# Chains dulling VERY quickly



## awfarmington (Sep 23, 2014)

Here the issue: Our chains are dulling much too fast. Maybe 8 or so large cuts and we have to change it. We had a large old maple come down this summer, and working on the thickest part of the tree now. Our chain saw is a Poulan (sp?) 18". We have had to buy 5 chains that we rotate through in a day and then have to get sharpened at $3 each. It's becoming quite expensive! 

Is it the chain saw (being junk)? 

Or us using it wrong? 

Second related question. We will buying a new chain saw next season. Any recommendations for something that can handle tough jobs??


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## Jon1270 (Sep 23, 2014)

First thing I'd look for is oiling problems.  Is the saw consuming most of a tank of oil with each tank of gas?  If you rev the saw with the bar pointed at a clean surface of some sort, does it spatter a trail of oil droplets onto that surface?

There are, of course, all sorts of excellent saws available.  We'll need to know more about your needs (and budget) to recommend anything specific.


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## TMonter (Sep 23, 2014)

awfarmington said:


> Here the issue: Our chains are dulling much too fast. Maybe 8 or so large cuts and we have to change it. We had a large old maple come down this summer, and working on the thickest part of the tree now. Our chain saw is a Poulan (sp?) 18". We have had to buy 5 chains that we rotate through in a day and then have to get sharpened at $3 each. It's becoming quite expensive!
> 
> Is it the chain saw (being junk)?
> 
> ...



What kind of chain are you using?


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## TreePointer (Sep 23, 2014)

Lower parts of old trees and especially the sections that are in reach of humans can have surprises in them that will dull a chain more quickly than usual.

1. Man made junk: nails, screws, staples, climbing spikes, etc.
2. Bark can take on sand and other gritty materials over the years.

Sharpen your own chains:
1. Learn the pitch of your chain
2. Buy a round file and file guide that matches your pitch. Since your saw is Poulan and comes with Oregon made chain, get the Oregon/Husqvarna file guide that matches your chain pitch.
3. Clamp bar in banch vise with powerhead still attached.  Clamp at point along length of bar that produces fewest vibrations during the filing stroke.
4. File away!  It gets a lot easier after your first chain.

See video:


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## awfarmington (Sep 23, 2014)

This is the chain 

http://reviews.homedepot.com/1999/1...-saws-2-pack-discontinued-reviews/reviews.htm

Our budget will be under $6/700ish. Our needs will be cutting bigger downed trees all the way down to thick branches. 

Tree pointer, thank you for the video! My son handles the maintenance of the chainsaw, so I will have him watch it.


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## awfarmington (Sep 23, 2014)

Forgot to add, it takes a lot of bar oil. Maybe even more than gas and drips. 

Also, we have been carefully watching for stray nails and other metal pieces, so far so good. The tree was in an out of the way spot so I think it avoided tree forts, clothes lines, etc.


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## TMonter (Sep 23, 2014)

awfarmington said:


> Forgot to add, it takes a lot of bar oil. Maybe even more than gas and drips.
> 
> Also, we have been carefully watching for stray nails and other metal pieces, so far so good. The tree was in an out of the way spot so I think it avoided tree forts, clothes lines, etc.



My advice, start by not buying your chain from home depot and going to a local saw shop and buying a loop of high-quality chain from Oregon, Stihl or Windsor. Ask for something that isn't "safety" chain (low kickback may be unavoidable depending on your chain type).

It looks like 3/8 pitch chain so any reputable saw shop should carry it. If it is 3/8 chain you can file the chain with a good file and file guide yourself. Oregon calls for 7/32" files for 3/8" chain.


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## highanddryinco (Sep 23, 2014)

Number one thing that comes to mind and most likely the cause from what you've said so far...Are you touching the ground with the chain at all while making your cuts? That will ruin a sharp chain almost instantly.


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## awfarmington (Sep 23, 2014)

Tmonster, can those chains also be found online (like amazon or ebay)?

Highanddryinco... Yes, we have!  The tree base is on the ground and almost always hits the ground when I finally get through. How does one avoid that with a tree too heavy to move? I'm a beginner this year, hopefully I can avoid the same mistakes next year.


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## TMonter (Sep 23, 2014)

Check Baileys as well but yes I think they can be found on ebay and amazon. You can always talk to a live person at Baileys for some help getting the correct chain.

http://www.baileysonline.com/

I believe this is where you need to be on the website:

http://www.baileysonline.com/Chains...ofile-x-050-Gauge/Semi-Chisel-Chainsaw-Chain/

From your other post it's an 18" bar correct? That would be 62 drive links from what I see.


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## awfarmington (Sep 23, 2014)

TMonter said:


> Check Baileys as well but yes I think they can be found on ebay and amazon. You can always talk to a live person at Baileys for some help getting the correct chain.
> 
> http://www.baileysonline.com/



Thank you, I will check there for an extra chain to get us through till we are done for the season.  We have about 2.5 cords so far, hoping to get 2 more cut before the snow comes!

Yes, it is 62.


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## TMonter (Sep 24, 2014)

awfarmington said:


> Thank you, I will check there for an extra chain to get us through till we are done for the season.  We have about 2.5 cords so far, hoping to get 2 more cut before the snow comes!
> 
> Yes, it is 62.



