# Ashford 30 -2 months old door hinge smoke smell



## aaronk25 (Feb 15, 2017)

So I bought this stove as it appeared to be the best stove to buy and love most things about it except that when trying to use the low burn features the room smelled like smoke.  I've read every thread on here I could find about others that had these issues and take even a few more steps trying to correct the problem.

The smoke smell only comes when running under level 2 on the thermostat.  Called and talked to BK Corp, and was told that engineering always points back to a draft issue so I Bought myself a manometer and checked draft and on low I'm getting .05 which is where it should be on high and that was at 30f.  On high im getting .10 which is to much draft so the good thing is I think we can rule out a chimney draft as a issue.  I've taken apart the entire door assembly glass and and even applied high temp silicone behind the glass retainer gasket thinking that smoke is getting behind it and that didn't solve it either.   I've even adjusted the latch assembly so tight that the door barley latches and it would most likely pass the dollar pull test by a factor or 2.   The rope seal is heavily indented and seating perfectly.

Like the others I've read about if the stove is turned up to 2 or higher the smoke smell goes away.  The smoke smell is the worst at 1-1.5 but gets even more pronounced if the fans a ran at high with the thermostat at 1.0.  Not sure if that is because it is carrying the smoke away or creating a low pressure area around the door assembly making the problem worst by sucking the smell/smoke out.  It is I think a smoking gun that when ran on low, even with wood only in back of the stove that the glass gets dirty only on far sides of the glass, indicating that there is a air pattern carrying smoke to the edge of the  door right up to the rope seal on both the latch and hinge side but it only stinks on the hinge side.

Moisture content is .12 burning oak.   

Has anyone figured this out yet?  

Thanks you. 

It 
	

		
			
		

		
	





Any ideas on where to go from here?


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## webby3650 (Feb 15, 2017)

The dirty glass pattern is normal for a low burn. Also oak at 12% MC is very very low.. very hard to accomplish without a kiln.
That was a fresh split piece at room temperature?
How tall is your chimney? What's the setup like?


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## aaronk25 (Feb 15, 2017)

In the garage stacked dry for a couple years.   Grabbed the driest stuff I had to see if it made a difference most of the wood is upper teens m.c.  

The wood was at about 50 as its was in the garage which was heated.   

Brand new chimney.   Double wall black pipe up 4' then 2-45 degree angles together to make a small off set and then 2-30 degrees to make another off set then 21' straight up rising 5' above the house with a Deluxe super vent cap to improve draft.  
I was thinking the bends might be the problem but given even at 1 the lowest setting the draft is at the highest end allowable buy BK for the stove.   At 3 the draft exceeds where it should be.  

I have no problem with the glass sooting up as it burns off when run on high for 20 min but the interesting thing was the soot extends all the way over to the hinge side of the glass which is where the stink comes from.


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## aaronk25 (Feb 15, 2017)

Couple pics of the set up from inside.  Class A super vent chimney.  The bends might actually help my over draft condition given that the overdraft measurement was taken at 30f.   At -20f I better get the damper in.


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## begreen (Feb 15, 2017)

This has been noted by others. The cause is not clear. One speculation is that the door gasket may be getting saturated with creosote and smelling.


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## Niko (Feb 15, 2017)

I used to get that smell once in a while on my king.   I never really run the stove on a high temp so i get more build up in the box.  So at night once every 4 days maybe less maybe more id let the stove burn on high for a good 40-60 min or more to burn all the creo out of it.  Once you do that your smell should go away.

maybe you have some nice creo build up in your stove pipe?


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## aaronk25 (Feb 15, 2017)

This has been happening since I first tried lower burn settings which was about the 3rd day I got the stove and the chimney was installed new with the stove.  The gasket doesn't appear saturated and if backed down from high to low setting within 15 min it stinks.   Given dropping 6k for the complete investment of the new chimney and stove and doin things the right way I'm gonna be sick if I can't get this performing right, it's such a good stove.  

As another data point it only smells when the  air flap closes down.  If the fire is running out of wood to burn but the flap is open because the thermostat isn't satisfied it doesn't stink at all.  I think it's got somthing to do with CFM moving though the stove.  The higher air velocity must keep the smoke off the glass where the lower allows it saturate the glass edge/rope with smoke.

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## begreen (Feb 15, 2017)

Are there nuts for the glass gasket retainer under the door gasket?


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## aaronk25 (Feb 15, 2017)

begreen said:


> Are there nuts for the glass gasket retainer under the door gasket?



Yes there were which were all tight before disassembling them, removing and the putting high temp silicone behind the retainer, reinstalling the nuts coating the nuts and threads in sealant to ensure that the smoke couldn't travel though the clearance hole for the stud.  Gonna be a pain to dig them out of the sealant but want to stop any path for smoke.   


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## begreen (Feb 15, 2017)

I am wondering if those nuts affect the sealing of the door gasket. Not sure, but it is a less common design.


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## aaronk25 (Feb 15, 2017)

begreen said:


> I am wondering if those nuts affect the sealing of the door gasket. Not sure, but it is a less common design.




Ya not sure placed continuous silicone in the  retainer to bond the back of the seal and to the nuts to ensue the back was sealed and to pre-load the rope seal out just a bit so it would provide a tighter seal on the hinge side of the door since that side is not adjustable, only the latch side.   

Thanks by the way for the thoughts and helping.  I want so bad to but I'm not going to but installing a deflector that is welded to the air wash angle that would be a part of the stove not the door to direct airflow over the glass and rope area by the hinge.  I think that's the difference between low and high is that on high there is enough airflow where the laminar flow of air stays on the entire door and hits the brick/silk area where on low the air stay on 1/2 the door and smoke comes into direct contact with the rope seal and leaches through.  


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## aaronk25 (Feb 15, 2017)

One thing I'm seeing now is the white build up near where the rope seam is located at and wondering if that where the smoke is getting by?  Maybe I order a spare rope and relocate the splice/seam to the middle on the bottom and see if it makes a difference.  The indentation is so deep in the rope it's hard to believe it would be leaking there.


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## webby3650 (Feb 15, 2017)

aaronk25 said:


> Ya not sure placed continuous silicone in the  retainer to bond the back of the seal and to the nuts to ensue the back was sealed and to pre-load the rope seal out just a bit so it would provide a tighter seal on the hinge side of the door since that side is not adjustable, only the latch side.
> 
> Thanks by the way for the thoughts and helping.  I want so bad to but I'm not going to but installing a deflector that is welded to the air wash angle that would be a part of the stove not the door to direct airflow over the glass and rope area by the hinge.  I think that's the difference between low and high is that on high there is enough airflow where the laminar flow of air stays on the entire door and hits the brick/silk area where on low the air stay on 1/2 the door and smoke comes into direct contact with the rope seal and leaches through.
> 
> ...


Don't go modifying the stove. It's early..

I'm pretty sure the stud length was a concern on some earlier models. Maybe trimming down the stud length would allow the gasket to compress fully?
I had one the first Ashfords in use, I didn't have this issue, some did. No elbows certainly helped with my draft.


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## aaronk25 (Feb 15, 2017)

Thanks for the reply. When the nuts are fully torqued the stud is flush with the face of the nut.  They did a good job with that revision.  

There might be someone on the forum who is a expert in draft I just don't know how I couldn't have enough draft given I'm at the top end of draft limits.   

Thinking out loud there are 2 factors in chimney performance.  1st pressure drop measured with the manometer measuring the pressure difference between the room and the inside of the chimney and velocity which only could be measured with a cfm devise or pitot tube like on a aircraft.  When the door is shut with .05 of water column pressure drop the chimney is sucking hard against the stove (air flapper) pulling like a John Deere and even if the chimney did a cork screw if it's got .05 of pull against the stove it's doing its job.  The amount of time to get to ultimate velocity would be affected by bends which would show up in the amount of time it would require to wait to open the door after cracking it in order to not have smoke spillage as more bends would take the flue longer to get velocity up.  I don't know got off on a tangent I guess just want to get it fixed.   


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## Blazing (Feb 16, 2017)

aaronk25 said:


> Thanks for the reply. When the nuts are fully torqued the stud is flush with the face of the nut.  They did a good job with that revision.
> 
> There might be someone on the forum who is a expert in draft I just don't know how I couldn't have enough draft given I'm at the top end of draft limits.
> 
> ...



I just have to give props to a person who is off the chart smart and tried to fix the problem. Maybe @BKVP  can chime in on this.


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## pdxdave (Feb 16, 2017)

I think it's safe to say at this point there is ample evidence that this particular stove simply has an issue.


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## Woody Stover (Feb 16, 2017)

webby3650 said:


> I'm pretty sure the stud length was a concern on some earlier models.





aaronk25 said:


> the stud is flush with the face of the nut.  They did a good job with that revision.


The title says "Ashford 30," but "2 months old" leads me to believe this is a 30.1, correct?


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## moresnow (Feb 16, 2017)

Must be somewhat normal to get the stink as mine will as well when turned waaay down. I've kinda been wondering if it isn't smoke/creo stink escaping the cat probe hole up top. Fans blow it towards the front and whala. Everybody thinks it's the door gasket. I went to look at a used unit once and that owner complained how the stove stunk the place up in the off season? I looked inside and . That stove was fully loaded with wet appearing drippy creo! No wonder they had trouble. Possibly a bit more hot burn time and not turning the stat soooo far down will cure the issue? Actually I have figured out that my setup is only capable of running so low without stink. I like the cat probe to read 1/3,1/2 up the scale early in the burn. Anything less on the cat probe early on and its burning to slow. And stinks. Thinking about pulling the cat probe and covering the hole for a load as a experiment. Not that I am suffering from a irritating stink often. FWIW.


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## blueguy (Feb 16, 2017)

Things I would check:

The weld on the knife edge around the door on the hinge side - was it ground smooth or is there a prominent ridge where it was welded?

Where is the door gasket joint? If it's in the middle of the hinge side of the door, move it down to the lower left corner per the manual.

Take the stove adapter off the connector pipe and try using just a 6" length slid right down over the collar.

I had the smoke smell issue as well, and correcting all of what I've put here corrected it. I also have high draft, so it's not a draft issue per se. 



moresnow said:


> Must be somewhat normal to get the stink as mine will as well when turned waaay down. I've kinda been wondering if it isn't smoke/creo stink escaping the cat probe hole up top. Fans blow it towards the front and whala. Everybody thinks it's the door gasket. I went to look at a used unit once and that owner complained how the stove stunk the place up in the off season? I looked inside and . That stove was fully loaded with wet appearing drippy creo! No wonder they had trouble. Possibly a bit more hot burn time and not turning the stat soooo far down will cure the issue? Actually I have figured out that my setup is only capable of running so low without stink. I like the cat probe to read 1/3,1/2 up the scale early in the burn. Anything less on the cat probe early on and its burning to slow. And stinks. Thinking about pulling the cat probe and covering the hole for a load as a experiment. Not that I am suffering from a irritating stink often. FWIW.



It's not coming from the probe hole. I thought this at first as well. As far as the creo in the box, the stink in the off season is most likely from reversed draft - covering the air intake solves the issue. Dripping creo in the box affects nothing.


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## webby3650 (Feb 16, 2017)

pdxdave said:


> I think it's safe to say at this point there is ample evidence that this particular stove simply has an issue.


Keep in mind that hearth.com only represents a very small fraction of the wood burning community. Out of tens of thousands of units a few have made their way to this site looking for an answer. They don't all have issues.


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## webby3650 (Feb 16, 2017)

Woody Stover said:


> The title says "Ashford 30," but "2 months old" leads me to believe this is a 30.1, correct?


I assumed that as well, just starting with the basics.


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## Deeje (Feb 16, 2017)

I also have a 2 month old Ashford 30.1 with the same exact problem. Any time I turn the stove low, I get a very sweet smoky smell coming from the left (hinge) side. Looked all over and haven't found a solution. Draft and gasket are good. Door seal is tight. I'd like to see BK chime in on this issue because the number of occurrences I see among the small proportion of Ashford owners who post on this forum tells me this is a widespread issue.


