# Programmable Thermostat Question



## gerryger (Oct 7, 2011)

I replaced my thermostat that came with the Santa Fe with a Honeywell RTH6350D 1000/A 5-2 day Programmable Thermostat . I wanted more control than just an on-off stat. My question is does anyone use this stat? My concern is the constant shutting down and restarting of the stove. Worried about igniter issues down the road. When the stat is satisfied the unit shuts down obviously, however the unit starts back up very quickly like 10 minutes or so later. I feel like that temperature difference in the room hasn't changed (this is also proven by looking at the room temp readout on the stat). So why is the stove restarting so fast. I think I need to look at the differential settings on the stat and modify them. 

In the mean time has anyone who owns this stat experienced this and do you have any recommendations. 

Thanks


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## mepellet (Oct 7, 2011)

Sorry i can't help with the specific question but thermostat placement is critical to prevent short cycling.


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## jtakeman (Oct 7, 2011)

Check your Stat's manual to see if there is a setting to increase the swing. If it set a 1 degree increase it to 1 1/2 or 2 degree's. This will give more time before it cycles on again.


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## gerryger (Oct 7, 2011)

I was just doing some research on my stat and I read the following:

_the only way to change the differential temperature is by adjusting the cycle rate. The cycle rate determines how often heating is turned on and off over a specific period of time. If you want your heating unit to turn on less frequently and run longer, lower the cycle rate. You cannot change the differential setting by a specific number of degrees on digital Honeywell thermostats.
_
More confused?? Any thoughts?


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## SmokeyTheBear (Oct 7, 2011)

The long and short of it is that that thermostat doesn't have a user settable swing differential.


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## GrahamInVa (Oct 7, 2011)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

> The long and short of it is that that thermostat doesn't have a user settable swing differential.



I installed a Honeywell TH6320R1004 Wireless FocusPRO 5-1-1 Programmable thermostat when I installed my stove this summer.

It never dawned on me about the "swing" temp issue until I started burning a few weeks ago. I tried adjusting the "cycles per hour" but it made no difference. The stove was on and off constantly. My thermostat is not that close to the stove either, about 12'.

I bought a Skytech 5301P this week and installed it last night. It has an adjustable swing. The programmable part is a little weird but overall it seems to work much better and the stove runs for 1-2 hours before shutting off. I have it set at a 2 degree swing.


Maybe adjusting your cycles per hour will work better than mine did. It's worth a try before pulling it out.


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## kofkorn (Oct 7, 2011)

Cycle rate is used more often with A/C compressors.  They are normally required to stop for a certain period of time before they kick back on so that the motor isn't trying to start if the system is already pressurized.  

What you will be able to do with that thermostat is prevent the stove from turning back on for a period of XX minutes after shutting down.  After XX minutes go by, it works as a standard thermostat again, turning on when the temperature is below your level.  With this situation, you may find your house too cold before it kicks back on.

You're probably better off looking for a stat with an adjustable differential.  

There are several on here recommended by others.

Good luck!


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## richkorn (Oct 7, 2011)

GrahamInVa said:
			
		

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Use same one and works great. Set to 2 deg swing.

EDITED: Mine is actually the basic 3301p with simple LCD screen.


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## GrahamInVa (Oct 7, 2011)

richkorn said:
			
		

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looks cool too, right?


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## mepellet (Oct 7, 2011)

GrahamInVa said:
			
		

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Yes it does.  It also looks expensive.


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## Don2222 (Oct 7, 2011)

gerryger said:
			
		

> I replaced my thermostat that came with the Santa Fe with a Honeywell RTH6350D 1000/A 5-2 day Programmable Thermostat . I wanted more control than just an on-off stat. My question is does anyone use this stat? My concern is the constant shutting down and restarting of the stove. Worried about igniter issues down the road. When the stat is satisfied the unit shuts down obviously, however the unit starts back up very quickly like 10 minutes or so later. I feel like that temperature difference in the room hasn't changed (this is also proven by looking at the room temp readout on the stat). So why is the stove restarting so fast. I think I need to look at the differential settings on the stat and modify them.
> 
> In the mean time has anyone who owns this stat experienced this and do you have any recommendations.
> 
> Thanks



I have a Honeywell 5-2 Thermostat with No Swing setting, so I use it like a Timer in the shoulder seasons.

