# Etched Wood Stove Glass



## REDTAIL (Feb 1, 2012)

I've got a SCAN 60 with the big front glass in the door.  It develops a semi-permanent grayish/whiteish smoke film
no matter what kind of wood I burn.  I've used SpeedyWhite to get the black soot off, but this film is more of a 
permanent type of thing; SpeedyWhite, 3 different grits of rubbing compound, simple green, CLR, Rutland, oven cleaner will not get it off.

Has anyone solved this problem?


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## corey21 (Feb 1, 2012)

I use paper towel dipped in hot water then dipped in wood ash. Then i take clean damp paper towel and  go over it after i finish.


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## firefighterjake (Feb 1, 2012)

H2O-dampened sheet of newspaper . . . that is all. 

Welcome to the forum by the way Redtail.


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## REDTAIL (Feb 1, 2012)

corey21 said:
			
		

> I use paper towel dipped in hot water then dipped in wood ash. Then i take clean damp paper towel and  go over it after i finish.



I've heard of folks doing that.  But, if Speedy White won't make a dent in this stuff, I doubt that this method will work in my
case...  However, I'll try it tomorrow.  Note, this isn't the black soot that comes off fairly easily; this is more of a permanent
grayish film that blocks visibility through the glass.  It may be particular to this stove model, I'm not sure...


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## Adios Pantalones (Feb 1, 2012)

paper towel, water, that's it.

edit: a permanent white film- either that's something about how the glass was made, or maybe it's scratched/etched?  My white film comes off easy peasey


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## corey21 (Feb 1, 2012)

I agree the glass may be made like that.


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## REDTAIL (Feb 1, 2012)

firefighterjake said:
			
		

> H2O-dampened sheet of newspaper . . . that is all.
> 
> Welcome to the forum by the way Redtail.



Thanks Jake!  It's a great forum.  I know, for sure, that wet newspaper won't work for me.  This is a 
baked on grayish film, not ordinary black soot.  Although, I do get a little soot normally too.  But, SpeedyWhite
does a great job on the soot.  Lots of other cleaners and probably wet newspaper will work well on soot also...


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## REDTAIL (Feb 1, 2012)

Adios Pantalones said:
			
		

> paper towel, water, that's it.
> 
> edit: a permanent white film- either that's something about how the glass was made, or maybe it's scratched/etched?  My white film comes off easy peasey



Yes.  It might be etched in.  Is there anything that will clean that?


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## madison (Feb 1, 2012)

REDTAIL said:
			
		

> Adios Pantalones said:
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Try Rutland Stove Glass Cleaner, avail. at Tractory supply, home depot etc. It cleans and puts coating on that makes it easy to wipe off future stuff.  I do not work for the company, but bought some the first yr when I had unseasoned wood.


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## DexterDay (Feb 1, 2012)

What were you using to clean it before? (Any ammonia products? Windex?)


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## REDTAIL (Feb 1, 2012)

madison said:
			
		

> REDTAIL said:
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I guess I forgot to add the Rutland cleaners to the list of cleaners that I have already tried.  I have some of that.  It doesn't get
this stuff off, but it does work pretty well for regular soot, etc.  And it does leave a silicone coating that makes future cleaning a
little bit easier, you're right.


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## REDTAIL (Feb 1, 2012)

DexterDay said:
			
		

> What were you using to clean it before? (Any ammonia products? Windex?)



No, no ammonia.  Although, I'm pretty sure Ammonia will not hurt this ceramic glass material.

When I first got the stove, for about the first 6 months or so, I was able to keep the glass perfectly
clean with Sprayway, at first (perfume grade alcohol, no ammonia), which is very mild.  Great product for windows, by the way...
Then later, I used the Rutland (blueish cream stuff), and after about 6 months or so, I started using SpeedyWhite.
The guy at my stove store recommended it...  It worked better than all the other products I had tried, so I statyed with it.

I still use SpeedyWhite, but it doesn't get this superfilm off.  

The only thing that even came close to making a dent in it, is BarKeeper's friend.  Which is a mild oxalic acid.  But I have
to use very hot water and 0000 steel wool with it and scrub for about 15 minutes to make a dent in it...

