# Pellet lesson 101



## ltlhawk (Jan 3, 2013)

Hi folks, as most of you know I am relatively new to pellet stove, but am enjoying learning and experimenting with my new stove. I have had it for one month now and when I bought it I also bought 3 tons of North American pellets from HD. I had questions about the amount of hot air coming out of the stove and after much research I realized the stove was performing normal (thanks hearth forum guys).

This past weekend I picked up 4 bags of Geneva from a local farm and today I thought I would give them a try. WOW.. what a different.. I keep checking the stove settings because the flame is bright and tall compared to what I was used to seeing (on level 3 of 5). The heat coming out of the stove is 40 degrees higher than what I was getting with the North A pellets. This lesson supports what the people here at Hearth.com have been saying all along, 

"All pellets are not created equal".


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## imacman (Jan 3, 2013)

NA's are just rebagged Curran.....not a good pellet at all, IMO.  Maybe buy a ton of something better (the Geneva's?) and mix the NA's with them?

What other pellets are available in your area?


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## ltlhawk (Jan 3, 2013)

I saw Inferno, Maine Choice and Green Team at lowes the other day, but I have not tried any of those and not sure yet if I will. The Geneva's are $250 a ton, but now I can see why. They are carried by a local farm and not a box store. I like the idea of mixing them with the NA.. good idea. I am not sure what else is available in southern NH, but maybe some other folks have suggestions. I am open to them all.


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## Gary Gileau (Jan 3, 2013)

Indeed! I'm in the same boat as you. Still learning but making progress. So far my personal high temps are using Maine Woods. The Rutland thermometer on the front of my stove can vary 75 degrees or more with different pellets. I'm running out of choices around here, I guess I'll have to travel a little to find something new.


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## Gary Gileau (Jan 3, 2013)

Oh, the other thing. Inexpensive pellets are not necesarily cheaper. During these colder nights I am amazed at how empty the hopper is with the lower grade stuff. It has to run on high longer to satisfy the thermostat.


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## Mr. Spock (Jan 3, 2013)

Last I looked on the Geneva web site they use trees not saw dust. I find them to be good myself. I got them for 239 a ton at a local mom and pop lumber yard. A little more ash than other pellets I have tried but they burn hot and clean.


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## ltlhawk (Jan 3, 2013)

Mr. Spock said:


> 139 a ton


 
OMG... Wish I could find that price around here..


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## rmcgr8one (Jan 3, 2013)

I have tried all the box store pellets and like the fire sides the most from the list you gave.  I use Vermonts for the past 3 days thought.  They throw out some massive heat with barely any ash.


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## Mr. Spock (Jan 3, 2013)

ltlhawk said:


> OMG... Wish I could find that price around here..


Me too! That should have been 239. I using my ipad  and must have fat fingered that awesome price!


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## imacman (Jan 3, 2013)

ltlhawk said:


> I saw Inferno, Maine Choice and Green Team at lowes the other day, but I have not tried any of those and not sure yet if I will. The Geneva's are $250 a ton, but now I can see why. They are carried by a local farm and not a box store. I like the idea of mixing them with the NA.. good idea. I am not sure what else is available in southern NH, but maybe some other folks have suggestions. I am open to them all.


Stay FAR away from the Infernos.  

I have been burning Greene Team, and for the price you can get them at Lowes, they are a good pellet.  IMO, get 3-4 bags of the GT and burn them to see how they stack up against the Geneva's.

BTW, here's a place to compare reviews:

http://www.woodpelletreviews.com


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## Mr. Spock (Jan 3, 2013)

imacman said:


> Stay FAR away from the Infernos.
> 
> I have been burning Greene Team, and for the price you can get them at Lowes, they are a good pellet.  IMO, get 3-4 bags of the GT and burn them to see how they stack up against the Geneva's.
> 
> ...



I will back that up. I have tried the Greene Team from lowes and I liked them. Less ash than the Geneva and seemed about as hot. I was thinking of getting some for next season and try them out longer term. Gotta burn some Geneva to make room first.


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## kenstogie (Jan 4, 2013)

I bought a ton of the N Amer's at HD yea they suck.  I recently got some of the Green Team Platinums at Lowes.... ALOT hotter and they heat alot better. They cost more but the heat is well worth it. I'll be using the N Amer's during March/shoulder months.


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## MommyOf4 (Jan 4, 2013)

Mr. Spock said:


> Last I looked on the Geneva web site they use trees not saw dust. I find them to be good myself. I got them for 139 a ton at a local mom and pop lumber yard. A little more ash than other pellets I have tried but they burn hot and clean.



I'm pretty new to the pellet world so can you explain to me what a "clean" burn would be?


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## Mr. Spock (Jan 4, 2013)

MommyOf4 said:


> I'm pretty new to the pellet world so can you explain to me what a "clean" burn would be?


 
Sure. A clean burning pellet leaves a very fine white powdery ash on the heat exchangers directly above and around the burn pot. You may even see this white powder on the sides of the burn box. The white powder is indicative of a complete burn and the best residue you can see in your pellet stove. I think it looks nice too because it's white "clean". This is in contrast to a brown or black sooty deposits (creosote).

It also means the burn pot is free of clinkers or other types of unwanted deposits and carbon buildup is not excessive.

So in summary you need to clean less often and the fire box looks nice.


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## John C. (Jan 4, 2013)

Mr. Spock said:


> I will back that up. I have tried the Greene Team from lowes and I liked them. Less ash than the Geneva and seemed about as hot. I was thinking of getting some for next season and try them out longer term. Gotta burn some Geneva to make room first.


Greene Team Platnium?


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## Mr. Spock (Jan 4, 2013)

John C. said:


> Greene Team Platnium?


