# The importance of seasoned wood - Dry vs Wet



## begreen

This is a somewhat extreme case comparing dry wood @ 16% moisture and wet wood @38%.  38% is just under dripping wet or like green wood that was split recently.


Adding a second video. Short and to the point.


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## Shrewboy

Wow! That explains why the creosote builds up so quickly with "wet" wood.


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## begreen

Yes, wet wood can dramatically reduce fire and flue temps. The flue gases cool down further as they head up the flue. When the gases drop below about 250ºF they start condensing on the cooler flue walls. This is what forms creosote.


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## Woodsplitter67

I just shared this with a few people.. thanks for the post.. I think alot of people don't realize how wet the wood there burning really is


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## begreen

I wanted to see how our wood is drying so I got out the moisture meter. It's the same General meter shown in the video. It is now at 23.5% and drying well. We will probably dip into it by December. Then I tested some green soft maple that was just cut down last weekend. It tested at 44.2%. That's almost half water! In spring it would have been even wetter. You can see by this that the wood used in the video was quite green. Maybe "seasoned" for a few weeks.


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## Ctwoodtick

Dry wood definitely makes a world of difference. I had my first fire a couple days ago. Stack is 2 yrs old with mostly Norway maple. Some ornamental cherry in there for some reason appeared to be hardly seasoned and it slowed the heat WAY down. 
     I also remember my early days with wet wood and struggling to get heat from insert. Now, with my super easy breathing Jotul Rockland and dry wood, it hard to keep temps lower than 700.


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## FTG-05

Great video!  Thanks for posting it!


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## kennyp2339

The struggle is real, my first season of burning was a real crap shoot, I didnt really know nothing about nothing when it came to efficient wood heating.
I installed my own stove, class a chimney (with the help of a friend) and was totally comfortable with the idea that I would just go into the woods, find a dead standing tree, chop it down, split and stack on the front porch. 
I did just that and I struggled through the first season with keeping the air control opened at all times, smoke constantly coming out the chimney, plugged cap and 2 cleanings during the season (luckily it was a semi warm winter here) 
That spring I kept with the dead wood idea, but I was able to cut up about 3 cords of it and let it dry for the spring / summer and fall season, the following winter was a night and day difference and I learned the value of using dry wood.


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## PaulOinMA

It looks like England has banned the sale of what they call wet wood for pollution concerns.  Things like those small bundles of non-dry wood for sale in places.


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## SpaceBus

PaulOinMA said:


> It looks like England has banned the sale of what they call wet wood for pollution concerns.  Things like those small bundles of non-dry wood for sale in places.


I wish they would do this everywhere.


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## Manly

Dry is always better.


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## firefighterjake

Manly said:


> Dry is always better.



We are talking about wood here, right?  

Me . . . I like my steak nice and juicy . . . but was raised by my mother cooking it until it was a dry piece of shoe leather.


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## JRHAWK9

Currently burning some 5+ year old pine early this fall.  Took a split and re-split it and then poked it just out of curiosity.


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## buc74

JRHAWK9, this pine was previous not split I'm guessing?


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## JRHAWK9

buc74 said:


> JRHAWK9, this pine was previous not split I'm guessing?



it was previously split...and stacked for 5+ years under a top cover.

You can see the difference in color between the original split face and newly split face.


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## buc74

Just wondering, maybe thats as dry as pine will get. I've been liking burning pine for a few years now and after a year covered its at 14 or less for me.


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## JRHAWK9

buc74 said:


> Just wondering, maybe thats as dry as pine will get. I've been liking burning pine for a few years now and after a year covered its at 14 or less for me.



You probably have much better drying environment than I do.  My wood is stacked in the middle of the woods, so it doesn't get much sun or wind during the summer months.  Once the leaves are off the trees, then it gets some sun and more wind, but we don't get much sun in winter around here.  Plus the temps in winter are not conducive to drying either.    

Wood does lose/gain moisture once it reaches that equilibrium point though.  So I'm guessing this pine has been at that point for quite awhile now and it's moisture has been dependent on how humid/dry the air has been.  I was actually surprised at how low it was knowing how humid our summers are and the environment at which it was stacked in over the years.


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## moresnow

buc74 said:


> Just wondering, maybe thats as dry as pine will get. I've been liking burning pine for a few years now and after a year covered its at 14 or less for me.


Take a peek at the bottom of this page. Should explain why your low M/C point is where it's at. Looks very normal for your location.



			Woodworkers Source: Equilibrium Moisture Content  [custom wws]


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## JRHAWK9

moresnow said:


> Take a peek at the bottom of this page. Should explain why your low M/C point is where it's at. Looks very normal for your location.
> 
> 
> 
> Woodworkers Source: Equilibrium Moisture Content  [custom wws]




yup.

