# How big is your stove.... really.



## Highbeam (Jul 21, 2010)

I don't know how many of you have actually measured your fireboxes to compare to other stoves or to the specs but I did for the first time last night and was a bit surprised to see that my Hearthstone Heritage which is spec'd out to be 2.3 cubic feet only measures 21" wide, 10" deep, and 12" tall to the center of the sloped roof. That gives me a whopping 1.5 CF of firebox volume. Only 65% of what Hearthstone says it should be. 

What brought this up for me was when Todd measured his new Keystone at somewhere around 1.4CF with a half rack of MGD easily slipped into it. I thought to myself that I couldn't get much more in mine so I checked. 

Perhaps the tiny woodstocks aren't so tiny after all. Perhaps the mainstream brands have been using some trickery to make their stoves appear larger.


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## EatenByLimestone (Jul 21, 2010)

Try measuring with the firebrick out...


Matt


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## Highbeam (Jul 21, 2010)

Done. That's pretty easy, there are no firebricks. The only missing volume would be the area above the baffle which of course is totally useless for loading wood but is where some combustion takes place.


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## quads (Jul 21, 2010)

I have measured my smoke dragon's firebox; 7 cubic feet.


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## thewoodlands (Jul 21, 2010)

Lopi Liberty - 3.1 cubic feet.

zap


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## tutu_sue (Jul 21, 2010)

Hmmm...my Tribute specs say 1.2 cubic foot firebox, yet I'm measuring 16.5" wide, 7.75"deep and 11.5" to the center of the slope, bottom of the air tubes.  I measured the depth from the secondary air riser hardware in the back that sticks out an inch to the inside of the front stones.  If I measure from the front of the doghouse it's 9.375", but I don't utilize that area for wood.  So we're looking at somewhere between .851 or 1.029 cubic feet - disappointing.   Do you think they are measuring without all the framing and EPA hardware?


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## laynes69 (Jul 21, 2010)

I don't have a stove, but a woodfurnace. Its firebox size in the description is 3.5 Cu. Ft. I measured it from firebrick to firebrick and from the center of middle burn tube to the firebrick on the bottom and got 3.3 Cu. Ft. So if the wood is cut shorter than the firebox and isn't stuffed on a full burn then its much less than the firebox size. Is there any easy way to measure split firewood to get an idea on the size of load? I always assumed for me it was 3.5 cf of wood each load. I guess that explains why a cord of wood will last a month or more.


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## fossil (Jul 21, 2010)

I suspect that there's a difference between the physical dimensions of what they choose to consider the firebox and just how much of that volume is actually useable for loading.  Lopi says my Liberty's firebox is 3.1 ft³...well, I don't doubt that it is, the way they measure and advertise it...but when I measure just how much of it is useable to me for loading fuel, I come up with about 2.25 ft³.  My little Century Hearth stove in the shop gives me less than 1 ft³ for useful load capacity.  In any case, the numbers are useful for comparison shopping...bigger is, after all bigger.  Both of my stoves perform quite well for me in their particular applications, so I've no complaints.  Maybe the industry should advertise two numbers...total and useable.  That might be useful to the discriminating informed consumer.  I've never checked, but I'd imagine the same thing holds true for things like cargo capacity of vehicles...they may advertise one number, but you'd be hard pressed to ever fill it to that volume with anything other than expandable foam.    Rick


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## Fsappo (Jul 21, 2010)

Just for kicks I measured one of my favorite heat monsters in my showroom. The Enerzone 3.4.  They advertise a 3.4 cubic foot firebox (obviously) 19.5 deep, x22 wide, x12" tell to the bottom of the lowest burn tube. + 2.98 cubic feet usable.  Still not too shabby.  About 12% less than advertised.


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## Highbeam (Jul 21, 2010)

When I buy a 7.3 liter engine that is 444 cubic inches of displacement and I can find 8 pistons that each displace 55.5 cubic inches. It's a done deal. When I buy a stove with 2.3 cubic feet of firebox volume and I only measure 1.5 I am irritated. It's like buying a V8 and only getting a V5.

If, and this is a big if, all manufacturers make this fake measurement the same way then we can compare apples to apples. Since we don't know how they are coming up with this volume we have bad information that is subject to marketing whims. 

So is there an industry standard method of measuring firebox volume? I would have thought it might be the volume of the firebox but have been proven wrong.  

I have to assume they are considering no secondary air manifold jive and also counting the area above the baffle. So firebox volume actually means the total airspace of the inside of the stove. The cat stoves don't "lose" so much space above the baffle so their usable firebox volumes are actually closer to advertised?


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## Todd (Jul 21, 2010)

Only 1.5 for the Heritage? I often wondered what the real size was, along with the Mansfield. I also remember my old Hearthstone Homestead was way short of the advertised 2cu ft fire box. Maybe some manufactures include space above the baffle as the fire box? 

If I measured my stoves right up to the glass instead of the andirons they would be closer to Woodstocks specs, but you can't get wood around the andirons. I really don't see much difference in usable fire box between the Fireview and Keystone, 1.8 vs 1.4, the Fireview is only an inch longer LxWxH and if you figure on loading recomended 16" splits or even 18" splits they will fit similar sized loads. The max BTU's only a 10,000 difference and the overall weight is only a 40lb difference as well.


