# Quadra Fire Mt. Vernon AE Insert Owners



## Gaddy (Oct 26, 2013)

Hi- is there anyway to bypass the temp. setting so the insert simply runs at a constant burn? Don't these pellet stoves like to burn all day and not shut down and fire back up during the course of the day. Nevermind the wear and tear of starting up several times a day.


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## mralias (Oct 26, 2013)

They are made to fire up several times a day based on the call for heat in the house. Or you could just turn the thermostat up to the highest setting.


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## john193 (Oct 26, 2013)

You could burn on manual; however, the stove will still shutdown when/if it reaches the desired temp.  So for example, you could set the stove on manual - medium with a target temp of 80.  Likely the stove will never reach 80 (on the colder days) and you will have a constant medium heat output, but, the stove will still shutdown every few hours to perform an auto clean.  No way to bypass the auto clean.


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## Gaddy (Oct 26, 2013)

Thx for the replies- very helpful. What I did today was manual set at 78 on low flame and medium/low heat. Over the last 3 hours I'm maintaining about 70 degrees. I prefer this method for most days.


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## VA Bugler (Oct 27, 2013)

I have mine set to manual mode, temp at 78 with heat output settings generally on low to medium depending on outside temps. I don't like the auto mode and agree the stove has a mind of it's own.


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## Peter Martin (Oct 27, 2013)

I've had my Mt. Vernon AE for 3 years now.  I love it, but admit to being mystified as to how to optimize the settings.  I want to minimize the number of times it goes into autoclean mode every day.  I have a Castille in the family room, and that thing burns all day without stopping, only accumulating a small amount of ash in the firepot by the end of the day.  Why can't my Mt. Vernon do the same thing?  What about the flame height setting.  I've been experimenting with that one, but not sure what it does.


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## stoveguy13 (Oct 27, 2013)

Peter Martin said:


> I want to minimize the number of times it goes into autoclean mode every day


 Auto clean is determined by what fuel setting it is on soft wood has the longest time then hard wood then utility i am not sure i have this right but i think softwood is 6hrs
hardwood is 3hrs utility is 1.5 hrs


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## Peter Martin (Oct 27, 2013)

OK, thanks.  So, the flame height setting controls how fast the convection fan runs or the feed rate?  

One more question:  when I first got the stove, it look a long time for the glass to get dirty.  Now it gets dirty within the first day after a clean.  I've been good about frequently cleaning the stove, including the baffle.  Is there anything else I'm missing that I can do to avoid the dirty glass?  It's frustrating because I have a Castille in the other room and that runs for a week (on the same pellets) without the glass being dirty at all.  I apply the same cleaning regime to both stoves.  Any ideas?


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## john193 (Oct 27, 2013)

From the horses mouth...

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...ble-trouble-shoot-manual.105258/#post-1554362 and download the manual and refer to page 7 

here is the A/C cycle when burning on HIGH

Corn - 14 min (max ignitor time) / 2.4 hr (A/C cycle)
Utility pellet - 4 min / 1.2 hr
Softwood - 4 min / 3.2 hr
Sunflower - 4 min / 2.4 hr
Wheat - 10 min / 1.8 hr
Hardwood - 4 min / 2.1 hr

The flame height controls the feed rate.  To set it, run the stove on high for about 15 min.  The top of the flame should be "licking" the baffle (adjust feed rate up or down until it does).  Keep in mind you need to wait about 10-15 min each time you make an adjustment to see the effect.  I run mine on +1 (i like fire).


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## Gaddy (Nov 6, 2013)

john193 said:


> From the horses mouth...
> 
> https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...ble-trouble-shoot-manual.105258/#post-1554362 and download the manual and refer to page 7
> 
> ...



Ok- what about heat output setting? If I have a high setting for heat output and a low flame how does that work? Thx.


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## john193 (Nov 6, 2013)

Yes that will work fine. It is whatever setting that is set based on the procedure as described in the manual.


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## buyaninsert (Dec 14, 2013)

john193 said:


> Yes that will work fine. It is whatever setting that is set based on the procedure as described in the manual.


i heard quadra MV makes a lot of howling noises. What is your experience? how quiet is the insert?


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## Harvey Schneider (Dec 15, 2013)

buyaninsert said:


> i heard quadra MV makes a lot of howling noises. What is your experience? how quiet is the insert?


