# Want to improve lawn quality..haven no idea where to start



## sportbikerider78 (May 25, 2016)

I have no desire to have a perfect lawn.  I live in the country and really don't care.  What I want is a lawn that does not consist of 50% dandelions and other weeds that all grow at totally different rates.  Two days after I mow it looks like I never mowed because there is all kinds of stuff growing out there...I call it my field...not a lawn.

How do I start killing the weeds and planting seed?  I have moist soil and we get plenty of rain, but short growing season. 

Thanks!


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## maple1 (May 25, 2016)

How much lawn are we talking here?

Mine is hardly a lawn also, weeds all over the place. But it's big - takes 2 hours to do with the ride-on, between mine & the folks. So I just try to mow as regularly as I can. Even weeds don't look THAT bad after cutting, they kinda blend right in. I can tolerate the dandelion stems poking back up in between mowings. If I had something more postage stamp in size, I might think about a tool to root them out with. But I think one could overseed with more grass seed, any time - not sure how effective it would be, likely would come down to soil type & climate.


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## Montanalocal (May 25, 2016)

If you do not mind spraying the simplest would be to contact a lawn care company like Nitrogreen or a similar one and have them come out and spray it.  If you want to think about putting a garden or trees in any time in the future, be sure to mention that you do not want anything that is persistent.

If organic is your thing, then you can till everything under and keep tilling for a year to control the regrowth.  An alternative to that is to cover with black plastic and kill things that way.

The very best time to seed grass is to wait until just before winter hits, and spread the seed on top of the ground and lightly rake it in.  Your local count extension agent would likely be the best to advise on the particular grass species for your area.


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## 7acres (May 25, 2016)

I have about 2 acres I mow. When I bought the house it was definitely more of a "field". I've found the best thing to keep it looking nice is to mow every week during the growing season. Last year I finally bought a commercial 52" zero turn mower and that has made it possible to stay on top of it. I agree that the weeds are not noticeable from the road if the lawn mowing is kept up with. It all looks green and evenly cut.


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## Sprinter (May 25, 2016)

Montanalocal said:


> The very best time to seed grass is to wait until just before winter hits,


That's right, but if the grasses themselves are okay, I think I'd try applying 2,4-D which kills most weeds but leaves the grasses alone.  Maybe one of the "weed&feed" products that mix fertilizer and 2,4-D.  Then buy or rent a plug-type aerator and maybe a dethatcher before over-seeding in the fall.  But that all depends on the nature of the problem. 

This is a very good resource for pro help: http://www.lawnsite.com/  It's a site for pros, but they have a forum for homeowner assistance.  If you join that forum, you may want to provide pics for them.


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## jatoxico (May 25, 2016)

Check out your local cooperative extension. They usually have a good handle on local conditions/problems and tend to take a less is more approach. You could always just use Scott's or some other companies pre-determined program but they'll have you treating with something practically year round and often for things that may not be a problem for you.


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## sportbikerider78 (May 25, 2016)

Thanks guys..i'm dealing with likely under 1 acre.  I have about 2 acres cleared, but don't care much about the rest.  
If it costs much money, I'm just not going to do it. Besides..the wild turkeys love my yard the way it is.  

A weed killer that leaves the grass would be ideal.  I'll price that out and look into some more detail.


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## Jags (May 26, 2016)

Got any farmer friends?  If so - get a cup of farmer grade 24D and half a cup of Banvel and mix into 20 gallons.  Nukes weeds, won't harm the grass.  Grass will start to take over the bare areas that the weeds occupied.  Cost of the product is next to nill (most farmers probably have that much in an old jug sitting in the corner somewhere).


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## sportbikerider78 (May 26, 2016)

Jags said:


> Got any farmer friends?  If so - get a cup of farmer grade 24D and half a cup of Banvel and mix into 20 gallons.  Nukes weeds, won't harm the grass.  Grass will start to take over the bare areas that the weeds occupied.  Cost of the product is next to nill (most farmers probably have that much in an old jug sitting in the corner somewhere).


How about this?

http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/gordons-amine-400-2-4-d-weed-killer-1-gal


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## Sprinter (May 26, 2016)

sportbikerider78 said:


> How about this?
> 
> http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/gordons-amine-400-2-4-d-weed-killer-1-gal


Pretty darn cheap for two+ acres coverage.  And like Jags said, you probably will not need to reseed at all depending on the health of the grass.


