# septic smell on cold days



## TheSmith

I live in a rural area and have a septic system on the property.I noticed when the temp. outside is extremely cold (20 or below) there is a smell of sewer gas.it comes and goes and isnt that strong, but it concerned me since I never noticed it before.I had my tank recently pumped so I called the septic co back, the explanation given to me was sewer gas is heavier than air and in cold temps tends to drop down to ground level faster.I have no problems with slow drains or anything along those lines so everything seems to be working fine.after googling the prob I found the same explanation the septic co told me.Im just wondering if anyone else has had this issue.Its also tough to determine if the smell is even coming from my system.I have 2 neighbors somewhat close to me that could have a issue.The smells wanders and next thing you know its gone so I cant really pin point it.


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## Highbeam

The only way for the gas to exit your septic system is throught the vent stacks on your roof. Go on up and take a wiff. Seriously, you don't need to stuff your nose in the pipe but kind of sniff near it and fan the fumes onto your face. Everyone's tank smells different and you'll recongize it. 

I assume the smell is outside. If the smell is inside then you have plumbing issues.


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## Ridgefire

Ok real dumb question on septic tanks. Is it normal for the snow to melt over the tank itself? I noticed there is no snow directly over the tank


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## Sandor

Smith,

The smell is coming from the vent. Not unusual in the winter with the right wind and falling barometer. Happens at my house several times per year.

Ridgefire,

Septic tanks can be close to the surface. Your dumping (no pun intended) warm water in there. Combine that with the decomposition process that generates heat, and snow may melt on top of the tank. Ever see compost piles steam on cool mornings?


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## TheSmith

Highbeam said:
			
		

> The only way for the gas to exit your septic system is throught the vent stacks on your roof. Go on up and take a wiff. Seriously, you don't need to stuff your nose in the pipe but kind of sniff near it and fan the fumes onto your face. Everyone's tank smells different and you'll recongize it.
> 
> I assume the smell is outside. If the smell is inside then you have plumbing issues.



the smell is outside, and yes I have had the pleasure of smelling the sewer vent, I was just concerned since I never noticed this before and I have been in this home for several years.The family is a little larger now so maybe that has something to do with it.Septic problems are never fun, and in the winter its even worse so I was concerned, but hearing other people have had this happen puts my mind a little at ease.


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## Harley

You could also try extending the vent pipe a little bit with a piece of PVC.  Not that it will fix the problem, but it may be enough to carry the odor a little farther from the house so you don't notice it.  

The occaisional smell is not unusual and does depend on air pressure, wind, etc.


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## scfa99

Ridgefire said:
			
		

> Ok real dumb question on septic tanks. Is it normal for the snow to melt over the tank itself? I noticed there is no snow directly over the tank



yes its normal, i wondered the same thing and asked the guy when I had the tanked cleaned.


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## pegdot

If you really think it's your tank that's causing the smell you might want to get some Rid-X and treat it. Could be that the enzyme & bacteria levels are too low after the pumping.


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## BJN644

pegdot said:
			
		

> If you really think it's your tank that's causing the smell you might want to get some Rid-X and treat it. Could be that the enzyme & bacteria levels are too low after the pumping.



I was told Rid-X type products can actually be harmfull to a septic system. The reason given was the stuff does what it says, breaks down solids, but breaks them down small enough to be transported out in the liquid that goes to the drainage field, plugging it up. Just something I read somewhere and it made sense to me.


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## pegdot

Never heard that. We've been using it for 20 years now, although I'll admit that I often forget to do it every month, with no problems. Just two people in the house but we've yet to have to pump the tank. No problems with the drain lines that I'm aware of but since our house is at the top of a hill the lines do have the extra benefit of some downward angle.


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## nshif

pegdot said:
			
		

> Never heard that. We've been using it for 20 years now, although I'll admit that I often forget to do it every month, with no problems. Just two people in the house but we've yet to have to pump the tank. No problems with the drain lines that I'm aware of but since our house is at the top of a hill the lines do have the extra benefit of some downward angle.


