# Rough Duty/Shatter Proof Light Bulb Warning



## Hearth Mistress (Dec 28, 2012)

Just wanted to put it out there now that 2013 brings new light bulb regulations. For those of you that prefer the good old light bulbs, stock up as they will slowly be phased out in 2013, starting with 75w and the 60w by the end of 2013, being replaced by new styles that are more energy effiecient.

There are exceptions to these new regulations, rough duty or shatter proof bulbs being one of them. However, before buying those instead, you shoud know they are TEFLON coated and can kill any birds, pets or livestock, as the fumes are toxic to them. There are countless articles on line from very reputable sources of farmers losing entire flocks of poultry by using these bulbs in barns, thinking they are sturdier, only to have their chickens die. The most manufacturers do a poor job posting warnings on the boxes but just in case, you are tempted to buy these bulbs because you dont like the new ones, you have been warned


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## Highbeam (Dec 28, 2012)

Seriously, the bulbs in operation emit enough toxic fumes to kill the chickens? I cook on teflon pans too.

You say it will kill ANY birds, pets, and livestock. Well that's a broad brush.


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## Eatonpcat (Dec 28, 2012)

The wife just told me the other day to stock up on the incandescents before they go away!


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## Hearth Mistress (Dec 28, 2012)

Highbeam said:


> Seriously, the bulbs in operation emit enough toxic fumes to kill the chickens? I cook on teflon pans too.
> 
> You say it will kill ANY birds, pets, and livestock. Well that's a broad brush.


I'm no expert but looked today buying bulbs myself, just to try an verify what I reading in Mother Earth magazine and on line and yes, evidently, there is enough fumes to kill "poultry and fowl" that all but GE now have warnings on the box. There are plenty of articles if you google it but here's the quote from the department of agriculture:

"With the increasing interest in raising poultry, the Department of Agriculture is warning poultry owners to be careful when using heat lamps and other light bulbs around birds. Heat lamps are often used for young chicks in their first few weeks and most of these bulbs are safe. However, there is a new type of heat lamp labeled " shatter-proof" which has come on the market have been proven to be dangerous to birds"

"The new "shatter-proof" heat lamps are actually coated with Teflon or PTFE and are extremely dangerous for birds", Commissioner Petersen said."When Teflon is heated on a light bulb  it releases a gas which can kill chicks or pet birds."


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## Ehouse (Dec 28, 2012)

Highbeam said:


> Seriously, the bulbs in operation emit enough toxic fumes to kill the chickens? I cook on teflon pans too.
> 
> You say it will kill ANY birds, pets, and livestock. Well that's a broad brush.


 

Wife tells me teflon pans will kill pet birds.  The high heat makes it off gas.  Quick google search reveals lots of conflicting info.

Ehouse


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## Hearth Mistress (Dec 28, 2012)

I have a cockatiel and use teflon pans, every now an then - he is almost 20. The issue is proximity, these bulbs in a barn have the potential to kill chickens, or there have been enough accounts that manufacturers put a warning on them now. If you put one in a lamp that is in the room with your pet bird, good chance it could be a danger. If you cook in teflon on a occasion, as I do and the bird is clear across the house on a totally different floor, the risk is minimal.

I just posted it figuring that with all the folks here, they may be a few homesteaders that raise chickens and this was the first I've ever heard of light bulbs being a cause if death for birds.


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## Highbeam (Dec 28, 2012)

Hearth Mistress said:


> I have a cockatiel and use teflon pans, every now an then - he is almost 20. The issue is proximity, these bulbs in a barn have the potential to kill chickens, or there have been enough accounts that manufacturers put a warning on them now. If you put one in a lamp that is in the room with your pet bird, good chance it could be a danger. If you cook in teflon on a occasion, as I do and the bird is clear across the house on a totally different floor, the risk is minimal.
> 
> I just posted it figuring that with all the folks here, they may be a few homesteaders that raise chickens and this was the first I've ever heard of light bulbs being a cause if death for birds.


