# Hedge (Osage orange)? What is it?



## Sinngetreu (Jan 27, 2014)

I stopped by the local compost pile today and scored this extremely heavy wood. Whatever it is its gotta burn well when its dry ! Is it Hedge (Osage orange) or am I dreaming?  I believe this to be pretty fresh cut.


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## nrford (Jan 27, 2014)

Looks like the way I remember it looking.


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## Thistle (Jan 27, 2014)

I'd say yes going by the bark,wood is spot on also.

With what the temps have been lately here & in your neck of the woods,that's be a welcome sight to have for overnights if it was dry.

Been years now  but what I remember it dries fairly well - 12-18 months once split/stacked.


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## brian89gp (Jan 27, 2014)

Yup.


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## osagebow (Jan 27, 2014)

Giggity


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## Sinngetreu (Jan 27, 2014)

NICE I've been looking for BL, but this will work. I just wanted some confirmation before I got too excited. 
I wish it were dry, I could use it tonight.


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## JRJ (Jan 27, 2014)

Here is my Osage orange


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## Jon1270 (Jan 28, 2014)

Osage and mulberry can sometimes look awfully similar.  One method I've read about for confirming is to soak some chips in water.  Osage has a soluble dye that will color the water, while mulberry does not.


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## BobUrban (Jan 28, 2014)

Locust wishes it were osage - two of the most dense woods native to North America and both are coveted by self bowyers.  Osage is best for bows but locust is no slouch and BOTH will throw some heat!  Getting it pre-buck is definitely the coupe de' gras - that stuff can be nasty to process but worth every once of effort.

The other great thing is it rots slower than steel so you would leave it uncover and stacked in mud for years w/o loosing one BTU - seriously!

John1270 is spot on. a few scraps of sage will turn a bucket of water orange.  Mulberry is high grade wood so in the event it is NOT osage you still scored big!!


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## HackBerry (Jan 28, 2014)

Doesn't look like Osage to me. The bark should have an orange hue and the wood should be a striking yellow, like mustard, when freshly cut and then weather to a dark yellow-orange. Could be the lighting with the camera. When split it should pop and sound like bowling pins.


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## Soundchasm (Jan 28, 2014)

Sinn, I don't know enough for a 100% ID, but there might be room for doubt.  Hackberry's mustard bit is right-on.  Weight=heavy.  Mine dries to a cinnamon color.  I'm not sure I'm seeing the orange hue bark, and the bark kind of flakes off like it was painted on in layers.  The growth rings seem big compared to what I have, but they're the same size as JRJ's confirmed piece.  Here are some shots to worry you until you confirm you DID get hedge, and it'll be all the more sweeter.  I've got the Osage up against a piece of Elm which seemed similar in color and growth rings, and it was really heavy, too.


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## Hickorynut (Jan 28, 2014)

It is either hedge or mulberry, definitely not locust.


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## Missouri Frontier (Jan 28, 2014)

looks like Hedge from my place. good score you'll love it. hottest stuff you are bound to come across. It kicks my stove up another notch.


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## Missouri Frontier (Jan 28, 2014)

Sinngetreu said:


> I stopped by the local compost pile today and scored this extremely heavy wood. Whatever it is its gotta burn well when its dry ! Is it Hedge (Osage orange) or am I dreaming?  I believe this to be pretty fresh cut.
> 
> View attachment 125561
> View attachment 125562
> View attachment 125564


 

Doesnt appear fresh cut. not yellow enough. if you look at my previous post. my hedge is the same color as yours and mine had spent years on the ground. split yours and check moisture. you might be suprised. it might be dry enough already. only the wood open to the air turns dark.


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## Paulywalnut (Jan 28, 2014)

Osage and Mulberry either one is good. Osage is a mixture of Locust and dynamite.