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## sportbikerider78 (May 26, 2016)

Wonderful.  Thanks guys.


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## Babaganoosh (May 26, 2016)

If you aren't in a rush use some weed and feed now and in the spring. Those are the dandelion seasons. 

As someone said above I'd dethatch if needed and aerate come fall. Then overseed. By next spring you will see a huge difference. 

Also pull a soil sample before you do anything and get the results. If the ph is off the fertilizer will be a waste of money. 

I have about 3/4 acre and go with a push spreader over a pull behind for the mower. You can get used Scotts ones on craigslist but they are all junk in my opinion.  I got this one.


Pics too big. Apparently can't post it. Sorry


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## Sprinter (May 26, 2016)

Babaganoosh said:


> Pics too big. Apparently can't post it. Sorry


Often you do need to resize using a photo editor app.  I've found 1000 wide and 72 dpi works pretty well using the "thumbnail" option.  If interested, here is a Hearth article on uploading pics.  https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/putting-images-into-your-forums-posts.87212/


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## Jags (May 27, 2016)

sportbikerider78 said:


> How about this?
> 
> http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/gordons-amine-400-2-4-d-weed-killer-1-gal


That will work for the 24D part.  It is not farmer grade (if you can buy it without a license - it ain't farmer grade), but it will still work.  The Banvel part is still missing.  Banvel will go after stuff that the 24D doesn't.  Depending on the time of year, the 24D won't do much against creeping charlie (as one example).  Banvel will.  I don't know if there is a consumer grade equivalent to Banvel.  It may be worth a minute on google to find the active ingredient to see if there is a cross reference to the stuff in the stores.
And YES - you can mix them in the same sprayer so that it is a one application and done.


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## Sprinter (May 28, 2016)

I have a similar problem as the OP.  I hadn't known of Banvel before, so I looked it up.  The generic name is dicamba.  As Jags says, it is commonly mixed with 2,4,-D for the tougher weeds.  I did note one warning about dicamba, and that is that is migrates through the soil, and can damage nearby ornamentals and trees.  So you would want to consider that for your application.

Thanks Jags, I'll keep it in mind for our place. This is a pretty good site for lawn weed control: http://turf.okstate.edu/pest-management/weeds/hla6421-weedsinlawns.pdf  It addresses dicamba and 2,4,D.  It also mentions Roundup products.  Do NOT use Roundup or any such product on a lawn.  It kills anything.  But it's good for pesky problems where killing desireable plants is not an issue.  I've used it for sidewalks, pathways, etc.


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## Jags (May 28, 2016)

I use roundup in place of a weedeater.


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## Sprinter (May 28, 2016)

Jags said:


> I use roundup in place of a weedeater.


Like around edges?  I probably should use it more often, like around the foundation, greenhouse, etc.  It apparently doesn't poison the soil and does biodegrade fairly quickly.  Good stuff if you're careful not to overspray.  Yeah, I'm going to get out and get at it in a few trouble spots.  Stuff is growing like crazy around here now.   

Too bad it's no good on blackberry bushes.  Any good ideas for blackberries?


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## begreen (May 28, 2016)

Please be very mindful of runoff when using strong herbicides. 2-4-D is the basis of agent orange. You don't want this stuff washing into local ponds, streams or lakes. I have been eliminating dandelions one at a time with a Fiskars dandelion puller tool. I just work a reasonable area at a time. Takes a bit longer but the results are good.


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## Sprinter (May 28, 2016)

begreen said:


> Please be very mindful of runoff when using strong herbicides. 2-4-D is the basis of agent orange. You don't want this stuff washing into local ponds, streams or lakes. I have been eliminating dandelions one at a time with a Fiskars dandelion puller tool. I just work a reasonable area at a time. Takes a bit longer but the results are good.


I agree that you need to be careful when using any herbicides.  While Agent Orange was mostly 2,4-D (maybe half with the 2,4,5-T) it's pretty well established that the toxic effects were the result of the uber-toxic dioxin  (TCDD) contaminant component, not the 2,4-D.  No question, it was an extremely unforgivable chapter in the war that it was used.  Somewhat controversial, but it seems that Monsanto was aware of the dioxin contamination with the 2,4,5-T part..  Horrible stuff (as was the war IMO) (and yes, I did my "thing" but stateside).

