# Septic system advice



## Bobbin (Aug 21, 2014)

Inherited home (one sibling as "partner"), NH property.  System is 40 yrs. old and the exisiting tank is _metal_ (500gal.).  House has been basically vacant for 10 yrs. (occasional spring/summer/fall use).  A lot of roots were  removed 2-3 yrs. ago but the dreaded slow flush of the "important stuff" is now upon us.  Next step?

I suspect it will be a complete re-do to properly address the doo-doo.  What do you recommend as the first step? engineer?  I really need a basic step by step primer.  We're on the fence about keeping the place or selling it and I believe (either way) resolving the septic issue is job #1.


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## heat seeker (Aug 21, 2014)

Sounds like the roots are back in the pipe. You could rent a roto-rooter, or hire someone. You could also hire a guy with a camera to send down there to see what's going on. It's my experience that once the roots get in there, it's an ongoing battle to keep them from clogging the pipe. 

If you have a reliable septic company, have them come out and do an assessment.

You won't be able to sell the place without a good septic system. Anyone with two neurons to rub together would get a home inspection done before purchasing the house.

So when you do fix it, you may decide to stay there, anyway.


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## Bobbin (Aug 21, 2014)

"To sell  or not to sell, that is the question".  Regardless, I know we'll have to deal with the septic issue.  My brother is debating a "fix", but frankly, IMO the only real "fix" is replacement.  It's nigh on time and we both know it, but one of us is still battling denial (IMO).  I need  to familiarize myself with the step-by-step process.  Forewarned is forearmed, you know?


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## Clarkbug (Aug 21, 2014)

Find out what sort or permit or testing is needed for your area first.  Then you will know what else you need.  Most excavating guys near you know the drill, and can provide the services you need.

IMO, replace it all, then list that as a selling point.  The fix might not work, and any buyer will be leery of the tank, or their inspector might be.


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## Bobbin (Aug 21, 2014)

If you have to replace an "existing" system (failed/failing) is it necessary to start from scratch; perc. tests/etc.? (suspect so).  We wouldn't be interested in increasing the capacity, but any replacement must clearly be an updated version of the exhausted one (same bedroom # and bathroom#).  Existing system is in ground and I recall hearing "marl" mentioned a lot when it was installed... as a kid I recall that there was a lot of "vanilla" colored clay around the footings for the original footprint of what is now the house.  I cringe at the spectre of a raised system, but it's necessary, so be it; it's important!


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## peakbagger (Aug 21, 2014)

If you suspect the septic system is marginal you will need to disclose it to future buyer and 99% of the time unless its cash sale, you will have to have the system inspected and tested. So its choice of fix it yourself or have the cost to fix it deducted from the house sale. Most buyers will keep walking unless its fixed.

You really need to figure out if the problem is in the pipes going from the house or in the field. If you can open the tank you can "stick" it to determine the solids build up. Basically find a good long stick and push it down to the bottom od the tank. If there are solids near the level of the outlet, figure the field is probably shot. Many folks just get the tank pumped and live with a marginal field. Okay for occasional use but a PITA when it back up during a party. If you get it pumped, flush the toilet a couple of times and observe the flow into the tank, if it gushes right in the inlet pipes are probably good but it is slow the pipe may be plugged with roots or crushed.

NH does require a permit prepared by a state licensed designer but if its an existing system they have to give you a permit to replace it in kind. Check out a Presby System, the drain field is much smaller than a standard one and if you are in clay soils odds are you need to haul in additional gravel to raise the system. This also means that you may need to be put in pump up system. The permit can take several weeks.


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## Warm_in_NH (Aug 21, 2014)

Keep in mind that the slow flow out of the house could merely be a root in the pipe between the house and the tank and if the gods are smiling on you the rest of it is okay for now. In that case a fix would be a new run of pipe from house to tank and with minimal use it'll last forever.
However, in a sale situation a metal tank should set off alarm bells to any buyer.


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## begreen (Aug 22, 2014)

Bobbin said:


> If you have to replace an "existing" system (failed/failing) is it necessary to start from scratch; perc. tests/etc.? (suspect so).  We wouldn't be interested in increasing the capacity, but any replacement must clearly be an updated version of the exhausted one (same bedroom # and bathroom#).  Existing system is in ground and I recall hearing "marl" mentioned a lot when it was installed... as a kid I recall that there was a lot of "vanilla" colored clay around the footings for the original footprint of what is now the house.  I cringe at the spectre of a raised system, but it's necessary, so be it; it's important!



This depends on the property and local regs. If a total rebuild then are you talking drainfield too? Or will replacing the tank and connecting plumbing to the Dbox suffice? A new drainfield requires testing, engineering and permits. A new tank and connecting piping may not.


