# Quadrafire Classic 1200 shutting off



## joe_pinehill (Jan 7, 2012)

My Classic 1200 is shutting down when it should stay on.  I'll restart it, the RED call light turns on, it feeds, ignites, and then shuts down anywhere from 10 minutes to an hour after the start sequence.   I keep it very clean, strip it down ever couple weeks , clean vents.  Door gasket was recently replaced.  

Is this a symptom of the vacuum switch?


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## jtakeman (Jan 7, 2012)

If it was the vacuum switch it wouldn't feed pellets at all. I'm betting its the thermalcouple and it should have a error light on the control board once it stops.


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## joe_pinehill (Jan 7, 2012)

can you give me some guidance on where to look for the error light?


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 7, 2012)

I don't know where the control box is in your stove but I might be able to help you fix the issue.

Make certain the end of the t/c is up against its shield.


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## joe_pinehill (Jan 7, 2012)

I looked at the controller, looks like a sealed unit, only display is the call light.  I took the vacuum hose off the switch, blew into the hose (not the switch), took a lot off effort, .


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## kinsmanstoves (Jan 7, 2012)

it could be the venting, if it is clogged it will trip the pressure switch. Are you sure the venting is clear or you think the venting is clear? That is the first place to look.

Eric


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## joe_pinehill (Jan 7, 2012)

I double check, but I cleaned it yesterday, banged on the flue until soot stopped coming out. 

Is it worth replacing the two snap discs?


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## tjnamtiw (Jan 7, 2012)

joe_pinehill said:
			
		

> I looked at the controller, looks like a sealed unit, only display is the call light.  I took the vacuum hose off the switch, blew into the hose (not the switch), took a lot off effort, .



I use a can of air normally used to blow out keyboards, etc.  *It shouldn't be difficult to blow through*.  If it is, your nipple that the hose hooks to on the drop chute may be clogged.  It happens to me a couple times a season.  Just stick a piece of wire in it to dislodge any buildup.


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## DexterDay (Jan 7, 2012)

What setting are you running on? How far opened/closed is the feed plate in the hopper? And like others have stated, make sure vent is clean, nipple for vacuum line isnt plugged, and ash trap in the back of stove (bottom right side/little square cover with 4 screws) is free of ash accumulation. Thermocouple should touch the inside of the ceramic cover and stick out 1/2" over sidewall of firepot (actual pot wall, not the round part up top).


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## rparker (Jan 7, 2012)

Are you checking for bridging of the pellets over the feed?  Next time it shuts down, move the feed slide. If you hear pellets drop, the pellets are getting hung up over the feed.  Had this problem with same stove and this was it. 
Also check the snap disk connections.  Had an issue with this. One of the push-on connectors was barely tight enough to make contact.


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## tjnamtiw (Jan 7, 2012)

rparker said:
			
		

> Are you checking for bridging of the pellets over the feed?  Next time it shuts down, move the feed slide. If you hear pellets drop, the pellets are getting hung up over the feed.  Had this problem with same stove and this was it.
> Also check the snap disk connections.  Had an issue with this. One of the push-on connectors was barely tight enough to make contact.



They can also hang up at the top of the drop chute.  That's where most of my bridging occurred.


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## joe_pinehill (Jan 8, 2012)

joe_pinehill said:
			
		

> My Classic 1200 is shutting down when it should stay on.  I'll restart it, the RED call light turns on, it feeds, ignites, and then shuts down anywhere from 10 minutes to an hour after the start sequence.   I keep it very clean, strip it down ever couple weeks , clean vents.  Door gasket was recently replaced.
> 
> Is this a symptom of the vacuum switch?




Update, more trouble shooting.  I checked the Thermocouple, reads about 250mA when the fire is going, so it should be ok.  Snap switches are working, one turns the convection fan on, #2 is the shut off, I jumpered #2, and no change. 

The auger is going in reverse intermittantly. Should a Quadrafire auger reverse?  the revers turning is keeping the pellets from feeding, and I think this is causing the fire to go out. 

One post suggested the capacitor failing could cause the auger to turn in reverse, and replacing it fixed the problem.  

Any more suggestions on trouble shooting?  Ive scheduled a service call for the 16th, but would like to avoid that.


