# Shelter wood furnace upgrade/Improvement



## Lawson111 (Jan 5, 2018)

I have had my shelter furnace for 3 years now. Never really had any serious issues with it besides trying to keep the door handle adjusted properly but that’s not a huge issue.

What I would like to try though is instead of the air induction fan running off a thermostat in the house is there a way to hook that up to the blower thermostat? Or something similar maybe using a separate thermostat that monitors plenum heat. Really trying to get longer burns with this stove so I was trying the think of a way to set it up similar to a wood boiler where the induction fan will kick on when it calls for heat. But In this case when the fire box gets to a certain temp have it kick on to heat the fire up and turn the blower on. 

I know this is supposed to work off a house thermostat the same way but I have had no luck with it. I have to choke the fire down so much in order to get this to work resulting in bad creosote and even puff backs. 

Right now I don’t even use that induction fan I just monitor flue temps with a magnet thermometer on the stove pipe and adjust air intake with the bottom ash pan knob and plate on the side of the induction fan. Running it this way I burn a lot of wood and my house is 80 because the blower fan is constantly running because I try and keep the fire hot enough to not make a ton of creosote. It sucks having to clean the chimney every two weeks!

Any input or ideas would be great 
Maybe someone with a shelter furnace can help me get this thing setup to burn and run the way it was designed!

Thank you!! Sorry for the long read.


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## Medic21 (Jan 6, 2018)

What model? What wood?  

I just finished installing mine SF1000, and have had it running for 4 days.  We are in the longest single digit temps ever and I am very pleased with this after the highest temp since wed has been 9.  I have used zero propane since lighting it. I can't get more than 4 hours between loading with the thermostat set at 72.  At 68 it will go 5 hours.  The design in mine is to have the fire cool off between heatings and let the induction blower warm it up when it calls for heat.  I do not have any other air inlet other than the induction blower.  It stays clean since by the time the fire cools it is past the creosote stage.  If your puffing it sounds like a draft issue.


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## Lawson111 (Jan 6, 2018)

SF2631

Wood varies, all hard wood, cherry, beach, birtch, hard and soft maple. 

When you say it’s past the creosote stage do you mean your induction fan won’t kick on until it’s coal or near coals? If so does the induction fan really warm them up that much to bring the house temp up? 

I always assumed it should be set up where it kicks on and off through out the entire burn not just the end of it. I just can’t see it working like this without making a bunch of creosote or having th puff back issues I’m having because you would really have to shut the air intakes down a lot to get that low of a burn. Unless your wood is very seasoned which mine is cut in the spring stacked under a lean to until October then brought in my basement. 

The puffing I think I got figured out after it happened really bad today. I loaded the furnace with 6-7 pieces of wood and shut the door to soon before it was burning good. When I did this it starved it for air and resulted in a puff back. I never have an issue until I put a lot of wood on all at once. 

I am changing my inside stove pipe setup to try and help the draft but I need to wait until we get out of the single digits. So I can shut the stove down.


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## laynes69 (Jan 6, 2018)

Both furnaces here are completely different, the 1000 is EPA certified, where the other is not. Coals after 4 or 5 hours sounds normal. From there, the induction blower should cycle to keep the house warm for some time after to stretch out the burntimes.


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## Medic21 (Jan 6, 2018)

laynes69 said:


> Both furnaces here are completely different, the 1000 is EPA certified, where the other is not. Coals after 4 or 5 hours sounds normal. From there, the induction blower should cycle to keep the house warm for some time after to stretch out the burntimes.



True, I can open my firebox when the stack is around 250-300 and it is a very hot and clean burn inside the firebox.  When the inducer kicks in my stack goes to 450-500 depending on what wood I loaded.  The ash is hot and warms the house quick and the red and white oak is cooler but leaves hot charcoal chunks almost twice as long.

My old stove was the same, hot as hell inside or cold, no in between.  I added some homemade secondary air tubes and was able to extend the times a little and make it more even.


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## Lawson111 (Jan 6, 2018)

Looks like I’m just going to have to buy more firewood next year lol. Actually thinking about getting rid of the shelter and getting a pre EPA central boiler. You can still find some pretty decent ones floating around my area.


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## Medic21 (Jan 6, 2018)

Lawson111 said:


> Looks like I’m just going to have to buy more firewood next year lol. Actually thinking about getting rid of the shelter and getting a pre EPA central boiler. You can still find some pretty decent ones floating around my area.



