# Electricity question



## bears12th (Dec 15, 2008)

I know this may not be the right forum to post this in....sorry.  I also know this is an impossible question to answer, so I am just trying to get your ideas on this subject, than27ks.

I live in a 1060 sq ft home built in 1958.  I replaced all the attic insulation myself upon moving in, I have R-30 in the attic (more will be coming when money frees up, my wife and I are expecting our first kid in 7 weeks so don't know when this will happen, lol).  I have a partially finished basement (about 300 sq ft, for a total finished ranch style home of just about 1400 sq ft finished).  I have oil heat as well as my trusty Jotul Winterport that I have been using to heat my house totally so far, not a drop of oil used to this point.  Everything else in the house is electric.  Water heater, dishwasher, stove, fridge, lights, computer, tv, etc.  I am wondering, what is the typical electricity usage for a home such as mine, where everything is basically run on electricity except for heat?

I just got my CL&P;bill in the mail and have noticed I have lowered my usage by almost 30 percent, but my bill are just really high still.  They are not estimated bills, I pay by the month, so what I use I pay for, no payment plans.  I have hard numbers that the reader is taking off the meter and here they are....drumroll please.  I used 27 KwH a day on average from November 6th to Decmeber 10th.  Last year during this same billing period, before I put the stove in, I was using 37 KwH a day on average.  27 KwH a day is still quite high isn't it?  How does this match up to a home trying to conserve energy?  I am using appliances that are not old, but I am sure they are not energy star, they came with the house when we bought it almost three years ago.  I don't have the money to replace them right now, but my next goal for this house is to try and cut the KwH used per day by another 20 to 30 percent.  Is this realistic?

So here are my questions.

1)  What should I be striving for in terms of KwH when everything I run is electric except for my heat (25 KwH a day, 20 KwH a day???)
2)  What are some inexpensive ways to cut back without having to change appliances, I just don't have the cash for that right now.  We use lights very little, we do have  a laptop and my tv does stay plugged in (I have read from previous posts that this does do some draining).  Any other suggestions?
3)  Can I have some money to make this happen.  Alright, just kidding, but man since I found this website I have really enjoyed trying to figure out the next project in the house.  I feel as though you all have enabled the DIY inside of me to really go crazy about this crap, so you all are partially responsible for the lack of funds and the extreme amount of wood and wood/stove/fire/heat obsessions I now have.  

Thanks in advance all, hope you all have a great holiday...eh....Christmas.  Yeah, have a Merry Christmas, no need to be politically correct when posting on this thread.  

Thanks,

Bears.


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## edthedawg (Dec 15, 2008)

Really doesn't seem that unreasonable, but I'm going to try and remember tonight to look at our usage for a house & family that's 2X your size, with the only other notable change being our hotwater is oil-fired, not electric.

Northeast Utilities / CL&P;has a lot of good programs out there aimed at energy conservation - check their website.  I just attended a class called Money Matter$ and they handed out CFL bulbs (I'm assuming you already use those??), low-flow showerheads, weatherstripping, caulk, etc. plus talked about a bunch of cost-reduction programs they offer.


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## myzamboni (Dec 15, 2008)

unplug anything that is not in use as they are drawing 'standby power'.  Cell phone chargers when not charging,  computers when turned off (at least turn off the power strip), radios, TVs, toasters, etc.


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## pen (Dec 15, 2008)

do you have a well or are you on city water?  if you have a well, then sometime electric bills can get unexpectedly high if there is problems with the pump or the pressure tank.

do you have a sand mound septic with grinder pump or a grinder pump for sewer?  If so are you sure the grinder pump is cycling and not running constantly?

Do you have an old freezer or fridge in the house that might not be cycling correctly?

Do you have a sump pump in the basement that is running?

Have your neighbors inconspiciously buried a 6 ga wire from thier house to yours and are stealing your electric without you knowing?

A few suggestions of things to consider.

pen


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## BJ64 (Dec 15, 2008)

OK the objective in this case is to save on the electric bill.  Since the stove is doing the heating and assuming you can get the wood on the cheap, the attic insulation is good for the time being.

