# NEW SPLITTER MOTOR QUESTION



## jimdeq (Feb 4, 2012)

I just bought a brand new Honda GX 270 8.5 HP motor for my splitter.  I want to couple it to a 16 GPM 2 stage hydraulic pump,but need some help.  I research pumps that are 16 gpm, the difference is the inlet and outlet sizes.  The new motor has a 1" shaft.  Should the hydraulic pump have a 1" shaft also?  I noticed most of them have a 1/2" shaft.  The ram I have is 4" wide with a 24" stroke.  I think the shaft is 1.25 or 1.5".  I dont know the operating pressure on the ram, but I am trying for very fast cycle times.  The Speeco pump 16gpm at fleet farm has a 1/2" shaft  and the Barnes Haldex from google has a 1" shaft at 16GPM.  Which one is better and how much total fluid do I need to run this correctly?


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## bioman (Feb 4, 2012)

jimdeq said:
			
		

> I just bought a brand new Honda GX 270 8.5 HP motor for my splitter.  I want to couple it to a 16 GPM 2 stage hydraulic pump,but need some help.  I research pumps that are 16 gpm, the difference is the inlet and outlet sizes.  The new motor has a 1" shaft.  Should the hydraulic pump have a 1" shaft also?  I noticed most of them have a 1/2" shaft.  The ram I have is 4" wide with a 24" stroke.  I think the shaft is 1.25 or 1.5".  I dont know the operating pressure on the ram, but I am trying for very fast cycle times.  The Speeco pump 16gpm at fleet farm has a 1/2" shaft  and the Barnes Haldex from google has a 1" shaft at 16GPM.  Which one is better and how much total fluid do I need to run this correctly?



       jimdeg, 1/2 " shaft on a 16 pump sounds standard. usually 1" inlet & 3/4" outlet. I've only used Haldex Barnes pumps in the past and had good luck with them. I would think 10 gal. of fluid would be OK. If you don't have a valve yet , you might consider 3/4" work ports for more flow. auto cycle valves are expensive & convenient. flow = speed. 3/4" everywhere is faster than 1/2". hope this helps.


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## bioman (Feb 4, 2012)

here's an address that might be useful.   http://internationalhydraulicsus.com/logsplitter-speed-calculator


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## wkpoor (Feb 4, 2012)

I would think you could find LoveJoy connectors to fit just about any combination of motor to pump shaft you need. AS for the splitter speed I'm with you but why stop at 16GPM. Go ahead and do 22GPM. I have 22 GPM supplying the flow to my 26x4 and I love it. You can always throttle back when you get tired. The 8hp should be enough as 99% of the wood we split breaks at about 200psi then occasionally you will see a piece need 500psi. Above that it will be second stage anyway. My setup uses the Prince PTO pump at 22gpm single stage but I've got 60PTO hp potential.


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## jimdeq (Feb 6, 2012)

Does 3/4" flow in the lines still make cycleing faster even though the ram and cycle valves only have 1/2" ports?


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## wkpoor (Feb 6, 2012)

There have been some real technical serious discussions when I built mine about how it couldn't work to push that much fluid into those 1/2" ports on the cylinder. Only come back I have its been several yrs and its still working fine. All the hydraulic models are based on continuous duty cycles which a hydraulic splitter is not. I'm sure if you tried to stuff 22gm into a 1/2" port at say 1500psi continuously it would over temp quickly but must of the travel is no load. Only a very small portion of the travel exerts load so after all this yes the 3/" lines will increase cycle time if your supplying the gpms.


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## blades (Feb 6, 2012)

3/4" lines coupled to 1/2" ports will not increase speed, they will help to reduce friction which causes heat build up. To increase cycle speed requires higher flow  through the entire system. So the fastest way to decrease cycle time and most cost effective is to increase the pump out put. 3/4" work ports on the valve will help marginally also Hi flow fittings. You still only have a 1/2" ports on the cylinder. Reducing the cylinder size will increase speed at the cost of tonnage.  Larger ports on the cylinder would decrease cycle time by allowing the cylinder to fill faster.  Poor choice dollar wise unless your cylinder is already toast. Personally I would size your hydro tank at least the same as the pump output. Heat is the enemy of hydraulics, the higher the flow rate the more heat will be generated.


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## Jags (Feb 6, 2012)

wkpoor said:
			
		

> I would think you could find LoveJoy connectors to fit just about any combination of motor to pump shaft you need.



Eggzactly.  I just did this as of yesterday (building a smaller, lighter duty log splitter for the cabin).  1" lovejoy for the motor (14.5hp briggs) and a 1/2" lovejoy for the pump (standard 16gpm speeco).

