# New guy DIY heat storage and MB55 Solo plumbing



## sardo_67 (Nov 13, 2017)

Tarm B55 here and house around 1600sq feet along with a non insulated 24x24 garage with open celling to rafters I would like to heat this winter.  located in CT

house is baseboard with some under floor in the living room, most of the walls are not insulated as It was built in 59 and I guess it was an option but has new windows.

garage will be heated directly from the boiler with 2 45kBTU modie heaters and also set up as the emergency head dump zone if my boiler gets too hot.  only looking to keep the garage at like 40/50 unless I'm actually working in there

I have seen some of the DIY hot storage tanks from wood and plastic liners which for me seems the best bet as moving large heavy tanks into my basement isn't really possible.

what can you guys recommend for me, 400/500 plenty or 1,000 really needed?  I've seen a lot of different set ups.


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## peakbagger (Nov 13, 2017)

See my reply in the other thread. 

Tank sizing is related to a lot of things. My boilers nameplate is 90,000 btus. A 500 gallon tank holds roughly 4000 pounds of water. I have standard baseboard so i pretty much run out of heat around 140 deg F. I can run my tank up to 190 deg F so the maximum temperature difference in the tank is 50 degrees. Water stores 1 btu per pound per degree F so my tank can in theory store 200,000 useful (to me)Btus. You should have run a heating calculation on your new home so look it up and see how many btus per hour you need on the coldest day. Divide by the storage but capacity and that tells you how long a charge will last you.   My boiler can put out 90,000 btus so it takes me a little over 2 hours (2.22) to heat the tank up (its closer to 3 hours). That lines up well with my lifestyle which is start heating the boiler prior to supper and then run it until the tanks up to temp. Once the tank is up to temp my boiler is also heated up with plenty of water with no place to go. I have an external hot water maker so I charge that up with the hot water in the boiler and then run the house heat off of the boiler until I go to bed. I then switch the system over to running on storage when the house calls for heat. I can usually run a day in cold weather and possibly up to three in shoulder seasons but for the last few years I have been heating the house with a minisplit in shoulder season with excess net metered solar. 

So if you put in a bigger tank you can go more days between running the boiler but at some point when you need to charge it back up you will need to run it longer. IIf you are just building the house and install radiant emitters in place of baseboard or radiant heat you can heat down to as low as 90 degrees. So the same size 500 gallon tank with radiant can be just as effective as 1000 gallon tank on regular baseboard as there is use for that warm water. Ideally everything is more efficient the lower temperature you can utilize for heating. There are higher output boilers than mine so if you want larger storage you probably want a higher output boiler.


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## sardo_67 (Nov 13, 2017)

I bought the house in June and have not been in it long enough to really see how well heating it is, cost is an issue to me right now as I spent around 30k since getting the house on remodeling and upgrading stuff.  I just know that having only a boiler and no storage isn't the best idea unless I am going to be using a lot of heat, the 55 is rated at 140k on wood so it is way over kill for a use like that.

I read more and saw in the other thread I need to make a close pressurized system as I do not want to deal with making heat exchangers and such in an open tank.

however I am looking into that a lot more so it may be a possibility, I still have like 700ft of 1/2' pex left over from my under floor heating installation.


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## hobbyheater (Nov 13, 2017)

sardo_67 said:


> I bought the house in June and have not been in it long enough to really see how well heating it is, cost is an issue to me right now as I spent around 30k since getting the house on remodeling and upgrading stuff.  I just know that having only a boiler and no storage isn't the best idea unless I am going to be using a lot of heat, the 55 is rated at 140k on wood so it is way over kill for a use like that.
> 
> I read more and saw in the other thread I need to make a close pressurized system as I do not want to deal with making heat exchangers and such in an open tank.
> 
> however I am looking into that a lot more so it may be a possibility, I still have like 700ft of 1/2' pex left over from my under floor heating installation.



This Pdf file is on a home made storage tank. Use pressure treated lumber, stainless steel fasteners, and AST's Liner.


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## stee6043 (Nov 15, 2017)

500 gallon propane tanks can be surprisingly easy to move with two guys and a dolly on each end.