Glad I don't have to buy it.  What are your circulatory blower temp settings.  I adjusted mine from 150 on to 170 on and off at 90 instead of 100.  Doesn't run as often but runs longer and seems to do a better job kicking on at a higher temp.  My old one didn't kick on till 200 then never shut off till time to reload.  When I added the secondary air tubes it ran hotter and cleaner with longer times.  It was really easy to build and install if you have a drill press and a metal hole saw. You might want to consider going to an EPA certified shelter, My heat is more efficient with the EPA stove but, not as constant as its more like my gas stove in cycling on and off.  I made the change to save wood, I offset the environmental savings every time I run my diesel lol. 

I'm ready for this sub zero crap to be done tomorrow, a lot less wheelbarrow trips from the leantoo to the house.


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## laynes69 (Jan 7, 2018)

Medic21 said:


> Glad I don't have to buy it.  What are your circulatory blower temp settings.  I adjusted mine from 150 on to 170 on and off at 90 instead of 100.  Doesn't run as often but runs longer and seems to do a better job kicking on at a higher temp.  My old one didn't kick on till 200 then never shut off till time to reload.  When I added the secondary air tubes it ran hotter and cleaner with longer times.  It was really easy to build and install if you have a drill press and a metal hole saw. You might want to consider going to an EPA certified shelter, My heat is more efficient with the EPA stove but, not as constant as its more like my gas stove in cycling on and off.  I made the change to save wood, I offset the environmental savings every time I run my diesel lol.
> 
> I'm ready for this sub zero crap to be done tomorrow, a lot less wheelbarrow trips from the leantoo to the house.



I would lower your on temp. The furnace will still put out heat, maybe not at a higher temp, however the blower will run longer during the coaling stage. If I had mine set up at that temp, I would not be able to heat our home overnight, our blower would rarely cycle at the tail end.


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## Lawson111 (Jan 7, 2018)

90 and 160 are my fan set points and If I do decide to keep it I don’t want to void the warranty just yet lol. Still got two more years


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## laynes69 (Jan 7, 2018)

I was talking about medic. Page 18 of his manual discusses adjustment of the limit control. His setting at 170 on would cause the furnace to run hotter, and possibly consume more wood in the process. 100 off and 150 on is what the manual recommends, I think 90 off and 140-150 on would work better. Lowering the on or off point on a limit is not going to void a warranty. However raising it to a point where it will overheat or damage the unit will.


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## Medic21 (Jan 7, 2018)

laynes69 said:


> I was talking about medic. Page 18 of his manual discusses adjustment of the limit control. His setting at 170 on would cause the furnace to run hotter, and possibly consume more wood in the process. 100 off and 150 on is what the manual recommends, I think 90 off and 140-150 on would work better. Lowering the on or off point on a limit is not going to void a warranty. However raising it to a point where it will overheat or damage the unit will.



That is what shelter reccomennded when it left short cycling.  Was told to not touch the high limit that cuts off the inducer.


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## laynes69 (Jan 7, 2018)

There's 3 settings on a limit control, off, on and limit. You don't adjust the limit, but lowering the on temp allows the blower to kick in more while in the coaling stage, prolonging the amount of heat extracted from the furnace. The higher the on temp, the longer the furnace has to wait to kick on the blower, therefore no heat is being pushed thru the ductwork.


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## Lawson111 (Jan 7, 2018)

In regards to the warranty I was talking about the burn tubes


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## laynes69 (Jan 7, 2018)

Lawson111 said:


> In regards to the warranty I was talking about the burn tubes


Does your furnace have burn tubes? I have 4 tubes and they glow cherry red everyday, every winter since '07 I think, and they are still good as new.


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## Lawson111 (Jan 7, 2018)

No burn tubes. Supposed to have a secondary burn chamber but I don’t think it does anything


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## Medic21 (Jan 7, 2018)

laynes69 said:


> There's 3 settings on a limit control, off, on and limit. You don't adjust the limit, but lowering the on temp allows the blower to kick in more while in the coaling stage, prolonging the amount of heat extracted from the furnace. The higher the on temp, the longer the furnace has to wait to kick on the blower, therefore no heat is being pushed thru the ductwork.



With this heat wave, 20 degrees out right now, I may try to adjust it some.  I was kicking on and only running for 45 sec and then off for a min.  They recommended adjusting that.  I wish it had a variable speed fan.


