# Osburn 2200 or 2400?



## tfenn1 (Nov 16, 2006)

I'm considering a Osburn 2200 or 2400 insert.  I like the look of the 2200 with the bay window but haven't been able to get a good picture of the 2400. The 2200 is only $50 more but the 2400 is a bigger insert. Does anyone know the benefit of one over the other? Does the 2400 require an 8" flue? Thanks for your help.


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## begreen (Nov 16, 2006)

Specs here:
http://osburnstoves.com/html/wood.html

EDIT: wrong site. It has misinformation and is not the official Osburn site.  The correct site is:
http://www.osburn-mfg.com/


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## firewatcher (Nov 16, 2006)

Bigger is always better in my book.  I bought the 2200 Bay window and I now wish I had bought the bigger 2400.  After a while looks go and functionality rules. The 2400 has a much larger firebox which means longer burn times, less feeding and more heat output And if you want less just tamper it down with the air intake lever


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## firewatcher (Nov 16, 2006)

You may also want to consider an insert with an ashpan.  As a new user to inserts, I wish someone told me about ashpans.  How life would be much easier with an ashpan.  Look at this option before you buy.  Your wife might really appreciate it.  Less ash, less spills, less mess, less dust...


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## wg_bent (Nov 16, 2006)

I agree with all said except the looks statement.  I still find the look of the bay window a major bonus.  Of course my stove heats well, but if it didn't then I'm sure size would become more important.  The 2400 is huge, so you'll still get a great fire view.  You might want to look at the Quadrafire with the bay window also.   If you considering a stove that large, you really have to consider the PE summit insert.


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## firewatcher (Nov 16, 2006)

The PE summiT is a cat stove right?  Arent they more maintanence then???


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## wg_bent (Nov 17, 2006)

(busting your chops) You've got to be kidding.  You clearly have NOT been paying attention.  Look at all the posts by RooSpike.  He's the local PE summit spokes man...and it's NOT a CAT stove.

If you want perspective on CATs...look to ElkIMEG.  He burns VC CAT stoves, and I'll bet he'll say they aren't any harder to burn than a Non-CAT.  A very slight diff in operation.

PE Summit and Osburn 2400 are two of the biggest stoves out there and are very comparable.


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## wingnut (Nov 17, 2006)

I have the 2200 and it is working great for me.  I looked up some info on both the 2200 and the 2400. The 2400 does have a larger fire box but is only rated at 49,000btu and the 2200 is rated at 75,000btu http://www.nevelsstoves.com/osburnstoves/osburn_wood_inserts.html


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## BrotherBart (Nov 17, 2006)

wingnut said:
			
		

> I have the 2200 and it is working great for me.  I looked up some info on both the 2200 and the 2400. The 2400 does have a larger fire box but is only rated at 49,000btu and the 2200 is rated at 75,000btu http://www.nevelsstoves.com/osburnstoves/osburn_wood_inserts.html



I think Nevel needs to do some work on their Osburn specs. Osburn lists the 2400 insert as up to 100,000 BTU and the 2200 as up to 75,000 BTU.


http://www.osburn-mfg.com/product.aspx?CategoId=7&Id=247


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## firewatcher (Nov 17, 2006)

I'd have to agree with Brother Bart I am looking at the Osburn Brochure right now and it says the 2200 has 75,000 output and the 2400 with 100,000 output.  Nevel needs to update


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## firewatcher (Nov 17, 2006)

BTW all Osburns use a 6 inch flue


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## begreen (Nov 17, 2006)

Hmmm, kind of funny. I think that the salesperson probably went to this site thinking it was the official Osburn site:
It lists the 2400 insert as:
    * 3.5 g/hr. weighted average
    * 1.6 g/hr. at 21259 BTU/hr
    * 11900 to 40900 BTU/hr
http://www.osburnstoves.com/html/2400insert.html

But it got me too. 8-/ :red: I was thinking to m'self, boy Osburn seems to have a really rinky-dink website. That didn't sit well with me so I went back and found the error. Edited the original posting with the correct link for Osburn: http://www.osburn-mfg.com/ My apologies to Osburn fans out there.


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## wingnut (Nov 17, 2006)

Thanks for straghting that out for everone! The spec. make more seince now Looks like they used the EPA spec. not the one for seasiond hardwood.


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## Bozlee (Nov 24, 2006)

tfenn1 said:
			
		

> I'm considering a Osburn 2200 or 2400 insert.  I like the look of the 2200 with the bay window but haven't been able to get a good picture of the 2400. The 2200 is only $50 more but the 2400 is a bigger insert. Does anyone know the benefit of one over the other? Does the 2400 require an 8" flue? Thanks for your help.




Hope I caught you in time before you buy "any osburn stove". We purchased a 2200 Baywood in late 2002 and had it installed late February or early March in our just built brand new home. We burnt it all fall and winter of 2003-2004 without problems. Only thing that kept happening was the door casket kept coming off and needing replacing.

We started burning it for the second year in late October of 2004. We burnt it pretty much every day and night and one day about a month later I noticed brown lines on my cieling and exterior walls where the studs would be. My first thought was a moisture problem until closer inspection! When I attempted to wipe at these brown lines with a wet sponge, the brown immediatly turned black and would not wipe clean but got all smeared. To make a very long story short, my entire 1700 foot home and every single thing in it, walls, wood work, cabinets, everything in those cabinets, furniture, clothing, linens, food ect. was covered in a brown greasy film. I have to tell you that there is only one place this could have come from and that is from this osburn stove and at no time while we where burning it did we have smoke or anything visibly emmitting from the stove.

You can only imagine the clean up job we had to deal with. Hours upon hours of washing with industrial strenght degreaser. Hundreds of dollars in furniture cleaning and dry cleaning bills. And even still today we are facing repainting our home becuase on exterior walls this grime ate into the paint. 

We spent just under one thousand dollars bring expert after expert into the house top figure out what the heck was wrong and have come up with no solution.

My retailer will not assist me. They stopped carrying the Osburn line and will only offer me an "exceptional deal on a new different brand stove. The company in Montreal that is the "new owner" of the Osburn Manufacturing Line" will not assist me because the original Osburn Manufacturer went bankrupt around the time I bought my stove. They have agreed to look at the stove as long as I pay for the shipping charges there and back. I live in Manitoba and can only imagine the cost of shipping a 500 pound stove all that way. The other issue is that the door does not sit tightly against the stove, the door or the stove is warpped, but which it is cannot be determined unless I send the stove to Montreal. I tried ordering just a door and was told they are no longer manufactured and I cannot get one.

Basically what we are left with is a stove that looks good but we would not dare burn and have not since November of 2004. It makes a good candle holder and plant stand and not much else.  Between the cost of the stove, the thousand bucks in trying to figure out the problem and the huge clean up costs, we are into this stove for well over 5 grand. Pretty expensive candle holder wouldn't you agree. 

Right now I have filed a complaint with the Consumers Bureau but I'm really not holding my breath.


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## wg_bent (Nov 24, 2006)

That sounds a lot more like the chimney was not set up properly.  I only get minor dust from mine.  Did your stove have a hole in it?  It's a welded box, not really likely to leak anywhere except door or flue exit.


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## begreen (Nov 24, 2006)

Who did the door gasket replacement, the dealer or you? Is the gasket a press fit or cemented in? It seems odd that a gasket would fall out if it were glued in place. Have you tried the dollar bill test on the door gasket?


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## Bozlee (Nov 24, 2006)

We have spent over one thousand dollars bringing tecnicians into our home to inspect the stove. No holes and everything including the chimney has been installed correctly. We only burnt well seasoned hard woods and always made sure the chimney was clean.

As far as the casket coming off. In all my  phone calls to the dealer I learned that the stoves that where manufactured around the time the one I bought, they had a casket coming off problem. I intalled two replacement caskets myself and the techs than came into our home installed two of them. But I have e mail after e mail from SBI in Montreal that swears on a stack of bibles that a non sealing door would in no way be the cause of our greasy slime problem. They say that the way these stoves are built to work a non sealing door is a non issue.


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## Bozlee (Nov 24, 2006)

Some people might think that we do not know how to properly burn a stove and that might be the cause of our problem. The same time we bought the osburn we bought a second smaller stove from a different manufacturer. This smaller stove was installed in our free standing all season 600 sq. foot sun house. This stove was installed by the same installer and we burn it exactly the same way as the osburn and have had no greasy slime issues what so ever.


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## begreen (Nov 24, 2006)

Bummer. What a bad experience. I hope you get some resolution here. What is the Osburn connected to? A chimney liner or stubbed into the flue pipe?

FWIW - that is a door "gasket". A "casket" is a container, the most common variety being what they carry you off in, aka a coffin.


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## GVA (Nov 24, 2006)

I would find it extremely odd to have an oily greasy stuff on the walls from a stove, if it's creosote how would this form inside the house?
Is the chimney fully lined?  Does it share a Flue with something else?  Do you have multiple flues here?  Is your other stove on a different chimney?


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## Bozlee (Nov 24, 2006)

Thanks for the giggle...I needed that  Been really stressed out trying to deal with this stove issue. I think the casket thing is probably fruedian on my part .

I hope we see a resolution too but again, not holding my breath. We live in a new upcoming cottage country area with many many new and very expensive cottages being built. I figure if we end up with the status quo on this issue, I am going to drag this stove out to the road, string a zillion lemons all over it and that should send a pretty major message to anyone else building and thinking of buying and Osburn Stove.


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## Bozlee (Nov 24, 2006)

The technical term escapes me but as you can see from the pic I posted the chimney is only used by the one stove, has no angles and is a double lined chimney and sits just over 4 feet above the roof line. I might add I we had a very expensive cap on it that is designed specifically to not allow down drafts. 

Don't know if the stove that covered everything in my house is creosoot or what, all I know it was a brown greasy film that turned black when it was touched by something wet and would not wash off unless with a de-greaser product. 

It is a mystery but my plants look kinda good on the thing wouldn't you say


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## GVA (Nov 24, 2006)

Bozlee said:
			
		

> The technical term escapes me but as you can see from the pic I posted the chimney is only used by the one stove, has no angles and is a double lined chimney and sits just over 4 feet above the roof line. I might add I we had a very expensive cap on it that is designed specifically to not allow down drafts.
> 
> Don't know if the stove that covered everything in my house is creosoot or what, all I know it was a brown greasy film that turned black when it was touched by something wet and would not wash off unless with a de-greaser product.
> 
> It is a mystery but my plants look kinda good on the thing wouldn't you say


Well that answers that question
By saying chimney we are led to believe its masonry which usually has one or more flues.


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## MrGriz (Nov 24, 2006)

I'm surprised to hear that you're having problems with your Osburn.  I have done a ton (too much really) of research into different fireplace inserts and am actually about to drive to the dealer and pick up my Osburn 2200 Insert.  One of the reasons I chose the Osburn is that I couldn't really find any complaints about them.  All the reviews I read were positive or had very minor concerns.  You do now have me second guessing a bit, but I'm going to give it a try.  I do hope you can get your trouble sorted out and fixed, that stove is way too nice to just use as a plant stand :-/


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## begreen (Nov 24, 2006)

Bozlee said:
			
		

> The technical term escapes me but as you can see from the pic I posted the chimney is only used by the one stove, has no angles and is a double lined chimney and sits just over 4 feet above the roof line. I might add I we had a very expensive cap on it that is designed specifically to not allow down drafts.
> 
> Don't know if the stove that covered everything in my house is creosoot or what, all I know it was a brown greasy film that turned black when it was touched by something wet and would not wash off unless with a de-greaser product.
> 
> It is a mystery but my plants look kinda good on the thing wouldn't you say



Sounds like soot to me. Did the stove smoke a lot when you opened the door to load it?


