# 2022 Garden Thread



## DuaeGuttae

I transplanted onion seedlings yesterday:  Red Creole, Texas Early White, and Texas Legend (yellow).  I watered before and after, but I wanted to get them in because we had a chance of showers overnight, and we did end up with a quarter inch of rain.  We’ve been very dry, so it gave a little boost to my rain tanks which are getting low.  We could certainly use more.

Pictured below are the yellow onions.  The red and white are in separate beds.  These are all short day types because of how far south we are.  I hope they’ll be bulbing up in May.  I’m very thankful that we were given these extra raised beds last year.  It’s so nice to have more room to plant and not have to worry about taking up too much space for spring crops.


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## clancey

How high are those beds and how were the beds given to you--don't understand but it sure does look nice and getting ready to bloom in the spring--yes---or maybe sprout up...thanks for sharing..clancey


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## DuaeGuttae

clancey said:


> How high are those beds and how were the beds given to you--don't understand but it sure does look nice and getting ready to bloom in the spring--yes---or maybe sprout up...thanks for sharing..clancey



I think the beds are about 12 inches; they are higher than the ones they we built ourselves with 10-inch lumber. 
Here’s an excerpt from last year’s thread when my husband and I had just finished setting them up.  They are now fenced with ollas and trellises.     The excerpt describes how we got them (not the actual labor involved, which was pretty intense).  The picture shows the four new beds with our old garden space in the back.  It was a significant increase to my garden space, which is why I’m able to plant more onions this year.

Excerpt from spring 2021:

We had new neighbors move in down the street recently. My five year old and I walked over one day last week to introduce ourselves and to offer them some garden plants since I knew that the previous owners had left behind some large raised beds. It turns out that they aren’t gardeners and had other plans for that space, so our garden space is going to be expanded with free raised beds. (We also recently got 98 feet of good fencing for free and we got some thinner wire fence with the beds as well.).Tomorrow I’ll begin the process of my mini-hugelkultur for the beds. It will take a while to build the soil, but I’m very excited to have more space to rotate crops in the future and not have to worry so much about fitting everything in that I want to grow.


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## EatenByLimestone

We're in deep freeze for a couple months yet.    Basil and aloe are growing.     In a few months I'll start the tomatoes.


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## clancey

I hope that Dan Freeman comes back on this garden thread  for I am very interested in that hydroponic gardening and his plants just looked beautiful  and would like some more information on that process from someone who actually has a garden...Sorry to say I can no longer burn wood in my stove for some people are allergic to it and I am one of them...I am in a running battle right now that is not very pleasant but I am improving each day...Maybe I will be able to burn those organic logs that have the natural substances that they are made from instead of the chemicals..In the meanwhile I am glad that you have this garden thread because I really liked planting that one tomato plant and will plant maybe a few more plants this Spring if I do not move...just wanted you to know...clancey


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## Dan Freeman

clancey said:


> I hope that Dan Freeman comes back on this garden thread  for I am very interested in that hydroponic gardening and his plants just looked beautiful  and would like some more information on that process from someone who actually has a garden...Sorry to say I can no longer burn wood in my stove for some people are allergic to it and I am one of them...I am in a running battle right now that is not very pleasant but I am improving each day...Maybe I will be able to burn those organic logs that have the natural substances that they are made from instead of the chemicals..In the meanwhile I am glad that you have this garden thread because I really liked planting that one tomato plant and will plant maybe a few more plants this Spring if I do not move...just wanted you to know...clancey


I'm here, Clancey. What would you like to know about the hydroponics? I only got into it last year and am far from being any expert. I made my set-up based on a website I found where this guy was doing it in his apartment. He has an area on his website with directions and materials list to build one. I followed his plan. 









						Simple Greens Hydroponics
					

Welcome to Simple Greens Hydroponics! Hydroponics as simple and fruitful as possible. Our mission is to make hydroponic gardening accessible to anyone.




					www.simplegreenshydroponics.com
				




He also has a YouTube channel with videos.



			https://www.youtube.com/c/SimpleGreensHydroponics/videos


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## clancey

Well I am so glad and that web site I am really going to get into and find out a few things especially for a beginner gardener--I only "ever" had "one" tomato plant and "my" with my special food --it took off---just too many tomato's for me--lol...Of course I babied it...when the wind was strong I put a cage around it--and when it was to hail I put a trash can or table over it----things like that--lol..Thanks for that address...and so glad that this garden thread is started again and these food growers are so interesting with their "ideas" and "cookery"--great...thanks...clancey


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## Dobish

Our lime and Lemon tree are blooming, and our Basil we brought in from the garden last year is still going strong. We have plans to expand with 1 more bed, and maybe do a row of corn out back....


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## begreen

We still have chard, carrots, and kale coming from the garden. I need to get lettuce started soon. I ordered cucumber and tomato seeds yesterday. We're getting down to the last of the 2021 crop of tomatoes. There is one more tray left in the greenhouse. The lemons are ripening in the there too and I just got a nice Bearrs Lime plant from someone who is moving out of state.


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## EatenByLimestone

Dobish said:


> Our lime and Lemon tree are blooming, and our Basil we brought in from the garden last year is still going strong. We have plans to expand with 1 more bed, and maybe do a row of corn out back....


You're going to want more rows than that.    Corn is wind pollinated.   A fat square or rectangle would be better than a long thin row or 2.


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## begreen

Yes, do at least 2 or 3 rows. I've done well with 2 rows x 14 ft in our beds. 3 rows would be better, but each bed is only 4 ft wide. Pollination has been good so far, 10yrs growing in this system.


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## DuaeGuttae

We have a couple of outdoor lemons and a lime that I’m trying to figure out whether I need to protect later on today before a sudden and severe cold front comes in.  We’ll have cold and ice tomorrow during the day and temperatures as low as 22 tomorrow night.

@Dobish, I don’t know if this article about planting corn in hills might be helpful to you, but it’s one that‘s at least written by people who actually do what they describe.  I’ve used the hill idea before and plan to use it around my ollas in a new raised bed this year. 






						Growing corn using the hill method - Our Stoney Acres
					

How to grow corn in a small garden? Growing corn using the hill method is a simple way to grow small amounts of corn in a small space.




					ourstoneyacres.com
				




@begreen, would you please share more details on how you space corn in your raised bed? I’ve been sketching out some garden plans in the last couple of days, and this might help me.


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## begreen

I would definitely protect the lemon and lime. Wrap them with some remay fabric or burlap. 

I plant our corn in 2 rows in rotation in our 4'x14' beds. Each row is 12" inboard from the outside edge and 2 feet apart. The plants are spaced about 8" apart because that is the drip irrigation T tape spacing. Yes, that is close, but we get a pretty good crop. 12" would be better. Weak plants are thinned out. I plant 1 or 2 squash plants between the rows, typically butternut or delicata. This year I am going to try adding some bean plants too, just to see what happens. Normally we grow Sugar Buns corn.


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## DuaeGuttae

Thanks, @begreen , for the corn information.  I’m considering how to plot my 4 x 10 raised bed.  It will be a little different because I’ll work around my ollas.  Are you thinking of doing pole or bush beans with the corn?  I’ve heard that pole beans will pull down sweet corn because it’s not as tall or sturdy as field corn.  

I spent a couple of hours outside this afternoon rigging coverings and frost cloth.  I put an old doghouse over the lime tree that is smaller this year due to last winter’s freeze.  Our lemon that had the doghouse in February (and a poultry brooding lamp) didn’t die back at all, and it has grown by leaps and bounds this year.  It’s over my head now (though the top got burned by a surprise hard freeze at the new year), so it needed a different method of protection.  I rigged a rebar and polypipe support on that one and got some frost cloth clamped all around with rocks to hold the edges down.  Our second lemon had no lightbulb for heat in February and died to the ground.  It looks as though the shoots that grew this summer are true, though, and so it just got a solid pot to cover it.  That was the easy one.

I also laid frost cloth over all four onion beds, and my five year old used his little wheelbarrow to bring me chunks of limestone to hold down the edges.  I know onions can take cold, but I figure they haven’t had a chance to acclimate to winter yet.  It’s been warm here.  It was 76 degrees today, and I was wearing a t-shirt and shorts while protecting plants and hauling firewood to get ready for tomorrow.   I also put a pot over the artichoke that lost a lot of leaves during the last freeze but has been growing back from the center.  I figured it wouldn’t stand another one.


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## DuaeGuttae

During our cold nights and mornings when my plants were covered up, I spent some time trying to figure out a drawing program on our computer to make some new garden templates.  My daughter had made me some, but then her program had problems.  I’m not familiar with drawing programs, but I managed to make acceptable templates for planning purposes.  Edges are a little wonky, but they are in my garden, too.  The terra cotta circles represent my many ollas, the underground terra cotta pots that I use as water reservoirs.


This first one is what we call the main garden.  There’s a large asparagus bed in there, too, that’s not shown on the plan because the plantings won’t change.  The long beds are two feet wide and from ten to twenty feet long.  The squares in the middle are 4 x 4 and have my garlic in them now.  One variety in each bed: Shilla (hard neck), Viola Francese and Blanco Spagnolo (soft necks) and Labera Purple (Creole).  They have a good start on growing though the outer leaves were burned the day it dropped from 80 to 24 overnight.




The next template is the four 4 x 10 raised beds that we were given by neighbors last year.  They all have onions in them now.  One of these is where I plan to plant corn next year, probably in a diamond pattern around the ollas.




The last bed looks big, but it’s really small.  It’s made of cinderblocks and is tucked into a corner of our house in the back yard.  I have some herbs in some of the holes and have recently seeded carrots and radishes into the empty space.  I hope to grow luffas on tall trellis (borrowed from the squares in the main garden) to make some biodegradable dish sponges for myself next year.




January is my month for garden planning (though I’m always thinking about my garden all year round), so I’m getting a start.


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## clancey

So much work and I am so glad you are taking precautions for the weather seems very erratic to me and as i watch the weather channel when I get time it seems strange to me where the cold and hot temperatures are hitting especially with that upper air jet stream moving up and down at times--it seems that way any way to a non expert here--just thinking....glad you have wraps on the plants...There is a whole lot of work to gardening and I wish that I started this years ago when I was younger and could bend down better--lol--but those raised gardens seem to be much better and I would have to raise them really "higher"--lol--not on this property anyway and checking out different small places to move to in the future so gardening for me is maybe one or two plants or maybe not any this year..., but the season will come again...just too much on my mind..lol I sure enjoy hearing everyone's garden experiences and taking in some information as well...You really do like those "ollas" and I read the literature you posted about them but it seems to me a lot of extra work and how long does the moisture stay in them? Maybe you should try some gardening like freeman does have  you ever thought of that maybe in a room in your home or in your garage or something..That would be a new learning experience for you but it does take energy as well..Enjoying all the nice and educated posting..thanks old clancey


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## DuaeGuttae

The ollas are work, but they are not “extra” work.  I have to water, and it is financially not possible for us to use our community well because of water restrictions and punitive pricing.  (Our neighbors got an $800 bill the first time they hooked up their garden to irrigation.). We also prefer using rainwater because it doesn’t add alkalinity to our raised bed soils as the hard water would, and our water is highly chlorinated straight out of the tap because of our proximity to the pumping station.  Gardening, in general, is work, but it’s work I enjoy most of the time, and I’m glad to be out (except in miserable weather).  Inside isn’t really my favorite place, even though having plants inside makes it cheerier.

I am, however, looking at options for a portable pump to make transferring water to our garden rain tank a faster, more feasible process.  Also I’d like to be able to fill my ollas faster and do surface watering more quickly.  I’m planning to put a thread in the DIY section asking for advice.

I don’t have an elaborate full-sized hydroponic system like @Dan Freeman does, but I do have plants inside in winter.  I also have some mini hydroponic setups that work really well for my seed starting.  Right now I’m germinating more kale, broccoli, cauliflower, and lettuce, as well as a few herbs.  Outside is definitely more unpredictable, but I like to grow all sorts of things like corn and pumpkins and zucchini and pole beans that would not fit in the average hydroponic setup.  I bet his indoor system is a wonderful winter activity, but I would imagine he does the bulk of his gardening outside in the summer.


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## clancey

I think your "right"--I will say one thing----"Your garden is the best garden that I have ever seen" and you are a real asset to the gardening world...We have a water problem here in my state too and its very dry as well so I can sure understand that now...A 800 water bill that your neighbor got--wow,,,thanks...clancey


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## Dan Freeman

DuaeGuttae said:


> I bet his indoor system is a wonderful winter activity, but I would imagine he does the bulk of his gardening outside in the summer.


Yes, growing my winter lettuce and tomatoes is a fun (and nutritious) indoor winter activity, but it is just a tiny portion of the gardening I do outside during the summer. I am so tired of winter and have a real bad case of cabin fever. I can't wait to get my seeds started in my greenhouse. 55 days until Spring! I always start my seeds on the first day of Spring. 🙂🥝🌶️🌽🥕🥒


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## Dan Freeman

clancey said:


> I think your "right"--I will say one thing----"Your garden is the best garden that I have ever seen" and you are a real asset to the gardening world...We have a water problem here in my state too and its very dry as well so I can sure understand that now...A 800 water bill that your neighbor got--wow,,,thanks...clancey


We have our own well, and in 27 years we only had to worry one summer during an extended dry period. Our water is very hard and acidic. We have two filters in the cellar to treat the house water, but I can't use that water for my gardens because of the high salt content after passing through one of the filters. The salt builds up in the soil over time if I use that water. I ran two pex lines from the feed pipe before the filters to my outdoor faucets after I realized how harmful the treated water was for my gardens.


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## clancey

Hearing that you all have your own well sounds really good first hand but then as one gets into it there are a lot of problems to sort out...Even water in my city used to feel good but lately it has been feeling sort of like "sticky" like your foot sticking to the bottom of the tub instead of sliding--just imagine "this problem"---lol ...The city is changing all the city piping especially with the older homes--me (1926) with new pipes and replacing the old ones from the street to the house outside meter, then the rest of the piping is my responsibility as I look at this old fat cast iron thing in my basement on the inside wall---another bill to consider but at least the lead piping will be gone..The sent us "water filters" to use until they are able to change the piping....So water on many different levels can be a real problem now a days...How in the world would one get a lot of salt out?  Lots to consider here and too much for my brain...For DuaeGuttae I was going to suggest some animal watering systems but it was too much for my head after reading the replies of how to pump her water to make it easier for her..., but its an idea anyway for her to check out...just in case it might work some way---lol  We all have our small problems and thank God we are able to have just small ones for now "considering other peoples problems" , but water is water...thanks...clancey


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## Dan Freeman

Bad case of Cabin Fever 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, so to alleviate some of the symptoms, I just ordered 13 more trees and vines for the food forest. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I just hope my wallet outlasts my cabin fever! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




2 Theta Filbert Hazelnut Trees





1 Jefferson Filbert Hazelnut Tree (we already have 1)





1 Methley Plum Tree





1 Santa Rosa Plum Tree





1 All-in-One Almond Tree





1 Bing Cherry Tree






1 Black Tartarian Cherry Tree





1 Concord Grape





4 Five Flavor Fruit- Magnolia Vine (1 for each post of our pergola which will grow up over it)





This will bring us up to 33 trees, berry bushes, and vines. They will be delivered the beginning of April. As soon as the ground thaws we will start putting up the perimeter fence so we can get rid of the individual plant cages.


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## clancey

I am a PA brat too but your in wine country and what work you have in stored for yourself and what beautiful trees you have---how nice...lots of work ahead...but you are used to it...I drove through the NE sections about 60 some years ago on my way to upstate ending up in Vermont and how pretty it was as I remember but I bet a lot changed now...and now I am in Colorado through life decision making --lol  ...Good for you and I wonder about almonds are they hard to plant and have and do you get hard almonds....silly question but I just do not know for that one looks "softer"..--silly me..Really enjoyed the pretty pictures--thank you...old clancey


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## Dan Freeman

Not sure about that almond tree, clancey, but I am going to give it a try. 

As far as NE PA, things have really changed, even in the 27 years we have been here. Population explosion, housing explosion, commercial explosion. Here where we live in the foothills of the Pocono Mountains, we no longer recognize it compared to when we bought back in 1995. If we had known this area was going to grow such as it has, we would have bought further out. One nice thing is we are exactly 1 mile from all this craziness. We have 8 acres surrounded by woods owned by folks who don't plan to sell anytime soon, so it has the feeling of being further out. My biggest complaint is all the traffic on the road where we live. I would sell and move to an even more rural area, but at almost 66, I'm not sure I have the energy, plus we have made so many improvements to the house, outbuildings, and property over our 27 years - and the thought of moving! We could never do that on a new property. I'm figuring I'll go out feet first on this piece of land, and I am content with that.


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## old greybeard

We had a good fall in PA. Had Kale, lettuce and spinach out of the garden until right before new year’s. All covered in plastic now under the snow, the spinach and kale will take back off in March with any luck. We just received our seeds and will be starting broccoli, cabbage soon, followed by  tomatoes and peppers. Start them under a grow light, currently growing lettuce. This flat is Oak Leaf and Lolla Rosa lettuce, started 12/8, been eating it for about 2 weeks. Start a new flat every 45 days or so from 11/1 till late January. Plenty of lettuce for just 2 of us.


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## clancey

I can sure duplicate what you are saying with all angles here...I thought that I would just kick the bucket in my little house that I have put a lot of work into to make it into something that would give me some comfort with my senior years including these last few years with getting a wood burning stove just in case the grid goes down or something but that ended up bad because I just got out of the doctors office with sumac poisoning so I cannot burn my wood in the stove and I love my stove.. I will have to buy the other type of wood to burn--those other type of logs---but if anything should happen to the grid at least I feel more secure now...with my beautiful stove...as well as having a stand by generic generator that I really love..Because of this city be such as one with a "high tech and wired atmosphere" I have no other choice now but move to a less populated area and I dread this at my age at this time...almost ten years older than you..You still have some energetic years ahead of you but when you get towards the middle of 70 you really begin to slow down and it is those particular years you need to be real careful and not fall because one thinks they are still like they used to be "strong" but find out different when they fall...so be smart and listen to  me on this so that you continue to have wonderful health..If your leaving the house and you think there is just a little bit of snow out there and you do not need your good boots------don't do it---go back and get your boots...and put them on---lesson number one---and that goes for you too thread  starter...lol  old clancey at it again...lol... I am in contact with two realtors now and we are looking for just the right property for me to move too and I truly dread this...especially since I am nearing 80 years old..., but I have no choice but cannot get into it because it might be considered some kind of conspiracy theory or something on this forum...Yes I will take my wonderful wood stove with me as well as my generator...I would very much like to have a green house and i really am liking this garden thread so that I can pick up information here and there about gardening...I am very curious about your almond tree and might read up on that tonight--almond trees--wow--who would have thought...enjoyed..thank you...clancey


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## Dan Freeman

Looks great @old greybeard . Nothing like fresh salad makings during the winter!


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## Dan Freeman

clancey said:


> I can sure duplicate what you are saying with all angles here...I thought that I would just kick the bucket in my little house that I have put a lot of work into to make it into something that would give me some comfort with my senior years including these last few years with getting a wood burning stove just in case the grid goes down or something but that ended up bad because I just got out of the doctors office with sumac poisoning so I cannot burn my wood in the stove and I love my stove.. I will have to buy the other type of wood to burn--those other type of logs---but if anything should happen to the grid at least I feel more secure now...with my beautiful stove...as well as having a stand by generic generator that I really love..Because of this city be such as one with a "high tech and wired atmosphere" I have no other choice now but move to a less populated area and I dread this at my age at this time...almost ten years older than you..You still have some energetic years ahead of you but when you get towards the middle of 70 you really begin to slow down and it is those particular years you need to be real careful and not fall because one thinks they are still like they used to be "strong" but find out different when they fall...so be smart and listen to  me on this so that you continue to have wonderful health..If your leaving the house and you think there is just a little bit of snow out there and you do not need your good boots------don't do it---go back and get your boots...and put them on---lesson number one---and that goes for you too thread  starter...lol  old clancey at it again...lol... I am in contact with two realtors now and we are looking for just the right property for me to move too and I truly dread this...especially since I am nearing 80 years old..., but I have no choice but cannot get into it because it might be considered some kind of conspiracy theory or something on this forum...Yes I will take my wonderful wood stove with me as well as my generator...I would very much like to have a green house and i really am liking this garden thread so that I can pick up information here and there about gardening...I am very curious about your almond tree and might read up on that tonight--almond trees--wow--who would have thought...enjoyed..thank you...clancey


Thanks for the advice, Mrs Clancey. I am becoming more and more conscious of falling or tripping, of which I have had my share. Amazing how "little mistakes" take their toll as we get older. Here is the info on the almond tree we bought today.









						All-in-One Almond Tree
					

Space-Saving Tree Delivers Sweet Nuts  Why All-in-One Almond Trees? A self-fertile, easy-growing variety that doesn't take much space, the All-in One Almond Tree lives up to its name, delivering spring blooms that transition to sweet nuts in early fall. So, if you live on a smaller plot of land...




					www.fast-growing-trees.com


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## DuaeGuttae

I just started hardening off a few broccoli, cauliflower, and kale plants as wells as some lettuce.  Inside I just started more seeds of some sugar snap peas.  I have not successfully managed to get a good crop here in Texas from those.  It seems as though we’re either too hot or too cold or swinging in between.  I figure that if I can keep them inside through the next couple of cold snaps, maybe I can get in a crop before it heats up too much in the spring.  We’ll see.


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## clancey

Your weather is really strange this year and it just snowed near you I think...freezing too..Hope you have your wood stove on...Been so busy and in reality have not have time to do some investigation on the almond tree but I think they need real hot weather but not sure...Checking out SD and wonder how that is growing plants...thanks for the postings..We just got about 5 or 6 inches of snow here in the city and its pretty but now I am tired of it already...Put a half of avocado in a cup with some toothpicks so that done one time at a friends house--does that work and could I get a avocado?  You see how green I am...thanks..clancey


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## DuaeGuttae

To get an avocado, @clancey , you’d have to grow a full tree from that little pit.  You can grow a seedling and keep it in a pot, and you could transplant it to a bigger pot as it increases in size.  You’d have to be able to move it inside in the winter, and you’re not realistically going to be able to do that long enough to get a mature tree that would bear fruit.  You could still sprout your pit and enjoy it for a while, though.  Just the wonder of watching the roots and sprouts can be a terrific lift to the spirit.  I’ll know I’ll get excited when the seeds I planted today start sending up shoots.

We’re a pretty long way from snow as far as I know.  The panhandle was supposed to get a storm, but that’s easily 500 miles away from us.  We’re pretty far south, but it has snowed significantly three different times since I’ve lived here (only five years), though two of those were in the same week during last February’s freeze.  My five year old actually believes that winter means snow even here.


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## clancey

Thanks and I am not going to grow a whole tree but will keep it away just to see it sprout or whatever then figure out what to do....Thought you lived where the snow fell but glad you do not have to slush through the stuff but it is pretty "once in awhile"--lol...thanks for the information and I am so glad and happy for you to have some "grandchildren" a nice gift for you...Bless all,,clancey


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## DuaeGuttae

clancey said:


> Thanks and I am not going to grow a whole tree but will keep it away just to see it sprout or whatever then figure out what to do....Thought you lived where the snow fell but glad you do not have to slush through the stuff but it is pretty "once in awhile"--lol...thanks for the information and I am so glad and happy for you to have some "grandchildren" a nice gift for you...Bless all,,clancey


You’ll have to post some pictures if it does sprout.  

No grandchildren here, just children ranging from five to fourteen.  I’m an older mom, though, so I feel creaky enough sometimes to be a grandma.  My mom was an older mom, too, so the real grandma  is already well into her eighties.  I hope that I can be a spry as she is when I’m her age.  You should see her garden!


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## begreen

Seed orders have arrived. I started some lettuce and spinach in the greenhouse yesterday. Today I will make some remay tunnels over the lettuce plants that made it through the winter. They are sprouting nice greens, but I want to help accelerate production before the spring crop kicks in.


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## Dan Freeman

Went through all my seeds today. I have so many. Tomatoes, peppers, carrots, cucumbers, cabbage, spinach, lettuce, squash, melons, eggplants, etc. I only need to buy beet seeds and I am good for this Spring.

51 days until the first day of Spring! 👍


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## clancey

I know you are all just "counting the days"--massive storm tonight starting on the east coast--lots of snow...Tomorrow I will take a five hour car trip to the other side of my state to see if I can still hear this noise(humming)--high tech city here--lots of 5G and towers real near my house--looking for a new place to live and if I find just the right place I want a green house--yes--getting into this gardening with only having one plant...Yes will take a picture of my avocado--lol---Wow DuaeGuttae pictured you "old like me"--sorry mama...That begreen getting ready making tunnels now--lol---hi freeman and bye everybody--happy planting...ha..


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## Dan Freeman

Safe trip tomorrow Mrs Clancey.


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## clancey

Trip was beautiful and saw some peach tree farms in a place called Palisade--beautiful trip with a excellent driver but scary as well around all those mountains---very pretty and really enjoyed being out of the city for awhile and enjoyed "eating too"-lol...Still heard the noise so it must be global from the satellites or something and only I could hear it but the vibration attached was much lower..So It was a very nice productive and seeing all the country things was nice..Gosh there are a lot of peach trees in that area...very pretty not tall trees but pretty needing their leaves at this time of year. Saw the 1/4 of moon coming over the mountains too--very pretty you all and enjoyed..clancey


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## EatenByLimestone

Mrs Clancy,

Visit this place to see if it's cell phones, wifi, etc.










						No Cell Signal, No Wi-Fi, No Problem. Growing Up Inside America’s ‘Quiet Zone’ (Published 2020)
					

Green Bank, W.Va., is home to a telescope so large that it requires near radio silence to operate, a technological restriction that has created a unique kind of modern childhood.




					www.google.com
				













						NO SIGNAL: Growing Up in Green Bank, West Virginia
					

I tend to speak about my origins as if I was from a foreign country, and not from rural West Virginia. ARTICLE BY: Marilyn Creager (Reposted with permission, original story from The Observer) I tend…



					greenbankobservatory.org


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## DuaeGuttae

We’re predicted to have some very low temperatures at the end of this week (19 for us is very low).  I’ll have to protect the citrus again, and I think I’ll wait to set out my brassicas and lettuce.  I’ve been working on getting them used to sunshine, but they haven’t had practice with freezes.

My husband and I had some unpleasant surprises yesterday when I was carrying water to some trees.  The first was that our very small satsuma had been completely dug out of its planting spot, and most of its root system was destroyed.  We replanted, but I don’t know that it will be able to survive the trauma.  We’ve been in drought again, and because I do water the tree, the soil there is more tempting for a digging animal.  We have a makeshift wrought iron fence up that keeps the deer from nibbling, but the spacing probably allows a small animal  to get in.  I think we’ll have to put a wire cage up.  We think this time it might have been a skunk.

The next surprise was one of my olive trees.  We have three planted on the south side of our property, and they are all surrounded by wire fencing.  There are not posts driven into the ground because that’s a big deal, but there is one stake holding the fencing, and a circle of rocks holds it down at the ground.  Yesterday I saw that one of my fences was completely gone, and the little olive (which had had to grow back completely from the roots after February’s freeze) had been stripped of almost all its leaves.  My husband and I looked all around the area and found no sign of the cage, so we took a big one away from a bigger satsuma in the backyard which had been being eaten by deer jumping the back fence, and put it around the olive.  Later in the afternoon when we were processing firewood, my husband was walking to a different part of the property to collect some downed cedar stems, and he found the mangled cage hidden in some tall growth.  

We try to reserve Sundays for worship and rest, but we may need this afternoon to go out and see what we can do about putting cages around the two satsumas.   At least it will be a pretty day today (60s and sunny) before the cold comes in later this week.


----------



## Dan Freeman

Sorry to hear about your marauders, DuaeGuttae. Fencing and other deterrents are my major cost when it comes to growing on my property. Just the physical and electric fencing supplies for my food forest have cost more than the 33 trees, bushes, and vines I have purchased so far. It is annoying, but I try to remember it's just animals being animals. Their job is to eat; my job is to keep them from eating what I grow.


----------



## begreen

That's a bummer. I have found that the only thing that keeps deer out is a tall deer fence, anchored at the bottom. To keep marauding skunks at bay put a 36" square of 1/4" galvanized hardware cloth around the base of each tree. Make a slit and 2-4" hole in the middle to clear the trunk and use landscape cloth staples to anchor it in place. 

I get occasional diggers in our beds and have found it's worse any place where I have used a good organic fertilizer or compost recently in the soil. They smell things like fish emulsion in it.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> That's a bummer. I have found that the only thing that keeps deer out is a tall deer fence, anchored at the bottom. To keep marauding skunks at bay put a 36" square of 1/4" galvanized hardware cloth around the base of each tree. Make a slit and 2-4" hole in the middle to clear the trunk and use landscape cloth staples to anchor it in place.
> 
> I get occasional diggers in our beds and have found it's worse any place where I have used a good organic fertilizer or compost recently in the soil. They smell things like fish emulsion in it.



That’s a great suggestion about the hardware cloth.  Does it need to be 1/4 inch to be effective?  I’m wondering because I already own 1 inch fencer wire, and I could configure a square around the tree with it when we replant if it survives this trauma.  That won’t be for a couple of months, I’m sure, though, so I certainly have time to get hardware cloth.  I’m thinking I’ll use it around the olives, too.

Right now we decided that we would put the poor satsuma in a pot and keep it indoors.  Part of that is because the weather this week is going to be crazy (70 degree days followed by 19 and ice).  Even though satsumas can take fairly cold temperatures compared to most citrus, we figured this one had already had so much trauma in its short life that we weren’t sure it could take it even if I tried to protect it.  We lost almost all of it last year, but there was one branch hanging on at the bottom, and we were hoping to keep that one going.  What was so sad was seeing how many nice roots it had that were severed by the digging (the whole thing was dug up and thrown to the side).

Here’s a picture of it on our dining room table (the plant ICU at the moment).




I do use a homemade organic fertilizer on the plants (cottonseed meal, alfalfa pellets, kelp powder, bone meal, blood meal and that type of thing), but it had been several months at least.  I stop fertilizing in fall because I don’t want to encourage too much growth during our short but crazy winters.  I start again (if I’m diligent) in February.  I do think, though, that it was the rich soil in the area and that fact that I water the tree that encouraged the digging in this area.  I’m sure that worms and the like are attracted to the moisture while everything else is so dry.

In good news, my brassicas and lettuce are looking very green and happy.  I think because I’m not going to put them out this week, I’m going to root prune them instead of potting them up.  Is that a horrible idea for any reason?


----------



## begreen

I imagine 1" would be fine. Better if it is heavy gauge and not lightweight chicken wire. 
Root pruning the lettuce is ok if not too aggressive and put back in sterile soil.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

It’s definitely heavier than poultry netting.  I think it’s 16 gauge.

I will admit that  I’m trying to avoid potting up the plants at all.  I started them in a little hydroponic system (an Aerogarden that my sister-in-law gave to my daughter years ago, and then I liked it so well for starting seeds that I bought another one used.  New prices are insane.).  Since we’ve moved these are the only grow lights we have, but it  has worked well for me.  Because the roots are in water they grow really long, really fast.  I had hoped to put these in the ground this past  weekend.  (I harden off in the Aerogarden and often skip the potting up stages for plants like lettuce).  Because the forecast is for the coldest weather of the season later this week, however, I need to keep them out of the ground for now.  That’s why I’m thinking of root pruning.




About the deer, we are technically not allowed to put up deer fencing by covenant on the property, but we are allowed to protect plantings (hence my fencing the garden).  We didn’t know when we moved here what an issue the deer were, but we’ve been protecting our plantings as much as possible by creating small enclosures that the deer hesitate to jump into.  Technically they can, but they tend not to when it feels crowded.  We think that a deer pushed its head through the old fencing around our Koroneiki olive to eat it and then got stuck and pulled the fencing up and carried it off.  It was staked, but not super well because there’s so much rock there.  (It was lots of work with a pickaxe to dig holes for planting.). Here’s a photo of the defoliated olive.  (It had been killed back by the freeze in February but had grown back really nicely from the roots.)



We managed to get some better temporary protection up yesterday, but it still needs more work, especially with securing it to the ground.  I had been planning to replace the larger-holed fencing with the smaller mesh that we had, but since it had been working I hadn’t gotten to it.  (I want to make  plant cages for tomatoes and other vegetables out of the larger-holed version).  

It’s hard to see the wire, but the first picture below is our Mission olive with the old style protection.  (We didn’t have enough fencing to replace it yet.). The second picture is the replacement around the Koroneiki.  I’m sure hoping that this will be even more of a deterrent.




The Koroneiki really is inside that second picture.  It’s just terribly hard to see without its leaves.  Thankfully I have a couple of cuttings that I took a while back and poked in rooting hormone and put in one of my planters that have stayed green all this time.  I’m hoping that they are growing roots in there.

And just for a bonus photo, here’s a shot of our formerly huge Satsuma that lost all its branches during the February freeze.  It used to be eighteen feet in diameter.  Thankfully with frost cloth and poultry brooding lamps, the trunks lived and resprouted this spring.  Sadly, perhaps because there was more room in that corner of the backyard, deer started jumping in and eating the growth, so we put up an interior fence inside the backyard.  There’s a lot of river rock still inside the enclosure.  We’ve been removing it from around trees so that we can mulch and fertilize, but it’s another ongoing project around here.


----------



## clancey

A lot of garden work and tactics to use to keep the plantings surviving after all the commotions in the garden with the wild animals. I feel for you...Its hard I imagine when you tenderly raise a tree or plant and you come out to see your garden and its gone--terrible..poor plant and that poor tree with only a few leaves left--sure hope it makes it...I have doubts---we will see..thanks for all the nice pictures. If I ever got a skunk in my yard it would be dangerous for my pigeons so I had my carpenter build me a "fly pen" --outside one---and put about 18 inches of concrete strips on the bottom of the hard wire (1/4) and made the "fly" with a roof on top and in time--maybe I will take the roof out or put sky lights in and make it into a sort of green house..just ideas here..but it will be closed in and about 12x10 and that should work--although you live in the country and have a lot of wild animals around you..but  you could bury the hard wire in concrete so it stops the digging of the animals. Maybe that would work--just saying....enjoyed --thanks..clancey


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Saw a guy wearing this shirt at the airport today.


----------



## clancey

Ha Ha Ha--That's one way of looking at it...so innocent and the real wording would be okay especially for seniors who are really old....could be funny....thanks..I could wear that shirt. lol clancey


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## begreen

EatenByLimestone said:


> Saw a guy wearing this shirt at the airport today.
> 
> View attachment 291464


I love it!


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## begreen

So it begins. Just lettuce and spinach right now.


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## EatenByLimestone

I need to order seeds.    My wife wants lots of peppers this year.   I've never had much luck with them.   Should be interesting!


----------



## Northern NH Mike

EatenByLimestone said:


> I need to order seeds.    My wife wants lots of peppers this year.   I've never had much luck with them.   Should be interesting!


I'm going to be ordering my seeds this weekend as well.  I grew peppers in pots last season as I have had little luck in the raised beds in the past.  It allowed me to move them when the temps got cooler and manage the soil moisture better,  They did quite well.


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## Dan Freeman

That's a good suggestion, Mike.

I never used to have luck with peppers either until I decided to keep them in 9" pots in my greenhouse all summer. They definitely benefit from the constant warmth of the green house as now I get so many peppers I am giving them away.

Here in the Pocono Mountains, we have cool to cold nights right through May and they begin again in August. That makes it difficult to grow peppers.


----------



## Northern NH Mike

Dan Freeman said:


> That's a good suggestion, Mike.
> 
> I never used to have luck with peppers either until I decided to keep them in 9" pots in my greenhouse all summer. They definitely benefit from the constant warmth of the green house as now I get so many peppers I am giving them away.
> 
> Here in the Pocono Mountains, we have cool to cold nights right through May and they begin again in August. That makes it difficult to grow peppers.


Dan, that is the main issue here in northern NH, the temps have big swings in the early and late season so we are in a constant race with Mother Nature to squeeze every growing day out that we can .  I've looked at greenhouse plans online to see if I can extend my season.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Maybe that's the issue I have.   It probably is.    

I ordered 50 poblano pepper seeds.   Maybe I'll put them in containers.  It should keep the soil warmer.   

I ordered from MI Gardner.   Their prices have gone up, but still cheaper than most at $2/pack.  Doesn't seem to matter what the seed is.  I've always received good seeds from them.


----------



## Dan Freeman

EatenByLimestone said:


> Maybe that's the issue I have.   It probably is.
> 
> I ordered 50 poblano pepper seeds.   Maybe I'll put them in containers.  It should keep the soil warmer.
> 
> I ordered from MI Gardner.   Their prices have gone up, but still cheaper than most at $2/pack.  Doesn't seem to matter what the seed is.  I've always received good seeds from them.


I would almost bet on it being up there in Schenectady. Anything you can do to keep your pepper plant's "feet" warm will help.


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## Montanalocal

I have the same cold nights problem here in central Montana at 5,000 ft. elevation.  I grow all my warm weather plants like tomatoes and squash in 5 gallon buckets with their whole entire bottom cut out.  I put them in my garden and the roots grow all the way down through the buckets and into my garden soil.


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## clancey

I think that is a good idea Montanlocal...helping to keep "the feets" warm..lol  thanks..clancey


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## DuaeGuttae

Meanwhile, in south central Texas I have to worry about peppers getting too much heat and sun.  I will say, though, that I’ve generally done better with peppers down here than I used to in Virginia.  I still don’t do well with bells, though.  They get sunburned.

It’s getting to be potato planting time down here.  Just yesterday I was able to pick up some seed potatoes (Yukon Gold, Red Norland, Adirondack Blue).  We have some work to do in the bed before we plant, but we’ll plan to get these in the ground soon.  We need to give them time to mature before the heat sets in.


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## clancey

Can you take a regular pot out of the bag and plant it in good soil? clancey


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## Dan Freeman

clancey said:


> Can you take a regular pot out of the bag and plant it in good soil? clancey


Most store-bought tomatoes have been sprayed to reduce sprouting. Some will still produce sprouts, but the crop is usually diminished because of whatever they spray them with. You can do it with organic potatoes if you can find them, like at a farmers' market.


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## clancey

Looking on the net I found this article about different things and potato's too..You people will read it and I bet know a lot already but it was interesting for me so I thought that I would share it here..clancey




__





						How Far Apart Do Potato Set Rows Need to Be?
					

How Far Apart Do Potato Set Rows Need to Be?. A staple in diets worldwide, potatoes are root crops, so-called in part because the edible part grows under the soil. Unlike other root crops such as beets and turnips, the root is the only part of the potato that is eaten. When you plant them, it's...




					homeguides.sfgate.com


----------



## Northern NH Mike

Just bought my seed potatoes this morning through Annie's Heirloom Seeds.  Did reasonably well growing a small crop of reds in clear rubbermade containers last season.


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## Woodsplitter67

Well it was 16 degrees this morning. After splitting I started my seeds.. Planted peppers, tomato, onion, eggplant, basil, cilantro, celery.. some of the other stuff that doesn't take so long will start next month


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## EatenByLimestone

I need to get on top of the potatoes too!    Ignorance is bliss!    Thanks alot for telling me I need to work more, lol.    

Luckily there is still a ton of snow and ice on the ground.   I won't have to look at the ground until the end of March!


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## clancey

Ha Ha--you need to work more and dig up all that snow--kidding.., enjoy this month and just relax with your feet near the fire or heat and have a nice cup of hot chocolate instead..That's what I am doing right now and when its time i will go to home depot and pick out about two or three plants and ask you people what I do with them after I take their pictures..lol  So we have plenty of work in store to get our plants in the ground...and they look so cute in their containers all covered up if that's what I am seeing...plant on...clancey


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## Dan Freeman

Woodsplitter67 said:


> Well it was 16 degrees this morning. After splitting I started my seeds.. Planted peppers, tomato, onion, eggplant, basil, cilantro, celery.. some of the other stuff


Seems very early to be starting peppers, tomatoes, and eggplant. Where do you keep them while you are waiting for your last frost date? I usually wait until the first day of Spring to start mine (another 42 days), and I keep them in my greenhouse until planting outside. Our last frost date is May 30 or there-abouts. I usually "cheat" and plant outside two weeks earlier, but I start so many seeds I always have extra plants in case we get a bad frost or freeze.


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## EatenByLimestone

I've started plants as early as March 1st.   I really don't know that it got the plant off to that much of an early start.    The harvest seemed regular..  It was nice seeing them growing in the window though.  And that may be the ticket that gets you through March, lol.   I've had volunteer tomatoes growing right next to ones I've started inside and both seem to do just fine.


----------



## Woodsplitter67

Dan Freeman said:


> Seems very early to be starting peppers, tomatoes, and eggplant. Where do you keep them while you are waiting for your last frost date? I usually wait until the first day of Spring to start mine (another 42 days), and I keep them in my greenhouse until planting outside. Our last frost date is May 30 or there-abouts. I usually "cheat" and plant outside two weeks earlier, but I start so many seeds I always have extra plants in case we get a bad frost or freeze.


Im a little later then last year.  There are professional growers in my area that start early January... with tomatoes on there's in latter April/may. I do notice a difference in my plants, larger when they go in the ground, yield is a little better and a little earlier.  I start my plants in the house they tend to be a little slow. Ill move them to the greenhouse in like a month. My pepper plants will be like 9 inches or better and the tomatoes will be over a foot to 16 inches. Really its never to early.. a person can plant when ever they want, just up pot if needed. the plants that I start now, I will still be picking this coming December. Just like I did this past year. I have had pepper plants for 2 years.. starting them in February of 19 and still picking the. December of 20. There is really only 1 right time to plant.. that is the time the gardener feels its best for him/her.


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## Dan Freeman

Woodsplitter67 said:


> Im a little later then last year.  There are professional growers in my area that start early January... with tomatoes on there's in latter April/may. I do notice a difference in my plants, larger when they go in the ground, yield is a little better and a little earlier.  I start my plants in the house they tend to be a little slow. Ill move them to the greenhouse in like a month. My pepper plants will be like 9 inches or better and the tomatoes will be over a foot to 16 inches. Really its never to early.. a person can plant when ever they want, just up pot if needed. the plants that I start now, I will still be picking this coming December. Just like I did this past year. I have had pepper plants for 2 years.. starting them in February of 19 and still picking the. December of 20. There is really only 1 right time to plant.. that is the time the gardener feels its best for him/her.


Maybe I'll have to try this. What type of greenhouse do you have? I've had mine since 2016. (https://www.gardenhouse.com/product/mt-rainier-8x16/) I retrofitted it with insulation and even heated it a couple of winters, but that gets expensive, more expensive than buying produce in the store (even though it's not as good).

EatenByLimestone - You are definitely right about doing anything that gets you through March. If I didn't grow lettuce and tomatoes indoors during the winter, I think I would go out of my mind.


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## Woodsplitter67

Dan Freeman said:


> Maybe I'll have to try this. What type of greenhouse do you have? I've had mine since 2016. (https://www.gardenhouse.com/product/mt-rainier-8x16/) I retrofitted it with insulation and even heated it a couple of winters, but that gets expensive, more expensive than buying produce in the store (even though it's not as good).
> 
> EatenByLimestone - You are definitely right about doing anything that gets you through March. If I didn't grow lettuce and tomatoes indoors during the winter, I think I would go out of my mind.



I custom built mine out of 6mm polly carb and pressure treated lumber.  The foundation are 4x4s with 18 inches of modified and  dark pavers on top for thermal mass. I have a small solar array on the back side the operates a DC fan for air circulation.  3 automatic solar openers for the vents for fresh air and to keep it cool starting at 80 degrees. I have electric baseboard heat and a programmable thermostat. I have solar on the house with an electric line run to the greenhouse. I have a 52 panel system so I dont pay anything to heat it. I ran a i inch line from the irrigation system so I have a drip irrigation system inside on a timer as well as hose  for watering.. Its not a big greenhouse.. but plenty big enough.. cost nothing to run which is why I grow well into winter..


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## Woodsplitter67

here's a pic of the outside.. took me a minute to find it


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## Dan Freeman

Very nice @Woodsplitter67

Here is my greenhouse:



Before I went to electric heat, I did have a solar heating system, but it just took up too much room in my greenhouse with the 2 solar collectors and the 4-55 gallon drums, so I dismantled it after two seasons. I probably should have gone with an outdoor glycol system, but at the time it was too expensive. You can see the solar heating system here:



Here's what my greenhouse looked like inside last year at the end of June.





Just bought 5 bags (16 quarts each-80 quarts total) of Pro Mix Organic Seed Starter Mix to start my seeds. I used to use Jiffy, but I find my seedlings get off to a much better start with Pro Mix with the mycorrhizal fungi. When I up-pot the ones that will stay in the greenhouse all summer, I make my own potting mix using 1/3 compost, 1/3 peat moss, and 1/3 vermiculite, with some organic fertilizer and lime. Also bought a 27-pound bag of Espoma Organic Garden Tone Herb and Vegetable Fertilizer. I usually buy a much smaller bag, but I keep reading about fertilizer shortages, so I thought I would stock up. Looked at the seed potatoes in Home Depot today, but they looked terrible with black spots and soft.


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## clancey

I have some pictures of some of them--different styles from the web...clancey








						Beautify Your Backyard with a DIY Greenhouse
					

Green thumbs, get ready to show your handy side.




					www.countryliving.com


----------



## Dan Freeman

In the past, when I needed any new raised garden beds, I would make them myself from tamarack or black locust (from a local sawmill) or buy cedar ones. Last year, later in the season, I needed 1 more, and I couldn't find cedar in the size I wanted, so I ordered a galvanized one. I was a bit unsure. When it arrived, it seemed a bit flimsy, but once assembled it held the soil very well without any bowing.

This year, the price of cedar raised garden beds have greatly increased. I decided to look at more galvanized beds and found a great deal on Amazon for 4x8x1 beds at just about $75 each, so I ordered 10 of them with free shipping. (I did find them on a couple of sites for a few dollars less, but the shipping made them more expensive.) This is a good deal I just thought I would pass along.

Amazon product


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## clancey

That's really a good price and that looks neat and I might check into those but my problem is I need something "higher in height" so I am trying to figure that out...But they do look nice...I wonder if I could put something like that on some concrete blocks or something--just thinking here--which could be dangerous--lol clancey


----------



## Dan Freeman

clancey said:


> That's really a good price and that looks neat and I might check into those but my problem is I need something "higher in height" so I am trying to figure that out...But they do look nice...I wonder if I could put something like that on some concrete blocks or something--just thinking here--which could be dangerous--lol clancey


Don't see why you couldn't put these garden beds up on concrete blocks. Might be a good idea to gain some height.


----------



## clancey

Thanks and that's good...Just wondered how flimsy they might be and if blocks would hold them if I bought any...I also have a steel cart on  wheels--large one --that I might consider using--just thoughts--thanks...Gosh I must be getting spring fever thinking about growing stuff.  lol...Just a few not too many plants maybe about three or four...appreciate...clancey


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## Dan Freeman

They are not "flimsy" on the ground, so they won't be flimsy on top of concrete blocks if you want added height.


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## EatenByLimestone

That is a good price!

Mrs Clancy, another thing to consider is how far you want to lean over.  I have 2ft wide and 3 foot wide beds.  I like the 2 foot wide better.   Some people kneel on a small stool or sit on a cart to make it easier to garden.


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## clancey

I did not think about that and you are right especially with my advancing age and I will totally take that into consideration and will come up with "something" and share my idea--lol--might not be that much of an idea but I will work on this....getting spring fever here..thanks..clancey


----------



## clancey

I thought this piece I found was interesting...thinking maybe you all would enjoy it too..clancey








						18 Plants You Can Grow from Table Scraps (With Instructions) - Plantsnap - Identify Plants, Trees, Mushrooms With An App
					

Composting leftover food is great and all, but did you know you can grow plants from table scraps? PlantSnap tells you how to start.




					www.plantsnap.com


----------



## DuaeGuttae

Ten new garden beds, @Dan Freeman !  That’s some expansion.  You really do have spring fever.

@clancey , you could also build a raised bed out of cinder blocks.  I put one in the corner of my house in my backyard last year.  This photo was taken when I was first getting it into position.  It’s basically the same now but is filled with soil and has a few herbs in it that survived our recent freeze.  The three cinderblock height requires more material to fill it (we used rotten wood and brush trimmings at the bottom), but it is really comfortable to work with without so much bending.





@EatenByLimestone, I agree with you about preferring narrower beds.  I think it depends, of course, on whether you have access from both sides.  The new beds that we got from our neighbors last year are four feet wide, and it can be a stretch for me at certain points.  I made it harder on myself by putting up trellises between the beds, but I left a gap in the trellis so that I can still get in from the back, and I can reach through the metal.  If I’m leaning from the front, though, it’s a stretch, and I’m a fairly tall woman with long arms.  If I were constructing my own, I’d make them narrower, but I’m still incredibly happy with the beds we got for free.


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## clancey

More wonderful ideas--thanks..That Freeman does have "Spring Fever" he's biting at the bit to get started.lol  Me too I am thinking about it...I do not want anything so permanent and maybe something that can be moved but that width suggestion was a real winner and I would like to be able to get at it from four sides--so I am working on this--might take clear into summer-lol--the way my brain works...I might do something with my small wood shed when my carpenter gets back in town--still figuring--thanks...clancey


----------



## Dan Freeman

DuaeGuttae said:


> Ten new garden beds, @Dan Freeman !  That’s some expansion.  You really do have spring fever.
> 
> @clancey , you could also build a raised bed out of cinder blocks.  I put one in the corner of my house in my backyard last year.  This photo was taken when I was first getting it into position.  It’s basically the same now but is filled with soil and has a few herbs in it that survived our recent freeze.  The three cinderblock height requires more material to fill it (we used rotten wood and brush trimmings at the bottom), but it is really comfortable to work with without so much bending.
> 
> View attachment 291846


Nice one! Perfect for that corner. We actually were thinking of going with cinder blocks, but when I saw these and the great price, I decided to go with them. Lugging all those cinder blocks from Lowes into my van, out of my van, and down into the field was not something I really relished. As far as getting 10, I probably don't need that many for raised beds in our new food forest, but who knows when they will be available at this price again. I'll store the rest for replacements for my oldest wood raised beds. I probably won't have them up and working for this Spring; there is so much else to do, but I will start setting them up once I have my seeds growing, my other beds prepared, and build the fence around the food forest. Each bed will need 32 cubic feet of fill. I will use branches and wood chips on the bottom and get about 8 cubic yards of 50/50 mix (half topsoil/half mushroom compost). I helped the co-owner of the nursery we use by designing labels for her lavender products. She gave me a $100 gift certificate to the nursery, so that will help pay for the soil.


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## Dan Freeman

clancey said:


> More wonderful ideas--thanks..That Freeman does have "Spring Fever" he's biting at the bit to get started.lol


Yes, a very bad case! This year seems worse than most. Can't wait to get started!


----------



## RockyMtnGriz

I planted two tomato seeds last weekend in starter pots.  A leap of faith in my zone 3-4 existence!  I wonder if they'll live most of their lives next to the wood furnace?  They'll be able to go outside full time (or most time) in July!

I did have an unexpected success.  Last summer I put a bunch of mixed hot pepper seeds I'd saved from a batch of hot sauce I made 10 years ago into a pot, just to see if they were viable still.  I brought the pot of immature plants in when winter threatened, and they've made the prettiest house plant.  Blooms for the fall, and an assortment of colorful mini-peppers this winter.  It'll be interesting to see if I get something big enough to trouble with eating when they go out in the sun this summer.


----------



## clancey

You'll be surprised you might get "one"-lol...I think peppers grow well in the western soil--I think..clancey


----------



## DuaeGuttae

I did a little transplanting the last couple of days: broccoli, cauliflower, kale, lettuce, a couple parsley plants, and some sugar snap peas.  I have more pea seeds sprouting now because I didn’t get enough germination on the first round.  I needed to free up space inside so that I can start tomato and pepper seeds.  I haven’t done it but I’m finalizing plans for which varieties I plan to grow.   I’ll also start a couple for the neighbors.


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## clancey

Thanks freeman for the u-tube planting information but somehow and cannot pull up the other message..I do not know how to send messages on here to someone  so far I sent to the moderators when I needed help --so cannot pull up your message other than the u-tube presentation and I need it again for I deleted it by accident--nice information too about hydro....Its snowing and cold here and not good for planting..lol   clancey


----------



## Dan Freeman

clancey said:


> Thanks freeman for the u-tube planting information but somehow and cannot pull up the other message..I do not know how to send messages on here to someone  so far I sent to the moderators when I needed help --so cannot pull up your message other than the u-tube presentation and I need it again for I deleted it by accident--nice information too about hydro....Its snowing and cold here and not good for planting..lol   clancey


Not sure which one you are speaking about Mrs Clancey. If you can be more specific, I will try to help you out.


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## clancey

Thank you and I found it...appreciate..clancey


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## Dan Freeman

We've passed into the 2nd half of February! There is light at the end of the tunnel.


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## Dan Freeman

We decided to expand the area of the food forest to accommodate some more trees on the east side (2 plum, 2 cherries, and 1 almond). Yesterday, I went out to mark it off. The ground is still solidly frozen; I couldn't even drive a stake into the ground. Instead, I marked the expansion with some pieces of wood on the ground. This will bring the total area from @7000 sq ft to 9500 sq ft.

I had to order another roll of welded wire - 100ft since the border is going to be almost 400 ft now. Luckily, the company that makes it is about 40 miles away, so I can pick it up rather than have it shipped. We save a lot of money buying it direct (rather than Home Depot or Lowes) and picking it up ourselves.

I have another 13 trees and vines coming the beginning of April. That will bring us up to 33 trees, bushes and vines. The 10 new 4x10 raised beds came in the other day. Most of them will go down there, too. Just have to order the soil to fill them. Luckily, I helped the owner of the nursery where we buy our soil by designing the labels for her Lavender products. She wanted to pay me, but I have known her for so long I told her "No". She was so happy with the label designs, and she sent me a $100 gift certificate to the nursery! That will help pay for the 8 cubic yards I need to buy.

I am also going to pipe water down into the food forest using flexible polyethylene pipe so we have 2 or three places we can hook up hosing. Easier than dragging hoses a couple of hundred feet from the faucets.

Lots to do once the weather begins cooperating. 30 days until Spring!

I am chomping at the bit to get started!


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## clancey

I can see that--lol--"eager to get started"---you need 10 more acres and stop slipping around that frozen ground--give it time and just enjoy a cup of hot chocolate and read as you wait--lol ..Enjoyed .
clancey


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## DuaeGuttae

@Dan Freeman , you are eager to get started!  That’s great that you have a good source for wire fencing.   It’s such a necessary part of gardening where there are deer.

We’re working on some projects down here.  It’s time to plant the seed potatoes.  I’ve been wanting to get them cut this week but didn’t have time till yesterday afternoon.  I sat on the floor with my five year old and nine year old and built a “potato maze”.  It starts in the front left-hand corner, and the kids taped walls that go in angles, and it ends up coming back to the front right-hand corner where my son has his hand sticking in the exit door in the picture.  The idea is that that potatoes will grow their shoots toward that sole source of light.  We’ll see.  I hope to get the seed potatoes in the ground tomorrow, but I think I haven’t designated enough space for what I have.  I need to look at the garden plan again.




I started some tomato (and a few herb) seeds on Monday afternoon.  They started popping up yesterday morning.  I think the winner was a type I haven’t grown before, Blush 2.0 from Artisan seeds.  We’re hoping it will be a good tomato for drying.



The last shot is a corner of one of my onion beds were I tossed and raked in a handful of cover-crop tillage radish seeds the other day.  I really should have done it in the fall, but our warm temperatures went on so long, and then suddenly winter arrived.  I wasn’t expecting so much germination.  I’ll let these grow for a while, perhaps eat a few (we love fermented daikon), then cut off the tops and let the roots disintegrate.  I have rows of these by the trellises where onions aren’t planted but where I plan to put tomato transplants when it’s warm enough.  This bed didn’t have that same empty space because I have some beets there instead.




I just love seeing seeds sprout and plants growing, so I thought I’d add some horticultural cheer for those of you who live in places with real winters.  (I do miss snow, I have to admit.)


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## Dan Freeman

Looking good! Yes, I agree. I love planting seeds, watching them sprout, grow and bear their harvest. There is something mystical about it.

Those seed potatoes look good. Where did you buy them? I still have to get some, but the ones I have seen so far look pathetic. Going to make some potato boxes using old pallet wood. I get 2 years or so out of them before they rot and break apart.


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## DuaeGuttae

I got them at the local Tractor Supply store.  Mail order sources are so expensive that I don’t think I’d be able to justify growing the small quantities I have room for, and I like being able to pick my own bag.  The bags are paper with a little mesh, so I didn’t realize that my blue ones were as far sprouted as they were.  I like to choose the smaller size potatoes, though,  but when I get larger ones, I just try to distribute the eyes when I cut.


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## Dan Freeman

I was just at Tractor supply this morning to buy some gloves and bird seed. They didn't have any "live" plants, just seed packets. Still a bit too early here, I guess. I don't want to buy them mail order either, not only because of the shipping cost, but most places want you to buy 5lbs of a particular type, and you don't know what you are getting.


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## clancey

So much stuff to do and you people really have the "know how"--fun to read about the different plants and ideas...and since you have so much energy to start this year I am surprised that you don't have some sort of "bee" raising culture and would not this be good?...You people truly need more work to do--lol   Thanks for sharing and those pictures are neat to see... clancey


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## Dan Freeman

clancey said:


> So much stuff to do and you people really have the "know how"--fun to read about the different plants and ideas...and since you have so much energy to start this year I am surprised that you don't have some sort of "bee" raising culture and would not this be good?...You people truly need more work to do--lol   Thanks for sharing and those pictures are neat to see... clancey


I would love to raise bees for the honey and wax, and have often thought about it, but there are so many hours in a day.


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## clancey

As you slide around in the ice why I think you should start with "Bees" today...lol....There is a real neat small business that trains people about bee tending and they have been into it for years and I will try to locate the web page for you and I believe it is in Montana . clancey


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## Dan Freeman

clancey said:


> As you slide around in the ice why I think you should start with "Bees" today...lol....There is a real neat small business that trains people about bee tending and they have been into it for years and I will try to locate the web page for you and I believe it is in Montana . clancey


Thanks!


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## clancey

Getting Started
					

Visit the post for more.




					flatheadvalleybeekeepers.club


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## Dan Freeman

Thanks for that link, Clancey.


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## DuaeGuttae

We’re having quite a warm (ahem, perhaps hot is a better word—85 so far) day down here in Texas.  It should cool off later in the week again, but it was a nice treat as I walked through the back yard to see honeybees busy on some apple blossoms.

There’s nothing to show in my potato bed but a layer of leaf mulch.  I filled my originally planned bed with seed potatoes but had enough to fill an additional smaller bed as well as parts of a planter and a third bed.  Now it‘s time to wait for sprouts.


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## clancey

neat pictures especially the bees and the beautiful little blossoms and you got your potatoes lined up--enjoyed.. clancey


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## DuaeGuttae

Yesterday was another hot day down here, but the forecast was for cold and damp coming in.  I decided it was time to take advantage of the warm and dry soil in a large planter on my deck and get some sprouting sweet potatoes from my pantry in the soil.  For large tubers, I just cut the portion with the sprouts and planted it.  For very small tubers I planted the whole thing.  Once everything was covered up, my husband helped me bring the container inside to the room where we do our garden starter plants this time of year.  The windows primarily face west (with some tree shade), and one is south facing where the sun is just beginning to come in in the photo below.  After it was in place I gave it a good watering.  I think there are 37 slips in there, but I’m hoping for more to have an abundance to share with my next door neighbors.  They are going to try to start some of their own, too, though, after I introduced them to sweet potato growing last year.




After being hot for two days, a cold front came roaring in last night, and the temperature dropped below freezing this morning and stayed there all day.  I’m very glad that this container came in when it did, as the soil was still 75 degrees this morning.  The room where it is located is very open to our woodstove, so the sweet potatoes should be happy with the temperatures.


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## clancey

I liked growing that tomato plant so much I miss the routine of checking on it..lol..I am thinking of buying a very small piece of land maybe an acre or less just so I could have a small green house--just thinking along these terms..Sometimes its fun to dream especially in these days..How are all the plants coming along in this weather especially that tree did it do okay when you put it in the ground? Just wondering..clancey


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## DuaeGuttae

Mrs. Clancey, you don’t need a whole acre to have a greenhouse, just so you know.  You could probably put a little pop-up greenhouse in the back yard where you live now if you wanted to, but you don’t need a greenhouse at all to grow plants.  I do agree about how it’s fun to dream, though.  We have a little shed with a leaky roof, and I dream about pulling off the shingles and walls and turning it into a greenhouse.  I worry about a greenhouse being too hot, here, though, even in winter.

If you were asking about my little satsuma mandarin orange tree, I’m very happy to report that it seems to be doing well.  I can’t see what’s going on below the surface, of course, but I assume that it is rooting in well because it has developed a flower bud.  I need to pinch it off, but here’s a picture I took of it yesterday while it was enjoying some time outside.




I’ve moved it back inside for a bit because we’re having some fierce winds blowing in a cold front.  I haven’t decided if I’ll try to put this back in the ground later in the spring or if I’ll let it size up some more in the pot and try for early fall.  

Saturday morning my husband and I put our tomato seedlings in some nursery bags.  They didn’t look so good immediately after transplanting, of course, because I had to tear some roots, but they have perked up a lot now.  They had spent several days outside, but they’re inside now again because of our cold front.  I’ll try to get them outside during the days this week, but it will be too cold at night for them.  Thankfully I only have one tray right now, so it’s easy to move them.  I do have some peppers and eggplants starting, though, and I need to think about when to get cucumbers and the like going (probably once I’ve potted up the peppers).


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## clancey

That Satsuma I think (what do know--lol} looks good for it got I think 2 more leaves on it...Wondering how Freeman's "nut tree" is coming along and I could say more but I won't and I will be good for now...He has done a lot of work and I hope he is okay with all his greenery and stuff. Kind of missing his reporting.. Yea I saw those pop ups and small greenhouse but I am trying to get to a less populated place in order to solve some of my other problems But for now I am looking at my wood shed seriously for a little plant holding area--maybe taking the cheap roof off of it and making it better "somehow" so that It can get the sun and have protection from my squirrels visiting as well. They did not bother my tomato and I was surprised at this...If you want I can save you some fertilizer that I am making and could ship a box to you if you find the need for it..Keeping busy and just figuring things out for now...and pipe dreams as well--lol  clancey


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## EatenByLimestone

I keep looking at prices and wondering if I should double the seeds I put in the ground this year.   It can easily become too much to tend to, but if the wheat futures are any indication of what were going to see...  yikes!


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## clancey

Yea I believe that we are in for a "ride"...plant the extra seeds maybe neighbors might need help...clancey


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## DuaeGuttae

clancey said:


> That Satsuma I think (what do know--lol} looks good for it got I think 2 more leaves on it...Wondering how Freeman's "nut tree" is coming along and I could say more but I won't and I will be good for now...He has done a lot of work and I hope he is okay with all his greenery and stuff. Kind of missing his reporting.. Yea I saw those pop ups and small greenhouse but I am trying to get to a less populated place in order to solve some of my other problems But for now I am looking at my wood shed seriously for a little plant holding area--maybe taking the cheap roof off of it and making it better "somehow" so that It can get the sun and have protection from my squirrels visiting as well. They did not bother my tomato and I was surprised at this...If you want I can save you some fertilizer that I am making and could ship a box to you if you find the need for it..Keeping busy and just figuring things out for now...and pipe dreams as well--lol  clancey



It must be a trick of the camera angle, Mrs. Clancey.  There aren’t any new leaves on the Satsuma, but a new bud is still a sign that it’s on the road to recovery.  I sure hope it will get some more growth this year.  It needs it.

Thank you for your kind offer about fertilizer, Mrs. Clancey.  There’s no need to send any, but if you want to share your secret recipe for fertilizer with me, I’m all ears (or eyes).  You can even send it via private message if it’s really secret.   I’d be happy to learn from you as you did have an amazing tomato plant last year.  I’m getting excited about possibly getting mine in the ground at the end of this month if it’s looking to be consistently warm enough by then.  It cooled back down enough today that I lit the woodstove once again.


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## DuaeGuttae

EatenByLimestone said:


> I keep looking at prices and wondering if I should double the seeds I put in the ground this year.   It can easily become too much to tend to, but if the wheat futures are any indication of what were going to see...  yikes!



I certainly understand how one can have too much to tend to.  Maybe you shouldn’t double everything you plant but decide where you’ll save good money at the grocery store and increase that.  I figure as a rule of thumb that if I get one good harvest/meal out of a particular vegetable for our family of six, that usually covers the cost of an average seed packet for me, and usually I can get a lot more than one harvest.  (So far I haven’t managed with rhubarb, sugar snap peas, or artichokes, but I’ve got all of them growing in the garden now, so we’ll see if this season is better.)  Often when I harvest a vegetable I weigh it, then compare it to the current price per pound at the grocery store (and I don’t even use the price for organic since that’s not what we buy most frequently even though it’s largely how we grow).  We saved a lot of money last year not having to buy green beans, and I saved seeds from that variety, too, so I don’t even need to get a new packet for this year.  Shishito peppers were also a big hit, (and I wouldn’t buy them at grocery store prices).   We ate a lot fresh Shishitos but also froze some as a bell pepper substitute.  I just ran out of frozen peppers.  I only had three plants last year.  This year I plan to go up to five.


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## clancey

Your posting picture was posting #110 and I can see maybe 3 or 4 leaves on it and it looks good...at least I thought that was the orange tree starting..--with my mind anything is possible--lol lol...Well if you need any of it I will be sure to send it for you to try and it does have one drawback that I would be worried about but that's for private messaging ----thanks..I believe you are going to get more rain as well....nice...clancey


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## old greybeard

Just pulled the plastic off last year’s kale and spinach in the garden. Came thru pretty well. Was a cold pa winter. Turned the garden over and seeded spinach kale and lettuce. Putting in onions and snow peas today. Broccoli and cabbage started inside will be transferred soon. Time to start tomatoes and peppers.


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## clancey

My gosh where do you people find the energy..?  I thought a little bit about snow peas this year and just wondered how they would do?..clancey


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## EatenByLimestone

Only 1 way to find out how they'd do!


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## clancey

Is to plant some--lol----your right...clancey


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## DuaeGuttae

I took some garden pictures to send to my mother today, so thought I’d share them here, too.

An Adirondack Blue Potato popping up.



Lettuce, broccoli, and sugar snap peas



Red Creole onions (and radish seedlings in the background)



A mystery sprout that I’m thinking could be rhubarb.  I had planted a couple of rhubarb seeds in the fall and had a little plant growing in this spot when the temperatures went from 80 to 24 in one day at the beginning of January.  It froze, and there’s been nothing there for two months when all of a sudden this popped up.  I’m wondering if the rhubarb root somehow had the strength to put up a new shoot.  Does it look like rhubarb to anyone?


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## Dan Freeman

I went and bought 10 new raised beds, each 4' x 8'. I wanted cedar, but it has gotten so expensive, so I opted for stainless steel. I bought one last year and was so pleased with it, I decided to get more. I got a good price of $67 per bed. The worst part is putting them together. Each one takes 48 small nuts and bolts. I have placed them down in the food forest area and ordered 10 cubic yards of soil (1/2 top soil - 1/2 mushroom compost). I hope to start getting them filled next week. I was hoping for this week, but we got 3 inches of snow yesterday and more is expected on Saturday. They will give me another 320 square feet of planting area.




I also got the greenhouse all cleaned up and set up with my heat mats and grow lights, so I am all ready to get my seeds started which I will do on March 21st. I start everything I grow from seed. This year I am growing (not all started in the greenhouse)
Tomatoes
Peppers
Eggplants
Potatoes
Cabbages
Turnips
Beets
Squash
Cucumbers
Onions
Garlic
Melons
Basil
Parsley
Carrots
Various flowers
and probably some more.

I also bought more-than-usual organic fertilizers since they keep talking about fertilizer shortages.


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## clancey

That's just beautiful freeman and you and the other gardeners are so so very good at these things and I just think of all the work and shiver but I will get my few plants growing when I see them in home depot and they say "buy me" I'll be a good plant and have plenty--lol...Really enjoying this little gardening thread and so glad it is on this website---so that I can just enjoy it and learn as well. You got a good price on those metal holders but so so many screws--wow...what a job..clancey


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## Dan Freeman

In anticipation of starting my seeds, I went out to the shed and filled nursery trays with 120 - 4" pots for vegetables and 108 seed cells for flowers. Here's what I am figuring so far:

5 San Marzano Tomatoes
5 Tiny Tim Tomatoes
5 Early Girl Tomatoes
5 Early Treat Tomatoes
5 Gardener Delight Tomatoes
5 Rapunzel Cherry Tomatoes
5 Mountain Magic Tomatoes (aka Compari)
5 Beef Steak Tomatoes
10 Shishito Peppers
10 California Wonder Bell Peppers
10 Detroit Dark Red Beets
10 American Purple Top Turnips
5 Acorn Squash
5 Sierra Gold Cantaloupes
5 Copenhagen Cabbages
5 Early Gold Acre Cabbages
5 Black Moon Eggplants
5 Early Purple Eggplants
5 Market Moore Cucumbers
3 Genovese Basil
2 Big Italy Parsley
36 Marigolds
36 Zinnias
12 Shasta Daisies
12 Forget Me Nots
12 Assorted Butterfly Wild Flowers

and who knows, maybe some more. The bean, peas, carrots, potatoes, corn and wheat, etc. I'll direct sow.


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## Montanalocal

Dan,

Your beets, turnips and parsley can also be direct seeded.  I direct seed mine at 5000 ft. elevation in northern Montana with a 90 day growing season.  Parsley is one of the hardiest garden plants there is.  I plant mine ( along with carrots) in the late fall.  The seed lays in the soil all winter with the hard seed coat slowly becoming permeable, and they come up early in the spring.  I let my first year parsley stay in the garden over winter, and they come up in the spring as second year plants and flower and set seed.


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## Dan Freeman

Yes, I know a number of these plants can be directly seeded. I just like to get them off to a good start in my greenhouse. I have found many of what I plant does better in the long run if I do them like that.


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## Dan Freeman

We located the 10 new raised beds down in the food forest where we want them, and drove in stakes for the 13 trees, bushes and vines we're supposed to get in early April. All in all, a good day


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## clancey

I would say..lots of work here..I did some research on gardening with raised beds and so glad your"s are made of stainless steel even if you have to put a lot of screws in them.. After all you have nothing better to do than screw things together..lol  I am thinking of buying some concrete blocks of some kind and turning this into something maybe a few tomato's and maybe some green chili or something like  maybe some lettuce as well--just thinking here--lol..clancey


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## DuaeGuttae

Good work, @Dan Freeman.  You’ve got a lot in store for you getting them filled.  Have fun!

I spent time yesterday letting my younger kids play tag in the garden while I covered my little potato sprouts with piles of leaf mulch to help protect them against a sudden hard freeze we’re expecting tonight.  My husband also helped me later on to put up frost cloth over our blueberry bushes.  Just before dark tonight I put a poultry brooding lamp with a 200 W lightbulb underneath to add more heat.  I’m not worried about the bushes themselves, but they’re all in flower right now, so I wanted to try to get a crop this year.  (Some had already flowered and even set fruit in December it was so unusually warm this year.) I’m afraid that we won’t get any peaches this year again.  Here’s the view out the family room window.


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## Dan Freeman

Hope the freeze wasn't too bad, DuaeGuttae.
​


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## EatenByLimestone

Went to Sam's Club.  Splurged.   I'm such a tool to things that look neat and are on clearance.


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## DuaeGuttae

EatenByLimestone said:


> Went to Sam's Club.  Splurged.   I'm such a tool to things that look neat and are on clearance.
> 
> View attachment 293417



That will be a great tool for you for starting tomatoes.  I know you’ve struggled with getting good transplants in the past, but using the Aerogarden seed starting tray makes it quick and easy.    We were given one years ago, and I liked it so well that I found a second one used and purchased it.  I can’t believe the new prices when I see them, but I am very thankful already to own two.  It’s great that you found one on clearance.  I get a lot of use out of mine.  My tomatoes are mostly potted up now, but I have peppers and eggplant in a second, and I’m thinking of starting more herb seeds today.  I have more success making small transplants for such things than I do with direct seeding..


----------



## DuaeGuttae

Dan Freeman said:


> Hope the freeze wasn't too bad, DuaeGuttae.
> ​



Thanks.  It got cold, but it will take some time before I really see the effect on unprotected plants.  We‘re supposed to have a sunny afternoon, so I’ll turn off the brooder lamp.  I think I’ll need it again tonight, though, so the frost cloth will stay up another day.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

So, i ran into an unexpected problem.   Since this toy is automated, I need to find a spot that I can plug it in and not move it, resetting the program.   I dont know where to put it, lol.   My house is small!   

I'm really happy you like it!   I'm wondering if I should go get another now, lol.   There was a pallet of them.   But then I'd have to figure out where to put 2.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

DuaeGuttae said:


> Thanks.  It got cold, but it will take some time before I really see the effect on unprotected plants.  We‘re supposed to have a sunny afternoon, so I’ll turn off the brooder lamp.  I think I’ll need it again tonight, though, so the frost cloth will stay up another day.




Every time it gets warm here and the snow melts, we get a blizzard.   Nature is a cruel lady this year.    This morning at 5:55 I had a bird wake me up with its song for the 1st time this year.   I love bird alarm clocks!   Then the blizzard hit!   Poor bird is probably wondering what it got itself into!


----------



## DuaeGuttae

EatenByLimestone said:


> So, i ran into an unexpected problem.   Since this toy is automated, I need to find a spot that I can plug it in and not move it, resetting the program.   I dont know where to put it, lol.   My house is small!
> 
> I'm really happy you like it!   I'm wondering if I should go get another now, lol.   There was a pallet of them.   But then I'd have to figure out where to put 2.



I actually unplug mine rather frequently.  I don’t move the bases, but when I start hardening off the seedlings, I carry the water bowl outside for hours to days at a time so the seedlings get used to our sunshine before I put them in soil.  I unplug during that time.  It does mess up when the lights come on, but that’s easy to reset.  More modern versions might be “smarter” though, so that may make it harder if it’s some goofy WiFi or something.

It would be good to have a spot for it, of course.  We put our first on the corner of a bookshelf in what was supposed to be a breakfast nook but was used as our kids‘ play/school room.  They don’t take up very much room, but it can be hard to find space sometimes.  We have friends who keep one in a little entryway of a small apartment.   I do recommend keeping them where the light won’t seep into the sleeping areas since they are pretty bright.  It’s nice to have it near the kitchen if you ever use it to grow herbs.  Mostly we use it as a seed starter, but the first thing we ever grew was an herb kit that was included as the present that my sister-in-law gave to my daughter, and those grew very well.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

I looked at the regular online price and was astounded!    I never would have bought 1 at that price. 
 And since you liked it enough to buy another one I did so too.    I actually got 2 more.  I planted the 1st with basil.   I already have 2 containers with it planted/growing.  So, it sounds like a lot, but between the low light this time of the year and how fast it can be used up with 1 meal of pesto, it goes fast.  It'll be interesting to see if the miracle grow and grow lights supercharge them.    

I plan to start all my peppers and tomatoes indoors with the new growers.  Do you buy the pre-made peat starters or make your own plugs.  It doesn't look like it'd be hard to do your own.  You could even use a bit of poly fill if you don't mind picking it out of the garden later.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

I have used Aerogarden’s peat sponges if I can get them on a sale with free shipping, but I’ve also used sponges for what I think is called Park Seed Biodome as well as just some generic ones I ordered from Amazon.  I do experiment from time to time with using stretched cotton balls since they are cheaper.  It sort of depends on whether I have seeds to spare or not since the cotton doesn’t work as well.  I used sponges for tomatoes and peppers this spring but cotton balls for things that I try to get in the garden without potting up like beets or peas.  I have hopes of trying to make my own from luffa sponges this fall if I can successfully grow luffas this season.  The sponges are a recurring expense, but I figure that it really only amounts to about 10 cents per plant (or it used to with sale prices a couple of years ago—who knows with current pricing), and that still puts me far ahead of having to buy transplants.  (I about fell down the other day when I saw tomato plants on sale for $20.00 a plant.  Granted they were large plants rather than just starter cells, but still!)

I just went a took a couple of pictures for you.  The first is the Aerogarden I used for the tomatoes this season.  Four plants didn’t come up in the first batch, so I reseeded, and these are the little guys that are growing now.  I plan to put them in nursery bags next week after they get a couple of days of hardening off.




The second picture is most of my tomato transplants.  They were potted up in nursery bags one week ago.  They spent a couple days outside but have been inside for much of this week as we’ve had some cold, but they are doing well.  I like the nursery bags because they don’t get root bound and I can plant them directly in the garden.  (They’re also cheap, or used to be when I bought them.  I feel like I have to put a disclaimer on everything with prices these days.)




I usually use only one seed per sponge in the Aerogarden because I get such good germination.  A few of my sponges must have gotten two seeds stuck together, though, because I had two sprouts in three spaces.  The good thing about having an extra Aerogarden was that I could gently pluck out the second sprout and put it in a moist sponge, and it grew into a fine tomato start.  Now I have a few extra plants to give away.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

I never thought of cotton balls.  Thats a great idea!   Those tomatoes look great!   It'll be another couple of weeks before I even think of planting them!    But I decided to plant heavy this year and will be putting in a full garden.    I was going to make the garden smaller as I wasn't planting as much, now, not so much.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

EatenByLimestone said:


> I never thought of cotton balls.  Thats a great idea!   Those tomatoes look great!   It'll be another couple of weeks before I even think of planting them!    But I decided to plant heavy this year and will be putting in a full garden.    I was going to make the garden smaller as I wasn't planting as much, now, not so much.



The cotton might hold a bit too much water.  I’m not sure.  I’m still experimenting, which is why I’m curious to try luffa sponges for seed starting if I can grow some this summer.

I’m cutting down on the number of tomato plants I’m doing this year, and I’m hoping that I’m not going to regret that.  Last year the plants grew particularly well, and I had to prune and prune and prune.  I’m hoping to get more room between plants this year so that I can let the indeterminates just do their thing without as much pruning.  I’m still planting an awful lot, but we have a family of six, and I want to preserve as well as eat fresh.  It helps the grocery bill.

It has warmed up in to the sixties this afternoon, and I just put my tomatoes and peppers out on the back deck in some dappled shade.   Daytime temperatures look to be in the 70’s this week, but nights are still forecast to be a bit on the cool side.  I’m hoping to get them in the ground by the end of the month, though.  It helps to get them producing before the really high heat hits down here.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

@EatenByLimestone , another thing I should mention is that I’ve found it helpful to make templates to keep track of what I’ve planted in each spot.  I used to make copies of the little picture included in the box, but it was too small for me, so I had my daughter make me some on her drawing program.  Those files got lost, however, and so I figured out how to make some in my open source drawing program.  They’re pretty basic, but they work for helping me keep varieties straight.  I took a photo of what I used for my tomato starts this year to give you an idea.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Nice!     A piece of paper and a piece of charcoal or graphite could give an impression.    


I was looking at the peppers tonight.   Recommended planting 8-10 weeks from last frost, which is now.   I guess I should get moving on that.  It also says germination temp 80-90F.  That's not going to happen.  My house is kept in the upper 60s, lol.   I can probably tent the unit and make a greenhouse over it.


----------



## Dan Freeman

EatenByLimestone said:


> I was looking at the peppers tonight.   Recommended planting 8-10 weeks from last frost, which is now.   I guess I should get moving on that.  It also says germination temp 80-90F.  That's not going to happen.  My house is kept in the upper 60s, lol.   I can probably tent the unit and make a greenhouse over it.


They will still germinate at the upper 60's. It will just take a little longer. When I plant my pepper seeds in my greenhouse, I keep the temps in the upper 50's at night. (Too costly to keep the temps higher.) It takes about twice as long for the peppers to germinate, but they grow very well after that.

I'll be starting all my seeds in my greenhouse next weekend. That gives me about 8 weeks until our last frost. I've been dreaming about this day for months!


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Good to know about the germination!    I'm actually reading the packets this year so I don't screw things up this time!  I ordered a temp controlled seed mat that I can wrap around the aerogarden.   

Its neat watching the basil seeds from the top without soil.   They all turned a white blue.   I've never seen that before.  Hopefully they sprout soon.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

Dan Freeman said:


> I'll be starting all my seeds in my greenhouse next weekend. That gives me about 8 weeks until our last frost. I've been dreaming about this day for months!



That will be one exciting day!


----------



## DuaeGuttae

EatenByLimestone said:


> Good to know about the germination!    I'm actually reading the packets this year so I don't screw things up this time!  I ordered a temp controlled seed mat that I can wrap around the aerogarden.
> 
> Its neat watching the basil seeds from the top without soil.   They all turned a white blue.   I've never seen that before.  Hopefully they sprout soon.



Another option for you would be presprouting seeds.  I do occasionally for heat lovers soak seeds overnight, then drain the excess water and leave the seeds sealed in a glass jar until they show signs of a little tap root.  I can then carefully drop them in the sponges in the Aerogarden and let them go from there.  I haven’t had to do that with peppers (they germinate fine for me but my indoor temperatures are in the 70s during the day this time of year, though they do drop into the 60s overnight).  I did need to do it with Roselle (Hibiscus) and Okra last year (after failed attempts without enough heat, I think).  My mother in Virginia, however, puts pepper seeds in a plastic bag with a moist paper towel to test their germination.  She then sets those on the mantel above her woodstove.  Once they show little roots she moves them to small pots with compost. 

@begreen taught me about presprouting corn seeds before direct seeding a couple of years ago.  That has really helped my germination rates with corn and okra.  I’ve pretty much adopted it as standard practice for my large seeds.

@EatenByLimestone, your posts about basil reminded me to get some started.  I put some seeds in sponges yesterday.  I love checking on them and watching as they develop roots and shoots.  Basil grows super well down here, but I have a hard time getting it established from seed in my garden.  I just can’t keep the top of the soil moist enough with our intense sun.  It does fine as a transplant, and I love giving away basil bouquets in the summer.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

I was in Walmart today for some packing tape and wandered over to the garden section.  Their seed prices fell to that of the mail order places!   Burped organic for $2.17/ packet.  Regular about .20 less.  I like the guys I deal with online, but if I need something in a pinch, it'll be easy to find.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

So, the basil planted a couple days ago has started to sprout!   Its so neat watching these seeds on the surface!   I wonder how long it'll take to get first leaves?  The seeds were planted Saturday afternoon.


----------



## clancey

Sounds wonderful "limestone" and I am afraid to go to the garden section of walmart or even home depot for what I might bring home for me to have more work to do..lol  The day is coming for me to buy a plant or two and I make it like a vacation day just looking around..lol  nice posting..clancey


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Thoughts of gardens get addictive this time of year.   When the dog starts tracking mud all over the house, I start looking at the beds and try to figure out what I want to do with them this year.


----------



## Dan Freeman

OK, I admit it. I couldn't wait, so I started some seeds today. 40 Tomatoes, 20 peppers, and 10 Eggplants. 







I also got the energizer for the electric fence around the food forest hooked up in my shed and the wires run down to the field. Now, I just have to get going on the fence!


----------



## EatenByLimestone

40 tomatoes!   Wow!   You must be making sauce!    

I'm jealous of the land!   I'd love to explore the food forest idea more.   I use my peach tree as trellis, but that's not the same, lol.  Its fun to see cucumbers hanging down from the branches though.


----------



## Dan Freeman

We make sauce from the San Marzano tomatoes. Of course, we eat a lot and give a lot away during the season. We also dehydrate and freeze dry many of them for winter cooking. Don't know how much property you have, but I have seen modified food forests done in just a side yard of a suburban home.


----------



## Dan Freeman

We moved 3 of the fruit trees we planted last summer down onto more level ground and pruned all the apple, peach, pear, mulberry and filbert trees. I find it "scary" to prune. My nature says, "don't take too much off", but everything I read and have watched on YouTube says prune the heck out of them, so the trees don't control you, you control the trees. We want to keep the trees manageable and in the best shape to bear the fruit without putting strain on the branches. Still nerve racking taking 2/3's of the tree off!


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Dan Freeman said:


> We moved 3 of the fruit trees we planted last summer down onto more level ground and pruned all the apple, peach, pear, mulberry and filbert trees. I find it "scary" to prune. My nature says, "don't take too much off", but everything I read and have watched on YouTube says prune the heck out of them, so the trees don't control you, you control the trees. We want to keep the trees manageable and in the best shape to bear the fruit without putting strain on the branches. Still nerve racking taking 2/3's of the tree off!




Yeah, the trees almost look dead by the time the pruning is done.  

We grow san marzanos too.   They produce well for us!


----------



## Dan Freeman

EatenByLimestone said:


> Yeah, the trees almost look dead by the time the pruning is done.
> 
> We grow san marzanos too.   They produce well for us!


One year we switched to Roma's, but I didn't think they make as good a sauce, so we went back to the San Marzano's. As we pick them, we freeze them. Once the season is over, we have 1-gallon bags full of them. Once defrosted, the skins come off easily, no blanching required.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

I've tried Romas too.    We didn't get the production out of them.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

Dan Freeman said:


> OK, I admit it. I couldn't wait, so I started some seeds today. 40 Tomatoes, 20 peppers, and 10 Eggplants.
> 
> View attachment 293613
> 
> 
> I also got the energizer for the electric fence around the food forest hooked up in my shed and the wires run down to the field. Now, I just have to get going on the fence!
> 
> View attachment 293614



And earlier I had been going to remark that I admired your forbearance on planting seeds!

Actually, I think it makes sense to change when one starts or transplants based on time available, weather and soil conditions, and experimentation.  

Your food forest looks amazing.  I found all of your ten new raised beds, even though they kind of disappear in the vast expanse of land shown there.  The square footage of just those beds exceeds the entirety of what we call our “main garden” beds, though we did expand last year into a “new garden” plot with the addition of four large raised beds that we received from new neighbors who didn’t want a garden area.  I‘m glad for you to have so much space to grow, but I know you’ll be working hard this spring to fill those beds and fence that space.

One of my goals is to find a sauce tomato that does well in our heat, but I will make sauce out of just about any tomato that produces for me.  The two I’m trying for this season are Marzano Fire (an offspring of San Marzano) and Heidi, a variety that hails from Cameroon.  I was very thankful to be given seeds for that last summer and am looking forward to trying it this year.  Cherry tomatoes do particularly well down here, so I even use those in salsa and sauce, but I’d prefer to have more dedicated sauce types.  We also enjoy dried tomatoes of all sorts.


----------



## Montanalocal

Two specialty tomato seed sellers are the following.  They specialize in tomatoes from all over the world.  I get all my tomatoes from them.

TomatoFest-  /

Totally Tomatoes-  /


----------



## Dan Freeman

Yes, we are so lucky to have the land. We have about 8+ acres, mostly wooded. When we first moved here 27 years ago, the woods grew right up to about 30 feet from the back of the house. We cleared a lot of it the first few years until it looked like this:




But due to the upkeep, we have let the back half go back to nature.

Chitting my potatoes: Russets, Red, and Golden


----------



## Dan Freeman

Montanalocal said:


> Two specialty tomato seed sellers are the following.  They specialize in tomatoes from all over the world.  I get all my tomatoes from them.
> 
> TomatoFest-  /
> 
> Totally Tomatoes-  /


I have a friend on the National Gardening Association Forum who buys her tomato seeds from Totally Tomatoes, and swears by their quality and variety.


----------



## Dan Freeman

Rainy day, so I couldn't do much outside. I got another 58 pots started with seeds.
18 Zinnias
18 Marigolds
14 Shasta Daisies
4 Parsley
4 Basil

This puts me up to 128 pots with seeds. Still more to go.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

I noticed green leaves starting on the basil planted Saturday.    Absolutely amazing how fast it’s coming along.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

Dan Freeman said:


> Rainy day, so I couldn't do much outside. I got another 58 pots started with seeds.
> 18 Zinnias
> 18 Marigolds
> 14 Shasta Daisies
> 4 Parsley
> 4 Basil
> 
> This puts me up to 128 pots with seeds. Still more to go.



We need a rainy day down here in south central Texas.  We’re back in drought conditions, though thankfully the high heat hasn’t hit yet.

It was actually a beautiful afternoon today, so I sat out on our back deck in the shade of a large Live Oak and potted up some peppers and eggplant.  I have a few more that need to grow more roots, but I wanted to get some into soil today before their roots get too, too long.  (Starting them hydroponically encourages long root growth.)

Yesterday I potted up just a few tomatoes (pictured with the peppers).  Unfortunately I broke the stem of one of my only two small cherry plants.  I buried it deep and have hopes that it will revive.  I can start another if I need to, but I wanted to give this one a couple of days to show me whether it will recover.  It also just dawned on me that if this one doesn’t do well, I can plant a sucker from my other plant later in the season.




I didn’t do anything with my sweet potato slips today other than check on and admire them.  My husband helped me rotate the planter yesterday to increase sun exposure to the other side.  We’ll see if that encourages more growth.  Overall, though, I’m very pleased.  I’ll have enough slips for myself and to give to my neighbors.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

EatenByLimestone said:


> I noticed green leaves starting on the basil planted Saturday.    Absolutely amazing how fast it’s coming along.



Congratulations!  It’s great in spring, but you’ll love it in the winter, too, when that little growth is especially cheering.  One downside of having spring and fall growing seasons down here in Texas is that I use the Aerogardens so much for seed starting that I really don’t grow any plants in them any more.   I have used them in the height of summer, though, to grow some lettuce inside when it’s too hot outside.  I might have to try to sneak in a basil crop in December and January, though.  I was missing it when I used my frozen tomatoes for sauce.

As I was potting up my peppers today, I thought I might mention to you that a large pair of tweezers is really helpful for removing the small starts from the tray.  I have a pair with a curved point, and I stab the side of the sponge with them and pull it out.

Also, I thought I’d mention that I do occasionally find sponges from failed transplants in my garden beds.  They don’t always disintegrate in the soil if there hasn’t been a lot of root growth through them, and I will bring those back into the house.  Once I have a collection of them, I sterilize them with boiling water and reuse them.  It seems to work just fine.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Great tip with the tweezers!   I haven't gotten that far in my thinking yet, lol.   My heat pad arrived, so I got my peppers and tomatoes started.  I just have the tubs sitting on the pad.  It fits 2 of them.  A probe is snaked into 1 of them for temp control.  Once they sprout I can move them over to the aerogardens to take advantage of the light and circulation pump.  I haven't added fertilizer either.

I imagine we'll use the aerogardens all year since they can grow herbs, green onions, etc.


----------



## Dan Freeman

Today we got 6 of the 10 raised gardens ready for soil by lining the bottoms with cardboard and a few inches of wood chips. We also finished taking out the old garden fence on the left side of the picture (red outline). For size reference, that old garden was 30 x 20 (600 square feet).
	

		
			
		

		
	






Here is what that garden looked like when we used to use it years ago.


----------



## clancey

That's looking really good and lots of work you have done...I am working on other things right now but will be getting my few plants real soon and I am going to put them right into the ground after I turn the soil over--might be awhile--lol...Good for you and "everyone's garden projects look really good and hoping for 'everyone' to have plenty of good tasting organic food--so nice to see all your products as you get ready for this year of gardening...interesting as well..."keep an eye on that nut tree you planted"--let me know about how that is doing...Yes...clancey


----------



## DuaeGuttae

Dan Freeman said:


> Today we got 6 of the 10 raised gardens ready for soil by lining the bottoms with cardboard and a few inches of wood chips. We also finished taking out the old garden fence on the left side of the picture (red outline). For size reference, that old garden was 30 x 20 (600 square feet).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 293680
> 
> 
> Here is what that garden looked like when we used to use it years ago.
> 
> View attachment 293681




That 20 x 30 outline is about the size of our “main garden” area.  It has eleven raised beds and a few pots/planters.  There are four larger raised beds in the “new garden” space, and that increased our vegetable growing space a lot.  We have trees and berry bushes in other areas.  Everything I plant I have to water, though, so I can only plant so much.

The raised beds up closer to the front of the photo, are those what you’ve been using for your garden in more recent years?  They look really nice.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

clancey said:


> That's looking really good and lots of work you have done...I am working on other things right now but will be getting my few plants real soon and I am going to put them right into the ground after I turn the soil over--might be awhile--lol...Good for you and "everyone's garden projects look really good and hoping for 'everyone' to have plenty of good tasting organic food--so nice to see all your products as you get ready for this year of gardening...interesting as well..."keep an eye on that nut tree you planted"--let me know about how that is doing...Yes...clancey



All our talk about starting seeds and working beds is giving you spring fever,  Mrs. Clancey.  If you’re buying transplants, don’t get too eager and set them out before your danger of frost is past.  I don’t know your area exactly, but I did a quick check, and it looks like Denver gets frost until late April or even early May.  A good frost will kill a tomato plant.  I think we’re past danger of frost down here in south central Texas, but our forecast still has some nights in the 30’s in the coming days.  I won’t be planning to put my plants in the ground for at least a couple of weeks yet, though they are spending warm days outside (and the occasional warm night).


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Mrs Clancy, have you looked at square foot gardening?   It’s a way to get a lot of production out of a very small area.    It’s a pretty neat way to plant a garden.


----------



## clancey

This gardening has a lot more to it then one would think and I did not know about frost and will keep an eye on the weather forecast and that square foot gardening I will check out on the net. When I get my few little plants I will take a picture of them for you--lol--like if you never saw plants..lol..Enjoying and thanks...clancey


----------



## DuaeGuttae

EatenByLimestone said:


> Mrs Clancy, have you looked at square foot gardening?   It’s a way to get a lot of production out of a very small area.    It’s a pretty neat way to plant a garden.



There is a book called _Square Foot Gardening_ by a man named Mel Bartholomew.  It has a lot of good information in it, and it was the resource that I used to built my first trellises when we had a small yard and tiny garden beds in Northern Virginia.  Those worked great, though, for letting me grow abundant pickling cucumbers and other vegetables in that small space. The frames for those trellises moved with us to Texas.  I replaced the torn nylon netting with some free woven wire fencing we were given, and I still use the trellises every year.  I plan to move two to my backyard bed this year and grow luffa sponges on them.  Your local library may well have a copy of the book that you could borrow.   There is, of course, also a lot of information on the web.


----------



## Dan Freeman

I remember when HGTV had a lot of gardening shows....about 20-25 years ago...before they went to all house shows. (They should take the "G" out and just call the network HTV!) Mel Bartholomew even had a weekly show. I use to love their gardening shows. I learned so much.

Today, we got all the remnants of that garden fence moved to the dump in the back of the property. The food forest fencing begins on Monday. More pics to come.


----------



## clancey

Thanks everyone and those were the days--long gone---refers to the gardening shows of yesteryear..If I knew that I was going to stay here I would do something permanent but I do not know at this time and as you all suggest I look up things and try to learn "little bits"--not getting too involved at this point but I write everything down for future references if "life carries on in my life"..and in the mean while its just plain "fun" to read up with everything you people are up to in the way of gardening...What is chitting? in regard to potato's anyway--easier to get a simple answer for I am a lazy gardener at this point-lol ...All your ideas are just plain good...enjoying..I have been on that website that Montanalocal suggested and its neat so I thought I would copy some of it on here for you all to see---all kinds of tomato's--I love tomato's and also Basil too...clancey




__





						Organic Heirloom Tomato Seeds | Heirloom Tomatoes TomatoFest
					





					www.tomatofest.com


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Chitting is cutting the eyes off that grow on a potato.   The freshly cut surfaces are then dried out to stop them from rotting.


----------



## clancey

Thanks...I looked it up but I spelled it wrong and it gave me 56 words that are made out of chiting--its two T.s  and I figured it was when a potato was cut in half-lol but now I know--thanks,,clancey


----------



## begreen

EatenByLimestone said:


> Chitting is cutting the eyes off that grow on a potato.   The freshly cut surfaces are then dried out to stop them from rotting.


No chit!


----------



## Dan Freeman

clancey said:


> Thanks everyone and those were the days--long gone---refers to the gardening shows of yesteryear..If I knew that I was going to stay here I would do something permanent but I do not know at this time and as you all suggest I look up things and try to learn "little bits"--not getting too involved at this point but I write everything down for future references if "life carries on in my life"..and in the mean while its just plain "fun" to read up with everything you people are up to in the way of gardening...What is chitting? in regard to potato's anyway--easier to get a simple answer for I am a lazy gardener at this point-lol ...All your ideas are just plain good...enjoying..I have been on that website that Montanalocal suggested and its neat so I thought I would copy some of it on here for you all to see---all kinds of tomato's--I love tomato's and also Basil too...clancey
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Organic Heirloom Tomato Seeds | Heirloom Tomatoes TomatoFest
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.tomatofest.com


Chitting it is a way of preparing potatoes for planting by encouraging them to sprout before planting in the ground. This gives the tubers a head start and encourages faster growth and heavier crops once the seed potatoes are planted.

Here's a good article on the subject: 
Chitting Potatoes Gives Them a Head Start​


----------



## Dan Freeman

I just went out to the greenhouse to water my pots and to my surprise, I already have tomato plants breaking through, only 5 days after planting the seeds! I attribute this to the pots I am using this year. I switched from peat pots to plastic pots. The peat pots did not absorb and hold the heat from the seedling heat mats well, but the plastic pots do. Now, my worry is will I have to up pot them before they are ready to plant outside.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> No chit!


Good to see you in this thread again, Begreen.  It hasn’t been the same without your reports and photos the past few weeks.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

Dan Freeman said:


> I just went out to the greenhouse to water my pots and to my surprise, I already have tomato plants breaking through, only 5 days after planting the seeds! I attribute this to the pots I am using this year. I switched from peat pots to plastic pots. The peat pots did not absorb and hold the heat from the seedling heat mats well, but the plastic pots do. Now, my worry is will I have to up pot them before they are ready to plant outside.



Potting up is one of the things I don’t actually enjoy about gardening.  My husband helped me do the tomatoes this year, and that made it a lot better.  I had few enough peppers that it didn’t seem burdensome.  I just don’t enjoy filling little containers with soil and getting the small plants situated.  I really enjoy it when it’s done, though, and the plants begin to take off.  Some of my tomatoes are probably a foot high by now, and I have noticed roots poking through the sides of the nursery bags.  Depending on the forecast and the actual temperatures I see at our house this week, I may put the tomatoes in the ground next Saturday.

I was disappointed to discover yesterday in my garden that my Lacinato/Dinosaur/Tuscan kale seedlings that I planted last month all seem to have burned up and died.  (Actually a couple had already succumbed to pests).  Everyone is my household has been sick this week with either strep throat or the flu or even both at the same time in some cases, and I’ve been busy getting everyone to the doctor or picking up prescriptions at the pharmacy before getting sick myself.  I didn’t, therefore, check on the garden much, and I guess the hot sun this week got to the kale, and I didn’t notice and rescue it with surface water.  That tells me that the roots weren’t very well developed since they couldn’t get moisture from my ollas.  Now I’ll have to figure out whether to replant or to try something else.  It’s already past the frost date here, and spring can get warm quickly for many greens.  I may end up eating broccoli and cauliflower leaves if those don’t set heads soon.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

I love broccoli leaves!   I was so saddened to find out they were trendy!   I had the same reaction when Brussels sprouts got popular. 

I’m going to up my game and challenge them with Lima beans!

Can you direct sow the kale?   It grows fast enough and germinates quickly enough I’ve never done it another way.


----------



## begreen

DuaeGuttae said:


> Good to see you in this thread again, Begreen.  It hasn’t been the same without your reports and photos the past few weeks.


I am running behind this season. The tomatoes and broccoli has sprouted and the fresno peppers. I have been starting to wake up beds.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

EatenByLimestone said:


> I love broccoli leaves!   I was so saddened to find out they were trendy!   I had the same reaction when Brussels sprouts got popular.
> 
> I’m going to up my game and challenge them with Lima beans!
> 
> Can you direct sow the kale?   It grows fast enough and germinates quickly enough I’ve never done it another way.



Trendy!  You have got to be kidding me!  I had no idea.  

I haven’t succeeded in growing Brussels sprouts down here in Texas yet, but we enjoy those, too.  I knew that they have made inroads in recent years, which I actually appreciate since I prefer to buy them fresh.  (I think frozen Brussels sprouts are what gave the vegetable its bad name.)

I love Lima beans, too, but I’ve never tried growing those.  There are too many good vegetables to fit them all in my garden.  They would do well in our heat, though.

