# Ford Explorer Won't Pass Emissions



## thephotohound (Aug 16, 2007)

I found this great deal on a 97 Explorer (150K mi) that I'll use just to get to and from work 15 mi. away. The problem is this: the guy who's selling it to me forgot to mention that it failed emissions twice in March of '06 before he took it off the road (he says it was a 3rd vehicle anyway, and he was saving it for his daughter, but now she doesn't want it).  He thinks that it's probably nothing more than a sensor, but I'm a little concerned. I've worked on cars, so that doesn't scare me. 

My question is: in everyone's experience, how often is this a huge engine problem, and how often is it just an O2 sensor or a cat?


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## babalu87 (Aug 16, 2007)

Try this.

Run the engine and change the oil to a synthetic.
Get the truck to operating temperature and see if it will pass that way. You can also try a little tranny fluid down the throttle body.


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## thephotohound (Aug 16, 2007)

I probably will try those things, but I haven't bought it yet. I'm trying to decide whether it's worth the risk... How many times is it a major part (i.e. engine!!) and how often is it something minor like a sensor? And even if it is major, aren't there ways to "trick" the machine, or are they more complex than that now??


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## John H (Aug 16, 2007)

Chances are if there is no check engine lite and with 150k (miles) the cat converter could be the problem.

  John


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## keyman512us (Aug 16, 2007)

PhotoHound...

Scratch Babalu's previous comments... they don't come into the equation for a 1997 model.

So you have already bought the vehicle???? 

This is a post I can get into... The Mass Trace 99 inspection program has lotsa holes in it big enough to drive a semi through...so A Ford Exploder (I mean explorer) lol should be no problem. 

It's a 1997 model... First question? Is the "Service Engine soon light on" if it is... it's an automatic failure at the inspection station. If it is.... the first thing you need to do is to get that resolved. Take it to someplace you can trust and have a simple OBD (On board diagnostics) scan done.... since it's the "heart" of the inspection process for anything 1994 or newer...anything from 1984 to 1994 still goes on the dynamometer for a sticker.

When you do... ask the mechanic EXACTLY which generation of OBD you have...(1997 is right on the cusp between Gen 1 and 2) Gen 1 OBD is popcorn... as long as the check engine light is off you are almost guaranteed to pass. Gen 2 and higher needs time and mileage to clear out of the system not to be an issue for Mass Trace to pick up on.

Unless you are familiar with OBD... and don't mind randomly replacing parts under the hood, have the OBD scan done by a mechanic to first off diagnose the problem. If it's only gonna be $50 bucks for a new sensor decide whether or not its worthwhile to have them fix it on the spot... but either way find out exactly what is the problem so that you can go from there.

You live in Central MASS too? PM me if you need some direction on where to go for reasonable/reputable work done on a vehicle.


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## keyman512us (Aug 16, 2007)

ThePhotoHound said:
			
		

> I probably will try those things, but I haven't bought it yet. I'm trying to decide whether it's worth the risk... How many times is it a major part (i.e. engine!!) and how often is it something minor like a sensor? And even if it is major, aren't there ways to "trick" the machine, or are they more complex than that now??



For the Massachusetts inspection program its a matter of pre and post 1994... Anything with OBD... the only way to trick the system would be done electronically. I have yet to hear of anybody hooking up a computer to their car to give the OBD system a "labotomy" for the test... but I'm sure sooner or later someone is gonna try! 

On a side note:

For those (Mass Residents) out there that buy a vehicle that "Still has a good sticker on it"...remember the sticker expires "automatically" when a change of ownership OR plate transfer takes place. In this bold new world where computers are everywhere (keep in mind the cops have laptops right in the car these days) a good looking sticker on the windshield doesn't matter anymore... When a cop runs your plates through the Registry of Motor Vehicles system he knows THE EXACT DATE you got (or didn't get) your sticker...

You wouldn't believe what the cops have access to these days...right in their cruiser! lol


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## thephotohound (Aug 16, 2007)

KeyMan - I just sent you a PM...

The check engine light is out. There is currently no sticker on it. It is unregistered and off the road. Has been since 2006. It was a 3rd vehicle for the seller... he was saving it for his daughter, but now she says she's not interested... so he's selling.


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## keyman512us (Aug 16, 2007)

ThePhotoHound said:
			
		

> KeyMan - I just sent you a PM...
> 
> The check engine light is out. There is currently no sticker on it. It is unregistered and off the road. Has been since 2006. It was a 3rd vehicle for the seller... he was saving it for his daughter, but now she says she's not interested... so he's selling.



Well my next coarse of action would be to gather up all the particulars (make, model, year, VIN number) go talk to my insurance agent opening the conversation with "I need another RMV-2 form filled out and counterstamped so I can go to the registry"...

There is a story behind the picture below... one that still sticks out in my mind to this day when I told the magistrate and then showed him this picture....

To live in a state like MAss where the sexiest thing about buying a used vehicle is having this as the most pretty thing to look at:


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## thephotohound (Aug 16, 2007)

Sounds good to me. Will do. I'll post the results next week.


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## babalu87 (Aug 16, 2007)

Keyman, they still stick a sensor in the tailpipe to measure how "clean" the exhaust is. A HOT engine with clean oil burns cleaner and if there is any junk in the system a little tranny fluid can clean it up.


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## thephotohound (Aug 16, 2007)

While we're on the topic, any ideas to fix a gas pedal that sticks a little? When you go to give it gas from a standstill, the pedal sticks ever so slightly...


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## keyman512us (Aug 16, 2007)

ThePhotoHound said:
			
		

> While we're on the topic, any ideas to fix a gas pedal that sticks a little? When you go to give it gas from a standstill, the pedal sticks ever so slightly...



