# ignorance is bliss (massive wood score)



## j7art2 (Feb 12, 2015)

I responded to an ad on Facebook on one of my local garage sale sites. This lady owns a ton of land and every year, the power company comes through and cuts down all of the overhanging trees. 95% of what was cut however was pine and/or softwood.

Given that I live in Michigan and have a plethora of hardwoods available here, the old wives tale of 'never burn pine due to excess creosote' myth runs rampant, and is deeply rooted with all wood burners here, and not a single person responded to the ad. 

Using the knowledge from this site, I took the bait, knowing that most of Alaska, Washington, Oregon, etc, don't even HAVE hardwood available, and properly seasoned wood makes heat, regardless of species. 

Upon arrival, I came across piles and piles and piles of 2-4' length logs, properly stacked EVERYWHERE. Easily 10 truck loads, probably more. I drive up, load up, drive away. Sure, I have to buck it to length, split it and season it, but half the work is already done for me. 

Score of a lifetime. I told her I'd take it all, and she took down the ad. I am so geeked to find this score.


----------



## MaintenanceMan (Feb 12, 2015)

Awesome!


----------



## JP11 (Feb 12, 2015)

Good for you, and for her.


----------



## j7art2 (Feb 12, 2015)

My dad has been burning wood for 30 years and even he was like 'man, it's pine, I'd never touch that stuff.' I sent him a bunch of links and emails educating him on how pine isn't the monster everyone claims it to be. 

The old wive's tale has a grain of truth to it of course, stemming from years ago, but years ago, they didn't season firewood like they do now, and cutting and burning was a regular practice. Obviously pine would be the worst of the worst options for this.


----------



## j7art2 (Feb 12, 2015)

I keep finding reference to this University of Georgia study that actually conducted an experiment on the creosote accumulation between hardwood and softwood, and how properly seasoned softwoods often create _less_ creosote than hardwoods do. I'm trying to find the exact article on it, so I can read the nitty gritty statistical data on it all. Are any of you familiar with it by chance?


----------



## 2PistolPacker (Feb 12, 2015)

Good score pine or not. I am an admitted reformed wood snob, prior to this year I wouldn't waste my time on anything other than locust, hedge, oak or hickory. I sell firewood and people only wanted these species of wood and since it takes just as much effort to process oak as it does pine I never touched it. Now that I burn everyday those old habits are gone, if it is firewood it's going in my burner. I actually have elm  in my stacks.


----------



## j7art2 (Feb 12, 2015)

I've burned some seasoned pine this year, and was quite impressed at how well it worked. Even without the study, I'd be all over it like white on rice. I was told up and down box elder was junk too, and burned well over a cord of it this year. I'd go out of my way now to get more. Slightly less heat than ash, but I found it made a better coal bed for me. Great stuff. I'll take it all. Wood is wood, and the less I have to cut and haul out of the woods the better. That's half the work for me already done.


----------



## Plow Boy (Feb 12, 2015)

great find, i also burn whatever i can get.  My stacks have gum, pine, maple, hickory,oak, poplar and cedar.  I really like to use pine when i need to get the temp up fast, and it is great to mix with poplar during shoulder season burns.


----------



## MaintenanceMan (Feb 12, 2015)

It's like a good friend of mine always says.... Anything burns better than a snowball..

Get it cheap. Stack it deep!


----------



## sportbikerider78 (Feb 12, 2015)

Very interesting.  Great info.  

Does the moisture content universally apply across all woods?  <20% is a good place to be for both hard and soft?


----------



## Bret Chase (Feb 12, 2015)

2PistolPacker said:


> Good score pine or not. I am an admitted reformed wood snob, prior to this year I wouldn't waste my time on anything other than locust, hedge, oak or hickory. I sell firewood and people only wanted these species of wood and since it takes just as much effort to process oak as it does pine I never touched it. Now that I burn everyday those old habits are gone, if it is firewood it's going in my burner. I actually have elm  in my stacks.



while a complete PITA to split... I don't mind elm.  hell.... the stringier splits are like having built in kindling..