I set 1st time setting to 80 deg F at 3:00 AM and the stove comes on to a lower heat setting. Then the 2nd time setting at 10 AM I set the stat to 50 Deg F to turn the stove off. For the time setting 3 and 4, I keep it set at 50 deg F so the stove stays off.

Simple cheap and works great. No igniter issues!


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## tjnamtiw (Oct 7, 2011)

Yea, you are basically screwed with that one!  The Ritetemp 6022 or 6025 both have swing adjustments and are very reasonably priced at around $30 for the 6022, which I've had for 2+ years.  Like someone else said, It sounds like you have the present one in a bad location where a draft or cool air from another room is hitting it.  Maybe if you put it inside one of those boxes that is meant to keep people from constantly adjusting it, the temperature change would take longer to affect it.  Just a suggestion.


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## tjnamtiw (Oct 7, 2011)

I looked at Lowes and they have a Lux thermostat for $19 with 9 adjustments for swing.  It's stock number is LTX500e.  On the LUX site, it is TX500E.  That's where I got the swing numbers.  If it were me, I'd ask to read the directions at Lowes before I bought it to ensure it has the swing settings.  
http://www.lowes.com/pl_Programmable+Thermostats_4294821951_4294937087_?Ns=p_product_price|0

You can spend a lot more but WHY????  All you are doing is programming a contact to open and close when you want it to.  Not rocket science.


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## mepellet (Oct 7, 2011)

tjnamtiw said:
			
		

> I looked at Lowes and they have a Lux thermostat for $19 with 9 adjustments for swing.  It's stock number is LTX500e.  On the LUX site, it is TX500E.  That's where I got the swing numbers.  If it were me, I'd ask to read the directions at Lowes before I bought it to ensure it has the swing settings.
> http://www.lowes.com/pl_Programmable+Thermostats_4294821951_4294937087_?Ns=p_product_price|0
> 
> You can spend a lot more but WHY????  All you are doing is programming a contact to open and close when you want it to.  Not rocket science.



That's the thermostat I'd probably get but I don't have easy access for wiring anything so I guess I'll have to save my pennies for a wireless one.


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## jtakeman (Oct 7, 2011)

If its possible? I'd return that honeywell and go for a ritetemp or lux. Easiest way out.

Lux TX500e has been doing dandy for me for several years now.


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## begreen (Oct 7, 2011)

+1 

I had an inexpensive Lux on my pellet stove. I think it was the TX500. It has a user settable swing differential. Liked it so much I got one for the propane furnace as well. Now several of my friends have them. 

http://www.amazon.com/Lux-Products-TX500E-010-Programmable-Thermostat/dp/B001C0G8TE


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## gerryger (Oct 7, 2011)

I really don't think my stat is in a bad location and causing the problem. For instance if I set it to turn the unit off when room temp hits 70 degrees, it does it. However it is turning back on a short time later, with the stat still indicating a 70 degree room temp. How can it start and turn off at the same room temp. May as well keep it running non-stop using that scenario.  The fact that it doesn't have a swing setting is my problem. A bad oversight on Honeywell's part.  Looking into the Skytech 5301P or the Lux.

The bottom line in my opinion is if a stat doesn't have a swing differential setting then it shouldn't be used for a pellet stove. 

As far as using my current stat during the shoulder season by basically using it as a timer ... I agree, it will work using that method as a timer.


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## kofkorn (Oct 7, 2011)

The Honeywell Thermostat that I have lists a feature as having a "0.2 Degree differential, maintaining a steady temperature"  Which works well for my Englander in Hi/Low Mode, but is really bad for a stove working in an On/Off mode.


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## gerryger (Oct 7, 2011)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> I had an inexpensive Lux on my pellet stove. I think it was the TX500. It has a user settable swing differential.



I just read the manual for this stat. It does have a swing setting adjustment however it is based on cycles per hour, not temperature difference. 

Looking for one that is based on temp like the SkyTech model, however its $200.


