# Small Farm Equipment Recommendations



## SpaceBus (Jan 9, 2019)

I'm in a strange place in my life right now, and I think it's time for some better equipment. I have a significant amount of money saved up, and I think now is the time to use it. I'm medically retired from the Army and my health is not getting any better, despite only being 27. We recently bought a house on 25 acres, with at least 22 of the acres being wooded. We plan on having a few Alpaca and not much else in the way of livestock. We aren't trying to run a for profit farm, this is just for us. I'm thinking it's time for a subcompact or compact tractor with several attachments and a UTV. 

There's a Kioti dealer within minutes of my place that has logging supplies as well, so I'm inclined to go with a Kioti tractor. My only experience is using an old Ford tractor with a front end loader, it was a manual transmission, and I prefer that. The only way I'd do an automatic is on a lawn tractor, and it would have to be an HST. Anyway, the CS sub compact series are all HST, which I don't like, but they are less expensive and light. My wife is paranoid a tractor will destroy our grass and top soil, because the big Ford I used several times a year absolutely did. This tractor was also usually used on waterlogged sandy clay soil, so it was no surprise to me, plus that tractor would be way too much for what we are managing now. Whatever we get must be capable of digging post holes, grinding stumps, moving snow, digging holes, and moving logs with the proper implements and attachments. 

I don't know much on what to shop for in a side by side UTV. I love riding quads, especially sport quads like Banshees, but that won't be useful for my situation. The Kioti UTVs have diesel engines, which I do really like. I'm just not sure if diesel is that important in a UTV. The UTV's listed by places like Tractor Supply have good specs, but I'd like to buy once and cry once. It would also be nice to have something with a decent top speed if the roads are too crappy for regular cars and trucks. 

I'm pretty handy around cars and stuff like that. Rebuilding an engine is within my capabilities as a person, but I haven't built a workshop yet, so I can't be cheap and buy stuff that needs to be fixed. Maybe once the shop is built I can buy a snowmobile and rebuild that. 

Hopefully I included all relevant data, but I know that's unlikely. Thank you for the advice!


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## johneh (Jan 9, 2019)

I have and use a Kabota . I know costs more but so well built
and you get what you pay for .
Here is what I have  sorry Canadian site US pricing will
be different
https://kubota.ca/en/products/power-equipment/tractors/bx80


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## SpaceBus (Jan 9, 2019)

johneh said:


> I have and use a Kabota . I know costs more but so well built
> and you get what you pay for .
> Here is what I have  sorry Canadian site US pricing will
> be different
> https://kubota.ca/en/products/power-equipment/tractors/bx80



I like the Kubota tractors, but they don't have any dealers within an hour, so I don't think that would work for me.


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## TreePointer (Jan 9, 2019)

Check out what equipment hobby farms are using in your area.  You might find that many prefer skid loaders for the livestock end of things.

When selecting equipment, start with the task you wish to accomplish, and work backwards.  Select the implement that's powerful/big enough to accomplish that task (especially in the time you have to do it).  Make sure the tractor has enough rear PTO hp (not engine hp) to run the equipment properly.  The same goes for front and rear hydraulic flow rates to operate your hydraulic equipment.

Front end loaders on tractors can safely lift much less weight than people think, so make sure to look at FEL weight limits.  The same goes for pulling ability.  In general, bigger/heavier is better.  Larger compact utility tractors (CUT) allow you to do much more than a subcompact (SCUT).

The first utility tractor I ran was also an old manual shift Ford.  I prefer modern HST for loader work and many other tasks, and it's not eve close.  Gear shifting is a PITA in small spaces and when precise handling is needed.


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## firefighterjake (Jan 9, 2019)

I can't speak much to the tractor situation only to say having seen sub-compact tractors in use they seem OK for very light use, but I know if I needed an actual tractor I would want to step up to something bigger (but that's just me).

As for the side-by-side . . . those diesel powered side by sides are OK for work use, but honestly if you were looking for a side by side that you could use for chores around the house and then afterwards your wife could hop in and you could hit the trails . . . a Polaris Ranger or similar side by side with a small body on back would be a nicer trail riding machine.

P.S. Side by sides and ATVs are not allowed for road use in Maine unless it is a posted ATV Access Road. That said, depending on where you are and just how rural it is, law enforcement may turn a blind eye if you are traveling at a prudent speed.


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## blades (Jan 9, 2019)

May I suggest an mini articulated loader, more lifting power than a tractor in the same hp class, some can be had with rear pto almost as manuverable as a skid steer with out the problem of extremly limited clearance underneath and limited veiw. by and large a tractor with a FEL takes a country mile to turn around.  The mini AL's are starting to catch on here . They are the favorite universal piece across the pond. They do cost more up front than a tractor, more like a skid steer but are capable of more than the standard CUT.


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## Bad LP (Jan 9, 2019)

I'm pretty happy with my 2013 John Deere 4720. Cab w/ heat and AC, air ride seat, self leveling loader, 72" brush cutter and a 84" Inverted snowblower.
I dumped all fluids and filters when I got it used (800ish hrs.) so I had a good base line. Machine was filthy in and out but I could see it wasn't beat up. After a good cleaning in and out there was only one little scratch on a fender and not a single scratch on the belly. Being a tier 3 diesel it doesn't need DEF like a tier 4 requires. I added a thru the hood stack to keep the carbon off the bottom. 
Land Pride brush cutter was also bought used. Whoever owned it prior had it beefed up and they did an outstanding job on it including repainting.
The Normand inverted snowblower was also bought used. Guy bought a fleet of Kabotas and blowers and it only snowed a couple of times and he quickly went belly up. Needless to say it was in near new condition for a decent price.
The forks are the only thing I bought new because used forks were close to the price of new and there were not many nearby.

I still want a Tajfun 45 logging winch but something else is always in the way, mainly I really need a large shed for storage with an open area to keep my attachments and another wood shed. 

Happy with all the purchases knowing it's all good quality equipment that should last me a very long time and I saved a bunch of money buying it used.


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## SpaceBus (Jan 9, 2019)

TreePointer said:


> Check out what equipment hobby farms are using in your area.  You might find that many prefer skid loaders for the livestock end of things.
> 
> When selecting equipment, start with the task you wish to accomplish, and work backwards.  Select the implement that's powerful/big enough to accomplish that task.  Make sure the tractor has enough rear PTO hp (not engine hp) to run the equipment properly.  The same goes for front and rear hydraulic flow rates to operate your hydraulic equipment.
> 
> ...



For me personally I find a tractor is easier to operate with a clutch pedal rather than the accelerator. I have also almost exclusively used manual transmissions in the majority of on the road and utility vehicles for most of my life. Still, I will consider to the HST for ease of use for my wife, she might prefer it. 

I feel like if I got a little SCUT, I will wish I had more tractor. The Kioti CK4010 seems like a good buy and combined with a good UTV I shouldn't have to worry about not being able to fit places. 

As far as implements I'm really focused on being able to dig nice post holes, dig into the side of a hill, split wood, move heavy things, clear snow, and spread sand/salt. I'll definitely need a good sized shed to hold the tractor and implements. I figure a post hole digger, backhoe, FEL, 3 pt splitter, spreader, and snowblower should be everything I would need for this property. 

I have also considered Skid Steer tractors, but they are very expensive. I'll research them further. 

Thanks for the advice


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## SpaceBus (Jan 9, 2019)

blades said:


> May I suggest an mini articulated loader, more lifting power than a tractor in the same hp class, some can be had with rear pto almost as manuverable as a skid steer with out the problem of extremly limited clearance underneath and limited veiw. by and large a tractor with a FEL takes a country mile to turn around.  The mini AL's are starting to catch on here . They are the favorite universal piece across the pond. They do cost more up front than a tractor, more like a skid steer but are capable of more than the standard CUT.



I will look into this as well. I had never considered something like that. Are they top heavy? I live on top of a hill, so part of the property is sloped, and I don't particularly want a rollover


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## SpaceBus (Jan 9, 2019)

I also meant to add that I will need a chipper shredder as well.


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## TreePointer (Jan 9, 2019)

If you have only one tractor, I highly recommend a towable splitter with it's own engine and hydraulics instead of a 3-point model.

