# Motor Wiring & Pellet Build Up



## mkpanache (Jan 20, 2012)

Hello Folks,

I am at wits end with my St. Croix Prescott EXL. I have tried to join every forum and read every article that I can about this stove. Anytime I try to run this stove at any heat setting over three the stove will back up the pellets in the burn pot and its backs up into the chute where the pellets drop & for the most part my flame is huge. This stove has run like this since day 1. As long as I stay at 3 and below its fine. But sometimes in New England that is just not enough. I also have to keep the feed level at 1 & 4 which is the lowest setting. Ok so tonight I get my infamous #2 light that I get a couple of times a year. So I pulled the stove out of my fireplace and start to take the motor out. Getting ready to disconnect the Black and the White but the brown is chopped off. Look on the side of the door and their no schematic. I am sure that it is user era but I can not get this stove to work properly and I have had it for 3 years. I have had two boards replaced in the computer, and I have had this unit installed by professionals. Chimney is probably 20ft high and the company put a liner in the fireplace. I am getting a lot of clunkers in the burn pot, I am using New Englander Pellets. I love the stove and I love the money it saves me. But it can't be this hard to get a stove running properly. I clean the burn pot area once a day. I would appreciate any input you could provide. I have gone back to the dealer numerous times with no luck. I have emailed the company and still no luck, and actually I have never got a reply back from the company.


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## smoke show (Jan 20, 2012)

Does the versa grate work properly?


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## Wi Thundercat (Jan 20, 2012)

Which motor are you reffering to removing? If you mean the combustion blower, mine also has a brown wire with a spade terminal on the end and it is not hooked to anything. Hope this helps!


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## HopeItBurns (Jan 20, 2012)

Do you have OAK installed? What is your EVL (Equivalent Vent Length).  Did the installers use 3 inch or 4 inch exhaust pipe. Do you clean your exhaust piping at end of year? After running 1 ton thru, do you clean behind the plates inside stove. Do you take out your combustion blower and clean the fins?  Number 2 light blinking could be "The vent system is plugged with fly ash." or  "defective vacuum switch or hose"   or look here on page 17:
http://stcroixstoves.com/pdfs/Pellet Manuals/Prescott Manuals.pdf


Clunkers or Clinkers could be the result of bad pellets, no OAK or poor or dirty venting.


Question for the Pellet pigs on forum: what's the quality of New England Pellets?


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 20, 2012)

We need the information on exactly how the stove is vented  (being done by professionals doesn't mean the job was done correctly).

In addition we need to know how the damper is set and how you clean the stove.

Was the stove originally new when you got it or was it a used stove? 

And if you are using an OAK and if not information about any other air moving devices in the house and what floor the stove is one and how many floors are in the house.


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## HopeItBurns (Jan 20, 2012)

sorry about link above, link will not link so (tried to edit 10 times) try here http://stcroixstoves.com/pellet-stove-prescottexl.php    then click on owners manual


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## smoke show (Jan 20, 2012)

HopeItBurns said:
			
		

> Do you have OAK installed? What is your EVL (Equivalent Vent Length).  Did the installers use 3 inch or 4 inch exhaust pipe. Do you clean your exhaust piping at end of year? After running 1 ton thru, do you clean behind the plates inside stove. Do you take out your combustion blower and clean the fins?  Number 2 light blinking could be "The vent system is plugged with fly ash." or  "defective vacuum switch or hose"   or look here on page 17:
> http://tinyurl.com/7wsycme
> 
> 
> ...



^^^^^^^^^ fixed broken link ^^^^^^^^^^^^


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## HopeItBurns (Jan 20, 2012)

Smoke Show:  Thanks but how did you do that? PM me when ya get a chance.


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## mkpanache (Jan 20, 2012)

I would to thank all of you for your quick response. I will try to answer what I can and will get the information that you need to give me best case senario.

1. I bought the stove brand new from a dealer $3500.00. And it has run this way since day 1.
2. In the 20 years I have been in my house the fireplace that I showed you in the picture had never been used until I put the new stove in.
3. I do not know the diameter of the pipe but I will find out and I do not know what a EVL is.
4. My Damper is open to the point that I can just squeeze my pinkie in the opening. If I go less than that I get a lazy flame. At a pinkie " sorry for lamen's terms" I get the nice v-flame. But still cannot run it above 3 without backup in the burn pot and up the shoot.
5. I clean the exhaust pipe on the back of the stove two or three times a year. That is how many times I get light#2. The chimney lining has not been done since I put the stove in, but the chimmy was never used until the pellet stove went in. And this is how the stove had always run, except for excessive klinkers.
6. My routine for cleaning the stove is as follow: Empty ash pan and vac out left over ash. Then I remove the top plate near the exhaust tubes and plate and the tubes get cleaned. To the immediate right and left in the corner of those tubes there are a couple holes you can get a snake in and get ash to drop down behind the fake side wall. That fake side wall also gets a cleaning. Then I remove the quick access plates that allow you to get behind the brick wall and I run a snake up there on a electric drill and I hit that. I have even gone as far as run a aircompressor line in and a attach a small pvc hose that will go on my air compressor blower attachment and stuff that behind the brick wall. Makes a mess but hey if the kids are warm that's all that matters to me. 
7. Take the burn pot out and scrap off any debris or build up on the pot itself.  Right across from the burn pot this is tube that runs in behind the brick wall. I clean that out with my attachment for my pellet stove vac. Then I put it all back together and fire it up...This is  my major cleaning to me gets done every other week. My daily cleaning is to shut the stove down..empty ash pan...clean the burn pot and the burn pot area. Reinstall the parts and off I go. My brick crumbled and I never bothered to replace but most people seem to say you really don't need it.
8. What size bottle brush will fit behind the firewall??
9. I don't know what you mean by having oak installed. If you mean the flooring in the room its just a laminate.
10. I only take the combustion fan out when I have too. Its difficult with my fireplace to get at the combustion motor out without pulling the stove off the hearth and that stove weights a ton for one guy.
11. Like I said it has run this way since day 1...Replaced computer boards twice as well. Are these stoves or any stoves supposed to be this much maintenance??
12. Also I have a very high vertical chimney probably 20' high so using a leaf blower on the roof would be kind of tough to do.
13. Does this stove like a certain kind of pellet over another??

Here is the link and the specs on the pellets I am using.
http://www.pelletheat.com/products-a-services/our-products.html

I have tried other pellets lot of kinds of pellets and it did not seem to make a huge difference.

Thanks to all of you,
Mark

Do you have OAK installed? What is your EVL (Equivalent Vent Length).  Did the installers use 3 inch or 4 inch exhaust pipe. Do you clean your exhaust piping at end of year? After running 1 ton thru, do you clean behind the plates inside stove. Do you take out your combustion blower and clean the fins?  Number 2 light blinking could be â€œThe vent system is plugged with fly ash.â€ or â€œdefective vacuum switch or hoseâ€  or look here on page 17:
http://stcroixstoves.com/pdfs/Pellet Manuals/Prescott Manuals.pdf


Clunkers or Clinkers could be the result of bad pellets, no OAK or poor or dirty venting.


Question for the Pellet pigs on forum: whatâ€™s the quality of New England Pellets?


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 20, 2012)

Ok,

EVL is equivalent vent length and is used to determine when to go from 3" to 4" venting and if you can even vent the stove with proposed venting.

It is calculated by summing up the following that are in your vent configuration.

1 foot of vertical straight  pipe = 0.5 EVL
1 foot of horizontal straight pipe = 1.0 EVL
90 degree elbows or tees = 5 .0 EVL if vertically oriented or 10.0 if horizontally oriented
45 degree elbows = 2.5 EVL if vertical or 5.0 EVL if horizontal

All "horizontal" runs must have at least 1/4" per foot of rise.

Now any reference to stoves and OAKs on this site refers to an Outside Air Kit, this connects your air intake directly to outdoors.

All pellets are different they are not always the same from batch to batch even with the same brand.

The reason why you are asked about an OAK is because it eliminates competition for the air in the house as but one benefit.

Since you have your venting up through a fireplace flue how good a block off job did they do?


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 20, 2012)

NEWP has multiple plants and different mixes I defer to j-takeman's measurements https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/50101/ for information  I have never burned them.


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## mkpanache (Jan 20, 2012)

OMG I am such a idiot I had no idea what those terms meant... basically from what I can see they did not do a block off at the flue. Everything is wide open the lining goes straight up the chimney with a cap on the top...There is no block near the bottom of the fireplace. They put one elbow and that is at the bottom of the fireplace to get the pipe into the stove. Would pictures of the fireplace inside and out be helpful??


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## mkpanache (Jan 20, 2012)

FYI the fireplace is on the main floor of the house. so its only heating the main floor and the top floor, no basement.


