# Coal insert - Hitzer 983



## Hobokenkitchen (Feb 7, 2015)

We are seriously considering replacing the exploded E2 with a Hitzer 983. 
They say we can probably get one with a couple of week's lead time. 

We are considering the double door option from an aesthetic standpoint because it looks awesome. 

I am concerned about locating a decent grade of bagged coal in a local enough area, so we have some research to do on that. 

Does anyone have any comments on this stove?

We're waiting to hear from the head installer at Wood Heat about the possibilities for install. 

I'm actually pretty happy with how Wood Heat is handling this so far. Let's see how it ends.


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## bobdog2o02 (Feb 7, 2015)

I saw this model at my local stove shop earlier today and thought to myself "that thing is a tank, I bet it THROWS HEAT."

If I was thinking coal, it would be a hitzer.


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## John Fortier (Feb 7, 2015)

Have you read the post here.." Just bought a Hitzer 908...It is very interesting and may inform you quit a bit.


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## SidecarFlip (Feb 7, 2015)

Personally, I think coal is a bit over the top for you.  It's not 'set it and forget it' like pellets are and even with a stoker unit it still takes finesse to start the fire, no auto igniter in a coal stove.


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## Michael6268 (Feb 8, 2015)

You wont regret going with a Hitzer. I owm a Hitzer50-93.
Dont worry about it being "over the top for you"  ??
Most likely you will start it once and leave it going. Lot less work than pellets. If you read this forum regularly you will quickly learn pellet stoves break down and need constant cleaning. All I hear lately is "deep cleaning" , "leaf blowers to clean" etc. Its like a 2nd job for a lot of people on this site. Your stove is a handfired. No moving parts or electonics to break and no internal cleaning every few days. I clean mine once a year end of season. Check pipes for ash build up mid season.


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## rich2500 (Feb 8, 2015)

625 lbs.  what a beast, as long as you can find coal locally which should not be a problem here in PA. I would be all over that Hitzer


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## Hobokenkitchen (Feb 8, 2015)

Getting it into our house might be a bit of a challenge. I'll bear that in mind as it might take at least one extra guy to get it in (we have steps). 

We need to call around and find out what our coal options are. I've googled and it looks do'able, but I need to check into it further.  

The 983 says it can burn either coal or wood which was a surprise. Does this mean we could use logs in it when the weather warms up a bit? I have some research to do on that too. 

Thanks for the encouragement (to most of you). Lol.


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## tjnamtiw (Feb 8, 2015)

The Hitzer 983 is NOT a stoker stove but a hand fired stove.  If you couldn't properly run a Quad, I seriously doubt you can properly deal with a hand fired coal stove.  You need a stoker to have any chance of keeping it going.  Hand fired stoves are the hardest to keep going for the newbies.

Edit: Hitzer doesn't make a stoker fireplace insert but they have a gravity fed hopper design, which COULD work for you.  The Model 503 EZ Flow Hopper Insert is the one.  http://www.hitzer.com/products/stove/Model-503-E_Z-Flo-Hopper-Fireplace-Insert/

Or you could just get your money back and go to another dealer who handles stoker inserts like Keystoker.


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## Peterfield (Feb 8, 2015)

When I burned coal in a surdiac stove, I loved the heat and the blue flame when all was well, but when it went out, it was a groan to get started and if you overtired it on startup, you could easily warp the grates which I did on more than one occasion.  There was a dust issue back then with anthracite coal but I had build delivery and I understand the bags of coal are not dusty at all.  Also, fly ash from coal is very light and it is easy to make a mess.  Having said that, I will admit that the stoker stoves I'm reading about here have captured my interest.


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## SidecarFlip (Feb 8, 2015)

You still have to manually start a stoker with the same procedure as starting a hand fired (no auto ignite).  Coal (hard) is finiky to start.  IMO pellets are more convenient than coal but coal is a more consistent heat (once the fire bed is established) but just shaking down a hand fired unit improperly can extinguish the fire.  There is a bug learning curve involved thats absent entirely with wood pellets.


