# Thinking so adding a stove in the basement



## Enzo's Dad (Jan 23, 2016)

For the past coupl of years I have been remodeling my basement, it used be an in law suite. I am almost finished and it will end up being almost 1100 square ft. About 850 is open space. I have a fireplace down there that I never use, I was thinking of putting a small stove in there as a space heater. I do not think this will heat my whole house, I just have become used to how a room feels with wood heat.. I also had the basement completely sprayed with spray foam, all walls and rim joists  The floor is tile that looks like wood so it is not combustable





Now to my dilemma
1. New vs used
2. Small vs. medium
3. Insert vs hearth mount
4.... This will raise flags ,if go with an hearth mount installing it as a " slammer"  or partial stove pipe

The run from the basement to the top of the flue is about 38 ft I am concerned that this is too much for an insert.

I have been reading a lot about the jotul 602 and I like it. I feel like it will do what I need, plus it just looks unique. I am attaching pictures of the hearth and a used 602 I found on line and I am looking for input.


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## JA600L (Jan 23, 2016)

That 38 feet may be your best friend with a basement install.  Is the rest of the house well insulated especially the attic?  The basement is probably in a negative pressure environment.  With the spray foam it is not getting much fresh air either.  Take these things into consideration.  The stack effect can really mess up how a stove works,  smoke spillage,  etc.  Is it an exterior chimney?


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## Enzo's Dad (Jan 23, 2016)

JA600L said:


> That 38 feet may be your best friend with a basement install.  Is the rest of the house well insulated especially the attic?  The basement is probably in a negative pressure environment.  With the spray foam it is not getting much fresh air either.  Take these things into consideration.  The stack effect can really mess up how a stove works,  smoke spillage,  etc.  Is it an exterior chimney?


Goes through the garage and Hampton hi300 is running full time in the flue next to it, one floor above


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## begreen (Jan 23, 2016)

All good points and concerns. 38ft is a lot of chimney. The stove may need a key damper to reduce draft. Definitely if you go with the Jotul 602. The 602 is an small area heater. If the space is well insulated it will do the job of heating the basement space,only. Expect to feed it once every 4 hrs. 

Slammer installs are not legal anymore. What are the dimensions LWD, front and back of the fireplace?


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## iluvjazznjava (Jan 23, 2016)

The tall chimney is a good thing for a basement install - you can reduce draft with dampers, but creating more draft is more challenging.  I have a wood stove in my basement with a roughly 28ft chimney and there are times it won't draft well and I have to prime the flue by burning alcohol jelly before I can light a real fire.  Once it gets going, it drafts just fine.  Your house if probably tighter than mine too, which hurts draft.  Whatever you do, you will most likely want an outside air kit to feed your primary combustion air.  They are code required in my area, but I would install one regardless because they do help a basement stove draft better in a negative pressure environment.   It's safer too - much lower chance of having issues with carbon monoxide.  Not sure if the Jotul 602 is capable of having an OAK setup.  If your goal is to have a little space heat, then it may work.  If you want to heat anything more, find something larger.


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## Enzo's Dad (Jan 23, 2016)

The opening is about 29 high not sure on the depth


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## bholler (Jan 23, 2016)

Enzo's Dad said:


> 4.... This will raise flags ,if go with an hearth mount installing it as a " slammer" or partial stove pipe


Yes it needs a liner no question.


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## begreen (Jan 23, 2016)

Enzo's Dad said:


> The opening is about 29 high not sure on the depth


I would consider a Jotul F3B instead of the 602. It can be configured rear-exit at  22  9/16" center line, 28" to the top of the stove.  The F3CB will take up to 18" wood and has a nice fireview.


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## Enzo's Dad (Jan 23, 2016)

It's been on my radar, there is also a Hampton and a hearthstone that have rear exits at that height


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## begreen (Jan 23, 2016)

The Hampton H200 is a nice little stove.


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## Enzo's Dad (Jan 23, 2016)

My fear with going with one of those stoves is that I'll get way into running 2 stoves all the time. I have been thinking about this for over a year. 

Another concern is by the time I spend the money and time on a liner is a stove like the 602 worth the effort....but at the same time I don't want to break the bank


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## jatoxico (Jan 23, 2016)

Enzo's Dad said:


> My fear with going with one of those stoves is that I'll get way into running 2 stoves all the time. I have been thinking about this for over a year.
> 
> Another concern is by the time I spend the money and time on a liner is a stove like the 602 worth the effort....but at the same time I don't want to break the bank


Put the right liner in and you can always upgrade stove a couple years down the line.