Sorry for the mini-rant.  It's a sore point.


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## Sprinter (May 28, 2016)

begreen said:


> I have been eliminating dandelions one at a time with a Fiskars dandelion puller tool. I just work a reasonable area at a time. Takes a bit longer but the results are good.


Does that tool get the whole root all the way down?  I've never had good results trying that technique, but always willing to try something new.  My back and front lawns are small enough for a manual technique that works.


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## jebatty (May 29, 2016)

Solved our lawn care issues by agreeing that the wife would take on mowing, etc. She quickly decided too much work (wise woman), and lawn now is a view lane out the front, a little wider off one side, and leave it alone to grow natural on the other two sides of the house. Grass, the lawn kind, is way over-rated.


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## blades (May 29, 2016)

If your out in the country you can get away with that but in the burbs we have to deal with the local weed patrol wardens! And uppity neighbors and the like.


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## jeffesonm (May 29, 2016)

I read it's good to mow your grass tall, and more frequently.  This way the grass will out compete the weeds.


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## sportbikerider78 (May 29, 2016)

blades said:


> If your out in the country you can get away with that but in the burbs we have to deal with the local weed patrol wardens! And uppity neighbors and the like.


...that's why I live in the country 

I can park my car on said front lawn, build a shed, tune up a dirt bike at 2am (with a garage full of roudy friends), mow the lawn at 6am, then shoot targets till i run out of ammo.


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## Babaganoosh (May 29, 2016)

sportbikerider78 said:


> ...that's why I live in the country
> 
> I can park my car on said front lawn, build a shed, tune up a dirt bike at 2am (with a garage full of roudy friends), mow the lawn at 6am, then shoot targets till i run out of ammo.



I really need to move.


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## EatenByLimestone (May 29, 2016)

There are 2 types of seeds.    Dicots and monocots, to be short.  A monocot, like corn or grass, has a 1 piece seed.  Have you ever split a peanut in half, or seen the 2 half's of the seed come up when a bean grows?  That is a dicot.  Dicots can be killed, leaving the monocot plants alone.   Any broad leaf weed killer will work.  An effective one sold at the big box stores is weed be gone.   You'll want to plant grass in the spaces before new undesirable plants take advantage of the bare ground.


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## Lake Girl (May 29, 2016)

For the health conscious who live out in the sticks (no pesky neighbours), you can use your dandelion greens in your salad!  More nutrients than spinach.  Found this out when we had a guinea pig when the kids were little.  Dandelion greens were an important part of his diet...
http://foodfacts.mercola.com/dandelion-greens.html
http://www.incrediblesmoothies.com/...-use-dandelion-greens-in-your-green-smoothie/


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## Sprinter (May 29, 2016)

EatenByLimestone said:


> Have you ever split a peanut in half


Yes, but they are immediately eaten, so I never asked them their name


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## Sprinter (May 29, 2016)

Lake Girl said:


> For the health conscious who live out in the sticks (no pesky neighbours), you can use your dandelion greens in your salad!  More nutrients than spinach.  Found this out when we had a guinea pig when the kids where little.  Dandelion greens were an important part of his diet...
> http://foodfacts.mercola.com/dandelion-greens.html
> http://www.incrediblesmoothies.com/...-use-dandelion-greens-in-your-green-smoothie/


You know, I've always known that, but never tried it,  Maybe I'll go out and pick some tomorrow.  God knows, there are plenty of them!


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## firefighterjake (May 30, 2016)

Lake Girl said:


> For the health conscious who live out in the sticks (no pesky neighbours), you can use your dandelion greens in your salad!  More nutrients than spinach.  Found this out when we had a guinea pig when the kids where little.  Dandelion greens were an important part of his diet...
> http://foodfacts.mercola.com/dandelion-greens.html
> http://www.incrediblesmoothies.com/...-use-dandelion-greens-in-your-green-smoothie/



For us it was a rite of Spring . . . my grandmother loved fresh dandelion greens in the Spring and us grand kids would go out to her front lawn and help pick her a mess of them. I remember she preferred them before they flowered as it made the greens more bitter or something like that.


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## Lake Girl (May 30, 2016)

Grandma knew a good, inexpensive source of vitamins and minerals!  Locally sourced too  I could swear some of the salads I've had in fancier restaurants had dandelion greens...


