# New to Me MS 261 - what to look out for?



## GadDummit (May 27, 2017)

Hi everyone! First post here. I just fell into a standard Stihl MS 261, 18 in. bar (not the Mtronic fancy pants techno-gobble one) that is replacing a Poulan Pro PP3516AVX (35 cc) 18incher that gave up the ghost on a 20 inch oak tree that blew down on me. Dang thing only has 30 psi of compression now. Won't even start.

Anyway, this is my first "professional" saw. I've been looking at videos and doing research and this seems like exactly the saw I should have gotten to begin with, had I any sense. 

It is USED though, so what should I be looking for to make sure it's in tip-top shape? I cut about 1-2 cords a year, just a backyard guy, but dang it I need something reliable. And I'm hoping this is a saw I can pass down to my kids and grandkids when I'm old and rickety.

Any suggestions, tips, maintenance rituals are appreciated. I don't really know anything about saws, but I _severely _have a desire to learn.


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## Tar12 (May 27, 2017)

Keep your chain sharp...replace the chain sprocket as needed and keep your air filter cleaned and it will last you a long time..I personally use the synthetic mix for all of my stihls...you won't have any trouble with it.If its going to sit for any great length of time dump the fuel out and fire it up and run it dry. Thats it...


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## GadDummit (May 28, 2017)

Thanks Tar! How do I know when the sprocket needs changing? Is there a rule of thumb (2 cords = new sprocket)?


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## Tar12 (May 28, 2017)

The chain will start to wear a groove into the sprocket. In turn when the groove gets to deep it starts to damage the drive links. Do not over tighten your chain to help avoid this. It wear regardless but you can save wear and tear by not over tightening. The sprockets last a long time just keep a eye on it.


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## salecker (May 28, 2017)

Run your mix ratio at 32:1,try to find gas without any ethanol,use Seafoam in the gas.
EPA is behind 50:1...oil is cheap parts and labor not so cheap.
If the saw was used when you bought it...you should pull the muffler to check the condition,should have been done before you bought it.... but we all learn as we buy saws.


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## Prof (May 28, 2017)

I have the same saw and absolutely love it---I have a 362 and the 261 is my go to saw almost every time. You got some good advice already, so I don't have much to add to that.  I have a rim sprocket on mine--lasts a bit longer than the spur sprocket and is easier to replace when needed--even though I've cut about 40 cords with the saw and haven't had to replace it yet. Another tid bit of advice is to flip the bar every so often. I usually do it when I change the chain. It always amazes me when people tell me that you can't run the bar "up-side-down." I also use a dremel or flat file to take the bur off the side of the bar when it needs it, which is not often either. In terms of saws, I think you traded up significantly, and should notice quite a difference. Happy cutting!


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## GadDummit (May 28, 2017)

salecker said:


> Run your mix ratio at 32:1,try to find gas without any ethanol,use Seafoam in the gas.
> EPA is behind 50:1...oil is cheap parts and labor not so cheap.
> If the saw was used when you bought it...you should pull the muffler to check the condition,should have been done before you bought it.... but we all learn as we buy saws.



Wait....32:1? I always heard more was better when it came to 2 stroke engines. Am I tearing up my other 2 strokes at 50:1?


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## Tar12 (May 28, 2017)

You are not tearing up your saws...I have run 50:1 for years with no problems what so ever.


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## cd36 (May 28, 2017)

Remember the richer oil:fuel ratio you run, the leaner the fuel:air ratio is, as the carb meters the fuel and oil together. So the less fuel and more oil in what it is metering means a leaner mixture overall. 

In my 2 stroke engines I always run the recommended mixture, maybe erring a bit on to much oil, but don't go overboard. 

Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk


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## GadDummit (May 28, 2017)

cd36 said:


> Remember the richer oil:fuel ratio you run, the leaner the fuel:air ratio is, as the carb meters the fuel and oil together. So the less fuel and more oil in what it is metering means a leaner mixture overall.
> 
> In my 2 stroke engines I always run the recommended mixture, maybe erring a bit on to much oil, but don't go overboard.
> 
> Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk




My thinking was that it makes sense to run 50:1 because more gas = more BOOM = more power vs the 40:1 or 32:1, but I just read that the extra oil helps seal the rings during that boom so you end up with more power at higher oil ratios (lower first numbers) in 2 stroke engines. I agree that oil is cheap and parts are expensive, so I might just swap everything over to 32:1 and see if it fouls any plugs. My outboard runs 50:1 now and I've erred on that one on the side of less oil, not more. I'm going to stop that right now!