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## KvnSwan (Jan 17, 2018)

Have you gotten better burn times yet? I recently bought the shelter sf3100 and havent been overly impressed...im getting 4 hour burn times which is what i was getring with my antique hotblast from tractor supply 10 years ago. Got this one thinking it would be better but hasnt yet made me feel like it was a great decision. When the draft blower kicks on i burn through wood way to fast and if its off its way to cold. I cant find a happy medium at all. Adjusted the draft blower preset damper piece a few times but same results. Also if i pit more than 2 pieces of wood in the shelter the firebox gets cherry red and ill even get some glow at the upper front of the door. The old hotblast i could cram that baby full and not have an issue


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## laynes69 (Jan 17, 2018)

KvnSwan said:


> Have you gotten better burn times yet? I recently bought the shelter sf3100 and havent been overly impressed...im getting 4 hour burn times which is what i was getring with my antique hotblast from tractor supply 10 years ago. Got this one thinking it would be better but hasnt yet made me feel like it was a great decision. When the draft blower kicks on i burn through wood way to fast and if its off its way to cold. I cant find a happy medium at all. Adjusted the draft blower preset damper piece a few times but same results. Also if i pit more than 2 pieces of wood in the shelter the firebox gets cherry red and ill even get some glow at the upper front of the door. The old hotblast i could cram that baby full and not have an issue



Ouch! Have you measured your draft? Describe your setup, chimney height, size, diameter? Welcome to hearth!


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## KvnSwan (Jan 17, 2018)

Thanks! Im new to all this so im glad i finally found a forum. Ive had trouble finding any sort of feedback or reviews for this shelter. It comes out at 6" from the furnace then i have it t'd up into 8" pipe 15 foot single wall until the tip then i have the double. The temp varries depending on if the draft blower is running. It usually stays steady at 250 degrees. Never has passed 350. If i turn the draft blower off itll drop to 180-200 degrees since its not getting the air from the blower. I would like to get through a night without waking up at 2am freezing my nuts off. Wall thermostat controls the draft blower but has a manual on off also and a 3 speed blower for the warm air. So mostly a) ot would be great to get an extra 2 hours maybe out of it. Get me 6 hours of sleep. And b) the firbox getting so hot with the draft blower on freaks me out. Sometimes if i open the door with 2 or 3 pieces in it the heat shield will be cherry red and looks like ots about to melt in front of my eyes


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## KvnSwan (Jan 17, 2018)

Also the draft blower cover ive been running back at the recomended preset setting which is a 3/8 gap.


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## brenndatomu (Jan 17, 2018)

Sounds like draft is too high...I'd cut the primary air back a bit more...adjust the barometric damper down...or install one if there is none.
Are those temps you listed internal or external pipe temps? If external then that is pretty hot...hotter than need be for sure


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## 3fordasho (Jan 18, 2018)

I don't own a Shelter furnace but my goal would be to get adequate heat with out the draft blower running. Reserve it for short runs to start a fire or during a reload.  two splits is not going to get adequate secondary burn or heat with out the draft blower running.  Check the chimney draft, check your wood moisture content.  Any extended runs of the draft blower will result in very short burn times and forge like temps in the firebox. - ie glowing metal parts.  The only way two splits works in my Tundra is if there is already a deep coal bed and already hot furnace, then it can work but I would be feeding it every couple hours.  The SF3100 has a large 5.7 cuft firebox, you should be getting 8hr+ burns from it.

Try this, go to menards or tractor supply and get a couple bundles of the Redstone or ECO compressed wood bricks.  Start a fire in the furnace with 8-10 small splits (2" on a side) and burn it down to a good coal bed. Now load the furnace with 6-8 of the bricks on the hot coals, run the blower for up to 10 minutes to get the bricks charred good, then shut it off. You may have to play with the air inlet but after 15 minutes or so with the blower off you want to quickly crack open the door and hopefully you will see floating flames up near the top of the firebox.  Of course this wont last with the door open so you need to take a quick peek.  Your goal is to maintain this floating flames (secondary burn) with minimum air coming in and certainly with the draft blower off.  If you don't see any flames, you need a bit more air or you didn't char the bricks long enough.  The Bricks take the moisture content question out of the equation.