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## JA600L (Jan 23, 2016)

What is your budget?


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## Enzo's Dad (Jan 23, 2016)

Not sure.....I could hold out till summer saw the Hampton h200 in August for 1300...I would say 2 k tops


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## Ashful (Jan 25, 2016)

Enzo's Dad said:


> My fear with going with one of those stoves is that I'll get way into running 2 stoves all the time.


1.  What's wrong with that?

2.  You can stop any time, or so they say...

What's the ruling on running OAK pipe up from stove to rim joist?  BKVP said this should not be done, lest the OAK reverse and act as a chimney, but this seems impossible to me with the chimney being 3x taller than the OAK.  Maybe a problem with open door burning, but not in a sealed system.


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## iluvjazznjava (Jan 26, 2016)

Ashful said:


> 1.  What's wrong with that?
> 
> 2.  You can stop any time, or so they say...
> 
> What's the ruling on running OAK pipe up from stove to rim joist?  BKVP said this should not be done, lest the OAK reverse and act as a chimney, but this seems impossible to me with the chimney being 3x taller than the OAK.  Maybe a problem with open door burning, but not in a sealed system.


I run the OAK on my F55 up and out through the rim joist - the intake is probably 8 or 9 feet above the stove.  Jotul says intake should be lower than stove, building code says I must have an OAK no matter what - building code won, but I haven't had any problem with my setup.


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## tcassavaugh (Jan 26, 2016)

i have a 602 that i no longer use. it was the little stove that could back in 93....or was it 94. we had just gotten married and my wife had a friend that had a "small wood stove" that was offered to her and she asked me if she should take it. we already had a thimble through the ceiling and i told her to jump on it sight unseen. well, it ended up being a little jotul that i carried to the truck....lol. anyway, a few months later, we had a heck of an ice and snow storm and power went out for days. that little stove heated a split level and cooked meals for six on it. its a small stove taking only 16 in wood but its the little stove that could. i currently have an F3CB that i bought because i liked the 602 so much. i heat my 1200 sq ft ranch with it. either stove is a great stove. good luck.


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## kennyp2339 (Jan 27, 2016)

Ashful said:


> 1.  What's wrong with that?
> 
> 2.  You can stop any time, or so they say...
> 
> What's the ruling on running OAK pipe up from stove to rim joist?  BKVP said this should not be done, lest the OAK reverse and act as a chimney, but this seems impossible to me with the chimney being 3x taller than the OAK.  Maybe a problem with open door burning, but not in a sealed system.



If you going to do a basement install, install the stove and chimney first and measure the draft, you may not need the OAK *This comes from recent experience on my part.


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## iluvjazznjava (Jan 27, 2016)

kennyp2339 said:


> If you going to do a basement install, install the stove and chimney first and measure the draft, you may not need the OAK *This comes from recent experience on my part.


You may not need it, but you may want it anyway.  OAK allows the combustion air to come from outside the house, so you aren't using the conditioned air inside the house to feed the stove.  Building code in your area may require it too.  Insurance where I am won't insure a house with a wood stove unless they have seen sign off from a building inspector.  Perhaps your area is different.


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## Enzo's Dad (Jan 27, 2016)

I really don't know, the basement is a walkout, with a door and 4 full size double hung windows 
I know the house was built with the masonry fireplace approved and if I am using that I need to follow the rules of having a full liner to the top. The thing drafts well now, I am worried that a 6" flue attached to the jotul might act like a vaccum cleaner


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## kennyp2339 (Jan 27, 2016)

iluvjazznjava said:


> You may not need it, but you may want it anyway.  OAK allows the combustion air to come from outside the house, so you aren't using the conditioned air inside the house to feed the stove.  Building code in your area may require it too.  Insurance where I am won't insure a house with a wood stove unless they have seen sign off from a building inspector.  Perhaps your area is different.


Right, but under the right conditions like my failed install, I developed a super charged draft and still had excessive air coming out of my t-stat cover from the 3" duct, yes that problem could be solved either by increasing the chimney diameter 6" to 8" or putting in a gate valve to restrict in coming air, but why bother doing all of that if you don't need that. Also some people say an oak that has its intake higher than the stove is dangerous, under the right conditions a reverse draft can happen, if that were to happen the hot gases going through it would lite your house on fire, or co gas can spill into the room causing a problem also.


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## bholler (Jan 27, 2016)

Enzo's Dad said:


> I am worried that a 6" flue attached to the jotul might act like a vaccum cleaner


Just put in a stack damper and you will be fine.  Also with older stoves like that you can shut the air down all the way so you can control them better if you have excessive draft.