You're welcome. Lots of people here file by hand I prefer something that is a little more precise and have found that with some practice I can use this to get my chains as sharp as a fresh grind from the saw shop.

http://www.baileysonline.com/Forest...nberg-File-N-Joint-Precision-Filing-Guide.axd

You'll be amazed what a good quality chain will do for your saw.


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## awfarmington (Sep 24, 2014)

TMonter said:


> Your welcome. Lots of people here file by hand I prefer something that is a little more precise and have found that with some practice I can use this to get my chains as sharp as a fresh grind from the saw shop.
> 
> http://www.baileysonline.com/Forest...nberg-File-N-Joint-Precision-Filing-Guide.axd
> 
> You'll be amazed what a good quality chain will do for your saw.



Can't wait to use a better chain, while avoiding the dirt (now I know ), will be nice to get more than 30 mins of work time.


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## highanddryinco (Sep 24, 2014)

First of all, given your situation being a beginner and probably an occasional user, get your chains sharpened and you 'll be fine even with the cheaper ones. By all means, stay with the safety chain. Don't step up to the yellow marked chains until you get some time under your belt.
Hopefully you can find one or two parts of the log that are not tight to the ground. Make your first cuts there to get the logs into more manageable sizes, maybe 10' long or so. Once you get there, cut those sections into firewood length pieces by cutting only about 3/4 of the way through logs every 16" - 22". Now roll that 10' log a little to get the remaining attaching wood facing up and the saw cuts that you just made facing down. Now simply go along and cut those little connectors and your chain will never even come close to the ground. That's the Reader's Digest version.


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## TMonter (Sep 24, 2014)

awfarmington said:


> Can't wait to use a better chain, while avoiding the dirt (now I know ), will be nice to get more than 30 mins of work time.



You do have safety gear right? (Helmet/Face shield, Chaps, Steel Toed Boots?)


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## TreePointer (Sep 24, 2014)

awfarmington said:


> This is the chain
> 
> http://reviews.homedepot.com/1999/1...-saws-2-pack-discontinued-reviews/reviews.htm



That is low quality China chain.  Low quality means it will stretch, dull faster (softer metal) and be more likely to snap.  Oregon or Stihl (available at Stihl dealers) chain would be my recommendation.  BTW, Husqvarna branded chain is made by Oregon.

To get a chain to match a saw and bar, you need to know it's *PITCH*, *GAUGE*, and Number of Drive Links (*DL*).  All of this information should be stamped on the bar near where it attaches to the saw.  If you aren't sure, take your saw (or just your bar with the info stamped on it) to a local Husqvarna or Stihl dealer, as mentioned.

If you wish to buy a filing kit (round file, file guide, flat file), purchase one that matches the chain's pitch and one that's from the same manufacturer of the chain.


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## TreePointer (Sep 24, 2014)

If you need to roll a large/heavy log to cut on the other side, a peavey, cant hook, or timberjack/logjack often is used.  They are all essentially a lever that hooks into the wood to make rolling a log much easier.

Just don't buy the least expensive all steel handled model from your local big box store or farm store (Tractor Supply, Menards, Farm & Fleet, etc.).  It will fail too soon.


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## highanddryinco (Sep 24, 2014)

Like TMonter said...Make sure you get that safety gear!
Take your time. There's also a lot of good information on making basic saw cuts at various places on the internet. Lots of good stuff on YouTube but stick with the stuff put out by saw manufacturer's like Stihl and Husqvarna or by various forest agencies and universities. There's a lot of "Joe Bobs" that post how-to videos that you should steer clear of.


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## TreePointer (Sep 24, 2014)

awfarmington said:


> Forgot to add, it takes a lot of bar oil. Maybe even more than gas and drips.



This is expected.  The low end chainsaws like the your Poulan are known to be "messy" with oil.  They put out oil any time the saw is running.  Higher quality saws will have an oiler gear that is activated ONLY when the chain is moving; and therefore, are less prone to be "messy." 

I keep my messy saws on one of those plastic trays for snowy/muddy boots.


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## TreePointer (Sep 24, 2014)

Another tip to keep the saw out of the dirt when cutting trunks and larger logs is to plan a few cuts ahead before making your first cut.  That is, if the log will touch the ground after your cut, put other logs or branches under it in strategic spots before making that first cut.  This will keep the wood off the ground (elevated on those other logs and branches) after your cut.  Then you can make successive cuts off the ground.

My concern is if you are asking about technique for cutting larger wood off the ground, you are fairly new to cutting, and there are a lot of forces at play that can get you in trouble.  Kickback, push, pull, tension, compression, spring poles, hillside cutting, stump cutting, bar pinching, notch, hinge, holding wood, back cut, widow maker, barber chair, bore/plunge cutting are terms you should get to know.  I highly recommend watching all the Stihl chainsaw videos if you haven't already done so.  They cover just about everything a n00b needs to know.

Watch online here:
http://www.stihlusa.com/information/videos/#chain-saw-safety-ope


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## firefighterjake (Sep 24, 2014)

awfarmington said:


> Tmonster, can those chains also be found online (like amazon or ebay)?
> 
> Highanddryinco... Yes, we have!  The tree base is on the ground and almost always hits the ground when I finally get through. How does one avoid that with a tree too heavy to move? I'm a beginner this year, hopefully I can avoid the same mistakes next year.




