# Best ~ 70cc chainsaw. suggestion please



## snydley (May 3, 2008)

I have a P.O.S. 55 cc Craftsman chainsaw that's just not "cuttin' it". I want to replace it with a good pro saw. I started burning wood for my primary heat source since January, this year, and I'm going to be heating that way from now on, screw the oil companies with a sharp jagged pole!  :vampire: I've tried buying "seasoned" firewood by the face cord and have found that the firewood man's idea of seasoned, and mine are 2 different things. So I started scrounging firewood. I figured if I was gonna get green/slightly seasoned firewood from the firewood man, I might as well cut and split my own and then I know what I'm getting. I put an advertisement on our local library's web board, and craigslist and have scrounged between 8 - 10 face cords by answering the emails people have written to me, and have been working almost everyday cutting free wood. I swear there is so much wood locally that I could work 24/7 if I wanted to. Some of the trunks I've cut up on these "jobs" have been almost 36" in diameter, and it's really been a chore for the 18" Craftsman I have. I plan to do this every year, so long as the supply holds up. If/when it dries up then I'm going to start buying tri-axel log loads and cut and split them myself,(I also bought a Husky 22 Ton log splitter). :coolsmile: 
 So, to make a long story even longer, Now I want to retire the craftsman saw and buy a good pro saw. I've been looking at the Stihl MS 440 or 441 and 460, online. They seem to be almost the same saw, with the 460 being a little bigger. Which of these would you buy, and which would you stay away from? I also am considering Husqvarna, because we have a dealer locally that carries both Stihl and Husqvarna. Unfortunately I know less about the Husqvarna's than the Stihl's, which is next to nothing, that's why I'm posting this cry for help to you guys. I want to buy a saw that will last years, and one big enough that I won't have to upgrade to a bigger saw in a few years, hopefully never. My thought is a pro saw approx. 70cc or bigger, with a 20" bar and chain, and if it looks like I'm gonna need something bigger I'll buy a 25" or bigger bar and chain for the big stuff. What do you guys think? Can you offer me any suggestions?
Thanks,
Snyde


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## firebird400 (May 4, 2008)

hi synde  ihave a stihl ms440 20inch bar and its great love the saw  bought it used on ebay was like new got it for all most half of new


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## chad3 (May 4, 2008)

Pick up a Husky 372XP if you can find one.  Best saw out there in this range, I feel.  It is however a pretty heavy saw to be cutting with for an entire day.  I have a Stihl 361 (running a 20" bar) for most cutting and the 375 just comes out for the bigger wood (24" bar).   Then there is the 80 cc saw for the really big wood with the 28/32 bar.  I use the Solo, but really its only for really large wood which means it doesn't get used much.
You need to think about how much wood you cut in the 20"+ range as this is just about the only time you would need a saw of that size.
Just my .02
Chad


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## Sealcove (May 4, 2008)

In my opinion a 70+ CC saw is overkill for home use firewood cutting.  A Husky 357XP or Stihl MS 361 could each easily handle the task at hand with an 18 or 20" bar.  I have a 372XP, and I have never needed to use it for my wood pile even when I have 36" oak.  Just my two cents.


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## TMonter (May 4, 2008)

If you really need that big of saw the best three choices are:

Husky 372XP/XPW

Stihl MS440/441

Dolmar 7900

All three are great saws in that class and when taken care of all three should last at least 15 years if used primarily for woodcutting.



> In my opinion a 70+ CC saw is overkill for home use firewood cutting.



I think that depends on the type of firewood cutting done. I've found my 372 to be an excellent firewood saw but a bit on the heavy/large side for limbing and small work.


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## Sealcove (May 4, 2008)

> I think that depends on the type of firewood cutting done. I've found my 372 to be an excellent firewood saw but a bit on the heavy/large side for limbing and small work.



I don't disagree with that statement.  I have a 372XP, and it does a fine job as a firewood saw, but I have found it to be overkill for anything less than 36" oak.  If the majority of the wood is going to be over 24" then it probably is worth hefting the extra weight and power.  I would not bother if the majority of wood is smaller than 24".  Just my take.


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## loggie (May 4, 2008)

Everyone has a favorite brand of saw,I like stihls,I worked for a logger as a kid he swore by them.He said the huskys he tried didnt last and blew up.He ran 044s and 064s before the 66 came out.I have a 036 thats almost 20 years old cutting firewood and clearing land and working on my 40 acres its had alot of bars and chains on it and I have never had a problem with it ,I doubt there is a saw on the market that can beat that.I also have a 066 that is newer and after using it for a while I dont use the 036 for anything over 12" the 066 rips through in half the time it is heavy but it balances well with a 24" bar and I can cut the same wood in half the time with less effort.If my 036 blew up tomorrow I would replace it with a 440 or 460 I feel no need to experiment with other brands If there is a better saw on the market I dont need it.I do not care to struggle with small saws anymore,buy bigger you wont be sorry.


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## Sealcove (May 5, 2008)

The pro level saws by Husky or Stihl are pretty much of equal quality.  If you get either you will be happy.


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## snydley (May 5, 2008)

Sealcove said:
			
		

> In my opinion a 70+ CC saw is overkill for home use firewood cutting.  A Husky 357XP or Stihl MS 361 could each easily handle the task at hand with an 18 or 20" bar.  I have a 372XP, and I have never needed to use it for my wood pile even when I have 36" oak.  Just my two cents.


What I need this saw for is cutting large trunks of felled trees. I started scrounging downed trees, etc. around my area, and there seems to be a good market, I've got more work than I can possibly do. People don't want me leaving the large tree trunks in their yards after I've cut all the "prime cut" firewood from the tree, so I need a saw that will cut through the large stuff. The last tree I got, approx. 36" locust tree, was really taxing my 55cc, 18" bar Craftsman chainsaw. Now I'm sure that part of the reason was that it's a Crapsman, but if I'm gonna go buy another saw, I'm gonna go larger this time. I can always use the Craftsman for the smaller stuff.
After more research on this site, and the info. on Dolmar saws, the Dolmar PS7300 and 7900 look like good options. Are they as good a saw as Husqs and Stihl?


