# Dutchwest 2461



## VCBurner (Jan 2, 2010)

Hello everyone, happy New Year! This is my first post.
This is my first year heating with wood. I got a free antique cast iron stove (Atlanta Stoveworks Box #27) last year. While in the process of restoring it I bought a Surdiac Gotha 513 for $80. I've been addicted ever since. I'm in the process of purchasing a large Dutchwest #2461. One of the catalytic models by Vermont Castings. We've saved a ton of money this year by burning wood! I would like to be sure that I'm buying a good stove. Does anyone have one of these? It is said to put out 40,000Max BTU, burns 22" logs for up to 9hrs, heats up to 1600 sq. ft. with a 76% efficiency rating. If this is all true and it's is as durable and reliable, as the guy who's selling it says it is, then this is the right kind of stove for me. If anyone owns one of these I'd like to hear about your experience with this stove! Thank you in advance.


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## bsa0021 (Jan 2, 2010)

The duchwest noncat stoves are very fragile (mine was scrap in 4 years). I don't know about the cat stoves but I wouldn't buy anything from VC.


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## Todd (Jan 2, 2010)

I've always liked the looks of those Dutchwest cat stoves, but I keep hearing there are too many parts inside to go wrong and they tend to be finicky to burn at times. Take a look at the ratings section on this site and check out the different models your interested in.


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## swestall (Jan 2, 2010)

Looks are great, performance is good, while it lasts. You might just want to run with what you have  and save up for a non-cat stove. There are many,many good ones out there. I like soapstone and the PE Aldera stoves. But, there are many other good ones. In the long run you will be happy you waited until you could get the best. In the meantime, you seem to be doing pretty well with what you have.


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## Pine Knot (Jan 3, 2010)

I've burned a #2461 for a couple of years now and I like it pretty well. Good even heat, once the cat starts it puts out steady heat until time for reload, which for me is about every 6 hours, over night burns are good, I've used one match so far this year.Ash handleing is easy, the grate lets fine ash fall thru into the ash pan which I empty once a day, usually in the morning before I reload.
So far I have had no problems with this stove but one of the other posters point about dealing with VC is well taken, they are an unknown as far as service and parts at this time.


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## webby3650 (Jan 3, 2010)

I would do a search on this site before pulling the trigger on one of these stoves, been lots of problems discussed on here, some good experience's but most are bad. I find in the field that most people that own one of these stoves have some kind of issue that other stoves don't have.


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## VCBurner (Jan 4, 2010)

Webby thanks for the reply.  What are some of the things you've encountered with the Dutchwest large cat in the field?  I'm a union carpenter.  As a tradesman we see all sorts of conditions that are field specific and would never see on paper.  I also have come to highly respect the opinion of other tradesmen.  Could you comment on what sorts of problems you've seen.  Also, have you found any issues with Vermont Castings catalytic Defiant Encore?  Other than expensive parts and slightly small fire box (20" log.)  This is another one I was looking at.

The negative things I've heard so far are that the Dutchwest is easily warped and difficult to fire, among others.  Some have gone as far as saying it's a piece of junk.  Most of these comments were made about the non-cat models.  I've heard that originally, before they were purchased by Vermont Castings they were a very cheaply made stove.  However, after they were bought out, VC fixed some of the problems.  They also went out of busyness as a result of purchasing a bad company and fallen oil prices.  

Are these negative comments a result of a "Dutchwest curse?"  Vermont Castings has not been the same since they went under for the first time.


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## VCBurner (Jan 4, 2010)

Todd said:
			
		

> I've always liked the looks of those Dutchwest cat stoves, but I keep hearing there are too many parts inside to go wrong and they tend to be finicky to burn at times. Take a look at the ratings section on this site and check out the different models your interested in.



