# Pulling permits for a basement renovation? Got the permit - work has begun



## daveswoodhauler (Jan 4, 2010)

Ok, so I am starting to think that my idea of a basement playroom for the kids is never going to happen...this was after I made a trip to the building department to pull a permit....trying to do it the right way.

Sorry for the rant...

Basically, I was looking to finish 1/2 of my basement...into one large room for the kids.  My plan was to drylok the entire basement, insulate, and then stud and drywall. I was going to add electric and another zone for heat.  (Don't worry, got all the correct info on insulation from hearth folks here, so greatly appreciated)

Met with the building inspector, and ran into a few problems:

Basement is not waterproofed.....I explained to him that I was going to Dry Lok the entire basement, sent him the spec sheet.....not sure if that is going to cut it. If that doesn't cut it, I will need a soil test done outside the foundation to make sure drainage is ok. (No signs of water ever in the basement, but run dehumidifier in the summer)

Basement needs 4% of the area to be natural ventilation. Only have 2 small windows and an insulated door into a bulkead, so it doesn't meet code. I have forced hot water for heat, so now I would need to put in a mechnical ventilation device.

Landing of the stairs needs to be 36X36 at the base, but since the builder decided to put the well line right at the landing of the stairs, I don't have the clearance....built the wall at the landing on a small angle to hide the well piping, and inspector said it wouldn't cut it. So, took down the wall, built it straight, and was going to box the piping in under a platform, but then I would not have 6'6" of clearance from the top of ceiling to the floor.

I've been looking as the Mass construction code, and I just don't see this project as happening, as budget is a concern.

I guess my question is can I just pull a permit for the electrical (new lights and outlets) and plumbing (3rd zone off boiler)? The only walls I am framing are the perimiter walls along the insulation (not structural) and one dividing wall between the utility area and the finished area..again, this is non structural

I really don't care on resale if the basement is considered finished or not.....as my budget for the process was going to be about $5500 as I was going to do everything except the electrical and plumbing run. What I did want to do is to have the permit done for the electrical and plumbing, as if we ever sell the house things will be in order.

Just seems that more I read the building code, I am going to find more and more things that we not in the original plans.


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## seige101 (Jan 4, 2010)

Personally i would just do it without any permit what so ever. But only because they are trying to give you so much greif.


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## Highbeam (Jan 4, 2010)

I always pull electrical permits since it can burn the house down and kill people. The electrical permit is through the state department of Labor and Industries (L&I) and is completely independent of mechanical or building permits. The experience has been quite good. 

The plumbing permit is what will catch you. The mechanical permit will be issued by the same guys that should be issuing your building permit so they will catch you and that's bad. Why do you need this plumbing permit? 

Consider the risk. If your plumbing leaks, will anyone die? Can it cause an explosion or other catastrophic loss if done poorly? Do you feel confident enough in your abilities to do it right? Can you hire that part of the work out so that you can say it was professionally done? 

If you ask the question, you dang near need a permit to take a dump.


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## daveswoodhauler (Jan 4, 2010)

The plumbing work to be done is basically adding about 20 feet or so of hot water baseboard, and connecting to the existing furnace.
Other than that, there is no additional plumbing work.
The inspector for the electrical and plumbing is the same person as the building inspection (small town). So I guess my question is, if I am not building any structural walls, and really only framing in the interior walls of the current foundation, why do I need a building permit if I am going to pull a permit for the plumbing and electrical? (I guess I need to read up more of the Massachusetts code...basically, I just want to pull permits for the electrical and plumbing)


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## burnham (Jan 5, 2010)

Yes, you need a building permit if you're going to finish the basement.  If you have the electrical/plumbing inspector in your house he's going to talk to the building inspector about your job.    I have seen plenty of jobs done without permits, IMO the most important thing is to hire people who know what they're doing.   Do the plumbing and wiring to code, and get the rest as close as possible.  It's probably a good time to look at the smoke detectors/carbon monoxide detectors in the house as well.


