# A different 3 year plan...battling woodchucks/groundhogs



## pma1123 (May 6, 2014)

Figured I'd bring this topic up, as I'm probably not the only one who has run around like Bill Murray in caddyshack battling these things.  Looking to see if anyone has any tips on how they fought the same issue.

I live in an old farmhouse which used to be on the ragged edge of city limits, but now I have about 300' of open field/tall grass field between me and the encroaching developments.  Since these developments were previously critter habitat, having this open field surrounding me becomes a blessing and a curse.

Last year I began my battle using live traps, but had limited success actually baiting them in, and instead wound up with everything else; including a skunk 

At that point, I moved to conibear (neck) traps directly over the den exits, and had good success.  From July-Nov I rounded out the season with a total of 13 chucks, 4 of which were females.  I also learned that possum share the same den with woodchucks, as I caught a couple of those exiting the same holes.  As I would catch one, I would fill in the hole with dirt and monitor over the following days, and move the trap to another exit point.  It seemed they would retreat after seeing their buddies get trapped, and I would get no activity for a week or so.

This morning I noticed 3 new holes, which officially makes this day #1 of setting traps for this year.  I'm hoping that I'm early enough where they are hungry and lacking wisdom.  I do realize that trapping involves consistency and time, but has been the most effective means for de-populating in my situation.  As I'm in city limits, I cannot just open fire with a .22 without having problems with the law.

Also, for anyone who hasn't battled them but noticed the holes around their house or garden shed...if you think you have one or two, you probably have 30.  They're cute, and destructive...they don't go away with just a single incidence of trapping.   

Discuss...


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## 1kzwoman (May 6, 2014)

How much water do you have available? Flooding holes completely, until all tunnels run water will work. May have to repeat it a few times.
Grain baits dropped in holes also work.
Your looking at eliminating basics, food, shelter,safety.


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## pma1123 (May 6, 2014)

Thumbs up!  I probably need more GPM than the garden hoses would provide, but maybe 55 gallon drums would work?

Can I get grain baits at TSC or a local supplier?

I've also tried the rodent smoke bombs from TSC, but it only toys with their emotions.  I do believe their dens can be up to 30' deep so smoke has to drop a long ways to get into the den area. 

For food sources, I have grass with clover growing in it, and an old apple tree in the front yard that I'm strongly considering either cutting it down, or doing an extreme pruning job to limit the area where apples drop.  Currently I don't have apples, but by July they will be a reality.   Can anybody suggest a way to get rid of the clover?


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## Jags (May 6, 2014)

24D will take out clover if mixed heavy enough.

There may be a tip or two to help in your quest here:
http://www.veggiegardeningtips.com/how-to-quickly-easily-trap-nuisance-groundhogs/


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## 1kzwoman (May 6, 2014)

Just mowing may discouraged both guests and clover


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## Adios Pantalones (May 6, 2014)

What specifically are you trying to keep them out of?


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## Adios Pantalones (May 6, 2014)

I wish I could just take the clover- it only became a weed when weed killer manufacturers found out their products killed it. I plant a little every year


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## BrotherBart (May 6, 2014)

There was a time when clover was what is called a lawn.


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## Adios Pantalones (May 6, 2014)

BrotherBart said:


> There was a time when clover was what is called a lawn.


It was a seed normally added to grass mix before it came on the wrong side of marketing.


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## BrotherBart (May 6, 2014)

"Roll me over in the Fescue and do it again." just has never had that same je ne sais quoi.


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## Adios Pantalones (May 6, 2014)

BrotherBart said:


> "Roll me over in the Fescue and do it again." just has never had that same je ne sais quoi.


When the long day was over, we'd flattened the clover- she was drunker than I was (Big Bad Bollocks)


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## BrotherBart (May 6, 2014)

I used to have problems with them under the slab front porch. Since Michelle the Woodpile Panther cat has come on the scene they are history along with mice. She is thrilled to find something smaller than her. When I let her out in the morning she makes a complete round around the house on the hunt and then comes in for breakfast if she doesn't score.


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## firefighterjake (May 6, 2014)

BrotherBart said:


> There was a time when clover was what is called a lawn.



For me . . . clover is still a large part of my lawn. I'm too cheap and lazy to actually plant grass or lay down grass sod.


