# Strongly thinking about buying a Wood Gun



## Scotts Bum Wine (Mar 5, 2013)

Hello all-

  I have been reading this forum for ... about .... well ... oh Christmas .... a very long time now.   I have been searching for a suitable wood gasification boiler that will suit my needs and situation.  So far the Wood Gun E140 appears to fit my needs.  I had been leaning toward the Empyre Elite, but the recent thread about boiler rust made me do a little head scratching.  I looked further into my alternatives, and the Wood Gun stood out, based on some positive comments on this board and some nice videos from a fellow NY State resident, albeit a downstate one.  ;o)  I won't get into the weeds about how I arrived at my current preference.  What I would like is a pdf of a Wood Gun owner's manual.  I can find electronic owner's manuals for a variety of boilers online, but I have not been able to find one for the Wood Gun E140.  Would any of you fine Steam Heads have one that you could share?  I need to research everything down to the Nth degree before I will make a purchase.  Must be the engineer in me.  Plus the Kid is off to Duke this fall, so money is kinda tight.

Regards,
Scott


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## Gasifier (Mar 5, 2013)

Hmmm. Trying to remember if I got a CD with my wood gun? I will see what I can dig up for you Scott. I am not in downstate NY. That guy from the Island is a little strange if you ask me.   Hi Mike!  I am about as far North as you can get. And I like my E100 Wood Gun. Heating a house just over 4000 sq.ft., a 900 sq.ft. garage to 45 , and our Domestic Hot Water (DHW) for showers, dishes, and the like. With these temps in 20's and 30's I fill it once around 7pm and once around 7am. Nice. 

May I ask how much you are going to heat with it. And if you are planning storage?


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## Scotts Bum Wine (Mar 5, 2013)

You're heating all that with an E100?  Wow!  You're all the way up in the North Country too.  We certainly don't get as cold as you, here in the Ontario Lake Planes region between Rochester and Niagara Falls.  I bet an E100 would work for me as well.  I plan to heat a 2,600 SF Victorian (37 windows) and a 24 x 36 shop.  As far as storage goes, I will see what I can stuff through my cellar door.  I don't think any of those 500 gallon propane submarines will fit through, but maybe a few 100 gallon tanks will.  
Since I have your attention, Mr. Gasifier: can you run a Wood Gun pressurized?  I have looked all over, and I think the answer is yes, because I see pictures of systems with expansion tanks.  I like the idea of having a sealed system, and starving the water of rust causing oxygen.  My home has the original piping and radiators (pressurized), so it serves as a testimonial as to how long iron components will last in that type of system (100 years).
Also, if I can pick your nose a little more:  Have you found that you can burn larger pieces of wood in your Wood Gun?  In my business (heavy highway construction) I frequently get wood, but it is from big (what we used to call) wolf trees --- big honkin' trees from a dooryard or curb-lawn, where the grain is all gnarled up.  These trees don't readily split down to the "playing card" size required by some boilers, or at least w/o a lot of effort and waste.

Thanks,
Scott


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## mark123 (Mar 5, 2013)

The woodgun does run pressurized and it will burn anything any size you put in it, I routinely burn rounds that barely fit in the 14" door, Actutally mine likes big round wood better than small stuff.


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## CTFIRE (Mar 5, 2013)

hey scott whats your email? I will send you the pdf. Or you can call AHS and they will send it to you. I have a 140 and have been using it since December. If you get one, you will find a lot of great threads on the forum. Search Woodgun and Wood Gun separately. Also Gas is right about the guy from the Island . No doubt he will post shortly.


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## avc8130 (Mar 5, 2013)

Don't buy one.  20 years ago Wood Guns were pieces of shiite in one man's opinion.

ac


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## Gasifier (Mar 6, 2013)

Scotts Bum Wine said:


> You're heating all that with an E100? Wow! You're all the way up in the North Country too. We certainly don't get as cold as you, here in the Ontario Lake Planes region between Rochester and Niagara Falls. I bet an E100 would work for me as well. I plan to heat a 2,600 SF Victorian (37 windows) and a 24 x 36 shop. As far as storage goes, I will see what I can stuff through my cellar door. I don't think any of those 500 gallon propane submarines will fit through, but maybe a few 100 gallon tanks will.
> Since I have your attention, Mr. Gasifier: can you run a Wood Gun pressurized? I have looked all over, and I think the answer is yes, because I see pictures of systems with expansion tanks. I like the idea of having a sealed system, and starving the water of rust causing oxygen. My home has the original piping and radiators (pressurized), so it serves as a testimonial as to how long iron components will last in that type of system (100 years).
> Also, if I can pick your nose a little more: Have you found that you can burn larger pieces of wood in your Wood Gun? In my business (heavy highway construction) I frequently get wood, but it is from big (what we used to call) wolf trees --- big honkin' trees from a dooryard or curb-lawn, where the grain is all gnarled up. These trees don't readily split down to the "playing card" size required by some boilers, or at least w/o a lot of effort and waste.Thanks,Scott


 
Scott, I have 31 windows and 3 doors in my entire place including garage, plus the two garage doors. Some windows are new about 8 years ago. Some are original from 35 years ago when house was built. Some sections of house the insulation is good in. Some not so good. We have done some remodeling over the years. The garage has new closed cell spray foam insulation in walls and ceiling, so insulation is excellent. Some small leaks around the garage doors. Garage doors are steel, insulated and new about 5 or 6 years ago. I don't know where you are planning on installing your boiler, but much of the reason mine will heat this big house for the time that it does is it is in the basement. The boiler radiates off a lot of heat. The thermostate in the basement is always set at 60 degrees and it is usually 75 degrees down there. I think if I had to do it again though I would put the boiler in an attached building(garage) or an out building of it's own. Just so that all the wood was outside with the boiler. No mess in the house and no bugs. If I had done that then I would have had to go with the E140 to get long burn times. But, what I do is stay right after the mess. Everytime I move wood, I clean up any mess I make. About once a week I clean the boiler room. Keep these things in mind. I do not know how much experience you have with burning wood. But it is a lot of work. Especially if you start going through 10 full cord a year. (30 face cord in a full year, I heat my DHW year round with wood boiler now.) It is also some extra work to clean the boiler and the messes you make. Although I do not mind it. You will also need dry wood for a gassification boiler. You can not get your wood in the fall and start burning it that year with these boilers. Dry wood is better in any wood burner. The wood you burn should be cut/split/stacked and be outside for at least a year before you burn it. The best thing to do is get ahead at least a full year, a lot of guys on hearth get themselves to a point of being ahead two years or more. If you do not have your wood for next year, get it quick. Ash has a lower moisture content and dries fast because of it's straight grain. Get your entire supply for next year c/s/s by April or May and ready for next year so it can season. Even if you have to buy. Do you plan on buying some wood or c/s/s your own, or both. I c/s/s about 2/3 of mine and buy 1/3. Eventually hope to get to the point of c/s/s all of mine. The Wood Gun will burn larger pieces of wood, but it is best to split your wood smaller to let it season better, and this also helps your boiler to get and keep good gassification. It needs a good bed of coals to keep gassification going. So I would say split everything to 6 inches across. With my E100 I cut mine about 20-22 inches, some guys go with 24 inch. It will take wood up to 26 inches. I like a little room to move the wood a bit and the splitter I rent has a max length of 24 inches. Sorry about the novel.


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## Scotts Bum Wine (Mar 6, 2013)

Good morning all, and thank you for your responses to my questions.

Mark- It was good to hear that the Wood Gun will accept larger hunks of wood, if need be. I see from your signature that you have a stainless steel model. I was thinking about going with one of those. One quick question: What's "auto oil"? Is that a fuel oil burner?

Jason- Thank you for your offer to send a pdf of the owner's manual. I will send my email address to you through the board's messaging system. Don't want to get inundated with spam.

ac- There's a Wood Gun owners underground? Is that like the Mason's lodge? :D

Gasifier- Thank you for the lengthy post and all the information. I am planning on putting the boiler in my shop (out building), for the same reasons that you mentioned --- keep the mess and bugs outside.  I have heated both my home and shop with wood, coal (anthracite), and fuel oil, depending on what I could get cheaper, for 27 years.  I have four stoves and a boiler.  Well, coal has gotten to be off-the-charts expensive, and I do not see the price coming back down ever again, hence my interest in upgrading to a more modern wood heating system.  Then I can get rid of my plethora of stoves --- two coal and two wood.  I should have done this a year or more ago, because college tuition is placing a hurtin' on my bill-fold, so it might be a couple of years before I can make the investment.
It looks as though the Wood Gun has relatively simple off-the-shelf controls.  Is this correct?  Are there any areas on a Wood Gun which are a maintenance headache?  I saw some nozzle replacement posts on this board.  Are the replacement nozzles expensive?  Do you think the stainless steel upgrade is worth the extra money?  I saw a video online in which a Wood Gun owner said that there should be a couple of 90° bends in the flue pipe.  I have also seen some pictures on this board where it appears as though the flue pipe is running vertical.  Any opinion on that?  I would prefer to run mine vertical, as that would best fit in my shop.  Because of space limitations, I would like to put the storage in the house --- about 100' from the boiler.  Is this doable?  Do most people buy their boilers from a dealer, or directly from the factory in PA?  Do I ask a lot of questions?  