The lines in the leech field should be level reguardless of the slope of the ground so that the liquid drains off over the entire run not concentrated at the low end. 
I know people that use RidX and have no problems. I just dump a packet or 2 of yeast down the drain every once in awhile seems to work ok.
I too notice a sewer smell on occasion usually if the wind is just right and its cold.
Snow does sit over my tank but its pretty deep (top os about 4' under)


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## homebrewz

[/quote] "I just dump a packet or 2 of yeast down the drain every once in awhile seems to work ok." [/quote]

Thats interesting. I had never considered this before. I wonder if all of the spent yeast from homebrewing I dump down the drain improves the 
biological activity in the septic tank?


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## nshif

Not sure if its an old wives tale but Ive heard it from alot of old timers some who have tanks almost 30 years old that have never been pumped


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## BJN644

Here are some tips, # 10 in particular.

Septic system tips


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## TheSmith

I use rid-x every 2-3 months or so.I too have used yeast from the kitchen cupboard.


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## TheSmith

homebrewz said:
			
		

> Thats interesting. I had never considered this before. I wonder if all of the spent yeast from homebrewing I dump down the drain improves the
> biological activity in the septic tank?



this may be a great excuse to get into home brewing "honey Im helping the septic system out"


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## nshif

BJN644 said:
			
		

> Here are some tips, # 10 in particular.
> 
> Septic system tips



Guess the yeast thing is an old wives tale. guess Ill make more bread then


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## cmonSTART

Wow am I glad I found this post.  I too experienced the same thing within the past couple days and it had me paranoid that when the snow melted, I was going to find some sort of septic disaster in my yard.  

whew!!


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## velvetfoot

Nice link, thanks.


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## Highbeam

You don't need to dump anything special down into your septic tank. It is a wive's tale and commercial myth. You can't really hurt anything with these additivies though so no harm done except to your pocketbook. There are way more than enough bugs in one lump of poo to activate the whole system and even the kills  done by a typical application of bleach as your cleaning agent won't slow the reaction down. Now if you dump gallons of straight bleach down your drain then you may really screw things up. Oh, and yes, you do need to have your tank pumped. Nomatter how many bugs are eating your poo due to the fancy yeast you might be adding you will still have sludge left over. Nothing eats the mineral ash that will accumulate just as if you incinerated the poo. 

"The lines in the leech field should be level reguardless of the slope of the ground so that the liquid drains off over the entire run not concentrated at the low end"

True, you want the leech lines to be level but don't be thinking that this will evenly distibute the tank effluent. Gravity leech lines are doomed to failure since the effluent will pour out of the first or lowest perforation in the pipe until that particular area is overloaded and then the effluent backs up to the next hole. The only way to evenly distribute the effluent is by pressure distribution which is superior in many ways including dosing of your drainfield. I always recommend placing the drainfield at a lower elevation that the tank. Septic systems can fail and when they do you will want to have treated effluent rising from the drainfiled area long before you have the septic tank backing sewage up into your home. Have you ever had to open a septic tank lid that was full of sewage and under pressure?

Poo is my bread and butter.


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## homebrewz

Is there anyway to tell when a tank is getting to the point where it needs to be pumped without opening it up?
If not, what is the average lifetime of a tank before it needs to be pumped?


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## 'bert

My tank is over 8' under ground and I notice that there is much less snow covering it.  There is usually almost no snow on the lid to the tank itself.


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## cmonSTART

Highbeam said:
			
		

> Poo is my bread and butter.



Anyone else still stuck on this?  eew...


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## Ridgefire

cmonSTART said:
			
		

> Highbeam said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Poo is my bread and butter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone else still stuck on this?  eew...
Click to expand...



Yeah but I didnt want to say anything


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## Highbeam

It's a pretty cruddy business but dealing with sewage is big business. In my early days I would design the onsite systems and write the operating manuals. I am more into converting people to city sewers now but I am still fond of onsite disposal. Maybe it is the independence of the whole thing, just like wood burning. A guy with a private well and a septic is free of some bills and also independent of failures in those systems.

