# Hard starting Kohler splitter engine in the cold



## twd000 (Nov 23, 2018)

I have a new Dirty Hand Tools 22-ton splitter. It has been a bit slow to start and today with the cold weather it took forever. It was 20 while I was working on it, and it's been 10 overnight lately. 

The only way I got it going was to pull the spark plug and spray a few shots of carb cleaner straight into the cylinder.

Is there any way to avoid this routine all winter? 

I noted that the hydraulic pump coupling is engaged even when the ram is at idle position, so in addition to trying to pull the starter cord against a few quarts of 10W-30 in the cylinder, the engine is also pulling against the resistance of several gallons of cold ATF fluid . Seems like it would be handy to disengage the coupling until I got the engine going....


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## greg13 (Nov 24, 2018)

First, change to a Synthetic oil, That will help on the engine side. Try a magnetic block heater on the Hydraulic tank to help warm the pump side, just plug it in for an hour or two before you start. 

NO machine likes to start in the cold, you just have to find away around it.


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## Montanalocal (Nov 24, 2018)

Sometime  a little ether-based starting fluid sprayed into the air intake will get it to pop when nothing else will.  I know some people are against them, but I have used them my whole life, and I can not see that I have ever damaged anything with them.


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## brenndatomu (Nov 24, 2018)

greg13 said:


> First, change to a Synthetic oil, That will help on the engine side. Try a magnetic block heater on the Hydraulic tank to help warm the pump side, just plug it in for an hour or two before you start.
> 
> NO machine likes to start in the cold, you just have to find away around it.


This ^ ^ ^...not the ether. 
The cold oil in the hydraulic pump is causing most of the trouble...you are correct in your assumption about disengaging the pump...dad used to have an old bobcat skidsteer that you could release the pump on...it made a huge difference getting that old Kohler fired up...


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## Woodsplitter67 (Nov 24, 2018)

I fined that putting the throttle about half way helps start it. As as atsted above, nothing really likes to start in the cold..


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## VirginiaIron (Nov 24, 2018)

twd000 said:


> I have a new Dirty Hand Tools 22-ton splitter. It has been a bit slow to start and today with the cold weather it took forever. It was 20 while I was working on it, and it's been 10 overnight lately.
> 
> The only way I got it going was to pull the spark plug and spray a few shots of carb cleaner straight into the cylinder.
> 
> ...



Use fresh gas and the 5w30. Be mindful that you may have a greater oil consumption with the lighter grade oil. ATF should not be affected at that temp. Plus, ethanol gets worse when temps get colder


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## twd000 (Nov 24, 2018)

thanks for the comments

yes I have 10W-30 Mobil synthetic in it already.  Same stuff I use in my snowblower, lawn tractor, and leaf vacuum which all start on the 1st or second pull in all weather.  I realize 5W-30 is thinner, but I also need to run my machines in the summer, and changing oil 2x a year ain't gonna happen in all honesty

What is the downside of the ether starting fluid?  It was puking thick black smoke for 5 minutes so I assume it's not good for it!  The starting fluid in the air intake didn't work; only spraying straight into the cylinder did the trick.

I would consider the electric heater but it's pretty inconvenient running an extension cord a couple hundred feet from the garage, and not an option when I am mobile scrounging firewood.  Is it an option to retrofit a lever to disengage the pump?  Once the motor is spinning on its own, I have no doubt that it can spin the cold ATF fluid.


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## TJ1 (Nov 24, 2018)

Simply the nature of cold weather. Like others said just buy a can of starting fluid and give it a squirt. No sense reinventing the wheel. Cheap, easy, and works great.


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## CentralVAWoodHeat (Nov 24, 2018)

When you say it wouldn't start, can you explain your process?

Usually my splitter with a Kohler XT starts in warm weather on the second pull at full choke.  In weather around 10-30F it takes about 7 pulls at full choke and then I have to let it at half choke a few second and work down to choke off.  It then takes a good 5-10 minutes to warm up fully with a few cylinder cycles under no load.


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## Slocum (Nov 25, 2018)

When you pulled plug was plug wet? Make sure you turn you gas off after every use. It will save you a lot of problems 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## VirginiaIron (Nov 25, 2018)

Do you have electric start options?


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## twd000 (Nov 25, 2018)

No electric start option.