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## Hobokenkitchen (Feb 8, 2015)

tjnamtiw said:


> The Hitzer 983 is NOT a stoker stove but a hand fired stove.  If you couldn't properly run a Quad, I seriously doubt you can properly deal with a hand fired coal stove.  You need a stoker to have any chance of keeping it going.  Hand fired stoves are the hardest to keep going for the newbies.
> 
> Edit: Hitzer doesn't make a stoker fireplace insert but they have a gravity fed hopper design, which COULD work for you.  The Model 503 EZ Flow Hopper Insert is the one.  http://www.hitzer.com/products/stove/Model-503-E_Z-Flo-Hopper-Fireplace-Insert/
> 
> Or you could just get your money back and go to another dealer who handles stoker inserts like Keystoker.



Listen I am trying to take in the useful information you post, but once again you cloud your post in such condescension that it is difficult for me to read past that. We did nothing wrong with the stove. Ok? Even the manufacturer and the dealer acknowledge that this was not a user error situation. So please stop with the comments about our inability to run a Quad.


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## Coal Ivy (Feb 8, 2015)

SidecarFlip said:


> Personally, I think coal is a bit over the top for you.  It's not 'set it and forget it' like pellets are and even with a stoker unit it still takes finesse to start the fire, no auto igniter in a coal stove.


I can only speak to the process of starting my Hitzer 608.  

1.  Put 2 or 3 handfuls of coal on the burn area.
2.  Put wood chunks we had going from wood stove on coal.
3.  Give it 2 minutes.
4.  Turn on unit, thereby kicking on combustion fan.
5.  Done.

It's been lit for about10 days, without the need to restart.
It's 37 here today.  Thing has been running on "0" feed rate since last night, which means it's feeding the lowest rate possible.

When it comes time to restart again, when I don't have a fire burning:


1.  Put 2 or 3 handfuls of coal on the burn area.
2.  Put handful of wood pellets on coal.
3.  Add lighter gel.
4.  Light with Bic.
5.  Give 2 minutes.
6.  Turn on stove.  Done.


In the long run, I fully expect the 608 to be less work than a pellet stove.  The feed mechanism is NOT an auger.  It is a steel plate that slides back and forth, just like that quarter game you see where the quarters are all laying there and a plate is sliding back and forth, tantalizing you to put a quarter in to overload and cause the quarters to fall out.  

My good friend has a dual coal/wood stove.  He loves it.  Burns coal in the cold months and wood in the shoulders.  Sure, coal requires more energy to start, but it's not more "difficult" than wood - it just requires a different system.  Just get your system worked out and you'll be fine.

I know this for sure - more people by the millions have burned coal over the years than have burned wood pellets, and they managed.


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## SidecarFlip (Feb 8, 2015)

...Hobroken...  by all means, get that Hitzer, sooner the better........


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## Michael6268 (Feb 8, 2015)

Starting coal fires has never been a problem for me.
Handfired- small hot wood fire and start adding smalll amounts of coal on top.

Stoker even easier- handful of wood pellets a little gel starter and turn it on low till it catches.


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## Hobokenkitchen (Feb 8, 2015)

SidecarFlip said:


> ...Hobroken...  by all means, get that Hitzer, sooner the better........



You're the other one who has consistently been condescending. 

Everyone has been nothing but helpful and raised useful questions/ concerns. 

You two have too. If you could hold on to the sarcasm and condescension it would be a much more pleasant place to come and ask questions. 

I'm out.


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## SidecarFlip (Feb 8, 2015)

Hobokenkitchen said:


> You're the other one who has consistently been condescending.
> 
> Everyone has been nothing but helpful and raised useful questions/ concerns.
> 
> ...


 
I changed ny opinion, go get one. have it installed and live happily ever after.....


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## Hobokenkitchen (Feb 8, 2015)

SidecarFlip said:


> I changed ny opinion, go get one. have it installed and live happily ever after.....



Thanks. Just don't fall off your high horse. I'd hate for you to get hurt.


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## tjnamtiw (Feb 8, 2015)

Coal Ivy said:


> I can only speak to the process of starting my Hitzer 608.
> 
> 1.  Put 2 or 3 handfuls of coal on the burn area.
> 2.  Put wood chunks we had going from wood stove on coal.
> ...