And we have a winner with Highanddryinco  ... this is THE Reason (caps were intentional) why your chain is dulling so quickly. As others have said ... with practice you will learn how to cut part way through and then roll the log ... some folks like a peavey for this purpose. Keeping the chains out of the dirt will make a huge diference in how fast they dull.


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## Chimney Smoke (Sep 24, 2014)

awfarmington said:


> Tmonster, can those chains also be found online (like amazon or ebay)?
> 
> Highanddryinco... Yes, we have!  The tree base is on the ground and almost always hits the ground when I finally get through. How does one avoid that with a tree too heavy to move? I'm a beginner this year, hopefully I can avoid the same mistakes next year.



There's the answer right there.  No matter what the chain is and what saw you're using running it into the ground dulls chains very quickly.


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## Bigg_Redd (Sep 24, 2014)

awfarmington said:


> Here the issue: Our chains are dulling much too fast. Maybe 8 or so large cuts and we have to change it. We had a large old maple come down this summer, and working on the thickest part of the tree now. Our chain saw is a Poulan (sp?) 18". We have had to buy 5 chains that we rotate through in a day and then have to get sharpened at $3 each. It's becoming quite expensive!
> 
> Is it the chain saw (being junk)?
> 
> ...



Things that can quickly dull a chain: dirt, grit, sand, rocks, metal

Things that cannot dull a chain: any other part of the saw

Things that make your chain seem like it has dulled quickly: chain is loose, bar is way out of true.  These two conditions cause the chain to lean over and cut at an odd angle.  It feels just like a dull chain and makes powder that looks just like dull chain.


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## awfarmington (Sep 24, 2014)

I will plead the 5th on what safety gear I wear, or lack there of. Admittedly, I could be doing much more.

I've ready all the replies and the key points seem to be avoid the ground, get better quality chains, work on cutting techniques and do my homework.,.


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## Ashful (Sep 24, 2014)

Re:  hitting the ground...

When you fell a tree, do it at a comfortable height above the buttress roots, perhaps 18" - 24" above the ground.  If you must flush it to the ground, save that final flush cut for the end of the day, as it will toast your chain.  When bucking a log on the ground, mark off your lengths, then cut 80% of the way thru from one side of the log.  Get yourself a cant hook so you can roll the log over to finish all of the cuts (last 20%) from the other side, without hitting the ground.  You can roll a mighty big log with a 60" LogRite cant hook.

Re:  chain...

Most here prefer Stihl RS / RSC-33 chain.  It's a great all-purpose full-chisel chain.  Carlton, Husqvarna, and Oregon all sell an equivalent to this chain, but the Stihl RS is so ubiquitous that you can just ask for "that or equivalent," at most saw shops.  Bailey's is a good option, too, but not the cheapest.

Re:  new saw...

A better saw will make your hands and back happier, with more HP to weight ratio and better anti-vibe, but will not affect how quickly your chains dull.  If your current saw appears to have a bar oiling problem, check the bar channels for blockage, as it sounds like your saw is pumping oil somewhere.

Re:  safety gear...

Leg contact injuries happen 4x - 5x more frequently than face / head contact injuries.  If you're felling trees, you need a helmet with face shield, but if you're bucking firewood on the ground... buy chaps first!


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## Highbeam (Sep 24, 2014)

I used a poulan for many years. Cheap, disposable, don't fix it when you run it over or break it somehow just buy another if it fails. Honestly, with a sharp chain, that poulan was very decent. It was also very quiet and started dependably. Sure, there are higher quality saws and I now own one but there is no reason to throw away a functional poulan.

I wear ear muffs and leather shoes. No other safety gear. I've also been known to ride a bicycle without a helmet but always wear a seatbelt in the truck and a helmet when on the motorcycle. I just don't feel the risks are that high with a chainsaw. You may choose to be all geared up like some sort of robot and that is fine too. The huge majority of firewood cutters don't even protect their ears.

Until recently I didn't have a log rolling tool. I would cut through 3/4 and then stop sawing, roll the whole log using lots of grunts and my little muscles, and then cut through on top. Rather than 3/4 of the way through you can also cut until you just start to see the top of the cut coming together. The idea is to keep your saw out of the dirt, save your back from bending, and not pinch your bar in the cut.


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## Ashful (Sep 24, 2014)

I also do 90% of my processing with no PPE, but I wouldn't be quick to advise others to do it.  I've just been lucky.  I've seen too many people (many here) very experienced and knowledgeable on proper use of a chainsaw, have unfortunate accidents or a momentary lapse of vigilance.

I do always gear up when going out into the woods for a full day of felling and bucking.  It's those countless, "let me just run out for an hour and process some rounds," sessions where I don't do as I should.


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## dougand3 (Sep 24, 2014)

Here is another way to check your chain fitment: 

http://www.oregonproducts.com/pro/lookups/selguide.aspx?BusId=OCS&SellReg=USA&LangId=ENG


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## JP11 (Sep 24, 2014)

Under a hundred bucks for a pair of chainsaw chaps.  your deductible for the ER visit is probably 250.

Chainsaw shop stocks all kinds of protective gear.  Never have seen an arm or a leg on sale there though.