Happens once in a while when running at full throttle. Sometimes happens if the ash pan isn't closed securely
It doesn't bother me all that much


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## Harvey Schneider (Dec 15, 2013)

Gaddy said:


> Ok- what about heat output setting? If I have a high setting for heat output and a low flame how does that work? Thx.


I am not absolutely sure, but I think "heat output " applies to manual mode and "flame height " applies to automatic mode. They are both basically feed rate controls.


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## john193 (Dec 15, 2013)

buyaninsert said:


> i heard quadra MV makes a lot of howling noises. What is your experience? how quiet is the insert?


The Mt Vernon AE is probably one of the quietest stoves out there; however, every once in a while I do get this resonance noise.  It is short in duration and does seem to correspond to when the stove is chugging along at a higher rate.

As Harvey indicated, those experiencing "a lot of noise" are likely experiencing it because of a loose ash pan. Then it sounds like a freight train.


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## LMPS (Dec 15, 2013)

The flame height controls how much fuel the stove is getting.  High Flame height=more pellets= more heat.   I personally do not worry about the actual flame height if I need more heat I turn up the flame height, if its in single digits I will need to run the stove on +5.

The heat output also controls how much fuel the stove is consuming and how often it will shut down.  So a stove set in utlity, with a +5 feed rate, high heat output will shut down to auto clean the most and consume more fuel.  In contrast a stove set to softwood, on a -5 flame height, low heat output would run the longest and consume the less fuel.

The problem is finding that balance between desired heat in the house, fuel consumption and run time between auto cleaning.  This is a balancing act that drives me nuts.  Oh Santa how I wish for Christmas that Quad would give me a way to by-pass the auto clean!!

As far as running on manual or automatic I do both.  But if I am running on automatic when its cold out I will set the temperature the stove is calling for higher so the stove stays at a higher heat output longer (basically making the automatic act like its in manual mode).  I typically do this if I am not going to be home, overnight or when I do not feel like paying attention.  If I run in manual its typically during the day and when its cold out (single digits) as I need the higher heat output for longer and want to control that.

With the howling noise, I have gotten this in the past and always thought that it was caused by the stove getting too much air vs pellets.  When it does it try turning up your flame height to get the stove more fuel and see if goes away.


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## buyaninsert (Dec 15, 2013)

Thank you everybody for enlightening me about the howling noise. As for the autoclean cycle, does this make the comparable Harman52i a better option, or are there cons about it that makes it less desirable than the Quad?


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## VA Bugler (Dec 15, 2013)

I think i have identified the key contributor to the howling noise. It tends to rear it's ugly head when the exhaust ports below the heat exchanger begin to fill up with ash.   The recommended tool kit that allows you to get in deep and clean works great.


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## Harvey Schneider (Dec 15, 2013)

buyaninsert said:


> Thank you everybody for enlightening me about the howling noise. As for the autoclean cycle, does this make the comparable Harman52i a better option, or are there cons about it that makes it less desirable than the Quad?


I have no problem with the autoclean. Every few hours it cleans the fire pot for you. With the stove hot from running, I don't notice the drop in room temperature.
In cold weather I prefer to run it in manual mode at anywhere between +3 and +5 which gets the stove internals good and hot. The room blower continues to deliver warm air to the room through most of the clean cycle. 
There is nothing wrong with the idea of an autoclean, the people here just like to tinker and play with controls and the MVAE is as automatic as a pellet stove has gotten.


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## sante fe (Dec 15, 2013)

buyaninsert said:


> Thank you everybody for enlightening me about the howling noise. As for the autoclean cycle, does this make the comparable Harman52i a better option, or are there cons about it that makes it less desirable than the Quad?


I bought the 52i in sept going from a quad to a Harman. The 52i has been a great stove, Im very happy with it. When I was looking for a new insert(Harman,MV, M55) I went and watch them run looked at the build quality and ease of cleaning and did a lot of research. They are all good stoves but I'm glad I went Harman


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## buyaninsert (Dec 15, 2013)

sante fe said:


> I bought the 52i in sept going from a quad to a Harman. The 52i has been a great stove, Im very happy with it. When I was looking for a new insert(Harman,MV, M55) I went and watch them run looked at the build quality and ease of cleaning and did a lot of research. They are all good stoves but I'm glad I went Harman[/quote
> What about the noise factor? Aren't the Harman blowers loud while the Quad quiet?


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## buyaninsert (Dec 15, 2013)

What about the noise factor? Aren't the Harman blowers loud while the Quad are quiet?


