# So it begins



## DonCT

Finally started working on getting my new stove installed. I'll try to take pictures as I go along so you can see the difference 

Here's the original fireplace:


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## DonCT

Mantle and fireplace removed:


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## DonCT

First section of chimney. Would this count as double wall???


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## DonCT

More chimney


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## DonCT

New flooring with the new hearth dimensions cut out. Hopefully I can have the hearth done by this weekend and schedule the stove and new chimney to be installed shortly after.

Of course, more pics to come


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## Corie

MORE MORE MORE


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## DonCT

Metal framing done for the hearth pad. I was surprised; working with the metal stud and tracks were really very simple 

Durock going on tomorrow.


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## DonCT

On one side there wrere 2 sheets of 5/8" Durock, but nothing on the other. That's another reason I'm going to Durock the back of the alcove.


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## Eric Johnson

Nice looking pad frame-up there, Don.


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## martel

keep em coming Don- enjoying your install...


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## DonCT

Durock installed on the new hearth pad. It was a little wierd at first, but I think it came out ok. I just need to sand the edges and tape up the joints. Hopefully I'll have time this weekend to start on the tile. Still haven't picked out a color yet. The woman can't seem to make up her mind (as if that's something new and unusual  )

Keep in mind, this was my first time doing custom work with Durock  And I think it will meet the clearances.


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## begreen

Don, great job. Keep the pictures coming. It's great to get a sequential build like this. 

However, "the woman" comment..... ouch. That is so 1950s. Sounds like my older brother.


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## MountainStoveGuy

Don, looking good! and also looks familiar! That hearthpad is harder to lay out then it would seem. Cant wait to see the finished product.


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## wg_bent

That's durock?  Looks like sheet rock.


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## DonCT

On the sign at the Depot, it said Firestop somethingorother Gypsom. I assumed it was Durock. I take it I was mistaken?

Oh well, There's 2 layers of 5/8" on the top, so that should be sufficient, right?


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## wg_bent

DonCT said:
			
		

> On the sign at the Depot, it said Firestop somethingorother Gypsom. I assumed it was Durock. I take it I was mistaken?
> 
> oh well, There's 2 layers of 5/8" on the top, so that should be sufficient, right?



Hey Don, Well, I'm not sure.  I'm far from an expert though.  If you look at the "before the Osburn" thread I did, the stuff I used is called Wonderboard.  I got it at the BORG.  It's actually fiberglass mesh similar to the stuff you use for doing sheetrock joints with cement in between  The stuff is literally sheet cement.  I've placed it in the stove to see how fire proof it is and it comes out looking just like when it went in.  Plus it's great to tile up to since the cheapest junk tile morter bonds to it really well.  I'd hate to see you go too far with the wrong base.  

I always thought that firestop sheet rock was a product to put in garages and it was basically fire retardant version of sheetrock, but I could be wrong.  Elk may know the specifics of the code and products.  I'd like to hear what you finally do.


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## begreen

On closer inspection, I think Warren may be correct. The board appears to have a paper coat on it. If that's correct, it is a form of sheetrock. Hearths should be build on non-combustible materials. The paper in sheetrock is combustible. I used wonderboard as well.


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## DonCT

Well, looks like Don learned a something here.

Guess it's time for another trip the the store and have them physically show me the Durock/Wonderboard 

Thanks for catching that fellas


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## wg_bent

The other part of the equation is that the Wonderboard has pretty good thermal mass since it's essentially cement.  Sorry to cause the rework Don, but I think the install will be really sweet when your done with a change to Wonderboard.  The good news is that Wonderboard is really cheap, so at least it wasn't a costly change.    One other suggestion... get the screws that are made for Wonderboard.  They're expensive, but worth every penny.  (a little trick...a thin layer of morter between layers adds structural integrety, thermal conduction to the lower layers and makes the whole thing so stiff you won't believe it.)

Using the metal studs was a great idea...I wish I thought of that.  I insulated instead.