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## Sealcove (May 5, 2008)

I have never cut locust, but I have to imagine that it's a workout.  I have no experience with Dolmar saws.


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## countrybois (May 5, 2008)

I have a 440 and I LOVE it. I also have an 036, but there is no comparison. I run a 28" bar on the 440 and it seems like a great match, and that is cutting mostly oak. I've had all 28" buried in oak and I grin the whole time. It is mighty heavy to be limbing with though, so maybe if the crapsman is still running, keep it for the small work.


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## Turner-n-Burner (May 5, 2008)

are you limbing these felled trees too?

I've done some limbing with my 357XP, and I wouldn't want to swing anything larger than that.  Seems like your options are either to get one saw that will do everything pretty well - stihl 361 or husky 357.  or get something big like a 372, and have a smaller saw too for limbing.

Oh, and because no-one else said it.  Sharpen sharpen sharpen.  a sharp chain makes a huge diff on any saw!


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## TMonter (May 5, 2008)

> If the majority of the wood is going to be over 24” then it probably is worth hefting the extra weight and power.  I would not bother if the majority of wood is smaller than 24”.  Just my take.



Why do you think I have the 346XP  %-P 

Depending on how much his craftsman weighs it might be good for him to get the 70cc Saw and save the craftsman for the limbing and small work. Of course as you get more saws MCD sets in pretty quick.


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## snydley (May 5, 2008)

Turner-n-Burner said:
			
		

> are you limbing these felled trees too?
> 
> I've done some limbing with my 357XP, and I wouldn't want to swing anything larger than that.  Seems like your options are either to get one saw that will do everything pretty well - stihl 361 or husky 357.  or get something big like a 372, and have a smaller saw too for limbing.
> 
> Oh, and because no-one else said it.  Sharpen sharpen sharpen.  a sharp chain makes a huge diff on any saw!



Yes, I'm limbing too. The Crapsman does ok with that. Oh, and I know about sharpening! Don't even bother if it's not sharp! I bought a Stihl guide bar and files and it works really well. I'm doing as well with that as with having the local shop do it. The Crapsman manual says the saw is 17.6lbs. I assume that's with bar and chain, since it makes no distinction.


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## snydley (May 5, 2008)

TMonter said:
			
		

> > If the majority of the wood is going to be over 24” then it probably is worth hefting the extra weight and power.  I would not bother if the majority of wood is smaller than 24”.  Just my take.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



MCD? :question: 
 The Craftsman is 55cc., 7200+ RPM and 17.6lbs. according to the manual. It doesn't list horsepower. The Dolmar PS 7300,(one option I'm looking at), weighs 13.6 lbs.,(powerhead only), so I think I'd get a bigger more powerful saw with about the same weight. I'm also considering the Stihl MS440, and the Husqy 372XP. The Dolmar seems to be the best "value" of the lot, but is it as good a saw? I don't want to "go cheap" and not get as good a saw. I'd use the Crapsman for the small stuff. It's great on anything that is smaller than the bar length. Part of the reason for getting a bigger saw is to also take some of the work off of the Craftsman. I really "taxed" it with the last locust tree I cut,(approx. 36"). Trying to cut the trunk, when the whole 18" bar was buried in the tree really worked it over! It was stalling and kicking back. I want something that will cut right through that big stuff. I also didn't feel real safe running the Craftsman that way. All in all it just felt like it was too big a tree for that saw. I don't want to buy something and have that same problem, that's my reasoning for going with a bigger saw.


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## GrantC (May 5, 2008)

When I went shopping for a 70cc class saw, I did a lot of research and asked a lot of questions. Someone over at arboristsite.com said something that I found very helpful: in the 70cc class, all of the available saws are of good quality, since just about the only people who buy them are "pros." Even Echo's offering, though light in horsepower relative to others in the class, isn't a bad saw.

Stories about how one brand "blowed up" while another ran 150 years, cured cancer and served cold beer on demand are just that: stories. Truth is, any of the saws in that class will prove to be more than adequate for any use you'll ever put them to.

In my case, I picked a Shindaiwa, based on a history of using their products (all of it fantastically good.) They start easier than others, are harder to flood than many, and have superb fit and finish. That they have a reputation for long service life under harsh usage is icing on the cake. However, I don't think I'd feel any more or less satisfied with a Husky or a Stihl or a Dolmar or a Solo or a....you get the point. 

Since it's hard to make a bad choice in the 70cc class, and lacking previous brand experience, you should probably let local dealer support make the decision for you. Pick the dealer who has the best stock of parts AND accessories, and simply buy whatever saw they carry. 

(After owning and using saws for a while, I've found the accessories are as important to me as the saw itself. If I find something I need or want for sawing, I want to be able to walk in and get it off my dealer's shelf. This includes things like chaps, helmets, wedges, cant hooks, and gas cans. I've gotten to the point where the lack of accessories is my biggest complaint with a dealer, and the usual reason I don't patronize them any more than I have to.)

If you've got a good dealer who has both Husky and Stihl, toss a coin. Seriously.

-=[ Grant ]=-


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## kevin j (May 5, 2008)

great post. can't really go wrong with the bigger saws. Mainly it is a Ford/Chevy fine point arguemtn thing. Go with the best dealer, and what just 'feels right' in your hands.

minor point, but don't do the smaller Dolmars. all three share the same power head, just different cylinders for smaller displacement. The smaller two are popular in rental marker, maybe more durable when in hands of idiots?  So if you get Dolmar, go the 7900 for same weight, but more power.


did I read that wrong-17 lbs and 7000 rpm for 55 cc saw! you could limb with a 460 or 7900 about the same......
you might come home with 5100/7900, or 026/440, or 346/372 pairs!



k


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## snydley (May 5, 2008)

Thanks guys for all the help! I guess my next step is to go to our local Stihl/Husqvarna dealer and actually "put one in my hands". I don't know if they'll actually let me cut something with one, unless they have a demo model of the same size I want. Then my next decision is do I want one of those, or mail order a Dolmar 7900 and save a few bucks. I'll let you know what I decide.
Snyde


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## snydley (May 5, 2008)

kevin j said:
			
		

> great post. can't really go wrong with the bigger saws. Mainly it is a Ford/Chevy fine point arguemtn thing. Go with the best dealer, and what just 'feels right' in your hands.
> 
> minor point, but don't do the smaller Dolmars. all three share the same power head, just different cylinders for smaller displacement. The smaller two are popular in rental marker, maybe more durable when in hands of idiots?  So if you get Dolmar, go the 7900 for same weight, but more power.
> 
> ...