The difference between your 608 and a 683 is like night and day.  But if Hoboken learns how to properly shake down and feed the 683, she should have no problems.  Remove dead ashes, open bottom air all the way, put a layer of coal on top of fire, wait for blue ladies to dance through the coal, shake down, load the stove with coal to the top of the fire brick, wait for blue ladies again, and then lower air flow to the heat you need.  That's it.
No condescension in that one.  Just the facts, ma'am.


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## Hobokenkitchen (Feb 8, 2015)

tjnamtiw said:


> The difference between your 608 and a 683 is like night and day.  But if Hoboken learns how to properly shake down and feed the 683, she should have no problems.  Remove dead ashes, open bottom air all the way, put a layer of coal on top of fire, wait for blue ladies to dance through the coal, shake down, load the stove with coal to the top of the fire brick, wait for blue ladies again, and then lower air flow to the heat you need.  That's it.
> No condescension in that one.  Just the facts, ma'am.




And those are useful. Exactly what we need. 
Thank you.


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## tjnamtiw (Feb 8, 2015)

Hobokenkitchen said:


> And those are useful. Exactly what we need.
> Thank you.


I'd still lobby for the 503 gravity feed.  Should be about the same price.


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## tjnamtiw (Feb 8, 2015)

https://www.lehmans.com/p-3131-large-hitzer-coal-heat-stoves.aspx?show=all

this is the 503 with the gravity feed.  $1849.  I bet you paid way more than that for the E2!


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## Hobokenkitchen (Feb 8, 2015)

tjnamtiw said:


> https://www.lehmans.com/p-3131-large-hitzer-coal-heat-stoves.aspx?show=all
> 
> this is the 503 with the gravity feed.  $1849.  I bet you paid way more than that for the E2!



More than double. 
I'll look into this model as well. 
Thanks!


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## alternativeheat (Feb 8, 2015)

Hobokenkitchen said:


> And those are useful. Exactly what we need.
> Thank you.


There is a certain level of satisfaction in running a hand fired coal Stove. There is a warmth in the house like no other heat, no question. There also is a certain level of task involved. You can't miss the window of opportunity to reload the stove. If you do that too late into the previous burn cycle you snuff the stove out. No amount of tinkering with hot coals and tenderly adding fuel will save the fire and after you waste a whole bunch of time you end up just refiring the stove from scratch anyway, generally speaking. With that said, obviously when you need to be home you need to be home to tend the stove and in this way hand fired coal stoves are different from stokers or pellet stoves. The latter giving you more leeway if you are out shopping and time runs by or have to work and extra hour or two one day and can't be there to tend the coal stove. And this has to be done day in and day out, sick, healthy, indifferent, the stove doesn't care. That is different from stokers or pellets stoves. Some Stokers run for days on a full hopper of coal. Same for some pellets stoves or certainly an extra couple of hours when needed.

Secondly is building a good solid coal fire to begin with in a hand fired coal stove is nothing like wood or a stoker. Absolutely there is a learning curve, one I learned very well myself some 35 years ago fwiw !! You have to have that desire in you though or running a coal stove will get very old very fast. I used to keep pallet slats on hand ( broken pallets, mostly hard wood ones) and I would split those slats into about 1-2" wide pieces ( need a hatchet is all) maybe 9" long and build a grid in the stove 3 -4 layers deep, criss cross each layer tick tack toe style. Light that sucker off with balls of news paper and get the wood fire raging. When fully involved start with a scoop at a time throwing in coal. There comes a point where the fires has burned down to wood coals and the anthracite is on top licking with blue flame. Let that catch pretty good and keep loading coal, every 30-40 seconds. You will see a red glow in the ash door when you open it under the shaker grade and blue flames on top of the black coal. You got it, you won !

That's lighting a hand fired coal stove, a stoker a whole different thing. Now every time you decided to return home too late to catch the refueling of the stove. you will end up cleaning out the stove of all hot ash and coals and starting over doing what I just described above or a similar system. So if you want to mess with hand fired know the circumstances.


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## tjnamtiw (Feb 8, 2015)

Hobokenkitchen said:


> More than double.
> I'll look into this model as well.
> Thanks!


