# old jotul f118 vs. new jotul black bear



## Morso1bo

Hi,
I am finally replacing my 40 year old Morso 1b0 stove which has served me well!  I need the shape of a cigar burn stove and the new morso 2b classic is too small.  I have the oppertunity to by a completley rebuilt old jotul 118, or a new jotul Black Bear.  After reading lots of reviews, I am concerned that the new stove is not going to throw as much heat as the old f118 model.  It is in the kitchen of an 1811 (uninsulated) cape in northern new england.  The old Morso has really done well keeping three of the rooms toasty, and most importantly has kept the furnace from coming on.  Thanks for any insight to help me figure this out!


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## summit

why the sahpe? you do realize clearances off the new and old version is like 36", don't you?


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## Morso1bo

I need the shape because it fits in a narrow space in the kitchen.  The space is already set up with the clearences of an old stove in mind.  My current Morso has no heat shields.


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## begreen

Welcome to the forum. I have to ask, why are you replacing the 1bo? Is it not possible to rebuild it? That is a classic beauty.

From reports we have seen over the years, the new 118 will heat ok, but it has reduced fuel capacity and a somewhat fussy secondary rack that can warp. This has not been the most successful stove that Jotul has made. The older 118 is a legendary, serious heater and would probably be my choice here. The only problem is that like the 1bo, it doesn't burn nearly as cleanly as the newer generation of stoves. 

Can you post a picture of the Morso in its current location? You may have alternatives you haven't thought about. Some modern stoves like the PE Alderlea T5 or Napoleon 1400 have quite close clearances.


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## Morso1bo

Thanks for your input!  I agree that the Morso is a work of art but the top is developing a crack and the sides were warped by the last owners, so I am told it is not worth putting any serious money into.  I just got off the phone with the place that sells rebuilt stoves, and they actually have another Morso 1BO that is going to be rebuilt.  I think my prayers have been ansewered, as it is such a functional asset to our kitchen!  I have a new morso 2b standard that heats the upstairs of my house and it works like a charm, but it would not be able to keep up with the 1BO due to it's size.  Thanks Again!


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## begreen

That's awesome. Please take some pictures, we don't get to see many of these beauties in situ.


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## Morso1bo

I will as soon as I get my camera up and running again!
Thanks


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## defiant3

I agree that the old 118's were great, but be advised that their sides crack terribly!  Almost every one I've seen is cracked, sadly(that's alot of stoves, by the way).  So I'm not saying don't do it, but don't invest much $ in it, and realize t's likely to be temporary.  A WONDERFUL replacement would be a Lange 6302!  It's more stove than a 118, and there are still many around.  Replacement parts are available from Woodman's, unlike the 118, and it would fit your hearth.  Just a thought...


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## Morso1bo

Thank you for your insight.  There is a place in Chesterfield, NH that was selling a completely rebuilt 118 for 1500 dollars which seemed pricey since I could buy a new one for that.  It seems sill for something that could crack tomorrow!  Have you heard bad things about the new black bear jotul too?  
Thanks again for the warning


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## defiant3

$1500.00 for a 118 is frankly insane.  And I've not heard much re: the Black Bear, my business is mainly restoring old ones.  Still, there are surely some here who could help out with that!!


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## brianbeech

defiant3 said:
			
		

> I agree that the old 118's were great, but be advised that their sides crack terribly!  Almost every one I've seen is cracked, sadly(that's alot of stoves, by the way).  So I'm not saying don't do it, but don't invest much $ in it, and realize t's likely to be temporary.  A WONDERFUL replacement would be a Lange 6302!  It's more stove than a 118, and there are still many around.  Replacement parts are available from Woodman's, unlike the 118, and it would fit your hearth.  Just a thought...



I've got an old 118 and I'm curious as to what part is 'notorious' for cracking?  The plates on the inside or the actual outside plate on the side.  This is the first I've heard of most being cracked.  Is this a case where you work restoring stoves so you typically only see the damaged ones?

Thanks!


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## begreen

First for me unless this is referring to the inner burn plates.


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## Morso1bo

I thought that sounded like way too much money for a used stove.  I would be really bummed if I paid that much and it developed a crack.  I think I will be in the market for a 200-400 dollar one and if it cracks it will not be the end of the world.  I really wish I had heard better reviews of the new Black Bear!
Thanks all for your advice


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## begreen

Can I ask what the Morso 1bo rebuild would be selling for?

PS: I also agree on considering the Lange. It's a good classic heater.


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## Morso1bo

I should know by tomorrow what they will be charging for the Morso rebuild.  I am assuming that it will be more then the $1500 118.  As much as I love these old stoves, I would worry I would develop another crack.  I only paid $175 for my current 1b0 and it has pobably saved me $7,000 in oil in the last four years!
The lang is a cool stove, I wonder how many square feet it would heat?  I really like the new morso 2bclassic too, but I do not think that it would heat like the old morso for it is only rated for 1200 square ft and the old 1b0 must be around 1800.  If I decide on an old f118 I have already seeing one for $375 that looked pretty good.  I really do appreciate all of this insight on picking out a replacement stove.  Burning wood is my favorite passtime September-May.  It is nice to feel like you are beating the system in at least one area!
Thanks and I will let you know about the Morso price.


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## begreen

Can you post a picture of the current installation?

PS: Specs on some Langes can be found here: https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/wiki/Lange_Stoves/


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## Morso1bo

Hi,
I will try to borrow a digital camera from work tomorrow and post a photo of the Morso 1B0.  I found another guy who rebuilds stoves, and he has 2 1B0 stoves for sale for $500 a piece.  I am not sure if he takes them apart to recement the joints (is'nt that the only way that really does a good job?) but if the stove is not warped and cracked like mine, it will do the trick.  Not to mention $500 is definitely more within my budget.  
I stopped by the stove shop and checked out the jotul black bear and it felt a little flimsy and not of the same quality as the older models I am use to.  Well thanks again for all the input and I will post some photos of the stove and let you know what I find with the old Morsos.


