# i need to find my well



## bholler (Feb 20, 2014)

I have a 100 yr old house surface pump in the basement.  What I am wondering is does anyone here know of a way to find the well without digging up the pipe the whole way from the house to where ever the well is?


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## pen (Feb 20, 2014)

Probably has steel casing,,,, have you tried a metal detector?


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## BrotherBart (Feb 20, 2014)

Here is an interesting approach to finding it.

http://www.kountrylife.com/forum/messages/109718.html


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## billb3 (Feb 20, 2014)

might be on a plot plan too


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## razerface (Feb 20, 2014)

I thought they all stick up above the ground!  Huh,,learn something every day,,,

No concrete, no outside hand pump, nothing?


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## Seasoned Oak (Feb 21, 2014)

I found a hand dug stone lined well under my walkway.  "The giveaway" was snow didnt stick on that part of the pavement. The warmth of the water below causes the snow to melt as it hit the pavement in  a  3' circle.


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## jebatty (Feb 21, 2014)

If the water pipe from the house to the well is metal (and maybe even if it is not), take two pieces of heavy wire, bend each into an L shape, and then hold the one leg of each of the two L's close to each other and parallel to the ground, like divining rods, and more likely than not as you cross the metal pipe the wires will bend down. I have done this several times to locate buried electrical lines, and I think it also should work with buried metal pipe. I don't have any buried metal pipe that I know of on our property, so I can't test this suggestion. Maybe someone else has done this.


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## Ehouse (Feb 21, 2014)

Look on the outside of the foundation wall.  You might find a mark there indicating direction.   The box should be within 10' of the foundation.  A buried well head isn't code around here anymore, so if you're going to open it up, you might want to extend the pipe above ground.


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## Jags (Feb 21, 2014)

Like Jim was explaining.  Around here its called "witching".  It will find natural and unnatural water flows. It will also work for electric lines and field tiles.



You need to walk at a 90 from the direction of the pipe (i.e. if the pipe is N-S you need to walk E-W).  I take a handful of small flags and approach from both directions.  Pin a flag where the wires cross, move down a few feet and do it again.  It doesn't take long to see the pipe run. Keep moving a few feet down the pipe till you no longer get a reaction.  There is the end of your pipe run.

Oh - and I have meet people that this doesn't work with.  If you can't do it, get your wife or kid or neighbor to try it.  They might think you are nuts, but wait till the first person makes it work.  The look on their face is priceless.


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## ironpony (Feb 21, 2014)

pics or it did not happen^^^^^^


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## Jags (Feb 21, 2014)

I am one of the lucky ones that it works very well with.  I actually have a set of 1/4" rods specifically for this.  They will actually turn with enough force to gently slap me in the chest.  I helped my young neighbor farm kid that purchased some family land find a bunch of field tiles that way.  I also located a questionable electric run to my chicken coop using the same method.  It sounds crazy, but it works.


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## firefighterjake (Feb 21, 2014)

Always been a bit skeptical about folks and their diving rods . . . guess I would want to see the "science" behind it . . . I always have kind of suspected it might be more of the user consciously or more likely subconsciously manipulating the rods when subconsiciously or consciously they see clues as to where water or metal may be . . .


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## Jags (Feb 21, 2014)

Nope - that ain't the case.  The rods turn on their own.  I have actually placed the rods in skeptics hands with them getting the same results.  You should see their faces.  As best as I can surmise - it happens because of the disruption of the natural magnetic properties in the ground.
Try it where you suspect there might be an underground conduit.  An electrical line running to a building, or water line, septic trunk, etc.
But remember, you must walk at approx 90 degrees from the conduit.  You must "cross its path".

And honestly - I have seen people that can't make it work.  If it doesn't work for you, hand them to someone else.  I would bet that out of 3 people you stand a VERY good chance of one of you being able to do it.
Go do it Jake - people are looking at me weird.