 
You're right, I think many of us do a little homesteading type activity. I have 9 chickens and do put a light in with them in the winter to keep them laying but it has been a cfl since I don't need heat, just light so their little brains think the sun is up.


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## Hearth Mistress (Dec 28, 2012)

I'd love to have chickens but the dogs would go nuts. We had them as kids, nothing like fresh eggs  i was really surprised by the article in Mother Earth News magazine last month and just saw a notice posted ad Agway last week. Made me start looking, not that I have chickens but wondering why I'm using teflon at all if there are toxins to harm birds, what is it doing to my food. Then, thinking, I could see my hubby buying these bulbs when he eventually can't find the other ones, not knowing that if he puts it in our desk lamp, it could kill the bird, who knew?!? These are just 60 or 75w bulbs, but rough duty, so in a farm setting, where they are often bare bulbs, they are less likely to break when you accidentally hit them, just the perfect storm of circumstances. Post some picks of your chickens, I'd love to see them!


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## ScotO (Dec 28, 2012)

We got rid of all but one teflon pan in this house.  We use iron and stainless steel pans now.  The teflon 'outgasses', and it's too miniscule of an amount to do any real damage to a human being at one use here and there, but God only knows what the long term effects of that crap are.  I'd rather deal with a broken egg yolk and messed up pancakes from the stainless pan than dealing with the teflon....


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## Corey (Dec 28, 2012)

Interesting note on the teflon.  I have read it can start to give off detectable levels of fumes as low as 400ºF.  Probably not a temperature a light bulb gets to every day, but in certain enclosures and certain orientations, I suppose it could hit that level. Certainly teflon pans can get that hot - especially when frying or if left unattended with little/nothing in them.  Combine that with most birds 'hyper sensitivity' to various gasses in the air and you have a real 'canary in a coalmine' scenario.  Stewing/boiling in teflon pan is of no worry as you're limited to 212ºF

It's also funny the government is outlawing normal bulbs, but allowing rough service bulbs to continue use.  Rough service is one area where LEDs would really 'shine' - pun intended.  You can be pretty rough with LEDs and they can take a gazillion on/off cycles with no problems.  But leave it to the gubment to know best.


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## billb3 (Dec 29, 2012)

worst scenario with a teflon pan or pot is having one on a burner ( or stove) with no heat sink material in it and turning that burner on by mistake.
I had a few teflon coated pans until I turned the wrong burner on one day  and cooked an empty pot.
The smell is horrible.
All gone from the kitchen  now.

any factory that makes and or works with the stuff has STRICT no smoking rules. 1 tiny flake on the end of a cigarette inhaled can make a person sick as a dog for a day or two.


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## OhioBurner© (Dec 30, 2012)

Is it for real this time? I've been stocking up on regular bulbs for years since they have been saying they were going to be outlawed like every year for the last 5.


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## woodgeek (Dec 30, 2012)

OhioBurner© said:


> Is it for real this time? I've been stocking up on regular bulbs for years since they have been saying they were going to be outlawed like every year for the last 5.


 
Yes it is.  The timeline is precisely as specified in the original law in 2007.  While it has been in the news for years, it was not because it was impending.


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## Dune (Dec 30, 2012)

The worst danger from teflon pans (fatal) is in the event of a house fire.

I will have NO teflon pans in my home, ever.

Hearth Mistress, good warning, thanks.


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## woodgeek (Dec 30, 2012)

Here is a link to a scientific paper on the subject....

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=10879927


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## Hogwildz (Dec 30, 2012)

Ehouse said:


> Wife tells me teflon pans will kill pet birds. The high heat makes it off gas. Quick google search reveals lots of conflicting info.
> 
> Ehouse


Back in the late 80s, I rented a place with my sister and her BF. Sis was away at work, and the BF was cooking something in a non-stick pan, was drunk and forgot about the pan & what he was cooking. Burned the meal and the off gassing of the teflon on the pan killed all 10 of her finch birds. He went out and bought 10 new ones thinking she wouldn't notice the difference, she did.


