# Breckwell BigE and C-E-402 Control board electrical issue



## jtakeman (Dec 30, 2008)

Hi All,

Does anyone have the schematic for the C-E-402 control board?

I am having an issue with mine. It will not feed pellets on the #1 setting. This happened after a power outage. It feeds pellets on all other settings. Even when I trim the number 1 feedrate. (IE 1+3 and 1+4).

I have moderate electronic abilities so I should be able to repair this myself. My stove is out of warranty and my local dealer want an arm and a leg for the board.

I don't think its the triac's or opto-isolator's. I think they are for feeds 2 thru 5. I just can't figure out the problem with out the schematic. Not really sure how the low tem setting works.

Any help would be great and Thanks in advance

jtakeman


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## kinsmanstoves (Dec 30, 2008)

I will send you a PM on this.

Eric


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## jtakeman (Dec 30, 2008)

Thank you Eric, I await your PM.


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## jtakeman (Jan 3, 2009)

Eric,

I think I found my problem with the board. I am not getting an output from the MCU(atmel AT89S52  chip) The output is what triggers the auger feed. Each speed has its own output from the MCU.

Could you see if there is any possible way to get the this chip? I have the tools to change it. 

Let me know?

Jay


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## kinsmanstoves (Jan 4, 2009)

jtakeman said:
			
		

> Eric,
> 
> I think I found my problem with the board. I am not getting an output from the MCU(atmel AT89S52  chip) The output is what triggers the auger feed. Each speed has its own output from the MCU.
> 
> ...



I would say nope.  I have a hard time getting all the boards replaced that are bad much less a chip,

Eric


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## theking (Jan 4, 2009)

Hi Jay,

Getting the Atmel part isn't an issue, you can most likely get them from Digikey. The issue is getting the code to flash the part with. I don't believe anyone will release this to you, or anyone else for that matter. Since the micro is surface mount, it's not a typical user replaceable part. That is one reason I have been looking for a P23 digital control board from someone that has replaced theirs. When I do finally find one, I'm going to replace the Atmel with my own, with custom code. This is more for customization and not being tied to the factory chip in the event my control boards IC ever gets damaged. I can replace just about any component on the board, aside from the ASIC(since no code for it).

Since my board works just fine and is still under warranty, I'm not going to mess with it unless I absolutely had to.

Sorry, I don't have a schematic either.

Rgds,

Dan


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## kinsmanstoves (Jan 4, 2009)

I have just received three new boards and they are numbered C-E-401 on the box but the sticker on the board shows CE-403. Guess this is the third revision in the saga of bad boards. 

I am still waiting for a new description on the face plate for the toggle switch.  I would love to meet the "Rocket Scientist" that made it.

Eric


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## jtakeman (Jan 4, 2009)

Eric,

Post a picture of that new board if you could. I like to see it. I might order one if they have fixed some of the issues we have.


Dan,

I just thought I'd ask, I don't want there code. I have a perfectly good board with a bad chip. If I got a chip from a Breckwell source, It would be digitaly locked as all there chips should be. I just can't see replacing a whole board when there is only a $5.00 bad component. 

I would be interested in how you make out with your project. I work on manufactoring equipment and deal with plc's. Though I don't code them. The engineer's get to do that. I just debug and make suggestions. I would love to learn to code in C+. But never fine the time to get started. I also never had to deal with one of these little micro controllers. In the industry we tend to stick to plc's.

If you get your project up and running and you willing to share with a smuck like me I would be greatfull. I would also like to tweak my stove to my standards or Someones standards that are a little higher than Breckwells. In MPO Breckwell needs to tweak these boards to each stove not just mass produce and ship them out. I know in my field there are no two machines that are alike. Each machine is close but you always need to tinker a little to get them to be as they need to be. But that just my thought's.

Please keep me posted, I am eager to learn how you make out.

jay


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## theking (Jan 4, 2009)

Hi Jay,

The only mods I've made so far were to build my own wireless link to connect a honeywell programmable thermostat to my P23. I enjoy modifying and building electronic projects. I haven't started the controller project yet, I have to find a dead board first. if I make progress I'll definately share the result. I've already duplicated the thermostat project for a friend in town that has the same stove.

