# How to remove catalyst chamber from Jotul Firelight 12?



## bentrice (Nov 27, 2012)

Well, the title says it all! I just bought a jotul firelight 12 that was not cared for very carefully by its previous owner. From the parts diagram I found on other threads on this forum, I've deduced that my catalyst chamber is severely modified. I don't mind putting money into this stove as I got a fine deal on it so I'm going to buy a new catalyst chamber.

I understand that the top if this stove comes off with a couple bolts but does this gain me access to the top of this catalyst chamber and it simply slides out vertically? 

Joful, I've read many of your posts and you seem to understand the workings of this stove fairly well. Hope you can help me refurbish this nice stove! 

In other news, I've bought a new cat and left door glass. I'm going to buy new gaskets all around and replace them. This is the second stove I regasketed. The first was my morso 1125. 

Thanks!!


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## Ashful (Nov 28, 2012)

I can definitely help with this part of it.  One other user has done an even more complete restoration this summer, but the cat chamber is relatively easy.

Referencing this diagram and parts list:
http://www.woodmanspartsplus.com/68/catalogs/Wood-and-Coal-Stove-Manufacturers-Cross-Reference.html
http://rs.woodmanspartsplus.com/company_41/Firelight12_PartsList.pdf

- Remove rear burn plate covering cat chamber, cat chamber cover and bottom, and catalyst.
- Remove left and right burn plates (they just lift out thru the front door).
- Remove the two screws on the hanger strap under the top-load door.  Be VERY careful the top load door is supported (flue pipe works well) when you do this, as the cast hinges WILL BREAK if the lid is allowed to flop over backwards.  After removed, set the lid back down.
- Remove the two bolts which hold the top on.  Looking in thru the front door, you'll find these high on either side of the firebox, running vertically up into the lid.
- Get a blanket or something ready to set the top down on.  It's not heavy, but you don't want to be fiddling around looking for a place to set it while you're holding it.
- Lift top off and set it aside.  Again, pay attention to not letting top load door flop open / break off.
(This is where my memory may be a little hazy...)
- Remove bolt on either side of bypass door.  I believe the entire bypass door assembly (frame and door together?) might lift out as one unit.  Can't remember for sure, though.
- Remove four bolts holding inner back plate (big cast iron plate with pretty array of holes), and lift plate out of stove.
- Slide cat chamber forward, and then lift out of the top of the stove.

Re-assembly is in reverse order.  You owe it to yourself to replace all of the gaskets when you reassemble.  I believe the big rear gasket that goes behind the inner back plate is 1/4", but double check that.  Since this gasket is not typically cemented, you can just hold it in place with several small pieces of masking tape, when you reset the inner back plate.  Others have used small dabs of cement in the corners, but I think that is more risky.  Also, replace your damper door gasket while it's out of the stove (much easier than in the stove).  Getting the right amount of compression of the inner back plate gasket and the gasket behind the damper frame is what gets the damper door rod tension right.

Good luck!  Let us know how it goes.


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## BrowningBAR (Nov 28, 2012)

Good luck. Joful can definitely help you out.

But, this is another example of how the general public is awful when it comes to maintaining catalytic stoves.


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## bentrice (Dec 1, 2012)

Awesome write-up. I'll be sure to expand on your instruction and post many pictures. I have the stove moved on it's tile pad in the basement now and my flue liner is on my front porch!

Keep looking here.


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## BurnerBob (Feb 27, 2013)

Bentrice, have you made any progress? I realize it's been a few months but you seem to have just disappeared. I hope the replacement went well. Please update us on your experience.

Thanks!


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## bentrice (Aug 20, 2013)

Hey folks. I'm sorry I haven't posted anything here in a while. I used my Firelight 12 all winter last year with a bum catalyst chamber. Well the time has come to drop an overtime paycheck on my Jotul and give it a full rebuild. Check back here for pictures.


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## jharkin (Aug 21, 2013)

Interesting thread - subscribed to see the photos.

Looking at that parts diagram the Firelight looks like an even more complicated stove than a VC, didn't think that was possible  At least it sounds like Jotul had the good sense to gasket all the panel seams rather than cement.....


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## Ashful (Aug 21, 2013)

More complex than a VC?!?  Maybe... haven't looked inside any of those old VC's.  I just took it from BrowningBAR that they're a nightmare, as he has had his head in both the Firelight 12 and several older VC's.


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## jharkin (Aug 21, 2013)

Joful said:


> More complex than a VC?!? Maybe... haven't looked inside any of those old VC's. I just took it from BrowningBAR that they're a nightmare, as he has had his head in both the Firelight 12 and several older VC's.


