# I hate seasoning oak thread!



## rdust (Jul 27, 2013)

I haven't made this one in a while but I still HATE seasoning oak! I just got done moving some red oak that I cut in Nov. of 2010, split in Jan of 2011 stacked it in the spring of 2011. I had it on pallets with ash making one row and the oak making the other with a 16" gap between rows. The ash is pretty much good to go and the oak is still in the 30's on the bigger pieces!(which are what I consider medium, nothing bigger than 6 inches across) 

I have absolutely no idea how the guys who season in cubes ever get oak to to season. These were my last double rows, I've been moving everything to single rows with 6' or so between them. This is one of the main reasons why.  I don't need this wood this year so it's not a big deal just irritating that after two + years it's still no better than fresh split ash.  Too bad all the ash will soon be gone around here. 

Attached a picture of the stacks from last year...


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## Woody Stover (Jul 27, 2013)

Man, I don't like to hear _that_, especially with the dry summer we had last year. I have a bunch of Oak stacked double-row from early to mid-2012. I was kinda hoping it would be ready for 2014. The White Oak was pretty wet, some of it fresh from a blow-down. The Red was dead. Some of that Oak is split about like yours, 6" on the biggest ones. Now, some that my SIL scrounged at the same time was already split, smaller, and I was looking at it today. The single-row appears it will be good this winter, or at least decent. Didn't check the double-row over there today. I may have to stick with smaller splits on the Oak until I am _way_ ahead, but at least the Oak I'm stacking now is dead and starting in the 30s. I think I'd better stack more dead Ash, pronto....


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## gzecc (Jul 27, 2013)

Oak is a pita. I stay away from it unless it is literally dropped in my yard. IMO, it needs two yrs in the sun and single rows with at least 3' between.


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## BrotherBart (Jul 27, 2013)

I love seasoning oak. I better. If I didn't I would get mighty cold in the winter. I did get a bad surprise in May when I went to move this seasons oak into the shed. Center row for some reason was kinda wet. Leaking top cover. Put it in the shed with the black rubber roof and the solar attic fan blowing into it while the sun shines and hoping for the best. There are two months of bone dry stuff in front of the shed before I get to that stuff. But man it is ugly looking. What summer doesn't do the low humidity of winter and that fan should get done.


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## oppirs (Jul 27, 2013)

I have found my oak (swamp) to be dry in two years.  But I do have hot/sunny and windy condition for the stacks.


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## Woody Stover (Jul 27, 2013)

Damn, I was counting on that double-row Oak over at my SIL's this winter. I'd better pull some splits and meter 'em. I may have to drag it up out of the woods and single row it where's there's more air, while there's still some summer left. I was hoping to take that stuff straight to the on-deck circle over there. I still have some soft Maple to scrounge but that would be mid-winter stuff at best. I've still got everyone covered but it might mean hauling split wood from here. I'm trying to avoid moving wood around. 

I'm hoping this is more of a MI issue than a southern IN issue. Been mighty wet here most of the summer, though.


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## oppirs (Jul 27, 2013)

Wet Understatement. Same here rain-wise 5" in 4 hours one day. Poor farmers sticking with corn, soybeans look good tho.


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## rdust (Jul 27, 2013)

Woody Stover said:


> I'm hoping this is more of a MI issue than a southern IN issue. Been mighty wet here most of the summer, though.


 
It's really multiple reasons, the area the wood is stacked in is a little lower than the area around so it gets less wind,(full sun) stacking just on pallets still lets a lot of moisture out of the ground and into the lower splits.  I stacked two other cords on pallets the same as the oak/ash stack but put plastic down first, that seemed to help with ground moisture so I'm hoping those do better.  I'm in the process of changing those pallet rows over to rows like the other rows pictured(the cinder block stacks).  I'm giving that area one last chance before starting over somewhere else!


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## HDRock (Jul 27, 2013)

I just started out last year, from reading all the info on here ,I decided I am going to stack my Oak and Hickory with this set up, single rows,
will be much longer than pic though


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## Woody Stover (Jul 27, 2013)

rdust said:


> I'm in the process of changing those pallet rows over to rows like the other rows pictured(the cinder block stacks).


Serious air under those blocks, for sure!


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## HDRock (Jul 27, 2013)

Woody Stover said:


> Serious air under those blocks, for sure!


Oh  I didn't see those back there in the pic before
Edit, I should clean the Bifocles


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## weatherguy (Jul 28, 2013)

There's a lot of factors involved, climate in your location, where its stacked, how its stacked, weather, my oak usually get down to 20-25% after two years, some I burn but I like to let it season three ideally. If you have room its not a problem, its a problem if you can only fit 8-10 cords on your property, then you don't want oak taking up too much space. Nothing wrong with ash, seasons much quicker and burns nice.