JP


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## Bigg_Redd (Sep 24, 2014)

I wear ears and eyes when cutting.  I wear boots and gloves too but those will avail me nothing should they make contact with the spinning chain on the legendary Stihl MS440 Magnum.  

The few times I've worn chaps they are very hot, very fatiguing, and very awkward - all of which poses other, more serious safety risks than those the chaps were meant to prevent.


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## awfarmington (Sep 24, 2014)

A lot of varying opinions! 

I've decided to order the protective gear, mainly because my 17 year old helps a lot with cutting the trees. Personally, I will stop wearing my shorts and flip flops, but can't see totally suiting up.

I already have an amazon giftcard, so would like to get a chain there if possible. Opinions on this Oregon one? 

http://www.amazon.com/Oregon-S62-18...608110&sr=1-2&keywords=oregon+chainsaw+chains


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## TreePointer (Sep 24, 2014)

This is what I wear every time, even in summer:

Earmuffs
Safety glasses
Gloves
Chaps
Steel toe boots

When dropping trees, I wear a forestry helmet with a metal mesh shield.  I'll wear the same safety glasses under the shield.

Current favorites:

3M Peltor H10A Optime 105 Earmuff  (very comfy, 30 db NRR)
Impact Resistant Safety Glasses  (inexpensive, but up to standards)
Labonville Full-wrap chaps, 6-ply (read and follow measuring instructions)
Stihl antivibration gloves


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## JP11 (Sep 24, 2014)

Full wrap chaps.. they take a bit longer to put on, but wear like pants.

Yes.. they are hot.  I have a great disability policy at work.. but it's still capped a salary that's about half of normal.  Not interested in trying it out unnecessarily!

JP


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## TreePointer (Sep 24, 2014)

awfarmington said:


> I already have an amazon giftcard, so would like to get a chain there if possible. Opinions on this Oregon one?
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Oregon-S62-18-Inch-Craftsman-Homelite/dp/B00004RA81/ref=sr_1_2?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1411608110&sr=1-2&keywords=oregon chainsaw chains



That chain is 3/8LP pitch, .050 gauge, and has 62 drive links.  It is likely the same chain that came with the saw, so it will be no improvement over the original chain.  If you tell us the saw's model number, we can confirm that it is the proper chain for the saw and give you more options.

Note that 3/8LP (low profile) pitch is not the same as 3/8 pitch.  They are not interchangeable. 3/8LP pitch chains sharpen with a 5/32 round file.  3/8 pitch chain sharpens with a 7/32 (or sometimes 13/64) round file.


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## awfarmington (Sep 24, 2014)

*Model # PP4218AVX* is what we have right now.


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## highanddryinco (Sep 24, 2014)

awfarmington said:


> A lot of varying opinions!
> 
> I've decided to order the protective gear, mainly because my 17 year old helps a lot with cutting the trees. Personally, I will stop wearing my shorts and flip flops, but can't see totally suiting up.
> 
> ...



Excellent choice. And yes, you'll certainly get opinions here that run the gamut but notice the ratio of the ones promoting safety gear to those that aren't. I can't believe no one has yet posted the link to the chainsaw injury photo pages. It'll help reinforce your decision to wear the stuff.
I'm as guilty as anyone about thinking I can do (and occasionally doing) those few cuts without the gear but then when I look at my chaps sitting in the truck and see the few little pick holes in them from where a chain coasting to a stop has lightly touched them over the years, I realize each of those tiny little holes would likely have been trip to the ER and how foolish I was.


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## TreePointer (Sep 24, 2014)

Poulan 4218AVX  (42cc engine, 18" bar)

You can run a chain from any maker (Stihl, Husqvarna, Oregon, Windsor, etc.) that matches the following criteria:

Pitch = 3/8LP
Gauge = .050
DL = 62

That Oregon S62 chain is compatible according to the Oregon chain selector webpage.  

One thing to note is that some retailers that sell everything and don't specialize in chainsaws or outdoor power equipment sometimes confuse 3/8 and 3/8LP pitches in their product pages.


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## awfarmington (Sep 25, 2014)

TreePointer said:


> Poulan 4218AVX  (42cc engine, 18" bar)
> 
> You can run a chain from any maker (Stihl, Husqvarna, Oregon, Windsor, etc.) that matches the following criteria:
> 
> ...



What is the advantage or disadvantage to the LP chains?


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## Danno77 (Sep 25, 2014)

Sorry to be late to the conversation, but I had some more advice on quick to dull chains. I'd be willing to bet that the number one reason has been called (the dirt, like pointed out many times above), but another compounding factor could be the people sharpening your chain.

I ran into this for a year or two when I would take my nice Stihl chains to the Stihl dealership and have them sharpened and they would never hold the edge. Turns out that (and you could REALLY see it on the chain) they were just hitting each cutter with one hard hit. That and they were never even touching the rakers. Both of these sins cause problems in the long run. What happens is that they overheat the chain's metal and it loses its temper and dulls easier. If the rakers are low enough, then your teeth are going to overheat by just basically rubbing on the wood and then you dull quick that way, too.

My advice is to get a couple of new chains and learn to hand file. Sounds like you are already halfway there based on what the thread has read thus far.

PPE is more than for safety, BTW. It makes you look totally badass. That's super important IMO. Seriously, though. Get some *all *of the PPE mentioned above.


