# Keurig and K cups



## Huntindog1 (Jan 18, 2013)

For years we used any ole coffee maker and would try fancy expensive coffee.
My parents always used the more economical Folgers or Maxwell house coffee but I always thought their coffee was so much better than I ever made. They told me it was the fact they used a Bunn coffee maker. Well one year for Christmas several years ago they bought us one. And sure enough our coffee greatly improved.

This year for Christmas I got the wife the fancy fully programmable most expensive Keurig coffee maker.

So we tried and tried to make good coffee but it wasnt up to par with our Bunn. So I got to investigating the situation and found that the claim to fame with Bunns is they heat the water too 200 degrees and do a good job of making sure it stays at 200 degrees. Well the fully programmable Keurig would only let me turn the heat up to 192 max. So after playing around with the thing for a few days we took it back.

I then went and got the Bunn My Cafe that will do K cups , Coffee Pods / tea bags , Ground Coffee / loose tea and just hot water option. It was a little more expensive.

Well like magic we are back into business the coffee is tasting like it should and the machine even has a pulse feature that the Keurig didnt have to get even a more robust cup of coffee.


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## Delta-T (Jan 18, 2013)

well whaddayaknow. I'm not all that picky about my coffee....needs to be brownish but I have a friend who meticulously heats his water to 200 on the stove top (with thermometer) to make coffee. I will no longer chuckle at him when I see him do it. Science, how bizarre.


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## begreen (Jan 18, 2013)

I like Bunn equipment too. Our Capresso coffee maker heat the water to about 200F also. It does make a difference in what oils are released from the beans.

That said, I'm not a fan of the whole Keurig scheme. It adds a ton of extra packaging which ends up in the landfill. I'm not sure how much this adds to the cost per cup of coffee, but is it worth it?


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## Huntindog1 (Jan 18, 2013)

Its that oily texture that makes it coffee and not flavored water.


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## Jags (Jan 18, 2013)

If I drank a single cup of coffee, I would be hanging from the ceiling fans yelling YEEE HAAW.  Not a pretty sight.


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## pen (Jan 18, 2013)

When I was first married I tried several different coffee pots and many brands of coffee and couldn't get a decent cup to save my life. I was convinced it was my water but after bringing home other water from my parents (which makes good coffee at their home) and a local public artesian well, and still having bad results, I figured it was the coffee pot(s) reluctantly.

I was about to buy a percolator for the stove top when the wife surprised me with a Bunn and I love that thing although it is an energy hog keeping the water hot all the time. I'm not coffee snob, but I know what a decent cup should taste like, and I finally could get it at home.

Haven't been impressed with coffee from the k-cups myself that I've had at other people's homes and agree with BG about the waste and am often surprised at the price of those things when I see them in the store. Plus, for my purposes, it wouldn't be ideal to use to fill a thermos with to take to work.

I'll stick with the Bunn and just pay the electric bill for now, still cheaper than getting it from a gas station each morning.

I also have a French press and love the coffee from that, but it's not nearly as convenient as the Bunn and doesn't make enough for my thermos.

pen


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## begreen (Jan 18, 2013)

We use a french press and I do love the flavor of that coffee. Unfortunately my cholesterol levels do not, so I have switched to tea for my caffeine fix.


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## pen (Jan 18, 2013)

begreen said:


> We use a french press and I do love the flavor of that coffee. Unfortunately my cholesterol levels do not, so I have switched to tea for my caffeine fix.


 
Hearing this scares me. Haven't had my cholesterol tested since last century. If I have to worry about coffee, I'm screwed with the rest of my diet 

I have heard that alcohol is good for one's HDL, so I expect an outstanding report there 

pen


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## GAMMA RAY (Jan 18, 2013)

pen said:


> Hearing this scares me. Haven't had my cholesterol tested since last century. If I have to worry about coffee, I'm screwed with the rest of my diet
> 
> I have heard that alcohol is good for one's HDL, so I expect an outstanding report there
> 
> pen


 
My HDL which is the "good" cholesterol....was 125 the last I had it checked....My doc never saw an HDL that high before. I do partake in alcoholic beverages.... Maybe there is a connection.

I am not picky with my coffee...I take my sugar with a wee bit of coffee and cream.. 
As long as it gives me an incentive to approach my day and not kill anyone in the process, I really don't care how it tastes as long as I can get it down.


