# Smoke from Quadrafire 1200 pellet stove



## DougF (Oct 6, 2009)

Hello all,

I have Quadrafire 1200 pellet stove, upon startup  the chamber fills with smoke then some leaks  into the room,
(Enough to cause the smoke alarm above the stove to go off on occasion..)

After the pellets are burning in the fire pot it seems to be fine and the smoke smell dissipates after awhile.

The stove is running properly except for the above.   I have cleaned the flue/flue clean-out, ash box, burn pot and
exhaust clean-out box.   The smoke does not come from the stove door or from the flue (flue joints have been sealed
with metal tape.    If I shine a bright light into the right hand side of the stove with the panel doors open I can see,
during initial startup , a bit of smoke being blown around (I am guessing because of the air movement caused by the
exhaust blower running).   I can't figure out where it's coming from.

Is there anything else that needs to be cleaned of ash I might be missing?
The only other place I can think of to check is the gasket between the stove and the exhaust blower but
I have no idea how to remove the exhaust fan from the stove...Leaky gasket?  Something that's causing a restriction
in the exhaust? Any ideas?

The stove is 2 years old and has had maybe 3 tons of pellets run thru it.


Thanks for any responses!  It's gonna get cold soon 

dougF


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## slls (Oct 6, 2009)

So you removed the 2 plates above the burn pot and cleaned there, used the tube scraper. Right side plate with 4 screws and cleaned in there. If yes to all you have a vent leak around the pipes, in a dark room with a flashlight check the pipe seams for leaks.


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## DougF (Oct 6, 2009)

slls,

"So you removed the 2 plates above the burn pot and cleaned there, used the tube scraper. Right side plate with 4 screws and cleaned in there. If yes to all you have a vent leak around the pipes, in a dark room with a flashlight check the pipe seams for leaks."

All this is done except for the plate removal above the burn pot..... I'll give that a go....
THANKS!


dougF


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## DougF (Oct 6, 2009)

sls,

I  pulled the two top plates and there was a lot of ash build up on the top of em.... cleaned them off and re-installed.
Same problem...smoke alarm went off on initial startup but running with fire in the fire pot no apparent problem.

When you mentioned "tubes" did you mean the heat exchanger tubes? If so I am guessing I need to pull out the tops plates
 and fire the stove up again to see them....

Thanks again..


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## CanadaClinker (Oct 7, 2009)

Hi Handyd123....... you probably did this but........ did you check the gasket on the back side of the 'right' clean out panel (the one with the 4 screws) before you reinstalled it .... this is where you saw the smoke you said.... see attached pic.


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## DougF (Oct 7, 2009)

Canada,


Yes I checked that....I even ran a bead of high temp caulk around the edges just in case....

Still no luck....

Thanks for the pic though. 

I just realized that the exhaust fan blades are at the end of the box....
So since I know the flue is not leaking and that the glass door is not leaking..it would almost seem to  me
it either has to be the heat exchanger box is leaking somewhere or possibly the exhaust fan gasket is not sealing
properly?    I don't know what else it could be at this point....  when the fire is rolling everything appears to be fine...


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## CanadaClinker (Oct 7, 2009)

Then that is covered ..... the next thing I would check is  on the 'out' side of the exhaust blower ...this is where the pressure would be (because the other side of the blower where the right clean out panel is is the suction side)... therefore I would check on the out side for smoke squirting out under pressure.  You can also test this side using a weak soap solution when the stove is cold. Flick the thermostat on then off  quickly to activate the blower motor, then while it is running use a paintbrush or plant mister to apply the soap solution and check for bubbles....  checking for smoke can sometimes be difficult because it's not dense enough to be seen  and you only have a few seconds to find it at start up ....


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## fluemasterjr (Oct 7, 2009)

try removing the access panel under the ash lip it has 2 Phillips head screws and clean in there if air cant get pulled into the stove through the burn pot it will smoke more than normal also how are the quality of your pellets?? are the damp at all?? damp pellets are very hard to light and the cause excess smoke.


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## DougF (Oct 7, 2009)

fluemasterjr,

I not sure where "try removing the access panel under the ash lip"   this is located...

Would this be on the underside of the burn pot (where the igniter is located...I think)?