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## Bozlee (Nov 24, 2006)

We did a lot of research as well and if I had to make a guess on what the problem is..it seems likely that we got oursleves a lemon. I do understand that there are lemons out there and can accept the fact that I was sold one. What I have a really hard time with is the total non customer service.  The dealer I bought it from feels a reasonable solution is to sell me a different brand name stove.

Now I was not going to bring this up but...a year ago this past April, a family down the road from us were almost finished building a very beautifull 2000 sq. ft cottage. They had an Osburn Wood Stove installed..I think the 2400. One day the husband came out by himself, was working on some wood work finishing and had the wood stove burning. He walked overe to the neighbors for about five minutes and 45 minutes after that there was nothing but ashes left of his beautiful new cottage. Cause of the fire...the wood stove!  They are just about finished re-building now.


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## Bozlee (Nov 24, 2006)

Once when we lit the stove we had to much smoke come out of the door, hence the down draft proof chimney cap. Other than that there was only the occasional very slight poof of smoke when we opened the door, certainly not enough to cause the mess that was caused. And having researched this matter to the enth degree, I have come to learn that if the glass on the door continually turns black it is the sign of a problem. I can tell you that I did not have to clean the door glass very often.


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## Bozlee (Nov 24, 2006)

Bozlee said:
			
		

> The technical term escapes me but as you can see from the pic I posted the chimney is only used by the one stove, has no angles and is a double lined chimney and sits just over 4 feet above the roof line. I might add I we had a very expensive cap on it that is designed specifically to not allow down drafts.
> 
> Don't know if the stove that covered everything in my house is creosoot or what, all I know it was a brown greasy film that turned black when it was touched by something wet and would not wash off unless with a de-greaser product.
> 
> It is a mystery but my plants look kinda good on the thing wouldn't you say



I'm Canadian and chimney to us is anything masonary or otherwise that sends smoke from the fire source up and out. Sorry didn't mean to confuse the issue .


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## MrGriz (Nov 24, 2006)

Well, the Osburn 2200i is in the back of the pick-up in the garage.  Just waiting on the help that will be here tomorrow for the install!


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## MrGriz (Nov 24, 2006)

tfenn1, back to your original question, from my last post you can see my opinion.  I did look at the 2400 while I was at the shop today.  It looks nice, but I really just love the bay design of the 2200i.  The Quadrafire Bodega Bay is very similar in design and cost, you may want to take a look at that one also.


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## Dave_1 (Nov 25, 2006)

Bozlee,

Need your response to the following in order to help you out because I don’t believe the Osburn is your problem

Do you have a Jenn-Air cook range?

If not, do you have a vent-less exhaust over the cooking stove?

If not, does the vent exhaust out the attic or the roof?

Does the clothes dryer, hot water heater, toilet stacks, furnace, etc all exhaust out the roof, and not into the attic?

Do you ever have inside condensation on the glass inside your house?

If so, in what room(s)?

Does Canada's building code require 6 mil plastic vapor barrier? 

Has anyone ever checked the attic to ensure that a vapor barrier was installed?

Has the house ever had an attic fan?

Am I correct in assuming that your “chimney” height is over 18’ ?

If that height is correct then a loose door is definitely *not *your grease problem. 

My heater has *never * had gaskets. It does not need such because what little air gets by is insufficient to maintain combustion within the heater. My "chimney" is only 13', add another 5' & I would have to tie down my grandkids when I added wood as the draft would be that strong. :lol: 

A strong draft eliminates the possibility of smoke coming out the heater during the run stage.   

As for your neighbor’s experience consider this possibility. 

He had just got the heater adjusted to burn his “*seasoned*” firewood when he decided to go visiting. But when he left the heater was, *in reality*, just finishing expelling the last of the moisture in his fire wood & then getting *serious *about combustion. Since your neighbor had been burning such “*seasoned*” firewood he had inadvertently built up creosote in his “chimney”.  Since the heater had boiled off the water content in the fire wood it now had more than more enough air input to get the heater temp up to the creosote’s flash point &, as they say, his house became toast.

Heaters *seldom * burn down houses. Chimneys do it all the time. ;-) 

Dave


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## BrotherBart (Nov 25, 2006)

What I may have missed in all of these posts is what the primary heat source is for the house. Does it happen to be oil heat?


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## GVA (Nov 25, 2006)

I followed ya on everything except the Jenn-aire cook range?  



I was wondering about that box at the ceiling for the transition through the roof, and if it was posibly leaking into the room.


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## begreen (Nov 25, 2006)

BrotherBart said:
			
		

> What I may have missed in all of these posts is what the primary heat source is for the house. Does it happen to be oil heat?



Good question. I was assuming that since the stove became a flowerstand the problem has stopped. But maybe it's just that the heating season ended.


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## Todd (Nov 25, 2006)

Could it be a bad paint job on the stove or pipe? Maybe the paint or primer was applied when conditions were too humid, and it never cured right? Is the paint gooie or solid? Can you smell anything during the burn?


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## Dave_1 (Nov 25, 2006)

> I followed ya on everything except the Jenn-aire cook range?



GVA, 

the ones that I’ve seen suck the exhaust down, via a duct system under the appliance, & then expel such out the house. So if the duct is loose, broken, etc before the exhaust exits the house, & the house is even modestly air tight, then any fan activity, I.e. air conditioning, central heat, attic fan, etc is going to spread the air born grease. 

It amazes me is they didn’t notice the grease sooner. Seems that the chairs, sofa, etc would have gotten their attention. 



> I was wondering about that box at the ceiling for the transition through the roof, and if it was posibly leaking into the room.



Good point. I’m guessing that it is not the culprit since the evidence would be obvious.

Women that visit us, & who also heat with wood, always remark that our ceiling looks so clean. It is then that their hubbies put their foot in it by stating; “You must not use the heater very often!”, which always cracks my wife up.

I use to try to explain but two sentences into the subject their eyes glaze over & I know they are not interested for they are day tripping. :lol:   

BB, bardoll did it again! ;-)


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## wingnut (Nov 25, 2006)

Is it possible you have a bad heat exchanger in your primary heat source? Is it a oil burner? or could it be the results of a chemical/heat reaction like from the paint on the walls? I have never herd of something like this from an Osburn or any other stove. I would think if your stove was leaking that bad you would have smelled it or would have had to see smoke in the room on a regular basis's.


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## elkimmeg (Nov 25, 2006)

The only circumstance simmilar I witnessed was caused by the oil burner.  The problem resulted in insuffieient draft. 
 When the  oil burner connector pipe was installed,it was pushed in too far into the clay flue liner, thus limited the area it could draft into.
 As mentioned before the puzzle is the greese,  which is not found in wood burning combustion.  As mentioned before I would suspect the oil burned
 then look at  it being a cooking issue. Finally I have seen one incident, where the lady burnt many candles, so much so she sooted up her ceilings


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## Bozlee (Nov 25, 2006)

Dave_1 said:
			
		

> Bozlee,
> 
> Need your response to the following in order to help you out because I don’t believe the Osburn is your problem
> 
> ...


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## Bozlee (Nov 25, 2006)

BrotherBart said:
			
		

> What I may have missed in all of these posts is what the primary heat source is for the house. Does it happen to be oil heat?



EVERYTHING IN OUR HOUSE IS ELECTRIC...WATER HEATER AND FORCED AIR ELECTRIC FURNACE AND AN HRV


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## Bozlee (Nov 25, 2006)

Todd said:
			
		

> Could it be a bad paint job on the stove or pipe? Maybe the paint or primer was applied when conditions were too humid, and it never cured right? Is the paint gooie or solid? Can you smell anything during the burn?



THE STOVE PIPE LOOKS BRAND NEW..NOTHING ODD HAPPENING TO THE PAINT. WISH I WOULD HAVWE FOUND THIS FORUM TWO YEARS AGO...YOU GUYS ARE ARE GREAT WITH ALL THIS BRAIN STORMING..THANKS


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## Bozlee (Nov 25, 2006)

GVA said:
			
		

> I followed ya on everything except the Jenn-aire cook range?
> 
> 
> 
> I was wondering about that box at the ceiling for the transition through the roof, and if it was posibly leaking into the room.



THERE HAS NEVER BEEN ANY SIGN OF SMOKE EMITTING FROM ANY PARTS OF THE STOVE OR STOVE PIPE. WE NEVER SMELLED ANYTHING EITHER EXCEPT THE NORMAL SMELL OF A WOOD FIRE.


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## Bozlee (Nov 25, 2006)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> BrotherBart said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



THE HEATING SEASON IS JUST STARTING HERE IN FREEZING COLD MANITOBA. MY STOVE HAS BEEN A PLANT STAND SINCE THE LASTE FALL OF 2004 WHEN THIS GREASE THING HAPPENED. I DARE NOT BURN IT AGAIN UNTIL THE MYSTERY OF WHY THE GREASE HAPPENED IS SOLVED.


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## Bozlee (Nov 25, 2006)

elkimmeg said:
			
		

> The only circumstance simmilar I witnessed was caused by the oil burner.  The problem resulted in insuffieient draft.
> When the  oil burner connector pipe was installed,it was pushed in too far into the clay flue liner, thus limited the area it could draft into.
> As mentioned before the puzzle is the greese,  which is not found in wood burning combustion.  As mentioned before I would suspect the oil burned
> then look at  it being a cooking issue. Finally I have seen one incident, where the lady burnt many candles, so much so she sooted up her ceilings



HAVING A FORCED AIR ELECTRIC FURNACE NON OF ABOVE WOULD COME INTO PLAY. NOT ONLY DOES THE GREASE THING PERPLEX ME BUT THE WAY IT DISTRIBUTED THROUGH MY HOUSE. NOTHING WAS SPARED AND IT WAS A FINE EVEN FILM UNIFORMLY COATING EVERYTHING. i GUESS THE BEST WAY TO DESCRIBE IT WOULD BE...100 PEOPLE IN MY HOUSE EVERY DAY SMOKING FIVE PACKS OF CIGS DAILY. (WE DON'T SMOKE) NOTHING FELT GREASY TO THE TOUCH WHEN IT WAS DRY. ONCE WATER TOUCHED IT IT WENT FROM THIS BROWN FILM TO BLACK AND PLAIN WATER OR TSP WOULD NOT REMOVE IT...HAD TO USE INDUSTRIAL STRENGHT DE-GREASE. THIS SLIME FOUND IT'S WAY INTO EVEN THE SMALLEST CREVIS AND WAS HEAVIER ON OUSIDE COLDER WALLS...YOU SHOULD HAVE SEEN THE INSIDE OF MY FRIDGE !!


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## begreen (Nov 25, 2006)

Totally wierd. No reason to use the caps locks. SHOUTING is not necessary. Since the stove use stopped has there been any sign of the substance? Have you had the substance analyzed at a lab?


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## Roospike (Nov 25, 2006)

Little lighter , little sharper pic.
 Was it mentioned a blower fan in the stove?
stove blower pulling ash out of the stove ash pan?
How about oils from a fan motor ?
ceiling fan ? 
Other objects in the home used only in the winter?


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## elkimmeg (Nov 25, 2006)

Was the home built during winter? a lot of contractors use keroseen heaters  called torpedo heaters Not all burn clean Is it possible they coated the walls.
 at first one might not notice the film untill it attracted dust which might have taken some time it is possible a little amount of smoke   that escaped from the door
 got attached to the  existing film.  Is the film showing up highlighting your structual framing members under the plaster? Does youe HVAC system control humidity?


