# Looking for low-cost, hi-style wood stove



## raderator (Dec 3, 2010)

I've always liked modern Scandinavian wood stoves but they cost a few grand and are not generally available in small-town USA.

I like the Englander 17-VL, dirt cheap at $384 (after tax credit) and will probably go with that. Saw it in person at Home Depot. Not as slick as real European design but acceptable. I saw a Chilean stove at Lowe's that was interesting called Amesti. They have this model for $549 (don't know if it's eligible for tax credit). 

http://www.amesti.cl/_nordic_380.html 

This version looks better tho.

http://www.amesti.cl/_scantek_380.html

At first I thought it was a Bosca (also Chilean) but apparently not. I like the Bosca Limit 450.

http://www.autorain.com/itemdisplay.php?sku=10110064

The 17-VL seems unique for a cheap stove in that the firebox is wide and tall for its depth and will give you a big view with a little fire, which seems to be the Euro trend.


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## corey21 (Dec 3, 2010)

raderator said:
			
		

> I've always liked modern Scandinavian wood stoves but they cost a few grand and are not generally available in small-town USA.
> 
> I like the Englander 17-VL, dirt cheap at $384 (after tax credit) and will probably go with that. Saw it in person at Home Depot. Not as slick as real European design but acceptable. I saw a Chilean stove at Lowe's that was interesting called Amesti. They have this model for $549 (don't know if it's eligible for tax credit).
> 
> ...


If had those stoves to pick from i would go with the Englander 17 VL,


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## Renovation (Dec 4, 2010)

corey21 said:
			
		

> If had those stoves to pick from i would go with the Englander 17 VL,



+1  That is the only one of those stoves that I've seen reviewed here, and it is well-liked.


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## 48rob (Dec 4, 2010)

Rad,

 I bought a 17, and really like it!

Had I bought one of the others you linked too, I'm sure I would have liked them as well, but what I like most is the price!
For what I paid, after the tax credit, I'm thinking I got about the best deal there is to be had out there.

My choice wasn't just based on price.
I looked at stoves with a solid door, and those with a window.
I really enjoy looking through it at the fire.
My stove is just 5' from my desk, and being able to feel the heat, AND see the fire is really nice.

The rounded edges on the fancier stoves are nice!.
Mine is in my shop, so looks weren't a high priority, though that said, the 17 isn't bad looking...
I have no idea if a more expensive stove "heats" better or not, but mine is doing a fine job of keeping me warm.

Rob


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## precaud (Dec 4, 2010)

Never seen the Amesti before. They're interesting because they are N/S burners, most stoves in this size range aren't. I'd like to see one.


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## precaud (Dec 4, 2010)

Interesting note in the Amesti instruction manual:
- - - - -
What kind and amount of firewood should be used?
Use firewood from eucalyptus, fruit, and other alien invasive trees. Avoid burning
indigenous trees, since harvesting can produce irreparable ecological damage. Avoid
pine due to its high sap content; sap can accumulate in the main flue and cause a fire
hazard.
- - - - -

That's a new twist. Keep warm, and kill the aliens.


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## jeromehdmc (Dec 4, 2010)

Purely on looks I think the Nordic wins out because of the curved sides but I do like the larger glass on the Scantek. I am a fan of the European design, have a Scan A 10, and I think it's great an American company finally figured out others out here like it too. The Englander is a great little stove and the company has a good reputation. One thing to keep in mind is the firebox size. All the European style stoves have a small firebox. I bought my stove to use as a part time burner, on weekends and after work. It keeps the house reasonably warm without any help from the furnace. I think you have a tough decision they are all pretty nice stoves.


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## Fsappo (Dec 4, 2010)

precaud said:
			
		

> Interesting note in the Amesti instruction manual:
> - - - - -
> What kind and amount of firewood should be used?
> Use firewood from eucalyptus, fruit, and other alien invasive trees. Avoid burning
> ...



Thats very interesting.  Dont let the republicans catch wind of that though.


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## NH_Wood (Dec 4, 2010)

Franks said:
			
		

> precaud said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Worry more about the dems on that one......


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## branchburner (Dec 4, 2010)

I'm afraid the debate over whether or not to burn pine will never be resolved in this highly charged climate of partisan bickering. Neither Rebumbl-icans nor Demo-craps really care about the issue - we must turn to the Ever-Green Party for real progress.


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## precaud (Dec 4, 2010)

Stepping aside from the political party quagmires, and the nonsense about burning pine... I thought it was interesting in that, it shows some effort on the part of the manufacturers toward consistency, from national priorities down to end use. I can't say the same about ours here.

A few months back I wrote to my esteemed US senator, expressing my dismay that he was not a co-sponsor of legislation to deal with the bark beetle situation out west. And I explained to him the sad state of one branch of gov't not knowing what the other is doing and working at cross purposes as a result. In this case, we have:
a) tax refunds being given to encourage us to buy and use solid-fuel appliances
b) many thousands of acres of beetle-kill-covered federal property, which is a fire hazard
c) but it is illegal to go onto them to gather it for firewood
d) instead, another federal agency sells fuelwood permits to remote places with poor access and with little fuelwood left to gather.

It would be a trivial matter to organize a program that harmonized both priorities, served the people's interests, and let people participate in solving a significant problem.

But it ain't gonna happen.


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## raderator (Dec 4, 2010)

precaud said:
			
		

> Never seen the Amesti before. They're interesting because they are N/S burners, most stoves in this size range aren't. I'd like to see one.



What does N/S burner mean? (noob)

One thing I noticed about the Amesti is the weird handle. They look nice, kind of a curved brass bar, but they seem to be used like a wrench and are not permanently attached. That seems pretty inconvenient. All you normally see is an ugly nut end.

Also, we have a flue which was installed when the house was built 30 years ago. It's 8" and seems to be double-walled and runs thru the center of our two-story house so there would be about 24' in total rise. I wonder if we could get away with using 8" instead 0f 6" cuz of that.


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## raderator (Dec 4, 2010)

precaud said:
			
		

> Never seen the Amesti before. They're interesting because they are N/S burners, most stoves in this size range aren't. I'd like to see one.



What does N/S burner mean? (noob)

One thing I noticed about the Amesti is the weird handle. They look nice, kind of a curved brass bar, but they seem to be used like a wrench and are not permanently attached. That seems pretty inconvenient. All you normally see is an ugly nut end.

Also, we have a flue which was installed when the house was built 30 years ago. It's 8" and seems to be double-walled and runs thru the center of our two-story house so there would be about 24' in total rise. I wonder if we could get away with using 8" instead 0f 6" cuz of that.


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## raderator (Dec 4, 2010)

precaud said:
			
		

> Never seen the Amesti before. They're interesting because they are N/S burners, most stoves in this size range aren't. I'd like to see one.