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## GrahamInVa (Oct 7, 2011)

gerryger said:
			
		

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There are other Skytech models that are less expensive. The 3301P is a good one.
$110 w/ shipping on ebay. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Skytech-330...aultDomain_0&hash=item2c5f9db3cd#ht_500wt_922


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## begreen (Oct 7, 2011)

gerryger said:
			
		

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I can see why the confusion, by increasing the swing, the result will be the device coming on less frequently per hour. That is where the manual is probably confusing you.  But for sure, the swing setting for this unit controls the difference between the on/off temps. I have installed several and am positive this is the way it works. 

A thermostat works by turning your heating or cooling system on and off whenever the room temperature *varies a certain number of degrees from the set-point temperature. This variation is the â€œswing.â€*

The setting on this unit varies the swing, not the frequency. The increments are in half degrees if memory serves me correctly.

gerryger, where is your thermostat in relation to the stove? If it is in the same room that could be a problem. If that is the case you might try moving it around the corner or on the opposite side of the wall it is installed on (if that is possible).


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## jtakeman (Oct 7, 2011)

gerryger said:
			
		

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I can assure you the Lux TX 500 does have the adjustable swing setting.

Quote from manual


> SWING SETTING
> A thermostat works by turning your heating or cooling system on and off
> whenever the room temperature varies from the set-point temperature. The
> amount of this variation is called the â€œswing.â€ Your system should cycle on about
> ...



No value of the swing is listed in the TX500e manual. Someone(kevinc) checked the Lux 9100e and it states .25 degrees for each number increased.

Default #1 is .25 degrees(stat set at 70ÂºF stove comes on at 69.75ÂºF and goes off at 70.25ÂºF) If you want more time between cycles you can raise it to 4 which is 1Âº of swing.


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## gerryger (Oct 7, 2011)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> gerryger, where is your thermostat in relation to the stove? If it is in the same room that could be a problem.



It is located directly behind the stove which is where the installer suggested. I'm not sure how moving the stat to another location will help with the short cycling. Lets say I move the stat far away from the stove and I set the stat at 70 to turn the stove off when room temp reaches 70....the stat does turn off the stove. The problem is the stat will turn the stove back on when it sees a .02 degree temp drop in the room. How does moving the location of the stat change this equation. Once the room temp drops .02 degrees the stove will start which is usually about 5 minutes. I want the stat to turn the stove back on when the room temp drops to 68 or 67 degrees. 

I will check out the lux or the skytech models.


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## kofkorn (Oct 7, 2011)

The air around the stove will warm up much more quickly than the air say 10 feet away.  By having it further from the stove, you will be warming the entire room by .2 degrees which will take a lot longer than warming the air near the stove.  

I would put it on a far wall, not in direct line with the room blower.


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## gerryger (Oct 7, 2011)

Isn't it a .2 degrees temp *drop* of the room temperature that will make the stove turn back on. This drop should take longer around the stove and yet it still restarts in only about 5 minutes.

The problem is not with the stove turning off...it is with the restarting.


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## richkorn (Oct 7, 2011)

gerryger said:
			
		

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Skytech Wireless 3301P got for $95


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## kofkorn (Oct 7, 2011)

You are right,[del] partially[/del] it is a temp drop that makes the stove turn on, however, the problem is that with the thermostat near the stove, it turns off as soon as it rises .2 degrees as well.  Since the air around the stove heats faster, the stat turns off before the rest of the room warms.  When the stove turns off, the rest of the cooler air circulates back to the stove quickly, dropping the temp back down quickly.  By moving the stat further away, you will be warming much more air before the stove turns off.  It should take much longer for the large mass of air to cool down.

If it's possible, use a length of T-stat wire and just run it across the floor.  Try your stat in a couple of locations, and see which one works best. It shouldn't take more than 2 hrs per location to give you an idea of how it works.  When you find the best spot, you can then figure out how to run the wire.  

Just make sure no one trips over the wire  You don't want to yank anything off of your board.


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## Fish On (Oct 7, 2011)

not to rob your post but i have a skytech 5301 p and never used it. 

i had the quad smart batt but hated it. 

this is still in the box got it this year i think i paid around 185 not sure but if somebody wants it make me an offer............