Mine were 37" in diameter.  Strategically about 2" bigger than my walk-out slider door.  Other than the door issue moving them in/out was pretty straight forward...

Just thought I'd share.


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## sardo_67 (Nov 15, 2017)

is there a reason 55gal plastic tanks aren't used?  or the other various types of plastic tanks available on CL for somewhat cheap, mostly agriculture use ones?


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## peakbagger (Nov 15, 2017)

sardo_67 said:


> is there a reason 55gal plastic tanks aren't used?  or the other various types of plastic tanks available on CL for somewhat cheap, mostly agriculture use ones?



Plastic tanks are typically limited to 140 to 160 degrees F. Any more than that and the tank will lose integrity. Too low of temp for storage.


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## Bob Rohr (Nov 15, 2017)

Take a look at the tanks that Tom builds at www.americansolartechnics.com  He has spent many years perfecting the open tank design and components.


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## Fred61 (Nov 16, 2017)

Both pressurized and unpressurized have their advantages and disadvantages. One particular thing I like about unpressurized is that unlike pressurized it's simple to get domestic hot water without screwing around with side arms, pumps, etc.


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## Sparky (Nov 19, 2017)

I built a unpressurized storage system like the one in the instructions hobbyheater gave you, Approx. 1200 gallons 8x8 I used copper coils for my heat exchanger (most expensive part) It works quite well. I also used EPDM as a liner. I have a 2400 sq foot house in VT well insulated. In shoulder seasons I can a couple of days between firing. The first tank I built was half the size, That worked ok but the bigger tank is much better. If you need any details or help PM me and I will give you my number and I will help you any way I can


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## peakbagger (Nov 19, 2017)

Although the Kerr design that was linked has some great reference value it sadly advocates an EPDM liner. As many have found out EPDM or various strains of modified EPDM is not and never been rated for elevated hot water storage. Some people have been lucky and perhaps the prior poster was one of them but do yourself a favor and use another material. Sure there are more exotic systems that could work well, the cost and installation hassle is far higher than the cost to get a custom PVC liner built which has been proved in the long term. 

There were at least two possibly more manufacturers licensed by University of Maine to make the Richard Hill boiler design. This was the first design wood boiler that required external hot water storage. Sadly many of these installations failed when various home built storage solutions failed. The boilers were costly and storage tank longevity was regarded as an afterthought so many options were tried and many failed. AST had worked with Dick Hill for years to come up with their current design and is probably the best resource on what worked and didnt work.   

Ultimately its your call and as long as you go in realizing that an EPDM DIY liner is a science experiment, have at it. Personally I would buy or build a stainless steel tank unpressurized and be done with it if you dont want to go with heat welded PVC.


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## Nofossil (Nov 20, 2017)

I'm a huge fan of pressurized storage (I have unpressurized). Major advantages:

Propane tanks are really heavy duty - no failure worries.
No heat exchangers. When charging from your boiler at 185, water in the top of storage is 185. When heating from storage, baseboard water temp is the same as top of storage.
No evaporation loss or condensation in insulation.
Bottom line, gallon for gallon, pressurized storage provides more usable capacity.


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## sardo_67 (Nov 27, 2017)

Nofossil said:


> I'm a huge fan of pressurized storage (I have unpressurized). Major advantages:
> 
> Propane tanks are really heavy duty - no failure worries.
> No heat exchangers. When charging from your boiler at 185, water in the top of storage is 185. When heating from storage, baseboard water temp is the same as top of storage.
> ...



I am looking for tanks, finding them is a bit hard, I am finding full ones for $200 to $500 now, however I don't need any propane lol


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## salecker (Nov 28, 2017)

Check your propane suppliers,in Canada the specs changed on tanks about 10 years ago. So the propane suppliers had lots of tanks speced for 200 lbs pressure and the new specs were 250 lbs pressure.
 Or scrap yards.Or farm suppliers


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## nhtreehouse (Nov 28, 2017)

sardo_67 said:


> I am looking for tanks, finding them is a bit hard, I am finding full ones for $200 to $500 now, however I don't need any propane lol



I found mine on CL. More accurately, Chris@tarm saw it and emailed me. Thanks Chris!  I got very lucky to pick up a 1000 gallon tank for $300. Tanks are out there, you just have to beat the bushes a bit. It's an old ad, but there is a pair for sale in CT:

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/2x-500-gallon-propane-tanks.157582/

I've seen stacks of tanks in Mass, around Lowell, and another stack in Portsmouth NH, right on I95. Both of these locations are propane services places. 

