# Wood pellet Stove Auger Bushing - Brass, Plastic - Which do u have? How do u Lubricate?



## Don2222 (Apr 22, 2012)

Hello

Well, I just found some sort of plastic or Neoprene Auger Bushing around the steel Auger in the Pelpro HHPP2BD pellet stove I am working on. It is a little noisy.

*What is the best lubricant for this plastic bushing?*

The Travis pellet stoves use a SAE 841 oil impregnated BRASS bushing around the steel Auger.

Englanders use a bearing with a grease fitting around their iron augers in their double auger horizontal feed systems used in the 25-PDV and 25-PDVC !

*What do you have in your stove and how do you keep it running smooth so the flame is the height that it should be?*

*See yellow arrows pointing to plastic auger bushing in pic below.*


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## imacman (Apr 22, 2012)

My _guess_ is that the bushing is Nylon. Normally, Nylon is self-lubricating and needs only to be cleaned occasionally, but if you want to try, I'd use a dry lube, like graphite powder.

If you want to try something wet, I'd try spray silicone. Do NOT use WD 40....not good for Nylon.

Maybe Mike H. from Englander will see this thread and add his thoughts on what the bearing might be.

BTW, if you remove it, clean it, and rub your finger over it and it feels "slippery", it's def. Nylon.


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## Don2222 (Apr 22, 2012)

Thanks Pete for the info!

What kind of auger bushing is on your 10-CPM?


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## imacman (Apr 22, 2012)

Don2222 said:


> Thanks Pete for the info!
> 
> What kind of auger bushing is on your 10-CPM?


None that I can remember.  There is just a mounting plate and a collar that slides over the auger flight (tube).


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## Don2222 (Apr 22, 2012)

imacman said:


> None that I can remember. There is just a mounting plate and a collar that slides over the auger flight (tube).


 
The parts list shows #42 CA-AC Steel Auger Coupler - That looks like a bushing in the exploded parts view? Maybe that is the closest thing to a bushing. Goes to show that unit is Well Built!

btw: - Is this a good deal for a less than a 1 yo unit like yours?
http://maine.craigslist.org/for/2972487316.html


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## imacman (Apr 22, 2012)

Don2222 said:


> btw: - Is this a good deal for a less than a 1 yo unit like yours?
> http://maine.craigslist.org/for/2972487316.html


 
If he can provide the serial # so you can confirm the date of manufacture is 1 year ago (or so), then I'd say it's a good deal.  

BTW, if you looked at the background in the pic, I think we all see where all the heat is going (an unfinished basement).


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## DexterDay (Apr 22, 2012)

I paid $1,150 for a Brand new (factory 2nd w/ small grind blemish) CPM delivered to my Door.

Even if you bought a refurb unit from Andy at AMFM Energy, it will be slightly cheaper and no need to pick it up. They deliver it right to your drive. Mike Holton and his crew go through the refurb units and ensure they are Good to Go. 

Unless I could get that stove for around $900, I would go with the Factory refurb and get the Full Factory Warranty for $200 more. IMO


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## smoke show (Apr 23, 2012)

Don2222 said:


> btw: - Is this a good deal for a less than a 1 yo unit like yours?
> http://maine.craigslist.org/for/2972487316.html


 Maybe if he tosses in the ash vac and any leftover pellets.

Otherwise I'm with Dexter.


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## Crane Stoves (Apr 23, 2012)

OK folks....here is a secret for you, the ideal material for this app. is called Delrin (a very expensive plastic that last a lifetime, never needs lub, quite forever), the problem is because manufacturers do not wish to pay for this stuff and frankly its TO good a product to expect spare part sales in 10 years they choose not to use it. You may need to make the bushing yourself by purchasing a peice of delrin but try google to find something. My father stove company tested this stuff with incredible success and to this day 20+ years later any applications its been used on have never needed replacing. If you cant find any then PM me and ill mail you a thick piece you can bring to any machineshop and they can drill out a bushing for you that you will never hear squeek and never have to replace or maintain again.... sincerely Doug Crane


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## sinnian (Apr 23, 2012)