1. Constantly swapping rear implements gets to be a real drag.

2. Without the additional cost of a PTO pump (and possibly a supplemental hydraulic fluid reservoir), the typically low hydraulic flow rate on SCUTs and many larger tractors makes for slow splitter cycle times.

3. 3-point splitters limit you to splitting only in places you can transport your tractor.  Towables go wherever a vehicle with a tow ball can get you (that wood score down the road or at a friend's place).

4. Available models/options and resell market for towables is much larger.


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## SpaceBus (Jan 9, 2019)

firefighterjake said:


> I can't speak much to the tractor situation only to say having seen sub-compact tractors in use they seem OK for very light use, but I know if I needed an actual tractor I would want to step up to something bigger (but that's just me).
> 
> As for the side-by-side . . . those diesel powered side by sides are OK for work use, but honestly if you were looking for a side by side that you could use for chores around the house and then afterwards your wife could hop in and you could hit the trails . . . a Polaris Ranger or similar side by side with a small body on back would be a nicer trail riding machine.
> 
> P.S. Side by sides and ATVs are not allowed for road use in Maine unless it is a posted ATV Access Road. That said, depending on where you are and just how rural it is, law enforcement may turn a blind eye if you are traveling at a prudent speed.



I've not seen anyone in downeast get in trouble for running any type of ATV on the hard ball roads, but they usually just cut across to someone else's property or a trail head. We have seen people getting around town in them when the weather is crap, which is another reason we are considering it. I figure the diesel SxS (Side by Side) wouldn't be as fun ripping around the trails, but the payload is nice if I have to go deep into my own woods and move firewood. We rented the top of the line Polaris RZR two seater when we passed through Gorham on the way to Machias over the summer. That thing was absolutely a blast, but it doesn't have much work use, and I don't think I want to spend that much on a toy right now. I used to have a Polaris Outlaw 500 IRS that was even more fun than a SxS, but not usable at all for work. In general, I find Polaris to cost more in initial cost and in maintenance/parts over Japanese brands, In Afghanistan we had Suzuki SxS's that were a riot, but they were modified with adjustable Fox Racing remote reservoir shocks, so that was awesome. 

I think you're right on the larger tractor, I feel like even the 26 HP Sub Compact would get annoying at some point. The 40 HP version of the next size chassis up should be able to run any equipment I would need. Plus it still weighs 2800 lbs so it shouldn't tear up the yard too bad.


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## SpaceBus (Jan 9, 2019)

TreePointer said:


> If you have only one tractor, I highly recommend a towable splitter with it's own engine and hydraulics instead of a 3-point model.
> 
> 1. Constantly swapping rear implements gets to be a real drag
> 
> ...




Thank you, I didn't consider those drawbacks, but that all makes a lot of sense and I think you are right. I would think a SxS would be able to pull a splitter. This sounds like a much better plan all the way around. I have zero hydro splitter experience, so I really appreciate your insight.


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## festerw (Jan 9, 2019)

Bobcat dealer nearby?  Maybe see if you can rent a Toolcat or 3650, not a tractor or utv but a cross between the two.


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## Bad LP (Jan 9, 2019)

Once you go hydro transmission you won't go back. I can move my JD in fractions of an inch a lot easier than the NH I have at work. That clutch pedal gets old fast. Real fast when working in snow removal and tight work.Can't wait to get out of the cab sometimes.

Both machines are the same HP but different frame sizes. Tires tear up turf, not the machine. I run the 4835 NH with turfs all the time over highly manicured lawn. I would not do the same with the JD.

A work SXS is not the same as a fun SXS. All the roads in my town up north are ATV approved including snowmobiles. My wife wants a SXS but I'm sticking with a sled. If she wants a SXS she can buy it.


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## SpaceBus (Jan 9, 2019)

Bad LP said:


> Once you go hydro transmission you won't go back. I can move my JD in fractions of an inch a lot easier than the NH I have at work. That clutch pedal gets old fast. Real fast when working in snow removal and tight work.Can't wait to get out of the cab sometimes.
> 
> Both machines are the same HP but different frame sizes. Tires tear up turf, not the machine. I run the 4835 NH with turfs all the time over highly manicured lawn. I would not do the same with the JD.
> 
> A work SXS is not the same as a fun SXS. All the roads in my town up north are ATV approved including snowmobiles. My wife wants a SXS but I'm sticking with a sled. If she wants a SXS she can buy it.



Yeah a Mule and a RZR are totally different. I'm actually looking at the Can Am Defender HD5 and surprising to me, the Coleman 550 UTV. As amazingly fun as the RZR's can be, I'm not going to buy one. Both have about the same payload and towing and similar price. I'm sure the Can Am is better built, but everyone I've seen on the reviews for the Coleman loves it and says the customer service is amazing, plus it comes with turn signals, windshield, tail lights, and a 3,500 lb winch. So far I can't beat that package, and I don't plan on abusing it like I would with a rented RZR 900.

Are "industrial" tread tires more gentle on grass than Ag tires? We don't have manicured turf, so It's not that serious. I'm thinking pretty seriously about the Kioti CK4010 with or without HST. The dealer is less than ten minutes away so service and parts should be easy. 

It will probably be a month or so before I pull the trigger, but I like to know exactly what I want before I go to the dealers.


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## VirginiaIron (Jan 9, 2019)

I have not heard anything bad about Kioti. Imo, their bull gear assemblies are kind of light, so is JD, and Kubota, this is why I purchased a Branson. But, I think service help for Branson is much fewer than it used to be. I have a 3520 and have not regretted it. Saved a bunch over the green and the more popular orange. Kubota does have a very nice loader/backhoe unit that in theory, I should have purchased.
Hydro transmission robs Hp from the engine. I tested a Mahindra, which I liked, but the loader would not lift the front end off the ground. It seems the hydro trans was competing or fighting the loader. If you get a loader, make sure the manufacturer doesn't use nylon/etc bushings at the pins. Dealers around here will generally let you test the tractor on the pavement. I tested a generous private owners tractor at his house, through the dealer, and decided on a larger model.
Diesel is the way to go; the fuel lasts longer, but they have their drawbacks. Gassers are good if you have an EPA unit and/or you don't use bad gas.
THANKS FOR SERVING- I stand 100% in support of our military 100%. Oorah...!, Hooah...!, & Hooyah...!


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## SpaceBus (Jan 9, 2019)

VirginiaIron said:


> I have not heard anything bad about Kioti. Imo, their bull gear assemblies are kind of light, so is JD, and Kubota, this is why I purchased a Branson. But, I think service help for Branson is much fewer than it used to be. I have a 3520 and have not regretted it. Saved a bunch over the green and the more popular orange. Kubota does have a very nice loader/backhoe unit that in theory, I should have purchased.
> Hydro transmission robs Hp from the engine. I tested a Mahindra, which I liked, but the loader would not lift the front end off the ground. It seems the hydro trans was competing or delighting the loader. If you get a loader, make sure the manufacturer doesn't use nylon/etc bushings at the pins. Dealers around here will generally let you test the tractor on the pavement. I tested a generous private owners tractor at his house, through the dealer, and decided on a larger model.
> Diesel is the way to go; the fuel lasts longer, but they have their drawbacks. Gassers are good if you have an EPA unit and/or you don't use bad gas.
> THANKS FOR SERVING- I stand 100% in support of our military 100%. Oorah...!, Hooah...!, & Hooyah...!



I don't know that I want to shell out for a diesel SxS. I've only seen two so far, a Mahindra that weighs more than the tractor I'm looking at because it's actually just a CJ-5 with a five slot grille. Kioti also sells two different Diesel UTV models, but they are quite spendy. I don't need anything that robust for ferrying around firewood, dragging a splitter, and other odds and ends. I've been to the local Kioti dealer for a pair of chains for my Husky, but I haven't driven any tractors yet. To be honest I was hoping to keep this pile of money I'm going to use on this equipment for a while longer, but sitting in the hospital after almost dying from my disability has changed my focus. I need to stop doing physical labor like I don't have any health issues and be honest with myself. 

I appreciate your thanks!