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## Danno77 (Jan 5, 2010)

whazza permit? we don't have those in my small town. get 'er dun.


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## daveswoodhauler (Jan 5, 2010)

burnham said:
			
		

> Yes, you need a building permit if you're going to finish the basement.  If you have the electrical/plumbing inspector in your house he's going to talk to the building inspector about your job.    I have seen plenty of jobs done without permits, IMO the most important thing is to hire people who know what they're doing.   Do the plumbing and wiring to code, and get the rest as close as possible.  It's probably a good time to look at the smoke detectors/carbon monoxide detectors in the house as well.


Thanks Burnham, in this case, the building inspector, wiring inspector and plumbing inspector are all the same person.


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## fbelec (Jan 5, 2010)

makes you think. is this guy going to give you a good inspection. i'm electrician, anytime i have seen a (electrical inspectors wanted) sign the requirements of the job is (got to have current electrical license). if this guy is a licensed electrician and plumber and contractor my hat is off to the guy. 

you don't need a plumbing permit to run a zone of heat. you can do your own heating system work as long as you don't touch anything to do with the oil if it's oil and gas if it's gas and the water feed if it's a steam or hot water boiler.


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## stee6043 (Jan 6, 2010)

In my previous home I completely finished a basement (electrical, plumbing, mechanical) without a permit.  The cost of the permit is what convinced me to take the chance.  I couldn't believe what they wanted in fees.  And when I finally sold my home....I had a HUGE win when the city building inspector actually inspected my entire house, basement included, and approved the home for sale.

If you make sure you follow codes and are 100% safe.....I say go for it.


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## daveswoodhauler (Jan 7, 2010)

stee6043 said:
			
		

> In my previous home I completely finished a basement (electrical, plumbing, mechanical) without a permit.  The cost of the permit is what convinced me to take the chance.  I couldn't believe what they wanted in fees.  And when I finally sold my home....I had a HUGE win when the city building inspector actually inspected my entire house, basement included, and approved the home for sale.
> 
> If you make sure you follow codes and are 100% safe.....I say go for it.



We have a friend that did the same, and did not pull a permit, but everything was up to code. Well, 6 years later, they went to sell the some, and the electrical code had changed, so the original wiring done was correct 6 years back...but then they had to redo the wiring and then have it signed off to sell the home...probably an extreme example, but I guess it could go either way. I requested that the building inspector to come out to the house before I start anything, as I found 2-3 items that are shades of grey in the building code, so I want to get his interpretation before doing anything. We decided that we are going to pull permits for all work. Thanks for all the help


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## fbelec (Jan 8, 2010)

ilikewood said:
			
		

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if he is the guy that does all 3 inspections make sure you get a copy of the final inspection. i say this because some towns don't send anything when the job is done. and also if you think that you'll be safe saying that no need to worry the town will always have a copy. think again. i'm in the middle of wiring a garage/workshop. when the builder went to pull a permit for the job in june so that the job could start in july they came out to the site and said whooo all stop nothing is going to start until the home owner and i straighten out this addition that was put up with out a permit. the town lost all the paperwork for that permit. i know there was a permit pulled for the addition because when it was put up 25 years ago i pulled the permit and had inspections done. so keep a copy for yourself for justin. 

good luck and if you need help with the electrical give a yell.


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## Cire3 (Jan 13, 2010)

Wow, you mean the basement wasn't already finished and been like they forever ? 

   I would have it done right but heck why is the township making money off my basement ? "Just my opinion"  Our township is so harsh that we all try to go around, the inspectors are a joke and are easily paid off so is it really necessary ? (#1) no one will see it being done  (#2) I wouldn't want my taxes going up any more than they are "you are changing the value of the home"  (#3) it's my house and no one's business if I'm not installing anything that isn't putting anyone at risk.

