# Coal in a Pellet Stove?



## RKBAGUY (Feb 28, 2014)

Is it possible to use pea sized coal in a pellet stove?  With the scarcity of pellets around the area, I'm wondering if it's safe to substitute, since I live right smack in the Coal Belt up here in PA.


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## Bioburner (Feb 28, 2014)

NO


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## Tonyray (Feb 28, 2014)

RKBAGUY said:


> Is it possible to use pea sized coal in a pellet stove?  With the scarcity of pellets around the area, I'm wondering if it's safe to substitute, since I live right smack in the Coal Belt up here in PA.


have no idea but I would think it would make the stove and exhaust pretty dirty for openers..


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## tjnamtiw (Feb 28, 2014)

The answer is not No, it is HELL NO!  You should have bought a stoker to start with!  You'll melt the burn pot dump valve if it has (had) one or the burn chamber.  You're dealing with a major increase in btu's per pound.  Like running nitro in a VW beetle.


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## kennyp2339 (Feb 28, 2014)

sure if you want to burn down your house, or destroy a $2,000 +++ machine


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## SmokeyTheBear (Feb 28, 2014)

RTFM.

Is 15% ash fuel listed?  

Is coal listed as an approved fuel?

If the answer to *both* questions is *yes* then you have a coal stoker so load it up otherwise ixnay on the coal burning.


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## RKBAGUY (Feb 28, 2014)

OK, just thought I'd ask.


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## tjnamtiw (Feb 28, 2014)

I guess you got a good cross-section of the group's psyche.    Or psycho!!

NIce stove, by the way.  Put it's description in your 'signature' so it's easier for everyone to know what you have.


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## BrotherBart (Feb 28, 2014)

RTFM ain't an accepted reply here. Period. Just like "Google is your friend.," or "Search is your friend." isn't.


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## MaryH (Feb 28, 2014)

RKBAGUY said:


> Is it possible to use pea sized coal in a pellet stove?  With the scarcity of pellets around the area, I'm wondering if it's safe to substitute, since I live right smack in the Coal Belt up here in PA.




Just for grits, and shins, we tried throwing a "few" pieces of rice coal in the burn pot of our PAH - and it didn't light, even after an hour.

Any restriction, under the coal, would prevent it from igniting -just the nature of the fuel.


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## tjnamtiw (Feb 28, 2014)

MaryH said:


> Just for grits, and shins, we tried throwing a "few" pieces of rice coal in the burn pot of our PAH - and it didn't light, even after an hour.
> 
> Any restriction, under the coal, would prevent it from igniting -just the nature of the fuel.


Yes, coal must have air flowing up through it to ignite.  Now it might actually burn in a Quad with the small holes directing air at the very bottom but it would melt the trap door.  You'd get plenty of heat until all three snap disks popped, the bottom burned out of your stove, the smoke detector went off, and the CO detector started screaming.  If you could hear it above the fire trucks' sirens.


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## MarkF48 (Mar 1, 2014)

Pic of a coal stove in action.... would be a wee bit too hot for a pellet stove me thinks


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## SmokeyTheBear (Mar 1, 2014)

BrotherBart said:


> RTFM ain't an accepted reply here. Period. Just like "Google is your friend.," or "Search is your friend." isn't.



Actually BB that is the only acceptable answer in this case as it is The Fine Manual that came with the stove and only The Fine Manual that came with the stove that applies, anything else is just a guess, but a guess nonetheless.

After all what could possibly go wrong?

Even old solid fuel furnaces that could burn either fuel had specific grate sets that you had to use and there is a large difference in what coal they could even burn reliably and safely.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Mar 1, 2014)

MarkF48 said:


> Pic of a coal stove in action.... would be a wee bit too hot for a pellet stove me thinks
> 
> View attachment 128624



Nice it has been a few years since I've seen a picture of a coal fire.


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## tjnamtiw (Mar 1, 2014)

MarkF48 said:


> Pic of a coal stove in action.... would be a wee bit too hot for a pellet stove me thinks
> 
> View attachment 128624


AHHHH.  I can feel the warmth from here!  Is that stove coal or nut? My stove coal was HUGE this year with pieces bigger than both my fists.


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## MarkF48 (Mar 1, 2014)

tjnamtiw said:


> AHHHH.  I can feel the warmth from here!  Is that stove coal or nut? My stove coal was HUGE this year with pieces bigger than both my fists.