I used to do a lot more direct sowing of plants in Virginia than I do down here in Texas.  I’ve had a lot of failures with things that I always used to direct sow.  I’d prefer to do it that way, but I think the sun just dries my soil so fast that unless it’s a crop that wants to be planted pretty deeply, it’s better for me to start in my Aerogarden.  I actually had six empty sponges in the one I’m using at the moment, so I decided to put Kale in three and Komatsuna in three.  I’ve never grown the latter before, but I received some free seeds this spring, and it reportedly matures quickly, so I may have time to get in a few harvests before the heat comes on too strong.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> I am running behind this season. The tomatoes and broccoli has sprouted and the fresno peppers. I have been starting to wake up beds.



I understand.  I keep having to remind myself that it’s till pretty early in the season, too.  I’ll look forward to your beautiful pictures later in this summer.


----------



## clancey

Why not direct seeding if you could time it right for the area?  Heck that's what I want to do is dig the ground and put seeds in the garden area and see what happens..--lazy gardener I am and I found this article on the net...a more simple one I think...the article...clancey




__





						Direct Seeding Guidelines | Johnny's Selected Seeds
					

Follow these guidelines for success when direct seeding crops into the garden or field. Detailed instructions + how to address common post-germination issues.




					www.johnnyseeds.com


----------



## begreen

Some crops direct seed well, others are much better off to plant from starts. A seedling is weak and vulnerable. It can fail due to low soil temps, diseases at the surface of the soil, heavy rain or hail, bugs or birds eating them, etc. And some plants have a long growing season so they need a head start unless one lives in the tropics. For this reason we start most seeds inside. The exceptions are vigorous growers and deep root plants like corn, beans, radishes, beets, etc. Peas will start in the ground here without problem, except that birds love the seedlings, sparrows especially. They can also get attacked by wireworms so I will start them inside and then cover them after transplanting until they get over 6" tall.


----------



## clancey

Texas had some pretty rough weather and just wondering how you and your plants are doing? clancey


----------



## DuaeGuttae

clancey said:


> Texas had some pretty rough weather and just wondering how you and your plants are doing? clancey



Yes, there was definitely rough weather in much of the state, but most of it was north and east of where we live.  We were very thankful to get one quarter inch of gentle rain.  It was the first time that a number of my young plants had ever seen actual rain, and they sure looked like they liked it.  The danger of wildfire is high here, but thankfully I know of nothing close by.  We are praying for folks who have been hit hard by storms and fires.

My sweet potato slips are growing long.  Unfortunately I just spotted some aphids on some of the the leaves and stems, so I mixed up a quart bottle with some water and neem oil and gave them a good spraying.  I sprayed the tomatoes, peppers, and other seedlings that have been spending nights nearby.  I didn’t see aphids on them, but I don’t want to give them a foothold.


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## Dan Freeman

We filled 3 of the new raised beds with the 50/50 soil mix, peat moss and vermiculite today. If the rain holds off tomorrow, we'll plant 6 dozen seedling potatoes in them.


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## EatenByLimestone

I was about to whine that it was taking my tomato and pepper seeds too long to sprout.   I just looked at them and the tomatoes have popped!   I guess it’s time to move them to light!


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## Dan Freeman

Good news, Limestone. I got all the fruit trees fertilized yesterday and 200 feet of hose run down to the field, so I don't have to lug water down there. I'm hoping to put an underground line in later this summer if I have the time. Hoping I can get the raspberries, blackberries and blueberries done today. Each takes a different fertilizer.


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## EatenByLimestone

I’ve never had to fertilize the raspberries.   They were planted in heavy leaf mound though.    That might have taken care of everything.


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## Dan Freeman

I have never fertilized our wild raspberries and they do just fine. Since I paid a lot for these particular cultivars, I figured I would fertilize them as well. I got all 9 berry plants pruned and fertilized today. Also, got down some more cardboard and wood chips over the Zoysia grass in the food forest. Now all 20 trees and bushes have been pruned and fertilized. 13 more arriving in the next week to 10 days.


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## gggvan

what is the best approach for last years dead growth in my pollenator's garden? cut it all away, or let it alone?


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## EatenByLimestone

If it’s only for pollinators, you’ll want to cut the dead away.   If for other wildlife like birds/bunnies, etc you’ll want to leave the cover.


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## EatenByLimestone

I found a really nice seed starter tray today made by Burpee.    It’s a reusable hard plastic like rubber made totes with silicone bottoms.  They put a lot of thought into it.   I hope to start the okra in them after the peppers germinate


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## DuaeGuttae

EatenByLimestone said:


> I found a really nice seed starter tray today made by Burpee.    It’s a reusable hard plastic like rubber made totes with silicone bottoms.  They put a lot of thought into it.   I hope to start the okra in them after the peppers germinate
> 
> View attachment 293959
> View attachment 293960
> View attachment 293961



Those do look nice with the squishy bottoms.

I start okra inside sometimes, and sometimes I just sprout the seeds inside and then direct sow so as to avoid disturbing the long taproot.    If that root gets disturbed, okra really can sulk.  It also really sulks if temperatures are too low, so I can’t imagine you would want it out before, maybe, Memorial Day where you are.  It usually matures in about two months from germination, so you don’t really need to rush the way you might for a tomato that takes three months from transplant.

My okra probably won’t get planted till about the middle of May because I’ll need to harvest garlic first to have the beds available.   I’m giving more space to okra this year because we eat up all I grow.  I’d really like to freeze some.  I saved seeds last year from a really productive Heavy Hitter Okra plant, so I’m hoping its offspring will be similarly vigorous.


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## Dan Freeman

Decided to buy some 4 x 16 cattle panels from Tractor Supply and build some arched trellises to grow my cantaloupe, acorn squash, cucumbers, and perhaps grapes on. I was watching some YouTube's last night where folks even grow watermelons and pumpkins this way. Keeping them off the ground appears to cut down on so many problems and saves space. I'll only be able to get 2 at a time, so I'll have to make a few trips. The only local place I could find that delivers is Lowe's, but they charge more per panel and want $80 to deliver them.


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## DuaeGuttae

Dan Freeman said:


> Decided to buy some 4 x 16 cattle panels from Tractor Supply and build some arched trellises to grow my cantaloupe, acorn squash, cucumbers, and perhaps grapes on. I was watching some YouTube's last night where folks even grow watermelons and pumpkins this way. Keeping them off the ground appears to cut down on so many problems and saves space. I'll only be able to get 2 at a time, so I'll have to make a few trips. The only local place I could find that delivers is Lowe's, but they charge more per panel and want $80 to deliver them.



We love our arched trellises (made from 4 x 16 cattle panels from Tractor supply as a matter of fact).  We’ve used them for cucumbers, tomatoes, watermelon, pumpkin, and sweet potatoes.  We don’t grow huge pumpkins, but growing vertically helps a lot in our raised beds.

Here’s a picture of a Seminole pumpkin to which I gave some extra support last fall when we were expecting storms.




These are the new garden beds we were given last summer just after we added the arched trellises.  We grew cowpeas up them last year both for harvest and for soil improvement in the new beds.



The heat and sun can be intense down here in summers, and standing under covered arches is almost like a refuge.  Cherry tomatoes do particularly well down here, and it’s fun to harvest them from overhead.




This was our tomato arch last year.  It had indeterminates on the far side and determinaties on the near side.  Our pumpkin that was growing in a small bed with a vertical trellis kind of took over the determinate side, and I let it, though I don’t believe it set any fruit on the arch at that point.  We did harvest and fry some flowers, though.  I loved them, the kids not as much.


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## Dan Freeman

That looks great, DuaeGuttae. Nice gardens. 👍


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## EatenByLimestone

Yeah, as mine mature they start looking more overgrown and ratty.


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## clancey

Well i worked so hard on my "farming" for I got my three plants in the container until I can place them outside. This gardening is hard work...I bought a Big Boy tomato and a mint plant and some lettuce too. These three plants were dying and just called to me to water them...I am fixing my special food up for them too and after they look more "sturdy" I will give them some food. pictures coming...clancey


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## EatenByLimestone

Excellent!     Be careful with the mint!   You may want to keep it in its own container.  It has a tendency to overtake everything.  Its a perennial too, so you likely will never have to plant it again!


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## clancey

Well that's nice to know and could I keep it in the same container that it is in now and would it do okay?  I love mint and it helps to settle my stomach so just wondering..When I take the tomato and lettuce outside can I just keep the mint in the container that it is in--the planter...That particular plant seems to be thriving okay...The lettuce has fluffy leaves that tear easy and could I cut some of them off for a salad--now and will it continue to grow okay... That porch has no heat and it can get really cold at night time and i have a oil filled heater and should I put this on low for the "babies", those little s---- better thrive for I am not very experience with all of this and here are some pictures of the three of them...Thanks..clancey


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## EatenByLimestone

Yeah, don't worry about hurting the mint.  It'll take anything you can throw at it.   Freezing Temps might do it in since it was just transplanted, but give it a week and throw whatever at it.

Your lettuce is a cold weather plant.  It'll do well in cooler r weather and will probably bolt once it gets warmer.   Tear or cut off the outer keaves to enjoy!

Your tomato is the only one you're going to havevto worry about as it does not like cold Temps.


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## DuaeGuttae

EatenByLimestone said:


> Yeah, as mine mature they start looking more overgrown and ratty.



Most of those pictures were from the beginning of summer.  Things certainly look worse later in the season, and I start pulling plants when they get too diseased or stop bearing.  Last year was unusually rainy and cool, so it was a great garden year for me.


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## DuaeGuttae

@clancey , have fun with your new plants.  I thought I’d post a link to a pretty good video about the “cut and come again” method for harvesting lettuce.  You might just want to leave the lettuce in one planter and the mint in the other.  The lettuce will appreciate being kept cool as it warms up this spring.



Tomatoes handle transplanting fairly well, but they do appreciate being kept warm.  If your porch holds on to some of the day’s heat overnight, it will probably be okay, but if it drops to lower 40’s or 30’s, you could consider offering some heat.  It might be more economical to purchase a small plant heat mat to put directly under the planter and run that overnight rather than trying to heat the air with a space heater.   If I remember correctly, though, your porch has insulation under the slab, so that might make things better.   @begreen, what do you think?


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## clancey

That video was neat and today I will have me some lettuce just taking off a few leaves like the first part of the video for to me it looks too "fluffy" , so its time to eat some...I will keep it in the container and really think it might like my porch..Now you gave me extra farm work for I need to move my beautiful little mint plant to the other container..and then move my tomato "outside"., in time..That's a good idea about the plant individual type of heater--wondering if a heating pad on low would help?..For I do have two of them "might as well use them"..The porch is insulated floor and sides and roof but without heat it can get down right "cold in there"...This time of year maybe about 35 degrees or there about.., but its cold and now this morning it was comfortable as I checked out the plantee"s--my word...they seen to be happy and I guess I will have two indoor plants and one outside  so far and after I dig up the soil outside  and turn it over I am thinking of planting "peppers" and maybe a few other things for this year...These plants get the eastern sun in the morning and the southern sun in the early afternoon as well as the strong western sun in late afternoon so I figure they might have enough of sun..might have to adjust the blinds for that strong afternoon sun but I am checking it out...thanks...appreciate... One thing about growing your own plants for you know that it is truly organic with no poisons and this lettuce I will wash and wash and then eat...a few leaves...I love basil too but they did not have any just yet..Thanks limestone and I moved my tomato out further from the window at night--the plants seem happy so far until I go in with small scissors for the lettuce one so we will see and I will let you know how I think the leaves "taste"--they call it gourmet lettuce?   clancey


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## DuaeGuttae

You can move your mint to the other planter, but I wouldn’t worry about it (unless you’ve already done it, in which case no harm done).  It will coexist with the lettuce right now, and the lettuce isn’t going to last all summer. 

Watch for nightly lows to be around 50 degrees before you put your tomato out.  

Basil is another plant that doesn’t like low temperatures.  It will show up in stores pretty soon, I would think, but you could also get a pack of seeds and sow them in your tomato planter now and transplant when you put the tomato out (or just leave the plants in the planter).

If your heating pads are the kind used for people for aches and pains, they might get too hot for the plants.  They also aren’t usually made to be left on unattended as plant mats are.  I’m thinking of something like this that is also waterproof.









						VIVOHOME 10 in. x 20.75 in. Waterproof Seedling Heat Mat X001J8PKTJ - The Home Depot
					

Sprout seeds faster and more reliably with the VIVOHOME seedling heat mat. Simply place under a planter with seeds ready to grow and watch them sprout quickly and vigorously. This heat mat increases the



					www.homedepot.com
				




I looked up ”Big Boy” tomato this morning just to learn more about it.  It sounds like a good one.  I thought you might enjoy this article that gives a little history.  (Don’t be alarmed by the term “hybrid.”  Some people confuse that with genetic modification, but it’s not at all the same thing.  Hybrid plants are safe and productive; you just can’t save seeds.)





__





						Origin of Big Boy Tomato Hybrid | Walter Reeves: The Georgia Gardener
					

This was written by Gerald Klingaman, retired Extension Horticulturist - University of Arkansas Origin of Big Boy Tomato Agriculture has gone through a number of technological revolutions, but few have been as dramatic as was the introduction of hybrid seeds. While hybrid corn is the classic...




					www.walterreeves.com


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## clancey

Great I will read all that this afternoon but right now need to pick up birdie seed. I never planted seeds and I will buy a packet of seeds for basil to put in my boxes until they go outside...The little heater "oil filled" work very well on a real low temperature..It was 57 degrees this morning and my "babies" are looking pretty darn good...I used the heater for only about four hours and it kept everything really nice...Yea hybrid scared me thanks for the explaining...thanks  clancey


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## DuaeGuttae

clancey said:


> Great I will read all that this afternoon but right now need to pick up birdie seed. I never planted seeds and I will buy a packet of seeds for basil to put in my boxes until they go outside...The little heater "oil filled" work very well on a real low temperature..It was 57 degrees this morning and my "babies" are looking pretty darn good...I used the heater for only about four hours and it kept everything really nice...Yea hybrid scared me thanks for the explaining...thanks  clancey



Running that heater on low for four hours sounds just about perfect then.

All our discussion of cutting lettuce inspired me.  I went out and harvested some lettuce for my five year old this afternoon.  He’s sick but was up for eating some salad (he loves salad), so it was a great treat to harvest some lettuce, parsley, and a green onion to make something special for him.


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## EatenByLimestone

Mrs Clancy, have you looked at growing millet for your birds?


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## Dan Freeman

We started driving posts into the ground today for our food forest. We did the 85 foot stretch closest to the house. The corners require 5 posts since the fence will “pull in” in at the corners. We bought special hardware for the corners to attach the diagonal posts. The diagonal braces keep the corner posts from being pulled in. Along the 85 foot stretch we alternated 2 – 6’ posts (driven 1.5’ into the ground) and 1 – 8’ post (driven 1.5’ into the ground). The fence will be 4.5 feet high and have electric fence attached to it, but we will run wires between the 8-foot posts (6.5’ high) to keep deer out. Hope that makes sense. BTW…the compressor-driven tool we bought to drive the posts in was worth every penny we paid for it. Only 285 more feet of stakes to put in, and then we can run the fencing.


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## EatenByLimestone

Looks great!    I need to redo some fencing this year.    Nothing like yours, lol.   I just need to keep some bunnies and a curious golden retriever out.

I use a Vivosun grow mat the same size as mentioned above.  Mine has a thermostat/probe attachment.   It cost less than $40 off Amazon and has worked great so far.


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## clancey

Everything looks just wonderful and that trellis is just beautiful as well and it would be good for me to have something like that extending from my back door to the back door of the pigeon loft and its about 30 feet long in distance and 48 inches wide..but not this year..I need more experience with growing plants..But it sure is beautiful and yes Limestone I thought about this for the future because I just bet millet would grow good here as well as sunflower plants but would have to hire out this job so I will push it off for now for the future thinking..But that;s a wonderful suggestion..I just got nine bags of pigeon seed in (50 lbs each) (Bought extra because of the political climate) and almost had a heart attack with the price---377.90 and I did buy extra just to be safe..I am making a batch of food up for my plants and it is drying out right now on cooking sheets outside--my secret recipe..Down the road if you people want to try out some of this for "inside" plants--I stress that because of it might attract predators like skunks and coyotes., and other things as well..lol-. I will use it on my garden outside when it is time and we will see how my secret recipe does and if it does well I will send you each a little bag of it to try out when you message me your e-mail and I will send you mine as well..Just a thought...I fixed my lettuce hoping I did not kill it and went by the video on how he did it and my plant looks "sick" now but look at all I got and I am going to have a salad too with onion and parsley too and tomato's too and some cucumbers as well and I also throw some olives in too...cleaning out my ice box today...My gosh freeman you have so much work to do but it sure will be beautiful in the end--patience does it so take a easy too and don't overstretch yourself even at your young age--have a cold beer and a roast beef sandwiche with cheese--stretch out the time young man..My new pictures are coming..I am also wondering about those rototillers and if they have smaller ones for weak people. Heck if all this goes well I"ll be rotilling my whole yard --lol clancey


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## EatenByLimestone

Looks great!   


Don’t worry about rototillers.   I haven’t turned soil in years.    You certainly can turn over the soil to help get rid of weeds, but I prefer no till methods.   You can mess up a lot of good things in the soil by turning it over.


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## DuaeGuttae

EatenByLimestone said:


> Looks great!
> 
> 
> Don’t worry about rototillers.   I haven’t turned soil in years.    You certainly can turn over the soil to help get rid of weeds, but I prefer no till methods.   You can mess up a lot of good things in the soil by turning it over.



I agree.  I’ve never used a tiller and never plan to.  My mother always tilled our garden growing up.  She still has the garden, but the tiller broke a couple of years ago, and she has done without it ever since and is enjoying it.  Good cardboard and mulch layers can do a lot for getting rid of grass and weeds.  I think maybe you can see some of that going on in @Dan Freeman’s second picture above.

Good job, Mr. Freeman, on all those fence posts, by the way!


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## Dan Freeman

How was the salad Mrs Clancey? Rototillers? I used to have a big one that was a pain to handle. It used to drag me around. Then, I bought a Mantis Tiller. Much smaller and easier to handle. It won't break raw ground as quickly as my old one, but it doesn't drag me around the yard, either!

I agree! I haven't tilled my gardens in years. I only use the tiller now to start a new area to break up the soil initially since we have a lot of clay and rocks. When I was a kid, my father would spread all the fall leaves over his garden and then spade them under each Fall. He always had a good summer garden.

I have the same Vivosun mats and thermostat. They make a big difference in how fast seeds germinate. My seeds used to take forever to germinate before I got these.

I should have posted this picture earlier when I posted the ones showing the first row of fence posts we got in today. This "box" will be the area of the food forest. The posts we set today are on the line in the foreground of this picture.


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## clancey

Well the lettuce was wonderful but the texture was very different like a "softness and juicy" as well. I have to get used to this different texture for I am used to romaine lettuce and this was very different but excellent in taste and it had sort of a delightful small bitter taste that I could pick up with my taste investigation. On its little dog tag it says--Bonnie Plants since 1918 and it is a gourmet salad mix leaf lettuce combo..I read the back and it says: Part shade three to six hours and harvest time is 21 days after planting and no need to transplant out of the containers. For my first taste test I think that I like Romaine lettuce better because it is more crispy. But it is excellent.. Where I am to put my garden is right beside my old wood shed and not do anything to the soil but rough it up a little to put the plants in when I get them and try a few seeds as well keeping the "so called grass" around it --like holes in the grass. That's all I did for my last years tomato plant and had my carpenter dig the hole for me because of my back problems I need to be careful here-getting old has a lot to be desired-lol. But now I have my stool and a old ax that I fling into the soil to loosen so that I can mix my special feed in it in order to try it out on the plant I plant--I hope this makes sense here for its easy to fling the ax rather than dig a hole at this time. lol...I will investigate those vivosun mats and thermostat in the meanwhile. My carpenter travels all over the country in his motor home with a porch type pull out because he attends all the different sporting games and conventions and sells stuff like hats and beads and the different sales they have at those type of places. He most likely will go to the Cheyenne days next because he just attended the nascar or whatever races. Not a refined carpenter but he gets the job done and has built houses "when he was younger by himself"--very talented especially with a saw. I am going to request him to turn my wood shed into a "green house" of sorts and I cannot wait to see his facial expression as I ask what is possible? I know him almost 30 years and we argue like brothers and sisters and he hates to hang curtains-lol--that's how I get even for I know what he does not like...lol But he is a expert in his field...The whole sports world has changed over the last few years and he is up to date on this as well. I wish that I had a video of him working for I have seen him knock out a two by four and move the ladder at the same time as he knock out another one..a very strong man indeed...People have different talents and people are special especially in Gods eyes.. Gosh i am writing a book here. Thanks for the update and that food forest is pretty large in size and all I see right now for you is a whole bunch of work.., but it is fun designing work too...Thanks everyone..clancey


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## Dan Freeman

I hope he will be able to convert your woodshed into a working greenhouse. That would be great!


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## Dan Freeman

It is not going to be pleasant the next few days.
-48 today and rain
-40 tomorrow and chance of snow showers
-Monday mostly sunny but only 30 degrees
I am worried about Sunday into Monday. The temps are supposed to drop below freezing down to 18 degrees! I am worried about the tender young buds on my fruit trees and bushes, and on my ornamental tulip tree, rosebud trees, and purple empress tree I have on the property. We are expecting a delivery of 12 trees/bushes today. I will put them down in the cellar until the weather returns to "normal". At least all my vegetable and flower seedlings are in the heated greenhouse, so they will be safe.


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## clancey

Yea I have been watching the weather too and a real cold air is coming because of a dip in the jet stream.. Would wrapping those trees in a tarp or plastic help and how many are there anyway? can you fill the area with a lot of mulch or something--would that help? Can you put a plastic trash can or something over them are they too tall?  Praying for the baby trees..even if they are 50 feet high--lol No laughing matter here just trying to put humor in this bad weather report..We are going to get it here but your going to get a lot of moisture as well...Hoping it dips a different way---Maybe CA and Texas needs the moisture more because of forest fires or even CO maybe it will be okay--but I do not think so...I am watching the weather too at this point and I just moved my planters out to get some sun and I will pull them back in but I unloaded my birdie food--took a long time by wheel barreling and sliding on the table to get the seed in the cans but that job is finished...clancey


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## Dan Freeman

At a low of 17 (that's what they are saying now), there's not much I can do. I have over 20 trees/bushes planted, some as high as 5 feet tall. I'll just wait it out. At least they are not blooming yet, just buds. Some buds will die, but it is early in the season; they may be able to push out new ones for the ones that die.


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## EatenByLimestone

Tomorrow we’ll start clearing up the garden and getting it ready.

Most trees can rebuild without any issues, but transplants might have a harder time.    Can you stick a contractor bag over the whip?  Or are they to big already?


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## clancey

I got a dead almost rose bush that I got for a cheaper price from wal-mart and all they could take off was 10%...I paid 4 dollars for it because I felt so bad for it at the bottom of the shelf and all dried out and needed water and some light maybe to survive and asked for it for one dollar but store policy is they can only take off 10% of the price and I kept saying but its dead and i do not know if it will even survive. Then I got this "tin" patio planter that I love and no tag or price or anything and they had to spend hours to look it up as I waited and kept asking "Do you have this on the net for Wal-mart and they kept disappearing and finally I asked to speak to a supervisor and she said she was the supervisor and In said "then what is your companies complaint address" and where are your garden people finally they found "something" and I got it for about 20 dollars. What a day...Later I will take a picture of this "dead rose bush with tiny tiny roses"...I gave it water and some warmth and I hope this works and I named it "sticky"--lol . I got some seed to try out--sunflowers, watermelon, parsley,and basil and in the sales rack there for they are "older" I guess.. That was my day discussing dead rose bush and a tin plant patio planter. I fought for both and was able to buy them...I was going to leave my whole cart "right" there at the service counter... The rose bush looks a little happier now and I love my wash type  sink tin plant feeder and they are both home now...This dead looking thing I put in new soil and gave it some of my food. It had no dirt to it just sitting there "drying out"...poor thing...clancey


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## Dan Freeman

The overnight low was 16 degrees just before sunrise. My greenhouse was 42 degrees at that point, so all my seedlings and the new fruit trees/bushes have been spared. Tonight, is going to be another cold one at 18 degrees. It will take a few days to see the effect on the buds on my fruit trees/bushes down in the field. Today, we are expecting a high of 27 with snow showers.


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## EatenByLimestone

Cold here this morning too.    While walking the dog I re-examined my life choice of shaving this morning.   What the heck was I thinking?  Lol.


I didn’t get anything done on the garden yesterday.   Complete veg out day.


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## Dan Freeman

Just placed an order for a few more plants

Adams Elderberry





Hinnonmaki Red Gooseberry





Pixwell Gooseberry





Niagara Grape





10 Jersey Knight Giant Asparagus





Purple Passion Asparagus


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## EatenByLimestone

We used to have a lot of asparagus here.   It seems to have disappeared.

Be careful with the gooseberries if you have white pine in the area.   They don't get along, lol.


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## clancey

Lime hey ask your love one if she would like a full shave and let her know that you are judging the growth of the beard to the growth of the plants to see which one grows faster...lol . Freeman those pictures are just beautiful and I hate asparagus and if white pine and gooseberries don't get along I would call that a Chris and Will affair --lol.. My plants "so far" are doing very well--I think...Can not judge the little rose bush because its the same --dead looking but still standing...enjoyed... Today I just look at my plants...That little bit of cold will energize your plants I hope...thanks clancey


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## begreen

First crop of lettuce is in, about 40 plants? The first planting is overkill because production  is slow until the soil warms up. Seeds are starting to sprout. They're on a warming pad to keep the soil temp at 72º.  It's time to turn the beds and weed.


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## EatenByLimestone

Very nice!    It feels great to be getting the garden ready to grow again!


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## DuaeGuttae

Dan Freeman said:


> The overnight low was 16 degrees just before sunrise. My greenhouse was 42 degrees at that point, so all my seedlings and the new fruit trees/bushes have been spared. Tonight, is going to be another cold one at 18 degrees. It will take a few days to see the effect on the buds on my fruit trees/bushes down in the field. Today, we are expecting a high of 27 with snow showers.



What does it require to keep the greenhouse at 42 during weather like that?

My husband and I are talking about making a dilapidated shed that we own into a greenhouse that we could use to protected potted citrus at times.  (This is a long-range project as we don’t even own any potted citrus, but we might in the future if we can’t adequately protect the plants already in the ground.)  The shed is on a concrete slab and has electricity, so we play hefty taxes on it, but it’s sitting unused right now, and the roof is starting to leak.  Since we need to fix the roof anyway, we thought we might as well convert it into something we could use in the winter.

I’ve read that fruit tree buds if they’re tightly closed can be safe down to temperatures below freezing.   Here’s a chart you might find helpful, though, of course, all you can really do about your trees now is wait and see.



			https://extension.usu.edu/productionhort/fruit/tree/CriticalTemperaturesFrostDamageFruitTrees.pdf


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## DuaeGuttae

Saturday I spent a lot of the day in the garden.  All the ollas needed filling, and all the beds needed a good soaking as it has been so dry and windy and hot.  My outdoor humidity sensor had a couple of days where it was reading one percent!  I’m not sure that was completely accurate, but professional readings at the nearby airport have been in the single digits.

I also worked on removing all the soil and wood from a really large terra cotta pot in my garden that had sustained some pretty bad cracking last year because of freezing and thawing.  It was losing soil and water through the large cracks on the side. The piece that’s not shown is all intact, but this gives an idea of the size of the pot.  It’s about two feet in diameter if I recall correctly.




I used the soil to fill in other beds in the garden (and a matching pot that isn’t cracked), and my husband reassembled the bottom like a puzzle.  We have it put back together and ratchet strapped while some glue dries.  We don’t mind the cracks in the bottom, but we want to seal the side cracks a bit better, so we plan to continue with some aquarium sealant.  Two pots like this came with the property, and I would never spend the money to replace this one, but I love it and hope we’ll be able to get many more years of use out of it after this project is complete.

I also planted pole beans on Saturday in one of the beds that I topped up with soil.  I’m just hoping that it doesn’t sprout too many tomatillos since that’s what I grew in these pots last year.  I tried to keep the area clean of dropped fruit, but I’m sure I didn’t succeed entirely.


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## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> First crop of lettuce is in, about 40 plants? The first planting is overkill because production  is slow until the soil warms up. Seeds are starting to sprout. They're on a warming pad to keep the soil temp at 72º.  It's time to turn the beds and weed.
> 
> View attachment 294198



I’m beginning to regret not thickly sowing some lettuce earlier this season.  I do have some plants I transplanted in the beds that we’re harvesting from now.  It’s just that not all my transplants survived, and with a family of six, I can always use more lettuce, but it’s too hot now for me to try.


----------



## Dan Freeman

DuaeGuttae said:


> What does it require to keep the greenhouse at 42 during weather like that?
> 
> My husband and I are talking about making a dilapidated shed that we own into a greenhouse that we could use to protected potted citrus at times.  (This is a long-range project as we don’t even own any potted citrus, but we might in the future if we can’t adequately protect the plants already in the ground.)  The shed is on a concrete slab and has electricity, so we play hefty taxes on it, but it’s sitting unused right now, and the roof is starting to leak.  Since we need to fix the roof anyway, we thought we might as well convert it into something we could use in the winter.
> 
> I’ve read that fruit tree buds if they’re tightly closed can be safe down to temperatures below freezing.   Here’s a chart you might find helpful, though, of course, all you can really do about your trees now is wait and see.
> 
> 
> 
> https://extension.usu.edu/productionhort/fruit/tree/CriticalTemperaturesFrostDamageFruitTrees.pdf



Thanks for that chart!

I use a 1500 watt oil filled radiator type electric heater. Most nights I leave it set at the 1000 watt setting with a fan mounted up high to keep the air circulating so all the heat doesn't stay up near the roof. Last night I kept it up at the 1500 watt setting, the same again tonight. Generally, it keeps the greenhouse about 25 degrees above the outside temperature.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Would the Moroccan lettuce do OK in your warmer Temps?    I plan to try that this summer.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

I think I'll need to transplant the basil soon.    I can't believe how much it's grown in so short of time!    I'd let it grow longer, but I'd have to destroy the roots to get it out if it got much bigger.


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## clancey

Those basil plants look nice but I cannot figure out the contraption that you are using with the picture with all the tubes and stuff? My eyes are not what they use to be and how does that work anyway--looks different to me...But your baby basil looks real nice...Is that hydroponic gardening and is that what the inside of the container looks like for I figure  one could put them in just a slight stream of water--what are the tubes or whatever they are for and need to get time to read about this stuff--I apologize for my ignorance but "whats up"  , Love the little plants and I bought some basil seeds and I have a dirt container and could I put basil seeds in it?...I love basil...picture coming...clancey...


----------



## Dan Freeman

Yup, better transplant the basil soon so you don't damage the roots. My basil is just a bit smaller than yours, Limestone. I have it planted in 4-5" pots out in the greenhouse right now. I also have 4 pots of parsley just starting to break ground. I have one basil and one parsley plant in my den that I started last spring. It got us through the winter with fresh basil and parsley. So far, my 7 Tiny Tim tomatoes in my den have yielded over 500 tomatoes since December 17th. They are getting their second wind now, so I should be able to pick 200-300 more before I get rid of them. They will be replaced for the summer by Tiny Tim's I have started in the greenhouse.

I bought some yellow fern yarrow seeds today that I will plant down in the food forest. They attract lacewings which are voracious carnivore predators for so many bad insects.

Clancey, if you buy a small bag of Jiffy Seedling Soil (very inexpensive), you can plant basil seeds (and other herbs) and have them all season in little pots or outdoors.


----------



## clancey

Dan Freeman said:


> Yup, better transplant the basil soon so you don't damage the roots. My basil is just a bit smaller than yours, Limestone. I have it planted in 4-5" pots out in the greenhouse right now. I also have 4 pots of parsley just starting to break ground. I have one basil and one parsley plant in my den that I started last spring. It got us through the winter with fresh basil and parsley. So far, my 7 Tiny Tim tomatoes in my den have yielded over 500 tomatoes since December 17th. They are getting their second wind now, so I should be able to pick 200-300 more before I get rid of them. They will be replaced for the summer by Tiny Tim's I have started in the greenhouse.
> 
> I bought some yellow fern yarrow seeds today that I will plant down in the food forest. They attract lacewings which are voracious carnivore predators for so many bad insects.
> 
> Clancey, if you buy a small bag of Jiffy Seedling Soil (very inexpensive), you can plant basil seeds (and other herbs) and have them all season in little pots or outdoors.


I posted a half of a note but cannot post anything on here and I think it is a computer glitch or something and I asked for help from the site on my other thread so I am "frozen in time"..That particular posting just runs and runs with no edit available so I cannot do anything with it..Maybe its the weather--who knows and just wanted you to know. It seems to be okay now maybe I hit a wrong button or something and maybe they will just have a way to delete that posting or something..What I wanted to say was I fed my little plants my special blend and the dirt in the wash tub planter I got out of my back yard and added some miracle feeding as well as my special blend. Limestone little plants look great and I wonder if I could plant parsley and basil in that white patio container together to start them after I get some seedling soil..clancey


----------



## Dan Freeman

Mrs. Clancey. You can mix basil with the parsley. I usually keep them separate, but I see no harm. Instead of "one seed per hole", I fill the pots with potting soil, tamp it down lightly with my fingers, sprinkle some seeds over the entire surface, add about 1/4 inch of potting soil on top the seeds, tamp again with my fingers, and then water. They come up nice and thick that way.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

clancey said:


> Those basil plants look nice but I cannot figure out the contraption that you are using with the picture with all the tubes and stuff? My eyes are not what they use to be and how does that work anyway--looks different to me...But your baby basil looks real nice...Is that hydroponic gardening and is that what the inside of the container looks like for I figure  one could put them in just a slight stream of water--what are the tubes or whatever they are for and need to get time to read about this stuff--I apologize for my ignorance but "whats up"  , Love the little plants and I bought some basil seeds and I have a dirt container and could I put basil seeds in it?...I love basil...picture coming...clancey...
> 
> View attachment 294238
> View attachment 294239


The contraption is an Aerogarden.   It’s a little hydroponic and light setup that I found on clearance at Sam’s Club.    I’ve never played with hydroponics before so this is all new to me.   So far I’m really impressed with it, but I can see where roots will be a big issue for transplanting.   

Plant some basil seeds in your tub!


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Dan Freeman said:


> Yup, better transplant the basil soon so you don't damage the roots. My basil is just a bit smaller than yours, Limestone. I have it planted in 4-5" pots out in the greenhouse right now. I also have 4 pots of parsley just starting to break ground. I have one basil and one parsley plant in my den that I started last spring. It got us through the winter with fresh basil and parsley. So far, my 7 Tiny Tim tomatoes in my den have yielded over 500 tomatoes since December 17th. They are getting their second wind now, so I should be able to pick 200-300 more before I get rid of them. They will be replaced for the summer by Tiny Tim's I have started in the greenhouse.
> 
> I bought some yellow fern yarrow seeds today that I will plant down in the food forest. They attract lacewings which are voracious carnivore predators for so many bad insects.
> 
> Clancey, if you buy a small bag of Jiffy Seedling Soil (very inexpensive), you can plant basil seeds (and other herbs) and have them all season in little pots or outdoors.


Wow!   That’s a great tomato yield! Are you going to root cuttings off your current tiny Tim?


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## Dan Freeman

I might, but I have 8 more growing in the greenhouse right now, only about 1-2 inches tall so far. The Tiny Tim's produce a lot of tomatoes about 3/4 to 1 inch round. The plants don't get any taller than about 15-18 inches. They put out a first crop, take a rest, and then start producing again. I image they would keep producing after another rest, but I have never kept them beyond two crops as they start to get scraggly.


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## EatenByLimestone

How do they taste in comparison to the San Marzanos? It’d be pretty neat to grow a tomato inside all winter in the kitchen.


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## Dan Freeman

They are a very sweet cherry tomato. We use them in salads and sometimes when I pass the bowl in the kitchen, I just pop a few in my mouth.


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## EatenByLimestone

The bowl in the kitchen would be my goal.    It seems like they grow well indoors.    I wonder if I could keep them growing all winter long.

If I can keep good snacks in front of the kid, she tends to eat better food.


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## Dan Freeman

Shouldn't be a problem growing them all winter, but I would recommend a good quality grow light (or lights). If you want a grow light recommendation, I can give you one. I have been using them for 3 -4 years after trying other cheaper lights. I have 10 of them. I use them for my indoor growing during the winter and to develop my seedlings in the greenhouse in the Spring. They are rated for 50,000 hours of use. At 16 hours a day, that translates into over 8 years of use per light fixture. They are LEDs, so there is no ongoing bulb expense either.


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## EatenByLimestone

Please on the grow light!    I'd been using the aerogardens and before that a couple red and blue LEDs that can be aimed a bit.   My current grow lights set the bar for improvement really low.


----------



## Dan Freeman

Happy Leaf LED grow Lights. I have the 33" Procyon 2.0.




__





						Happy Leaf LED | High-Efficiency Indoor LED Grow Lights
					

High-efficiency indoor LED Grow lights designed and manufactured in the US with a focus on constant innovation and amazing customer support.




					happyleafled.com
				




I use them indoors on a 36" wide by 18" deep x 6' tall wire shelf that you can get at Lowes, Home Depot, Amazon, etc.




In the greenhouse I string them down both sides of my greenhouse above my seedlings.


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## EatenByLimestone

Wow, that’s quite the operation you have there!


----------



## Dan Freeman

It seems to grow a little bit more each year even though I say, "I need to cut down next year".


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## DuaeGuttae

I have a professional grower friend who has recently recommended “Bloomspect” grow lights.  Just another option to investigate.  I have no experience with either this brand or the one Dan Freeman uses.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

I keep saying I need to cut my garden back every year.     I find I have the time to plant, but then work gets busy and it doesn’t get harvested.    I’ve solved a bit of that by moving tubs up on our deck with things like salad.    We walk a few steps out the door and harvest lunch.   

I took a pic of a grow light.  All red and blue.   Which is interesting as most grow lights have a bit of red and blue, mostly white.    *shrug*

I moved the basil out of an aero garden and into a window pot yesterday.  I was afraid if I waited too long I wouldn’t be able to get them out without destroying roots. They came out surprisingly easy.   Now I need to figure out what to put in it next.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

EatenByLimestone said:


> Would the Moroccan lettuce do OK in your warmer Temps?    I plan to try that this summer.



I decided to give it a try.  I mixed several varieties of lettuce seed, including the Moroccan type, with some green onion seeds, small radish seeds, and green onion seeds, and my little ones and I sowed them generously in between the lettuce that’s already growing in the garden.  I’ll need to keep surface watering, but I have some pole beans I just seeded along the arched trellis, so I’ll just do the full bed with the watering cans. Hopefully I can get some germination.

The lettuce row is in the front of the picture.  In the background you can see the potato foliage along the side and the garlic beds in the middle of the garden.  The garlic grew a lot in our warm, warm December and was hit hard by some freezes in January.  It grew back but has never looked quite as good as I would like.  At least it’s still got time.




The same day that I seeded the salad row, I also transplanted tomatoes.  They were getting so tall that I’ve been having a hard time keeping them watered in the sun and wind (it has been really dry here), and I decided that instead of bringing them back inside for strong weather, I’d just bury them deeply in the garden.  The soil is pretty warm even if the air temperature dips a bit for a couple of nights.  I have mostly indeterminate varieties set along my trellises, but I have a few smaller varieties in cages.  



The onions are coming along.  Now that the equinox is past, they should start bulbing up.  I’ve pulled a few for using as green onions, and I’ve noticed just a few starting to put up flower stalks.  It’s no surprise with the crazy weather we’ve had this year..



I harvested some beets and greens the other night for our supper.  I still have a few in the back of one onion bed.  I plan to put squash there when we’ve eaten the beets.



And just for fun a shot of my asparagus bed.  I’m a bit worried that nothing has come up yet.  Last year the early shoots started at the end of February.  I’m thinking that our warm weather went on so, so long this year that the plants didn’t think it was winter till January.  I don’t know if last year was early or if this year is late or both, but I’ll feel happier if some shoots appear.


----------



## Dan Freeman

EatenByLimestone said:


> I keep saying I need to cut my garden back every year.     I find I have the time to plant, but then work gets busy and it doesn’t get harvested.    I’ve solved a bit of that by moving tubs up on our deck with things like salad.    We walk a few steps out the door and harvest lunch.
> 
> I took a pic of a grow light.  All red and blue.   Which is interesting as most grow lights have a bit of red and blue, mostly white.    *shrug*
> 
> I moved the basil out of an aero garden and into a window pot yesterday.  I was afraid if I waited too long I wouldn’t be able to get them out without destroying roots. They came out surprisingly easy.   Now I need to figure out what to put in it next.
> 
> View attachment 294302


I can relate. The real busy season for our business is July-October. It becomes a real chore to try and keep up with the garden, but at 66 we are winding down our business, and with the economy, I'm not sure how much longer we will have it.

Red, blue, white...and green on grow lights is the norm on good ones.

Congrats on the basil transplant. How about some other hearbs next?


----------



## Dan Freeman

DuaeGuttae said:


> I decided to give it a try.  I mixed several varieties of lettuce seed, including the Moroccan type, with some green onion seeds, small radish seeds, and green onion seeds, and my little ones and I sowed them generously in between the lettuce that’s already growing in the garden.  I’ll need to keep surface watering, but I have some pole beans I just seeded along the arched trellis, so I’ll just do the full bed with the watering cans. Hopefully I can get some germination.
> 
> The lettuce row is in the front of the picture.  In the background you can see the potato foliage along the side and the garlic beds in the middle of the garden.  The garlic grew a lot in our warm, warm December and was hit hard by some freezes in January.  It grew back but has never looked quite as good as I would like.  At least it’s still got time.
> View attachment 294298
> 
> 
> 
> The same day that I seeded the salad row, I also transplanted tomatoes.  They were getting so tall that I’ve been having a hard time keeping them watered in the sun and wind (it has been really dry here), and I decided that instead of bringing them back inside for strong weather, I’d just bury them deeply in the garden.  The soil is pretty warm even if the air temperature dips a bit for a couple of nights.  I have mostly indeterminate varieties set along my trellises, but I have a few smaller varieties in cages.
> View attachment 294297
> 
> 
> The onions are coming along.  Now that the equinox is past, they should start bulbing up.  I’ve pulled a few for using as green onions, and I’ve noticed just a few starting to put up flower stalks.  It’s no surprise with the crazy weather we’ve had this year..
> View attachment 294300
> 
> 
> I harvested some beets and greens the other night for our supper.  I still have a few in the back of one onion bed.  I plan to put squash there when we’ve eaten the beets.
> View attachment 294301
> 
> 
> And just for fun a shot of my asparagus bed.  I’m a bit worried that nothing has come up yet.  Last year the early shoots started at the end of February.  I’m thinking that our warm weather went on so, so long this year that the plants didn’t think it was winter till January.  I don’t know if last year was early or if this year is late or both, but I’ll feel happier if some shoots appear.
> View attachment 294299


Everything looks great! You have such neat gardens. Love the trellises.


----------



## Montanalocal

The most important factor with lighting is the distance from the light to the plant.  The inverse square law describes the intensity of light at different distances from a light source.  It says  light intensity is proportional to 1 over the distance squared.  Thus the light intensity at two inches is one quarter that of the light from one inch.

Thus I always keep my seedlings at least within one inch of the light, and sometimes I keep it just touching.  I might burn a leaf tip now and then, but they do grow great.

I also keep the lights on 24 hours.  I am just trying to go from a seed to a seedling as fast as possible.

Finally, I use the cheapest most ordinary lights available.  As far as I know, the specialized grow lights really only matter when you are trying to get things to flower or set fruit.  Just trying to get a seedling up enough to transplant it into the garden has never made a difference for me.


----------



## clancey

Everything looks just wonderful and I will be way laid for awhile but sure enjoying the thread.  clancey


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## Dan Freeman

Montanalocal said:


> The most important factor with lighting is the distance from the light to the plant.  The inverse square law describes the intensity of light at different distances from a light source.  It says  light intensity is proportional to 1 over the distance squared.  Thus the light intensity at two inches is one quarter that of the light from one inch.
> 
> Thus I always keep my seedlings at least within one inch of the light, and sometimes I keep it just touching.  I might burn a leaf tip now and then, but they do grow great.
> 
> I also keep the lights on 24 hours.  I am just trying to go from a seed to a seedling as fast as possible.
> 
> Finally, I use the cheapest most ordinary lights available.  As far as I know, the specialized grow lights really only matter when you are trying to get things to flower or set fruit.  Just trying to get a seedling up enough to transplant it into the garden has never made a difference for me.
> 
> View attachment 294315
> View attachment 294316


24 hours is a mistake. Plants actually need a period of darkness each day to grow properly. You should have the grow light on no more than 14-16 hours a day.

You are also right about the distance of the light to the plant, but the distance depends on the type of plant and the PAR energy of the light.  (Photosynthetically Active Radiation) PAR is the energy between 400 and 700 nanometers that plants use for photosynthesis to convert CO2 and water into sugars. 

The type of light you use is also crucial. "Brightness" to our eyes means nothing when it comes to growing. It is important to understand that lumens are a measure of how we (humans) perceive light and are not related to how plants absorb light, whereas PAR energy is not particularly important to us (humans) with respect to how we see light.  For this reason, we should not determine which lights we use for growing plants based on either lumens, lux, ft-candles, or watts.  These are all units of measure for how we perceive light and how much power the light source consumes to make the light we see.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

Dan Freeman said:


> Everything looks great! You have such neat gardens. Love the trellises.



I don’t think there are many upsides to drought, but it does help keep weeds at bay.  We’ve moved back to “extreme” drought at this point.

My sweet potato slips have been growing like crazy.  About a week ago, the long ones were starting to twist around each other, so I cut of the ends and stuck them in a little terra cotta planter to root.  They’ve been doing well, and the slips in the big planter needed another “haircut” yesterday.  I put fifteen more cuts in a pot to root in.  

I am still having aphids showing up on the tips, so I’m back to spraying with neem.  I need to get these outside when it warms up today and spray more vigorously, I think.  It’s still too cool at night to put them in the garden, but I’m very glad for the abundance.  I introduced my neighbors to growing sweet potatoes last year, and I’m planning to give them enough slips for two beds full this year.


----------



## Dan Freeman

I was hoping to get more t-posts driven in for the food forest fencing today, but it looks like there will be periods of showers, and I don't want to run the electric cord and have the compressor down in the field if it starts to rain. I'll wait a while and see. Perhaps I can finally get our potatoes and onion sets planted. Our garlic was shooting up through the straw about 6 inches high when we had the freezing night temps earlier this week. All the shoots died, but I read that is not a problem with garlic. They will send up new shoots. Today, I also want to take a close look at all the fruit trees and bushes and see the damage on the buds from the freezing weather. Everything in the greenhouse is doing well.


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## EatenByLimestone

The garlic has done this before.    Don’t worry, it’s got this covered!

Last night I ordered more aerogarden pods and some baskets.   

The basil is starting to grow fast again.   It must like the soil.   I was worried it’d shock it too much.  I guess I didn’t need to be.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

EatenByLimestone said:


> The garlic has done this before.    Don’t worry, it’s got this covered!
> 
> Last night I ordered more aerogarden pods and some baskets.
> 
> The basil is starting to grow fast again.   It must like the soil.   I was worried it’d shock it too much.  I guess I didn’t need to be.



 I transplanted some kale and komatsuna as well as a bit of Mexican Mint Marigold (a tarragon substitute for this far south) yesterday and potted up some a few peppers, an eggplant, and some basil.  It’s forecast to get down to the low forties at the end of next week, so I’m keeping the super heat lovers out of the ground for just a bit longer.

The tomatoes I transplanted earlier in the week seem to be settling in fine, and the pole beans just started showing a few sprouts above the soil yesterday.  I always get very excited when they pop up.

I have cucumbers sprouting in the Aerogarden now along with a bunch more herbs and flowers.   I think my luffa seeds (just two) may be rotting instead of germinating, so I might try soaking them in warm water and sprouting them in a jar to see if that helps.


----------



## Dan Freeman

40's and windy today. I really don't feel like leaving the warmth of the house to work outside, but I have to get more fence posts in the ground around the food forest.

I have some more bushes and vines coming in today. My greenhouse is getting crowded with trees/bushes/vines that need to get planted, but I want to wait until I have the whole food forest fenced in, so I don't have to make individual cages for each plant like I had to do for the ones already in there.

Finally starting to see some of my pepper and eggplant seedlings emerge in the greenhouse. Tomatoes are already 2-3 inches tall. Over 100 pots with flowers all coming up: zinnias, marigolds, Forget-Me-Nots, and Shasta Daisies.

We got 72 potato seedlings planted yesterday in 3 raised beds.

Well, enough stalling; I better get outside and get to work.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Today was a metal bending day at the cabin.   Wile chatting with the wife on the phone I opened a coil of steel trim.   It sprang open and sliced up my knuckle.    Hopefully it heals enough to get the metal bent up tomorrow.  

I got the metal roof on last fall, but couldn’t get the fascia’s done, lol.


----------



## Dan Freeman

EatenByLimestone said:


> Today was a metal bending day at the cabin.   Wile chatting with the wife on the phone I opened a coil of steel trim.   It sprang open and sliced up my knuckle.    Hopefully it heals enough to get the metal bent up tomorrow.
> 
> I got the metal roof on last fall, but couldn’t get the fascia’s done, lol.


Ouch! Hope you are OK.


----------



## Dan Freeman

Well, we got the posts with diagonal supports for the two back corners in plus the 11 posts driven in for the back section. We just have to do the sides now with the gate openings. I was so tired I couldn't even take pictures. We also filled another raised bed and got all our onions planted. The grape vine, elderberry bush, 20 asparagus plants, and 2 gooseberry plants came in today. We put the asparagus plants in the refrigerator. The grape vine (very small) was already in a pot, along with the elderberry, but the two gooseberries were bare root, so I filled pots with soil and planted them. Everything is in the greenhouse. We are both exhausted. Chinese takeout on the menu tonight!


----------



## DuaeGuttae

EatenByLimestone said:


> Today was a metal bending day at the cabin.   Wile chatting with the wife on the phone I opened a coil of steel trim.   It sprang open and sliced up my knuckle.    Hopefully it heals enough to get the metal bent up tomorrow.
> 
> I got the metal roof on last fall, but couldn’t get the fascia’s done, lol.



Knuckle slices can be tricky.  I had one many years ago that got smashed with some rusty metal and tore a good gash.  It kept reopening and needed stiches, but the stitches pulled out until the doctor immobilized the thumb.  Then I ended up with a frozen knuckle and, believe it or not, a visit to a physical therapist to get it activated again.  It was a whole lot of hassle for what seemed very minor when it happened.  I hope yours isn’t that tricky, but be careful with it.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

Dan Freeman said:


> Well, we got the posts with diagonal supports for the two back corners in plus the 11 posts driven in for the back section. We just have to do the sides now with the gate openings. I was so tired I couldn't even take pictures. We also filled another raised bed and got all our onions planted. The grape vine, elderberry bush, 20 asparagus plants, and 2 gooseberry plants came in today. We put the asparagus plants in the refrigerator. The grape vine (very small) was already in a pot, along with the elderberry, but the two gooseberries were bare root, so I filled pots with soil and planted them. Everything is in the greenhouse. We are both exhausted. Chinese takeout on the menu tonight!



I had a deer in the backyard the other day.   We’ve been having a lot of high winds, and our gates don’t always stay latched.  We’re now adding rocks to block them shut, as the last thing I want is a deer coming and nibbling away the plants I am growing for my garden that live on the back deck. (You would think that a deer wouldn’t come on a deck, but I don’t put anything past them down here.  There are way too many, and with the drought, they must be feeling food pressure.) The deer also seem to like nibbling at our citrus trees if they do get into the yard, and right now one lemon has lots of tender growth as it recovers from freeze damage.  The other lemon and lime have yet to show growth, but there is still green in the stems, so we hope they’ll recover.  I just don’t want any deer near them.

We chipped cedar branches today.  It was hot.  I would have preferred 40 degree weather so that I could wear coveralls.  Instead it was in the mid 80s.  We tried to stay in shade as much as possible, but it’s hard to escape the sun all the time down here.  It was pretty exhausting.

My husband just finished grilling hamburgers for our dinner.  I’m grateful.


----------



## clancey

you might need some stitches and for me I am way laid because I broke three more vertebrae so taking an easy but trying to read everyday this thread..Sorry that happened and please be more careful and I say the same to myself..clancey


----------



## Dan Freeman

Ouch, Mrs Clancey. Hope you heal up and are feeling better soon.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Heal fast Mrs. Clancy.   I broke the transverse process on L0-5 a few years ago in a ladder oopsie.   Make friends with a good chiropractor!    They are life savers!


----------



## clancey

Thanks everyone..My three plants are doing fine so far and they are inside and please relax a bit everyone and try to pace your works especially you G. for this year will be very hard so plan you time tables well..Bad weather for Texas and it will continue so regroup with your work loads --gather your foods and store as you can and protect yourself people who live in the middle of the country from tornado's because things are going to change drastically---no proof here---just saying---get prepared and stick close to your family and home...I hope none of what I am thinking is true and it might not be so just take some moments and plan for the future but most of all pace yourselves and catch up on other things--just saying...Sure do admire and love everyone of you and this is all that I have to give you right now.. Now my dear forum member Lime you are over stretching yourself but your work is good...Keep up with the weather reports...I am feeling better and just relaxing myself for now but I am improving each day...Thanks everyone and bless you and our country...old mrs clancey


----------



## Dan Freeman

The Gardening Channel with James Prigioni just posted his first video of the season last night. If you have never watched James, you'll love him. He is such a positive person and so full of enthusiasm. He lives in NJ and started a food forest in his backyard about 7-8 years ago where he has all kinds of fruit trees/bushes/vines and tons of vegetables. He was the inspiration for us starting our food forest. Check his channel out if you haven't seen him before: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9V_-gqJsZNOy4v_HqbRz3w

Here's his video of this season:


----------



## Dan Freeman

Today was not a pleasant day weather-wise, but it stopped raining at about 12, so I went down into the field and reinforced the two back corners with high tensile wire using my new Gripple tool and laid out one more side with stakes where the next row of t-post has to be driven in, hopefully tomorrow. I made it back in just before it started raining again. I just feel I need to do something every day to not fall behind on this major project.


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## EatenByLimestone

I’m itching to start getting stuff in the ground.   We’re still not out of frost time yet, but I can probably get lettuce and kale and such planted.   I’ll work on that this week.


----------



## Dan Freeman

Spinach and Kale should do OK. I have to wait until about May 15th and that is "cheating" by about a week or so. I imagine your last frost date is about the same up in Schenectady. I have my onions and potatoes in, but they should be OK.


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## DuaeGuttae

clancey said:


> you might need some stitches and for me I am way laid because I broke three more vertebrae so taking an easy but trying to read everyday this thread..Sorry that happened and please be more careful and I say the same to myself..clancey



Oh, Mrs. Clancey, I’m so sorry to hear that.  I’m glad you’re taking it easy, and I’m really glad you have your plants inside where they can give you some cheer.  Get well soon.


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## DuaeGuttae

EatenByLimestone said:


> I’m itching to start getting stuff in the ground.   We’re still not out of frost time yet, but I can probably get lettuce and kale and such planted.   I’ll work on that this week.


I don’t know if you wear gloves when you work in the soil, but if not, you want want to consider taking some extra precautions with that wounded knuckle just to keep it clean.

When we have warm days, even when nights are cold, I think that really makes me impatient for the full gardening season.  We’ve been having some hot days, but we still have nights in the forecast in the low forties, so I’m holding off on my peppers and eggplants a little bit longer.  

I saw tiny leaves in the soil where I sowed my lettuce/green onion/radish/carrot mix last week.  They looked like brassica cotyledons, so probably a few radishes.  The interesting thing was that the only sprouts so far are on the north side of my biggest broccoli plant.  I guess the shade lets the soil hold moisture there longer.  I sure do hope that there will be some sprouts in the rest of the row, too, though.  I’ve been very faithful about watering.


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## DuaeGuttae

Dan Freeman said:


> Today was not a pleasant day weather-wise, but it stopped raining at about 12, so I went down into the field and reinforced the two back corners with high tensile wire using my new Gripple tool and laid out one more side with stakes where the next row of t-post has to be driven in, hopefully tomorrow. I made it back in just before it started raining again. I just feel I need to do something every day to not fall behind on this major project.



At least rain will help make the ground easier for pounding t-posts.  When my husband and I had to put up our fence last summer around the new garden beds, we had to soak several places in the ground to make progress.  We didn’t have any compressor-driven tool, though, but we did have a manual t-post pounder that helped a lot.

Onions and potatoes make up the bulk of what is green in our garden right now.  My five year old and I have been pulling the occasional onion for use in lettuce salad or tuna salad.  I have some that are sending up flower stalks, so they’re the ones getting pulled early.  It is fun to be beginning to harvest just a little bit.


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## EatenByLimestone

Do you guys bake carrots?   My wife started making these last year.   They convert a carrot into an amazingly sweet treat!  I wish I’d known about baking them decades ago.   I would have eaten them more often.


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## clancey

That's how I soften up my ground by getting it wet. G. I think you will have real soft ground this week if the rain holds..lol . There goes lime itching to get started--lol lol I love carrots and especially baked ones for you can put ingredients on it to change up the taste--looks wonderful..Freedom you are doing such heavy type of work just be careful and think before and this is something that I wish that I have done--ugh...Thanks for the video but I got a copy of it before..Stay safe...My back is getting better each day and pretty soon I will be scooping out some dirt too in order to place two of my plants in the ground.. I am keeping my mint separate for now...The rose bush does not look good but its still spunky...lol  Enjoy your garden work and just think of organic "mashed" potato's --yum...clancey


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## clancey

Some pictures of the plantee"s  clancey


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## Dan Freeman

We got the third side of t-posts in the ground today and one of the fence gates. That's 270 linear feet of t-posts done with another 100 linear feet to go. I am hoping we can get them finished tomorrow, and then we can start wiring the fencing to the t-posts.


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## clancey

Your making a lot of progress and sure does look well constructed and I know you can't wait to get things in and I just bet--"if you get all the work done then you can relax"--how your hand doing anyway? Keep an eye on it and work safe...Gosh it looks really good --good job...clancey


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## Dan Freeman

Today was "The Day of Reckoning", the day each year I decide which seedlings I am going allow to mature and which ones get cut out. I always plant at least 2 seeds per pot, sometimes 3 if they are older seeds. Once they start to come up and put out there first true leaves, if I have 2 or 3 seedlings per pot, I choose which one will be nurtured into a mature plant. I have to say, I don't like "The Day of Reckoning". I feel like I am killing "innocent" plants, but I don't want to take a chance of damaging any roots by trying to pull out the 1 or 2 that don't make the cut and repotting them!


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## clancey

I say saved them all...lol...clancey


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## Dan Freeman

I really was hoping to get the 4th side of t-posts in today for the food forest, but the rain lasted longer than they predicted, and when it ended, I really didn't feel like going down into the wet field. Tomorrow is a rain out, so I have to wait until Friday.

Instead, I started 18 peat pots of Fern Leaf Yellow Yarrow. It is a great plant to attract  lacewings, which are voracious aphid and other pesty bug eaters. I also started 18 peat pots of Black Eyed Susans...because I like them.

Here are three shots of my greenhouse today.


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## clancey

Everything looks so pretty and well maintained--you did good. You should think of a business aspect of this so that you and your better half could make a little bit of money and have fun while doing it...clancey


----------



## clancey

I just listened to the weather channel and someone asked a question about beginners growing plants and they said the best ones were the native plants in the area because they can handle the temperatures and attract the birds and the bees as well. Also something about ph and saying you could mix some soil with water and bring it "somewhere" ( I think a garden center or something) and they  can tell you if you need to add anything to your soil. Thoughts for this day..lol  clancey


----------



## EatenByLimestone

I wouldn't say that ph is unimportant,  but I wouldn't get all bent out of shape over it. Most plants like soil that is right around 7, or neutral.   The compost that you work into your soil to help it hold water and nutrients?   It's neutral.  

Blueberries love acidic soil.  I grow mine in neutral soil.   They do fine.  The birds love them!  Sigh

Soil ammendments don't work long term.  Theyll drive you crazy if you try to alter them.


----------



## clancey

Thanks Lime that's good information and I  really did not know and my three plants are doing very well and they like my food that I am feeding them and I talk to them as well telling them to grow nice and straight..lol The rose bush I think is alive and I tell it to just give me "one leaf" which it has not done as of yet but there is still hope--I think...Still laid up but improving everyday and this will take some time but it looks positive and I am feeling a lot better...clancey


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## EatenByLimestone

One day at a time, Mrs Clancy!


----------



## EatenByLimestone

About a week ago I had my wife put an Amazon order in for 100 starter pods for the Aerogarden.   They haven't arrived yet.   Thats irritating!  I think I've been spoiled by fast shipping, lol.   

The pods were 28c each, the generic ones were 26.   Not really enough of a difference to get me to try the generic.   

The tomatoes are growing great!   We'll have a bumper crop this year, I'm sure!   The peppers are growing, but much slower.  Maybe I took them off the heat pad too early.


----------



## Dan Freeman

Peppers like warm feet. That's why I keep mine in the greenhouse all season, from seed to harvest. Our cool nights go right into late June and return in mid-August. I never had much luck with my peppers outside. Now, in the greenhouse, they grow and produce like crazy.

I have noticed Amazon has been having a problem getting things delivered "on time" lately. Besides that, I have had two orders marked as "undeliverable" within 24 hours after I ordered them, and they didn't even look like they shipped out yet. I had to reorder both orders. Today, I have a package that says it was delivered..."handed to resident", but I never got it. They are telling me to wait another 24 hours. (???)


----------



## clancey

Everything is screwy ----I could go into detail but won't but everything is late or not arriving or back ordered and the whole system is crap right now--be patient my plant people.., or all you people start pacing yourselves too and have a hot chocolate and just take some time out for you and your families too...That shipment not arriving on time gives you some free time to do other things. I have learn"d my lesson--Lime those peppers will perk up and grow full force when  we get warmer weather and if not you will figure it all out....Thanks freeman ---everything looks good---going to taste good too. Can't wait until warmer weather and it will come soon and then we will be into summer weather...Have a cold beer too. lol I am having one right now...clancey


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## EatenByLimestone

Tomato update.   17 days in the aerogarden.   Maybe a week on the heat pad.


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## clancey

Looks great but mine one plant is taller--lol Here are my pictures-lol  Brought home 3/24 and now it is 4/8...Just playing here . Your plant looks wonderful but my big boy will overtake--lol clancey


----------



## DuaeGuttae

EatenByLimestone said:


> Tomato update.   17 days in the aerogarden.   Maybe a week on the heat pad.
> 
> View attachment 294533
> View attachment 294534


Those  look great!  I bet they have some really long roots.  I’d be working to pot them up before the roots get all tangled, though when I pot mine up, I often prune the roots so that they’re not too long for the little nursery bags that I use.  Tomatoes are so resilient that it really doesn’t seem to cause a problem.  If I can get them out of the Aerogarden when they’re small, great; if not, they do fine.  Is it warm enough during the day to put them out in the sunshine, or is it still too cold for that?




This is what my tomatoes looked like the day before I managed to pot them up.  It was a little later than I intended, but they did fine.  Most are out in the garden now, buried deep, and the cherry varieties are just beginning to flower (just in time for the cold snap where our nights are back down in the forties).  Overall, they’re doing well.

It should warm up again on Saturday night, so I’m looking in my onion beds to see if I can make room to get the peppers transplanted out.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

clancey said:


> Looks great but mine one plant is taller--lol Here are my pictures-lol  Brought home 3/24 and now it is 4/8...Just playing here . Your plant looks wonderful but my big boy will overtake--lol clancey
> 
> View attachment 294536
> View attachment 294537



Very nice, Mrs. Clancey.  I’m glad they’re happy inside.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

EatenByLimestone said:


> About a week ago I had my wife put an Amazon order in for 100 starter pods for the Aerogarden.   They haven't arrived yet.   Thats irritating!  I think I've been spoiled by fast shipping, lol.
> 
> The pods were 28c each, the generic ones were 26.   Not really enough of a difference to get me to try the generic.
> 
> The tomatoes are growing great!   We'll have a bumper crop this year, I'm sure!   The peppers are growing, but much slower.  Maybe I took them off the heat pad too early.


Peppers do like warmth, but I find that peppers are just slow to get started.  They take longer than tomatoes to germinate, to get their true leaves, to branch out.  That’s not to say that they wouldn’t benefit from more warmth, but it’s just to note that peppers are just slower even in favorable conditions.


----------



## begreen

Yes, I've found the same thing. Our tomato seedlings are way ahead in spite of being started at the same time.


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## Dan Freeman

Tomatoes seeds germinate at a lower soil temperature than peppers. Peppers need a higher soil temperature.

Tomatoes: 65 - 85
Peppers: 80 or higher

Both with germinate at lower end of soil temps, but the peppers will definitely take longer.

The field was so wet today, I decided not to put in the 4th side of t-posts. Too wet and squishy! I did get them spaced with wood stakes for tomorrow. Instead, I thought with the ground so saturated, I would try to drive the 3 - 6-foot grounding rods (at 10-foot intervals) I need for the electric fence.

OMG! I got 2 of them all the way driven down WITH A LOT OF EFFORT, (using a post driver and then a sledgehammer) but the 3rd one hit the shale shelf we have traveling under our property. No matter how many hits with a sledgehammer, I could only get that one down 4.5 feet. However, I think that will be sufficient for grounding.

Tomorrow, I plan to get the 4th side of t-posts driven into the ground, then I can start running the welded wire fencing.


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## EatenByLimestone

Grounding rods can be tough to drive!     I’m sure yours will be far enough in.   I’m not sure why they want them in so far.

Mrs. Clancy, your big boy tomato is never going to stop growing.  It’ll be way bigger than mine!


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## clancey

OMG---That big--I hope  yours and mine get big and strong and give us plenty of good tasting tomato"s--Yes... I was having fun with you. lol  Last year I had a different plant and wow so many tomato"s I had and fed the whole neighborhood. lol...Hope I repeat it this year with this Big Boy Tomato plant....Can't wait to see your stuff in full bloom as well...thanks clancey


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## DuaeGuttae

EatenByLimestone said:


> Mrs. Clancy, your big boy tomato is never going to stop growing.  It’ll be way bigger than mine!



Good point, EatenbyLimestone.  Big Boy is an indeterminate tomato.  It will keep growing taller and wider until frost.  Mrs. Clancey, you’ll probably need more support for that plant than you did for your Celebrity last year.  (Celebrity, I think, is semi-determinate, so it doesn’t grow quite so much as an indeterminate.)  You could use a vertical trellis of some sort or use twine to tie it to a tall stake.  You’ve got a while to think about it, but I thought I’d mention it so that you can start thinking about it.


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## begreen

The Celebrity is a very prolific plant, but the Big Boy tomatoes will weigh more and need stronger support. I used to grow Brandy Boy which is a cross between Big Boy and Brandywine. Great tomatoes and huge. Our largest was over 2 pounds.


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## Dan Freeman

Nothing like a nice slicing tomato from the garden for a tomato sandwich! I can almost taste it, but I have some time to go before I can eat one, my tomato plants are about in the 4–5-inch range, and it will be another month before I can move them outside.


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## Dan Freeman

Once again, we were hoping to get the 4th side of t-posts up in the food forest yesterday, but it was sunny one moment and showery the next. I don't like working in wet grass with tools that are on extension cords, so we put it off for another day.

We relocated the trellis for the cucumbers, acorn squash and cantaloupes to another area that I think will work better. Also moved a few raised beds for better placement (ones we haven't filled yet). I built wire "hats" for the peach and pear trees to attached to their cages, so the deer don't reach over and help themselves to the tender buds.

Going to get out there today around 10; it should be 40 degrees by then. I am shooting to get the poles done on the 4th side, and perhaps start hanging fence wire, but I may be a bit ambitious on this plan for the day.

Got some seeds in from True Leaf yesterday, mostly replacements for ones I'm either out of or low on, but 2 that I want to try for the first time - butternut squash and celery.


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## clancey

When you do your garden area with the wire what size width of holes is it? I think if you would go a bit smaller in space this would be better--just thinking...clancey


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## Dan Freeman

If I am understanding you correctly, Mrs. Clancey, the poles for the welded wire fencing are spaced anywhere from 6 to 6.5 feet apart. I believe it took 64 t-posts to enclose the food forest.   When I put up the poles for the outside electric fence, they will be about 18 feet apart or so. I am figuring on another 20 to 25 t-posts for the electric fence.

If you are talking about the actual fence opening size, it is 1" x 2" openings.

We got all the work done today I was hoping for despite it being in the 40's, no sun, windy, with periods of something frozen. We finished putting in the last 100-foot side of t-posts, hung another gate, and got 100 feet of welded wire put up on t-posts. My body is going to pay for it tonight, though.


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## clancey

I use hard wire on my fencing for the birdies about a 1/2 or a 1/4th opening so that no critters can get through into the inside of the "fly pen" just wondering...Yea you going to be tired and your muscles will hurt as well. Your doing a big job but it will all be beautiful in the end--if it ever ends--lol  I am going to try to make a garden spot area with hard wire and a large middle gate if I can but I have so many other things to do so right now I am not sure..Thanks...clancey


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## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> The Celebrity is a very prolific plant, but the Big Boy tomatoes will weigh more and need stronger support. I used to grow Brandy Boy which is a cross between Big Boy and Brandywine. Great tomatoes and huge. Our largest was over 2 pounds.
> View attachment 294579



That is a beautiful tomato, Begreen.  It looks perfect for a BLT.


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## DuaeGuttae

Dan Freeman said:


> If I am understanding you correctly, Mrs. Clancey, the poles for the welded wire fencing are spaced anywhere from 6 to 6.5 feet apart. I believe it took 64 t-posts to enclose the food forest.   When I put up the poles for the outside electric fence, they will be about 18 feet apart or so. I am figuring on another 20 to 25 t-posts for the electric fence.
> 
> If you are talking about the actual fence opening size, it is 1" x 2" openings.
> 
> We got all the work done today I was hoping for despite it being in the 40's, no sun, windy, with periods of something frozen. We finished putting in the last 100-foot side of t-posts, hung another gate, and got 100 feet of welded wire put up on t-posts. My body is going to pay for it tonight, though.


Congratulations on getting that fourth side in.  I can imagine that you’ll be feeling it in the coming days, but in the coming years you will enjoy strolling through that food forest without having to wrap your plants because the deer will be on the other side of that fence.


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## DuaeGuttae

I took my camera out to the garden this afternoon, and I thought I’d share few pictures of what’s been transplanted and germinating and growing.

Yesterday I transplanted eggplant, a few varieties of peppers, and a couple of basil plants.  I’m hoping that our cold nights are past, and I wanted to get these into more soil.  They look like they are settling into their new homes just fine.







If you look closely, you can see the flowers that are beginning on the container tomatoes.  These are my earliest blooming of the plant I set out at the end of last month.

My pole beans and some seeds from my salad mix that I recently sowed are starting to come up.  Each morning I’ve been filling a couple of watering cans from my rain tanks and gently soaking the bed.  
	

		
			
		

		
	





My tillage radishes have pretty much all started to bolt at this point, but I’m really enjoying the blooms and hoping that they’ll be helpful in attracting beneficials to the garden when there isn’t much else in bloom at this point.  The range of colors from white to pink to lavender has been really delightful to see.





I have cucumbers sprouting indoors that I need to pot up soon.  I’m hoping I can get to it early tomorrow morning.


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## EatenByLimestone

Added soil to the starting trays.   I’ll start transplanting the tomatoes tonight.  They grew a ton in the last few days and I’ll have to cut their roots heavily.   I’m not overly worried though.   I generally bury them deep once they hit the garden.   They’ll have plenty of roots by then.

The peppers grew a lot too!    

And maybe most important, the aerogarden supplies I ordered came in!    Just in time!


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## EatenByLimestone

Shout out to my wife for saving 20 something quart containers from takeout orders of soup!   Lol


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## clancey

Lime you have a smart wife and she plans ahead..Yes.. All your gardens are looking just wonderful and so healthy looking as well..Here is my picture of my garden.  clancey


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## Dan Freeman

We got another side of fencing up today. This one was harder to do since it was on flat ground and then up the hill. We couldn't make a straight run. As the hill progressed, we had to cut the fencing in to sections and overlapped it on some of the poles to accommodate the rise in the hill. It took most of the day, but we have two sides covered.

I have to go back and secure the 2 sides on 3-4 points on each pole. Then, we have to run a 2-foot apron out from the fence along the ground to keep diggers out. I'm hoping in another week, we'll have all the wire fencing up, fully attached, and along the ground. After that, I can run the electric fencing.


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## DuaeGuttae

Good work, @Dan Freeman. 

We had great weather this morning as it was cloudy with some humidity in the air, so it was wonderful for getting my cucumbers into soil.  Their roots had really grown too long, though the top growth is slow, so they look funny in their big bags, but I have no doubt that they’ll make use of that space before I get them to my garden.  They spent the day outside today, mostly in the shade, since the sun did come out this afternoon.




(The non-cucumber plant is another start of Mexican Mint Marigold which can be grown as a tarragon substitute in hot climates.  I’m trying to get it started this year as I didn’t succeed with direct sowing last summer.)

We had thunder and lightening last night but no moisture that could be measured at ground level, but I could feel the humidity in the air.  Normally “refreshing” is not a word I associate with humidity, but it has been so, so dry here, that I really found it felt wonderful to be out in slightly moist air this morning.   There is a slight chance of storms tomorrow, the edge of what sounds like it could be a bad system for others.  I certainly don’t want violent weather for anyone, but we really could use the rain down here.  Thankfully some did fall last night on a large wildfire in the area (not a danger to us personally) and helped to keep it from spreading overnight.

@clancey , thanks for the picture of your garden.  It’s looking lovely.  I especially like how the sunlight shines through the tomato leaves in that particular shot.


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## clancey

That's exactly what I liked about the picture but did not see until the printed printed on the screen,,I figured you all would like it...That mint plant baby looks really healthy and maybe this year it will make it. Personally I do not think that the Texas weather will change for the best although it will get warmer in time but cold for now...Just saying no proof..lol.lol.  On the cucumbers I see two adorable little leaves with a small one started so they are looking real good. We lived in a rented acreage and we planted cucumbers and I used to spray the caterpillar off the plants with water.  "Being organic at that age",. and one day we had to leave within a week---true story here and this was "down south", so we packed knowing we had to leave our garden and we took one last look right before we left and there was one cucumber that was large enough to eat and we split it in two and "yummy yummy" it tasted so so good and it was small but pretty...clancey


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## EatenByLimestone

We’ll that’s unexpected!   I can start peas in the aerogarden!   Awkward, but you can see how many peas I was willing to experiment with, lol.


----------



## Dan Freeman

EatenByLimestone said:


> We’ll that’s unexpected!   I can start peas in the aerogarden!   Awkward, but you can see how many peas I was willing to experiment with, lol.
> 
> View attachment 294691



They sprouted fast! 

I was almost hoping it would rain today, but tomorrow looks like the stormy day. After 3 days of fencing work, both of us are so sore and achy, especially our hands, arms, backs, legs, and feet. Our noses and ears are about the only things that don't hurt. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But, today is going to be nice, so maybe we can get the 4th side of fencing up and the garden will be enclosed. After that, we still have to go back and secure the fencing in 3 places on the rest of the posts (two sides done already) and attach the 2 foot ground apron all the way around (1 side done already). I'm aiming for Easter Sunday to be finished. Next week I'm planning to get the perimeter electric fence done. Then, finally, I can remove all the cages I built around each individual tree and bush.


----------



## begreen

We are having a week of nighttime temps in the mid to low 30s. Yesterday it even snowed briefly. This is more like WA weather from the 1970s. I'm glad I bumped my schedule back 2 weeks this year, though it may be more like 3 weeks. Still, I have a lot of babies that just got transplanted to 4" pots in the greenhouse that don't like cold feet. I may need to start up the wood stove in there at night.


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## EatenByLimestone

I feel like I’m playing catch-up this year.   I did find a store closing out seeds for a dollar a pack.    I bought 3 packs of spinach, lol


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## Dan Freeman

I stopped using my grow lights over my tomatoes they are growing so fast; I'm afraid they will be so big I'll have to up pot them before planting them outside. All my flowers are coming up and in various stages of growth. My peppers and the few eggplants I have seem to be growing so slowly. I need to get the remainder of the new raised gardens filled so I can get my squash, melon, beet, turnip, pea and string bean seeds in the ground.

We got the 4th side of fencing up today, so the food forest is now completely fenced in. I still have some minor wiring to do where there are seams and at the corners. We also got another 100 feet of apron fencing on the ground and attached to the main fence. Two more sides of that to do, and we can move onto the electrical part. I am actually glad it is going to rain tomorrow. My body needs the rest. I'll spend the day getting orders ready for delivery. It's spring and everyone is beginning to put in their first big orders.


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## clancey

That.s a lot of fencing you all did and it took a lot  of planning plus some amount of money to do this project..What a job you are doing...That electric fence would scare me--lol lol..I bet you start on another  project soon just as big to fill it in with your plants as they grow and grow...clancey


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## DuaeGuttae

Congratulations, @Dan Freeman .  What sort of business do you run that spring is a busy order season?  Is it garden related?

I did a little more potting up today, just a few plants the roots of which were already getting long in the Aerogarden: a single luffa that is the only one I’ve successfully germinated so far, one cucumber that needed reseeding when I potted up my others, three Balsam flowers, and two little tomatoes that got started later than my others.  It was cooler today than yesterday by about 10 degrees (86 instead of 95, I think), so it was a good day to get them exposed to the outside in some shade.





There are still mostly herbs and flowers that are slowly growing or still germinating in the Aerogarden.  The back row is basil that only took about two days to sprout now that temperatures are in the 80s in the room where I start them.  Then there is a tiny za’atar plant that I’ve been nurturing for weeks, some lemongrass in the middle, and a tiny bit of thyme in front.

We’ve now eaten the last of the beets that were growing alongside one of my trellises, so that area is open now.  I have plans to grow Seminole pumpkins there, so I need to think about sprouting them soon.


Last Saturday when I planted my peppers, I pulled up some onions to make room.  I didn’t need that many green onions so I decided to dehydrate them to renew my supply of onion powder.  I filled my five dehydrator sheets last night with slices of the onions themselves and then the abundant green tops.  They dried down and ground down to a fine powder with a wonderful smell.


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## Dan Freeman

Nice! Homemade onion powder! 

No, our biz is not garden related. We sell our own brand of jams, salsas, bbq sauces, salad dressings and dip mixes. Our customers are mainly farm stands, farm stores and little country stores. Once the weather starts to turn nice, we get busy, and it lasts right up through November.


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## EatenByLimestone

Oh, never thought of making onion powder!    Nice!


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## Dan Freeman

Lime...get yourself a good dehydrator. Excalibur is the brand we have. It is considered one of the best. Don't go cheap. (https://excaliburdehydrator.com/). We do a lot of hydrating of summer crops to use during the winter, both whole and powdered. Last year, we bought a freeze dryer, too. Not cheap, but another great way of preserving food for even longer term. (Think food shortages, which are coming.)


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## EatenByLimestone

I’ve had a good dehydrator for about 20 years now.   It has a really short cord that makes me remember the long gone puppy that thought it was too long.    We mostly use it for Jerky and dried veggies, but I’ve made fish food, fruit roll ups, etc in it.  I think I’ve dried basil and parsley in it too for herbs.

Every once in a while an idea comes out of the blue at you and you wonder how you never did it before.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

I have lots and lots of onions planted this year, more than I intended because the company sent me extras to make up for sending me too few by mistake at first.  Because of some really crazy winter weather, probably the super-warm December, a good number of my onions are bolting.  Those will need to be used or preserved pretty quickly when I harvest them, so I’ve been thinking about different ways to do that.  I figure I’ll dice and freeze some, but since the ones I pulled recently were lots of green and little bulb, drying into onion powder was a better option.

I have an older 5-tray Excalibur dehydrator, and I was shocked just now when I looked at their website to see their current prices.  They don’t seem to make the economy version that I have any more, and that’s too bad.  I’ve loved the dehydrator and gotten great use out of it over the years for yogurt, fruits and vegetables, and jerky.  I hope to get many more years of use out of it.

I had a pleasant surprise this morning in the garden.  I discovered seed pods on my daikon radishes.  They had just appeared and were small but oh, so delicious!  I’m growing them mostly as a cover crop/soil improvement, and I had actually been planning to cut the foliage on at least some of them tomorrow.  Maybe the radishes heard me say so and produced this yummy surprise in an effort to save themselves (or maybe they’re just mature enough since it is 60 days from germination).  The seed pods tasted very similar to the roots, and I could see them being good in salads or stir fries or even fermented.  We ate a bunch today straight off the plants, so I could see it being hard to gather a big harvest.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Peppers repotted temporarily.   The root structure will outgrow the pots pretty quickly.

I refilled the aerogarden with a dwarf kale that I got the seeds on clearance, lol.    Kale freezes nicely.   Don’t recommend kale chips.  Dehydrated them once, don’t remember being enthusiastic about eating them.


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## EatenByLimestone

I had a really spicy radish that I grew a few years ago.   I think I was the only one to eat them so I never grew them again.  They were great though!


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## begreen

EatenByLimestone said:


> Peppers repotted temporarily.   The root structure will outgrow the pots pretty quickly.
> 
> I refilled the aerogarden with a dwarf kale that I got the seeds on clearance, lol.    Kale freezes nicely.   Don’t recommend kale chips.  Dehydrated them once, don’t remember being enthusiastic about eating them.
> 
> View attachment 294780


Our kale chips came out great. I was dubious but a friend convinced me to try them out. The trick is to use the least bitter kale and season it nicely. I used spike (seasoning salt), garlic powder, and a bit of chili powder.


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## EatenByLimestone

Maybe it was a seasoning issue.    I’m willing to try it again this year.


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## Dan Freeman

Even though it is very good for you, I'm not a big kale fan any way it is prepared or dried.

We actually had a long break in the rain today, so we ran outside and finished the ground apron around the entire food forest, and I put in the support posts for the gates. The physical fence is officially finished. We'll start installing the perimeter electric fence next week.

Happy Easter or Passover to all!


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## clancey

You did quite a job there and its large but well done...May  I ask this question--why so many supports for the gate --could not it be done another way more flush to the fence--or maybe the wind is strong in that area--what gives? But beautiful nevertheless,,,wonderful job and almost finished..yea....clancey


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## Dan Freeman

clancey said:


> You did quite a job there and its large but well done...May  I ask this question--why so many supports for the gate --could not it be done another way more flush to the fence--or maybe the wind is strong in that area--what gives? But beautiful nevertheless,,,wonderful job and almost finished..yea....clancey



On one side, you need a diagonal brace to keep the gate from sagging and to keep  the t-post it is on from moving back and forth when opening and closing the gate. On the other side (where the gate latches) you want the diagonal braces to stedy the t-posts so nothing can push through the gate when it is latched. Remember, these are only t-posts driven into the ground at 18 inches. They are not set in concrete.


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## clancey

Well that makes sense and I am into "gate mode" this week for my carpenter will be here to shore up a few things because of the wind...I am just going to patch it up here and there--nothing major., and fix a few minor things as well...Busy week for me...Everything looks really nice and your efforts was well worth it--just very nice....clancey


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## EatenByLimestone

That’s a lot of work!   I bet it’s nice for it to finally be done!   

We use kale in Portuguese kale soup a lot.  We can go through a lot, quickly with that.  It’s a sausage and potato soup.   Pretty tasty.   It also gets mixed with salads and stir fry’s.


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## DuaeGuttae

Congratulations on a big job well done, @Dan Freeman .

We really enjoy kale in our family.  I’ve done kale chips before years ago, but our favorite method of cooking it is a variation of an Indian recipe from a Julie Sahni cookbook.  It uses mustard oil, which can be hard to get in our area, so we just use sunflower oil with mustard powder mixed in.  We sautée the kale in that then at the very end add minced garlic and sautée lightly.  Season with salt and red pepper.

I spent a long time in the garden on Saturday, working on refilling my huge terra cotta pot and then filling all the ollas.  We also harvested some of our garlic, not because we thought it was ready, but because all the foliage had dried up and fallen over (despite my regular watering).  I really don’t know what went wrong there.  We left the green plants in place but lifted the ones that looked beyond recovery.  Some were only rounds, some were small heads with cloves that no one would be proud of.  We’re going to save them to replant in the fall.  In the meantime I dug a lot of compost into the area where the garlic came out so that it can get ready for okra this summer.  

@EatenByLimestone , how are your peas doing?


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## Dan Freeman

Thanks, DuaeGuttae!

I can't believe they are calling for 3-5 inches of snow tonight. Last week, we took the straw off the 39 heads of garlic we planted last October. They are almost a foot tall. We may have to put the straw back around them for tonight! We're starting to get blooms on our 2 peach trees. Between last night's 25 degrees and tonight's snow, I'm not sure if the blooms will make it. But that's OK. I am not expecting fruit this year. This is a growing year for them, but I can always hope, right?


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## clancey

Of course your going to get fruit this year---and the picture frames are waiting...Everything is just beautiful and such hard workers you all are--yes...There is only one thing that I do not like and that is the gate and I would think it would be a double gate so that wider vehicles can get through and I would somehow support it in concrete instead of those "wings" on it--lol  lol...Kale is okay with me with "limits"--really green and curly looking but okay....Hope you all had a nice Easter and here you all go working "overtime" again but I sure enjoy all your results...clancey


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## Dan Freeman

clancey said:


> Of course your going to get fruit this year---and the picture frames are waiting...Everything is just beautiful and such hard workers you all are--yes...There is only one thing that I do not like and that is the gate and I would think it would be a double gate so that wider vehicles can get through and I would somehow support it in concrete instead of those "wings" on it--lol  lol...Kale is okay with me with "limits"--really green and curly looking but okay....Hope you all had a nice Easter and here you all go working "overtime" again but I sure enjoy all your results...clancey



LOL, Mrs. Clancey;  we don't have wider vehicles; in fact we do everything by hand with both of us being 66 y/o. No tractors or major equipment.  It is only a few months ago we bought an electric wheelbarrow, and the gate openings are plenty wide for it to go in and out. We are "old school" and don't have the money for "vehicles". The electric wheelbarrow was a "luxury" for us at $4000. I would love to have a tractor or other all-terrain-vehicles, but that is not in the budget at $10,000 to $25,000.


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## Dan Freeman

We got 12 of the 24 posts in for the electric fence today which will be 2 feet out from the physical fence. We hit a lot of shale as we drove the posts, so was grueling work, with some taking over 200 "hits" with the post driver just to get them 24" into the ground.


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## EatenByLimestone

My peas are about half an inch tall.   

I haven’t planted any outside yet.   Only spinach and lettuce in some tubs.   They might be under 5-10” of snow tomorrow, lol.   I’m going to do my 1st basil harvest tonight.


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## DuaeGuttae

That basil looks good.  I love how harvesting it makes it bush out even more.

The garden excitement down here today was that I spotted my first green tomato.  It’s on a small variety called “Taste Patio” that I’ve never grown before.  I have two plants growing in a large (huge) terra cotta pot with cages around them.  I have hopes that it will be a good tomato for drying.

I also shelled out okra seeds this morning from dry pods that I saved last season.  I put ten in some water to soak.  They’ll go in the area where we cleared out some garlic.  I’ll do more later in the season after the rest of the garlic is done.


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## EatenByLimestone

Well, the weather guessers didn’t lie, lol.


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## Dan Freeman

Nothing like spotting that first tomato, DuaeGuttae!

Lime, you got much more "slush" than we did. (Not that I am complaining! LOL) Hopefully it will be gone by this afternoon since the ground isn't frozen and it is supposed to go up to 45, with maybe a hint of some sun.


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## begreen

EatenByLimestone said:


> My peas are about half an inch tall.
> 
> I haven’t planted any outside yet.   Only spinach and lettuce in some tubs.   They might be under 5-10” of snow tomorrow, lol.   I’m going to do my 1st basil harvest tonight.
> 
> View attachment 294870


Our peas are about 8" tall. I have held off due to the wild weather we have been having but I think they must get in the ground today.



EatenByLimestone said:


> Well, the weather guessers didn’t lie, lol.


The contrast in gardening environments in this thread is pretty extreme. We had our first tiny cukes showing last year at this time in the greenhouse. This year the greenhouse cuke is only 5" tall and our tomato plants are even smaller. I went to the local Fred Meyer to pick up some patio plants yesterday. Last year their veggie selection was robust. This year it was pathetic. The 12" tomato plants were in shock and sickly olive green. We're off to a late start, more like the 1970s weather this year.


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## EatenByLimestone

95% of my gardening is in my kitchen and living room at the moment.   Tomato’s are camped out on the fridge, basil and onions on the window sill above the sink, peppers, kale, couple pees, etc are spaced around the living room.


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## Dan Freeman

We got the rest of the t-posts in today for the electric fencing and all the insulators attached in addition to filling 3 of the new raised beds with soil. Tomorrow, after fertilizing everything in the food forest, I will start running the wire for the electric fencing. I am running 4 strands at 8", 16", 30" and 45"...about 1600' of electric wire.


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## EatenByLimestone

That’ll make the bunnies jump!


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## DuaeGuttae

I harvested a head of broccoli yesterday, and we ate it tonight for dinner with some homemade Chinese orange chicken and rice.  My nine year old got to cut the broccoli into florets for me.  She really enjoyed that (though she didn’t like the part where she had to wash some eggs off the underside of a leaf).

We had an abnormally cool day yesterday (high of 68 is quite cool for us these days) with lots of cloud cover, and we ended up having misty rain in the evening that actually amounted to almost 1/4 inch of accumulation.  I was delighted to get it (though, of course, we could use more).  This at least gave me a couple hundred more gallons in the rain barrels to help me keep the garden alive for longer.  I’m so thankful.

The misty rain also gave us a strange power outage last night due to utility poles in the area catching on fire.  Everything is covered in dust and pollen at the moment, and the moisture adds just the right element, I guess.  Here’s an article I found that explains the phenomenon.









						Light rain interacting with dust leads to multiple electric pole fires across Austin
					

The Austin Fire Department says that the light mist falling across the area Friday is interacting with dust has caused multiple electric poles to catch fire since midnight. Austin Energy says cracked insulators mixed with dust and rain allow for electricity to




					cbsaustin.com


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## Dan Freeman

What a nice fresh head of broccoli, DuaeGuttae! I'll bet it was delicious.

That is really strange about the power poles. I've never heard of anything like that.


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## EatenByLimestone

I love broccoli.   I usually buy plantlets though.   Maybe that’ll change next year.


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## begreen

That's a beauty DG!


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## DuaeGuttae

Thanks, gentlemen.  We did enjoy the broccoli, and the good news is that I have two more plants with small heads.  It’s been a bit cooler, so they may even have time to size up without bolting.   I only had three plants this spring (replacing the three I lost this winter), so I’m pretty pleased.   Only one of my three cauliflower plants has grown, however, and it shows no sign of heading.  

We’ve also had some asparagus spears popping up.  We’re letting the green fern but are hoping to harvest some purple.  There hasn’t been enough for a meal, but we added a few purple spears to store-bought (green) asparagus for dinner tonight.  The purple spears were so sweet.  Yum!  (They weren’t purple after cooking, by the way, but the green was different.)


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## DuaeGuttae

Just this morning I was walking across the “barren wasteland” (what we called the part of our property where our garden is when we moved in) with my youngest.  I spotted what looked like an asparagus spear.




If a bird dropped a seed there in the past couple of years, would a new plant look like that?  I thought they’d be tiny wispy ferny things?  Any suggestions on what else this might be?


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## begreen

It sure resembles an asparagus. They get wispy as they get bigger.


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## EatenByLimestone

Looks like asparagus to me too.     They have well developed root systems and can go for generations untouched.    I've walked through the woods and found them.   150 years ago there was probably a homestead there.


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## Dan Freeman

Today, we got the 4 Magnolia vines planted at the 4 corners of the pergola, and we dug a trench almost 40 feet long, 2 feet wide, and 1 foot deep in order to plant our 20 asparagus plants. We'll fill the trench with the 50/50 mix of topsoil/mushroom compost. Also, got every plant in the food forest fertilized with its "favorite" fertilizer. Exhausted!


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## DuaeGuttae

Whew!  That trench work alone sounds exhausting enough, but it will be a great start for your asparagus.

I’ve been pondering our mystery asparagus shoot today off and on, and I think I have a reasonable idea of where it came from. It’s under a large oak tree near the trunk, not a place I think likely for a crown to have been planted by any previous owner.   I’m not sure about old homesites in the area. Originally our whole subdivision was ranch land, but the owners sold off the part of the ranch on one side of the road, and it got developed in the 1990’s. I believe that that family still ranches on the other side.  Asparagus can grow here, but it’s not known for being as long-lived as it is in colder areas.

I think the most logical explanation I have is that a bird took the seed, sat in a branch, and then dropped it by whatever means.  Last summer was unusually wet, so it could have germinated more easily. We don’t mow in this area (there’s no need), but we do pull problem plants.  If I haven’t identified a plant as being harmful (the hit list right now is horehound, a couple varieties of thistle, and bindweed), it gets to live.  If a ferny plant grew there last year, I would have left it.  It probably grew last year but never got very big like the jungle of asparagus in my garden, so I never recognized it, and so this must be a second year shoot.  If that explanation is correct (and it seems the most likely to me), I’m pretty impressed with the plant.  I suppose that even though we’re in drought, the shoot would come up from the reserves in the crown that the plant made last year when the weather was more favorable. 

It’s a beautiful, almost pink color.  We do grow “Purple Passion” asparagus, and it goes to seed.  I wonder if this is an offspring of that, just lighter because it’s more stressed than the garden plants.  I’m almost tempted to put a cage around it.


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## Dan Freeman

Today we decided the 40-foot x 2-foot x 1-foot trench was not big enough to plant the 20 asparagus plants, so we made it about 8" deeper and 6" wider. The ground in that area is all clay. Figured we do it right the first time! We will back fill the trench with a 50/50 mix of topsoil and mushroom compost just above the crowns. As they begin to grow, we will keep adding some of the 50/50 until the trench is filled.

We also got the 12-gauge wire strung for our grape vines (1 Concord and 1 Niagara) and planted them and attached the insulators for the electric fence to the two entrance gates.

Tomorrow, maybe begin to plant the asparagus, and plant the elderberry and 2 gooseberries. After that, we have 3 Hazelnut, 2 plums, and 2 cherries to plant.


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## EatenByLimestone

Careful with clay, it can make a bucket due to its small soil size and drown the plant.   Are you in a low spot where the water is going to run to?    

I’ve also had instances where the roots run around the curve of the hole and don’t bite in.    Roughing up the edges was the advice I was given and it seems to have worked well.


I finally got to work on the garden!   I raked out 2 beds to pull the debris off and started pulling fence off to replace.  I think I found the hole that the bunnies were using last year.  That’s going to disappear, lol.


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## Dan Freeman

EatenByLimestone said:


> Careful with clay, it can make a bucket due to its small soil size and drown the plant.   Are you in a low spot where the water is going to run to?
> 
> I’ve also had instances where the roots run around the curve of the hole and don’t bite in.    Roughing up the edges was the advice I was given and it seems to have worked well.
> 
> 
> I finally got to work on the garden!   I raked out 2 beds to pull the debris off and started pulling fence off to replace.  I think I found the hole that the bunnies were using last year.  That’s going to disappear, lol.


 I don't have much choice with all the clay. That is why we are digging down almost 2 feet and will be replacing the clay with good soil. The area can get quite wet but it takes a few days of heavy rain to happen. I am also considering digging a swale to the side that can collect water to lead any buildup from heavy rains further back and away from the area.

Glad to hear you got to work in the garden today. Feels good, doesn't it?


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## EatenByLimestone

I’ve got clay too.   It’s one of the reasons I went for raised beds.    At some point you have to work with what you’ve got!

I needed it!   The weather has been so cold this spring.  I feel like I’m half a month behind, but there’s no way I could have planted when I wanted anyway.


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## Dan Freeman

There are other areas in the food forest we could have planted the asparagus where there is less clay and better run off, but I got out-voted by my better half! I just hope this is not a mistake. I had even suggested we plant them in a few raised beds to keep the crowns up off the ground. We just bought 10 new raised beds back this past winter and have others we are going to be moving down there.

Same here about the cold Spring.  Our daffodils didn't bloom until the 2nd week of April and the buds on most trees have just started cracking open.  Every day I tell my tomatoes in the greenhouse to stop growing so fast since it will be another 3 weeks, at least, before I can plant them outside. They are in 3.5" square pots, and I really don't want to up pot 40+ tomato plants.


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## Dan Freeman

I thought I read somewhere that Elderberries are self-pollinated, so I just bought one. This morning I found out that their self-pollinating properties are poor, and I will need another variety for good pollination, so I just ordered a York Elderberry to go along with my Adams Elderberry.

To keep track of the 30+ trees/bushes and vines, I put together a list. This is what we have planted so far or will be planting within the next week. We will also be planting all kinds of annual vegetables and flowers along with other annual flowers that are not listed here.


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## Northern NH Mike

I'm trying to be a bot more organized with my vegetable garden this year.  Put together a list of dates things should be started indoors and outdoors before the "last frost".  I have some San Marzano tomatoes that i started indoors before I got organized.  Just transplanted them from the peat pellets to some pots yesterday.  Going to get some potatoes and onion sets out shortly and start my peppers inside.


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## Dan Freeman

Northern NH Mike said:


> I'm trying to be a bot more organized with my vegetable garden this year.  Put together a list of dates things should be started indoors and outdoors before the "last frost".  I have some San Marzano tomatoes that i started indoors before I got organized.  Just transplanted them from the peat pellets to some pots yesterday.  Going to get some potatoes and onion sets out shortly and start my peppers inside.


Way to go, Mike!  BTW, we love the San Marzano's for sauce. We plant them every year.


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## Dan Freeman

Well, we didn't exactly get done what we planned to do today, but we got a lot of work done.

First, we moved 3 locust raised beds from the backyard down to the food forest. If you have ever worked with locust, you know how much it weighs. Probably the main reason why it makes such good, raised beds. It is so dense and weighs a ton; it just about never rots.

We also got the electric wires from the tool shed and the electric fence energizer down to the electric fence buried underground.

We also got a huge area leveled off where stumps were buried over 20 years ago when the food forest area was all woods. Over the years, this area has sunk down about 2 feet.

And for something different, I repotted into larger containers 4 of my pond plants. They were so root bound, I had to use an axe to cut through them.

Just another typical day here at MoonShadows Farm.  

Cooking chicken on the BBQ with homemade potato and macaroni salad...of course after 1 or 2 gin and tonics!

Tomorrow is another day.


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## Dan Freeman

I had my phone in my pocket today, so I took 2 pictures. We planted the 20 asparagus roots in the trench covering them with 2" of soil, adding bone meal, and watering them in. As they push through, we will keep adding soil until the level comes up to the ground around the asparagus.

We also got the 3 raised beds filled for the cantaloupes, acorn squash, and cucumbers. I have netting I will attach later to help them climb.


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## begreen

Looks good. What is the framework of these beds made from? Wood? I am contemplating putting in some new beds and trying to decide the materials. Our current beds are concrete and have stood up well, but they have a 12" foot that restricts root depth except in the center of the 4' bed. I have been contemplating the stainless or galvanized metal option. Is it heavy enough to stand up over time? Can one lever a pitchfork off the edge without deforming it? I commonly do this when turning the beds in spring. 

This is what our current beds look like (last year's shot).


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## EatenByLimestone

I was looking at galvanized beds!   It won’t happen this year, but they look like a really good option!


We decided to put a patio in.   So I’m taking out 1 bed.  I transferred half of the raised bed’s soil to 2 other beds that were low on soil.    And filled some holes the pup dug.   Sigh.     While I was working I looked back and saw him start to scrape a new hole.   One yell from me and he stopped and ran to the back door, lol.   He knew.   Teenagers….


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## Dan Freeman

begreen said:


> Looks good. What is the framework of these beds made from? Wood? I am contemplating putting in some new beds and trying to decide the materials. Our current beds are concrete and have stood up well, but they have a 12" foot that restricts root depth except in the center of the 4' bed. I have been contemplating the stainless or galvanized metal option. Is it heavy enough to stand up over time? Can one lever a pitchfork off the edge without deforming it? I commonly do this when turning the beds in spring.
> 
> This is what our current beds look like (last year's shot).
> View attachment 295082



I like those concrete beds. How do you keep the soil from pushing the blocks outward?

