# Pellets sticking to hopper



## GrahamInVa (Oct 30, 2011)

I just came home to a cold house.  >:-( 

There were plenty of pellets in the hopper but they aren't sliding down. 

Any ideas on what to do? 

I should have taken a picture before I pushed them down.


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## Gabe (Oct 30, 2011)

Hello Try Pam cooking spray also what kind of pellets are you burning?


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## DexterDay (Oct 30, 2011)

I polish it with furniture polish. Other people use car wax. Couple other things, but cant think of right now (Sat night/thirsty)


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## GrahamInVa (Oct 30, 2011)

Gabe said:
			
		

> Hello Try Pam cooking spray also what kind of pellets are you burning?



Thanks.. I'll try that.

Currently I am burning Big Heat. But I have 11 different brands I am testing. I have had the same issue with the other brands as well.


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## ifixmy2 (Oct 30, 2011)

2 things that has helped me.
One was to put alum tape on all the seams in the hopper.
I just put in over top of siliconed cracks
Second thing was to purchase some dry graphite and squirt it in the hopper
and the auger tubes, when I did teardown.  Seems to help and no difference
noticed when burned with pellets.


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## Xena (Oct 30, 2011)

I second the dry graphite. I use the fine
stuff and spread it all over the inside of the hopper.
A little goes a long way ya don't really need much.
Works a treat.


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## kykel (Oct 30, 2011)

its not so much that they stick but more like the stack on top of one another, If the bottom ones dont get pulled into the auger they will hold the ones above from sliding down. seems to be a common problem. Im on my second stove and it seems to be the same only this design gets most of the pellets before that happens.


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## Panhandler (Oct 30, 2011)

Xena said:
			
		

> I second the dry graphite. I use the fine
> stuff and spread it all over the inside of the hopper.
> A little goes a long way ya don't really need much.
> Works a treat.



The graphite is available in spray can. Much easier to use and to get it where you want.


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## GrahamInVa (Oct 30, 2011)

I emptied and cleaned the hopper real good this afternoon. Took a piece of 300 grit sandpaper and smoothed it up a bit and then coated it real good with spray dry graphite.

Well see how that works.


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## Don2222 (Oct 30, 2011)

GrahamInVa said:
			
		

> I just came home to a cold house.  >:-(
> 
> There were plenty of pellets in the hopper but they aren't sliding down.
> 
> ...



Englander Tech Support and Julie Andrews always say:

Just a spoonful of powdered graphite helps the pellets go down, helps the pellets go down... In the most delightful way... hmhmhmhm..


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## imacman (Oct 31, 2011)

GrahamInVa said:
			
		

> I emptied and cleaned the hopper real good this afternoon. Took a piece of 300 grit sandpaper and smoothed it up a bit and then coated it real good with spray dry graphite.
> 
> Well see how that works.



If that doesn't work well, try spray furniture polish....I used Behold, and it really helped.  Apply it just like on furniture....spray on, and polish with a rag until smooth.


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## Xena (Oct 31, 2011)

Panhandler said:
			
		

> The graphite is available in spray can. Much easier to use and to get it where you want.



I'm sure but I used what I had in the garage.  ;-)


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## exoilburner (Oct 31, 2011)

How long are your longest pellets?  Should not be over 1.5 inches.  In mine anything much longer causes pellet jams in the hopper and stove shut down once in a while.  Never have a problem with shorter pellets.


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## timjk69 (Oct 31, 2011)

I waxed the bottom of my hopper with with furniture paste wax about 3 years ago. Made those pellets slip and slide! It's due for another coat now, but still better than before.


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## GrahamInVa (Nov 2, 2011)

I came home again yesterday to my stove off again.  >:-( 

This is what the hopper looked like.











I hit the ON button and it started right back up again and ran fine.

So, i'm a little confused. This is the second time it has done it and both times the pellets were low but still seemed there was enough?


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## kofkorn (Nov 2, 2011)

That doesn't appear to be a problem with the pellets sliding.  That looks more like you are getting some bridging.  Long pellets are locking together, preventing other pellets from dropping into the auger.   Your pellets don't look to be too long from what I can see though.

Try this.  With the power off, use a small screwdriver and just slowly push it down to the area where the pellets feed into the auger.  Listen very carefully when you do this.  If the pellets are bridged, you will probably hear them release and fall into the auger.  

As to a resolution, I hope that you don't have a whole lot of that particular brand of pellets, as they are likely to be an issue.  Maybe you can trade with someone who has a different brand??

Good Luck!