What does N/S burner mean? (noob)

One thing I noticed about the Amesti is the weird handle. They look nice, kind of a curved brass bar, but they seem to be used like a wrench and are not permanently attached. That seems pretty inconvenient. All you normally see is an ugly nut end.

Also, we have a flue which was installed when the house was built 30 years ago. It's 8" and seems to be double-walled and runs thru the center of our two-story house so there would be about 24' in total rise. I wonder if we could get away with using 8" instead 0f 6" cuz of that. When we recently had new shingles put on, they replaced the chimney cap with a very nice $250 one.


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## raderator (Dec 4, 2010)

Oops. Posts are slow to show up and there is no delete.


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## precaud (Dec 4, 2010)

raderator said:
			
		

> What does N/S burner mean?



North/South. It means the firebox is deeper than wide. It affects the way wood is loaded (no logs rolling out) and burns (more-or-less end-to-end). N/S stoves are also less likely to spill smoke when the door is opened while burning.



> One thing I noticed about the Amesti is the weird handle. They look nice, kind of a curved brass bar, but they seem to be used like a wrench and are not permanently attached. That seems pretty inconvenient. All you normally see is an ugly nut end.



That's pretty common for stoves made outside the US. I have a stove like that - doesn't bother me at all.



> Also, we have a flue which was installed when the house was built 30 years ago. It's 8" and seems to be double-walled and runs thru the center of our two-story house so there would be about 24' in total rise. I wonder if we could get away with using 8" instead 0f 6" cuz of that. When we recently had new shingles put on, they replaced the chimney cap with a very nice $250 one.



Whether or not that passes inspection for a new install depends on local codes. I think you'll have to ask about it.


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## jeromehdmc (Dec 4, 2010)

My stove has a 6" flue and the chimney pipe is 8". I just put a 6 to 8 increaser in at ceiling height. I haven't had any draft problems.


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## raderator (Dec 4, 2010)

Thanks to both. I guess deeper would be more practical. Great to hear about the 8" pipe too. The Amesti at Lowe's for $549 is kinda growing on me.







I wonder if the handle can be permanently attached. I never did figure it out. It looks like it's designed to shed heat, kind of a brass paper-clip shape.

Tho the Amesti Rondo is really more my style. Good luck finding one. Prolly cost more.






Silver flues look better than black. I can find nothing about a tax credit for these.


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## EatenByLimestone (Dec 4, 2010)

That corner stove is a sweet idea.  While I'm not real big on euro style stoves I think that could grow on me.  

http://www.amesti.cl/_corner.html


Matt


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## precaud (Dec 4, 2010)

Odd that Lowes is selling them in-store but has nothing online about them. Where do you live?

The only two models I see on the EPA-approved stoves list are the Rondo 450 and Nordic 380. The Rondo 450 is not a N/S stove... the N380 is.

I'd also suggest you take a good look inside the firebox. That a) their EPA numbers are on the high side, b) they specifically warn against burning pine, c) the "air injector" system they tout without giving any details, and d) in their manual or on their website they give zero information about the internal construction, all make me a bit suspicious about their combustion system.

Also, keep in mind, these are fully-jacketed stoves, so the only radiant heat you'll get is from the front.


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## raderator (Dec 4, 2010)

precaud said:
			
		

> Odd that Lowes is selling them in-store but has nothing online about them. Where do you live?
> 
> The only two models I see on the EPA-approved stoves list are the Rondo 450 and Nordic 380. The Rondo 450 is not a N/S stove... the N380 is.
> 
> ...



I'm in upstate NY. The one at Lowe's says N380 on it (Nordic 380 I presume). I had the pic for the 350 (above) but corrected it. Looks better. Does that mean it qualifies for the tax credit?


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## precaud (Dec 4, 2010)

Yes, it qualifies. Lowes must be test-marketing it up there.

On the Amesti home page, click on "Ecological Technology" and you'll see "AMESTI COMBUSTION CHAMBER". Mouse over the stove cutaway, and right click on it to zoom in to see some of the details. It looks like the secondary system is welded-in channels along the sides. That would explain the high-ish EPA numbers. And not repairable by you if it cracks/warps, unless you're a welder.

There is some unknown territory here. Still, it's an intriguing stove at $549. Wish I could examine one in person.


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## raderator (Dec 5, 2010)

I'm gong to look at it again tomorrow before football. I'll take some pics of the details. Yes, I'm a manly man who's into design 

Edit: Here's one that has seen some wear and tear LOL

http://www.adoos.cl/pics/10587361


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## precaud (Dec 5, 2010)

Cool. Most of the action in a firebox is in the top section, where the baffling and air outlets are. Take some pics up there. Work the control, make sure it's smooth. They are going about some things in unconventional ways in this stove. It's fun to go where noone has gone before, but you don't want to get stuck with a lemon.


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## raderator (Dec 5, 2010)

precaud said:
			
		

> Also, keep in mind, these are fully-jacketed stoves, so the only radiant heat you'll get is from the front.



Is that different from the Englander? This one would seem to give better convection thru the outer body without a fan because of the large vents on the top corners. Just guessing.


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## precaud (Dec 5, 2010)

No, they're both jacketed on sides and top. But the 17 looks to have a larger frontal area. Don't know about you, but I like stoves that have strong radiation to the front.


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## raderator (Dec 5, 2010)

Finally reading then manual. The handle is supposed to stay off.  Probably to discourage you from opening the door. Well, it's a crap-shoot. Parts would have to come from Chile. Englander is just a couple of states away. But at these prices, it's basically disposable. But that one in my previous post looks like it lasted a while.

http://www.adoos.cl/pics/10587361

What about using glass on the floor? We have wood floors.

Edit: This high-end South African store carries them.

http://www.fireandgas.co.za/htm/amesti.html


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## precaud (Dec 5, 2010)

There aren't really any parts you'd have to import. Glass and firebrick are generic. Anything welded in place isn't a replaceable part. From what I've seen so far, the Englander 17 is probably a more bullet-proof design. Stainless secondary tubes are replaceable by you. Parts are reasonable and readily available, if needed. Warranty service is superb, especially for Hearth.com participants.    There's really no risk going that route.

I don't know about the glass-on-floor question, someone else will have to weigh in on that.


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## VCBurner (Dec 5, 2010)

I'm a big fan of the European stoves.  I had a Surdiac that produced an amazing amount of heat.  I like the look of the Nordic you mentioned, though I had never seen it before.  But a lot can be said about buying a USA produced stove with a good name such as Englander. Good luck!


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## raderator (Dec 5, 2010)

Chile is one of my favorite countries. I'm a big fan of Jose Pinera, the guy who, more than anyone, resurrected their economy and society. I think the US is going to have to go through a similar process, eventually.