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## aaronk25 (Feb 16, 2017)

blueguy said:


> Things I would check:
> 
> The weld on the knife edge around the door on the hinge side - was it ground smooth or is there a prominent ridge where it was welded?
> 
> ...



Thanks for the help!  I'll check on the knife  condition tonight when the fire is low.

The stove pipe adapter is difficult because I can't get the double wall inside pipe to fit to the stove as the collar on the stove is to thick.  I remember the inside pipe of the double wall landed directly in the center of the 1/4" thick stove collar.  Is there another pipe I could by that would mate with the SuperVent double wall pipe?  With the excessive draft and couple inches of overlap between the stove collar and adapter what is the thought process about how the smoke could get out?   


I'll move the door gasket as described too, thanks.


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## black smoke signals (Feb 16, 2017)

I'm sure professionals chimney sweeps have electronic detectors for checking co levels by sniffing the stove and pipe to ceiling. Finding the root cause for smoke leaks has been a concern of mine too. I'm sure stove manufacturers have to pressure check there stoves you would think.


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## black smoke signals (Feb 16, 2017)

Smoke matches from local heating might help you find a leak on a cold stove.


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## Squisher (Feb 16, 2017)

I don't think it's common for a sweep to have a handheld co detector. They are expensive and need constant calibration was the impression I was under?  To expensive to upkeep and have at the ready for the one in a million chance someone is going to pay you to come and monitor their stove while it's running.  I'd check with the local fire hall if you are wanting to access something like that.


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## Niko (Feb 16, 2017)

Also check the outside of your chimney screen.  Running low sometimes can clog up the screen from the steam which eill turn into ice and create a clog. 

I had this like 2 weeks ago and was noticing my kind was back puffing smoke a lot more on relaods.  So i went outside and so some nice icecylce forming off of the screen almost 2-3 ft in length.  Let it burn on hot and the back puffing went awat. 

At what temp do you close your bypass when reading your pipe probe?


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## aaronk25 (Feb 16, 2017)

Niko said:


> Also check the outside of your chimney screen.  Running low sometimes can clog up the screen from the steam which eill turn into ice and create a clog.
> 
> I had this like 2 weeks ago and was noticing my kind was back puffing smoke a lot more on relaods.  So i went outside and so some nice icecylce forming off of the screen almost 2-3 ft in length.  Let it burn on hot and the back puffing went awat.
> 
> At what temp do you close your bypass when reading your pipe probe?



Thanks.  I close bypass as soon as the cat thermometer is active or nearing active since the thermometer is a couple mins behind.   

Also no screen on the top of chimney a more open style chimney cap.  But when other really cold I'll watch for what your talking about.  Been in the 30s.


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## Niko (Feb 16, 2017)

I see sometimes my pipe probe reading 400+ but my wood is still not fully chard. So when i close my bypass my cat meter still wont show in the active zone.  Within 2-5 minutes tho my cat will be glowing red and my cat meter still won't show active yet.  Ill let the stove get nice and hot (i use a magnetic meter on my stove top) once i see the stove top get to 400-500 i start to close the t stat lil by lil.  I used to close it on one shot before and now im trying the lil by lil method.  I think the reduced incriments may be a lil bit better for me as i have been seeing better cat activity and less smell.  

My moisture meter reads in the 15-17 range on my wood now.  But i dont measure every piece so im sure i might get some higher number pieices in their

I would def let the stove run nice and hot and burn up whatever crude you got built up.  

Have you done this yet?


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## Blazing (Feb 16, 2017)

I only seem to get the smoke smell when I turn down to fast ymmv.


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## Niko (Feb 16, 2017)

Blazing said:


> I only seem to get the smoke smell when I turn down to fast ymmv.




Have you turned you stove on high, burn out all the creo built up in it?

what is ymmv?


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## Blazing (Feb 16, 2017)

Niko said:


> Have you turned you stove on high, burn out all the creo built up in it?
> 
> what is ymmv?



Oh yeah as long as I don't turn it down fast I get zero smell. "Ymmv"-your mileage may vary


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## webby3650 (Feb 16, 2017)

Blazing said:


> I only seem to get the smoke smell when I turn down to fast ymmv.


I've experienced this smell at times. Usually only When I reduce from high to low all at once. It certainly doesn't bother me, I just know that I can't reduce it all at once, and depending on weather conditions I may not be able to run on low. Every setup won't be the same, sometimes low will stall the cat and often a smoke smell is reported when this happens. 

In This instance I wouldn't think that's the case, with such aggressive draft.


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## blueguy (Feb 16, 2017)

If one were to watch the smoke in the firebox (without a lot of flame), you can kind of see how the air travels around the box. The air wash comes out right about where the factory installs the joint in the door gasket. I'm still of the opinion that this is what is causing the smoke smell - the air wash is pushing the smoke directly into the joint and some of the smell (not CO or actual smoke particles) is pushing through when the stat is turned down.


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## Blazing (Feb 16, 2017)

webby3650 said:


> I've experienced this smell at times. Usually only When I reduce from high to low all at once. It certainly doesn't bother me, I just know that I can't reduce it all at once, and depending on weather conditions I may not be able to run on low. Every setup won't be the same, sometimes low will stall the cat and often a smoke smell is reported when this happens.
> 
> In This instance I wouldn't think that's the case, with such aggressive draft.



Spot on sir.


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## bholler (Feb 16, 2017)

blueguy said:


> the air wash is pushing the smoke directly into the joint and some of the smell (not CO or actual smoke particles) is pushing through


If you smell smoke smoke is getting out of the stove.  I seriously doubt that the airwash has anything to do with it.  It is just in the nature of a cat stove because when running on low the box get full of smoke and with it turned down there is not allot of air moving through the box which allows smoke to work its way out occasionally.   Obviously this can be avoided for the most part once you get the hang of it though.


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## blueguy (Feb 16, 2017)

bholler said:


> If you smell smoke smoke is getting out of the stove.  I seriously doubt that the airwash has anything to do with it.  It is just in the nature of a cat stove because when running on low the box get full of smoke and with it turned down there is not allot of air moving through the box which allows smoke to work its way out occasionally.   Obviously this can be avoided for the most part once you get the hang of it though.



I have plenty of experience with my BK. Ever been around a campfire and smelled your clothes after the fact? They smell like smoke, but yet there is no smoke currently around. It's kind of the same.

I know you have tons of experience with stoves and sweeping, but unless you have actually personally watched / experienced this in a 30 series BK, you're just adding to an already frustrating experience for these owners. I've had the smoke smell, and believe me, there is ZERO smoke making it's way out, but once I made the changes I mentioned above, the smell went away, even with the stat all the way down.

And with that, I'm out.


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## Highbeam (Feb 16, 2017)

Is that gasket a BK gasket? It looks very white.


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## aaronk25 (Feb 16, 2017)

Highbeam said:


> Is that gasket a BK gasket? It looks very white.





Yes,  it is stove is new with maybe 40 days run time on it, but 1 day before taking that pic I uninstalled caulked and reinstalled the rope and as soon as pulled out it looses the memory of the indent so it's possible it got rolled to a cleaner side when re-installed.


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## Highbeam (Feb 16, 2017)

aaronk25 said:


> Yes,  it is stove is new with maybe 40 days run time on it, but 1 day before taking that pic I uninstalled caulked and reinstalled the rope and as soon as pulled out it looses the memory of the indent so it's possible it got rolled to a cleaner side when re-installed.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



So you reinstalled the old gasket on a big pile of silicone. A knife edge gasket has a very specific imprint from the stove. I didn't think you could reuse them.


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## bholler (Feb 16, 2017)

blueguy said:


> Ever been around a campfire and smelled your clothes after the fact? They smell like smoke, but yet there is no smoke currently around. It's kind of the same.


What do you think you are smelling though?  Those "smoke particles" are still there on your clothes  Basically you have a tiny bit of creosote on your clothes.  If you are smelling smoke in the house it is because a little smoke is leaking out it doesn't matter what stove it is there is nothing different about blaze kings in this respect at all.  The op has already been told how to avoid the problem they are new to the stove and just have to figure it out.  We all have that with a new stove not a big deal.


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## bholler (Feb 16, 2017)

black smoke signals said:


> I'm sure professionals chimney sweeps have electronic detectors for checking co levels by sniffing the stove and pipe to ceiling. Finding the root cause for smoke leaks has been a concern of mine too. I'm sure stove manufacturers have to pressure check there stoves you would think.


Yes I always carry a co detector but it will not help locate the source of smoke at all.


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## bholler (Feb 16, 2017)

Squisher said:


> I don't think it's common for a sweep to have a handheld co detector. They are expensive and need constant calibration was the impression I was under? To expensive to upkeep and have at the ready for the one in a million chance someone is going to pay you to come and monitor their stove while it's running. I'd check with the local fire hall if you are wanting to access something like that.


It should be common 3 times now I have walked into a house and the monitor on my belt started going off right away.   It will not at all be useful for locating a leak like this but it can pick up a problem usually with a furnace or water heater.  And yes they are expensive to buy and maintain.


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## aaronk25 (Feb 16, 2017)

Highbeam said:


> So you reinstalled the old gasket on a big pile of silicone. A knife edge gasket has a very specific imprint from the stove. I didn't think you could reuse them.




I'm not sure if this is a knife edge gasket or not as I'm not a stove expert just have a desire to always figure out how everything works.  There was a about a 3/16 deep very defined imprint from the door into the rope gasket.  As soon as any tension was applied to the gasket pulling it out the imprint was gone.  As you may know with a rope gasket it is not installed pulled tight but rather a bit bunched up so it will compress nicely to form a good seal.  

I don't want to read into what your saying to much but i didn't apply a pile of silicone behind the rope just a even spread to seal the the rope and threads and clearance holes for gasket retainer.


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## Squisher (Feb 16, 2017)

bholler said:


> It should be common 3 times now I have walked into a house and the monitor on my belt started going off right away.   It will not at all be useful for locating a leak like this but it can pick up a problem usually with a furnace or water heater.  And yes they are expensive to buy and maintain.



I'm just going on memory but aren't the sniffers that you'd use to find a leak quite a bit more expensive and tougher to keep calibrated I think than the personal alarms?

This bit of discussion is a good wake up call for me to get a personal alarm going. I had inadvertently filed that under 'later'.


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## bholler (Feb 16, 2017)

Squisher said:


> I'm just going on memory but aren't the sniffers that you'd use to find a leak quite a bit more expensive and tougher to keep calibrated I think than the personal alarms?


I dont know how much those cost I never saw a need for one so I didnt check

But even the personal monitors are pretty pricey and they need calibrated regularly as well.


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## drstorm (Feb 16, 2017)

If my wood is to close to the glass/door I get the smoke smell in my Chinook 30.Sometimes the wood has rolled and landed on the glass=smoke smell.
I try and make sure to keep everything pushed in enough so that the chances of ending up too close to the door are minimal.


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## aaronk25 (Feb 16, 2017)

Ok so was having a good Bacardi and diet looking at the stove tonight which previously had a clean door, I sit and stare at the creosote/carbon pattern on the door form running 12 hours on setting 2 (medium) thinking gosh the hinge side of the glass (left side) sure has a lot more creosote and carbon build up than the right side (latch side) and thinking about how the two main air tubes bring air in from the back of the stove and with all being equal maybe since the thermostat flapper is a unequal flapper meaning that it changes the direction of the airflow on the outlet side under the most restrictive setting low (closed) and consequently starving one side of airflow  allowing more airflow to the other side.  So I stole one of the wife's steel pot and pan cleaning pads and stuffed it up on top of the air door wash angle and in front of the right side tube to damper the air coming out in hopes that it would increase airflow out of the left side tube and reduce the hinge side creosote and smoke smell.  At least if the right side starting smelling we know what to fix.   We will see as of now on high (3) judging by the short rapid moving flames on the left and long slow flames on the right it's working exactly as planned.  