 I'm sorry, but around here you have to kiss some serious a$$ to get anything done and they make it nearly impossible and expensive to do it rite.     Excuse me I shouldn't say rite, but "the townships way"

 My2Cents, all it's worth.

 All the best of luck


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## Danno77 (Jan 13, 2010)

Cire3 said:
			
		

> Wow, you mean the basement wasn't already finished and been like they forever ?


LOL, that's my MO and it will work around here. "That was like that when i moved in." lol


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## fbelec (Jan 14, 2010)

i understand how some inspectors think they should be karted around on a throne, but around here electrical permits are not expensive. one town up here charges 26 dollar to every thousand that the electrical job costs. that not alot of money considering that the money generated by the permit pays for the inspectors pay, the car he shows up in, the insurance the town has to pay and the people that do the filing of the paper work. for most of the licensed pro there is no need. i do the work the same as if were going to get inspected. no bad habits to watch out for. there are those guys out there that need their license taken away, but they are not the majority. if you have to pay off the the inspector to get the job passed then the state inspector needs a call. i've done it and it usually gets results. i'm not saying that you should not pull a permit. some towns allow home owners permits. that allows you to do the job your self and get the proper inspection just in case something does happen you'll have proof that the job was done right for your insurance company.


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## RAY_PA (Jan 14, 2010)

my grandpa always told me it was ALOT easier to ask forgivness than to get permission! ...I still make decisions on that quote.


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## pybyr (Jan 20, 2010)

I am SO glad that I live in a place where I don't need any permits for any work that I do inside my own home.  I do the work carefully, and follow safety standards.


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## fbelec (Jan 20, 2010)

pybyr said:
			
		

> I am SO glad that I live in a place where I don't need any permits for any work that I do inside my own home.  I do the work carefully, and follow safety standards.



if you don't have inspections, how do you know that you are doing approved work?


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## Danno77 (Jan 20, 2010)

fbelec said:
			
		

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I tend to feel that most inspections are to protect those who don't know what they are doing and make a few bucks off of those who do know what they are doing.


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## daveswoodhauler (Jan 22, 2010)

Well, I guess I can now understand why folks don't pull permits for renovations.
I went down on the building department on Dec 28th and let them know what I wanted to do...they gave me a 2 page handout of things that would need to be in place before the permit could be pulled, and there were 2 items I just had questions on....one, was that the foundation needed to be waterproofed...the inspector asked that I give him the detail sheets on the product I was going to use (Dry Lok) and I did so on 12/29...so, after phone calls and emails, they have yet to contact me back to see if the product meets their needs.......lady at the inspectors office keeps teeling me that the inspector will touch base with me.....well the timeframe has come and gone...I understand that they are leery of giving permits to homeowners, but this is not a tough job...finishing off 400 feet in a basement, come on....this is freaking rediculous.....I can understand why contractors don't like to work in certain towns/cities. Problem is, you still have to kiss ass and be real nice, as if I press the issue I am just going to make them upset and they will be a pain in the ass on the sign off.
Sorry for the rant, but I guess that felt good


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## billb3 (Jan 22, 2010)

We have to  get a permit for just about anything.
Saying goes: Paper, paint, or plastic - anything else needs a permit.

Too many contractors just won't take on projects here because of them and the constant changes.

They're basically a tax.
I don't mind the retired guy next door on a fixed income not paying the town for my record-keeping and inspections.

Doesn't seem totally fair to expect to be able to bring a 50 year old house up to current new-build codes.
My basement that had a  raised floor can't be replaced or repaired because it won't  meet current  height requirements for a new-build ? Magic Johnon is NEVER going to live here. Trust me.
Shouldn't require a general contractor  to come up with creative ways around new rules nor a lawyer to find loop-holes in wording.
Nor petitioning the state for relief  to only end up with Town admins  watching you for the rest of thier term(s).