Every American should watch this hour-long vid. Use VLC and crop to 16:9 so it will be full-screen. Sit back and have a cup of tea.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8215036437587175272#


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## raderator (Dec 5, 2010)

Went back to Lowe's. They had four. Yes, 16" logs will fit N/S. Looked very well made. Nothing crooked. Tidy, unobtrusive welds. Glass is 10"x10". Handle seemed to work fine. I guess it's safer for kids.


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## begreen (Dec 5, 2010)

Thanks for posting the detail shots. It is a decent price for a stove. In this price range there aren't a lot of options and they appear to have packed a lot into the stove. Normally convective side panels and ash pan are extras. Caveats might be thinner metal, hard to get replacement parts if something like the baffle warps, and non-standard firebrick size (metric?). I'm not overly fond of the door gasket arrangement, but in this price range it could be a decent stove. We won't know until we have a few folks burning in them here for a few years.


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## precaud (Dec 5, 2010)

Thanks for the pics. Glad to hear your impressions were favorable. Some thoughts:

The firebricks are the old-style, heavy refractory type - not the lightweight insulating type.

That's a LOT of secondary air holes up there - three banks on the baffle, and one on each side.

According to the manual, the secondary baffle is removable, which also means it's replaceable. Is it stainless steel, or the same as the rest of the stove? Based on the price point, I'm guessing it's not stainless. If it's not, you can pretty much count on having to replace it at some point.

Engineering-wise, I'd give the nod to the Englander. But it's still an intriguing stove. It's good to see another N/S burner at this price point.


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## raderator (Dec 5, 2010)

When we get our Pinochet, one of the first things he should do is impose the metric system.


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## precaud (Dec 5, 2010)

BG, the ash pan is only that in name - you shovel ashes out and put them into the ash pan! Might as well put them right into a bucket...


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## begreen (Dec 5, 2010)

Ha, that's funny. I was wondering where the ash chute was. Maybe it's actually a bun warmer?


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## precaud (Dec 5, 2010)

I can't remember the actual percentages at the moment, but not many American buns would fit in there...   :lol:


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## begreen (Dec 5, 2010)

Metric buns? Empanadas!


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## precaud (Dec 5, 2010)

Now we're talkin' !


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## precaud (Dec 5, 2010)

It's hard to decipher all this from photos, but those side panels also look alot like the low-density variety of Skamol vermiculite (Skamolex?) that I got samples of last year. If they are, that would be a good thing. One way to tell would be by the thickness. If it's 1" thick, it probably is Skamolex. If it's 1.25", then it's likely firebrick.


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## precaud (Dec 5, 2010)

It looks like Lowes is marketing these in Canada, they're in the 2010 buyers guide:
http://www.lowes.ca/buying_guides/..pdf2010 Seasonal Heaters  Buyers Guide.pdf

The stove is sold with a 5-year warranty. I wonder who handles warranty claims? That probably explains why they are test marketing them up north.


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## raderator (Dec 5, 2010)

The tray is bigger than it looks in that pic. I suppose it would look nicer than an ash bucket. I tend to spill ashes on the way to the bucket. You probably could cook in it. One of the reasons I'm buying this is for the Apocalypse.


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## precaud (Dec 5, 2010)

Sounds great. Keep us posted as things progress.


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## Hiram Maxim (Dec 5, 2010)

The Stepped baffle with integral secondary square burn tubes is interesting!

I would imagine it creates some nice turbulence for a good hot air/smoke mixture?

The bricks make the firebox look really tall.....


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## tickbitty (Dec 5, 2010)

Looks like it is indeed on the EPA list.  Emissions a bit higher than the 17 but nothing out of hand.  What is the firebox size on each of these?


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## precaud (Dec 5, 2010)

Hiram Maxim said:
			
		

> The Stepped baffle with integral secondary square burn tubes is interesting!


Actually, that was one of the first secondary techniques used. Morso, Jotul, probably others used it early on, with stainless material.



> I would imagine it creates some nice turbulence for a good hot air/smoke mixture?


Unfortunately just the opposite. It creates very tidy layering and little turbulence, much less than burn tubes under a baffle do.


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## raderator (Dec 5, 2010)

Weight seems to be 176lbs vs 230lbs for the 17-VL. The Amesti site doesn't seem to list it but some import site says 80kg. I'd be lugging this home and wrestling it into place myself, so weight matters.

Other diffs:

*Cast iron door on the 17-VL 

*17-VL door just butt-closes but has a very big gasket. The window gasket is somewhat visible which mars the slick looks a bit. The Amesti gaskets are not very visible.

*17-VL  seems more designed for a fan. The Amesti has heat shields all over including the back to allow for convection. A lot of rural people in Chile probably don't have electricity. And there would be none in the Apocalypse.

*17-VL has a cold air input on the bottom, which obstructs the wood bin a bit. I suppose you could supply outside air to any stove by just putting a vent in the floor.

I'm not sure if the Amesti has more overall wood capacity. You could probably pile up nearly as much in the 17-VL  but it would tend to fall out if you opened the door. The Amesti seems far more kid-safe, especially with the removable door handle (cannot be left on). I don't have kids tho. The 17-VL would definitely give you a nice, big fire view with its bigger window and shallow depth without having a big fire. The styling of the 17-VL is more neutral and would probably go better with traditional architecture. Size-wise, the 17-VL is approx 2" wider, 1" taller and 7.5" less deep.

Conclusion:

17-VL, great designer-type stove on the cheap.

Amesti N380, style in a practical, kid-safe stove.


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## precaud (Dec 5, 2010)

tickbitty said:
			
		

> Emissions a bit higher than the 17 but nothing out of hand.



tick, if the limit gets lowered to 5gm/hr as is being discussed, this stove would get bumped off the list. The secondary air arrangement they're using is an example of brute force vs careful elegant engineering.



> What is the firebox size on each of these?


rader will have to give us that when he gets it home.


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## precaud (Dec 5, 2010)

raderator said:
			
		

> Weight seems to be 176lbs



That leads me to think, that is either the weight without the bricks, or else the bricks are Skamolex and not the heavy refractory type.



> *Cast iron door on the 17-VL


Not necessarily a plus. Good doors can be made from steel - the bracing is important.



> *A lot of rural people in Chile probably don't have electricity. And there would be none in the Apocalypse.


Gosh, northeast folks prepping for the Apocolypse... southern folks waiting for the end times... sounds pretty dour. What's goin' on out there? You guys need to come out west where the air is clean and the vistas are wide and clear... and there's plenty of sun to make electricity (and heat) from.

On the other hand, I very much like the lower population density we have... invitation withdrawn.  :lol:


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## raderator (Dec 5, 2010)

I've been an atheist and a fascist for decades. I'm hoping for a revolution/civil war/military coup. Looking good! I bought silver at $13


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## Renovation (Dec 5, 2010)

I'm not sure from the blurry photo, but is efficiency rated at around 65%?  Is this lower than the minimum efficiency for the tax credit?

