# New roofing question, comments, discussion about anything thread.



## Hogwildz (Sep 22, 2007)

Ok guys, post all your roof questions in this thread. It matters not what type of roof, its ok to ask, and answer in here.
Feel free to talk about any type of roof, ask any type of roof questions, or anything you else you want to.
Learning about anything you have questions on, is a GOOD thing. So you will not be frowned upon for asking any roof  or none roof specific questions in this thread.

I promise not to get all upset   Someone dial WHIIIIIINE 11 AND CALL ME A WHAMMMMMBULANCE  MUAHAHAHAHA


I just got done fixing the flashing around the chimney outside. Seems the previous homeowner did NOT realize that muck (roof cement) was not intended for a permanent solution. Seems he decided not to cut a reglet for the counter flashing around the chimney at the roof line. Well the muck finally let loose and the water from the upper roof dumped off and into the gap between the block & the flashing. Leaking onto my newly installed T&G;pine ceiling. Luckily it stayed at the corner and no stains.
I temp sealed it with urethane until I get to cutting the reglet.

Wow, the freedom to talk about what I want........................... I am freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee


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## keyman512us (Sep 22, 2007)

Hogwildz said:
			
		

> Seems the previous homeowner did NOT realize that muck (roof cement) was not intended for a permanent solution.
> 
> Wow, the freedom to talk about what I want........................... I am freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee



Hog...C'mon...lol

'Karnac' (aka muck...aka 'liquid roofing in a can) Is not a permanent solution??? Say it ain't so! lol 

Nothing like a "big trowel on job" to get a good laugh (but only if it's not your own roof).


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## njtomatoguy (Sep 22, 2007)

previous owners here did the same thing- flat roof has silver coating, but more black goo than silver. I should have been cautious when they left me the bucket in the shed. -

So -  Flat roof over utility/laundry rooms. What is the right way to fix it. More silver ? Rolled roofing? I guess it's flat rolls, but they use a torch. Both neighbor on side of me and behind me had the one that needed a torch. 
Thanks
Bob


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## precaud (Sep 22, 2007)

OK, I'll bite. Big roof on the garage/storage building, SBS Brai torchdown, New Mexico climate. Major blisters/wrinkles have developed in areas. I'm cutting them, removing the buckled asphalt layers underneath making it smooth, then cementing it back down. Then I'll coat the whole thing with Henry 107 asphalt emulsion and then white acrylic.

The quiestion is about the cementing down. When I started, I was 3 coursing using roofing cement (Henry 505). But that stuff has to age 30 days or more before it can be coated. So I tried using the 107 emulsion with polyester mesh. It's dry and ready to coat in less than 2 days. So far I'm impressed.

Whadya think?


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## keyman512us (Sep 22, 2007)

njtomatoguy said:
			
		

> previous owners here did the same thing- flat roof has silver coating, but more black goo than silver. I should have been cautious when they left me the bucket in the shed. -
> 
> So -  Flat roof over utility/laundry rooms. What is the right way to fix it. More silver ? Rolled roofing? I guess it's flat rolls, but they use a torch. Both neighbor on side of me and behind me had the one that needed a torch.
> Thanks
> Bob



The "right way" IMHO would be to "rip it all out", lay down some good A-C rated 1/4"(at least) laun plywood to make a nice flat surface...put new metal drip edge all the way around and lay an 030." EPDM ('rubber') roof...

What would you say Hog???


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## keyman512us (Sep 22, 2007)

precaud said:
			
		

> OK, I'll bite. Big roof on the garage/storage building, SBS Brai torchdown, New Mexico climate. Major blisters/wrinkles have developed in areas. I'm cutting them, removing the buckled asphalt layers underneath making it smooth, then cementing it back down. Then I'll coat the whole thing with Henry 107 asphalt emulsion and then white acrylic.
> 
> The quiestion is about the cementing down. When I started, I was 3 coursing using roofing cement (Henry 505). But that stuff has to age 30 days or more before it can be coated. So I tried using the 107 emulsion with polyester mesh. It's dry and ready to coat in less than 2 days. So far I'm impressed.
> 
> Whadya think?



...If it works for you, it works for me.

When I was "out west" (Colorado) I had seen my fair share of roofing work. Probably "old school" with some of the new stuff today but I did quite a bit of work on Tremco White Hypalon. Somewhat pricey and it can be a PITA but it worked quite well.

Given the amount of sun and heat roofs in your locale get coupled with large swings in temperature during the year....I think asphalt roofing products will go only so far.... Good Luck!


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## Hogwildz (Sep 22, 2007)

njtomatoguy said:
			
		

> previous owners here did the same thing- flat roof has silver coating, but more black goo than silver. I should have been cautious when they left me the bucket in the shed. -
> 
> So -  Flat roof over utility/laundry rooms. What is the right way to fix it. More silver ? Rolled roofing? I guess it's flat rolls, but they use a torch. Both neighbor on side of me and behind me had the one that needed a torch.
> Thanks
> Bob



Roll roofing is basically a big roll of similar material to an asphalt shingle. JUNK, don't waste your time or money.
Torch down roofing, is technically called Modified Bitumen (spelling may be off). Decent stuff. Lasts about 10 years, sometimes longer if maintained. Also makes a big difference if the installer know what they are doing as far as install goes. Too hot, too much bleed will means its now thinner and lost some strength. Not heated enough and makes for poor seams, and potential for them to open up. Or there may be small fishmouths or gaps from not enough heat. It takes a while to get the hang of just how hot is enough but not too much. The flashings are done a few different ways, but I always double wrapped them. Heating these is same as roof, too hot and they wuill crack & leak eventually. Not enough, and its not sealed properly from the start, again eventually leaking.

