# cast iron vs steel



## AZ23 (Mar 18, 2014)

Besides the look of it, any other advantages- Some say cast iron keeps heat in the room - but I have no experience.

They both hot to touch too?


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## Bioburner (Mar 18, 2014)

I think its more of how much steel or cast iron. There is a lot of cool cabinet stoves and then there is stoves like the Harman p series that is a heavy hot body stove. A cool cabinet stove does not radiate much heat but relies on the exchanger to put heat into a area.


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## AZ23 (Mar 18, 2014)

so between a p series harman and the harman xxv which is cast iron, is there any benefit?


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## john193 (Mar 18, 2014)

The xxv won't scold you if you touch the stove at full blast, the p series will. The xxv radiates nearly no heat as compared to the p series.


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## Snowy Rivers (Mar 18, 2014)

If you have a space that will allow the install of a stove that can radiate heat as well as pass the warm air from the exchanger you can likely get better heating overall.

Now there are the considerations of pets, kids and such.
Personally, I prefer the cold body stove with the heat out the front only, as it allows some very creative installs.

The cast stoves are a tad more fragile than a welded body stoves are, but both have a place.

I have owned both types, but prefer the welded body type. 

Just some thoughts.

Snowy


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## AZ23 (Mar 18, 2014)

ya so steel is probably best


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## Seasoned Oak (Mar 18, 2014)

From what know cast iron can take a slightly higher temp before melting,but cast iron cracks much easier and is much much harder to weld. All things considered Ill take the steel any day.


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## Stevekng (Mar 18, 2014)

Seasoned Oak said:


> From what know cast iron can take a slightly higher temp before melting,but cast iron cracks much easier and is much much harder to weld. All things considered Ill take the steel any day.


It all depends on the type of steel you are referring to . There is a cold rolled steel category that is a 1018 Rc 5 to 20. That stuff is crap and is about as stable as balsa wood. There is also a hot rolled variety of steels as well as forged steel, which is the most desirable process for parts manufacturing.  There is 4140 heat treat, 300 series stainless, 600 series stainless, 400 series stainless and a lot of exotic steel alloys.

Cast iron is the same. there aren't as many varieties but the quality is most important. The volume of sand in the casting and any voids within the casting degrade the life of the iron, leading to it being fragile,  and will lead to cracks and breakage. China is not known for being a source of quality castings.


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## Bioburner (Mar 18, 2014)

Stevekng said:


> It all depends on the type of steel you are referring to . There is a cold rolled steel category that is a 1018 Rc 5 to 20. That stuff is crap and is about as stable as balsa wood. There is also a hot rolled variety of steels as well as forged steel, which is the most desirable process for parts manufacturing.  There is 4140 heat treat, 300 series stainless, 600 series stainless, 400 series stainless and a lot of exotic steel alloys.
> 
> Cast iron is the same. there aren't as many varieties but the quality is most important. The volume of sand in the casting and any voids within the casting degrade the life of the iron, leading to it being fragile,  and will lead to cracks and breakage. China is not known for being a source of quality castings.


Or stoves. Window mounted home burning stoves with bad burn pots. Pet food and baby formula.


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## john193 (Mar 18, 2014)

Bioburner said:


> Or stoves. Window mounted home burning stoves with bad burn pots. Pet food and baby formula.


I agree for the most part but some responsibility lies with the parent company as well. High quality requires extra scrutiny and oversight in China. Look at Apple, you'd be hard presses to find people who think an iphone is poorly made.  

For the most part however, companies outsource solely for the all might buck. However there are a few companies that do it while still retaining quality.


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## Lake Girl (Mar 18, 2014)

Does Piazzetta have cast body stoves?  Or just portions of?


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## oldwood (Mar 18, 2014)

Just cleaned a new to me 2nd hand Sabrina, made with a combination of cast and steel. Looks well constructed but time will tell, been a wood burner since 1981 but needed something a little less labor intensive.