Yes. Guess I should have clarified that.


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## kenstogie (Jan 4, 2013)

John C. said:


> Greene Team Platnium?


 As I recall the Green Team Platinums were about $5 a bag. Maybe a little less.


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## Mr. Spock (Jan 4, 2013)

kenstogie said:


> As I recall the Green Team Platinums were about $5 a bag. Maybe a little less.


Ya I paid 5.20 but that was last week. Guessing better deals off season.


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## Augmister (Jan 4, 2013)

Welcome, Gary.   Price and quality of pellet should not be confused.  I can get Stove Chow and Fireside Ultras at HD for $209/ton and both are considered a good pellet choice by many who hang out here. You should first consider some of the reviews here and then try them for yourself in your stove.   Then, shop the price!


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## John C. (Jan 4, 2013)

$5.58 a bag Newington Ct.


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## will711 (Jan 4, 2013)

Greene Team Platinum = regular Greene Team The word Platinum makes consumer think they must be" better" so they charge more regular GT's were $209/ton here.


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## imacman (Jan 4, 2013)

Mr. Spock said:


> Sure. A clean burning pellet leaves a very fine white powdery ash on the heat exchangers directly above and around the burn pot. You may even see this white powder on the sides of the burn box. The white powder is indicative of a complete burn and the best residue you can see in your pellet stove. I think it looks nice too because it's white "clean". This is in contrast to a brown or black sooty deposits (creosote).
> 
> It also means the burn pot is free of clinkers or other types of unwanted deposits and carbon buildup is not excessive.
> 
> So in summary you need to clean less often and the fire box looks nice.


In addition, the flame in the burn pot is not tall, stringy, and dark orange w/blackish tips.....it's shorter, very active, with a light orange/yellow flame and should have a small amount of blue at the base.


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## Mr. Spock (Jan 4, 2013)

imacman said:


> In addition, the flame in the burn pot is not tall, stringy, and dark orange w/blackish tips.....it's shorter, very active, with a light orange/yellow flame and should have a small amount of blue at the base.



Truth. You can have the best pellet made but if your airflow is restricted no white stuff.


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## AbutterRAM (Jan 7, 2013)

I burned a ton of inferno pellets. They tend to have pellets that are over 3 inches long in the bags which never stopped my auger but made it run very loud. After burning a bag the entire pot would be filled with a giant black clinker and would end up clogging up the pot. I switched to Greene Team and haven't had any issues. Stay away from inferno pellets.


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## battlesphoto (Jan 13, 2013)

Hello. New to forum. Just purchased two Greenfire GF 55 stoves in November 2012. Still on the learning curve. We have burnt about a ton thus far. 1/2 of O'Mally and 1/2 of Barefoot. I have been getting clinkers everyday and thus having to clean the stove daily. I called Home and Hearth where the stoves were purchased. Their advise was to occasionally burn at a higher lever (4-5) for a few hours then return to my  "normal" level that we burn (1-2). Tried this and no change. Their other advise was to remove the back panels and clean out any ash since it may be restricting air flow. I spent over an hour yesterday cleaning the stove and again this morning, about 18 hours later, clinker in the burn pot. I have been trying the damper at different openings (half way to full open) and this has not changed the results either. Advise please?


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## jtakeman (Jan 13, 2013)

battlesphoto said:


> Hello. New to forum. Just purchased two Greenfire GF 55 stoves in November 2012. Still on the learning curve. We have burnt about a ton thus far. 1/2 of O'Mally and 1/2 of Barefoot. I have been getting clinkers everyday and thus having to clean the stove daily. I called Home and Hearth where the stoves were purchased. Their advise was to occasionally burn at a higher lever (4-5) for a few hours then return to my "normal" level that we burn (1-2). Tried this and no change. Their other advise was to remove the back panels and clean out any ash since it may be restricting air flow. I spent over an hour yesterday cleaning the stove and again this morning, about 18 hours later, clinker in the burn pot. I have been trying the damper at different openings (half way to full open) and this has not changed the results either. Advise please?


 
Welcome to the group. Try stirring the burnpot just before you raise the heat level. This might help remove some of the crud. If the control has feed trim rate try reducing the feed trim some. It should help burn the pellets a bit more. Or raise the combustion air trim. You might even need to open damper a little more. If all else fails, They do make a high ash burnpot liner for the Enviro stoves that will fit the GF55. You can find it under the Meridian parts listings.


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## Bank (Jan 13, 2013)

Mr. Spock said:


> Sure. A clean burning pellet leaves a very fine white powdery ash on the heat exchangers directly above and around the burn pot. You may even see this white powder on the sides of the burn box. The white powder is indicative of a complete burn and the best residue you can see in your pellet stove. I think it looks nice too because it's white "clean". This is in contrast to a brown or black sooty deposits (creosote).
> 
> It also means the burn pot is free of clinkers or other types of unwanted deposits and carbon buildup is not excessive.
> 
> So in summary you need to clean less often and the fire box looks nice.


 
I agree, I've been bruning CleanFire Pacifics and Granules LGs and have nothing but that light white ash around my burnpot and on the heat exchanger plates on my Accentra. Glad to hear that about the "white powder" ash.


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## battlesphoto (Jan 13, 2013)

Is it ok to open the door while the stove is burning?
Is the feed trim rate you are talking about the auger rate? If so, right now it is set to "factory setting."
As far at the damper goes..it is wide open.
Is it possible there is a problem with the damper? According to the manual the damper is suppose to be installed by the technician. Although we had our stoves professionally installed the dampers were installed by us.