----------



## Dune (Feb 12, 2015)

sportbikerider78 said:


> Very interesting.  Great info.
> 
> Does the moisture content universally apply across all woods?  <20% is a good place to be for both hard and soft?


Pitch pine is ready to burn when the bark separates and falls off. Usually takes 2 years. I go by density. With enough practice it is obvious when it is ready. Other pines, softwoods cure before the bark loosens. Again, compare density of fresh cut to cured.


----------



## claydogg84 (Feb 12, 2015)

You said it yourself - There is a plethora of hardwoods available in your area. I would guess that is the main reason nobody else responded to the ad, not because of the creosote myth. I don't bother with any softwoods myself, but I have fairly good access to hardwoods all spring/summer/fall.


----------



## Plow Boy (Feb 12, 2015)

hardwoods=more weight=more BTU's


----------



## Dune (Feb 12, 2015)

Plow Boy said:


> hardwoods=more weight=more BTU's


But the same # of BTU's per pound. The problem is volume, you need twice as much space for pine. If you have the room , it is awesome. 

Plus, on those few supercold nights, some pine will give you heat while burning down excess coals. 

In my case, stove length pine is often dropped in my yard. When the pile gets crazy enough, I split it and stack it. 

Free, delivered pine is what finally enabled me to get many years ahead.


----------



## Plow Boy (Feb 12, 2015)

I burn plenty of pine, and i believe it will always have a place in my stacks.  Pine is excellent when your behind and you need wood that will season fast. 
But like i said Hardwood is more dense and therefore heavier, which equals more BTU's.  And BTU's are our friends


----------



## 7acres (Feb 12, 2015)

Bret Chase said:


> the stringier splits are like having built in kindling..



I look for stringy stuff sometimes when I need some good kindling. Also, dry punky wood is fantastic too.


----------



## j7art2 (Feb 12, 2015)

I've had 3 fellow wood burners on my facebook page try and refute my claim that pine is anything but junk. "Don't burn it inside!!" lol

I wish I had my hands on the study. I remember finding it and reading it, but now I can't find it anymore.

Pound for pound, wood has the same BTU, as stated above. The thing is, a cord of pine weighs less than a cord of oak, so you'd need more pine than oak to get the same amount of heat.

I have plenty of access to hardwood, but on the flip side, I've gone through 10 cords this year (and only have 12 for the whole year and have since resolved the issue why I'm going through wood so quickly) and this is my first year burning at the new house, so I had to do a lot of scrambling of dead and down. I have 4 acres of land, so storing it won't be a problem. I'll take what I can get, and the more work someone else is doing is less that I have to be doing if I want to get a few years ahead. 


Sportbike, all wood under 20% MC is good to burn, regardless of species. There may be some exceptions to this, as I've heard Sumac for example is toxic..? That study I'm looking for showed that pine created LESS creosote than most hardwoods. The reason being, is that if you take say 2 year seasoned oak, and 2 year seasoned pine and dry them out side by side, since the pine is less dense, it's MC is going to be less at the end of 2 years than the oak more than likely as it'll be able to lose more moisture. Less MC, less creosote.


----------



## claydogg84 (Feb 12, 2015)

Good lord.. If I was burning 12 cord a year I imagine I'd be burning pine as well.


----------



## j7art2 (Feb 12, 2015)

Fresh air intake in the basement slowed my wood consumption drastically. Without complete combustion, it was just smoldering and not making heat half the time. Unfortunately, I just installed it a few weeks ago. Lol


----------



## Dune (Feb 12, 2015)

j7art2 said:


> Fresh air intake in the basement slowed my wood consumption drastically. Without complete combustion, it was just smoldering and not making heat half the time. Unfortunately, I just installed it a few weeks ago. Lol


Now insulate those cellar walls and watch your consumption plummet.