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## SpaceBus (Jan 9, 2019)

I've noticed the Dirty Hand Tools splitters seem popular here. The price is fair and the stats look good on the 30 and 35 ton models. Both seem like a good ATV or UTV could easily pull one around my property. Any reason not to get one?


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## VirginiaIron (Jan 9, 2019)

SpaceBus said:


> I've noticed the Dirty Hand Tools splitters seem popular here. The price is fair and the stats look good on the 30 and 35 ton models. Both seem like a good ATV or UTV could easily pull one around my property. Any reason not to get one?


I liked them, and they were my manufacturer of choice due to price and design quality, but when I saw the Champion 27T for 999, with a 10 % off, 1 year $0 finance and 1year return, AT HOME DEPOT......? I couldn't resist... I do think the Champion 27T is more refined and better built than the comparable DH unit.


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## AlbergSteve (Jan 9, 2019)

We have two acres that we're turning in to a small hobby farm and we're using a subcompact tractor that suits almost perfectly. We needed something small because it's going to be planted pretty intesively. However, there have been a couple of times when I could have used a slightly larger tractor. I would say on 25 acres with a wood lot, a subcompact (under 30HP) would probably be too small.

Do your research. When you decide on the size of tractor, research each brand offering online for problems and reviews. Having the dealer a few minutes away might be convenient if you're there every week, but an hour away isn't that far if you're only there every couple of years. Like @johneh said above, you get what you pay for.


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## SpaceBus (Jan 10, 2019)

AlbergSteve said:


> We have two acres that we're turning in to a small hobby farm and we're using a subcompact tractor that suits almost perfectly. We needed something small because it's going to be planted pretty intesively. However, there have been a couple of times when I could have used a slightly larger tractor. I would say on 25 acres with a wood lot, a subcompact (under 30HP) would probably be too small.
> 
> Do your research. When you decide on the size of tractor, research each brand offering online for problems and reviews. Having the dealer a few minutes away might be convenient if you're there every week, but an hour away isn't that far if you're only there every couple of years. Like @johneh said above, you get what you pay for.



I'll see what dealers are in Ellsworth and Calais, the next closest towns with infrastructure. I'm pretty sure I saw Kubota and Mahindra last time I was in either town. I'm really not interested in big green due to the maintenance lock outs.


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## SpaceBus (Jan 10, 2019)

Well, I guess it's a used tractor if I can find one or a Kioti for my area. Both options are ok with me, the Kioti tractors seem well liked. The next closest tractor dealers I can find are two hours away or more, and I'm just not trying to deal with that if something happens. Especially being disabled with dogs I don't want to have to be gone a lot.


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## maple1 (Jan 10, 2019)

Just from what I have seen or heard from relatives who have had them - I would likely drive past Kioti & go the hour to Kubota.

A Ranger or Defender is likely a safe bet for a SxS - anyone I knew or heard about who had a diesel SxS wasn't exactly in love with them.


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## SpaceBus (Jan 10, 2019)

maple1 said:


> Just from what I have seen or heard from relatives who have had them - I would likely drive past Kioti & go the hour to Kubota.
> 
> A Ranger or Defender is likely a safe bet for a SxS - anyone I knew or heard about who had a diesel SxS wasn't exactly in love with them.




I feel you, and I do like Kubota and Mahindra, but it's just too far. If it ever broke down in the winter and repairs outside of my capability, I would have to drag it two hours to Bangor through most likely treacherous road conditions. I had to ride to the Emergency room here in Bangor the other night and it took 2.5 hours because of road conditions.


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## blades (Jan 10, 2019)

SpaceBus said:


> I will look into this as well. I had never considered something like that. Are they top heavy? I live on top of a hill, so part of the property is sloped, and I don't particularly want a rollover


no more so than a tractor or SS  anything can be rolled if you are not paying attention to what you are doing and the terrain. wet slopes, loose gravel ,sand, grassy slopes, soft ground any of these can create a  problem very quickly.
last year I had to go rescue my friend with his Kubota fwd, hard packed clay but it was wet  in the first 6 ", he was sliding into the creek on a down slope   even with bucket and FEL  he could stop slide but the minute he lifted one or the other to try and push or pull he started sliding again.


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## SpaceBus (Jan 10, 2019)

Man, the Can Am Defender HD5 gets really expensive really fast when doors and a windshield are added on. I'm exploring the HiSun units that are carried by TSC and some independent dealers. I know they are Chinese, but that doesn't necessarily mean they are bad, and they come with some really great options out of the box. I like the Honda Pioneers, but they only have a rear rack, not a box.


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## maple1 (Jan 10, 2019)

SpaceBus said:


> Man, the Can Am Defender HD5 gets really expensive really fast when doors and a windshield are added on. I'm exploring the HiSun units that are carried by TSC and some independent dealers. I know they are Chinese, but that doesn't necessarily mean they are bad, and they come with some really great options out of the box. I like the Honda Pioneers, but they only have a rear rack, not a box.



Actually, if I was going shopping for a SxS, I think the Pioneer would be one of my first looks. Their fold down back seating could be pretty handy. And I'm kind of a Honda guy. 

But I thought they all had boxes? Or maybe the smallest 500 doesn't?

I would seriously stay away from off brand Chinese ones. There was a brand being sold around here a few years ago. Some guys got some. Some had engine problems. Like, blowing up. Then support & the company all together disappeared so they were completely out of luck. Power Max maybe?


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## SpaceBus (Jan 10, 2019)

This seems like a pretty decent machine that will do exactly what I want. Even the 550 model, branded a Coleman when carried by TSC, seems like a good buy. 

https://dirtwheelsmag.com/utv-test-hisun-sector-750/


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## johneh (Jan 10, 2019)

I don't know about where you live but my Dealer 
picks up and delivers my Kabota for service and returns 
it part of the warranty and I understand that they do the same after warranty


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## SpaceBus (Jan 10, 2019)

maple1 said:


> Actually, if I was going shopping for a SxS, I think the Pioneer would be one of my first looks. Their fold down back seating could be pretty handy. And I'm kind of a Honda guy.
> 
> But I thought they all had boxes? Or maybe the smallest 500 doesn't?
> 
> I would seriously stay away from off brand Chinese ones. There was a brand being sold around here a few years ago. Some guys got some. Some had engine problems. Like, blowing up. Then support & the company all together disappeared so they were completely out of luck. Power Max maybe?



Yeah, the 500 doesn't offer a real bed. The fold down rear seats on the higher end models, but quite expensive. Maybe it is worth it to cry once. I do like Honda. My first two motorcycles were Hondas, unusual ones at that. My first road bike was a 80 Honda CX500 Custom and I replaced it with an 04 VFR 800. As far as Japanese manufacturers, it's hard to beat Honda and Yamaha. I had a Polaris Outlaw sport ATV a while back, and aside from high priced parts, I did enjoy it, but I picked it specifically for the independent rear suspension for more technical stuff. I'll have to see if there's a Honda dealer anywhere near me. This is the one downside to living in the middle of nowhere.


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## SpaceBus (Jan 10, 2019)

Honestly with the optional cargo tray the Pioneer 500 might be just fine for my needs. The 700 is nice, but to get the slick transmission you have to go with the Deluxe. The 500 gets the nice trans standard. Still, the price climbs quickly when adding comfort items pretty much necessary for Maine winters.


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## festerw (Jan 10, 2019)

SpaceBus said:


> Man, the Can Am Defender HD5 gets really expensive really fast when doors and a windshield are added on. I'm exploring the HiSun units that are carried by TSC and some independent dealers. I know they are Chinese, but that doesn't necessarily mean they are bad, and they come with some really great options out of the box. I like the Honda Pioneers, but they only have a rear rack, not a box.



I shopped for one for work 2 years ago and pretty much what I found was when they're similarly equipped they're all right around the same price.  I was shopping between Kubota, Deere, Can Am, Polaris, Bobcat, Gravely, Cushman, and Toro.  

We ended up with a Kubota RTV-1100 because it had all the "extras" included at the factory.  Cab/heat/AC were all there where as the other brands that was all dealer added options.

We've also found that it was prewired for everything so we've added F/R work lights for much cheaper than the option package at purchase.


