# Smoke Detectors and Wood Stoves / Inserts



## vgrund (Jul 20, 2008)

I have been thinking about wood stoves and smoke detectors.   It seems to me this could be a Goldilocks situation (not too near, not too far).  My house, as constructed, does not have a smoke detector in the kitchen or family room (they connect in an open floor plan).   I'm sure the idea at the time was to avoid false alarms from cooking (there is a smoke detector on that floor, way on the other side of the house and not in the area the diagram below).  I'm planning to put an insert in the family room fireplace.  Where do you have your nearest smoke detector?

Victor


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## fossil (Jul 20, 2008)

In my workshop (10' ceiling), I have a combo smoke/CO detector mounted on the ceiling less than 5' away from where the stovepipe adapts to the chimney.  It went off once, during my break-in fires when the stove finish was curing, that's the only time.  There are code requirements that address the placement of detectors, and there are specific mounting requirements in the manufacturer's documentation which comes with the detectors.  Rick


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## vgrund (Jul 20, 2008)

Yeah, I read some of the code requirements by Googling the topic.  I didn't see any reference to wood stoves, though, just so many per floor, one in each bedroom, etc.  There is room for interpretation.  This arrangement must have been code compliant in 1999.  I think it may be compliant with current codes, too, because we have a detector on that floor of the house and the rooms I'm asking about are not sleeping rooms.   Anyway, I'm just curious about other people's setups.


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## myzamboni (Jul 20, 2008)

No smoke detector in the living room with the stove, but there is one in the adjacent hallway.  I do have a CO detector plugged in ~5 feet from the stove.


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## begreen (Jul 20, 2008)

Same here, none in the LR or Kitchen, but there is one in the hallway leading to the stairs and my office. We used to have one in the kitchen, but it went off with too many false alarms.


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## aussieblake (Jul 20, 2008)

I am going off of memory the life safety code requires a detector in each sleeping area, the area used enter a sleeping area (hallway, etc.) and one is required for each floor of the dwelling unit. When installing detectors in a house I typically installed them in the required areas, and the laundry room sometimes the utility closet (depending on size of the area). Smoke detectors can give false alarms, a lot of that depends on the technology used in the detector, I believe there are two different types. Putting one in a kitchen could definitely cause false alarms (lots of particulates in the air). Around a wood stove maybe not be the best location either. 

FYI, it has been a couple of years since I have researched the required smoke detectors in a dwelling unit. So PLEASE take this with a grain of salt.

aussieblake


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## N/A N/A (Jul 20, 2008)

The big thing with smoke detectors is keeping them clean. Dirty detectors are more sensitive and tend to give false alarms more.


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## fossil (Jul 20, 2008)

Attend to the batteries...false positives I can live with, but false negatives are a _BAD_ thing.  Rick


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## begreen (Jul 20, 2008)

For us the false positives were boiling pots of pasta water. Triggered the units even when new. Now they are out of the kitchen. 

Right on Rick. I test the units twice a year and replace the batteries with fresh ones every fall, whether they need it or not. I also like the units that beep at you if the battery is getting low.


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## savageactor7 (Jul 20, 2008)

Smoke detectors are upstairs...stove is downstairs in the living room.


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## Tendencies (Jul 21, 2008)

One in the hallway from the living room to the bed rooms, one at the top of the basement steps and attic steps, one in the garage and one in the basement furnace room..

T


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## Jerry_NJ (Jul 21, 2008)

I have a smoke detector at the top of the basement stairs (stove in basement) and one in the upstairs hall way, fireplace/insert in on the main floor, about 25' from the open style foyer and staged stairway to bedrooms.  I have not had a problem with false alarms.  They have gone off on a few occasions, e.g., when I had a bad blow back of smoke while first lighting a fire.


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## myzamboni (Jul 21, 2008)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> I also like the units that beep at you if the battery is getting low.



I don't as they always decide to start beeping at 3am


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## trailblaster (Jul 21, 2008)

I have eight smoke detectors and three CO detectors hardwired with battery backup throughout the house.  One smoke detector is only 6 feet away from the insert and only goes off when I open the door too fast with a dying/choked starting fire which rarely happens.


