# Todays forecast... 93 with a heat index of 101F



## jharkin (Mar 18, 2013)

Where am I now?






More interesting scenes as I get them.  Still a bit tired from 16hr on airplanes! (location hint)


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## begreen (Mar 18, 2013)

Looks like you've been Shanghai'ed again jh.


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## nate379 (Mar 18, 2013)

No where I want to be. Too damn HOT!  I live in Alaska for a reason!


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## jharkin (Mar 18, 2013)

Not Shanghai  This time I am on the sub-contintent.


I am in sunny Pune, India - about 75 miles inland from Mumbai




No wood stoves here


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## nate379 (Mar 18, 2013)

Not exactly my idea of a vacation spot!


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## Jags (Mar 18, 2013)

My only valid question....Is beer readily available?


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## Adios Pantalones (Mar 18, 2013)

Might get up to a foot of the devil's dandruff tonight.


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## lopiliberty (Mar 18, 2013)

Unless it was a business trip, that would be the LAST place I would want to go, to hot for me.  Yah yah I know I keep the house close to 90 in the winter but that's different.  I will be seeing those kind of temperatures here soon enough and not looking forward to it


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## jharkin (Mar 18, 2013)

Its business. We have an office here.  Its not any easy place to get to (16 hours on planes plus a 4 hour car trip  )


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## Jags (Mar 18, 2013)

jharkin said:


> Its business. We have an office here. Its not any easy place to get to (16 hours on planes plus a 4 hour car trip  )


 

But what about the beer??


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## jharkin (Mar 18, 2013)

Oh yeah there is beer. And over here beer owns its own airline.


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## Jags (Mar 18, 2013)

I do have to comment on the "not so flattering" picture.  The background looks war torn.

Never had that beer.  Any good?  Comparable to...?


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## Defiant (Mar 18, 2013)

Jags said:


> Never had that beer. Any good? Comparable to...?


We want pics of the beer and maybe a taste or two.


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## Jags (Mar 18, 2013)

Defiant said:


> We want pics of the beer and maybe a taste or two.


 
I think it warrants a 12 pack for full assessment.


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## Defiant (Mar 18, 2013)

Jags said:


> I think it warrants a 12 pack for full assessment.


At least!


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## Adios Pantalones (Mar 18, 2013)

They have it at most US Indian restaurants. Light lager.


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## Jags (Mar 18, 2013)

Hmmm...the one that I go to is a "no booze" place.  I don't have many to choose from unless I go to Chicago - and I will only do that if somebody threatens me bodily harm.

(the no-booze place is pretty darn hard to beat...except for the no-booze part)


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## Adios Pantalones (Mar 18, 2013)

Our local one went down hill. Indian places seem to stay Indian but change owners every few years or so here, and the food quality goes up or down.


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## Jags (Mar 18, 2013)

Adios Pantalones said:


> Our local one went down hill. Indian places seem to stay Indian but change owners every few years or so here, and the food quality goes up or down.


 
At least every 7 years - that is when the visa expires and they are required to go back to the homeland for 6 months.  Then they can return to take over their cousins gas station.   Fact: they have a tax advantage that Americans don't get (and can't get).  That is one of the reasons they are so successful with convenience stores.

And don't anyone get all uptight - I am in no way prejudice against these folks.  They are simply taking advantage of ill conceived rules/laws.


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## jharkin (Mar 19, 2013)

Anyway, hoping this stays on track and out of the can....  Nothing interesting to share today, I spent 10 hours in the office. Tomorrow we will get out for lunch and I'll have some time to do sightseeing Saturday morning before driving back to Mumbai to head home. I'll try to get some interesting pictures and share.


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## Jags (Mar 19, 2013)

Please do.  We like pics of places we don't know how to pronounce.


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## Seasoned Oak (Mar 19, 2013)

jharkin said:


> Anyway, hoping this stays on track and out of the can.... Nothing interesting to share today, I spent 10 hours in the office. Tomorrow we will get out for lunch and I'll have some time to do sightseeing Saturday morning before driving back to Mumbai to head home. I'll try to get some interesting pictures and share.


I like to travel ,everyplace is interesting to me. Looks modern enough to find some nice watering holes and sample the local cuisine and ale.


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## Gary_602z (Mar 19, 2013)

Is that airplane a RC model?

Gary


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## jharkin (Mar 19, 2013)

Gary_602z said:


> Is that airplane a RC model?
> 
> Gary


 
Not an RC model, thats just some stock photo I found online... however they do really own an airline and I remember seeing their airplanes at the domestic airport on a previous visit years ago.



