# Attic insulation next step to properly wood heated home?



## bsa0021 (Dec 10, 2009)

Since I only have 7-8" of blown in insulation in the attic I'm thinking this would be my next logical step to getting warmer temps in the rooms farthest from the stove.  Moving air flow with fans aready in place but when temps dip under 10 degrees the temperature difference is greater than I would like. So, looking at the HD site they don't recommend rolls of insulation over blown in insulation. I would rather use rolls. Any insulation professionals care to respond?


----------



## westkywood (Dec 10, 2009)

I blew insulation over roll insulation. I dont know why you would rather put down rolls. It's cheap to blow insualtion and it seals up all the cracks.


----------



## bsa0021 (Dec 10, 2009)

westkywood said:
			
		

> I blew insulation over roll insulation. I dont know why you would rather put down rolls. It's cheap to blow insualtion and it seals up all the cracks.



It's easier to move when work needs done in attic.


----------



## edporch (Dec 10, 2009)

Roll insulation, besides being easier to move if work needs to be done also is less dustier in the house.
My heating and cooling man told me that he commonly sees bits of infiltration from blown in attic insulation that increases dust in the house.

This is in part what helped me decide to put in rolls of R30 insulation over the existing roll insulation in my own attic just a month or so ago.

Also, Owens-Corning has done a run of unfaced wrapped R30 fiberglass insulation.
Reference number E81
I used the 15 in x 9 in x 25 ft lengths of it in my attic.

The light breathable wrapping made it a pleasure to work with because the fiberglass didn't come in contact with my skin, and didn't put a bunch of fibers in the air.

The catch if it is, Owens-Corning only made it available at Home Depot or Lowes.

It's made a noticeable difference in heat retention in my house.


----------



## Corey (Dec 10, 2009)

The problem with rolls over blown-in is compression/settling of the blown-in.  Once you compress the fluff, you loose R value.  One positive of blown in is the ability to add more insulation over the stove room and taper it off over the rest of the house.  This would be the most economical and give you the most R value over the hottest room - which is where you need it anyway.  Of course if you have the funds, blowing a thick layer over the whole thing is even better.


----------



## Highbeam (Dec 10, 2009)

The blown in will be done in a half hour where rolling out and cutting the rolls is extremely labor intensive in comparison. Consider the edges of the attic near the eaves. There is a taper in that area and you can either stop short with the rolls or cut each one like a wedge. Ugh. 

Crazy to think that the blown in insulation will somehow migrate to the living space. Don't you guys have ceilings?


----------



## billb3 (Dec 10, 2009)

If your blown in is up to the top of the joists at  6 to 8 inches, you're only going to get "compression" of the loose fill at the center between the joists. The batts sure as heck won't be compressing the joists. Not a good idea to use faced in layers.


My ceilings have numerous penetrations. They're all caulked now, but at one time they weren't, as are many homes.
Not everyone has joint compounded sheet-rock, either.
Some people have blown in insultion in the walls and walls have penetrations, too.


----------



## doubledip (Dec 10, 2009)

If I were in the position I would think about using foam, not only in the attic space but the walls too. Another area where there is a lot of air infiltration is the rim joist, whether its a crawl or basement it should be insulated.  Also caulking around windows and joints is a plus.


----------



## DBoon (Dec 11, 2009)

Don't forget to seal the attic hatch really, really well, and insulate that hatch everywhere to the R evel of the rest of the insulation in the attic.


----------



## Fi-Q (Dec 11, 2009)

I just blow 20 in my attic...... I think you'Re best bet would be blow some extra... but putting rolls won't hurt if it'S the way you want to go.....


----------



## bsa0021 (Dec 11, 2009)

All good information. Originally, I was thinking of throwing some rolls of insulation over the rooms that were on the back of the house were the heat from the wood burner is furthest from. My thought was if I can retain the heat in the rooms furthest from the stove I might get those temps closer to the stove room. 
My blown in insulation has settled and I didn't want a second layer to settle. When it comes time to do my lighting for the kitchen it might be hard to fluff the blown insulation back to it's original configuration.


