# REALLY steep cliff, erosion control via plants?



## eclecticcottage (Feb 16, 2012)

We live on the shore of Lake Ontario.  Our cliff is getting beat up and we've lost about a foot this winter so far.  It's relatively steep.  Someone prior to us planted some Crown Vetch, but it really hasn't spread much.  I'm thinking of Pachasandra, Periwinkle (Myrtle) or Snow On The Mount.  I think the Pachasanda might be best, as it's north facing so it doesn't get much, if any, direct sun even in the summer.  The waves don't typically reach all the way up (I've never measured but I'd guess it's about 10-15' high).  This past summer we had a decent beach and the water never neared it.  Of course now the level is higher and there's no beach.  I'd like to try to slow the loss (I know I can't stop it).  The cliff is bordered the lake/stone beach on the bottom and mowed lawn on the top, and more cliff belonging to neighbors on either side, so invasiveness via spreading/rooting isn't an issue.  It will be washed away or mowed unless it goes to the sides and I am sure neither neighbor would mind less erosion (neither have anything other than mowed lawn at the top for it to bother either).  I wouldn't even mind if we had to allow it to come up onto the lawn part for a few foot border if it would help it root better.

Thoughts?  I am barking up the right tree with Pachasandra?  Should I try to find some more Crown Vetch?


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## semipro (Feb 16, 2012)

eclecticcottage said:
			
		

> ...  It's relatively steep.  ...as it's north facing so it doesn't get much, if any, direct sun even in the summer.


I think the lack of sunlight will really limit your options.  How about English Ivy?  It doesn't require a lot of light.


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## DAKSY (Feb 16, 2012)

Pachysandra is nearly indestructible & will grow with minimal sunlight.
It spreads by the root system sending out tendrils in all directions with 
plants breaking thru & popping up all over the place. Once it takes hold,
it'll probably do what you want...The problem may be getting enough to 
take hold to do it, before erosion takes it away...


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## Adios Pantalones (Feb 16, 2012)

I would not discount invasive issues.  "Life finds a way"- including chunks getting washed off to who knows where.


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## semipro (Feb 16, 2012)

Apparently Pachysandra is also known as Japanese Spurge.  I planted some this summer on the north side of our house.  We'll see how it goes.


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## pgmr (Feb 16, 2012)

What is the sub-soil of the cliff face composed of?  If it's glacial till, you'll have a difficult time getting much to grow.  You might have to resort to retaining material like staked concrete bags or other type of rip-rap.


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## madrone (Feb 16, 2012)

I've often seen people use concrete chunks free off of craigslist as rip-rap, and plant between them. (and people came from miles away to take my concrete chunks when I busted out my unused RV pad.) 

I don't know about your area, but around here the ivy has spread to the point that it's taking over all the urban wooded areas. Volunteers spend many hours removing it every year and it returns in weeks. I'm trying to give priority to native plants in my own yard.


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## eclecticcottage (Feb 17, 2012)

Pachysandra is available though a plant sale from our county soil and water district, so I don't think it's considered an invasive species here.  I think I might give it a shot-I can get 50 rooted cuttings for @ $20.  The plant sale is specifically for erosion control and conservation practices (wildlife habitat and food).


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## madrone (Feb 17, 2012)

That's great!


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## fishingpol (Feb 17, 2012)

I like Vinca(Periwinkle).  It grows into a dense lush green bed.  It sends out runners to propagate more plants.  I have it on a hill between me at the neighbors that gets little sun due to a large maple and the house shades it.  I wonder if a biodegradable erosion mat may help contain the area until the roots set in?  Just a thought.  


http://www.amazon.com/Curlex-I-Erosion-Control-Blanket/dp/B001FA890W


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## eclecticcottage (Feb 17, 2012)

madrone said:
			
		

> That's great!



I don't remember how I found it, I've known about it for years.  We got lilacs for the old house from them.  They're bare root and small, but cheap.  The lilacs are about 10 years old now and at least 10' tall.  Got 10 for @ $10.  Got some black locusts too, those are probably 20' tall by now and only 6-8 years old!  Probably ordering some butterfly bushes and serviceberry from them, 50 for $39.  If you don't mind waiting for your landscape to grow in a bit, it's a great deal.  I know butterfly bushes usually run $15-$20 a piece for potted 3 footers here.  For $39 for 50, I can wait, considering it would be at least $700 to buy them otherwise!!

Looks like they do the same thing out by you actually- http://www.oregonlive.com/gresham/index.ssf/2011/02/excited_gardeners_snap_up_affo.html http://www.emswcd.org/native-plant-sale

Anyone interested in inexpensive plants should try searching their local county and "soil and water conservation district" or something similar.  It seems to be national.  Around here, if you order ahead of time at least, you have to order in lots, usually minimium of 10.  But hey, you can't beat the price!!


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## madrone (Feb 17, 2012)

How about that. Thanks for finding that, I'll keep an eye out for the next sale.