 
Nightmare is right... just read my rebuild thread and you will never want to buy one.

It just appears that the 12 has more parts. But we know that doesn't necessarily mean more of a pain.


One bright side - my refractory package is only half the price !


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## Ashful (Aug 21, 2013)

Yeah... Jotul really rapes you on this part, IMO.  $250 for the box, $70 for the cat cover, and another $70 for this little 1" x 2" x 10" rectangular board that doesn't appear to serve any purpose at all.  $400 in refractory parts.  However, they're all hiding behind heavy cast iron panels, so if you take reasonable care when removing / reinstalling your cat, you should get 20 years out of them.


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## bentrice (Aug 21, 2013)

OUCH! I just purchased the refractory and log retainers. Oh well, it's the same price as one electric bill without the wood stove going.

Anyway, I didn't do much besides pull the burn plates and grate out of it today. Basically the left and right plates are loose in the stove. Just lean them in toward the center and pull them out. The back plate has one bolt at the top that needs to be removed. The grate, of course, simply lifts out of the stove. As you can see my Cat is absolutely done. It's very crumbly and about 50% clogged with ash. Tomorrow when my bride gets home I'll have her help me pull off the top.


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## bentrice (Aug 21, 2013)

Joful, are you still happy with your Steel Cat from Condar? I'm going to order one if you are have had good success.


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## Ashful (Aug 21, 2013)

Yes, I am happy with my SteelCat, after almost two seasons on it. The caveat in that statement is that I only had less than one season's experience on a 19-year-old ceramic cat, before I switched to the steel. So, I have no good past experience on which to compare it. I burned fireplaces for 20+ years, but I only have a couple years experience burning these Firelight 12's. I can say the steel has held up well for me the last two years.

Be sure that, if you do buy a ceramic cat, it's NOT Condar. Their ceramic cat for this stove has a gasket around it that's designed to expand when exposed to heat. That works fine in a more durable cat chamber, but it will damage your $250 refractory box, if used in this particular stove. Their SteelCat does not have this same design flaw, which is actually how I ended up using that.

BTW, you do not need your wife to lift off that top. It's not as heavy as you might think. Just put down an old blanket or something to set the top down on, before lifting it off, since you don't want to be fumbling for that while you're holding the top. Also, be sure you disconnect the pedal linkage under the top door, and be _damn sure_ you keep that top door closed when you lift it off! If the top load door flops open with the linkage disconnected, the result is usually a broken hinge casting.


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## bentrice (Aug 21, 2013)

ok! SteelCat ordered. 
Another thing I need to buy before winter is a thermometer for the Catalyst chamber...

Good call on the no-wife-required. I'll give it a shot after I wake up. When I bought the stove it didn't have that strap that holds the pedal linkage onto the top door. No big deal though, I'm going to find a piece of scrap metal here at work and make one.


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## Ashful (Aug 22, 2013)

On that strap:  item 128402.  Available from your Jotul dealer for about $8.


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## jharkin (Aug 22, 2013)

Joful said:


> Yes, I am happy with my SteelCat, after almost two seasons on it. The caveat in that statement is that I only had less than one season's experience on a 19-year-old ceramic cat, before I switched to the steel. So, I have no good past experience on which to compare it. I burned fireplaces for 20+ years, but I only have a couple years experience burning these Firelight 12's. I can say the steel has held up well for me the last two years, despite having it to frightening temperatures on a couple occasions.


 
Joful, how does your Steelcat look?  After only 3.5 seasons (~ 4000hr, probably less than you used in 2 seasons) mine is warped and has turned from the original brown color to an overall grey.   I just sent it back on warranty.


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## Ashful (Aug 22, 2013)

Will post photos later.


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## Ashful (Aug 22, 2013)

So, I've been noticing the light-off temperatures of mine climbing over the last year. They used to light off at 450F, then 550F, then 700F... I swear by the end of the season, they were not even taking off at 700F sometimes. However, my wood quality was degrading throughout the season, as I had started off with my driest stuff, and was working my way toward less seasoned stuff. So, I am not ready to condemn these. I think a big part of my trouble was the less-seasoned wood I was getting into at the end of the season. They're certainly not falling apart, the way I saw some of the earlier SteelCat's do... seems they have that problem solved.

In any case, here's the photos, after about 5 cords of marginal quality wood thru one of them:








Those two weird stripes of corrosion down the side wall in the photo with my thumb are awful odd.


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## begreen (Aug 23, 2013)

Are you sure that ceramic cat was 19 years old? I have only heard that on cat stoves that get little use.


