# How to have a Green Lawn in New England? Found an Answer - See pics in last post here!!



## Don2222 (Jul 25, 2011)

Hello

It seems that having a green lawn in Southern NH and New England is not that easy even if you pay for a service.

I do recommend paying for a service since I did that for a year and had excellent results.

However there is alot to learn.

I know fertilizing, Lime and grub treatment here is definitely needed but first I worked out the basics which is Landscape and then type of grass needed.

The sun and shade seems to be a very important factor for the type of grass needed to make the lawn stay green.

My neighbor without changing the trees, totally ripped out her lawn including all the sod and top soil.

Then using 3 sprays of hydro-seed with a NE mix got the type of seed that will work for the landscape.

Basically it is easy to see from the pics that the tall wider blade grass works well in the sun. The thin blade grass seems to grow best in the shade.

In the pic below, the grass under the tree has thin blades and the grass in the sun has the tall thick blades. See close up!

So in my case, I cut down many trees and planted new ones and now the shading has changed alot.

So my question is?
*Without planting a new lawn can over-seeding each year put the right grass type in place?*


If you click on the 1st pic, then you can see the difference in grass type as you go into the sunny area.


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## gpcollen1 (Jul 25, 2011)

Sure, dethatching and over-seeding can work.  You must do it at the right times of the year.  I had to renovate my yard after moving in here 8 yrs ago and have been doing it slowly ever since.  The best seed i have used is Jonathan Green Black Beauty.  A wonderful color and is growing well in both sun and shady areas.  I don't subscribe to fertilizer except for their organic, which I use in getting the lawn established.  After that, i just mulch everything back into my lawn and add a bit of lime once per year.

Problem is - that broad leaf grass will come back not matter what and it thrives when hot and dry and your grass stops growing.  It is part of life...


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## heat seeker (Jul 25, 2011)

I do next to nothing with my lawn, and it looks pretty decent, not perfect by any means. About the only thing I do is mow it as high as the mower will cut. That helps the grass crowd out weeds, and keeps more sun off the soil so it doesn't dry out as fast. I do have ample weeds, but they blend in, and don't thrive all that well with the tall grass for competition.


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## Beardog (Jul 26, 2011)

Looks like crabgrass is moving in on you.  It thrives on heat and comes around when the lawn gets stressed by heat and drier conditions.  Its an annual and putting down a pre emergent will keep the crabgrass seeds from germinating.  I second the Jonathon Green Black Beauty seed.  Pennington is pretty good as well, never had luck with Scotts.  I do use the Scotts 4 step fertilizer program with another shot of turfbuilder with iron thrown in and a grubex application as well.  I also spray the lawn with ortho's lawn weed killer.  Water deeply and infrequently and I keep a pretty dense and green lawn.


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## Don2222 (Jul 26, 2011)

ChocoLab said:
			
		

> Looks like crabgrass is moving in on you.  It thrives on heat and comes around when the lawn gets stressed by heat and drier conditions.  Its an annual and putting down a pre emergent will keep the crabgrass seeds from germinating.  I second the Jonathon Green Black Beauty seed.  Pennington is pretty good as well, never had luck with Scotts.  I do use the Scotts 4 step fertilizer program with another shot of turfbuilder with iron thrown in and a grubex application as well.  I also spray the lawn with ortho's lawn weed killer.  Water deeply and infrequently and I keep a pretty dense and green lawn.



Actually my problem is worse than that.

Below is a picture of a good section next to the burned section. Both sections had been fertilized, Limed, Grub Killer, and fungus treatment!! The burned section used to be in shade under a huge Magnolia tree (30 feet wide and 30 feet high). Now it is in full sun. So my question?

*Is the burned out grass the wrong type for full sun??*

*What is this green grass?*


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## Jags (Jul 26, 2011)

I am thinking of using Weed-N-Feed mixed with diesel.  I would like to turn mine into a nice shade of crunchy brown.  I hate mowing.


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## Adios Pantalones (Jul 26, 2011)

Jags said:
			
		

> I am thinking of using Weed-N-Feed mixed with diesel.  I would like to turn mine into a nice shade of crunchy brown.  I hate mowing.



Just pave.  I'm on well water and a tree hugger (when I'm not cutting them), so no nasty chems here.  I live in S. NH as well, and I like that I don't need to have a pristine lawn here- I like having dandelions that I can feed to my house rabbits.