Thanks


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## slls (Oct 7, 2009)

I think you have vent leak, look again. On install mine leaked at the opening on the stove end of the adapter, Pelletvent Pro. Needed to seal the first pipe inside with red silicone. Mine leaked at the air gap in the pic, needed to be sealed at the first pipe. 
Not sure about metal tape, never used it.


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## DougF (Oct 7, 2009)

sls,

Here's a pic of my exhaust blower attached to the  flue pipe.... it's pretty well wrapped in metal tape and from what I can see at least
should be sealed all the way around....

handyd123


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## DougF (Oct 7, 2009)

Canada,


No luck with misting the soapy water on the exhaust blower....seems to not leak...although I can not easily check the whole area where the gasket is as I can not  get to it....(see pic in previous post).....

....and on it goes....   

There was mention of too much moisture in the pellets.  They have been sitting in the hopper since last winter.....
So next I will get em outta there and put a fresh batch in and re-test...

Thanks

Handy123


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## Wood Heat Stoves (Oct 7, 2009)

i have the service manual, send me a pm with your emailaddy, i'll email it to you. assuming this is the freestanding version?
if i dont reply, send email to daveg@woodheatstoves.com
snippet from svc manual
SLOW OR SMOKEY START UP
1) CLEAN FIREPOT
2) FEED ADJUSTMENT PLATE MAY BE SET TOO HIGH
3) CHECK EXHAUST BLOWER AND HEAT EXCHANGER
4) MAKE SURE TRAP DOOR UNDER FIREPOT IS CLOSED
FIREPOT AND EXHAUST SYSTEM TROUBLE-SHOOTING
THE FIREPOT IS MADE OF CAST STEEL AND IS DESIGNED WITH AIR INTAKE HOLES THAT SWIRL THE
FIRE AND HELP TO REMOVE THE ASH CREATED FROM THE BURNING OF THE PELLET FUEL. THERE IS
ALSO A SLOT OR AIR PASSAGE IN THE BOTTOM SIDE OF THE FIREPOT THAT ALLOWS HOT AIR FROM
THE IGNITER TO LIGHT THE PELLET FUEL. DURING THE BURN CYCLE PROCESS IN THE FIREPOT,
“CLINKER” MATERIAL WILL START TO BUILD-UP. (SEE *FIGURE 1) THE RATE OF THIS BUILD-UP WILL
DEPEND ON THE QUALITY OF THE PELLET FUEL BEING USED. OVER TIME THIS BUILD-UP OF CLINKER
MATERIAL CAN OBSTRUCT THE AIR PASSAGES AND CAN CAUSE PROBLEMS WITH THE OPERATION OF
THE FIREPOT. THIS CAN ALSO CAUSE THE FIREPOT CLEAN OUT DOOR TO BECOME HARD TO PULL IF
THE FIREPOT IS NOT CLEANED ON A REGULAR BASIS.
* FIGURE EXAMPLES ARE LOCATED ON THE NEXT PAGE.
THE FIREPOT IS JUST ONE COMPONENT OF THE TOTAL COMBUSTION SYSTEM. COMBUSTION
AIR FLOWS INTO A ROUND OPENING LOCATED IN THE PEDESTAL BASE IN THE BACK OF THE UNIT.
(SEE *FIGURE 2) THIS AIR TRAVELS TO A RECTANGLE SHAPED OPENING LOCATED JUST BEHIND
THE BOTTOM OF THE FIREPOT. (SEE *FIGURE 3) COMBUSTION AIR WILL FLOW THROUGH THE AIR
OPENINGS IN THE FIREPOT AND IS THEN TRANSFORMED INTO EXHAUST GASES. THE EXHAUST
GASES WILL FLOW FROM THE FIREPOT TO THE BAFFLE PLATES AND HEAT EXCHANGER TUBES. (SEE
*FIGURE 4) THE EXHAUST WILL FLOW FROM THE HEAT EXCHANGER TUBES TO THE EXHAUST BLOWER
HOUSING. (SEE *FIGURE 5) THIS COMPLETES THE NEGATIVE PRESSURE OR VACUUM PORTION OF
THE COMBUSTION SYSTEM. AFTER THE EXHAUST ENTERS THE EXHAUST BLOWER HOUSING IT IS
THEN PUSHED OUT INTO THE VENT PIPE OR CHIMNEY PORTION OF THE EXHAUST SYSTEM. (SEE
*FIGURE 6)
IF ANY PART OF THE EXHAUST SYSTEM IS RESTRICTED, THE STOVE WILL BURN DIRTY WITH TALL
LAZY FLAMES. THE STOVE MAY ALSO EXPERIENCE PROBLEMS WITH LIGHTING THE PELLET FUEL DUE
TO THE REDUCED AIR FLOW THROUGH THE FIREPOT.
IF ANY PART OF THE EXHAUST SYSTEM IS BLOCKED, THE STOVE WILL NOT FEED BECAUSE THE
VACUUM SWITCH WILL NOT ENGAGE. NORMALLY THE STOVE WILL HAVE BETWEEN .20 TO .30 INCHES
OF WATER COLUMN IN THE FIREBOX WITH STOVE SET ON THE HIGH FEED RATE.
IF THE COMBUSTION AIR IS RESTRICTED TO THE FIREPOT OR IF THE COMBUSTION AIR TRAP DOOR
(SEE *FIGURE 7) IS NOT CLOSED, THE STOVE WILL HAVE TALL, SOOTY, AND LAZY FLAMES. THE
PELLETS WILL ALSO HAVE A HARD TIME LIGHTING DUE TO THE LACK OF COMBUSTION AIR COMING TO
THE FIREPOT OR BY COMBUSTION AIR BYPASSING THE FIREPOT DUE TO THE COMBUSTION AIR TRAP
DOOR NOT CLOSING PROPERLY. THIS TRAP DOOR IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ISOLATING COMBUSTION AIR
FROM THE EXHAUST GASES.