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## Corey (Jan 28, 2014)

Sure looks like mulberry to me.  Especially that lone piece standing up with the bark.  Plus, the pieces generally look too straight and you've got a couple of 18" clean sections with no cross branches, crotches, or bends... that's not hedge. 

http://www.oplin.org/tree/fact pages/mulberry_red/mulberry_red.html


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## Sinngetreu (Jan 28, 2014)

Gosh darn it, now I can see it either way. 
I have lots of Mulberry on my property and it doesn't remind me of that so I guessed Hedge. The heartwood is TOTALLY mustard color. That is a great description of it. I am guessing that it was fairly freshly cut, but it was a scrounge, so who knows. 
JRJ's pics are a pretty good rep. The end grain is a splitting image of mine, but the bark looks slightly different (not a lot, it could just be twisting of the bark that makes it look different). It does seem to be missing the orange color in the bark. 
I might have to try the test with the chips and water. 
An interesting development, in the 24 hour period that I had one of the pieces in the house, the end exposed to the stove warmth is remarkably darker than the end that was sitting on the concrete. In other words, one end is a dark yellow and the other is a lighter mustard color. 

Well... either way, I'll burn it. 
I am going to be downing some Mulberry later, I'll have to see how it compares to my confirmed trees.


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## Soundchasm (Jan 28, 2014)

Well, looks like a bunch of us are on the edge of our seats, so if you were an ancient Saturday cartoon, you'd cue William Conrad to announce, "Be sure to tune in next week for the exciting conclusion of the Chips In Water test!"  

I've only processed one Osage, and there wasn't a lot of "straight" to it.  Never seen mulberry that I know of, but the quick color change sounds good for hedge.  Here are old and new cuts.  This was downed in 2010, and the new cuts are obvious.


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## Dogbyte (Jan 28, 2014)

Check my avatar, that is Osage, it's the shellac'd end of a 80 inch stave.


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## Sinngetreu (Jan 28, 2014)

Soundchasm said:


> Well, looks like a bunch of us are on the edge of our seats, so if you were an ancient Saturday cartoon, you'd cue William Conrad to announce, "Be sure to tune in next week for the exciting conclusion of the Chips In Water test!"
> 
> I've only processed one Osage, and there wasn't a lot of "straight" to it.  Never seen mulberry that I know of, but the quick color change sounds good for hedge.  Here are old and new cuts.  This was downed in 2010, and the new cuts are obvious.



I know, this is starting to drive me crazy. 
The pic of the pile is somewhat misleading because there is a lot of "arcs" and turns to it so it kind of piled up like that. 

Here is a pic of the same round one day later and split. Talk about bowling pins. The first one is with a flash and the second one is without a flash.


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## Dogbyte (Jan 28, 2014)

Got a pic of the seeds =P lol I'm torn between Osage or mulberry, close close cousins.


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## Sinngetreu (Jan 28, 2014)

Dogbyte said:


> Got a pic of the seeds =P lol I'm torn between Osage or mulberry, close close cousins.



No, unfortunately I don't. That would totally clear up things.


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## Dogbyte (Jan 28, 2014)

I am voting mulberry. Sap wood and heartwood contrast, along with no typical yellow tint, the bark looks like Osage and mulberry is the only thing I know of to guess with. Plus unless that came off a fence row, it's a bit straight grained if it's Osage, while mulberry usually grows straight yet leaning from a wad of trunks, you can see where the grain is in compression and tension. Small rings on the gravity side, wide rings on the opposite side that's in tension.


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## osagebow (Jan 28, 2014)

Still hard to see on my tablet...the knots look right...something bout the sapwood though...I'd know if I was there 
Oh well, here's a pic of some fresh straight pieces,  including 1 seen in my profile pic


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## Dogbyte (Jan 28, 2014)

osagebow said:


> Still hard to see on my tablet...the knots look right...something bout the sapwood though...I'd know if I was there
> Oh well, here's a pic of some fresh straight pieces,  including 1 seen in my profile pic



Lookin good,  that yellow is unmistakable.  Good lookin splits too.  Little darlings.


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## D8Chumley (Jan 29, 2014)

This is encouraging. I had a tree growing in the yard that blew over in Sandy and it had the mustard heartwood. I didn't know what it was at the time but I'm thinking mulberry/osage now. I'll have to find it in the stacks and ID it


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## Jon1270 (Jan 29, 2014)

Have you tried soaking some chips in water yet?

