# Ugly rear ends



## BronxBoy (Oct 27, 2014)

Newbie here.

Trying to purchase a multi-fuel (not just corn and pellets) stove ASAP for a 1200 sf semi-attached row-house type of home in New York City.  Low-maintenance and quiet are important criteria.  I'm happy with utilitarian look but my wife strongly demands furniture-quality appearance.

Was ready to purchase an expensive Mt. Vernon AE which is beautiful from the front.  The dealer had his model set up as a fireplace insert.  When I peeked into the fireplace to view the back I was surprised!  It looks like the rear end of a 1970 portable TV.  Fine for a corner or alcove installation but not for a long row-house side wall. I actually called Hearth and Home and the rep claimed that I was the first and only person to raise this objection which I find hard to believe.  The beautiful front end is 17.5 inches wide but the ugly rear end is 12 inches--40% of the width.  For a high-end stove Quad should have designed a better rear end.

I researched the beautiful Enviro M55 cast stove but it has the same rear end aesthetic problem as the MVAE and the manufacturer does not claim it is multi-fuel.

Any suggestions?  I'm actually surprised about how few multi fuel stoves are on the market.  From a utilitarian perspective I'm impressed by the Harman PC-45, the Seraph 106, and the FireFlame Blue Ridge (Nero).   According to what I have researched the Magnum line of stoves from American Energy Systems require more maintenance and the Englander and US Stoves are noisy. I don't think any of these will pass the wife beauty test.  She's seen some images of them, says they remind her of crematorium burners.

Any suggestions?


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## Bioburner (Oct 27, 2014)

The Harman PC45 is longer in production Have you checked out any of the St.Croix stoves yet?


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## TimfromMA (Oct 27, 2014)

Bioburner said:


> The Harman PC45 is longer in production Have you checked out any of the St.Croix stoves yet?



+1

St Croix puts out quite a few different multi fuel stoves. You can check them out here:

http://stcroixstoves.com/multi-fuel-stoves


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## johneh (Oct 27, 2014)

I guess I do not understand what the problem is .
Are you installing the stove in the middle of the room
so the back side will be seen ?  All stoves have basically
the same look from the rear Smoke pipe outlet
combustion air intake , electrical cord and vents to allow heat out
and air movement with in the stove .
It is utilitarian  and hidden on a normal installs.


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## TimfromMA (Oct 27, 2014)

johneh said:


> I guess I do not understand what the problem is .
> Are you installing the stove in the middle of the room
> so the back side will be seen ?  All stoves have basically
> the same look from the rear Smoke pipe outlet
> ...



I addition to these, mine has a receiver for the wireless thermostat plus a relay and associated wires.


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## tjnamtiw (Oct 27, 2014)

This has GOT to be a joke!  It's a friggin SPACE HEATER, for crying out loud!  Just had to say what everyone else is thinking.  Never was any good at holding back.  Sorry.  
How pretty can the back get when you have two pipes sticking out the back?  Are you ready to pay for pretty cast iron, enameled trim on the back that the factory has to buy tooling for so YOU can have a pretty back?  TROLL ALERT!


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## TimfromMA (Oct 27, 2014)

Perhaps he can buy a zero clearance insert and build some sort of enclosure to put it in. He'll still see the vent and OAK, there's no escaping that.


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## BronxBoy (Oct 27, 2014)

No troll. My room is approx 40' long by 15'. Long and thin open plan. The problem is looking at the stove's side profile. That MATTERS in a rowhouse home. So I will be looking at 17.5 width of prettiness and 12 in of ugliness.

I will check out the St Croix models.

Thank you.


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## Bioburner (Oct 27, 2014)

Maybe have a custom wrought iron enclosure made to cover the offending sides. Simple enough and could be made really fancy with thousands of catalog designs available to assemble.


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## Bill L (Oct 27, 2014)

Wait, you are basing the looks on peeking into the fireplace to look at the back of the insert model? The m55 and I'm assuming the quadrafire come in a free standing version that will look quite a bit different. The M55 is also a multi-fuel stove


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## Polar Bear (Oct 27, 2014)

Methinks he needs to put his foot down...  anything can be pretty, it'll just cost more.


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## bags (Oct 27, 2014)

Does she want to be warm or stare at something pretty while cold and shivering? Bioburner has a good suggestion. Anything can be accomplished with a little creativity. You may have to pull some rank on the better half and suffer the consequences. I have a very utilitarian looking P68 (base model without over priced trims and accents) and see the sides. It looks like a wood burning stove / pellet stove. Not ugly by any means, but it is not a piece of upper price range furniture either. Well I recant that. It would be expensive furniture if I sat on it.


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## JDenyer236 (Oct 27, 2014)

bags said:


> Does she want to be warm or stare at something pretty while cold and shivering? Bioburner has a good suggestion. Anything can be accomplished with a little creativity. You may have to pull some rank on the better half and suffer the consequences. I have a very utilitarian looking P68 (base model without over priced trims and accents) and see the sides. It looks like a wood burning stove / pellet stove. Not ugly by any means, but it is not a piece of upper price range furniture either. Well I recant that. It would be expensive furniture if I sat on it.


Yeah I wouldn't sit on it, it gets quite hot on the top


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## tjnamtiw (Oct 27, 2014)

Remember the pretty covers that we had over radiators?  Possible adaptation????


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## hossthehermit (Oct 27, 2014)

Pellet stoves aren't for everybody ........... what's she gonna say when you go to clean it and dump a mess of ash all over the ROWHOUSE HOME ???????????????


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## Deromax (Oct 27, 2014)

Most of the Italians stoves would qualify as very nice looking!  With 2 inches of clearance to rear wall, the rear of a pellet stove should be mostly out of sight.


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## Bioburner (Oct 27, 2014)

Deromax said:


> Most of the Italians stoves would qualify as very nice looking!  With 2 inches of clearance to rear wall, the rear of a pellet stove should be mostly out of sight.


But any imports multifuel?


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## Jason845845 (Oct 27, 2014)

Does your wife know there will be two pipes and a power cord  in the back and it won't be pressed right up against the wall?  Is a wood stove an option?


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## Deromax (Oct 27, 2014)

Bioburner said:


> But any imports multifuel?