taken from svc manual


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## Wood Heat Stoves (Oct 7, 2009)

i just sent the manual via email, if it doesn't arrive, check your junk mail folder, we send lots of emails......


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## CanadaClinker (Oct 7, 2009)

There are many reasons for a pellet stove smoking inside itself, but the question is how is it getting out of the stove into the room.... one place is the top of the glass of the door..... there is a slit above the glass (not the metal frame holding the glass but the glass itself) which acts as the wash for the glass.  When everything is working ok, there is suction from the room into the stove preventing smoke from getting out there.  If your exhaust pipe is plugged or the blower isn't doing a good job or a leak in the pipe, then the smoke won't be pushed outside where it is supposed to go and keep the room air going in the slit into the stove.  

Another one that the dealer told me about was in an air tight house (without an Outside Air Kit OAK). At the end of the exhaust pipe outside the house where the end cap goes on, there are 4 slits between the inner and outer pipes.  He said they have seen the smoke being sucked back into the house throught these slits as the stove forces the smoke  out of the house.... again this is with an air tight house.  He said to be sure to seal these up with heat silicone....(and install an OAK)... more thoughts for your...  :lol:


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## DougF (Oct 7, 2009)

Canada,

Yeps but I can see smoke briefly in the area where the exhaust clean-out is inside the stove frame.]
Seems to be most noticeable on the right hand side of the stove...dunno why...

My house is 60 years old so I don't have to worry about a tight house....like maybe some do.....LOL


With all the great posts I'm sure I can nail this thing down at some point I hope.  It's a little hard to get to some of the stove
as it's a free stander in a corner of the room.

Thanks


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## Nicholas440 (Oct 7, 2009)

If all else fails,  I would remove all that tape on the exhaust pipe, and use red silicone , and let it cure for a few hours then fire it up and look again.  Mine was leaking at the joint on the exhaust where you have tape, and we put the silicone on it and not a single puff of smoke since..

 Good luck..

PS  Also if you havent done so, pull that flue pipe and clean it out before you silicone it up... mine was loaded with flyash after only 3 tons...