Another use for the draft blower is at the end of the burn cycle when you have nothing left but a bunch of coals - the blower can be run for a bit to burn down the coal bed and get usable heat from them.  It also can be used for quick spurts when you need to bump house temps quicker, but I would time limit this or more glowing metal parts (overfire).

These EPA fireboxes need to be loaded pretty full to work properly, my 3.8 cuft tundra takes 5-6 splits- 6" on a side for a full load.  I run mine three load cycles a day,  full load at 5:30am, 3:30 pm and 10pm. I always have adequate coals for a easy restart but not too many that they get in the way of new wood.


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## Lawson111 (Jan 18, 2018)

Try this, go to menards or tractor supply and get a couple bundles of the Redstone or ECO compressed wood bricks.  Start a fire in the furnace with 8-10 small splits (2" on a side) and burn it down to a good coal bed. Now load the furnace with 6-8 of the bricks on the hot coals, run the blower for up to 10 minutes to get the bricks charred good, then shut it off. You may have to play with the air inlet but after 15 minutes or so with the blower off you want to quickly crack open the door and hopefully you will see floating flames up near the top of the firebox.  Of course this wont last with the door open so you need to take a quick peek.  Your goal is to maintain this floating flames (secondary burn) with minimum air coming in and certainly with the draft blower off.  If you don't see any flames, you need a bit more air or you didn't char the bricks long enough.  The Bricks take the moisture content question out of the equation.[/QUOTE]

This is a really good idea. I am going to try this the next time I have to shut my stove down to clean it. Right now I think I have it running good but there is always room for improvement.

As for burn times it all depends on how much wood I put in and what kind of wood. I can get 4-5 hours out of 4-5 pieces of wood about 6-8" in diameter with cherry and birch and I have been mixing in some beach to help burn longer. I have some beach that I only split in half or left whole and it will burn a lot longer if I load this stove with mostly this or all beach, but it doesn't burn as hot, life 100f cooler. I measure my flue temps with a magnet thermometer its about 16in above the outlet of the stove on black single wall pipe. With the mixed wood I get it to idle around 250-350f. With just beach its around 200-275f.

How much is the dial open on your ash door? I know if mine is open to much my burn temps are way to hot. But I've never seen my stove glow red. So id say your way to hot. I never use my draft blower maybe once and a while to get the fire going faster when I first light it or if there is minimal coals when I re load the stove. I actually just took a wire and jumped the two terminals so I can switch it on and off with the switch and not have it hooked up to a thermostat. I found a good gap on the slide cover of the draft blower and I leave that alone and never change it unless temps outside are -20 and the stove is getting a lot better draft. I do control my burn temps with the bottom ash pan dial I just count how many turns its out and adjust it in or out using the lines on the dial for a reference. For instance when I went to bed last night I set it at 1.25 turns out and it burns around 250-275 to get me through the night and when I loaded the stove up this morning before I left for work I set it at 1.5. Wifey likes the house warm and she's home all day so she can keep the fire going.

Maybe try a manual damper if your flue temps are to high, I know there not recommended but my father had to use one with his old hot blast stove because his draft was to high. I personally install one for my owe comfort, if there is ever a chimney fire I have a way to help stop it or stop it with the damper.

Hope this helps its literally taken my 3 years of adjusting, turning dials, watching flue temps for hours.... to get this stove to burn how I want it haha.


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## maple1 (Jan 18, 2018)

KvnSwan said:


> Thanks! Im new to all this so im glad i finally found a forum. Ive had trouble finding any sort of feedback or reviews for this shelter. It comes out at 6" from the furnace then i have it t'd up into 8" pipe 15 foot single wall until the tip then i have the double. The temp varries depending on if the draft blower is running. It usually stays steady at 250 degrees. Never has passed 350. If i turn the draft blower off itll drop to 180-200 degrees since its not getting the air from the blower. I would like to get through a night without waking up at 2am freezing my nuts off. Wall thermostat controls the draft blower but has a manual on off also and a 3 speed blower for the warm air. So mostly a) ot would be great to get an extra 2 hours maybe out of it. Get me 6 hours of sleep. And b) the firbox getting so hot with the draft blower on freaks me out. Sometimes if i open the door with 2 or 3 pieces in it the heat shield will be cherry red and looks like ots about to melt in front of my eyes



But what is the total height of your chimney? Say from your furnace outlet, all the way to the very top?

