think of putting my Harmy's on a cold basement floor or garage floor or shed floor!
> 
> See pic of "My 3 Harmans" below. Click to Enlarge
> ...


Geez you for 3 now? How much of that HHT cool-aide did you drink?


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## smoke show (Aug 10, 2013)

Newport, Don


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## h2ochild (Aug 10, 2013)

dylskee said:


> My local HomeDepot doesn't carry the Englander Pellet stoves, Lowes stocks the Summers Heat Pellet stoves, are those equivalent or should I keep shopping?


The Summers Heat 55-SHP10,Timberidge 55-TRP10,and 25 PVDC are all the same stove..You might want to check out AMFM energy..http://www.amfmenergy.com, they sell rebuilds at impressive savings, carrying the same warranty...I and others here, are very satisfied with our purchase from them.


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## Lousyweather (Aug 10, 2013)

smwilliamson said:


> Geez you for 3 now? How much of that HHT cool-aide did you drink?


 
he doesn't own a Quad.......yet......maybe just drinking the Harman variant?


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## dylskee (Aug 10, 2013)

Well, I bought a pellet stove today and I know I'm going to get flamed (<===Pun Intended) for my decision but........ I bought a Kozi Shop Heater, I figured for the money it would be fine down in my dark damp cellar. I know it doesn't get great reviews but I really didn't want to spend too much for something to heat the cellar. If it turns out to be a giant piece of crap, I'll get rid of it and get something more expensive. From what I've read so far, it really needs to burn high quality pellets to be happy, although that can be said for any stove really. I will be picking it up next weekend, now I have to make room down cellar and build a platform to sit it on so I'm not breaking my back cleaning it out. Now I have to figure out how to install it...


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## subsailor (Aug 10, 2013)

Don2222 said:


> Pic 3 - Shed


 
How come it's crooked on the hearth?


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## Don2222 (Aug 10, 2013)

subsailor said:


> How come it's crooked on the hearth?


 

It is not hooked up yet. I took out the burn pot to paint the fire box. I just got the Auto Ignition Upgrade Kit with the new burn pot. Now I have to put it in along with the new wiring harness and new control panel. LOL


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## Don2222 (Aug 10, 2013)

Lousyweather said:


> he doesn't own a Quad.......yet......maybe just drinking the Harman variant?


 

You must have missed those Quads I had LW

1st was a CB1200
2 & 3 were Quadrafire Santa Fe

Now I just have the older Contour with the pie warmer shelf. It keeps my coffee warm in the winter! LOL


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## smwilliamson (Aug 10, 2013)

Lousyweather said:


> he doesn't own a Quad.......yet......maybe just drinking the Harman variant?


He has a sante fe


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## Don2222 (Aug 10, 2013)

smwilliamson said:


> He has a sante fe


 

Correction that was 2 Santa Fe's. I like those corkscrew augers and wow they are real pellet misers!


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## dylskee (Aug 10, 2013)

Can anyone recommend a good source for tips on installing a vent kit through a block basement wall? I have never done an install before but with some instruction I'm sure I can get it done. Are the wall thimbles all 6" diameter? That's a pretty big hole through the foundation!!


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## Don2222 (Aug 10, 2013)

dylskee said:


> Can anyone recommend a good source for tips on installing a vent kit through a block basement wall? I have never done an install before but with some instruction I'm sure I can get it done. Are the wall thimbles all 6" diameter? That's a pretty big hole through the foundation!!


 

Masonry drill bits and a cold chisel and you can do it! I assume you have a hammer and drill.


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## dylskee (Aug 10, 2013)

Don2222 said:


> Masonry drill bits and a cold chisel and you can do it! I assume you have a hammer and drill.


What about the wall thimble, screws and lots of calk?


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## smoke show (Aug 10, 2013)

Or through the rim joist if possible.


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## dylskee (Aug 10, 2013)

smoke show said:


> Or through the rim joist if possible.


 
I have to go through the concrete wall, I need to rent a core drill........


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## dylskee (Aug 10, 2013)

Here's where I'm going to be coming out with the vent pipe, 4' to the right of that window.


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## save$ (Aug 10, 2013)

I have a pellet stove in my "cellar".   My 2200 sq foot raised ranch is heated by it, and it alone,. except when the temp drops down below 15 F for a day or longer.  Then the oil furnace kicks on once in a while.  but, my house in only the in the ground 2-3 feet on three sides and not at all on one.  All my walls are insulated with 4 in. fiberglass batts.  Both levels are finished.  The floor is not insulated.  I removed the carpets and put down tile because of our pets.  No water issues.  I don't know what kind of heat you think you will get from that stove in an uninsulated space, but I question if it is going to make you happy.  Let us know.


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## dylskee (Aug 10, 2013)

save$ said:


> I have a pellet stove in my "cellar". My 2200 sq foot raised ranch is heated by it, and it alone,. except when the temp drops down below 15 F for a day or longer. Then the oil furnace kicks on once in a while. but, my house in only the in the ground 2-3 feet on three sides and not at all on one. All my walls are insulated with 4 in. fiberglass batts. Both levels are finished. The floor is not insulated. I removed the carpets and put down tile because of our pets. No water issues. I don't know what kind of heat you think you will get from that stove in an uninsulated space, but I question if it is going to make you happy. Let us know.


 
Love the dogs in your avatar!