Another way to come at it, if you have a magnifying glass and a sharp knife, is to take a clean slice across the end grain so you can can get a good look at the grain structure.  Here are two pics taken from the relevant pages on wood-database.com:


Mulberry: 





Osage Orange:



The pores on mulberry are larger, more open and more evenly distributed throughout the growth rings, whereas the pores on Osage are smaller, bunched together in groups and sort of linked up in what look like small chains.


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## Firewood Bandit (Jan 29, 2014)

Your in Iowa so your in the range for Hedge.

Hedge grow real crooked, but makes a 100 year old fence post and will not rot.

The fruit that falls off a Hedge looks like "brains" and are the size of softballs.

When I was pheasant hunting I would see a lot of it, particularly in Southern Iowa.


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## brian89gp (Jan 29, 2014)

They do grow straight too.  I cut up a trunk that was about 25' long and 30" diameter at the bottom, slight curve since it was growing at a 45* angle but otherwise straight and branch free.


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## Applesister (Jan 29, 2014)

Based on Jons 2 micro photos and the picture of the rounds. Between the two I would say Osage. The micro pic shows ring porous wood and the growth rings were easily visible.
Thats the only clue I can wing/decipher.
But Im just waiting for the water test results.
I thought the bark on both Mulberry and Osage was deeply fissured like willow. But this wood is lesser so.???


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## Dogbyte (Jan 29, 2014)

if the water test comes back clear, what about redbud? dunno if they grow that big in the OP's area.


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## Jon1270 (Jan 29, 2014)

Applesister said:


> I thought the bark on both Mulberry and Osage was deeply fissured like willow. But this wood is lesser so.???



Depends on age.  The bark is smoother, the fissures shallower, on small/younger trees.


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## osagebow (Jan 29, 2014)

Second growth from a stump will also often be straighter / "younger" looking, with bigger growth rings. Great shots of the growth rings there, Jon!


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## Sinngetreu (Jan 29, 2014)

I put a few chips in a cup of water and after about a half an hour there seems to be the faintest yellow, but nothing too conclusive. I will keep everyone posted. 
The pores look like Osage, and the sap wood does look faint yellow, but the bark doesnt really have the orange that you might expect. 

Dogbyte, what is Redbud? Sounds like a hitchcock movie. 

I have seen the fruit of the hedge. I remember throwing it at other kids in elementary school. LOL


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## Coog (Jan 29, 2014)

I vote mulberry.  I just cut some up a couple of weeks ago.  If I saw the tree I could tell you for sure.  Osage is a darker yellow and mulberry is a bright yellow.

Either way, they are both yellow which is good for burning.


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## bsruther (Jan 30, 2014)

I can't say for certain, but it looks more like Osage to me. In the first pic posted, there's a log on the left where a branch grew into the trunk, this is very typical of Osage.
I have an Osage in the back yard that has the branches growing into the trunk, just like that. I've cut plenty of Mulberry and have them growing in the yard and have never seen them with branches formed together like that. I'm sure they can and do grow together on Mulberry, but it's not typical.
Another thing I see that makes me think it's Osage is in the pics of the splits showing many knots from branch formation. Osage will sprout branches randomly from the trunk or the middle of any large branch. I can't remember ever seeing a Mulberry sprout branches directly from the trunk.
I keep the lower branches trimmed on my Osages every spring and by the fall, new branches have formed next to where I cut the old ones. I have one Osage that looks like a Medusa from trimming it low and forcing the growth to the top of the tree.

The bark does kind of look like Mulberry, but I've seen plenty of Osage bark look like that. I find that Osage bark usually has an orange hue only at the base and on exposed roots.

The Osage in the middle of this pic has the trunk growing together like that. Sorry about the quality, but I ain't going up there in this cold to take a pic of a tree.


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## Paulywalnut (Jan 30, 2014)

Is there a sageberry? Hedgeapple and little berry get together.