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## iceman (Nov 25, 2006)

this sounds scary... it almost sound like your house hase been taken over by mold..... but iside your frig  and even more on colder walls??  without knowing the layout of your house it seems very odd that this substance could spread everywhere in the house ...  you should have the your health dept come and take a look and find out what it is they will take a sample and bring back results..  if indeed it is soot... then it will be obvious that  the draft in your house or in that area is at odds  in my fireplace after it has been running i get smoke back into the room if i don't have the flood lights on over the fire place i would never see i thought it was from me putting wood in...  i can't for the life of me figure out why it happens when the fireplace is burning hot


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## wingnut (Nov 25, 2006)

Have you ever had your house fumigated for bugs of any kind? I am still grasping at straws to help find an answer


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## Dave_1 (Nov 25, 2006)

Bozlee, 

As you know being on site is a definite advantage. In this case you are my eyes & fact checker so until I have a complete picture in my mind of your house will skip the moisture problem until later. Let us continue.

If not, do you have a vent-less exhaust over the cooking stove? 


> YES



*Bingo*! There is your grease source. (Saayyy, you wouldn't be a transplanted Quebecian (aka French) who loves to use kranolla oil?)  :lol:  

Now let us discover its movement. 

I take it that your kitchen is open to the heater’s room?

And when your Osburn was in use the ceiling fan was running?

Which direction does the ceiling fan rotate, clockwise or counter-clockwise? 

I suspect *clockwise *which would lift the room air up from the center & wash it down the rooms walls. 

That being true then in your cleaning you should have discovered that the grease was *predominately *in the heater room, on its ceiling, its walls (not the bedroom ceiling & walls), & the furniture closest to those walls. Tables, chairs, etc toward the center of the room would suffer little grease contamination. 

Is my assumption correct?

And, unless the door of your heater was opened quickly, the central furnace was running, some wood falls out, etc,  you should *never *have smoke in a *Canadian *house with an indoor “chimney“ when the heater‘s door is opened. Better take a look at your "chimney" cap for restriction due to fly ash & or creosote.

Not familiar with the wood you use so will do some research. However, such has *nothing *to do with your grease problem. 


The term "seasoned" is a loose term that is variable since it is left up to the each individual's bias. A moisture meter will prove if the wood is truely "seasoned". I consider @ 10% "seasoned", while @ 6% is "well seasoned". 

( BroBart is on record as being scared to death to smoke around such wood.    )

Meantime please take a breath & don’t name an artic blast after me. I have enough alligators to deal with, so I definitely don‘t need another one. :lol:  ;-)  

Dave


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## hilly (Nov 25, 2006)

Hi Bozlee, 
     I don't know if it will help, but I will share my experience with you. About two years ago we moved into a new house with a ventless fan above the stove. As I was going about my cleaning frenzy I noticed the white cupboards had this gross greasy film on them. Water didn't do anything, I had to us Vim (a strong cream cleanser). I could imagine that if the area had a ceiling fan, this grease would have been spread throughout the house. I also just remembered cleaning my condo before I moved into this house. It had the same set-up as far as the stove fan went, and the tops of the cupboards, in the kitchen, had a few mm of thick grease/fat on them. I couldn't believe how much cleaner it took to get that layer of grease off. 
     My only other thought is that I have never noticed any grease from a fire. Whether I'm handling fire wood, cleaning the glass, taking out the ashes or even removing half burned logs, grease is not something that I come across. If it were me, I would be looking for another source that may have been made worse by running the wood stove. 
I hope you solve your problem because that room in the pic would sure be cozy with a fire going!


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## Todd (Nov 25, 2006)

I really don't think it's the stove, i would fire her up before you freeze. I got to agree with Dave. It sounds like the ventless exhaust. I rented a house once that had a ventless exhaust, and when we first moved in we noticed a greasy film all over the kitchen. We thought we had dark colored cabinets until we started wiping them off and found it was grease that darkened them. Later found the people before us did a lot of cooking in a wok. Do you use that kitchen exhaust fan often? Is the filter clean?


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## Dave_1 (Nov 25, 2006)

Hi Hilly & Todd,

Appreciate your confirming the hazard of vent-less exhausts. 

Hilly, your comment:



> “… If it were me, I would be looking for another source that may have been made worse by running the wood stove….”



is confusing in that you agreed that the vent-less exhaust & ceiling fan are the culprits.

Would you please explain what you meant by “other source”?

Thanks much,

Tfenn1, 

I apologize for hijacking your thread. When Bozlee replies will communicate via pm & not this thread.

Have a good one,

Dave


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## hilly (Nov 25, 2006)

Hi Dave,
I didn't agree that the vent-less and ceiling fans were the culprits, just that I have had experiences with vent-less range hoods that have left grease on the cupboards in the kitchen. If he has ruled out the range hood as the problem, then I think he would need to look elsewhere for his problem and that maybe the running of the woodstove simply made an existing problem worse (more movement of air, etc.). As for other sources, without knowing anything about his home or habits I would just be making wild guesses. I think he needs to make a list of all the things that may put grease/fat/oil into the inside of his house and rule them out one by one.


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## Dave_1 (Nov 25, 2006)

Hey Hilly,



			
				hilly said:
			
		

> Hi Dave,
> I didn't agree that the vent-less and ceiling fans were the culprits, just that I have had experiences with vent-less range hoods that have left grease on the cupboards in the kitchen.



Sorry, but your first post it sure reads that way because:



			
				hilly said:
			
		

> Hi Bozlee,
> I don't know if it will help, but I will share my experience with you. About two years ago we moved into a new house with a ventless fan above the stove. As I was going about my cleaning frenzy I noticed the white cupboards had this gross greasy film on them. Water didn't do anything, I had to us Vim (a strong cream cleanser). I could imagine that if the area had a ceiling fan, this grease would have been spread throughout the house. I also just remembered cleaning my condo before I moved into this house. It had the same set-up as far as the stove fan went, and the tops of the cupboards, in the kitchen, had a few mm of thick grease/fat on them. I couldn't believe how much cleaner it took to get that layer of grease off.



And let the record show that Bozlee is a *she *not a he. Don’t want any more providences succeeding from the country since it increases the taxes Americans must pay for ambassadors in order to support them in a manner that they have grown accustomed to. :lol:  ;-) 

Dave


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## Bozlee (Nov 25, 2006)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> Totally wierd. No reason to use the caps locks. SHOUTING is not necessary. Since the stove use stopped has there been any sign of the substance? Have you had the substance analyzed at a lab?



Sorry...no idea why the caps.....was not shouting

Since we stopped burning the stove there has been no return of the grease film.


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## Bozlee (Nov 25, 2006)

elkimmeg said:
			
		

> Was the home built during winter? a lot of contractors use keroseen heaters  called torpedo heaters Not all burn clean Is it possible they coated the walls.
> at first one might not notice the film untill it attracted dust which might have taken some time it is possible a little amount of smoke   that escaped from the door
> got attached to the  existing film.  Is the film showing up highlighting your structual framing members under the plaster? Does youe HVAC system control humidity?



Yes the house was built during the fall/winter season. prior to the furnace installation the our builder used electric heaters.  This stove was installed March 2003. We did not burn it until fall of 2003-2004. We burnt it everyday and night during that time period. This first year there was no grease build up anywhere. The grease thing happend the second year we started burning and it only took about a month to create the huge mess.


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## Bozlee (Nov 25, 2006)

iceman said:
			
		

> this sounds scary... it almost sound like your house hase been taken over by mold..... but iside your frig  and even more on colder walls??  without knowing the layout of your house it seems very odd that this substance could spread everywhere in the house ...  you should have the your health dept come and take a look and find out what it is they will take a sample and bring back results..  if indeed it is soot... then it will be obvious that  the draft in your house or in that area is at odds  in my fireplace after it has been running i get smoke back into the room if i don't have the flood lights on over the fire place i would never see i thought it was from me putting wood in...  i can't for the life of me figure out why it happens when the fireplace is burning hot



My house is 33 feet wide and 66 feet long single story bungalow with a 4 foot crawl space under the entire house. The crawl space has wood foundation  walls and a cement floor. Nothing has changed in the house since the first year that we burnt the stove without problems. I am berginning to think that these wood stoves are so high tech and so effecient that any number of variables could cause a problem. To try and figure out which variable is the culprit could take forever, if al all.
I'm not so sure that even if we ever solve this problem that I will use the stove again.


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## Roospike (Nov 25, 2006)

Around 700 people have looked at this thread and many being "in-the-know" of wood stoves and many other pro of the field. Stove owner (Bozlee) has been through many pro to find the issue.

Sense nobody seems to know right what the issue is or has even heard of this type issue then its safe to say this is not at all a common problem if 700+ people has never seen or heard of it.

One would think it to be more likely to happen with a fireplace over a wood stove if it was in fact wood burning related. 

I think there is a issue elsewhere in the home or something uncommon the home and or home owner is doing to have such issues that nobody has heard of with the information shown.


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## BrotherBart (Nov 25, 2006)

Roospike said:
			
		

> Around 700 people have looked at this thread and many being "in-the-know" of wood stoves and many other pro of the field. Stove owner (Bozlee) has been through many pro to find the issue.
> 
> Sense nobody seems to know right what the issue is or has even heard of this type issue then its safe to say this is not at all a common problem if 700+ people has never seen or heard of it.
> 
> ...



Yup. But I think that stove is totally worthless and has caused him enough grief and expense. I am ready to send a freight company to save him from having to deal with its defective self anymore. I will see that the stove is suitably disposed of so that it can sin no more. Honest I will.


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## Bozlee (Nov 25, 2006)

hilly said:
			
		

> Hi Bozlee,
> I don't know if it will help, but I will share my experience with you. About two years ago we moved into a new house with a ventless fan above the stove. As I was going about my cleaning frenzy I noticed the white cupboards had this gross greasy film on them. Water didn't do anything, I had to us Vim (a strong cream cleanser). I could imagine that if the area had a ceiling fan, this grease would have been spread throughout the house. I also just remembered cleaning my condo before I moved into this house. It had the same set-up as far as the stove fan went, and the tops of the cupboards, in the kitchen, had a few mm of thick grease/fat on them. I couldn't believe how much cleaner it took to get that layer of grease off.
> My only other thought is that I have never noticed any grease from a fire. Whether I'm handling fire wood, cleaning the glass, taking out the ashes or even removing half burned logs, grease is not something that I come across. If it were me, I would be looking for another source that may have been made worse by running the wood stove.
> I hope you solve your problem because that room in the pic would sure be cozy with a fire going!



I total know what you mean about grease on top of the cabinets....I hate that and clean that area every month. The stuff that was covering my house was different than that. It's so very hart to describe. It did not feel greasy when it was dry and not even that greasy when it was wet. But the only thing that would wash it away was water laced with industrial strength de-greaser. When wate rtouched this browny film it immediatly turned black. When I first saw this mess I stripped the bedding off our bed and threw it into the washer. The instant the sheet touched the water it turned jet black.


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## Bozlee (Nov 25, 2006)

Dave_1 said:
			
		

> Hey Hilly,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Oh dave...your are sounding very much like an ex-pat to me....I heard on the news today that Quebec is looking at joining you down there is aligator country .  No woories about us Manitobans suceeding...we could never afford it


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## Bozlee (Nov 25, 2006)

BrotherBart said:
			
		

> Roospike said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'll go you one better....Something tells me that 10 thousand people with stoves can read this and report back that they have never heard of such a thing.  Personally I think Mr. Murphy's Law has taken up residency on top of my house and when you come to pick up my stove could you please take him with you as well ....and Bozlee is a She not a He and She says you can have my 25 cords of wood along with my lovely little Osburn Candle holder/plant stand. When can I expect the frieght company to come by


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## BrotherBart (Nov 25, 2006)

Bozlee said:
			
		

> ....and Bozlee is a She not a He...