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## BrotherBart (May 6, 2014)

firefighterjake said:


> For me . . . clover is still a large part of my lawn. I'm too cheap and lazy to actually plant grass or lay down grass sod.



Kinda like when we all moved in around here 30 years ago. Every weekend with tons of seed, fertilizer and lime. Now we all figure weeds are just as green and just mow'em.


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## Adios Pantalones (May 7, 2014)

BrotherBart said:


> Kinda like when we all moved in around here 30 years ago. Every weekend with tons of seed, fertilizer and lime. Now we all figure weeds are just as green and just mow'em.


I refer to it as my "New Hampshire lawn". When I had the house rabbits, I would just go pick them a salad from the lawn many nights


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## JustWood (May 7, 2014)

I've had luck dumping cat litter down there holes and its a good way to make that shat disappear and fill in a hole at the same time. That stuff just doesn't dissolve fast even when spread in the woods/field.
Doesn't eliminate the problem but keeps them from denning there.


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## AK13 (May 7, 2014)

I have the groundhogs come back every year and reopen dens under the slab in my barn. I've mostly done live traps, but it is a pain and then I have to release them. I caught a possum last year too. They are ugly but they are sweet docile animals unlike those nasty chucks. For live trapping you can't beat cantaloupe. They love it.  

What I want to do this year is try gassing them out with vehicle exhaust. Clamp a hose around my lawnmower, truck or other small engine and run the hose down to the hole. The problem is that i can't figure out what to use to connect to the exhaust that is close enough to the right size and won't melt to the tailpipe.

I don't want to use the smoke bombs because they are a fire hazard and this is in a dry barn with too many woodchips around. Its actually my woodshed/barn so plenty of combustibles


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## pma1123 (May 7, 2014)

Thanks for the feedback!  Right now I'm specifically battling 3 holes that popped up in the mulch area near my front porch step.  I'm sure they have a den under the slab, as I've filled holes here last year after removing several chucks with the traps mentioned above.  After yesterday, I'm pleased to report I'm +1, woodchucks 0.     But there are many, many more holes in the surrounding fields and getting the stuff close to the house/outbuildings is my focus.  
As for the clover, my lawn is much like everyone else mentions...a mix of everything.  Not sure its worth even trying to get rid of the clover; I don't care about having the greenest lawn in the neighborhood.   I was just looking at ways to eliminate the basics....(food safety shelter).


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## bassJAM (May 7, 2014)

Sounds like the traps are working for you.  I have a den under my detached garage.  I tried baiting a hav-a-hart trap with cantaloupe, but somehow they'd manage to eat the fruit and never got trapped.  I grew up using that same trap catching coons, skunks, and possums out of my parents barn so I know I set it right.  I watched one sit at the very edge of the trap, reach in and grab the fruit, and them just back out when the trap-door fell on his back.  I would have never imagined a ground hog was smart enough to outsmart a trap like that!  I ended up just taking 5 of them with a .22, and they are already back this year.

I know you said you can't use a .22, but what about a pellet gun?  Some of those break action ones are about the same power of a .22.


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## tigger (May 7, 2014)

A buddy of mine used a 55 gallon drum half filled with water.  He had a ramp to the top and put some dog food up the ramp and floated some on the surface.  They would walk up the ramp and jump in to get it and then drown.  Its a little cruel, but it worked.  He would go out each day and fish the dead one out and then set some more bait.


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## AK13 (May 7, 2014)

tigger said:


> A buddy of mine used a 55 gallon drum half filled with water.  He had a ramp to the top and put some dog food up the ramp and floated some on the surface.  They would walk up the ramp and jump in to get it and then drown.  Its a little cruel, but it worked.  He would go out each day and fish the dead one out and then set some more bait.



I was advised by a friend that I should just drown them in the cage after trapping. But it seems to cruel to drown a caged animal. Then I'd have to fish the dead one out of the cage and bury it. Yuck. 

That is why I like the idea of gassing them myself. Wait until they are in the den at dusk and just fill it up with carbon monoxide and then bury them in there. If the holes stay closed then you know you got them.


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## Ashful (May 7, 2014)

Get a dog.  The PO of this house had endless problems with all of the above. Once our dogs moved in, the critters found a quieter place to live (probably under our neighbors porches!).