The primary first thing on pretty well any wood burner, is proper draft. And most often overlooked or not fully considered.

EDIT: I'd also be measuring flue temps. With a probe thermometer.


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## 3fordasho (Jan 18, 2018)

maple1 said:


> But what is the total height of your chimney? Say from your furnace outlet, all the way to the very top?
> 
> The primary first thing on pretty well any wood burner, is proper draft. And most often overlooked or not fully considered.
> 
> EDIT: I'd also be measuring flue temps. With a probe thermometer.




This is the one I like, very accurate at least compared to the magnetic stick on crap:

https://www.teltru.com/p-272-big-gr...ter-lt225r-5-inch-stem-2001000-degrees-f.aspx

Just don't peg it at 1000F, I did that once and then it didn't read right after that.


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## Medic21 (Jan 18, 2018)

KvnSwan said:


> Have you gotten better burn times yet? I recently bought the shelter sf3100 and havent been overly impressed...im getting 4 hour burn times which is what i was getring with my antique hotblast from tractor supply 10 years ago. Got this one thinking it would be better but hasnt yet made me feel like it was a great decision. When the draft blower kicks on i burn through wood way to fast and if its off its way to cold. I cant find a happy medium at all. Adjusted the draft blower preset damper piece a few times but same results. Also if i pit more than 2 pieces of wood in the shelter the firebox gets cherry red and ill even get some glow at the upper front of the door. The old hotblast i could cram that baby full and not have an issue



Here is what I have found out with the SF1000 so far. 

Do not load it with a good bed of coals when the stat is calling for heat with the inducer running nonstop.  You will get the top of the door glowing like your talking about and burn through your wood in no time.  Get the load charred with the door cracked and I watch the flue temps around 500 internal.  Shut the blower off and let it heat up the house.  Turn the blower back on when the temp Is raised to the stat setting.  With ash, elm, and oak it holds a flue temp around 300 after that and the inducer does not come on for a couple hours.   I can get 4-5 hours when it's below 10 degrees out and I have gotten 12 hours at 35 degrees out over night.

At the suggestion of another member I lowered the circulation fan on temp to 140 and it produces heat a good hour longer now.  I have a bunch of larger splits, 8"-10" that fit three across with two layers in the fire box once it's going.

I am going to check the flue this weekend, calling for 50+ on Saturday.  If I see a large creosote issue I'll let you know.  Hope this helps.  I'm very satisfied with the furnace even though it has some quirks I don't like.


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## Lawson111 (Jan 19, 2018)

3fordasho said:


> This is the one I like, very accurate at least compared to the magnetic stick on crap:
> 
> https://www.teltru.com/p-272-big-gr...ter-lt225r-5-inch-stem-2001000-degrees-f.aspx
> 
> Just don't peg it at 1000F, I did that once and then it didn't read right after that.




What’s wrong with the magnetic ones? Are they low or high on temp? And with the one you suggested do you just drill a small hole in the pipe and place this in there?


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## 3fordasho (Jan 19, 2018)

Lawson111 said:


> What’s wrong with the magnetic ones? Are they low or high on temp? And with the one you suggested do you just drill a small hole in the pipe and place this in there?



I've had several of the magnetic ones on the same heated surface right next to each other and they can be 100-150F off from each other. On the surface of your connector pipe they might be ok on a single wall pipe, but useless on the double wall stuff (only thing I use). They are slow to respond to temperature changes, I've had flue temps on a Woodstock fireview go from 300f to 1000f in a matter of minutes on a reload or cold start when the bypass was open.

For the tel-tru probe thermometer I've simply drilled through both walls of the double wall connector pipe, just slightly larger than the diameter of the probe, then used a small dab of high temp silicon to seal it up and it's enough to hold it in place. The silicon is the bronze colored automotive type good for 700F+.

The tel-tru's have tracked well with the thermocouple / digital controller I've installed for more sophisticated control of flue temps.

I mentioned that I pegged one at 1000F and it was off after that, I forgot to say it was fixable, there is a calibration nut on the back, loosen it, put the probe in boiling water, set dial to 212F, fixed.


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## maple1 (Jan 19, 2018)

Lawson111 said:


> What’s wrong with the magnetic ones? Are they low or high on temp? And with the one you suggested do you just drill a small hole in the pipe and place this in there?