Oh ya and all day on #2 setting and zero, none Nadda no smell, so here we go....

Ok turning down to 1 let's see if it stinks in a coupe hours.   Come hell or high water we're gonna find a solution to this stove problem!


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## aaronk25 (Feb 16, 2017)

Oh ya and the wood being burned currently, which is about 50% of the wood burned is dimensional pine which is not salt water pine.  The thermostat does a great job bringing a fast burning wood back to regulated burn rates.  Ive burned oak and pine both smell on low.  I own a construction company that build a lot of wood apartment buildings and in our panel plant when the right job comes along I am able to load up on a unlimited supply of 18" 2x6"and 2x10" and stack the firebox so it is about 90% wood.  Burns 14 hours on #2 setting.


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## webby3650 (Feb 16, 2017)

aaronk25 said:


> Oh ya and the wood being burned currently, which is about 50% of the wood burned is dimensional pine which is not salt water pine.  The thermostat does a great job bringing a fast burning wood back to regulated burn rates.  Ive burned oak and pine both smell on low.  I own a construction company that build a lot of wood apartment buildings and in our panel plant when the right job comes along I am able to load up on a unlimited supply of 18" 2x6"and 2x10" and stack the firebox so it is about 90% wood.  Burns 14 hours on #2 setting.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Perhaps the issue here then is that you are loading the stove completely full of boards, rather than cordwood like it's designed to burn. The wood could be offgassing at a rate so fast that the cat can't keep up?


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## aaronk25 (Feb 16, 2017)

That would make sense if it only did it on boards but it does it on straight oak too even after 5 loads straight.  It does it on every type of wood regardless if it's loaded to the door or not.  I have even loaded it 1/2 full with the oak at just the rear of the stove and it still stinks.   

On a different not I think the main issue with burning board ends of pine as long as they didn't come from a salt water mill (corrosion) is first on re-loads they catch fire so fast that with a strong draft and the bypass open  flames will get sucked way up into the chimney potentially over heating the chimney or if it's all creosoted up catch it on fire.   2nd pine in general has more sap so chimney cleaning is more frequent.   


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## kennyp2339 (Feb 17, 2017)

Hmmm think of this, and it takes an open mind (plus I'm having a hard time putting this into words atm)... small failures in install. Max draft on these units running on high setting is .05, you say in your 1st post that you measured on low .05. So while the fire is smoldering on low the heat produced in the fire box is constantly getting sucked out of the fire box fooling the t-stat to opening up and allow more air to enter. This additional air is right at the balance of a smoldering fire and one that becomes oxygen rich and goes into flames. (not quite flames but to much smoke, just perhaps a hair below ignition point of smoke) this is probably over whelming the cat and the smoke is just sitting in the fire box super heated, but no where to got. I would think running the unit where flames are in the firebox (small flames) is best for you rather than a smoldering load, that should eliminate your smoke smell until you can figure out how to meet the specific draft guidelines from BK.


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## webby3650 (Feb 17, 2017)

aaronk25 said:


> That would make sense if it only did it on boards but it does it on straight oak too even after 5 loads straight.  It does it on every type of wood regardless if it's loaded to the door or not.  I have even loaded it 1/2 full with the oak at just the rear of the stove and it still stinks.
> 
> On a different not I think the main issue with burning board ends of pine as long as they didn't come from a salt water mill (corrosion) is first on re-loads they catch fire so fast that with a strong draft and the bypass open  flames will get sucked way up into the chimney potentially over heating the chimney or if it's all creosoted up catch it on fire.   2nd pine in general has more sap so chimney cleaning is more frequent.
> 
> ...


The problem with burning milled lumber is that it can cause an overfire situation very quickly and damage the stove. A BK can handle it just fine if it's stacked tightly I'd say. The sap in it won't have any affect on the flue, if the pine is seasoned, or in the case kiln dried its no different than other species.


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## ohiojoe13 (Feb 17, 2017)

I have only burned cord wood in my Ashford and I have the left side smoke smell. This is my second year burning with it. Last year the smoke smell drove me nuts. This year I have dealt with it. I was told it was a draft problem  and had a few phone calls with BKVP. I have a 3 foot section of class a I still need to add to my chimney to help with draft. I'm just not convinced it's a draft problem.


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## aaronk25 (Feb 17, 2017)

kennyp2339 said:


> Hmmm think of this, and it takes an open mind (plus I'm having a hard time putting this into words atm)... small failures in install. Max draft on these units running on high setting is .05, you say in your 1st post that you measured on low .05. So while the fire is smoldering on low the heat produced in the fire box is constantly getting sucked out of the fire box fooling the t-stat to opening up and allow more air to enter. This additional air is right at the balance of a smoldering fire and one that becomes oxygen rich and goes into flames. (not quite flames but to much smoke, just perhaps a hair below ignition point of smoke) this is probably over whelming the cat and the smoke is just sitting in the fire box super heated, but no where to got. I would think running the unit where flames are in the firebox (small flames) is best for you rather than a smoldering load, that should eliminate your smoke smell until you can figure out how to meet the specific draft guidelines from BK.



Thanks for thoughts.   So there are many other BK 30 models that are doing the same thing as mine.   Most people that have the problem discuss chimney set up ect but I think I'm one of the few who actually hooked up a manometer and measured draft.  BK blames the problem of smoke smell with low draft in these stoves, I am on the opposite end of the spectrum.  Now whether I keep this stove or BK takes it back I am still going to put a barametric damper on it to reduce the draft to see if it helps as the next stove installed will require about the same draft numbers BK requires.  

The reason I don't think overdraft per se is the root cause of the problem or "overwhelming" the cat as a secondary issue is because with excessive draft also know as pressure drop would create a lower the room atmospheric pressure resulting in room air going though the rope seal not pushing smoke out though it.  Also I'm not sure what "overwhelming" the cat means.   The cat is slightly restrictive but if two much CFM is pulled though the cat due to excessive draft the cat would either not consume all the cat food because the duration of time the food is inside the cat would be to short not allowing ample time for complete combustion or the cat would still combust most of the cat food but because it is combusting more food in a given time it could potentially get to hot.  

There also is not a positive pressure inside the stove it's always less than room pressure.  With the draft I had I can actually leave the cat engaged bypass closed and crack them door and mostly open the door without smoke spillage.  I found this out by accident as I forgot to open the bypass one time when reloading and then when realizing the mistake immediately opened it.


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## webby3650 (Feb 17, 2017)

ohiojoe13 said:


> I have only burned cord wood in my Ashford and I have the left side smoke smell. This is my second year burning with it. Last year the smoke smell drove me nuts. This year I have dealt with it. I was told it was a draft problem  and had a few phone calls with BKVP. I have a 3 foot section of class a I still need to add to my chimney to help with draft. I'm just not convinced it's a draft problem.


So why haven't you added the extra pipe then? If the manufacturer suggests it, I'd at least try rather than dealing with an issue. You'd have a hard time finding a more knowledgeable source than BKVP, I'd take his advice.


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## ohiojoe13 (Feb 17, 2017)

webby3650 said:


> So why haven't you added the extra pipe then? If the manufacturer suggests it, I'd at least try rather than dealing with an issue. You'd have a hard time finding a more knowledgeable source than BKVP, I'd take his advice.


I'm having a hard time finding someone to do it. My chimney is already about 9 foot above the roof line. I can't reach it to install it. I would also need another support.


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## aaronk25 (Feb 17, 2017)

ohiojoe13 said:


> I'm having a hard time finding someone to do it. My chimney is already about 9 foot above the roof line. I can't reach it to install it. I would also need another support.




Why not just buy a monometer for $30 bucks and stick the hose in though the chimney temp probe hole and see what the actual draft is to determine if there is in fact a problem?  The reason a person adds or subtracts chimney height, within reason is to increase or decrease draft.   There is lots of reasons why a chimney of equal size and length will produce different draft numbers, location, altitude ect.   Let's find out if there actually is a problem first.  


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## Ashful (Feb 17, 2017)

I read the first page of the thread before getting bored, but this sounds like classic back-puffing to me.  When I say that, don't infer that I mean you must be seeing violet back-puffs with smoke wheezing out of the stove.  It just means that you are reaching the point where you lose negative pressure inside the stove.  I say this because you report it happening only when you hear the thermostat click shut, which would make this a classic example of that scenario.

Back-puffing happens when the volatile gasses coming off the wood are not moving out through the exhaust (in your case, combustor) quickly enough, and they reach critical air/fuel ratio in the box to ignite and burn.  In more active cases there is a visible flash of fire, and in some extreme cases even a noise and expel of smoke through the air inlets, but that need not be the case to qualify.  It can be completely invisible and silent, in mild cases.

On one of my old catalytic Jotuls, I could predictably and repeatedly get it to back-puff by loading the box full with certain woods (walnut was the biggest offender), waiting a prescribed period of time (approx. 1 hour into the burn), and turning the air too low.  At the time, a few Woodstock owners (Fireviews?) were reporting the same trouble, so it's nothing unique to Blaze King.  It is something more prone to happen on catalytic stoves, simply due to their ability to run at these very low burn rates, where it is likely to occur.

Your solution:  find the minimum burn rate where this will not occur, put a mark on your dial, and never run below it.


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## Highbeam (Feb 17, 2017)

aaronk25 said:


> I don't want to read into what your saying to much but i didn't apply a pile of silicone behind the rope just a even spread to seal the the rope and threads and clearance holes for gasket retainer.



No reason to read more into it. I just didn't think you could reuse a gasket. I believe that the BK door design with those goofy nuts under the rope requires a big bed of silicone to work. Here's mine. I used a mountain of RTV.

Note that my BK gasket is grey. Using the OEM gasket is important. Mine came from BK.


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## Niko (Feb 17, 2017)

Can you post some pictures of your chimney from the outside, like from where it comes out of your house on your roof?  

I know after gaining much more experience with my stove i can now see all the problems i went threw when i first bought it.

Do you have any fans on in your house, or anything that maybe could be sucking the air out of your stove, appliances or maybe another chimney that is just left blank?


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## lsucet (Feb 17, 2017)

Highbeam said:


> Note that my BK gasket is grey. Using the OEM gasket is important. Mine came from BK.



  It can be possible they are using different gaskets? mine is clear color also and it came with it.


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## ohiojoe13 (Feb 17, 2017)

aaronk25 said:


> Why not just buy a monometer for $30 bucks and stick the hose in though the chimney temp probe hole and see what the actual draft is to determine if there is in fact a problem?  The reason a person adds or subtracts chimney height, within reason is to increase or decrease draft.   There is lots of reasons why a chimney of equal size and length will produce different draft numbers, location, altitude ect.   Let's find out if there actually is a problem first.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That's what I probably should do. But I don't have a flue temp probe hole.


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## lsucet (Feb 17, 2017)

ohiojoe13 said:


> That's what I probably should do. But I don't have a flue temp probe hole.



 I drilled mine in the back at the collar adapter and covert it with a screw later. For some reason I was told that is better to measure draft close to the stove as possible.


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## Highbeam (Feb 17, 2017)

lsucet said:


> It can be possible they are using different gaskets? mine is clear color also and it came with it.



You bet it's possible that they changed suppliers/colors. BK gasket is a special high density material. So as long as nobody got some generic stuff we can rule it out.


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## black smoke signals (Feb 17, 2017)

Kennys post #52 I have an open mind and I think you have the best answer. Ashful I just bought a Lamborghini with a 8 speed Transmision your telling me I can only run up to number 2 on the stick?


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## aaronk25 (Feb 17, 2017)

So interesting after stuffing the steel pad up in the right air chamber the left side of the door for the first time ever stayed pretty clean with a cloud of black soot on the right side.   There was less smell in the room than normal but sniffing the door I could still make a stink on the left side of the door and none from the right side, so I think BK should look into why the left side spots up more than the right side  even when wood is in back center of stove.   Next I'll take the advise of a poster and fix the seam in the rope so it's not in the straight away by the Hindge, which is where BK installed it at during manufacturing 


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## webby3650 (Feb 17, 2017)

Highbeam said:


> No reason to read more into it. I just didn't think you could reuse a gasket. I believe that the BK door design with those goofy nuts under the rope requires a big bed of silicone to work. Here's mine. I used a mountain of RTV.
> 
> Note that my BK gasket is grey. Using the OEM gasket is important. Mine came from BK.


