# Dishwasher - Besides ME!!!



## dbchris (Nov 3, 2006)

I have decided I am in the market for an automatic dishwasher to replace the Whirlpool we have. A little history. When I bought this home 3 years ago, this dishwasher was VERY new. The problem is that about once a week - very random -the dishwasher leaves a soapy residue on the dishes. It is sooo annoying because I do not notice the film until the dishes are put away. They are not completly dry so they look clean. Then when I pull them out, they are gross. I also like to eliminate the dry cycle on occation to save electricity. We have very hard water here, however, the white film on the dishes always washes off if done by hand. this leads me to beleive the dish washer is not doing it's job. Some folks on the internet say it's the water temp. I am not willing to raise the electric water heater for the dishwasher Also I've seen on the internet to use more soap when running the dishwasher. It does not matter, more soap, less soap,  I still get a white SOAP film on my dishes sometimes. When I use no soap, only vinegar, I get no film.

As far as a water softener. We took it out when we moved in. I am glad we did. To get rid of the softener in the trash we had to cut the tank up. It was just fiber glass. But you should have seen the gunk in that thing that your water flows through. YUCK Not to metion the salt. I'm sure there are newer and better softeners out there, but for now I want my dishwasher to work well.  I am not interested in a water softener.

In my home previous I had no name dishwashers. One that was there when I bought it, and one that I bought. They worked extreemly well. This previous home was 11 miles away, but a different water company. No well at either property.

I am not too worried about noise, although my hearing seems to be going.
I am interested in electric and water conservation.

Probably too much info., but what do you have experience in that may fit my needs?

Thanks for all your thoughts & ideas!

Beth


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## Mike Wilson (Nov 3, 2006)

Welcome to DishwasherNet.Com...

Buy a Bosch.

-- Mike


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## dbchris (Nov 3, 2006)

Mike Wilson said:
			
		

> Welcome to DishwasherNet.Com...
> 
> Buy a Bosch.
> 
> -- Mike



Hi Mike, Thanks for the direction to the Bosch. I've never heard of them. I'll do more research tomorrow on these dishwashers. Do you have any experience with them? As far as Dishwashernet.com, it seems like a good idea, however at this time I do not have a need for it.


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## begreen (Nov 3, 2006)

I wish I could help. We have a 20 year old Thermador. It has never given us a lick of trouble, so I haven't really kept up. But Bosch and Miele are good brands to look at.


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## elkimmeg (Nov 3, 2006)

dishwaxhers need maintance too just like you wood stove. It sounds like your drain is plugged and needs to be cleaned. What I do is  take odd the strainer cover 
and use the wet cycle on my shop Vac. I vac out the dirty water and crud accumulation. If all soapy water is not drained out before the rinse cycle, then it is being drawn up during the rinse


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## johnsopi (Nov 3, 2006)

Best dishwasher I ever had was cold water. Sure going to miss that dog.


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## CrazyAboutOrchids (Nov 3, 2006)

The film is from your hard water. If you have hard water and no water softener; it's also bad for your pipes, they will clog up like clogged arteries. All that stuff is also building up on the inside of your pipes where you can't see it and you can't rinse it away.Try a product like Glass Magic or Lemi-Shine (check Walmart) in your current dishwasher before you go out and replace your current dishwasher. Otherwise you will be spending lots of cash to end up with film with your new dishwasher as well since the water won't have changed. 

For dishwasher shopping, always take along your plates and pretend to load. Not all dishwashers will handle all dishes. Bosch is an okay brand; folks either love them or hate them, make sure you can get a repair man to work on them in your area. They are a European style dishwasher and the racks are 20" deep versus 23" for an American style dishwasher unless they have changed that recently. Whirlpool makes some Kenmore brands sold by Sears and Bosch now makes their TOL. Thermador is a rebranded Bosch with a higher price tag on it. Miele is a decent brand but super pricey, Asko is another good brand but expensive. I don't care for Maytag. I personally have a Kenmore which is manufactured by Whirlpool and one of their high end models, but not TOL and am super happy with it. Mine is a tall tub model with an adjustable top shelf. I can pack that baby up, no prerinsing at all only scraping the plates, I use 1/2 the recommendation of Cascade Complete since I have a water softener and rinse Aid. I use air dry and let her go. She's quiet, cleans well, hold a ton. Keep in mind new appliances aren't made like old appliances. Many people are more interested in the sound than the cleanliness and they aren't built to last like older appliances. 

Not sure what your water temp is in your hot water heater, but it does have to be at least a certain temp. If you replace make sure your new dishwasher has an internal heater and uses the cold water set up. Your cycles will run longer, but you can still have thehigh temps for the cleaning in the dishwasher while not heating up your entire hot water tank to that temp.


