# Tips on quotes for re-siding a house



## joefrompa (Apr 27, 2011)

Hi all,

About to get some quotes to re-side my house. It's a medium-sized 2-story 1970s colonial - interior square footage is around 2300, not too large by today's standards though I could definitely go smaller personally...

Anyway, there is enough wrong with the siding that I'm starting to feel it'll be a good idea to re-side. My current siding is a mix of faux-tudor, wood panel, and asbestos shingle. It's not properly tied into the roof where it meets a vertical wall (causing a leak/leaks), the drip caps are all rotted, the corner beads on the asbestos are aluminum and they are messed up, and generally it looks a bit worn out and needs to be addressed. About 1/8th of the house is sided in brick, which is in great condition. 

So I'm planning on going with vinyl siding and new vinyl gutters. Additionally i'll probably ask them to re-frame the garage doors, as the wooden 2x8's that were used there are pretty beat up and there is a massive gap between the wood framing and the wood paneling, which originally had a thick bead of caulk put around it to seal the garage frame to the siding (seriously?).

I'm looking for tips and advice here - I have no experience and a limited budget. What should I definitely tackle while doing this? What's not worthwhile? Any ideas on what something like this should cost?

Thanks all,

Joe


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## nate379 (Apr 27, 2011)

Not sure how you figure that isn't too large.  I would say the avg house around here are close to 1/2 that size.


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## joefrompa (Apr 27, 2011)

Hi Nate,

I realize it's very large by some standards. Around here, the average house is about 2800-3000 square foot. Newer construction (until the recession) was more like 3500 square feet. 

My ideal home, which I hope to build one day, will be a ~1800 square foot ranch with a basement.


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## BrotherBart (Apr 27, 2011)

Average house size in the U.S. is 2330 sq. ft.

I don't have any advice but will be watching the responses since both a roofing and siding job on our house is on the horizon.


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## joefrompa (Apr 27, 2011)

B-Bart,

FYI, one of my major current problems is that a new roof was put over the old one and improperly tied into the siding where a vertical wall came through the roof. So water is channeling down the perfectly good roof, hitting the wall, and then NOT being directed away and out from the wall properly.

I've got to tell you, I plan on building a ranch home one day that is a square building with no chimney, no peaks, and no skylights. Just a simple roof. On two homes now, I've had issues with people flashing the roof correctly against intrusions (i.e. chimney, walls). 

I go back and forth on going with a stone siding on my next home. It's fixed and hard to repair/replace, and expensive, but it's damn near impermeable and fireproof when done correctly.


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## fossil (Apr 27, 2011)

When we remodeled our home in Northern Virginia, we went with vinyl siding.  Meh...it fades and warps and just didn't impress me.  When we remodeled our home out here in Oregon, we went with a noncombustible siding product made by these folks:

http://www.jameshardie.com/

Couldn't be happier.  Roof is noncombustible concrete tile.  I'd say you need a really good contractor to address your issues with water and get it done right for you.  Rick


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## joefrompa (Apr 27, 2011)

Obscenely beautiful home you've got there. I love that style roof tile. What on earth did that siding set you back? if it's appropriate to share...


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## fossil (Apr 27, 2011)

The siding I'm talking about is the stuff on the second floor in that pic.  All the brick you see was original to the house, built in about 1975 or so.  We changed that house substantially when we remodeled...inside and out.  Took nearly a year.  The brick that was used for the bases of the pillars you see for the porch roof was salvaged from the demo of the exterior of the second floor that was going to be changed.  There's a good deal more of that HardieBoard siding on parts of the house not shown in this pic.  I haven't a clue what it cost me...my builder (and very good friend) sent me bills and I paid them.  Same guy built a building across the driveway from our home the year before we moved from Virginia.  It houses a workshop, a couple of garages, and an upstairs guest apartment.  Same siding used (again, I'm not talking about the brick).  I'll attach a pic of the building across the driveway.  Rick


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## woodsmaster (Apr 27, 2011)

I would recommend that if you are going to use vinyl go with a good brand. A few I recommend would be Alcoa mastic, Certineed, and Royal building products. Also change any bad windows,
install insulation if needed. Don't use the 1/4" fanfod it dont have much R-value and is a waste of money in my opinion. Have housewrap installed and make sure they tape the seams.
Personally I would go with aluminum seamless gutters. The vinyl seem to fall apart. Find a good contractor that Knows how to flash your roof. don't necessarily hire the cheapest guy, 
sometimes you get what you pay for.


