# "Air Dryness question" from my wife....



## bostonfan49 (Nov 25, 2011)

We love our Evviro M55 insert...but my wife wants to know how (dry) the air is that is pouring out of the stove.How dry is the air? Assuming it is dry, what do people do to put moisture in the air....? We have no problem now, but curious as winter sets in. Thanks, Bill


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## jtakeman (Nov 25, 2011)

Any solid fuel appliance will dry the house air. So will many other forms of heat.

Might want to consider a humidifier to help keep the inside air moist. Or you could suffer from dry skin and sinus issues.


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## 76brian (Nov 25, 2011)

I have a stainless steel kettle that I fill with water and put on the top of the stove... the water gets hot and steams, and it gets empty once a day if the stoves running, so I know I'm putting moisture back in the air. Whether this will work for you or not would depend on your stove, they don't all get hot enough on top to do any good with water.

I haven't been able to make it boil yet though... when the colder weather gets here and I have a reason to just crank the stove, I'll have to see what I can do about that


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## DexterDay (Nov 25, 2011)

Get a humidifier.  Your gonna want one if your having problems now. I have a Large Lasko unit.


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## Countryboymo (Nov 25, 2011)

Just find a spray water bottle and set it as fine of a spray pattern as you can and give her a squirt in the face every so often.  I tried that method and after a few times I realized it was in my best interest to get a humidifier.


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## Freddels (Nov 25, 2011)

I use a whole house humidifier.  I thinks it's 14 gallons.  I got it at Sears for about $120 about 5 or 6 years ago.  With moisture in the air, it'll actually feel warmer in the house.


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## flynfrfun (Nov 25, 2011)

Yep, you will definitely want a humidifier.  We noticed much drier air in our house after installing our M55.  I did a lot of research and the biggest thing is to stay away from the ultrasonic misting types.  Get an evaporative style.  This one has been working great for us...
http://www.amazon.com/Lasko-1128-Ev...?s=home-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1322262578&sr=1-13


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## DexterDay (Nov 25, 2011)

flynfrfun said:
			
		

> Yep, you will definitely want a humidifier.  We noticed much drier air in our house after installing our M55.  I did a lot of research and the biggest thing is to stay away from the ultrasonic misting types.  Get an evaporative style.  This one has been working great for us...
> http://www.amazon.com/Lasko-1128-Ev...?s=home-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1322262578&sr=1-13



Thats the same Lasko I got. I love the refillable tank. Easy Peasy...


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## save$ (Nov 26, 2011)

You may want to invest in one of the electronic humidity monitors.  They can cost as little as six bucks.  
In addition to improved comfort and heating with proper humidity, you will also save your wooden cabinets etc that are bound to crack when the humidity drops below normal levels.  About 50 % is a good goal.  But, like your pellet stove which must be kept clean, so must your humidifiers.  Don't clean and you risk dreaded mold growing and spreading with all it's health hazards.   This humidity issue is NOT unique to pellet stoves.  It is a problem in most northern home with any conventional heating device.


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## briansol (Nov 26, 2011)

I have a cheap sears proatble unit, and i 'burn' a gallon of water a day to keep the house at 55% humidity.   I'm considering a 2nd unit, as i still wake up with dry mouth sometimes


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## DexterDay (Nov 26, 2011)

Normally go through about 3 gallons or more a day. Thats to stay between 45%-55%. Its 49% right now. Ordered 5 more wicks for the Lasko last month. Less than $30 and that should last about 5-10 yrs. As I am still using the original wick. Keep them clean. A bi-weekly regimen is what I clean mine on. Sometimes I go a month, but a little vinegar and water to soak the wick in (1 part vinegar to 4 parts water) and then I use that solution to wipe down the unit and run some through the pump and lines.


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## CygnusX1 (Nov 26, 2011)

My wife keeps a 2 quart cast iron kettle on the stove filled with water. You'd be amazed how quickly it evaporates.


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## briansol (Nov 26, 2011)

I ran a kettle/pot on the stove and it really did nothing for the dryness.   My stove doesn't really get hot up top though either.  i can put my hand on it and leave it there all day.


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## DexterDay (Nov 26, 2011)

I have a steamer kettle on the woodstove (Looks only/does very little). But in the Grand Scheme of things, a couple quarts a day won't do much. Its better than nothing. But to keep "normal" levels you need a large wicking unit that can pump gallons of moisture in the air. IMHO.


