# Harman P series heat shields. Info/Pics? Minimum clearances = yikes



## P38X2 (Oct 14, 2012)

Hello everyone. Nice to see the forum is still going strong and no one's put an eye out.

   One of my stoves is corner installed using Harman's minimum clearances. I found my IR thermometer buried in the junk drawer and decided to play with it. After running the stove at around 3/4 output for about 15 minutes I took a reading of the painted drywall to the sides. 137F...after only 15 min The wall was disturbingly hot to the touch and the paint was getting gummy feeling. Now, I understand the latex paint flash point is higher than that and its a UL tested appliance, but there's NO WAY am I not addressing this issue. I knew it would get warm but not like that.

   My first thought was to put 1/4" cement board on the side walls and cover them with 12" granite tiles...which would match my hearth nicely. I'm sure that would work well but I'd rather not fart around with that project if there's an easier option. Which apparently there is.....

   I'm looking into the Harman heat shield kit. How/where does it attach to the stove? Anyone have pics they'd be willing to upload? I've found only one pic that 'gfreek' posted last year but it doesn't show the fastening points. IMO, it looks slick.....very "factory" looking.

Thanks
-Mike


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## mepellet (Oct 14, 2012)

I worry about the high drywall temps also. I took some readings while running in stove temp. I am pretty sure that they were higher than 137. I could dig them up for you if you'd like. 

Id be curios to see what your drywall temp is after running in stove temp 3 after a couple hours so we can compare.


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## P38X2 (Oct 14, 2012)

I'd check but its 59 here and already too hot in the house. Like I said, it was only after 15 min of approx 3/4 throttle. There's no doubt in my mind it gets/has gotten much hotter than that. Is the wall going to burst into flames?...doubt it but neither would a 5 gallon jug of gasoline and I'm not about to store that next to the stove. That much heat sinking into the wall, surge protector, etc...can't be good. 

Judging by gfreek's pic and looking at my stove, it looks like the installation may require drilling into the main body of the stove. If that's the case, so be it.


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## mepellet (Oct 14, 2012)

I dug up my findings. I measured 149 drywall surface temp when in stove temp 3 and 180 drywall surface temp when in stove temp 5.


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## TheMightyMoe (Oct 14, 2012)

p38x2,

How cold is it out? Once you start getting some heat loss, it should cool the walls considerably. I literally have a thermostat above my stove on the wall, and it rarely gets to a 100*, but when it was warm out, and I was doing test runs, it was getting well over 100*.


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## mepellet (Oct 14, 2012)

The wall I was taking temps from is an interior wall.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Oct 14, 2012)

The lowest flash point for drywall is the flash point for the paper that faces it.  

The bonding of the paper to the actual gypsum base actually increases the flash point.  You might want to look at the flash point of the paint if you know what paint was used.

A decent drywalling job includes a skim coat which should take the facing paper out of the equation as it would be sandwiched between two non combustibles.


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## tsmith (Oct 14, 2012)

1/2" drywall is supposed to have a 1 hour fire resistance rating to open flame. But I also saw that regular sheetrock can only withstand temperatures to 125 degrees unless you have fire rated drywall. That said, both of my stoves are in corner installs with just drywall around them.


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## P38X2 (Oct 14, 2012)

Yes, interior wall painted with latex paint, which I think has a 195F flash point....though that seems a bit low...I hope. The paint is most definitely the weak link here. Skim coat on the drywall?...yeah right! Lol, not in these parts... although the drywallers did an excellent job. 

180!? Sheesh. Again, prob "safe" but that gives me zero piece of mind which is priceless considering the consequences. 

Any info on the heat shield installation procedure?


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## TheMightyMoe (Oct 14, 2012)

The reason I asked my earlier question is because I thought I would need heat shields with my P68. When I was testing my P68 maxxed out and it was 60* outside, my walls were reaching 150*. However...

Once it got cold outside, and I ran on stove/room temp mode, the cold air from the home circulates around/through the stove, and your walls be much colder as well.

Mine is a minimum install against a interior wall as well. Thermostat never read above 90* even when I was returning home from a set back (From 60* to 73* room temp)


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## SmokeyTheBear (Oct 14, 2012)

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...p5PLx0&sig=AHIEtbSDeTn5g9tP7BR3WEQjrPkioQ6IeQ

Latex paint ignition temperature is quite high 200 to 330


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## P38X2 (Oct 14, 2012)

TheMightyMoe, interesting yet hard to rationalize, though I'm not doubting you. NH gets cold but not AK cold so perhaps that's where the difference lies. 

Smokey, thanks for the info. I poked around the internet and found several sites that stated latex paint is nonflammable.... but I ain't buying that for a second. 