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## Ashful (Sep 25, 2014)

Danno77 said:


> PPE is more than for safety, BTW. It makes you look totally badass. That's super important IMO. Seriously, though. Get some *all *of the PPE mentioned above.


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## TreePointer (Sep 25, 2014)

awfarmington said:


> What is the advantage or disadvantage to the LP chains?



A saw has a certain amount of power to pull a chain through wood.  This power may be measured in horsepower or displacement.

Each tooth of a chain takes a "bite" of wood when it passes through the log.  The different chain pitches available take different sized bites of wood.

If the saw has a larger pitch on it, that means it will take a larger bite of wood.  In general, this is a good thing because larger bites mean faster cutting, yeehaw!  However, lower powered saws just don't have enough power to take really big bites without bogging down or even stalling.  *Taking too large a bite for the saw's power can also be a safety issue because it can cause the saw to be too "grabby" and result in loss of control (kickback, push, pull).*

Some common chain pitches in order of "bite" size:
1/4 <  3/8LP  <  .325 <  3/8  < .404

Typical pitch found on saws according to displacement (generally):
45cc or smaller = 3/8LP
45cc - 55cc = .325
60cc and larger  = 3/8

The mid-50cc saws are a crossover displacement in which you'll find both .325 and 3/8 pitches from the factory.  These include popular midlevel saws like the Stihl 290 FarmBoss and the Husqvarna 455 Rancher.

Note that you can change a saw's pitch by changing the drive sprocket on the powerhead.  This also means that you need to buy a new bar and chains to match the pitch of new drive sprocket.  Oh, and you'll need to get another file guide and files to match, too!


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## awfarmington (Sep 25, 2014)

This saving money on burning wood sure is getting expensive! LOL 

If a lower powered saw (possibly the one I own) cannot quite handle a chain with a bigger pitch without kickback, then I think it may be wise to hold off until next summer when I have a nicer saw and am not quite so 'green'. 

Regarding the sharpening method, I just bring it the the Amish guy at the local hardware and I'm not sure how he does it. When I pick up my chains tomorrow, I will take a closer look. 

BTW, I ordered a pair of steel toe boots today. One step at a time...


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## Charles1981 (Sep 25, 2014)

Already been said, but if you hit dirt with the chain it is almost guaranteed immediately dull.

My rookie mistake as well.

cut 80% through and then roll the log as another member already suggested.

Hand filing isn't bad, and I have been filing my own. 1-2 passes on the cutters after after 2 fuel tank reloads and I can extend a chain for about 10 tank refills or so and get through about 1.5-2 cords per chain. I am still not very good at filing down rakers no matter how many videos I watch and I don't have anyone experienced to teach me how to properly. 

Many state you should be able to go 6-9 cords without having to change a chain...I haven't found that at all with my chains...but i still get kind of risky and try and cut through 90 percent and am pretty sure I have grazed the ground a few times with each chain...and Some of the trees get punky and My chain seems to dull going through really punky wood as well or is it my imagination.

Anyway good luck with the wood.


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## highanddryinco (Sep 25, 2014)

Don't get too caught up in all the power and pitch postulation right now. Sounds like you've got a saw that runs. Sounds like you've got plenty of wood to cut up. Get yourself some sharp chain(s)  for the saw you have and some PPE. Watch those Stihl videos that were mentioned earlier. (Chapter 9 addresses the issue you mentioned way back when.) Take your time, learn the basics in cutting and in saw care. You'll be surprised how much you can do with the saw you already own. Buy your dream saw a little further down the road when you find out what this saw will and won't do for you.


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## Charles1981 (Sep 25, 2014)

I was going to add as well, don't get caught up in SAW envy. The poulan has plenty of power to do 90% of the tasks you want it to. Maybe not as efficiently or with as much grace, but It is a good saw to start on. After you get through your first couple years you can decide if a more pro-type saw is a step you want to take.


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## Ashful (Sep 25, 2014)

Charles1981 said:


> Hand filing isn't bad, and I have been filing my own. 1-2 passes on the cutters after after 2 fuel tank reloads and I can extend a chain for about 10 tank refills or so and get through about 1.5-2 cords per chain. I am still not very good at filing down rakers no matter how many videos I watch and I don't have anyone experienced to teach me how to properly.


Many life-long firewood cutters, and many pro cutters, just hit their chain with a hand file after every tank or two.  It's definitely a good way to go, and damn quick, once you get good at it.  A chain grinder is NOT necessary for the average firewood cutter, but a sharp chain is!



Charles1981 said:


> Many state you should be able to go 6-9 cords without having to change a chain...I haven't found that at all with my chains...


Many will also state that a penny dropped from the Empire State Building will kill the person it hits below, but don't believe them.  I have never been able to get more than a full day out of a chain before it is noticeably duller than I'd like for best speed and least effort, and I have never been able to process 6-9 cords in a single day.  I usually plan to use two chains per day, when out cutting all day, if I don't hit something.  I put a fresh chain on at the beginning of the day, and swap it at lunch time.  Those who hand sharpen will often sharpen every second time they put fuel in the saw, or when they break for lunch.



Charles1981 said:


> I was going to add as well, don't get caught up in SAW envy. The poulan has plenty of power to do 90% of the tasks you want it to. Maybe not as efficiently or with as much grace, but It is a good saw to start on. After you get through your first couple years you can decide if a more pro-type saw is a step you want to take.