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## Mr A (Jul 28, 2013)

I pulled this oak out of the creek. It was a few fallen trees in whole logs. It was bone dry the day I found it. It must have been there a while.


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## Paulywalnut (Jul 28, 2013)

I think if you can ever get 2-3 years ahead, then Oak is a great choice, Every year there is seasoned oak ready.
I know its difficult for some to stack that much cord wood on their property. Slice it thinner.


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## swagler85 (Jul 28, 2013)

It's worth the wait


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## HDRock (Jul 28, 2013)

Paulywalnut said:


> Slice it thinner.


As need be ,if U need it 3, 4"


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## Paulywalnut (Jul 28, 2013)

swagler85 said:


> It's worth the wait


Yep, Definitely a great addition to the supply. I like to mix it. Locust will burn good thrown on top of a good oak base.


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## Woody Stover (Jul 28, 2013)

weatherguy said:


> Nothing wrong with ash, seasons much quicker and burns nice.


Doesn't burn as nice as Oak, though.


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## Augie (Jul 28, 2013)

So I have Oak and altoho it is nice I get good 10 hr burns about of a fully loaded Stove and Maple. Load to 250 stove top temp Reload. 

10 hrs is more than enough to keep me busy, if Im away from the house more than 10 hrs the house will be a little colder when I return, Ill burn whatever is dry and not worry about it. 

If Oak seasoning is an issue build a solar kiln in a sunny spot. I did and in 90 days I have some oak below 20% already(started at 45%+). Some Plastic and a simple frame out of scrap lumber I had around the house was all I needed. I can fit about 1 cord in my simple rig. Ill prob be doing this just about every year now that I know how. It allows me to keep longer seasoning wood in the limited area I have for storage.


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## Woody Stover (Jul 28, 2013)

Augie said:


> So I have Oak and altoho it is nice I get good 10 hr burns about of a fully loaded Stove and Maple.


Hard Maple is the BTU equal of Red Oak....


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## ScotO (Jul 28, 2013)

Lkie pauly said, make your oak splits smaller!  All of my oak is split around 4-5", some even smaller, and I stack in cubes.  I have NEVER had a problem burning 3 year oak, EVER.  The bigger the oak splits, the longer it's gonna take.

I also have my stack top-covered with black rubber roofing and let me tell ya, that definitely heats the stack up.  And heat helps the seasoning process big time.....


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## rdust (Jul 28, 2013)

Paulywalnut said:


> I think if you can ever get 2-3 years ahead, then Oak is a great choice, Every year there is seasoned oak ready. I know its difficult for some to stack that much cord wood on their property. Slice it thinner.


 
I've been 3 years ahead for a long while(more like 4). Red oak up to this point just hasn't been worth the wait. I guess I could make all of it into kindling and it would be ready in two years. 



swagler85 said:


> It's worth the wait


 
It burns nice but has never "wowed" me. Almost any other wood is good in one full year and this oak I have right now will be 36 months since split this winter and still won't be ready.



HDRock said:


> As need be ,if U need it 3, 4"


 
May as well make it kindling at that point. 



Woody Stover said:


> Doesn't burn as nice as Oak, though.


 
I've actually never noticed much trade off between oak and ash. I'd take ash any day of the week over red oak. I put white oak over ash, it season easier than the red oak around here though.  Of course I have a Blaze King so any decent hardwood burns great.  


I just stacked 2+ cords of red oak that I split on the bigger side(8x8 squares). I figure I won't be able to touch that stuff for 4 years. I'll check it after 3 and probably make a thread like this again complaining about it.


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## Paulywalnut (Jul 28, 2013)

Yes it's mainly the red oak that still has a sizzle to it after even 3 years.


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## Applesister (Jul 28, 2013)

I try to keep my oak seperate from the rest of my firewood and try to put it out of my thoughts. Like that 100.00 bill I have stashed in my truck glove box. Out of sight...out of mind.


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## Backwoods Savage (Jul 28, 2013)

Oldspark will no doubt jump on this with both feet. 

Today I stacked a little bit of oak (yes, I'm late this year). Working on the second row and yes, they are right together. I'll probably stack as I have been lately with 3 rows together. I seem to have no problem doing this and sometimes I wonder if perhaps being on sandy ground makes more of a difference than what I thought. For sure the wood will dry better on sandy ground than on clay, especially in a wet year.