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## jharkin (Aug 23, 2013)

Thanks Joful. Your cat looks in a lot better shape than mine did, and most importantly appears to still have most of the brown coating intact. That helps convince me that mine was really stripped.


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## bentrice (Aug 23, 2013)

Strap ordered.
Jharkin, glad to know Condar has a reasonable warranty department.

Well yesterday I removed the top which, as stated before, required the removal of the two bolts in the top of the stove. The top simply lifted off with little effort. Be sure to remove the strap that holds the foot pedal linkage on as well. The picture is looking up inside the stove at the bolt.
	

		
			
		

		
	




The next part can be attacked several ways. I decided to remove the bypass damper next. This requires the removal of the two bolts on either side of the damper assembly. Before you go lifting it out, however, you must move the top door opening off to the side and loosen the back plate. To move the pedal linkage out of the way you must remove the two clips, lift up on the pedal, and move the pedal linkage bar towards the back of the stove. To loosen the back plate just back out the four bolts that hold it in about half-way. The bypass damper assembly should pull out easily. The picture shows how the pedal linkage is moved toward the back of the stove.



Next I removed the back plate. Take the four bolts out that hold it in. I had to GENTLY pry my back plate out with a craftsman flathead pry-bar because it was cemented in. It didn't take much force to break it free. Once out of the cement, it lifted out easily.
	

		
			
		

		
	




Now I wait for my parts to arrive! I took the opportunity to use a wire brush to remove any loose cement to replace.

Throughout this process, I kept a vacuum with a quality filter handy. After each step, clean the parts thoroughly; it makes for a much more pleasant experience.


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## Ashful (Aug 23, 2013)

For replacing fireback, tape new gasket in place with a few pieces of masking tape, to holdit in place while you set the fireback.  No cement here, IIRC.  Tape will burn up / go away on first firing.

Begreen, I can't be 100% sure on that cat, but I do believe it was the original from 1993.  Previous owner was an "occasional" burner.


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## bentrice (Aug 30, 2013)

The expensive parts have arrived! I spent a few hours recementing a few spots on the stove which I will not go over unless my method holds up all winter. 

I placed the refractory in the stove


Placed the brand new SteelCat inside


Placed the cover on. And.... Ok what the heck do I do with the $70 piece of refractory? Does it just lay in the bottom of the stove like so:


When I bought the stove there was no cat cover or bottom. The cat cover is obvious but the bottom seems odd. Please advise! Sorry for the blurry pic. I'll take a more clear one tomorrow.


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## Burner (Sep 1, 2013)

I believe the bottom is not needed because the new refractory assembly already includes it. If you can, send it back for a refund. By the way, how much did the assembly cost you? I purchased one for 200+ from woodmanspartsplus a while back, however, I noticed that they are now selling it for much more, something like 400+.


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## bentrice (Sep 1, 2013)

I'll take a few more pictures when I get home from night shift so you can determine if the chamber has the part integrated. I bought the parts from woodman parts plus. Hopefully they'll accept returns.
Here's what I bought:
Catalyst Chamber: $419
Catalyst Chamber Cover: $68
Catalyst Chamber Bottom: $60
Log Retainers: $29 each


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## Ashful (Sep 2, 2013)

Bottom is still needed.  The refractory box I got last year was the same as my 19 year old one, so I'm not sure to what Burner is referring.  It sits down in front, and the inner rear plate benches up against it.  It'll make sense when you get the inner plate installed.

BTW... list price on that chamber was only $250 last year.  Might want to get another price on that, before dumping $419.


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## Burner (Sep 3, 2013)

I am not sure that's true. No firelight I've ever seen had that extra piece of refractory sitting in front of the main assembly. It's just been the inner burner plate sitting on the cast iron base. There's even a groove for it to fit into. With that said, if it fits snugly between that plate and the front of the refractory then I look forward to seeing your setup.


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## Ashful (Sep 3, 2013)

Burner said:


> I am not sure that's true. No firelight I've ever seen had that extra piece of refractory sitting in front of the main assembly. It's just been the inner burner plate sitting on the cast iron base. There's even a groove for it to fit into. With that said, if it fits snugly between that plate and the front of the refractory then I look forward to seeing your setup.


That's because most, not knowing what it's for, throw it away when it gets damaged.  It's very easily damaged.  Talk with Jotul tech support (if you're lucky enough to get thru to them), and they'll tell you it's still part of the rig.  That's what they told me, anyway.

I will say, though... I'm not sure why it's needed, either!    They told me to use it, so I use it.  I figure someone must have had a good reason to add this expensive silly little piece to the design, even if I don't understand what it is.


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## bentrice (Sep 4, 2013)

I may have paid too much... I bought it from woodmanpartsplus.com

We today I finished the stove! First off I taped the gasket in per Joful's recommendation.





