# Kioti tractors



## wingsfan

Anyone here have a kioti tractor? If sio how does it perform? How easy or hard is it to get parts for if you need them? We have been thinking of getting around a 30 -35hp tractor with a loader and the wife seen an add for a kioti and the price was way lower than a deere od kabota ( which I perfer), but if they hold up and the wife likes them a tractor is a tractor,,,,,,,,,,,,,right?...Just lookin for some reviews, all the reviews I have seen so far have been good ones. We will use it to brush hog, moving dirt for the yard and help my back moving variuos items the wife thinks I sould be able to move by myself.(wood, rocks,and other heavey things).


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## Highbeam

I have had a CK30 for about 5 years now and about 1100 hours of land clearing and mowing. It was about 4000 cheaper than an inferior model of Kubota. Parts have always been available and nothing special when repairs have been needed. I just haven't had to buy anything for it in so long. PM me if you have any more questions. I trailer the machine to my rural property so it is either working hard or sitting. Dang thing weighs 4500 lbs with loader and a mower so it is not a light weight machine.


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## MasterMech

Oh goody, CUTs! (Compact Utility Tractors)

I don't own one but I used to take 'em apart for a living. Still do but it's not my primary job currently.

If you're comparing against Deere's 3x20 series machines or Kubota Grand L 40 series machines then I'm sure the price difference is indeed big. Some may argue this but IMO the finer details do count so a tractor is not just a tractor. The biggest points on these units are Engine HP, Trans type, and Hydraulic System. Most brands are damn close on the first two when comparing apples to apples but that last one is a different story. You can have all the HP in the world but if you have a slow or worse, inefficient, hydraulic system then loader/backhoe work will frustrate you.

You didn't mention which style of trans you were looking for but IMO unless you someone is giving you a free tractor, you want the hydro. There is no substitute for loader work and they hold up much better long-term. That dry clutch on a non-hydro tractor is a $3-4000 ticking time-bomb for maintenance. Of course how long it lasts depends on operator habits more than anything but if it's used on a loader tractor, then you WILL have to replace it eventually. Also on both Deere 3x20 and Kubota Grand L 40 series hydros, they're electronically controlled with some sort of torque management software that makes running the hydros at their full potential super easy and there is NO pedal feedback like there is for a mechanical hydro linkage. One thing I will ding Kioti for is the hockey-stick treadle pedal control on the HST. Kubota used to use the same part and switched to something much closer to Deere's twin touch pedals. The treadle pedals are IMO very awkward to use unless you have a size 19 shoe.

Engines have never been a weak point on any of the three brands we're talking about here but Kubota has been caught "rounding up" before. :lol: Saw that demo in person!

Kioti's loaders are a bit light on lift capacity (1150lbs) compared to Deere's 300CX (1600lbs) or the high cap option for Kubota (1800lbs!). Damn website won't give me a current model # and I can't remember it. >:-( All three are easily removed/"parked" with Kioti and Kubota looking to have identical mounting setups. Deere's loaders are ridiculously easy to park and swap front attachments on right out of the box. They have Deere's proprietary quick-connect setup stock but can also be setup with skid-steer attachment carriers which really opens up your attachment/bucket options. One nice feature of Deere's loaders are the pivot pins in every joint. They're cammed into the bushing so they always remain stationary forcing the joint to rotate around them and encouraging proper wear of the pin/bushing. They also have the grease fittings recessed into the ends and that makes lubrication a snap. The fittings are usually clean and never get snapped off from normal loader use. That's a very common problem especially for the ones located on the bucket pivot pin. Also you don't have to reposition the loader to get at the fittings. One-quick walk-around does the trick.

Deere just plain does attachments better than anyone else. Especially with regard to loaders and backhoes. They fit better, attach easier, and parts are a non-issue in my experience. Most of the other manufacturers sub-out these things or use a universal attachment that is adapted to fit. Sometimes that gets messy. 

Deere also wins the hydraulic test with highest total pump flow. (Deere 13.9 vs Kioti 12.7) but I'm having trouble finding the spec on the _implement_ pumps which are the ones that matter. Most tractors have two pumps now, one for steering and the other one for everything else. When I had access to all the dealer info, it was typical for Deere to have a bigger implement pump than competitive machines with similar total GPM ratings. Therein lies the secret of superior loader/backhoe cycle times! Also would be a consideration if you wanted to run say, a log splitter, off of the tractor hydraulics via a Power Beyond kit.

To be continued!


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## MasterMech

Kioti seems to be building what Kubota did 10 years ago. Thatâ€™s not a bad thing. 