I'm just looking to heat the basement so it's not an ice box down there, nothing more. My wood stove on the first floor heats almost the entire house without a problem so I just wanted something in the cellar that would take the chill off and I don't have to monitor on an hourly basis. That being said, I'm pretty sure the pellet stove will heat the 900 SF without too much issue, (I hope!!). I will definitely post my results this winter. I also only have 2-1/2 walls under ground but about 6 feet, the last wall is all above ground.


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## BrotherBart (Aug 10, 2013)

For what it's worth I put a pellet stove in the un-insulated basement two years ago. I just put it down there for the times I need to do stuff down there and then shut it down. It sits on the concrete floor and I don't give any thought to it. That 1,000 feet of floor and the block walls suck up a ton of heat themselves.

It takes a long time for any heat to want to come upstairs. But with the blower in the pellet puppy it is comfortable down there pretty quick.


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## dylskee (Aug 11, 2013)

BrotherBart said:


> For what it's worth I put a pellet stove in the un-insulated basement two years ago. I just put it down there for the times I need to do stuff down there and then shut it down. It sits on the concrete floor and I don't give any thought to it. That 1,000 feet of floor and the block walls suck up a ton of heat themselves.
> 
> It takes a long time for any heat to want to come upstairs. But with the blower in the pellet puppy it is comfortable down there pretty quick.


That's exactly what I'm looking for, I don't need the heat upstairs thanks to my Fireview. I'll see how the winter goes and If I have to insulate I will do that, but I'll see if the pellet stove will heat the cellar without it.


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## BrotherBart (Aug 11, 2013)

Yeah I have always had wood stoves down there. But now that my office isn't down there that on/off button on the pellet stove is nice. No going down and starting a fire an hour before doing anything, guessing how much wood to put in it and then essentially wasting wood and heat after I am done.


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## Jaymaine34 (Aug 11, 2013)

I'm looking for simple and easy ! Only looking at 1000sq ft of finished space . The only feature I care about is a stat ( wanna set and forget ) 3/4 of basement is finished ( rigid foam on walls ) carpeted floor . Basement was fine before we put in pellet stove ( stayed about 65-67)
Furance only heats water now . So January /February gets down to about 60 . So I don't feel I'm trying to make up much 5-10 degrees max . I like my pellets and want to stick with them ! I figure I can get this done for 1000-15000 ( includes install )
 Just don't want a problem stove ! Love my Quad just not looking to spend that kind of $$ .
Been looking at some refurbished stoves online prices are good just need to find a local installer . Wish some of the guys on here that refurb and install stoves were closer .


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## dylskee (Aug 12, 2013)

I noticed in the manual it states the vent pipe must be 4 feet horizontally or 1 foot above any door or window. Does that mean on the wall where it exits only, or does that 4 feet apply to around the corner as well? I'm trying to figure out the best location and install method for the stove, what do you think would yield the best results? I will have about 4-5 feet of vertical pipe, the exit through the block foundation. Then I will have the two options below.

1. Out from the foundation on the cedar siding side, 3 feet of vertical pipe then the cap?
2. Out from the foundation on the vinyl siding side of the house, 10 feet of pipe to get above the window clearance and then the cap?

Would number 2 be too much pipe? What would give me the best results?


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## dylskee (Aug 14, 2013)

I was looking around for an installer the past couple days to get a price on a basement install of my stove and it's not easy finding someone around here! The store I bought the stove from wants $450. Does that number seem high to anyone else or is that the going rate? Any local installers here on the forum that would be interested in giving me a price, or is this frowned upon here? I couldn't find anything in the stickies pertaining to this.


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## Jaymaine34 (Aug 14, 2013)

I just got a price of 750 ( but that included the venting )


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## save$ (Aug 14, 2013)

I paid close to $1000. In 2008,   And that was for a simple 3 ft rise up and out.   Got the bill after the install.


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## mepellet (Aug 15, 2013)

Don2222 said:


> Let's put this another way.
> I would Never think of putting my Harmy's on a cold basement floor or garage floor or shed floor!
> 
> See pic of "My 3 Harmans" below. Click to Enlarge
> ...


 

Dang.... you really like those P61A's huh?  Do any of them require thermal protection under the stove?  What are the R values for the raised hearths?


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## Don2222 (Aug 15, 2013)

mepellet said:


> Dang.... you really like those P61A's huh? Do any of them require thermal protection under the stove? What are the R values for the raised hearths?


 

All 3 are on raised hearths, that have porcelain tile over 1/2" cement board over 3/4" plywood on 2x4s or 2x6s for strength. The hearths in the shed and basement with slotted overhangs contain 1/2" LED rope light. The basement hearth has a 220 VAC 900 watt electric heater for backup and the shed hearth has a lighted opening for holding manuals and tools. I may put a door on it sometime.


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## mepellet (Aug 15, 2013)

Don2222 said:


> All 3 are on raised hearths, that have porcelain tile over 1/2" cement board over 3/4" plywood on 2x4s or 2x6s for strength. The hearths in the shed and basement with slotted overhangs have 1/2" LED rope light.


 
Were any of them made during the time that thermal protection was required?  Mine was.

Sorry to derail the thread even more. I just know that some people were not aware of this requirement (including my stove dealer).  I hate seeing things that are not installed to the manufacturer's requirements.


