# Still going to burn like oil is $4+/gallon. But wow $1.61 heating oil



## Brian26 (Nov 8, 2015)

Stove is lit right now despite cheap oil. Debating if it makes sense to hedge my 2 cords of well seasoned red oak for when oil prices go back up. 

Heating oil prices are so low. I live right near the main entry port (New Haven, CT) and the current prices are crazy low. At these prices turning up the t-stat for the whole house to get nice and warm is cheap . I'm still going to burn but  turning up the t-stat for the oil burner is hard to resist with current prices. 

These are wholesale prices coming in.


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## Sconnie Burner (Nov 8, 2015)

We are on NG here. Its at $.69 so With taxes and fees and purchased gas adjustments, etc its about $1 a therm. Only used 17 therms for the month of Oct with hot water and the furnace running a bit in the mornings. Its tough to decide what to do..... If I have time to play with the stove I will but if not I have no problem letting the furnace take over with weather like we are having.


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## saskwoodburner (Nov 8, 2015)

Heating oil was .77/liter a week or so back (1 liter x 4.5=$3.46/gallon before tax), which is cheap up here, but I burn wood every chance I can. We have above normal temps this year, so it's hard to keep the stove lit. One in the morning, and start back up from cold in the evening. Even then I bounce off 80 F indoor temp.


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## mass_burner (Nov 8, 2015)

Brian26 said:


> Stove is lit right now despite cheap oil. Debating if it makes sense to hedge my 2 cords of well seasoned red oak for when oil prices go back up.
> 
> Heating oil prices are so low. I live right near the main entry port (New Haven, CT) and the current prices are crazy low. At these prices turning up the t-stat for the whole house to get nice and warm is cheap . I'm still going to burn but  turning up the t-stat for the oil burner is hard to resist with current prices.
> 
> ...


Now this makes no sense to me, especially since a lot of folks here began burning in response to high oil prices. I read someone on here say they could put a roaring fire loop from YouTube on the TV for ambiance.


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## Swedishchef (Nov 8, 2015)

I burn because I enjoy it but not really for savings as I don't have my own woodlot and a cord of hardwood is $250+

That being said, if I had an oil burning appliance and oil was that cheap, I'd likely still burn SOME wood but not nearly as much.

Andrew


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## begreen (Nov 8, 2015)

We're in a very strong el Nino weather pattern this year. Forecast for the entire northern part of the US is milder than normal temps. If the long range forecasts hold true we may all have more wood left over at the end of the season.


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## Poindexter (Nov 8, 2015)

I just got an oil fill, lowest price I have seen in a few years.

What I don't see is the price of cord wood coming down proportionately, at least locally.  

I fell some trees, buy some logs, buy some rounds, buy some splits, scrounge a few cords a year.  I have a pretty good idea what is involved.  As low as oil is right now it isn't worth it to me to work part time at selling green wood.

As a homeowner I see one 20MBTU seasoned cord (assuming it's an honest cord), as replacing 144 gallons of #2 oil, if I am willing to work for free moving the wood around.  If #2 oil is $1.50, a 20MBTU cord is worth $216 me, maximum.  Oil at $2.50/ gallon, $360 per cord, max.  At 3.50/ gallon a 20M BTU cord replaces $504 worth of #2 oil.

A year ago, 10-30-2014 I was paying $3.70/ gallon for #2 and that was the lowest price I had seen in years, green wood was $250/ cord delivered as splits.  No brainer, I paid $165/ cord for green logs.

On the other hand, green cords delivered as rounds are currently $250/ cord delivered to my house, but I got a fill this week at $2.35/ gallon, so that green cord is only going to be worth $338 after I split, season and carry to the stove.

I am switching to buying spruce only, lower BTU, less desirable, less expensive.  The trick is local woodcutters have to fell some spruce to keep producing the birch people want to buy.  I am going to put up every stick of spruce I can season since my stove runs fine on it.

As an oil producing state, when I look at oil prices I see the Saudis sticking it to Iran.  Iran is/was only allowed to sell X many gallons of oil annually under the old sanctions.  By producing lots of oil and keeping the price down, the Saudis were seeing to it that Iran got as little money as possible for the oil they could sell.  The Saudis are going to be running low on cash in about 5 years at current spending levels.  If Alaska returns to 2007 spending levels we'll still have cash in the bank when the Saudis go broke.  If we stay at 2008 spending we'll be broke before the Saudis.

I don't see the Saudis blowing three generations of excess oil income in five years.  They like having money in the bank, and they like having lots of money in the bank.  All of us can look back over our own lifetimes at the price we pay at the pump for automotive gasoline and know the price of oil is going to go back up, probably higher than it has ever been before, again.  Probably sooner rather than later.

