# woodgun



## loggie (Feb 29, 2008)

Anyone out there using an AHS woodgun boiler?


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## BOOO (Mar 1, 2008)

Loggie
This is my fourth year with the woodgun. This is the best year I have had with it. By reading the Hearth forum have been abe to
fine tune it. Heat about 4700 sq ft ranch with full basement. Burner is in the pole barn.
Are you using a woodgun or thinking on buying?


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## antknee2 (Mar 2, 2008)

If you get a chance call Warne Bryant he is a Woodgun dealer and operates one to heat his home . Wayne sold me the Seton W-130 , he did not like the Seton or the Greenwood , he loves his Woodgun boiler .   If you speak to Wayne  let me know how he doing .Anthony

http://www.heatall.com/furnaces/woodgun.html


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## Eric Johnson (Mar 2, 2008)

I met Wayne at the NYS Farm Show recently. He showed me all around the Wood Gun. Very impressive wood gasification boiler. One thing he pointed out is that the draft is pulled through the firebox and secondary air supply--instead of being pushed like most other gasifiers with draft blowers. I'm not sure of the advantages of doing this, if any, but I suspect it's easier to control that way. From what I could see with the floor model, nice workmanship and design; big pricetag.


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## loggie (Mar 2, 2008)

Booo,I do not have a boiler yet I have been looking around a couple years and I will buy one soon and the woodgun and the garn are what I'm looking the hardest at.I am trying to do my homework and I'm finding a wealth of info here.The woodgun looks to me to be a good choice in the stainless version with no storage with 80gal inside.On the other hand you are close to the cost of a garn with storage built in.It seems you had to do your share of fiddling to take so long to be happy with your boilers performance.What are your observations at this point.Are you able to burn large chunk wood?I want to put the unit in my walkout basement what are your thoughts on this.I'm thinking the woodgun in the steel version with homemade storage if I go that route, thanks


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## BOOO (Mar 2, 2008)

loggie When I installed my woodgun I had zero "0" experience with wood furnaces. Tried burning half dried and green wood,would puke back out the air intake, there is
still black stain on the wall 4 ft away. Would open damper all the way and it back puffed. My chimney was all wrong. Tried summer potable hot water, to short of cycle without storage.
Them short cycles would load the burner with creosote. Large chunks of wood burn real good and so do small pieces, save my big chunks for all nighters.
If you put the wood gun in your walk out you will definitely want the smoke hood over the furnace door for smoke and gas. Am working on storage for the
summer right now 
If you start out knowing about gasification you will be happy.


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## loggie (Mar 4, 2008)

Is there only one woodgun user on this forum?


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## PAPROUD (Mar 4, 2008)

What about price?  Anyone willing to say what they cost?


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## Stlshrk (Mar 4, 2008)

Does anyone use a woodgun with additional storage?


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## renewablejohn (Mar 5, 2008)

Has anybody used a woodgun with thermal oil instead of water as the heat transfer fluid.


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## Eric Johnson (Mar 5, 2008)

Welcome to the Boiler Room, renewablejohn. I believe you're our first member from the UK. Hopefully the first of many.

We've discussed alternatives to water around here in the past, and the general consensus is that while you might see some marginal benefit from oil or parafin or some other alternative, you get a lot more bang for the buck (or Euro, even) with plain water. I guess it would depend to some extent on how much water you're talking about, but 1,000 gallons of any kind of oil is going to be a lot more expensive and potentially harder to handle than free water.

The Wood Gun is actually a brand of wood gasifier made in Pennsylvania. It has a somewhat different design than the European-style downdraft gasifiers many of us have, but it's not all that different.

I'm curious what your options are for gasification boilers on your side of the pond. What are some of your options?