So, my next thing to try, unless you folks can come with the answer, is to try a heavier concentration of oxalic acid; 
which means mixing my own.  I've got some wood bleach, which is 100%.  So, I'll dilute some and we'll see how that goes...


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## Gunks (Feb 14, 2012)

corey21 said:
			
		

> I use paper towel dipped in hot water then dipped in wood ash. Then i take clean damp paper towel and  go over it after i finish.



I have a Scan 60 also and this method cleans the glass every time.


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## HotCoals (Feb 14, 2012)

Burn some pine real hot with full air..don't put a lot in though.
If that don't work use a razor blade..a new one in one direction only..do not flip the blade..dip in water for lube.
It will work.


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## mossycup (Feb 14, 2012)

I use dampened newspaper dipped in fine ash and follow up with a dampened paper towel to clean up the muddy residue.

If I still have a haze, vinegar on a paper towel seems to cut it pretty well.


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## dwillistein (Feb 14, 2012)

If it is etched you really need to re-polish it.  I've done this with cerium oxide powder (optical polish), water, and a felt bob on a drill.


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## REDTAIL (Feb 14, 2012)

FirewoodMan said:
			
		

> If it is etched you really need to re-polish it.  I've done this with cerium oxide powder (optical polish), water, and a felt bob on a drill.



Cool!   Thanks very much for the tip.  I'll see if I can find some of that.  I just cleaned it today with Oxalic acid and it works pretty well, but the
glass (ceramic) is still kind of blurry and ruff too.  It's kind of like a bathroom window...  I'll try re-polishing.


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## billjustbill (Feb 15, 2012)

REDTAIL said:
			
		

> FirewoodMan said:
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I'm wondering if the glass was installed backwards.  If it is etched to some degree, it's going to catch everything if the rough surface faces the fire.  Is this the only piece of glass it has?


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## BrotherBart (Feb 15, 2012)

Didn't crawl through the whole thread but I use a water wet paper towel once a month when the stove is cooled down before a morning reload.


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## REDTAIL (Feb 15, 2012)

billjustbill said:
			
		

> REDTAIL said:
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Hi Bill,

Wow, I didn't know there was a front and a back to the glass.  Yes, this is the only piece of glass in this stove.  It's a fairly large
piece (14" x 17" approx.) in the front door (Scan 60 woodstove).  Everything was totally assembled when I purchased the stove.  The inside is kind of
blurry or frosty like a bathroom window and it is kind of rough, not smooth like it is on the outside (It was fine when new).  So, I bought some glass polish that was recommended earlier and I have an angle-grinder tool that I used to use to polish my car.  So, I'll use that and see if I can
bring it back.   I wonder if I should flip it around?  If there is a front/back to the glass, then it was probably put in backwards!


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## hoffa (Feb 15, 2012)

SBI makes a glass cleaner, works great.  http://www.amazon.com/SBI-Wood-Burning-Stove-Cleaner-AC07825/dp/B004475ZQO


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## pen (Feb 15, 2012)

Sounds like this glass needs more than a cleaning and is etched.

Also sounds like the OP has a plan.  Redtail, let us know how you make out repolishing and how you do it.

My glass is etched on both sides for some reason.  Top, bottom, and center are fine.  Interested to hear how you make out or if you can bring it back.

Also, I changed the thread title so that it's more specific to your problem and searchable in the future.

pen


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## REDTAIL (Feb 15, 2012)

hoffa said:
			
		

> SBI makes a glass cleaner, works great.  http://www.amazon.com/SBI-Wood-Burning-Stove-Cleaner-AC07825/dp/B004475ZQO



Thanks, I didn't know about this product.  I've been using SpeedyWhite and that works really well for the soot and so forth, but
I think I'm actually beyond cleaning now.  Oxalic acid actually does get most of the etched-in, baked-on gray film, but it's still 
real frosty and not smooth.


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## REDTAIL (Feb 15, 2012)

pen said:
			
		

> Sounds like this glass needs more than a cleaning and is etched.
> 
> Also sounds like the OP has a plan.  Redtail, let us know how you make out repolishing and how you do it.
> 
> ...