Good Luck!


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## Bad LP (Nov 28, 2017)

Call any propane company. I know Amerigas in Londonderry NH had a boat load of them.


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## sardo_67 (Dec 3, 2017)

nhtreehouse said:


> I found mine on CL. More accurately, Chris@tarm saw it and emailed me. Thanks Chris!  I got very lucky to pick up a 1000 gallon tank for $300. Tanks are out there, you just have to beat the bushes a bit. It's an old ad, but there is a pair for sale in CT:
> 
> https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/2x-500-gallon-propane-tanks.157582/
> 
> ...



THANKS!!  I sent him a PM, I tried to post in there but they I can't post in the classifieds yet


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## brenndatomu (Dec 3, 2017)

Probably too low of a temp...but wouldn't it be great if ya could just dump heat to a big ole hot tub, then draw heat off that as needed?! Two birds one stone n all...


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## sardo_67 (Jan 8, 2018)

I found a 100 gal propane tank for free since it's out of hydro date and the owner just said take it. 
is that even worth setting up or just find the correct 200 gal tank?

I can't fit a 500 into my basement nor do I want to take up that much room, my idea is to get 2 200 gal vertical tanks side by side and a box around them for insulation in a pressurized system.

currently behind on the wood boiler hook up since work went crazy then really low temps so my guy didn't want to cut into my house system that works incase something went really bad and left me without any heating. 


also looking for someone who would be able to come and hook up my system for me, my guy may not be able to do it for me.


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## sardo_67 (Aug 27, 2018)

ok i will bump my old thread again........

is there any reason NOT to use a new 330 gallon oil tank as a tank for hot water storage?  after a lot of searching it will be much cheaper and easier to buy a new oil tank and then use that as my hot water storage tank with insulation around it.


is there any reason not to do this?


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## peakbagger (Aug 27, 2018)

sardo_67 said:


> ok i will bump my old thread again........
> 
> is there any reason NOT to use a new 330 gallon oil tank as a tank for hot water storage?  after a lot of searching it will be much cheaper and easier to buy a new oil tank and then use that as my hot water storage tank with insulation around it.
> 
> ...



Yes there is major reason not to use a 330 gallon oil tank. RUST. A standard oil tank is not designed for pressure, it has to be vented so you are going with a non pressurized system. That means that oxygen is constantly coming in through the vent and causing the tank to rust. It may last a few years but someday you will walk downstairs and find the floor covered with 330 gallons of orange rusty water. Long ago when the first gasifiers based on the UMaine patents were sold (Dumont and Jetstream to name two) they were expensive. Many dealers went with oil tanks for storage as they were cheap, they lasted a few years and started springing leaks. Many of the tanks were stuffed into corners of basements where they were not easy to replace and the boilers got abandoned due to the tanks leaking. Enterprising folks could get the boilers for free just to take them out of the house.

Tom in Maine on this site worked with Dick Hill who invented the boiler design and his American Solar Technics tank was designed to act as a replacement for these old oil tanks used for thermal storage as they failed. Once the old tank is cut up and removed (a major task), the AST tank gets brought into place in pieces and assembled where its going to end up although it does need to be set up away from the wall to get some screws in before being pushed in place.


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## jebatty (Aug 28, 2018)

My first storage system was 3 used oil tanks, leaving an expansion gap and a vent in each tank. Just one of the many mistakes I made in designing and plumbing my Tarm heating system in 2007. Within a year one of the tanks sprang pinhole leaks. End of the oil tanks, and I got a retired 1000 gal LP tank for storage. When I drained the steel tanks, out came some very orange rusty water.


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## maple1 (Aug 28, 2018)

I would scrounge all the junkyards - or metal recycling depots - around within an hour or two drive for used LP tanks. Even 100 gallon ones would work, you could plumb a few together.