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## Don2222 (Aug 15, 2013)

mepellet said:


> Were any of them made during the time that thermal protection was required? Mine was.
> 
> Sorry to derail the thread even more. I just know that some people were not aware of this requirement (including my stove dealer). I hate seeing things that are not installed to the manufacturer's requirements.


 

Not that I know of. Was there a themal requirement in the stove manual?


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## mepellet (Aug 15, 2013)

Don2222 said:


> Not that I know of. Was there a themal requirement in the stove manual?


 yes.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/hearth-pad-worries-with-my-p61a.72618/


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## Don2222 (Aug 15, 2013)

mepellet said:


> yes.
> 
> https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/hearth-pad-worries-with-my-p61a.72618/


 

Thanks, Harman stove bodies do get hotter than any other pellet stove I have seen, so adaquate floor protection is a must!
All 3 hearths have a layer of 1/2" fireproof cement board like lessoil has in this post. Like him there are no problems here with that.


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## mepellet (Aug 15, 2013)

Don2222 said:


> Thanks, Harman stove bodies do get hotter than any other pellet stove I have seen, so adaquate floor protection is a must!
> All 3 hearths have a layer of 1/2" fireproof cement board like lessoil has in this post. Like him there are no problems here with that.


 Not to split hairs but his post doesn't indicate any R or K values so his hearth might not be adequate either....


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## SmokeyTheBear (Aug 15, 2013)

Pay very close attention to what mepellet is saying it can save your house. 

Somewhere on this site is a report with pictures of what was happening below an ember protection only hearth pad with a particular Harman model that was operated on that pad.


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## Don2222 (Aug 15, 2013)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> Pay very close attention to what mepellet is saying it can save your house.
> 
> Somewhere on this site is a report with pictures of what was happening below an ember protection only hearth pad with a particular Harman model that was operated on that pad.


 

Agree, but cement board and porcalein tiles are fire proof. The cement board alone has a 2 hour fire rating!


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## mepellet (Aug 15, 2013)

but if they don't meet the required R value (if any is required on your models), then you have combustible plywood underneath.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Aug 15, 2013)

Pay attention you must have the proper thermal protection between the stove and anything that is combustible.

A stove requiring a certain R or K value for its hearth must attain that value prior to any combustible material and Don that includes your plywood substrate.


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## mepellet (Aug 15, 2013)

what first got me thinking about this was that in your shed photo, it appears that you might not even have ember protection in the front of the stove.  But you mentioned that it wasn't connected yet so maybe that moved it back enough on the hearth for the ember protection.


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## Don2222 (Aug 15, 2013)

mepellet said:


> but if they don't meet the required R value (if any is required on your models), then you have combustible plywood underneath.


 
Agree!
Harman P61-2 manual does not have a min R value for floor pad?


See red arrow on page 2 below, click to enlarge


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## SmokeyTheBear (Aug 15, 2013)

Assuming that that that manual is correct and reflects the actual stove you have your pad is fine.

IIRC the party with the issue I was talking about's manual also said ember protection but it wasn't correct.

Funny things happen when copy and paste can take place.

ETA: For everyone's information this is the thread discussing a certain Harman stove and the hearth pad requirements https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/hearth-pad-worries-with-my-p61a.72618/  .  For the newcomers to the forum one of the major issues that shows up on here is that of an improper installation.  An error in this area can cause loss of life and/or home.  Most folks on here don't want bad things to happen so we tend to jump on what may appear to be "minor" technicalities.


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## Don2222 (Aug 15, 2013)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> Assuming that that that manual is correct and reflects the actual stove you have your pad is fine.
> 
> IIRC the party with the issue I was talking about's manual also said ember protection but it wasn't correct.
> 
> Funny things happen when copy and paste can take place.


 

Agree

Also some of those very thin hearth matts (They are flexible!) made by Imperial and sold at some of the Big box stores and at some dealers, may NOT be adequate for stoves that radiate heat. I usually sell the ceramic tile in the steel pan this is adequate.


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## dylskee (Aug 15, 2013)

Jaymaine34 said:


> I just got a price of 750 ( but that included the venting )


 
That sounds about what they want to do the install, I already paid for the venting which was $350. and they want another $450. for the install. I wonder if that includes the permit and inspection? I'll be picking up the stove Saturday so I'll ask questions then. I have to move 3 cords of wood from my driveway tomorrow!


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## Jaymaine34 (Aug 15, 2013)

Does that include an OAK ?


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## dylskee (Aug 15, 2013)

I'm starting to have second thoughts about this Kozi Shop Heater, I already paid for the stove but haven't picked it up yet. I might want to up my budget a little and get something else, I'm not finding ANY positive reviews about this stove. I should have researched the stove before I plunked down the money, it seemed like a good deal and perfect for the basement......


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## dylskee (Aug 15, 2013)

Jaymaine34 said:


> Does that include an OAK ?


No, that doesn't. My town doesn't require it and my basement is pretty drafty so it's a built-in OAK!


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## Jaymaine34 (Aug 15, 2013)

I'm leaning towards a refurb ! On sale now for 999.00 !


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## mepellet (Aug 15, 2013)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> Assuming that that that manual is correct and reflects the actual stove you have your pad is fine.



Don, Might want to double check that all three of those serial nu,beds are covered under that one version of the install manual.