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## jtakeman (Jan 13, 2013)

battlesphoto said:


> Is it ok to open the door while the stove is burning?
> Is the feed trim rate you are talking about the auger rate? If so, right now it is set to "factory setting."
> As far at the damper goes..it is wide open.
> Is it possible there is a problem with the damper? According to the manual the damper is suppose to be installed by the technician. Although we had our stoves professionally installed the dampers were installed by us.


 
Q.)Is it ok to open the door while the stove is burning?
A.) Yes, Just turn the stove to low and let the flame settle down. Then open the door with your burnpot tool in hand. Give it a quick swish/scrape and close the door. Crank it back up and your good to go!

Q.)Is the feed trim rate you are talking about the auger rate?
A.) Most controllers have a feed trim adjustment. It isn't the feed level, its a trim level. We would need to know what stove you have to tell if you have this feature.

Q.)Is it possible there is a problem with the damper?
A.) If yours is wide open, You could have an air flow issue. The dampers come with the stoves. The tech's only adjust them(usually with a mag gauge) and set them to a factory recommended spec.


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## battlesphoto (Jan 13, 2013)

jtakeman said:


> Q.)Is it ok to open the door while the stove is burning?
> A.) Yes, Just turn the stove to low and let the flame settle down. Then open the door with your burnpot tool in hand. Give it a quick swish/scrape and close the door. Crank it back up and your good to go!
> 
> Q.)Is the feed trim rate you are talking about the auger rate?
> ...


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## battlesphoto (Jan 13, 2013)

I have a Regency Greenfire GF55 Pellet Stove.
Just looked over manual again and I think the feed trim is the auger. It states the auger can be changed from factory setting of feeding every 3 seconds to 4 seconds or 2 seconds. It also states that this is usually only needed for poor quality pellets. I have been using Barefoots. I think that is a good pellet from the reviews.
The damper is the same that came with the stove. When they installed the stove the damper came dislodged and my husband reached in and screwed it back in. Don't know if that is ok or not. Also the tech's never used a mag gauge with the installation. Is this a must?
We live in Putnam County New York. Do you know of any pellet dealers that deliver to this area? Been having a hard time finding places and choices seem limited. Found Barefoots $289 ton, O'Mally $279 ton, Great American $229 ton, NE $269 ton, Energex $279 ton and Cubex $329 ton. Any advise on pellets?


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## jtakeman (Jan 13, 2013)

battlesphoto said:


> I have a Regency Greenfire GF55 Pellet Stove.
> Just looked over manual again and I think the feed trim is the auger. It states the auger can be changed from factory setting of feeding every 3 seconds to 4 seconds or 2 seconds.


 
Here is what I got from the GF55 manual. Looks like it has feed trim and combustion trim settings. See #4 and #5 below.* As for you pellets you might want to start your own thread!*


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## battlesphoto (Jan 13, 2013)

jtakeman said:


> Here is what I got from the GF55 manual. Looks like it has feed trim and combustion trim settings. See #4 and #5 below.* As for you pellets you might want to start your own thread!*
> View attachment 89293


 
Actually my panel looks different.
I did increase the auger trim to every 4 seconds instead of manufacture setting of 3 seconds.
Will see how this goes.
THANKS for all the advise.


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## battlesphoto (Jan 14, 2013)

Well just woke up and there is another clinker. 
So far I have removed the entire firebox and spent over an hour cleaning....that didn't work.
Damper wide open....that didn't work.
Tried turning the setting up for a few hours to "burn off" the clinker...that didn't work.
Changed the auger trim from feeding every 3 seconds to every 4 seconds....that didn't work.
I CAN'T KEEP CLEANING THIS THING EVERY DAY!
I will pick up a bag of Hamer's today and try a different pellet. Maybe the Barefoots are the problem.
Any other suggestions?


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## stovelark (Jan 14, 2013)

Dear Battle-   reading your comments-  are these stoves free standing??  How are they vented??  When you adjust the damper is there a big adjustment in the flame picture??  When pulled out the flame should get brighter and shorter with a blowtorch appearance, when pushed in, should get longer, lazier and darken in color dull orange having black tips.  If this is not happening, check for proper airflow-  make sure too that ash door is pushed in at the bottom. If thats ok. start checking venting for obstruction, I'm assuming the combustion blower is working properly.  Adjusting the damper with a magnehelic is a good thing, but you can certainly adjust it by visual.  One other thing too, make sure the burnpot is sitting properly in the housing.  You mentioned two stoves, are both acting up??  If so, gotta think pellets could be the common element.  I'd put the trim and air back to factory settings too.  The Greenfire is the same stove as an Enviro Meridian which is a digital board version of the Enviro EF3, a stove thats been around for years and years, a proven design.  It could also be dirty vening but didn't sound like you had burned that much pellet yet. Let us know what you find.  If you have concerns, the dealer hopefully will get involved too. 

Stovelark
Enviro EF3 FS pellet
Enviro Empress FPI AC pellet
Enviro Kodiak 1700 FS wood


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## battlesphoto (Jan 14, 2013)

Both stoves are free standing. Vented straight out through and outside wall. Yes I notice a change in the flame when the damper is adjusted. I always make sure the burn pot is sitting straight and correct. I clean/vac out entire inside of firebox (daily...but want to spread that out!) and just took the back of the firebox off and cleaned out the built up ash. I was expecting to see a big difference given the amount of ash I cleaned out from behind the firebox wall. Only real difference I notice is heat output. The same pellets seem to be putting out much much more heat!! But every morning I wake up to a clinker! Tried changing the factory setting on auger feed from 3 to 4 seconds...no real difference. Just picked up 3 bags of green supreme and 3 bags of green team from Lowes. Will try those tomorrow. Was using O'Mally and Barefoot. So far the only pellets I can find are:
O'Mally
Barefoot
Green Supreme
Green Team
Inferno
Great American
NE
Energex
Cubex
Hamers
Homestead
Cleanfire Hardwood
LG
Cleanfire Pacific

From what I have read on reviews Inferno, Energex, and NEWP are no good.
Barefoot, Green Team, Hamers are good.

