# Advice on Gasser or Combo



## Pologuy9906 (Aug 19, 2013)

Hi all,

Im looking for a unit to replace my old boiler. I have about 27-2800 sqft to heat. I have baseboard. My basement is currently unfinished and I would love to heat it as well. Its roughly 1200 sqft. I have well water too.


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## CTFIRE (Aug 19, 2013)

Pologuy9906 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Im looking for a unit to replace my old boiler. I have about 27-2800 sqft to heat. I have baseboard. My basement is currently unfinished and I would love to heat it as well. Its roughly 1200 sqft. I have well water too.
> 
> ...


 
Welcome to the forums. You will get lots of varying opinions. I have a Woodgun. They are manufactured in PA. I have baseboards and went with a model that has an automatic oil back up. What part of CT?


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## Pologuy9906 (Aug 19, 2013)

Weston


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## Pologuy9906 (Aug 19, 2013)

Do you like the performance of the unit so far? I liked the Vedolux and the Effecta. The price on these units are killers. I guess the alternative of $3000+ a season on oil isnt an option either. I have 6 cords of dried oak, maple and some unknown seasoned for about 1.5years. Hopefully I could narrow down my choices and go from there. I like the garn junior. Its too big to fit into my basement.


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## mikefrommaine (Aug 19, 2013)

Do you have another flue available?

If so many have found it cheaper and easier to leave the existing oil boiler as back up to a gasser.


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## CTFIRE (Aug 19, 2013)

Well you need to start with access to wood. Do you have a supply c/s/s yet? What's your time frame? I have 3000 sf and I used the domestic coil for hot water. This was my first year, so I very green. I haven't hooked my oil back up yet, but I know some guys keep the oil furance they have as a back up. Other guys on the site use different gassers and need storage(1000 threads debating this topic). I suggest you go through all the old threads and pick up as much knowledge as possible. The site is tremendously helpful on trouble shooting, answering questions, etc. Asking for an opinion on what you should do is difficult to answer. I am in Trumbull. PM me and you can check mine out once you get closer to figuring out what you want.


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## CTFIRE (Aug 19, 2013)

Pologuy9906 said:


> Do you like the performance of the unit so far? I liked the Vedolux and the Effecta. The price on these units are killers. I guess the alternative of $3000+ a season on oil isnt an option either. I have 6 cords of dried oak, maple and some unknown seasoned for about 1.5years. Hopefully I could narrow down my choices and go from there. I like the garn junior. Its too big to fit into my basement.


 
I forgot the chimney issue. Is your's rated for all fuel? do you have a liner? Are you going to install yourself? Access to the basement? Do you research with town hall. You may have to educate the building inspector. Some get gassification mixed up with outdoor wood boilers. Mine was almost 1800lbs. Needed a excavator to lower into the blico door.


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## Pologuy9906 (Aug 19, 2013)

I do have access to green wood for free. How many cords did you burn? I want to get this done before the season starts. I hear design is more important than anything else. Not many gassers around the Ct area. Hard to find a good design person.


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## Pologuy9906 (Aug 19, 2013)

Mike I took a picture of the unit. I have two cleanouts but dont know if its 2 seperate flues. How do I check?


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## mikefrommaine (Aug 19, 2013)

Pologuy9906 said:


> Mike I took a picture of the unit. I have two cleanouts but dont know if its 2 seperate flues. How do I check?


Two clean outs means you should have two flues. But I don't see another thimble in the pics. Do  you have a woodstove hookup on the main floor?


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## Pologuy9906 (Aug 19, 2013)

the second picture has the two black boxes which are the cleanouts. I have a fireplace on the first floor.


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## CTFIRE (Aug 19, 2013)

Pologuy9906 said:


> I do have access to green wood for free. How many cords did you burn? I want to get this done before the season starts. I hear design is more important than anything else. Not many gassers around the Ct area. Hard to find a good design person.


 I know of a few gassers in CT, but most guys are do it yourselfers. I didn't keep track of how many cords I burned last year. I plan to this year. I have 16 c/s/s.  Not sure but your timeline might be tight on burning this year


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## mikefrommaine (Aug 19, 2013)

Pologuy9906 said:


> the second picture has the two black boxes which are the cleanouts. I have a fireplace on the first floor.


That does limit your options a little.  You could have the oil burner put on a direct vent, install a class a chimney. Or like you said look for a combo unit.

Possibly you could have a mason brick up the fire place and set up the second flue to be used in the basement. Depending how the chimney was made it might not be an expensive project.


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## nrcrash (Aug 19, 2013)

Pologuy9906 said:


> the second picture has the two black boxes which are the cleanouts. I have a fireplace on the first floor.