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## DavidV (Nov 3, 2006)

Looks like Sandy has obcessed as much about dishwashers as I have. We are nearing the end of a kitchen remodel.  7 months in the making.  Every purchase has been an obcessive PITA.  Bosch dishwasher are quiet and work great....BUT.  Unlike many other dishwashers they don't have a disposal built in so you have to empty a little basket that catches food particles every so often.  I was going to buy the Bosch but opted not to for that reason.  We had a lower line GE before and I hated it. Always had food stuck to the plates.  Rice.  Rice on everything.  You wouldn't think a family in central Virginia could eat so much rice but there always seemed to be rice on everything and almost half the time I pulled a glass out of the cabinets I would put it right back in the dishwaser because it had crap on it.  My wine glasses were always dull or dirty.    I went so far as to subscribe to consumer reports online when we were looking for our appliances.
I went with a high end Kenmore stainless. One of last years models so it was a bit easier on the pocketbook.  Clean dishes.  And I mean clean.  I barely hear it.  Sometimes you can't even tell that it's running.  Definately a good purchase.   I'd check out consumer reports.  2 issues back, I think did the appliances.  You should be able to find it at the library and lots of the info is available free on line.


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## Mike Wilson (Nov 3, 2006)

DavidV said:
			
		

> Looks like Sandy has obcessed as much about dishwashers as I have. We are nearing the end of a kitchen remodel.  7 months in the making.  Every purchase has been an obcessive PITA.  Bosch dishwasher are quiet and work great....BUT.  Unlike many other dishwashers they don't have a disposal built in so you have to empty a little basket that catches food particles every so often.  I was going to buy the Bosch but opted not to for that reason.  We had a lower line GE before and I hated it. Always had food stuck to the plates.  Rice.  Rice on everything.  You wouldn't think a family in central Virginia could eat so much rice but there always seemed to be rice on everything and almost half the time I pulled a glass out of the cabinets I would put it right back in the dishwaser because it had crap on it.  My wine glasses were always dull or dirty.    I went so far as to subscribe to consumer reports online when we were looking for our appliances.
> I went with a high end Kenmore stainless. One of last years models so it was a bit easier on the pocketbook.  Clean dishes.  And I mean clean.  I barely hear it.  Sometimes you can't even tell that it's running.  Definately a good purchase.   I'd check out consumer reports.  2 issues back, I think did the appliances.  You should be able to find it at the library and lots of the info is available free on line.



Interesting thing about the Bosch disposal basket in the bottom... in 4 years of ownership, we have never, ever, had anything in it to empty.  Bosch changed the way that system works a few years ago, and now it has some very high pressure water system that pulverizes everything inside the basket and blows it out with the waste water.  Seriously, I have never had anything in it, and I don't go crazy rinsing dishes before putting them in.  Also, I've never had a mechanical problem with it.  The one problem I do have, seriously, is the thing is too quiet.  I won't look to see if its on, open the door to put in a plate, and its mid-way through a cycle.  No water spillage, but a nice cloud of steam.  Anyway, to each his own, I love it, and my dishes fit in fine.

-- Mike


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## johnsopi (Nov 3, 2006)

I have a Kenmore and I think its great.  Our church has the same one as me and they wash dishes for @ 30 folks x3 a day.


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## brian_in_idaho (Nov 3, 2006)

Has anyone tried the Jen-Air dishwasher?  We just ordered appliances last weekend for our new build, our island kitched made a downdraft stove real appealing, some of the island range hoods are EXPENSIVE  Anyway, this pretty much dictated JA for the stove, we went the same route on the DW.  I usually research more than this, it was somewhat of a spur of the moment purchase this time.  Wife wanted stainless steel interior inside and these were less expensive than some.


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## Mike Wilson (Nov 3, 2006)

The first thing to go when we remodeled our kitchen was the Jenn-Air... completely useless stove.  Whoever thought running a BBQ in your kitchen was a good idea should be dragged out and shot on Emeril Live.

-- Mike


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## CrazyAboutOrchids (Nov 3, 2006)

I actually have a Jenn-Air cooktop, it's ancient. Has the regular spiral burner, not a flat cooktop - I can't stand those things. Has a griddle attachement which I love, particularly when I have my family here on holidays. Has a grill attachment which we don't use at all - we grill outside. I've heard some good and some bad about Jenn-Air quality, I have no clue on their dishwasher. I am quite happy with my Jenn-Air cooktop, but like I said, it's old. I will not replace it till it dies and then I will be quite sad.


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## dbchris (Nov 3, 2006)

Hi everyone! Thanks for your input. I have a lot of research to do. 