Thanks,
Scott


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## Gasifier (Mar 6, 2013)

If you can have your pipe go vertical all the way, I would say do it that way. I got rid of my horizontal runs and ran insulated stainless steel at about a 45 degree angle right after it comes out of the cyclone and that goes over to one short two foot section of horizontal that runs through the thimble in the wall and then the 90 clean out and up is all stainless steel insulated. So everything in insulated except a short adjustable 90 deg. black pipe fitting. I went with the stainless steel hull. I believe it is worth the extra money. Coming up soon is when AHS has there spring sale. You can usually get 10% off your boiler at that time of the year. I think they do it in March or April. Give them a call or check out the web site. 10% off regular price just about covers the extra cost of going stainless. Wood Gun has simple controls. The Wood Gun is a very simple boiler to clean. It takes about 15 minutes. All horizontal tubes that can be cleaned with the tool that comes with the boiler. Nozzle replacement for the E100 cost about $110. As far as the 90 deg. bends in the flue pipe go, I disagree. But that is just me. The reason they say you should have that is because most installations, I would think, go through the wall with a thimble or to a chimney. So they think you should have a couple of 90 deg. elbows so that you can take a cap off or a elbow out and then clean those sections of horizontal runs. But without horizontal runs, the pipe stays cleaner. You just have to be sure you check your ash cyclone often and make sure it is not plugged at the bottom. If it gets plugged, which is easy enough for it to happen, the ash can not fall down into the ash pan and then gets forced up the pipe by the fan. As with any wood burning appliance you should clean or have your chimney cleaned at least twice a year. And check it often. My chimney use to stay almost spotless with my wood stove I use to burn in. That was because stack temperatures were high. With the gassification boilers your stack temperatures are much lower with proper gassification and this can lead to a chimney that is less clean. Many variables effect this though. How long your run is, the moisture content of your wood, the type of wood you burn, what type of chimney you have, weather it is insulated or not, etc., etc. If you go directly vertical through your roof you obviously need to be certain it is done correctly because you have a hole in your roof. I am not a fan of holes in roofs, but as long as they are done correctly you should not have any problems. You will want to be sure your stack goes a healthy distance above your roof. The Wood Gun has a strong fan and you may end up with some embers coming out the top of your stack. Is your roof steel? You don't have a straw roof do you.


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## Scotts Bum Wine (Mar 6, 2013)

Straw roof!  HA!  That's funny.    No, the shop has a steel roof.  The chimney is Metalbestos triple-wall, goes straight up through the roof, and projects a few feet above the peak.  It draws very nicely.  Thanks for all the information and the heads-up on the AHS sale.

Scott


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## CTFIRE (Mar 6, 2013)

I don't think AHS sells the carbon steel anymore. Just SS


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## muncybob (Mar 6, 2013)

Scott, I'm not aware of any WG dealers...but then I also was not aware that all they sell now is SS 

A side note, I was recently in touch with a WG owner(also SS) and her unit is 20+ years old and still doing the job. I have to agree with Gas on the elimination of horizontal pipe a much sa possible, I didnt have much of an option there and life would be much easier w/o the run I have.

Auto mode is for units that have the oil burner attached. Oil is the most feasible back up for us so that's what we have although I probably have not burned much more than 20 gallons in the last 4 years. Come on down to see the WG in operation...we like wine!


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## avc8130 (Mar 6, 2013)

I have a manual oil backup on my Wood Gun.  I have yet to install the oil burner and hook it up.  My oil lines just kinda float unattached next to my boiler.  It makes me happy that way.

ac


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## Scotts Bum Wine (Mar 6, 2013)

Hi Muncybob-

  Thanks for the invite.  I might just take you up on that visit someday.    Are you in Centre County?  I lived there in the early 80's while at PSU.  
Not sure if you'd like my wine.  I'm not the best vintner, hence the name Bum Wine.  It can only be consumed from a paper bag while sitting under a bridge.  
Thanks for the news about the 20+ year Wood Gun owner.  That's what I like to hear.  If I am going to drop many thousands of dollars on a heating plant, then by golly I want it to last a long time.

Scott


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## Scotts Bum Wine (Mar 6, 2013)

ac-

  I agree --- not using fuel oil would make me happy too.  I think it is still over $4.00 per gallon here, which irritates me to some degree.  Gasoline is $3.90, and it comes off a higher lever of the cracking tower, plus the price includes road use taxes!

  I'm not sure if I would go with the oil backup or not.  I have a good oil boiler, which I will tie into the wood boiler.  The only advantage that I could see is to keep the wood boiler from freezing in the barn, if I decide to take a winter vacation.  But a small electric heater would probably take care of that.

Scott


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## muncybob (Mar 6, 2013)

Scott, we are not far away from State College...near Williamsport. Just got my PSU alumni credit card and ironiclly my first purchase was a spare set of center bricks from AHS.
We have a local winery we like and one of my favorites there is Beach Bum.


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## Scotts Bum Wine (Mar 6, 2013)

Gee, I'm guessing you might be near Muncy for some reason.    I drive through there, on I-180, a few times per year, on the way to-and-from NC.  It's a pretty area!  So you're a Nittany Lion too!  Small world.  I tried to get my daughter to go to old PSU, but they are tight with the financial aid these days, so she chose Duke Univ. instead.
I see AHS is in Chambersburg --- not too far off my beaten path --- maybe 7 hours from my home.

Scott


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## avc8130 (Mar 6, 2013)

Scotts Bum Wine said:


> ac-
> 
> I agree --- not using fuel oil would make me happy too. I think it is still over $4.00 per gallon here, which irritates me to some degree. Gasoline is $3.90, and it comes off a higher lever of the cracking tower, plus the price includes road use taxes!
> 
> ...


 
If you tie them together, you can use the oil burner in the house to prevent the WG from freezing in the barn.

ac


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## Scotts Bum Wine (Mar 6, 2013)

ac-

Good point!  I had not thought of using the oil boiler to keep the wood boiler warm while away.  Thanks!

Scott


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## Gasifier (Mar 6, 2013)

avc8130 said:


> If you tie them together, you can use the oil burner in the house to prevent the WG from freezing in the barn. ac


 
When you say tie them together AC, do you mean have them plumbed in series? If so, would it be better to plumb them parallel to each other for efficiency sake, so that the wood boiler wouldd not be heating the oil boiler when in normal use, and then have a valve or two that he could open/close so that when away he could warm the one in the barn? I am just trying to understand what you guys are thinking.


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## avc8130 (Mar 6, 2013)

Gasifier said:


> When you say tie them together AC, do you mean have them plumbed in series? If so, would it be better to plumb them parallel to each other for efficiency sake, so that the wood boiler wouldd not be heating the oil boiler when in normal use, and then have a valve or two that he could open/close so that when away he could warm the one in the barn? I am just trying to understand what you guys are thinking.


 
There are many options.

A lot of guys like to plumb them in series so the switch to oil backup is as easy at the original boiler control on the oil being set to ~140F.  Then the wood boiler normally keeps the oil boiler off by maintaining temps above that.   In the event of vacation, the oil boiler would then keep the wood boiler from freezing. 

Plumbing in parallel would increase theoretical efficiency, but would require a more complex control setup to be "automatic" for both backup and freeze prevention.

ac


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## mark123 (Mar 6, 2013)

Before you order it ask about all available options, I am glad I got the automatic shut down and cycle timer, I have talked to a few that wish they had known about these options. The auto oil simply turns on the oil burner when the wood goes out although in the 3 years I have had it I never used it. I did run the oil on manual for a week when I went to Cuba last winter. You can order it with any size door you want if you have large wood available, I think 14" is standard.


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## Scotts Bum Wine (Mar 6, 2013)

mark123-

  I'm glad you mentioned the options.  I will ask what upgrades are available when I decide to order.