I ran into the same problem with my installation.  I had to vent my oil boiler with a direct vent and then tied the wood boiler into the existing flue.  I know the direct vent is not ideal but honestly it only runs when I turn it on periodically.  

I like keeping my oil boiler in place for resale value as well as true backup if something went wrong withy wood boiler.  If you are going to install the unit yourself, I cannot stress how important it is to purchase your boiler from a good dealer.  During my install my dealer was answering his phone on a Sunday night to go over the electrical schematics.  There is know way that's install would have come out 1/2 as good if I did not have them to assist with my install.


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## Pologuy9906 (Aug 19, 2013)

who did you use and what do yo have? How many cords are you burning a year? Whats the size of the home you are heating? I know I spoke with Bryan about the Effecta and he was saying I would possibly burn 5-6 cords with the 900-1000 gallons of water storage. I dont want to do the propane tanks. I want the simple boxes that look like the units themselves. I know vedolux and effecta have them. Im not sure of any others. Do any of you find it dangerous or smoky not having the fans that suck the smoke out when you open the door?


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## nrcrash (Aug 19, 2013)

I have a Vigas 40 purchased from AHONA with 1000 gallons of storage with a propane tank i rigged up myself.  I would have liked to have used the " simple boxes" but I was over budget as it was.  You should be able to get them from most dealers, not just vedolux or effecta (although they might have color coordinated ones that look sharp).  I have 3500+ sq/ft and probably used about 7 cord last year.  Kinda hard for me to guess since most of what I burned was scrap 2x stock from homes I was building.  

I only have had issues with smoke coming out of my unit while I was just beginning to use my unit and I was opening it during the burn when I should not have been or if my wood was to wet and I was getting bridging (both issues where my own fault and not the boilers).  With the storage I can just load and go and not have to worry about reloading it and dealing with smoke issues.


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## Pologuy9906 (Aug 19, 2013)

are the Vigas and Viadrus' price point the same as Vedolux at 11k or Effecta at 8k? Are they tanks? I want something built to last. I do like the idea of the cast iron on the Viadrus. Its tough making a selection.


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## Pologuy9906 (Aug 19, 2013)

I dont care about the boxes looking nice i just don't have the room for the tanks. I will be building out the basement for my mother in law. So Im looking for a setup I can put side by side. Thanks so far for the info!!


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## nrcrash (Aug 19, 2013)

Pologuy9906 said:


> are the Vigas and Viadrus' price point the same as Vedolux at 11k or Effecta at 8k? Are they tanks? I want something built to last. I do like the idea of the cast iron on the Viadrus. Its tough making a selection.



I am not familiar with the Viadrus boilers they are carrying.  I am very happy with the build of my boiler.  If your welcome to come take a look at it if your ever in southern ma.  Would give me an good excuse to fire her up

I would call mark at AHONA to inquire about the Viadrus.  He is very helpful and does not pressure u into buying anything.  I thought they where carrying that line for the non-gasification boiler as well as the pellet boilers, but I could be mistaken.


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## __dan (Aug 19, 2013)

Pologuy9906 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Im looking for a unit to replace my old boiler. I have about 27-2800 sqft to heat. I have baseboard. My basement is currently unfinished and I would love to heat it as well. Its roughly 1200 sqft. I have well water too.
> 
> ...


 
You have a standard application and should have a standard solution.

Don't quote me, but my understanding at this time from reading is, a cordwood gasser does not qualify as a primary central heat system, probably because of the manual fuel feeding. This means you would still need the oil burner in parallel, which adds a layer of cost and complexity to tie both boilers together and run in auto.

This is where the pellet boiler is going to be a standard solution for your application. The pellet boiler can qualify as primary central heat, so a straight yank and toss of the oil boiler for a pellet boiler would be one way to go. You would also yank and toss the electric DHW for indirect boiler fired DWH. That electric DHW can be another ~ $60. monthly per person in electric.

Making DHW in the summer, the auto run and efficiency of the pellet boiler will be a lot more. In the seasonal mild demand days, pellet boiler with modulating fire and outdoor reset wins again. In the winter with high demand, feeding the gasser with storage will do the job.

I have not priced it both ways, but I'm thinking the installed cost for a gasser with storage and controls for OA reset, auto run operation, is going to be in the same range or more than the highest quality pellet boiler with OA reset, auto operation, indirect DHW, and no oil boiler.

The tradeoff is how much you want the thing to run auto unattended or how much you want to make your own fires.


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## nrcrash (Aug 19, 2013)

Pologuy9906 said:


> are the Vigas and Viadrus' price point the same as Vedolux at 11k or Effecta at 8k? Are they tanks? I want something built to last. I do like the idea of the cast iron on the Viadrus. Its tough making a selection.