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## cd36 (May 28, 2017)

GadDummit said:


> My thinking was that it makes sense to run 50:1 because more gas = more BOOM = more power vs the 40:1 or 32:1, but I just read that the extra oil helps seal the rings during that boom so you end up with more power at higher oil ratios (lower first numbers) in 2 stroke engines. I agree that oil is cheap and parts are expensive, so I might just swap everything over to 32:1 and see if it fouls any plugs. My outboard runs 50:1 now and I've erred on that one on the side of less oil, not more. I'm going to stop that right now!


Without going into a whole lot of theory on how engines run, more gas doesn't mean more power. Your engine will run a bit rich of ideal mixture, to help with cooling. Leaning your engine out will actually produce more power. 

If you caught it though, you can already see the issue. Your engine runs rich of its ideal to keep it cool. You lean it out and make more power but now your engine is running hotter as well. It also runs hotter when running at wide open throttle and under a load, does this sound at all familiar to a chainsaw? Some engines actually make the engine run even richer than how rich it normally runs at WOT just to keep it from melting down. 

I also don't think the extra oil would seal the rings better any appreciable amount, I can't prove it but I'm also sure whoever told you that can't either. 

If you're going to mess with the fuel: oil mixture, at the very least retune your carb to run slightly richer. But really 2 stroke engines have been running 50:1 since the 70s, I don't think you're in much immediate threat of it being under oilled. 

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## GadDummit (May 28, 2017)

The 70's is when the "more oil is better to seal the rings" test was ran. I found it here on Hearth.

Some things I'm reading about the 261 - do they have weak cranks? One guy said he got one with a bent crank and it made the cord you yank on to start it wobble.

Also, is it easy to get the muffler off? I'd like to check the piston ASAP when I get back home on Monday night to see what I'm dealing with. If it's broke, I might be looking for a step-by-step on how to rebuild your 261 :D

And another thing, has ANYONE ever broken their plastic 261 handle? I see a lot of complaints, but no horror stories (yet). If so, could you just swap the metal handle off a 026 or something?


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## salecker (May 29, 2017)

Sure they work fine at 50:1
but if one thing goes bad you don't have any insurance.Fuel filter or air filter plugs and puts the saw in a lean situation you don't have any oil residue for back up.
You look at the dead saws that the consumer has and i see a lot of them.EPA fixed jets and 50:1. Scored pistons,dirty air filters or dull chains and a bone dry bottom end.
 If you know how to tune your saw and know what sound it makes when it's running lean,then you probably are fine with 50:1.I know those things and will spend the extra pennies for the insurance or a proper mix.
 Go to the HL Supply website.You will see that the aftermarket cylinder/piston kits they are develping for Stihl and Husky saws all have 40:1 mixtures recommended.
 So go ahead and run 50:1...and keep looking at new saws so you know what to buy when it comes time.


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## GadDummit (May 29, 2017)

salecker said:


> Sure they work fine at 50:1
> but if one thing goes bad you don't have any insurance.Fuel filter or air filter plugs and puts the saw in a lean situation you don't have any oil residue for back up.
> You look at the dead saws that the consumer has and i see a lot of them.EPA fixed jets and 50:1. Scored pistons,dirty air filters or dull chains and a bone dry bottom end.
> If you know how to tune your saw and know what sound it makes when it's running lean,then you probably are fine with 50:1.I know those things and will spend the extra pennies for the insurance or a proper mix.
> ...




No need to get defensive, I was surprised at the difference in oil ratios and said as much, but I also said i was going to switch over to a more oil rich mixture. You're preaching to a convert, amigo


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## Alpine1 (May 29, 2017)

Much depends on the oil you intend to use... with fully synthetic jaso FD oil you can go 2% no problem. Keep your chain well sharpened, you air filter clean and use top quality oil for your mix and your stihl will be with you for many years to come


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## Sean McGillicuddy (May 30, 2017)

When you change out your chain ..... flip your bar.


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## GadDummit (May 30, 2017)

Trying to get the muffler off now and I got the two torx screws off but don't know what is next? Seems like nothing else is holding it on. Any tips?


EDIT: Nevermind, i figured it out. there's two covers like metal clips or somesuch over the top screws. Hold on for pics!


