# Safety chain



## Ashful (Jul 5, 2012)

So, I've thought all along that I was using "safety chain", and had been contemplating experimenting with a more agressive chain on one or all of my saws, based on recommendations made here. Then I picked up this new Husq. T435, and see a chain that is clearly much more "safety" than what I'd been using.

I've been using the Oregon Vanguard 72V chain:




(click for full size)

The new T435 came with the following chain:



(click for full size)

I can see why the T435 chain would be called "safety chain", as it would be nearly impossible to get much bite as the chain rounds the nose of the bar. My Oregon 72V chain is referred to in the Oregon literature as an OSHA safe chain, but lacks the raised tie straps of the T435's chain. I think I've also seen this 72V chain advertised as both "semi chisel" and "round chisel".

Can someone educate me?

Thanks!


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## Bigg_Redd (Jul 5, 2012)

Joful said:


> So, I've thought all along that I was using "safety chain", and had been contemplating experimenting with a more agressive chain on one or all of my saws, based on recommendations made here. Then I picked up this new Husq. T435, and see a chain that is clearly much more "safety" than what I'd been using.
> 
> I've been using the Oregon Vanguard 72V chain:
> 
> ...


 
Didn't you just buy a new saw?  Go ask your dealer.


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## Ashful (Jul 5, 2012)

Bigg_Redd said:


> Go ask your dealer.


 
Sorry.  Thought that was what this forum was for.

Dealer just answered, "it's personal preference."  They don't carry the Oregon chain in question.


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## MasterMech (Jul 5, 2012)

That's exactly what we're for.

Your 72V is green-label because of the folded over rakers. A design I don't care for but it works. The T435's chain has the dreaded raised tie-straps, similar to Stihl's RM2 chain they were pushing awhile back.

If you really want that T435 to cook, Stihl has introduced a full-chisel PICCO chain. Ask for a loop of PS3, it's still green label due to the single-humped drive links but that IMO is the least obtrusive type of safety chain. I always liked PM chain as well, that's a semi-chisel, yellow label chain with no safety devices that's tried and true.

EDIT: While you're there.... pick up a loop of RSC (yellow label)  or RSC3 (green label) chain for your larger saw(s). Gonna be a big difference from that 72V.


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## Ashful (Jul 5, 2012)

Thanks!  I'll see if they have the PS3 or PM chain to fit that saw when I head back tonight for some other stuff.

The 72V cuts pretty well and throws some big chips, compared to other safety chain I've used.  I've never tried a full chisel chain, so I really don't know what I'm missing there.


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## MasterMech (Jul 5, 2012)

Try an RMC3 or RMC chain (for the big saws) if you want to stay with semi-chisel.  Semi often "wins in the pits" due to tolerating dirty wood much better than full chisel.

Anything is better than raised tie-straps.


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## Bigg_Redd (Jul 5, 2012)

My apologies - I wasn't aware that dealers were that useless in your area.


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## HittinSteel (Jul 5, 2012)

Joful. here is what I run on my top handles (or get the 91 VG oregon)

http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=WPL+30LP52&catID=


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## Ashful (Jul 5, 2012)

Thanks!  Looks like what I want is some sort of safety chain without the raised tie straps, whether it be a folded rakers, single bump, or something else along those lines.  I'll see what the local shop has, since they're right in-line with Bailey's pricing when buying more than one chain at a time.


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## ScotO (Jul 5, 2012)

MasterMech said:


> That's exactly what we're for.
> 
> Your 72V is green-label because of the folded over rakers. A design I don't care for but it works. The T435's chain has the dreaded raised tie-straps, similar to Stihl's RM2 chain they were pushing awhile back.
> 
> ...


A big +1 on this.....well said, MM! I have a loop of that new full chisel PICCO chain on my one old 015 (I converted it to 3/8 drive), that chain really kicks a$$ for the smaller saws. Highly recommended!