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## Delta-T (Jan 18, 2013)

GAMMA RAY said:


> I am not picky with my coffee...I take my sugar with a wee bit of coffee and cream..
> As long as it gives me an incentive to approach my day and not kill anyone in the process, I really don't care how it tastes as long as I can get it down.


word.


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## yooperdave (Jan 18, 2013)

I'd have to admit that the best coffee I've had has been from Bunn coffee makers.
Always sad to see them fail, its the gasket between the heated resevoir and the fill tank that eventually fails...But after a few attempts at repairing them, I finally found one cure that has lasted for over 3 years!!


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## Jags (Jan 18, 2013)

yooperdave said:


> ...But after a few attempts at repairing them, I finally found one cure that has lasted for over 3 years!!


 
Holding out for payment, or what??


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## stoveguy2esw (Jan 18, 2013)

i actually drink a pretty large amount of coffee at work, and some on weekends at home, if i were to get a machine for single cup i'd probably opt for the ones which you can use your own grounds and not buy the K cups which are outrageous in price per cup to me. now if i were buying a starbucks a couple times a day maybe it would make fiscal sense, but it doesnt make sense for me to buy a high dollar maker, then buy single serving cups which cost over a dollar a pop.


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## FanMan (Jan 18, 2013)

I've become convinced that the best coffee is made by boiling water on the stove and making the coffee with a Melitta cone filter.  More work, though.  Mostly I use a Cuisinart coffee maker/grinder with a timer that goes off just before I get up.  My wife prefers the Keurig for the convenience.  You can buy refillable K-cups if you don't want to keep throwing away the little plastic cups... lots less expensive, too.


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## PapaDave (Jan 18, 2013)

I got the K-Elite for Christmas 2011.
Wonderful machine, but the kups are expensive......to me.
I bought one of their filter cup things which lets you use your own grounds which makes it less costly, but it can be a pain.
During our last power outage (which lasted 3.5 days), I heated water on the woodstove and poured it through the old drip maker. Worked well, .......nobody else could understand how that worked.
I felt like a genius for a couple days.


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## jeff_t (Jan 19, 2013)

I have tried some refillable k cups, but really didn't care for them. As much sediment as a french press. Somebody said the Keurig branded ones are much better. I rarely use it at all, but my wife makes a cup every day that I'm gone. We buy them at Sam's, and it ends up about $.50/cup when buying a box of 80. We really like Newman's Own. 

I use one of these with a cheap, insulated carafe. I suppose it is a bit more time consuming, but I'm never in a hurry.


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## fishingpol (Jan 19, 2013)

We have a Keurig at work.  It is not as good as our little Mr. Coffee maker at home.  I like our electric percolator even more, but that does not get used as often.


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## Cross Cut Saw (Jan 19, 2013)

Huntindog1 said:


> For years we used any ole coffee maker and would try fancy expensive coffee.
> My parents always used the more economical Folgers or Maxwell house coffee but I always thought their coffee was so much better than I ever made. They told me it was the fact they used a Bunn coffee maker. Well one year for Christmas several years ago they bought us one. And sure enough our coffee greatly improved.
> 
> This year for Christmas I got the wife the fancy fully programmable most expensive Keurig coffee maker.
> ...


 
YES! FINALLY!
This is my area of expertise!
I have been a coffee roaster for over 18 years.

Not only are K cups an environmental disaster (millions upon millions of plastic cups thrown away annually), they are gross. They don't offer the proper ratio of coffee to water and don't allow the proper temperature to get a full extraction.

The average k cup is 9 grams of coffee which would only be suitable to brew about a 4 oz. cup of coffee!

The ratio you want is 2 grams of coffee for every ounce of water. Your average coffee scoop that comes with your home brewer is roughly 6 grams of coffee depending mostly on the roast level of the coffee you're using (darker coffee is less dense than lighter coffee). Your average 10 cup brewer is one liter (33 oz) so ideally you would use 11 scoops of your average scoops for a 20% extraction.

When choosing a brewer choose one that has a thermal carafe instead of one that sits on a burner. A brewer with a thermal carafe will have to properly heat the water prior to it going through the grounds, something that has a warming plate on the bottom will typically brew using water at a lower temperature that doesn't allow for proper extraction.

My favorite way to brew coffee is using a Chemex, a simple pour over brewer that brews an amazing cup of coffee!


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## yooperdave (Jan 19, 2013)

Jags said:


> Holding out for payment, or what??


 


Hey Jags-All I used was a high(er) temp silicone adhesive.  Like I say, it is stilll holding out well, and no leaks so far!  I can't remember exactly what brand, but if you need to know, just pm me and I'll find out for you (or anyone else).