Any advice on above pellets list? Looking for the Pot Of Gold (low ash, clean, high heat and cheap)!


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## glenc0322 (Jan 14, 2013)

everyone is looking for the pot of gold but what works great in my stove may be terrible in yours and even if you have the same stove. your set up could be different and that will effect how the stove operates. you need to pick a pellet and try it untill you find the one you like then buy that brand and hope its the same batch because they are all different. especially year to year. good luck


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## battlesphoto (Jan 14, 2013)

glenc0322 said:


> everyone is looking for the pot of gold but what works great in my stove may be terrible in yours and even if you have the same stove. your set up could be different and that will effect how the stove operates. you need to pick a pellet and try it untill you find the one you like then buy that brand and hope its the same batch because they are all different. especially year to year. good luck


I notice you use Green Supreme and (?) Great American.
Do you like them?
Yes I understand all stoves run different. Even Pellets are different from year to year. A never ending search...right?


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## glenc0322 (Jan 14, 2013)

battlesphoto said:


> I notice you use Green Supreme and (?) Great American.
> Do you like them?
> Yes I understand all stoves run different. Even Pellets are different from year to year. A never ending search...right?


I like them the price is great for the green supremes only 180 ton from the box store and the gaps are a better pellet with less ash but cost 240 last year.  Both pellets were good heat and were light ash.   I Live on long island so its not real cold.when it was in the low 30's I was using 1 bag of pellets and it lasted 22 hrs my house was kept in the 70's  I have a 3 bed room ranch.  I would recommend either pellet .  next year I am just going to get the supremes for the price they were better  for me


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## stovelark (Jan 15, 2013)

Ok battle-   if you cleaned interior. did you get in between the H/Exch tubes well too?  And the upper baffle plate? It sounds like you have checked most things.  How about the ash door??   If damper is changing flame look, then sounds like the stove is working ok.  You can time the auger feed by getting the settings out of the manual if you think the motherboard might not be working correctly.  I'd go back to factory settings for feed and air trims.  If you get a clinker buildup still   how long does it take to build up??  Is it a partial buildup or a brick in the burnpot??  On the pellets, I'd suggest Hamers, cleanfire pacific barefoot cleanfire hardwood    all have been good pellets.  Let us know what you find. 

Stovelark
Enviro EF3 FS pellet
Enviro Empress FPI AC
Enviro Kodiak 1700 wood FS


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## StormPanic (Jan 15, 2013)

Hey There - I also own a GF55 - got it this year.  I was having the same type of problems until I installed my OAK.  Do you have an OAK installed? - makes a huge difference.  I have basically tried every brand of pellet available in my area and the best burning for me in my stove has been Fireside Ultra from Home Depot.  I have also had good luck with Stove Chow, Cubex, and MWP blend.  My damper is wide open, feed trim at 2, combustion air at 5.


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## battlesphoto (Jan 15, 2013)

StormPanic said:


> Hey There - I also own a GF55 - got it this year. I was having the same type of problems until I installed my OAK. Do you have an OAK installed? - makes a huge difference. I have basically tried every brand of pellet available in my area and the best burning for me in my stove has been Fireside Ultra from Home Depot. I have also had good luck with Stove Chow, Cubex, and MWP blend. My damper is wide open, feed trim at 2, combustion air at 5.


First, what is the "OAK"?
Second, how do you adjust the combustion air (or is 5 the factory setting)?
Third, is the feed trim the auger? The factory setting is every 3 seconds. Why did you drop to 2 seconds?
Will drop by Homedepot and see what they have.


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## StormPanic (Jan 15, 2013)

battlesphoto said:


> First, what is the "OAK"?
> Second, how do you adjust the combustion air (or is 5 the factory setting)?
> Third, is the feed trim the auger? The factory setting is every 3 seconds. Why did you drop to 2 seconds?
> Will drop by Homedepot and see what they have.


 
Hello - OAK is the outside air kit (or outside air intake).

My control panel looks like the one in the picture above. I actually just checked and my feed trim is set to 4 and combustion air is 5. You hold down the combustion air trim or feed trim button and hit the arrows up/down to adjust (if your control panel is like the one in the pic above).  Feed trim is the auger trim.

My problem was that my stove was not getting enough combustion air. OAK install fixed that.


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## battlesphoto (Jan 15, 2013)

StormPanic said:


> Hello - OAK is the outside air kit (or outside air intake).
> 
> My control panel looks like the one in the picture above. I actually just checked and my feed trim is set to 4 and combustion air is 5. You hold down the combustion air trim or feed trim button and hit the arrows up/down to adjust (if your control panel is like the one in the pic above). Feed trim is the auger trim.
> 
> My problem was that my stove was not getting enough combustion air. OAK install fixed that.


 
My stoves were installed by the company I purchased them from.
Don't know if an OAK is part of the installation. I will inquire. Is that a normal fixture or added piece?
Both my pellet stoves DO NOT have the control panel shown above. I find that odd. I am able to control temp levels (1-5), auger, fan (on or off), power (on or off), auger trim (2 sec, 3 sec or 4 sec), and can change control switch to manual, high/low or auto/off. Both units were purchased new. Manual dated 2008.


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## Tim Linden (Jan 15, 2013)

Glad I read this post.. I tried a bag of infernos a local store had around ($5.99 for that bag...)
to compare to the Fireside Ultras I've got 2 tons of. The pellets were way bigger but they flames
were way higher. I thought that meant better but the FSU are burning "cleaner" and less sound
of the auger breaking up the huge pellets!