Anyway, you need to pull the lid (s) off of your septic tank to measure the accumulation of scum and sludge. Usually the sludge is the first to exceed normal limits and the best way that I have found is to use a rake to feel the top of the sludge then srive the handle to the bottom to measure depth. Don't fall in since they can be 5-6 feet deep. Don't be shocked that it looks full, the tank is supposed to be full at all times but only sertain amounts of sludge and scum. The books say to use a long white rag attached to the tip of a poke stick and push the poke stick to the bottom. The sludge will make a nearly black mark on the white rag since the sludge is quite thick. As the sludge accumulates on the bottom and scum accumulates on the top - your clear zone, the actual working part, of the septic tank gets smaller and smaller and less efficient at seperating the solids from teh water. Before messing with measuring I would go ahead and have it pumped if it has been more than 5-7 years or so. The pumping man will be able to tell you how much longer you could have waited. Best to be conservative and pump too often since sending sludge out in to your drainfield can ruin it and that's when the costs start building up. There is no penalty for too frequent pumping except pumping costs.


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## ansehnlich1

A septic tank should be pumped at least every 2 years. Those that have tanks that have not been pumped for 20 or 30 years are lucky to have a still functioning drain field. Those drain fields are likely in areas where the soil is remarkably capable of filtering effluent. Most septic systems fail when solids get past the baffles in the tank and enter the drain field, thereby clogging the drain lines. 

Rid X is not a miracle cure. Pumping your tank on a regular basis is the best thing you can do for a septic system. Now if there are only 2 people living in a home, you could go longer, but if there are 5 or 6 living there, you should pump it more often. 

Anyway, when I hear people say they have not pumped the tank in 20 years I get this feeling in my gut that what we have is likely a sluggish, nearing the end of it's life, drain field. There are exceptions but the exceptions are few.

NOW, back to the odor thing. Do you or your neighbors have a grey water line? This would be a line where sink and laundry water are discharged to either a dry well, or to the surface. Where septic systems are failing people often do this to keep excess water from flowing into the septic drain field. These grey water lines can often emit a pretty foul odor to say the least.

My other suspicions are that your tank has yet to fill with water which could be the cause of the odor coming up through the tank lid.

Or, you have effluent rising to the surface due to a failed drain field. If your drain field is really green during times of drought, this is a sign of a slow field, if you have effluent at the surface this is a sign of a failed field.

Did any water pour into your tank after or while it was being pumped???


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## fishboat

I've run a septic system for just a few years however I'm finding that if you have showers or sinks that don't get frequent use you need to run some water every week-ten days to keep the traps full.  Of course this is also true of a standard sewerline system.  I've had some interior odor on occasion & I've localized it to one bathroom shower that isn't used much...or the AC condensate drain in the basement.   I run water in both when I think out it.  It's dryer inside in the winter & my traps seem to evaporate more.

I have had an occasional whiff outside when the wind is in the north...system is on the north side of the house.

As for not pumping a system in 20 years...I hope the money you would have spent on pumping is going into a mutual fund, you may need it.  Mine's pumped every three years, whether I choose to or not...local ordinance...though I'd do it anyway.  I'm not at all interested in replacing the system.  The last pump/inspection guy said all's-well...and all additives at best do no harm, but are a waste of money.

..as for brewer's yeast...I brewed for years.  Ale yeast will go dormant at septic temps & lager yeast MAY have a chance at 40-50F, but not much.  Brewer's yeast is looking for simple sugars to work on..your body has pretty much consumed them on the first pass through.  Now if you want to dump lots of brewer's yeast in to the septic, have it pumped, dry it out, & pelletize the solids...you could call it Milorganite fertilizer like Milwaukee does.