Jags said:


> The background looks war torn


 
Thats India for you The country is growing like crazy but its still very much the developing world.  The infrastructure is still very bad, most of the roads do look like a war zone with garbage and construction debris everywhere and no rhyme or reason to the traffic flow.  Its also a very bureaucratic society and new infrastructure projects take forever to complete, unlike China where things happen overnight.  FOr example Pune is a city of 5 million, but it doesn't have an international airport. There is a plan for one but its not yet approved and even then it will take a lot longer to build then we are used to.  Maybe in 5 years.  There is a large air force base that you can get domestic flights into and one Lufthansa flight a day from Germany ($$$$$) but no others - so the typical route to get here is fly into Mumbai (Bombay) and take a 4 hour taxi ride.

One thing that amazes me is that in spite of all the warnings about food safety I still see lots of western business travelers eating fruits, salad and uncooked dairy at the hotel restaurant...  Thinking because its an international chain hotel its safe.... They are probably in for trouble.  I'm _really_ cautious about eating and still have had problems on past trips  Come to think of it i don't feel that great right now


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## jharkin (Mar 20, 2013)

Not a lot more to share, as my prior (edit) 3-4 record _not_ getting sick in Asia is now 3 for 5  Which also has kept me from getting more than 3hrs sleep a night.

So far a steady pepto diet is keeping me sane, not breaking into the Cipro just yet. We did get out of the office today to go out to lunch.

India is a slow moving society in general but I noticed a couple pretty big changes-

#1 security is now intense. At all hotels and office buildings they have security checkpoints that search all cars (with a crash barrier) and all people entering and ALL luggage goes though metal detector/x-ray. This started after the Mumbai hotel attack in '08.

#2 ALL of the motor rickshaws that used to run on two stroke have now been converted to Natgas. This makes a huge difference in the smell and noise level on the street, not to mention pollution.


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## Seasoned Oak (Mar 20, 2013)

Change of food (and water quality) upsets my stomach sometimes for weeks. Pretty much lost 4 out of the 6 weeks of my last trip.


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## jharkin (Mar 20, 2013)

True that any change can cause issues,  but in India especially you have an almost 50/50 chance of contracting E.Coli even if you are careful due to poor water quality standards, lacking sanitation and almost universally contaminated produce.  Not to mention rarer cases of Cholera, shigella, cryptosporum, giardiasis, trichinosis, etc.

The only true defense is to eat nothing that inst steaming hot when it hits your plate (clean and dry!  not wet from a rinse in contaminated tap water) and tons of hand sanitizer but that's not always possible.

The most warnings are given about the water, but in truth most of the people who do get sick were careful about drinking bottled. Its usually eating unwashed vegetables, cross contaminated food from poor hygiene in restaurant kitchens, something that spoiled sitting out in a buffet, unpasteurized dairy, etc.


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## jharkin (Mar 20, 2013)

oh and I finally slept for 8 hours!


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## Jags (Mar 21, 2013)

This place sounds "glorious" for a foodie.


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## Seasoned Oak (Mar 21, 2013)

Jags said:


> This place sounds "glorious" for a foodie.


Actually theres plenty of fast food franchises in most of these places. I dont normally eat at Mcdonalds,KFC.Pizza Hut ,ect,but when in foreign countries its often a good choice.


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## Jags (Mar 21, 2013)

Seasoned Oak said:


> Actually theres plenty of fast food franchises in most of these places. I dont normally eat at Mcdonalds,KFC.Pizza Hut ,ect,but when in foreign countries its often a good choice.


 
I think I will stick with the E-coli soup if those are my other choices.


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## Ashful (Mar 21, 2013)

I work with three guys who have to make frequent trips to India.  It's rare that they make a trip without getting some major stomach ailment.

I enjoyed this movie, and always assumed it must be a pretty good look at an American working in India, although I guess I wouldn't really know:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outsourced_(film)


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## Swedishchef (Mar 21, 2013)

Sweet Jharkin!! I don't get to go that far for my "business" trips. Although 16 hours of flights doesn't sound overly appealing...

A


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## Seasoned Oak (Mar 21, 2013)

Jags said:


> I think I will stick with the E-coli soup if those are my other choices.


Actually i ate at a Pizza Hut in asia and it was WAY better than the one in my hometown. Also McDonalds serves things like barbequed chicken with rice and spagetti. Its actually pretty good and you can order online and have it delivered hot to your rooftop suite hotel within 30 minutes. I never got sick from any franchised FF joints food while abroad.


