# Questions about a stove



## frankinri (Oct 8, 2013)

What do you think a used Vermont castings model 2478 stove is worth? I'm revisiting getting a stove for my house. The house is 1040 sq ft


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## 930dreamer (Oct 8, 2013)

What are they asking for the stove?


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## frankinri (Oct 8, 2013)

930dreamer said:


> What are they asking for the stove?



900 with a rust stain on top from a pot overflowing on it.


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## 930dreamer (Oct 8, 2013)

I'm not sure where your located but, with fall/winter closing in prices will be on the rise. I'm cheap so I'd counter offer.


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## frankinri (Oct 8, 2013)

Looks like this is a non cat stove. What is the benefit of a cat stove? This stove says it will burn for 10 hours. Are cat stoves burning longer?


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## 930dreamer (Oct 8, 2013)

Cat stoves burn the smoke before it can go up the piping= cleaner air.


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## begreen (Oct 8, 2013)

Walk or run away from this one. If you need more info read about tradergordo's experience with the neverburn stove. A Dutchwest Large catalytic stove would be a better investment.


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## frankinri (Oct 9, 2013)

Looks like the large is rated for up to 2400 sq ft. Would the small be better for me? I have 1040 sq ft.


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## frankinri (Oct 9, 2013)

Also is the only benefit of a cat stove cleaner air? Will it also burn longer or provide more heat given the same wood load in a non cat stove?


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## begreen (Oct 9, 2013)

A cat stove will burn at a low rate cleaner than a conventional stove. This is good for milder weather and climates. The Dutchwest 2461 (large) is rated for *up to* 1600 sq ft.. The Extra-large is rated up to 2400 sq ft. I think the 2461 is the right size for your spot if you live in New England. A Woodstock Keystone is another cat stove that would work well.

This is not the only stove that will work there are a lot of ~ 2 cu ft cat and non-cat stoves out there in cast iron, steel and soapstone. To make better suggestions tell us more about the house. What height ceilings? one or two story? open floor plan or smaller closed off rooms?


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## frankinri (Oct 9, 2013)

begreen said:


> A cat stove will burn at a low rate cleaner than a conventional stove. This is good for milder weather and climates. The Dutchwest 2461 (large) is rated for *up to* 1600 sq ft.. The Extra-large is rated up to 2400 sq ft. I think the 2461 is the right size for your spot if you live in New England. A Woodstock Keystone is another cat stove that would work well.
> 
> This is not the only stove that will work there are a lot of ~ 2 cu ft cat and non-cat stoves out there in cast iron, steel and soapstone. To make better suggestions tell us more about the house. What height ceilings? one or two story? open floor plan or smaller closed off rooms?



Ok so I should look for a stove rated for double my footage because of my location. I understand that the cat stoves burn cleaner but it's still unclear to me if they produce more heat or longer burn times given the same amount of wood in a non-cat stove. This older post has a floor plan in it. Sorry I cannot grab it and put it on this post cause I'm using my cell phone. Need-some-help-selecting-a-stove-for-my-home
https://www.hearth.com/talk/index.php?threads/Need-some-help-selecting-a-stove-for-my-home.113915/

In this older post I was entertaining the idea of putting the stove downstairs. I've changed my mind on that plan I don't want to have to cut vents in the floor and I don't think that heat will make it upstairs as many had said in the other post. I was hoping to put it in the kitchen against the wall. The only reason I'm not sure if I can is because it would be connecting into the short side of the chimney.


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## begreen (Oct 9, 2013)

The area heated ratings are the maximums not the minimums. The 2461 is 1.6x your area. The minimum is set by how you control the fire and how often you heat. In mild weather you might just have a small evening fire and let the stove go out. Cat stoves usually are able to extend burn times due to the ability to burn a low fire cleanly. They don't produce more heat. When it is cold out and the stove is being pushed the cat has little advantage.

How tall will the chimney be that the stove is connecting to?