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## raybonz (Dec 30, 2012)

I don't agree with banning incandescent lamps I feel they should make it more enticing to use alternative light sources. Incandescent lamps are good for certain applications such as dimming fixtures that are infrequently used and how would an easy bake oven perform with an LED lamp? Most of my lighting is CFL but that is by choice as it should be! The gov't does not need to make every friggin' decision in my life!


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## jharkin (Dec 30, 2012)

As usual misinformation spreads faster than the real info.

There is NO ban on incandescent. 

What they have done is raise the minimum lumens per watt standard to a level that traditional tungsten filament incandescent bulbs cannot meet.

If you don't want to try the excellent CFL and LED options now available (that are much cheaper in the long run) you can switch to halogens. A 40 watt halogen equals a 60 watt incandescent. 70w halogen  equals 100.

One other point about rough service bulbs - they use a thicker more durable filament and are a LOT dimmer than regular bulbs.


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## raybonz (Dec 30, 2012)

jharkin said:


> As usual misinformation spreads faster than the real info.
> 
> There is NO ban on incandescent.
> 
> ...


I've been to the Phillips light headquarters in NJ for their awesome seminar (twice actually). If you ever get the chance to go you will love it! They took good care of us as well and wined and dined us  Great time and learned things about how we perceive light that I never knew..More than meets the eye!

Ray


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## jharkin (Dec 30, 2012)

Ray, thanks I bet I would. I switched end to mostly CFLs due to being cheap, but when I tried my first HD/Cree LED in the kitchen I was so impressed I've gotten quite interested in high end lighting. My wife thinks I have an eccentric light bulb addiction now..........


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## raybonz (Dec 30, 2012)

jharkin said:


> Ray, thanks I bet I would. I switched end to mostly CFLs due to being cheap, but when I tried my first HD/Cree LED in the kitchen I was so impressed I've gotten quite interested in high end lighting. My wife thinks I have an eccentric light bulb addiction now..........


LOL I hear ya JR.. Just picked up a  couple 3-way CFL's for 75 cents at Ocean State Job lot.. Hard to beat that! They outlast incandescent lamps by years.. I like the idea  of LED's but they are still very expensive until I see they last as long as they should. Time will tell the story..

Ray


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## Lumber-Jack (Dec 31, 2012)

Hogwildz said:


> Back in the late 80s, I rented a place with my sister and her BF. Sis was away at work, and the BF was cooking something in a non-stick pan, was drunk and forgot about the pan & what he was cooking. Burned the meal and the off gassing of the teflon on the pan killed all 10 of her finch birds. He went out and bought 10 new ones thinking she wouldn't notice the difference, she did.


A guy I did some work for who raised birds (mostly parrots), gave us a pair of budgies with a cage, food, etc... Had them for several months until one day we used the self cleaning feature in our oven. We went out for the day, and when we came back the budgies were both stone dead.
Fast forward about three years, I ran into the same guy at the end of a school money raising event, he tried to auction off a couple Love birds, but they didn't sell. He didn't want to take the love birds back home with him so he offered them to us, again. I told him we'd take them, but related the story of what happen last time with the budgies. He said it was probably a fluke and insisted it we take them, so we reluctantly took them home and they did fine up until,,,,,,, you guessed it.
Except this time we took precautions, we moved the cage with the love birds to the far side of the living room as far away from the kitchen as possible, covered the cage with a sheet, opened all the windows, ran the oven range hood fan, started the self cleaning cycle on the oven, and went out for the afternoon. When we came back the Love birds were stone dead!
I don't think it's just Teflon that is toxic.