Kudos for ignoring tantalizing side-tracks that would de-railed other forums.  I am impressed.


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## raderator (Dec 5, 2010)

[quote author="RenovationGeorge" date="1291603145"]I'm not sure from the blurry photo, but is efficiency rated at around 65%?  Is this lower than the minimum efficiency for the tax credit?



> Good question. Here's an example sticker.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## precaud (Dec 6, 2010)

RenovationGeorge said:
			
		

> I'm not sure from the blurry photo, but is efficiency rated at around 65%?  Is this lower than the minimum efficiency for the tax credit?



The efficiency rating system used for the tax credit qualification is different than the one used on the certificates. Both are derived from the same set of test data, but calculated differently.


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## precaud (Dec 6, 2010)

I brought your photo of the inside into a photo editor, and zoomed in to see the lining bricks better. I'm pretty sure it is Skamolex inside. The edges are way too clean to be ordinary firebrick.


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## Renovation (Dec 6, 2010)

precaud said:
			
		

> RenovationGeorge said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Cool, I wanted to make sure he qualified.


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## raderator (Dec 6, 2010)

I went back and looked at them both. They both had the same tag. It's a generic tag for ALL non-catalytic stoves and is not a test of that stove. Says so in the fine print.

*The 17-VL  has completely different bricks. Only the ones on the floor look like real bricks. The others are much wider (the sides are a single brick) and are lighter than pine. The back center of the stove is metal and corresponds to where the fan mounts.

*The Amesti has what look like real bricks. I jiggled them. They seem about as dense as wood. The floor is metal.

*I measured the interiors. The Amesti is 13.7% bigger. 

*The 17-VL has two stainless steel pipes. The Amesti has three rows of holes in a sloping steel roof. The roof is 12" high at the front and 10" high at the back. The 17-VL's roof is flat.

*The latch and hinges on the 17-VL are much, much more robust, obviously, being a cast iron door. The door is still pretty easy to swing compared to other stoves. The gasket is awe inspiring.

*The 17-VL is crying out for a fan. That $100 should be added to your budget.

*I tilted them both. They seem about equally heavy. If anything the, Amesti might be heavier. It would be great if the 17-VL came with the door off to make it easier to lift. I'm going to ask them about that. It has hinge pins that should come up.

*To get the tax credit, you need the manufacturer's certificate listing the stove. Amesti doesn't seem to have one. The 17-VL does:

http://www.englandsstoveworks.com/manuals/2009_TaxCreditCertificate.pdf


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## precaud (Dec 6, 2010)

rader, I've given you some details to chew on, now I'll give my advice and then step aside. As intriguing as it is, and despite being a N/S burner, I think it will be an underperformer, and will be problematical to own down the road. That secondary air system is a poorly-engineered kludge. I'd pass on the Amesti.


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## raderator (Dec 6, 2010)

precaud said:
			
		

> rader, I've given you some details to chew on, now I'll give my advice and then step aside. As intriguing as it is, and despite being a N/S burner, I think it will be an underperformer, and will be problematical to own down the road. That secondary air system is a poorly-engineered kludge. I'd pass on the Amesti.



And no tax credit. I don't have kids so the fixed handle on the 17 and potential rolling logs would be no big probs. Our house is a Cape Cod (tho I have delusions of building an ultra-contemporary some day) so the styling of the 17 would fit better. If I can get the door off the 17, that will be the clincher (had one hernia already).

Both are impressive designs. I LURV design (can you tell?) so it was fun studying them.


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## precaud (Dec 6, 2010)

Good on you for delving into the details. Makes for fewer (negative) surprises down the road.

All the cast doors I've seen lift straight up off the hinges.


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## raderator (Dec 6, 2010)

precaud said:
			
		

> All the cast doors I've seen lift straight up off the hinges.



Doh! Never tried it.

When you order a 17 from the factory, they tell you that you have to inspect it for damage when you pick it up at the freight location. I guess that would be a good time to separate the door from the stove to make it lighter. I have to load it into a Suzuki SX4 hatchback . I removed the back seats which, coincidentally, weigh exactly as much as my golden retriever, 90lbs. It makes a pretty good hauler with a flat floor.


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## 48rob (Dec 6, 2010)

The door on my 17 does not lift straight off.
It has two hinge pins.
That said, a straight blade screwdriver will pop them right out, which of course will allow the door to be removed.
Should be handy for changing the door gasket too...

The 17 has about a half inch between the bottom plate of the stove and the floor, perfect for a two wheel cart, which is what I used to move mine into the shop.
Was very easy to manouver.

Rob


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## precaud (Dec 7, 2010)

That's good input, rob.

rader, a couple here have bought their 17's from these guys:
http://www.overstockstoves.com/50tvl17--epa-certified-noncatalytic-wood-stove--1250171200.html

They were offering free shipping, don't know if that deal is still on or not. Unless you live in the deep boonies, they should bring it to your driveway with a liftgate truck.


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## 48rob (Dec 7, 2010)

> They were offering free shipping, don’t know if that deal is still on or not. Unless you live in the deep boonies, they should bring it to your driveway with a liftgate truck.



For me at least, in Illinois, the "free" shipping was by common carrier to the local terminal.
The guys in the terminal helped me load it in my truck.

Overstock stoves may have had other options, such as to your door delivery, but it was not offered as part of the "free" shipping.

Rob


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## FyreBug (Dec 7, 2010)

I had a chance to play with the Amesti stove at Lowe's Canada. Their both cute unit and priced right. But my guess is they are more for someone who is going after a certain look and likely an occasional user. 

They are very light, I could almost pick it up by myself and the burn box is fairly small. If all you want is to light a log once in a while these will likely do the trick. If you want some serious heat with a unit that lasts a long time you may want to look at something else.

If European look is your thing, maybe save a little longer for a Jotul, Scan or Morso. They are well built and will last a long time.

PS. In Canada we've had the metric system since the 70's and I still cant wrap my head around it!


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## raderator (Dec 7, 2010)

I see in Canada they're also selling the Rondo 450. Ideal for a small, modern house or cabin. Looks just like the expensive Euros.

http://tinyurl.com/2ejs4v9

R450 - 900 sq. ft. EPA Wood Stove

■ EPA certified
■ Airwash glass system
■ Burns up to 14 in. logs
■ Marble top included
■ Convenient log compartment
■ Made in Chile
■ Limited 5 Year Warranty







Too bad they don't have the 490.


----------



## raderator (Dec 7, 2010)

At least with the 17, I'll have a window that big.


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## precaud (Dec 8, 2010)

Here's a video with an Amesti guy showing off their wares at some sort of Expo in 2009:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yB2gR92DwNM

About 1 minute in, you can clearly see how thin the doors are - a single layer of sheet steel as a door for their high-end corner stove. It isn't going to take much time for those doors, and the secondary air systems, to warp and leak.

