# How do I get the heat to go upstairs?



## PJS (Nov 5, 2012)

Sorry another question from this newbie...So the stove is burning pellets and heating the basement really well...but my big plan was to get some of that heat upstairs..I even cut in 2 floor registers above the stove..but heat doesn't seem to come up? I don't have a thermostat on the stove so its running constantly i am running on low setting when no one is home and 3-4 when we are home...how long will it take before I feel some heat upstairs? If I cannot get it to heat some upstairs I really don't need to run it as my wife doesn't really go into the basement..Me and the kids do...so I need to make this work if its possible. Thanks in advance for any help or ideas..PJS


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## Trickyrick (Nov 5, 2012)

Well you have the registers.  Put a fan in them.


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## P38X2 (Nov 5, 2012)

Basement installs are usually tricky. Can you leave the basement door open to let heat up? I had a stove in my basement in my previous home. I cut 2 registers in the floor and left the basement door open. The floor registers actually worked as cold air returns. It heated the small 2 story house fairly well but a lot of heat was wasted by having it down there.

Unless you're expecting any heat upstairs to be a "bonus" while the stove heats a room in your basement, you would likely benefit greatly in moving it to your main living level.


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## P38X2 (Nov 5, 2012)

One of the registers was directly above the stove and cold air still poured down it rather than warm air up. You can try using a freshly burned out match or stick incense to watch which direction the smoke flows through the registers. As I said leaving the basement door open is a great start.


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## Don2222 (Nov 5, 2012)

Hello

The key here is getting the Hot (approx 130-150 Deg F) air upstairs. Simply cutting registers only gets the Warm (approx 80 Deg F) air above the stove upstairs from what I found out in my split entry home with a basement pellet stove install. Therefore registers are not quite enough! I found out I needed 6" ductwork with and inline fan actually touching the front of the stove in front of the heat exchanger tubes! That really works!

I use the stairwell for the return air.

See my pics and detail here.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...ting-the-heat-up-one-floor.65315/#post-818344

Here is the ductwork fan
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/anyone-have-trouble-with-their-ductwork-fan.93606/


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## tjnamtiw (Nov 5, 2012)

From what I've read here from those with basement installs, the TRICK is to blow the cold air DOWN the basement steps.  It wants to go down anyway, but a fan helps it.  This will push the hot air up the vents.  That's second hand but someone will be along shortly to perhaps better explain it.  
Also, they will tell you that the first thing to do is insulate the crap out of the walls since your stove is mostly heating very cold walls and floor.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Nov 5, 2012)

For a gravity hot air system to work it needs an air flow loop, this is usually accomplished by cold air falling down on one side of the loop and hot air rising on the other side, the convection fan on your stove can start and maintain this loop if the physical layout of the house allows it. Frequently most will not.

If you expect cutting holes in the ceiling of the room the stove is in to be the only thing you have to do you are wishing for that which will not happen.

Put a fan in those registers you cut and leave a door well away from those registers open (you could even place a fan on the floor facing the stove to help matters along) that goes to the stairwell to the basement.

The cold air has to come down from upstairs but not through those holes in the ceiling of what is now a furnace plenum those are for hot air only. Once you get the loop started things will work much better. It still won't be the same temperature upstairs as downstairs. You can get it close by reducing your heat loss along the loop the air flows, but there will always be a difference.

ETA: In case you don't know it may be a code violation where you are to have cut those holes for this purpose.


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## Trickyrick (Nov 5, 2012)

Actually there are a bunch of things going on.  

1 you can only move air if you can get air to return. 
2 it is usually easier to move cold air back to the stove
3 the basement better be insulated well or that is where the heat is going.

Look at natural flow the augment it. Open doors upstairs and run the ceiling fan


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## saladdin (Nov 6, 2012)

P38X2 said:


> One of the registers was directly above the stove and cold air still poured down it rather than warm air up. You can try using a freshly burned out match or stick incense to watch which direction the smoke flows through the registers. As I said leaving the basement door open is a great start.