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## salecker (Aug 28, 2018)

A guy i know used 4 new oil tanks as storage.His house was a two story plus basement.He had to get a couple of beams,put the 4 tanks right beside each other as a sandwich.Put a beam on each side in the middle and cabled them together.The head pressure was making them bulge.They lasted about 8 yrs till they started to leak.Now he has no wood fired boiler.


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## sardo_67 (Aug 28, 2018)

well god damn, noted.

a member here still has his two 500 gal propane tanks hes selling, i texted him and will be picking them up this weekend.

since my basement isn't massive and i can't even fit the tank in i will cut them down to about 6ft then stand up vertical, make legs and also bolt them to the wall.  after they"re plumbed in i'll build the insulation box around them.

so i am guessing i will have 700-800 gallons of water storage for what is basically a 1,000sq foot house with mostly no wall insulation and 24x24 insulated 2 car garage.  it's only my GF and i in the house so we don't use the 2nd floor for anything more than storage so heating it is not a concern for me.  mostly will be learning my boiler and seeing what happens.


so with the propane tanks i don't have to worry  about rust since they are much thicker?


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## nhtreehouse (Aug 29, 2018)

sardo_67 said:


> so with the propane tanks i don't have to worry about rust since they are much thicker?



Yes. My 1000 gallon tank is 5/16" thick on the cylinder and 1/4" thick on the heads. It should weigh in at around 1800 lbs. In comparison, oil tanks are measured in gauge, not inches. I'm sure someone here knows how thick they are, but a guess would be 14 gauge. That's a bit over 1/16". Pressure is no problem with propane tanks as they are originally built for something like 250 PSI. Another important fact is that with a propane tank you can run the system pressurized without a heat exchanger, as others have commented on here.

Other members have cut propane tanks down and used multiple tanks for tight locations. It works.

I put together a simple spreadsheet to calculate tank volume. Using that tool, I come up with about 277 gallons per tank if you start with a 500 gallon tank which is typically 37" in diameter, and cut it down to 6' length overall. That assumes the heads/ends are hemispheres which is not always the case. Your mileage may vary here. Happy to share the spreadsheet - just PM me.


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## maple1 (Aug 29, 2018)

*so with the propane tanks i don't have to worry about rust since they are much thicker?*

Well, partly. Most of the rust worry goes away by having things pressurized - no fresh air in the water to make rust. And LP tanks allow for pressurized. But if you are cutting & welding them, you want to be very careful how you do it. They are designed the way they are for the pressure, so changing that by reconfiguring the tank itself can change their pressure handling capabilities. That plus making sure the new welds themsleves can stand the pressure without leaking. I had bungs welded on mine by a pro shop and even they had to touch them up in spots due to pinholes in the welds. Partly my fault for accidentally getting cast fittings.


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## peakbagger (Aug 29, 2018)

Your question raises a red flag. There are two types of storage, pressurized and unpressurized. With pressurized you heat up a tank of water through a heat exchanger and then you need a heat exchanger (maybe the same one) to get the heat back into the radiators. Its decidedly more complicated.The reason you need the heat exchangers is that most wood, gas and oil heaters are cast iron with iron pipes. If you just circulated the water in the boiler to the tank without a heat exchanger, oxygen would get into the boiler water and rot the boiler out quickly. A pressurized system uses a closed tank that can be operated at the boiler pressure with no need to vent oxygen into the system. Its simpler to hook up but the trade off is you ned a tank capable of being pressurized with the right connections. A propane tank when built did  have the pressure rating but not the right connections. This means that you need to have the right connections welded onto the tank. Unless the welder and his company has a special certification, the tank loses its official pressure rating. The typical reason the tank is available to begin with is its age or condition means that the original owner did not want to re-certify it or it was not able to be re-certified.

Some states like Mass technically require that any pressurized tank installed have a valid certification, many do not. The risk for a tank full of water failing is very low compared to one full of propane or air. Water cant be compressed so when the tank fails it most likely leaks all over the floor. When a tank full of propane or air fails it can explode and throw shrapnel around. Therefore many folks who heat with wood and use a modified propane tank accept the risk from a leak and go pressurized.