It's pretty clear that they are doing everything they can to make these stoves look modern and high-tech while taking as much of the cost out as they can, anywhere they possibly can. I wish them all the best, but these stoves are going to be a hard sell in this country.


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## raderator (Dec 8, 2010)

I wouldn't be heating the house with it except during an emergency. I'm sure I'll be going with the 17 anyway. Very impressive door on that thing.

Our cape code roof is way too steep for an amateur to access so I'm thinking of getting this flue cleaner:

http://www.amazon.com/Gardus-RCH-20...dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

Not sure how they work. I assume the simplest thing would be to remove the stove pipe and maybe set a trash can on the stove with a couple of wood blocks? We have two stories and a small attic.


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## precaud (Dec 8, 2010)

raderator said:
			
		

> I wouldn't be heating the house with it except during an emergency.



And here I thought you were going to be a "real" wood burner... apocalypse now and all that.  ;-)


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## raderator (Dec 8, 2010)

precaud said:
			
		

> raderator said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hopefully, our Pinochet will restore order quickly. 

I don't have access to a whole lot of wood. We'll probably end up burning our junk furniture, a blessing in disguise.

I really don't think the Amesti are crap. They've been handling probably some pretty rough conditions in Chile for 20 yrs. This is not a new design.


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## precaud (Dec 8, 2010)

raderator said:
			
		

> I really don't think the Amesti are crap. They've been handling probably some pretty rough conditions in Chile for 20 yrs.



rader, I'm not saying they're "crap", only that they are primarily built to be viable in the Chile market. If I have a "mission" on this board, it's to encourage people to look under the hood and learn what makes a stove a good performer or not, a good investment or not. There are lots of pretty stoves out there to choose from. May as well choose one that performs better and requires minimal ongoing maintenance which can be done by the end user.


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## raderator (Dec 8, 2010)

I was just thinking. Lots of people around here have heavily wooded acreage. If it were me, in the apocalypse, I'd be willing to trade a dead tree I didn't need for a silver dollar.


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## raderator (Dec 9, 2010)

OK, went up into the attic. The unused flue, which was installed when the house was built 30 yrs ago, is a Metalbestos SS Class A. Seems well secured. I can see down into the rising part. The sticker says 2" minimum to combustibles. The only place it doesn't comply is where it goes thru the roof decking, which it touches on two sides. Not sure who's fault that is. We recently had new shingles put on and a fancy steel chimney. I guess I'd have to take a jigsaw and widen the square opening or make it round on those two sides. I think I'll call the roofing guy since he should have fixed that or at least centered it. Hole may be too small even if centered tho. There's also a plate screwed to the side with a couple of small bolts sticking out. No idea what that is.

It goes 9' up, 3.5' at a 45 degree angle, then up 2' to the roof deck. Pipe diameter is 8" inside, 10" outside. Chimney is 3 or 4 feet high, near the ridge. Seems to be a proper box in the ceiling.

Should I post this as a separate thread?


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## raderator (Dec 10, 2010)

Well, now the Amesti at Lowe's is $499, down another $50. Considering I'll probably need the fan with the 17-VL, that would be another $100 + shipping. So the total cost for the stoves would be:

17-VL ($549 + $112.01 fan shipped + $90.41 for pipes shipped)  x 0.7 tax credit = $526.00

Amesti ($499 x 1.0815 tax) + $90.41 for pipes shipped = $630.08

Too bad the Amesti is not on their web site. I could get an extra 5% cash back on my credit card. I like the looks better, it doesn't need a fan in the apocalypse and it's N/S. Not worth $104.08 tho. But I wouldn't have to mess with my taxes.


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## 48rob (Dec 11, 2010)

Rad,

 I've been using a 17 for a few weeks now, kinda soon to offer any proven facts, but I don't have a fan on mine, and don't feel any need.

That said, I'm heating a very small space, about 300 sq'.
I have no doubt that a fan would push a lot of heat from the stove though, due to the air jacket design.

Rob


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## raderator (Dec 11, 2010)

This would be on the lower floor center of a 1700sf house.  Also, anything to cool down the stove would be a plus. I'm kinda paranoid.

What did you use for a stove pipe? I'm thinking of this:

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/65264/

Did you get a tax credit for the chimney and pipe? I wonder if I can claim the fan.


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## 48rob (Dec 11, 2010)

> This would be on the lower floor center of a 1700sf house.  Also, anything to cool down the stove would be a plus. I’m kinda paranoid.
> 
> What did you use for a stove pipe? I’m thinking of this:
> 
> ...



I believe the pipe can be included in the cost of installing the stove, since the manufacturer recommends it...

I haven't filed yet, but hope so.

I used double wall pipe, to keep clearances to a minimum, and keep the smoke/gasses hotter to reduce the amount of creosote produced.
I also read here that the smoke, when combined with moisture, is very corrosive to plain single wall steel pipe, and that the double wall uses stainless for the interior pipe, which means I don't have to buy new "cheap" pipe every couple years.

Why are you paranoid about "cooling off the stove"?

It is, in my limited experience, very easy to keep the stove/fire from getting out of control and becoming too hot, if that is your concern.

At 1700 sq' it would probably be a good thing to keep the stove running at 450-500 degrees, something that is easy enough, and not too hot for the stove.

Rob


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## raderator (Dec 11, 2010)

Something like this?

http://www.ventingpipe.com/metal-fab-6dwbtl66-6-telescoping-stove-pipe-length-36-66/p654029

Do these snap together permanently? I need to get it apart to clean the flue from the bottom. No getting on the roof.


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## 48rob (Dec 11, 2010)

I used Selkirk double wall pipe, as it was available locally.
http://www.selkirkcorp.com/supervent/Product.aspx?id=58

It does not "snap" together, rather the pieces slide into each other, and then after the install is finished, the sections are screwed together.
It is very easy to remove a section or two for cleaning.
I used a telescoping section that is about 12" together, and 16" or so extended.

You may be thinking of the single wall pipe that "snaps" together to form the tube, as it is sold loose, so many sections can be shipped together.
Double wall pipe comes assembled, usually rivited together and the inner tube is stainless steel, to be resistant to the corrosive effects of the smoke/creosote mix.

Rob


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## raderator (Dec 11, 2010)

I have found nothing in two Lowe's and one HD that looks like it would work. Amazing, considering everyone sells wood stoves. And all I have is a normal, flat 8' ceiling.


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## raderator (Dec 12, 2010)

OK, going with the 22 gage single telescoping pipe for $51+shipping. I'll have 12&3/4" to the wall. Guy at the fancy stove store said 22 gage will last 20 yrs.

Don't know if I want the fan. What's a cheap form of floor protection? Might as well get that now for the 30% credit.