I've never reused a gasket either. I wouldn't recommend doing that.


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## aaronk25 (Feb 17, 2017)

There was hardly and rtv on the seal when I removed it.  The nuts were clean.   The seal looked new when removed, but I'll replace it with a BK seal, but shouldn't have to given 2 months old!


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## Woody Stover (Feb 17, 2017)

aaronk25 said:


> There was hardly and rtv on the seal when I removed it.


That should probably work OK, then...


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## Ashful (Feb 17, 2017)

black smoke signals said:


> Ashful I just bought a Lamborghini with a 8 speed Transmision your telling me I can only run up to number 2 on the stick?



Nope.  More like 7.  Also, remember the knob on that thermostat has a lot more range than the internal mechanism.  You'll hear the internal mechanism on a cold stove click shut around 2 o'clock on the knob.  That's the setting that effectively closes the air control manually, completely defeating the thermostat. That setting is your allusionary "8th gear", and turning the knob down farther serves no purpose, other than over-driving the internal spring.  It will not increase your burn times any farther.


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## aaronk25 (Feb 18, 2017)

Well knock on wood but I think the problem is fixed.  So is a combination of the a door seal retainer and need for a tighter knitted door seal.  The other blaze King stoves such as the princess have a deeper leg on the door gasket retainer so when door is closed there is more say 5/8" of door seal that smoke would have to go though in order to get to atmosphere.  On my Ashford there is about 3/8" and it doesn't ramp up its flat or ramps down and there is no way to push the gasket further to the out side perimeter because to do that the gasket retainer would have to be moved outward but then the door wouldn't shut due interference with the stove casting.

My dealer ran out of BK door seal and had another mfg door seal there and when compared to a boat rope the BK seal has large webbing/knitting and this Black seal looked like a high end boat rope with very tight knitting.   

After installing I was amazed even on high how much longer and slower the flames moved and a chimney temp or around 450 instead of 550-600 on high.  Also ZERO SMOKE smell on low and my burn time increased by 20%.  

So I think the white seal is fine for other stoves because the retainers are bigger.  

The door must have been leaking   air in and out despite having past the $ bill test.  The leak must have went both ways.  

So I'm only into this solution now for about 12hours but, it was IMMEDIATELY noticeable the second I closed the door in burn rate and I could hear more air coming down my outside air make up.   I'll post pick tonight!   So happy I think this problem is solved.


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## lsucet (Feb 18, 2017)

aaronk25 said:


> Well knock on wood but I think the problem is fixed.  So is a combination of the a door seal retainer and need for a tighter knitted door seal.  The other blaze King stoves such as the princess have a deeper leg on the door gasket retainer so when door is closed there is more say 5/8" of door seal that smoke would have to go though in order to get to atmosphere.  On my Ashford there is about 3/8" and it doesn't ramp up its flat or ramps down and there is no way to push the gasket further to the out side perimeter because to do that the gasket retainer would have to be moved outward but then the door wouldn't shut due interference with the stove casting.
> 
> My dealer ran out of BK door seal and had another mfg door seal there and when compared to a boat rope the BK seal has large webbing/knitting and this Black seal looked like a high end boat rope with very tight knitting.
> 
> ...




  I am glad you get to fix the issue. I think i was having similar issue but i never experience any smoke smell at all. Last weekend i adjusted the door to give just a little tension because i was able to latch it real easy from day one but always pass the dollar bill test and i thought everything was ok. .

 Yes, I noticed a difference after the adjustment when i did a hot burn to clean the glass next day after the adjustment. With hot burn like that, the flue used to get around 900 df and after the adjustment i just seeing 700-750 df. when I start dial it down the flue temp start dropping faster than before, stove temp going up and cat real bright. Including way less smoke outside on reload. minutes after reload that the wood catch, is just steam. White/transparent/non dense and disappear between 3-5 feet from cap. Yes, is an improvement.

 About burn time i don't know yet, if got better. but last  night i toss 5 medium size splits of pine in there for the final overnight burn around 8 o'clock, I was able to make more room but was ok like that for me. i still have some big coal chunks in there from the initial hot fire i did when I got here. By midnight looks like everything was going ok just with pine.(first time i load just pine). at 4 AM the cat was a big bright night light.lol. By 8 o'clock everything was just big chunks of coals. i open draft, rake them to the front and still getting heat from that load. I think is possible it improve burn time but not sure.

 I going to toss a few pieces now and dial it down for the day.


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## black smoke signals (Feb 18, 2017)

AARON  Could the door be warped when hot? Placing a straight edge across FLAT side of the hinge might help some of us when looking for a fix. Ashful My black Lambo rips heater works fine no complains shifting needs work check engine light comes on when shifting to 4-5 and cruising I end up with this! Picture to follow


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## black smoke signals (Feb 18, 2017)




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## aaronk25 (Feb 18, 2017)

So the pics show the tighter braid to the fiberglass rope gasket than what came new with the unit.  I don't have the original mfg of the gasket material but I will get it Monday when the dealer is open.  It appears to be a higher quality rope as its more costly to mfg the tighter braids.  

But it's pretty obvious from the pic showing the key by the firebox opening and the casting the issue BK is having with getting enough clearance between the two in order to get a wider gasket retainer to work.   If they used the same size one as used on the classic stoves I think it would be a better design but that means changing the molds for the casting, which would be costly.  

Also with this stove it's important to note its design puts the logs closer to the door than other classic series and that means the rope gasket has a more demanding job right out of the gate.   


Let's see how well this lasts but as of now we're going on day 2 of no smoke smell at any setting!   Thanks for all the help everyone.



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## Woody Stover (Feb 18, 2017)

aaronk25 said:


> My dealer ran out of BK door seal and had another mfg door seal there and when compared to a boat rope the BK seal has large webbing/knitting and this Black seal looked like a high end boat rope with very tight knitting.


Great that you are making progress!  I don't understand exactly how that Ashford system works from that explanation and the pics, but are you saying you are going to get the OEM replacement gasket and install that? I always use OEM, that way you know you are getting the right stuff. I've never seen any high-density gasket at the farm store, or those bulk rolls at the stove shop.


black smoke signals said:


> cruising I end up with this! Picture to follow


Holy Kamoly, that cat is almost white!  I would run it lower, like in the medium-orange range, for longevity. But then again, I'm a girlie-man, not an extreme-sports guy; I don't drive a rocket around town, just an old, beat-down Corolla.


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## aaronk25 (Feb 18, 2017)

Woody Stover said:


> Great that you are making progress!  I don't understand exactly how that Ashford system works from that explanation and the pics, but are you saying you are going to get the OEM replacement gasket and install that? I always use OEM, that way you know you are getting the right stuff. I've never seen any high-density gasket at the farm store, or those bulk rolls at the stove shop.
> Holy Kamoly, that cat is almost white!  I would run it lower, like in the medium-orange range, for longevity. But then again, I'm a girlie-man, not an extreme-sports guy; I don't drive a rocket around town, just an old, beat-down Corolla.





The gasket I Installed is NOT a BK gasket.  The BK gasket is 1/2 of the problem.  The black gasket is tighter braided and I would speculate it is of higher quality and costs more than the BK gasket.

I would love to use genuine BK parts but preliminary it appears the OEM part is the problem.   Look at the picture again compare the black gasket not a BK product and look at the white gasket the 2 month old BK factory gasket.  Which one do you think is higher quality???  I'm not saying BK uses some low quality parts, just this gasket appears to be.

Any rope that has a tighter braid is higher quality.  





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## WoodyIsGoody (Feb 18, 2017)

aaronk25 said:


> Any rope that has a tighter braid is higher quality.



I doubt it's as simple as tighter braid = higher quality.

BK has a lot of experience designing high efficiency stoves and knows the importance of superior sealing at the interface of the stove body/door to achieve the longest burn times and efficiencies (especially on catalytic designs. I doubt they tried to save a few cents by compromising a stove selling for thousands of dollars. More likely, they found a tighter braid was not as compliant and could not compress as uniformly when the latch was tightened resulting in more air seepage.


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## aaronk25 (Feb 18, 2017)

Sitting here thinking about exchange and the others who have chimed in before me I must say I am disappointed in BK as a company.  I logged the problem twice with the dealer and with no help besides giving me a free non-oem gasket to try.  No site visit by a tech or contacting BK for support.

So I called BK Corp. and talked to a guy named Chris and he told me there was 8 or so stoves they sold that have been having the same problem with for some time and they have been unable to replicate the problem at their facility.  He said their engineering dept always pointed to low draft issues, which obviously I do not have.

Well I'm disappointed in BK because their level of commitment to solving the problem that has repeated with several customers stopped as soon as they couldn't duplicate it in their facility.  If you know there is a problem with your product it's unfortunate but it might require shipping the offending stove back or sending a factory engineer to the house of the offending stove to take advantage of the opportunity to troubleshoot the stove in the configuration that is causing the problem so that a engineering design change can take place, improving the product.

2 months ago I bought the best and most likely the most expensive product on the market because I wanted quality and great support if there was issues.  This is the reason I spent literally double for this stove when comparing to other products.

This problem is very solvable and instead of sitting here writing a review about how much I love my new Ashford 30.1  I'm sharing a experience that most likely doesn't look encouraging for someone trying to decide which manufacture to buy their next stove from.



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## Woody Stover (Feb 18, 2017)

aaronk25 said:


> The gasket I Installed is NOT a BK gasket....I would love to use genuine BK parts but preliminary it appears the OEM part is the problem.


OK, I gotcha. I still don't understand this "gasket retainer" you're referring to. Any door gasket I've seen has just been a channel that you put the adhesive in, then you put in the gasket. There are no retainers.
There is a bunch of gasket here...I think they used to have more bulk gasket of all densities on this website, but I can't find those right now... http://www.woodmanspartsplus.com/Maintenance/D65604N1C20O-1.html?infield=Filter6:Gaskets


WoodyIsGoody said:


> BK has a lot of experience designing high efficiency stoves and knows the importance of superior sealing at the interface of the stove body/door....I doubt they tried to save a few cents by compromising a stove selling for thousands of dollars.


Yeah, you would think so, but it appears to me that they have occasionally cut a few corners with regard to materials or R&D, despite the premium prices they charge.
The fact is, the OP is having more success with a different gasket than he did with the original gasket installed on the stove. Need to figure out why.


aaronk25 said:


> I logged the problem twice with the dealer and with no help besides giving me a free non-oem gasket to try.  No site visit by a tech or contacting BK for support.


Dealers are a mixed bag, from what I have seen on the forum. I don't have a lot of first-hand experience with them, but the couple we have here don't seem all that knowledgeable about their wood heaters, and I would assume about potential installation issues. Maybe they are more concerned with their spa business or whatever else they are making more money on?


> 2 months ago I bought the best and most likely the most expensive product on the market because I wanted quality and great support if there was issues.  This is the reason I spent literally double for this stove when comparing to other products.


So how did you come to the conclusion that this was "the best product on the market?" I didn't come to the same conclusion based on what I've read here. I know with more certainty what to expect as far as quality, durability and functionality from the brands I _do_ have first-hand experience with...
I would certainly agree that they are one of the most expensive.  I'm not sure exactly why...


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## shoot-straight (Feb 18, 2017)

Ashford owner here. In fact I got one of the first ones. I had a few bumps in the road. My dealer was worthless. Bk stepped up and has gone above and beyond to try to make me happy. I had the intermittent smoke smell as well. Bk sent me a new gasket and bolts for it. It's not gone 100%, but it's much much better. I do think when you have pressure spikes within the stove (explosions) it pushes out. Also low settings in warm weather. That's draft.