Watch the video on the link of how to tend the EZ Flow.  A lot less work but they still owe you a bunch to break even.  Do they sell any other brands of coal stoves?


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## Coal Ivy (Feb 8, 2015)

SidecarFlip said:


> I changed ny opinion, go get one. have it installed and live happily ever after.....


Seriously man, why are you like this?
Guy is just asking for help.  Why all the nastiness?
Why is it so hard for some people to be nice?  Or, at least, to resist from being constantly demeaning, insulting, and pejorative?

It's really easy to give advice/input that is constructive.  It really is.


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## Coal Ivy (Feb 8, 2015)

tjnamtiw said:


> The difference between your 608 and a 683 is like night and day.


No doubt!


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## Michael6268 (Feb 8, 2015)

You can "easily go 24 hrs (even longer on low) without losing your fire....


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## tjnamtiw (Feb 8, 2015)

Michael6268 said:


> You can "easily go 24 hrs (even longer on low) without losing your fire....


On WHAT?  A hand fed or a hopper fed?  Are you saying not to even shake it down for 24 hours? Let it completely alone for 24 hours? Impossible. Not even Hitzer says that in their video.  'On maximum heat, shake it down up to 4 times'.  You have a stoker, which is a completely different animal.


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## alternativeheat (Feb 8, 2015)

I like the Reading Lehigh Stoker. If I continued with coal thats the stove I was interested in. I believe it burns rice or pea coal.


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## gfreek (Feb 8, 2015)

I burned coal for years in a hand fed Harman Mark I.  The trick is starting the fire, wood pellets help with that or starter/kindling wood, when and how much  to shake the grate, (I usually did mine morning, late afternoon, and at night before stoking the fire for overnight burn),,.. when to add more coal, how much coal to add.  Be aware coal produces more ash than wood or pellets.  Do not dump ashes in garden..You need a good draft in your chimney.. I hope for the best for you in this....


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## Michael6268 (Feb 8, 2015)

tjnamtiw said:


> On WHAT?  A hand fed or a hopper fed?  Are you saying not to even shake it down for 24 hours? Let it completely alone for 24 hours? Impossible. Not even Hitzer says that in their video.  'On maximum heat, shake it down up to 4 times'.  You have a stoker, which is a completely different animal.



ABSOLUTELY!!
Hitzer hopper handfed
On low I can let that thing go "EASILY" 24+ hrs without even looking at it. On high i could go 24 hours but heat output would deminish, but no way would it go out!! Today ive had it simmering at a constant 450degs going on 18 hrs now. Going to tend in an hour or two. Last year end of season it took 3 days to go out.


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## alternativeheat (Feb 8, 2015)

I.m curious how you run a Hopper Hand Fired stover. How does that all work ?


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## Michael6268 (Feb 8, 2015)

Instead of opening the door and shoveling in scoops of coal, you fill from the top. Small door in top. The hopper is kinda like a funnel over the fire area. You fill the hopper to the top. Usually holds approx 50 lbs of coal. As the fire burn and ash settles, the coal feeds itself by gravity. When yoou tend the stove and shake, more coal comes down. Then just dump more coal in the top.


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## tjnamtiw (Feb 8, 2015)

alternativeheat said:


> I curious how you run a Hopper Hand Fired stover. How does that all work ?


You beat me to it, alt!  Hopper, hand fed, and stoker are three COMPLETELY different stoves.  Perhaps, you need to change your 'signature' 6268 to include that hybrid you have.   
You must have really found some super low ash coal to go 24 hours without shaking.


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## tjnamtiw (Feb 8, 2015)

Michael6268 said:


> Instead of opening the door and shoveling in scoops of coal, you fill from the top. Small door in top. The hopper is kinda like a funnel over the fire area. You fill the hopper to the top. Usually holds approx 50 lbs of coal. As the fire burn and ash settles, the coal feeds itself by gravity. When yoou tend the stove and shake, more coal comes down. Then just dump more coal in the top.


I had a Franco Belge hopper fed, so I know how they work.  So you DO shake it down during the day.  Change of story now.


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## SidecarFlip (Feb 8, 2015)

Shak'in all over..................