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## backpack09 (Jul 21, 2008)

I have one in the same room probably 15 feet away. Went off with every fire during paint curing.  But not since.


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## BrotherBart (Jul 21, 2008)

We have the same family room/kitchen layout that you have. Since I was not in the room when a grease fire set the kitchen on fire a couple of years ago there is now a detector on the ceiling dead on the line between the family room where the wood stove is and the kitchen. The only false positives come from the toaster but I am more than willing to live with that.

Kitchens burn down more houses than wood stoves by a huge margin.


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## begreen (Jul 21, 2008)

Guess that's one good about being a vegetarian . Between chimney fires and a grease fire in the past few years that's enough excitement for a lifetime!


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## BrotherBart (Jul 21, 2008)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> Guess that's one good about being a vegetarian . Between chimney fires and a grease fire in the past few years that's enough excitement for a lifetime!



Nah. Chimney fires used to just be part of the routine. In fact when we didn't have one it pissed me off because the chimeny was harder to clean. Grease fire setting cabinets on fire is a whole nuther animal.


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## begreen (Jul 21, 2008)

Good that you made it out alright. Were you able to stop it at the kitchen? 

 My wife's mom had a habit of turning a burner on high and then getting distracted. When I designed the kitchen I put the cooktop with no cabinetry above or to the sides of it. I didn't want any repeat performances.


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## BrotherBart (Jul 21, 2008)

Had to go back into the inferno several times. Finally got it out with extinghishers. Took a year to clean all of that white powder out of the house. Just a few shots in the kitchen and the stuff ended up all over the house. A coating on everything. I now have a battery of extingishers and a fully charged Scott's air pack in the shed.

All happened because I turned the burner on and got a call from a customer. Whoops. Can't blame it on old age. The last time I did the same thing I was 19. Stuck on stupid I guess.

All three floors now have interconnected smoke alarms. One goes they all goes. That day I discovered that my wife can't hear the smoke alarm down stairs with the TV on upstairs. Fixed that. All hell breaks loose all over the house now. When I make toast.


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## jadm (Jul 21, 2008)

My smoke detector is in a hallway leading to our bedrooms and right around the corner from the room that has the insert in it.  Batteries that beep when they are low rather than plug in.

Have CO and smoke detectors in basement in oldest son's room.

Also have a separate CO detector that is plugged in with battery back up.

My units are separate due to the fact that CO hangs out down low due to it's weight while smoke heads up to the highest point due to it's being much lighter.

I also have fire extinguishers in the kitchen and the basement.....

Figure it doesn't hurt to have as much artillery as I can on board. ' Be Prepared' but HOPE we never have to put any of it to use.

 :ahhh:


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## BrotherBart (Jul 21, 2008)

CO has almost the same density as air so it matters not a whit whether the detector is located high or low. The air and CO will mix and move around the house. In fact if the CO is coming from a heat source it would initially rise because it is warmer than the air low in the room.


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## firefighterjake (Jul 22, 2008)

vgrund said:
			
		

> I have been thinking about wood stoves and smoke detectors.   It seems to me this could be a Goldilocks situation (not too near, not too far).  My house, as constructed, does not have a smoke detector in the kitchen or family room (they connect in an open floor plan).   I'm sure the idea at the time was to avoid false alarms from cooking (there is a smoke detector on that floor, way on the other side of the house and not in the area the diagram below).  I'm planning to put an insert in the family room fireplace.  Where do you have your nearest smoke detector?
> 
> Victor



Hi there . . . newbie here . . . well kind of, sort of. I've been lurking here for several days . . . and in the process realized that some of my on-line friends (aka Flying Cow) from other sites and neighbors (folks in Unity, Bangor and Waterville -- where I do most of my shopping) are here as well . . . so I figured I might as well join and contribute when and where possible and since fire safety is well . . . my specialty . . . figured I might as well make a comment or two to this thread.

