# Hydronic Wood Stove



## chardafoe (Jan 6, 2009)

Hello,

Does anyone know if there are any manufacturer's of hydronic fireplaces/wood stoves in North America. I am looking for a wood burning unit that can hook into my radiant infloor heating. They seem to be very popular in Europe.

Thank you,
Charlotte


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## Eric Johnson (Jan 6, 2009)

Not that I'm aware of, though there was at least one European import available here a few years ago. Not sure about the current status.

You might check with Cozy Heat, one of our advertisers (top banner). They have a large selection of European boilers, so maybe they can point you in the right direction.


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## fixmyboat (Jan 6, 2009)

Check out Thermo Control.  nationalstoveworks.com


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## MovingOffGrid (Jan 6, 2009)

Char ...  I too have searched and searched and still haven't found any smaller units that are CSA or ULC approved, other than one Benjamin boiler in Nova Scotia.  I'd sure like to find something that can look decent where a wood burner should go, but still does the job for my hydronic floor heat.  The challenge here in Canada is finding something that will not nullify your house insurance, look decent enough to replace a wood burning stove, AND burn relatively clean like a new EPA wood stove can.

Here are the results I've found so far (none of which I am entirely happy with):

Benjamin Dutch Oven - (Nova Scotia) 
smallest size I have seen but not eco friendly burning  
cheaper than many European boilers and it's CSA approved but it won't look good sitting where the aesthetically pleasing wood stove sat.
http://www.benjaminheating.com/dutch.htm

Kerr Highlander
Nova Scotia boilers - about the same situation as the Benjamin only larger in size.
http://www.kerrheating.com/

Thermo Control
http://nationalstoveworks.com/boilers.htm 
I don't see any ULC or CSA designation so keeping the insurance co's happy could be a problem)

Greenwood Furnace - eco burn - big and ... ahem ... very "green"
http://www.greenwoodusa.com/greenwood-series-wood-furnace.php

Eco Burn Boiler - good eco friendly burning but pricey, bulky and doesn't seem to have the CSA approval necessary for Canada
http://www.altheating.com/econoburn.htm

Fireplaces with water jacket LAZAR S  (European - not approved over here)
http://www.hkslazar.com/our-offer/water-fireplaces/

Tarm USA     - large furnace like
http://www.woodboilers.com/ 

Garn - Monster big Boilers
http://garn.com/content/Products.aspx

Alternate Heating Systems - big and bulky
http://www.alternateheatingsystems.com/boilers.htm

Royall 
http://www.royallfurnace.com/IndoorBoiler.htm

Charmaster - large furnace type - not sure how clean the burn is.
http://www.charmaster.com/

Valley Comfort / Blaze King - They used to manufacture a water jacket but that seems to have disappeared from the maket
http://www.valleycomfort.com/

Yukon Eagle - wood furnaces and I believe they also used to have a wood boiler - they now seem to only have the "Hot Rod water heater" - Unfortunately insurance companies seem to hate this sort of thing.
http://www.yukon-eagle.com/FURNACES...HEHOTRODTOFITYOURNEEDS/tabid/183/Default.aspx

If you find anything - I'm all ears/eyes
good luck


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## Dune (Jan 6, 2009)

Send me a PM


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## CrappieKeith (Feb 18, 2009)

Tarm and Garn are what I'd point you too.


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## R Mannino (Feb 19, 2009)

These aren't bad looking.

http://www.rika.at/en/water_heating_stove/


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## cguida (Feb 19, 2009)

Char,

Here is a repeat of my post in another threat --(esthetically pleasing, water-heating wood stove)

Sedore Stove -- originally (and still) manufactured in Canada --

This is a very interesting stove—burns just about anyting—chunck wood; pellets; corn; wood chips (!).  Far as I know, it has a pretty unique principle of operation.  The long burn time and very low stack temperature look promising. It requires a good chimney draft though. 

Water heating coils for DHW or hydronic heat can be installed as an option behind the baffle.  “ask us” the website says. 

http://www.sedoreusa.com/products.html 
http://www.sedorestoves.com/easterncanadadealernew.html

I talked with the builder on the phone a while back.  I think he said the stove had about a 60K BTU/hour output.  Does that sound right?
I sure wish somebody would buy one of these and report back to us how it worked....  I'd do it myself, except I don't really have a need for it.


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## Fred61 (Feb 19, 2009)

Smee said:
			
		

> Char,
> 
> I sure wish somebody would buy one of these and report back to us how it worked....  I'd do it myself, except I don't really have a need for it.



I bought one! I suggest that you don't. Paid $2000.00, sold it to some poor bast%#d for 50 bucks. It sounds good and it's all true except for the claims that "it is efficient"....Burns nearly as much wood as an OWB, "chimney does not need cleaning".... actually clogged my chimney at least three times in one winter, "will burn all fuels".... if you use an awkward insert, "burns the smoke".... smoked up the whole neighborhood, etc. It was also pretty ugly looking but I guess I overlooked that when I purchased it because I was so impressed weth the performance claims. Pretty expensive education!