As safe as my setup may be, it's bugging me. I'm gonna be worried about it when I'm at work or wherever. I'm still wondering about the effectiveness of the shields. I believe Harman states that it reduces the minimum clearance from 16" to 10" so I assume they'll do the trick and sooth my paranoia.


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## TheMightyMoe (Oct 15, 2012)

Yeah, everything is situational i suppose,I also forgot the 38 isn't as modular as other harman models, Wish mine always put out that much radiant heat, then there would be a non- aesthetic reason to make a hearth. Hope someone has the info your looking for. Also if you up distribution fan speed does it affect the radiant output?


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## gfreek (Oct 15, 2012)

Hey P38X2, they attach to the rear of the stove's burn box. Between the hopper and the stove itself with one bolt.   I had my dealer install them before delivery.  Will post pic later if no one does sooner....


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## SmokeyTheBear (Oct 15, 2012)

P38X2 said:


> TheMightyMoe, interesting yet hard to rationalize, though I'm not doubting you. NH gets cold but not AK cold so perhaps that's where the difference lies.
> 
> Smokey, thanks for the info. I poked around the internet and found several sites that stated latex paint is nonflammable.... but I ain't buying that for a second.
> 
> As safe as my setup may be, it's bugging me. I'm gonna be worried about it when I'm at work or wherever. I'm still wondering about the effectiveness of the shields. I believe Harman states that it reduces the minimum clearance from 16" to 10" so I assume they'll do the trick and sooth my paranoia.


 

It's ignition temperature puts it out of materials that are regulated as a flammable substance for the purposes of storage and transportation.


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## P38X2 (Oct 15, 2012)

TheMightyMoe said:


> Yeah, everything is situational i suppose,I also forgot the 38 isn't as modular as other harman models, Wish mine always put out that much radiant heat, then there would be a non- aesthetic reason to make a hearth. Hope someone has the info your looking for. Also if you up distribution fan speed does it affect the radiant output?



Haven't actually checked but I assume it does to a point. I'm tempted to go with granite on the walls to increase the radiant surface area but...too lazy these days.



gfreek said:


> Hey P38X2, they attach to the rear of the stove's burn box. Between the hopper and the stove itself with one bolt.   I had my dealer install them before delivery.  Will post pic later if no one does sooner....



Did it require removing the hopper?


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## P38X2 (Oct 15, 2012)

Gfreek, I just called my dealer and got my answer so posting a pic isn't necessary, but I appreciate the offer and help. I'm shutting down my stove to get these things on, then I'll post a pic. Supposed to be 70 today so my not so scientific results won't be posted til another day.


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## P38X2 (Oct 15, 2012)

K, shields installed. Piece of cake. 1 bolt on each side between the firebox and the hopper holds each respective shield. The sheilds have a hole with a slot cut into them. Just needed to expose 1/4" or so of the threads of the bolt on the back of the firebox, pop the shield over the bolthead, slide the slot in the shield onto the threads of the bolt and tighten. It took no more than a minute per side.

Top pic shows the bolt that holds the shield. It's the one in the upper flashlight spot. The next pic is the finished product.


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## mepellet (Oct 15, 2012)

Nice! Mind sharing what they cost you?


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## P38X2 (Oct 15, 2012)

Thanks : ) $77


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## gfreek (Oct 15, 2012)

You got it....


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## mepellet (Nov 6, 2012)

P38X2-
Have you noticed a hugger difference in drywall temperatures?


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## P38X2 (Nov 6, 2012)

Yep. Huge difference. Can't really take a "scientific" comparative reading right now. It's considerably colder outside than that day and the stove is currently on low. Very happy with the purchase.

Are you considering them?


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## mepellet (Nov 7, 2012)

P38X2 said:


> Yep. Huge difference. Can't really take a "scientific" comparative reading right now. It's considerably colder outside than that day and the stove is currently on low. Very happy with the purchase.
> 
> Are you considering them?


Yes I am. I just hooked up a programmable thermostat and worry about the drive cranking on high when I want the room to warm up several degrees. I assume the shields for the p61 are more than the p38. I will call sometime.


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## P38X2 (Nov 7, 2012)

mepellet said:


> Yes I am. I just hooked up a programmable thermostat and worry about the drive cranking on high when I want the room to warm up several degrees. I assume the shields for the p61 are more than the p38. I will call sometime.



Not sure what you mean. Are you saying your thermostat is in close proximity to the stove and you're worried about radiant heat throwing off the readings?


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## mepellet (Nov 7, 2012)

Sorry. I didn't elaborate on that.  I meant that I'd like to use my programmable thermostat to setback the temperature during the day while we are not home and then bring the temp back up just before we get home at night.  If I do this, when the thermostat starts calling for heat to bring the temp back up, the stove will be putting out a bunch of heat for a longer period of time.  This is the time that the drywall temp worries me.  Same idea if I end up using a larger swing setting on the thermostat.  If I don't use a setback, the stove doesn't come on for long periods of time.  Short little bursts that boost the room temp back up a degree or two and then goes back to idle.