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## mkpanache (Jan 20, 2012)

A couple of other things.  Now that I have looked up some of the terms and done a bit of reading, I understand a bit more.

There is no OAK installed, and we have no block off.  When we went to purchase this stove, told the dealer what we needed.  I took pictures of the house, inside and out.  What we have is what we ended up with.

Thank you all for your help.  I appreciate it very much.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 20, 2012)

Is there anything else you want to know, we answer questions all of the time here, that is what the forum is for, answer questions and provide help.  You are our eyes, ears, and hands.

Welcome to the forum, pull up a chair and get warm by the fire.

There are a lot of fine folks on here and some of them are running the stove you have.

Usually after you get past initial install issues most problems are cleaning related, so we tend to hit rather hard trying to determine how folks clean their stoves, it eliminates a lot of possible problems.


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## mkpanache (Jan 20, 2012)

Yes, I have a few, but I think I need to post some pictures of my house first.  Thanks so much

ETA:  I also want to provide more of the requested information.


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## F6hawk (Jan 20, 2012)

.


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## HopeItBurns (Jan 20, 2012)

Well your EVL if your at 20 foot height is determined by this: (15 is the number your looking for)

â€¢90 degree elbows or clean out tees count of 5' of pipe
â€¢45 degree elbows count as 3' of pipe
â€¢Pipe running horizontally counts as 1' of pipe for 1' of pipe
â€¢Pipe running vertically counts as 1/2' of pipe for 1' of pipe



but to be honest, being your chimney hight is 20 foot verticle and probaby have a 90 plus don't know your horizontal length, I would have went with 4 inch diameter.

Plus I recommend to put Outside air kit in even if your dealer/installer said it was not needed.

If you can't clean your chimney vent stack on the roof, either hire out or unhook your exhaust vent at your stove and blow out the vent stack out with a leaf blower or  use a vacuum and knock on the pipe to get all the ash out. Their is a vacuum switch in your stove and if you suck on that with the vacuum, you could possibly screw it up so disconnect the little rubber hose first and also don't forget to unplug your stove.

oh, another thing while you have it pulled out, take the combustion blower off and clean it, you may need a new gasket for re-installation.


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## mkpanache (Mar 2, 2012)

Sigh.

I'm back.  March 1st.  I just don't get it.  I took the entire stove apart completely.  Blew the entire thing out.  I am vacuuming the thing out every other day.  Doing a weekly cleaning.  It shut down with light #2 today, and the entire thing is backed up with ash.  Even the pipe leading into the chimney is packed solid.  I pulled that stove off the hearth and blew out every single part.  It had never worked so good.  Here are photos pf the piping, the chimney, the ash, everything.  The ash is very powdery, like clay dust.  Is my chimney too tall?  Should I go right out the back and not straight up?  I had a cover over the openings of the fireplace so everything was sealed up, and I took that off.  The stove seemed to run so much better, but now it just stopped again.  I am at a loss.  Pictures are really big so you can see detail.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Mar 2, 2012)

Have you cleaned out the ash traps in the stove?

There are at least two (and possibly three) plugs that can be removed to gain access to the ash traps.  You need to really loosen up and suck all of the crap out of those areas.  If you have only two plugs you need to go in from the combustion blower cavity to really reach the third problem area.   Do not open up the combustion blower cavity without having a new gasket.  When you remove the combustion blower you are likely to destroy the gasket.

Also is your versagrate operating?  If that stops running it is possible it is partially blocking your air flow.

You should also check your damper to make certain it hasn't been inadvertently closed to far.


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## mkpanache (Mar 2, 2012)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

> Have you cleaned out the ash traps in the stove?
> 
> There are at least two (and possibly three) plugs that can be removed to gain access to the ash traps.  You need to really loosen up and suck all of the crap out of those areas.  If you have only two plugs you need to go in from the combustion blower cavity to really reach the third problem area.   Do not open up the combustion blower cavity without having a new gasket.  When you remove the combustion blower you are likely to destroy the gasket.
> 
> ...



Thank you for your reply.  This has been an ongoing issue from day one.  Every ash trap has been and is now clean.  I just finished blowing and vacuuming that stove yet again.  My versagrate motor is operating fine - that has never seemed to have been an issue.  My damper is open.  

I had to take off the combustion motor and blow out the stove from there, but I didn't destroy destroy the gasket.  Would that gasket have anything to do with clogging the pipe in the chimney?  This major cleaning needs to be done three to four times every year since I have purchased this stove, and that just does not seem right.  I can see the stove getting plugged, but the chimney?  I just spent the entire night cleaning the entire stove, and light #2 is still on.

I am going to have to call someone, I think.


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## DBCOOPER (Mar 2, 2012)

Can you take it outside and run it without any exhaust hooked up to it and see how it runs?


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## mkpanache (Mar 2, 2012)

It's just me and my wife.  I don't know if I can get that thing outside.  That's a great idea, though.

I did something I swore I swore I would never do.  I bypassed the pressure/ vacuum switch, but the flame wouldn't stay running because there just wasn't enough air.  Obviously, I missed something when I cleaned it.

$175 for the first two hours and $60 for each hour after for a professional to clean it.  God.   I don't know that I have a choice.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Mar 2, 2012)

mkpanache said:
			
		

> It's just me and my wife.  I don't know if I can get that thing outside.  That's a great idea, though.
> 
> I did something I swore I swore I would never do.  I bypassed the pressure/ vacuum switch, but the flame wouldn't stay running because there just wasn't enough air.  Obviously, I missed something when I cleaned it.
> 
> $175 for the first two hours and $60 for each hour after for a professional to clean it.  God.   I don't know that I have a choice.



Can you get to the vent pipe in the chimney?

If so check the termination cap for crud plugging it and while you are up there and the stove is completely back together attach an electric leaf blower and suck the crud out.

I wasn't kidding when I said there was a hard spot to clean on those stoves, also have you used a stiff brush and given the heat exchanger tubes a very good cleaning (remember to use a face mask)?

Also make certain there is no down slope in that section that the clean out tee attaches to.  

You need to do a deep cleaning job (stove) every single ton of pellets burned.


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## mkpanache (Mar 2, 2012)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

> mkpanache said:
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The roof is covered with snow - I can't get up there the way it is now, but I am going to suck the stove out with the leaf blower.  I know the combustion motor area is plugged; I thought I got everything last night, but I was wrong.  I am going to turn my stove and run bendable piping outside the window to suck it all out.  I have not cleaned the heat exchange tubes.  Will the blower take care of this?  There is no down slope, so I think I am okay with that.  I should have been using a face mask all along - I haven't been.

But what is this about a deep cleaning after every ton?  If I go through three ton a season, that's three of these cleanings each year?  I have been told by many that this kind of cleaning should only be done once per season.  

Thank you for your help.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Mar 2, 2012)

mkpanache said:
			
		

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The leaf blower is not likely to get any bonded crap off of the heat exchanger, however with a means of running it while scrapping will prevent crud from coming back at you while you poke and scrape.

Yes that three cleanings of the stove a year is about right burning three tons, with a decent pellet you can go a ton and a half and make it two cleanings.

I take advantage of my vent set up and do it every half to one ton, it is at most a ten minute thing for me, most of the time is lugging the blower out and putting it back.


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## mkpanache (Mar 2, 2012)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

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Ok, that's good to know about the exchanger.  Thank you.  And three cleanings - holy cow.  But that's why I am looking to go straight through my chimney now.  I have a call into a contractor to see if it will ruin the structural integrity of the chimney.  If not, then I will call the town to see if I can get a permit.   

Let me ask you this.  A guy just told me that he used to use New Englander pellets, and they did this same thing to his stove.  That's what I use.  Should I change brands?


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## krooser (Mar 2, 2012)

Have you REALLY cleaned out behind the back wall of the stove? I mean really cleaned it with a coat hangar/bottle brush or equivalent? These stoves plug with ash and should be cleaned this way after every ton... tap on the inside back wall with a small hammer...it will help dislodge the ash. 

Try the leafblower trick if you can...it will make a huge difference in how the stove operates....

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/91704/


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## mkpanache (Mar 3, 2012)

krooser said:
			
		

> Have you REALLY cleaned out behind the back wall of the stove? I mean really cleaned it with a coat hangar/bottle brush or equivalent? These stoves plug with ash and should be cleaned this way after every ton... tap on the inside back wall with a small hammer...it will help dislodge the ash.
> 
> Try the leafblower trick if you can...it will make a huge difference in how the stove operates....
> 
> https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/91704/



Coat hanger, bottle brush, air compressor, snake on a cordless drill. Yes, I have.  I have a stove cleaning tool kit.

I have the leaf blower running now.  