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## ScotO (Jul 5, 2012)

and BTW I do (on occasion) buy_* used*_ green label raised strap chains off of ebay for dirt cheap. When I get them I grind down the raised hump on the tie straps (carefully and slowly, as to not heat up the strap and weaken the metal) and they are what I use in junk/dirty/metal infested wood. Saves the good chains to use in the good stuff!


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## bogydave (Jul 5, 2012)

Oregon 72LPX. Not green label safety chain,  but some kick back reduction. 
Less aggressive than their  LGX.
Husqvarna chains are Oregon chains just different PN.
I use LPX & got  a great improvement  in cutting speed.
This year I'm trying the Stihl RS, like it so far 
I put a Stihl PMC on my 14" low profile saw, much faster cutting.
here are some references that may help:


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## amateur cutter (Jul 5, 2012)

Stihl RSC for the saws  16" or bigger, & the PS3 for the little one is what I run. Scotty's advice on the green label stuff is good too. I prefer full chisel for anything but stumping, if I get into some dirty wood, I'll just take my ax & clean it off quick. Try a loop of full chisel, & I'll bet you'll never go back. A C


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## Ashful (Jul 5, 2012)

So, I spoke with the owner at the local shop about chains for both the new saws.  He's one of these types that doesn't like to steer you one way or another, but will give good advice if you ask enough of the right questions.  Shame I rarely know what they are...

Anyway, he is not a fan of the Oregon 72V.  Says it cuts great until you get into anything dirty, then it stops.  Like some folks here, based on what I said I was looking for, he recommended RSC or RSC3 for the bigger saw.  I went with two of the RSC3's.

Before I got to the owner, I had one of his sons recommend the PMC3 chain for the wee little T435, so I also got two of them.  Seems to be a similar single bump design to the RSC3.

I know I have to try a full chisel at some point, but right now, I'm willing to give up a little cut speed if it means better safety.


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## ScotO (Jul 5, 2012)

Joful said:


> So, I spoke with the owner at the local shop about chains for both the new saws. He's one of these types that doesn't like to steer you one way or another, but will give good advice if you ask enough of the right questions. Shame I rarely know what they are...
> 
> Anyway, he is not a fan of the Oregon 72V. Says it cuts great until you get into anything dirty, then it stops. Like some folks here, based on what I said I was looking for, he recommended RSC or RSC3 for the bigger saw. I went with two of the RSC3's.
> 
> ...


Nothing wrong with that at all, brother. But when the time comes and you use that full chisel for the first time.............you're gonna LOVE IT.....


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## onetracker (Jul 5, 2012)

bogydave said:


> Oregon 72LPX. Not green label safety chain, but some kick back reduction.
> Less aggressive than their LGX.
> Husqvarna chains are Oregon chains just different PN.
> I use LPX & got a great improvement in cutting speed.
> ...


 

bogy dave - thanks for this cross reference. its very helpful cuz i've only used stihl chains but want to try some other manufacturers. i also want to change up some of my .325 and picco chains so i went looking around and found a link to the table from bailey's. this is proabably old news to many of you but it cleared up alot of consfusion for me.

http://www.baileysonline.com/saw-chain-cross-reference-chart.asp

OT


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## MasterMech (Jul 5, 2012)

Joful said:


> So, I spoke with the owner at the local shop about chains for both the new saws. He's one of these types that doesn't like to steer you one way or another, but will give good advice if you ask enough of the right questions. Shame I rarely know what they are...
> 
> Anyway, he is not a fan of the Oregon 72V. Says it cuts great until you get into anything dirty, then it stops. Like some folks here, based on what I said I was looking for, he recommended RSC or RSC3 for the bigger saw. I went with two of the RSC3's.
> 
> ...


 
You've already crossed the line.  RSC3 is full-chisel chain.  Unless the nose of the bar is buried it's going to cut darn near as fast as yellow-labeled RSC.


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## Ashful (Jul 6, 2012)

Cool!  I'm in it deep now.


