# Wood off ground-Board of Health



## anderzoo (Dec 5, 2009)

We have been burning for years, and we always stack our split  wood on cement blocks and 2x4's or 4x4's-  about 10" -12" off ground... all neatly stacked... (our unsplit wood remains on ground until split in the back)    We just had an unwelcome visitor- the Board of Heath....  They are telling us all wood must be stacked at least 18" off ground- 2 cement blocks and 2x4....  To me, that is ridiculous and dangerous...  Currently, we have over 15 cords of wood stacked with more unsplit wood on ground...   We are willing to move unsplit wood off ground-10"-12"... but to restack all the split wood in the middle of winter???????????   the actual ordinance reads "building materials must be stacked 18" off ground"- Board of Health insists that building materials and firewood are one in the same...  Has anyone ever faced this dilemma???


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## Backwoods Savage (Dec 5, 2009)

Welcome to the forum anderzoo.


I would ask to see documentation on their claim of firewood being a building material. Somebody's word, even if an inspector still has to be questioned. Perhaps he has misinterpreted something.

I would also call Bull on it and not follow the ordinance. Go to a town hall meeting and object.


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## Bobbin (Dec 5, 2009)

I think that's a silly misinterpretation of a regulation.   Is the inspector young or new to the position?

I also wonder if someone (neighbor?) objected to seeing stacked firewood and has complained about it.  I hate to think that way, but there are plenty of people out there who think firewood is "messy" or unsightly or poses a threat because it may harbor vermin.  

I would be unwilling to restack 15 cord of wood that has already been processed, too, unless faced with relentless bureaucracy and a hefty fine.  I would most certainly challenge the order to restack with quiet logic and in a spirit of cooperation.


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## gzecc (Dec 5, 2009)

Building material?  What can you build with it?


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## SpeakEasy (Dec 5, 2009)

gzecc said:
			
		

> Building material?  What can you build with it?



.... ummmmm...

a fire?

-Speak


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## smokinj (Dec 5, 2009)

anderzoo said:
			
		

> We have been burning for years, and we always stack our split  wood on cement blocks and 2x4's or 4x4's-  about 10" -12" off ground... all neatly stacked... (our unsplit wood remains on ground until split in the back)    We just had an unwelcome visitor- the Board of Heath....  They are telling us all wood must be stacked at least 18" off ground- 2 cement blocks and 2x4....  To me, that is ridiculous and dangerous...  Currently, we have over 15 cords of wood stacked with more unsplit wood on ground...   We are willing to move unsplit wood off ground-10"-12"... but to restack all the split wood in the middle of winter???????????   the actual ordinance reads "building materials must be stacked 18" off ground"- Board of Health insists that building materials and firewood are one in the same...  Has anyone ever faced this dilemma???



What part of Indiana are you in?


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## Cowboy Billy (Dec 5, 2009)

Well where my Dad lives Taylor MI. The code is that the piles have to start 18" from the ground. They say its to keep rats from living under them. But I think its just to make it harder to store wood.

Billy


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## gzecc (Dec 5, 2009)

If anything it should be classified as fuel. Not building material.


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## golfandwoodnut (Dec 5, 2009)

I say it BS.  It even sounds too high for building material, and as you say a safety hazard of falling on someone.  I would challenge it and say where does it say firewood is a building material?


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## JustWood (Dec 5, 2009)

Someone don't like your wood pile. They don't just show up unless they're called.
I woodn't worry about it.
They have better things to do besides raz you bout your wood pile.


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## JerseyWreckDiver (Dec 5, 2009)

I agree with many of the others posters, 

1) Somebody called them and complained...

2) Firewood is classified as a heating fuel not a building material.

Tell him to show you in the building codes specifically where it defines firewood as a building material. He won't be able to. 

If you go to your Twp. website there should be a link to the building dept. and further links that should lead to building codes adopted by your Twp. and most towns these days even have a copy of the building & residential codes accessible online. Building materials here are defined by the International Building Code published by the ICC. These have been adopted by most, but not all states now. The only thing he could possibly find is logs used for construction, if you have full length logs anywhere he could get you on that, otherwise make him show you code and verse where it says firewood is a building material.