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## Delta-T (Feb 21, 2014)

we no look at you weird....when you looking at us anyways


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## bholler (Feb 21, 2014)

I think it might still be the old hand dug well didn't find it with a metal detector maybe I will try the divining rods lol.   thanks bb I will try that


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## Warm_in_NH (Feb 22, 2014)

My house is 1929. The "old" farm house is at the far corner of my lot. The dug well I use is next to the old foundation.  My well pump in the basement pulls the water from the old well about 150' away!

Don't just assume it's gonna be close by.

IF you have a septic you can (hopefully) rule out that whole region of your yard to start with.

Good luck!


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## homebrewz (Feb 22, 2014)

bholler said:


> I think it might still be the old hand dug well didn't find it with a metal detector maybe I will try the divining rods lol.   thanks bb I will try that



If you don't need to find it right away and your yard is relatively free of rocks, you can wait until the spring and probe around in the ground with a metal rod. Hopefully that thing is capped with a flat piece of rock (as opposed to some rotting boards).


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## bholler (Feb 22, 2014)

don't need to right away no but it is full of rocks yes a metal rod will go in about 1/4' thanks it would work in some areas just not here.  I wouldn't mind digging if there weren't so damn many rocks.


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## Warm_in_NH (Feb 22, 2014)

bholler said:


> don't need to right away no but it is full of rocks yes a metal rod will go in about 1/4' thanks it would work in some areas just not here.  I wouldn't mind digging if there weren't so damn many rocks.



I live in "the granite state".  I'm reminded of this every time we did sono tubes. 

Not much worse than digging in rocks. You'd like to think there won't be any over the well, why back fill with them, but there were a bunch over my septic lid. No fun.


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## homebrewz (Feb 22, 2014)

There may be a chance whoever covered the well did it with loose soil. Then, the probe would go in for a ways in the area of the well. 
You might get lucky... beats digging in a bunch of spots. 

The location may even be noted on the deed or original survey map, which should be on file at the local tax office.


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## Backwoods Savage (Feb 22, 2014)

I've used the wire trick many times and it does work. However, witching with sticks is another thing. I can not do it but do know of others who can. One time when we were putting in a well by hand, I finally gave up and went to get someone we knew who could witch. He said I missed the vein by 10'. We moved it 10' and had water at 30' down. We simply drove a sand point and it worked very well.


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## bholler (Feb 22, 2014)

it is not noted anywhere that was the first place I looked and the pump and foot valve were put in in 83  so the dirt covering it is no longer loose I am sure.   I cant believe it is still working and I would like to find the well before the foot valve goes out.  I guess I will try the wire trick


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## ewdudley (Feb 23, 2014)

There could be subtle differences in vegetation or temperature, especially over the well itself.  Maybe get up on the roof when the snow cover is melting or when the grass is greening and see if you can see something.


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## FanMan (Feb 23, 2014)

The wire thing does work... I was first shown it by a retired US Navy submarine captain, looking for buried electric lines near a neighbor's cabin.  I tried it and it worked for me, too.


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## CenterTree (Feb 28, 2014)

FanMan said:


> The wire thing does work... I was first shown it by a retired US Navy submarine captain, looking for buried electric lines near a neighbor's cabin.  I tried it and it worked for me, too.


Here's an odd spin on the "Witching" method.

My step Father works for a small town Water Company, he uses the 2 stick method to find water lines all the time. It really works for him.  People call him all the time to find _"lost" _water lines.

The difference with the way he does it is that he always uses two twigs from a PEACH tree.

He claims it does not NEED to be metal wire as most use.   So I think the "theory" about a magnetic disruption is not the case.   I mean, he uses tree branches.   Don't know.  It never worked for me.


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## Jags (Feb 28, 2014)

CenterTree said:


> He claims it does not NEED to be metal wire as most use. So I think the "theory" about a magnetic disruption is not the case. I mean, he uses tree branches. Don't know.  It never worked for me.



I think there are two different forces at work here.  My uncle could witch for water with willow branches (this task has always alluded me - I can't do it).  It had to be a fresh cut branch.  He said he could feel it bend towards the ground.