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## Chitownhillbilly (Mar 18, 2014)

john193 said:


> I agree for the most part but some responsibility lies with the parent company as well. High quality requires extra scrutiny and oversight in China. Look at Apple, you'd be hard presses to find people who think an iphone is poorly made.
> 
> For the most part however, companies outsource solely for the all might buck. However there are a few companies that do it while still retaining quality.




Yep, you still "Get what ya pay for"... even in China.  They have excellent quality control, when you pay for it.  They will have someone check every single piece that goes in a crate if you pay for it.  But as John pointed out, a lot of the Companies doing business over there are focused on maximizing profits.


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## Snowy Rivers (Mar 18, 2014)

The cast iron question is not an easy one.

What is in the IRON in the way of it's alloy ?? higher nickel or chromium will make the iron far tougher.

Engine blocks, which see a bazillion duty cycles are usually cast from a high nickel content formula.

Just plain low grade gray iron can be pretty much crap.

A graphite based iron is prone to cracking, as it is porous due to the graphite thats in the structure.

The extreme and often uneven heating can result in cracks in the casting.

Drop a cast stove, or hit it hard, and you may crack it.

Most steel stoves are made from mild steel sheet that is cut, formed and welded easily.
Using alloy steels is expensive and not needed for such items.

Many alloy steels do not react well with repeated hot cold duty cylcles.

Mild steel will handle repeated duty cycles without issue.

Castings can be made to reflect beautiful designs, with decorative scroll work and such, buttttttttttt
the issue of cracking is always a concern.

The big issue is that castings, to be of any real worth, need to be cured well.

A "green" casting is going to move a lot during its first few duty cycles, and WARP

Cast stoves are made in pieces, and then the pieces are bolted together to form the stove body.

Many times there will be cast iron parts and steel parts that all bolt together to form the finished product.

Steel pellet stove can be handled pretty rough, and short of bending or denting are good to go.

Spindly cast legs are always a nightmare when moving.

They look nice, but if bumped wrong can snap off.

The welded pedestal is stronger, but at the sacrifice of looks and style.


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## Snowy Rivers (Mar 18, 2014)

The cast iron question is not an easy one.

What is in the IRON in the way of it's alloy ?? higher nickel or chromium will make the iron far tougher.

Engine blocks, which see a bazillion duty cycles are usually cast from a high nickel content formula.

Just plain low grade gray iron can be pretty much crap.

A graphite based iron is prone to cracking, as it is porous due to the graphite thats in the structure.

The extreme and often uneven heating can result in cracks in the casting.

Drop a cast stove, or hit it hard, and you may crack it.

Most steel stoves are made from mild steel sheet that is cut, formed and welded easily.
Using alloy steels is expensive and not needed for such items.

Many alloy steels do not react well with repeated hot cold duty cylcles.

Mild steel will handle repeated duty cycles without issue.

Castings can be made to reflect beautiful designs, with decorative scroll work and such, buttttttttttt
the issue of cracking is always a concern.

The big issue is that castings, to be of any real worth, need to be cured well.

A "green" casting is going to move a lot during its first few duty cycles, and WARP

Cast stoves are made in pieces, and then the pieces are bolted together to form the stove body.

Many times there will be cast iron parts and steel parts that all bolt together to form the finished product.

Steel pellet stoves can be handled pretty rough, and short of bending or denting are good to go.

Spindly cast legs are always a nightmare when moving.

They look nice, but if bumped wrong can snap off.

The welded pedestal is stronger, but at the sacrifice of looks and style.

I have owned both, but if I have the choice would buy a steel stove.