Okay, thanks Pen.  It has turned into an "Etching" thread, you're right.   Although, when I started out on this quest, I thought
all I needed was a good cleaner...

It'll be a week before I get the glass polish (I had to order it online), but I'll definitley let you folks know how it works.


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## REDTAIL (Feb 15, 2012)

pen said:
			
		

> Sounds like this glass needs more than a cleaning and is etched.
> 
> Also sounds like the OP has a plan.  Redtail, let us know how you make out repolishing and how you do it.
> 
> ...



Thanks Pen,  I'll let you know how it comes out.  

It'll be a week or so to get the glass polish (ordered online)...  Sorry for the duplication.  There's no delete!


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## begreen (Feb 15, 2012)

I'm wondering if at some point a less than fine abrasive was used on the glass? It sounds like it might be over-cleaned and scratched. If so, the best solution would be to replace the ceramic glass and be careful what is used to clean the glass.


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## REDTAIL (Feb 15, 2012)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> I'm wondering if at some point a less than fine abrasive was used on the glass? It sounds like it might be over-cleaned and scratched. If so, the best solution would be to replace the ceramic glass and be careful what is used to clean the glass.



Not by me, at least not until I started noticing this permanent film developing.   After it got really bad, I tried 3 different grades of rubbing
compound and all sorts of cleaners (see the top post).  

I may replace the ceramic, if this polish doesn't work.  It may have just been a less-than-perfect piece of glass/ceramic to begin with...  Or,
maybe it was flipped around.   I'm going to check with my local ceramic-glass supplier, here in town and ask them if there really is a
front and back to this stuff.


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## billjustbill (Feb 15, 2012)

I have Lopi's "Freedom Bay", and I got the glass etched with the "Ducks and Pond" scene.  

http://www.lopistoves.com/product_guide/detail.aspx?id=218

In the website's Pamplet Info, all they show now is a landscape with a big Buck in the center.  This fireplace insert originally came with a clear glass, so the etched scene was an extra cost and usually at the full factory suggested price....  What some buyers don't realize, is that the dealer will keep the original glass for their Parts Department if you don't know to ask for it....

The etching for Lopi's scene is on the outside, so the glass will usually burn clean with a good hot fire and the light gray wipes away easily as others have said.  After cooling, cleaning of the smooth side of the glass with a 15 minute soaking spray of oven cleaner on the cooled-down glass is quick and easy if you should have Visitors coming....  It is a bit messy if you don't put newspapers under the door while cleaning, but it does get it clean only because the inside glass surface is so smooth.

Maybe a quick email to the Maker of your stove will help you find out if the glass was accidently installed backwards.  To get it "Polished-Out", you would have to remove the glass.  You'd never get it done evenly leaving it installed while the pad and compound is bumping up against the holding tabs and insulation gasket around the glass.    

If you learn it is installed backward, after you hear from the Maker and clean out your stove, I'd call the store you bought from first. Then take the door off and take it back if they won't come back for a free Service Visit.  I'd let them do all the work of changing it around...and request a new glass panel if they can't get it clean.  (If it's a factory error, the vendor will get paid for correcting it.  If it was installed backwards though the carelessness of the vendor, it might be harder to get it replaced.  In either case, be prepared to use your old glass as it' likely they'll have to special order the glass which will take more time...)

Please let the Forum know how it works out.


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## REDTAIL (Feb 15, 2012)

billjustbill said:
			
		

> I have Lopi's "Freedom Bay", and I got the glass etched with the "Ducks and Pond" scene.
> 
> http://www.lopistoves.com/product_guide/detail.aspx?id=218
> 
> ...



Mine's not purposely etched with a nice scene, like yours.  It's on the inside with mine; caused by regular useage.

Well, I'm not going to take the glass off.  I'm going to work on it just like I always do, attached to the stove...  

I have a good place, here in town, that sells replacement ceramic and they should know if there's a front and a back.  I'll
let you know what they say, later today...


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## billjustbill (Feb 15, 2012)

Just out of curiosity, how old is your glass and stove?


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## REDTAIL (Feb 15, 2012)

billjustbill said:
			
		

> Just out of curiosity, how old is your glass and stove?