I cut with a 40cc saw for maybe the first 30 years of my life.  It wasn't the fastest saw on earth, but it worked fine for bucking stuff to length in my back yard.  Bigger saws are fun, and lighter pro saws are great for spending all day in the woods, but don't assume you can't make your current saw work for many years.


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## TreePointer (Sep 25, 2014)

As others have mentioned, lots of people cut wood with a saw like yours.  I once used my brother's 42cc Craftsman (a clone of your Poulan saw) to cut up an entire 18" red maple tree that blew down.  It did very well with the chain that came with it.

The chain that comes with your saw is matched to the power of your saw, so you don't need to worry about changing anything.


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## BrotherBart (Sep 26, 2014)

The utility company contracted tree service that did the trimming on my driveway yesterday and that cut down and bucked a 121' oak told me that they only buy "homeowner saws" anymore. They are a crew that does four miles of right of way a week on average.


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## TreePointer (Sep 26, 2014)

Heh, with the way I've seen some crews treat saws, there's no way I'd buy pro saws for them either!

On the other hand, I saw the PENNDOT crew trimming roadside trees in my neighborhood with a shiny new Stihl 362.  They looked fab in their snazzy new PPE aand were very careful with the saw but had no idea how to cut a limb without pinching a bar or stripping bark.


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## Rossco (Sep 26, 2014)

Yeah you need to make the chain number one priority when cutting on the ground. Also beware of downed logs, dirt from dragging etc. Some tree bark will suck rock, sand and dirt in during its life span. No getting around that unless the bark falls off.

Some people don't help by incorrectly sharpening the chain. Iam two seasons on a Stihl chain and its gonna be good for atleast one more. Maybe another.

I don't wear any PPE apart from gloves and safety shades. I like to hear the saw during the cut. The one thing I ALWAYS do is pivot my left wrist forward so its near touching the brake.


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## awfarmington (Sep 26, 2014)

Got my chains back today. Looked at teeth, although not sure why, I don't know what I'm looking for lol.

Rather than start a whole new thread, I thought it would be better to ask quickly here. I picked up a load of seasoned wood today thinking it would get us started while the wood we cut this summer dried further. It is $55 a rick and nearly all oak. The problem is, even tho it's been seasoned a year, it's still at 25% to 35% moisture. They have it stacked in the woods with no sun, and it's oak so I guess that's typical that it's not dry yet. Question is, should I go back and get more since it is oak and see if I can get it dry this season yet? Or pass? Currently we have almost all maple, if that matters.


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## TreePointer (Sep 26, 2014)

Oak takes TWO years to season fully under best conditions.


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## Danno77 (Sep 26, 2014)

what he said, and usually longer.

BUT, i will say the following. Burn the best wood you can burn. If the best wood you can burn stinks, you are throwing away free heat and you'll need to pay close attention to chimney and stove, but it CAN be done. Sometimes what you have just HAS to work, just be smart about it.

As for going back for more, if you think the price is good and the wood looks nice and you have space and time for it to dry, then go for it. If you are looking for wood to burn this year and have another option at a similar price (even if it's not oak), then I'd do that instead.

as for what to look for on the chain, just look for discolored metal. I looked for a picture of a burnt chain, but this is all I could find to give an idea of what overheated metal looks like:






Know that some discoloration is actually ok, because these are tempered to take high temps, but sometimes that just gets exceeded by the dude doing the sharpening.

I know this is a bad picture, but the point is that the top of this tooth is a nice even color. That's what you want...


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## Frank625 (Sep 26, 2014)

awfarmington said:


> Tmonster, can those chains also be found online (like amazon or ebay)?
> 
> Highanddryinco... Yes, we have!  The tree base is on the ground and almost always hits the ground when I finally get through. How does one avoid that with a tree too heavy to move? I'm a beginner this year, hopefully I can avoid the same mistakes next year.



That is the reason your chains dull so fast.. The saw can never go into the dirt or grass. That instantly makes your chain dull. Cut halfway through and roll the log over or get a timber jack (they have a long handle for leverage) that lifts the trunk off the ground and keeps it propped up while you cut.

Timber Jack

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200612314_200612314


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## Danno77 (Sep 26, 2014)

+1 to a timberjack...
attempting to attatch my youtube video.


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## Frank625 (Sep 26, 2014)

When you go to get a saw go to a dealer. I like the Stihl MS250 with an 18" bar, it's a good saw and very versatile. Stihl chains are very good quality as well. Stihl came out with a super fast and easy filing sharpening system that keeps the dogs at the right height too. It's pricey at $40 but it's like putting a new chain on and it can be used in the field. Keep your old saw too if it runs good. Take your time it takes a couple years to get organized and efficient but the savings will come and the heat will be far superior to any traditional oil, gas or electric heating system.

As far as you wood goes, 25% will get you by. Check it on a freshly split piece along the grain of the wood to be sure you are performing the test properly.

Stihl 2 in 1 filing Guide

http://www.stihlusa.com/products/chain-saws/accessories/filing-tools/2in1file/


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## Jags (Sep 26, 2014)

I wanna see the guy that can cut 9 cords on a single sharpening.  If I get more than one cord out of a chain before I feel the need to swap - I am feeling pretty lucky.