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## frankinri (Oct 9, 2013)

begreen said:


> The area heated ratings are the maximums not the minimums. The 2461 is 1.6x your area. The minimum is set by how you control the fire and how often you heat. In mild weather you might just have a small evening fire and let the stove go out. Cat stoves usually are able to extend burn times due to the ability to burn a low fire cleanly. They don't produce more heat. When it is cold out and the stove is being pushed the cat has little advantage.
> 
> How tall will the chimney be that the stove is connecting to?



It goes from the basement all the way up through to the roof. Where it connects on the first floor to the roof I would estimate would be around 10 to 15 feet from the connection point to the top of the chimney. I was just wondering if the pipe can be inserted into the short side of the chimney?


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## begreen (Oct 9, 2013)

That gets more tricky. There needs to be no air leaks below the stove thimble. That means no other open takeoffs and the cleanout door is gasket sealed tight. There is a huge difference between 10 and 15 ft. which is it? Most modern stove are going to require 16'. Introducing a couple 90 turns reduces the draft, so the chimney may need to be extended if draft is poor.


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## frankinri (Oct 9, 2013)

begreen said:


> That gets more tricky. There needs to be no air leaks below the stove thimble. That means no other open takeoffs and the cleanout door is gasket sealed tight. There is a huge difference between 10 and 15 ft. which is it? Most modern stove are going to require 16'. Introducing a couple 90 turns reduces the draft, so the chimney may need to be extended if draft is poor.



I'm not exactly sure would have to measure. Also I'm not sure how high off the floor the pipe will enter the wall. There is currently no opening to the chimney on the first floor it would have to be installed. Also when we talk about there being an opening below the first floor I was under the impression that the stovepipe would have to enter the chimney and go all the way up out the top of the chimney. This would be completely sealed. Or are you suggesting that the pipe enters the chimney and does not go all the way up to the top? To be clear the chimney is completely unused at this point. It was previously used for an oil furnace which is no longer in the house.


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## begreen (Oct 9, 2013)

Sounds like you are referring to another thread. That gets confusing for my late at night brain. 
If it is an 8x8 tile lined chimney in very good condition you may be able to install without a liner. That said, a full liner sized to the stove is going to provide the best safety and performance.


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## frankinri (Oct 9, 2013)

begreen said:


> Sounds like you are referring to another thread. That gets confusing for my late at night brain.
> If it is an 8x8 tile lined chimney in very good condition you may be able to install without a liner. That said, a full liner sized to the stove is going to provide the best safety and performance.



Sorry I'm a bit confused too. I really need to get inside of the thing and check it. I think it has a metal lining from the furnace. I will probably go with the full liner because I don't like to spend time and money only to have inadequate performance. If it is a full liner installed I don't have to worry about sealing up the cleanouts and all that right? I think I remember hearing somewhere that with cat stoves it's important to make sure the chimney pipe is correct or the stove will not work properly, I guess this is what you're referring to.


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## begreen (Oct 9, 2013)

Correct. We need to know what you are starting out with. That means the inner dimensions of the current chimney, its condition and height from a known point, say the floor of main level of the house. If this chimney gets a full stainless liner with a tee capped off at the base then yes, the sealing of the cleanout of the original chimney doesn't matter. Some stoves breath easier than others. In non cat stoves this is usually a factor of the size of the secondary manifold and the number of turns it makes in the stove.


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## MDFisherman (Oct 11, 2013)

begreen said:


> A cat stove will burn at a low rate cleaner than a conventional stove. This is good for milder weather and climates. The Dutchwest 2461 (large) is rated for *up to* 1600 sq ft.. The Extra-large is rated up to 2400 sq ft. I think the 2461 is the right size for your spot if you live in New England. A Woodstock Keystone is another cat stove that would work well.


 
Does the cat stove do anything for creosote build up in the chimney/flue piping?


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## begreen (Oct 11, 2013)

Dry wood and and a warm flue are the key to preventing creosote buildup.


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## frankinri (Oct 14, 2013)

Okay I got a look at the chimney its block with some type of liner where the oil furnace was piped into it. I just cant tell what the lining is. Does it matter what type of liner it has now if I plan to pipe the stove up and out? What does it cost to to install a stove? I attached some images of the chimney. I'm wondering if I should just use the current chimney without pipe to save money?