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## tjnamtiw (Oct 7, 2011)

gerryger said:
			
		

> I really don't think my stat is in a bad location and causing the problem. For instance if I set it to turn the unit off when room temp hits 70 degrees, it does it. However it is turning back on a short time later, with the stat still indicating a 70 degree room temp. How can it start and turn off at the same room temp. May as well keep it running non-stop using that scenario.  The fact that it doesn't have a swing setting is my problem. A bad oversight on Honeywell's part.  Looking into the Skytech 5301P or the Lux.
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> The bottom line in my opinion is if a stat doesn't have a swing differential setting then it shouldn't be used for a pellet stove.
> 
> As far as using my current stat during the shoulder season by basically using it as a timer ... I agree, it will work using that method as a timer.



If you already have the wires run, go for the inexpensive LUX.  Several here just now endorsed it.  Can't go wrong for $19.  It sounds like your present one is DEFINITELY not what you want if it's turning on and off at the same temp!
I have a Skytech on my second stove only because there was literally no way to run wires to the preferred location for a normal stat.  If there were, I sure wouldn't have spent the bucks for an on/off switch!


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## gerryger (Oct 7, 2011)

Yeah I think you are right. I'm going to go with the inexpensive Lux. I can't justify the $150-$200 for the SkyTech. I can buy a ton of pellets for that price.


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## DexterDay (Oct 7, 2011)

I will be the 1st to say that you could prob get away with what you have. I also have a Skytech Remote W/ programable swing temp.

I love it. Now for my suggestion. What heat setting are you using. If it is High or even Med. Try using the next lower level and then use a floor or cieling fan on low. This will yake the room longer to warm up.

I only use the Low setting on my Quad. Whether its the shoulders and I use the thermo. Or dead of Winter and I am running 24/7. A lower temp provides a better "Soak" temp. IMHO

I had the Smart-stat system when I bought my stove. Had no adjustable swing. Thank god it took a crap. Got the 5301 Skytech now... Having the ability to go from a 1-3* swing is nice. Using the Low setting the stove will run longer and use the same amount of pellets as if you ran it on high for half the time. You are overheating the area close to the stove with a higher heat setting. Going lower allows the air to warm and be dispersed throughout your home without giving the stat a large jump or change in temp.

A newer thermo can be had for cheap. But for free you can try this...


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## IHATEPROPANE (Oct 7, 2011)

Do you run the blower on high?  My manual says to maximize efficiency to leave the fan speed at its programmed speed.  I would think with the blower on high more heat gets out of the stove and not out the exhaust.   Also, I have one of these little honeywell fans that you can point towards the ceiling.  Should this go near the stove?

I started using the Hi/Lo for the first time the other night and after a period on running on low my stove re-adjusted the convection blower.  From high to its normal setting.  Not sure why.


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## gerryger (Oct 8, 2011)

DexterDay said:
			
		

> What heat setting are you using. If it is High or even Med. Try using the next lower level and then use a floor or cieling fan on low. This will yake the room longer to warm up.



I always use my ceiling fan on winter mode on low during the heating season. Plenty of hot air up at the ceiling level to circulate. 

I'm going to take the existing Honeywell out due to its lack of swing setting adjustment. I think the Lux stat will solve my problem of short cycling. 

I was gonna go with the Lux LTX500E but just recently reviewed the Lux TX9000TS Touchscreen 7-Day Programmable Thermostat and I may go with that one. Its ranked number 1 by Consumer Reports and is back lit. The LTX500E is not. It also has a swing setting up to 2.5 degrees. Just what I'm looking for at an affordable price.


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## begreen (Oct 8, 2011)

gerryger said:
			
		

> Yeah I think you are right. I'm going to go with the inexpensive Lux. I can't justify the $150-$200 for the SkyTech. I can buy a ton of pellets for that price.



Sorry to say, but your installer was wrong about the installation location. I don't think getting a new thermostat is required. Move the thermostat and this issue will be solved. In the current location the thermostat is reacting to the heat of the stove causing it to short cycle.


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## DexterDay (Oct 8, 2011)

BeGreen said:
			
		

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Yep.... New location or Lower setting. The room is heating up way to Fast. My Thermo is almost 30' away. Never had a problem with the distance and the receiver getting the signal.


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## tjnamtiw (Oct 8, 2011)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> Sorry to say, but your installer was wrong about the installation location. I don't think getting a new thermostat is required. Move the thermostat and this issue will be solved. In the current location the thermostat is reacting to the heat of the stove causing it to short cycle.