The Vigas was less expensive than the effecta by quite a bit and still had the lambda controls. I am not sure of the exact price but I think it was $500-$1000 less


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## Pologuy9906 (Aug 19, 2013)

my issue is paying for pellet vs free wood. Both options cheaper than oil. I believe pellets are 250 a pallet or so. Dont know how many pallets I would use. My family likes the house at 70-72 which i feel is extremely warm. 2 children and 2 adults. I do like the idea of pellets. Im trying to get away from paying for heat. All the options i seem to come up with are:
1. Vedolux but expensive. Side by side storage
2. Effecta - More reasonably priced and side by side storage
3. Benjamin combo unit - 7k range
4. Attack DP - dont see water storage side by side
5. Biomass dual fuel oil/wood boiler
6. Garn - My dream 
7. Vigas. 

As you can see i have a serious dilema


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## Pologuy9906 (Aug 19, 2013)

Great to hear. I will look at the build and quality of each. Thats my concern. I want something thats a tank. I need something easy to operate as well. It needs to be easy enough for a 14 year old to handle. 

Hopefully the Vigas is a better built unit!


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## mikefrommaine (Aug 19, 2013)

You can use any of the purpose built tanks with any of the boilers, color won't match but the water doesn't care.

New horizons does or did have a 500 gallon insulated tank, pricey but plug and play.


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## mikefrommaine (Aug 19, 2013)

Don't forget to add the Varm's to your list of potential boilers.

http://www.smokelessheat.com/


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## Pologuy9906 (Aug 19, 2013)

how much storage do I honestly need?


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## Pologuy9906 (Aug 19, 2013)

I'm looking for advice to narrowing the list down, LMAO! I honestly want to make a choice by mid September. Unit in place by October ready for the New England cold.


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## mikefrommaine (Aug 19, 2013)

500 - 1000 is the norm. I have a 1000 gallons for a 60kw boiler. Works great.


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## henfruit (Aug 19, 2013)

Vedolux and Varm are the same.


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## henfruit (Aug 19, 2013)

A 40 kw boiler and 1000 gallons would be a good match for your size home.


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## nrcrash (Aug 19, 2013)

Pologuy9906 said:


> Great to hear. I will look at the build and quality of each. Thats my concern. I want something thats a tank. I need something easy to operate as well. It needs to be easy enough for a 14 year old to handle.
> 
> Hopefully the Vigas is a better built unit!


I wanted something easy to operate as well so my wife could run it when I was away.  That's why I opted for a unit with the lambda controls.  Load and go!  No "fine tuning" the dampers


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## Pologuy9906 (Aug 19, 2013)

From what crash stated, Vigas was less than Effecta by 500-1000 and effecta is less than Vedolux. From what I gathered Effecta has 70% market share in sweden. I got that from Hans at Effecta. Great guy and wasnt trying to sell me at all. Just giving me useful info. 

Vedolux looks to be a VERY solid machine. If the Vigas can stand up to it, I may have cut my choices down. We'll see! Having the Lambda sensor appears to a great addition that only increases effeciency. I also like the fact the storage can be added at any given time.


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## mikefrommaine (Aug 19, 2013)

Pologuy9906 said:


> I'm looking for advice to narrowing the list down, LMAO! I honestly want to make a choice by mid September. Unit in place by October ready for the New England cold.


Well in that case have you seen the Froling?

http://www.woodboilers.com/

Sounds like you like the idea of a lambda boiler.  I think every lambda boiler 'requires' storage.  If you don't have a second flue option; I'm not sure I've seen any dual fuel units that have lambda controls...


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## Pologuy9906 (Aug 20, 2013)

I'll be heading to Ahona within the next two weeks to check out Marks setup.


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## hobbyheater (Aug 20, 2013)

Pologuy9906 said:


> I'll be heading to Ahona within the next two weeks to check out Marks setup.


 




One of the features that I like about the Vigas is the refractory nozzle.  It appears to be fairly easy to change and if need be, to make yourself.  Some where down the road refractory repair will be needed! I have been operating the same gasification boiler for 30+ years and the nozzle  is considered to be a replaceable maintenance item; a nozzle that is easy to make and replace.


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## mikefrommaine (Aug 20, 2013)

Good  idea to check out in person any boilers you are interested in.  Just remember fancy sheetmetal can hide a lot of sub par and shoddy workmanship of the pressure vessel.

I remember a few threads showing boilers with the skins off.  Definitely a quality difference.

When you do the tours ask to see a panel or two taken off.