The wood on the bottom of the pile is definitely wet! It has been laying there for a few months. I just stick it into the stack and it will be fine. I started stacking from the far end of this pile.


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## HDRock (Jul 28, 2013)

Backwoods Savage said:


> I wonder if perhaps being on sandy ground makes more of a difference than what I thought. For sure the wood will dry better on sandy ground than on clay, especially in a wet year.


I never thought about it, but that's something ,I should probably consider because It's clay here


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## Pallet Pete (Jul 28, 2013)

HDRock said:


> I just started out last year, from reading all the info on here ,I decided I am going to stack my Oak and Hickory with this set up, single rows,
> will be much longer than pic though
> 
> View attachment 107125


Those pallets look strangely familiar !

Pete


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## HDRock (Jul 28, 2013)

Pallet Pete said:


> Those pallets look strangely familiar !
> 
> Pete


Yes sir re, those are the ones U gave me, I have 27ft of double row dead ash stacked on them babies so far   And some keeping rounds off da ground


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## Pallet Pete (Jul 28, 2013)

HDRock said:


> Yes sir re, those are the ones U gave me, I have 27ft of double row dead ash stacked on them babies so far   And some keeping rounds off da ground



Got more if you want em too ! 

Pete


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## oldspark (Jul 28, 2013)

Two summers and my Bur Oak is below 20%.


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## HDRock (Jul 28, 2013)

Pallet Pete said:


> Got more if you want em too !
> 
> Pete


Thanks Pete
I'll let ya know if _I do _


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## Woody Stover (Jul 30, 2013)

Woody Stover said:


> Damn, I was counting on that double-row Oak over at my SIL's this winter. I'd better pull some splits and meter 'em. I may have to drag it up out of the woods and single row it where's there's more air,


To follow up, I went over there, prepared to move a row up, but first I started digging around in the stack a little bit. That stuff is dry and ready to go.  I didn't meter it but it was nice and light (for Red Oak.) So I'm hoping I live in the land of two-year Oak, if it's not split bigger than about 5". This was stacked Jan 2012, but there's an unknown. SIL scrounged it and it was already split, but I don't know how long for. Maybe a few months max, because I remember that when we picked it up it was heavy and looked pretty fresh.


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## USMC80 (Jul 30, 2013)

I get away with two years for Oak


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## tomc585 (Jul 30, 2013)

I've been successful at seasoning oak (that's been suitable for burning) in about 16 months. Most of what I have been burning is no less than 2 1/2 years. If I store it longer I run into a problem with lichen growth due to the limited space I have in open areas.

But nothing beats burning well seasoned oak so its worth the wait.....except natural gas but it's 200' away from my house.


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## Todd (Jul 30, 2013)

I fill my shed with 2 years worth of mostly Red and White Oak and it is all usually under 20% moisture by the time it sees the stove. I do run into an occasional sizzler if its a larger round or split.


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## iceman (Jul 30, 2013)

I hate seasoning oak and just got burned! 
2 cord of debarked oak that sat on the deck for a year log length.... 
Guess what ... Its not even starting to cheek on the sides at all!
Hopefully this will be ready by Dec/jan
But for those of you who really need your oak to season, here is what I do...
I stack it in 3 rows each box fan width apart... Put whatever you choose on top to cover and turn on 2 box fans couple hrs a day when you can remember (timer works best) and bam! Dry wood... You might notice 2-3 bucks more electricity a month... This is what I learned to do when in a hurry. Also, during the winter I bring in a week's worth so the dry air and fan speed it up .. then I put the next load close to the stove but far enough away and after 10 hrs its fine ... Seems like a lot but its really not.  Or put a cord in a garage and put a fan on it it all works


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## PapaDave (Jul 30, 2013)

rdust said:


> Almost any other wood is good in one full year and this oak I have right now will be 36 months since split this winter and still won't be ready.


 
You're doing it wrong.


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## PapaDave (Jul 30, 2013)

iceman said:


> 2 cord of debarked oak that sat on the deck for a year log length.... Guess what ... Its not even starting to cheek on the sides at all!


 
You're doing it wrong.


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## blwncrewchief (Jul 30, 2013)

PapaDave said:


> You're doing it wrong.


 

Really. You want to show us how it's done then.

I have some white oak at 39 months that is 23-25%. Stacked single row and 5-8" splits.

Now I also have some white oak from a different tree at 22 months that is 19-22% stacked 20 feet away. Same size, same stacking, same exposure.