Fines are all my boiler needs in order for nylon bushings not to squeak


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## Don2222 (Apr 23, 2012)

doug crane said:


> OK folks....here is a secret for you, the ideal material for this app. is called Delrin (a very expensive plastic that last a lifetime, never needs lub, quite forever), the problem is because manufacturers do not wish to pay for this stuff and frankly its TO good a product to expect spare part sales in 10 years they choose not to use it. You may need to make the bushing yourself by purchasing a peice of delrin but try google to find something. My father stove company tested this stuff with incredible success and to this day 20+ years later any applications its been used on have never needed replacing. If you cant find any then PM me and ill mail you a thick piece you can bring to any machineshop and they can drill out a bushing for you that you will never hear squeek and never have to replace or maintain again.... sincerely Doug Crane


 

Hi Doug

Is it fireproof? If there is a hopper fire will it melt?

Magnum makes 2 types
Is the plastic Delron the same as the Delrin you are talking about?

From https://www.americanenergysystems.com/hardware.cfm
$12.00 Bushing (set), Auger 


Models: MagnuM Avent DC, MagnuM Baby Countryside AC, MagnuM Baby Countryside DC, MagnuM Essex DC, MagnuM T40 Fireplace Insert AC, MagnuM T40 Fireplace Insert DC, MagnuM T40 Queen Ann Leg Unit AC, MagnuM T40 Queen Ann Leg Unit DC, MagnuM Winchester AC, MagnuM Winchester AC Fireplace Insert, MagnuM Winchester DC, MagnuM Winchester DC Fireplace Insert

$7.00 P1178 Bushing, Delron, Plastic 


Models: MagnuM 6500 Furnace, MagnuM 7500 Furnace, MagnuM Baby Countryside AC, MagnuM Baby Countryside DC, MagnuM Countryside Fireplace Insert, MagnuM Countryside Pedestal, MagnuM Countryside Queen Ann Leg Unit, MagnuM Winchester AC, MagnuM Winchester AC Fireplace Insert, MagnuM Winchester DC, MagnuM Winchester DC Fireplace Insert


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## Crane Stoves (Apr 23, 2012)

Don2222 said:


> Hi Doug
> 
> Is it fireproof? If there is a hopper fire will it melt?
> 
> ...


 
If there is a fire in your hopper you have much more to worry about then a lil' bushing LOL, you will loose your motor, wire, etc. (the stove you have is UL listed so you your risk of that happening is very small (delrin is as heat resistant as anything else including the lessor quality bushing it came with). The delrin bushing for auto racing use sometimes have poly mixed with them but you can ask the manufacturer if they are pure Delrin? sometimes Delrin is used in very high end Marine Equipment as well. You can see now that Delrin is for extreme performance and if people were aware of this material manufactures would start using it alot more!


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## Don2222 (Apr 23, 2012)

doug crane said:


> If there is a fire in your hopper you have much more to worry about then a lil' bushing LOL, you will loose your motor, wire, etc. (the stove you have is UL listed so you your risk of that happening is very small (delrin is as heat resistant as anything else including the lessor quality bushing it came with). The delrin bushing for auto racing use sometimes have poly mixed with them but you can ask the manufacturer if they are pure Delrin? sometimes Delrin is used in very high end Marine Equipment as well.


 

Hi Doug
I am currently working on a Magnum Baby CountrySide that had a hopper fire. The design of this model does not have a Hopper Gasket so that does not help!

Anyway, all the components check out fine. The Auger motor, all the safety switches. I did have to reset the Hi Limit switch which is on the bottom side of the auger flight tube. That switch trips at 225 Deg F so the auger did get very hot!

Now I cannot see any bushing there and when the auger turns it hits the back edge of the hopper sheet metal and jambs up solid!
Please See pic here > https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...stove-hopper-fire-weird-auger-jam-help.86187/

Do you know what type of bushings the Magnum uses?