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## alternativeheat (Feb 9, 2015)

Michael6268 said:


> Instead of opening the door and shoveling in scoops of coal, you fill from the top. Small door in top. The hopper is kinda like a funnel over the fire area. You fill the hopper to the top. Usually holds approx 50 lbs of coal. As the fire burn and ash settles, the coal feeds itself by gravity. When yoou tend the stove and shake, more coal comes down. Then just dump more coal in the top.


So a Hand shaken Auto fed stove then.


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## Michael6268 (Feb 9, 2015)

tjnamtiw said:


> I had a Franco Belge hopper fed, so I know how they work.  So you DO shake it down during the day.  Change of story now.



No change of story. Never said I didnt shake it during the day. If home and burning hard I try to shake every 12 hrs. Never any sooner unless I know I wont be there I will shake early strictly for convenience.  When burning less hard I will let it go 24-36 hrs as stated "EASILY"!
No change of story. Apparently the problem is 2 people dont know how to read!


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## Michael6268 (Feb 9, 2015)

alternativeheat said:


> So a Hand shaken Auto fed stove then.



Not auto, gravity fed. 
And yes it is considered a hand fed. And anyone with even limited knowlege of coal stoves, knows you can over fill/pile up coal in non hopper stoves and get almost the same effects as a hopper.


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## alternativeheat (Feb 9, 2015)

Michael6268 said:


> Not auto, gravity fed.
> And yes it is considered a hand fed. And anyone with even limited knowlege of coal stoves, knows you can over fill/pile up coal in non hopper stoves and get almost the same effects as a hopper.


What controls the drop feed/ amount of coal ? How is it gauged in other words. I know that the fire bed  drops the coal is fed through the hopper system but what in the system allows X amount of new coal to drop, maintaining a proper level ?


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## Michael6268 (Feb 9, 2015)

You guys want to live in denial about pellet vs coal? Go for it!
Less demand for coal means cheaper prices for us. You can pay your $350.00 or more a ton when oil Is cheaper. Go ahead. While you are on your hands and knees doing your "deep cleanings" and using your "leaf blowers on your stoves instead of leaves, im sitting with my Honey nice and warm sipping on a beer. Enjoy!


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## alternativeheat (Feb 9, 2015)

Michael6268 said:


> Not auto, gravity fed.
> And yes it is considered a hand fed. And anyone with even limited knowlege of coal stoves, knows you can over fill/pile up coal in non hopper stoves and get almost the same effects as a hopper.


over filling never accomplished anything in my coal stove. Always was best to fill to the top of the fire brick. To fill more than that was just good for a nice ash bind up about 12 hours into the burn cycle or there abouts. I'd end up raking with a poker. That's all over filling ever got me in 35+ years of  burning coal. Course my stove was not a Coal King that was built to be over filled.


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## Michael6268 (Feb 9, 2015)

alternativeheat said:


> What controls the drop feed/ amount of coal ? How is it gauged in other words. I know that the fire bed  drops the coal is fed through the hopper system but what in the system allows X amount of new coal to drop, maintaining a proper level ?



The hopper is only a few inches above the main coal bed. It only lets in what has been displaced by burning/settling. 
Its like if you filled a soda bottle with sand and flipped it upside down and held about an inch fron the table top. Only so much sand would come out till some gets moved/displaced.


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## Michael6268 (Feb 9, 2015)

alternativeheat said:


> over filling never accomplished anything in my coal stove. Always was best to fill to the top of the fire brick. To fill more than that was just good for a nice ash bind up about 112 hours into the burn cycle or there abouts. I'd end up raking with a poker. That's all over filling ever got me in 35+ years of  burning coal. Course my stove was not a Coal King that was built to be over filled.



If you ever get back into coal (im assuming you not right now) try a hopper stove. Makes it that much easier. You'd like it I think.


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## alternativeheat (Feb 9, 2015)

Michael6268 said:


> If you ever get back into coal (im assuming you not right now) try a hopper stove. Makes it that much easier. You'd like it I think.


Maybe so.


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## Michael6268 (Feb 9, 2015)

alternativeheat said:


> Maybe so.