Stove coal, but nothing as large as a fist. I've been thinking about trying nut size to see how it burns in comparison.


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## Tonyray (Mar 1, 2014)

Look how friggin Thick that Coal stove is!
reason for that...
coal would probably melt my Harman...


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## tjnamtiw (Mar 1, 2014)

MarkF48 said:


> Stove coal, but nothing as large as a fist. I've been thinking about trying nut size to see how it burns in comparison.


Yea, I got screwed with this stove coal in bags.  Monster pieces mixed in with powder!  Never again.  The nut coal really burns nicely and gives you a nice smooth bed of coals.


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## tjnamtiw (Mar 1, 2014)

Tonyray said:


> Look how friggin Thick that Coal stove is!
> reason for that...
> coal would probably melt my Harman...


Guaranteed!  Would warp it like a pretzel.  There's a reason they put an inch or two of refractory cement in the firebox!    And why the stoves put out 90,000 btu's.


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## DBCOOPER (Mar 1, 2014)

tjnamtiw said:


> Yes, coal must have air flowing up through it to ignite.



Unless you soak it in gas first...


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## MaryH (Mar 1, 2014)

Tonyray said:


> Look how friggin Thick that Coal stove is!
> reason for that...
> coal would probably melt my Harman...



*turn it into a puddle, if the underdraft, was wide open.


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## GeHmTS (Mar 1, 2014)

Can you use and alternative fuel like corn?  Some of these stove can do both.


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## tjnamtiw (Mar 1, 2014)

GeHmTS said:


> Can you use and alternative fuel like corn?  Some of these stove can do both.


Most will burn a 50/50 mixture BUT you should have the corn rated exhaust piping because of the acids produced when burning corn.


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## DIrtyJersey (Mar 1, 2014)

Saw this on You tube.


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## GeHmTS (Mar 1, 2014)

50/50 corn is better than 50/50 coal.


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## tjnamtiw (Mar 1, 2014)

DIrtyJersey said:


> Saw this on You tube.



Holy crap.  good luck with that one!  They are using a hobbyist pellet maker with rollers and a flat die.  I'm amazed that they got it to bind!  I wonder what the life of the die is.  Still, no way would I put that in my stove unless I had a death wish for the stove and my family.


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## GeHmTS (Mar 1, 2014)

Theoretically, you can design a stove for these kinds of coal pellets or I suppose you can simply put them in normal coal stove.  Do you think they are easier to fire up?


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## SmokeyTheBear (Mar 1, 2014)

DIrtyJersey said:


> Saw this on You tube.




More ash, more corrosive combustion byproducts. more BTUs per pound, not for any pellet stove.  You can not even burn torrified wood pellets in a pellet stove.  The stoves are not rated, nor built for such fuel.   You need proper venting to boot.

Why, oh why, does everyone want to push it into the red zone, is it a secret desire to live on the bleeding edge.

We have examples of that every season, usually leading to many closed to posting and then deleted threads.


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## tjnamtiw (Mar 1, 2014)

GeHmTS said:


> Theoretically, you can design a stove for these kinds of coal pellets or I suppose you can simply put them in normal coal stove.  Do you think they are easier to fire up?


If you want to burn them in a coal stove, why not just get pea coal, which is about the same size?  Makes no sense to me.


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## hyfire (Mar 1, 2014)

What if you burned 15% coal and 85% pellets? Kinda like E85 for pellet stoves?


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## tjnamtiw (Mar 1, 2014)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> More ash, more corrosive combustion byproducts. more BTUs per pound, not for any pellet stove.  You can not even burn torrified wood pellets in a pellet stove.  The stoves are not rated, nor built for such fuel.   You need proper venting to boot.
> 
> Why, oh why, does everyone want to push it into the red zone, is it a secret desire to live on the bleeding edge.
> 
> We have examples of that every season, usually leading to many closed to posting and then deleted threads.


Yep, a lot more ash but if it's anthracite, it burns very clean with no corrosive byproducts.  Regular old vent pipe lasts for years.  Don't know about bituminous coal.

Yea, with this cold weather everyone is pushing the envelope of what their stove can handle.  What do you want to bet that there will be a rash of horrified people complaining that they have found warped and cracked parts in their stoves during the big spring cleaning.  These cheap pellet stoves are falling apart will be the cry.


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## titleist1 (Mar 1, 2014)

tjnamtiw said:


> Yep, a lot more ash but if it's anthracite, it burns very clean with no corrosive byproducts.  Regular old vent pipe lasts for years.