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## Hearth Mistress (Dec 31, 2012)

It isn't the teflon per sea, it is the coating, polytetrafluoroethylene ("PTFE") that is used in ovens and cookware. My oven got shorted out in Hurricane Sandy so we had to buy a new one. The manual warns not to use the self cleaning oven feature if you have pets birds because the fumes can be fatal. Even on my old stove I never used it because the one time I tried, even after only a few minutes it stunk up the house and made my eyes water. I know there are believers and non believers, but i just wanted to put it out there knowing there are some homesteaders here. 
Also, just to clarify, it isn't a ban on bulbs, they are being discontinued because of new energy regulations. It started a few years ago but now that this year it effects 75 & 60w bulbs, I could easily see someone buying these rough duty bulbs instead, since they are exempt from the new laws, and unbeknownst to them, put their pet birds or livestock in harms way. 
This was my attempt at a PSA, that's all


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## woodgeek (Dec 31, 2012)

HM, 'teflon' is just the DuPont brand name for PTFE.  While PTFE (long chain molecules) are a solid, under high heat the chains break down into small molecular weight fragments that are a gas and toxic. This is pyrolysis just like solid cellulose turning into 'wood gas'.


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## Corey (Dec 31, 2012)

Dune said:


> The worst danger from teflon pans (fatal) is in the event of a house fire.
> 
> I will have NO teflon pans in my home, ever.
> 
> Hearth Mistress, good warning, thanks.


 
... of course, if the house is on fire, you have a lot more to worry about than a few pans!


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## heat seeker (Dec 31, 2012)

And the gasses from the carpeting, furniture, wiring, etc, will be even worse than from a couple of pans.


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## MasterMech (Dec 31, 2012)

woodgeek said:


> This is pyrolysis


 
Oh that is a fun process indeed.


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## jeff_t (Dec 31, 2012)

Dune said:


> The worst danger from teflon pans (fatal) is in the event of a house fire.



The single biggest reason we started wearing SCBA for dumpster fires. At least that's what they told us twenty years ago.

How about silicone coated bulbs? They are required in foodservice.


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## btuser (Dec 31, 2012)

Hogwildz said:


> Back in the late 80s, I rented a place with my sister and her BF. Sis was away at work, and the BF was cooking something in a non-stick pan, was drunk and forgot about the pan & what he was cooking. Burned the meal and the off gassing of the teflon on the pan killed all 10 of her finch birds. He went out and bought 10 new ones thinking she wouldn't notice the difference, she did.


I woulda tried the same thing.


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## Swedishchef (Jan 1, 2013)

Is this ban only in the US or is it effective in Canada as well???

Andrew


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## woodgeek (Jan 1, 2013)

Looks like some provinces are ahead of the US....other not so much: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-out_of_incandescent_light_bulbs#Canada

seems you are safe in Quebec, for the time being.


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## raybonz (Jan 1, 2013)

woodgeek said:


> Looks like some provinces are ahead of the US....other not so much: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-out_of_incandescent_light_bulbs#Canada
> 
> seems you are safe in Quebec, for the time being.


Cuba is way ahead of us and banned them in 2005! There are cases where incandescent are efficient if used in a heat application and I still feel it should be a matter of choice. Most of my lights are CFL, especially lights that are on for long periods of time. I tried CFL globe lights in the bathroom and they are terrible with long warm up time and they failed quickly due to frequent on-off cycling something that CFL's dislike so I went back to incandescent lamps there. LED's are great but they are still in their infancy for general lighting purposes and I feel they will become inexpensive eventually and especially if the power companies subsidize them like they did with CFL's..

Ray


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## Swedishchef (Jan 1, 2013)

woodgeek said:


> seems you are safe in Quebec, for the time being.


 
Hrrrmm..safe from the lightbulb phasing out but that's about it...ha ha. I see our country wide phasing out begins next year.

Andrew


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## Eatonpcat (Jan 1, 2013)

Hearth Mistress said:


> I have a cockatiel and use teflon pans, every now an then - he is almost 20. _*The issue is proximity*_, these bulbs in a barn have the potential to kill chickens, or there have been enough accounts that manufacturers put a warning on them now. If you put one in a lamp that is in the room with your pet bird, good chance it could be a danger. If you cook in teflon on a occasion, as I do and the bird is clear across the house on a totally different floor, the risk is minimal.
> 
> I just posted it figuring that with all the folks here, they may be a few homesteaders that raise chickens and this was the first I've ever heard of light bulbs being a cause if death for birds.