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## renewablejohn (Mar 5, 2008)

Eric

Thanks for the welcome I have only ventured once before over the pond to the practical machinist site. there is a similar site in the UK which by the looks of it has covered most of your subjects but from a European perspective. The site is actually operated by a renewable energy supplier but the forum has reached a cult status although the views expressed may upset some of your forum members. 

www.navitron.org.uk

sign up as a member and you will see loads on gasification boilers etc available in europe

The reason for the thermal oil heating is that we have in europe a steam generator which converts thermal oil at 260C-300C into steam at 150PSI without the dangers associated with a wet steam boiler. Hence all the steam engine technology of 100 years ago becomes available for the domestic market what is required is a small boiler like the woodgun suitably modified hence the reason for joining the forum.


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## Eric Johnson (Mar 5, 2008)

Thanks for the link, John. Pretty cool. Just what I need--another wood gasification forum.

I'm not sure that the AHS Wood Gun is all stainless steel. I think it may be just the firebox, not the entire pressure vessel. I'm trying to think of another ss gasification boiler, but can't at the moment.

I'll have to check out that site in more detail. Hopefully we can get some cross-cultural exchanges going. I don't know what could be controversial about wood gasification, but I guess we'll see.

What do you heat with?


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## renewablejohn (Mar 5, 2008)

Eric

We have an Esse wood cooker with central heating back boiler and a Yeoman woodstove with back boiler also linked in to the central heating accumulator tank.

The Yeoman is useless and will be replaced with a wood pellet stove once we start manufacturing wood pellets.

I am struggling to get a response from AHS with regard to there woodgun being able to use thermal oil. are they always slow at responding


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## Eric Johnson (Mar 5, 2008)

I've never had any luck getting any response from them.


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## leaddog (Mar 5, 2008)

I can't speak for wood gun but alot of the manufacturs over here are having a hard time keeping up as gasification is new here and there is a huge demand for education. I don't have a wood gun as I have an eko80 (orlan) but looked at the wood gun and they are a very well build unit. 
I just joined your forum and hope to learn.
leaddog


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## loggie (Mar 6, 2008)

I got some prices on the woodguns in 06, they went up in the stainless version considerably,and this prompted them to build a steel model the 06 prices were $6896.00 for the 100 $7977.00 for the 140 and $8459.00 for the 180 all in stainless.An interesting thing about them is for about $1500.00 more they include a oil fired backup unit internal to the boiler using the same chimney as the gasifier section.This could be very good for someone who has only one chimney.If I didn't already have an oil boiler I would go that way.I could even pick up the unit in PA and save the shipping,but I am leaning to the garn.thanks for all your replys.


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## Stlshrk (Mar 6, 2008)

They are now offering steel and stainless lines.  The price is basically about $2k more for the stainless firebox at most sizes.  

I guess it is impossible to say for sure, but ... entertain anyway please.  If an install included pressurized storage on the loop that feed to and from the furnace (at least that portion of the system under pressure) *and* also included a mixing valve on the furnace return line to keep temps above 120 degrees.  (that is the # I've been reading)  Then the benefit of the stainless unit would be much less?  Figuring that storage would allow for a full burn cycle rather than toggling off and on.  And the higher return temps assisting the unit in avoiding corrosion resulting from lower temps.  Correct thinking or am I missing something here?


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## Eric Johnson (Mar 6, 2008)

As I recall, the Wood Gun used to be called the Eshland, and they had a big problem with the boilers corroding out before their time. The company was sold and one of the fixes they made was the use of stainless steel. Since the Wood Gun uses somewhat different technology than a conventional downdraft gasifier (draft air is drawn instead of being pushed, it has an ash cyclone, etc.) there may be something about the design that was causing the problems that the use of stainless somehow fixes.

But in a typical boiler of almost any type, if you can keep return water temps above 140 when it's operating, low return water temp corrosion shouldn't be an issue. From what I've been told, it's less of a concern with cast iron, but still possible.

What many people don't realize about low temp corrosion is that it happens inside the firebox, not inside the water jacket. And in a typical wood-fired boiler, the return water inlet is right about in the spot where chunks of wood tend to bang into the back of the firebox if you're not careful throwing wood in--or you let some teenage boy do it. They ring the bell every time.


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## Redox (Mar 6, 2008)

Hey R J!