Sandy, I have a question re the hard water issue. The white film I have is an occasional weekly to biweekly problem.  If it was a hard water build up, wouldn't it be there every time I washed the dishes until I actually used a stripper of some kind to get the mineral deposits off? The white film comes off after I re-wash the dishes in the dish washer leading me to believe it is a soap residue not rinsing off properly. I will try the products you recommend before purchasing a new machine though. Thanks so much for pointing them out to me. I'd certainly hate to buy a new machine just to find out it is the hard water.

Thanks again everyone!


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## saichele (Nov 3, 2006)

Mike Wilson said:
			
		

> The first thing to go when we remodeled our kitchen was the Jenn-Air... completely useless stove.  Whoever thought running a BBQ in your kitchen was a good idea should be dragged out and shot on Emeril Live.
> 
> -- Mike



Weird.  Exactly the same experience.  And the vent was useless.  Replaced it with a nice mid-grade dual fuel, and love it.  

Steve


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## Webwidow (Nov 3, 2006)

> Jenn-Air cooktop


Off topic but I feel some past knowledge spilling out of my fingertips onto the screen. Watch out for the down drafting Jenn Air cook tops. They have been known to create a hostile environment for chimneys by creating a negative draft flow in the house. In other words chimneys that just don't draft well and smoke. Cracking a window is one way to assist with this problem. Or of course turn off the dang downdraft fan on the stove.


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## saichele (Nov 3, 2006)

Beth said:
			
		

> Hi everyone! Thanks for your input. I have a lot of research to do.
> 
> Sandy, I have a question re the hard water issue. The white film I have is an occasional weekly to biweekly problem.  If it was a hard water build up, wouldn't it be there every time I washed the dishes until I actually used a stripper of some kind to get the mineral deposits off? The white film comes off after I re-wash the dishes in the dish washer leading me to believe it is a soap residue not rinsing off properly. I will try the products you recommend before purchasing a new machine though. Thanks so much for pointing them out to me. I'd certainly hate to buy a new machine just to find out it is the hard water.
> 
> Thanks again everyone!



Might have to do with the timing of the water softener cycles.

Steve


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## Mike Wilson (Nov 4, 2006)

Webwidow said:
			
		

> > Jenn-Air cooktop
> 
> 
> Off topic but I feel some past knowledge spilling out of my fingertips onto the screen. Watch out for the down drafting Jenn Air cook tops. They have been known to create a hostile environment for chimneys by creating a negative draft flow in the house. In other words chimneys that just don't draft well and smoke. Cracking a window is one way to assist with this problem. Or of course turn off the dang downdraft fan on the stove.



Burning CHUNK... huh...  well, I suppose its better than Burning HUNK, like before    .... but if I called my wife a chunk, she'd kick my a$$!
Tell Craig to stop wasting his time posting that left wing drivel in the Ash Can, and start using that imagination of his to come up with something better than burning chunk!

-- Mike

PS - Jenn Air is not particularly high quality, although their marketing campaign implies they are.  I think Kitchen Aid is supposed to be good American stuff...  and Wolf if you are going to break the bank open.  The Jenn Air stove was useless, the downdraft was lame, but the GRIDDLE... as mentioned above, rescues that otherwise useless piece of kitchen junk and transforms it into the pancake machine!  Downside to that is another 10 pounds on the waist, all thanks to the convenience of making pancakes every morning...   ugh, and all the french toast...  and the eggs...   I can still feel my arteries crying for mercy!


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## tutu_sue (Nov 4, 2006)

Have a Kenmore Ultra with the stainless steel interior.  Very pleased with it and use china wash cycle most of the time - only 26 minutes or so.  Has a sensor to auto adjust wash time according to amount of soil in the water.  The Kenmore Ultra line is made in the Kitchen Aid factory - I compared my unit to the KA version next to it and were exactly the same but a couple hundred less Kenmore name.  The regular Kenmores are made in the Whirlpool factory and they get good ratings in Consumer Reports.  If you go to www.energystar.gov there is a list of dishwasher efficiency ratings.


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## CrazyAboutOrchids (Nov 6, 2006)

Not sure why the film would come and go. I do know htat both hard water and temps can cause film on glasses. Could be a combination of water temp and hard water. What is your hot water heater temp set at? Should be at 130, is it? If you so desire, try and see if there is any set situation that results in your film. To see if it is temp related, try making sure that your hot water heater has a decent supply of hot water and then run a load. In other words, make sure that you haven't been washing dishes, doing laundry, showering for a while so you know that the tank has a decent supply of hot water in it for your dishwasher cycle. Run it, is there film? Run it again after showering or laundry. Is there film? Try the products I recommended for hard water. Is there film? With a little detective work, you may save yourself the cost a new dishwasher.


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## wahsega (Nov 7, 2006)

Bosch is great.


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