 
Yep...My teflon pan kills the chicken breast every time!!  Tastey too!!


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## Swedishchef (Jan 1, 2013)

Eatonpcat said:


> ...My teflon pan kills the chicken breast every time!! Tastey too!!


 lol


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## WhitePine (Jan 1, 2013)

Eatonpcat said:


> Yep...My teflon pan kills the chicken breast every time!! Tastey too!!


 
Apparently, things didn't _pan_ out for the chicken.


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## heat seeker (Jan 1, 2013)

I try to have my chicken dead _before_ it hits the pan. Gotta watch out for PETA.
(People Eating Tasty Animals).


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## maverick06 (Jan 2, 2013)

Quoting someone else, i forget who, "The only thing dumber than using regular incandescent bulbs, is stocking up on them".

I understand that there may be some specialized uses (using them for their heat output for birds for example). But beyond that, i have no idea why you would use them. i have switched out my whole house to CFL. The only incandescent that is used is on a 3 way switch that has 2 of the light up switches, as such, about 15 volts leak through to it, so if a CFL is used it flickers. I have outside light timers that say they are only designed for incandescent, but the CFL work great.

The bulbs last way longer and cost much less to run. The light output is great, and if you buy smartly, the light color is great. its a clear winner... until you start looking at LED, I havent switched to them yet.


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## heat seeker (Jan 2, 2013)

CFLs are good in certain applications - until you break one. They contain mercury, and the phosphor is something you don't want to breathe.


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## raybonz (Jan 2, 2013)

heat seeker said:


> CFLs are good in certain applications - until you break one. They contain mercury, and the phosphor is something you don't want to breathe.


Not to mention they are hazardous waste and I am sure the landfills are loaded with them too..


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## maverick06 (Jan 2, 2013)

here is how to clean it up:
http://www.epa.gov/cfl/cflcleanup.html

On the global scale, they are way better off than the extra power used.

At home, well, I dont make it a habit to break lights. And the small amount of ash in my house from the stove is probably of great concern, as are the handful of potato chips i just ate.

to each their own.


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## heat seeker (Jan 2, 2013)

Almost nobody plans on breaking them - that's why they call them accidents. I have a bunch in my house. I'm not against them, I am against someone telling me what I can use for light. There are applications where they are not a good choice.


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## begreen (Jan 2, 2013)

jharkin said:


> Ray, thanks I bet I would. I switched end to mostly CFLs due to being cheap, but when I tried my first HD/Cree LED in the kitchen I was so impressed I've gotten quite interested in high end lighting. My wife thinks I have an eccentric light bulb addiction now..........


 
She's probably right. I had the same urge after seeing the light of the Cree. Fortunately the price cured me. Well, that and I have a stock of CFLs that will last about 5 yrs.. Hopefully by then the Cree price will drop to something reasonable.


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## begreen (Jan 2, 2013)

raybonz said:


> Cuba is way ahead of us and banned them in 2005! There are cases where incandescent are efficient if used in a heat application and I still feel it should be a matter of choice. Most of my lights are CFL, especially lights that are on for long periods of time. I tried CFL globe lights in the bathroom and they are terrible with long warm up time and they failed quickly due to frequent on-off cycling something that CFL's dislike so I went back to incandescent lamps there. LED's are great but they are still in their infancy for general lighting purposes and I feel they will become inexpensive eventually and especially if the power companies subsidize them like they did with CFL's..
> 
> Ray


 
I haven't bought a regular incandescent bulb in the past 15 yrs, except for an appliance bulb in the refrigerator. We have several halogen desk lamps and I use them for outdoor flood lamps as well. When we redid the bathroom I went all halogen in there too. I'm welcoming the change. It will drive down costs and I like that there are now bulbs in conventional form factors that are halogen inside.