I'd say middle ground or moderate on the maintenance needs. The silver stuff is Aluminum coating. Theres both fibered & non fibered. Just as they sound. One is more silver liquid, the other same but with fibers. The fibered lasts longer. If you see it starting to fade or actually disappear showing the black roof underneath. Time to coat again. Can use a roller or brush. Some have their own preferences and some swear brushing is better. Ive done both, speed wise, an 18" roller works real fast.

Roof cement (Muck) if used with the mesh tape made to go with it, will last longer then just slapping the muck onto the surface & troweling out.
On some commercial roof applications, muck & tape is spec'd. Usually drip edge metal, flashing on /ac or mechanical units etc. 
I think and laugh cause I remember doing some big schools & government buildings with literally miles of edge metal. Troweling that is long, tedious and hand cramps after about a few hundred feet. We discoverd one day if ya just shoved yer hand in the 5 gallon can & cupped a big globbing hunk of muck, it was easier to spread & went further LOL. Of course having black hands sucked. Only thing on jog to clean it with was gasoline. Thinking back, not the brightest thing as far as exposure to chemicals, bu6 it worked well. Then I figured, hmmmm how bout dish washing gloves. Those good elbow length ones worked great.
Most roofers just have a knack of experimenting & becoming "creative" when trying to speed things along or make a process easier.  I won't say they are all the healthiest inventions or procedures. But back then, it got the job done, especially a very tiresome & unmotivating process or procedure.

You might also have a old school tar roof. Ive done many, had a love hate feeling towards them. Good roofs, been put down for years. Again. good amount of maintenance, and suck to put down in summer. Messy as all hell. And guaranteed to get at very least a few splash burns. Old schoolers used to felt & tar the field, ad then muck the walls. I used tape as wide as 36" before. Not my favorite, but the old boy wanted it that way on jobs he sold. So be it.

Ok, the proper way to fix modified (torch down) is with more modified, or modified patches. You can muck & tape. Might last a few years. Keep it aluminum coated . Check coating once a year, go over roof seams & flashings about 2x a year. Spring & fall. Not a DIY project if patching with modified. Some will disagree, but if you use the proper torch ( anywhere from 50,000 to 100,000 BTU's) and hit a pin hole in the deck, edge metal etc. You might just be calling the fire co.
I still have my old torches, heck I have all my old roofing tools. I had, might still have a double head, man that thing is a flame thrower. Small holes, you can prolly get away with muck & TAPE, and coat. But proper fix is patch.
Is your roof leaking? Have you gone up & cleaned debris, leaves etc off? If you can take some photos & a couple close ups of flashing & seams and I might be able to tell you what you have.


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## Hogwildz (Sep 22, 2007)

keyman512us said:
			
		

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I hate Karnac LMAO, too f'in thick, not as trowel friendly. 
It was the solution for many a west & north Philly  "get in quick, slap it down & get the hell out before dark" row home repairs.


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## Hogwildz (Sep 22, 2007)

keyman512us said:
			
		

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Keyman said it, modified in a warm climate is just always soft and the heat out there is just too much for it in my opinion. Was the roof kept coated with aluminum coating? Kepping it coated and free of debri can really extend the life. Putting EPDM  (rubber) down is the way to go, but not cheap. With some guidance it can be done DIY. But its not cheap as I said. Alot of supply houses won't even sell it to you unless your certified to install. Theres always one or two th will sell it to anyone though.
I'll reply separately as to yer patching & repairs.


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## Hogwildz (Sep 22, 2007)

precaud said:
			
		

> OK, I'll bite. Big roof on the garage/storage building, SBS Brai torchdown, New Mexico climate. Major blisters/wrinkles have developed in areas. I'm cutting them, removing the buckled asphalt layers underneath making it smooth, then cementing it back down. Then I'll coat the whole thing with Henry 107 asphalt emulsion and then white acrylic.
> 
> The quiestion is about the cementing down. When I started, I was 3 coursing using roofing cement (Henry 505). But that stuff has to age 30 days or more before it can be coated. So I tried using the 107 emulsion with polyester mesh. It's dry and ready to coat in less than 2 days. So far I'm impressed.
> 
> Whadya think?