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## peakbagger (May 7, 2014)

We used to live in a city with our property next to a large wild parcel. Woodchucks were a major issue. We picked up a cheap 22 and some 22 rounds that disintegrate when they hit something so no issue with ricochets, I usually just opened a window and fired from a bedroom. In the spring we would usually have two adults and a bunch of smaller ones. We got a new neighbor next door that moved in with his elderly parents. The parents were concentration camp survivors from WW2. They apparently didn't like us shooting the woodchucks and their son asked us politely to stop so we did. Our garden was pretty well fenced in and I had knocked out the spring generation so we figured we would take a year off. The neighbors parents started a garden and very soon the woodchucks found it, a few weeks later the son dropped by and told us his parents decided we could shoot the woodchucks.

I seem to remember a gardening book that said if a woodchuck eats your dinner, have him for dinner. I haven't taken the advice.


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## bassJAM (May 7, 2014)

peakbagger said:


> I seem to remember a gardening book that said if a woodchuck eats your dinner, have him for dinner. I haven't taken the advice.



I actually dressed a young ground hog last summer, and brought him in and put him in some brine for a few hours with the intention of frying him up that evening.  But somebody called me to go meet them for wings and beer that evening, and I ended up just throwing away the meat.


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## pma1123 (May 7, 2014)

Glad I inquired on this topic; several people have experience here!
The comments from BassJam about live traps had me laughing.  Several times I came home to a 'trap malfunction', or perhaps a wise woodchuck got the bait without the trap successfully capturing.
With the conibear traps I'm currently using, it presents its own set of considerations.  I don't use bait; I am counting on the animals choosing that hole to exit the den. Right now anything that decides to pass through that hole is dead in an instant.  This could potentially include cats and dogs who decide to poke their face in the hole, which hasn't been a problem yet but would be a big one if it did happen.  So even though the conibear traps always work, I'd like to stray away from the inherent dangers.  Last year I resorted to building wooden boxes with mesh to house the trap but still provide outside view as the critters exit the den.  I had OK results with this, but it was a bit of a deterrent in the areas I had been trapping.  

On the bright side, I guess I'm not slinging a soaking wet/bloated dead critter.    Bad enough dealing with the dry ones!!

I do have a weiner dog which by nature is a ground-animal hunter, but I doubt his ability to actually get my dirty work done 
I need a lab or something with a strong prey drive that is willing to shake things up a bit.
That will be a reality for me, I just need to get through puppyhood on #1 before I jump into #2.

For shooting, I could get away with a pellet gun no problem.  You must be referring to the break-action style with 1000fps?

I haven't had any woodchucks mess with my barn yet, but I did have one go into my garage which has a very cracked concrete floor, and proceed to remove concrete chunks from the floor and create tunnels under the garage slab.  This also meant whatever gravel was displaced while making tunnels, was now in the garage. (100lbs+)  This all happened within 24 hours, it was crazy to see how fast they can make a mess like this.   Every time I set a tool on the floor or slam jackstands around, I am reminded that many areas below the floor are now hollow.  I have since eliminated the offending chucks in the garage, with no signs of return.  (yet)


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## AK13 (May 7, 2014)

bassJAM said:


> I know you said you can't use a .22, but what about a pellet gun?  Some of those break action ones are about the same power of a .22.



I wonder if a pellet done would get it done. I think they have very thick hides. 

The main issue that I have with them besides not wanting them living in my barn is that they get into my FENCED garden. It took me a while to figure it out, but the fencing is 2"x4" and the juvenile groundhogs can fit their heads through and crawl right through.

By the way, my best ground hog story is the time I got home and found one in my fenced garden. I took off full speed towards the garden. He saw me and went to squeeze back through the fence at the back of the garden. He popped through right as I made it around back. So it was basically pinned with me in front of him and the fence behind. I took a couple steps back and picked up a big rock. When I went for the rock he made his move. I managed to anticipate his speed and direction and landed the rock right on top of him (it was a small boulder so more of a heave than a throw). Took one more bigger rock to finish the job. I was surprised at the adrenaline rush from the whole encounter. Took a glass of bourbon to level me out.


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## pma1123 (May 7, 2014)

I bet that encounter was quite a rush!!  I've been very close to these things several times, unarmed for that split second I get to experience this... 