Edit: Holy carp, it's stainless steel. Too bad they don't have it without the paint.

http://www.ventingpipe.com/metal-fab-6swtl66-6-x-36-66-telescoping-stove-pipe-length/p654187


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## begreen (Dec 12, 2010)

Single wall pipe requires 18" from the wall, no exceptions. It will be hot and need either a wall shield, pipe shields or just put in a double-wall telescoping pipe.


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## raderator (Dec 12, 2010)

Then why does the Englander manual say 12"?


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## begreen (Dec 12, 2010)

It doesn't say that for the pipe, just for the stove. It's poor documentation. I'm guessing that the 12" from the flue collar is what the stove was tested at for safe stove clearances. This doesn't change the requirement for single-wall pipe clearance. It's 18" from combustibles unless shielded. Though technically you could use single wall pipe if it had pipe shields installed and then the clearance of 12" would be achievable. 

Call Englander Tech Support tomorrow for an explanation and to let them know the documentation is misleading. You're not the first one to run into this. Englander should clarify asap. It's confusing and could be dangerous. Here's a shot of the website where you are buying the pipe. Note that the Englander docs do say: ALWAYS install vent pipe in strict adherence to the instructions and clearances included with your venting system.

PS: Is Metal Fab the same brand as the class A pipe this is connecting to?


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## raderator (Dec 13, 2010)

Englander:






Amesti:






28cm=11"

Flue is Metalbestos. Guess they changed their name to Metalbest.

http://www.ventingpipe.com/metalbest-dsp6tl-6-telescoping-stove-pipe-adjusts-from-38-to-68/p1069015


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## begreen (Dec 13, 2010)

Yep, that's for the stove, not the pipe. You can install it at 12" with single wall if the pipe is shielded, so technically it's correct. But most decent manuals would have a footnote telling you this. 

Not sure about the Amesti. I haven't looked at that manual. Are the instructions even based on US or Canadian code?


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## raderator (Dec 13, 2010)

Gives distance for stove and pipe. I don't see a Metalbest 8" to 6" adapter anywhere so it doesn't matter what brand pipe I use. Good luck removing a double-walled telescoping pipe to clean the flue. There are two surfaces to stick.


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## begreen (Dec 13, 2010)

I have double-wall, telescoping on two stoves. No big deal, slides easy. Here's the docs. And also the Metalbest increaser for their DSP pipe.


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## raderator (Dec 13, 2010)

Oh OK, they call it an increaser instead of an adapter like everyone else. Thanks.

Edit: $73!

This is dumb. 6" is 6" for everyone. The flue is 30 yrs old. The universe has expanded a lot since then.

Edit: There's no simple way to do this with double pipe. I'm gonna use stainless single pipe and either use wall protection or a reflector on the pipe.


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## begreen (Dec 13, 2010)

It's a double-wall increaser, designed for double-wall pipe to maintain the closer clearances afforded by this pipe. 

Will you need to offset the pipe from the stove to align with the current ceiling connection to the class A pipe? What's the distance from center of the current 8" ceiling support box to the wall? Can you post a picture of the support box?


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## raderator (Dec 13, 2010)

I'll takes pics when my brother gives me my camera back. He took it skiing, like one snow covered hill looks any different from another.

So, assuming Metalbestos hasn't changed anything in 30 yrs, this should work for $233.25 shipped:


http://www.ventingpipe.com/metalbest-dspi68-6-to-8-stove-pipe-increaser/p1069039






http://www.ventingpipe.com/metalbest-dsp6tl-6-telescoping-stove-pipe-adjusts-from-38-to-68/p1069015






I'll have to check all the measurements. BTW, does the ceiling plate pop off? It's circular. Modern installations just have a square box sticking down. Gotta make sure this adpter will fit on what's there.


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## begreen (Dec 13, 2010)

Sounds good. The reason for the question is that if the support box connection is far enough away from the wall that the single wall clearance requirement of 18" is honored, then you may be able to do an offset off the stove to the correct position. If so, that would mean that only the pipe that is <18" away from the wall would need to be shielded. Or the stove could be moved away from the wall ~16" and your original plan should work.


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## raderator (Dec 13, 2010)

Or do I need the reducer?

http://www.ventingpipe.com/metalbest-dspr86-8-to-6-stove-pipe-reducer/p1069060

Edit: OK, manual says crimped end points up on outer pipe, down on inner pipe.

With the tax credit, it's only $163.28. Guess I'll forget the fan. It won't work in the apocalypse anyway.


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## begreen (Dec 13, 2010)

That's why I wanted to see what is up there. Are you sure it is Metalbest? Some companies offer round support boxes, we have one by Simpson with a circular trim ring. Does the class A go up through an attic where you could check to see if there is a label on the pipe? If so, copy the mfg data, including the UL tested rating from the pipe.


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## raderator (Dec 13, 2010)

Already covered in previous posts. Flue is Metalbestos SS 85EL. All clearances are 2" as per sticker except the one going thru the roof deck. Gonna have to widen it. When I get my camera back, I'll go up and take pics.


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## begreen (Dec 13, 2010)

How far is the support box's 8" pipe opening from the wall.


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## raderator (Dec 13, 2010)

12"


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## begreen (Dec 13, 2010)

OK, then the choices are either shielded single-wall or double wall pipe as the connector. Double wall will need an adapter and that is where I am uncertain due to the age of the pipe. The current Metalbest system uses an adapter (T-CPA) and a DSP finishing band between the ceiling box and the DSP pipe. "If" this will work for the old pipe the list from top to bottom would be: 8" adapter, 6" to 8" increaser, 6" telescoping pipe, (stove adapter?) stove. 

If you want to go the single wall route, then you'll need to get a couple pipe shielding kits that cover the wall side of the pipe from the stove to the ceiling box. 
http://www.northlineexpress.com/item/5CO-54120/HomeSaver-Stovepipe-Shield


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## stoveguy2esw (Dec 14, 2010)

ok, here's the poop on the clearance discrpancy:

the measurements listed in the manual are for the stove itself and how close it can be with a certain pipe system "ie" siingle wall pipe. this means in order to get the stove to teh clearance allowed FOR THE STOVE the pipe would be closer than the 18 inch minimum requirement. so, in order to achieve that clearance the pipe must be shielded per NFPA211. the pipe CAN NOT be that close otherwise. 

im going to see about getting a clarification added to the manual to state this in explicit terms. but in the mean time to the OP, *do not* mount the stove to allow 12 inch clearance without shielding the pipe with a wall mounted protector as specified in the NFPA211


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## raderator (Dec 14, 2010)

Thanks for clearing that up. Talked to the inspector for our town and he said 18".  Looks like an old ceiling plate designed for an 8" single wall pipe. I'll have a pic tomorrow. What's a cheap form of wall protection that doesn't look bad and which can also be used on the floor?


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## begreen (Dec 14, 2010)

For single-wall use pipe shields and no wall protection needed. Otherwise beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. A wall shield can be painted sheetmetal if it's on 1" standoffs. But that wouldn't make a good hearth. They make a basic black hearth board that should work ok for that.