Next I placed the back plate in from the top being careful not to knock the gasket out of place. Once the plate was seated in its home, I installed the 4 bolts finger tight. Next the bypass damper went in with fresh gasket installed on the damper door and installed the two bolts that hold it in.


Next the top went on with its two bolts.


Now for a custom fireplace cover to hide my tee.
I have yet to receive my top door retainer, log retainers, and catalyst thermometer. Can't wait for come cool weather to show it off! The bottom by the way was used. I placed it as shown in the previous picture and scotched it in with the burn plate. It does, however, seem pointless. Oh well! Someone much smarter than me designed the stove.


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## jharkin (Sep 4, 2013)

Jotul owners I am curious... What is the foot pedal for?


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## Bluerubi (Sep 4, 2013)

jharkin said:


> Jotul owners I am curious... What is the foot pedal for?



Lifts the top of the stove for loading.  I thought it was kind of a novelty when I first bought my firelight 12, but then found it was my primary method for feeding the fire.  Jotul no longer offers this as an option I believe.


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## jharkin (Sep 4, 2013)

Ahh got it. Interesting way to do it, the VC stoves I'm used to just have a lift handle on the top load door.


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## Ashful (Sep 4, 2013)

The pedal is nice, because it both throws open the bypass damper, and lifts the top-load door.  They called it "step and load," and it really is just that.  They advertise it as a handy method for loading the stove, when you come in with an arm load of wood, as you can just step on the pedal and drop in the arm load of wood.  In reality, I place my wood into the stove piece by piece, rather than dropping it in by the armload.   But, the pedal is still mighty handy for opening the stove without donning gloves, etc.


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## jharkin (Sep 4, 2013)

Do you get smoke intrusion using that control to open the bypass and the door?  The reason I ask is because on the encore when you are burning low and slow in cat mode the draft isn't super strong.... when I reload, I usually:
1 - open damper (bypass)
2 - open primary air full
3- wait 3-5 minutes to let the fire heat up and establish a stronger draft
4 - open top door and load.

I found that if I just open the bypass and immediately open the top door I get smoke, except on the coldest deep winter days when the stove was running hard...  But then again the Jotul might be a better design than the VC and my chimney is on the shorter side....

Edit to add - It is a neat idea, and would prevent the occasional bonehead open door without opening damper move Ive done 


(apologies for thread jack - just curious)


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## Bluerubi (Sep 4, 2013)

When you first press the pedal the bypass door opens up, so I typically press the pedal a little, hear the bypass drop down, wait a couple seconds, then open it all the way.  I thought the concept was crazy at first, picturing clouds of smoke dumping into my room every time the peddle was pressed, but it's actually fun to watch the smoke rising towards the open top before getting sucked up the chimney.  Really a pretty cool feature, and one that I will miss once my Firelight sells.


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## Ashful (Sep 4, 2013)

Yep... what Bluerubi says.  I have never had smoke spillage into the room using the pedal or topload door, as the door can't be opened (latched down) unless the bypass is opened first.  The only time I get smoke into the room with that stove, is when I forget to open the bypass damper before opening the _front _doors... which I do way too often.


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## bentrice (Sep 12, 2013)

Overtime cancelled today; so, on to the next phase of the project: covering the fireplace to hide the tee. I called a local welding shop and asked if they would cut me out a fireplace cover if I provided them a drawing. He said he would and made me this per my sketch:



It's made out of 3/16" steel. I chose the heavy weight steel because I though a flimsy material would look... well, cheap. Also, don't have to worry about warping with the thicker steel. The radius is easy to cut out, as its measured from the center bottom of the plate.
I'm going to fasten it to the brick with countersunk Tapcon screws.
It should look nice! She doesn't like looking at the stainless tee in the fireplace opening. Will post pictures (of better quality) once it's installed.
If anyone wants a drawing, I'd be happy to draw one in AutoCad for you. All I need is the width, height, and how high you want the hole.


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## Ashful (Sep 12, 2013)

Looks nice.  However, if I assume correctly, you're doing rear-exit to a tee, then up?  How will you easily access/clean with that plate in place?


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## begreen (Sep 12, 2013)

I like your solution *and* your helper bentrice. You have the same floor covering that I used in my shop.


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## bentrice (Sep 13, 2013)

Joful, you're exactly right. It's going to require the removal of the Tapcons to remove the plate for cleaning. Shouldn't be a big deal, right?
Begreen, that's Abi! She is always right beside me through all of my projects.