Or even better for some- a stoker. I had one for years and liked it. Sold with our old home and decided on the handfired due to more frequent power outages in this area.


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## velvetfoot (Feb 9, 2015)

Does that hopper stove have a blower, and if so, it still throws out heat during an outage?  Nice that it works in a power outage.


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## Michael6268 (Feb 9, 2015)

velvetfoot said:


> Does that hopper stove have a blower, and if so, it still throws out heat during an outage?  Nice that it works in a power outage.


You can get with or without blower. We got the blower. The stove throws a ton of radiant heat even with it off. We us the blower most of the time in the colder months.


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## velvetfoot (Feb 9, 2015)

It sounds like it works a lot better than those pellet stoves that don't use power we've seen lately.


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## alternativeheat (Feb 9, 2015)

velvetfoot said:


> It sounds like it works a lot better than those pellet stoves that don't use power we've seen lately.


The whole original concept of a coal stove was to have no power ( think of the old spired parlor stoves much like the Chubby looked). They work silently heating with tons of radiant heat. To add a blower obviously enhances heat distribution.. Kind of like a wood stove with no blower but a much much slower heating curve with coal, so you get long  duration heat. What I like about coal is my wife and I both have allergies, much of which is dust or pollen related. Pellets are dusty and it's wood dust so resins and pollen has to be there to some degree. What I don't care for about coal stoves is the large quantity of ash, as in a daily dump of the ash bin. Useless ash, it has no good use in your yard where wood ash is fairly neutral in that regard and much less of it. But anthracite coal is not particularly dusty and what there is doesn't bother us physically. And at that you can wet coal , it then leaves no dust at all. Water and snow have no ill effect on coal what so ever.


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## Michael6268 (Feb 9, 2015)

alternativeheat said:


> The whole original concept of a coal stove was to have no power ( think of the old spired parlor stoves much like the Chubby looked). They work silently heating with tons of radiant heat. To add a blower obviously enhances heat distribution.. Kind of like a wood stove with no blower but a much much slower heating curve with coal, so you get long  duration heat. What I like about coal is my wife and I both have allergies, much of which is dust or pollen related. Pellets are dusty and it's wood dust so resins and pollen has to be there to some degree. What I don't care for about coal stoves is the large quantity of ash, as in a daily dump of the ash bin. Useless ash, it has no good use in your yard where wood ash is fairly neutral in that regard and much less of it. But anthracite coal is not particularly dusty and what there is doesn't bother us physically. And at that you can wet coal , it then leaves no dust at all. Water and snow have no ill effect on coal what so ever.




Ditto to all that. Yes I like that coal is impervious to water. My supply is out in the snow right now.


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## velvetfoot (Feb 9, 2015)

Michael6268 said:


> My supply is out in the snow right now.


How is it stored, if I may ask?  Bags?  Does one have to be worried about runoff, like for the plants?


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## alternativeheat (Feb 9, 2015)

Michael6268 said:


> Ditto to all that. Yes I like that coal is impervious to water. My supply is out in the snow right now.


I have a coal room in the basement, this house was heated with coal back in the day ( central register in the floor now  hard wood floor but you can see the change in wood pattern where the register was). But that room is so damp no way I could store bulk pellets in there, I used to have the coal shot down the window in bulk, 3 tons at a time. It could probably hold eight to ten tons.


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## Michael6268 (Feb 9, 2015)

Its bagged. But I have used bulk in the past. Only thing with bulk if it gets wet and then freezes, its nearly impossible to scoop up. I kept the bulk covered.
I never did a soil test or anything,  but I dont think run off would be an issue. Anthracite coal is very hard and non porous. Its rock like. You could put it in a bucket of water practicality forever, and it wouldnt even cloud the water Unless it was dusty to begin with. But generally bagged coal isnt dusty. Bulk can be a little due to the handling/abrasivness. If I got a batch of dusty bulk I just wet it down a little.


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## tjnamtiw (Feb 9, 2015)

velvetfoot said:


> How is it stored, if I may ask?  Bags?  Does one have to be worried about runoff, like for the plants?


runoff is for the ash from burning bituminous coal in the plants.  Not a concern here.


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