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## burnham (Jan 24, 2010)

Being an electrician I have to complete a 21 hour code refresher course every three years.  There is usually about six hours of good information about code changes, and then the rest is BS.  The guy who puts it on sits in on the code panel, which is the group of people who write the code.    He says many times when people have a product to sell they will present it to the code panel, along with a reason why they think there should be a law making it mandatory.   A lot of inspectors don't know the difference between a law that is impractical and one that has a place, and they just enforce the code the way its written.....or the way they think it's written.   If I'm lucky, the guy inspecting my work has actually worked with the tools within the last twenty years, or even better yet been in business himself.  I do work without permits at times, but I do like having my work inspected.  I have had inspectors bring up valid points, and have a better or smarter way of doing some things.


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## PapaDave (Jan 24, 2010)

And, here's the problem. Interpretations. WTH? The code should be written to exclude that. Some inspectors will interpret the code how THEY want things done, and here we've been doing things to "code" for quite a while. Now, because of some interpretation, it's not to code. BS. 
Some dept's get a fee every time they make a visit. How many things can we find wrong, and how many times can we do that? Mo' money. BS. 
Real situations, real people, real BS.
No problem with codes, but sometimes they just don't work as designed.
Example, we worked on a remod for a guy. Everything was down to studs. He (or his "carpenter") repartitioned a couple rooms, and the headers were doubled 2x4's on the FLAT. 'scuse me? Needless to say, sagging was VERY apparent, yet,....it passed. Those walls will NEVER be right.

I built a pole barn, and had the basic structure inspected since it's kinda large and easily seen. I added windows, electrical, and insulation w/o inspection. Son-in-law is an electrician. I did all the work, then had him take a look at it. He said, "nice work, you did it right". I knew that.
Sorry, but inspections can be a sore point.


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## ironpony (Jan 25, 2010)

welcome to the world of a contractor
now people can somewhat understand why,
what appeares to be a simple project costs so much
i am an environmental contractor
lead based paint, asbestos,mold and radon
add in goverment regulation on these and it 
becomes a nightmare


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## drdoct (Jan 25, 2010)

Sorry folks but you don't really own the land or home you are inhabiting.  The govt (on every level) has taken the power over everything we own.  From eminent domain abuse to small town building inspections to raise home values even after the real estate bubble.  They control it all.  I pulled a permit once because I enclosed my carport and within a day of studding it in they came by and asked for my permit.  It added another $400 just to enclose my carport!  Unless it's visible then I wouldn't pull anything because I honestly hate the grubby govt idiots.  But that's just me.


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## Tony H (Jan 26, 2010)

I would only pull a permit for a large or very visible project . The small amount of work in the basement build out does not warrant an permit just make sure it's done to code and you will have no problems with a future sale or inspection.


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## daveswoodhauler (Jan 26, 2010)

Well, going to march my ass back down to the building department today and find out what the issue is. Will post back later on today.
I am ok with not pulling a permit for the electrical, as my electrician does everything to code, and I am not worried about that issue.
My wife on the other hand has different idea's, so they onlt way its going to happen is if its done legit with all permits pulled.....maybe if I just go down there 3 times a week they will get sick of me


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## fbelec (Jan 26, 2010)

Tony H said:
			
		

> I would only pull a permit for a large or very visible project . The small amount of work in the basement build out does not warrant an permit just make sure it's done to code and you will have no problems with a future sale or inspection.



ditto


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## Chad S. (Jan 26, 2010)

fbelec said:
			
		

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When I sold my first home I had done a ton of work to it w/o permits and lived in town.  The buyers said I needed to get this and that inspected and TRYED to make my life hell.  I simly countered their with my offer as "Take it or Leave it".  Two months later, they took it.


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## dobie daddy (Jan 26, 2010)

fbelec said:
			
		

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yep.


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## timfromohio (Jan 26, 2010)

Just another form of taxation.  I understand having standards from a safety standpoint.  But I think it's gotten way out of hand.  There is a township close to me in which you need to get a permit to change out a hot water heater.  That is ridiculous.