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## HDRock (Jul 30, 2013)

Just busted open some 25in white oak rounds today, I picked up in May , was  felled a couple years ago, It's 25 to 30% inside.
_*What MC does green fresh oak start out at ??*_


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## HDRock (Jul 30, 2013)

iceman said:


> I hate seasoning oak and just got burned!
> 2 cord of debarked oak that sat on the deck for a year log length....
> Guess what ... Its not even starting to cheek on the sides at all!
> Hopefully this will be ready by Dec/jan
> ...


How do U keep the electrical, safe from water, cords, fans ??


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## iceman (Jul 30, 2013)

Cover the wood with plywood etc the fans are 1-2 feet in using outdoor ext cords and Xmas timers
I only do this when I get pressed to get it seasoned in time .... Like this year LOL


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## rdust (Jul 30, 2013)

PapaDave said:


> You're doing it wrong.


 
Obviously I'm doing it wrong!  I'm in the process of changing my stacks around for one "last" time. No more double rows single from here on out. If this doesn't help I've got nothing!


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## PapaDave (Jul 30, 2013)

Yeah, I knew you're working on it.
Takes time.
I'm glad you took that in the spirit it was typed.


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## HDRock (Jul 31, 2013)

Some good Info for ya
Live Oak
Moisture Content and Wood Shrinkage


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## HDRock (Jul 31, 2013)

iceman said:


> Cover the wood with plywood etc the fans are 1-2 feet in using outdoor ext cords and Xmas timers
> I only do this when I get pressed to get it seasoned in time .... Like this year LOL


Do U use a GFI on the set up ??


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## iceman (Jul 31, 2013)

Never thought of using one! That a good idea though but I do believe that the winter outdoor timer does have a reset button on it. That would make it a one I suppose.. I better look into it.
I don't run these everyday, I try to do it on days its dry with low depoints and humidity to speed up drying


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## Jon1270 (Jul 31, 2013)

HDRock said:


> _What MC does green fresh oak start out at ??_


 
I've oven-dried samples of two oaks within a couple of hours of when the trees were taken down, so I could calculate initial moisture content.  The red oak was 79% (dry basis) and the white oak was 80%.

I've been tracking the drying of some splits from those same trees, along with some mulberry and elm.  One thing the experiment seems to be teaching me is that top-covering is important (or at least helpful) in even a moderately rainy climate.  Rain didn't have much effect on the drying process during the first couple of months after a tree was cut, when the wood was very wet anyhow.  But the drier the wood gets, the more effect rain has on it.  All of my samples, which are sitting out on top of a stack in a sunny spot, exposed to both rain and sun, are slightly wetter now than they were two weeks ago, despite high summer temps, because periodic wetting has erased any gains.


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## oldspark (Jul 31, 2013)

Are you splitting the wood and testing a fresh split after it rains, usually the moisture from a rain is just a short distance in the split of wood.


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## Jon1270 (Jul 31, 2013)

oldspark said:


> Are you splitting the wood and testing a fresh split after it rains, usually the moisture from a rain is just a short distance in the split of wood.


 
No, these tests are all by weight so they are measuring the average MC, not the spot MC at the surface or interior.  You're right that the surface moisture dries off fairly quickly (within a few sunny days) but that hasn't been fast enough this summer, since it's been raining so frequently.


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## georgepds (Jul 31, 2013)

Y'll got me worried about seasoning Oak. This year, the guy who cut split and delivered it called it Oak and Maple (I can't tell by the bark, but I can tell it's not evergreen). I buy green in early April and let it sit in the sun until November (16" length, North/South single row elevated 6",sandy ground on one side, asphalt on the  other, no foliage, no shade, windy, nearest object is 20 feet to either side, ... this row is very sunny and exposed). It has always worked for me, but I thought hey, maybe I was wrong, maybe I just don't know what seasoned wood is.

I went out an bought a wood moisture meter from Harbor freight, and tested some splits ( ones with 4 months in the sun)... Ends were ~10% , middle was about ~20%. I'm reminded of the guy who,when caught in flagrant dilecto by his wife, defended his fidelity with the comment " who you going to belive, me or your own lying eyes"

So there are many possibilities

1) I used the meter wrong and y'all are right
2) I used the meter right it ,but it reads wrong, and y'all are right
3) the meter reads correctly, and I have to believe my own lying eyes

Maybe it's the wind.. I'm on a barrier island and the breezes are great


Since the meter is in question, I'm thinking of a bake test.. weigh the splits before, and the cook them at 350 for 30 minutes, and weigh again, attribute the difference to moisture. Sounds like good science, but I'm afraid my wife would call for the guys in the white coats. While I was testing last night she asked:"Do you know what the measurement  is supposed to be?" I looked cross-eyed at her and she answered her own question; "of course you do, whaddaya call it.. heat.com,  heart.com?"