 

I use this to check for flow/leaks.

http://www.amazon.com/Smoke-Pencil-...8&qid=1352205645&sr=1-1&keywords=smoke+pencil


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## MCPO (Nov 6, 2012)

If you can get most of the hot air directly out of the stove to blow directly up into one of the floor registers it will work very well.
You can do this utilizing 6" ductwork and a wide narrow sheet metal shroud to capture the air blowing out all or most of the holes in the stove. The other register and / or open door will act as a cold air return
 I do this myself.
Last night it got down to 16 degrees here and my stove on med low kept the house (2400sq ft) at 65.  Of course my basement is finished and insulated. Your mileage will vary and mine is probably a best case scenario for a basement level install..


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## SmokeyTheBear (Nov 6, 2012)

Master Chief PO said:


> If you can get most of the hot air directly out of the stove to blow directly up into one of the floor registers it will work very well.
> You can do this utilizing 6" ductwork and a wide narrow sheet metal shroud to capture the air blowing out all or most of the holes in the stove. The other register and / or open door will act as a cold air return
> I do this myself.
> Last night it got down to 16 degrees here and my stove on med low kept the house (2400sq ft) at 65. Of course my basement is finished and insulated. Your mileage will vary and mine is probably a best case scenario for a basement level install..


 
And like cutting those holes in the ceiling this is also likely to be a no-no code wise and unless your stove was made for direct ducting an improper installation and your stove's safety certifications will likely no longer apply.


ETA: It was chilly here as well last night my stove runs on a t-stat in hi/low mode, it was 21 this morning high is 2 out of five normal heat levels and low is 1- (that is trimmed down from heat level 1) upstairs was 68.2  the two rooms off of the great room were 66, no extra fans and no registers in the ceiling of the stove room.


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## PJS (Nov 6, 2012)

P38X2 said:


> Basement installs are usually tricky. Can you leave the basement door open to let heat up? I had a stove in my basement in my previous home. I cut 2 registers in the floor and left the basement door open. The floor registers actually worked as cold air returns. It heated the small 2 story house fairly well but a lot of heat was wasted by having it down there.
> 
> Unless you're expecting any heat upstairs to be a "bonus" while the stove heats a room in your basement, you would likely benefit greatly in moving it to your main living level.


 

Thanks..was hoping that was not the case...damn


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## PJS (Nov 6, 2012)

P38X2 said:


> Basement installs are usually tricky. Can you leave the basement door open to let heat up? I had a stove in my basement in my previous home. I cut 2 registers in the floor and left the basement door open. The floor registers actually worked as cold air returns. It heated the small 2 story house fairly well but a lot of heat was wasted by having it down there.
> 
> Unless you're expecting any heat upstairs to be a "bonus" while the stove heats a room in your basement, you would likely benefit greatly in moving it to your main living level.


 

Thanks,  yes I have been leaving basement door open as well..


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## PJS (Nov 6, 2012)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> For a gravity hot air system to work it needs an air flow loop, this is usually accomplished by cold air falling down on one side of the loop and hot air rising on the other side, the convection fan on your stove can start and maintain this loop if the physical layout of the house allows it. Frequently most will not.
> 
> If you expect cutting holes in the ceiling of the room the stove is in to be the only thing you have to do you are wishing for that which will not happen.
> 
> ...


 

Thanks Smokey...I am sure it is a violation..but heat is my goal at this point..  appreciate all of your info.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Nov 6, 2012)

PJS said:


> Thanks Smokey...I am sure it is a violation..but heat is my goal at this point.. appreciate all of your info.


 
I just don't want others to read this and think since PJS is doing this it is hunky dory only to discover it isn't at the worst possible time.

This is the second house I've heated using a gravity hot air system, the first was a big honking wood/coal furnace with exactly one floor grate (huge) cold air poured down the outside of the grate and hot air came up the center, the house was a two family that had been converted to a large single family. I had a new lined chimney installed and rebuilt the old gravity hot air furnace that was still there. Cold air return was via the rear stairwell and a grate in an upstairs bedroom at the opposite end of the house and along the floor, you kept your feet up on a footstool in the room with the furnace grate or the piggies caught a chill.


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## PJS (Nov 6, 2012)

PJS said:


> Thanks Smokey...I am sure it is a violation..but heat is my goal at this point.. appreciate all of your info.


 

Do you know where or what kind of fan I should try?  Do they have battery operated fans?
Thanks, PJS


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## SmokeyTheBear (Nov 6, 2012)

PJS said:


> Do you know where or what kind of fan I should try? Do they have battery operated fans?
> Thanks, PJS


 
Last year Mardens had some through floor registers with t-stat controlled booster fans but that isn't likely to be the case now or of help to you. I haven't looked for any, google can be your best buddy for finding things.