The wire or rods actually twist inline to the underground conduit, not bend towards it.  I think we are comparing a living thing searching for water vs magnetic disruption. 

I would be willing to bet that a tree branch ain't gonna find an underground electrical line.


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## CenterTree (Feb 28, 2014)

Jags said:


> I think there are two different forces at work here.  My uncle could witch for water with willow branches (this task has always alluded me - I can't do it).  It had to be a fresh cut branch.  He said he could feel it bend towards the ground.
> 
> The wire or rods actually twist inline to the underground conduit, not bend towards it.  I think we are comparing a living thing searching for water vs magnetic disruption.
> 
> I would be willing to bet that a tree branch ain't gonna find an underground electrical line.




I agree, the two methods must certainly be acting in different "scientific" manners.  
Maybe (just surmising) the fresh twigs having  moisture in them  has something to do with it?

Still, it is REALLY neat to see it in action.

What baffles me is that I've seen it used to find NON-running water lines. Empty drain lines   Strange.  Years ago, I had my step Dad come over to find an abandon septic line/tank in our yard.  .  He said _"right here"_.  We dug and BINGO.   Crazy!

And I can not imagine finding electric lines with sticks either.  THAT would be a cool trick.


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## Fifelaker (Feb 28, 2014)

When I use the wires they always go out. Like has been said some people can do it and some can't. They also work on over head wires so if the line you are looking for has wires above you can get false readings.


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## semipro (Feb 28, 2014)

I'm unaware of any empirical study of witching, divining, dowsing, etc. showing any improved ability to locate subsurface features that's any better than simply tossing a rock over your shoulder.
If anyone knows of such a study I'd really like to know about it because I'd like to think it works somehow.


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## Fifelaker (Feb 28, 2014)

If you were closer I could show you it works. Do not ask me how but I have seen it work every time I have done it.


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## Frozen Canuck (Feb 28, 2014)

I can't tell you how or why it works Semi, I only know that it does. 

Worked very well for my Father, his grip was strong enough that the bark would strip from a willow while he held onto it crossing a vein of water. No where near as much effect for me. My Daughter has the same strong effect as her Grandfather, freaks her right out however & she usually drops the stick. 

I keep meaning to tease her & ask if it's a voodoo trick that she picked up while on holidays in the Dominican from the Haitian's that cross the border. However when we drill were the dowser says, water 100% of the time. Me I lean toward the voodoo explanation.


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## 1kzwoman (Mar 2, 2014)

I've seen a bastard file balanced on the thumb used. Close fist around tip of thumb balance file of raised thumb bone.File will dip and fall.


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## Jags (Mar 3, 2014)

Never heard of that one.


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## coaly (Mar 3, 2014)

I've bought a few homes to turn into rentals and had to find septic and below grade wells. I run a fish snake for installing electric inside the pipe. It will stop at the 90* elbow at the well, and put a piece of tape on it. Now at least you know how far from the end of pipe inside to well it is. Mark a radius line outside from where you know it exits the building. Should be somewhere close to that arched line.
  Now try divining rods. I believe the magnetic poles of the earth cause the water in your body to magnetically effect steel rods. Think about it. We conduct electricity, and magnetic lines of force are always cutting through your body at different angles from the magnetic poles. Electric is generated by magnetic lines of force going through a rotating coil in a generator from permanent magnets or an alternator with electromagnets. That moves the electrons in the copper wire coils, just like I believe it could move the electrons in our body. Very weak lines of force, but the rods seem to move like you are the magnet. Don't know if it's a disruption, or something making it stronger, but it works. A friend of mine with a septic pumping business has a set he uses to find septic lids all the time.
   Around here the top may be down 4 feet deep, so driving rods in the ground are no where near deep enough. How would you know if it were a rock, or you were driving it through the cap ? Many are aluminum ! Puncture the suction line with a pin hole amount of damage in a two line shallow system, and you're fixing another problem. I certainly wouldn't poke around the ground in the vicinity of water lines. I also wouldn't say there is any reason for a well to be a certain footage from the home. Many are just off the road where the well drilling truck could back in and be far from the home. My own and one rental is about 50 feet from the home.
  When I find it, I drill the casing side and install a pitless adapter, install submersible pump, and extend the casing above ground with a Fernco coupler and 6 inch PVC to be able to put a T pipe into the adapter to pull the pump.