----------



## j7art2 (Feb 12, 2015)

I'd love to. That's one thing I'm surprised at. For burning on the verge of overburn sometimes, it doesn't radiate much heat. I guess the walls suck it all out. I can't expect much more out of a 40 year old furnace though. I plan on getting a new unit here within the next year or two. My buddy owns a 120 year old farmhouse that's 2400sqft and has about as much insulation as a paper bag, and with his new Yukon Eagle, has only gone through 4 cords of wood. I'm jealous.


----------



## brian89gp (Feb 12, 2015)

Bret Chase said:


> while a complete PITA to split... I don't mind elm. hell.... the stringier splits are like having built in kindling..



I like that barkless, grey in color, standing dead for 10 years elm.  Got to rent a splitter, but the stuff is already very dry and nobody around here will touch it.


----------



## English BoB (Feb 12, 2015)

j7art2 said:


> I've had 3 fellow wood burners on my facebook page try and refute my claim that pine is anything but junk. "Don't burn it inside!!" lol
> 
> I wish I had my hands on the study. I remember finding it and reading it, but now I can't find it anymore.
> 
> ...



10 cords of what type of wood ?


----------



## Bret Chase (Feb 12, 2015)

claydogg84 said:


> Good lord.. If I was burning 12 cord a year I imagine I'd be burning pine as well.



My cousin used to go through 10 cord a year in his OWB...  He got a different OWB after burning through the firebox more than once... We've had a bit of a falling out... so I dont know what the new one goes through...

I've gone through 3 cord... smoke dragon, *barely* insulated (but I'm working on it) 1865 farm house... it might be a little chilly when I get up at 6... but most of the time I am seriously considering putting shorts on...


----------



## D8Chumley (Feb 12, 2015)

Free wood = me wood   j7art2 don't be telling too many people about pine. The more reformers there are the less pine for us! Haha


----------



## ihookem (Feb 13, 2015)

The wood in my boiler bridged today and the house was 60*. I needed some quick heat beofre the wife got home.  A bunch of 1x4" pine from pallets got me one haeck of a hot fire quick. I use popple for early and late season for this reason.


----------



## j7art2 (Feb 17, 2015)

English BoB said:


> 10 cords of what type of wood ?



Primarily oak unfortunately. I've discovered though now that I'm getting into the hardwood amish slab that I picked up, that I'm getting a TON more heat from these slabs than I ever anticipated. Throwing in 8 pieces of slab vs 3 large logs is doubling my heat. Lesson learned this year, I need to cut my wood smaller I guess. It wouldn't be uncommon for me to throw in a piece or two 12" in diameter.


----------



## Smoke Signals (Feb 17, 2015)

With out pictures it didn't happen


----------



## Plow Boy (Feb 18, 2015)

+1


----------



## j7art2 (Feb 18, 2015)

I'll nab some pictures when I get home. I may have some on my phone, I'd have to check.  So far, i've gotten 3 truckloads home, getting a 4th today.


----------



## j7art2 (Feb 18, 2015)




----------



## j7art2 (Feb 18, 2015)

That's 4 overloaded truckloads.


----------



## husky345 vermont resolute (Feb 18, 2015)

Good score Art


----------



## Smoke Signals (Feb 18, 2015)

Sweet!


----------



## MrWhoopee (Feb 19, 2015)

j7art2 said:


> Primarily oak unfortunately.



What?!! I'd kill for 10 cords of primarily oak. Oak goes for $300/cord out here.


----------



## j7art2 (Feb 19, 2015)

Oak is good stuff, don't get me wrong! I love it. I'm just shocked I went through so much. I figured out why though and have fixed the problem the best I can with a 40 year old wood eating monster with a massive firebox, but I'm hoping not to use nearly as much wood next year. Using 10 cords of oak in a year is unheard of, even in -30dF nights.