Whoops!

It has to be a maddening situation, as well as expensive. But even Murphy doesn't know how to grease up the inside and/or the outside of a house with a wood stove. That Osburn is getting way more credit than it deserves.

Of course the only way to find the cause is the process of elimination at this point. And hopefully you find the source soon so you can burn the stove once again with confidence as well as get this nightmare over with.


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## GVA (Nov 25, 2006)

Wow this thread is starting to need it's own server..
I got a question where is the outside air hooked up for the stove?
Can you take pictures of the outside.  Like the roof area or
your expensive cap on the pipe, nearby vents soffits ridge vents etc.

It would be funny if this thread went on for so long and the installer put the wrong termination cap on or there is a vent or some type of air intake near the pipe sucking the exhaust back in to the house. 
O.K. not funny but maybe we had too much eggnog this week and are not real focused %-P


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## MountainStoveGuy (Nov 25, 2006)

Wow, i just read this thread. Intresting problem. One that i definaltly havent heard of unless there is a poor draft situation, or if wax logs are being burned with the door open. Its definaltly very strange, and very very rare, i would think that any stove you put in there would do the same thing. My point is, a stove is pretty inert. There all designed the same way (basicly). A stove just doesnt throw excess soot on every square inch of a house. Did you ever burn wax logs in it?


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## begreen (Nov 26, 2006)

Bozlee said:
			
		

> BeGreen said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Was the "grease" ever analyzed? That might point to the source of the problem. It would be great to know if it's animal fat  or paraffin based.


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## GVA (Nov 26, 2006)

Bozlee I have noticed that your new to the forum so welcome.
Now where are we......  Oh yeah the knowledge base here on the forum is quite extensive and I'm sure that the wood burners could get your problems solved.
It is possible that the home builders or installers did something wrong with the setup of the pipe/cap.  Or your house venting setup could be adding to this grease problem.  The cap that is supposed to keep downdrafts could actually cause back pressure so that leaky door gasket would come into play here but under normal conditions with the pipe set up like you have, you should have quite a bit of draft pulling at the stove.  So if you could post some pics of the outside of the home for us and I'm sure that these guy's will solve your problem.
But maybe tommorow cause it's FOOTBALL SEASON and it get's pretty quite around here on sundays. ;-P 
Well hopefully we'll here from you soon.


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## begreen (Nov 26, 2006)

I'd want to know what the substance is before placing the blame. Could be as obscure as a blocked or stuck backdraft damper in range hood duct.


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## wg_bent (Nov 26, 2006)

Hmm...I just read through this whole thread, and I'm probably responsible for at least a few Osburn sales, as I'm quite pleased with my 1800i.  

I'm really wondering if it's grease or something else.  Since there's no grease that comes from a wood stove, ie no grease in wood, and creosote doesn't come out of a stove and cover things inside a home, I'm wondering if it's something else.  Have you ever cooked on the stove?  Were you burning the other stove at the same time?  Why not blame the other stove?  Since you had a successful first season with the stove, that would seem to rule out the stove.  

I'd say definitely get the black stuff analyzed.


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## Bozlee (Nov 27, 2006)

GVA said:
			
		

> Bozlee I have noticed that your new to the forum so welcome.
> Now where are we......  Oh yeah the knowledge base here on the forum is quite extensive and I'm sure that the wood burners could get your problems solved.
> It is possible that the home builders or installers did something wrong with the setup of the pipe/cap.  Or your house venting setup could be adding to this grease problem.  The cap that is supposed to keep downdrafts could actually cause back pressure so that leaky door gasket would come into play here but under normal conditions with the pipe set up like you have, you should have quite a bit of draft pulling at the stove.  So if you could post some pics of the outside of the home for us and I'm sure that these guy's will solve your problem.
> But maybe tommorow cause it's FOOTBALL SEASON and it get's pretty quite around here on sundays. ;-P
> Well hopefully we'll here from you soon.



Thanks for the welcome...here's the best pic I have at the moment of the outside of our house.

I think it's time for me to throw in the towel on this. I made one more last ditch effort by having two fellows come to the house today, one a Certified Home Inspector the other a WET Certified Tech. The Home Inspector went through every posiible thing with a fine tooth comb and reports that there is nothing wacky with my house that could have caused this problem. Everyhing is working and venting as it should and nothing is creating a negative pressure in the house. He did however correct me on the grease thing. He says what covered my house is not "grease" per say but something grease or oily based.

The Wet Certified Tech checked and double checked the stove and stove pipe. He said all was installed correctly. He could not however determine wether the stove door or the stove itself is warped causing the door not to shut tightly.

As a final check we did an experiment. I have two large windows on either side of the stove. We made very sure the glass, casings and sills where perfectly clean. Then we lit the stove. Except for when the kindling started to ignite, there was no smoke and what there was went up the chimney not into the house. We had it burning for about and hour with both the furnace and HRV running and then let it die out. I then took a piece of paper towel wet down with a water/de-greaser mix and wiped it across the window glass and the frame and sills....the paper towel turned black. We repeated the experiment, this time without the furnace or HRV running...same result! One hour of burning and this brown film started to accumulate already.

When I wiped the window with a dry paper towel nothing came off on the paper. When I wiped it with a water soaked piece the window got smeary but nothing came off on the paper. When I wiped it with water/de-greaser mix the brown film turned black and and what ever this stuff is came off the window, casing and sill.

Neither Tech could come up with a reason why this is happening but both are certain the wood stove is the cause of it. Both indicated that this stove is malfuntioning for some reason and feel it is both a fire and carbon monoxide hazard.

Including these two guys, we have now spent over $1500 bringing people here to try and figure out this mess. You guys have been great in your brainstorming and to date..virtually no assistance from Osburn and certainly none from the retailer who sold me this stove. 

I'm at my witts end with this and have no more ideas what else to do except send this stove off to the local landfill.


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## Bozlee (Nov 27, 2006)

Bozlee said:
			
		

> GVA said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## wg_bent (Nov 27, 2006)

Well, that's a bummer.  

In the "for what it's worth dept" I get nothing like that from my 1800i stove.  I've been quite happy with it, and there is nothing like what your describing.    My only issues with it are keeping my hearth clean which I know would be better with an ash pan type stove, and that I wish I had a bigger firebox, but neither are the stove's fault.

If you do decide to replace the stove, I think we'll all be interested in what you get, and the follow on results with a different stove.  

Please let us know.


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## Bozlee (Nov 27, 2006)

Warren said:
			
		

> Well, that's a bummer.
> 
> In the "for what it's worth dept" I get nothing like that from my 1800i stove.  I've been quite happy with it, and there is nothing like what your describing.    My only issues with it are keeping my hearth clean which I know would be better with an ash pan type stove, and that I wish I had a bigger firebox, but neither are the stove's fault.
> 
> ...



Thanks Warren, not sure what we are going to do at this point. I have filed a complaint with the Canadian Consumer's Bureau because I have had no response back from our retailer and SBI in Montreal ( the new owner's of Osburn) want me to bare the cost of shipping the stove 3000 kilometers and back. NOT Once the Consumer's people do what they do and we still get nowhere I will have a stove for sale VERY CHEAP and it has an ash pan and a bigger fire box  Just kidding ;-P

Will probably just grin and bear the high cost of using my electric furnace for heat. Thanks bunches for your efforts in helping me.

Happy FOOTBALLING


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## GVA (Nov 27, 2006)

Hi It's me again, I found the problem........................................It's the dogs you need to get rid of them.............................I'm kidding Jeeze come on now :cheese: 

Just some observations from beyond the tree line of birch.  I'll let the experts chime in on this one...  Cause me ha...ha...ha......  Read the signature people
1)  The cap opening seems kind of small for the size of the pipe.
2)  Pretty close to the ridge vent (not sure if this has anything to do with anything at all)
3) can't see where the fresh air intake is on the wall
4)  is that a protrusion in the wall (outward) between the 2 windows?  and if so what is the purpose of it?

Well If it was me and I wasn't getting anywhere I know you have spend a bit of money here on this thing but I would look at extending that pipe up a couple of feet more from the ridge and maybe at a minimum remove that cap and test it again.

Then If that doesn't lead you down the right path Then craig will pay the shipping to western mass and we will perform an online autopsy With hammers and grinders in hand....  Roospike Will handle the virtual Oxy acetylene torch and Me with the Plasma cutter Then we will have either a solution or a puddle of metal :lol:

Allright maybe not...... ;-)


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## Roospike (Nov 27, 2006)

GVA said:
			
		

> Hi It's me again, I found the problem........................................It's the dogs you need to get rid of them.............................I'm kidding Jeeze come on now :cheese:
> 
> Just some observations from beyond the tree line of birch. I'll let the experts chime in on this one... Cause me ha...ha...ha...... Read the signature people
> 1) The cap opening seems kind of small for the size of the pipe.
> ...



******** Hey ! :cheese: ********** Now that sounds like fun.

Another thought to the issue ..................
Stove is double wall pipe , maybe an issue of the inner pipe of the double wall ? 
The stove is going to be sucking air so i cant see that the stove is going to be letting out anything except the stack , the pipe is going to be pushing so i would think if there was a spot to be letting out smoke/ash/emissions it would be in the pipe.


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## GVA (Nov 28, 2006)

Yeah I'm curious About that pipe too, more specifically that transition piece at the ceiling and maybe what's on the other side of the ceiling Where the airspace and ridgevent is.......Is it one of those passive heating homes where the air circulates around the outer shell of the house (hence that protrusion in the wall).
Were the contractors building this house qualified like is that pipe even sealed properly..
Is there a leak between the ceiling and the roof and that ceiling fan is just pulling it back down through it's leaky hole in the ceiling and spreading it around the room and house?
Lot's of variable are possible.
Well screw it................................... Show of hands for the autopsy....... ;-) 
And Bozlee we may need the pipe and cap too.. :lol:


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## wingnut (Nov 28, 2006)

I still cant believe that if your windows and walls are getting this (grease) on them after a hour or so of burning that you 1 don't see or smell it? Try using a stick of incests and see if your getting any positive pressure any were from the stove/pipe. also set up a carbon monoxide detector in the area to see if anything shows up! Check around were the air vents out from the fan. Could there be a problem with the secondary burn chamber and were it vents into the room? I have the 2200 insert and it works great! Good Luck and I hope you get this resolved!

Paul


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## Bozlee (Nov 28, 2006)

GVA said:
			
		

> Hi It's me again, I found the problem........................................It's the dogs you need to get rid of them.............................I'm kidding Jeeze come on now :cheese:
> 
> Just some observations from beyond the tree line of birch.  I'll let the experts chime in on this one...  Cause me ha...ha...ha......  Read the signature people
> 1)  The cap opening seems kind of small for the size of the pipe.
> ...



Geez don't let the boys hear you say that...they make way less mess than that darn wood stove of mine 

The cap was recommended to me by the Osburn people (?) and the chimney sit over 4 feet from the roof line, which I have been told is more than adequate. The fresh air intake is down below the window in the centre of the two windows. The front of the house is designed in a slight V shape which is the protusion you are seeing

Now lets talk about that autopsy....no way is that happening without me  I wanna watch that sucker go down into a pile of molten metal....revenge is sweet and it's gotta be mine


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## BrotherBart (Nov 28, 2006)

wingnut said:
			
		

> Try using a stick of incests and see if your getting any positive pressure any were...



Well, at least it will make you forget about the stove problem for awhile!