I'm with you though, definately not worth scrapping a good board due to a cheap chip. That's my real concern if I ever do experience Atmel failure since the only alternative besides a homebrew code is to but another controller.

Another project that I finished related to the stove, was I build my own "freezestat" that periodically runs my forced hotwater oil based system to make sure I don't freeze any pipes. I decoded the wireless data from an LaCrosse wireless outdoot thermometer to tell the design when the outside temperature is cold enough to warrant freeze protection. Then the system turns on my curculators for 5 minutes every three hours. It works pretty well.

If you decide to get started with microcontrollers, I strongly recommend visiting sparkfun.com. they sell all kinds of started boards to get you going and they have a great forum if you have questions. I use there PIC based UBW boards ($24.95) for my projects. They have a built in USB controller and a bootloader through the USB so you don't need any hardware to program them with custom built code. The only other purchase you would need to make would be a C compiler. The one I use is by Custom Computer Services INC and they have a compiler for low cost. They even have a free one to get started but only supports a few PIC components. If you ever decide to get started, hit me up. I'd be glad to help.

Rgds,

Dan


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## jtakeman (Jan 4, 2009)

Wow, I thought I tinkered alot. Youve got me beat for sure. I wish I had the time to do some of my idea's. I got several projects planned and more that enough components to do them. Boxes of parts to play with.

Right now, I have a project for a friends train lay out. I am making an interface to control the track switches and the signal lighting. Right from the hand held controller. It's taking all my free time for now. But thats trivial and I'm off subject. I will definatly check out your link to please my curiosity.

jay


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## jtakeman (Jan 11, 2009)

Update,

I had another dealer look at my stove and The service guy seemed to know what he was doing.

He checked the amp draw on the Auger motor and the blower motors. Seems the auger motor was drawing to many amps for the board to handle. So Off to the truck he went. He replace the auger motor and the conv blower(noisy). And for good measure(seeing the grief my local dealer put me thru) Thru in a new control board as well said he wouldn't trust the old one. I also got a free complete cleaning from him. 

So I learned some thing. All dealers are not bad! Some actually care about the customer.

My 2nd year bigE is throwing out more heat than new. Seems to be quiter as from the new blower motor(C-E-029). 

jay


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## cpljohnson (Aug 29, 2009)

Has anyone found a schematic for this circuit board yet?  I had a lightning strike this summer and it blew the cap next to the fuse on my board and the marking that were on it are gone.  Anyone know what size that cap is supposed to be?  Like the rest of you, I can't imagine spending a couple hundred on a new board when a fifty cent ceramic capacitor will fix the problem!


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## slls (Aug 29, 2009)

Are you saying you left it plugged in all summer.


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## jtakeman (Aug 29, 2009)

cpljohnson said:
			
		

> Has anyone found a schematic for this circuit board yet? I had a lightning strike this summer and it blew the cap next to the fuse on my board and the marking that were on it are gone. Anyone know what size that cap is supposed to be? Like the rest of you, I can't imagine spending a couple hundred on a new board when a fifty cent ceramic capacitor will fix the problem!



No schematic, Proprietary stuff ta no. They can't sell boards with us fixing them. 

Are you sure there is no othere damage to the board? 

jay


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## cpljohnson (Aug 29, 2009)

Yep, it was plugged in all summer.    As best I can tell, there is no other damage.  The run to the capacitor got pretty hot and burned the varnish, but it ohms out fine - it wasn't burned through.  It appears that the capacitor took the brunt of the damage.  I'll know for sure when I replace it.  Anyone out there have one of these boards they can check out and see what size it should be?


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## jtakeman (Aug 29, 2009)

cpljohnson said:
			
		

> Yep, it was plugged in all summer.    As best I can tell, there is no other damage.  The run to the capacitor got pretty hot and burned the varnish, but it ohms out fine - it wasn't burned through.  It appears that the capacitor took the brunt of the damage.  I'll know for sure when I replace it.  Anyone out there have one of these boards they can check out and see what size it should be?



We need the board number and the revision too! IE= CE-401 402 sticker on the relay block. ect.

I have the brand new board in my bigE. and an old board spare there both different!