At this point I would suggest you do a lot of research before buying anything. Plenty of folks are willing to help you decide but ultimately if you are DIYing it you need to understand the basics or you will get into trouble.


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## sardo_67 (Aug 29, 2018)

yes i am doing a pressurized system, much simpler, easier and cheaper than building the heat exchanger and what not.  

i have been a production welder for a few years before my current job and will be pressure testing these before i install them, it's just hot water, not working on 4,000PSI natural gas transfer lines here, ill put about 50psi into the tank then check all the welds with some soapy water for bubbles.  

my issue is i have an MB55 which is 140,000BTU for my house and garage that only add up to about 1500sq feet of living space so i really need storage or the boiler will be choked down very low and clog up pretty quick.  then add in the horrible efficiency which won't help either.  

i've been reading a lot on here over the past year+ and learned a lot, just things didn't work out last year as i took on too many things at once, now i am in a much better situation both time and finance wise to finally finish this project.


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## sardo_67 (Sep 7, 2018)

ok one thing i forgot to ask about is how to insulate these?

build a box around them?

spray foam?

blankets of some kind?


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## maple1 (Sep 7, 2018)

I did a simple box.


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## sardo_67 (Sep 21, 2018)

going to start cutting and welding on my tanks, however i am not 100% sure how i am going to route the water flow and plumbing.

simply put should i go with option 1 or two?
i know there is a lot more in the system however i just made it extra simplified for conversation sake


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## salecker (Sep 22, 2018)

sardo_67 said:


> going to start cutting and welding on my tanks, however i am not 100% sure how i am going to route the water flow and plumbing.
> 
> simply put should i go with option 1 or two?
> i know there is a lot more in the system however i just made it extra simplified for conversation sake


Neither.
My system was designed by the guy i bought the boiler from,he is supposed to be one of the best in the Territory of 40000 people.
My sytem feeds into the top of tank 1 with 11/2 pipe with a reducing tee to the top of tank 2 with 11/4.
 Then the return comes out of the bottom of tank 1 with 11/4 and upsizing to 11/2 at the tee from tank 2 which is 11/2.This a reverse of the input plumbing. My tanks balance equal both charging and discharging.


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## sardo_67 (Sep 22, 2018)

salecker said:


> Neither.
> My system was designed by the guy i bought the boiler from,he is supposed to be one of the best in the Territory of 40000 people.
> My sytem feeds into the top of tank 1 with 11/2 pipe with a reducing tee to the top of tank 2 with 11/4.
> Then the return comes out of the bottom of tank 1 with 11/4 and upsizing to 11/2 at the tee from tank 2 which is 11/2.This a reverse of the input plumbing. My tanks balance equal both charging and discharging.



ok so how  are they organized though, one feeds into the other or both equal?

i am going to use the HS tarm print here as my basic guide but i am not 100% sure about all of it.  like as you mentioned what size to use for the pipes and fittings or where to place them on the tanks.

(see wood plumbing example #4)


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## salecker (Sep 23, 2018)

sardo_67 said:


> ok so how  are they organized though, one feeds into the other or both equal?
> 
> i am going to use the HS tarm print here as my basic guide but i am not 100% sure about all of it.  like as you mentioned what size to use for the pipes and fittings or where to place them on the tanks.
> 
> (see wood plumbing example #4)


They both feed equal in the top and return in the bottom.They are standing. the flows to top is reversed from the flows from bottom bottom. 
top feed from boiler is 11/2" pipe then a reducing tee with 11/2" feed going into tank 1 and 11/4" into tank 2
return feed to boiler is 11/2" pipe as well,comes out of tank 1 with 11/4" then into a a tee which picks up tank 2 with 11/2"pipe.
 The reversing of which tank is first in line is what helps the tanks charge even.
 I was told to build a double check valve into the return line as well,not sure what it does.Sometimes i look at it and think that it may have been a joke on me,seeing i didn't know anything about hydronic heating when i built the system.


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## maple1 (Sep 23, 2018)

AKA 'reverse return'.


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## sardo_67 (Sep 24, 2018)

Salecker1 do you have your diagram still?


Also since my tank is open should I put any baffles or anything inside it?