My procedure was to set switch on,  fuel on, throttle high, choke closed. Pulled several times. It spit out a puff of exhaust but didn't turn over. Tried putting the throttle to midpoint as suggested in the manual.  Several pulls, just smoke, but no burping sound.

Sprayed starting fluid in the air intake, pulled ...no luck. Pulled spark plug, tested good spark. Dried the plug, put it back in and pulled. No luck. Pulled the plug again, squirted in 4 shots of starting fluid....replaced the plug, started on the very next pull.


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## xman23 (Nov 25, 2018)

I've have a ATV that's hard to start. Well that's what I thought for years. The real issue was I didn't know how to start it. with a lot of trial and error I discovered it wanted the throttle pumped 6 times,  full choke and throttle off. Starts right up and idles. Let it idle 5 min. Nothing else works.

So try something doing something new until you figure it out.

Be very careful with starting fluid. It drys up the cylinder lubrication. It can wreck an engine.


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## Corey (Nov 25, 2018)

VirginiaIron said:


> Use fresh gas ...



Not only 'fresh' gas, but be sure to use 'in season' gas, too.  If you bought a 5 gallon a few months ago, it is likely 'summer' gas with a lower vapor pressure and less 'volatile' components.  So even if stored in a sealed container and seemingly fresh, it may produce hard starting in the cold.  

If you get gas 'now' it is likely a winter blend which will have higher volatiles / higher vapor pressure and easier starting in the cold.


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## twd000 (Nov 26, 2018)

Corey said:


> Not only 'fresh' gas, but be sure to use 'in season' gas, too.  If you bought a 5 gallon a few months ago, it is likely 'summer' gas with a lower vapor pressure and less 'volatile' components.  So even if stored in a sealed container and seemingly fresh, it may produce hard starting in the cold.
> 
> If you get gas 'now' it is likely a winter blend which will have higher volatiles / higher vapor pressure and easier starting in the cold.




I understand in principle, but it's not realistic for me in practice.  I have a 3-gallon gas can, and I use it for all my machines, in all seasons.  I'm not going to keep separate cans for summer and winter, since old gas is even worse than out-of-season gas.  Whatever needs fuel gets filled from that can as needed.  Chainsaw, log splitter, lawn mower, 2 string trimmers, leaf vacuum, powerwagon, snow blower....

When I happen across some free firewood, I pick it up and split it.  Could be January, could be July.  When the tank runs dry, I fill it.  I don't know how many gallons of gas it takes to split a cord of rounds, or a half dozen rounds that I came across.  I don't know when the next time is that I will need to run the splitter...sometimes a friend will want to borrow it if I'm not using it.  If it has "summer gas" in the tank in winter, am I supposed to siphon out the leftover gas, and put it in my car?  Should I run it dry after every use, even if it takes hours at idle speed?


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## brenndatomu (Nov 26, 2018)

twd000 said:


> I understand in principle, but it's not realistic for me in practice.  I have a 3-gallon gas can, and I use it for all my machines, in all seasons.  I'm not going to keep separate cans for summer and winter, since old gas is even worse than out-of-season gas.  Whatever needs fuel gets filled from that can as needed.  Chainsaw, log splitter, lawn mower, 2 string trimmers, leaf vacuum, powerwagon, snow blower....
> 
> When I happen across some free firewood, I pick it up and split it.  Could be January, could be July.  When the tank runs dry, I fill it.  I don't know how many gallons of gas it takes to split a cord of rounds, or a half dozen rounds that I came across.  I don't know when the next time is that I will need to run the splitter...sometimes a friend will want to borrow it if I'm not using it.  If it has "summer gas" in the tank in winter, am I supposed to siphon out the leftover gas, and put it in my car?  Should I run it dry after every use, even if it takes hours at idle speed?


I do the same thing, all small engines get fuel from the same cans. Whenever I fill up the 5 gallon can, it gets treated with fuel stabilizer...that way there's no guessing if it needs treated or not. Otherwise, you may plan on doing more cutting, but then the weather turns and things just sit for months with untreated fuel in it. 
I think you'll gain more from this than summer/winter fuel...although it is different.


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## Dobish (Nov 29, 2018)

what was the position of the detent valve? I couldn't quite tell if it was engaged or not. if it was at all engaged, the engine won't start.  I will engage it then push it back when I go to start it. Check your levels too.

