# Can Hose Clamps Be Used For PEX



## velvetfoot

I just have a few connections to make and don't feel like buying an expensive tool that I might only use a couple times.  Is it okay to use hose clamps instead of the crimp connectors?


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## Redbarn

velvetfoot said:


> I just have a few connections to make and don't feel like buying an expensive tool that I might only use a couple times.  Is it okay to use hose clamps instead of the crimp connectors?



Have you considered renting a crimp tool from a tool rental place for a few hours ?
Costs little and would ensure good connections.
Pex has a smooth exterior and has little for a hose clamp to grip on.
I've tried hose clamps on Pex in temporary situations but never found it satisfactory.


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## gzecc

As long as your selling the house, it shouldn't be a problem. I looked at a job once and there were little wet spots all around the house, assuming from all the pex connections.  In the basement I did witness some pex connections dripping.


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## Clarkbug

velvetfoot said:


> I just have a few connections to make and don't feel like buying an expensive tool that I might only use a couple times.  Is it okay to use hose clamps instead of the crimp connectors?



For just a few connections I would use sharkbites.  Or a cheapie tool off of eBay.


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## lazeedan

I agree. Sharkbites work well.


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## velvetfoot

Thanks guys.


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## valley ranch

Greeting velvet, I plumbed for years, a couple years go we bought two places in which the old pre-pex , that gray junk, was installed. Doing repairs I used Pex and decided on the Shark bite type of fittings. Even with the gas line. it was scary, now I kinda like it. 

With the Shark bite fittings you don't need the crimping tool. Does that help?

I think with the insert barbed fittings, hose clamps would be fine, not sure I'd use it inside a wall, maybe if I left it open for a few days to be sure.

Any place where it's exposed and you can get at it if it leaks it would be OK. Best of luck.

Richard


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## velvetfoot

Thanks.  The Shark it is.


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## TradEddie

Bump for the sharkbites, but don't buy the cheaper brands....

TE


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## Highbeam

Also, the "barbed" fittings that insert into the pex and are meant to be used with a proper crimp ring aren't really barbs. If you look at them they are more like ridges and not a barb at all. They work great when you use them as designed.

Note the cost of the crimp tool is less than 60$ and the fittings you use with it aren't free, still a buck or so each. Then compare to the cost of sharkbites and see that at some point you will break even on the tool investment. I don't think pex will go away.

It is great for homeowners to have what it takes (skills, tools, and parts) to splice in a chunk of pipe to repair a break, or at least cap that line.


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## velvetfoot

Thanks.  I'm thinking that the doo-dads for hooking up the $365 Nyletherm could double the price.


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## ironpony

yes, but the cost of fixing 1 leak will cover the price of the tool.


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## Retired Guy

valley ranch said:


> Greeting velvet, I plumbed for years, a couple years go we bought two places in which the old pre-pex , that gray junk, was installed. Doing repairs I used Pex and decided on the Shark bite type of fittings. Even with the gas line. it was scary, now I kinda like it.
> 
> With the Shark bite fittings you don't need the crimping tool. Does that help?
> 
> I think with the insert barbed fittings, hose clamps would be fine, not sure I'd use it inside a wall, maybe if I left it open for a few days to be sure.
> 
> Any place where it's exposed and you can get at it if it leaks it would be OK. Best of luck.
> 
> Richard


Shark Bites on a gas line? I've used them with great results on hot and cold water lines but never on gas.


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## bholler

Yeah they are not for use on gas and no hose clamps will not work you don"t get even compression all the way around with hose clamps so it will leak.


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## valley ranch

Highbeam, I was talking about copper fitting, they are barbs.

Have you ever installed a Shark bite properly that leaked? For doing small jobs the cost of SB fittings are worth it, for the average guy.


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## valley ranch

retired guy, Yep, I purchased it from a propane company, I think the name was Bi State in Nevada. It was one piece from the stub out, 3/4" pipe at the house to the tank where another stub out also 3/4" pipe, when the tank was reached the connection was a Shark Bite like fitting, I was concerned but my test cap show there was no loss of pressure. The tube between as far as I could see was Poly. That was two years ago.

http://www.heatinghelp.com/forum-thread/146764/Pex-for-natural-gas

This link takes you to a forum, the third post down is describing the line I mentioned.

Richard


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## Highbeam

valley ranch said:


> Highbeam, I was talking about copper fitting, they are barbs.
> 
> Have you ever installed a Shark bite properly that leaked? For doing small jobs the cost of SB fittings are worth it, for the average guy.