In the end, where health issues are concerned, he is, unfortunately (since he sounds like a bufoon), the Athority Having Jurisdiction. Be cooperative and if you must, agree that any_ future_ wood brought onto the property and stacked will be stacked off the ground.

If need be, you could call the state Department of Community Affairs. At least here in NJ, they regulate the building officials and govern interpretation/enforcement  of the codes.


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## red450 (Dec 5, 2009)

As a fellow Hoosier, I agree, it's BS.   There are wood piles all over that aren't that far off the ground.  Not a single one in my neighborhood is more than a 12".


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## Bigg_Redd (Dec 5, 2009)

anderzoo said:
			
		

> We have been burning for years, and we always stack our split  wood on cement blocks and 2x4's or 4x4's-  about 10" -12" off ground... all neatly stacked... (our unsplit wood remains on ground until split in the back)    We just had an unwelcome visitor- the Board of Heath....  They are telling us all wood must be stacked at least 18" off ground- 2 cement blocks and 2x4....  To me, that is ridiculous and dangerous...  Currently, we have over 15 cords of wood stacked with more unsplit wood on ground...   We are willing to move unsplit wood off ground-10"-12"... but to restack all the split wood in the middle of winter???????????   the actual ordinance reads "building materials must be stacked 18" off ground"- Board of Health insists that building materials and firewood are one in the same...  Has anyone ever faced this dilemma???




Do not touch your stacks.

Tell that @$$clown to show you the law/policy/regulation.  I bet anything it either does not exist, it is open to interpretation, or it is simply misunderstood by that particular jerkweasel.


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## sapratt (Dec 5, 2009)

Next time he stops by ask him if he wants to live under those wood stacks.  Then when he says no,  Tell him
I don't think any animal wants to live under there either.


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## logjammed (Dec 5, 2009)

check any town owned property and complain about any downed building material, what the @#$%^???


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## andybaker (Dec 5, 2009)

Last winter or the one before, Toledo's mayor got on the inspectors to enforce codes and orinances and ticket people.  So, in a city of 200,000 people, an inspector shows up at a little old ladies house, tells them to get their wood 18" off the ground or they'll receive a ticket.  The local radio media got wind of it made a big deal about how rediculous that was.  Ends up, a local youth group from a church came out and restacked it for her.  They even bought the materials to build the new wood racks.  Also, in Toledo, this last summer, (you'll laugh) another inspector was going through the old laws on the books and found a real old law that she thought she could make the city a bunch of money on.  Years ago when cars were first coming out the tire rubber wasn't near as good as todays technology.  When a car was parked on stones they thought that might hurt the tires and cause them to blow while driving creating a hazard for any bystanders.  This inspector starts go to people houses and giving them $25 tickets for parking their car in their own driveway.  She even made up and printed her own tickets.  

I would challenge that inspector straight up.  They like to interpret and then enforce that way.  If they're not challenged they will become rogue.  I've had to deal with Health Inspectors over the years and sometimes you've got to stand up.  Respect them but be firm, they have a job to do, but they don't like too much fight back too much if they're wrong.

Good Luck


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## sapratt (Dec 5, 2009)

Sometimes I think those inspectors have to much time on there hands.   Perrysburg township did something like that a few years ago.  They were writing citations
for buildings being to close to the road.  Well after someone started digging around, comes to find out those buildings were put in before the ordanance was passed.


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## myzamboni (Dec 5, 2009)

Inspectors are not enforcement officers.


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## Nic36 (Dec 6, 2009)

All the ones that said someone complained about you is probably correct.

I'm one of those people that knock on your door, but I don't work for the health department. Typically, most people will call their local health department first when they want to complain about something. They are familiar with that agency and it is always easy to come up with an excuse that the neighbor is contributing to the growth of mosquitoes, rats, snakes or has a sewage problem due to unsightly firewood all over the place. The complaint is usually weak and they will usually say enough "buzzwords" until the inspector is obligated to come out and look around. I've heard it all. They usually call us after the call to the health department is unfruitful. 

I wouldn't worry about it. If you hear from them again, make them cite you the specific rule/regulation that requires the firewood to be stacked in that manner. You don't have to be a jerk, but as someone said, be firm and stand your ground. Don't allow them to interpret the regulation either. it is what it is. If the reg only says building materials, then they don't have a leg to stand on.