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## begreen (Jan 27, 2016)

If you mean the older Jotul 602 definitely add a key damper. Strong draft will cause it to burn hot. The stove is a very willing heater but it's easy to overfire without vigilant regulation. The air control is not airtight. Also, without a key damper in the flue it tends to send up too much heat up the chimney.


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## bholler (Jan 27, 2016)

begreen said:


> The air control is not airtight.


Really the ones i have worked on where all pretty tight.


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## begreen (Jan 27, 2016)

If you look at the design of the spinwheel intake it is just metal shutters against the door body. It works pretty well, but gets sloppier with age. With good draft it is also very touchy to set at low levels. Crack it open just a hair and the fire can take off it is dry pine or fir. A key damper makes a big difference in the precision of control.


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## Smoked (Jan 27, 2016)

I have one of my Heritage stoves in an install very similar to that in my basement.  I found an 8021 4" legs new to get the back of the stove just inside the opening but 90% is out on the hearth.  Homesteads are short too.  Line the chimney for sure.  Mine chimney is 31 feet and I put a damper in the snout of the tee and use it when the temp is below 30f.


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## Smoked (Jan 28, 2016)

I have one of my Heritage stoves in an install very similar to that in my basement.  I found an 8021 4" legs new to get the back of the stove just inside the opening but 90% is out on the hearth.  Homesteads are short too.  Line the chimney for sure.  Mine chimney is 31 feet and I put a damper in the snout of the tee and use it when the temp is below 30f.


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## mass_burner (Jan 28, 2016)

begreen said:


> If you mean the older Jotul 602 definitely add a key damper. Strong draft will cause it to burn hot. The stove is a very willing heater but it's easy to overfire without vigilant regulation. The air control is not airtight. Also, without a key damper in the flue it tends to send up too much heat up the chimney.


They have inline adapter pipes with the key damper built in. I have one on my 602.


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## Enzo's Dad (Jan 29, 2016)

So I think I may start with a used 602 and a stainless liner. I found this for sale. What do you think this is worth and would it clean up?


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## Ashful (Jan 29, 2016)

It can always be cleaned up, and I've brought back machinery worse than that... but is it worth your time and effort?  Perhaps someone else can comment on the cost.


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## begreen (Jan 29, 2016)

This stove with enameling and the top trivet in excellent condition, inside and out, can sell for about $400-500 during peak season. Painted in great condition without the trivet about $300-400 peak season price. Off season price will vary maybe 20% less.

Are the side burn plates missing? What shape is the baffle in? Any cracks? If you have the burn plates and they plus the baffle are in good condition then I would say $200-$250. If the side plates are missing then $50-$100 and if the baffle is also cracked or warped, then free.

Moving this thread to the classics for the old F602. Parts prices can be found here.
http://www.woodmanspartsplus.com/68/catalogs/Wood-and-Coal-Stove-Manufacturers-Cross-Reference.html


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## Enzo's Dad (Jan 29, 2016)

I am getting pretty good with an angle grinder with the wire brush attachment, I always have time for projects..... Just finishing them all


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## Enzo's Dad (Jan 29, 2016)

Thanks I was going to ask to have it moved.....


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## Enzo's Dad (Jan 29, 2016)

And thanks I was thinking 175 the top baffle is there as well as the side plates


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## begreen (Jan 29, 2016)

If the baffle and side plates are in excellent condition (no hairline cracks, no warping) then the stove is worth $175. It will clean up easily with a wire brush on a drill and then some steelwooling. Wipe down with alcohol and then use Stove Brite metallic black paint to bring it back to original beauty.

Before refinishing you might want to put a bright light in the stove while in a darkened room and from the outside look for any light leaks at the seams. If you see some then it will need a quick teardown, seam sealing and reassembly. I also added a rear burn plate to protect the backside. That area can crack under the flue collar if the stove is overfired due to the lack of rear protection.


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## Enzo's Dad (Jan 29, 2016)

Thanks....I think I am going to try it out
What did you use to make the rear plate?


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## Ashful (Jan 29, 2016)

Enzo's Dad said:


> I am getting pretty good with an angle grinder with the wire brush attachment, I always have time for projects..... Just finishing them all


I'd either take it somewhere that can blast it for you, or fab up an electrolysis tank for it.  Angle grinders are for amateur hour.  Every town has someone who sand blasts machinery, gym equipment, or autos.