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## BrotherBart (Jul 21, 2010)

Mine is four cases big. But I only had three on hand that day. And less the next day.


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## KB007 (Jul 21, 2010)

Our Regency I3100 is ~ 2.6 cuft if I include the space inside the firebrick and 3.4 cuft if I take out the brick.  Seems OK to me...

22W X 17D X 12H with the brick in place, 24.5 X 18.25 X 13.25 with the brick removed.


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## Highbeam (Jul 21, 2010)

KB007 said:
			
		

> Our Regency I3100 is ~ 2.6 cuft if I include the space inside the firebrick and 3.4 cuft if I take out the brick.  Seems OK to me...
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> 22W X 17D X 12H with the brick in place, 24.5 X 18.25 X 13.25 with the brick removed.



Was it supposed to be 3.1 CF?


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## ANeat (Jul 21, 2010)

Highbeam said:
			
		

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 The Regency 3100 spec sheet says 2.9cu ft,   My hampton stove is pretty close to the spec,  


 I can see a minor difference but  Im not sure why the Heritage measures so much smaller.  Tough to tell without looking in there, is there some odd configuration that may be getting missed in the measurement that they include in the cu/ft calculation???


  It would certainly be a good idea to bring a tape measure if youre going stove shopping


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## BrotherBart (Jul 21, 2010)

I measured the 30-NC four years ago when I got it. It is advertised as 3.5CF and measuring the area inside the firebrick is 3.0 and the other .5 is the combustion area between there and the baffle. That is why I always say that it and the PE Summit are the same size firebox. 3.0CF of load area because neither one of them should be loaded higher than the bricks. Yeah, yeah I know most of you guys stuff'em right up against the baffle. It ain't buying you nothin. Been there, tested that. More heat and the same burn times when you give it that combustion space to let it do what it was designed to do.


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## Todd (Jul 22, 2010)

Good point BB. Non cats need that air space above for proper secondary combustion. Nice to have a cat and load my stove right up snug against the baffle. Another thing to consider about fire box size is your going to have an inch or two of ash and coals in there while your burning so subtract a little more for that. I think it's a good idea for people to go measure or even bring in some splits and see how much room is really in there. Some of these little stoves can be a major pain building a fire unless your using 2" splits.


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## Later (Jul 22, 2010)

BrotherBart said:
			
		

> Mine is four cases big. But I only had three on hand that day. And less the next day.



How about measuring it in real beer.


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## BrotherBart (Jul 22, 2010)

Retired Guy said:
			
		

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We do that discussion every year. You drink what you wanna drink and I drink what I like. The only one I liked better was Amstel light. When I was in Holland.

I drink Natural Light, I burn in a steel "big box store" non-cat stove, I have a old Poulan commercial saw and I don't give a flying chit what other people do.  :coolgrin:


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## SolarAndWood (Jul 22, 2010)

My def of real world, I can take it off my wood pile and replicate it in the firebox without sanding dremeling, etc, 15h x 24w x 18d or 3.75 vs 4.3 advertised.  I put 3.75 in every time.


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## wendell (Jul 22, 2010)

Brother Bart, our Natty Light man!


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## BrowningBAR (Jul 22, 2010)

BrotherBart said:
			
		

> I drink Natural Light



I'm sorry to hear that.


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## Todd (Jul 22, 2010)

BrotherBart said:
			
		

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I need to send you some Leinenkugels.


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## rdust (Jul 22, 2010)

BrotherBart said:
			
		

> Mine is four cases big. But I only had three on hand that day. And less the next day.



Natty Light!  :D


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## BrotherBart (Jul 22, 2010)

BrowningBAR said:
			
		

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If there is anything worse than a beer snob it is wood stove snob. I can afford any stove or beer on the planet. I burn in and drink what I like. And laugh at the others. 

Carry on. Having a taste of Cutty Sark before retiring for the night.


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## wendell (Jul 22, 2010)

I'll let you go on the Natty Light but Cutty Sark?!? C'mon man, step up to Famous Grouse!  ;-)


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## rdust (Jul 22, 2010)

Mine isn't close to the 2.2 for usable space.  18x18x9(just over the top of the bricks).  I like loading with 16" splits so it's even less, no biggie it gets the job done as advertised.


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## Dakotas Dad (Jul 22, 2010)

BrotherBart said:
			
		

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Not much of a beer drinker.. how many bottles of Eagle Rare do you reckon will fit in there?


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## BrowningBAR (Jul 22, 2010)

BrotherBart said:
			
		

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Nope, not a beer snob.


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## madrone (Jul 22, 2010)

rdust said:
			
		

> Mine isn't close to the 2.2 for usable space.  18x18x9(just over the top of the bricks).  I like loading with 16" splits so it's even less, no biggie it gets the job done as advertised.



I'm getting 18.25 x 18.25 x 10, coming in just a little short of the tubes. (unless you're loading dimensional lumber, there will be air space at the top.) 1.9 is what I get. About 9% less than advertised. Seems to be a measurement of air volume in an empty stove. You'd need a castable wood slurry to actually utilize the full volume. A real-world standard would sure be helpful when comparing stoves.

I find Natural Light refreshing. Beats grape soda any day.