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## salecker (Sep 24, 2018)

sardo_67 said:


> Salecker1 do you have your diagram still?
> 
> 
> Also since my tank is open should I put any baffles or anything inside it?


My diagram was in my head.
We layed out all the fittings in the shop where i bought everything.Started at the boiler hot side and built it on the floor till everything was accounted for.Then he put everything in 2 box's,one copper and one threaded black iron.
 I got home and emptied out the box's of fittings and though what did i get my self into. Remember that i had zero experience with hydronic heating.But i ended up doing the same thing on the boiler room floor built the system with fittings,then all i had to do was measure pipe,clean,grab a fitting clean and solder,or prep the threads for hemp and install.
 And no you don't need any baffles.Make sure you have enough ports for what you want.I have 3 wells in my tanks for temps,i only used 2 so far top and bottom.Inlet at top outlet on bottom.I kind of wish i had put a big port near the bottom for a big electric heating element,just in case i have electricity to burn from a solar installation,but i would rather sell it to the grid if that happens,wood is free.


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## sardo_67 (Sep 28, 2018)

how many bungs should i weld into my tanks and where do i need them located?

90* straight in on the cylander part or up higher/lower on the cap part?


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## maple1 (Sep 28, 2018)

Generally speaking- as few as possible and as high and low as they will go.


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## warno (Sep 29, 2018)

You can put your ports anywhere you want but like maple said generally as high and as low as possible. I put my supply header about center of the head on my top tank. Keep in mind my tanks are horizontal. Only reason I centered it was because I use a portion of my top tank as expansion as well. 

Don't be scared to put the ports directly into the heads, that's the strongest part of the tank anyway.


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## sardo_67 (Sep 29, 2018)

ok that is what i was thinking but i wanted to make sure, as for the bottom one i'll probably put that one up a i little so any sediment that collects on the bottom of the tanks won't get sucked thru the system.

if work lets up this weekend i plan on welding at least one of the up


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## sardo_67 (Oct 13, 2018)

Cut and welded both back up, doing a leak test and re-welding a few sections with pin holes.  


Will be talking with Chris at Tarm Monday to go over a system and buy all the needed parts.


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## sardo_67 (Oct 22, 2018)

1-1/2" bungs welded in top and bottom, used some pieces i had laying around as a jig to make sure i welded them in and won't have any alignment issues.

for the bottom feed i will be using a 45* street elbow into a 1-1/2" 90* with 3/4 bung for the boiler drain so i'll be able to empty them if i ever need to in the future, last pic shows a mock up of what i will have as i was playing around with possible combo ideas.  according to Chris at HS Tarm in NH i will have 1-1/2" connecting the tanks then T off in the center to 1-1/4" pipe for the rest of the system to wood/oil boilers and the house zones.


later this week i will be getting my friend L48 to pick up and lower them into my basement where i can start plumbing once the Tarm plumbing parts and controls get here.


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## warno (Oct 22, 2018)

Looks like it's coming together. You plan on running that this year?


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## sardo_67 (Oct 22, 2018)

haha yea, i mean it better be up and running in a week or so, i'm already burning oil that i don't want to pay for


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## salecker (Oct 23, 2018)

Do you have any temperature wells to monitor your water temps in your storage?
 And are you doing a reverse loop to charge/draw from them?


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## sardo_67 (Oct 23, 2018)

salecker said:


> Do you have any temperature wells to monitor your water temps in your storage?
> And are you doing a reverse loop to charge/draw from them?



i was logging on here now to ask about that, i have 3/4" NPT bungs i will weld in at the top and bottom, for temp sensors, should i do pressure as well?

my idea was to put remote sensors in the tank then have a monitor i can see all 4 on since i will have these insulated and don't want to cut holes in them to see the gauges.   will something like this work?  if i run these type of gauges what is the simplest way to monitor them?   https://www.amazon.com/dp/B079BP9HCJ/?tag=hearthamazon-20

other idea was to put wells into the bungs so i can change sensors out later if needed without making a mess, good idea or over thinking it? https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0087VJX9I/?tag=hearthamazon-20


i was on google and it sent me to amazon so i'm not set on any one mfgr or what ever, just the concept and preferaby not having to spend a few hundred, original idea was to get cheaper NAPA type analogue temp gauges for cars and run 4 of those.