  A lot of folks appear to have the smoke hood.  I'm thinking this must be a pretty good upgrade, even in a barn/shop?


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## mark123 (Mar 6, 2013)

You will need the smoke hood for sure.


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## arngnick (Mar 6, 2013)

Are you planning on running storage with the wood gun?


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## infinitymike (Mar 6, 2013)

Hey sorry for the delayed response guys.
I've been a little busy shooting some more promotional videos for the WoodGun.

WOOD  GUN!  WOOD  GUN!  WOOD GUN!  GOOOOOOO   WOOOOD GUUUN!


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## infinitymike (Mar 6, 2013)

Heres my take on Wood Gun owners, we are very honest people and share the LITTLE issues we have with our units.

I think the unit is great. It is so simple even and Islander can use it.


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## Scotts Bum Wine (Mar 7, 2013)

Hi Mike-

  Thanks for the response.  I have seen your videos.  Very informative.  That's how I got started considering a Wood Gun!

Scott


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## Scotts Bum Wine (Mar 7, 2013)

arngnick-

 Yes, I would like to incorporate some storage into my system.  What I can get through the cellar door, and down the stairs, will dictate how much.

Scott


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## CTFIRE (Mar 7, 2013)

Scotts Bum Wine said:


> Hi Mike-
> 
> Thanks for the response. I have seen your videos. Very informative. That's how I got started considering a Wood Gun!
> 
> Scott


He will shoot movies on demand if you ask nicely


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## infinitymike (Mar 7, 2013)

CTFIRE said:


> He will shoot movies on demand if you ask nicely


Do you have any requests?


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## arngnick (Mar 7, 2013)

I am not saying anything against the woodgun it obviously does the job and does it well most of the time but what other options have you considerd? In my opinion I do not see the woodgun as the first option UNLESS you are planning on not using storage or idling more than one should. I am just going byt the 2 different wood boilers that I have used, the many I have looked at and researched, and the plethera of info on this site.

Edit: Let me add I do not think it is nesasarily a bad option...


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## muncybob (Mar 7, 2013)

arngnick said:


> I am not saying anything against the woodgun it obviously does the job and does it well most of the time but what other options have you considerd? In my opinion I do not see the woodgun as the first option UNLESS you are planning on not using storage or idling more than one should. I am just going byt the 2 different wood boilers that I have used, the many I have looked at and researched, and the plethera of info on this site.
> 
> Edit: Let me add I do not think it is nesasarily a bad option...


 
Nothing wrong with this statement..there are MANY choices out there. For me the lack of space for storage and the opening into my basement narrowed down the field to 2 units. If I had a large entry to the basement and if I had enough room for storage I can't say if the WG would have been purchased. Take your time and weigh all the pro's/cons...with the advances made in today's boilers and the help of the good folks here I'm sure you'll be happy in the long run.


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## mark123 (Mar 7, 2013)

I really can't understand why anyone would bother with storage. Yes it may burn more efficiently, a little less wood but for me not having to relight a fire all the time is a big advantage, I light my boiler once over the whole winter. and I heat 4000SF with 8 cord of maple which cost me $880.00. I load the boiler 2 or 3 times per day.


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## infinitymike (Mar 7, 2013)

arngnick said:


> I am not saying anything against the woodgun



Thank you for not doing that. We already have someone who feels the need to bash the WG with every opportunity.


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## Woodsrover (Mar 7, 2013)

I'm a one-year Woodgunner and couldn't be happier.  It takes a few weeks to figure out how these things like to work and the little tricks that make them work well for your application, but once you get through that the rest it gravy.  Anyone who owns one will tell you there's a learning curve that can be frustrating.  Once you've got it figured out, you'll love it.  I empty my ash pan twice a week, rake the lower tubes out once every two or three weeks and fill it with wood twice a day.  That's it.  It just runs and does what its built to do with no fanfare, no fuss, no whistles and bells.  Its a simple old-school machine.

They only make the SS models now.  They've come out with a newer fancier control system that I hope is an option.  I like the old, simple controls, aquastats, etc.

I can see the advantage of storage but for me it wouldn't be worth it.  The savings in wood doesn't matter to me as its free and right outside the back door.  I have the optional cycle timer and the boiler keeps itself warm and keeps the fire going.  As others have said, get the optional smoke hood too.  Well worth it.

My WG is plumbed in series with my propane boiler so if it does run out the propane takes over.  I've just turned the stat on the propane boiler to its lowest limit, 140 degrees.  Unless the boiler drops below that from a lost fire it doesn't light, but still controls all the circulators.


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## infinitymike (Mar 7, 2013)

Woodsrover said:


> I'm a one-year Woodgunner and couldn't be happier.  It takes a few weeks to figure out how these things like to work and the little tricks that make them work well for your application, but once you get through that the rest it gravy.  Anyone who owns one will tell you there's a learning curve that can be frustrating.  Once you've got it figured out, you'll love it.  I empty my ash pan twice a week, rake the lower tubes out once every two or three weeks and fill it with wood twice a day.  That's it.  It just runs and does what its built to do with no fanfare, no fuss, no whistles and bells.  Its a simple old-school machine.



Well said. Exactly what I've doing. It did take a while to get in a rhythm , but that will happen with ANY machine you get.


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## Coal Reaper (Mar 7, 2013)

mark123 said:


> I really can't understand why anyone would bother with storage. Yes it may burn more efficiently, a little less wood but for me not having to relight a fire all the time is a big advantage, I light my boiler once over the whole winter. and I heat 4000SF with 8 cord of maple which cost me $880.00. I load the boiler 2 or 3 times per day.


 
 somebody who wanted to heat DHW through the summer with wood.  i wouldnt want a WG cranking all summer to get DHW, especially in a basement when you are typically trying to cool the house.

i agree the WG claim to fame is the ability to operate almost as efficiently when cycling vs. running full out.  if you are planing on installing storage anyway, then you open up many more boiler options for yourself.  if storage is not an option for your particular setup, then i believe WG is a VERY strong contender for the boiler of choice.


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## infinitymike (Mar 7, 2013)

Coal Reaper said:


> somebody who wanted to heat DHW through the summer with wood.  i wouldnt want a WG cranking all summer to get DHW, especially in a basement when you are typically trying to cool the house.
> 
> i agree the WG claim to fame is the ability to operate almost as efficiently when cycling vs. running full out.  if you are planing on installing storage anyway, then you open up many more boiler options for yourself.  if storage is not an option for your particular setup, then i believe WG is a VERY strong contender for the boiler of choice.



This will be my first summer in attempting to heat my DHW, I just got the indirect hooked up a few months ago.
I am real fortunate to have the unit in my attached garage, any heat will not effect my house. 
Im sure there will be a huge learning curve without storage.
It will come down to timing and planning.


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## mark123 (Mar 7, 2013)

I heat all my domestic all year round with the woodgun, i the summer I light a fire with 3 or 4  spruce rounds ( I have 25 acres of spruce outside my door for free) at 6am and then go to work, my wife switches the "start" over to "run" an hour or so later and that is it until the next morning, that produces enough hot water for the 4 of us until the next day and with the low temp shut down you don't have to think about it again. I stuffed fiberglass insulation under the boiler as well to help hold the heat in.


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## avc8130 (Mar 7, 2013)

mark123 said:


> I heat all my domestic all year round with the woodgun, i the summer I light a fire with 3 or 4 spruce rounds ( I have 25 acres of spruce outside my door for free) at 6am and then go to work, my wife switches the "start" over to "run" an hour or so later and that is it until the next morning, that produces enough hot water for the 4 of us until the next day and with the low temp shut down you don't have to think about it again. I stuffed fiberglass insulation under the boiler as well to help hold the heat in.


 
I've thought about that with my 180.  What means do you use to heat hot water?  Indirect?


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## Scotts Bum Wine (Mar 7, 2013)

So far, I am open to other boiler options.  I have been reading threads on this forum since last summer, and my interest has pointed in one direction or another throughout that time.  The Wood Gun is appealing to me for a few reasons:

- It is built out of stainless steel.
- I can use my existing 6" chimney.
- The firebox can accept (and work with) larger pieces of wood --- as I explained earlier in this thread.
- The boiler apparently works OK with a small amount of storage.  I have limited space for that --- some, but not a lot.
- I like the simple off-the-shelf controls.  Nothing becomes obsolete faster than electronics.
- In searching through this forum, I have not read about too many people having problems.  Most owners seem to be happy, and are not grumbling about rust or creosote buildup, etc.
- AHS has been building Wood Guns for a long time, here in the US, in neighboring Pennsylvania.
- The WG runs pressurized, so it is easier to incorporate into my existing forced hot water heating plant.