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## Slow1 (Jul 22, 2010)

All this talk about specs of the firebox size.  Interesting from an academic point of view...  However what does it really mean anyway?

I agree that advertisers shouldn't be telling lies - and I find the whole specs game disgusting; "technically if you fill it with water it will hold xyz, we realize you can't use it, but that is what it is so we'll advertise it that way so it looks better against our competitors" bah humbug.  But we already know many manufactures essentially do this with burn times and estimated sqft heating ratings etc (not to mention some of the pretty pictures in the advertising that likely could never pass clearances to be legal installs).

I bought my first stove based on what I thought was a good analysis of the specs given for different stoves.  So much was very close for the class of stove I was looking for so I made the best decision I could using what I thought were the optimal features (EPA numbers, BTU, etc).  The only really subjective input I used (unfortunately) was the brand reputation.  Well, I neglected to really talk to or read information from actual owners/users and get enough of that good ol' subjective input and regretted my decision.  

Second time around the reviews and discussion drove the decision - not the numbers.  As many have said here in this discussion, it doesn't really matter that much exactly how large the firebox is as long as it performs they way it should - i.e. you get the burn times and heat out as you desire.  Sure relatively speaking it is important to know if you have a 1.5 vs 3 cuft stove as this clearly is a big difference but if you know folks burning the type of wood you have available can heat your size/type of home well with the burn times you desire with stove X then does it matter if it really has a 1.3 vs 1.5 cuft box?

All this to say this is an interesting discussion but what does it really mean?  Oh - and even if you aren't burning in the stove all summer I think it is a poor place to store beer, it is next to impossible to keep it cold enough in there and the ice melt makes a mess of the leftover ash no matter how well you try to clean the stove.


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## Highbeam (Jul 22, 2010)

What does it really mean? 

First off you can't compare firebox volume to the other purely marketing specs such as burn times and SF heated. Those specs are not rock solid since so many factors outside of the stove design affect them. Firebox volume is a measurable and provable specification that has nothing to do with the installation and operation of the stove. We have found in this thread that the manufacturer specifies a false figure every time. Further, we have found that the falseness of that figure varies greatly so that you can't compare apples to apples, you have to actually measure. This isn't the difference between 1.3 and 1.5 (12%) this can be 1.5 vs. 2.3 (65%). From a guy with a mail order stove you should know that the purchaser has to trust some things such as specs. What if your stove came with an 8" flue? That's only a 33% error. 

The reason that these specs are published and "what this means" is that we use published specs in place of real world experience to compare those stoves that are new to the market or those for which we can't find sufficient reviews or discussion. If the specs are just wrong then what good are they?  

For me it was the woodstock Keystone. Only a few people own the stove and it is rated by WS to be teensy weensy and only heat a small area. Well it turns out that it is no more teensy weensy than my "medium" sized heritage.


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## gpcollen1 (Jul 22, 2010)

Retired Guy said:
			
		

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Don't pick on the folks who drink beer without flavor.  Those are beers made with rice and/or corn for those who don't like the flavor of beer.  Historical fact that the adjuncts were added to lighten the flavor, or remove the 'beer' flavor.  Folks drink what they want to drink.  We will have to look to the next generations to keeping the Craft beer movement going...


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## Todd (Jul 22, 2010)

Highbeam,
Maybe it's time to get rid of that tiny weeny Heritage and upgrade to the larger Fireview?  :coolgrin:  Or wait til the new Woodstock comes out?


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## Todd (Jul 22, 2010)

Wonder what the Equinox measures in at? They claim 4.0


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## Jags (Jul 22, 2010)

I have often questioned the actual load volume of the Quad, now I'm gonna have to get the tape out and measure it.

Oh, and for the record, I have never met a beer I wouldn't drink.


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## the_dude (Jul 22, 2010)

BrotherBart said:
			
		

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BB,

I assumed from your picture you were burning that Natty Light in an effort to rid the world of it.  For that, I commend you, sir! 

Of course, I'm joking.  Drink whatever you want.  I've put down a fair share of Blatz in my days, so I don't judge.


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## BrotherBart (Jul 22, 2010)

Look at the bright side, it ain't Genny Light.  :lol:


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## Highbeam (Jul 22, 2010)

I like beer. I make beer. I am now drinking a Mak-n-jaks amber that is 6% alcohol and a fairly heavy beer. However, you will also find in my fridge about a dozen cans of MGD because sometimes you just want to drink something lighter. I'll drink any of the canned beer and it's all pretty good. I have actually dumped out some of the fancy craft beer that just tastes bad. 

I bet that Equinox is only 3CF or less. It is based on, or at least looks a lot like, my heritage and given the company's measurement methods as demonstrated on this thread I would bet a can of MGD on 3 or less CF.


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## Todd (Jul 22, 2010)

If the Equinox is 3cu ft or less I bet you could get away with a 6" chimney. Who's got one to measure?


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## the_dude (Jul 22, 2010)

Highbeam said:
			
		

> I'll drink any of the canned beer and it's all pretty good.



I guessing you've never had Old Style Dry  :cheese:


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## mikepinto65 (Jul 22, 2010)

Had to chime in (about the beer). A favorite of mine is Corona Light (never seems to give me a hangover!), everyday cheap beer is Coors Light. I like all types really, but save the heavier beer for fall, winter and spring.