----------



## CarbonNeutral (Dec 11, 2009)

edporch said:
			
		

> Roll insulation, besides being easier to move if work needs to be done also is less dustier in the house.
> My heating and cooling man told me that he commonly sees bits of infiltration from blown in attic insulation that increases dust in the house.
> 
> This is in part what helped me decide to put in rolls of R30 insulation over the existing roll insulation in my own attic just a month or so ago.
> ...



I bought lots about a month ago - HD had halved the price of the unfaced to $10 a pop


----------



## CarbonNeutral (Dec 11, 2009)

Highbeam said:
			
		

> The blown in will be done in a half hour where rolling out and cutting the rolls is extremely labor intensive in comparison. Consider the edges of the attic near the eaves. There is a taper in that area and you can either stop short with the rolls or cut each one like a wedge. Ugh.
> 
> Crazy to think that the blown in insulation will somehow migrate to the living space. Don't you guys have ceilings?



Not that labor intensive - 40x25 attic only took a few hours


----------



## Highbeam (Dec 11, 2009)

CarbonNeutral said:
			
		

> Highbeam said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It would depend a LOT on the truss system in your attic, the height of the roof, and all of the obstructions.


----------



## CarbonNeutral (Dec 11, 2009)

Highbeam said:
			
		

> CarbonNeutral said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Completely fair point.


----------



## hossthehermit (Dec 12, 2009)

Kinda like the sig of a guy in an outboard motor forum - "any oil is better than no oil at all" Same applies to insulation


----------



## Huskurdu (Dec 22, 2009)

Highbeam said:
			
		

> Crazy to think that the blown in insulation will somehow migrate to the living space. Don't you guys have ceilings?



I don't care who you......that's funny!

Seriously though, the last statement was probably the most important one.  It's just a really good idea to have as much insulation as your application needs.  I'm putting in 12" of cellulose on top of 2 layers of fg rolled insulation that is squashed down to about 6 inches.  I have no idea how thick it was when they installed it but 12" of cellulose is going to make a HUGE difference.  That's my hope anyway....
BTW, I got the 2000 cu ft of cellulose (84 bags) from 84 Lumber for about $200-250 less than HD or Lowes.  That includes the rental of the blower ($50/day) and the delivery of the cellulose and blower ($80)!  Not to shabby I thought.
np


----------



## stephenmoore (Dec 22, 2009)

My advice would be to move all of your wife's good clothes, especially if your bedroom closet is open to the ceiling. Speaking from personal experience it's tough to vaccum cellulose off seqined dresses ! R value or not that job cost me a lot!


----------



## Sting (Dec 22, 2009)

What are you supposed to do with the old knob an tube wiring?  You cannot pull like a fat worm out of the ground, and your not supposed to cover it with blow in insulation?


----------



## stephenmoore (Dec 22, 2009)

I cut it out section by section after it has been disconnected of course from the source. Who told you to leave it in ?


----------



## ihookem (Dec 22, 2009)

Blown in is half the price and is easier to blow it in every crack and crevice. Fiberglass doesn't do that. Cellulose doesn't loose r value as the temps drop. Not many know that fiberglass looses r value as it gets colder. I just built my house and we put 20" of cellulose for a good r 60. Yes it looses r value if you step on it, so does fiberglass. The walls have 4" of foam and the house is so tight I have to open windows a little and run a bathroom fan once in a while. To each his own, ihookem.


----------



## stephenmoore (Dec 23, 2009)

Hey Ihookem, Are you running an air exchanger in your house too ? Did you use open cell or closed cell foam ?


----------



## Sting (Dec 23, 2009)

stephenmoore said:
			
		

> I cut it out section by section after it has been disconnected of course from the source. Who told you to leave it in ?



Who told me to take it out????  it still works well.