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## NNYorker (Feb 19, 2009)

Fred61 said:
			
		

> Smee said:
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   Being a former Adobe burner,but still an Adobe owner,I hear you on that pretty expensive education--I hear you!


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## cguida (Feb 19, 2009)

Wow, Fred61 -- pretty sobering.  But thanks very much for speaking up. I'll definately stop trying to badger my friends into buying one just so we can see how it works....

There's a yahoo group  http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/AlternativeHeatingSolutions/?m=0#ans  and they are chattering on about making bread in the bottom of the stove, and such like.  No hint of serious, concept-canceling non-delivery of the goods.... 

What an irony -- your comments might be for me just about the most valuable thing I've come across in this forum.

So thanks again.


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## Fred61 (Feb 19, 2009)

I think that bread baking thing is an inside job with a few suckers dragged along. You can bake bread in any non forced draft stove with a bed of coals in the bottom. There's nothing special about this stove. It's just a poorly engineered wood stove.


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## sparke (Feb 19, 2009)

I do not know if you saw this in the other thread so here it is again.  I do not know if these units are any good.  Hopefully others do...

http://cgi.ebay.com/2006-SHOWROOM-model-wood-stove-BOILER-with-visible-fire_W0QQitemZ170302633434QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item170302633434&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66:2|65:3|39:1|240:1318


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## bwolfe1 (Mar 8, 2009)

Fred61 said:
			
		

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I would be interested in where and when the Sedore was purchased, as I have not sold any in Vermont?  In this case I can't post any defense related to this customers aparently bad experiance.  I can however say that this is not the opinion of any customers I'm aware of?   I would suggest that everyone here would not take this negitive post as gospel?  If anyone here would care to speak to other Sedore users, this info can and will be provided.  There are quite a few Sedores in the Northeast and I have not recieved any complaints even vaguely similar to FRED61's?


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## Fred61 (Mar 8, 2009)

Bruce W. said:
			
		

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Went right up to Oro Ontario and picked it up. Can't tell you the exact date because I thru out all the paperwork. I didn't want to be reminded of my big mistake again. Sharron really believed in the stove but apparently never owned a stove that burned well. I guess anybody can be happy with what they have if they don't know what else is available. I can tell you right now that the Sedore will not pass any air quality tests. Have it tested, publish the results and prove me wrong.


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## Duetech (Mar 8, 2009)

Char,
The Amish use a wood stove to heat water but I am not certain what model they use.


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## in hot water (Mar 8, 2009)

There are many parlor boilers/ stoves used in Europe.  This is an example of a Buderus brand.  I don't know of any that are currently imported however.  Take a trip to the ISH show, in Frankfurt next week and you will see hundreds of them on display in the fireplace hall  Many in operation!

Aquatherm talked about bringing in some of the Zenners a few years back, I suspect listings, liability, etc keep them from being imported.  You'd be amazed what you can buy via the www these days.

hr


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## bwolfe1 (Mar 10, 2009)

Fred61 said:
			
		

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I can't be responsible for a stove made in Canada.  I don't have the paperwork but I can tell you this, August 2006 ring a bell?  The stove is only going to be good as the folks making it and has no reflection on any I've produced.  I to had an expensive education from Sharron which I can assure you was way more than 2 grand.  I have three of the Sedores you're refering to in my workshop and yes they are bad.  These were the only three I knew about being sold in the US and replaced them for free because I didn't want to be associated with them.  Had I of known about yours, I would have done the same.  Point, great design, and poor construction make a bad stove, but great design and great construction make a great stove.   The awkward insert is also not sold in the US.  You're close enough to see one made in the US, as it might be that you should be the one to prove me wrong, and you can do it on a Sunday drive.  I'm sorry that both you and I got scammed by Sharron, but that has nothing to do with the Sedores made in the US.


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## cguida (Mar 10, 2009)

Wow.  What a back story there must be to this saga.

Can you tell us what the Canadians did (or failed to do) to the Sedore design that caused it to perform so poorly?

And (as long as we're all here),  -- can you tell us about the heating coil in the Sedore?  How much heat can it deliver?  And how does this affect the operation of the rest of the stove?   As I understand it, you put the water tube on the combustion side of the baffle instead of on the exhaust side.  Isn't this kind of 'retrograde,' considering that people try to design hot fireboxes, and putting someting cold in the firebox doesn't help.  Nowdays, don't most designs try to extract the heat from the exhaust stream after (hopefully complete) combustion?