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## Jags (Jul 26, 2011)

Adios Pantalones said:
			
		

> Just pave.



Probably not an option.  I would have more parking space than Wrigley Field.  Man - I wonder what the cost would be to pave 5 acres? <shudder>

Not trying to go off course of the OP, but I have been thinking of foresting a 2+ acre corner of the yard (NE corner).


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## madrone (Jul 26, 2011)

Jags said:
			
		

> Adios Pantalones said:
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You'd just be trading your mower for a street sweeper.


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## smokinj (Jul 26, 2011)

Rent a aerator this fall do it in 4 direction's with good soil moisture (No later than then mid sept) over seed and lime and starter fertilizer all at the same time.....Stand back and watch!  ;-)


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## gpcollen1 (Jul 26, 2011)

heat seeker said:
			
		

> I do next to nothing with my lawn, and it looks pretty decent, not perfect by any means. About the only thing I do is mow it as high as the mower will cut. That helps the grass crowd out weeds, and keeps more sun off the soil so it doesn't dry out as fast. I do have ample weeds, but they blend in, and don't thrive all that well with the tall grass for competition.



Forgot about cut height: everyone [or their wife] wants the golf course look.  Cut higher than you think in order to keep your grass healthy.  That short cut is just asking for issues; stealing moisture from down near the root zone, allowing sunlight for weed growth...\


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## Adios Pantalones (Jul 26, 2011)

smokinjay said:
			
		

> Rent a aerator this fall do it in 4 direction's with good soil moisture (No later than then mid sept) over seed and lime and starter fertilizer all at the same time.....Stand back and watch!  ;-)



Absolutely.  Aerate, seed, and add compost all at the same time.  Use a plug aerator rather than a spike one.

When I have fertilized- I used bags of rabbit food.  It melts in with the first rain, fertilizes, composts in place, and is slower release than most of the straight chemical stuff (plus, your dog won't grow extra limbs).


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## firefighterjake (Jul 26, 2011)

I've never been caught up in the great lawn deal . . . just regular old grass, clover and a few dandelions in the Spring and things look fine. I mean sure I do get some grass seed to throw down whenever I've had to dig up an area or have brought in dirt to cover an area . . . but other than mowing it . . . well that's about it . . . never felt the need to water, fertilize, etc. just to have a really nice lawn that most folks never truly use.


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## Adios Pantalones (Jul 26, 2011)

firefighterjake said:
			
		

> I've never been caught up in the great lawn deal . . . just regular old grass, clover and a few dandelions in the Spring and things look fine. I mean sure I do get some grass seed to throw down whenever I've had to dig up an area or have brought in dirt to cover an area . . . but other than mowing it . . . well that's about it . . . never felt the need to water, fertilize, etc. just to have a really nice lawn that most folks never truly use.



Grass is the largest crop grown in the US.  More potable water goes on lawns than is used for any other purpose in the burbs.  We water, weed, add chemicals, use a lot of money, cut it, and a lot goes to the dump.  

Higher mowing (as someone stated above) reduces water need, shades out more weeds, and reduces a lot of other issues.  Mulching in place reduces fertilizer need, reduces weeds, and builds better soil.  The thing here is to not let the lawn go too long between mowing- that's when stuff gets smothered.  

Thatch is actually roots and stuff on the surface, not normally grass left in place.  Plug aerating in the fall can greatly reduce the need to de-thatch (in addition to other benefits).

My wife likes a nice lawn, but it aint happening.  Best thing started happening in my side yard- I have wild strawberries taking over!  They stay low and are a great ground cover.

When I plant anything- it's clover or maybe Timothy hay out back.  Clover used to be a common ingredient in lawn seed until new weed killers that also killed clover- then they started advertising "kills weeds like dandelions and clover".  A victim of marketing!   :lol:


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## smokinj (Jul 26, 2011)

I will fight the fight....100 years of a rail road went through the back part...


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## jebatty (Jul 26, 2011)

Why strive for a green lawn? Nothing but work, more work, expense and more expense, and sucks time, money and energy from more useful and rewarding things. Nature does very well when left alone, and lawns are purely creations by humans with way too much free time on their hands. No rant, but our "lawn" remains purely natural, runs along our wood pathway from the garage to the house, a little along the side of the house for a firepit, and a little out front along another path. No dethatching, gets mowed as little as possible, no fertilizer, no collection of clippings, and plenty of margaritas and cool brews. That's time much better spent.