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## GadDummit (May 30, 2017)

Time for Chainsaw porn!

Again, this is the carbureted version of the MS261, not the Mtronic version. Computers always seem to cause more trouble than they're worth after a couple of years and I didn't want something else to go wrong. I may be wrong, but I may be right. Either way I'm happy I think!

First I wanted to check to see if the spark arrester screen was plugged up. I didn't know it was in a screwed in spot on the side, so I took off the two visible bolts on the muffler. 











I then tried to pull the muffler off, wiggle it off, or somehow get it to pop free since a video I looked at online said that it was just a pry-up after the bolts came out. Nothing worked. So i took off this cover. It had really neat little quarter turn screws. 










Some snippit video online showed me where this screw was - and that it was connected to the spark arrester. Surprise!










And the arrester was clean as a whistle. Yay!












Having seen that, i still wanted to get that dang muffler off so i could look at the cylinder. I almost never figured it out. Then i did by looking at new OEM muffler replacements and seeing that they didn't come with those little keeper things in them. I took a tiny screwdriver and POP! Pried them both off, easy as pie.


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## GadDummit (May 30, 2017)

Behind that was - you guessed it - more screws. I got those out lickety split. 










With them out the muffler just fell away!









But it had this little gaskety-spacer thing on it. i'm not sure which way it's supposed to go so I made the teethy parts face the muffler. 










Moving on, here's a view of inside the cylinder. Seems to be zero scoring to me. what do ya'll think? 












And a view of the piston and rings. still looking good!


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## GadDummit (May 30, 2017)

Next I wanted to check out the crankshaft so see if it was bent as someone said they are prone to do. I loosed these two nuts here, which are stuck to the cover so that's great. never need to chase them down! brilliant idea!










Then i thought, Oh, probably don't want it starting up in the house....so I removed the spark plug. You just shove a plug tool through the rubber cover around the plug I guess. I did and it worked fine. 










It came out black, but i don't think it's corroded or fouled or anything. It wasn't goopy that's for sure!










That reminds me guys, there's a push-pull switch thing by the spark plug on the right. What's that do and when do I push/pull it? 










Then I watched this part under that captive-nut cover to see if it wiggled or was off center when i pulled the string. It was dead center spinning. More good news!


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## GadDummit (May 30, 2017)

Here's my finger pointing to the push pull thingy that I've never seen before. 










While I had it apart I went ahead and ran my oiler to 100% max oil. I hope this is the oiler screw. it matches the description in a few other threads. Also, mine only turns about a quarter turn both ways.* Is that normal? 
*



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This is the only chain I had. It's a greenie. I put it on. Is the bar and chain both needing to be green or just the chain? Can I just swap to full chisel chains and leave the same bar?


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## GadDummit (May 30, 2017)

With the chain in place i went out to try her out. 





She screamed! It was great. I cut through some silverleaf maple (dry) that was very fast, then through some wet red oak that was also very fast, but she bogged down some working with the stump sections. Oh well, I'm happy. It's at least 100000% faster than my poulon pro, that took over 2 hours to get through the red oak stump! The MS261 did it in about 1 minute flat, HAHA!

And the kids were all happy with the "sawdust" this thing threw out too. Not dust, really, but more like spaghetti strings of awesomeness. This made it a real pleasure to work with for all of us. Heck, we ran so much wood through it that I bent my splitter splitting up the logs haha!

Needless to say, I'm a happy boy!


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## Alpine1 (May 31, 2017)

Good job GadD! The only thing I noticed is that the spark plug seems too black for my tastes... if it's just old, no problem but if it's relatively new that's an indication of a too oily mix. And yes, now you know why Stihls cost more than Poulans...


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## Sean McGillicuddy (May 31, 2017)

That is a decompression valve. Push it in when you want to start the saw. Less pulling power needed. ( I 'm thinking )


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## WoodyIsGoody (Jun 16, 2017)

cd36 said:


> I also don't think the extra oil would seal the rings better any appreciable amount, I can't prove it but I'm also sure whoever told you that can't either.



I agree, more oil doesn't seal the rings better. A good ring/cylinder doesn't leak enough in the tiny time the ring is pressurized (less than 1/200th of a second at 10,000 rpm) to matter. The cylinder wall/ring interface can only hold so much oil and putting more oil in your gas won't change that amount.