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## DexterDay (Jan 8, 2012)

Quads have had a problem reversing in the past. 

Sounds like you found your problem.....


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 8, 2012)

You need to replace the capacitor on that motor, it is shot it starts the motor going in the proper direction.


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## tjnamtiw (Jan 8, 2012)

Call your dealer and get the 'fix'.  It is a simple capacitor and plugs that fit right in between the existing plug.  No soldering or anything else.  I believe it's the same fix as on my Quads. 

http://www.blackswanhome.com/product/1712

http://www.stove-parts-unlimited.com/Quadrafire_Feed_Motor_Capacitor_Rep_Jumper_p/230-2150.htm


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## joe_pinehill (Jan 8, 2012)

Does anyone know the size of the capacitor?  I'll order one, but if I have the size, I can try and get one from Radio shack.


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## tjnamtiw (Jan 8, 2012)

joe_pinehill said:
			
		

> Does anyone know the size of the capacitor?  I'll order one, but if I have the size, I can try and get one from Radio shack.


.   Just buy the online replacement! It plugs right in and you don't have to remove the old one.


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## joe_pinehill (Jan 8, 2012)

yes, I ordered one today, if it solves the problem, i'll post an update


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## tjnamtiw (Jan 8, 2012)

joe_pinehill said:
			
		

> yes, I ordered one today, if it solves the problem, i'll post an update


if  like you said the auger was running backwards, that should solve it.  Did you talk to the people and make sure your model was covered?


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## joe_pinehill (Jan 8, 2012)

yes I did talk to local dealer, ordered one from them and online slow mail, install the first that arrives.  If it fails after three years, probably worth having a spare.


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## tjnamtiw (Jan 9, 2012)

joe_pinehill said:
			
		

> yes I did talk to local dealer, ordered one from them and online slow mail, install the first that arrives.  If it fails after three years, probably worth having a spare.



Here I am going to tell you that's a smart move and I sit here with TWO Quads and NO spares!!   :red:


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## mralias (Jan 9, 2012)

Do all CB1200 and CB1200i's have the potential for this issue???? If so I may want to order one of those bad boys myself.


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## tjnamtiw (Jan 9, 2012)

mralias said:
			
		

> Do all CB1200 and CB1200i's have the potential for this issue???? If so I may want to order one of those bad boys myself.



After reading a lot of posts over the last couple of years about Quad augers running backwards, I would say that, yes, it has the potential for being an issue for the 1200's as well as the Sante Fe's and Castile's.


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## joe_pinehill (Jan 10, 2012)

Back ordered at Black Swan in CT got a back ordered email this morning, and checked Green Mountain online, back ordered. I called Woodheatstoves.com, they touched the part, and I ordered from them. I don't think the dealers stock a lot of inventory, and when the season hits, its first come first serve. Hopefully I'll get it by Wednesday. If you have a Quadrafire stove, order one to keep one on hand, if you plan to own your stove more than 5 years, its probably a good investment. 


Now why does the circuit need a capacitor. I suspect that the motor in the pellet stove is an AC Induction Motor which produces torque when the angle between the alternating magnetic field produced by the stator is greater than zero. This is called slip. The article below shows how a capacitor is often included in series with one of the stator windings so as to introduce a phase shift in the stator magnetic field to increase the torque. There are also systems that only include the capacitor in the â€œauxiliary windingâ€ at start-up and switch the cap out with a centrifugal switch in the rotor. See below


www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_2/chpt_13/9.html


I imagine that a shorted cap would reduce the torque significantly and an open cap might do the same. If the cap were a start-up cap then the motor might not even move.

Why does it sometimes move backwards? Iâ€™m guessing because it has been a long time that I thought about these things.

1. In an AC-induction motor, the excitation of the stator coils causes the magnetic field of the stator field to rotate.

2. This rotating magnetic field induces currents in the rotor windings.

3. The current in the rotor winding produces a magnetic field.

4. The when the fields are not coincident there is a torque. When the torque is equal to the drag, in the steady state, the rotor moves at constant speed.

5. When the angle between the two field is positive (positive slip angle) there is a positive torque when there is a negative slip angle the torque is negative.