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## Pologuy9906 (Aug 20, 2013)

great advice. Ill try to find the thread showing the panels off. I wish there was an independent third party who was not paid by any of the companies to rate them. I think the cast iron of the Viadrus is great. Cast iron has been around for quite some time. Mark seems to be a pretty upfront no frills kind of guy. A throw back. he was very honest stating some of my choices are good selections and some are not. He stated he will show me why he believes his is a great unit that should be considered. The assistance with the install if i needed him means the world!


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## nrcrash (Aug 20, 2013)

Pologuy9906 said:


> The assistance with the install if i needed him means the world!


   talk about an UNDERSTATEMENT


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## JP11 (Aug 21, 2013)

Pologuy9906 said:


> great advice. Ill try to find the thread showing the panels off. I wish there was an independent third party who was not paid by any of the companies to rate them. I think the cast iron of the Viadrus is great. Cast iron has been around for quite some time. Mark seems to be a pretty upfront no frills kind of guy. A throw back. he was very honest stating some of my choices are good selections and some are not. He stated he will show me why he believes his is a great unit that should be considered. The assistance with the install if i needed him means the world!


 
Absolutely my take as well.  I can't say enough good things about Mark.  Never had him take long to get back to me.  I think I talked to him at the fair for 2 years before I bought.  He's a wealth of knowledge and he's a gentleman.  He is very good about coming up with solutions.. he can shift gears in a minute if you are looking for cheap, high tech, redundancy, or scrounged.  For sure worth the time to go to his shop. I've never been there but would love to see the place.

JP


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## Fred61 (Aug 21, 2013)

JP11 said:


> Absolutely my take as well. I can't say enough good things about Mark. Never had him take long to get back to me. I think I talked to him at the fair for 2 years before I bought. He's a wealth of knowledge and he's a gentleman. He is very good about coming up with solutions.. he can shift gears in a minute if you are looking for cheap, high tech, redundancy, or scrounged. For sure worth the time to go to his shop. I've never been there but would love to see the place.
> 
> JP


 Spent some time in Central NY State last week. Jumped in the jeep one morning and visited the Baseball Hall of Fame in Cooperstown. On the way back I wanted to bring my wife over to see Mark's building since I've been telling her that I want one just like it but we had left the dogs in the RV and decided we had been gone too long so we skipped the visit.


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## henfruit (Aug 21, 2013)

Fred you missed a good take. J P you can fly  to him and land on his grass strip out back. He will show you the Vigas that they cut in half at the factory and sent over to him.(it will be at Fryeburg this year) no need to remove panels to see the guts of this boiler.


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## nrcrash (Aug 21, 2013)

mikefrommaine said:


> Good  idea to check out in person any boilers you are interested in.  Just remember fancy sheetmetal can hide a lot of sub par and shoddy workmanship of the pressure vessel.
> 
> I remember a few threads showing boilers with the skins off.  Definitely a quality difference.
> 
> When you do the tours ask to see a panel or two taken off.



Mike makes a good point.  

You want to make sure when they take off the panels you want to take a look at everything.  The welds, the craftsmanship of the build even the fan.  There have been some boilers known for there fans falling apart during use.  You want to make sure your new boiler will give you years of reliable use.


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## Pologuy9906 (Aug 22, 2013)

Which units have a history of faulty mechanisms


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## Pologuy9906 (Aug 22, 2013)

Which work best without storage? I want to add storage next season.
1. Vedolux 
2. Vigas
3. Attack

Any other brands are welcomed


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## flyingcow (Aug 22, 2013)

Tarm, Lyme N.H.-I believe  they have a show room on site.  I have an Innova not Lambda control, but very efficient and simple to run. Has a neg draft, no need for smoke hood. Tarm has good customer service.


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## Coal Reaper (Aug 22, 2013)

Vedolux requires storage. No way around it as this unit does not idle. That is efficiency!  Also negative daft as well as a bypass damper built in so no worry of any smoke when door open.


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## Coal Reaper (Aug 22, 2013)

Check out youtube also. Dean has got some videos of firing up and running the units he sells. Idk if he received any more nonlambda units in yet. I got the last one he had at the time and he wasnt sure when he was gonna get more.


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## mikefrommaine (Aug 22, 2013)

henfruit said:


> Fred you missed a good take. J P you can fly to him and land on his grass strip out back. He will show you the Vigas that they cut in half at the factory and sent over to him.(it will be at Fryeburg this year) no need to remove panels to see the guts of this boiler.


Post some pics, that would be interesting to see.

But regardless of brand I'd still suggest a close examination of THE unit you choose not a one off demonstration boiler.