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## Danno77 (Sep 26, 2014)

Jags said:


> I wanna see the guy that can cut 9 cords on a single sharpening.  If I get more than one cord out of a chain before I feel the need to swap - I am feeling pretty lucky.


Dry pine with a huge bar and just making a fine dust at the end. would take forever to do. I call bunk on this being a reasonable thing at all.


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## craigbaill (Sep 26, 2014)

Frank625 said:


> When you go to get a saw go to a dealer. I like the Stihl MS250 with an 18" bar, it's a good saw and very versatile. Stihl chains are very good quality as well. Stihl came out with a super fast and easy filing sharpening system that keeps the dogs at the right height too. It's pricey at $40 but it's like putting a new chain on and it can be used in the field. Keep your old saw too if it runs good. Take your time it takes a couple years to get organized and efficient but the savings will come and the heat will be far superior to any traditional oil, gas or electric heating system.
> 
> As far as you wood goes, 25% will get you by. Check it on a freshly split piece along the grain of the wood to be sure you are performing the test properly.
> 
> ...



I have this    http://www.stihlusa.com/products/chain-saws/accessories/filing-tools/2in1file/[/quote]      ( as suggested by someone on this site!  ) and it rocks. It is super consistent and it does a great job. Mind you I have the most basic chain as I have the Stihl MS170 saw but if the chain is sharp, I can cut for awhile and throw big(ish) chips. I could never get consistent rakers hand filing but thats me... I keep three chains in rotation. a side note: the original chain I got with the saw was re-sharpened by the dealer and it lasted about 10 minutes before it started throwing fine dust. Maybe someone else could shed some light as to whether or not the 2 in 1 guide works for non- Stihl chains.


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## RobertNH (Sep 26, 2014)

You have had some great advise given and it looks like your willing to learn.
Good for you!
You came to the right place and heeding the advise.
Likin' this!

If you're dropping your own trees, plan how and how many.
Not only good property management, but you think about where their dropping (or what their dropping into).
I've been known to put a log or 2 in the path of the fall to create a space if needed.
Usually, there's enough strong branches to hold up sections to length out to manageable lengths.
And, yes, as suggested, roll the pieces/lengths.

These guys will hate me for sayin' this... and I'm ready for the 'flack'... but,
I've given up on the Big Boy Chainsaws...
I've gone electric... (oh my I think I just swore... not allowed..)

Good chain!
Learn how to sharpen!
Stay out of the dirt!
Please, protect yourself!

I for one, want to hear more good stories from ya!


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## lindnova (Sep 26, 2014)

Frank625 said:


> When you go to get a saw go to a dealer. I like the Stihl MS250 with an 18" bar, it's a good saw and very versatile. Stihl chains are very good quality as well. Stihl came out with a super fast and easy filing sharpening system that keeps the dogs at the right height too. It's pricey at $40 but it's like putting a new chain on and it can be used in the field. Keep your old saw too if it runs good. Take your time it takes a couple years to get organized and efficient but the savings will come and the heat will be far superior to any traditional oil, gas or electric heating system.
> 
> As far as you wood goes, 25% will get you by. Check it on a freshly split piece along the grain of the wood to be sure you are performing the test properly.
> 
> ...


The Stihl 250 (good saw) has been replaced by the 251 and has one bolt holding on the bar that some have had break off (plastic mount) that I would be leary of.  There are still plenty of great stihl saws for homeowners such as the ms270 or ms290.  My personal preference for one small saw is the MS 261 - light, fast, durable, but spendy.  For larger wood the MS362 is great, but larger than many a homeowner would need.  I would give it another year to see if you really need to replace the saw you have.  I started out with a Poulon wild thing and it ran forever and did the job, but vibrated the heck out of my hands compared to my 260. 

As far as filing, It took me a few years before I finally got the hang of hand filing and now I wonder why it took so long.  Youtube videos are great teachers.  I have a bench grinder that works great, but I do most of my filing by hand now.  One or 2 hits after 2 tanks of gas and 2 or 3 hits on the vise.  It is faster for me.  I use the bench grinder to true things up if they get off or metal hits every now and then.


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## CTYank (Sep 28, 2014)

For bucking (and felling) you want a few plastic wedges, 5" and 8". When you start a cut, you can just push a wedge into the kerf once the saw has cut down far enough to not hit the wedge. The wedge will keep the kerf from closing and pinching the bar & chain. When you move to another cut, you can just pull out the wedge as you wish. Very good habit to get into. Placing wood under logs before they drop to ground level = priceless.

Especially here, use one or more wedges where you're going to cut through. Even if you have a spare saw, getting pinched is sub-optimum.

For getting the most use out of a chain between sharpenings, semi-chisel chain is way better than full-chisel. Still won't cope well with ditch-witching.

Anybody touting a stihl 250/251 is doing you no favor. It's mediocre at best. For the same bux, get a dolmar ps-421, it'll run circles around the stihl- it's a "pro" saw.


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## Rossco (Sep 28, 2014)

Jags said:


> I wanna see the guy that can cut 9 cords on a single sharpening.  If I get more than one cord out of a chain before I feel the need to swap - I am feeling pretty lucky.



Wodda ya mean by 'changing chain'?