Oh, looks like I overlooked this.  

But are fuel other than pellets readily available and manageable in the big city?


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## BronxBoy (Oct 27, 2014)

Thanks, fellas. Send me the bills for the therapy. Bioburner, your idea for the custom wrought iron is great. Chickenman, I will take your advice. Jason84, we know about the 2 inches, no prob. But 12" plus 2 inches is a problem.

If anyone knows of multifuel imports please let me know.


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## batchman (Oct 27, 2014)

Check out Cumberland for a multifuel looker, but I can't recall what the back looks like - or quite figure out your issue for that matter.
But as Deromax points out, what exactly are you going to burn besides pellets?
Out here in the boonies I thought for sure I'd find corn (can't store due to vermin) or cherry pits (only available in MI).  In the big city?  I dunno, me.

Good luck,
- Jeff


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## hossthehermit (Oct 27, 2014)

They also make the electric ones that can look like a fire, some have a heat/no heat option ...............


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## 2biker (Oct 27, 2014)

Maybe the little lady might want an electric fireplace. Only 8 inches deep, push a button and you get a video flame, another button, you get heat.


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## BronxBoy (Oct 27, 2014)

BTW, Cumberland no longer makes their multi fuel stove.

Hey, Chickenman, don't give up on me so fast. The wife is looking forward to the stove. Just wants a pretty thing and I will take your advice and let her pick the design and color.

We are going to see a St. Croix dealer tomorrow. Any advice/opinions/cautions?


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## bcarton (Oct 27, 2014)

You could put a large plant, vase, or similar on either side of the stove (following clearance requirements, of course). That way you could focus on function more and worry about form less.


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## Byrond (Oct 27, 2014)

Don't have a pellet stove but due to a chimney fire the insurance company cut me a check for a new wood stove and liner. I chose the buck 81 due to cost vs looks. The wife hated it until the first night she was home by herself and the house was 41 degrees when she came in. Needless to say, she built a fire and has raves about it ever since


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## BronxBoy (Oct 27, 2014)




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## BronxBoy (Oct 27, 2014)

Picture from MVAE owners manual.  You can see the problem.  Yes, plant or custom wrought iron would hide the side view of the rear end.

Chickenman, you are the BEST salesman by making us think. We are still going to explore.


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## railfanron (Oct 27, 2014)

Chickenman after 48 years of marriage bliss I am qualified to say this. You are an extremely wise man.
To the original poster the Harman Accenture will burn 50-50 pellets and corn. I would thin in youth location that would fill your bill nicely but I agree with chickenman there are natural gas stoves that are very nice looking. I also was in my Harman dealer last Saturday and they had some beautiful electric hang on the wall units.
Ron


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## Byrond (Oct 28, 2014)

chickenman said:


> You have done well.
> Unfortunately I can give you numerous examples of the same story that ended extremely badly for the hubby.
> Despite my name I dont like paying chicken with the misuss, it is a very hard game to win.


Indeed a hard game to win. I was overruled when I wanted to remove the surround to get more heat from the insert. Currently looking at installing a heatmor outdoor furnace. We live in a 1100 sqft log cabin. Originally built in 1873 with ax cut timbers. During the coldest driest part of the year the timbers shrink and it gets quite drafty


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## Polar Bear (Oct 28, 2014)

chickenman said:


> Excuse me Mr Bear, methinkith you are heading for the same world of pain


 

Nope. I'm the boss (as long as she doesn't see this).


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## smirnov3 (Oct 28, 2014)

If you want quiet, avoid an insert - inserts tend to be nosier than free standing stoves


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## tjnamtiw (Oct 28, 2014)

BronxBoy said:


> View attachment 142587


If it were me, I'd be looking at gluing some decorative tiles to the sides or, perhaps, hanging them for easier cleaning/maintenance access.


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## tjnamtiw (Oct 28, 2014)

smirnov3 said:


> If you want quiet, avoid an insert - inserts tend to be nosier than free standing stoves


Huh?  Half of the insert is buried in the fireplace opening and sealed off with the surround.  The only noise I hear is the circulating air noise coming through the ill-thought-out decorative grates.


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## tjnamtiw (Oct 28, 2014)

Polar Bear said:


> Nope. I'm the boss (as long as she doesn't see this).


I've been married 42 years (a couple of good years they were) and after the first 40, I decided that SHE could be boss for the next 40!


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## festerw (Oct 28, 2014)

If good looks were the main concern the Thelin stoves are one of the best looking IMO.  Hearthstone's Heritage model is pretty nice too.

Keep in mind I have no idea how well these actually run they just look pretty lol.


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## tjnamtiw (Oct 28, 2014)

festerw said:


> If good looks were the main concern the Thelin stoves are one of the best looking IMO.  Hearthstone's Heritage model is pretty nice too.
> 
> Keep in mind I have no idea how well these actually run they just look pretty lol.


In my opinion, if it looks pretty, it's too high of maintenance and it will break your heart...........................  Oh, we're talking about stoves!!  Forgot!


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## festerw (Oct 28, 2014)

tjnamtiw said:


> In my opinion, if it looks pretty, it's too high of maintenance and it will break your heart...........................  Oh, we're talking about stoves!!  Forgot!



Agreed that's why I have an ugly stove and the pretty wife and pretty Jeep are a PITA........


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## Deromax (Oct 28, 2014)

The diagram that BronxBoy posted is indeed showing a terrible stove design.  It's like they started with an existing woodstove, then grafted-on the needed equipment and a pellet hopper to turn it into a pellet stove, instead of designing one properly, from scratch.  Maybe it's a good stove, but it's really ugly, imho.


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## batchman (Oct 28, 2014)

Now the question I keep coming back to, if a stove can trigger eyesore issues, what on earth do you do with bags of pellets?  Ash vac?  Tools? 
 I suddenly picture row houses in Boston and think the basement could be a *long* ways away...

Best of luck,
- Jeff


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## Jason845845 (Oct 28, 2014)

Wiseway! It's a stove! It's art! It's green! Wiseway!


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## Jason845845 (Oct 28, 2014)

chickenman said:


> Yep, except for the mess and work to keep it going.