I actually was thinking about the Dolmar 7300. 4.5 cu. in., 5.7bHP for $580. vs. Dolmar 7900 4.8 cu. in. 6.3bHP for $680. from Amicks as long as it's as good a saw as the 7900. Why not buy the 7300 and save $100.? Are there any problems with the smaller ones or is it that the 7900 is just a better deal?
And yes, you read it right, at least that's what the manual says.


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## biggins08 (May 6, 2008)

.6 HP is a lot with a chainsaw........


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## downeast (May 7, 2008)

Get the tool that does what you need to do. If you're up for a macho experience, then it's another matter.
Most cutting by loggers, producers, arborists--the professionals--work with the most efficient tool they need. No macho "muscle car" stuff. -

I've gone DOWN in size over the years: lighter weight, more effective cutting, better maintenance, less fatigue. No more lugging a 440 a mile for clearing < 20" softwoods. A 16" or 18" bar WITH LEARNED SKILLS, and a 50cc pro saw such as a 346 or 260 saw is more than sufficient for 95% of Eastern trees IN THE RIGHT HANDS. ( Caps are for shouting)

What's this about 42" bars and 70cc pro saws simply for working up a truckload of logs or a couple of cords of firewood ?  %-P 

Concentrate on the skills to cut efficiently, safely, intelligently. Know the way your safety gear (PPE-Personal Protective Equipment) works....and use it. Watch loggers and arborists, take a CPL ( Certified Professional Logger), or Game of Logging course. It's competitive, not macho. There's nothing male intuitive about using a tool like a chainsaw. Kind of like rock or ice climbing...mistakes can be the last.  :gulp: 

So, except for Northwestern logging, with DBH ( diameter breast high) in the 6' range, most of North American wood maxes  at 2'-3'. Learn how to use a 16" or 18" bar for boring to fell a 3' DBH for example. It's the brain. How to drop the big one exactly where you want it. Understand how to use wedges and make a safe exit zone for yourself. Have some hard fun. 

JMNSHO


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## Highbeam (May 7, 2008)

Mail ordering a Dolmar??? You'll want to be sure to check that that is still possible. Last I checked it was not possible from Amicks or anyone else unless you can get someone to cheat. 

I've been interested in the 5100s with an 18" bar and my local support it poor.


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## snydley (May 7, 2008)

Highbeam said:
			
		

> Mail ordering a Dolmar??? You'll want to be sure to check that that is still possible. Last I checked it was not possible from Amicks or anyone else unless you can get someone to cheat.
> 
> I've been interested in the 5100s with an 18" bar and my local support it poor.



I emailed Amicks and asked if I could order one over the Net, and if not, if I could call it in and have them ship it to me. They never got back to me. I guess I'll have to call. I don't understand what the big deal is about mail ordering a chainsaw. I pre-pay for the chainsaw + shipping and handling with my Visa, they take the bar and chain off, put it all in a box and ship it, or am I missing something here?


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## TMonter (May 7, 2008)

> I actually was thinking about the Dolmar 7300. 4.5 cu. in., 5.7bHP for $580. vs. Dolmar 7900 4.8 cu. in. 6.3bHP for $680.



The 7300 and 7900 have the same bottom end but different top end and same weight if I remember right. To me the $100 extra dollars is worth the extra power of the 7900. If the saw is going to weigh the same the extra power is worth it IMO.


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## Highbeam (May 7, 2008)

Yep. You're missing the Dolmar company rule that these saws can't be shipped. They want to support the local dealers, else only the big boys would survive and then you wouldn't be able to easily pick up a part for your Dolmar at a local shop. 

Try to mail order a Stihl, Husky, etc. Same deal. To some extent it happens with woodstoves too. I believe Hearthstone has a policy against shipping product.


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## snydley (May 7, 2008)

downeast said:
			
		

> Get the tool that does what you need to do. If you're up for a macho experience, then it's another matter.
> Most cutting by loggers, producers, arborists--the professionals--work with the most efficient tool they need. No macho "muscle car" stuff. -


Nothing macho here, I'm just looking for a bigger and better saw than the 55cc. Craftsman I have.



> I've gone DOWN in size over the years: lighter weight, more effective cutting, better maintenance, less fatigue. No more lugging a 440 a mile for clearing < 20" softwoods. A 16" or 18" bar WITH LEARNED SKILLS, and a 50cc pro saw such as a 346 or 260 saw is more than sufficient for 95% of Eastern trees IN THE RIGHT HANDS. ( Caps are for shouting)



Well good for you! I guess you know it all and I  have no idea at all what I'm doing. Thanks for clearing that up for me. 



> What's this about 42" bars and 70cc pro saws simply for working up a truckload of logs or a couple of cords of firewood ?  %-P



I don't know where you got that from. I WISH all I needed was a couple of cords of firewood. My woodstove is now my primary source of heat. I don't know where you live, but in western NY state we need heat from AT LEAST Sept. - Apr. Hell, it was down in the 30's last night, and we had the stove going all night.
[/quote] 


> Concentrate on the skills to cut .........  JMNSHO


blah, blah, blah. Preach it to someone who gives a crap. :zip:


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## snydley (May 7, 2008)

Highbeam said:
			
		

> Yep. You're missing the Dolmar company rule that these saws can't be shipped. They want to support the local dealers, else only the big boys would survive and then you wouldn't be able to easily pick up a part for your Dolmar at a local shop.
> 
> Try to mail order a Stihl, Husky, etc. Same deal. To some extent it happens with woodstoves too. I believe Hearthstone has a policy against shipping product.



I see. I didn't realize that. I guess that's best if you support your dealer network. That's great, but surprising in this day and age, where the bottom dollar is all that seems to matter to corporate America.


