# Was bored and tried something of interest



## musclecar joe (Nov 9, 2010)

I was bored on Sunday as the Steelers were not playing so I fabricated a Pellet Basket (http://www.thepelleteer.com/) to see if it would work in my Econoburn 150. I thought "Hmmmm....this might work... same principle of gasification..."  so it tried it. I built the basket for about $30. It was able to hold about 40lbs of wood pellets. I lit it and it and it burned for about 5 hours. my boiler had no problem building up to 180 +' and it was produced excess heat.  An Interesting thought occurred to me. If I had a pellet mill and/or a hammer mill I could actually produce pellets out of straw,grass,leaves, sawdust or anything that is readily available for little to no cost with minimal work and I could use the wood boiler I already have. All I would have to do, is build a bigger basket (I feel I can fit 100+lbs. of pellets in it) 

my son who helps me cut and split the wood (10 cords) is encouraging me to continue to experiment and seriously consider moving to the use pellets in our boiler. He mentioned building a silo behind the garage where I house my boiler so that we could load the pellets into it with our skid steer and gravity flow them into the garage as need to load the boiler. (funny how all that work splitting and cutting makes you think of ways that are easier on the body)

The biggest problem is, I would have to produce somewhere around 20 ton of pellets to meet my needs, I guess its all relative to 10 cord of wood i use now. I have to say I am intrigued by the idea of a totally mechanized production system of the pellets using what I have readily available on my property. My cost to buy a pellet mill and hammer mill would be about $5000.

Love to hear your thoughts?

Musclecar Joe
Econoburn 150


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## jebatty (Nov 9, 2010)

An idea worth exploring. Will you provide a picture of the pellet basket you made?


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## Nofossil (Nov 9, 2010)

I'll second the RFP (Request For Picture). I'm assuming it would work for wood chips as well?


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## leaddog (Nov 9, 2010)

nofossil said:
			
		

> I'll second the RFP (Request For Picture). I'm assuming it would work for wood chips as well?



wood chips would be easier to produce. You might also explore cherry pits and peach pits if they are in your area. Keep us posted as it's something I've thought about also.
leaddog


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## Mushroom Man (Nov 9, 2010)

I am very interested in your basket idea. It seems to me that a basket designed for synthetic logs or pucks might work as well as pellets and require a little less work since the "grass logs" would be larger than pellets and thus require less handling.

I think the basket idea is very good though.

Compressing the biomass (straw, leaves, switchgrass, miscanthus) seems to me to be the most challenging element of the puzzle.

I too welcome a picture.


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## twitch (Nov 9, 2010)

This is definitely interesting!  How did you end up lighting it? A couple of questions for everyone.

Do you think just putting a grate made of that material on the bottom of a boiler would work, instead of a basket?

I don't have storage, and wonder how it would handle idling.


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## Briquetmaker (Nov 9, 2010)

I have had the same thoughts about this for almost two years. I have finally done it. I own a cabinet shop and produce a lot of sawdust and had to pay to have it taken away. Plus a tractor trailer parked in my driveway. So I purchased a Wiema briquet press the end of last year and I think I have made enough to get me through the winter. I am planning on buying 10lb potato bags to fill with the briquets and think 3 to 4 bags will fit in my Solo 60. I will be firing it up this weekend.


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## leaddog (Nov 10, 2010)

The problem as I see it is to get the gas to burn. I don't see how you will get a coal bed to have the gas fire off if the grate is off the nozzles. In a gasifier it won't do to just burn it like a regular stove. One possibility is to do like a barbecue and use lava rocks over the nozzle with the basket very close. but the ash would then the be a problem. It will be interesting to see how it works and whether you get good gasification.
leaddog


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## musclecar joe (Nov 10, 2010)

as far as the "pellet basket" my camera does not work so all you have to do is go to the website in my original post. there is a picture of a the manufacturers basket there. as you will see it is quite simple to fabricate yourself. mine is identical. 
If i can get my camera to work i will post my own picture or video. the only difference in my basket is I had to make it so it would fit through the door and drop into the boiler. I am quite sure i could simply add an extention to it as a second piece to accommodate more pellets. It was not a tight fit once inside the boiler, so air could circulate around the entire basket. there is about 1 inch clearance on all sides. as far as lighting the pellets I just used some fire starter gel and lit it with a lighter.

I like the wood chip idea. I have a pile a local tree company dumped on my property and I will try it out this weekend and report how it worked. the compressed pucks are interesting as well. 

thanks,

musclecar joe
econoburn 150


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## leaddog (Nov 10, 2010)

musclecar joe said:
			
		

> as far as the "pellet basket" my camera does not work so all you have to do is go to the website in my original post. there is a picture of a the manufacturers basket there. as you will see it is quite simple to fabricate yourself. mine is identical.
> If i can get my camera to work i will post my own picture or video. the only difference in my basket is I had to make it so it would fit through the door and drop into the boiler. I am quite sure i could simply add an extention to it as a second piece to accommodate more pellets. It was not a tight fit once inside the boiler, so air could circulate around the entire basket. there is about 1 inch clearance on all sides. as far as lighting the pellets I just used some fire starter gel and lit it with a lighter.
> 
> I like the wood chip idea. I have a pile a local tree company dumped on my property and I will try it out this weekend and report how it worked. the compressed pucks are interesting as well.
> ...