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## Danno77 (Aug 18, 2012)

Shoot, I musta been asleep when that full chisel picco came out. I just recently cursed my dad for buying a MS230 just because it had that crappy bar. I wanted him to be able to walk into his dealership and just get new bars and chains, so was slightly peeved that it would be a never ending "order this from baileys" kinda situation. 

This just made my day.


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## Danno77 (Aug 18, 2012)

Oh, sorry, forgot to mention. RSC3 is awesome. You will not regret it. Stays sharp, good chip clearing, great balance/vibration.


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## PA Fire Bug (Aug 18, 2012)

Scotty Overkill said:


> and BTW I do (on occasion) buy_* used*_ green label raised strap chains off of ebay for dirt cheap. When I get them I grind down the raised hump on the tie straps (carefully and slowly, as to not heat up the strap and weaken the metal) and they are what I use in junk/dirty/metal infested wood. Saves the good chains to use in the good stuff!


Can you post a picture of a modified green label chain?  I have two that came with my saw and bought another because I didn't know one chain from another.  Since I now have two yellow label 26RSC74s and three Oregon full chisel 22LPX074G, I don't use the green label chains.I tried to sell them on eBay and at https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...-rapid-micro-comfort-18-inch-saw-chain.86918/ but apparently my price is too high.


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## ScotO (Aug 18, 2012)

PA Fire Bug said:


> Can you post a picture of a modified green label chain? I have two that came with my saw and bought another because I didn't know one chain from another. Since I now have two yellow label 26RSC74s and three Oregon full chisel 22LPX074G, I don't use the green label chains.I tried to sell them on eBay and at https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...-rapid-micro-comfort-18-inch-saw-chain.86918/ but apparently my price is too high.


 I'll try to sneak out of the living room project in the morning and get some pics of one.  Maybe even show you how I do the modification......don't tell anyone...


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## PapaDave (Aug 19, 2012)

"I'll try to sneak out of the living room project in the morning"
Oh no you don't, mister.
Get back in there so we can have some pics. Wait, you're getting pics of chain........uh, carry on.


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## ScotO (Aug 19, 2012)

PapaDave said:


> "I'll try to sneak out of the living room project in the morning"
> Oh no you don't, mister.
> Get back in there so we can have some pics. Wait, you're getting pics of chain........uh, carry on.


 There will be LOTS of pics tomorrow, PD.  I have tons of pics from todays adventure.  We had the train excursion, and then we went and toured the Gettysburg Battlefields too.  What a humbling place.  I'll save that for another thread, don't want to hijack this one.  Don't worry, she's got her eye on me......  I ain't gettin out of that living room project.....


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## Ashful (Aug 19, 2012)

I went back to using my Echo 510EVL with safety chain this morning, after several weeks playing with my new Stihl 064 AV with RSC3 chain. The safety chain, being sharp, threw nice chips. However, they looked almost miniature next to the chips thrown by the RSC3 on the Stihl.

I was also very disappointed with the stall torque of the 510EVL, after playing with the 064 for the last several weeks. It's amazing how a few weeks with a different saw can really change your perception. I think smokinj has me talked into hunting down a 460, or something else a little bigger than my 510EVL for running a 20" bar.


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## MasterMech (Aug 20, 2012)

Danno77 said:


> Shoot, I musta been asleep when that full chisel picco came out. I just recently cursed my dad for buying a MS230 just because it had that crappy bar. I wanted him to be able to walk into his dealership and just get new bars and chains, so was slightly peeved that it would be a never ending "order this from baileys" kinda situation.
> 
> This just made my day.


 
Most new MS230's are shipping with PICCO DURO chain on them now.  That's a carbide chain. I don't recommend trying to file that.


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## Danno77 (Aug 20, 2012)

all I know is that the saw seemed wimpy in comparison to his MS250, but was pretty easy to start because he had the EasyStart system. The primer bulb seemed chintzy. I've never needed to prime any of my saws.

The chain felt like I was just burning through wood even when it was fresh out of the box, was just making fine dust. That doesn't seem right.