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## Sinngetreu (Jan 30, 2014)

Well, it happened. I put a few small chips in water (expecting nothing) and today my glass of water looks like urine. Maybe its a pee tree? LOL


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## Sinngetreu (Feb 2, 2014)

An update on the wood: the water with the little bit of chips in it turned brownish orange and the wood stack outside is visibly darker. 
I picked up the rest of the tree on Tuesday which includes the base and it has unmistakable orange bark. I will take more pictures once I get well enough to do so. 
On another note, since I was sick, my wife was in charge of bring wood in. She decided to burn the samples that I brought in.  She said that she like them. Cant wait until she sees what its really capable of.


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## Applesister (Feb 3, 2014)

That is good to hear. A good test to decipher those two species. Ive read they are hard to tell apart. Not the trees but the wood. lol.


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## Applesister (Feb 3, 2014)

It was good of you Sinngetreu to follow up on your water test even though you have been under the weather. Thanks


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## Sinngetreu (Feb 3, 2014)

Applesister said:


> It was good of you Sinngetreu to follow up on your water test even though you have been under the weather. Thanks



Thanks, if it were Friday, there wasn't going to be a chance in Hades, but since then I have felt a little better. At least something like that keeps the mind off of the crud. I put the chips in water before I was sick and just happened to notice what it had done in two days and thought it was worth mentioning. 
Besides, I'm into this stuff and its nice to have people to share it with.


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## EMB5530 (Feb 8, 2014)

If you get the chance to see some of the smaller branches there should be thorns on Osage.

Oh yea Hello. I'm new here.

That is all I have on my property Osage Orange and Mulberry but its mainly small 15 year old stuff.


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## Sinngetreu (Feb 9, 2014)

EMB5530 said:


> If you get the chance to see some of the smaller branches there should be thorns on Osage.
> 
> Oh yea Hello. I'm new here.
> 
> That is all I have on my property Osage Orange and Mulberry but its mainly small 15 year old stuff.



Welcome  to the forum!
I didn't really get a chance to get a good look at the small branches, but now that its been sitting around for a week +, its definitely Osage. The heart wood turned a deep orange/brown color and I picked up a last little bit at the compost pile that included the base of the tree and it has the characteristic orange bark that gives it away. Also, the water with a few chips in it turned into a tea color after a few days. Its awesome stuff, I cant wait until it dries. 

Fun Fact: The one piece that I took inside and split did not turn dark orange, it stayed a rich yellow. Not sure about the science of that.


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## mliiiwit (Feb 25, 2014)

Sinngetreu said:


> Welcome  to the forum!
> I didn't really get a chance to get a good look at the small branches, but now that its been sitting around for a week +, its definitely Osage. The heart wood turned a deep orange/brown color and I picked up a last little bit at the compost pile that included the base of the tree and it has the characteristic orange bark that gives it away. Also, the water with a few chips in it turned into a tea color after a few days. Its awesome stuff, I cant wait until it dries.
> 
> Fun Fact: The one piece that I took inside and split did not turn dark orange, it stayed a rich yellow. Not sure about the science of that.


You'll find the same thing happens if you stand a freshly cut round on end.  A few days later the top end has darkened significantly but the end on the ground will still appear freshly cut.  I'm guessing oxidation (of whatever compound is the "yellow") from exposure to sunlight.


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## Sinngetreu (Feb 25, 2014)

mliiiwit said:


> You'll find the same thing happens if you stand a freshly cut round on end.  A few days later the top end has darkened significantly but the end on the ground will still appear freshly cut.  I'm guessing oxidation (of whatever compound is the "yellow") from exposure to sunlight.



I did notice that.  It's pretty interesting.


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## mliiiwit (Feb 25, 2014)

Sinngetreu said:


> I did notice that.  It's pretty interesting.


I'm burning some long dead OO right now that I cut in a dozed pile 2 days ago.  Even years after dead, it's still bright yellow just under the surface.  If you're ever in an area with OO and see what looks on the outside like completely worthless rotten wood, be sure to pick it up and judge its density.  Long dead OO that has taken on the worthless look described is the best firewood you can get for immediate burning.  It's unbelievable how shallow the deteriorated surface is on long-dead OO.  And it doesn't matter if it's sheltered or not.  If it's been dead for years and the bark and sapwood are gone - it's dry, as water simply does not penetrate into the heartwood.