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## DexterDay (Apr 23, 2012)

Don.. Even be without a hopper gasket, the hopper is under negative pressure and air should be going down the auger chute.  Not up it. As Doug said above, there is much more going on to start a hopper fire. Lots of models do not have a sealed hopper (All Quadrafires dont). The Baby does have a Hopper Gasket underneath the body (exterior shell) of the stove. If you remove that panel you will see a 1/2" or 5/8" flat/tape gasket.

The Babys have bad airflow problems and can build up pellets in the pot because of inadequate air flow for combustion. Sounds more like the pellets piled up until they had no choice but to burn up the chute. IMO


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## Don2222 (Apr 23, 2012)

DexterDay said:


> Don.. Even be without a hopper gasket, the hopper is under negative pressure and air should be going down the auger chute. Not up it. As Doug said above, there is much more going on to start a hopper fire. Lots of models do not have a sealed hopper (All Quadrafires dont). The Baby does have a Hopper Gasket underneath the body (exterior shell) of the stove. If you remove that panel you will see a 1/2" or 5/8" flat/tape gasket.
> 
> The Babys have bad airflow problems and can build up pellets in the pot because of inadequate air flow for combustion. Sounds more like the pellets piled up until they had no choice but to burn up the chute. IMO


 

The cause of this fire is probably due to the venting istallation. Outside venting with 1 foot vertical rise and very close to the ground!

My problem is fixing the Auger now and I do not even see a bushing around it!
Should there be one?


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## SmokeyTheBear (Apr 23, 2012)

One is never guaranteed that there is negative pressure in a hopper unless it is sealed. Unsealed hoppers always present a possible burn back possibility. Usually it requires pile up to occur first. But the actual cause of the pile up may be the competing airflows.

People keep forgetting there are possible competing air flows at work when they have an unsealed hopper. Also in the case of sealed systems think about the gummy stove issue a certain stove has and the solution for that issue.


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## DexterDay (Apr 23, 2012)

I dont think 1' of vert will hurt it. My buddy has 3' of Direct vent outside.

If anything, the 1' may help. But not hurt it. Not enougg vent to cool the gases. That and a venting system that short should have little to do with a hopper fire. Unless it wasn't cleaned. If thats the case. Then its not the ventings fault. Thats operator error. They should he cleaning the vent on monthly intervals. IMO 

3' inside / 3' outside / Direct vent / just keep it clean.


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## Crane Stoves (Apr 23, 2012)

looks like a drafting problem to me here Don, an easy way to give you an analogy is your hopper is essentially becoming your chimney to some degree (try to create better drafting in my opinion to resolve your issue).

as for repairing the sheet metal that is blocking the feeder (assuming the feeder screw is not damaged or warped) simply bend the sheet metal into a position that will allow for the feeder to turn unobstructed (be sure to be careful to maintain as minimal clearance as possible because its a VERY fine line with auto stokers as to how much fuel is allowed to run into the fire grate (to much = fail to little = fail)


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## Don2222 (Apr 23, 2012)

DexterDay said:


> I dont think 1' of vert will hurt it. My buddy has 3' of Direct vent outside.
> 
> If anything, the 1' may help. But not hurt it. Not enougg vent to cool the gases. That and a venting system that short should have little to do with a hopper fire. Unless it wasn't cleaned. If thats the case. Then its not the ventings fault. Thats operator error. They should he cleaning the vent on monthly intervals. IMO
> 
> 3' inside / 3' outside / Direct vent / just keep it clean.


 
Hi Dexter
Uninsulated Outside vertical venting is part of what I call adverse tolorance stack up for the Baby CountrySide.

1. Outside Vertical Venting in a cold climate like the North East here. Not Recommended
2. Corner of the building which is low and very drafty. Not the best location!
3. Magnum BabyCountryside with no Hopper Lid Gasket! Should have a hopper lid gasket!
4. In this case the out building is very poorly insulated and may be causing a chimney effect!


See
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...ve-venting-for-magnum-baby-countryside.85610/

See Magnum BabyCountrySide Manual page 18 below excerpt I circled in Red!
click to enlarge and read what is NOT recommended here!