Magnetic pipe temp guages are pretty well garbage IMO. They can be inaccurate from one to the next as last post says, and they greatly underestimate internal pipe temps. I have one, right beside a probe guage. The magnetic reads 100c less than the probe when burning. That might lead to someone trying to push up their pipe temp going by one of those, when it's already hot enough inside. So IMO they can also be dangerous, especially if combined with someone new at wood burning or with not-ideal practices or especially unseasoned wood.


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## Lawson111 (Jan 19, 2018)

3fordasho said:


> I've had several of the magnetic ones on the same heated surface right next to each other and they can be 100-150F off from each other. On the surface of your connector pipe they might be ok on a single wall pipe, but useless on the double wall stuff (only thing I use). They are slow to respond to temperature changes, I've had flue temps on a Woodstock fireview go from 300f to 1000f in a matter of minutes on a reload or cold start when the bypass was open.
> 
> For the tel-tru probe thermometer I've simply drilled through both walls of the double wall connector pipe, just slightly larger than the diameter of the probe, then used a small dab of high temp silicon to seal it up and it's enough to hold it in place. The silicon is the bronze colored automotive type good for 700F+.
> 
> ...



My magnetic one is on single wall pipe. I use single wall pipe until it connects to my thimble. I did this because the heat that comes off the pipe is enough to keep the basement warm which keeps my floors warm. 

I just put it in boiler water and it reads 25-50f hotter than boiling water. I can live with that...


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## Lawson111 (Jan 19, 2018)

maple1 said:


> Magnetic pipe temp guages are pretty well garbage IMO. They can be inaccurate from one to the next as last post says, and they greatly underestimate internal pipe temps. I have one, right beside a probe guage. The magnetic reads 100c less than the probe when burning. That might lead to someone trying to push up their pipe temp going by one of those, when it's already hot enough inside. So IMO they can also be dangerous, especially if combined with someone new at wood burning or with not-ideal practices or especially unseasoned wood.




Hmmm maybe I’ll buy the one @3fordasho suggested and give it a shot. It will be ok to install on single wall pipe right?


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## maple1 (Jan 19, 2018)

Should be Ok yes.

If you do get it, post up some comparison numbers. We can add that to the 'hmm that's interesting' pile.


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## 3fordasho (Jan 19, 2018)

Lawson111 said:


> Hmmm maybe I’ll buy the one @3fordasho suggested and give it a shot. It will be ok to install on single wall pipe right?


 
Yes it will work fine. I'd be less likely to use the high temp silicon to secure it on single wall, you might exceed the high temp rating.  In my case the silicon is on the outer layer of the double wall that does not get near as hot.

Couple options to try, drill hole same size as probe diameter and hopefully a slight interference fit will be enough to secure,  I've also taken a short length of brass threaded rod, maybe 3/4" long, drilled a hole thru for the probe, then tapped a hole in the pipe to match the treaded rod thread size.


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## Lawson111 (Jan 19, 2018)

3fordasho said:


> Yes it will work fine. I'd be less likely to use the high temp silicon to secure it on single wall, you might exceed the high temp rating.  In my case the silicon is on the outer layer of the double wall that does not get near as hot.
> 
> Couple options to try, drill hole same size as probe diameter and hopefully a slight interference fit will be enough to secure,  I've also taken a short length of brass threaded rod, maybe 3/4" long, drilled a hole thru for the probe, then tapped a hole in the pipe to match the treaded rod thread size.



I’m a little confused on the threaded rod idea... could you explain more?


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## 3fordasho (Jan 19, 2018)

Lawson111 said:


> I’m a little confused on the threaded rod idea... could you explain more?








Ok, I've got to remember not everyone has access to a metal lathe 

There are brass hose fittings that will work, I've something like this :  https://www.mcmaster.com/#5346k11/=1b73hxf

and simply drilled out the center hole to match the diameter of the probe on the tel-tru.   you'll need to tap your pipe for 1/8 pipe thread which is pretty common.


There is also a clip that comes with the tel-tru that is used to secure it to the big green egg grill.
This could also be used but that clip would reside inside the pipe, so access is an issue and it could also collect fly ash or other build up.