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## Utilitrack (Mar 3, 2014)

coaly said:


> I've bought a few homes to turn into rentals and had to find septic and below grade wells. I run a fish snake for installing electric inside the pipe. It will stop at the 90* elbow at the well, and put a piece of tape on it. Now at least you know how far from the end of pipe inside to well it is. Mark a radius line outside from where you know it exits the building. Should be somewhere close to that arched line.
> Now try divining rods. I believe the magnetic poles of the earth cause the water in your body to magnetically effect steel rods. Think about it. We conduct electricity, and magnetic lines of force are always cutting through your body at different angles from the magnetic poles. Electric is generated by magnetic lines of force going through a rotating coil in a generator from permanent magnets or an alternator with electromagnets. That moves the electrons in the copper wire coils, just like I believe it could move the electrons in our body. Very weak lines of force, but the rods seem to move like you are the magnet. Don't know if it's a disruption, or something making it stronger, but it works. A friend of mine with a septic pumping business has a set he uses to find septic lids all the time.
> Around here the top may be down 4 feet deep, so driving rods in the ground are no where near deep enough. How would you know if it were a rock, or you were driving it through the cap ? Many are aluminum ! Puncture the suction line with a pin hole amount of damage in a two line shallow system, and you're fixing another problem. I certainly wouldn't poke around the ground in the vicinity of water lines. I also wouldn't say there is any reason for a well to be a certain footage from the home. Many are just off the road where the well drilling truck could back in and be far from the home. My own and one rental is about 50 feet from the home.
> When I find it, I drill the casing side and install a pitless adapter, install submersible pump, and extend the casing above ground with a Fernco coupler and 6 inch PVC to be able to put a T pipe into the adapter to pull the pump.


 
I would contact my local One Call Center-811- to get the name of private locating companies in your area that could either locate the conductors using electro-magnetic (EM) equipment or by using Ground Penetrating Radar (GPR). It will cost more than divining rods (to which I have no faith in) but will not be a waste of time.


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## Jags (Mar 3, 2014)

Utilitrack said:


> It will cost more than divining rods (to which I have no faith in) but will not be a waste of time.



Yeah - why would you take the chance of wasting two perfectly good wire hangers and 5 minutes of your time.


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## coaly (Mar 3, 2014)

Utilitrack said:


> I would contact my local One Call Center-811- to get the name of private locating companies in your area that could either locate the conductors using electro-magnetic (EM) equipment or by using Ground Penetrating Radar (GPR). It will cost more than divining rods (to which I have no faith in) but will not be a waste of time.



A two pipe system has plastic pipes from shallow pump to well. What conductors?


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## Utilitrack (Mar 3, 2014)

Insert fishtape or electrical snake, as I said I have had no luck with dowsing, your results may vary


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## coaly (Mar 3, 2014)

Not sure if it will pick it up through the deep well pipe wall. I have a campground close by that has the equipment, but theirs requires a metallic tracer above plastic.
 I have my own JD 400 backhoe, and the only time I've ever hit anything underground was when a neighbor needed a ditch from pole to house dug for phone and cable. He used the PA 1 Call and had spray painted electric lines painted on ground before I got there. So I dug the other side to curl the new utilities from the other side of pole staying far from the marked lines. The electric line came down the pole and curled around that side in a large loop that wasn't marked. No sand or tracer tape above. Didn't damage it, but it was underground service off the transformer that wasn't supposed to be there. So much for call before you dig.