Are we still by any chance talking about the 'exploda'....lol


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## thephotohound (Aug 16, 2007)

I should mention that after the first time it failed, he replaced the O2 sensor (which cleared out the check engine light) but it failed again 2 weeks later. Maybe because the station was looking to fail him??? Either way, it's 17 months later, and the light is still out...


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## thephotohound (Aug 16, 2007)

keyman512us said:
			
		

> ThePhotoHound said:
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Yes, sir


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## keyman512us (Aug 16, 2007)

babalu87 said:
			
		

> Keyman, they still stick a sensor in the tailpipe to measure how "clean" the exhaust is. A HOT engine with clean oil burns cleaner and if there is any junk in the system a little tranny fluid can clean it up.



Err umm... No Comment ROFLMAO (inside joke)

The "Mexican Tune-Up" method (trainy fluid in the intake) harkens back to the motor pool days of the service... personally I think it's ffine for a G.O.V. but my P.O.V. I prefer running the tank down on fumes, putting in 1 gallon of high-test and adding 4 bottles of drygas 

(been there...done that) "Sticker time" can be downright comical sometimes..lol


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## keyman512us (Aug 16, 2007)

ThePhotoHound said:
			
		

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Perhaps we will re-visit this latter...gotta run (Got some miles ahead of me on my favorite MAss playground...I-495) 

Yesterdays trip to Gooses' homestead encountered this little gem... I would love to have choked this idiot and asked him "Hey driver what genius outfit do you drive for and what moron told you to run an over dimension load up 495 through the Lowell Connector in the 5 o'clock rush hour...You got a death wish or somethin???"

Perhaps I wasn't all that courteous to "our guest to this state" but hey read the motto on the license plate...

The only thing worse than some chuclke head running the hammer lane, pulling a camper with the whole family on board with the cruise control set at 65 is these crews hauling a demo pile in the making...


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## Gooserider (Aug 17, 2007)

Another alternative is to keep in mind that there are some places that do inspections, and other places that sell inspection stickers - A donation to the shop beer fund or other such is appreciated at such locations, and they can be quite helpful if you have a "dubious" vehicle...

For the sticking pedal, I would consider doing a careful clean and lube all the way down the line from the pedal to the throttle body, see if that helps, if not try to split the system and narrow down just where the sticking is happening.  It is probably a fairly minor part.  If all else fails I'd consider seeing if there is some way to add an extra spring to the throttle return.

Gooserider


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## thephotohound (Aug 17, 2007)

Great advice - on both accounts... I'm going to pick it up on Sat AM. GOing through it top to bottom this weekend. Will let you know...


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## thephotohound (Aug 18, 2007)

Picking it up today... Will let you know if I get pulled over or not for illegally using the plates from my truck to get it home...


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## keyman512us (Aug 18, 2007)

ThePhotoHound said:
			
		

> Picking it up today... Will let you know if I get pulled over or not for illegally using the plates from my truck to get it home...



Ahhh...You gotta love the "Yeah Massachusetts has to be different" attitude that there is no such thing as temporary tags...

"Officer..This vehicle is 'in transit'..."

***DISCLAIMER***

The following advice is to be used as a reference..."Not as Gospel"...

Word to the wise... You are not necessarily breaking the law...so long as a few general provisions are met, which are in the spirit of Massachusetts General laws and provisions:

Under MGL laws and statues you can (but should be carefull) in doing this.

Under the "2 Day/10 Day rule" in the MGL regarding RMV policy... You can legally do this so long as 1.) It is a newly purchased vehicle...(being a private sale...I would have a rather formal bill of sale in possesion, on your person and in the vehicle while operating it) 2.) To the letter of the law: The plates you have now affixed are going to be transferred within TWO business days of the intial purchase but no later than FIVE days total (provisions for weekends and inclusive of holidays)...for a newly purchased vehicle from a Massachusetts licensed auto dealer the timeframe increases to 7/10 respectively. 3.) This is optional but a "CYA" be in possesion of a counter stamped (by your insurance agent) MAss RMV Form 3? (I always get 2&3;mixed up...application for registration)...

Personally:
Having met the 3rd requirement is the only way I would do what you are intending to do...

This route lesens the likelyhood of getting into hot water...should you have the unfortunate priveledge of being pulled over... A police officer is less likely to write you up for (illegally attaching plates,operating an un-insured MV, operating an un-registered MV) if you are familiar with the procedures of the RMV...

Once again...Verify all information as such...I'm not an officer of the court...just an educated resident.

...On a side note:

For those residents of the Commonwealth purchasing a vehicle...regardless of your intentions (whether or not you register it) a trip to the RMV would be wise...RMV-2 (aplication for title/sales tax certification) within 10 days of purchase. Paying the sales tax (and ultimately going through the title process) is the best "CYA"... Hold onto your "Reciept for application" it looks like a registration...but clearly states "Sales tax paid ONLY"...

...This might not sound all that important... but will save a lot of grief and agravation "down the line" when it comes time to get plates. So get that piece of paper and tuck it away in a safe place...

After all...Who wants to have a hard time at the RMV????


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## thephotohound (Aug 19, 2007)

Keyman - 

All great advice. Great PSA. I wasn't going to risk it, but the guy lives 60 miles from me. I guess that makes it even more of a risk, but it also gave me even more incentive to do it all in two trips (one to check out the truck initially, and one to buy/take it home). Bottom line is that I wouldn't recommend what I did, but I got back OK, and it's sitting in my driveway!

So a trip to the local parts store was obviously in order. The $332 receipt (to the parts store) is proof that I got an awesome deal on it, b/c I am doing a FULL and COMPLETE tune-up. I'm assuming nothing's been done before (probably not true, but it will increase my chances of it running well for another 100K mi). Oil change yesterday, then air filter, and everything came to a screeching hault at the plugs and wires. I've never seen a spark plug (or all 8 for that matter) rusted completely to the block. What a PIA. Took me over an hour and a half to do just 3 plugs! I have 5 left this AM, then AC recharge, xfer case fluid change, tranny fluid + filter, grease fittings, check brakes, etc, etc... As for the emissions, won't worry bout that till Monday. Your previous posts give me confidence. Just to be sure, I think I'll fill it with a gallon of super and run it for 1/2 hr just to be sure.....