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## Bobbin (Aug 22, 2014)

Thank you all so much for your input.  I'm the proud owner of a raised septic system at my home and "believe you me", we are mindful of its "care and feeding".  We have the tank pumped regularly, there is no "pig" in the sink, and we follow the "low flow" reg.s carefully. 

I'm a little freaked out by this turn of events, but I'm also enough of a realist to understand that problems like this rarely "fix themselves" and sometimes you simply have to "suck it up" and do what must be done.  You've given me good advice and have given me a target to keep me focussed.


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## Lockpicker (Sep 4, 2014)

peakbagger said:


> You really need to figure out if the problem is in the pipes going from the house or in the field. If you can open the tank you can "stick" it to determine the solids build up. Basically find a good long stick and push it down to the bottom od the tank. If there are solids near the level of the outlet, figure the field is probably shot. .



I am a little late on this one,, I am not seeing as how the level of solids in the tank can be a determining factor on the condition of the field. The solids will fall to the bottom of the tank and the liquids run out into the field. If your solids are up near the outlet it only means your tank needs pumped. If the D-box or the lines to your field are blocked you will have sewage seeping out around the lid to the tank or the vent when you use a good bit of water like a load of wash or a long shower. If you are getting back up into the house and slow drain then the problem could very well be between the tank and the house. I would try to determine best I could where the problem is then have a septic company come out and pump the tank and inspect it. Tell them what you have experienced. They might very well be able to tell which side is the problem when they get the tank empty and may be able to fix you up from there. If you do determine a new system is in order, start at your local township building, they will give you all the necessary steps and procedures you'll need to do.

Good luck,, these things are not fun to deal with.


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## Swedishchef (Sep 6, 2014)

Reading posts like this make me want have a house with city sewage lines the next time I move...


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## Highbeam (Sep 7, 2014)

Lockpicker said:


> I am a little late on this one,, I am not seeing as how the level of solids in the tank can be a determining factor on the condition of the field. The solids will fall to the bottom of the tank and the liquids run out into the field. If your solids are up near the outlet it only means your tank needs pumped. If the D-box or the lines to your field are blocked you will have sewage seeping out around the lid to the tank or the vent when you use a good bit of water like a load of wash or a long shower. If you are getting back up into the house and slow drain then the problem could very well be between the tank and the house. I would try to determine best I could where the problem is then have a septic company come out and pump the tank and inspect it. Tell them what you have experienced. They might very well be able to tell which side is the problem when they get the tank empty and may be able to fix you up from there. If you do determine a new system is in order, start at your local township building, they will give you all the necessary steps and procedures you'll need to do.
> 
> Good luck,, these things are not fun to deal with.



Thing is, if the solids level was allowed to rise high enough that the solids ran out the outlet along with the "clean" liquids then the field could be ruined. So many people dont do anything unless sewage backs up or surfaces in the yard.

A lot to be said for city sewage service.


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## Swedishchef (Sep 7, 2014)

On another note, all modern septic tanks (at least in Canada) contain filters that prevent solids from reaching the field. However, what most people don't realize, is that you're supposed to clean it every 6 months in order to prevent sewage backup in your house. I am cleaning mine next month.

Andrew


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## Lockpicker (Sep 7, 2014)

Yes septic tanks should have baffles to keep the solids in th tank. In the township i live in it is mandatory to pump the tank every two years. I could probably go 10 years or more with just my wife and I living here.


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## Dune (Sep 7, 2014)

very first thing is to pump the tank. Pumping the tank alone may solve the problem.  Whatever service you call should bring a camera, if they don't have one, keep calling. 
You could be suffering from a simple partial clog, possibly inside the house.

If the pipe is rooted, replace with 4" PVC, pitched 1/4" per foot. Pitch is critical, too much and liquids can run by leaving solids behind, too little leads to easy clogging.


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## NE WOOD BURNER (Sep 9, 2014)

I would suggest going on the NHDES web site and order the design plans for your existing system if available. then call a septic designer. maybe the designer on the original plan. If no design on file I would ask around and find out who the installer was to determine the specifics of your existing system. I would guess that your system is stone and pipe at that age. with your design plan you can locate the tank and dbox for evaluation. Good luck!


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## TMonter (Sep 10, 2014)

Dune said:


> very first thing is to pump the tank. Pumping the tank alone may solve the problem.  Whatever service you call should bring a camera, if they don't have one, keep calling.
> You could be suffering from a simple partial clog, possibly inside the house.
> 
> If the pipe is rooted, replace with 4" PVC, pitched 1/4" per foot. Pitch is critical, too much and liquids can run by leaving solids behind, too little leads to easy clogging.