If you have room on your property, you could season as usual, burn minimal wood, burn cheap oil and build up a stock of seasoned wood for when oil goes back up...


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## kennyp2339 (Nov 8, 2015)

Poindexter - I agree, good perspective, I myself can not ever see no fire in my stove during a snowstorm.


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## Swedishchef (Nov 8, 2015)

A cord of wood sitting in my back yard is like having $250 in the bank   Everyone wants it come winter time!

Andrew


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## kennyp2339 (Nov 9, 2015)

I did a little more thinking, I spent close to 3G on the bk, another thousand on chimney pipe, 2400 hundred on the splitter then prob another couple hundred on  miscellaneous wood stuff, so I have a little  deficit to make up. I only bought one load of log lengths to get myself a head and now I'm into my "free wood" for heat. I 
I wouldn't say I'm doing all this for free heat, but i come from the perspective of I can save some money by burning rather than heating with fossil fuels and that's what I'm doing, is it worth it? Don't know yet from a money perspective but I'm having a good time doing this


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## Poindexter (Nov 9, 2015)

Plenty of intangibles to be sure.  I can pull 1200 gallons off my oil usage by burning ~9 cords per year, so my savings add up quick.

But if it was more expensive than oil I would probably be tempted to keep heating with wood because I like the way wood heat feels.


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## Shari (Nov 12, 2015)

$2.27 for oil here last week.

Just saw a sign advertising $150/face cord of mixed hardwoods wood.


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## Swedishchef (Nov 12, 2015)

Shari said:


> $2.27 for oil here last week.
> 
> Just saw a sign advertising $150/face cord of mixed hardwoods wood.


FACE CORD!? So $350 for a real cord? Eeeeee. I'd be burning oil with a BIT of wood...

Andrew


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## mass_burner (Nov 12, 2015)

Poindexter said:


> Plenty of intangibles to be sure.  I can pull 1200 gallons off my oil usage by burning ~9 cords per year, so my savings add up quick.
> 
> But if it was more expensive than oil I would probably be tempted to keep heating with wood because I like the way wood heat feels.


Intangibles? Feel of heat? Whether you paid for them or not, the cords of wood you burn have value at the going rate in your area. It's easy: oil<wood, burn oil.


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## Poindexter (Nov 12, 2015)

mass_burner said:


> Intangibles? Feel of heat? Whether you paid for them or not, the cords of wood you burn have value at the going rate in your area. It's easy: oil<wood, burn oil.



Right, but if I stop processing a cord a month, can I keep eating chocolate chip cookies like they are going out of style, or get fat, or start spending X dollars month on a gym membership, or drop a few hundred on equipment and take up cross country skiing...  I like the metabolic rate that comes with being a wood burner.  Especially dark thick sweet stouts with a head on them the color of well seasoned mesquite.


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## mass_burner (Nov 12, 2015)

Poindexter said:


> Right, but if I stop processing a cord a month, can I keep eating chocolate chip cookies like they are going out of style, or get fat, or start spending X dollars month on a gym membership, or drop a few hundred on equipment and take up cross country skiing...  I like the metabolic rate that comes with being a wood burner.  Especially dark thick sweet stouts with a head on them the color of well seasoned mesquite.


Keep choppin', stop burning.


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## BobUrban (Nov 13, 2015)

yea - propane is on  the cheap this year too.  I had my tank topped off at $1.19gal.  That is low, low vs. the past few seasons so the furnace may see some more use this winter but I will still be burning the wood - I love it.

Total cost to top off my tank tax, deliver, bla, bla included - $220.00  -  So for the past year running my stove, dryer, hot water heater and furnace 100% when I am out of town the cost was 220 - I cannot complain.  I have friends that consistently pay more than that per month all winter.


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## velvetfoot (Nov 13, 2015)

I turned off the pellet boiler yesterday and burning oil now.  Might flip flop over time.


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## Brian26 (Nov 14, 2015)

Going down even lower. $1.58 a gallon in the New Haven area.

I had the stove going last night but it was nice to just crank up the t-stat this morning when the wife said she was cold. My oil burner burns about .68 gallons an hour. So for less than a dollar the whole house is nice and toasty for the wife...


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## Knots (Nov 14, 2015)

I may burn a little more propane this year, but having that nice, dry wood in the basement when the storms take out the electricity is priceless...


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## Swedishchef (Nov 14, 2015)

Brian: I presume you'd burn about 3 gallons a day in these temps? No way a furnace could run for 1 hr straight, you'd be melting away in your house. lol

Andrew


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## Brian26 (Nov 14, 2015)

Swedishchef said:


> Brian: I presume you'd burn about 3 gallons a day in these temps? No way a furnace could run for 1 hr straight, you'd be melting away in your house. lol
> 
> Andrew



3 gallons a day.. I used 3 for the whole last 7 days. Its been mild here but its in the 40s now and I got the stove going.