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## Pologuy9906 (Aug 22, 2013)

The hard part about purchasing a unit is sifting through the BS. Unfortunately these are not mainstream so you dont have many users of each different brands. What tends to happen is one guy talks his brand up on how its the greatest since sliced bread. Then you talk to someone else and there;s is the best since sliced bread. There has to be a way or a ranking system that supplies which units are ranked higher and the reason why. With any product you will ALWAYS have copy cats who simply add no value! Ive come across a few in the gassification market as well. It appears pricing is all over the map as well. I dont think people mind paying a premium if they actually could differentiate why the premium is in place rather than a statement like............"Our units are the best in Europe. Company X and Y copied our design. You have to navigate hearth with caution. Whose being paid for good reviews and who tells it like it is. This is my Jerry Maguire moment.

Why Mark is in the lead in my book. Upfront and never tried selling me a thing. Told me to come with my brother who is also looking to purchase a unit, for a lesson. Not a sale but a lesson.


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## flyingcow (Aug 23, 2013)

You asked for our advice and experience, that's what you're getting IMO. Don't see a whole lot of BS. Just our experience, which you do have to take with a grain of salt. But very little. Where you are, the majority of us have been there.

    There is no Consumer Reports article on gasser's. When I first got on with Hearth, it was a bit overwhelming on the choices. But these guys here helped me a lot. With the fact of so many choices, I went with a brand thats been here a long time and has good customer service, etc. It was also a brand that my installer recognized and has had good dealings with. With that said, Tarm was on the high end of the pricing range.But it's worked well and simply. Thats my experience. They're not that far from you. (Of course everythings relative, i travel for an hour and 15 minutes @75mph just to get to a mall.)

With that said, last year i met Mark(AHONA) at a trade fair in Portland Maine. I thought the Vigas was a solid unit. And i really think you'll be happy with Mark and his passion for pleasing the customer with good products. Mark and his wife struck me as good people.

I also like the Garn, if you plan on stoarge.

FYI- This site provided me with this info. 1 cord of well seasoned(at least 1 yr of drying) wood will replace 150 gals of oil, once you get some experience with whatever you choose for a boiler, it will probably be closer to 175 gals of oil. When my wood is 18 months of seasoning i hit the 175 gal mark. Also, IMO, figure your wood at $175 a cord, even if you get it for free. Just makes it easier to budget, especially of you can't go cut the trees down yourself.

Good luck and cut/split/stack next(2014/15's) winters wood up now.


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## avc8130 (Aug 23, 2013)

Pologuy9906 said:


> The hard part about purchasing a unit is sifting through the BS. .


 

You better have a thick skin if you want to hang in the wood boiler world.

Ideally, if the following are true:
1. You can power vent your oil burner and have it meet code (distances to windows/doors, not dumping on a deck/patio, etc).
2. You don't mind losing a piece of your basement to 1000 gallons of water storage.

I would definitely go with a standalone wood boiler designed to operate WITH storage.

If NEITHER of those is true and you WANT a combination boiler and one that can be run without storage, you really only have one choice left and I'm not even going to bother to say it since Fred and Mike are already in here.

ac


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## __dan (Aug 23, 2013)

Pologuy9906 said:


> The hard part about purchasing a unit is sifting through the BS. Unfortunately these are not mainstream so you dont have many users of each different brands. What tends to happen is one guy talks his brand up on how its the greatest since sliced bread. Then you talk to someone else and there;s is the best since sliced bread. There has to be a way or a ranking system that supplies which units are ranked higher and the reason why. With any product you will ALWAYS have copy cats who simply add no value! Ive come across a few in the gassification market as well. It appears pricing is all over the map as well. I dont think people mind paying a premium if they actually could differentiate why the premium is in place rather than a statement like............"Our units are the best in Europe. Company X and Y copied our design. You have to navigate hearth with caution. Whose being paid for good reviews and who tells it like it is. This is my Jerry Maguire moment.
> 
> Why Mark is in the lead in my book. Upfront and never tried selling me a thing. Told me to come with my brother who is also looking to purchase a unit, for a lesson. Not a sale but a lesson.


 

It was reading the board here that sold me on the Froling. Mostly I read others experiences that I did not want to repeat myself. I also read for years.

One thing, A lot of the guys who are doing their own have unusual extensive technical experience, contractors, operating engineers, programmers, technical problem solvers. One of the things you have to ask yourself is how much do you want to attend to the unit daily or do you want something with the convenience of oil or gas. If the latter, the pellet boiler is the way to go. Honestly, I look at your standard situation and no house like yours should be built and sold today with oil heat. If gas is not available, they should be pellet boiler primary.

The other thing you have to ask yourself is not the upfront cost, you want to know what system is the lowest cost to operate and maintain at the ten and twenty year mark.