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## Ashful (Sep 13, 2013)

If you have to remove, I would not use tapcons.  They're sort of a once-and-done fastener.  Consider putting inserts in the masonry, into which you can thread cap screws or machine screws.  The inserts stay in place, when you remove the screws.


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## bentrice (Sep 14, 2013)

Good advice, Joful. I'll see what I can come up with. I'd like it to be able to move/expand if it needs to anyway.


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## rothnh (Oct 16, 2013)

Beatrice and Joful:   Your photos are very helpful and have guided my successful take apart of the Firelight 12.  Curious if you remember the width of the gasket to install along the back wall and on the top plate?  Thanks  Steve


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## Ashful (Oct 16, 2013)

Both are 1/4", if I recall.  Will verify shortly.


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## Ashful (Oct 16, 2013)

Update:  I checked my notes and found no mention of the gasket size used, but I believe it was 1/4" braided.  In fact, memory tells me everything on this stove is 1/4" braided (not woven), with the exception of the glass, which is 3/16" braided.


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## bentrice (Oct 17, 2013)

Yep just checked my receipt. 1/4"


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## bentrice (Oct 17, 2013)

In other news, I just put on my top door retainer which will make loading so much easier this winter. I also got a soapstone steamer from Vermont Marble that I will post pictures of soon. Oddly enough, I can't wait for it to get cold!


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## Ashful (Oct 17, 2013)

bentrice said:


> Oddly enough, I can't wait for it to get cold!


We're all in that boat, brother!


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## jotul joe (Aug 13, 2014)

bentrice said:


> The expensive parts have arrived! I spent a few hours recementing a few spots on the stove which I will not go over unless my method holds up all winter.
> 
> I placed the refractory in the stove
> View attachment 109924
> ...


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## jotul joe (Aug 13, 2014)

what  did you do with the bottom ? Mine did not have one either originally  and I can not see the way you have it in picture the  inner back plate could  not line up with access cover bolts using that position
unless its a very  narrow piece about 1" deep  x 12 " long ? they told me I  needed this part too when ordering . I find this  very strange and wondering if it works ??  Im going to call and  cancel that piece.  could cut a thin strip off the old chamber if need be ? ?   or does it have specific notches in it to rest in the grooves ?  if not I cant see why we cant just use a little of the old  piece it will get tossed anyway  & save the $70.00 is this not  realistic ?


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## Ashful (Aug 13, 2014)

That damper needs to seal well, otherwise you will probably find yourself having to do this rebuild again, very soon.  There aren't many negative things one can say about a Firelight 12, but they will overfire if left in bypass mode, and running with a damper that doesn't seal may be a big step in that direction.

Unfortunately, it was 2012 when I last rebuilt one of these, so I don't remember the locations of all gaskets, but it's detailed in the parts explosion and in the manual.  I do recall the large back plate that held in the cat was gasketed, but that gasket was not cemented, so I had to hold it in place with masking tape when I installed that plate.  The damper frame has a gasket at the damper, and I assume another one behind, but I honestly can't remember today.

The Firelight 12 is an awesome stove.  There's not a stove on the market that has the same combination of looks, size, and performance.


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## Ashful (Aug 13, 2014)

BTW... don't use a Condar catalyist in a Jotul 12.  The Steelcat's fail, and their Ceramic Cats will blow out your cat chamber, due to the expanding gasket they put between the ceramic and metal can.  I destroyed TWO cat chambers and TWO chamber covers with Condar ceramic cat's last spring, and one of those chambers was only 2 years old.

Stick with the Jotul OEM catalysts.


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## jotul joe (Aug 14, 2014)

i read in the tread i posted  that the steel condar was working well    it was the ceramic one that destroys the chamber   some guy said he has been using his steel one from condar and it wont hurt the chamber   only the ceramic with gasket  ! so i canceled my order on the oem to get the steel  ill try it  , at least it wont hurt the chamber being steel & not the ceramic

  also i thought condar is making the oem  ceramic ones for jotul   or was during the 90s  ???


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## Ashful (Aug 14, 2014)

Hi Joe,

I ordered two Condar SteelCats in 2011/2012, and they each worked fine for a few months, but failed by distortion of the metal honeycomb, to the point where air could no longer pass thru the cats, and they were constantly clogging due to this.  I called Condar, who stated that they've had a lot of calls from Firelight and VC customers (essentially all downdraft cats?) with the same problem.  They recommended I switch to their ceramic.

I had concern with the ceramic, due to the mention of an expanding gasket in their marketing materials, filling the gap between the ceramic brick and the metal can.  As you know, this cat is installed in a delicate refractory chamber, which could be damaged if the gasket were to expand too much.