"Todd, thanks for the post.  I spent hours researching all the ratings for VC: Vigilant, Defiant Encore, Dutchwest.  Most owners were dissatisfied with the manufacturer in the majority of the reviews.  The Dutchwest model 2461 got mostly good reviews.  The non-cat versions of this stove got worse reviews.  It seems interior parts are prone to warping. I sort of get it now!  As in all aspects of life you get what you pay for.  I don't have the money to buy a brand new stove.  I also looked at the ratings for the Woodstock Fireview. You can't find a used one of these.  Probably, because everyone loves them. WOW!  This stove seems to get people tickled pink!  So I'll probably go with the lesser of the three evils: the Dutchwest 2461 Cat.  Knowing that i'll get a half way decent stove that is prone to warping and is manufactured by careless crooks.  I'll keep my fingers crossed in hopes that I'll be one of the owners who are pleased."


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## VCBurner (Jan 4, 2010)

Pine Knot said:
			
		

> I've burned a #2461 for a couple of years now and I like it pretty well. Good even heat, once the cat starts it puts out steady heat until time for reload, which for me is about every 6 hours, over night burns are good, I've used one match so far this year.Ash handleing is easy, the grate lets fine ash fall thru into the ash pan which I empty once a day, usually in the morning before I reload.
> So far I have had no problems with this stove but one of the other posters point about dealing with VC is well taken, they are an unknown as far as service and parts at this time.



"Thank you Pineknot, good to hear from a happy owner!  I hope you continue to be pleased with the Dutchwest.  I hope I will too.  Burn on!!"


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## webby3650 (Jan 4, 2010)

VC said:
			
		

> Webby thanks for the reply. What are some of the things you've encountered with the Dutchwest large cat in the field? I'm a union carpenter. As a tradesman we see all sorts of conditions that are field specific and would never see on paper. I also have come to highly respect the opinion of other tradesmen. Could you comment on what sorts of problems you've seen. Also, have you found any issues with Vermont Castings catalytic Defiant Encore? Other than expensive parts and slightly small fire box (20" log.) This is another one I was looking at.
> 
> The negative things I've heard so far are that the Dutchwest is easily warped and difficult to fire, among others. Some have gone as far as saying it's a piece of junk. Most of these comments were made about the non-cat models. I've heard that originally, before they were purchased by Vermont Castings they were a very cheaply made stove. However, after they were bought out, VC fixed some of the problems. They also went out of busyness as a result of purchasing a bad company and fallen oil prices.
> 
> Are these negative comments a result of a "Dutchwest curse?" Vermont Castings has not been the same since they went under for the first time.


Sorry for the delay, The negative things about  Dutchwest I have heard in the field are: (all of the experiences are from experienced wood burners) "my stove will let out a big puff of smoke after it's up to temp./ "Cat won't stay engaged, I've tried everything./ "Sometimes this stove will get SOOO Hot during the cycle that I almost panic, then it calms down, no explanation, just goes crazy sometimes. And one customer that had an unbelievable amount of creosote after two years. (about 30 gallons in a single story flue)
I have a customer with a Defiant Cat stove that he has removed because the top keeps cracking on it. It cracked under warranty and was replaced by VC, the second time it was two days out of warranty, VC would do nothing about it, said he must be over firing it. I saw no signs of overfiring but who knows. He brought his old Fisher back in.


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## summit (Jan 5, 2010)

I would stay away from the Dutchwest Catalytic stoves: too many parts, too often blown out, and they are quite tricky to run properly... a woodstock or BK would be a better choice in a CAT stove.


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## VCBurner (Jan 5, 2010)

summit said:
			
		

> I would stay away from the Dutchwest Catalytic stoves: too many parts, too often blown out, and they are quite tricky to run properly... a woodstock or BK would be a better choice in a CAT stove.


 
Summit, thanks for the post. I see you are in the stove/chimney business.  Do you own a stove shop?  If so, do you sell the Dutchwest by VC?  I was wondering, what are some of the problems you've encountered in the field?  I've heard a lot of good things about Woodstock and BK but they are hard to find used.  I don't have the budget for a new one.


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## summit (Jan 5, 2010)

we really only sell the non cat VC and DW cast woodstoves (very few catalytic or gas)... we sell so many parts for the old catalytic ones that we coulda built a couple thousand by now... I run into burnt out parts on VC and DW Cat stoves alot. Any part you want to think of (although the outer shell usually holds up well, its all the parts inside) we replace or get for people tenfold over the year. They are pretty stoves (the wife will never tell you to take it back, especially after looking at a BK), throw pretty decent heat, but the reliability is lacking, and the operation takes a lot of getting used to. someone mentioned the backpuffs, and that is a common enough occurence to mention.