Be careful there many states don't allow PVC for drain applications, you have to use Sch40 or greater ABS in some locales and it depends entirely on what you have currently in place If it's an older house it's very likely ABS and not PVC.


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## Chimney Smoke (Sep 10, 2014)

Lockpicker said:


> * In the township i live in it is mandatory to pump the tank every two years.*



That's kind of a strange township rule.  How do they enforce it?  I wonder if someone on the town council owns a septic cleaning business


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## NE WOOD BURNER (Sep 10, 2014)

I believe this system from the original post is in NH.
If there is a design for the system it will be on file @ NHDES on line. they will have the construction approval and the approval for operation. It is a fair approval system and well documented. a local subsurface disposal designer will most likely have the knowledge of the contractor that built system. If it is a good design it maybe possible to just repair the failed portion of the system.
This season has been a wet one, so its possible that the field maybe to close to the seasonal high water table and is saturated. it would be best to have a designer present when you pump the tank. The tanks do not need to be pumped if the system is operating correctly. my "guess" is that the field is saturated and not enough air is being introduced to break down the solids. IMHO


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## Highbeam (Sep 11, 2014)

NE WOOD BURNER said:


> The tanks do not need to be pumped if the system is operating correctly.


 
That is false. There are things that enter a septic that accumulate and will never decompose. Pump times vary but the tank must be pumped.


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## TMonter (Sep 11, 2014)

Highbeam said:


> That is false. There are things that enter a septic that accumulate and will never decompose. Pump times vary but the tank must be pumped.



 My septic guys base pumping frequency entirely how much sludge is in the bottom of the tank. Every time they pump based on the sludge they find they recommend a time before pumping it again. I typically do ours every 4-7 years but we also have a larger tank and don't use anti-bacterial soap and go very light on bleach usage.


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## Highbeam (Sep 11, 2014)

That is the proper way to do it. You can even measure sludge and scum levels without pumping but all of that depends on an owner that cares enough and knows enough to do things right. In the perceived abscence of smart people, government spouts off pumping intervals based on the worst case.

In my county, the tank must be pumped every three years.


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## NE WOOD BURNER (Sep 11, 2014)

I have been in my house since 1992. I pumped when I bought it, to inspect the tank. It works well. Only trouble I had was a paper plate stuck in pipe when kids where young.


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## Highbeam (Sep 12, 2014)

Ive cleared a couple of clogs. Its a spooky thing to open the lid of a septic tank when sewage is backed up into the house 5 or 6 feet above. Either the inlet is plugged ( usually a big wad of tp at the inlet baffle) or the outlet is plugged and if it's the outlet then you need to be ready for a fountain of sewage when you lift that lid.


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## Treacherous (Sep 12, 2014)

On the 40 year old inlet pipe on my tank at my cabin it started to collapse a few years back and in fixing that discovered a fir tree had crushed the inlet pipe about a foot away from the tank.    It's such a simple design one could use a ditch witch in a weekend and completely replace drain field.   All the soaps, bleaches and cleaners probably don't help the bacterial action and probably cause some to have to pump earlier than others.    I am sure many are pumping their sink waste disposer into tank as well instead of putting in compost pile or garbage.


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## TMonter (Sep 12, 2014)

Highbeam said:


> Ive cleared a couple of clogs. Its a spooky thing to open the lid of a septic tank when sewage is backed up into the house 5 or 6 feet above. Either the inlet is plugged ( usually a big wad of tp at the inlet baffle) or the outlet is plugged and if it's the outlet then you need to be ready for a fountain of sewage when you lift that lid.



When I put a riser on my tank the first time I pumped it I also put a cleanout riser at the inlet pipe so I could clear any clogs that happened there. Since my tank is buried about 4.5 feet down it was worth the effort and cost to put the risers on. I've cleared the inlet clog once and was so glad I had the cleanout riser.


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## Lockpicker (Sep 13, 2014)

Chimney Smoke said:


> That's kind of a strange township rule.  How do they enforce it?  I wonder if someone on the town council owns a septic cleaning business




We live in close proximity to a lake in a small township.  They do indeed send out a notification every two years as a reminder to pump your tank. They have a list of approved companies to pump your tank that includes just about every septic company within 50 miles. Once you have your tank pumped these companies are required to send some paper work to the township stating that the work was done. If you fail to follow the township regulation you face fines. It all came about from people that ignored maintenance of their septic systems and allowed them to leak and operate in disrepair. I don't mind, we have a lot of streams and run off that makes it's way to the lake and also we all have wells for drinking water.  Even though our houses here are few and far between a poorly operating system is not healthy for anyone.