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## tomtom85 (Feb 14, 2018)

So is the sf1000 worth the money?  thinking of putting one in this summer


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## Medic21 (Feb 14, 2018)

tomtom85 said:


> So is the sf1000 worth the money?  thinking of putting one in this summer



So far, yes.  Really hard to give an answer on that.  We have had a colder than normal winter so with it being sized for the house on a normal winter it doesn't keep up like I'd like it to on the single digit nights and days.  That said in the 20s daytime andnim getting 9-10 hour burns while I'm at work.  I can go 6-8 hours at night in the teens.   Our normal for this time of the year is 34 high and low 20s low.

That said it is clean and efficient.  I have still used 30%-40% less wood this year. I also have used only about 50gal of propane since Jan.  My only comparison though would be electric since I put the propane and central air in this last summer.  My electric bills dropped from $600+ to $150.  I'll post a complete pros and cons review this spring when I'm done burning.

Edited to change 100gal to 50gal.  I had a 1000 tank forever now 500.


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## Debold (Dec 7, 2018)

Lawson111 said:


> I have had my shelter furnace for 3 years now. Never really had any serious issues with it besides trying to keep the door handle adjusted properly but that’s not a huge issue.
> 
> What I would like to try though is instead of the air induction fan running off a thermostat in the house is there a way to hook that up to the blower thermostat? Or something similar maybe using a separate thermostat that monitors plenum heat. Really trying to get longer burns with this stove so I was trying the think of a way to set it up similar to a wood boiler where the induction fan will kick on when it calls for heat. But In this case when the fire box gets to a certain temp have it kick on to heat the fire up and turn the blower on.
> 
> ...


This is to everyone wishing for longer burns. I have owned the larger shelter outdoor unit for 5 years. Stop using the induction fan. Leave the thermostat switch off. Close the cover on the fan. I typically only use the screw style air intake until temps get to single digits or below. Then i open the slide on the inducer fan 1/8th inch at a time. I get 8 to 12 hours burn time if loaded correctly. My log cuts are around 18 inches. I stack neatly in the back. Then cross stack the front with any shorter pieces. Hope this helps someone.


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## Medic21 (Dec 7, 2018)

Debold said:


> This is to everyone wishing for longer burns. I have owned the larger shelter outdoor unit for 5 years. Stop using the induction fan. Leave the thermostat switch off. Close the cover on the fan. I typically only use the screw style air intake until temps get to single digits or below. Then i open the slide on the inducer fan 1/8th inch at a time. I get 8 to 12 hours burn time if loaded correctly. My log cuts are around 18 inches. I stack neatly in the back. Then cross stack the front with any shorter pieces. Hope this helps someone.



In the SF1000 and the FC1000 this will not work at all.  It needs much more airflow than this will allow. That is the whole problem with it.


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## Debold (Jan 20, 2019)

Medic21 said:


> In the SF1000 and the FC1000 this will not work at all.  It needs much more airflow than this will allow. That is the whole problem with it.


So medic, ive looked at the design on these smaller indoor units. My subtle suggestion is to install a damper and run it 3/4 closed. I recently did this on mine and im thoroughly impressed. After 10 to 12 hours, i wake up to 3 unburnt logs and plenty of heat. This shouldnt have an affect on the inducer motor system as it can force the smoke through the damper. The result should be a satisfies thermostat and much longer blower runs with hotter air temps. A damper is 8 dollars and easy install. Well worth the experiment.


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## Mrpelletburner (Feb 19, 2019)

Debold said:


> My subtle suggestion is to install a damper and run it 3/4 closed.



Does this help keep the heat in the firebox? Hotter firebox = longer secondary burn?


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## Debold (Feb 19, 2019)

Mrpelletburner said:


> Does this help keep the heat in the firebox? Hotter firebox = longer secondary burn?



I am playing with a damper for the first time on my outdoor unit. Thus far, i must wait for the fire to flare up nicely before closing the damper. I only close ot halfway. Im getting hotter air for an average of 12 hours. Typically in the morning i still have 2 logs that are barely burnt. If i close the damper much further, it kills the fire. Im very happy i tried this. Heres the trick. I have tripple wall stainless pipe on the stove. To install a damper you have to buy a 6" and install it on the rod from a 8". It takes a little engineering but it can be done.


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## Medic21 (Feb 19, 2019)

Debold said:


> So medic, ive looked at the design on these smaller indoor units. My subtle suggestion is to install a damper and run it 3/4 closed. I recently did this on mine and im thoroughly impressed. After 10 to 12 hours, i wake up to 3 unburnt logs and plenty of heat. This shouldnt have an affect on the inducer motor system as it can force the smoke through the damper. The result should be a satisfies thermostat and much longer blower runs with hotter air temps. A damper is 8 dollars and easy install. Well worth the experiment.