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## bsa0021 (Jan 5, 2010)

VCburner
If you can't afford a new stove why would you buy a used VC stove knowing that they are prone to parts failure. Anyone selling one of these stoves is probably selling it because of the issues mentioned in this post. Save your money and buy something new of better quality or look for a used stove of a different brand.


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## VCBurner (Jan 5, 2010)

summit said:
			
		

> we really only sell the non cat VC and DW cast woodstoves (very few catalytic or gas)... we sell so many parts for the old catalytic ones that we coulda built a couple thousand by now... I run into burnt out parts on VC and DW Cat stoves alot. Any part you want to think of (although the outer shell usually holds up well, its all the parts inside) we replace or get for people tenfold over the year. They are pretty stoves (the wife will never tell you to take it back, especially after looking at a BK), throw pretty decent heat, but the reliability is lacking, and the operation takes a lot of getting used to. someone mentioned the backpuffs, and that is a common enough occurence to mention.


Thanks again Summit.  I appreciate a professional opinion and will certainly consider it while making my selection. Burn on!


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## VCBurner (Jan 5, 2010)

bsa0021 said:
			
		

> VCburner
> If you can't afford a new stove why would you buy a used VC stove knowing that they are prone to parts failure. Anyone selling one of these stoves is probably selling it because of the issues mentioned in this post. Save your money and buy something new of better quality or look for a used stove of a different brand.




Thank you for the reply Bsa.  The Dutchwest I was looking at is completely rebuilt so I hope it won't come with all the excess cement that is often mentioned by the new Dutch owners.  Upon inspection the stove looks brand new.  It is 6 years old and has a new catalyst.  There are no warped parts and costs is just about a third of the price of a new one.  I'm hoping that I can get by for about three years with the stove I buy.  We are using two stoves to heat the house:  an antique 1936 Atlanta Stoveworks Box #27 in the fireplace and a 1980 Surdiac Gotha 513 coal/wood stove in the basement.  Together, they go through a lot of wood but heat the house well.  I hope, buying a newer stove for the basement with longer burning time will get me by for the next couple of years.  I've heard lots of good reports from people who burn these stoves and probably fewer bad ones.  The majority of their customers are not happy with the company, which seems to have gone downhill after Majestic took over.  After purchasing the stove I plan on rebuilding my Surdiac to put in the livingroom.  The model Surdiac I have is not a good stove to primarily heat a house.  It has a small firebox, the hopper clips stick out of the sides, preventing you from maximizing the use of the firebox space.  It also has a small top loading door and glass fireview door which always breaks.  Sorry for the longwinded quote.  Thanks again for your reply!  Take care.


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## VCBurner (Jan 5, 2010)

webby3650 said:
			
		

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  Thanks again Webby!


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## FireWalker (Jan 5, 2010)

I owned the next size bigger and ran it for 12 years. I replaced the cat once and did regular maintence on the door seals. If I had one piece of advise regarding operation of that stove it would have to be your wood supply.......If you are at all suspect that the wood you have now and are planning on burning this season is not really well seasoned do not buy that stove. That stove will burp smoke out the air inlets every night if you feed it partially seasoned wood. The cat cools below light off temp, smoke collects in the firebox ,the coals ignite the gasses and poooooooof you have a smelly house. If you get yourself truely one year ahead with your wood supply.......next years wood is stacked and covered while you are burning this years wood you will be fine with that stove.


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## VCBurner (Jan 5, 2010)

FireWalker said:
			
		

> I owned the next size bigger and ran it for 12 years. I replaced the cat once and did regular maintence on the door seals. If I had one piece of advise regarding operation of that stove it would have to be your wood supply.......If you are at all suspect that the wood you have now and are planning on burning this season is not really well seasoned do not buy that stove. That stove will burp smoke out the air inlets every night if you feed it partially seasoned wood. The cat cools below light off temp, smoke collects in the firebox ,the coals ignite the gasses and poooooooof you have a smelly house. If you get yourself truely one year ahead with your wood supply.......next years wood is stacked and covered while you are burning this years wood you will be fine with that stove.