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## Renovation (Dec 14, 2010)

raderator said:
			
		

> I'll takes pics when my brother gives me my camera back. He took it skiing, like one snow covered hill looks any different from another.
> 
> So, assuming Metalbestos hasn't changed anything in 30 yrs, this should work for $233.25 shipped:
> 
> I'll have to check all the measurements. BTW, does the ceiling plate pop off? It's circular. Modern installations just have a square box sticking down. Gotta make sure this adpter will fit on what's there.



If you want to go from an 8" chimney to a 6" stovepipe, this is the wrong one.  The crimped should always be *towards* the stove, so creosote stays in the pipe.  Use the same brand for all fittings--stovepipe, chimney, etc.


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## raderator (Dec 14, 2010)

In the case of single wall, yes. For double wall the visable crimp is up.

http://www.ventingpipe.com/mediabase/specifications/mbstovepipeinstallguide.pdf


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## Renovation (Dec 14, 2010)

raderator said:
			
		

> In the case of single wall, yes. For double wall the crimp is up.



D-oh!  Thanks, I stand corrected.  :red:


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## raderator (Dec 14, 2010)

Yep, this cap seems designed for a single-wall 8" pipe. There are three screw holes in the outer rim. I tried pulling it off and turning it to no avail, tho not very hard. Guess I'm gonna need a shield or wall protection. Tho a shield would make it a PITA to remove the stove pipe for flue cleaning. But the screws for the shield could serve double duty to hold the telescoping pipe together, and I wouldn't have to remove them all, maybe 6 screws.


















Now the question is, can I get away with the gap in the shield at the top and bottom. It would create quite a convection current so would cool the pipe.






Edit: The sites that sell this say:

This stove pipe shield allows you to reduce required single wall stove pipe clearances from 18" to 6". The shield attaches to the pipe with the ceramic spacers and screws provided. This often eliminates the need to attach a cumbersome shield directly to combustible surfaces nearby.

http://www.woodstove-outlet.com/woodstove/Ocp54120.htm


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## raderator (Dec 14, 2010)

The saga continues. I went to Agway and, miracle of miracles, they had an 8x6 adapter crimped on the 6" side. Unfortunately, the 8" side is exactly 8", no more, and will not fit around my ceiling pipe. 

I talked to the guys at Agway who looked at me funny when I asked if most people get permits. Apparently not. I asked them about telling my insurance company and they said yes, of course. They said they don't raise your rate.

This one looks much better anyway and is 22 gage. The screw holes must mean that the 8" end is wide enough to accept the pipe, no?






The next alternative is trying to yank the ceiling plate off and replace it with something else. It has nubs that look like they are holding it on.


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## begreen (Dec 14, 2010)

The edge of the 8" pipe opening on the support box looks much closer than 12" to the woodwork, bottom right. If so, this could be an illegal installation, even for double-wall.


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## SmokingAndPoking (Dec 14, 2010)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> Yep, that's for the stove, not the pipe. You can install it at 12" with single wall if the pipe is shielded, so technically it's correct. But most decent manuals would have a footnote telling you this.
> 
> Not sure about the Amesti. I haven't looked at that manual. Are the instructions even based on US or Canadian code?



Seems like we've had this discussion before?

Default clearance for single wall chimney connector is 18.0" per NFPA 211.

If a UL listed unit tests with the single wall closer to combustible walls than 18.0" it can be listed for installation that way.  In other words, if, during the UL testing process, the wall temperatures behind the chimney connector do not exceed the predetermined temp. limits, you may say that the chimney connector on that particular unit can be installed closer than 18.0".  

This is not that uncommon in the industry; as an example, the Morso 1410 has an 11.0" clearance between single wall chimney connector and NFPA unprotected surfaces.  The Jotul 118CB lists a clearance of 13.0" from single wall chimney connector to NFPA 211 unprotected surfaces.

You may have a hard time convincing a local code enforement official of this, but I can assure you it is a safe installation.


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## raderator (Dec 14, 2010)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> The edge of the 8" pipe opening on the support box looks much closer than 12" to the woodwork, bottom right. If so, this could be an illegal installation, even for double-wall.



It's a white bookcase which is going. The pipe is 12" from the wall.


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## raderator (Dec 14, 2010)

SmokingAndPoking said:
			
		

> BeGreen said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I always assumed this and that the stove manuals were correct. Unfortunately, the Englander guy says (a few posts back) that the manual is wrong: 



> ok, here’s the poop on the clearance discrpancy:
> 
> the measurements listed in the manual are for the stove itself and how close it can be with a certain pipe system “ie” siingle wall pipe. this means in order to get the stove to teh clearance allowed FOR THE STOVE the pipe would be closer than the 18 inch minimum requirement. so, in order to achieve that clearance the pipe must be shielded per NFPA211. the pipe CAN NOT be that close otherwise.
> 
> ...



So, I guess I'll go with the shield.

Edit. OMG, these Englander manuals are very confusing. Look at this one:

http://www.englandsstoveworks.com/manuals/12-FP.pdf

"A clearance of 10.5” between single wall chimney connector and combustible materials is
required. Check with authorities having jurisdiction in your area with any questions."






Note 3 just says use floor protection.

Surely, there have been many Englander stoves installed with a single pipe within 1' of the wall because their manuals for the smaller stoves SAY it is OK.


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## raderator (Dec 15, 2010)

Does this look like it will fit? This is the 5" and not the 8". Snaps in, theoretically.


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## SmokingAndPoking (Dec 15, 2010)

raderator said:
			
		

> SmokingAndPoking said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




FYI, I'm the englander guy that designed the stove, wrote the manual and accompanied it through testing.  The information I gave you was what was found during testing and I did my best to list it in the manual in a clear fashion.


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## SmokingAndPoking (Dec 15, 2010)

We're talking about two different things here everyone.

The default clearance of 18.0" between single wall chimney connector and unprotected NFPA 211 surfaces is just that, a default value for untested stoves or installations.  (The pipe manufacturers list this clearance because they don't possibly know what you're going to use the pipe on, so it keeps them out of trouble.)

The clearance listed in a manual for a tested and listed solid fuel appliance is a value that was achieved during safety testing.  This value overrides the default NFPA 211 clearance, since there is no reason to take a default clearance if you LIST AN APPLIANCE to UL standards.

If you're going to say that single wall pipe can't be installed closer than 18.0" to a combustible wall because of NFPA 211 than you also have to say that a stove can't be installed closer than 36.0" because that is the NFPA 211 default clearance for wood stoves.


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## raderator (Dec 15, 2010)

So much contradictory info. But if I can get than ring to fit (see pic a couple of posts up) then I can use double wall pipe.