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## Highbeam (Jan 26, 2010)

It's also very common. The water heater thing. You wouldn't want some schmuck doing it wrong and gassing you out or blowing the house up. 

What burns me is the permits for building a fence on your own property. Things that obviously would not endanger anyone.


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## daveswoodhauler (Jan 26, 2010)

Highbeam said:
			
		

> It's also very common. The water heater thing. You wouldn't want some schmuck doing it wrong and gassing you out or blowing the house up.
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> What burns me is the permits for building a fence on your own property. Things that obviously would not endanger anyone.



Or a permit for framing in a non structural/non load bearig wall


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## burnham (Jan 26, 2010)

(here)  Have a dumpster in your yard?  Need a permit.   Replacing your roof or windows?  Need a permit.   It's crazy.  Is any inspector going to get up on my roof and inspect it?    Some of the shittiest work I've have even seen was done by a building inspector who lives in the town I work for.  The guy has a rep. for being a hack, so the next town over makes him building inspector.   I can see why people give up on this system.


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## PJF1313 (Jan 27, 2010)

ilikewood said:
			
		

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Even worse - REPLACEMENT windows ???  

 Last house, in an unfortunately Inc. Village, had Sears (a whole 'nother can of worms) replace about a dozen windows.

  We, wife and I, researched the house back to it's build date (1909) for photos and such.  We copied/scanned pictures from the "old-time" neighbors, some of the owners grand-parents where the original owners, from the time it was a dirt road and the Lace Mill was the second biggest employer - fishing was the first.  We had the windows custom made with a 2-over-2 configuration; like the '09 originals; true divided lite, to replace the '70's retrofit that leaked like a sieve.

  The town had no problems with it, the "village" was the problem - no permit!?!?   WTF! - It already cost us 150 for the town permit, now the village wants another $200!  Now, on top of nearly 2k for windows, the permits where another 350...  just to get rid of SOME of the drafts.  (The windows where installed on the second floor - the first floor still had some '70s replacements, and some '60's "updated" double-hungs)

  Fortunately, we moved a few years ago about 10 miles east.  No more "village" taxes ontop of our regular taxes - no more of their hoops to jump through, etc. - but still in the same town.

Sorry about the rant -  Please "Ash Can" this if it's worthy....


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## keep-in warm (Jan 27, 2010)

I thought windows and a non-load walls were both silly, until the city busted be for not pulling a permit for replacing an asphalt driveway.  Its all about taxes and very little to do with safety.


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## billb3 (Jan 27, 2010)

To build a garage I had to have my septic sytem emptied and inspected.
$150.00 for the honey wagon sucker and $45.00 for the town "inspection".
"Inspector" never got his fat a$$ off his chair. Rubber stamped the copy of the pumping fee reciept, so I could go on to the next  permit application.
Septic is 200 feet from the garage and no connections to it.


Had to have 'Safedig' proof, too.

Have to have XXX GAScompany sign off as safe.
XXX GAScompany doesn't have any gas lines on my street.
Doesn't matter - but they can sign off that digging in my back yard won't hit thier gas lines . (Because they don;t have any there, but that doesn't have to mentioned)

Do you think I have to have XXYGAS company sign off for safe to dig ?
Who DOES have gas lines on my street and area ?
Nope.

Idiots.
$112,000.00 salary.


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## fbelec (Jan 27, 2010)