Just some thoughts


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## dave2112 (Mar 18, 2014)

I like cast stoves better. But you are just basically paying a little more for looks. Because the guts are made from plate steel. I wish they would come out with one were the whole thing was made out of thick cast iron. (Except burn pot)


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## AZ23 (Mar 18, 2014)

I was debating on harman xxv or p61, either way if a kid touches the heat they are going to jump


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## alternativeheat (Mar 18, 2014)

AZ23 said:


> I was debating on harman xxv or p61, either way if a kid touches the heat they are going to jump


You know what a P61 runs and feels like, the same as your P43, just a bit bigger and slightly hotter when burning really hot ( more surface area). Do they have an XXV at the stove shop they could fire up for you and you could experience first hand ? Then instead of guessing how a cast stove feels you will know.


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## BGStG1aholic (Mar 18, 2014)

john193 said:


> The xxv won't scold you if you touch the stove at full blast, the p series will. The xxv radiates nearly no heat as compared to the p series.


 

^^^^ THIS ^^^^

This is something to consider between these stoves

My old Avalon would put a burn scar on your arm if you brushed against it when using the controls, I could almost boil water on it(tried it once)

My new cast XXV puts out a tremendous amount of heat while the exterior remains below skin burn temps. unless you touch it for more than a few seconds on the side, just a casual bump or rub isn't gonna burn you like some other stoves will. It also makes it a bit easier dumping the pellets into the hopper not having to worry about getting scorched or melting the bag because of accidental contact. Kinda handy when you get older


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## chken (Mar 18, 2014)

Lake Girl said:


> Does Piazzetta have cast body stoves?  Or just portions of?


It appears to me that the back and top of my Sabrina's firebox are cast, while the sides are stainless, as is the rest of the body. On the outside, the top and vent area are cast as well.


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## BGStG1aholic (Mar 18, 2014)

AZ23 said:


> I was debating on harman xxv or p61, either way if a kid touches the heat they are going to jump


 

If you're worried about a kid touching it by accident the XXV is the way to go. They WILL jump but won't sustain scarring burns from just accidental contact whereas other stoves will burn the heck outta ya just by brushing against it.


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## Lake Girl (Mar 18, 2014)

If concerned about children and accidental bumps, they do make gates that can be put up to keep them a safe distance away.  Aesthetically not as pleasing but keeps the little ones safe.  Apparently easy to remove sections when required for stove maintenance.

When we first bought our house on the lake, it had a valley comfort wood stove.  My daughter's first word was "hot" and she never got a burn.  That was 23 years ago - I've learned a lot since then


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## Enigma869 (Mar 19, 2014)

We had an Accentra insert (cast iron) in our last house and now have a P68 (steel).  The difference is quite significant.  I made the mistake of touching the top of my P68 when we first got it and thought I was going to be going to the emergency room.  The top of the Accentra wasn't even warm, when the stove was running full blast (which due to its limitations was ALWAYS).  I could actually rest the plastic pellet bag on top of the Accentra while I was filling the hopper.  There is zero chance you're doing that with a steel stove...unless you want quite the mess on your hands.  The P series also radiates MUCH more heat into the room than my Accentra did while dialed down (i.e. a maintenance burn).  I guess the cast iron doesn't allow all that heat to escape the way steel does.


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## AZ23 (Mar 19, 2014)

So are you saying that you get more heat from the p series? You'd stick with p


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## Hoot23 (Mar 19, 2014)

When we first got our stove 3 years ago my son was 2 1\2. I shut the stove down and cleaned it. I fired it up and let it get hot, but not hot enough to burn him, but hot enough to know to stay away. He touched it and jumped back and said hot and ran off and started playing again. We have never had a gate around it and he steers clear of it. Never had problem with it


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## TonyVideo (Mar 19, 2014)

AZ23 said:


> So are you saying that you get more heat from the p series? You'd stick with p



I looked at the XXV bought bought a P68 and P43. The P series does get hot on the outside if you are cranking heat On low you won't get scalded but know you will have touched something hot. I wanted as much heat into the room as possible even if the stove radiated heat on the outside. Check the install location distances of each stove to a wall as that may help in determining your choice depending on where you are putting it.