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## billb3 (Jan 19, 2013)

I tried a Keureg B30 and it has to be the absolute worst Keureg machine made. Hot water isn't anywhere near hot enough to make a decent cup of coffee. The machines with the water tanks on the side are much better.
I've gone back to pouring nice hot boiling water slowly into the grounds over my cup through a melitta single cup filter holder during the week when I have just one cup of coffee in the morning and a little 4 cup  cuisinart brewer  on the weekend.
I'm no coffee aficionado  but a crappy cup of coffee is a crappy cup of coffee.

At least the grounds and paper can be recycled.


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## Huntindog1 (Jan 19, 2013)

My favorite use of my Bunn My Cafe is to use ground Dunkin Doughnuts Coffee in the module for ground coffee. 

The machine comes with a 2 table spoon scoop that written on the scoops handle says 2 tablespoons of coffee and 10 ounces of water for best results.

So for a 10 ounce cup of Dunkin Doughnuts coffee its about the best tasting cup I have ever tasted.

If you havent tried Dunkin Doughnut Coffee you should.

We use the Kcups for convience when conveince is needed. Rarely.


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## firebroad (Jan 19, 2013)

Wow, this is a GREAT thread, and has been an eye opener.  I did not know about the link between coffee and cholesterol.  Though  my levels are good, I did some checking, and it seems that paper filters remove most of the cafestrol, as they call it.  So Keurig, french press, permanent filters and such are not so good.
Although I must admit when I go to my niece's home, I enjoy those K-cup coffees, but it is not so economical for a coffee junkie like me (I drink decaf, I don't want to hear any grief about it).  I currently use a Krups, but I'm not so excited about the quality;  looks like I'll be investing in a Bunn next time.


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## KattWildz (Jan 19, 2013)

Hmm, love coffee here too, drip maker, espresso maker and French press. Just heard recently coffee is a NO NO when having high BP and cholesterol levels. Controversial there, also heard that coffee on the other hand is good for you, so what's up with that??
My recent cholesterol level was 148 Always had levels below 100...this all began when I moved to PA...just ask Hogwildz..he has introduced me to poor eating habits Time to go back to my Healthy eating habits and exercise (running) once again...


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## begreen (Jan 19, 2013)

Welcome Katt. The cholesterol producing component of coffee is in the terpenes that are in the coffee bean oils. I've read that you can reduce this effect by filtering the coffee with a Melita or Chemex filter. Sounds like you will need to wean Hog of the neanderthal diet and show him some good west coast foods. Best of luck with that! lol


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## KattWildz (Jan 19, 2013)

begreen said:


> Welcome Katt. The cholesterol producing component of coffee is in the terpenes that are in the coffee bean oils. I've read that you can reduce this effect by filtering the coffee with a Melita or Chemex filter. Sounds like you will need to wean Hog of the neanderthal diet and show him some good west coast foods. Best of luck with that! lol


Perfect, thx! the thought of giving up my coffee was not an option...where might I find those types of filters?? I suppose I can search online...


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## begreen (Jan 19, 2013)

Any decent sized grocery store will have a Melita system and filters. The Chemex pot is a little fancier and harder to find.
http://www.amazon.com/Melitta-Cone-Filter-Coffeemaker-1-Count/dp/B000MIT2OK
http://www.amazon.com/Chemex-Drip-C...qid=1358620782&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=chemex

But if you have a regular basic filter coffee maker like a Mr. Coffee, it's already being filtered.


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## Cross Cut Saw (Jan 19, 2013)

We sell the Chemex on our companies website:
http://www.wickedjoe.com/java/index.php?page=1&act=viewCat&catId=9
We've also got all sorts of pour over drip coffee makers similar to the Melita.

Oh, we also have THE BEST DAMN COFFEE IN NEW ENGLAND! 

I've worked for small to huge companies from Southern California to Maine and everywhere in between and I can tell you, Wicked Joe has a special product, not to mention it's all roasted by me!

www.wickedjoe.com

-Joe


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## begreen (Jan 19, 2013)

That's pretty cool Joe. Do you know Jim Stewart from out this way?


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## Cross Cut Saw (Jan 19, 2013)

begreen said:


> That's pretty cool Joe. Do you know Jim Stewart from out this way?


 
I know some folks down in Oregon, but I can't think of anyone in WA...


