# Oceans filling up with plastic



## Seasoned Oak (May 24, 2014)

Seems every week there is more bad news on the condition of the oceans. For those of us who eat a lot of seafood its disconcerting to hear we may be eating plastic soup with every meal.I guess its true everything eventually does wind up in the ocean. How is this affecting the food we harvest from the sea? It cant be good for our health.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/...out-100-000-000-000-000-Particles-of-Plastic#


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## BrotherBart (May 24, 2014)

Water full of plastic and fish poop. No wonder I don't eat much fish.


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## begreen (May 24, 2014)

Cows are not safe either.

http://www.ibtimes.com/beef-recall-...r-plastic-found-national-school-lunch-program


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## BrotherBart (May 24, 2014)

Koo Koo Ka Choo Mrs. Robinson.


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## BrotherBart (May 24, 2014)

begreen said:


> Cows are not safe either.



At least they are smart enough not to eat the dang stuff.


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## begreen (May 25, 2014)

I wouldn't bet on that.
http://www.itla.net/longhorn_information/index.cfm?con=plastic
http://www.cattletoday.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=53494


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## Doug MacIVER (May 25, 2014)

people stupid or lack common sense


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## woodgeek (May 25, 2014)

Ok.  Cattle can die when they eat plastic twine, and there are approximately 200,000,000,000,000 pieces of *microscopic* plastic lint fibers frozen in artic sea ice.  Same stuff you pull out of your dryer every week.  (article drops 3 zeros in headline)

Cows will get impacted by eating lint fibers from melting sea ice?


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## Where2 (May 25, 2014)

Doug MacIVER said:


> people stupid or lack common sense


...to deal with glass bottles. Remember the days when you cut your feet open at the beach on all the pop top tabs and bottle caps littering the shore?


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## My Oslo heats my home (May 25, 2014)

recycling seems like a hassle to most people in these fast paced times.


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## Seasoned Oak (May 25, 2014)

No matter how polluted water may get , rainwater has the benefit of a complete cleansing with each rain/evaporation cycle. Only danger there is air pollution getting picked up on the way down. Luckily the air in the US seems to be getting cleaner, but we now get pollutants from china and asia traveling east. The ocean on the other hand will have this plastic problem and pollution for many generations to come.


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## Doug MacIVER (May 25, 2014)

Seasoned Oak said:


> No matter how polluted water may get , rainwater has the benefit of a complete cleansing with each rain/evaporation cycle. Only danger there is air pollution getting picked up on the way down. Luckily the air in the US seems to be getting cleaner, but we now get pollutants from china and asia traveling east. The ocean on the other hand will have this plastic problem and pollution for many generations to come.


remember acid rain? we shouldn't have any fresh water life by now! still there but corrected the ph  and probably over hyped, still a positive for mother nature and man . ever try to grow grass under an oak? plastic disposal is human lazzzzzzzzzzzzzzziness showing! hanover, mass. still has yet to have mandatory recycling?


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## woodgeek (May 25, 2014)

Acid rain didn't magically go away.  It went away because of govt mandated reductions in SO2 emission, billions of dollars in scrubbers, refinery refits, finding different coal sources, a process that is still underway with ULSD.  I guess it was a bunch of hype.  You don't hear much about that ozone hole thing anymore either, whats up with that?

Had some copper flashing put on my roof a few years ago.  Darn stuff turned brown instead of green.  Apparently not enough SO2 in the air these days to make it turn green.


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## Doug MacIVER (May 25, 2014)

we have recycled since the 1950's on. boxes, unless destroyed. each one used saves $. steel screen from stihl face sceens $. cardboard $ (from disposal). leather offal to polish stainless chain  $, poly foam to foam recycle no $ ($ for no disposal).


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## Doug MacIVER (May 25, 2014)

woodgeek said:


> Acid rain didn't magically go away.  It went away because of govt mandated reductions in SO2 emission, billions of dollars in scrubbers, refinery refits, finding different coal sources, a process that is still underway with ULSD.  I guess it was a bunch of hype.  You don't hear much about that ozone hole thing anymore either, whats up with that?
> 
> Had some copper flashing put on my roof a few years ago.  Darn stuff turned brown instead of green.  Apparently not enough SO2 in the air these days to make it turn green.


never implied it's magic


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## Doug MacIVER (May 25, 2014)

Hollywood doing it's part adding?


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## Seasoned Oak (May 25, 2014)

Streams and waterways are getting progressively cleaner around here. The local sewer auth is currently building a new (GIANT $40 million project) Sewer plant  to deal with new Govt mandates on nitrogen. I guess its a good thing despite the high cost for such a small town. Local coal operators still pollute streams legally with regularity.They discharge their black water at night so it dont look so bad.


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## begreen (May 25, 2014)

My Oslo heats my home said:


> recycling seems like a hassle to most people in these fast paced times.