Having had both green and orange tractors in many, many pieces, I can say they are both quality machines and I can find very little to pick on internally for either Kubota or Deere. Kubotaâ€™s external hydraulics used more hoses than I liked. They were an occasional maintenance point/failure and hoses always rob more power than hardlines. IIRC on everything on Deereâ€™s recent CUTs (at least as far back as the 4x00 series) are completely plumbed via hardlines, which also helps keep heat/friction losses to a minimum. 

I also noticed differences in the electrical systems concerning the quality/type of connections used. For the most part Deere used WeatherPak connectors which are water tight and very reliable plus easy to disconnect for service. Kubota had more traditional blade-type terminals in open plastic connectors. Plus for heavy maintenance you had to disconnect all of the connections (bolt/screw type) from the engine and controls, pull the whole harness back to the rear of the tractor and then you could â€œsplitâ€ the machine for access to the clutch/trans. 

Operator platforms and fit/finish were strong points for green machines too. I know everybody poo poos plastic but the uber-high quality stuff on the 3x20 series and 4x20 series tractors is amazing. Itâ€™s flexible at all temps, very very durable and green all the way through so scratches donâ€™t look awful. Itâ€™ll never rust, dent or bend. Itâ€™s not painted so minor scuffs/scratches will not affect itâ€™s long term aesthetic or durability. It's amazing how well a pressure washer will clean up a Deere that's piled high with mud and horse manure. I used to hate assembling new Kubotas because of the painted steel fenders and decks. It was waaaaay to easy to scratch paint while mounting parts to the tractor so it cost us (the dealer) to repaint parts on brand-new machines. Park a 10 year-old Kubota next to a 10 year-old Deere and assuming both machines have been used similarly, the differences are obvious. 

Of course green paint wins the resale game every time (by far!) too so that's a consideration if you ever see yourself upgrading or selling the machine down the road.


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## oldspark

MasterMech-who builds the JD tractors you are talking about?


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## MasterMech

oldspark said:
			
		

> MasterMech-who builds the JD tractors you are talking about?



Deere builds every thing from the 3x20 tractors on up.  The little ones, 2000 series, and I _believe_, but cannot confirm, the new 1000 series subcompacts are upgraded Yanmar machines.  I do not know for sure where final Deere-ification is performed (Augusta GA?, According to the serials that start with LV.) The engines on the 3x20 series are Yanmars, Kanzaki Transmissions for the hydros, The 4x20 series are Deere engines and Kanzaki trans there too I think. 5000 Series are all Deere as far as I know.  3's, 4's, 5's are built in Augusta GA, 6's are Mannheim Germany, and 7's 8's & 9's are Waterloo IA to the best of my knowledge.  Factory Cabs for the 3x20 and 4x20 series CUTs are built in Waterloo (Same plant they build the Ag tractor cabs in.) and shipped to Augusta.  At least that's how they started doing it.  Attachments like Loaders, Backhoes, Front-mount snowblowers, and all other Deere built attachments are built in Wisconsin at Horicon Works.  Most of their 3pt attachments are supplied by Frontier (a subsidiary of Deere) and those are built by various vendors including but not limited to Harley, Danuser?, Landpride, and Woods.  You can figure it out via the model # of the attachment but I don't have the list/breakdown anymore.  If you're still with me, D100 series tractors are built in Greeneville TN BY DEERE  (as all Lightning platform tractors have since introduced in 2003 as Sabre/Scotts, believe '04 was the first year for Deere branding.)  X300 thru X700 :coolgrin: machines are built in Horicon Works as are most if not all of their commercial mowing equipment models.  Deere does still do some private labeling, their snowblowers are built by Briggs And Stratton Power Products (as are Snapper and some Simplicity units), the residential (not the W models) walk-mowers are Snappers, and Briggs supplies pressure washers that you see at HD and Lowes.  An excellent company called Mi-T-M (Mighty M) builds the rest of Deere's small equipment line, including water/trash pumps, more pressure washers, and generators as well.  They also supply a lot of John Deere branded toolboxes, tools, air compressors, BBQ grills, heaters, pellet stoves, and wet/dry vacs.

BTW: 2012 is the last year for Deere walk-mowers and snowblowers.  Starting this year Deere dealers were given the option to carry Honda Power Equipment.

Most of what you see/buy/use here is built in the USA but John Deere is a global company that manufactures/markets their products in several different countries around the world.

If anybody spots errors in my info then please let me know as this was rattled off the top of my head!


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## oldspark

I guess my point is some of the Green Paint you pay for comes from Japan.


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## flyingcow

A group like this board resides at www.tractorbynet.com  Go to the forums section


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## Highbeam

oldspark said:
			
		

> I guess my point is some of the Green Paint you pay for comes from Japan.