The 3 beds in the foreground of that picture are black locust that I constructed. I had the wood cut at a local sawmill - true 2 x 8 x 10; the smaller one is 2 x 6 x 10.  They are 3 years old and show no sign of decay. They should hold up for years. The one in the background is galvanized. When I bought one last year, I was a bit leery as the sides are rather thin, but once put together, it held up very well, so well that I bought 10 more this year. As for levering a pitchfork on the side of the galvanized ones, you can't do that. I also have a number of cedar raised beds as well, which I think are my favorite. Lighter wood and decay resistant.


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## Dan Freeman

EatenByLimestone said:


> I was looking at galvanized beds!   It won’t happen this year, but they look like a really good option!
> 
> 
> We decided to put a patio in.   So I’m taking out 1 bed.  I transferred half of the raised bed’s soil to 2 other beds that were low on soil.    And filled some holes the pup dug.   Sigh.     While I was working I looked back and saw him start to scrape a new hole.   One yell from me and he stopped and ran to the back door, lol.   He knew.   Teenagers….


I got 10 of the 4 x 8 galvanized beds this year for $75 a piece. I thought that was a good buy compared to how much the cedar beds went up in price this year. I just checked and I see the price is at $95 now. Amazon product

My chickens love to dig holes!


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## EatenByLimestone

BG, do you need to turn your beds? I use a 3 prong rake and only disturb the top inch or so of soil.   It gets the debris from last year out.


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## EatenByLimestone

I could probably weed with it too, but groundcover keeps the beds moister.


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## begreen

EatenByLimestone said:


> BG, do you need to turn your beds? I use a 3 prong rake and only disturb the top inch or so of soil.   It gets the debris from last year out.


How do you amend the soil in the beds?

I typically turn the top 6" of the 16" deep beds. The soil in our raised beds gets heavy and compacted by the overwinter rains. I'm thinking about incorporating some sawdust in fall to lighten them up. Early in spring I added llama poo and bedding to a few beds to see how that works out. In the others, I am trying some very good composted horse manure.


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## begreen

Dan Freeman said:


> I like those concrete beds. How do you keep the soil from pushing the blocks outward?


Each block is an L. The bed gets lined with landscape fabric then filled with soil. The weight of the dirt makes these beds very stable. 
This picture is not our garden but shows the blocks going in. They can be customized and cost about what cedar does, but last forever.


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## EatenByLimestone

begreen said:


> How do you amend the soil in the beds?
> 
> I typically turn the top 6" of the 16" deep beds. The soil in our raised beds gets heavy and compacted by the overwinter rains. I'm thinking about incorporating some sawdust in fall to lighten them up. Early in spring I added llama poo and bedding to a few beds to see how that works out. In the others, I am trying some very good composted horse manure.


I typically only layer on top.  Kind of a nature mimicry thing.   I suppose the worms turn it too.    Micorrhizal fungi help fungi bring the nutrients to the surface.    I suspect my garden compost is broken down by fungi more than bacteria.


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## EatenByLimestone

Im at Wendy’s.   Can you see starting a few hundred little plants in their ketchup containers?


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## begreen

EatenByLimestone said:


> Im at Wendy’s.   Can you see starting a few hundred little plants in their ketchup containers?
> 
> View attachment 295095


too shallow and no drainage.


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## EatenByLimestone

Probably.   Just seems like a fun thing to try.


I got 2 sets of kale planted today.   Dinosaur and Vates dwarf blue.   I really threw spacing out the window figuring if I kept it trimmed it wouldn’t interfere too bad.   Here’s the dwarf in a 7 gallon tub.  Then I noticed I had 6 plantlets left and decided to do a long term experiment with the aerogarden.  Vates is supposed to do well in heat,  and grow well all year long.   And the long term growing pods have 6 spots.   Here we go!   I’ll report back on how they do all summer long!   Lol


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## begreen

We have been growing rainbow lacinato lately. It's a cross between red russian and dinosaur kale. I like it because it's less bitter.


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## EatenByLimestone

I planted a Russian kale a few years ago.    I think it was Siber Frill Kale.   It seemed to do well.


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## Dan Freeman

begreen said:


> Each block is an L. The bed gets lined with landscape fabric then filled with soil. The weight of the dirt makes these beds very stable.
> This picture is not our garden but shows the blocks going in. They can be customized and cost about what cedar does, but last forever.
> 
> View attachment 295094


I've never seen those L shaped blocks. Makes for a nice-looking bed.


----------



## Dan Freeman

EatenByLimestone said:


> I typically only layer on top.  Kind of a nature mimicry thing.   I suppose the worms turn it too.    Micorrhizal fungi help fungi bring the nutrients to the surface.    I suspect my garden compost is broken down by fungi more than bacteria.





begreen said:


> How do you amend the soil in the beds?
> 
> I typically turn the top 6" of the 16" deep beds. The soil in our raised beds gets heavy and compacted by the overwinter rains. I'm thinking about incorporating some sawdust in fall to lighten them up. Early in spring I added llama poo and bedding to a few beds to see how that works out. In the others, I am trying some very good composted horse manure.


I do just about the same thing with my beds as Limestone. I also use a good amount of vermiculite in my raised beds which helps to keep the soil from compacting as well (and helps to hold moisture and nutrients, slowly releasing both). I swear by Micorrhizal fungi. I always sprinkle it on the roots as I am transplanting. The powder form can also be mixed with water and applies as well. I would avoid sawdust. It will most likely tie up nitrogen. I know wood chips on the surface don't, but if you dig them in, they will tie up the nitrogen until they break down.


----------



## begreen

Dan Freeman said:


> I would avoid sawdust. It will most likely tie up nitrogen. I know wood chips on the surface don't, but if you dig them in, they will tie up the nitrogen until they break down.


I hear you, though my understanding is that the nitrogen is not depleted, it is temporarily bound up. I have two beds where I mixed in a sawdust/high nitrogen compost blend that used alder sawdust. Alder is a legume and the sawdust breaks down quickly. Those beds have the best tilth of any of my beds year after year. They are full of big worms too. So theoretically I was thinking of amending these beds with this blend in fall to let it mellow over winter. It's often available for free and I can supplement nitrogen in the spring. 
Vermiculite is another option I hadn't considered. It would take a lot to be effective enough to amend 8 beds (4'x14'x16") which could get expensive. Each bed is close to 75 cu ft. How much per bed would be required? Are there large volume sources that are safe? I have read that vermiculite retains water well, which is not an issue for our beds. My concern is that it might get over soggy over the winter and retain moisture too long and thus compound the problem?


----------



## Dan Freeman

begreen said:


> I hear you, though my understanding is that the nitrogen is not depleted, it is temporarily bound up. I have two beds where I mixed in a sawdust/high nitrogen compost blend that used alder sawdust. Alder is a legume and the sawdust breaks down quickly. Those beds have the best tilth of any of my beds year after year. They are full of big worms too. So theoretically I was thinking of amending these beds with this blend in fall to let it mellow over winter. It's often available for free. Vermiculite is another option I hadn't considered. It would take a lot to be effective enough to amend 8 beds (4'x14'x16") which could get expensive. Each bed is close to 75 cu ft. How much per bed would be required?


Yes, bound up is probably more accurate than depleted. You are right, there. (I used "tie up".) I didn't know Alder was a legume! Take a look at Ggeenhouse Mega Store. I buy 4 cubic yard bags of course vermiculite from them with free shipping at a reasonable price of 30-something a bag. Much cheaper than you will pay for smaller bags at Lowes, Home Depot, or your local nursery. I checked the other day. I think they expect it back in stock by the end of April. You do have a lot of bed space to cover. Start off with doing a few a year to spread the cost out. Once you mix it in, you never have to replace it. I use about 2 cubic feet per 4' x 10'  x12" bed.


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## Dan Freeman

Just too nasty to work outside today. 46, cloudy and windy! I just started a fire in the stove. I've been busy migrating all the files from my 9-year-old computer to my new computer.

We got another delivery of 5 cubic yards of the 50/50 mix today (50 topsoil/50 mushroom compost). That's 20 cubic yards so far this year. We pay $45 a yard for each 5-yard delivery plus a $50 delivery fee. Luckily, I am friends with the nursery owner. His usual deliver fee is $90!


----------



## DuaeGuttae

Years ago we used Perlite in our raised beds in Virginia.  I think it still retains water but not quite as well as Vermiculite.  I'm not totally sure on that, but it might be worth investigating as another possibility.    

@begreen , I'm surprised that moisture retention is a problem for you with such low annual rainfall.  I guess it all comes at the wrong time of year for you or something.  Do you use a mulch on your beds in the winter? Or cover crops?

I have used woodchip mulch in the past, but I'm trying to move away from that because it's hard for me not to get it incorporated into the soil more than I prefer.  I've used shredded oak leaves this past winter, and I think I'm going to stick with those as much as I can in the future.  I think the mulch helps prevent some of the compaction that occurs with driving rains (though we haven't had much of those this winter at all).  Overall, however, mulch is more beneficial to me than going without it, even if it does temporarily tie up nitrogen.  That alder sawdust mixed with high nitrogen compost sounds pretty awesome, especially if it's available for free.  I get excited when I see worms in my beds because I know that something good is happening in the soil.

I grow tillage radishes as a cover crop when I can.  I do it primarily for the soil drilling effect under my beds, but they certainly make abundant greenery.  I can see that being helpful as well in shielding the soil from hard rains.  I just cut down my grows of greenery this past weekend and added it to a compost bin full of shredded leaves.  The radishes didn't make huge roots for me because I planted them too late, but I left that root matter in the soil to decompose.  I've noticed that this seems to attract earthworms to those areas as well.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

@EatenByLimestone , I am gradually clearing seedlings out of my second Aerogarden, but there are still some herbs that are very slowly growing that I want to get better roots.  The first Aerogarden has been empty for a while, but I had been thinking of trying to grow some Komatsuna in it as an indoor crop.  Now I'm wondering about the smaller kale that I have.  I'll have to look into that.  

Cabbage worms have arrived in full force on my broccoli and cauliflower leaves.  I've been smashing them regularly the past couple of days when it has been (thankfully) damp in the mornings.  Since the chances of rain are past but it is still a bit cooler and cloudier than normal, I sprayed some Spinosad this morning to see if that will help.


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## begreen

DuaeGuttae said:


> @begreen , I'm surprised that moisture retention is a problem for you with such low annual rainfall. I guess it all comes at the wrong time of year for you or something. Do you use a mulch on your beds in the winter? Or cover crops?


Moisture retention is an issue for our shallow-rooted crops in the summer, but definitely not an issue fall through spring. I do mulch in the summer when I have a good source of mulch, but I need to be careful. Last year I put grass clippings on, but too late. The grass had tons of new seeds in it and by late fall I had a nice lush crop of lawn grass on my beds. Oy! I had this happen once before with in ground crops that I mulched heavily with bedding straw. The straw was full of seed heads and created a real mess in pathways. I do use shredded leaves in fall but need to get more than our yard produces. Daikon radishes are great for a fall crop in in-ground beds. They set very deep roots. I don't think that would work for our raised bed, but maybe there is a shorter variety?

Use BT and maybe diatomaceous earth for cabbage worms. Spinosad is harmful to bees.


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## EatenByLimestone

I just went looking at my local nursery for broccoli plantlets.   None in yet, but they had peppers?   Huh?   *shrug*.  Then I remembered I had the aerogardens.   I put about 30 seeds down.   

The peas went into the kale bed.   They’ll be long gone by the time the dinosaur kale gets big.


----------



## begreen

EatenByLimestone said:


> I just went looking at my local nursery for broccoli plantlets. None in yet, but they had peppers? Huh? *shrug*. Then I remembered I had the aerogardens. I put about 30 seeds down.


How many aerogardens do you have?


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## EatenByLimestone

3.    I bought 1 on clearance because it looked cool.   DG said how much she liked hers, so I decided to pick 2 more up.    This was in the middle of a blizzard so they didn’t go fast, lol.  If it wasn’t for them being marked down I never would have bought the first one.  

I think they would have been worth the price now, but I’m cheap and would have had a hard time trying something new for that much when I’d been successful enough in the past.


----------



## begreen

What is a good price?


----------



## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> Moisture retention is an issue for our shallow-rooted crops in the summer, but definitely not an issue fall through spring. I do mulch in the summer when I have a good source of mulch, but I need to be careful. Last year I put grass clippings on, but too late. The grass had tons of new seeds in it and by late fall I had a nice lush crop of lawn grass on my beds. Oy! I had this happen once before with in ground crops that I mulched heavily with bedding straw. The straw was full of seed heads and created a real mess in pathways. I do use shredded leaves in fall but need to get more than our yard produces. Daikon radishes are great for a fall crop in in-ground beds. They set very deep roots. I don't think that would work for our raised bed, but maybe there is a shorter variety?
> 
> Use BT and maybe diatomaceous earth for cabbage worms. Spinosad is harmful to bees.



I think I phrased my “moisture retention” comment badly.  I was trying to express surprise that your beds hold on to too much moisture at all because I remember being shocked by just how low your rainfall totals are.  Isn’t  it something like 16 to 18 inches a year?  I need to get my beds to hold on to more moisture than they do.

Grass all over the garden beds and pathways sounds awful.  I’ve been guilty of using compost that wasn’t finished or had had something fresh added, and have had a lush covering of tomato seedlings.  Thankfully those are pretty easy to eradicate.

We have an abundance of leaves at the moment.  We do get some in fall, but the majority of ours fall in March.  We try to make piles of leaf mulch to have available for when we need it.  We’re far behind on that project this year, but the leaf drop has been behind, too.

Knowing that you have concrete and landscape fabric under your beds, I agree that  daikon would not be a good option.  I wonder if something like Austrian winter peas would suit.  I’ve never grown them, but I know others love them.

Thanks for the warning about Spinosad.  I don’t use it lightly and take precautions precisely because of pollinators and other beneficials.  Right now there is no honeybee activity in the bed because there are no flowers.   I also did it early in the morning so that it could dry as I understand that is important.  I expect this is the only time I’ll spray the plants because I’ll be cutting them soon.  I was hoping this would get into the cracks and crevices where I can’t see and mush.  Mostly I just try to squash worms and eggs, but they were starting to get ahead of me, and I needed help.  I had this in my cabinet but no BT on hand.  I have a hard time using BT down here because it isn’t as effective in really high temperatures, which is precisely when I need it most.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

begreen said:


> What is a good price?



Harvest 360 at $80 each.


Looks like they’re currently being offered at $160-101


----------



## Northern NH Mike

Got some onion sets out two days ago and we had two inches of snow late yesterday


----------



## begreen

Northern NH Mike said:


> Got some onion sets out two days ago and we had two inches of snow late yesterday


A friend is visiting in CT. I was surprised to see that there are no leaves on the trees yet. We've had a record cold April, yet most of the leaves are out or starting to be.


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## EatenByLimestone

It’s stupid cold this year.   Silver maples are just starting to leaf out here.   It’s still mid 30s at night.   I’ve had tomatoes and zucchini in the ground by now in past years.


----------



## Dan Freeman

Coolest (coldest) Spring I can remember in years. Everything is late! Feels more like the end of March, not the end of April.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

My two youngest kids had a sick day off of homeschooling today, so I had a little extra time to take care of some planting in pots and planters around the house.  I replenished the soil in some large pots on our front porch and transplanted some seedlings for Balsam flowers (touch me nots) into them.

  I also worked on a planter in the backyard that was probably built by the previous owners.  It sits in front of a south facing window and gets lots of afternoon heat and sun.  It can dry out easily, but it also gets pounded by roof runoff when there is rain since that portion of the house doesn’t have gutters.  I’ve had herbs in it before but nothing was coming back except a few garlic chives.  I decided earlier this spring to give lemongrass a try.  I managed to germinate one seedling, and it has been growing slowly, but I decided that it had enough roots to go out today.  It’s the tiny blades of green in the very center of the top tier.  (The taller blades are the garlic chives.). It’s hard to believe that tiny shoot has the potential to grow tall and thick, but that’s just what I’m hoping it will do.






 In the front tier I put one more Balsam seedling as well as some Mexican Mint Marigold/Texas Tarragon.  I mulched with wood chips to help control the soil splashing, but that may well defeat my hopes of having the Marigold and Balsam reseed themselves in this spot.  First, of course, I just have to get these seedlings established here.  Here’s a shot of the Mexican Mint Marigold.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

34 this morning.    Winter has beaten me.   It took to late April, but I'm done with it.   This is March weather.   Im going to accelerate fast this morning to do my part for global warming.

I have almost all of the soil moved now from the bed that will be disappearing.    So beds are full again.


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## Dan Freeman

We got one of the plum trees and one of the cherry trees planted today. It took us over 2 hours to break through the Zoysia grass and all the shale in the soil. We dug extra big holes and back filled with good soil/compost. Tomorrow, we'll plant the other plum and cherry trees.

Started filling two more of the raised beds, too. It took me over an hour to water everything. It has been very dry the past few days with very low humidity. In fact, we are in a fire warning right now.


----------



## begreen

EatenByLimestone said:


> 34 this morning.    Winter has beaten me.   It took to late April, but I'm done with it.   This is March weather.   Im going to accelerate fast this morning to do my part for global warming.
> 
> I have almost all of the soil moved now from the bed that will be disappearing.    So beds are full again.


I thought the same here. We are about a month behind in temps locally as a strong La Nina continues in the Pacific. But then a friend visiting back in CT posted some pictures. I couldn't believe the trees were all still bare. We started leafing out a few weeks ago.


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## Dan Freeman

We got another cherry tree (Bing) and another plum tree (Methley) planted today. Filled 3 more of the 4 x 10 raised garden beds with the 50/50 mix, peat moss, and vermiculite. All 10 are now filled. Still have to move the raised beds from the backyard down to the food forest. We also got about 100 feet of the 2-foot ground fencing covered with cardboard and wood chips. We also got a delivery of 10 cubic yards of "sawdust" from out wood guy. Exhausted. Treating ourselves to Olive Garden takeout chicken parmesan, salad, and bread sticks.

Tomorrow, we want to get the 3 Hazelnut trees planted, and start covering more grass with cardboard/wood chips. Also hoping to get some of the electric fence run. Monday looks like rain, so we want to take advantage of the nice weather tomorrow.


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## clancey

Good Job.. but take some time off for yourself and family too...I like Olive Garden especially their bread sticks and salad and everything is looking really nice as well,,clancey


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## EatenByLimestone

How's your back feeling, Mrs. Clancy?


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## Dan Freeman

Thanks, Mrs. Clancey, but we are fighting mother nature and the planting season, so it's hard to take some time off this time of year.

Well, I really didn't want to have to do this, but I think I am going to have to up pot my 40 tomato plants to larger pots. Usually, they are about a foot tall when I put them outside. This year most are already 1.5 feet tall, and it is at least another 2 weeks before I can safely plant them outside. They are in 3.5" pots. I have a bunch of 5" pots that I will move them to.

My plantar fasciitis in my left foot is throbbing today. That's what I get for walking on uneven ground covered with wood chips all day yesterday as I covered about 100 feet of the ground fencing with cardboard and chips on the hill side of the food forest. Working in the greenhouse today transplanting will at least keep me on level ground for today.

Now that all the new raised beds are filled with soil, I am anxious to start direct sowing my cukes, cantaloupes, acorn and butternut squash, beets, turnips, carrots, celery and more. I have over 200 pots of flowers that I have started that I need to plant, too. Every year I say I am going to cut back, and every year, I plant more. Must be some kind of sickness!  LOL


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## EatenByLimestone

This is the first year I shrank the garden.   It was only the prospect of having to tear up a planted bed that got me to decrease the size.


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## begreen

It's the first year in decades that I am thinking of cloching many plants and using row covers for the tomatoes.


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## Dan Freeman

We got the 3 Hazelnut trees planted today, more wood chips over cardboard down, and I up potted the 40 tomato plants. As I mentioned earlier, I didn't want to do the up potting, but it wound up being a very relaxing, "therapeutic" hour or so. Here is the aftermath of the up potted tomatoes and the rest of the plants in the greenhouse.




Here is the latest picture of the food forest. While we have over 30 trees/bushes/vines planted, it is hard to see them in this pic since it takes in such a large area and all the plants are small. I will start taking pictures of individual plants as they grow.


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## Woodsplitter67

I planted my garden today. tomatoes peppers red bell and banana. 60 onions lettuce, watermelon ans cantaloupe  eggplant zucchini.as well as the seeds bush beans, peas ,cucumber and sugar snaps..


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## begreen

Woodsplitter67 said:


> I planted my garden today. tomatoes peppers red bell and banana. 60 onions lettuce, watermelon ans cantaloupe  eggplant zucchini.as well as the seeds bush beans, peas ,cucumber and sugar snaps..


That is a busy day. Are these all from starts or some from seeds too? I have a greenhouse full of starts but I'm waiting for the soil to warm up some more.


----------



## Dan Freeman

Woodsplitter67 said:


> I planted my garden today. tomatoes peppers red bell and banana. 60 onions lettuce, watermelon ans cantaloupe  eggplant zucchini.as well as the seeds bush beans, peas ,cucumber and sugar snaps..


Wow! You had a busy day!


----------



## Dan Freeman

begreen said:


> That is a busy day. Are these all from starts or some from seeds too? I have a greenhouse full of starts but I'm waiting for the soil to warm up some more.



Same here. It is still getting too cold at night to put my seedlings out.


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## begreen

Cooler than normal temps are again predicted for here through mid-May at least.


----------



## Woodsplitter67

The tomatos peppers and stuff were started back in February. All started from seed and in early march moved to the greenhouse. My son and I planted everything and sowed the seeds over the entire weekend.  We've been working on the garden for a couple weeks cultivating and getting any weeds out. Its been really dry, sunny and windy so it cleaned up nicely. I needed to get the tomatoes out of the greenhouse.. they were getting beat up in there. the pictures were taken 4-10. The humidity the past 7 days in the greenhouse has been like 5% when iv been getting home. The peppers are enjoying that as well as the celery.. tomatoes... not so much


----------



## Woodsplitter67

it was cool mid week, probably would have had frost if it wasn't for the wind. im like 8 days or so  past the last frost date, the 7 day says average temperatures so I put them in


----------



## clancey

Lime my back is much better but its been awhile  and pulled muscles sure take a long time. I might have broke a vertebrae or more as well but getting better every day. With all of you in this food plant business I am beginning to think you all have food insecurity---lol..Everything is looking just beautiful and you are all such hard workers  and for me my three plants are enough for now.. Now Begreen what is cloching plants?  Woodsplitter--your just as bad as all the rest on here with all the work and quanities of plants you are putting into the ground but the food coming does sound good.
Now everybody take a break and relax on this Sunday and eat good too--food for the spirit...Interesting reading everyone and soon I will take a picture of my three plants and whatever I do next with the yard outside...if anything...Freeman get some inserts in your shoes and that will help a whole lot but try them out first before buying... Enjoyed and happy Sunday everyone...clancey


----------



## begreen

Looks good Woodsplitter. My biggest tomatoes are reaching that size. I will need to decide on whether to repot or put in beds with a row cover soon. For the first time ever, the pepper starts are in complete revolt. They are the same age as the tomatoes but still have not set true leaves. This is for multiple varieties and they have been on a heating pad.


----------



## Woodsplitter67

begreen said:


> Looks good Woodsplitter. My biggest tomatoes are reaching that size. I will need to decide on whether to repot or put in beds with a row cover soon. For the first time ever, the pepper starts are in complete revolt. They are the same age as the tomatoes but still have not set true leaves. This is for multiple varieties and they have been on a heating pad.



is your greenhouse heated.. if so what is the nighttime temperature..


----------



## EatenByLimestone

I fully admit to food insecurity!    As I said earlier, I've never seen a president say there will be food shortages before.   They choose their words carefully.  I'll take their word on this one.   Thats enough to get me to put a little more effort than normal to get food production up and running.   

Pulled the boat out of winter storage and that'll go in the water next weekend!  That'll provide the meat part of food insecurity, lol.   I'm paid to trap all sorts of things, but I'm not insecure to eat them, yet, lol.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

@EatenByLimestone,  when I was in fifth grade, my mother trapped a groundhog that had been devastating her garden.  She borrowed a gun from a neighbor, dispatched him, cleaned him, soaked him in brine in the refrigerator, and fried him up for dinner.  It really was delicious.  She said that, of course, he tasted good.  He’d been eating all of her fresh garden produce before she got to.

@Woodsplitter67 and @Dan Freeman , you both have been working hard.  I’m impressed.

@clancey , I’m glad your back is improving and that your three plants are well.  

@begreen, we’re on the border between the darkest orange and the middle shade.  It hasn’t been too bad this spring heat-wise (but the drought and winds and fire danger haven’t been a picnic).  It will be a different sort of hard on the garden this summer, though, if we have higher than normal temperatures and continued drought.  I feel for you, though, with such lingering cold.

I spent a good chunk of time in the garden yesterday.  I had to fill all the ollas, and I also pruned off some of the lowest foliage and suckers on my larger tomatoes.  It filled my son’s little five-gallon wheelbarrow.  It was nice to get a closer look at the plants, though, and I found more baby tomatoes.  That is always cheering.

Here are some photos for cheer.

A very small sunflower.  It was sent in a little cup in a tiny wooden box as a gift for my husband from his work a year ago.  I opened it up and watered it this year but coudn’t bear to keep the sprout in its tiny container, so I potted it up and transplanted it out.  It’s only a foot high but very pretty.  The second shot is a small okra seeding.




Here’s a picture of a tomato I pruned yesterday.  The pot behind it is empty, and the green behind that is my asparagus plants that are ferning.  The next two shots are some of my container tomatoes.





Finally, some basil that I topped when I was pruning.  I have the tops in a glass of water on our dining room table because they’re so pretty and fragrant, and I’m hoping they’ll grow roots so that I can give them away.


----------



## Dan Freeman

Just watered and picked tomatoes from my Tiny Tim plants in my den. Since 12/17/21, I have picked 910 tomatoes from 8 plants. There are still some more green ones, so I will probably end up with about 950 when all is done. After that, I am going to dump the plants since I have new Tiny Tims coming up in my greenhouse that are already getting blooms.


----------



## begreen

That's impressive. How is the flavor of Tiny Tim compared to say Sweet Million? Do you have the plant under a grow lamp?


----------



## Dan Freeman

begreen said:


> That's impressive. How is the flavor of Tiny Tim compared to say Sweet Million? Do you have the plant under a grow lamp?


The Tiny Tim's are very sweet and low acid. They are great in salads or just to pop a few in your mouth as you pass the bowl by in the kitchen. I have never had the Sweet Million, so I can't compare. I kept the TT's on two levels of a baker's shelf with 1 Happy Leaf 33" ProcyonPro LED Grow Light on each level. https://happyleafled.com/


----------



## begreen

Sounds like a nice solution. How many hours a day are the lights on? Before you take the plants down can you post a picture of them? I may try this for next winter. When did you start the Tiny Tims?

Sweet Millions have been our red cherry tomato for years. They are prolific, disease-resistant, and crack less in cool fal weather than Sweet 100s.


----------



## Dan Freeman

begreen said:


> Sounds like a nice solution. How many hours a day are the lights on? Before you take the plants down can you post a picture of them? I may try this for next winter. When did you start the Tiny Tims?
> 
> Sweet Millions have been our red cherry tomato for years. They are prolific, disease-resistant, and crack less in cool fal weather than Sweet 100s.


I kept the grow lights on 16 hours a day.

I started them near the very end of September. Here they are on October 6th.






October 16th






October 24th after I moved them to bigger pots.






November 3rd






And here they are on December 15th when the first tomatoes started ripening. (Total days to ripening @75 days.











After the "first crop", there was a slowdown of a couple of weeks, and then they started blooming again with a "second crop". The 2nd crop is just about finished now. As I mentioned, I might be able to get a 3rd crop, but the plants are getting kind of "raggy looking" now, and I have new plants blooming in my greenhouse. Here's a picture I took this afternoon, but it is not the best since I moved the rack from the wall to in front of the windows the last few weeks - not for production purposes, but we rearranged the room.






I have never tried Sweet Millions. I just looked them up, and they remind me of Rapunzel tomatoes which grow in just about the same fashion. I have 5 Rapunzel tomatoes in my greenhouse now waiting to be moved outside. I did buy some Sweet 100 seeds just last week, but I'll probably not get them started for this season. I already have 40 plants in the greenhouse.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Can the World Feed Itself? Historic Fertilizer Crunch Threatens Food Security
					

(Bloomberg) -- For the first time ever, farmers the world over — all at the same time — are testing the limits of how little chemical fertilizer they can apply without devastating their yields come harvest time. Early predictions are bleak.Most Read from BloombergBiggest Treasury Buyer Outside...




					finance.yahoo.com
				




Bloomberg on food security issues


----------



## EatenByLimestone

I just got an email yesterday that my tiny tim seeds shipped, along with some baby bok choy. 

I'm hoping to ladder them over the winter to provide a table snack.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

I have tried sweetie, and am pretty sure sweet millions.   They both went over well with the kid.   The sweetie were grown in the shade under a peach tree.


----------



## clancey

I love Bok choy and much better than cabbage but more expensive as well..Does anyone here do any sprouts or anything? Just wondering for they say that is full of good nutrition these sprouts are. clancey


----------



## Dan Freeman

I got a bunch of seeds planted today in 5 of the raised beds:
cantaloupes
acorn squash
butternut squash
cucumbers
scallions
2 types of bush beans
2 types of peas
beets
turnips


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Mrs Clancy, try purchasing the bok  choy at the Asian supermarket.   They sell so much there it’s cheap.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

I really stripped our basil tonight for some pesto.   This was our second meal of it.   I think the first was 2 weeks ago.   We probably harvested 2x what we did last time.   I can't wait until it fills out again! The natural sun really gives it the kick it needs!


----------



## clancey

I use basil for my spag. sauce--. How do you make your pesto? I might try to plant basil when I can and forgot about that seed...I have mint growing really well and the other two plants (lettuce and tomato are doing okay). Next week I am going to try to get them into the ground and I started some holes in the grass but I will wait until my carpenter gets here next Tuesday and have him dig the holes for me...I will wet it down first to get the ground softer but I could only attempt to dig so far so I will leave him do the hard stuff. clancey


----------



## Dan Freeman

I like architectural items in my gardens like large rocks, statues, etc. With the food forest, the items have to be pretty large, so they won't be dwarfed. That is one reason why I decided on the pergola that I built last summer.






I've been thinking of putting in a decorative windmill, and I found one I like, so I bought it today. It is 10 feet tall.






I also bought a cedar bench that will go in the pergola, so we can rest and admire our work.






I will probably lug the 4-foot concrete angel statue down there. I think this will be the 5th location for this statue since we bought it over 20 years ago.






My better half wants a wishing well, but hasn't settled on one yet.


----------



## clancey

Everything is beautiful and I would get some tables and more benches and rent it out for weddings lol lol..and yes you need a fishing well for  everybody needs a wishing well.  wonderful..clancey


----------



## Dan Freeman

I have my eye out for old park benches on Craig's List.


----------



## Dan Freeman

Cloudy, drizzly day. Couldn't really work outside, so I transplanted all the shasta daisy, blackeyed susan, and yellow fern yarrow plants from their 3.5" pots into 9" pots. Once they grow a bit more, I will start transplanting them around the perimeter of the food forest. I also have other mature shasta daisies and purple cone flowers to transplant down there. I still have a lot of yellow fern yarrow and blackeyed susan seeds left, so I may start another round of them in the greenhouse.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Rainy here too.   I got the quote for my patio.  Ouch.     They also want me to take the peach tree out.   


I got my seeds today.   I’ve never seen packages like this before!


----------



## Dan Freeman

Cute little packages. What company?

I am waiting for a landscaper to give me a price on a curved staircase/steps from our backyard down the hill to the food forest. Like your patio, I'm sure I'll be saying "ouch", too.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Hudson Valley Seeds.   

It was double what I thought it’d be.  But to be fair, I wanted a fairly specific product.   I’m on clay like you, so I knew it’d heave.  I wanted a 6” slab instead of 4.   Instead of just fiber reinforced, I want rebar and mesh.   A bit of extra work now will save grief when it heaves.    I want to do anything I can to stop it from cracking.


----------



## Dan Freeman

EatenByLimestone said:


> Hudson Valley Seeds.
> 
> It was double what I thought it’d be.  But to be fair, I wanted a fairly specific product.   I’m on clay like you, so I knew it’d heave.  I wanted a 6” slab instead of 4.   Instead of just fiber reinforced, I want rebar and mesh.   A bit of extra work now will save grief when it heaves.    I want to do anything I can to stop it from cracking.



Smart thinking. Pay up front, but no grief later on.


----------



## begreen

If it's a good producing peach tree I would have them work around it. They are also nice for shade.


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## Dan Freeman

Today I ran the 4 strands of electric wire around the entire food forest and began the hookups from the energizer. The entire fence is now energized except for the two gates. I will run the jumpers to the gates tomorrow, weather pending.


----------



## Dan Freeman

Egads! I am glad I don't build bamboo trellises for a living! I spent 4 hours today on the front porch making 1 - 7 x 7 trellis for the Magnolia Vines. There are 64 joints. I got 47 of them tied off; another 17 to go. The worst is the first row or two as the bamboo keeps "jumping" around as it is being tied. Also, the thin, waxed twine not only coats your fingers with wax, but wreaks havoc on your hands trying to keep it tight. My fingers are going to be sore tonight.

All in all, I am pleased. I should be able to finish the joints on this one tomorrow and start the other one on another rainy day.

Here are a couple of pics of my work today.


----------



## clancey

Such intricate work and yes sore fingers tomorrow..I am wondering about the electric wiring and how much of a shock goes along with that electric fence. Let me know when you decide differently on the gating in a few years" maybe" for I don't like them--lol---you already know that for I already questioned them--lol  Just saying...Wonderful work and its really coming along--good for you....clancey


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## Dan Freeman

clancey said:


> Such intricate work and yes sore fingers tomorrow..I am wondering about the electric wiring and how much of a shock goes along with that electric fence. Let me know when you decide differently on the gating in a few years" maybe" for I don't like them--lol---you already know that for I already questioned them--lol  Just saying...Wonderful work and its really coming along--good for you....clancey



The fence delivers 1 joule of energy at 10,000 volts every 1 second. It's enough to give any animal (including a bear) quite a shock but will not cause any damage. An electric fence is not designed to cause damage (like electrocution) but to act as a strong deterrent and something to avoid even when what's on the other side of the fence is highly desirable. (The pain outweighs the pleasure.)

Just curious. What is it about the gates that you don't like. They actually work quite well for this set up.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

I’ve always been able to hear an electric fence as it powers on and off.   It’s a nice backup to seeing the insulators on the post, lol


----------



## clancey

I just don't like all those tie lines on it and wanted it more flush but I guess the soil or something is not proper for that or maybe could not secure it good. I wanted you to dig fence posting to make it flush without anything streaming outside of the fence distance for it seems like it would interfere with grass cutting or something and I just do not like that kind of support wires stretching out but no big thing--just me--lol...You should hear the discussions when I get to talk to my carpenter of over 25 years---you would laugh---but your food forest is beautiful and all you hard work shows it..
Opinionated clancey--lol


----------



## Dan Freeman

No, by all means, I understand what you are saying. Those right-angle supports are necessary when using T-Posts since t-Posts are not set in cement. They are simply driven into the ground 18-24 inches. I could have used wood posts to support the weight of the gates and keep them from sagging, or the posts from moving when opening and closing, but it would have meant digging a hole of about 3 feet and setting the posts in concrete. Too much work, especially in this rocky soil. I was lucky enough to get my t-posts in as far as I did.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

We got some rain this week!  About six or seven tenths in a storm on Wednesday night.  I am very thankful for the moisture for the soil, the additional water in the rain tanks, and that we didn’t have super high winds or hail.  I did shelter my last transplants (some cucumbers I’m growing for my pastor’s family) under the table on our deck as the storm was moving in.  I didn’t want them to blow off as I had had happen to some tomatoes earlier in the summer when it was really windy.  They still got moisture from rain splash and water dripping through the table top and looked happy for it. 

I try to fill the ollas in my garden every Saturday (and mid-week, too, during the summer).  I did it a day early this week, though, to try to beat the heat.  We’ve been cloudy and cool(ish)—80’s—this week until today when the sun returned, and it got well in to the 90’s.  Tomorrow’s forecast calls for a high of 102, and we have three days with heat like that.   I have some okra seeds on soaking now for seeding tomorrow morning.

I still have onions in the bed where I plan to plant out sweet potatoes, and my slips are thriving in their planter on the back deck.  I had worried when I was first starting to grow them that I wouldn’t be able to get enough for myself and the neighbors, but I’ve already helped them plant two dozen over two raised beds, and this one planter will be more than enough for the space I have.  I’m trying to decide if I should cut the ends off and try to find ways to give more away, or if I should just let them keep on growing and plant huge slips.   I’m sure I’ll have more than I need.  Anybody farther north want me to mail some?  They’re either Beauregard or something very similar.


----------



## Dan Freeman

We had rain all day today and will have it most of the day tomorrow, up to 3". Glad you got some relief. I couldn't imagine being that dry. I heard this weekend is supposed to be scorching hot in Texas. Very healthy-looking plants.


----------



## clancey

That's sweet of you just like those slips growing...They are very pretty and they look like house plants of some kind growing...You will enjoy them and if too many you will figure out something of this I am sure..Tomorrow we are going to have 87 degrees and your temperature sounds "just a bit too hot"--lol....But we are going to get wind too..Lime and Freeman do you think that fencing will hurt the birdies?  clancey


----------



## Dan Freeman

No, it will not hurt the birds even if they land on it because they will not be grounded. In order to get a shock, you have to touch the wire and the ground at the same time. The electricity flows into the ground and back to the ground rods completing the circuit, causing the shock. That is why you can see birds sitting on high voltage wires with no harm. The high voltage wire is usually the topmost wire between electric poles, the one that is not insulated.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

Dan Freeman said:


> We had rain all day today and will have it most of the day tomorrow, up to 3". Glad you got some relief. I couldn't imagine being that dry. I heard this weekend is supposed to be scorching hot in Texas. Very healthy-looking plants.



It was scorching hot today in my opinion.  It wasn’t too bad in the morning, but it was 90 degrees by noon and went up to 101.   The sun was intense. My husband and I do a lot of outside work on Saturdays, but we called it quits pretty early in the afternoon today.   We needed to vote in two different elections, and walking across those asphalt parking lots in the heat was something.  Even my six year old was commenting on it.

Before it got too hot this morning, we did some work spreading compost.  I also made some five-gallon bucket planters for my pastor’s family.  We have two 7-foot-tall, four-foot-wide trellises that we aren’t using this summer, so we’ll be loaning them out for the cukes to climb.  I was a really glad to get these into more soil before the afternoon heat hit today.  They were getting big, and big plants can use water quickly, so this gives them access to a lot more.




I think my sweet potatoes slips grew another foot just today.  They’re a good crop for this area because they enjoy the heat.

I also harvested my bolted onions today.  I had been letting them flower for the pollinators, but I have some other plants that are coming into bloom, so I pulled these out so they wouldn’t take water from the rest of the crop that’s still maturing. I need to chop up the onions and freeze them, but not tonight.  I think I’m worn out from the heat.


----------



## Dan Freeman

Sounds like you are roasting in Texas, and it is so cold, windy and damp here after the two days of rain that we have a fire burning in our wood stove tonight. Great looking cukes. Like the inverted water bottle idea.


----------



## Dan Freeman

Just added 4 new berry bushes to the food forest. They should be arriving this week.

2 Indigo Gem Haskap (Honeyberry)





2 Cumberland Black Raspberry


----------



## EatenByLimestone

__





						Perennial vegetables to plant this season
					

Dave Scandurra is a landscaper in Barnstable who focuses entirely on edible gardens. But instead of annuals that need to be put in from seed every spring, he prefers perennials — plants that keep coming back on their own.




					www.capeandislands.org
				





I tried to grow sea kale, it didn’t take off.   Someday I should buy more seeds.  They had a huge shell on them.   Got horseradish already.  

Im surprised they didn’t mention good king Henry which is growing in a few places.   https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blitum_bonus-henricus

I tried to plant stuff in the beds to encourage fungi.   It worked in some beds, not in others.


----------



## kennyp2339

I noticed at tractor supply that the price of 48" x 100ft metal mesh fencing went down, I bought 2 rolls for $100 ea ( yea I know its expensive) my idea it to prep and possibly plant a new vegetable garden (30x40) in the next few weeks, the long term plan is to shift the current garden to the new spot and then plant pare tree's at the current garden spot, The new spot seems easier to work and closer to my hose line for watering, sun light is about the same, soil drainage is about the same, its all about getting the soil ready for next year.


----------



## clancey

Kenny your garden area is larger than my house and yes I would put the garden right next to the water supply...good thought and I will be looking at mesh fencing too and glad the prices are lower now..(making a gate and not all wood so the wind don't blow it down like it did my solid wood gate.) My carpenter does not know about this new idea of mind just yet---lol...I looked up the difference between perennial and annuals and that was interesting but the pictures were so pretty so I thought I would share it on here--especially because it is Mothers Day. So I am sending you two pretty pictures DuaeGuttae. You know those water towers that stick up in the air and they are for the storage of water would this be possible for holding water--just an idea here---lol... maybe just a small one--anybody thought of that especially in the dryer climates...I never liked the taste of asparagus not for me...too green....I would like the plants that come back every year and are they harder to keep ? Why look at grass and all you have to do is cut it down so that it is pretty--just a thought here...My three plants will go into the garden this week and its been really windy here and for now and all week very dry and fire danger areas. Can't win for losing for we got rain but everything grew and now dry and too dry especially with all the wind..I put horseradish in my bean soup for it gives it a "zip" for flavor. I love Black Raspberry but the seeds get in your teeth but so pretty...enjoyed...clancey








						What's the Difference Between Perennial and Annual Plants?
					

Spring is officially here at Garden Heights Nursery! As plant and plant care experts, there are some questions that we commonly get from customers, one of the m




					www.gardenheights.com


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Convenience is more important as I get busier.   I started tubs on the little deck I have so I could just step out the back door for food.


----------



## clancey

Sounds good to  me I would put it "right next to the icebox" if there was sun..lol lol clancey


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## Dan Freeman

EatenByLimestone said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perennial vegetables to plant this season
> 
> 
> Dave Scandurra is a landscaper in Barnstable who focuses entirely on edible gardens. But instead of annuals that need to be put in from seed every spring, he prefers perennials — plants that keep coming back on their own.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.capeandislands.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I tried to grow sea kale, it didn’t take off.   Someday I should buy more seeds.  They had a huge shell on them.   Got horseradish already.
> 
> Im surprised they didn’t mention good king Henry which is growing in a few places.   https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blitum_bonus-henricus
> 
> I tried to plant stuff in the beds to encourage fungi.   It worked in some beds, not in others.



I never grew horseradish. I should give it a try. I like it. I never heard of King Henry. How did you stumble upon it?


----------



## Dan Freeman

kennyp2339 said:


> I noticed at tractor supply that the price of 48" x 100ft metal mesh fencing went down, I bought 2 rolls for $100 ea ( yea I know its expensive) my idea it to prep and possibly plant a new vegetable garden (30x40) in the next few weeks, the long term plan is to shift the current garden to the new spot and then plant pare tree's at the current garden spot, The new spot seems easier to work and closer to my hose line for watering, sun light is about the same, soil drainage is about the same, its all about getting the soil ready for next year.


What size fencing? Are you talking about welded wire. If it is 2x4 opening and 4' high, that's a decent price.


----------



## Dan Freeman

Today, I got the "jumpers" to the wires across the two gates done, so the entire border of the food forest is now electrified. I also stated putting together the frame for the 10' windmill I bought for the food forest.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

@clancey , thank you for my beautiful pictures.  Lantana and alliums.

My onions that bolted have white flowerheads like that on them.  Since I didn’t chop them up last night, I put them all in a big container and put it on the dining room table.  I told my husband that it was a very fancy flower arrangement for Mother’s Day.

@EatenByLimestone, I had heard of some of what the article mentioned but not Sea Kale or Good King Henry that you mentioned.  I would think that rhubarb would work well in a perennial bed.  I’m not sure if I’ll be able to grow it as a perennial down here or not, but at least I have two plants right now that haven’t died yet.  This unusual heat we’re having right now might end up being too much for them.  My sugar snap peas are shriveling up and falling over.

@Dan Freeman , I bet that feels good to have your fencing done.  Congratulations.  Ornamental (and some real) windmills are not uncommon down here.  We enjoy seeing them.

@kennyp2339 , I’d love to hear more about your gardens, old and new.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Just got home and looked outside.   My bins that had kale and peas no longer have kale and peas.    Somebody got them.    I’ve been seeing some rabbits.    Guess I’m going trapping.


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## Dan Freeman

EatenByLimestone said:


> Just got home and looked outside.   My bins that had kale and peas no longer have kale and peas.    Somebody got them.    I’ve been seeing some rabbits.    Guess I’m going trapping.


Sorry to hear that!


----------



## Dobish

In my usual fashion of making things more complicated than they have to be, we decided to keep the garden about the same as it was last year. We did add in a few new plants to the front, but that also meant completely redoing the entire sprinkler system.  We did have some tulips for a little while though! 
	

		
			
		

		
	




We also decided that while we were building the root cellars, we should put in some tiers.... slowly making progress on that, but we will have some more room for our tenants to have a garden. Pics to come shortly


----------



## clancey

I love Tulips and have some by my front door and I guess they were planted in such a way to bloom by Easter every year--but this year they were six days late in blooming. I have just three plants and that's all I want at this time for this is just a kind of a small hobby for me but it is sure nice learning about all these gardening tips and the people on here have real life time experience--not me for I put my first plant in the ground last year--one tomato plant but sure did enjoy it and everyone else I gave tomato's to said they were delicious and that made me feel good..Your tenants will love it even with one or two plants--good thinking...clancey


----------



## Dan Freeman

Dobish said:


> In my usual fashion of making things more complicated than they have to be, we decided to keep the garden about the same as it was last year. We did add in a few new plants to the front, but that also meant completely redoing the entire sprinkler system.  We did have some tulips for a little while though!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 295419
> 
> We also decided that while we were building the root cellars, we should put in some tiers.... slowly making progress on that, but we will have some more room for our tenants to have a garden. Pics to come shortly



Nice! I would be interested in hearing more about your root cellar. I want to build one.


----------



## Dan Freeman

Today, I got two of the tomato trellises built above their 4 x 8 raised beds.




I have two more to do tomorrow.

Here's a picture of the first 7x7 trellis for the side of the pergola for the Magnolia Vines. Unfortunately, two days after I planted the Magnolia Vines, we had a frost, and all the new growth died, but since they are OK in zones 3-8, they are putting out new shoots. You can barely see them in this picture.


----------



## clancey

That Food Forest us really beautiful and well laid out---nice---coming along...clancey


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Started the trapping and exclusion work today.    Used a freshly scented trap.  Should pick up the chuck fast.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

EatenByLimestone said:


> Started the trapping and exclusion work today.    Used a freshly scented trap.  Should pick up the chuck fast.


Good luck!  How did you decide it was a woodchuck and not a rabbit?

We had a nice garden-related surprise this morning.  Our neighbor whom we help out occasionally had noticed that my attempts at labeling my garlic varieties this winter had failed.  Even permanent marker just disappeared.  She decided to get me some plant labels and a special marker that is supposed to resist fading.  My daughter was very excited about the marker, and so I let her write out the plant labels for me this morning instead of doing her normal handwriting practice.  The ink is soluble with alcohol, so the tags are reusable.   We‘ll see how the labels hold up.





I was also very happy to spot some baby beans on my plant this evening.  It’s a new variety for me, and I wasn’t sure how it would fare in our hot summers, so I planted it in March, hoping to have it bloom when temperatures were more moderate.  I worked in that it has been blooming this week when we should be having highs in the eighties.  It failed in that we are having an excessive heat wave.  Temperatures have come down a bit from the weekend, but it still looks like highs in the 90s instead of the 80s unfortunately.  That made me all the more excited to spot the baby beans this evening.  I hope the flowers will continue to set new beans in the coming weeks.


----------



## Dan Freeman

Nice clear writing on those tags!

I just bought some similar plant tags the other day. Usually, my tags fade in the sun, so this time instead of using a regular Sharpie, I bought a Sharpie Extreme is which supposed to hold up better to UV rays and weather elements.

Thumbs up on the baby beans!


----------



## EatenByLimestone

DuaeGuttae said:


> Good luck!  How did you decide it was a woodchuck and not a rabbit?
> 
> 
> View attachment 295427



My daughter saw him in the back yard.    I did some fence maintenance and think I blocked the rabbits from coming in too.


These markers do a good job with the sun and will write on wet things.





__





						Amazon.com : milwaukee permanent marker
					





					www.amazon.com


----------



## DuaeGuttae

DuaeGuttae said:


> Just this morning I was walking across the “barren wasteland” (what we called the part of our property where our garden is when we moved in) with my youngest.  I spotted what looked like an asparagus spear.
> 
> View attachment 294990
> 
> 
> If a bird dropped a seed there in the past couple of years, would a new plant look like that?  I thought they’d be tiny wispy ferny things?  Any suggestions on what else this might be?



I’ve confirmed that the plant is not asparagus.  It didn’t fern up quickly, so I was suspicious.  I had kind of quit checking on it recently.  Seeing it today confirmed that it was definitely something different.  A picture match from the web indicates that it is a type of orchid that lives off mycorrhizal fungi in the soil (no chlorophyll to produce its own food).  The flowers are really very beautiful, and it was quite a surprise.








__





						Crested Coralroot Orchid
					






					www.fs.fed.us


----------



## DuaeGuttae

I finally processed my bolted onions before dinner tonight.  I had left them too long, so the center stalk was hard and needed to be removed.  Then I sliced them in the food processor and used some in a mushroom and onion sauce for pork and froze two pints.  The red and white onions are mostly still standing, but my bed of yellow onions (Texas Legend) is mostly down at this point.  They are supposed to be an early maturing variety.   Harvest is getting close for these.


----------



## Dan Freeman

DuaeGuttae said:


> I finally processed my bolted onions before dinner tonight.  I had left them too long, so the center stalk was hard and needed to be removed.  Then I sliced them in the food processor and used some in a mushroom and onion sauce for pork and froze two pints.  The red and white onions are mostly still standing, but my bed of yellow onions (Texas Legend) is mostly down at this point.  They are supposed to be an early maturing variety.   Harvest is getting close for these.
> 
> View attachment 295452



What are those round clay-looking discs?


----------



## DuaeGuttae

Those are just plant saucers that serve as covers for my underground irrigation.  I have unglazed terra cotta pots (without drainage holes) buried throughout my garden.  I fill these “ollas” to keep a minimum level of moisture by my plants roots.  I need to get out and refill them this morning.  Since it has been so dry my plants are using water more quickly.



			https://extension.arizona.edu/sites/extension.arizona.edu/files/pubs/az1911-2021.pdf
		


The inverted water bottles you commented on in my bucket planters were how I came to learn of the idea.  When we moved here and were planting blueberries in pots I wanted a way to keep the moisture a little more consistent.  After my next door neighbors had a dinner party one night, I asked for their empty wine bottles.  They gladly shared them with me, but they also showed me the ”vacation watering spikes” they used in some of their pots.  They were terra cotta and buried beneath the soil.  When I began to read up on it, I came across literature about ollas.

I’ve found the system to be very helpful in my dry climate.  It takes time to fill the ollas, but it helps prevent evaporation from the surface.  We used to use gravity from our rain tanks to fill, but as my garden has expanded that became too time consuming.  I still use a hose, but we have added a portable pump to the tank, and that really helps speed up the process.  

There are some pictures in this older post (#165) where Begreen asked the same question.





__





						2020 Garden Thread
					

Beware of garden trolls.




					www.hearth.com


----------



## Dan Freeman

I guess when water is at a minimum and the heat is high, you need to do everything you can. Very creative ideas!

I am looking into rain barrels/a rain tank now. The food forest with its 40+ trees/bushes/vines/annual & perennial vegetables is going to take a lot of water, more than we have ever used before. Luckily, except for 1 year out of 27, our well has always been full. However, with more watering we will be using the well pump and the tank that creates the water pressure (forget what you call it) a lot more. Thet means more electricity and the possibility of replacing equipment if they should fail. I'm just starting to research now. My tendency is to go with an opaque black tank of 300-500 gallons to eliminate algae, but then the black will keep the water temperature too hot. I could have it buried, but that adds to the expense. There are insulating jackets that can control the heat, but I am just starting to read about them. I wouldn't need a pump as it will be placed high on the hill above the FF, so it will feed by gravity. As I said, I just started looking into this idea last night.


----------



## begreen

Tomatoes went into the ground 2 days ago. I have a row cover over them.  Hope they will make it. It was 65º yesterday but 42º last night.  I have backups still in the greenhouse if they don't. I also put in a row of carrot seeds.  Broccoli loves this weather. Peas and lettuce are growing, slowly.


----------



## Dan Freeman

Today I got 12 tomato plants planted down in the field and two more tomato trellises built over 4 x 8 raised beds. Tomorrow, I'll plant 12 more tomato plants. With the 5 Tiny Tim's I am going to grow in the greenhouse, that will be 29 tomato plants. More than enough. I also have about 40 tomato plants for my neighbors for their gardens.

I also planted 36 marigolds and zinnias in some of the smaller gardens around the yard.


----------



## clancey

I have two holes for the tomato plant and the lettuce plant and will put them in the ground soon. I dug about 6 inches deep and about five inches wide and I wonder if this is enough for them. My mint plant I will keep in the window container by itself and do you all think this is okay? When I get them in the ground I will take pictures of them...Your garden pictures just look beautiful..clancey


----------



## DuaeGuttae

Dan Freeman said:


> I guess when water is at a minimum and the heat is high, you need to do everything you can. Very creative ideas!
> 
> I am looking into rain barrels/a rain tank now. The food forest with its 40+ trees/bushes/vines/annual & perennial vegetables is going to take a lot of water, more than we have ever used before. Luckily, except for 1 year out of 27, our well has always been full. However, with more watering we will be using the well pump and the tank that creates the water pressure (forget what you call it) a lot more. Thet means more electricity and the possibility of replacing equipment if they should fail. I'm just starting to research now. My tendency is to go with an opaque black tank of 300-500 gallons to eliminate algae, but then the black will keep the water temperature too hot. I could have it buried, but that adds to the expense. There are insulating jackets that can control the heat, but I am just starting to read about them. I wouldn't need a pump as it will be placed high on the hill above the FF, so it will feed by gravity. As I said, I just started looking into this idea last night.



We have an assortment of rain barrels and tanks.  Our first was one my sister made from a recycled pickle barrel (black).  It came with us to Texas, and while the water does get somewhat warm, it’s never too hot for watering the plants.   We added a second smaller barrel that we made ourselves when we still lived in Virginia.  With the rain we got there, they got refilled often, and they met our needs.  (Our garden was also very small.) Once we moved to Texas, however, we realized that we needed to catch much larger amounts of water so that we could store and use it for long dry periods.  We do still use our black barrel here, though, and it doesn’t get too warm.  It doesn’t have a huge amount of sun exposure in its current location, though.

Our current garden tank is 500 gallons and is dark brown.  The hose attached to it gets very warm from lying in the sun, and I just the other day burned basil leaves with it before I realized it had heated up during the break I had taken.  The water coming from the tank is much cooler, though.  We’ve used this particular tank for almost four years, and I don’t think there’s ever been an occasion when we thought that we couldn’t use the water because the temperature was too high.  

Our newest and largest tanks are both pale beige but have thicker plastic than our other tanks, and we have not had a problem with them growing algae.  I think as long as you find a good quality tank, you can choose the color to match your preferences.    I think the brand of our beige ones is Enduraplas, and one of their points of pride is that the plastic is completely opaque to prevent algae growth. 

I wouldn’t think burying the tank or any kind of insulation jacket would be necessary in your circumstances.  I wonder if those are more for protecting against winter freezes for people who don’t drain their tanks or for some specialty plants that have super-specific needs.  I figure if our water remains at an acceptable temperature in Texas, yours ought to in Pennsylvania. 

It continues to be hot and dry down here.  When I went to refill my ollas this morning, I was surprised to find just how low some of them were.  Some were completely empty.  This May has been very hot.

On a different note, while I was watering I saw one spot where a red potato was poking out of the soil.  I decided that instead of burying it, I’d just grab it and find a few others to make a nice dish of new potatoes to go with our leftover mushroom and onion gravy.  My kids just loved mashing the blue (purple) potatoes into the others.  It made a lovely lavender, and new potatoes taste so good!


----------



## DuaeGuttae

clancey said:


> I have two holes for the tomato plant and the lettuce plant and will put them in the ground soon. I dug about 6 inches deep and about five inches wide and I wonder if this is enough for them. My mint plant I will keep in the window container by itself and do you all think this is okay? When I get them in the ground I will take pictures of them...Your garden pictures just look beautiful..clancey



Mrs. Clancey, that size hole would be enough for any lettuce, I imagine.  I don’t know how large your tomato is right now.  It could possibly need a little more room.  If the plant is large and you can’t go deeper, it might be possible to go wider and lay the tomato on its side with the top coming out at an angle.  It’s good to bury a good portion of the stem if possible.  If the tomato is still pretty small, though, it may be that your current hole is good enough.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> Tomatoes went into the ground 2 days ago. I have a row cover over them.  Hope they will make it. It was 65º yesterday but 42º last night.  I have backups still in the greenhouse if they don't. I also put in a row of carrot seeds.  Broccoli loves this weather. Peas and lettuce are growing, slowly.



Is this cold accompanied by clouds or rain, or are you getting sun during the day?  What‘s the forecast like for the rest of May?  Ours in unfortunately hot, the kind of hot where it could be hard for the new tomato flowers to set fruit.  I might have to pull out the shade cloth, but I hate to do it this early in the season.


----------



## begreen

All the above. We're about to head into a very rainy week. The way things are shaping up tomorrow will have the record low high temp for that date. It looks like May could end up with double or even triple normal rainfall. And the long-range forecast is that this may continue until the end of June. My melons are not going to be happy.


----------



## clancey

Thanks--just to be sure I will make the hole a little larger because its a Big Boy tomato so we will see and I made up my special food for it so I hope it grows and grows..thanks again...clancey


----------



## Dan Freeman

Thanks for all that insight, DG. It's good to know that the tank water doesn't get too hot to use on the plants. I guess since I have no experience collecting rainwater, I was thinking if a tank is sitting in the sun the water would heat up and be more like the hot water that comes out of the hose when it has been sitting in the sun for a while, but I guess the sheer volume in a tank would not heat to that level.


----------



## JbTech

Dan Freeman said:


> Thanks for all that insight, DG. It's good to know that the tank water doesn't get too hot to use on the plants. I guess since I have no experience collecting rainwater, I was thinking if a tank is sitting in the sun the water would heat up and be more like the hot water that comes out of the hose when it has been sitting in the sun for a while, but I guess the sheer volume in a tank would not heat to that level.



I'm in SouthEast Ohio, and store my rain water in an IBC tote. Once the water in the hose itself drains, the tank water is almost always cool.
My tank is in full sun until about 3pm.


----------



## Dan Freeman

JbTech said:


> I'm in SouthEast Ohio, and store my rain water in an IBC tote. Once the water in the hose itself drains, the tank water is almost always cool.
> My tank is in full sun until about 3pm.



I don't know what made me think you were in Texas! I'm on a few garden forums, and sometimes I get folk's locations confused.

That's good to know your IBC tote is in full sun until about 3, and the water stays cool enough to water after the hose gets flushed of hot water.

I am looking at Enduraplas Tanks, but most companies charge almost as much in freight as the tank costs. There is an Enduraplas dealer about 100 miles from where I live. I am going to contact them. It would be worth it to drive down and pick it up myself.

I would like to get the 550 gallon tank. I like the lower profile at 60" diameter and 52" high, but I have to measure my van to see if it would fit in the back.





The other option would be the 450 gallon tank, taller than I want at 94" high and a 40" diameter, but I know I could fit that in my van.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

@Dan Freeman , does your van have a tow hitch on it? If so, you might consider renting a utility trailer for your trip.  We transported an 1150 gallon Enduraplas tank with our 5 X 8 utility trailer towed by our mini van.

I’m the one in Texas, by the way.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> All the above. We're about to head into a very rainy week. The way things are shaping up tomorrow will have the record low high temp for that date. It looks like May could end up with double or even triple normal rainfall. And the long-range forecast is that this may continue until the end of June. My melons are not going to be happy.



The rain sounds nice but not the cold.  I guess we’re on opposite sides, if one can say that, of the La Niña pattern.  You get cold and wet, and I get hot and dry.  

How warm is your greenhouse able to get these days?


----------



## begreen

This is going to be a tough year and short season for the heat lovers like eggplant, peppers, cukes, and canteloupe. The tomatoes usually will limp along, but may not be spectacular. Corn will be later than usual too.

The greenhouse temp varies with the sun, but it would get over 100º if I didn't open it up. In the summer the vents and doors stay wide open. At this time of the year I start opening it up when it's above 50º and sunny. I regulate the temp by the number of windows(2) and doors(2) I open. There are also two automatic vents near the peak which open in case I forget, but the temp will get up to 90 if it is 55º outside that way. In the summer (if it ever happens) the greenhouse will be about 10-15º warmer than outdoor temp. I have fans that I can use if necessary to keep it cool and last year I bought a large shade cloth. That saved our plants in the greenhouse during the heat bomb last June.


----------



## bigealta

Here is my deer deterrent strategy in the mini food forest (mostly just fruit trees right now). Hard to see in the pics but just tried to fill it up with as many cross branches as possible so the deer don't want to jump in. Last year they devastated the apple tree, and this year they nibbled some apple tips before i got all this "junk" in their way.


----------



## Dan Freeman

DuaeGuttae said:


> @Dan Freeman , does your van have a tow hitch on it? If so, you might consider renting a utility trailer for your trip.  We transported an 1150 gallon Enduraplas tank with our 5 X 8 utility trailer towed by our mini van.
> 
> I’m the one in Texas, by the way.



I have two cargo vans and neither have a hitch. 

Gosh...For some reason I thought I was replying to you when I mentioned Texas. I was replying to Jb Tech! I am so confused! LOL


----------



## Dan Freeman

bigealta said:


> Here is my deer deterrent strategy in the mini food forest (mostly just fruit trees right now). Hard to see in the pics but just tried to fill it up with as many cross branches as possible so the deer don't want to jump in. Last year they devastated the apple tree, and this year they nibbled some apple tips before i got all this "junk" in their way.
> 
> View attachment 295475
> View attachment 295476
> View attachment 295477
> View attachment 295478
> View attachment 295479
> View attachment 295480



Smart idea!


----------



## Dan Freeman

I got the rest of my tomatoes planted today. Then I spent the afternoon in the front yard. Part of that time was in the neighbor's yard. They have an apple tree they planted 2 years ago that looks pitiful. I trimmed it, dug out all the grass around it, put down 15 gallons of mushroom compost, fertilized it, and topped it off with wood chips. After that, I trimmed some of the ornamental trees in my yard, and then redefined some flower garden borders. I should be in traction tonight!


----------



## clancey

Would not electric fencing take care of that problem...Looks terrible bigealta in that beautiful spot. I can see it as a temporary idea and I applaud your innovation here and let us know if it works..dan freeman---your losing your mind because of all the hard work and no play that's the real reason. Now I asked about those water towers on some  properties that do not have water hook up and would not that work to store water if need be on your properties? Just wondering here...The wind was so bad here I had to cover up my two plants ready to be put in the ground with a trash can with a few bricks on top talk about stupid ideas--this one worked for awhile but finally the trash can blew over and had to move the two baby plants into my back porch so your not the only one with a innovative idea bigealta--lol...Everything looks good and when I get my two plants in the ground I will take a picture of them--I dug the two holes and made them larger..Begreen I would love to see a picture of your green house and I'm suggesting to my carpenter to make me one out of the wood shed with a clear plastic type of roof on it since I will be using different wood to burn when its time to use my wood stove. My goal is to try to grow a whole bunch of " Lilly of the Valley "in it for I believe that particular plant needs shade but I am not sure just love the smell of the plant and if anyone knows anything about that plant I would love to know and planning on looking it up on the net as well. old clancey


----------



## JbTech

Dan Freeman said:


> I don't know what made me think you were in Texas! I'm on a few garden forums, and sometimes I get folk's locations confused.
> 
> That's good to know your IBC tote is in full sun until about 3, and the water stays cool enough to water after the hose gets flushed of hot water.



Sorry for any confusion. I was trying to give my experience from a similar climate.

Water from the hose this afternoon was hot, but I'd guess the water from the tank was around 65 or 70. Cool, anyhow...


----------



## Dan Freeman

JbTech said:


> Sorry for any confusion. I was trying to give my experience from a similar climate.
> 
> Water from the hose this afternoon was hot, but I'd guess the water from the tank was around 65 or 70. Cool, anyhow...


 No problem; it's just my normal confusion! I have 200 feet of black hose running down to the food forest. It seems to take forever to flush out the hot water. Hot enough to make tea! I was planning to run underground tubing down there, but that won't happen until at least next year now.


----------



## bigealta

Clancy, 
'looks terrible" Ha yeah i love the chaos, 

Muguet in french is lily of the valley, we had a bed of it here in NJ at the house i grew up in. Seems to grow like a weed if i remember correctly. In NJ.


----------



## clancey

Ha Ha---Bigealta nice to see another Jerseyite on here. I was born in Philly but went to S. Jersey--for fun and education graduating from High School there. Won a contest one time long long ago from wcau tv if I remember right and all the high school students "statewide" were ask to write a essay about what their county did for the state of N.J. and I wrote about Cape May county something about "sand dunes" on how it  contributed to the state of New Jersey. They picked one person from each state to represent their county at the worlds fair in N.Y..    Utah, N.J. I am not familiar with but I bet back then it was in the sticks..lol....I fell in love with Lily of the Valley when I saw a old old barn so tall--that had a drop from the second floor and in that drop kind of darker and damper that had that plant and it covered the whole bottom area and how wonderful it was for they were in full bloom--brought back memories. Thanks for the info...clancey


----------



## begreen

Lily of the Valley is a forest floor plant. It likes to grow in shadier areas. It would not like the heat and sun of a greenhouse. A better location would be in an amended bed against the north side of the house. 








						How to Grow Lily of the Valley
					

Lily of the valley (Convallaria majalis) is a shade-loving perennial with bell-shaped flowers that makes a good ground cover. But it can be invasive.




					www.thespruce.com


----------



## bigealta

clancey said:


> Ha Ha---Bigealta nice to see another Jerseyite on here. I was born in Philly but went to S. Jersey--for fun and education graduating from High School there. Won a contest one time long long ago from wcau tv if I remember right and all the high school students "statewide" were ask to write a essay about what their county did for the state of N.J. and I wrote about Cape May county something about "sand dunes" on how it  contributed to the state of New Jersey. They picked one person from each state to represent their county at the worlds fair in N.Y..    Utah, N.J. I am not familiar with but I bet back then it was in the sticks..lol....I fell in love with Lily of the Valley when I saw a old old barn so tall--that had a drop from the second floor and in that drop kind of darker and damper that had that plant and it covered the whole bottom area and how wonderful it was for they were in full bloom--brought back memories. Thanks for the info...clancey


Hey clancy, that's Utah the state and NJ. I'm back and forth. NJ does have some great beaches. I'm 1 mile from one here in NJ.


----------



## EbS-P

My sister just gave me a hydroponic tower garden with grow light kit.  I’m getting ready to start it up and was wondering whether you would set it up inside with the lights or outside?


----------



## clancey

That's good information begreen and what I plan to do as I learn about this plant is to put it in my wood shed which  is very open with slats on the side and not a lot of sun come comes into it "if I shade it" and I can keep it real damp and its open and gets the air flow so now maybe instead of putting a clear plastic top on it I might make some other decision now by shading it more and just fool around with it so to speak and see what happens. My tiny wood shed is on the North side facing south so I would have to shade that more at times--figuring that out at the moment..The problem in this area is the "dryness" of the climate but I have the hose right next to it. It's hard for me to do too much reading on the net because of my eyes and I use a magnifying glass. So little by little I will learn more about this plant as I progress and I plan to read your posting from the net about it when time allows.Thanks so much..Since it is a invasive plant I will keep it separate and the wood shed is higher up in height and that makes it a lot easier for me--just have to get together with the carpenter to adjust the "shed" somewhat and my mint plant will go in there too in a separate container because I think they are both invasive type of plants. I am going to grow my tomato plant in the ground as well as my lettuce plant--that's enough for me--lol.. Bigealta that was confusing and I thought it was a place called Utah Jersey--thanks for clearing that up..I will keep you all posted "on my great idea here"--lol ..Bigealta--lucky person yes those beaches are nice but I have not been in the Delaware Bay or the Ocean in a long time...Our two cottages were in a place called "Reeds Beach" many many years ago and they both got destroyed by the hurricanes in 1958 and 1959 I think...thanks everyone for your help..clancey


----------



## Dan Freeman

I got over 50 nursery pots cleaned and sterilized for next season. They will go into storage. I have about another 130 to go, plus about 50 trays.

I also got my 9 Shishito Pepper and 10 California Wonder Bell Pepper plants transplanted into bigger pots. They will stay in my greenhouse all summer. My peppers always do much better in my greenhouse than when I plant them outside. Tomorrow, I will get the eggplants into bigger pots. I keep them in the greenhouse all season, too.


----------



## bigealta

Dan Freeman said:


> I got over 50 nursery pots cleaned and sterilized for next season. They will go into storage. I have about another 130 to go, plus about 50 trays.
> 
> I also got my 9 Shishito Pepper and 10 California Wonder Bell Pepper plants transplanted into bigger pots. They will stay in my greenhouse all summer. My peppers always do much better in my greenhouse than when I plant them outside. Tomorrow, I will get the eggplants into bigger pots. I keep them in the greenhouse all season, too.
> 
> View attachment 295498


I would love to have a greenhouse like that!


----------



## Dan Freeman

bigealta said:


> I would love to have a greenhouse like that!



I've had it since 2016. I really like my greenhouse for starting seeds and growing certain plants in it all summer.


----------



## bigealta

Dan Freeman said:


> I've had it since 2016. I really like my greenhouse for starting seeds and growing certain plants in it all summer.


do u have any exterior pics of it?


----------



## Dan Freeman

bigealta said:


> do u have any exterior pics of it?


This is from when we built it back in 2016.


----------



## clancey

Just a beautiful greenhouse and well attended to--nice...clancey


----------



## Dan Freeman

Despite all the eggplant seeds I planted in 10 small 3.5" pots, I got very few viable eggplants. Today, I transferred 8 of them to larger pots. They will live their lives in the greenhouse.





So, the summer greenhouse is all set with 19 pepper plants, 5 Tiny Tim tomato plants, and 8 eggplants. All the rest of my seedlings, only flowers at this point, are sitting outside the greenhouse waiting to be planted down in the field.




That clump sitting on the milk box at the back of the greenhouse are my 4 pots of basil and 4 pots of parsley.


----------



## begreen

I may need to grow my peppers and cantaloupe in the greenhouse this year. We're having a record cold spring and the long-range forecast looks like more of the same perhaps until the end of June. In the past, this has not always worked out well due to fungus gnats and aphids, but I am going to try in big pots instead.


----------



## Dan Freeman

begreen said:


> I may need to grow my peppers and cantaloupe in the greenhouse this year. We're having a record cold spring and the long-range forecast looks like more of the same perhaps until the end of June. In the past, this has not always worked out well due to fungus gnats and aphids, but I am going to try in big pots instead.



Try these. I bought them when my indoor tomato plants got fungus gnats this past winter. Within a few days, I never saw another fungus gnat. I usually don't have a problem with fungus gnats in the greenhouse, but last year I had a problem with aphids and white flies on my greenhouse eggplants. I had to spray them with neem oil once a week. This year, I am going to use these traps. Much easier.

Amazon product


----------



## begreen

I have them, but the problem persists.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

I’m thinking about putting some yellow sticky traps near my zucchini and pumpkins to see if I can catch any squash vine borers.  I’ve seen two adults in the past couple of days.  I managed to smash the first between my hands, but I’m not fast enough to do that regularly.  I’ve been finding eggs on the stems and leaves of my plants and removing them, but I think some larvae may be inside already.  I’ve had some severely wilted leaves that I’ve removed.  I didn’t find anything in the stems, though.  The plants are still quite young and small and don’t have any flowers yet, so there are no bees visiting.  If there are already larvae in the base, they won’t make it, of course.   The plants are small enough that I don’t feel comfortable cutting into the main stem at this point.

I have some blue hubbard squash planted as a trap crop.  I’m not trying to save that.  I’ll just let them infest it and then drown them.  I do want to save the zucchini and pumpkin if I can though.  I thought that maybe the sticky traps might keep the adult from laying quite so many eggs. 

It has continued to be hot and dry down here.  I have a good number of tomatoes set on my plants from earlier in the spring (almost typed summer because that’s what it feels like, but it is only half way through May).  I think the fruit isn’t setting so much now, though, because of the high heat.

I did harvest a few Carminat Pole Beans this afternoon.  It’s not enough to make a meal, so I’ll figure out something to do with them, but I didn’t want to leave them on the plant too long while waiting for others.  I don’t know if they’ll set more beans right now.  I just checked our thermometer, and it said 97.  Thankfully the beans are on the side of the garden that gets afternoon shade earlier, so they’ll be getting out of the sun soon.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Finally got much of the garden in.   Chuck and 3 of the rabbits have gone to better places.   

I still need to work on some fencing so I can get some other beds planted.     

Made one mistake while planting.   Thought I was planting yellow squash among the tomatoes.   Looked in the pocket and found the unopened yellow squash packet.   It oh.   Shuffled all things around to find what I planted and realized it was zucchini.   Oops.    Good thing there are lots of seeds in the packet and only a couple plants go a long way.   I can’t see them doing well under the tomatoes.


----------



## begreen

Has anyone grown Beaver Dam peppers? Yes, they are a real thing. Brought to Beaver Dam, WI by a Hungarian family around 1912.  I picked some up from a local grower yesterday. She says they have a great flavor. 








						Beaver Dam Pepper Guide: Heat, Flavor, Uses
					

When you think chili peppers, Wisconsin may not be the first place that pops into your mind. But there's a hidden treasure up near the Canadian border with a very fitting name. The Beaver Dam pepper…




					www.pepperscale.com


----------



## begreen

EatenByLimestone said:


> Good thing there are lots of seeds in the packet and only a couple plants go a long way. I can’t see them doing well under the tomatoes.


Good thing you caught it right away. We only grow two zucchini plants now. Any more and we would be slipping them on people's doorsteps at night.


----------



## Dan Freeman

begreen said:


> Good thing you caught it right away. We only grow two zucchini plants now. Any more and we would be slipping them on people's doorsteps at night.


I stopped growing zucchini a few years back. Even my chickens began to hide when they saw me coming with another one! LOL


----------



## DuaeGuttae

I think I may have to start over with my attempts at zucchini or just abandon the attempt entirely.  The vine borer pressure is just so great down here, and I am not winning any of my battles against them.   I saw more damage when I was putting up yellow sticky strips around the stalks today.

I had hoped to have my husband help me put bird netting over our peach tree yesterday evening to protect the ripening fruit from squirrels.  We both noticed as we walked by yesterday that there were peach pits on our walkway.  The peaches weren’t completely ripe, but they were well on their way, so plans changed.  Instead of trying to protect them outside, my oldest child and I harvested them all and brought them inside to finish ripening.




The small basket in front contained the peaches that were in some way damaged.  The other two baskets were the unharmed peaches.  I just spread them out so that they wouldn’t be piled too high.

The peaches are really small.  The tree itself is pretty small after sustaining major damage during the freeze of February 2021.  This year it was also in full bloom when the temperatures dropped to 28 degrees, so I wasn’t really expecting anything of a crop.  I was surprised and delighted when it set fruit, but I didn’t really pay attention to the fact that it was a fairly heavy crop.  I should have thinned and didn’t.  Between the heavy crop and the drought, the peaches are really small (and sort of a pain to process because they’re clingstone).  Most of them need more time to ripen, but we’ve enjoyed eating a few, and I used the damaged ones tonight to make a quart of peach ice cream.  It was a delicious treat at the end of another hot day.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> Has anyone grown Beaver Dam peppers? Yes, they are a real thing. Brought to Beaver Dam, WI by a Hungarian family around 1912.  I picked some up from a local grower yesterday. She says they have a great flavor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beaver Dam Pepper Guide: Heat, Flavor, Uses
> 
> 
> When you think chili peppers, Wisconsin may not be the first place that pops into your mind. But there's a hidden treasure up near the Canadian border with a very fitting name. The Beaver Dam pepper…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pepperscale.com



Those look really interesting, Begreen.  My father-in-law spent his childhood in Hungary and used to cook some excellent Hungarian dishes.  My children like exploring a Hungarian cookbook that we have (written in English, or we’d be hopeless) and making some traditional dishes.


----------



## Dan Freeman

I got all the fruit trees, fruit bushes, and fruit vines fertilized today with a new fertilizer I bought. Kellogg Organic Fruit Tree Fertilizer. (https://www.homedepot.com/p/Ke...)

I also got two small, raised garden beds down into the field. They are 3 x 2. I have 4 - 3 x 6 raised garden beds I want to make into 6 - 3 x 3 raised garden beds by cutting one of them in half and "sacrificing" it to make the 4th side of the ones I cut in half. I'm going to plant annual and perennial flowers in them down there.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Partial rhubarb harvest tonight.   Need to deliver 2 bags to friends.    I knew the wife was not looking forward to processing when she started calling people to find out if they wanted some, lol.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Well, a prime example of why my wife has low expectations.   She decides to make strawberry rhubarb pie, because she bought a lot of strawberries last night and I decided to horrify her with a surprise rhubarb harvest.   We have all of the ingredients except flour and pie crusts.  I get sent to the store.  I bought the wrong pie crusts, and chose the “good stuff” flower… I guess we normally buy the cheap stuff?   Anyway, she’s off buying the right pie crusts, lol.   And told me now she’ll have to make cheesecake since that’s the crust I bought.   I thought a graham  cracker crust would make a great pie.    

Well, good thing I like cheesecake!  

*Always look on the briiiight side of life!* (whistling now)


----------



## Dan Freeman

Today, I filled 2 - 2 x 3 raised beds with soil and 1 - 4x4 raised bed with soil down in the food forest. I filled them with flowers: Forget-Me-Nots, Zinnias, Marigolds, Yellow Fern Yarrow, Black Eyed Susans, Shasta Daisies, and a few sunflower seeds.

I started dismantling the 3 x 6 raised beds in the backyard. I am going to make a bunch of 3 x 3 raised beds from them to scatter around the food forest with flowers to attract pollinators.

You can see the raised beds I removed in the foreground of this picture. The 2 in the left foreground have garlic in them, so I can't move them until late summer.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

I started planting flower seeds also. Hopefully they come up nicely.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

Dan Freeman said:


> Today, I filled 2 - 2 x 3 raised beds with soil and 1 - 4x4 raised bed with soil down in the food forest. I filled them with flowers: Forget-Me-Nots, Zinnias, Marigolds, Yellow Fern Yarrow, Black Eyed Susans, Shasta Daisies, and a few sunflower seeds.
> 
> I started dismantling the 3 x 6 raised beds in the backyard. I am going to make a bunch of 3 x 3 raised beds from them to scatter around the food forest with flowers to attract pollinators.
> 
> You can see the raised beds I removed in the foreground of this picture. The 2 in the left foreground have garlic in them, so I can't move them until late summer.
> 
> View attachment 295563



Were the beds not well enough protected outside of the food forest?  Are you trying to get everything together for the ease of watering?  What are your plans for the space those beds will be vacating?



It has continued to be hot and dry here.  We hit 100 degrees today with lots of sunshine. (Those are hot July temperatures, not the normal May.)  I filled all the ollas in the garden and gave the plants some surface water.  There may be a cooler front pushing down this weekend, so we might have some relief if temps get down to the eighties for highs.

I have a couple varieties of cherry tomatoes that are starting to show hints of color change on the early fruits, and there are some larger-fruited varieties that haven’t set any fruit yet at all.   Even heat lovers have their limits.


----------



## Dan Freeman

DuaeGuttae said:


> Were the beds not well enough protected outside of the food forest?  Are you trying to get everything together for the ease of watering?  What are your plans for the space those beds will be vacating?



No, they were protected in our backyard area by a fence, and we have been growing in them for a few years now. We just decided to move all our raised beds down into the food forest and grow our annual vegetables down there, too. The level part of our backyard is on the small side before it begins to slope downhill (just beyond those beds). A large part of the level area is taken up by our greenhouse, chicken coop/run, raised pond, a tool shed and a garden shed. I would like to be able to have more area to plant flowers in the backyard and have a nice seating area. We will also now have all of our food-growing efforts within the food forest.

Hope the temperatures come down somewhat for you. You folks have been having unseasonable hot temps and less rain. I feel sorry for those trying to garden in the south and southwest. This has been a tough season already.


----------



## Dan Freeman

We scored another 20 cubic yards of wood chips from a guy who has done tree work for us from time to time.  I told him we could use another 3-4 truck loads. I would like to get the rest of the food forest covered with chips before the end of this growing season. Right now, it is only about 1/2 covered, and about 1/3 of that we have to recover since we used builder's paper instead of cardboard when we started. The builders paper disintegrated, and a lot of grass grew through the chips. Now we put down a double layer of corrugated cardboard before laying chips.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

I just read an article naming rhubarb as the next superfood.   


Am I wrong in thinking that eating a quarter of that pie is a good breakfast?  It has strawberries too!  Lol

If not, than my backup excuse is I’m doing my part to get leftovers out of the refrigerator.


----------



## Dan Freeman

EatenByLimestone said:


> I just read an article naming rhubarb as the next superfood.
> 
> 
> Am I wrong in thinking that eating a quarter of that pie is a good breakfast?  It has strawberries too!  Lol
> 
> If not, than my backup excuse is I’m doing my part to get leftovers out of the refrigerator.


----------



## Dan Freeman

Today was wet and overcast until about 3pm, but we got a ton of work done.

I finally finished the 2nd 7 x 7 bamboo trellis and installed it in the pergola.





I also put together a cedar raised garden bed that I bought last year and never used. I filled it and planted some purple cone flowers, yellow fern yarrow, and black eyed susans in it. The cone flowers were taken from another garden. They got a bit droopy, but they are looking better now.





We got the netting on the trellis area for the cucumbers, acorn and butternut squash, cantaloupes, and Lincoln peas.





We put another layer on our new asparagus. 15 of 20 plants came up so far.





And, we added some soil to the 3 beds of potatoes. Here's one.





The rest of these pictures are just some random shots of the food forest.

More flowers for the pollinators.





A view from the southeast corner





A view from the southwest corner





The windmill we recently installed





A view from the northwest corner





A view from up in the backyard





Onions





Some of the young fruit trees





Our Concord Grape vine





Bush Beans (Contender and Blue Lake) and Snappy Peas





One of the 4 tomato beds





Detroit Beets and Purple Top Turnips





Two more raised flower gardens and the bird bath


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## EatenByLimestone

You do so much work on your garden!  I’m jealous!

I’m up to about 1/3rd planted.   I’m getting there slowly.

The pie is gone.   As a new superfood, I ate it for lunch too.   

We’re cooking up some Good King Henry tonight for the 1st time.   The raw leaf tastes like spinach at first, but has a bit of an after taste that’s bitter.  Maybe like gay lan, I bet I spelled that wrong.  It’s been growing for a few years.   Hopefully it’ll become a favorite.  Supposedly it gets more bitter as the season progresses, so maybe I need to start earlier.


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## DuaeGuttae

@EatenByLimestone , we have pie for breakfast on occasion.  We don’t have pie often, but when I do make a pie or cheesecake or crisp dessert, we cut it into twelve servings.  We have a family of six, so everybody gets one piece for dessert, and then we save the rest for breakfast the next morning.  It would be a rare event for any to be leftover long enough for lunch.  Especially something like pumpkin pie or goat cheese cake that has lots of eggs, I consider an excellent breakfast food.  Rhubarb would go in that category, too, because of the fiber.

I had to do an emergency watering on one of my rhubarb plants this evening.  I think it gets more shade than the other plant, but some of the really hot afternoon sun gets to it when the sun has moved down the horizon.  It was wilted tonight even after the sun was off of it, and I could see burned spots on the leaves.  I hope it can hold on until we cool down to the eighties next week.  I’m not sure that I can even grow perennial rhubarb down here, but I’m giving it a try.  If it fails, I’ll just grow it as an annual from now on.

@Dan Freeman, your food forest is really looking great.   I’ll look forward to seeing more pictures when your pergola is covered in vines, and your flowers are blooming.


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## EatenByLimestone

I wonder if it would do better if it was planted behind something that would give it shade?   Maybe tomatoes?  A trellis of pole beans?


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## Dan Freeman

Do you hugel?

I have a bunch of 3- and 4-foot logs from when I cut down the 4 poplar trees that were in the field where we are making the food forest. I piled them on the edge of the property, and I need to move them, so I decided to create a hugel mound which I will start using next year to plant strawberries, and maybe other things as well.

If you are not familiar, Hugelkultur (German), pronounced _Hoo-gul-culture_, means hill culture or hill mound. They are no-dig raised beds with a difference. They hold moisture, build fertility, maximize surface volume and are great spaces for growing fruit, vegetables and herbs.

It is a mound of logs, branches, leaves, grass clippings, manure, compost or whatever other biomass you have available and topped with soil.

Here is an article if you want to read further: https://www.permaculture.co.uk/articles/many-benefits-hugelkultur

While you can use all kinds of materials to build a hugel mound, here is a cross-section picture of one using mainly logs.




I don't think I will go that big, just a few feet tall and much narrower so I can easily reach everything without having to build a scaffold. LOL.  Maybe 6-8' long, 3 or 4' wide, and 3-4' high.


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## begreen

I tried hugelkultur in a bed but wasn't impressed. There was no improvement in that bed. After 3 yrs. I dug up the wood. It had not started to decay much. Perhaps it would be better to use something like alder that breaks down more quickly. I have a friend that loves to compost and is doing a long-term hugel experiment. She started it 2 yrs ago. I will wait and see her results. She is constantly experimenting with making compost with all sorts of methods.


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## Dan Freeman

begreen said:


> I tried hugelkultur in a bed but wasn't impressed. There was no improvement in that bed. After 3 yrs. I dug up the wood. It had not started to decay much. Perhaps it would be better to use something like alder that breaks down more quickly. I have a friend that loves to compost and is doing a long-term hugel experiment. She started it 2 yrs ago. I will wait and see her results. She is constantly experimenting with making compost with all sorts of methods.



Then you must have been doing something wrong or didn't give it enough of a chance if you weren't impressed. You should check out the PERMIES online forum. (https://permies.com/forums) You can learn a lot about permaculture in that forum, one topic being hugelkultur. Paul Wheaton, the owner of the forum, is one of the foremost permaculture experts in the United States. He lectures all over and has written books and made many videos. I have learned so much from that forum. It takes "gardening" to a whole different level. Not gardening like most people think, the year-in, year-out garden, but long-term, sustainable food growth.


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## Dan Freeman

Today, I got the 4 - 3 x 6 raised beds from the backyard converted into 6 - 3 x 3 raised beds and put them down in the food forest. I had to "sacrifice" one of the beds to make sides for the other 3 when I cut them in half. I want to fill them with pollinators and Yellow Fern Yarrow since the latter attracts lacewings which are carnivorous insects that eat a lot of the insects that will feed on fruit plants.

Before (the "sacrificed" one is leaning against the shed)



After (I had already moved one down to the FF before I took this pic)


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## begreen

Dan Freeman said:


> Then you must have been doing something wrong or didn't give it enough of a chance if you weren't impressed. You should check out the PERMIES online forum. (https://permies.com/forums) You can learn a lot about permaculture in that forum, one topic being hugelkultur. Paul Wheaton, the owner of the forum, is one of the foremost permaculture experts in the United States. He lectures all over and has written books and made many videos. I have learned so much from that forum. It takes "gardening" to a whole different level. Not gardening like most people think, the year-in, year-out garden, but long-term, sustainable food growth.


I think the issue may be that this process is not appropriate for raised beds that are isolated from ground soil. There probably were not the microorganisms and mycorrhiza needed to make it work. Our raised blueberry bed which is covered with wood chips on the other hand sprouts mushrooms annually. This year, the ex-hugel bed got amended with llama poo. It appears to be doing better, at least with the lettuce and peas planted there.


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## Dan Freeman

begreen said:


> I think the issue may be that this process is not appropriate for raised beds that are isolated from ground soil. There probably were not the microorganisms and mycorrhiza needed to make it work. Our raised blueberry bed which is covered with wood chips on the other hand sprouts mushrooms annually. This year, the ex-hugel bed got amended with llama poo. It appears to be doing better, at least with the lettuce and peas planted there.



Oh, I agree with you! If you are isolated from ground soil, you would definitely not benefit from hugel mounds. Not only the microorganisms and mycorrhizal fungi, but the wicking effect from the ground moisture which helps to break down any logs, branches, etc. used in the hugel mound much faster by increasing all these friendly organisms and fungi.

When making hugel mounds, a lot of folks will actually dig a pit area first, cut the biggest logs and stand them on end (vertically rather than horizontally) to assist in the wicking of moisture to the rest of the mound. This speeds up the decomposition and nutrient release.


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## DuaeGuttae

I do take what I call a “mini-hugelkultur” approach to my raised beds and even to my pots.  When we moved in here, we discovered that the next door neighbors had cut and piled a bunch of wood under trees and once upon a time covered with a tarp.  It was actually our wood on our land (but the neighbors had an arrangement with the previous owners where they used it).  It was pretty rotten, so every time we add a garden bed, we go over to that strip of land and gather rotten wood and soil from underneath the trees there.  The only problem with that approach is that there are tiny fragments of tarp all mixed in, so we’re constantly pulling those out.




Here’s a shot of part of our process last summer when we got the raised beds from the new neighbors.  We had lots of dead oleander and palm fronds after the major freeze.  We started with oleander branches, weighed those down with rotten wood and soil, then added in shredded palm fronds.  We covered that with half finished compost from our tumblers and then whatever nitrogen we could get.  We had some grass clippings, but we also pulled up pokeweed and other large weeds and shredded corn stalks to add.  Only after that did we finish off with purchased compost.  We grew sunn hemp and cowpeas last summer as a green manure, but we’ll need to add more purchased compost this spring after we harvest the onions.

I’ve had a raccoon or something getting into my garden this week.  My neighbors are busy trapping armadillos with the traps we often borrow, so I went out and bought my own set of traps to see if I can catch it.  This morning the digging was pretty widespread and had torn up a bunch of my potatoes.  We think it’s a coon because it must be climbing to get in the garden, and there is digging in pots and planters where armadillos couldn’t climb. 




Here’s what I found dug up this morning.

My husband just got home from the store with marshmallows.  I need to head outside to set the traps.


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## Dan Freeman

Great idea with those raised beds!

Sorry to hear about the marauding coon. The neighbor who lived next door when we first bought our house 27 years ago used to feed all the wildlife. One of the things she used to put out for the raccoons was marshmallows. They loved them! They have a real sweet tooth.


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## Dan Freeman

Every Saturday morning, I get an email from Joe Lampl' (Joe Gardener) with his latest article and podcast, usually featuring a guest. This week's is all about native bees. I found it quite interesting, so I thought I would share it here:

One thing I learned right off the bat is that honeybees are not native to North America, (I never knew that) and there are about 4000 native bee species in the United States.

All About Native Bees, with Heather Holm








						All About Native Bees, with Heather Holm | joegardener®
					

The 4,000 or so native bee species in the United States behave much differently than honeybee colonies and are generally not well understood.




					joegardener.com


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## begreen

Yes, they are a domesticated species.  I learned that a couple of decades ago from a local orchardist. I was keeping honey bees at the time. He was part native Nisqually Indian and told me that when he stopped keeping bees he noticed after a year that there were no issues with the pollination of his hundreds of trees. He observed many native bees replacing them. After that, he refused to keep bees. I think there are over 20,000 native bee species globally, plus many flies and some birds that also act as pollinators.

Unfortunately, the majority of domesticated bees are used for pollination in areas of heavy herbicides and pesticide usage. The poor things are brought in to pollinate between spraying when the plants are in flower. Then they get packed up and moved to the next site. These orchards and fields are insect deserts. And in turn, nothing else in the wild food chain exists there either. When they talk about the die-off of bees, it's a man-made problem.


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## Dan Freeman

I went outside to work, and it was just so hot and humid, I decided to take it easier today. So, I built a bee hotel and mounted it down in the food forest.





It's amazing, this little hotel took 18.5 - 7' bamboo poles cut into 7.25" pieces. That is more than one the 7' x 7' trellises I built for the pergola! There are @200 bamboo tubes in this bee hotel.

Spent the rest of the early afternoon cleaning 120 - 3.5 nursery pots which are now put away for next Spring.

Tomorrow, I plan to do one of the jobs I hate most...cleaning the raised pond filter. (You can see the raised pond in the first pic above.) I only do it once a year. It is disgusting to do.


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## begreen

That's a spiffy bee hotel. Ours is more utilitarian. We raise mason bees for a local beekeeper. Our gals are almost done now. They've been very busy.  By mid-June they usually die off. In your bee hotel you may see leaf-cutter bees filling it with cocoons in the summer. Be sure to keep some wetted clay soil nearby for them to use for sealing in the cocoons.


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## Dan Freeman

begreen said:


> That's a spiffy bee hotel. Ours is more utilitarian. We raise mason bees for a local beekeeper. Our gals are almost done now. They've been very busy.  By mid-June they usually die off. In your bee hotel you may see leaf-cutter bees filling it with cocoons in the summer. Be sure to keep some wetted clay soil nearby for them to use for sealing in the cocoons.
> 
> View attachment 295674
> View attachment 295677


Wish I had built it earlier. I'm probably late to the game with it for this year.


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## begreen

Mason bees have a short season. They are active as soon as daytime temps are over 50º. Keep an eye on it this summer. You may see leafcutter bees filling some of the smaller tubes. One thing to consider is adding a small porch at the bottom. As young bees emerge, they often will hang out on the porch as they warm up in the morning sun. Also, the front should face south for best sun exposure.


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## Dan Freeman

Thanks for the tips. I will add the porch. That should be an easy add-on.


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## Dan Freeman

Well, I got the pond filter cleaned today. It took me about 2 hours. I can't figure out what activity I like less: cleaning the pond filter; getting root canal; or prepping for a colonoscopy! 

Up potted my Tiny Tims to their terminal 9" pots. Have tomatoes on every one of them already. I also saw tomatoes on my Early Treats and Early Girls today. My Shishito Peppers are setting blooms. Can't wait. They are my favorite peppers.


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## DuaeGuttae

We love Shishito peppers here, too.  Ours have been in the garden for a while now, and I’m excited that I have little peppers growing on them despite the crazy heat we’ve been having.  Thankfully this week will be cooler.

We had the possibility of strong storms last night.  Unfortunately the rain missed us despite a couple hours of very nearby thunder and lightning.  We still have more chances for the next couple of days, though, and the front blew in some much cooler weather.  Highs are supposed to be in the low eighties, average for this time of year, instead of temperatures fifteen to twenty degrees above average.  It was positively delightful to be outside early this morning, and I opened up the house and used a window exhaust fan to help get rid of the heat in here.  

We took the opportunity yesterday morning to harvest our Texas Legend onions.  There were a number of small ones and not really any huge ones, but they taste good and we have more onions to come in three more beds.  These rickety sawhorses were on the property when we moved here, and they won’t hold up heavy loads, but they made a great support for curing onions.  This is under a lean-to of sorts on our barn,  so it’s sheltered from the sun but gets good airflow.


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## DuaeGuttae

We had our first tomato harvest yesterday, and we had a taste test of the five ripest ones today while I was making our salad for lunch.  Yummy!  These are all small tomatoes from Artisan Seeds.  The largest was a new one for us, Taste Patio. It was only about an ounce and a half, but my two plants are loaded with lovely, mostly oval fruit.  The elongated cherries are Maglia Rosa, and the round cherries were supposed to be Madera, a brownish red sweet hybrid with green shoulders, according to what I thought I seeded and transplanted, but they are not.  I’m not sure what they are, perhaps Sunrise Bumblebee, though they didn’t start out as yellow as I would have expected for that.  Whatever they are, they were tasty, so that’s good news.  Madera is a hybrid we tried for the first time last year, and we liked it better than Sweet Million (though it did crack a bit more), so I’m going to have to see if I can root a sucker off my other plant in order to have more this season.

I don’t have any edible lettuce in the garden unfortunately, but my cucumbers are beginning to flower well.  I may even have seen one swelling fruit earlier today.  I have some peppers setting as well, so I hope we’ll be enjoying more fresh vegetables soon.

Roasted new potatoes that were harvested because of the garden digger are just finishing up in the oven now.


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## Dan Freeman

Today, I thinned the Detroit Red Beets and the American Purple Top Turnips. Got all the suckers removed from my tomatoes and supported them up another level. Lots of small tomatoes already. I planted more green onion seeds (scallions) in the tomato beds and put in a bunch of dill seeds. The afternoon was "tall grass" cutting in the back of the field behind the food forest. I have a bunch of white pines and barberry bushes that have sprung up in this area over the past few years. I am going to have to do another "cleaning" of that area this summer.


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## EatenByLimestone

Barberry is a miserable plant.   I hate having to work around them.


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## Dan Freeman

EatenByLimestone said:


> Barberry is a miserable plant.   I hate having to work around them.


It seems that any area on my property I clear, barberry bushes just pop up. I am always cutting them down and taking them out. I try to get small ones I see with the lawn mower, but they grow so fast.


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## EatenByLimestone

I’d be real tempted to have a spray bottle of 2-4, D with me if it’s that bad.   That’s one of the last plants I’d want to get out of control.  Something that gives phytophoto dermatitis would be worse.


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## EatenByLimestone

I fenced in a new area last night and got all but 3 tomato plants in the ground.   I'll plant them at the cabin.   

I have some pepper plants left and some squash to go in that bed.   

Then onto the last bed.    

Getting  it all in is tough this year.


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## EatenByLimestone

Mrs Clancy, how are you making out way over in Colorado?


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## Dan Freeman

Especially when you have a regular job! I remember those days of working in the garden after a long day's work. Now that we are retired, except for our home business, we're able to work almost every day the weather allows, get more done, and not feel the "garden pressure" as much. Hang in there.


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## clancey

You all are doing just wonderful trying to stay ahead of the work--which is good for it makes one feel more secure.. I love those "bee homes" and what a good idea.  I would hate to clean that water holder as well.. lol  Everything looks really nice...I think its not working full time in another job as much as it is "ones stamina", especially if we  try to keep things as simple as possible.. If things go well you people are going to have some really tasty and nutritious food--yes,,,My three plants are doing well but not in the ground as of yet for we had some snow and cold weather. I have been making a salad or two out of my lettuce---okay but has a slight bitter taste to it and I rather eat store bought lettuce for now...but I mix it in--lol.. I have had some set backs and right now behind with my work in all areas so I need to just catch up as I  can but I have been reading this delightful thread "everyday" and trying to keep up on my research as well...Thanks for asking Lime and I am doing just fine for now...clancey


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## Dan Freeman

Good to hear from you, Mrs. Clancy. Stamina! I remember when we moved to this property 27 years ago, we used to put in 8-hour days working outside on weekends and days off. Now, I am happy if I can do 3 hours, sometimes 4 depending on the task (with many breaks), and I pay for it dearly with various aches, pains and ailments, but I still love it. I (we all) will garden as long as we can and in whatever capacity we are able. I hope when they find me dead someday (but not too soon!), they find me in my garden.

I watched this short video this morning and thought it might be of interest to some. From what I have read, I thought we had a honeybee problem here in the US, but this video would suggest we have a native bee problem. I found the video enlightening.

*Bee extinction: Why we're saving the wrong bees
*


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## EatenByLimestone

Yeah, there are definitely issues with too many, and the wrong ones being killed.    The one that bothers me the most, what I miss the most, is fireflies.   I used to run around catching them all summer long as a kid.  Then we’d sit and watch the jar flash.   Now, in the suburbs, I don’t see many.   When I escape civilization they’re still all around.


I watch the pesticide industry closely.   We’re headed toward them not being available to homeowners.   Licensed professionals will have a lot more restrictions too.    Overall, a good thing.   A lot of the resistance issues we see are due to bad applications made by homeowner and professional alike.   I’m all for more education and licensing with pesticides.   

The bad thing, is the success of the industry has bread an awful lot of people who freak out when they see an ant in the yard or a bee fly past a flowering bush.


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## Dan Freeman

I still see the fireflies here in the country, but not a s many as when I first moved here 27 years ago.

Don't get me started on pesticides. We are killing nature, and as a result, killing ourselves. Our agricultural industry is doing everything against nature and nurture.

Yes, people freak out about bugs, but those bugs are a crucial part of complete cycle. Ashame people don't understand, know, or bother to learn.