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 15, 2013)

battlesphoto, are both stoves burning and what is your vent system on each stove comprised of?.

What other devices do you have in your house that burn any fuel at all?

What devices do you have in your house that move air from inside the house to outside?

Are there any fireplaces in the house?

How old is your house?


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## battlesphoto (Jan 15, 2013)

stovelark said:


> Ok battle- if you cleaned interior. did you get in between the H/Exch tubes well too? And the upper baffle plate? It sounds like you have checked most things. How about the ash door?? If damper is changing flame look, then sounds like the stove is working ok. You can time the auger feed by getting the settings out of the manual if you think the motherboard might not be working correctly. I'd go back to factory settings for feed and air trims. If you get a clinker buildup still how long does it take to build up?? Is it a partial buildup or a brick in the burnpot?? On the pellets, I'd suggest Hamers, cleanfire pacific barefoot cleanfire hardwood all have been good pellets. Let us know what you find.
> 
> Stovelark
> Enviro EF3 FS pellet
> ...


 
Reset to factory setting on auger trim. Put in a bag of Green Supreme at 7am this morning. Now 14 hours later I have a good size clinker. The clinkers are brick like when I scrape them out. Usually when I go to bed I check it and there may be 1/4 full on bottom of burn pot after running most of the day. Upon waking in the morning it is usually 3/4 full and sometimes spill over of pellets, lazy flame with damper wide open. Window with black soot along with back of firebox wall. Yes whenever I clean, which is daily because of this, I vac out the entire firebox and get down on the floor and vac out all the heat exchange tubes up top (also squeeze in a paint brush to areas I can't reach to get the ash out). What is the OAK? Is this a normal installation piece or extra? I am going to contact the seller/installer tomorrow to see what they say. Not the best customer service when dealing with trouble shooting or stove problems!


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## battlesphoto (Jan 15, 2013)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> battlesphoto, are both stoves burning and what is your vent system on each stove comprised of?.
> 
> What other devices do you have in your house that burn any fuel at all?
> 
> ...


 

We have baseboard heat that is oil run. Since installing the pellet stoves we stopped using that for the most part. Now just the hot water runs off that.
We also have central air system, off now.
No fireplaces, just the two pellet stoves. Free standing vented through an outside wall, straight through.
House is 19 years old.
Both stoves prof. installed.
Both stoves running, but in different areas of the house.
Vent system was done by prof installers.
Just tried a different pellet, Green Supreme, and again clinker after 14 hours. Was using Barefoots prior.
Had significant amount of ash behind the firebox wall upon opening and cleaning. Was surprised considering we have only burned through a ton.


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## StormPanic (Jan 15, 2013)

battlesphoto said:


> My stoves were installed by the company I purchased them from.
> Don't know if an OAK is part of the installation. I will inquire. Is that a normal fixture or added piece?
> Both my pellet stoves DO NOT have the control panel shown above. I find that odd. I am able to control temp levels (1-5), auger, fan (on or off), power (on or off), auger trim (2 sec, 3 sec or 4 sec), and can change control switch to manual, high/low or auto/off. Both units were purchased new. Manual dated 2008.


2 pipes behind your stove,  exhaust and intake.   If both have pipes attached,  you have OAK installed.   If not,  it's not installed and your stove is using the air in your house for combustion


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 15, 2013)

You don't have enough burn air going through the burn pot for whatever reason.

You could have bad door seals or be trying to run too many devices that use air at the same time or many other things that are the equivalent (air issues).

Or burning a high ash pellet without a high ash burn pot (air issue).

Be over EVL in your venting (air issue).

Already plugged up exhaust path (air issue).


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 15, 2013)

We have seen a number of professional installations that really weren't, so we ask.

So there is no vertical on those vents, just straight out? 

How long are they and do they go uphill away from the stove?.


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## battlesphoto (Jan 15, 2013)

StormPanic said:


> 2 pipes behind your stove, exhaust and intake. If both have pipes attached, you have OAK installed. If not, it's not installed and your stove is using the air in your house for combustion


 
There is only one pipe that goes straight from the back of the stove through the wall to the outside.
So this means only exhaust?
What would cause a house not to have enough air for combustion?
Also, is one way safer than the other as far as air quality?


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## jimmieguns (Jan 15, 2013)

any thoughts on Somersets? i am using them now-- not too sure since its my forst and only pellet brand so far-- have some HD Stove Chow up for tomorrow...how do the Stove Chow rate?  thanks


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## battlesphoto (Jan 16, 2013)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> We have seen a number of professional installations that really weren't, so we ask.
> 
> So there is no vertical on those vents, just straight out?
> 
> How long are they and do they go uphill away from the stove?.


 
Straight out. No incline. They are near a window so they needed to make the 4 foot clearance outside. I would say the pipe sticks outside the house about 3 feet. They put a end piece that slightly angles away from the window.
Home and Hearth were the ones that did the installation.
Is the tech manual states in bold letters "highly recommend fresh air intake on all installations" why would they not install them? Are they not obligated?
I am going to the building department who issued the permit and ask why they didn't say anything to me.
They I am hauling over to Home and Hearth and have a few words with the owner. I will demand that they do the right they and install fresh air intake since the tech manual states the above.
I am very angry right now about the air intake. Had no idea.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 16, 2013)

battlesphoto said:


> Straight out. No incline. They are near a window so they needed to make the 4 foot clearance outside. I would say the pipe sticks outside the house about 3 feet. They put a end piece that slightly angles away from the window.
> Home and Hearth were the ones that did the installation.
> Is the tech manual states in bold letters "highly recommend fresh air intake on all installations" why would they not install them? Are they not obligated?
> I am going to the building department who issued the permit and ask why they didn't say anything to me.
> ...