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## Huntindog1 (Jan 19, 2013)

What I have found is that it could be the sugar that people put in coffee thats responsible for cholesterol. As its the high levels of insulin that you trigger , thats responsible for higher cholesterol levels. People on low carb diets usaully have good levels of cholesterol .

Here is a cut and paste out of an article on the subject:

_*My intention here, though, is to remind folks that insulin is massively important in cholesterol homeostasis. Specifically, when insulin is elevated, cholesterol synthesis increases. Certainly other factors play in, but insulin is clearly recognized to play this role. In other words, this is not controversial.*_
_*As mentioned, carbohydrates are the main regulator of insulin levels. When we eat carbohydrates, our blood sugar increases, which causes a release of insulin in order to bring blood sugar back down to a safe level. Refined carbohydrates, like white bread or rice, cookies or soda, cause this elevation of blood sugar and insulin to happen very rapidly. Repeatedly spiking insulin levels (e.g. cereal for breakfast, soda all day and spaghetti every night) can lead to permanently elevated insulin levels, which is associated with almost every chronic illness known to man (heart disease, obesity, diabetes, cancer, metabolic syndrome, and I am willing to bet also erectile dysfunction). One reason chronically elevated insulin relates to these problems is its stimulatory effect on cholesterol synthesis.*_
_*In terms of a physiological mechanism, the connection between refined carbohydrates and elevated LDL cholesterol is incredibly simple compared to the effects of saturated fats on cholesterol. Next time an “authority” on health is scaring you about saturated fats, take a second and remind yourself of the incredible danger of your beloved carbohydrates.*_


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## begreen (Jan 19, 2013)

Cross Cut Saw said:


> I know some folks down in Oregon, but I can't think of anyone in WA...


 
Jim Stewart founded Steward Brothers Coffee here. He still is meeting with coffee growers including some down in Costa Rica. He's very supportive of the shade grown farmers. That's why I asked.


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## begreen (Jan 19, 2013)

Huntindog1 said:


> What I have found is that it could be the sugar that people put in coffee thats responsible for cholesterol. As its the high levels of insulin that you trigger , thats responsible for higher cholesterol levels. People on low carb diets usaully have good levels of cholesterol .
> 
> Here is a cut and paste out of an article on the subject:
> 
> ...


 
Not to dispute this, but we are all individuals. Our body chemistry and genetics play a huge role here. I always drank my coffee black, had a generally low sugar diet and still had high levels. The same was tested even after a few weeks of fasting. So far, eliminating coffee was the only thing that has dramatically dropped my cholesterol levels. Maybe it was a fluke? I'm up for my annual blood test next month so we'll see if the dramatic change is repeatable or not. But this is just my results. I have high cholesterol on both sides so I am genetically predisposed to this condition. Many are not.


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## Cross Cut Saw (Jan 20, 2013)

begreen said:


> Jim Stewart founded Stewart Brothers Coffee here. He still is meeting with coffee growers including some down in Costa Rica. He's very supportive of the shade grown farmers. That's why I asked.


 
Specialty Coffee has really changed the way a lot of coffee is grown. The farmers realize that to have a farm that produces quality coffee on an annual basis they have to maintain sustainable practices.

Programs like Rain Forest Alliance, Smithsonian Migratory Bird Center, and USDA Organic, while expensive to implement often offer a way for a farmer to make more money for his or her crop.

I took a trip to Nicaragua last January and while you could still see the mass produced lower end coffee grown in direct sunlight, all of the specialty coffee growers were using a canopy of shade.



The coffee in this picture is the smaller dark green shrub looking plant growing down the middle, you can see a worker picking coffee on the left, the coffee plants are pruned to be about 6' tall.


The view from a farm in the next town over.





And of course their wood fired ovens and stoves... The farm we stayed at was very big and had housing for over 100 workers, they had a large (smoky) cafeteria where they prepared meals for them. In the photo on the left they are about to put wood into an oven of sorts, they get it very hot and then press tortillas into the side, it works like a grill. The next one is what they cook massive pots of soup over, followed by of course their wood piles! I have a feeling it was all green .


	

		
			
		

		
	
 Me before my first cup of coffee...


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## begreen (Jan 20, 2013)

I've been following the Songbird Foundation project and the shade grown coffee movement for the last dozen years or so. A friend of mine worked with Danny O'Keefe on this project. Back then you would have to look hard to find shade grown, local farm coffee unless you knew someone that was importing beans directly from the farms. My hat is off to all the folks that have turned this into a national movement.