> If you're going to mess with the fuel: oil mixture, at the very least retune your carb to run slightly richer. But really 2 stroke engines have been running 50:1 since the 70s, I don't think you're in much immediate threat of it being under oilled.



That's for sure. I've been running 50:1 in my Stihl 026 since the day I bought it in 1997. It get's a real workout because it was my only saw all those years. It's seen it's share of abuse with it's 20" bar buried in 3' stumps going full tilt for 20 minute sessions. I've tried to burn that little saw up but it has more power now than it had after the first 15 tanks over 20 hard use years ago. If 50:1 was not adequate, it would have shown up by now! 

All I've done to it is replace the air filter, fuel pick-up, spark plug, drive sprocket, bar, chains and fuel/oil (50:1). If I had run 30:1 I probably would have replaced the spark plug 5 or 6 times by now and spent a lot more on oil.


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## WoodyIsGoody (Jun 16, 2017)

salecker said:


> Sure they work fine at 50:1
> but if one thing goes bad you don't have any insurance.



They run fine on 70:1. That's your insurance! If you want more insurance, just run the Stihl synthetic oil. Better heat resistance and better lubrication.


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## WoodyIsGoody (Jun 16, 2017)

GadDummit said:


> This is the only chain I had. It's a greenie. I put it on. Is the bar and chain both needing to be green or just the chain? Can I just swap to full chisel chains and leave the same bar?



Yes, you can mix/match, just make sure the bar and chain has matching gauges and the chain matches the pitch of the sprockets.

Thanks for the disassembly photos! Very nice. Although I think the camera is not focused on the cylinder wall so scoring, if it were present, might not be visible. But I assume you checked it visually as well as by photograph. My close vision doesn't have the acuity it did previously so I can often see things in a well focused close-up that I can't see with my naked eye.

Question: Do those two muffler clips need to be tweaked before reinstallation or do they snap right back into place tightly?


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## GadDummit (Jun 16, 2017)

WoodyIsGoody said:


> Question: Do those two muffler clips need to be tweaked before reinstallation or do they snap right back into place tightly?



They just snapped right back into place. I'm not even sure why they're there except maybe to keep wood chips from going down the screw hole and smoking.


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## WoodyIsGoody (Jun 16, 2017)

GadDummit said:


> They just snapped right back into place. I'm not even sure why they're there except maybe to keep wood chips from going down the screw hole and smoking.



Thanks, that makes sense. I thought they held the muffler together but they just keep debris out.


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## salecker (Jun 17, 2017)

So Amsoil is good for 100 to 1 they say...
So save even more money and use that...
Cheapskates


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## WoodyIsGoody (Jun 17, 2017)

salecker said:


> So Amsoil is good for 100 to 1 they say...
> So save even more money and use that...
> Cheapskates



I've never heard Amsoil is good for 100:1? In a Stihl saw? I'm quite certain Stihl doesn't condone that.

But I think I'm missing your point. Are you saying running the manufacturer's recommendation of 50:1 is being a "cheapskate"?


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## salecker (Jun 18, 2017)

WoodyIsGoody said:


> I've never heard Amsoil is good for 100:1? In a Stihl saw? I'm quite certain Stihl doesn't condone that.
> 
> But I think I'm missing your point. Are you saying running the manufacturer's recommendation of 50:1 is being a "cheapskate"?


Yes i am
Oil is cheap,parts aren't.Labor is even more expensive.The only Stihl dealer in the Yukon charges $120 an hour,and i am sure there are similar stories of high labor costs at US dealers.
The only reason manufactures state 50:1 is to pass EPA regs.Same as the jets on new carbs that have limiters or special heads that you aren't supposed to get tools for. EPA regulations forbid dealers from selling tools to tune your saw???Look at the big box store saws for sale,they have a life expectancy stated right on the saw.Why??? because if you use the saw as it is set up,regulated by the EPA.The saw will only last for a fixed time at 50:1 tuned lean.Then toss it.
 But if you remove the limiters and actually put some oil in the gas the saw will run for years with proper maintenance.
 I have a pile of Homeowner scored saws,plastic is still shiny on most of them.
 Up in the north most people are very forgetful,We have a warning system up here,when the leaves turn colors and fall off that means water is going to get hard and we have at least 5 months of freezing temps ahead.Happens every year but 80% of the people that need wood wait till the cold shows up to deal with the wood situation.
 When it gets cold,"our cold" not southern cold. The air gets thinner. effectively leaning out the fuel air mixture.
 Guess what happens next to the 50:1 EPA adjusted saw?So with a few more pennies of oil in the mix at least the saw has a chance to do what it's supposed to do.Cut some wood to keep your ass warm.
 Yes Amsoil has 2 cycle mix that has 100:1 mixing recommendations,and there are others that claim even less in their ratios.I am sure you have heard the term" there's a sucker born every minute."