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## SpaceBus (Jan 10, 2019)

The more I read about the Honda Pioneer 500, the more it seems like the perfect little UTV for our property. Our trees are really tightly packed together since nobody has maintained the forest in over 40 years. The little P500 is like if a Miata were a UTV, which is high praise from me, I love Miatas. I think between the P500 and a 30-40 HP CUT, with the right implements, we would be set. The P500 looks like it would be a riot on some tight trails after we cut them into the woods around the house. Plus, there are a ton of maintained trails around where we live anyway. I'm still stuck here in the hospital, so I'm just kind of reading up on this stuff out of boredom.


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## wilsoncm1 (Jan 10, 2019)

Buy a larger tractor than you think you'll ever need.  We looked around at used 4x4 tractors in our area and ended up buying a new Massey Ferguson 1734e from a local dealer because the price was too close to used to pass up.  It's the economy version, so no fancy transmission or cab.  Just a basic tractor.  No DEF, but it does have a particulate filter and renew cycle that's a pain if you don't work the tractor on a regular basis.  Comes with loader.

We run a Wallenstien BX52s chipper with it.  Eats everything you can fit down the throat without a snag.


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## bholler (Jan 10, 2019)

SpaceBus said:


> The more I read about the Honda Pioneer 500, the more it seems like the perfect little UTV for our property. Our trees are really tightly packed together since nobody has maintained the forest in over 40 years. The little P500 is like if a Miata were a UTV, which is high praise from me, I love Miatas. I think between the P500 and a 30-40 HP CUT, with the right implements, we would be set. The P500 looks like it would be a riot on some tight trails after we cut them into the woods around the house. Plus, there are a ton of maintained trails around where we live anyway. I'm still stuck here in the hospital, so I'm just kind of reading up on this stuff out of boredom.


Why not consider a small beater truck instead of a utv?  They cost much less haul allot more and can be driven on the road.  Especially if you have to cut trails anyway just cut them slightly larger.


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## SpaceBus (Jan 10, 2019)

bholler said:


> Why not consider a small beater truck instead of a utv?  They cost much less haul allot more and can be driven on the road.  Especially if you have to cut trails anyway just cut them slightly larger.



We are trying to cut as few trees as possible, but a beater truck/SUV/Hatchback is going to happen regardless. My wife's car is in my Avatar, and she doesn't want to beat it up every winter.


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## bholler (Jan 10, 2019)

SpaceBus said:


> We are trying to cut as few trees as possible, but a beater truck/SUV/Hatchback is going to happen regardless. My wife's car is in my Avatar, and she doesn't want to beat it up every winter.


You won't have to take down many more trees for something like a Ford ranger or Tacoma and they give you allot more utility.


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## maple1 (Jan 10, 2019)

If I was going to use a SxS for wooding, to replace my ATV, it definitely wouldn't be a truck. A small SxS like a 500 Pioneer isn't a lot larger and it will go through and much deeper into the woods than a truck.  

Also depends what your woods is like too though.


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## bholler (Jan 10, 2019)

maple1 said:


> If I was going to use a SxS for wooding, to replace my ATV, it definitely wouldn't be a truck. A small SxS like a 500 Pioneer isn't a lot larger and it will go through and much deeper into the woods than a truck.
> 
> Also depends what your woods is like too though.


Yes but it will take at least 3 trips to do the same work it will cost more and you can't drive it on the road.   I don't care if he wants to buy a utv that is up to him I just though I would throw out another option.  I would personally never even consider a utv.


----------



## SpaceBus (Jan 10, 2019)

bholler said:


> You won't have to take down many more trees for something like a Ford ranger or Tacoma and they give you allot more utility.


Our trees are far too tight for even a small pickup.


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## thewoodlands (Jan 10, 2019)

SpaceBus said:


> I'm in a strange place in my life right now, and I think it's time for some better equipment. I have a significant amount of money saved up, and I think now is the time to use it. I'm medically retired from the Army and my health is not getting any better, despite only being 27. We recently bought a house on 25 acres, with at least 22 of the acres being wooded. We plan on having a few Alpaca and not much else in the way of livestock. We aren't trying to run a for profit farm, this is just for us. I'm thinking it's time for a subcompact or compact tractor with several attachments and a UTV.
> 
> There's a Kioti dealer within minutes of my place that has logging supplies as well, so I'm inclined to go with a Kioti tractor. My only experience is using an old Ford tractor with a front end loader, it was a manual transmission, and I prefer that. The only way I'd do an automatic is on a lawn tractor, and it would have to be an HST. Anyway, the CS sub compact series are all HST, which I don't like, but they are less expensive and light. My wife is paranoid a tractor will destroy our grass and top soil, because the big Ford I used several times a year absolutely did. This tractor was also usually used on waterlogged sandy clay soil, so it was no surprise to me, plus that tractor would be way too much for what we are managing now. Whatever we get must be capable of digging post holes, grinding stumps, moving snow, digging holes, and moving logs with the proper implements and attachments.
> 
> ...


When we bought the land that we get our firewood from (136 acres) we bought the Rhino Yamaha 450 Special Edition. It soon will have 7000 miles on it and so far we haven't had any problems with it except on July 4 2018 the original battery finally bit the dust. They don't make the Rhino any longer, I think it's called the Viking, if we had to buy another ATV or UTV it would be another Yamaha just because we haven't had any problems.

We bought the Rhino in 2007 and its been kept in the garage since day one.

In 2016 we bought a Mahindra 4540 (41 hp) tractor with a backhoe,pallet forks,plow and the FEL. So far we have just over 700 hours on the 4540 without any problems. Just from reading on the tractor forum, it seems like all the tractor manufacturers have some problems withy certain models. 

Happy Hunting.


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## SpaceBus (Jan 10, 2019)

thewoodlands said:


> When we bought the land that we get our firewood from (136 acres) we bought the Rhino Yamaha 450 Special Edition. It soon will have 7000 miles on it and so far we haven't had any problems with it except on July 4 2018 the original battery finally bit the dust. They don't make the Rhino any longer, I think it's called the Viking, if we had to buy another ATV or UTV it would be another Yamaha just because we haven't had any problems.
> 
> We bought the Rhino in 2007 and its been kept in the garage since day one.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the tips, that's basically the same size tractor as I was thinking about. Although you have much more land than we do! We considered VT, but we couldn't find anything in our price range. I considered the Viking, but the Honda is less expensive with more payload capability, and it's only 50" wide. I do like Yamaha quite a bit, especially their engines, but Honda is also a favorite. Do you ever wish you had the post hole digger? That's actually one of the main reasons I want a tractor, so I can dig holes! This soil here is hell to dig through by hand and I'm not up to that kind of labor anymore. Honestly we were thinking about getting land like you have, but we decided our health will not allow for that much. 25 acres is probably our comfortable max.


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## AlbergSteve (Jan 11, 2019)

Not sure what your soil is like but augering or digging holes for posts ( unless it's just a few) is a pita, and a lot of work. Hire someone with a post pounder, or even better, someone with an excavator set up for driving posts with a hoe-pack. We drove 98, 10' posts three feet in to the ground in 6 1/2 hours.


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## wilsoncm1 (Jan 11, 2019)

Would never work here.  I always find boulders under every spot I want to put a fence post ><


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## SpaceBus (Jan 11, 2019)

AlbergSteve said:


> Not sure what your soil is like but augering or digging holes for posts ( unless it's just a few) is a pita, and a lot of work. Hire someone with a post pounder, or even better, someone with an excavator set up for driving posts with a hoe-pack. We drove 98, 10' posts three feet in to the ground in 6 1/2 hours.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I assume this is a type of attachment you can only use with an excavator type vehicle. Perhaps I will rent one when needed. The soil here is crap and there is a lot of rock under it, so an Auger might not even help in the long run.