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## Battenkiller (Jul 22, 2010)

quads said:
			
		

> I have measured my smoke dragon's firebox; 7 cubic feet.



Your smoke dragon could eat my smoke dragon for breakfast.

I measured my Vigilant's interior last season.  I think it was just a shade under 2.5 cu.ft, but it sure seems to hold a lot of wood.  It's a top loader, so I can always slip a decent size round in on top and still get the door to close.  They all drop down magazine style, so even though I wouldn't call the upper portion "firebox", it still counts toward an overnight burn.  With the bypass closed, it burns horizontally across the bottom anyway, so it's real hard to say where the fire ends and the "hopper" begins.


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## Backwoods Savage (Jul 22, 2010)

I'm still trying to figure out whether this thread is about firebox sizes of beer.


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## Pagey (Jul 22, 2010)

Backwoods Savage said:
			
		

> I'm still trying to figure out whether this thread is about firebox sizes of beer.



Someone was talking about stoves?!  :lol:

Edit: best bang for the buck beer here is Yuengling Black & Tan, $5.78 for a sixer (pre-tax).


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## BrotherBart (Jul 22, 2010)

I throw that pic up in a firebox size thread once every year and the thread always goes to hell when they see that Natural Light.  :coolgrin:


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## Pagey (Jul 22, 2010)

I like beer.  I like some beers better than others.  But, still, I like beer.


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## quads (Jul 22, 2010)

Battenkiller said:
			
		

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It's a big one.


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## BrowningBAR (Jul 22, 2010)

Battenkiller said:
			
		

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Yeah, the beginning of the first year burning I was concerned with over stuffing the stove. The second year... not so much concern.


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## BrowningBAR (Jul 22, 2010)

Highbeam said:
			
		

> I don't know how many of you have actually measured your fireboxes to compare to other stoves or to the specs but I did for the first time last night and was a bit surprised to see that my Hearthstone Heritage which is spec'd out to be 2.3 cubic feet only measures 21" wide, 10" deep, and 12" tall to the center of the sloped roof. That gives me a whopping 1.5 CF of firebox volume. Only 65% of what Hearthstone says it should be.
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> What brought this up for me was when Todd measured his new Keystone at somewhere around 1.4CF with a half rack of MGD easily slipped into it. I thought to myself that I couldn't get much more in mine so I checked.
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> Perhaps the tiny woodstocks aren't so tiny after all. Perhaps the mainstream brands have been using some trickery to make their stoves appear larger.




I just checkout mine and the 10" deep might be understating things. Even measuring from the edge of the interior door lip to the vertical bar in back gives me 11". It's a bout twelve if you measure from the furthest point. Actual box size is probably about 2 cubic feet of space.

Doesn't matter either way. It will be a lot more efficient than the Vigilant. Should burn longer, too.


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## iskiatomic (Jul 23, 2010)

C'mon doesn't anyone do PBR? A great working mans beer. Oh wait we were talking fireboxes. I fill mine and I get 8-12 hours, that's all I need to know.


KC


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## BrotherBart (Jul 23, 2010)

iskiatomic said:
			
		

> C'mon doesn't anyone do PBR? A great working mans beer. Oh wait we were talking fireboxes. I fill mine and I get 8-12 hours, that's all I need to know.
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Did a bunch of PBR in the Army in the sixties when it was a buck eighty a case at the PX and Budweiser was over two dollars. Haven't touched one since.  ;-) When I was drawing $84 a month though PBR tasted just fine.


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## SolarAndWood (Jul 23, 2010)

Highbeam said:
			
		

> What does it really mean?
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> First off you can't compare firebox volume to the other purely marketing specs such as burn times and SF heated. Those specs are not rock solid since so many factors outside of the stove design affect them. Firebox volume is a measurable and provable specification that has nothing to do with the installation and operation of the stove. We have found in this thread that the manufacturer specifies a false figure every time.



I don't necessarily agree that the manufacturer's are specifying a false figure.  However, the industry standard for the spec should be something like the length log they specify x how wide it will fit x how high it will fit over the entire width they claim.  The fact that I could theoretically stick a piece of wood on either side of the cat enclosure at the top of the firebox is irrelevant.


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## geoxman (Jul 23, 2010)

I am drinking a few natural lights this evening and if I was not drinking that then it would be MW best light. good luck


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## madrone (Jul 23, 2010)

iskiatomic said:
			
		

> C'mon doesn't anyone do PBR? A great working mans beer. Oh wait we were talking fireboxes. I fill mine and I get 8-12 hours, that's all I need to know.
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PBR is the "hip" beer here. College kids stand around striking poses with it in their Dickies shirts and trucker caps. It's the only cheap beer I refuse to drink. They used to put Olympia in an 11 oz. brown glass "stubby". That was my go to on a summer evening.


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## Battenkiller (Jul 23, 2010)

BrowningBAR said:
			
		

> Yeah, the beginning of the first year burning I was concerned with over stuffing the stove. The second year... not so much concern.



I'm sure you find like I do that on the Vig, it works OK stuffed to the gills when the bypass is closed, but works a lot better 3/4 full when in updraft mode.  Took me half the season to figure that one out.