If you go cordwood gasser, you will absolutely need storage with the HW baseboard loads


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## hobbyheater (Aug 23, 2013)

Pologuy9906 said:


> I like the garn junior. Its too big to fit into my basement.


 
The Garn Junior has a lot to offer; efficiency, simplicity from a plumbing stand point, much simpler than adding storage to most boilers. The company has a good track record. Their units have been in operation since 1983! A person installs a Garn and you rarely see them on this site. Is there anyway a portion of a basement wall could be removed or single door be made into a double door, to allow the Junior into the basement? Pending on where you can locate the Junior, it can be direct vented through a wall to the outside; not requiring a chimney. The foot print of the Junior is going to be very small and likely no bigger than a boiler combination with 3 prebuilt storage tanks that will fit through a standard 36" door.
I myself went with 1,000 gallons of storage before gasification was heard of. Storage offers firing at your convenience and allows your boiler to run flat out, achieving a very high efficiency level. And on the subject of storage you can never have too much storage! Lots of luck you are facing a uphill grind.


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## Pologuy9906 (Aug 23, 2013)

I truly thank all the information given to me by the users on the site. Not having that technical background as others make the learning curve much more difficult. I width I could pull the gran in. That was first choice. My balco doors and entry door to the basement are not big enough. I'm surprised more havent made units that fit in a basement as narrow as 30". 

Its frightening when you see a unit for 5000 then one for 8000. You say to yourself is the 8000 unit hype or is the 3000 well worth it.


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## flyingcow (Aug 23, 2013)

Pologuy9906 said:


> I truly thank all the information given to me by the users on the site. Not having that technical background as others make the learning curve much more difficult. I width I could pull the gran in. That was first choice. My balco doors and entry door to the basement are not big enough. I'm surprised more havent made units that fit in a basement as narrow as 30".
> 
> Its frightening when you see a unit for 5000 then one for 8000. You say to yourself is the 8000 unit hype or is the 3000 well worth it.


 

Enjoy


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## hobbyheater (Aug 23, 2013)

Pologuy9906 said:


> Its frightening when you see a unit for 5000 then one for 8000. You say to yourself is the 8000 unit hype or is the 3000 well worth it.


 
The key to making an intelligent decision is research.  Tell the people on "HEARTH" exactly where you live and how far you are willing to travel in days.  If you are willing to do some travel to see some of these systems in operation, I'm sure some members will chime in with their location.  It seems to me that you have never heated with wood, let alone a wood fired boiler.  Seeing these systems in operation can go a long way in your education.
Other things to consider!  How long do you plan to live at your present location?  Is the capital investment worth it?  Can you do the installation yourself? Do you have access to firewood?  Do you have the tools, saws, hydraulic woodsplitter and a pickup?  Do you enjoy making and collecting firewood?  Do you have space on your property to store 10 to 16 cords of wood?  If your answer to many of these questions is "NO", find another source of heat!
On the price difference, boilers such as Garn and Tarm have  been long time quality maker of gasification boilers and you pay for that quality. The newer lambda control boilers are more high tech so they can think for you, therefore a higher price range.  In many situations, the price of the boiler only represents half of the cost of the installation once you add storage and all the components to make it work.  The most important thing is to have fun with your potential system!


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## Pologuy9906 (Aug 23, 2013)

I'm 38 and plan on dying here, well worth it oil bill 3000+ a year and that wasn't using my entire house, I have expert help if I get schematics, I have access to wood, I have all tools except a splitter at this time, I own a few vacate lots I'm currently storing wood at. I'm serious about this purchase and trying to do my due diligence to ensure I made the right decision. 

I live in Fairfield County in a 2700+ sqft home with a 1200 sqft basement. 4 zones adding a fifth(basement). Home built in 1986. Insulated with batts. Cedar clapboard siding.


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## hobbyheater (Aug 23, 2013)

You have said your door to the basement is not large enough for the Garn.  Have you explored the costs involved to temporally making the opening large enough?


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## Pologuy9906 (Aug 23, 2013)

Concrete foundation. I don't want to start screwing with my foundation.


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## hobbyheater (Aug 23, 2013)

Pologuy9906 said:


> Concrete foundation. I don't want to start screwing with my foundation.


 
That makes sense.  Again try and get to see some of these systems in operation.  It will help you in the decision.


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## hobbyheater (Aug 23, 2013)

If the door opening into your basement is only 30" wide, this narrow width may also narrow down some of your choices on boiler sizing and the types of storage that you will be able to use.