I have looked at a lot of wood gasification boilers in the last several months, and will continue to look at more --- keeping my options open.  But, so far, Wood Gun has more checks on the positive side of my ledger.

Thank you all for your help and input.  
Scott


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## mark123 (Mar 7, 2013)

I just have the domestic coil option in the woodgun.


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## avc8130 (Mar 7, 2013)

Scott,

Sounds like most of the reasons current WG owners bought theirs. 

There are issues.  If you search you will find the WG has some operation quirks that you learn to live with.  I find that changes to my habits can operate around most of these quirks.  Most of my issues have been due to laziness on my part. 

Back-puffing with the cycle timer is the only issue that isn't completely resolved in my opinion, and over the course of the summer I plan to design a very simple solution that will prevent that once and for all.

ac


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## avc8130 (Mar 7, 2013)

mark123 said:


> I just have the domestic coil option in the woodgun.


 

Really?!?!?!

And with 1 fire you are able to get 4 people's worth of DHW.  That is awesome. 

I have an indirect that holds 41 gallons.  With the ~80 gallon capacity of my 180 I am considering attempting to heat DHW through the summer in the same manner you do. 

I also have an electric water heater.  With a little replumbing I could probably create a reservoir of ~90 gallons of DHW at ~150F and a boiler at 200F ready to recharge.

ac


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## muncybob (Mar 7, 2013)

avc8130 said:


> Scott,
> 
> Back-puffing with the cycle timer is the only issue that isn't completely resolved in my opinion, and over the course of the summer I plan to design a very simple solution that will prevent that once and for all.
> 
> ac


.....looking forward to hearing about it's success!


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## mikefrommaine (Mar 7, 2013)

Scotts Bum Wine said:


> So far, I am open to other boiler options.  I have been reading threads on this forum since last summer, and my interest has pointed in one direction or another throughout that time.  The Wood Gun is appealing to me for a few reasons:
> 
> - It is built out of stainless steel.
> - I can use my existing 6" chimney.
> ...



At the risk of being chastised by the wood gunners, don't worry I can take it. Here is my 3 cents (inflation).

I was looking for a boiler a few years ago. My existing 6" flue ruled out many brands. The varm's were very new to the market here and the local tarm dealer seems more geared to retail customers looking for a complete install package. So that left the biomass boiler I chose and the woodgun.

I believe the woodgun is now made out of stainless steel because in the past they experienced a lot of rusting and rotting of their boilers. Their operational strategy of no storage and extended idle times most likely the source of the failures. Obviously ss will prolong the life of the boiler. But you are paying a premium for ss. Money which could be used to add storage to a typical boiler plate down draft gasser.

I've never seen a ss woodstove. And the only ss boilers other than the wood gun I've seen are condensing wall hung boilers. Perhaps the ss is the source of the wet ashes in the cyclone phenomenon?

The off the shelf controls was a strong selling point in my mind. But some WG boilers now have digital controllers.  In the end I decided it wasnt a big deal. If my controller becomes obsolete and unavailable I could always retrofit a similar control strategy like the vintage WG boilers.

And the final downside I saw was the smoke problem. Pretty much any brand of boiler will smoke when you reload with a fire still going. WG fixes this problem with an optional smoke hood, not sure how well this works as I've never seen one in person. If you don't have storage there will be times when you have to reload with a fire going or risk having a cold house.

In the end I went with the biomass 60 with storage. It has a large firebox (30" sticks) and a 6" flue. It's made of boilerplate steel which I see as having the best characteristics for a boile. And it was substantially less money. Honestly I think you'd be happy with any of the major brands. If you don't have room for storage and don't want to put the boiler in a shed a WG is not a bad choice.


----------



## Fred61 (Mar 7, 2013)

Recently someone on this forum realized that all EKO s had an 8 inch flue and concluded that they are just using the same flue on every size boiler from the 25 thru the 80 just like they are using the same input and output water lines on all sizes of boilers. I'm too old to fumble with making a video but if I remember I will open the door on my eko at full burn this evening and snap a photo so you can see how much smoke is coming out into the room. I only have a six inch stainless flue about 20 feet tall.


----------



## Scotts Bum Wine (Mar 7, 2013)

Mike-

  You did hit on one point that I do not like about the Wood Gun, that being price.  Boy they don't give those away, do they?

  I looked at the BioMass boilers from New Horizon.  Their data did not indicate whether or not they can deal with larger pieces of wood.  The price is certainly attractive.  Now, being a bio-mass boiler, have you burned stuff other than wood in yours?  Their specs read "Corn Cobs with Kernels, 50% of Coal, Saw Dust, Wood Chips (50%), any kind of pellets".  I don't read about too many people using anything but wood.  Certainly, being able to heat my home with relatively easy to obtain waist items would be a plus.

Scott


----------



## avc8130 (Mar 7, 2013)

Scotts Bum Wine said:


> Mike-
> 
> You did hit on one point that I do not like about the Wood Gun, that being price. Boy they don't give those away, do they?
> 
> ...


 
Scott,

The price of the WG is high.  However, all of the components are of high quality.  Honeywell, Dayton, Riello, etc.  The commercial components chosen are all industry standard for their high quality.  The boiler is SS, so that inherently costs more.  They went SS because the boiler condenses in the wood chamber during periods of inactivity.  No way around that.  US labor in PA certainly doesn't help their cost either.  Just from a weight perspective, the WG weighs in at 1000+ lbs for the smallest models.  Most other manufacturer's boilers weigh 400-600.  More weight=more cost. I'm not saying it's better, just more expensive for reasons.

With that, when I priced my WG I could have had an E100 in SS for ~$7k.  Most of the other boilers I priced of similar size weren't 50% cheaper, 10-15% was more like it.

ac


----------



## CTFIRE (Mar 7, 2013)

avc8130 said:


> Scott,
> 
> The price of the WG is high. However, all of the components are of high quality. Honeywell, Dayton, Riello, etc. The commercial components chosen are all industry standard for their high quality. The boiler is SS, so that inherently costs more. They went SS because the boiler condenses in the wood chamber during periods of inactivity. No way around that. US labor in PA certainly doesn't help their cost either. Just from a weight perspective, the WG weighs in at 1000+ lbs for the smallest models. Most other manufacturer's boilers weigh 400-600. More weight=more cost. I'm not saying it's better, just more expensive for reasons.
> 
> ...


I was paying $4 gal for oil @ 1200 gals last year and my house was cold. I bought the E140 with auto oil for just over $11K. Less than 3 year pay back and I expect to get 20 years out of it. Easy math for me on ROI


----------



## Scotts Bum Wine (Mar 7, 2013)

Fred61-

  My flue is 6" and about 20' tall as well, but (after looking at the EKO data) I think I would need an EKO 40 to cover my BTU needs.  You are running an EKO 25, according to your signature.  Thank you for the offer of a picture, but I think I would need to hear from an EKO 40 user who has necked the flue down to 6 inches.

Thanks,
Scott


----------



## Fred61 (Mar 7, 2013)

avc8130 said:


> Scott,
> 
> The price of the WG is high. However, all of the components are of high quality. Honeywell, Dayton, Riello, etc. The commercial components chosen are all industry standard for their high quality. The boiler is SS, so that inherently costs more. They went SS because the boiler condenses in the wood chamber during periods of inactivity. No way around that. US labor in PA certainly doesn't help their cost either. Just from a weight perspective, the WG weighs in at 1000+ lbs for the smallest models. Most other manufacturer's boilers weigh 400-600. More weight=more cost. I'm not saying it's better, just more expensive for reasons.
> 
> ...


 Never thought about buying boilers by the pound. I know my EKO weighed too doggone much but if you look ad it on a per pound basis, I got a good deal. I think Mark said it weighed somewhere between 1200 and1500 pounds.
I would have bought the Biomass if they had offered a smaller unit. I, however, cannot complain about the EKO. 5 years and no problems.


----------



## avc8130 (Mar 7, 2013)

Fred61 said:


> Never thought about buying boilers by the pound. I know my EKO weighed too doggone much but if you look ad it on a per pound basis, I got a good deal. I think Mark said it weighed somewhere between 1200 and1500 pounds.
> I would have bought the Biomass if they had offered a smaller unit. I, however, cannot complain about the EKO. 5 years and no problems.