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## LMPS (Dec 15, 2013)

Harvey Schneider said:


> I have no problem with the autoclean. Every few hours it cleans the fire pot for you. With the stove hot from running, I don't notice the drop in room temperature.
> In cold weather I prefer to run it in manual mode at anywhere between +3 and +5 which gets the stove internals good and hot. The room blower continues to deliver warm air to the room through most of the clean cycle.
> There is nothing wrong with the idea of an autoclean, the people here just like to tinker and play with controls and the MVAE is as automatic as a pellet stove has gotten.



This may be the case you in your house.  In mine I lose about 2 degrees every time it auto cleans.  More when  its cold.  Then the stove fights to get back up to temp.  So in real cold I end up having to turn the flame height up to +5 which of course means more fuel consumption.


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## Harvey Schneider (Dec 15, 2013)

LMPS said:


> This may be the case you in your house.  In mine I lose about 2 degrees every time it auto cleans.  More when  its cold.  Then the stove fights to get back up to temp.  So in real cold I end up having to turn the flame height up to +5 which of course means more fuel consumption.


But it comes out the same amount of pellets burned. You are replenishing lost energy from the house. Your stove needs to burn enough pellets to generate that amount of energy. The stove's efficiency doesn't vary that much so upping the burn rate to allow fast recovery doesn't change the cost of running the stove.


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## Harvey Schneider (Dec 15, 2013)

LMPS said:


> 2 degrees every time it auto cleans


Many stove owners are running their thermostats with bigger dead-bands than that. What differential are you running on your thermostat?
I run mine with a tight dead-band of 1 degree. The down side of that is that the number of start cycles increases as differential is made smaller. My igniter is now about two years old so I am comfortable with that trade-off. 
Running in manual mode should reduce the number of cycles because of the tendency to overshoot the set-point. That overshoot also helps with the drop at auto-clean because more heat has been stored in the stove's body. I use that mode only in the coldest weather (like now) because I believe auto mode to be a little more efficient
As you say, everybody's situation is different


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## LMPS (Dec 15, 2013)

Harvey Schneider said:


> Many stove owners are running their thermostats with bigger dead-bands than that. What differential are you running on your thermostat?
> I run mine with a tight dead-band of 1 degree. The down side of that is that the number of start cycles increases as differential is made smaller. My igniter is now about two years old so I am comfortable with that trade-off.
> Running in manual mode should reduce the number of cycles because of the tendency to overshoot the set-point. That overshoot also helps with the drop at auto-clean because more heat has been stored in the stove's body. I use that mode only in the coldest weather (like now) because I believe auto mode to be a little more efficient
> As you say, everybody's situation is different



I run it with the set point temp around 78 so that I never reaches it, thus the room differential does not really matter unless it is very warm out.  But I am running it on +2 I believe.  I never overshoot the set-point when it is cold out.  
I agree when its cold out running it in manual makes sense as it allows you to burn on the higher heat output longer and get closer to the temp you want before cutting it back so you do not reach that temp.


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## LMPS (Dec 15, 2013)

Harvey Schneider said:


> But it comes out the same amount of pellets burned. You are replenishing lost energy from the house. Your stove needs to burn enough pellets to generate that amount of energy. The stove's efficiency doesn't vary that much so upping the burn rate to allow fast recovery doesn't change the cost of running the stove.



True.  the only issue is the stoves ability to recover.  If it is cold enough out the stove never recovers the loss temp and then I am in a cycle.  So for example temp in the house is a 72, stove auto cleans, temp falls back to 70.  The stove is running on high, but it never gets back to 72 before the next auto clean and so it drops to 68 after the next auto clean......   Now I have been able to offset some of this by turning up the flame height to +4 or +5 when its cold but this does increase the pellet consumption.  Yes, I could turn down the heat output to save pellets but this means a lower temp in the house.  This is the balancing act with this stove.  Heat vs Pellet consumption caused by in my opinion the auto clean.   Maybe other stoves are like this, not sure this is the only one I have had.  
And I have found some difference in the type of pellet I burn so yes when I burning the Cubex this is less of an issue vs. when burning MWP.  
And yes, I believe this has to a lot to do with my house and the lack of insulation or the need for more I should say.


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## Madcodger (Dec 16, 2013)

john193 said:


> The Mt Vernon AE is probably one of the quietest stoves out there; however, every once in a while I do get this resonance noise.  It is short in duration and does seem to correspond to when the stove is chugging along at a higher rate.
> 
> As Harvey indicated, those experiencing "a lot of noise" are likely experiencing it because of a loose ash pan. Then it sounds like a freight train.


