# The Effect of Wood Stove Heat on Paneling?



## soupy1957 (Apr 7, 2013)

The wife and I had undergone construction and renovation in our home a couple of years ago.  One of the additions was a front porch.

The Painter who was sub-Contracted by our Builder, did some painting in the front living room, about which I have posted a thread or two in here because of peeling.

Fast forward to today, and the recent decision the wife and I made to put in ceiling paneling that looks like the "real" tongue-n-groove boards that we had put in, in the rest of the house.

What effect (affect?) if any, would the wood stove have on paneling on the ceiling in the living room? (First off, I recognize that we'd want to let the glue dry fully, before firing up the wood stove.  Thankfully, we are into Spring at this point, and don't "need" the wood stove right now, for the most part.  The paneling will be nailed as well, but even the Builder stated that the nails for the paneling are only there to let the glue set up).

I'm concerned that, even after the glue has fully dried, the paneling COULD warp or sag (in spite of adequate gluing and nailing) from the temps generated from the wood stove.

Real concern?  No, don't worry?  Your thoughts appreciated.........

Soupy1957


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## KaptJaq (Apr 7, 2013)

soupy1957 said:


> that looks like the "real" tongue-n-groove boards


 
Is it wood or some form of composite? If they are not solid all wood panels, do you have or can you get the product data sheet from the manufacturer? Have you ever measured the temperature above the stove? How hot does it get during a high burn? How high is the ceiling?

KaptJaq


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## soupy1957 (Apr 7, 2013)

Room temps get to about 80 to 85º F when the stove is cranking.  I'm sure that "Paneling" is a composite material with available Datasheets, (although we haven't chosen the Paneling we want yet.  Doing that tomorrow.  I'm assuming we would/should choose a high-grade paneling; thus the question).


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## jharkin (Apr 7, 2013)

Any particular reason you want composite vs. Real wood? Wood would probably take the heat better than any plastic and not necessarily more expensive.


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## soupy1957 (Apr 7, 2013)

jharkin said:


> Any particular reason you want composite vs. Real wood? Wood would probably take the heat better than any plastic and not necessarily more expensive.


 

money.........we're running out.

Logic said, after numerous failed attempts to re-paint the ceiling without having more "peeling" taking place, that we needed another alternative.  Believe me.........I would have chosen "real wood" if I could have afforded it!!

-Soupy1957


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## remkel (Apr 7, 2013)

Soupy-

The room may be 85, but the temps at the ceiling directly above the stove will be higher...I have measured up to 135 degrees above my stove, and I suspect there have been higher temps.  The sds (safety data sheet) will tell you the flash point for any material....


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## Nick Mystic (Apr 7, 2013)

Assuming you have the proper clearances to your ceiling for your stove placement I don't think temperature fluctuations will be as much of a problem as changes in humidity. Wood stoves tend to dry out the room unless you make an effort to control humidity with a humidifier or lots of water evaporation containers on top of the stove. If the paneling were to buckle after installation it is most likely going to be due to moisture changes in the wood or composite material the panels are made from.


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## gerry100 (Apr 7, 2013)

You 're not worried about the falshpoint but more the HDT( heat distortion temperature) of the resin holding it together. Composites I'm familiar with use Polyehtylene and wood fiber( think old milk jugs and sawdust) and should stand 135degF without warp.

Warp in plastics is a result of temperature and stress. If the paneling has room to expand thermally that should also prevent warping/bowing. Follow the nailng/gluing instructions that come with the product closely.


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## begreen (Apr 7, 2013)

Make sure your paneling wood is dry at least 3 years before putting it up. 

Seriously, The heat at the ceiling will dry  the paneling out for sure, so get it as dry as possible before putting it up to minimize shrinkage.


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## Hogwildz (Apr 7, 2013)

Composite is prolly less likely to move and warp, then real wood. Real wood expands and contracts much more than composite. I have had ok luck with my tongue and groove pine on the walls & ceiling, but have not stove going tin the addition yet. The doors in there and throughout the house are a different story. The panels always move in the summer and winter, winter contraction of course showing more and the unstained portions of the panels show as they shrink. Looks like trial and error is going to be your tell all.


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## begreen (Apr 7, 2013)

Yes, real wood can and does move. Our white oak floor in front of the stove shows slight shrinkage in the winter when the house is dry and it is under constant heat. Usually about this time of year it starts returning to normal, but maybe not. I just lit up the fire last night. We are getting a cold front coming through.


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## jharkin (Apr 7, 2013)

Most of my experience with plastics is stuff like azek PVC trim. That can expand so much just from the heat of the sun that you have to leave big gaps for it to move. Wood doesn't expand nearly as much. 

Maybe these composite interior materials are not as bad?


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## gerry100 (Apr 7, 2013)

Wood expands by absorbing moisture, plastics absorb much less moisture but do expand with temperature. Polyehtylene with wood filler will have a much lower coefficient of expansion than neat PVC, but a long run of 8-12ft could "grow" enough to cause problems if not installed properly


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## DexterDay (Apr 7, 2013)

Is this a T1-11 type paneling?  If so, it will likely warp. My wall is just over 36" from my 30-NC and after 2 seasons has really done a number on it.   