 
They are not obligated to install anything just because it is recommended.

Further there should be a slight upslope to that exhaust as it goes away from the stove of at least 1/4" per foot of run and if you read a bit more in the manual you may discover there is a maximum recommended length for horizontal runs. It is frequently 4 feet total (it depends upon the combustion blower in the stove among other things).


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## StormPanic (Jan 16, 2013)

Fresh air intake will make all of the difference in the world.  I had the exact same issue with the exact same stove.  Every morning I would get up and there would be a pile of unburned pellets on top of a brick.  Install is really easy.  I used this kit, took around an hour to install.

http://www.amazon.com/PelletVent-Pro-Fresh-Intake-Flex/dp/B003UKXBXK


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 16, 2013)

Now I have one other thing to mention, make certain that you get that stove's exhaust paths cleaned, if you have been burning this way for a fairly long time there is likely a high ash level in the stove and even in the small amount of venting you have.


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## battlesphoto (Jan 16, 2013)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> Now I have one other thing to mention, make certain that you get that stove's exhaust paths cleaned, if you have been burning this way for a fairly long time there is likely a high ash level in the stove and even in the small amount of venting you have.


I have only burned a ton.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 16, 2013)

battlesphoto said:


> I have only burned a ton.


 
Yes very poorly however correct?


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## battlesphoto (Jan 16, 2013)

Can I clean the exhaust myself?
How?


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 16, 2013)

With the stove off and cold you can use an ash vacuum and there are instructions in the manual for removal of the exhaust passage coverings and cleaning of the exhaust passages from the firebox side.

If you don't mind locating and disconnecting the vacuum switch hose at the stove end (or leaving the stove door open) you can use a leaf blower in suction mode over the vent with its termination cap removed. If the exhaust passages are simple in your stove this will likely clean out the ash traps as well. Remember suction mode with the vacuum hose removed at the stove end or the stove door open.



Do not point the device at anything you don't want covered in ash.


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## stovelark (Jan 16, 2013)

Battle-  First of all, sorry this problem continues for you.   I'm assuming these stoves worked correctly initially?  Is this prob with both stoves or just one??  If its an air issue, as it appears, it can only be a dirty stove.  Outside air is not required for most installs, but we've just read about stormpanic improving their stove operation.  Now about cleaning, if you're game disconnect exh pipe from stove back (you should have a quick disconnect 4 screw connection). Take side panel screws out, I'd remove combustion blower and check it (replace paper gasket for comb blower with new one, hopefully 3/4 flat gasket formed to fit and silicone into place, make mounting screw holes into gasket) take internals panels loose and clean behind exh wall with appropriate brushes, take down top baffle and clean heat exchanger tubes and housing area (get into crevices) bang on stove and watch it rain ash. Make sure ash pan housing cleaned and closed back properly. Vacuum and clean all dust from auger motor and housing area, silicone found dust leaks from hopper housing (there will be some), remove and clean convection blower, remove and clean Proof of fire switch (above comb motor) blow out vacuum line (take off vac sw and blow towards the stove housing not the vac sw side....)  Vacuum out hopper, I'd remove auger cover and clean out the auger. if can't be done, look up auger chute with mirror and light see that its clear).  Touch up all internals with paint, hook back up exh pipe taking care with that gasket too and start her up.  Outside air can be added to this stove's 2" outlet.  If this doesn't fix problem   change pellets again and punt..Good luck

Stovelark


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## StormPanic (Jan 16, 2013)

FYI I posted before / after pics here:

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/fresh-air-intake.67150/page-2


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## battlesphoto (Jan 16, 2013)

stovelark said:


> Battle- First of all, sorry this problem continues for you. I'm assuming these stoves worked correctly initially? Is this prob with both stoves or just one?? If its an air issue, as it appears, it can only be a dirty stove. Outside air is not required for most installs, but we've just read about stormpanic improving their stove operation. Now about cleaning, if you're game disconnect exh pipe from stove back (you should have a quick disconnect 4 screw connection). Take side panel screws out, I'd remove combustion blower and check it (replace paper gasket for comb blower with new one, hopefully 3/4 flat gasket formed to fit and silicone into place, make mounting screw holes into gasket) take internals panels loose and clean behind exh wall with appropriate brushes, take down top baffle and clean heat exchanger tubes and housing area (get into crevices) bang on stove and watch it rain ash. Make sure ash pan housing cleaned and closed back properly. Vacuum and clean all dust from auger motor and housing area, silicone found dust leaks from hopper housing (there will be some), remove and clean convection blower, remove and clean Proof of fire switch (above comb motor) blow out vacuum line (take off vac sw and blow towards the stove housing not the vac sw side....) Vacuum out hopper, I'd remove auger cover and clean out the auger. if can't be done, look up auger chute with mirror and light see that its clear). Touch up all internals with paint, hook back up exh pipe taking care with that gasket too and start her up. Outside air can be added to this stove's 2" outlet. If this doesn't fix problem change pellets again and punt..Good luck
> 
> Stovelark


 
I would love to do what you have listed above, however I am just not that familiar with the stove to be able to do it. I also do not know anyone in the area that has a pellet to show me how either.


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## battlesphoto (Jan 16, 2013)

Went to the Town's Building department and spoke to the Fire Marshal since they are the one's that required a permit and inspected the stove. The fire marshal was nice enough to call Home and Hearth and discuss the problem with them and the lack of a fresh air intake on the stove. Home and Hearth has the worst customer service! You would think that the last thing they would want was to make an enemy of the Fire Marshal. They insisted that the installation of a fresh air intake would NOT change the problem. They state that I must have some kind of blockage and my stove is probably dirt. How could I have a blockage in BOTH stoves in a 6 week period!! If I am cleaning (vac and brushing) the firebox out everyday again how could it be blocked and dirty in 6 weeks!!