 
Like I said, I wasn't saying heavier was better...


----------



## Fred61 (Mar 7, 2013)

Scotts Bum Wine said:


> Fred61-
> 
> My flue is 6" and about 20' tall as well, but (after looking at the EKO data) I think I would need an EKO 40 to cover my BTU needs. You are running an EKO 25, according to your signature. Thank you for the offer of a picture, but I think I would need to hear from an EKO 40 user who has necked the flue down to 6 inches.
> 
> ...


 The nozzles are all the same size on the EKOs. The 25 and the 40 each have a single nozzle so exhaust should be about the same, The difference is the wood capacity and the area of the heat exchanger tubes. I'm no  expert but based on the way my stack draws I'm pretty confident  that it could handle the 40.


----------



## Scotts Bum Wine (Mar 7, 2013)

ac-

  Yes, I did notice the weight differential between a Wood Gun and some of the other brands.  Believe me when I tell you that I am well aware of the cost of steel and labor in the US.  I have been building movable bridges in NY State for 30 years.  Often times solid construction equates to longevity --- not always, but it can be a good indicator.  Industry standard controls, too, are a good gauge of how long a machine will last and it's serviceability down the road.  
  Also, I am not afraid to spend the long-buck on an item that promises to give me many years of use.  I have done so with cars, trucks, lawnmowers, and even chainsaws.  My wife says I have expensive tastes in machines, but I research and find out what lasts.  So far the Wood Gun folks seem to be boasting of the longest lasting wood gasification boilers.  
  If I were to buy a boiler that leaks some smoke --- for me --- that is no big issue.  The boiler will be going in my barn, where I do a lot of welding and have a large exhaust fan.

Scott


----------



## Fred61 (Mar 7, 2013)

Scotts Bum Wine said:


> ac-
> 
> Yes, I did notice the weight differential between a Wood Gun and some of the other brands. Believe me when I tell you that I am well aware of the cost of steel and labor in the US. I have been building movable bridges in NY State for 30 years. Often times solid construction equates to longevity --- not always, but it can be a good indicator. Industry standard controls, too, are a good gauge of how long a machine will last and it's serviceability down the road.
> Also, I am not afraid to spend the long-buck on an item that promises to give me many years of use. I have done so with cars, trucks, lawnmowers, and even chainsaws. My wife says I have expensive tastes in machines, but I research and find out what lasts. So far the Wood Gun folks seem to be boasting of the longest lasting wood gasification boilers.
> ...


 FYI: I sent my Wood Gun to the junkyard after 8.5 years.

Anyhow Lk Burning like hell----------No smoke!


----------



## Fred61 (Mar 7, 2013)

A couple more pics


----------



## mikefrommaine (Mar 7, 2013)

The WG has a large refractory that contributes to its weight.


----------



## Scotts Bum Wine (Mar 7, 2013)

Fred61-

  That does look nice and smoke free. Do you find that your EKO is fussy about wood size and shape?


----------



## mikefrommaine (Mar 7, 2013)

Based on those pics from Fred I'd say I split my wood to the same size. About what an average woodstove would take. As long as the wood is dry you can go a little bigger or smaller. Not too picky. I just load the smallest splits first and the bigger ones on top


----------



## avc8130 (Mar 7, 2013)

Fred,

That EKO have a bypass?  That is one improvement the WG could certainly benefit from, but I don't know how they could do it with the current swirl chamber + cyclone design.  With the smoke hood the smoke is sent outside, but it requires separate ducting and certainly isn't as convenient to install as a boiler with the bypass.

ac


----------



## avc8130 (Mar 7, 2013)

Scotts Bum Wine said:


> Fred61-
> 
> That does look nice and smoke free. Do you find that your EKO is fussy about wood size and shape?


 
FWIW the wood shown in those pictures would be considered "kindling" to my Wood Gun.

ac


----------



## avc8130 (Mar 7, 2013)

Fred61 said:


> FYI: I sent my Wood Gun to the junkyard after 8.5 years.


 

Exactly, and it was worth more in scrap than a lighter weight boiler would have been


----------



## Fred61 (Mar 7, 2013)

avc8130 said:


> Exactly, and it was worth more in scrap than a lighter weight boiler would have been


 I should get a price on scrap refractory cement. I just gave it to the scrap guy. He came and picked it up with one of those slide back auto flatbeds and winched it on.
I do regret one thing. In my celebration to be free of that weight I neglected to salvage the motors, controls and domestic coil.


----------



## Fred61 (Mar 7, 2013)

avc8130 said:


> Fred,
> 
> That EKO have a bypass? That is one improvement the WG could certainly benefit from, but I don't know how they could do it with the current swirl chamber + cyclone design. With the smoke hood the smoke is sent outside, but it requires separate ducting and certainly isn't as convenient to install as a boiler with the bypass.
> 
> ac


 Being forced draft, it is necessary to have a bypass. With the air velocity in the Wood Gun, can you imagine it without a cyclone. You wouldn't have any ashes to dump.
I don't shut off my draft fan when I open the Eko.


----------



## Fred61 (Mar 7, 2013)

Scotts Bum Wine said:


> Fred61-
> 
> That does look nice and smoke free. Do you find that your EKO is fussy about wood size and shape?


 I would say that most if not all gassers are happier with smaller splits. That load you saw in the photos would have been the smallest splits on the wood cart since It was the first few pieces I load when starting a new fire. The next three or four splits I added were larger.
Any gasser needs alot of surface in order to maintain a good coal bed so it will continue to gas. If the wood is too large or too wet your coal bed will burn away before the wood load produces more to replace it. Thats when you get bridging


----------



## Scotts Bum Wine (Mar 7, 2013)

Fred-
  You and Mike both talked about loading your boilers with splits.  Does the wood have to be split, or can similar diameter limb wood be used?


----------



## Fred61 (Mar 7, 2013)

Scotts Bum Wine said:


> Fred-
> You and Mike both talked about loading your boilers with splits. Does the wood have to be split, or can similar diameter limb wood be used?


 You can use "rounds" but you'll soon learn that wood that is not split can take three years to bring the moisture to the correct level for a gasser. When I am stacking rounds, I run the tip of the chain saw down the length of the piece making a cut the depth of the bark. this makes a huge difference in drying time. Some wood with more waterproof bark such as birch or cherry can even rot inside of it's own bark before it dries if it doesn't get good air flow.


----------



## avc8130 (Mar 7, 2013)

[quote="Fred61, post: 1401040, member: 8462"In my celebration to be free of that weight I neglected to salvage the motors, controls and domestic coil.[/quote]

Yup, that was dumb. You could use them when your controller overheats and fails.

Are you missing a cover over the fan?


----------



## avc8130 (Mar 7, 2013)

Fred61 said:


> Being forced draft, it is necessary to have a bypass. With the air velocity in the Wood Gun, can you imagine it without a cyclone. You wouldn't have any ashes to dump.
> I don't shut off my draft fan when I open the Eko.


 
Yeah, that is consistent with the Vedo 37 I checked out under operation.  Nice design that looks very similar in function to the EKO, but MUCH easier to clean.

ac


----------



## avc8130 (Mar 7, 2013)

I just saw something.  This thread is stupid now.  For this deal this is a no-brainer:

http://www.newhorizonstore.com/Products/88-eko-gasification-boiler.aspx

$4149 shipped to your door for the best boiler ever built!

ac


----------



## Scotts Bum Wine (Mar 7, 2013)

Fred-

  Good tip about slitting the bark on limb wood.  I have had a lot of cherry rot inside it's bark, as I am in orchard country here.  Most of the time I don't even bother with it, other than for smoking meat.


----------



## Fred61 (Mar 7, 2013)

avc8130 said:


> [quote="Fred61, post: 1401040, member: 8462"In my celebration to be free of that weight I neglected to salvage the motors, controls and domestic coil.


 
Yup, that was dumb. You could use them when your controller overheats and fails.

Are you missing a cover over the fan?[/quote]
 I can run my boiler without the controller since I use a solar controller which gave me more control like differential temp between boiler and storage and better temperature spread. My controller is basically an off--on switch.
I just removed the cover a couple weeks ago because I'm into some 4 year old wood which measures about 9 to10 percent moisture. When the fire gets real hot it burns so fast that I was getting a Wooosh every 10 seconds or so. I'm starting the fire and when it gets going real well I've been closing the air way down to slow down the burn.


----------



## velvetfoot (Mar 7, 2013)

$3890 for a 25kW unit.
Are they grey now, vs. green and white?