The ceiling is much higher, so if its a thicker stronger material?  Than there should be no problems. 

Here is a pic of wall. We will be tearing it out this Summer and opening up the basement and finishing most of it...


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## soupy1957 (Apr 8, 2013)

remkel said:


> Soupy-
> 
> The room may be 85, but the temps at the ceiling directly above the stove will be higher...I have measured up to 135 degrees above my stove, and I suspect there have been higher temps. The sds (safety data sheet) will tell you the flash point for any material....


 
correct on both counts

-Soupy1957


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## soupy1957 (Apr 8, 2013)

Nick Mystic said:


> Assuming you have the proper clearances to your ceiling for your stove placement I don't think temperature fluctuations will be as much of a problem as changes in humidity. Wood stoves tend to dry out the room unless you make an effort to control humidity with a humidifier or lots of water evaporation containers on top of the stove. If the paneling were to buckle after installation it is most likely going to be due to moisture changes in the wood or composite material the panels are made from.


 
Proper clearances exist in our application, yes. We use an ornate cast Iron container on the stove, for moisture, yes.
I'm of the opinion currently, that even the "best" paneling product, COULD compromise.  Just trying to figure out if it's likely or not, and what will give first........the glue, or the nails.

-Soupy1957


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## soupy1957 (Apr 8, 2013)

gerry100 said:


> You 're not worried about the falshpoint but more the HDT( heat distortion temperature) of the resin holding it together. Composites I'm familiar with use Polyehtylene and wood fiber( think old milk jugs and sawdust) and should stand 135degF without warp.
> 
> Warp in plastics is a result of temperature and stress. If the paneling has room to expand thermally that should also prevent warping/bowing. Follow the nailng/gluing instructions that come with the product closely.


 
THAT gives some measure of comfort.  Appreciate it.  The paneling is being installed by a "Professional" so.........I'll hold THEM to the fire, if it warps.

-Soupy1957


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## soupy1957 (Apr 8, 2013)

DexterDay said:


> Is this a T1-11 type paneling? If so, it will likely warp. My wall is just over 36" from my 30-NC and after 2 seasons has really done a number on it.
> 
> The ceiling is much higher, so if its a thicker stronger material? Than there should be no problems.
> 
> ...


 
The Paneling has not been chosen yet.  We are going down today to our local supplier for that purpose.  Please advise (I'm thinking "thicker" is better, albeit more costly of course) what thickness of Paneling is going to be the best choice for a ceiling application, in a room with a wood stove.

-Soupy1957


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## woodgeek (Apr 8, 2013)

I agree with Jags that a composite might be more stable in this application than real wood.  I am only familiar with a plastic impregnated wood veneer on composite backing product, from the Despot, that was rated to survive getting wet.  That is, my buddy put it on a basement slab.  That stuff is not going to shrink and expand with moisture, but snaps together to form a floating floor (no glue).  I would if possible try to leave a little gapping, so I would avoid products that are designed to 'snap together' and float.


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## soupy1957 (Apr 8, 2013)

woodgeek said:


> I agree with Jags that a composite might be more stable in this application than real wood. I am only familiar with a plastic impregnated wood veneer on composite backing product, from the Despot, that was rated to survive getting wet. That is, my buddy put it on a basement slab. That stuff is not going to shrink and expand with moisture, but snaps together to form a floating floor (no glue). I would if possible try to leave a little gapping, so I would avoid products that are designed to 'snap together' and float.


 

If what I'm hearing is what we call a "suspended ceiling" .........I'd imagine the cost to be higher than we'd be able to go, but I'm not sure about that.  Materials for the Paneling choice, will probably run us a couple of thousand dollars (best guess til later this morning).

-Soupy1957


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## soupy1957 (Apr 8, 2013)

begreen said:


> Make sure your paneling wood is dry at least 3 years before putting it up.


 
When looking at the Paneling in the store, how can I verify the age of the Paneling? I'm certain I can't convince the wife to store the Paneling for 3 years before doing the build. I'm sure there are most likely "Manufacturing Dates" on the product, but I don't know if I will be able to translate them. I'd also doubt that product would be 3 years on the shelves from manufacture to sale, unless they were inferior or undesirable in some way.

Also, let's talk thickness.........obviously the thicker/the heavier, but aside from the weight issue, I'd think "thicker" would mean less warpage potential, right?  What are the typical thicknesses of Paneling these days?

It's not just the Paneling I'm concerned with in this application. She also wants to put up two 16 foot runs of those foam "fake" Beams, not only for looks, but apparently they have a functional value, as they hide the seams between the Panels..........they TOO would have to have integrity in a hot room, without meltdown.

-Soupy1957


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## ironpony (Apr 8, 2013)

wood product more than likely is going to have some warpage, shrinkage, movement, to it. I have alot of wood in my house, floors, railings etc. they all shrink in the winter and close up in the spring on.


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## woodgeek (Apr 8, 2013)

One bad coat of paint (peeling) is hard to fix, everything afterwards peels.   Could re-drywall for $1-2/sq ft, and get a decent painter to prime and paint.
Or....looks like tin ceiling tiles cost $4 a sq ft for materials, install should go fast/cheap.  Won't warp. 