On the teflon outgassing question, does anyone know if the "yoshi blue" pan has this issue too?


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## jharkin (Jan 2, 2013)

begreen said:


> She's probably right. I had the same urge after seeing the light of the Cree. Fortunately the price cured me. Well, that and I have a stock of CFLs that will last about 5 yrs.. Hopefully by then the Cree price will drop to something reasonable.


 
Except I got those HD label CR6s for $25 ea. and they have an integrated trim. Just the trim alone for incandescent costs about that. Instant payback in this application.


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## Hearth Mistress (Jan 2, 2013)

begreen said:


> I haven't bought a regular incandescent bulb in the past 15 yrs, except for an appliance bulb in the refrigerator. We have several halogen desk lamps and I use them for outdoor flood lamps as well. When we redid the bathroom I went all halogen in there too. I'm welcoming the change. It will drive down costs and I like that there are now bulbs in conventional form factors that are halogen inside.
> 
> On the teflon outgassing question, does anyone know if the "yoshi blue" pan has this issue too?



The yoshi blue and other ceramic type style pans do advertise they are "non-teflon" but what they use to make them nonstick isn't discussed . I have several ceramic enamel over cast iron pots and stuff can get stuck or burnt on to the bottom. for the most part, I stick to my stainless steel or cast iron.


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## Jags (Jan 3, 2013)

maverick06 said:


> But beyond that, i have no idea why you would use them.


 
Unheated buildings hate cfl bulbs.  Getting the equivalent lighting of 4 300 watt bulbs gets pretty pricey when using other types.  Incandescent still wins in this application when the lights are only on for short periods of time.


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## jharkin (Jan 3, 2013)

Jags said:


> Unheated buildings hate cfl bulbs. Getting the equivalent lighting of 4 300 watt bulbs gets pretty pricey when using other types. Incandescent still wins in this application when the lights are only on for short periods of time.


 
This is quite true... Ive found CFLs can work in cold if they are left on for long periods and can warm up... for example for my outside floodlights I have CFLs on the switched circuit, but keep halogens in the motion sensor lights.  

Indoor, I had a real problem with CFLs on dimmers. I have a lot of can lights in the insulated ceilings in the kitchen. I had bad ice dam problems and the can lights were a culprit so I installed new IC/AT cans  and wanted to run lower wattage bulbs for less heat output. I got some free"Dimmable" CFLs from MassSave that where awful... so Instead I put in HD brand Cree CR6s ($25/ea). These I just LOVE and they seem even brighter than 65wat floods.  Plus they have an integrated trim so at $25 they are actually as cheap as incandescent ($3 for the blub + $20-$30 for trim) for a new install. Its a win-win.


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## heat seeker (Jan 3, 2013)

A study claims CFL's put out excessive x-rays UV rays:

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2013/01/02/study-eco-friendly-light-bulbs-may-put-health-at-risk/


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## jharkin (Jan 3, 2013)

heat seeker said:


> A study claims CFL's put out excessive x-rays:
> 
> http://miami.cbslocal.com/2013/01/02/study-eco-friendly-light-bulbs-may-put-health-at-risk/


 
Read the article, its UV, not X-Rays.

Its been known for decades that Flourescent lights put out UV. The long tube flourescents that you sit under at work all day long probably put out much more than your houshold CFLs do, and nobody ever got skin cancer sitting in an office.


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## heat seeker (Jan 3, 2013)

Yup, I blew that - don't know where I got x-rays from . I corrected my post.


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## raybonz (Jan 3, 2013)

jharkin said:


> Read the article, its UV, not X-Rays.
> 
> Its been known for decades that Flourescent lights put out UV. The long tube flourescents that you sit under at work all day long probably put out much more than your houshold CFLs do, and nobody ever got skin cancer sitting in an office.