We finally got the rest of the perennial flowers planted down in the food forest today (about 36 plants). So glad to have them out of their 2-gallon pots on the walkway in front of the greenhouse. Now, I can get the pots cleaned for next season. That makes about 72 perennial flowers down there (yellow fern yarrow, black eyed susans, Shasta daisies, and forget-me-nots...in addition to about 48 annual flowers). Also finally got carrot seeds planted. It takes over an hour to water all the raised beds. If I water them and all the fruit trees/bushes/vines, it takes almost 2 hours. Have to figure out something more efficient.


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## Dan Freeman

Today was one of those days where I got a lot of little things done. 

My Chicago Hardy Fig tree in the backyard that was 6 feet tall died all the way back to the ground this winter, so I cut it down, but I have a ton of shoots coming up. We have wrapped it in burlap and stuffed it with straw a few winters. While some of it survives, we never get the early crop of figs, just the late one, and even they tend to be small. We are right on the border of the growing zone for Chicago Hardy. I figured this is "do or die" time for this fig. I added some good compost and wood chips. If it doesn't do better within the next year or two, it will be history!

I cut down a huge deep purple French Lilac that was consuming the corner of one of my sheds. I love the lilacs, but it was time to take it down. I did leave a few pieces further out from the shed, and I will remove the roots of it that grow closest to this shed.

The shed front had a ton of green mold since it faces North and never sees the sun. So, I got out my bucket and brush, mixed some bleach and Mr. Clean, and now the front of the shed looks nice and white again. 

I have one of those Green Dragon Propane torches (weed burner). I went through the slate path from the back stairs to the greenhouse and on to one of the sheds and burned all the weeds growing between the slates and on the sides.

Some days it's just "maintenance" that keeps you busy all day.


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## begreen

Asparagus is in full swing. Here is another load of old-growth asparagus heading for the kitchen.


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## Dan Freeman

Darn, those are big asparagus!


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## DuaeGuttae

When we first moved to Texas, we kept noticing what looked like giant asparagus stalks as we drove around.  We finally figured out that it was a flower stalk from the agave plant that folks use in landscaping around here.  It’s actually related to asparagus, but it was so strange to move down here and see the huge stalks that looked just like garden asparagus.









						Century Plant Almost Two Stories High Is About To Flower in Texas
					

Century plants are common throughout Texas, although it is rare for them to grow to the impressive proportions that one example in a backyard in Houston has reached.




					www.newsweek.com


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## EatenByLimestone

Even the asparagus is bigger in TX!


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## begreen

Cool weather persists here and I still don't have the heat lover crops in the ground. This is the latest for us in over a decade. Meanwhile, we have been dealing with deer break-ins since last Wed. Each day we repair another section of the 1000'+ of fencing where we "think" they bust in, but then the next morning we see them munching away on the berry leaves. Typically, it's a mother and one or two fawns. Getting the mother out is not too hard as long as she doesn't panic, but getting fawns out over a hillside acre is not fun.  My knees can't take much more running up and downhill after them. Yesterday, we fixed what we think may have been their entrance. It was down low and behind a large blackberry. Fingers crossed. We've lost a couple of broccoli, several tomatoes, some strawberry plants, and raspberry leaves to these long-legged rats. Hopefully, some of these plants will recover.


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## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> Cool weather persists here and I still don't have the heat lover crops in the ground. This is the latest for us in over a decade. Meanwhile, we have been dealing with deer break-ins since last Wed. Each day we repair another section of the 1000'+ of fencing where we "think" they bust in, but then the next morning we see them munching away on the berry leaves. Typically, it's a mother and one or two fawns. Getting the mother out is not too hard as long as she doesn't panic, but getting fawns out over a hillside acre is not fun.  My knees can't take much more running up and downhill after them. Yesterday, we fixed what we think may have been their entrance. It was down low and behind a large blackberry. Fingers crossed. We've lost a couple of broccoli, several tomatoes, some strawberry plants, and raspberry leaves to these long-legged rats. Hopefully, some of these plants will recover.



Begreen, I sure hope that was the spot so that you don’t have any more deer in the garden.  We’ve been having baby armadillos and a skunk.  Ever since we trapped the skunk, we haven’t had any more potatoes dug up.  The baby armadillos were small enough and strong enough to push their way through the 2 x 3 openings we have at the bottom of our fence in the new garden (it’s the fencing that came with the free beds), but I don’t think they could actually get up into the beds in that garden.  Unfortunately, they or their mother (whom we’ve not seen) had also managed to burrow a new hole under our shed where I had recently moved a rock, and I guess it gave them an opportunity to dig.  Just yesterday when my husband could help, we finally pulled the wooden walkway off the other side of the shed and attached fencing wire/hardware cloth to the bottom of the shed and buried it going down and out.  It was a hard hot job, and I had to stop pounding fencing staples when my wrist started burning, but we did get the whole side finished, and it’s a 26 foot shed with another ten foot “annex” behind it.  It was a lot of work on a hot day.  We have rocks blocking the other side, but we plan in the future to pull those away and put hardware cloth underneath as well.

We’re having so much heat down here that it makes for an exhausting and at times discouraging garden season.  I think we’re going to try to put up our shade cloth to see if that helps because I have tomatoes dropping their blooms, others getting blossom end rot, and my pole beans just aren’t setting pods. I’m watering diligently, but the plants still get stressed when it’s 98 degrees with intense sun.

On a different note, my okra plants are growing, and I’ve just started some corn seeds.  I haven’t put in most of the corn, though, or my sweet potatoes, because I still have onions in those beds.  It’s later than I expected it to be, but my long season gives me time.  The sweet potato slips are trying to take over a good portion of my deck, though, and I’m needing to water them a lot since they’re not in the ground yet.

Despite my not having as good of results with the garden as I would like, there are still some successes.  We have a few tomato plants that are putting off some nice fruit.  “Taste Patio” is bearing nice egg-sized tomatoes for us, and they have good flavor. We are really pleased with this variety.   We also picked our first small cucumber and a handful of Shishito peppers in order to add to a lettuce salad for last night’s dinner.  The lettuce is from the store because it’s too hot here for it.



I am going to give a try to growing a pot of lettuce indoors again this summer.  I have a wooden plant cart that was given to me a few years ago when my master gardener neighbor moved away.  I’ve used it often for seedlings, and my planter of ginger lived on it all winter.  I’ve long wanted to waterproof the top in some way in order to have more freedom with what I put on it, and I recently found an extra large boot try that fits on top perfectly.  I think I’m going to try to start more za’atar inside as well as some lettuce and maybe even a zucchini (to try to get a head start on the vine borers).  



I somehow couldn’t capture all the flowers on this plant in the photo, but I have a couple of Balsam Impatiens that I grew from seed and put in pots on our front porch.  They’ve branched out nicely and are flowering along those branches, and I’m very pleased.   Little things like that can be very cheering.


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## Dan Freeman

We had a busy day...

We pruned all of the fruit trees, and we finished planting the rest of the berry bushes.

With the fruit trees/ berry bushes/vines, perennial and annual vegetables, and perennial and annual flowers, this is what we have now planted in the food forest...1 year and 6 days since we started it.




Thought I would throw in a picture of our garlic which is growing in the backyard. Once we harvest it in late July, we'll move these two raised beds down to the FF.




A couple of pics taken this afternoon as we finished today's work in the FF.





Peppers, eggplants and Tiny Tim Tomatoes doing well in the greenhouse.


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## begreen

DuaeGuttae said:


> Begreen, I sure hope that was the spot so that you don’t have any more deer in the garden.  We’ve been having baby armadillos and a skunk.  Ever since we trapped the skunk, we haven’t had any more potatoes dug up.  The baby armadillos were small enough and strong enough to push their way through the 2 x 3 openings we have at the bottom of our fence in the new garden (it’s the fencing that came with the free beds), but I don’t think they could actually get up into the beds in that garden.  Unfortunately, they or their mother (whom we’ve not seen) had also managed to burrow a new hole under our shed where I had recently moved a rock, and I guess it gave them an opportunity to dig.  Just yesterday when my husband could help, we finally pulled the wooden walkway off the other side of the shed and attached fencing wire/hardware cloth to the bottom of the shed and buried it going down and out.  It was a hard hot job, and I had to stop pounding fencing staples when my wrist started burning, but we did get the whole side finished, and it’s a 26 foot shed with another ten foot “annex” behind it.  It was a lot of work on a hot day.  We have rocks blocking the other side, but we plan in the future to pull those away and put hardware cloth underneath as well.
> 
> We’re having so much heat down here that it makes for an exhausting and at times discouraging garden season.  I think we’re going to try to put up our shade cloth to see if that helps because I have tomatoes dropping their blooms, others getting blossom end rot, and my pole beans just aren’t setting pods. I’m watering diligently, but the plants still get stressed when it’s 98 degrees with intense sun.
> 
> On a different note, my okra plants are growing, and I’ve just started some corn seeds.  I haven’t put in most of the corn, though, or my sweet potatoes, because I still have onions in those beds.  It’s later than I expected it to be, but my long season gives me time.  The sweet potato slips are trying to take over a good portion of my deck, though, and I’m needing to water them a lot since they’re not in the ground yet.
> 
> Despite my not having as good of results with the garden as I would like, there are still some successes.  We have a few tomato plants that are putting off some nice fruit.  “Taste Patio” is bearing nice egg-sized tomatoes for us, and they have good flavor. We are really pleased with this variety.   We also picked our first small cucumber and a handful of Shishito peppers in order to add to a lettuce salad for last night’s dinner.  The lettuce is from the store because it’s too hot here for it.
> View attachment 295872
> 
> 
> I am going to give a try to growing a pot of lettuce indoors again this summer.  I have a wooden plant cart that was given to me a few years ago when my master gardener neighbor moved away.  I’ve used it often for seedlings, and my planter of ginger lived on it all winter.  I’ve long wanted to waterproof the top in some way in order to have more freedom with what I put on it, and I recently found an extra large boot try that fits on top perfectly.  I think I’m going to try to start more za’atar inside as well as some lettuce and maybe even a zucchini (to try to get a head start on the vine borers).


Yes, we each have our challenges. The deer have been kept out now for 2 days. Fingers crossed, we have them kept outside for the rest of the season now.  I remember your critter wars last year. It's always something it seems.
Shade cloth really works. I would definitely try that. In the opposite direction, I just ordered some UV resistant, 6 mil greenhouse plastic to put over our heat lovers. Remay works, but it blocks a lot of light.
Good idea on growing the lettuce inside. Our only problem when we grow it inside is that the leaves are quite delicate. One has to be more careful when washing and drying them. Still, homegrown is better than store-bought.


----------



## Dan Freeman

So, you all know we used to have this large 8x10 chicken coop and 10x16 run that we built in 2013 for 16 chickens.




We used to lock them up at night, and we had "poop trays" under their roost. We used to get a lot of good chicken poop for the gardens.

Eventually, we turned this chicken coop/run into a garden shed/garden area and didn't have chickens for a few years.

Then, in 2020, we built a much smaller 8x8 run with a small coop incorporated inside.




We got 3 chickens. However, they don't sleep in the coop. They only go in there to lay eggs. Year round, they sleep on the outside roosting bar.

Collecting chicken poop is harder now with the coop, two hanging buckets, a plank up to their coop, and their roosting board. If not careful, it's easy to get injured, covered with poop, or easily frustrated.

So, today, I started on a new project I am calling the "compost factory". It is an "add on" to the back of the run, elevated off the ground, and accessible to the chickens. It will have front doors where we can load in leaves, grass clipping, food scraps, etc. The chickens will "work it" leaving that wonderful poop in it, and the compost will fall down into the old poop pans on the ground where we can more easily collect it, and compost it while it is still "hot". I think this will make collecting good chicken-poop-inoculated-compost much easier for us.

I got most of the framing built today. I still have to build the doors, put the roof on, and attach the wire.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

I can’t remember his name, the Back to Eden guy, just shovels the compost from the yard in front of his chickens.   I couldn’t tell you how feasible that is since I’ve never kept them, but I thought it was an easy system.


----------



## Dan Freeman

I was just watching the Back to Eden documentary the other night. Paul Gautschi does just shovel it to the chickens, but if I remember correctly, he has a large chicken run. My chicken run is only 8x8, has a small coop in it, a roosting bar right in the middle that stretches from side to side (not in the picture above), a long plank up to the coop entrance, and two hanging stations (one water/one food). It's a bit cramped in there for me to collect compost, so this will eliminate that.


----------



## begreen

EatenByLimestone said:


> I fenced in a new area last night and got all but 3 tomato plants in the ground.   I'll plant them at the cabin.
> 
> I have some pepper plants left and some squash to go in that bed.
> 
> Then onto the last bed.
> 
> Getting  it all in is tough this year.


Yes, I am still shuttling peppers and eggplant in pots out of the greenhouse on sunny days. May plant them tomorrow, but only when nighttime temps are in the 50s or higher.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> Yes, we each have our challenges. The deer have been kept out now for 2 days. Fingers crossed, we have them kept outside for the rest of the season now.  I remember your critter wars last year. It's always something it seems.
> Shade cloth really works. I would definitely try that. In the opposite direction, I just ordered some UV resistant, 6 mil greenhouse plastic to put over our heat lovers. Remay works, but it blocks a lot of light.
> Good idea on growing the lettuce inside. Our only problem when we grow it inside is that the leaves are quite delicate. One has to be more careful when washing and drying them. Still, homegrown is better than store-bought.



I’m so glad to hear that the deer have been kept out for two days.  Hurray!

My husband and I moved all our rock barriers away from the shed today, dug what we could, and installed some hardware cloth all along the long run.  We then moved soil back and the bigger rocks.  (A lot of the smaller rocks we put under the shed.)  It was definitely hard work.




After dinner tonight (yummy tabbouleh with parsley, onion, cucumber, and tomato from the garden), we went back out and installed some shade cloth over the two arched trellises in the garden.  I got a clearance roll a couple of years ago and divided it into seven pieces, I think, that can cover the whole garden area.  We only used four tonight, but they should provide some good shade for the pole beans which have lots of flowers but aren’t setting, and four the tomatoes that show the most heat stress in the late afternoon.  As a bonus, it also covers one of my rhubarb plants.  There is okra in the square beds in the middle of the garden.  Right now that is still uncovered.




The white stuff in the garden is shredded paper that was just put down today.  My nine year old wanted a job this morning, but helping with the shed work would have been too much for her.  I figured we had a big pile of papers that needed shredding, and I wanted to mulch my tomatoes in particular.  I don’t love the look of it, but it was a good way to get that child a job she could do, and she did it pretty well.  She had to shred the paper, carry it to the garden, put it around the plants and water it in so that the wind wouldn’t carry it away.   There was a lot of wind today so it was dry by the afternoon, but it seemed to be staying in place.

@Dan Freeman, your chicken run addition looks very nice.  I hope it works well for you.


----------



## Dan Freeman

I got the rest of the "compost factory" behind the chicken coop framed out today. Just waiting on the welded wire to arrive. Once that is here, I can attach it and put the Ondura roof panels on.

Very hot today in the low 90's. I spent over 1 1/2 hours watering.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

I hope you got that watering in before the heat of the day.  It’s miserable otherwise.

My youngest helped me water a little bit this morning because he wanted to wet down the paper mulch.  I really need to do a full watering on the garden, but I’m waiting for the temperature to drop a little more, and the sun to get a little lower.   It’s still 91 right now after a high of 96.   If I can, I’ll do both gardens this evening after planting out some sweet potato slips.  If I can’t manage all that after dinner, I’ll get out early in the morning to do the rest.  I usually water in the mornings just because that’s when I have more energy, but I wanted to plant sweet potatoes in the evening, so that’s why I didn’t haul out the pump this morning.


----------



## begreen

Finally, nighttime temps are over 50º. We had 85 hours above 70 in May last year. This year only 5! I moved most of the peppers and eggplants outdoors. Squashes are now also in the ground. I planted one of the cantaloupe plants outdoors, keeping a spare in the greenhouse. Picked our first cucumbers. This is a pic from Sunday. The greenhouse plant is now over 6’ tall. The outdoor sibling produced a cuke too but is growing much slower. This Poniente variety doesn't need a ton of light, but it likes heat.


----------



## Dan Freeman

This morning I built the door for the compost factory (to load in debris), and I was going to move to something else when UPS arrived with the welded wire, so I got the bottom, top, and front wire attached. I just need to do the sides and put the corrugated roof on now.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

begreen said:


> Finally, nighttime temps are over 50º. We had 85 days above 70 in May last year. This year only 5! I moved most of the peppers and eggplants outdoors. Squashes are now also in the ground. I planted one of the cantaloupe plants outdoors, keeping a spare in the greenhouse. Picked our first cucumbers. This is a pic from Sunday. The greenhouse plant is now over 6’ tall. The outdoor sibling produced a cuke too but is growing much slower. This Poniente variety doesn't need a ton of light, but it likes heat.
> 
> View attachment 295954


How did you have 85 days above 70 in May?

We had a rain out today.  I put some bok choy outside and got a bed ready for okra.


----------



## clancey

You people are really working hard and taking advantage of the weather that you are having as well. I have three holes dug and will put in my three plants this Thursday---need to be really careful with my back here--lol lol, so I just plug along..My plants are "Big Boy", Tomato and some Gourmet Lettuce, and the mint I will keep alone in its own container and wanted to do a lot more gardening this year but it is out of the question for me but I am sure enjoying your postings on here--so interesting. Will take a few pictures when I get them  in the ground out of the containers...clancey


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## Dan Freeman

Looking forward to the pics, Mrs Clacey. Don't work your back too hard!


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## Dan Freeman

Today, between downpours, we got the compost factory completed. Like all new things a chicken faces, they were apprehensive, so we coaxed them into it with some bread and diced boiled chicken.








We're getting two more chickens tomorrow from a friend of ours.


----------



## Woodsplitter67

so. heres the garden after  about 4.5 weeks. The tomatoes are pushing 3ft,  just planted my last row of beans last weekend. The weather has been warm so the plants are starting to jump


----------



## begreen

EatenByLimestone said:


> How did you have 85 days above 70 in May?
> 
> We had a rain out today.  I put some bok choy outside and got a bed ready for okra.


Yes, I caught that after posting and edited it. This should have said hours, not days.  It would have been safer to just post this from the NWS.




Woodsplitter your garden looks great. That is what our tomatoes looked like last year at this time. This year they are half that size. That is those that weren't decapitated by the deer.


----------



## clancey

Some pictures of my three plants--tomato, lettuce and a mint plant in the container with a small (thinking it died) min. rose bush...But it remains out there for now.  Made like a little sitting area and took all the dead leaves off of the tomato plant and the mint is growing and growing--lol clancey


----------



## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> Yes, I caught that after posting and edited it. This should have said hours, not days.  It would have been safer to just post this from the NWS.
> 
> View attachment 295995
> 
> 
> Woodsplitter your garden looks great. That is what our tomatoes looked like last year at this time. This year they are half that size. That is those that weren't decapitated by the deer.



I can see why you’re doing what you can to add heat to the tomatoes and peppers!  Meanwhile, yesterday morning I decided to pull out the rest of the shade cloth to cover the whole main garden instead of just some of the plants.    I’ve been pulling blushing tomatoes off the plants because I think they might ripen better inside instead of out where it’s too hot.  Apparently this is the hottest May ever recorded at the San Antonio Airport (the closest major airport to us).  In my previous years we tended to be about five degrees cooler than San Antonio, but this year I think we’re much closer to their temperatures because we have been drier, too.









						May 2022 was the hottest May in San Antonio on record
					

Records date back to 1885




					www.ksat.com
				








I did try to set up something of an indoor garden the other day.  I put za’atar seeds in the small planter, a lettuce and herb mix in the middle sized pot, and zucchini in the large pot.  Before I planted the lettuce I melted a whole tray of ice cubes on the soil to bring the temperature down.  I sprinkled the top of the soil with diatomaceous earth to cover the seeds, retain moisture, and hopefully reduce fungus gnats.  I’ve been keeping a squeeze bottle of water
in the refrigerator to help lower the temperatures when it needs more water.  I have no idea how any of this will do and whether I’ll have enough light from the windows (I’ve not tried summer growing there before).  We usually keep the blinds closed all summer because of heat, but we’ve opened these two for the possible plants.




I was happy to find blooms on the balsam plant in the backyard.  They were a beautiful deep red color.  I’m looking forward to the blooms filling out.  I’ve been really pleased with the salmon-colored ones I’m growing on the front porch.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

clancey said:


> Some pictures of my three plants--tomato, lettuce and a mint plant in the container with a small (thinking it died) min. rose bush...But it remains out there for now.  Made like a little sitting area and took all the dead leaves off of the tomato plant and the mint is growing and growing--lol clancey
> 
> View attachment 295997
> View attachment 295998
> View attachment 295999
> View attachment 296000
> View attachment 296001



I think it’s lovely to have seating near the garden, Mrs. Clancey, and your shelter for the newly transplanted lettuce is brilliant.  Thanks for the photos.


----------



## begreen

Having lived in San Antonio long ago I can really appreciate the problems of dealing with the heat. It gets hot there. The May temps look like what I remember experiencing in July.


----------



## Dan Freeman

I Super Bloomed the peppers, eggplants, and Tiny Tim tomatoes in the greenhouse for the first time today.

We added 2 new chickens to our small flock today (2 in the foreground) for a total of 5. We have a friend who buys our products to sell at his local farm market along with his fresh eggs. He gave us our original 3 hens 2 years ago and brought the 2 new ones today. There have been a few scuffles, but nothing serious, as they work out the pecking order. I imagine it will take the 5 of them a couple of days to settle in as a flock.

Got our 28 tomato plants pruned today. I like to grow them with one main stem.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

Dan Freeman said:


> I Super Bloomed the peppers, eggplants, and Tiny Tim tomatoes in the greenhouse for the first time today.
> 
> We added 2 new chickens to our small flock today (2 in the foreground) for a total of 5. We have a friend who buys our products to sell at his local farm market along with his fresh eggs. He gave us our original 3 hens 2 years ago and brought the 2 new ones today. There have been a few scuffles, but nothing serious, as they work out the pecking order. I imagine it will take the 5 of them a couple of days to settle in as a flock.
> 
> Got our 28 tomato plants pruned today. I like to grow them with one main stem.
> 
> View attachment 296006



“Super Bloomed” was a new verb for me, but the capital letters helped out in that it gave me a clue that it was probably a fertilizer.  Yep, I looked it up.  N-P-K of 12-55-6.  That’s some potent stuff.  How often do you use it?

Your hens look like they’re enjoying your compost factory floor.  I hope they settle in quickly for you.

I had a pleasant surprise in my garden earlier today.  I found some okra flowers and even a developing pod from a flower that must have bloomed yesterday that I didn’t see.  It’s a couple weeks earlier than I had expected to see any fruit.  I’m hoping it’s just some precocious plants rather than a stress response to too much heat.  I just put up shade cloth over the okra yesterday in preparation for another heat wave coming this weekend.


----------



## Dan Freeman

LOL, DG. I copied that post from another forum I am a member of where we are all using Super Bloom, so I guess we do use it as a verb, too. Guess I never mentioned SB on this forum. I begin using it once blooms begin to form, and then apply it every 10-14 days thereafter. It really makes a big difference, especially on my peppers.

Between here and my other forum (National Gardening Association's forum), I see a lot of folks growing okra. I have never grown it. In fact, I don't think I have ever even eaten it. May just have to try it next year.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Try the okra in a restaurant first 9r buy a bag in the grocery to make sure you like it.    Its not for everybody, and its horrible to take up space with something thats not going to be eaten.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Water those plants in well Mrs. Clancy!   The heat is rough on them right after transplant!


----------



## EatenByLimestone

In totally unrelated news we funded a new business today!   I started my training last night and hope to get things moving in late July.   Just in time for harvest, lol.


----------



## clancey

Thanks Lime --training for what? Just curious..Thanks for the water suggestion and will do that "right away"..Okra is a "slimy food" but when it is breaded and fried well--it is wonderful and putting dips with it makes it better-lol...Very good for you too so try it but for the first time make it crispy.  I love the color of that Balsam plant--beautiful -- and have fun with your chickens and that's what you need freeman--more work--lol---stamina you sure have--lol...Weather is strange and Texas seems to be taking on  some  bad weather--lots of rain or none---strange patterns on the weather channel. What does "super bloomed" mean in the way of gardening..Everything looks wonderful...thanks for the nice pictures and information....Yea begreen I am waiting for it to warm up too--maybe this week we will get nicer weather...clancey


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Overhead doors!   Most houses seem to have a garage.   

Many homeowners and even contractors don’t want to mess with them, but they aren’t located on roofs and don’t have teeth!  Seems easy!


----------



## Dan Freeman

clancey said:


> What does "super bloomed" mean in the way of gardening.


----------



## begreen

EatenByLimestone said:


> Overhead doors!   Most houses seem to have a garage.
> 
> Many homeowners and even contractors don’t want to mess with them, but they aren’t located on roofs and don’t have teeth!  Seems easy!


They often have coiled springs under high tension. Train your people well on that. A mistake can cause serious injury.


----------



## begreen

Dan Freeman said:


> View attachment 296036


The whole forest garden thing is permaculture-based, so this chemical farming technique caught me by surprise. It seems like a contradiction because it is not feeding the soil. Is it really necessary?


----------



## EatenByLimestone

begreen said:


> They often have coiled springs under high tension. Train your people well on that. A mistake can cause serious injury.


100%!    I’ll be the first technician like I was in our current business.   I’ll figure it all out and then train carefully.  

I’m not overly worried.   They are more predictable than caged animals.

One rule that the guys always seemed to appreciate was not making them do anything I wasn’t prepared to do.    I’ve called jobs and refunded money when I couldn’t access a roof due to design (hip) and couldn’t secure to the bottom (snow slides).   Couldn’t bring in a lift due to it being too close to other houses and a hull in front too.   No way to secure from the top or bottom, not getting on it.


----------



## Dan Freeman

The last two days were not real gardening days for me, except for watering everything.

Yesterday, I hauled 25 logs averaging 2.5 feet in length by 1-1.5 feet in diameter out of the woods to my firewood area. I will let them dry some more and then cut and split them.






I also got some of my smaller rounds split...the ones with lighter ends.






Today, I removed the top pieces from our raised pond, sanded them down, and put two coats of protective stain on them.






I still have to do the sides of the raised pond.

My peppers and eggplants have already taken off after applying Super Bloom just two days ago. Like I said before, SB is like applying steroids to blooming vegetables.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Nice!    I got some firewood duty too.   I finished stacking my wood, and stacked about a cord of pine for  the community/renter fire pit at the campsite.    Oddly enough, I must have done too many squats picking the pine up as muscle pain woke me up this morning!    Makes me laugh.   I never thought pine would give me a workout.   I tried to burn a bit of it at the fire pit.  Was way too wet!   I’m glad I got it stacked, lol.   It’d not be good if people paid for a vacation and couldn’t even light a camp fire!


----------



## DuaeGuttae

Our early June heatwave has begun.  We hit 98 yesterday and 100 today, and the week could hold a number of triple-digit days.  This is definitely not my favorite weather.

I spent extra time watering yesterday, though I took so long on the main garden areas that I didn’t get to my backyard until after lunch.  By that time my smallest luffa plant which had never been a strong plant anyway had gotten so much sun that it was beyond recovery.  The other two luffas wilt down in the afternoon when in strong sun but perk back up in the evening as long as I’ve given them water.  One has reached the top of the trellis.  The other one is halfway up and delighted me this morning with its first blooms.




I think these are actually the female flowers.  I think the male flowers will emerge in clusters further down the stalk.  These flowers were quite big and very pretty.  Each petal was about the size of a cucumber blossom.  I’m hoping this will make for a nice show out the window as the vines fill out the trellis.


----------



## Dan Freeman

Just saw this on the NGA forum. Looks like a gem of a movie. It's late now, but we are going to watch it tomorrow.

*The Gardener*


The entire movie is currently offered for free viewing on Peacock, but can also be rented on:
Amazon: DVD, Digital and Blu-ray https://bit.ly/2D64thC
Amazon Prime Video: https://amzn.to/2pi8q8Y
Google Play: http://bit.ly/2Nm6L0E
iTunes: https://apple.co/2ORVMbr
Vimeo: http://bit.ly/2OwQXVh
Vudu: http://bit.ly/2QJf58X
Microsoft Movies & TV: http://bit.ly/2OA6Bza
YouTube Movies: http://bit.ly/2MJuZNl


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Got the kid to plant a packet of okra into a prepared bed.   Going to try to get another bed planted with it tomorrow.


----------



## Woodsplitter67

begreen said:


> The whole forest garden thing is permaculture-based, so this chemical farming technique caught me by surprise. It seems like a contradiction because it is not feeding the soil. Is it really necessary?



This is exactly why there are fertilizer laws in NJ.   Phosphorus can be stored in the soil unlike nitrogen. All the runoff from fertilizers like this get into our water system like streams lakes and ocean's. This is causing algi blooms ect.. in the water. a simple soil test can determine what is needed.  maybe once a year at best. products like that should be off the  market... uour better off using ash fron the stove.. thats what we do.. it also adds alot of calcium for the tomatoes also


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Figured I’d post a favorite gardening tool.   It has about a 3 1/2’ handle.   It’s small enough to reach around plants, but not tear them up.   It’ll pull weeds all day lol ng if I was inclined to do so, lol.

Actually put the pic in this time.


----------



## Dan Freeman

Woodsplitter67 said:


> This is exactly why there are fertilizer laws in NJ.   Phosphorus can be stored in the soil unlike nitrogen. All the runoff from fertilizers like this get into our water system like streams lakes and ocean's. This is causing algi blooms ect.. in the water. a simple soil test can determine what is needed.  maybe once a year at best. products like that should be off the  market... uour better off using ash fron the stove.. thats what we do.. it also adds alot of calcium for the tomatoes also


Not sure what your quote of @bgreen is referring to without  the context. Can you specify what he was referring to?

If it is about the Super Bloom, since you are talking about phosphorus, I do NOT use Supper Bloom in the Food Forest. I use no fertilizers in the Food Forest. I use fresh compost to provide nutrients. The Supper Bloom is reserved for the peppers and egg plants I plant and grow all season in 9" pots in my greenhouse.

What are the laws in NJ, because you can easily purchase high phosphorus fertilizers in NJ.

I prefer pulverized eggshells for my tomatoes for calcium over wood ash, and God knows I have a lot of wood ash. I guess it's just what one prefers.


----------



## begreen

The reference was for the Super-Bloom. It wasn't clear where it was being used. Thanks for the clarification.


----------



## begreen

After 2 weeks of bliss, the same deer and 2 fawns broke in again this morning. They ate most of two of our healthiest tomatoes, two broccoli plants, some corn. Once again we are having to explore many hundreds of feet of fencing to find this new breach. I am considering a high-powered trebuchet to launch them into Puget Sound. Any recommendations?


----------



## Dan Freeman

EatenByLimestone said:


> Figured I’d post a favorite gardening tool.   It has about a 3 1/2’ handle.   It’s small enough to reach around plants, but not tear them up.   It’ll pull weeds all day lol ng if I was inclined to do so, lol.
> 
> Actually put the pic in this time.
> 
> View attachment 296111


I do it the old fashioned way...get down on my hands and knees and pull the weeds, and then I give them to my chickens. LOL


----------



## Dan Freeman

begreen said:


> After 2 weeks of bliss, the same deer and 2 fawns broke in again this morning. They ate most of two of our healthiest tomatoes, two broccoli plants, some corn. Once again we are having to explore many hundreds of feet of fencing to find this new breach. I am considering a high-powered trebuchet to launch them into Puget Sound. Any recommendations?


A high-powered trebuchet to launch them into Puget Sound would work!

Nothing more annoying when animals get to your garden even though you have put precautions in place. I was reading about the advantages of a 3D fence for deer.  Two fences, 3 feet apart. The inner fence is a minimum of two horizontal wires, the outer is a minimum of one horizontal wire. It can be electrified, but not necessary. Deer have horrible depth perception, so it is almost impossible for them to tell how far apart the fences are. Supposedly, makes them very apprehensive to jump. I have read about folks using this simple 3D fence system as more effective than a high deer fence. Have you ever heard of it? You can punch in "3d deer fence" on YouTube and find a lot of videos.


----------



## clancey

Freeman--your inside plants have really "taken off" and they look wonderful...Eaton I use that type of tool myself--a smaller variety and its wonderful...Texas has been through such "high heat" and more on the way--ugh--keep cool if you can...Sorry about the plants being eaten by the deer too. Clancey


----------



## DuaeGuttae

EatenByLimestone said:


> Got the kid to plant a packet of okra into a prepared bed.   Going to try to get another bed planted with it tomorrow.



What kind of okra do you plant?  How is your production up there?

I’m still working on growing enough okra to freeze.  My kids all like it well enough that in the past we’ve eaten it all fresh and never preserved any.  This year with more garden space, I’m growing more plants (aiming for 20–I have nineteen in various stages so far after my last reseeding).   I’m using seeds for Heavy Hitter Okra that I saved last year from a plant I grew that branched very nicely.

I have been very pleased with the shade cloth over the main garden area.  It has kept me from having to water every day in this heat wave (100 or over for four days so far).  I am trying to water every other day, though, so I need to get outside and get to it.  My newer garden area is covered with bits and pieces of shade cloth and has beach umbrellas in it at the moment.  The umbrellas were something of desperation, but there’s no rain in sight, so it won’t keep any moisture off the plants.

Last night we discovered that one of our air conditioners had stopped cooling.  Thankfully we have more than one unit for different zones, so we moved mattresses into our family room and my husband’s office so that kids could sleep more comfortably.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> After 2 weeks of bliss, the same deer and 2 fawns broke in again this morning. They ate most of two of our healthiest tomatoes, two broccoli plants, some corn. Once again we are having to explore many hundreds of feet of fencing to find this new breach. I am considering a high-powered trebuchet to launch them into Puget Sound. Any recommendations?



Ugh.  I am so sorry to hear that.  I hope you’re able to find and repair that breach soon.  (That sounds easier to me than catching the deer and putting them in a trebuchet.)


----------



## EatenByLimestone

I’m not sure what variety it is.    I planted, actually I had the little one do it, 2 packages of it.   I don’t think I get enough to freeze.   Maybe I will this year.


----------



## Woodsplitter67

Dan Freeman said:


> Not sure what your quote of @bgreen is referring to without  the context. Can you specify what he was referring to?
> 
> If it is about the Super Bloom, since you are talking about phosphorus, I do NOT use Supper Bloom in the Food Forest. I use no fertilizers in the Food Forest. I use fresh compost to provide nutrients. The Supper Bloom is reserved for the peppers and egg plants I plant and grow all season in 9" pots in my greenhouse.
> 
> What are the laws in NJ, because you can easily purchase high phosphorus fertilizers in NJ.
> 
> I prefer pulverized eggshells for my tomatoes for calcium over wood ash, and God knows I have a lot of wood ash. I guess it's just what one prefers.



As a licensed applicator there are regulations that need to be followed. Companies like tru green and others years ago apped with non slow release fertilizers . Yes a homeowner can purchase material like this and put it down.. thats part of the issue also.. The actual issue.. over application and run off..  some people use products like that super bloom , not all of the nutrients can be used and alot washes away..


----------



## Dan Freeman

Well, I use it only in my 30- 9" greenhouse pots, so it is not washing anywhere. What other folks do, they will do. I doubt the amount of Super Bloom homeowners use contributes much to  fertilizer runoff problems. A small canister (I believe it is less than a pound) lasts a whole season. Just look at all the homeowners who buy Miracle Grow soils at Home Depot and Lowes, the largest selling brand in big box stores in America, and all chemicals. Even so, I imagine homeowners contribute just a small fraction of fertilizer runoff into the steams/rivers, etc. than the farms that are using tons, literally tons,  of synthetic fertilizers to grow Jersey corn, a main summer crop for NJ.


----------



## Dan Freeman

We have been thinking for some time about getting a chipper/shredder, but so far haven't pulled the trigger. Now with us "reclaiming" property along our two property lines and taking out all the barberry bushes that have sprung up over the years, we are going to have a ton of debris. I could burn it, but instead decided to go ahead and get a chipper/shredder and use the chips/mulch in the Food Forest.

I don't like what I read (reviews) about most I see online, but I did find a Made-in-USA (right here in PA) brand called MacKissic. I would like to get a large one, but we don't have anything to pull it around the property, so I am going to get there largest "portable" one. Spoke with the company today. Shipping is $184 to a local terminal and another $158 if I want it delivered with a lift gate. Glad I called because they gave me a local dealer (about 50 miles) where I can pick it up that charges the same online price and assembles it, so I don't have to, so I went ahead and ordered one.

MIGHTY MAC HAMMERMILL SHREDDER CHIPPER SC800








						Mighty Mac Hammermill Shredder Chipper SC800 - MacKissic
					

Our 60 plus years of commitment to excellence have rewarded us with a legion of longtime customers, some with machines in use well over a decade or two.




					www.mackissic.com


----------



## EatenByLimestone

I have a large chipper/shredder.  It’s ment to be towed, but I just wheel it around by hand.   It burns oil like mad though.   I started only using used oil.   Recycling per say.   There’s never smoke out the exhaust, but the oil disappears.


----------



## begreen

Dan Freeman said:


> Supposedly, makes them very apprehensive to jump.


All of our break-ins have been from the deer either enlarging a hole by biting the deer fencing and then pushing through or more often, by crawling under the fence, commando style. Until you see a deer doing this it is hard to imagine, but they do. None have been from jumping over the fencing. This last one appears to have been from a low spot that used to have an anchor, but it had rotted away. Now it has two metal anchors in that low spot. I also repaired a hole in another location that they were enlarging and put temporary fencing around the tomato bed. The corn bed will get its normal fencing to keep out raccoons soon. This is portable fencing due to annual crop rotation. 

The long-term solution is to switch to metal fencing, but with over 1000' of fenceline, that will be very co$tly.


----------



## begreen

Dan Freeman said:


> We have been thinking for some time about getting a chipper/shredder, but so far haven't pulled the trigger. Now with us "reclaiming" property along our two property lines and taking out all the barberry bushes that have sprung up over the years, we are going to have a ton of debris. I could burn it, but instead decided to go ahead and get a chipper/shredder and use the chips/mulch in the Food Forest.
> 
> I don't like what I read (reviews) about most I see online, but I did find a Made-in-USA (right here in PA) brand called MacKissic. I would like to get a large one, but we don't have anything to pull it around the property, so I am going to get there largest "portable" one. Spoke with the company today. Shipping is $184 to a local terminal and another $158 if I want it delivered with a lift gate. Glad I called because they gave me a local dealer (about 50 miles) where I can pick it up that charges the same online price and assembles it, so I don't have to, so I went ahead and ordered one.
> 
> MIGHTY MAC HAMMERMILL SHREDDER CHIPPER SC800
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mighty Mac Hammermill Shredder Chipper SC800 - MacKissic
> 
> 
> Our 60 plus years of commitment to excellence have rewarded us with a legion of longtime customers, some with machines in use well over a decade or two.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.mackissic.com


It's worth doing the research on chippers. Many are not up to the job and either break down or stall when put to task. Some are worthless even if expensive. If you have a lot of yard debris annually that you want to chip, get a serious tool for the job. Check in the Gear forum here to chat with other owners about their chippers. Ask about maintenance, durability, and ease of servicing in addition to the size stock it will reliably consume.  For this reason, I am a little dubious about the low hp of the Mighty Mac. 3" stock may be pushing it. That said I see them often locally on craigslist and they keep running. I think you will find the more serious units start around 10hp.  The PowerKing PK0903 is a stouter unit, but also more expensive. The Woodmax 1260 and the Crary (Echo) Bearcat FC400 are worth checking out. Typically these will be in the $2500 range.
Side note: A friend has a 20 yr old DR chipper which he politely called a POS. However, it was cheap used. He eventually switched out the anemic B&S motor with a Honda 13hp and says it made a world of difference. 2" is the largest he chips with it now.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> All of our break-ins have been from the deer either enlarging a hole by biting the deer fencing and then pushing through or more often, by crawling under the fence, commando style. Until you see a deer doing this it is hard to imagine, but they do. None have been from jumping over the fencing. This last one appears to have been from a low spot that used to have an anchor, but it had rotted away. Now it has two metal anchors in that low spot. I also repaired a hole in another location that they were enlarging and put temporary fencing around the tomato bed. The corn bed will get its normal fencing to keep out raccoons soon. This is portable fencing due to annual crop rotation.
> 
> The long-term solution is to switch to metal fencing, but with over 1000' of fenceline, that will be very co$tly.



Begreen, your description of deer biting fencing had me really confused for a bit.  We have high deer pressure here, but I’ve not seen that.  When I got to the very last line and you mentioned switching to metal fencing, I had an “aha!” moment.  I hadn’t realized that your fencing was not metal.

How do you fence your corn to keep raccoons out?  Our garden is fenced like Fort Knox, but raccoons have definitely gotten in.  One that had made a habit of digging had to get trapped just recently, and we haven’t had the digging since.  I just assumed they climbed over the fence.  Do you use an electric fence around your corn?


----------



## begreen

I went out in the rain to get the mail and spotted the mom and fawns casing the joint. A walk up the driveway showed the depressed wet grass where they were checking out the fenceline.
I pound in some 1" pvc pipe segments around the corners and middle of our raised bed and then slip in some posts of 1/2" pipe or rebar and wrap around them with 4 ft deer fence. That has kept the raccoons out. Earlier I had to use a portable electric fence.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

I took some pictures of my efforts to shade the garden.  We actually have a new roll of shade cloth coming since I didn’t have enough for both gardens, but I had to get creative during this week.




Here are some sweet potato cuttings that I planted on Monday morning.  I have enough that I can replace them if they don’t make it, but with shade and water, they’ve done well despite the high heat and no roots.  Sweet potatoes kind of amaze me sometimes.  I’m waiting to plant the rest of the bed until the onions mature.  The sweet potato slips are going crazy in a planter on my deck and are drinking water like crazy in this heat (which is in part why I trimmed them and planted the cuttings in the soil).



I’m also amazed that my rhubarb has toughed it out this long through record-setting May heat.  I put one of the umbrellas over it to help protect it when we’re in the triple digits.  It only hit 98 today, though, and tomorrow may be like that, too.  Unfortunately the hottest weather is yet to come for the weekend.



My basil is doing well.  I gave all of it a pretty good trimming today so that we could have pesto for lunch.



This is one of my four beds of okra.  This one has a volunteer watermelon in it, I think.  I decided to see if I can let it go for a living mulch.



And amazingly, there’s a cucumber developing this week.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Ok.  I think I have the garden in.   There are still 2 infilled beds, but I don’t think I’ll fill them this year.

I started a new crop of Thai basil in the aerogarden since the current crop is getting stringy and trying to flower.  It’s days are numbered.   

I’ve got lots of flowers coming up in the other aerogardens.   They’ll be transplanted out soon.


----------



## begreen

Speaking of potatoes, I learned something today. Did you know that there are determinate and indeterminate potatoes, just like tomatoes? It’s important to know which variety, especially if growing in mounds or layering in boxes or bags to increase yield. I have been growing potatoes for years without knowing this.

https://www.gardeningdream.com/the-ultimate-list-of-determinate-and-indeterminate-potatoes/


----------



## begreen

EatenByLimestone said:


> Ok.  I think I have the garden in.   There are still 2 infilled beds, but I don’t think I’ll fill them this year.
> 
> I started a new crop of Thai basil in the aerogarden since the current crop is getting stringy and trying to flower.  It’s days are numbered.
> 
> I’ve got lots of flowers coming up in the other aerogardens.   They’ll be transplanted out soon.


What do you think of the Idoo system. It seems a better value, but maybe not as good?
Amazon product


----------



## EatenByLimestone

I did not know there were determinate and indeterminate potatoes, lol.   Looks like I’ve only grown the determinate varieties!

That looks like a great deal!  Especially the 12 pod one for $10 more!  I think it’s 100% worth trying out.   I think they are a game changer for me and my gardening ways.   They may not offer as much of an advantage since you have a green house.   I think the audio/Aerogarden is like Chevy/Ford.   Lots of opinions but both seem to be good products.

I didn’t see other trays offered.   Mine came with a 6 pod tray and a 23 pod tray.   I used the 6 pod to see what growing dwarf kale would be like and plan to try some tiny tim tomatoes later.    I’ve mostly used the seed starting trays.

I figure next year I should be a little more organized with the aerogarden and be able to move plantlets through faster.

This was the first year I grew my own broccoli plantlets.   I can easily have broccoli and kale ready to go as the frost leaves the ground.


----------



## bigealta

begreen said:


> All of our break-ins have been from the deer either enlarging a hole by biting the deer fencing and then pushing through or more often, by crawling under the fence, commando style. Until you see a deer doing this it is hard to imagine, but they do.
> 
> This is portable fencing due to annual crop rotation.
> 
> The long-term solution is to switch to metal fencing, but with over 1000' of fenceline, that will be very co$tly.


I saw one army crawl under a split rail fence once. Front legs were stretched out flat on the ground with the chest touching the ground. Yeah hard to believe they can do that without seeing it.

I read somewhere that the newer thoughts are that crop rotation is not only unnecessary but not helpful. Not sure where i read it but they pointed out many stands of vegetation in nature thrive year after year with no man made inputs or manipulation. Wish i could find it.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

In a healthy forest, at least in the east,  there aren’t many long standing monocultures.   You have a definite succession from grasses to bushes to different stages of trees.  This avoids monocultures in the long term, and these are perennial plants.  

If you plant monocultures, I think you’re more apt to have problems.


----------



## bigealta

EatenByLimestone said:


> In a healthy forest, at least in the east,  there aren’t many long standing monocultures.   You have a definite succession from grasses to bushes to different stages of trees.  This avoids monocultures in the long term, and these are perennial plants.
> 
> If you plant monocultures, I think you’re more apt to have problems.


I think it was more referring to small vegetable gardens. EXample keep tomatoes in the same spot, etc.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Could be.   Perennial plants tend to have fungal relationships that annuals do not.   Dan’s food forest takes advantage of this by growing the annuals alongside the perennial plants.   Best of both worlds.   In nature, if a pathogen makes it to a stand, the stand gets wiped out and the world moves on.   The farmer has a tougher time with that.


----------



## begreen

Crop rotation not only helps stop pathogens from taking hold, but it's also a way to enrich the soil between plantings of heavy feeders. We use beans, peas, carrots, beets, turnips, etc. for this. If you don't rotate the brassica family you risk getting club root. Once that fungus is in the soil it's very hard to get rid of.
This is not the only way to plant. Native Americans often would plant their corn over fish guts, heads and tails, then they would interplant squash and beans, the three sisters.


----------



## Dan Freeman

begreen said:


> Speaking of potatoes, I learned something today. Did you know that there are determinate and indeterminate potatoes, just like tomatoes? It’s important to know which variety, especially if growing in mounds or layering in boxes or bags to increase yield. I have been growing potatoes for years without knowing this.
> 
> https://www.gardeningdream.com/the-ultimate-list-of-determinate-and-indeterminate-potatoes/


Wow! I never knew that. I saved the article to share with some gardening friends.


----------



## begreen

EatenByLimestone said:


> That looks like a great deal! Especially the 12 pod one for $10 more! I think it’s 100% worth trying out. I think they are a game changer for me and my gardening ways. They may not offer as much of an advantage since you have a green house. I think the audio/Aerogarden is like Chevy/Ford. Lots of opinions but both seem to be good products.


I am thinking cooler weather growing, though in the house spinach crop during the summer sounds interesting. It would be nice to try this for winter herb and lettuce growing and getting peppers and eggplants started in the house.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

I think you’re only limited by your imagination with these things.  I successfully grew the dwarf kale quickly.  We trimmed and ate a meal, then it seemed to not be bouncing back very fast.   I moved it outside and it’s doing fine.   I never thought of summer crops in them, but inside temps are lower than bolting temps for many herbs.   I don’t see why it wouldn’t work.  I’ve seen some videos stating that specific fertilizer mixes were better than others for some crops.   I haven’t tried other mixes yet.


----------



## begreen

I need to read up on this method of growing and the consumables. It looks like you need to buy sponges and nutrient mixes for them. Do you have any favorite sources for info or for supplies?

Is algae growth in the water an issue?


----------



## Dan Freeman

Today, we dug a 36" "test hole" down in the FF where we want to put in a pond. We wanted to make sure we could get down at least 36" without hitting the shale shelf. I used the new electric jack hammer I bought. It did a good job of going through the thick, shale infested clay, and even broke up a couple of large rocks, but I am going to be sore tonight!







Knowing we could get down at least 3 feet, we then took an orange extension cord and laid out a rough outline of the future pond. It will be approximately 15 feet long and 12 feet wide. Here are some pics. Might be hard to see the orange electric extension cord outline. Tomorrow, I am going to buy some bright spray paint to mark out the edges.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Please tell me you aren’t going to try to dig it with the jackhammer.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

begreen said:


> I need to read up on this method of growing and the consumables. It looks like you need to buy sponges and nutrient mixes for them. Do you have any favorite sources for info or for supplies?
> 
> Is algae growth in the water an issue?


I haven’t had algae in the water.   It’ll get brown colored, but that’s from the peat sponges.   Algae forms on top of the sponges.  Some buy little discs, or use tin foil, duct tape, etc.   I ignore it.    Maybe it’s more of an issue if you’re growing long term.

I looked into several brands of sponges and they were within 2c each in price.   For that I’ll stick to the aerogarden ones.   I buy them in 50 packs.   

I have only dosed with the nutrients  provided by aerogarden.  I know others exist, but I’ve only opened 1 of the 3 bottles that they gave me.  2 capfuls every 14 days makes it last a long time.


----------



## begreen

Ah, so you can buy aerogarden sponges without seed then.  That was a sticking point for me.


----------



## Dan Freeman

EatenByLimestone said:


> Please tell me you aren’t going to try to dig it with the jackhammer.


Yup. Jackhammer and pickaxes. Shovel out the 540 cubic feet of clay and rocks (20 cubic yards) and relocate it all to another area of the property. We're used to doing everything "by hand". We don't own any heavy equipment.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Ugh, that’s a lot of work!

I think I’d rent an excavator for that job.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

begreen said:


> Ah, so you can buy aerogarden sponges without seed then.  That was a sticking point for me.


It would have been for me too!   Last ones I got were ordered from Home Depot.   I think I’ve used about 200 so far this year.


----------



## Dan Freeman

EatenByLimestone said:


> Ugh, that’s a lot of work!
> 
> I think I’d rent an excavator for that job.


Nah. Part of the fun of a project like this is doing it all by hand.


----------



## begreen

First harvest of garlic. It was planted in late October 2021. The other half of the planted garlic is the white porcelain variety. It looks like it has another month or so to go.


----------



## Dan Freeman

begreen said:


> First harvest of garlic. It was planted in late October 2021. The other half of the planted garlic is the white porcelain variety. It looks like it has another month or so to go.
> 
> View attachment 296190


Curious, why you pulled your garlic this early? We plant ours in October, but don't harvest until August, once the tops die. We find we get much larger bulbs at that point..


----------



## Dan Freeman

Food Forest Pond Update:

Yesterday I posted about our proposed FF pond plans. However, after doing a bit of research last night and crunching some numbers, it was back to the drawing board.

Originally, we planned the pond to be 15 x 12 x 3. But when I calculated the total gallons, it came out to over 4000 gallons. I am concerned about our ability to keep it filled from rainwater. In addition, the cost of an EDPM liner, which would need to be 25 x 25 was close to $1000. Since I want to use a solar pump, and not pay $1000's, the one we can afford costs about $500 and only circulates about 900 gph.  Not good, since the circulation for a pond should be the entire volume circulated once per hour.

Today, I re-calculated, and decided on a 16 x 8 x 2.5 pond. That will cut the total water volume down to about 2400 gallons, a reduction of 2/5's of the original size. I can get away with a 25 x 20 pond liner which saves me about $250, and I am willing to go with a total water circulation of 1/3 per hour since the pond will be heavily planted.

In addition, I calculated the total rainwater runoff we can collect in 1 year from our 4 roofs, most of which are already hooked up to a central discharge pipe in the field. The house is 33 x 30, the biz warehouse is 14 x 24, the old chicken coop is 10 x 8, and the new chicken coop is 10 x 11. When all that area is added up and multiplied by the average annual rainfall in our area (50" per year), we can harvest an average of 75,000 gallons per year. I think that will be enough to keep the pond filled and still be able to water the food forest during the growing season.

Here is the new "rough" outline of the 16 x 8 FF pond. The corners will be rounded off.


----------



## clancey

That's going to be a nice pond and good for your water saving as well with the run off. I agree with Eaton--I would get one of those "cats" and do that job...--lol. Sometimes work like that is best  to do with first quality and efficient equipment and less Wear and Tear on the body as well. That garlic looks real good but I wonder how large the bulbs will be? I am glad freeman that you like the natural and hard way of doing things----not me....get some equipment like tractors and stuff--lol  Everything looks real nice everyone and my three plants are doing well..clancey


----------



## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> I am thinking cooler weather growing, though in the house spinach crop during the summer sounds interesting. It would be nice to try this for winter herb and lettuce growing and getting peppers and eggplants started in the house.



I’ve loved having my Aerogardens for starting tomatoes, peppers, and eggplant inside in January and February.  I am growing kale inside right now.  I’ve harvested twice, but it’s not really enough for our family of six.  It’s more just a supplement to salad.  I’ll probably pull it soon and switch to my small lettuce.

I’ve done parsley and dill inside in summers past because they don’t do well in the heat down here.  I’ve done basil in the winters.

I don’t buy Aerogarden pods.  I reuse the plastic that came with what we were originally given.  I shop around for sponges in bulk, and I’ve tried using cotton balls with some degree of success.  I’m interested in trying luffa sponge pieces in the future if I can get a crop this summer.

I’ve never bought a new Aerogarden for myself though a few years ago I bought some as gifts for others.  Their prices have increased in recent years where I wouldn’t buy one unless it was on an amazing discount.  I have no knowledge of the Idoo system you posted, but almost the most valuable part of the Aerogarden system for me is the seed starting tray, so I wouldn’t want to be without something equivalent if I were making an investment like that.  In the winter and spring I use up all sixty-one slots I have (two machines), and I go through more than one rotation.

I wonder if you could find used Aerogardens on Craigslist or in a local thrift store.   We were given our first as a present for my daughter, and when I decided that I wanted one for myself, I found mine used on Ebay, I believe.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> First harvest of garlic. It was planted in late October 2021. The other half of the planted garlic is the white porcelain variety. It looks like it has another month or so to go.
> 
> View attachment 296190



That looks beautiful, Begreen.  Good work.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

Dan Freeman said:


> Yup. Jackhammer and pickaxes. Shovel out the 540 cubic feet of clay and rocks (20 cubic yards) and relocate it all to another area of the property. We're used to doing everything "by hand". We don't own any heavy equipment.


 Be careful with your shoulders doing that work.   I’ve injured myself before just with the vibration from a small pole saw, much less with jackhammering into rock.  Don’t push yourself too hard.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

@begreen, I thought of you this morning.  There was a newborn fawn stationed right outside my garden, just where I needed to put my pump for watering.  My six year old promised it that we wouldn’t disturb it, so I went and carried water to my olives, pomegranates, and peach tree, and did the watering in the back yard instead.  

I then went up the hill and helped my neighbors put up some supports for shade cloth that they bought this weekend.  They are borrowing some of my rebar and polypipe to cover one of their beds that gets more sun and less water from their irrigation.  Last week they were out of town, and I was watering their garden with the hose every evening during this heatwave.  They’ve already mulched heavily, but I think the shade cloth will help a lot.  

It was too hot for me to think about watering once I got home, and the fawn was still there anyway.  I checked how the plants are doing and the water levels in the ollas when I harvested a cucumber and some peppers for our lunchtime salad, and I think everything can hang on till evening when the sun isn’t so bright.  It will still be hot then, but we have a good breeze today, so I’ll try to give everything a good soaking then.

Saturday and Sunday we hit 103 both days.  We’re supposed to be a little lower today and possibly drop to 96 or so on Wednesday.  It’s crazy when upper 90’s seem like relief, but it has been pretty brutally hot.  I’m thankful that our air conditioner is back up and running.  (Fire ants had gotten into the contactor and were preventing it from doing its job.  Crazy!)


----------



## Dan Freeman

DuaeGuttae said:


> @begreen, I thought of you this morning.  There was a newborn fawn stationed right outside my garden, just where I needed to put my pump for watering.  My six year old promised it that we wouldn’t disturb it, so I went and carried water to my olives, pomegranates, and peach tree, and did the watering in the back yard instead.
> 
> I then went up the hill and helped my neighbors put up some supports for shade cloth that they bought this weekend.  They are borrowing some of my rebar and polypipe to cover one of their beds that gets more sun and less water from their irrigation.  Last week they were out of town, and I was watering their garden with the hose every evening during this heatwave.  They’ve already mulched heavily, but I think the shade cloth will help a lot.
> 
> It was too hot for me to think about watering once I got home, and the fawn was still there anyway.  I checked how the plants are doing and the water levels in the ollas when I harvested a cucumber and some peppers for our lunchtime salad, and I think everything can hang on till evening when the sun isn’t so bright.  It will still be hot then, but we have a good breeze today, so I’ll try to give everything a good soaking then.
> 
> Saturday and Sunday we hit 103 both days.  We’re supposed to be a little lower today and possibly drop to 96 or so on Wednesday.  It’s crazy when upper 90’s seem like relief, but it has been pretty brutally hot.  I’m thankful that our air conditioner is back up and running.  (Fire ants had gotten into the contactor and were preventing it from doing its job.  Crazy!)



It seems like it has been a tough summer in Texas with no relief in sight. Sorry to hear this.


----------



## begreen

I'm glad you got the AC back up and running.  Hope you see some relief soon. 100º temp has been reported as far north as Michigan!


----------



## bigealta

Dan Freeman said:


> Food Forest Pond Update:
> 
> Yesterday I posted about our proposed FF pond plans. However, after doing a bit of research last night and crunching some numbers, it was back to the drawing board.
> 
> Originally, we planned the pond to be 15 x 12 x 3. But when I calculated the total gallons, it came out to over 4000 gallons. I am concerned about our ability to keep it filled from rainwater. In addition, the cost of an EDPM liner, which would need to be 25 x 25 was close to $1000. Since I want to use a solar pump, and not pay $1000's, the one we can afford costs about $500 and only circulates about 900 gph.  Not good, since the circulation for a pond should be the entire volume circulated once per hour.
> 
> Today, I re-calculated, and decided on a 16 x 8 x 2.5 pond. That will cut the total water volume down to about 2400 gallons, a reduction of 2/5's of the original size. I can get away with a 25 x 20 pond liner which saves me about $250, and I am willing to go with a total water circulation of 1/3 per hour since the pond will be heavily planted.
> 
> In addition, I calculated the total rainwater runoff we can collect in 1 year from our 4 roofs, most of which are already hooked up to a central discharge pipe in the field. The house is 33 x 30, the biz warehouse is 14 x 24, the old chicken coop is 10 x 8, and the new chicken coop is 10 x 11. When all that area is added up and multiplied by the average annual rainfall in our area (50" per year), we can harvest an average of 75,000 gallons per year. I think that will be enough to keep the pond filled and still be able to water the food forest during the growing season.
> 
> Here is the new "rough" outline of the 16 x 8 FF pond. The corners will be rounded off.
> 
> View attachment 296191
> 
> 
> View attachment 296192


Deeper is better if you are going to have fish, especially koi. Also look into airlift for moving water. The biggest cost of pumps is electricity used over time. They use a lot.


----------



## Dan Freeman

bigealta said:


> Deeper is better if you are going to have fish, especially koi. Also look into airlift for moving water. The biggest cost of pumps is electricity used over time. They use a lot.



I will probably just put in some feeder goldfish and let them grow. 

I have a 425-gallon raised pond in my backyard that is 30" deep. I put in a half dozen feeder goldfish 5+ years ago. The smallest now is about 6" and the largest is about 10". This pond has a few plants and a pump/filter that completely circulates the water 2x an hour.

I don't plan to run electricity to the pond, so it will not have an electric pump or filter. I will be installing a solar 900 gal/hr solar pump with a waterfall for aeration. It will also be heavily planted to help keep the water clean.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

I dug three more pounds of potatoes today from plants where the foliage had completely died down.  There are still more plants in the bed, but this gave me enough free space near my trellis to put some watermelon seeds in the ground.  I’ll have to be good about keeping them watered, but at least it only hit 98 today.  I think we may have an even slightly cooler day tomorrow before the high heat returns on Thursday.

In my new indoor growing area I spotted some teeny, tiny sprouts in the planter where I spread my za’atar seeds.  The lettuce had popped up pretty quickly, and the zucchini is growing, but I hadn’t been sure that the za’atar would come up. Both the lettuce and the zucchini stretched out pretty fast, so I know they’re not getting enough light from just the windows.  I put a floor lamp with LED bulbs on them while I work on getting something better.  Za’atar can be hard to germinate, so I was pretty excited to see something today. I hope I can keep it growing.


----------



## begreen

Only 98º today... We and our plants would be in meltdown mode. It was 50º lower here last night. I won't be starting za'atar anytime soon, but congratulations.  My Aleppo peppers are asking for sweaters.


----------



## Dan Freeman

Spotted my first ripening tomato today. Should break my old record for first ripe tomato. We'll be eating Shishito peppers in about another 10 days. All three beds of potatoes are blooming like crazy (means they are making potatoes!). Largest garlic plants we have ever had; I'm hoping that translates to the largest bulbs we've ever grown, but we won't know for another 6-8 weeks.

Picked up the chipper/shredder. Glad I didn't buy it online. The store I bought it from, set it all up, filled it with gas and oil, and spent 30 minutes with me showing me the proper way to use it, covering all the parts, and covering all the maintenance. I was very impressed with their service.

Found cedar apple rust spots on my two apple trees today. We have a beautiful, large cedar tree by the edge of the Food Forest. I was thinking of cutting it down until I read that you have to eliminate all the cedar trees within a two-mile radius to be assured of no cedar apple rust spots! Don't think my neighbors would appreciate me tramping through their properties, chain saw in hand, cutting down every cedar tree, so I am reading about fungicides to pick one I want to use.

My new chicken compost factory is working out really well. I can't believe how much small particulate matter those 5 chickens work through the screen floor by scratching in it all day. All the material (greens and browns) gets thoroughly mixed. Should help to produce fresh composted soil much more quickly. I built a pallet bin next to the coup where I am piling it all as I remove it from under the factory. When the bin gets full, I'll move it down to my composting area in the FF.

Ordered underlayment, liner, and solar pump for the FF pond. Should be in tomorrow. We still have a lot of digging to do.

Never a dull or slow moment around here!


----------



## begreen

Dan Freeman said:


> Never a dull or slow moment around here!


I'll say, you are super busy.


----------



## Dan Freeman

begreen said:


> I'll say, you are super busy.


We're both retired. We have a small home business, but when we are not doing that, we spend our time working on our gardens and property. It's our recreation.


----------



## Poindexter

Running behind up here as usual.  I am trialing two Amish Paste Tomato this year.  I planted seeds indoors on April 3, transplanted on June 1, the smaller of the two is pictured just now.  Our actual last frost this year was May 13, but overnight lows were still in the +40s dF when I transplanted.

These guys (gals?) have all the  advantages, green sand, fish meal, rock phosphate, bone meal, blood meal, kelp meal; I have probably watched 40 hours of youtubes.  Bat guano, my ongoing attention.  A couple days before transplant I Pasteurized some molasses in 3 quarts of water, added about a pound of soil bacteria once it cooled off, and then poured that over about 2 gallons of gravel sized hardwood lump charcoal.  I added some more water to get everything wet, and then fed the bacteria some blood meal and green sand once the bacteria had proven to be viable.

The charcoal and bacteria and molasses are in the 25 gallon planters under the tomato.  I am either going to get fruit before first frost, or not.  They will get their first feeding as viable transplants tomorrow, maybe Thursday.  Planning to go with high nitrogen feeds until they bloom, then just Ca and P until they set fruit, then stop watering and buy a pressure canner.  I have zero spare days looking at time to maturity versus last frost/ first frost, but our last frosts have been coming earlier than average, and our first frosts later than average recently, so I am going for it. 

My goal is 50 pints total of RR tomato and salsa.  Might need to make small greenhouses to keep them going late in the season, but I have a plan for that.

When I transplanted I pinched off all but the upper two leaf stems and buried them up to their necks.  In the intervening two weeks they have grown enough for me to pinch off the lower two stems so I can water without getting the leaves wet, but they seem somewhat nonchalant about 18 hours of good daily sunshine and my short growing season.

I am very likely to rig up a small unit to play audio of the Rocky theme and Eye of the Tiger every morning when the sun fist hits them this weekend. Simple photoresistor for a light activated switch, maybe repeat around solar noon.

FWIW summer is already over up here.  We have, at last count, 18 forest fires (under 25 acres) within 50 miles of downtown, and a whopper over 250 acres about 90 miles SE of downtown.  My tomato get limited sun until further notice, and we can plan on daily rain to start on July 5, about three weeks from now.  The rain will turn to snow in mid September.


----------



## Poindexter

Toot tootle toot tootle tot tot tot, Toot tootle toot tootle tot tot tot...


----------



## clancey

Ha Ha---the planning of all of this is good for you and how creative you are as well..You are well aware of the world situation of this I have no doubt and this type of getting prepared and planning is good for you...enjoy your moments of thought like this for it keeps one young "longer". Keep us if you have time "posted" about all your "little plants", for I really enjoy your very different takes about future and possibly "other concerns" that I will not get into for it would be just "too political" for this forum to handle.. I listen to "all kinds of news" everyday from around the world and am well aware of the situation that we are all in and by our thinking will survive because we are thinking ahead to the best of our ability for our own survival as well.. My three plants seem to be doing okay and I mix my own food for my three plants ---a secret recipe--lol...and today I will take some pictures of my three plants--a tomato, a lettuce plant and a mint plant as well as two seed types in my planter--Basil and Parsley and they have not surfaced just yet...Here's to you:

old clancey


----------



## begreen

Poindexter said:


> Running behind up here as usual.  I am trialing two Amish Paste Tomato this year.  I planted seeds indoors on April 3, transplanted on June 1, the smaller of the two is pictured just now.  Our actual last frost this year was May 13, but overnight lows were still in the +40s dF when I transplanted.
> 
> These guys (gals?) have all the  advantages, green sand, fish meal, rock phosphate, bone meal, blood meal, kelp meal; I have probably watched 40 hours of youtubes.  Bat guano, my ongoing attention.  A couple days before transplant I Pasteurized some molasses in 3 quarts of water, added about a pound of soil bacteria once it cooled off, and then poured that over about 2 gallons of gravel sized hardwood lump charcoal.  I added some more water to get everything wet, and then fed the bacteria some blood meal and green sand once the bacteria had proven to be viable.
> 
> The charcoal and bacteria and molasses are in the 25 gallon planters under the tomato.  I am either going to get fruit before first frost, or not.  They will get their first feeding as viable transplants tomorrow, maybe Thursday.  Planning to go with high nitrogen feeds until they bloom, then just Ca and P until they set fruit, then stop watering and buy a pressure canner.  I have zero spare days looking at time to maturity versus last frost/ first frost, but our last frosts have been coming earlier than average, and our first frosts later than average recently, so I am going for it.
> 
> My goal is 50 pints total of RR tomato and salsa.  Might need to make small greenhouses to keep them going late in the season, but I have a plan for that.
> 
> When I transplanted I pinched off all but the upper two leaf stems and buried them up to their necks.  In the intervening two weeks they have grown enough for me to pinch off the lower two stems so I can water without getting the leaves wet, but they seem somewhat nonchalant about 18 hours of good daily sunshine and my short growing season.
> 
> I am very likely to rig up a small unit to play audio of the Rocky theme and Eye of the Tiger every morning when the sun fist hits them this weekend. Simple photoresistor for a light activated switch, maybe repeat around solar noon.
> 
> FWIW summer is already over up here.  We have, at last count, 18 forest fires (under 25 acres) within 50 miles of downtown, and a whopper over 250 acres about 90 miles SE of downtown.  My tomato get limited sun until further notice, and we can plan on daily rain to start on July 5, about three weeks from now.  The rain will turn to snow in mid September.
> 
> View attachment 296241


Your diligent greenhouse growing inspired me to try new cukes (sweet success?), which worked great until we started getting cucumber mosaic virus. Now we are growing Poniente from Territorial. The seeds are expensive but worth it. This cucumber is very disease resistant, an early producer, and great for the greenhouse. Lower light does not affect it badly. Our plant is now over 8ft and has provided 6 cukes so far with many more coming. I recommend you try it out. We grew Amish Paste for a few years and it is a nice tomato. Stake the plants well, they get heavy. Our favorite sauce tomatoes are Blue Beech and Pomodoro Squisito. The latter is an improved San Marzano style with less blossom-end rot and greater production. The tomatoes are a bit larger too. I've heard some good things about Opalka, but have not tried that yet. Maybe next year.

PS: This year I am trying out Tomato-Tone as a tomato fertilizer. Many respected tomato growers swear by it. Its high, available calcium content is tailored to tomatoes.


----------



## Dan Freeman

Hot and humid today, but I started digging the pond in the FF. I removed 50 cubic feet of dirt, only about 1. 66 cubic yards. Only 18.34 cubic yards to go!


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Keep going!  You’ll get there!


----------



## begreen

Meanwhile, gardening in Texas.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

You got that right, Begreen!

Actually we had cloud cover for much of the day, and the temperature stayed in the lower 90’s.  I think 93 was the high.  Woo hoo!  It was more humid, though, so it wasn’t exactly pleasant.

I had ordered some new shade cloth a while back, and it arrived this morning after a few shipping delays.  My improvised coverings in the new garden area worked, but I was having some problems with the rocks that were holding the cloth being pulled into the beds because of wind.  I was also nervous about the umbrellas and wanted to get them down.  The cloud cover made today a good day for redoing shade cloth.  I actually moved the old cloth to the new garden and put the new cloth on the old garden because the new roll had slightly more material, and the old garden is bigger.  I’ll have to get used to the green color (I get whatever I can find most economically as long as it’s a reasonable color for plants), but it’s up well enough for now just in time for more heat and sun tomorrow.

While I was working away outside, two of my kids actually managed to make lunch.  The pre-teen cooked spaghetti noodles and did some onion chopping.  The teen cooked the sauce with some of our garden produce (shishito peppers, onions, bay leaves, oregano, and a few tomatoes).  She did have to add some store-bought chopped tomatoes, though.

For dinner tonight I used some of our Adirondack Blue potatoes (and a few Yukon Golds) to make mashed potatoes.         It looks like some sort of blueberry ice cream or something, but it tastes just like normal potatoes.


----------



## clancey

I hope the weather gets a bit cooler for you all to at least give you a refreshing break from the heat. I do not think that I could go for the "blue potato's"--lol...not quite ready to see that color on the plate or even to bake them--not me...Your kids are doing just wonderful with cooking for their food they made sounds "great"....My plants doing okay and still alive with my no green thumb but they look pretty and I got about two servings out of my lettuce as well--feel like a rabbit here...clancey


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## begreen

There are hundreds of varieties of potatoes. Many that we never see in the US. We grew purple potatoes last year. They were delicious.


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## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> There are hundreds of varieties of potatoes. Many that we never see in the US. We grew purple potatoes last year. They were delicious.



What variety did you grow, Begreen?

I took some pictures of our shade-cloth covered gardens this morning after my son and I made a few tweaks.  Normally I just use clamps and clothes pin to hold the cloth together, but today I replaced those with reusable cable ties.  It works better, and I think the cloth will be up for quite some while.

These first two photos are the new garden with the old red shade cloth, and the old garden with the new green shade cloth.  I guess I’m used to the red color by now because it doesn’t bother me.  I don’t love the green, but I figure I’ll get used to it, too.






This photo I took to capture my pickling cucumbers.  These are covered with female flowers, whereas the slicing cucumbers in the other garden are covered with male flowers.  I don’t know if I need to, but I brought a bunch of male flowers over today to try to hand pollinate.  We are getting a cucumber here and there, but last year by this time I was fermenting jars of pickles.  This year is therefore quite disappointing.

Another thing to note about the photo is the curved line on the ground to the left of the garden bed.  That’s simply the sun shining through a gap where two pieces of shade cloth meet.  The plants definitely prefer the shade these days.  It’s back up to 100 with bright sunshine today.



The next couple of plants are ones that I’m proud of for hanging in there.  The first is one of the rhubarb plants.  I still don’t know if I’ll be able to get it to grow as a perennial rather than an annual down here, but I’m proud of it for making it this long and still putting out shoots at the base.  The next is a “Taiga” tomato, bred as part of the True North series by Karen Olivier.  I got it as part of a multi-pack special last summer and didn’t try it till this year.  It doesn’t have many fruits set, but I consider it impressive that any of set during our recent heat.  I’ve read that plants that are resilient in cold can do well in heat.  Hopefully I’ll be able to get these to maturity.




It’s official, by the way.  Our area is now in exceptional drought.  We’ve been in drought more often than not (last summer being a notable time when we weren’t) since I’ve lived in Texas.  This may well be the first time that we’ve hit “exceptional here,” though, in my years here.





__





						| U.S. Drought Monitor
					






					droughtmonitor.unl.edu


----------



## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> Only 98º today... We and our plants would be in meltdown mode. It was 50º lower here last night. I won't be starting za'atar anytime soon, but congratulations.  My Aleppo peppers are asking for sweaters.



What do you do with your Aleppo peppers, Begreen?  When I looked them up, everything seems to indicate using them flaked or powdered?  Is that what you do?   Have you put the plants out under plastic, or are they still in your greenhouse?


----------



## Dan Freeman

When I first saw that bowl of potatoes, I thought it was a bowl of ice cream until I read your post!

Today I built the wood base for a small 4 x 3 storage shed for the food forest. I am so tired of walking up and down that hill whenever I need a tool, and since I have 2-3 of most tools, I can keep a set down in the food forest.





Bought a 20 x 16 tarp to cover where I started digging the pond. It poured this morning, and the bit I have already dug out filled with water. I put an inverted garbage can in the middle and stretched the tarp out holding it down with rocks. We are expecting heavy rains again tonight. Hopefully this will help to shed the water away from where I am digging so I can continue, and not have to wait for it to dry up.


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## begreen

DuaeGuttae said:


> What do you do with your Aleppo peppers, Begreen?  When I looked them up, everything seems to indicate using them flaked or powdered?  Is that what you do?   Have you put the plants out under plastic, or are they still in your greenhouse?


Yes, we dry a batch of them and make chili flakes. They are great on pizza. We also blend them up with Fresnos to make a killer pepper sauce that is much better than commercial siracha sauce.


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## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> Yes, we dry a batch of them and make chili flakes. They are great on pizza. We also blend them up with Fresnos to make a killer pepper sauce that is much better than commercial siracha sauce.


Sounds yummy.

Have you heard about the sriracha shortage?  This caught my attention when I was making dinner yesterday.



We are members of a local farm co-op (local meaning probably a 100 mile radius from San Antonio in this case), and each week it seems that we are hearing of farmers who won’t be able to provide their usual products because of the drought this summer.


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## EatenByLimestone

__





						"We Are Teetering On The Edge": Food Shortage Worries Mount As PA Farms "Crushed" By Record Diesel Prices | ZeroHedge
					

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero




					www.zerohedge.com
				





I really hate seeing this type of story.


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## Dan Freeman

Unfortunately, it is not only PA, but farmers across the country. There are going to be tremendous food shortages in the coming months (sooner than later). I hope you all are stocking up while it is available and affordable. We are, and that is also why we started the food forest and tripled our vegetables this season. We plan on canning, dehydrating, and freeze drying everything we don't eat from the garden when picked.


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## EatenByLimestone

We’re putting food up for the winter.   It seems a bit slower than most years, but it’s been colder.


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## Dan Freeman

EatenByLimestone said:


> We’re putting food up for the winter.   It seems a bit slower than most years, but it’s been colder.


That's OK. Every bit helps. The more you can do, the better. Some years are better than others.


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## Dan Freeman

Very hot and humid today. Worked in the greenhouse (yup, that was smart on a day like this!). I tied up all my peppers and a few of my eggplants that were getting tall before they fall over. Fertilized all the plants in the greenhouse.

Peppers - they are a bit "wilty" in this picture.




Eggplants



Tiny Tim Tomatoes



Picked a dozen Tiny Tims. They will go in tonight's salad.


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## EatenByLimestone

It dawned on me this morning that I've hardly used any AC this year.    I only have 10000 btu in downstairs, and 8000 btu upstairs.   My kitchen unit, 6000 btu, and another 5000 btu upstairs haven't been installed yet.   The ones that are in have barely been on.


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## clancey

Your food garden really shows the hard work that you put into it and it is beautiful and save me a tomato just in case mine does not do well...lol  That red one really looks good...Our weather is taking a change this year and we have been "cooler" too and I used my ac only three times with the use of fans blowing air around... I am into other things at these moments but so so glad you people are getting prepared for the food shortage that is coming. Good for you and may God bless everyone of you and keep you all healthy and safe...Pictures are beautiful...clancey


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## Dan Freeman

We've been running our window AC units almost every day for the past month.


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## Woodsplitter67

so heres the garden now after 7 week.. I still have beans coming up.. the zucchini this year are excellent tasting and plants are almost 3ft tall..






this is my lawn


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## begreen

With the additional heat and sunshine, you all are pole-vaulting ahead of us. The high temp today will be around 56º. Low temps for the next 10 days will be around 50º. It's hard to get things moving along strongly in this cool weather. Everything except the peas, broccoli, and lettuce are just coping. The greenhouse cuke is the only shining star. It has been regularly producing winners. Picked this yesterday. The plant is now about 8ft long. The early girl tomato in the greenhouse has some flowers so we may see some fruit by July. Corn is growing slowly but surely. It's about 18" tall now.


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## EatenByLimestone

My tomatoes look like they’re coming along well.   Kale looks good too.  Everything else not so much.   I planted in a different area of the lawn this year and there isn’t as much sun.   Live and learn!


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## clancey

Here are some pictures---drum roll---lol. My tomato and Lettuce and my mint in the one planter plus my other white planter has Parsley and Basil among the grass and I do not really know which is which...Enjoy my ineptness with my failing stamina but I do enjoy this very very small garden--if one could call it that---lol.. The other wooden planter is empty I mix my food in...clancey


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## begreen

The tomato and mint look good. Maybe start some new lettuce in the empty planter.


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## EatenByLimestone

Pinch a leaf off the parsley/basil plants and eat it!  The basil will be very obvious!   *big grin*

Mrs. Clancy, how about a zucchini plant?   They’re pretty popular plantlets to purchase in the garden section of the home improvement stores!   I have a couple just coming up from seed.  There’s still lots of time to get them to grow!


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## clancey

Now why have not I thought of that "tasting" the baby plants--lol...Yea on my next shopping trip I am going to look around at some of their started plants maybe get one or two and more lettuce as well maybe to put in the second wooden planter like bg suggest then I might have lettuce for awhile although I do not like the soft texture maybe get a different variety...I might get a pepper too..thanks everybody...Everything that you people have started just looks great...clancey


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## Dan Freeman

Can't tell what type of lettuce that you have Mrs Clancey from your picture, but it does look like a softer leaf lettuce. Romaine is nice and crispy and grows easily from seed. I've done it many times. A packet will only cost you a couple of bucks, and you'll have seed for a few years. If you stagger the planting, you can have lettuce just about the whole season.


----------



## Dan Freeman

We got the rest of the pond dug down 4-6 inches today, and then raked back all the decaying wood chips around it down to bare soil. Tomorrow, we need to dig up the grass on the one side in the pics. After that, I can start running strings with a line level, so we know where we have to build up the edge, so the pond is level.

After we level the sides, we will dig it down to a 12" level, put in an 18" shelf, then dig it down another 6" or so and put in another 18" shelf, and then finally dig the deepest part down to 30" that will be about 4 feet wide.


----------



## begreen

It finally looks like we are going to have a sunny week and a few days hitting 70. The plants will like that. Here's where our garden is at today. It's about 3-4 weeks behind normal, but ready for some warmth.





The tomatoes have a temporary fencing wrap. They are recovering after 2 deer attacks. 



The potatoes don't seem to mind the cool weather at all. Lettuce and peas are also happy. We'll be harvesting our first sugar snap peas this week.




Last year's cement block bed is looking good considering to weather. Corn & squash are doing well with onions on the perimeter. That's tarragon in the center foreground.


----------



## Dan Freeman

Very nice gardens, and I'm happy to hear your weather may be starting to come around. I see the solar panels in the one pic. Is that setup for your greenhouse, or house in general?


----------



## begreen

Dan Freeman said:


> I see the solar panels in the one pic. Is that setup for your greenhouse, or house in general?


There are two arrays. The other one is pole-mounted behind the greenhouse. They are grid-tied for the house in general.


----------



## begreen

That's looking more like it. Apparently, summer is going to start exactly on time this year.


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## Dan Freeman

We got the foundation down and our little garden shed (4 x 3) built down in the FF today. Now, we won't have to haul tools back and forth from our large tool shed near the house. We can keep an extra set in the FF.


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## EatenByLimestone

We had our first bok choy harvest this evening.   It was so much better than the store bought stuff!


----------



## Dan Freeman

Well, we got the major concrete blocks leveled in place today for the pond. We still need to buy 17 16x8x4 blocks and 33 12x12x2 blocks to finish on top of them and to taper down to the high side of the pond. Any variations will get covered with soil, and then we will drive in 18" rebars behind them and slope soil down behind them to hold them in place.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

I can’t wait to see it finished!   Are you going to widen the deep area?


----------



## Dan Freeman

EatenByLimestone said:


> I can’t wait to see it finished!   Are you going to widen the deep area?


The deepest area will be widened one I dig the shelves in. The deep part will be about 10 x 4 (about that).


----------



## DuaeGuttae

So many pictures of beautiful gardens and plants in the last few days.  Thanks, all, for posting them.  I really enjoy seeing what others are growing (even if it does make me a little envious). 

Yesterday my husband transferred most of the last of our water from our house tanks to our garden tank.  While he was doing that, I cut off twenty feet of pole beans that just couldn’t set pods in this heat and drought.  They were growing and flowering, but there was nothing to harvest and not likely to be anything thoughout July and August.   I hated to do it, but I decided it was better not to use water on them and to concentrate on other crops like okra, sweet potatoes, tomatoes, peppers, and cucumbers which have more hope.

I’ve been enjoying this backyard planter where I transplanted some lemongrass in the top tier, Mexican Mint Marigold (also known as Texas Tarragon) in the front left, and a Balsam flower in front right.  They’ve really done well in a little under two months.  The lemongrass was so tiny when I put it out that you can barely see it in the first photo; now it’s sticking up in front of the window.  Since it likes a lot of heat, we are hoping it will continue to grow and spread in that space.





I’ve also been enjoying the luffa flowers that I see from my windows in the mornings (before we close the blinds all afternoon to keep out the heat and sun).  I have the plants in a cinderblock bed with tall trellises, and they’ve climbed beyond the trellises and tangled together in the corner.  I’m waiting to see if they’ll climb the stucco or go sideways or what.  It’s not the best photo because of reflections of lights and windows, but this is what I see from the window.  I am pleased that there is at least one good-sized luffa growing (and another smaller one).


----------



## Dan Freeman

I always like to see pics of what others are doing, too.

You poor folks in Texas are really getting beaten up this year with the heat and low rain. Glad you have backup water for your garden. I don't remember whether I mentioned it, but I ordered the 550-gallon rain tank last week, but it won't get here for 20-22 weeks! That means the end of October/beginning of November, just in time for the end of the season. 

Here it has been unseasonably cool the past week with daytime temps in the 70's and nighttime temps in the upper 40' and low 50's. Very unusual for this time of year, and not goof for the heat loving vegetables. Feels more like the end of August here in the Pocono Mountains. They are predicting showers and thunderstorms the next three days, so we won't get much done.

What can you use luffa for other than luffa pads? Are there other uses?


----------



## EatenByLimestone

We feel like we're in an April holding pattern.   Nothing is happening on the normal schedule this year.


----------



## Dan Freeman

You got that right, Lime. Crazy weather all over the country.

I got out and worked on my tomato plants this morning, cutting off suckers and attaching new clips as they continue to grow. Saw my first outdoor tomato beginning to get ripe! It is an Early Treat tomato. If it gets red enough to pick before June 30th, it will be the earliest summer ripe tomato I have ever picked (Tiny Tim's in the greenhouse don't count. I have already picked about 20 of them this past week).

I wanted to do some weeding, but it started to spritz, even though the showers aren't supposed to start until later. I didn't feel like getting wet, so I decided to call it a day in the garden

I dragged the large tarp over the pond and put rocks all around it, so if it rains hard today and tomorrow, I won't be working in mud the next time I go back to it.


----------



## begreen

EatenByLimestone said:


> We feel like we're in an April holding pattern.   Nothing is happening on the normal schedule this year.


That's been our situation too, though we are supposed to break out of it starting Thursday. Things are growing, slowly.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> That's been our situation too, though we are supposed to break out of it starting Thursday. Things are growing, slowly.



Glad that you’re finally getting some warmth now that it’s officially astronomical summer.  We had our heat so long before even meteorological summer that I’m ready for fall by now.  I don’t expect to feel that pleasant nip in the air for many long months yet.

@Dan Freeman , I’m growing the luffa precisely for the sponges.  I’d like to use them as my own biodegradable dish scrubbers, though they do work well in the bath, too.  My first priority is the kitchen sink.

My understanding is that some people do eat the very small fruit before the fibers toughen inside.  I’ve heard that it’s even called “Chinese Okra,” though a gardening friend of mine told me he thinks it’s more like a cucumber than okra in his experience of eating it.  I don’t have any plans to eat it, though maybe I should with my lack of production on my cucumbers this year and my inability to keep zucchini alive long enough to flower (squash vine borers).

Congratulations on the tomato, Dan Freeman.  I always love to let them ripen on the plant, but since I’ve moved to Texas I’ve become much more likely to pick them upon first blush or when they’re just halfway ripe to protect them from marauding critters.  (Squirrels steal them, and bird pecks go way up the drier it gets.)  If your weather is going to turn cold at night, it might be better to pick that Early Treat early and let it ripen in a nice warm house instead of subjecting it to cool nights.  You know what refrigeration does to tomato flavor after all. 

@EatenByLimestone , would you believe that I’m making plans this week for putting my Aerogarden seed starter back into action for some fall plants?  I think it’s likely to be more peppers, eggplants, a few tomatoes, and some flowers in any extra spaces.  My other Aerogarden still has kale growing in it.  Even though I say I’m going to take it out, it keeps growing back each time I harvest it, and then I just can’t bring myself to do it even though it doesn’t produce enough for our large family.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

I’m about ready to replant 2 aerogardens.   I just emptied 1 of a new crop of Thai basil some flowers.    

My okra is about half an inch tall now.   I had to wait for it to sprout as I had the little one plant it.   Some of the planting was, um, creative, lol.    I want to put more beans in the rest of the bed.  

We harvested more bok choy tonight.    I think we found a new family favorite.  We harvest it a little different than the stores sell them though.   We cut the exterior leaves off like we do kale, spinach, broccoli, etc.   

Relatives in Houston just sent a thermometer pic of 108F.   I hope they were traveling when they saw that!    I’d like to see some 90s here. We need the insects to take off for business!   It’d also bring bats, etc out.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

EatenByLimestone said:


> I’m about ready to replant 2 aerogardens.   I just emptied 1 of a new crop of Thai basil some flowers.
> 
> My okra is about half an inch tall now.   I had to wait for it to sprout as I had the little one plant it.   Some of the planting was, um, creative, lol.    I want to put more beans in the rest of the bed.
> 
> We harvested more bok choy tonight.    I think we found a new family favorite.  We harvest it a little different than the stores sell them though.   We cut the exterior leaves off like we do kale, spinach, broccoli, etc.
> 
> Relatives in Houston just sent a thermometer pic of 108F.   I hope they were traveling when they saw that!    I’d like to see some 90s here. We need the insects to take off for business!   It’d also bring bats, etc out.



You must be rolling in basil from the sound of it..

It’s great that your daughter planted the okra, even if it was a little more creative than you would have been.

I’ve never grown bok choy but have done Napa cabbage several time.  I do let it head up eventually but also employ the cut-and-come-again method on the outer leaves.

We hit 100 yesterday, and I’m sure glad that wasn’t 108.  I wonder if that number was some sort of “feels like” or heat index number rather than the actual air temperature.  Houston has much more humidity than we do, and I could certainly see the heat index being that high.  (Alternatively a thermometer than gets exposure to too much sun could give a falsely high reading.  It’s very hard for me to place mine to avoid that at all time.  My sun shield involves radiant barrier over a nursery pot hanging over the top, with the whole contraption hanging in the canopy of a small tree under a bigger tree.  I know I’m supposed to avoid trees, but anywhere else I really get falsely high readings. )  Or maybe it really was 108 in Houston, and I’m really glad not to be there.  It’s been quite bad enough here.

I need to head out now while it’s still relatively cool and water my watermelon seedlings and my own newest okra and check the water level in the ollas.   That system has been good for me over the years, but it’s really proving its worth in the extreme heat we’ve been having.


----------



## begreen

This is probably nuts in a strong la Niña year, but I have 3 cantaloupe plants growing. 2 are in the ground and one in a large pot. They are all starting to blossom, so maybe??


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Lol, I planted cantaloupes, I think I camp upon a pack of them for 25c.   Only problem is I don’t know where they went in the ground, they look so much like squash!    I’ll figure it out when they set fruit, but until then…


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## Dan Freeman

begreen said:


> This is probably nuts in a strong la Niña year, but I have 3 cantaloupe plants growing. 2 are in the ground and one in a large pot. They are all starting to blossom, so maybe??
> View attachment 296474


I have cantaloupes in the ground, and they are not growing much at all. Yours look much better than mine.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Mine aren’t doing much either.   But I’ve never grown them before so I really have nothing to compare it to.   The zucchini is small this year though.


----------



## Dan Freeman

Everything seems "slow" this year with all the cool weather.


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## DuaeGuttae

Dan Freeman said:


> Everything seems "slow" this year with all the cool weather.



That one actually really did make me laugh out loud.  I know, y’all up there have all the cool weather because the heat is trapped down here.  I’d send it to you if I could.

I have a possible cantaloupe growing.  It’s just a volunteer from some homemade compost, and I’m guessing it was a seed from a store-bought cantaloupe.  It’s growing in one of my okra beds, and I decided to let it grow as a living mulch as long as it didn’t seem to cause any problems.  So far it hasn’t strangled any okra, and it has been flowering a bunch.  I now have one small fruit developing.  I don’t know if it will be any good, but it’s fun to see in the garden.

I have a volunteer watermelon in another okra bed.  I planted watermelon there last year, so it’s possible that it was a year-old seed germinating, or it could be from compost as well, though that’s less likely, I think.  It’s just beginning to flower, and it had a pretty close call with another digger the night before last (raccoon?).  The plant was intact but some of the roots were exposed.  I’ve just started watermelon seeds in a different bed, and I’m pleased that they all germinated (though one got cut off by a possible cut worm; that was one of the areas where the digger dug, so maybe he ate the cutworms).  It’s been a pretty discouraging gardening year here with very low or no production on many plants.  I’m still trying.


----------



## Dan Freeman

You can send us some of that hot weather, but not too much! I want my cantaloupes to start growing!


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## DuaeGuttae

Dan Freeman said:


> You can send us some of that hot weather, but not too much! I want my cantaloupes to start growing!


I’d be glad to, but …

Thankfully we have a few days of cooler (i.e. just normally hot instead of record-breaking hot) temperatures in store with a slight chance of showers.   We really need the rain.









						Scattered showers and storms around San Antonio Tuesday afternoon
					

Near average temperatures & rain chances return to the forecast.




					www.ksat.com
				




I’m having more problems with diggers in the garden.  They’re ignoring my marshmallows, so probably not a coon like last time.  I need to put the game camera back up.  It took me fifteen gallons of compost this morning till fill in the holes in my raised beds.  Thankfully most of the plants were spared, but one cucumber‘s roots were damaged pretty significantly.  It hadn’t been producing, but I had hopes for some pollination during the cooler spell this week, so I hope it won’t wither up and die instead.

The good news is that the little sprig of an orange tree that got dug up over the winter and had almost all its roots torn off is showing some good growth in its pot on the table on our back deck.  For the longest time it didn’t do anything except sprout below the graft (no good as an orange tree), but just this month it has really taken off.  It has lots of new growth.  It even tried to flower, though we pinched off the bud.  I’m really glad that we’re keeping it in the pot for now because it’s easier for me to keep watered and protected on my deck (though there was a fawn in my backyard this afternoon, and it just wouldn’t go through any of the three gates that I opened for it.  It kept running around wildly and trying to jump through the fence.  Momma was outside circling the yard and stomping her foot. It finally found a gate and left, and I shut those gates as securely as I could because I don’t want the deer back inside.)




The drought has been so discouraging that I get tempted to just stop watering and let everything die, but then I remind myself that we are still eating some good healthy and tasty food from the garden even if it’s not the abundance that I want.  We harvested just over two pounds of potatoes on Saturday and roasted them with a little lamb (the rosemary that I picked from the landscape was even crispy in this heat!).  I used pickling cucumbers and our indoor-grown kale and some homegrown onion to make a nice chopped salad as a side dish.




I still have my indoor lettuce, zucchini, and three tiny za’atar sprouts that are growing inside.  I need my husband’s help in hanging up a light for them.  They’re getting by with what they have, but they’d do better with a better light source.

I’m hoping the three day stretch of cooler weather might allow for some more pollination on my cucumbers, tomatoes, and peppers.  The plants look great, but they need some lower temperatures.


----------



## Dan Freeman

Hope you figure out what is digging in your garden, and that you get some much-needed rain.


----------



## Dan Freeman

Looks like the rain is over and the sun is trying to come out. A bit of blue in the sky. HIGH humidity. I took a walk down to the garden and picked my first 4 (non-Tiny Tim) tomatoes of the season. This is the earliest I have ever had tomatoes by about 3 days. The seeds were started in my greenhouse back around March 20th.

They are Early Treat tomatoes. They are bigger than a golf ball, but smaller than a tennis ball. Hopefully, they will be the first of many tomatoes this season.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Nice!   I have green tomatoes, hopefully they’ll keep ripening now that the heat appears to have hit!


----------



## begreen

Between the deer and the cold we are weeks behind last year's tomato production. Hopefully, we will start seeing some red tomatoes by mid-July.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

Dan Freeman said:


> Hope you figure out what is digging in your garden, and that you get some much-needed rain.


Thanks.

It rained!  It wasn’t a lot, maybe two tenths of an inch, maybe a little less, but it really cooled things off.  The temperature hit 100 again before the rain came, but the rain dropped things down to 73.  The soil in my garden was damp on top but not deeper down, but the leaves of the plants looked perkier for it.  I’m sure they appreciated the break from the intense UV.

The showers were scattered according to the local news, but some places did get up to an inch.  It should remain cooler than it has been tomorrow, and there is the chance for more showers.  It didn’t put a lot in my rain tanks, but it’s more than I had, and I’m very thankful.

We also verified that a big armadillo was digging in the new garden area last night.  There is no sign of a hole under the fence (and the fence goes out a foot horizontally at the base and is buried a bit), and the armadillo really looked big in the photo, so I don’t think it could squeeze through the spaces (mostly 2” x 3”, though one section has 2” X 4”.  (We did witness a baby armadillo squeeze through once, but this looked a lot bigger.). It’s possible that where the gate closes, the armadillo is able to push its way in between the wire of the gate itself and the wire of the fence line at the bottom.  We had the trap at that point last night, though, but the camera was pointed in a different direction.  My husband repositioned things tonight to see if we can get a better idea.  I doubt the armadillo has learned to climb a six-foot fence, but it definitely has been climbing foot-high garden beds.

The camera also caught a few shots of a skunk outside the new garden, but it never showed it inside.  There were, however, smaller holes in our old garden this morning, and the marshmallows in the paths had disappeared, so I wonder if the skunk made its way in there.  It looked small on the camera, but it is hard to tell.  I think the critters are desperate so willing to work to get to a good food source.

I got overheated this morning hauling compost to repair the holes in the garden as the sun was bright, and it heated up fast.  I spent the afternoon inside in some air conditioning, and I started some corn seeds in one of my Aerogardens.  I’m trying cotton balls as a growing medium again.  I used cotton squares to make a tube and put a stretched cotton ball inside each and tucked one corn seeds in toward the top but under some of the cotton ball.  I’ve never transplanted corn before, but I only have three plants remaining of the sixteen that I planted after presprouting the seeds earlier this year, so I want to give it a try.

A little water going into our 1150 gallon rain tank that was very nearly empty.



The luffa plants that usually spend the afternoon wilting in the sun perking up in the rain.  This bed gets some roof runoff because there are no gutters on that part of the house, so it should have extra water from today.



The cotton balls in the Aerogarden.  It will be an interesting experiment.


----------



## Poindexter

Active little thread going here.  Almost as many gardeners as BK owners in that other thread.  Glad I found you.

I have a question about canning.  Specifically, where do store all the darn jars?  We had been paying about $2 each for new jars up here.  Some used canning jars with bands were found at a yard sale for 50 cents each.  You know how that ended.  I am inundated with empty jars.  I have a canner, we have propane, I am happy to fill them with stuff we are going to use - but where do I put them?  On many youtube it appears mason jars should not be stacked one on another so a custom shelf unit with fixed height shelves seems inevitable...

My Amish Paste are doing OK, but I was underwatering.  They are up to 2 quarts of water twice daily now, next feeding July 3 will be mostly fish meal.  Hopefully 18 days later on July 21 I will have blossoms and 48 inch tall plants so I can stop with the nitrogen and feed P, K and Ca.  So far first thing in the morning they are standing tall with no staking or string clips, and the already sprouted side shoots should be able to rest on the first horizontal wires of my cages once they get grown out.

Honestly, and this was a risk, they (the Amish Paste) seem a bit nonchalant about my first frost scheduled for Sept 1. My sister in California loves these for diced recipe ready, salsa and catsup, the three things I really hope to can.  But we don't have any spare days for them to give me ripe fruit between last frost transplant and first frost harvest.  And they are lolligagging.  I would feel a lot better today if they were each about 8 inches taller.

I know I am obsessing on them.  I am pushing the limits on feeding.  I was giving them one gallon once daily with late afternoon leaf curl, but they were both dribbling water out of the bottom of their planters, so I moved to half a gallon twice daily with no drips out the bottom.  I am going to try to move to half a gallon each three times daily with the next feed on July 3, but solstice was last week, winter is coming and these guys need to get a move on.  I just decided to move to half a gallon each three times daily tonight.  I just took the attached, and I still have late afternoon leaf curl even though both have had a full gallon in divided doses with no drips already today.

I know I am rolling the dice on these with my short season (zone 1).  I have a little bit of purple staining on the lowest leaves and the stem, but no outright burning from over feeding.  I was sweating after the first post transplant feeding on June 16th.  I was afraid I may have over fed, but they are doing OK.  For me to get ripe fruit, they need to be doing awesome/ excellent.

Winter is coming.  This is why I stopped reading the Game of Thrones books before the TV series even started.  I have no desire to invade Idaho or Texas, I just want my local ducks in a row.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

I didn't have any luck with cotton in the aerogarden.    I inlet tried it once though.   

A skunk is considered an omnivore, but is meat biased.   I'd be real surprised if he goes after the plants.  He might be after a tasty grub under them though.


----------



## Dan Freeman

DuaeGuttae said:


> Thanks.
> 
> It rained!  It wasn’t a lot, maybe two tenths of an inch, maybe a little less, but it really cooled things off.  The temperature hit 100 again before the rain came, but the rain dropped things down to 73.  The soil in my garden was damp on top but not deeper down, but the leaves of the plants looked perkier for it.  I’m sure they appreciated the break from the intense UV.
> 
> The showers were scattered according to the local news, but some places did get up to an inch.  It should remain cooler than it has been tomorrow, and there is the chance for more showers.  It didn’t put a lot in my rain tanks, but it’s more than I had, and I’m very thankful.
> 
> We also verified that a big armadillo was digging in the new garden area last night.  There is no sign of a hole under the fence (and the fence goes out a foot horizontally at the base and is buried a bit), and the armadillo really looked big in the photo, so I don’t think it could squeeze through the spaces (mostly 2” x 3”, though one section has 2” X 4”.  (We did witness a baby armadillo squeeze through once, but this looked a lot bigger.). It’s possible that where the gate closes, the armadillo is able to push its way in between the wire of the gate itself and the wire of the fence line at the bottom.  We had the trap at that point last night, though, but the camera was pointed in a different direction.  My husband repositioned things tonight to see if we can get a better idea.  I doubt the armadillo has learned to climb a six-foot fence, but it definitely has been climbing foot-high garden beds.
> 
> The camera also caught a few shots of a skunk outside the new garden, but it never showed it inside.  There were, however, smaller holes in our old garden this morning, and the marshmallows in the paths had disappeared, so I wonder if the skunk made its way in there.  It looked small on the camera, but it is hard to tell.  I think the critters are desperate so willing to work to get to a good food source.
> 
> I got overheated this morning hauling compost to repair the holes in the garden as the sun was bright, and it heated up fast.  I spent the afternoon inside in some air conditioning, and I started some corn seeds in one of my Aerogardens.  I’m trying cotton balls as a growing medium again.  I used cotton squares to make a tube and put a stretched cotton ball inside each and tucked one corn seeds in toward the top but under some of the cotton ball.  I’ve never transplanted corn before, but I only have three plants remaining of the sixteen that I planted after presprouting the seeds earlier this year, so I want to give it a try.
> 
> A little water going into our 1150 gallon rain tank that was very nearly empty.
> View attachment 296620
> 
> 
> The luffa plants that usually spend the afternoon wilting in the sun perking up in the rain.  This bed gets some roof runoff because there are no gutters on that part of the house, so it should have extra water from today.
> View attachment 296621
> 
> 
> The cotton balls in the Aerogarden.  It will be an interesting experiment.
> View attachment 296622



I guess 2/10ths is better than nothing. I like that nice big rain tank! (Green with envy...) 