Oh yeah, I also grew up with my parents using a hot air wood furnace in the 1970s/1980s and when I graduated from college I lived in a small camp that primarily used a woodstove for heat (early 1990s). The wood furnace provided good heat, but it was old tech and of course used a lot of wood (10-12 cords each year) to get us through the winter. The woodstove was also nice . . . but definitely over-sized for the space (it was free) . . . I ended up cooking my goldfish one day and it was not unusual for me to have every window in the place open in middle of a January snowstorm.

In any case I'm just like most other folks right now who are researching their options and getting ready to make a purchase as the price of oil skyrockets (my oil company isn't even providing a locked in price this year for their budget plan -- just stating that they will deliver oil for 5 cents below the daily cash price) . . . plus honestly I've wanted a back-up heating source in my house for some time now.

While I would love to go with an indoor gassification wood boiler down the road, at this stage of the game I'm leaning more towards a woodstove.

OK, that said . . .

In answer to your question . . . as you mentioned, positioning a smoke detector for best use can be a Goldlilocks moment . . . not too close and not too far. As mentioned by others the Life Safety Code 101 adopted by virtually every State requires smoke detectors on every level of the home (including the basement), in hallways outside sleeping areas and in sleeping areas. Those are the basics . . . it usually doesn't hurt to add in more smoke detectors . . . but there are some bad areas in the home (i.e. kitchen, laundry rooms, bathrooms, un-used attics and . . . too close to a woodstove, fireplace, etc.)

What I personally will be doing in my home is installing a smoke detector in the hall which leads to the room with the fire appliance. If there are too many false alarms I will be moving the detector a few more feet away. In either case I will be using one of the newer models that has a hush/silence feature . . . a lot of folks are unaware of these types of detectors . . . in the advent of a false alarm you can simply depress the silencer feature and the alarm will silence itself for five minutes allowing you to clear the room of the smoke, steam, burned toast, etc. After five minutes the detector resets itself -- acting as though you pulled the battery out and then put it back in . . . the only thing is you don't forget to do so . . . all automatic. These detectors can be purchased with 9-volt batteries, a 10-year lithium battery power or you can connect with AC power if your home is so equipped. A new (about 4 years old now) detector is now being sold that uses your TV remote (or stereo remote, DVD remote, etc.) to silence the detector (ideal for cathedral ceilings or high ceilings where it would be a challenge to hit the silence button.) Most of these detectors chirp every every half a minute to let you know that the detector has been silenced . . . and if the smoke/steam/etc. continues to build in the area the detector will go back into the alarm mode.

I hope this may help.


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## firefighterjake (Jul 22, 2008)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> Same here, none in the LR or Kitchen, but there is one in the hallway leading to the stairs and my office. We used to have one in the kitchen, but it went off with too many false alarms.



Most folks in the "business" (fire business that is) do not recommend smoke detectors in the kitchen for the exact reason you mentioned . . . way too easy to have false alarms and false alarms = people associating the noise to a false alarm.

That said . . . one detector manufacturer (which I generally like and respect) actually markets a smoke detector that states it is a kitchen smoke detector . . . even though most folks say to not put a smoke detector in a kitchen.


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## firefighterjake (Jul 22, 2008)

FIREFIGHTER29 said:
			
		

> The big thing with smoke detectors is keeping them clean. Dirty detectors are more sensitive and tend to give false alarms more.



Partially true . . . more so if folks have photo-electric detectors . . . not as crucial with ionization smoke detectors (although it's still a good idea.)

More common is the fact that we recommend folks replace smoke detectors when they hit the ten-year mark. Studies have shown that just like everything else time tends to make things less reliable (i.e. a ten year old vehicle usually is more prone to breakdowns when used every day vs. a one year old vehicle . . . and well . . . I know I'm more prone to breaking things nowadays on myself than I was just five years ago   ). A lot of folks don't realize that they should replace their aging detectors . . . they know to change the battery . . . but don't know about changing the entire detector.