Some photos would be helpful. When you cut the blisters, was there water or moisture underneath? Does the roof have like a 1/2" fiberboard underneath the roofing?
When you cut it, if cut to the decking (what is the decking material, steel corrugated?) you should find in this order. The torch down top ply, a gritty "base" sheet underneath which is usually screwed down with screws & metal plates, or if over wood, cap nailed down. then usually a 1/2" of fiberboard insulation. then the decking.
SBS is a decent brand btw. Is the SBS smooth & black? or  White or colored granulars on top? The problem is in the heat out there, the SBS expands & contracts, which causes alot of wrinkles. If not properly based. insulated, and fastened etc. If the blisters aren't leaking, I personally would leave them alone. Your cutting holes in an otherwise tight roof. The cement patches will only last so long. The wrinkles will last longer. Unless they are showing signs of severe open cracking.
Make sure the acrylic is spec'd for modified bitumen, or else it will peel, flake let moisture between it & the modified and just compound problems. 
If already coated in the white acrylic, then don't bother aluminum coating, the two don't mix. Just keep it coated well with what you have on there now.
Honestly, in roofing industry, one does not have 30 days to wait for a repair to be completed. 
Heres what I would do if, cutting blisters out.
Cut down to deck, apply roof cement to the deck surface, save what you cut out roofing, insulation  etc., not super thick, but enough to make sure the perimeter of the cut & the deck surface was one layer of cement, and that it is sealing the perimeter of the cut. Then take the pc. of insulation you cut out if any, set that same way it came out into the layer of muck you just applied, some muck should ooze out the sides all the way around, press it down in good. If there is base sheet, leave that pc
 out of the patch. Cement the top of the insulation you just out back in, again cover completely and the perimeter around the cut sides. Now is when I would torch down a new patch. But if cementing, fill the remainder of the hole with muck. A bit more than level with the roof surface. Then cover the entire hole and about 4"-6" of the roof surface around the perimeter of the hole. So you prolly now have the hole filled in and a round or square etc spot of muck over that area. Now no blister, no hole, just a spot of muck. Take your mesh tape and cover the hole extending the tape the 4"-6" beyond the holes sides onto the existing roof surface, If the tape does not cover the hole in one shot. Start at one side laying tape on, and each next pc of tape, overlap the previous one an inch or so. until the tape has now formed one big mesh patch over the area. Then with your trowel, press the tape in by slightly pressing and sliding trowel over length of the tape. Apply your top coat of muck over tape. going another 2"-3" past the tape edge. smooth out with trowel. Don't go too thick on top, it will only crack if too thick. Say About 1/4" to 3/8" layer of muck over tape. Not an exact science, just use your best judgment. Now if, coating with acrylic, yes now wait until muck has cured. Whatever the can says.
One note. By asphalt emulsion I am thinking your talking bout the black roof coating. If your coating over the patch with the white acrylic, I would skip the black roof coating & apply the white coating directly over the much when cured. Of course if the manufacturers can specifies the the roof emulsion over the muck & under the white acrylic, then do that. I never have. Your basically putting two roof coatings on, and I am not sure that the white acrylic will jive with the black emulsion so well.
The emulsion usually never really hardens, and th acrylic I would think would not adhere great, and harden as the coating underneath doesn't. I have seen this, and the acrylic basically cracks and flakes off due to the black roof coating underneath not hardening., and giving the acrylic a solid surface to harden and bond to.
Muck if too thick also takes a long time to harden, but it will skim on top. I'd let it cure good and not go too thick. I have aluminum coated over fresh muck. it can be done, but the silver coat will crack and flake off in a few months to a year. You have a soft layer, with a hard layer on top, the hard layer loses cause not adhered to the surface below. Personally cost wise. I'd aluma coat, and go back after a few months, check and touch up. Then touch up as needed. I am pretty sure the aluma coat is less expensive as the acrylic.
I hope i haven't made it more confusing. If I did, sorry, let me know and I'll try and explain better and simpler. I confuse myself while thinking, trying to spell & type all at the same time  Ge some photos if ya can, I'm curious to see this roof. and a couple close ups of the blisters, and if possible a shot or 2 of the open cuts, when/if ya get a chance.


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## Hogwildz (Sep 22, 2007)

keyman512us said:
			
		

> precaud said:
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Agreed, Hypalon was made for out west & the hot climates. Works great at start, the stuff we used failed after time. I had mistaken his TPO roof for Hypalon. Which I think is in the Hypalon family chemical wise, but improved. We used to use, hmmm whos was it.... E.P Henry, the stuff sucked Could not reactivate to perform any repairs, basically everything was mega caulked with that runny EP Henry Hypalon caulk they had us put lil squirt bottles. The whole roof was a joke. This was on a Naval Air Development Base here in PA. Alot like modified in the way that, heat too much, toastt, not heat enough, no seal. Caulk, caulk, caulk LOL. We had a big heat welding machine, was so cumbersome, was easier to just use the hand welders. Needless to say, we had the rep out, and even he could not reactivate the Hypalon at reseal & repair. He told us, caulk it. A-hole I went back a couple years later & the Hypalon actually sun rotted & cracked. Needless to say EP Henry wasn't making it much longer I believe.
We went full force with EPDM & Modified after that. Had a good estimator who would talk the architects into what they thought they wanted used & spec;s (what we wanted to install). Is Hypalon even around anymore? They also came out with the white EPDM years back, less hot on the hands in summer . Hard to keep white LOL, but rubber rocks for commercial application.


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## keyman512us (Sep 22, 2007)

Hogwildz said:
			
		

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Well from my own experience with Hypalon...not all is created equal. 

Tremco Hypalon was about the best IMHO. But it was 'finicky' to say the least. We had one roof to maintain (mechanicaly fastened...at the seams...and 'un-ballasted'..WTF were they thinking right??)... but it was a rather large roof. The particular building, at one time was the 3rd largest modular office building in the world. It was made from 124 'trailers' bolted together. (it had another 88 trailers originally but were removed a few years previously). Quite an accomplishment but scarry as all h^ll. I don't know what was worse...having to work in the building or up on the roof. Either way..if it ever caught fire it would have gone up quick. The deck was held up by wood truss (27" O.C. couldn't figure that one out) and only had a 3/8" plywood deck

Rotted decking was easy to find. Step on it hear the plywood "shatter" beneath your feet and pray like h^ll the Tremco hypalon held you up...thankfully it always did! 

We had the Tremco rep out to "show us how it's done". He was a "Crusty old dude" from Ohio that smoked three packs a day and had been doing roofing for over 40 years. He showed us everything we needed to know in about 3 hours. He did a few parapet repairs, HVAC curbs, 'flashed' a few roof drains and showed us how to do "Open heart surgery deck repairs with an H cut". All along the way we shook our heads and nodded in agreement...if base safety had walked on the job we would have all been up on charges So we knew "how to do it" and then figured out "how we could do it safely" so as not to get in "hot water".