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## HackBerry (Feb 26, 2014)

mliiiwit said:


> I'm burning some long dead OO right now that I cut in a dozed pile 2 days ago.  Even years after dead, it's still bright yellow just under the surface.  If you're ever in an area with OO and see what looks on the outside like completely worthless rotten wood, be sure to pick it up and judge its density.  Long dead OO that has taken on the worthless look described is the best firewood you can get for immediate burning.  It's unbelievable how shallow the deteriorated surface is on long-dead OO.  And it doesn't matter if it's sheltered or not.  If it's been dead for years and the bark and sapwood are gone - it's dry, as water simply does not penetrate into the heartwood.



I cut some long dead Osage that had holes bored all over the outside surface but the bugs never got past the outer layer. I split a piece near a crotch and a swarm of carpenter ants came pouring out. They weren't eating the wood but evidently overwintering in there. Any other species of wood on our farm with that many bore holes would have been a rotten punky mess on the inside. The Osage heartwood was solid as a rock and still mustard yellow when split. There are Osage fence posts on this farm, cut from the same hedge row, that are twice my age and still hard as a rock.


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## Missouri Frontier (Feb 27, 2014)

Hedge burns hot and that makes the wife happy. What makes the wife happy makes my life easier. Hedge makes my life easier. How is that for reasoning. I love Hedge firewood!


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## Osage (Feb 27, 2014)

D8Chumley said:


> This is encouraging. I had a tree growing in the yard that blew over in Sandy and it had the mustard heartwood. I didn't know what it was at the time but I'm thinking mulberry/osage now. I'll have to find it in the stacks and ID it


 
Hedge trees don't blow down, they are the Chuck Norris's of the tree world. Hurricanes go around them and blow down Oak's and other soft woods.


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## D8Chumley (Mar 2, 2014)

Osage said:


> Hedge trees don't blow down, they are the Chuck Norris's of the tree world. Hurricanes go around them and blow down Oak's and other soft woods.


It was Mulberry, and it uprooted. However there is a tree at the end of my road that appears to be OO and there are several broken limbs from where another tree fell on it. I will be getting those broken pieces as soon as the snow on the shoulder of the road is clear and I can get it safely


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## Osagebndr (Mar 2, 2014)

The stuff is tougher than woodpecker lips and burns steel bending hot. Best bow wood you can get also. Gotta love it


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## osagebow (Mar 2, 2014)

Osagebndr said:


> The stuff is tougher than woodpecker lips and burns steel bending hot. Best bow wood you can get also. Gotta love it


Nice tiller on that stick welcome to the board! Great guys on here, similar to the PA site


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## Sinngetreu (Mar 2, 2014)

I can honestly say as an archer, that I would love to make my own bow someday. Problem is not having enough time to do everything I want to do. I'm glad someone can do it though!


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## osagebow (Mar 2, 2014)

Sinngetreu said:


> I can honestly say as an archer, that I would love to make my own bow someday. Problem is not having enough time to do everything I want to do. I'm glad someone can do it though!




The Primitive Archer site will get ya there. - Cut a few staves and get them drying. Mine stay in the stove room in winter and attic in the summer. When someday comes you'll be ready!


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## Sinngetreu (Mar 2, 2014)

osagebow said:


> The Primitive Archer site will get ya there. - Cut a few staves and get them drying. Mine stay in the stove room in winter and attic in the summer. When someday comes you'll be ready!



Thanks! I'll look that one up! If I can find it again, I’m there!


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## Osagebndr (Mar 3, 2014)

Thanks osagebow for the welcome. Nice tiller on yours also, the one on my avatar is black locust, but we don't want to start a forum for another site, or do we? Lol . I like using the shavings from hedge to start my stove talk about quick and hot it'll do it everytime coals or not


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