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## GrantC (May 7, 2008)

snydley said:
			
		

> I see. I didn't realize that. I guess that's best if you support your dealer network. That's great, but surprising in this day and age, where the bottom dollar is all that seems to matter to corporate America.



As someone who tried to buy a Dolmar - at 4 different Dolmar dealers - before I bought my Shindaiwa, I can tell you that their policy isn't helping local dealers at all. Not only did I not buy my saw from them, I won't be patronizing them for the lucrative parts and accessories I'll be buying.

-=[ Grant ]=-


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## Oregon8888 (May 7, 2008)

I prefer a Stihl 440 with a 26" bar.  chain speed is the most important and this saw, even at ~$750, is a wood monster.  With the long bar you can cut standing up, of course with steel toe boots, chaps and eye/ear protection.  Consider investing in a log Peavy to lift logs off the ground, as rocks and dirt eat chains.  If the cost is too much, try the Stihl Wood Boss with a 20" bar.  Both saws have great oilers, easy fill caps for oil and gas.  I have both saws.

Scott in Oregon


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## TMonter (May 7, 2008)

For the money the Dolmar is a better performer in the same class compared to the Stihl 440 or the Husky 372XP. He's made the right choice if he's looking for the best power/weight ratio in a professional saw of that class. With more power you can always put a larger rim sprocket on the saw and get some additional chain speed, besides chain speed across all three saws will be similar.


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## snydley (May 7, 2008)

TMonter said:
			
		

> > I actually was thinking about the Dolmar 7300. 4.5 cu. in., 5.7bHP for $580. vs. Dolmar 7900 4.8 cu. in. 6.3bHP for $680.
> 
> 
> 
> The 7300 and 7900 have the same bottom end but different top end and same weight if I remember right. To me the $100 extra dollars is worth the extra power of the 7900. If the saw is going to weigh the same the extra power is worth it IMO.



I'm sure it is, if you've got the $100. to spare. I can put it to better/different use here. I was looking for an approx. 70cc. saw. The Dolmar 73cc. 7300 is just what I'm looking for, and if it's as good as the 7900 I'll take it. Well, I WAS gonna take it, a 7900, for $679.95 from Amicks Superstore, but it looks like they won't mail order one. So now I have to see what kinda price I can get on one at a local dealer, which I'm sure won't be close. Then I'll have to compare prices to a comparable saw by Stihl and Husqvarna and get the better deal of the 3


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## Sealcove (May 7, 2008)

You can order a 372XP for $699 (shipping included).  That is a big jump from the craftsman to a pro saw like this; I would highly recommend getting some training, and making sure your PPE is in good order.

http://www.wisesales.com/Huskysaws.html


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## chad3 (May 7, 2008)

The best power to weight ratio saw isn't the Dolmar anymore its the Solo 681.  6.4 hp at 13.9 lbs compared to the 6.3 at 13.6 and you can order them online at Bailey's.  This saw flat out screams, but still as others were saying not something I would want to use for limbing.  If dropping and bucking its where its at, but forget about it if you want to throw it around (figuratively).
Chad


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## downeast (May 8, 2008)

snydley said:
			
		

> downeast said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





> Concentrate on the skills to cut .........  JMNSHO


blah, blah, blah. Preach it to someone who gives a crap. :zip:[/quote]

Touchy there boy. More time needed in the woods working. 
Oh yeah: "Maine" it says. Does have some cold weather from August to June.
Go to it.  :zip:  it is. 
The Preacher.


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## snydley (May 8, 2008)

Sealcove said:
			
		

> You can order a 372XP for $699 (shipping included).  That is a big jump from the craftsman to a pro saw like this; I would highly recommend getting some training, and making sure your PPE is in good order.
> 
> http://www.wisesales.com/Huskysaws.html


I like the price, but why do some of you people think I need some training, you don't even know me, or how many years I've run a chainsaw, or my experiences. Or is that just a canned response,(get some training), you tell everyone?.


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## Sealcove (May 8, 2008)

I have run a saw professionally for 15 years, and I go through training every single year.  I still pickup new things, fine tune my methods, and realize that I have developed bad habits over the year.  I was assuming that since your primary saw was a classic homeowner saw (nothing wrong with that), that you may never have had any proper training, and if that is the case I would highly recommend it before making a big leap.  Even if you have had training, it may be a good time to consider recurrent training.  This is not meant to be patronizing advice, as there is no room for attitude when working with saws.

Good luck with your selection, and safe cutting.


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## Highbeam (May 8, 2008)

I've had similar problems when I ask (elsewhere) about which electrode to use for my stick welder. "Take a welding class" is the typical canned advice. Yes a chainsaw can hurt and kill you. If you recognize that then I recommend that you learn by doing.


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## snydley (May 8, 2008)

Highbeam said:
			
		

> I've had similar problems when I ask (elsewhere) about which electrode to use for my stick welder. "Take a welding class" is the typical canned advice. Yes a chainsaw can hurt and kill you. If you recognize that then I recommend that you learn by doing.



I agree. If I was cutting down giant redwood trees in California, or some specialized cutting, then a class is in order, but to just cut a few log loads for firewood a year, and maybe cut down an occasional tree that's nowhere near anything that it might fall on, I don't know if that's necessary. As long as a person is aware of the danger involved and is careful that's good enough in this case.


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## downeast (May 8, 2008)

snydley said:
			
		

> MCD? :question:
> The Craftsman is 55cc., 7200+ RPM and 17.6lbs. according to the manual. It doesn't list *horsepower*. The Dolmar PS 7300,(one option I'm looking at), weighs 13.6 lbs.,(powerhead only), so I think I'd get a bigger more powerful saw with about the same weight. I'm also considering the* Stihl MS440, and the Husqy 372XP.* The Dolmar seems to be the best "value" of the lot, but is it as good a saw? I don't want to "go cheap" and not get as good a saw. I'd use the Crapsman for the small stuff. It's great on anything that is smaller than the bar length. Part of the reason for getting a bigger saw is to also take some of the work off of the Craftsman. I really "taxed" it with the last locust tree I cut,(approx. 36"). Trying to cut the trunk, when the whole 18" bar was buried in the tree really worked it over! It was stalling and kicking back. I want something that will cut right through that big stuff. I also didn't feel real safe running the Craftsman that way. All in all it just felt like it was too big a tree for that saw. I don't want to buy something and have that same problem, that's my reasoning for going with a bigger saw.