"Thanks for the info Firewalker.  As a newbie, I can use as many tips as possible.


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## VCBurner (Jan 5, 2010)

VCBurner said:
			
		

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"The trees for next year are down but not cut or split.  Do you think I will have a problem?"


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## FireWalker (Jan 5, 2010)

Some wood laying uncut on the ground, especially oak might as well be standing, it doesn't really dry out until it's cut up and split. Now if it's birch, ash, beech, or soft maple, get it split and stacked a.s.a.p. giving it all spring, summer and fall to season. If it's oak, forget about it, you won't be happy. I'm telling you, that stove is fussy, the owners manual goes on and on about how burning wood and finding the perfect stove settings is some sort of an art form. Well when it's cold outside and your feet are cold I'm not interested in art, I want fire and lots of it.

I spent a lot of nights feeding mine green wood until I smartened up and planned ahead........now doing this right is truely an art. 

My old neighbor from Canada used to laugh at me cutting and splitting wood tha I planned to bund that winter. He was out there near everyday splitting a little wood at age 70. He always had 2 years worth of stacked and split hardwood outside and one years worth in the barn ready to go. Of course I had a day job, he was retired but something told me he had been doing it this way for many years.


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## VCBurner (Jan 6, 2010)

FireWalker said:
			
		

> Some wood laying uncut on the ground, especially oak might as well be standing, it doesn't really dry out until it's cut up and split. Now if it's birch, ash, beech, or soft maple, get it split and stacked a.s.a.p. giving it all spring, summer and fall to season. If it's oak, forget about it, you won't be happy. I'm telling you, that stove is fussy, the owners manual goes on and on about how burning wood and finding the perfect stove settings is some sort of an art form. Well when it's cold outside and your feet are cold I'm not interested in art, I want fire and lots of it.
> 
> I spent a lot of nights feeding mine green wood until I smartened up and planned ahead........now doing this right is truely an art.
> 
> My old neighbor from Canada used to laugh at me cutting and splitting wood tha I planned to bund that winter. He was out there near everyday splitting a little wood at age 70. He always had 2 years worth of stacked and split hardwood outside and one years worth in the barn ready to go. Of course I had a day job, he was retired but something told me he had been doing it this way for many years.



"Firewalker, as a result of last years ice storm, there are alot of downed trees around here.  Probably enough for the next 3 years.  I completely underestimated the amount of wood I was going to burn.  I'd like to have another two cords for this season.  I'll have start the process for the next three years very soon.  I'll separate any oak to dry for at least 2 years.  Should I do the same with maple?"


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## FireWalker (Jan 6, 2010)

The maple will be fine if split when the snow is gone, stack it where it will get mid day sun on the side of your row, cover your rows with sheet metal roofing making sure to weigh the metal down so the wind dosn't blow it off.

If I were you, I would get it all split up and stack it so it's all mixed together, then when you do use it next year when you fill your wood box you should get some of each spicies. One big semi-seasoned oak split in the back of the stove mixed with some birch or maple in the front can be a good way to get a good long burn. As your stove will burn from the front to the back, when the fire reached that big chunk in the back it will be ready to give up all it's btu's.


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## Pine Knot (Jan 6, 2010)

Firerwalker Is right, these stoves will burp smoke out on occasion. I had not connected it to "less than fully seasoned wood".
Since my stove doesnot burp during the cold weather and hot fires I thought the "shoulder season" was to blame. Live and learn.


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## FireWalker (Jan 6, 2010)

Pine Knot said:
			
		

> Firerwalker Is right, these stoves will burp smoke out on occasion. I had not connected it to "less than fully seasoned wood".
> Since my stove doesnot burp during the cold weather and hot fires I thought the "shoulder season" was to blame. Live and learn.



No, you could be right on atmospheric/outdoor conditions, although I found the best way to deal with shoulder season with that stove was to not engage the cat, just get a hot fire going and let it go out. Your right about hot fires in your DW cat, once you try dampering them down for long burns you are asking for trouble (smoke).