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## cd36 (Jun 18, 2017)

salecker said:


> Yes i am
> Oil is cheap,parts aren't.Labor is even more expensive.The only Stihl dealer in the Yukon charges $120 an hour,and i am sure there are similar stories of high labor costs at US dealers.
> The only reason manufactures state 50:1 is to pass EPA regs.Same as the jets on new carbs that have limiters or special heads that you aren't supposed to get tools for. EPA regulations forbid dealers from selling tools to tune your saw???Look at the big box store saws for sale,they have a life expectancy stated right on the saw.Why??? because if you use the saw as it is set up,regulated by the EPA.The saw will only last for a fixed time at 50:1 tuned lean.Then toss it.
> But if you remove the limiters and actually put some oil in the gas the saw will run for years with proper maintenance.
> ...


I don't think I ever mentioned money as a factor when it comes to your ratio. I mean I run 91 in all my small equipment even if 87 is all that's recommended, and I'm pretty sure the price difference in 87 vs 91 is way more than the extra oil used. 

Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk


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## WoodyIsGoody (Jun 19, 2017)

salecker said:


> The only reason manufactures state 50:1 is to pass EPA regs.



You're wrong about that. While the EPA did drive the move to lower emissions, cleaner burning and more fuel efficient saws, the 50:1 ratio is the optimum ratio for a well engineered saw designed to run on 50:1. More oil means less HP and more carbon buildup. Excessive carbon buildup on the piston crown and cylinder head leads to higher compression ratios, detonation and, eventually failure. Excessive carbon buildup on the top surface of piston rings can cause cylinder scoring. However, most scoring is caused by over-heating from a lean running condition. And when you add excessive oil to your gas it makes the mixture leaner. A saw running a gas/oil mix of 25:1 is not immune to overheating, running lean or the resulting scoring that happens. Saw engines have been scoring long before the EPA even existed! The bottom line is scoring is prevented by proper tuning and maintenance, not by adding extra oil as "insurance". I've run the piss out of my little Stihl 026, including continuous full power cuts  in big wood, for 20 years never adding a drop more oil than the factory recommended 50:1 and it runs stronger now than when it was freshly broken in. I don't run 50:1 because I'm afraid to spend more money, I run 50:1 because every Stihl dealer I've ever met has cautioned against running a mix with more oil. I live in PNW logging country and these are the dealers that sold the local loggers who cut our majestic towering old growth forests their saws and supplies. I think they know a thing or two about how to treat a saw.




> Look at the big box store saws for sale,they have a life expectancy stated right on the saw.Why??? because if you use the saw as it is set up,regulated by the EPA.The saw will only last for a fixed time at 50:1 tuned lean.Then toss it.



There have been cheap saws long before big box stores existed. Back then saw emissions were not regulated by the EPA. Guess what, cheap saws were always disposable and burned up with greater regularity than they do now, even with the higher oil/fuel ratio that was common in the day. So, if extra oil didn't prevent cheap saws from scoring and self-destructing back then, why do you think it would now? But this thread is not about cheap big box store saws, it's about a Stihl pro class saw. So I'm not sure why you tried to bring that in.




> When it gets cold,"our cold" not southern cold. The air gets thinner. effectively leaning out the fuel air mixture.
> Guess what happens next to the 50:1 EPA adjusted saw?So with a few more pennies of oil in the mix at least the saw has a chance to do what it's supposed to do.Cut some wood to keep your ass warm.



Nope. Cold air is more dense than warm air. That makes it thicker, not thinner. And that is precisely why all Stihl pro saws have a summer winter setting. Stihl instructs that in temps below 10 degrees C the saw should run pre-heated air by opening the winter pre-heat shutter. And in temps below -10 C that the optional intake air pre-heating kit is used. This insures that only pre-heated air from around the cylinder head is supplied to the carb. If you forget to run in winter mode you're just stupid. And if your saw is really running that lean, more oil isn't likely to save it. As I've already pointed out, chainsaws burned up from lean conditions ALL THE TIME before the EPA even existed! One of the more common causes was letting the fuel go stale, hardening into "varnish" inside the carb and restricting fuel flow.