I would love to take it apart beyond the firebox but I just do not have the knowledge and have  never seen it done. I wish I knew someone in my area that had a pellet and experience.

Home and Hearth is scheduled to come to my house Feb 1 and the Fire Marshal is going to be present when they come.

Just cleaned the stove (vac) today around noon and in less than 7 hours a lazy flame and starting to develop clinker in the ash pot. Damper wide open.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 16, 2013)

I will say this again in a slightly different way.

If you are having bad burns it doesn't take long for tons of ash to get deposited in the exhaust system of the stove which makes the next burn even worse depositing even more ash into the exhaust system, eventually the stove will either vacuum error out, over temperature error out, or pileup and burn back into the hopper.

If your units have been having problems for a good part of the last 6 weeks you need to look into your combustion air situation, dampers on most of these stoves do not have to be open much and once set properly at installation provide an excellent indication of when you need to do a deep cleaning job, once the trim controls no longer can make the adjustments when you change pellets it is time to do a deep cleaning of the stove.


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## battlesphoto (Jan 17, 2013)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> I will say this again in a slightly different way.
> 
> If you are having bad burns it doesn't take long for tons of ash to get deposited in the exhaust system of the stove which makes the next burn even worse depositing even more ash into the exhaust system, eventually the stove will either vacuum error out, over temperature error out, or pileup and burn back into the hopper.
> 
> If your units have been having problems for a good part of the last 6 weeks you need to look into your combustion air situation, dampers on most of these stoves do not have to be open much and once set properly at installation provide an excellent indication of when you need to do a deep cleaning job, once the trim controls no longer can make the adjustments when you change pellets it is time to do a deep cleaning of the stove.


 

I understand you are stating the stove will need cleaning of the exhaust and such. As stated above I wish I had the knowledge/experience to do myself (see Stovelark above). Once shown something I remember it....just need to be shown something this detailed first.  My question is what caused the bad burns from the start? Was using good pellets. Was cleaning stove daily, never went more than 48 hour period. Seals are tight.

Doesn't help if I spend the time/money to get a good clean if I keep having bad burns and clinkers.....

How much should a cleaning cost? Will they teach me to do? Also from the video on leaf blower cleaning....how much of a mess does that make outside! I have a pool/porch/kids play yard there. Also both my pipes are up at the second floor and jut from the house about 3 feet, therefore I don't know how I could attach a leaf blower with it's weight without damage to the exhaust pipe.


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## stovelark (Jan 17, 2013)

Hi battle-    Sorry hope I didn't offend you in any way going step by step.   You sounded like you would dig into it. You mentioned BOTH stoves have same issue-   lends me to think it may be an air issue, and it sounds like this has been going on all along????     If so, then maybe OAKs will help out.  Adding OAK is just extra work-  normally OAKs are piped thru the thru the wall thimble for neatness (don't have to be, separate hole lower to wall will work).  I don't think you did anything wrong operationally-  these stoves are power up, put in pellet, set heat level, adjust air damper, enjoy heat items.  Your installer and yourself should come to an amicable place to get the OAKs done.  For me I'm not a big proponent of the "leaf blower cleaning", I prefer to disassemble and clean things in as much as I can controlled atmosphere (parts and components are always dusty- 2 vacuums running during cleanups). A good cleaning will normally take 2-4 hours, depending on what you run into.  If its my first cleaning, I tend to run longer, tweaking existing state of the stove. Hopefully follow-on cleanings will be a little easier.  Cost depends on who is doing it.  I've seen 100-250 dollars, we are at about 225.  Good luck, give your dealer a chance to fix the problem.  And in all fairness, most town officials don't concern themselves about OAK thats more of an operational item I'm thinking for them, they are concerned more to safety, clearances, hearth protection etc. 

Stovelark
Enviro EF3 FS pellet
Enviro Empress FPI AC pellet
Enviro Kodiak 1700 FS wood (keeping us warm presently)


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## TLHinCanada (Jan 17, 2013)

I'm guessing you have a boiler, it depends on the age and type.  On older mid efficiency models the chimney/vent may have a no draft damper.  It is between the furnace and the chimney, when the furnace stops running a weight on the damper causes it to open and block the vent to the chimney.  If both appliances are running the pellet stove could over power the draft on the furnace and cause the no draft to close.  This would allow CO to enter the house.  There a multitude of reasons to have an OAK, you can do a search on this site and read them.  I think the general consensus would be if you want to run a pellet stove you have to expect to do some of the work yourself.  You will have to find someone to sweep your chimney or do it yourself (a lot of people use a lint eater) the brush is fairly cheap.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 17, 2013)

battlesphoto  might also have kitchen exhaust fans, bathroom exhaust fans, and gas appliances.

I just don't want battlesphoto to think that just installing OAKs is all that has to be done.

battle I went through this with my installation with just a slight twist along with a few other air flow issues, the twist was the OAK screen was too fine and blocked a lot of air.  The end result was one good pile of ash in the works and clinkers the size of my burn pot and a warped burn pot.


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## stovelark (Jan 17, 2013)

Hi Battle-   I personally haven't seen too many stoves have to have an OAK to run, but I've seen and feel that OAK will make a stove perform better, not drawing a vacuum into a room or house.  Having said that, can you open a window near the stove(s) and see if it improves???   I'm still thinking a good cleaning is in order for your two stoves. But I will say OAKs certainly won't hurt your stove, I like fresh air installs when possible. 