Take offense or be intelligent Snydley. Those saws you think are right for you are for well-trained professionals.....I wouldn't have anyone "fire in the hole" near me with Semtex . Don't know what it is ? Then listen. Learn. 
Got your own woodlands to work ? Can't cut a 36" with a 20" bar ? Tune the saw, sharpen the chain right, learn technique. 
HP has nothing to do with cutting efficiency. Bar length has little to do with pro cutting EXCEPT in the PNW with DBH over 3'. Don't know PNW or DBH ?  Don't think PPE is worth a damn, huh ? .  
You get touchy about advice, fine. It's too obvious that your experience is slight. But never demean those of us who offer advice FROM EXPERIENCE. Ignore it, fine. Too macho to learn, fine. You got a disease : Ready, fire, aim.  
Try this on another site that deals strictly with all the varieties of using arborist tools:  ArboristSite or Forestry Forum. Get off your chair and get  out and watch arborists, or loggers. 
When you stop learning, don't come down for breakfast. %-P


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## snydley (May 8, 2008)

downeast said:
			
		

> snydley said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You know what, don't even bother writing to me anymore.  You have tons of experience, blah blah blah. Talk about macho,(words that came from your hands). I don't believe a 70cc pro saw is too much for me, and nothing you say is gonna change my mind. It's not a friggin' bazooka or field artillery or something I know nothing about, even though you want to blow your own horn and tell me I don't know what I'm getting into etc., etc. YOU HAVE NO F***KIN' IDEA WHO I AM OR MY EXPERIENCE LEVEL! I just came onto this site looking for advice on 70cc pro saws, and you have to kick your weight around and act like I'm a little kid that knows nothing. Let me tell you something, I've been around a long time, and I don't need YOU to tell me what I should do, if it's anything more than suggestions about 70cc saws. So anything more than that, KEEP IT TO YOURSELF!


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## kevin j (May 8, 2008)

I'd suggest you post the Q on arboristsite saw forum.

I think you will get good info, and also a whole chorus echoing what Maine is saying.

No tree should be treated as anything less than serious.  the closest call I have ever had was less than 20 dbh stump about 20 feet tall. Can't get much more basic than that. and the mind slipped because it was 'so easy' almost got me. And, yes I have done this for a while.

Personally, I'd go the Dolmar for what you describe. Some of the others are overkill, some under.
The 7900 will be my next saw. I won't even look at the smaller two in that frame.


sorry if you are offended, best wishes

k


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## downeast (May 9, 2008)

snydley said:
			
		

> downeast said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Prozac :zip:


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## snydley (May 9, 2008)

kevin j said:
			
		

> I'd suggest you post the Q on arboristsite saw forum.
> 
> I think you will get good info, and also a whole chorus echoing what Maine is saying.
> 
> ...



Well, I get offended when I ask for suggestions on a saw, and instead of that,(only from a couple of people), I get, "that saw's too big", "take a safety course", "I can do that with an 18" bar" and on and on. I'm not a kid, 52yrs., and I'm certainly not an idiot. I know the things are dangerous, and treat them with respect. I didn't come on here to be preached about safety, and if someone doesn't have any good suggestions pertaining to a particular saw or brand, I'd rather they kept their comments to themselves! I have a 55cc, 18" bar Craftsman chainsaw that seems to be a little underpowered for some of the big trunks I need to cut up, so I'm looking for something better. I figured on a 70cc saw, thinking a 55cc Stihl, or Husqvarna, or Dolmar would give me pretty much the same as what I have now. Would it, or would it not, I don't know, but I'm not willing to buy one the same size and find that it's not much better than what I have now. And I don't know where anyone ever got the idea that I don't think cutting a tree down is serious business. It's deadly serious, I know it, and I don't need to be reminded with every reply written to me. Like the message you just wrote to me, you could have left out everything before "Personally I'd go for the Dolmar" and that'd been great. ;-)


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## jawquin (May 9, 2008)

This one is bigger than 70cc. Figured you might enjoy seeing a 2 man saw.  :bug: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9x8rBKC4BE&feature=related


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## Sealcove (May 9, 2008)

snydley said:
			
		

> Well, I get offended when I ask for suggestions on a saw, and instead of that,(only from a couple of people), I get, "that saw's too big", "take a safety course", "I can do that with an 18" bar" and on and on. I'm not a kid, 52yrs.



Sorry I will keep my experienced advice to myself from now on and only tell you what you want to hear.  Attitude has no place behind a chainsaw.  Be safe.


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## chad3 (May 10, 2008)

k[/quote]

Well, I get offended when I ask for suggestions on a saw, and instead of that,(only from a couple of people), I get, "that saw's too big", "take a safety course", "I can do that with an 18" bar" and on and on. I'm not a kid, 52yrs., and I'm certainly not an idiot. I know the things are dangerous, and treat them with respect. I didn't come on here to be preached about safety, and if someone doesn't have any good suggestions pertaining to a particular saw or brand, I'd rather they kept their comments to themselves! I have a 55cc, 18" bar Craftsman chainsaw that seems to be a little underpowered for some of the big trunks I need to cut up, so I'm looking for something better. I figured on a 70cc saw, thinking a 55cc Stihl, or Husqvarna, or Dolmar would give me pretty much the same as what I have now. Would it, or would it not, I don't know, but I'm not willing to buy one the same size and find that it's not much better than what I have now. And I don't know where anyone ever got the idea that I don't think cutting a tree down is serious business. It's deadly serious, I know it, and I don't need to be reminded with every reply written to me. Like the message you just wrote to me, you could have left out everything before "Personally I'd go for the Dolmar" and that'd been great. ;-)[/quote]

When you are asking to go from a Craftsman to a pro saw, most in the know will ask a few questions.  There is a HUGE difference.  Even going from what you have to a pro Stihl (I have a 036 and a 361 it beyond what is imaginable).  Going to something in the 70+ range is a large jump.  As others have said, just be careful.  I've cut about 20+ cords so far between this fall and know and have been good for about 90% with my 361.  We also have a 75cc and a 80+cc saw and they are great for the big wod, but I can still get through it if I needed to with the 361.  I think that this is another thing that these guys are trying to say.  Lets not get into arguments but instead listening to what is said and taking it for what is said.
Go with what you what but I really think you would be happy with something in the 60-75 cc range.
Chad

Mainer, 
I like your thoughts........