Very true, many folks don't realize that john-deere sells many many korean/chinese machines. Pretty sure everything a homeowner would buy is non-american. I've been told to get over this "made in america" kick and realize that we live in a global economy. My grandfather would never buy a japanese (foreign) television, no choice now.

What size of machine are we talking about here? 30 hp? 50 hp? 90 hp? Makes a big difference.


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## MasterMech

Highbeam said:
			
		

> oldspark said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess my point is some of the Green Paint you pay for comes from Japan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very true, many folks don't realize that john-deere sells many many korean/chinese machines. Pretty sure everything a homeowner would buy is non-america. I've been told to get over this "made in america" kick and realize that we live in a global economy. My grandfather would never buy a Japanese (foreign) television, no choice now.
> 
> What size of machine are we talking about here? 30 hp? 50 hp? 90 hp? Makes a big difference.
Click to expand...


I believe the OP is looking for something in the 30-40hp range based on his intended use.

Where do you get Korean?  JD has business in China but I'm not aware of any models being exported to the US, yet.  FWIW: Kioti's are Korean.

"Everything a homeowner would buy" is built in Greenville TN, Horicon WI, or Augusta GA. My geography teacher confirms that these places are still part of the USA. One might argue that 1000 and 2000 series tractors (18 - 30 HP, Sub-compacts and Small-frame compacts) are more Japanese (Yanmar/Kanzaki) than American but they are still assembled and painted right here in the USA. They are not carbon copies of Yanmars painted green, as they have features that are not present on a basic Yanmar. (Usually improved hydraulics and operator platforms/controls plus the hoods and fenders are unique to Deere.)

I enjoy buying American and do so whenever their is a domestic product available that is of _superior_ quality. Unfortunately, in my business (Outdoor Power Equipment Repair) American brands are keeping me busy and well fed. The MTD brands (Troy-Bilt, White, Yard-Man, Yard Machine, Cub Cadet [say it ain't so!], Ryobi, and of course Craftsman) Murray (before they folded), Briggs and Stratton, Tecumseh (before they went under as well, and others are widely considered "inferior" to the likes of Honda, Kawasaki, Robin Subaru, Stihl, Husqvarna, which are all brands that are considered "foreign" whether they manufacture some of their product in the USA or not.

HighBeam is right in that you don't get much choice these days if you truly want to "Buy American."  Find a lawn tractor with a Kohler or Briggs engine that doesn't have a Kanzaki Tuff-Torq transaxle under it.  MTD is your best bet there but I thought we were after a quality machine that was going to last forever?  :-S 

I have some of that green paint at home, I'll have to look and see where it was made but I'm pretty sure it wasn't Japan. ;-)


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## wingsfan

Thanks for all the info. Looks like we are going to look at the kiotis this saturday.Mastermch, that is one nice write up with alot of helpful info. Gives me some things to look for.Thanks again.


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## oldspark

Mastermech-looked into tractors a while back and a bunch of the smaller JD have overseas parts in them, buying American aint what it used to be, I ended up with a ford and it aint American either, many people are shocked that Yanmar makes some of the JD stuff, Yanmar tractors have a very good reputation also.


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## DanCorcoran

Manufactured goods are being built globally.  America is becoming multi-racial and multi-cultural.  Sigh...I think I'll have another glass of Scotch.


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## oldspark

I thought about the Kioti tractors but they have not made it to the midwest yet, finially decided a new one was more money than I wanted to spend since I needed attachments for it also.


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## ironpony

DanCorcoran said:
			
		

> Manufactured goods are being built globally.  *America is becoming multi-racial and multi-cultural*.  Sigh...I think I'll have another glass of Scotch.





but none of the other countries will let Americans or American products in

go figure


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## DanCorcoran

Uh, I think we've been exporting for the last 100 years.  Another glass of (imported) Scotch...interesting to read about the Kioti tractors.  I'd only heard of Kubota.


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## MasterMech

DanCorcoran said:
			
		

> Uh, I think we've been exporting for the last 100 years.  Another glass of (imported) Scotch...interesting to read about the Kioti tractors.  I'd only heard of Kubota.



Kioti is certainly an "up and coming" brand.  Getting very popular around here.


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## Larry in OK

I've got a Kioti CK20S. It is their smallest model. I've had it a little over a year now and the only problem I've had with is it is a bolt in the loader joystick backed out. The dealer gave me the entire loader joystick rebuild kit to fix it. a drop of locktite has prevented any further problems there. 
I pull a 4' PTO tiller with it and it handles it with authority in my clay soil. The loader is rated at 1000# to full lift and has done everything I've asked it to do.
In my opinion Kioti is a good machine.
When it comes down to the bottom line your dealer will make or break the brand for you whatever color you buy.