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## georgepds (Jul 31, 2013)

Scotty Overkill said:


> ...I also have my stack top-covered with black rubber roofing and let me tell ya, that definitely heats the stack up. And heat helps the seasoning process big time.....


 
can you recommend a brand of black rubber roofing.. How does it hold up to tears?


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## PapaDave (Jul 31, 2013)

George, did you resplit the splits when you checked?


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## rdust (Jul 31, 2013)

georgepds said:


> Y'll got me worried about seasoning Oak. This year, the guy who cut split and delivered it called it Oak and Maple (I can't tell by the bark, but I can tell it's not evergreen). I buy green in early April and let it sit in the sun until November (16" length, North/South single row elevated 6",sandy ground on one side, asphalt on the other, no foliage, no shade, windy, nearest object is 20 feet to either side, ... this row is very sunny and exposed). It has always worked for me, but I thought hey, maybe I was wrong, maybe I just don't know what seasoned wood is.
> 
> I went out an bought a wood moisture meter from Harbor freight, and tested some splits ( ones with 4 months in the sun)... Ends were ~10% , middle was about ~20%. I'm reminded of the guy who,when caught in flagrant dilecto by his wife, defended his fidelity with the comment " who you going to belive, me or your own lying eyes"
> 
> ...


 
Different environment different results, I say it's completely possible.  It sounds like you have ideal conditions.  We've had a wide range of results posted over the years on wood drying times.


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## Jon1270 (Jul 31, 2013)

georgepds said:


> Since the meter is in question, I'm thinking of a bake test.. weigh the splits before, and the cook them at 350 for 30 minutes, and weigh again, attribute the difference to moisture.


 
Oven-drying to check MC has to be done at lower temperatures, and takes much longer.  At 350F you'll be vaporizing more than water.  The right way to do this is to take a thin slice, an inch or so thick across the grain, and bake it at around 250F for 24 hours.  You'll need a fairly precise scale, e.g. accurate to the gram.


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## georgepds (Jul 31, 2013)

PapaDave said:


> George, did you resplit the splits when you checked?


 
No I did not.. that will have to wait for the weekend.

--G


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## rdust (Jul 31, 2013)

georgepds said:


> No I did not.. that will have to wait for the weekend.
> 
> --G


 
Report those results, there is a great likelihood that they will be much different.


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## Woody Stover (Jul 31, 2013)

georgepds said:


> can you recommend a brand of black rubber roofing.. How does it hold up to tears?


I think Scotty uses stuff that he salvaged from a tear-off/re-roof. That stuff is _tough_.I need to contact a roofer and get some of that. I've been using some rubber-backed floor mats but I'm running low. Either that or get some scrapped metal roofing....


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## Backwoods Savage (Jul 31, 2013)

Scott does get rubber roofing that is salvaged. Others on the forum also use it. I used it only once so far and it works well. But fortunately I also have old galvanized roofing and I like it much better. In fact, tomorrow I'm getting some more old roofing so that will really put me in good shape. If memory serves me, I'll also get some pictures....


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## SolarAndWood (Aug 3, 2013)

DEC just announced they have found EAB locally.  Think my 2011 Oak score will be dry by the time the Ash runs out?


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## rdust (Aug 3, 2013)

SolarAndWood said:


> DEC just announced they have found EAB locally. Think my 2011 Oak score will be dry by the time the Ash runs out?


 
I remember when you split those big chunks, how is the one you were weighing doing?


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## SolarAndWood (Aug 3, 2013)

Would you believe it's now down to 29 lbs?  I guess that means the 1000 lb rounds I rolled up onto the splitter had 500 lbs of water in em


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## Woody Stover (Aug 3, 2013)

rdust said:


> I remember when you split those big chunks


That's why he needed the backhoe. Heh-heh.


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## SolarAndWood (Aug 3, 2013)

I wish there was some way I could have used it...those things were heavy.


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## Dogbyte (Aug 3, 2013)

georgepds said:


> Y'll got me worried about seasoning Oak. This year, the guy who cut split and delivered it called it Oak and Maple (I can't tell by the bark, but I can tell it's not evergreen). I buy green in early April and let it sit in the sun until November (16" length, North/South single row elevated 6",sandy ground on one side, asphalt on the  other, no foliage, no shade, windy, nearest object is 20 feet to either side, ... this row is very sunny and exposed). It has always worked for me, but I thought hey, maybe I was wrong, maybe I just don't know what seasoned wood is.
> 
> I went out an bought a wood moisture meter from Harbor freight, and tested some splits ( ones with 4 months in the sun)... Ends were ~10% , middle was about ~20%. I'm reminded of the guy who,when caught in flagrant dilecto by his wife, defended his fidelity with the comment " who you going to belive, me or your own lying eyes"
> 
> ...




