# slight hydraulic issue w/ splitter (with picture)



## Adios Pantalones (Apr 11, 2010)

I have a Troy Bilt 33 ton splittah that's a few years old.  Has been great.  Today I noticed that at the end of the return stroke the lever was not popping back- the engine bogged down.  Happened many, but not every time.  Then I noticed that there's some fluid leaking from the valve.  On the return stroke there appear to be bubbles coming out at this leak point.  I wiped it down and it was greasy again after several more cycles.

Here's a pic of exactly where the leak is occurring.







The bolts there are tight.  Do I just need a new gasket, or is it something more serious?

Thanks


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## Stevebass4 (Apr 11, 2010)

have the same splitter with 60 hours on it and i noticed the same thing one day - a little grease coming out - wiped it off and never had a problem yet.. wonder if you could just wd40 the little bike chain looking thing across from the handle  (sorry don't know the name of it)


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## Adios Pantalones (Apr 11, 2010)

It seems to be well greased, but it's good to know that you've operated with this with no further issues.


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## loon (Apr 11, 2010)

kinda have the same problem with mine, will work fine for 1/2 hour then doesnt go back all the way???
made a thicker gasket for it thinking it is hitting the end,   still did it the other day but not as bad so gonna try an even thicker one this week.










there is no gasket on it from the factory but it wont hurt for you to make one from very thin material.

Terry


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## FuzzyOne (Apr 12, 2010)

I just replaced the valve on my MTD.  Here is a reference link to the valve that had been on mine.  It was an Energy valve.  Might just be an O ring.

http://www.energymfg.com/pdf/17498X.pdf

and parts for it...

http://www.energymfg.com/online-catalog/log-splitter-valve-accessories.html


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## benjamin (Apr 12, 2010)

for the record, I've never seen this specific valve, and I'm not even sure what the mechanism is that kicks it back at the end of the stroke.

The cover on the right end looks similar to most other hyd valves that I've had apart.  There's usually a spring and an o-ring in there that will leak something aweful if it gets crushed.  Two of the banks did that to me on a JD backhoe.  There was a small hole with a screen at the bottom of that cover thingie with the two small bolts holding it on. In that case the cover wasn't intended to be fluid tight, just dust proof.

Loon, MAYBE it's leaking slightly more than it's supposed to or there is no hole to deal with the leaking fluid, so it fills up with oil and won't retract.  

MAYBE it won't kick out of the retract because the o-ring is crushed and getting in the way of things in there.  

In either case, pull that off and take a look.  On every one that I can remember the spring was actually bolted on so that cover was only a dust cover and something for the spring to push against but nothing shot out when I took it off, but be careful, and catch any pieces that are broken also.


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## loon (Apr 12, 2010)

thanks ben, will take it apart again and post pics as i have no friggen idea why its doing what its doing????


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## triptester (Apr 12, 2010)

The cover at the back of that valve is only a dust cover there is no seal or gasket. There is a slight amount of grease that is used to lube the balls that ride into the detent grooves. The problem is most likely a worn O-ring or scored valve body if hydraulic fluid leaks from the back of the valve.

Fluid leakage by the rear O-ring can keep the detent from working properly.


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## bogydave (Apr 12, 2010)

I would definitely  contact MTD, or got to where you bought it & complain.
With the recalls due to the valve issues on the MTD splitters, you should/could get a new one (valve) from them at no cost.
Worth a try.


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## benjamin (Apr 12, 2010)

Good point Dave, why mess with it if it's their defective design, and they're willing to make it right.

If not, it could be failing to kick out because of the detent balls and springs and the seapage out the back end is just the result of this increased pressure for longer than usual. 

Looks like the links show that back cover is non servicable, and you spend $40 for the back end or $85 for the whole valve, I'd go for the whole valve.


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## FuzzyOne (Apr 13, 2010)

The thing with this valve, including the ones on the Speeco, TS, Troy B., etc. is they are not adjustable for the detent.  This was one of the reasons I replaced mine with a Prince valve.


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## bogydave (Apr 13, 2010)

FuzzyOne said:
			
		

> The thing with this valve, including the ones on the Speeco, TS, Troy B., etc. is they are not adjustable for the detent.  This was one of the reasons I replaced mine with a Prince valve.