Just as a reality check, what are you paying for petrol over there?  Diesel just went to $3.75 a gallon here after that refinery incident down in Texas last month.

Not trying to hijack the thread...


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## renewablejohn (Mar 6, 2008)

Redox

Stop complaining in the UK Diesel is £1.09 per litre convert that to dollars and your funny gallons and then start laughing at us for paying such a stupid price.

Back to the thread. I am interested in the stainless because of the perceived corrosion problems associated with low temperatures and also Thermal oil can  be corrosive which is why industrial process industry always uses stainless as there first choice of material.


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## leaddog (Mar 6, 2008)

renewablejohn said:
			
		

> Redox
> 
> 
> Back to the thread. I am interested in the stainless because of the perceived corrosion problems associated with low temperatures and also Thermal oil can  be corrosive which is why industrial process industry always uses stainless as there first choice of material.



Just a question as I don't know much about thermal oil but is that the same oil that they use in transformers? Not the oil with PCB's but the new stuff. I have a neighbor that scraps transformers and he gives it away to people that burn waste oil. Maybe there is a market?????????
leaddog


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## renewablejohn (Mar 6, 2008)

leaddog

does not matter what the oil is so long as it can cope with temperatures of 260C to 300C. I would imagine transformers are kept at a lower temperature than this.


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## Eric Johnson (Mar 6, 2008)

See how long your pex, pumps and other equipment lasts at those temps.


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## kimko (Mar 6, 2008)

I installed a S.S. 1/2 mill btu woodgun and in 3 months we are already experiecing ceramic failure , company says warrany is invalad due to high loading and constant firing , have gone through about 20 cord wood , client didnt have a pre seasoned wood supply (and may never at that rate). Nice design though. I see a couple of companies are selling outdoor dropin replacements for the inefficient smokers.


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## Eric Johnson (Mar 6, 2008)

Welcome to the Boiler Room, kimko. What kind of ceramic failure--in the nozzles or another part of the combustion chamber?


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## kimko (Mar 6, 2008)

nozzles are done , tubes are flaking with fibers showing.It does take a likin , 1st yr green house application and needs to tighten up his thermal losses but unit just does the load now ,btw its nw ontario, he wants to tie in the storage but I think it will increase his losses at least right now .


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## renewablejohn (Mar 6, 2008)

Kimko

have you had any experience of the woodchip auto feed woodgun as I am looking to operate it on a 24/7 basis hopefully using thermal oil if I can get a response out of ahs.


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## firebird400 (Mar 7, 2008)

i had just got prices today on the woodgun from ahs  e140 asme cerifed was 8900.00 e180 was 10,380 for asme certified 2000 less un certified   just a note


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## kimko (Mar 7, 2008)

Never chips, but if you had a good source of chips it would make life alot easier,and probably get a more consistent burn. 
For the price of the wood gun I feel you get alot more for your money than its compeditors.


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## Stlshrk (Mar 7, 2008)

those are one of the boilers I've been gathering on as well.  These are the prices in cert steel or non cert ss, just to note for the readers that may have thought those were the ss cert prices.  like firebird said, take off $2k for non cert steel, or add another $2k for cert ss.


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## Como (Mar 7, 2008)

Petrol (Gas) unleaded is about $8 a US Gallon.

An interesting site, bookmarked.

I think I predate as far as English is concerned, but lose out on location.


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## Redox (Mar 7, 2008)

And we're all worried about $3-4 a gallon.  SHEESH!

As far as the UK forum, it looks like a lot more involved than just wood combustion.  Thanks for the lead renewablejohn; I needed a new time sink!

If i may be so bold, what kind of "views" are we Yanks going to run into?  We're all in this together and the way I see it, Europe is a little ahead of the curve, IMHO.

Cheers!

Chris


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## renewablejohn (Mar 7, 2008)

I would suggest starting a new thread for this discussion as I dont want to hijack this one. I am seriously thinking of buying a  woodgun but I would like some reassurance that problems kimko had do not occur on a regular basis and ahs are doing something positive about it.