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## TheSmith

My smell is outside, not near the tank really, im pretty sure it is coming from the vent.My septic co adds water back to the tank after it is pumped also.Its been warmer up here the past few days, and no smell.only in a extreme cold snap has it been noticable.


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## Highbeam

It is good that your pumper adds water to the empty tank. Without that water you could have a little problem with flotation of that large boat you call a septic tank. Same with swimming pools in areas of high groundwater.

Pumping every two years won't hurt but is certainly not needed. The local agencies come up with a worst case scenario and then assign an interval, typically three years, for pumping. This interval is obviously very conservative to account for the overloaded systems. A well taken care of modern system that is not overloaded can easily go ten years. This has risk though and the penalty is severe. I would rather check my tanks and avoid pumping until it is necessary. MOST folks will not be checking their sludge levels and so should give in to the short 3 year or so pump.


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## reaperman

Every septic pumper carries, (or should carry) a device designed to check the sludge layer in the tank  Its a clear plastic tube with a round ball inside that is designed to accurately check the sludge layer.  It is much more accurate than a garden rake.  They have been around for many years.  And yes, your tank should be pumped every 3 years.  There is no such thing as a properly maintained septic tank as long as there are women and children in a house.  The average water consumption for a three bedroom home is 600 gallons/day.  Sounds unlikely, but according to the University of Minnesota extension, these numbers are in line with reality.


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## Sandor

reaperman said:
			
		

> There is no such thing as a properly maintained septic tank as long as there are women and children in a house.  .



TRUE!

I lived alone in a house in Maryland for 10 years and never pumped the tank, until I sold it. During the septic inspection, they pumped the tank... there was less than a foot of sludge.

Moved in with the women over two years ago, with her two daughters. Her tank was never pumped for ten years!

Whoa! The "Puddin" was close to the septic tank discharge, like 4-5 feet of sludge.

During the pumping process, the sucker kept clogging..... with.....tampons! Hundreds of them!

So:

1. Reaperman is correct
2. Educate the wife/girls about proper disposal of their stuff. (You can tell by the yellow wrappers in the trash can)
3. Hire a Honeysucker with a modern rig with enough sucking power so you don't end up with a pile of crappy tampons in the front yard.
4. Go to the local bar while the sucking process is going on. Have the wife inspect the pumping process and deal with any issues.


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## velvetfoot

I would have to agree with #4.  Talk about stinky.  Whew!

It also helps to know where to dig for the cover.
Luckily I had accurate drawings, but now I also have a marker.


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## Highbeam

That's freaking hilarious! Did he leave you a mountain of pooey used tampons in your front yard? I would have left them there for a week as a reminder to the women of the house, ha!

4-5' of puddin.....


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## velvetfoot

Then there was this article today:

Man stuck upside-down in septic tank
The Associated Press

DES MOINES, Iowa --It was a stinky holiday for Robert Schoff.

The 77-year-old man spent part of Christmas Eve stuck upside down in the opening of his septic tank, with his head inside and his feet kicking in the air above.

"It wasn't good, I'll tell you what," Schoff said Tuesday. "It was the worst Christmas Eve I've ever had."

Schoff reached into the tank Monday in an effort to find a clog, but he lost his balance and got wedged into the opening.

The 5-foot-5-inch, 135-pound Schoff hollered and screamed for help, but it was an hour before his wife, Toni, walked by a window and saw his feet in the air.

"I saw these kicking feet and ran out, but couldn't get him out," Toni Schoff said.

She called 911 and two Polk County sheriff's deputies yanked her husband out of the tank.

"I thought it was the end of my life," Schoff said. "Thank God my wife saw me. I don't think I could have stood staying in there much more."


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## Harley

Ridgefire said:
			
		

> cmonSTART said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Highbeam said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Poo is my bread and butter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone else still stuck on this?  eew...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah but I didnt want to say anything
Click to expand...


Actually, mine too, although I don't get out in the field much at all.  The worst I usually have to do is go out in the lab and squeeze some samples if there's no one else around and a bid is due.