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## KodiakII

They are crap!  Do yourself a favor and buy a Kubota or a Bobcat.  Remember the caveat- you get what you pay for!


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## Highbeam

Listen here Kodiak. Bobcat tractors are made by Kioti. Are you serious? Did you really just step into that pile of poo?


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## oldspark

KodiakII said:
			
		

> They are crap!  Do yourself a favor and buy a Kubota or a Bobcat.  Remember the caveat- you get what you pay for!


 Ok you need to back that up with facts, not fair to do a "fly by" and go hide, I have seen posts like this before about Kioti tractors on other forums and they could not back up what they said.


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## wkpoor

Under a 100hp will all be built over seas. Its crap but the fact. I don't endorse JD but if you want the best insurance to be able to service it 20-30-40 or more yrs fro now that will be the brand. Several yrs ago I almost bought a Long. Dealer even said no guarantees. He was right as they went under. I do like many of he features on the Kioti but me personally wouldn't take a chance unless I had money to blow. Here today gone tomorrow. Kobota has proven their a long term company so that would be where I would gamble.


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## peakbagger

Back when the US was starting to trade with the soviets, the ruble was worthless. US company's would sell products to the soviets and get paid with goods made somewhere in the soviet union. The US supplier would then sell the soviet goods wherever they could. I beleive Belaurus tractors were sourced that way.  They had the reputation of being very rugged but with lots of quality issues. A friend looked at one and the dealer threw in a case of spare parts that would almost build another tractor.  He was told up front that there was no long term support. They did have nice paint jobs and were dirt cheap. 

I think Northern Power used to get some of these soviet tractros long ago when they were starting out. 

If someone figures these off brands are disposable that got what they paid for but good luck if they want to keep them long term.


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## oldspark

Dont think Kiotis are disposable.


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## KodiakII

oldspark said:
			
		

> KodiakII said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are crap!  Do yourself a favor and buy a Kubota or a Bobcat.  Remember the caveat- you get what you pay for!
> 
> 
> 
> Ok you need to back that up with facts, not fair to do a "fly by" and go hide, I have seen posts like this before about Kioti tractors on other forums and they could not back up what they said.
Click to expand...


Not hiding anywhere, just waiting for the shidt to hit the fan.  Their "skid steer" is absolute junk, and their tractors are not far behind.  I have a very close relative who works for a heavy equipment dealer, they won't work on them because parts are nothing but a head ache to try to get and for that reason they won't even take them in on trade.  Broken down motors, cracked loader arms...they have seen it all.  You  Never see one in the trailer of a landscaper for a reason!
There you go have at her boys!  Say what you want buy what you want, but you will never change my mind!!


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## firefighterjake

KodiakII said:
			
		

> oldspark said:
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> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> KodiakII said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are crap!  Do yourself a favor and buy a Kubota or a Bobcat.  Remember the caveat- you get what you pay for!
> 
> 
> 
> Ok you need to back that up with facts, not fair to do a "fly by" and go hide, I have seen posts like this before about Kioti tractors on other forums and they could not back up what they said.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not hiding anywhere, just waiting for the shidt to hit the fan.  Their "skid steer" is absolute junk, and their tractors are not far behind.  I have a very close relative who works for a heavy equipment dealer, they won't work on them because parts are nothing but a head ache to try to get and for that reason they won't even take them in on trade.  Broken down motors, cracked loader arms...they have seen it all.  You  Never see one in the trailer of a landscaper for a reason!
> There you go have at her boys!  Say what you want buy what you want, but you will never change my mind!!
Click to expand...


Strong in the Force this one is . . .


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## oldspark

firefighterjake said:
			
		

> KodiakII said:
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> oldspark said:
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> KodiakII said:
> 
> 
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> They are crap!  Do yourself a favor and buy a Kubota or a Bobcat.  Remember the caveat- you get what you pay for!
> 
> 
> 
> Ok you need to back that up with facts, not fair to do a "fly by" and go hide, I have seen posts like this before about Kioti tractors on other forums and they could not back up what they said.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not hiding anywhere, just waiting for the shidt to hit the fan.  Their "skid steer" is absolute junk, and their tractors are not far behind.  I have a very close relative who works for a heavy equipment dealer, they won't work on them because parts are nothing but a head ache to try to get and for that reason they won't even take them in on trade.  Broken down motors, cracked loader arms...they have seen it all.  You  Never see one in the trailer of a landscaper for a reason!
> There you go have at her boys!  Say what you want buy what you want, but you will never change my mind!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Strong in the Force this one is . . .
Click to expand...