The fly ash from anthracite if the stove / stoker is kept running won't corrode because the heat keeps it dry.  When it is shut down, like over summer, the humidity will react with the fly ash (even fly ash residue left over after cleaning flue pipes & chimney) and rust out the metal, even SS over time.



GeHmTS said:


> Theoretically, you can design a stove for these kinds of coal pellets or I suppose you can simply put them in normal coal stove.  Do you think they are easier to fire up?



If you mean a hand fired coal stove, at that size they would likely fall through the shaker grates.  If they would manage to not fall through they look like they would pack too tightly to allow a good bit of air through them and the heat output would be lower than pea, nut or stove size. 

If you mean a coal stoker, they would likely work as well as pea, rice or buck sized coal once you got the proper air / feed rate adjusted for them to burn well.


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## Bioburner (Mar 2, 2014)

Same issue with corn. Keep it hot no problem. Its when the off season condensate starts the horror of corrosion. I remove and power wash after season.


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## tjnamtiw (Mar 2, 2014)

titleist1 said:


> The fly ash from anthracite if the stove / stoker is kept running won't corrode because the heat keeps it dry.  When it is shut down, like over summer, the humidity will react with the fly ash (even fly ash residue left over after cleaning flue pipes & chimney) and rust out the metal, even SS over time.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I thought about using them in a stoker too but they'd probably roll right off the bed!  Plus why put more labor, machinery costs, and electricity into a product that works great in it's natural state?  It makes no sense.


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## RKBAGUY (Mar 2, 2014)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> Why, oh why, does everyone want to push it into the red zone, is it a secret desire to live on the bleeding edge.



Reflecting on the original purpose of my post, the question wasn't about pushing the envelope, it was about finding supply of fuel late in the season.  All sellers in my area are completely sold out of wood pellets, and I have only 2 bags left as of today.

It seems some folks can't resist an opportunity to take someone to task over just about anything.


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## Bioburner (Mar 2, 2014)

RKBAGUY said:


> Reflecting on the original purpose of my post, the question wasn't about pushing the envelope, it was about finding supply of fuel late in the season.  All sellers in my area are completely sold out of wood pellets, and I have only 2 bags left as of today.
> 
> It seems some folks can't resist an opportunity to take someone to task over just about anything.


I thought my original post was simple enough. NO The sun is up, its Sunday and its only -13F out on the 2nd day of March. At this rate will get the cycles out for a nice run on the 4th of July. Wonder if anybody will have any pellets for sale by then?


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## tjnamtiw (Mar 2, 2014)

RKBAGUY said:


> Reflecting on the original purpose of my post, the question wasn't about pushing the envelope, it was about finding supply of fuel late in the season.  All sellers in my area are completely sold out of wood pellets, and I have only 2 bags left as of today.
> 
> It seems some folks can't resist an opportunity to take someone to task over just about anything.


Oh, don't get feeling hurt.  We all do it in jest!  You just need a thick skin sometimes.  Don't forget to dish it back on when YOU have the opportunity.  We actually feel for you and perhaps someone will come forward to help you out like they did to another fellow who was running out and had no backup.  We all actually are a good group ready to help.  

To be honest, being that you ARE in coal country, over the summer I would keep an eye on craigslist for a coal stove as a back-up if you can find one reasonably cheap.  Even a hand fed unit could keep you quite warm if pellets become rare again next year when Global Warming shows its ugly head. You don't' need a chimney with a lot of the units.  They can be run on power vents.


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## RKBAGUY (Mar 2, 2014)

tjnamtiw said:


> Oh, don't get feeling hurt.  We all do it in jest!
> 
> Even a hand fed unit could keep you quite warm if pellets become rare again next year when Global Warming shows its ugly head. You don't' need a chimney with a lot of the units.  They can be run on power vents.



There's a difference between humor and snark.

This being my first ever season with a pellet stove, I bought what I anticipated and calculated to be enough pellets for my home, but without the benefit of experience, it turned out to be just a guess.

Given the amount of 'modding' that goes on around here, I made the erroneous assumption that if there were a workaround this would be the place to ask.


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## NHcpa (Mar 2, 2014)

MarkF48 said:


> Pic of a coal stove in action.... would be a wee bit too hot for a pellet stove me thinks
> 
> View attachment 128624


Awesome...looks like you captured the sun...


