# Freezing in the high desert!



## moonunit (Nov 24, 2008)

Dear Guys,
My fireplace was improperly built.  In any case, it´s better for the planet to go gas.  So, I have bought a nice ventless unit, but now need to block off the big hole leading to the shelf and flue.  And I would like to line the body of my existing fireplace so it will reflect more heat out into the room.  My question is:  what metal do I use?  I hope you don´t say "stainless steel" because my handyman tells me there is none for sale here in San Miguel de Allende, state of Guanajuato, Mexico.
A guy at the hardware store where I bought my unit suggested galvanized sheet metal.  This be ok?  My unit puts out 30,000 BTU´s .
Please help me out!  I´m freezing my none-too-young caboose!
Thanks very much in advance.  I´m most grateful.
Sandi


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## bokehman (Nov 24, 2008)

sandi said:
			
		

> In any case, it´s better for the planet to go gas.


How is adding fossil fuel to the carbon cycle "better for the planet"?


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## kenny chaos (Nov 24, 2008)

You should be in Oaxaca!  Galvanized is toxic when burned but in your case, I'll let someone else speak.


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## karri0n (Nov 24, 2008)

> bokehman said:
> 
> 
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> ...


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## Jerry_NJ (Nov 24, 2008)

karriOn

I agree, natural gas is one of the cleanest fuels we have, short of hydroelectric say.  Some of the wood burners on this forum think they are green because they are burning wood, never mind how many living trees they cut down and burn, trees that could be absorbing the low level of CO you gas unit puts out.  Save a tree or two and you are just as "green" if not more so.  

One nice thing about EPA certified stoves/inserts sold today in the US, they are relatively efficient and clean burning, compared to an open fireplace or an old pot-belly stove.


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## bokehman (Nov 24, 2008)

Jerry_NJ said:
			
		

> Some of the wood burners on this forum think they are green because they are burning wood, never mind how many living trees they cut down and burn, trees that could be absorbing the low level of CO you gas unit puts out.  Save a tree or two and you are just as "green" if not more so.


Gas left under ground means less in the carbon cycle. Once it's above ground and burnt it makes no difference whether it is temporarily locked up in the trunk of a tree or in the atmosphere. The important thing is that carbon that had been locked up for millions of years is added to the carbon cycle.


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## jtp10181 (Nov 25, 2008)

Sorry, don't know much about vent free since they are illegal to install in the state I live in.

So... you bought a vent free gas log set from the sounds of it? I would consult the installation manual for suggestions. I don't know if anyone on this forum has much experience with vent free gas units. We will see...


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## Jerry_NJ (Nov 25, 2008)

Wouldn't a vent free log set in a fireplace vent up the chimney?   I always assumed a vent free heater could/would sit in the middle of the room, or any other convenient place and vent into the room.  Much the same as a gas cook top in the kitchen that isn't under a venting hood.

As for green as it relates to carbon from the burning oil/gas verses from trees, trees that are cut down for firewood and are never replanted adds to the carbon in the air just as does burning oil/gas.  Further, it is the free carbon in the air that is of concern as far as global warming, carbon bound up in trees or under the ground is carbon not contributing to green house problem.


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## EatenByLimestone (Nov 25, 2008)

I'd skip the galvonized...  You shouldn't weld galv. metal for the same toxic gasses given off.

Matt


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## jtp10181 (Nov 25, 2008)

Jerry_NJ said:
			
		

> Wouldn't a vent free log set in a fireplace vent up the chimney?



Not if you install a block off plate as they are suggesting (the main question of their post).


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## madrone (Nov 25, 2008)

If I'm reading you right, galvanized is fine. The zinc in the coating doesn't burn off except under fairly high heat, higher than you're likely to see. It's very bad to breathe zinc fumes, which is the concern with welding, but it doesn't sound like you'll be welding it. Will it reflect heat? I'm not so sure. Maybe. The surface of galvanized metal goes dull over time, which is why stainless would be better, or aluminum.


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## bokehman (Nov 25, 2008)

Jerry_NJ said:
			
		

> As for green as it relates to carbon from the burning oil/gas verses from trees, trees that are cut down for firewood and are never replanted adds to the carbon in the air just as does burning oil/gas.  Further, it is the free carbon in the air that is of concern as far as global warming, carbon bound up in trees or under the ground is carbon not contributing to green house problem.