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## dylskee (Aug 15, 2013)

Jaymaine34 said:


> I'm leaning towards a refurb ! On sale now for 999.00 !


 
What kind of stove are you leaning towards?


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## Jaymaine34 (Aug 15, 2013)

55-TRPAH - EPA Certified Pellet Stove - 2000 sq.ft.
Will  work with a thermostat ( on and off ) 
From AM FM energy and it includes delivery .
I can't take all the credit Dexter help guide me . It looks to be the biggest bang for my buck !


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## dylskee (Aug 15, 2013)

Jaymaine34 said:


> 55-TRPAH - EPA Certified Pellet Stove - 2000 sq.ft.
> Will work with a thermostat ( on and off )
> From AM FM energy and it includes delivery .
> I can't take all the credit Dexter help guide me . It looks to be the biggest bang for my buck !


Nice choice, I've been looking around that site as well. I just hope they return my money without a hassle. I don't see anything on my receipt about a return policy, I haven't actually taken it from the store yet so.......


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## Jaymaine34 (Aug 15, 2013)

It gets great reveiws ! Plus I wanted not to have buyers remorse ! Having my quad has been a cake walk . Diidn't want a headache . But I also didn't want to spend Quad money .
    Also as a bonus with my install my stove will be in the correct spot ( should the Quad go down ) to heat my home enough so we won't freeze .
Planning to order it on Monday after my installer does a site check to be sure all will work as planned .


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## dylskee (Aug 16, 2013)

I got my money back on the stove, so back to researching.......... I just didn't have a warm and fuzzy feeling about that stove.


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## brokenknee (Aug 16, 2013)

Picked up a Harman P68 a couple of months ago, have yet to install it. It was either $400 or $450 the dealer wanted for the install. He didn't push it at all and said if I was handy it is pretty easy. Should get er done soon as cooler weather is not far off.


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## dylskee (Aug 16, 2013)

I'm looking for something in the $2000. range, if I can get something decent in the price point then I probably have it installed. I'm not sure why, but every manual I look at always says "If a basement install have it done professionally." I would think the opposite, the basement you don't have to worry about it looking ugly. As long as it's effective and to code, but on your main living space you not only have to be more careful but it has to look good too. Why is a basement install more difficult?


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## SmokeyTheBear (Aug 16, 2013)

dylskee said:


> I'm looking for something in the $2000. range, if I can get something decent in the price point then I probably have it installed. I'm not sure why, but every manual I look at always says "If a basement install have it done professionally." I would think the opposite, the basement you don't have to worry about it looking ugly. As long as it's effective and to code, but on your main living space you not only have to be more careful but it has to look good too. Why is a basement install more difficult?



Frequently installing in a basement requires going through concrete, bricks, or other hard to get through materials.

Then we have the well known chimney effect that gets worse as you place a stove in lower levels.  This can require that an OAK be used in order for the stove to have a proper air flow for combustion.

Then the ability of massive amounts of concrete or other foundation material to act as a heat sucker.

Then you have the issue of getting heat circulated to the upper floors.  Sometimes what one might do to accomplish this is not allowed by code.

A search on here about basement stoves or moving the hot air around can be enlightening.


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## doghouse (Aug 17, 2013)

dylskee said:


> I'm looking for something in the $2000. range, if I can get something decent in the price point then I probably have it installed. I'm not sure why, but every manual I look at always says "If a basement install have it done professionally." I would think the opposite, the basement you don't have to worry about it looking ugly. As long as it's effective and to code, but on your main living space you not only have to be more careful but it has to look good too. Why is a basement install more difficult?


 
For $2000.00, you can get the stove from AM FM Energy, pay someone to install and buy a ton or two of pellets. Thats bang fer yer buck!


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## Jaymaine34 (Aug 17, 2013)

doghouse said:


> For $2000.00, you can get the stove from AM FM Energy, pay someone to install and buy a ton or two of pellets. Thats bang fer yer buck!


This is what I'm thinking will be my best bet ! I have the installer coming on Monday to see if what  I'm thinking will work .im not looking to heat my house with it just the basement . Plus I figure if I ever have an issue with the cb1200 the basement stove will help in the short term ( will be placed near the basement stairs . With the oak I don't think it will affect the burn of the other stove .


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## dylskee (Aug 17, 2013)

Wait, I'm confused now. Is Timber Ridge and Englander the same company? I'm clicking on reviews for the Timber Ridge and it brings me to an Englander page?


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## smoke show (Aug 17, 2013)

dylskee said:


> Wait, I'm confused now. Is Timber Ridge and Englander the same company? I'm clicking on reviews for the Timber Ridge and it brings me to an Englander page?


Yes


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## dylskee (Aug 17, 2013)

smoke show said:


> Yes


 Thank you smoke show!


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## dylskee (Aug 17, 2013)

Can anyone recommend a stove installer in the Central Mass area? I'm leaning towards a stove from AM FM Energy but trying to find an installer is another issue.


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## will711 (Aug 17, 2013)

http://www.pelletstoveservice.com/

Try him he posted in this thread # 17 & #25 

He covers a big chunk of New England area.


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## dylskee (Aug 17, 2013)

will711 said:


> http://www.pelletstoveservice.com/
> 
> Try him he posted in this thread # 17 & #25
> 
> He covers a big chunk of New England area.


I was considering it but he's at least an hour away from me so that would be factored into the price.