At the end of the first day he shook his head and laughed "I never thought I would see such a 'mickey mouse' (original)install of our product...especially on a high visibility USAF base...you boys have a lot of work ahead of ya'...either that or somebody better get a s^it load of umbrellas for the folks in the building".

I loved being "on call" on rainy weekends. Get called out for a "bad leak at Bldg 608". Drive out to the base in the pouring rain to "fix" the roof...well at least until Monday morning. How??? "The handyman's secret weapon...Duct Tape"


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## keyman512us (Sep 22, 2007)

"Duct Tape"...a roofers' best friend (Continued)

So back to the Hypalon...and how to fix it in "an emergency". Luckily my paycheck wasn't signed by "A for profit orginization". Being a 2X0 in the USAF we had "quite the large lee-way". We got creative to say the least.

On this particular roof...the mechanically held seams would blow apart all to frequently. The 'strips' were 5 feet wide with a six inch lap strip (should have been at least 8" per manuf. spec.) Going on that roof on a rainy windy day seeing the sheets lifted off the deck looked like a white ocean of waves. Add in that it was slippery as all h^ll... a fun way to earn your $$$. We learned as we went along. "The Boys" quickly got a game plan together. All of us came close to "losing a stripe or two" more than once. Being an enlisted man telling a major or colonel "They needed a 'window-ectomy (so they could see where they were going with their head up their backside)"..wasn't always the best career move...but it was done. We put it in no certain terms...you are either with us or against us. You want the roof fixed??? We get the final say...and we do it how we want...otherwise buy the inhabitants umbrellas.

So up on the roof looking at six feet of seam "blown apart"??? Roll your "tool kit" out from the corner and get to work! We built a special "dolly" for leaks. Broom, squeegee and sandbags, rolls of duct tape, and dry rags, all at the ready. Put down some sand bags (burlap ones to suck up the water...plastic to 'ballast' the membrane) and shoot some fastener disks down..cut clean and prep the area...roll out a 'temporary' lap seal and duct tape it in place. As a final touch...put a half dozen 28" traffic cones around the perimeter (so the base commander could look out his window Monday morning and spot the leak) and it was Miller time!

The Tremco Hypalon was a good roof..if it was done right. We bought pallets of 5 gallon buckets of adhesive and anything we fixed got totally adhered..the way the manufacturer spec'd. Buying tens of thousands of $$$ worth of roofing materials...no problem!

The hardest part??? Getting base contracting to "approve" the purchase of...get this 'Spic-and-Span" detergent. "We have tons of soap available right in supply...we can't authorize buying spic and span". Had to fight it. "You got millions of dollars worth of equipment and the backbone of national defense in peril...and we can't buy a $3 box of detergent to protect it??" We won though. We had to do a ton of paperwork but it all boiled down to the manufacturer requiring the initial cleaning to be done with Spic-n-Span to prep the membrane.

Yup Tremco...First clean it with a spic and span solution to remove any dirt...let it dry...wipe it down with straight Zylene..let that dry...and you can put down the adhesive just like with EPDM.

Lap Sealant(Tremco produced)...We choose Bronze colored (easier to distinguish repaired areas). 3/4" wide bead and "tooled" into place with your finger...the soapy (spic and span water) works like a charm. Mundane and tedious as all hell but it worked. We all got some good sun tans every summer.

The bronze color??? Made the roof look like frankenstein railroad track scars...but hey...all the more incentive for the powers to be to argue amongst themselves why they should build a real building.

I laugh everytime I think of that building and that roof. It was a white elephant to say the least. My employer??? The USAF has some of the most beautifull, high tech, fancy expensive planes in the world...the roofs over their buildings I can't be so enthusiastic about though.

You think constructing/fixing a 'scupper' on a roof is fun??? Try making a roof drain system out of  4" toilet closet flanges...then hang 300 feet of 4" PVC from #12 AWG THHN electricians wire...over the heads of folks learning 'how to fly sats'...all the while being told "We got no money to fix that roof...just do what you can".

...The next time we had to find the roof leaks??? We plugged the drains ran a fire hose to the fire hydrant in front of the building and went to lunch. We sure did find them leaks in a hurry though!

I look back and smile though. Knowing I did my part "protecting my country". If the folks at their desks could have seen the ducks swimming around in the 'pools on the roof' when we first went up there it woould have been priceless! :ahhh: 

...I wish I could have taken pictures. :lol:


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## Hogwildz (Sep 22, 2007)

If its good enough for Nascar, its good enough for roofing


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## keyman512us (Sep 22, 2007)

Hogwildz said:
			
		

> If its good enough for Nascar, its good enough for roofing



"Hey we just want to race the roofers' dolly..." ;-P


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## keyman512us (Sep 22, 2007)

That roof threw us curves we could never imagine though.

It was always "the little things" that made you shake your head though.

Take for example the "found on base" concept. In the military often times things get 'side tracked' by higher priorities. 

We got into it with the "ground pounders"(pavement & equipment shop) in our own squadron...over traffic cones.

We 'stole' ('requisitioned' in proper military terminology) four dozen 28" orange traffic cones(for the roof job) from a shipment they ordered and were being held in base supply. Why?? Because base safety cited us on "soft spots" on the roof deck where someone might fall through. So how can we safely address the on going problem?? Put out traffic cones. Black and yellow caution striping just wouldn't stick (supervisors idea..lol) We kept a dozen to "mark repair areas...six cones in a tight grouping was an emergency repair" and the other three dozen to mark soft spots and areas that needed other repairs.