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## firefighterjake (Jan 11, 2019)

Bad LP said:


> Once you go hydro transmission you won't go back. I can move my JD in fractions of an inch a lot easier than the NH I have at work. That clutch pedal gets old fast. Real fast when working in snow removal and tight work.Can't wait to get out of the cab sometimes.
> 
> Both machines are the same HP but different frame sizes. Tires tear up turf, not the machine. I run the 4835 NH with turfs all the time over highly manicured lawn. I would not do the same with the JD.
> 
> A work SXS is not the same as a fun SXS. All the roads in my town up north are ATV approved including snowmobiles. My wife wants a SXS but I'm sticking with a sled. If she wants a SXS she can buy it.



I remember the first time I rode up in The County with a buddy from Washburn and we came to Van Buren . . . or maybe it was Fort Kent . . . I forget . . . in any case, he turned off the trail and started riding down Main Street. 

At the time ATVs down my way were pretty much restricted to trails as ATV Access Routes were not being used . . . it was a bit surreal for me to be driving down Main Street and pass a police officer and have them just pass by me without them flipping on the blue lights.

Then again . . . The County has always been a special place. I need to get back up there this Summer for a ride.


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## firefighterjake (Jan 11, 2019)

SpaceBus said:


> Yeah a Mule and a RZR are totally different. I'm actually looking at the Can Am Defender HD5 and surprising to me, the Coleman 550 UTV. As amazingly fun as the RZR's can be, I'm not going to buy one. Both have about the same payload and towing and similar price. I'm sure the Can Am is better built, but everyone I've seen on the reviews for the Coleman loves it and says the customer service is amazing, plus it comes with turn signals, windshield, tail lights, and a 3,500 lb winch. So far I can't beat that package, and I don't plan on abusing it like I would with a rented RZR 900.
> 
> Are "industrial" tread tires more gentle on grass than Ag tires? We don't have manicured turf, so It's not that serious. I'm thinking pretty seriously about the Kioti CK4010 with or without HST. The dealer is less than ten minutes away so service and parts should be easy.
> 
> It will probably be a month or so before I pull the trigger, but I like to know exactly what I want before I go to the dealers.



Razors = for fun and fast trail riding with you and a loved one (or the whole family, depending on the size)

Ranger (or similar UTV) = for trail riding after the work day is completed

I honestly use my Yamaha Kodiak more for work than I do play . . . which is funny since I am the President of the local ATV Club.


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## firefighterjake (Jan 11, 2019)

maple1 said:


> Just from what I have seen or heard from relatives who have had them - I would likely drive past Kioti & go the hour to Kubota.
> 
> A Ranger or Defender is likely a safe bet for a SxS - anyone I knew or heard about who had a diesel SxS wasn't exactly in love with them.



We have a Kubota side by side at work . . . now granted it's loaded up with extinguishers, forestry pump, small tank, etc. . . . but the thing is a dog. I'm short and fat and I'm pretty sure I can walk almost as fast as this thing can. The guys had a forest fire last year and they had to push the machine up hill since it was so under-powered.

Now Kubota tractors . . . I like them a lot. Father had one (not sure of the make and model except that it wasn't a compact or subcompact or one of the larger ones) . . . drove like a dream with virtually no repairs ever needed. Great machine for twitching out wood with the log winch attachment.


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## thewoodlands (Jan 11, 2019)

SpaceBus said:


> Thanks for the tips, that's basically the same size tractor as I was thinking about. Although you have much more land than we do! We considered VT, but we couldn't find anything in our price range. I considered the Viking, but the Honda is less expensive with more payload capability, and it's only 50" wide. I do like Yamaha quite a bit, especially their engines, but Honda is also a favorite. Do you ever wish you had the post hole digger? That's actually one of the main reasons I want a tractor, so I can dig holes! This soil here is hell to dig through by hand and I'm not up to that kind of labor anymore. Honestly we were thinking about getting land like you have, but we decided our health will not allow for that much. 25 acres is probably our comfortable max.


If both our lots weren't all trees then a post hole attachment would be nice for certain projects, I do still have the human operated P.H.D.


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## AlbergSteve (Jan 11, 2019)

SpaceBus said:


> I assume this is a type of attachment you can only use with an excavator type vehicle. Perhaps I will rent one when needed. The soil here is crap and there is a lot of rock under it, so an Auger might not even help in the long run.


It's a standard plate packer for that machine with a six inch ring welded to the forward edge of the plate. Fencing guys will have a dedicated one for their machine, excavator guys will some times tack weld a temporary ring to an existing packer for a one off job. We've got rocky soil here as well, the post just pushes them out of the way.


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## jaoneill (Jan 12, 2019)

My $.02; as generally agreed above a 40ish hp tractor is still small enough to be "handy" but should do all you need it to do comfortably. You will find a side x side UTV invaluable. FWIW, I have a basic 16hp sidexside Simplicity Trail Cruiser that has served me well for 10 years or so, similar in size and capacities to a Ranger, will carry about 1/4 cord of wood +/-. My brother, on an adjoining farm, has a Kabuta that is also very similar size and weight wise. Either of these machines are quite adequate except for one issue that my bro doesn't seem to mind, but to me is critical. When the ground is the least bit soft they will leave a muddy rutty mess. It is probably due primarily to tire size. Both of these machines (and most on the market today) come from the factory with 22.5x8" to 10" wide tires. If I were you, I would look for a machine that has enough clearance to utilize 12" to 14" wide rubber. I also have a JD Gator 6x4 that has 25x13" wide rubber. Where it's a bit soft, either of the smaller machines require locking in the 4 wheel drive, and will make a muddy, rutty mess of things, the gator will barely leave a tread mark.


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## SpaceBus (Jan 12, 2019)

jaoneill said:


> My $.02; as generally agreed above a 40ish hp tractor is still small enough to be "handy" but should do all you need it to do comfortably. You will find a side x side UTV invaluable. FWIW, I have a basic 16hp sidexside Simplicity Trail Cruiser that has served me well for 10 years or so, similar in size and capacities to a Ranger, will carry about 1/4 cord of wood +/-. My brother, on an adjoining farm, has a Kabuta that is also very similar size and weight wise. Either of these machines are quite adequate except for one issue that my bro doesn't seem to mind, but to me is critical. When the ground is the least bit soft they will leave a muddy rutty mess. It is probably due primarily to tire size. Both of these machines (and most on the market today) come from the factory with 22.5x8" to 10" wide tires. If I were you, I would look for a machine that has enough clearance to utilize 12" to 14" wide rubber. I also have a JD Gator 6x4 that has 25x13" wide rubber. Where it's a bit soft, either of the smaller machines require locking in the 4 wheel drive, and will make a muddy, rutty mess of things, the gator will barely leave a tread mark.



I've got my eye on the Honda Pioneer 500 with a cargo tray and some doors, roof, etc. They start at $9 grand without a windshield or roof with just a luggage rack, but it can carry 450 lbs and tow 1000 lbs. The narrow 50" width will be awesome in our tight trees.


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## jaoneill (Jan 12, 2019)

SpaceBus said:


> I've got my eye on the Honda Pioneer 500 with a cargo tray and some doors, roof, etc. They start at $9 grand without a windshield or roof with just a luggage rack, but it can carry 450 lbs and tow 1000 lbs. The narrow 50" width will be awesome in our tight trees.


Nifty machine but, as I noted above, the tire size is a limiting factor spring and fall on soft ground unless you don't care about rutting things up.


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## SpaceBus (Jan 12, 2019)

jaoneill said:


> Nifty machine but, as I noted above, the tire size is a limiting factor spring and fall on soft ground unless you don't care about rutting things up.



I should have said so, but it has 24x12 from the factory, so they shouldn't destroy the grass. We don't have soft turf or anything like that, just wild grass.


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## jaoneill (Jan 12, 2019)

SpaceBus said:


> I should have said so, but it has 24x12 from the factory, so they shouldn't destroy the grass. We don't have soft turf or anything like that, just wild grass.


On line specs indicate 24x8 fronts, 24x10 rears; your dealer probably ordered them with the wider tires. My concern here is not so much with grassy areas but woods trails where it eventually ends up being just dirt. Since most of our soils contain a fair amount of clay these trails can get muddy in a hurry.