----------



## avc8130 (Mar 7, 2013)

I can run my boiler without the controller since I use a solar controller which gave me more control like differential temp between boiler and storage and better temperature spread. My controller is basically an off--on switch.
I just removed the cover a couple weeks ago because I'm into some 4 year old wood which measures about 9 to10 percent moisture. When the fire gets real hot it burns so fast that I was getting a Wooosh every 10 seconds or so. I'm starting the fire and when it gets going real well I've been closing the air way down to slow down the burn.[/quote]

That makes sense.  Sounds like "chugging". 

That's pretty sick moisture content.  Congrats on being FAR ahead on your wood supply!

ac


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## Fred61 (Mar 7, 2013)

I didn't want to call it chugging because it isn't like any chugging I had experienced or like any descriptinns of chugging described to me by others although it may be the same thing. Imagind a woosh every 10 seconds. not as short term as chugging.


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## mikefrommaine (Mar 7, 2013)

avc8130 said:


> I just saw something.  This thread is stupid now.  For this deal this is a no-brainer:
> 
> http://www.newhorizonstore.com/Products/88-eko-gasification-boiler.aspx
> 
> ...



It's showing 5380 for the 40.  Sales must have spiked after your endorsement.


----------



## avc8130 (Mar 7, 2013)

mikefrommaine said:


> It's showing 5380 for the 40. Sales must have spiked after your endorsement.


 
?

25 is $3890 + $259 = $4149


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## mikefrommaine (Mar 7, 2013)

avc8130 said:


> ?
> 
> 25 is $3890 + $259 = $4149



I missed the shipping, it used to be included.


----------



## avc8130 (Mar 7, 2013)

mikefrommaine said:


> I missed the shipping, it used to be included.


 
For some reason shipping for the boiler on sale is more expensive than for the others.


----------



## arngnick (Mar 8, 2013)

mark123 said:


> I really can't understand why anyone would bother with storage. Yes it may burn more efficiently, a little less wood but for me not having to relight a fire all the time is a big advantage, I light my boiler once over the whole winter. and I heat 4000SF with 8 cord of maple which cost me $880.00. I load the boiler 2 or 3 times per day.


 
I origionally thought the exact same thing but lighting a fire and loading my unit litterally takes 5 mins. 8 if I need to do a little extra cleaining and I am confident that it will burn once I leave. I would have never consitered batch burning with my other because it took a while to get a fire going.


----------



## maple1 (Mar 8, 2013)

mark123 said:


> I really can't understand why anyone would bother with storage. Yes it may burn more efficiently, a little less wood but for me not having to relight a fire all the time is a big advantage, I light my boiler once over the whole winter. and I heat 4000SF with 8 cord of maple which cost me $880.00. I load the boiler 2 or 3 times per day.


 
Storage is a big plus for me, it lets me go without even looking at the boiler until the evenings. No more tending it first thing in the morning to avoid the oil burner cutting in. It is a bit more hassle having to light a fire every day, compared to my old one that I lit once in the fall - but I am much more happy not having to keep feeding the boiler when I really don't want to (like as soon as I get out of bed) so the fire won't go out. I wouldn't go back to my old way for love or money - but everyones preferences are different.


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## avc8130 (Mar 8, 2013)

maple1 said:


> Storage is a big plus for me, it lets me go without even looking at the boiler until the evenings. No more tending it first thing in the morning to avoid the oil burner cutting in. It is a bit more hassle having to light a fire every day, compared to my old one that I lit once in the fall - but I am much more happy not having to keep feeding the boiler when I really don't want to (like as soon as I get out of bed) so the fire won't go out. I wouldn't go back to my old way for love or money - but everyones preferences are different.


 
I have yet to hear of a person UNHAPPY with storage.

ac


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## Scotts Bum Wine (Mar 8, 2013)

Who can boast having the oldest wood gasification boiler?  What would that be?

Scott


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## mikefrommaine (Mar 8, 2013)

hobbyheater has a 30 year old jetstream. Search for jetstream, kerr, titan, madawaska boilers fmi.

The woodgun was a descendent of those boilers. The garn came soon after.


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## Fred61 (Mar 8, 2013)

I installed my Wood Gun in 1980 but unfortunately it had eaten itself up by 1988.
I don't know what was available in the gasser line back then but I looked at the Essex and I was immediately scared away. The demo unit was already having problems with deterrorating refractory and it had all kinds of unrecognizable hardware hanging on it. It was a scarey beast.
Can I assume you are asking the question in order to gauge which boiler will have the longest life?


----------



## Scotts Bum Wine (Mar 8, 2013)

Well, yes.  A lot of folks love their particular brand of boiler, and like to encourage others to buy the same kind.  I know how that is.  I have done the same thing with cars.  I am 50 years old.  I have maybe 30 years on this earth remaining, at best, considering my heritage.  Efficiency is not the top priority, but years of service-life is.  That's why I reluctantly switched from Chevy trucks over to Toyotas.  They last longer.  I understand that soliciting opinions off a web-board is purely anecdotal, but Consumer Reports has yet to do long term studies on the reliability of wood gasification boilers. 

Scott


----------



## Blue Tornado (Mar 8, 2013)

The price of the EKO 25 was too hard to resist. Cost to me delivered was 4,085. The savings will go towards storage. Where else can ya get into gasification for under 5 grand?

Cripes a guy could get two and save the second for twenty years down the road.

And there is a lightly used garn posted for sale on this site. It is in Wisconson.


----------



## Scotts Bum Wine (Mar 8, 2013)

Good point!


----------



## avc8130 (Mar 8, 2013)

Another thing to consider:  If you are 50, and you plan to live 30 more years, how many of those years do you REALLY plan on C/S/S wood and loading a boiler?  You might not realistically need or WANT your boiler to last 30 years.

ac


----------



## Fred61 (Mar 8, 2013)

Scotts Bum Wine said:


> Well, yes. A lot of folks love their particular brand of boiler, and like to encourage others to buy the same kind. I know how that is. I have done the same thing with cars. I am 50 years old. I have maybe 30 years on this earth remaining, at best, considering my heritage. Efficiency is not the top priority, but years of service-life is. That's why I reluctantly switched from Chevy trucks over to Toyotas. They last longer. I understand that soliciting opinions off a web-board is purely anecdotal, but Consumer Reports has yet to do long term studies on the reliability of wood gasification boilers.
> 
> Scott


 As you are undoubtedly aware, longevity and servicability of ones equipment has as much to do with the operator as it does with the equipment's quality and engineering.  Most of my stuff is still in "new" condition after 20 years. I  have a brother-in-law that will ruin any piece of equipment in six months to one year. There are some things that are beyond your control regardless what is done to keep your machinery servicable.

I probably shouldn't be talking here given the short life I got out of my Wood Gun. You probably have read of some of my misfortunes but the "coup-de-gras" that actually shut me down was the firebox that became so thin and porous that it would not hold water. I understand that problem has been addressed by going to stainless. Unfortunately some of the other problems that plagued me can only be cured by major re-design which would make the Wood Gun a totally different animal.


----------



## Scotts Bum Wine (Mar 8, 2013)

ac-

  This is true.  Heating my home/shop with wood and coal for the last 27 years has made me healthier than most guys my age (I like to think) --- tendinitis notwithstanding.  Installing a wood boiler in a location where I can heat both structures, and load wood less frequently than I do now will help power me into my golden years.  At least that's how I have it played out in my little pea brain.  We'll see.  If the heating plant lasts 30 years, and my mushy old frame doesn't, then my daughter can sell this old barn of a house with a solid working wood heater.  Suffice it to say, it is disheartening to have to replace something, when you thought you would never have to deal with it again.


----------



## avc8130 (Mar 8, 2013)

Scotts Bum Wine said:


> ac-
> 
> This is true. Heating my home/shop with wood and coal for the last 27 years has made me healthier than most guys my age (I like to think) --- tendinitis notwithstanding. Installing a wood boiler in a location where I can heat both structures, and load wood less frequently than I do now will help power me into my golden years. At least that's how I have it played out in my little pea brain. We'll see. If the heating plant lasts 30 years, and my mushy old frame doesn't, then my daughter can sell this old barn of a house with a solid working wood heater. Suffice it to say, it is disheartening to have to replace something, when you thought you would never have to deal with it again.


 
Sound logic.

Before you go buying ANY boiler, have you dont a heat loss calc to know just how much heat you NEED?