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## Jags (Mar 21, 2013)

"and I want a large order of Mcfalafels and a McSwarma and a fig shake"


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## Ashful (Mar 21, 2013)

Seasoned Oak said:


> I never got sick from any franchised FF joints food while abroad.


 
You were a broad?!?

Sorry...


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## jharkin (Mar 21, 2013)

Oak is right. Fast food joints are sometimes the safest place the world over because the corporation enforces strict kitchen food safety standards locals might not. I didn't this time, but ate at a McD's the first time I came to India in 05.

The food at McDs was similar, but not exactly the same as home. The fries had a slightly different taste due to different oil. No hamburgers for obvious reasons but they had all kinds of fried and grilled chicken and fish sandwiches. I remembered the fried chicken was hot with indian spices. Regular coke was available along with local Indian soda and drinks like lassi.

Photos below I took in 05. It was monsoon season that time I came...


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## jharkin (Mar 21, 2013)

A couple other interesting shots from that old trip (first of 3 including this time) as I had more sightseeing time then...

City scenes...







The ever present motor rickshaws




Parvati Temple




A street temple erected during the festival of Ganesha. People line up to give offerings of coconuts (you cant see the truck in the back collecting them all, which get sent around to the front to the offering line again  ) This is a week long celebration in September that's very big in the state of Maharashtra. At the end of the festival the crowds march to dump all the Ganesh icons in the river.


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## jharkin (Mar 21, 2013)

Back to today.  A couple more streets scenes from this week including a shot of the hotel.  Also our group out to lunch at a local hotel restaurant.

Traffic in Pune is at least 50% motorcycles and scooters, because Pune has minimal public transit. In Mumbai there are more cars than bikes, as the distances are longer and the bus system is better developed (plus there is a subway under construction).  Traffic is completely random and vehicles NEVER stop for pedestrians. YOu will notice a lot of hte bikers and pedestrians wearing face scarves, this is to protect against the dust in the dry season.


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## jharkin (Mar 21, 2013)

And this is our group out for lunch the other day. My company employs almost 1,100 people here in Pune spread across 2 buildings, of which 800+ are R&D. My job is to manage one of the local quality assurance teams here and I am a consultant to the overall R&D organization to promote quality coding practices among our software developers.


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## jharkin (Mar 21, 2013)

I should add that I finally got sleep on wed and thu and my digestion seems to be recovering. Didn't need to resort to the Cipro so far 

Time to go to work (its 9am here, which is 11:30pm Friday on the east coast)


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## Seasoned Oak (Mar 22, 2013)

Those roadside barbeque places look and smell inviting until you realize the owners may be miles from home with no place to wash up or keep utensils(and their hands)clean . The first time you see someone walk to a nearby wall or tree and take a squirt and then come right back and handle the food,will probably swear you off these places.


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## Swedishchef (Mar 22, 2013)

jharkin said:


> And this is our group out for lunch the other day. My company employs almost 1,100 people here in Pune spread across 2 buildings, of which 800+ are R&D. My job is to manage one of the local quality assurance teams here and I am a consultant to the overall R&D organization to promote quality coding practices among our software developers.
> 
> View attachment 97449


 So which one are you?


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## jharkin (Mar 24, 2013)

I'll try and sort the last couple days photos after I get settled in at home (sitting in Schiphol right now). One cool thing on the flight back was we flew over Dubai at night in totally clear air. Its quite a site all litup at night with the artificial island, whish I could had taken photos.


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## jharkin (Mar 25, 2013)

The trip back was very uneventful this time   No delays and pretty clear weather for most of the flight.  As mentioned above I got to see the Persian Gulf at night which was cool.

Overall I just didn't take so many pictures this time around, but here are a few more.

First some additional street scenes.


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## jharkin (Mar 25, 2013)

Friday night before I left I went out for dinner and beers with a bunch of my friends there..  Many pitchers of kingfisher but no photographic evidence 

Then on Saturday before we left my local manager invited us over to his house and we went out shopping at a local mall and had lunch.  His new apartment is in one of the new developments which you can see below. Its a huge and very modern complex of buildings. In the first photo you can see the complex health center in the central courtyard, and then from the second is the view off his balcony (see the shanty town reminding you this is still India). And then some shots of the mall that is also very modern.


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## jharkin (Mar 25, 2013)

One must always pay attention to the water in India.  The hotel gives you a few every day. The bottles have warning labels on them to crush after use - street vendors are known to refill old ones and super glue the caps back on. I ALWAYS check the mfg date printed on the bottle and look it over for signs of tampering. Ive sent bottles back at restuarants that looked a bit old.