As far as speed is concerned.  I have use nothing but 1/2" hoses on my big splitter with the 16 GPM pump.  No issues.  Matter of fact, on the little splitter I am building - it has 3/8" inputs to the cylinder.  We will see how that goes.  I am not too sure how well 16GPM is going to pass through those.

Other than restricting flow, the size of the hoses don't play into speed.  GPM output of the pump does.


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## wkpoor (Feb 6, 2012)

blades said:
			
		

> 3/4" lines coupled to 1/2" ports will not increase speed, they will help to reduce friction which causes heat build up. To increase cycle speed requires higher flow  through the entire system. So the fastest way to decrease cycle time and most cost effective is to increase the pump out put. 3/4" work ports on the valve will help marginally also Hi flow fittings. You still only have a 1/2" ports on the cylinder. Reducing the cylinder size will increase speed at the cost of tonnage.  Larger ports on the cylinder would decrease cycle time by allowing the cylinder to fill faster.  Poor choice dollar wise unless your cylinder is already toast. Personally I would size your hydro tank at least the same as the pump output. Heat is the enemy of hydraulics, the higher the flow rate the more heat will be generated.


I sized my tank to the output like you said and per the request of Prince Hydraulics and found that to not be good. Again if you were building a hydraulic system that was using 100% duty cycle at full rated capacity then yes, but a splitter isn't close to that. I have a 21 gallon tank and even in the summer I run it half full just so I can get the fluid up to temp. The oil temp should be around 160 degrees. If you have a reservoir matched to the pump GPM and are using the system like a splitter does you will never get there. Remember most wood will split at a very low pressure. And returning the ram is just moving fluid with almost no pressure so heat buildup isn't as much as you would think.
I stand corrected on the line size issue adding speed. I was assuming the lines were being up sized to accommodate the larger pump. My 22gpm feeds the valve with a 3/4 hose but that's mainly in keeping with the outlet port size of the pump.


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## lukem (Feb 6, 2012)

Jags said:
			
		

> wkpoor said:
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Am I the only one that doesn't think of 14.5 HP as little or light-duty?


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## wkpoor (Feb 7, 2012)

> Am I the only one that doesnâ€™t think of 14.5 HP as little or light-duty?


Guess its perspective. I power my splitter with a 60hp JD diesel.


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## MasterMech (Feb 7, 2012)

lukem said:
			
		

> Jags said:
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Sure is a lot of HP for 26 GPM.  My EX27 on the Iron & Oak doesn't even blink at the 16GPM pump.


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## Jags (Feb 7, 2012)

lukem said:
			
		

> Am I the only one that doesn't think of 14.5 HP as little or light-duty?



I'm not sure why you would think so.  Splitter pumps are specifically designed to run much smaller HP than single stage pumps.  That is why they have a high volume/low pressure side AND a high pressure/low volume side.  16GPM 2 stage pump can be run with 8HP (and I do that on my big splitter very successfully).  Fact is - I am OVER hp with the 14.5 and 16 GPM pump.  It just so happens that the donor motor is what it is.

With a single stage pump - 16 GPM @ 2500 psi would require ~ 24HP and I simply don't need to run a 24HP motor to split firewood.  Lots of people out there are doing just fine with a 5 or 6 HP motor on a two stage pump.

(or am I completely reading this wrong - and you think 14.5HP is excessive??).


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## wkpoor (Feb 7, 2012)

Thats right. The 2 stage pump revolutionized the splitter industry allowing a small 5-6hp engine to do the work of a much bigger one. However just about any single cylinder engine say 5-16hp is not really big when you think about the 70s when people where making most splitters out of whatever they could get their hands on and that was usually 4cyl tractor engines.
The ultimate goal here is wood split per fuel used. And sometimes what seems like a complete waste of power isn't really a waste of fuel. A Farmall Cub 60cu.in. flat head 4cyl makes an ideal splitter motor because it is quite, smooth running, and fuel efficient. But you couldn't mass produce a splitter with that powerplant on it. My application looks like complete overkill until you consider I run my tractor on free to me fuel and that diesel idling doesn't use any more fuel than a 6hp Briggs screaming its guts out.


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## Jags (Feb 7, 2012)

wkpoor said:
			
		

> I run my tractor on free to me fuel and that diesel idling doesn't use any more fuel than a 6hp Briggs screaming its guts out.



Yup - and the real reality is that the 14.5HP Briggs that I am using on the small splitter build will probably be in the same neighborhood as my old 8hp briggs as far as fuel consumption.


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