It's about 2 years old.  I checked with the experts on the glass/ceramic.  It doesn't have a front and a back
side.  Unless you've got a picture etched into it, then the picture would go on the outside.

My glass/ceramic is non-decorated.  So, there's no front/back to it...


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## savageactor7 (Feb 15, 2012)

A slight white haze on the glass can be the remains of hard water. Fortunately we were warned about that and only use bottled water with a paper towel to clean the glass.


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## HotCoals (Feb 15, 2012)

savageactor7 said:
			
		

> A slight white haze on the glass can be the remains of hard water. Fortunately we were warned about that and only use bottled water with a paper towel to clean the glass.


Could be..I never had that haze till I tried the ash water deal.
My water goes through a softener though..but I still think you might be right.
If the glass is still warm that prolly makes it worse.


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## REDTAIL (Feb 23, 2012)

Well I got the cerium oxide (glass polish).  I bought the liquid version.  It's too fine for
this application.  I used it with a 3" electric random orbital (on high-speed) and I tried several different
pads.  My glass polishing pad seemed to work the best.  But, I found that heavy duty
rubbing compound combined with that setup did remove most of the baked on crud and
left me with just a blurry ceramic.  I spent about 30 minutes on it.  But, the cerium oxide
didn't work all that well.  I could see some blurryness dissapearing but it would have
taken many hours to really make a dent in it...   

So, I'll live with it for a while and then probably replace the glass at some point...  The top 25% of the
window is still in good shape, it's the bottom 75% that is blurry and etched...


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## Treacherous (Feb 25, 2012)

Actually it is a bull elk.

My Endeavor has that scene.



			
				billjustbill said:
			
		

> I have Lopi's "Freedom Bay", and I got the glass etched with the "Ducks and Pond" scene.
> 
> http://www.lopistoves.com/product_guide/detail.aspx?id=218
> 
> In the website's Pamplet Info, all they show now is a landscape with a big Buck in the center.  .


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## REDTAIL (Jul 15, 2012)

*UPDATE:*

Well, I finally replaced the glass.  The folks at elitecustomglass.com did a great job
for me and I got a good price.

I've since found out that certain stoves (probably the ones with "airwash") are prone to
etching the glass; just by way of their design.  I'm hoping mine isn't one of them!  But,
time will tell.  The original ceramic started etching on me after only 1 year...

Stay tuned.  I'll post an update again and we'll see if it's stove design or whether it was
something to do with the original ceramic...


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## begreen (Jul 15, 2012)

You might check with Scan tech support and see it this stove uses IR coated glass, some do. If this is Robax IR, the coating is only on one side of the glass.


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## DanCorcoran (Jul 15, 2012)

If you have new glass, I suggest using nothing but moistened paper towel with ash from here on out.  I've used that for many years on both pellet and wood stoves and never had any etching or scratching.


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## REDTAIL (Jul 16, 2012)

begreen said:


> You might check with Scan tech support and see it this stove uses IR coated glass, some do. If this is Robax IR, the coating is only on one side of the glass.


 
That could be.  I'll ask them.  Although, they don't have any tech-support.  You have to pretty much contact
Jotul.  But, Jotul is pretty good at answering back. 

I did see that glass, while doing some research.  But, at the same time,
I also found out that certain stoves are very prone to etching, just by the way their designed...

I'm pretty sure that my replacement glass is not IR coated.  It's EuroKera Pyroceramic.  So, hopefully, it will not etch...


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## REDTAIL (Jul 16, 2012)

DanCorcoran said:


> If you have new glass, I suggest using nothing but moistened paper towel with ash from here on out. I've used that for many years on both pellet and wood stoves and never had any etching or scratching.


 
Thanks.  That sounds like good advice.  I have started the new glass out on the Rutland with silicone, though.  I kind of like
the way it adds a thin layer of silicone, which makes the next cleaning a little bit easier.  It's non-abrasive. 

Only time will tell!


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## begreen (Jul 16, 2012)

REDTAIL said:


> That could be. I'll ask them. Although, they don't have any tech-support. You have to pretty much contact
> Jotul. But, Jotul is pretty good at answering back.
> 
> I did see that glass, while doing some research. But, at the same time,
> ...