The big difference between this year's and last year's bill is the cost per kw.  The base rate per kw may be the same but many states allowed the utilities a floating fuel cost adjustment instead of a permanate rate adjustment.  Much of this fuel for the utilities was purchased on the futures market at a higher price than what the current spot price is now.  For that reason do not expect the fuel cost adjustment to go down for at least another month or two.  After that it should drop quite a bit.

For now try to insulate that Hot Water tank (I bet you already figured that out).  BGreen has some data on that idea that is quite convincing.  In any case, that will save you in the winter when that thing is bleeding heat and next summer when the water tank gets into an air temp duel with the AC. 

The new light bulbs are supposed to save a lot but I have not noticed a big dent in my bill yet.   

I would say that wrapping the hot water tank is the best return for the money right now.  Figure the household will be using more hot water due to the future 2009 tax deduction - Congratulations on that! - I would focus on that device.


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## begreen (Dec 15, 2008)

Moved to green room to keep topics hearth related.


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## colebrookman (Dec 15, 2008)

We use about 12KWh/day this time of year. Do have propane for stove though.  To save, turn down water heater to 120* max.  Wash dishes by hand, keep hot water to a minimum.  Use microwave when possible and wash fabrics in cold water.  Use small oven and gradually change light bulbs to energy saver.  Check your electric supplier for deals.  Just some quick ideas.  Good luck with the new baby.
Ed


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## SteveT (Dec 15, 2008)

1. See if CL&P;will do a free energy audit (many utilities do) and make changes they recommend.

2. Switch to compact fluorescent light bulbs.

3. Consider putting lights on a motion detector. This works very well for areas like basements where you always need light when entering and it eliminates leaving the light on. Far less valuable where light isn't always needed (like any above ground room with good natural light) as it will turn the light on even if not needed).

4. Lower the water heater thermostat. You'll still be able to get the same temperature at the tap by changing the hot/cold water ratio but will have less standby losses.

EDIT: LOOKS LIKE COLEBROOKMAN HAD BASICALLY THE SAME IDEAS AND BEAT ME TO THE POST...


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## jdemaris (Dec 15, 2008)

bears12th said:
			
		

> 1)  What should I be striving for in terms of KwH when everything I run is electric except for my heat (25 KwH a day, 20 KwH a day???)



Before we installed a solar electric system, we did all we could to get our electrical useage down.   Besides our farmhouse, I also have a barn, workshop, etc.   So, I run some power tools now and then, electric welder once in awhile, etc.   When we started our monthly useage was 600 - 700 KWh per month.  Then, I removed the electric hot water heater and clothes dryer, installed all CFL lights, removed many small phantom loads from full time AC-DC power supplies that were all over our house,  changed our freezer and fridge, etc.   Whittled it down to 260 KWh per month.   Gets higher in the winter when the wood furance is going due to the electric hot-air blower running almost 24 hours a day.  When I get around to it, I'm going to eliminate the 220 volt deep-well pump, but not everybody has that option.

Don't be fooled by claims of efficiency gains with new appliances - much is hype.  Check closely before you spend money.  You might have some fun with a little plug-in kilowatt meter. It might expose some loads you weren't aware of.


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## Highbeam (Dec 16, 2008)

First think I would do in the weeks before baby (WBB) is to get that kill-a-watt so that you can investigate 110 volt loads. 

Check the fridge with the meter. I have an older fridge and by using the Killawatt I was able to conclude that spending 1000$ on a new fridge had an extremely long payback period. If it breaks then get the Estar model, same with all appliances. 

Check the TV/computers for phantom loads. I also concluded that the phantom loads were extremely low despite much excitement about them being awful. 

I also heat 100% with wood and have concluded that the large majority of my electrical consumption was from the water heater. Nothing else is running. Well, I do have a large hot tub with a 60 amp 220 volt service. The tub, hot water, and lights burn up 1000 KwH per month on average, right near your 30 per day.