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## webbie

DonCT said:
			
		

> First section of chimney. Would this count as double wall???



This chimney is good for nothing except for use with the prefab fireplace that it came with - in other words it is not generic and cannot be used for a wood stove.

This assumes that it was for a prefab in the first place.
It also looks like it is just about touching that wood!


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## webbie

Dylan said:
			
		

> Well, correct if me if I'm wrong, but the paper is only one issue here. The gypsum product will provide almost no ability to 'BRIDGE' the gap between supports. It will flex and collapse under the vertical loads.



Strangely enough, a lot of the approved stoveboards on the market are made with sheetrock as the backer board!

They use metal angles around the edges and tile then.


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## DonCT

Well, found the Durock at the Depot. Picked up 4 sheets to do the top of the pad. I plan on keeping the 5/8" sheetrock on the sides of the pad. Will the sheetrock work ok for the walls of the alcove? Or do I need to durock them aswell?

I can reuse the sheetrock from the pad for the top of the alcove, and just pick up 1 more sheet of 4x8 to make the sides and back wall. I just figure since the pad is the closest to the stove that I would want alittle more protection there. Also, in the manual, it only talks about the R value of the pad, not the walls. As long and they're the firestop sheetrock, will I be ok? The stove will be installed with the clearance to combustables for the wood frame walls (11 in. from the corner of the stove to the wall)

I'm so confused on the walls :/


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## MountainStoveGuy

No need to sheet the walls with a non combustable, as long as you maintain your clearances to your sheetrock.


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## webbie

Dylan said:
			
		

> What is a stoveboard typically supported upon??



The ones I am speaking about have to sit on a decent floor - either hardwood or a tight carpet. Plush carpets are difficult without cutting the rug/

I've seen both sheetrock and mineral board (like in 2x4 suspended ceiling tiles) used as the backer for these tile boards. I suppose some use cement board also, but just about any material will crack if the board is not properly seating and supported on the floor.


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## DonCT

Great, now that I layed out where the stove will be in relation to all the walls, I think the pipe coming off the stove is going to be too close to the front wall of the alcove. I need to find out if I can rear vent, then go up. Or bend it back slightly as it comes off the stove, with the swivel pipes (I think they make them for Class A).

Or the only other way is to rip the rest of the wall down and rework it so that it will be far enough away so I can mount the ceiling box for the chimney.

I think I've just made this whole project alittle too hard. Oh well, I gotta learn sometime  Plus that's what I have you guys for


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## wg_bent

I feel your pain.  I had a few of these moments during my install too.  In retrospect, I think I should have pulled out the 0 Clearance fireplace and done an install more like yours....maybe in my next house.


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## DonCT

Does anyone know if the stove pipe can be angled off the stove? Or does it need to run straight for a specific length before any bends? Now, I'm not talking about a 90, just something slight to get it more behind the wall.

I may still rip down the wall, but if I can bend the pipe back, then I won't HAVE to. I think I'm gonna call the stove place tomorrow and see what they say.


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## elkimmeg

Don there are a few issues here  single wall pipe or elbow requires 18" clearance to combustiables in all directions If you use a swivel  single wall elbow you may have to deal with combustiable issues with the rear walls. Many elbows are adjustiable angled for 90 degrees to straight.  
The stove position may be 11 " from combustiables but one has to factor the clearances of the vent pipe most double wall connector pipe is 6 or 9"  clearance to combustiables but if you use a single wall elbow that is 18" regardless of the stove position.
 Don I'm thinking I might be able to sneek away one day this comming weekend and look your situation over. Pm me your location I have a mother in law in Simsbury.  I think we can map out  the easiest way to complete your setup even lend a hand. I will pack up some anticipated tools. Knowning me, You will have a safe  code compliant setup

What is Fire code sheet rock?  It is a product designed to protect combustiable framing a certain time limit.  5/8" will provide one hour protection doubling it up 2 hours. However the paper face is considered combustiable.  the product therefore is a barrier but not non combustiable.  Non rated 1/2" drywall is just that not rated for protection there is a different composition of the drywall core for fire core to conventional sheet rock.  Dura rock Wonder board ie cement board is considered non combustiable. I  applaud your effort but  lets come up with the proper solution that affords you  a safe install not guessing


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## DonCT

I figured as much. What about a T off the back of the stove? Do they make double wall T's? I just need to move the pipe back a couple inches, or move the wall a couple inches. As of right now, the pipe would be only 1 1/8" from the wall. I don't think a ceiling box will fit that 

The Heritage can be setup for rear vent.