6. The presence or absence of the cap or a short in the auxiliary winding will affect the phase of the stator magnetic waveform relative to the rotor.

7. I suspect that with a shorted cap depending on the load and the normal â€œphase lead/lag operating pointâ€ one could have the stator/rotor slip angle positive rather than negative with the cap in place so that a negative torque is applied rather than positive, hence the rotation in the opposite direction.

8. If I really knew this stuff I would be writing Wikipedia articles.


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## tjnamtiw (Jan 10, 2012)

Thanks for the service manual!  When you get your jumper, post us what the specs are on that capacitor, please.  Or post a close-up picture of the writing on it.


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## joe_pinehill (Jan 12, 2012)

I replaced the capacitor, the stove is running fine.  


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlBONrA8pmo&feature=youtu.be


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## tjnamtiw (Jan 13, 2012)

That's great news.  Warm house and a spare on the shelf!  I'm glad it was an easy one!  That sure doesn't look like what was in the manual, though!  Interesting..............  More work than I expected and it's also strange about the red wire.............


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## kinsmanstoves (Jan 13, 2012)

joe_pinehill said:
			
		

> I double check, but I cleaned it yesterday, banged on the flue until soot stopped coming out.
> 
> Is it worth replacing the two snap discs?



No


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## tjnamtiw (Jan 13, 2012)

What are the marking on that capacitor?????


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## kilbury (Jan 13, 2012)

tjnamtiw said:
			
		

> What are the marking on that capacitor?????


I don't remember there being any markings on the capacitor, probably a "trade secret". But then again I don't pay much attention to them when I'm installing them.


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## joe_pinehill (Jan 13, 2012)

tjnamtiw said:
			
		

> What are the marking on that capacitor?????



there is no rating marked on the Capacitor.  250MMF is stenciled on it, which could be 250 mega mega farads?  or just a supplier part number.  For what its worth, my local dealer said he rarely changes them.  Unlucky random failure.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 13, 2012)

joe_pinehill said:
			
		

> tjnamtiw said:
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They like most electronics do not like high temperatures.  They tend to do strange things after a long exposure.


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## tjnamtiw (Jan 13, 2012)

joe_pinehill said:
			
		

> tjnamtiw said:
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Judging by all the confirmed reversing feed motors and a lot of other problems that COULD be caused by a reversing feed motor, I would judge it's not as 'unlucky random' as we may think.

a micro micro farad is now called a pico farad.  Instead of using the usual micro symbol (looks like a u with a tail) perhaps they used m..??  250 pico farad is doable.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 13, 2012)

A starting capacitor with 250MMF in its value range is under $18, all of these drift in value over time and temperature, they also become leaky.  This is one area where you stay away from new old stock.


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## joe_pinehill (Jan 14, 2012)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

> A starting capacitor with 250MMF in its value range is under $18, all of these drift in value over time and temperature, they also become leaky.  This is one area where you stay away from new old stock.


  the quadrafire OEM kit was $12 from my local dealer.  I think its good to have a spare.


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## slls (Jan 14, 2012)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

> A starting capacitor with 250MMF in its value range is under $18, all of these drift in value over time and temperature, they also become leaky.  This is one area where you stay away from new old stock.



The Quad cap, is a small none starting cap.


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## joe_pinehill (Jan 14, 2012)

slls said:
			
		

> SmokeyTheBear said:
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  I dont think its a starting Cap either, its to bias the winding/fields to have the motor turn only clockwise.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 14, 2012)

If it is a running cap they are a bit less however they like all capacitors will drift over time when exposed to heat inside the stoves shell.

Prices are based upon a number of factors one of which is the voltage that has be tolerated.


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## Don2222 (Feb 13, 2012)

joe_pinehill said:
			
		

> slls said:
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You are correct on the Capacitor. If the capacitor starts to go, the feed motor will occasionally reverse for no good reason.
A new cap resolves this issue see  http://www.iburncorn.com/new-forum/34-quadrafire/5254-quadrafire-contour-feed-motor-capacitor

Even If you have a stove with the capacitor in the junction box like a contour, the in-line capacitor part # part# 230-2150 from woodheatstoves will bypass the cap in the junction box just by plugging in the wires and resolve the issue!!


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