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## snydley (May 10, 2008)

Sealcove said:
			
		

> snydley said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No attitude here, or were you talking about yours? :lol: If I was asking for advice on safety, or training, then I would welcome it. But I'm not, I'm asking for advice on a new saw. Instead of people telling me WHAT the difference is between a 55cc Craftsman saw and a Stihl 361 59cc saw,(for example), I'm getting,"70cc's too big" you need a safety course", "training, training" from people. I really CAN appreciate that, but it's not helping me choosing a new saw, and then I'm the bad guy with the attitude because I point out that THAT is not what I was asking for.  I've YET to have someone say, "you really don't need a 70cc. pro saw, a 59cc will give you everything you need in a saw because it's,(fill in the blank with a valid explanation). I'm under the assumption that there isn't going to be much difference between my 55cc. Craftsman and a Stihl 361 with a 59cc engine, it's only 4cc., if there is a big difference then WHAT is it? Believe me, I don't want to spend the extra $$$ for a bigger saw than I need, but I also don't want to buy a saw 4ccs bigger and find it's not much better than what I already have.


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## snydley (May 10, 2008)

chad3 said:
			
		

> snydley said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ok, you say there is a HUGE difference. I'd like someone to explain to me what the HUGE difference in my 55cc Craftsman, and a 361 Stihl 59cc? I'm sure it's built better, is smoother etc.,(like the difference between a 1970 Chevy Impalla and a Cadillac, if they had similar engines), but explain to me WHY it's gonna perform better, say with both having new chains, and 18" bars etc. I don't see how 4cc is gonna make that much of a difference in power and cutting, but I CAN see how going from 55cc to 70cc is gonna make a difference. This all started because I was cutting an approx. 36" locust. Once it was horizontal and I was cutting the lower trunk, the full bar was buried in the trunk and the Craftsman was having a hard time of it, wanting to stall, kicking back etc., and yes the chain was a sharp chain. It really felt like the tree was too big for the saw. 
As far as listening goes, I haven't yet heard why a Stihl 361,(for example). is gonna be all I need. Like I told one of the other guys, I don't want to spend more $$ than is necessary on a saw that's bigger than I need, but I don't want to buy a saw that's 4ccs bigger and find that I just bought a saw that's nicer than what I have, but really doesn't perform much better.


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## chad3 (May 10, 2008)

It is more like the difference between a stock 350 and a race motor.  Two saws that are the same cc will not have the same power.  Even look at two saws at the Stihl website:
MS310:  59cc, 4.0 hp, wt 13.0 lb

MS361:  59cc, 4.4 hp, wt 12.3 lb

They are both the same cc, but the pro model has an extra 1/2 horse (alot in a small saw) as well as 1/2 lb lighter.  These two equate to more power to weight as well as less weight to hold the saw down (if that makes sense).


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## kevin j (May 10, 2008)

I think best bet is to find a good dealer and try out some saws. 
Yes, there is a big difference in quality and hp and feel and productivity for the same size engine.

Without a sense of what a pound or .5 hp feels like in a saw, the numbers won't mean so much.
After using a couple good saws, you will know what one feels right.


k


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## snydley (May 10, 2008)

chad3 said:
			
		

> It is more like the difference between a stock 350 and a race motor.  Two saws that are the same cc will not have the same power.  Even look at two saws at the Stihl website:
> MS310:  59cc, 4.0 hp, wt 13.0 lb
> 
> MS361:  59cc, 4.4 hp, wt 12.3 lb
> ...



Now THIS is the kind of info. I was looking for,(now that wasn't so hard, was it folks  :cheese: ) Maybe the 361 is just what I need. I'll buy one with an 18" bar and chain and it'll still have enough power to put a 24" bar on it for the big stuff if necessary. Thanks for the info.!


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## Sealcove (May 10, 2008)

snydley said:
			
		

> No attitude here, or were you talking about yours? :lol: If I was asking for advice on safety, or training, then I would welcome it. But I'm not, I'm asking for advice on a new saw.



The point you are missing is that the two things are not exclusive; with saw selection comes a level of education, training, and safety. Nobody is telling you what to do, rather we are offering advice based on experience.  It is truly not meant to be condescending, and I would welcome the same advice even though I have lots of training and work professionally with a saw.

Regarding the 361 with an 18" bar, I think it would make a great firewood saw.


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## snydley (May 10, 2008)

*Bought a saw* :ahhh: 

Thanks to all of you for all of your help on picking a saw, I bought one on eBay today. A brand new Stihl MS361, here's the URL if anyone's interested. 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...id=m37&satitle=230250030635	&category0=&fvi=1

Sorry if I P.Oed anyone on here with anything I said, you guys are a valuable resource and I'd hate to be on any of your $hit lists! ;-)    

I think I made a pretty good deal, saved a little off what I'd have paid here.
I'll let you know what I think of it once I use it.
Take care,
Snyde


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## Sealcove (May 11, 2008)

The MS361 is a great saw.  It should serve you very well.