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## DonCT

Found a picture of what I was thinking about. Notice how the pipe takes a slight bend to the rear. If I can do that, I should be able to get the clearance on the wall. DuraTech makes 15 and 30 degree double walled sections. It's just a question of length.

Thoughts?


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## DonCT

I called the stove store and they said they make a black double wall T. If I use that with the rear vent for the stove, That will set the stovepipe back enough to clear the alcove front wall.


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## DonCT

Well now that I have more motivation (stove being installed on the 15th!!), I'm really starting to make headway on the alcove 

Here, the 2 sheets of 1/2" Durock are installed with a layer of thinset between to help bond them together.


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## DonCT

All taped up and now where to go 

Just have to fill in the little gap on the corner. That was my access point to behing the wall to run the wiring for the new sconces and wall plate. And for some bizzare reason, I find taping quite enjoyable

Now that I've got the walls going pretty well, I'm going to start on the tile perhaps tonight, or tomorrow. That should allow me to have it all ready for the installers this saturday.


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## DonCT

Here's the metal channel I've installed to frame the ceiling of the alcove. Once the stove is installed, I'll frame in around the ceiling box and sheetrock it.


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## MountainStoveGuy

DonCT said:
			
		

> I called the stove store and they said they make a black double wall T. If I use that with the rear vent for the stove, That will set the stovepipe back enough to clear the alcove front wall.



one cool thing about that install is that you get to use the cook plate on the top of the stove. Gives you more area, and a little more restriction, which can make the stove a little more efficient but could also effect draft as well. If you have plenty of chimney it shouldnt be a issue.


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## DonCT

Well, the total chimney run is about 25', with only the slight bend to mate the chimney to the stove pipe. Hopefully that should be good 

Arrrrrrghhhhh, figuring out the best way to tile (design wise) is a pain in the arse! I think I'm gonna do some more taping to chill out


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## elkimmeg

Looks good so far


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## begreen

DonCT said:
			
		

> Well, the total chimney run is about 25', with only the slight bend to mate the chimney to the stove pipe. Hopefully that should be good
> 
> Arrrrrrghhhhh, figuring out the best way to tile (design wise) is a pain in the arse! I think I'm gonna do some more taping to chill out



Don, I find the best way to design tile layouts is on the computer. It allows one to work with dimensionally correct patterns and to rearrange things to one's heart's content. I haven't tried this program, but it's tiling specific and free. http://www.irisceramica.com/merchandising/cad_design_free.php?lang=en

This does assume that one is comfortable with computer graphics softwre. If not, do it on some 1/4" graph paper. That way you can experiment with layouts that are to scale. If you want, post some ideas and maybe we can help.

- Will


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## DonCT

Thanks for the link I laid out my design using CADKEY though, and I think it worked out ok. Here's the tile going on:


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## DonCT

Gout time!


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## DonCT

Finish product. I have to say, I'm pretty proud of myself. This is my first time designing and building a hearth, taping drywall, and laying tile. 

The stove will be installed tomorrow, so more pictures to come


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## elkimmeg

I think you deserve a Sam Adams kick off your shoes and enjoy it. You see what effort and determination can do
 great job


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## DonCT

Thanks!! I will definitely have to go to the package store and pick up atleast a sixer 

It's going to be sooo easy to finish out the alcove once the stove is in. I just need to patch the final piece of the wall, hang the ceiling, and paint.