I'm still waiting for my oak to get to that point though.  Stuff I will be burning this winter, once I start burning oak, was split/stacked in fall of '14.  So 5 years.  Last time I checked a few splits it was right around that 18-19% area.


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## buc74

JRHAWK9 said:


> You probably have much better drying environment than I do.  My wood is stacked in the middle of the woods, so it doesn't get much sun or wind during the summer months.  Once the leaves are off the trees, then it gets some sun and more wind, but we don't get much sun in winter around here.  Plus the temps in winter are not conducive to drying either.
> 
> Wood does lose/gain moisture once it reaches that equilibrium point though.  So I'm guessing this pine has been at that point for quite awhile now and it's moisture has been dependent on how humid/dry the air has been.  I was actually surprised at how low it was knowing how humid our summers are and the environment at which it was stacked in over the years.



Our wood is in direct sun most of the time, that's likely the difference.


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## Maj92az

Wow neat. I dont have a meter but I was having a heck of a time using some wood that stored in a basement for 2 years. I can imagine it's not getting the same treatment as outside. I'll need to haul it out and swap with my own  ( was putdown there by PO). No wonder they had many issues with record breaking creosote. I probably could contact someone about longest operating stove/ furnace with most build up world record. Man were they dumb and oblivious.


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## Boater

Maj92az said:


> Wow neat. I dont have a meter but I was having a heck of a time using some wood that stored in a basement for 2 years. I can imagine it's not getting the same treatment as outside. I'll need to haul it out and swap with my own  ( was putdown there by PO). No wonder they had many issues with record breaking creosote. I probably could contact someone about longest operating stove/ furnace with most build up world record. Man were they dumb and oblivious.


No that would have been me with our old Dutchwest 2462 that I obviously had no clue how to operate!  Older and hopefully wiser now (thanks to this site) with a Jotul 500


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## bholler

You guys have no idea how bad some chimneys are


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## jmb6420

I'm lucky here compared to a lot of you. I've got oak both red & white that was CSS in March - June of 2019.  It's all testing below 15%.  Oklahoma sun & wind helped it right along.


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## bholler

jmb6420 said:


> I'm lucky here compared to a lot of you. I've got oak both red & white that was CSS in March - June of 2019.  It's all testing below 15%.  Oklahoma sun & wind helped it right along.


Is that on a fresh split face?  I can get oak to 17 or 18 in that time period if the weather is right


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## NickW

Yep. My experience is still going on with this. Last January I replaced my old smoke dragon with an EPA stove. Usually css in spring and burned it in fall, was able to make it work in the old stove. New one was a learning experience... The leftover ash from spring was OK, but by February I was trying to burn beech and hard maple css in fall. It can be done, but as stated by others it's a chore. Gotta get the heat up to get the moisture boiled out and minimize creosote before getting decent heat and by then you've burned up a lot of it.

This year I'm burning what's left of the oldest beech and maple along with softwood and ash css this spring. Pine is 16%, silver maple is 23%, Aspen is 17-22%, beech is mostly around 20% and hard maple is 22-23% and I sorted my way through the ash css in spring that is now the back stacks that is 18-24%. Not terrible #'s, but also not ideal - some fires go well and others are a struggle. Have it all in the garage with a fan on it to promote air flow to try to get it down some more. That ash was an interesting tree - trunk was 38% or higher and branches 28% or lower in spring. Mostly burning a mix of soft and hard right now.

I am in full gather and css mode. Will have enough css for next year already by the end of the week (ash, beech & aspen which season pretty well). Will be moving on to more for the next 2 years after that to get 3 years ahead. I've got access to some primo stuff - beech, hard maple, ash & oak. Have a little hickory & honey locust css for 2 years from now too. Softwoods are almost always readily available...

But, back to the subject... yes, wet wood sucks. Burn it hot and inspect the flue and cap regularly and clean it often; then do everything you can to get 2-3 years ahead.


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## jmb6420

bholler said:


> Is that on a fresh split face?  I can get oak to 17 or 18 in that time period if the weather is right


Yes, fresh split face.  My wood sets in the sun and it isn't unusual to have 3 months during the summer with very little rain and temps in the 90s and 100s.


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## bholler

jmb6420 said:


> Yes, fresh split face.  My wood sets in the sun and it isn't unusual to have 3 months during the summer with very little rain and temps in the 90s and 100s.


Good just making sure


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## Ctwoodtick

JRHAWK9 said:


> it was previously split...and stacked for 5+ years under a top cover.
> 
> You can see the difference in color between the original split face and newly split face.
> 
> View attachment 265573


    Pine seems to register lower than expected on MM. but after that long, 14 percent would be expected. Pine dries out quick too. You were probably at 14% yrs ago.