Armadillo! One animal we don't have to contend with. Now, skunks we have; many seen squashed in the middle of the road. I've only ever seen 1 armadillo live and that was about 40 years ago down in Louisiana. 

You guys with your talk of your Aerogardens has raised my curiosity. I can always use another growing method during the winter to keep me from going stark raving mad with all the cold and snow outside.


----------



## Dan Freeman

Poindexter said:


> Active little thread going here.  Almost as many gardeners as BK owners in that other thread.  Glad I found you.
> 
> I have a question about canning.  Specifically, where do store all the darn jars?  We had been paying about $2 each for new jars up here.  Some used canning jars with bands were found at a yard sale for 50 cents each.  You know how that ended.  I am inundated with empty jars.  I have a canner, we have propane, I am happy to fill them with stuff we are going to use - but where do I put them?  On many youtube it appears mason jars should not be stacked one on another so a custom shelf unit with fixed height shelves seems inevitable...
> 
> My Amish Paste are doing OK, but I was underwatering.  They are up to 2 quarts of water twice daily now, next feeding July 3 will be mostly fish meal.  Hopefully 18 days later on July 21 I will have blossoms and 48 inch tall plants so I can stop with the nitrogen and feed P, K and Ca.  So far first thing in the morning they are standing tall with no staking or string clips, and the already sprouted side shoots should be able to rest on the first horizontal wires of my cages once they get grown out.
> 
> Honestly, and this was a risk, they (the Amish Paste) seem a bit nonchalant about my first frost scheduled for Sept 1. My sister in California loves these for diced recipe ready, salsa and catsup, the three things I really hope to can.  But we don't have any spare days for them to give me ripe fruit between last frost transplant and first frost harvest.  And they are lolligagging.  I would feel a lot better today if they were each about 8 inches taller.
> 
> I know I am obsessing on them.  I am pushing the limits on feeding.  I was giving them one gallon once daily with late afternoon leaf curl, but they were both dribbling water out of the bottom of their planters, so I moved to half a gallon twice daily with no drips out the bottom.  I am going to try to move to half a gallon each three times daily with the next feed on July 3, but solstice was last week, winter is coming and these guys need to get a move on.  I just decided to move to half a gallon each three times daily tonight.  I just took the attached, and I still have late afternoon leaf curl even though both have had a full gallon in divided doses with no drips already today.
> 
> I know I am rolling the dice on these with my short season (zone 1).  I have a little bit of purple staining on the lowest leaves and the stem, but no outright burning from over feeding.  I was sweating after the first post transplant feeding on June 16th.  I was afraid I may have over fed, but they are doing OK.  For me to get ripe fruit, they need to be doing awesome/ excellent.
> 
> Winter is coming.  This is why I stopped reading the Game of Thrones books before the TV series even started.  I have no desire to invade Idaho or Texas, I just want my local ducks in a row.
> 
> View attachment 296624



Welcome into the Garden thread Poindexter!

Luckily, a few years back we bought one of those heavy-duty double-sided grocery store shelves from a store going out of business (6 feet high x 8 feet long with adjustable shelves on both sides). We set it up in the basement, and all our canning equipment, empty and full jars fit on it. However, since we bought our dehydrator and freeze dryer, we are not doing as much canning. Wow! $2.00 a pop for new jars! We can get them here for less than a dollar new, but we don't need anymore. Guess everything is more expensive in Alaska because of the shipping costs to get it there.

I have never grown Amish Paste; I usually grow San Marzanos for sauce. We freeze them as they ripen and then process them all at once after the season is over. We have a gazillion of those little 1lb cole slaw/potato/macaroni salad containers. Each one is enough for one meal for the both of us.

I can see why you are pushing the fertilizing limits and stressing. Growing in Fairbanks must be real tough trying to get things to maturity with the very short growing season.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

EatenByLimestone said:


> I didn't have any luck with cotton in the aerogarden.    I inlet tried it once though.
> 
> A skunk is considered an omnivore, but is meat biased.   I'd be real surprised if he goes after the plants.  He might be after a tasty grub under them though.



No, the skunk isn’t going after the plants.  It’s just that when he’s going after grubs, beetles, toads, skinks, or what have you, he often tears up roots or plants.  He also apparently likes marshmallows better than hard boiled egg as he waltzed right into my trap last night, ate the marshmallows, sampled the egg but didn’t eat it, and walked right out without triggering the door.  I tapped the trigger plate lightly this morning, and it sprang shut, so that’s one lightweight or talented skunk.

Here are some of the best photos from the game camera, but there are actually no photos of an animal actually entering the garden.  After this photo of the skunk facing the fence (about to squeeze through), the camera didn’t catch anything till a few hours had passed.  (The date and time stamp are wrong, but it gives an idea of the four hour gap.). The first two photo are from the night before last when there was lots and lots of digging in the garden.  I can see the skunk clearly, but I’m not sure he did the damage.  





I think this next picture is of an armadillo.  There were huge holes in three garden beds two nights ago.  It could be a skunk tail, though, I suppose.  What do you all think?





The next four photos are all from last night.  The camera didn’t capture the skunk entering the garden, but it shows him having a little snack in the trap, then proceeding to the garden beds to dig up his main course.  The holes weren’t as bad this morning as they were yesterday, but I still had onions dislodged and a watermelon seedling (in the other garden area) dug up.






This last photo of the skunk facing the fence was the last one from the overnight hours.  I’m wondering if he just slips in and out through the 2” x 3” holes.


It’s really hard to capture the depth of the digging in these holes, but each one goes a good 8 to 12 inches down.    There wasn’t much hurt in the first spot since it had been dug yesterday as well, so I had already brought in the onions.  I don’t think you can see it in the second photo, but down at the bottom of the hole underneath the watermelon root, there was the shell of a beetle.  I know the skunk isn’t trying to hurt the plants; it’s just a byproduct of his digging.




Because I’m watering my garden, and the rest of the land is so dry, it makes sense that it’s a haven for bugs and beetles, and all sorts of grubs, frogs and toads, lizards and skinks.  I guess I’m just luring the critters to this spot as much as I try to keep them out.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

@Poindexter , here’s a shot of the remnants of some of my canning from last summer.  We are blessed to have a good-sized walk-in panty here in Texas, but it’s not cool storage in the summer.




I can’t remember where I bought these folding wire racks, but I have had them for twenty years or more, and I use them in my kitchen cabinets for dishes and jar storage as well as in the pantry.  They can actually lock together to stack one on top of the other if needed.  They fit both pints and cups, and I haven’t canned much in quarts since I never had a pot big enough for that.  

I was actually able to get a pressure canner on a good sale over the winter and an induction burner to use under it more recently. I had big plans to can lots of tomato products and green beans this summer, but the drought and high heat in Texas have meant that my garden is not producing as it has in years past.  It’s quite discouraging.  

I’m starting more seeds now inside in an attempt to grow some transplants for a fall season, but fall isn’t usually as productive as spring for me, though this spring was pretty much a bust.


----------



## begreen

Poindexter said:


> Honestly, and this was a risk, they (the Amish Paste) seem a bit nonchalant about my first frost scheduled for Sept 1. My sister in California loves these for diced recipe ready, salsa and catsup, the three things I really hope to can. But we don't have any spare days for them to give me ripe fruit between last frost transplant and first frost harvest. And they are lolligagging. I would feel a lot better today if they were each about 8 inches taller.


Amish Paste tomatoes like to take their time. Most paste tomatoes do. 90+ days is not uncommon for them to reach full yield. You might want to check out Jutland which is about 65 days. FWIW, we toss in regular tomatoes (Early Girl, Celebrity, and this year Abraham Lincoln) with our paste tomatoes (Pomidoro Squisto & Blue Beech this year) for a killer sauce. They are baked with garlic, onion, and seasoning, then pureed in the food processor. Easy and delicious.


Poindexter said:


> I have a question about canning. Specifically, where do store all the darn jars?


We store our canned goods in our pit basement. It stays about 55-60º there year-round. They are on a 4 shelf shelving unit.

If you get a chance, can you share some shots of your greenhouse setup?


----------



## EatenByLimestone

We mostly stopped canning when we got the big freezer.    Canning is so much work!     I almost canned some rhubarb marmalade, but didn’t quite get there, lol.


When I really need to catch a skunk and I can’t trap on a path or hole I first use little Debbie stuffed oatmeal cookies.   They’re cheap and skunks can’t resist.   Also good for opossum and raccoons.  

Next sardines.   They are easy to store in a truck and are cheap.   

Finally, if all else fails or I think somebody has trapped or widened up an animal to traps, I’ll stop at KFC for lunch and use the fried chicken bones.

Now your skunk’s behavior is interesting.  He went in the trap, but didn’t step on the pan.   It sounds like someone has caught him before.   Grab a black contractor bag and dump your bait in the bottom.   Then set your trap and slide it in the bag.   Tge bag mimics a den and makes them comfortable.  It’s also dark in there so they can’t see as well.  The bag will concentrate the smell, and put it out of the animal’s reach.  This will often work with a hard to catch animal.    I’ve heard of people placing the bait under the trap and even under the pan.  I haven’t done this.   We’ll, maybe the bait in the bag is under the trap.   Same idea either way.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Little Debbie Oatmeal Creme Pies - 12ct/16.2oz
					

Read reviews and buy Little Debbie Oatmeal Creme Pies - 12ct/16.2oz at Target. Choose from contactless Same Day Delivery, Drive Up and more.




					www.target.com
				




These were only $1.79 when I started trapping.     Careful, there addictive.


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## Poindexter

@begreen , no greenhouse yet.  I started seeds indoors April 3rd, two seeds in each of two clear solo cups.  I drilled a hole in the bottom of each so I could water from below.  They were in the upper level dining room with my wife's plants as seedlings, south facing glass sliding door is in the room.

Once I had two true leaves on all four seedlings, I culled the two slackers, and then buried my more aggressive plant in each solo cup up to its true leaves to get some more root growth going.

Transplanted outdoors June 1.  I cut a clean 55 gallon drum in half to make two 27 gallon planters, and have a moderate quality tomato cage in each one.  In six weeks or so when it starts to cool off, I will use some I don't know what yet to build a frame around each planter and then cover the frame with firewood kiln membrane to make an individual greenhouse over each plant.  Alternatively I could drag the planters into the garage and hammer on them with some grow lights.  Just depends on how far along they are.  I could very well be making the most expensive compost ever this summer.


----------



## begreen

I'd make one greenhouse for the two plants side by side. The more heat storing mass in the greenhouse the better.


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## Poindexter

begreen said:


> FWIW, we toss in regular tomatoes (Early Girl, Celebrity, and this year Abraham Lincoln) with our paste tomatoes (Pomidoro Squisto & Blue Beech this year) for a killer sauce.


Yessir.  I came at this when I got flooded with patients having poor baseline nutrition and undesirable clinical outcomes a couple years ago.

I shoot for my little lambs to have three vegetables daily, one each from the "gimme group" (iceberg, corn, peas, potato), one serving from the leafy green group (broccoli, spinach, parsley, basil, cauliflower counts) and one from the pretty colors group.  That is a major improvement in nutrition for the folks that ended up on my census.

There is no known vegetable in the pretty color group that does well up here.  Red yellow and orange bell peppers, tomato, carrot, purple cabbage, that kind of stuff.  The process drug on and on and on, you lived through it too; and I got pretty focused on tomato.

There are a few varieties of this and that developed at the university level with no doubt some federal assistance that will produce food in climate zone 1, but in general they don't taste as good as the parental lines from down south.

I found all the store bought tomato in town have a countertop life of about 48 hours tops.  The heirloom varieties from Mexico at the co-op market can sometimes last 72 hours.  My mom's tomato, and my grandma's tomato would last a 5 days easy on the kitchen window ledge over the sink, with sun beating down on them, and they tasted better than the current store bought ones too.

I can talk people into eating salsa.  I can talk people into using catsup.  While fooling with the store bought varieties, (red, vine ripened and Roma) I too prefer to mix tomato variety or breed or species or etc in one pot for most things.  But for best flavor and best nutrition, I am convinced one of the tomato in the pot needs to be something I can't buy in stores around here.

EarlyGirl is a variety that keeps coming up for me in search after search and will probably be the next variety I try.  We have had pretty good luck with the SuperSweet 100 cherry tomato up here.  I get the best yield when I have three plants in about a 20 gallon pot and they are competing with each other.  SS100s are fabulous off the vine, just stand at the plant and eat them one at a time, but they don't keep well for me.

Tomato is not a silver bullet for good nutrition.  I can get people that don't like vegetables to eat it (salsa and catsup), but really a variety of colorful vegetables is the better choice.  I saw an organically grown orange bell pepper, a male with only three lobes showing at the base, at Kroger, less than a week ago, for $5.  I am not talking anybody on a fixed income into buying that.  If you love bell peppers you already know the females with four lobes at the base are the sweeter food.


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## Poindexter

@DuaeGuttae , I suspect that little skunk might have gotten a little backrub walking through the rectangular opening in your fence, but he probably didn't need to exhale or "get skinny" to sashay on through.

You might try a single line of chicken wire at ground level to keep the little ones like that out.  I haven't tried it.  The more attractive your garden is, the harder they will work to get through your fence.  With the drought outside your garden, you will probably have more critters on your trail cams soon.


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## EatenByLimestone

Poindexter said:


> @DuaeGuttae , I suspect that little skunk might have gotten a little backrub walking through the rectangular opening in your fence, but he probably didn't need to exhale or "get skinny" to sashay on through.
> 
> You might try a single line of chicken wire at ground level to keep the little ones like that out.  I haven't tried it.  The more attractive your garden is, the harder they will work to get through your fence.  With the drought outside your garden, you will probably have more critters on your trail cams soon.



Blueberries and brambles are coonsidered fruit, but are pretty colorful.   They also mature early.   

Will rhubarb grow up there?  Asparagus? 

You may have best luck growing cherry and grape sized tomatoes.   They tend to set fruit and ripen faster.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

It rained again, and it rained a lot!  We got over an inch in the garden through the shade cloth.  The gutters on the house couldn’t keep up, and my rain tanks all together probably got 1,500 gallons added to them.  Can you hear me singing and shouting for joy?  The whole landscape already looks greener and so refreshed.

We couldn’t set the trap last night because of storms, but the little skunk must have sashayed right through the fence again and decided he wanted the remnants of the hard boiled egg. (Perfect verb, @Poindexter.)  Even though I had left the door closed, he got it out the back.  He didn’t do much digging in that area, though, but went and visited my other garden and dug two deep holes, thankfully where he didn’t disturb too many roots.  He or one of his friends and relations also visited my neighbors’ garden last night which is also fenced like Fort Knox.

I have some really thick poly mesh that I’m thinking of attaching at the base.  I’m wondering if they’ll just climb it, though, to get higher to go into the holes.  We also have some fencing wire we can use, but we can’t cover all six feet of both gardens at this point.

We do plan to try the contractor trash bag over the trap this evening if we can, though we haven’t bought any Oatmeal Creme Pies.  I hope my kids haven’t finished up the marshmallows in the pantry.  I do have lots of chicken bones that I store in the freezer for broth, and I could get some of those out.


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## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> Amish Paste tomatoes like to take their time. Most paste tomatoes do. 90+ days is not uncommon for them to reach full yield. You might want to check out Jutland which is about 65 days. FWIW, we toss in regular tomatoes (Early Girl, Celebrity, and this year Abraham Lincoln) with our paste tomatoes (Pomidoro Squisto & Blue Beech this year) for a killer sauce. They are baked with garlic, onion, and seasoning, then pureed in the food processor. Easy and delicious.
> 
> We store our canned goods in our pit basement. It stays about 55-60º there year-round. They are on a 4 shelf shelving unit.
> 
> If you get a chance, can you share some shots of your greenhouse setup?



I quoted Begreen, but this is really directed at @Poindexter .

I haven’t grown Amish Paste, though I know that many folks who do rave about its qualities for sauce.  I also don’t know Jutland, but I was thinking that choosing much shorter days to maturity would be wise.  Even though we have a huge number of frost free days down here, tomatoes don’t do well in our hottest times, so we really have two short seasons in the spring and the fall.  Cherry tomatoes do best, and larger beefsteaks do the worst.  I’m still on a hunt for the best sauce tomato for me.  

One tomato I have been very pleased with this year is “Taste Patio” from Artisan Seeds.  It’s a small variety, and the tomatoes are the size of chicken eggs.  They’re juicy tomatoes more so than paste tomatoes, but they have produced more abundantly than any of my others, and I have two planted together in a large pot.  I’d rather have to cook down a sauce a little more than try to grow a plant that doesn’t produce in my climate.  I’m not saying that they would be good for you, but I think it would be worth looking around for a quicker maturing variety that still has good flavor.




Here’s a photo of my Taste Patio tomatoes (with a few others mixed in).  I picked them blushing before the rain, so they’re ripening on my counter.  I don’t have enough to make sauce for storing, but I might cook some up for pasta later on.

If you’re interested in pursuing less well-known but well-reviewed varieties that have been bred for cold, you could look up Karen Olivier’s True North Tomatoes.  She has developed at least a couple of lines of tomatoes, and the True North Variety was developed when she lived in Zone 3 in Canada, I think.  She’s now on Vancouver Island, I believe.  The True North Tomatoes have names like Tundra, Taiga, Polaris, and maybe True Colors.  Most are heart-shaped and really meaty by the reports I’ve read.  I’m growing Taiga this year for the first time, and I’m impressed that it has set fruit at all in the horrible heat we’ve been having.

There’s also Mark Oathout (I think) of Mid Valley Garden and Greenhouse in Alaska who developed a tomato called Matsu Express.  I don’t know much about it other than that it is a beefsteak type, but maybe if you can reach out to him, he might have a suggestion for what would do well in your climate.

I wonder also if you could grow your transplants a lot bigger before setting them out after danger of frost has passed.  It took me a while to adjust to that idea down here in Texas, but it has worked for me in years when we’re not in exceptional drought.


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## begreen

Our sauce tomato season is not long either. That is why the Pomodoro Squisito has worked out well for us. It is a san marzano style tomato but more prolific, earlier, and with less blossom end rot. They yield well in about 70 days vs 85 days for the Amish Paste.








						Pomodoro Squisito Sauce Tomato - Territorial Seed Company | Territorial Seed
					

72 days. A true fingertip-kissing sauce tomato! This San Marzano hybrid produces heaps of luscious fruit for all your sauce, ketchup and soup needs. Vigorous, indeterminate plants set heavy clusters of 6-8, elongated deep red fruit with thick meat, a minimal seed cavity and well-developed...




					territorialseed.com
				



We also grow Blue Beech, even though they are 85 day paste tomatoes because the flavor is so good. They were consistently picked out in a taste test when we compared them with Amish Paste and others. The tomatoes are large and low seed and very prolific.

If you like a big slicer tomato that is early,  try Better Boy or if you like a Brandywine style, Burpee's Brandy Boy. We had a 2-pound Brandy Boy tomato one year.


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## Dan Freeman

DuaeGuttae said:


> It rained again, and it rained a lot!  We got over an inch in the garden through the shade cloth.  The gutters on the house couldn’t keep up, and my rain tanks all together probably got 1,500 gallons added to them.  Can you hear me singing and shouting for joy?  The whole landscape already looks greener and so refreshed.
> 
> We couldn’t set the trap last night because of storms, but the little skunk must have sashayed right through the fence again and decided he wanted the remnants of the hard boiled egg. (Perfect verb, @Poindexter.)  Even though I had left the door closed, he got it out the back.  He didn’t do much digging in that area, though, but went and visited my other garden and dug two deep holes, thankfully where he didn’t disturb too many roots.  He or one of his friends and relations also visited my neighbors’ garden last night which is also fenced like Fort Knox.
> 
> I have some really thick poly mesh that I’m thinking of attaching at the base.  I’m wondering if they’ll just climb it, though, to get higher to go into the holes.  We also have some fencing wire we can use, but we can’t cover all six feet of both gardens at this point.
> 
> We do plan to try the contractor trash bag over the trap this evening if we can, though we haven’t bought any Oatmeal Creme Pies.  I hope my kids haven’t finished up the marshmallows in the pantry.  I do have lots of chicken bones that I store in the freezer for broth, and I could get some of those out.


So happy to hear you got a good rainfall!!


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## Dan Freeman

Worked on digging out more of the pond this morning for about 3 hours. Then, I treated the 3 knockout roses with the BioAdvanced Rose and Flower Treatment. Looking forward to seeing how well this product works. I spent 1 1/2 hours watering. After that, I split the rest of the firewood I have on hand. I have almost 1/2 of what we will need for next winter. Waiting for my wood guy to drop off another cord. Totally pooped! I'm sure I'll fall asleep within a short time after dinner.


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## DuaeGuttae

@Poindexter,  I remembered more thoughts about tomatoes while I was handling lunchtime here.  

While cherry tomatoes grow the best for me, I found last summer that my family does not really enjoy salsa made from them.  It was too sweet for us.  We did use them in a fresh pasta sauce that we enjoyed, though.

Fred Hempel of Artisan Seeds (the breeder of the Taste Patio tomato that I mentioned above) works with a lot of restaurants and caterers in his area to develop tomatoes that suit their needs.  Two things that he concentrates on, therefore, are flavor and good shelf life.   I’ve grown Madera cherry tomatoes, and they do keep well.  I’ve not grown his hybrid slicers, but I’ve read good reviews of them.  Every so often his shop runs a special where you can get a variety of packs for a much cheaper price.  That’s how I got several new varieties in including Karen Olivier’s Taiga last summer.  I was excited to try Marzano Fire as a paste tomato this year.  Unfortunately I’m having a particularly bad growing year, and it’s getting a lot of blossom end rot.


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## DuaeGuttae

Dan Freeman said:


> Worked on digging out more of the pond this morning for about 3 hours. Then, I treated the 3 knockout roses with the BioAdvanced Rose and Flower Treatment. Looking forward to seeing how well this product works. I spent 1 1/2 hours watering. After that, I split the rest of the firewood I have on hand. I have almost 1/2 of what we will need for next winter. Waiting for my wood guy to drop off another cord. Totally pooped! I'm sure I'll fall asleep within a short time after dinner.



The past two days I’ve taken naps before dinner after working outside in the mornings.


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## EatenByLimestone

That rain sounds like an incredible Blessing!   Your water tanks were almost empty I think!   Just in time! 


We’re supposed to get some hot weather coming up.   I’m not looking forward to it.   I think everything is well rooted in, but we haven’t had any real heat stress on them yet.


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## begreen

Things are catching up. We are finally seeing a few small green tomatoes forming. Yay! The broccoli harvest is about done. Peas are coming in steadily along with cucumbers. Picked 3 big cukes today, 2 yesterday. More on the way. There are small squashes on the delicata, butternut, and zucchinis. The cantaloupe has lots of blooms and I think I see some female starts there. Corn is about waist high. Some peppers forming, mostly bell style, but also some melrose. Eggplant has flowers. Welcome summer.


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## Dan Freeman

@begreen Looks like you may actually be ahead of us now. While we have had a few ripe tomatoes (6, 3 of which the chipmunks took bites out of), neither any our peas nor our cucumbers are big enough to pick, yet.  No squash (acorn or butternut) yet. No blooms yet on our cantaloupes. Our peppers and eggplants are doing well, but I grow them in the greenhouse. Our onions, beets and turnips are looking good, and I plan to start harvesting some of them in the next 10 days or so. Mornings lately have been in the low 50's, and I don't think we have had an afternoon temperature above 90. Very unusual for it almost being the 4th of July.


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## begreen

That's our normal summer weather. Lows in the 50s and highs in the 70s. We have a bit longer days due to the higher latitude which probably helps out. I got the green beans in late, they are just sprouting out of the ground now. Fortunately, they grow quickly. Carrots are late too, just forming their first true leaves. The tomatoes have recovered enough from the multiple deer mutilations that I am able to start pruning them back a bit.


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## DuaeGuttae

EatenByLimestone said:


> That rain sounds like an incredible Blessing!   Your water tanks were almost empty I think!   Just in time!
> 
> 
> We’re supposed to get some hot weather coming up.   I’m not looking forward to it.   I think everything is well rooted in, but we haven’t had any real heat stress on them yet.



It was a blessing and just in time!  I was going to run out of water this week, and I was going to have to decide whether to let the garden just die or not.  (We do have a community well that allows restricted watering, but it probably wouldn’t have been enough, and it would have moved us to the next billing tier, so I think we really have would have let the garden die.  I’m thankful I’m not faced with that at the moment.)

The skunk came back last night.  We still haven’t gotten a shot of how he enters or leaves the garden, but we get plenty of shots of him digging.  There may have been two skunks last night, or it may have just visited two times hours apart.    I spent a lot of time this morning filling in very deep holes.  I don’t think it even visited our trap where we had put some rotting compost that was full of soldier fly larvae.  I thought it would be very enticing (to a skunk, not to me), I guess we need those Oatmeal Creme Pies.

Here’s a hole by one of my three corn stalks.  I hope it can handle it.  I filled it in with potting soil, because I’m out of aged compost, and there never seems to be enough soil in the beds to replace what was dug out.  (I was particularly upset to find digging like this in my asparagus bed, too.)



Here’s the bed where I have a few onions to harvest and where I plan to transplant the corn that I’m starting inside. You can see why it’s not safe to put seeds in the ground till I’ve dealt with the skunks.  I do have my first few sprouts on the corn, so that’s fun.  I hope to have more than three in this second planting, but there are signs of more coming in the other cotton balls.




Here’s my little indoor garden attempt.  A salad mix that germinated more heavily than I expected.  A zucchini plant, and three tiny za’atar sprouts hiding in the back.  I finally got a stronger light hooked up over them.  All the plants are leggy from not having enough light at the start, but they’re looking fairly happy inside.


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## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> That's our normal summer weather. Lows in the 50s and highs in the 70s. We have a bit longer days due to the higher latitude which probably helps out. I got the green beans in late, they are just sprouting out of the ground now. Fortunately, they grow quickly. Carrots are late too, just forming their first true leaves. The tomatoes have recovered enough from the multiple deer mutilations that I am able to start pruning them back a bit.



Begreen, I’m glad to hear your garden is recovering and taking off.  I’d love more pictures!

Your normal summer weather sounds like our normal early April or late October, just about my favorite times of year down here.


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## begreen

DuaeGuttae said:


> Your normal summer weather sounds like our normal early April or late October, just about my favorite times of year down here.


Yes, Texas in the spring and fall can be quite pleasant. I'm glad you finally got a break from the heat and dry spell.


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## begreen

Here are today's pics. Sunny and 71º. 





Baby cantaloupe forming. Cantaloupes in a container and in the bed. 







First tiny tomatoes, lots of baby squash, coming along. Onions are starting to swell out. Corn will be waist high soon.







Peas, strawberries, tomatoes, peppers, & eggplant are all liking the sun. First harvest of garlic complete. Soft neck next.


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## DuaeGuttae

Absolutely gorgeous, Begreen.  I know you’ve had a hard time with the weather, but those photos don’t show it.  Wow!  Thanks for posting them.


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## begreen

DuaeGuttae said:


> Absolutely gorgeous, Begreen.  I know you’ve had a hard time with the weather, but those photos don’t show it.  Wow!  Thanks for posting them.


Thanks. There are some advantages to a cool start to spring. The deer are not among them.


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## Dan Freeman

Beautiful gardens. Hopefully your weather is finally on the right road, all your hard work will pay off, and you'll have a great harvest.


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## bigealta

BeGreen,, How do you like the taste of that purplish garlic? I got a head of a purplish garlic at the store a few weeks ago and it tasted weird to me. Not sure if it had anything to do with the color (variety) or if something else was off with it?

It made my sauce taste off too so i ended up tossing it.


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## Dan Freeman

So far I've had 9 ripe tomatoes. I have gotten 3, and the chipmunks have gotten 6! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I wouldn't mind it if they ate one, but they love to take bites out of each one, the ones real close to the ground. I picked three more that are orange; I figured I would get them before Alvin and the boys do.

Tonight, I bought 3 small Havahart traps. My brother uses them to catch chipmunks in his garden. Once trapped, he does not release them somewhere else. He gives them each a swimming lesson, but so far none of them have proved to be good swimmers.


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## begreen

bigealta said:


> BeGreen,, How do you like the taste of that purplish garlic? I got a head of a purplish garlic at the store a few weeks ago and it tasted weird to me. Not sure if it had anything to do with the color (variety) or if something else was off with it?
> 
> It made my sauce taste off too so i ended up tossing it.


Love it. I don't know what it is anymore, we have been growing from the previous year's garlic. I remember it had rioja in the name, but that's all. It's strong and a bit peppery, but that is fine. Our white garlic is coming along and will be picked in a few weeks. That's milder garlic.


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## EatenByLimestone

These will take care of chipmunks all day long, cheeeeeeeppppp!









						VICTOR M9 RAT SNAP TRAPS E/T - BOX/12 | Bug Off Pest Control Center
					

Sold in boxes of 12 rat-sized snap traps with extended triggers.




					www.bugoffpccenter.com
				





The problem with trapping chipmunks is you remove the ones there and the ones next door decide to move in.  It never stops.


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## Dan Freeman

Picked a bunch of orange tomatoes today...the low ones before the chipmunks get them. I'll have to let them ripen in the kitchen, but they are never as good as tomatoes that totally ripen on the vine. Also picked peas and string beans that we'll have for dinner tonight.


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## Dan Freeman

EatenByLimestone said:


> These will take care of chipmunks all day long, cheeeeeeeppppp!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VICTOR M9 RAT SNAP TRAPS E/T - BOX/12 | Bug Off Pest Control Center
> 
> 
> Sold in boxes of 12 rat-sized snap traps with extended triggers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bugoffpccenter.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The problem with trapping chipmunks is you remove the ones there and the ones next door decide to move in.  It never stops.



Not sure about that. When I had my gardens in my backyard, I used to use 5-gallon buckets with a rotating pipe drilled through two sides at the top and loaded with peanut butter and sunflower seeds. I would place a ramp going up with a couple of seeds at the top of the ramp. After the chipmunks ate "the bait", they would venture out on the rotating pipe and fall into the water and drown. I found that after a while, I would find no more drowned chipmunks, and my tomatoes stopped having bites taken out of them. It didn't take long to get rid of the chipmunks in the immediate area, and other chipmunks would not take their place.


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## Poindexter

Those of you that have grown Amish Paste, do these look OK?

I posted a pic from about the same spot Monday - post #748/ page 30 this thread- six days ago. 

I feel like I got pretty good growth this week, both plants have about doubled in volume above ground, but even watering 2 quarts each plant three times daily I still have curly leaves pretty much all the time.  I can't find any yellow spots, no purple staining on the stems or leaves.  There are 10 gnats on stem, 8 of those are dead.

I have the determinate variety that should top out around 48 inches height, then blossom, then fruit.  Heavily.  I was gonna re-feed on July 3, tomorrow, but I have decided to wait a couple more days  because the wild fire smoke has been blocking the sun.  Maybe hold off to the 5th or 6th.

Second pic is a typical branch for me, 18" from the crease of my elbow to the tips of my fingers.  On the one hand the branches are kinda droopy, but they are carrying a lot of leaf weight that looks like healthy leaf to me.  

I as going to continue heavy on the next feed with fish meal for nitrogen, with more kelp meal and more green sand.  I am kinda thinking about maybe some calcium nitrate sooner rather than later.  I have a bunch of rock phospate in the bottom of the transplant hole with ongoing bonemeal for P and only a little bit of K in the kelp meal.

Thanks


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## Poindexter

I can't find anything concerning on the individual leaves, just the stems are droopy.  Overall the pair of them do look like tomato plants, but the leaves are a little bit on the freakish side.   And I found a couple whopper leaves like these out at the tips of the lower stems.


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## EatenByLimestone

I have never grown Amish Paste, but I imagine that’s just a trait of the plant.  Maybe exasperated by the heavy feeding and water regimen.


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## EbS-P

My dad and I took azalea cuttings yesterday. Probably 200 split across 6 varieties.   A 2.5 quart potted plant from the big box store goes for 17$.  

In 6 weeks we will repot to 6” pots.  Not sure how we will water 200 pots yet but we will figure that out.  Probably will need 12-18 months the pot.    Not food but definitely will be appreciated in 5 years or so.


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## EatenByLimestone

I know how you’ll water them!
























One at a time!!

Rotflmao


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## begreen

Poindexter said:


> Those of you that have grown Amish Paste, do these look OK?
> 
> I posted a pic from about the same spot Monday - post #748/ page 30 this thread- six days ago.
> 
> I feel like I got pretty good growth this week, both plants have about doubled in volume above ground, but even watering 2 quarts each plant three times daily I still have curly leaves pretty much all the time.  I can't find any yellow spots, no purple staining on the stems or leaves.  There are 10 gnats on stem, 8 of those are dead.
> 
> I have the determinate variety that should top out around 48 inches height, then blossom, then fruit.  Heavily.  I was gonna re-feed on July 3, tomorrow, but I have decided to wait a couple more days  because the wild fire smoke has been blocking the sun.  Maybe hold off to the 5th or 6th.
> 
> Second pic is a typical branch for me, 18" from the crease of my elbow to the tips of my fingers.  On the one hand the branches are kinda droopy, but they are carrying a lot of leaf weight that looks like healthy leaf to me.
> 
> I as going to continue heavy on the next feed with fish meal for nitrogen, with more kelp meal and more green sand.  I am kinda thinking about maybe some calcium nitrate sooner rather than later.  I have a bunch of rock phospate in the bottom of the transplant hole with ongoing bonemeal for P and only a little bit of K in the kelp meal.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> View attachment 296707
> View attachment 296708


I don't see anything alarming. They are being super fed so that may be causing excess leaf growth spurts. Tomato leaves can be quite varied. Here is a picture of our early girl last yr in August. Note the leaves. This plant provided tomatoes in the greenhouse until January.



3 quarts of water 3 times a day seems excessive unless the plants are in sand. Our plants get less than half that. If you burrow your fingers into the soil does it feel damp? If so, don't water. Too much water will damage the roots. I am watering our potted tomatoes once every 3 or so days and about 2-3 quarts at that time.  FWIW, our plants are in smaller containers than your large 25 gallon buckets. Most of our tomatoes are in raised beds, but I have some experimental varieties in pots. When the plants get much larger, they will need more water. You may be able to get away with deep watering, say a gallon or two, once a week. Definitely don't overwater when the plants have mature fruit or it may split. 








						How Often Do You Water Tomato Plants in Garden Beds or Pots?
					

How often do you water tomato plants? It depends on many factors like weather, soil and how you're growing the plants. Read on to learn more!




					savvygardening.com
				




Do the barrels have good drainage?  That is important. Tomatoes don't like soggy soil.


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## Dan Freeman

This morning, after digging and pulling one of our garlic plants, we decided to pull all of them. 51 heads of garlic, some the size of golf balls, but most the size of tennis balls. We will use the largest to plant in August for next year. We have them drying on the front porch in the shade right now.





I also FINALLY got the air conditioner I bought for the cellar last August installed today. We have a dehumidifier in the cellar that keeps the humidity low, but I also want to lower the temperature somewhat since we will be storing our potatoes, beets, and turnips down there this year. The spring, fall, and winter are not a problem as far as temperature, but it can get warm down there in the summer.







I also took these pics today of "volunteer" sunflowers. I imagine they were seeded from one of our bird feeders during the winter. Sometimes the 1st inch or so gets caked because of moisture. One of us must have dumped these seeds into this garden bed over the wall in our backyard.


----------



## begreen

I took a shot of our Blue Beech. The foliage is similar to the Amish Paste. It is in recovery mode from the deer attack, but doing well. It is definitely not suffering from too little watering.


----------



## begreen

The garlic and sunflowers look great. Super healthy roots on them,  Dan.


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## EbS-P

EatenByLimestone said:


> I know how you’ll water them!
> One at a time!!
> 
> Rotflmao


Once they go in pots they will get automatically watered with a sprinkler system.  Or they’ll die.  I have 5 kids so unless it’s set it and forget it it probably is more trouble than it’s worth.  Right now they are on a timer system in their little shady greenhouse.


----------



## clancey

Everything looks just great even with the crazy weather and those garlic's are big and healthy looking. My tomato "bush" is growing but not tomato's as of yet--no yellow flower buds as of yet and I have not seen any "bee's or wasps" this year I guess they are waiting until it gets hotter. The neighbor gave me two kinds of hedges and I really do not know what they are and later I will take some pictures of them...I think one is a boxwood or something..but not sure...Everything looks great including the ones in  the real hot weather down south--been hot on the east and south and its been cooler here..but today it was in the 90's but now it is raining and this is good and cooling it off a bit. Good timing on getting that ac finished...lol  clancey


----------



## Poindexter

Appreciate the various tomato pictures.

I am probably not the first person this far north to try Amish Paste, but online info is sparse.

I do have a dozen quarter inch holes in each of the two planters.  Watering half gallon each three times daily I am getting, total for the day, less than a pint on the patio under both planters combined.  Growth in this phase is much improved, compared to watering two quarts each plant twice daily.

I am not sure how well acclimated the variety is to having 20+ hours of daylight every day.


----------



## Woodsplitter67

So here a pic of the garden today.. tomato plants are between 4 and 5 ft with a couple branches at 6ft.. we picked alot Saturday.. 1 bag  cubanella peppers 1 bag green/red  bell peppers 2 bags steing beans 1/2 bag zucchini.. all grocery size bags. the onion are almost  baseball size now. 3 heads of Roman lettuce.. lots of production out of my sqft.. my sons doing an outstanding job helping out..


----------



## begreen

Wow, that is outstanding.  There's a reason NJ is called the Garden State. We are easily a month behind this year.


----------



## Dan Freeman

We put in a full day of work cutting the grass in the front and back yards.

I also removed one of the 8 x 2 raised beds near the house (lump of raised soil in this pic) and all the river rocks that were between it and the raised bed closest to the house. The raised bed was too rotted to reuse, and the one against the house I have to replace the front 10 x 2. I'll pick it up tomorrow at Lowes or Home Depot. I saved about 6  5-gallon buckets of river rock that we will be able to use in the pond down in the FF.




I picked some more tomatoes today:




And I picked our first "tasting" of Shishito Peppers. 22 in all.


----------



## bigealta

Woodsplitter67 said:


> So here a pic of the garden today.. tomato plants are between 4 and 5 ft with a couple branches at 6ft.. we picked alot Saturday.. 1 bag  cubanella peppers 1 bag green/red  bell peppers 2 bags steing beans 1/2 bag zucchini.. all grocery size bags. the onion are almost  baseball size now. 3 heads of Roman lettuce.. lots of production out of my sqft.. my sons doing an outstanding job helping out..
> 
> View attachment 296755
> View attachment 296756
> View attachment 296757
> View attachment 296758
> View attachment 296759


How has your romaine not bolted yet? my small romaine was already bitter a week ago. in Monmouth county.


----------



## Woodsplitter67

bigealta said:


> How has your romaine not bolted yet? my small romaine was already bitter a week ago. in Monmouth county.


I shaded the lettuce.. I picked the rest as it will get bitter.. Shading will slow it down..  im done with it until September


----------



## clancey

Poindexter said:


> Active little thread going here.  Almost as many gardeners as BK owners in that other thread.  Glad I found you.
> 
> I have a question about canning.  Specifically, where do store all the darn jars?  We had been paying about $2 each for new jars up here.  Some used canning jars with bands were found at a yard sale for 50 cents each.  You know how that ended.  I am inundated with empty jars.  I have a canner, we have propane, I am happy to fill them with stuff we are going to use - but where do I put them?  On many youtube it appears mason jars should not be stacked one on another so a custom shelf unit with fixed height shelves seems inevitable...
> 
> My Amish Paste are doing OK, but I was underwatering.  They are up to 2 quarts of water twice daily now, next feeding July 3 will be mostly fish meal.  Hopefully 18 days later on July 21 I will have blossoms and 48 inch tall plants so I can stop with the nitrogen and feed P, K and Ca.  So far first thing in the morning they are standing tall with no staking or string clips, and the already sprouted side shoots should be able to rest on the first horizontal wires of my cages once they get grown out.
> 
> Honestly, and this was a risk, they (the Amish Paste) seem a bit nonchalant about my first frost scheduled for Sept 1. My sister in California loves these for diced recipe ready, salsa and catsup, the three things I really hope to can.  But we don't have any spare days for them to give me ripe fruit between last frost transplant and first frost harvest.  And they are lolligagging.  I would feel a lot better today if they were each about 8 inches taller.
> 
> I know I am obsessing on them.  I am pushing the limits on feeding.  I was giving them one gallon once daily with late afternoon leaf curl, but they were both dribbling water out of the bottom of their planters, so I moved to half a gallon twice daily with no drips out the bottom.  I am going to try to move to half a gallon each three times daily with the next feed on July 3, but solstice was last week, winter is coming and these guys need to get a move on.  I just decided to move to half a gallon each three times daily tonight.  I just took the attached, and I still have late afternoon leaf curl even though both have had a full gallon in divided doses with no drips already today.
> 
> I know I am rolling the dice on these with my short season (zone 1).  I have a little bit of purple staining on the lowest leaves and the stem, but no outright burning from over feeding.  I was sweating after the first post transplant feeding on June 16th.  I was afraid I may have over fed, but they are doing OK.  For me to get ripe fruit, they need to be doing awesome/ excellent.
> 
> Winter is coming.  This is why I stopped reading the Game of Thrones books before the TV series even started.  I have no desire to invade Idaho or Texas, I just want my local ducks in a row.
> 
> View attachment 296624


If they are almond paste tomato's : What is so special about them--a few of our posters have mentioned them like they are the "worlds best" or something--being sarcastic here--lol...My tomato plants is doing okay but only one flower so far and bushy too--might use my walker to hold it up-lol...Now what about the watering situation poindexter? Do not you have water or something or are you just depending on rain or something--do not understand...(last posting you made)...All your gardens look just wonderful and one more question--"what is bolting"? picture coming of my plants and I am leaving the basil and parsley just go natural among the grass for it looks pretty to me and I will see on the end how much basil or parsley I actually do have--just a experiment here among high grass growing... The last two pictures are the bushes the neighbor gave me? I think one is a box or something (name)..?  clancey


----------



## begreen

Woodsplitter67 said:


> I shaded the lettuce.. I picked the rest as it will get bitter.. Shading will slow it down..  im done with it until September


I've planted the second crop of lettuce along the east side of our green bean trellis. The thought is that it will shade the plants in the afternoon. I also inter-plant lettuce under our tomatoes where it stays shadier.


----------



## Woodsplitter67

begreen said:


> I've planted the second crop of lettuce along the east side of our green bean trellis. The thought is that it will shade the plants in the afternoon. I also inter-plant lettuce under our tomatoes where it stays shadier.



thats smart.. were producing alot right now and my wife has aked us to slow down.. shes been out there a couple times.. she knows there alot.of tomatoes coming her way.. home made gravity.. thats whats up..


----------



## bigealta

Woodsplitter67 said:


> home made gravity.. thats whats up..


yup!


----------



## begreen

Our tomato surge will be late this year. More like September.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> Our tomato surge will be late this year. More like September.


I’m growing some more tomatoes from seed inside right now in the hopes that the new plants will produce for me in September if it’s cooler by then.   We’ve had no surge so far this year, only a trickle, and that may be drying up, too.

Our tomatoes in the garden have been hit by hornworms.  Thankfully we’ve been catching them pretty small the last couple of days, but I’m sure there are more that we’re missing.  I’m planning to get a black light tomorrow and go out in the dark if I have the energy and see if it helps me spot more.

We used up most of our fresh tomatoes today in a sauce to top some polenta that my nine year old made.   I have a few more different ones ripening on the counter, but there aren‘t many more setting in the garden at this point.  I’m eagerly awaiting any sign of blush on my Taiga tomatoes (the big hearts).  They are green when ripe, but I do expect a color change.


----------



## Poindexter

I did trim the first truss off each of my two tomato plants yesterday.  It took me a few days to recognize what they (the flower bearing trusses) were.  Since they appeared in the first 30 days after transplant I went ahead and whacked them.  I am growing the determinant variety, looking for 3-4 feet bush height and only at 24-30 inches tall right now.

Still haven't fed them from scheduled feed in July 3.  They look dry, but they are in damp dirt.  I have backed off the watering to 2 quarts each plant once or twice daily.  Growth has slowed down and they have a LOT of leaf curl.

Wild fire smoke has thinned out a little bit in the last 36 hours or so, my truck was casting a shadow on the road beside me while I was driving around today.  Whichever kind of UV light it is that gets blocked by clouds and wildfire smoke, Amish paste seem to like that kind of UV light.

I will likely go ahead and feed them tomorrow at 21 days since the last feed with some nitrogen, but plenty of K and P and Ca.


----------



## Woodsplitter67

DuaeGuttae said:


> I’m growing some more tomatoes from seed inside right now in the hopes that the new plants will produce for me in September if it’s cooler by then.   We’ve had no surge so far this year, only a trickle, and that may be drying up, too.
> 
> Our tomatoes in the garden have been hit by hornworms.  Thankfully we’ve been catching them pretty small the last couple of days, but I’m sure there are more that we’re missing.  I’m planning to get a black light tomorrow and go out in the dark if I have the energy and see if it helps me spot more.
> 
> We used up most of our fresh tomatoes today in a sauce to top some polenta that my nine year old made.   I have a few more different ones ripening on the counter, but there aren‘t many more setting in the garden at this point.  I’m eagerly awaiting any sign of blush on my Taiga tomatoes (the big hearts).  They are green when ripe, but I do expect a color change.
> 
> View attachment 296817
> View attachment 296818



 I do a fall planting for the greenhouse also. I dont start from seed. I take cuttings off existing plants from the garden. I bring them inside and root them in cups of water. In 2 weeks or so, there ready for the large containers. My cuttings are usually 12 inches and over,  with some  flowers.


----------



## Woodsplitter67

this is 10 days after cuttin.. another 5 days and ill pot them up.. at 15 days your at seedlings stage..


----------



## DuaeGuttae

Woodsplitter67 said:


> this is 10 days after cuttin.. another 5 days and ill pot them up.. at 15 days your at seedlings stage..
> 
> View attachment 296823
> View attachment 296824
> View attachment 296825



Those cuttings are looking great, Woodsplitter67, as were the rest of the photos of your garden that you posted earlier.  I will admit to being envious of the bags of produce you’re pulling in.

I’ve done tomato cuttings before and think it is a wonderful technique.  (Last year I supplied my neighbors with 22 new plants from cuttings, I believe).  I’m only doing two varieties from seed right now.  One of them I don’t have in my garden this year but decided to give it a place for fall.  The other is a variety that I am growing currently, but I saved seeds from it.  I wanted to test the germination of the seeds, so figured I might as well grow them into seedlings while I’m at it.  It sounds odd, but I don’t want my transplants ready too soon this summer.  I need the heat to leave so that I don’t end up with the same pollination problems that I’m having now.

I do have a small Taiga tomato plant growing from a(n accidental) cutting in my garden.  I didn’t even root it in water first.  I just stuck it in the ground right next to one of my ollas, and it’s been staying alive even in the 100 degree heat.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

Poindexter said:


> I did trim the first truss off each of my two tomato plants yesterday.  It took me a few days to recognize what they (the flower bearing trusses) were.  Since they appeared in the first 30 days after transplant I went ahead and whacked them.  I am growing the determinant variety, looking for 3-4 feet bush height and only at 24-30 inches tall right now.
> 
> Still haven't fed them from scheduled feed in July 3.  They look dry, but they are in damp dirt.  I have backed off the watering to 2 quarts each plant once or twice daily.  Growth has slowed down and they have a LOT of leaf curl.
> 
> Wild fire smoke has thinned out a little bit in the last 36 hours or so, my truck was casting a shadow on the road beside me while I was driving around today.  Whichever kind of UV light it is that gets blocked by clouds and wildfire smoke, Amish paste seem to like that kind of UV light.
> 
> I will likely go ahead and feed them tomorrow at 21 days since the last feed with some nitrogen, but plenty of K and P and Ca.



I know that there are different philosophies on this, but since moving to Texas I tend to grow my transplants big.  I even let them flower before I set them out if they want, though I do try to time it so that doesn’t happen.  For determinate varieties, I try not to take off much more than the foliage below the first flower truss.  Last year I had a mix up on varieties and pruned one of my determinates the same way that I would have an indeterminate.  I’m pretty sure that hurt production on that plant for the season.  I did way more than take off one flower truss, though.

Not having any idea that we were going to have record-breaking heat and drought this summer I planted only one determinate variety this year.  That one has done the best for me since it got lots of fruit set before the temperatures were quite so extreme.  I have started more seeds inside for that and another determinate in my collection for fall.  I still have hopes of preserving some tomatoes for the winter.  We’ll see.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

I’ve been pondering fall cucumbers for a while now, and I’ve just decided to try cloning some of my existing suckers into plants.  I’ve never done that before, but @Woodsplitter67 ’s post about tomatoes got me thinking.  I’ll try to give a report on how it goes.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Half of the interest in gardening is trying new things.


----------



## Dan Freeman

You are so right, Limestone.

Long day today. We spent the morning digging more of the new pond, and then I spent about 3 hours splitting wood. I'll sleep well tonight!


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## Poindexter

Saturday morning picture.  I fed on 07-07, good wallop of nitrogen along with P-K and Ca.  Still watering each plant with two quarts of water three times each day. 

Sunrise was 0333 this morning, sunset will be at 18 minutes past midnight tomorrow - so the plants have more time to process this water than they might if they lived somewhere south of here.

Each plant has a small truss started.  I am thinking about pruning the new single truss off, current plant heights are 31 and 33 inches.  Also thinking about pruning off the lowest side branch on each plant.

My thinking is in another week both plants should be well over 36" and I will then let them sprout all the trusses.


----------



## Dan Freeman

Food Forest Pond Progress:

Little by little...using the jackhammer definitely helps break up the clay soil with all the shale in it, but it takes its toll on my shoulders. Then, digging the soil out is not easy since every shovel bit hits rocks.  :grumbling: The summer heat and humidity is not helping!

Here is where we are at as of today:
















After digging today, I screened about 50 gallons of clay dirt through my hardware cloth sifter to get the larger rocks out. I will need to do about another 80-100 gallons. I will use the sifted clay to add back to the pond at about 2" deep to cover the jagged shale before I put down the pond underlayment and then the pond liner.

Tomorrow is supposed to be a bit cooler with less humidity, so I will get another bit done.


----------



## Woodsplitter67

Poindexter said:


> Saturday morning picture.  I fed on 07-07, good wallop of nitrogen along with P-K and Ca.  Still watering each plant with two quarts of water three times each day.
> 
> Sunrise was 0333 this morning, sunset will be at 18 minutes past midnight tomorrow - so the plants have more time to process this water than they might if they lived somewhere south of here.
> 
> Each plant has a small truss started.  I am thinking about pruning the new single truss off, current plant heights are 31 and 33 inches.  Also thinking about pruning off the lowest side branch on each plant.
> 
> My thinking is in another week both plants should be well over 36" and I will then let them sprout all the trusses.
> 
> View attachment 296889



What fertilizer are u using..  whats the n,p,k and.how often


----------



## Poindexter

Woodsplitter67 said:


> What fertilizer are u using..  whats the n,p,k and.how often


I am using fish meal for N, it is labelled  8-6-0.

For Calcium bone meal, labelled 3-15-0, on the back label it is 18% Ca.

I am also feeding Kelp meal, labelled 1-0.1-2.

When I fed on 06-17 I kinda winged it on the measurements based on 25 gallons of soil per plant with all three of those.

For 07-07, I got out a measuring cup.  I used 3/4 cup of all three of those for 20 gallons of dirt, mixed it up in a bowl, and it looked like a LOT, so I split that 2 1/4 cups of fertilizer between the two plants, 1 1/8 cup each plant.

I prepared the soil with PLENTY of Rock Phosphate (0-3-0).  Also in the dirt before the plant, I cultured about a pound of soil bacteria into a  pastuerized gallon water with molasses, in a five gallon bucket with a bunch of pieces of hardwood lump charcoal too small to use in my grill.  Added more water to cover the charcoal, and fed that brew some fish meal and green sand on day three.  Probably a gallon of colonized charcoal in each pot.

I am feeding every two to three weeks, on day 17 since the last feeding if everything looks like growers on Youtube have in Iowa.  My plants haven't looked anything like the Amish Paste tomato on youtube since about June 20th.

I am pretty sure I should prune the new trusses and the bottom two branches to encourage branch growth at the top, but I am not confident I should do that, so I haven't.


----------



## Poindexter

@Dan Freeman , looks to me like you could be almost done digging.  How many more barrow loads of dirt do you think still need to come out?  That's going to be nice to have finished for sure.


----------



## Woodsplitter67

Poindexter said:


> I am using fish meal for N, it is labelled  8-6-0.
> 
> For Calcium bone meal, labelled 3-15-0, on the back label it is 18% Ca.
> 
> I am also feeding Kelp meal, labelled 1-0.1-2.
> 
> When I fed on 06-17 I kinda winged it on the measurements based on 25 gallons of soil per plant with all three of those.
> 
> For 07-07, I got out a measuring cup.  I used 3/4 cup of all three of those for 20 gallons of dirt, mixed it up in a bowl, and it looked like a LOT, so I split that 2 1/4 cups of fertilizer between the two plants, 1 1/8 cup each plant.
> 
> I prepared the soil with PLENTY of Rock Phosphate (0-3-0).  Also in the dirt before the plant, I cultured about a pound of soil bacteria into a  pastuerized gallon water with molasses, in a five gallon bucket with a bunch of pieces of hardwood lump charcoal too small to use in my grill.  Added more water to cover the charcoal, and fed that brew some fish meal and green sand on day three.  Probably a gallon of colonized charcoal in each pot.
> 
> I am feeding every two to three weeks, on day 17 since the last feeding if everything looks like growers on Youtube have in Iowa.  My plants haven't looked anything like the Amish Paste tomato on youtube since about June 20th.
> 
> I am pretty sure I should prune the new trusses and the bottom two branches to encourage branch growth at the top, but I am not confident I should do that, so I haven't.


The reason  Im asking is that your plants are not as green as they could be. They are nitrogen starved. Tomatoes are a vine and a heavy feeder.  You should be feeding every 7 to 10 days but if your doing it this way your nitrogen requirement will be less. Its better to foliar feed this plant also..


----------



## Poindexter

Thanks @Woodsplitter67 

I can certainly give them more nitrogen.

Also, I am pretty sure I found early leaf mold just now, fairly wide spread on both plants.  I went a head and pruned off the new truss and the two lowest branches on each plant.  I will give them some more nitrogen now.

Link that looks the most like my plants: http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=33454


----------



## Woodsplitter67

Poindexter said:


> Thanks @Woodsplitter67
> 
> I can certainly give them more nitrogen.
> 
> Also, I am pretty sure I found early leaf mold just now, fairly wide spread on both plants.  I went a head and pruned off the new truss and the two lowest branches on each plant.  I will give them some more nitrogen now.
> 
> Link that looks the most like my plants: http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=33454
> 
> View attachment 296901
> View attachment 296902


 if you keep your nitrogen levels up youll get less disease. I ues a combination of organic in the garden but use a synthetic fertilizer also.. for the tomatoes im using a cheap 15-30-15 I double the amount of water to make it a 7-15-7 and feed evey 7 to 10 days foliar im using roughly 2.5 gallons on 14 plants. I feed roughly 4 days before a rain so it has time to absorb. This is the cheapest way to feed is to buy a higher analysis fertilizer and cutting it to half or less.


----------



## Dan Freeman

Poindexter said:


> @Dan Freeman , looks to me like you could be almost done digging.  How many more barrow loads of dirt do you think still need to come out?  That's going to be nice to have finished for sure.



I'm down 24 inches on the side with the blocks (from the tops of the blocks), but only down about 12 inches on the other side. I want to go down at least 30 inches on that side, 36 if I don't hit the shale ledge that runs under the area.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

Woodsplitter67 said:


> if you keep your nitrogen levels up youll get less disease. I ues a combination of organic in the garden but use a synthetic fertilizer also.. for the tomatoes im using a cheap 15-30-15 I double the amount of water to make it a 7-15-7 and feed evey 7 to 10 days foliar im using roughly 2.5 gallons on 14 plants. I feed roughly 4 days before a rain so it has time to absorb. This is the cheapest way to feed is to buy a higher analysis fertilizer and cutting it to half or less.



I think Woodsplitter67 is right that you need to be using a water soluble fertilizer on your plants in pots.  I use a lot of meals to amend my garden beds, and I love that method for long-term gardening.   I know you worked on your soil biology in those containers, Poindexter, but plants in containers need more quick feeding, I think.  Especially with the amount of water they’re using with your long days, it may be better to feed them much more consistently but at diluted strength.  I’m definitely not a container expert, but it caught my attention that you seem to be using only meals, and those tend to be longer-term slow-release methods, not what you need for a rush-to-production container tomato.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

EatenByLimestone said:


> Half of the interest in gardening is trying new things.



I have several experiments going on right now:  indoor lettuce, zucchini, and za’atar; cucumber suckers in water;  a ton of sweet potato vines that I grew as slips that were overrunning their planter, so my husband literally dumped them in a low spot in our backyard; amaranth seedlings in cotton balls in the Aerogarden.  So far things are surviving.  Some success will make the experimentation a lot more fun than complete failure.

I’ll try to update the individual experiments as I have time to get pictures.


----------



## Woodsplitter67

DuaeGuttae said:


> I have several experiments going on right now:  indoor lettuce, zucchini, and za’atar; cucumber suckers in water;  a ton of sweet potato vines that I grew as slips that were overrunning their planter, so my husband literally dumped them in a low spot in our backyard; amaranth seedlings in cotton balls in the Aerogarden.  So far things are surviving.  Some success will make the experimentation a lot more fun than complete failure.
> 
> I’ll try to update the individual experiments as I have time to get pictures.



 this sounds interesting.. an update and some pics would be cool.. thanks for all u post.. its an interesting thread we have here


----------



## Woodsplitter67

I've  picking tomatoes since the beginning of july..  this is the earliest iv gotten them. I started my plants at the usual time (beginning of February) but this time I turned up the heat a little warmer at night in the greenhouse, and when I planted the beginning of may they already had some flowers on them. Keeping the greenhouse at 60 degrees at night made a big difference to all the plants this year..


----------



## EatenByLimestone

My wife asked me about getting a small greenhouse a couple evenings ago.   I think she does this to tease me.   Maybe I can make something happen, lol.


----------



## Dan Freeman

EatenByLimestone said:


> My wife asked me about getting a small greenhouse a couple evenings ago.   I think she does this to tease me.   Maybe I can make something happen, lol.



Get a greenhouse! You will love it! They are so much fun. I have had a greenhouse since 2016.


----------



## Dan Freeman

Today we got another 5" dug out of the pond in what will be the deep end. We have about 3 more inches to dig down in the shallow end which will be about 24" deep and 10 more inches to dig down in the deep end which will be about 36" deep.




I was watching a YouTube video last night of a guy who dug a garden pond in his yard by hand. He said it took him from May until August to get it dug. He said he never worked more than 1/2 hour a day, setting in his mind that it would take a while. He said this mindset helped him not to cut corners or settle for a more shallow pond. That's about what we are doing. We have set a goal/limit of 3 wheelbarrows a day of removal when we dig as not to become overwhelmed or overworked. Today, was easier with the cooler temps and low humidity.

I also got another 45 gallons of clay sifted so I now have about 90 gallons sifted that we will use to replace about 2" when we finish digging to cover the exposed shale before we put down the underlayment.




This afternoon, I split about 4 wheelbarrows of firewood. Long workday but rewarding.

Also picked some tomatoes, onions, peppers, beets and turnips today.


----------



## Woodsplitter67

EatenByLimestone said:


> My wife asked me about getting a small greenhouse a couple evenings ago.   I think she does this to tease me.   Maybe I can make something happen, lol.



I custom built mine. My son wanted one, though it would be cool. One month later it was up. There was a little learning curve as its not a completely commercial one. Its upgraded enough to get my plants to winter and againt start  my plants latter part of winter and not kill me on energy..
Put one together.. mine is 5mm polly carb 2x4 and a cheap insulated door from HD..


----------



## DuaeGuttae

Woodsplitter67 said:


> this sounds interesting.. an update and some pics would be cool.. thanks for all u post.. its an interesting thread we have here



Here are some I shot this afternoon.

I went right out on Thursday morning and took some cucumber cuttings.  It’s easy to start cucumbers from seed, but I thought I’d give this a try.  The cuttings are in baby bottles.  The smaller ones are my Alibi Hybrid pickling cucumbers.  They’re blossoming up a storm, but I’m bringing male blossoms from my other variety over to hand pollinate, so I’m hoping I can stick a cutting of the other variety in that bed.

The larger leaves in the larger bottle are Jibai Shimoshirazu, an OP variety that is new to me.  It has been growing and blossoming with tons of male blossoms but only a handful of female blossoms on two plants.  We’ve eaten two cucumbers from one plant, and that’s it.  I think the heat and drought are stressing it enough that it’s not putting its energy into fruit.  When I took the cuttings, they pretty much immediately wilted, and I wasn’t sure that they were going to make it at all.  They’ve really perked back up, though, and so I have some hope.




This is my indoor salad bowl.  I mixed a variety of lettuce seeds with some herb seeds and green onion and radish seeds and sowed them thickly.  I had better germination than I expected.  It’s slow growing, but at least it’s growing. The rectangular planter in the back has my little za’atar sprouts (a Syrian oregano), and my zucchini is growing slowly.  Its not as big as it’s sibling in the garden, but that one has already had squash vine borer eggs laid on it.  I scraped them off, but I’m sure I missed some and will miss others in the future.




The photo below is my Aerogarden tray outside so that the plants get used to some sunlight.  I have it where it will get afternoon shade as it is so miserably hot and bright that I burned a couple tender leaves already.  I have just a few eggplant, pepper, and tomato seeds toward the top in peat sponges.  Some haven’t germinated yet.

The really green stuff is algae growing on the cotton balls I used in the other slots to start some amaranth seedlings.  They germinated and are growing, but the cottonballs seem to be very susceptible to algae growth.  (I had done some corn in my other Aerogarden and ended up planting it out before it was all germinated because of algae on the cotton balls.  What was already sprouted is doing okay.  What hadn’t germinated in the Aerogarden hasn’t come up in my garden either.)



I had been growing kale in the Aerogarden pictured above, but it didn’t produce enough for our family of six, so I took it out to start the other plants.  I’m a sucker for giving plants a chance, though, and I had an empty planter with potting soil in it, so I moved the kale there.  It had really tangled roots that I had to tear to get it out of the Aerogarden, but it seems to have survived and may be starting to show signs of new growth.



These are my sweet potato vines that my husband dumped out in our backyard (near a dead lime tree).  They’re wilted because I didn’t water them this morning before church, and it was already over 100 degrees by the time I got home and got to them.  They were going through gallons every day in my planter, and this location gives them more access to soil and lets me get a hose to them from my rain barrel.  I’m not really looking for a crop (I have slips in the garden).  This is just what was left over from my slip production, and I’m happy to let it keep growing in a barren spot in the yard if they can make it. 




The last photo is my first blushing Taiga tomato.  I picked it yesterday and am giving it a little more time to ripen indoors.  It won’t turn red, just green with pink, but I’m very excited about it.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

Ugh.  My husband tells me that our outdoor thermometer is reading 105 right now, and it shows that we apparently hit 108 some time today.  I’m inside in the air conditioning (thermostat set to 82) with the ceiling fan going.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

It’s 10:30 in the morning and already up to 98 degrees.  I got outside really early and did the watering before it got up to 90 degrees thankfully.

I noticed last night that one of my Alibi cucumber cuttings already has quite visible roots on it.  There may be some bulges on the Jibai type.  Early this morning, therefore, I sneaked the bottles onto the deck in a shady corner.  The did get some direct morning sunshine but should be in shade for the afternoon.  I didn’t want the leaves to soften up (I guess that‘s the opposite of ”hardening off”) too much inside, but I figure that these guys wouldn’t stand a chance in a whole day of sunshine at this point.


----------



## begreen

DuaeGuttae said:


> The rectangular planter in the back has my little za’atar sprouts (a Syrian oregano),


Za'atar is marjoram, but it also describes a Middle-Eastern spice mix.  Here is one recipe:








						All About Za’atar, the Spice Mix That We Can’t Stop Sprinkling
					

What, is it our fault that za'atar goes with just about everything?!?!




					www.bonappetit.com
				




We get this blend from Penzey's Spices. It has the added sumac, a little thyme, and toasted sesame seeds. The sumac gives it a good tang.








						Zatar
					

Popular Middle-Eastern tabletop blend.




					www.penzeys.com
				




I don't know how folks put up with that heat. I love summer and being outdoors, but summer in the Pac NW is very pleasant in comparison and we cool down a lot at night.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> Za'atar is marjoram, but it also describes a Middle-Eastern spice mix.  Here is one recipe:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All About Za’atar, the Spice Mix That We Can’t Stop Sprinkling
> 
> 
> What, is it our fault that za'atar goes with just about everything?!?!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bonappetit.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We get this blend from Penzey's Spices. It has the added sumac, a little thyme, and toasted sesame seeds. The sumac gives it a good tang.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zatar
> 
> 
> Popular Middle-Eastern tabletop blend.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.penzeys.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know how folks put up with that heat. I love summer and being outdoors, but summer in the Pac NW is very pleasant in comparison and we cool down a lot at night.



The Palestinian friend of mine who introduced me to za’atar as an herb and as a delicious spice blend also taught me that her culture tends to name a dish by its primarily ingredient or distinguishing feature.  “Hummus” is just Arabic for ”chickpea,” and so the herb blend za’atar takes its name from the plant za’atar (_origanum Syriacum _)which is the plant I’m trying to grow in my little planter.  I had some that I grew from seed last year, and it flourished outside all last summer and fall, and I used it extensively in my cooking last year.  It died in a winter ice storm, and I haven’t succeeded in getting a big enough one yet to replace it.  I’m glad I have three little starts now.

This same Palestinian friend also introduced me to the idea of eating sumac.  I had never heard of it before and was rather shocked as I just thought of sumac as something rash-producing like poison ivy or oak (and I’m very allergic).  I was kind of scared to try it, but I did, and I loved the tang.  We used to have a big bag of the spice za’atar that my friend’s mother had made and brought when she visited America, but that’s all eaten up now.  I think I might have to ask my friend for her mother’s recipe (if that’s allowed to be shared) or find out what she recommends.  We loved that spice on top of hummus, and I’d love to have it in my cabinet again.

I love being outdoors, but summer wasn’t really my favorite even before I moved to Texas (and I didn’t choose Texas for the climate either; we just went where my husband got a job).  I’m staying indoors right now in this weather, though.  We’re at 104 right now (after hitting 107 before a few clouds popped up).   Fall, winter, and spring tend to be beautiful here, though I miss snowy weather (though we’ve had three good snowstorms in my almost five years here).  I’ve never been to the Pacific Northwest at all, but it looks like a beautiful place.  I’d love to visit there someday.

I cut open my Taiga tomato today to serve on BLT’s for lunch.  It was an excellent, meaty tomato, and made great slices for our sandwiches.







I know I’m inordinately proud of this one tomato, but it has given me a lot of pleasure, so I’m sharing it.


----------



## begreen

Yes! We put za'atar spice mix in and on our hummus too. It's also great for chicken dishes with yogurt and cilantro.

The taiga is interesting and very meaty. It looks like there are very few seeds. How would you compare the flavor and acidity?  It's interesting that it has done well for you. This is considered a northern variety, bred in Canada. The pictures I have seen show some more red streaks in it. I have considered growing it for our shorter season. This may sway me.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

DG, 

Have you looked into drip irrigation?    It may limit water useage and keep the plants supplied better.    I’ve never really looked into it, but we don’t have the same water worries here.


----------



## begreen

DuaeGuttae said:


> I think Woodsplitter67 is right that you need to be using a water soluble fertilizer on your plants in pots.  I use a lot of meals to amend my garden beds, and I love that method for long-term gardening.   I know you worked on your soil biology in those containers, Poindexter, but plants in containers need more quick feeding, I think.  Especially with the amount of water they’re using with your long days, it may be better to feed them much more consistently but at diluted strength.  I’m definitely not a container expert, but it caught my attention that you seem to be using only meals, and those tend to be longer-term slow-release methods, not what you need for a rush-to-production container tomato.


A couple years ago I tried a container tomato in the greenhouse. It was not a great success. The outdoor plants of the same variety did much better. This year I am trying out several dwarf tomato varieties in containers. They are thriving. So far I have not fed them anything but what went into the original soil mix which was composted mulch, miracle grow potting mix, and composted horse manure with Tomato-Tone fertilizer and worm castings added.  So far they have received no other fertilizer. Both were late starts due to our cold spring, but are catching up and in bloom now.  I also have a couple trialing in our raised beds. One, the Russian Purple Dwarf has tomatoes forming.




The dwarf tomato project is a cooperative project between US and Australian growers. I am new to it and got these plants in a trade with another local gardener. If successful, next year I will select my own seeds. There's a good database on varieties that lets one zoom in on desirable characteristics. 




__





						Dwarf Tomato Project – A co-operative venture
					






					www.dwarftomatoproject.net
				



If you want to learn more, here is a recording of a webinar presentation:


----------



## Dan Freeman

After we were labeling all day (jams, salsas, bbq sauces, hot sauces, etc. ..our home biz), I picked some produce.

Left to right...




string beans (left a lot of them out there), shishito peppers, tomatoes, peas, and a cucumber.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> Yes! We put za'atar spice mix in and on our hummus too. It's also great for chicken dishes with yogurt and cilantro.
> 
> The taiga is interesting and very meaty. It looks like there are very few seeds. How would you compare the flavor and acidity?  It's interesting that it has done well for you. This is considered a northern variety, bred in Canada. The pictures I have seen show some more red streaks in it. I have considered growing it for our shorter season. This may sway me.



I exchanged some texts with my Palestinian friend last night about za’atar.  She recommended that I try ordering the spice mix  from a site called zandzdc.com .  She’s had some of their blend at a farm stand and says it’s really good.  (She also doesn’t order lots of za’atar since her mother keeps her supplied, so that’s not to say that some other brand isn’t good also.  This is just what she could recommend to me.)

The Taiga tomato was really delicious on our BLTs, but I don’t consider myself a tomato connoisseur.  It was certainly much more flavorful than a store-bought tomato.  It had more tang than sweetness but not an unpleasant acidity.  We all agreed that it made a great addition to sandwiches.

I don’t have much production on my vines, but the fact that it is producing anything at all this summer strikes me as impressive.  I’ve read that there is some similarity in the way plants protect themselves from cold and heat, and so sometimes a variety bred for cold can endure heat well.  I don’t understand the science of that, but maybe that’s what’s going on in this case.  Karen Olivier suggested to me a while back that the tomatoes might not have many seeds at all.  She said that the fruits that set in cooler weather for her have fewer seeds, and so she was speculating that the same might prove true for setting in hotter weather.  I think the variety is know for few seeds even in more normal conditions.

I harvested a second Taiga today but was really saddened to see that a squirrel had taken a chunk out of it.  
	

		
			
		

		
	



I only have one left at this point.  It’s so hot right now that I’m thinking of chopping the vines way back, leaving just a couple of the lowest suckers to grow out into new vines.  I didn’t do it this morning as the heat was pretty unbearable even early.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

Dan Freeman said:


> After we were labeling all day (jams, salsas, bbq sauces, hot sauces, etc. ..our home biz), I picked some produce.
> 
> Left to right...
> 
> View attachment 296991
> 
> 
> string beans (left a lot of them out there), shishito peppers, tomatoes, peas, and a cucumber.


Beautiful!


----------



## DuaeGuttae

EatenByLimestone said:


> DG,
> 
> Have you looked into drip irrigation?    It may limit water useage and keep the plants supplied better.    I’ve never really looked into it, but we don’t have the same water worries here.



I looked into it when we first moved down here.  I know it’s sort of like the holy grail of irrigation, but several neighbors recommended against it as did even the local extension agent.  It’s because of the high mineral content of the water.  I guess it leads to clogging quite frequently.

I use rain water, of course, but back when I set up the garden I didn’t have a pump.  As the garden has kept expanding, however, it became unreasonable to try to water the whole kit and caboodle at one time without one.  Even with one it does take a lot of time.    I can say, though, that the ollas are doing a good job keeping water available to the plants that are large enough to take advantage of them.  (I’m still watering some seedlings.). What takes time is my having to fill the ollas every second day in this heat.   I’m quite ready for it to end.


----------



## begreen

Dan Freeman said:


> After we were labeling all day (jams, salsas, bbq sauces, hot sauces, etc. ..our home biz), I picked some produce.
> 
> Left to right...
> 
> View attachment 296991
> 
> 
> string beans (left a lot of them out there), shishito peppers, tomatoes, peas, and a cucumber.


Yum, that looks fantastic. We are a long way off from this kind of harvest this year. Well, except for the peas which I just picked the last of this morning. I am surprised yours hung in there in the summer heat.


----------



## Dan Freeman

begreen said:


> Yum, that looks fantastic. We are a long way off from this kind of harvest this year. Well, except for the peas which I just picked the last of this morning. I am surprised yours hung in there in the summer heat.



Me too! But they are still going strong. Lincoln Peas and Super Snappy peas.


----------



## begreen

Dan Freeman said:


> Me too! But they are still going strong. Lincoln Peas and Super Snappy peas.


I read about the Super Snappys. We usually grow Sugar Snaps and eat pod and all. How are the pods on the Super Snappys?


----------



## Dan Freeman

begreen said:


> I read about the Super Snappys. We usually grow Sugar Snaps and eat pod and all. How are the pods on the Super Snappys?


I haven't been eating the pods. I have been giving them to the chickens.


----------



## Poindexter

It is a wrap for me this year, with no harvest other than wisdom.  I will take it.  I went after the leaf mold aggressively with hydrogen peroxide at 1:16 daily after pruning aggressively, stepped up to 1:8, kept losing, and finally just whacked the plants to keep them from polluting the rest of the garden.  My wife is growing grape tomato this year that seem to be leaf mold resistant, but I don't see a good reason to test her plants any further.  With daily hydrogen peroxide treatments I had grey/black spores forming on the undersides of the leaves on my Amish Paste, that lined up good with the light green/ yellow spots on the upper sides of the leaves.

I am planning to run 4 containers next year, two with a leaf mold resistant hybrid like maybe Early Girl, and two more Amish Paste.  Next step for me is to take the two containers I have to the dump, ditch the dirt and run high level disinfection on the containers. If I can get that done fast enough I will see about new dirt and a cover crop of clover to get some nitrate bacteria in the soil this summer, but I am not sure the bacteria will overwinter outdoors.   I may end up doing clover and corn in these two containers next year as a bacteria fixer and leaf mold blocker.

A new to me concept is "Growing Degree Days" at base temp +50dF.  I know all about "Heating Degree Days," Fairbanks has about 13,000 of those annually.  I am not clear on if I get extra credit for having lots of daylight in the summer.  In general, Fairbanks is rated as having 850 growing degree days between last and first frost with 'tomato' in general requiring 1300 growing degree days.  

I think I had a fair shot at bringing the Amish Paste in until the leaf mold got me.  As of July 9 my plants were 30-32 inches tall (36-48 expected for the determinate variety), and they looked nitrogen deprived to @Woodsplitter67 based on a picture on the internet.  First frost Sept one.  And I had the second truss available for pruning on July 9.  The way they were going I think they might have reached 36" about July 20 or so with 41 days left before first frost to make trusses, pollinate, set fruit and ripen fruit.  They might have needed some help in late August, I usually light my wood stove in the 20's of August, but there was hope to have a decent harvest.

Next year, different, 
1) I will stick seeds in the dirt around mid April instead of early April, and keep them indoors until overnight lows are are forecast above +50dF.  We had an overnight low of +43dF on June 1 after I transplanted and I think the cold stress slowed them down; they didn't do jack doodle for about two weeks  after transplant. 
2) Next year I will start spraying them down with with hydrogen peroxide at 1:16 about a week before transplant.  The plants tolerated it fine, even 1:8 for a few days right on the terminal bud, but H2O2 only works on fairly mild infestations.  For me.
3) More nitrogen sooner.  I got nine months to read up on this.  Not sure how many gallons of compost tea I can fit in the garage over the winter, but that is how may gallons I will make and feed.
4) Prune for airflow.  I was trying to keep leaves and branches for root development, probably should have pruned more and sooner. Recently found "the canadian gardener" on you tube.  She is a soil scientist, but doesn't apologize for growing good cannabis either.  Her tomato look pretty desirable.  Next year I will prune in the 'lollipop' manner.
5) I am going to do bacteria inoculated charcoal bits annually.  To me soil is an organism and not a material.  After winter in Alaska, I am starting with a material every May that needs to become an organism in 3-4 weeks.

With gardening out of the way for this summer, I shall undertake canning tomato from Kroger this weekend - God help me.


----------



## Dan Freeman

I guess with your short growing season, everything needs to be near-perfect, and that's a hard thing to pull off. I guess there is always next year. What type of tomatoes will you be canning?


----------



## EatenByLimestone

its possible that spacing them out will help too.   Since tomatoes mostly self poinate keeping them apart will let more wind in between them and dry out the leaves.  This is probably more important with your watering schedule.


----------



## Dan Freeman

EatenByLimestone said:


> its possible that spacing them out will help too.   Since tomatoes mostly self poinate keeping them apart will let more wind in between them and dry out the leaves.  This is probably more important with your watering schedule.



I agree. Spacing further apart will help. The past few years I have started spacing my tomato plants further apart, and I prune heavily. I now prune to a single leader and as they grow, I take all the bottom growth off up to 2 feet above the soil. I will even prune leaves above 2 feet if I think the plants are too thick. It may have cut down somewhat on my tomato production per plant, but where I used to grow about 24 plants, I now grow about 30 plants, so I am still getting about the same number of tomatoes per season, and I haven't had any disease problems since I started doing this.


----------



## begreen

Sorry to hear about the leaf mold Pointdexter. Early Girls are a good bet.  I have been growing them for years. They produce early, taste great, and have good disease resistance. Legend, Oregon Spring, and Stupice are also early varieties. I would forget the Amish Paste and try  Territorial's Pomodoro Squisito for good, disease-resistant paste tomato. You might also try the Taiga that Duae Guttae grew. They were developed in Canada for short-season growing and appear almost seed free, though I have not read up on their disease resistance.


----------



## Dan Freeman

Agree on the Early Girls. You might also want to look into Early Treats. They are disease resistant too and get ripe earlier than the Early Girls.

Today we delivered 128 cases to a u-pick-it farm up around New Paltz, NY. They have been one of our customers for 16 years. We had to take 2 vans. It was about 5 hours round trip.

When we got home, we had to water everything. I picked a gallon bag of string beans, a gallon bag of peas, and 3 cucumbers for our neighbors. Also, gave them a dozen eggs.

I can't believe how fast the clover has spouted and is growing where I planted it just last week.





I bought a 2lb bag to plant in the area of the backyard where we used to have our raised beds since we have moved all of our vegetables down into the Food Forest.


----------



## Dan Freeman

Today, we picked some of our onions (about 1/3). Here is a pic of them with our garlic (still drying) in the background.




We also picked the American Purple Top Turnips and the Detroit Beets. We placed them in large totes with pine wood chips to preserve them down in the cellar.

We are going to plant another round of onions, beets and turnips. When we dig up the 3 raised beds of potatoes...probably another week or so...we are going to plant lettuce, spinach and cabbage in those beds.

Beets



Turnips


----------



## EatenByLimestone

I’ll be finishing up some fencing and bringing a couple empty beds back into production.   I have kale and bok choy plantlets ready to go.  Hopefully I can sneak some bean plants in too.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

@Poindexter, I’m sorry to hear about your tomatoes, but I admire you for harvesting wisdom.  I have a hard time knowing when to call it quits and have been wondering whether my continued watering of many of my garden plants is foolishness this summer.  I did prune back most of my tomatoes to just a few suckers to reduce their needs and let them get a new start for the fall.

I transplanted six little amaranth starts yesterday in an attempt to grow them for greens not grain.  I started these inside on cotton balls, and these were the most developed starts.  I gave the raised bed about 10 gallons of water, and they held up during the day.  We got a huge blessing of a rainstorm last night, so I didn’t have to water today, and the temperature has only hit 95 so far.  The amaranth was looking happy.   I have more on cotton balls outside, but I want it to get some more root development before I put it in the ground.





I checked on my cucumber cuttings this morning.  They had no trouble with the storm for which I’m thankful since it was pretty strong with wind and rain, but the bottles remained upright in their corner.  There are definitely roots forming on most stems.  They tended to be higher up, so I trimmed the stems to let them get lower in the bottles and moved them to more sunshine.  You can see the large leaf looking a bit droopy in the heat.




These are the roots on the cuttings of my Alibi Hybrid, then the roots on the Jibai Shimoshirazu slicer.




I actually placed a seed order yesterday from Sand Hill Preservation Center.  They don’t do online ordering and don’t really advertise their seeds with marketing and hype, but they can be a great source if you know of a particular variety you want to try.  I wanted to try a fall planting of bush beans, and they had the type I wanted, so I ordered other thing from them as well.  I did add two varieties of cucumbers to my order forms, so I may try some from seed in the ground in the next couple of weeks.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

Dan Freeman said:


> Today, we picked some of our onions (about 1/3). Here is a pic of them with our garlic (still drying) in the background.
> 
> View attachment 297047
> 
> 
> We also picked the American Purple Top Turnips and the Detroit Beets. We placed them in large totes with pine wood chips to preserve them down in the cellar.
> 
> We are going to plant another round of onions, beets and turnips. When we dig up the 3 raised beds of potatoes...probably another week or so...we are going to plant lettuce, spinach and cabbage in those beds.
> 
> Beets
> View attachment 297048
> 
> 
> Turnips
> View attachment 297049


Those are looking great.  Do you eat your beet and turnip greens?  I loved those growing up, and most of my kids appreciate beet greens.  They’ve never had turnip greens because I’ve never grown them.

Looking at the beautiful greens hanging down from your onions, I think I’d be out there with scissors cutting some off to dehydrate for onion powder.  Ours that we made earlier in the season has been a huge hit, especially when I add it to homemade mayonnaise.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

EatenByLimestone said:


> I’ll be finishing up some fencing and bringing a couple empty beds back into production.   I have kale and bok choy plantlets ready to go.  Hopefully I can sneak some bean plants in too.


Yum.  Those are all favorites of mine.  The kale that I was growing inside in our Aerogarden seems to have survived its abrupt relocation to an outside planter.  I’m hoping to get a harvest off it before the the cabbage worms find it.


----------



## Dan Freeman

DuaeGuttae said:


> Those are looking great.  Do you eat your beet and turnip greens?  I loved those growing up, and most of my kids appreciate beet greens.  They’ve never had turnip greens because I’ve never grown them.
> 
> Looking at the beautiful greens hanging down from your onions, I think I’d be out there with scissors cutting some off to dehydrate for onion powder.  Ours that we made earlier in the season has been a huge hit, especially when I add it to homemade mayonnaise.


We gave all the greens to the chickens.


----------



## begreen

Garlic Harvest #2 today. Mostly white softneck, but also some rioja that I missed.  We have a lot this year.


----------



## Poindexter

Appreciate the kind words.  I knew going in I might be growing the most expensive compost ever.  Having to take my leaves and stems and dirt to the dump so as to not contaminate my compost pile with leaf mold wasn't actually on my list as a worst possible outcome; so I have actually spent a lot of money and still failed to meet my lowest expectations.  I really do appreciate the support.  My wife has left town for a week because she knows I hate to be thwarted.  As in HATE to be thwarted. I am really  trying to be equanimous about this, but baseline I am pissed.

On sale for $8.46/ pound was wild caught sockeye today, I cleaned out the case on that one and brought home 15 pounds of potato to can as well.

From a nutritional standpoint, the most valuable things I can can that we will eat is antioxidants and fats.  

All the local game meat is very lean, moose and caribou have like zero marbling.  Bear, even in the autumn when they are fat, have fat deposits here and no marbling in the muscle over there.  Local salmon ( I am about 360 air miles from salt water) have swum at least 400 river miles (fasting), when they get here with their fat reserves pretty well used up.  They can still make fertile eggs, but not nearly as nutritious as they were a week ago when they left salt water to start swimming upstream in freshwater.  For salmon wild caught in salt water with all the Omega 3s and so on still in the meat, $8.46/pound is a steal, local.

Local we can grow leafy greens, white potato with white/yellow flesh, white potato with red colored flesh and white potato with purple colored flesh.  For optimal nutrition you want as many different colors as you can get on your plate when you come back from the salad bar, and many of you are growing exactly that.  I am not going to go all Poindexter on the various antioxidant chemicals that make the various colors.  I am, with extremely low expectations, going to can some Kroger hothouse tomato in the next few weeks.

I am going to grow a good harvest of canning tomato in Fairbanks.  I don't know what year it will be.  I don't know what variety it will be.  It seems like, on average, our last frost is earlier, our first frost is later and our summer is hotter year after year since I got here in 2008.  Whether it is my increasing skill or the warming climate that gets me over the line is yet to be seen.

/highjack, I will be in the canning thread.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Why are you canning potatoes?   They can last in a cool area just fine all winter long.   Do they have better freeze protection?   

Last week I was on a road trip.   As I drove around Glacier NP, I saw lots of huckleberry plants and wondered if they’d survive where you are.   Given the altitude, glaciers, etc, it may be the closest the lower 48 is to your climate.


----------



## Dan Freeman

Today's tomato harvest:




And we harvested our potatoes in one of the three raised beds. The Russet and Red Potatoes aren't ready yet, but the Yellow Potatoes were, so we dug them up today. 54 pounds from an 8 x 4 raised garden bed. As we do with all our root vegetables, we have them drying on the front porch.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

I got my fence finished and then planted my kale and bok choy plantlets.  I noticed my oldest bok choy plants were starting to bolt.  I didn’t know they would do that.   We’ll see how they handle topping.


----------



## clancey

Freeman--everything looks wonderful and does anybody grow those great big potato's for baking? Looked up bolting Lime and my lettuce has bolted..Here is a article on it..clancey








						Plant Bolting: Why It Happens and What to Do About It
					

"Bolting" applies to certain vegetables and is a problem for gardeners. Learn what it is, how to identify it, why it happens, and how to avoid it.




					www.thespruce.com


----------



## Dan Freeman

clancey said:


> Freeman--everything looks wonderful and does anybody grow those great big potato's for baking? Looked up bolting Lime and my lettuce has bolted..Here is a article on it..clancey
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Plant Bolting: Why It Happens and What to Do About It
> 
> 
> "Bolting" applies to certain vegetables and is a problem for gardeners. Learn what it is, how to identify it, why it happens, and how to avoid it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thespruce.com



These potatoes are best for things like mashing or roasting. We do have a raised bed of Russets that are for baking, but they won't be ready for a couple of more weeks.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

We like to grow Yukon Gold potatoes.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

I was shaking the vanilla extract that I made last Thanksgiving and glanced over at my wife who was making pesto.    I got to thinking, I wish she used more garlic.   

Then it hit me, I could probably make garlic extract like I make vanilla extract.    

A couple of drops could really up the garlic taste on pesto, pizza, toast, your kids cereal when she isn’t looking…

We’ll maybe not the cereal.   

What do you guys think?   Crazy idea?  Worth exploring for the cost of a head of garlic and some vodka from the basement?


----------



## DuaeGuttae

EatenByLimestone said:


> I was shaking the vanilla extract that I made last Thanksgiving and glanced over at my wife who was making pesto.    I got to thinking, I wish she used more garlic.
> 
> Then it hit me, I could probably make garlic extract like I make vanilla extract.
> 
> A couple of drops could really up the garlic taste on pesto, pizza, toast, your kids cereal when she isn’t looking…
> 
> We’ll maybe not the cereal.
> 
> What do you guys think?   Crazy idea?  Worth exploring for the cost of a head of garlic and some vodka from the basement?



I’m really glad you didn’t get to thinking about adding vanilla extract to the pesto!

Why not just press a clove of garlic into your serving of the pesto, or on your slice of pizza or toast?  (We’ll just pass over that whole kid’s cereal thing.)

I have no idea if garlic would work in Vodka.  I’d try it on a small scale if I tried it at all since a whole bottle of Vodka is expensive.  (We make our own vanilla extract, too, and we do it a whole large bottle at a time.) I’ve made small quantities of garlic oil by infusing garlic in olive oil.  We don’t keep that long-term, though.

I now have a hankering for garlic bread.  Oh well.  There’s no bread in the house at the moment.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

Yesterday our forecast high was significantly lower than it has been (and we indeed only got up to 96).  I also had plans to do a regular watering of the garden, so I took the opportunity to transplant the rest of my amaranth as well as a few very small tomato, pepper, and eggplant seedlings.  I hardened them off still in the Aerogarden, and they went straight from there to soil.  It’s not, perhaps, the best practice, but it’s hard for me to keep little tiny potted up seedlings from drying out in intense heat and sun, so it’s what I judged best for now.  They survived their first day out, and I gave them another good watering can watering this morning.  They’ll get watered every day for their first week at least; then I’ll see how they do going a bit longer.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

It’s watering time here too.   The heat is *only * high 80s /low 90s, but it’s tough on plants.   I see the peppers go from looking great mid day to wilting a bit as the sun bakes them.   They must be happy though. They’re bigger than most of the gardens I see at work.


----------



## clancey

I feel for you in Texas--what a "hot stage of temperature"--hope you all find a way to keep cool. Today here it was 91 degrees and hot weather "on the way"...all next week so they say...clancey


----------



## begreen

Final garlic harvest. 



j/k- that's in Italy


----------



## Dan Freeman

begreen said:


> Final garlic harvest.
> View attachment 297144
> 
> 
> j/k- that's in Italy


LOL


----------



## begreen

Dan Freeman said:


> LOL


You can probably smell that harvest a mile away.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Just right for a big bowl of pesto!


----------



## bigealta

A garlic Holzhausen


----------



## Dan Freeman

We moved 72 concrete blocks out of the old, raised garden area in our backyard today. It was hard work in this heat (90+). In all, we moved 73 blocks, but we had to lift each one 3 times (pick each out to wash it off, put each on a hand truck, and then lift each off the hand truck to pile them in a new area). About 8000 pounds of lifting! We have about 28 more to do tomorrow, about another 3000 pounds worth (lifting each 3x). Once finished, we can grade that area and plant clover. It will make our backyard area larger by about 375 square feet.

This is the area we are working on. The blocks are in the back against the sedum, and along the left side.


----------



## begreen

That's a nice backyard.


----------



## clancey

Freeman your work is sure making progress and very beautiful as well. Your designing is wonderful not including that gate--lol...Here my tomato plant is wide and bushy and large enough but so far only two yellow flowers on it..My yard has turned into a grasshopper paradise--thousands of them and maybe much more--they came from "nowhere" but they are here now...My lettuce went to seed and I stepped on the stem so I just cut it off but the mint is doing well in the container and the second container I am leaving it go just natural and its very pretty with such high grass and its nice to investigate to see what different kinds of weeds and plants are in there--of course they are crowding out my basil and parsley but we will see how it progresses--I am enjoying seeing it grow and discovering new weeds with pretty flowers--fine farmer I am--lol...All your gardens look good and seems to be paying off with food real well.  It's been hot but not as bad as Texas (108-114) and next week will be cooler maybe even sooner if the

 rain comes for you in Texas and you sure do need rain.. Be careful working out in the heat especially heavy work for it will get to you and really weakens your system so pace it better but its pretty --looking good everybody...Keep cool the best you can dg and begreen that garlic is amazing--its fun to see...Work harder lime and poindexter the only canning I ever did was to help with tomato's long ago and we put them in jars and I think we boiled them first--can't remember...The warmer temperatures in Alaska is doing you good and keep eating--especially vitamin c and d...Bigealta you named that garlic patch good---"a garlic holzhausen"..Lime that picture is beautiful of the mountains and lake...Thanks everyone and just keep plugging away at your wonderful work..clancey


----------



## Dan Freeman

Woke up this morning to find all 5 of our chickens dead. I am thinking a fisher cat since the only way it could have gotten in is the 2" space between the corrugated roof and frame, perhaps in the new section I built on a few months ago where the corrugated Ondura roofing has a bit of give to it. I'll figure out a way to secure those small openings, and we'll get some more chickens.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Fisher isn’t going to fit through 2 inches.   Might be a weasel or mink though.   Same family, but with Napoleon Syndrome.


----------



## Dan Freeman

One of the chickens had all of its insides eaten out from the back. That's what made me think it might be a fisher cat. Looks like the kill blow on each was to the neck. When I went to remove them, one was still alive but badly injured, so I had to put her down. I did find 2 little tufts of fur on the wire in one place just below the front corrugated roof. Probably either the entrance and/or the exit area. We'll clean out the entire coop and run, seal up between the frame and corrugated roof, and get some more chickens.

Not our first killing. We used to have a good number of killings with our large flock back in the 2000teens from hawks and foxes, but we used to let them free range. Then, one night a racoon forced open the electric door and killed all of them within minutes. These present chickens have never been let out of the run. I thought that small space at the roof would not be a factor; it's been like that for 2+ years; I was wrong.


----------



## clancey

Sorry about the chickens and do you have "rats" where you are for they can sure fit into a 2 inch space. Like you say need to tighten up the chicken coop. Here my worry is raccoons for once in awhile one will go through the area and they are diggers and I have concrete footings under the soil where the 1/4 inch hard wire connects..Weasels are another animals that can get into small spaces. You will have better luck when you secure the coop...clancey


----------



## Dan Freeman

Luckily, no rats Mrs. Clancey.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Look up weasel box if you’re looking to trap.


----------



## Dan Freeman

EatenByLimestone said:


> Look up weasel box if you’re looking to trap.



Have no interest in trapping the weasels...just have an interest in beefing up my chicken run.

This afternoon, I cleaned out the coop and run. Gave everything a good scrubbing and wash down. Tomorrow, I am going to pick up a few boards from Lowes to close up those small spaces at the top and then get more chickens.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

@Dan Freeman, I’m sorry about your chickens.  I’m sure that was a hard sight to see.

@begreen, your real garlic harvest looked beautiful (and your Italian picture was quite something, too).  I’m glad your gardening season has finally kicked into higher gear.

My amaranth experiment is turning out well.  The transplants in the garden are settling in and beginning to grow.  I’m excited about that potential crop.

My cucumber suckers aren’t transitioning so well.  They were hardened off, but the roots were not all developed when I put them in.  Some have obviously died; others are hanging in there.  We’ll see how it goes in upcoming days. It’s pretty hot here by afternoon, and the plants only get water in the morning.  

My slicing cucumbers haven’t been at all prolific this year, but I harvested another one today for our lunchtime salad.  If I’ve kept track correctly, I’ve now at least paid for the pack of seeds with cucumbers that I haven’t bought from the store.  The vines are still in good shape with more (mostly male) flowers.  I hope they’ll produce more, even if only a little at a time, in coming weeks.


----------



## begreen

Well, this was a pleasant surprise. I moved my container cantaloupe to the larger raised bed yesterday and found this little baby hiding. 



Corn is now taller than I am and tasseling nicely. The forecast is for nighttime temps to finally break 60 degrees. That should make the tomatoes, peppers, and eggplant happier. I have been dealing with some powdery mildew on squash leaves due to the cool, dewy nights.


----------



## begreen

And today I pulled an onion to check it out. It weighed in at 22+ oz. The Poniente cucumbers in the greenhouse are going crazy. We have about a dozen on the plant currently with many over 12" long.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

We're having quite a heatwave here.  98 and sunny yesterday.   When I watered tge garden, some of the recently transplanted bok choy was trying to impersonate a jellyfish on land.  It  isn't not make it.  The kale next to it said, bring the heat, I'm fine!

We still don't have all of the air conditioning in the windows yet.   The wife decided she wanted to look out the kitchen window this year.   So our downstairs is being cooled by 2 5000btu window units and upstairs is an 8000 unit.   She was working from home yesterday. I walked into tge house around noon and only 1 5000btu window unit was on. There was also a plate of cinnamon buns cooling on tge stove.    She grew up in Houston and the heat wasn't bothering her, lol.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

Wow, @begreen, that cantaloupe, onion, and your cucumbers all look fantastic!  What variety is the onion?

@EatenByLimestone , I’m sorry about your bok choy.  Glad your kale is holding up.


----------



## begreen

DuaeGuttae said:


> Wow, @begreen, that cantaloupe, onion, and your cucumbers all look fantastic! What variety is the onion?


Thanks. We are going to start giving away cukes to the neighbors. They are really producing. 
Normally I grow Copra yellow onions but I think these were Ringmaster because that was what our nursery ordered. Copra starts are hard to find now. Next year I go back to ordering directly from Dixondale Farms and may try Pattersons for their good keeping ability.


----------



## begreen

Looking good for August eggplants I hope.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> Looking good for August eggplants I hope.
> View attachment 297275


Beautiful, Begreen.  Those are such vivid flowers, much darker than the ones of my Black Beauty plants.  What variety is it?  (That’s always what I ask you, isn’t it?)

My eggplants down here are getting hit hard by flea beetles.  I don’t usually see them, but I see the damage they leave behind on the leaves.  Unfortunately I think they’ve damaged some of my recent transplants enough (a few tomatoes and an eggplant seedling) that they aren’t going to be able to pull through.  We’ll see.

My three spring-planted eggplants got pruned back a couple of weeks ago when I took down a lot of tomato foliage.  They’ve put out new growth and more flowers since then, and they’re big enough to stand up to the flea beetles at this point.  I’m just not sure if they’ll set much fruit in our continued heat.


----------



## begreen

I'll have to double check but I think that plant is a black beauty. The darkest flowers and leaves are on our ichiban. We've had bad flea beetle invasion in some years, but this one is not too bad so far. We'll see. They are usually more of an issue in spring with young plants. I have basil interplanted with them so maybe that is helping repel the little buggers? Have you tried yellow sticky traps for them?








						How to Get Rid of Flea Beetles in the Organic Garden | Planet Natural
					

Many species of flea beetles are found throughout the U.S. They are small jumping insects commonly found in home gardens early in the growing season.



					www.planetnatural.com
				




90º weather coming next week. I'll be putting the shade cloth up on the greenhouse Monday.


----------



## Dan Freeman

Very hot and humid today, but we worked outside for about 4 hours.

Here are a couple of pics of the new chickens. They are camera shy...and I don't blame them. They were packed into a metal trailer this morning in Lancaster, PA and transported to Sussex County, PA. Then, our 5 were put in cardboard boxes to make the trip to our place. They heads are probably spinning. It will take them a few days to acclimate to their new run/coop.





Today's tomato and cuke harvest.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> I'll have to double check but I think that plant is a black beauty. The darkest flowers and leaves are on our ichiban. We've had bad flea beetle invasion in some years, but this one is not too bad so far. We'll see. They are usually more of an issue in spring with young plants. I have basil interplanted with them so maybe that is helping repel the little buggers? Have you tried yellow sticky traps for them?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How to Get Rid of Flea Beetles in the Organic Garden | Planet Natural
> 
> 
> Many species of flea beetles are found throughout the U.S. They are small jumping insects commonly found in home gardens early in the growing season.
> 
> 
> 
> www.planetnatural.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 90º weather coming next week. I'll be putting the shade cloth up on the greenhouse Monday.



My Black Beauty is much lighter colored on the stems and flowers, but I’ve wondered if I don’t have some off-types in my seeds because I grew some pretty lavender eggplants last year from that pack.   I’ve never seen such brilliant eggplant flowers as the ones in your pictures, but I haven’t seen too many different eggplant varieties either.