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## triptester

In some states septic systems are required to be pumped out a minimum of once every three years by code.

I had a similar problem with occasional septic smell and was able to eliminate it by extending the vent pipe above the roof peak.


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## Sandor

Highbeam said:
			
		

> That's freaking hilarious! Did he leave you a mountain of pooey used tampons in your front yard? I would have left them there for a week as a reminder to the women of the house, ha!
> 
> 4-5' of puddin.....



Walked far into the woods with a pitchfork. Yikes!


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## Wolves-Lower

As far as checking sludge depth. I use what is called a "Sludge Judge". This is a basic clear tube that has a ball relief. In essence it is just like a straw and finger.

I feel fortunate because I intalled a new system last year. I thought I was going to really get stroked. It cost me 2k. And the best part was no leach field. I used a system called a dry well.
My installed also put a filter at the effluent end that I can change out every two years.


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## DiscoInferno

Wolves-Lower said:
			
		

> I feel fortunate because I intalled a new system last year. I thought I was going to really get stroked. It cost me 2k. And the best part was no leach field. I used a system called a dry well.
> My installed also put a filter at the effluent end that I can change out every two years.



Maybe you don't mean what I'm thinking of, but I thought that dumping sewage into a dry well was illegal in most places.


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## Wolves-Lower

> Maybe you don’t mean what I’m thinking of, but I thought that dumping sewage into a dry well was illegal in most places.




Perhaps I should clarify. 
A Seepage pit. Round tank with River Rock in the bottom and holes in the side to leach the effluent.
See pic.
And yes, into an abandoned well would be illegal.
Dry wells are much easier to maintain.


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## velvetfoot

Interesting.  I didn't know that was possible.


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## DiscoInferno

Wolves-Lower said:
			
		

> And yes, into an abandoned well would be illegal.



I wasn't thinking of an abandoned water well.  A "dry well" to me meant an essentially unlined man-made cavity (covered pit) in the ground with a pipe dumping into it and no septic tank in between.  My grandfather's cottage had one before modern septic systems became the norm.  What you're showing just seems like an alternative to a drain field.


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## Wolves-Lower

> I wasn’t thinking of an abandoned water well.  A “dry well” to me meant an essentially unlined man-made cavity (covered pit) in the ground with a pipe dumping into it and no septic tank in between.  My grandfather’s cottage had one before modern septic systems became the norm.  What you’re showing just seems like an alternative to a drain field



That sounds like a small lagoon?
The funny thing about my old septic system was that it was an old VW bus! I am not kidding!
They put a concrete baffle down the middle of it, and burried it.
Bad Bad Bad!


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## TheSmith

wow and I thought my steel 50 gallon drum as a seepage pit they found when they replaced mine was unusuall! was it the camper model?


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## reaperman

Wolves-Lower said:
			
		

> Maybe you don’t mean what I’m thinking of, but I thought that dumping sewage into a dry well was illegal in most places.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps I should clarify.
> A Seepage pit. Round tank with River Rock in the bottom and holes in the side to leach the effluent.
> See pic.
> And yes, into an abandoned well would be illegal.
> Dry wells are much easier to maintain.
Click to expand...


What state do you live in?  That type of system was used many years ago (50+), sometimes with more than one seepage tank.  Now they are not legal in many states.  Most states require the bottom of the drainfield to be no deeper than 4 feet, and must be at least 3 feet above any sign of groundwater.  Making many system very shallow or even mound systems.  The filter on the outlet end of the tank is nice, but I would make sure you clean it more often than 2 year intervals.  Otherwise you may find your basement floor doesnt make a very nice drainfield.  I'd clean it (rinse with garden hose) at least every 6 months.


