# Good Move by California.....



## webbie (Sep 3, 2006)

They are going to reduce greenhouse gases by 25% in the next 13 years!

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060901-7645.html

AND, business and utilities - plus the Govinator - are all behind it. They see it as driving business their way as they gear up for the energy efficient economy of the future.

This is what we should be doing as a country, but being as Ca. has an economy the size of France, this is a good start.


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## Todd (Sep 3, 2006)

It sounds good, but  how is this all going to happen? Raise the taxes? They already have the highest taxes and highest cost of living in the country!


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## webbie (Sep 3, 2006)

Todd said:
			
		

> It sounds good, but  how is this all going to happen? Raise the taxes? They already have the highest taxes and highest cost of living in the country!



Examples:
1. They have a program to install one million square feet of solar panels - a lot of sun in ca.
2. They also have the 2nd most wind machines

In addition, many of the efforts will actually save money and pollution, thereby not putting pressure on taxes. 

It's a complicated world - for instance, allowing more pollution causes more health problems, therefore higher taxes and premiums, but the results are not instant....they are long term. That is why it takes future planning to make good things happen. You have to look past the immediate effect.

Yes, killer taxes and cost of living there - my wife has always wanted to live there for a few years - I've nixed this idea, saying:

1. We probably could not handle all the new age crap
2. We would be relative paupers

So far, that has done the job.


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## Mo Heat (Sep 5, 2006)

Webmaster said:
			
		

> ... - I've nixed this idea, saying:
> 
> 1. We probably could not handle all the new age crap
> 2. We would be relative paupers



You forgot the weekly psychotherapy. 1 hour individual, 1 hour couples, 2 hours mixed group (1 hr moderated and 1 hr unmoderated), 2 hours same sex group (1 hr mod + 1 hr unmod), plus an hour or two for 12 step groups recommended by your therapist, and another hour or two reading related material and looking for money to pay for it all. It's like a part time job where you pay to whine or listen to other people whine about life in California. Statistics show that 1 out of 2 people in California has had psychotherapy. No one can survive there very long without it.


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## wg_bent (Sep 6, 2006)

Be interesting to see how they plan to achieve this.  Is a reduction in usage part of the equation?  Just reformulating gas etc... isn't a good solution.  better heating and cooling practices, better insulation, more efficient cars, encouraging less driving and other things need to be part of the solution.  It's actually an argument for higher gas prices.   If it's a tax then so be it.  Maybe with all that good weather a few more  in california should be driving scooters.  (as should we all)


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## saichele (Sep 6, 2006)

Warren said:
			
		

> Be interesting to see how they plan to achieve this.  Is a reduction in usage part of the equation?  Just reformulating gas etc... isn't a good solution.  better heating and cooling practices, better insulation, more efficient cars, encouraging less driving and other things need to be part of the solution.  It's actually an argument for higher gas prices.   If it's a tax then so be it.  Maybe with all that good weather a few more  in california should be driving scooters.  (as should we all)



I think the key to achieving the goal is building a bunch of power plants in Nevada...

Steve


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## berlin (Sep 6, 2006)

exactly steve, because we can't build any new coal powerplants in ny, we now simply buy more power from coal powerplants in ohio, pennsylvania and wv.  It is a little naive to think that because cali lowers it's gg emissions there will actually be a reduction in gg emissions from cali's energy use, they will simply send the power in from mexico and nevada. it's sound good, feel good bs that will acomplish nothing.

in fact the three proposed coal-fired powerplants (including one 1600 megawatt plant in southern illinois that is finally a-go) that my father has been doing some work for will alone likely remove that 25% from the equation right there.


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## Mo Heat (Sep 6, 2006)

Warren said:
			
		

> ...Maybe with all that good weather a few more  in california should be driving scooters.  (as should we all)



That would be trading the dollars saved on fossil fuels and their emissions for similar dollars spent on fossil fuels and emissions from the hospital and repeated auto trips for doctor follow-ups to treat all the scooter accident victims. Can't chop wood while you're convalescing or minus an arm or leg.


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## wg_bent (Sep 7, 2006)

berlin said:
			
		

> exactly steve, because we can't build any new coal powerplants in ny, we now simply buy more power from coal powerplants in ohio, pennsylvania and wv.  It is a little naive to think that because cali lowers it's gg emissions there will actually be a reduction in gg emissions from cali's energy use, they will simply send the power in from mexico and nevada. it's sound good, feel good bs that will acomplish nothing.
> 
> in fact the three proposed coal-fired powerplants (including one 1600 megawatt plant in southern illinois that is finally a-go) that my father has been doing some work for will alone likely remove that 25% from the equation right there.



Exactly Berlin...You're on the same wavelength I'm on!


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## wg_bent (Sep 7, 2006)

Mo Heat said:
			
		

> Warren said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's a legal problem!!  Is California a big wood burining state?  I didn't think so.  I'd bet Maine has more woodburners than CA with 1/100th the population.  

It just ain't cold enough there.


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## webbie (Sep 7, 2006)

Steve said:
			
		

> I think the key to achieving the goal is building a bunch of power plants in Nevada...
> 
> Steve



Steve, did you read anything about this, or are you making this up because you can't imagine forward thinking.....

I'm guessing you did not read about it, because one of the major factors in the plan is to FORCE utilities and suppliers from OUTSIDE the state to conform to the Ca. rules. In other words, no purchase of power from dirty plants in Nevada.

In better other words, driving the market to cleaner technologies.

"An AP report indicates that California is also seeking to influence nearby states by requiring out-of-state utilities that do business with the state government to also reduce their emissions."

I would think that most people would laud such a plan and not just throw the usual darts.


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## restorer (Sep 7, 2006)

One of the major answers is to get the container ships and freight haulers to plug in at the ports rather than run the on board engines for power. They are also using electric tractors in the container yards. I think Long Beach stands a chance to be human friendly in a few years.


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