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## begreen

Super job Don, it looks great! It's nice that you are documenting all of this. I expect to be doing a similar project later in the summer, so I'm getting good ideas and lessons from your experiences.


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## DonCT

Yipeee! The day of the install. I'm like a kid on Christmas morning 

As for the pictures, I know that pictures have helped me design and build my set up. It's soooo much easier to visualize (obviously). If I can help people along the way, it's even better. Since I don't have that much experience in the wood heating sector, this is my way of contributing to helping others


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## wg_bent

DonCT said:
			
		

> Yipeee! The day of the install. I'm like a kid on Christmas morning
> 
> As for the pictures, I know that pictures have helped me design and build my set up. It's soooo much easier to visualize (obviously). If I can help people along the way, it's even better. Since I don't have that much experience in the wood heating sector, this is my way of contributing to helping others



What sucks is that you won't be able to use it for a good 8 months now.  Congrads though.


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## DonCT

I won't see the full benefit till atleast October. But you better believe I'm going to fire it up after it's inspected  I don't care if it's 80 out, it's still firing up!!


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## DonCT

Install pics


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## DonCT

More....


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## DonCT

More......


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## DonCT

More.......


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## DonCT

More.....


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## DonCT

Finally 

Now I will have to get it inspected, signed off, and finish the walls and ceiling.


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## MountainStoveGuy

look great. nice choice of stove. that install looks very familer. GREAT JOB. I think i want to put a T on mine. I like the cookplate.


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## tradergordo

Just curious, but did you guys determine the "R value" for your hearths?  I'm still a bit confused on this.  According to my manual (and many others I've found on the web) your hearth has to have an R value of at least 1.19.  I've found several charts on the web and even in some install manuals listing various materials and their R values.  Durock has an r-value of .52 per inch, which, if I'm not mistaken, means you need a minimum of 2.29 inches to meet code and pass inspection in most areas.  That seems to be the reason other people are using alternate materials like micore 300.

Thoughts?

I just bought my wood stove and I'm ready to build the hearth - but still gathering information.


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## elkimmeg

Your principle is right but math  needs work .5 2 x 2= 1.04  1.5 " of dure rock excceeds 1.19  where do you get needing 2"?
 the tile surface may meet your requirements with one inch dura rock good luck there are other materials to use as well


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## DonCT

Also, I went by what my stove manual stated for R value. If you follow that, you won't have any troubles with inspection. Technically, I could have built the pad out of 2x4's instead of metal stud, but I did that as a fudge factor. The actual R value of the pad I built is closer to 3 or so...... didn't really do the math. I just know I met the minimum as listed in the manual.

If you can get Micore, that will allow you to make the pad much thinner. Add to that durock and tile, you shouldn't have a problem.


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## tradergordo

elkimmeg said:
			
		

> Your principle is right but math  needs work .5 2 x 2= 1.04  1.5 " of dure rock excceeds 1.19  where do you get needing 2"?
> the tile surface may meet your requirements with one inch dura rock good luck there are other materials to use as well




OK - I feel retarded, but can you elaborate because I don't follow.  .52 x 2 = 1.04.  Doesn't that mean 2" of durock gets you an r-value of 1.04?  But the minimum requirement is 1.19.  

1.19 divided by .52 = 2.29

What am I missing?

Of course this is ONLY considering the durock layer.  The tile has some r value, although I also read you should not even count the tile towards your total because you never know for sure what its value actually is unless you can find some specific rated name brand, and then you have the issue of the grout.


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## elkimmeg

Dura rock comes in 1/2" thick sheets not trying to discourage you. I believe it is r.54 per the 1/2 " I think you assumed they were 1" thick but I will check after golfing, I could be wrong.   I may have made the false assumption .54 = 1/2" thickness

Wonder board is another cemnet board  which may have slightly different characteristics or R value There is also two grades of Micore, which is commonly used for ceiling tiles,   some used in fire rated assemblies.  Which might be used and purchased at Home cheapo.  Post this question up on the main forum not in the picture section you will get quite a few more replies Hearth room


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## tradergordo

OK - I posted my question in the main forum.  I originally posted it here because Don used two sheets of durock (one inch total thickness) so I figured he would be a good source on describing the total R value of his hearth.