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## Marty (Aug 19, 2007)

I was under the impression that they no longer tail pipe test on 96' and up cars... so if you have no CE light it should pass. Why not take it to an auto parts store and have them pull codes on it for free... then you have an idea whats up, if there is a chance here that he pulled the CE bulb to 'help' sell it.


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## begreen (Aug 20, 2007)

ThePhotoHound said:
			
		

> Keyman -
> As for the emissions, won't worry bout that till Monday. Your previous posts give me confidence. Just to be sure, I think I'll fill it with a gallon of super and run it for 1/2 hr just to be sure.....



Don't forget the dry gas. That tank has sat for awhile so there's bound to be some condensation buildup.


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## thephotohound (Aug 20, 2007)

BeGreen - Got the drygas!
Marty - Good thinkin'.

I have bigger problems now, anyway... After taking all weekend to do just plugs and wires (yes, I've done tune-ups before, and no, plugs and wires have never taken me more than an afternoon), I may have a problem. First of all, I doubt the plugs were ever changed in this rig. Most of them were rusted to the block, and #3 was rusted and seized. I had to take a wheel off to get to it from the side, then snapped the plug in half. I tried an EZ Out to retrieve the threaded portion of the plug, and then the unthinkable happened... The electrode and part of the porcelain fell into the engine. Awesome. An afternoon job has turned into something that might cost me $500 if they have to pull the head now. I say "they" because I have taken this baby as far as I will. One slip of the drill and you can kiss the head goodbye. I'm not messin' with that. I have a mechanic I trust that I'll have it towed to... and the saga continues... 

Even if it costs me a couple hundred bucks, it was still DEFINITELY worth it for the price I paid...


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## thephotohound (Aug 22, 2007)

So I am one happy DIY'er today. I talked to a mechanic friend of mine, and he gave me the confidence to put the torch on it and try the EZ Out again. It worked! Better yet, after I replaced the plug and started it up, there was no rattle! The electrode and remaining porcelain must have gotten blown out when I originally tried turning the motor over to blow out the broken portion of the plug to use the EZ Out. Regardless, no rattle when idling, but a little sputtering when accelerating (almost like a small exhaust leak??). If there was any remaining porcelain in the chamber, I'd hear it, even when idling, right?


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## babalu87 (Aug 22, 2007)

ThePhotoHound said:
			
		

> If there was any remaining porcelain in the chamber, I'd hear it, even when idling, right?



No, you would have a hole in your piston


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## struggle (Aug 22, 2007)

If the object did not blow out it would have gouged the cyclinder wall and pretty much instantly you would have a miss fire. 

Some kids changed some spark plugs on the Deans SUV (Com. college program) and that happened but instead of turning the engine over with the plug out they reinstalled one and then started it up. It misfired almost instantly and required a short block.


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## thephotohound (Aug 22, 2007)

Babalu - I take it that means I'd definitely know it if something was in there?!

Struggle - Sorry for my ignorance, but what does a misfire sound like? When the motor is idling, I can't hear a thing.


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## struggle (Aug 22, 2007)

ThePhotoHound said:
			
		

> Babalu - I take it that means I'd definitely know it if something was in there?!
> 
> Struggle - Sorry for my ignorance, but what does a misfire sound like? When the motor is idling, I can't hear a thing.



A miss would be most noticed under a load driving it and at the exhaust exit it would be kind of a wathump sound that would be very consistent.  The engine should be shaking as well if it was missing.  Since it appears you have a V8 it would be less pronouced then say on a V6. 

Most likely after the engine is at operating temp if you where to power brake the engine ( foot firmly pressing down on the brake pedal when in drive push the throttle down to where the vehicle does not move up to around 3-3500 rpms). when doing this if there is a mis most likely it would set a code as it would be a hard miss and not intermintent. It would also be very good idea to firmly set the parking brake as well when doing this and only do this for say 5 seconds. If done for to long of a time transmission damage can happen.  

MAKE SURE NO ONE IS IN FRONT OF THE VEHICEL OR BEHIND if you do this test. 

Hopefully it is fine.


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## thephotohound (Aug 22, 2007)

I will definitely check when I get home, but I can tell you now that I am hearing a light, consistent sound, kind of like "thup, thup, thup" very, very quickly... almost like there's a pinhole exhaust leak. (no ticking, vibration, or shaking, though). I will try the gas pedal/brake test tonight. So I should be looking for some hard misses (that are hard to miss, if you know what I mean?) a check engine light?


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## struggle (Aug 22, 2007)

Yes it should be a hard miss (noticeable) of course it will never pass any inspection if it is missing. The sound you are hear is near the engine or near the rear exhaust? You could just be hearing an injector ticking which is not uncommon. 

Is this a 5.0L or the 4.6L engine. I am guessing it a a 5.0L 

If it does  seem to miss under load the next step would be to a leak down test of the cyclinder you had the spark plug problem as it will show wether the cyclinder is holding compression or not.  

If it fails that then it is a worst case problem and will need engine replacement of some sort.


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## thephotohound (Aug 23, 2007)

Good news... it's definitely not missing. Smooth as silk, and passed the brake pedal test with flying colors. I believe what I am hearing is just (like you said) an injector ticking (very faint)... phew...


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## struggle (Aug 23, 2007)

Glad to hear that :coolsmile:


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## thephotohound (Aug 23, 2007)

Thank you for all of your advice (everyone)... Just when you thought it was just for stove advice........