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## agonyzhou

For me the moisture meter is over-rated. I do have one, but it has like 7 different settings for different woods, and I am terrible at telling wood species. Plus I misplaced the instruction manual so I couldn't set it to the correct setting had I know the species for sure.
Right now my method is like this:

If the wood _feels_ wet, don't burn it.
If you are not sure, throw a piece on a bed of hot coal and carefully observe it through the glass.
I still don't know for sure the actual moisture level, but at least I only burn wood that I feel comfortable burning.


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## bholler

agonyzhou said:


> For me the moisture meter is over-rated. I do have one, but it has like 7 different settings for different woods, and I am terrible at telling wood species. Plus I misplaced the instruction manual so I couldn't set it to the correct setting had I know the species for sure.
> Right now my method is like this:
> 
> If the wood _feels_ wet, don't burn it.
> If you are not sure, throw a piece on a bed of hot coal and carefully observe it through the glass.
> I still don't know for sure the actual moisture level, but at least I only burn wood that I feel comfortable burning.


Yes most experienced burners don't need a mm.  But it is a great tool for new users.  And I still randomly check samples just to be sure


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## begreen

I burned for over 30 yrs without a moisture meter. Finally got one so that I could provide accurate info here. In lieu of having a meter I did several tests on various spits in the shed. First I would pick the thickest splits to resplit. After resplitting, put the new face of the wood up against your cheek. You can feel it if is damp. The other tests were weight. I compare to a known dry piece of wood. I also bang them together. If they go thud, then back in the pile. And yes, observing how they burn and watching for bubbling on the ends is also a good check.


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## NickW

I love my cheap little $14 Menards mm. Do I trust it as gospel? No, but it gives some guidance. If I split ash that's 24-30% in spring it burns fine come fall. Over 35% and it's gotta wait. In between is a crap shoot, so I try to at least wait with that until I run out of decent stuff. Definitely have to make sure it's warm but not hot - room temperature. Hot or cold can give a lot of variation...


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## begreen

If you can cut wood in the winter when the sap is not flowing, it will dry quicker after splitting.


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## Woody Stover

NickW said:


> I love my cheap little $14 Menards mm.


Except for the color, that looks identical to the cheapie I got at Harbor Fright. I'm not a fan of the four button-cell batteries; They seem to lose contact sometimes. But the meter's a few years old, and still working. It's small, easily fitting into a front pants pocket.


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## peakbagger

I have been burning wood for 30 years and never owned a moisture meter. I can usually confirm its dry enough by knocking a few splits together. Wet hardwood gives a dull thump while dry hardwood gives a sharper crack. Definitely not a substitute for a year plus of drying under cover but a good check.


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## SpaceBus

begreen said:


> I burned for over 30 yrs without a moisture meter. Finally got one so that I could provide accurate info here. In lieu of having a meter I did several tests on various spits in the shed. First I would pick the thickest splits to resplit. After resplitting, put the new face of the wood up against your cheek. You can feel it if is damp. The other tests were weight. I compare to a known dry piece of wood. I also bang them together. If they go thud, then back in the pile. And yes, observing how they burn and watching for bubbling on the ends is also a good check.


I saw you post this on another thread when I first joined. Cheek to fresh split face has been more accurate than my regular and pin-less moisture meter (hygrometer). The one caveat is that the wood really needs to be room temperature to tell for sure if going by feel.


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## peakbagger

Yup frozen wood tends to screw up the highly sophisticated thump test .


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## SpaceBus

peakbagger said:


> Yup frozen wood tends to screw up the highly sophisticated thump test .


Our first winter the "thump test" really did throw us off, thinking our wood was drier than it was.


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## begreen

peakbagger said:


> Yup frozen wood tends to screw up the highly sophisticated thump test .


And it may stick to your cheek!


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## Woody Stover

Yep, you knock splits together and they may sound good, yet they still may be wet.


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## CenterTree

begreen said:


> And it may stick to your cheek!


  Or worse.....


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## firefighterjake

I like to lick the maple wood . . . tastes like pancakes with syrup when it's still not seasoned.  







And yes . . . I am kidding. 

I don't lick my firewood.

I do however take in long, deep breaths of my cherry and apple wood.


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## peakbagger

People do not typically ascribe a wood pulp mill as smelling good but our mill in Berlin "cooked" both hardwood and softwood with our predominate hardwood species being maple. When they were washing the hardwood on the pulp washers, there was a distinct maple smell in the washer building. Long ago using another older pulping  process pulp mills would capture and refine that vanillin smell  and it was sold as artificial vanilla extract. Southern Pine mills are still the major source of flavorings and fragrance base. Most of the the "rose oil" in perfume come from pine trees. Look on any can of orange soda and there is usually "ester of wood rosin" in the ingredient list


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## LiamFitzpatrick

Great video; thanks for sharing.  I have re-posted on FB for my friends that might be trying to burn wood and not be able to access the vast amount of knowledge and experience here on this forum.  We have been learning on the fast track learning curve around our place in Southern Kentucky with our Hardy OWB.  We've been gathering wood that was down in the forest as windfall but some of that is still pretty wet too.  Most of what's on the ground tends to rot so we're careful about what we pick up.  I'm glad that we have a backup gas heating heat system because I don't think we'll be able to make it through this winter on wood alone.