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## begreen (Oct 14, 2013)

Definitely add a stainless liner to connect the stove to. It's better to save lives than money.


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## frankinri (Oct 14, 2013)

begreen said:


> Definitely add a stainless liner to connect the stove to. It's better to save lives than money.



Good point. What type of pipe should I install? I know you said stainless but it looks like there is single double triple wall and I'm a little confused


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## begreen (Oct 14, 2013)

Measure up the ID of the interior flue passage. And figure out the distance between the hole and the top of the chimney. Then look up chimney liner kits at Rockford, ChimneyLiner Depot, Northline Express, etc.. You may be able to drop a rigid liner down if all is clear with no mortar blobs and well aligned. That's a nice way to go if it will fit. 

http://www.rockfordchimneysupply.com/
http://www.chimneylinerdepot.com/
http://www.northlineexpress.com/chimney/chimney-pipe-stove-pipe/chimney-liner.html


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## frankinri (Oct 15, 2013)

begreen said:


> Measure up the ID of the interior flue passage. And figure out the distance between the hole and the top of the chimney. Then look up chimney liner kits at Rockford, ChimneyLiner Depot, Northline Express, etc.. You may be able to drop a rigid liner down if all is clear with no mortar blobs and well aligned. That's a nice way to go if it will fit.
> 
> http://www.rockfordchimneysupply.com/
> http://www.chimneylinerdepot.com/
> http://www.northlineexpress.com/chimney/chimney-pipe-stove-pipe/chimney-liner.html



What's the advantage of going with a rigid over a smooth walled flexible? Still not sure how all of this will be installed with a clean out and the inlet for the stove. I say this because that's all in the basement. Upstairs where I plan to install, the chimney is covered with finished drywall walls. What must be put in place to allow the stove pipe to go through the wall? The floor is ceramic tile, is this ok? Will the walls need to be covered because they are just drywall?


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## begreen (Oct 15, 2013)

Rigid is much heavier gauge pipe. It can take a licking and still be ticking. You still may need to transition to flex at the damper . The hearth requirements vary with the stove. Some are ember protection only and others need substantial hearth insulation.


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## fossil (Oct 15, 2013)

If you're installing the appliance upstairs, and accessing this existing chimney is a bother (which it will be), is it possible for you to just go straight up & out through the house with an all new metal flue/chimney?

(If I've mis-read what your intentions are for the appliance installation, please disregard and forgive me.)


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## fossil (Oct 15, 2013)

Your questions about the floor and the walls...the answer is a resounding YES...these will have to be addressed to ensure a safe installation.


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## frankinri (Oct 16, 2013)

fossil said:


> If you're installing the appliance upstairs, and accessing this existing chimney is a bother (which it will be), is it possible for you to just go straight up & out through the house with an all new metal flue/chimney?
> 
> (If I've mis-read what your intentions are for the appliance installation, please disregard and forgive me.)
> 
> View attachment 114639



There is also an attic above the room here. Plus I would then have another pipe in the attic and another hole in the roof. I like the idea of using the chimney for a cleaner install because it's already there. Plus it's in the middle of the house and I think this would be the best place for the install.


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## frankinri (Oct 16, 2013)

fossil said:


> Your questions about the floor and the walls...the answer is a resounding YES...these will have to be addressed to ensure a safe installation.



Ceramic tile on the floor is not sufficient? What would have to be put on the walls and ceiling?


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## fossil (Oct 16, 2013)

frankinri said:


> Ceramic tile on the floor is not sufficient? What would have to be put on the walls and ceiling?



That all depends on the stove.  Clearance and hearth requirements are specified in the manufacturer's installation instructions.


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## begreen (Oct 16, 2013)

Before proceeding read a few articles on installation, passing through a drywall wall, hearth design and clearances.

You will find articles on this topic by clicking on the link in the top menu bar.



Here are some to start with:
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/planning_and_cost_liners/
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/passing_a_chimney
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/wood_stove_clearances_installing_it_safely


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