If you love coffee, there are some great articles in the archives of his blog:
http://www.virtualcoffee.com/may99/may_songbird.html


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## Hearth Mistress (Jan 20, 2013)

I can say I am a coffee addict. I received 11 lbs of various coffee beans from family/friends/co-workers for christmas. I am a french press girl. I do have a single cup melita filter but I only use that for the really dark roast stuff sometimes, seeing the oil smear on the press freaks me out. 
Everyone wanted to but my that kerig machine - ick. Never had a cup taste anywhere near what it should. Anything that claims to make coffee, tea and hit chocolate all the same way is suspect to me. My coffee is ground when I use it and not in a plastic or refillable cup. Just my preference, plenty if people like them,just not for me.

I have not had Wicked Joe but will look them up. I am totally spoiled by a coffee roaster right up the street, Homestead Coffee Roasters, so I don't have to go far. My cholesterol has been fine for years. My hubby and I eat/drink pretty much the same thing but he's been on meds fir a few years now. maybe there is something about genetics but god help us if I have to give up coffee, it will be ugly


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## northwinds (Jan 20, 2013)

Coffee fanatics are almost as bad, if not worse, than wood stove fanatics.  I was a professional coffee roaster for ten years and owned a roastery/coffeeshop similar to CrossCutSaw.  For people who think "it's just coffee," this article will provide entertainment. 

http://muddydogcoffee.wordpress.com...is-the-beginning-of-the-end-for-great-coffee/


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## begreen (Jan 20, 2013)

Coffee is an obsession out here in WA state. And I live with a lady that was weaned on coffee. Her family are serious coffee addicts.


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## Huntindog1 (Jan 20, 2013)

BeGreen, Your right everyone is genetically different. I saw the info about coffee and cholesterol. I didnt doubt what you said but only wanted to highlight the aspect of refined carbs.

*ABSTRACT*

ABSTRACT | REFERENCES​​*Objective.* —To determine the effect of filtered-coffee consumption on plasma lipoprotein cholesterol levels in healthy men.
*Design.* —Randomized controlled trial with an 8-week washout period followed by an 8-week intervention period during which men were randomly assigned to drink 720 mL/d of caffeinated coffee, 360 mL/d of caffeinated coffee, 720 mL/d of decaffeinated coffee, or no coffee.
*Setting.* —Outpatient clinical research center in a university medical center.
*Participants.* —One hundred healthy male volunteers.
*Outcome Measure.* —Changes in plasma lipoprotein cholesterol levels during the intervention period.
*Results.* —Men who consumed 720 mL of caffeinated coffee daily had mean increases in plasma levels of total cholesterol (0.24 mmol/L, _P_=.001), low-density lipoprotein cholesterol (0.17 mmol/L, _P_=.04), and high-density lipoprotein cholesterol (0.08 mmol/L, _P_=.03). No significant changes in these plasma lipoprotein levels occurred in the other groups. Compared with the group who drank no coffee, the group who drank 720 mL/d of caffeinated coffee had increases in plasma levels of total cholesterol (0.25 mmol/L, _P_ =.02), low-density lipoprotein cholesterol (0.15 mmol/L,_P_=.17), and high-density lipoprotein cholesterol (0.09 mmol/L, _P_=.12) after adjustment for changes in diet.
*Conclusion.* —Consumption of 720 mL/d of filtered, caffeinated coffee leads to a statistically significant increase in the plasma level of total cholesterol, which appears to be due to increases of both low-density lipoprotein and high-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels.(_JAMA_. 1992;267:811-815)


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## aussiedog3 (Jan 20, 2013)

My mother in law perks coffee for me when the family visits her for the weekend or for the holidays, etc.
Best coffee ever.  I love it.


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## Huntindog1 (Jan 20, 2013)

Here is another bit of info:
*Cafestol*
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

*Cafestol* is a diterpene molecule present in coffee.
A typical bean of _Coffea arabica_ contains about 0.6% cafestol by weight. Cafestol is present in highest quantity in unfiltered coffee drinks such asFrench press coffee or Turkish coffee/Greek coffee. In filtered coffee drinks such as drip brewed coffee, it is present in only negligible amounts.
*Studies have shown that regular consumption of boiled coffee increases serum cholesterol by 8% in men and 10% in women. For those drinking filter coffee, the effect was only significant for women.**[*1]
*[edit]*​*Clinical significance*