So then the politics come into play. 

The base commander felt the traffic cones on the roof were an 'eyesore' that needed to be avoided when dignitaries flew in by chopper.

I can't remember which dignitary it was that flew in that started it. Whether is was the prime minister of the UK or the joint chiefs...couldn't tell ya!

So we had to improvise. We had to make a "gone fishing sign" stating policy to be posted at the ladder entry to the roof. A sign was made, padlocked in place with a letter from the powers that be to "pull the cones". 

Basically it was procedure to announce to personnel the warning devices were removed and they were "on their own".

With all the BS we had to go through...it was amazing we ever got any work done!

"Got a job order to go 'pull' the cones off the roof...Collin Powell and the joint chiefs must be coming through again..." :grrr:


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## Hogwildz (Sep 22, 2007)

LMAO, I woulda painted a big smiley face on the roof at each spot 
On rubber job we did, I painted a smiley face on an AC units coolant fins, sure as hell the supervisor from the building came up and saw it. He wasn't too happy.
I left it there


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## krubbyknobs (Nov 2, 2007)

I need to install a few hvac roof curbs into an existing epdm roof (ballast). I am familiar with self adheisive membrane, but have never used epdm. my question is, are the tecniques the same for both? and if so what materials will i need?


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## Hogwildz (Nov 2, 2007)

krubbyknobs said:
			
		

> I need to install a few hvac roof curbs into an existing epdm roof (ballast). I am familiar with self adheisive membrane, but have never used epdm. my question is, are the tecniques the same for both? and if so what materials will i need?



By self adhesive membrane, do you mean uncured flashing? Depends on manufacturer. Most want EPDM field rubber used to wrap the curbs. Then use the "peel & stick" self adhesive uncured flashing on the corners, usually a double wrap. Although they had the premade peel & stick corners the last few years I was installing, and these were one to a corner.
This is all dependent on if its still under warranty or not. If it is, the curbs flashing must be done to the roofing manufacturer's specs. If its out of warranty, you can do it any way you want. Unless they made vast improvements, the uncured lasts about 10 years, and you will be reflashing again. The other problem is the ballast. It leaves the rubber dirty as hell, and it must be cleaned reallllll good to get the flashing to stick worth a damn. Keep in mind, you cannot use an asphalt based product on the EPDM, it will eat at it, and at the very least bubble the rubber anywhere you put an asphalt based product. Chances are if you have not used or installed EPDM roofing before, the stuff your thinking of using is the wrong stuff. For EPDM, you will typically need a cleaner, a primer, a black or seam & flashing glue, lap sealant, and water cut off mastic. You will most likely need to cut the rubber and insulation down to the decking & buiuld back up to roof level with  2"x4" or larger framing to rest the curbs on. If you go over the rubber and its has iso or similar insulation underneath, the object on the curb, may cause the curb to crush the insulation and cause leaks in the roofing. EPDM is all about preparation. If its not prepared right, the flashings & glues will fail & leak. Especially on a ballast roof.


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## krubbyknobs (Nov 2, 2007)

Thanks for the good and fast reply. I will try to explain in detail how I was thinking of doing it, and maybe you could give me some tips if I'm wrong.

The curb is already in place on top of the EPDM. I was planing on firstly removing the ballast from the area I need to do the work, then clean the rubber. (what product I don't know yet.) Then I was going to cut the rubber to the metal roof deck as you said, then screw the curb into place. The curb is not insulated, so i was going to use Iso mechanically fastened to the curb. I suppose there must be some kind of adhiesive that i would have to roll onto all the areas where I am planning on putting the EPDM. At the corners of the curb I was planning to put some Gussets (the house shaped pieces. I don't know if that's what there called where you are.) Starting on the side closest to the drain I would apply the EPDM and roll it onto the Iso and the field. (For the wraping of the sides of the curb, I hope that it's the same kind of cuts that are used for Soprema Elastomeric membrane (bitumen)). On the laps that go 8 inches on the field I was going to use some of the special "caulking" to help seal them.

My experience is with Soprema Elastomeric membrane (bitumen). That is what I meant by self-adhiesive membrane in my earlier post.
Most of my experience comes from working with an old Newfie, so it's mostly on the job traing, with the exeption of a course on how to lay the torch on stuff. 

With a bit of "roofing common sence", and a few of your helpfull hint's I hope to be able to pull this one off, and some in the future too!.
Your help is much appreciated.
thank you
jesse


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## Hogwildz (Nov 2, 2007)

krubbyknobs said:
			
		

> Thanks for the good and fast reply. I will try to explain in detail how I was thinking of doing it, and maybe you could give me some tips if I'm wrong.
> 
> The curb is already in place on top of the EPDM. I was planing on firstly removing the ballast from the area I need to do the work, then clean the rubber. (what product I don't know yet.)* Kerosene, gas, simple green, and use a plastic bristled scrub brush.*
> Then I was going to cut the rubber to the metal roof deck as you said, then screw the curb into place. *Is the a tapered metal curb, or wooden box type? You may have to lay some 2x's down to  metal decking to get the height for your curb, without photos, I am just guessing. You may not need them, you'll know this one.*
> ...


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## krubbyknobs (Nov 8, 2007)

Are there any temperature restrictions on the glue, and should I let it dry a bit (get tacky) before I stick the EPDM ?


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## Hogwildz (Nov 9, 2007)

krubbyknobs said:
			
		

> Are there any temperature restrictions on the glue, and should I let it dry a bit (get tacky) before I stick the EPDM ?