I have two very young girls and my wife in a 1700 SF rambler from the 1963. Only the one fridge and old fashioned CRT televisions. All CFLs.


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## stockdoct (Dec 16, 2008)

I'm an electricity pig.

I have a home that's 2400 sq ft, 2 teenagers,  electricity powering my cooking stove and oven, my washer/dryer, my space heaters that my kids love to use in the winter, and my summer air-conditioning.  I just ran the numbers for the past 2 years, and I'm averaging 1500 kWh per month.

All the advice you've received here is excellent.   If I could add anything, I'd  just try to think "big money" vs "chump change" to start out with, and then fine tun it from there.  The big money is in air conditioning, and anything that generates heat.   Electric stoves and ovens, space heaters, curling irons and blow dryers, space heaters, those are the big money hogs.  I can run a blower fan for 24 hours for the same electricity I can run a space heater for 15 minutes.       Lightbulbs are "chump change".

This is my plan --- I just realized my clothes dryer vents into the basement, not outdoors --- yes, probably against code --- but it has been venting that way for the past 15 years, safely.  Great for adding heat to the house 
in the winter, but horrible in the summer, it heats huge heat and humidity to my home just so I can waste air conditioning to cool it back down!     Today I bought a $15 dryer vent kit to vent my dryer (in the summer) to the outdoors.  The other thing I did today was to order hanging window shades to keep the hot summer sun from heating our house in the summer --- awnings do the same thing and are so much more "automatic"...... but my wife thinks they're ugly.   A massive "Home Fan" that fans the attic of its hot air might be helpful, but expensive.

Good Luck, you and I are both on an adventure that everyone should be doing right now!        You're ahead of the curve.


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## KevinM (Dec 16, 2008)

Two adults and two kids (2 and 4) with oil heat and electric everything else used 24 kWh/Day for Sept and Oct.

We had an audit done my our electricity company and they said we were below average of 28 kWh/Day.

The report has a pie chart of our consumption
Water Heater  45%
Kitchen           20%
Laundry          16%
Furnace Fan     10%
ET                   9%

They didn't have any suggestions since we don't use the AC.  They did put a reflective bubble wrap blanket on the electric hot water heater.  Unfortunately had to replace it and the new tank is installed too close to the wall to re-wrap it.  New one probably has more insulation than the old one that was here when we bought the house 8 years ago.

Kill-A-Watt meter is interesting to see what uses electricity when on and off.  Satellite receiver uses 14 W turned off and 15 W when on.  Old freezer in the basement used 4.5 kWh in 23 hours (they estimated 1.9 kWh/day in the report).  "New" fridge/freezer upstairs uses less then half as much,  freezer is top of the list of upgrades.  


Kevin.


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## Hansson (Dec 16, 2008)

I use 9 kWh/day average.Two adults and one kid.

I have try to change light bulbs to led and switch of things that i don't use.

Very satisfy whit the new led lamps in the kitchen roof. 5W each


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## jebatty (Dec 16, 2008)

1956 house, pretty well insulated with good windows, 1500 sq ft, 100% electric except wood stove heat, wife and I only residents.

Hot water is separately metered from our general use meter, which allowed the following determinations to be made.

The following 3 together reduced hot water electric usage by 50%:
Insulated all hot water pipes to points of use
Insulated hot water heater     with 6" fiberglass, top, sides and bottom (raise hot water heater up off the floor on wood frame)
Heat traps on hot water heater

The following reduced general use electric by 30%:
Turn off computers and entertainment center with power strips (really off)
Unplug device transformers when not being used
Turn off lights when not being used (really worked at this to make it a habit)
Use ceiling fans only when needed (before ran almost all the time)
Dehumidifier – reduced setting without adverse effect
Coffee to insulated pot and coffee maker off

The big energy hogs remain the hot water heater, electric clothes dryer, and dehumidifier. We have the Kill-o-watt meter, and found that an old fridge used very little electricity; that computer system and entertainment center when off still used lots of electricity (that's why we put these on power strips), that before reduced setting on dehumidifier, it was consuming 25% of our general use electricity). 