I’ve used yellow sticky traps in my garden before, but I tend to keep them more for my inside plants than my outside ones.  I wasn’t thinking about flea beetles when I put my small transplants out,  but they were sure thinking about those tender new leaves, and they feasted immediately and thoroughly.  I don’t think the baby eggplant will be able to recover.  The larger plants seem to handle the damage okay.

My amaranth is still growing well, but I had a couple more plants taken out by cutworms this morning.  I put the cutoff tops in a little vase of water on my dining room table to see if they’ll perk back up or possibly even root.  My mother has spent years pulling pigweed out of her garden, so she’s amused that I’m trying to grow this on purpose.  At this point I’m really just trying to find something that will produce in this summer’s heat and drought, and this looks to be doing well so far.


----------



## begreen

DuaeGuttae said:


> My Black Beauty is much lighter colored on the stems and flowers, but I’ve wondered if I don’t have some off-types in my seeds because I grew some pretty lavender eggplants last year from that pack. I’ve never seen such brilliant eggplant flowers as the ones in your pictures, but I haven’t seen too many different eggplant varieties either.


I went out and checked, that was an Ichiban. Your plant is what our Black Beauty and our Galina look like too.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> I went out and checked, that was an Ichiban. Your plant is what our Black Beauty and our Galina look like too.


Well, it’s just a gorgeous plant.  I hope it gives you equally gorgeous and tasty fruit.

I took a chance and sowed one more eggplant seed inside today.  If it germinates, I’ll try to grow out a large transplant this time.  I’m ready for summer to end (at least the heat part of it) and would enjoy a cool fall, but I can’t really count on that down here.  It means that I actually do have a chance for eggplant, even if I really should have started sooner.  I think I’ll put it in a pot so that I can move it indoors if I want to.  

I thought about starting some cooler weather crops inside as well and decided to hold off on that for a bit.  I need to reexamine the garden space to figure out where I can put things and what has priority.


----------



## begreen

The heat is on and the garden is producing. The Ringmaster crop is a bit overwhelming. Most are over a pound with some 1.5 lb monsters in there. All told there are about 36 lbs of onions which would be ok if they were good for storing, but these may only last 3-4 months. We will need to get creative with them. 





Peppers are starting to turn red




And the first eggplants are peeking out.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

Absolutely beautiful, Begreen!

If you’re not going to eat all the onions fresh, I’d start slicing and dicing them for the freezer.  A food processor can really help in that task to do a bunch at once.  I find it really nice to have onions pre-diced in the freezer for winter soups, stews, and sauces.  I also love mixing up pre-measured batches of mirepoix, but sometimes I just freeze onions, carrots, and celery separately.

I can’t remember if you have a dehydrator.  I think you do.  You could consider running some of the greens or even slices of onion through for a homemade onion powder.  We have loved what we made earlier this year.  (We used the bolted onions for this.)

I still have one set of onions in my garden.  They’re Red Creole short-day onions and should have finished a couple of months ago.  I really don’t know what happened with them, but they haven’t bulbed up much, and their necks aren’t soft yet.  My Texas Early White and Texas Legend were also smaller than I would have liked (I blame way too much roller-coaster winter weather and drought and heat), but they softened at the neck when they were done.  I’m really mystified as to why this last batch just sits there and doesn’t grow and doesn’t droop.  I’ve pulled the ones that bolted and some others just to make room for sweet potatoes.  I keep leaving some, though, just to see what will happen.

And because I have to ask, what varieties are the peppers?


----------



## begreen

How do you make the powder after dehydration? Do you food process them?


----------



## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> How do you make the powder after dehydration? Do you food process them?



I honestly don’t remember, but my guess is that I used a coffee grinder that we own that has never been used for coffee.  We use it for grinding spices.  It may be that I ground the large mass of material first in a food processor or blender to make it smaller and then used the coffee grinder for the final processing.  The coffee grinder gives the fine powder consistency, but it does take some time to process in batches.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

My amaranth keeps growing.  I’ve harvested leaves off them a couple of times, not for a whole dish but to add to other vegetables.  Cardboard collars seem to be helping to protect them against cutworms.




My first luffa seems to be drying down.  At least I hope that what’s going on.



Two days ago I seeded some Sunn Hemp into an empty area where I had hoped to have corn, but since a number of my corn seeds didn’t germinate, I don’t in this section.  Yesterday I noticed signs of green at the surface, and today the seeds are definitely beginning to sprout.  I’m growing this tropical legume as a quick cover crop, and I’m hoping for some good greenery in a couple of months either to chop and drop in a needy bed or into a compost bin.  It’s nice to see new stuff growing at this time of year.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

begreen said:


> Looking good for August eggplants I hope.
> View attachment 297275



Its been years since I grew eggplants.   I forgot how much they looked like nightshade!


----------



## EatenByLimestone

The first round of tomatoes are being picked now.   They're starting to pile up on my kitchen table.   I mentioned to the wife we should start freezing soon.  She's still enjoying eating them as snacks.   Can't argue with that!


----------



## Dan Freeman

Hot and humid today. A chance of some rain this afternoon; a better chance tomorrow afternoon. Everything is so dry. We made a huge baking dish of eggplant parm from a bunch of our eggplants, and I picked about 10 lbs. of tomatoes.


----------



## begreen

Our last rain was in June and none is expected here.


----------



## Dan Freeman

Here is the eggplant parm we made in a 13 x 9 baking dish.




And the 10 pounds of tomatoes I picked today.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

@Begreen’s pictures of eggplant gave me a craving for it, I think.  I cooked a 9 x 13 baking dish of eggplant Parmesan on Tuesday.  My garlic and basil for the sauce were homegrown, but the eggplant and diced tomatoes were purchased from the grocery store.  I’m keeping the plants alive in the hopes that there will be cooler weather, but there’s nothing much to harvest these days.  We had a few small tomatoes and a couple of cucumbers on salad today, but that may be it for a while.

@Dan Freeman , your tomatoes look beautiful.  What varieties are they?


----------



## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> Our last rain was in June and none is expected here.



Are you having a heat wave now, too?


----------



## Dan Freeman

DuaeGuttae said:


> @Begreen’s pictures of eggplant gave me a craving for it, I think.  I cooked a 9 x 13 baking dish of eggplant Parmesan on Tuesday.  My garlic and basil for the sauce were homegrown, but the eggplant and diced tomatoes were purchased from the grocery store.  I’m keeping the plants alive in the hopes that there will be cooler weather, but there’s nothing much to harvest these days.  We had a few small tomatoes and a couple of cucumbers on salad today, but that may be it for a while.
> 
> @Dan Freeman , your tomatoes look beautiful.  What varieties are they?



The oblong ones are San Marzano's. The others are a combination of Early Treat, Early Girl, Rapunzel Cherry, and Mountain Magic. It has been hot the past few weeks, not out of the ordinary, but we've only had only about 1/3rd the average rainfall for July, a little over an inch, so everything is bone dry, but not as bad as you are experiencing.


----------



## clancey

Everything looks so so good and free---what are those larger tomato's called for they look really good not the longer ones but the round ones?  My tomato plant is large (wide) and it has one tomato on it with three yellow flowers so far--really big but no tomato's just yet. That Parm looks just wonderful and hoping everyone gets rain for you people really need it although here I am "rained out" and want some sunshine dryer weather for a change in my city but its been cooler which is really nice today which is good but temperature is rising..clancey


----------



## Dan Freeman

clancey said:


> Everything looks so so good and free---what are those larger tomato's called for they look really good not the longer ones but the round ones?  My tomato plant is large (wide) and it has one tomato on it with three yellow flowers so far--really big but no tomato's just yet. That Parm looks just wonderful and hoping everyone gets rain for you people really need it although here I am "rained out" and want some sunshine dryer weather for a change in my city but its been cooler which is really nice today which is good but temperature is rising..clancey


I might not have mentioned it. Those larger ones are some kind of beefsteaks, but I don't remember the name.


----------



## begreen

DuaeGuttae said:


> Are you having a heat wave now, too?


Yes, though not by Texas standards. Highs have been in the 90s in Seattle, 80s closer to Puget Sound, which we are. The hot weather is supposed to break by Sunday. Unfortunately with marine air coming in the nighttime temps will drop back into the 50s which is not the best for heat lovers.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

clancey said:


> Everything looks so so good and free---what are those larger tomato's called for they look really good not the longer ones but the round ones?  My tomato plant is large (wide) and it has one tomato on it with three yellow flowers so far--really big but no tomato's just yet. That Parm looks just wonderful and hoping everyone gets rain for you people really need it although here I am "rained out" and want some sunshine dryer weather for a change in my city but its been cooler which is really nice today which is good but temperature is rising..clancey




You can fertilize each flower by rubbing or tapping it.   Tomato plants are largely self pollinated.


----------



## clancey

Never knew that Lime and how interesting. My plant is real wide and I will take a picture of it maybe tomorrow--its a heck of a plant--unruly so to speak so I have place some different size containers under it to keep it off the ground and its seems to be doing well...thanks clancey


----------



## Poindexter

First two frost warnings here, 07-27 and 07-28 overnights.  No actual frost at my house, but the wife was in long sleeves, long pants and fuzzy socks.  I offered to light the woodstove, but she said no and made some pumpkin spice beverage thing.

This does have me thinking about using one of my firewood kilns as a greenhouse unit- if my Amish Paste were still alive right now they would probably be setting small fruit now, but weeks until anything is ripe.  Been at least two years since I have burned every stick in the kilns for heat, I can probably free up one of them.


----------



## Dan Freeman

I could not imagine frost warnings in July! Sounds like a good idea to use one of your firewood kilns as a greenhouse. It would definitely give you more time on the front and back ends of the season.

Off topic: I watched a YouTube video last night about the Alaska Railroad's Denali Star Train that travels Anchorage > Wasilla > Talkeetna > Denali > Fairbanks in about 12 hours. Gorgeous scenery. I think I need to put this trip on my bucket list.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

I remember being up in PEI, Canada on July 4th.   It was back in the 90s and it was just above freezing.


----------



## begreen

Poindexter said:


> This does have me thinking about using one of my firewood kilns as a greenhouse unit- if my Amish Paste were still alive right now they would probably be setting small fruit now, but weeks until anything is ripe. Been at least two years since I have burned every stick in the kilns for heat, I can probably free up one of them.


I had that same thought but was uncertain about the temp in the kilns. As long as the temp inside stays over about 40ºF Early Girls will still provide. The tomatoes will get smaller with the cooler weather and will take longer to ripen, but as a bonus, they also sweeten up. This year we ate our last Early Girl in February. The plant essentially stopped growing in Dec, but the tomatoes still slowly ripened. Not bad considering it was producing since late May.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

If you covered it in poly sheets, like a green house in your green house, do you think you could grow tomatoes as a perennial?


----------



## begreen

EatenByLimestone said:


> If you covered it in poly sheets, like a green house in your green house, do you think you could grow tomatoes as a perennial?


Not sure, maybe. I think it would take a significant grow light supplement. Our winter days are short and often grey.  I would also need to heat the greenhouse or at least the tomato bed to keep its roots warm.

There is an inspiring farm lady north of us that has created a very cool, self-sustaining, large greenhouse ecosystem. She grows all sorts of tropical fruits in it, year-round.








						A Low-Carbon Citrus Greenhouse in Canada - BC Farms & Food
					

The subtropical fruit greenhouse uses renewable energy, thermal mass, nutrient cycling, and rainwater harvesting to grow citrus fruits with minimal inputs.




					bcfarmsandfood.com
				








__





						Farm Projects | The Garden
					






					www.thegardensaltspring.com


----------



## EatenByLimestone

The oranges in the snow guy is cool too!   He grows oranges in Nebraska!  Same idea as the Canadian lady, he doesn't appear to be as whole process oriented as her, but uses geothermal.  Its interesting she does avocados.  It would not make me sad at all to be growing them in this country and shut the cartels out of that industry.


----------



## Dan Freeman

EatenByLimestone said:


> The oranges in the snow guy is cool too!   He grows oranges in Nebraska!  Same idea as the Canadian lady, he doesn't appear to be as whole process oriented as her, but uses geothermal.  Its interesting she does avocados.  It would not make me sad at all to be growing them in this country and shut the cartels out of that industry.



I've watched this video a few times. Would love to have his setup.


----------



## Woodsplitter67

My gardens crapping out on me.. Its been hot here and dew poings of 70 to 73 with late day or early evening thunderstorms is just killing my tomatoes, zucchini, and Cucumbers. I sprayed the tomatoes as a last resort with a fungicide..  Hopefully they come back..  Iv been busy at work, didn't go back there for like 4 days and im now paying the price for that mistake..


----------



## clancey

My tomato bush with one very tiny tomato and three or four flowers and I "tapped them" so maybe they will do "something"...I love Alaska and always wanted to take a trip there and someday maybe I will. I do not know and would think the "kiln idea" would be a lot harder than it would be worth but maybe and wish you could take a picture of it for us...Here's my tomato bush picture...clancey


----------



## EatenByLimestone

The kale i planted got mowed by a bunny.    There was a 4 ft section of older fence i didn't. Cover with hardware cloth.   I guess i need to cover it.  Its tough to take 1 step forward and get shoved back by a 6oz baby bunny.  I'm trying not to go midevil on them.   I have the tools to do it, but as long as they stay out of the garden we can coexist.   They're pushing their luck.


----------



## clancey

Woods my garden is not doing too well either--growth wise but nothing much..Aw Lime you'll put up the hard wire your a kind soul. Well we all have to just keep plugging. "Somebody "stole" my lettuce shoot plant--took it right out of the ground so no more lettuce and it was very bitter anyway. Looks like a continued rain where the nation does not need it and hot weather ahead at least for us here..


----------



## Dan Freeman

We trimmed our garlic today. Should be enough for almost a year. (This pic does not include the 8 largest ones we will plant in October for next year's crop.)



And dug 44 pounds of Russet (Baking) potatoes to add to our 54 pounds of yellow potatoes. We still need to dig the red potatoes.



Tomatoes are overwhelming us!


----------



## Dan Freeman

Too wet outside from last night's rain to work outside. I'm hoping the sun will pop out so we can get a few hours in.

Just cut up a bunch of yellow potatoes into cubes. Half went in the dehydrator and half went in the freeze dryer.

Just purchased a one-year subscription to Permaculture Magazine out of the UK. 4 issues a year and access to all 123 back issues. All articles can be searched which makes it easier to find topics. Only 13.99 £, 14.36 USD. I've already read a few articles about Russian Comfrey (Bocking 14 Cultivar). I am going to buy some crowns and get them planted in September.  https://www.permaculture.co.uk/

Comfrey is not only a good medicinal herb (a topical agent for treating wounds, skin ulcers, thrombophlebitis, bruises, and sprains and strains), but it's tap root, which can grow 10 feet deep, pulls up minerals that aren't normally available to most plants. Making a compost tea from it is rather easy, or mulching with its leaves, and very beneficial for other plants. I probably will use it (mainly) for the latter, as a fertilizer.


----------



## begreen

Comfrey tea can also be used as a wetting agent for the compost pile to further extend its benefits.


----------



## Dan Freeman

begreen said:


> Comfrey tea can also be used as a wetting agent for the compost pile to further extend its benefits.



Never thought of that. Great idea!


----------



## DuaeGuttae

Dan Freeman said:


> Too wet outside from last night's rain to work outside. I'm hoping the sun will pop out so we can get a few hours in.
> 
> Just cut up a bunch of yellow potatoes into cubes. Half went in the dehydrator and half went in the freeze dryer.
> 
> Just purchased a one-year subscription to Permaculture Magazine out of the UK. 4 issues a year and access to all 123 back issues. All articles can be searched which makes it easier to find topics. Only 13.99 £, 14.36 USD. I've already read a few articles about Russian Comfrey (Bocking 14 Cultivar). I am going to buy some crowns and get them planted in September.  https://www.permaculture.co.uk/
> 
> Comfrey is not only a good medicinal herb (a topical agent for treating wounds, skin ulcers, thrombophlebitis, bruises, and sprains and strains), but it's tap root, which can grow 10 feet deep, pulls up minerals that aren't normally available to most plants. Making a compost tea from it is rather easy, or mulching with its leaves, and very beneficial for other plants. I probably will use it (mainly) for the latter, as a fertilizer.



My mother used to grow a large patch of comfrey in the back corner of her garden when I was little.  I remember playing in it.

Bocking 14 is the seedless one, right?

I have not tried to establish comfrey here, though I’ve thought about it.  We are working on reducing some other exotic invasives like horehound and thistles.  We like to make weed tea out of those and use it in the garden and on the compost.  We figure the thistles are pretty good nutrient harvesters.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> Yes, though not by Texas standards. Highs have been in the 90s in Seattle, 80s closer to Puget Sound, which we are. The hot weather is supposed to break by Sunday. Unfortunately with marine air coming in the nighttime temps will drop back into the 50s which is not the best for heat lovers.



I wouldn’t wish Texas heat on anybody or even on any heat loving plants.  They really don’t love it that hot.  I think they’d actually prefer 50’s at night over 100’s during the day, but I know it slows their growth way down.    

The  news just reported that after the hottest May on record in San Antonio, the hottest June on record, we just officially closed the hottest July on record.  Not only that, it tied for the hottest month on record ever.  I really hope that August does not continue that trend.  









						San Antonio just experienced the hottest July on record
					

July 2022 also ties with August 2011 for the hottest month ever recorded




					www.ksat.com
				




Between the heat and illness, I have been really struggling recently.  The good news is that I’ve managed to keep things alive and start some new crops.  Lots of photos follow.

Here’s my Lemongrass that I started from seed this winter.  We haven’t harvested or used any.  I’m just letting it get established, but I’m excited that it is turning into a little clump from such a tiny seedling.




This is the Satsuma Mandarin Orange tree that got dug up by a skunk this winter and had most of its roots torn off.  It has started growing nicely in its pot.  We wanted to get it more established before trying to put it back in the ground.



Last Thursday afternoon I received the seeds I had ordered from Sand Hill Preservation.  I planted out some Red Noodle Yardlong Beans and Woods Mountain Crazy Bush Beans.  The Yardlong Beans had some sprouts last night when I watered them in the evening.  The bush beans showed their first sprouts this morning.




This is the ginger that I planted last spring.  It spent the winter inside but resprouted outside this spring.



Almost unbelievably to me, my rhubarb has made it all the way to August in record-breaking heat.



My amaranth is growing nicely.



My Sunn Hemp cover crop is growing in.



My first luffa gourd has been drying down.  It rattled when I tapped it this morning, so I decided to harvest.  It’s not a particularly large one, but I can tell that there are lots of seeds inside.  There was actually a new female flower on the plant yesterday.  I wonder if it will develop.


----------



## begreen

The Seattle area just broke a record for consecutive 90º+ days (6) but that is nothing compared to what the southwest is seeing. I am very impressed with what you have managed to keep growing in that heat. How will you be using the loofa? Have you tried picking one young for Asian cooking?


----------



## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> The Seattle area just broke a record for consecutive 90º+ days (6) but that is nothing compared to what the southwest is seeing. I am very impressed with what you have managed to keep growing in that heat. How will you be using the loofa? Have you tried picking one young for Asian cooking?



I plan to use the luffa for biodegradable dish scrubbers.  

I have not picked them young simply because I didn’t have enough fruit set to try it.  I’m excited to have lots of seed for future plantings now.  If any more set toward the end of the season, I may still have a chance.

I can’t edit the post above, but apparently July was not tied for the hottest month ever here but came in second behind August of 2011.  I remember when I moved here I heard about that drought from neighbors and a forester who talked about all the trees that died during that time.   That’s part of the reason that she recommended that we cut the cedars away from the oaks so that they wouldn’t take all the moisture first during another drought.  Thankfully our oaks seems to be holding on so far, but rain would be a huge blessing to everything and everybody down here.


----------



## begreen

We are losing a coastal redwood due to increased heat and multiple drought summers. It's a big, 50 yr old tree.


----------



## Dan Freeman

DuaeGuttae said:


> My mother used to grow a large patch of comfrey in the back corner of her garden when I was little.  I remember playing in it.
> 
> Bocking 14 is the seedless one, right?
> 
> I have not tried to establish comfrey here, though I’ve thought about it.  We are working on reducing some other exotic invasives like horehound and thistles.  We like to make weed tea out of those and use it in the garden and on the compost.  We figure the thistles are pretty good nutrient harvesters.


Yes. Blocking 14 is the seedless one and it looks like it is somewhat more adaptable to our winters. I found a site that sells 20 crowns for $70; about 1/3 to 1/2 the price of other sites, and they seem to have very good reviews.  https://strictlymedicinalseeds.com/...ive-root-cutting-bocking-14-cultivar-organic/


----------



## Dan Freeman

DuaeGuttae said:


> I wouldn’t wish Texas heat on anybody or even on any heat loving plants.  They really don’t love it that hot.  I think they’d actually prefer 50’s at night over 100’s during the day, but I know it slows their growth way down.
> 
> The  news just reported that after the hottest May on record in San Antonio, the hottest June on record, we just officially closed the hottest July on record.  Not only that, it tied for the hottest month on record ever.  I really hope that August does not continue that trend.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> San Antonio just experienced the hottest July on record
> 
> 
> July 2022 also ties with August 2011 for the hottest month ever recorded
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ksat.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Between the heat and illness, I have been really struggling recently.  The good news is that I’ve managed to keep things alive and start some new crops.  Lots of photos follow.
> 
> Here’s my Lemongrass that I started from seed this winter.  We haven’t harvested or used any.  I’m just letting it get established, but I’m excited that it is turning into a little clump from such a tiny seedling.
> 
> View attachment 297467
> 
> 
> This is the Satsuma Mandarin Orange tree that got dug up by a skunk this winter and had most of its roots torn off.  It has started growing nicely in its pot.  We wanted to get it more established before trying to put it back in the ground.
> View attachment 297468
> 
> 
> Last Thursday afternoon I received the seeds I had ordered from Sand Hill Preservation.  I planted out some Red Noodle Yardlong Beans and Woods Mountain Crazy Bush Beans.  The Yardlong Beans had some sprouts last night when I watered them in the evening.  The bush beans showed their first sprouts this morning.
> View attachment 297469
> View attachment 297471
> 
> 
> This is the ginger that I planted last spring.  It spent the winter inside but resprouted outside this spring.
> View attachment 297470
> 
> 
> Almost unbelievably to me, my rhubarb has made it all the way to August in record-breaking heat.
> View attachment 297472
> 
> 
> My amaranth is growing nicely.
> View attachment 297473
> 
> 
> My Sunn Hemp cover crop is growing in.
> View attachment 297474
> 
> 
> My first luffa gourd has been drying down.  It rattled when I tapped it this morning, so I decided to harvest.  It’s not a particularly large one, but I can tell that there are lots of seeds inside.  There was actually a new female flower on the plant yesterday.  I wonder if it will develop.
> View attachment 297475



You are a magician keeping things alive in your heat and lack of rain. Kudos!


----------



## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> We are losing a coastal redwood due to increased heat and multiple drought summers. It's a big, 50 yr old tree.



That makes me very sad to hear.  Is there any hope that it can be saved?


----------



## begreen

No, it would take a ton of watering. The root systems spread far out. We are on a water system with tiered pricing to discourage overconsumption so regular watering is not an option. The one hope is that the mother tree has created many pups surrounding it that are thriving. One is already about 25 ft tall.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

Dan Freeman said:


> You are a magician keeping things alive in your heat and lack of rain. Kudos!


Definitely no magic here but a lot of time spent watering.  It has been a blessing not to have run out of water in the rain tanks this summer.   I just don’t take pictures of the dead stuff, and some things just aren’t worth reporting.  Like the cucumber and tomato harvest of the last several days.  Every so often we enjoy some as toppings on a salad, but this is pretty sad considering that I have six cucumber plants and maybe 20 tomatoes.  I cut a number of the tomatoes back, but even the ones that are flowering just won’t set fruit.  I’m keeping them going in the hopes of a fall harvest, though.




I’m also planning to replace some plants later in the season if I can get good transplants.  I put out some small transplants a couple of weeks back that all died due to flea beetle damage, I think, so I’m trying to grow some larger ones now.  I have cucumbers, beets, dill, and some peppers, one eggplant, and tomatoes.  I’m not sure that the seeds I saved from my tomato are going to germinate, though.




@EatenByLimestone, I’m trying a new medium in the Aerogarden for this round.  I got some Oasis Horticubes (supposed to be biodegradable foam of some sort) from Harris Seed.  I want to use a tray of them to start wildflower seeds this fall, but I’m seeing how they do individually in the Aerogarden.  They are too short really, but I shoved them down.  As long as they come out without too much damage, they are much cheaper than peat sponges.  It remains to be seen if they work, though.  I’ll let you know.

The bits of egg carton are holding eggshells where my daughter is trying to sprout some wildflower seeds.  She just started the project yesterday.  We’ll see how she does remembering to water.  I already had to remind her this morning.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> No, it would take a ton of watering. The root systems spread far out. We are on a water system with tiered pricing to discourage overconsumption so regular watering is not an option. The one hope is that the mother tree has created many pups surrounding it that are thriving. One is already about 25 ft tall.



Our water system for our community well is tiered like that.  It’s downright punitive at higher levels.  They will also install a limiting meter for people whom they determine consume too much.  Thankfully we stay below the 10K gallon level (the low tier) since we don’t water the garden with it.  That’s why we have the rain tanks.  It was an investment, but we know what kind of bills our next door neighbors have gotten for water in past summers.   The highest part of our bill is just the fees to be connected.  The water rate is low, but it would go up significantly if we used more water.  (Our bills have gone up anyway because somehow the water company is retroactively raising our rates all the way back to September of 2020.)

I’m really glad to hear of the pups from your redwood, though.  That’s very encouraging.  

I’m not sure we have many trees on our property that are even 25 feet tall.  Some of them are quite large because Live Oaks grow as wide or even wider than they are tall, but they just don’t shoot up into the air.  They twist and turn and are beautiful in their gnarly way.  I miss the tall trees back in Virginia, though, and I’ve never had the opportunity to see the really tall ones in the west in person.  They’re beautiful in pictures.

Are your other trees handling the heat and drought okay?  I seem to recall that you have fruit trees.  Cherry? Apricot? Apple?


----------



## Dan Freeman

So glad I have my own well. Two of them. And this coming fall I will have a 550-gallon rain barrel that is on backorder.


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## begreen

Rain barrels don't help much here when during the summer we get very little or no rain for a couple of months. We would need a large multi-thousand gallon cistern to cover our agricultural needs.

The trees grow tall here. We are surrounded by 100+ ft trees. My mom loved them. I wanted to put in an agricultural well when we moved in, but my wife nixed the idea as too expensive and the risk of a dry well.

Yes, we have several fruit trees, some very old and some young. We have several varieties of apples. The oldest is the King, which shows up on the 1936 aerial shots of the property. There also is a shay, william's pride, liberty, macoun, gravenstein, enterprise, and cosmic crisp. We have some pears, cherries, a pluot, peaches, plums, and apricots too. Normally we don't get many apricots because they bloom so early and there are no pollinators flying about. We're having a low fruit year for the same reason due to the cold wet spring. That and the deer ate several young apples and their leaves during their raids in spring.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> Rain barrels don't help much here when during the summer we get very little or no rain for a couple of months. We would need a large multi-thousand gallon cistern to cover our agricultural needs.
> 
> The trees grow tall here. We are surrounded by 100+ ft trees. My mom loved them. I wanted to put in an agricultural well when we moved in, but my wife nixed the idea as too expensive and the risk of a dry well.
> 
> Yes, we have several fruit trees, some very old and some young. We have several varieties of apples. The oldest is the King, which shows up on the 1936 aerial shots of the property. There also is a shay, william's pride, liberty, macoun, gravenstein, enterprise, and cosmic crisp. We have some pears, cherries, a pluot, peaches, plums, and apricots too. Normally we don't get many apricots because they bloom so early and there are no pollinators flying about. We're having a low fruit year for the same reason due to the cold wet spring. That and the deer ate several young apples and their leaves during their raids in spring.



When we moved to Texas we had two homemade rain barrels that came with us.  55 gallons and 35 gallons, I believe.  We used them for years in Virginia.  It took us less than one year of living in Texas to realize that we needed to store a lot more water.  We’ve accumulated five more rain tanks and can now store upwards of 3,000 gallons.  With all that I’m probably down to under 500 gallons at this point.  We need more rain.  I think you’ve mentioned, though, that you live in a rain shadow and only get like 16 inches a year?

I had no idea you had quite so many fruit trees, Begreen.  That’s really neat that your King variety is in photos from 1936.  Your Cosmic Crisp must be pretty young.  That type of apple has just appeared in our grocery stores this summer, and it has become my husband’s favorite.  That’s good news because it’s usually the least expensive unless something else is on sale.  I think the trees are only available to folks in Washington State at this point.  I read, though, that they expect it to replace Red Delicious in the future.

We have a few fruit trees in our backyard—apple, pear, peach, loquat, mandarin orange—but we’ve never gotten either apples or pears.  We’ve gotten occasional peaches, loquats, and oranges, but it’s more the exception than the rule.  We’ve thought about planting some other apples, Pink Lady or Anna since they need fewer chill hours, but we’ve not committed to it.  We did plant four pomegranates to create a hedge a few years ago where we had to take out some diseased Photinia, and those are starting to get bigger this year.  I don’t know when they might start blooming.


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## EatenByLimestone

Cosmic crisp is grown locally here too.   

My favorite is Northern Spy.


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## begreen

EatenByLimestone said:


> Cosmic crisp is grown locally here too.
> 
> My favorite is Northern Spy.


I have several favorites, but for different reasons. For cider, I like the king and gravenstein. For eating, the shay, cosmic crisp, and liberty. For pies, the king, shay, liberty, enterprise, and macoun are all good.


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## EatenByLimestone

Interesting!   WA and NY are the largest apple producers.   Yet tge Cosmic Crisp and Macon are the only varieties I recall seeing in stores and orchards!   It never occurred to me that our areas would be growing so many different varieties!  I’ll have to go apple picking this October and keep a list of the varieties to see what is familiar to you!


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## EatenByLimestone

Here’s a list off Google of upstate ny apples.   It’s fairly close to what I see.  There’s a couple in there I know I don’t see but can’t recall at the moment and I’ve never seen Asmeds kernel.    A lot of old varieties are still in the orchards here.  







en.wikipedia.org
Cortland





en.wikipedia.org
Honeycrisp





en.wikipedia.org
Empire





en.wikipedia.org
McIntosh red





waapple.org
Red Delicious





en.wikipedia.org
Mutsu





en.wikipedia.org
Gala





en.wikipedia.org
Golden Delicious





en.wikipedia.org
Macoun





www.walmart.ca
Fuji





en.wikipedia.org
Jonagold





en.wikipedia.org
Ginger Gold





en.wikipedia.org
Northern Spy





en.wikipedia.org
Granny Smith





en.wikipedia.org
Idared





en.wikipedia.org
Braeburn





en.wikipedia.org
Rome





en.wikipedia.org
Ashmead's Kernel





en.wikipedia.org
Cameo





en.wikipedia.org
Zestar





www.yummyfruit.co.nz
SweeTango





modernistpantry.com
EverCrisp





en.wikipedia.org
Pink Lady





en.wikipedia.org
Cox's Orange Pippin


----------



## begreen

EatenByLimestone said:


> Interesting!   WA and NY are the largest apple producers.   Yet tge Cosmic Crisp and Macon are the only varieties I recall seeing in stores and orchards!   It never occurred to me that our areas would be growing so many different varieties!  I’ll have to go apple picking this October and keep a list of the varieties to see what is familiar to you!


That's not all so different from out here. There are a so many apple varieties. My sister back in NY likes the Macoun and HoneyCrisp. The Cosmic Crisp is a cross between Enterprise and Honey Crisp I think. Out here, Melrose and Winter Banana are the best keeping apples for storage.


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## clancey

I found a interesting article about Tomato's and decided to share and maybe you will pick up one or two tidbits here to help your knowledge "spread further"...clancey








						How to Grow Better Boy Tomatoes
					

Better Boy tomatoes, Solanum lycopersicum ‘Better Boy’, are a hybrid tomato with juicy fruit. A disease-resistant variety, they're easy to care for.




					www.thespruce.com


----------



## woodey

clancey said:


> I found a interesting article about Tomato's and decided to share and maybe you will pick up one or two tidbits here to help your knowledge "spread further"...clancey
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How to Grow Better Boy Tomatoes
> 
> 
> Better Boy tomatoes, Solanum lycopersicum ‘Better Boy’, are a hybrid tomato with juicy fruit. A disease-resistant variety, they're easy to care for.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thespruce.com


Love fresh tomatoes. My plants are loaded this year and a few are six feet in height.


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## clancey

Woody they are beautiful tomato's and mine is still like a wide bush or something with about three flowers and nothing going on just growth and its called a "Big Boy" so we will see how it goes. It's a slow learner-lol---"I want some tomato's"---lol--yours look great...clancey


----------



## begreen

The tomato plant may be bushing out and not producing flowers because it is getting too much nitrogen fertilizer. If this is the case, stop feeding it with that fertilizer and consider some pruning and switch to a 0-10-10 fertilizer like this:








						Alaska Morbloom Fertilizer 0-10-10 | Pennington
					

Liquid concentrate  promotes vigorous root growth and yields abundant, colorful flowers.




					www.pennington.com
				




Next year try using Tomato-Tone fertilizer instead. It is balanced for tomatoes.


----------



## begreen

woodey said:


> Love fresh tomatoes. My plants are loaded this year and a few are six feet in height.
> 
> View attachment 297559
> View attachment 297560


Looking good. How do you keep the soil so weed free?


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## Dan Freeman

I'm picking about 10lbs. of tomatoes every other day from 26 plants. Many are small cherry tomatoes we use for salads and the chickens; lots of slicing tomatoes, especially good to use in tomato sandwiches and on other sandwiches which we eat almost every day; and a good amount them are San Marzano tomatoes which we freeze until the end of the season. Usually, we have bags of them by the end of the season. We defrost them. Once defrosted, there is no need to blanche them to get the skins off; they come right off once defrosted. We make sauce and freeze it in those small 1lb coleslaw containers you buy in the store (we have dozens of them), along with about 200 meatballs made from hamburger meat and sausages. The sauce and meatballs last us all winter into spring.


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## EatenByLimestone

clancey said:


> Woody they are beautiful tomato's and mine is still like a wide bush or something with about three flowers and nothing going on just growth and its called a "Big Boy" so we will see how it goes. It's a slow learner-lol---"I want some tomato's"---lol--yours look great...clancey


Mrs. Clancy, 

Your tomato plant may have too much nitrogen.  Sometimes it can cause the plant to grow a lot and not fruit.  

Trimming the ends a bit may scare it into flowering and fruiting.  But it may not too.   Trimming off the axioms plays with the chemical balances in the plant and makes them think they are being browsed on.   Some plants start thinking about reproduction then.


----------



## clancey

Yea I think you are all right about nitrogen and read about it too. I have stopped feeding the plant and now I am watering it from the bottom so as not to get the leaves wet but I will not be clipping it since I want to see what it will do without clipping and I do not know how anyway.. Buts its still alive and I plan to check out about the Alaska Morbloom  fertilizer and if I choose which plants I like to grow at this time it is tomato"s so I will learn about this unruly and three flowered plant. I shook it some to " scare it " maybe it will give me more flowers--lol. I now am figuring out a way to stake it better and I am enjoying "fooling" with it.. Thanks everyone..clancey


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Fooling with it and learning is half the fun!    

With trimming, there are always best practices but you’re mimicking browsing.   Deer, rabbits, woodchucks, cows, goats and such aren’t very picky about where they bite on the plant.   Within reason, the plant will survive.   The end bud is the only thing that needs to come off to shock the plant.


----------



## Dan Freeman

We haven't done much pond work in the past two weeks because of the heat. So, the last few days we've been out by 7am in the morning digging more of the pond because the weather has been so hot by late morning/afternoon. I think we are just about finished with digging. I wanted to get down to 36" in the deepest part, but it looks like it will be about 32", which is deep enough. More rocks the deeper we go and more effort to get the clay/rocks lifted up and out of the pond! The shallow part will be 24 inches, and the 12-18" shelf that surrounds the two deeper areas will vary in depth anywhere from 3 +/- inches to about 12 +/- inches. This way I can plant a lot of plants according to the water depth they do best in.

I still have to put in 3-4 concrete blocks on the southern side. After that, we'll start at the shelf level removing any sharp rocks, then shave down the sides to the deeper levels to make them smoother. Finally, we'll remove any sharp rocks from the bottom and add in about 2-3" inches of sifted clay as an extra cushion before we put down the underlayment and liner. We have a ton of rocks we've been collecting from "the pit" and around the property that need to be power washed to remove the dirt and any lichens.


----------



## begreen

EatenByLimestone said:


> Fooling with it and learning is half the fun!
> 
> With trimming, there are always best practices but you’re mimicking browsing.   Deer, rabbits, woodchucks, cows, goats and such aren’t very picky about where they bite on the plant.   Within reason, the plant will survive.   The end bud is the only thing that needs to come off to shock the plant.


Taking off the terminal bud may cause it to produce excessive branching shoots. I wouldn't do that. Instead, I would establish the central vine and trim off some of the lateral side shoots and most of the suckers.


----------



## clancey

Yea I need to make this plant more manageable and have two thick branches tied up "somewhat" because I cannot get to the store for my truck is in repair getting some bodywork done but I dragged over a large lattice "trying" to give it shade and separating the branches to let some air go through and blocking it off from the west sun which is the hottest in the afternoon time. I put a fan on this thing for awhile to blow off some of the bottom leaves to make them have more air. My weed white planter "seems" to have some type of corn growing in it so I took a picture of it. My mint plant is wonderful and I used some of it in my ice tea. Pictures coming clancey


----------



## clancey

Free that is so interesting and I might have "missed" it but what are those concrete blocks for in the front of it is that the support you were talking about and are you going to plant anything in them-just curious here..I wish you had a cat or something to help you dig. What a project you started this time and please stay hydrated and pace yourself. bg I could cut off some of these shoots but for now I am leaving that go just to see how  this wild thing does out of curiosity here--lol.. When I get to the store I will buy some supplies to do something on the bottom dirt to keep it more dry. Stones, mulch or something so that I can see these leaves somewhat better. It's been really hot here so I cannot stay outside too long but I am having fun fooling with it and its about 4 and 1/2 foot tall and growing taller. I like my last years celebrity tomato plant better but we will see "if I get any tomato's and so far I have one tiny little green one near the bottom of the plant. I have something eating my "wild corn looking plant" and I am thinking grasshoppers. Thanks lime and I will keep that in mind but the "plant" (with my imagination) is now talking to me so I will keep the cutting and plucking off the table. Everybody"s gardens look just great but this is hard hot work..thanks clancey


----------



## woodey

begreen said:


> Looking good. How do you keep the soil so weed free?


A few years back I tilled up the site for  my current garden and it's  about 1/4 the size of the former, which makes it easy to go out once a week with a hoe and stay ahead of the weeds.  I also have some nice looking Walla-Walla sweets on the menu. Rather than watering the plants from my well, this year I'm drawing water up from the river and it seems like it's making a huge difference.


----------



## begreen

I just trimmed and brought in our onions. This is not a Walla Walla, it's more like a Texas Sweet.  The top dog Ringmaster weighed in at 1 1/2 lbs.!


----------



## woodey

begreen said:


> I just trimmed and brought in our onions. This is not a Walla Walla, it's more like a Texas Sweet.  The top dog Ringmaster weighed in at 1 1/2 lbs.!
> 
> View attachment 297630


Impressive!!


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## Dan Freeman

clancey said:


> Free that is so interesting and I might have "missed" it but what are those concrete blocks for in the front of it is that the support you were talking about and are you going to plant anything in them-just curious here.


Since the pond is on uneven ground, I had to raise one side. Those blocks are for added stability. They will be covered with the edge of the pond liner and have rocks on them to hide the pond liner.


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## Dan Freeman

begreen said:


> I just trimmed and brought in our onions. This is not a Walla Walla, it's more like a Texas Sweet.  The top dog Ringmaster weighed in at 1 1/2 lbs.!
> 
> View attachment 297630


Beautiful onion! Do you start your onions from seed or sets? I usually buy sets locally, but the selection is poor.


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## DuaeGuttae

Beautiful pictures of plants, tomatoes, and onions, folks.  Thanks for sharing.

We hit a milestone down here yesterday.  I ran out of water in the rain tank by the garden.  That’s not unusual as it only holds 500 gallons.   We then usually pump water from one of the two larger tanks in front of our house.  The problem is that we’ve already emptied those.  We have two smaller tanks in the back of the house that I use to water plants in the backyard.  One still has perhaps 150 gallons if that much.  It would be hard to get that to the garden, but we also need it in the back.

Yesterday I got almost the whole garden watered before I ran out.  I had only the asparagus bed left to do, and I was able to finish that by dipping a watering can into a rain barrel where we collect air conditioner condensation from the A/C unit that cools our upstairs.  That’s nearly empty now, but I was able to water both the asparagus and the potted blueberries with it because it collects water every day.

We have one other rain barrel that was sitting near our garden acting as an overflow barrel for the 500 gallon tank. I moved it yesterday to what we call the “way back” of our property.  Our whole property is sloped with different levels almost on terraces, so the “way back” drops downhill from our back yard.   I put together two garden hoses and ran them down into the barrel to try to collect air conditioner condensation from a second drain for the A/C in our living room and two bedrooms downstairs.  Usually I have a hose that directly waters the orange tree in the backyard (or I move it from time to time to other trees).  I’m hoping to find that my setup has collected a bit more water in the barrel this morning.  If it does collect water, we’ll see what we can do about pumping it back up the hill to where we can use it, but it will take a while to collect any usable amount.  I need to go check to see if my setup worked overnight.


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## begreen

Dan Freeman said:


> Beautiful onion! Do you start your onions from seed or sets? I usually buy sets locally, but the selection is poor.


Sets from Dixondale Farms in Texas which I heartily recommend. He really knows onions!




__





						Long Day Onion Plants - Dixondale Farms
					






					dixondalefarms.com


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## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> Sets from Dixondale Farms in Texas which I heartily recommend. He really knows onions!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Long Day Onion Plants - Dixondale Farms
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dixondalefarms.com


I call those “transplants” from Dixondale.  “Sets,” to me, are tiny bulbs without greens that have grown and gone dormant.   I started buying from Dixondale on Begreen’s recommendation.  I, of course, need short day onions.

My rain barrel setup didn’t work as well as I had hoped because the hose connection was leaky.  I had suspected that might be a problem, so I had positioned it at the base of the apple tree, so the water went to a good spot.  My husband and I replaced the second hose with a shorter, non-leaky one and positioned the rain barrel a bit higher up the hill but still below the outlet from the air conditioner.  I’ll check on it later in the afternoon or evening when the air conditioner comes on.


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## begreen

Yes, he lists them as plants. We have had great success with his starts for several years now. Next year I am going to try Patterson for yellow, keeper onions.  We used to grow Copra, but he says the seed is no longer available.


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## Dan Freeman

begreen said:


> Sets from Dixondale Farms in Texas which I heartily recommend. He really knows onions!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Long Day Onion Plants - Dixondale Farms
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dixondalefarms.com


Thanks, and I was hoping you would give a reference. I will check out Dixondale.


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## Poindexter

I am clearly going to need a greenhouse to harvest heirloom tomato.  I appreciate all y'all's various supportive comments this season. 

In point of fact my heirloom starts succumbed to leaf mold a month ago today.  If they had lived they would be facing their third frost warning of the season tonight, with snow in the forecast above 3k feet, and 19 days to harvest.  I am at about 440 feet and not overly concerned about termination dust for another 4-6 weeks, but most likely my wood stove will be lit already 3 weeks from today.

Future heirloom/ hybrids will have to be kept warm ( above +50dF overnight) in August if I want to harvest anything.  With cordwood now going for $400 per cord and tomato at $5/ pound it is very much a tossup between buying tomato from a farmer that owns a greenhouse already versus giving up cordwood kiln space to use as a tomato greenhouse.

Thanks again for your inputs.  I am going to can Kroger tomato soon, mixed Roma and slicer, fire roasted.    I will have to ask around to see who the produce manager is.  I am on a first name basis with just about everyone in the meat department, I will start with them.


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## Dan Freeman

Money-wise, it does sound like a toss-up, but do you really want to give up on the challenge of growing heirloom tomatoes? Besides the sense of satisfaction, it would give you, a greenhouse is a lot of fun. We've had our greenhouse since 2016, and my only regret is that we didn't get it sooner. Not only does it help get things started earlier, but it also extends the season. Not to mention, it is a great source of therapy. BTW, after the season is over, I do split and store firewood in my greenhouse to get a jump on the next season. I move the split firewood out and clean everything up in early March so I can start my seeds. Maybe your kiln space could serve both purposes.


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## Dan Freeman

Yesterday, I bought 8-50lb bags of river rock for the shallow shelf that will surround the pond. I have about 7 5-gallon buckets of river rock that I removed from an old path that I will also use to save some money. Cleaning it is a real chore. Getting the dirt off it pretty easy, but it is all the debris mixed in that is difficult to remove. I am using my soil shifting screen over a wheelbarrow and washing a bit at a time.

Today, I plan on trellising my blackberry plants, and I want to start planting some fall crops, but I think it may still be a bit early, so I am debating that. Will probably move some wheelbarrows of wood chips and spread them in the FF. We want to try and have the entire FF covered with chips before the winter; next year we will then add another thinner layer. We're getting low on cardboard again, so we'll have to hit a few stores and get more.

I also need to start gathering rocks for the pond edge that I will power wash. I bought a Generac power washer 4-5 years ago that is still in the box! In fact, 2 years ago I had to hire someone to power wash the house and warehouse because I could not fit that task into my schedule. Can you believe that? Owning a power washer and hiring someone to power wash. I can almost see my father shaking his head. He never hired anyone to do anything. Did it all himself.

Firewood is finished for the season...just a little over 3.5 cords split and stacked. The last stack is always what I call the "shorties". They are only about 8" long and we use them under longer splits when starting a fire, so the fire gets good oxygen underneath. I had about 1400-1600 of them cut and stacked. They are not easy to stack, and the stack is not very stable since they are so short. Last year the stack held up well. Yesterday, I walked outside, and the stack had completely collapsed out into the driveway. I spent 3 hours moving them out of the way and restacking them, but this time I placed 3 pallets across the front and lashed them together and to the front of the woodshed. They should help keep the bottom of the pile stabilized, but it was not what I wanted to have to do in that heat.

Making potato salad from some of our yellow potatoes today. Usually, we use russet potatoes for potato salad, but we are going to try some of the yellow ones and see how it tastes.


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## clancey

Gosh pdexter sounds like your getting ready for the future weather coming in and I imagine with the Alaska living you really have to plan well... I know one thing between you and free "you hate to spend money" and you two  watch it carefully as you go and this is good. What kind of stove do you have pdexter for you sure have the wood "ready" to go.  dg ---you are so very knowledgeable and I imagine you have  been at this "all your life" from a little person and I feel for you because of all the heat in your area. You sure been keeping up the watering good and I applaud this effort. I have a feeling that if my tomato plant (bush) starts to get flowers and baby tomato's on it---it will be "all at one time"--"great"---neighbor sharing--lol..It's doing well "growing" and nothing much happening with it just "growing". thanks...clancey


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## EatenByLimestone

MI Gardner 50% off sale.    I’ve used them many times and they’ve always done right by me!


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## Dan Freeman

I got the 3 blackberry plants trellised today. There are a lot of primocanes (canes that will produce next year's berries). Second year canes, when they produce berries are called floricanes. After they produce berries, they die and have to be cut out.

Before



After



I think I am also going to let some of the primocanes dip down to the soil level and produce new plants, so I wind up with 6 blackberry plants altogether.

I also fertilized all 44 fruit trees, berry bushes, and fruiting vines, and gave them a good drink. I spent 2 hours watering.

We also dug up our red potatoes. We got another 38 pounds of potatoes. So, all told we got 54 pounds of yellow potatoes, 33 pounds of russet (baking) potatoes, and 38 ponds of red potatoes, for a total of 135 pounds of potatoes. Not bad since we started with 11 pounds of organic potatoes from Whole Foods.

Red Potatoes



Here is our tomato/cucumber harvest for today.


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## DuaeGuttae

@EatenByLimestone, did you order seeds?  If so, what did you get?

@Dan Freeman, excellent harvest on the potatoes!  We didn’t do nearly so well.  The heat just came on too early, I think.  I do have several potato plants coming up in the garden now, though, from potatoes that we must have missed when harvesting this spring.  I don’t know how they’ll do, though, since they’re not going to be getting much water unless it rains.  I wouldn’t expect frost before the end of October, though, so they’ve got a while to grow if they can survive the heat until cooler (and hopefully wetter) weather comes.

I did pick two cherry tomatoes and one nice slicing cucumber today.  I’m hoping I can keep the plants alive till the weather turns.


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## begreen

DuaeGuttae said:


> @EatenByLimestone, did you order seeds?  If so, what did you get?


I see they sell a Porter tomato that they say will bear well in Texas heat. Have you heard of this variety?


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## begreen

We are far behind your harvest this year Dan. Our tomatoes are just getting their first blush, though I did pick a few cherry tomatoes. We did well with garlic and onions and our potato crop wasn't shabby, but now we wait. I did pick 4 ears of our Sugar Buns corn yesterday and it was good. More coming there and we are getting some peppers now. Eggplants are fruiting, but they have a week or two to go.


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## woodey

Dan Freeman said:


> I got the 3 blackberry plants trellised today. There are a lot of primocanes (canes that will produce next year's berries). Second year canes, when they produce berries are called floricanes. After they produce berries, they die and have to be cut out.
> 
> Before
> View attachment 297665
> 
> 
> After
> View attachment 297666
> 
> 
> I think I am also going to let some of the primocanes dip down to the soil level and produce new plants, so I wind up with 6 blackberry plants altogether.
> 
> I also fertilized all 44 fruit trees, berry bushes, and fruiting vines, and gave them a good drink. I spent 2 hours watering.
> 
> We also dug up our red potatoes. We got another 38 pounds of potatoes. So, all told we got 54 pounds of yellow potatoes, 33 pounds of russet (baking) potatoes, and 38 ponds of red potatoes, for a total of 135 pounds of potatoes


I like the way you displayed them on your hoosier cabinet.


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## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> I see they sell a Porter tomato that they say will bear well in Texas heat. Have you heard of this variety?



I have heard of it.  My understanding is that it was developed in Stephenville, Texas, and that it does do well in hot, dry conditions.  This would have been a good summer to test its limits.  It’s been on my mental list for a while, and I look for it when seed shopping.  MIGardener has been out of stock when I’ve checked there a few times this year.  I’ll probably get hold of it some time just to see how it compares with other varieties, but I have a number of small-fruited tomatoes, so it hasn’t been my highest priority.  Do you have any experience with it, @begreen?  Did you garden back when you lived in Texas?


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## DuaeGuttae

woodey said:


> I like the way you displayed them on your hoosier cabinet.
> 
> View attachment 297701


I had to go look up the term “Hoosier cabinet” just now.  Nice pieces of furniture, and nice garden produce, too.


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## EatenByLimestone

I did not order.   I still have plenty of seeds from this spring.


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## DuaeGuttae

Well, I watered the garden with our paid community well water this morning.  We’re allowed to use it to water on Mondays (it goes according to address when one is allowed to use it).  I was hoping to get by without it, but some of the ollas in various beds were completely empty, and others were pretty low.  We have the possibility of some rain later this week, so I figured I’d better keep the plants alive till then.

In order to stretch hoses from the hose to the garden, I needed to undo the rain barrel setup in the “way back.”  It had collected some water, but we’re going to move that rain barrel up to our barn to collect runoff in case of rain.  I have a watering can under the drain on the side of the house.  I’ll need to go check it later, as I’m sure that we drain more than one watering can’s worth of water.  I think I’ll use the water to give the olives a drink as it’s been quite a while for them.  They can take it, but they do like an occasional watering.


I harvested a pretty big amount of Amaranth today and used it for a Greek salad for lunch.  Some of the bigger leaves were a bit stronger than my older children preferred (a bitter aftertaste), but it worked as a lettuce substitute.  We had a slicing cucumber and some cherry tomatoes that the neighbors let us pick (I had grown the plant for them this spring) and onions.  My oldest daughter suggested that next time I harvest Amaranth that I should sautee it with bacon and serve it with soft-boiled eggs.  She thinks that would complement the bitterness. We’ll see.



My cucumbers and dill (and a few other things) are sprouting inside.  I’m thinking that my experimental medium is a little too compressed in the Aerogarden, and it’s too dense for the roots.  They seem to have a harder time getting through, so I hope these plants will survive.  My daughter’s wildflowers that are in the same medium that is not compressed seem to be doing just fine.  I’m thinking of starting a tray of leeks to get some transplants to put out this fall.


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## begreen

DuaeGuttae said:


> Do you have any experience with it, @begreen? Did you garden back when you lived in Texas?


Nope, I hadn't heard of them before seeing them in the online listing. My time in Texas was in the military at Lackland no garden then.


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## Dan Freeman

DuaeGuttae said:


> @Dan Freeman, excellent harvest on the potatoes!


We were truly surprised to get so many pounds of potatoes when we only planted 11 lbs. of organic potatoes we bought at Whole Foods Grocery. (I decided to buy them there since most places charge an outrageous price for seed potatoes. 11 lbs. only cost us $12.) I also think the soil had a lot to do with it as well. They were planted in new raised beds that we filled with a 50/50 mix of fresh topsoil and mushroom compost then added some vermiculite and peat moss to keep the soil extra fluffy. Mushroom compost is like feeding plants steroids. We have them hung in mesh bags in our old cellar which stays cool. We'll see how long they last and adjust next year's crop up or down depending on how long we can store them.


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## Dan Freeman

DuaeGuttae said:


> I had to go look up the term “Hoosier cabinet” just now.  Nice pieces of furniture, and nice garden produce, too.


Yes, Hoosiers were the original kitchen cabinets and workstations before everything started getting built into kitchens. They were given the nickname Hoosier because most of them were made in Indiana, the Hoosier state. They we first made in 1898 and were popular up through the early 1940's.


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## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> Nope, I hadn't heard of them before seeing them in the online listing. My time in Texas was in the military at Lackland no garden then.


I’ve read about them on the Tomatoville forum where I can read but don’t post.  At least one Texas member said it was his favorite tomato and the only one that survives the whole summer.  Other reviews seemed pretty positive as well.  I just never seem to find all the seeds I want in one place, so whatever is my highest priority determines where I order from.  Porter hasn’t been my highest priority, but I keep my eyes open for it.  Thankfully my tomatoes are surviving the summer even if they’re not bearing right now.


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## DuaeGuttae

Dan Freeman said:


> We were truly surprised to get so many pounds of potatoes when we only planted 11 lbs. of organic potatoes we bought at Whole Foods Grocery. (I decided to buy them there since most places charge an outrageous price for seed potatoes. 11 lbs. only cost us $12.) I also think the soil had a lot to do with it as well. They were planted in new raised beds that we filled with a 50/50 mix of fresh topsoil and mushroom compost then added some vermiculite and peat moss to keep the soil extra fluffy. Mushroom compost is like feeding plants steroids. We have them hung in mesh bags in our old cellar which stays cool. We'll see how long they last and adjust next year's crop up or down depending on how long we can store them.


Potatoes can certainly be a very rewarding crop.  You’re making me interested in taking a trip to Whole Foods the next time I have to be in that part of San Antonio just to look at their potato selection.

I’m sure good soil (and good water) had a lot to do with your success.   I’ve read great things about mushroom compost but don’t have access to it where I buy my compost.  We can buy an organic aged manure compost in bulk.  I make small quantities myself as well and am excited that one tumbler is finishing a batch now.

My mom stores her potatoes in a cool basement in the dark.  She lays hers out on shelving a room beside her pump room.  I think she may sprinkle lime on them, but I’m not sure.

Our harvests of potatoes are small enough that we don’t have to worry about long term storage.  We just had to buy our first bag of grocery store potatoes for the summer because we finished the homegrown ones.


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## EatenByLimestone

Our heat wave is breaking.  I hope yours is too DG!    My tomatoes stopped flowering.  I hope they pick back up.


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## DuaeGuttae

EatenByLimestone said:


> Our heat wave is breaking.  I hope yours is too DG!    My tomatoes stopped flowering.  I hope they pick back up.



Well, we haven’t had record-breaking heat this week.  Just normal heat.  We actually had two days where it didn’t reach 100, only 99, and yesterday was 98.  Today we’re back up to 100, but we have a slight chance for rain the next couple of days, and it may be a little cooler if that comes to pass.

Have you harvested tomatoes yet?  Are you done with the first flush, or are they still on the plants?  Maybe you could try that judicious pruning that you were mentioning to Mrs. Clancey if the plants aren’t fruiting right now?


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## begreen

The corn harvest is done. This is the first time in 28 yrs here that we have harvested the corn before eating lots of ripe tomatoes. I left a half dozen ears on the stalks for fresh eats this week.  The first is still at least a week off. Strange year.


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## EatenByLimestone

DuaeGuttae said:


> Well, we haven’t had record-breaking heat this week.  Just normal heat.  We actually had two days where it didn’t reach 100, only 99, and yesterday was 98.  Today we’re back up to 100, but we have a slight chance for rain the next couple of days, and it may be a little cooler if that comes to pass.
> 
> Have you harvested tomatoes yet?  Are you done with the first flush, or are they still on the plants?  Maybe you could try that judicious pruning that you were mentioning to Mrs. Clancey if the plants aren’t fruiting right now?


Yeah, starting to put them up for winter.  In the freezer as I type this, lol.    Then yesterdays and todays harvest that’ll get processed in a couple days, as long as they don’t become snacks first.  The unripe one I found laying on the ground.  A squirrel must have pulled it off.  I try to harvest before they turn bright red on the vine.   Squirrels take a taste then leave them.  

If they don’t start flowering I’ll have to try something.  Looks like they started growing again though.


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## Dan Freeman

Doing a lot of odds and ends today. I put new zip ties on the fencing around the backyard. Dumped some wood in the dump at the back of our property. Collecting stuff we plan to take to the town clean up in September (old fencing, old wheelbarrow, and more junk that our regular trash guy won't take). I'm glad the township has these cleanup days twice a year, otherwise we would have to pay to get rid of this stuff. 

Two days ago, I planted clover seed where we used to have the raised gardens in the backyard. It is already germinating. I can see little green "dots" all over that area. Must be the heat and the water I am giving it. The package says it germinates in 10-14 days. 

The well diggers are back at work next door. Their rig broke down late Monday afternoon. It took them two days to fix it. From the amount of pipes they have attached to the drill so far, it looks like they are down at least 220 feet and still drilling. Our well, just about 50 feet away is only 145 feet deep, so I think I can rest assured that they won't be getting water from our area unless they get "spill over". I was worried with two wells so close together, we might be sharing the same water at the same level. The noise level of the drill is deafening, and there is rock dust all over! Hopefully, they finish today. 

Definitely have to cut back on tomatoes next year! We just get all of them given away, and we get another 10-15 lbs. We're eating as many as we can. Yesterday, we canned some, but it is becoming like a nightmare. Remember the Dick Van Dyke show where he was dreaming about the aliens and walnuts? He opened the closet in his living room and 1000's of walnuts poured out. That's how I am starting to feel about the tomatoes.


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## EatenByLimestone

I’ve been trying to get some people evicted from a rental.   The sheriff just came and watched me change locks.    Now I get to go through it.   I need to clean, and paint, fix wall damage, etc.   

I’m hoping I can get it done and on the market quickly.


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## EatenByLimestone

They had lots of brush out back that needs to be burnt or thrown out.    I’m sitting here enjoying what I can before the weekend.   It’s not the most productive, but needs to be done to clean up the yard and house.

Seems they left enough junk that my house is half staged for selling.   I have a mattress for a bedroom and a computer with bookshelves for an office.   We just got a bed, so I can move stuff around and the garbage bed can stage another room….


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## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> The corn harvest is done. This is the first time in 28 yrs here that we have harvested the corn before eating lots of ripe tomatoes. I left a half dozen ears on the stalks for fresh eats this week.  The first is still at least a week off. Strange year.
> 
> View attachment 297750



Beautiful, Begreen.


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## DuaeGuttae

EatenByLimestone said:


> Yeah, starting to put them up for winter.  In the freezer as I type this, lol.    Then yesterdays and todays harvest that’ll get processed in a couple days, as long as they don’t become snacks first.  The unripe one I found laying on the ground.  A squirrel must have pulled it off.  I try to harvest before they turn bright red on the vine.   Squirrels take a taste then leave them.
> 
> If they don’t start flowering I’ll have to try something.  Looks like they started growing again though.
> 
> View attachment 297752
> View attachment 297753


Those look great.  I haven’t had enough tomatoes to process any at all, but I’m hoping that that will change this fall.  I have three plants that are a San Marzano offspring, and they’re starting to flower again now.  It may still be too hot for pollination, but we did cool down to the low 70’s yesterday evening when we got about 2 tenths of an inch of rain.  (A couple hundred gallons in the rain tank that should at least allow me to do a watering on Saturday with rain water.). I’m hoping for more storms this afternoon, but the chances are still pretty slim.

@Dan Freeman , why are the neighbors drilling a well?  Is it new construction, or have there been water problems with an older well?  I sure hope it doesn’t have an impact on your water at all.


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## begreen

Finally! This is the latest we have ever started having tomatoes. There are tons on the vine. September will be a serious sauce-making month. These are 2 early girls and a honey bee cherry tomato that we are trying out this year.




So glad things are cooling down for you DG and that things are waking up. We got a freak thunderstorm 2 days ago and things have notably perked up. .27" of rain. No more rain is currently expected for the next 10 days.


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## Dan Freeman

Nice tomatoes, @begreen. I have grown Early Girls the past few years. I like them.

I have decided I HAVE TO cut down on tomatoes next year. (I say that every year.) With 28 plants, we are being overwhelmed. While we are/will be processing many ourselves, we just have too many, and where I live, neighbors are few and far in between. I've taken to bringing a box every other day to the supermarket and giving them to a worker I know. She takes some home and splits the others up to other workers.

We do the same thing with our San Marzano tomatoes. Freeze them until the season is over and process all at once. I have 8  1-gallon bags in the freezer now. So easy to take the skins off when they defrost as opposed to blanching and removing the skins when fresh. I tend to pick them a day or two before they are ripe for the same reason...squirrels and chipmunks. I have about 2 dozen on a platter that I picked yesterday. They should be ripe enough to freeze by tomorrow. They ripen very quickly. One thing I have noticed is a lot of the smaller ones that are starting to grow further up the plant are getting blossom end rot before they mature, but it's probably too late to give the plants a calcium treatment.

Two days ago, I noticed the leaves on my cantaloupes wilting. Yesterday, they were all brown and dying. Something got to them. Too bad, I have 8 good sized melons growing. I will pick them and see how well they ripen on their own. There are many that are just too small.

A week or two ago there was mention of Squash Vine Borer in this thread. I got my weekly email from Joe Gardener (Joe Lampl') this morning. One of the topics he covered in this week's newsletter is Squash Vine Borer Prevention and Control. Here's a post of his from last year he referred to in the newsletter: https://joegardener.com/squash-vine-borer-prevention-control/


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## Dan Freeman

DuaeGuttae said:


> @Dan Freeman , why are the neighbors drilling a well?  Is it new construction, or have there been water problems with an older well?  I sure hope it doesn’t have an impact on your water at all.



Until the late 80's this was one large property (15 acres) with two houses and 2 wells. When the property was split, the well for the other house wound up being on our property. (Not sure why they did that.) Since we purchased 27+ years ago, we have always allowed the other house access and use to the well. The neighbors recently put their house up for sale, and the buyer wanted something definite in writing about use of the well, but failed to submit the proper easement and pulled out of the deal, so the neighbors decided to dig a separate well and put the house back on the market. That's a win for us, because after we run our own electricity to this well, we will use it for the gardens so as not to tax our house well as much.

As far as the well they dug this past week, it is only about 50-60 feet from our house well. Our house well is only 145 feet deep. They had to go well over 200 feet before they got water, so I would imagine that will not hurt our well.


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## clancey

Just curious here "Does other properties in your area use wells". Have you had your well water tested? I wish I had a well lol . Here is a update on my tomato bush. I have one tomato so I took a picture of it...Everybody"s garden looks really good and enjoy your good looking tomato"s..clancey


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## Dan Freeman

Congrats on the tomato, Mrs. Clancey! 

There is no residential city water where I live, so all the homes have wells. We had our well water tested when we bought this house/property 27+ years ago, but not since then. We probably should have it tested periodically, but it is one of those things that you keep saying I have to get done, but never think of that often or get done.


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## begreen

Anticipation. This Pomidoro Squsito plant is 6+ ft tall and full of tomatoes. They are a hybrid, san marzano like tomato, but bigger and more disease resistant.


The Blue Beech plants are not far behind. This is an heirloom variety with exquisite flavor. Although it is a meaty, sauce tomato, we eat them in salads too. They get pretty big, about 4-5" long and 2"+ in diameter. It's a prolific bearer. The plant needs to be well staked due to the weight of the tomatoes.



The Honey Bee cherry tomatoes are ripening. This is a new one we are trying out. Normally we grow Sungolds. These are larger and prolific. On the other side of this cage are Sweet Millions, a regular in the garden.


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## DuaeGuttae

Dan Freeman said:


> Until the late 80's this was one large property (15 acres) with two houses and 2 wells. When the property was split, the well for the other house wound up being on our property. (Not sure why they did that.) Since we purchased 27+ years ago, we have always allowed the other house access and use to the well. The neighbors recently put their house up for sale, and the buyer wanted something definite in writing about use of the well, but failed to submit the proper easement and pulled out of the deal, so the neighbors decided to dig a separate well and put the house back on the market. That's a win for us, because after we run our own electricity to this well, we will use it for the gardens so as not to tax our house well as much.
> 
> As far as the well they dug this past week, it is only about 50-60 feet from our house well. Our house well is only 145 feet deep. They had to go well over 200 feet before they got water, so I would imagine that will not hurt our well.


Sounds great that you’ll have an irrigation well as long as you can get electricity to it.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

clancey said:


> Just curious here "Does other properties in your area use wells". Have you had your well water tested? I wish I had a well lol . Here is a update on my tomato bush. I have one tomato so I took a picture of it...Everybody"s garden looks really good and enjoy your good looking tomato"s..clancey
> 
> View attachment 297833
> View attachment 297834
> View attachment 297835


I hope that’s a beginning to many more, Mrs. Clancey.  Thanks for the picture.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> Anticipation. This Pomidoro Squsito plant is 6+ ft tall and full of tomatoes. They are a hybrid, san marzano like tomato, but bigger and more disease resistant.
> View attachment 297836
> 
> The Blue Beech plants are not far behind. This is an heirloom variety with exquisite flavor. Although it is a meaty, sauce tomato, we eat them in salads too. They get pretty big, about 4-5" long and 2"+ in diameter. It's a prolific bearer. The plant needs to be well staked due to the weight of the tomatoes.
> View attachment 297837
> 
> 
> The Honey Bee cherry tomatoes are ripening. This is a new one we are trying out. Normally we grow Sungolds. These are larger and prolific. On the other side of this cage are Sweet Millions, a regular in the garden.
> 
> View attachment 297838


Begreen, those look beautiful.  I did some reading about the Honey Bee tomato, and it sounds interesting.  I’ll look forward to hearing your reports on it.  I’m glad you’ll have good harvests of Pomidoro Squisito and Blue Beech for your sauce making.

Almost all of our tomato plants are beginning to flower again after I had cut them back earlier this season.  I’m afraid it may be a bit too early, though, for them to benefit from cool enough weather.  It hit 98 yesterday and is up to 96 already today, and the hottest hours are still to come.  It’s cooler than it was, but probably not cool enough.  I’m hoping for some tropical moisture to make its way here this weekend, but we may be too far north and west to benefit.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

Yesterday my ten year old and I peeled our first luffa.  We got lots of seeds from it so that I can plant more next year if I can figure out a good spot.  The peeling was fun and not too hard.  I ended up cutting the luffa into four pieces.  I gave one to my daughter for a bath sponge and kept the others to use in the kitchen sink.








I’m also including here a fun picture that my mother sent me.  She planted seeds from a mixed pack of winter squash.  Nothing in the pack is supposed to be a Fairytale-type pumpkin, but that’s one of the plants she got.  This specimen is over a foot in diameter.


----------



## Dan Freeman

DuaeGuttae said:


> Yesterday my ten year old and I peeled our first luffa.  We got lots of seeds from it so that I can plant more next year if I can figure out a good spot.  The peeling was fun and not too hard.  I ended up cutting the luffa into four pieces.  I gave one to my daughter for a bath sponge and kept the others to use in the kitchen sink.
> 
> View attachment 297842
> 
> View attachment 297843
> 
> View attachment 297844
> 
> 
> I’m also including here a fun picture that my mother sent me.  She planted seeds from a mixed pack of winter squash.  Nothing in the pack is supposed to be a Fairytale-type pumpkin, but that’s one of the plants she got.  This specimen is over a foot in diameter.
> 
> View attachment 297845



That's cool!


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## Dan Freeman

I was able to get some work done in the pond today trying to smooth out the sides. Here is what it looks like before smoothing out.



Here is what it looks like after smoothing out.




It is very hard to smooth the side walls out since there are so many rocks in the soil. I still have a lot of voids and jutting rocks. I was thinking of making a slurry of screened clay and trying to coat the sides, but I don't know if I want to go through all that. I think I may just fill the larger voids and pay a visit to a local carpeting company on Monday and see if I can get some old carpeting they have pulled out of a house. This way I can put down about 2-3 inches of screened soil on the bottom, cut and drape the carpeting on the sides, and then put in the underlayment over the carpeting and bottom soil and then lay the liner down.

Here's where I ended up by the end of the day. I still have to trim the side walls on one side...the deeper end.


----------



## clancey

Gosh ---------Looks like "Lake Erie". It sure looks like its coming along and good for you and can't wait until you fill it up-----you could go swimming--lol. That luffa"s looks neat and I never knew where "luffa's came from and now I know.  Bg that squash is big enough to be a pumpkin. and those Pomidoro"s look wonderful and "six foot high"--wow...Lime it's about time you 'cleaned up that mess in the back 40 and they just left the furniture for you to fool with...That happened to me too--left over furniture and a broken stove with a non working refrigerator that I had to get rid of when I moved into my small house years ago.. Happy work everyone ..clancey


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## woodey

What difference a year makes. Last year I didn’t harvest a single pepper. Stuffed peppers on the menu!


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## Dan Freeman

Great looking peppers, @woodey. I love stuffed peppers. I sometimes make stuffed peppers with my peppers as well. I also wait to let some of my California Wonder Bells turn red. Then, I pick a combination of green and red ones and make sausage and peppers. So good. What variety is that you grew? They look like California Wonder Bells.


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## begreen

They look great. Our bell peppers are smaller. Next year I may try the Calif. Wonders. This year we are trying Beaver Dam peppers for the first time. They are a Hungarian Bell pepper of medium heat. Very tasty, but spicy. I think they will be good for stuffing too.


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## DuaeGuttae

@woodey , those are big, beautiful bell peppers!  Congratulations.

@begreen, are Beaver Dam Peppers really bells?  Would you share some pictures of the plants and peppers, please?  After you mentioned them earlier this year, I got some seeds.  I have two growing in my garden now, but they haven’t started flowering yet.

We were blessed to receive a far-flung band of tropical moisture yesterday that gave us two sets of sprinkles and one brief thunderstorm.  All told, it was about three tenths of an inch of rain.  It wasn’t much but enough to perk up some of the plants in the landscape that were wilting and to give me some more water in the rain tanks.  I had hoped for more storms today, but we missed out.  We did have lots of cloud cover, though, and I ended up with a day off of homeschooling because of sickness in the family.  I took the opportunity to remove the shade cloth from the garden since it’s supposed to be a cloudier week.  I also planted some more Sunn Hemp seeds in the bare soil in my backyard cinder block bed since it got a good soaking yesterday from roof run-off.


----------



## begreen

DuaeGuttae said:


> @begreen, are Beaver Dam Peppers really bells? Would you share some pictures of the plants and peppers, please? After you mentioned them earlier this year, I got some seeds. I have two growing in my garden now, but they haven’t started flowering yet.


They are kind of like a fat poblano with light green skin that we are told will go red. Sorry for the poor picture. My body is blocking the late afternoon sunlight. This is a medium-sized one. There are at least 8 on this plant some bigger, some smaller.


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## Dan Freeman

Is that an Enduraplas rain tank? The construction looks like the one I have on order.


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## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> They are kind of like a fat poblano with light green skin that we are told will go red. Sorry for the poor picture. My body is blocking the late afternoon sunlight. This is a medium-sized one. There are at least 8 on this plant some bigger, some smaller.
> 
> View attachment 297930


Thanks so much for the picture, Begreen.  I’d be delighted if I end up with peppers like that.


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## DuaeGuttae

Dan Freeman said:


> View attachment 297949
> 
> 
> Is that an Enduraplas rain tank? The construction looks like the one I have on order.


Yes, it is Enduraplas brand.  This one is 870 gallons, I believe.  We also have one that is 1150 gallons.  We had to get a little creative with the downspout for this one as you can see from the picture, but this way it catches water from two different gutters that serve  a very large area of the house roof, but is a bit hidden by our front porch.  These are our newest tanks, only a couple of years old, so I can’t speak from experience about longevity.  They are very solid, though, and it has been a huge blessing for us to capture water with them.


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## EatenByLimestone

Put up another batch of tomatoes in the freezer.   We aren’t getting as many as I thought we would, but that’s how it goes.


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## Dan Freeman

DuaeGuttae said:


> Yes, it is Enduraplas brand.  This one is 870 gallons, I believe.  We also have one that is 1150 gallons.  We had to get a little creative with the downspout for this one as you can see from the picture, but this way it catches water from two different gutters that serve  a very large area of the house roof, but is a bit hidden by our front porch.  These are our newest tanks, only a couple of years old, so I can’t speak from experience about longevity.  They are very solid, though, and it has been a huge blessing for us to capture water with them.


Ours is going to be 550, just a baby. We also will have to get creative with the inlet since it is 4-inch corrugated pipe that empties from our house and warehouse roofs. I did a lot of research before choosing Enduraplas. They have a good reputation, and supposedly produce one of the best tanks in the industry. I know they are the only company that gives a 10-year warranty.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

Dan Freeman said:


> Ours is going to be 550, just a baby. We also will have to get creative with the inlet since it is 4-inch corrugated pipe that empties from our house and warehouse roofs. I did a lot of research before choosing Enduraplas. They have a good reputation, and supposedly produce one of the best tanks in the industry. I know they are the only company that gives a 10-year warranty.


Mine are babies, too, compared to some of the ones around here.  If I remember sometime, I’ll try to get a photo of the tank that collects water from the roof of a nearby library.  It’s huge.

When we moved here, we had two homemade rain barrels: a 55 gallon and a 35 gallon.  It didn’t take us long to figure out that that was not what we needed in this climate.  Our first tanks that we bought weren’t Enduraplas, but they’ve been fine so far.  They were one at 500 gallons and two at 250 gallons.  We used those for a couple years before we invested in the larger tanks.  We use every single one of those tanks and barrels, and we could even use a few more probably.  The rain here tends to come, when it comes at all, in flooding torrents.  Even small amounts of rain produce a lot of run-off for us with our hip and valley roof.  The 870 gallon tank seems to have picked up almost 300 hundred gallons, though that’s a very rough estimate based on where the temperature changes on the outside when the sun is on it.

I seem to have picked up a stomach bug from my children.  It took all my energy this morning to move the transfer pump to our barn to pump 50 gallons over to the 870 tank.  Then I moved the pump over to the 870 tank, and it’s pumping now over to the 500 gallon tank at our garden.  Now I’m resting until the oven timer goes off to tell me to check the water levels in the two tanks.  My little six year old was a trooper hauling hoses for me while I moved the pump and extension cord.  I hope the garden can make it all day without extra water.  It was still a bit damp this morning, but it’s getting sunny out there, and there’s no shade cloth anymore.


----------



## woodey

Dan Freeman said:


> Great looking peppers, @woodey. I love stuffed peppers. I sometimes make stuffed peppers with my peppers as well. I also wait to let some of my California Wonder Bells turn red. Then, I pick a combination of green and red ones and make sausage and peppers. So good. What variety is that you grew? They look like California Wonder Bells.





Dan Freeman said:


> Great looking peppers, @woodey. I love stuffed peppers. I sometimes make stuffed peppers with my peppers as well. I also wait to let some of my California Wonder Bells turn red. Then, I pick a combination of green and red ones and make sausage and peppers. So good. What variety is that you grew? They look like California Wonder Bells.


I always keep the plastic markers naming the variety but this year I can't find them. I probably forgot where I put them, but  I did have help planting this year along with my 3 year old grandson so I will pin the blame on him.
,


----------



## Dan Freeman

Yes, DG, they make those Enduraplas rain tanks up to 10,400 gallons!

This is the driest summer we've had since the late 90's. My well is "limping" every day now. When I water, I lose pressure at a point and stop watering for the day. I am concentrating on the fruit trees and bushes since I have about $3000 invested in them in the past two years... and vegetables if the pressure lasts. I don't mind losing the annual flowers, but I stand to lose all those perennials I started from seeds this past Spring. Finally, Monday and Tuesday are looking good for rain (right now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ). I heard on the news if it comes through, we could see a minimum of 1/2 to 1 inch over the two days, perhaps more. That's what we need a soft rain that will soak in, not a downpour that will run off. It won't end the drought, but it will help a lot if we get it.


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## Dan Freeman

Today, I took all the eggplants (6) out of their pots and mulched them. I saved the soil to put into one of the raised beds. At least we got one huge eggplant parm dinner from them. I don't think I will plant eggplants again next year. They always seem to be a disappointment.

I also unpotted 4 of my 10 California Wonder Bells. The blossom end rot continues to haunt me, but I picked enough today to make a big pan of sausage and peppers...with our peppers and some of the onions we grew. We should get 2 main meals out of this.




I super bloomed the remaining 6 California Wonder Bells, the 9 Shishitos, and the 5 Tiny Tim's in the greenhouse.

I also trimmed the heck out of our Chicago Hardy Fig Tree, leaving only the 5 pieces that have figs, hoping the energy will go into the figs before the first frost. I fertilized the fig with kelp seaweed fertilizer.

I also gave a jolt of kelp fertilizer to our basil and parsley. We have already dried a lot of it for use during the winter, but I want to see if I can get another bunch of each for drying.


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## DuaeGuttae

Dan Freeman said:


> Yes, DG, they make those Enduraplas rain tanks up to 10,400 gallons!
> 
> This is the driest summer we've had since the late 90's. My well is "limping" every day now. When I water, I lose pressure at a point and stop watering for the day. I am concentrating on the fruit trees and bushes since I have about $3000 invested in them in the past two years... and vegetables if the pressure lasts. I don't mind losing the annual flowers, but I stand to lose all those perennials I started from seeds this past Spring. Finally, Monday and Tuesday are looking good for rain (right now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ). I heard on the news if it comes through, we could see a minimum of 1/2 to 1 inch over the two days, perhaps more. That's what we need a soft rain that will soak in, not a downpour that will run off. It won't end the drought, but it will help a lot if we get it.


I’m so sorry to hear about the dry conditions and the “limping” well.  Have you had that happen before?  I’m sure you’ll be glad to get your rain tank when it finally comes.  I do hope you get some good rain in the coming days.  A good soaking rain does wonders that no amount of watering can ever do.

I took a look at the US Drought Monitor for your area today and was surprised to see how much drought there was In the Northeast.  I heard there was a storm coming for New England.  Maybe it’s already happened.  My week has been a bit of a blur.






						| U.S. Drought Monitor
					






					droughtmonitor.unl.edu
				




We have a shot at some rain this evening.  I sure hope we get it.  Earlier our temperature dropped, and there were cooler winds blowing from the north and east, but so far no precipitation.  My garden plants were all wilted down today despite my good watering yesterday.  They aren’t used to it without the shade cloth, and this morning the sky was really clear (despite our forecast for cloudy days this week).  I assume that the soil is losing water a lot faster without the cloth, too.  It may have been too early to take it off, but I’m going to leave it off now since we do have some rain chances.  It lets the rain through, but it does decrease the amount somewhat.  Now that the sun angle is changing, the temperature is a bit less unreasonable, and there are some shots at showers, I hope the garden will benefit.

I have never had great success with eggplant either, and I haven’t managed any successful transplants this fall.  My mom tells me that she found Black Beauty (the type currently in my garden) harder to grow successfully than some of the long Asian types.  I think these would be the Ichiban-type that @begreen grows.  The name Pingtung Long comes to my mind as a good open pollinated one, Orient Express as a good hybrid.  They aren’t the big Italian types for Parmesan, of course, but somehow my plants don’t produce big Italian types, just small ones.


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## EatenByLimestone

I'd get a single eggplant off of a plant per year.   It didn't seem worth the hassle.   I was probably doing something wrong.   

I have lots of very small peppers coming out.  I hope they continue to develop.   Itll make my wife happy.


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## Dan Freeman

DuaeGuttae said:


> I’m so sorry to hear about the dry conditions and the “limping” well.  Have you had that happen before?  I’m sure you’ll be glad to get your rain tank when it finally comes.  I do hope you get some good rain in the coming days.  A good soaking rain does wonders that no amount of watering can ever do.


Only once before in the late 90's.


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## begreen

We may be late and limping along this year, but I harvested 4 nice Ichiban eggplants and a basket of cherry tomatoes today. Tomorrow I will be picking about 5 Early Girl tomatoes.


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## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> We may be late and limping along this year, but I harvested 4 nice Ichiban eggplants and a basket of cherry tomatoes today. Tomorrow I will be picking about 5 Early Girl tomatoes.


That sounds lovely, Begreen.

My harvest this morning was 1 tiny, flea-beetle-bitten eggplant and three pods of okra.




I’ve learned that if I try to wait too long for them to get bigger, they end up getting seedy and bitter.  Normally with just one eggplant this small, I would blend it up with tomatoes and other vegetables to make pizza sauce (we love eggplant in our pizza sauce), but I have no tomatoes bearing right now.  

I took this picture just to show how sad my eggplants can be (this one is particularly sad, but I have never managed a large one, though I do get multiple small ones).  When I picked it up for the picture, though, my ten year old saw it and was so excited because she loves eggplant.  I think I’ll end up sautéing it with a few okra pods and onions, and she and I will enjoy it.

We ended up with no rain yesterday sadly.  It went all around us, but thankfully some nearby communities like Uvalde which really needed it got some significant totals.  I believe that several of the wells for their water system have run dry, and they’ve been having to truck water to distribute it.  I hope this will recharge their wells.  It was a lot of rain in some places, but I haven’t heard of damage or harm from it.

A friend of mine recently shared this website with me that tracks rainfall totals from radar for the most recent 72 hours down to one hour intervals.  I haven’t had a lot of time to check how accurate it appears to be, but the couple of times we’ve had rain since I’ve learned of it have matched pretty well with our rain gauge.  The 0.00 inches was right for us yesterday, even though all around us with green spots with some measurable rainfall.









						Rainfall totals for the last 24 hours to 3 days - high resolution map – iWeatherNet
					

Radar-estimated precipitation accumulation for the past 24 hours to 3 days. High resolution and interactive rainfall data on Google Maps.



					www.iweathernet.com
				




I thought some of you might appreciate knowing about the site if you didn’t already.


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## Dan Freeman

This is a picture of the side of the pond where I smeared mud on it last week and the right side where I have done nothing. The mud held although it cracked, which I expected. Tomorrow, I am going to coat the entire side with mud.




Today, I added about 100+ gallons of sifted clay around the pond to contour it and watered it in. The concrete blocks at the far end (in first pic) and near end (in 2nd pic) were placed to create a solid edge for the shallow end.





I hope to put the underlayment and the pond liner in on Sunday before the rain starts Sunday afternoon. If I don't and get an inch or two on top of the clay bottom, I'll have to wait another week to get the underlayment and liner down.

A pic of the FF from our deck. Haven't taken one in a while. You can see we have made great progress with the wood chips. Just got another delivery of 10 cubic yards today.


----------



## begreen

DuaeGuttae said:


> I’ve learned that if I try to wait too long for them to get bigger, they end up getting seedy and bitter. Normally with just one eggplant this small, I would blend it up with tomatoes and other vegetables to make pizza sauce (we love eggplant in our pizza sauce), but I have no tomatoes bearing right now.


I try not to grow an eggplant that can get bitter. Ichiban is a reliable producer here and another good variety is Megal. We have never had a bitter experience with either, even when larger. This year someone gave me some Galina which I am trying for the first time and I bought a Black Beauty because the nursery I buy my Megal starts from didn't have them this year.

Meanwhile, I cleaned out the corn patch today to get it ready for January King cabbage. While doing it I found this onion I missed. It had grown into a 2 pounder.


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## begreen

That is quite a change and a lot of work from the beginning of the year Dan. It looks great.


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## EatenByLimestone

DG, 

Are you getting a tropical storm?



			https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/storm_graphics/AT04/refresh/AL042022_5day_cone_no_line_and_wind+png/233253_5day_cone_no_line_and_wind.png


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## Dan Freeman

This morning we were out at 7am to beat the heat. Worked for 3 hours. I finished putting clay mud on the sides to fill the big holes and smooth the walls as much as possible. Then, we put about 1-2 inches of sifted clay on the bottom.

We're ready to put in the underlayment. Might get that done this afternoon depending on how hot it feels when I get back out there.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

EatenByLimestone said:


> DG,
> 
> Are you getting a tropical storm?
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/storm_graphics/AT04/refresh/AL042022_5day_cone_no_line_and_wind+png/233253_5day_cone_no_line_and_wind.png



No, it’s south of us.  There’s a slight possibility of showers tomorrow.  We’re more likely to get rain later in the week, though, if a front moves down from the Red River Valley.  The forecast had temperatures in the 80’s on Tuesday and beyond.  I hope it’s true.

@Dan Freeman, that pond looks great.  I’ll be excited to see it when it’s all done, as I’m sure you will be, too.
Thanks for the picture of the food forest as well.  You’ve done a lot of work, and I bet it’s great to look down on it from the back of your house.


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## Dan Freeman

Down in the FF bright and early this morning.

We got the underlayment down.




And then we got the 45 MIL EDPM liner in place. Hard work with the liner. It weighs 150 lbs.






It is supposed to rain all day tomorrow and part of the day on Tuesday. That is why we worked overtime getting the underlayment and liner in, so the clay doesn't get all mucky again.

With the conditions as dry as they are, who knows when we will get the pond filled. I don't want to tax our well any more than we have to right now. We did extend the drainage pipe from our roof another 100 feet, and could use that to fill the pond, but I would want to be on sight as it filled to make adjustments in the liner. Since the rain is supposed to start at 4am, I opted not to run the drainage pipe into the pond right now. Perhaps, once day breaks, I may go out in the rain and redirect the drainage pipe to start filling the pond while I make liner adjustments. We'll see.


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## begreen

That EPDM is tough stuff. I got a bunch from a decommissioned pond and have used it for between row weed control and wood stack top covers. 
What happens to the outer edges that are not in the water? Will they get covered with an earth berm?


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## Dan Freeman

begreen said:


> That EPDM is tough stuff. I got a bunch from a decommissioned pond and have used it for between row weed control and wood stack top covers.
> What happens to the outer edges that are not in the water? Will they get covered with an earth berm?


Once we fill the pond, we will trim to outer edges to about 1 to 1.5 feet around the pond and put rocks all around the pond to hide the liner. As with the rest of the FF, we will put wood chips right up to the back of the rocks around the edge.

You are right about the 45 MIL EDPM. It is very strong stuff. I will have a good bit left over once I trim this pond. I will use it for other projects where I need some rubber cushioning. That's what I did with the left-over parts from the pond we installed in 2017 in our back yard.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

@Dan Freeman, congratulations on getting the liner in before the rain.  Now you just need a good rain to start the filling and to help recharge that well.  I’m rooting for both of us to get some this week.

Yesterday my husband and I and worked on filling our second compost tumbler.  We have a two tumbler system so that we can stop adding to one and let it decompose and cure while we start adding to the other.  One has some fairly nice-looking compost in it right now, but I’m letting it break down more and will perhaps use it to side dress corn and rhubarb at the end of this month as well as to add to areas for fall planting.




The one we worked on yesterday has been getting our kitchen scraps for several weeks, but we hadn’t really added a big carbon load to it yet.  We have oodles of leaves, but we like to run them over with a lawnmower before adding them.  Yesterday my husband pulled out the lawnmower and got to work.  We did shred some leaves that my six year old had piled up for us with his toy excavator, but most of our carbon additions this time were other materials.  We had three bags of solarized garden debris from the end of the season last year that we added, mostly tomato, squash, and cucumber vines, as well as some sprouts of nandina that we had pulled up a couple of weeks ago, so all that got shredded and added as well.  (The nandina had actually been buried in the compost bin so that its green leaves would decompose in there.  We just pulled out the woody skeletons and added them to the shredding piles.). We have a harder time coming up with nitrogen inputs because we don’t have much grass, and what we have certainly hasn’t grown in this drought.  I found a few volunteer tomato plants in our herb planter, a passionflower vine that was trying to take over a Texas sage bush, some horehound, pokeweed, and thistles.  That still wasn’t a lot of green compared to the brown, so I also mixed up a slurry of cottonseed meal and alfalfa pellets in rainwater and added that.  It’s heating up nicely now.  I’m looking forward to emptying the first bin soon so that we’ll get to start over again with our kitchen scraps, but scraps will keep going into here until that other bin is ready.



@begreen, I forgot to congratulate you on your super-sized onion the other day.  I think that one onion all by itself could make you and your wife a lovely dinner of French onion soup.


----------



## JbTech

DuaeGuttae said:


> We ended up with no rain yesterday sadly.  It went all around us, but thankfully some nearby communities like Uvalde which really needed it got some significant totals.  I believe that several of the wells for their water system have run dry, and they’ve been having to truck water to distribute it.  I hope this will recharge their wells.  It was a lot of rain in some places, but I haven’t heard of damage or harm from it.
> 
> A friend of mine recently shared this website with me that tracks rainfall totals from radar for the most recent 72 hours down to one hour intervals.  I haven’t had a lot of time to check how accurate it appears to be, but the couple of times we’ve had rain since I’ve learned of it have matched pretty well with our rain gauge.  The 0.00 inches was right for us yesterday, even though all around us with green spots with some measurable rainfall.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rainfall totals for the last 24 hours to 3 days - high resolution map – iWeatherNet
> 
> 
> Radar-estimated precipitation accumulation for the past 24 hours to 3 days. High resolution and interactive rainfall data on Google Maps.
> 
> 
> 
> www.iweathernet.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought some of you might appreciate knowing about the site if you didn’t already.



We received two monster storms in the last two days. Each with substantial rain. Best thunderstorms I can remember in a while.

That map seems accurate. Just over 2 inches in 72 hours.

Closest "Large" town 12 miles North had severe flooding. They showed just over 6 inches in that same period.


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## Dan Freeman

JbTech said:


> We received two monster storms in the last two days. Each with substantial rain. Best thunderstorms I can remember in a while.
> 
> That map seems accurate. Just over 2 inches in 72 hours.
> 
> Closest "Large" town 12 miles North had severe flooding. They showed just over 6 inches in that same period.



Hi @JbTech That's a food amount of rain. It seems like the whole US is suffering. Also nice to "see a new face" in the Gardening Forum. Hope you stick around.

We had some rain last night and this morning. Supposed to get more this afternoon...maybe 1 inch in total. We haven't seen any significant rain here in well over a month other than an errant sprinkle. There are trees that are dropping leaves already without turning colors...just dead.


----------



## begreen

Imagine what our trees are going through with an average of less than .2" of rain in the months of July and August for the past 5-6 years.


----------



## JbTech

Dan Freeman said:


> Hi @JbTech That's a food amount of rain. It seems like the whole US is suffering. Also nice to "see a new face" in the Gardening Forum. Hope you stick around.
> 
> We had some rain last night and this morning. Supposed to get more this afternoon...maybe 1 inch in total. We haven't seen any significant rain here in well over a month other than an errant sprinkle. There are trees that are dropping leaves already without turning colors...just dead.


I've been following this thread all year. It's neat to see other folks contributions. 

Knock on wood, we've had an above average rainfall type of year. Not sure where to find the records, but rough estimates of .25in every few days. I've even had to skip mowing several times to avoid the wet grass. 
Not the norm for most of the country, for sure.

My garden is like most others. Odd year / cooler temps have Maters just beginning to ripen. Cherry Tomatoes are just about finished. Cucumbers have been doing well. On my second planting of those.


----------



## Dan Freeman

JbTech said:


> I've been following this thread all year. It's neat to see other folks contributions.



Good! Now, you are a contributor.  😊


----------



## begreen

JbTech said:


> My garden is like most others. Odd year / cooler temps have Maters just beginning to ripen. Cherry Tomatoes are just about finished. Cucumbers have been doing well. On my second planting of those.


I should have planted a second crop of cucumbers in July. The huge greenhouse cucumber plant is getting attacked by something that is stripping the surface of the stems and the skin of some of the cukes. It is having trouble staying hydrated because of this and wilting during the day. It's a sad sight, this has been a prolific bearer of dozens of grade A cukes. Inspection is not showing up the culprit.

Has anyone had this problem?


----------



## Dan Freeman

begreen said:


> I should have planted a second crop of cucumbers in July. The huge greenhouse cucumber plant is getting attacked by something that is stripping the surface of the stems and the skin of some of the cukes. It is having trouble staying hydrated because of this and wilting during the day. It's a sad sight, this has been a prolific bearer of dozens of grade A cukes. Inspection is not showing up the culprit.
> 
> Has anyone had this problem?
> View attachment 298174
> View attachment 298175


Sorry to hear this. Cukes are so vulnerable to so many pests and problems. Mine were a big disappointment this year.


----------



## begreen

They can be, but this is the first time that I don't know what I am up against. If I could just catch the buggers in action I would feel better.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

I'd love some rain!    We need it pretty badly.


----------



## JbTech

EatenByLimestone said:


> I'd love some rain!    We need it pretty badly.



At least locally, we've had more than our share this year. 
500 gallon storage totes off the gutters, and this is the 1st year I haven't had to supplement with paid water.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Went out to water the garden and some of the plants looked chewed.  Huh.   A woodchuck dug under my exclusion!  Gonna have to bring a trap home.


----------



## woodey

begreen said:


> I should have planted a second crop of cucumbers in July. The huge greenhouse cucumber plant is getting attacked by something that is stripping the surface of the stems and the skin of some of the cukes. It is having trouble staying hydrated because of this and wilting during the day. It's a sad sight, this has been a prolific bearer of dozens of grade A cukes. Inspection is not showing up the culprit.
> 
> Has anyone had this problem?
> View attachment 298174
> View attachment 298175


My cuke stems look very much  like yours.  Very frustrating to have plenty of blossoms and see the plant die off early. My winter squash plants also suffer from grubs that burrow into the stem at ground level and feast on the inside slowly killing the plant. Last year while pulling the plants I cut into the stem and found the culprit, white grubs.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

woodey said:


> My cuke stems look very much  like yours.  Very frustrating to have plenty of blossoms and see the plant die off early. My winter squash plants also suffer from grubs that burrow into the stem at ground level and feast on the inside slowly killing the plant. Last year while pulling the plants I cut into the stem and found the culprit, white grubs.


Squash Vine Borers.  Ugh.  They have killed every single one of my zucchini plants this year so far, except the one that I’ve been growing inside until recently and just transplanted into the garden.

I have a Seminole Pumpkin vine growing, and I can see where they’ve gotten into it, but so far it’s surviving.  The Moschata species (butternut squash and Seminole Pumpkin and others) are supposed to be a little more resistant because they have solid stems instead of hollow, but I have so much SVB pressure down here in Texas, that nothing stands for long.

Maybe because I keep persisting in trying to grow squashes, I haven’t seen them get into my cucumbers.  @begreen, the stem on your photo did remind me a bit of borer damage, but I didn’t see an actual hole into the stem.  Usually one can find that and see sawdust-looking frass from their excavations that has been pushed out of the stem.

Did you say that this pest is actually stripping the skin off the cucumber fruits themselves?  Do you have a photo of that?  I don’t have any good ideas of what it might be; I’d just be interested in seeing what that damage looks like. 

On a happier note, we got rain!  About half an inch this afternoon/evening.  There’s a lull now, but we have the possibility of more overnight.  We also have chances for isolated or scattered storms tomorrow into Wednesday.    This is huge for us.  I’m so thankful.


----------



## begreen

I thought that the squash borer wasn't out west, but who knows. Does the squash borer chew up stems of the plant like this?



Here is the surface of a cucumber. It is an outdoor plant, but also seems afflicted.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

@begreen, I’m sorry.  My Squash Vine Borer post was directed more at Woodey’s problem than at yours.  I just looked up the range of SVB, and it does look at though the west coast is spared that particular pest.

Have you done anything to try to protect your greenhouse plant?  Yellow sticky traps?  A neem spray.  I assume that you don’t have beneficials in there to worry about, but maybe that’s a bad assumption.

I did find a picture that caught my eye on a Clemson Fact Sheet.  As soon as you open the page, it shows cucumber beetle damage on a watermelon.  Obviously this is a South Carolina publication, but Washington does have its own cucumber beetles.









						Cucumber, Squash, Melon & Other Cucurbit Insect Pests
					

Cucumber Beetles The spotted, striped, and banded cucumber beetles are very harmful to cucurbits (members of the gourd family, including cucumbers,...




					hgic.clemson.edu
				




The next link is an Oregon publication, but I found the chart that compared the two beetles helpful.  It says that the Striped Cucumber Beetle does feed on fruits of cucurbits.  The article notes that populations can be quite high in August through October.

I also read that the beetles can transmit bacterial wilt.  You mentioned the plant wilting.  If it dies and you remove it, are you familiar with cutting the stem and checking for slime?  That can help indicate the presence of bacterial wilt.









						Cucumber Beetles (12S and SCB)
					

Cucumber beetles are major plant pests. As rootworms (larvae), they feed underground, which affects plant health and increases the risk for pathogens. Above-ground, the adult beetles consume foliag…




					agsci-labs.oregonstate.edu
				




The thing I find most mysterious, though, is why you aren’t seeing any.  I would think they’d be crawling on your plants and you’d be finding them.  I’m sure that’s what has you so confused as well.  I wonder just how sensitive a game camera would have to be to catch a picture of an insect?  I’ve had them get butterflies before but not beetles as far as I know.


----------



## begreen

Thanks for the links. So far no sign of cucumber beetle. I thought about a game camera, but don't have one. So far I have not seen any insects on any of our squash family plants. I am going to do a super inspection tomorrow.


----------



## woodey

begreen said:


> Does the squash borer chew up stems of the plant like this?


My stems look like yours, but only grubs I have seen were always near the base of the stem.


----------



## woodey

DuaeGuttae said:


> Squash Vine Borers.  Ugh.  They have killed every single one of my zucchini plants this year so far, except the one that I’ve been growing inside until recently and just transplanted into the garden.
> 
> I have a Seminole Pumpkin vine growing, and I can see where they’ve gotten into it, but so far it’s surviving.  The Moschata species (butternut squash and Seminole Pumpkin and others) are supposed to be a little more resistant because they have solid stems instead of hollow, but I have so much SVB pressure down here in Texas, that nothing stands for long.
> 
> Maybe because I keep persisting in trying to grow squashes, I haven’t seen them get into my cucumbers.  @begreen, the stem on your photo did remind me a bit of borer damage, but I didn’t see an actual hole into the stem.  Usually one can find that and see sawdust-looking frass from their excavations that has been pushed out of the stem.
> 
> Did you say that this pest is actually stripping the skin off the cucumber fruits themselves?  Do you have a photo of that?  I don’t have any good ideas of what it might be; I’d just be interested in seeing what that damage looks like.
> 
> On a happier note, we got rain!  About half an inch this afternoon/evening.  There’s a lull now, but we have the possibility of more overnight.  We also have chances for isolated or scattered storms tomorrow into Wednesday.    This is huge for us.  I’m so thankful.


The cukes are actually doing better than I have had in a few years. No damage on the skins at all. In the past my plants  have been near dead this time of the year, this is them today.


----------



## begreen

woodey said:


> My stems look like yours, but only grubs I have seen were always near the base of the stem.


Do the grubs come out at night? Otherwise, how do they strip up the stems so high?


----------



## DuaeGuttae

My squash vine borer damage looks like this.  It looks similar, but I don’t think it’s the same.  The borers burrow into the vine and kill it from the inside out.  They don’t strip skin off the outside.  I really think @woodey ’s description of the grub is the Squash Vine Borer, and geographically those don’t seem to be your culprit, @begreen.  Because I trellis vines, this damage is actually around my eye level.  Borers do like to attack the stem right where it comes of of the ground, but they’ll attack other spots as well.  The get my zucchini right at the base, though, so that it rots off right there.