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## chad3 (May 11, 2008)

Yup, the 361 is a very good saw.  I was using mine today to cut up some 20ish dia oak.  Wasn't as fast as some of my others, but if you don't try and muscle the saw through the cut, it'll pull through.  Make sure you keep the chain sharp and watch the ground when cutting (see lots of guys running their chains into the ground).  Not that I am trying to tell you what/how to cut, but just a reminder. 
Glad I could help even a bit.
Chad


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## loggie (May 11, 2008)

Its too bad when you give someone advise about a saw from a pro logger 30 years experience another person has to poke fun about your saw serving cold beer,this guy must know it all,probably never even started a big saw.Lets remember the western sawyers are cutting mostly softwood and they mostly use a different saw than we use in the east cutting hardwoods.I think you bought a great saw with the 361 but you will be disappointed in big hardwoods as this saw isn't in the same league as the 460 or 660.I have seen no talk about chains here in this thread,I am running the .325 pitch on my 036 but its small cutters are fragile and dull quickly cutting firewood,but I think the .375 is alot for this saw and if you file the rakers the saw wont pull it well.Today I cut about 6cds of 2 year old locust averaging 2' in diameter with my 066 with the 25" bar using a .375 skiptooth round chisel cutter with the rakers knocked down and had good luck in this wood which is about the hardest you will find next to osage orange.I sharpened one side of the chain on each fuel stop.Wood like this is beyond the 036 in any timely manner which was listed in sthils brochure as a professional pulpwood cutters saw[softwood]by the way.Now I know Ive offended all the minimalist's out there who cut 2' wood with a 12" bar and it is possible,just not practical,[timely manner] A big saw wont cut that much faster than a medium sized saw with the green strap anti kickback chain on it.When I worked for my logger friend the chains he ran were so aggressive that you could cut a 3' oak with his 064 and never use the dogs and never push on the saw,but you better respect a saw like that if you are inexperienced.This is how I run my chains now, it takes years to learn how to file chains like this and safely use them but if you do you will understand why it is much easier to use a big saw than a small one in big wood.good luck with your new saw and remember we can always learn a new trick and I bet in a year you will be looking at that 460 :cheese:


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## chad3 (May 11, 2008)

Loggie,
Not sure what you are getting at, but a guy who is looking to run a saw will be in for a long day with either of the ones you posted.  Is the 361 best in huge wood?  Of course not, but it will get through as well as being lots lighter and more nimble in 99% of the wood.  I was talking to a guy that I cut with right now and he figured we have taken a total of about 45-50 cord in this spring with most cut with the 361 (on my end).  
Not to be talking on the web, but if we both were to cut for 8 hours (talking firewood here) I'll take the 361 and you can use the 66 and lets see how we both fair over the course of the day.
I'm sure you know what I mean.


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## hornett22 (May 12, 2008)

great choice on the 361! if i did firewood only i wouldn't use more than an ms361 or a 357xp.


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## Jay H (May 12, 2008)

I find my 59cc Husky 359 (59cc 3.9hp 12.l lbs (powerhead only)) is fairly adept at the 36"ish hardwood rounds I have been splitting (so far). I'm no expert and I've never tried any other chainsaw or brand than my husky but so far so good.  For my needs, it is good enough. I am only bucking rounds for firewood and not even felling trees (I really have none to fell)....   I have not experienced problems with the saw kicking back or bogging on the large rounds, except for when my chain was dull then it was obvious and I would stop and work on the chain.

Jay


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## loggie (May 13, 2008)

Hey,chad3 what are you cutting for firewood 8"pine?THIS THREAD IS ABOUT WHICH 70CC SAW FOR CUTTING 3' DIAMETER HARDWOOD ON A REGULAR BASIS, ANYTHING SMALLER THAN A 441 WILL TAKE TWICE AS LONG AND BE ALOT HARDER WORK.I have a 36" bar for the 066 and it takes about 20 seconds a slice and that is much easier than sawing both sides with a small saw gnawing away trying to line up your cuts all the way through after 10 min of struggling.I will take the big saw with a few extra pounds and almost twice the horsepower and let the saw do the work,my day will be alot easier than yours.Why do you think I leave my 036 in the truck except for the tops and use the 066 all day in big wood because its harder?Not everyone wants to use a 066 thats why I suggested the 441,but the point I am making is its hard to have too much saw in 3' hardwood.chad3 bring your 361 over to my locust pile and we will both saw for 8hrs on Saturday,me with the 066,I will go fishing on sun but you will have to cut another 6hrs on to match what I cut on sat and we will see who is more tired on Monday morn ;-) ing.


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## chad3 (May 13, 2008)

No, he actually said that it was up to a 36" oak and I'm guess that they are few and far between. Every saw has its place and for a one saw guy, I don't think the 440/460 would be a very good saw.  I wouldn't want to be limbing with a saw like that (so sure, lets cut up a few white oaks that I have from bottom to top for firewood and you can use your 066 with the 36" bar and we'll see how each feels at the end of the day).  I've got one in the 60 range, one in the 70 range, one in the 80 range and a 3120 on the mill so I do know what each saw can do.
To each his own.  And the right saw for the right job.


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## Gooserider (May 19, 2008)

{moderator mode on} First off, I hope we can all mellow out a bit and be more civil to each other - I don't like having to use my moderator hat very often, but this thread is getting a bit heated, so let's cool it down a bit. {/moderator mode}

My cutting is mostly bucking up grapple loads of log-length, with occasional scrounging and a few tree drops thrown in - nearly all hardwoods, mostly red oak, maple, etc. (Similar to the OP's situation)

My first saw was a 36cc Pull-on; with the stock 16" bar and "safety chain" it was a lousy cutter.  I applied the 3cc of engine per inch of bar rule; rebarred it with a 12" bar, and switched to full chisel, non-safety chain, and turned it into a little wood eating monster, but it now wasn't big enough to deal happily with a large amount of the wood that came my way, though I could with effort handle about 60% or so.

So I went new-saw hunting, initially was thinking Husky / Stihl, pro-grade.  I wanted to be able to run around a 20" bar normally, with the ability to run a bigger bar occasionally as a desirable bonus.  Per the above sizing rule, this meant at least a 60cc saw.  After asking here and on ArboristSite, I got interested in Dolmar, which appeared to be offering more saw for the $, and also had fewer mixed reviews (there were people w/ bad things to say about H & S, but everybody seemed to agree that Dolmars were good...) After shopping around, I got a really nice price on a Dolmar 7900 w/ 20 and 28" bars, chains, etc. from Amick's - very shortly before Dolmar made the (IMHO stupid) move of keeping Amick's and a few other dealers from shipping saws.

It is one of the best purchases I've ever made!  The saw runs fantastic, and goes through logs like a Ginsu knife goes through vegetables in a TV info-mercial....  Mostly I use the 20" bar, but recently I had a neighbor give me some 40+" maple trunks, if I'd cut them up and help move them away - With the 28" bar, it was no problem, and even burying the 28" bar full depth in a log the saw didn't slow down appreciably...