 
So was I, they are not barbs. Look again. These are the brass pex fittings and not a hose fitting. Different IDs.

http://www.supplyhouse.com/Rifeng-H005075LF-1-2-PEX-x-3-4-PEX-Brass-Elbow-Lead-Free

I love sharkbites, and have never had one leak. They have their place but I will avoid them now that I have the tool IF there is a crimped option.


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## bholler

valley ranch said:


> retired guy, Yep, I purchased it from a propane company, I think the name was Bi State in Nevada. It was one piece from the stub out, 3/4" pipe at the house to the tank where another stub out also 3/4" pipe, when the tank was reached the connection was a Shark Bite like fitting, I was concerned but my test cap show there was no loss of pressure. The tube between as far as I could see was Poly. That was two years ago.



I am sure they can make push on fittings that would work for gas sharkbites might even work but they are not approved for that application.  And in pa all interior gas lines need to be metallic in order to give more time in case of a fire the only place i have seen plastic used for gas is on exterior grilles.  But i have no idea if that code is national or not.  And i agree with highbeam they are ridges not barbs.


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## semipro

I would definitely not use standard SS worm drive hose clamps on PEX. 
Sharkbite are good, crimped are better.


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## OwlPic

Advantages and disadvantages:
1) *Sharkbites* use "o" rings, they get brittle and fail after30 years, that's probably why their warranty is 30 years.
2) *Crimps* shrink the ring's diameter by gathering a bump on each side of the crimp. This crimped area by definition is raised and therefore there is no direct pressure in the crimped area. You can see it on a failed crimp. There are little or no embossing in the PEX's inside diameter at the crimps. If the water has a stain, you can see there the water leaked by. ALSO metal under stress stretches over time. Inaddition, Copper crimps are know to corrode.
3) *Crimp clamps, *if they don't have a band under the crimp, can leak there too.
3) *Hose (worm-screw) clamps*, have been used in industry for two hundred+ years. You may have noticed that a year later you can tighten them some more. They are not used by manufactures much because they aren't as easy to quickly and automatically apply. 

Tape and/or pipe-compound can be used too. The trade off is yes they fill gaps but they can make the fittings more slippery so the hose can pop off. If you can squeeze the tube enough to emboss the tube around the barbs or rings then slipping is not an issue.


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## velvetfoot

Old thread, lol.  I wound up using copper crimps and a not-too-expensive crimping tool from HD.  Very easy to use.  
I wonder, does current plumbing practice allow crimped joints inside walls?


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## Highbeam

velvetfoot said:


> Old thread, lol.  I wound up using copper crimps and a not-too-expensive crimping tool from HD.  Very easy to use.
> I wonder, does current plumbing practice allow crimped joints inside walls?



Yes on crimped joints inside walls. No choice in lots of applications since the bending radius of most pex is 6" minimum.

Owlpic has outdated info. I suspect he is one of those diehard copper pipe fans from back when they used to use copper.


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## OwlPic

Highbeam said:


> Owlpic has outdated info. I suspect he is one of those diehard copper pipe fans from back when they used to use copper.



*NO, Owlpic has a NEW, two year old house*, with 4 crimp failures inside walls and ceiling, both in water and heating system.
We had several plumbers and the manufacture review the failures and everything is in specification. Where the crimps are made there is no crimp-band contact with the PEX, so there is a gap where water can seep through and in one case the PEX hose popped off. See attached Picture.

To understand what is being said, imagine your entire house filled with water, and *everything *having to be replaced. This is a serious discussion.
This is a serious problem.
*GOOGLE:* pex leak

and See above:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/can-hose-clamps-be-used-for-pex.127753/#post-1719941


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## velvetfoot

oooooo...interesting.  Inside the walls and ceilings.  Wow, what a mess.


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## Highbeam

OwlPic said:


> View attachment 159527
> 
> 
> *NO, Owlpic has a NEW, two year old house*, with 4 crimp failures inside walls and ceiling, both in water and heating system.
> We had several plumbers and the manufacture review the failures and everything is in specification. Where the crimps are made there is no crimp-band contact with the PEX, so there is a gap where water can seep through and in one case the PEX hose popped off.
> 
> To understand what is being said, imagine your entire house filled with water, and *everything *having to be replaced. This is a serious discussion.
> This is a serious problem.
> *GOOGLE:* pex leak
> 
> and See above:
> https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/can-hose-clamps-be-used-for-pex.127753/#post-1719941



Sounds like your plumber wasn't using the go nogo gauge to check that his crimp tool was adjusted to give proper crimps. You know these are adjustable, wear out, and need to be adjusted right? That's why there is a test gauge included when you buy the tool. 

Your plumber's crappy workmanship is no reason to condemn a technology that is the new standard.