To me, I'm a lot more concerned with how big the stove is _outside_ the box than inside it.  That's the part throwing all the heat.  Larger surface areas radiate more heat at the same temperature.  That's one of those inconvenient laws of physics folks tend to overlook in their quest for a long burn.

As for beer, it belongs outside the box, in a cooler on top of the stove.  I ain't stooping down in the dust to grovel for a beer on a hot day.  Put whatever flavor suds you want in it, just don't put anything with "lite" in the name in my cooler, 'cause I'll puke it all back up if I can ever get it down in the first place.

As for the Eagle Rare, can't say I'd ever get enough stockpiled to fill even a F100.  Stuff tastes too damn good to last for long.


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## WES999 (Jul 23, 2010)

I just measured my Regency F1100. The claimed firebox volume is 1.4CF, I measured 18" wide 12" deep and 9" high.
That comes out to 1.125CF. Did my stove shrink or something?


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## Jags (Jul 23, 2010)

geoxman said:
			
		

> ....then it would be MW best light.



There are some places even I won't go. :sick: ...YUCK!


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## Highbeam (Jul 23, 2010)

BrowningBAR said:
			
		

> I just checkout mine and the 10" deep might be understating things. Even measuring from the edge of the interior door lip to the vertical bar in back gives me 11". It's a bout twelve if you measure from the furthest point. Actual box size is probably about 2 cubic feet of space.
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> Doesn't matter either way. It will be a lot more efficient than the Vigilant. Should burn longer, too.



Oops, check your math. Even 11" deep only gets you 1.6 CF.

I didn't even consider measuring to the glass, that is not the way you are supposed to burn the stove. Approximately 10" deep is the usable firebox depth on the heritage, there is a substantial lip right where this point rests at the front. I fill the box, use all of it. If you are willing to load against the glass then you might get a little more just like if you loaded above the baffle somehow.


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## BrowningBAR (Jul 23, 2010)

Highbeam said:
			
		

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Seriously though, what type of burn times are you getting out of it. And by burn times I mean real heat production. This will be the first year for the Heritage.


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## Slow1 (Jul 23, 2010)

I'm not trying to defend the stove manufacturers here, but do try to be fair in making measurements of these stoves.  Don't discount any space inside the firebox when doing your calculations and comparing to the spec sheets - if it is space in the box not filled with bricks I would count it (I'm even wondering though if they count the space filled with bricks, that in my opinion is marginal as the bricks are mandatory) however even the parts of the firebox not packed with wood are part of the firebox volume.  I don't understand why folks want to discount those parts from their calculations.  Are stove manufactures saying "you can put 3.0 cuft of wood in this stove" or are they saying "this stove has a 3.0 cuft firebox".  I can't imagine anyone would reasonably expect that putting a solid block of wood in a stove with no air space would ever be able to burn - so you have to have that gap between the wood and glass or to the sides of the wood or whatever - some of those "hard to load" areas are probably good to be there as they keep folks from packing the stove so tight it can't burn at all.  I doubt anyone is being shorted capacity of their stoves because of those bits of space - we're burning wood here and it needs space to out gas and then mix with air and burn.


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## thechimneysweep (Jul 23, 2010)

I just measured my PE Spectrum (Super Series firebox, same as used in the Super 27, Super Steptop, Classic, Fusion and Super Insert), and if I allow a 2-1/2" space between the viewing window and the wood for airwash purposes, the usable space measures 18-5/8" x 14-5/8" x 12-1/2", or 1.97 cu.ft.  PE's irresponsible advertising department blows this up to 2.0 cu.ft.

Any PE Super Series owners on the forum want to sign a petition demanding our .03 cu.ft.?


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## tutu_sue (Jul 23, 2010)

With a teeny stove like mine, the .20 cubic feet could mean not having the boiler kick on in the morning because I have to start from a cold stove.


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## bokehman (Jul 23, 2010)

I think you boys have got it wrong measuring the firebox. There's so many different sizes and shapes (a lip here, a firebrick there, or an angled baffle, etc) that it would be much more useful to say how much wood it can hold. Fill it up with wood and then take it out and weigh it. My firebox dimensions come to 2cf, but with ash, coals and other design features I think I would be lucky to get 1.3cf of real space. One load of wood (oak) weighs about 15lb.


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## begreen (Jul 23, 2010)

I prefer to look at it this way.


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## Todd (Jul 23, 2010)

bokehman said:
			
		

> I think you boys have got it wrong measuring the firebox. There's so many different sizes and shapes (a lip here, a firebrick there, or an angled baffle, etc) that it would be much more useful to say how much wood it can hold. Fill it up with wood and then take it out and weigh it. My firebox dimensions come to 2cf, but with ash, coals and other design features I think I would be lucky to get 1.3cf of real space. One load of wood (oak) weighs about 15lb.



I think the stove industry standard is 20lbs hardwood per 1 cu ft. I don't know what kind of hardwood they're talking about since that can vary but Hearthstone states the Heritage can hold 46lbs of hardwood so they are saying the usable fire box size is a tad over 2 cu ft. I think my manual for my Fireview states 35lbs of hardwood but according to Highbeam the Heritage is smaller than the Fireview so something doesn't add up. I guess there are lots of variables here and it can seem kind of nitpicky but some of us wood stove geeks like to know these things and would like to see a more standard apples to apples comparison.