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## bholler (Mar 4, 2014)

thanks everyone I guess I will try the divining rods.  If that doesn't work I will do the fish tape thing and go from there.  and no there are no conductors going into the well just 2 plastic pipes.  Gpr might work not sure how much it would cost but I will check it out but I would bet I will be digging allot of holes before paying for that.


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## coaly (Mar 4, 2014)

One thing I forgot. IF it's not too deep, you can try a fish tape inside the pipe, and have someone knock it against the elbow at the cap. With a stethoscope or board with the end on ground, put your ear to it to see if you can hear the tapping and judge where it's loudest. It may work if the ground is dense enough to carry sound. With the radius measuring technique you know where the end of the fish tape is along that arch to listen.


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## HeatsTwice (Mar 8, 2014)

I have a large property and run in to this type of thing now and again. 

My solution is to go to the rental equipment place around the corner and rent an RF transmitter pipe locator.  They are very simple to use and can locate a pipe, or wire buried 3-4 feet underground 100's of feet from where I see it enter. There are many makes and models and rent for about $30/day.  Here is just one page I found about how it works. But there are 1000's of such gizmos on the market.

http://www.fujitecom.com/howto/PL960.html

Btw, the USGS has done extensive studies on the phenomenon of water witches over the past 100 years and found that there is no evidence that such ability actually exists. The fact that it sometimes works is that there is a lot of water in the area of the search in the first place.


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## JoeyD (Mar 11, 2014)

The first time I saw a guy use the wire trick I was laughing under my breath. We were looking for a sewer line in a street. Sure enough it was right where the wire said it should be so I came home and tried it on my septic system. I am a believer now. Some time later I found my mother-in-laws septic for her. I believe it works best if the water is running thru the pipe and I never tried it on electrical.

Also I think sticking the wire in straws helps.


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## Warm_in_NH (Mar 11, 2014)

First time I saw someone dousing was shortly after I moved up here to NH. I thought to myself, "wow, theses people are idiots!" Then the excavator took a big scoop and revealed the underground spring that would feed the new dug well. 
Three other attempts to find water with out dousing were unsuccessful.  The douser pointed to a spot that was on higher ground, didn't make sense, but proof was in the water filled hole.

Now, through the years I've learned that not everyone who claims to be able to do this can and those that can don't have an exact science. But usually for the price and time it's worth a shot


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## peakbagger (Mar 11, 2014)

When I first built my house I was hoping for a dug well until I could afford a deep well. I laid out the lot on my computer and located the well as far away from the street the driveway, the house and the septic system and marked it with a stake. 

 I had the son of the local backhoe owner doing the digging for the house and drainage lines and asked him to dig the well. I had shown him the spot with the stake earlier in the week but it got pulled. He decided to call in his father to dowse for the well. He cut a branch and walked the property and his stick located the same spot I did. His so who was elsewhere told him it was the same spot I picked out. The father walked up to me and looked at me strange and said "you must have the gift" and walked away. 

The backhoe located a small spring and it never ran dry until I swapped it with a drilled well as I got a new neighbor upslope who installed a septic system and has a love of green lawn that he keeps green with loads of fertilizer and pesticides.

 I used to located pipes for a water utility with a RF box for a couple of years so it must have rubbed off.


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## Michael Golden (Mar 11, 2014)

Ask around and see if anyone can get some pipe locators. You can hook up direct and follow it right through your yard with the locator.


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## bholler (Mar 11, 2014)

do any of the pipe locators work with plastic pipes?


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## HeatsTwice (Mar 11, 2014)

No. But if you insert a copper wire or a wire "pull" into the pipe and connect the RF transmitter it will. The only problem is if you hit a 90 degree turn, you've got to dig that up, cut the pipe and re-insert the wire.


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## Jags (Mar 11, 2014)

Or ruin a couple of wire hangers and wander about your yard....quality fun for the whole family.


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## HeatsTwice (Mar 12, 2014)

HAAaaaa! Sure go for it.


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