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## wingnut (Nov 28, 2006)

One last thought.  Warren and I dont have any problem with our Osburn stoves,but we dont have an ash draw! could this be the problem?  Did you try the incents smoke test?


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## Bozlee (Nov 28, 2006)

wingnut said:
			
		

> I still cant believe that if your windows and walls are getting this (grease) on them after a hour or so of burning that you 1 don't see or smell it? Try using a stick of incests and see if your getting any positive pressure any were from the stove/pipe. also set up a carbon monoxide detector in the area to see if anything shows up! Check around were the air vents out from the fan. Could there be a problem with the secondary burn chamber and were it vents into the room? I have the 2200 insert and it works great! Good Luck and I hope you get this resolved!
> 
> Paul



Secondary burn chamber ? Huh now you are talking over my head. OK I got the incest (insence  ) what am I supposed to do with it ?

I am happy that you 2200 works good for you.  How about taking a video clip of a nice fire burning in it and I at least I'll get to see it burning vicariously through yours  Ahh what the heck..to many variables to try and figure this thing out. Gonna tear the house down and rebuld it around the stove..see if that'll work 

I bet I have the only lemon Osburn on the planet.............autopsy melt down 3 pm this saturday....everyone welcome...BYOB


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## wg_bent (Nov 28, 2006)

BrotherBart said:
			
		

> wingnut said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Maybe he's burning some of them big bales of bio bricks and the incense would be used to cover the smell.

It sure does seem odd that you get the effect in only an hour of burning.  What kind of wood?  If you take the stack off the stove and put positive pressure on the stack with some incense or a little burned newspaper to create some smoke...where does the stove leak?  If I were you I'd take that thing out into the garage and start doing some serious testing.  

I'd want to know why at this point.  Once you do find out...maybe Corie would be the guy to disect...then he can figure out how to make it into Corie 2.

StoveZilla!


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## Bozlee (Nov 28, 2006)

wingnut said:
			
		

> One last thought.  Warren and I dont have any problem with our Osburn stoves,but we dont have an ash draw! could this be the problem?  Did you try the incents smoke test?



Yup and the house smells hippie like now   Lit the incents, turned off all the lights in the house, shone a 1,000,000 canlde watt flashlight all around the stove and pipe, kinda like Sherlock Holmes might do, to see wafting smoke and nada. Next call goes to Ghost Busters and then we're having that autopsy...don't forget BYOB. Hey if I can't laugh about this what else am I gonna do. 
Hey but I now have me a new incents burner/plant stand . It's minus 25 celcius out here and I'd love to have a nice fire roaring  but alas can't get much of a falme from that cherry wood smelling incents.

Thanks guys you've been great with all your suggestions...really


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## elkimmeg (Nov 28, 2006)

I noticed how your home sits in relationship to  tall large fur trees Eventhough your chimney may meet current clearance lenght above the roof, You still may need more height,  due to taller objects surounding your home.  I think your setting h is part of the issue do you ever experience pipe /fir pollen?.   that would leave a fine clear film on things.  your draft may not be as good as you think the taller trees can deflect winds to create a downdraft condition added  chimney length would improve.  
Have you ever experienced mold conditions? I'm looking at your home setup a the way it appears to be dwarfted by trees


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## Bozlee (Nov 28, 2006)

Warren said:
			
		

> BrotherBart said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This stove has no idea how close it is to "becoming a big bio brick" .  That is exactly the problem...no leaks visible to the naked eye or nose. At least if there was we might get to the bottom of this mystery. And yes I have given serious thought to taking it out to the garage but "testing it" is not exactly how I would describe what I would do to it  

Any ideas how I am going to carry this 500 pound lemon out to the garage


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## Bozlee (Nov 28, 2006)

elkimmeg said:
			
		

> I noticed how your home sits in relationship to  tall large fur trees Eventhough your chimney may meet current clearance lenght above the roof, You still may need more height,  due to taller objects surounding your home.  I think your setting h is part of the issue do you ever experience pipe /fir pollen?.   that would leave a fine clear film on things.  your draft may not be as good as you think the taller trees can deflect winds to create a downdraft condition added  chimney length would improve.
> Have you ever experienced mold conditions? I'm looking at your home setup a the way it appears to be dwarfted by trees



That has been mentioned to me before as a possibility. The pic is actually decieving. All around the house is about 100 feet of clear space before the trees most of which a poplars. We lost all our fir trees this past spring when a tornado came through our front yard. Never had any mold in our house. We live in the heart of cottage country and pretty much all of my neighbors have wood stoves and they have the trees almost against the house and no problems for them. Just me, cause Murphy's Law live on my roof


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## Roospike (Nov 28, 2006)

Said the inside of the home is 13' tall? and a 4' pipe on top? minus the stove and raised hearth ( -3' ) 
That puts the chimney at only 14'  What is the min height for this model ?


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## Roospike (Nov 28, 2006)

I think its the pipe , If i was a dealer with this issue i would take the double wall pipe out and run a SS liner from stove to the top and check it that way first before thinking it was the stove.


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## Bozlee (Nov 28, 2006)

Roospike said:
			
		

> Said the inside of the home is 13' tall? and a 4' pipe on top? minus the stove and raised hearth ( -3' )
> That puts the chimney at only 14'  What is the min height for this model ?



Not sure the minimum height cause the manual sucks. But hubby and I have decided that we will add anothe two to three feet to the outside pf the pipe...gonna pick it up tomorrow, If that does not make a difference I am hanging the white flag out.

By the way...saw the pic of your  red stove...very nice ! Wanna trade


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## Roospike (Nov 28, 2006)

Bozlee said:
			
		

> Roospike said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks. Trade Queen Bethany*!? A.........hummmmm , Let me think about it.... *NO!* ,
O' , sorry ... i mean no thank you. ;-) 


Dont forget to check over your interior double wall pipe and the inner pipe on her to make sure she is sealed all the way up.

*note: Stove name "Queen Bethany" ~ Queen -Beth -Any
Queen ~ Queen Ann legs
Beth ~ Slow rolling song "Beth" like the flames of the stove
Any ~ She will burn any wood i put in her.


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## MrGriz (Nov 28, 2006)

I've been quietly following this thread for some time.

Just my .02 and it's not really worth 1/2 of that.  Was that pipe, or the stove painted prior to installation?  I'm just sitting here smelling the paint cure on the 2200i I just installed and it got me to thinking that if the pipe or stove had been painted with defective or improper paint, it could be giving off some type of material.

You said that on the last test burns the build up was on the windows.  They appear to be behind and to the sides of the stove.  If the stove were emitting something as it circulated air, wouldn't it be coming from the front of the stove and tend to build up elsewhere first?  Whereas an emission or off gassing from the pipe would radiate from all sides.

I'm really just grasping at straws (or pipes).


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## elkimmeg (Nov 28, 2006)

Couple of thoughts  what do you have concering flooring  Hardwood or ww carpet?  You keep saying the home is a cottage, If you already explained it please humor me again.

 If getting a black film on things I would think 30 years of burning two stoves I would have found it. I am alsoa builder and A building inspector not a home inspector.
 I have never seen what you are describing. I think there is something in your interior enviorment that is acentuated by the wood stove usage. or the heating currents the wood stove  produces
 that causes some kind of reaction. Again I would do as suggested get a sample tested if you knew what it was then finding the source would be easier


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## wingnut (Nov 28, 2006)

I guess I should have been more clear on the insents thing. Light a stick and you use the smoke off the stick to help find positive or negative leaks by passing it around all the pipe joints the door seal and so on.  Look to see if smoke does anything other than goes strieght up.  I just hate to see you chop up a good stove IF its not the stove.


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## Bozlee (Nov 29, 2006)

elkimmeg said:
			
		

> Couple of thoughts  what do you have concering flooring  Hardwood or ww carpet?  You keep saying the home is a cottage, If you already explained it please humor me again.
> 
> If getting a black film on things I would think 30 years of burning two stoves I would have found it. I am alsoa builder and A building inspector not a home inspector.
> I have never seen what you are describing. I think there is something in your interior enviorment that is acentuated by the wood stove usage. or the heating currents the wood stove  produces
> that causes some kind of reaction. Again I would do as suggested get a sample tested if you knew what it was then finding the source would be easier



We have ceramic tile and laminate through-out the house. We live in cottage country. Our house turned 3 years old March of this year and is built to all building codes. The thing that perplexes us so much is that nothing has changed in the house over the course of this three years, nothing added and nothing removed. The first year we burnt the stove, 2003-2004 fall and winter season, we burnt it almost day and night and not a single problem. When we started burning it again in October of 2004, within a month we discovered the mess.  

I have cleaned every square inch of my house of this mess except for the closet in one of the bedrooms which houses many shelves of paperwork. Tomorrow I am going to empty the closet, wipe down the walls and take the wipe cloth to a lab in the city to have analized. Probably won't get an answer back for some time, but what the heck, I'm not burning the stove anyway at this point.

I do have one question. We purchased a chimney cleaning brush and used it after the 03-04 burning season. The brush is some sort of metal and do you think it is at all possible that using the brush caused some sort of damage inside the stove pipe.


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## Bozlee (Nov 29, 2006)

MrGriz said:
			
		

> I've been quietly following this thread for some time.
> 
> Just my .02 and it's not really worth 1/2 of that.  Was that pipe, or the stove painted prior to installation?  I'm just sitting here smelling the paint cure on the 2200i I just installed and it got me to thinking that if the pipe or stove had been painted with defective or improper paint, it could be giving off some type of material.
> 
> ...



If I burnt the stove for longer than an hour this stuff would permiate through-out my entire house for sure. It does seem to however attract faster and heavier to colder areas like the windows, exterior walls and ceilings including inside my fridge.


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## Bozlee (Nov 29, 2006)

wingnut said:
			
		

> I guess I should have been more clear on the insents thing. Light a stick and you use the smoke off the stick to help find positive or negative leaks by passing it around all the pipe joints the door seal and so on.  Look to see if smoke does anything other than goes strieght up.  I just hate to see you chop up a good stove IF its not the stove.



Now do I feel silly or what putting the incence into the stove. :-(

So now I have done what you suggested and held the stick all along the stove pipe from top to bottom, the transition box,  around the body of the stove and all around the door...smoke went straight up all the time.


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## begreen (Nov 29, 2006)

Bozlee said:
			
		

> I do have one question. We purchased a chimney cleaning brush and used it after the 03-04 burning season. The brush is some sort of metal and do you think it is at all possible that using the brush caused some sort of damage inside the stove pipe.



Burned normally up to this point, hmmm. Has the flue interior been visually inspected for damage? What type of pipe is this? Double or single wall inside, then class A at the ceiling box? What parts of the flue were detached in order to clean it? How is the stove pipe attached to the class A at the ceiling box? Is it correctly locked in place?