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## Beetle-Kill (Jul 23, 2010)

Nice BeGreen, nice. And for those Coor's drinkers out there- the creek that runs to the plant in Golden is fed by the creek that runs through my place. I pee in that creek.


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## tutu_sue (Jul 23, 2010)

Is that why Coor's has a certain "wang" to it?


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## Beetle-Kill (Jul 23, 2010)

Thanks for not saying "little wang" to it. :red:


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## Delta-T (Jul 23, 2010)

Beetle-Kill said:
			
		

> Nice BeGreen, nice. And for those Coor's drinkers out there- the creek that runs to the plant in Golden is fed by the creek that runs through my place. I pee in that creek.



Still no indoor plumbing at 8200', eh? I'm sure its coming soon.


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## Highbeam (Jul 23, 2010)

thechimneysweep said:
			
		

> I just measured my PE Spectrum (Super Series firebox, same as used in the Super 27, Super Steptop, Classic, Fusion and Super Insert), and if I allow a 2-1/2" space between the viewing window and the wood for airwash purposes, the usable space measures 18-5/8" x 14-5/8" x 12-1/2", or 1.97 cu.ft.  PE's irresponsible advertising department blows this up to 2.0 cu.ft.
> 
> Any PE Super Series owners on the forum want to sign a petition demanding our .03 cu.ft.?



Now that's what I would hope that we would all find. To be fair, I didn't mess with getting this to the 1/8". Closest half inch was all I did. 

So Tom, you must have an equinox in the shop. Any chance you could measure?


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## begreen (Jul 23, 2010)

Beetle-Kill said:
			
		

> Nice BeGreen, nice. And for those Coor's drinkers out there- the creek that runs to the plant in Golden is fed by the creek that runs through my place. I pee in that creek.



Thanks. I didn't feel like hauling out a ton of bottles, but checked and found that allowing for 2" behind the glass, this is an easy 6 x 5 or a 30 bottle firebox. 

I understand the connection with Coors. We used to call it pisswater because you had to drink so much of it, that was the inevitable result. Seemed that regardless the quantity consumed one remained sober.


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## thechimneysweep (Jul 23, 2010)

> So Tom, you must have an equinox in the shop. Any chance you could measure?



Highbeam, you want to measure to the 1/8".  By the time you do all the multiplication, it makes a diff.

We have a small showroom, and can't display every model.  Our Office Manager/CFO, our Install Foreman, our Master Sweep and our Corporation President/CEO (Paul, The Sweet Child and I) all voted to put an Equinox on our test burn flue to replace BeGreen's T6, but the Formidable Mrs. Oyen thought one of the new Hase Euro Collection models would look cute in that spot.
I guess it does.


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## begreen (Jul 23, 2010)

How are those Hase's for burning and heating? Are they selling?


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## Battenkiller (Jul 23, 2010)

Well, I took the time to go down and measure every part of the interior of my Vigilant.  I was being stingy with my estimate before.  It has pretty close to 3.2 cu.ft. inside it, right up to the top of the loading door. And I've filled it that full on many a long, cold January and February night. That measurement doesn't include about 1 1/2" of ash that sits down below the wood between the fins of the grate.  No wonder it cranks out so much heat... and eats so much wood.  I wonder how much a Defiant really holds?

But the _real_ question?  BB, why are you drinking Cutty Sark with so many fine tasting single malts out there?  Nothing wrong with the stuff or the way it tastes, but go for a little variety.  I used to drink Johnny Black, then Chivas almost exclusively.  Then a 12 year old Macallan made its way to my lips and I've never been the same.  I've been trying them all since then.  Sticking with only one blended whisky is like have sex with the same woman every time.  Better than no sex at all, but the whisky won't up and walk out on you if it catches you cheating on it, so it's a good substitute for fooling around on the old lady.


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## BrowningBAR (Jul 23, 2010)

Battenkiller said:
			
		

> Well, I took the time to go down and measure every part of the interior of my Vigilant.  I was being stingy with my estimate before.  It has pretty close to 3.2 cu.ft. inside it, right up to the top of the loading door. And I've filled it that full on many a long, cold January and February night. That measurement doesn't include about 1 1/2" of ash that sits down below the wood between the fins of the grate.  No wonder it cranks out so much heat... and eats so much wood.




I'm interested in seeing the comparison of the two. The Vigilant is 50k BTUs and the Heritage is 55k. The Vigilant has a much larger firebox, but I know that damn thing is inefficient. Looking forward to this winter.


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## thechimneysweep (Jul 23, 2010)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> How are those Hase's for burning and heating? Are they selling?



Exceptional fit and finish, BIG view of the fire, should do the 1200 sq.ft. Hearthstone advertises.  The price point and ultra-modern styling limits the potential customer base, but we've sold a few, and the feedback has been positive.


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## Battenkiller (Jul 23, 2010)

BrowningBAR said:
			
		

> I'm interested in seeing the comparison of the two. The Vigilant is 50k BTUs and the Heritage is 55k. The Vigilant has a much larger firebox, but I know that damn thing is inefficient. Looking forward to this winter.