Try aireshare for starters.


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## PJS (Nov 6, 2012)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> Last year Mardens had some through floor registers with t-stat controlled booster fans but that isn't likely to be the case now or of help to you. I haven't looked for any, google can be your best buddy for finding things.
> 
> Try aireshare for starters.


 
Thanks


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## Don2222 (Nov 6, 2012)

Hello
I just used plain old heat registers for hvac at home depot and their 6" inline booster fan. Cheap and works super!
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/cat...s=None&Ntpr=1&Ntpc=1&selectedCatgry=SEARCHALL


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## PJS (Nov 6, 2012)

Don2222 said:


> Hello
> I just used plain old heat registers for hvac at home depot and their 6" inline booster fan. Cheap and works super!
> http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/catalog/servlet/Search?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&keyword=6" inline booster fan&Ns=None&Ntpr=1&Ntpc=1&selectedCatgry=SEARCHALL


 
Thank you


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## Hdhogger (Nov 6, 2012)

Scroll down to the air share level to level transfer fan. These will do the job, they're a little pricey but that's up to you.


http://www.tjernlund.com/Hearth.htm


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## slls (Nov 6, 2012)

Rule, put stove where you spend the most time.


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## Hdhogger (Nov 6, 2012)

oldmountvernon said:


> anyone try these?
> alot cheaper here http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/NTESearch?storeId=6970&Ntt=AireShare


 
Looks like Northern is selling cheaper than the manufacturer.


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## MCPO (Nov 6, 2012)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> And like cutting those holes in the ceiling this is also likely to be a no-no code wise and unless your stove was made for direct ducting an improper installation and your stove's safety certifications will likely no longer apply.
> 
> 
> ETA: It was chilly here as well last night my stove runs on a t-stat in hi/low mode, it was 21 this morning high is 2 out of five normal heat levels and low is 1- (that is trimmed down from heat level 1) upstairs was 68.2 the two rooms off of the great room were 66, no extra fans and no registers in the ceiling of the stove room.


Yeah,I shoulda mentioned the legal aspects of cutting holes in the floor .
My floor registers were there from my woodstove burning days and before the stricter building codes.


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## kenstogie (Nov 6, 2012)

Wow, I have the same question, glad I found this thread instead of another same exact thread.    Are there any threads on installing registers? LOL


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## PJS (Nov 6, 2012)

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/how-do-i-get-the-heat-to-go-upstairs.93728/

check out this thread..


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## kenstogie (Nov 6, 2012)

PJS said:


> https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/how-do-i-get-the-heat-to-go-upstairs.93728/
> 
> check out this thread..


 Ummm maybe I am wrong but..................... isn't that the thread we are posting in??


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## daveswoodhauler (Nov 6, 2012)

Are your basement walls insulated? (If not, you are going to have a lot of the heat escape your walls)
Is this a finished basement? Appx Area? I think if you could provide ore info it would help.


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## kenstogie (Nov 6, 2012)

How about one of these???






http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cyclone-Aut...142?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item416dc80c56


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## kenstogie (Nov 6, 2012)

So am I understanding that it may be a code violation to install registers (ie air flow passages) in MY house.  

Why may I ask?

and

Is it a code violation just to think about it too?


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## PJS (Nov 6, 2012)

kenstogie said:


> Ummm maybe I am wrong but..................... isn't that the thread we are posting in??


 
its another one...I had started within another area...


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## dwizum (Nov 6, 2012)

kenstogie said:


> So am I understanding that it may be a code violation to install registers (ie air flow passages) in MY house.
> 
> Why may I ask?


 
A register in a floor that opens directly into the ceiling of the room below provides a very easy path for fire to spread from one level to another VERY quickly.


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## save$ (Nov 6, 2012)

My door to the lower level is open to a split stairwell with 16 ft from the floor to the ceiling.  There is a ceiling fan at the top that is in the winter mode.  At the bottom door there is a floor fan that blows cold air toward the stove.  Cold air drifts down the stairs and is pushed toward the stove.  Lighter warm air is pulled up the stairwell and distributed out on the top floor.   The lower level is insulated very well.
Trying to eat an uninsulated space with a pellet stove can be very dissapointing.