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## checkthisout (Nov 26, 2011)

The air coming out of the stove contains as much moisture as it when it went in.


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## DexterDay (Nov 26, 2011)

Checkthisout said:
			
		

> The air coming out of the stove contains as much moisture as it when it went in.



Not true. 

Drys the air. Hot dry air "burns" the moisture out of it. Much drier coming out. Same as a woodstove. The "Dry" heat takes the moisture out of the air.


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## checkthisout (Nov 26, 2011)

DexterDay said:
			
		

> Checkthisout said:
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Where does the moisture go?


I think the air is dry in the winter anyway but I think the moisture is lost due to heating the inside of the house against the cold outside air which would happen with any heating appliance.

Houses without vapor barriers tend to be worse.


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## DexterDay (Nov 26, 2011)

Checkthisout said:
			
		

> DexterDay said:
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Ever dry your hands under a Dryer in a restroom? The water (moisture) is heated and evaporated. But the cycle constantly repeats itself. That's why most here use some type of Humidifier to replenish the moisture that is burned out of the air. 

Common practice with any Solid fuel heating device. Yes other heating units cause a loss of moisture. Just at a slower/lower rate, as the temps from a forced air furnace are nowhere near the temps created by a pellet stove or woodstove. 
Cold air is dryer yes. But its multiplied when running your stove.

I am no expert, so of someone can explain it better. But the air going in the stove is not at the same moisture level coming out of the stove. This much I know. 

I use an OAK to make sure I dont pull in any Dry Cold air and also run a Humidifier to moisturize the air and make it feel warmer.


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## maple1 (Nov 26, 2011)

DexterDay said:
			
		

> Checkthisout said:
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Yes, but where does the moisture go off your hands when using a drier? Into the air, that's where - it doesn't disappear.

I think any reduction in overall humidity in a house in the winter is due more to the air movement between inside the house, and the drier outdoors. So if you're in a poorly insulated and air barriered house, you're going to have lower humidity levels.  I think the last thing I would do (not saying I wouldn't do it, just that it would be a last resort), would be to buy a humidifier. The first thing I would do is buy a humidity meter, as suggested above. No sense in guessing what your levels are, might as well know for sure. And I'd put it in a central location. The best solution to bettering a low humidity problem would be to improve insulation & air sealing - but that might be a long term project. Short term, I'd look at a kettle on the stove, venting my dryer to indoors, and reduction of use of bathroom venting fans replacing with other fans to improve overall air movement within the house. I just don't see the advantage in adding on another electricity consuming appliance if it could be avoided by keeping moisture that's already in the house, in the house, and reducing influx of outside air that's too dry (and cold). Then if all that fails, maybe I'd consider a humidifier - to tide over until I got my insulation & air barrier situation improved. We have never had one here, use a Venmar intermittently in the winter, and our inside humidity levels rarely go below 55 - but then again, the drier the climate you live in, the easier it would be for your interior humidity levels to fall lower.


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## helismash (Nov 26, 2011)

I just put in a humidifier last weekend and I must say, I was amazed by how long it ran to get the humidity back up to 35%.


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## DexterDay (Nov 26, 2011)

Do a google search on woodstoves or pellet stoves and dry air. They will all tell you how they "Dry" the air.  A stove pumping 250* air temps will dry a house quickly. I have a newer home with good insulation and new windows and I also have an Oregon Scientific Temp monitoring system. That monitors the temps in 3 rooms of the house, along with the humidity in those rooms.

Stoves dry the air. So does cold air. So do other heating devices. But to say stoves dont change the moisture level (humidity) in your home is false. They are constantly recycling the air. Runiing it through the exchange tubes numerous times throughout the day. Each time extracting more and more moisture.


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## nate379 (Nov 26, 2011)

50% humidity indoors? You guys are asking for mold and mildew to fester over the whole house!

Inside humidity should be based off outside temp.  The colder it is, less humidity.

This is a good chart to go off:

http://www.windowworld.com/resources/repair-center/prevent-fogging-condensation.php

Anything 50% or more is considered high humidity and it's not a good thing!

"High Humidity Problems

High levels of humidity (50% or more) in a house can result in mold and mildew, problems with dust mites causing allergic reactions, infestation by other bugs, flaking paint and peeling wallpaper."