+1
If you have to replace the valve yourself, the Prince is even "Made in the USA"   3 year warranty, adjustable detent 
 1/2" & 3/4" ports: 
http://stores.daltonhydraulic.com/-strse-Logsplitter-Parts-cln-Valves/Categories.bok


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## loon (Apr 13, 2010)

bought it at a big box store here but cant find the reciept,will be stopping by the store today and see what they have to say?
purchased about year and a half ago.

the top pic shows the gasket i put on..


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## kevin j (Apr 13, 2010)

I would not seal up the end with the gasket. As trip posted, the cover is just to keep dirt out, the spool is suupposed to be sealed by an oring usually in the body bore, occasionally in a groove on the spool. If that seal is leaking slowly, better to have it weep out of the cover than to build up pressure inside the cover. Pressure buildup will either prevent the spool from moving properly, sometimes hold the spoool part shifted, or sometimes break or crack the cover.

see about waranty, or pull the spool out and replace the oring. If it is just an occasional drop, just run it.


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## Adios Pantalones (Apr 18, 2010)

Thanks for the input guys.  Sorry for not responding, but I was in SC on bidnizz.  I'll take a look when the weather permits


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## loon (Apr 18, 2010)

the store told me that there wasnt a recall on my unit?

and the lady i talked to was a bit of a b!tch?? so i am gonna take the new gasket off and try again today.

can i see the o ring you guys are talking about with the cover off? or do i have to get in it deeper? i cant find an o ring the way it is sitting....

thanks eh
Terry


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## benjamin (Apr 18, 2010)

I still haven't figured out what the mechanism to kick out the detent at the end of the stroke is, so I may be wrong. 

But if it's like other valve, then the o-ring is against or inside of the cast iron body of the valve.  The inside of that cover should not be filled with oil unless it's leaking.  

The o-ring may be in a countersunk-recess and covered with a washer in which case you would probably take the thingie off the end of the spool or maybe loosen something enough to be able to see if the o-ring is damaged.  

Or the o-ring may be in a groove inside of the bore, in which case you would have to take the spool out, which probably isn't as bad as it sounds.  Just don't pound on anything, it should all come apart and go back together with some wiggleing and twisting and other gentle persuasion.  Worst case you end up with a new Prince valve, new one sold for $60 shipped the other day on fleabay, and you won't get to have this fun for another 20-40 years, instead of 2.

Loon, if you're only concerned about the splitter not retracting after it's been used a while, then it's most likely filling up with oil and preventing the spool from moving back. you can confirm this by loosening both of those bolts a couple of turns when it does this and seeing if that lets you put the valve all the way back, you could do this with the splitter off or on if you can shut it off easily.  if the oil leak isn't bad enough to concern you then just cut an oil drain into the bottom of the gasket and ignore it.


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## loon (Apr 18, 2010)

thanks eh!!

going out to the garage shortly and will check it out.

Terry


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## triptester (Apr 18, 2010)

Here is a link to Energy hydraulics  with a instruction sheet for typical valve.

Beware when working on the detent end of the valve there are 5 steel balls and two springs that can be easily lost.


http://www.energymfg.com/pdf/16445x.pdf


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## benjamin (Apr 18, 2010)

If I'm reading that diagram right, the detent spring assembly #16 unscrews from the spool and allows you to take of the retainer, backup washer and o-ring, without taking the spring assembly apart, but it WOULD be so much fun...


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## triptester (Apr 18, 2010)

The spool can be removed by disconnecting the handle and dust cover then gentily pushing the stem out the back.
Attached is a pic.


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## loon (Apr 18, 2010)

my o ring must be inside the casing and not sure right now if i take the handle off and pull it through whats gonna happen? as the case seems to be sealed so not sure how i would replace it yet?

i shouldnt have any oil in the dust cover 'right'?  thanks and still poking away...

Terry


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## triptester (Apr 18, 2010)

The only seals that are on the valve are the O-rings. There should be little to no fluid in the dust cover, if more than a trace of fluid is in the dust cover it is a indicator that the O-ring is bad. When removing spool do not pull on the metal sleeves of the detent, this could cause the balls and spring to pop out.