Forests burning and releasing CO2 to the atmosphere is a normal everyday event. It adds nothing to the carbon cycle. On the other hand, digging carbon out of the ground and releasing it into the atmosphere is not. Carbon offsetting and biofuels are just BS remedies for the damage oil cartels and car manufacturers are doing to the planet.

Avoided emissions (due to renewable energy projects) or reduced emissions (due to energy efficiency projects) are, in essence, permanent, because they prevent carbon from entering the carbon cycle in the first place. Keeping the carbon sequestered in the ground in form of coal, oil or gas is a much better solution than burning it and then later trying to sequester it with trees.


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## Jerry_NJ (Nov 25, 2008)

bokehman:  My point is most (I believe) wood that is burned for heating (and cooking) is not renewed, it is released into the atmosphere.  The place where the trees were growing is covered with houses/roads/parking-lots/deserts/ets.  Forests that burn, fast with fire or slow with falling to the ground, are renewed by new growth in the same area, some times.  I think the "green gang" push guilt on others using oil/gas too far in an effort to make themselves feel cleaner than the rest of the population - they are not.

For those who think we can stop the carbon economy anytime soon I say they understand neither economics nor emotions.  Climate change has gone on throughout time and will as time moves forward with or without the presence of man.

Now let's get with the development and implementation of cleaner burning, more efficient, including nuclear technology and expand/improve wind, hydro, solar, whatever, renewable sources of energy.  Putting a cap, better a declining cap, on the world's population would be a big help too.

jtp10181: sorry, overlooked the reason this thread was started, got lost in the side-track of who are the "good guys".


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## moonunit (Nov 26, 2008)

Okay!
For those of you who actually offered an opinion on what metal I could use, thank you.     I am hoping to get a few more responses of THAT kind.  For the rest of you, "Well, excussssssssssssssssssssssse me".  Which is not the same phrase I´d like to use, but I´ll leave it at that.  Nice Turkey Day to everyone!
Sandi


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## jeff6443 (Nov 26, 2008)

Jerry Jerry Jerry  I scroung all my wood and my tree service guy Al hooks me up . I cut no live trees .
 I walk my woods often I cut NO LIVE   NONE   NOTHING NADA . Bet I m  not alone


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## smokinj (Nov 26, 2008)

Dumbfishguy said:
			
		

> Jerry Jerry Jerry  I scroung all my wood and my tree service guy Al hooks me up . I cut no live trees .
> I walk my woods often I cut NO LIVE   NONE   NOTHING NADA . Bet I m  not alone


Dumbfishguy your not alone I get my wood just before its going to the landfill! or dead standing


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## moonunit (Nov 28, 2008)

Geez, thanks, fellows (I have to assume you are males......). 
Some of you have been just as helpful as titties on a bull.  If you want to discuss gas vs wood burning, or if you just want to vent your bile, do it at someone else´s expense.
sandi


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## kenny chaos (Nov 28, 2008)

C'mon now Sandi.  This isn't your first time on the net.  Spending time here is a whole lot bigger expense for some of us who try to help than it ever could be for the one asking for help.
I don't know what other answers you could get.
How about copper?  That's plentiful down your way but it is soft so I'd worry about it getting too hot.
Use the galvanized and paint it a nice shiny, reflective, color.

Are the Bills playing this weekend?


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## moonunit (Nov 28, 2008)

Hey, Rochester, those bulls know who they are.
You, on the other hand, offered useful information.  *And I greatly appreciate it*. Several others were very helpful as well.
Somedays I just don´t have as much patience for the dopes as other days.
You take care and keep your backside warm! :- )
Sandi


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## Jerry_NJ (Nov 28, 2008)

sandi,

you've got a long way to go, if you think everyone is going to stick strictly to your narrow goals you're not only new to this forum, you must be new to the Internet, speaking of "dopes"


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## kenny chaos (Nov 28, 2008)

Ya know Sandi, I was thinking about hitting Mexico this winter.  Maybe I could stop by and spend a couple months checking out you situation.  For a small fee of course.


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## Redox (Nov 29, 2008)

Jerry_NJ said:
			
		

> sandi,
> 
> you've got a long way to go, if you think everyone is going to stick strictly to your narrow goals you're not only new to this forum, you must be new to the Internet, speaking of "dopes"



Just my POV, but yes she does!  She started the thread and you self righteous types hijacked it.  Whack across the nose with a rolled up newspaper! :down: 

Play nice!

Chris


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