I would consider the 4th option.  That you can't accurately test a hunk of wood with harbor freight quality testers.  In fact any economy tester that doesn't measure electrical resistance across probes driven at least a fifth the depth of the thickness isn't giving you anything other than a surface reading.


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## BrotherBart (Aug 3, 2013)

georgepds said:


> Since the meter is in question, I'm thinking of a bake test.. weigh the splits before, and the cook them at 350 for 30 minutes, and weigh again, attribute the difference to moisture. Sounds like good science, but I'm afraid my wife would call for the guys in the white coats. While I was testing last night she asked:"Do you know what the measurement is supposed to be?" I looked cross-eyed at her and she answered her own question; "of course you do, whaddaya call it.. heat.com, heart.com?"


 
Key is does "middle" mean the fresh face of a re-split piece?

HF moisture meters work just fine. I have used two of them for years. Tested them against the mega-bucks one my woodworking neighbor has.


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## HDRock (Aug 3, 2013)

Dogbyte said:


> I would consider the 4th option. That you can't accurately test a hunk of wood with harbor freight quality testers. In fact any economy tester that doesn't measure electrical resistance across probes driven at least a fifth the depth of the thickness isn't giving you anything other than a surface reading.


The Harbor Freight Meter is accurate enough for firewood, to tell U what U need to know, as long as U , split n check ,right then n there, smack in the middle


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## NortheastAl (Aug 3, 2013)

SolarAndWood said:


> DEC just announced they have found EAB locally.  Think my 2011 Oak score will be dry by the time the Ash runs out?


That does not bode well for us in the southeastern part of the state. Last year they had the traps out, but haven't seen any this year. Gotta be a way to stop these destructive bugs from wiping out host trees.


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## Dogbyte (Aug 4, 2013)

HDRock said:


> The Harbor Freight Meter is accurate enough for firewood, to tell U what U need to know, as long as U , split n check ,right then n there, smack in the middle


 
Well i beg your pardon,  a surface reading is also not where you measure impedance. i can dry a piece of osage in my kiln down below 7% and those cheap off the shelf meters are no where close. those moisture meters are meant for powders and other material that you can push the probes down inside. not just the surface of wood. There are various oven-dry methods and distillation methods that produce real results that these hand held meters, and even moe expensive equipment are attempting to estimate. for wood, i just wouldnt trust one down to the levels ive been reading about here. There is a reason kiln operators have really expensive devices meant for this, where they take measurements like i explained earlier.  they just dont walk up with a hand held and jab it into the surface, even if it was newly cut  ( or split).


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## Woody Stover (Aug 4, 2013)

Dogbyte said:


> Well i beg your pardon, a surface reading is also not where you measure impedance. i can dry a piece of osage in my kiln down below 7% and those cheap off the shelf meters are no where close. those moisture meters are meant for powders and other material that you can push the probes down inside. not just the surface of wood. There are various oven-dry methods and distillation methods that produce real results that these hand held meters, and even moe expensive equipment are attempting to estimate. for wood, i just wouldnt trust one down to the levels ive been reading about here. There is a reason kiln operators have really expensive devices meant for this, where they take measurements like i explained earlier. they just dont walk up with a hand held and jab it into the surface, even if it was newly cut ( or split).


All I know is, if Red Oak reads 16% on my cheap General meter, it will burn great in my stove and won't hiss when tossed on a bed of coals, whereas 20% will hiss a bit....cheap meter is close enough for me.


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## HDRock (Aug 4, 2013)

Dogbyte said:


> There is a reason kiln operators have really expensive devices


Well pardon me !! there is a reason, you_* do not*_ _*need*_ really expensive devices, for firewood 
The inexpensive moisture meters are meant for timber and building materials.

General Tools MMD4E Digital Moisture Meter
Here is a MMD4E MANUAL for ya
And One For The Harbor Freight Digital Mini Moisture Meter 
No mention of powder


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## Foragefarmer (Aug 4, 2013)

HDRock said:


> Well pardon me !! there is a reason, you_* do not*_ _*need*_ really expensive devices, for firewood
> The inexpensive moisture meters are meant for timber and building materials.
> 
> General Tools MMD4E Digital Moisture Meter
> ...