----------



## Scotts Bum Wine (Mar 8, 2013)

Fred61-

  I was wondering what had happened to your Wood Gun.  You are so right when you speak of the operator's care in running his machine.  This is very true in the construction industry.  As I said earlier, there can be a lot of variables in how mush serviceability one can get out of a machine.  Asking opinions on a web board is anything but scientific, but it is all I have to go on.  I appreciate hearing everybody's input, and honestly I am heartened at how many people jump-forth and are willing to help out a novice.  This really is a good forum.  Thanks.


----------



## Scotts Bum Wine (Mar 8, 2013)

ac-

  A few years back, I had a family friend in to replace my fuel oil boiler.  He had been in the business for 40+ years and did some calculations based on my needs, window size and numbers, lack of good insulation, etc.  He added a bit of extra on to the final number, at my request.  The bottom line came down to 189,000 btu.  Knowing that this number is inflated, and adding in my well-insulated small shop, I figure a 140,000 btu unit would suffice, after reading that a wood gasification boiler should be a bit undersized.


----------



## avc8130 (Mar 8, 2013)

Scotts Bum Wine said:


> ac-
> 
> A few years back, I had a family friend in to replace my fuel oil boiler. He had been in the business for 40+ years and did some calculations based on my needs, window size and numbers, lack of good insulation, etc. He added a bit of extra on to the final number, at my request. The bottom line came down to 189,000 btu. Knowing that this number is inflated, and adding in my well-insulated small shop, I figure a 140,000 btu unit would suffice, after reading that a wood gasification boiler should be a bit undersized.


 
Ok, good.  I didn't actually want you to do that calculation to size the boiler itself, per se.  I was hoping you could do the calc to determine if a reasonable amount of storage could serve you well.  If you truly have 140k btuh heat load, the typical 1k gallons of storage would last you ~2.5-4 hours depending on how well your current distribution setup works with lower temps.

ac


----------



## Fred61 (Mar 8, 2013)

Scotts Bum Wine said:


> Asking opinions on a web board is anything but scientific, but it is all I have to go on. I appreciate hearing everybody's input, and honestly I am heartened at how many people jump-forth and are willing to help out a novice. This really is a good forum. Thanks​


Be careful about whose opinion you take seriously. The guy that is in his first year of running his gasser is still in the honeymoon phase. Can't wait to get home and put the wood to that beautiful gasser. I, on the other hand, have several years under in the gasser bedroom. After the first or second year the excitement turns to reality and one finds the odd behavior not so tolerable.

I have used the analagy about the guy that installs a potbelly stove that's full of holes after heating with a fireplace and would recommend it to anybody. Never been warmer!! Then replaces it with a franklin stove. Wow, what a machine. Never been warmer!. I'd recommend it to anybody, etc.

I have burned wood since 1959 forward at hunting camp and in my homes since 1970 in all kinds of stoves including one made from highway signs.


----------



## avc8130 (Mar 8, 2013)

"Being humble is a lot less stressful than walking around with a big ego."

-Unkown


----------



## Scotts Bum Wine (Mar 9, 2013)

> in the gasser bedroom


 
Fred, my wife would say she already lives in one of those.


----------



## infinitymike (Mar 9, 2013)

avc8130 said:


> "Being humble is a lot less stressful than walking around with a big ego."
> 
> -Unkown


 
Did you mean ego or eko?


----------



## Fred61 (Mar 9, 2013)

Oh yea! ----- And I have no problem dealing with personal attacks.


----------



## BoilerMan (Mar 10, 2013)

Scotts Bum Wine said:


> Who can boast having the oldest wood gasification boiler? What would that be?
> 
> Scott


 
The wear components are what needs to be serviceable and replaceable, and not some propriatary stuff that you need to speak Polish to get. 

One can argue that any boiler can last almost a lifetime, other than fireside corrosion as Fred expierenced.  If the boiler is cast iron or steel is in a truely closed system (oxygen barrior pex in not really a 'closed system' just a mostly closed system).  There _should _be no water-side corrosion in a hydronic system with no leaks and minimal "opening of the system" for component replacement/service.  Proper water testing/treatment is still important in a closed system.

Fire side on the other hand, needs to be well kept and cleaned with the upmost care, this is always true, but especially important during the off season.  Pretty much every part of wood burning produces corrosive by-products, ash, smoke, condensate, tar etc.  Ash needs to be as close to 100% removed as possible, all surfaces should be scraped of loose creosote (upper chamber) refractory removed (if possible) scrape vacuum, scrape and vacuum some more, then spray everything with some type of oil, WD40 is my choice for summer formeldahyde.  I try to make everything that is exposed to combustion all the way to the chimney cap as close to as-new condition as possible in the spring.  This goes as far as climbing on the roof with the garden hose to rince off the cleaner I use to polish the SS chimney cap after brushing the flue.  My wife thinks I'm crazy, _and she may be right.........  But I've always said that a true crazy person doesn't know they are crazy._

_TS_


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## Scotts Bum Wine (Mar 11, 2013)

Mr. Sutherland-

  Thank you for your advice.  I appreciate it!  Those sound like good maintenance tips for a lot of heating plants, not just wood boilers.  For the summer, do you leave your system open so the air can freeluy flow through, or closed up so the bugs don't get in?  I usually leave my heating appliances (wood, coal, and oil) open.  I figure the circulating air would keep them free of condensed moisture.  Of course, I could be wrong, as I frequently am.  Just ask my bride.  
  I gotta say that I admire your attention to detail.  I have to admit, as I get older, I am much the same way.  I bet you have a neat and tidy workshop.
  I have never been accused of being crazy face-to-face, but the word "eccentric" is often heard (at work and at home) relative to yours truly.  

Scott


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## Gasifier (Mar 11, 2013)

Scotts Bum Wine said:


> Mr. Sutherland- Thank you for your advice. I appreciate it! Those sound like good maintenance tips for a lot of heating plants, not just wood boilers. For the summer, do you leave your system open so the air can freeluy flow through, or closed up so the bugs don't get in? I usually leave my heating appliances (wood, coal, and oil) open. I figure the circulating air would keep them free of condensed moisture. Of course, I could be wrong, as I frequently am. Just ask my bride.
> I gotta say that I admire your attention to detail. I have to admit, as I get older, I am much the same way. I bet you have a neat and tidy workshop. I have never been accused of being crazy face-to-face, but the word "eccentric" is often heard (at work and at home) relative to yours truly.  Scott


 
Scott,

Eccentric - deviating from conventional or accepted usage or conduct especially in odd or whimsical ways .

(In other words, your "crazy" compared to all the "normal"people!  But that's okay, a lot of us wood burners are!


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## Scotts Bum Wine (Mar 11, 2013)

Gasifier-

  Perhaps this forum attracts the type of folks who are a tad off plumb, such as I.  ;o)  So far, I seem to fit in.

  Hey, as long as I have your ear (so to speak), have you (or any other readers) heard of someone completely ditching their oil-fired boiler and relying solely upon a Wood Gun with oil backup for their main heating plant?  Does the oil burner throw enough BTU's to heat a home w/o using wood --- say when I am away?

  Also, I see that you have an 07 Tundra.  How do you like that?  Is that the newer body style?  I have an 05 with 150,000 miles, and (to-date) all I have had to do to it is replace an O2 sensor for $80.  I wish the Tundra came in a HD 3/4 ton, but I think the recession killed those plans for Toyota.

Scott


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## Coal Reaper (Mar 11, 2013)

Avc





Scotts Bum Wine said:


> Gasifier-
> 
> Perhaps this forum attracts the type of folks who are a tad off plumb, such as I.  ;o)  So far, I seem to fit in.
> 
> ...


  avc did that exactly this fall. But he has yet to hook up the oil lines to it.


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## maple1 (Mar 11, 2013)

People use combo oil/wood boilers as their sole heat source quite often.

I did away with oil all together (an oil/wood combo boiler that the oil did backup heating duty on & heated DHW in the summer), and replaced with a standalone wood boiler (with storage), a used electric boiler for backup heat (will have been used for a total of one day this winter), and a new 80 gallon electric hot water heater for DHW (that will be heated by the wood boiler & storage maybe 80% of the time year round via sidearm heat exchanger).


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## infinitymike (Mar 11, 2013)

Scott,

You would have to consider your lifestyle before ditching all sources of fuel other than wood.
If you go away for a few days in the middle of the winter you will need some sort of back up, electric, oil, gas, propane......or a friend to come and stoke the fire.
But I'm sure you knew that, so I apologize if I offended you.