Condar insisted this would not be a problem, so I got two of these cats to finish out last season.  Both worked beautifully, eliminating the light off troubles I was having in the last few months of SteelCat use.  However, when I opened my stoves for summer cleaning, I found both refractory cat chamber covers crushed and split in the middle (where the inner burn plate holds them in place), and at least one of the chambers (almost new) had large cracks in the rear wall.

I have compared the Condar cats to my old Jotul OEMs, and found they did indeed expand, causing this damage.  I have not yet found a source for another Jotul cat.


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## jharkin (Aug 14, 2014)

Joful said:


> Hi Hoe,
> 
> I ordered two Condar SteelCats in 2011/2012, and they each worked fine for a few months, but failed by distortion of the metal honeycomb, to the point where air could no longer pass thru the cats, and they were constantly clogging due to this.  I called Condar, who stated that they've had a lot of calls from Firelight and VC customers (essentially all downdraft cats?) with the same problem.  They recommended I switch to their ceramic.
> 
> I had concern with the ceramic, due to the mention of an expanding gasket in their marketing materials, filling the gap between the ceramic brick and the metal can.  As you know, this cat is installed in a delicate refractory chamber, which could be damaged if the gasket were to expand too much.




I can also vouch for the steelcat problems. Joful and I have discussed this in the past I also went through two of the steel cats on my VC downdraft.  What I think happens is that they are sooooo hyper active when new its all too easy to get the thing overfired  if you are not watching (and vc's are temperamental to begin with).  You end up having it run at temps 1700-2000 at times when its new and that burns off the catayltic wash coat and warps it.  Both of mine turned from brown to all grey in just months, then I'd have lightoff trouble and mid burns stalls just like Joful.

Woodstock seems to have good luck with them based on the expeience of Dennis and others. Same Ive heard about Blaze king.  somehow those updraft designs must keep the temps more reasonable.

Condar also gave me a free replacement canned Ceramic that's working well. The only difference here is that in my stove the refractory around the car is a bit thicker and its sandwiched between cast iron plates that effectively clamp it and resist the blowout effect from the expanding gasket.   the actual ceramic elements i believe Condar just ordered from Sud Chemie or Applied Ceramics so if you order the Jotul part you are probably getting the same element just without the can?

Good luck, its a beautiful stove and worth the work.


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## bentrice (Aug 14, 2014)

Joe,

I'd be happy to help you determine where the gaskets in your stove go. I'll let you know how my steelcat looks in a few days. I did buy the small piece of refractory that goes at the bottom. I figured the engineers at Jotul know more than I do about wood stoves.

Let me mark up some pictures and I'll reply tomorrow.


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## Ashful (Aug 15, 2014)

The Jotul cat still has a steel "can", like Condar.  However, the gasket material between the ceramic and steel on the Jotul doesn't expand when heated, the way the Condar does.  For this, I am very irritated with Condar, as I directly questioned this and was fed a lie in response.  I'll try to get photos of both soon.


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## Woody Stover (Aug 15, 2014)

JJ, that place looks awesome! My motto is, you can never have too much wood around you.


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## jotul joe (Aug 15, 2014)

Sad part is im surrounded by tall pines no hardwood hardly ,  very little . So i have to buy it . lol  Plenty of water to put out a fire though   . That diverter  really saves the pipe from being torn off the metal roof or any roof . They cost about $140.00  deliverd but  worth it if you have ice build up. The cost of a destroyed pipe can be much more $    . Question will a magnet thermostat attached to my pipe just above  stove work alright ?  What would be the safe spot for temp  with this type thermostat  and location to operate at or optimize with out damages to the stove parts as done before by over heating it  . ???? The funds just arnt there to buy a more expensive type thermostat this year !!  thanks joe   BTW  thats not my stove pipe in first pic 
  its on other side !   For those who might have issue with ice or snow build up. http://www.metalroofsnowguards.com/VentSaver-HD-Heavy-Duty_p_57.html  

View attachment 136586
View attachment 136587
View attachment 136588

View attachment 136589


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## jotul joe (Aug 15, 2014)

Joful said:


> That damper needs to seal well, otherwise you will probably find yourself having to do this rebuild again, very soon.  There aren't many negative things one can say about a Firelight 12, but they will overfire if left in bypass mode, and running with a damper that doesn't seal may be a big step in that direction.
> 
> Unfortunately, it was 2012 when I last rebuilt one of these, so I don't remember the locations of all gaskets, but it's detailed in the parts explosion and in the manual.  I do recall the large back plate that held in the cat was gasketed, but that gasket was not cemented, so I had to hold it in place with masking tape when I installed that plate.  The damper frame has a gasket at the damper, and I assume another one behind, but I honestly can't remember today.
> 
> The Firelight 12 is an awesome stove.  There's not a stove on the market that has the same combination of looks, size, and performance.