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## woodgeek (Apr 28, 2011)

I had the same flashing problem on second layer asphalt roof tied into a asbestos siding, and my roofer was able to flash a new roof (tear-off) behind the asbestos without replacing the siding.  I will probably do the siding in the future (i.e. when I've recovered from the price of the tear off roof job).

Have you got a second opinion on fixing the siding?


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## joefrompa (Apr 28, 2011)

Not yet, working on getting a second opinion.

Woodsmaster - Talked to a siding contractor last night (over the phone) and he said he carried Certainteed and Crane. He recommended going with foam-backed vinyl siding and, though he wasn't entirely clear on it, I believe not just because of the r-value but also because of the structural integrity of such siding. He seemed to not like "hollow back" vinyl.

All my windows are in good shape - they are 8-9 year old andersen casement and seal up very well overall. 

By install insulation, do you mean that would apply to a 1970s home with pre-existing batts in the walls? I don't know how thick or good it is, but when I drill into an outside wall I get yellow batt insulation coming back out with the drill bit.

What is fanfod? I've never heard that term and don't recognize it.One installer, the most reputable, referenced using 1/4-1/2" (he didn't specify) hard foamboard as something that is attached to the house as a base layer.

I will have the house wrapped and taped - anyone who doesn't indicate that's a core part of the job will not be chosen.

Vinyl gutters seem to fall apart after how long? I thought aluminum was much more expensive and/or needed to be painted (I'd stick with white vinyl)?


Definitely not going with the cheapest guy on this one, hopefully just the best.


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## Marsh Rat (Apr 28, 2011)

First off I would go with seamless aluminum gutters.  Mine are 10 years old and still look new.  Vinyl gutters seem to leak and fall apart after 2-4 years.  Plus not very good looking hanging on your house. Last year I resided the house and went with the cement board siding. Just a much better product in my mind.  Worked construction for 10 years before switching to the hearth business.  So I have installed all types of siding.  The vinyl siding on the house was so bleached out after 7 years it just had to go.  That was one of the projects on the list when we bought the house 5 years ago and finally got around to it last year.   After siding the house this winter I burned 1 full cord less of wood, seemed like a regular winter and I will see if it holds tru next winter.    Few pics of the house before and after.  This year is the brick around the house and colums for the deck posts to sit on.  4 pallets of brick waiting for me when road limits go off.  As you can see its still snowing out in the last picture.


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## joefrompa (Apr 28, 2011)

What do you attribute the reduced wood burning too since cement board has no real r-value? House wrap? Re-sealing everything? 

It's interesting - the guy I spoke to last night offered cement board but recommended against it for consumers (at least people getting it installed) as an overpriced option for what it offered his customers. He recommended foam-backed vinyl, as his personal preference and recommendation. One guy, one opinion. 

I don't mind if the vinyl fades a bit in 7 years honestly - as long as it looks good and is well installed until then  Also, from what I've heard, a quality product like certainteed siding will retain almost 100% of it's pigment even after a decade versus cheap siding.

Good stuff on the aluminum gutters - I'm starting to want to go that way.


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## Marsh Rat (Apr 28, 2011)

I would say that cement board has more R value than vinyl siding.  I went with the 3/8 instead of the cheaper 5/16th siding also.  The R value of 3/8 cement is 1.09 and vinyl is .53.  (hollow backed)  I didn't change the way I burned the stove or anything else.  Just my observation like I said we will see if it holds tru next year.  The house even stays cooler in the summer since putting it on.  We have no air conditioning because it cools off into the 60's every night.  Whole house fan is all we use in the summer.  House had house wrap on when I took off the vinly.  I would say the house is a little tighter due to caulking but really not that much caulking is done with this stuff.  Just where it butts into trim and corner boards.