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## aaronk25 (Feb 18, 2017)

So if I get rid of this stove, what is the best stove to get with the priority being long burn rates and  somthing that is really well engineered?  Any suggestions?


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## Woody Stover (Feb 18, 2017)

aaronk25 said:


> what is the best stove to get with the priority being long burn rates and  somthing that is really well engineered?


 You're likely to find many folks here that are happy with their stove. But there have been problems with all brands. And different stoves suit a variety of different preferences and different heating needs. Thing is, nobody has run every stove out there and seen 'em all up close to assess their quality, engineering and ease of use; They can only comment on the stoves they have run, and may have no idea what they are missing by having their stove, instead of some others.
You seem to have decent mechanical aptitude; Why not just get the Ashford working and stick with it for now, since you've bought it and have it installed already? In the meantime, you can read up on a variety of other stoves. But I have to warn you, by the time you finally figure it all out, you'll be an old buzzard like the rest of us.


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## Niko (Feb 18, 2017)

aaronk25 said:


> Sitting here thinking about exchange and the others who have chimed in before me I must say I am disappointed in BK as a company.  I logged the problem twice with the dealer and with no help besides giving me a free non-oem gasket to try.  No site visit by a tech or contacting BK for support.
> 
> So I called BK Corp. and talked to a guy named Chris and he told me there was 8 or so stoves they sold that have been having the same problem with for some time and they have been unable to replicate the problem at their facility.  He said their engineering dept always pointed to low draft issues, which obviously I do not have.
> 
> ...




We all understand your frustration as i had some also when i first got my stove.   It takes a while to get used to something and maybe even longer then one would expect especially when your dealer doesnt help.   Most dealers Dont want to spend time figuring out problems even when they install em.  But you learn the stove better every time you load it and become more efficient at making it work for you.  Sorry for your problems but you have fixed it hopefully.   The woodstove business is not cut and dry as one would hope, i wish whenever i had a problem someone came over and fixed it.   But im happy for a place like this where we get to learn and ask questions about what to do.  If you take the time and read around the forum you see that a lot of us BK owners are very happy with what we got and the comany is pretty good.  The money you invested will pay itself off sooner then later from all the wood you save from chopping, stacking and loading.  I look at it like my time is worth something so the less i have to tend to my stove the more time i have to do something else, like being with me family.   This is the first woodstove i ever purchased and hopefully my last.  I researched for over 1 year on this site before i got my King.  


I know you pissed and mad now but i think with somemore experience with your stove you will understand why you bought it in the first place.  You also have a huge group of members on this website that will help you they best they can.  Which in my opinion is way better then the so called dealers that sell you the stove.  

Its funny cause i can never really get my dollar bill test perfect in all the corners of my door, i don't mess it with that much either.  I get 24 burns with a pretty much loose load of wood as i dont perfectly load my logs in like a tetris game and im happy with that.  Its up to you what you wanna do, but like I said their tons and tons of pages of guys and girls enjoing the Blaze King products so please take a look and see yourself.


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## Highbeam (Feb 19, 2017)

No other woodstove has performance specs that match the bk. Maybe a pellet stove with a giant hopper?

If bk was no longer a possibility, the next closest brand in terms of performance specs is the Woodstock line.


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## Ashful (Feb 19, 2017)

aaronk25 said:


> So if I get rid of this stove, what is the best stove to get with the priority being long burn rates and  somthing that is really well engineered?  Any suggestions?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



There is no other stove with burn times even remotely similar to BK.  To continue your Lamborghini analogy, you push the limits, you're likely to have a few more issues than a Toyota Corolla.

I would be surprised if you cannot find a setting on your BK, where you have a burn rate high enough to avoid smoking, yet not still lower than any other stove.  Or put otherwise, do you really believe there is another stove that will run lower in your same installation, without sharing the same problem?


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## webby3650 (Feb 20, 2017)

aaronk25 said:


> Sitting here thinking about exchange and the others who have chimed in before me I must say I am disappointed in BK as a company.  I logged the problem twice with the dealer and with no help besides giving me a free non-oem gasket to try.  No site visit by a tech or contacting BK for support.
> 
> So I called BK Corp. and talked to a guy named Chris and he told me there was 8 or so stoves they sold that have been having the same problem with for some time and they have been unable to replicate the problem at their facility.  He said their engineering dept always pointed to low draft issues, which obviously I do not have.
> 
> ...


First of all I'd say it's your dealer that's lacking here more than BK. 
With what other product would the factory send an engineer to your home for a service call or inspection? A refrigerator costs as much a stove these days, they sure ain't sending someone out the house! The dealer should be making a visit to your home, not the manufacturer..
  I doubt there is any other stove manufacturer out there except maybe 1 that you could call up and talk to anyone about your problem, especially someone with the experience level of Chris. It would be very advantageous of you to continue in talks with him so this issue can be resolved.


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## aaronk25 (Feb 20, 2017)

webby3650 said:


> First of all I'd say it's your dealer that's lacking here more than BK.
> With what other product would the factory send an engineer to your home for a service call or inspection? A refrigerator costs as much a stove these days, they sure ain't sending someone out the house! The dealer should be making a visit to your home, not the manufacturer..
> I doubt there is any other stove manufacturer out there except maybe 1 that you could call up and talk to anyone about your problem, especially someone with the experience level of Chris. It would be very advantageous of you to continue in talks with him so this issue can be resolved.



I appreciate your comment but I can't agree with the part about the factory not sending someone.  In home factory service isn't something that is realistic however when a mfg has several stoves out with a fundamental design flaw that they can't repeat in the factory it's time to go to the treating ground.  Maybe they have a customer closer than me that they could evaluate and then ultimately come up with a fix and send their dealer network, or sub-contract a local fab/welding shop to carry out the fix.  

If none of the dealers have been able to service this issue it becomes a factory issue. 

I can remember several times in my tenure as director of sales where we dispatched factory engineers to go to a customers site to come up with a solution when the problem was out of the dealers capability especially with newer products.

It just comes down to what is the level of commitment to the customer.  

And the problem is back, in part, not as bad, but it appears that new gaskets preform better the first couple days but after they get broken in allow some stink by on low.  This tells me that the gasket size and most likely retainer system is undersized and it takes a perfect new gasket to make it perform well.  

I'll be call king BK today to see what they plan on doing.  If they don't want to commit to a fix on this stove they can have this new one back, and give me a different model, I'll even pay more just can't live with this smoke smell.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## aaronk25 (Feb 20, 2017)

Does anyone know,  that is still following this thread if the BK princess stove has ever had any issues with smoke smell?  Anyone ever hear of anyone complaining?  That might be my next move if we can't fix this Ashford 30.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ashful (Feb 20, 2017)

aaronk25 said:


> Does anyone know,  that is still following this thread if the BK princess stove has ever had any issues with smoke smell?  Anyone ever hear of anyone complaining?  That might be my next move if we can't fix this Ashford 30.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I guess my memory could be flawed (okay, I know it is...), but I believe every smoke smell complaint I've seen in the last two years in which there haven't been obvious and extreme issues with improper installation, have been Ashford 30's.


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## webby3650 (Feb 20, 2017)

aaronk25 said:


> I appreciate your comment but I can't agree with the part about the factory not sending someone.  In home factory service isn't something that is realistic however when a mfg has several stoves out with a fundamental design flaw that they can't repeat in the factory it's time to go to the treating ground.  Maybe they have a customer closer than me that they could evaluate and then ultimately come up with a fix and send their dealer network, or sub-contract a local fab/welding shop to carry out the fix.
> 
> If none of the dealers have been able to service this issue it becomes a factory issue.
> 
> ...


No manufacturer is going send someone out. This is where your dealer comes into play. If they won't work with, then take it back...


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## Woody Stover (Feb 20, 2017)

Blast you fanboys! 


Highbeam said:


> No other woodstove has performance specs that match the bk.


Ah, phooey! Balderdash! Horse hockey! Bull roar! 


Ashful said:


> There is no other stove with burn times even remotely similar to BK.


Whoop-dee-doo!  _You_  may like that because you are running two stoves, but it really doesn't amount to a hill of beans to most people that live where they need heat and don't want their furnace coming on. No sir, if you need heat you're not getting a super-long burn no matter what stove you run. The guy lives in Rochester,  fer crapsake, not Philly cheese-steak land!  Or in Seattle where it's 45+ all the time (except maybe this year, for once.) Heck, even in this leaky house, I'm only loading once every 24 hrs in shoulder season and the temp doesn't vary more than a few degrees.


Ashful said:


> To continue your Lamborghini analogy, you push the limits, you're likely to have a few more issues


Well, that wasn't _his_ analogy, but it doesn't really apply to a BK anyway; The Lamb goes faster than everything else, the BK goes slower. 
@aaronk25, try to get the AshFORD working. Look upon it as a challenge to your deductive mechanical skills.  If not, get your money back and put a Woodstock in there, because you are going to appreciate the cleanliness of having a good, grated ash-handling system and it will pay off in less screwing around, much more than having a 30-hr. burn with the output of three candles _ever_ will. And you could spend about a thousand less.


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## rdust (Feb 20, 2017)

aaronk25 said:


> Does anyone know,  that is still following this thread if the BK princess stove has ever had any issues with smoke smell?  Anyone ever hear of anyone complaining?  That might be my next move if we can't fix this Ashford 30.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



My Princess would smell on occasion when I dialed it down too low before I installed a flue collar that sealed properly.


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## tarzan (Feb 20, 2017)

I agree with aakron25, there have been enough smoke smell complaints about the Ashford 30 that if BK can't duplicate it in house they should send someone out on a house call or two just too verify what is going on. 

Like it or not, Ashford 30's have become known for this issue.

Webby mentioned the experience Chris has. Chris flies all over the United States so if a customer with the smoke smell issue was willing too let him into there home it shouldn't be hard to hook up with a few out of all the areas he would already be visiting over the course of a winter.


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## webby3650 (Feb 21, 2017)

tarzan said:


> I agree with aakron25, there have been enough smoke smell complaints about the Ashford 30 that if BK can't duplicate it in house they should send someone out on a house call or two just too verify what is going on.
> 
> Like it or not, Ashford 30's have become known for this issue.
> 
> Webby mentioned the experience Chris has. Chris flies all over the United States so if a customer with the smoke smell issue was willing too let him into there home it shouldn't be hard to hook up with a few out of all the areas he would already be visiting over the course of a winter.


If the dealer was worth a damn that could probably be arranged.


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## webby3650 (Feb 21, 2017)

Woody Stover said:


> Blast you fanboys! Ah, phooey! Balderdash! Horse hockey! Bull roar!
> Whoop-dee-doo!  _You_  may like that because you are running two stoves, but it really doesn't amount to a hill of beans to most people that live where they need heat and don't want their furnace coming on. No sir, if you need heat you're not getting a super-long burn no matter what stove you run. The guy lives in Rochester,  fer crapsake, not Philly cheese-steak land!  Or in Seattle where it's 45+ all the time (except maybe this year, for once.) Heck, even in this leaky house, I'm only loading once every 24 hrs in shoulder season and the temp doesn't vary more than a few degrees.
> Well, that wasn't _his_ analogy, but it doesn't really apply to a BK anyway; The Lamb goes faster than everything else, the BK goes slower.
> @aaronk25, try to get the AshFORD working. Look upon it as a challenge to your deductive mechanical skills.  If not, get your money back and put a Woodstock in there, because you are going to appreciate the cleanliness of having a good, grated ash-handling system and it will pay off in less screwing around, much more than having a 30-hr. burn with the output of three candles _ever_ will. And you could spend about a thousand less.


Once again, BKs are no good and Woodstocks will solve all the issues. Hardly...

The fact that a BK can run slow continues to be looked at like that's all it can do. That is not the case, they will absolutely blow you out of the house if needed. The ones who can't make that happen have an extreme situation, -40, mega big stone house, or improperly installed. I can run this 70's ranch up in the 90's with mine, or I can keep it in the 70's even when the outside temps are high, with ease. I don't see how that could ever be a bad thing? I heat 24/7, wether it's super cold, or barely cold and have a comfortable home.