----------



## Jackpine Savage (Dec 23, 2009)

It would be worth your time to eliminate all air infiltration between the living space and the attic before you add more insulation. Use spray foam to seal holes around wiring, electrical boxes, plumbing, etc. Here is a great book on insulating: http://www.amazon.com/Insulate-Weat...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1261573256&sr=1-1


----------



## SolarAndWood (Dec 23, 2009)

CarbonNeutral said:
			
		

> HD had halved the price of the unfaced to $10 a pop



Forgot to thank you for that tip.  4 rolls of that unfaced R30 and a couple cans of greatstuff made a world of difference in keeping our lower walkout level warmer and more airtight.  $50 and a couple hours well spent.  I'll easily save that in wood processing this year.


----------



## btuser (Dec 23, 2009)

I've got a trussed attic and I still went with r30 batts.  I've been in too many attics, rolling around in blown-in insulation.  I friggin' hate  the stuff.


----------



## bsa0021 (Dec 24, 2009)

I'm going to go with r30 rolls on top of my blown in insulation. Pretty much anything I put up there will be better than what I have now. Thanks for the Info!


----------



## ihookem (Dec 24, 2009)

Yes, Stephenmoore, I have 4" of closed cell foam in the walls. I have the rim joists sprayed in the basement also. That really helps alot. In the attic between the 8" energy saver trusses I have it foamed shut except for the vents. between the trusses. I also have 20" of cellulose in the attic. I do not have an air exchanger in the house yet. I might have to get one though. I do have outside air intake going to the cold air duct in the basement and don't think it's enough. My windows get moister on them real fast and front door is starting to stick. I have been running the bathroom fans  every day for a while and that helps. Later, ihookem.


----------



## benjamin (Dec 24, 2009)

I'm with Jackpine, before you think about adding more insulation, you want to pull the existing insulation back and caulk or foam every penetration through your cieling, including where the drywall butts against the top plate on all walls.  This will do more for you than adding insulation, especially fiberglass which filters air instead of sealing it.   

On quick and dirty jobs, I've sometimes put down a vapor barrier over the existing 2x4-6" cieling joists and insulation and then added cellulose on top. Not kosher to some, but as long as your vapor barrier is within the interior 1/3 of the wall you're good.  That's method is only for old impossible to seal plaster homes, if you have clean drywall it's much easier to get an effective seal.  Obviously that's only for homes with a clear span in the attic, no trusses, and knock the chimneys down first, oops did I really say that here?


----------



## stephenmoore (Dec 24, 2009)

ihookem said:
			
		

> Yes, Stephenmoore, I have 4" of closed cell foam in the walls. I have the rim joists sprayed in the basement also. That really helps alot. In the attic between the 8" energy saver trusses I have it foamed shut except for the vents. between the trusses. I also have 20" of cellulose in the attic. I do not have an air exchanger in the house yet. I might have to get one though. I do have outside air intake going to the cold air duct in the basement and don't think it's enough. My windows get moister on them real fast and front door is starting to stick. I have been running the bathroom fans  every day for a while and that helps. Later, ihookem.


Yeah, I hear you, foam is the way to go. I would definitely add an air exchanger to the equation, it will really help with the moisture in the winter. My house is 50 years old and I foamed it all and the air exchanger pulls a lot of moisture out and keeps fresh air coming in which is nice, I notice my allergies seem better too. Good luck.


----------



## stephenmoore (Dec 24, 2009)

Sting said:
			
		

> What are you supposed to do with the old knob an tube wiring?  You cannot pull like a fat worm out of the ground, and your not supposed to cover it with blow in insulation?


Hey Sting,
I didn't realize your system was active. I think you are not supposed to cover knob and tube with any type of insulation. Do you have any plans to replace it? I saw an add at an electrical supplier last year for a company still selling all of the old porcelain fixtures. It was quite an art installing that stuff. Having removed lots of it, it's always still tough and solid all these years later. I wonder if our current building methods will stand up to time as well. In Canada the electrical code states that any panel upgrade or signifigant re wire requires the removal of old knob and tube. Merry Christmas.