In the summer when real hot, the glue will cure fast, so about 5 mins and stick. In colder weather it can take a lil longer. When you can stick your finger against it and not have glue smear all over your finger or the rubber, your good to go. This time of year aint bad. A sunny day will make the glue set faster. Cloudy day a lil longer. You want to use like a 4" or 6" paint roller & roller pad for large areas, use one that is not cardboard tube based or it will fall apart. Something like a  3/8" nap is good. Put a nice even coat on, not real thick, just enough to put a thin layer or film on the pcs of rubber. Try not to leave any pools, puddles or globs, as these will not dry as the rest evenly, and will not adhere right. You can use the glue basically any time of year or temp. Accept when its raining of course. For smaller spots or patches, use one of the cheap 3" wooden handled natural fiber brushes like at Home Depot etc. Ya have to coat both surfaces, Ya prolly know that, just making sure.


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## TedNH (Nov 9, 2007)

I'll bite...

How do I remove mold/moss from my residential roof?


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## Hogwildz (Nov 10, 2007)

TedNH said:
			
		

> I'll bite...
> 
> How do I remove mold/moss from my residential roof?



Bleach will kill it, if you try and scrape or scrub the moss, it will pull the granulars and possibly top layer of roofing off. It has already sunk its roots into the nooks & crannies of the roofing surface. You can try to lightly brush it, but if the roof granulars start coming off in large amounts, just kill it and let it go. Copper will leave stains & streaks down the roof, although it does deter moss growth. Better yet do a search for zinc strips online. Basically a long roll of zinc banding, mount 1/2 under the top ridge cap shingle and 1/2 sticking out from underneath all the way across the roof. Won't stain the roof and also keeps moss from growing. And lasts a long time.
Also if you have trees overhanging the roof, cutting the branches back will also help.


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## precaud (Jun 26, 2010)

Thought I'd give an update on my homebrewed wrinkle/blister repair technique from back in 2007. After three years it's totally fine, no signs of new blistering/wrinkling and the repaired areas have been stable. The white acrylic coating really helps keep the roof temps down and that makes a big difference because heat played a big role in making it slip in the first place. Also the asphalt emulsion with knit polyester scrim is proving so far to be a good method for mod bit repair, as long as it's coated. I'm going to use it again on a porch roof which is leaking.



			
				keyman512us said:
			
		

> precaud said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## yesdear (Jan 2, 2017)

Hi, have a small leak in the back room by the window, and thinking it's due to the poor shape of the tar roof there.  Looking for the most economical quick fix, any suggestions appreciated.  Also wondering why there's gravel only on one portion of the roof.

Thanks.


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## Hogwildz (Jan 2, 2017)

yesdear said:


> Hi, have a small leak in the back room by the window, and thinking it's due to the poor shape of the tar roof there.  Looking for the most economical quick fix, any suggestions appreciated.  Also wondering why there's gravel only on one portion of the roof.
> 
> Thanks.


I am guessing your leak is near the eave of the roof. It looks like the edge metal was installed after the main roof was set. You need to clean off(sweep very well) the edge, and re-muck with asphalt roof cement & tape. The tape is a roll of asphalt impregnated mesh. Get yourself a 5 gallon can of black asphalt rood cement, and a roll of tape(usually comes in 100' rolls). Trowel a thin layer of roof cement about 6" wide along the entire length of the roof edge(over top of the edge metal). About 1/4" 3/8" thick, thicker is ok, but not too thick.

Cut a length of fabric tape the length of the roof edge, starting at one end, set the tape on the cement you applied, press the tape into the cement with a trowel, glide the trowel over the tape pressing it into the cement. I usually set the tape about 1/2" away from the edge of the edge metal that sits over the gutter side, this gives room for the cement to bond and keep the tape buried, and lessens chances of the tape peeling up, as it can do when run all the way top the edge of the edge metal. The cement should oozee out both sides of the tape some, work the tape in the entire length. If you're not getting ooze from under both sides of the tape, you didn't put enough cement down on the first run of cement. You can let the ooze start to cover the edge of the tape to help hold it in place. Until you get a few feet, the tape might start to slide while your troweling it into the cement, just keep an eye on it, and make sure it doesn't slide.

Once you have the tape set in, then go back and spread another layer of roof cement over the tape. Again 1/4" to 3/8" or so. You want to trowel the second layer of cement smooth and fairly flat, and it should cover the tape completely. You don't want any tape showing.
Try to avoid going too thick with the roof cement, too thick does not help, and in this case more is not better. . Plus at the gutter edge, you don't want to crate a huge dam for the water to pond at.

The gravel is called slag. That was used to protect the roof from the elements, sun, UV etc. It is old school, and rarely used any more if at all these days.

Your lower roof looks like it is in dire need to be coated. That photos of the corner looks like either the prior coating is peeling up, or the roof felts are showing and coming up. Also, the back of the roof where is meets the small wall to the upper slag roof, appears that the flashings there are in bad shape. I can see in then photos, that the flashing has fish mouths in it, and looks like it is coming loose. If it is not too bad, you can trowel some roof cement into the fish mouths, press the flap back down, and tape & cover as you are going to do with the edge metal described above.
If the flashing is too far gone, it will need to be replaced or gone over with new flashing, either with hot tar roofing, or modified bitumen.

Once that upper slag roof start leaking, they are a bioch to repair but it is doable, not fun, but doable.

Once all the repairs are done, wait about 60-90 days, and recoat the entire roof surface with alumacoat. Which is an aluminum based silver roof coating. It helps reflect sun & UV, and will extend the life of the roof. Coating is for the lower roof, the slag is not coatable.