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## smokinj (Jul 26, 2011)

jebatty said:
			
		

> Why strive for a green lawn? Nothing but work, more work, expense and more expense, and sucks time, money and energy from more useful and rewarding things. Nature does very well when left alone, and lawns are purely creations by humans with way too much free time on their hands. No rant, but our "lawn" remains purely natural, runs along our wood pathway from the garage to the house, a little along the side of the house for a firepit, and a little out front along another path. No dethatching, gets mowed as little as possible, no fertilizer, no collection of clippings, and plenty of margaritas and cool brews. That's time much better spent.




Because I like it, very good at it, and made a living at it for 18 years.... ;-) Cost is about 135.00 a year 87,000 sqft.


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## lukem (Jul 26, 2011)

Plant some Zoysia.  That's some serious stuff.  Once you got it, you got it.  Needs only cutting...no chemicals or water for most.


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## smokinj (Jul 26, 2011)

lukem said:
			
		

> Plant some Zoysia.  That's some serious stuff.  Once you got it, you got it.  Needs only cutting...no chemicals or water for most.




But its Brown other than 3 months in Indiana. Thats a Georgia . seed. New Englad would even be worse.


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## lukem (Jul 26, 2011)

smokinjay said:
			
		

> lukem said:
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Oh...that's right...he wanted green.  In that case:

In mid-late September, once things green up after the late summer brown stops and the rain starts again, apply some 2,4-D to burn down the broadleaf weeds.  After a week, plug the yard and overseed...and don't be stingy with the seed.  Fertilize again in late October or early November.

Next spring, apply some pre-emergent crabgrass control.  Also, apply some high nitrogen fertilizer.  About mid-may, hit it with some 2,4-D again.  Mid June hit it with some iron to make it nice and dark green.

Never mow less than 3.25"...which you'll probably have to do 2x week in the spring and fall.


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## fishingpol (Jul 27, 2011)

Don,

Lost of good advice already mentioned.  I have less than a perfect lawn here.  I am strictly organic as there are enough wetlands and rivers  in my area that I will not pollute.  

I have read extensively from websites for improving your lawn.  For a golf course-like lawn, it involves way too many synthetic chemicals and I won't go there.  

I have done the following:

I aerated the lawn 2 ways last spring with a core plugger, and put organic compost down and let the rain wash it in.  It will fill the holes in a matter of a few days and allow you to overseed at the same time.

Put pelletized lime down regardless, we have acidic rain anyways, and the lawn will benefit from it.

Apply corn gluten in the spring before crabgrass seeds develop.  It boosts nitrogen for the grass.  I believe it can be done twice a year.  Corn gluten is an interesting product.  It takes a few years of applications to fully work though.  It is a by-product of making cornmeal and it inhibits the growth of crabgrass seeds.

Use a mulching mower and leave all clippings where they are.

Set mower for 3 inches.  Thicker grass inhibits crabgrass and weed growth.

Mulch leaves in the fall into the grass.  It is great worm food and carbon.

Apply milky spore powder to organically control grubs.  I put it down several years ago, and I don't see grubs when digging.  I believe it is good for 5 years. 

Have your soil tested through the extension at UMASS Amherst.  There is an on-line form you can print and send a sample in for like 10 bucks.  It will tell you what is in you soil so you can ammend as necessary.  Grass needs certain nutrients to survive and if these components are not there, it is a struggle and crabgrass and weeds will take over.

There are other fun projects like making compost tea that I saw on This Old House that I may try.  I have my dirt sample ready to go out this week and amend the soil in a few weeks.  

I will aerate again next year.  It can be surprising how compacted lawns can get to the point water does not permeate down to the roots.

Now if I can only get rid of my lawn violets.  Those are a pain to eradicate.


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## Don2222 (Jul 27, 2011)

fishingpol said:
			
		

> Don,
> 
> Lost of good advice already mentioned.  I have less than a perfect lawn here.  I am strictly organic as there are enough wetlands and rivers  in my area that I will not pollute.
> 
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Thanks Fishinpol for all the Info.

I did aerate with a spike aerator and overseed this past spring but did not get much grass out of 40 lbs of seed!


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## gzecc (Jul 27, 2011)

Don2222 said:
			
		

> fishingpol said:
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Aerating is the spring is probably going to help the weeds proliferate.  Also, spike aerating is promoting soil compaction.  Its best to plug aerate in the fall (weeds aren't growing) and seed for next year at the same time.