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## Scotts Bum Wine (Mar 11, 2013)

Ahh, so it is doable.  Thanks for the quick responses.  A light went on in the dimly light rooms of my mind today --- wondering if I can forgo the expense of rebuilding the masonry chimney on my house, eliminating the oil boiler in the cellar, and heat the house with just a wood boiler w/ oil backup in the barn.  This might simplify my life and eliminate some costs, making a wood boiler more affordable.  Also thank you for letting me think-out-loud here.

Scott


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## CTFIRE (Mar 11, 2013)

Scotts Bum Wine said:


> Gasifier-
> 
> Perhaps this forum attracts the type of folks who are a tad off plumb, such as I. ;o) So far, I seem to fit in.
> 
> ...


I did - But haven't hooked up the oil yet


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## Scotts Bum Wine (Mar 11, 2013)

Mike-

  You would have to work a lot harder to offend me!  After all, I live near Buffalo!  :O


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## infinitymike (Mar 11, 2013)

Scotts Bum Wine said:


> Mike-
> 
> You would have to work a lot harder to offend me! After all, I live near Buffalo! :O


Well down here on the Island people get offended if you just say hello, so I'm always on the apologetic


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## infinitymike (Mar 11, 2013)

Scotts Bum Wine said:


> Ahh, so it is doable. Thanks for the quick responses. A light went on in the dimly light rooms of my mind today --- wondering if I can forgo the expense of rebuilding the masonry chimney on my house, eliminating the oil boiler in the cellar, and heat the house with just a wood boiler w/ oil backup in the barn. This might simplify my life and eliminate some costs, making a wood boiler more affordable. Also thank you for letting me think-out-loud here.
> 
> Scott


 
So it looks like you have narrowed down the options if you go wood/oil combo.
Obviously, the wood gun and I think there are a couple others, but I don't remember the names.

You know what I say, right?

WOOD GUN, WOOD GUN, WOOD GUN, GOOOOO WOOD GUN!


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## Scotts Bum Wine (Mar 11, 2013)

I'm sorry Mike, could you repeat that?  wud goon?  :D


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## infinitymike (Mar 11, 2013)

Scotts Bum Wine said:


> I'm sorry Mike, could you repeat that?  wud goon?  :D


Dats not a Lawng Gyland accent!


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## Scotts Bum Wine (Mar 11, 2013)

No, Mister.  Dat dare beez a WNY Buffalo accent, yah-hay!


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## infinitymike (Mar 11, 2013)

Scotts Bum Wine said:


> No, Mister.  Dat dare beez a WNY Buffalo accent, yah-hay!


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## Gasifier (Mar 11, 2013)

Scotts Bum Wine said:


> Mike-
> 
> You would have to work a lot harder to offend me!  After all, I live near Buffalo!  :O


Then it's official, you are crazy!


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## muncybob (Mar 12, 2013)

Scott,my boiler is wood/oil combo. Other than firing the oil once a month or so just to be sure it is working we only use it when we are out of town for a few days which normally is Christmas or New Years time. I would guess in the last 4 years we have burned maybe 20 gallons of oil. I'm sure the oil unit would heat the house adequately if I chose to do so. When returning home from a trip I barely have my coat off when I'm headed down to the basement to turn off that evil oil burner. It was an expensive option to the boiler at time of purchase but we were not in a position to add another chimney and since the boiler has an oil lock out feature it's a bit more safe than apparently previous models were.


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## CTFIRE (Mar 12, 2013)

Scotts Bum Wine said:


> Mike-
> 
> You would have to work a lot harder to offend me! After all, I live near Buffalo! :O


How close to Hamburg? I have a lot of cousins there. Go every year.


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## Scotts Bum Wine (Mar 12, 2013)

muncybob-

  Thanks for the information.  That's just the sort of information I was seeking.

Scott


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## Scotts Bum Wine (Mar 12, 2013)

Jason-

  I am about an hour north of Buffalo, and slightly to the east --- right near Lake Ontario.  So, not too close to Hamburg.

Scott


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## avc8130 (Mar 14, 2013)

Scott,

If you truly plan to use the oil as a "backup" ONLY when you are on vacation I wouldn't worry that much.  When you are on vacation, does the house need to be 70F?  Probably not.  Just about anything would probably be able to keep the house at 50F while you are away and then you can use wood to bring it back up to temp when you return. 

As Coal said, I have the oil backup on my WG...but I have yet to install the burner and run the lines.

ac


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## bigburner (Mar 14, 2013)

Thirty more years my boiler will be 110 years old, I hope to still be loading then. It spent it's life burning coal and we have be burning wood in it five seasons and we run some pretty low return water temps. It's a wet back and has mud legs so I am thinking with the amount of HX surface area that corrosion hasn't been too prevalent. I run it dirty in the fire tubes on purpose so that if there are wetting times on a reload that the tubes don't see the moisture directly. Planning an inspection this summer. This is what came out of my head after reading this post- on topic/ off topic -- no sure. My skin is pretty thick. Crazy maybe - Ya


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## muncybob (Mar 14, 2013)

I'm not sure, but I think bigburner takes the longevity prize!


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## Gasifier (Mar 14, 2013)

muncybob said:


> I'm not sure, but I think bigburner takes the longevity prize!


 
Bob, that isn't nice to say he is old like that.


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## Scotts Bum Wine (Mar 14, 2013)

> I'm not sure, but I think bigburner takes the longevity prize!


 
Boy Howdy!


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## bigburner (Mar 15, 2013)

Here's an analogy comparison between the bigburner  who is eighty years old and the WG mentioned was only a kid. - my family owns a gravel company and started buying [ 6 yard buckets] WA-500 wheel loaders in 1980 and currently own 8. The first ones had a series one engine they didn't own any series two motors but have some series three motors. The series one motors ran average of 30,000 hours and the series three motors ran an average of 9000 hours. They got a hold of a company insider that admitted to them that the series one motors were over built and the series three motors were under built and they were targeting a 18 to 20 TBO Time before Overhaul See my point. Planned obsolescence. In 1932 when the BB was made they were trying to build the best boiler they could, not one that would needed to be replaced after 20 seasons.


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## Scotts Bum Wine (Mar 15, 2013)

Perhaps in 1932 material was less expensive, or competition from other boiler manufacturers was not as fierce, so they did not have to design components down to the Nth degree to maintain profit margins.  Also, in 1932, US manufacturers were using virgin iron and steel versus recycled products like they use today --- outside of the automobile industry.  I have to pick from what is on the market today, but still it is fun to compare old to new.  

Scott


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## Gasifier (Mar 15, 2013)

bigburner said:


> Here's an analogy comparison between the bigburner who is eighty years old and the WG mentioned was only a kid. - my family owns a gravel company and started buying [ 6 yard buckets] WA-500 wheel loaders in 1980 and currently own 8. The first ones had a series one engine they didn't own any series two motors but have some series three motors. The series one motors ran average of 30,000 hours and the series three motors ran an average of 9000 hours. They got a hold of a company insider that admitted to them that the series one motors were over built and the series three motors were under built and they were targeting a 18 to 20 TBO Time before Overhaul See my point. Planned obsolescence. In 1932 when the BB was made they were trying to build the best boiler they could, not one that would needed to be replaced after 20 seasons.


 
I have seen this before in other products as well bigburner. I can't stand the lights on the dash of many of these vehicles today. Most are way too sensitive and send many a consumer to the garage that ending up spending money they did not need. It seems there are many things that are not built as well as they could be these days. Reason being that if they build them to well the consumer will not be back for a long time resulting in lower profit margins. It is all about the mighty dollar for some, not all, but many. Sorry about getting off topic there OP.


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## muncybob (Mar 15, 2013)

Sorta related...my sister just bought a new washng machine. Appliance guy at install time said too bad she didn't  spend  $$ to fix the old one as he can about guarantee the fancy looking new one won't make 10 years.


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## mikefrommaine (Mar 15, 2013)

muncybob said:


> Sorta related...my sister just bought a new washng machine. Appliance guy at install time said too bad she didn't spend $$ to fix the old one as he can about guarantee the fancy looking new one won't make 10 years.


 
LOL I have a seven year old front loader. Already replaced the 'spider' that mounts to the drum and drive belt. It had broken into three pieces. Had to take the whole thing apart, took 4 hours. Now I think a bearing is going bad. Makes an awful noise at times.

And I just threw out a microwave with a bad magnetron. Was cheaper to replace. Even with me doing the labor.


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## 711mhw (Mar 15, 2013)

bigburner said:


> It's a wet back and has mud legs so


 
So is that old boiler "undocumented"?


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