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## VCBurner (Jan 7, 2010)

FireWalker said:
			
		

> The maple will be fine if split when the snow is gone, stack it where it will get mid day sun on the side of your row, cover your rows with sheet metal roofing making sure to weigh the metal down so the wind dosn't blow it off.
> 
> If I were you, I would get it all split up and stack it so it's all mixed together, then when you do use it next year when you fill your wood box you should get some of each spicies. One big semi-seasoned oak split in the back of the stove mixed with some birch or maple in the front can be a good way to get a good long burn. As your stove will burn from the front to the back, when the fire reached that big chunk in the back it will be ready to give up all it's btu's.



" I like the tip about the wood placement in the stove.  Makes complete sense!  I'm laid off, so I can start to cut and split one tree/species at a time.  I'll stack them in layers so that it'll be easier to access multiple species at a time.  Starting with the oak.  Getting them out of the woods will not be easy with the snow but it'll get me in shape."


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## FireWalker (Jan 7, 2010)

VCBurner said:
			
		

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I didn't mean to suggest that you sort by species as this would be extra work.......just mix everything up then stack it, when you are bringing in an armload next year just look for second or two for that big piece of oak then mix in some other stuff for your load. When I grab wood off the stack to burn in my next load I'm working off a row that is 14 feet long so I can walk around a little and pick what I want. Usually goes something like this.......one big round for the back, then 2 splits of oak for the middle from over here then one more split of maple from right here and I'm off tho the wood box next to the stove.


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## VCBurner (Jan 7, 2010)

FireWalker said:
			
		

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"Yeah, that sounds easier.  I'll just cut and pile all mixed then stack all mixed.  Just another quick question Firewalker: how much did you heat with the DW and how much wood did you burn?  I started burning in October we had a cold month and a snow storm.  We had 5.25 cords and have gone through 3.71 leaving us with about 1.56 for the rest of the season.  Right now we have two old stoves that don't mind burning some green wood.  OK to burn a cord of green, if I cut and split now and mix with my seasoned mix? I'm heating close to 1,800 ft2 and don't want to burn any oil for heat! Thanks for all your help Firewalker!
Chris"


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## FireWalker (Jan 7, 2010)

1. I thought you ment the wood you were going to cut and split now was going to be for next year not to burn green this winter! Geez.

2. Explain to me how much wood is a cord because if what you are saying is true, you have already used the same amount of wood I use in a whole heating season (we are just coming into the heart of the heating season) and I'm heating roughly the same number of square feet with only one stove.

3. I have tried to heat with geen wood and for me with the stoves I had, well let's just say I burned a lot more oil that year. I would consider mixing in maybe up to 20% green wood if your other wood is truly dry but this is not a great solution. Maybe your old stoves work ok with green wood but mine won't heat worth a darn.

4. My DW and my Equinox seem to use roughly the same amount for the season.......4 cords. I have a strange way of figuring my usage for the year, I start to get comfortable once I exceed 100 feet of wood stacked 4 feet high or roughly 4 cords. My stacks for some reason are 12 feet long down at my wood area. In late fall, I move it all under cover and then rebuild all my stacks with my newly cut and split wood for the next year. My 2 story log home is 2000 sf (not including full basement) is by no means tight, we have some heat loss issues that I am working on. Windy cold nights for us are tough and require extra effort with the stove (a few more splits and a hotter fire). Thank goodness my new stove is up to the challenge, My old DW just reached its limit and that was all it could do. My 1st floor is mostly open and the stove is roughly in the center. I suppliment my wood heat with oil hot water in floor radiant heating and burn through about 350 gallons of oil per year (1 1/2 tank). My basement is unfinished and hovers just above 40 degrees for the coldest part of the winter.


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## Pine Knot (Jan 7, 2010)

I agree with Firewalker's observations.If you are burning less than seasoned wood put it in the back on the bottom with dry on top and in front. It seem to release it's moisture more slowly there and has less of a damping effect on the fire. It will be the last peice to burn and will provide the hot coals used to restart the fire.