We have been blessed with some very dry wood and been able to successfully burn for a few weeks to learn the difference between a good burn of dry and the struggle to burn wet.  This thread should be pinned to the top for newbies that don't yet know the difference.  I'm really glad that I found this information.  Several people I have talked to directly (not on this forum) have suggested that it's ok to burn wet wood if you mix it with the "dry stuff" but I've learned the difference and the amount of wood required to keep the wet wood burning is at least twice the normal volume.  Even though some people think of heating with wood as "free heat" the amount of time and fuel required to produce the CSS inventory is not free so burning wet wood sounds like a very poor trade of resources unless it's an emergency.

Glad to have this forum as a source of good information.


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## gggvan

Ctwoodtick said:


> Dry wood definitely makes a world of difference. I had my first fire a couple days ago. Stack is 2 yrs old with mostly Norway maple. Some ornamental cherry in there for some reason appeared to be hardly seasoned and it slowed the heat WAY down.
> I also remember my early days with wet wood and struggling to get heat from insert. Now, with my super easy breathing Jotul Rockland and dry wood, it hard to keep temps lower than 700.



2 years for Norway Maple? You must have had other batches in front of it, so you didn't need it.


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## McKraut

Thank you for posting this. You can tell people until you are blue in the face the importance of dry wood, but a picture is worth a thousand words!


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## FTG-05

My moisture meter is a calendar.  The maximum moisture level I'll burn is species plus one year.  Usually it's +4 years.  This last heating season, the wood I burned I put up March 2016.  I'll finish that batch of wood next year's heating season, making it about 6 years moisture levels.


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## Shrewboy

FTG-05 said:


> My moisture meter is a calendar.  The maximum moisture level I'll burn is species plus one year.  Usually it's +4 years.  This last heating season, the wood I burned I put up March 2016.  I'll finish that batch of wood next year's heating season, making it about 6 years moisture levels.



I had some wood that I cut and stacked 5 years ago, under some black rubber roofing material (before I knew anything about woodstoves, this was for a little firepit)

The difference in heat output, low smoke, easy to start, was astounding! For anyone that hasn't experienced truly bone dry wood: It is definitely worth it to get your wood nice and dry!


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## EJL923

new members should be forced to watch that video before activating their account.


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## DeadTreeBurner

McKraut said:


> Thank you for posting this. You can tell people until you are blue in the face the importance of dry wood, but a picture is worth a thousand words!


It's amazing how stubbornly dumb some people can be.


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## sweedish

I had a oak quartersawn into boards, and took them to get then milled into floors, but first off to a kiln. The Miller said that the lowest Mc air dried boards he sees are only 14%.


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## McKraut

Not a bad idea! Should also be mandatory for anyone buying a new stove or boiler.


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## McKraut

Sorry, I was trying to quote EJL923 "new members should be forced to watch that video before activating their account. "


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## RockyMtnGriz

I got a MM with my furnace.  The main problem I have with using it is the standard that the wood should be at 70 degrees.  If I had stuff at 70 degrees regularly, I'd have so much less use for wood!

Seriously - does anybody have any real info on how temperature affects the readings?  Being able to convert to 50 or 20 would make the thing usable.

Not that it's hard to tell with softwood if it's dry or not, but it would be a fun toy to have to compare to the moisture levels so many people post about.


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## kennyp2339

RockyMtnGriz said:


> I got a MM with my furnace.  The main problem I have with using it is the standard that the wood should be at 70 degrees.  If I had stuff at 70 degrees regularly, I'd have so much less use for wood!
> 
> Seriously - does anybody have any real info on how temperature affects the readings?  Being able to convert to 50 or 20 would make the thing usable.
> 
> Not that it's hard to tell with softwood if it's dry or not, but it would be a fun toy to have to compare to the moisture levels so many people post about.


Your not testing every piece of every batch, you testing the pile, so bring a couple random splits inside, let them warm up, re-split and test, if its in the ball park and batch was cut and split at the same time and kept in a place were the batch is kept together, 3 or 4 random pieces will tell you whether the whole pile is good or not.


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## LiamFitzpatrick

As far as drying wood, I figure that it takes over 12 months for almost anything to cure properly.  If my supposition is true, you can test almost any part of your stacks in mid summer when everything is at 70° and have a real good idea what will be ready when fall comes around and everybody lights their fires for the heating season.