It is strange that the installer put it directly above the stove unless he was thinking that the 'return' air to the circulation blower would pass over it and that was the coolest air in the room.  Almost like the Harman's put a probe out in the room or don't they also have an option to measure the return air?  Not all that familiar with them.

My Ritetemp stat is mounted on a wall to the left of the stove and facing the opposite wall to the stove.  Air has to pass it from the dining room and hallway to get back to the stove.  A one degree swing gives me an overall swing of about 5 degrees from shut down to arresting the drop in temp after restart.

I sit my Skytech on a table across the family room from my Castile and, with a one degree swing programmed in, I get the same 5 degree overall differential.

PS.  I don't even see a 9000 series LUX on their website!  I did find the manual and it has the swing plus a lot of other goodies, if you want to 'play'.  It looks like it even tells you how much time your stove is ON.  Hey, boys need toys.


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## jtakeman (Oct 8, 2011)

TX9000TS

http://www.luxproducts.com/thermostats/tx9000ts.php

Or TX9000RF

http://www.luxproducts.com/thermostats/tx9000rf.php

I wouldn't mind having the backlite screen myself. Nice to have in low light conditions!


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## VTrider (Oct 8, 2011)

I just gotta chime in here and put in a good word for the LUX 500E stat - inexpensive, good reviews, programmable and that all so cool swing temp adjustment - There are many great choices for a stat if you want to use one for a pellet stove and the 500E is a safe bet.  With that said, i'm running my new pellet stove install with a LUX 1500E stat for the past 3 weeks and couldn't be happier.  Picked it up at Lowe's for $29.00 (about $10.00 more than the 500E).  I was planning on getting the 500E based on great reviews.  I believe the main difference between the 500E and 1500E is the latter has a blue LCD display (not constant, only when interacted with), also you can individually program each weekend day (the 500E I believe you can set for just sat/sun).

I agree with one of the previous posts, that it's not rocket science, it's a timer with a binary 0/1 on or off request.  Probably one of the most overlooked factors in getting a stat for a pellet stove, is to first review your lifestyle and match the stat with that.


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## gerryger (Oct 8, 2011)

I just moved the stat upon your advice. I will monitor its performance and report back.


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## gerryger (Oct 8, 2011)

Well I moved that stat to new location with the same result.
1. temp in room was 67
2. set stat to 72
3. stove started
4. room temp reached 72
5. stove shut off
6. stove restarted 6 minutes later with room temp on stat still indicating 72
7. stove shut off again 7 minutes later with room temp on stat still indicating 72

Notes:
1. New stat location is not near the stove. 
2. Stove speed was set to low for the purpose of not heating the room too quickly.
3. Ceiling fan is on (low speed). Mixes the air really well in the room which is why I thought moving the stat wouldn't make a difference.
4. Current stat only has a .2 degree temp differential (which can't be changed). Hence the reason why the on/off action occurs at the same temperature.

Despite much advice on stat location I think a stat with a 3 degree swing differential (instead of .2) is more important and may suit my conditions.


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## flynfrfun (Oct 8, 2011)

I have the Lux 9000 model for my furnace and it is a nice thermostat.  Love the backlight and fairly easy programming and versatility.  If you wait around you might get a better deal on a Skytech 5301P...I got mine on ebay for $105.  It's nice to be able to move it around to find that perfect spot.  Or just leave it on the end table and adjust without having to get up out of your Lazyboy.  And mine seems to work thru walls pretty good.  I went upstairs and it was still linked up even though they say to stay w/in 20' with a clear shot.  But, I think I would have bought another Lux to run the pellet stove if I didn't get such a good deal on the Skytech.


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## begreen (Oct 8, 2011)

gerryger said:
			
		

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It's called a feedback loop. Stove comes on. Warm air hits thermostat after stove warms up. Stove shuts off. 

Rinse, Wash and Repeat. 

Honeywell is lame, but try setting the cycle rate to a low number like 1 or 2.


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## tjnamtiw (Oct 8, 2011)

I sense a trip to Lowes is in order for this morning!  Good luck.  Hang that LUX (either one) up there and be done with it.


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## gerryger (Oct 8, 2011)

on my way now


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## tjnamtiw (Oct 8, 2011)

gerryger said:
			
		

> on my way now



Make sure you let us know the results


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