I found an article (from Canada) that shows Striped cucumber beetle damage on a cucumber fruit, and if you look closely at the leading picture, you can see how the vine is stripped a bit, too.  Your descriptions seem to fit that type of damage.  In the second paragraph the describes the larvae “girdling” stems, which sound like they come from the outside.  At the same time, I’ve read of them tunneling through the stem and killing them that way, so I’m not really sure of the mechanism.









						Striped Cucumber Beetles Damage and Control
					

Striped Cucumber Beetle Adult – Acalymma vittatum (one of the antennas is missing). Does it look as though something has been chewing on the leaves of your cucumber, squash, me…




					horticultureforhomegardeners.ca
				




@begreen, have you sent pictures to your local extension agent?


----------



## Dan Freeman

The plumber is here today. He is putting in the new well pump, well tank, doing all the piping, and putting in a frost-free spigot outside the well house. Next, we need to get the electrician back here to do the wiring from our shed to the well house. Then, we will be able to use this well to water the gardens and not tax our house well equipment.

I was able to collect at least a foot+ of rainwater at the bottom of the pond from yesterday's rain. I don't think it is deep enough yet to operate the solar pump since it will be sitting on a crate, so it does not pull sludge in over time. In any event, once the plumber leaves, I am going to set up the pump and the solar panels in a temporary location near the pond. Eventually I will locate the solar panels near the edge of the food forest fence. I also want to drain about 50 gallons from our small pond near the backyard deck to begin to inoculate the water with bacteria. I also plan to move some of the floating plants from the small pond to the large pond. I did order some Frogbit and hornwort online yesterday, but those plants will probably not arrive for a few more days. They are good oxygenating plants and help to absorb nutrients to cut down on algae. Everything I read though says I can expect green water to form and remain for up to a year before I get all the plants established and mature. Another adventure!

Added later:
Today, after the plumber left (with a check for over $2200 from what the neighbors stole!), I added some water lettuce to the new pond, hooked up the solar pump and temporarily placed the solar panels. I also added some more water from our main well since we didn't water yesterday or today. After about 20 minutes, the well pressure dropped to nothing. I couldn't even water the greenhouse today because of that. I am now waiting for a bit of water pressure so I can take a shower.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Dan,

I think you need at least 1 rubber duck for your pond!


----------



## begreen

DuaeGuttae said:


> My squash vine borer damage looks like this.  It looks similar, but I don’t think it’s the same.  The borers burrow into the vine and kill it from the inside out.  They don’t strip skin off the outside.  I really think @woodey ’s description of the grub is the Squash Vine Borer, and geographically those don’t seem to be your culprit, @begreen.  Because I trellis vines, this damage is actually around my eye level.  Borers do like to attack the stem right where it comes of of the ground, but they’ll attack other spots as well.  The get my zucchini right at the base, though, so that it rots off right there.
> 
> View attachment 298201
> 
> 
> I found an article (from Canada) that shows Striped cucumber beetle damage on a cucumber fruit, and if you look closely at the leading picture, you can see how the vine is stripped a bit, too.  Your descriptions seem to fit that type of damage.  In the second paragraph the describes the larvae “girdling” stems, which sound like they come from the outside.  At the same time, I’ve read of them tunneling through the stem and killing them that way, so I’m not really sure of the mechanism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Striped Cucumber Beetles Damage and Control
> 
> 
> Striped Cucumber Beetle Adult – Acalymma vittatum (one of the antennas is missing). Does it look as though something has been chewing on the leaves of your cucumber, squash, me…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> horticultureforhomegardeners.ca
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @begreen, have you sent pictures to your local extension agent?


Thanks. I will read up on these links. I sprayed the plants with neem oil and spinosad twice. Hope that helps.


----------



## Dan Freeman

I was able to get another 6-8 inches of water into the pond today before my well started to slow down. The water is beginning to creep up on the shelf at the lower side. I also moved the 2 solar panels from near the pond on the ground to the edge of the FF mounted on poles (but I forgot to take a picture of them).


----------



## Dan Freeman

I got another 6 inches of water into the pond (about 8-10 inches to go) before the well quit. We have to let the well "rest" for an hour or so, so we can both take showers after working. I decided not to water the gardens since they say we may get a thunderstorm later. If we don't, I'll water first thing tomorrow morning. We also got some more wood chips down in the FF. We've almost used up the 10 cubic yards we got last Friday. Time to order another 10 cubic yards.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

Dan Freeman said:


> I got another 6 inches of water into the pond (about 8-10 inches to go) before the well quit. We have to let the well "rest" for an hour or so, so we can both take showers after working. I decided not to water the gardens since they say we may get a thunderstorm later. If we don't, I'll water first thing tomorrow morning. We also got some more wood chips down in the FF. We've almost used up the 10 cubic yards we got last Friday. Time to order another 10 cubic yards.



That would worry me to be stressing the well to that extent.  I’m sure you’ll be thrilled to get the second well up and running for irrigation.

Is it critical to get the pond filled relatively quickly once you’ve put the liner in?  I hope you did get that thunderstorm to help out a little.

We got a storm yesterday afternoon while I was driving to a doctor’s appointment.  I had checked the forecast and the radar because it was looking a bit gray, and I had seedlings out to begin a little hardening off.  I didn’t want them to drown.  The radar showed the rain missing us, which was disappointing, so I left the seedlings out.  When I got home, their trays were full to the brim with water.   I was delighted.



	

		
			
		

		
	
 The sprouts on the top left are wildflowers, the ones on the bottom right a mixture of cooler season crops like beets and rhubarb and brassicas. The empty-looking ones are leek seeds which are being slow to germinate, but there are some signs of life in there.

We had a half inch of rain on Monday and got another nine tenths yesterday.  That really helped the overall landscape, the gardens, and my rain barrels.  Our 870 gallon tank is full again, and the 1150 probably has about 700 gallons.  The 870 we’ll draw down first when we need to refill the garden tank (which has about 300 now but can hold 500).  It was really nice not to have to water this morning.  We are very thankful for the rain.

I’m not sure how well the picture captures it, but the luffa plants in my backyard bed have just exploded with growth from the rain.  The new leaves are bigger, and the plants are spreading the way that I had hoped they would earlier in the summer.  Better late than never.



I have two slicing cucumber vines.  One has been hit hard by aphids.  I did spray some neem last week, but I might just pull it depending on whether it improves or not.  The other one is doing relatively well and gave us three nice cucumbers today.  My ten year old sliced them up for me and helped put together a yummy cucumber salad for our dinner.  I’m hoping the rain will lead to more female blossoms in the coming days.




The tomatoes are flowering more, and I have a fall crop of beans that seem to be growing nicely.  They’re still young, but the weather is much more rational now, so I have hopes that they’ll be able to produce in time.


----------



## Dan Freeman

My electrician was supposed to come this week to run the electricity to the 2nd well, but he came down with Covid, so it's not going to happen until next week. 

It's not critical to fill the pond once the liner is in, but once I started filling it, it becomes critical because I have to get the pump going and the plants in, so the water does not just sit stagnant and begin to grow algae.

No thunderstorm. We missed it. There is a chance of another one tomorrow. Still another 2 months before my rain tank will arrive.

Glad to hear you are getting rain again. You folks have really suffered this year. Those cucumbers look great!


----------



## Dan Freeman

I scrubbed and washed about 35 large rocks today that I will put in the pond. I want to have at least 100 done before I start to place them in the pond since it will be like a giant jig saw puzzle arranging them.

The flash storm this afternoon brought the pond up about another two inches, close to the top on one side. Now that we are close to the top, I can see where we will have to lift the liner and add more dirt to get the pond as level as possible. We will start on that tomorrow.






Also, some of the pond plants came in today.

FROGBIT: These little plants have leaves that are about the size of a nickel to a quarter. They will multiply once I have them in the pond. They are great for using the nutrients before the nutrients are available for the algae, so they will suppress algae growth. These plants will produce little nods that will drop down to the bottom of the pond and overwinter creating new plants next year.




The HORNWORT also arrived today...9 bunches. This plant is also great at oxygenating the pond and using lower-level nutrients before the nutrients develop to grow algae. They are also cold hardy to Zone 3.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

I thought that second pic was crayfish!   The lover of Cajun food in me got excited!


----------



## DuaeGuttae

Glad you got more rain, @Dan Freeman.  Is that black pipe directing roof runoff to the pond?

I made a trip to a library today and took a picture of their two rain tanks.  They’re not the Enduraplas brand, but I thought you’d like to see a big system.  The library uses the water in drip irrigation to water the landscaping and trees that immediately surround the library.





There is a nice educational exhibit about the region surrounding the first water tank.  (The second is on the other side of the library away from the parking lots.)  It includes some history, and information about the watershed and aquifer system in the area, as well as about rainwater harvesting.  Each tank can hold 12,500 gallons of water.  (I had to ask at the service desk to find that information, though perhaps I just missed it outside.)

Other newer public buildings in this area also have tanks installed.  I’ve seen one at the local high school.  I’ll have to look at City Hall.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

I had a surprise in my garden this morning.  I have a tiny (and not very promising) patch of Glass Gem Corn growing. The stalks are small and thin and starting to tassel.  When I was hunting for any signs of ears this morning (I found some), I noticed a Monarch chrysalis under one of the leaves.





I debated for a while about whether I would leave it there, but I felt that it would be in danger when I water.  I know they’re built to withstand rain, but my watering wand can be strong, and while I try to just fill ollas and water the base of needy plants, it’s a bit cumbersome to move from place to place.  I thought it might be better to relocate the chrysalis before any accident happened.

I pulled out our trusty aquarium from the shelf, wiped it out, clipped the entire corn leaf, and brought it in.  I was able to stretch the corn leaf from one side to the other and hold it on with the pieces that hold the screen.  That way the chrysalis got to stay in its same position.

I don’t know when it appeared, but I suspect that it was pretty recent.   We have milkweed on the property, some in the area where the garden is located, but it’s not that close.  I was surprised to find the chrysalis inside the garden since it would have been a pretty hefty journey for the caterpillar.  They do travel away from their host plant to pupate, but this would have been a lot of crawling.  I might have to see if our vine milkweed plant is closer than I think.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

The soil was still a bit moist this morning from our recent storm, and I had filled the ollas Wednesday, so I didn’t have to water the big gardens this morning.  I took the opportunity of extra time to remove one of my cucumber plants that has been badly infested by aphids.  I had done a neem spray last week, and I could have tried another, but the aphids were starting to move to my second plant.  I decided it was just better to get them out of the area.

I first cut off some of the growth on the second plant (the one on the right) that had aphids on it as well as cutting farther back to leave clear margins.  That still left plenty of plant.  I then removed all the leaves and vines from the first plant.  I hope that will reduce the pressure on the second plant and allow it to keep producing.  Our cucumbers have not been prolific this summer, but they have been tasty.





@begreen, any update on your cucumbers or your mystery pest?


----------



## Dan Freeman

DG, thanks for posting those pics of the water tanks. They are huge!

Yes, that large black corrugated pipe is bringing roof runoff down to the pond. The long-term plan, once I get my rain tank, is to create a 50 foot or so stream bed that will carry the overflow from the tank down to the pond. I already have the 5x50 piece of liner to build the stream. That project if for next year.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Are you putting a berm behind the FF to catch the house runoff?


----------



## Dan Freeman

Instead of a berm, I will have an overflow on the pond into 1 or more swales.


----------



## Dan Freeman

Today, I lifted up the underlayment and liner and raised up one side of the pond about 1-1 1/2 inches to level everything out. I also made a "spillway" for an overflow. Tomorrow, I will install a 1.5-inch pvc pipe in the overflow using pond foam to seal it. I will run flexible tubing to the edge of the food forest to drain any overflow, or I will re-direct it into swales.

Even though I have the solar pump, I decided to install an electric pump as well, so the pond now has 2 pumps with about 1200 gallons being circulated an hour. I realized the solar pump will probably freeze up on cold winter nights during the winter while the electric pump to the spillway will not since it will have water running 24/7. So, I will run both pumps during above-freezing temperatures, turn the solar pump off when temps go below freezing, and run the electric pump 24/7/365.

No pics today. I was so tired by the time I finished, I just couldn't walk down there again to take pictures. I think I am getting old!


----------



## begreen

Finally starting to see some regular harvests. Getting nervous about powdery mildew, it was 53º this morning but will be warming up this week.


----------



## Dan Freeman

I put all the new plants in the pond today, and while I didn't plan to do it today, I did a rough build of the waterfall. Nothing elaborate. I'll live with it for a few days, and if I still like it, I'll put pond foam between the rocks and fill the small voids with river stone.

Once finished, I will taper off the sides and the back, and then start laying rocks and river stone on the planting shelf.






Here is a brief video of the waterfall:



Here's a shot of the food forest. We're closing in on having the entire 8500 square feet covered with cardboard and wood chips.


----------



## begreen

Looking good. I like the sound of the waterfall.

DG, that's so cool to find the chrysalis. Your garden is starting to wake up from the heat. It should be doing a lot better now. 

I just planted more lettuce and some January King cabbages. Other than that we are now entering harvest mode.


----------



## Dan Freeman

If I turn the pond fountain off on the pond just below our deck (where the last pic was taken of the FF), I can hear the water from all the way down in the FF.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

Dan Freeman said:


> If I turn the pond fountain off on the pond just below our deck (where the last pic was taken of the FF), I can hear the water from all the way down in the FF.


I bet hearing the sound of the water makes it seem that all that work you’ve done is really worth it.  I know there’s a lot more to do, even after the immense amount you’ve already done, but I bet it’s satisfying to be at the point know where’s there’s enjoyment.  Good work!

8,500 square feet is a huge amount to cover with cardboard and wood chips.  Wow!


----------



## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> Looking good. I like the sound of the waterfall.
> 
> DG, that's so cool to find the chrysalis. Your garden is starting to wake up from the heat. It should be doing a lot better now.
> 
> I just planted more lettuce and some January King cabbages. Other than that we are now entering harvest mode.


It was really fun to find the chrysalis, but I’m still wondering where that little guy came from.  I’m wondering if he somehow got washed down the hill during the storm we had (water can run in a stream right down toward our garden) and just found a place where he could climb up.  It’s a beautiful chrysalis, and it’s been a while since I’ve seen one in person, but it’s smaller than I remember them being.  So far all seems well with it, though, as far as I can tell.

The garden is waking up a bit.  I noticed my first small watermelon the other day, and the plants are just perkier despite the heat going back up into the mid nineties.  (It’s still better than it was, though, and there’s more humidity and cloudiness, which makes it easier on the plants.). Just this morning my first Beaver Dam pepper blossom opened.  I’m hopeful that those plants will do well since they’re coming into maturity in a warm but not brutally hot part of the year.

I’m beginning to think about lettuce, but I’ve got a while to wait yet before it’s cool enough either outside or in for me to try to germinate any.  I am beginning some fall transplants, though.  @begreen, do you direct sow your lettuce and cabbage, or do you start it and transplant after clearing out some summer crops?


----------



## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> Finally starting to see some regular harvests. Getting nervous about powdery mildew, it was 53º this morning but will be warming up this week.
> View attachment 298433


Beautiful!


----------



## Dan Freeman

DuaeGuttae said:


> I bet hearing the sound of the water makes it seem that all that work you’ve done is really worth it.  I know there’s a lot more to do, even after the immense amount you’ve already done, but I bet it’s satisfying to be at the point know where’s there’s enjoyment.  Good work!
> 
> 8,500 square feet is a huge amount to cover with cardboard and wood chips.  Wow!



Yes, this is the fun part.

We've been coving this FF with cardboard and chips for the past 15 months. We have probably gone through well over 100 cubic yards of chips already. I have lost count.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

We had some chances for rain today, and it was supposed to be cloudy, so I took the opportunity to do some transplanting of very small seedlings today: beets, kale, cauliflower, broccoli, and rhubarb.  I watered them in both morning and afternoon since the rain didn’t materialize.  I hope we’ll get some overnight, but it seems to be just missing us.

The seedlings I transplanted are about 3:00 in this first picture.  Most of the rest are wildflower seedlings that my husband helped me pot up on Saturday.  In the front left corner is the za’atar that I started inside in mid summer.



I also harvested a green Seminole Pumpkin to use as a summer squash in our supper tonight.  I had some leftover croutons that I had made for Caesar salad the other day, so I turned those into bread crumbs and used them on chunks of the pumpkin.  I baked them in a little air fryer oven till the crumbs were crispy and the pumpkin soft, and the kids like it.  Yay!

After harvesting the pumpkin, I cut off a good chunk of the vine starting below the squash vine borer damage.  It was a big step, but I didn’t want it trying to sustain such a large amount of growth on a compromised stem.  I’d rather it focus its energy on some new branches down nearer the base.  We’ll see if anything comes of that.

Here are before and after pictures from the pruning and a picture of the green pumpkin.  I chopped the vine up for my compost bin (and looked carefully in the hollowed out part for the borer, but I didn’t find him).  I can see why these vines are supposed to be more resistant.  The pruning shears had a hard time at points because the solid stems were so thick and tough.


----------



## Dan Freeman

DG, sounds delicious the way you prepared that pumpkin. How late in the season can you still grow outside? We are about 5 weeks or so away from what is usually our first frost (Oct 1-10). I will be starting my indoor tomatoes and lettuce for the Fall/Winter soon.

We got another 10 yards of wood chips yesterday for free from an arborist we know. He doesn't deliver often, only when he is working in our area. We also have another 10 yards coming later this week from the nursery to whom we pay $10/yard. That should just about do it for this season. We will get the entire FF covered before the winter (one of our goals) and cover over a few spots that we used sawdust on when that was all we could get. Areas that have been covered since last Summer are loaded with worms and are breaking down well when I move the chips aside. Next Spring/Summer we'll add another few inches to the entire FF.

Tomatoes are already on the wane but were still getting enough.  Raspberries and blackberries are just about done.  Cucumber vines are shot and will be pulled out in the next few days. We should be harvesting our acorn and butternut squash soon, and we'll have one more harvest of beets, turnips, and carrots before the first frost. The comfrey crowns I planted two weeks ago are all coming up; the root pieces I planted have yet to sprout up.

The electrician was due to come tomorrow to hook up the power to the 2nd well, but I had to change the date to next week due to a conflict.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

Dan Freeman said:


> DG, sounds delicious the way you prepared that pumpkin. How late in the season can you still grow outside? We are about 5 weeks or so away from what is usually our first frost (Oct 1-10). I will be starting my indoor tomatoes and lettuce for the Fall/Winter soon.


Our frost free averages are March 15 to November 15, which sounds like a really long growing season.  In reality, it is more like two short growing seasons on either side of a brutally hot summer where not a lot produces.  Unfortunately my brutal heat started in May this year, so I didn’t get all that much production from a spring season. I tend not to replace all my plants for fall, but I do often cut them back and let them regrow some (things like tomatoes and eggplants and my experiment with the pumpkin yesterday).   

I try to plan for frost as soon as the end of October here when I’m making my garden plans, simply because we’ve had hard freezes twice at that time in the five years I’ve been here.  Last year we didn’t freeze till January 1st.  December was really warm, so I still had some warm season crops going then.   I had pulled my tomatoes out in November when nights started cooling, but when it warmed up in December, and I was kind of regretting that decision.

We do have some pretty hard freezes at times, but our winters can be mild enough for the most part that I can try to grow some things pretty much straight through winter like onions or lettuce.  Occasionally I lose just about everything, though, like when it went from 80 degrees to 24 degrees in one day.  That pretty much destroyed last year’s winter garden.  Thankfully I hadn’t set out the onions, so they weren’t hit.  This year I think I’m going to try growing my own onion transplants from seed, but I won’t start those till October.  

We were supposed to have some rainy, or at least overcast, days yesterday, today, and tomorrow, but the forecast changed after I set out my little seedlings.  I’ve been having to water them in the afternoons to keep them going.  Even though I spent days hardening them off outside to get them used to the sunshine, they’re having a bit of a hard time adjusting.  I hope they’ll make it.


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## Dan Freeman

Nice long season. Too bad you have to contend with that awful heat in the middle of it. Here where we are in the Pocono Mountains our last frost date is usually around Memorial Day, so with a first frost date of about Oct 1-10, our growing season is only about 4ish months. Added to that, since we are in the mountains, the nights stay pretty cool in June and begin to cool down again in September. That is one reason why I bought a greenhouse back in 2016. I can get seeds stated in late March and keep some plants going until November. I would love to grow in our greenhouse all winter, but it requires too much energy to heat it and a lot of grow lights. I have a 8 or 9 real good grow lights, so I grow what I can in my den over the winter just to keep my sanity. Now, if I had 15,000 - 25,000 to drop on a super insulated greenhouse (like a Ceres or Growing Dome), I'd be going all year!


----------



## DuaeGuttae

I have to admit that I love cool weather, and so does my husband.  Your description of cool nights in the mountains sounds wonderful to me.  I get excited when the first really cool morning comes down here, and I feel like I need a sweater or jacket.  Neither my husband nor I really wanted to move to this area, but it was the best decision for our family at the time because of his employment situation.  We‘re trying to take advantage of where we are now to grow things like citrus and olives that would be more difficult in other places.  (It’s not always easy here, though, because our temperatures can drop low enough to cause problems.  We’ve lost a number of trees, but thankfully we also have a bunch that are doing well.)  We had to replace a dead and dying hedge a few years ago, and we chose to plant young pomegranates.  They did the ”first year, sleep; second year, creep” but they didn’t quite make it to “third year, leap” because they got set back by the freeze in 2021.  They have recovered now, though, and are leaping.  They haven’t bloomed yet, but they’re filling out, and I’m looking forward to blooms in the future.

I took some pictures today to show a little of how I try to deal with the hot summer months without just ripping everything out of my garden and planting new plants.  That’s the conventional wisdom, and the stores around here sell a bunch of transplants in the summer to people who do just that.  It might be better if I did more of it, but I work so hard on my spring transplants that I do what I can to keep them going through the summer.

Here’s a picture of one of my “Captain Lucky” tomato plants.  I never actually got a fruit off of it this summer.  The heat just came on about the time it started flowering, and the pollen probably wasn’t viable anymore.  At some point I cut most of the upper growth off the plant so that it would use less water and could grow out fresh stalks from suckers.  You can see the pretty hefty scars from the cuts in the second picture.  The plant seems pretty healthy now, and it’s beginning to flower again.  I’m sure hoping it will set fruit now that we aren’t seeing constant 100 degree plus days.





That’s the strategy I’m trying now with my Seminole Pumpkin.  I cut it just below the vine borer damage, and it’s got side branches in the axils that I’m hoping will grow and flower.  I’m not aiming for mature pumpkins.  I’ll just pick the young ones like summer squash.



Here’s a Black Beauty Eggplant that I cut back that has grown out a bunch of fresh branches and foliage and is blooming and setting fruit again.  I had planned to replace these when my newer transplants took off, but when I set those young ones out, they got devoured by flea beetles to the point that they couldn’t recover.  I’m glad I still have these.




This last one has been remarkable to me.  It’s a dwarf pepper from Panama, Las Tablas Dwarf Ajicito, but it never even bloomed the entire summer.  The foliage looks great, and I don’t think it has to do with too much nitrogen or anything like that.  I think that with the heat and drought stress, all my plants just cut back on production.  This one just never even flowered, but now that the weather has cooled it‘s popping out tiny buds all over the place.  The same thing happened with my fish peppers.  I still have a whole jar of dried peppers from last year, and I gave oodles away.  This year with the major difference in weather I have not harvested one single pepper yet from that variety, but I did just see one small fruit beginning on one plant.




It has not been a good summer in my garden, but hopefully all the time I’ve spent keeping my plants alive was good exercise for me and will bear some fruit this fall.


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## begreen

DG, your perseverance and ingenuity are inspiring. I think you will have some good fall crops to brag about when we are cleaning up beds.


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## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> DG, your perseverance and ingenuity are inspiring. I think you will have some good fall crops to brag about when we are cleaning up beds.


Thanks.   I’m just hoping for something after all this work.

The kids and I just got home from a walk and found a delightful surprise.  Our butterfly had eclosed and was drying its wings.  (I had seen the chrysalis getting dark last night, but it’s still a surprise when all of a sudden there’s a butterfly.) Another surprise was that it was not actually a Monarch but a Queen (another butterfly that uses milkweed as a host plant).  We’ve seen Queens flying but have never raised one before.  We think they’re gorgeous with their richer brownish orange coloring.  My daughter took some pictures as I was helping the butterfly out of the tank.  It’s up in an oak tree now resting before a longer flight.






(@Soundchasm , I saw that you posted again recently on the forum, so I thought I’d ping you to this post.  Some background, I found a chrysalis on the corn in my garden last week.  I thought it was a monarch, and I brought it inside so that I wouldn’t accidentally bump it when watering my corn plants.)


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## Dan Freeman

Today, we cut out all the pepper plants in the greenhouse. We might have gotten more Shishitos, but I don't think we would have gotten anymore Bells. I shook off all the soil and put it in one of the raised gardens down in the FF. We're going to make a huge pan of sausage and peppers this weekend, and the rest we will vacuum pack and freeze. I am keeping the 5 Tiny Tim's for now as they are pushing out new blooms. Besides, I wanted to clean up the greenhouse so I can begin cutting, splitting and storing extra firewood, the "rounds" we have from an ash tree we had cut down. It will probably be firewood that we won't even burn this season, but it's good to get ahead of the game. We also canned a few jars of cherry tomatoes with garlic and basil for the winter.


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## Dan Freeman

Today, I used some concrete pavers to raise an area of the pond that was a bit low and probably filled about another 100-150 gallons of water. I figure the pond is 1600-1800 gallons now. I'm going to take depth measurements to narrow that gallon capacity down a little closer.  Also finished the rock work on the waterfall and trimmed the liner so it overlaps the pond by 18" all the way around. I also placed the overflow pipe, but I still have to foam it in.

Next up will be to imbed some heavy-duty landscape plastic edging on the low side to make sure we don't get run-off from the hill. This will be covered on the pond side with rocks and on the garden side with wood chips.

Once that is completed, I will lay the flat rocks all around the edge of the pond.

No pics today. I will try to take some tomorrow.


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## DuaeGuttae

Those peppers look great, @Dan Freeman.  It sounds as though your pond is coming along nicely, too. 

I took a couple of pictures yesterday of a plant that I had misidentified last year as being bindweed.  This spring it showed up in my neighbor’s garden with a seedpod, and we thought it could be a type of milkweed.  Yesterday my husband and I were checking on how much was growing near the garden (thinking that this could have been the source of the queen butterfly caterpillar), and I found an area where it was flowering extensively (after climbing all over an old lantana bush).

It has really beautiful flowers when you look closely, and this bloom allowed me to identify properly as Fringed Twinevine or Climbing Milkweed.  It’s a southwestern plant, and it is a host plant for Queen caterpillars.  This area of growth is maybe fifty feet away from the back side of my main garden, so even farther from the corn plant where I found the chrysalis.  It’s spreading, though, and I don’t want it invading my garden.  We’ve been encouraging native milkweeds, and this is one, but I can’t allow it to get to my raised beds.  (It also has the most horrible smell when the vine is broken, rather like the intense body odor of a teenage athlete who does not wear deodorant and left his sweaty workout clothes in a plastic bag for a week. ) I think I’m going to go out tomorrow and see if I see any queen caterpillar feeding on it.  (I don’t expect to find lots of them because they are also apparently cannibalistic caterpillars.). 

We’re happy to let this plant grow on our property (there’s no way we could ever eliminate it either because it’s in several spaces and spreads from over a couple different neighbors’ fences), but we’re going to have to see what we can do about keeping it out of the garden.  It got its start on our place last year during an exceptionally rainy summer.  I’m surprised it has grown back so well this year with the drought.


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## Dan Freeman

Not much happening garden-wise. It has been raining since Sunday afternoon on and off. I would say we have had about 2-3 inches, more rain than we have had in total since June. More rain for this afternoon/this evening.

I bought 2 bags of potting soil to start my indoor Tiny Tims for the winter. I am planning to plant 8 plants, but space the seed starting at 2 pots every week to 10 days. Last year I started all 8 pots at once and we were inundated with tomatoes, then a "dry" period, then inundated again. Spacing seed planting will help to have a steady supply rather than a ton at once.

My firewood guy called last night. He wanted to drop off two truckloads of sawdust (about 12-14 yards), but I had to turn him down since we have 10 yards of woodchips and 10 more yards coming in.

Also, getting in 6 yards of half topsoil, half mushroom compost either Friday or Saturday to top off all my raised beds and fill 2 new ones.

Been cleaning and organizing the tool shed (again!). The electrician is coming tomorrow to run 220 from the shed to the new well.

Just finished 4 orders for customers that we will deliver tomorrow.

Never a dull moment!


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## begreen

@EatenByLimestone and all,  I am getting ready to buy an AeroGarden or maybe an iDOO garden. Our goal will be to grow some Tiny Tim or similar small tomato, some lettuce or greens, and maybe basil. I have lots of questions before ordering. Some of them are:

How many holes?
How tall should it go?
What water tank capacity? (Does this matter a lot?)
What food is best and how much to order?
How much space does each plant take? The holes seem crowded.
Anything else?
Is this overkill for a starter system? The tanks seem shallower, but lots of pods.
Amazon product

Also, are there some things that I shouldn't grow? For example, is lettuce grown in this system too wimpy and delicate?


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## Dan Freeman

@begreen. Looks nice, but I would look carefully at the dimensions. (I didn't really check that closely.) When I grow Tiny Tims indoors during the winter, they easily get 18" tall and 12+" wide. I use one of those 4' wide baker's racks, and 4 Tiny Tim's easy take up the entire 4' width of a shelf. The picture they show on Amazon does not look like a lot of growing room for Tiny Tims.


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## begreen

Dan Freeman said:


> @begreen. Looks nice, but I would look carefully at the dimensions. (I didn't really check that closely.) When I grow Tiny Tims indoors during the winter, they easily get 18" tall and 12+" wide. I use one of those 4' wide baker's racks, and 4 Tiny Tim's easy take up the entire 4' width of a shelf. The picture they show on Amazon does not look like a lot of growing room for Tiny Tims.


Good to know. I have never grown them before. Are you growing yours hydroponically in the house or in a greenhouse in soil?


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## begreen

Also, do you test the tank water for EC or TDS to maintain a good nutrient balance?


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## DuaeGuttae

@begreen, I have two Aerogarden six-pod systems, one received by my daughter as a gift, the other purchased used.  I love them both, but it’s primarily as a seed starting system that they have their real value for me.  I start seeds in them for potting up and transplanting (or sometimes just for transplanting without potting up just because I have a hard time germinating some things in Texas heat).  My six-pod systems have seed starting trays that allow me to start 30 to 31 seedlings at a time.

My daughter did once grow little tomatoes in her Aerogarden, and I think we did hot peppers once also. Only two plants could grow in the six-pod system, however, and they required pretty aggressive pruning.  They did produce tomatoes that weren’t half bad.  It was hard for me to get a “harvest” though because kids picked them off as they ripened, but that’s not really a bad problem, and I doubt that would be an issue for you.

I’ve grown lettuce in an Aerogarden successfully.  I would occasionally brush it with my hand or even put a small fan on it to help it have a bit more structure.  The taste was fine.

Herbs do very well.  Our first experience with the Aerogarden was an herb pod kit that came with the gift.  We had fewer mouths to feed back then, but I remember regularly pruning off more herbs than we could use.   I recall the basil doing very well.  @EatenByLimestone has done whole rounds of basil, I think.  (I am growing a variety called “Emily Basil” this year for the first time.  It is a Genovese type with shorter internode spacing, so it would do well in a more confined space but still give that traditional flavor if that’s what you’re looking for.)

I don’t know about growing all those things simultaneously in one larger system, however, as I have no experience with that.

I looked at the link you provided.  I don’t know anything about the company, and I didn’t see any reviews on that particular link, but the height and sizing seemed like it would be possible to grow something like a Tiny Tim from what @Dan Freeman describes as their sizing.  I did notice, though, that the photos show spaces left, so for larger plants like that you would not be using all the slots.  The prices look much more reasonable than the current prices for Aerogardens.


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## begreen

Thanks for the good information. There are good reviews for the iDOO system, just not for this package. Do you generally want a larger tank for big rooted plants or just prune them regularly? What do you use for the nutrient feed?

PS: Looks like the iDOO does not have a pump. May need to keep on looking.


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## Dan Freeman

begreen said:


> Good to know. I have never grown them before. Are you growing yours hydroponically in the house or in a greenhouse in soil?


I don't grow them hydroponically. In the summer I grow them in 9" pots in the greenhouse. In the fall I start new seeds in a good potting soil in 9" pots and put them on a baker's rack under grow lights in my den.

I grow my lettuce hydroponically down in the cool cellar, at least I did the past two winters, but I may switch to potting soil this year. I haven't tested EC or TDS in the past, but I probably should have to get better results. My results have been good, but I know they could be better with more attention paid to the nutrient levels and adjusting accordingly.

Here's what I mean about the space for Tiny Tim's. These are on 4-foot-wide shelving, and they weren't fully grown. They stay short (about 18 inches), but they can really bush out.





My hydro setup in the cellar. I built this system with the instructions provided here: https://www.simplegreenshydroponics.com/


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## Dan Freeman

begreen said:


> Thanks for the good information. There are good reviews for the iDOO system, just not for this package. Do you generally want a larger tank for big rooted plants or just prune them regularly? What do you use for the nutrient feed?
> 
> PS: Looks like the iDOO does not have a pump. May need to keep on looking.



I use MASTERBLEND 4-18-38 for my hydroponics. There are a number of good nutrient feeds, but I went with this because of pricing and reviews.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

I have the 6 pod system, but don’t have any experience with other size systems.   I also have used mine for seed starting.   I’m hoping the tomatoes are pulled off by children as they ripen!  That’s the plan!

For tomatoes, heavy drinkers and feeders, I’d think the larger the reservoir, the better.  So, a bigger system is probably best.   I’ve only used the food they supplied with the kits, but I’ve read that some crops do better with other foods.  

I probably did 3 batches of Thai basil this year.   Maybe 60 plants or so.  It worked great and we’ve had lots of pesto and Vietnamese food.  I want to do a different kind of basil next year.  One that’ll bush out more.   Maybe I won’t have to plant 60 of them!

Thank you for reminding me about the tiny Tim’s.   I’d forgotten about the seeds I’d picked up in the chaos of life.


----------



## GrumpyDad

begreen said:


> @EatenByLimestone and all,  I am getting ready to buy an AeroGarden or maybe an iDOO garden. Our goal will be to grow some Tiny Tim or similar small tomato, some lettuce or greens, and maybe basil. I have lots of questions before ordering. Some of them are:
> 
> How many holes?
> How tall should it go?
> What water tank capacity? (Does this matter a lot?)
> What food is best and how much to order?
> How much space does each plant take? The holes seem crowded.
> Anything else?
> Is this overkill for a starter system? The tanks seem shallower, but lots of pods.
> Amazon product
> 
> Also, are there some things that I shouldn't grow? For example, is lettuce grown in this system too wimpy and delicate?



Hi BeGreen, I have a 7 hole aerogarden from about 10 years ago. We use it constantly.  We mostly grown herbs, and have done lettuce once.  Lettuce is a bit of a waste because you can only harvest so much before it starts to get bitter. (I do not have a green thumb!).  Herbs though, we find that we can keep those going for quite some time.  Sometimes my wife will let them get too tall, and I'll just cut everything down half way, and let it bush up again.  Eventually though it does get too stalky and my wife loses interest, forgets to add water and then the plants die.  Then we clean it all up, order more pods and do it all over again.  Winter time is the best time for this, gives you a sense of something other than cold/gray/wet.  

If you do tomatoes you will need to make sure you get the extender for the lamp if you are talking about the same countertop aerogarden.  I know they also sell a farm kit that allows for much more/larger plants too , but to rich for my blood.  

I tried buying a couple of sun lamps (4' length) from amazon and growing stuff indoors.  The soil I used was a mixture of what I had laying around outside in pots plus fresh soil.  Both soils turned moldy, even with a fan blowing on them.  I wasnt over watering I dont think.   The one from the outside, sprouted bugs.  Lots of them.  Especially moths.  So lesson learned there.  I was able to grow some starter plants, but honestly they didnt take off very well in the spring.  Not sure why...again no green thumb.

If I were to garden indoors again, I would definitely go hydroponic.


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## begreen

Thank you all. This is great information. Dan, that is an impressive setup. It looks like I have some more homework to squeeze in between the harvest frenzy right now.


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## begreen

I may get this one for starters to get my roots wet. 
Amazon product


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## EatenByLimestone

Careful, its a new toy with addictive qualities!   Pretty soon another will follow you home!   Lol


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## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> I may get this one for starters to get my roots wet.
> Amazon product




It’s too bad that they didn’t put a higher light hood on this one since it has such a nice large tank.  My Aerogarden is only about two quarts, I think, but maybe I’m remembering incorrectly.  14.5 inches is taller than either of my two go, though, so you should be able to grow some plants in there as long as you’re not afraid to prune.  (And since you’re a seasoned gardener, I’m sure you’re not afraid to prune.) 

I’ve been keeping busy in my garden.  I’m still having to water quite a bit as the rain that has been moving through central and south Texas has mostly been missing us.  I have several new plants growing, and it’s looking like fall has a shot at being better than spring or summer.  

Here are some wire wastebaskets I just picked up at the dollar store to protect my brassicas from cabbage moths.  I’ve got kale and cauliflower in this bed. 



The luffa plants are putting on some new fruit.



The Red Noodle Yardlong Beans are really fun.  They have beautiful blooms, and the pods elongate so fast.  We’ve yet to taste any of these.  I sure hope we like them because they’re growing well.



This is my first year ever to try bush beans, and I wimped out. It was worrying me how they were flopping on the soil and out of the bed, so I borrowed small tomato cages that my neighbor wasn’t using and supported them.
	

		
			
		

		
	




We’ve had some potential for storms recently, and while rain hasn’t materialized, we’ve gotten some pretty good winds.  So far my trellised watermelons have survived.  This is my largest one and the only one I’ve supported so far.


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## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> Thank you all. This is great information. Dan, that is an impressive setup. It looks like I have some more homework to squeeze in between the harvest frenzy right now.


I think we may need some pictures of that “harvest frenzy” when you have time, please.


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## begreen

I love your innovative and persistent solutions. Will post some pics after this weekend's last camping jaunt. We are collecting green beans  right now for a dilly bean canning session and are starting to have tomatoes everywhere in wait for processing. Also collecting eggplant for a batch of  kiopoolu.








						Bulgarian Eggplant Pepper Kiopoolu
					

Kiopoolu is a Bulgarian roasted eggplant and pepper spread used as an appetizer spread on bread or as an accompaniment to grilled meats.




					www.thespruceeats.com


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## EatenByLimestone

The wastebaskets are a great idea!


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## Dan Freeman

DG, I like the waste basket idea, too, but I am not sure the size mesh is going to be sufficient. A lot of folks use row cover. I started using tulle because it is so much cheaper than row cover. Be interesting to see if the baskets work; please let us know.

The plumber was here yesterday and hooked up the power to the well. In all, the equipment and electrical work ran us $3800, but it is comforting knowing I don't have to work our house well and equipment like I have been doing.

Got in another 10 yards of wood chips yesterday...now have 20 yards I have to move. Six yards of dirt coming tomorrow.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

Dan Freeman said:


> DG, I like the waste basket idea, too, but I am not sure the size mesh is going to be sufficient. A lot of folks use row cover. I started using tulle because it is so much cheaper than row cover. Be interesting to see if the baskets work; please let us know.
> 
> The plumber was here yesterday and hooked up the power to the well. In all, the equipment and electrical work ran us $3800, but it is comforting knowing I don't have to work our house well and equipment like I have been doing.
> 
> Got in another 10 yards of wood chips yesterday...now have 20 yards I have to move. Six yards of dirt coming tomorrow.



I have plans for tulle, too, actually, but I’m hopeful that the wastebaskets will be good enough for this particular application.  The mesh is actually pretty small.  I can’t fit the end of my pinky finger in there, so I’m thinking that a Cabbage White won’t be able to get inside with those wings.  A squash vine borer, on the other hand, might just sneak through, so I was thinking of making some tulle covers/liners for the times when I plant squash and pumpkins, but I won’t be starting new ones this season.   The wastebaskets are small, so they won’t be able to stay on the plants too long, but if I can just give them a bit of a headstart, I think that will help them bear the eventual damage better.  I’m also hoping that the baskets will serve as mini hail protection in the spring.  Our most active time for hail storms seems to be just about the same time I set out most of my transplants.

I have a lot of row cover that I use for frost/freeze protection when necessary.  I know some people do use it for insect protection, but my insect problems come during hot weather, and I can’t leave row cover closed up when the sun is shining a lot.  It’s too much greenhouse effect down here.  I’m hoping that tulle, being so much lighter and airier, won’t trap heat in the same way.

I’m glad you got that second well hooked up.  

You talk so casually about ten yards of woodchips here, another ten yards there.  That’s just a huge amount of work to move all that.  I even think one yard is a lot of shoveling.  Take it easy on your shoulders.


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## Dan Freeman

The tulle will definitely add the extra protection. I didn't plant cabbage this spring. I was going to plant some for the Fall, but just never got to it, and with first frost about a month off, it's too late.

I'm glad about the 2nd well, too. Now, just waiting for the rain tank. I probably would not have ordered the rain tank way back when if I had known I would get access to that second well on my property when the neighbor's sold their hose, but I guess you can never have too much water storage when doing so much watering during the summer months.

LOL on the wood chips and soil! I guess I am just used to it. I must have moved 100 cubic yards of chips and 20 cubic yards of soil from my driveway area, down the hill and into the FF since May 2021 (over 300 loads). Another 26 yards, seems like a drop in the bucket...only about 70 more trips. One nice thing about the electric wheelbarrow is the hydraulic dump, so I can tip it pretty well forward and fill about 3/4 of it without having to lift so high. Then, I put the barrel in its regular position for the last 1/4 of the load.  Having the electric wheelbarrow certainly makes it much easier traversing the hill. At 66, it allows me to keep doing this.


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## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> I love your innovative and persistent solutions. Will post some pics after this weekend's last camping jaunt. We are collecting green beans  right now for a dilly bean canning session and are starting to have tomatoes everywhere in wait for processing. Also collecting eggplant for a batch of  kiopoolu.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bulgarian Eggplant Pepper Kiopoolu
> 
> 
> Kiopoolu is a Bulgarian roasted eggplant and pepper spread used as an appetizer spread on bread or as an accompaniment to grilled meats.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thespruceeats.com


We love dilly beans.  One reason I chose the Red Noodle beans as a heat-tolerant green bean alternative was that I had read they make outstanding dilly beans.  I think I may have to buy dill to make them, though, but we’ll see.   My transplants are growing, just slowly.  They may leap soon.

That kiopoolu sounds delicious.  It reminds me of Macedonian Ajvar, to which my sisters-in-law introduced me many years ago after they spent time living in Macedonia.

How are your Beaver Dam Peppers doing?  Mine are just starting to set fruit, but today is the 2022 Pepper festival in Beaver Dam itself, so I figure that it’s harvest time for spring planted peppers.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

Dan Freeman said:


> The tulle will definitely add the extra protection. I didn't plant cabbage this spring. I was going to plant some for the Fall, but just never got to it, and with first frost about a month off, it's too late.
> 
> I'm glad about the 2nd well, too. Now, just waiting for the rain tank. I probably would not have ordered the rain tank way back when if I had known I would get access to that second well on my property when the neighbor's sold their hose, but I guess you can never have too much water storage when doing so much watering during the summer months.
> 
> LOL on the wood chips and soil! I guess I am just used to it. I must have moved 100 cubic yards of chips and 20 cubic yards of soil from my driveway area, down the hill and into the FF since May 2021 (over 300 loads). Another 26 yards, seems like a drop in the bucket...only about 70 more trips. One nice thing about the electric wheelbarrow is the hydraulic dump, so I can tip it pretty well forward and fill about 3/4 of it without having to lift so high. Then, I put the barrel in its regular position for the last 1/4 of the load.  Having the electric wheelbarrow certainly makes it much easier traversing the hill. At 66, it allows me to keep doing this.


I’m glad you have the electric wheelbarrow to help.  70 trips still sounds like a lot to me, but I agree that work like that helps to keep you young.  (At least that’s my theory of why my 85-year-old mother still processes her own firewood and hauls algae from her pond by the (non-electric) wheelbarrow load up a long hill to her garden.)


----------



## DuaeGuttae

A while back I had posted some pictures of my indoor gardening experiments this summer: a salad mix, za’atar, and zucchini.  I wanted to give some updates.

I’ve harvested the salad mix once pretty aggressively, and I’m getting ready to do another big cutting perhaps today.  I sowed the seeds way too thickly since I was expecting poor germination even inside since our temperatures are regularly 80 degrees and higher in this area.  Things germinated well, but clearly they’re too crowded.  Nevertheless the kids and I enjoyed our first salad from this, so overall I’d call it a success.  The biggest problem has been fungus gnats.  After the harvest today, I may move the container outside.




The za’atar got moved outside quite a while ago, and it is doing well.  I think I’m not going to transplant it this fall so that I have the option of keeping it inside during the winter and perhaps putting it in my herb area in the spring.



The zucchini I was growing inside started doing poorly a while back at about the same time that my outdoor plant succumbed to squash vine borers.  We hardened off the inside plant in its pot and then transplanted it to the garden area.  It took a while to get established, but it’s growing well now.  It actually had some flowers before the transplant, but it took a while to recover and hasn’t had any outside yet.  I’m hoping for some soon so that I can get a little crop before the borers do it in.


----------



## Dan Freeman

Today, I washed and scrubbed about 80 rocks and put them in the pond. Most were placed near the edge of the shelf that surrounds the pond so when I add the gravel, it won't fall into the deep area. The rest were placed randomly on the shelf so when I add the gravel, it will look more natural with rocks projecting up through the gravel.

I also forgot to mention, I put 2 of my goldfish (from my small pond) in the FF pond a week ago. They are doing well. So, I bought 8 comets the other day from the nursery. They are trying to get rid of them because it is the end of the season. I paid $28 for all 8, each about 2" long. So far, all 10 fish are thriving.


----------



## Riverbanks

Every year at this time, I struggle with getting bored with veggies, road side stands are packed with everything. Some day I'm going to buckle down and start canning, I say it every year


----------



## Dan Freeman

Last night, we took all the San Marzano tomatoes we harvested this summer from the FF out of the freezer to defrost. We had 5 large bowls of them. This morning we started skinning them, pressing the water out, and putting them through a food mill to get all the seeds out. We wound up with about 2.5 gallons of sauce.




We also defrosted 6lbs. of chop meat and 4lbs. of sausage to make meatballs. We'll fry the meatballs and cook them in the sauce, then freeze them in those little 1lb. cole slaw/potato salad containers from the grocery store. Two of those containers makes a meal with some leftover for lunch.


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## Riverbanks

Great God, I have to start doing that,2.5 gallons of homemade goodness? I'm jealous


----------



## Dan Freeman

Riverbanks said:


> Great God, I have to start doing that,2.5 gallons of homemade goodness? I'm jealous



Oh yes. And the sauce and meatballs should last us through most of the winter.

We made about 150 large meatballs this afternoon. This pic is of one bowl with all the breadcrumbs, onions, garlic, parsley, and parmesan cheese. The other bowl is just the raw meat before adding all the ingredients.




The sun came out this afternoon, so I did some more work at the pond. I spread 8 bags of river rock along 2/3's of the shelf. I need to buy 4 more bags, and I think I will buy 4 bags of river stone, larger, to vary the composition on the shelf.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

We blanche and freeze the tomatoes then slowly pull them out over The winter.

I bought a squeeze off Craigslist a few years back.   I still haven't used it, lol.  We seem to still be able to eat everything put up without making sauce.


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## Dan Freeman

I went to Lowes today and picked up a few more bags of river stone and "egg stone" to finish the shelf of the pond.

All I have left to do is put the rocks around the pond on the outside as a "surround".

I created a "beach area" where the stones rise up out of the water so any critters that fall in can get out (like the mouse that fell in last week that I had to chase with a shovel to get him out) and other critters can easily go down into the pond for a drink of water.


----------



## begreen

Tomatoes are starting to fill up the boxes. They are big this year. These are the Pomidoro Squisitos. Each one is 3-4" long.  I harvested the rest of the delicatas and butternut squash yesterday. The other delicata plant yielded another 6 squash. We are growing smaller varieties this year because there are only 2 of us. And the hot peppers are coming on strong. These are Fresnos that I am going to try lacto fermentation on. Our Beaver Dam peppers are starting to redden up. We have eaten a couple. They are great on pizza.


----------



## Dan Freeman

Got the first course of rocks placed around the pond today except for the area where the overflow pipe will be. Set the overflow pipe and will set it in place with pond foam and dirt tomorrow.


----------



## Dan Freeman

Today, I got the pond overflow pipe buried and put pond foam all around where it comes out of the pond, so the water runs through the pipe and not under it.

I brought down a lot more rocks and started finishing the "surround". I have one more day of placing rocks, and the pond will be finished. After that, we can put wood chips right up to the edge of the rocks.





This is the area I have to finish tomorrow.




And I spotted this little guy in the pond while I was working today.


----------



## begreen

It's nice to see the locals moving in.


----------



## Dan Freeman

Yes, I was surprised. I was just standing there, looked down, and there he was. He backs down under that rock for a while, and then comes back out for a while. He was there all day.

Took a good look at the tomatoes today, and they are just about finished. The few days of rain seems to have done them in. Most are split because of the fast increase in water volume. Nights are now going down into the low 50's/upper 40's. We could hit the lower 40's tonight. I should be harvesting the second crop of beets and turnips soon and will probably harvest the acorn and butternut squash this week.


----------



## Dan Freeman

FOOD FOREST POND FINISHED!

Today, I finished placing rocks around the FF pond and covered the perimeter with chips.

Project started June 11th:



Finished September 16th...just a few days over 3 months:


----------



## begreen

Well done, Dan. It looks great. I admire your energy. 
The food forest is going to look great in 3-5 years as the trees start to mature.


----------



## Dan Freeman

Thank you, begreen. Yes, I look forward to when it does look like an honest to goodness food forest in a few years.


----------



## Dan Freeman

Today, I cleared out 6 of the large, raised beds and 4 of the small, raised beds down in the FF. I probably could have "squeezed out" some more tomatoes from some of the larger beds, but I felt I needed to get a jump on things since there is still so much work to be done before the winter. The smaller beds were all annual and perennial flowers. I pulled the annuals and cut back the perennials. Tomorrow, I should be able to finish clearing out the raised beds down in the FF.

After that, I will top off all the raised beds and begin transplanting one comfrey plant next to each fruit tree and bush. Comfrey can be cut down 3x per season and the leaves make great fertilizer for fruit trees/bushes since they pull up nutrients and minerals from up to 20 feet down when mature.

I also harvested all of our butternut and acorn squash...not as many as I had hoped for. I think next year I will plant them to run horizontally on the ground rather than vertically up the netting I used this year.


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## EatenByLimestone

Very nice!    I can’t wait to see it mature also!


----------



## DuaeGuttae

@begreen,  thanks for the pictures of your harvest.  The produce looks great.  

@Dan Freeman,  congratulations on being done.  You worked so hard, and the results look wonderful.  

It’s been busy here.   I had some really bad digging in the garden Saturday morning.  Most of my mature plants were spared, but the animal dug where there was more exposed soil, and that took out some of the smaller plants or newer transplants.  I had been wanting to put in Sugar Snap Peas that I started inside, but I can’t do that till I figure out what is getting in and deal with it.  I set the game camera last night, but it ran out of battery before it caught the digger on camera.  (It got lots of waving leaves and grass because it was very windy.)  The digger did return, but my next door neighbors had helped me protect some higher value crops like corn (special to my kids) and sweet potatoes (something that might actually produce substantial food) by putting mesh around or on top of individual beds.  We protected three of the four beds in our new garden area, and this morning the only digging was in the unprotected bed and in the paths.  Yesterday the old garden area had been torn up something fierce (my poor kale and cauliflower!), but this morning it was untouched.  Mystifying.  I was thankful, though, not to have more significant mess to clean up.


----------



## Dan Freeman

Thanks, DG.

Sorry to hear about the "digger". It is frustrating when you work so hard.


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## begreen

Bummer, are there wild pigs or boars in the area?


----------



## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> Bummer, are there wild pigs or boars in the area?


       There are feral hogs in the area, but thankfully I’ve never encountered one on our property.  I think I actually saw a young one dead on the side of the road on our way to church on Sunday.

        I think if a feral hog wanted to get into our garden, I probably wouldn’t have any questions as to how it got in.  I’d probably find half the fence pushed over.  I understand that they can use a lot of brute force when they want to.  They’re a sight I’d rather not see.

        I did catch one raccoon in a trap last night.  He was a really big fellow, so heavy that I had to set the trap down to rest when I was carrying it out of the garden area.  I had my camera set but couldn’t make out anything in the pictures it took.  There’s too much space to survey, and my garden plants can block a lot of the view.  I’m not sure whether more visited, but there was digging in both gardens, including in the bed which I loosely surrounded with mesh.  I used marshmallows for bait, and they were missing from one of the smaller traps.  The coon was in the larger trap in the same garden.  I’m hoping he was a loner, but I still have three traps set from last night (I own two, and I borrowed two from the next door neighbors).

        Yesterday I harvested a small watermelon whose roots had been damaged and a cantaloupe that I figured would be a target if a coon was the culprit.  Both were really small but good.  My kids and I ate them up today as a late afternoon snack.

       I also have seen a few tomatoes forming on my Captain Lucky and Taiga plants.  Those are my bigger tomato varieties, and I’m excited to see fruit starting to form.  (I have more fruit on my other smaller varieties, though once again the plum types are having problems with blossom end rot.)


----------



## clancey

Well my one tomato plant or (bush) is producing and today I picked three tomato's off of it. I gave my carpenter about ten red tomato's and the people next door about eight red ones the other day and this giant has about 75 green ones on the plant scattered around. My carpenter told me this was the largest tomato plant that he "ever saw"--lol.. Next year I will try another kind that will be more manageable for me to handle for this one has a mind of its own..Pictures.. old clancey


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## EatenByLimestone

That’s Great Mrs Clancy!   

I set an Aerogarden to growing Tiny Tim tomatoes earlier this week.   2 plants so far.  Next month I’ll start another 2.   Hopefully I can have fresh ones for snacks and dinners all winter long.


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## Dan Freeman

Congrats, Mrs Clancey!

Lime, that reminds me I have to start my indoor TT seeds, too.


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## EatenByLimestone

It’ll be 41 this morning when I get outside.   It’s time!   Pretty soon it’ll be ski season!   After the field hockey game last night the little one and I were discussing the upcoming ski season!


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## clancey

Everybody's gardens has done really well but reading all your postings make me feel really tired. Now its time for people to take a nice break to get ready for the winter season. Hey free that pond is beautiful but it involves a lot of "after work" to keep it in good shape--would not you think? And DG its time for you to relax and do something different for this year--maybe rent a nice video or something and just let your hair down..lol  There is a saying and it might not be exact here but all work and no play is not good for you and makes life dull or something..Yea I am reading about all of you and Lime you can take a vacation too as well as all the rest...Why I get tired just keeping up with my house work and talking to the tomato plant--lol...Enjoyed all your postings and have a real nice holiday season...I just know that you all will be eating well and good job...clancey


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## Dan Freeman

clancey said:


> Everybody's gardens has done really well but reading all your postings make me feel really tired. Now its time for people to take a nice break to get ready for the winter season. Hey free that pond is beautiful but it involves a lot of "after work" to keep it in good shape--would not you think? And DG its time for you to relax and do something different for this year--maybe rent a nice video or something and just let your hair down..lol  There is a saying and it might not be exact here but all work and no play is not good for you and makes life dull or something..Yea I am reading about all of you and Lime you can take a vacation too as well as all the rest...Why I get tired just keeping up with my house work and talking to the tomato plant--lol...Enjoyed all your postings and have a real nice holiday season...I just know that you all will be eating well and good job...clancey


EEKS! I hate the Winter season. I get cabin fever very easily when I can't work outside.

Thanks for the kudos on my new pond. It will take some work, but as long as I keep up with it, it should be fine.

It's nice to hear from you in your two latest postings here, Mrs Clancey. I was becoming concerned since we haven't heard from you in a while.  Hang in there!


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## begreen

I'm with you Dan. Summer is my favorite season, with Spring second. 

Tomatoes are ripening, slowly. We had p. mildew starting to attack the leaves so I stripped all of the lower leaves off. We have been roasting up batches for eventual canning as sauce. Next week will be busy with them, but this week it has been all about green beans. Canned up a dozen dilly beans and freezing the rest. This is the biggest crop we have ever grown.


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## EatenByLimestone

Every season brings something new here.  I like them all!  Just as I start getting tired of the one we’re in, it changes!   

I wiped the stove down today.    Wow it was dusty


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## clancey

Yea I wiped my stove off today too and looked at it. This Big Boy tomato plant produced ten more red tomato's so I gave them  once again to the neighbors and they said they will take all that I want to give away because those tomato's were wonderful tasting. I tasted my three and you can cut them with a fork and they are so so juicy. Wonderful taste and just have a full acre of ground and plant them smack in the middle of it,,,lol  This plant takes up a lot of room and one can start them now for next year for they sure take awhile to gear up.. I am going to be tomato "too much" real soon and I will make some tomato sauce out of them as well as frying some of the green ones...Anybody wanting any tomato's I will ship them to you--lol lol...Sometimes  "free" I just do not feel like much posting and prefer just to read the postings...everything fine...clancey


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## Dan Freeman

Glad to hear your tomatoes are doing so well. Fried green tomatoes are wonderful.


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## DuaeGuttae

@clancey , your tomato looks great.  Congratulations on another year of growing delicious and nutritious food and sharing it with friends and neighbors.  I’m also glad you checked in here to let us know you’re okay.

@begreen , that’s wonderful that you’re having such good harvests of green beans and tomatoes.  Those are both great foods to put away for winter (though I’d probably say that about just about any fresh vegetable you grew that could be preserved).

This week I’ve caught and removed one large raccoon and two skunks from the gardens.  I’ve had two nights without digging, so I’m hopeful that things will be better, but I still have traps in the garden and mesh protecting my beds as I can. 

We also had the blessing of a small thunderstorm last night.  It gave us about a quarter inch of rain, but I had just transplanted sugar snap peas, radishes, and leeks yesterday, so I was grateful for extra moisture for them.  It also rained harder a bit upstream of a creek that runs down at the bottom of the huge hill we live on, and so I’m hopeful that there will be a bit more water and food for the local wildlife for a time.

Here are a few photo updates.

The Captain Lucky tomato plant that never bore earlier in the summer and that I cut back to let it grow out again now has some fruit.



The Seminole Pumpkin Vine that I cut back because of borer damage to the stem has really started to take off.  It has male flowers blooming, so I’m hoping for some potential fruit soon.



This is the zucchini that I raised indoors that got nearly dug up earlier this week.  The tap root wasn’t severed, though, so I replanted it.  It lost a lot of leaves, but it still looks good in the center.  I’m really impressed that it looks to be coming back despite the rough treatment it had.



This is a row where I used to have watermelon plants on the trellis.  I took those out after some repeated digging in this bed.  I put my sugar snap peas in the back behind the bush beans.  (They’ve been blooming, but they haven’t set pods.  We really need a cooler fall still.).  I’m hoping to be able to keep them through the heat to get a harvest Before winter.  I’ve never had success with sugar snap peas yet, but I‘m trying again.


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## Dan Freeman

Two nights without any digging. Looks like you may have caught the culprits.


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## DuaeGuttae

I sure hope so.  It will be a little while longer yet for the sun to come up so that I can get outside and check again.  Each day these days I just wait for it to get light so that I can go see what the garden looks like.


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## begreen

Solar hours are declining and the angle of the sun increases. All this leads to a shutdown of most garden systems here. The greenhouse cucumber is kaput, after delivering an unprecedented number of great cukes. Today I harvested several eggplants and peppers. Tomatoes are being processed and my wife groaned as I picked another 5 lbs. of green beans.


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## Dan Freeman

begreen said:


> Solar hours are declining and the angle of the sun increases. All this leads to a shutdown of most garden systems here. The greenhouse cucumber is kaput, after delivering an unprecedented number of great cukes. Today I harvested several eggplants and peppers. Tomatoes are being processed and my wife groaned as I picked another 5 lbs. of green beans.


Other than our 2nd crop of beets and turnips, everything has been pulled up. Always sad to come to the end of the season. Days in the 50's and 60's now. Nights in the 40's. I never look forward to winter.


----------



## clancey

Winter time and low light has special offerings too...Think of the coming holidays with all your love ones. My tomato plant is still putting out tomato's so I just leave it go natural--so to speak...I pick 4 today and I have "plenty of green ones still on the vine ready to turn red--maybe...clancey


----------



## Dan Freeman

clancey said:


> Winter time and low light has special offerings too...Think of the coming holidays with all your love ones. My tomato plant is still putting out tomato's so I just leave it go natural--so to speak...I pick 4 today and I have "plenty of green ones still on the vine ready to turn red--maybe...clancey


I like winter up until Christmas. As of December 26th, I'm ready for Spring.


----------



## begreen

I pulled the greenhouse cuke today. Sad to see such a champ quit. Before removing the base of the plant I did an autopsy and found this. Is this the squash borer that others are seeing?





Picked another 5 lbs of green beans yesterday. That's 25+ lbs. and there are more to come. Harvested a row of carrots, there are many more that have been succession planted so that we can harvest through fall. New lettuce plants are happy. The oldest are ready for a pruning. Eggplants & peppers are coming in strong now. Still getting strawberries too.


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## DuaeGuttae

Yuck.  I don’t know what those little worms are.  They are not squash vine borer larvae.  Those are much bigger and white with a dark head.  Do you have a county extension agent to whom you could send the pictures?  It’s good that you did the autopsy.  I hope you can find out what’s going on there.


----------



## Dan Freeman

Today's weekly email from _The joe gardener Show with Joe Lamp’l _ features his latest article and podcast about Beneficial Insects. I thought it might be of interest.

*How to Get More Beneficial Insects in Your Garden to Manage Insect Pests Naturally*








						Beneficial Insects for the Home Garden | Biocontrol | joegardener®
					

Beneficial insects that prey on pests can be a gardener’s best friend for biological control, but not all predatory insects are equal.




					joegardener.com


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## clancey

Wonderful article with enough of information for a good read...I now feel itchy but I have more knowledge about the good bugs for our gardens...thanks  clancey


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## Dan Freeman

Today I filled a few more pots with potting soil for my winter tomatoes and lettuce in the den.

The two pots on the left I planted Tiny Tims seeds in last Tuesday. The two pots on the right will get more Tiny Tim seeds this coming Tuesday. (Want to space them out.) The two smaller pots in the middle I planted romaine and butter crisp lettuce seeds in.





I also got the weatherproof box for the electricity to the pond mounted on a 4x6 post and wired the outlets. I need to move it down to the pond, dig a hole for the post, and then bury the wire back up to the tool shed, and eliminate the extension cord I am using now for the power to the pond.


----------



## Riverbanks

Looking sweet, how about a preservative on that 4 by 6?, It doesn't look the best, I see knot, I see rot, a little cwf goes a long way, I'm just mentioning that cause of fencing I've put up, has failed way sooner than I expected


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## Dan Freeman

Riverbanks said:


> Looking sweet, how about a preservative on that 4 by 6?, It doesn't look the best, I see knot, I see rot, a little cwf goes a long way, I'm just mentioning that cause of fencing I've put up, has failed way sooner than I expected


That post was used in a chicken run I built back in 2013. I plan to paint BlackJack 57 on the part that goes into the ground.  (https://blackjackcoatings.com/products/black-jack-rubr-coat-57). That should outlast me. LOL. The top has another 20 years in it, also outlasting me.


----------



## clancey

I like that outlet box--neat and secure especially the weather...Are you going to put those wires underground in anything maybe like some kind of a pipe--just curious--for I know nothing about nothing--lol.. Ha still waiting for you to fix the gate and get it closer to the fence line--just bugging you. I have ten more red  tomato's today and I must have a hundred green ones "left" and they are still on the vine and this "big boy" has been a unruly "trip" and taking up half of that side of the yard...but I keep feeding it and it has become like a "pet" sort of--lol  clancey


----------



## Dan Freeman

The wire is UF-B wire. It can be buried directly in the ground without any piping.

LOL. A pet tomato plant! Those tomatoes look great, Clancey.


----------



## clancey

Thanks.. I was thinking along the lines that if anything ever happened to the wire that you maybe could pull it through the piping and not have to dig too much to find the bad spot in the wire if this should happen and it would protect it better for the future--just thinking here--lol...Even the best of the wires I would put through piping if it were to go underground at any point and it would make it easier I think for future work because you could fish another wire through if  need be down the road.  clancey


----------



## Dan Freeman

I ran the same type of wire from my house to my workshop almost 25 years ago. Never had a problem. If this one lasts 25 years, it will be around after me.


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## Dan Freeman

1 week since I planted my first 2 pots of Tiny Tim seeds in my den, and they are coming up already. I'll wait a bit and pull out the weaker of the two in each pot. (I could transplant it, but I want to space the growth and development of each pot.) Going to start two more pots today, two next week, and two in another two weeks. Eight pots in all for the winter.


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## begreen

The Tiny Tims will be grown in a heated greenhouse this winter with lights?


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## Dan Freeman

No. I grow them in my den during the winter with LED grow lights. It's too expensive to heat the greenhouse during the winter. I heated it one year with electric heat and it cost and arm and a leg. Then, I built a solar heating system that worked well, but took up too much room for my spring/summer plantings, so I dismantled it after a couple of winters and moved my winter growing inside on a smaller scale

Solar Water Heat for Greenhouse​


----------



## EatenByLimestone

I need to get my second batch of Tiny Tim’s started.   I’m trying to get 2 a month.   Hopefully that spreads out the fruiting a bit.   I think somebody here said they pause between fruitings for a month?   I’m hoping I can always have 1 set fruiting for the 6 winter months.  

I also have some Genoese Basil and mint going.   I haven’t grown mint in ages as I didn’t want it to get loose, but inside, in an Aerogarden it should be fine.   The mint is growing surprisingly slow!


----------



## EatenByLimestone

BG, how’s your hydrophobic experiment going?


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## Dan Freeman

EatenByLimestone said:


> I need to get my second batch of Tiny Tim’s started.   I’m trying to get 2 a month.   Hopefully that spreads out the fruiting a bit.   I think somebody here said they pause between fruitings for a month?   I’m hoping I can always have 1 set fruiting for the 6 winter months.
> 
> I also have some Genoese Basil and mint going.   I haven’t grown mint in ages as I didn’t want it to get loose, but inside, in an Aerogarden it should be fine.   The mint is growing surprisingly slow!


I'm doing two TT's every week or so until I have 8 plants. That should space out the winter harvest nicely.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Oh, when going through my pockets I found the grow list from when I went apple picking Saturday.   

Here’s what my local orchard is growing.   We took home Northern Spy, Macoun, and based solely off the name, Radiant Runkle.  Always have to try something new.


----------



## begreen

EatenByLimestone said:


> I need to get my second batch of Tiny Tim’s started.   I’m trying to get 2 a month.   Hopefully that spreads out the fruiting a bit.   I think somebody here said they pause between fruitings for a month?   I’m hoping I can always have 1 set fruiting for the 6 winter months.
> 
> I also have some Genoese Basil and mint going.   I haven’t grown mint in ages as I didn’t want it to get loose, but inside, in an Aerogarden it should be fine.   The mint is growing surprisingly slow!


Is this in the aerogarden? Do you start in it or in a pot and transfer?


----------



## begreen

EatenByLimestone said:


> Oh, when going through my pockets I found the grow list from when I went apple picking Saturday.
> 
> Here’s what my local orchard is growing.   We took home Northern Spy, Macoun, and based solely off the name, Radiant Runkle.  Always have to try something new.
> 
> View attachment 300214


Macoun is an excellent apple. We finally figured out that we have one after several years of wondering. We inherited it and a Liberty with the property. It's a cross between macintosh and jersey black.  I like to eat them with a slice of cheese. This is not a great keeper, so enjoy them now. The Northern Spy is a good keeper and nice pie and cider apple. 

Gala is also a very nice apple. It's a cross between a macintosh and a red delicious.


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## Dan Freeman

EatenByLimestone said:


> Oh, when going through my pockets I found the grow list from when I went apple picking Saturday.
> 
> Here’s what my local orchard is growing.   We took home Northern Spy, Macoun, and based solely off the name, Radiant Runkle.  Always have to try something new.
> 
> View attachment 300214


We have a u-pick-it farm in Highland, NY that we supply with our products.  (jams, jellies, salsas, bbq sauces, pickles, hot sauces, and dip mixes) They sell about 1000 cases of our products between September-November. They are the Number 1 rated u-pick-it farm in the entire Hudson Valey. Thay have a tremendous variety of apples, in addition to other fruits and veggies from August through November.

From their Facebook site this weekend: "We have 20 varieties of apples available this weekend including 2 new ones: Rosalee and Ludacrisp. "

In addition to all the fruit they have for picking, they also sell wine, local beers, and sangrias. They sell over 200 dozen apple cider doughnuts per hour and make over 200 pizzas per hour when open in October. They also have tractor rides, a "small town" village for kids, a pumpkin patch, and tons of animals. It is a great place to visit if in the Hudson Valley area.

They bought an abandoned 56-acre farm about 15 years ago and turned it into the Number 1 u-pick-it farm in the Hudson Valley.









						Welcome to DuBois Farms Pick-Your-Own in the Hudson Valley - Dubois Farms
					

Dubois Farms Pick-Your Own apples, peaches. Winery, Brewery, Tavern, Farm Market, Pizzeria, Bakery, Cafe in the Hudson Valley, Highland, NY.




					duboisfarms.com
				












						DuBois Farms
					

DuBois Farms, Highland, New York. 12,823 likes · 13 talking about this · 39,748 were here. Since our opening in 2006, we've been proud to offer our fresh fruits and vegetables, desserts, and event...




					www.facebook.com


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## EatenByLimestone

The Hudson River is maybe 10 miles from me, but the area known as the valley is down south an hour, hour and a half.   It sounds like a great place though!

All plants were started in the Aerogarden.   The mint and basil were part of a seed kit that Aerogarden sends out with their unit to get people to buy their seeds.


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## begreen

I've got to get one of these ordered.


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## begreen

I ended up ordering the iDoo, 12 pod system. Got it on sale for $85. 
Amazon product


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## EatenByLimestone

Thats an awesome deal!


----------



## begreen

Hope so, we'll see. I got some tiny tim seeds too.


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## EatenByLimestone

I think the garden is coming to an end.   I grabbed most of the growing squash off the vines and all of the red and orange tomatoes left.    I’ll leave the green ones on until we’re about ready to get a frost.   The bok choy and kale looks great still.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Poblano peppers finally started producing.   I think I need to start them earlier.  My wife says they’re bitter.   I don’t taste it.   I think she gets used to the dull taste from the supermarket.  *shrug*. She doesn’t like the blueberries if they aren’t crazy purple either.


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## begreen

We have a good crop of poblanos this year. They do have a stronger pepper flavor than store-bough green bell peppers. That's what makes them nice for chile relleños and stuffing with seasoned rice. So far they are standing up well, but our nighttime temps have not dropped into the 40s yet and every day is sunny, including the next 10 day forecast. We've had a total of .15" of rain since mid June.


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## Dan Freeman

We already had our first frost 2 days ago.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

No frosts here yet, though I’ve seen them come as early as the end of October.  Some of my kids are sick, and we’re having a day off school today, so I did a good chunk of work in the garden.

A few weeks ago we had a science lesson about seed germination, and in conjunction with that I let the six year old and ten year old choose some seeds that were appropriate for fall planting and get them started inside.  They‘ve been up and outside hardening off for a while, and I needed to get them in soil.  The kids are sick enough that I did it for them instead of having them help, but this morning I transplanted for them some carrots, kale, rhubarb, and hollyhocks.  I also seeded some Austrian Winter Peas and Crimson Clover in other areas of the garden.  Watering took a very long time as my transfer pump failed to turn on last Friday.  Replacing the brushes and the impeller didn’t help.  It’s still under warranty, so we’ll see what happens with that.




The carrots are in the front corner, and the kale is under the basket.  The zucchini in the back is the one I started indoors in the summer.  It has produced some male flowers recently, so I still have a chance at some fruit if it starts producing females.

I pulled out a number of plants over the weekend that weren’t going to produce much.  I also chopped the Sunn Hemp cover crop.  That pile got mulched with the mower and added to the compost bins.

Our mini patch of Glass Gem corn has been drying down.  The stalks were actually breaking, so I’ve been harvesting as each one goes down.  I only ended up with seven stalks, so I did lots of hand pollinating, and even then the results weren’t great.  We are getting some small and partial ears, though, and my kids are excited about unwrapping each one.  We plant to save our favorite seeds and plant a larger patch next year.  These tiny ears are drying on one of the racks I made for hanging fireplaces tools and gloves.  The gloves are just sitting on the hearth right now since I don’t need to keep that area clear at the moment.






When I was working the soil today I was marveling at just how dry it is despite all my watering this summer.  I saw an article in the local paper recently that said that the airport in San Antonio has had only 8.2 inches of rain from January through September this year.  We’re not in that precise location, but it gives an idea of our drought conditions.  I added up all the moisture that I have recorded in my garden notebook this year, and it totaled 8.1 inches.  No wonder the landscape is so brown and crispy.

I also set my Aerogardens back up again for some winter growing (though it still kind of feels like summer at the moment).  I had some old seeds from a kit that my daughter had with tomatoes and a mini jalapeño, so I started those.  I also put some Upland Cress in other sponges to see if that will germinate.  I’m not sure any of it will come up as the tomato and jalapeno seeds are old and have been kept in warm conditions.  The Upland Cress likes cooler temperatures to germinate.  I did put ice cubes in the reservoir when I added water, but I’ll have to remember to keep doing that.


----------



## begreen

I've read that the partial ears are because of incomplete pollination. Planting small crops in a block of at least 2 rows instead of a single row can help prevent this.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> I've read that the partial ears are because of incomplete pollination. Planting small crops in a block of at least 2 rows instead of a single row can help prevent this.


Oh, yes.  It was definitely incomplete pollination despite my attempts to hand pollinate.  My mini corn patch wasn’t supposed to be so mini, but I had germination and survival problems.  What was supposed to be 16 plants in one bed turned into three, and I pulled them because I ran out of water at the time they were tasseling.  In the second bed pictured above, I was supposed to have 30 plants in a staggered pattern that actually would have made three rows, but only seven plants survived.  Thankfully they were all in a cluster of sorts, so that helped get some pollination.  I’m just thankful that it wasn’t a complete bust.  This was the planting that was for my young children and what they were most excited about.  Even though the ears aren’t great, they have loved peeling back the husks and revealing the colors.  I hope we get something different on the last two ears as that will make things even more fun for them.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

2nd Aerogarden is up and running!   The tomatoes are really taking off on the first Aerogarden.  

I moved the mint out of it as it was getting a really slow start.  I dropped a bok choy in its place.   Once it germinates it should grow fast!   

In the new Aerogarden I put the mint, a bok choy, and 2 tiny Tim’s.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

I’m contemplating getting some more basil and bok choy going for pots in the winter.  It’d be nice to have more fresh veggies and herbs. If I planted them now the Aerogarden would be ready for the next batch of Tiny Tim’s when the basil and bok choy are ready to put in soil.


----------



## Dan Freeman

Well, it looks like I won't get everything done before winter that I wanted to do.

Yesterday, I was setting up the "bubble" to cover the small pond. I had to affix the top piece that stabilizes the "ribs" and was using a two-step stepladder. One leg of the stepladder sunk into the ground, and I went ass over tea kettle.

Long story short, I wound up fracturing 3 ribs, went to the ER, and they admitted me. They were concerned with the pain and discomfort from 3 major rib fractures that I may not breathe deep enough and wind up with pneumonia. They wanted to first send me their trauma center about 40 miles away but settled on admitting me overnight for observation, intravenous pain control and breathing therapy.

Dr said to figure on a 6–8-week recovery if no complications.

They discharged me this afternoon with a script for Oxycodone, a muscle relaxant, and a Spirometer for deep breathing therapy. It's just going to take time...and a few cuss words along the way.


----------



## begreen

Looks like our weather is going to shift in a week if the models are correct. The jet stream is predicted to flatten out and deliver us some cold and stormy weather. We will be going from the driest and warmest summer (and early fall) to a very wet one if they are correct. I will check on the models on Monday to see if they concur. If so, it's harvest time for all plants that are not going to overwinter.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

I hope you heal faster than predicted Dan!  Be careful with those pain killers.  They have a habit of sneaking up on people and causing problems.


----------



## clancey

Wow Freeman that sounds like something that I would do and I already had my ribs hurt but only about six of them bruised many years ago because I fell out of a attic when I got off the beams going across and fell down on top of a kitchen table with my arms dangling on the rafters--wow I suffered for about three or four weeks and the only thing that gave me relief was a ace bandage keeping the area still for that amount of time. I feel for you and sure hope you get feeling better real real soon. Thoughts and prayers are with you...All of rest of you people on this thread all I can say is I am so glad that I have one plant and you all it seems to me to be working "overtime" but your plants look just beautiful..My one plant is very productive and I have given many tomato's away to my neighbors. I just had a feeling that this plant would give me all the tomato's that are ready all at one time..Guessing with count here but I figure so far over 80 tomatoes and I picked 12 more today and the plant is still going strong with lots and lots of small green ones ready to maybe turn red if the weather holds. Once again freeman so sorry about your ladder accident and you will feel better each day and finally "one day" you will say-" wow I feel better today" and you will be on your way to a full recovery and those ribs will grow stronger than they were before and take vitamin d and plenty of calcium and cheese and milk and all calcium foods to help your recovery and make sure you put a ace bandage on it to hold your chest still...Saying prayers for you and God Bless....clancey


----------



## Dan Freeman

EatenByLimestone said:


> I hope you heal faster than predicted Dan!  Be careful with those pain killers.  They have a habit of sneaking up on people and causing problems.


I hope so, too.  They had me on 10mg of Oxycodone and 1mg of Dilaudid (intravenous) alternating every 2 hours for the 24 hours I was in the hospital. That's a good amount. I had them delete the Dilauded (pills) and cut the Oxy in half for use at home and only for 5 days. Doesn't take long to get dependent on these drugs, besides the fact that they can plug up bowel movements real fast!


----------



## Dan Freeman

clancey said:


> Wow Freeman that sounds like something that I would do and I already had my ribs hurt but only about six of them bruised many years ago because I fell out of a attic when I got off the beams going across and fell down on top of a kitchen table with my arms dangling on the rafters--wow I suffered for about three or four weeks and the only thing that gave me relief was a ace bandage keeping the area still for that amount of time. I feel for you and sure hope you get feeling better real real soon. Thoughts and prayers are with you...All of rest of you people on this thread all I can say is I am so glad that I have one plant and you all it seems to me to be working "overtime" but your plants look just beautiful..My one plant is very productive and I have given many tomato's away to my neighbors. I just had a feeling that this plant would give me all the tomato's that are ready all at one time..Guessing with count here but I figure so far over 80 tomatoes and I picked 12 more today and the plant is still going strong with lots and lots of small green ones ready to maybe turn red if the weather holds. Once again freeman so sorry about your ladder accident and you will feel better each day and finally "one day" you will say-" wow I feel better today" and you will be on your way to a full recovery and those ribs will grow stronger than they were before and take vitamin d and plenty of calcium and cheese and milk and all calcium foods to help your recovery and make sure you put a ace bandage on it to hold your chest still...Saying prayers for you and God Bless....clancey


Thanks, Mrs Clancey, and I winced when I read about your fall. That must have been horrific.


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## DuaeGuttae

@Dan Freeman,   I’m sorry to hear about that fall.  I hope you get well soon with no complications.  How’s the breathing going?

@begreen, it sounds as though your garden season ended up being a really productive one despite your slow start and your dry months recently.  I hope you do end up with some good moisture to help replenish the supplies up there.


----------



## GrumpyDad

EatenByLimestone said:


> I hope you heal faster than predicted Dan!  Be careful with those pain killers.  They have a habit of sneaking up on people and causing problems.


I love painkillers.  I was putting out xmas decorations once and dislocated my shoulder.  MAN does that hurt. 
Wifey had a percoset sitting in the cabinet, I washed it down with a beer and while I could still feel the pain, I didnt care.  
Ive been in a situation whereas I was prescribed 30!  Pain went away on day 15 and I still had 5 pills left. I hoarded those pills like I was smeagle from lord of the rings.  MY PRECIOUS!   Bad day at work, take a half of pill suddenly Im chipper!  Old pain coming back a bit but not worth of anything or anything beyond maybe one advil, another half.   Eventually, the pills ran out.  And I was like...eh...oh well.  

So I can see why people get hooked on those, and stay hooked, and do what they can to stay hooked and on them.


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## EatenByLimestone

Interesting Tiny Tim observation… they have a really thick stalk and stiff branches.   They’re going to be able to support a lot of fruit and leave weight.


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## Dan Freeman

Yup, they are tough little plants that can hold a lot of weight, but they can also fall over. A couple of years back I bought a package of 16" bamboo sticks. I don't tie the plant to the sticks; I just put a few in the ground around the plant so it can "lean" on them if it starts to get lopsided.
Amazon product


----------



## DuaeGuttae

At the end of July I planted two different types of beans: a red noodle yardlong bean (a cowpea species that can take heat) and Woods Mountain Crazy Bean, an old-fashioned bush bean for snaps or shellies.  They both sprouted and grew and bloomed, but the yardlong bean set pods in the heat, but the bush bean did not.  However, the yardlong bean didn’t last.  It started withering up and dying, especially on the western side of my trellis.  I’ve taken most of the vines out, and these are seeds I saved from dried beans.  The bush beans have kept growing and blooming, but only this week have they really started setting pods on a few of the plants.  We’re supposed to have a cool down (and possibly rain!) at the beginning of the week.  I’m thinking they’ll love it.  (If it doesn’t rain, I’m going to run out of water in my tanks again.)





I also transplanted some leeks a while back.  My son and I seeded a bunch indoors and really only about a quarter of them germinated.  I figured it was a combination of old seed and warm temperatures, but I went ahead and transplanted them a week or two ago.  Amusingly enough, a volunteer potato decided to sprout up just where I put one of the leeks.  It’s probably not a great situation for the growth of either of them, but every time I water there, I think of vichyssoise.




The funny thing is is that after I transplanted the leeks, the other seeds that were still in sponges on my deck started germinating.  I think they just needed some cooler weather.

I got hold of some Beaver Dam Pepper seeds after @begreen mentioned them on this thread.  I planted just two, and right now I have just two peppers, one on each plant.  The first one is pretty ripe, and the second is turning.  I plan to dry these to grind into paprika.




Once I’ve harvested the mature peppers, I’m either going to cut the plants back to some smaller growth at the bottom where there are both leaves and flowers now so that I can more easily protect them from cold, or I’m going to dig them up and try to overwinter them inside.  I’m leaning toward just leaving them in the garden to see if I can keep them alive till spring.  If a really strong cold spell gets forecast, I suppose I could dig them up then if I had to.


----------



## clancey

Sounds like a good idea to me but a cold spell is suppose to come real soon I think..The pictures are real nice to see and learn from--lots of work you are doing DG and it makes me tired--ugh...but you sure are going to have good food for the winter....nice posting...clancey


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## EatenByLimestone

How’s your back, Mrs Clancy?


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## begreen

Change is coming. This is after a dry streak since June 19th, which had one brief (.15") rain event on Sept 15th. It's going to be a shock for us and our gardens after so much sunshine, but good to finally knock down the wildfires and smoke.


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## clancey

Hey Lime my back is fine and my problem is I can't stay  up and doing work for more than 15 or twenty minutes because then I have to sit down in my chair and take a break and start my 15 or so minutes like before but I do accomplish a lot of work in that time--lol---its mostly the back muscles and I am trying to do exercises for that each day and also its part of aging for me--ugh--wish I was young again...thanks for asking and be good....My plant has went on a production craze and I gave 18 tomato's away today and I have 11 on my counter---thinking about them--lol... I will try to take some pictures later...These tomatoes seem more "juicy" then my other plant and when one cuts them the whole cutting board is wet with juice..I like my last years plant better unless someone wants stewed tomato's or something.. But my neighbors "love them" so I guess its a matter of taste and they taste real good but half my yard is taken up on that side with this "huge plant"--Big Boy--they sure named it right...clancey


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## DuaeGuttae

@begreen,  I sure do hope you get some good rain the next couple of days.  We have a chance starting late tonight, so I harvested a few things this evening: a luffa that was drying down, some dried basil flowers to save seeds, and the last two ears of my Glass Gem Corn.  The last one became the kids’ new favorite..





I harvested my first Beaver Dam Pepper yesterday and seeded it and cut it up for drying.  I was surprised at how hot it was.  It’s supposed to have a mild heat, but several of us tasted a tiny bit and agreed it was pretty hot.  I’ll still make my paprika, but it might be a hot paprika rather than a sweet with mild heat.  We’ll see.

@clancey , you have a way with tomatoes.  I wish mine would produce so well.


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## EatenByLimestone

clancey said:


> Hey Lime my back is fine and my problem is I can't stay  up and doing work for more than 15 or twenty minutes because then I have to sit down in my chair and take a break and start my 15 or so minutes like before but I do accomplish a lot of work in that time--lol---its mostly the back muscles and I am trying to do exercises for that each day and also its part of aging for me--ugh--wish I was young again...thanks for asking and be good....My plant has went on a production craze and I gave 18 tomato's away today and I have 11 on my counter---thinking about them--lol... I will try to take some pictures later...These tomatoes seem more "juicy" then my other plant and when one cuts them the whole cutting board is wet with juice..I like my last years plant better unless someone wants stewed tomato's or something.. But my neighbors "love them" so I guess its a matter of taste and they taste real good but half my yard is taken up on that side with this "huge plant"--Big Boy--they sure named it right...clancey




Most of your neighbors buy their produce from the grocery store.  Market farmers grow for profit.  Traits like color and ease of transport become more important than taste.    When they try your tomatoes, they get something they aren’t used to!


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## begreen

DuaeGuttae said:


> I harvested my first Beaver Dam Pepper yesterday and seeded it and cut it up for drying. I was surprised at how hot it was. It’s supposed to have a mild heat, but several of us tasted a tiny bit and agreed it was pretty hot. I’ll still make my paprika, but it might be a hot paprika rather than a sweet with mild heat. We’ll see.


Those Beaver Dams are deceptive. One end, usually the tip, can be sweet and mild while the other end near the stem can have real heat. Their flavor is great. We were telling a friend about them and she exclaimed, "My mom grew up in Beaver Dam, WI and no one has ever heard of the place."


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## EatenByLimestone

Those Tiny Tim’s are drinking massive amounts of water!   I’m thinking I should be feeding them more too.  

They have some tiny little suckers on a couple of the lower branches.   Should I grab a set of those little scissors for nose hair and trim them off?  Would it even matter on such a small plant?


----------



## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> Those Beaver Dams are deceptive. One end, usually the tip, can be sweet and mild while the other end near the stem can have real heat. Their flavor is great. We were telling a friend about them and she exclaimed, "My mom grew up in Beaver Dam, WI and no one has ever heard of the place."


That’s great information, @begreen.  Thanks.  I had cut a circle out of the stem end to get access to the seeds that way, and all our sample came from pieces that I trimmed off the circle.  Maybe the pepper as a whole will tone down the heat we had there.

I have another out in the garden getting redder.  It will be ready to harvest soon, I think, so I’ll be sure to try a sample from the tip of that one.

How funny about your friend’s mom growing up in Beaver Dam.  I wonder if the mom knows about the peppers from her childhood there.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

EatenByLimestone said:


> Those Tiny Tim’s are drinking massive amounts of water!   I’m thinking I should be feeding them more too.
> 
> They have some tiny little suckers on a couple of the lower branches.   Should I grab a set of those little scissors for nose hair and trim them off?  Would it even matter on such a small plant?



I don’t know anything specifically on the culture of Tiny Tims, but I do try to leave most suckers on my determinate tomatoes unless they’re too close to the soil, which is totally irrelevant here, I suppose.  I remember reading a really helpful article several years ago put out by Aerogarden that explained the purpose of pruning, but I couldn’t find it in a quick search just now.  I did find one that I’ll link below, but it’s not what I’m remembering.  (The one I remembered dealt with the hormone auxin, but using that in my search terms didn’t help either.). I do remember pruning horizontal growth on my tomatoes when they’d go outside the light hood, but that was about it.  It was mostly vertical growth that had to get cut back.






						Caring For Your Tomato and Pepper Plants | AeroGarden
					

AeroGarden




					aerogarden.com


----------



## begreen

EatenByLimestone said:


> Those Tiny Tim’s are drinking massive amounts of water!   I’m thinking I should be feeding them more too.
> 
> They have some tiny little suckers on a couple of the lower branches.   Should I grab a set of those little scissors for nose hair and trim them off?  Would it even matter on such a small plant?


Pictures please.


----------



## Dan Freeman

EatenByLimestone said:


> Those Tiny Tim’s are drinking massive amounts of water!   I’m thinking I should be feeding them more too.
> 
> They have some tiny little suckers on a couple of the lower branches.   Should I grab a set of those little scissors for nose hair and trim them off?  Would it even matter on such a small plant?


Once I see the first bloom, I usually begin applying Scott's Super Bloom, but any fertilizer high in phosphate will encourage blooming.




__





						Scotts® Super Bloom® Water Soluble Plant Food
					






					www.scotts.com
				




I remove the suckers because I think they just rob some energy that could be going into the fruiting of the plant. In addition, unlike the aero garden setup, I use regular pots and water from the top (at the soil level), so I remove all this low growth, otherwise it can make it difficult to water.


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## EatenByLimestone

begreen said:


> Pictures please.


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## EatenByLimestone

They’re growing so fast!  The bottle of fertilizer is the 3oz that came with the aerogarden.


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## Dan Freeman

Here's a pic I took of my "winter garden" so far.






2 pots on left: 20 day old Tiny Tim seedlings
2 pots on right: 13 day old Tiny Tim seedlings
2 middle pots: Romaine lettuce in back pot; buttercrunch lettuce in front pot.

I was due to plant more seeds last week and today, but with the 3 broken ribs, I have fallen behind in everything.


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## begreen

Thanks for the pictures Matt. How old are these plants?  I need to get the iDoo setup now, but have been busy harvesting outside and getting ready for the shift in weather. I planted garlic yesterday too. I have some lettuce started in the greenhouse. It's about 2" tall now so I transplanted the starts to 4" pots. Dan, your starts are coming along nicely.

It looks like our heat is going to move east. Hot weather coming to the mid-west and Indian summer for the east coast. Cold and damp coming for us. This morning is pea soup fog and 51º.


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## Dan Freeman

begreen, thanks for mentioning garlic. I completely forgot about it. I usually have it planted by now, but I still have some time to get it in the ground.


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## EatenByLimestone

The Tiny Tim’s are about a month and a half old.  I’ve got some sprouts with the original leaves on them about a week and a half too.


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## clancey

I like the looks of those Tiny Tim"s and the pictures are pretty of the indoor gardens under those lights--beautiful...I gave 12 more of my tomato's away today and they make a real nice tomato sauce with hamburger in it and other things..enjoyed the postings and I say one thing Grumpy that when you need pain pills it is sure nice to have a few around...clancey


----------



## begreen

EatenByLimestone said:


> The Tiny Tim’s are about a month and a half old.  I’ve got some sprouts with the original leaves on them about a week and a half too.


Looks good! I am ready to plant but have a couple of questions about plant spacing and water. Each hole is about 3.5" away from the next. How many Tiny Tims should I try if I also want to grow some lettuce on the side? One or two?
Do you use special water or tap water?


----------



## Dix

Going down to the upper 30's here tonight and next,  Then back up to the 50's at night for 2 weeks (what @begreen said about the upcoming weather pattern)

Covered my tomatoes & peppers with Remay, and hoping for the best.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

begreen said:


> Looks good! I am ready to plant but have a couple of questions about plant spacing and water. Each hole is about 3.5" away from the next. How many Tiny Tims should I try if I also want to grow some lettuce on the side? One or two?
> Do you use special water or tap water?
> 
> View attachment 300811


I think the tiny Tim’s are supposed to be 14” square.   I put mine down n opposite corners, 6” apart.   I bet you could put one in each corner!   

I’d put the lettuce in the center.  If it gets crowded out, you’d still have the tomatoes.   

I put 2 tomatoes on the aerogarden, then something else in the other 2 corners.   

When I was cutting the suckers off I noticed something new!  Looks like the beginnings of flowers!


----------



## Dan Freeman

Definitely the beginning of buds! Congrats.


----------



## Qvist

Just finished the garden for the year. Tomatoes and pumkins have been gone for a few days. I dug up the sweet potatoes tonight as it is likely the first frost. All that's left now is a pineapple plant indoors.


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## EatenByLimestone

A pineapple plant!   Cool!    I've only seen 1 growing in a greenhouse before!


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## begreen

Qvist said:


> Just finished the garden for the year. Tomatoes and pumkins have been gone for a few days. I dug up the sweet potatoes tonight as it is likely the first frost. All that's left now is a pineapple plant indoors.
> 
> View attachment 300832


Nice harvest! Sweet potatoes are one crop I have not grown. I don't think our soil gets warm enough, early enough. Maybe in the greenhouse?

I'll be moving the citrus plants into the greenhouse soon. November is only a couple of weeks away.


----------



## Qvist

The soil needs to be fairly warm when you plant them. I believe around 65 degrees. I usually plant them in early June and harvest right before frost. You need 120 days.  Hot days in summer really help them a lot too. 96-100 degrees is preferable but the average here is 85. They seem to grow well here in Harpers Ferry, and my grandfather used to grow them in Scranton PA for years. The soil didn't warm up quick enough up there so he used to put down black plastic to warm it up early. I'm not sure what your climate is in Puget Sound but I think it's somewhat mild? It may be possible if interested. The pineapple stays outside in the summer and comes in for the winter.  It will take 3 years to produce a fruit.


----------



## clancey

I love pineapple and that was a neat post Qvist. I think its a good idea to move your citrus plants inside bg. Just think Lime you got buds...lol  enjoyed every ones posting...clancey


----------



## Dix

Qvist said:


> Just finished the garden for the year. Tomatoes and pumkins have been gone for a few days. I dug up the sweet potatoes tonight as it is likely the first frost. All that's left now is a pineapple plant indoors.
> 
> View attachment 300832



I started a pineapple from the top piece 3 years ago, still going. I've tried again a few times with no luck.

 I do have 3 avocados (2 are 4 years, one is this year) and a lime tree (4 years) as well. All started from seed from kitchen produce remnants.


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## Qvist

Were the lime and avocado hard to start?  I started my pineapple the same way, but with difficulty. I actually Gave up and threw it on the compost pile. A week later it had rooted and I potted it.


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## begreen

OK, I have the iDoo almost fully planted, with the foreknowledge that there will be some thinning as the tomatoes get larger. I added a couple more pods of mixed variety lettuce, a couple basil, and some cilantro. It's weird just dropping in seeds in the sponge hole without tucking them in with a soil topping.
I found out today that a friend's niece has a youtube channel on her large hydroponic garden. She offers several seed recommendations. The Mini Siam tomato looks good.




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					www.youtube.com


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## EatenByLimestone

Dix said:


> I started a pineapple from the top piece 3 years ago, still going. I've tried again a few times with no luck.
> 
> I do have 3 avocados (2 are 4 years, one is this year) and a lime tree (4 years) as well. All started from seed from kitchen produce remnants.




I wonder if a lime would survive outside down there.   They grow in England so they should take a little cold.


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## EatenByLimestone

begreen said:


> OK, I have the iDoo almost fully planted, with the foreknowledge that there will be some thinning as the tomatoes get larger. I added a couple more pods of mixed variety lettuce, a couple basil, and some cilantro. It's weird just dropping in seeds in the sponge hole without tucking them in with a soil topping.
> I found out today that a friend's niece has a youtube channel on her large hydroponic garden. She offers several seed recommendations. The Mini Siam tomato looks good.
> 
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I think I've only just begun to figure out uses for the Aerogarden.  There's so much potential!


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## Dix

Qvist said:


> We're the lime and avocado hard to start?  I started my pineapple the same way, but with difficulty. I actually Gave up and threw it on the compost pile. A week later it had rooted and I potted it.


The lime was easy (I did a lemon too, but it croaked after 1 1/2 years, never did it again), Saved the seeds, let them dry on a paper plate for 2 weeks, planted in soil in the spring, and waited about 2 weeks for sprouts). Top off with composted horse manure.

The avocados were more of a challenge. The "stick a tooth pick in it over a jar of water" did NOT work. They rotted. 

 What did work was letting them dry out on a paper plate for 2-4 weeks, planting in soil, and waiting. Took 1 - 3 months. I planted 6, got 2,  4 years ago. Planted 3 this spring, got 1. 

Your mileage may vary   

Next  up for me is a Mimosa Tree. I have one that is passed it's prime. Collected the pods as they fell (drying out now, been 2-4 weeks).They need to stratify, so I'll try them in March or so.


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## Dix

EatenByLimestone said:


> I wonder if a lime would survive outside down there.   They grow in England so they should take a little cold.



I doubt it. I have to baby mine.


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## clancey

I gave another 28 tomato's away yesterday and now I have more--this plant is "productive".. It's the most unruly plant and I have plastic boxes under it to keep it off the ground and its so so heavy--the branches even to lift up and beyond this there are green tomato's still on the vine ready to get red--lots of them...lol I threw in a few pictures of my birdies...clancey


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## EatenByLimestone

Mrs Clancy, are they all rock doves?    I didn’t learn too many dove types on ornithology, lol.


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## clancey

That's a question that "you just had to ask"--lol...I am going to refer you to a link that will basically answer the question much better than I could.  Also if you can get an old book by the name of The   Pigeon by Wendell M. Levi  copyright 1941 but renewed in update 1968  that has  information as well. A lot of racers and fanciers have cut their "eye teeth" with this book.  Pigeons go back through history with different countries and it is a very complicated history. So now I will refer you to my link on here.








						Rock dove - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


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## Dan Freeman

clancey said:


> That's a question that "you just had to ask"--lol...I am going to refer you to a link that will basically answer the question much better than I could.  Also if you can get an old book by the name of The   Pigeon by Wendell M. Levi  copyright 1941 but renewed in update 1968  that has  information as well. A lot of racers and fanciers have cut their "eye teeth" with this book.  Pigeons go back through history with different countries and it is a very complicated history. So now I will refer you to my link on here.
> 
> 
> 
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> Rock dove - Wikipedia
> 
> 
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> en.wikipedia.org


I always thought "Rock Dove" was the more romantic name, and "Pidgeon" was the more common name, but basically, they are one in the same. 
	

		
			
		

		
	





	

		
			
		

		
	
  I'll have to do some reading...


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## EatenByLimestone

Since I really don’t know much about the subject, and figured there must be some selective breeding involved, it didn’t seem right to ask if they were common pigeons.   Lol

Rock dove seemed like a good alternative!   

I actually have a rock dove mount displayed at a local college.    Most of the students chose raptors, owls, or ducks for taxidermy.   I went the other way and worked on a rock dove.  There was no other work to compare my work to!  

Somewhere my wife has a pic of me working on a museum mount of a starling at the kitchen table.


----------



## begreen

Dix said:


> I doubt it. I have to baby mine.


They will take some below freezing temps for a short while. I think somewhere around 23º is the cutoff temp for our Bearss lime. I move them into the greenhouse for the winter and they have made it for several years now.

Note that lemons and limes, like apples, will not match the mother plant because they are hybrids. You may get fruit, but it could be different. Key limes are the exception.


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## EatenByLimestone

Its hard to believe they are not all grafted like apples are.   It must be profitable to find root stocks with certain traits and then pick tops for tast/production/color, etc.


----------



## Dix

begreen said:


> They will take some below freezing temps for a short while. I think somewhere around 23º is the cutoff temp for our Bearss lime. I move them into the greenhouse for the winter and they have made it for several years now.
> 
> Note that lemons and limes, like apples, will not match the mother plant because they are hybrids. You may get fruit, but it could be different. Key limes are the exception.


I did it as a goof, never it expected it to become 4' tall. I'll take what I get, if anything.  Sure smells good


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## begreen

Yes, I love walking by our citrus. They smell wonderful.