I don't know what I would do without this forum


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## elkimmeg (Aug 23, 2007)

Things to avoid when purchasing a car/truck A car or truck that sits idle over common ground spells a lot of additional repairs,

Ground moisture eats brake lined freezez wheel cylinders and eats gas and transmission lines I have seen gas tan=ks rust out oil pans covers rust out and it not need to be there for a long time 6 months can be all it takes. When parked ina garage or on ashpalt the moisture problem is lessened plus if still on the reoad the fir flow from driving  dissipates the moisture.

A sitting vechicle is a bad thing to do, especially over bare ground. This might explain the rusted in spark plugs.


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## thephotohound (Aug 23, 2007)

Good point, Elk. It did sit on asphalt, but I have noticed more rust than I expected. That explains it.


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## thephotohound (Aug 23, 2007)

HERE WE GO....

Went to get it inspected today... failed for ball joints on one side (he seemed to think it was the upper) and P0401 for (most likely) a DPFE sensor. Best case is $50-$70 for the sensor and $45 for a ball joint. I'm not one to half-a$$ it, though, so I'll probably do all 4. However, I've never done a ball joint, so I have no idea what I'm in for, either. I'll pick up the press and the fork this weekend and keep the Haynes close by... any suggestions?


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## jqgs214 (Aug 23, 2007)

keyman512us said:
			
		

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Of course you were pulled over and stopped while taking this picture


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## Mo Heat (Aug 23, 2007)

Well, you may indeed have a bad ball joint, but reporting bad ball joints during a mechanical inspection has always been a favorite ruse for many an unscrupulous mechanic outfit. They usually have the car up on one of those jacks that lets the wheels hang, get you out there, and push up on the wheel. The wheel (and tire) move upward a bit, they say that is indicative of "bad ball joints". But it isn't, at least not according to the person who told me about it (my dad, Air Force Staff Sgt. airplane mechanic who did his share of shade tree auto jobs).

I once drove five years and around 60,000 miles on "bad ball joints", sold the car to my brother, who drove another 20,000 on the "bad  ball joints", and well, those were some pretty good "bad ball joints". I've had this happen to me twice, with two different cars. Once at one of those nationally franchised outfits that seemed to have a predetermined dollar figure they wanted from me, and once at "Honest Abes Auto Repair" shop, about five minutes from where I live now. The last time was 7.5 years ago. I'm still driving on those "bad ball joints". I never returned to either of those shops. In fact, I even paid twice for a second inspection to avoid the remote possibility of having my car sabotaged at "Honest Abe's" shop. That dude was scary.

Just a thought. As I said, you may actually have bad ball joints, but sometimes a second opinion at a "second trusted mechanic" shop is in order.


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## GVA (Aug 24, 2007)

MO  Mass has some pretty tight inspection requirements now... Unfortunatly any play and I mean any play in the ball joints will cause a failure.
It sucks.......  It like failing because your window doesn't roll up tight anymore......


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## BrotherBart (Aug 24, 2007)

Just jack the car up until the weight starts coming off the wheel and then take a lug wrench or big screw driver and pry up on the joint. If you see any movement at all, change it. That thing is all that is holding the front wheel on for all intents and purposes. Just be sure you have the right size drill bit and a good drill for drilling out the rivets and it isn't a bad job at all.

Haynes in one hand, wrench in the other. I love the parts where they say "To remove the framus use Ford special tool X4MCC8V24R3. If not available a pair of pliers will do.".


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## struggle (Aug 24, 2007)

As to bad ball joints with the now modern lubed for life ball joints what most often happens is the seal/boot will get a small tear and allow water intrusion and then the joint fails. Ford has issues to some extent for this. 

I believe you have to press the joints out and back in. I have done them on the 97 version 4wd on Ford 150 trucks and they are not for most light do it yourself people. You must be confident in your skills to do this job. Also many times the half shatfs for the front axle will not seperate from the bearings so you have to unbolt the half shaft at the axle and slide the spindle out all in one peice. This must be done without damaging the ABS sensor or brake calipar hose etc.  

If you have the right tools it is a very easy job but if not you might be taking some trips to Sears for a 12 point socket and axle nut sockets etc. 

Start spraying ball joint nuts  with pentrating oil now. Wire brush off any exposed threads  on fasteners you are going to take off. 

Did you use any antiseez on the spark plugs? If not then replace them earlier than the first interval was as the can seize again.

It is possible to go a very long time on loose ball joints but most likely you will spend more money on tires then the ball joints will cost to replace. Everytime the suspension cycles (anytime the car moves) the ball joint will move and any abnormal amount of play will cause the alignment to be off with natural suspension movement making the alignment off most of the time the car is moving and the steering can pull or drift in some cases as the ball joint will not be centered properly. 

A neighbor brought a car over to me one day to inspect it and I tell you what you could have knocked me over with a feather after I pushed the front tire in while off the ground. I was amazed that the wheel had not seperated from the lower control arm.  THe wheel must have moved over 1 1/2" or more when pushed. The wrost I had ever seen. She junked the car as it had way more things wrong then they had money to spend on it and carry a family in it.


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## thephotohound (Aug 24, 2007)

Mo - Great advice. Thank you for your input. Struggle - I have most of the tools... I just need a ball joint press and fork. 

I forgot to mention that 1 -2 inches on the inside of each of the front tires is BALD. I mean bald. The rest of the tread is approx. 1/2 gone. When he moved the wheel, it had a good 3/4 inch to 1 inch of play in it (on the passenger side) and very little on the driver side. That leads to another question:

He (mechanic) said that it was most likely the upper that was the culprit on the passenger side, and that the lower might be OK. For an extra $30, doesn't it make sense to do both at once? If I'm not mistaken, shouldn;t you remove the lower to properly press the upper back in anyway? And furthermore, even if the driver's side is passable, should I just replace those as well? Or does it not matter?

Thanks.


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## struggle (Aug 24, 2007)

Usually the lowers fail before the upper. 