----------



## Plow Boy (Feb 19, 2015)

nice score,  good splitting size


----------



## j7art2 (Feb 19, 2015)

Any tips on how to get the sap off your hands and clothes? I assumed (obviously wrongly) that the thick stuff would freeze in the winter, or get close. Not a chance. I smell like a Gin factory in Bombay whenever I'm done with a load.


----------



## Plow Boy (Feb 19, 2015)

we used to get it off with gas, or paint thinner. alot of times i perferred the rosin to the gas smell.


----------



## j7art2 (Feb 19, 2015)

I'm not that desperate! Ha.


----------



## husky345 vermont resolute (Feb 19, 2015)

Terpintine


----------



## firefighterjake (Feb 19, 2015)

Plow Boy said:


> we used to get it off with gas, or paint thinner. alot of times i perferred the rosin to the gas smell.



Mayonaise . . . followed by Lava soap or any soap with pumice in it.


----------



## Wisneaky (Feb 19, 2015)

lava soap


----------



## Hoozie (Feb 20, 2015)

butter will get pitch off easily, then soap to get the butter.  (seriously , though never tried Margarine)

Awesome score!  I'd get as much of that as I could.  

I think I went into winter with roughly 15 cords for next year(s).  At this rate, I'll be good for 6-7 more years (ya know, since we missed the cold this year )


----------



## Lumber-Jack (Feb 20, 2015)

j7art2 said:


> *The old wive's tale has a grain of truth to it* of course, stemming from years ago, but years ago, they didn't season firewood like they do now, and cutting and burning was a regular practice. _Obviously pine would be the worst of the worst options for this_.


Actually you are only partly correct about the how the pine wive's tale started.
 It's true that many people never seasoned their wood (in fact it's still true), consequently many people had pretty gummed up chimneys, and because their wood was so wet they rarely got their stoves and fireplaces hot enough to ignite a chimney fire, even with their air drafts fully open. But because pine seasons so quickly it is the first firewood to most likely burn good and hot, and because they were so use to leaving their air drafts fully open all the time, trying to keep their wet hardwood burning, when they threw in a load of nice dry pine they wouldn't think to close the draft at all to control the fire, and their stoves would get hotter then they ever could trying to burn that wet hardwood. So now they have a super hot fire in their stoves and a creosote gummed up chimney, the next thing you know they have a chimney fire on their hands.
Of course they would end up blaming the pine for how it burned, totally ignoring the fact that they had been gumming up their chimneys for years with all that green hardwood.


----------



## j7art2 (Feb 20, 2015)

Whatever the reason, I'll take what I can get. Free wood is good wood. I'll gladly take every last free bit of wood willing to be given to me. The less time I have to be cutting the better, even if I do have a brand new 562xp.


----------



## j7art2 (Mar 16, 2015)

Pine... C/S/S. 2 rows deep. Inside the shed is the 'non-pine' I gathered.


----------



## Poindexter (Mar 17, 2015)

Lumber-Jack said:


> Actually you are only partly correct about the how the pine wive's tale started.
> It's true that many people never seasoned their wood (in fact it's still true), consequently many people had pretty gummed up chimneys, and because their wood was so wet they rarely got their stoves and fireplaces hot enough to ignite a chimney fire, even with their air drafts fully open. But because pine seasons so quickly it is the first firewood to most likely burn good and hot, and because they were so use to leaving their air drafts fully open all the time, trying to keep their wet hardwood burning, when they threw in a load of nice dry pine they wouldn't think to close the draft at all to control the fire, and their stoves would get hotter then they ever could trying to burn that wet hardwood. So now they have a super hot fire in their stoves and a creosote gummed up chimney, the next thing you know they have a chimney fire on their hands.
> Of course they would end up blaming the pine for how it burned, totally ignoring the fact that they had been gumming up their chimneys for years with all that green hardwood.



This is the best explanation I have ever seen.  Thanks for posting it again.


----------