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## DuaeGuttae

I believe that we lost our Bearss lime tree this year because of a sudden temperature change at the New Year.  We had a really warm December, and suddenly on January 1st, the temperature plummeted to 24 degrees.  That was far colder than predicted, and I hadn’t tried to protect anything.  I realize now that the plants hadn’t even built up their cold defenses because of the warm December, but it was really disappointing to have the lime completely freeze.  There is green growing from the base now, but I believe it’s probably from below the graft.  I have a jungle of sweet potato foliage around it at the moment, so I haven’t dug through to look, but I’ll investigate it when the sweet potatoes are gone.  For its first several winters, we always wrapped it in remay when temperatures would drop.  During the long freeze in February 2021, we managed to keep the trunk and some branches alive by tenting it with a large incandescent lightbulb going when we had power (which we had most of the time thankfully).  It was really disappointing to lose it this year because of freezing weather no one predicted. 

We have two Meyer lemons we planted at the same time.  One is taller than I am and quite wide (though the very tips of some branches did freeze this year at the same time as the lime).  The other died to the ground during February 2021 because it didn’t have a lightbulb.  It is growing back, and we don’t know if it was grafted or not.  There’s no obvious graft point about the growth.  The foliage looks identical to what’s on the big one, so we’re just letting it grow to see what happens.  It’s probably no bigger than a foot at this point.

Our Satsuma mandarin orange that lost all its branches during the freeze of 2021 is getting big again.  It may bear 2 oranges this year, a big change from 800 or so in 2020, but we’re just very thankful that it’s alive and well.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

I cut our second Beaver Dam Pepper fruit yesterday, and today I gave the plant a major size reduction.  I took off most of the growth down to the very base, leaving a growing point on the main stem and a side shoot that has numerous buds.  This should help me protect it in cold weather, though our extended forecast is looking free from freezes through November.  That can change fast, of course, so I try to keep a close eye on things.






I cut the very tip of this pepper before I seeded it just to taste test.  It was very sweet with a mild heat that grew.  It was much more like what I had been expecting from the other one, so I’m hopeful that the two together will give us a nice paprika with a good flavor and not too much heat.  We’ll see.


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## begreen

DuaeGuttae said:


> I cut the very tip of this pepper before I seeded it just to taste test. It was very sweet with a mild heat that grew. It was much more like what I had been expecting from the other one, so I’m hopeful that the two together will give us a nice paprika with a good flavor and not too much heat. We’ll see.


That is what ours tasted like. Delightful flavor. So much so that my wife put the whole pepper in a dish and was surprised how spicy it turned out. We checked the next pepper more carefully. At the tip, sweet and mild. Up near the stem was still tasty but very hot.


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## EatenByLimestone

I noticed I’m running low on plant food. 

I’m going to try this system.   It looks like I can adapt food to the stage of the plant a bit better.

Amazon product


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## begreen

EatenByLimestone said:


> I noticed I’m running low on plant food.
> 
> I’m going to try this system.   It looks like I can adapt food to the stage of the plant a bit better.
> 
> Amazon product



I am currently using what came with the iDoo. I need to learn more about feeding, the interval, etc. If say, 1 liter of water is needed after 1 week, do you just add the water and fertilizer for the added 1 liter, or more? Do you test your solution for pH, TDS, and EC?

.A monthly cycle for cleaning is suggested. Does one just toss out the gallon of the remaining solution and start with freshly fertilized water? I see the Flora products suggest a 13 week growth cycle before flushing.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

I’m going into the feeding kind of blind.  

I’ve previously used the food that came with the Aerogarden.   This has been fine for starting seeds, but I’m not sure how well it’ll work for long term growing.   The tomatoes have been growing so much and drinking so much that I’m sure they are absorbing a crazy amount of nutrients.   I can tell you the water is staying much cleaner than I thought indicating heavy feeding.  Soil does so much of the work naturally.


----------



## begreen

EatenByLimestone said:


> I’m going into the feeding kind of blind.


Well, at least you have company.   Our seeds are just starting to sprout. I'm going to jump on the Reddit groups and get more info.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> That is what ours tasted like. Delightful flavor. So much so that my wife put the whole pepper in a dish and was surprised how spicy it turned out. We checked the next pepper more carefully. At the tip, sweet and mild. Up near the stem was still tasty but very hot.



I can see how a whole pepper could add a great deal of spice to a meal.  I ground our Beaver Dam Peppers into paprika.  The powder is very fragrant and spicy.  My daughter and I are excited by the fruitiness of it.  I don’t think we’ll be using it for paprikash as we’d need sweeter paprika for that, but we’ll have no problem using it, I’m sure.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Do you grind the seeds up too?


----------



## Dan Freeman

The rainwater tank arrived today. It weighs about 175lbs, and since the delivery was "curbside", I was planning to roll it down the driveway. Obviously, with my fractured ribs, that was out of the question. A little "greasing of the wheels" got the delivery guy to unload and bring it down the driveway for me. I probably won't get it hooked up until next Spring, but I don't need it now anyway, so no big deal.


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## EatenByLimestone

Getting it there is half the battle!


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## EatenByLimestone

I keep bringing in green tomatoes and letting their ethylene turn them on the kitchen table.  

I think I’m going to be leaving green tomatoes on the vine this winter.   

Just too many tomatoes…


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## DuaeGuttae

EatenByLimestone said:


> Do you grind the seeds up too?



Often I do grind seeds in pepper powders, but in this case I did not.  I wanted to save seeds to grow a larger quantity in the future, so I seeded these peppers and cut them before drying them.  For smaller peppers like fish peppers I dry them whole and grind the seeds.  I can see myself seeding future Beaver Dam peppers as well just because of the size.  My kids also have hopes that I will grow more in the future and ferment them.  In that case I would seed them and slice them into rings.

@Dan Freeman,  glad you were able to get your rain tank mostly where you’ll need it.  How are you feeling these days?

@EatenByLimestone , too many tomatoes?  I wish I had that problem.


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## EatenByLimestone

I finally got around to lawn maintenance at the rental and there was what I thought was a watermelon that was a bit odd looking.    We’ll, it’s not.  I have no idea what it is.   Does anybody recognize this?


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## DuaeGuttae

It looks like an immature winter squash or an over mature summer squash.  I don’t know that it’s an exact match, but “Tatume” was the first thing that popped to mind.  If it’s still soft, I’d cook it up like zucchini.  I’ve been doing that with my immature Seminole pumpkin, and they do kind of look like that inside.  Yours looks like it may be beyond the tender eating stage, though.


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## Dan Freeman

DuaeGuttae said:


> @Dan Freeman,  glad you were able to get your rain tank mostly where you’ll need it.  How are you feeling these days?


Today, marks two weeks since my fall. I can see this is going to take quite a while to recover. Generally, better, but pain comes and goes with severity, depending on how much I move around. Pain also dependent on how faithful I am to my breathing therapy. I am supposed to do the exercises once per hour. The exercising causes a lot of coughing, which creates pain, but helps to keep my left lung clear which they tell me is essential, so I don't develop pneumonia or some other kind of lung problem while recovering.


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## EatenByLimestone

You have all winter to get better and plan for next year!


One of my employees thinks it’s a hybrid of some sort.


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## begreen

EatenByLimestone said:


> I keep bringing in green tomatoes and letting their ethylene turn them on the kitchen table.
> 
> I think I’m going to be leaving green tomatoes on the vine this winter.
> 
> Just too many tomatoes…


Here are some ideas. I am going to try the green tomato pickles. 








						What To Do With Unripe Tomatoes - Waste Nothing! Tomato Geek
					

Wondering what to do with unripe tomatoes from the garden? Figure out how to use your green tomatoes with these ideas on Tomato Geek!




					tomatogeek.com


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## begreen

Dan Freeman said:


> Today, marks two weeks since my fall. I can see this is going to take quite a while to recover. Generally, better, but pain comes and goes with severity, depending on how much I move around. Pain also dependent on how faithful I am to my breathing therapy. I am supposed to do the exercises once per hour. The exercising causes a lot of coughing, which creates pain, but helps to keep my left lung clear which they tell me is essential, so I don't develop pneumonia or some other kind of lung problem while recovering.


Thanks for the update Dan. So sorry you have had this setback, but it will heal with patience. Time to relax more and read some good books.


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## EatenByLimestone

You’ve got me thinking… very dangerous, lol.     I just suggested a stir fry with some green tomatoes.   

It can’t hurt, maybe we’ll like it!


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## EatenByLimestone

The salsa verde sounds interesting too!


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## EatenByLimestone

I hand pollinated 4 tiny Tim flowers tonight.    Next month I might get a tomato, lol


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## begreen

You've been a busy bee! We're quite a ways from that, but at least we are starting to see green.


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## clancey

Hang in there free and you will feel much much better at the end of Nov and just take an easy and try not to cough too hard and wrap it  with an ace bandage just to support the ribs.  Keep the mucus spit out if you do have to cough so sorry you are going through this and soon you will be good again. Get comfortable in a chair that keeps you snug at night so that you do not move in your sleep--night is the worse..Saying prayers for you so keep the faith you will get well and when you do cough--brace yourself and do not laugh.. From a experienced "rib hurt person"--lol  and  God Bess You.   clancey.


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## Dan Freeman

Thank you for the tips, support and encouragement, Mrs. Clancey. All are much appreciated.


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## EatenByLimestone

Down to 24 tonight.   I’m up at the cabin and going to get the boat put away.   

It’s nice to lay on the couch with the T5 chugging away with a 600F stove nearby.


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## Dan Freeman

EatenByLimestone said:


> Down the 24 tonight.   I’m up at the cabin and going to get the boat put away.
> 
> It’s nice to lay on the couch with the T5 chugging away with a 600F stove nearby.


Doesn't get much better than that. Enjoy!


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## EatenByLimestone

I'm strongly considering changing my planting of tiny tims in the aerogardens.  I've been planting in the outer holes/spots.  In my 6 spot aerogardens, I planted 2 tomato plants.   In my oldest group, the outer leaves and lower leaves are self pruning as they aren't getting enough light.   I wondervif the plant would do better if it was a single plant in the center instead of 2 half plants.  But 2 plants that produce 60% yield is better than 1 plant with 100%.


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## clancey

Lime I cannot help you with your question about your aerogardens but somebody with more expertise will help you with that problem of self pruning because of not enough of sunlight but my one plant "outside" which I think I planted too late has produced in total 248 tomato's with most of them being green and smallest but the ones that mature were real juicy and I had to get used to them because I was used to store bought tomato's which are not juicy and rather on the tough side. So if you want a producing plant GO Bigboy but one thing it will take up the whole side of your plant room---lol---"at least a half of an acre and I picked the end of the plant tomato's  the other day and I have a picture coming.  Next year I will pick another variety for planting outside. clancey


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## begreen

I'm glad your tomato garden has turned into a success. The neighbors must love you. If you want less, but bigger tomatoes you need to prune them regularly. Or grow a determinate variety like the Celebrity you grew last year. 

Cold weather and a freeze are predicted for next week. Looks like it's a wrap except for the cold hardy plants. One delightful discovery in a fall planting has been Perpetual Spinach. It's actually a form of chard, but cooks and tastes like spinach, but is easier to grow and with nice big leaves. We will definitely grow this again. We have broccoli, some January King cabbage, lettuce, and carrots still growing well. Self-seeded Nasturtiums started taking off in late summer. They dominate the bed now.



The pickled green tomatoes are a hit. I'm going to do another batch. My wife is brewing up a big batch of homemade sriracha sauce. It is primarily Fresno peppers but also has some Beaver Dam and jalapenos in it. The taste is wonderful. So much better than the commercial stuff. Will taste-test the fermented peppers in a week or so. They look like they need a bit more time.


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## DuaeGuttae

Those nasturtiums look beautiful, @begreen.  I used to grow them in Virginia but haven’t had a lot of success with them in Texas.  The one time I had some good plants going down here, I didn’t have them protected from the deer, and well, that didn’t go too well.  The deer down here eat all sorts of stuff I wouldn’t expect.

I got some new seeds when I ordered seeds this summer, so I have hopes of growing some along the edges of garden next spring and summer.  I love using the leaves and petals in salads.

We haven’t had a frost yet down here, but it looks as though we might have cooler nights (in the forties) starting by the end of the week.  I think I’ll try to dig my sweet potatoes.

I have beans, beets, carrots, kale, radishes, leeks, and broccoli that all seem to be liking the cooler weather.  I’ve finally been able to make a couple of side dishes of green beans from my fall planting after not getting any harvest at all all summer.  (I had a meager harvest from the spring planting but once the heat came on early with 100+ temperatures, that was the end.  I ended up pulling the vines so that I wouldn’t have to water them.)


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## begreen

Nasturtium leaves and flowers are edible so I can see the deer loving them. They also like for temps to be on the cooler side. Try growing them in a shadier area. 

I forgot that we also have a big Russian Red kale plant. Maybe due to the situation in Ukraine. We also have some big chard plants growing.


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## EatenByLimestone

Ugh, I can't find the transformer for the 3rd aerogarden.    I remember packing it up in the box it came in.    That little box is not where it should be!

I hate not finding stuff!


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## EatenByLimestone

Ok.   Found it.   My wife borrowed it for something in her office.   Borrowed back!  She'll have to find a new one!   Lol


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## Dan Freeman

Yes, I love nasturtiums, too.

We have been pulling the last of our carrots, and with them, the end of our outdoor harvest 2022.

It has been unseasonably warm here the past week with day temps in the 70's. Last night we slept with all the windows open which is very unusual for this time of November. Heck, we haven't even had a fire yet. Looks like things should begin to get near normal over the next week to 10 days with temps beginning to drop into the 40's during the days and 20's at night.

I almost bought an aerogarden yesterday which I was thinking about just for lettuce and spinach.  I spent about a 1/2 hour on their site looking at all the models and about another 1/2 hour reading customer reviews and experiences from different sites on the web. While I can see their value and convenience for some folks depending on their needs and lifestyle, they definitely are not cost-effective as far as I can see for someone like me, so I decided not to spend the money. An areogarden would definitely be a space-saver, but space is not an issue for me. I also know form my past hydroponic experiences, that the lettuce/spinach would grow faster, but time is not an issue for me, either. But who knows, I may still get one just to have the experience and another toy to play with. 
	

		
			
		

		
	






I finally got the last 2 Tiny Tim seeds planted a couple of days ago. Just waiting for them to break ground. Here is my progress so far. (Total of 8 Tiny Tims and 4 heads of lettuce.) Planning to plant more lettuce/spinach. (Perhaps in a new aerogarden??? 
	

		
			
		

		
	





	

		
			
		

		
	
)

You can see the blossoms beginning to open on the 2 TT's on the left. (5+ weeks)


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## DuaeGuttae

Those plants are looking great, @Dan Freeman.  I like how you stagger your plantings.  How are you feeling these days?

I spent a chunk of time harvesting and watering in the garden this morning.  We had a shot at some showers, but they didn’t materialize.  Because of the possibility, though, I harvested several of the Taiga tomatoes that had changed color (they’re a green when ripe tomato, so they still look pretty green, but I can tell they’re getting closer).  I just thought I’d share a few pictures because we talked about them earlier in the summer on the thread, and I’ve been very impressed with how those same plants that I started last winter and pruned back this summer have grown and started producing this fall.





The Taigas are the heart-shaped green ones.  The rounder pinker one is a Captain Lucky which is one of the parents of Karen Olivier’s True North Tomato line, of which Taiga is a part.  She has other color hearts of different names which I haven’t tried.  The other tomatoes are mostly elongated cherries, Blush 2.0 or Maglia Rosa, from Artisan Seeds.

I also harvested some Woods Mountain Crazy Beans today to have with our supper.  My daughter harvested a few radishes to cut up for a snack for us this morning.  She likes to slice them and eat them with salt.




I also spotted my first sugar snap pea flower today.  This is one crop where I’ve not had good success here in Texas.  So far things are looking good this year.


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## Dan Freeman

Thanks, DG. I staggered them this year because last year all 8 TT's overwhelmed us with tomatoes at the same time.  This year the harvest should be more spread out and even.

Thanks for asking...Today, marks 4 weeks since I broke my ribs. The real bad pain is gone, but I still am very sore, tender and achy on my entire left side. I am moving better, but really can't do much that involves any type of weight bearing or work.

Nice haul of tomatoes, and nice pics of your latest harvest.

Well, after some more thought, I decided not to buy the aerogarden for more spinach and lettuce. Instead, I took a 4x2 table, put a frame from an old growing station on it to hang a grow light, and will use this set up for the cost of just a bag of potting soil. I will get a bag of potting soil this morning after I vote and get some seeds planted today.

The red tablecloths on top of each unit get flipped down at night since we watch TV in this room.  Without them, the room would be way too bright at night with the 3 grow lights. I'm sure people passing by see how bright the light is in those windows and think we must have a good crop of pot growing!


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## Dan Freeman

I was also going to plant 2 pots each of basil and parsley, but decided to trim and clean up these neglected plants from the greenhouse and see how they do inside. I can always plant new seeds if they don't bounce back.

The two pots on the left got Monte Carlo romaine lettuce seeds. I think romaine gives the most bang for the buck when planting a limited amount. This was our favorite when I was growing lettuce hydroponically down in the cellar last year. It has a real nice crunch to it.

The two pots on the right got 2 seeds each of Hybrid Smooth Leaf, Hybrid Savoyed, and Bloomsdale Long Standing lettuce.

I'll plant 2 pots each of lettuce and spinach every week to 10 days apart until this table is full.


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## begreen

You folks have me longing for summer already. We are still working our way through processing a boatload of peppers and tomatoes. The homemade sriracha sauce this year came out fantastic. Best ever. It has a wonderful flavor imparted by the combo of the Fresno and Beaver Dam peppers. 

Our little iDoo garden is growing. I will need to start harvesting some lettuce soon. The tiny tims are looking nice too.


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## Dan Freeman

Thoughts?

I am looking to build/buy some elevated garden beds at least 4' x 8' and 26-32" high.

My 2 contenders so far are:

*DIY*: from pressure treated 2x4's and galvanized corrugated metal roofing. (Cost: @$120 per unit)






*Buy*: Vego Garden Brand (Cost: $379.95 per unit)








						32" Extra Tall 10 In 1 Modular Metal Raised Garden Bed Kit
					

Buy 32" Extra Tall 10 In 1 Modular Raised Garden Bed Kit online at Vego Garden. We offer a wide range of garden beds in different sizes at discounted prices.




					vegogarden.com


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## begreen

The Vego Garden32" is a lot of fill without a lot of growing advantage. I like their 17" high beds better, but would prefer a 4'x10' or 12' configuration. It looks like you can buy extension panels to accomplish this.  I like the screen kit option though I wonder how much light it reduces. And I like the stainless gopher/mole screening for the bottom.


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## Dan Freeman

I would fill it like a hugelkultur mound with just about 12 inches of soil on top no matter what we eventually go with. The 17" certainly are nice and more than sufficient, but I am looking for the height as we get older for some of the things we grow. Less getting down on the ground.


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## EatenByLimestone

Are you going to want a 4’ wide bed in the future?    The height would make it easier to reach over, but it’s still a distance.


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## Dan Freeman

I would think reaching in 2 feet on either side would be doable even if much older. Your thoughts?

One nice thing about this Vego Garden 10 in 1 is that it can be adjusted to various lengths x widths.


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## clancey

If I had to do it I would get the 120.00 one and put it on top of cider block..clancey


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## Dan Freeman

clancey said:


> If I had to do it I would get the 120.00 one and put it on top of cider block..clancey



Neither has a bottom. I would have to create a bottom that would have to support all that weight and would likely rust or rot through within a few years...unless you mean cinder blocks around the entire perimeter.


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## clancey

Now you would have to make it complicated. lol... clancey...Now I am thinking...clancey


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## clancey

Well then --How about this idea? You can take the pushing handle off of it and the measurement is:
24 high and 46 long and 24 wide but you can get different sizes and they are nicely removable in case you change your mind for you are good at that---just chiding you for I am the same way. lol clancey


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## Dan Freeman

Nah. I don't want it up in the air.


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## clancey

Oh I see...but I will continue to think...lol clancey


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## EatenByLimestone

I made a 4 ft wide bed, and found it too wide for my liking, but it was low, I think it was made of 2x10s.   Having it up high could make all the difference.  

And it’s personal preference.  Most have no problem with a 4 ft bed.    The more I plant stuff, the more I seem to change and tweak.   I don’t know , lol.  I have the distinct feeling my garden will look like what my grandparents did eventually, lol.

The latest beds I’ve made were only 2 feet wide and I have a walkway on each side, I think 18”.  The thought was that I could intensively plant the narrow beds, and the walkways ensure that the sun gets to the plant sides.   I’ve liked it for the last 8 or so years as far as convenience.   I don’t like how easily the raised beds dry out.   

I have some old raised beds (2x4 height) that the boards rotted out and are now in the ground.   They get watered so little in comparison to the actual raised beds made with 2x10s.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

I like four-foot beds only if they have access from both sides.  I think there are advantages to the width for certain crops like corn or squash.  

I also have two foot beds, and I like those, too.  I only access them from one side (though I have access through trellises on the other, and I pick from both sides on the beds that have my arches).  I even plant one crop in the front and one in the back in those two foot beds.  My current example is bush beans in front and sugar snap peas by the trellis in the back.

We are expecting our first “real-deal” cold front to move in tomorrow.  There’s the possibility of some thunderstorms, and temperatures should drop throughout the day and head to the thirties overnight.  We aren’t expecting frost or freeze, but I’m still a little worried about how the plants will handle the suddenness of the change.

In light of that, I did some harvesting today.  I picked green beans to go in the fridge for later cooking, and the same variety of green beans that I have been letting go for seed.  They’re not all dried down as I would prefer, but they’re on the way, and I wanted to keep them out of the rain.  I’ve been told that this variety can soak up water in the drying pods and causes losses to the seed.




I also harvested all my sweet potatoes.  It was not a good harvest at all considering all the work I did growing the slips and watering the plants all summer.  I think the drought was just too much for me to combat.  Most of the plants only produced one or two potatoes, and they weren’t large.  Some didn’t produce any unless I just did a bad job of digging.

My most productivity actually came from the planter where I bedded the cuttings of mother potatoes for the slip production.  I couldn’t bear to lose all those, so when they got big, I dumped them into a hollow of a mulched bed in our backyard where it was easier for me to water.  They had a big head start on the garden, and spent much of their early life in a self-watering planter.  The roots from that small area (maybe 3 square feet) are the ones in the cookie sheet at the top of the picture.  They just edged out all my garden plantings combined in ounces.  I ended up with just shy of ten pounds total.  They’re in my oven (not turned on) with a dish of hot water for humidity in order to cure now for a couple of weeks or more.

I sure hope it does rain tomorrow.  We need it badly.


----------



## clancey

Well I thought and I like the 10 and 1 modular that is 32 inch high and add a trellis to it. I also like those pretty decorative ones in the heart shape and stuff but they would have to have the height.
DG--I got real hungry after seeing your beans and potato's so I got myself out a can of yams and string beans and yours look just wonderful even if the potato's are small like you say--beautiful garden and you sure worked real hard this year. You should do a video with all the wonderful knowledge that you have to offer--just wonderful...Eaten I like the two foot wide ones too but they  need to be high..Winter weather is now approaching and its coming on quick--I say--too quick.. Heavy coats and boots--ugh...Waiting for Spring...Thanks everyone with all the sharing of your wonderful know how's appreciate. Have a real nice Thanksgiving everyone and thanks..clancey


----------



## Dan Freeman

Hope you do get the rain, DG. You have had a rough season with the heat and lack of rain. I think your harvests that you have been showing are a testament to how hard you worked to combat the weather.

I have 4, 3, and 2 foot raised beds. No particular reason except for maybe the size of the wood I had when they were built. I do like the 4-foot beds as long as I can access them from both sides. I think it was Limestone who touched on the smaller the bed, the faster it dries out, which I guess is an argument to plant directly in the ground, but at 66 y/o even that 1 foot difference between the ground and a raised bed is a big difference when it comes to bending and kneeling. And it's nice to have the edge of the raised bed as support when getting up off the ground.

Even though they are 3x more expensive than the ones I could build myself, I agree with you Clancey. I really like the 10 in 1 modular 32" high beds. I don't know what their guarantee period is, but they got great customer reviews and I did read that they have a 20 year life expectancy. That is good since the only thing I will be doing in the garden in 20 years is pushing up daisies!


----------



## Dan Freeman

Well, I went ahead and ordered 1 of the Vego 32": Extra Tall 10 in 1 Modular Metal Raised Garden Bed Kits this morning which I plan to build in the 4' x 8' configuration. Once my ribs are healed, I will buy the 2x4's and galvanized corrugated roofing and build one of the other elevated garden beds I wrote about above. That will give me at least 2 to compare against each other next season.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

It must be horrible being held up by the ribs!   I have a sprained thumb that’s tough for me to not use.  I can’t imagine ribs right now, lol.   

We’re getting the remnants of a hurricane at the moment.   Luckily it’s a gentle rain.


----------



## Dan Freeman

EatenByLimestone said:


> It must be horrible being held up by the ribs!   I have a sprained thumb that’s tough for me to not use.  I can’t imagine ribs right now, lol.
> 
> We’re getting the remnants of a hurricane at the moment.   Luckily it’s a gentle rain.


Yup. Hate it! I am feeling much better pain-wise, but still feeling tender and bruised. I feel like I could be doing more, but I spoke with a few people that cautioned me to continue to take it easy and not to rush it. They said if you re-injure the ribs while they are healing, it can be almost like starting over.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Hang in there!    They’ll heal before spring!


----------



## DuaeGuttae

The rain all missed us, but the wind and cold came in fast.  It was 79 degrees yesterday, and it dropped to 37 overnight.  It may be even colder tonight.  I’m going to have to water the garden today, but I’m waiting till the sun warms things up more before I venture out into the windchill.  

@Dan Freeman, I think it’s very wise to take things slowly.  Winter is the time to slow down and heal so that you‘ll be all ready for spring.


----------



## Dan Freeman

Sorry the rain missed you DG. That is a big swing in temps. We are going to experience similar between today and tomorrow. Today close to 70; tomorrow it won't get out of the 40's.

Yup, I want this to heal correctly and well, so taking it easy is the order of the day. I have been using the time to watch a lot of YouTube gardening videos (I just love the University of YouTube). I also have started to research each fruit bush/tree I have planted in the FF and making notes on pruning, pests, fertilizer, etc. I am also going to look into putting a second greenhouse in the corner of the FF. The greenhouse I have now probably has another 3, maybe 5, years left before the polycarb needs to be replaced. Can't start planning too early. I am still obsessed with having a growing spaces geodesic dome greenhouse before I get too old to enjoy it. https://growingspaces.com/


----------



## begreen

Dan Freeman said:


> I would fill it like a hugelkultur mound with just about 12 inches of soil on top no matter what we eventually go with. The 17" certainly are nice and more than sufficient, but I am looking for the height as we get older for some of the things we grow. Less getting down on the ground.


Our beds are 16" and that works pretty well for us geezers. I have a couple of livestock tanks that are 32" and it took a lot of logs and stuff to build them up the way mentioned. They do mean no bending. 
Our 16" wide beds are 4' wide. It's not a problem because the farthest reach is 24".  One thing I really like with our cement wall beds is that the edge is strong enough so that I can use it as a fulcrum when turning with a pitchfork. That saves a lot of backache. I would want that with any metal bed too. Our livestock tanks have a heavy rolled edge on top that is strong enough, but I am not sure about the two bed systems posted, though maybe a wooden top rub rail or angle iron could be bolted on to facilitate this.


----------



## begreen

Wow, these little mini gardens grow quickly. We have the first buds on the tiny tims. They were planted Oct. 18th. 



Time to harvest a little more lettuce.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Yeah, they're cool toys!


I planted the 3rd aerogarden tonight.   1 tiny tim was planted in the middle and I put 4 green onions around the outside.


----------



## begreen

My wife told me that lettuce is up to $5.99 a head at the local store. At that price, it may no longer be a toy. We did a harvest of lettuce today in the garden but it's slowing down. I may need to set up something bigger like Dan has though I am concerned about fungus gnats in the house.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

If you can keep the soil dryish you can keep the gnats down.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

How fast do onions grow?   Cut and “planted yesterday afternoon…


----------



## Dan Freeman

An onion's average growth rate is 100 to 175 days till maturity.


----------



## begreen

EatenByLimestone said:


> How fast do onions grow?   Cut and “planted yesterday afternoon…
> 
> View attachment 302803


Will they bulb above the deck or are they just for greens?


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Just for greens.    I just cut the tops off and they keep doing their thing.    The ones planted outside will quit growing pretty soon, lol.


----------



## Dan Freeman

I put this together yesterday. It is a collage of the entire food forest pond build this past summer in under 3.5 minutes.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

I’m sure glad you got all that work done before the accident, @Dan Freeman.  Now you can sit back, relax, make videos, and heal.

It has turned cold here (perhaps what others may describe as chilly or cool), but the temperatures have dropped enough for us to run the woodstove now.  It got down to freezing briefly on Saturday night/Sunday morning, but it wasn’t a hard enough or long enough freeze to damage the garden.

Here are some recent photos:

Our first harvest of Dinosaur Kale.  I did some picking and thinning on Friday before our cold front blew in.  This went in lentil soup for supper that night while the winds blew.



Here a couple of immature Seminole Pumpkins (from the vine I cut back and that regrew) that I harvested on Monday to fry up alongside chicken drumsticks.





A sliced Taiga tomato that made a great topping for BLTs.



I had had my Glass Gem Corn drying on a tool rack near the woodstove.  I took it down when I wanted to get the gloves off the hearth now that it’s stove season again.  We shelled out the kernels after dinner on Monday, and these are the ones we saved for seed.



All summer I get out to the garden as soon as I can in the mornings to beat the heat.  These days I’ve been waiting till it warms up some before I head out there.  It’s been in the 30s in the mornings this week.


----------



## Dan Freeman

ThanksDG. Imagine if I broke my ribs in April. There would have been no dealing with me! At least it came towards the end of the season.

I am going to put together another collage of the Food Forest 2021-2022. I can't believe that was just an open field less than 2 years ago. It has changed so much. I like to take all the pictures after a project and put them together. This way if someone asks, I can just have them look at the collage. I have done several in the past of other projects: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKqGcAeyI14HOeu_JFNbRjQ/videos

Like you, we finally fired up the woodstove for the first time Tuesday morning. Last year we had started fires by November 1st. So glad we have the wood stove. We only use home heating oil for our hot water now. We got a delivery of 103 gallons yesterday and it was $5.99/gallon. Once you add in the Hazmat Fee and Fuel Recovery Fee, it came out to $6.22 a gallon. Outrageous! I want to top off our two propane tanks which we only use for cooking and the generator (if we need it). I can't wait to see what propane is going for. Last Fall, I paid $6 a gallon for it. There are going to be a lot of people suffering this winter.

I don't grow Kale. I have never been a fan of the taste. Those fried pumpkin pieces look scrumptious.


----------



## Dan Freeman

Spotted my first tomatoes on the two Tiny Tims I started from seeds in the beginning of October.





Indoor garden progress so far.




Basil & parsley in the middle that I saved from outside. Hoping it will make a comeback; two romaine heads on the left; can only make out one in this pic but spinach just starting to break ground on the right.


----------



## clancey

Sure looking beautiful..clancey


----------



## begreen

That's a rewarding sight.


----------



## Dan Freeman

I saw a few tomatoes on another Tiny Tim today. Lettuce is doing well. The parsley and basil I saved from death seems to be coming back. The lettuce is doing well, but I am a bit disappointed in the spinach seeds I planted. More should have come up by now. The seeds are a few years old. I don't know how long spinach seeds are viable for. I may have to buy a fresh packet.

I have to be careful with my indoor winter garden. I tend to water at the same rate I do during the summer, but these plants need less water since they are not subjected to strong sun, high temps, and strong winds.


----------



## begreen

Spinach can be touchy to grow and the germination rate in some packs is as weak as 50%. I would get new seeds. This year we tried perpetual spinach, which is actually a type of chard, but cooks and tastes like spinach. It was a big hit and not fussy to grow not affected by summer heat. We will definitely keep growing it. However, it may not be happy in a pot. Spinach and chard have deep tap roots.


----------



## Dan Freeman

Thanks for that input, begreen. I'll probably just order some new seeds. Never heard of perpetual spinach. I will have to look it up. Heat should not be a problem with it growing it indoors since this room stays between 65-70. I guess just the size of the pot may come into play.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

You all inspired me back in  October to start some tomatoes in one of my Aerogardens, and recently you inspired me to pay more attention to them.  I had my first blossom yesterday.  It’s fun.

We had a bit of rain this morning.  Not hard or long but enough actually to hear on the roof for a few minutes.  I’m hoping for more.

I posted a thread over the gear forum about using a moisture meter to test the dryness of my homegrown popcorn. I debated putting it over here, but I was looking more for information on the functioning of the meter, so I put it there.  I thought I’d link it here, though, for my fellow gardeners since it pertains to trying to get my homegrown popcorn actually to pop.   (And, yes, I acknowledge that admitting to doing this makes me feel just a bit over the edge.)






						Unusual Use of a Moisture Meter
					

I debated whether to put this question in the ongoing garden thread, but it pertains more to the function of a moisture meter, so I decided to go with the gear thread.  Bear with me, please, folks.  This summer I made an attempt to grow some fun-colored popcorn kernels for my children.  The...




					www.hearth.com


----------



## Dan Freeman

Congrats on your first indoor tomato blossom! What type did you plant? Are they Tiny Tim's or another variety?

I am getting some soft brown rot on my butter crunch lettuce. I think I am over watering. I tend to overwater plants. I'm going to water less, and I set up a small fan to keep the air moving over the plants.

Glad to hear you got some rain. We had an unexpected snow squall last night that left about an inch on the ground. I thought it would be melted by now (11 am), but it is still below freezing, and the sun keeps dipping behind clouds.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

it absolutely amazes me how fast these tiny tims suck up water!   If they start drinking any more ill be refilling more than once a day!     I hope I can get some red tomatoes soon, all these green tomatoes are a tease.


----------



## clancey

Now I have a sort of different question here about lettuce. I heard on the radio that lettuce has a chemical in it and "If it is bitter to the taste it has (I guess more of this chemical)--not sure only heard half of the story. Its suppose to act as a  sleep enhancer or a calming agent or something and is anyone here knowledgeable about this aspect of lettuce since you all grow your own lettuce.?  I think the lettuce has to be "neglected" or something--but not sure if  I heard this right and was in the other room. Just thought that I would ask about this anyway..clancey


----------



## Dan Freeman

EatenByLimestone said:


> it absolutely amazes me how fast these tiny tims suck up water!   If they start drinking any more ill be refilling more than once a day!     I hope I can get some red tomatoes soon, all these green tomatoes are a tease.


It seems like they are never going to turn red, but when they do, watch out. You'll have a lot of them!


----------



## Dan Freeman

clancey said:


> Now I have a sort of different question here about lettuce. I heard on the radio that lettuce has a chemical in it and "If it is bitter to the taste it has (I guess more of this chemical)--not sure only heard half of the story. Its suppose to act as a  sleep enhancer or a calming agent or something and is anyone here knowledgeable about this aspect of lettuce since you all grow your own lettuce.?  I think the lettuce has to be "neglected" or something--but not sure if  I heard this right and was in the other room. Just thought that I would ask about this anyway..clancey


If you let spinach bolt, it gets bitter. I have never heard of the sleep enhancing or calming effect aspect.


----------



## clancey

Thanks--It would be lettuce not spinach..clancey
I did a little research and come up with this piece of information..




__





						WILD LETTUCE: Overview, Uses, Side Effects, Precautions, Interactions, Dosing and Reviews
					

Learn more about WILD LETTUCE uses, effectiveness, possible side effects, interactions, dosage, user ratings and products that contain WILD LETTUCE.




					www.webmd.com
				



I also found this:








						Common Lettuce - Medicinal Herb Info
					

Contents: Common Names | Parts Usually Used | Plant(s) & Culture | Where Found | Medicinal Properties Uses | Formulas or Dosages | Nutrient Content | Bibliography Scientific Names Lactuca sativa L. Compositae Composite family Common Names Garden lettuce Back to Top Parts Usually Used Juice...



					medicinalherbinfo.org


----------



## Dan Freeman

clancey said:


> Thanks--It would be lettuce not spinach..clancey
> I did a little research and come up with this piece of information..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WILD LETTUCE: Overview, Uses, Side Effects, Precautions, Interactions, Dosing and Reviews
> 
> 
> Learn more about WILD LETTUCE uses, effectiveness, possible side effects, interactions, dosage, user ratings and products that contain WILD LETTUCE.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.webmd.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I also found this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Common Lettuce - Medicinal Herb Info
> 
> 
> Contents: Common Names | Parts Usually Used | Plant(s) & Culture | Where Found | Medicinal Properties Uses | Formulas or Dosages | Nutrient Content | Bibliography Scientific Names Lactuca sativa L. Compositae Composite family Common Names Garden lettuce Back to Top Parts Usually Used Juice...
> 
> 
> 
> medicinalherbinfo.org


OOPS! Sorry! However, lettuce does get bitter too when it bolts. Interesting links.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Ok, if you take a whole bunch of lettuce and mix with lots sugar and special varieties of yeast you can ferment it.   Given enough fermentation it should have the same properties of whiskey.  

I’ve heard from others that drinking enough whiskey causes naps.  At least that’s what others say.    



I was too busy sleeping to see what they were doing.  

But I’m sure corn and potatoes and dandelions and grapes and peaches and apples and… can be fermented too!


----------



## clancey

Thanks I took a nap too after eating a salad--lol...I was wondering and I think the radio mentioned "wild lettuce" but not sure..Never knew you could ferment lettuce and that is interesting too. Yea maybe next year I will grown some lettuce just to see how it does once again for my lettuce I grew this year did not do so well and I took off a few leaves and just left it go not paying much attention to it for it looked so bad and I just pulled it out of the ground to get rid of it.  clancey


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Over time, I’m thinking humankind has fermented and or smoked everything.  I don’t particularly recommend either, lol.  

I tried making sourkraut once.  It didn’t go well.  I made hard cider once too, but didn’t add enough sugar and it wasn’t very hard, lol.


----------



## clancey

LOL--I would leave it up to the "experts". Let them boil something and add sugar...clancey


----------



## begreen

EatenByLimestone said:


> it absolutely amazes me how fast these tiny tims suck up water!   If they start drinking any more ill be refilling more than once a day!     I hope I can get some red tomatoes soon, all these green tomatoes are a tease.


Yes, I am up to about a liter every other day now. Tomato blossoms are starting to open and I had to raise the light height again. 

No rain here. Today we tied for the driest Nov. on record, tomorrow we set a new record. We are at 1/6th normal rainfall for this month which is usually our rainiest. Not good for the trees or recharging the aquifers. It looks like we may get some rain on Tues. We'll see.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

Dan Freeman said:


> Congrats on your first indoor tomato blossom! What type did you plant? Are they Tiny Tim's or another variety?
> 
> I am getting some soft brown rot on my butter crunch lettuce. I think I am over watering. I tend to overwater plants. I'm going to water less, and I set up a small fan to keep the air moving over the plants.
> 
> Glad to hear you got some rain. We had an unexpected snow squall last night that left about an inch on the ground. I thought it would be melted by now (11 am), but it is still below freezing, and the sun keeps dipping behind clouds.


They aren’t Tiny Tims.  I did look for seeds but couldn’t get any at the places where I was getting other seeds this summer.  I had two seed pods that came in an Aerogarden kit that my daughter got as a gift some years back.  I think one is just called something generic like “Red Heirloom Cherry” and the other is “Golden Harvest Cherry.”  It was the rest one that bloomed first, though the golden one is not far behind.

@EatenByLimestone, just how many green tomatoes do you have?  I think we may need a picture.

@begreen, I’m sorry that you’re having continued trouble with drought.  We just got four tenths of much needed rain, but I think we’re still under ten inches for the entire year at this point.  I hope you’ll get some nice rain on Tuesday.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

DG, here’s a pic of some of the tomatoes.    The dead leaves are from branches that fell outside tge arc of light.    The plants have been bumping up against the light for some time, it burnt some leaves.


----------



## Dan Freeman

Today marks 6 weeks since I broke my ribs, and I decided I was not going to sit in the house all afternoon. So, even though they weigh 74 lbs. each, I figured I would carefully open and unpack the two 4x8x32" raised beds that arrived last week that are in my workshop.

Two different brands (made in China) and distributed here in the US by two different companies, but I imagine made by the same factory since there are only minor differences.











I did not plan to start the assembly, but it felt good to be doing something, so I turned up the heat and put on the radio, and before I knew it, I had almost put one completely together. 











You can see I did not attach the two sides. It will be easier to move them out the door where I can make the final connections on the lawn.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Nice!     That'll take a while to fill!


----------



## Dan Freeman

EatenByLimestone said:


> Nice!     That'll take a while to fill!


Going to use hugelkultur. Only the top 10" or so will be soil.  https://vegogarden.com/blogs/academ...ds-and-save-money?_pos=1&_sid=29d2d0565&_ss=r


----------



## EatenByLimestone

I'll be curious on how well your beds hold water!  My raised beds dry out super fast.


----------



## Dan Freeman

EatenByLimestone said:


> I'll be curious on how well your beds hold water!  My raised beds dry out super fast.



That's one of the benefits of hugelkultur. The wood acts as a sponge.


----------



## Dan Freeman

Finished putting together one of the elevated beds and got started on the 2nd one. 7 more arriving on Friday.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Thats a big bed!


----------



## begreen

EatenByLimestone said:


> I'll be curious on how well your beds hold water!  My raised beds dry out super fast.


Ours do pretty well.


----------



## begreen

Dan Freeman said:


> Finished putting together one of the elevated beds and got started on the 2nd one. 7 more arriving on Friday.
> 
> Happy Thanksgiving everyone.
> 
> View attachment 303648
> View attachment 303649


That's a big baby. I'm glad they have inner reinforcing struts. I'll be watching this to see what you think after a year. I give the black edge cording on top one season.


----------



## Dan Freeman

begreen said:


> That's a big baby. I'm glad they have inner reinforcing struts. I'll be watching this to see what you think after a year. I give the black edge cording on top one season.


I'm with you on edging, but it really isn't even necessary since the tops are rolled and not sharp. Guess they figure it gives it a nice "finish".


----------



## DuaeGuttae

EatenByLimestone said:


> DG, here’s a pic of some of the tomatoes.    The dead leaves are from branches that fell outside tge arc of light.    The plants have been bumping up against the light for some time, it burnt some leaves.
> 
> View attachment 303454


Thanks for the photo.  How high does your light hood go?  I’ve been raising mine, but I haven’t gotten to the max yet, but I also don’t have any green tomatoes either.  I started my seeds later than you guys did because I was inspired by all your talk of your tomatoes.

I haven’t done a lot outside in the garden this week because each day has started off with “a misty, moisty morning,” and today is downright foggy.  There hasn’t been a lot of precipitation, but it looks like the forecast may have some actual significant rain in it for tomorrow.  

I’m going to see if I can harvest a mess of Woods Mountain Crazy Beans for our Thanksgiving meal later today.  I’ve been leaving them alone because of damp foliage, but I think I’ll need to it today, dampness or not.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

Dan Freeman said:


> Going to use hugelkultur. Only the top 10" or so will be soil.  https://vegogarden.com/blogs/academ...ds-and-save-money?_pos=1&_sid=29d2d0565&_ss=r
> 
> View attachment 303554



All of our raised beds are a mini hugelkultur setup.  They do dry out fast in our heat, but they are better than our native soil because they have more organic matter.  I have some really large terra cotta pots where I was able to build up a larger percentage of rotten wood at the bottom, and those do hold moisture better, being deeper with less exposed surface area to volume ratio.  Of course, I also have ollas buried everywhere to try to keep moisture submerged in my soil.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

I just measured and they go up 11”.   A couple more inches would have been nice!

The shorter plants are batch #2.

#3 has a way to go!   Maybe I’ll get to pick some in April?  Lol


----------



## DuaeGuttae

Those onions have grown fast, @EatenByLimestone .  They look good.

I’ll have to measure my hoods again.  I think one of mine goes to 11 inches, but the other maybe goes to 13.  I can’t remember.  I did notice my first green tomato on the red variety in the Aerogarden this morning.

Yesterday I harvested a little over half a pound of beans for our Thanksgiving meal as well as some parsley to put in the stuffing (and some greenish tomatoes that were either blushing or had fallen to the ground).




I also harvested the only two Mandarin oranges that we had on our trees this year.  It has grown back really well after losing all its branches to the February 2021 freeze, but it didn’t put on many flowers this year probably because it was too busy growing.  I also harvested some ginger root.  Both the oranges and the ginger went into our cranberry sauce.





I also wanted to show a picture of the ripened Taiga tomatoes.  These were the least mature of the ones that I showed in a photo earlier this month, but they are ripening nicely inside.  I need to use them soon.




We have been having a damp week but without much rain accumulation.  That may change later today if a forecast storm pushes through.  I’m really hoping for a soaking rain.  

I took the opportunity this morning to seed out some crops for fall/winter/spring.  I reseeded Upland Cress.  I had tried about a month ago with no success.  I also seeded a bed with some lettuce seeds I had saved last year.  I put out some Daikon Radish cover crop seeds in a few different places.  Even though it’s not really the right time of year, I also put in just a very few Chinese Cabbage seeds.  I know a good cold would wipe them out, but I just want to see what they might do.  Finally, I also transplanted an artichoke and a rhubarb plant that I’ve been growing in small pots on my deck.  They went into a planter in the garden.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Hmmm, ginger cranberry sauce.  I never thought of those two together.   

We’re having a bit of a thaw.  Maybe I should dig some horseradish.


----------



## RomanW

Can anyone recommend a good set of indoor growing lamps? Preferably that work well under a cabinet? We have some extra countertop space on one side of our kitchen, and the wife and I want to use it to grow some veggies inside during the winter, so I was going to mount some LED uv lights under the cabinet over top of some planters.


----------



## Dan Freeman

RomanW said:


> Can anyone recommend a good set of indoor growing lamps? Preferably that work well under a cabinet? We have some extra countertop space on one side of our kitchen, and the wife and I want to use it to grow some veggies inside during the winter, so I was going to mount some LED uv lights under the cabinet over top of some planters.



Only problem with that Roman is if you mount them, you can't adjust the height. Grow light distance from your plant canopy needs to be adjusted as your plants grow. In any event, when folks ask for grow light recommendations, I only recommend one brand, Happy Leaf Led Grow Lights. I have tried many over the years. Now that I found Happy Leaf, I will never buy another brand. Not cheap, but the best grow lights I have ever used. https://happyleafled.com/


----------



## Dan Freeman

I finished assembling the 2nd large, elevated bed this afternoon just before it started raining. Seven more (smaller) are supposed to arrive via UPS this afternoon.


----------



## begreen

Look at that Matt, you've got little tomatoes! The Tiny Tims are now dominating our little garden with lettuces and basil hanging out the sides. I've done a few lettuce pickings already. Our iDoo goes up to 15". I just raised it all the way for this picture. These plants are growing fast. Planted 10/19. Should I trim the roots of the tomatoes?


----------



## begreen

Dan Freeman said:


> Now that I found Happy Leaf, I will never buy another brand. Not cheap, but the best grow lights I have ever used. https://happyleafled.com/


I like their business model, small, independent, and made in USA.


----------



## RomanW

Dan Freeman said:


> Only problem with that Roman is if you mount them, you can't adjust the height. Grow light distance from your plant canopy needs to be adjusted as your plants grow. In any event, when folks ask for grow light recommendations, I only recommend one brand, Happy Leaf Led Grow Lights. I have tried many over the years. Now that I found Happy Leaf, I will never buy another brand. Not cheap, but the best grow lights I have ever used. https://happyleafled.com/


Good point. We're probably going to go the micro green route, so hopefully height won't be too much of an issue


----------



## EatenByLimestone

BG, 

I haven’t trimmed any roots.   I have pulled the tray up and folded the roots over to make sure they aren’t growing into the pump. 

 I’ve wondered if I should trim roots, but keep coming back to the plant wanting them to be there and that more roots should equal more nutrient uptake.    They don’t seem to be root bound.


----------



## begreen

I probably should have done this earlier, but will inspect the roots today. 


			https://hydrobuilder.com/learn/root-pruning/


----------



## begreen

DuaeGuttae said:


> I also harvested the only two Mandarin oranges that we had on our trees this year.  It has grown back really well after losing all its branches to the February 2021 freeze, but it didn’t put on many flowers this year probably because it was too busy growing.  I also harvested some ginger root.  Both the oranges and the ginger went into our cranberry sauce.
> 
> 
> I took the opportunity this morning to seed out some crops for fall/winter/spring.  I reseeded Upland Cress.  I had tried about a month ago with no success.  I also seeded a bed with some lettuce seeds I had saved last year.  I put out some Daikon Radish cover crop seeds in a few different places.  Even though it’s not really the right time of year, I also put in just a very few Chinese Cabbage seeds.  I know a good cold would wipe them out, but I just want to see what they might do.  Finally, I also transplanted an artichoke and a rhubarb plant that I’ve been growing in small pots on my deck.  They went into a planter in the garden.


Mandarin oranges, ginger, and tomatoes in November, so nice. There are some perks to living in a hot climate.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> Mandarin oranges, ginger, and tomatoes in November, so nice. There are some perks to living in a hot climate.


We figure if we live here, we might as well take advantage of it.  The ginger is inside the house now, though, and has been for a couple of weeks as our winters are definitely too cold for it.  Our lemongrass outside is still alive at the moment, though, since we haven’t yet had a killing freeze.

We got 5/8 of an inch of rain late last night from a storm.  It wasn’t as much as predicted, but it’s still significant given our exception drought status.  That nice soaking should help my seeds germinate.  It was lovely to go to sleep to the sound of rain and to wake up this morning to sunshine making sparkles on the wet leaves.

I did once prune roots in my Aerogarden.  It’s probably somewhere in one of these threads.  I can’t remember the crop.  It may have been lettuce or kale.  I don’t think it was tomatoes or peppers.  I do remember that it did not seem to bother the plants at all.

I have in the past transplanted some fairly large tomatoes and peppers out of an Aerogarden into pots.  That did require some root destruction, and they did survive that.  That was when I had grown the plants in the winter but then wanted to use the Aerogarden for seed starting come January or February.


----------



## Dan Freeman

It's nice to hear of so many people doing winter gardening inside.

When I have done hydroponics in the past, I trimmed roots, but only to keep them from clogging the tubes or connection from one tube to another and creating an overflow onto the floor.

Agree with you, begreen, about living in a warmer climate. I would love to grow citrus. And thanks for that link about root pruning.

Got another elevated bed assembled today.






Also scored a truck load of sawdust from the guy I buy firewood from. I use it in the food forest and the chicken coop/run.

View attachment 303896


We finally got the leaves raked and blown into the woods from around the food forest. Many of them are from two large Black Walnut trees, so we don't compost them because of the toxic juglone.


----------



## Dan Freeman

Just some updated indoor garden pictures...

Here's a shot of the North 40.




The tomato plants are doing well, and you can see we have been eating some of the outer leaves of the lettuce on the top shelf.




This plant has the most tomatoes so far with 28. The Tiny Tim tomatoes seem like they are never going to turn red, but once they begin, there are so many of them.




Very happy with how the basil and parsley have bounced back after being neglected outside towards the end of the season. The spinach is soooooo sloooooow to grow.


----------



## Dan Freeman

After putting together the collage of the Food Forest Pond last week, I decided to make another one of the FF in general since we started. I wish I had been more consistent with picture taking, though. There are some large gaps of time and work in this. I'm going to try and be better about that this next season.


----------



## begreen

Very nice Dan! You certainly have accomplished a lot.


----------



## clancey

Hey free --Just wondering about all that filling of your new Garden Tank and wondering "why" you could not just fill it with maybe river rock on the bottom and the rest just soil from your yard? Would your way grow the plants better or something or maybe you want it lighter for I just do not understand. Could not you rent a cat or something and just put "dirt" into it? Just curious on why you are doing it this way?  Beautiful video and well done....clancey


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## Dan Freeman

The hügelkultur method is a very economical way to fill these high beds and will feed the upper soil and hold moisture for less watering for many seasons, as opposed to filling the bottom with non-organic material (rocks) or "soil from the yard".  I don't know if I put a link to this article earlier but give it a read Mrs Clancy. It's all about hügelkultur. 









						How To Fill Raised Garden Beds With Soil And Save Money
					

Once you have assembled your Vego organic gardening raised beds, the next task is filling the raised garden beds before planting. One of the most common questions we get from new gardeners is how to fill a new raised bed and still save money. There are many different methods out there that work...




					vegogarden.com


----------



## clancey

Thanks I missed it but will give it a read...clancy..


----------



## DuaeGuttae

@Dan Freeman,

 I just sat down for a few minutes while my beets and greens (a very small harvest from the garden) are cooking on the stove and meat and potatoes are finishing in the oven and watched your food forest video.  You put a lot of work into that, and I hope it bears much fruits (and many flowers, herbs, and vegetables) for you in years to come.  It looks like a great project.


----------



## Prof

Dan Freeman said:


> Going to use hugelkultur. Only the top 10" or so will be soil.  https://vegogarden.com/blogs/academ...ds-and-save-money?_pos=1&_sid=29d2d0565&_ss=r
> 
> View attachment 303554
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I


I use this method exclusively. My land has a crazy amount of rock in it. Digging a post hole can take more time than it is worth. So the raised bed method was a logical choice. I built one hugelkultur that is about 30 ft long and 3 ft high and have several raised beds using hemlock boards (more similar to what you are planning). I have no shortage of rotting wood since my beech trees are getting slaughtered by a few diseases and pests. Both methods work well for me, but the raised bed method is my preferred way to do things. Good luck and enjoy!


----------



## Dan Freeman

DuaeGuttae said:


> @Dan Freeman,
> 
> I just sat down for a few minutes while my beets and greens (a very small harvest from the garden) are cooking on the stove and meat and potatoes are finishing in the oven and watched your food forest video.  You put a lot of work into that, and I hope it bears much fruits (and many flowers, herbs, and vegetables) for you in years to come.  It looks like a great project.


Thank you, DG. It has been a lot of work, but it has been a new challenge and fun. We're hoping to improve upon it each season and can't wait to see it in another few years when it really begins to resemble a food forest.


----------



## Dan Freeman

Prof said:


> I use this method exclusively. My land has a crazy amount of rock in it. Digging a post hole can take more time than it is worth. So the raised bed method was a logical choice. I built one hugelkultur that is about 30 ft long and 3 ft high and have several raised beds using hemlock boards (more similar to what you are planning). I have no shortage of rotting wood since my beech trees are getting slaughtered by a few diseases and pests. Both methods work well for me, but the raised bed method is my preferred way to do things. Good luck and enjoy!


LOL. I see you live in PA, too, where rocks are our Number 1 crop. We started using raised beds a number of years ago. This will be our first experience with the tall ones and the hügelkultur method.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

I started trimming roots yesterday and also trimmed the plants where they are touching the lights.   

I think my tiny Tim’s are on steroids.   The pics of tomatoes don’t look like this, lol.  That’s 1 tomato with weird bulges.


----------



## Dan Freeman

Looking real good, Limestone!


----------



## Prof

Dan Freeman said:


> LOL. I see you live in PA, too, where rocks are our Number 1 crop. We started using raised beds a number of years ago. This will be our first experience with the tall ones and the hügelkultur method.


I've made some great stone walls around my place!


----------



## Dan Freeman

Prof said:


> I've made some great stone walls around my place!


Same here, but that was over 20 years ago, and I have the two carpal tunnel surgeries to prove it! No more rock walls for me.


----------



## begreen

Dan Freeman said:


> The hügelkultur method is a very economical way to fill these high beds and will feed the upper soil and hold moisture for less watering for many seasons, as opposed to filling the bottom with non-organic material (rocks) or "soil from the yard".  I don't know if I put a link to this article earlier but give it a read Mrs Clancy. It's all about hügelkultur.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How To Fill Raised Garden Beds With Soil And Save Money
> 
> 
> Once you have assembled your Vego organic gardening raised beds, the next task is filling the raised garden beds before planting. One of the most common questions we get from new gardeners is how to fill a new raised bed and still save money. There are many different methods out there that work...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vegogarden.com


Looks like it will take a few cords of wood to fill all those new beds with a foot of wood. Do you get this for free?


----------



## begreen

EatenByLimestone said:


> I started trimming roots yesterday and also trimmed the plants where they are touching the lights.
> 
> I think my tiny Tim’s are on steroids.   The pics of tomatoes don’t look like this, lol.  That’s 1 tomato with weird bulges.
> 
> View attachment 304141


Nice. They're looking good. Our tiny tims are now within 2" of the lights raised all the way. I think I will need to do the same. Hate to do this when they are full of blossoms. Water consumption is now up to 1 liter a day or about a gallon every 4 days.


----------



## Dan Freeman

begreen said:


> Looks like it will take a few cords of wood to fill all those new beds with a foot of wood. Do you get this for free?


I have a good number of trees (mostly white pine and poplar) that I cut down a few years ago that I have piled on the edge of my property/woods. They will be ideal since you want wood that has started to decay rather than fresh cut wood. I have a lot of ash that was cut around the same time, but that is still good for burning, so I prefer not to use it for the gardens unless I don't have enough poplar and white pine.


----------



## Prof

Dan Freeman said:


> Same here, but that was over 20 years ago, and I have the two carpal tunnel surgeries to prove it! No more rock walls for me.


I hear you--I pulled more than a couple muscles (and other things) when I first moved to my place. I bought a skid steer about a year ago. It makes the moving of rocks easier (still not a pleasure though).


----------



## DuaeGuttae

EatenByLimestone said:


> I started trimming roots yesterday and also trimmed the plants where they are touching the lights.
> 
> I think my tiny Tim’s are on steroids.   The pics of tomatoes don’t look like this, lol.  That’s 1 tomato with weird bulges.
> 
> View attachment 304141


I think this can sometimes happen when multiple flowers are fused together.  It happens on big tomatoes, too.  I don’t know if that’s what’s going on, though.  Are all your other fruits just normal cherries?


----------



## DuaeGuttae

We’ve had a couple of very foggy, misty days the past two days, and I had to be doing lots of stuff that kept me away from the garden.  I had been surface watering seeds every day, but I was hoping that the mist was taking care of keeping the surface moist for me.  It only measured about 1/10 of an inch of rain, but I was very pleased with how things looked today.

This is just one corner of a large bed where I sprinkled some lettuce seeds.  I collected the flowering heads last year and left them in a paper bag in my garage.  I never got to cleaning them, but I took them out last week before a forecast rain shower and sprinkled them.  This corner got the largest concentration, I think, since it’s where I stared, but the whole bed has little green sprouts in it.  I sure hope it’s the lettuce.

At about ten o’clock in that first picture, you can also see a sprouted acorn.  I thought it looked pretty cool, so I took a closer shot before I tossed it towards the trees.  I have lots of acorns that fall in parts of my garden, so I’ll probably pull some oak sprouts this spring.




These are some cover-crop Daikon radish seedlings that I sprinkled in two small square beds and in a couple of empty places in longer beds.  I think I saw the first sprouts on Wednesday.



Back in mid-October I had sprinkled some bunching onion seeds in a pot where I had earlier transplanted some onions I had grown inside.  Those onions fell victim to one of the diggers in September, so I just tried direct sowing.  Nothing had come up for weeks and weeks, so it was quite a pleasant surprise to see lots of sprouts this morning.  (The fallen leaves are basil that’s starting to shed in the cooler weather.)


----------



## Dan Freeman

DuaeGuttae said:


> I think this can sometimes happen when multiple flowers are fused together.  It happens on big tomatoes, too.  I don’t know if that’s what’s going on, though.  Are all your other fruits just normal cherries?


I went back and looked at that picture a second time. I think DG may be right about 2 or more tomatoes fusing together.

Interesting...look up "fasciation of flowers" and "fasciation of flowers tomato plants" for further info/reading.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Could very well be!   There are 3 on the plant that look like that.  The rest look normal.


----------



## Dan Freeman

Never too early to begin picking up seeds for next season, even though I have tons of seeds already in my seed box.

Picked up some Glorious Gleam Nasturtium seeds yesterday




and some Victoria Rhubarb seeds (introduced in honor of Queen Victoria in 1837).




And got the 5th raised bed put together. 4 more to go.


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## EatenByLimestone

I love rhubarb!   I’ve got some plants that were split from my Great Aunt’s house and were planted in their current spot before I was born!


----------



## Dan Freeman

We used to have some on our property, but it eventually died out. I don't know what variety it was since it was here when we moved in. While some varieties will grow for 20+ years, some will only grow for 10ish years. We are planting Victoria (the gold standard of rhubarb varieties) (https://www.motherearthnews.com/real-food/victoria-rhubarb-zmaz10djzraw/). BTW...did you know rhubarb is considered a vegetable and not a fruit, although we treat it as a fruit the way we prepare/eat it. (I just found that out in the article I linked to.)


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Since I’ve only eaten the stalks I’ve never thought of it as a fruit!


----------



## Dan Freeman

EatenByLimestone said:


> Since I’ve only eaten the stalks I’ve never thought of it as a fruit!


LOL. I hope that's all you ate since the leaves are highly poisonous.

I think most folks think of rhubarb as a fruit since it is mainly used in tarts, pies, jams and other sweets, along with a lot of sugar.


----------



## begreen

It's never appealed to me. Too much sugar is needed to make it palatable.


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## EatenByLimestone

My wife used it in stir fry.   I can't remember how it tasted.   Its more than a bit bitter without the sugar.


----------



## begreen

Oh oh, these Tiny Tims are no longer tiny. They have put on a lot of height in the past week and are now past the light which has been raised to its maximum height. I don't relish the idea of trimming them because right now it's the flower stalks that are too high, but it won't take long at this rate for the leaves to get there too. They are full of flowers.

What should I do? Cut them down and give up lots of tomatoes? Tty and transplant them to pots with soil and put them under grow lights? The package says they grow to 16" tall, but they are already at 17". How tall should I plan on?


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## Dan Freeman

They are probably getting that large because you are growing them hydroponically, and they are reaping all the benefits of that rich nutrient solution you have them in. Don't cut them if you can help it and sacrifice those blooms. Do you have another grow light that you can rig up higher than the built-in light of the aero garden? I would move them to soil as a last resort. I have never tried that, but I wonder how going from nutrient solution to potting soil might affect the plants.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

Wow, @begreen, those are big.  I agree with @DanFreeman, that they’re exceeding expectations because of the excellent growing conditions.  I’ve never grown Tiny Tims, but I do top my Aerogarden tomatoes to keep them under the lights when necessary.  It does sacrifice some blossoms, but I figure that they’ll put out more growth to the sides, and there will be blossoms there.   I want to maintain the overall health of the plant more than I want to get every single blossom produced to flower.

On the other hand, I have also removed tomatoes from the Aerogarden and potted them up.  If I were planning to do that, I would do it in two stages.  I would first prune the roots as drastically as I would need to in order to remove the plant from the system.  Then I would return it to the system for a couple of days to let it recover from the shock of pruning.  Once it had had time to recover, I would then transplant it to potting soil that I keep extra moist for a couple of days.  I have done it successfully like this in the past.  Do you have an additional light source if you take them out of the Aerogarden?

Here’s an interesting link I read recently on Aerogarden tomatoes that I thought you an @EatenByLimestone might enjoy.









						How to Grow Fresh Tomatoes All Winter with an Aerogarden
					

The holy grail of a good tasting tomato in the dead of winter is possible WITHOUT a greenhouse thanks to the Aerogarden.




					www.groundedandgrowing.com


----------



## begreen

Great article DG, thanks.
I do have a set of LED grow lights that I could try, though I am concerned that the Tiny Tim is just too big of a tomato for this system. The plants are 49 days old.  I have been watering and feeding by the book and have not overfed them. They have put on a couple of inches of growth in just 3 days so I am not sure when they are going to stop. Thanks for the suggestions on the root prune, and then back to the iDoo for a short wait before the transfer. I may try a transplant with just one of the plants. We'll see. If I do transplant them I would water with the nutrient solution for a week or two until they get established in the pots.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

I just let them continue growing over the light.   I set up a red and blue grow light over them though.  They’re blooming up there so they can’t be unhappy.   

This is all new to me.   I could be doing everything very wrong, lol.   I’m having fun though!   

The story seems to mimic what I’m seeing.


----------



## clancey

Why would you want to prune the roots drastically anyway--poor little things--cannot you separate them only when you have to cut the roots--or is it for being more efficient to faster separate them.?Those Tiny Tim tomato"s look good to me...after all I just raised all last summer "Big Boys" that took up the whole 1/4 of my side yard.. lol  I like the idea of higher lights and then they would have even more room to grow since they are so so tall. Why maybe put them in soil and put "lights" on them and just let them do their own thing so to speak.. Enjoying all your postings..clancey


----------



## Dan Freeman

Sorry for such a long post...

Things have been rather slow the past few days and will most likely slow down even more as the weather continues to grow colder and the snow begins to fall.

The daytime temps have been in the 35-45 range this past week, but little to no sun, breezy and damp, which makes it feel nasty outside. (I've also noticed on these types of days, my ribs hurt more!) We are entering what I refer to as "Pocono Winter Days". Even when sun is predicted, it usually gives way to clouds around 9-10am. It usually returns, but not until 3-4pm. My "theory" is it must have something to do with the air masses flowing over the mountains as the air warms slightly during the day in the winter, but I have never found anything solid to back up my theory. I find it quite depressing considering the weatherman has called for a sunny day, my friends on other forums are mentioning nice sunny days, and it is gray and cloudy here. Oh well, there are worse climates to live in...

Yesterday, I did manage to clean the chicken coop and run. I added everything to the compost pile, put new pine wood shavings in the coop and about 4" of sawdust from that load my wood guy dropped off a week or so ago. The sawdust (a brown) along with kitchen waste and chicken poop (both greens) should make for some excellent compost.







I am tending to my indoor garden every day.




I seem to have more fungus gnats this year, as the little yellow sticky traps I have hung are loaded with them. (One drawback of planting in potting soil as opposed to growing hydroponically.)




I am very pleased with the tomato plants, parsley and basil, but disappointed with the spinach and the lettuce. I have just about decided that it is almost futile growing spinach inside during the winter. Not sure what it is since the temps in the den are good and the grow lights are superior, but the spinach just grows soooo slooowly.




The lettuce is another story. It grows well and the yields are good, but I just can't seem to grow lettuce indoors without the tips getting brown (called tipburn). This does not ruin the lettuce as the brown tips can be cut off. I just don't like the looks and it is time-consuming (or a waste if it goes too far) trimming each lettuce leaf. (I like to grow leaf lettuces, so I can pick the lettuce as I need it; I understand it is less of a problem with head lettuces.)






An alternative is to harvest the lettuce while it is small.




At first, from what I read, I thought it might be a transpiration problem with the lettuce, and I set up a fan to gently throw a breeze over the plants, but it continued.

Now, I think it is a combination of transpiration and calcium availability. Not that there isn't enough calcium in the potting soil (or nutrient water when I grow hydroponically), but that the lettuce is growing so fast that the plant cannot avail itself of the calcium.

_Read more at Gardening Know How: What Causes Tipburn In Lettuce: Treating Lettuce With Tipburn https://www.gardeningknowhow.com/edible/vegetables/lettuce/treating-lettuce-with-tipburn.htm_

In any event, I will keep plugging away trying to grow better lettuce. If anyone has suggestions, please let me know.

One last picture. Sooooo many tomatoes, but they are all still green! I figure about another week or so and I will begin to see some color change. Here are  the first two tomato plants (from seed) that I planted this winter season.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Ugh, fungus gnats aren’t very fun!  (Groan!)

For houseplants, I’ve used dusts effectively to get rid of them, but you’re dealing with food.   I don’t know if I’d even feel comfortable with an organic dust.   

I might take the cool weather plants to a colder room, maybe even outside for the day if it’s above freezing and see if I could get them to fly away, lowering the population inside.


----------



## Dan Freeman

EatenByLimestone said:


> Ugh, fungus gnats aren’t very fun!  (Groan!)
> 
> For houseplants, I’ve used dusts effectively to get rid of them, but you’re dealing with food.   I don’t know if I’d even feel comfortable with an organic dust.
> 
> I might take the cool weather plants to a colder room, maybe even outside for the day if it’s above freezing and see if I could get them to fly away, lowering the population inside.


Yeah, I wouldn't want to use a dust on vegetables. The yellow traps actually do a good job. (I was surprised.) I never see more than 2 or 3 gnats flying around now where they were all over the place before I put up the traps. I believe I read they are attracted to the yellow color.


----------



## clancey

Free---your plants look just beautiful even the lettuce with the (tipburn) but that would aggravate me too--those gnats that is but everything looks really really healthy and your chickens look just great and happy too. Make sure they have enough of winter bedding to keep warm inside their box unless you have some kind of a heater going for like you said "more cold weather" coming with moisture according to the weather channel with high wind and tornado weather (possible) for  the south so it's beginning to feel like winter now--ugh and your ribs will hurt in the colder weather for now but they will adjust back to normal with time but if you wrap them it will relieve a lot of the hurt and you will feel better..clancey


----------



## Dan Freeman

Thanks, Clancey. I don't bother to heat the chickens' coop. Actually, and most folks don't realize this, chickens can handle the cold better than the heat. More chickens die of the heat in the summer than cold in the winter. The only thing I have to watch out for in the winter is frost bite to their combs and wattles., but I close all the vents on the coop, and they are OK with just their body heat during the night...when they sleep in the coop. Many nights they sleep on the roost outside.

Today it sunny and dry. My ribs feel better today. Yes, as an old fart, it will take time.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

@Dan Freeman,  I don’t know if you ever use Diatomaceous Earth with your chickens and therefore have it on hand, but I like to sprinkle it on top of potting soil and mix a bit of it in when I have plants inside.  I do it when the soil is on the dry side.  I think it helps keep the fungus gnat population down, but I also use the yellow sticky traps once I do start to see them.  (I don’t sprinkle diatomaceous earth inside, by the way.  I move the plants outside and let the dust settle before I move them inside.  I don’t have so many pots as you do inside, though.)

I appreciated your update today.  Thanks for the photos.  Your tomatoes are looking great.


----------



## Dan Freeman

DG...come to think of it, I do have a bag of Diatomaceous Earth out in the shed. Only problem with it is it has to be reapplied after watering, and with growing the tomatoes in the house, they have to be watered almost every day. I guess I could water from the bottom, though.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

Dan Freeman said:


> DG...come to think of it, I do have a bag of Diatomaceous Earth out in the shed. Only problem with it is it has to be reapplied after watering, and with growing the tomatoes in the house, they have to be watered almost every day. I guess I could water from the bottom, though.


Yes, you do have to avoid watering it from the surface when you’ve put it on.  I used my upsidedown bottles with watering stakes to get water down below, but again I only keep a few things inside long-term.

My outside garden still has plants growing in it, albeit pretty slowly.  Here’s a photo of what I’ve harvested today and yesterday, I think: cherry tomatoes, shishito peppers, green beans, snow peas, zucchini, and a little immature Seminole Pumpkin.  Since there isn’t enough of anything to make a dish on its own, I may just sauté the vegetables together for a dish.



Here are some other shots I took in the garden this morning.

I have a couple of broccoli heads starting to form.  I’ve been having to hunt down cabbage worms because it’s been warm enough here for the moths still to fly.  I also added a bunch of compost to this pot of leeks, though I did it right after I took the picture, so the picture still shows my basil leaf mulch.




I have young Beaver Dam Peppers on both of the plants that I cut back so drastically a while back.  We do have some cold weather moving in next week.  It shouldn’t kill the plants, but it won’t help them mature any fruit, I’m sure.  Here is a shot of the Taiga tomato plants I’ve been trialing this year.  They have been loving our warm (but not hot) and more humid weather this December.  (It’s really weird December weather even for this far south, by the way, but the plants seem to like it.)





Finally, here’s a shot of a planter where I transplanted an artichoke and a Victoria Rhubarb plant somewhat recently.  @begreen, we do use sugar on our rhubarb but far less than called for in standard recipes.  We love tang in our foods, though, and the sourness doesn’t bother us.  I’m surprised you don’t enjoy it since you do enjoy sauerkraut and fermented foods.  It is a different acid, but you seem to like sour.  I wonder if you would like it better with less sugar rather than more.


----------



## Dan Freeman

So nice to see you are still harvesting. I just took a walk around our FF. I hadn't been down there in about a week. Everything is dead...except for the fish at the bottom of the pond. It's sunny and 40 today. I would love to be out there moving some soil and topping off some of the raised beds, but I am afraid of straining my ribs, so I am here instead watching YouTube gardening videos and checking my forums!


----------



## Dan Freeman

The food forest is officially asleep for the season.


----------



## clancey

Very pretty picture and you accomplished a whole lot----with my kind of energy --too much...lol..Now enjoy inside work and get your ribs well again..The Forest Garden is very beautiful and have some Happy Holidays..Thanks for sharing...clancey


----------



## Dan Freeman

I like the picture, too. That is why I posted it. Took it with my phone shortly after waking up this morning. Ribs are doing so much better. Still some aching, but it diminishes week by week. Tomorrow will be 9 weeks since the accident. Merry Christmas to you, Clancey!


----------



## EatenByLimestone

You should be getting close to healed!


----------



## DuaeGuttae

@Dan Freeman, beautiful picture.  Thanks for posting it.  I think you’re wise not to overdo things this winter so that you’ll be all healed up in time for spring (and the run up thereunto).

We don’t have any snow in the forecast, but I did see one prediction for temperatures below freezing by the end of the month.  If we get closer to the time, and it looks pretty certain, I’ll pick what green fruit I can.  Last year I took out all my tomatoes in November and regretted not leaving some plants when we had a warm December.  This year seems to be following the same pattern so far.   We did have a hard freeze just at the New Year last year.


----------



## Dan Freeman

First of the indoor Tiny Tim's to begin ripening.


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## EatenByLimestone

I’m jealous!   You might have Christmas tomatoes!   When did you plant them?


----------



## Dan Freeman

EatenByLimestone said:


> I’m jealous!   You might have Christmas tomatoes!   When did you plant them?


Don't worry, these were as green as the others 2 days ago. Once they begin to turn, they turn fast.

These seeds were planted right at the beginning of October, so it has been about 75 days which is actually late.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

I think my first batch was pretty close to that.   Hopefully they will be red soon!


----------



## DuaeGuttae

I’m hoping I’ll have some ripe tomatoes for Christmas, too, but not from my Aerogarden.  The weather is changing to winter finally in Texas.  We‘re forecast for refrigerator temperatures at night for the next few days, and next week we may seem some real freezes.  For that reason, I did a bunch of harvesting of well sized tomatoes and a few other things.






We ate the kale sautéed along with our leftover corned beef and potatoes for supper tonight.  Some of the reddish tomatoes (hiding under the kale, I think) went to the counter, but the big box of less ripe tomatoes went to a shelf in the pantry to ripen. 

I think there are six varieties in the box: Captain Lucky, Maglia Rosa, Blush 2.0, Riesentraube, Taiga, and an unknown red cherry that volunteered last winter.  By far the bulk of the tomatoes are Blush 2.0, an elongated cherry or saladette type, that should ripen to yellow with red stripes; and Taiga, a green when ripe, heart-shaped tomato.  The close-up is a smaller Taiga that is nevertheless showing a bit of color change.  I actually left a good number of tomatoes on the vines as I was concentrating on picking the larger, more mature ones today.

I also grabbed a few peppers: a green Beaver Dam, some purple jalapenos, and some shishitos.

The ugly looking things on the left are my drying luffas that will be peeled and seeded and used as sponges.   I have six more out on the vines that aren’t drying down yet.  I don’t know how they’ll like refrigerator temperatures, but I left them to see how they do.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

We had kale tonight too!    I can’t imagine there’s much left out there.   It can’t be growing much with our nights in the 20s.    There’s probably only bok choy left.


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## EatenByLimestone

Look what I found!


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## Dan Freeman




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## Dan Freeman

Made a nice score at Home Depot this morning. I went there to buy plastic pot saucers for my indoor garden. With the outbreak of fungus gnats, I decided to start watering from the bottom and keep the top of the soil dryer. I didn't want to put a ton of water in the greenhouse trays I am using, so I decided to get individual saucers for each plant. I only needed 18 and planned to get the real cheapies at $0.98 each. Of course, they didn't have 10 of one of the sizes I needed, even though they showed 26 of them on their online inventory, so a worker gave me 10 of the $3.48 ones (sturdier) and discounted them to 0.98 each. I saved $25 and got studier dishes. I guess it helped that it was the same worker who had to apologize to me last week when they were out of another item I wanted, and it was showing in stock. I think he felt bad.


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## EatenByLimestone

Seeet!  It’s always nice to get customer appreciation!


----------



## begreen

DG - Not a bad harvest considering it's December. You might want to try pickling some of the green tomatoes. I just ate the last of our batch and they came out pretty good. Our greenhouse early girl died but still has many pink tomatoes on it that we will ripen indoors. We still have many peppers left to process but they are keeping well in the cool greenhouse. All that is left in there now are our citruses and some overwintering pepper plants in pots. 

I've moved all of our greenhouse lettuce plants indoors and under lights. I use veggie trays that come from the grocery store as water trays. The iDoo experiment was kind of a flop for the tomatoes. One got so large it toppled. The problem with these systems is that there is no way to stake plants. I extricated the largest tomato and potted it a few days ago. So far it appears none the worse for wear. No tomatoes dropped, though I did prune it a bit.  I am going to harvest the iDoo lettuce and transfer the other Tiny Tim to a pot, then clean the iDoo .  I will replant it with basil and lettuce only.





There is a lower and upper LED light bar above the plants. The low one is for the lettuce and the high one is for the tomatoes. They get 16 hrs of light a day.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Sorry to hear the tomatoes didn’t work out BG!  Basil and lettuce grow well in them too!   

It seems weird to leave plants in them so long.   Before the tomatoes I cycled them through growing plantlets. 

The second batch of TTs has way more tomatoes on it.  I guess I needed practice self pollinating.  

I wonder if you’d physically get more produce growing leafy stuff.  You’d be able to keep everything low enough so the lights wouldn’t get clogged out.


----------



## begreen

Our lettuce and basil in the iDoo did well until the tomatoes crowded them out. We got a few pickings. I still have a largish romaine hanging off the backside that I will harvest today. The main issue besides the tomatoes getting too large is that they can't be staked. The transplants in the pots now are firmly staked. It's all a learning experience so I don't mind.


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## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> Our lettuce and basil in the iDoo did well until the tomatoes crowded them out. We got a few pickings. I still have a largish romaine hanging off the backside that I will harvest today. The main issue besides the tomatoes getting too large is that they can't be staked. The transplants in the pots now are firmly staked. It's all a learning experience so I don't mind.


Any chance of a photo of the lettuce before you harvest it or at least before you eat it?  I’m curious about a Romaine  in a hydroponic system.

Did you take any steps to strengthen the stems of the indoor vegetables?  I have at times used a light fan  blowing on them, but usually I don’t set such a thing up.  I just blow on them when I look at them (that’s often how I pollinate, too, for indoor tomatoes), or I rub my hand lightly on the top of the foliage.  I find I get pretty sturdy stems, but I am growing a different variety as well.  I know that plants outdoors build thicker stems in response to breezes and wind, so I try to give my indoor plants a bit of that treatment.

I pruned my tomatoes pretty drastically a while back, and immediately after that some of the leaves started showing what looked like it could have been fertilizer burn.  I hadn’t overfed them to my knowledge.  If anything, I had underfed them, I think.  They’ve grown new healthy foliage, and I’ve clipped off the stuff that wasn’t looking so good.  I have green tomatoes on them, but I‘m definitely not (at the moment) having a problem with them growing out of their Aerogarden.

The jalapeno I planted was a different story.  I pruned it just a couple of days ago because it was growing up into the lighthood.  (Both my light hoods are 11 inches at maximum height, by the way.  The machines themselves are different heights, so one fits under my cabinets at maximum extension and the other doesn’t, but the distance between the plants and the lights is the same.). I decided to cut it way back again today to encourage even more branching at the bottom.  It means that I cut off the flowers, but I expect it will make more.  I wonder if it’s growing so well because there is no second large plant in that machine.  (I have some tiny lettuce seedlings, but they don’t really count as competition right now.)


----------



## EatenByLimestone

How do you pollinate jalapeños?   Can you do them by hand like tomatoes?    Are there dwarf varieties?


----------



## DuaeGuttae

EatenByLimestone said:


> How do you pollinate jalapeños?   Can you do them by hand like tomatoes?    Are there dwarf varieties?


Yes, you can pollinate just like tomatoes.  In the garden I tend to help things along by tapping on my trellises or the stems, though I think we get enough wind and insect activity here.  Inside I either flick the flowers gently or just blow a sustained breath several times on different parts of the plant.

I don’t know if there is a special dwarf variety.  The one I’m growing was in an Aerogarden kit that my daughter (the original recipient of the Aerogarden) received as a gift.  This was was not acting dwarf-like, and if it grows back just as high, I may have to remove it from the Aerogarden to a pot.  In order to give it light, though, I’d have to clear off my plant cart, and I’m not sure I want to move my more cold sensitive things to the garage, so who knows.  I may just keep pruning and hope for some low-hanging fruit.

@begreen, I forgot to ask, How do you pickle green tomatoes?  I still have a bunch on the vines.


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## begreen

Quick Pickled Green Tomatoes
					

The best way to preserve green tomatoes? Pickles! These pickled green tomatoes are the perfect condiment: tangy, salty, and 100% delicious.




					www.acouplecooks.com


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## Dan Freeman

Any day now...




Just purchased two apple trees (Liberty and Freedom) and 3 boysenberry bushes from Stark Brothers. They won't arrive until April and up the trees, bushes and vines to 48.


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## EatenByLimestone

I’ve thought of trying apples again.   Of the 3 I  planted, I only have 1 dwarf rootstock left.      If I get more, I’m going to graft the heck out of it!   Lol


----------



## begreen

My wife is saying - no more apples! so I am going to try grafting this year. We have a William's Pride that Raintree sent us by mistake. It was supposed to be a Spartan. It's vigorous and prolific, but the apples come in August and we are not ready for them. They're fine fresh, but poor keepers.  I am going to attempt to graft some of our nice varieties onto it.


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## EatenByLimestone

Frankentrees are awesome!


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## Dan Freeman

While Liberty and Freedom look good, they would not have necessarily been my first choice. My Honeycrisp and Granny Smith (bought together because they are preferred cross-pollinators) have shown signs of Apple Cedar Rust in their 2nd year. Other than treating with a chemical fungicide (perhaps an organic one but to a much less success rate), the only alternative is to cut down all cedar trees within a 3-mile radius. I don't think my neighbors would approve.  So, I looked up apple cedar rust and which trees are very resistant, and there were a number of them, but then I had to match two that bloom at the same time so they would cross pollinate (a must). (There are 3 different bloom times in the Spring for apple trees depending on the variety, and if you don't have at least 2 trees that bloom at the same time, your apple harvest will be extremely poor or non-existent.) The best match I could find for my needs, and were available for purchase, were the Liberty and the Freedom.


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## EatenByLimestone

The neighbors might have crab apples.   Still the Malus genus.   They’ll work too.


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## Dan Freeman

EatenByLimestone said:


> The neighbors might have crab apples.   Still the Malus genus.   They’ll work too.


I have a crabapple (not sure if it blooms the same time), but it is at least 150 feet from my regular apple trees. When trees are young and just beginning to bloom, 50 feet is considered the maxim distance. As they grow older, larger and have many more blooms, within 50 feet is not as critical, but then it's a little late to move them, huh?


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## EatenByLimestone

I think the only solution is to plant more trees


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## Dan Freeman

EatenByLimestone said:


> I think the only solution is to plant more trees



Oh yes, and since I have no life except my home business and garden now that I am retired, I will definitely be expanding in plants, and maybe area. My garden is my favorite activity.

One of my favorite quotes:
_“The one who plants trees, knowing that he will never sit in their shade, has at least started to understand the meaning of life.” (Rabindranath Tagore)_


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## EatenByLimestone

You can probably plant all sorts of stuff outside the fenced in area.   You can pretty much make up your own rules, lol.    I used to use my peach tree as a trellis.   It was fun seeing them hang off the branches.


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## begreen

Harvest day for our first January King cabbage. I am going to make some borscht today with it. This one is about 7" across. They sweeten up nicely with the cold weather and will go through 20º freezes. 



The others, like this one, are still developing.


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## Dan Freeman

EatenByLimestone said:


> You can probably plant all sorts of stuff outside the fenced in area.   You can pretty much make up your own rules, lol.    I used to use my peach tree as a trellis.   It was fun seeing them hang off the branches.


I guess at this point I can, Matt.


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## clancey

I don't like purple cabbage because it turns the water in boiling it too much of a color for me.. lol      I  love regular cabbage and put lots of vinegar on it and I always boil cabbage for I like it better that way. clancey


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## DuaeGuttae

Beautiful cabbage, @begreen.  I really love borsch, though I don’t tend to make it that often.  Where’s the photo of your beets?

Yesterday my husband and I both worked in the garden.  I filled ollas and did some surface watering of crops while he cut out tomatoes, peppers, basil, and bush beans.  We had a light freeze last night, but we’re due for very hard freezes late in the week, so we figured we’d compost the heat lovers while they were still green instead of waiting for them to die.  

In the next couple of days,  I’m going to be digging out support structure materials and frost cloth and protecting the citrus as I can.  I’ll be watching the forecast to see if I need to be concerned about my olives or pomegranates.  Thankfully this does not look to such sustained cold as February 2021, but I think I’ll make efforts to protect what I can.  We’ve got a couple nights forecast for the mid teens.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Mid teens... I dont think I ever saw that when I lived in TX!    I dont think I've seen it this year in NY!


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## EatenByLimestone

I got to thinking about the weather... I knew up north had been close to zero.   Our weather must have been cold.  I checked accuweather and sure enough, last week we went below 20 3 days.   No idea where I was.    I'm such an air head sometimes.


----------



## clancey

lol With all the cold air coming we will all be "air heads"....hope it isn't too bad...clancey


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## begreen

No beet pics DG, they came from the store. 
The country is getting hit hard with a polar push all the way from Siberia. We're on the edge, but have dropped 8 degrees in a few hours. I shut the water off to the greenhouse today. Hunkering down.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

@EatenByLimestone , you really did make me laugh by calling yourself an “airhead.”  I can’t say I’d ever thought of you that way.

@begreen, how cold are you supposed to get?  Are you expecting snow?

Our latest forecast has dropped us down to 10 degrees for the one night this week.  That may be more than my frost cloth can protect from, but I’ll give it my best shot.  We were actually blessed by some rain in the early morning hours today (an absolutely wonderful sound to wake up in the dark to the spatter of rain drops!), so that should help a bit.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

DuaeGuttae said:


> @EatenByLimestone , you really did make me laugh by calling yourself an “airhead.”  I can’t say I’d ever thought of you that way.
> 
> 
> So today I already had an airhead moment.  My aunt had a broken chair and I was in the area so I called her up and asked if she’d be home a bit because I could stop by and fix her chair.  She gave me the go ahead to come over so I started that way.


I passed the car wash and figured I’d stop in and give her a few more minutes to get ready before I arrived.  We’ll, after the car wash I proceeded to drive home.

Once I got home I realized what I’d done and drove back.    I added a half hour to the job, lol.  

The chair is now fixed.  I’ll have somewhere to sit on Christmas, lol


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Going to try a new variety tonight!


So, funny story about that orchard:

I once walked in to their orchard stand with my Grandma as we used to buy half bushels of utility apples.   We walked up to the counter and checked out with the old lady there.  

As we walked away, my Grandma says, “She doesn’t like me.”

I’m like”Huh?  Why?”  I’m thinking, why wouldn’t everybody like my Grandma?

“Because I stole her boyfriend.”

I had to laugh.   Who knows if the orchard lady ever forgave my Grandma.   Both ladies were well into their 80s.

This orchard also has a small section of old, probably nearly extinct varieties they keep going.

I hope they can keep the developers far away.  We’ve lost enough orchards to houses and strip malls.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

We tried snapdragon pretty recently.  It was fairly good, though perhaps didn’t keep its texture too well after a few days, if I’m remembering the right apple.  Ours were grocery store apples, though, not from an orchard.

I took a couple of pictures of my Aerogarden plants yesterday or the day before.   My first tomato started to blush pretty recently.   You can see that my heavily pruned tomato plants are still small.  The pepper that I’ve pruned so heavily is going  to bush out.  I think its stem is already as thick as my pointer finger.


----------



## begreen

DuaeGuttae said:


> @begreen, how cold are you supposed to get? Are you expecting snow?


We have been right on the borderline for snow today. Here we just have about 1/2" of slush, but in town maybe 1". Just 10 miles away they got up to 6" and if you live 30 miles to the north and at elevation above 2000', 10" or more. Up to 3 ft of snow is expected in the mountains.
It's at 31F here right now. The predicted low over the next two days is 18º and much colder to the north of us. The big concern is Friday which could have a period of freezing rain. We're hoping it's short and does not turn into a damaging ice storm. By Christmas eve we are supposed to be up in the mid 40s.

I harvested a big bowlful of lettuce yesterday from the iDoo and the pots under lights. I should have taken a picture. There is enough for several salads.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

how did the lettuce taste?   Was it as good as soil grown?


----------



## EatenByLimestone

We ate the first Tiny Tim last night!   It went on some tacos along with some San Marzanos that had been ripening on the table.   It was great having fresh tomatoes!   Now if only the others would get on with ripening!


----------



## Dan Freeman

We are having our first Tiny Tim's tonight. I almost picked them yesterday, but they are best when brightest red, and the grow lights I have make them look redder than they are.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

That lettuce sounds good, @begreen.   I love a good salad.  How was the texture?

I ate my one red Aerogarden tomato yesterday.  It was pretty tasty actually, better than I was expecting.   I could have let it ripen more, I’m sure, but I tend to be happier with a slightly underripe tomato rather than a slightly overripe one, so I start testing early to see where my best flavor and texture lie.


----------



## Dan Freeman

DuaeGuttae said:


> That lettuce sounds good, @begreen.   I love a good salad.  How was the texture?
> 
> I ate my one red Aerogarden tomato yesterday.  It was pretty tasty actually, better than I was expecting.   I could have let it ripen more, I’m sure, but I tend to be happier with a slightly underripe tomato rather than a slightly overripe one, so I start testing early to see where my best flavor and texture lie.


Congrats on the first tomato.  Looks like harvest season is upon us as a few of us are seeing red.


----------



## begreen

EatenByLimestone said:


> Mid teens... I dont think I ever saw that when I lived in TX!    I dont think I've seen it this year in NY!


You will shortly. NYC is forecast to go from 54º to 12º tomorrow.


----------



## begreen

DuaeGuttae said:


> That lettuce sounds good, @begreen. I love a good salad. How was the texture?


Excellent. The fan on the iDoo seems to help. I have a small 6" fan blowing across the plants in pots. It makes a nice difference. The leaves have much more structure, not wimpy.



EatenByLimestone said:


> how did the lettuce taste?   Was it as good as soil grown?


Yes, the taste was good, so was the texture. And no cleaning needed. No slugs either.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

I'm imagining sad faced slugs at the window peering in at the idoo.


----------



## Dan Freeman

Was looking for something to do today with the bad weather and all, so I put this Christmas Video Card 2022 together from some photos I took the other day. To the friends I am making on Hearth.com, especially here in the Garden Forum, my wish for all of you is to have a very Merry Christmas! May your spirit be enlivened again.


----------



## clancey

Pretty..Thanks - Happy Holidays and Merry Christmas to you and everyone as well..clancey


----------



## begreen

This is the last of our greenhouse Early Girls. There were more green tomatoes on the plant but it was getting attacked by mildew so I pulled it. The late tomatoes are smaller, but also sweeter and more flavorful.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

They're beautiful!


----------



## DuaeGuttae

Those tomatoes do look great, @begreen.  A couple of those diced up would be a perfect topping for your indoor lettuce salads.  I’m glad the texture was good.  I agree that a little air movement does wonders in improving the crunch.

Just yesterday my kids made some salsa from some of my tomatoes that I picked green that have been ripening indoors.  It was an assortment of cherry varieties and a couple of Taigas.  They had good flavor.

Thanks for the “Christmas Card,” @Dan Freeman.

Merry Christmas to all my gardening friends here on the forum.


----------



## Dan Freeman

Forgot to post these pics. They are from Christmas Eve. (Not sure why the light makes the color look a bit distorted...combination of grow lights/real sunlight.)


----------



## EatenByLimestone

My 1st and second batches are starting to ripen a bit.      Only had the single ripe one.


----------



## Dan Freeman

You should be getting them real soon, then. Do not be tempted to pick them a bit early. Wait until they are a full, deep red. Even a little early, and they have a more-sour taste than sweet. I just picked another 8. I'll snack on them later.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

I wonder if my root and foliage trim set them back.    

I just ran out of the Aerogarden fertilizer,so will be starting the other fertilizer I bought soon.


----------



## Dan Freeman

EatenByLimestone said:


> I wonder if my root and foliage trim set them back.



Hard to say, but usually a foliage trim in a traditional gardening setting stimulates growth. As far as the roots, well can't trim them in a traditional setting, so can't compare there.


----------



## begreen

They look great Dan. Our transplanted TTims are doing well. There wasn't any noticeable shock, but growth slowed down for about a week. Now they are back to adding height and setting more fruit. They look bigger than your plants. I may have to start trimmng them more aggressively.  I got mine started late (10/22) so it will be a few more weeks before we're harvesting. The lettuce is growing strong. I'll be doing another harvest tomorrow. The replanted seeds in the iDoo have sprouted, so there will be another crop following. This time it's just lettuce and 2 basil plants.


----------



## Dan Freeman

Glad to hear the transplanted TT's are doing well.  Mine were larger last year. I think it may be the potting soil. I always mixed my own potting soil the last few years. I knew exactly what was in it. This year I purchased potting soil. In addition to being overrun with the fungus gnats, I can already tell this year's plants will not produce like last year's. Last year I had 8 plants with two distinct fruit-setting periods. (The first is always more abundant than the 2nd.) I harvested over 900 tomatoes. This year, I am on my first fruit setting, and the most I see on any plant is 30ish tomatoes.  I'm predicting a max of 500 tomatoes this year from 8 plants, and it may wind up being only about 400 when the story is told. The potting soil is the only change. Lighting, heat, watering, etc. are the same. Nest year, I'll go back to my home brew.


----------



## begreen

I blended 2 different potting soils and fertilized them with Tomato-tone added to each pot. We'll see how it works out. It's all an experiment for me. First-time indoor veggie growing. You have been the inspiration that got me to try it out. So far, no fungus gnats I'm glad to say. I have yellow stickies up just in case.


----------



## Dan Freeman

I'm glad I was able to get you started with the tomatoes!


----------



## Dan Freeman

Thought I would give a fungus gnat update.

I was hopeful about the Mosquito Bits, but I'm not sure they are working. As directed, I soaked 4 tablespoons in a gallon of water and watered my plants on Dec 17 and 24. The BTI in the MB's are supposed to kill the larvae before they can develop into flying adults. Since adults only live for about 8 days, I expected to see improvement within a few days with less and less flying adults each day.

This has not been the case. If anything, the flying population is the same or has slightly increased. I can't believe how fast the yellow sticky traps fill up with hundreds, of fungus gnats, and they only trap a small percentage. The trays around the plants and the floor around the plant rack have 100's of dead fungus gnats that I vacuum up each day. I also am finding 20-40 dead fungus gnats under the light on my desk in the next room twice a day. I am finding fungus gnats in just about every room in the house, now.

I have decided to water a third time this coming Saturday with MB's as they recommend watering once a week for 3 weeks, but I am not hopeful based on the life span of an adult fungus gnat and the results so far. We'll see...

If they are still this bad in about a week, I think I am going to dispose of all my indoor veggies for this season. Next season, I'll go back to mixing my own potting soil and not buy a premade mix. With the same temperatures, lighting, and watering schedule, the only change I made this year is using a commercial potting soil from Home Depot, and I think that has been the problem.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

I wonder if a box fan with sticky traps or a tight screen on the exhaust side would pull them out of the air.


----------



## Dan Freeman

I picked another 8 tomatoes yesterday, but the fungus gnats continue...

So, I decided to add another method of attack on the fungus gnats in addition to the sticky traps and Mosquito Bits yesterday.

I hadn't watered the plants since watering with the mosquito bits last Saturday, and they needed watering. I made up a 4 parts water to 1 part hydrogen peroxide mixture and watered the plants until it began to run out the bottom.

Hydrogen peroxide supposedly kills the eggs and larvae on contact, but it needs to be used on a regular basis since it only lasts a while and breaks down into oxygen and water.

Going to continue with the Bits and the Peroxide as a last resort. The next treatment will be Saturday. If I don't see a marked improvement within 7 days, I am going to dump the plants (which I don't want to do) and start fresh.


----------



## Dan Freeman

Anytime we have used an electric tool or piece of equipment down in the food forest, we have had to run anywhere from 150-200 feet of extension cord from one of our sheds. Not an ideal situation. Now that we have electricity down to the food forest pond, I don't have to, but there is another 50 feet or so within the food forest from the pond outlet to the edges of the food forest and at least another 150 feet from the pond to the back of the cleared area of the field.

I have always wanted to get a small Honda 2200-watt quiet generator for when I have to run electric tools or equipment out on the property but couldn't justify the $1200 price tag. Yesterday, I read in another forum that Harbor Freight was running a 20% off end of year sale on all their generators. I was able to pick up a 2000-Watt Super Quiet Inverter Generator for $495.99 (down from $619.99).




Before Harbor Freight opened near me, I always thought of them as a cheap tool store and was wary of their products. However, I bought our electric splitter from them 2 years ago, and it has worked flawlessly. I have also purchased a few other less expensive tools that I have been satisfied with. Hopefully, this inexpensive generator (compared to Honda) will be a positive experience, too. Out of 30 reviews, it received 4.8 stars out of 5 and 97% would recommend it.


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## EatenByLimestone

The warm weather might be enough to move the tomatoes outside for a bit and break the gnat lifecycle?


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## EatenByLimestone

Harbor Freight has come a long way.    My overhead door business  probably has 95% of its tools from HF.    My guys will lose them over time, if they don’t get broken.  I’d rather not have to replace expensive tools.


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## Dan Freeman

EatenByLimestone said:


> The warm weather might be enough to move the tomatoes outside for a bit and break the gnat lifecycle?


It's only supposed to hit mid 40's here and that's in the midafternoon. It wouldn't break the cycle. The eggs/larvae are in the soil for 2 weeks before they hatch. I'm trying to rid them at that level.

Yeah. I've talked with a neighbor who says HF has improved with their products over the years.


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## begreen

HF has improved over the years and has some decent products, but I am not very fond of their hand tools. Most are good for the weekend warrior that may use them once or twice a year, but they are often substandard and degrade with use. This leads to stripped screw heads, rounded bolt corners, etc. I help repair things for our local tool library and the HF compressors are junk compared to a decent Senco or Porter.


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## EatenByLimestone

most of the stuff I’ve purchased from HF has been wrenches, sockets, pliers, and stuff like that.   

I did buy an oil less pancake compressor that failed.   I replaced it with an oil lubed one that is going strong still.    I don’t do much with the air compressor.  I’ve never used their power tools.    When I was buying those tools, HF wasn’t around, or I was buying vintage.


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## begreen

Yes, it was two small pancake compressors that I worked on. They are not made well. The Sencos last hundreds of hours longer and are easy to rebuild with parts readily available.


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## Dan Freeman

SeedsNow.com is having a $10 off and free shipping sale until midnight tonight. The reward code is *CP36HK8*. I have used SeedsNow before and have always found their seeds good.

You can also get a 175-page free ebook:_ Organic Gardening Grow Guides_








						*FREE* ORGANIC GARDENING eBOOK + ALL GROW GUIDES
					

We want everyone to be successful at growing their own organic garden.  That's why we've created this eBook and that's why we are giving it away - for free.  This eBook includes everything you ever wanted to know about growing your own food - and more! NOTE:  The download link will be sent via...




					seedsnow.myshopify.com
				




I just picked up 10 packets, like I need more seeds, but want to try a few things I haven't tried in the past. (Only $19.40 after $10 off...and free shipping)

Kale - Classic, Blue Curled Scotch (New)
Kale - Premier (New)
Squash (Summer) - Black Beauty Zucchini (Haven't grown in 3-4 years)
Cabbage - All Season (A new variety for me)
Spinach - Bloomsdale (My seeds are getting old)
Swiss Chard - Rainbow Mix (New)
Beet - Early Wonder (Grew "Detroit" this year-this is a new variety for me)
Carrot - Tendersweet (A new variety for me)
Cucumber - Space Master (A new variety for me)
Pea - Wando (A new variety for me)


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