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## loon (Apr 18, 2010)

ok gang found the problem and thanks everybody!!

undid the handle and pushed the rod back through the case and guess what was found? an o-ring that was flopping around,loose as all get out %-P

i know that the unit isn't all that expensive but why pay the cash when all i had to do is post some pics and have people that know whats up, fill me in   

thanks again...

Terry


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## triptester (Apr 18, 2010)

In the pic showing the complete spool you will see 2 small holes in the grooves of the spool. This I believe is where the pressure builds to kick out the detent. If the holes get dirt in them the detent will stick.


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## loon (Apr 18, 2010)

triptester, it seemed that the o ring was in the groove where the arrow is.
but it looked like it was 2 sizes to big?? the ring wasnt damaged just looked like it was very stretched?  will also go check those little holes for any dirt...Terry


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## triptester (Apr 18, 2010)

According to Energy literature the O-ring fit into grooves in the valve body not the spool.


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## loon (Apr 18, 2010)

it seemed that the ring was in the groove where the little hole is?
 but if it's supposed to be there wouldnt it act like a piece of dirt and not let the hydraulics work properly?

dont have the right  o ring here, but will pick one up in town tomorrow...


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## LLigetfa (Apr 18, 2010)

loon said:
			
		

> it seemed that the ring was in the groove where the little hole is?


I'm sure it doesn't go in the groove of the spool.  It goes behind the detent mechanism.


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## benjamin (Apr 19, 2010)

the o-ring is right where it's supposed to be.  does it look cut or flattened at all?  does the recess that it came out of have any dirt or debris in it?


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## loon (Apr 19, 2010)

yes, it is kinda 'flat'...

Loon


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## loon (Apr 20, 2010)

just put the new o-ring on and that was the problem. it now has a (strong) kickback where before it was kind of a (light) kickback...

thanks all

Terry


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## loon (May 8, 2010)

split half a cord the other day and it worked like new!!  

Adios Pantalones how did you make out with your problem ??

terry


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## glassmanjpf (Jun 28, 2010)

I'm having the same problem with my 27 ton troy built.  Leaking and ram not coming down at full speed and continues to drop after handle put in neutral.  Retracts very slowly.  Going to open it up and check the o-rings.


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## LLigetfa (Jun 28, 2010)

glassmanjpf said:
			
		

> I'm having the same problem with my 27 ton troy built.  Leaking and ram not coming down at full speed and continues to drop after handle put in neutral.  Retracts very slowly.  Going to open it up and check the o-rings.


Not the same symptoms as the OP.  Your issue sounds like the problem is in the ram or air in the oil.


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## glassmanjpf (Jul 1, 2010)

I changed the two o rings and got it all back together.  Split a few small pieces and it works fine.  The only question I have is that I saw in earlier post that the steel balls should have a small amount of some grease on them?  I failed to grease them.  Do you think I need to go back in with a dap of bearing grease?  How much is enough?  Thanks.


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## triptester (Jul 1, 2010)

The steel balls only need a slight film of grease to lubricate and prevent corrosion. Do not pack tight with grease.


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## glassmanjpf (Jul 2, 2010)

Perfect...thanks so much triptester!


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## glassmanjpf (Jul 7, 2010)

So disappointed...the splitter worked great for two hours and then started leaking from under the detent cover.  Any suggestions out there?  Planning on changing the neoprene O rings with silicon O rings.  If that doesn't work I may have to replace tghe whole valve assemply.


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## kevin j (Jul 7, 2010)

o-ring material may be the cause of the short life. neoprene (from hardware store?) should work with petroleum oil, but not the preferred choice.  Nitrile (Buna N, in either 70 or 90 hardness but 70 preferred) would be recommended.   I would not use silicone.

or it is possible that nicks, scratches, or other damage is such that the oring life is short. 

I would disassemble again, check all for sharp corners or edges, or other damage, use new Buna ('N70") o rings. Greae or oil them before asembly.  Check spool and bore for excessive wear or shart edges, rust, etc.

k


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