Central heat! Out of sight, out of mind! No ugly rear end! Central heat!


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## 3650 (Oct 28, 2014)

I've had pretty good luck with my Cumberland 3650.  Not sure they make them anymore though.


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## BrotherBart (Oct 28, 2014)

Put this pretty puppy in the place. Not multi-fuel but the last time I was in the Bronx I didn't see any corn fields anyway.







http://www.pacificenergy.net/products/pellet/stoves/ps45-classic/


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## BronxBoy (Oct 28, 2014)

pS45 is pretty, lots of options.

Thanks for understanding my situation--a bit. No cornfields in the Bronx but plenty of garbage. In fact it's our #1 export. My hunch is that as wood pellets become more popular and prices go up, bio fuels from things like urban recyclables will be a wave of the future.

One more Q, gents. Thin is a plus in a 15ft wide room. Any suggestions about low depth stoves? Again my wish list is quiet, low maintenance, multi-fuel, pretty and thin.

Could make it to the St. Croix dealer today, perhaps tomorrow. Is it true about their poor service? I will check out Thelin.

BTW, Chickenman, my wife was showing stove brochures to our daughter)in-law.


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## twodogs02 (Oct 28, 2014)

Byrond said:


> Indeed a hard game to win. I was overruled when I wanted to remove the surround to get more heat from the insert. Currently looking at installing a heatmor outdoor furnace. We live in a 1100 sqft log cabin. Originally built in 1873 with ax cut timbers. During the coldest driest part of the year the timbers shrink and it gets quite drafty


Do you have the joints chinked?  Log chinking will expand close to 80% of the joint height. The bozo I bought my log home from decided to save some money and fill all joints with silicone chaulk, took me a year to remove that crap, put backer rod in then chink, made a huge difference in air infiltration


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## bags (Oct 28, 2014)

twodogs02 said:


> Do you have the joints chinked?  Log chinking will expand close to 80% of the joint height. The bozo I bought my log home from decided to save some money and fill all joints with silicone chaulk, took me a year to remove that crap, put backer rod in then chink, made a huge difference in air infiltration


Perma-chink................Google it.


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## Lake Girl (Oct 28, 2014)

Are there any regulations/by-laws about wood burning appliances?  Row house - how many floors?  Venting might get interesting.

She's not a multi-fuel but my Ravelli/Ecoteck Elena is pretty ... the Piazzettas have a similar look.  https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/pics-of-your-purdy-stoves-lets-see-em.122310/#post-1638688

Bronxboy - the type of stove you're envisioning in the future is not made yet - nothing out there that uses "urban recyclables"  - edit:  It's a good thought though!  Some pellets are made from reclaimed wood but their ratings are not the greatest.


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## bags (Oct 28, 2014)

BronxBoy said:


> pS45 is pretty, lots of options.
> 
> Thanks for understanding my situation--a bit. No cornfields in the Bronx but plenty of garbage. In fact it's our #1 export. My hunch is that as wood pellets become more popular and prices go up, bio fuels from things like urban recyclables will be a wave of the future.
> 
> ...



Somehow, I think this deal *might not* be feasible for you?? I hope it works out. Straight shooting you here. There is work involved. Period. Cheaper heat isn't free.

How many bags can you fit into the trunk of a cab anyway? Meter running (No problem, hand the driver a doobie and a fifth of Maker's Mark, plenty of time now). Who is carrying? Pallets (1 ton per) ( 3-4 tons is what you'll need) are out unless you own a helo and have roof top elevator access on your roof top. Something to think about*..........LOGISTICS*. I'm sure extra-curricula isn't to hard to come by for keeping the cabby busy. Trunk space is.....,a long with, storing pellets, getting pellets to where you use them, etc; and packing 40 lbs one step at a time. Don't worry about decorating the sides of the* "ugly rear."* Bags of pellets will solve that dilemma. Done. You with me?

Get rid off the gym membership. Parking for off loads costs? Cut holes into you next door buddies walls,,, they will never know. LOL! Just trying to take the fluff out so you might not need to take a thrashing from your better thinking decorative half. Row house = steps and storage. Motor thru it. Is it worth it?

I am loving my pellet stove. I live on a farm in KY. If I lived on a boat, which I have, it makes no sense as great as they are. Big house boats ............. still very questionable. You do your own math. I'll leave the bubble bursting up to the softwood pellet Lake Girl. P68 is fired up, ma'am! I stand corrected!


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## Mt Bob (Oct 28, 2014)

Byrond said:


> Indeed a hard game to win. I was overruled when I wanted to remove the surround to get more heat from the insert. Currently looking at installing a heatmor outdoor furnace. We live in a 1100 sqft log cabin. Originally built in 1873 with ax cut timbers. During the coldest driest part of the year the timbers shrink and it gets quite drafty


 Yes I have read most posts,grew up back east(western MD) chink your house!My cabin log part was built before I moved out here,1988,swedish cope,and being this close to the thermal disaster known as yellowstone park,the ground moves all the time,and temperature affects logs/all wood.The log parts of my house I have permachinked on the outside,some on the inside(swedish cope,look it up).My neighbors house(log) was chinked with cement from about 1993.They are both holding up about the same except I get 3 times the sun load as I am not in a hole,low daily sun.Why would you not fix the air leaks other than you want to keep it "historic"which is dumber than s***.Read this forum,seal your house,please!


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## Mt Bob (Oct 29, 2014)

Well getting late,but wtf,has anybody noticed that op originally was talking about putting in an insert?And then all this other crap?And if he/she/it/ is in a row house probably no legal exhaust option?In posts wants  multi fuel option to burn recycled garbage?Wake up people.If I am wrong,sorry.


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## BronxBoy (Oct 29, 2014)

Sorry for any confusion.  In my original posting I mentioned nothing about an insert or log chinks.  That was somehow brought up by others.

FYI I live at the end of the row so the house is semi-attached.  No problem going out through the side external wall.  Or I can do a vertical flue through the roof.  No big deal.

Yes, there is an urban-rural divide on this forum which should be brought up.  As much as possible urbanites need to catch up with you guys about eco-responsible heating--and we need your help!  We are good laboratories for the movement, in fact, with our smaller homes (mine is just 1100sf).  