I'm curious to see what you find.  Mike Pinto here had a Vigilant and then got an Oslo.  He seemed to be a little nervous about how the Vig burned, and I have to say I was as well in the beginning.  He likes the Oslo better, and says he gets more heat with less wood for a stove that's basically the same size.  Only thing is, I don't know how he burned his.  I burned hot as Hades in mine.  I figured if I blew it up, there are plenty more where that one came from.  So far, no apparent damage but a warped andiron.  I did get an embarrassing amount of creosote from it, though.  That really surprised me because the pipe and stove interior were always squeaky clean.  The sweep said most of the creo was about 15' up the flue, and there was only about 1/4" overall, but the chimney is 25' tall, so 1/4" in an 8" tile flue can add up to a lot all told.  All that unburned smoke has to go somewhere if I ain't seeing it come out the top of the stack.  And I did go through almost 6 cord this year as well, a lot of it good hickory.  But the place was toast-_y_ for the first time in 20 years, so I think I can live with burning more wood and getting it cleaned out twice a year.  He didn't think I needed to, but I think the draft suffered by season's end, so it may be worth it.


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## BrotherBart (Jul 24, 2010)

Beetle-Kill said:
			
		

> Nice BeGreen, nice. And for those Coor's drinkers out there- the creek that runs to the plant in Golden is fed by the creek that runs through my place. I pee in that creek.



That is why I don't drink Anheuser Busch beers from the St. Louis brewery. That is where they stable the Clydesdales.  :grrr:

As to the single malts. Glenfiddich is my favorite but not available in our damned state liquor stores.


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## Battenkiller (Jul 24, 2010)

BrotherBart said:
			
		

> As to the single malts. Glenfiddich is my favorite but not available in our damned state liquor stores.



Glenfiddich is good stuff, and I dig the triangle-shaped bottle.  You can pack more in the stove that way.


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## wendell (Jul 24, 2010)

If he was drinking Cutty Sark, i didn't think it was fair to bring up single malts. Give me anything from Islay and I'm a happy camper.


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## gibson (Jul 24, 2010)

I just filled my stove with canned foam and I am now pretty sure that I got screwed out of 1 cubic inch!  I'm asking for a refund.  I usually drink Bud Light, unless a guest brings something else.


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## Battenkiller (Jul 24, 2010)

wendell said:
			
		

> If he was drinking Cutty Sark, i didn't think it was fair to bring up single malts. Give me anything from Islay and I'm a happy camper.



Well, I wasn't going to look like a whisky snob...

... but I just finished off the last of a bottle of Laphraoig. Special quarter-cask bottling, non-chill filtered, sipped neat, slowly and lovingly from a crystal snifter.  Positively divine concoction.  Drank it while watching a great Swedish flick, "The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo".  In the film there was a scene where a bottle of 21 year-old single malt was brought out, described as "too good to be true".  Sometimes a great whisky just seems that way.


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## bokehman (Jul 24, 2010)

Todd said:
			
		

> the stove industry standard is 20lbs hardwood per 1 cu ft. I don't know what kind of hardwood they're talking about since that can vary but Hearthstone states the Heritage can hold 46lbs of hardwood


Now take it out and weigh it. I'll bet there's nowhere near 46lbs in it.


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## Battenkiller (Jul 24, 2010)

bokehman said:
			
		

> Todd said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



20 lbs/cu.ft.?  Basswood weighs more than that, never mind oak or hickory.

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/wood-density-d_40.html

I have an older but highly accurate produce scale near my stove that I use for weighing canoe parts and exotic wood and such.  I can easily fit about 60-70 pounds of bone dry white ash in my Vigilant without overcrowding things.  Stove ain't supposed to hold that much (55 lbs max), but it fits and it ain't never complained about it.  If I loaded it to the top with straight shagbark, I'll bet it'd hold close to 80 lbs.  That's less than 2 cu.ft of solid hickory wood, plenty of room for the 1.4 cu.ft. of air left over.  So, I don't know how much room is inside a Heritage, but I weighed what mine can hold.


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## bren582 (Jul 25, 2010)

Love the wine bottle pic by BeGreen..  Just measured my Clydesdale which is anything but a square box. I measured from the center of the box for LxWxH average with bricks an baffle in place and came up with almost exactly 2.4 cuft.. No issues here.. 

2.4cuft is what Hearthstone claims in the literature for the insert


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## bobforsaken (Jul 26, 2010)

Todd said:
			
		

> BrotherBart said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Feel free to send some to me...  I love me some Leinies!  I can't get Creamy Dark anywhere here.   Can't wait for Fireside Nut Brown season


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## Todd (Aug 27, 2010)

Sorry to dig this old thread up but the other day I was walking through the local Farm and Fleet store and they had the Englander 13 and 30 sitting there so I decided to measure the fire boxes. I took the measurements from side to side with the brick in, bottom brick to the top of the burn tube and from the front lip under the door to the rear fire bricks. The 30 came in at 2.76 and the NC13 was 1.54, a little short of their 3.5 and 1.8. 

I'm not trying to dis Englander, they make one of the best bangs for your buck out there and recommended them to a couple friends. I rarely ever hear a bad thing about them. It's just that it bugs the crap out of me and felt like venting. With the new season approaching many nebies will be looking at different stoves and want to compare apples to apples. Well if you do it, it would be a good idea to measure or even throw some splits in there to get a better idea of what's what.