What I don't get is why.  Why is that back wall from the combustion motor to the back wall  by the fake wall always plugged when I am doing daily and weekly cleanings?  Is it the stove?  The pellets?  I must need to get up on the roof.  

I checked the exchange tubes -they are clear.  I am pretty sure I know where it is plugging.  Since I am doing the right daily/ weekly maintenance, I don't get why it is plugging.

I haven't tried the hammer, though.  Thank you!


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## SmokeyTheBear (Mar 3, 2012)

If the cap on your venting is plugged (and this definitely happens) very little of the fly ash leaves the flue and it all ends up falling down the flue.

You also need to make certain that your venting is installed in the proper manner, absolutely no dips or even flat runs, it must always be going up.

Also your cleaning must always be going away from any area you already cleaned or you are just pushing the ash into the area you just cleaned.

Once the ash starts piling up more ash is generated due to the compromised air flow, it is a vicious circle.  You must get the entire stove cleaned out otherwise you will see little improvement and the process repeats, you get pi$$ed off and someone gets a good deal on Craig's List.

ETA:  Your stove manufacturer also recommend that the stove be operated with the damper only open about a pencil width.


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## mkpanache (Mar 3, 2012)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

> If the cap on your venting is plugged (and this definitely happens) very little of the fly ash leaves the flue and it all ends up falling down the flue.
> 
> You also need to make certain that your venting is installed in the proper manner, absolutely no dips or even flat runs, it must always be going up.
> 
> ...



I wish I could get up there.  I have no way to until the snow melts.

The venting is installed correctly, and I don't push ash into any of the areas I have already cleaned.  This stove has been clogging from six months after I bought it.  The venting cap could have plugged that soon?  Oh, the leaf blower trick did not work.  Light #2 came right back on.  And this stove was whistle clean in January.  I could have eaten off of it.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Mar 3, 2012)

mkpanache said:
			
		

> SmokeyTheBear said:
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That  light will come on if the vent cap is plugged as there is still no air flow through the system.


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## DexterDay (Mar 3, 2012)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

> mkpanache said:
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Under the right conditions. A termination cap can clog within a ton burned? 

The vent and cap should be cleaned at least every ton.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Mar 3, 2012)

If using that leaf blower you can get a seal to the vent going up the flue with the output end of the blower you can attempt cleaning that cap by using the blower to blow uo towards that cap.  Just be certain you get the business end pointed in the correct direction.


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## mkpanache (Mar 3, 2012)

Yet another reason to make me want to go through the chimney.  Is this just for the St. Croix or for all stoves?  No one mentioned scaling a 30 foot chimney for every 50 bags of pellets.  The other issue is that this clogged even before we burned through one ton of pellets.  

Anyway.  I just fixed it.  The clog was between the combustion motor and the ash trap.  I just don't understand *why* it's clogging in that place.  I wish I could see that area.  It would be so much easier to clean.


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## mkpanache (Mar 3, 2012)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

> If using that leaf blower you can get a seal to the vent going up the flue with the output end of the blower you can attempt cleaning that cap by using the blower to blow uo towards that cap.  Just be certain you get the business end pointed in the correct direction.



Thank you.  That's good to know.

Thank you everyone for your help.  On to the next 40 days.


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## smoke show (Mar 3, 2012)

mkpanache said:
			
		

> No one mentioned scaling a 30 foot chimney for every 50 bags of pellets.



I do at least once a season.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WDGm9QuaUI


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## DexterDay (Mar 3, 2012)

mkpanache said:
			
		

> ......................
> But what is this about a deep cleaning after every ton?  If I go through three ton a season, that's three of these cleanings each year?  I have been told by MANY that this kind of cleaning should only be done once per season.
> 
> Thank you for your help.



Were you told that it only needes to be done once a year, by "Many Dealers"? 

Or was this message from people who currently own and operate a pellet stove?

Can some people make it a full year? Yes... Is it ideal?? No. These are mechanical and therefore need maintenance. A woodstove is much less mechanical, but the flue should still be inspected and cleaned Monthly, until you know how your burning habits effect the chimney/flue.

Same goes for pellet stoves. Very long Vertical runs have a hard time pushing all the fly ash up and out. So it tends to build up in the bottom of the T, or vertical adapter (if an insert). Horizontal runs will build up as well. The heavy stuff just lays in the vent. 

Pellet stoves require a good maintenance schedule and a thorough hand when cleaning. Once the schedule has been done and a good guideline on how often, to clean what, has been established. It becomes second nature and only takes a minute.

Hope you get it figured out... Have you tried a different pellet yet (sorry if I missed it)??


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## mkpanache (Mar 3, 2012)

Were you told that it only needes to be done once a year, by "Many Dealers"?  *Yes, I had..,by my dealer, but also some friends I called last night who own stoves.  They are blaming the pellets.*

Or was this message from people who currently own and operate a pellet stove?  *Yes, that, too.*

Can some people make it a full year? Yes... Is it ideal?? No. These are mechanical and therefore need maintenance. A woodstove is much less mechanical, but the flue should still be inspected and cleaned Monthly, until you know how your burning habits effect the chimney/flue. 

Same goes for pellet stoves. Very long Vertical runs have a hard time pushing all the fly ash up and out. So it tends to build up in the bottom of the T, or vertical adapter (if an insert). Horizontal runs will build up as well. The heavy stuff just lays in the vent.   *This is what I had- I pile of clay like ash in the adapter.*

Pellet stoves require a good maintenance schedule and a thorough hand when cleaning. Once the schedule has been done and a good guideline on how often, to clean what, has been established. It becomes second nature and only takes a minute.  *Here is my issue, though.  I have that schedule.  I do a daily cleaning.  I do a thorough weekly cleaning.  That major cleaning you were referencing? I have *had* to do it at least three times each year because that's how many times light #2 comes on.  I can't get around it.  Did you see the manual posted on the leaf blower thread? There was a section on owner maintenance. I have been following that to the letter.  I keep getting this one ash plug and an over abundance of general ash.  I don't get it.  *

Hope you get it figured out... Have you tried a different pellet yet (sorry if I missed it)??  *Not yet, but as of tomorrow, that's my next step.  Everyone I talked to yesterday told me they had the same issue when using the same pellets.  They told me to try Oakies.  I need to travel 40 miles to get them, but if they work, it will be worth it not to have to go through this. *

*Thank you very much for your help.  I really appreciate it.*


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## SmokeyTheBear (Mar 3, 2012)

mkpanache said:
			
		

> Were you told that it only needes to be done once a year, by "Many Dealers"?  *Yes, I had..,by my dealer, but also some friends I called last night who own stoves.  They are blaming the pellets.*
> 
> Or was this message from people who currently own and operate a pellet stove?  *Yes, that, too.*
> 
> ...




Many dealers are full of horse do do.  They should all talk in terms of ash produced which is the proper way of doing it.

If you burn dirt in a bag you'll get many times the amount of ash than if you burn a high quality pellet.  That means things have to be cleaned sooner and more often.

ETA: BTW that brand of stove you have is noted for having a hard to clean spot, and on some of their newer versions of the stoves they added another clean out.   There are many posts on here about bad burns.


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## The Other One (Mar 3, 2012)

The spot you are describing is the hard to clean spot in the St. Croix.  The new models have a third ash trap door to solve this.  Without the leaf blower trick, the only way I have gotten at that area in the past was removing the combustion motor and scraping it with a bottle brush and then using the shop vac. The leaf blower still did a better job.  Also, you need to remove the fake bricks and hit the wall behind them with a rubber mallet.  That really gets a lot of the stuff.  Blowing on the vacuum tube may really help your vacuum switch issue.  I run a horizontal exhaust vent, so I don't know about your vent cap issues.  But, it sounds like your vent pipe may run horizontally out the side of your house and then vertically up.  If so, maybe you can disconnect the pipe somewhere low out side and connect the leaf blower without having to get up on the roof.


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## mkpanache (Mar 3, 2012)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

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Hi, Smokey. My name is Kirsten,  I'm Mark's wife.  He ran out to get some Oakies.  We found a pellet place that sells them fairly close by that sells them, and when I spoke to the owner, he said that the pellets we have been using since 2009 have been known for causing issues with this area in the stove.  He also said that since we have never tried another brand of pellet - NO one has ever suggested that to us until now, not even our dealer (from whom we buy our pellets), we wouldn't be diagnosing our issue in accordance with pellets.  Mark was ready to throw the stove in the street last night. 

Thank you so much for all of your time and all of your help.


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## DexterDay (Mar 3, 2012)

mkpanache said:
			
		

> SmokeyTheBear said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I think your going to be pleasantly surprised by the Okies. Much.superior pellet, compared to NEWP. 