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## exoilburner (Nov 2, 2011)

kofkorn said:
			
		

> That doesn't appear to be a problem with the pellets sliding.  That looks more like you are getting some bridging.  Long pellets are locking together, preventing other pellets from dropping into the auger.   Your pellets don't look to be too long from what I can see though.
> 
> Try this.  With the power off, use a small screwdriver and just slowly push it down to the area where the pellets feed into the auger.  Listen very carefully when you do this.  If the pellets are bridged, you will probably hear them release and fall into the auger.
> 
> ...



Agree with kofkorn.  This is exactly my experience with pellets that are too long.  If there is a jam, I touch them over the hole and if I quietly listen I can hear them tinkeling down on the slide plate.  hearth.com has a link that explains pellet spec.s at
https://www.hearth.com/what/pellet/pellet1.html

The hearth.com page says:  "Dimensions length (1 1/2" *maximum* and diameter (1/4"or 5/16") to assure" predictable fuel amounts and *to prevent fuel jamming"*


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## kofkorn (Nov 2, 2011)

One other thought:

If you do the test and listen for the falling pellets and don't hear anything, it may be that your original issue with the pellets sticking to the side may still be in effect.  I've seen times where they stick long enough for the stove to stop, and then later some small vibration (walking by, door closing, etc.) shakes them enough to slide back down.  Easy way to determine this would be to try going through a normal start up.  If the pellets start dropping again, then you may need to do some additional work to the hopper.  

I used the aluminum pipe tape inside of my hopper.  I coated the entire inside with it, being careful to minimize any seams and overlaps.  After that, I immediately went from having about 20lbs left in the hopper to having about a handful left.  That was 4 seasons ago, and I have never had an issue since.

Good luck with it!  I'm sure that this forum will get it figured out for you.


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## GrahamInVa (Nov 2, 2011)

Thanks Guys! I'll take a closer look. They didn't seem overly long but I didn't pay too much attention. 

I really would like to be around when it happens to see what code my stove throws. I just assumed it turned off because the exhaust temp dropped too low? (aka empty hopper)


I just pulled this from the englander site. Probably my issue...


E-4:    
This is a "time and temperature" fault code: This code is only found in certain models. Essentially, it is caused when the unit drops a certain amount of temperature in a short amount of time, and its purpose is to take away the possibility of feeding fuel into a smoldering condition after a gap in feeding. 

Common causes for E-4 codes:

1.    Pellets bridging in the hopper: In some cases, pellets can form a self-supporting dome or â€œbridgeâ€ over the feed auger in the bottom of the hopper. When this happens, the feed auger empties out beneath the bridge and a gap in feeding occurs. This bridge will normally collapse under its own weight (along with natural vibrations from the unit) and feeding will resume. If the gap in feeding is long enough, the resulting loss of fuel and the dying fire can cause an E-4 code. Longer pellets are usually more susceptible to this issue, and excessive pellet dust can also cause this situation.

2.    Stove shutting down from lack of fuel in a cool environment: Stoves such as the utility furnace are often used in shop or basement applications. In these applications, the ambient temperatures may be lower than in a ground-floor house type of application, so in a shutdown from running out of fuel, the E-4 can occur, as the temperature drop is more rapid. This does not denote a â€œfailureâ€ in the unit, but is a common occurrence in cold room shutdowns.

3.    Gaps in feeding due to â€œhot fuelingâ€ or â€œhot cleaningâ€: For pellet units which have hopper lid switches and active door switches - when either is opened, they will stop feeding, and if the gap in feeding is too great then the E-4 "time and temp." error can occur.


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## exoilburner (Nov 2, 2011)

GrahamInVa said:
			
		

> Thanks Guys! I'll take a closer look. They didn't seem overly long but I didn't pay too much attention.



When the long pellets were causing the jamming problem here I found only a few pellets over 1.5 inches.  Most were under 1.5 inches.  The pellet hopper slope must be borderline.


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## MSmith66 (Nov 3, 2011)

GrahamInVa said:
			
		

> I just came home to a cold house.  >:-(
> 
> There were plenty of pellets in the hopper but they aren't sliding down.
> 
> ...



Vac out hopper and rub wax paper on the hopper sides. works great and is cheap.


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## imacman (Nov 3, 2011)

IMO, the pellet bridging might cause your problem, but I doubt it would happen 2 times....the pellets you show in the pic don't seem overly long.

In addition to my suggestion above to spray the surfaces with furniture polish, I have also added aluminum furnace tape in all the corners to help the pellets slide.  I did the furniture polish AFTER applying the tape.


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## DexterDay (Nov 3, 2011)

Im not seeing it. The pellets are feeding. All units do this to some degree. The bridging ...... Maybe? I never liked my Englander design. It has 4 sides. All on the same angle. Makes for even pressure from all angles. Which could very likely stop the flow of pellets (although it has not). My Quad has 3 angles. Front and both sides. Back is flat. Which leaves enough room for pellets to drop straight down into the augers path. When my Quad shuts down. It has about a handful of pellets left in the bottom. But the last 10-15 lbs seem to look like yours until it runs out. But it "runs out" not dies out.