EDIT: I just noticed you said he covers a big chunk of the NE area!!


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## will711 (Aug 17, 2013)

dylskee said:


> I was considering it but he's at least an hour away from me so that would be factored into the price.


Can't hurt to ask , I don't know him personally only from his posts here , seems like he's the kinda guy that won't do you wrong


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## Lousyweather (Aug 17, 2013)

dylskee said:


> I was considering it but he's at least an hour away from me so that would be factored into the price.
> 
> EDIT: I just noticed you said he covers a big chunk of the NE area!!


 
Yea, but I don't think youre gonna find anyone who will do a quality job for next to nothing- I think Scott's prices are fair, given the distance.


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## dylskee (Aug 17, 2013)

doghouse said:


> For $2000.00, you can get the stove from AM FM Energy, pay someone to install and buy a ton or two of pellets. Thats bang fer yer buck!


Not from my research, the price of a basement install will exceed the price of the stove! 
And that's buying a $1600. stove, I just can't justify that expense for a fairly simple install. I'm pretty handy and not afraid of taking on a project so I'll give this one a go. I looked at a website with their rates listed online and it totaled $1545. with a basement install and that's on the low end, most likely it would be more.

I'm leaning towards the 55-TRPEP, I still haven't decided on new or refurbished yet.


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## Jaymaine34 (Aug 17, 2013)

I let you know on Moday . When I spoke to my installer ( who has been in my home for chimminey cleaning ) he figured 750  for install ( that's including all venting ) 
So stove1000.000 install 750.00 = 1750.00 still room for a ton of pellets ( or at least pretty close )
I know every setup can be a little different so I did ask around and got some numbers like you are talking !
It's funny with all I've learned on here I'm starting to think I could almost do it myself .
But considering it took me over 6 months to finish a bathroom remodel I better leave this to a pro !


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## dylskee (Aug 17, 2013)

Jaymaine34 said:


> I let you know on Moday . When I spoke to my installer ( who has been in my home for chimminey cleaning ) he figured 750 for install ( that's including all venting )
> So stove1000.000 install 750.00 = 1750.00 still room for a ton of pellets ( or at least pretty close )
> I know every setup can be a little different so I did ask around and got some numbers like you are talking !
> It's funny with all I've learned on here I'm starting to think I could almost do it myself .
> But considering it took me over 6 months to finish a bathroom remodel I better leave this to a pro !


 LOL!! You just wanted to make sure it was done well, that's all...... 

I don't mind paying someone for their time but for that kind of money it doesn't make good money sense. Plus, what does it matter who installs the stove, as long as it meets code and the inspector is happy, that's all that matters in the end.


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## dylskee (Aug 17, 2013)

h2ochild said:


> The Summers Heat 55-SHP10,Timberidge 55-TRP10,and 25 PVDC are all the same stove..You might want to check out AMFM energy..http://www.amfmenergy.com, they sell rebuilds at impressive savings, carrying the same warranty...I and others here, are very satisfied with our purchase from them.


Thanks for the link, I'm 99% sure I'll be buying a stove from here!


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## SmokeyTheBear (Aug 17, 2013)

Timber Ridge is an England Stove Works stove sold through one channel and Summer's Heat is an England Stove Works stove sold through a different channel.  Same stove different retailers.  The same thing happens with pellets and pellet bags.


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## dylskee (Aug 17, 2013)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> Timber Ridge is an England Stove Works stove sold through one channel and Summer's Heat is an England Stove Works stove sold through a different channel. Same stove different retailers. The same thing happens with pellets and pellet bags.


 Thanks Smokey, I just noticed my local lowes sells the 55-TRPEP cheaper than AM FM and I don't have to have it shipped risking damage to the stove.


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## Jaymaine34 (Aug 19, 2013)

Final install price 800.00 includes all venting materials . Just need to decide on stove . Was all set to pull the trigger on a new englander . But ran into echo choice ? Love my quad !


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## dylskee (Aug 19, 2013)

Jaymaine34 said:


> Final install price 800.00 includes all venting materials . Just need to decide on stove . Was all set to pull the trigger on a new englander . But ran into echo choice ? Love my quad !


 That's a reasonable price for sure, what part of the country are you in? I can't decide on a stove either, the Timber Ridge stoves have terrible reviews. Almost everyone complained about the stove shutting off on overnight burns, auger problems and pellets sticking to the sides of the hopper. I didn't want to put an expensive stove in the cellar but I don't want a piece of crap either. The more I research, the more uncertain I become.......


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## Jaymaine34 (Aug 19, 2013)

I'm in southern Maine . With the install price I got I'm looking to maybe put a little more money in the stove . My Quads have been trouble free ( going on season 4/5 ) just don't want to spend Quad money on the basement ! That's why I'm leaning towards the Echo ( all Quad parts for the most part and made at the same plant ) my local dealer has them for 1600.00 .
 Just shopping price the refurbs are still in the running . 
Plus now I get to buy more pellets !!


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## dylskee (Aug 19, 2013)

Jaymaine34 said:


> I'm in southern Maine . With the install price I got I'm looking to maybe put a little more money in the stove . My Quads have been trouble free ( going on season 4/5 ) just don't want to spend Quad money on the basement ! That's why I'm leaning towards the Echo ( all Quad parts for the most part and made at the same plant ) my local dealer has them for 1600.00 .
> Just shopping price the refurbs are still in the running .
> Plus now I get to buy more pellets !!