More oil is not the solution.


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## salecker (Jun 19, 2017)

What ever helps you sleep at night...
Yes i mad a mistake in what i wrote about the cold air,it should have been dense air is thicker getting more air into the saw when it's cold,effectively leaning out the saw.Most cheap saws don't have any winter settings.And most homeowners wouldn't know about any winter settings on saws.
 I have been running saws since i was in my teens here.I have never had a saw burn down on me,100's of different saws and 100's of cords cut.
Just pulled apart a clean 445 that i got from a dealers scrap pile,tag on saw...sharpen saw,The shop techs tag...burnt piston.
 No vac or pressure leaks,saw covered by fine sawdust.Piston looks brand new except for the scoring on the exhaust.Mix looks clear no color to speak of,3/4 tank that went into my spliter.
 My diagnosis...
 Dull chain,saw was overheated trying to get forced through the wood,Carb limiters on the card adjusters,but they were probably never touched.Came with a new looking bar,but no chain.Air cleaner plugged .
 I am glad that the owner followed the 50:1 thought,there wasn't any extra oil for insurance saw got hot and lean and now i have a very new looking Husky 455 that i will sell for top dollar after it gets a new piston and new chain.
 I have about $20.00 into it,new piston will be about $50.00 so i should make good money on that saw.
 So since i can't convince you that more oil is better,i will thank you and others for continuing at 50:1.This will keep people like myself in project saws for years to come.In my case the extra money i make i spend on collector saws for my retirement.
 A properly tuned saw with 32:1 will not carbon up.A saw that is running rich and not tuned will carbon up.


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## WoodyIsGoody (Jun 19, 2017)

salecker said:


> I have been running saws since i was in my teens here.I have never had a saw burn down on me,100's of different saws and 100's of cords cut.



I've been running saws since I was a pre-teen and my dad bought a cheap Poulan saw. Instructions said to mix a pint of oil per gallon of fuel. That's 16:1 if you can do the math! That's what we ran, it smoked like crazy! Guess what, that saw died after three years in the middle of limbing up a big ol' Maple. Since then I've only had 1 Homelite (actually not mine but I used it for two years to clear my bosses building site and buck up his firewood) and 2 Stihls running 50:1 and have never burned up another saw!

I've said it before but it bears repeating, scoring is the result of too much heat and more oil is not gonna fix that. I was running alcohol free gas with 16:1 fuel/oil mix when that Poulan's cylinder scored fatally! If 16:1 didn't save it, why do you think 30:1 or 40:1 would?



> Just pulled apart a clean 445 that i got from a dealers scrap pile,tag on saw...sharpen saw,The shop techs tag...burnt piston.
> No vac or pressure leaks,saw covered by fine sawdust.Piston looks brand new except for the scoring on the exhaust.Mix looks clear no color to speak of,3/4 tank that went into my spliter.
> My diagnosis...
> Dull chain,saw was overheated trying to get forced through the wood,Carb limiters on the card adjusters,but they were probably never touched.Came with a new looking bar,but no chain.Air cleaner plugged .
> I am glad that the owner followed the 50:1 thought,there wasn't any extra oil for insurance saw got hot and lean and now i have a very new looking Husky 455 that i will sell for top dollar after it gets a new piston and new chain.



See the mistake you made here?

You just assume the saw would have been fine with more oil. Any saw can burn up when run too lean, too hot, even with double the oil! The problem is excessive heat, not a lack of lubrication. You see, as metal heats up, it changes shape as it expands. Pretty soon the piston doesn't fit the bore. If you think more oil gonna fix that, I've got a bridge to sell you!




> A properly tuned saw with 32:1 will not carbon up.A saw that is running rich and not tuned will carbon up.



All saws collect carbon over their life. Carbon is a combustion by-product even in a properly running saw. The pertinent point is, how fast that carbon collects. In a properly running saw it will be minimal. But nearly doubling the recommended amount of oil will increase carbon build-up. Spark arrestor screens are known points of carbon build-up. And carbon build-up is bad, it doesn't matter if it's from a slightly rich running condition or excessive oil.