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## Jags (Aug 20, 2012)

Joful said:


> It's amazing how a few weeks with a different saw can really change your perception. I think smokinj has me talked into hunting down a 460, or something else a little bigger than my 510EVL for running a 20" bar.


 

It is now too late.  You will never, ever be able to turn back.  Might as well sell the 510.


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## Ashful (Aug 20, 2012)

Jags said:


> It is now too late. You will never, ever be able to turn back. Might as well sell the 510.


 
Just spent the lunch hour looking at used 036's and 044's. Roughly the same weight as the 510EVL (13.2 lb.), but more displacement. However, I do wonder what size modern Stihl it would take to match 51cc's of pre-EPA horsepower. That 510EVL was only available with 20" and 24" bars, which seems to put it inline with the 59cc Stihl 036/360.

Assuming the 036 is just a lateral move, and seeing the price of a clean 044, I might be better off finding ways to mod the 510EVL.


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## Jags (Aug 20, 2012)

Heck, I thought you were going to a 460?  That is a bit different class than the 510/036 range saws.


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## Ashful (Aug 20, 2012)

Jags said:


> Heck, I thought you were going to a 460? That is a bit different class than the 510/036 range saws.


 
Yeah, I would love to, and that was actually my plan a few months back.  Then I talked to two local dealers, who both told me that good used 70cc's saws are damn near impossible to find around here, so went ahead and bought the 85cc 064 AV.  That big saw has me keeping something a bit smaller for all-day use, and the 510EVL seemed to fit the bill.  I just wish it was a little harder to stall it when buried in a 15" round.

A new 460 would suit me nicely, but all the money I've spent on equipment in the last few months is starting to whittle away at my claim that woodburning is going to save us money.    Seems I'll be shopping the used pro saw market, if I replace this Echo at all.


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## Jags (Aug 20, 2012)

Hmmm...you would play heck to stall my 361 in 15" of wood.  I think you might just have to get up and stand on it to do so.  Just say'in.


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## otsegony (Aug 20, 2012)

I just replaced a 510 EVL that I had used for many, many years to cut firewood.  It is still running really well, but it didn't have enough juice now that I am heating pretty close to heating 100% with wood. I ended up with a Husky 562 XP and I am very happy with the decision.  I looked at some Stihl's but the Husky dealer has a much better service department and gave me a better price on the saw. It is amazing how much quicker it is to get through the woodpile using it!


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## Ashful (Aug 20, 2012)

Interesting.  I'm not familiar with the 361, but I'm assuming 59cc.  The 562 is also 59cc.  Maybe it's time to retire the 510EVL, after all.  I'll use the excuse that it has no inertia brake.  

I now have TWO old saws to sell...


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## Nixon (Aug 20, 2012)

otsegony said:


> I just replaced a 510 EVL that I had used for many, many years to cut firewood.  It is still running really well, but it didn't have enough juice now that I am heating pretty close to heating 100% with wood. I ended up with a Husky 562 XP and I am very happy with the decision.  I looked at some Stihl's but the Husky dealer has a much better service department and gave me a better price on the saw. It is amazing how much quicker it is to get through the woodpile using it!


The 562 is a wonderful saw . I love mine ! One thing you may want to check though, there are a few service bulletins out on it ,the 555,and the 550 . Nothing that is really major . I just got mine back from the shop for the replacement of the case screws.it was part of one of the s/b's . Mine were coming lose as stated could happen . Fixed no charge . With any luck, I pick up  a shines new 550 Thursday !


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## Jags (Aug 20, 2012)

The 510 has NO advertised HP that I can find (or RPM for that matter), so I really can't tell you how much difference you will notice from that machine to a 362.


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## Ashful (Aug 20, 2012)

Yeah... I've had several old saws, and none of them had an advertised HP.  Seems that must be something manufacturers didn't do back then?

In any case... I'll start crusing for used Stihls.  Having recently fondled and bought both Husqvarna's and Stihl's, I can say the next saw will definitely be a Stihl.


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