Are you saying they over fire with damper open or closed position im assuming you mean over fires when damper is open .?   This makes sence . That you want to get the stove to temp and shut the damper  so cat works, but they get mighty hot with it closed and even air shut right down on the air control . Ive noticed at times ive seen the cover glowing orange  when checking in on it .  I guess its a skill you learn  to get it right after paying attention to temps


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## Ashful (Aug 15, 2014)

Yep, they overfire with the damper open.  I find this to be the case within 10 - 20 minutes, no matter how far I shut down the air control.  With the damper closed, they're infinitely controllable.

I have three thermometers on each my stove, but I'm an anal-retentive geek, so that may be a wee bit of overkill.  In any case, here's my setup, and how I run it:

Therm 1:  Condar magnetic dial on top center of top loading door (very fast reacting spot)
Therm 2:  Magnetic dial on stovepipe, about 15" above stove collar
Therm 3:  Catalytic probe thermometer.  For this, I use a custom high-temp K-type thermocouple probe from Omega, with a cheap Amprobe thermocouple meter.  There are better options out there for cat probe thermometers, but this works for me.

On reload:

1.  Open bypass, rake coals, load stove.
2.  Leave one front door cracked up to a minute or three, if necessary, never longer than it takes for load to light.
3.  Close and latch doors, set iPhone timer for 5 - 8 minutes, depending on size of load and how vigorously it lit up.
4.  When timer goes off, check stove top and stove pipe temp.  If both are > 500F, and load looks well-charred, close bypass damper.  If stovepipe is getting > 600F, and stove top is still cool or wood isn't well charred, then lower primary air and re-set iPhone timer for 3 minutes.
5.  Check again, and adjust air as necessary to keep stovepipe from getting too hot, until stovetop is > 500F and load is well-charred.
6.  Close bypass damper and set iPhone timer for 5 minutes.
7.  When timer goes off, verify that cat temp is > 700F.  If so, lower air to 1/2, and reset timer for 5 minutes.  If not, wait until it is, then lower air to 1/2, and reset timer for 5 minutes.
8.  When timer goes off, lower air to 1/4, and reset timer for 5 minutes.
9.  When timer goes off, lower air to final setting.  This "final setting" is full-closed on my stove with the 27 foot chimney, but maybe on the "minus" symbol for my stove with the shorter chimney.  I find that going full-closed on the stove with the shorter chimney results in some back-puffing, unless temps are screamingly cold outside.

If I were strapped for cash, I would probably skip the stovetop thermo before skipping on the cat thermo.  However, using mechanical thermometers for each, you're probably looking at under $100 for all three.  You can use a small mirror to read a mechanical probe thermo in the back of the stove, in a pinch.  There are pre-packaged electronic cat probe thermometers, but they usually cost more than the mechanicals.


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## jotul joe (Aug 15, 2014)

Joful said:


> Yep, they overfire with the damper open.  I find this to be the case within 10 - 20 minutes, no matter how far I shut down the air control.  With the damper closed, they're infinitely controllable.
> 
> I have three thermometers on each my stove, but I'm an anal-retentive geek, so that may be a wee bit of overkill.  In any case, here's my setup, and how I run it:
> 
> ...


  can you   explain how the probe type in back of stove  goes in ? on the firelight 12 ?


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## begreen (Aug 15, 2014)

Joful sounds like he is pretty busy. I don't have the stove. This is from the manual:


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## jotul joe (Aug 15, 2014)

begreen said:


> Joful sounds like he is pretty busy. I don't have the stove. This is from the manual:
> 
> View attachment 136617



   oh so its normal to burn at 1000 degrees at the cat ?   is this temp far from the temps the magnet type would read attached to the lower stove pipe or cover ??  i thought the internals will  distort  at temps around 1200 to 1300 no ?  i guess im looking for the max  tempi can let my stove go to with damper closed  with out distorting back plates  and destroying the cat


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## begreen (Aug 15, 2014)

Yes, the cat usually runs at much higher temps than the stove top temp or stove pipe temps. This is true in all cat stoves. A good design will isolate the heat with insulation or dissipate it quickly. Stove top temps should not get much over 700F for any sustained time. Flue temp will vary depending on the point in the wood burning cycle. It will be hotter with the bypass open.


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## Ashful (Aug 15, 2014)

Thanks, begreen.  Yep, typical stove top on a Firelight, as measured on the top-load door, is going to be 300 - 700 F.  If your stove starts headed toward 700F, and you have the air turned down, it's time to start worrying and looking for a bad gasket / broken seam.