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## FireWalker (Jan 7, 2010)

None of this sound like it would work well in a DW cat stove as the OP asked about. You still considering buying the used stove (DW) and using it this season?


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## VCBurner (Jan 7, 2010)

FireWalker said:
			
		

> 1. I thought you ment the wood you were going to cut and split now was going to be for next year not to burn green this winter! Geez.
> 
> 2. Explain to me how much wood is a cord because if what you are saying is true, you have already used the same amount of wood I use in a whole heating season (we are just coming into the heart of the heating season) and I'm heating roughly the same number of square feet with only one stove.
> 
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"I like how you organized your answers so I hope you don't mind me copying this effective method:

1. Yes I was going to cut next year's supply now.  But, as I mentioned, I'm going  through a lot of wood and could run out and will run out before the season ends.  As a result, I may try to use some green to supplement the seasoned wood that's left.  

2. I'm curious to compare our wood consumption. It seems that we may have two different ideas of what a cord is. What I consider a cord is 4 ft wide, 8ft long and 4ft high or 128 cubic feet.  I just multiply the length, width and height  OF THE STACKS to achieve the total cubic feet then divide it by 128 to caculate in cords how much I have. (WIDTH*LENGTH*HEIGHT/128)  You say your stacks are 100 feet and 4 feet high, so I don't understand how you calculate it.  What's the width, length, and height of yous stacks? As I said, my two stoves are old and not efficient.  The Surdiac in the basement throws the most heat and maxes out at 36,000BTU's but only burns for less than 3 hours.  It has a 17"w  by 10"d  by 12"h  firebox or 1.1 cubic feet. It has a broken glass door, bad gaskets and broken thermostat.  If I put new glass, and gaskets it would heat up to 1,600 sq ft. and would last 5 hours on a load.  It's a better coal stove than a wood stove.  The stove upstairs is in the livingroom is an antique camp style box with the two cooking burners on top (pictured in my Avatar).  It is not meant to heat too much more than the livingroom and adjacent halway.  It's not airtight but radiates a lot of heat when hot.  Together they heat 1,760 square feet.  

3. I have heated the house solely on wood this year.  Not a smidge of oil.  We consumed about 30gallons to heat the hot water for showers and sinks.  The house is well insulated.  We lose heat from the windows that are single pane with outside storms.  I don't think I've used too much wood to heat the space, we've had almost 1.5 months of bellow 30 temps.  Some days as low as single digits.  But you could understand why I want a more efficient stove.  I believe with the dutchwest I'll be able to heat the whole season with just over 4 cords.  

4. I have a deposit on the  large Dutchwest.  But have not picked it up yet.  If I do pick it up I will not burn green wood in it this year.  I'm also looking into a better looking/efficiecy stove for the fireplace.  

Thanks again Firewalker, you've given me a lot of usefull information.  Keep on burning!!


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## VCBurner (Jan 7, 2010)

Pine Knot said:
			
		

> I agree with Firewalker's observations.If you are burning less than seasoned wood put it in the back on the bottom with dry on top and in front. It seem to release it's moisture more slowly there and has less of a damping effect on the fire. It will be the last peice to burn and will provide the hot coals used to restart the fire.



"Pine Knot, how much wood have you used this season, so far?  How much space are you heating with your DW large cat again? Would you purchase the same stove again?  "


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## Pine Knot (Jan 7, 2010)

I have used about a third of my well seasoned wood so far. I'm sorry I can't give you a more precise amount, but here on the farm I cut and split until the pile looks about right, then I quit. My house is about an average sized well insulated split level 3 bedroom. It has a heat pump with a constantly running circulating fan. My stove is in the lowest level. The stove keeps the heat pump off until temps. drop below twenty except for early morning hours.
Would I buy the same stove today? As I indicated in my earlier post this stove does things that I like. Steady even heat, After the cat is engaged, very little need to adjust controls, clean, and so far no problems. But this stove seems to have a very bad rep. with many here on this foram, and I think if I was buying a new stove that would have to be considered. 
Besides those Woodstock Fireview's look awfully good