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## jatoxico (May 30, 2016)

My brother in law the chef used to do a dandelion and venison dish. Flavors went well together.


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## Buzz Saw (May 30, 2016)

jeffesonm said:


> I read it's good to mow your grass tall, and more frequently.  This way the grass will out compete the weeds.


x2. Set your mower 2 inches higher (or what ever works)and over seed for a season or two. The grass will kill off the weeds in time.


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## semipro (May 31, 2016)

jeffesonm said:


> I read it's good to mow your grass tall, and more frequently.  This way the grass will out compete the weeds.


I get the "tall" but why "more frequently"


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## jatoxico (May 31, 2016)

semipro said:


> I get the "tall" but why "more frequently"


Frequently so you're not removing too much at a time.


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## Lake Girl (May 31, 2016)

Interfers with the bloom cycle of the dandelions?  Can't bloom, can't go to seed?


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## jatoxico (May 31, 2016)

Lake Girl said:


> Interfers with the bloom cycle of the dandelions?  Can't bloom, can't go to seed?


That's prob a benefit too although my obnoxious weeds seem to sprout above the grass overnight. Always heard the rule of thumb was not to remove more than 1/3 of the grass at any given time or it causes too much stress. So you can remove 2" from 6" high grass but only 1" from 3" high grass.


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## mwhitnee (Jun 1, 2016)

sportbikerider78 said:


> How about this?
> 
> http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/gordons-amine-400-2-4-d-weed-killer-1-gal



Does 2-4-D kill new grass seed?


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## Jags (Jun 6, 2016)

mwhitnee said:


> Does 2-4-D kill new grass seed?


It wont kill the seed, but it can be tough on new growth.  If mixed too heavy it will sting well established grass.


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## mwhitnee (Jun 6, 2016)

My yard is too big for a hand sprayer I think, wonder what it would cost to have someone spray 2-4-D for me, or rent something.


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## Dougsey (Jun 6, 2016)

You can use a hose end sprayer if you have enough hose to reach.


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## Buzz Saw (Jun 6, 2016)

mwhitnee said:


> My yard is too big for a hand sprayer I think, wonder what it would cost to have someone spray 2-4-D for me, or rent something.


Be cautious of hand spraying. Hand spraying is one of the leading causes of over application.  Farmers machines are calibrated bases on land speed vs application rate.  What that means is if you travel at 3mph "x" is apllied. 6 mph is 2x.  X is based off the chemicals instructions.


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## muncybob (Jun 7, 2016)

Something I do and it has paid off big time, each spring I go to the local feed store and get a couple bags of corn gluten meal. The areas that I have spread this have much fewer weeds each year compared to the rest of the "yard"(3+ acres). It acts as a pre-emergent so it needs to be put down in early spring and maybe even early autumn. A side benefit is that as it decomposes into the soil it adds a kick of nitrogen.  You can't stop weed seeds from gaining entry into your grass but you can help prevent the vast majority of them from ever germinating and not use any toxins. Keep in mind this will also prevent grass seed from growing too so don't use within a month or so of putting down the seed.


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## maverick06 (Jun 9, 2016)

SEED
Buy the right seeds, do your research. I live in PA, and my lawn was having issues (it still has lotf of weeds, but I was having issues with the grass growing). Penn State did a very serious research project and the long story short was Perrenial Rye Grass was the right grass for the majority of the state. The other types all had their faults.

Many grass seed packets designed to quickly patch the lawn will do so, but the grass isn't good quality and the life of the plants it grows is short, why you get the die off a few years later.

I have put down perennial rye in some new lawn areas fall before last. Last year the grass was very juvenile still. This year those areas has really come into its own. Lets see after 5 years.... but for now, I suggest do your research to find which seed works good for your area. Don't just read the back of the bag at home depot.


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## Babaganoosh (Jun 9, 2016)

On a side note unless you throw down sod, a nice lawn is a marathon not a sprint.


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## ncpaul (Jun 9, 2016)

A side note about weed and feed type products. Believe you are in a northern state but those farther south where centipede is common, these products consider centipede a weed and kill it.