 Nice! I'm heading to Maine Thursday, Old Orchard Beach! I'm just hoping I can make up my mind within a couple weeks or so.....


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## Jaymaine34 (Aug 19, 2013)

funny I live and work 30 minutes from OOB and haven't been there for over 20 years . Was there every weekend as a kid . I do miss the pier fries maybe I need to make a run over . As a teenager I was a lifeguard there for a summer .


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## dylskee (Aug 20, 2013)

I'm going to go quality with this stove, I was going to go on the cheap side but after a lot of research I'd rather buy something that's going to run and run often. I got a price from a local stove dealer on a Quadra-Fire Santa-FE With all the venting for $2894. plus installation. Seems like a reasonable price??


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## dylskee (Aug 21, 2013)

To answer my own question, no.......
 I called a couple other dealers in my area and I can get a Harman P38 for $2190, $410. cheaper than the Quad. Depending on price, I might want to go with the P43 though, I would want the auto-ignition and the P38 doesn't offer that.


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## will711 (Aug 21, 2013)

dylskee said:


> I'm going to go quality with this stove


Get the Harman P43  it will set you free  now go enjoy your time at OOB


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## Jaymaine34 (Aug 21, 2013)

Dylskee
  Like you I have been putting a lot of mind time into this ! I was looking to spend as little as possible ! But when it comes down to it there are certain features I want 
1. Thermostat ( full on full off )
2. Large ash pan ( not gonna clean it everyday )
3. A brand I know and trust ( and a dealer to back it up )
4. Definitely don't want a stove that's picky about pellets ( spend a little more now save a lot more later )

So I guess for me it's gonna be a Quad I have 3 of them and love them . Easy to clean doesn't care what I feed it . Going to a couple local dealers over the next few weeks and see what I can find ( I would be happy with a store demo stove )
  Let me know what you find . When you make your way down to OOB there are several stove shops in the area ( all within 30 minutes ) best of luck !


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## dylskee (Aug 21, 2013)

will711 said:


> Get the Harman P43 it will set you free  now go enjoy your time at OOB


  I know, I'm a pain in the ass!! I just want to make sure I get something that I won't regret, that's why I'm leaning heavily towards the Harman. I started out shopping for price only, but I can't pull the trigger on a cheap stove. I set a budget of $3000. including installation and venting, I could do it with the P38. I'll probably have to save another $300-$500. more to go with the P43 but I think it's worth it.

I'm going to work tomorrow for a few hours than we're off to OOB for some well deserved R&R! Thank you for the reply will, have a good weekend!


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## will711 (Aug 21, 2013)

dylskee said:


> I know, I'm a pain in the ass!! I just want to make sure I get something that I won't regret, that's why I'm leaning heavily towards the Harman


No worries man , No buyers remorse with a Harman, yeah they cost a bit more. Read the last line in my sig

Have a great time


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## dylskee (Aug 21, 2013)

Jaymaine34 said:


> Dylskee
> Like you I have been putting a lot of mind time into this ! I was looking to spend as little as possible ! But when it comes down to it there are certain features I want
> 1. Thermostat ( full on full off )
> 2. Large ash pan ( not gonna clean it everyday )
> ...


I would have went with the Quad if they didn't try to gouge me on it, when I get back from the beach I'll get a stove ordered and finish with the 15 projects I have going on right now.....


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## dylskee (Aug 31, 2013)

FINALLY pulled the trigger on my new pellet stove this morning!  
Got a pretty good deal on a Qaudra-Fire Classic Bay 1200, $3873. installed and that includes everything. Sales tax, venting and installation. Now I have to finish cleaning out that basement...... Thanks to everyone for their input and help!


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## Jaymaine34 (Aug 31, 2013)

Nice choice ! You will be very happy ! Sounds like a fair price .


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## dylskee (Aug 31, 2013)

Jaymaine34 said:


> Nice choice ! You will be very happy ! Sounds like a fair price .


 Yes, I went in there and told her it's down to two dealers, her and a Harman dealer. And he gave me a decent price on the stove but I still had to settle on the venting and install, so I told her to give me her best price right out of the gate. She sat down with me and went through everything and gave me a pretty fair price for a great stove, I just finished cleaning the cellar out, well for the most part anyway...... The stove will be delivered and installed on Friday the 13th! I hope it goes well.......


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## dylskee (Sep 3, 2013)

I got a disheartening phone call from the stove dealer, after seeing my pictures I sent them of my basement they can't install my stove. The back side of my basement is fieldstone then 3 coarse of cinder block on top of that. They said I would be lucky to maintain 60 degrees because of the fieldstone, looks like I'm out of luck. They said it would be a waste of time and money trying to heat that space. Good thing my web order didn't go through on those pellets last night!


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## SmokeyTheBear (Sep 4, 2013)

dylskee said:


> I got a disheartening phone call from the stove dealer, after seeing my pictures I sent them of my basement they can't install my stove. The back side of my basement is fieldstone then 3 coarse of cinder block on top of that. They said I would be lucky to maintain 60 degrees because of the fieldstone, looks like I'm out of luck. They said it would be a waste of time and money trying to heat that space. Good thing my web order didn't go through on those pellets last night!