Always replace both when possible the cost is cheap compared to the labor and hassle of having to redo them later.

 Then you should be good to go for another 100K


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## keyman512us (Aug 24, 2007)

GVA said:
			
		

> MO  Mass has some pretty tight inspection requirements now... Unfortunatly any play and I mean any play in the ball joints will cause a failure.
> It sucks.......  It like failing because your window doesn't roll up tight anymore......



GVA...That one might be a stretch. If the window lets go... it's doubtfull it will send you off the road straight for a tree or worse a minivan loaded with kids on their way to a soccer game.

While properly maintaining a vehicle is important....If I had to choose between having to control a vehicle with no brakes or no steering... I would choose the no brakes.

I think most professional truck drivers would agree with the above statement.

At least if you can steer... you still have some control.


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## keyman512us (Aug 24, 2007)

ThePhotoHound said:
			
		

> Mo - Great advice. Thank you for your input. Struggle - I have most of the tools... I just need a ball joint press and fork.
> 
> I forgot to mention that 1 -2 inches on the inside of each of the front tires is BALD. I mean bald. The rest of the tread is approx. 1/2 gone. When he moved the wheel, it had a good 3/4 inch to 1 inch of play in it (on the passenger side) and very little on the driver side. That leads to another question:
> 
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I would lean towards doing all four ball joints... perhaps some "one stop shopping" at a reputable shop. Someplace that will do the ball joints... and a front end alignment (depending on the vehicle 4-wheel alignment).

When it comes to things like ball joints (steering components-most critically important system on the vehicle) I wouldn't take chances. 

If you can't steer it's all over...


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## Mo Heat (Aug 24, 2007)

ThePhotoHound said:
			
		

> I forgot to mention that 1 -2 inches on the inside of each of the front tires is BALD. I mean bald. The rest of the tread is approx. 1/2 gone. When he moved the wheel, it had a good 3/4 inch to 1 inch of play in it (on the passenger side) and very little on the driver side.



That sounds pretty bad. And I think I'd do them all while I was in there and be done with it. I agree: no-steer = no-good! And definitely get a front-end alignment after replacing things.


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## GVA (Aug 25, 2007)

keyman512us said:
			
		

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No it's not a stretch when you bring the truck to 2 shops and they won't replace them cause they don't have enough play to warrant replacement from a MECHANICAL standpoint.  But from the inspection station perspective when they put that 5 foot pipe under my trucks front tire and practicaly lifted it off the jack they saw a little play and failed it...
That is a load of crap.................................This was what I was getting at....  This is the enhanced saftey inspections.  Oh here's another one I brought my daughters car to get a sticker a couple of years ago and every thing passed except one fog lamp was out ............ Yep.... FAILED.........  I said it's a fog light guy said it doesn't matter it's on the car it needs to work.
And another a friend had a P/U with a cap on the back.......  His Third brake light on the trucks cab was out, not that you could tell cause the cap was blocking it, yep.......FAILED....  He had to take the cap off to change the bulb and then put it back on.........

Then I look around at the POS cars out there next to me on the highways and get even more pissed....


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## Mo Heat (Aug 25, 2007)

GVA, Time for you to find a new inspection station. You've got a rough crowd! And don't forget to bring a fruit basket for the inspector.  :lol:


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## GVA (Aug 25, 2007)

Mo Heat said:
			
		

> GVA, Time for you to find a new inspection station. You've got a rough crowd! And don't forget to bring a fruit basket for the inspector.  :lol:


It's been different stations each time :-S


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## Gooserider (Aug 25, 2007)

GVA said:
			
		

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You need to stop the driver of one of those POS cars, and find out which shop sells him the sticker...  ;-P 

Worst I've ever heard was a few years back down at Daytona Bike Week, before the local  Chamber of Commerce convinced the local pols that it was good politics to be really nice to the bikers and their wallets, the cops were giving tickets for every infraction they could find - one guy had a Harley with a rolling light show, over 3 THOUSAND bulbs...  Literally had to tow a trailer with a generator on it to give him enough juice.  Cops gave him a ticket because ONE bulb was burned out, and FL law says motorcycles must run ALL their lights during the day....   >:-( 

Gooserider


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## keyman512us (Aug 25, 2007)

GVA said:
			
		

> keyman512us said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well it sounds like you have had a streak of bad luck dealing with inspection stations.

Without getting started on another fine example of "The Peoples' republic of Massachusetts" The inspection process is somewhat ridiculous. I too have experienced similiar results... but found a decent, honest, realistic place to go for my stickers. Been going there (a bit out of the way nowadays) and bring all five vehicles there... as well as other family vehicles because I know the place is on the level.

The worst one I heard about though was a friend that brough his blazer to another 'local' garage for an inspection... The guy says "Hit the windshield washer fluid (technically it has to work)" he didn't have any fluid in it. The guy doing the inspection says "I can fill it up for ya...but I have to charge you for the fluid." So my buddy says ok. Inspection finished, get's the sticker "That will be $29.00 for the sticker and $9.00 for the windshield washer fluid"...Which needless to say got my buddy seeing red. "Get something to suck the fluid out of the reservoir..I'm not gonna pay you $9.00 for part of a $0.99 jug..."

How the particular words came up I dunno... but the whole thing agravated my friend to the point where he told the guy "Had I known that I would have just (substituted a bodily fluid) in it"...

That would have been an interesting thing to be sprayed all over the garage.


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## thephotohound (Aug 26, 2007)

I'll never go back to this inspection station, as the guy was just too quick to quote me a price to do all 4 ball joints - $600. I told him I do most of my own auto repairs, and asked if this was a big job. He told me that it's way over my head (like he even knows me) and to leave it to the professionals. Needless to say, once I get it reinspected, he'll never see me again.