Oil furnace burns at .68 gallons an hour. Here is my last 7 days of use. My Venstar T-stat tracks run times.

About 5 hours of run time at .68 a gallon is 3.4 gallons total use. Total cost $5.37 for the whole week.

I tune my own oil burner and my cousin is a HVAC tech so the burn rate is pretty dead on.

I got a full tank of 300 gallons of cheap oil. I know it will go back up but in the meantime I am running the furnace much more and letting that oak season a bit more outside for when oil is $4 a gallon.

I work a lot and with these prices I find it much easier to just come home and turn up the t-stat.


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## Swedishchef (Nov 14, 2015)

Brian26 said:


> 3 gallons a day.. I used 3 for the whole last 7 days. Its been mild here but its in the 40s now and I got the stove going.
> 
> Oil furnace burns at .68 gallons an hour. Here is my last 7 days of use. My Venstar T-stat tracks run times.
> 
> ...


WOW. If these temps keep up, that's about $25 for a month. I can tell you that I would be burning nearly 1/2 a cord of wood at $250/cord...$125 is a lot more than $25.

Wood and oil seems to be a good combo this year.

Andrew


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## mass_burner (Nov 16, 2015)

Just filled at 1.90. Couldn't wait anymore, running just above E.


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## sportbikerider78 (Nov 19, 2015)

Don't know how in CNY we are still at $2.199 delivered.

Glad I didn't fill up this summer like everyone told me to!  I have a 500 gallon tank...so I like to really 'snipe' the best deal.


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## Z33 (Nov 19, 2015)

Poindexter said:


> Right, but if I stop processing a cord a month, can I keep eating chocolate chip cookies like they are going out of style, or get fat, or start spending X dollars month on a gym membership, or drop a few hundred on equipment and take up cross country skiing...  I like the metabolic rate that comes with being a wood burner.  Especially dark thick sweet stouts with a head on them the color of well seasoned mesquite.




Are you me? Do I have an alter ego on this forum ? Chocolate chip cookies might as well be crack cocaine for me and I'm just finishing up a home brew double chocolate oatmeal stout.  I'm currently 6'1 185 all thanks to working up about 5 cords a year and the occasional run. 

There are DEFINITELY intangibles to processing wood.


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## billb3 (Nov 19, 2015)

I'm seriously considering saving my nice oak and burning pine on the weekends when I have time to keep loading the stove.
I filled at $1.86 a few weeks ago and it's down to $1.70 here now .
I'll sing a different tune when it gets real cold and the hoarder in me gets a little more charitable.


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## Brian26 (Nov 21, 2015)

Another big drop. These are wholesale prices coming into the port in New Haven, CT. Heard through a friend that if you live close to the port there is a company delivering for $1.50 a gallon.


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## billb3 (Nov 21, 2015)

HHO price range retail locally is $1.649 to $2.49

What seems odd to me is diesel at Mobil at the highway exit at $2.79


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## Swedishchef (Nov 21, 2015)

I find there seems to be a fair amount of profit off of wholesale furnace oil!


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## billb3 (Nov 21, 2015)

Seems like if you live close to a wholesale distribution  point ( I live near a port here ) the price can be fairly low .
Too many business models and margins and overheads to make any sweeping gens about what they  should be,


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## Seasoned Oak (Nov 21, 2015)

IF you dont have an excess of wood burn the oil in the shoulder season,save the wood for when its really needed. Ill be buying oil for same long dormant heating equipment iv decided to reinstall as a backup.


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## Dix (Nov 21, 2015)

I have a 550 oil tank, it's been about empty for 5 years.Heated with fire wood exclusively for all of that time. I neglected to drain the heating pipes a few years ago, and one busted on the lower level of the house, never fixed it.
Pipe is getting fixed, burner is getting a tune up, and I'm keeping the T Stats at 62, and will run with oil for a base ( less than $2 a gallon here currently) ) and supplement with the firewood.
I will keep stocking and stacking because the current oil prices will not last forever ( like after the next election, but I digress).
I have more firewood coming in, and will continue that.
Get ahead, 'cause these prices are not going to last.


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## Ashful (Nov 21, 2015)

I don't think $1.69/gal is cheap oil.  Heck, I was paying $0.70/gal before Katrina.  Still burning here, but I'll be burning no matter what the oil prices do.  Can't sit in front of the boiler and watch a movie with the kids.


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## AmbDrvr253 (Nov 21, 2015)

Ashful said:


> I don't think $1.69/gal is cheap oil.  Heck, I was paying $0.70/gal before Katrina.  Still burning here, but I'll be burning no matter what the oil prices do.  Can't sit in front of the boiler and watch a movie with the kids.