Well an honest dealer, he picked up on the third line in my comment here https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/adding-a-pellet-stove-to-the-cellar.112068/page-3#post-1494571 .

You may find that a little finishing of the basement walls (insulation) will do wonders.


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## Jaymaine34 (Sep 4, 2013)

Dylskee, sorry to hear it didn't work out ! I was looking into doing the samething . But the cost of doing it keep going up and up ! I know we are not the only ones in this situation . So I wonder if anyone has figured out away to get heat to their basement ? I know heat rises and this goes against everything we learned in school . But there's some pretty smart people on here ! 
My quad makes enough heat would just like some of it in the basement . My basement is finished and now I have a family member who will be staying with us over the winter ( I need to heat it ) if there's no way to get the heat down there what's the most cost affective way to heat 400 sq feet ( bedroom in basement ) will a space heater break the bank ?


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## SmokeyTheBear (Sep 4, 2013)

There are stoves that are certified for installing duct work to installing such a stove ould allow you to get heat into an insulated finished basement.

Other than that you are faced with the major basement issue, namely the massive heat sink of the foundations and that of getting usable heat out of the basement.

Installing a solid fuel stove in a bedroom also raises issues with both code enforcement folks and the stove maker not certifying their stoves for such use.

ETA: As for heat rising not so, hot air rises provided it is allowed to, this means cold air must fall somewhere, in other words you need to have a loop for the air to flow in.  Your stoves convection blower can start and maintain this loop provided there aren't any physical obstruction to the air flow.  This is a common problem discussed at length on here every couple of weeks.


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## Jaymaine34 (Sep 4, 2013)

Smokey,
  I hear what your saying ! I'm not looking to do anything unsafe ! Just wondering what others may have come up with ?
To be clear the basement is pretty open except the bedroom/ office space . Just looking at options and ideas .


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## movemaine (Sep 4, 2013)

I would also look at craigslist, and ask around at your local stove shops, as they often have floor models, returns, etc. that you can get cheaper.


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## jtakeman (Sep 4, 2013)

Jaymaine34 said:


> Smokey,
> I hear what your saying ! I'm not looking to do anything unsafe ! Just wondering what others may have come up with ?
> To be clear the basement is pretty open except the bedroom/ office space . Just looking at options and ideas .



 Look for a stove that allows ducting to be connected. Keep the stove out in the basement and duct the heat to the bedroom. Also put the stat in the bedroom

There are only a few stoves that allow ducting to be connected and most are on the big size, But if you only want to heat that room some of the European stoves have duct option and are smaller. Drolet eco65 has a plenum kit that allows 2 ducts. One could go to the upstairs.


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## dylskee (Sep 4, 2013)

I knew I wasn't going to be able to maintain 80 degrees in my basement without it being insulated but I wasn't expecting them to refuse an install. I have about 800 sq.ft. of the cellar I wanted to heat, and I chose a 47,000 BTU stove that will heat 2700 sq.ft. to do the job. I'm not looking to heat anything else but the cellar, I heat my first and second floor with my wood stove that sits in my living room. I heat my cellar with a space heater in the winter when I'm working down there so I would assume a pellet stove could do the same, no?

I will try to get the cellar insulated by next year but that's going to take some work and money. I'll have to frame the entire cellar, then insulate and sheetrock. But I really want a pellet stove down there so.......


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## Jaymaine34 (Sep 4, 2013)

Ok so I called my local fire Marshall . I can run a vent or a chase as long as it has a elbow on each end .
 I was thinking of a space heater maybe ? ( electric )
I was wondering what others have used ? I'm not looking to put in duct work .
Im just asking to see what others have come up with .
I also called my insurance company and as long as the fire Marshall sings off on it it's all good with them .
The funny thing is where I am ( Maine ) it's ok to run a Furance and a woodstove in the same flu !
 I'm not looking to do anything unsafe ! Again I'm just wondering what others have come up with . What has and hasn't worked .
FYI Smoke we live very close I'm only about a town or 2 over .


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## Jaymaine34 (Sep 4, 2013)

dylskee said:


> I knew I wasn't going to be able to maintain 80 degrees in my basement without it being insulated but I wasn't expecting them to refuse an install. I have about 800 sq.ft. of the cellar I wanted to heat, and I chose a 47,000 BTU stove that will heat 2700 sq.ft. to do the job. I'm not looking to heat anything else but the cellar, I heat my first and second floor with my wood stove that sits in my living room. I heat my cellar with a space heater in the winter when I'm working down there so I would assume a pellet stove could do the same, no?
> 
> I will try to get the cellar insulated by next year but that's going to take some work and money. I'll have to frame the entire cellar, then insulate and sheetrock. But I really want a pellet stove down there so.......


 I'm with you on this ! It's what I want just shocked by the install cost ! 
I love the heat and the looks of it ! I'm looking into another cb1200 ( if I own 4 do I win ? )


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## SmokeyTheBear (Sep 4, 2013)

dylskee said:


> I knew I wasn't going to be able to maintain 80 degrees in my basement without it being insulated but I wasn't expecting them to refuse an install. I have about 800 sq.ft. of the cellar I wanted to heat, and I chose a 47,000 BTU stove that will heat 2700 sq.ft. to do the job. I'm not looking to heat anything else but the cellar, I heat my first and second floor with my wood stove that sits in my living room. I heat my cellar with a space heater in the winter when I'm working down there so I would assume a pellet stove could do the same, no?
> 
> I will try to get the cellar insulated by next year but that's going to take some work and money. I'll have to frame the entire cellar, then insulate and sheetrock. But I really want a pellet stove down there so.......