Get ready for a Heat Wave!! ;-P


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## mkpanache (Mar 3, 2012)

The Other One said:
			
		

> The spot you are describing is the hard to clean spot in the St. Croix.  The new models have a third ash trap door to solve this.  Without the leaf blower trick, the only way I have gotten at that area in the past was removing the combustion motor and scraping it with a bottle brush and then using the shop vac. The leaf blower still did a better job.  Also, you need to remove the fake bricks and hit the wall behind them with a rubber mallet.  That really gets a lot of the stuff.  Blowing on the vacuum tube may really help your vacuum switch issue.  I run a horizontal exhaust vent, so I don't know about your vent cap issues.  But, it sounds like your vent pipe may run horizontally out the side of your house and then vertically up.  If so, maybe you can disconnect the pipe somewhere low out side and connect the leaf blower without having to get up on the roof.



Hi, Other One.  My name is Kirsten. We have the Prescott.  That flipping area absolutely stinks.  Mark takes off that motor every time this happens, goes through it with a bottle brush, and then uses a metal shop vac that has been designed for vacuuming hot ash. He bought this so that he can vac out hot ash nightly when he gets home from work. He also has a snake he uses with a cordless drill. I should also mention that the fake bricks are gone.  We removed them at one point, and somehow, they broke.  Would that make ash get in that area more quickly?

Anyway, he did smack the back wall with a rubber mallet both before and while we were doing the leaf blower thing.  Also, you're correct about how the vent pile is situated.  It is run on a slight incline horizontally, and then vertically up.  Yesterday, we spent about $125 buying the blower, flexible piping, tape, adapters, etc. to get the blower to run out the window.  We got a huge ten second PUFF, and then about 20 minutes of occasional "stuff."  We got nothing like what you all had shown in the videos.  I am really jealous that you go straight out.  That's what we are going to look into, but I don't know if we can the way our chimney is constructed.

So we got it running, but now the stove won't see the Smartstat.  I'm happy because at least it's running.  I put it on manual, and it was running like a bear, but it was getting too hot.  I went to power it back from 4 to 3, and the board was frozen.  I unplugged the stove to do a reset, and when I plugged it back in, I could not get the right flame; the best I could get was a high, lazy, orange flame.

How could I go from a sharp, pointed flame to a lazy flame in a matter of seconds????  I reset the stove to the settings I had had it at before I shut it down, but nothing changed.  I feel like crying.  

Oh, I have been reading your replies along with my husband.  You are all unbelievably nice.  Thank you all for taking the time to help us out.


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## mkpanache (Mar 3, 2012)

DexterDay said:
			
		

> mkpanache said:
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> 
> 
> ...



Hi, Dexter.  That's so good to know.  From just last night, we have had major ash build up in the front of that stove.  

Kirsten


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## SmokeyTheBear (Mar 3, 2012)

Welcome Kirsten.

This place exists in part to help with problems.  Most folks here try to help and we like it when the problems get solved.

More than one or two of us has burned high ash producing pellets and have done a lot of extra cleaning as a result.  When you are prepared for that, things aren't so bad, it is when you aren't that problems tend to really get bad.

If I was burning high ash stuff my cleaning schedule would be a lot different than it currently is and I'd be using my leaf blower once a week.  My venting is easier to work on than a tall chimney is.   However I would rig up an equivalent means I could use without getting up on the roof in the winter.   The problem is rarely with the vertical portion of a vent run (well with the exception of the termination cap).


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## mkpanache (Mar 3, 2012)

Hi, Smokey.  Thanks for the welcome.  As soon as Mark gets home, he is going to hook up the blower to the venting to try to clean the cap.  Honestly, though, I think we are going to need someone to come in to really go through everything.  One of our friends told us that when he ran his stove with the NEWPs, his house was engulfed in dust.  We never knew the pellet could affect the performance of the stove.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Mar 3, 2012)

If you buy just premium pellets there can be a factor of five in the ash amount produced between the least ash producing pellet and the most ash producing pellet.  Couple that with even being slightly off in your stoves fuel/air mixture and things can go downhill rather fast.

I've discovered that doing a bit more than the required cleaning tends to keep the stove burning well and the ole den warmer.

ETA: I've also done stupid things like seeing how long I can go between cleanings (26 bags is my longest) , however the stove cleaning side of me wins out and I clean the stove.  Now that imacman went for over a ton and was scaring the senior tech at the place that made his stove.


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## mkpanache (Mar 3, 2012)

Wow.  We had no idea about pellets.  None at all.  Mark is anal about cleaning that stove, absolutely anal, primarily because he has to pull it off the hearth every time he has to do this.  He has gotten to the point where he is beginning to despise the stove.  Even with better pellets,though, he won't stop his cleaning rigor.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Mar 3, 2012)

I burned some stuff early on that required the burn pot to be dumped at least twice a day.    

Thankfully, between changes to my stove and to the pellets things are a lot better these days.   

Sometimes it can take a bit of time to shake everything out.  

The primary reason a lot of stoves end up on Craig's list is because of dirt in the plumbing.


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## Xena (Mar 3, 2012)

mkpanache said:
			
		

> .   *This is what I had- I pile of clay like ash in the adapter.*



Def sounds like those pellets are garbage w high moisture.

Just for the record, Okanagan isn't the only clean burning pellet.
Hopefully there is somewhere a lot closer than 40 miles that
carries some better pellets.
I've got the same stove but with the bigger ash pan and have
never had the #2 blinking.   Right now I'm burning dirty pellets
which require more frequent cleaning but have never in 7 years
had "clay like ash" which sounds like moisture. 
I do have to go for the heavy cleaning ritual a few times a year
if burning dirty stuff but after this many years I've got it down to
a science and it doesn't more than an hour or so.   I've never had to
use a leaf blower but do use the hammer, coat hanger, and small diameter
hose attached to vac every time I do what you call the deep clean.  

Is water getting down your exhaust vent?  I ask because I see white streaks on it in
the picture that looks like the remnants of water/mineral deposit.
Maybe it's just this picture but that is how it looks to me.


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## jtakeman (Mar 3, 2012)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

> If you buy just premium pellets there can be a factor of five in the ash amount produced between the least ash producing pellet and the most ash producing pellet.  Couple that with even being slightly off in your stoves fuel/air mixture and things can go downhill rather fast.
> 
> I've discovered that doing a bit more than the required cleaning tends to keep the stove burning well and the ole den warmer.
> 
> ETA: I've also done stupid things like seeing how long I can go between cleanings (26 bags is my longest) , however the stove cleaning side of me wins out and I clean the stove. * Now that imacman went for over a ton and was scaring the senior tech at the place that made his stove.*



I think that record is beatable. But most feel the same as you. Better to have a nice tidy stove that blows more heat at you than out the vent. ;-)


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## mkpanache (Mar 3, 2012)

Xena said:
			
		

> mkpanache said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I don't know if that is moisture or not.  This is the first time we have had ash this way.  I am going to go ask my husband about the vent.

Oh, we put in the Okies and started the stove.  Light #2 popped right on.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Mar 3, 2012)

Where is the damper set on that stove?

Please do a dollar bill test on the door gasket.


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## DexterDay (Mar 3, 2012)

Have you blown out the vacuum switch hose? Cleaned the barb it attaches to on the stove?

Edit: There are ways of checking the vacuum switch (multi meter) or you could jumper the vac switch (temporarily, to test). 

Definitely check all gaskets. But look into cleaning out the vacuum hose.


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## mkpanache (Mar 3, 2012)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

> Where is the damper set on that stove?
> 
> Please do a dollar bill test on the door gasket.



Damper is set about a tip of my pinkey open. Any less and the flame is lazy.  I will do a dollar bill test on the door gasket.  Thank you!


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## SmokeyTheBear (Mar 3, 2012)

mkpanache said:
			
		

> SmokeyTheBear said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Also do what Dexter is talking about.


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## DexterDay (Mar 3, 2012)

If you have a volt meter (and can access the vacuum switch easily, with the stove unplugged), you can disconnect the two wires and remove the hose from the stove, place the leads of the multi meter across the two terminals. Then lightly suck on the hose going to the switch. Set to ohms, the resistance should read zero while sucking. If not, it likely the switch can be faulty.

Although vacuum switchs rarely go bad. Its more likey a clog of some type in the hose, or the barb the hose goes on. Or low vacuum due to leaks in gaskets???


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## mkpanache (Mar 3, 2012)

DexterDay said:
			
		

> Have you blown out the vacuum switch hose? Cleaned the barb it attaches to on the stove?
> 
> Edit: There are ways of checking the vacuum switch (multi meter) or you could jumper the vac switch (temporarily, to test).
> 
> Definitely check all gaskets. But look into cleaning out the vacuum hose.