The cat probe will typically run 1300 - 1700 F in the early part of the burn, and spikes above 1800 F occasionally happen.  That's the reason for that soft refractory box, to insulate the more delicate cast iron from the extremely high cat temps.  The beauty of a cat stove is you can smoulder along at 300F stovetop temp, while the cat is cooking the creosote at 1500F, for a long and slow burn.

A quick Google search of catalytic probe thermometer brings up many options in the $25 - $30 range, although you need to get behind your stove (or use a small mirror) to see these.  Just make sure it's at least 3 inches long, and not more than 5 inches long, to make it easy to use with this stove.  I buy 1/16" (capillary size) thermocouple probes that are 6" long, but I bend them at the 3.5 inch mark, to control their insertion depth.


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## jotul joe (Aug 18, 2014)

Joful said:


> Thanks, begreen.  Yep, typical stove top on a Firelight, as measured on the top-load door, is going to be 300 - 700 F.  If your stove starts headed toward 700F, and you have the air turned down, it's time to start worrying and looking for a bad gasket / broken seam.
> 
> The cat probe will typically run 1300 - 1700 F in the early part of the burn, and spikes above 1800 F occasionally happen.  That's the reason for that soft refractory box, to insulate the more delicate cast iron from the extremely high cat temps.  The beauty of a cat stove is you can smoulder along at 300F stovetop temp, while the cat is cooking the creosote at 1500F, for a long and slow burn.
> 
> A quick Google search of catalytic probe thermometer brings up many options in the $25 - $30 range, although you need to get behind your stove (or use a small mirror) to see these.  Just make sure it's at least 3 inches long, and not more than 5 inches long, to make it easy to use with this stove.  I buy 1/16" (capillary size) thermocouple probes that are 6" long, but I bend them at the 3.5 inch mark, to control their insertion depth.


  Why do you bend the probe   dosent that effect the  readings ?  id like your reason for bending it and  how much of a bend ?


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## Ashful (Aug 19, 2014)

I'm using a 1/16" diameter K-type thermocouple probe, with the thermocouple located at the tip of a long metal capilary tube, so the only thing in the tube where I'm making the bend is wires... no effect on the reading.

I bend it for two reasons:

1.  It limits the insertion depth to a point where the probe tip ends up centered directly over my cat combuster.
2.  It allows the probe to fit in the back of my one stove, where there is only 2" between the back of the stove and the stone wall.

I would not be bending a mechanical probe, but this one's electric.


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## jotul joe (Aug 19, 2014)

Joful said:


> I'm using a 1/16" diameter K-type thermocouple probe, with the thermocouple located at the tip of a long metal capilary tube, so the only thing in the tube where I'm making the bend is wires... no effect on the reading.
> 
> I bend it for two reasons:
> 
> ...


  I may have the same issue lol exactly 3 " till i  hit stone work  id be using a mechanical therm, i wounder if it willl go or not   grrrrr  im thinking not. due to when it gets by the cast and starts to hit the chamber it will damage  it trying to  fanagle it in  there maybe .


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## Ashful (Aug 19, 2014)

Yeah, you'll have to pull the stove away from the wall a moment, to get it installed.


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## Ohlson35 (Oct 11, 2016)

what i see and read is the bottom piece is to be returned? Other than that forward i go with the rebuild


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## Ohlson35 (Oct 11, 2016)

Ashful said:


> That's because most, not knowing what it's for, throw it away when it gets damaged.  It's very easily damaged.  Talk with Jotul tech support (if you're lucky enough to get thru to them), and they'll tell you it's still part of the rig.  That's what they told me, anyway.
> 
> I will say, though... I'm not sure why it's needed, either!    They told me to use it, so I use it.  I figure someone must have had a good reason to add this expensive silly little piece to the design, even if I don't understand what it is.


hi ashfull,how and where does the "bottom " go? just lay it in front?


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## Ashful (Oct 12, 2016)

Yep.  Just lays on floor in front of cat chamber, behind removable burn plate.  Not sure why it's needed there, but figured the engineer who designed it does, or else he'd have not included it in the design.


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## Ohlson35 (Oct 12, 2016)

Thank you once again


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## Ohlson35 (Oct 12, 2016)

bentrice said:


> Joe,
> 
> I'd be happy to help you determine where the gaskets in your stove go. I'll let you know how my steelcat looks in a few days. I did buy the small piece of refractory that goes at the bottom. I figured the engineers at Jotul know more than I do about wood stoves.
> 
> Let me mark up some pictures and I'll reply tomorrow.


How are the steel cats?


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