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## Ashful (Jun 9, 2016)

4 acres of golf course-quality lawn here.  Marking to read tonight.  What's your budget?  I spend $800 - $1000 per acre per year on fertilizer and seed, and couldn't see getting really nice results for too much less than that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dobish (Jun 13, 2016)

this is what my yard looked like on saturday morning....  i really have no idea where to start.


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## Dobish (Jun 13, 2016)

I rented a Billy Goat Brush Hog, and went to town. A few hours later, I was ready to do some weed whacking.


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## Ashful (Jun 13, 2016)

Holy crap.  Well, here's the real short version of how to get a perfect lawn in a few easy steps.  It basically comes down to four rounds of fertilizer, two weed sprays, one round of overseeding, and possibly one soil ammendment per year.

1.  Find a local turf company.  Best way is call the groundskeepers house at your local golf course, and ask where they buy their seed and fertilizer.  They work early hours this time of year, so catch them early in the AM.

2.  Get a soil sample.  At a minimum, you need to get your pH in a good range before spending any $$ on fertilizer and seed.

3.  Get your grub and insect control down in the next two weeks.  Around here we use Allectus in a 16-0-0 fertilizer mix.

4.  Might as well do the soil amendment (pH adjust, eg. Physiocal) now, as well, as any money spent on fertilizer and seed will be wasted if pH isn't right.  Warning, this can be a LOT of material, to the tune of 1000 lb./acre, if your pH is off more than a few tenths.  Good thing is, it's very cheap.

5.  Come mid-August, or whenever your grass is past the summer stress, spray lawn weed killer.  We usually use Surge.

6.  Four weeks after lawn weed killer, run the plug aerator, then overseed and starter fertilizer the entire property.  This is the one real big $$ expense of the year, as good seed ain't cheap.  Make sure you choose a seed that will weather your local conditions well, since again... it's not cheap.

7.  November, put down your winterizer fertilizer.

8.  As soon as the snow melts (March, around here), collect your annual soil sample, and get your pre-emergent weed and feed (eg. Prodiamine) down.  Adjust your application rate to have it fully played-out before September's over-seeding.  Take soil sample to turf company for analysis.

9.  Put down whatever soil amendment (pH adjust) the soil analysis recommends.  This will be less than the prior year.

10.  Late April, second round of fertilizer.  This can be combined with weed killer, to get the weeds that do come up, or you can spray separately (eg. Escalade2).

11.  Hey... we're back to June, see Grub control with fertilizer.

Time invested = 4 hours per acre per year
Money invested = $400 per acre per year without seeding ($1000 per year with seeding)


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## maple1 (Jun 14, 2016)

I prefer to just run the ride-on over it every week and a half or so....


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## Ashful (Jun 14, 2016)

Some prefer to drive dirty cars, too.  We've all got our "things".


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## maple1 (Jun 15, 2016)

My dirty-car lawn looks pretty good, actually - thanks.

Unless I miss a mowing or two - then it gets to looking a bit haggard. 

I must confess a little bit however - I did buy a de-thatcher last year to drag around before things get too green in the Spring. I missed my window for it this year though.


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## muncybob (Jun 15, 2016)

Wow! Some folk are really serious about obtaining the "prefect" lawn...and that's fine... it's just not for me. Yep, my car is dirty most of the time(but I live on a gravel/dirt road so it's a lost cause).
We tend to keep the grass that's close to the house and decks in really good/fairly weed free condition but even the more weedier grass when kept mowed doesn't look all that bad from a distance(which is how it is viewed 99% of the time).

We must be doing something right as most people that visit usually comment on what a nice piece of heaven we have here.


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## Lake Girl (Jun 15, 2016)

muncybob said:


> even the more weedier grass when kept mowed doesn't look all that bad from a distance(which is how it is viewed 99% of the time).


Sounds like my corner yard ... it's green just don't look too close as you will see it has weeds and wild flowers thrown in  It's taken years to get it that far... in-fill, level, black dirt, grass seed.  No house there so we have a hard time keeping folks out of there.  We've had fish houses, campers, Hydro One truck with pole trailer, and kids running around on 4 wheelers and snowmachines.  Lost a blue spruce to kids on a snow machine.

Looked good last year ... held my son's wedding there!