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## Pologuy9906 (Aug 23, 2013)

It's bigger. Lol


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## hobbyheater (Aug 23, 2013)

Pologuy9906 said:


> It's bigger. Lol


 
 Post a picture of the door!  Bilco or  Balco ?


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## Pologuy9906 (Aug 23, 2013)

Bilco door then an entry door


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## Pologuy9906 (Aug 23, 2013)

I have about 31-33" of clearance. I just measured it. I have the bilco door which is much wider.


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## __dan (Aug 23, 2013)

I'm getting the sense that you're all gung ho to burn wood, that's great. With an effiicient system, there's a tremendous quantity of heat in wood.

Try going through the motions mentally to see what equipment fits your lifestlyle. Determine the equipment footprint and tape off or chalk the floor. Figure how you're going to move cordwood from the outside to the boiler through the bilco door and stairs?. Try that a few times physically to see how it fits what you want to do. I load two 32 gallon Rubbermaid plastic trash barrels and walk them through an Andersen walkout double door, but will switch over to a Gorilla cart.

I'm gung ho for you to switch 100% over to wood, but I'm getting the sense that you may be busy, and the better system is probably one that saves you a lot of your own labor feeding and maintaining. You're also planning on making living and sleeping space in the basement ?

Do it by the numbers in planning and design.

That $3000 annually oil swags as 857 gallons #2 fuel or 5.7 cord. Do you want to invest that much of your own labor into moving five cord into your basement seasonally.

You should also target taking out the electric DHW tank. I would swag that costs $130 monthly for $1600 annual. $3000 + $1600 x ten years = $46,000. Really, imo, that's the upper limit of your budget, meaning, can you do better spending 40 grand over the next ten years. I'm thinking the top line system you would want is 25 to 30 grand, installed cost. So you can justify getting the best available. really, This would be a standard calculation fitting every similar home on your street and in the state, everyone can justify top of the line but the hurdle for most is financing the short term upfront cost.

Once you do the numbers and carry two barrels of cordwood down the stairs a few times, you should be all set to go for a 25K system. Not knowing anything of your specifics but knowing your typical application, you should be fully sold on a new Froling P4 pellet boiler or the Windhager.

There are advantages, the cleanliness and lower labor of prepared fuel, smaller footprint with no or small storage, excellent efficiency at seasonal part load or for summer DHW, easier install by tossing out the oil boiler and tank.

I'm not trying to stop you from a cordwod gasser, but it's a much bigger install with storage and keeping the old oil boiler as primary. Maybe you can put the gasser in the garage or add a workshop, man cave, outbuilding in the yard.

For cordwood gassers, add the Froling FG L to your list, cannot wait for winter to start burning.


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## Pologuy9906 (Aug 23, 2013)

I appreciate your advice Dan. I'm sold on cordwood. Pellets cost money and I don't mind the splitting, stacking and carrying wood. It's a nice workout! I actually like it. I honestly never looked at pellets


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## __dan (Aug 23, 2013)

Yep, pellets should be the go to solution for people on oil who don't have cordwood.

The Froling FG L is built to last. Over the life of the unit, it should be at or lower cost compared to your list. good luck.


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## stratton (Aug 24, 2013)

Pologuy,
i live in fairfield. Your welcome to check out my setup.
Its a DS aqua gem 3200 non gasser it works great for me.
give me a call LUKE 203-610-7667


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## muncybob (Aug 24, 2013)

Pologuy9906 said:


> Concrete foundation. I don't want to start screwing with my foundation.


This was the main determining factor when I purchased my boiler. The list narrowed down to 3 boilers due the the narrow entry into the basement. My boiler even got a bit scraped up when we lowered it in.
I think I can may be able  to get a 500 gal. tank in my basement when the time and budget allows and I have the ambition to remove an oil tank.


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## Woodstuck (Aug 24, 2013)

After just moving into a house that does not have access to natural gas I am sort of in this guys boat.  My original plan was to buy an eko 40 this past spring with 500 gal propane tank. Thinking about it long and hard and knowing that installs rarely go as smoothly as you would like them I decided on installing a woodstove now with a boiler in the near future.  This way you can take the time to have a good plan in place and not be in a rush.  I am an electrician in the automatic temperature controls business and deal with large boiler installs on a weekly basis and I honestly believe there is know way your going to get something installed before this heating season.  Every home and building is unique so the unit really should be sized and the system balanced properly to really get the efficiency out of the boiler.  Also as far as the door opening goes have you measured the rough opening if you remove the door frame.  This could buy you a couple more inches and would not be messing with your foundation.


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## Bad Wolf (Aug 24, 2013)

Polo, I have a similar set up with a 3000 ft2 house, I have a TARM Excel 2000 with 1200 gallons storage. The last couple of years I figure I burned about 7-8 cords, that's heating the house, all of my DHW and a hot tub. The TARM is a combo unit which is nice having the oil back up, but if I had it to do over I would go with two separate units.