Oh, by the way, no beer today, I'm drinking Bacardi.


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## sapratt (Aug 27, 2010)

quads said:
			
		

> I have measured my smoke dragon's firebox; 7 cubic feet.



I second that.


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## tickbitty (Aug 28, 2010)

quads said:
			
		

> I have measured my smoke dragon's firebox; 7 cubic feet.



I hear a "tool time" Tim Allen "GRUNT" when I read that.

My insert seems to have slightly over the 2.2 they claim.  

18" X 19.5" X 11" to the bottom of the burn tubes.


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## quads (Aug 28, 2010)

tickbitty said:
			
		

> quads said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yup, Old Smokey has been heating my butt for 40-ish years.


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## BrotherBart (Aug 28, 2010)

quads said:
			
		

> tickbitty said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Quit taking pics of wood splits and your axe for a second and hit us with a pic of that bad boy stove.


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## quads (Aug 28, 2010)

BrotherBart said:
			
		

> quads said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't think so.  It's not very pretty.  Maybe.  I'll think about it!


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## Danno77 (Aug 28, 2010)

yeah, I need a pic, Quads. I was starting to wonder if you actually have a stove or you just like cutting and splitting wood.


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## Todd (Aug 28, 2010)

Hearthstone Equinox 3.1 cu ft. Not even close to their stated 4.0. Wonder why they even bothered venting it with 8"?


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## Battenkiller (Aug 28, 2010)

quads said:
			
		

> I don't think so.  It's not very pretty.



C'mon... Mama always said that pretty is as pretty does.  I'm sure your beast does and does and does some more.  That alone makes it beautiful in my eyes.


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## quads (Aug 28, 2010)

Danno77 said:
			
		

> yeah, I need a pic, Quads. I was starting to wonder if you actually have a stove or you just like cutting and splitting wood.


Ha ha!  All the more to sell!


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## JeffT (Aug 29, 2010)

Just checked the stove 17.5D 20.75W 12H-4x4x12(angled back corners)=2.4 for the Quad Cumberland Gap.Advertised 2.4.
Also my favorite beer is an open one.Doesn't even have to be that cold,just not flat.


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## kevinmerchant (Aug 29, 2010)

Come On! What did you have to go drag-in the the Englander 30 into it for. I just bought one, all excited about the big 3.5 box after burn-in in a 1.4 and 1.7 (or maybe they were only .9 and 1.1). When I get home I'm measuring them all and will post {Vermont convection, Avolon pendalian, Englander furnace, and the new 30). Then again I wont be all that upset since I snagged the Englander 30 with shipping for a whopping $725. Can't wait to get home, should get there same time I do Monday.


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## Ratman (Aug 29, 2010)

BrotherBart said:
			
		

> Mine is four cases big. But I only had three on hand that day. And less the next day.



classic!


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## Ratman (Aug 29, 2010)

BrotherBart said:
			
		

> BrowningBAR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



classic again!
The brother is loud & proud!


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## Chargerman (Aug 30, 2010)

My Country Flame BBF measures out at 3.9 cubic feet. I measured from the top of the firebrick that is on the bottom and came out the same as the advertised size.


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## Todd (Aug 30, 2010)

That's a huge fire box Chargerman. How's your burn times? Do they compare to Blaze King?


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## Chargerman (Aug 30, 2010)

Todd said:
			
		

> That's a huge fire box Chargerman. How's your burn times? Do they compare to Blaze King?



I haven't really tried for length as I usually load at least twice a day with my work schedule and fill the stove accordingly. On walnut and elm mix I was getting 16 hours of useful heat with the fan on low pretty easily. I did burn some oak towards the end of the year in cool but not cold weather. I do remember one 24 hour burn with good coals to start off and I hadn't filled the firebox with that load.

My experience does indicate the fan reduces the length of time I can go between loads by a noticeable amount. The fan is quite large at 600cfm. It works well as my BBF is an insert and it gets the heat out in the house quite well. With a freestanding stove I think the length of burn would be extended or at least the "useful" radiant heat being given off would be longer.

The Blaze King 48hr burn times are probably not possible with the stove but I like the way this stove works fine. My house is a 2300 sq.ft. ranch and it kept up when outside temps were well below zero and the wind was blowing. Not bad for an insert IMO.


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## michaeldd (Jan 3, 2011)

Interesting thread...  It seems to parallel a number of other things I've noticed over the years in which the sales claims often differ from what the engineering office may have published.  Government mpg figures come to mind most quickly...   

Anyway, to paraphrase some unknown man, when asked "How big is your stove?" my reply is "Big enough for me!"

On a more serious note, I think I've come up with a solution for comparing firebox sizes equitably.  Simply fill the firebox with ping pong balls.  They'll fill the box with some airspace between them, they're light and easy to handle.  If you're not fond of ping pong balls use golf balls.  I'm sure some of you have a number of smiling balls stashed away somewhere...

PBR?  That's all american!  You know...   red, white, and blue...   rednecks, white sox, and blue ribbon beer...


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## mhrischuk (Aug 7, 2011)

Big fireboxes

Big decks...


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