I've been using a sharpie marker to write the date stacked on the ends of a few pieces in each stack.  So far, I can read the date for months but I don't have anything that is a year old yet so my "dating method" hasn't really been tested long enough but I believe that it'll prove out.  Once the stack exceeds 12  months of curing time, I'll be interested in testing moisture content; until each stack passes 12 months, it's a moot point.

So, if I CSS any wood like the hickory I finished yesterday, I figure it won't be ready to test for 12 months, like the hickory will be tested next spring and I won't need to burn it until next fall which would put it cycle for use after almost 18 months of curing time.  Should be good by then but like I say, I'm new at this and this is only my theory that I haven't proven out yet.

I figure if you're trying to burn anything before it's cured 12 months, you're wasting energy in BTUs lost and frustrating yourself trying to keep a fire going using wet wood.  Just my $.02 worth and not worth the paper it's written on...


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## NickW

There are "general rules" for drying times of different species. Obviously will depend on climate and how it is stored. I found a BTU chart that includes them. Most pines are 6 mo, other softwoods (silver & red maple, box elder, Aspen, etc.) generally 1 yr, ash 1 year, elm 18 mo, birch-maple-locust-hickory 2 years, oaks 3 years...

Some claim to get oak ready in 1 year in a tight shed elevated off the ground, others won't use it in under 4 years. 

I seperate by species now when stacking after last year having to sort through my stacks and pull out the ash for burning and leaving the maple to season longer. It was my first year with an EPA stove.


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## weatherguy

If you cant get oak ready in two years you need to find a new place to stack where its exposed to sun and wind. I know not everyone has that option but two years where I stack and it's down to 20%.


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## begreen

weatherguy said:


> If you cant get oak ready in two years you need to find a new place to stack where its exposed to sun and wind. I know not everyone has that option but two years where I stack and it's down to 20%.


Drying time also depends on the split thickness. Locally a friend is testing this with 3" thick oak splits that was stacked last summer. We'll be checking it around August to see how it's doing.


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## RockyMtnGriz

I had the opportunity to cut a little bit of wood over the weekend.  Since the idea was for this wood to go straight from the forest to the furnace, I was close to the house with a warm furnace room, and able to do some moisture meter temperature correction experimenting.  This is all lodgepole pine,  standing dead for 5+ years, on a south facing slope in full sun.  This is the driest time of the year here for standing dead here if it's on a south slope, except maybe during the peak week or few of fire season.

For what it's worth to you, here's what I found, by approximate temperature:

Tree top:   40 deg - 4%,  70 deg - 6%
Tree trunk:  40 deg - 8%,  70 deg - 11%

Different tree:
Base - 2nd round up:  45 deg -13%,  70 deg - 16%

I thought that was interesting!  It's too small of a sample, but the difference sure was consistent!  I wonder if the difference would hold in wetter wood, and I'm going to take a guess it probably wouldn't across species.


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## creek chub

If you have the time, space and pep in your step, get on the 3 year wood plan. Basically, the wood your process today will be burnt 3 years from now. It takes a lot of space and work, but wet wood problems go away completely. I generally cut dead standing oak/hickory and it dries very nice. If I need to bump my inventory up to meet drying times, I’ll cut some red maple which dries very quickly


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## Todd

How dry is too dry? In my Jotul manual it states wood seasoned more than 24 months hurts the lower end efficiency of the stove. Also looking at the EPA test of my stove they used Red Oak at 19-20% moisture. So if they used 15% Oak how would that effect the test?

lately I’ve been burning 5 year old mixed hardwood that is very dry 15% give or take. Most of the time it likes to outgass just about all at once, burns very hot for an hour then turns into a big pile of coal which doesn’t seem to give off much heat. Maybe that’s what Jotul means by low end efficiency? I have to keep adjusting the air higher throughout the burn in order to burn the coals down enough for the next reload. In comparison when I burn a full load of 1 year old18-20% Aspen it off gasses slower and burns through to a smaller base of coals without messing with the air. I know there are many variables in all this but I think I prefer burning the Aspen . It only takes 6-12 months to drop to 20% and I don’t need to stock pile 3 years worth of harder woods to get to the magic 20%.


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## Ctwoodtick

Todd said:


> How dry is too dry? In my Jotul manual it states wood seasoned more than 24 months hurts the lower end efficiency of the stove. Also looking at the EPA test of my stove they used Red Oak at 19-20% moisture. So if they used 15% Oak how would that effect the test?
> 
> lately I’ve been burning 5 year old mixed hardwood that is very dry 15% give or take. Most of the time it likes to outgass just about all at once, burns very hot for an hour then turns into a big pile of coal which doesn’t seem to give off much heat. Maybe that’s what Jotul means by low end efficiency? I have to keep adjusting the air higher throughout the burn in order to burn the coals down enough for the next reload. In comparison when I burn a full load of 1 year old18-20% Aspen it off gasses slower and burns through to a smaller base of coals without messing with the air. I know there are many variables in all this but I think I prefer burning the Aspen . It only takes 6-12 months to drop to 20% and I don’t need to stock pile 3 years worth of harder woods to get to the magic 20%.