I got my set up from Preston Trading post, but I'm sure there are other folks out there in CT.

If you give me a chance to clean up first, you can come over some time, (I'm in Colchester) and have a look at my setup. I installed everything my self and built my own storage tank.

I don't know if it sold, but there was a TARM solo with storage for sale on the forum in NY back around July 16th.


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## Fred61 (Aug 24, 2013)

Woodte.stuck said:


> After just moving into a house that does not have access to natural gas I am sort of in this guys boat. My original plan was to buy an eko 40 this past spring with 500 gal propane tank. Thinking about it long and hard and knowing that installs rarely go as smoothly as you would like them I decided on installing a woodstove now with a boiler in the near future. This way you can take the time to have a good plan in place and not be in a rush. I am an electrician in the automatic temperature controls business and deal with large boiler installs on a weekly basis and I honestly believe there is know way your going to get something installed before this heating season. Every home and building is unique so the unit really should be sized and the system balanced properly to really get the efficiency out of the boiler. Also as far as the door opening goes have you measured the rough opening if you remove the door frame. This could buy you a couple more inches and would not be messing with your foundation.


 I don't have the numbers to throw at you but based on my experience with my EKO 25 and 500 gallons of storage, 500 gallons seems a bit light for a 40Kw boiler. My house is very well insulated and tight and gets more efficient every year. It's a hobby! The 25 heats the 500 gallon vertical unpressurized tank to180 degrees in about  from 130 or so in about 3 to four hours. If your house is not super insulated the 500 gallons of storage will not be adequate. 500 gallons with a 40 Kw boiler is more of a buffer than storage.


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## hobbyheater (Aug 27, 2013)

http://www.americansolartechnics.com/products.html

This is a company that makes storage that will be easy to get into your basement. The boiler and zones run under pressure but storage is not.  Also your DHW is just a copper coil immersed in the tank.  This is a respected company on this site which would make sure the design of the storage would match your boiler and load.

In my boiler manual, there is a complete set of plans for building your own soft storage tank; construction, plumbing and electrical. These I could forward to you.


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## heaterman (Aug 27, 2013)

hobbyheater said:


> View attachment 109126
> 
> 
> One of the features that I like about the Vigas is the refractory nozzle. It appears to be fairly easy to change and if need be, to make yourself. Some where down the road refractory repair will be needed! I have been operating the same gasification boiler for 30+ years and the nozzle is considered to be a replaceable maintenance item; a nozzle that is easy to make and replace.


 

The Windhager LogWin that I saw in the lab in Austria had that same feature. Each piece of the refractory was individually replaceable. Wish I could get my hands on one of those....automatic lighting, automatic flue cleaning like their pellet boiler, lambda control, modulating burn rate, extremely heavy.....all the good stuff. It would probably be in the $8-10K range if they ever bring it over here.


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## hobbyheater (Aug 27, 2013)

heaterman said:


> The Windhager LogWin that I saw in the lab in Austria had that same feature. Each piece of the refractory was individually replaceable. Wish I could get my hands on one of those....automatic lighting, automatic flue cleaning like their pellet boiler, lambda control, modulating burn rate, extremely heavy.....all the good stuff. It would probably be in the $8-10K range if they ever bring it over here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
If you come into contact with more information on this boiler, please post.  Replaceable refractory sections is a very interesting  feature!


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## Dan Rondeau (Aug 30, 2013)

Brand New Econoburn Wood Boiler For Sale - Located in Putnam, CT

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/econoburn-150-brand-new.109661/


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## maple1 (Sep 7, 2013)

Pologuy9906 said:


> my issue is paying for pellet vs free wood. Both options cheaper than oil. I believe pellets are 250 a pallet or so. Dont know how many pallets I would use. My family likes the house at 70-72 which i feel is extremely warm. 2 children and 2 adults. I do like the idea of pellets. Im trying to get away from paying for heat. All the options i seem to come up with are:
> 1. Vedolux but expensive. Side by side storage
> 2. Effecta - More reasonably priced and side by side storage
> 3. Benjamin combo unit - 7k range
> ...


 

Benjamin?

Unless they've come out with something new & exciting very recently, I'd scratch that one off.

Also not sure about the prices/comments that have been bounced around for a new Varm (Vedolux) - from all my looking when I got mine, they weren't much more than the rest except maybe Eko. Unless comparing top of the line with not top of the line. Cost of storage has to be (or maybe I should say SHOULD BE) added to all boilers so that should be equal all across all of them.


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