I have a similar story with throwing a hammer, because it was the closest thing I could grab as I caught a glimpse through the window and sprung up from eating a bowl of cereal. 
I threw the (16oz Estwing) hammer overhand from ~10ft and landed a direct hit, heard a squeak, and it scurried down the hole. 
No casualty; they're tougher than they look!


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## bassJAM (May 7, 2014)

AK13 said:


> I wonder if a pellet done would get it done. I think they have very thick hides.



If you got a .22 cal air rifle that was pushing around 1000 fps, I think it'd do the job at close to medium ranges.  And I'm not sure what the gun laws are where you live, but a CB round is whisper quiet out of a .22 rifle.  Subsonic rounds are pretty quiet too.  Either way, head shots are what you want.

I once took a groundhog at close to 200 yards with my .22 rifle, but it just paralyzed it's hind legs.  I had to sprint up to him before he dragged himself back to his hole to put a round through his head.


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## splitoak (May 8, 2014)

Any modern .22 cal of your choice...


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## Jags (May 8, 2014)

pma1123 said:


> As I'm in city limits, I cannot just open fire with a .22 without having problems with the law.



As the OP clearly stated, guns are not an option.


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## mustash29 (May 8, 2014)




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## mustash29 (May 8, 2014)




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## peakbagger (May 8, 2014)

I do have a friend that uses a crossbow to take them out.


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## bobdog2o02 (May 8, 2014)

I have the luxury of best neighbors and a great backstop.  If you want a dog that wants to hunt get an American bulldog.  I have a2yr old female, at a dog show had her run the 100yd sprint.  Clocked at 6.9 seconds.  

Anyway, this dog caught a ground hog and shook it to pieces.  Worries me because slot of the ground hogs,possums, coons etc in our area are carrying rabies........  If my dog would chase it I shoot it.


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## bassJAM (May 8, 2014)

bobdog2o02 said:


> I have the luxury of best neighbors and a great backstop.  If you want a dog that wants to hunt get an American bulldog.  I have a2yr old female, at a dog show had her run the 100yd sprint.  Clocked at 6.9 seconds.
> 
> Anyway, this dog caught a ground hog and shook it to pieces.  Worries me because slot of the ground hogs,possums, coons etc in our area are carrying rabies........  If my dog would chase it I shoot it.



When I was a teenager, around 14 or so, I went fishing back at the river behind my parents and took along my Golden Retriever since he liked to stand in the water next to me as I fished.  Along the way I saw a groundhog sitting upright at the edge of the field with it's whole body mildly shaking in a Muhammad Ali sort of way.  I saw it from about 50 yards away, and it never budged as I got closer.  By the time I was 15 feet away, my dog finally saw it (I think high weeds blocked his vision until then).  The hair on his back stood up and he ran up and behind it, picked it up by the scruff of it's neck and shook it violently.  Then he dropped it and walked back to me.  He didn't even sniff it after he killed it.

This was a dog that to my knowledge never killed anything else, but he loved to chew on and roll on any dead animal he found.  He somehow knew that groundhog had either rabies or distemper though.


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## Ashful (May 8, 2014)

bass, my dogs are just miniature pinschers, a close relative to your weiner dog (mini pin's are half dachshund, half italian greyhound).  They're ferocious little buggers (think little man syndrome), but no matter.  The groundhogs and other varmint are more turned off by the fact that there's some noisy and nosy creature coming 'round all day, than how big or dangerous the dog really is.  They'll move on to quieter pastures, even if your dog is less than entirely athletic.


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## Seasoned Oak (May 8, 2014)

Pellet guns do work. It may not kill them outright but they will get lead poisioning within 24 hrs Usually die in their holes. Iv trapped them too. But like others said then comes  the unpleasant work of killing and dumping.(dispense with a 22 then into the garbage can) Once i smoked one out with break fluid and chlorine powder which prodeces a thick acrid smoke and then burst into flames.I actually gave up gardening cuz i got tired of defending my turf.  Iv got one right now and he has to go as my tropical lime trees will be outside this summer. Not sure if i will use the trap or the pellet gun or the brake fluid.