It has good burn times in normal weather.  The problem is it is choked down to an opening of 3/8”X2” along with two 1/2” to draw intake air.  Roughly a 2square inch opening is all it has to draw air from at an idle.  With the inducer running it supplies considerably more air.  The 6inch outlet does not effect draft so a damper is a mute point, especially with the baffle.


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## Mrpelletburner (Feb 19, 2019)

Medic21 said:


> It has good burn times in normal weather.  The problem is it is choked down to an opening of 3/8”X2” along with two 1/2” to draw intake air.  Roughly a 2square inch opening is all it has to draw air from at an idle.  With the inducer running it supplies considerably more air.  The 6inch outlet does not effect draft so a damper is a mute point, especially with the baffle.



Basically because of the “fixed intake air” the draft doesn’t matter?


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## Medic21 (Feb 19, 2019)

Mrpelletburner said:


> Basically because of the “fixed intake air” the draft doesn’t matter?



Draft matters absolutely.  28 square inches outlet will only flow what comes in.  If draft is good closing off the flue has no different effect than closing down the intake.


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## Mrpelletburner (Feb 21, 2019)

Medic21 said:


> Draft matters absolutely.  28 square inches outlet will only flow what comes in.  If draft is good closing off the flue has no different effect than closing down the intake.



What would you consider a good draft? What would be to much of a draft?

For example without a bd installed, I am seeking  the draft hit -0.2” wc.


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## Medic21 (Feb 21, 2019)

Mrpelletburner said:


> What would you consider a good draft? What would be to much of a draft?
> 
> For example without a bd installed, I am seeking  the draft hit -0.2” wc.



If it burns it has good draft.  If it doesn’t burn it doesn’t have good draft.  I don’t live by instruments at all. 

I can open the door on my furnace and fire will immediately rage away.  That means I have adequate draft.  Just like a structure fire and closing your bed room door, limit or interrupt that flowpath of a fire , the draft, and fire doesn’t burn.


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## maple1 (Feb 21, 2019)

Medic21 said:


> If it burns it has good draft.  If it doesn’t burn it doesn’t have good draft.  I don’t live by instruments at all.
> 
> I can open the door on my furnace and fire will immediately rage away.  That means I have adequate draft.  Just like a structure fire and closing your bed room door, limit or interrupt that flowpath of a fire , the draft, and fire doesn’t burn.



Too much draft isn't a good thing though.


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## Mrpelletburner (Feb 21, 2019)

Medic21 said:


> If it burns it has good draft.  If it doesn’t burn it doesn’t have good draft.  I don’t live by instruments at all.
> 
> I can open the door on my furnace and fire will immediately rage away.  That means I have adequate draft.  Just like a structure fire and closing your bed room door, limit or interrupt that flowpath of a fire , the draft, and fire doesn’t burn.



Everything I have read states...

To much draft and you risk damaging the unit.

To much draft and you will go through fuel faster.

I am guessing what you are suggesting is because the primary air is “fixed” the draft doesn’t matter as you can only pull X amount of air through the opening? This where these newer models differ from an adjustable primary air adjustable damper?


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## brenndatomu (Feb 21, 2019)

Medic21 said:


> If it burns it has good draft.  If it doesn’t burn it doesn’t have good draft.  I don’t live by instruments at all.
> 
> I can open the door on my furnace and fire will immediately rage away.  That means I have adequate draft.  Just like a structure fire and closing your bed room door, limit or interrupt that flowpath of a fire , the draft, and fire doesn’t burn.


Yeah, that isn't right at all. You never cut off incoming air 100%...or your fire would go out. So if you are running high draft, its pulling more air into the fire than what is supposed to be (at any given setting) and if the furnace has a fixed opening like the new FC do, you are gonna overfire in a heartbeat with -0.2" draft!
Even Kuuma, with their precision computerized air control, still stresses the need to control chimney draft to -0.04 to -0.06" WC...they even _come with_ a Fields baro.


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## Medic21 (Feb 21, 2019)

maple1 said:


> Too much draft isn't a good thing though.



I agree.  And a damper wether manual or auto fixes that.  My problem is I can’t get enough air with a fixed inlet.  No room to adjust.


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