It will heat the basement as far as it can given the heat loss of the basement itself.  Listen to jtakeman the guy is speaking from experience (learned by not following the basics in dealing with heat loss, etc...) both on heating from a basement and making certain that the stove can provide the horsepower to take care of the heat loss.

A number of stove shops will tell you that what you want to do is not likely to work and they refuse to install because they don't want you calling every day complaining that my x btu stove can't heat 400 square feet while it says it can heat up to 2500 square feet.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Sep 4, 2013)

Jaymaine34 said:


> Ok so I called my local fire Marshall . I can run a vent or a chase as long as it has a elbow on each end .
> I was thinking of a space heater maybe ? ( electric )
> I was wondering what others have used ? I'm not looking to put in duct work .
> Im just asking to see what others have come up with .
> ...




BTW: In Maine the running of two or more heating units into the same flue has a lot of restrictions on it.   The first one is that the use of multiple devices in that common flue be a prior use and that this use has not been allowed to lapse, in other words you must be replacing a portion of a used active heating system.

ETA: Be certain that the code enforcement officer approves as well sometimes what the fire folks say is fine isn't always code.


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## dylskee (Sep 4, 2013)

Jaymaine34 said:


> I'm with you on this ! It's what I want just shocked by the install cost !
> I love the heat and the looks of it ! I'm looking into another cb1200 ( if I own 4 do I win ? )


 If you own 4 they should give you one for free!!


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## dylskee (Sep 4, 2013)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> It will heat the basement as far as it can given the heat loss of the basement itself.  Listen to jtakeman the guy is speaking from experience (learned by not following the basics in dealing with heat loss, etc...) both on heating from a basement and making certain that the stove can provide the horsepower to take care of the heat loss.
> 
> A number of stove shops will tell you that what you want to do is not likely to work and they refuse to install because they don't want you calling every day complaining that my x btu stove can't heat 400 square feet while it says it can heat up to 2500 square feet.


 Yeah, I understand that Smokey and that's exactly what he said to me. He said I would not be happy with the stove If the space isn't insulated. Believe me, I'm not mad at the dealer for refusing to install just disappointed I can't get the stove I really wanted. The dealer was very nice to me and extremely helpful, I visited 5 dealers and they were hands down the best by far. I will definitely return to them for a stove when the time should present itself.


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## Jaymaine34 (Sep 4, 2013)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> BTW: In Maine the running of two or more heating units into the same flue has a lot of restrictions on it.   The first one is that the use of multiple devices in that common flue be a prior use and that this use has not been allowed to lapse, in other words you must be replacing a portion of a used active heating system.
> 
> ETA: Be certain that the code enforcement officer approves as well sometimes what the fire folks say is fine isn't always code.


Smokey ,
  To be clear I'm not thinking of doing any of those things ! There will be another pellet stove on its own flu . If not this year then next . Just trying to figure out what I might do for this winter . Do you think a space heater could pull this off and not break the bank ?


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## dylskee (Sep 4, 2013)

My two sons use space heaters on a part time basis throughout the winter when they're home and it destroys my electric bill! It added $200. a month to my bill, my electric bill is high anyway for the most part.

I'm trying to login to my electric bill online to get my past usage and I'll give you some numbers if I can remember the password!


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## Jaymaine34 (Sep 4, 2013)

dylskee said:


> My two sons use space heaters on a part time basis throughout the winter when they're home and it destroys my electric bill! It added $200. a month to my bill, my electric bill is high anyway for the most part.
> 
> I'm trying to login to my electric bill online to get my past usage and I'll give you some numbers if I can remember the password!


Wow ! I guess scratch that idea ! I have 4 children ( all of them think lights only turn on !)
We average about 200-225 electric ( this summer with a/c and the pool and shop fridge ) was close to 400 for the past 2 bills . 
I almost dropped when I saw them . 
  I installed motion activated light switches in all of their rooms . Great kids just can't remember to turn anything off !!


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## BrotherBart (Sep 5, 2013)

Three years ago I put an Englander 25PDVC on the flue in the 1,000 sq. ft. un-insulated basement replacing the wood stove I used when I had my office down there. I just fire it an hour before I need to work down there on occasion and the place is comfy anytime in the winter. And nothing has broken, busted or got disgusted in three years. Gotta clean it this year I guess. I run it overnight sometimes in the Fall and Spring to keep the chill off of the 2,500 sq. ft. sitting on top of that basement when I don't want to fire the wood eater.

I wouldn't spend three grand to heat a basement on a bet. Yeah there is tremendous heat loss through the walls to the the dirt.


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## dylskee (Sep 11, 2013)

So if the vent pipe is 3" diameter and I cut a 3-1/4" diameter hole through the block what do you seal the gaps with? I can go out the other wall and go up a few feet and then vent, I don't have to go out the other wall and go 12' up so the install should be a little easier. I just need to research a little more on the venting and I should be good to go. Thanks in advance for any tips......


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## SmokeyTheBear (Sep 12, 2013)

High temperature silicone sealant is used to seal around the vent penetrations in stone work.  Use at least 500 clear stuff.


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