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## Hogwildz (Jan 2, 2017)

Here is the product you're looking for. You can prolly get it cheaper at a local roofing supply house.
Get either 4" or 6" fabric tape. I'd go 6" for better coverage and to make sure you cover the old stuff. Just apply the much wider than the tape by a couple inches.
Here are ideas of what you need. These are products I used in the industry, you can use any brand you want, just don't cheap out, as you get what you pay for. The coating is up to you, but if you want to maintain & prolong you roof life, you may want to consider it. You'll also need a trowel, and a pair of long armed gloves. Muck will end up on you, so wear old clothes. And GOJO or gas to clean the muck off you skin.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Karnak-5-Gal-Asphalt-Flashing-Cement-19-5/100311255
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Karnak-6-in-x-150-ft-Asphalt-Cotton-Membrane-55-06/100235292
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Karnak-5-Gal-Fibered-Aluminum-Coating-97-5AF/100292260
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Marshall...ndle-GTP7-HD/202091770?keyword=roofing+trowel


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## BrotherBart (Jan 2, 2017)

A nine year old thread still alive. A new record.


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## Hogwildz (Jan 2, 2017)

I merely answered a recent question. ;-)
9 yr 14w


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## lml999 (Jan 3, 2017)

TedNH said:


> I'll bite...
> 
> How do I remove mold/moss from my residential roof?



...and a related question. Our attic floor is insulated, and humidity has gotten to a 5x8 section of the plywood underlayment. There's some evidence of mold on the underside of the roof, nothing too bad.

What's the best way to get rid of the mold? Spray bleach on it? Full strength? Diluted?

Thanks!


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## Hogwildz (Jan 3, 2017)

Full strength, or purchase a mold remediation product. You will want to find the cause. Is the underlayment you're speaking of the actual roof decking, or plywood over the attic insulation on the attic floor? Does the roof system have ventilation installed? Soffit vents & ridge vent? You should not be getting mold up there with proper ventilation.


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## yesdear (Jan 5, 2017)

Hogwildz said:


> Here is the product you're looking for. You can prolly get it cheaper at a local roofing supply house.
> Get either 4" or 6" fabric tape. I'd go 6" for better coverage and to make sure you cover the old stuff. Just apply the much wider than the tape by a couple inches.
> Here are ideas of what you need. These are products I used in the industry, you can use any brand you want, just don't cheap out, as you get what you pay for. The coating is up to you, but if you want to maintain & prolong you roof life, you may want to consider it. You'll also need a trowel, and a pair of long armed gloves. Muck will end up on you, so wear old clothes. And GOJO or gas to clean the muck off you skin.
> http://www.homedepot.com/p/Karnak-5-Gal-Asphalt-Flashing-Cement-19-5/100311255
> ...



Thanks so much.  As soon as the roof dries up and there no rain in the forecast, I'll get to it.


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## Hogwildz (Jan 5, 2017)

No problemo. Not sure where you are in Cali, but I'll be in Santa Monica on 2/10, then heading to Cabo the following day.
If you run into trouble, let me know, if your close to there, I can stop by and give a hand on the 10th. But only the 10th. If you have any other questions, just ask. Good luck.


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## semipro (Jan 5, 2017)

Killing mold requires the right combination of chemical and exposure time.  Even with a strong mold killing solution the treated surface needs to stay wet for a certain amount of time to ensure proper treatment.  So if the air is dry you may need to reapply the solution to maintain a wet surface.


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## yesdear (Jan 9, 2017)

What an offer.  If only I wasn't 400 miles north of santa monica.  Enjoy the trip.  I'll keep in touch.


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## firefighterjake (Jan 9, 2017)

And the crazy thing is . . . knowing what I have read about Hog over the years . . . he would follow through on that offer if you had asked . . . he truly is a class act in terms of helping out other folks.


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## Hogwildz (Jan 12, 2017)

firefighterjake said:


> And the crazy thing is . . . knowing what I have read about Hog over the years . . . he would follow through on that offer if you had asked . . . he truly is a class act in terms of helping out other folks.


That's what it is all about. Pay it forward, or F off!


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## osagebow (Jan 12, 2017)

About to show our maintenance guys this. they keep re-patching a leaking spot on the school library. Evidently, roofing is over their heads. On the plus side, killdeer love nesting in the "slag" rocks.


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## Hogwildz (Jan 13, 2017)

osagebow said:


> About to show our maintenance guys this. they keep re-patching a leaking spot on the school library. Evidently, roofing is over their heads. On the plus side, killdeer love nesting in the "slag" rocks.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That don't look like slag, might be a ballast rubber roof, they really suck to repair.


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## sfsurfdude69 (Jan 14, 2017)

I just bought a house in Spokane, Wa. I started my roofing project late in the year (December) and of course like clockwork it started being snow season and hasnt stopped since.  Before the snow I was able to get the "self Stick" HT Underlayment on the entire roof. Alot of it due to the cold I used a weed propane burner to heat up the underlayment to get it to stick, and it was marginal? I got used to it more as I proceeded...
Im going with a metal roof from Metal Sales the classic rib series. I managed to get three panels on and the remainder is underlayment exposed until the snow is over. I tried to get up there but when its wet its really slippery. I cant be bothered towel drying everywhere Im walking each day.
The inspector said why did you put ice and dam barrier over the entire roof? I said I wanted a waterproof roof period. In a couple months I will continue. There were gutters up before but I put some on but during the winter the frozen water just freezes and fills the gutters. My goal is to keep as much moisture away from the foundation but all the freezing and snow makes that hard. Im not familiar with snow as I just moved here from California, in fact I never had been in zero degrees until last week.
The roof tear off went like this... Three layers of old roofing and 900. dumpster fees. Never have done roofing till this job, I realize it takes longer for me to do it being unfamiliar with roofing but so far so good no leaks to my house during the process.
During the down time on the roof Im rewiring my house upgrading to 200 amp service. I hated the two prong plug senerio its a hassle.