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## Woody Stover (Feb 21, 2017)

webby3650 said:


> Once again, BKs are no good and Woodstocks will solve all the issues.


Not saying that at all, my friend, but the question was the following, and it was met with the same tired replies, which I don't think hold much water:





aaronk25 said:


> what is the best stove to get with the priority being long burn rates and  somthing that is really well engineered?  Any suggestions?


From seeing and using the two Woodstock straight cats, I would say they fill the bill of burning long _and_ being well-engineered. I haven't run one of their hybrids yet, but when I finally get around to putting in an Absolute Steel (sight unseen,) I doubt I'll be disappointed.
It looks like I'm about to get an all-week burn out of my little Keystone...hard to beat _that!  _I'll probably take the opportunity to run a poker through the ash and pull the pan before I fire up again Sat. morning.


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## Ashful (Feb 21, 2017)

webby3650 said:


> Once again, BKs are no good and Woodstocks will solve all the issues. Hardly...
> 
> The fact that a BK can run slow continues to be looked at like that's all it can do. That is not the case, they will absolutely blow you out of the house if needed. The ones who can't make that happen have an extreme situation, -40, mega big stone house, or improperly installed. I can run this 70's ranch up in the 90's with mine, or I can keep it in the 70's even when the outside temps are high, with ease. I don't see how that could ever be a bad thing? I heat 24/7, wether it's super cold, or barely cold and have a comfortable home.


Agreed, although I do suspect I was cited as one of your exceptions.

However, if we're going to talk about running on high, the Ashford has a fatal flaw that may not be shared with the King or Princess:  the cats seem to clog with ash when the stove is run on higher settings.

Perhaps I was unable to get the combustor fully vacuumed 100% clean (internally) the first time it clogged, although it certainly looked clean from the surface I could view, or perhaps it was actually clean and has completely clogged a second time in a month.  I don't know yet, but I have watched my fire go from raging to almost instantly dead the last two nights, when closing my bypass damper on a well-charred load.  That has only happened with a plugged cat, in the past.  I let the stove go cold today, so I can investigate (again) tonight.

My second Ashford (yes, I have two) always runs at a lower setting, and has not experienced this problem after two seasons of 24/7 operation.  Same stove, same install date, same wood, same house, same operator... so it comes down to differences in burn rate and chimney height, as to why one clogs and the other does not.


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## tarzan (Feb 21, 2017)

Ashful said:


> Agreed, although I do suspect I was cited as one of your exceptions.
> 
> However, if we're going to talk about running on high, the Ashford has a fatal flaw that may not be shared with the King or Princess:  the cats seem to clog with ash when the stove is run on higher settings.
> 
> ...



I've never needed to do so, so can't verify but I figure if you could get a light behind the cat without much trouble it would take a lot of the guess work out of cleaning it.


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## Ashful (Feb 21, 2017)

tarzan said:


> I've never needed to do so, so can't verify but I figure if you could get a light behind the cat without much trouble it would take a lot of the guess work out of cleaning it.



Maybe I can slip one up thru the bypass door.  Then again, maybe pulling the pipe is warranted.  Just hate to take the time, and create a mess, if not necessary.


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## lsucet (Feb 21, 2017)

Ashful said:


> Maybe I can slip one up thru the bypass door.  Then again, maybe pulling the pipe is warranted.  Just hate to take the time, and create a mess, if not necessary.



 Hi Ashful. Which setup is giving you the issue, the short or the tall chimney?


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## Ashful (Feb 21, 2017)

lsucet said:


> Hi Ashful. Which setup is giving you the issue, the short or the tall chimney?


The stove I run on high also happens to be on the tall chimney.  One might assume chimney height is a factor in this, and it may be, but I never experienced a plugged cat on this stove when I was running it on lower settings.  It plugged after a few days running at higher burn rates, but was it a spontaneous problem, or accumulation from months of running low?


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## webby3650 (Feb 21, 2017)

Ashful said:


> Agreed, although I do suspect I was cited as one of your exceptions.
> 
> However, if we're going to talk about running on high, the Ashford has a fatal flaw that may not be shared with the King or Princess:  the cats seem to clog with ash when the stove is run on higher settings.
> 
> ...


It's an issue with the steel cat. It's cells are so small it susceptible to cloggage. Mine only had this issue recently, it looked clean, but the debris was way in the back. Unfortunately I had already pulled the cat, otherwise I would have blown some air through it.


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## lsucet (Feb 21, 2017)

Oh ok. I don't know how manufactures recommend to not exceed 0.06 WC. I found that to be impossible. running a stove on high in a average chimney goes way higher than that. it can be possible a taller chimney draft too much when stove is running on high, pulling to much crap thru the cat?


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## webby3650 (Feb 21, 2017)

lsucet said:


> Oh ok. I don't know how manufactures recommend to not exceed 0.06 WC. I found that to be impossible. running a stove on high in a average chimney goes way higher than that. it can be possible a taller chimney draft too much when stove is running on high, pulling to much crap thru the cat?


I have suspected ash from shoveling is being pulled into the cat on ones with excessive draft, even though the bypass is open.


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## lsucet (Feb 21, 2017)

webby3650 said:


> I have suspected ash from shoveling is being pulled into the cat on ones with excessive draft, even though the bypass is open.


yeah, i can see that


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## Highbeam (Feb 21, 2017)

Woody Stover said:


> From seeing and using the two Woodstock straight cats, I would say they fill the bill of burning long _and_ being well-engineered.



Well engineered but not long burning. Sure, longer than most non-cats which is great but nowhere near long enough to compete with a blaze king. The IS is rated by Woodstock for a shorter burntime but some folks have reported some respectable (but no, not BK long) burntimes from it. Burntimes mean a LOT to the OP and a LOT to most folks. Don't inject your personal values into this. The OP actually specified "long burning" as a criteria.

Tip: Insulting somebody and then clicking an emoji at the end is still insulting. It's not funny.


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## begreen (Feb 21, 2017)

Long burn times are relative to the owner and operator's needs and lifestyle. Based on stove sales and reports here, most folks seem to be content with burn times over 8 hrs.. Yes, there are some that need a longer burn time due to working circumstances or lifestyle, but the overwhelming majority of stoves sold are not shooting for a 24hr. burn and they continue to sell very well. Travis, Quad, Jotul, SBI, etc. sales volume is very high in comparison to cat stoves. Cats may be incorporated more widely due to the 2020 EPA rule, but that is assuming we even have an EPA as we know it by then.


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## Ashful (Feb 21, 2017)

begreen said:


> Long burn times are relative to the owner and operator's needs and lifestyle. Based on stove sales and reports here, most folks seem to be content with burn times over 8 hrs.. Yes, there are some that need a longer burn time due to working circumstances or lifestyle, but the overwhelming majority of stoves sold are not shooting for a 24hr. burn and they continue to sell very well. Travis, Quad, Jotul, SBI, etc. sales volume is very high in comparison to cat stoves. Cats may be incorporated more widely due to the 2020 EPA rule, but that is assuming we even have an EPA as we know it by then.


I disagree with this, on two levels.  First, there are many days when I'm able to burn my BK's, where I'd have never been able to burn my old stoves, thanks to this low burn capability.  Whether it be loading full and setting on low for a 36 hour burn time, or even short-loading and running on the same low setting for just a few hours at very low heat (eg. overnight), I have flexibility that non-BK owners lack.  Second, it takes a unique user to fully appreciate what they're even missing, until they've had an opportunity to burn a year or two on a stove with 24+ hour burn times.  I can't blame you for not understanding:  like you, I also think I have decent foresight, but failed to realize just how much this would benefit me until I owned one (or two).


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## begreen (Feb 21, 2017)

Again, this is not a pro-cat or non-cat observation. You've made a great choice for your circumstances and lifestyle. I can contrast this to our house and lifestyle and stove and can say the same thing. We are both able to burn comfortably in mild weather, (44F outside and a nice 73F inside with a fully loaded stove at 7 am). We are both happy with our stoves as are many if not most stove owners. Different strokes for different folks.


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## Highbeam (Feb 21, 2017)

begreen said:


> Long burn times are relative to the owner and operator's needs and lifestyle. Based on stove sales and reports here, most folks seem to be content with burn times over 8 hrs.. Yes,* there are some that need a longer burn time* due to working circumstances or lifestyle, but the overwhelming majority of stoves sold are not shooting for a 24hr. burn and they continue to sell very well. Travis, Quad, Jotul, SBI, etc. sales volume is very high in comparison to cat stoves. Cats may be incorporated more widely due to the 2020 EPA rule, but that is assuming we even have an EPA as we know it by then.



You bet. Furnace people and other part time burners may not require such long burn times and might use that flexibility to opt for another brand or technology that has other strong points. The OP was the one that identified long burn times as a criteria and we stove enthusiasts can deliver. If you only need 8-12 hours then there are a couple of options. 4-8 there are many options.

Very few people NEED a 24-36 hour burn time. You also don't NEED to run the BK stove on low settings to get those long burns. Once again, it seems folks forget that the burn rate on a BK is widely adjustable to suit your desires.  

BK has a smaller market share than the big boys, for now. Really though your electric car is extremely rare on the roads but that doesn't make the benefits of owning one any less real. Doesn't make the option to burn gas or electrons and more valuable. There are plenty of gas stations, nobody "needs" to burn electrons instead of gas.

If two stoves were equal in all ways except one could be turned down much lower and burn for 24 hours I do believe that most folks would opt for the longer burning stove. Why not? Is it ever a drawback?


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## begreen (Feb 21, 2017)

Highbeam said:


> If two stoves were equal in all ways except one could be turned down much lower and burn for 24 hours I do believe that most folks would opt for the longer burning stove. Why not? Is it ever a drawback?


But they aren't. Cat stoves by design are more complex and have tighter installation and operation rules. Not that this is a show stopper for some, but for others it is. Witness the longest and greatest volume discussions on Hearth.com are on the operation and performance of cat stoves. That's not coincidence.

The electric car analogy is interesting. It's why I'd rather burn electrons with the heat pump once the temps get in the 50s. It's easier, cheaper and much cleaner.


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## Highbeam (Feb 21, 2017)

begreen said:


> But they aren't. Cat stoves by design are more complex and have tighter installation and operation rules. Not that this is a show stopper for some, but for others it is. Witness the longest and greatest volume discussions on Hearth.com are on the operation and performance of cat stoves. That's not coincidence.



Come on BG, you just said that this is not a cat/noncat issue. And I agree. If you're willing to accept shorter burn times then non-cat options begin to fall into the potential candidate lists. With the non-cats are some other pleasant benefits such as lower average purchase price.



begreen said:


> Again, this is not a pro-cat or non-cat observation.



We have lots of options with plusses and minuses. One of those options is to trade additional complexity for the ability to burn at a wide range of outputs. Just as you spent extra money to have both an electrical and a gasoline drivetrain. Options.


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## begreen (Feb 21, 2017)

Highbeam said:


> We have lots of options with plusses and minuses. One of those options is to trade additional complexity for the ability to burn at a wide range of outputs. Just as you spent extra money to have both an electrical and a gasoline drivetrain. Options.


Exactly right. Options, values, personal needs and choices. The big difference with the car vs stove analogy is that many don't service their cars, but do service their wood stoves. There's an order of complexity difference.


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## lsucet (Feb 21, 2017)

I already made a decision in my life, that my main stove will be always a catalyst stove, unless some other technology come along and give me better performance and safety. I am just base on technologies not in brand. But, to have the advantage of long burn when possibly cause condition are milds and don't have to worry about overheating the place, or just toss two pieces, or, let me wait till midnight to load for the night. etc,  I will say that BK is the right stove for me to avoid all that, and yes i looked into other brands at the time i was shopping for a stove. I read for long time different forums etc. went to manufacturer's websites, compare data from them and what call beta testers and users were saying and sincerely, something did not match.