I am under no delusions about the availability of fuels. I know I will have to start with wood pellets, and I can store a ton or two in the garage.  But looking around the corner, other fuels will eventually become available (some produced even in the Big Apple) and I want to be ready so I can have a seamless transition.

Some manufacturers claim their products can do it.  Chickenman, your Nero can candle even garbage pellets, right?  So advertises Vance of Seraph 106 (, starting at 3'40"). Shucks, they just aren't making the wife cut as of now.

I really appreciate all of you guys who are helping me and so many other newbies over the years!


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## bags (Oct 29, 2014)

All right BronxBoy, 
Now you are making a little more sense and you do have options. This forum is great and somewhat serves as *a self guided journey on pellet education with tons of support*. After all, it's your investment and something you will have to live and deal with. There are experts here with about every stove you can find that was ever made. Many burning pellets before pellet stoves existed if you know what I mean. *Very experienced individuals.* I have seen *some that have several decades with burning pellets*. No one knew _you were an end unit with a garage for pellet storage_.  Good deal! There are also many other New Yaawkers around here that will be helpful to you. Search them out.

The more specific details you give here (especially, the veteran pellet peeps) the better advice and suggestions you will get. I am a newbie also and try to give back in return for all of the help and support I have received here. Everyone does joke around a bit as you can see and that is all part of the fun. I have noticed there is a fun playful mode which is great and highly entertaining, but then the flip side (which is needed and awesome) is it can be straight up business and the love of our sport here. I have been reading here non-stop for a long time. I refer to older threads and am continuously learning so do yourself a favor and read up and use the search bar. It pays off. Don't feel bad because I am still lost, dazed, and confused to a degree. *Ask questions and research. *_*I just got spanked and educated on pellets by a lady!  *_They play this pellet sport very well and very educated also, so take note. Not to be taken the wrong way, just using it as an example.

Sounds like your main problem (LOL!) is letting your wife pick out what she likes looks wise. You are not the first and will not be the last. Can you blame her? It is your job to get her involved with more than the color and look. You both can learn and make a good decision you are both happy about. Worked for me! If she understands everything then she may become more tolerant on stove choices. I can also understand her view of wanting something decent looking since you will be living with it like a well behaved pet. You have oodles of options for heating 1,100 SQ FT. Might start a thread asking the best options for heating 1,100SF.?? Or asking people here with similar SQ FT how they are doing it. Also give some details on your floor plan, 1 or 2 levels?, tons of windows?, ceiling height?, building construction?, insulation?, how tight your envelope is?, etc; Basically: List your requirements, details of what you are trying to accomplish within the given space, and such. Good Luck!


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## briansol (Oct 29, 2014)

Where are you going to put your ash if you have no yard?


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## Fsappo (Oct 29, 2014)

Someone asked what my first thought was..does the OP have Natural gas?  didn't see the answer


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## tjnamtiw (Oct 29, 2014)

http://www.amfmenergy.com/55epacepest22.html
I'm surprised no one brought up this one!  Nice sides and not bulky.  And reasonably priced.  Forget about multi-fuel if you're thinking about garbage burning.  That's too darn far off to worry about.  Pipe dream, at best.  Go hug a tree!


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## BronxBoy (Oct 29, 2014)

Don't mind the kidding.  I am a Bronx Boy, after all, and that's a national sport here. I do have a yard so no problem with ash. Question, what is OP? (original poster I presume). Yup, we have natural gas.


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## briansol (Oct 29, 2014)

NG is cheaper than pellet burning right now...  

Do you have storage space for 3+ tons of pellets in the house too?  a basement/etc?  (not too familiar with those row things)


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## tjnamtiw (Oct 29, 2014)

BronxBoy said:


> Don't mind the kidding.  I am a Bronx Boy, after all, and that's a national sport here. I do have a yard so no problem with ash. Question, what is OP? (original poster I presume). Yup, we have natural gas.


Yep, you definitely need a thick skin to survive on this board!    Welcome aboard.  I guess you've been keel hauled enough.  I'm a dumb Dutchman from Berks county, Pa. so my skin is very thick!

That stove I referenced is apparently a good one made by a US company well supported directly on this forum.  Many people have bought the factory rebuilt stoves from AMFMENERGY and I haven't seen any complaints.


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## Jason845845 (Oct 29, 2014)

Natural gas is the cheapest,  cleanest method of heating right now.  I don't think what you're looking for exists yet.


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## Byrond (Oct 29, 2014)

bob bare said:


> Yes I have read most posts,grew up back east(western MD) chink your house!My cabin log part was built before I moved out here,1988,swedish cope,and being this close to the thermal disaster known as yellowstone park,the ground moves all the time,and temperature affects logs/all wood.The log parts of my house I have permachinked on the outside,some on the inside(swedish cope,look it up).My neighbors house(log) was chinked with cement from about 1993.They are both holding up about the same except I get 3 times the sun load as I am not in a hole,low daily sun.Why would you not fix the air leaks other than you want to keep it "historic"which is dumber than s***.Read this forum,seal your house,please!


Working on the chinking. Some times it holds other times not so much. It's seems a lot more difficult on square (not really) timbers than the round ones. It is a true work in progress as it was neglected for a lot of years afte my father died and then while it was tied up in probate.


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## bbfarm (Oct 29, 2014)

<------- pretty stove.  Also a multi fuel stove.  Can burn corn and cherry pits


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## Fsappo (Oct 30, 2014)

BronxBoy said:


> Don't mind the kidding.  I am a Bronx Boy, after all, and that's a national sport here. I do have a yard so no problem with ash. Question, what is OP? (original poster I presume). Yup, we have natural gas.



Unless you need to go thru extra work and money simply to feel "more green", There is not a reason I can think of to go with biomass instead of natural in your situation.  Natural gas is cheaper (in most cases), cleaner, easier and safer (in my opinion).  Not to mention the flames on a high end gas stove can be flat out realistic.  Also, more design options and many shallower profiles.


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## BronxBoy (Oct 30, 2014)

You guys are too much.  I feel like I'm pledging a college fraternity and it's initiation time.