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## iceman (Nov 29, 2006)

just taking a poke because i have been following this thred as well ........      when you fired up your stove did you use the fan? (the stove fan)  
I am by no means an expert but find it really hard to understand why that stove would give you those problems IF everything is sealed the way it should be....   what is the beinng changed by the heat..  I know you have spent alot but i would really try to send that stuff out and get it tested which will give you the answer....  it could be an       X-FILE  thing who knows this is just weird


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## wingnut (Nov 29, 2006)

And you thought I was smoking the stuff!!   Good Luck I hope you get it resolved


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## Bozlee (Nov 29, 2006)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> Bozlee said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yup that's all been inspected and all it good and tight. It's a double lined stove pipe. When we cleaned the chimney we did so from the roof. When we the WET Cerified Tech out here the other day, he disconneted the stove pipe from the top of the stove and cleaned any gunk out from the top of the stove (hardly anything was there)


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## Bozlee (Nov 29, 2006)

Bozlee said:
			
		

> elkimmeg said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Elkimmeg....here's a question for you (or anyone else who might have a thought). Since today was my day off I decided to spend it walking around my house playeing detective to see if I could find any obscure clues to this mystery. A lot of you have mentioned venting in my home. I rarely to never use my ventless rangehood, the furnace and HRV are working properly (don't use the HRV when burning the stove) and all the stacks on the roof are clear and free of obstruction. Then my brain kicked in and I remebered the dryer vent. We have a main floor laundry room and I would say my dryer is around 30 or so feet way from the wood stove The dryer vent comes from outside then foloows the floor joists, up through the wall behind my dryer. I pulled the dryer out tis morning and found that the flex hose from the dryer to the outside vent had come 3/4 off !! I realize that the dryer expelles exhaust but with the flex hose having come off, and the wall vent being pen to air, does anyone think this could come into play. The only way I guess I am going to find out is if I light the stove but I gotta tell you I'm real scared to do that cause I can't face the house covered in this grime again. Thoughts?


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## BrotherBart (Nov 29, 2006)

Fillet of a fenny snake, 
In the cauldron boil and bake; 
Eye of newt, and toe of frog,
Wool of bat, and tongue of dog, 
Adder’s fork, and blind-worm’s sting, 
Lizard’s leg, and howlet’s wing, 
For a charm of powerful trouble,
Like a hell-broth boil and bubble.


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## Bozlee (Nov 29, 2006)

BrotherBart said:
			
		

> Fillet of a fenny snake,
> In the cauldron boil and bake;
> Eye of newt, and toe of frog,
> Wool of bat, and tongue of dog,
> ...



OK I printed this little chant and posted it on the wood stove door.......  Hey what the heck...tried everything else to date


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## elkimmeg (Nov 29, 2006)

First of all flexible plawstic dryer vent has been illegal since 1988 I know it is still sold. Also code states the flexible dryer duct can only be 6' long and that it cannot be used in concealed locations.  From your description there is also a total lenght restriction which yours exceeded.  Nothing was correct about your dryer vent
 Now what are the ramifications, mold and mildew which will turn black when gathered up while cleaning and mixed with degreesers like amonia. 
 For every loadf of towels,  that dryer has to  vaporize ans exhaust one gallon of water. Thats a lot of moisture added to a home enough to add to mold and mildew mold and mildew spores are present in the air.  It need moisture to incubate windows hot on one side cold on the other, outside walls ,moldings  electrical outlets on outside walls take a few cover off see if there iare signs of condensation on the wires or metal connectors. I will bet there is.  your poly vapor barier is there to prevent moisture from the outside but also prevents it from e inrerior moisture from escaping. Hey If I right Can you ship me that no good stove. Its not the stove. but the stove could create the hot air currents to promote the condition. I going to look at the HUD info about mold and mildew tonight and add to this post


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## iceman (Nov 29, 2006)

[quote author="iceman" date="1164480607"]this sounds scary... it almost sound like your house hase been taken over by mold..... but iside your frig  and even more on colder walls??  without knowing the layout of your house it seems very odd that this substance could spread everywhere in the house ...  you should have the your health dept come and take a look and find out what it is they will take a sample and bring back results..  if indeed it is soot... then it will be obvious that  the draft in your house or in that area is at odds


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## iceman (Nov 29, 2006)

iceman said:
			
		

> iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## elkimmeg (Nov 29, 2006)

Iceman I am not taking credit for mold being thew problem I know others mentioned it in the past so did I.
 when I saw the home layout dwafted by trees  At first we were lead to bleive it was a wood stove  issue My first post I dispelled that thought 
 But if you were first kndo to you We just had to keep looking and getting her to investigate it. Now a moisture source has been found 
 that moisture could be comming out every ceiling fixture and using the wood stove warm convection currents aND FINDING A PLACE TO CONDENSATE ON
 sorry not shouting just hit the caps key. There has to be a logical solution


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## iceman (Nov 29, 2006)

elkimmeg said:
			
		

> Iceman I am not taking credit for mold being thew problem I know others mentioned it in the past so did I.
> when I saw the home layout dwafted by trees  At first we were lead to bleive it was a wood stove  issue My first post I dispelled that thought
> But if you were first kndo to you We just had to keep looking and getting her to investigate it. Now a moisture source has been found
> that moisture could be comming out every ceiling fixture and using the wood stove warm convection currents aND FINDING A PLACE TO CONDENSATE ON
> sorry not shouting just hit the caps key. There has to be a logical solution




I am sorry I was not trying to make you think that what i was thinking....  i was glad to hear it because i was thinking it was a stupid suggestion but the more i kept reading the more i was thinking mold/ call the health dept
no offense taken... once again I am sorry that thats how i came across


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## Roospike (Nov 29, 2006)

MOLD!? Yeah , i was thinking that too ..................

now i just need to go back and edit my first post . :lol: 

Now mold makes sense , wood stove soot does not.


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## elkimmeg (Nov 30, 2006)

Is it possible that Roo Iceman and I agree along with steve loddy lordy I beeeee


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## begreen (Nov 30, 2006)

I love a good puzzle and this has been a great one. Good thoughts Elk! New tight house construction, crud forming on cold surfaces, leaky dryer vent - great clues. If it is mold or mildew, odds are bleach will dissolve it. Bozlee, dilute some bleach from the bottle at maybe about a tablespoon to 1/2 cup of water. Try some diluted bleach solution on an area of the black crud. Does it take it off? If you put some in a spray bottle and spray a black surface does it turn light brown then go away? Be careful not to overspray on nearby fabric or it will get bleached too.


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## wingnut (Nov 30, 2006)

Boy oh Boy this just keeps getting better all the time!  At this point you wish its your Osburn and not the mold thing.  But hay send us the pictures of the sledg a thon on the stove this weekend.  By the way type of insulation do have in the walls? Could this be giving off some sort of gas??  But inside your refrigerator too??  That is odd!


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## Bozlee (Nov 30, 2006)

elkimmeg said:
			
		

> First of all flexible plawstic dryer vent has been illegal since 1988 I know it is still sold. Also code states the flexible dryer duct can only be 6' long and that it cannot be used in concealed locations.  From your description there is also a total lenght restriction which yours exceeded.  Nothing was correct about your dryer vent
> Now what are the ramifications, mold and mildew which will turn black when gathered up while cleaning and mixed with degreesers like amonia.
> For every loadf of towels,  that dryer has to  vaporize ans exhaust one gallon of water. Thats a lot of moisture added to a home enough to add to mold and mildew mold and mildew spores are present in the air.  It need moisture to incubate windows hot on one side cold on the other, outside walls ,moldings  electrical outlets on outside walls take a few cover off see if there iare signs of condensation on the wires or metal connectors. I will bet there is.  your poly vapor barier is there to prevent moisture from the outside but also prevents it from e inrerior moisture from escaping. Hey If I right Can you ship me that no good stove. Its not the stove. but the stove could create the hot air currents to promote the condition. I going to look at the HUD info about mold and mildew tonight and add to this post



I may not have explained myself correctly. The main floor laundry room is about 30 or so feet away from the living room where the stove is. The dryer vent exhausts outside via a metal pipe that comes from outside ( through the foundation wall, into the basement between the floor joists, up and through the wall. From the dryer to this metal vent is a 6 -8 inch silver foil type flex  hose. This flex hose is what came off at the dryer end. I definitly do understand the moisture content that emiits from the dryer vent. My HRV has a humidistat on it which is reading a humidity level of about 30 to 35 percent right now.

The stove was installed March of 2002. We burnt it like crazy from October 2003 to late March of 2004 and nothing nasty happened with that. It's far too hot here in the summer and from March to October of 2004 we did not burn the stove at all. Then we started burning it sometime in October of 2004 and sometime during the first half of December I discovered my house covered in this brown film. We immediatly stopped burning the stove. We cleaned the house from top to bottom and have not lit the stove since except for the other day when we has the two Inspectors out. Since we cleaned the house and stopped burning the stove, this mess has not re-appeared and at this time my house is clean and free of any soot, grease or what ever that stuff was.  When the Inspectors lit the stove last week clean windows directly adjacent to the stove, within an hour showed signs of this crud building up again.  

The dryer vent coming off and obviously being off for awhile of course was not a good thing but I do not have mold or mildew anywhere in the house. I did remove face plates from outside wall switches and plugs and there is no sign of moisture on any of them. There is no sign of moisture anywhere in the house. My thoughts on the dryer vent coming loose was lweaning more towards that possibly creating a negative pressure in the house.

This brown film that turns black only when touched by water, only appears when I am burning the stove and at no other time.  That is what is so frustrating for me. We have this very nice looking stove sitting here staring at me, tons of expensive firewood waiting to be burnt and we have not felt comfortable burning this stove since the fall of 2004. I would like nothing more than to light that sucker and turn down my money eating electric furnace but I cannot risk that kind of mess in my house again.

I know most of you are certain that the stove is not the cause of the problem but it has to be. If it's not the problem, why then has this browm crud not re appeared since I stopped burning the stove ? Do any of you smoke or been somewhere where there is a lot of smoking? Better yet, do any of you know a heavy smoker who has that brown nicotine stain on their fingers? That is as close a description I can give you to what our stove emitted all over our house. (nobody smokes here).

We are now in the clutches of winter out here and I would love to light a nice warm fire in the stove but until I can solve this mystery there is no way I would dare. I hope you folks are not getting frustrated with me, though I would totally understand if you are because I'm well into being frustrated with this mystery. I solve mysteries for a living and this one has me beat.  I do very much appreciate all your brainstorming in effort to help me solve it.


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## begreen (Nov 30, 2006)

Not frustrated at all Bozlee. Like I said, I love a good puzzle. Here's another hypothesis: If it's the stove, then another guess would be stove paint. If the stove or stove pipe was repainted for some reason and "if" the paint was not high-temp, perhaps some interesting things could happen there. Just another guess. The lab results are really key here.


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## Bozlee (Nov 30, 2006)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> I love a good puzzle and this has been a great one. Good thoughts Elk! New tight house construction, crud forming on cold surfaces, leaky dryer vent - great clues. If it is mold or mildew, odds are bleach will dissolve it. Bozlee, dilute some bleach from the bottle at maybe about a tablespoon to 1/2 cup of water. Try some diluted bleach solution on an area of the black crud. Does it take it off? If you put some in a spray bottle and spray a black surface does it turn light brown then go away? Be careful not to overspray on nearby fabric or it will get bleached too.



BeGreen...when we cleaned this stuff nothing would budge it except water laced with a de-greaser product or on some spots straight de-greaser. Keep in mind that this stuff was not just on colder surfaces but every single thing in the house. It was just more predominate on colder surfaces.  I should also add that this mess was confined to the main floor of the house. We have a full 4 foot high crawl space with a concrete floor under the house. Down there I store a billion things and not a single thing was touched by this crud. Why would this stuff get into every nook and cranny on the main floor but nothing down there? The heating and venting system is the same down there as the main floor?


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## Bozlee (Nov 30, 2006)

wingnut said:
			
		

> Boy oh Boy this just keeps getting better all the time!  At this point you wish its your Osburn and not the mold thing.  But hay send us the pictures of the sledg a thon on the stove this weekend.  By the way type of insulation do have in the walls? Could this be giving off some sort of gas??  But inside your refrigerator too??  That is odd!