I tested them myself (ball joints) and found that it was just the uppers, anyway... Total parts cost: $109 (both uppers). And they're only so expensive because on the Explorer, they come with the control arm as one piece. Each unit is 4 bolts. "Leave it to the professionals" my a$$. Even the lowers don't seem too tough with a press. 

So on a side note, I went to pick up a cord of 3 yr seasoned oak for $50 (but that's another story) and heard some real metal on metal action when braking (92 GMC 2500). Pulled the wheel to find that the front pads were absolute toast. New pads: $26. Went to pull them off, a caliper was seized. Replace caliper: $16 ($16?!!). Replaced both for that price. Found one rotor was too damaged and had already been turned at least 2x. New rotors: $30 each. Again, for that price, replaced both. Installed all, bled lines, ready to go. Bottom line: Nothing is ever easy on a 15 yr old truck (i.e. "just pads") but the monthly car payment makes it all worth it! I'll never buy new (or even close to new) again.


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## keyman512us (Aug 26, 2007)

ThePhotoHound said:
			
		

> Bottom line: Nothing is ever easy on a 15 yr old truck (i.e. "just pads") but the monthly car payment makes it all worth it! I'll never buy new (or even close to new) again.



Amen to that!


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## thephotohound (Aug 27, 2007)

Did the passenger side ball joint & upper control arm yesterday. Piece of cake. The bolts weren't seized like everything else on the truck.... funny.... like someone had done them before.... hmmm.... Anyway, it's a good thing I replaced it when I did. The old joint was 3/4 of the way out of the knuckle. A few good bumps, and I would have had no steering. Thanks, Keyman!

I'm leaving the driver's side for now, as the inspection station (as corrupt as they are) said the driver's side should pass. Based on "should", I bought the part anyway. As I went to pull the old one off, I noticed that I couldn't slide the old bolts out of the control arm; there were metal fuel lines blocking one bolt and a power steering hose blocking the other. Wonderful. All I need is to go to move one of the fuel lines and crease it or break a seal. So I left it in there. I think I may try to get a sticker without changing this one. I can also get $80 back....


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## keyman512us (Aug 27, 2007)

ThePhotoHound said:
			
		

> Did the passenger side ball joint & upper control arm yesterday. Piece of cake. The bolts weren't seized like everything else on the truck.... funny.... like someone had done them before.... hmmm.... Anyway, it's a good thing I replaced it when I did. The old joint was 3/4 of the way out of the knuckle. A few good bumps, and I would have had no steering. Thanks, Keyman!
> 
> I'm leaving the driver's side for now, as the inspection station (as corrupt as they are) said the driver's side should pass. Based on "should", I bought the part anyway. As I went to pull the old one off, I noticed that I couldn't slide the old bolts out of the control arm; there were metal fuel lines blocking one bolt and a power steering hose blocking the other. Wonderful. All I need is to go to move one of the fuel lines and crease it or break a seal. So I left it in there. I think I may try to get a sticker without changing this one. I can also get $80 back....



Your welcome Photo...

Just a thought... Seeing as the vehicle is a 1997 model (at the ten year mark)... and you already have the parts... personally I would hold onto them "for a future date" when perhaps you "just happen to find a good mechanic" etc.... 

Used vehicles can "be a crap shoot sometimes" but it sounds like you are close to having it in the condition you want it to be in. 

Unless the vehicle is "to good to pass up" I usually "do my homework"... the years of buying and driving "someone elses' jalopy" have taught me some very valuable lessons. A few times I've been viewed with some curiousity by a seller when I break out a floor jack and start checking over the front end... course when you hear "I bought it for my teenage daughter to get to cheerleader practice/go off to college" etc... You can learn alot about what the vehicle has been through...just with a little conversation. Buying a truck/SUV from someone that has "turned it loose with a teenage driver" can make you shake your head sometimes....when a truck or an SUV is driven like a sportscar, chances are "It's been driven hard and put away wet"...usually the steering components will tell the story.

My bet on the right side being "hammered" would be one or two things of "bad driver traits". Coulda been driven by someone who had a tendancy to  "cut corners" into curbs or from "hard lefts through traffic".

If it would have been the left??? "Taking highway off ramps at 70MPH religiously".

Personally, I TRY to drive focusing on putting as little stress as possible on steering components as possible.

Glad to hear your new rig is 'coming together'...Just don't take those off ramps to hard/fast.

 I've seen the end results of hard driving on steering components... from turning wrenches to being a "passerby".


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## thephotohound (Aug 27, 2007)

Thanks for the info. Much appreciated.

I actually thought that the fact that he bought it for his teenage daughter (who never actually drove it) was a good thing... if he's willing to put her in it, he's confident in it's reliability, no? Just my take on it.

Yes, it's just about to where I want it. I'll probably replace the shocks sooner than later, and I'll do the A/C in the spring (wouldn't get cold even after a recharge). Really the only pressing item left is the whole P0401 issue. P1000 is still coming up though (system reset), so P0401 may go away once it's driven enough miles, right? Just for good measure, I'll clean the EGR and O2. If that's still not it, next is the gas cap. After the cheap fixes are done, I'll look to the MPFE sensor, then the EGR valve itself...


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## keyman512us (Aug 27, 2007)

ThePhotoHound said:
			
		

> Thanks for the info. Much appreciated.
> 
> I actually thought that the fact that he bought it for his teenage daughter (who never actually drove it) was a good thing... if he's willing to put her in it, he's confident in it's reliability, no? Just my take on it.
> 
> Yes, it's just about to where I want it. I'll probably replace the shocks sooner than later, and I'll do the A/C in the spring (wouldn't get cold even after a recharge). Really the only pressing item left is the whole P0401 issue. P1000 is still coming up though (system reset), so P0401 may go away once it's driven enough miles, right? Just for good measure, I'll clean the EGR and O2. If that's still not it, next is the gas cap. After the cheap fixes are done, I'll look to the MPFE sensor, then the EGR valve itself...