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## Adios Pantalones (Jul 27, 2011)

The fall is really the best time to seed.  This spring was OK for it because it was wetter than usual (here).


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## smokinj (Jul 27, 2011)

Don2222 said:
			
		

> fishingpol said:
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Spikes dont count........ ;-)


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## MasterMech (Aug 3, 2011)

Don,

As far as a variety of grass that does well up there in NH, try Perennial Rye. It's what we use on golf course tee's, fairway's, and rough. It's low maint when mowed at 2.75" or higher. And yes, def go down with the seed when you core aerate in the fall around labor day. Rye will love the cooler temps up there, it may stress and brown a little when the temps get over 85 and the soil is dry but it'll bounce back after the first rain shower.

In the spring the northeast needs to extend their crabgrass control later than many areas. Go down with the pre-emergent in early April and don't be afraid to re-apply in the middle of May to extend coverage to end of June.


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## indiana4spartans (Aug 4, 2011)

Don2222 said:
			
		

> ChocoLab said:
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That's not "good, green" grass - that's crabgrass - nasty stuff.  You've gotten good advice so far.  I do a lot of reading at Purdue University's Turf website - great stuff and advice.  Biggest thing is mow high (which your grass looks really short), overseed and fertilize in the fall.  Best time and the grass is storing up energy for winter.  All your major work should happen in the fall.  

With all the crabgrass you have, it's going to take a couple of years to get your lawn back.


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## maverick06 (Aug 4, 2011)

i like the info, definitely have been mowing too low... but still have lots of violets and some other broad leaf stuff.


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## gpcollen1 (Aug 8, 2011)

Have not really mowed my lawn while this thread has been running it's course.  Some spots were fine as the Jona Green stops growing almost completely when this dry but stays green.  As expected, the crab grass has tried to take over.  i spent a bunch of time weeding prior to mowing.  Got a half-dozen buckets of crab grass gone before I gave up.  ill need to do more of it before I over seed in the fall.  For now the weeding and a mowing will be fine.  After the mow the lawn looked great - left it nice and high.  It even gave me a better shot at some more weeds - 2 more buckets.  Good thing i got the outdoor speakers in this spring.  Still cannot believe how that crab grass can creep into your lawn so fast this time of year.  It even creeps into the shrubs with lightning speed...

The rain finally came Saturday night and rained all night.  Hope we get some more so my transplanted ferns stay healthy...


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## smokinj (Aug 8, 2011)

CTwoodburner said:
			
		

> Have not really mowed my lawn while this thread has been running it's course.  Some spots were fine as the Jona Green stops growing almost completely when this dry but stays green.  As expected, the crab grass has tried to take over.  i spent a bunch of time weeding prior to mowing.  Got a half-dozen buckets of crab grass gone before I gave up.  ill need to do more of it before I over seed in the fall.  For now the weeding and a mowing will be fine.  After the mow the lawn looked great - left it nice and high.  It even gave me a better shot at some more weeds - 2 more buckets.  Good thing i got the outdoor speakers in this spring.  Still cannot believe how that crab grass can creep into your lawn so fast this time of year.  It even creeps into the shrubs with lightning speed...
> 
> The rain finally came Saturday night and rained all night.  Hope we get some more so my transplanted ferns stay healthy...



First forst and its all dead. This is the window of opportunity..... ;-)


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## SmokeyTheBear (Aug 9, 2011)

fishingpol said:
			
		

> Don,
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Milky spore goes dormant when it can't grow and reproduce in grubs and will last longer than 5 years it also takes time to get established.  I put it down here in 2008 and there have been fewer grubs each year.

If your neighbors don't treat their area you'll likely never get the grub population so low that the bacteria goes dormant.


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## flyingcow (Aug 9, 2011)

You want a green lawn in New England? Move up here. Damn thing won't stop growing. I have a lawn like FFJ.  But the good part about up living up here? You got 2 months of mowing, than get the frost hits....here comes winter. You do consider us up here part of New England?


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## firefighterjake (Aug 10, 2011)

flyingcow said:
			
		

> You want a green lawn in New England? Move up here. Damn thing won't stop growing. I have a lawn like FFJ.  But the good part about up living up here? You got 2 months of mowing, than get the frost hits....here comes winter. You do consider us up here part of New England?