Hey..I thought you where coming to the sledge a thon  Well with all this help I'm getting from this forum I think maybe the stove might just have been granted a stay of excecution...for this weekend at least 

No gases coming from the insulation...it's that itchy fiberglass stuff


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## Bozlee (Nov 30, 2006)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> Not frustrated at all Bozlee. Like I said, I love a good puzzle. Here's another hypothesis: If it's the stove, then another guess would be stove paint. If the stove or stove pipe was repainted for some reason and "if" the paint was not high-temp, perhaps some interesting things could happen there. Just another guess. The lab results are really key here.



No paint issues..nothing ever been painted. Every thing as it came from the retailer.


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## begreen (Nov 30, 2006)

Though, that doesn't mean it wasn't re-painted by the retailer for some reason. Still guessing. That's why I advocated for the lab tests.


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## iceman (Nov 30, 2006)

Bozlee said:
			
		

> elkimmeg said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



wow!!   holy geez batman!  I am stumped ...  if you have taken such a long period off without using the stove.. what could it be?    I am not sure if you tried this but hey take it apart and clean/ wipe look at everything 
hang some think plastic (i know yoiu think this might be crazy)  about 5 ft away and seal off part of the room (without suffocating )  and light a small fire then wipe the plastic as this will tell if its coming from the stove   if its on the plastic facing the stove okay.. if its still on the windows then its not coming from the stove...   i know it sounds crazy but you shoukd seriously take a sample and send it off somewhere to get tested or start trying some crazy things  like posting this problem on the more on the net


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## Bozlee (Nov 30, 2006)

Holy Jeez Batman back at ya....WHAT A GREAT IDEA ! I don't think it's crazy at all! At this time my house is spotless with no signs of this grime anywhere. I have been scared to death to light the stove cause I could not face having to go through such a monumental cleaning task should this crud re-appear if we lit the stove. It's no big deal pushing the furniture out of the way and sealing off an area around the stove. This way we isolate the area not risking the mess through-out the rest of the house and take a zillion other variables out of the equation. I'll leave the windows on either side of the stove inside the sealed off area and see what happens. Nope, not only do I not think your idea is crazy...I think it's the best idea I've heard so far...yipeee.  If the inside of the sealed off area does get covered in this stuff...bata bing bata boom...we will know for sure if it is or is not the stove.

 K gotta run to the hardware store and get me some painter's tape and a big old role of poly.  If this works I owe you BIG TIME


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## iceman (Nov 30, 2006)

Bozlee said:
			
		

> Holy Jeez Batman back at ya....WHAT A GREAT IDEA ! I don't think it's crazy at all! At this time my house is spotless with no signs of this grime anywhere. I have been scared to death to light the stove cause I could not face having to go through such a monumental cleaning task should this crud re-appear if we lit the stove. It's no big deal pushing the furniture out of the way and sealing off an area around the stove. This way we isolate the area not risking the mess through-out the rest of the house and take a zillion other variables out of the equation. I'll leave the windows on either side of the stove inside the sealed off area and see what happens. Nope, not only do I not think your idea is crazy...I think it's the best idea I've heard so far...yipeee.  If the inside of the sealed off area does get covered in this stuff...bata bing bata boom...we will know for sure if it is or is not the stove.
> 
> K gotta run to the hardware store and get me some painter's tape and a big old role of poly.  If this works I owe you BIG TIME



whew! at first I thought you were picking on me...  just make sure that the plastic is far enough away that it doesn't melt     and  also double check the area for any residue you might have missed ....  take a plate or picture frame and place them in different locations so you will have something to compare when you wipe
and also check the areas on the other side for comparison... i would also suggest that when you check try to go out a door and the re-enter so you will not have to lift the plastic and possibly contaminate the other side with you walking back and forthbut before you start the burn walk around the plastic and see if there is any air getting through and mark it off so you will have a place to check as well
good luck!!


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## Bozlee (Nov 30, 2006)

iceman said:
			
		

> Bozlee said:
> 
> 
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5 5 2 2.......Gonna seal off half the living room around the stove from floor to ceiling. Gawd I hope nobody drops by for a visit...they'll think I'm daft


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## BrotherBart (Nov 30, 2006)

The eye of newt didn't work eh? Good luck with the "clean room" testing. I don't remember if that stove has an outside air kit connected or not and there are way to many posts to wade back through. If it does not be sure to leave some opening for that pup to breath in there. And for you to also.


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## iceman (Dec 1, 2006)

Bozlee said:
			
		

> iceman said:
> 
> 
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drum rollllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll


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## wg_bent (Dec 1, 2006)

Ya gotta post  a picture of that!


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## GVA (Dec 1, 2006)

Bozlee said:
			
		

> I do have one question. We purchased a chimney cleaning brush and used it after the 03-04 burning season. The brush is some sort of metal and do you think it is at all possible that using the brush caused some sort of damage inside the stove pipe.


I hate to go back here but!!     This coincides with your timeline of problems.  And also didn't you say you were gonna extend the pipe before the demo/ sledgeathon?
Make sure you keep the dogs on the other side of the plastic (just in case they are the smokers in the house and hiding it from ya) ;-)


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## Bozlee (Dec 1, 2006)

GVA said:
			
		

> Bozlee said:
> 
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Yeah still gonna extend the outside chimney by another three feet. Only one problem getting it installed before the BIG EXPERIMENT..it's -32 celcius out there...yikes!

Now you got me thinking..little Bozlee (he's the tiny brown dog) has been spending a lot of time hiding in the walk-in closet hmmm  "-) better keep a closer eye on him


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## Bozlee (Dec 1, 2006)

Warren said:
			
		

> Ya gotta post  a picture of that!


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## Bozlee (Dec 1, 2006)

Warren said:
			
		

> Ya gotta post  a picture of that!



Will do my best to accomodate that "-)


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## GVA (Dec 1, 2006)

[quote author="Bozlee" date="1164961138"]
Yeah still gonna extend the outside chimney by another three feet. Only one problem getting it installed before the BIG EXPERIMENT..it's -32 celcius out there...yikes!

Oh come on that's fall like weather in Canada... :cheese:


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## iceman (Dec 2, 2006)

Bozlee said:
			
		

> Warren said:
> 
> 
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any luck with project?


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## wg_bent (Dec 4, 2006)

Any news/update here?


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## iceman (Dec 4, 2006)

Warren said:
			
		

> Any news/update here?







i was wondering the same i hope he is okay


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## wg_bent (Dec 4, 2006)

I have a vision of him shrink wrapped in plastic to his stove...with black gunk all over his face.


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## Bozlee (Dec 5, 2006)

Warren said:
			
		

> I have a vision of him shrink wrapped in plastic to his stove...with black gunk all over his face.



Morning all...well happy to report I am not shrink wrapped nor am I covered in black gunk 

We did our little experiement and the end result is the stove will soon be 'History" :-(

We had a heck of a time  trying to keep the poly up. Since my ciellings and walls have all recently been painted I was not about to use anything but painters tape to hang it and with 13 foot hight cielings there was quite a bit of weight to hold up.  The living room area is 17 feet wide by 22 feet long. We sealed off half the room (moved all the furniture out of the sealed off area.)  The ceiling fan was inside the sealed off area. Before lighting the stove we made sure all the walls and windows in the sealed off area where really clean.  We also turned off the furnace and HRV to make sure there was no air circulation in the house but we ran the cieling fan. We lit the stove and let it burn for almost three hours. For the first hour and a half I sat inside the sealed off area to monitor for any smoke coming out of the stove or stove pipe. It was a very over cast day and I had a flashlight with me to shine around the stove to see if in the bright light I could see smoke that I could not see otherwise. Not at anytime did I see a hint of any smoke coming out of any part of the stove or stove pipe. My husband kept an eye on the smoke coming from the top of the chimney outside and and the draft going up the chimney appeared to be working fine.  

The end result after three hours of burning.......a slight brown film covering the window frames and sills and walls and ceilings inside the sealed off area!! When we took the poly down, underneath the painters tape it was clean but around the outside edges of the tape you could see the brown film.  The brown film was not as bad as the first time this happened but then we only burnt the stove for three hours. I'm sure the longer we would burn the stove the heavier this film would get.

This experiment has proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that the wood stove is the culprit. Why I have no idea but clearly there is something wrong with this stove. As I had mentioned sometime back, we also have a wood stove in our free standing sun house. It's a different brand and was installed by the same person who installed the osburn in the main house. The sun house stove has caused us no grief what so ever.

The only way left to try and figure out what could be wrong with this stove is to send it to the Manufacturer in Montreal and have them go over it with a fine tooth comb. But the shipping costs for that would be our expense and to ship a 500 pound stove halfway across the country and back makes no sense to us what so ever. Especially when there is no garauntee that they will find the problem.

You guys have been great and I and my husband certainly do appreciate all your efforts in helping us troubshoot our problem. As it stands right now we do not plan to light this stove again...at least not inside the house. Come spring we are going to have the stove removed from the house and re-installed into our garage. Wether we replace the stove in the house remains to be seen but I doubt very much that we will. We may look at putting in a zero clearance fireplace instead. 

Thanks again for all your help. You've all been great. Have a wonderful winter and a Very Merry Christmas to each and everyone of you.


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## Corie (Dec 5, 2006)

Is anyone else in the mood for a road trip to Canada to pick up an osburn?


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## BrotherBart (Dec 5, 2006)

Corie said:
			
		

> Is anyone else in the mood for a road trip to Canada to pick up an osburn?



I thought I had the deal done a week ago to just have a freight company pick it up for me.


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## wg_bent (Dec 5, 2006)

I wonder what the price will be.... 

I'll start.  10 bucks.  (always start low)


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## iceman (Dec 5, 2006)

Bozlee said:
			
		

> Warren said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...








Sorry to hear that!!   this thread has gotton so long i don't know if this was mentioned but now that we know its the stove check all the welds seams ets with flashlight and match if possible  if thats ok then get a new door and send the old one back for then to examine  that will save your frieght costs thats more than likely what it is is a warped door like you thought before....  good luck


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## Roospike (Dec 6, 2006)

now thats just odd , I wonder is the full seams were welded after the stove was tacked together?

*$10.25* Warren ..............  :cheese:  I know a welder that can fix it if so.


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## BrotherBart (Dec 6, 2006)

Get back. All of you. She never said a word about payment when she said I could have it picked up!


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## Roospike (Dec 6, 2006)

BrotherBart said:
			
		

> Get back. All of you. She never said a word about payment when she said I could have it picked up!



Yeah , unhu , Ok .......So shoud we put you down for *$10.50* ?


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## BrotherBart (Dec 6, 2006)

Roospike said:
			
		

> BrotherBart said:
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Hell no. I volunteered to have it picked up. She said yes. The heck with bidding. Anybody know a decent Canadian lawyer?

And a good cleaner for getting greasy brown crap off of a stove?


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## begreen (Dec 6, 2006)

What did the lab analysis of the brown stuff show?


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## Bozlee (Dec 6, 2006)

BrotherBart said:
			
		

> Roospike said:
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Heck guys...did I forget to mention my stove has "attitude"!  There is no greasy brown crap on the stove...it's shiny clean as the day I bought it. It wouldn't cover itself in greasy kunk...it just covers by entire house and everything in it ;-).


Anyway...everything in the stove is sealed tight...nothing coming apart. Only that darn door is not closing tightly and the retailer and the manufacturer tell me that I 'cannot" get a new door because they no longer manufacturer them for my particular stove. Some days you just can't win for loosing !

Roospike...I did indeed tell you you could pick up the stove en gratis ...but I spoke with my cohorts at US Customs and they tell me that this stove will never be granted immigration status into the U.S.  Something to do with Homeland Security and the importing of "dangerous goods" .  Like I said...some days your the windshield and somedays your the bug .