Jotul says 24 months but they probably should give a specific moisture content instead. With very dry wood (like 15%) I’d try not to load in a hot stove (more than 350 stovetop). I have a newer 2020 regency 2450 that goes a bit crazy if I load very dry wood on hot coals.


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## Todd

Ctwoodtick said:


> Jotul says 24 months but they probably should give a specific moisture content instead. With very dry wood (like 15%) I’d try not to load in a hot stove (more than 350 stovetop). I have a newer 2020 regency 2450 that goes a bit crazy if I load very dry wood on hot coals.


Agreed, moisture content would be better but they use 20% for testing so is that what they consider optimal? I’m thinking 15% could be too dry in certain situations.


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## Ctwoodtick

Todd said:


> Agreed, moisture content would be better but they use 20% for testing so is that what they consider optimal? I’m thinking 15% could be too dry in certain situations.


Could be, which you’d figure would be more user friendly for most. I’ve noticed a big difference with my normal 18-21 percent wood, compared to either times of drought or when I had inherited some bone dry wood stored in a shed for several years.


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## creek chub

Todd said:


> Agreed, moisture content would be better but they use 20% for testing so is that what they consider optimal? I’m thinking 15% could be too dry in certain situations.


Dang, this has me rethinking my 3 year wood plan.


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## stoveliker

3 years in a shed should be good in almost all cases


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## Ctwoodtick

creek chub said:


> Dang, this has me rethinking my 3 year wood plan.


I’d always go for 3yrs as opposed to less. Can always turn the stove down sooner.


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## NickW

Turn the air down sooner. This year my wood is better seasoned than previous years and I've noticed I need to pay more attention to how the fire is acting rather than stt during reloads.


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## Todd

I definitely have to turn the stove down sooner with this wood, 10 min and I’m at low. It slows it down temporarily but it still comes back strong and is at full off gassing in 30-45 min. I haven’t overfired yet but need to keep a closer eye on things.


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## NickW

Todd said:


> I definitely have to turn the stove down sooner with this wood, 10 min and I’m at low. It slows it down temporarily but it still comes back strong and is at full off gassing in 30-45 min. I haven’t overfired yet but need to keep a closer eye on things.


Maybe try an E/W load if your getting down to your lowest air setting. This year, with my wood being drier, besides shutting down faster I can shut it farther without smoking the glass


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## lml999

My stove is *off* for the next two weeks because I burned a mix of dry and wet wood earlier this season. Now I'm getting crappy draft and smoke into the room every time I open the door.  I suspect that I've got some creosote buildup as a result of burning green oak. 

I was scheduled for a cleaning tomorrow but had it pushed back two weeks due a staffing issue with my sweep's company...


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## stoveliker

Buy a soot eater and clean it yourself from the inside up.


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## FPX Dude

I'm on the 3-year plan now.  Split one the other day and measured at 6%, wow.   Fires are hotter, last longer, and burning with less wood.  Have to monitor differently as they really take off and don't want an over fire.


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## begreen

RockyMtnGriz said:


> Seriously - does anybody have any real info on how temperature affects the readings? Being able to convert to 50 or 20 would make the thing usable.


Rough anecdotal testing showed a 3% difference between 35º and 72º, so maybe add 3%? Or just bring in the heaviest log occasionally the night before and test in the morning.


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## begreen

FPX Dude said:


> and measured at 6%, wow


That sounds like the MM is out of calibration. 6% is extremely hard to achieve. It's lower than flooring or cabinetry wood that has been ideally stored indoors for a long time. It's well below where kiln-dried would come out.


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## mcdougy

On hot coals and when adding DRY wood, I don t turn the air up at all...l  put wood in with air all the way down results in a bit slower take off but I feel it eliminates the potential of "taking off" and potential overfire...the time it takes to "catch" would be similar  to the time I would need to monitor and turn down if I had turned up the air at reload time....I do t think there is any dow side to this approach , but maybe there is? I am doing this in a PE fp30 "tube" stove


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## stoveliker

mcdougy said:


> On hot coals and when adding DRY wood, I don t turn the air up at all...l  put wood in with air all the way down results in a bit slower take off but I feel it eliminates the potential of "taking off" and potential overfire...the time it takes to "catch" would be similar  to the time I would need to monitor and turn down if I had turned up the air at reload time....I do t think there is any dow side to this approach , but maybe there is? I am doing this in a PE fp30 "tube" stove


A potential downside is that a "raging" fire of that duration may have less emissions than a smoldering of that duration before it catches?