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## fossil (Nov 26, 2011)

Water is neither created nor destroyed by a solid fuel-burning appliance (or any other sort of heater or cooler).  When we all talk about humidity, we're talking about _relative_ humidity (RH).  This is the amount of water in the air compared to the maximum amount of water the air could hold at whatever temperature it is, expressed as a percentage.  So, if the relative humidity is, say, 25%, that means the air contains 1/4 the moisture it could hold at its current temperature before being at its dew point (100% RH).  As the temperature of air increases, the molecular motion becomes more pronounced, so there's more room between air molecules to accomodate water molecules...so, without the introduction of additional water, the relative humidity goes down as the temperature of the air increases.  The actual (absolute) quantity of water hasn't changed.  Likewise, when air is cooled, molecular motion slows, leaving less room for water molecules so relative humidity increases...cool it down past the dew point, and water is going to condense out of the air on whatever surface is colder than the air.  This is why air coolers (what we commonly call Air Conditioners) need condensate drains...and our ice-cold beverages need coasters...think of it as "squeezing" out the water from the air.  Absent the introduction or removal of water by any other means, the relative humidity (which is a measure of comfort for us humans) decreases as air is heated, and increases as air is cooled...until the dew point is reached, when water is removed, then the cooling process results in decreased RH.  Hot air can accomodate more absolute water per unit volume (or weight) than cold air.  So...the air exiting from a heating appliance (doesn't matter what kind) has a lower relative humidity than it did when it entered.  The air exiting from a cooling appliance will have a higher relative humidity then when it entered...unless the appliance cools the air below its dew point and causes water to condense out, in which case the air coming out will be of lower relative humidity.


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## imacman (Nov 26, 2011)

This is what I use in the winter:


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## maple1 (Nov 27, 2011)

NATE379 said:
			
		

> 50% humidity indoors? You guys are asking for mold and mildew to fester over the whole house!
> 
> Inside humidity should be based off outside temp.  The colder it is, less humidity.
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None of those problems here - and I'm not agreeing with calling anything over 50% 'high humidity'. To me, anything under 60% is low humidity.

Hard to get & keep your indoor humidity at or below 50% when it's like this outdoors all year:

http://www.theweathernetwork.com/statistics/wind/cl8202000

Mileage will vary with location...


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## DBCOOPER (Nov 27, 2011)

What you missing is RELATIVE humidity. 50% relative humidity at 20 degrees f and 50% relative humidity at 70 degrees are two very different things. If I remember correctly the air can hold 100% more moisture by weight for every 20 degrees increase in temperature.

When you look at the humidity chart in the link you posted you'll see almost 80% for January. But then go look at the temperature chart for January.


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## krooser (Nov 27, 2011)

I keep an open bottle of Pabst on the stove so it can humidify the air and make the house smell like a tavern at the same time... cheaper than going out for a drink.

Now if I could only get that cuckoo clock to play some cheatin' songs........


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## CTYank (Nov 27, 2011)

Depending on how closely you want to monitor RH in one spot, HF sells a very nice combo 
RH, Temp, barometer for $10.

And, yes, 50% RH in the max-heated part of the house will result in condensation of high-e windows
of cooler rooms, around here. 35% works better, and yes I'm sensitive to low RH. 60% would be nuts IMHO.

One good way of boosting RH is to bring in some splits and stack them near the stove.
Don't need no steeeenkin mechanized spritzers.


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## St_Earl (Nov 27, 2011)

i agree with the guy who said the humidity doesn't change from the stove running.


the air in our house stays at the same rh by replacing moisture into the air directly from our throats and sinuses.


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## ducker (Nov 28, 2011)

we run a small humidifier next to the stove pretty much 24/7 otherwise the whole house just dries up.


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## lordgrinz (Nov 28, 2011)

Same here, and works great, just make sure its on a flat floor or the bottles don't like to drain correctly.



			
				imacman said:
			
		

> This is what I use in the winter:


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## St_Earl (Nov 28, 2011)

i'm running one of these vornado evaporative units. 
it also does a great job circulating the air and sets up a convection that scavenges the heat in the hot room and helps distribute it.
basically you can feel the heat usually trapped at the ceiling rolling out under the lintels due to the convection it creates.
it sits in front of the stove in the corner where the heat output first encounters a wall.
but this one is only rated for 1000 sq. feet. which is fine for our house. 

i went with evaporative because ultrasonic is pretty much out of favor because of the white dust problem. and because heated units use too much electricity
for my taste. don't want to be cutting into the savings i'm getting by using pellets instead of oil.
i'm also planning on starting to add a few drops of iodine to the water every few tanks to extend the filter life by keeping them disinfected.


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