 


Actually the guy is right, on page two of the  MMD4E MANUAL  under uses it says Chemical/Pharma "check the dryness conductivity of powders".


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## rdust (Aug 4, 2013)

Foragefarmer said:


> Actually the guy is right, on page two of the MMD4E MANUAL  under uses it says Chemical/Pharma "check the dryness conductivity of powders".


 
Yeah it's among one of the uses they have listed.  The reality of it is I don't think anyone is fooling themselves that these cheap meters are "accurate", for the purpose of using it as a "go no go" for firewood they're sufficient.  20% on a cheap meter on a fresh split and the wood will burn just fine.


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## oldspark (Aug 4, 2013)

HF MM's are fine for firewood, every reading I have taken with mine makes perfect sense, sure it reads the surface moisture, thats why you have a fresh split or cut when you check the moisture.
Not sure why any one whould say other wise had one for 3 years or so and I would recomend one to any body, no reason to spend more money.
BK did some testing by comparing the HF MM readings to oven testing and he said they were fine for what most woodburners have in mind.


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## Foragefarmer (Aug 4, 2013)

rdust said:


> Yeah it's among one of the uses they have listed.  The reality of it is I don't think anyone is fooling themselves that these cheap meters are "accurate", for the purpose of using it as a "go no go" for firewood they're sufficient.  20% on a cheap meter on a fresh split and the wood will burn just fine.



Mr Rock stated in his above post: "no mention of powder". I was pointing out there is a mention of powder that I found in about 30 seconds skimming the manual posted by Mr. Rock.

 I was not questioning the validity of the consensus of this site that moisture meters are valuable within limits. That has been stated many times during my time here and I see the validity of the reasoning behind it. 

I feel that pointing out a misstatement helps to preserve the validity of the rest of an argument as long as it was made by others.


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## rdust (Aug 4, 2013)

Foragefarmer said:


> Mr Rock stated in his above post: "no mention of powder". I was pointing out there is a mention of powder that I found in about 30 seconds skimming the manual posted by Mr. Rock.


 
I read Dogbytes post as meaning the cheap meters are only good for things you can push the probes into such as powders.  I was just stating the manual lists powders/chemicals among other wood products.  No harm no foul either way this is the internet and we'll take away from it what we choose.  



Dogbyte said:


> those cheap off the shelf meters are no where close.* those moisture meters are meant for powders and other material that you can push the probes down inside.*


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## Dogbyte (Aug 4, 2013)

HDRock said:


> Well pardon me !! there is a reason, you_* do not*_ _*need*_ really expensive devices, for firewood
> The inexpensive moisture meters are meant for timber and building materials.
> 
> General Tools MMD4E Digital Moisture Meter
> ...


 
looks as though you've taken issue with something ive never suggested. that is, that you need any type of meter for firewood. without context, my comment you quoted might seem that way to others, but all it was meant to show, is that for accurate results of wood, rough, clean, or otherwise, hand helds arent used. if you've found a way to use it then im glad, i just wouldnt trust the number its showing you down to the single digits like ive been reading about on here. i was just trying to help the person that was doubting his meter, sorry if this upsets you.


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## oldspark (Aug 4, 2013)

We know they work because of results and you can not argue with results, not sure why you think they are worthless, not rocket science, does not have to be perfect and for a quick check of your wood they work very well. I am an electrician and I can check the wood any way you want me too but what the hell would the point be? Have not seem many claims of single digit numbers, one guy had single digit % but he was drying his wood by his stove for a week or so and it was higher when he started.


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## Dogbyte (Aug 4, 2013)

Lots of strawman arguments.  I didn't mean to ruffle feathers.  Never implied anyone lacked any mental capacity for using them.  Yall take care.  I know when it's best to shut up,  so that's what I will do.


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## rdust (Aug 4, 2013)

Dogbyte said:


> Never implied anyone lacked any mental capacity for using them.


 
I don't think anyone took it as such until now.


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## oldspark (Aug 4, 2013)

Dogbyte said:


> Lots of strawman arguments. I didn't mean to ruffle feathers. Never implied anyone lacked any mental capacity for using them. Yall take care. I know when it's best to shut up, so that's what I will do.


 Really dont want you to shut up, I want you to put up, several of us have told you how we feel about them and how they work for us (no strawman there) so what ya got?


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## Dogbyte (Aug 4, 2013)

rdust said:


> I don't think anyone took it as such until now.



Wouldn't know it by the replies.