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## lobsta1 (May 9, 2014)

I used to have a problem with chucks under the wood pile & corner of the block garage. Tried everything I could with no luck. Finally took 2 lbs. of cayenne pepper & poured it down 2" pvc pipe into the den. Then I hooked up my leaf blower & blew the pepper around underground. Finally followed that up with a gallon of muriatic acid down the pvc & the leaf blower again. They haven't come back since that assault.
Al


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## NitroDave (May 11, 2014)

Fly bait, coca-cola, and a bowl....typically find them dead with their head still in the bowl.


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## bobdog2o02 (May 11, 2014)

NitroDave said:


> Fly bait, coca-cola, and a bowl....typically find them dead with their head still in the bowl.



And it will kill your neighbors pets too, and maybe your pets, and your toddler grandkids

WTF man.


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## NitroDave (May 11, 2014)

bobdog2o02 said:


> And it will kill your neighbors pets too, and maybe your pets, and your toddler grandkids
> 
> WTF man.


You could get a paper cut that could turn into a staff infection too...

Put the bait where others are not going to get into it.... Been doing this way in the country for over 50 years... And no dead children.....


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## bobdog2o02 (May 11, 2014)

NitroDave said:


> You could get a paper cut that could turn into a staff infection too...
> 
> Put the bait where others are not going to get into it.... Been doing this way in the country for over 50 years... And no dead children.....


My grandpa used to use antifreeze with the same effect.  I just remember anything with red blood would drink it and die.


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## EatenByLimestone (May 12, 2014)

I've used cages, foot holds and conis.  I like the conis the best when I can use one.  With a foothold you still have an angry woodchuck to deal with.  Pellet guns will work, some of the new ones are just as powerful as a .22LR.  It's still a firearm and many towns don't like you discharging them within the community though.  

Keep all dogs away from the conis.  You don't need the bad PR from catching one in a 220 sized trap.


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## blades (May 13, 2014)

To pma123. really hate to tell you this, but under WI state law for some insane reason the freickin woodchucks are protected, classified with badgers. I do not know what idiot group got the woodchuck/groundhog deal slid in there but this happen some 20 years ago. Only exception is on farms when there borrows cause a problem for cattle. With some digging you can find info on the DNR sight, they are not listed on  threatened or endangered species lists though. Other than that I have eradicated them over the years with just about anything at hand. To me they are a 1/2 step above rabbits as far as my garden goes and several steps below ants of any kind near any structure. As far as the DNR is concerned in this they can kiss my ........ !


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## bag of hammers (May 13, 2014)

A couple of years ago we had one woodchuck show up - first one I've ever seen out our way (@ 15 years).  The dog went crazy - kept it up in the tree for quite a while.  When it finally had it's chance, it took off never to be seen again.  Luckily there are hundreds of acres of bush around so it had lots of alternate places to hang out without a big dog to chase it.    Not even sure why it decided to show up at our place (no lawn, no garden, etc.).  Porcupines + dogs - been there, that's a whole other story....


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## Jags (May 13, 2014)

Huh - woodchucks can climb trees.  Who knew?


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## bag of hammers (May 13, 2014)

_Despite their heavy-bodied appearance, groundhogs are accomplished swimmers and excellent tree climbers when escaping predators or when they want to survey their surroundings.[8] They prefer to retreat to their burrows when threatened_

I am looking for the pic now, might be on my wife camera...


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## bag of hammers (May 13, 2014)

Also has some other interesting nicknames ("land-beaver" ....)
_The *groundhog* (Marmota monax), also known as a *woodchuck*, *whistle-pig*, or *land-beaver* in some areas, is a rodent of the family Sciuridae, belonging to the group of large ground squirrels known as marmots_

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groundhog


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## Jags (May 13, 2014)

I saw that same quote.  Had to look it up.  I have had chucks cornered by my dog against a tree.  Never saw one climb though.


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## bag of hammers (May 13, 2014)

Me either.  Maybe they just especially don't like Newf's  

It was in no hurry to come back down, for sure...


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## Ashful (May 13, 2014)

My two 10 and 15 lb. miniature pinschers had one up in a tree a few years back.  He was a big boy, too... probably weighed more than both dogs combined.  He was definitely frightened by them.


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## bobdog2o02 (May 13, 2014)

Shot one out of a tree last week with a .17HMR.  he was maybe 6 feet up during on a branch like a squirrel.  My bulldog chased him up there and he was barely safe at that height.....


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