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## bholler (Jan 29, 2016)

Ashful said:


> I'd either take it somewhere that can blast it for you, or fab up an electrolysis tank for it. Angle grinders are for amateur hour. Every town has someone who sand blasts machinery, gym equipment, or autos.


There is absolutely nothing wrong with a wire wheel and an angle grinder.  there is not enough detail or heavy rust on that jotul for me to justify blasting it.   If it was me i would tear it down completely wire wheel each piece then reassemble and paint it.  total would be about 6 to 7 hours not taking into account the dry time between assembly and paint.   It there was more detail then yes i would say blast it but that would be an easy 1 hour job with a grinder.


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## Ashful (Jan 29, 2016)

To each his own.  Having a bad habit of inheriting and buying old machinery, I kept the local sand blasters pretty busy for a number of years, and find that the preferred way to go.  I value my time, and grew tired of tasting rust many years ago, so I favor blasting.  Small stuff goes in my own blast cabinet, and stuff larger than 30" on any side goes to the local blasting shop.  The profiling left by blasting cast iron will provide superior paint adhesion to any wire-wheeled surface.  Just don't blast anything you want to keep as bare cast iron (eg. planed machinery tables), as blasting will take it's soul away.


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## begreen (Jan 30, 2016)

Enzo's Dad said:


> Thanks....I think I am going to try it out
> What did you use to make the rear plate?


10 ga steel. I cut a cardboard template to fit under the baffle. A buddy cut it out for me with a plasma cutter. The plate is held in place with #10 machine screws with an nut on each screw inside to act as a spacer.




I had the stove taken apart, sealed and reassembled in a Sunday morning. That included drilling out and retapping a couple busted out bolts. It is a very simple stove.


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## Enzo's Dad (Jan 30, 2016)

Thanks for the advice. I think I will try taking it apart cleaning it with wire brushes and painting it. I would love to have it sandblasted but the problem with the 602 is that a new one is $900. If I bought one used for 175 and put 150 into it it makes sense. Anything over that buying a new one looks more attractive.

The other thing is once the liner is installed if I don't like the performance of the 602 I'll just replace it with one of the stoves we mentioned earlier in the post.

I will pick up that used 602 this weekend and keep you posted..

Begreen I was wondering if the stove performed any better with that back plate


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## bholler (Jan 30, 2016)

Ashful said:


> To each his own. Having a bad habit of inheriting and buying old machinery, I kept the local sand blasters pretty busy for a number of years, and find that the preferred way to go. I value my time, and grew tired of tasting rust many years ago, so I favor blasting. Small stuff goes in my own blast cabinet, and stuff larger than 30" on any side goes to the local blasting shop. The profiling left by blasting cast iron will provide superior paint adhesion to any wire-wheeled surface. Just don't blast anything you want to keep as bare cast iron (eg. planed machinery tables), as blasting will take it's soul away.


Yes I know the benefits of blasting I also know the cost comparison between me charging my shop rate to do it and me paying to have it done.  And on a simple small stove like that one i can do it cheaper and as well with a wire wheel.  Actually i usually use an abrasive rope wheel they leave a better texture for paint.  But yes there are many cases that i have things blasted or do it myself.  But in this case i don't see that it is worth the cost personally.


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## mass_burner (Jan 30, 2016)

OP, is it my eyes going or that door knob broken off.


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## Enzo's Dad (Jan 30, 2016)

I think it is....


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## mass_burner (Jan 30, 2016)

Enzo's Dad said:


> I think it is....


The door will not open easily with the handle like that, it takes a little muscle to lift the handle up and if it's jagged or missing, that's not ideal.


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## begreen (Jan 30, 2016)

Enzo's Dad said:


> Thanks for the advice. I think I will try taking it apart cleaning it with wire brushes and painting it. I would love to have it sandblasted but the problem with the 602 is that a new one is $900. If I bought one used for 175 and put 150 into it it makes sense. Anything over that buying a new one looks more attractive.
> 
> The other thing is once the liner is installed if I don't like the performance of the 602 I'll just replace it with one of the stoves we mentioned earlier in the post.
> 
> ...


No major change in performance, but the temperature of the back of the stove dropped dramatically. I think the F602CB has a back burn plate now.


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## Ashful (Jan 31, 2016)

Would it be worth just doing the mechanical repairs and running it, to see how it works for you, before putting time or cost on the clean up and repaint?


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## Enzo's Dad (Jan 31, 2016)

I wouldn't take that long....to clean and paint besides I'll be able to sell it quicker cleaned up if I don't like it..