We long ago switched to all CFL's. LED's use almost as much electricity/watt/lumens as do CFL's.


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## velvetfoot (Dec 16, 2008)

Hansson, what are these lights?  I have a couple of small led spotlights over the fireplace mantle, but they are pretty dim.

We have been averaging 9.7 kwh/day since we (my wife and I) moved into the place.
I think the insert fan has been adding some usage during winter.
We have an oil-fired hot water system with domestic hot water, electric oven, gas cook top, electric dryer, no A/C (cool summers here at 1500').  
I have a dehumidifer but I don't use it 'cause of the energy use. (Might have to if the basement is refinished, hopefully not.)

I figure the recent 3.5 days without power will help my numbers.  

Let me just say one more thing:  I love the domestic hot water production from my boiler with water tank.  There seems to be no end.  Several people took successive showers when I had the generator on during the outage and everybody had hot water.

Here is the monthly usage:


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## jdemaris (Dec 16, 2008)

Highbeam said:
			
		

> Check the fridge with the meter. I have an older fridge and by using the Killawatt I was able to conclude that spending 1000$ on a new fridge had an extremely long payback period. If it breaks then get the Estar model, same with all appliances.



I got sort of fooled by new claims of efficiency.  My brother-in-law was here for a visit a few years ago.  He works as an efficiency expert for some company. He saw our "old" refrigerator and started ranting and raving about how wasteful it was.  OK.  I had just built a huge addition on the house with new kitchen (actually, it's not done yet).  The fridge was a Sears I had bought new in 1979.  So, we went on an efficiency rampage.   Search Energy Star rating and bought one of the most efficient refrigerators listed.    Also decided to replace out old, and huge, 1948 International Harvester chest freezer.  Looks like a battleship and weighs almost as much.  Built in 1948 and still working fine.   What'd we do?  Replaced it with a top rated new one that's a bit smaller in storage space.   What'd we gain?  Just about nothing in efficiency.

Same with the TV, but that's my fault for not checking.  Replaced our 32" CRT TV with a 42" wide-screed LCD.  Not much difference in viewing size.  Remeber, the 32" is more square, and the 42" widesreen is just wide.  No gain.   I had assumed LCDs used less power than CRT and I was wrong.   It is nice to have sometimes though.   But, I get angry at it when we watch older "square" movies that are prettty tiny on that wide screen.  I'll add that we recenty bought a Sundanzer 12 volt DC chest freezer and it is truly amazing and very efficient.  

Some figures:
Old Sears 1979 fridge used 532 KWH per year. New "efficent" fridge uses 522 KWH.

Old IH freezer (built in 1948) used 360 KWH per year.  New "efficent freezer that is smaller with less storage space uses 313 KWH and it's in a cool basement. 

Our old 32” CRT television tests at 98 watts. It’s screen has 502 square inches of viewing area 
that comes to 5.12 square inches per watt. 25.75” W X 19.5” H.

Our new wide-screen 42” LCD television tests at 170 watts. It’s screen is 762.5 square
inches and that comes to 4.48 square inches of viewing space per watt. 36.75” W X 20.75” H.


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## Hansson (Dec 16, 2008)

This is the leds.

In each spott there is 3 power leds =5w I have 9 units in the roof = 45 watt 

The light is very good.
No lighting use in the photo


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## velvetfoot (Dec 16, 2008)

Nice.  I'll have to check them out.  Plus you can dim them if you want, correct?


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## Hansson (Dec 16, 2008)

yes you can dim them.
The led is Cree XRE 7090


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## velvetfoot (Dec 16, 2008)

Thanks a lot.


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## solarstar (Dec 18, 2008)

Hi Hansson : are these LED's a direct MR16 replacement bulb or did you assemble the leds into the light fixture..Paul


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## Hansson (Dec 18, 2008)

this is the kitt i buy
http://www.nseffektivareenergi.se/W...6/FA44/3C1C/83A6/7F00/0001/B49D/9paketvit.JPG

Its mr16


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