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## salecker (Jan 12, 2019)

Get one of these,sell for $6000 canadien and can be driven on the street.I can haul 1/3 cord spruce.I was on a trip with 15 4 wheelers and 7 side bu sides and had no trouble keeping up and going through mud and bush with them.
It was a rainy day i was dry listening to my cd's.I run ATV tiresn it for the bush and it also came with ATV tracks which bolt right on.
 I bought mine with ATV tires,street tires and the tracks for $4000 candaien.


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## SpaceBus (Jan 12, 2019)

salecker said:


> Get one of these,sell for $6000 canadien and can be driven on the street.I can haul 1/3 cord spruce.I was on a trip with 15 4 wheelers and 7 side bu sides and had no trouble keeping up and going through mud and bush with them.
> It was a rainy day i was dry listening to my cd's.I run ATV tiresn it for the bush and it also came with ATV tracks which bolt right on.
> I bought mine with ATV tires,street tires and the tracks for $4000 candaien.
> 
> ...



I totally forgot about Kei Trucks! That's a smart idea. I'm not too familiar with the way Maine vehicle registration works, so I would have to look into that more. Back in NC it's pretty easy if it's 1995 or older (OBD 1). 



jaoneill said:


> On line specs indicate 24x8 fronts, 24x10 rears; your dealer probably ordered them with the wider tires. My concern here is not so much with grassy areas but woods trails where it eventually ends up being just dirt. Since most of our soils contain a fair amount of clay these trails can get muddy in a hurry.



I'll have to research this a little deeper apparently. I've seen on forums guys are running 26" tall tires. Ideally I'd like to keep the overall narrow width for easier navigation, but yeah, that will destroy the soil. I guess I've got a lot more reading to do. Thanks for the heads up.


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## jaoneill (Jan 12, 2019)

salecker said:


> Get one of these,sell for $6000 canadien and can be driven on the street.I can haul 1/3 cord spruce.I was on a trip with 15 4 wheelers and 7 side bu sides and had no trouble keeping up and going through mud and bush with them.
> It was a rainy day i was dry listening to my cd's.I run ATV tiresn it for the bush and it also came with ATV tracks which bolt right on.
> I bought mine with ATV tires,street tires and the tracks for $4000 candaien.
> 
> ...


There was a shop here locally that sold those a while back (used), plain stock units small tires etc, some with dump beds, not street legal here in ny due to lack of emission crap, steering wheels were on the right, but only $2000-$2,500....


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## jaoneill (Jan 12, 2019)

SpaceBus said:


> I totally forgot about Kei Trucks! That's a smart idea. I'm not too familiar with the way Maine vehicle registration works, so I would have to look into that more. Back in NC it's pretty easy if it's 1995 or older (OBD 1).
> 
> 
> 
> I'll have to research this a little deeper apparently. I've seen on forums guys are running 26" tall tires. Ideally I'd like to keep the overall narrow width for easier navigation, but yeah, that will destroy the soil. I guess I've got a lot more reading to do. Thanks for the heads up.


Tall helps but combined with width makes all the difference. Look at the tires on the gator as compared to the ones on a pic of the Pioneer. (PS - fronts are 22.5x10, rears are 25.5x13)


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## Snagdaddy (Jan 13, 2019)

Whatever your health challenge is, there are natural food based solutions to restore your health.  Here are some links to get you started.

https://www.naturalnews.com

http://brightsideben.com/

This is a video site with health information and some of the news sites deplatformed from youtube
https://www.brighteon.com/


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## Snagdaddy (Jan 13, 2019)

I bought pallet forks off ebay years ago and really like them.  They attach to any tractor bucket.  They are great for moving brush piles and lifting logs for cutting and transport.  Just type "pallet forks" into ebay and pick from a long list most are around 100 dollars.


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## SpaceBus (Jan 13, 2019)

Snagdaddy said:


> Whatever your health challenge is, there are natural food based solutions to restore your health.  Here are some links to get you started.
> 
> https://www.naturalnews.com
> 
> ...



I do strongly agree with what you are saying, but Western medicine absolutely saved my life. For the last several years my wife and I have been cleaning up our diet and getting our bodies right, but there's only so much you can do. I was, and still am being, studied by the National Institute of Health, and they still couldn't fix me. Something has altered my body's chemistry to tag my blood platelets for destruction.


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## Montanalocal (Jan 13, 2019)

Snagdaddy said:


> Whatever your health challenge is, there are natural food based solutions to restore your health.  Here are some links to get you started.
> 
> https://www.naturalnews.com
> 
> ...




The best health information is at Life Extension Foundation.  

https://www.lifeextension.com


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## Mike.O (Jan 14, 2019)

GF's father owns an excavation company. When I was shopping, said stay away from Kioti. Pumps and hydraulics are of much less quality than others.... Kubota is what I wound up going with. Kubota and Deere are the king of the compact tractor world. Mahindra is great also. You get what ya pay for.

These tractors don't really need to go to a shop. If you can do the fluid/filter service and some basics, the concern of having to take it in to a shop once in a ten year span is insignificant. It's only 2 hours, not even more than a half a day job. To sacrifice a few 4 hour round trips vs. 20 years of happy tractoring is well worth it.  IMO, that is a very poor reason for settling on a brand because the dealer is close. Bought mine new from over 1000 miles away. 

A tractor is one of the best tools you can have. The things you can do are endless. 

On a side note, I'm also 27. From our common interest in wood stoves, tractors and land, it's cool to see other younger people into that stuff.


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## Bad LP (Jan 14, 2019)

Mike.O said:


> GF's father owns an excavation company. When I was shopping, said stay away from Kioti. Pumps and hydraulics are of much less quality than others.... Kubota is what I wound up going with. Kubota and Deere are the king of the compact tractor world. Mahindra is great also. You get what ya pay for.
> 
> These tractors don't really need to go to a shop. If you can do the fluid/filter service and some basics, the concern of having to take it in to a shop once in a ten year span is insignificant. It's only 2 hours, not even more than a half a day job. To sacrifice a few 4 hour round trips vs. 20 years of happy tractoring is well worth it.  IMO, that is a very poor reason for settling on a brand because the dealer is close. Bought mine new from over 1000 miles away.
> 
> ...



A lot of the newer stuff is computer controlled and very difficult to work on without the software. Not saying it can't be done it's just difficult.


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## SpaceBus (Jan 14, 2019)

Mike.O said:


> GF's father owns an excavation company. When I was shopping, said stay away from Kioti. Pumps and hydraulics are of much less quality than others.... Kubota is what I wound up going with. Kubota and Deere are the king of the compact tractor world. Mahindra is great also. You get what ya pay for.
> 
> These tractors don't really need to go to a shop. If you can do the fluid/filter service and some basics, the concern of having to take it in to a shop once in a ten year span is insignificant. It's only 2 hours, not even more than a half a day job. To sacrifice a few 4 hour round trips vs. 20 years of happy tractoring is well worth it.  IMO, that is a very poor reason for settling on a brand because the dealer is close. Bought mine new from over 1000 miles away.
> 
> ...




Kubota and Kioti are my short list, but leaning towards the Kioti. I'm sure the Kubota is superior, but I'm disabled and I'll be relying on this tractor. Having a dealer within ten minutes is a huge bonus. If I lived nearer to a Kubota dealer, it would be a different story. After having to drive over two hours to the emergency room to avoid dying, I have a new appreciation for drive times.


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## SpaceBus (Jan 14, 2019)

Bad LP said:


> A lot of the newer stuff is computer controlled and very difficult to work on without the software. Not saying it can't be done it's just difficult.



This is why I won't do a Deere. They have locked the owner out of just about everything now.


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## jaoneill (Jan 14, 2019)

SpaceBus said:


> Kubota and Kioti are my short list, but leaning towards the Kioti. I'm sure the Kubota is superior, but I'm disabled and I'll be relying on this tractor. Having a dealer within ten minutes is a huge bonus. If I lived nearer to a Kubota dealer, it would be a different story. After having to drive over two hours to the emergency room to avoid dying, I have a new appreciation for drive times.


I hadn't heard about Kioti having hydraulic issues but we have a Mahindra with just under two thousand hours on the clock that is on its third hydraulic pump and spun a rod bearing last year. Partial rebuild set us back almost $5k in parts; we rebuilt a Ford with eight thousand hours on it the year before and the complete parts kit was $2K.