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## GeHmTS (Mar 2, 2014)

you can always go ahead and try against the consensus here.  After all, we can't stop you!


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## peirhead (Mar 2, 2014)

RKBA I actually was wondering the same thing about coal.....what about a very low mix of something like 1 lb rice coal to 40 lbs of pellets ?


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## Bioburner (Mar 2, 2014)

peirhead said:


> RKBA I actually was wondering the same thing about coal.....what about a very low mix of something like 1 lb rice coal to 40 lbs of pellets ?


Probably wont light or sustain. SOL


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## hyfire (Mar 2, 2014)

Bioburner said:


> Probably wont light or sustain. SOL


I think it would, but you can;t guarantee the mix will be uniform in the burn pot, its not worth the risk on damaging the burnpot/heat exchanger, or your home!


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## tjnamtiw (Mar 2, 2014)

RKBAGUY said:


> There's a difference between humor and snark.
> 
> This being my first ever season with a pellet stove, I bought what I anticipated and calculated to be enough pellets for my home, but without the benefit of experience, it turned out to be just a guess.
> 
> Given the amount of 'modding' that goes on around here, I made the erroneous assumption that if there were a workaround this would be the place to ask.


We DO mod some of our stoves to get more 'available' heat out of them but it's the difference between input btu's staying the same and output btu's going up.  To make you feel more at ease, you are NOT the first or second person that I've seen ask the same question on here.  It's just a matter of input btu's and what the stove is rated for.  There are a lot of pellet burners around you.  All you really have to do is ask if someone would be willing to sell some of their stash.


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## MaryH (Mar 2, 2014)

peirhead said:


> RKBA I actually was wondering the same thing about coal.....what about a very low mix of something like 1 lb rice coal to 40 lbs of pellets ?



*Guess it was missed, that we tried it.

We have 2 coal stokers, also,

Coal likes to be around other coal, to burn.

The lesser temperatures, of the pellets burning, doesn't cut it.

"IF' heaven forbid, you did get a gathering, of coal to go down the chute, enough for it to continue to burn - it would probably vaporize, the next wood pellet feed.

*Think use coal fire, to MELT steel, we haven't tried melting steel, with pellets....yet


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## Bioburner (Mar 2, 2014)

hyfire said:


> I think it would, but you can;t guarantee the mix will be uniform in the burn pot, its not worth the risk on damaging the burnpot/heat exchanger, or your home!


After I hit post I flashed the thought of the Fukushima disaster but on a smaller scale.


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## Countryboymo (Mar 2, 2014)

Coal burns crazy hot and for an extended period compared to wood or wood pellets.  If you were experimenting outside with coal in a pellet stove it might be tricky once it got up and roaring if it could be shut down before reaching or exceeding critical mass lol.


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## Countryboymo (Mar 2, 2014)

I was thinking the same exact thing as  you Bio... isn't that scary.


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## Bioburner (Mar 2, 2014)

MaryH said:


> *Guess it was missed, that we tried it.
> 
> We have 2 coal stokers, also,
> 
> ...


Pine charcoal is what brought man out of the bronze age into the age of steel. Still used by Japaneese knife makers. Have friend that takes metal smithing classes.


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## MaryH (Mar 2, 2014)

Bioburner said:


> Pine charcoal is what brought man out of the bronze age into the age of steel. Still used by Japaneese knife makers. Have friend that takes metal smithing classes.



Pine charcoal, is far removed from pellets, eh?


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## Bioburner (Mar 2, 2014)

Not by much in a Harman with it being fed from the bottom.


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## peirhead (Mar 3, 2014)

I am in agreement on the inadvisability of trying this....what brought it to mind for me was in Kijiji a few months ago someone had posted an ad for anthracite rice coal and specifically mentioned "suitable for pellet stoves".....go figure!!


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## Bioburner (Mar 3, 2014)

peirhead said:


> I am in agreement on the inadvisability of trying this....what brought it to mind for me was in Kijiji a few months ago someone had posted an ad for anthracite rice coal and specifically mentioned "suitable for pellet stoves".....go figure!!


Hopefully ment stoker.


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## RKBAGUY (Mar 3, 2014)

MaryH said:


> *Think use coal fire, to MELT steel, we haven't tried melting steel, with pellets....yet





Bioburner said:


> After I hit post I flashed the thought of the Fukushima disaster but on a smaller scale.