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## Bozlee (Dec 12, 2006)

Hello Everyone...I am going to be so late for work but I just have to take the time to tell you all what happened this morning.

For two years I have been trying to get the retailer that sold me the osburn to address our problems with the stove. They stopped carrying the osburn line shortly after they sold us the stove and have been avoiding me like the plaque

The owner called me this morning and they are sending a crew out to pick up the stove....( I live 170 miles away from their business) if they cannot figure out why this stove is causing such a mess in my house they are going to replace it with a new one....Yippeeee 

There really must be a Santa Caluse afterall 

Thanks again everyone for all of your help......and help you did.

Merry Christmas to all of you
Vera (aka Bozlee)


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## begreen (Dec 12, 2006)

Awesome Bozlee, you must be thrilled. Did you mention to your dealerthat the world is watching this story unfold? Do you have a choice of replacement stove? What is the dealer recommending?

PS: Did lab tests ever come back determining exactly what the substance is?


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## iceman (Dec 12, 2006)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> Awesome Bozlee, you must be thrilled. Did you mention to your dealerthat the world is watching this story unfold? Do you have a choice of replacement stove? What is the dealer recommending?
> 
> PS: Did lab tests ever come back determining exactly what the substance is?






yeah..... did i am dying to know what was it


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## MrGriz (Dec 12, 2006)

That's great news!  Keep us updated, and by all means let us know what the lab tests showed.


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## Bozlee (Dec 12, 2006)

The lab tests are not going to be back for at least 6 to 7 weeks. Things move slowly in canuck country 

The pick up crew is expected to arrive here betwen 4 and 5 p.m today.....does anyone know how I can attach a link to the dealer's web site? They no longer carry osburn. If you guys were able to see the other brands they carry...well your two cents is worth a million bucks to me!


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## MrGriz (Dec 12, 2006)

I'll give you $.02 for a million all day long  ;-P 

I think you just need to type the complete address in or cut and paste from your browser and it will show up as a link.  If that doesn't work, we'll still have the address.


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## iceman (Dec 12, 2006)

Bozlee said:
			
		

> The lab tests are not going to be back for at least 6 to 7 weeks. Things move slowly in canuck country
> 
> The pick up crew is expected to arrive here betwen 4 and 5 p.m today.....does anyone know how I can attach a link to the dealer's web site? They no longer carry osburn. If you guys were able to see the other brands they carry...well your two cents is worth a million bucks to me!




copy and paste


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## Bozlee (Dec 12, 2006)

iceman said:
			
		

> Bozlee said:
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Go to Alsips.com    Should take you to Alsips Industrial Producs.... bottom right of page you'll find thier wood stove line..thanks guys


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## Andre B. (Dec 12, 2006)

http://www.alsips.com/front_page.htm


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## GVA (Dec 12, 2006)

Bozlee said:
			
		

> iceman said:
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Quadra-fire?
Never heard of them....     just kidding....
MSG The floor is now yours....

Bozlee:
It would be funny if your dealer or someone high up at the new owners of Osburn were checking out things at the hearth .com


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## Corie (Dec 12, 2006)

Ok, so I haven't read any of this thread.  Eleven pages is too long.

Can I have the cliff notes, please?


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## Bozlee (Dec 13, 2006)

GVA said:
			
		

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That would be very funny indeed   Well it's gone ! Right now traveling down some lonesome highway on the back of someone's truck. All there is to do now is sat back and see what happens...tried posting some pics but it's not working. Wanted to share with ya'll my nemesis being hauled away  one tin soldier rides away


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## Bozlee (Dec 13, 2006)

Andre B. said:
			
		

> http://www.alsips.com/front_page.htm



Thanks for that link


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## MountainStoveGuy (Dec 13, 2006)

I have watched this thread for a few weeks now, and i tell you i dont have a clue, amazing i tell ya,
boz, you thinking about a quad?


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## begreen (Dec 13, 2006)

Looks like a Quad is the only good option there.


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## GVA (Dec 13, 2006)

In the link it looks like all they carry for wood are Quads.
You guy's can steer her right as to what she requires I'm sure.
BUT CAN WE START A NEW THREAD HERE PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAASSSSSSEEEE :cheese:


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## Bozlee (Dec 13, 2006)

MountainStoveGuy said:
			
		

> I have watched this thread for a few weeks now, and i tell you i dont have a clue, amazing i tell ya,
> boz, you thinking about a quad?



Don't really know what I am thinking about at this point. The stove is now back at the retailer and I'll just have to wait and see how that plays out. Who knows.. they might find the problem and be able to fix it and I get the same stove back or they can't find and fix the problem and I have to get a new one. If we have to go the new route you can be sure that I will not make a decision on what kind until I get advice from all you good folks here at this forum. So until I hear back from Alsips we'll just hang tight. And YES...when the word comes down I will post it on a new thread......but then again...maybe we can work towards a guiness world record for the longest thread ever  Naw not a good idea 

Thanks again ya'll...you have been amazing help to me !


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## begreen (Dec 13, 2006)

I can just hear the comments back at the dealer...

Oh yeah, I remember that puppy. Isn't that the rusted Osburn we repainted with that experimental, hi-temp, grease paint? So what's the problem, she looks great?


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## Bozlee (Dec 17, 2006)

Hello All...recieved an e mail from my dealerthis morning with an update on my stove. He says that I had the wrong door gasket on the stove. The original gasket came off and the manufacturer sent me a new 7/8 gasket which I installed. Not sure what the dealer means by this. Those of you with the osburn 2200 baywood...what size gasket do you have on your doors? The dealer also says that the "baffle on the top of the unit is out of place thereby choking down the flue passage".  Can any of you tell me how this baffle could have come out of place?  From the time the stove was installed it was not moved, climbed on etc. Your insight on this will be most helpfull because the dealler wants us to come to the shop and look at the stove and the repairs he's done before shipping it back out here. With your input I'll at least sound like I know what I'm talking about when I go there.

One other thing.....when the fellow came to pick up the stove from our place....he tipped it over and laid it on it's back to move it onto his dolly. Could this have moved the baffle? This question is important, because if that is what could have moved the baffle then that would not be cause for our dirt problem in the house. From the time we originally picked up the stove and had it installed it was never in anything but the upright position.

I do not want this stove brought back here unless I can be as sure as possible that whatever the problem was has been corrected.

Thanks everyone


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## BrotherBart (Dec 17, 2006)

My answer on laying the stove down is "Darn right that could/would move the baffle".

As to the gasket, the one Osburn currently sells for the 2200 is 7/8"

http://www.osburn-mfg.com/accessories.aspx?CategoId=18

EDIT: I just looked at the manual for that stove. It has two ceramic fiber boards in the baffle with firebrick under them. I don't see how they could have laid that stove over without destroying those ceramic fiber boards when the bricks started banging around up there!


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## Bozlee (Dec 17, 2006)

BrotherBart said:
			
		

> My answer on laying the stove down is "Darn right that could/would move the baffle".
> 
> As to the gasket, the one Osburn currently sells for the 2200 is 7/8"
> 
> ...



Oh boy BrotherBart...I just knew this was the answer I was going to get back ! I had a bad feeling when this guy haulked the stove over to the edge of the heart and then laid it down on it's back side (door facing up). The stove also took quite a jostle when he dragged it up the ramp to his van and then had to jump bump it into place. My huge worry is that the dealer will assume the moved baffle was the cause of our problem when in fact that could have happened during the move and something altogether different is the real cause of our dirt issue. 

Thanks for your answer...now I am going to send it "word for word" to my dealer if you don't mind. And the beat goes on !


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## iceman (Dec 17, 2006)

Bozlee said:
			
		

> BrotherBart said:
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he should have the stove somewhere in the back of the shop  try the plastic thing again at his shop  but the gasket thing does sound like a possibilty  especially if the one you had wasn't the right one thats the only place something should get out of the stove?????
but tell him to bring your new stove already this is going on to long you have a house to heat   so "BRING MY NEW STOVE NOW!"  and tell him your"network"
is behind you .... we can all take pictures and send it to you so he can see how many of us there are


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## GVA (Dec 17, 2006)

I still think we should do the online autopsy :cheese:


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## Bozlee (Dec 18, 2006)

GVA said:
			
		

> I still think we should do the online autopsy :cheese:



I'm feelin kinda bad that I'm cheatin you outa the autopsy...

BrotherBart...... how many photos do you think it will take to get a me new stove  New stove sound very fine to me


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## GVA (Dec 18, 2006)

Bozlee said:
			
		

> GVA said:
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How do you know that BrotherBart's not the one who picked up the stove from your place ;-P HA HA HA let the autopsy begin........


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## BrotherBart (Dec 18, 2006)

Bozlee said:
			
		

> GVA said:
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Just one. Of the store owner in a, ah, compromising situation.


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## Bozlee (Jan 12, 2007)

Happy New Year All

Well the stove is back in my house as of yesterday, not sure how I'm feeling about that. What did they do to it? Good Question?

They test burnt in their show room for almost two weeks and claimed it was burning fine with no smoke emissions coming out of it anywhere. But then I never saw any smoke emissions at anytime either so not sure what that determined?

They put a new gasket on it which they claim is a 7/8 inch but I think it's more like a two inch! This thing is so fat it almost oozes out of the door. But there is a tight seal door to stove now that's for sure! They cleaned and re adjusted the baffles which they claim where all carboned up. And they extended the chimney on the roof by another three feet. We test burnt it for about three hours after it was re-installed and no nasties appeared on walls or windows. The installer they sent was very good and seemed to really know his stuff. He said that even before he added the three foot chimney extension we had a good draft going on. He said our fresh air intake was fine and could see no issues anywhere.

Tonight will be the big test! Going down to -41 Celsius and we'll be loading her up and setting her alight. Will get the de-greaser out in the morning and if I see so much as one smudge of greasy soot anywhere...well you'll feel the earth shake down below the border 

Will report back tomorrow


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## iceman (Jan 12, 2007)

Bozlee said:
			
		

> Happy New Year All
> 
> Well the stove is back in my house as of yesterday, not sure how I'm feeling about that. What did they do to it? Good Question?
> 
> ...









can't wait this 2 month long post has my anxiety level up high


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## wg_bent (Jan 12, 2007)

You will have deprived Corie of  the autopsy

let us know.


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## MrGriz (Jan 12, 2007)

Good luck, hopefully this will take care of the problem.  Keep us posted.


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## GVA (Mar 27, 2007)

Bozlee how's it working????
Lab results?

Wow this is old..... hh:


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## begreen (Mar 27, 2007)

There are threads like this where I also wonder how they are currently doing. Bitterbee seems to have wandered off as well. It would be great to be able to do a "stump the chumps" ala hearth.com and revisit some of these golden moments to see how they turned out and whether we were right or blowing smoke.


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## GVA (Mar 27, 2007)

This was the classic quote.. :lol: 




			
				BeGreen said:
			
		

> I can just hear the comments back at the dealer...
> 
> Oh yeah, I remember that puppy. Isn't that the rusted Osburn we repainted with that experimental, hi-temp, grease paint? So what's the problem, she looks great?


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## stoveguy2esw (Mar 28, 2007)

you know, i remember a call i had several years ago abouta stove (pellet) that all of a sudden started smelling up the house and leavinga greasy film in the room everywhere. we worked over the phone for several days before finding out the folk's little granddaughter found a neat place to store her crayons. you guessed it , slid them right into the heat exchanger tubes above the door. apparantly there were like 64 crayons in the box, the fellow called me up and explained that the little girl showed them where she put the crayons, apparantly the unit was not running when she did it. but they all ended up in the stove melted crayons dripped backwards into the back of the tubes


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