It states:
> > "Note: This type of installation is not recommended in cold climates unless closed in and properly insulated." < <


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## SmokeyTheBear (Apr 23, 2012)

Don get a bushing in there for the auger to rest against and the jam up should stop, in fact since there is a auger bushing set for that stove and the stove has had a fire where it should not  have been I'd replace the set, then obtain the proper burn pot and the more powerful combustion blower.   Then I'd do something about the vent set up.   Use the factory provided solutions.

It is possible for the chimney effect inside a house to swamp a combustion blower.   One needs a mag and pay a visit to the house paying attention to all air movers that can go on and off.  Things like dryers, exhaust fans, other burners such as boilers for water heating, this list includes fans used in the attempt to distribute heat from the stove.


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## Don2222 (Apr 23, 2012)

doug crane said:


> looks like a drafting problem to me here Don, an easy way to give you an analogy is your hopper is essentially becoming your chimney to some degree (try to create better drafting in my opinion to resolve your issue).
> 
> as for repairing the sheet metal that is blocking the feeder (assuming the feeder screw is not damaged or warped) simply bend the sheet metal into a position that will allow for the feeder to turn unobstructed (be sure to be careful to maintain as minimal clearance as possible because its a VERY fine line with auto stokers as to how much fuel is allowed to run into the fire grate (to much = fail to little = fail)


 
Hi Doug
Yes, I agree there are draft problems that may only occur on a windy day but there can be many windy days!

I do not see any feeder screws. The 1st attempt to fix the stove was to bend the hopper sheet metal back. That did help from the auger going under the sheet metal and becoming really jambed up but now the edge of the auger just hits the edge of the sheet metal and stops.
The weight of the auger motor pulls the edge of the auger down so it will not clear the sheet metal edge unless I push the auger motor up thus pushing the auger up about 1/4 inch! So that is where I am stuck.
I am also puzzled because I do not see an auger bushing and there is too much play moving the auger from side to side!


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## SmokeyTheBear (Apr 23, 2012)

Don feeder screw = auger .


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## Crane Stoves (Apr 23, 2012)

im sorry when i say feeder screw i mean auger (when i used to play with ways to autofeed we used terms that may not be the norm today), I think you have a handle on things that can be done to improve your draft (dont let people tell you draft doesn't matter on a stoker because of the forced air intake which creates its own draft... draft is critical with any fire/heating appliance). I cant really speak to the specs or parts of your manufacturer but i can tell you if that auger is wobbling then thats a problem that MUST be fixed! if its a design flaw then call the manufacturer and tell them to fix it, if its a part like a bushing missing then you need to obtain the schematics and find out what your missing and order/install a new one before using this stove any further (you will only damage it worst trying).

after looking at the schematics of this unit dont be afraid to use some ingenuity to fix a flaw if needed... If you see an idea or way to secure the auger from a wobbling then test it! 3 things you know need to happen.... #1 that auger needs to turn strait #2 the sheet metal cannot be allowed to get in the way of the auger #3 you need to ensure you have an adequate draft.  I wish i was their to dig into this with you as it brings back memories of my youth and the excitement i had designing and building stoves....


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## DexterDay (Apr 23, 2012)

Don, without a Bushing on the back of the auger, there will be a great deal of fines that gets dropped into the electrical area that houses the auger and blower motors. This would not be a good situation either. 

Barnyard840x had 2 Baby's. The 1st one was only for a week before it was returned because of all the defects and problems. But one was lots of fines that fell on auger and area beneath it. 

The way Quadrafires keep the auger at the top (upside down compared to most other stoves), eliminates the need for any sealing at the bottom of the chute. Its sealed completely. 

I seen a bushing set on ebay for $10. Just seen it the other day. I will see if I can find it. There was also a firebrick back kit for the Baby ($100).  

That stove will operate with a Direct vent. I see one on a weekly basis that runs with a 3' section of horizontal. Runs Great too. After a burn pot mod and some new Gaskets under the shell to seal around the hopper, new ash pan gasket, and sealing around the pots edges,  it runs fantastic. This can be a great stove. When worked on a little and ran properly. These stoves dont like a real low setting. 3 or 4 seems to be the sweet spot for them.