At one point, I had to replace the flywheel and starter on my DHT 22, but I called them up and it was under warranty. I often find that I have to start with the throttle about half way.


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## twd000 (Nov 29, 2018)

Dobish said:


> what was the position of the detent valve? I couldn't quite tell if it was engaged or not. if it was at all engaged, the engine won't start.  I will engage it then push it back when I go to start it. Check your levels too.
> 
> At one point, I had to replace the flywheel and starter on my DHT 22, but I called them up and it was under warranty. I often find that I have to start with the throttle about half way.



Detent valve / handle was in neutral position.  But even when the ram isn't moving, the coupling is engaged and the hydro pump is moving fluid, and dumping it back into the tank.  This seems like a foolish design, as it requires the flywheel to overcome the load on the pump in addition to its own inertia.  I'm kind of baffled that there's no lever to disengage the coupling during startup.


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## blades (Nov 29, 2018)

Built to a price point, do not know of any of the splitters in that price range that have a dis-engagement system for the Hydro pump. you could switch to a multigrade hydro oil rather than motor oil . There is a world of difference.


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## Medic21 (Nov 29, 2018)

This is what ether will do to a small gas engine.  It is designed for Diesel engines without glow plugs or preheaters.






I use brake clean or WD40 if I need to use anything.  

Once it tries to fire take the choke off and then pull again. Or even go to half choke.  Very easy to flood one.  Do you store it inside?


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## VirginiaIron (Nov 29, 2018)

twd000 said:


> ... I'm kind of baffled that there's no lever to disengage the coupling during startup.


These units should not require disconnects. Check your compression and use the lighter engine oil. All modern engines require a minimum rpm to start.


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## VirginiaIron (Nov 29, 2018)

An alternative would be to replace the engine with a unit that has an automatic compression release. If you go this route, get the one with electric start options.


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## brenndatomu (Nov 29, 2018)

Medic21 said:


> This is what ether will do to a small gas engine. It is designed for Diesel engines without glow plugs or preheaters.


Yes, and even then it should not be used frequently, and when used, used sparingly. It doesn't do diesels any favors either.
Generally, if an engine needs ether to start, there's another problem...that said, I keep some around. Mainly gets used as parts cleaner, and very occasionally, for diagnostics.


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## salecker (Nov 30, 2018)

Medic21 said:


> This is what ether will do to a small gas engine.  It is designed for Diesel engines without glow plugs or preheaters.
> 
> View attachment 234397
> 
> ...


Starting Fluid/Ether...
Great tool to use on any engin,i have been using it since i was a teenager in the Yukon where it gets very cold at times.I have use it on all of my equipment,diesel engines with and without glow plugs.Have used it on all gas engines at some time.
Just remember to use it sparingly and properly.
Mind you one drunken night my Yamaha ET250 ran out of gas on my way home,found the usual can of ether in the toolbox,so i drove the snow machine home on ether that night,wasn't that far i think the only reason it never hurt the engine was that it was one of the first snow machines with oil injection.
So in confessing to bad use of ether.... i have never had an issue or heard of anyone doing damage to an engine with ether that i know and could personally see that something was damaged by it.There are always lots of "stories" of the damage ether can do.I have never seen a validated situation where damage was actually done by ether/starting fluid.


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## brenndatomu (Nov 30, 2018)

Sounds to me like you have been lucky


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## Medic21 (Nov 30, 2018)

salecker said:


> Starting Fluid/Ether...
> Great tool to use on any engin,i have been using it since i was a teenager in the Yukon where it gets very cold at times.I have use it on all of my equipment,diesel engines with and without glow plugs.Have used it on all gas engines at some time.
> Just remember to use it sparingly and properly.
> Mind you one drunken night my Yamaha ET250 ran out of gas on my way home,found the usual can of ether in the toolbox,so i drove the snow machine home on ether that night,wasn't that far i think the only reason it never hurt the engine was that it was one of the first snow machines with oil injection.
> So in confessing to bad use of ether.... i have never had an issue or heard of anyone doing damage to an engine with ether that i know and could personally see that something was damaged by it.There are always lots of "stories" of the damage ether can do.I have never seen a validated situation where damage was actually done by ether/starting fluid.



I have blown intakes off Diesel engines with a preheated.


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## salecker (Dec 1, 2018)

Medic21 said:


> I have blown intakes off Diesel engines with a preheated.