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## Dogbyte (Aug 4, 2013)

oldspark said:


> Really dont want you to shut up, I want you to put up, several of us have told you how we feel about them and how they work for us (no strawman there) so what ya got?


 

ive heard it told that i said only use expensive meters
or to use meters at all in any capacity

i never advocated any of those, so yes those are strawmen...nor did i say it was rocket science.... im not sure what else you want me to "put up". the only thing im standing behind is that you cant use those meters to accurately test the wood down to single digits (yes percentages) and that number represent reality.  you may get a number, any number, and correlate that with no sizzle in the wood, that is basically a post hoc determination.

if someone new, was to go after a new split of wood with a cheapo meter and specifically aim for a certain percentage point, you are only chasing someone elses experience in their area, with thier conditions.  if you use them at all, then i still have no problem with it. Just dont act like its an accurate representation of reality. its just a number on a cheap meter. i only said what i did, in the context of the post i replied to. so you can put that where ever you want to.

im really sorry to the OP that this thread was derailed.


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## HDRock (Aug 4, 2013)

Foragefarmer said:


> Actually the guy is right, on page two of the MMD4E MANUAL  under uses it says Chemical/Pharma "check the dryness conductivity of powders".


Ok ,U got me
The Harbor Freight has no mention of powder, the General Tools  Meter does.
Bottom line ,  The inexpensive Meters are  accurate enough for firewood, and work great for many wood burners, simple as that.


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## rdust (Aug 4, 2013)

Dogbyte said:


> im really sorry to the OP that this thread was derailed.


 
No reason to be sorry, you're stating your opinion and people can choose to listen or not.  The reality is wood that is not kiln dried or seasoned in the desert has very little chance of hitting single digits.  I do not believe those numbers when I see them posted, it's rare to see single digit numbers posted.  The EMC in most areas isn't near single digits.  A member(Battenkiller) that used to post often on this subject did many tests comparing to meter to oven dried and came to the conclusion the meters were really close for our purpose.  He actually ran tests and had results/research to back up his results. 

If you want to doing some reading here is a good post comparing the two from BattenKiller.  https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/deconstructing-denniswood.73798/#post-73798  Feel free to search his many posts on the subject.


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## oldspark (Aug 4, 2013)

"I would consider the 4th option. That you can't accurately test a hunk of wood with harbor freight quality testers. In fact any economy tester that doesn't measure electrical resistance across probes driven at least a fifth the depth of the thickness isn't giving you anything other than a surface reading."
Well there it is, what was I to think?


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## georgepds (Aug 4, 2013)

Foragefarmer said:


> Actually the guy is right, on page two of the MMD4E MANUAL  under uses it says Chemical/Pharma "check the dryness conductivity of powders".


 

For timber the HF meter doc says the accuracy is 2% for low moisture level ( <30%) and 4% for high moisture level( >30%)

see p 11
http://manuals.harborfreight.com/manuals/67000-67999/67143.pdf


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## HDRock (Aug 4, 2013)

Don't really need it for firewood but , if U think U do, you can get a mini-Ligno for $100.00.
mini-Ligno User Instructions,  You could possibly use the, Wood Temperature  Correction Chart with other meters ,If U want to get technical


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## Cluttermagnet (Aug 5, 2013)

This coming winter I'll be burning my 3 year old cubes of Red Oak. You guys have me
just a little worried, as it is certainly possible that I had some leaks in my cheapo tarp
covers. My gut hunch is that all the wood will burn just fine. BTW they look a lot darker
than in the photo at this point. The tarps were new when they went on. I think they held
up OK.







Mother nature dealt me a lot of Tulip Poplar the past couple of years. Several times,
big trees have come crashing down in my back yard. I'm finding that properly
seasoned Tulip is quite a usable wood. It has about 2/3 the BTU's of Oak. Keeps
my house plenty warm. The seemingly greater amounts of light, fluffy ash that form
in the firebox can actually be easily compacted with the back of the shovel. So it
turns out that Tulip actually produces no more ash than any other of the woods I
burn here. Mixed with some Oak or Locust in every batch, it contributes its share
of the BTU's and the other woods take care of producing usable coals.

I burn a mix of Oak, Locust, Cherry, Maple, and Tulip Poplar, plus a few other
odds and ends types as I get them. Have been burning since 2007 now, and
still loving it. A lot of work, but definitely all worth it.


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## HDRock (Aug 5, 2013)

Mix it up accordingly , that's what I do


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## oldspark (Aug 5, 2013)

3 year old Red Oak should be fine, if its not then you might have to go to single rows.


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