agreed on the stupid permits. if you think that's bad, get caught doing work without a permit and the fee for the permit triples. i don't know about other contractors, but electricians that don't pull permits and get caught and if put in front of the board of electricians might get their license taken away. pulling a permit for replacement windows is dumb. unless that double hung is coming out and a large bow windows is going to be installed. lots of problems from guys doing things like that and think they know what their doing and don't. a partition wall in a basement is a dumb permit. wiring it could be a problem if you don't know the codes. doing the work and having the work torn down because it's not code is not only embarrassing but costly. i'm not saying pull permits for everything that you do, but if your doing the work yourself it might be a way of double checking your work so that nothing is done against code. i do work without permits sometimes because if i were to pull permits for small things the inspector would think i'm a pain it the _ _ _, and in the words of a inspector that did not have the time to come out for the small things " just do it to code". out here in mass. a permit is needed to do siding. you might think, siding, what a waste of time and money. before it was required to pull permits for siding these guys would come to side your house and when it came time to side by the electric meter the sider would stick his pry bar behind the meter and pry it off the house to stick their siding behind and when they did that the screws that were holding the meter onto the house got loose and hit the live wires and some blew the meter up, sometimes the screw would not blow up and keep the connection going and would melt the service cable that was on the house and start that on fire. and sometimes it wouldn't hurt the customers house or equipment but would blow up the transformer on the pole. so it sounds dumb to pull a electrical permit for a siding job, but it is to everyone's best interest. but the non bearing walls or closet or kitchen cabinets biggest waste of everybody time and money.


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## seige101 (Jan 27, 2010)

fbelec said:
			
		

> a permit is needed to do siding. you might think, siding, what a waste of time and money. before it was required to pull permits for siding these guys would come to side your house and when it came time to side by the electric meter the sider would stick his pry bar behind the meter and pry it off the house to stick their siding behind and when they did that the screws that were holding the meter onto the house got loose and hit the live wires and some blew the meter up, sometimes the screw would not blow up and keep the connection going and would melt the service cable that was on the house and start that on fire. and sometimes it wouldn't hurt the customers house or equipment but would blow up the transformer on the pole. so it sounds dumb to pull a electrical permit for a siding job, but it is to everyone's best interest. but the non bearing walls or closet or kitchen cabinets biggest waste of everybody time and money.




Never heard about pulling an electrical permit for a siding permit in mass. Though for the reasons you stated above i can agree. I have been to re attach many services after the siding guy has ripped them off the house. One one of those same jobs, the idiot siding guy though he could re-wire the spotlights by putting romex behind the siding. 

Last but not least and deff my favorite. New house, new service going on, siding guy had sided that side already so we mounted our meter and ran the pipe out to the pole. Well he didn't think it looked good and took it upon himself to put the wire from the the meter to the house in an LB fitting. Well he skunned the insulation on the wire and we had to re pull the entire wire 4/0 SER about 75 feet across the garage ceiling and into the basement.

The boss sent him one hell of an expensive bill and basically told the guy to stick with siding.

/rant over


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## billb3 (Jan 27, 2010)

Ha, a friend pulled a permit to replace windows on his house. Did the front and sides but not the back. The permit expired in a year, but he decided the next Summer to just do the back, no one would notice.  Neighbor or Town inspector noticed, he got a cease and desist letter from the Town. Got a permit again, plus the fine, but the Town assessor asked when he filled in the in ground pool - he never got  a permit to do it.
Seems he never had a pool, nor a two car garage, but had been paying taxes on them for 25 years. No post-abatements. He still fumes if I bring it up.


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## fbelec (Jan 29, 2010)

seige101 said:
			
		

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good one. that's what he gets for thinkin.


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## billb3 (Jan 29, 2010)

I've seen some neighbors get in some pretty nasty fights over fences. 

A permit so everyone knows and understands the rules and keeps those fights out of Town Hall meetings kinda makes sense.


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## TreePapa (Jan 29, 2010)

I personally ain't that happy that I'm required to pull a permit for anyting not "paint, paper, or plastic" ... but I'm sure glad my neighbors are!

Not that either I or my neighbors are in strict compliance with this ... but I try to stay as close to code as possible when doing (or hiring) work w/o permits. Some of my neighbors, not so much.

Peace,
- Sequoia


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## doubledip (Jan 30, 2010)

In my neck of the woods, the city is adopting 2003 International building code. Whoo Hoo! HUH??  Which requires an egress on a basement remodel, the added expense can escalate cost by the thousands.