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## begreen (Feb 17, 2012)

Try for a diverse planting instead of a monocrop. Witch Hazel is very good for hillside erosion control. It will set much deeper roots than pachysandra, though that can grow underneath it. Sumac and redtwig dogwood will also help.


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## eclecticcottage (Feb 17, 2012)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> Try for a diverse planting instead of a monocrop. Witch Hazel is very good for hillside erosion control. It will set much deeper roots than pachysandra, though that can grow underneath it. Sumac and redtwig dogwood will also help.



Whatever we choose has to be a ground cover/very low grower as we don't want to block the view.  It also has to be able to handle a cliff/very steep hill.  It's steep enough that you can't walk down it easily-you pretty much launch yourself down it or use the "steps" we carved into the dirt (we will be building retractable stairs eventually-they can't be built in place or the lake will "relocate" them over the winter).


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## pgmr (Feb 17, 2012)

Does the lake itself actually rise enough to climb up the bank an appreciable amount?  If so, plant material is not going to be sufficient to prevent undercutting of the soil.  You'll need to have solid material like concrete at least as high as the 100 year lake level.


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## eclecticcottage (Feb 17, 2012)

Not really, it might rise a foot or so, and come up about 5-6 feet in waves during a high wind.  I'm not sure it would work, but it's worth a shot.  You need to involve engineers and the EPA to build anything as far as I know, and certain structures are no longer allowed (we looked at a place with what had been a concrete dock and the agent just about lost his mind when he saw it, since it was grandfathered in and could be repaired-apparently you can no longer build a concrete dock according to him).  Which is why I'm trying to figure out how to do it with plants :D

I have jokingly considered "planting" a concrete wall several feet back from the cliff, so it would be there once it eroded back to it.  Or randomly dumping large boulders over the edge.  

In the end we have enough property that unless they really mess with the lake levels, it won't reach the Cottage in our lifetime.  It will reach a point where we will need to take up our lot depth with the town though, considering how that effects our taxes (no use paying takes on land that's in the lake).


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## rideau (Feb 22, 2012)

My parents had the second property in from Pocomo head (facing North) on Nantucket, with a really high essentially vertical wall of sand.  Erosion a major problem along the entire shore.  First thing:my parents didn't let anyone walk on the cliff.  My Dad built an amazingly steep stairway, with a good rail and a landing half way up the dune, anchored way back from the cliff top with an elevated walkway to the top of the stair (about 6 inch elevation.  Bottom of stairs were a good six feet in front of the cliff.  Walkway from house to stairs was winding, to prevent water flow/erosion.  About 20 feet of grass around house, and reast of yard right up to cliff face kept in Beach Plum and Rugosa roses (you can get low creeping roses).  My Mom threw all the seaweed that came up on the beech back on the cliff gor the twenty years they lived there (summers).  Natural grasses began gowing in there. The plants climbed down the cliff.  When they sold the home afytr twenty years theirs was the only dune that had not suffered major erosion.  Theirs had actually built up out to the stairs.  I'd try to duplicate that sort of approach.  DON'T plant grass to the edge of the cliff. I think that's just about the worst thing you can do, other than walking, or worse scrambling, on the cliff.  Make building some kind of a walkway/stairway a priority.  Build it out and hinge the bottom portion, resting it on the beach/lake bottom a few feet out from the cliff.  Try tossing grass clipping and green manures in the cliff.  Native plants will likely gow in and retain the wall for you.  I'm on the Rideau and have elected not to clear anything.  On a woodlot, good 50 feet above the lake, very steep, then gradual fifty feet or so to lake at bottom.  Cleared a winding path following the limestone cliff's inclination, making wide stone steps where necessary from rocks that were there.  We've had no erosion in 36 years.  People who clear and plant grass:  erosion and fertilizer in the lake, which is terrible for the lake..is terrible for Lake Ontario too.  Surprised the Stats isn't making an effort to get residents to leave the shore natural....


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## eclecticcottage (Feb 28, 2012)

I stupidly forgot to add pachysandra to my soil and water conservation district order that I sent in.  I'll try to remember to see if they have any available to buy when we pick up our shrubs.  If they do I'll plant it along the top edge of the cliff and let it creep down over the side on it's own.  

It's illegal to throw grass clippings over the cliff   As for fertilizer, there's a few BIG farms in the area, in the spring you can smell the chemicals in the water on the beach


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## rideau (Feb 29, 2012)

Illegal to throw it ONTO the cliff?   As in compost?  If fertilizer is used on the gass, I understand the restriction. Are you allowed to put seaweed there?  If so,you could collect seaweed from the lake and toss it up.  Leaves too....Not huge piles, which could cause erosion...just clumps to encourage things to seed in.  You could look for native plants and  toss seeds.  Drove by the Mohawk today.  Scary low.  If it is anything to go by, waves won't be a problem this year and you'll have a good chance to get ahead.  Hope you can find some deep rooted good natives that creep to plant near your cliff top.  Good luck.


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