i am going off of the Tarm example and how chris at Tarm said to plumb it, if you go up and look at post #34 the info is there


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## maple1 (Oct 23, 2018)

I wouldn't bother with wells or sensor bungs. More chance of leakage. I just used surface mount temp sensors, under my layer of FG insulation. If spray foaming I would still do that but stick a small tin can or something on the surface of the tank before spraying that the sensor can live in and still touch the tank surface. Or just spray & scrape a small area off after for the sensor to go on.


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## sardo_67 (Oct 23, 2018)

i'm just using foam sheets and 2x4s to frame up a simple box around them, nothing too crazy.

surface mounted sensors will work to show the temp difference?


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## warno (Oct 23, 2018)

Yes, surface mount probes for temp readings. Buy the cheapo ones from Ebay and roll with it. I think I have about 100 bucks in all of this.


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## sardo_67 (Oct 24, 2018)

Zoro box showed up today and some supply house parts too. Finalized my cold return set up.  Left tank will be the same but I’ll have a union fitting in there somewhere.  

1-1/2” tank to tank then 1-1/4” going up.  

3/4” boiler drain on the 90 so if I need to drain these I won’t have an issue.  Another fitting I have for up higher is a 3/4 npt bung where I’ll attach the air compressor QD, then just add pressure to the tank with a hose connected to the boiler drain........  empty tank.


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## maple1 (Oct 24, 2018)

*where I’ll attach the air compressor QD, then just add pressure to the tank *

What do you mean there? Air compressor?


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## sardo_67 (Oct 24, 2018)

maple1 said:


> *where I’ll attach the air compressor QD, then just add pressure to the tank *
> 
> What do you mean there? Air compressor?



Check out my post #43, you can see the blue air line.  I am talking about if I ever have to drain the tank I can start pumping air into it to force out the water.


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## Bad LP (Oct 24, 2018)

sardo_67 said:


> Check out my post #43, you can see the blue air line.  I am talking about if I ever have to drain the tank I can start pumping air into it to force out the water.


Gravity not good enough?


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## maple1 (Oct 24, 2018)

I have never heard of anyone doing that before on a boiler or tank or it even being a consideration.

Don't think that needs a separate or special fitting or anything if you did want to do it - you could just thread an air fitting into a pipe thread somewhere. But hooking an air compressor up to a heating system could make something go *sputz* that you don't want to.


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## sardo_67 (Oct 24, 2018)

Bad LP said:


> Gravity not good enough?



the tanks are in the basement and i would prefer to dump the water directly outside rather than into buckets to bring up and outside.  plus i wouldn't be able to drain the last foot or so out of them as the drain is about 3" off the ground so no way to get a bucket under it.



maple1 said:


> I have never heard of anyone doing that before on a boiler or tank or it even being a consideration.
> 
> Don't think that needs a separate or special fitting or anything if you did want to do it - you could just thread an air fitting into a pipe thread somewhere. But hooking an air compressor up to a heating system could make something go *sputz* that you don't want to.



yes that's what the ball valves are for, i am not planning on doing this once a week, just planning ahead for if i ever need to empty a tank.  work smarter not harder


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## maple1 (Oct 24, 2018)

Hook a small pump to the outlet?


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## salecker (Oct 24, 2018)

I didn't have to add any bungs to my tanks for temp wells.I used the same wells as used for aquastates that thread in.I used the same gauges as Warno used from eBay.


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## sardo_67 (Oct 24, 2018)

my tanks don't have any bungs in useful locations since i cut and welded them back together.  i just figured i needed more bungs for sensors but i guess i don't, not complaining since less work and less welding for me


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## warno (Oct 24, 2018)

I've used air pressure to force water from my tanks before.  But if you do that be sure everything but the tanks are valves off. My tank has a 30 psi pop off in it so I could only use a small amount of air. If you're driving water up and out of your basement I'd probably just fashion a bulkhead fitting into a 5 gallon bucket and put a pump in it. Then pump it out. 