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## semipro (Jun 15, 2016)

muncybob said:


> Wow! Some folk are really serious about obtaining the "prefect" lawn...and that's fine... it's just not for me. Yep, my car is dirty most of the time(but I live on a gravel/dirt road so it's a lost cause).
> We tend to keep the grass that's close to the house and decks in really good/fairly weed free condition but even the more weedier grass when kept mowed doesn't look all that bad from a distance(which is how it is viewed 99% of the time).
> 
> We must be doing something right as most people that visit usually comment on what a nice piece of heaven we have here.


Based on the apparent size of the dog in your Avatar you have some serious amounts of 'fertilizer' being applied though.


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## Dobish (Jun 15, 2016)

my front is finally starting to shape up... apparently there is something to this "watering" aspect.... we had dirt and crabgrass and clover, and then we put in sod a few years ago (free, so the price was right). we ended up having to cut up a few sections and replaced them, and I have been trying to fill in a few low spots and bald spots this year.... 



the front definitely looks better than the back and the side. I was a little jealous of the neighbors down the way with the "perfect" lawn, until they told me how much they water!


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## Lake Girl (Jun 15, 2016)

No way around it, the "perfect lawn" is gonna cost ya  Either it's seed or fertilizer or water or the sweat off your brow to keep it trimmed....


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## Ashful (Jun 15, 2016)

I spend more gas money on my mower in summer, than in my car, and my car averages 12.4 MPG.  Not sure which is more fun to drive.


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## Jags (Jun 20, 2016)

I do nothing to encourage grass to grow.  Mowing is lost time to me.  Actually my favorite time of the year is when the grass turns a perfect shade of brown and gets crunchy.


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## begreen (Jun 20, 2016)

We've been dry since the winter deluge stopped at the end of March. The lawn is already slowing down and browning. Fine by me.


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## maple1 (Jun 20, 2016)

Jags said:


> I do nothing to encourage grass to grow.  Mowing is lost time to me.  Actually my favorite time of the year is when the grass turns a perfect shade of brown and gets crunchy.



Lost but a necessary evil, I guess. I found last year that a radio headset/ear muff thing helps with that quite a bit, after getting one for Dads Day.

I don't really like what dry spells do to other things. The water level in our well, and fire hazard for a couple - but I would have to agree that I don't really mind what they do to our lawn.


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## begreen (Jun 20, 2016)

+1 on the radio ear muffs. Years ago I had to make my own. So nice that now you can get a pre-made set. They work pretty well.


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## Buzz Saw (Jun 20, 2016)

begreen said:


> +1 on the radio ear muffs. Years ago I had to make my own. So nice that now you can get a pre-made set. They work pretty well.


Just bought a pair with bluetooth.  I can listen to music from my phone while mowing and can take a phone call.  It's actually fairly decent to talk on the phone with the mower deck engaged and at full throttle.

I like 'em.


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## johneh (Jun 21, 2016)

I gave up about 15 years ago trying to have a nice lawn
would get it looking good and we would have a dry summer
and I refuse to try and water 2 1/2 acres . over seeded the
front 1 1/2 acre  with white clover now stays green all
summer don't have to mow often wild flower abound
deer love it and have had some good comments on it
Perfect to  me  but then again I live in the boonies


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## begreen (Jun 21, 2016)

http://www.chelseagreen.com/blogs/heather-flores-wasted-on-grass/


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## jatoxico (Oct 15, 2016)

Ended up doing a refurb on my lawn this year (1 acre). Weeds were starting get to be too much. Mostly clover, creeping Charlie and prostrate knotweed. Three weeks ago I hit it with Ortho liquid weed killer which did a fine job. Then I did a full depth plug aeration a couple weeks later.

This weekend I cut it short and bagged the clippings then over seeded and lightly aerated again to work the seed in. Lawn looks a little rough now.

I used tall fescue seed which is supposed to need less water and fertilizer. Only concern I have now is that I hope I got it down in time to germinate and grow enough to survive the winter.


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## Ashful (Oct 16, 2016)

Did the same here, two weeks ago, as I do every year. Unfortunately, I think it was wasted money for me this year, as we had a week of rain prior to seeding, but none since. Several nights in the 30's last week, but I'm hoping for warm and wet this week!