OK, I drive a Prius.  I am 66 and want a line on my eulogy to include something like "took some baby steps toward living carbon neutral."

I can relent and put aside my hope for flex fuel.  My garage can easily hold 1 ton, perhaps 2 tons so I know it will mean finding a mid-season vendor while prices are high and supply is low.

I finally found a St. Croix dealer who services NYC.  We might be the Big Apple but I have been only able to find one dealer in the city (Quad) and two dealers in LI (St. Croix and Harman) who have licenses to sell, install, and service in the city.

Thanks to your reality checks my revised wish list for my 1100sf home is (in order of importance): lowest possible maintenance (auto ignition, ash removal no more than every other day), pretty, quiet, thin).  Tagging along at the end of my wish list is burns at least some alternative fuels.

I* hear *you guys, but I still want to join the fraternity.


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## hossthehermit (Oct 30, 2014)




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## BronxBoy (Oct 30, 2014)

Thank you guys for your time and concern.  Based on your collective wisdom, checkmate, I won't be joining the club.  Maybe will check out NG stoves.

Seriously, must do something.  We checked off almost all of the boxes to reduce cost and emissions: new boiler (oil unfortunately, done at the time oil and NG were at parity), new windows and doors, blown in insulation to attic and walls, caulking and weatherstripping, even Nest thermostat.  The one thing we can't do for health reasons is lower the thermostat.   Still paying $5K a year for heat and hot water (and adding carbon to the air).  Thought the pellet stove would help on both fronts.

Again, thanks for sharing your candid thoughts.


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## Lake Girl (Oct 30, 2014)

NG might be worth looking into if the cost of plumbing it into your home is not cost prohibitive.  A wide variety of choices ...  Good luck!


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## Fsappo (Oct 31, 2014)

lock the thread before he decides on a corn plot for the roof of his building for his amaze a blaze!


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## Bioburner (Oct 31, 2014)

Or maybe  methane generator for the garage


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## apandori (Oct 31, 2014)

Anthracite coal may also be a good option for you.


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## Straz85 (Oct 31, 2014)

BronxBoy said:


> Still paying $5K a year for heat and hot water (and adding carbon to the air).



I can't fathom how heat and hot water for a 1200 sq ft house would be $5000/year, even in NYC. How much is oil going for there? What temp are you keeping the house at? How old is your boiler? If you have the option to switch to gas now, I would do that in a heartbeat. Not sure about NY, but Massachusetts has quite a few incentives to switch. Last I heard you could get something like $700 off a gas furnace and I just got a gas tankless water heater a few months ago and there was an $800 rebate. My house is 2000 sq ft and between heat and hot water we're spending <$1400/year. That's before we got the wood insert. We also have a freestanding gas stove heating an addition due to shoddy duct work by the previous owners.


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## Fsappo (Oct 31, 2014)

Straz85 said:


> I can't fathom how heat and hot water for a 1200 sq ft house would be $5000/year, even in NYC. How much is oil going for there? What temp are you keeping the house at? How old is your boiler? If you have the option to switch to gas now, I would do that in a heartbeat. Not sure about NY, but Massachusetts has quite a few incentives to switch. Last I heard you could get something like $700 off a gas furnace and I just got a gas tankless water heater a few months ago and there was an $800 rebate. My house is 2000 sq ft and between heat and hot water we're spending <$1400/year. That's before we got the wood insert. We also have a freestanding gas stove heating an addition due to shoddy duct work by the previous owners.



I missed that 5K per year.  Also isn't adding up to me but I have zero experience heating in the city.


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## BronxBoy (Oct 31, 2014)

Already have corn growing on the roof and a methane generator in the garage, guys.  Been doing it for years.  Anthracite coal--keep it in the freezer after I mine it in the sub-basement.

We keep the house at 73-74 in the winter.  No choice, wife is recovering, thankfully, after a very protracted illness.  If we lived in the country I'd have her knitting in front of a roaring fireplace.

Oil boiler is five years old, very good shape.  Happy that oil prices are dropping this year.  Last year it was about $4.15 a gallon plus tax, now down to about $3.70 plus tax.  The 5K/year includes heat, hot water, and the service contract.  Forgot to mention on the post that the boiler also heats a basement through a hot water circulator (about 400 sf).  Excellent oil company, will come within an hour if boiler ever goes down.  Good service is all that holds that industry together these days.

When we installed the new boiler gas and oil prices were pretty much the same, then along came hydro-fracking.  Of course in hindsight I wish I had opted for gas conversion when I replaced the old boiler. Switching to gas heating now would cost about 9K--got a couple of estimates from plumbers already.

My reason for originally inquiring about pellet stoves was to cut down on the oil in addition to the other reasons I mentioned.


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## Lake Girl (Oct 31, 2014)

BronxBoy said:


> No choice, wife is recovering, thankfully, after a very protracted illness.  If we lived in the country I'd have her knitting in front of a roaring fireplace.



Glad to hear your honey is on the mend...


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## bags (Nov 1, 2014)

What I am reading tells me you would like to see and sit in front of a fire. It's your home and bank account. Do what *you would like and think is best for you* and if the wife would enjoy it then by all means do it. A pellet stove does require some work as you see. I view it as hobby more so than a chore and I do ALL of my cleaning, maintenance, and did my own install as I do with all of my stuff from motorcycles to tractors . If you get a good unit there will be an expense there vs. lesser priced units. Either way you will spend some cash to get things purchased, set up, stocked up, and running. Even some lesser priced units are good dependable units but might require more on the cleaning and maintenance end.

You are 66 and possibly retired so use your judgment. You've been around the block a time or two so I am sure you think before you pull the proverbial trigger. You are not necessarily rushing in blind ad are on the right track debating it out here getting various opinions. I am also sure that 1,100 SQ FT will become toasty warm the pellet route and eliminate your *heating* oil. However, you still have hot H2O etc; and a service contract to keep etc; Weigh it all out and *do a very realistic cost analysis* to see what true benefit a pellet stove offers. Best of Luck! I got mine for a reason just like many others here.