----------



## ihookem (Dec 24, 2009)

Stephenmoore, I thought a few weeks ago why my son is having a hard time breathing and it dawned on me about allergies. He has them and athsma. The breathing problems stopped until I moved into a house that was foamed. Since the windows started getting moisture on them he has been having some problems.


----------



## stephenmoore (Dec 24, 2009)

Yeah, I know this is only anecdotal, but my four year old sleeps better at night and hardly ever gets sick since we got our house up to spec. Fresh air or a steady supply of it is hard to beat. Makes sense that you'd need one as the foam stops almost all air movement. just gotta remember to clean the filters every summer.


----------



## CarbonNeutral (Dec 24, 2009)

SolarAndWood said:
			
		

> CarbonNeutral said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You're welcome - my upstairs has been fantastic - no heat up there so far this year with the stove. It is noticeably warmer - temp just doesn't drop off, even in the early hours as the stove temps drop. The GreatStuff is key as well..


----------



## Sting (Dec 25, 2009)

stephenmoore said:
			
		

> Sting said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I don't believe its prudent either with active knob and tube -- but that's what I have in this project. I was going to get an electric leaf vac and pull the blow in fluff away - a section at a time ( I have to pull up the attic floor bards to do it )  - spray about one inch of DIY foam down - then replace the fluff back over.

I bought the house with an nice 200 amp service and the kitchen rewired - but there is a 1 inch conduit from that to the original tube fuse center - and there, the modern wire is simply soldered to the old to run the remainder of this little place.

So yes I currently have active wire buried in blow in insulation - and its been like that for more than 20 years. 

Suggestions???


----------



## stephenmoore (Dec 25, 2009)

Sting,
I guess I would take the long monotonous route of removing and re doing the wiring. I suppose it's been that way for a long time but I'd still be a little nervous. Have you had any trouble with insurance ? I know it's existing but I wonder if they would ever find a way to weasel out of your policy coverage because of it being buried?  There is no fast or easy solution but with it gone you could do a safe and thorough job of the insulating.


----------



## btuser (Dec 29, 2009)

Knob and tube is one of the safest wiring methods ever devised, problem being its old, old old.   Think of the high voltage over your heads on the poles, its all pretty much knob and tube.

That being said, that old wiring should come out, and romex incorporating a ground should be installed.


----------



## s10truggy (Jan 4, 2010)

stephenmoore said:
			
		

> ihookem said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



If you have moisture problems in a well insulated house your HVAC is over-sized not running and taking moisture out of the air.
If you have 2 units run one at a different setting so it will do most of the work and run longer.
you will not need an air exchanger unless your house is very small, even a foam house will leak air from windows and doors, fart fans, walking in and out.


Cellulose spray will out preform fiberglass in every application, batts are like using a blanket with holes in it LOL


----------



## stephenmoore (Jan 5, 2010)

What do you mean by running two units ? Fans or HRV's ? I don't think I've ever heard of a house with two HRV's. What do you mean by a small house, 1200 sq.feet ?


----------



## Estarrio (Jan 30, 2010)

I lose a lot of heat to my non-insulated drop down attic stairs.  I live in a split with no garage, so I need to be able to access the attic for storage.

I had been thinking about the attic tent as a solution...has anyone tried this?  Is there a cheaper way to insulate/seal the stairs while still being able to access the attic all winter?


----------



## woodsmaster (Mar 15, 2010)

Highbeam said:
			
		

> The blown in will be done in a half hour where rolling out and cutting the rolls is extremely labor intensive in comparison. Consider the edges of the attic near the eaves. There is a taper in that area and you can either stop short with the rolls or cut each one like a wedge. Ugh.
> 
> Crazy to think that the blown in insulation will somehow migrate to the living space. Don't you guys have ceilings?



+ 1 on the cielings


----------