Yes, I have blown out the the hose, both with a compressor and with my mouth so I could feel it to see if it was blocked.  I did jump the vacuum switch to test it.  What do you mean by cleaning the barb?  I might have done that already.   I have even cleaned the legs that hold this thing on the stand, lol.  The only thing I have yet to do is blow the chimney.  But when I blew out that ash trap with the compressor - the stove worked. My wife shut it down, and it stopped.  If the issue were the chimney, why would it have worked in the first place?


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## SmokeyTheBear (Mar 3, 2012)

mkpanache said:
			
		

> DexterDay said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That vacuum hose goes between the switch and the stove at the stove end is a barb it must be clean.

Since you haven't yet cleaned the termination cap I send a good blast of air up the vent.

I'd also make certain that the damper is open exactly one #2 pencil width.


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## smoke show (Mar 3, 2012)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

> Since you haven't yet cleaned the termination cap I send a good blast of air up the vent.



My long vertical run gets a slight creosote type buildup up top.

Must be too cool up there.

A blast of air might not do it?

just sayin.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Mar 3, 2012)

smoke show said:
			
		

> SmokeyTheBear said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes I know.


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## The Other One (Mar 4, 2012)

I don't know that not having the fake bricks will cause an issue, but don't you now have a few small holes in the back wall that are now visible that used to be covered by the bricks.  I don't know that that will be a problem, but it may interfere with the correct air flow.  (I am not very concerned that this is your issue).  With everything else, I have read, I really think someone has to get up on the roof.  I know its going to be near 60 F up here near Buffalo next week, so maybe you will get a chance.


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## The Other One (Mar 4, 2012)

These are all the reasons the service manual lists for #2 blinking light:
1. Vacuum
Loss of vacuum may be causes by:
a. Operator error or neglect
ô€‚‰ Leaving the Main Door open too long
ô€‚‰ Forgetting to close the Main Door
ô€‚‰ Leaving the Ashpan Door open too long
ô€‚‰ Forgetting to close the Ashpan Door
ô€‚‰ Allowing the Chimney to get plugged.
ô€‚‰ Allowing the Ash Traps to get plugged.
If an owner calls in with a #2 diagnostic light flashing, first cover all items listed that may be caused by incorrect operation of the stove. Quiz the owner about their habits in regards to the Periodic maintenance. If they have been lax in cleaning the Ash Traps (See Figure 21 on Page 48) and venting system, have them first clean their stove and try it again.
b. Component Failure. Which components may be the cause?
ô€‚‰ Combustion Fan
ô€‚‰ Vacuum switch
ô€‚‰ Control Board
ô€‚‰ Vacuum hose
ô€‚‰ Wiring harness
ô€‚‰ Wiring connections
The component list dealing with Vacuum problems will need a closer look. Check the simplest item first.
â€¢ Check to see if the combustion Fan comes on.
ô€€¹ If the combustion Fan isnâ€™t running, check the wiring connections at the fan.
ô€€¹ Check the wiring connections on the opposite end at the Terminal Block (white wire) and at the Molex connector (Blue wire) that plugs into the control board. They may look OK, but in fact may not be making contact the pins from the control board.
ô€€¹ Check both wires in the harness for continuity if needed with an OHM meter. (White and Blue wire)
ô€€¹ Check for voltage at the fan, if voltage is present and the fan isnâ€™t running replace the combustion fan.
â€¢ Check the control board.
ô€€¹ Check for voltage at the pin out for the Blue wire at the control board. If no voltage is present replace the control board.
â€¢ Check all wiring connections related to the Vacuum system first.
ô€€¹ Check the 2 Gray wires that are plugged into the vacuum switch.
ô€€¹ If the wires are plugged in, check the opposite ends that are plugged into the control board. Make sure the wires a fully pushed into the Molex connector that plugs into the control board. They may look OK, but in fact may not be making contact the pins from the control board.
ô€€¹ Check the Gray wires for continuity if needed with an OHM meter.
â€¢ If all wires and connections are correct, check the vacuum switch.
ô€€¹ Unplug the 2 Gray wires and jump them together. Run the stove and see if that corrected the problem.
ô€€¹ If the stoves runs, check the vacuum reading in the stove using a manometer connected to the vacuum hose. Be sure to leave the 2 Gray wires jumped together or the stove will shut down again. The vacuum should be at least .05â€ WC negative pressure. The stove typically has a reading of between .1â€ and .25â€ WC negative pressure.
ô€€¹ If the vacuum reading is relatively low, check the intake air damper to see if it is wide open. Adjusting the damper to a position that is more closed will increase the Vacuum reading.
If dealing with an intermittent problem most likely it will be a problem in the wiring system related to a faulty connection or possibly a combustion fan that is getting too hot and the Thermal Override is shutting it down. This would likely be seen when the stove is running on the higher settings and the combustion fan should be check immediately after the stove shuts down. Once the fan cools down it may start running again.

http://www.eventempinc.com/stcroix/downloads/dig2/Digital_Control_Board_Service_Manual.pdf


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## mkpanache (Mar 4, 2012)

The Other One said:
			
		

> I don't know that not having the fake bricks will cause an issue, but don't you now have a few small holes in the back wall that are now visible that used to be covered by the bricks.  I don't know that that will be a problem, but it may interfere with the correct air flow.  (I am not very concerned that this is your issue).  With everything else, I have read, I really think someone has to get up on the roof.  I know its going to be near 60 F up here near Buffalo next week, so maybe you will get a chance.



Mark is on the roof now; .  He did the dollar bill thing, and the bill ripped trying to yank it out of the door.  That being said, he still wants to replace the rope.  We are going to blow it first, and then he is climbing up there.


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## mkpanache (Mar 4, 2012)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

> mkpanache said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ok, so he has not cleaned that barb. He will do that.  Is the barb that crimped part?

He is going to clean the termination cap now.

He will adjust the damper - hopefully we can get the stove running.


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## mkpanache (Mar 4, 2012)

The Other One said:
			
		

> These are all the reasons the service manual lists for #2 blinking light:
> 1. Vacuum
> Loss of vacuum may be causes by:
> a. Operator error or neglect
> ...



Both Mark and I read this; the manual is awesome!  This is where I saw the maintenance schedule.  If this doesn't work, he has the gear to check the electrical parts.


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## DexterDay (Mar 4, 2012)

The "barb" is just the fitting that the vacuum hose goes on. There will be a "barb" on the vacuum switch (and a "barb" on the stove. The vac hose connects to them. Clean the one on the stove. It likely.doesnt need cleaned (if he blew through the hose already and air went through), but it wont hurt to run a paperclip or some other small pointy object through the small hole. This "barb" is how the vacuum hose gets it vacuum. 

As for the door gasket. Did he check it in several spots? On all 4 sides of the door (top, bottom, and sides?)? If the bill wants to rip on all 4 sides, I wouldn't replace the gasket. Does this model have an ash pan? 

I hope that you guys get it figured out. At least if the cap is crudded up, that there will be a reason. So here is hoping that its whats messed up. A clean cap, is a happy cap.


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## mkpanache (Mar 4, 2012)

DexterDay said:
			
		

> The "barb" is just the fitting that the vacuum hose goes on. There will be a "barb" on the vacuum switch (and a "barb" on the stove. The vac hose connects to them. Clean the one on the stove. It likely.doesnt need cleaned (if he blew through the hose already and air went through), but it wont hurt to run a paperclip or some other small pointy object through the small hole. This "barb" is how the vacuum hose gets it vacuum.
> 
> As for the door gasket. Did he check it in several spots? On all 4 sides of the door (top, bottom, and sides?)? If the bill wants to rip on all 4 sides, I wouldn't replace the gasket. Does this model have an ash pan?
> 
> I hope that you guys get it figured out. At least if the cap is crudded up, that there will be a reason. So here is hoping that its whats messed up. A clean cap, is a happy cap.



I just did the dollar test, and it's tight.  Mark is on his way to buy a chimney cleaning kit; when he blew out the cap with the blower, about a four foot circle of black smoke came out from under the cap.  Now that he knows what the barb is (he isn't familiar with all of the stove terminology), he said he has tried all of that.  He is still going to do it all again, though. In fact, today, we are doing everything again.  The stove  is off the hearth.  After he blew out the cap, he hooked out the stove to the leaf blower.  We are just letting it run, and while he is getting the chimney kit, I am opening and shutting the front door, going through the ash traps with the cordless drill, and smacking the thing with the rubber mallet.

Oh, my husband and I are DJs and we sing in a rock band.  Last night he had a gig, and when he came home, the furnace was out  Thank GOD he was able to get THAT running!!  

Oh, yes, this model has an ash pan.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Mar 4, 2012)

Make sure the ash pan seals and latches are good.  If this allows entry into the fire box area it will set up an air bypass and can also cause a vacuum failure.