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## SpaceBus (Jan 14, 2019)

If I could do the work myself, then I wouldn't be so partial to the Kioti tractors. Originally my plan was to retire out of the Army after 20 years and open my own repair shop, but that's not happening now. My main hobby was racing and working on cars, now it's going to be driving a tractor around my property. It could be much worse!


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## TreePointer (Jan 14, 2019)

SpaceBus said:


> My main hobby was racing and *working on cars*....



If you worked on cars, you should have most of the tools and a lot of the knowledge that you need for a tractor.  I will add that frequently using tractor implements (and ground engaging implements in particular) means learning how to weld or knowing a welder that has time for your repairs.  Welders have been in short supply since the natural gas boom occurred in our region over a decade ago, so I learned to do my own welding.  Just a heads up on a possible need down the road.


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## SpaceBus (Jan 14, 2019)

TreePointer said:


> If you worked on cars, you should have most of the tools and a lot of the knowledge that you need for a tractor.  I will add that frequently using tractor implements (and ground engaging implements in particular) means learning how to weld or knowing a welder that has time for your repairs.  Welders have been in short supply since the natural gas boom occurred in our region over a decade ago, so I learned to do my own welding.  Just a heads up on a possible need down the road.



Well, I don't really have many tools, because the military had a great service called the Skill Shop. All I had to do was show up with my parts and pay $8/hr and the shop provided a lift and tools, first come first serve of course. I do plan on building up my own set of tools, but my disability keeps me from doing too much hard labor. I do miss slinging wrenches in my off time though.


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## Kiotick4010 (Jan 14, 2019)

I traded in my John Deere skid steer for a Kioti CK 4010 SE with a hydrostatic transmission.  It's a 40 hp tractor with a cab and front mounted snowblower and a box blade on the rear.  Also has a loader for use in the summer.

 It’s only a year old, with a little under 100 hours, but I am pleased with it so far.  No real issues, and the dealer has been great, and is five minutes from the house.

I considered the Deere and Kubota, but the Deere was a smaller, less capable tractor, at a higher price, and the Kubota dealer was 120 miles away and out of business (temporarily) became of a divorce.

For a small tractor, the hat is best if you are considering a snowblower or for loader work.  It’s also great in confined areas and around the yard.

I would buy another Kioti tractor in a heartbeat.

Just remember that a compact tractor isn’t a piece of construction equipment.  In retrospect, I wish I had kept my skid steer for heavy dirt work and fork work.

I also have a sxs, a Kawasaki Teryx 800, that we use around the house and for trail riding.  The dump bed is useful, but the differential doesn’t have a turf mode, so it tears up the yard.

I will probably go with the Polaris Ranger when the time comes.

Honda side by sides don’t seem to be popular around here, for some reason.


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## SpaceBus (Jan 14, 2019)

Kiotick4010 said:


> I traded in my John Deere skid steer for a Kioti CK 4010 SE with a hydrostatic transmission.  It's a 40 hp tractor with a cab and front mounted snowblower and a box blade on the rear.  Also has a loader for use in the summer.
> 
> It’s only a year old, with a little under 100 hours, but I am pleased with it so far.  No real issues, and the dealer has been great, and is five minutes from the house.
> 
> ...



Thank you for sharing your experience. Kioti isn't exactly a household name, so it is hard to find info about them and reviews. I have no issues buying non US made equipment, if it's good. The Kioti tractors seem well liked from the few owners I've found. The local dealer can't seem to keep any on his lot! I might end up having to order one. I am going back and forth with the cab. I will be using this tractor for clearing snow, but we also have a ton of trees, many with low branches, and I wouldn't mind saving some money on such an expensive purchase. It also won't be used like construction equipment. I'll be using it to clear garden beds and digging post holes when it's warm, nothing serious.


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## jaoneill (Jan 15, 2019)

SpaceBus said:


> Thank you for sharing your experience. Kioti isn't exactly a household name, so it is hard to find info about them and reviews. I have no issues buying non US made equipment, if it's good. The Kioti tractors seem well liked from the few owners I've found. The local dealer can't seem to keep any on his lot! I might end up having to order one. I am going back and forth with the cab. I will be using this tractor for clearing snow, but we also have a ton of trees, many with low branches, and I wouldn't mind saving some money on such an expensive purchase. It also won't be used like construction equipment. I'll be using it to clear garden beds and digging post holes when it's warm, nothing serious.


We are in a very similar climate to yours and I have to say that if you plan to use a tractor here in the north in the winter, especially for snow removal (especially w/a blower), a heated cab is damn near a necessity. I cleared our mile of driveway on an open tractor through the seventies and early eighties and it was brutal. In '83 we bought a cab tractor and it has made a nearly impossible task merely a routine chore. Our's is an 80hp rig that is 10' to the top of the cab and requires a bit more branch pruning along the woods roads but that is not an issue for me when compared to sitting on an open tractor in lake effect snow at twenty below zero for hours at a time. For the most part, I try not to do my wood gathering in winter and mostly use one of our smaller, open platform tractors in the woods, but on occasion will use the big tractor to skid logs or haul the big dump wagon without issue.


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## SpaceBus (Jan 15, 2019)

jaoneill said:


> We are in a very similar climate to yours and I have to say that if you plan to use a tractor here in the north in the winter, especially for snow removal (especially w/a blower), a heated cab is damn near a necessity. I cleared our mile of driveway on an open tractor through the seventies and early eighties and it was brutal. In '83 we bought a cab tractor and it has made a nearly impossible task merely a routine chore. Our's is an 80hp rig that is 10' to the top of the cab and requires a bit more branch pruning along the woods roads but that is not an issue for me when compared to sitting on an open tractor in lake effect snow at twenty below zero for hours at a time. For the most part, I try not to do my wood gathering in winter and mostly use one of our smaller, open platform tractors in the woods, but on occasion will use the big tractor to skid logs or haul the big dump wagon without issue.




You do make a solid point. We don't get quite as much snow, but the wind coming off the coast is pretty brutal. I will definitely consider the field cab.


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## Exmasonite (Jan 27, 2019)

SB-

Congrats on the land and kudos for wanting to get set up and do it right. In a sorta similar position... got a 10 acre hobby farm in michigan 2 years ago. Instead of advice, will give you our rundown:

Farm: 2 old barns: 2 horses, 1 mini horse, 6 goats, 2 emus, 60 chickens, 10 ducks. 25 quail. 

Equipment:

Tractor: LS XR3135H (35 horse diesel hydrostatic). With FEL, back blade, and 72 inch bush hog: $22K new. For kubota and deere, same package would have cost me $26-28K. My dealer had kioti but for smaller HP tractors (like mine), a lot more premium features for same price point (split brakes, 2 additional hydraulic hookups on rear), extendable lower links, extra comfortable seat (Kioti's was a joke).

UTV: found a used JD gator 4x2 gas engine with cab and locking rear differential on craigslist for $4K. only 700 hours. 

Snowblower (don't laugh here): Sold my 28" Craftsman 2 stage i had from previous property because I plow with tractor... picked up a little electric/battery snow joe for front walk and barn for $150. 

2.5 acres of grass to deal with: Gravely XT52HD Zero turn

Saws: Stihl 260 Pro, 441C magnum, Echo 400


Not sure if you have an LS dealer close by but it's an awesome tractor. I only use about 150-200 hours/year but it's been nuke proof. Have added a nice grapple, box blade, and set of forks for the tractor. Also have a hydraulic dump cart that is epic. 

JD gator is awesome... i wouldn't consider a standard ATV... need the side by side for cargo space and passenger I think you are looking at all the right options. My gator was a diamond in the rough for guy who refurbishes them... likely an old michigan corrections unit with super low hours picked up for a steal. 4x2 is easy as my land (and all of lower michigan) is super flat. 

Hope that is helpful. Good luck.


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## SpaceBus (Jan 27, 2019)

Exmasonite said:


> SB-
> 
> Congrats on the land and kudos for wanting to get set up and do it right. In a sorta similar position... got a 10 acre hobby farm in michigan 2 years ago. Instead of advice, will give you our rundown:
> 
> ...



