# Siding options - Carriage barn



## Ashful (Jan 29, 2015)

So, my carriage barn renovation continues, and it's time to think about siding choices.  Here's a photo with the new doors I have chosen PhotoShop'd in place:





Plan is to house wrap over this old vertical 1x12 spruce siding, fur out the wall, and install new wood siding.  Timberframe construction favors vertical furring, and thus horizontal siding, but anything is possible with some work.

I did consider masonry siding (eg. Hardiboard), but the weight made it a less than ideal option for this structure.  I won't consider vinyl or any metal siding.  This is an old barn, next to an old house, it shall remain wood.

Welcoming any ideas for siding type, installation, and even paint scheme.  Current paint color matches shutters and trim on house, so it is a nice tie-in.  However, new doors cannot be painted this siding color, and so will have to remain white if we go with the same color again.


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## ironpony (Jan 30, 2015)

Hate to say it but I like the board and batten on that type structure. A lot of wok for the same look. I think other choices will make it look modern.


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## Ashful (Jan 30, 2015)

No problem. All opinions are valid!  I've never been entirely satisfied that board and batten is weathertight, but given my air space / drainage plane construction plan, that may not be a show stopper.  How do you case windows and doors with b&b siding?


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## dougstove (Jan 31, 2015)

We got vertical vinyl that approximates the board and batten look.


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## Bobbin (Feb 1, 2015)

What about ship lap (I don't object to board and batten, either)?  I love shingles (shakes?) and clapboards but they're labor intensive and that means money; money you may not wish to spend on an "outbuilding".  My brother used masonry siding on his barn.  It was expensive but it looks fabulous... you would never know it was "concrete".  Our barn is shingled.  And it's stained with bleaching oil and silver grey stain.  I wanted it to be red, but rather than "get into it" with the good man I acquiesced.  Since 2007 he's warmed up to the notion of red... when it's time to address it we'll discuss it again.  

I would try to minimize the man door by painting it to blend in with the body of the building.  To my eye, it looks kind of awkward next to the new garage doors (which I like very much!)


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## Ashful (Feb 1, 2015)

Bobbin said:


> What about ship lap (I don't object to board and batten, either)?  I love shingles (shakes?) and clapboards but they're labor intensive and that means money; money you may not wish to spend on an "outbuilding".  My brother used masonry siding on his barn.  It was expensive but it looks fabulous... you would never know it was "concrete".  Our barn is shingled.  And it's stained with bleaching oil and silver grey stain.  I wanted it to be red, but rather than "get into it" with the good man I acquiesced.  Since 2007 he's warmed up to the notion of red... when it's time to address it we'll discuss it again.
> 
> I would try to minimize the man door by painting it to blend in with the body of the building.  To my eye, it looks kind of awkward next to the new garage doors (which I like very much!)


I'm definitely a fan of the masonry siding, as well.  If it weren't so heavy, it would be my first choice for this building.  However, I dislike the idea of hanging that much dead load on the outside of this frame, with marginal framing and a sub-standard footer.  Mind you, I'm not worried about this building going anywhere after 150 years standing, but I'm not looking to test it either.

Current plan is to repaint existing color, as it matches shutters and door frames on the house.  I think it's a nice way to tie the structures, cosmetically, although I could be convinced otherwise.


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## ironpony (Feb 2, 2015)

Joful said:


> No problem. All opinions are valid!  I've never been entirely satisfied that board and batten is weathertight, but given my air space / drainage plane construction plan, that may not be a show stopper.  How do you case windows and doors with b&b siding?







I would say 5/4x6 or maybe 5/4x8 for scale on your barn.


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## Ashful (Feb 2, 2015)

I meant how do you handle overlaps?  I seem to see cases where the battens just tee into the top of the casing, with the casing sitting on top of the base plane of the siding.  Seems like an invitation for water infiltrating the wall.  Then again, I couldn't imagine spacing the casing out on top of the battens, either.

I always figured board and batten was a siding system that worked very well for un-insulated walls, where both sides of sheathing are exposed to uninsulated space, but maybe not for a finished / insulated structure.


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## Dune (Feb 2, 2015)

Joful said:


> I meant how do you handle overlaps?  I seem to see cases where the battens just tee into the top of the casing, with the casing sitting on top of the base plane of the siding.  Seems like an invitation for water infiltrating the wall.  Then again, I couldn't imagine spacing the casing out on top of the battens, either.
> 
> I always figured board and batten was a siding system that worked very well for un-insulated walls, where both sides of sheathing are exposed to uninsulated space, but maybe not for a finished / insulated structure.