Are you getting a good Gasification burn in the lower chamber?
leaddog


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## musclecar joe (Nov 10, 2010)

yes i did get gasification. actually quite good.  I did get my camera to work. i think i attached it to this post. if nothing is there then i need to get more help from someone more computer savy.


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## leaddog (Nov 10, 2010)

musclecar joe said:
			
		

> yes i did get gasification. actually quite good.  I did get my camera to work. i think i attached it to this post. if nothing is there then i need to get more help from someone more computer savy.


Thanks. Keep us posted. It will ber interesting on how the basket holds up. You might have to use some stainless on the bottem to make it last longer as I've melted nails some what in my eko.
leaddog


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## wood thing (Nov 10, 2010)

that looks great.  I'm getting turned on by the idea and want to try it myself.  Is that metal lath you used ?


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## arrowe44 (Nov 10, 2010)

Las winter I tried a bag of locally produced industrial size pellets ( about 3 in cyl ). Dumped in on some paper and lite, pushed start, the n got busy and forgot to monitor. after a few hours opened door on eko 40 and nothing but glowing fire brick pile of glowing ash. Decided to use the rest fire starting using only a few ata time. They produce heat but didn't think the fire brick would last as long as I hadn't seen the fire brick that color using dry wood.


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## mwk1000 (Nov 10, 2010)

I was thinking many of these same thoughts. I looked at this gadget as a way to make pellets for my eko but it's not here (US) yet and I'm not sure on the lifespan of the drum. But funny how many are all thinking of ways to use other biomass to burn.

http://www.ecoworxx.com/index_en.html

50kg / hour and I was thinking of a simple grate system to close up the slots a bit. ( I also had the exact same thought on the lava rock,  funny ). I saw some simple cast iron grates that would lay over the slots at tractor supply. They only had small pellets or I might have bough a bag or two to try, This gadget above had at 20 mm diameter pellet ( I think )

The pellets seem to be denser so you would need less, as well as the moisture is controlled as part of the high pressure process to make them. Seemed nice to be able to use whatever was handy to heat your home.

That steel looks perfect to just lay a piece say 6"x 30" over the slots and try it out. What is it called, where do you buy it ?


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## Adios Pantalones (Nov 10, 2010)

I'd consult the pellet pigs- there was some serious concern about using a lot of certain biomasses (grasses etc) in pellets, but I don't remember the specifics.  There was some chemical reason to avoid it in large quantities.


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## musclecar joe (Nov 10, 2010)

mwk1000 said:
			
		

> I was thinking many of these same thoughts. I looked at this gadget as a way to make pellets for my eko but it's not here (US) yet and I'm not sure on the lifespan of the drum. But funny how many are all thinking of ways to use other biomass to burn.
> 
> http://www.ecoworxx.com/index_en.html
> 
> ...





I bought the grating new at a local salvage yard that sells steel also. 4x8 sheet was $75. I used most of it to build cooking grate for a hog roaster. I used what was left over to build the basket. I am sure the larger briquettes would work better than pellets with the larger size and I think youu are correct I think as you say laying a piece of metal grating  or installing a grate of sorts would work and allow you to really load up the boiler.  I have found quite a few briquette presses on line but they are quite expensive.


musclecar joe.
Econoburn 150


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## wvwoodchuck (Nov 10, 2010)

I'm kind of curious about this.  How would this work (pellets)  in a non-gasser boiler?


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## musclecar joe (Nov 10, 2010)

wvwoodchuck said:
			
		

> I'm kind of curious about this.  How would this work (pellets)  in a non-gasser boiler?



Mine is a gaser. however I think you can do the same with a non gaser by controling the air with your draft, I know people tend to choke down the wood fire so it smolders the wood to get a longer burn time.  I assume it would work the same but you may have to open the draft more. I tend to think you might have less creasote build up in your chimney using the pellets or the briquettes. dont quote me, i am just guessing.  try it out. 

musclecar joe


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## ssupercoolss (Nov 11, 2010)

that grating is called expanded steel.  (fyi)  interesting experiment as i have been looking at the bio brick things for extended burn times in my boiler.  havent gotten my hands on any yet, though.

the only problem i have with your first experiment is the cost....that bag of pellets cost about 5 bucks.  now obviously cost isnt an issue if you can make your own.  thats why i run my boiler more than the pellet stove.  my wood is free, but with my conventional boiler my burn times are pretty weak.


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## Mushroom Man (Nov 11, 2010)

I agree with leaddog that the gasifier requires a coal bed before gasification can be accomplished. The best we can hope for with alternative fuels like grasses is a co-firing with wood that will build that coal bed and make gasification possible.