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## begreen (Dec 15, 2010)

I think it needs the proper Metalbest CPA adapter ring for double-wall to be kosher, not a generic single-wall adapter. Look again at the crimped top end of the 6" double-wall pipe. Or better yet, call Selkirk. 

Selkirk Corporation

Toll Free: 1.800.992.VENT (8368)
Fax: 1.877.393.4145
Email:
sales@selkirkinc.com
custsvc@selkirkinc.com
metalbestsupport@selkirkinc.com


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## raderator (Dec 15, 2010)

That's what I posted.






Tried calling and got no one. Wrote an email and have not heard back.


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## SmokingAndPoking (Dec 15, 2010)

raderator said:
			
		

> So much contradictory info. But if I can get than ring to fit (see pic a couple of posts up) then I can use double wall pipe.



Well, as the designer of the stove you're buying and the person who wrote the manuals you're reading, I tried to be as clear as possible.  Have fun!


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## begreen (Dec 15, 2010)

Corie, do you know if Meltalbest DSP will slip over/in the flue collar or is an adapter needed per pipe mfg?


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## raderator (Dec 15, 2010)

SmokingAndPoking said:
			
		

> raderator said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You need to take this up with Mike Holton (see his posts above). He claims to work for Englander and has an englander e-mail address.

Maybe this is what I need:

http://www.dynamitebuys.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=6572


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## begreen (Dec 15, 2010)

That's 8". 

Corie worked at Englander when he designed this stove. There is no one that knows it better.


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## raderator (Dec 17, 2010)

OK, now I'm thinking about a cheap hearth pad. The 17-VL needs a 3'x3' and and R value of 0.5. Gold Bond 5/8ths gypsum board meets that. How about covering it with rolled aluminum flashing? Is there any way to get a solid 3'x3' piece of metal? How would you edge it?


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## Renovation (Dec 17, 2010)

raderator said:
			
		

> SmokingAndPoking said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



IMO, when the person who designed the stove gives you personal advice, he doesn't need to take it up with anyone.  But that's just me.

Thanks for your stove and your help, Corie!


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## raderator (Dec 17, 2010)

Well, shouldn't the other employee be in trouble for contradicting the designer? Seems like the boss should straighten this out.

How about a sheet of gypsum board covered with glass? You could paint the bottom of the glass some cool color and it would be perfectly smooth.

BTW, is fiberglass allowed to touch a Class A chimney pipe if there's no paper on it?


----------



## precaud (Dec 17, 2010)

IMO, it would be nice if said designer would do more than just come here to collect praise... he's been asked several questions lately and refused to answer any of them. Odd behavior toward a group that essentially got him connected into the industry.


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## Renovation (Dec 17, 2010)

precaud said:
			
		

> IMO, it would be nice if said designer would do more than just come here to collect praise... he's been asked several questions lately and refused to answer any of them. Odd behavior toward a group that essentially got him connected into the industry.



I guess you missed:



> Weâ€™re talking about two different things here everyone.
> 
> The default clearance of 18.0â€ between single wall chimney connector and unprotected NFPA 211 surfaces is just that, a default value for untested stoves or installations.  (The pipe manufacturers list this clearance because they donâ€™t possibly know what youâ€™re going to use the pipe on, so it keeps them out of trouble.)
> 
> ...



I found that very direct and helpful--Corie cleared up a confusing issue that has been raised and discussed many times here.   I am very grateful to get such personal help from a stove's designer.  But that's just me.

Why criticize someone who is volunteering time just to help folks?  All it does is drive them away.


----------



## Hanko (Dec 17, 2010)

thought we were talkin good and cheap.


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## precaud (Dec 17, 2010)

> Why criticize someone who is volunteering time just to help folks?  All it does is drive them away.


I missed that. But he has never answered any of my questions. Even by PM.


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## raderator (Dec 18, 2010)

Just ordered the 17-VL from their yahoo store.  Gonna order single-wall stovepipes from from Dynamitebuys, stainless steel, $82.

The thing that finally convinced me (after seeing the Amesti price drop to $499, + tax, no tax credit tho) was looking at a Scan at a local store for $2300 + $200 delivery + tax. The firebox on it looked very much like the 17-VL.







BTW, they said only 20% of people use double-walled stovepipe on the $2K stoves they sell.


----------



## begreen (Dec 18, 2010)

Great. And order the pipe heat shielding too. The percentage of people ordering double wall pipe from them has absolutely nothing to do with your installation. You have a double-wall setup.


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## raderator (Dec 18, 2010)

Logs really aren't likely to roll out of these things because you kinda have to parallel park them in since the opening is not as wide as the firebox. Still not sure if these pipes will fit. Maybe I'll just order the adapter and then get the pipe later.

http://www.dynamitebuys.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=4757






http://www.dynamitebuys.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=4737






The adapter seems to have a stepped top so should fit the 8" chimney pipe. The bottom pipe is going to be a tight fit since the opening in the stove is exactly 6", no more. Might have to sand the edge off it and use some graphite, or get a tapered adapter.


EDIT: 

Looks like Ventingpipe was wrong. Those are not stainless but 24 gage galvanized.

http://www.dynamitebuys.com/store/pdf/Metal-Fab-Black-Pipe-Specifications.pdf

This 22 gage Selkirk Heat-fab stuff looks much better, 5 yr warranty:

http://www.ventingpipe.com/heat-fab-2628b-6-inch-crimp-8-inch-non-crimp-adapter/p651532






http://www.ventingpipe.com/heat-fab-2606b-6-x-38-70-telescoping-pipe-length/p651515






BTW, I found out that the ring thing won't work on existing construction, which is why I'm back to single pipe.


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## joecool85 (Mar 28, 2011)

Thought I'd let you guys know that the Amesti N380 is on clearance at my local Lowes for $399.  I picked one up.  $150 cheaper than a 17VL from overstockstoves.com and it looks quite rugged in build quality with the exception of the kinda flimsy door.  If the door becomes an issue I can always either fabricate a new one or weld some supports on it.  Not sure if I'm a fan of the removeable handle either.  It's quite hard to push in hard enough to the door to grab the pin and then turn the handle without the handle coming out of it's mounting hole (the hole only goes half way through the "nut" on the door). I may drill the rest of the way through that "nut" so I can get more of the handle's end in the hole.  We'll see.  I'm also hoping that once we hook it up and use it a few times the gasket will seat in and it will close easier.  I could also shim the latch if I need to...oh the options.

It is a nice looking stove though.  Weight on the box says 215lbs btw so 170lbs must be without brick and door etc.

**edit**
I started a new thread for anyone interested in this stove: https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/73535/


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## joecool85 (Apr 1, 2011)

precaud said:
			
		

> Hiram Maxim said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Jotul still does it, at least on the 602.  I checked one out earlier and they have a stepped baffle for introducing secondary air.  Only two steps instead of the three on this one though.  Not sure if it makes a difference or not.


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