Ditto.  And a push on the ash pan generally resolves it.  Basically tells me I didn't get it pushed back in correctly after a cleaning.  Could Quad redisgn the pan/gasket for a better fit?  Probably.  But is fine if you push it back correctly.  Just no tolerance for error.


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## Madcodger (Dec 16, 2013)

Peter Martin said:


> OK, thanks.  So, the flame height setting controls how fast the convection fan runs or the feed rate?
> 
> One more question:  when I first got the stove, it look a long time for the glass to get dirty.  Now it gets dirty within the first day after a clean.  I've been good about frequently cleaning the stove, including the baffle.  Is there anything else I'm missing that I can do to avoid the dirty glass?  It's frustrating because I have a Castille in the other room and that runs for a week (on the same pellets) without the glass being dirty at all.  I apply the same cleaning regime to both stoves.  Any ideas?


One other thing we haven't really discussed was Peter's question about the glass getting dirty.  I'm having the same issue with my MVAE and would appreciate ideas / suggestions, please. 

The stove has an OAK, was thoroughly cleaned by dealer before season started (motor pulled, new gasket, brushes through vents, etc).  I clean the baffle, vacuum and bottle brush the lower exhaust ports each month, and burn Hamer's (very low ash).  The flame is generally bright (although on low it's more orange than I'd like) and the stove heats well.  But the glass is filthy within a day!  Ideas?


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## Harvey Schneider (Dec 16, 2013)

Madcodger said:


> The stove has an OAK, was thoroughly cleaned by dealer before season started (motor pulled, new gasket, brushes through vents, etc). I clean the baffle, vacuum and bottle brush the lower exhaust ports each month, and burn Hamer's (very low ash). The flame is generally bright (although on low it's more orange than I'd like) and the stove heats well. But the glass is filthy within a day! Ideas?


With regard to soot on the glass I find that running in manual with flame height above +3 is slightly better than automatic. It still looks dirty most of the time, but it takes a bit longer to get there. I only clean the window once a week and I can still see detail of the fire at the end of the week. On auto I could barely see the fire at the end of the week. I will still go back to auto when the weather gets mild.


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## john193 (Dec 16, 2013)

I use auto with feed rating of plus 2. Did a full cleaning yesterday, which included the baffle, exhaust ports, the combustion blower, and my liner.

Within 24 hours I get a gray haze on the glass with a bias to the right side of the stove (looking at stove). 24 to 48 hours later the gray gets slightly darker and further on. The dark haze tends to form more on the upper portion of the glass and slowly moves down. At the end of the week about a third of the glass is covered. I can still see the fire at day 7, but the upper portion of the glass has turned dark gray to brown with fly ash on it. Has been like this since day one. Never thought anything of it.

As a side note, I have no OAK and the stove is cleaned weekly no matter the number of bags burned. With the current temps I'm averaging about 8 to 11 bags a week.


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## LMPS (Dec 16, 2013)

john193 said:


> Within 24 hours I get a gray haze on the glass with a bias to the right side of the stove (looking at stove). 24 to 48 hours later the gray gets slightly darker and further on. The dark haze tends to form more on the upper portion of the glass and slowly moves down. At the end of the week about a third of the glass is covered. I can still see the fire at day 7, but the upper portion of the glass has turned dark gray to brown with fly ash on it. Has been like this since day one. Never thought anything of it.
> 
> Ditto, the right side of the stove thing has always baffled me, why would it be more on the right side vs the left?
> Also, I found that the ash is a lot blacker if I am burning on a lower heat output, meaning if it is set to low, medium low or even medium it will get dirty faster and be more black vs gray then if I am burning on medium high or high.
> ...


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## john193 (Dec 16, 2013)

I'm not sure why the bias to the right either.  My XXV did a similar thing, but it was more to the left.  My guess is because the combustion blower is on the right in the MVAE.  Perhaps this has something to do with it?


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## Madcodger (Dec 16, 2013)

Well, I'm feeling better about my stove now...  I have never lost clear view of the fire, and in fact the middle remains essentially clear.  No burning to one side, either.  Imagine an arch of soot (black) over top 1/3 of glass and down outer edges of glass and that's it.


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## LMPS (Dec 17, 2013)

john193 said:


> I'm not sure why the bias to the right either.  My XXV did a similar thing, but it was more to the left.  My guess is because the combustion blower is on the right in the MVAE.  Perhaps this has something to do with it?