"Believe some of what you hear and 1/2 of what you read(into it)" Yeah, the guy might have bought it for his daughter to drive so he cares..."She never drove it"..dunno. 

Now look at it from the other side...

She might have drove it a couple of times, whacked a curb and it was taken to a (unscrupoulous) mechanic "Hey buddy your daughter is driving that thing??? You better think of spending the $1200.00 bucks to do the front end over before she get's killed driving home some night with all her friends in the car"... guy thinks to himself it's too big for her to drive "Daddy I want 'a little red rice ship' with a kickin' stereo system...can I can I please..."

Yeah so the guy is thinking about his daughter... Hey? How many have been put in that predicament when it comes to "Daddy's little girl???"


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## saichele (Aug 27, 2007)

keyman512us said:
			
		

> babalu87 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Actually my suggestion, if the check engine light is out, would be to give it a blend of high test and E85, about 50/50.  put in some 15/40 or 20/50 synthetic, and see if you can sneak past.  If you felt really ambitious you could change the plugs.

Steve


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## thephotohound (Oct 22, 2007)

UPDATE

I have replaced the upper ball joint (the one that failed). I have also freed up the stuck EGR valve. Hopefully this cures the P0401 code I was getting. However, I also found that the round rubber part of my gas tank filler neck (that holds the nozzle in place when filling the tank) is broken off. (The metal part that the cap threads into it just fine.) I pulled it out, but there's no way to glue it back on. Could this be causing a vacuum leak, thus causing the P0401? Or does the gas cap seal the tank completely? 

Second problem is this: I am on day 59 of 60 with the failed sticker (no lectures please). I know I have to drive at least 50-75 miles after the fix for the code to clear out of the OBD-II system... I will hit this mark after freeing the stuck EGR, but if it is something else (like a DPFE sensor) I will need additional time and mileage after changing the sensor (a $120 part, mind you). 

So here's the question... how does everyone feel about driving on an EXPIRED REJECTED inspection sticker? If you're not so confident, any ideas on how to get around this mileage requirement? Or is it time to put this baby on blocks and stick the gas pedal until we reach 75 miles??


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## saichele (Oct 22, 2007)

If the rubber part mating the filler neck to the tank is shot, you're getting a vacuum leak (big one) which will throw a check engine light.  Don;t bother driving any miles without addresng that.  

You should be able to clear the code with one of those scan tools - $20-30 at Pep Boys or AutoZone.  Or a decent mechanic might even clear it for little or no money.

As to the inspection sticker, srtictly your call.  Locally they could care less about expired registrations, but they charge you a late fee when you do get around to registering (of course, if you're in an accident with an expired registration it becomes noticeably pricier).

Steve


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## thephotohound (Oct 22, 2007)

Obviously the rubber part is first on the agenda then... Is that a junk yard part? Looks like just 3 bolts takes the neck off...


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## saichele (Oct 22, 2007)

Could be a junkyard item, or it should be pretty cheap at a NAPA or similar.  If you were really going hillbilly, you could probably do it with some appropriate diameter hose, a couple hose clamps, and some formagasket, but the right part might cost less than the cobble job.

Steve


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## Gooserider (Oct 22, 2007)

ThePhotoHound said:
			
		

> UPDATE
> 
> So here's the question... how does everyone feel about driving on an EXPIRED REJECTED inspection sticker? If you're not so confident, any ideas on how to get around this mileage requirement? Or is it time to put this baby on blocks and stick the gas pedal until we reach 75 miles??



Depends on how lucky you feel.  If you get popped in MA with an expired sticker, the cop can do anything up to towing and impounding the vehicle on the spot, leaving you standing on the curb.  On a regular sticker it's fairly obvious when you've expired as well, since they are color coded by month.  I don't know how obvious it is for a reject sticker to be expired.

I've heard of people getting software and the paper to make their own "free-lance" stickers, not sure of details on how to do this, and while you might not get caught because of a wrong color sticker, if you get caught for anything else then you really get hosed...

I'm not terribly worried about it from the peice of paper standpoint - the problem is the thing you got rejected for, if that's been fixed then you are safe, regardless of whether the gov't's gotten it's peice of the action or not.  If it hasn't been fixed, but you gamed the system into a legit sticker, you aren't safe even if the gov't is happy...

I've also heard of people going in for a second inspection, failing, getting another reject sticker, and starting over - but this was a few years back, and I don't know if they've changed the rules so that this wouldn't be allowed any more.

Gooserider


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## GVA (Oct 23, 2007)

I heard that in this great state that you CANNOT DRIVE if you have a R on your sticker....  The car can be pulled over and impounded on the spot (regardless of the date on it)...  This must be a newer law on the books...I dunno...


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## Gooserider (Oct 23, 2007)

GVA said:
			
		

> I heard that in this great state that you CANNOT DRIVE if you have a R on your sticker....  The car can be pulled over and impounded on the spot (regardless of the date on it)...  This must be a newer law on the books...I dunno...



Technically correct - If you have a Reject sticker, you are ONLY supposed to operate directly in relation to getting the car serviced and made inspectable.  If the officer feels so inclined, he can pull an "R" car over and interrogate the driver about where he is going - if the driver is going anywhere besides to and from a repair shop, parts store, or other such repair-related facility, or home from one, then the cop can give more tickets or impound and tow the car.

Some ways this makes sense - in theory you got the rejection because the car wasn't safe to be on the road.  They are doing you the "favor" of allowing you to drive around enough to get it fixed, instead of having it towed, but the intent is not to have you running all over the place in an "unsafe" vehicle.  If you accept the entire concept of gov't inspections, it makes a level of sense.