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## Como (Mar 7, 2008)

I was over in the UK last November and as we have a major project just starting had a ook at was available. I wish I had been able to go to the Eco show a couple of weeks back.

And here is me wishing I could access stuff available in the UK and you looking at stuff in the US, from what I know about the Wood Gun I do not think it is your solution but I am no expert. If you look on this board you will see quite a few people wishing they could get hold of Eastern European stuff, where I am is more similar climatically.

Such is life.

And as far as the UK Boards are concerned, for example taking the piss is a national sport, in the US people can take it the wrong way I try and be bery conservative in my language with people who do not know my ways.


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## Eric Johnson (Mar 7, 2008)

I'll be happy to start a new thread, renewablejohn, but I wouldn't know what to call it. "Why would the Brits want to get into a pissing contest with the Yanks on the topic of renewable energy?" maybe?

Back to the topic at hand, I spent part of my commute to work this morning pondering the implications of a pinhole leak in a pressure vessel full of oil, specifically if said pinhole was in the firebox. You've given us some rather cryptic bits of information so far, but I don't have a clear picture of what you're talking about. Can you lay it out in some detail? Does the whole pressure vessel need to be stainless steel, for example, or just the firebox?


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## renewablejohn (Mar 7, 2008)

eric

the storage tank containing the thermal oil would need to be stainless with stainless feed and return to the steam evaporator the thermal oil pumped by a high temperature thermal oil pump. does not need to be at high pressure as the pressure is raised in the steam evaporator due to the difference in temperature between the thermal oil and water. As for a pinhole leak you would pressure test the storage tank prior to putting in the thermal oil. Lots of industry particularly in italy are using thermal oil and yes it does make a mess if it is allowed to escape but you could say the same for steam.

Durango

problem with a lot of european stuff is that it is to sophisticated having a lot of electronics near the water jacket which at 100C is not a problem but when you increase the jacket temperature to 260C to 300C all your sophisticated electronics melt.


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## NickR (Mar 8, 2008)

I am building a cabin and researching various gasifiers.  I am not in the biz and have no ax to grind.   I have spoken with Jeff Gingerich at AHS (717 987 0099) several times and have found him readily available and very helpful. From my conversations, I can get the stainless version (not certified) of the 100,000 BTU unit with all the appropriate accessories for around $11,000- $12,000 with shipping. Don't understand why you guys find them hard to reach.


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## Redox (Mar 8, 2008)

I have only heard about thermal oil sytems used for a few very specialized applications.  We're still stuck in the steam era on this side of the pond.  I have seen high temp hot water systems, but they make me nervous.  Something about 350F water at 400psig i find really intimidating.

We do have district heating plants in come larger cities, and Baltimore has a district chilled water system downtown, but this "technology" isn't really spreading.  The Scandinavians are way ahead of us there...

Frying sophisticated electronics is fun!  I like to do it as least once a week.  Most electronics can be moved and "ruggedized" when necessary.  I would be more concerned with what's going on in the heat exchanger.  Why not just use low pressure steam?  Its technology that has stood the test of time.  

I haven't heard much chatter on here about Chiptec http://www.chiptec.com/  I believe their gasifier will bolt up to just about anybody's boiler or heat exchanger.


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## Eric Johnson (Mar 8, 2008)

Chiptec has done a lot of work with small to medium sized industrial chip burners in Vermont. They've done a couple of schools that I've seen. They're well thought of in the forest products industry, too.


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## renewablejohn (Mar 8, 2008)

Nickr

the reason ahs have not responded might be because i am uk based or as redox says my request of using thermal oil is not standard in the US.

Redox

Chiptec looks very interesting I will be contacting them shortly.


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## leaddog (Mar 8, 2008)

this is a site of a new gasifier and they mentioned that they were working on using oil for steam generation. They are in the working proto type stage.

http://www.biomizer.com/

It looks interesting
leaddog


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## BOOO (Mar 9, 2008)

Bought my wood gun from Jeff Gingerich at AHS. Have called him many times.  He has always taken time to answer my questions or return my calls. My experience with him and his 
wife have been nothing but positive.


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