Went with BK and at least i am getting the performance that is advertised.  No data from other brand was claiming a performance like some were saying. at least owners of BK was matching so so what the website says, and well, i went with it.

 Including the other day when i have a mini chimney fire just at the bottom part of the stove pipe around the flue collar, i closed bypass, shut the air down, done. BLACK BOX INSTANTLY. I feel is more safe. I think a tube stove, base on my experience with my low/entry level tube stoves, the uncontrollable secondaries will continue giving air to the chimney making it worse.

  Please just a saying.


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## begreen (Feb 21, 2017)

Let's get back on topic with the OP's issue. I'm hoping a new gasket with a healthy amount of red silicone resolves the problem, but he has already replaced it once.

@aaronk25 what adhesive did you use to attach the new gasket with?


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## Highbeam (Feb 21, 2017)

begreen said:


> Let's get back on topic with the OP's issue. I'm hoping a new gasket with a healthy amount of red silicone resolves the problem, but he has already replaced it once.
> 
> @aaronk25 what adhesive did you use to attach the new gasket with?



To be fair, he reinstalled the old BK gasket on fresh rtv and when that didn't work replaced with a new non-OEM gasket. We have yet to see results with a new BK gasket but I don't know if he is willing to try at this point.

The described chimney should be strong enough to keep quite a suction on the stove.

I am not impressed with BK telling him to go talk to his dealer. Hoping that that was just a miscommunication. I would have expected some tech support since we know that dealers are often not worth their weight in firewood.


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## webby3650 (Feb 21, 2017)

Highbeam said:


> To be fair, he reinstalled the old BK gasket on fresh rtv and when that didn't work replaced with a new non-OEM gasket. We have yet to see results with a new BK gasket but I don't know if he is willing to try at this point.
> 
> The described chimney should be strong enough to keep quite a suction on the stove.
> 
> I am not impressed with BK telling him to go talk to his dealer. Hoping that that was just a miscommunication. I would have expected some tech support since we know that dealers are often not worth their weight in firewood.


Didn't he speak with BKVP?


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## BKVP (Feb 21, 2017)

I am in contact with the OP and we will resolve this matter.  As for the rest of the b.s. in here, that is PRECISELY why other mfg.'s shy away from this site  Since this matter relates to fewer than a dozen units, in 3 years, across all of North America, we will get the OP taken care of.  If you do not own a BK product and you just dropped in, think about how others perceive your observations and comments.  Input is valuable and "fanboys" of the product being discussed should contribute if they have something positive to contribute.  If you are a "fanboy" of another company, great but again, contribute only if it specifically addresses the issue. 

I need a drink.


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## aaronk25 (Feb 21, 2017)

Yep were in talks and I'm willing to participate with anything BK has to offer.   I think the next step is installing a new and current BK gasket in the stove.  It appears BK is stepping up and helping me.  I hope the end result is it's a simple fix and life is good for all and if all this leads to a fix that would be a great thing and we can all have cocktails and talk about how great our stoves are.  

And to the previous poster asking about what type of sealant I used it was red high temp silicone rtv sealant rated up to 650f.   It seems to survive behind the rope seal but any extra that ended up near the fire box didn't last the first hot fire.   


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## webby3650 (Feb 21, 2017)

aaronk25 said:


> Yep were in talks and I'm willing to participate with anything BK has to offer.   I think the next step is installing a new and current BK gasket in the stove.  It appears BK is stepping up and helping me.  I hope the end result is it's a simple fix and life is good for all and if all this leads to a fix that would be a great thing and we can all have cocktails and talk about how great our stoves are.
> 
> And to the previous poster asking about what type of sealant I used it was red high temp silicone rtv sealant rated up to 650f.   It seems to survive behind the rope seal but any extra that ended up near the fire box didn't last the first hot fire.
> 
> ...


Their customer service is unparalleled, they'll get ya fixed up. We work with most major brands, no one steps up like BK when there's an issue.


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## Ashful (Feb 21, 2017)

Relax, BKVP!  I've seen you garner more sales from this site, than perhaps any other brand.  The folks on this site, though we're nit-picky as hell, have likely been your best endorsement.  I'd have never even looked at BK, if not for webby3650, Highbeam, and others here, extolling their virtues.


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## Highbeam (Feb 21, 2017)

webby3650 said:


> Didn't he speak with BKVP?



He called BK a few times. I went back and couldn't find the quote where BK referred him to his dealer for assistance. Might have been another thread or person. First I had heard of that being done. Either way, glad BKVP is available to help him move forward as Aaron seems to really appreciate the long burn times.


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## BKVP (Feb 21, 2017)

webby3650 said:


> Their customer service is unparalleled, they'll get ya fixed up. We work with most major brands, no one steps up like BK when there's an issue.


Thank you Ashful.  Plenty relaxed, appreciate the support but we just need threads to stay on track.  I know you agree.


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## Woody Stover (Feb 22, 2017)

Ashful said:


> the Ashford has a fatal flaw that may not be shared with the King or Princess:  the cats seem to clog with ash when the stove is run on higher settings


Well, I wouldn't call it 'fatal.' How about getting a piece of Iconel or other high-temp screen and fashion a shield you can put in front of the cat intake? The screen on my stove catches quite a bit of ash before it gets to the cat, and you can easily brush it off when the stove is out.


BKVP said:


> Input is valuable and "fanboys" of the product being discussed should contribute if they have something positive to contribute.  If you are a "fanboy" of another company, great but again, contribute only if it specifically addresses the issue...we just need threads to stay on track.


Whoa, easy, Ranger! It was the OP who asked a question about "what is the best stove to get with the priority being long burn rates and something that is really well engineered?" At first I gave a generic response that "there's no stove that's all things to all people....no perfect stoves, blah blah." Then, here they come with the "long burn time" pitch again, after several owners in this thread said they can't burn real low without some smoke smell. In other threads, issues have been raised such as crashed cats or gunked chimneys with too-low burn rates. OK, they can burn pretty long with even a medium air setting...that's great. But what about the "engineering" that the OP asked about? Somehow, that never gets mentioned. I realize my tongue-in-cheek rant parody is taken too seriously by some here, and I understand that it may not translate well on the internet. That's one of my shortcomings, I guess. But I still think it's kinda funny sometimes. 


> I need a drink.


Not surprising. Might be wise to lay in at least a case o' the good stuff.  


begreen said:


> Let's get back on topic with the OP's issue.


Yeah, I don't really understand what happened. The OP was sailing along with the new (non-OEM) flat gasket in there, no smoke smell and the next thing we know he's in private communication with BKVP, with no explanation of what they are going to try, and how they expect it will address the problem. I just don't see how the smoke is getting out of the stove, with the draft he's got. I'd like to know how tall that chimney is? I'll be watching to see what happens with this...hope it doesn't just disappear with no answers, like some of _my_ questions do.


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## webby3650 (Feb 22, 2017)

Woody Stover said:


> Well, I wouldn't call it 'fatal.' How about getting a piece of Iconel or other high-temp screen and fashion a shield you can put in front of the cat intake? The screen on my stove catches quite a bit of ash before it gets to the cat, and you can easily brush it off when the stove is out.
> Whoa, easy, Ranger! It was the OP who asked a question about "what is the best stove to get with the priority being long burn rates and something that is really well engineered?" At first I gave a generic response that "there's no stove that's all things to all people....no perfect stoves, blah blah." Then, here they come with the "long burn time" pitch again, after several owners in this thread said they can't burn real low without some smoke smell. In other threads, issues have been raised such as crashed cats or gunked chimneys with too-low burn rates. OK, they can burn pretty long with even a medium air setting...that's great. But what about the "engineering" that the OP asked about? Somehow, that never gets mentioned. I realize my tongue-in-cheek rant parody is taken too seriously by some here, and I understand that it may not translate well on the internet. That's one of my shortcomings, I guess. But I still think it's kinda funny sometimes.
> Not surprising. Might be wise to lay in at least a case o' the good stuff.
> Yeah, I don't really understand what happened. The OP was sailing along with the new (non-OEM) flat gasket in there, no smoke smell and the next thing we know he's in private communication with BKVP, with no explanation of what they are going to try, and how they expect it will address the problem. I just don't see how the smoke is getting out of the stove, with the draft he's got. I'd like to know how tall that chimney is? I'll be watching to see what happens with this...hope it doesn't just disappear with no answers, like some of _my_ questions do.


A screen over the flame shield is not a good idea I don't think. It would clog very easily and mess with the burn.
For the most part, the vast majority of BKs owners can run the stove on low with no issues. Some experience issues in warmer weather, when draft is reduced. Or when the air is reduced too quickly, it's for a very brief amount of time. I Also think that some of these people are hyper sensitive to the smell, while it wouldn't be noticed by others. Remember, This "issue" is only a few per 10,000.. or so.


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## BKVP (Feb 22, 2017)

Woody Stover said:


> Well, I wouldn't call it 'fatal.' How about getting a piece of Iconel or other high-temp screen and fashion a shield you can put in front of the cat intake? The screen on my stove catches quite a bit of ash before it gets to the cat, and you can easily brush it off when the stove is out.
> Whoa, easy, Ranger! It was the OP who asked a question about "what is the best stove to get with the priority being long burn rates and something that is really well engineered?" At first I gave a generic response that "there's no stove that's all things to all people....no perfect stoves, blah blah." Then, here they come with the "long burn time" pitch again, after several owners in this thread said they can't burn real low without some smoke smell. In other threads, issues have been raised such as crashed cats or gunked chimneys with too-low burn rates. OK, they can burn pretty long with even a medium air setting...that's great. But what about the "engineering" that the OP asked about? Somehow, that never gets mentioned. I realize my tongue-in-cheek rant parody is taken too seriously by some here, and I understand that it may not translate well on the internet. That's one of my shortcomings, I guess. But I still think it's kinda funny sometimes.
> Not surprising. Might be wise to lay in at least a case o' the good stuff.
> Yeah, I don't really understand what happened. The OP was sailing along with the new (non-OEM) flat gasket in there, no smoke smell and the next thing we know he's in private communication with BKVP, with no explanation of what they are going to try, and how they expect it will address the problem. I just don't see how the smoke is getting out of the stove, with the draft he's got. I'd like to know how tall that chimney is? I'll be watching to see what happens with this...hope it doesn't just disappear with no answers, like some of _my_ questions do.


You know Woody....nevermind it won't do me any good.


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## rdust (Feb 22, 2017)

webby3650 said:


> I Also think that some of these people are hyper sensitive to the smell, while it wouldn't be noticed by others.



I have a similar take on it.  I get a feeling the Ashford since it's a "nicer" looking stove is ending up in "fancier" homes with a different kind of user.  My stove had some stink before I swapped a 90 for 2 45's and then pretty much went away when I fixed the flue collar this year.      You had to darn near burn your nose on the stove to smell it, my wife would look at me crazy when I tried to smell it.

If it's a smell that you can smell when enter the room it's a problem.  If you have to put your nose to the stove and then maybe smell something it's probably nothing to worry about.


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## BKVP (Feb 22, 2017)

rdust said:


> I have a similar take on it.  I get a feeling the Ashford since it's a "nicer" looking stove is ending up in "fancier" homes with a different kind of user.  My stove had some stink before I swapped a 90 for 2 45's and then pretty much went away when I fixed the flue collar this year.      You had to darn near burn your nose on the stove to smell it, my wife would look at me crazy when I tried to smell it.
> 
> If it's a smell that you can smell when enter the room it's a problem.  If you have to put your nose to the stove and then maybe smell something it's probably nothing to worry about.


My German Shorthair passed away years ago and I have yet to replace her....how are you on pheasants and Hungarian partridge?