Not true. It takes collective will and a good system. Seattle is doing well at recycling in these fast paced times. They recycle about 60%! of all trash now. And much of Europe including Paris is good at recycling. Actually all of France. They have a national recycling program.  Make it simple, cheap and ubiquitous and it will happen. Why pay for expensive garbage collection when recycling is free?

PS: Why the hell aren't soda can rings biodegradable


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## Doug MacIVER (May 25, 2014)

begreen said:


> Not true. It takes collective will and a good system. Seattle is doing well at recycling in these fast paced times. They recycle about 60%! of all trash now. And much of Europe including Paris is good at recycling. Actually all of France. They have a national recycling program.  Make it simple, cheap and ubiquitous and it will happen. Why pay for expensive garbage collection when recycling is free?
> 
> PS: Why the hell aren't soda can rings biodegradable


anybody know if this a Huntsman product? talk all you will about kock bros.  huntsman should be thinking their business?


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## Doug MacIVER (May 25, 2014)

I love to pick on the styro and poly guys. we are a subcontract mfg of insulated bags to medical industry. insulation recyclable polyester and denim. styro a thing of past eventually. imagine a box insulated with old dungarees and aluminum, well they are out there.


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## Mt Bob (May 25, 2014)

begreen said:


> Not true. It takes collective will and a good system. Seattle is doing well at recycling in these fast paced times. They recycle about 60%! of all trash now. And much of Europe including Paris is good at recycling. Actually all of France. They have a national recycling program.  Make it simple, cheap and ubiquitous and it will happen. Why pay for expensive garbage collection when recycling is free?
> 
> PS: Why the hell aren't soda can rings biodegradable


 That is a good question begreen.Those rings are advertised as "90 day photodegradable" but real testing proves otherwise.Heck they make grocery bags that rot so fast they cannot make it from the store to my house.


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## My Oslo heats my home (May 25, 2014)

begreen said:


> Not true. It takes collective will and a good system. Seattle is doing well at recycling in these fast paced times. They recycle about 60%! of all trash now. And much of Europe including Paris is good at recycling. Actually all of France. They have a national recycling program.  Make it simple, cheap and ubiquitous and it will happen. Why pay for expensive garbage collection when recycling is free?
> 
> 
> PS: Why the hell aren't soda can rings biodegradable



Seattle and the rest of the world could be doing well at recycling but it's not true everywhere. Unfortunately the east coast does not have as good a reputation as other places. The rules are not nearly as strict as they should be here. We have trash pickup and the rule is; the recycle bin has to be out at the curb ad there has to be at least one item in it in oder to have your trash taken. It's sad but true, people actually do just that. As I said, it's a hassle to some to actually put an effort into keeping green green. 
And New York City, last I knew they shipped a portion of their trash out to sea, hence the plastic soda can rings


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## begreen (May 25, 2014)

We've been recycling for the past 35 years. The last 20 in a rural area. The effort is minimal. I wouldn't have it any other way.


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## Doug MacIVER (May 25, 2014)

like I've said. Hanover, Mass zero mandatory recycle mandates. hey, if you want to, ok. if not, ok. hell everything goes to semass from here and powers  nastygrid.  then they recycle the rest of the stuff.  the town loses the recycle profit.(if there is any)


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## My Oslo heats my home (May 25, 2014)

begreen said:


> We've been recycling for the past 35 years. The last 20 in a rural area. The effort is minimal. I wouldn't have it any other way.


I wouldn't have it any other way either, I make the effort despite what this part of the country does as a whole. 15 years ago I might have put out 3 full bags of trash for a weeks worth. Today it's closer to a 1/2 bag and 2 full recycle bins. I have a clear conscience on wednesday mornings


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## My Oslo heats my home (May 25, 2014)

Doug MacIVER said:


> like I've said. Hanover, Mass zero mandatory recycle mandates. hey, if you want to, ok. if not, ok. hell everything goes to semass from here and powers  nastygrid.  then they recycle the rest of the stuff.  the town loses the recycle profit.(if there is any)


Hanover also has a station you have to bring the trash and recycle to, no pickup. Hard to control the goings on in a place like that. The good part, just as in Rockland (where I am), that the trash goes to semass. The trash is burned and turned into energy.


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## Doug MacIVER (May 25, 2014)

My Oslo heats my home said:


> Hanover also has a station you have to bring the trash and recycle to, no pickup. Hard to control the goings on in a place like that. The good part, just as in Rockland (where I am), that the trash goes to semass. The trash is burned and turned into energy.


hangover is the typical no service town, big tax, police, fire ,water, highway, end of service. 2015 all of hangover's poop goes in the ground water? don't know what the tax, h2o, sewer bill, would be if?


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## My Oslo heats my home (May 25, 2014)

Looks are everything. You border Norwell and are very close to Hingham.


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## My Oslo heats my home (May 25, 2014)

Looks are everything. You border Norwell and are very close to Hingham.