Changing out to a sharper chain or throwing that chain away?


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## jebatty (Sep 28, 2014)

Enjoyable to review all the comments. Excellent advice. The most important advice is one mistake can end your life or half of your face. Never can you be too careful, never get too tired, never saw without full safety equipment, and never push a saw with a dull chain -- priceless. 23 years now of sawing stove wood for house and shop, about 9 cords/year, plus saw logs for around 5000 bd ft per year. My Husky 372XP with an 18" bar, bought new in 2002, has been flawless, no maintenance at all except sharp chains. 

I have rotated the same 10 chains during all this time. Starting with my own machine sharpening, I then hand sharpen touch-up after each tank of gas, 4-5 times usually, then switch to a new chain. When all 10 chains have been used, machine sharpen again, all at the same grinder setting so wear is even. I also regularly grind the bar and use a rail closer to keep the bar in top shape.


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## Ashful (Sep 28, 2014)

Rossco said:


> Wodda ya mean by 'changing chain'?
> 
> Changing out to a sharper chain or throwing that chain away?


Swap to a sharper chain, put the dull one in a box to take home and sharpen at a more convenient time.


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## TreePointer (Sep 28, 2014)

+1

I'll sharpen in the field if I must, but I'd much rather sharpen on my workbench.


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## awfarmington (Sep 28, 2014)

More than a couple dollars poorer...BUT I think we are finally on the right path. Thus far, I have or have coming;

Steel toe boots for son
Steel toe shoes for me
Chain saw chaps (sharing)
Helmet w/ guard and ear protection
Oregon chain
Hook for rolling log
Wedge set for under tree

We are nearly done this season. But I should be all set for next spring and hopefully slightly less green.


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## Rossco (Sep 28, 2014)

Joful said:


> Swap to a sharper chain, put the dull one in a box to take home and sharpen at a more convenient time.



Oh I thought you meant throw it away Ha Ha Ha. Silly me I guess.

Av just tuned the chain today, I even filed the rackers down for the first time this season. I sharpen every time I go out. Just a few swipes with the file and check the saw out.


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## JP11 (Sep 28, 2014)

There you go!

Make sure you USE all that gear.  Watch a bunch of chainsaw safety videos online.  It's not rocket science, but it's one of the scariest homeowner tools to operate.  Much damage can be done very quickly.

Stay safe, and enjoy the peace of mind heating with a renewable, very affordable heat source.

JP


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## Danno77 (Sep 29, 2014)

awfarmington said:


> More than a couple dollars poorer...BUT I think we are finally on the right path. Thus far, I have or have coming;
> 
> Steel toe boots for son
> Steel toe shoes for me
> ...



You are a quick learner. Takes some people a lot longer to figure this all out.


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## Fred Wright (Sep 29, 2014)

I'm late to this conversation, just want to thank you folks for your excellent, professional advice.

On chain dulling and dirt, red maple is susceptible to carpenter ant infestations at the base of the tree. I've cut many reds here and over half the stumps still stand. Carpenter ant nests seem to create a dirty environment, almost like sand or soil inside the stump. Dulled more than one chain trying to trim those dirty stumps, not gonna do it anymore.

If the log you're cutting has dirt or mud on the bark from where it fell, that will dull a chain right away. You can use an ax to remove the dirty bark where you wish to make your cuts.

Hope it helps.


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## Highbeam (Sep 29, 2014)

Rossco said:


> Wodda ya mean by 'changing chain'?
> 
> Changing out to a sharper chain or throwing that chain away?


 
That guy that gets 9 cords out of a chain means with sharpenings he can get 9 cords. Not 9 cords before one sharpening. I get way way more than 9 cords out of a chain.


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## Bigg_Redd (Sep 29, 2014)

Highbeam said:


> I get way way more than 9 cords out of a chain.



I get 10-15


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## Ashful (Sep 29, 2014)

If you can keep track of how many cords you get out of a chain, you don't own enough saws... or chains.


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## TreePointer (Sep 29, 2014)

So are we talkin' cords, face cords, bush cords, chords, ricks, or corduroy?


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## Highbeam (Sep 29, 2014)

There is only one cord, everything else is bananas.


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## Frank625 (Sep 30, 2014)




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## bpirger (Sep 30, 2014)

One comment.....when working together with someone, make sure they know to always approach a cutter within full vision from the front....i.e. not from the back or side.  Sometimes the saw is picked up out of a cut and moved off to the side (usually left side) and can still be spinning a touch.  So always be aware of where the chain is or CAN be.......I really hate it when the kid "helpers" are walking around when I'm bucking up logs.  Makes me nervous!   Have a very health fear (respect) for the saw, beware the kick back that can/will come at anytime (when top of front sprocket makes contact with something like another log in the pile.....), and always hold on with the left hand to absorb the energy when it comes back.


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## Saddle Mander (Oct 6, 2014)

I didn't read all 4 pages, but I'll chime in anyway.

If you ever saw a demonstration of what a chainsaw will do to a ham in 0.25 seconds, you would RUN to buy chaps.

Even a small speck that flies into your eye can startle you enough to lose control of your saw.

I am a member of several "logging" forums.  I've noticed that the hotshot homeowners don't really bother much with PPE, and the professionals are ADAMANT about the need for EVERYONE to wear PPE.


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