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## NickW

I open the air all the way before opening the door just to warm the flue a little more and help re-establish draft so when I reload there's less chance of smoke spillage. On a hot reload with good dry wood I'll be shut down to cruising position again pretty quickly.


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## lml999

stoveliker said:


> Buy a soot eater and clean it yourself from the inside up.



I'm okay to wait for the professionals.


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## lml999

lml999 said:


> I'm okay to wait for the professionals.


So...the professionals showed up and did their thing. Cleaned the liner from below, inspected from above. Gave me a bill.

There was a good amount of creosote in the liner, and the cap was somewhat blocked with (paper ash, i think).  All the creosote came down nicely, was not stuck to the liner. The sweep didn't think anything was wrong, other than my wood isn't dry enough and I've been using too much paper to get fires going.

I've been burning for a while and just got sloppy. I know better. That's why I stopped and called the sweep.

So...I have a half cord of two year old oak that I can burn, plus three cords of green wood, and another half cord of green wood that needs to be split. Remind me not to get behind in my wood bank... (my wife just doesn't understand why I need more wood if we already have all this wood stacked...)

Will have our first fire tonight in a couple of weeks...


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## stoveliker

Show your wife some wood sheds from this site to show what's normal.
I (plan) to only burn 2.5-2.75 cords a year. This is my 3 year shed. (It's full now.) 8 ft deep, avg 7 ft tall, 18 ft wide.


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## lml999

stoveliker said:


> Show your wife some wood sheds from this site to show what's normal.
> I (plan) to only burn 2.5-2.75 cords a year. This is my 3 year shed. (It's full now.) 8 ft deep, avg 7 ft tall, 18 ft wide.
> 
> View attachment 290217



Oh, shed porn. 

Show my wife what's normal?

Uh oh.

Several years ago I asked the question "how many cyclocross bikes does someone really need?"

Turns out, for me, the answer was five. 

Normal?

Normal isn't my issue. (It *is* a concern of my wife...) Real estate is the challenge. I just don't have good space to bank more than about five cords, and yes, I am planning on building a shed in the spring...


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## stoveliker

Hey at least I suggested*you* show things ....


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## lml999

stoveliker said:


> Hey at least I suggested*you* show things ....


Well, I do appreciate it. I'll give it a shot...

Wish me luck!


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## weatherguy

lml999 said:


> So...the professionals showed up and did their thing. Cleaned the liner from below, inspected from above. Gave me a bill.
> 
> There was a good amount of creosote in the liner, and the cap was somewhat blocked with (paper ash, i think).  All the creosote came down nicely, was not stuck to the liner. The sweep didn't think anything was wrong, other than my wood isn't dry enough and I've been using too much paper to get fires going.
> 
> I've been burning for a while and just got sloppy. I know better. That's why I stopped and called the sweep.
> 
> So...I have a half cord of two year old oak that I can burn, plus three cords of green wood, and another half cord of green wood that needs to be split. Remind me not to get behind in my wood bank... (my wife just doesn't understand why I need more wood if we already have all this wood stacked...)
> 
> Will have our first fire tonight in a couple of weeks...


Why are you using so much paper to start fires? Get some super cedars, you won't need any paper. I'm lot challenged to so you have to get creative to get enough wood on your lot to season properly.


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## neverstop

The other night I loaded my stove with 4 dry splits that had  no bark, temperature was in the teens and 15 mph winds had a pretty good draft going. Wood caught on a hot bed of coals quickly, I closed the by-pass, started turning down the primary. At about 75% closed I checked the STT (600) and flue (410 single wall) then realized the fire was picking up in intensity and I fully closed the primary. STT rose to 620, flue to 420 and then they started to decrease and secondaries were sustained. 10 minutes later I realized the glass had gotten very dirty, i could see the box was full of smoke and STT was 715 and flue was 445. secondaries were firing hard and fumes were being ignited all over the box not just at the 2ndary inlets. Those were the peak temperatures I saw. 

I'm wondering what I did that caused the glass to get so dirty? Should I have cracked the primary open slightly after peak temps were hit initially, or was I just slow on shutting down the air?

This was the first load I have burned that I ensured all splits were dry, and that didn't have any bark on them (wood was white ash/hickory/elm)


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## stoveliker

I think you closed the primary too much at once. Doing it in smaller steps (and starting a bit earlier) may help.


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## lml999

weatherguy said:


> Why are you using so much paper to start fires? Get some super cedars, you won't need any paper. I'm lot challenged to so you have to get creative to get enough wood on your lot to season properly.



Just got some Super Cedars, will try them tomorrow.

Stove is much happier with the clean liner, d'oh. I saw some strong secondaries yesterday that I hadn't seen in a while!

...and yea, I'm continuing to plan a shed project for the spring... (gotta finish the inside projects first!)