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## CanadaClinker (Oct 8, 2009)

Nicholas has a good idea there...... might just be just the ticket........ Oh and one last word about the glass wash 'slit' on the top edge of the glass (all 3 panels) as I mentoned above... my dealer who is a very knowledgeable and helpful guy said that after a month or so, the fine slit gets plugged with lint from the room air and slowly over time the glass wash becomes less affective of keeping buildup off the inside of the glass.  He showed me how to take a piece of very fine wire and insert it up there (shaped similar to an upside down j shape) and move it from one side to the other of the glass windows to clean out the slit using the vacuum on it at the same time..... I would have never thought of that......   .... anyway, good luck handyd at stopping the smoke leak.....  ;-)


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## DougF (Oct 8, 2009)

Thanks for all the suggestions....this has been great!

Just one more thing that I have noticed.   Initially I have been shutting the stove down, via thermostat settings,  after first fire up.
Tonight I am letting it cycle and have noticed what I think is way too much smoke in the stove before the pellets ignite so perhaps
I am getting too much pressure build up that is causing the smoke leak?  Just a thought...

I'll do some further reading....


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## CanadaClinker (Oct 8, 2009)

From what you said there, read the bottom 3 paragraphs on page 19 of the 'service manual'.... sounds like a lack of air flow.... on the exhaust side of the blower.... still shouldn't be any smoke leaking into the room even under pressure...


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## DougF (Oct 9, 2009)

Well, found new place to clean out from the service manual.... below the fire pot...there was two years of pellet soot and some small 
klinkers.....  cleaned em out.... put it all back together fired it up and still smoke....

I noticed the fire pot flame was a bit high so tonight I'll replace the pellets in the hopper with "fresh" batch and lower the flame.

...then onto the exhaust blower fan.....

handyd123


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## smg64ct (Oct 9, 2009)

I had the same problem with my cb1200. Whoever installed my stove (previous owner) they ran the pipe with too many bends and curves. I just bought a MT vernon and put the 1200 in the cellar. When they removed the 1200 from the exhaust pipe it was full of ash and it wasn't venting well. They put it in the cellar ran a straight pipe with a clean out and now the stove doesn't do it anymore.


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## DougF (Oct 9, 2009)

Steve G,

My stove has a T coming from the stove (with clean out at the bottom...then a straight run to the  outside..probably about
4ft in length with a vent cap installed at the end .. it's free standing in the corner of the den.

Handyd


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## DougF (Oct 9, 2009)

Steve G,

My stove has a T coming from the exhaust blower (with clean out at the bottom...) then a straight run to the  outside..probably about
4ft in length with a vent cap installed at the end .. it's free standing in the corner of the den. I'm gonna tackle removing the
exhaust blower this weekend and see if there's any thing causing a restriction in there...

BTW,  this is a Qudra-Fire Classic 1200  ....it was installed (professionally) two years ago....it has always released a little bit of smoke into the room on initial fire up....I don't know if this is normal for this stove or not....  At my other house I  had a pellet stove
(installed in 1998) ...it was a Glo-King pellet stove (which is no longer made) but it never released any smoke into the room  and ran flawless for about 7 years  and to date I think it was the best pellet stove every made....quality workmanship and materials all around...but today...I'm not sure a stove like
that one even exits.... ;-)

Handyd


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## CanadaClinker (Oct 9, 2009)

Heres another area to check on your CB 1200.......since the 'air circuit' has to be continuous right from the air intake, through the rectangular duct chamber behind the pot, through the pot area, through the pot, through the heat exchanger, through the blower and finally out the exhaust pipe to the outside..... if any place along the 'air path' is obstructed then the smoke will just sit there and not be ejected out the exhaust. The exhaust blower will just be 'spinning it's wheels - so to speak'. Below is a pic from the service manual showing the air intake which goes into a hole on the bottom of the stove next to the blower. It then goes along the floor to the centre of the stove and up a rectangular duct to the back of the 'pot area'.  The problem with the photo is it shows what looks like shag carpet..... (probably in the show room floor). If the rug or anything else blocks the area between the hole (in pink) and the square metal riser duct located behind the pot area, then that could also be an area of blockage in the 'air circuit'.... basically the stove is starving for air.  You might have to lift the stove an inch and use a flashlight to check out the floor area in case a mouse or carpet has blocked that area.  See pic below..... Good Luck!....


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## DougF (Oct 10, 2009)

Canada,

Just a quick question....