BTW, I am not disagreeing with chickenman, but he is not you. He does offer some excellent insight and options also. Ex: Calculate the cost lay out of the pellet set up and then how much more for the gas unit. Sorry to confuse but we love our pellet stoves around here but also try to offer Gents like yourself up front and honest scenarios also. Realistically, you will be spending between $4,000 to $6,000 for a pellet set up with installation and supplies to get a very slimmed down oil use to enjoy along with the cozy warm fire. 1,100 SQ FT is not difficult to heat pellet style nor any style for that matter. Sure there will be some cleaning, pellet totting, and maint. If you go with a gas conversion you will spend more, mess with nothing, and not have a fire to sit in front off. Your decision...... Your call. I am not trying to talk you into the pellet route by any mans but offering you another angle to look at your situation. You have to realistically calculate costs, weigh it all out, (pros and cons of all possibilities), and do what will benefit you the most now and down the road. Cleaning and 40 lb bags are not hard. But, it is easier to flip a switch on a stat. Stat = no fire. No fire = slim to no maintenance.


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## Lake Girl (Nov 1, 2014)

bags said:


> Ex: Calculate the cost lay out of the pellet set up and then how much more for the gas unit. Sorry to confuse but we love our pellet stoves around here but also try to offer Gents like yourself up front and honest scenarios also. ...
> If you go with a gas conversion you will spend more, mess with nothing, and not have a fire to sit in front off.



My sister has had two NG fireplaces installed in her Craftsman home - one in the living room; one in the basement family room.  Electric baseboards originally and could have gone with a NG furnace but wanted the ambiance of the fire...  Haven't seen the basement one yet but the upstairs one has a beautiful oak mantel that is consistent with the original woodwork of her home.

So, as bags said, everyone has preference/reasons...


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## BronxBoy (Nov 2, 2014)

This has been an interesting journey and having this forum has clarified my thinking.  I started on a "save the world" frequency and now I see that this is a budding hobby which my wife and I will enjoy.


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## BronxBoy (Nov 4, 2014)

Just to bring closure, we bought a ComfortBilt HP22.  It was on sale this weekend for $999 with $99 shipping.

It is far from the pretty multi-fuel thing we had originally envisioned but it puts out a lot of heat for a low price and the purchase and delivery process was easy.  

Based on the feedback we received here, pellet stove heating may or may not be for us.  If we find we love it, and with a season of heating behind us, we can purchase a  dream unit next year.  If we find chickenman was right afterall, we will have saved some oil money after a season, have a stove we can sell on Craigslist, and walk away with just having to patch up a hole in our wall.

Thank you everyone for your help in this process.


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## Ashful (Nov 20, 2014)

Re:  ugly stove back... You live in the Bronx.  You're not used to ugly, yet?  [emoji12]


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## BronxBoy (Nov 21, 2014)

Joful, c'mon Philly and the Bronx got to stick together!

The Bronx is beautiful with more parks than any other boro in NYC.  Pelham Bay Park is the largest park in the city, dwarfing Central Park.  We had a beautiful autumn:



And the people here are truly beautiful

My stove and pellets get delivered today (the hearth pad came yesterday).  Installation right after TG.  Can't wait.  My next door neighbor (mirror image of our semi-attached home) is very excited about the stove idea and is considering doing the same thing.

One pellet dealer has 8 clients in the Bx, the local stove man says he is installing 1 or 2 stoves a week in the Bronx.  So we might become the capital of stoves!


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## Pascal_Maertens (Nov 27, 2014)

BronxBoy said:


> pS45 is pretty, lots of options.
> 
> Thanks for understanding my situation--a bit. No cornfields in the Bronx but plenty of garbage. In fact it's our #1 export. My hunch is that as wood pellets become more popular and prices go up, bio fuels from things like urban recyclables will be a wave of the future.
> 
> ...


 well try to find a good Piazzetta dealer, there not multi fuel but they are very good looking, they are slim and very efficiant there is also models with separat blowers for extra rooms that can be run at different speed


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## BronxBoy (Nov 27, 2014)

Don't know why this posts sideways or upside down.

Installation is next week.


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## BronxBoy (Nov 27, 2014)

The technician came on Tuesday to scope the place and give an estimate.

I could have kissed the guy, or at least pht him on payroll. He walked in and saw the stove and the wife, first thing he said was, "What a beautiful stove!" He asked what I paid for it and after I told him he said, "What a grew price for this quality stove." When he saw the placement if the stove and the hearthboard he said, "What a great location, perfect!" "Boy, you guys are going to live this stove and you're going to save so much on your heating bill!"

Any remaining pieces of my wife's skepticism just melted away and she beamed.


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## Ashful (Nov 28, 2014)

BronxBoy said:


> Any remaining pieces of my wife's skepticism just melted away and she beamed.


You've done good.  Took me 3 seasons to get the wife fully behind it, the primary objection being the time required to harvest and process wood.


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## bags (Nov 28, 2014)

Wait until she feels the cozy heat and gets all warm and fuzzy. Then you have it beat without a doubt.


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## gfreek (Nov 29, 2014)

Looks real nice...get that stove fired up..


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## BronxBoy (Dec 14, 2014)

View attachment 147549


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## BronxBoy (Dec 14, 2014)

Finally up on Friday. Great installation process (Advanced Chimney) in NY.

Had to increase the exhaust voltage a couple of notches to accommodate the Lowe's Nature Heat brand. Glenn Turley, the Comfortbilt dealer, has been great to work with. He responds right away to my texts.

Glenn suggests that we set the thermostat to 63...but the first floor has been at a very comfortable 75-77. Weather in NYC has been mild (36-40). We will see what happens when we get a cold spell but the stove is keeping the hole house comfortable (except the basement, natch).

Did my first maintenance so I feel like a pro.

My wife is VERY pleased so far!

I have a few questions but will save for followup post. Thanks for all of your help.


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## johneh (Dec 14, 2014)

Dang wish I could get my stove to hang from the ceiling like that 
Just kidding nice stove keep warm
Maybe a nice mod will turn it around for you ! THE PICTURE


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## bags (Dec 14, 2014)

Great! I was wondering if it was a real deal. That stove will keep your place toasty in the coldest temps.


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## gfreek (Dec 14, 2014)

I was wondering how you were making out,  looks real nice, enjoy the heat..  Update us occasionally..