But on your temp sensors just go with surface mount. No need to poke more holes in your tanks. For $10ish a piece sensors from China you can't go wrong.


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## sardo_67 (Dec 2, 2018)

Finally had time off work and other things to get some major progress.  

Tom suggested putting a nice big clean 4x8 sheet of plywood on the wall so I can layout all the plumbing neatly and organized.  Did that 2 weeks ago, talked with Chris AF HS Tarm, mapped out some prints and ordered parts online.  

I’m not 100% on how to tie the tanks in yet, just using some random pipes I have laying around to mock up ideas.  Will finalize it tomorrow with my plumber and buy more at the local HD.  

I may do a 180* on the boiler for better fit and piping install.  Anyone think running the exhaust pipe over the boiler a little would be a bad thing?  I am going to use double wall SS pipe that gives me 6” min space from combustibles, however I should be well over 13” anyway.


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## sardo_67 (Dec 2, 2018)

All mapped out, just need to order more fittings then start plumbing.


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## sardo_67 (Dec 5, 2018)

Parts came in so I did a quick mock up on the floor before work while I waited for the paint to dry.

Plumber friend said I had to paint it platinum grey since that’s what the pros do.  ‍


i added labels and color to the pic so does this make sense?
i will be adding valves as needed as well as the heat exchange for the garage zone and radiant floor heating manifolds


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## coolidge (Dec 6, 2018)

I may do a 180* on the boiler for better fit and piping install. Anyone think running the exhaust pipe over the boiler a little would be a bad thing?

Keep in mind your heat exchanger will need to be cleaned, leave yourself enough room with stack pipe.


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## sardo_67 (Dec 6, 2018)

coolidge said:


> I may do a 180* on the boiler for better fit and piping install. Anyone think running the exhaust pipe over the boiler a little would be a bad thing?
> 
> Keep in mind your heat exchanger will need to be cleaned, l*eave yourself enough room with stack pipe*.



what do you mean?

that isn't the actual 1-1 model of what i am doing, just mock up for layout only, once i get the other stuff on the wall i'lll see where it mounts up and the best place to put it.  

i had the boiler flipped and it doesn't leave me much room, i've tried it in 3 positions and this is the best one for my limited space


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## sardo_67 (Dec 10, 2018)

i think i have settled on my final layout

as for the yellow dot, do i need to put a valve of some kind there to restrict flow so with the circ is on and zones are open the hot water flows thru the zones instead of in a loop in the manifold?


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## TCaldwell (Dec 10, 2018)

Tom, I think you are good without it, if circs on and all zones are open, you’ll have the same flow on the returns, basically nullifying any differential pressure. However a ball valve is always handy for purging


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## sardo_67 (Dec 17, 2018)

i am going to add in a magnetic filter unit, where is the best place in my system to put that?  
. 
My initial instinct is to put that on the exit from the storage tanks as i am sure that is where the most metal particulate is.  or am i wrong?


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## TCaldwell (Dec 17, 2018)

I’d think anywhere along the supply chain is good, mine is at the beginning of the zone supply manifold.


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## maple1 (Dec 18, 2018)

I would think somewhere upstream of your circ(s)? Better to keep whatever it would catch out of your circ guts.


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## sardo_67 (Dec 29, 2018)

Almost ready to get it going on the oil boiler to test it all out.  Working on figuring out the wiring and controls tomorrow.  

Radiant floor Pex will get run soon.


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## TCaldwell (Dec 29, 2018)

Nice work, it’s a good stretch of relatively warm weather to tie it together.


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## warno (Dec 29, 2018)

I think you need to rotate your terminal box on your circ to the top. I can't remember for sure but check the owner's manual. I believe it says to have it on top.


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## TCaldwell (Dec 29, 2018)

I missed seeing that, your correct, keep the water out of the electronics!


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## sardo_67 (Jan 2, 2019)

Circ electric boxes have been rotated.   Thanks guys.


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## sardo_67 (Jul 25, 2020)

With work slowing down and having some time I finally got over to my friends shop to get working on the new to me boiler.
the air mover next to it works great at pulling all the dust away from me and blowing it out the door.  

now I just need to find someone who can install it.


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