# Framing basement walls without covering top plates and rim joists



## dave11 (Oct 28, 2009)

House was built in 1951, concrete block walls in the walkout basement. Walls are bare, I want to frame them and insulate, but I want to leave access to the top plates and rim joists. The reason is that in the past two years, I've had carpenter ants twice in the rim joists, in wood that was not ever wet, just areas of penetration for electrical and plumbing. I probably wouldn't have found the carpenter ants for a long time had the rim joists been covered by conventional framing.

Is there way to frame that accomplishes this? The typical framing method, namely nailing the top member of the new wall directly to the bottom of the floor joists, can't be done.

What about lowering the top member to the height of the block wall, then adding a spacer block of 1.5 inches thickness, to span the distance between the top member and the floor joist? This still leaves access to both the top plate on top of the block wall, and to the rim joist.

Or is there a special type of bracket that would accomplish this?

Any opinions appreciated.


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## fbelec (Oct 29, 2009)

if you do conventional wall and have a drop ceiling you should have no problem with access.
if you plan on a plaster or sheetrock ceiling, you can't get at it no matter what you do.


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## dave11 (Oct 29, 2009)

If the top of the new wall is nailed to the floor joists, the top plate on the block wall becomes totally inaccessible, along with the lower part of the rim joist. It would be very hard to see them, even if with a  bright light and mirror. That's what I want to avoid. I want the top of the new wall to end at the upper edge of the block wall, just at the lower edge of the top plate.


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## jebatty (Oct 29, 2009)

Carpenter ants: pay close attention periodically to your outside foundation walls, as you usually can see active ants and where they are entering the house. There are some very good insecticides, pricey, for carpenter ants, both bate jell to place at entrance locations and granules to spread around the foundation, that have worked very well for me. But still need to pay attention, as they may come back. When you find entrance holes, and have killed the ants with the insecticide, do what you can to caulk/plug the entry.


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## SolarAndWood (Oct 29, 2009)

Is the goal to finish or just insulate the basement?  I have an old Remington stud driver for shooting into masonry walls that works well.  You can probably find one at one of the tool rental places.  

I wouldn't put anything porous in the basement unless you are 110% sure that you will never have moisture in there.  I just finished gutting a finished basement that was great for 15 years until the drain system failed.  Not a whole lot of fun and not real healthy.  

We went through the same thing with our current house my wife and I bought 5 years ago.  The sellers spent $5K for one of those "lifetime guarantee basement waterproofing systems" because they couldn't sell the house.  Complete joke, they still couldn't sell the house for anywhere near the price they wanted.  I took out 5 layers of nasty wall to wall carpet and shoveled what was left of studs that had completely rotted 3 ft up the walls.


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## fbelec (Oct 29, 2009)

dave11 said:
			
		

> If the top of the new wall is nailed to the floor joists, the top plate on the block wall becomes totally inaccessible, along with the lower part of the rim joist. It would be very hard to see them, even if with a  bright light and mirror. That's what I want to avoid. I want the top of the new wall to end at the upper edge of the block wall, just at the lower edge of the top plate.



i must not be understanding you at all. can you take a picture of the area you are talking about? i think you are talking about the side walls vs. the front and back walls that would be blocked. if so a drop ceiling and the side walls you should pull back away from the foundation about six inches and that will leave you enough room to see and put you hand up there to spray. if your usind a drop ceiling then you don't need a top plate just attach the wall studs to the nearest joist away from the foundation wall.


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## dave11 (Oct 29, 2009)

SolarAndWood said:
			
		

> Is the goal to finish or just insulate the basement?  I have an old Remington stud driver for shooting into masonry walls that works well.  You can probably find one at one of the tool rental places.
> 
> I wouldn't put anything porous in the basement unless you are 110% sure that you will never have moisture in there.  I just finished gutting a finished basement that was great for 15 years until the drain system failed.  Not a whole lot of fun and not real healthy.
> 
> We went through the same thing with our current house my wife and I bought 5 years ago.  The sellers spent $5K for one of those "lifetime guarantee basement waterproofing systems" because they couldn't sell the house.  Complete joke, they still couldn't sell the house for anywhere near the price they wanted.  I took out 5 layers of nasty wall to wall carpet and shoveled what was left of studs that had completely rotted 3 ft up the walls.



Water and moisture have never been a problem here. The house sits on a slope, and this part of the basement is almost fully above ground anyway.

The issue though is how to anchor the tops of the studs. I can either terminate them at a top plate, then add 1.5 by 1.5 inch spacers for nailing, between that top plate and the bottoms of the floor joists, or I could skip  the top plate, and run the studs up higher, alongside the floor joists, and nail them there. Then I could toe-nail horizontal blocks between the studs, to act as an edge, and a nailing surface for drywall.


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## dave11 (Oct 29, 2009)

fbelec said:
			
		

> dave11 said:
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> 
> ...


I plan to use 2x4's and 3.5 inch thick rigid foam insulation. I believe the rec now is to skip the 6-inch air space behind this sort of framing. And I don't plan to place a drop ceiling.


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## billb3 (Oct 29, 2009)

Build the wall  your 6 or 8 inches short in 8 foot sections and for every section tag a full height 2x4 to the bottom of the joists. It's not a load bearing wall, so you only need horizontal  rigidity. 
You don't need nailing for sheetrock if you cover the  accesible strip with an 8 or 10 inch board or formica covered plywood - screwed to the low to plate and give yourself a short nailer to stick a screw in at the top every 2 or 3 feet.


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## NEDLAX (Oct 31, 2009)

Dow board with zmate or zferring it would be perfect. the dow board is 2' o.c. The zferring is a metal track that you shoot into the wall it holds the dow board in place and also gives you a nailer for the sheet rock. use a fastrack gun you can rent them. stand the dow board up slap the metal against shoot the flange. the track goes from 1 inch to 3'' depending on needs. look for a dryall or metal framing supplier or a dow insulation supplier in your area not a box store.


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## iceman (Oct 31, 2009)

buy some boric acid mix with water and treat all of your joista and framing ...  it should explain it on the can ....  then dont worry about the ants....the wood soaks in the little bit of moisture with the boric acid which will kill/deter them...  then treat outside every year and seal up any entry ways


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