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## Don2222 (Apr 23, 2012)

DexterDay said:


> Don, without a Bushing on the back of the auger, there will be a great deal of fines that gets dropped into the electrical area that houses the auger and blower motors. This would not be a good situation either.
> 
> Barnyard840x had 2 Baby's. The 1st one was only for a week before it was returned because of all the defects and problems. But one was lots of fines that fell on auger and area beneath it.
> 
> ...


 
I agree with you on the Babys.

Good point about the Quads. That Auger setup is almost indestructible! Also it works extremely well on a T-Stat and easy to connect the T-Stat right on the terminal block on the back of the stove!

Oh well, sometimes I wish I could take all the good features and make one Super Stove but it may be impossible without patent rights infringement!


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## Don2222 (Apr 23, 2012)

Hello

Found more info on the Magnum Baby CountrySide Auger motor bushing.

from  http://www.americanenergysystems.com/Stock/LibraryFiles/t-0068babywinchestertroubleshooting1.pdf
Auger Motor- The auger motor is located at the base of the auger. The motor is held on be
one set screw to the auger. *There are two bushings on the auger system- one is a bronze*
*bushing located at the top and a delron bushing at the base.* The long bolt next to the auger
motor is meant to act as a stop for the motor. In case of an auger jam the bolt can be
removed to release tension on the motor/auger.
The auger motor does not receive varying voltage- it is either on or off. The on/off time will
vary depending on heat setting. The auger motor for the MagnuM Baby Countryside and
MagnuM Winchester is the same as the fuel stirrer motor on the MagnuM Countryside. If
the auger motor isn’t running check the high limit snap disk, voltage going to the motor,
obstructions in the auger, the vacuum/pressure switch, and continuity of the wiring harness.
If the auger motor is run on a high heat setting and if there isn’t proper air circulation the
motor will overheat and shut off. It is important to have adequate air flow in the room that
the stove is operating in, if not the heat will not transfer to other areas of the home.


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## Don2222 (May 5, 2012)

doug crane said:


> OK folks....here is a secret for you, the ideal material for this app. is called Delrin (a very expensive plastic that last a lifetime, never needs lub, quite forever), the problem is because manufacturers do not wish to pay for this stuff and frankly its TO good a product to expect spare part sales in 10 years they choose not to use it. You may need to make the bushing yourself by purchasing a peice of delrin but try google to find something. My father stove company tested this stuff with incredible success and to this day 20+ years later any applications its been used on have never needed replacing. If you cant find any then PM me and ill mail you a thick piece you can bring to any machineshop and they can drill out a bushing for you that you will never hear squeek and never have to replace or maintain again.... sincerely Doug Crane


 
Hello Doug

American Energy Systems that make Magnum Wood Pellet stoves such as the Baby CountrySide in Minnesota makes Delron bushings (maybe similar to your Delrin) for around the Auger. I saw a Hopper fire that completely disintegrated the plastic bushing. Nothing left!
Magnum and Pelpro both do it in all their stoves because unlike brass bushings they never need lubrication and do not wear out! They just disintegrate when there is a fire!
_*American Energy Systems*_
http://www.americanenergysystems.com/
See my pics here!
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/...stove-hopper-fire-weird-auger-jam-help.86187/


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## Crane Stoves (May 5, 2012)

yea Don...I did not mean to give the indication if set fire to any kind of plastic the outcome is very bad LOL. Delrin is however the most durable and long lasting plastic i know of and its properties allow it to be self lubricating for life (or until such a time as it catches fire HaHa... I use it for everything i do and more because its great to work with (can be drilled, sawed, machined into about anything your heart desires, I happen to get a lead on some of the highest grade delrin from the Gillette Company so if anyone needs a custom piece just shout out and ill slice a chunk of one of the logs i have of this stuff >


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## GMadd (Nov 6, 2014)

Don2222 said:


> Hi Dexter
> Uninsulated Outside vertical venting is part of what I call adverse tolorance stack up for the Baby CountrySide.
> 
> 1. Outside Vertical Venting in a cold climate like the North East here. Not Recommended
> ...


I'm worried because I see no gasket on my hopper lid as you describe.   Does this look right?


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