Most if not all older homes constructed with a hole in the ground were built moisture resistant and not actually waterproof. With that in mind the choice of materials used now may minimize grief later down the line. i.e. metal studs, paperless drywall in an effort to prevent mold growth incase water gets in. Owens Corning has a nice basement system but is pricey.

Its a crying shame that the owner of a property needs to ask permission of a tyrannical government body to improve their home.

In my opinion I would skip the permit but make sure the job is done right.


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## daveswoodhauler (Jan 30, 2010)

Well, I had the building inspector come over on Thursday to show him what I wanted to so, and he answered all my questions and I think he was pretty pleased on what I was going to do from insulation/framing etc....thanks to folks here.
Before he left, I said "can you see anything down here that might present a problem, or I might have left out???, and he said "you should be fine, everything looks good"
Gave me a little piece of mind that I was at least doing things right.
Off to find a plumber than can now add an additional zone


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## fbelec (Jan 31, 2010)

doubledip said:
			
		

> In my neck of the woods, the city is adopting 2003 International building code. Whoo Hoo! HUH?? Which requires an egress on a basement remodel, the added expense can escalate cost by the thousands.
> 
> Most if not all older homes constructed with a hole in the ground were built moisture resistant and not actually waterproof. With that in mind the choice of materials used now may minimize grief later down the line. i.e. metal studs, paperless drywall in an effort to prevent mold growth incase water gets in. Owens Corning has a nice basement system but is pricey.
> 
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i think and hope that code for 2nd exit is for tenant house or basement apartment. if not they a just inviting jobs without permits. if they want to enforce a code on new houses to be built with two doors that's fine, but they should have a old house grandfather law.


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## Hogwildz (Jan 31, 2010)

F-ck inspectors, F-ck permits, & F-ck the government that is everything this country was started for/against.
I'm on pain killers, can ya tell? Hows my attitude?


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## fbelec (Jan 31, 2010)

Hogwildz said:
			
		

> F-ck inspectors, F-ck permits, & F-ck the government that is everything this country was started for/against.
> I'm on pain killers, can ya tell? Hows my attitude?



attitude is great. i think you should go to washington


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## Hurricane (Feb 1, 2010)

We should figure out a way to make the government accountable for failures after inspection. That would make them think twice. If they inspect it then it fails the inspecting body is responsible for repairs. It just might make the number of inspections less and the inspectors pay attention more. When I had an addition electrical inspection done the inspector had the approved sticker filled out before he arrived. I have seen inspections pass that were clear safety violations, I guess it is who you know or pay.


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## Highbeam (Feb 1, 2010)

You can be certain that just because a job was permitted and inspected is no guarantee that it was done to code. The inspectors are not responsible, it's revenue.


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## NEDLAX (Feb 9, 2010)

I helped my brother install his wood stove earlier this year he is also renovating his basement its where the stove is.  Its 90% framed and just started the electrical no permits just having a friend who is a electrician tie everything into the box.  Issue is he hasnt had the stove inspected yet, do you think insurance guy would have a problem being that no permits were gotten for the basement and the stove. I didnt have to pull a permit for my stove.


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## fbelec (Feb 9, 2010)

if the fire dept is going to do the inspection you might not have a problem. if it is the building inspector that will inspect the stove set up you will need to pull permits for everything else so that he doesn't put a stop order on you.


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## NEDLAX (Feb 12, 2010)

the insurance guy would be inspecting


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## fbelec (Feb 13, 2010)

does he want to see any permits?


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## Cluttermagnet (Mar 6, 2010)

drdoct said:
			
		

> Sorry folks but you don't really own the land or home you are inhabiting.  The govt (on every level) has taken the power over everything we own.  From eminent domain abuse to small town building inspections to raise home values even after the real estate bubble.  They control it all.  I pulled a permit once because I enclosed my carport and within a day of studding it in they came by and asked for my permit.  It added another $400 just to enclose my carport!  Unless it's visible then I wouldn't pull anything because I honestly hate the grubby govt idiots.  But that's just me.