Tall fescue is a very good choice for your climate. I use the same, and it holds pretty good. Just watch for snow mold, and keep your pH and nutrients at recommended levels. A yearly soil test is key, since they'll tell you how to adjust your pH and fertilizing from one year to the next. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jatoxico (Oct 16, 2016)

Ashful said:


> Did the same here, two weeks ago, as I do every year. Unfortunately, I think it was wasted money for me this year, as we had a week of rain prior to seeding, but none since. Several nights in the 30's last week, but I'm hoping for warm and wet this week!
> 
> Tall fescue is a very good choice for your climate. I use the same, and it holds pretty good. Just watch for snow mold, and keep your pH and nutrients at recommended levels. A yearly soil test is key, since they'll tell you how to adjust your pH and fertilizing from one year to the next.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


With the colder temps and lack or rain you may get mostly spring germination. I know some people seed late trying to do exactly that. You've probably heard of this but the idea is the seed lies dormant and gets pressed down over the winter by snow and leaves leading to high rate of germination in spring.

If I didn't have bare spots I would have waited until later myself. I need to fertilize as evidenced by the clover and a soil test is a good idea. I should grab a few plugs off the lawn.

As far as seeding this late, luckily I have a sprinkler system and have been watering lightly 2X a day. Long Island, being surrounded by water moderates our temps in the early fall relative to being inland quite a bit so I'm hoping for success. If the seed takes and survives the winter I can treat for weeds and crabgrass right off the bat next spring.

As far as fescue its a first for me. I over seeded with rye a few years ago albeit with less prep and watering. Results were OK but the rye is not supposed to be quite as drought/heat tolerant and not as good for a range of sun and shade.

How high are you cutting the fescue? I try to keep what I have on the longer side but it tends to lay down and shows wheel marks from the ride on mower where the grass gets pressed down by the tires, then doesn't get lifted for the cut.


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## Ashful (Oct 16, 2016)

My mow height varies as weather dictates.  I mow longer during summer heat and drought (4.25" to 4.50"), but always end the year mowing short (3.5").  It's tough going short without scalping, given my larger mower decks (60" and 72") and hilly terrain.   The shortest mowing (3" or less) is immediately before annual reseeding at end of September. 

Rye germinates faster and more reliably than fescue, but won't survive our summers as well, here. Watering a lawn the size of mine would take over 80,000 gallons per week, way beyond the capacity of my well. So, we have to live with drought-tolerant grasses, and yearly over-seeding. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jatoxico (Oct 16, 2016)

I don't do the 1" water per week thing. I try to be more careful with water use as do as I think its needed. Still I'm sure I use a goodly amount. But water is cheap around here.

In ground irrigation sure is handy for times like this.


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## Swedishchef (Oct 18, 2016)

sportbikerider78 said:


> I have no desire to have a perfect lawn.  I live in the country and really don't care.  What I want is a lawn that does not consist of 50% dandelions and other weeds that all grow at totally different rates.  Two days after I mow it looks like I never mowed because there is all kinds of stuff growing out there...I call it my field...not a lawn.
> 
> How do I start killing the weeds and planting seed?  I have moist soil and we get plenty of rain, but short growing season.
> 
> Thanks!


This is very old thread but here's my 2 cents.

Before moving to the Arctic, I had one of the nicest lawns in my town. Everyone would comment about it. Considering I had started it from scratch (topsoil and hand seeded), I was happy to hear the compliments.

I applied $150 of fertilizer per year (spring, summer, fall). Prior to that I had it treated to kill all the weeds. I added a bag of seed every year for 4 years after the initial seeding. Essentially the key is simple: if you have a thick, healthy grass weeds won't be able to infiltrate very easily. However, due to the fertilizer I would have to mow every 3 days. Hence why I bought a nice ride on lawn mower.

For me it was simple: I knew I would need to sell my house sooner than later and a yard/lawn is a first impression. So what's $500 invested when you get to sell your house?

Andrew


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## Ashful (Oct 19, 2016)

Ditto, although with my larger yard, you can 6x that yearly investment.  Also, the contrast between my very nice yard and the neighbors' poorer lawns (posh neighborhood) guilted most of the neighbors to start spending more on their lawn care, so it has really made the whole neighborhood look much nicer.  With most of them much closer to selling than me (I'm 20 years younger than the rest of the neighborhood), they will all benefit.