 
X2


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## Seasoned Oak (Nov 22, 2015)

$1.69 may not be cheap compared to the 90s prices But were comparing it to todays other inflated fuel prices . In 2002 coal was $80 a ton now it $200.
Ill do a cost analysis today to see just how it compares ,there are plenty of BTU heat content chart available on the internet.


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## Swedishchef (Nov 22, 2015)

I have learned something lately: my stove is too big for the room it is in. The room is 20x16 but my couch is 8 feet away. We sweat to death when trying to watch tv downstairs! My kids cheeks get all rosy red. Lol. The little one says "dad I am too hot, my face is on fire! I am going upstairs"

That being said, if oil was 40 cents a litre here, lots of people would be filling their tanks. Locally the price is still $0.79/litre. Which is aboutn$3 a gallon.

A


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## Seasoned Oak (Nov 22, 2015)

Swedishchef said:


> I have learned something lately: my stove is too big for the room it is in. The room is 20x16 but my couch is 8 feet away. We sweat to death when trying to watch tv downstairs! My kids cheeks get all rosy red. Lol. The little one says "dad I am too hot, my face is on fire! I am going upstairs"
> 
> That being said, if oil was 40 cents a litre here, lots of people would be filling their tanks. Locally the price is still $0.79/litre. Which is aboutn$3 a gallon.
> 
> A


Must be the Govt taxing you or your far from the oil terminals. Crude oil was below $1 a gallon briefly this week. Another 50 to 60c for refining puts you at about $1.60 a gallon


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## Brian26 (Nov 22, 2015)

billb3 said:


> Seems like if you live close to a wholesale distribution  point ( I live near a port here ) the price can be fairly low .
> Too many business models and margins and overheads to make any sweeping gens about what they  should be,



Correct. I live a few miles from the port in Hew Haven which is one of the biggest entry ports for heating oil. Oil in the immediate New Haven area is much cheaper than other areas as they don't have to transport it far.

I was crunching some numbers. I tune my own furnace with my cousin as he is an HVAC tech.

I had maybe 2 fires so far this month. With these oil prices I have been just turning up the t-stat and not even bothering with the stove.

My furnace is fired at .68 gallons an hour and my Venstar t-stat tracks runtimes.

So far this month I used about 11 gallons. 11 gallons at local prices at $1.50 is $16.50. Im guessing the whole month will probably cost me less than $20 in heating oil.

As much as I love the insert and burning its nice to just set the t-stat and have the whole house evenly warm. Something my insert just can't do.


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## Swedishchef (Nov 22, 2015)

Seasoned Oak said:


> Must be the Govt taxing you or your far from the oil terminals. Crude oil was below $1 a gallon briefly this week. Another 50 to 60c for refining puts you at about $1.60 a gallon


Must be taxes...and transportation fees.
http://www2.nrcan.gc.ca/eneene/sour...&ProductID=7&LocationID=66,8,39,17#PriceGraph


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## Redbarn (Dec 16, 2015)

Bought 400 gals of oil at $1.33 per gall today.
Still burning wood & pellets.
The oil is a hedge against higher future oil price rises. Should last years.


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## Seasoned Oak (Dec 17, 2015)

Redbarn said:


> Bought 400 gals of oil at $1.33 per gall today.
> Still burning wood & pellets.
> The oil is a hedge against higher future oil price rises. Should last years.


Im planning on filling my empty tanks soon as a backup heating source and also shoulder season source and a going on vacation in winter heat source. So ill actually have 3 ways to heat, Oil,coal and wood. I have at least 2000 gals worth of empty tanks.


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## Ashful (Dec 17, 2015)

Seasoned Oak said:


> I have at least 2000 gals worth of empty tanks.


Wow!  The house I grew up in had a 1500 gallon buried tank in the back yard, and it was always a notable deduction in the check book when that was filled.  Never heard of anyone sitting on 2000 gallons, unless their residence was floating, with displacement measured in tons.


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## Seasoned Oak (Dec 18, 2015)

Ashful said:


> Wow!  The house I grew up in had a 1500 gallon buried tank in the back yard, and it was always a notable deduction in the check book when that was filled.  Never heard of anyone sitting on 2000 gallons, unless their residence was floating, with displacement measured in tons.


One 1000 Gal. buried tank installed in late 90s and about 4 or 5  275 gal. above ground tanks in the garage and work shop. Im also in the process of reinstalling my oil boiler in my house cuz when i sell it, my wood stove and coal stoker are going with me. Ill use the oil when i go on vacation or in shoulder season.


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## Seasoned Oak (Dec 18, 2015)

I had so many tanks cuz i could buy oil for 79c in summer as opposed to $1.60 in winter. Paid for the tanks in 1 year.


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