Cafestol has also shown anticarcinogenic properties in rats.[1] Cafestol may act as an agonist ligand for the nuclear receptor Farnesoid X receptor andPregnane X receptor, blocking cholesterol homeostasis.[2] Cafestol has also been implicated in inhibiting the progress of Parkinson's disease.[3]
*[edit]*​ 
*See also*

Kahweol
*[edit]**References*


^ _*a*_ _*b*_ National Toxicology Program (NTP): _Cafestol (CASRN 469-83-0) and Kahweol (CASRN 6894-43-5) - Review of Toxicological Literature._ (PDF)October 1999
*^* Ricketts ML, Boekschoten MV, Kreeft AJ, Hooiveld GJ, Moen CJ, Müller M, Frants RR, Kasanmoentalib S, Post SM, Princen HM, Porter JG, Katan MB, Hofker MH, Moore DD (July 2007). "The cholesterol-raising factor from coffee beans, cafestol, as an agonist ligand for the farnesoid and pregnane X receptors". _Mol. Endocrinol._ *21* (7): 1603–16. doi:10.1210/me.2007-0133. PMID 17456796.
*^* Trinh K, Andrews L, Krause J, Hanak T, Lee D, Gelb M, Pallanck L (April 2010). "Decaffeinated coffee and nicotine-free tobacco provide neuroprotection in Drosophila models of Parkinson's disease through an NRF2-dependent mechanism". _J. Neurosci._ *30* (16): 5525–32. doi:10.1523/JNEUROSCI.4777-09.2010. PMID 20410106. Lay summary – _New Scientist_.


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## begreen (Jan 20, 2013)

> BeGreen, Your right everyone is genetically different. I saw the info about coffee and cholesterol. I didnt doubt what you said but only wanted to highlight the aspect of refined carbs.
> 
> *ABSTRACT*
> 
> ABSTRACT | REFERENCES​


 

Thanks for the links HD. I hadn't seen that study. Good point, I try to keep refined carbs to a minimum. The articles I've read are more recent. Klag (Johns Hopkins) did the study I was thinking of, but Baylor had a study too.

"Cafestol, a diterpene present in unfiltered coffee brews such as Scandinavian boiled, Turkish, and cafetière coffee, is the most potent cholesterol-elevating compound known in the human diet."

http://mend.endojournals.org/content/21/7/1603

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/06/070614162223.htm

Wish it didn't taste so darn good!


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## KattWildz (Jan 21, 2013)

Cross Cut Saw said:


> We sell the Chemex on our companies website:
> http://www.wickedjoe.com/java/index.php?page=1&act=viewCat&catId=9
> We've also got all sorts of pour over drip coffee makers similar to the Melita.
> 
> ...


I'll check it out, thank you


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## Jags (Jan 21, 2013)

KattWildz said:


> I'll check it out, thank you


 
Keep that Hogz dude off that jet fuel.  Ya never know what he will get into.


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## Hearth Mistress (Jan 21, 2013)

I have a set of "Office Gods" and Caffeina is included as the Goddess of Coffee. i work from home now but this was a conversation piece for sure....http://www.briggssculpture.com/office-gods.html


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## KattWildz (Jan 26, 2013)

Jags said:


> Keep that Hogz dude off that jet fuel. Ya never know what he will get into.


Aw, he doesn't touch the stuff, good thing...he's already a handful! Can't imagine him bouncing off the walls, bing bing bing! That's my job, lol
One of US is enough within these 4 walls


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## stoveguy2esw (Jan 26, 2013)

KattWildz said:


> Aw, he doesn't touch the stuff, good thing...he's already a handful! Can't imagine him bouncing off the walls, bing bing bing! That's my job, lol
> One of US is enough within these 4 walls


 
i wish you luck, hog does seem like he'd be a handful. delighted to "meet you" BTW, welcome to the hearth community. i enjoy chatting with hog, he's quite an interesting dude.


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## KattWildz (Jan 26, 2013)

stoveguy2esw said:


> i wish you luck, hog does seem like he'd be a handful. delighted to "meet you" BTW, welcome to the hearth community. i enjoy chatting with hog, he's quite an interesting dude.


Haha! Yes he is, but a good handful anyway...thanks for the Welcome...a warm cozy place to be I see.


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## stoveguy2esw (Jan 26, 2013)

KattWildz said:


> Haha! Yes he is, but a good handful anyway...thanks for the Welcome...a warm cozy place to be I see.


 

seems then that my buddy hog is indeed "a lucky man"  "ugg-ugg"


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