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## woodgeek (May 25, 2014)

begreen said:


> PS: Why the hell aren't soda can rings biodegradable



They have all been made of a photodegradable polymer (<90 days degradation time) since the 90s.

Most animal strangulations are from discarded fishing equipment, not residential garbage.


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## Seasoned Oak (May 26, 2014)

True recycling will not happen under the present system. As long as there is no significant cost to just tossing everything into a landfill,nothing will improve. Plastic bags really need to be phased out. Systems put in place to keep plastic out of waterways and ultimately a move toward changing to an economy less dependent on plastic packaging. A tax on plastic would probably do the trick.It would quickly be replace with a different material or a biodegradable form of plastic. Its hard to put a price on a dying polluted ocean.


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## begreen (May 26, 2014)

woodgeek said:


> They have all been made of a photodegradable polymer (<90 days degradation time) since the 90s.
> 
> Most animal strangulations are from discarded fishing equipment, not residential garbage.



Tell that to the turtle. What if the rings don't see sunlight?


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## woodgeek (May 26, 2014)

begreen said:


> Tell that to the turtle. What if the rings don't see sunlight?



They float and still degrade while floating. That turtle, 'Peanut', despite being a Facebook sensation in 2013, was found in *1993*.

http://inhabitat.com/peanut-the-story-behind-the-poor-sea-turtle-deformed-by-a-six-pack-ring/

Volunteers that clean beaches say the marine animal strangulations are from discarded plastic fishing lines and nets.  A much bigger problem than the occasional small piece of beach litter.

Should we try to fix the marine pollution problem based on what circulates on Facebook, or when DKos tells us there are 200 trillion pieces of microscopic lint fibers frozen in the Artic sea ice?  Or should we try to find a solution to discarded fishing equipment?


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## Seasoned Oak (May 26, 2014)

It looks like the fish and sea life that the world population depends on will at some point  become inedible. The cause will be all of the above. From clothes fibres to waste plastic to a myriad  of other substances that flush into the waterways such as millions of pounds of pharmaceuticals that pass through our bodies and also pass just as quickly through sewage treatment plants. This stuff affects all sea life. The occasional sea critter getting caught in a six pack ring is not the main problem IMO.


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## begreen (May 26, 2014)

woodgeek said:


> They float and still degrade while floating. That turtle, 'Peanut', despite being a Facebook sensation in 2013, was found in *1993*.
> 
> http://inhabitat.com/peanut-the-story-behind-the-poor-sea-turtle-deformed-by-a-six-pack-ring/
> 
> ...



Thanks for the corrected info woodgeek. I found the CFR for six-pack rings and see it was implemented in 1994. That would make it the year after the photo. My confusion is that some articles state that only some states (16 mentioned) enforce this rule.
http://www.whoi.edu/science/B/people/kamaral/plasticsarticle.html

I agree we should go after the largest problems first including discarded fishing gear and nets. The other issue is that although it is illegal for the world's merchant fleets to dump waste into the oceans, they still do and there is no one out there to see it happening or to enforce a violation.  SO is correct to point out that the huge amount of ocean plastic will come back to haunt us. Especially those populations that eat a lot of fish.
http://www.nature.com/srep/2013/131121/srep03263/full/srep03263.html


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## woodgeek (May 26, 2014)

begreen said:


> Thanks for the corrected info woodgeek. I found the CFR for six-pack rings and see it was implemented in 1994. That would make it the year after the photo. My confusion is that some articles state that only some states (16 mentioned) enforce this rule.
> http://www.whoi.edu/science/B/people/kamaral/plasticsarticle.html
> 
> I agree we should go after the largest problems first including discarded fishing gear and nets. The other issue is that although it is illegal for the world's merchant fleets to dump waste into the oceans, they still do and there is no one out there to see it happening or to enforce a violation.  SO is correct to point out that the huge amount of ocean plastic will come back to haunt us. Especially those populations that eat a lot of fish.
> http://www.nature.com/srep/2013/131121/srep03263/full/srep03263.html



This plastic industry webpage says the federal law passed in 1989, and that 26 states have also passed laws.  The bibliography on the thesis you sourced from WHOI ends in 1994, suggesting that was when it was written.  How it missed the fed law in 89 is unknown.

http://www.plasticsindustry.org/Press/content.cfm?ItemNumber=712&navItemNumber=1324


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## WiscWoody (Jun 4, 2014)

You can have a good recycling program in place but there has to be a demand for the returned product. I know that glass recycles easily and it takes less energy to melt. (From a former Brockway Glass Co. employee...) and paper if sorted right can recycle well and reduce energy used to make pulp. I'm not so sure if there is enough uses for reclaimed plastic. Maybe, but I'm no expert.

A few years a go our Governor wanted to dump the whole recycling program because the recession had made it hard to sell recycled product and it was costing the state to get rid of it. Luckily the state workers who spent a lot of time and effort to implement the program convinced him to keep it since they said it wasn't easy to implement it! We still have the program and it is doing good once again.


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