Wow...
 Never in my life have i actually seen or heard that happen.
 But i have seen pictures of a broken anvil so i guess anything is possible.
Got any pictures?


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## salecker (Dec 1, 2018)

brenndatomu said:


> Sounds to me like you have been lucky


Not lucky just know how to use the" tool"


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## brenndatomu (Dec 1, 2018)

Riding your ET250 home on "ether injection" without blowing it up is not know how to use the tool...its dumb luck.
And I have not personally blown anything up using ether (because I use it sparingly...know how to use the tool and all) but I have worked on stuff that was roached from others using it. 
Back in school one of my ag mechanics instructors had pictures of a briggs or a kohler (don't recall which now) that he had worked on years earlier that looked a lot like the pic Medic1 posted...had been ether'd to death


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## Medic21 (Dec 1, 2018)

salecker said:


> Wow...
> Never in my life have i actually seen or heard that happen.
> But i have seen pictures of a broken anvil so i guess anything is possible.
> Got any pictures?



Nope, it was a 3 cal Kubota in a light set.  

The only thing I’ll use ether in the the pro stock pulling tractor.  Need a can to get warmed up lol.


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## rox3406 (Dec 2, 2018)

Ok friends let’s wrangle in this ether issue. All of us experienced mechanics have an ether horror story under our belt. But the truth is when used properly it won’t hurt anything. In a gas engine a snort or two in the intake is just fine. It has an upper cylinder lubricant to prevent washing of the cyl. Use it as a replacement for gasoline you will have a problem. 
In a Diesel engine spray to much and it will vapor lock. If it has an intake air preheater this should be disconnected before spraying any staring aid into the intake. Most vehicles equipped with one have warnings right on the air cleaner stating this. If it has glow plugs just wait till the light goes out then spray. 

Long story short when used correctly it’s a great tool to have.
To the op. When it’s realy cold out and the splitter needs a little help just give her a snort down the intake with the choke open and enjoy your day of splitting.


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## brenndatomu (Dec 2, 2018)

rox3406 said:


> But the truth is when used properly it won’t hurt anything.


Agreed...more or less...the key is "when used properly".


rox3406 said:


> In a gas engine a snort or two in the intake is just fine.


Here is where the problems start...how much is "a snort or two"? You and I may give it just a wisp, since its a small engine, but Joe homeowner might give it a "snort" that would start a 12L Cat! 
And then there is the whole issue of knowing how much to use based on ambient air temp...a little bit goes a long ways in the summertime...less so at 0*.
And I never shoot it down the intake, especially on a small single cylinder engine...chances are high that you will at the very least get the pull cord ripped out of your hands on that first compression stroke. I mist the air filter instead...that way it gets a little bit over several intake strokes. The risk there is burning the air filter down if it backfires out the intake.

I just don't like to encourage people to use ether (or "starting fluid") on small engines, especially gasoline...just a bad habit to get into.
I'm just gonna drop this though...I think my point has been made, and people are gonna do what they want anyways, so if you choose to start your OPE with ether and get away with it, good for you...if you blow it up...hey, you were warned.

One last suggestion/idea to the OP...I have never tried it, but I have a friend that starts his splitter in cold weather with a large gear reduction drill...he pops the recoil starter off and then there is something there that a socket fits on (I hope its not the flywheel nut, kind of a high risk of twisting that off IMO) then he puts the drill on it and cranks away. He said its usually running in 10-15 seconds. Once the engine fires for just a bit...builds some temperature in the cylinder, it will pull the drag of the hydraulic pump on its own. (this is in really cold weather) Like I said, I've never tried it.


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## salecker (Dec 2, 2018)

brenndatomu said:


> Riding your ET250 home on "ether injection" without blowing it up is not know how to use the tool...its dumb luck.
> And I have not personally blown anything up using ether (because I use it sparingly...know how to use the tool and all) but I have worked on stuff that was roached from others using it.
> Back in school one of my ag mechanics instructors had pictures of a briggs or a kohler (don't recall which now) that he had worked on years earlier that looked a lot like the pic Medic1 posted...had been ether'd to death


Never said driving the ET250 was using a tool,i was drunk and it was cold,i was the tool then
it's like a Sasquatch,i hear about people doing damage but never see it.And i have never seen a Sasquatch either.


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