This is just to be sure we get you the right numbers!

jay


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## cpljohnson (Aug 30, 2009)

I have the CE-401 board in a Big E stove.  The problem capacitor is a red ceramic disc type next to the fuse above the harness socket.


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## Rick a Pellets (Nov 19, 2010)

hey could someone help me out? I have a Breckwell p23 stove, C-E-401, 2006 model. I cant seem to get the on/off mode to work at all. It wont even do any thing after plugging in. The high low setting will run but wont work correctly. It just lights up and runs on the low setting. Guy from breckwell told me it sounded like a bad controller. So I fell for it and bought a new version A-E-401. And it does the same thing for $300 shipped to the house. I should add that it runs fine in the manual mode. even changed the themostat to see if that would affect it, with no luck.


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## jtakeman (Nov 19, 2010)

Rick a Pellets said:
			
		

> hey could someone help me out? I have a Breckwell p23 stove, C-E-401, 2006 model. I cant seem to get the on/off mode to work at all. It wont even do any thing after plugging in. The high low setting will run but wont work correctly. It just lights up and runs on the low setting. Guy from breckwell told me it sounded like a bad controller. So I fell for it and bought a new version A-E-401. And it does the same thing for $300 shipped to the house. I should add that it runs fine in the manual mode. even changed the themostat to see if that would affect it, with no luck.



Sounds like the board is fine. You probably have a broken wire going to the thermostat. 

Shutdown and unplug the stove. Put a piece of wire to jump the thermostat one the control board. Plug in the stove and try it again. If the board works fine. The its the stat wire.


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## Rick a Pellets (Nov 20, 2010)

That was the second thing I tried with no luck.


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## jtakeman (Nov 20, 2010)

Very very odd! The odds of both boards being bad are a possibility but, unlikely. When you jumped out the thermostat terminals, Did you use a short piece or bare wire? Heck a paper clip would do.


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## Pellet-AGP (Jan 6, 2014)

Question on the CE401 controller. I have a Breckwell P23 and have replaced controller once.  Now, 2 years later, I cannot get the convector blower to stop running, even with the stove completely cooled down.  I have to unplug the stove to turn this blower off.  I called local dealer who thinks the controller is bad.  Reading all sorts of posts bout electrical problems, o nt sure if there is another issue at play here.


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## Billymac (Jan 6, 2014)

If your blower does not go out it might be the High temp thermodisk stuck thinking that the stove is still hot 60T21 T-Stat is stuck on


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## jtakeman (Jan 6, 2014)

Pellet-AGP said:


> Question on the CE401 controller. I have a Breckwell P23 and have replaced controller once.  Now, 2 years later, I cannot get the convector blower to stop running, even with the stove completely cooled down.  I have to unplug the stove to turn this blower off.  I called local dealer who thinks the controller is bad.  Reading all sorts of posts bout electrical problems, o nt sure if there is another issue at play here.



With you stove off -cool and unplugged check the POF switch with an ohm meter. Switch should be open. If it isn't change it. 

If it is? Its most likely the triac for the convection blower is stuck on and sending power to the blower when its not supposed to. Stuck and broken triac's are very common with this controller. The triac can be changed if you can solder.


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## Pellet-AGP (Jan 7, 2014)

Thanks for these two sound tips.  Do you know the specs for the Triac on the control board?


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## jtakeman (Jan 11, 2014)

I have CRS really bad and don't remember the numbers. Searching the forum I found this post. Triac number T835-600G

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/breckwell-big-e-blowers-wont-shut-off.72210/#post-910940

I'd check the number on the triac just to be sure though. Each board revision could have a different triac and you want the exact replacement or equivalent cross for it. Hope it helps!

If you need to replace the board. Have a look at this thread.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/an-iprovement-for-all-breckwell-owners.104468/#post-1354269


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## Pellet-AGP (Jan 11, 2014)

jtakeman said:


> I have CRS really bad and don't remember the numbers. Searching the forum I found this post. Triac number T835-600G
> 
> https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/breckwell-big-e-blowers-wont-shut-off.72210/#post-910940
> 
> ...


Thank you!


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## bonesy (Jan 13, 2014)

For those with controller issues, I found a person on ebay who repairs them, check item #190799433103


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