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## Fred61 (Mar 10, 2009)

I'm not an engineer and don't know what makes the Sedore work so poorly. I doubt that it had anything to do with the construction. As far as I'm concerned, if the design is the same, it wll operate the same. I don't have to prove anything. I'm not the one trying to sell this trash. I am describing my experience with the unit. If anyone that knows of my experience wants to buy a Sedore, he is welcome to do so. I have not hit the streets on a soap box campaining against the Sedore. Smee posted a question on this forum and I felt obligated to inform him of my experience.

Smee,
I was instructed to install the coil in the exhaust side, which I did. I tried thermosyphon and it made very little hot water. I then put a circulator on it and saw no improvement. When I removed it from service I observed that there was about 3/8" of crud built up on the coil because the unit burned so dirty.


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## bwolfe1 (Mar 11, 2009)

Smee said:
			
		

> Wow.  What a back story there must be to this saga.
> 
> Can you tell us what the Canadians did (or failed to do) to the Sedore design that caused it to perform so poorly?
> 
> And (as long as we're all here),  -- can you tell us about the heating coil in the Sedore?  How much heat can it deliver?  And how does this affect the operation of the rest of the stove?   As I understand it, you put the water tube on the combustion side of the baffle instead of on the exhaust side.  Isn't this kind of 'retrograde,' considering that people try to design hot fireboxes, and putting someting cold in the firebox doesn't help.  Nowdays, don't most designs try to extract the heat from the exhaust stream after (hopefully complete) combustion?



Smee,
The failure was who was doing the assembling, and has nothing to do with Canada, or the current Canadian Mfg..  The Sedore that Fred61 purchased was poorly assembled allowing air to be introduced from other areas of the stove.  Intake air from any other place but the intake air bar, adversely affects the performance, thus creating the problems Fred61 experienced.    Water coils are used in both the front and back.  Water coils in the front do affect performance so it’s important not to overload the firebox with to many coils.  I have figures on the hot water outputs which I’ll provide upon personal request basis, and vary depending on the configuration.  The heat from the exhaust is not substantial enough for boiler/heating applications, but is used for domestic tap water heating.    Most boilers extract heat from the firebox but most outdoor boilers I’ve seen have a water jacket surrounding the firebox.  Imagine the affect that has on combustion?


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## bwolfe1 (Mar 11, 2009)

Fred61 said:
			
		

> I'm not an engineer and don't know what makes the Sedore work so poorly. I doubt that it had anything to do with the construction. As far as I'm concerned, if the design is the same, it wll operate the same. I don't have to prove anything. I'm not the one trying to sell this trash. I am describing my experience with the unit. If anyone that knows of my experience wants to buy a Sedore, he is welcome to do so. I have not hit the streets on a soap box campaining against the Sedore. Smee posted a question on this forum and I felt obligated to inform him of my experience.
> 
> Smee,
> I was instructed to install the coil in the exhaust side, which I did. I tried thermosyphon and it made very little hot water. I then put a circulator on it and saw no improvement. When I removed it from service I observed that there was about 3/8" of crud built up on the coil because the unit burned so dirty.



Fred61,
I’m not in any way trying to minimize you’re experience with the stove.  The point I’m trying to make is that the construction of the stove has a huge affect on how it operates.  I have one that is heating my home, (2600 SF) slab in basement, baseboards up-stairs, with custom coils in the firebox, and creating more domestic hot water, than we can use with one 21t in the back chamber.  I have done nothing but test these units for the last three years, and one small flaw and they don’t work.  I’m simply sharing with you and others that assembly and some minor changes do make a huge difference.


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## Jim Post (Mar 11, 2009)

Here is a link to a interesting product I found several years ago...I never followed up with them beyond the website review.  

I like the concept...

http://www.hydro-to-heat-convertor.com/index1.html

jp


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## bwolfe1 (Mar 11, 2009)

CZARCAR said:
			
		

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M. CZARCAR,
Wow, you are quick?  I'm not even sure what is being implied here, but I did get the message on being banned from the Yahoo Group.  My guess is that you possibly figured out a way around this?  If not I'll ask the moderator to lift the ban.  Testing of my product is on going and the end results will be shared with whom I choose?


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## the mekanic (Mar 13, 2009)

My father purchased a simple plate steel box stove back in the late '70's.  It was about 2' x 3' x 4' with a fire brick bottom, and water piping on the sides.  It stood on four 1" pipe legs.  On the back were the inlet, outlet, and circulation loops.  We had a basic 1/3 horse circulator regulated by an aquastat.  It exchanged water with the oil-fired boiler, and him being a carpenter, we usually had plenty of wood.  I don't ever recall having a problem with the chimney, and it was serviced seasonally.  If anyone knows where I could find such a box stove these days, I would like to get another.  It lasted about 23 years before we had to let it go due to eventual metal fatigue, and failure of the water piping.


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