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## Hogwildz (Jan 15, 2017)

The underlayment will be fine, as long as you don't let it exposed for very long periods of time. You should be fine till the weather gets nice again. Is there a ventilation system? Soffit vents at the eaves and ridge vent at the peak? You will need to make a ridge vent system out of the metal when finishing.The roofing supplier may even have the ridge venting cap parts as made by the roofing manufacturer. 3 layers of old roof was 1 layer illegal. 2 is typically the most allowed.
If you are using the roofing you just screw through with screws that have neoprene washers under the heads, you may want to consider a true standing seam snap lock metal roof. They are more expensive, but last longer, and no exposed fasteners to replace when the neoprene washers rot out. A lot easier to install also, and most come with a 50yr paint warranty, usually Kynar paint or similar.
For the gutters, you can get heat wiring made for gutters. It works very well.
Get used to the cold & snow, you're going to be seeing much, much more of it now.
I'll be moving to the Methow Valley in several months, love it there.


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## osagebow (Jan 15, 2017)

Hogwildz said:


> That don't look like slag, might be a ballast rubber roof, they really suck to repair.


Yeah there is rubber under there. I was  thinking maybe sometimes slag, sometimes pebbles were used on the type you were describing, especially in PA, and "Slag" would be a catchall term for both.


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## Hogwildz (Jan 16, 2017)

osagebow said:


> Yeah there is rubber under there. I was  thinking maybe sometimes slag, sometimes pebbles were used on the type you were describing, especially in PA, and "Slag" would be a catchall term for both.


Ballast is typically screened and cleaned river rock., slag is more like volcanic rock, and much smaller. Looks like the river rock on that roof is old and deteriorating, hence the small pcs. Slag truly sucks, especially if the roof has pitch in the tar. Eats skin, leaving you with a non-sun, sun burn. Actually it causes chemical burns, terrible stuff.


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## sfsurfdude69 (Jan 16, 2017)

Hogwildz said:


> The underlayment will be fine, as long as you don't let it exposed for very long periods of time. You should be fine till the weather gets nice again. Is there a ventilation system? Soffit vents at the eaves and ridge vent at the peak? You will need to make a ridge vent system out of the metal when finishing.The roofing supplier may even have the ridge venting cap parts as made by the roofing manufacturer. 3 layers of old roof was 1 layer illegal. 2 is typically the most allowed.
> If you are using the roofing you just screw through with screws that have neoprene washers under the heads, you may want to consider a true standing seam snap lock metal roof. They are more expensive, but last longer, and no exposed fasteners to replace when the neoprene washers rot out. A lot easier to install also, and most come with a 50yr paint warranty, usually Kynar paint or similar.
> For the gutters, you can get heat wiring made for gutters. It works very well.
> Get used to the cold & snow, you're going to be seeing much, much more of it now.
> I'll be moving to the Methow Valley in several months, love it there.


Funny about getting use to the chill in the air, I cant see that happening...


There is a ventilation system. The soffits vent are on the very small overhang I have and I presently have 2 vents 12 x 14 on each end of the gable. I was researching the ventilation "theory" online, someone stated that having the gable end vents and ridge venting would cancel out the ventilation path. I dont already have ridge venting in place but plan on it. Im wondering if I should eliminate the gable end venting at that point if the theory of cancellation by having both in place is true. I also plan on insulating my attic space with about 2 feet of cellulose insulation once my elec wiring inspections are completed. One concern I do have however is I found out I have vermiculite insulation in my attic, it is said to have asbestos in it and is obviously harmful with contact. I already have had contact with it doing wiring up there. Im assuming I can cover it with the other insulation and not bother it further once the elec is done. Some people say to remove it others just say leave it undisturbed. I am sealing all ceiling boxes to prevent any from coming in the house as a precaution. But I am interested on any thoughts of the cancellation theory of the venting...


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## Hogwildz (Jan 16, 2017)

Install the ridge vent, and get rid of the gable end vents, they are only good for direct cross breezes, and don't do the job a soffit & ridge vent system will do. Yes, they can cause disturbance in the flow of a soffit to ridge system. Plus, rain and snow can blow in them, just junk them and close up the openings. Make sure you have plenty of soffit ventilation. Continuous is best for the soffit area.
As far as the insulation, up to you, not sure what I would do. Prolly bag it and get rid of it, replace with blown in cellulose. How thick is the old stuff up there?


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## sfsurfdude69 (Jan 16, 2017)

Hogwildz said:


> Install the ridge vent, and get rid of the gable end vents, they are only good for direct cross breezes, and don't do the job a soffit & ridge vent system will do. Yes, they can cause disturbance in the flow of a soffit to ridge system. Plus, rain and snow can blow in them, just junk them and close up the openings. Make sure you have plenty of soffit ventilation. Continuous is best for the soffit area.
> As far as the insulation, up to you, not sure what I would do. Prolly bag it and get rid of it, replace with blown in cellulose. How thick is the old stuff up there?





The vermiculite is maybe a couple inches with some other insulation on top of it making up about 4 inches total. Bagging it isnt an option it has to be removed professionally according to the experts otherwise leaving it undisturbed is the second option.


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