I think you are onto something with the combustion blower being on that side.


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## 65fl (Jan 4, 2014)

I have a new Mt Vernon installed last May so this is our first season with it. It too started the rumbling, checked the ash pan and that wasn't the source. Gave it a good cleaning paying particular attention to the exhaust ports VA Bugler pointed out and it solved my problem. Or it could be the baffle was vibrating and by me removing it and replacing it solved the problem. I have a feeling I will be solving the problem a few times during the heating season. But I love this stove, it is so quiet (when not starting) and beautiful to look at. Much nicer than the old Whitfield Advantage Plus in the basement.


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## Mike111957 (Feb 21, 2016)

My Mt Vernon quad ra fire runs fantastic. However, when in the auto lean process the plate sticks. I then need to help it along with a screw driver..Does anyone have this experience? Springs seem to be pressing too tight.. Can the be adjusted?


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## kappel15 (Feb 21, 2016)

What year stove do you have, and what rev. is the control box. Earlier models had an issue with not enough power on the return stroke of the auto-clean. Otherwise, it may be time to clean the pot floor of any clinker residue that is jamming against the side of the pot. I would also check the auto-clean motor mount bolt, as it can loosen and cause this issue also. It is behind the ashpan, on the back wall. And no, the springs are not adjustable. kap


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## Mike111957 (Feb 21, 2016)

kappel15 said:


> What year stove do you have, and what rev. is the control box. Earlier models had an issue with not enough power on the return stroke of the auto-clean. Otherwise, it may be time to clean the pot floor of any clinker residue that is jamming against the side of the pot. I would also check the auto-clean motor mount bolt, as it can loosen and cause this issue also. It is behind the ashpan, on the back wall. And no, the springs are not adjustable. kap


 Thank you! I'll check the bolt.. The stove is about 8 years old.. When installed, the plate was somewhat loose and new springs were installed. The issue began shortly thereafter.. The company was difficult to deal with and is no longer in business. I've been cleaning regularly but manually helping the return process all along.. Makes me think the return power issue that you mention may be the root cause. Thank again!!


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## kappel15 (Feb 22, 2016)

We need to know the year and rev. #. It is on the control board, on a white sticker. It should be something like SRV7000- something. kap


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## Mike111957 (Feb 22, 2016)

kappel15 said:


> We need to know the year and rev. #. It is on the control board, on a white sticker. It should be something like SRV7000- something. kap


Thanks.. I looked at my receipts.. I purchased the stove in February, 2008. I did not yet have a chance to check the mounting bolt . Appreciate if you could give me some guidance on the location of the control board.. I assume it's in the rear of the stove near the blower mechanism.


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## kappel15 (Feb 22, 2016)

You need to remove the left side panel. 4 screws. It is right behind it. They added the power stroke code  1-11-07. Would of been the 6.10A code. Page 32,picture 32.2 of your owners manual shows a pic of area of stove. kap


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## Mike111957 (Feb 24, 2016)

Thanks! The control board info is as follows:
Berquest Torrington
Hearth stove control board
P/N: 450-15-0031 rev. B4
Mfg date: 061318
S/N: 5154

I also checked the auto lean linkage and bolt.. Seems to be tight. There's a T type bar that hangs from the linkage under the plate.. Seems it ranges from not being in a steady position.. Can be off to the side, rather loose, to in the center and loose or tight..A cotter pin connection...


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## kappel15 (Feb 24, 2016)

Did you purchase it new in 2008?  This is an old control board. Only way to fix this, is to buy a new control board that has the power stoke revision in it. kap


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## Mike111957 (Feb 24, 2016)

Yes.. I purchased this stove new in 2008. The bolt behind the ash pan seemed to be tight.. I will check again as I was looking at the t-bar.. I do not have a quiet setting for the blower option in the thermostat settings.


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## kappel15 (Feb 24, 2016)

Whoever you bought it from, didn't do the upgrades as they should of. This is why you have an old control board in it. kap


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## Mike111957 (Feb 25, 2016)

Hey KAP.. The advice for using high temp anti seize grease on the rails is working. Thank you I'd buy you a beer if I could!
Mike


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## kappel15 (Feb 26, 2016)

Glad it is helping some. Don't know how much it will help. May have to re-apply from time to time.  This is only a temp fix, sorry to say. Stay warm. kap


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