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## F4jock (Dec 14, 2014)

Kudos!


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## BronxBoy (Dec 15, 2014)

Thanks. will do.


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## BronxBoy (Dec 22, 2014)

It's now part of my morning routine: shut the stove down, wait 30 minutes for it to stop, dump and clean the burn pot, vacuum the interior and ash tray, clean the glass.  Takes about 15 minutes including the trip up and downstairs to fetch the ash pail and ash vacuum.  No big deal.  And my wife is still very, very happy.

Weather has been 30-40 degrees these two past weeks.  Will have to observe what happens when the weather gets colder.  Glenn had advised me to get hardwood pellets but, alas, none were available for delivery here in the Bronx and I would have to pick them up myself in Long Island or NJ.  So I'm burning L's softwood pellets.  I have no measure of comparison but I've gone through about 40% of a ton already which seems excessive to me given the mild winter so far.   The ash is not bad but each morning there are clinkers in the burn pot.

My only complaint so far is the temperature readout on the controller which is always 10-degrees off.  My guess is that there is faulty centigrade-to-fahrenheit conversion formula in the software.  When I have some time I will see whether the centrigrade reading is accurate.

Question to chickenman: how do I check for fine ash build up in the horizontal section of the flue?

Thanks, guys, and have a great holiday.


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## bcarton (Dec 22, 2014)

I'm not expert enough to help you here, but your stove should be just about roasting you out of your 1200 sq ft home at the rate you're burning pellets.  I'm burning barely over a bag a day, in roughly the same temps you're having lately, and it's very warm here in my house. It sure sounds like you're not getting the benefit of the heat your stove is generating. 

Hopefully some of the more experienced folks here can chime in and guide you to getting more out of your stove.  Is your stove's manual available online for download somewhere?


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## BronxBoy (Jan 12, 2015)

Hi everyone,

A Happy New Year to all the great burners here.

Really enjoying the stove and so is my wife.  The house is ideally heated for our needs.

Following chickenman's advice we are keeping the stove on low and letting the oil burner share some of the load.  Glenn has been super supportive and we have fiddled around with some of the controller settings. I will post them when I get a chance.  

So here are some unintended observations:
1- Residue.  We notice a very thin film of dust around the house since we started burning.  Is this normal for all pellet stoves? The dealer wants us to check the vent joints to make sure silicon caulking was used during the installation.   Will check on Wednesday.
2- The basement. An unintended consequence is that the basement is chilly (60-65) despite the hot water baseboard heating we have there.  I guess we underestimated the contribution of the steam pipe that runs through the basement ceiling before it hits the radiators upstairs. We keep a couple of electric heaters on just to take the edge off. Any suggestions?
3- Clinkers.  Tomorrow we are going upstate where we can pick up some hardwood bags of pellets.  Maybe the change of pellets will result in fewer clinkers.  

Thanks again, guys!


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## bags (Jan 13, 2015)

A 50K BTU pellet stove should be able to cook you out of 1,200 SQ FT with no other heat sources unless you have a window open or very poor insulation, bad windows and doors, and things like that. You speak of a basement or going down stairs. How big is that? Another 1,200 below? If so you have a 2,400 SQ FT area. I know places are smaller in New York for various reasons. Is your place truly 1,200 SQ FT? If so your stove using that many pellets and other supplemental heat being used also then you might need some adjustments. All I am saying is that a 50 K BTU pellet stove should be more than enough to heat that space more than toasty without other heat sources.

I think the residue or dust you might be mentioning could be from the fine puff clouds you can get when dumping pellets into the hopper. If your exhaust vent was leaking you would know. Anything is possible but pay attention as you load the hopper. Wipe areas off just before next loading. Then after the loading go back some time later and look at the fine dust film that is acquired from dust in the pellet bag. Just tossing out possibilities.


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## SidecarFlip (Jan 13, 2015)

Everytime I see the thread title....'ugly rear ends' I think of a fat girl's rear view.....


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## Snowy Rivers (Jan 13, 2015)

From a girls perspective, well a country girl anyway.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOKS ?????????????????? MY GAWD.

WARM IS THE KEY WORD

I have never seen any pellet appliance that looks nice out back.

I have an idea.

A lovely pair of cool little light weight fabricated walls that are maybe 3 inches thick and the same height at the stove (one on each side) and Faux paint them to look like brick, stone or whatever she likes.

These can be placed as close to the stove as the clearance specs allow and fastened to the house wall with a couple little brackets/screws.

Sort of a quicky alcove if you will.

I have done the faux paint thing around one of our stoves, and it does wonders.

Here is a piccy of one of our installs

Good luck

Snowy


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## woodmakesheat (Jan 13, 2015)

chickenman said:


> Is that the full size of the house?
> If so Mr b is right, no more than a bag/day.
> How is your insulation?



A bag a day is the equivalent of maybe 3 1500 Watt space heaters (closer to 2 counting efficiency losses.) 

But since I have a full basement, I guess I'm heating 3000 sq ft with 2+ bags a day. 

I like this new math!


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## hossthehermit (Jan 13, 2015)

SidecarFlip said:


> Everytime I see the thread title....'ugly rear ends' I think of a fat girl's rear view.....


Well, unlike some here, ........... I wouldn't know .............


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## Ashful (Jan 13, 2015)

can't speak for anyone else, but my stove only produces dust when the front door is open.  Since I do 90% of my loading thru the top-load door, there is virtually no dust produced by the stove.  Hauling wood thru the house does leave some dirt on occasion, but I use a satchel that catches 99% of that.  A stove should be under negative pressure, relative to your room, so there's no opportunity for dust to come out thru un-silicon'd gaps.  Instead, room air gets sucked in, cooling your flue and creating other headaches.  The only time a stove is under positive pressure, and able to blow dust out, is during a back-puff.


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## Snowy Rivers (Jan 13, 2015)

Another easy "butt fix" would be to get to little wrought iron (steel) panels made up to fasten between the stove and the wall to cover the BUTT ugly backside of the stove.


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## BronxBoy (Jan 14, 2015)

The basement is 800 square feet, half garage/half family room.  The house is insulated as well as a 1940-built house can be: new windows, new doors, plenty of blown in insulation.