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## TMonter (Sep 13, 2014)

Lockpicker said:


> We live in close proximity to a lake in a small township.  They do indeed send out a notification every two years as a reminder to pump your tank. They have a list of approved companies to pump your tank that includes just about every septic company within 50 miles. Once you have your tank pumped these companies are required to send some paper work to the township stating that the work was done. If you fail to follow the township regulation you face fines. It all came about from people that ignored maintenance of their septic systems and allowed them to leak and operate in disrepair. I don't mind, we have a lot of streams and run off that makes it's way to the lake and also we all have wells for drinking water.  Even though our houses here are few and far between a poorly operating system is not healthy for anyone.



Still it seems like sort of a knee-jerk reaction to the problem. They should allow the people that do the tank pumping recommend the pumping interval instead of a blanket interval for everyone. It would be pretty easy to develop guidelines based on the sludge buildup since the last pumping.


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## heat seeker (Sep 13, 2014)

You're dealing with politicians, remember.


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## drizler (Sep 15, 2014)

Gee, all the shite laden horror stories.  They went to the "licensed soil engineer" perk tests to do anything locally around here in 92.      Perk test went from a ritual with a bucket and a watch to a bill for $275 TO $700 for absolutely nothing you couldn't do yourself.   Mine   (1000 gallon 1995)  went without pumping from then until 2010.   When it does go tits up I'm gonna whip out my  back hoe grab my buddy and just knock it out myself.     That's the beauty of living back off the road in what I call  Jurassic Park.   Nobody knows what I'm doing back here unless they are in a plane and I like it that way.      The only problem is plowing the 1000' driveway.    Besides that it pays off big.  
    Too bad you have such an old system.    It's hard to justify putting any real $$ into such an old and small system.    If the time comes you might as well go big with a cement 1000 gallon.     If nothing else its a good sales attractor and tanks aren't much themselves.   Being in NH you may well not have to get on your knees and beg with your wallet out like the rest of the NE.    They can be pretty backwards over your way which as often as not is a good thing..


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## jharkin (Sep 17, 2014)

There also tables that give recommended pumping intervals based on the seize of the tank in gallons, household size, garbage disposal use, etc.   These are easy to find in a google search.

http://inspectapedia.com/septic/Septic_Tank_Pumping_Schedule.htm

Our house had a brand new 1500 gal tank installed by the previous owners and at first there was only 2 of us there.  The chart says 9 years, I had it done at 4 for the piece of mind and to get a baseline.  Stupid septic company however when I asked them what the sludge level was  all they would say is normal. No matter how many times I asked the kid wouldn't give me a measurement... probably so I call them back more often.   Now we area household of 4, chart says 4 years now but again I'll probably get it done at 3 years for piece of mind.


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## Highbeam (Sep 17, 2014)

jharkin said:


> Stupid septic company however when I asked them what the sludge level was  all they would say is normal. No matter how many times I asked the kid wouldn't give me a measurement... probably so I call them back more often.   Now we area household of 4, chart says 4 years now but again I'll probably get it done at 3 years for piece of mind.


 
So tank pumpers aren't typically the sharpest tools in the shed. The kid probably stuck the hose in there and started the pump and then got back to texting his girlfriend.


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## Bobbin (Dec 4, 2015)

I want to thank every one of you who replied to this thread.  I now have a new septic system plan for the property in question.  It does indeed include the Presby system and is for a 4 bedroom home with a 1500 gallon tank; which is way more than the home presently requires.  I opted to increase the size of the septic system to accommodate any future renovation by a future owner.  I am interested in using the home as a rental and it seemed to prudent to "overbuild".  Thanks again, you guys!


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## sportbikerider78 (Dec 4, 2015)

You guys are all giving home inspectors too much credit.  I've never seen them do a full septic inspection.  
Toilet flushes?  Good to go.  They would have to pull the cover to get a good look at the tank.  How many home inspectors are going to dig up a septic cover?


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## heat seeker (Dec 4, 2015)

Around here, the home inspectors don't do the septic system. The prospective buy hires a septic guy to do the inspection. The homeowner pays for the pumping, the buyer pays for the inspection.


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## peakbagger (Dec 4, 2015)

Good to here it worked out for you. My brother just had a Presby system installed. The field is half the size and barring someone totally abusing it, its almost impossible to plug the field.


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## lml999 (Jul 19, 2016)

peakbagger said:


> Good to here it worked out for you. My brother just had a Presby system installed. The field is half the size and barring someone totally abusing it, its almost impossible to plug the field.




You haven't met my brother in law. He is a master plugger. I can't figure it out...but no matter where he goes or what he does in there, he leaves a trail of wet plungers.


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## vinny11950 (Jul 22, 2016)

Terry Love of terrylove_com says there is a certain percent of the population (small percent) that will plug just about anything.


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