 
Sounds good. I hadn't heard of EuroKera before. Looks like they make three versions of their pyroceram product. The regular product is uncoated. Stayclear (Everclear+) is coated.

http://www.eurokera.com/products/heating/heating.html#


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## REDTAIL (Jul 17, 2012)

begreen said:


> Sounds good. I hadn't heard of EuroKera before. Looks like they make three versions of their pyroceram product. The regular product is uncoated. Stayclear (Everclear+) is coated.
> 
> http://www.eurokera.com/products/heating/heating.html#



I put my ohm meter on the old/original piece of glass from Scan. I tested both continuity and ohms on both sides. No current. So, it probably was not coated. But, if it was, I hear the coating is supposed to go on the outside. So, that's something notable.

I sent elitecustomglass another email to ask about the coating. My guess is that it's not coated. But, since I have a fire going this morning (it's chilly out), I can't very well put my meter on it right now! 

*UPDATE:  *The glass company said that I have KeraLite/Pyroceram III, which is uncoated.


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## REDTAIL (Sep 13, 2012)

DanCorcoran said:


> If you have new glass, I suggest using nothing but moistened paper towel with ash from here on out. I've used that for many years on both pellet and wood stoves and never had any etching or scratching.


 
Thanks for this advice Dan.  I've been using your method and it's the very best.  I use a wet sponge, dip it in ashes, cleans off
everything, rinse it out and go over the glass one more time to remove the soot water; then dry it with a towel.  Cleans really well,
doesn't cost any money and it's non-toxic and biodegradeable!


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## Ashful (Sep 13, 2012)

If you've ever owned aluminum window screens, instead of the cheap fiberglass/plastic screens they make today, you may have seen a similar thing when the aluminum oxide begins to plate up on the glass after a few years. Happens fairly rapidly if you leave your screens in year-round. I wonder if something like that could be happening, such as platings from the metal components in the stove or fasteners in your wood (pallets? framing lumber?) plating onto the glass at high temperatures.



REDTAIL said:


> I put my ohm meter on the old/original piece of glass from Scan. I tested both continuity and ohms on both sides. No current. So, it probably was not coated.


 
What would you expect to find with an ohm meter?  Anti-reflective coatings work by transforming ("matching") the wave impedances of two media (namely air to glass), in which you have a high index change, but most are dielectrics / not conductive.


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## velvetfoot (Sep 14, 2012)

Interesting thread.
Can I ask how much the replacement glass was?


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## REDTAIL (Sep 17, 2012)

Joful said:


> If you've ever owned aluminum window screens, instead of the cheap fiberglass/plastic screens they make today, you may have seen a similar thing when the aluminum oxide begins to plate up on the glass after a few years. Happens fairly rapidly if you leave your screens in year-round. I wonder if something like that could be happening, such as platings from the metal components in the stove or fasteners in your wood (pallets? framing lumber?) plating onto the glass at high temperatures.
> 
> 
> 
> What would you expect to find with an ohm meter? Anti-reflective coatings work by transforming ("matching") the wave impedances of two media (namely air to glass), in which you have a high index change, but most are dielectrics / not conductive.


 
I would expect to get a "beep" from my meter, if the glass had an anti-reflective coating on it, because those coatings always
conduct electricity. 

I don't think it had anything to do with "plating."  It was etched somehow; either the "air-wash" feature or cheap ceramic; or a combination of both.   The new ceramic is holding up very well, so far; still looks new when I clean it with ash and water...


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## REDTAIL (Sep 17, 2012)

velvetfoot said:


> Interesting thread.
> Can I ask how much the replacement glass was?


 
It was $170.00 out the door.  My stove has a pretty good size piece of glass in the door.


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## WellSeasoned (Sep 17, 2012)

I have read that if the ceramic gets very dirty, and is left dirty throughout a burn cycle our two, the ceramic can get etched. I had this problem last year when we put sub par wood in, had to leave and turned air way down, just to come home hours and hours later to black glass. Being tired, just reloaded and went to bed. Ceramic was etched on both lower corners. Got dirty there slightly ever since


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