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## DexterDay (Mar 4, 2012)

Good job on buying a cleaning kit. You can just buy a pellet vent brush and enough rods, or there is a kit that many of us use here. Its called the "Lint-Eater". Its designed to clean dryer vents, but also shows a pellet stove on the back of the box (works great too). You may need to buy an extra rod or two, but its a dual purpose kit. I am going to use mine today. Very easy and comes with different accessories for cleaning the dryer out (I worry more about my dryer than my pellet stoves). 

Brushing the vent, scraping and cleaning the cap, then followed by the leafblower again (just to ensure it blows everything out) will give the stove a new set of lungs. 

Good luck, I got my fingers crossed for ya.


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## mkpanache (Mar 4, 2012)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

> Make sure the ash pan seals and latches are good.  If this allows entry into the fire box area it will set up an air bypass and can also cause a vacuum failure.



I will have him check that.  Thank you!


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## Xena (Mar 4, 2012)

mkpanache said:
			
		

> We are just letting it run, and while he
> is getting the chimney kit, I am opening and shutting the front door, going through the ash
> traps with the cordless drill, and *smacking the thing with the rubber mallet.*



I've never had much success with a rubber mallet.
Toss it for a small hammer.  It will leave nick marks
on the metal backwall but it won't break anything I
do it this way all the time and yes this ritual is required if
running dirty pellets. 
The rubber mallet doesn't offer enough blunt force imo
to loosen all the chit packed in up behind those ash traps.
Remove faux brick, hit back wall with hammer.  No hitting
the exterior of the stove. Only inside the firebox.  
Here's my usual stove cleaning arsenal.  I have a bigger hammer
that I will sometimes use if this one in the pic doesn't cut it
but for the task at hand a rubber mallet is useless imo.


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## mkpanache (Mar 4, 2012)

DexterDay said:
			
		

> Good job on buying a cleaning kit. You can just buy a pellet vent brush and enough rods, or there is a kit that many of us use here. Its called the "Lint-Eater". Its designed to clean dryer vents, but also shows a pellet stove on the back of the box (works great too). You may need to buy an extra rod or two, but its a dual purpose kit. I am going to use mine today. Very easy and comes with different accessories for cleaning the dryer out (I worry more about my dryer than my pellet stoves).
> 
> Brushing the vent, scraping and cleaning the cap, then followed by the leafblower again (just to ensure it blows everything out) will give the stove a new set of lungs.
> 
> Good luck, I got my fingers crossed for ya.



Well, just going up from the bottom, he got a ton of crap coming from the venting.  We have a friend coming over with a bucket truck in about a 1/2 hour, so that will make it much easier for him to get to the top.  I'm also going to check out the Lint Eater kit.

Thank you for your help.  Maybe by tonight, we'll be burning Okies!


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## The Other One (Mar 4, 2012)

I use a tent stake rubber mallet.  It works great.  I am a drummer, so I may have a little more strength in my wrist and proper technique, but it gets it all.  Snap your wrist.





I really hope all this effort solves your issue today.  I know we would all love to see some video of it working propoperly later today.


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## The Other One (Mar 4, 2012)

Xena said:
			
		

>



What's in the bottle?


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## Xena (Mar 4, 2012)

Hmm yeah maybe it's your technique and being
a drummer.   For me it takes less effort with
better results and no adverse affects so see no
harm in this method and I'm all for exerting less
energy whenever possible. lol.  

Been using a regular hammer for seven years now
on this stove.  I've run about fifteen diff brands
of pellets through it over the course of those
years and some of them were nasty crap and
believe me when I tell ya you would have had to
work far harder with the rubber thing.
 This stove has run 24/7 every heating season from
2005 to now.  I'm the only one who 
maintains it.   Flame is always correct and never
once had #2 blink so all this time have been doing
something right and again, never once needed the
leaf blower either.   

Rutland stove glass cleaner in the bottle.  

Anyway I hope you guys (the OP's) are able to
get it running better.


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## mkpanache (Mar 4, 2012)

Xena said:
			
		

> Hmm yeah maybe it's your technique and being
> a drummer.   For me it takes less effort with
> better results and no adverse affects so see no
> harm in this method and I'm all for exerting less
> ...



Xena, my husband came back from cleaning the cap, and you were right.  The stains were water/ mineral stains.  The installer put the cap on crooked, and my husband found a crack when he went to scrape it, so water has been leaking in for almost three years.  When he can get the correct heat sealant, he is going to reinstall the cap.

The stove is still not running.  We bypassed the vacuum switch and still have a lazy, orange flame.  

Xena, you have this same stove.  Is it the pellets?  Is it us?  Did we just get a bad stove?  I am ready to start crying.  Mark was ready to scale an icy roof to get to that cap.  I want to throw the thing in our driveway and kick it to the curb.


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## Xena (Mar 4, 2012)

I wouldn't risk an icy roof for this, it's not worth
getting injured over.  Seems like you guys have
been following all the advice from everyone
so either there is a solid chunk of crap somewhere
that's not moving, or it's something other than
a clog.  I'm running some really dirty pellets this
year and have had to get the junk out from behind
those traps and it has been packed in there good.
Then I have to snake the small diameter vac hose
in as far to the left and right of the traps as I can
reach and get the stuff out.  It has been a chore for sure
doing this about twice a month.  Also with these pellets
I get a good amount of buildup on the horizontal
part of the exhaust that goes from the stove to the T
and have had to clear that twice this winter so far.
So my experience has been that dirty pellets can
be the cause.  I'm a computer repair tech not a stove technician
so I can't say definitively what the issue is there
and from reading the manual I see that there can
be several things that can cause that #2 blink.


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## DexterDay (Mar 4, 2012)

Is the combustion blower running at full tilt??

If your still getting a lazy flame? Have you tried to open the damper? Even if it has to be opened all the way?? The manuak says a pencil width, yes. But every install is different. Every damper setting will vary.

If the stove is clean, vent is clean, cap is clean, and draft has been adjusted to no avail?  Then its possible the combustion blower is weak, failing, or not getting the proper voltage from the board??


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## mkpanache (Mar 4, 2012)

Xena said:
			
		

> I wouldn't risk an icy roof for this, it's not worth
> getting injured over.  Seems like you guys have
> been following all the advice from everyone
> so either there is a solid chunk of crap somewhere
> ...



Yes, we have been.  He is going in at those as traps right now with the drill and the vac, and then he is going to test the combustion motor.  

Motor tested. (I stepped away from the computer for a bit.)  It works fine.  In a way, I'm disappointed because it would have been an answer.


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## mkpanache (Mar 4, 2012)

DexterDay said:
			
		

> Is the combustion blower running at full tilt??
> 
> If your still getting a lazy flame? Have you tried to open the damper? Even if it has to be opened all the way?? The manuak says a pencil width, yes. But every install is different. Every damper setting will vary.
> 
> If the stove is clean, vent is clean, cap is clean, and draft has been adjusted to no avail?  Then its possible the combustion blower is weak, failing, or not getting the proper voltage from the board??



No, I don't think so.  I think we need a new blower. Mark took it out, tested it, and it ran, but he said it should be spinning easily with a couple of free pushes, and it isn't.  We are going to order a new combustion motor this week, and Mark is going to install it.  It only turns about 1/2 way with a push.   We are also going to order the fake bricks in case keeping those holes open is making a difference of any kind.

Anyway. I have GREAT NEWS  THE STOVE IS RUNNING

We think the clog was in or around the heat exchange tubes. (Who said this?????? That seems to have been IT!)  Mark took our air compressor, and he blew out everything around the tubes.  While he did that, I held the piping attached to the leaf blower that had been run outside, so it would suck the ash dust out of the house.  The amount of ash dust we blew out of there was unreal.  And we scrape the exchange tubes twice daily.  Now we need to get the Smartstat working, but Mark thinks that's a matter of reworking the wiring.

We are covered in ash dust, but we are warm and happy.  My two daughters and my son are all jumping up and down, saying, "The stove is running!  Daddy and Mommy DID IT!!"

I know I will be back with updates, but words cannot express how grateful I am to all of you (I am crying.)  Mark and I truly felt like we were not alone in this, and that you were all in this with us.  I just cannot cannot cannot thank you all enough.

And those Okies?  Hotter than Hades!!  :D


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## Xena (Mar 4, 2012)

Awwwwwesome news and great job you guys!  The Okanagans burn very clean and
def very hot.  They cook me out of here unless it's really cold out.


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## DexterDay (Mar 4, 2012)

The combustion blower on your unit may not have oil ports.. But I still oil where the bearings are on my stoves. There should be 2 bearings on your exhaust motor. The back one is normally the easiest to get to, but if you "drip" it just right, you can get the front one too..