Not to be harsh, but from your description, the inspector sounded to be young and dumb......or incompetent. I usually try to help the person I go see. After all, the goal is trying to get them in compliance with the regulations. But, this sounds like total BS, but I'm in Alabama, so I don't know the specific regs up there. I doubt it has any merit though.

Don't be surprised if you see an inspector from another agency. If the complainer is persistent and determined, he/she will call other agencies in hopes of accomplishing their goal.


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## flyingcow (Dec 6, 2009)

interchangabLEE said:
			
		

> Someone don't like your wood pile. They don't just show up unless they're called.
> I woodn't worry about it.
> They have better things to do besides raz you bout your wood pile.



We have a winner!


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## StackedLumber (Dec 6, 2009)

Sounds about as dumb as an ordinance we have here that says you can't burn planed "building materials".  That's right you can't burn a plain ole' 2x4 in a wood burner or a camp fire or a fireplace.  if the bark is off it and it's been planed then it can't be burned legally.  

We've run into Health Dept. people on occasion.  Tried to be fair and listen-asked them to show us in the manuals where it said we had to do what they wanted-their answer was that it was a "matter of interpretation".  That's when they were shown the door and haven't had a problem since.  Sign of the times, government is hurtin for money, so they'll get it however they can.


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## Tony H (Dec 6, 2009)

flyingcow said:
			
		

> interchangabLEE said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Exactly what I would have said two weeks ago before talking with my nephew who is on an internship with the local Police dept. 
Turns out this past summer the code compliance dept decided to hire several college kids give them a digital camera and a list of codes to check for. They were out measuring grass looking for wood piles junk cars trash ect. and fined up quite a little profit for the city. I guess it's a new trend to try and bring in some extra cash. One person I know showed me the letter for tree and brush in the down in the back yard and the citation gave her 3 days to clean it up or up to 10,000 a day fine. Talk about crazy! I still think it had to be a typo and should have been 100.00 or even 1,000.00 but 10,000.00 for a tree cleanup .  

Back to the 18" off the ground building material deal .One idea is to drive around town and take pictures and addresses of building material stored on the ground looking for any city owned properties and large contractors sites. There was a local fellow here who got crap about his dumpster location and went and found like a dozen in violation on city properties and the local paper was happy to write a story. The city dropped all fines and charges.


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## quads (Dec 6, 2009)

As goofy as some of the rules and ordinances are out in the country, it's posts like this that make me glad I live far from the city.


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## flyingcow (Dec 6, 2009)

quads said:
			
		

> As goofy as some of the rules and ordinances are out in the country, it's posts like this that make me glad I live far from the city.



Ditto. Whats a "city"? For that matter, whats a "code officer"?   The closest thing I've seen is a local guy that inspected septic system/leach field before we buried it. Never called him a code officer, just called him Bill, and handed him a beer. One drawback to be out in the country, is if the house catches fire, get everyone out and make sure you grab a bag of marshmallows. Oh yeah, grab a few beers, cause Bill will be back with the volunteer fire dept. Might even show up driving the plow truck, if it's snowing hard.


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## Mmaul (Dec 6, 2009)

anderzoo what part of indiana do you live in? I deal with health inspectors all the time, pm me with what code number and name, he is quoteing and I will get with the health inspector that regulates us and let you know when he has to say about it. You can look up these codes under www.IN.gov. They might be able to tell you more online.


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## Danno77 (Dec 6, 2009)

just scanning through some indiana code I found this, so we can know how firewood is identified (fuel/building material, etc)



> IC 34-6-2-8
> "Agricultural product"
> Sec. 8. "Agricultural product", for purposes of IC 34-30-3, means a natural product of a farm, a nursery, a grove, an orchard, a vineyard, a garden, or an apiary. The term includes trees and firewood.
> As added by P.L.1-1998, SEC.1.



the code they are referring to isn't anything about health codes, but just something that might suggest a precedence of labeling of firewood as something other than a building material.  the code it is referring to, BTW, is interesting as it has to do with liability and injury in "gleaning an agricultural product"


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## Nonprophet (Dec 7, 2009)

I agree with others that one of your neighbors must have called in--though it's possible your city is cash-strapped and trying to raise money (translated: pick your pocket....).  15 stacked cords and more laying in piles is a lot of wood--especially for within city limits, so someone called probably because they thought it was "unsightly." Gotta love nosey neighbors........