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## mepellet (Nov 20, 2012)

Turns out the high temperatures are a result of the installer locating my stove too close to the wall.  Manual says 13" and the stove was installed at 11" (corner install).  I contacted the dealer last week and all they did was take my information down and said that they would look up my papers to see.  I haven't heard back.  I contacted them about something unrelated a couple months ago and never heard back either.  Starting to get frustrated with them.  I will call back to see what they can do to correct the incorrect install.  I'd be willing to pick the heat shields up and install them so that they don't have to send out a tech.


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## P38X2 (Nov 20, 2012)

Ahhhh, sounds like a case for FREE heat shields 

Highly unlikely it would be cheaper for them to send out a tech and supplies.

How far away is your dealer? Send a pic with a tape measure on top showing the clearance. Maybe throw a pic of Judge Judy for added effect.

Can't believe they wouldn't get back to you on this touchy of an issue.


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## mepellet (Nov 20, 2012)

P38X2 said:


> Ahhhh, sounds like a case for FREE heat shields
> 
> Highly unlikely it would be cheaper for them to send out a tech and supplies.
> 
> ...


The dealer is about 15 minutes away. I would be willing to pick them up to lessen their cost. I worry now anytime the stove is running. Hopefully they have some warranty on their install. I would think for something like this there should be.


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## Bioburner (Nov 20, 2012)

Maybe a letter from your insurance company. You pay cash or credit? They have a builders or installer license? Just a couple ways to try and get action to remedy their screwup.


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## mepellet (Nov 20, 2012)

Called the dealer today. They had ordered the heat shields and said that they are going to give then to me at no charge. Guess they were just too busy to call me to let me know what they decided. Said that they would call when they come in and that I could drop in to pick them up. So free heat shields it is. Cheapest way out for the dealer too... I will feel more comfortable once they are installed and I then know for sure that my stove is installed correctly. I didn't think I had to check the installers work...


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## P38X2 (Nov 20, 2012)

Glad you have a resolution. I think you'll like the heat shields. They're very incognito. Couple quick install tips....first off, be careful you don't scratch up your stove. The edges are fairly sharp. Also, you gotta make sure you keep decent pressure on them as you tighten the bolt cuz they'll kinda shift on you. With a gear wrench it shouldn't take more than a minute per side.


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## mepellet (Nov 20, 2012)

Thanks for the tips. I'd rather not need them but I guess I have to deal with it since the stove was installed incorrectly.


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## mepellet (Dec 23, 2012)

Picked up the shields yesterday and installed them last night after dinner. They blend in very nicely. Hard to tell that they are even there. One thing I forget about though was the smell of a new stove "burning in." Boy don't they smell. Probably won't last long though. Stove only has turned on twice since I put them on. Sure stunk this morning. I woke up soon after the Tstat  switched from 64 to 68. Stove was ran pretty hot for about half an hour to bring the temp up to 71 (3 deg swing).


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## ffsteve (Jan 2, 2013)

Where can you buy the side heat shields online? For the p43.


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## Bioburner (Jan 3, 2013)

I think P38X2 got them from dealer for $77. Not really worth the hasssle of searching the net for, plus one should support your local dealer once in awhile as they can give you tips and support for your stove unless you have a total loser for a dealer or in my case over  150 miles away.


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## m159267 (Jan 3, 2013)

I installed heat shields on my P38 when it was initially installed. Right now I am running stove temp on a setting of 3 (older model). 13 inches on each side to the drywall (parallel - not corner). Drywall measures 78 - 80 degrees on my IR thermometer. The shields themselves measure 158 on right side to 175 on left.


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## P38X2 (Jan 3, 2013)

Bioburner said:


> I think P38X2 got them from dealer for $77. Not really worth the hasssle of searching the net for, plus one should support your local dealer once in awhile as they can give you tips and support for your stove unless you have a total loser for a dealer or in my case over  150 miles away.



Yep, $77. Just go to the dealer. Should be way less hassle.



mepellet said:


> Picked up the shields yesterday and installed them last night after dinner. They blend in very nicely. Hard to tell that they are even there. One thing I forget about though was the smell of a new stove "burning in." Boy don't they smell. Probably won't last long though. Stove only has turned on twice since I put them on. Sure stunk this morning. I woke up soon after the Tstat  switched from 64 to 68. Stove was ran pretty hot for about half an hour to bring the temp up to 71 (3 deg swing).



Nice. They're pretty slick looking for what they are and work VERY well.


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