I think more waxing or polishing. Or call Englander. With many stoves in the field. They have dealt with this before. Thats a lot of pellets. Hours worth of pellets. Good luck. I really like the looks of that stove. Looks very similar to my Quad.

How big is the hopper (50-60 lbs)??


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## imacman (Nov 3, 2011)

Believe this or not, a couple years ago, someone on this forum thought of using an old cell phone fastened in the hopper, set to "vibrate only" mode.  The person would call the phone a couple times a day and the vibrations supposedly made the pellets slide down.

And NO, I am NOT searching for that thread, so don't ask!    :lol:


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## GrahamInVa (Nov 3, 2011)

DexterDay said:
			
		

> Im not seeing it. The pellets are feeding. All units do this to some degree. The bridging ...... Maybe? I never liked my Englander design. It has 4 sides. All on the same angle. Makes for even pressure from all angles. Which could very likely stop the flow of pellets (although it has not). My Quad has 3 angles. Front and both sides. Back is flat. Which leaves enough room for pellets to drop straight down into the augers path. When my Quad shuts down. It has about a handful of pellets left in the bottom. But the last 10-15 lbs seem to look like yours until it runs out. But it "runs out" not dies out.
> 
> I think more waxing or polishing. Or call Englander. With many stoves in the field. They have dealt with this before. Thats a lot of pellets. Hours worth of pellets. Good luck. I really like the looks of that stove. Looks very similar to my Quad.
> 
> How big is the hopper (50-60 lbs)??



Yea, I think your right. They are just not sliding down fast enough. I checked last night and they are not too long (green label ligs). I am going to tape the seams and try a little more "waxing". 

The hopper holds 45 lbs. 

That's funny about the vibrating cell phone but I bet it worked. It doesn't take much for them to slide.


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## Cincinnati Kid (Nov 3, 2011)

I've had the same problem with my Harman P-38....pellets bridge in the hopper above the auger and the stove shuts off due to lack of pellets entering the burn pot.  I would stir the pellets in the hopper and would then hear them drop into the auger.  Certain pellets are more succeptable than others.  

I had major issues with Kentucky Kernal's a few years back.  Never had a problem with Somersets.

Also, never had an issue with Harman Insert with bridging , only my P-38.


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## msidor1972 (Nov 3, 2011)

GrahamInVa said:
			
		

> DexterDay said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



GrahamInVa,
   I have the same model as you, and have seen the same problem.   After the flame out, when you restart your stove, how long does it take for the pellets to start sliding down the drop tube into the pot?  If it is indeed a bridge, there should be several minutes that go by before anything falls into the pot or nothing at all, as the auger feed tube should be empty.  If the pellet start immediately, it sounds like its a sticking issue on the side walls of the hopper.  There may be a brief time when there is a void in the feed slot, but then slowly, gravity releases more pellets, but not enough to keep the burn going. The void/s then stops the flame, causing your flame out.  

I use a product called MO-Deck http://www.mowtownusa.com/171.html . Well, I know itâ€™s not designed for the stove, but dries completely and does not leave a film.   It does have a nasty smell to it when you first apply it (also highly flammable), but went away after it dried. You still get a wall affect of pellets "poor hopper design" but the wall of pellets feed/slide right into the auger feed opening without sticking to the sides and getting hung up.


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## smalltown (Nov 3, 2011)

My eye sight may not be the best, but in GrahamInVa's photo it sure looks like a lot of long pellets to me.

Isn't that his problem? Shouldn't he try another brand (hopefully one with better pellet length) to see what happens?


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## mepellet (Nov 3, 2011)

smalltown said:
			
		

> My eye sight may not be the best, but in GrahamInVa's photo it sure looks like alot of long pellets to me.
> 
> Isn't that his problem? Shouldn't he try another brand (hopefully one with better pellet length) to see what happens?



I agree with you that I see some long(ish) pellets in the hopper.  But I am new and have only opened 4 bags so who knows....


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## Cincinnati Kid (Nov 3, 2011)

You will find that pellets can vary in quality,length, etc from pallet to pallet and even bag to bag in some instances.


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## DexterDay (Nov 3, 2011)

When it shuts down.... How long after you re-start it, do pellets start to drop?? This comment was stated above and they may be on to something.