It does seem possible to me that wood pellets might create their own coal bed.

Without the wood I think we likely will not see the advantage of gasification and therefore will burn more materials at lower efficiency.

I am curious though whether the Europeans who have been using this gasification technology longer have found methods to burn biomass crops without co-firing and yet still attain effective gasification.


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## musclecar joe (Nov 11, 2010)

as far as coal beds, i had a great coal bed of smoldering pellets pretty much the whole time except for the very end. there was no problem achieving gasification. from a cold start up i think you may want to start with wood at first but otherwise it was great.  I would really like to get my hands on bio bricks or bio pucks to try. those being larger i dont know if it could create the coal bed you all have talked about.  if someone out there has any bio bricks let me know how they work.

m-joe


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## Briquetmaker (Jan 30, 2011)

I have been making the pucks (all hardwood) since May last year and burning the Pucks this winter and have found they burn very well and very hot but do not last long. Six 10lb bags burn about three hours. They are very convenient but I think I may run out before winter ends so I am thinking of mixing some cord wood to get a little longer burn. The briquets burn so hot it make it hard to control the secodary air. This is my first year with heating a wood boiler. Lot to learn.
Attached are some pictures of the briquets and baging. I wanted to post a picture of them burning but didn't have the camera at work


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## mr.fixit (Jan 31, 2011)

Thats the nicest boiler room I've ever seen Briquetmaker! Very impressive. I might try one of the small pellet mills just to use the sawdust for something useful.It looks like you have your system set up nice.Get back to work tomorrow and make some more sawdust!


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## huffdawg (Jan 31, 2011)

Wow what a boiler room.    Thats awesome!     I wished Id seen this before I started piping mine the other day it would of been a good reference .

Huff


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## shortline (Jan 31, 2011)

Andy,
Have you collected enough data yet to calculate your return on investment?  Does the Tarm emit any visible smoke while burning the briquets?


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## Briquetmaker (Jan 31, 2011)

I haven't pulled it all together yet. I want to put an hour meter on the oil boiler to keep tabs on the run time while I'm away. I know I burned about $5800 in fuel oil last heating season. This winter I'm at $850. A rough guess would be about 5 years for ROI. I see hardly any smoke when the briquets get going.


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## Briquetmaker (Jan 31, 2011)

I wanted to post a picture of the briquets burning


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## shortline (Feb 1, 2011)

Briquetmaker said:
			
		

> I haven't pulled it all together yet. I want to put an hour meter on the oil boiler to keep tabs on the run time while I'm away. I know I burned about $5800 in fuel oil last heating season. This winter I'm at $850. A rough guess would be about 5 years for ROI.



Wow the Weimar must have cost a shiny penny! But I get excited about heating with waste. Great pics too!  Thanks for sharing.


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## Briquetmaker (Feb 4, 2011)

Thank you everyone for the great comments. It was a fun project. I plan on a few tweaks in the summer and adding another 200gal of storage. My briquet press was a no-brainer, got rid of a 48ft trailer in my yard and a 10hp blower  to get the saw dust into it and not to mention swapping out the trailers in the winter/rotten weather. That alone saved me about 2-3 thousand a year.  I had gotten quotes to replace my oil boiler and pre plumb for the wood boiler coming in at 19 - 22K. They're nuts. I bought both boilers and all the parts for $19,500 and did the install on my own. The Tarm guys were a great help. I followed the Tarm drawings as close as possible and got great support from them as I was doing the install. It's hard trying to take a 1D drawing and putting into 3D. My head was spinning but when I got it it got even more exiting until my shoulders couldn't take threading any more pipe. I think in the long run it was a great thing to do. The first thing I do when I get to work is turn the BLT control to wood only. $3.20 a gal@ 2.5 gal/hr. I do want to put the hour meter on the oil boiler to really get an accurate cost. Anyway thanks again


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## kielka (Feb 5, 2011)

Briquetmaker, What year scandtec is that and model? looks Mine is a solo plus 40 that i bought in 2008. Just curious cause it looks different. BTW.... Absolutely AWESOME Boiler room!! I installed my boiler is in a shed outside and and let's just say your install is very nice   I told my wife to check out that pic and she just goes "your jealous, aren't you". I just said yes, lol.  looks like a great install for 19500. Mine ran me about 10,000 or so.


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## Briquetmaker (Feb 8, 2011)

Mine is a 2009 Solo Plus 60 and because of the hot fires with the briquets I added turbulators. Stack temps have been more steady with them


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## PassionForFire&Water (Feb 8, 2011)

wvwoodchuck said:
			
		

> I'm kind of curious about this. How would this work (pellets) in a non-gasser boiler?



I tried this 4 to 5 years ago.
It works great as long as you have primary combustion air on top, not an underburn. You need a top down burn.
With an underburn the pellets suffocate the fire and you get a lot of smoke.

Only one practical problem, all pellets are sold in plastic bags.
It would be easier if they would make them available in paper bags.
I don't like the idea of buying bulk and bag them myself


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