Most siding contractors don't like it because it's 4 times slower and more time consuming to install.  I could have did my house in a weekend instead of 4 weeks.   Took alittle longer because I had to build a chase around pipe and rebuild other to match.


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## joefrompa (Apr 28, 2011)

So honestly I'm wondering why your house is so much better at retaining it's temperature. Your house sounds like it was well sealed too. So why would it change alot? 

Btw, I'm looking at foam backed vinyl which has an r-value of 4.0.


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## woodsmaster (Apr 29, 2011)

joefrompa said:
			
		

> Not yet, working on getting a second opinion.
> 
> Woodsmaster - Talked to a siding contractor last night (over the phone) and he said he carried Certainteed and Crane. He recommended going with foam-backed vinyl siding and, though he wasn't entirely clear on it, I believe not just because of the r-value but also because of the structural integrity of such siding. He seemed to not like "hollow back" vinyl.
> 
> ...



With good siding you really dont have to have the backer in there but if its the same price as adding 1/2" foamboard it may be a good option. If your walls are 2 x 4 you may want more like an inch of foamboard. If they are 2 x 6 you wouldn't need as much if any. cement board is nice but more money and will need painted once in a while.


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## joefrompa (Apr 29, 2011)

2x4 exterior walls, and if I can simply go with a solid 1" of foamboard and a good quality thick vinyl, seems like that would be a better option...? Or perhaps they are talking about doing 1/2" foamboard AND foam-backed vinyl...? Hmmm..


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## woodsmaster (Apr 29, 2011)

Either way would be good. Sometimes when you add thickness to the wall you have to re-trim the windows so maybe if you went 1/2" foam board and insulated siding you wouldn't have to build the window trim out and that may save a little money ? Just depends on your situation and there prices.


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## peakbagger (Apr 29, 2011)

With regards to installing foam board, yes it can work but it also can cause significant mold issues if the house doesnt have good vapor barriers on the interior walls. Otherwise vapor from inside the house can migrate through the walls during the winter and collect on the interior face of the foam. Secondly, there can be substantial retrimming required to make sure that exterior water doesnt get behind the foam. The windows need to be retrimmed with new flashing that runs over the face of the foam. The traditional contractor method is to install extra height trim with a channel around it to the underlying siding, it looks good but when there is driving rain and water gets into the the new trim there is a good chance that it goes behind the foam and eventually forms mold. The other comment is that carpernter ants love foam board, even though the standard thought is that they will only nest in wet wood, they will tunnel through foam. Once they are in there its close to implossible to get them out. Make sure you flash the bottom of the faom with metal so they cant get started.


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## joefrompa (Apr 29, 2011)

Hmm, so maybe there are some good advantages to foam-backed vinyl siding rather than foam board?

I have carpenter ants "at the ready" - they don't appear to be directly attacking the house, but I find one or two workers in the house on a daily basis in the warmer months. When I bought the house 9 months ago, there were too many of them beforehand so we had it inspected and sprayed as part of the buying process. They weren't infesting, but they were present in sufficient numbers to benefit from a thorough treatment, if that makes sense.


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## gpcollen1 (May 3, 2011)

I had mine done last fall.  I had the vinyl 'shakes' put up instead of the clapboard.  It was an extra few thousand $$ but it looks 1000 times better.  My biggest issue is with the installer of course.  I was there 3 out of 5 days and of course they messed stuff up the 2 days i was not watching them.  Stuff like putting up the pieces for the sconce lights on the outside so now I have to put the surface ones on that do not look like the ones on the other side of the house.  The installed a gable vent piece even though that peak has no attic to vent - and they did not insulate under it b/c you would see the shiny part of the insulation board.  The flashing on my front porch was done by a three yr old - or so it seems.