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## semipro

RE the leaking crimp connections: perhaps the installers crimpers were not properly adjusted. (as I type I see that Highbeam just posted the same thought)

RE: "ridges versus barbs" - a terminology issue?  My understanding is that ridges are flat and barbs are angled so that hose pushes on much easier than it comes off.


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## shoot-straight

Highbeam said:


> Your plumber's crappy workmanship is no reason to condemn a technology that is the new standard.



the pex issues are real. unfortunately a multitude of things can go wrong. i has 3/4 brass fittings in many lines when my home was built. we had a failure of the brass fitting when we were on vacation- 35k later, the house isnt the same and im paranoid. all fittings have been changed to copper, but im still paranoid. if you google pex failures, you can see some of the other issues.


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## Highbeam

shoot-straight said:


> the pex issues are real. unfortunately a multitude of things can go wrong. i has 3/4 brass fittings in many lines when my home was built. we had a failure of the brass fitting when we were on vacation- 35k later, the house isnt the same and im paranoid. all fittings have been changed to copper, but im still paranoid. if you google pex failures, you can see some of the other issues.



A brass fitting failed so you changed them all to copper? Wow. Brass is more durable, I would call that swap a downgrade. Of course the reason for the brass fitting failure could have had nothing to do with the material used for the fitting. Could be workmanship again.


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## velvetfoot

Well, I assume the system passed some kind of air leak down test and that it didn't leak for some amount of years.  I wouldn't expect that type of delayed leak like that with sweated copper pipe unless there was some kind of corrosive water issue.

PS:  We shut off the water (electrically) every time we leave the house and also have a WaterCop system, not that the insurance company cares.


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## maple1

Water chemistry can corrode copper - and water friction can do a number on it too.

Back when I had a tankless coil, I had to replace a couple of elbows on it. Shouldn't have happened with their age. But they seemed to be worn away on the inside, on the outside of the L.

Had to do another quick fix yesterday, a 1/2" copper T started spraying water in my parents basement. I did that one with a Sharkbite (those things make life a lot easier when it comes to quick fixes). Any future repairs here will be done with swapping in of PEX, and use of Sharkbites where desired.

I am pretty sure I would do a new house with PEX - doing so should enable you to get all joints out of wall spaces.


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## Highbeam

maple1 said:


> I am pretty sure I would do a new house with PEX - doing so should enable you to get all joints out of wall spaces.



The trick is when plumbing stubs out of a 2x4 wall. You don't have enough room for the full bend radius required so you can either crimp on a copper stub or a 90 degree bend. I would rather not bury a sharkbite in the wall but bury crimped brass fittings as needed.


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## heat seeker

We have copper plumbing - and the acidic water has eaten holes in various places. We do neutralize the water now. If we're going to be gone more than a day, we shut the water off - just a flip of a ball valve give me peace of mind.


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## shoot-straight

Highbeam said:


> A brass fitting failed so you changed them all to copper? Wow. Brass is more durable, I would call that swap a downgrade. Of course the reason for the brass fitting failure could have had nothing to do with the material used for the fitting. Could be workmanship again.



it had everything to do with the material in the fitting thats why it failed. it was not cast properly. several of the fittings from that supplier failed. bad batch.  i had 2 others that broke when they removed them to replace.


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## Highbeam

shoot-straight said:


> it had everything to do with the material in the fitting thats why it failed. it was not cast properly. several of the fittings from that supplier failed. bad batch.  i had 2 others that broke when they removed them to replace.



No, that's not the material's fault. It is the manufacturer that poorly cast the material who failed you.


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## velvetfoot

What makes you say it's not the material's fault?  Have you done an analysis on it?  It didn't fail immediately, it failed over time.


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## OwlPic

Highbeam said:


> ...Sounds like your plumber wasn't using the go nogo gauge to ...



Think you missed the part "several plumbers and the manufacture reviewed the failures and everything is in specification" 
We have a complete analysis, everything was measured with electronic instruments.

It is not disputable that the nature of a crimp is to draw the band material tight by gathering material away from the hose, forming a bubble under the crimp, where the band does not contact the hose. The noncontact area under the crimp provides less normal pressure than the bands. The water stain leak markings also show this very clearly.


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## OwlPic

semipro said:


> RE the leaking crimp connections: perhaps the installers crimpers were not properly adjusted. (as I type I see that Highbeam just posted the same thought)
> 
> RE: "ridges versus barbs" - a terminology issue?  My understanding is that ridges are flat and barbs are angled so that hose pushes on much easier than it comes off.



Yes both types are called *Barbs*, as shown below and have been around long before Pex.
SEE: http://www.parker.com/literature/Brass Products/3501E-I.pdf


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