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## VCBurner (Jan 8, 2010)

Pine Knot said:
			
		

> I have used about a third of my well seasoned wood so far. I'm sorry I can't give you a more precise amount, but here on the farm I cut and split until the pile looks about right, then I quit. My house is about an average sized well insulated split level 3 bedroom. It has a heat pump with a constantly running circulating fan. My stove is in the lowest level. The stove keeps the heat pump off until temps. drop below twenty except for early morning hours.
> Would I buy the same stove today? As I indicated in my earlier post this stove does things that I like. Steady even heat, After the cat is engaged, very little need to adjust controls, clean, and so far no problems. But this stove seems to have a very bad rep. with many here on this foram, and I think if I was buying a new stove that would have to be considered.
> Besides those Woodstock Fireview's look awfully good



" Hey Pine Knot, 
  I agree with you about the Woodstock Fireview.  They do sound very nice.  They also cost about $2,400.  I could heat my house with oil for two years for that much.  Burning wood, for me, is about saving money too.
  I've researched this and other sites about the large DW cat and found that very few people have problems with the cat version of the DW. I've also found lots of stove owners who have problems with more reputable stoves. The truth is stoves are not indestructible. Hot fires can do major damage to even to the most durable stoves. It's up to the operator to monitor and learn the proper way to burn in any stove. Most stoves, even new ones, can have problems because of human error. Each stove is individually built and assembled often by a human so they can differ from one another even in the same model. 
Of course, there's always the cat or non cat argument. Some people swear by it, some dislike it. Then, there are those who hate Vermont Castings! I'm not the kind of consumer who turns against a brand as a whole because of hear-say. Almost like people who won't buy Ford because "they are crap," so they swear by Chevy. But you can't possibly say that all Chevy's are better than all Fords. 
I drive a Dodge! But, I may buy a Ford or a Chevy in the future. 
So, to sum things up. I'm going to buy a rebuilt Large Convection Dutchwest Cast Iron Catalytic Wood Stove model 2461. I can't wait to get it home and install that beautiful piece of machinery. Maybe then I can join the rest of the happy Dutchwest owners such as your self. So be a proud DW owner and forget about the chit chat! Thanks for your time. Keep on burnin' "


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## VCBurner (Jan 8, 2010)

VCBurner said:
			
		

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"Oh, Pine Knot, what a beautiful stove you got there!"


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## Pine Knot (Jan 8, 2010)

My comments about the Fireview were more admiration than recommendation.


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## kevinmerchant (Jan 8, 2010)

I am going on my third season with a small dutchwest cat 2460. The only thing I don't like about it is its not the large. I'm heating 2500 + sqft with it plus another smaller avalon insert. Both sit in fireplaces. I find the cat very easy to light off. Have gotten to start as low as 250 degrees reading on the internal temp. Love the side door and ash tray, with going as long as 5 days continues 24/7 burn before dumping ash. Full load - 6hrs with little effort on going again. Top it off ...it was free from a customer of mine and looked like they had less then a handful of fires in it. You say its a rebuild. How much do they want or did you buy it for. If you decide you don't like it I'll trade you my avalon :cheese: .


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## VCBurner (Jan 12, 2010)

Pine Knot said:
			
		

> My comments about the Fireview were more admiration than recommendation.



" I figured as much.  I admire those stoves too.  On a different subject, how's your wood consumption going?  Almost half way through the season and I've gone through 4 cords already(4*4*8) !  I might have to turn to coal if I run out of wood. "


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## VCBurner (Jan 12, 2010)

burn it said:
			
		

> I am going on my third season with a small dutchwest cat 2460. The only thing I don't like about it is its not the large. I'm heating 2500 + sqft with it plus another smaller avalon insert. Both sit in fireplaces. I find the cat very easy to light off. Have gotten to start as low as 250 degrees reading on the internal temp. Love the side door and ash tray, with going as long as 5 days continues 24/7 burn before dumping ash. Full load - 6hrs with little effort on going again. Top it off ...it was free from a customer of mine and looked like they had less then a handful of fires in it. You say its a rebuild. How much do they want or did you buy it for. If you decide you don't like it I'll trade you my avalon :cheese: .