I think you figured rightly. Can't go wrong with shingles or shakes (thick shingles). 
Expensive as heck. Don't take well to paint, but solid body stain is a go. 
Personal system; apply several coats cuprinol. Allow a year (at least)  to dry, then follow up with a couple coats of good quality light grey solid body stain. Then forget them for the rest of your life. 

If you go shingles, buy r&r (rebutted and resquared), no knots, white cedar.


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## semipro (Feb 2, 2015)

Our house is covered with beveled Western Red Cedar installed horizontally.  I've been impressed by its durability despite poor maintenance for the first 20 years.
Its light, durable, pest resistant, and relatively sustainable.  It should be installed with air space behind it and the back side should be stained before installation. 
It does need to be re-stained at intervals dependent upon stain quality.


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## Ashful (Feb 2, 2015)

Thanks, guys.  I think I will be using an opaque "stain", which sure looks a lot like "paint" to me, same as what's there now.  This barn is currently a mix of new (1990's) and old (1800's) siding, and the 1998 paint job on the new siding is still holding perfectly.  It's just starting to let go on the old siding, which is admittedly tired wood.


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## Bret Chase (Feb 3, 2015)

ironpony said:


> I would say 5/4x6 or maybe 5/4x8 for scale on your barn.



that would be clunky... and expensive.  to trim out the doors.... 5/4X4 for the jams.... and 5/4X5 for the header


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## Bret Chase (Feb 3, 2015)

Joful said:


> I meant how do you handle overlaps?  I seem to see cases where the battens just tee into the top of the casing, with the casing sitting on top of the base plane of the siding.  Seems like an invitation for water infiltrating the wall.  Then again, I couldn't imagine spacing the casing out on top of the battens, either.
> 
> I always figured board and batten was a siding system that worked very well for un-insulated walls, where both sides of sheathing are exposed to uninsulated space, but maybe not for a finished / insulated structure.



Board and batten was a siding system created by cheap farmers... who wanted to use up slabwood.  it has done the job for a long time... for people who didnt give a crap about air infiltration... 

to get around water.... case the openings first... then flash it, then put your siding on.


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## Ashful (Feb 3, 2015)

I'm still leaning toward horizontal, probably 1x8 (6.5" reveal).  Existing casings are full/rough 1x4 with 1x6 headers, and I think they look pretty good, so I was planning to copy that scale.  Primary factors against the board and batten are weather-tightness / casing, and the fact that one of the corner posts (right front) leans quite badly.  That post has been that way longer than I've been alive, and has been adequately stabilized many years ago, but it is a cosmetic issue with vertical battens, as the run-out is almost the full width of a panel with 1x10 B&B.


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## Bret Chase (Feb 3, 2015)

Joful said:


> I'm still leaning toward horizontal, probably 1x8 (6.5" reveal).  Existing casings are full/rough 1x4 with 1x6 headers, and I think they look pretty good, so I was planning to copy that scale.  Primary factors against the board and batten are weather-tightness / casing, and the fact that one of the corner posts (right front) leans quite badly.  That post has been that way longer than I've been alive, and has been adequately stabilized many years ago, but it is a cosmetic issue with vertical battens, as the run-out is almost the full width of a panel with 1x10 B&B.



this is where skill comes in... and exploiting the human eye.  a few years ago... I re-roofed a very old, historic structure (1710) for the town.  cedar (because pine ones are almost impossible to find) shingles, hand nailed.  anyways... over the last few centuries, the ridge poles started to dive inwards towards the chimney... were talking a good 6 inches.  so what I did was start to "lose" a 1/4 - 3/16" each course... for the last 12 or 13 courses.... it all looks "right" even though it's completely f'd up.... 

bottom line here, is, you could work it so it looked "right"...

as my dad says..... "an old house is a piece of furniture..... put the level away and use your eye"


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## Ashful (Feb 4, 2015)

Good story, and all true, but are you pushing for board and batten on this barn, now?


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## Bret Chase (Feb 4, 2015)

Joful said:


> Good story, and all true, but are you pushing for board and batten on this barn, now?


 
me?

I'd put on the same siding as whatever is on the house...


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## Ashful (Feb 4, 2015)

That would be difficult!    Stone house.


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## Bret Chase (Feb 5, 2015)

I think that either board and batten or clapboards would look nice.

I dont know what was prevalent in your area for the time period. if it was me... Id either use clapboards or shakes (not shingles).  but that is what was common for my area, and both have been on my house over its lifetime.

from a cost perspective, B&B would be cheapest... clapboards would be expensive... and shakes would be OMFG...

but board and batten can be made to work, if that is what you so choose.