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## firefighterjake (Jul 22, 2008)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> For us the false positives were boiling pots of pasta water. Triggered the units even when new. Now they are out of the kitchen.
> 
> Right on Rick. I test the units twice a year and replace the batteries with fresh ones every fall, whether they need it or not. I also like the units that beep at you if the battery is getting low.



As mentioned kitchens and smoke detectors are a bad combination due to the false alarms.

As for smoke detectors that chirp with low batteries . . . virtually every detector out there offers that feature . . . I believe (but I am not positive) that this may be a standard. Changing out the batteries just once a year like you are doing should alleviate that issue.


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## firefighterjake (Jul 22, 2008)

BrotherBart said:
			
		

> We have the same family room/kitchen layout that you have. Since I was not in the room when a grease fire set the kitchen on fire a couple of years ago there is now a detector on the ceiling dead on the line between the family room where the wood stove is and the kitchen. The only false positives come from the toaster but I am more than willing to live with that.
> 
> Kitchens burn down more houses than wood stoves by a huge margin.



Last statement = 100% true . . . although heating equipment is the top five for fire causes. Incidentally, cooking fires also are the leading cause of fire injuries (i.e. burns and scalds). Of course, many of these fires could be prevented by simply staying in the kitchen while cooking (the leading cause of kitchen fires is due to folks wandering off and getting distracted while cooking . . . particularly in the case of folks frying up food.)


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## firefighterjake (Jul 22, 2008)

BrotherBart said:
			
		

> BeGreen said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I've taught classes here in Bangor where old timers would tell me about stuffing their chimneys full of hay or straw and touching it off to burn out the creosote . . . makes me cringe every time I hear that.

Incidentally, Firefighterjake would be more than happy to share how he and his fellow firefighters extinguish the occasional chimney fire.

First off, as you might guess, most of these chimney fires are due to folks not running their woodstove effectively and not cleaning it.

If you do have a woodstove however the first thing I do is check out the chimney clean out. In most masonry chimneys oftentimes some of the hot ash/creosote falls to the bottom of the chimney next to the clean out. Being careful to not spill the hot ash/creosote on to or near any combustibles . . . open the clean-out door and then put about a tablespoon of water on to the embers. You don't want to place a lot all at once because of course water that is heated turns to heat and steam covers a much wider area than water in its liquid form. The normal updraft often takes the steam up to the chimney and extinguishes it . . . often after a few applications. 

You can also take the hose of any A-rated (ABC dry powder or water extinguisher) fire extinguisher up the clean-out and shoot it up . . . once again allowing the natural updraft to carry the chemical up. 

Personally I prefer Method A to Method B . . . less of a mess or chance of the powder getting to places where I don't want it to go. Plus I don't have to refill a fire extinguisher.

As a last resort we also will go to the roof and/or use "chimney bombs" (plastic baggies full of dry chemical agent which we drop down the chimney on to the embers) and rattle our weighted chain to knock out a particularly bad chimney fire (and trust me some of them are really, really bad . . . plugged up so bad you wonder how the homeowner even managed to get a fire going.) While we're there we typically clean out the chimney . . . but I don't advise you waiting for a chimney fire to get your chimney cleaned . . . especially since Murphy's Law means that the chimney fire will typically occur at 12 midnight, in middle of a January snowstorm with winds blowing by about 20 mph . . . and oftentimes it seems as though we're going up on to steep, metal roofs.   The other reason . . . the chain can and has broken chimney liners . . . ditto for Plan Z which involves sticking a hose down the chimney and opening it up -- too much steam too quickly can result in a broken chimney liner.


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## firefighterjake (Jul 22, 2008)

BrotherBart said:
			
		

> CO has almost the same density as air so it matters not a whit whether the detector is located high or low. The air and CO will mix and move around the house. In fact if the CO is coming from a heat source it would initially rise because it is warmer than the air low in the room.



100% true  . . . for this reason we don't require CO alarms to be at the ceiling height as we do with smoke alarms.

OK, I've been enough of a nuisance on this thread . . . I'll be quiet now and get back to doing some more research here.


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