I also use the 7900 (w/ the 20" bar) as a limbing saw when I drop a tree.  The Pull-on is a little lighter, and a bit more agile with the short bar, but the difference isn't that great, I don't find it enough to justify swapping saws.  In short, if I know that all I'll be cutting is small stuff and brush, I'll grab the Pull-on; but if I'm planning any cutting of wood over 8-10" diameter, I grab the 7900 - it's overkill on that size, but the saw cuts so much better I don't mind the extra weight.  

I also find that if I'm cutting wood that is on the ground, the 20" bar saves me from a fair bit of bending over - much easier on the back...

Gooserider


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## snydley (May 19, 2008)

Gooserider said:
			
		

> {moderator mode on} First off, I hope we can all mellow out a bit and be more civil to each other - I don't like having to use my moderator hat very often, but this thread is getting a bit heated, so let's cool it down a bit. {/moderator mode}



They started it.  ;-) 



> My cutting is mostly bucking up grapple loads of log-length, with occasional scrounging and a few tree drops thrown in - nearly all hardwoods, mostly red oak, maple, etc. (Similar to the OP's situation)



I wish you'd have been around here a couple of weeks ago. It sounds like your situation is alot like mine. I could have used you in my corner.  :coolgrin: 



> My first saw was a 36cc Pull-on; with the stock 16" bar and "safety chain" it was a lousy cutter.



Mine was a 33cc. Craftsman. It got stolen when some punks broke into my tool shed 6 or 7 years ago. 20" bar. Very gutless.
Not knowing any better at the time, I took the insurance money and bought another Craftsman but a 55cc. 18" bar this time. A lot better cutter, but still too small for the bigger stuff. I wanted to buy a Dolmer 7900 too, from what people had to say about them, the price at Amicks and what research I did on them, but I LET the guys on here talk me out of it. I found a nice used one on eBay that was going for $299. at the time,  that ended up selling for $471. + $65. S&H;.  I ended up buying a brand new Stihl MS361 on there instead. I hope I won't be sorry I didn't go for the bigger saw, and hope the 361 will handle the big stuff when I have some more of that come my way. I figured I'd get a 25" bar and chain for it next time I get some big stuff. My idea was to get a little bit bigger saw than I might need, just in case I got another big tree trunk to cut up. I've been scrounging a lot of wood this Spring, free for the taking, and I don't image that anyone would be too thrilled if I cut up all the "prime cuts" for firewood and left a big carcase of a trunk in their yard because I didn't have a big enough saw or want to bother with cutting it up. Only time will tell at this point.


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## Gooserider (May 19, 2008)

Didn't ask who started it, don't really care as multiple people were involved - I just want it to stop...

I've been off line for a bit, had to go out of town for several weeks to deal with my father's memorial service and some estate issues, and will be leaving tomorrow for another week to be a delegate to the Libertarian Party national convention, but will then be back for a good while.

In terms of the saw, I agree that the 361 is a nice unit, and hope that it does well for you.  It probably won't handle the big stuff as well as a 7900, but it should be able to do the job.  Certainly you will find a big improvement in going from a home-owner grade saw to a pro model, you can feel the difference as soon as you pick one up.  I also figure the big trunk peices ARE the "prime cuts" for firewood - many more splits per round.  Of course they are a bit of work, but not that bad once you get them started, or if you have a hydraulic.

Gooserider


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## snydley (May 19, 2008)

Gooserider said:
			
		

> Didn't ask who started it, don't really care as multiple people were involved - I just want it to stop...



It was meant in jest, hence the smiley. When it comes right down to it I don't really even care about the whole thing. There's more to be concerned in life with than crap like that.   :cheese: 



> I've been off line for a bit, had to go out of town for several weeks to deal with my father's memorial service and some estate issues, and will be leaving tomorrow for another week to be a delegate to the Libertarian Party national convention, but will then be back for a good while.



Go Libertarians!! I hope someday that they might be the next viable political party and someday have a shot at the White House. A much better choice than the crap the 2 stinkin' parties have been handing us over the last 20, err 30, err 40 yrs., oh hell for as long as I can remember. :zip: 



> In terms of the saw, I agree that the 361 is a nice unit, and hope that it does well for you.  It probably won't handle the big stuff as well as a 7900, but it should be able to do the job.  Certainly you will find a big improvement in going from a home-owner grade saw to a pro model, you can feel the difference as soon as you pick one up.  I also figure the big trunk peices ARE the "prime cuts" for firewood - many more splits per round.  Of course they are a bit of work, but not that bad once you get them started, or if you have a hydraulic.



I agree about the prime cuts. What I meant was if you were cutting someone's tree down for the wood they wouldn't be very happy if you cut and hauled away all of the easy cutting large limbs and branches, and left the trunk there for them to deal with.


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## savageactor7 (May 19, 2008)

Hi sidney I have a 16" Stil farm boss and a 20" 272xp Huskey and both are good saws...had both for quite awhile.  Either manufacturer will deliver the goods. I started buying Huskey cause there's a dealer close by and if there's a problem he will fix it asap and he has.

I don't want to tell you what to do but I wouldn't buy either saw from a big box store. Service and support from dealer that knows you and has an investment in you can be a big leg up...just say'en. (I am in no way disparaging big box stores or the people that shop there)


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## Outdoorsman (May 21, 2008)

[quote author="downeast" date="1210176901"]Get the tool that does what you need to do. If you're up for a macho experience, then it's another matter.
Most cutting by loggers, producers, arborists--the professionals--work with the most efficient tool they need. No macho "muscle car" stuff. -


Small saws are fine if you've lots of time & take pride in getting the absolute most from one.  But time does count to most of us more than the cost of a larger saw.  It's not a macho thing, it's a time issue.

And where I'm at the pros use larger saws than mine or what you suggest.

Beyond that I've deleted the rest of my original post as I should have read the whole thread first.


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## Outdoorsman (May 21, 2008)

A good saw, my father in law has had a 036 for years and it just keeps on cut'n.


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