Stovelark
Enviro EF3 FS pellet
Enviro Empress FPI AC pellet
Enviro Kodiak 1700 FS wood


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## battlesphoto (Jan 17, 2013)

stovelark said:


> Hi Battle- I personally haven't seen too many stoves have to have an OAK to run, but I've seen and feel that OAK will make a stove perform better, not drawing a vacuum into a room or house. Having said that, can you open a window near the stove(s) and see if it improves??? I'm still thinking a good cleaning is in order for your two stoves. But I will say OAKs certainly won't hurt your stove, I like fresh air installs when possible.
> 
> Stovelark
> Enviro EF3 FS pellet
> ...


 

Tried opening a window about 5 feet away. Can't say I noticed a difference. Left is open a crack for the whole night and still awoke to a lazy flame and burn pot with 2 inches of ash. The two inches accumulated in about 9 hours.
Do you know of any good people in my neck of the woods, Putnam County NY, that would clean the two stoves at the lower end of price.  AND teach me how to myself.
I too am detailed when cleaning, using brushes in one hand and vac running in other to prevent ash getting in air and spreading around the house. I only know how to clean the firebox area and took the back wall plates off the firebox this past weekend to clean out with a vac. Stuck the vac in every nook and cranny to suck up the ash. WOW lots and lots of ash.
After watching the leaf blower technique I am not to excited as I have the kids play set, pool and porch in the area near the exhaust.
Yes I agree a cleaning is in order, but there was something that caused this to dirty up so fast and that is what needs to be fixed.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 17, 2013)

Once there is enough ash in the exhaust system you will not be able to get a decent burn going with or without an OAK or opening a window.  That is why you have to both clean the stove and install an OAK , or clean the stove and change pellets.

Both ash in the works and not enough combustion air are identical in how they present to you as a problem.

Everything in that list I posted yesterday marked with air issue show up with the same symptoms and every one of them also can cause ash build up to increase (which is in itself an air flow issue once it gets to a certain point).

As the situation progresses it will take less and less time before the pile up starts,  What took 48 hours, will become 12 hours, then maybe 6 hours, or two hours.

You can play with everything adjustment on the stove and what you feed the stove, you'll only have a very small impact on the burn and as time goes on that impact will continue to get less and less.

In order to tell if you have found any cause of a problem dealing with air flow you must make a change and completely clean the stove before testing it.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 17, 2013)

If I were close enough I'd come over and clean the stoves and check for a pile of common air flow problem causes.

I've already cleaned my stove today, baffles got removed to clean the exhaust passages leading to the combustion blower and the proof of fire system got cleaned in addition to the normal weekly heat exchanger brushing, burn pot removal and scraping, burn pot receptacle vacuumed out, ash removed from the firebox areas.

If you don't want to do a leaf blower job you can use a strong vacuum from the outside (ladder time) or if you remove the combustion blower you can use a vacuum from the inside or if you can move the stove you can disconnect the venting and brush from inside out or outside in.

Some people even remove the combustion blower (you need a new gasket on hand whenever you do this as the one that is there is fragile and frequently gets destroyed removing the motor and its mounting plate) put a cover plate over the motor mount hole and use an air compressor from inside the stove.

Ash cleaning can be very messy.

Some stoves provide easy access to the exhaust paths and venting and some are a royal pain to get everything clean. When I use the leaf blower it cleans my venting, the ash traps, and most of the ash off the combustion blower and out of the cavity the blower sits in as well as limes the lawn (all in less than 10 minutes and no mess in the house).


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## battlesphoto (Jan 17, 2013)

Minister of Fire -

Thanks for the sentiment about offering to clean and teach with the stove...but Maine to NY is a bit of a drive. I grew up in Maine and my parents used to live there until we relocated them here.
Hopefully someone closer on this forum could steer me the right way...


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## battlesphoto (Jan 18, 2013)

Looking for referral to have pellet stoves fully cleaned in Putnam County NY. Would like to be taught how to clean also.


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## PelletON (Mar 7, 2013)

I had the same problem with my GF55 - pellets quickly piling up in the burn pot, lazy flame, couldn't turn stove about 2 or 3 (out of 5) heat level.  I had the service guy from where I bought the stove come and do a full cleaning and damper calibration.  It was working properly for about 1.5 days and then the pellet starting piling up again.
It turned out to the the gasket around the ash pan.  Part of it had come loose. On his first visit, the service guy just cut away the loose part and glued the rest.  When he came back he replaced the gasket and it's been working fine for about a week.


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## stovelark (Mar 15, 2013)

Hi battle-   hope you got your problem fixed before now-  know how frustrating it is, good pellet service people knowing every stove is hard to find, a lot of people know a lot about some stoves, but the nuances are learned from working on that particular stove- and doing diagnostics from a distance is hard.  Hopefully your dealer got it straightened out for you.  I liked PelletON's suggestions above about the ash door gasket-   it got me thinking, the base to stove housing has a gasket too, that could be a possible problem, and the ash door gasketing or the door not being in the slot on the bottom of each stove is something else to check.  I've had lazy burning EF3s with the ash door not properly secured.  Did you get those stoves cleaned??  I hate to be asking so late in the game but-  when those stoves were brand new, and were first lit off, was the flame top being pushed over to the right inside the burnpot somewhat??  That would be being pushed a little to your left as you are facing the stove??  Thats my usual checkpoint that an EF2/3 is set up right on initial lightoff.  If they are cleaned well, they'll do that on the lightoffs too.  I've been away a while, hope you got all set.

Stovelark
Enviro EF3 FS pellet
Enviro Empress FPI AC
Enviro Kodiak 1700 FS wood


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