Anyway, I also agree with others that they're probably just blowing hot air, and that there really isn't an ordinance that says that, though you'd be wise to check it out for yourself. 

If it ever came to enforcement I'd fight it and make them demonstrate that firewood stacked 6" of the ground is a health issue--which of course they won't be able to do..........


NP


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## Duetech (Dec 7, 2009)

My suggestion is ofcourse to disagree but find a lawyer who burns wood and who will be able to iterperet this ordinance and know exactly what to do about it. Waiting to face this down is not a good course if you are so inclined. Primarily if this kind of abuse of power can be visited on one person then the next is olnly a few steps away.


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## gzecc (Dec 7, 2009)

Show us a picture of your wood storage and stacking area.  We'll tell you if its a problem.


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## rdust (Dec 7, 2009)

gzecc said:
			
		

> Show us a picture of your wood storage and stacking area.  We'll tell you if its a problem.



x2!  

I can't believe they would make you re-stack wood that is already cinder block height, I'd tell them to pack sand.  I have 6 cords stacked that way and the rest are on pallets.  Is this a city lot or on acres?


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## anderzoo (Dec 7, 2009)

sorry so long getting back--- working on wood-lol.........  We are in Indianapolis-  We have 6 city lots- almost an acre..   Many people in our area burn and have wood stacks.. (some have more wood than us)...  Most only stack wood on pallets, but we are the only ones dealing with the Board of Health...  We have spoken with the supervisor, and she states that there is not any complaint against us.   That they came across the wood when they found our shed.  On our back 3 lots, we have an old shed/barn- and the Board of Health is telling us that these lots are considered vacant lots and we can't have any buildings on them-- so they want us to demolish our shed as well...  this shed was built in the 1950's- well before any of the ordinances were written... we have a hearing scheduled for the shed...

Anyway, after finding the shed - they entered our fenced in back yard while we were at work and found our wood! But the supervisor is still says that the wood must be 18" off ground-- and advises using 2 cinder blocks & 2X4  OR  can be on a cement slab not stacked.  We are hoping they will allow us to correct this in the spring...   and maybe at that time we can build a wood shed or a privacy fence with locks---lol......


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## rdust (Dec 7, 2009)

I would make sure to tell them if you see any wood not stacked 18 inches off the ground they would be hearing from you.  If they make all the wood burners angry you'll have a lot of people on your side.


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## Tony H (Dec 7, 2009)

I think cave had a good idea about finding a lawyer that burns wood and see what he can do. Once they see you might fight sometimes they back off if they know it's a weak case because after all it's about making money for the city not spending time and money on lawyers. You might also want to call your rep or alderman and see what they can do , maybe you will be lucky and find they also burn wood or have family that do .


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## Singed Eyebrows (Dec 7, 2009)

anderzoo said:
			
		

> We have been burning for years, and we always stack our split  wood on cement blocks and 2x4's or 4x4's-  about 10" -12" off ground... all neatly stacked... (our unsplit wood remains on ground until split in the back)    We just had an unwelcome visitor- the Board of Heath....  They are telling us all wood must be stacked at least 18" off ground- 2 cement blocks and 2x4....  To me, that is ridiculous and dangerous...  Currently, we have over 15 cords of wood stacked with more unsplit wood on ground...   We are willing to move unsplit wood off ground-10"-12"... but to restack all the split wood in the middle of winter???????????   the actual ordinance reads "building materials must be stacked 18" off ground"- Board of Health insists that building materials and firewood are one in the same...  Has anyone ever faced this dilemma???


 Tell me about it! This wood used to be on the ground, now it's 12" off the ground. This is because of "rats" in Milwaukee, I know, Randy


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## Wood Duck (Dec 7, 2009)

anderzoo said:
			
		

> But the supervisor is still says that the wood must be 18" off ground-- and advises using 2 cinder blocks & 2X4  OR  can be on a cement slab not stacked....