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## lml999

lml999 said:


> Just got some Super Cedars, will try them tomorrow.
> 
> Stove is much happier with the clean liner, d'oh. I saw some strong secondaries yesterday that I hadn't seen in a while!
> 
> ...and yea, I'm continuing to plan a shed project for the spring... (gotta finish the inside projects first!)


Well, actually I got some fatwood fire starters.

OMG. Game changer. So much easier!


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## JamesGuido

too wet to burn??


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## stoveliker

You have to measure on a freshly split surface. The surface this was measured on is dried out but the inside will be much wetter.

Take a few splits inside, let them get up to room temperature in a day or so, then resplit them, and measure with the pins parallel to the grain, and press them in much much deeper.

Yes, if this way (in the video)  measures 16-18 pct, the wood will be too wet.


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## JamesGuido

stoveliker said:


> You have to measure on a freshly split surface. The surface this was measured on is dried out but the inside will be much wetter.
> 
> Take a few splits inside, let them get up to room temperature in a day or so, then resplit them, and measure with the pins parallel to the grain, and press them in much much deeper.
> 
> Yes, if this way (in the video)  measures 16-18 pct, the wood will be too wet.


thank you, will do.


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## one man's kindling

firefighterjake said:


> We are talking about wood here, right?
> 
> Me . . . I like my steak nice and juicy . . . but was raised by my mother cooking it until it was a dry piece of shoe leather.


Now, a martini...just pass that vermouth cork over the top of the full glass. That's plenty wet. [Sorry to bump an old thread, but I hope you'll forgive me.]


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## one man's kindling

one man's kindling said:


> Now, a martini...just pass that vermouth cork over the top of the full glass. That's plenty wet. [Sorry to bump an old thread, but I hope you'll forgive me.]


Again at the risk of bumping an old thread, dry wood solves a lot of problems.  A whole bunch  of problems.


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## koodjack

Hi I have ash at 24% moisture, is this good enough to burn?


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## NickW

It'll burn and produce heat, but it won't be great. If it's all you have, get it hot fast and don't be too fast turning the air down... Speaking from personal experience.


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## Ctwoodtick

koodjack said:


> Hi I have ash at 24% moisture, is this good enough to burn?


If you bring that wood indoors, after about a month it will be closer to 20 percent


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## begreen

koodjack said:


> Hi I have ash at 24% moisture, is this good enough to burn?


Marginal at best. It will burn, but if you can bring it indoors even for a week it will burn better.


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## begreen

For any standing dead wood, test it. Don't assume it's dry. 

I just had a large half of a big leaf maple cut down. It's been dead for 2 years. At the base it's about 24" in diameter. I split some of the wood from higher up that was around 12" thick and tested the wood for moisture content. Cold, it comes in at 47.4%!! I'm letting it warm up to room temp and will test again. This wood definitely will not be ready to burn for at least a year in spite of being dead.


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## Orerockon

bholler said:


> Is that on a fresh split face?  I can get oak to 17 or 18 in that time period if the weather is right


What's amusing to me is that I've been repeatedly told that oak takes 2-3 years to dry. Mine burns nice & hot (with the cat closed I run it about 1000F). That is with immediately splitting live wood and chucking in my barn (which has nice flow through air) for a summer.  I typically get my cutting done by June. It's dry as a popcorn fart by the fall and I bought a moisture meter to see what it says. By the time I need it (usually Oct.) the max. reading is...you guessed it... 18%. Inside fresh split dry is around 14%. So either a miracle happens to me every year or it only takes a summer to season.


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## bholler

Orerockon said:


> What's amusing to me is that I've been repeatedly told that oak takes 2-3 years to dry. Mine burns nice & hot (with the cat closed I run it about 1000F). That is with immediately splitting live wood and chucking in my barn (which has nice flow through air) for a summer.  I typically get my cutting done by June. It's dry as a popcorn fart by the fall and I bought a moisture meter to see what it says. By the time I need it (usually Oct.) the max. reading is...you guessed it... 18%. Inside fresh split dry is around 14%. So either a miracle happens to me every year or it only takes a summer to season.


I can typically get oak under 20% in a year as well


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## Dieselhead

Splitting small helps


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## begreen

There are a lot of variables for drying any wood based on the location in the tree, the time of year it was cut, the species, the location of the tree, etc.  The size of the splits is another variable. Then there's the drying setup after being split and stacked. A sunny location where the wind can freely blow through the loosely packed stacks will do much better than a tightly packed stack in shady spot with poor ventilation. Same for shed drying. Bonus points for a solar kiln.


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## Woodsplitter67

I have posted here that I season my wood in less thime then the posted 2 to 3 years. Much of my wood is split large.. Im good in 18 months.. I split it all mostly my march and by the following fall its ready.. 

There are some variables is seasoning..  some will take longer depending on how they do it and where its at..


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