LOL. Yeah, OK, I got the point the first time. Not advisable, check. Melted stove, check. Pets burned to a cinder, check. Denied insurance claim, check... check... check.


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## wwert (Mar 3, 2014)

Why is this still going? Ridiculous to begin with and way off track now.


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## tjnamtiw (Mar 3, 2014)

So were you able to find more pellets, rkbaguy?


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## RKBAGUY (Mar 3, 2014)

tjnamtiw said:


> So were you able to find more pellets, rkbaguy?


Still looking. A local dealer is supposed to be getting a delivery this week. We'll see...


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## stratocaster1422 (Mar 4, 2014)

Woodpellets.com will have 3tons of CleanFire to your door in 14days for $1,013.70.  Unfortunately you can't buy less, but it's something.


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## RKBAGUY (Mar 4, 2014)

stratocaster1422 said:


> Woodpellets.com will have 3tons of CleanFire to your door in 14days for $1,013.70.  Unfortunately you can't buy less, but it's something.


A possibility. I'd need to find someone to split it with.  Thanks for the suggestion!


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## stratocaster1422 (Mar 4, 2014)

They are saving the day for me (well planned at least...I don't have a confirmation on my delivery day yet).  I expect to get a delivery just as I am about to run out 

Glad to help out fellow RKBA friendly people


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## RKBAGUY (Mar 4, 2014)

You're up in MA, I'm in PA.  The way things are going, we might need to meet up in CT before long...


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## tjnamtiw (Mar 9, 2014)

Looks like the OP didn't like the answers here so he, or someone else from the forum, went looking for better answers > '
By: *43Yankee* On: Thu Mar 06, 2014 1:01 pm

New to the forum so be kind! I have a Harmon Advance auger fed pellet stove. Looking to feed bagged rice coal into it. I have read all about 'melting' the stove down and killing my family. I don't see the technological difference other than btu's / # difference. Since the feed is regulated by stack temp how will I melt anything?? Exactly how will this meltdown occur. Harmon coal stokers have the same style burn pot and combustion air screen. Has anybody experimented w/this and documented the results? If someone can show me facts other than dealer hype I'd love to discuss! Thanks in 'Advance'!!''

http://nepacrossroads.com/about33253.html

He got the same answers there, thankfully


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## Seasoned Oak (Mar 9, 2014)

Coal gets hot enough to crack cast iron. I went thru about 1 grate a year before i changed my coal source. Also an volume of coal burning about 6"x4" and 1 inch deep  ,about 24 Cubic inches can heat my poorly insulated 3000 Sq ft house to 75 degrees when its ZERO outside. Ill say it puts out more heat than wood.


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## RKBAGUY (Mar 9, 2014)

tjnamtiw said:


> Looks like the OP didn't like the answers here so he, or someone else from the forum, went looking for better answers


Nope. Wasn't me. Leaving aside the couple flippant posts, the other more lucid replies convinced me that coal wasn't an option, and helped me understand the underlying reason why.


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## tjnamtiw (Mar 9, 2014)

RKBAGUY said:


> Nope. Wasn't me. Leaving aside the couple flippant posts, the other more lucid replies convinced me that coal wasn't an option, and helped me understand the underlying reason why.


No, I didn't think it was you because of the stove referenced but it made me wonder.


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## tjnamtiw (Mar 9, 2014)

Seasoned Oak said:


> Coal gets hot enough to crack cast iron. I went thru about 1 grate a year before i changed my coal source. Also an volume of coal burning about 6"x4" and 1 inch deep  ,about 24 Cubic inches can heat my poorly insulated 3000 Sq ft house to 75 degrees when its ZERO outside. Ill say it puts out more heat than wood.


Letting the ash build up too close to the grate is a sure way of cracking your grates.  Other than that, they should last longer than that unless you were overfiring the stove or the castings were really sheeety.


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## Seasoned Oak (Mar 9, 2014)

tjnamtiw said:


> Letting the ash build up too close to the grate is a sure way of cracking your grates.  Other than that, they should last longer than that unless you were overfiring the stove or the castings were really sheeety.


Coal was clinkering blocking some of the air holes in the grate leading to uneven heat in the grate. Not really possible to over fire my stove. I changed coal and problem solved.


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## tjnamtiw (Mar 9, 2014)

Seasoned Oak said:


> Coal was clinkering blocking some of the air holes in the grate leading to uneven heat in the grate. Not really possible to over fire my stove. I changed coal and problem solved.


Sounds like you have a stoker.


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