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## Wolves-Lower

> What state do you live in?  That type of system was used many years ago (50+), sometimes with more than one seepage tank.  Now they are not legal in many states.  Most states require the bottom of the drainfield to be no deeper than 4 feet, and must be at least 3 feet above any sign of groundwater.  Making many system very shallow or even mound systems.  The filter on the outlet end of the tank is nice, but I would make sure you clean it more often than 2 year intervals.  Otherwise you may find your basement floor doesnt make a very nice drainfield.  I’d clean it (rinse with garden hose) at least every 6 months.



I live in Iowa. And it was a special circumstance permit.
The land my house is on is a flood plain. My yard has a high area and a low area. To do a leach field would have required that the Leach Field was in the lower land, closer to the lake area, and sometimes under water. A seepage pit was a better alternative for both me and the environment.

It was the camper model!
2 times a year to clean the filter? That seems often! I better get to it this spring. Now I just have to find that lid from the diagrams I drew up when we installed it :shut:


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## Highbeam

Effluent filters on the line out of your septic tank are a great idea. They are usually coarse plastic and easily cleaned with a garden hose. You want to keep them clean rather than wait for them to plug and even partially back up your tank. Becuase when you finally do withdraw the filter to rinse, the rapid flow of effluent into the disposal bad will be likely to wash the filtered solids right down the line. I would recommend a premanent access riser (the round irrigation valve box from HD) be placed over the filter so that you can easily clean it out. 

If you have an effluent filter then I would advise that you compromise a cleanout lid or other lid on the system to leak sewage in the event of a plugged filter. It will leak onto the ground surface and that is bad but it is not as bad as flooding your home. 

In the midwest especially they still have lagoons and cesspools. Basicaly a hole that you send all your sewage to. Some are covered and some are not. They should all be well above the seasonal high groundwater level to prevent direct contamination of the groundwater. It may not be very civilized but it isn't much different than doing your business in a hole you dug in the woods.


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## skeetska

If the sewer Gas is coming from the vent there is cap called a Studer vent which has a one way flapper to let air in and no gas out. Had to put one on a friends house, you couldn't set on the back deck. Yes the are legal to install by the IRC Codes


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## Highbeam

A one-way valve on the main stack vent is no good. They are fine on individual waste vents but your main stack's purpose is to allow the nasty gas to leave your system. 

As things decompose they produce methane and other nasty gasses. Ever seen an elk rotting in the sun all bloated up and ready to burst? That'll be your house if you don't allow the gasses to leave the vent stack.

I suspect that the studer you put on your friend's house just created enough pressure in the ventilation system to push the nasty gas out of the smaller plumbing vents.


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## verne

They make oderhogs or carbon fiter caps to put on your vent stack . they work good and the carbon lasts for a few years so I am told.
I made my own out of pvc couplings paintstrainer mesh and fish tank filter carbon. works for me and I had bad oder cause of down drafts. My house is up against a huge ridge


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## amkazen

This is interesting to me as I also have the same problem of an outside smell on occasion.  And, after reading this post, yes, it does occur to me now I only smell it on cold days, and not every cold day.  I also do not smell it during the summer months.  I did finally decide it had to be coming from my vent stack and thought I shoudl go make it taller but now this post confirms that.

And, my friend is going to install his septic system this Spring. It will be a seepage pit and it was suggested to him by the State of NM inspector that covers our area, as his lot is not large enough for a standard leach field.

Thanks for the info!  What a great post.


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## TheSmith

verne2 said:
			
		

> They make oderhogs or carbon fiter caps to put on your vent stack . they work good and the carbon lasts for a few years so I am told.
> I made my own out of pvc couplings paintstrainer mesh and fish tank filter carbon. works for me and I had bad oder cause of down drafts. My house is up against a huge ridge



thats a similar situation at my home, Im on a ridge and we get plenty of wind.actually I have not smelled it for almost a month now, but everyones replies have been very helpfull.I have also seen the filters but ohnestly I was more worried that something may have been wrong, I can deal with the wiff of poo now and then, as long as its outside!


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## Gooserider

One approach to the "finding the lid" problem that a couple of my friends have used is simply to build a gazebo over the tank, with a trap door in the floor...

Gooserider


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