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## begreen

Is this the shop in Chesterfield?


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## Morso1bo

No, this guy is in Vermont.


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## begreen

Do a craigslist search on Lange in NH and you should come up with a stove rebuild shop in Chesterfield with some pictures and contact info.


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## Biff_CT2

defiant3 said:
			
		

> $1500.00 for a 118 is frankly insane.  And I've not heard much re: the Black Bear, my business is mainly restoring old ones.  Still, there are surely some here who could help out with that!!



Agreed.

There's a 118 with an 18-day listing on eBay now for $650 in MA.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Jotul-Wood-Stov...367?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eb3811b1f

This particular seller has had a string of used 118's, at least one of which seemed outrageously overpriced - particularly for a used unit.

I really like the looks of the 118's.  That said, based on what I understand about warping and the cost of replacement baffles I'd be leary of buying one - particularly a used unit.  It's too bad, I'm otherwise partial to the Jotul brand as a rule.


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## brianbeech

Biff_CT2 said:
			
		

> defiant3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> $1500.00 for a 118 is frankly insane.  And I've not heard much re: the Black Bear, my business is mainly restoring old ones.  Still, there are surely some here who could help out with that!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed.
> 
> There's a 118 with an 18-day listing on eBay now for $650 in MA.
> http://cgi.ebay.com/Jotul-Wood-Stov...367?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eb3811b1f
> 
> This particular seller has had a string of used 118's, at least one of which seemed outrageously overpriced - particularly for a used unit.
> 
> I really like the looks of the 118's.  That said, based on what I understand about warping and the cost of replacement baffles I'd be leary of buying one - particularly a used unit.  It's too bad, I'm otherwise partial to the Jotul brand as a rule.
Click to expand...


I've got a used one that has never been rebuilt and it has been burned - I see no warping or breakage.  I'll let you know if I do have that, but it seems to be pretty stable.


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## begreen

I have seen several of the older 118s, some have been in action for >20 years without warping or cracks. Sounds like the repair shop may be  seeing the ones that were abused or run with warped, cracked or missing inner burn plates. That will age them fast.


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## defiant3

I geuss I'm more likely to see cracked ones, but still,it's quite common.  Look closely at  the guy cutting the tree on the outside (either side) or the moose- or is it a horse, I forget?


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## brianbeech

defiant3 said:
			
		

> I geuss I'm more likely to see cracked ones, but still,it's quite common.  Look closely at  the guy cutting the tree on the outside (either side) or the moose- or is it a horse, I forget?



Before burning in mine for the first time, I did the flashlight test from the inside.  After your comments about them, I'll be doing that more often.  Better safe than sorry.


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## begreen

Moved this to the classic stove section as that seems to be where it's heading unless we find a new EPA stove for morso 1bo.


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## Morso1bo

Thanks, I do think that I am heading towards another classic stove.  There just don't seem to to be any new box stoves that are big enough to suit my needs.  I finally took a photo of my current 1B0 placement to post for you  all to see why I really want another box stove.  As I said earlier I had considered a Jotul Oslo 500 but was worried it would not fit the space well and that it might be hard to get all of it's heat out of the kitchen (more heat would be good).  
Since I have posted last I have found and old green jotul f118 for $700 that is said to be in excellent shape, and another morso 1BO for 4-5 hundred that has had the seems cemented from the outside (and occasionally puffs smoke from one corner).  Also wondering will a porcelin finish hide any cracks?

Thanks again for everyones input, it has been most helpful!


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## begreen

If the color isn't dark, usually enamel will reveal cracks pretty quickly. Did the picture get posted to another thread?


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## Morso1bo

Thanks for the answer to my enamel question.  I took the pic today but then the camera from work died so I will try to get it posted tomorrow.  One more quick question.  Do you think the 1B0 and the f118 are relatively comparable in their heat output?


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## begreen

I would estimate them being close in heat output for the same wood load, but haven't owned either. It would be best to defer that answer to someone that has.


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## Morso1bo

After speaking to a woman selling a 1B0 in the next town over, she mentiond getting more heat from her 1B0 by using a damper on the flue pipe.  Does this cause the stove to run hotter then it should?  I really do not know what temp my actual stove runs at, I just keep a thermometer on the stove pipe.  If it does not damage the stove it would be great to wring some more heat from the stove.
Thanks for your insight on heat output between the jotul and morso, I would guess that they have similiar out put too.  The f118 has more cooking surface than the 1B0 which is good.  I make maple syrup on the 1B0 1 pot at a time, I could fit at least two pots on a f118.


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## begreen

We used a key damper with the Jotul 602. It helps to have a pipe and a stove thermometer in that case. The stove didn't overheat when the damper was closed, it just stayed warmer and extended the burn a bit more.


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## 5 Furnace

Hi- few years late to join this discussion- but as far as the Jotul 118 B cracking- mine is heating my backside right now and it (the stove I am referring to) has no cracks. 

I shut off my oil burner 5 years ago- ever since I installed the 1978 stove, that my brother found at the dump. I checked it out thoroughly- no cracks then and now. That is a long and still continuing lifespan for a stove "prone to cracks". I do have a friend with one as well- his is cracked though- don't know what the circumstances were when it cracked- he inherited it that way.

I keep a close eye on it and shut down the air when I leave it unattended- it settles down to a clean, reliable burn around 300 degrees measured at the pipe right off the stove. Wood is sesoned oak, maple or locust I cut locally and season. Always more vigilant with locust, as it burns so much hotter.

I love never paying for fossil fuels!


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