If the stove shut itself down. Then the auger should not ne primed. It may not be fully empty, but for the most part. Not enough pellets to sustain fire. If there is a regular amount of pellets dropping at start io. Then bridging is not the problem. Seems to me, that there is no visual on the auger itself. If I can only see pellets (some may have slid down after the stove shut down/not dismissing bridging pellets) then I am partially led to believe that the stove may have shut down for other reasons.

I know that the 10-CPM and 25-EP have an angled single auger. But it is a Screw and Cylinder style and they do a very good job of busting longer pellets. My Quad has a Spring and only shut down 3 or 4 times with 2"-3"+ pellets (this was more than a ton of them) thats pretty good for a system that is very weak and can be flexed quite a bit.

So a couple bags of pellets that dont seem to exceed 2", with a solid style auger, does not seem like it should pose a problem.

My suggestion is to dump in a bag of Somersets (very short and consistent pellet/normally all under 3/4") this will tell you if its Long Pellets that is shutting the stove down. Or if its the pellets not feeding down the hopper, or if its the pellets having equal forces push from each side (acting as a brake of sorts), or possibly another problem all together..



I would put in your shortest pellet (if any are consistently shorter than Somersets) after giving it another polish/wax job. That would eliminate one cause.


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## tchdngrnby (Nov 4, 2011)

I took some fine grit sand paper and lightly sanded the interior walls of the hopper then sprayed a light coat of silcone based lubricant and wiped it off.  Reapply every so often.  Problem solved.


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## GrahamInVa (Nov 4, 2011)

DexterDay said:
			
		

> When it shuts down.... How long after you re-start it, do pellets start to drop?? This comment was stated above and they may be on to something.
> 
> If the stove shut itself down. Then the auger should not ne primed. It may not be fully empty, but for the most part. Not enough pellets to sustain fire. If there is a regular amount of pellets dropping at start io. Then bridging is not the problem. Seems to me, that there is no visual on the auger itself. If I can only see pellets (some may have slid down after the stove shut down/not dismissing bridging pellets) then I am partially led to believe that the stove may have shut down for other reasons.
> 
> ...





On the restart, the pellets start dropping after the auger turns a couple times. Not long... and there are some pellets in the auger but its not full.

I cleaned the hopper out again tonight and taped the seams and wiped some furniture polish on the sides. I don't feel pellet length is the issue. (see pic)  I could not find any over 1". As for the sumersets, that is what I had in the first time it shut down. Second time was Green Label Liqs.

I need to be here when it does it so I can see and hear what is going on. That's my next step.


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## imacman (Nov 4, 2011)

Those pellets are NOT the cause of your problem....they are fine.

If the tape and furniture polish doesn't help any, I guess it just means keeping the hopper as full as you can, and pushing the pellets toward the middle every once in a while ( I do this also).


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## GrahamInVa (Nov 5, 2011)

I figured out what the issue is. Once the hopper has about 15lbs left the auger isn't dropping as many pellets as it should. About every 2-3 auger turn it will drop a few. But mostly the auger turns and nothing falls. This gets worse and worse as the hopper gets lower. Eventually it detects a large drop in heat and shuts down.

Its a little better since I sanded the hopper walls and applied some furniture polish. 

But it looks like I have to start pushing the pellets toward the middle every so often.


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## GrahamInVa (Nov 5, 2011)

I let my stove run until it cut off due to lack of pellets. This is what was left. It's better, not great...


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## imacman (Nov 6, 2011)

That's not too bad....just fill the hopper each day, and you probably won't have to push them around more than once or twice a day.


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## LRRifleman (Nov 6, 2011)

Hello! Let me wade in here ...

I have a Regency GF55, and (sadly) I am currently burning "Nation's Choice" pellets. I got spoiled with the Lignetics last year, and I am on a learning curve this year. 

In the past week or so, I have awakened to a cold house, or the natural gas forced air heater (NGFAH) running at a low temp. What I have noted, is that the hopper is feeding from the center, and the sides are not "falling in" to fill the depleted area. Combine this with the fact that the pellets do not want to burn well (everything I try to get more than a 3" flame is failing), we (the dealer that sold/installed the stove, Tractor Supply, and I) have concluded there is a higher than normal moisture content in the pellets, and the pellets tend to be bonding together, causing the pellets inability to fall into the depleted area of the hopper. 

Generally, my fix in this situation is to shove my hand into the hopper and "agitate" the pellets into place ... looking to replace these pellets ASAHP!


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## roadking88 (Nov 25, 2011)

i had the same problem with my harman p43....still about 20 bls in the hopper..
put tape and furniture polish to it...
should be good to go now....


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## Como (Nov 29, 2011)

My Stove does the same, plus the Hopper will not actually take 2 bags anyway. So maybe 50lbs before intervention, flip the lid, move the pellets and off it goes.

But I wanted it to burn for 2 days without intervention.


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