Gooserider


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## saichele (Oct 23, 2007)

Doesn;t Mass. differentiate between safety inspections - brakes, seat belts, tires, etc - and emissions?  An emissions failure doesn't mean a car is unsafe, just smoky...  Or malfunctioning in some manner that may vary from minor (vacuum leak on the EGR) to major (no exhaust pipe).

If you fail safety, you probably shouldn't be driving period.  If you fail emissions, I have mixed feelings about it.

Steve (living in a state with neither safety nor emissions inspections)


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## thephotohound (Oct 23, 2007)

I failed initially for both safety and emissions. I immediately fixed the safety (upper ball joint). I then procrastinated with the emissions until it was too late (today is 60 days). It is now off the road until I fix it. The problem is not fixing it, it's what do I do once it is fixed. I have to wait approximately 50-75 miles until the code clears the system. If I get pulled over with an expired safety reject sticker, I'd say I'm screwed. I can have the receipt for the ball joint if that will help to show that I fixed the safety issue, but if he's in a bad mood, I can consider my car impounded. So my plan is to fix it, then just drive back roads in my own town until it cycles through the OBD. Then I should be good. Even if I get pulled over, I should be OK.


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## saichele (Oct 23, 2007)

Seriously, getting the codes cleared shouldn't be a big thing.  A gas station with a service bay should be able to do that for $10 or less.  Probably for less than the gas you'd burn driving 75 miles.

Steve


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## thephotohound (Oct 23, 2007)

Getting the codes cleared isn't an issue... doesn't P1000 show up after you clear them for the 50-75 miles??


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## thephotohound (Oct 24, 2007)

UPDATE

Had a chat with two Ford techs yesterday. They said that the plastic/rubber grommet between the gas tank and filler neck would not cause any vacuum loss, and that the gas cap seals to the metal filler neck... the plastic is irrelevant.

So I've determined it has to be the DPFE sensor. I picked one up at Autozone, but for the life of me, can't locate it! After much research on forums, and searching my engine compartment, I've determined that my Explorer must be an early model '97, which had no DPFE... just an EVR (electronic vacuum regulator). I'll double check tonight by taking off the EVR (as this is the only obstruction left between the intake and the firewall) and I'll know for sure.


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## saichele (Oct 24, 2007)

Sorry for the misdirection.  Most of the filler assemblies I'm familiar with have a metal neck attached to the fender, and a metal neck attached to the tank, then a flexible piece somewhere in between to deal with relative motion between the tank (hard mounted ot the frame) and the body.  I thought that flexible piece was what you were referring to.

Steve


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## babalu87 (Oct 24, 2007)

I drove on an expired sticker for almost THREE years 

Finally got pinched and he wrote me up and told me to get it done.
I tild him it slipped my mind ROFL He said FOR THREE YEARS!


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## thephotohound (Oct 24, 2007)

Steve - Please don't apologize! You obviously know more than me, so ANY info is welcomed!
Babalu - Thanks for the tip. And when I get pulled over, I'll tell him "I know this guy in Middleborough....."


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## keyman512us (Oct 26, 2007)

"Things are going to get interesting folks"....

Talking with a friend recently (that is state certified to do inspection stickers)...Seems the Registry of Motor Vehicles "has some new plans in store for the motoring public"...

In 2008...They are changing the "inspection process" again. The Dynamometer machine...is going to be history...(as well as the current 'machinery'...)

They are going to have a new computer to plug into the OBD port...and a 'gas anaylzer' for the "two speed snap test"...but supposedly, anything 1996 and older "will be safety inspection only"...

The "kicker"...lol The 'proposed fee' for a 'sticker' is going up to $45.00

...Gotta love this state....lol


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## keyman512us (Oct 26, 2007)

ThePhotoHound said:
			
		

> UPDATE
> 
> I have replaced the upper ball joint (the one that failed). I have also freed up the stuck EGR valve. Hopefully this cures the P0401 code I was getting. However, I also found that the round rubber part of my gas tank filler neck (that holds the nozzle in place when filling the tank) is broken off. (The metal part that the cap threads into it just fine.) I pulled it out, but there's no way to glue it back on. Could this be causing a vacuum leak, thus causing the P0401? Or does the gas cap seal the tank completely?
> 
> ...



PhotoHound...

..."I'm by no means an expert on Fords (or much of a 'fan' either)" ...but I do have "friends" that 'turn wrenches' and a 'few that inspect vehicles'...

...The "broken filler neck" could very well be causing the trouble code. Depending how the EVAP system is setup on the explorer if it isn't properly 'pressurized' it can cause trouble codes...so yes my advice to you figure out a way to fix it so your fuel system is 'pressurized'...

Part of the 'Mass TRACE 99 inspection program' as originally proposed... had a process to check the fuel EVAP system (although no inspection stations ever really did it and it 'fell by the wayside' so to speak...and IMHO rightly so...hooking a sensor to the fuel filler neck with wires and hoses??? It's a car...not a hospital patient...WTF)


As far as "Driving with an expired rejection sticker"... If you are a "gambling man"..... Go for it!

One word of advice though: Pay real close attention to who is following behind you...lol That cop in the rear view mirror???

...The cops have laptops right in the car these days...AND your vehicle info thru the RMV tells them EXACTLY WHEN your vehicle was inspected...The sticker on the windshield doesn't mean squat anymore....

You would be surprised "how often the cops run your plates in Massachusetts" (I have 'a friend' ..."run my plates every so often just out of curiousity" since I travel so much of the state...and to see if there is any info "in the remarks section"...)

It's a 'bold new world post 9/11'....

Believe it or not...MSP cruisers are equipped with a camera that snaps the plate and runs a 'query' to see if you "are of interest (use your imagination WHY...it has to do withsomething that happened in 2001)"....

How lucky are you??? 

I guess it all comes down to the odds...and "how bored the cop is"....


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## keyman512us (Oct 26, 2007)

Photo...

Snap some pics and post them...of the "broken filler neck"...you got me curious.


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