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## webby3650 (Feb 22, 2017)

rdust said:


> I have a similar take on it.  I get a feeling the Ashford since it's a "nicer" looking stove is ending up in "fancier" homes with a different kind of user.  My stove had some stink before I swapped a 90 for 2 45's and then pretty much went away when I fixed the flue collar this year.      You had to darn near burn your nose on the stove to smell it, my wife would look at me crazy when I tried to smell it.
> 
> If it's a smell that you can smell when enter the room it's a problem.  If you have to put your nose to the stove and then maybe smell something it's probably nothing to worry about.


I also think the flue collar connection is overlooked, like it is on most stoves. All these double wall pipe manufacturers don't really make a good way to make a secure connection on the stovetop. This part is omitted from the installation instructions. They offer a stovetop adaptor, that fits like crap on most stoves. It's pretty bad when the pipe fits the stove better without the adaptor!  We have a way to make a nearly airtight fit, it's not conventional, but after years of trying to make these connections work out it became appartant that a fix was needed, unconventional or not.


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## aaronk25 (Feb 22, 2017)

Woody Stover said:


> Well, I wouldn't call it 'fatal.' How about getting a piece of Iconel or other high-temp screen and fashion a shield you can put in front of the cat intake? The screen on my stove catches quite a bit of ash before it gets to the cat, and you can easily brush it off when the stove is out.
> Whoa, easy, Ranger! It was the OP who asked a question about "what is the best stove to get with the priority being long burn rates and something that is really well engineered?" At first I gave a generic response that "there's no stove that's all things to all people....no perfect stoves, blah blah." Then, here they come with the "long burn time" pitch again, after several owners in this thread said they can't burn real low without some smoke smell. In other threads, issues have been raised such as crashed cats or gunked chimneys with too-low burn rates. OK, they can burn pretty long with even a medium air setting...that's great. But what about the "engineering" that the OP asked about? Somehow, that never gets mentioned. I realize my tongue-in-cheek rant parody is taken too seriously by some here, and I understand that it may not translate well on the internet. That's one of my shortcomings, I guess. But I still think it's kinda funny sometimes.
> Not surprising. Might be wise to lay in at least a case o' the good stuff.
> Yeah, I don't really understand what happened. The OP was sailing along with the new (non-OEM) flat gasket in there, no smoke smell and the next thing we know he's in private communication with BKVP, with no explanation of what they are going to try, and how they expect it will address the problem. I just don't see how the smoke is getting out of the stove, with the draft he's got. I'd like to know how tall that chimney is? I'll be watching to see what happens with this...hope it doesn't just disappear with no answers, like some of _my_ questions do.




Yep BK is working on a solution and we should know by this time next week if it will work.  I'm pretty happy about the job they have done coming up with what should be a fix.   I'll report back with a update late next week.

The chimney is a 6" supervent with 21' of rise with the high flow deluxe cap, no screen.  Draft isn't the issue, in fact I have a damper I'm going to install when I shut the stove down to install the BK parts next week.  

Today it was unseasonably warm (55f) and the chimney draft was .05 running on low after a 16 hour burn.  When it gets to 0f draft is .15, so for those conditions we should damper it down.


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## Niko (Feb 22, 2017)

webby3650 said:


> I also think the flue collar connection is overlooked, like it is on most stoves. All these double wall pipe manufacturers don't really make a good way to make a secure connection on the stovetop. This part is omitted from the installation instructions. They offer a stovetop adaptor, that fits like crap on most stoves. It's pretty bad when the pipe fits the stove better without the adaptor!  We have a way to make a nearly airtight fit, it's not conventional, but after years of trying to make these connections work out it became appartant that a fix was needed, unconventional or not.




I think maybe the manufacturers should also make their flur collar a bit longer also so it goes inside the double wall pipe batter and deaper.  I know its more metal on the manufacturer side.   I dunno just a thought.


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## Woody Stover (Feb 23, 2017)

webby3650 said:


> A screen over the flame shield is not a good idea I don't think. It would clog very easily and mess with the burn.
> I Also think that some of these people are hyper sensitive to the smell, while it wouldn't be noticed by others. Remember, This "issue" is only a few per 10,000.. or so.


We don't really know. How many just figure "That's just the way it is if you burn wood." How many give up and sell the stove?
As far as the screen, yeah it will plug up but it would be easy to either take out, or just brush it off without removing it. It's probably going to slow down the flow a bit, but the thermostat setting should compensate for that I'd think, if you have good draft. Blowing the cat out with compressed air in your living room isn't too appealing...


BKVP said:


> You know Woody....nevermind it won't do any good.


Yeah, probably not.  Next time you go bird hunting , just say to yourself "There's that bird-brain Woody!" Kapow! When the dog brings it, tell him "Go ahead and eat that one." 


rdust said:


> I get a feeling the Ashford since it's a "nicer" looking stove is ending up in "fancier" homes with a different kind of user.
> pretty much went away when I fixed the flue collar this year. You had to darn near burn your nose on the stove to smell it....If it's a smell that you can smell when enter the room it's a problem.


Yeah, this stove thing isn't for the genteel class; The dealer ain't always gonna fix you up, so sometimes ya gotta roll up your sleeves, get in there, and deal with something. I had air leaking in a vertical seam on the Ks from day one. When it got bad enough, I finally had to go in and patch it. With the Buck, I had to do a minor tweak on the air plates to tighten 'er up. Comes with the territory.
Heck, I occasionally get a faint creo smell on start-up. I guess it's creo burning off as I ramp up to temp. But it doesn't happen much, and I have to stick my nose right down to the top of the stove to smell it. I guess it's the gasket on the plate covering the top flue opening. Never done any gaskets on the stove yet so I'm probably due. But since I don't smell it in the house, I haven't been too concerned.


webby3650 said:


> I also think the flue collar connection is overlooked....We have a way to make a nearly airtight fit, it's not conventional,


Well?? What do we hafta do, hire you and watch just to find out your secret?  Does it involve some type of gasket?


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## weatherguy (Feb 23, 2017)

Woodstock tried the iconel screen on the progress hybrid, it just meant cleaning two things instead of one, I took mine off and the cat doesn't clog any quicker and I don't have to mess with screen to clean it anymore.


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## Woody Stover (Feb 23, 2017)

Ashful said:


> The stove I run on high also happens to be on the tall chimney.  One might assume chimney height is a factor in this, and it may be, but I never experienced a plugged cat on this stove when I was running it on lower settings.  It plugged after a few days running at higher burn rates, but was it a spontaneous problem, or accumulation from months of running low?





webby3650 said:


> It's an issue with the steel cat.





webby3650 said:


> I have suspected ash from shoveling is being pulled into the cat on ones with excessive draft, even though the bypass is open.





weatherguy said:


> tried the iconel screen on the progress hybrid, it just meant cleaning two things instead of one, I took mine off and the cat doesn't clog any quicker and I don't have to mess with screen to clean it anymore.


OK, well how tall is your chimney? Obviously, if you have the grate, you're not shoveling and stirring up ash dust. How high do you run the air? How often do you have to clean the cat? How hard is it to get out, since you can't just lift the lid?


begreen said:


> Let's get back on topic with the OP's issue.





BKVP said:


> we just need threads to stay on track.  I know you agree.


Sorry, no can do; We have a week to kill before we get any action in this thread.


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## nEWRfire (Feb 23, 2017)

Keep us updated . I need to place an order for a stove next week now considering princess over ashford


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## Woody Stover (Feb 23, 2017)

nEWRfire said:


> Keep us updated . I need to place an order for a stove next week now considering princess over ashford


Season appears to be about over...you've got time. Got plenty of dry wood already?


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## begreen (Feb 23, 2017)

webby3650 said:


> I also think the flue collar connection is overlooked, like it is on most stoves. All these double wall pipe manufacturers don't really make a good way to make a secure connection on the stovetop. This part is omitted from the installation instructions. They offer a stovetop adaptor, that fits like crap on most stoves. It's pretty bad when the pipe fits the stove better without the adaptor!  We have a way to make a nearly airtight fit, it's not conventional, but after years of trying to make these connections work out it became appartant that a fix was needed, unconventional or not.


If you could find a moment could you post a new thread on successful double-wall stove pipe adapter/stove flue collar combinations. That would be helpful.


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## webby3650 (Feb 23, 2017)

begreen said:


> If you could find a moment could you post a new thread on successful double-wall stove pipe adapter/stove flue collar combinations. That would be helpful.


Ohh, I don't know. So many people are quick to be critical of anything unconventional...


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## begreen (Feb 23, 2017)

Go for it.


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## lsucet (Feb 23, 2017)

webby3650 said:


> Ohh, I don't know. So many people are quick to be critical of anything unconventional...



  Well that is life. Not much can be done about it. But it is true that those collar adapters need some attention. After all you will be helping and contributing in a positive way and many can benefit of it. I don't see any harm.


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## aaronk25 (Feb 23, 2017)

I'm all ears too but given the pressure drop is the greatest in the entire chimney system right at the stove collar I just doubt smoke would escape there, but......


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## lsucet (Feb 23, 2017)

aaronk25 said:


> I'm all ears too but given the pressure drop is the greatest in the entire chimney system right at the stove collar I just doubt smoke would escape there, but......
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



 For me that is the weakest spot with every install that I did. I return one cause it didn't seal at all after I burnt a few times and I was getting smell but not smoke


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## rdust (Feb 23, 2017)

begreen said:


> If you could find a moment could you post a new thread on successful double-wall stove pipe adapter/stove flue collar combinations. That would be helpful.



Here is a post I made on mine. https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...ead-everything-bk.155890/page-80#post-2143748


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## Woody Stover (Feb 23, 2017)

rdust said:


> Here is a post I made on mine. https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...ead-everything-bk.155890/page-80#post-2143748


Aha, his secret is out!


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## webby3650 (Feb 23, 2017)

rdust said:


> Here is a post I made on mine. https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...ead-everything-bk.155890/page-80#post-2143748


It wouldn't work with DSP though I don't think. We never use that line, can't say for sure. You could ask Menards!


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## webby3650 (Feb 23, 2017)

Woody Stover said:


> Aha, his secret is out!


I think this method resolves a lot of issues. Like the fact that every joint needs 3 screws but every double wall pipe manufacturer ignores this fact! And sloppy stovetop adapters leak smoke! All credit must go to @sticks , he came up with this idea. After what? 30 years of battling it out on your own you figured this out?


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## aaronk25 (Mar 7, 2017)

So Blaze King has been very responsive and has asked that the unit I have be returned to them so they can test the unit.  I will be receiving a replacement unit. 

So I'm impressed with the level of commitment these guys are taking.   


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## Squisher (Mar 9, 2017)

Wow. That's top customer service IMO.


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## nEWRfire (Apr 10, 2017)

How did your new unit work out aaronk25?


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## Rickb (Apr 10, 2017)

If he isnt here complaining I would assume he must be happy. lol


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## webby3650 (Apr 10, 2017)

Rickb said:


> If he isnt here complaining I would assume he must be happy. lol


Unfortunately that's all too common. People tend to here with an issue then never bother to comment after things are resolved.


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## aaronk25 (Apr 10, 2017)

Easy webby.   Easy.  I ended up with a princess model.  I'm a happy camper.  No issues, great company.  In MN now we're getting 30s-40 at night with wind and days 45-65.  Im running about 24 hour to maybe 30 hour reloads.  There is no smell at all.   I know there are hundreds and hundreds of Ashford 30s out there so I think I just got one with a issue.  Regardless they made it right and I'm going to order another stove from them for a cabin up north this summer.  


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## webby3650 (Apr 10, 2017)

aaronk25 said:


> Easy webby.   Easy.  I ended up with a princess model.  I'm a happy camper.  No issues, great company.  In MN now we're getting 30s-40 at night with wind and days 45-65.  Im running about 24 hour to maybe 30 hour reloads.  There is no smell at all.   I know there are hundreds and hundreds of Ashford 30s out there so I think I just got one with a issue.  Regardless they made it right and I'm going to order another stove from them for a cabin up north this summer.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That wasn't meant to be directed at you. It's all too common to never hear an update though. 

I'm glad it worked out so well! With no smell I'd be on here singin some praises after you're ordeal!


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