I agree if you want to use fluorescent lamps as grow lights they need to be 2" away from the plants for the UV to have any affect.. On another note there are ballasted fixtures designed for cold weather applications but they are not CFL's..

Ray


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## raybonz (Jan 3, 2013)

begreen said:


> I haven't bought a regular incandescent bulb in the past 15 yrs, except for an appliance bulb in the refrigerator. We have several halogen desk lamps and I use them for outdoor flood lamps as well. When we redid the bathroom I went all halogen in there too. I'm welcoming the change. It will drive down costs and I like that there are now bulbs in conventional form factors that are halogen inside.
> 
> On the teflon outgassing question, does anyone know if the "yoshi blue" pan has this issue too?


Tried CFL's in the fish tank hood and it was lit up like Las Vegas! Not only that but they promoted algae growth.. Went back to incandescent after this.. BTW I have a couple really cool VERY old Edison lamps here rated in candle power with carbon filaments that came from an old electrical warehouse in Newport, R.I... The glass is hand blown.. Very cool


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## OhioBurner© (Jan 3, 2013)

I don't think incans are anywhere near as bad as needing to be outright banned, I think this is almost silly. Especially with how much material (and toxins) are in cfls. Now I have plenty of cfl's too. But like some of the previous posters there are many applications I prefer incans. Also the extra power they consume - well since half the year I am running electric space heaters for supplimental heat I think the amount of extra power being consumed is null, as it nearly all lost as heat, which I utilize.

I think cfls are a half-assed solution. Regular flourescent can be more efficient anyhow, and they have been around forever but people dont like them mainly due to being ugly, and perhaps sizing issues. But I chose electronic ballasted T8's and T5's (some even with polished reflectors) straight flourescents for various spots around the house and garage. LED's I think are better solution, just too costly still.

I didn't realize teflon was quite this bad though! I mean I heard things, but dismissed them as the 'one in a million chance' of something happening or whatever. I havent found much anything else that I can cook omlettes on, though nice seasoned CI maybe but our current kitchen situation precludes the use of CI. Need something I can throw in the dishwasher. How do those hard anodized aluminum pans work I've never cooked on them before?


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## OhioBurner© (Jan 4, 2013)

raybonz said:


> Tried CFL's in the fish tank hood and it was lit up like Las Vegas! Not only that but they promoted algae growth..


 
This is one application I went flourescent too but not cfls - I needed more light. Algae is a result of nutrients in the water (i.e. fish waste) and too much light. I'm sure cfl would be fine if you could get a smaller one with more equivelent output to what you replaced it with. For me I was growing plants in my tank so I needed a lot of light. I actually used T5's with a ballast designed for higher output lights, overdriving the bulbs to get a little bit more light.


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## raybonz (Jan 4, 2013)

OhioBurner© said:


> This is one application I went flourescent too but not cfls - I needed more light. Algae is a result of nutrients in the water (i.e. fish waste) and too much light. I'm sure cfl would be fine if you could get a smaller one with more equivelent output to what you replaced it with. For me I was growing plants in my tank so I needed a lot of light. I actually used T5's with a ballast designed for higher output lights, overdriving the bulbs to get a little bit more light.


These CFL lamps were actually designed for fish tanks but it was way too bright! The fish demanded tiny little sunglasses lol..

Ray


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## begreen (Jan 5, 2013)

Hearth Mistress said:


> The yoshi blue and other ceramic type style pans do advertise they are "non-teflon" but what they use to make them nonstick isn't discussed . I have several ceramic enamel over cast iron pots and stuff can get stuck or burnt on to the bottom. for the most part, I stick to my stainless steel or cast iron.


 
I read that the organic green pan is actually diamond dust embedded in ptfe. Folks haven't been happy to discover that and reports are that the pans don't stand up well. But so far they seem to like the yoshiblue, well at least at first. But it has problems too. The handle is heavier than the pan making it hard to stay flat on a burner. And after a short while food start sticking badly. I think we'll pass on this.


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