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## AZ23 (Mar 19, 2014)

Thanks, I think I am going to go with the p61 - it's a jump from the p43 and I know they are great machines.


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## Enigma869 (Mar 19, 2014)

AZ23 said:


> So are you saying that you get more heat from the p series? You'd stick with p


 
Well, in my case, I have the P68, so I'm reasonably certain that I'm probably getting more heat out of this beast than most other stoves on the market.  I really loved the look of my Accentra insert, but it simply wasn't capable enough for really cold days in New England.  I almost always had to run the Accentra full throttle (i.e. the temperature dial cranked up as high as it would go).  I never turn that same dial on my P68 past about 70 degrees and it has zero issues keeping up...even on the very coldest of days.  I'm certainly not going to blame that on the steel versus cast iron debate.  It has far more to do with the BTU output of the two stoves.


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## cory127 (Mar 19, 2014)

AZ23 said:


> Thanks, I think I am going to go with the p61 - it's a jump from the p43 and I know they are great machines.


 
You'll love it!  I had to make the same decision as you: P61 vs. XXV. We had a wood stove at our last house and I really enjoyed the radiant heat.  We kept a gate around it to keep our toddler away.  Now that we're at our new place I went with the 61, mostly for the BTUs, but also for the radiant heat.  Gate around it to keep our 7 month old away as he gets mobile.  Either way, you can't go wrong!


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## AZ23 (Mar 19, 2014)

So you debated the xxv too?


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## cory127 (Mar 19, 2014)

AZ23 said:


> So you debated the xxv too?


 
Yes. In the end, it came down to performance.  Not sure the XXV would have been able to heat my whole house.  Had a couple nights in the single digits, and the P61 hasn't had a problem.  It doesn't look half bad, either.  Originally planned on getting the trim kit, but now that it's in, the wife and I both kind of like it just black.


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## AZ23 (Mar 19, 2014)

How many sq feet are you heating again?  I have 2600 split entry and this going in the lower level family room.


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## cory127 (Mar 19, 2014)

AZ23 said:


> How many sq feet are you heating again?  I have 2600 split entry and this going in the lower level family room.


 
2500 sqft colonial.  Stove is in the family room on the first floor.


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## AZ23 (Mar 19, 2014)

ya I have approx what you have- so probably the 61 will deliver more in cold situations


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## Stevekng (Mar 19, 2014)

Another thread turned into an unrelated Harman Love Fest


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## Hoot23 (Mar 19, 2014)

The OP is a Harman owner.


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## BGStG1aholic (Mar 19, 2014)

Actually the OP is a soon to be Harman owner. He is trying to decide between the cast XXV and the steel P series 61 stove

I just bought an XXV because of it's sheer beauty(enamel finish) and quality. I think mebee the P series is a bit more bang for the buck but not quite as purdy, just my zwei pfennig


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## chken (Mar 19, 2014)

I thought the OP was a new P43 owner who decided he didn't like to run it on high feed, and wants to run a XXV or P61 on medium feed rates.


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## BGStG1aholic (Mar 19, 2014)

chken said:


> I thought the OP was a new P43 owner who decided he didn't like to run it on high feed, and wants to run a XXV or P61 on medium feed rates.


 

Ohhhhhhhhh, mebee so - I appologise, musta missed that part(or quite possibly forgot)

I stand corrected

Heck OP, if you already have a P43, just buy another and put it on the other level of your split level home. Nothing more assuring than having more than one stove hooked up ready to go. They don't take up much space and are easier than heck to install. I've put my old Avalon in storage in the next room so since it's sitting there anyway I plumbed in the exhaust and oak so I can use it when I need to shut down my Harman for cleaning or whatever may happen. Kinda like having a spare tire  If it's really nippy out I would'nt wanna go w/o heat for just a few days waiting for a stove part from the dealer

something to consider depending on how cold it gets in your part of the country


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