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## SeanBB (Oct 20, 2016)

Earlier this season I bought a new lawnmower that had a mulching option. What a difference it makes. No grass box to empty, no grass cuttings to dispose of. No starting and stopping the engine when the grass box is full. And most of all the lawn is much better. I do need to cut the grass a little more frequently (it grows quicker with the mulch acting as fertilizer) but overall I am sure it still saves time. See article below:

http://www.mulching.co.uk/


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## rippinryno (Oct 20, 2016)

Jags said:


> That will work for the 24D part.  It is not farmer grade (if you can buy it without a license - it ain't farmer grade), but it will still work.  The Banvel part is still missing.  Banvel will go after stuff that the 24D doesn't.  Depending on the time of year, the 24D won't do much against creeping charlie (as one example).  Banvel will.  I don't know if there is a consumer grade equivalent to Banvel.  It may be worth a minute on google to find the active ingredient to see if there is a cross reference to the stuff in the stores.
> And YES - you can mix them in the same sprayer so that it is a one application and done.



the only thing that makes something farmer grade is that it's still under a patent and can't be sold in stores.  It's got nothing to do with strength or quality.  Roundup was the same way before their patent expired.   At most farm stores you can get just as good of stuff as a  farmer can get, but the quantity obviously is not the same.  The reason you need a license for herbicides and farm chemicals is for application, not for purchase reasons.  Again, you can get the same stuff at the farm stores.


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## Ashful (Oct 20, 2016)

rippinryno said:


> the only thing that makes something farmer grade is that it's still under a patent and can't be sold in stores.  It's got nothing to do with strength or quality.  Roundup was the same way before their patent expired.   At most farm stores you can get just as good of stuff as a  farmer can get, but the quantity obviously is not the same.  The reason you need a license for herbicides and farm chemicals is for application, not for purchase reasons.  Again, you can get the same stuff at the farm stores.


I buy many commercial fertilizers, herbicides, and fungicides that are labeled only for licensed application.  I believe the loophole is that I am purchasing for personal use, not commercial application.  It seems that the local interpretation is that they could not sell this product to a landscaper, looking to apply it to a customer's property without proper licensing, but they can sell it to me if I'm only applying it to my own lawn.


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## rippinryno (Oct 20, 2016)

that is exactly right.  As I said, you can buy them without a license, it's the application process that will require the license.


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## jatoxico (Oct 22, 2016)

We have lift off on the new seed. Now just need about 3 more weeks before a frost. Thinking maybe some Miracle grow would be in order.


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## Swedishchef (Oct 22, 2016)

Even if you have seed there in the winter, the spring thaw will help it germinate. Then again too much water from the snow melting could rot the seeds.



A


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## Lake Girl (Oct 22, 2016)

Lawn gurus, what do you recommend for moss infiltration?


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## jatoxico (Oct 23, 2016)

Swedishchef said:


> Even if you have seed there in the winter, the spring thaw will help it germinate. Then again too much water from the snow melting could rot the seeds.
> 
> 
> 
> A


Alright an Andrew sighting! Hoping the majority of seed/grass gets established now so I can treat for crabgrass and weeds in the spring w/o having to wait. Been so bad about getting down crabgrass pre-emergent and I'm paying the price. Good to hear from you. Hope your enjoying the adventure!


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## Ashful (Oct 26, 2016)

Lake Girl said:


> Lawn gurus, what do you recommend for moss infiltration?


As a kid, I remember we had some mossy areas on my parent's property, and we made a conscious decision to leave it, then.  These were shady areas where grass did not grow well enough to keep clover and weeds at bay, whereas the moss seemed to do a good job of it.  The only difficulty we had was that the moss is fragile, and easily damaged with traffic / mowers.

If this is an area that can sustain grass, then there are products like "Moss Out", designed to eradicate moss from your lawn, without killing existing grass.  I have no experience with it myself, but you can check it out here.


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## lml999 (Oct 27, 2016)

If you have a well, as I do, be very careful about what you put on your lawn! 

As others have suggested, proper mowing and overseeding, along with some basic organic boosting (corn gluten, chicken poo, etc) will help the grass to crowd out the weeds. It takes a couple of years, but results in a much more robust lawn.


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## muncybob (Oct 27, 2016)

semipro said:


> Based on the apparent size of the dog in your Avatar you have some serious amounts of 'fertilizer' being applied though.


 You should see what our horses produce


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## lml999 (Oct 27, 2016)

muncybob said:


> You should see what our horses produce



No sh_t!


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