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## Ashful (Feb 5, 2015)

I'm sure there was a prevalent style here in the late 18th century, but being as this area went from Dutch to Scottish to English to German, and back again at least three times, you see all styles.  I'm pretty well versed in historic architecture, but not so well that I know what style was dominant for the years my house was built.  I do have some leeway, though, as I think this barn is not as old as the house.  So, an out of date style won't make anyone think twice.

Speaking of shakes, my grandparents lived in an enormous house that was all original shake siding.  Not sure what year the house was built (probably 1880'ish), but it had full/rough 3x12 floor joists, which made me think I could've parked a car in the living room.  I always wondered just how long it took that builder to hand nail what must've been a few acres worth of shakes on that big 3-story house.

_edit:  A quick bit of research shows horizontal 1x6 or 1x8 clapboard as the primary siding of the 1770's, in the mid-Atlantic region.  Not sure if that holds locally (eastern-Euro Mennonite region), but it's true regionally._


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## Bret Chase (Feb 5, 2015)

Joful said:


> I'm sure there was a prevalent style here in the late 18th century, but being as this area went from Dutch to Scottish to English to German, and back again at least three times, you see all styles.  I'm pretty well versed in historic architecture, but not so well that I know what style was dominant for the years my house was built.  I do have some leeway, though, as I think this barn is not as old as the house.  So, an out of date style won't make anyone think twice.
> 
> Speaking of shakes, my grandparents lived in an enormous house that was all original shake siding.  Not sure what year the house was built (probably 1880'ish), but it had full/rough 3x12 floor joists, which made me think I could've parked a car in the living room.  I always wondered just how long it took that builder to hand nail what must've been a few acres worth of shakes on that big 3-story house.
> 
> _edit:  A quick bit of research shows horizontal 1x6 or 1x8 clapboard as the primary siding of the 1770's, in the mid-Atlantic region.  Not sure if that holds locally (eastern-Euro Mennonite region), but it's true regionally._



siding doesn't take that terribly long to do... esp with a shakes 7" or 8" exposure.  labor was cheaper than the nails then... they probably had it done in 2 weeks or less.. a wood shingled roof on the other hand... takes for fricking ever.

I have never *not* hand nailed shingles/shakes/clapboards.  pneumatic staplers/nailers *suck* in this application.


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## Ashful (Feb 5, 2015)

I have a wood shingled roof on this house.  It's now under our standing seam metal roof, still visible in the attic.


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## semipro (Feb 6, 2015)

Bret Chase said:


> I have never *not* hand nailed shingles/shakes/clapboards. pneumatic staplers/nailers *suck* in this application.


Besides you'll want to use stainless or coated fasteners to prevent "bleeding" streaks on the wood. 
I use stainless ring shank nails on the siding and stainless screws on the trim (but agree that the screws may be overkill).


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## semipro (Feb 6, 2015)

I think its a mistake in modern applications to think that siding is for water proofing. 
IMO, siding now primarily functions to protect underlying materials from physical and solar damage, and for decoration.  Modern rain shielding materials installed under the siding now serve as the primary water control structure.


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## timmy55 (Aug 7, 2018)

Ashful said:


> So, my carriage barn renovation continues, and it's time to think about siding choices.  Here's a photo with the new doors I have chosen PhotoShop'd in place:
> 
> View attachment 152051
> 
> ...



The screws might be overkill. I did myself like the cedar ridge siding installed sideways for a more old feel. I got mine installed very nicely from conservation construction, but also there are a lot of different options out there. Metal siding would not be a good choice. But I know some you'd never have to paint again.


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## Ashful (Aug 7, 2018)

Wow... old thread!  Thanks for contributing, but that barn was finished in 2015.


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## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Aug 8, 2018)

Ashful said:


> Wow... old thread!  Thanks for contributing, but that barn was finished in 2015.


Well, in that case, it sounds like it may be time for an update, and/or renovation.  I was thinking, maybe some extra wide, live-edge ash clapboard. I hear your about to have plenty of ash right in your yard.  And, I know you could use a new sawmill to cut it yourself.


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## Ashful (Aug 8, 2018)

ED 3000 said:


> Well, in that case, it sounds like it may be time for an update, and/or renovation.  I was thinking, maybe some extra wide, live-edge ash clapboard. I hear your about to have plenty of ash right in your yard.  And, I know you could use a new sawmill to cut it yourself.


haha!  Actually, I've been treating my ash, the thread you read are on a friend's lot about seven miles up the road, where I get more than half of my firewood.

Here's the finished exterior, before cleaning up the last of the construction stuff in the driveway, to finish out the siding thread.  Interior shots have been posted, elsewhere.