I still think you need to ask for the ordinance that says firewood has to be 18 inches off the ground. Where is firewood identified as a building material? This seems like a mis-interpretation of an ordinance by someone who probably hasn't read the ordinance. Read it and then you'll know what you're fighting.


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## firefighterjake (Dec 7, 2009)

quads said:
			
		

> As goofy as some of the rules and ordinances are out in the country, it's posts like this that make me glad I live far from the city.



I'm right with you on this one Quads.


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## firefighterjake (Dec 7, 2009)

anderzoo said:
			
		

> sorry so long getting back--- working on wood-lol.........  We are in Indianapolis-  We have 6 city lots- almost an acre..   Many people in our area burn and have wood stacks.. (some have more wood than us)...  Most only stack wood on pallets, but we are the only ones dealing with the Board of Health...  We have spoken with the supervisor, and she states that there is not any complaint against us.   That they came across the wood when they found our shed.  On our back 3 lots, we have an old shed/barn- and the Board of Health is telling us that these lots are considered vacant lots and we can't have any buildings on them-- so they want us to demolish our shed as well...  this shed was built in the 1950's- well before any of the ordinances were written... we have a hearing scheduled for the shed...
> 
> Anyway, after finding the shed - they entered our fenced in back yard while we were at work and found our wood! But the supervisor is still says that the wood must be 18" off ground-- and advises using 2 cinder blocks & 2X4  OR  can be on a cement slab not stacked.  We are hoping they will allow us to correct this in the spring...   and maybe at that time we can build a wood shed or a privacy fence with locks---lol......



This is so wrong on so many levels and would have me fuming.

Random thoughts:

-- I would think the shed would be grandfathered if it was built on the lot so long before the ordinance . . . I mean as long as there are no imminent threats to health (i.e. it's half rotten or falling down) or harboring a giant rat population.

-- Firewood is fuel . . . it is not a building material. I would challenge them to take a cord of your wood and attempt to build a shed with it . . . if they succeed congrats, they've just built you a shed which you can use to store your wood . . . if they fail (more likely) I would say their definition is flawed.

-- The wood needs to be up 18 inches so rats can't live underneath the wood? Good Gawd man . . . how big are the rats you guys have in Indiana? Are these rats mutated from nuclear waste or something? If so, I'm checking Indiana off my "States I Should Visit Before I Die" list.

-- Nic had some good advice. I would not be a jerk (one of the worse things to do . . . both with good inspectors -- i.e. the ones who attempt to educate and enforce codes that make sense and use commonsense realizing that in the real world things are not always black and white -- and the bad inspectors -- i.e. the ones who like the power and believe that they are the end-all and be-all.) When folks become hostile or are not polite, things ratchet up and what happens is folks tend to dig in their heels a bit more. Try speaking with a Supervisor . . . and if you have to go with the nuclear option you bring the issue up to the Town/City Manager, Councilors, Selectmen, etc. . . . he who complains long enough and loud enough with the most high level "friends" wins each and every time.


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## firefighterjake (Dec 7, 2009)

Singed Eyebrows said:
			
		

> anderzoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Giant rats in Wisconsin as well . . . good grief . . . was there a nuclear plant explosion that I didn't hear about that is causing giant, mutated wood-eating rats to spread like a plague of locusts?


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## quads (Dec 7, 2009)

Are rats really that common in the cities?  All my life, out here in the country, I have only seen a few rats under the old chicken coop.  Got rid of the chickens and the rats went away, even though the old chicken coop still stands empty and in disrepair, but no more rats.  If rats are that common in the city, then I would have to venture a guess that it is NOT firewood and the way it's stacked that's encouraging the rat problem.


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## prajna101 (Dec 8, 2009)

we have rats.  Our crawlspace is pretty tightly sealed and clean so no real problem with them there.  I have never had any in a wood stack but I dont have much wood either.  They do keep my compost bin well aerated! and I have to remember to turn any buckets in the yard upside down or they crawl in and cant get out, then die and stink and then get added to the compost pile for their friends to feed on.   They don't really bother me.  I see them dead on the road pretty often too.  I think Portland is pretty clean as far as cities go, so I would say most big cities have a healthy population of rats.  

todd


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