Nope. That's not just you. Lots of folks feel that way.

Can you say you 'own' your home, even if the mortgage is fully paid down, if they can still take it for unpaid taxes? Well, the vast majority of Americans live under precisely that hazard.

I'm trying to get my property taxes reduced. No, seriously. Stop that laughing. But recent, actual sell prices in my neighborhood ('comparables') are *no good, * 'not real', sez they. The vast majority of even *non-foreclosure * sales  lately are considered by them to be  'duress sales'. Remember the gal on Mad TV? Fingers in ears, going "La la la la la... I can't hear you..." (etc.)

What a load of excrement. So they get to keep the taxes based on  X amount of pre- bubble burst home value, whereas the actual price I could possibly hope for today in this market is more like 0.5X or 0.6X. They're bleeding me. If I had a mortgage, I'd be 'under water' for sure. They swear up and down that the Emperor has clothes on. Power always goes to 'their' heads, whoever 'they' are. The tax/ code enforcement 'authorities' around here are absolutely drunk with power.

"Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely."

I'd not be surprised if someone started a class action suit over this nonsense.



Oh, yeah- skip the permit *if * you can do it right and safe, and they can't see it. Otherwise, don't do it. With recent code changes here since Y2K, you pretty much need to pull a permit to fart. Or is that "pull my finger?" ;-)


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## woodsmaster (Mar 14, 2010)

It's mostley just a way to raise your property tax. You pull a permit they raise the value of your house and your taxes plus get the inital fee. I wouldn't pull a permit unless it is something they will see from the road.


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## daveswoodhauler (Nov 18, 2010)

Ok, so I got the permit pulled in the spring, and have finally begun to work on the basement.
First step was using Drylok on all the interior foundation walls, as it was required to be waterproofed in order to get the permit. (I never had a water problem, but Town requirements required waterproofing)
Anyway, I am going to go with Rigid Insulation on the walls, and had 2 questions:

Can I just use construction adhesive to attach the insulation to the walls?
Can I use perhaps  1/2" to 1"  rigid on the cement floor as well? (My plan was going to go with a cheap pergo type product on the floor, and thought that the 1/2" rigid might be good for a bit of insulation on the floor as well as a little cushion) Would this act as a moisture/vapor barrier? 

My plan was to go the walls with 1" rigid (R5) and then frame walls normal 2 X 4, with a 1" barrier between the walls and rigid foam. Then use R13 inbetween the studs. (Probably overkill for the basement, but the insulation is poretty cheap)

Any thoughts would be great.


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## Later (Nov 18, 2010)

I built a shed a couple of years ago and actually got a permit. Inspector came by when I was working on it and told me that it was a good looking shed, but would look much better with a bottle of scotch in it. When he came for the final inspection I put a fifth of Johnny Walker on the floor. We were both happy.


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## firefighterjake (Nov 19, 2010)

Retired Guy said:
			
		

> I built a shed a couple of years ago and actually got a permit. Inspector came by when I was working on it and told me that it was a good looking shed, but would look much better with a bottle of scotch in it. When he came for the final inspection I put a fifth of Johnny Walker on the floor. We were both happy.



I'm glad you both walked away happy . . . but I still think that public servants should not be willing to take bribes . . . now don't get me wrong . . . I'm sure you did everything by the book and you're probably the type to do the right thing . . . to me the issue is with the inspector who is pretty brash to be dropping some pretty big hints . . . I'm sorry, but I still am naive and think folks who are being paid by the public have an obligation to simply accept their weekly pay as payment and not expect bribes -- sure it may not be much this time around . . . but a bottle now . . . in a few years he may expect a few $20 bills. Sorry . . . didn't mean to get off track here . . . it's just I see this happen and it just doesn't sit well with me.


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