That.motor should spin freely. Only spinning a 1/2 turn means something is not right. Either a bearing is going bad (doubt it) or it needs some lube (doubt it also). But it wont hurt to try. Use 3-n-1 oil in the.blue bottle (SAE 20).


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## mkpanache (Mar 4, 2012)

Xena said:
			
		

> Awwwwwesome news and great job you guys!  The Okanagans burn very clean and
> def very hot.  They cook me out of here unless it's really cold out.



Thank you!   And (I think) the Smartstat is fixed!  Fingers crossed.


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## mkpanache (Mar 4, 2012)

DexterDay said:
			
		

> The combustion blower on your unit may not have oil ports.. But I still oil where the bearings are on my stoves. There should be 2 bearings on your exhaust motor. The back one is normally the easiest to get to, but if you "drip" it just right, you can get the front one too..
> 
> That.motor should spin freely. Only spinning a 1/2 turn means something is not right. Either a bearing is going bad (doubt it) or it needs some lube (doubt it also). But it wont hurt to try. Use 3-n-1 oil in the.blue bottle (SAE 20).



I don't know if it has ports, but I know that before Mark put it back in, he oiled it.

Thank you for all of your help.  It's still running


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## Xena (Mar 4, 2012)

You should make it a practice of running it on 4 or 5 for at least a half hour a day.
It helps burn off any caked on crap that might otherwise build up.
Running on the # 1 setting even for just a day makes for
a really dirty burn even with good pellets.  You may or may not
already know this tip but lots of people who know it don't do it.

The blades on that blower get caked with stuff that may keep it
from spinning faster when you push by hand.  Removing it and
scraping the blades clean may or may not help with that.
I wouldn't just go and buy another blower without following the
electrical testing steps to see if it's putting out correctly.  I've
not replaced one but I know they aren't cheap.


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## The Other One (Mar 4, 2012)

I am glad it is running.  You have to really clean those heat exchange tubes often.  Whenever I notice ash build up on the baffle below them, I remove the baffle and really clean them well with a bottle brush and a paint brush.  If you do order a new motor, hold onto the old one.  Its nice to have a semi-working spare.  I am not sure if mine spins so freely or acts like yours.  The motor could be the issue for not being able to get enough flame.  It could also be not enough power coming from the control board (so the control board could be an issue).  You may want to see how things run for a few days before ordering a new motor.  All of the St. Croix parts are supposed to be sealed and not require oiling, but I have also never seen St. Croix suggest actually opening the combustion fan and cleaning it in any manual.  (I don't get that).  

By the way, I just saw that the service manuals are now posted on the St. Croix site.  (190 page one instead of 62).


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## Xena (Mar 4, 2012)

The Other One said:
			
		

> I just saw that the service manual are now posted on the St. Croix site.



I've had that PDF service manual for several years now so they
may have periodically had it for download off and on before. 
All St Croix owners who do their own maintenance should have a copy.


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## HopeItBurns (Mar 5, 2012)

YAY!


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## SmokeyTheBear (Mar 5, 2012)

Way back here in post #23 https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewreply/1127798/ a certain critter mentioned attacking those heat exchanger tubes.

Glad you got it clean again.


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## mkpanache (Mar 5, 2012)

Xena said:
			
		

> You should make it a practice of running it on 4 or 5 for at least a half hour a day.
> It helps burn off any caked on crap that might otherwise build up.
> Running on the # 1 setting even for just a day makes for
> a really dirty burn even with good pellets.  You may or may not
> ...



He runs it on 5 for an hour every day.  I asked him why he was doing that, and he said that it was to burn off crud in the stove.  I'm not sure if he checked the ohms on the blower, but I know he did on the vacuum switch.  I will tell him about scraping it.  Those blowers are around $200.

Thank you


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## SmokeyTheBear (Mar 5, 2012)

One other thing about those combustion blowers the cooling fans on some of them also get cruded up and really need to be cleaned as well.  Also the area between the mounting plate and the impeller gathers a good mess sometimes this works its way into the area between the shaft and the motor mount and causes a bit of a drag on things.

The last combustion blower tip is that sometimes the impeller is attached at the wrong spot on the shaft and thus doesn't produce its rated CFM flow rate.


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## DexterDay (Mar 5, 2012)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

> One other thing about those combustion blowers the cooling fans on some of them also get cruded up and really need to be cleaned as well.  Also the area between the mounting plate and the impeller gathers a good mess sometimes this works its way into the area between the shaft and the motor mount and causes a bit of a drag on things.
> 
> The last combustion blower tip is that sometimes the impeller is attached at the wrong spot on the shaft and thus doesn't produce its rated CFM flow rate.



Good point Smokey. Check and make sure that the impeller is not up against the back plate. (Also make sure if you pull it out, that it does not hit anything inside the combustion blower impeller cavity).

Mike Holton said that if the impeller is moved to the end of the shaft, that there is a gain in CFM. The closer it is to the back plate, the harder it is on the blower. 

Even if its just a few CFM's gained, its an improvement.


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## mkpanache (Mar 5, 2012)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

> Way back here in post #23 https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewreply/1127798/ a certain critter mentioned attacking those heat exchanger tubes.
> 
> Glad you got it clean again.



Hey  That certain critter was you :D Mark pulled that plate, but he didn't blow them with the compressor like we did today.  Even the LBT doesn't get out the ask that the compressor does.  Maybe if we use the LBT more frequently, we won't need the compressor.

Smartstat is not working.  Mark thinks he tore the wire pulling the stove off the hearth.


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## mkpanache (Mar 5, 2012)

DexterDay said:
			
		

> SmokeyTheBear said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I will pass this along to him.  Thank you both so much


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## The Other One (Mar 5, 2012)

mkpanache said:
			
		

> SmokeyTheBear said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



On my model, the thermostat wires connect to a jack on the back of the stove and then two wires from inside the stove that come from the control board connect to that jack.  The two wires from inside the stove tend to disconnect pretty easily on me when I am removing panels to get at things.  I am sure that you have a newer control board, so I can't help you with other wiring.  I actually have to move jumpers to change from smartstat to pilot mode.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Mar 5, 2012)

mkpanache said:
			
		

> SmokeyTheBear said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Having spent many decades trying to decipher the entrails of various systems I've learned to be patient and to go slowly to avoid causing problems for myself.

ETA: You don't want to be around when I do cause problems for myself, air gets blue,  etc ...


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## mkpanache (Mar 5, 2012)

The Other One said:
			
		

> I am glad it is running.  You have to really clean those heat exchange tubes often.  Whenever I notice ash build up on the baffle below them, I remove the baffle and really clean them well with a bottle brush and a paint brush.  If you do order a new motor, hold onto the old one.  Its nice to have a semi-working spare.  I am not sure if mine spins so freely or acts like yours.  The motor could be the issue for not being able to get enough flame.  It could also be not enough power coming from the control board (so the control board could be an issue).  You may want to see how things run for a few days before ordering a new motor.  All of the St. Croix parts are supposed to be sealed and not require oiling, but I have also never seen St. Croix suggest actually opening the combustion fan and cleaning it in any manual.  (I don't get that).
> 
> By the way, I just saw that the service manuals are now posted on the St. Croix site.  (190 page one instead of 62).



We have always had to remove the combustion fan to get to one of the ash traps.  That was the only way we could clear it.  I don't know if Mark has even cleaned the fan; I would have to ask him.  We had the PDF on our old computer, and when we bought our new computer, we went to the link for the manual, and St. Croix was linking everything to installation manuals and nothing else.  I am going to check out the service manuals.  What I would love to see is a cross section of the stove of the left ash trap from the combustion blower to the front of the stove.  We have seen the tunnel going toward the right, but I would love to see the section on the left.  Maybe if we could visualize it, we could better clean it.  It seems each time we cleaned, we were also moving ash, and not just cleaning.


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## mkpanache (Mar 5, 2012)

The Other One said:
			
		

> mkpanache said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Mark is shopping with the kids, so I am going to show this to him when he gets home.  He hooked the thermostat up, so he will understand what you mean. The board is digital; that much I know.  And thank you for posting that manual; it was really helpful!


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## SmokeyTheBear (Mar 5, 2012)

mkpanache said:
			
		

> The Other One said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The just moving ash can be a problem, somewhere on here is a diagram of the air flow through a St. Croix stove and it points out the area that gives the most trouble.  Once you get this area clean you can keep it clean with a very strong shop vacuum by using it instead of a leaf blower, a leaf blower will usually just suck what ever is in there out if you leave it running long enough and go poking in all of the clean out ports and thump on the walls.

Most of us will say to do a normal clean out before using the blower.  Some stoves have a very simple air path and the blower alone will clean most of the ash in the system out (provided it isn't  in big sticky clumps).