But I can see I will never convince you that you are not smarter than all the Stihl engineers who design and test the most durable saws in the world. Or the saw shop employees who service the loggers who clear the gentle giants in the PNW forests.


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## WoodyIsGoody (Jun 19, 2017)

Do you ever wish you had a really good saw shop at your disposal? One that had over 70 years of experience with professional loggers working their saws hard and that was still run by descendants of the original founders? A shop who had a long history of keeping saws running 10's of thousands of hours at full throttle, buried deep in living trees? Saws that can't fail at the critical moment felling a giant tree. A shop with knowledge deep and wide that keeps these loggers and their saws happy, winter, summer, spring and fall? A shop known to hire busted up loggers with decades of real world experience of what works and what doesn't? A shop that would go out of business if it gave bad advice simply to placate the EPA?

If you are tired of taking your saw advice from "seat of the pants Larry", "Joe know it all" or Internet forums where advice ranges from spot on to "you've got to be kidding me", may I introduce you to Madsen's Saw Shop?  This is the cover of their 2006 catalog celebrating their 50th anniversary of serving professional loggers:





The guy in the photo is one of their long-time loyal customers.

Even if you live 1000 miles or more removed from the heart of the Pacific Northwest logging industry, you can take advantage of their vast real world experience tearing down 1000's of hard-working saws and hearing from their owners. Because they share their no-BS information and knowledge and always have. What do the experts at Madsen's Saw Shop have to say about fuel oil ratios in modern pro-class chainsaws?

*"Another octane related item involves mix oil. When oil is mixed with gasoline, the end result is a mixture with lower octane than the gasoline alone. This is one reason it is important to mix according to the manufacturer's specifications. Some people add extra oil figuring they are doing their saw a favor. They are not. This can lower the octane of the mix, plus cause carbon to build up in the combustion chamber and exhaust system. Our advice is to mix according to the specs -- and do it accurately."*

So, who are you going to trust? The people who make the saws or the people who service the saws or "Joe know it all"? Fortunately, two out of three of these sources are giving you the same advice: you are harming your saw by adding extra oil. Measure carefully and mix it to spec. Not a drop more (because it is of no benefit). These guys have no reason to lie. In fact, it would be fatal to their thriving business if their advice didn't work in the real world. You can learn a lot more right here:

http://www.madsens1.com/saw_fuelmix.htm

They also have a wealth of no BS info on everything from Race Saw Preparation, Piston Failure Analysis down to sharpening various kinds of saw chains here:

http://www.madsens1.com/mnu_sawmaint.htm

Read and learn. I would hope this kind of info from an unimpeachable source would end, once and for all, the myth that it's a good idea to add extra oil to your gas but I'm old and wise enough to know there will always be people who think they are smarter than the industry experts. If a little is good, more is better, right?


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## salecker (Jun 20, 2017)

[
Read and learn. I would hope this kind of info from an unimpeachable source would end, once and for all, the myth that it's a good idea to add extra oil to your gas but I'm old and wise enough to know there will always be people who think they are smarter than the industry experts. If a little is good, more is better, right?[/QUOTE]
Please take your own advice and read to learn.


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## WoodyIsGoody (Jun 20, 2017)

> Please take your own advice and read to learn.



Can you be more specific?


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## Sodbuster (Aug 22, 2017)

Woody, do you have any insight on ethanol free fuel versus the 10% blend for our saws? I've heard that the ethanol produces less power.


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## WoodyIsGoody (Aug 22, 2017)

Sodbuster said:


> Woody, do you have any insight on ethanol free fuel versus the 10% blend for our saws? I've heard that the ethanol produces less power.



Ethanol free will make more power and stabilize better (stay fresh a bit longer). Definitely superior. With good fuel management E10 works just fine but I've started running a combination of ethanol free pump gas and canned Moto-mix for extra insurance (and because I don't drain the fuel).

My 026 ran great for 20 years on nothing but E10 and 50:1 Stihl Ultra but I did need to replace the fuel pick-up in year 15 or 16. It had a crack that was probably the long term effects of E10 sitting in the tank. But I've also heard of that happening to people who have never run E10 so it's hard to say. The most important thing is that the fuel is fresh and properly mixed with a high quality oil.

But don't take my word for it, read the link about fuel I provided above to Madsen's Saw Shop. They have seen it all and a sample size of thousands and thousands is better than any one of us can provide.


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