" It sounds like you may need an extra large!!  The guy I'm buying it from has one for sale.  He's asking $900 for a rebuilt extra large Dutchwest cat.  His prices are negotiable but seem somewhat fair for brand new looking stoves.  I looked all over for stoves and was amazed at the quality of work he puts into rebuilding.  He's a stove installer by day so he can get the parts at discount rates.  The stoves are all taken appart and rebuilt with new gaskets and cement.  Some have new parts that needed to be replaced.  So, compared to other stove renovators his prices seem fair.  Can you email me some pics of your avalon?  My name is Chris, my wife is Linda3618@msn.com"


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## VCBurner (Feb 3, 2011)

Just figured I'd touch back and update the topic.  I have started to post all the new developments with the stove on another thread.  
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/53337/
there you will find a more detailed account of what has happened over the last year with this stove.  It has been just a couple of weeks less than a year since I brought the stove and I'm very happy with the performace of this stove.  One thing I've learned about catalytic stoves is that they can be damaged by either overfires or poor quality wood.  The catalyst can be damaged by thermal shock, a result of putting cold or frozen wet wood into a hot firebox with the cat engaged.  The shock created by the quick temperature change can cause the cat to crumble faster than the 6-10 year life expectancy.  Most common substrate in the combustors is ceramic.  The new development in the cat world is a stainless steel cat.  They light up faster (with lower temperatures,) thus increasing the stove's efficiency.  I have a new steel cat arriving soon. 

I had the stove installed in the basement as soon as I got it home.  The end of the last heating season was full of learning experiences for me with the DW.  There were only two of the so called "backpuffs" last year.  The wood I was using was not very well seasoned.  It was ready for this season , but not last year.  I ran out of wood and started burning some of this years supply.  Despite the greenish wood I was able to heat the house beautifully from an unfinished basement.  The total heated space was 1750 sq ft.  The stove is rated to heat up to 1600 sq ft.  Needless to say, I was very pleased with the heat output.  The burn times were also good, especially compared to the old Surdiac's 5 hours between re-loads.  We can easily achieve 9 hours between re-loads with good heat output during the cycle.  I have yet to test this stove in perfect conditions.  The cat was used and needs to be replaced.  The wood is still not as good as it should be.  But the stove is still producing plenty of heat.  I don't understand how people burn these stoves out and warp parts inside of them.  One way I could see this happening is if the operator doesn't have any thermometer on the side door or flue pipe. Downstairs I had a flue pipe thermometer and operated the stove according to those temps.  

The stove has since been brought up to the main floor.  As of November 30th, we have seen a decrease in wood consumption and increase in heat in our main floor!  This came at a price.  We had some downdrafts due to the short chimney and tall pines that surround it.  The downdrafts occured during the December Nor'easter.  Not too often after that, but strong winds can sometimes cause this.  I was aware of this fireplace being fussy with high winds, so I can't blamre the stove for this shortcoming.  I plan on lining the flue and adding a section of class A pipe to the top of the chimney.  I also want to test out a vacu stack to reduce the down draft effect due to the tall trees.  Aside from these few occurances, the stove has more than surprised me with its performence.  The past weeks have brought us temps as low as -14 f. overnight.  The stove kept the house above 68f on an overnight 8-9 hour load.  

My advice to any person looking to buy a stove is this:  never buy a stove that is rated to heat exactly the space you intend to heat with it.  Especially if you intend on heating only with your stove.  You will end up pushing the stove beyond its limits and shortening its life.  Buy a thermometer for your stove, so you know what's going on inside it.  Looks can be deceiving.  If you have a cat and don't have a probe thermometer, get one to see what goes on with the cat temps.  If you want yopur cat stove to last, burn clean dry wood.  If you want to get the proper heat out of any stove, burn clean dry wood.  Asd far as the Dutchwest, I would easily recommend it to anyone.  It is easy to operate and put out lots of heat if you feed it, install it and operate it well

I forgot to mention wood consumption.  We used 7 cords last year with two pre EPA stoves.  This year we will use about 4 cords with the Dutchwest.


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