So the combustion intake hole in the base of the stove draws air in and under the base?  I guess by example, if I  completely blocked the the  hole  in your pic then no air would be drawn thru the air intake into the firepot combustion chamber?  Wish I could see the underside of the base then I could figure it out....well I could be not gonna.... too much work ;-).


Well it helps to take a closer look now doesn't it? ....I understand now....never mind.....Survey sez YES! DOH!

I am getting what I think is good draw from the intake hole....held a lit candle  over it and at  about maybe 1 1/2 inches  from the hole
the flame went out...    as mentioned before I'll remove last years pellets from the hopper and try again...
....and so it goes...


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## CanadaClinker (Oct 10, 2009)

Hey handy..... yes once you have an image in your head on how the air circuit works.... a lot of other things start to make sense ..... oh and you probably already know but there are 2 trap doors below the pot.... the one on the bottom of the pot itself and the one below it on the bottom of the air chamber (between the air chamber and the ash pan that opens into the as pan).  To check that both doors are open/close properly when you pull/push the handle (and that the air flow is unobstructed going to the burning pot), just above the ash bin on the front of the stove (between the ash bin and the metal protruding lip below the door) is an access port secured with 2 screws (about 8 inches apart horizontally).  You can see the operation of the trap doors in there.... you also need to clean in there maybe twice a season.  Because it is a tight area in there, I use what someone else on this site suggested is a piece of garden hose taped to your vacuum. I took an old fitting from the vacuum and siliconed and taped  the 3 ft piece of hose on it.  It cleans right in there to the back of the air chambe behind the pot... (a vacuum crevice tool just doesn't quite fit I find).

If the 'bottom' door came off the linkage or isn't closing properly, the air from the normal air circuit gets sucked down into the ash pan and around up to the air exchainger (rather than getting sucked  through the pot and working on burning the pellets) This diversion of air around the pot would cause a lazy, smoky burn rather than a forced air burn , if you get what I'm saying.  This system is like when you have ever blown into the base of a fire and watched how the oxygen from your breath causes the flame to really take off.  Same thing with the air into the bottom of the burning pot from the lower air chamber.  This suction is all caused by the exhaust blower and a clear path to it right from the air intake.  

Hope this also helps ya .... have fun getting to know your stove....  ;-)


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## eandbnorton (Dec 2, 2009)

Handy, did you ever figure out your problem?  I have a CB1200-I (insert) and have the exact same problem as you.  Mine seems to be occuring just when the stove is cold and just at startup.  It was professionally installed a couple months ago.


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## jtp10181 (Dec 3, 2009)

Has it always leaked smoke, or is it a recent development?


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## eandbnorton (Dec 3, 2009)

Mine has always leaked smoke.  Today the techs are replacing the whole vent tube and adapter.  Hopefully that will fix it.  My stove is only 2 months old and it definately is just leaking smoke from behind both side panels (mine is an insert.)

Edited:  discovered that is isn't a venting problem.  Smoke is actually escaping from the exhaust blower...but it only happens when the appliance is cold, like its the first start up for the day.  Any ideas what's causing it?  Does the whole exhaust blower need to be replaced?


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## jtp10181 (Dec 5, 2009)

How long does it take to ignite? Should only fill the box with smoke for a short time and then ignite. If you get a lot of rolling smoke in the box its an ignition problem.


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## gregg3g (Jan 4, 2011)

CanadaClinker said:
			
		

> Nicholas has a good idea there...... might just be just the ticket........ Oh and one last word about the glass wash 'slit' on the top edge of the glass (all 3 panels) as I mentoned above... my dealer who is a very knowledgeable and helpful guy said that after a month or so, the fine slit gets plugged with lint from the room air and slowly over time the glass wash becomes less affective of keeping buildup off the inside of the glass.  He showed me how to take a piece of very fine wire and insert it up there (shaped similar to an upside down j shape) and move it from one side to the other of the glass windows to clean out the slit using the vacuum on it at the same time..... I would have never thought of that......   .... anyway, good luck handyd at stopping the smoke leak.....  ;-)



Can you post a picture of this please?  My dealer states that there is no glass wash slit on the Quadrafire Classic Bay 1200 and I can't seem to find it.
Thanks!


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