When I use it on my stove my ash traps are empty afterwards.  Since I can see up into the heat exchanger area I always hit that with the scrapper, a vacuum nozzle, and a putty knife.   I can go quite awhile before I feel I need to remove my ash trap covers and attack things from that side.   If you watch the burn you can tell when it is getting to the time to clean a bit more.


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## Xena (Mar 5, 2012)

mkpanache said:
			
		

> Even the LBT doesn't get out the ask
> that the compressor does. Maybe if we use the LBT more frequently, we won't need the compressor.



You shouldn't *have* to use either of those to keep a stove running well.
Regular cleaning of the right places in the stove at the proper intervals works.
But the key lies in getting all of those places every time.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Mar 5, 2012)

Xena said:
			
		

> mkpanache said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



And to adjust the cleaning intervals to meet the ash output of the pellet you are burning.


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## mkpanache (Mar 5, 2012)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

> One other thing about those combustion blowers the cooling fans on some of them also get cruded up and really need to be cleaned as well.  Also the area between the mounting plate and the impeller gathers a good mess sometimes this works its way into the area between the shaft and the motor mount and causes a bit of a drag on things.
> 
> The last combustion blower tip is that sometimes the impeller is attached at the wrong spot on the shaft and thus doesn't produce its rated CFM flow rate.



Just talked to Mark; he's home.  He had cleaned the blower (I didn't know that he had), and everything had been attached correctly.  He still thinks the blower might going.


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## mkpanache (Mar 5, 2012)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

> Xena said:
> 
> 
> 
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Then it had to be the pellets (I am guessing).  We were doing daily vacs with the metal vacuum.  We were shutting it down weekly.  We were doing a major cleaning monthly.  We were still getting the vacuum error.  I am hoping that the change in pellets will make a difference.  Already we have noticed a difference in ash output in the front of the stove.


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## DexterDay (Mar 5, 2012)

How is the flame now??

How far opened is the draft?


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## Xena (Mar 5, 2012)

I'm sure the Okanagans are going to give an entirely different experience.
With these Greene Team pellets I have, if I didn't do a major cleanout
twice a month I'd probably get that #2 error.    They burn hot though
so I deal w it.  Anyway I'm so glad you and the fam are warm again.
You're probably going to enjoy the stove much more than you ever have.
Hopefully you can find some decent pellets closer than 40 miles away.
That's too far to shlep all the time.   The good people on the forum might be able
to offer up some places for you to check on.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Mar 5, 2012)

Pay attention to the combustion blower every time you start the stove, you should be able to tell if it is hesitating in reaching speed.    If the area where the combustion blower is is getting quite warm you may have to lube that blower a bit more due to increased evaporation.   If the blower motor oil ports are facing down instead of up it might pay to change that situation.

You can always hedge your bets by having a spare on hand.

Having said that, the usual culprit is still ash in the works.

How did the flexible flue cleaning go?


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## Xena (Mar 5, 2012)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

> If the blower motor oil ports are facing
> down instead of up.....


  No blower motor oil ports on these


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## SmokeyTheBear (Mar 5, 2012)

Xena said:
			
		

> SmokeyTheBear said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Then they certainly aren't facing down ;-) .


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## mkpanache (Mar 5, 2012)

DexterDay said:
			
		

> How is the flame now??
> 
> How far opened is the draft?



Flame looks like a spread yellow fan with sharp pointy tips.  Damper is open about a pencil width...Mark's pinky finger.  Those Okies are hot, and there is no build up on the glass.  Even on 2 or 3.  Are we doing something right?


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## mkpanache (Mar 5, 2012)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

> Pay attention to the combustion blower every time you start the stove, you should be able to tell if it is hesitating in reaching speed.    If the area where the combustion blower is is getting quite warm you may have to lube that blower a bit more due to increased evaporation.   If the blower motor oil ports are facing down instead of up it might pay to change that situation.
> 
> You can always hedge your bets by having a spare on hand.
> 
> ...



I don't think there are any ports.  I think he just rubbed a bit of oil into it.  And yeah, he really thinks it was the ask in the exchange tubes.  He also ordered the fake bricks today.  Why NOT block up those holes?  What do we have to lose?  And the bricks are not made out of that crumbly material anymore; they're metal, so they will last longer.

You would not BELIEVE the crap that came out of the chimney  First, he went into it from below.  He crawled into the back of the fireplace and ran the flexible pole up the vent as far as it would go.  We didn't have enough to make it to the top, so a DJ friend who owns a bucket truck came over and lifted mark to the top of the cap where he was able to scrape the cap, see that it was crooked and cracked, and clean the rest of the venting.  So much junk came out of there, but when we turned the stove back on, it still wouldn't run.

Then Mark attacked the exchange tubes with the air compressor, and I sucked the ash in the air with the flexible pipe hooked up to the LBT hooked up outside.  After air compressing that stove one last time, it worked.  What a day!  And we have you all to thank!  I really think we would have given up if we didn't have this place to log on to and check in for support.  Seriously.

ETA:  ASH - not ask.  Sigh.


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## mkpanache (Mar 5, 2012)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

> Xena said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



LOL!


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## SmokeyTheBear (Mar 5, 2012)

Things can certainly get crud by the boatload in them.

Not quite as bad as opening up a combustion blower and finding nesting material along with animal parts.

It is also good to have these nice long threads so others get the information and aren't surprised when they have basically the same issue.

Enjoy the heat and once again a clean stove is a happy, safe, and warm stove.


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## Xena (Mar 5, 2012)

mkpanache said:
			
		

> Flame looks like a spread yellow fan with sharp pointy tips.
> Damper is open about a pencil width...Mark's pinky finger.
> Those Okies are hot, and there is no build up on the glass.
> Even on 2 or 3.  Are we doing something right?



Sounds exactly how mine is running right now also on
a bag of Okanagan.   I can see the big smiles on your
kids faces from here.  Good work Mom and Dad getting
that thing cleaned up!


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## The Other One (Mar 6, 2012)

mkpanache said:
			
		

> Flame looks like a spread yellow fan with sharp pointy tips.  Damper is open about a pencil width...Mark's pinky finger.  Those Okies are hot, and there is no build up on the glass.  Even on 2 or 3.  Are we doing something right?



Congratulations! St. Croix Video of Proper Flame

Now I bet you two can fix anything on the stove!


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## mkpanache (Mar 7, 2012)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

> Things can certainly get crud by the boatload in them.
> 
> *Not quite as bad as opening up a combustion blower and finding nesting material along with animal parts.*
> 
> ...



I take it this was your experience???  Yikes!

Stove is still running!!  Yay  You all ROCK


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## mkpanache (Mar 7, 2012)

Xena said:
			
		

> mkpanache said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



BIG MASSIVE SMILES  :D


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## mkpanache (Mar 7, 2012)

The Other One said:
			
		

> mkpanache said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes, that is excatly what the flame looks like!  We are SO psyched!


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## jtakeman (Mar 7, 2012)

Nice job getting it going! and Good work gang steering them in the right direction! I agree they do ROCK! ;-)


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## SmokeyTheBear (Mar 7, 2012)

mkpanache said:
			
		

> SmokeyTheBear said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No, that was the experience shared by several people that had issues getting their stoves going.

I am afraid I'm an ordained minister of the Church of the Clean Pellet Stove, some times we get told where to put our suggestion on cleaning, but that's alright.   We just call'em as we see'em ;-).

Like others on here I sometimes get called a code cop, but really I don't want to see or hear of fried or gassed folks.

I took advantage of today's temperatures to shut down and practiced some of what I preach, next week it will likely be a major cleaning.

As for rocking a few of us do that, that's what a lot of us geezers do.   I'm waiting for outside rocking weather.


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## DexterDay (Mar 8, 2012)

Glad its still working good for ya. Keep on top of the cleaning (w/ Okies you will notice a reduction in Ash and possibly longer cleaning intervals as a result). 

There are a bunch of fine folks here willing to help. Keep it clean and keep in touch.


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## mkpanache (Nov 6, 2012)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> I burned some stuff early on that required the burn pot to be dumped at least twice a day.
> 
> Thankfully, between changes to my stove and to the pellets things are a lot better these days.
> 
> ...


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## mkpanache (Nov 6, 2012)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> I burned some stuff early on that required the burn pot to be dumped at least twice a day.
> 
> Thankfully, between changes to my stove and to the pellets things are a lot better these days.
> 
> ...


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## mkpanache (Nov 6, 2012)

Well I have expierenced my 3 and last cresol fire with this St. Croix. I'm done and I think I am going to go and see if I can get any satisfaction from the dealer and or the company. Does anyone know if the Pescott EXP has expeirenced any redesign updates?? If so when.

Thx
Mark


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