According to:
https://www.hearth.com/articles/64_0_1_0_M1.html

One inch of durock/wonderboard only has an R value of .52 (yes, that is per inch).  I know the air gap in don's hearth would also increase the hearth's total R value but I have no idea how much, and as I said before, based on what I've read the tiles are not included in the total at all.  Did the inspector require or provide an actual R value calculation?  Did you stove install manual specify a minimum R value for your hearth?

I guess the key is the R value of the air space.  I assume that is what brought Don's total up to an acceptable level (he would NOT have been able to use wood studs and still meet code with just one inch of durock - I'm pretty certain of that, as the air space would then not be counted towards the total)


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## hearthtools

Like the photos
Steel Studs are great. we used them for everything now.
we use the track for our framing of our supports boxes on New contruction and Remodels.

can I use them in my shop for examples.
Do you have any more you can email to me?
rod@hearthtools.com


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## DonCT

What you see is what I have. And sure, feel free to use them


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## Highbeam

Sorry to dig up old threads but.... I see you used the deitrich non-structural studs for your steel stud base. So did I. Lot's of screws and really close spacing. These studs just aren't the same as wood in terms of apparent strength, they seemed like they would fold up to me with their open C channel shape. When using the studs as a platform there is no manufacturer guidance on strength, the manufacturer makes these for walls and such. 

How are they holding up? Did they flex at all when the stove was installed? Do they creak or moan? Any cracked tiles at the feet of your stove? 

I have built my pad similarly with steel studs and then screwed 3+ sheets (two layers) of durock at 96 lbs per sheet, thinset between, and tile on top. Everything is very solid feeling and the studs are supporting 350-400 lbs right now. I am a little worried about adding 500 lbs of stove plus two burley guys lifting said stove. Easily putting 1000 lbs of weight onto my platform. The floor below is very adequate but I have fears of the platform collapsing either upon installation or when burning some day. 

Am I just getting anxious or has anyone ever seen a steel stud platform squished? Install scheduled for Aug 14th.


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## DonCT

Once the studs are fastened and covered with durock, it's solid as a rock. They're not going to be slamming stuff around, so you should be ok.

When my Heritage was installed, there were 3 of us (I was the lightest at 230) and the stove (450). No issues.

As long as the studs are installed with care and placed accordingly (I think I used 16" OC), I think I could support quite a bit of weight.


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## Highbeam

Thanks Don. On average I used 12" spacing, between studs that were on average 16" long so pretty small spans. The average spacing was due to  a little cheating in the middle to get a stud under each leg of the stove. One layer of durock with screws was a little flexy, obviously no good for tile. Wet mortar then another screwed layer of durock and things were a bit better but I could hear creaks wwhen walking on it until that mortar had time to set up and then the assembly got real solid and quiet. 

How did you lift the stove and then move and set it? There must have been some sort of trick to avoid dragging it across the tile and also to lift it the 4 inches.


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## DonCT

Simply 3 burly dudes getting hernias 

Seriously, that sucker is a massive chunk of stove, so be VERY careful lifting and moving it! I was worried when we placed it, but that quickly faded once it was in. As I said, you're not gonna be slamming 1000 lbs down on that thing. Sounds like you've got your hearth set up to take the pressure from the feet and distribute it.

But what I wanna know is..... WHERE'S THE PICTURES????????


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## Highbeam

I've taken them, for you folks and for the inspector. I just haven't gotten them all together for a thread like yours. I promise, there will be pictures. You'll even get to see my rather interesting outside air ductwork that uses the steel stud cavities for routing.


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## BrotherBart

The heck with the stove. I want your tractor!


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## wowchad

Even though I'm looking for an insert this was a great read, great pics...well documented Don!


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## DonCT

WOW This is still alive here?? 

Thanks!! She's burnin great. BEST decision I've made


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