BTW, when this thread started I was considering buying the Mt. Vernon AE which has a beautiful front but an ugly rear end IMO. I settled on the Comfortbilt HP22 which is industrial chic all around. No problem now with an ugly rear end.

Last night I loaded the stove with hardwood (PA Pellets) for the first time.  It does not burn as hot as soft wood but there are fewer clinkers.  I see I am going to have to adjust the flow rate.  1 is fine but with 2 it is feeding too fast causing the pellets to overflow into the ash bin.


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## bags (Jan 14, 2015)

So in reality you have 1,200 + 400 below of conditioned living space = 1,600 SQ FT total. Now it's making more sense. It is hard to get warm air heading down hill so you will likely have to use other heat sources for that area. Either way with a pellet stove you are saving some cash by letting it become the larger producer of your heat which is not all that bad. Work on getting it dialed in and running as well as possible and that is what you will have. You are the only Comfort Built stove I've seen here thus far so you will have to pioneer it a bit on your own.

On the other hand there are many long time and very experienced pellet stove owners / operators that can offer help and suggestions. Most pellet stoves are alike in many regards so you are not totally alone in figuring things out. Chickenman seems to be fairly familiar with your stove's manufacturer so he will be a big help I'd say. Also every situation is different  and that again leaves it for you to figure out to a larger degree. Good Luck!


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## SESZOO (Jan 14, 2015)

chickenman said:


> Hoss is righter than you realise.
> As a seller I come across this phenomenon quite regularly.  You are walking on eggshells here buddy
> 
> My advice to you is not buy anything.  Let the missus make the entire decision or you will pay for the life of the appliance.  It may sound simplistic but just say,"get whatever you want" because whatever you spend hours researching it will eventually end up in the bin replaced by what she wanted anyway.
> ...


As  a long time married  person ,Have to say  Your 100 %  Absolutely Right , If mama  ain't happy  no ones happy


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## BronxBoy (Jan 14, 2015)

Just received our oil delivery yesterday.  We used only 91 gallons (compared to the usual 225-250) this winter--and part of this was before the stove was installed!  Mind you, we still heat water with the oil burner and use it when we turn off the stove.  At chickenman's suggestion we letting the oil burner doing some of the heating.  Very pleased.


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## Ashful (Jan 14, 2015)

BronxBoy said:


> Just received our oil delivery yesterday.  We used only 91 gallons (compared to the usual 225-250) this winter...




You've won when the oil man gives you a dirty look, as he pulls away from the filler neck.

I've used 91 gallons in a single weekend.


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## BronxBoy (Jan 20, 2015)

Thanks, chickenman.  I've been working with the dealer trying to fine tune the feed but still not hitting the sweet spot.  The problem is that I get a few hours of excellent functioning and then pellets back up in the burning pot.  The traffic jam backs up into the pellet chute.  Fresh pellets have no room in the burning pot and they spill over into the ash pan.

I don't know whether the problem is being caused by a feed which is too fast, a burn which is too slow resulting in backup, or clinker formation on the bottom which leads to the backup.

We tried switching from softwood to hardwood pellets but that did not make a difference.

Next we tried switching settings: exhaust, auto clean, feeder.  As I said, still no sweet spot.

I will put down all the current settings for the record but we have moderate weather this week so I'd be extremely grateful to just get Stall #1 working right:

Stall #1:
Blower: 115V
Exhaust: 95
Auto Clean: 120 min/15 sec
Feeder: off-4.3/on-1.7

Stall #2:
Blower: 115V
Exhaust: 95
Auto Clean: 120 min/15 sec
Feeder: off-3.7/on-2.3

Stall #3:
Blower: 115V
Exhaust: 110
Auto Clean: 120 min/15 sec
Feeder: off-3/on-3

Stall #4:
Blower: 115V
Exhaust: 110
Auto Clean: 120 min/15 sec
Feeder: off-2.2/on-3.8

Stall #5:
Blower: 105V
Exhaust: 95
Auto Clean: 120 min/15 sec
Feeder: off-1.4/on-4.6

Thanks so much!


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## BronxBoy (Jan 21, 2015)

Today very good day.  Kept it on Manual #1.  No overloading, no need for a burn pot clean before bed. Only on bag of hardwood.  Happy camper.


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## BronxBoy (Jan 22, 2015)

Awwww, thanks so much! I appreciate your taking so much time.

I have the last of the hardwood in the stove now. I will let them burn out then clean out the stove. Then the new adventure starts with the new settings.


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## BronxBoy (Jan 22, 2015)

I have OAK.

Tried the new setting in #1 and switched to softwood. Flame died in abt 20 mins.

what adjustment shld I try? Thnx.


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## BronxBoy (Feb 12, 2015)

Just a holler and shoutout from the Bronx.

All is well here.  I found a very good fuel for the stove, American Wood Fibers Ultra White Pine.  Burns slow, no clinker, no overspill, no odor.  Don't know whether this is an exceptional fuel or whether it just nicely fits with the HP22 settings.  But who cares?

I just bought a couple of loose bags but this is the fuel I will order by the ton next year.


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## BronxBoy (Jan 5, 2016)

Just an update.  This is the second winter using the stove and we are still very pleased.  Over the summer we had the installer come to do an annual cleaning but he left in five minutes saying the stove is very clean and doesn't need any servicing.  No charge.  The oil company send me a $2500 refund check because my monthly budget plan was exceeding the usage.

Because I was able to plan ahead I was able to order two pellets of Okanagan Platinum and it's burning much better than the pellets from the blue big box store. 

December was very mild in the Northeast so the stove has just been on stall one manual.  Today is the first cold day and I moved the feed to stall two.  I had to increase the exhaust voltage to 100V because I could see the pellets were starting to back up.  My project for 2016 is to figure out the ideal blower and exhaust voltage settings and feed rates.

Thanks to everyone for your help last year.


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## Lake Girl (Jan 5, 2016)

Glad to hear your stove is treating you well ... The Okanagans are a decent pellet and are generally a reasonable price.  Take the time to learn how to tweak your stove!


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## Pascal_Maertens (Jan 10, 2016)

I love my stove !


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