I'm most looking at similar stuff, just different brands. As far as livestock goes I only plan to have three Alpaca and my dogs, but your advice is well received. Most of my property is wooded, so a lot of my work will be forestry and construction based.


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## SpaceBus (Jan 28, 2019)

I also just learned that the Kioti tractors use the same engine for 45-60 models and the only difference is the tuning. Some dealers will even change the ECM tuning for greater power. I looked into this because the post hole differ attachment that is capable of using a 30"x48" auger requires 35 pto HP minimum, the DK4710 I am looking at is rated at 33.4 pto HP, just shy. The DK6010 is rated at 57.7 and 44.9 engine/pto HP and the only difference between it and the 4710 is the tune. This means I can just buy a 6010 ECM or have the 4710 ECM rewritten and have almost 60 HP for a lot less than the DK6010SE costs.


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## Exmasonite (Jan 28, 2019)

I would just make sure you get in writing (from Kioti central command, not local dealer) that tuning the ECM doesn't mess with the warranty. 

Seems a little too good to be true but intriguing....


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## SpaceBus (Jan 28, 2019)

Exmasonite said:


> I would just make sure you get in writing (from Kioti central command, not local dealer) that tuning the ECM doesn't mess with the warranty.
> 
> Seems a little too good to be true but intriguing....


Magnussen Moss warranty act states that it is the burden of the warranty issuer to prove anything the customer did led to the failure. The DK6010SE has a warranty and the same engine as the DK4710SE, the only difference being output tune. Anyone who has experience modifying turbocbarged vehicles/engines knows how easy it is to artificially limit power, which is what Kioti has done. They took a 60 HP engine and reduced output to 45 HP in the DK60/47 example. The DK60 costs thousands of dollars more. I don't need a 60 HP tractor, but I really want 35+ PTO HP.


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## SpaceBus (Jan 29, 2019)

I've been giving more thought to this tractor purchase and I think I'll be ordering a tractor. They really want me to buy the DK4710SE on the lot, but it only has 33.4 PTO HP and I really want at least 35 for the larger post hole digger and auger setup. The HST trans on the DK4710 incurs a 20% HP loss to the PTO. The DK4510 hydraulic shuttle has over 40 PTO HP, but I'd have to order it and it doesn't have the extra rear hydraulic lines standard that the SE versions get, so that will cost more. I just wish the DK10 SE series had the hydraulic shuttle as an option.


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## AlbergSteve (Jan 30, 2019)

SpaceBus said:


> using a 30"x48" auger



Was this a typo?


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## SpaceBus (Jan 30, 2019)

AlbergSteve said:


> Was this a typo?


No. The post hole digger attachment I'm looking at can really run a 30" x 48" auger. It also requires 35 HP at the PTO, minimum, so I'm looking for 40-45 PTO HP.


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## Mike.O (Jan 30, 2019)

SpaceBus said:


> No. The post hole digger attachment I'm looking at can really run a 30" x 48" auger. It also requires 35 HP at the PTO, minimum, so I'm looking for 40-45 PTO HP.


You'll be lucky to spin a 12, 18" at the absolute max.

In Maine with rocks, there's absolutely no way you can do that. There is no down pressure on a PTO auger, the only downward force is the auger "pulling" itself down.

Also 1-2 PTO HP is not going to make this magical difference in regards to wanting 35+ HP and only getting 33.4 HP. Don't get hung up on the "ideal conditions" numbers your reading about tractors.

EDIT: On a side note, the post hole digger you are looking at probably won't even fit the DK6010. The 3 point hitch is CAT 2. CAT 2 is a whole new level of implements geared for larger scale tractors.


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## SpaceBus (Jan 30, 2019)

Mike.O said:


> You'll be lucky to spin a 12, 18" at the absolute max.
> 
> In Maine with rocks, there's absolutely no way you can do that. There is no down pressure on a PTO auger, the only downward force is the auger "pulling" itself down.
> 
> Also 1-2 PTO HP is not going to make this magical difference in regards to wanting 35+ HP and only getting 33.4 HP. Don't get hung up on the "ideal conditions" numbers your reading about tractors.



Well, that's why I was looking at the same tractor, but with a hydraulic shuttle shift transmission with less drivetrain loss for about 40 PTO HP. I would just rather not be at the bottom end of what the implement requires. This is a big purchase and I don't want to get something underpowered for what I want to do. I'm planning on building some pole structures, so I want to make sure the tractor will facilitate that for me. I would hate to need a bigger tractor later. 

Maybe I'm I'm just making excuses because I really want a gear transmission. I'm fine with 45 engine HP, but I just don't like automatic transmissions normally. If my health weren't crap, I would go manual all the way. The hydro shuttle sounds like a good compromise. 

As far as the auger goes, yeah, Maine soil is crap. I was hoping to get away with at least the 24" auger for a 14' pole barn. I'm going to be using the tractor to grind a lot of stumps and grade a lot of dirt, so a bit more power to the wheels won't hurt here either.

Do any of you readers have a hydro shuttle and would like to share your experience? The Kioti tractors have a twin pedal HST, so it's not as bad as some of the other tractors out there. They also have the option to link the pedals to the accelerator so it drives more like a car. Of course the dealer having no manuals, and maybe one hydro shuttle, would say that the HST is the best trans for the snow. If the HST really is that much better in day to day use of the tractor, then I will concede. Even in sports/enthusiast cars the automatic can be the more rewarding transmission. I'm not so much of a purist that I can't see when something really is better.


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## jorswift (Jan 30, 2019)

Nice! Thanks for your service!

I have 10 acres; 2 tillable, 1 home site, 7 woods.  I have a diesel JD4300 hydrostat with 420 loader.  Man it is nice having a tractor with a loader. I had a '53 Ford Jubilee before that and it was fun, but couldn't get a lot of work done. Also have about 30 aces of woods that I help manage and take care of with a buddy.  I have 10" auger, box blade, blade, bush hog, carry all, and looking to add a tiller soon.  I tell you, you find work to do with the tractor! 

I researched, looked and watched prices of tractors for 3 years before I got the JD, it is used, but if maintained correctly, it will outlast my needs!  I highly recommend staying with Kubota or JD.  Or even looking for an older Allis or Massey.  Good luck.


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## AlbergSteve (Jan 31, 2019)

What would you ever need a 30'' diameter hole for?


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## Snagdaddy (Jan 31, 2019)

Big auger holes are good for tree planting.


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## SpaceBus (Jan 31, 2019)

Snagdaddy said:


> Big auger holes are good for tree planting.



Which we will be doing.


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## Chimney Smoke (Feb 1, 2019)

SpaceBus said:


> Which we will be doing.



Drill 3 holes with a 12 inch bit?  Also, most of the coast is ledge and you're within eyesight of the water.  Maybe pay someone to come do a few test drills around random parts of the property before you sink lots of money into something you may never be able to use?


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## SpaceBus (Feb 1, 2019)

I asked the dealer and they said the 45 HP HST tractor they have will run the HD Digger as long as I'm not trying to dig to max depth with the 30" auger, which isn't possible here anyway, so it doesn't matter. Kioti discontinued the hydraulic shuttle for the DK series tractors, so I'm doing hydrostatic or I have to spend a lot of money to get the next size up which has a power shift. I think the hydrostatic will be awesome, despite my inherent lack of trust in automatic transmissions. The tractor on the lot has a lot of incentives as well, so I think this is what I'm going with. I'll probably bring it home in a few weeks, just waiting on funds to move between financial institutions.


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## Kiotick4010 (Feb 4, 2019)

SpaceBus said:


> Magnussen Moss warranty act states that it is the burden of the warranty issuer to prove anything the customer did led to the failure. The DK6010SE has a warranty and the same engine as the DK4710SE, the only difference being output tune. Anyone who has experience modifying turbocbarged vehicles/engines knows how easy it is to artificially limit power, which is what Kioti has done. They took a 60 HP engine and reduced output to 45 HP in the DK60/47 example. The DK60 costs thousands of dollars more. I don't need a 60 HP tractor, but I really want 35+ PTO HP.[/QUOTE
> 
> You don’t understand Magnussen Moss.
> 
> ...


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