You guys also keep getting hit with every possible rain storm . . . I lucked out when I went up to PI a few weeks back . . . I think I had one of the few rain-free and storm-free weekends.

And no . . . The County is not part of New England . . . it's Heaven's DoorStep.


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## Don2222 (Aug 13, 2011)

Hello

Well I finally found the best way to NATURALLY push the crab grass out!!

Our front lawn faces the west and gets that harsh afternoon setting sun and the crab grass loves it

So, I planted MAPLE trees near the street in a row where the crab grass likes to grow!!

Guess what??

As you can see in the pics, the rounded area shaded by the trees is the good grass.

The yellow arrows show as the trees get larger, they are automatically pushing the crab grass out LUV it!!

Only took 20 years to cut the Crabs, Pines, Oaks, and Magnolia down and plant the Maples to plan this out but never too late!!

Click pic to enlarge and click again.


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## webbie (Aug 15, 2011)

With the amount of rain we've gotten this year, green is a snap! We have very poor sandy soil on a plain ole suburban acre. It was pretty much bare when we moved into our new house. We have strived to remove as much lawn as possible from the sunny areas, instead using mulch with hard plantings. The grass in the shade needs very little help. 

I heard an interesting podcast the other day by another new englander. He recently wrote a book about how the landscape of America was changed, mostly by accident, by the stuff that Europeans brought here. He said he was at his local garden center and got mad about the lack of "local" plants they had....then he remembered the research he was doing and understood that not a SINGLE one of the plants he was calling "local" was truly local. All were from Europe! We've already remade the world...almost by accident.

As one obvious example, when Columbus and other came this was there were no earthworms in N. America! That's a pretty big deal...

Anyway, we've taken our lawn down from 20,000 sq. ft. to 12,000, which makes it much easier to keep under control. 

I think sun is the biggest enemy!


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## Don2222 (Aug 15, 2011)

Webmaster said:
			
		

> With the amount of rain we've gotten this year, green is a snap! We have very poor sandy soil on a plain ole suburban acre. It was pretty much bare when we moved into our new house. We have strived to remove as much lawn as possible from the sunny areas, instead using mulch with hard plantings. The grass in the shade needs very little help.
> 
> I heard an interesting podcast the other day by another new englander. He recently wrote a book about how the landscape of America was changed, mostly by accident, by the stuff that Europeans brought here. He said he was at his local garden center and got mad about the lack of "local" plants they had....then he remembered the research he was doing and understood that not a SINGLE one of the plants he was calling "local" was truly local. All were from Europe! We've already remade the world...almost by accident.
> 
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Good Idea Craig
Interesting how we both have poor sandy soil. In the sun that soil luvs crab grass and visa versa! LOL
Well, I like your idea of the plantings, but the weeds must still try hard to get in there?


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## webbie (Aug 15, 2011)

Ah, weeds. Lots of mulch helps. Bad soil underneath helps...not as fertile for weeks.
And once or twice a summer, Martha patrols with the weed killer sprayer and makes certain they don't take over....

It's much easier to see, pull, kill and otherwise take care of weeks when they are in mulch...as opposed to mixed in with the grass.


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## gpcollen1 (Aug 16, 2011)

Agreed on the weed patrols but i just pull them.  i recruited the wife to do a weed annihilation last year and we mulched the heck out of everything.  this year we saved some $$ and skipped mulch but i have been pulling weeds a few times a week and that has done well.  Going to use some mulch this fall and then some more in spring.  

One way to keep weeds out of beds is to make the beds thick.  The only one i do this with is my Fern beds but i may start crowding stuff in a bit more moving forward...


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## kingston73 (Aug 21, 2011)

firefighterjake said:
			
		

> I've never been caught up in the great lawn deal . . . just regular old grass, clover and a few dandelions in the Spring and things look fine. I mean sure I do get some grass seed to throw down whenever I've had to dig up an area or have brought in dirt to cover an area . . . but other than mowing it . . . well that's about it . . . never felt the need to water, fertilize, etc. just to have a really nice lawn that most folks never truly use.



My thoughts exactly.  My neighbor does it all, water sprinklers, fertilizer, etc and even gets on his knees sometimes to trim parts with a pair of scissors.  Me, I'll cut it when it gets above my ankles, looks just fine.  My wife actually likes the small little flowers and clover and all the rest of the non-grass green stuff that grows in our yard.  I think those GreenThumb type businesses are the biggest waste of time and money out there.


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