At any rate, if your wood/composite solution is a lot more than these ideas....might want to pause.


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## soupy1957 (Apr 8, 2013)

woodgeek said:


> One bad coat of paint (peeling) is hard to fix, everything afterwards peels. Could re-drywall for $1-2/sq ft, and get a decent painter to prime and paint.
> Or....looks like tin ceiling tiles cost $4 a sq ft for materials, install should go fast/cheap. Won't warp.
> 
> At any rate, if your wood/composite solution is a lot more than these ideas....might want to pause.


 

Materials: $500.00 for everything.......paneling, nails, adhesive, faux beams, trim, shipping.

-Soupy1957


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## begreen (Apr 8, 2013)

Before doing anything, have you nailed down exactly what the source of the peeling paint is? Is this condensation caused?  If the source of the problem is not addressed, the paneling could have similar or worse issues.


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## soupy1957 (Apr 8, 2013)

begreen said:


> Before doing anything, have you nailed down exactly what the source of the peeling paint is? Is this condensation caused?  If the source of the problem is not addressed, the paneling could have similar or worse issues.



Understand the logic of this advice. Both the Contractor and us agree at least that the old paint and primer is the culprit, the Contractor is not willing to say that the Sub-Contracted Painter should have stripped the old Paint and Primer first, before applying a new coat, which is our position.  

That being said, there is agreement that it is not a mold issue, or something like that.  We both agree that there is enough adequate ventilation to the attic space above that portion of the house.  

That being the case, that we have some level of agreement, the Contractor has agreed to provide the "Labor" at no cost to us, in good faith; and we, in turn, agreed to absorb the cost of the materials.

Care was taken today, to ensure that the Paneling and adhesive chosen (and the Faux Beam material too, for that matter,  are made of the kind of materials that will not react adversely to temps and dryness as would be typical with a wood stove application.

-Soupy1957


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## woodgeek (Apr 8, 2013)

If you want wood, go for it.  If you want cheap, sanding the bad paint off and repainting might be cheaper?


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## soupy1957 (Apr 9, 2013)

woodgeek said:


> If you want wood, go for it. If you want cheap, sanding the bad paint off and repainting might be cheaper?


 
This ("sanding the bad paint off") was what we hoped the Contractor would have done.  "We" believe that this should have been done from the beginning (poor setup by the Sub-Contractor, in our humble opinion). However, that said, we move on with the next solution, to avoid all that, and "fix" the issue.

-Soupy1957


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## begreen (Apr 14, 2013)

The paint issue is not normal and sounds like the tip of an iceberg. If there is cold air leaking into the joist cavity above the ceiling this will not fix the situation. But maybe some contaminant got into the original paint and that is the issue. I defer to eyeballs on site.


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## soupy1957 (Apr 27, 2013)

begreen said:


> If there is cold air leaking into the joist cavity above the ceiling this will not fix the situation..


 
Well, this is a crawlspace after all.  No rooms above the porch.  I recall when the roof over the front porch was being constructed, that they left a portion of the old roof up there. in back of, and within the new roof extension.  All the materials are "on site" at this point, and it looks like the Contractor will be coming at the beginning of May (next weekend).  Let's HOPE that this "fix" is sufficient. (I hope it LOOKS nice, too!  Never put Paneling on a ceiling before).  The Faux Beams made to look hand cut are a nice touch, too!

-Soupy1957


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## soupy1957 (Jun 8, 2013)

Final outcome (pic link). I think it looks GREAT!!
-Soupy1957




http://s411.photobucket.com/user/Soupy1957/media/changes4_zps1c52f0a2.jpg.html?sort=3&o=3


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## fishingpol (Jun 10, 2013)

That looks real nice.  Pretty good looking install.


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## soupy1957 (Jun 10, 2013)

Let's hope it holds up!

-Soupy1957


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## ScotO (Jun 12, 2013)

soupy1957 said:


> Let's hope it holds up!
> 
> -Soupy1957


I think that turned out pretty nice, Soupy!  Are the beams faux as well?  Looks like a very cozy room there, my friend!  I think you'll be fine as far as holding up.  Other members already pointed out that this man-made paneling will not expand/contract as much as a natural material would......

And I highly doubt that the temps in that room will exceed a level that will warp or distort that material.  As far as the paint peeling, my brother had a similar problem.  He bought a home and wanted to have the ceilings 'swirled', a buddy of mine is a drywaller and does phenominal ceiling decorations.  He swirled the ceilings on my brother's place and it all peeled off within hours!  After much investigation we narrowed it down to either a cleaner that was used by the previous homeowner or more likely the fact that that PO used a kerosene heater for many years in the home (back in the 80's), probably residue from the kerosene on the ceilings....

A heavy sanding, epoxy primer and re-application of the mud for swirling, and it held up fine after that.  It was a PITA to get it done though.  Would've been easier just to hang new drywall over the old ceiling and start from scratch!!


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## Highbeam (Jun 13, 2013)

That looks great.


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