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## Trickyrick (Nov 6, 2012)

kenstogie said:


> So am I understanding that it may be a code violation to install registers (ie air flow passages) in MY house.
> 
> Why may I ask?
> 
> ...


 
In many places yes it is.  for the same reason you must build a house with fire stops in the walls and when renovating an old house you must add them.  Floors act as a barrier to fire.  the idea of having a register turns your house into a Chimney.  I know it is overkill but that is the reason.....

NOTE: in this country YOUR house can become MY house if you do not follow proper code and I get hurt as a result.  Isn't that nice...


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## Travis (Nov 28, 2012)

I know this thread is old, but thought I would share what I have this in my house since I see some posts from this month.

As long as the through floor registers are "boxed" in, to prevent fire from running down the floor joists, that is what is code here. I bought a 25'x25' 3 sided log house with gambrel style roof. The only heat source was a heat exchanger off of the hot water heater with only a discharge air downstairs. In the winter, anything cooler than 20 below, the house would barely be able to stay 60* with the upstairs staying 15* cooler than the lower floor. After only having 45* in the bedrooms upstairs I installed a BK princess. There were 3 through vents to each room upstairs, and I installed a 6" and 8" inline duct fans on a line thermostat with no help at all as a temporary thought/solution to maybe get through the first winter. It did move air, but not enough to make the noise worth listening to and wouldn't even heat the upstairs up 5* more. The round fan sitting in a square hole, doesn't seal from floor to floor, so there is a major efficiency loss. and they are noisy when there is not ducting to absorb the sound.

Since, I have sacrificed the spare room closet a bit, and installed two 6" lines off the main trunk of the heat exchanger, and installed a second thermostat upstairs that only turns the fan on, when it "calls for heat" that discharges into each room and the hallway. If I am going to be gone from the house more than 3 days, I'll turn my water valve on, and have the normal house heat work while I am gone. Having a concrete pad heated by the wood stove, holds a tremendous amount of heat, but heating it with the h20/exchanger never would be warm at all. Now the upstairs is within 5* difference than downstairs, and in the winter I run the wood stove 99.9% of the time. I have blocked the discharge downstairs to allow more of the air to be forced upstairs, and the return air comes through the floor vents now and the stairwell. Since there is decent airflow now, the upstairs thermostat kicks the fan on maybe 3 to 4 times a day, for about 10 minutes. Before I found that a box fan at the bottom and top of the stairwell to be most efficient.

It is completely legal, as long as the floor is boxed in, where there is no air gap. From my experience, there isn't much air transfer as one would think.  Also, one last input, anyone who has a stove that isn't using a fresh air intake, should consider spending the $50-100 for the adapter plate and piping, and use that! I saw a huge difference in how my house behaved to my stove!  The windows and door jams stay dry and have no frost built up from sucking in all the cold air. I know some new homes require the kit because they are too tight and won't even create a draft. Hope that this can help someone.


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## Millsk (Nov 28, 2012)

Home Depot also sells powered vents.


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## Mo Par (Dec 22, 2012)

I have a wood stove in the basement. I installed a boxed in floor register and to help move the air use a 10" fan out of an old dehumidifier. It moves a lot of air and is pretty quiet. I also hang a louvered basement door during the winter season so the cold air will return down the stairwell and I can keep the door closed.


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## DV (Dec 23, 2012)

My stove is ducted straight up. Last night I was laying on the bottom of the stairs headed upstairs and could feel a breeze of cold air running down the bottom of the stairs. This is the "LOOP" Smokey was describing. All my cold air upstairs was being pulled into the basement due to the hot air being forced up. This system is working great for me. My basement is now about 75 instead of 90. main level 70 to 74 and upstairs 68 to 72. Heat pump stays off. My house also has a 2 story foyer that is open all around upstairs so air has plenty of room to move around.


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## TLHinCanada (Dec 23, 2012)

In most jurisdictions you can install a fusible vent (closes with fire).  Maybe to expensive, you'll have to source them.  Remember if you are in violation of code and you have a fire your insurance probably won't pay.  Would be hard to lose your house and find the insurance company won't pay.  Being on the street at this time of year is no fun.


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## Pellet-King (Dec 23, 2012)

pellet stove doesnt put out the raw power of heat like a woodstove, move the pellet upstairs


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