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## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Aug 8, 2018)

Ashful said:


> haha!  Actually, I've been treating my ash, the thread you read are on a friend's lot about seven miles up the road, where I get more than half of my firewood.
> 
> Here's the finished exterior, before cleaning up the last of the construction stuff in the driveway, to finish out the siding thread.  Interior shots have been posted, elsewhere.
> 
> ...


That's a sharp looking outbuilding.  What siding did you eventually go with? Too much effort to go through all your threads to see if you answered that elsewhere (at least at this time of year).

I respect you are fighting the good fight on the ash borer, though futile it may eventually be.  Probably makes a lot of sense compared to a big tree service bill and an overload of wood all at once.

Our newest nemesis is the dreaded spotted lanternfly.  But that's for a different thread.


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## Ashful (Aug 8, 2018)

Yes, lots of lantern fly here.  Battling those eff’ers on the black walnut trees that cover most of my property.

The siding is traditional old 6 inch cedar clapboard, primed on both sides before hanging, and face nailed with stainless ring shanks.  I’m a sucker for high maintenance traditional methods and materials, I guess.


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## semipro (Aug 13, 2018)

@Ashful 
I noticed that the horizontal seams on your metal roofing are aligned rather than staggered.  Was staggering them a consideration? 
I'm designing and soon installing a metal roof on my house and wondered about the advantages of staggered versus aligned seams.


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## Ashful (Aug 13, 2018)

semipro said:


> @Ashful
> I noticed that the horizontal seams on your metal roofing are aligned rather than staggered.  Was staggering them a consideration?
> I'm designing and soon installing a metal roof on my house and wondered about the advantages of staggered versus aligned seams.


That salt-box on the back was added in the 1990’s, to bring the overall depth of the barn to 30 feet.  The original barn was only 20 feet deep, and that single seam you see on the back is where the original roof ends and the new extension was inserted under it.  If you look at that second photo, you can see where the foundation starts for the addition, right at the grass line.  They appear to have just bought more of the same roofing for the addition, and slid it up under the older roofing on the original structure, at that time.

No issues, and they have more than a foot of overlap, probably the result of using standard-length panels without cutting to fit.  If doing new, I’d aim to just buy panels of the right length, or roll on-site.

My house roof is traditional raised seam, made with short panels, and the joints there are staggered.  I think they’re staked to the underlayment at one end only, so the other end (and the joints) can float with thermal expansion.


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## semipro (Aug 13, 2018)

Ashful said:


> That salt-box on the back was added in the 1990’s, to bring the overall depth of the barn to 30 feet.  The original barn was only 20 feet deep, and that single seam you see on the back is where the original roof ends and the new extension was inserted under it.  If you look at that second photo, you can see where the foundation starts for the addition, right at the grass line.  They appear to have just bought more of the same roofing for the addition, and slid it up under the older roofing on the original structure, at that time.
> 
> No issues, and they have more than a foot of overlap, probably the result of using standard-length panels without cutting to fit.  If doing new, I’d aim to just buy panels of the right length, or roll on-site.
> 
> My house roof is traditional raised seam, made with short panels, and the joints there are staggered.  I think they’re staked to the underlayment at one end only, so the other end (and the joints) can float with thermal expansion.


Thanks, good info.  Makes sense.  I plan to use standing seam.  I hadn't thought about thermal expansion specifically at the horizontal seams.


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## Ashful (Aug 13, 2018)

I can tell you that barn roof, which is exposed fastener, groans and creaks a LOT on sunny days.  I hear it heating up all afternoon, and then cooling off thru the evening hours.  Like your stove, you get to know the sounds of it heating and cooling, after awhile.


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## begreen (Aug 13, 2018)

Ashful said:


> I can tell you that barn roof, which is exposed fastener, groans and creaks a LOT on sunny days.  I hear it heating up all afternoon, and then cooling off thru the evening hours.  Like your stove, you get to know the sounds of it heating and cooling, after awhile.


Our greenhouse roof with double-wall polycarbonate does the same thing. It definitely moves when the morning sun warms it up. And when it rains, it sounds like you are in the inside of a drum.


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## semipro (Aug 14, 2018)

Ashful said:


> I can tell you that barn roof, which is exposed fastener, groans and creaks a LOT on sunny days.  I hear it heating up all afternoon, and then cooling off thru the evening hours.  Like your stove, you get to know the sounds of it heating and cooling, after awhile.


We have a pole barn with an exposed fastener metal roof and I know what you're talking about.  It's really something in a hard rain.


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## Ashful (Aug 14, 2018)

semipro said:


> We have a pole barn with an exposed fastener metal roof and I know what you're talking about.  It's really something in a hard rain.



Oh yeah!  Mine is baffled and spray foamed to about 5” depth now, so I don’t hear as much anymore, but it was darn loud when it was just bare metal on purlins.


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