I'm thinking an off white for color


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## Enzo's Dad (Feb 5, 2016)

Played around with a wire brush on an angle grinder. It does clean up nice


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## Ashful (Feb 5, 2016)

Love that casting.  I remember seeing one of these in a green enamel, that looked very sharp.  I think it may have been a standard Jotul color, at one time.


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## begreen (Feb 5, 2016)

Yes, they had a nice dark grey-green enamel model. Ours is cranberry red.


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## Enzo's Dad (Feb 6, 2016)

Actually that leads to my next question, I am looking at stove bright paint, I was going to order black metallic, but I saw there was a charcoal metallic, any experiences out there with these colors


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## Enzo's Dad (Feb 6, 2016)

Found a date inside the door


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## Ashful (Feb 6, 2016)

Nice.  38.5 years old!


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## Enzo's Dad (Feb 6, 2016)

It's a little older than my wife, but younger than my tractor


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## mass_burner (Feb 7, 2016)

Enzo's Dad said:


> Actually that leads to my next question, I am looking at stove bright paint, I was going to order black metallic, but I saw there was a charcoal metallic, any experiences out there with these colors


I used stove bright charcoal for my 602 and I love it cause it looks exactly like bare cast iron which was the look I was going for.

There is a baffle over the inside door that needs to be removed to see the date, I'll need to do this cause I'm curious.


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## Ashful (Feb 7, 2016)

Wishing I had another functional chimney, since I'd love to run a 602.  Cool little stoves.


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## Enzo's Dad (Feb 9, 2016)

Mass burner how many cans of stove bright did you use?


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## Drpparker95 (Feb 9, 2016)

I need help with a hearth pad build I have some questions about a few different ideas I have for it. I want to use a wood frame with cement boards but no tile, what would be my other options to cover the cement board


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## webfish (Feb 9, 2016)

Drpparker95 said:


> I need help with a hearth pad build I have some questions about a few different ideas I have for it. I want to use a wood frame with cement boards but no tile, what would be my other options to cover the cement board



Probably best if you start your own thread under Wood Stoves forum.


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## Drpparker95 (Feb 9, 2016)

I've looked around and I can't see how you start a new thread. Can someone tell me how to start a thread


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## BrotherBart (Feb 9, 2016)

I started it for you yesterday and an email was sent to you linking to it.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/flame-view-heater.153055/


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## Drpparker95 (Feb 9, 2016)

Oh sorry about that brother Bart I never received the email, just a few about reply to the thread and one about confirming my account. Thank you for starting the thread for me


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## mass_burner (Feb 10, 2016)

Enzo's Dad said:


> Mass burner how many cans of stove bright did you use?


We'll, I still have a can with a little left. And I can't imagine it taking 2 cans, so I'm saying 1 can should do it.


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## Enzo's Dad (Feb 29, 2016)

So I brought the stove in the house and put in in the hearth, not sure if I like the look. I am considering cutting the legs and have been reading posts on this forum all day on it.

Not worried about lower clearance it is in a basement masonry fireplace with a tile floor. I am re building the mantle and I think the stove looks to close to it. The manual calls for 19 from the rear exit to the top combustibles. I bought the stove for 180 so I am not worried about cutting the legs 2 or 3 inches..

Also there was firebrick in the inside of this 602


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## mass_burner (Feb 29, 2016)

No firebrick necessary, just a thin layer of sand I believe is recommended. Besides, you'll need all the space you can get. 

Also, the legs flare out at the bottom, I'm not sure cutting them would be possible.


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## Bad LP (Mar 6, 2016)

My father had a 602 back in the mid 70's. Great little stoves but IIRC they had a tendency to crack the side plates.


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## Enzo's Dad (Mar 12, 2016)

Almost done with my project... I am going to put the liner and block off plate in the fall


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## Enzo's Dad (Mar 12, 2016)

I added some combustibles..the before


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## begreen (Mar 12, 2016)

Yes, looks like the mantel needs a heat shield if it is combustible.


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## Enzo's Dad (Mar 12, 2016)

Enzo's Dad said:


> I added some combustibles..the before
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## begreen (Mar 12, 2016)

Side parts of the mantel look far enough away to not be an issue. It's above the stove that looks like it needs shielding.


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## Enzo's Dad (Mar 12, 2016)

I am below the 19" that is in the 602 manual, but I think a heat shield will help , and possibly aid in convection


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## begreen (Mar 12, 2016)

See what you think. The 602 can get plenty hot on top. If you find the underside of the mantel ledge is getting too hot, a discrete plate on 1" spacers on the underside of the mantel will help.


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