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## jharkin (Mar 25, 2013)

I was going to take a lot of photos on the drive back to the Airport in Mubmai but ended up shooting mostly video instead. Here is one of the only good shots I got.

The route to the airport is about 70 miles, about 50 miles is expressway over the mountains and through some farm country. Going down the mountain is scary at times, its very winding (think that IRT trucker show) and the driver is careening through traffic. We say one overturned truck on the downhill sections and a couple burnt out cars from high speed wrecks later on.

The 70 mile trip takes 4 hours - on a GOOD day - mostly due to traffic over the last 5-10 miles across downtown Mumbai.

After the drive its 4 hours in the airport, 10 hours to Amsterdam, another 4 hours in the airport then 8 more to Boston. As an aside the level of security in both Mumbai and Amsterdam makes getting through the airpoort in the US seem trivial. I had to pass 3 security checkpoints before getting onboard in Mumbai alone.


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## Swedishchef (Mar 25, 2013)

There must be a few residents in MUmbai eh? A few more than Boston I presume


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## Seasoned Oak (Mar 25, 2013)

Looks like many other asian countries.Ultra modern with some shanty towns mixed in. Most countries dont put up the poor in modern apts like the US does and pay all their bills.


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## Hearth Mistress (Mar 25, 2013)

jharkin said:


> Not Shanghai  This time I am on the sub-contintent.
> 
> 
> I am in sunny Pune, India - about 75 miles inland from Mumbai
> ...



Jeesh, and to think I complain about going to Detroit a lot for my work


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## jharkin (Mar 26, 2013)

Seasoned Oak said:


> Looks like many other asian countries.Ultra modern with some shanty towns mixed in. Most countries dont put up the poor in modern apts like the US does and pay all their bills.


 
Not exactly  A more accurate way to put it would be islands of relative modernity in a vast sea of poverty.

Just like all Asian countries you see a mix of modern/wealthy and poor - but there the similarity ends.  India is nothing like say, China, and I imagine in turn not like Korea, Thailand, Burma, etc...  India and China are the only ones I have personal (and admittedly very limited) experience with so I have some thoughts...

India is VERY different from China.  In China  when they decide to go modern they go ALL out and develop an entire area.  And they pull out the stops. they move very fast. In the special economic zones they can turn the third world into lower Manhattan nearly overnight.  That for example is what I see in Shanghai.... The financial area could be any major modern city in the world, with ultra modern buildings finished to impeccable standards with world class roads and infrastructure (see my old Shanghai thread).  They pour tons of money into building out the infrastructure to support it. The one party system means they can do whatever they want without regard to regulations and bureaucracy.  The poverty and environmental issues are still around - just elsewhere.

India on the other hand is the worlds largest democracy, and with it comes the largest bureaucracy and epidemic corruption.  Much of the major infrastructure is aging and ridiculously inadequate, a lot of it little improved since the Raj. They are working on improvements but in this system things take time.  Pune itself is a city of 5+ million with no international airport and minimal public transport. There are proposals for a subway and airport  but it might take 10-20 years even_ if_ it gets approved. China would do it almost overnight.  The roads are practically a war zone everywhere with garbage and construction debris.  Traffic is mayhem and police enforcement is nonexistent. Traffic cops do stop people, but only to take kickbacks.

Where China develops entire zones at once, and overnight, in India you see modern buildings going up scatter shot all mixed into the poverty. So you might drive up to that fancy western hotel on a dirt road. Also modern is an issue of degree - the office buildings look ultra modern from a far but when you look close, the standard of finish is not quite up to what we would expect, details like the paint etc are sloppy and the bathrooms might look like something from a truck stop. Only in the highest end hotels will you see uniformly excellent materials and build. They also tend to have lots of power issues and brownouts and load shedding are common, thought the issues in the area I travel to seem to have been fixed now.  Even so all business hotels, etc have diesel generators.

When you get right down to it, I guess the takeaway is that China is picking and choosing areas to force into the modern age as a way to showoff to the outside world, whereas India makes no attempt to put on a show or hide anything and is gradually but not surprisingly slowly trying to raise up the entire country.


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## Seasoned Oak (Mar 26, 2013)

The philippines looks like little india to me. The roads are equally atrocious. A few hundred wealthy families own most of the country and the big business. The main cities are quite modern and are growing fast.There somewhat of a middle class taking root mostly from foreigners retiring there with big pensions and pinoy wives. They all(asia) seem to have one thing in common,they like that huge pool of cheap labor and since most of the politicians are wealthy(like in the US) i dont see any big change in the class system.


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