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## semipro (May 5, 2011)

I came across this article this morning and thought it would interest some in this thread. 

http://tinyurl.com/3ebvhgu

How to Insulate a Wall from the Outside
The right combination of cavity insulation and rigid foam will ease worries about condensation


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## SolarAndWood (May 5, 2011)

Semipro said:
			
		

> http://tinyurl.com/3ebvhgu



Are they really showing 4 inches of rigid foam on the roof deck?

Joe, I wouldn't necessarily write off wood siding.  I found it to be cost competitive and very DIYable if you are so inclined.


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## semipro (May 5, 2011)

SolarAndWood said:
			
		

> Semipro said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It looks that way, plus they have packed (cellulose?) insulation below that.  Sort of makes sense since most the heat exits upward.  

The comments on this article are worth reading BTW.  There may be better info there than in the article.


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## djblech (May 5, 2011)

I have put on a lot of vinyl siding and even the good stuff ain't great. I try and convince customers to go with Smartside from Louisiana Pacific. It is a  manufactured wood product that gets caulked in, so it is a tight siding. (as opposed to vinyl which just hangs there and flaps in the breeze.) It comes primed or prepainted and has an excellent warranty. It is only about 25% more than vinyl but a much better product. It's going on my house in the next year or 2. I think I was charging about $350 a square for vinyl and $400-$450 for Smartside. (a square is 10x10 or 100 sqft) These prices are just rough estimates that would change with the difficulty of the job. I'm sure the price of vinyl will be going up if oil is.
Doug


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## btuser (May 6, 2011)

I've had vinyl on two houses and I don't like it.  Even with the added maintence I'd rather have a good wood-based siding.  There are white pine clapboads (rift-sawn) on 200 year old homes in my town that hold the paint amazingly well.  Vinly has some good things about it but it never really looks that great. 

I was at a 30 year old house to day with VGC siding that I mistook for a recent siding job.  I asked how old was the siding job and he said 30 years, but stained every 5 years.  Easy to do on a ranch, notsomuch on a big tall house.


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## gpcollen1 (May 6, 2011)

btuser said:
			
		

> I've had vinyl on two houses and I don't like it.  Even with the added maintence I'd rather have a good wood-based siding.  There are white pine clapboads (rift-sawn) on 200 year old homes in my town that hold the paint amazingly well.  Vinly has some good things about it but it never really looks that great.
> 
> I was at a 30 year old house to day with VGC siding that I mistook for a recent siding job.  I asked how old was the siding job and he said 30 years, but stained every 5 years.  Easy to do on a ranch, notsomuch on a big tall house.



Have you used/seen the vinyl shake siding as opposed to the clapboard?  Just as other products have become available, vinyl has changed a bit too.  This is the siding i put on my house - - the discovery double 7".  Everybody loves it - neighbors have stopped in their cars to tell me so.  I am more of a wood guy at heart but between insects and birds, my old siding was taking a beating.  

http://mastic.com/Products/Siding.aspx


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## btuser (May 6, 2011)

No, but when I rip off the stuff on this house I'm going to be looking at it.  I've seen it on a number of houses and my favorite apps are when the siding and shakes are mixed.   If I was lucky enough to own a 1000sqft ranch I'd be inclined towards wood, but with this monster I'm stuck with vinyl.  

Brick would be nice.


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## benjamin (May 7, 2011)

With regard to foam backed vinyl siding, I think the insulation value is useless because of the air circulation through and behind the siding.  The same goes for the average installation of house wrap.  If it's not sealed to the structure at every edge and penetration then the air leakage is still happening.  

That is the beauty (and weakness) of exterior foam.  It can be a continuous air barrier with a decent, uniform R value over the whole structure, IF it is installed and sealed with care.  

Since the OP has newer windows, exterior foam and trim extensions might not be as attractive a choice as if he was replacing windows at the same time.  

The roof flashing leaking against the wall comes from completely cutting corners, any competent roofer can do that detail in their sleep.


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