 And he very well may have a good point, so buyer beware I guess, some people seem to have good luck with them.


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## wkpoor

KodiakII said:
			
		

> oldspark said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KodiakII said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are crap!  Do yourself a favor and buy a Kubota or a Bobcat.  Remember the caveat- you get what you pay for!
> 
> 
> 
> Ok you need to back that up with facts, not fair to do a "fly by" and go hide, I have seen posts like this before about Kioti tractors on other forums and they could not back up what they said.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not hiding anywhere, just waiting for the shidt to hit the fan.  Their "skid steer" is absolute junk, and their tractors are not far behind.  I have a very close relative who works for a heavy equipment dealer, they won't work on them because parts are nothing but a head ache to try to get and for that reason they won't even take them in on trade.  Broken down motors, cracked loader arms...they have seen it all.  You  Never see one in the trailer of a landscaper for a reason!
> There you go have at her boys!  Say what you want buy what you want, but you will never change my mind!!
Click to expand...

Hey Kodiak Man, I've been called out before on the forum too. I've put my Phone # right in the post. Somebody want to call and have a civil conversation feel free. Sometimes that will clear the air right away hehehehe. No ones ever called yet.


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## Highbeam

The phone is like the fax machine.

I didn't even know that Kioti made a skid steer. Kioti does make bobcat tractors though. Parts interchange and everything so if you need a Kioti part you can always go buy a Bobcat part instead. Kioti tractors have been around for decades but are certainly not as common as the big brands of JD, NH, and Kubota. You can save thousands of dollars by avoiding those big brands but there is an element of risk.


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## MasterMech

I don't see any more risk in buying a Kioti today than buying a Kubota 15 years ago....  If long-term parts availability is your chief concern then wkpoor is right, you should be buying green machinery.  You really gotta look HARD to find a "bad" tractor out there.  The Northern catalog is a good place to start but even those are improving quickly.  5 years ago you could've given me one with a  1 ton Diesel and 10 ton trailer to go with it and I'd have said no thanks.  (Anybody who actually wants to do that, PM me... NOW. :lol

wkpoor - I can think of only 1 major brand manufacturing tractors under 100HP in the USA.  That includes both engine and tranny.  Folks seem to dislike them cause of all the "expensive paint" tho.  :roll:  (Most, but not all 5000 series Deere's are domestic to the best of my knowledge.  Some of the specialty models for orchards and vineyards come from India.)


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## wkpoor

> wkpoor - I can think of only 1 major brand manufacturing tractors under 100HP in the USA.  That includes both engine and tranny.  Folks seem to dislike them cause of all the â€œexpensive paintâ€ tho.    (Most, but not all 5000 series Deereâ€™s are domestic to the best of my knowledge.  Some of the specialty models for orchards and vineyards come from India.)


My 1995 5400 was made in Georgia. Don't know if they still are or not. That 5000 series tractor is a huge bargain IMO and can still be bought for what people are paying for 30-45hp tractors that don't really have 30-45hp. I bought my used with a 520 loader, 1200hrs on the meter for 16.9k without a scratch on the paint. I really like some of the options on the Kioti and Kubota tractors and some I wish I had. But for that price I have a tractor that can lift 3500lbs on the loader and do it day in and day out with out any trouble and if I need a part, any part, I can have it the next day. Haven't needed any yet.


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## oldspark

The expensive paint comment has been made by many many farmers here in Iowa and not just talking about runt tractors, big ones too, not a big deal, been that way for a long time, JD's are pricey.


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## Highbeam

I had an international bulldozer for a few years. I had a hard time finding some parts and made some on a lathe. The john deere dozers, the little JD350/450size, had excellent parts availability. I was jealous. 

The paint was yellow though.


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## Nixon

Highbeam said:
			
		

> I had an international bulldozer for a few years. I had a hard time finding some parts and made some on a lathe. The john deere dozers, the little JD350/450size, had excellent parts availability. I was jealous.
> 
> The paint was yellow though.


High beam , Just curious, didn't You have some problems with Your Fel a few years back ? How was that handled by Kioti ?


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## DanCorcoran

For long-term parts availability, buy an American brand, like you know, a Ford tractor.  Sorry, Fiat tractor...


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## flyingcow

DanCorcoran said:
			
		

> For long-term parts availability, buy an American brand, like you know, a Ford tractor.  Sorry, Fiat tractor...



i got a New Holland tractor.....made in Italy


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## SolarAndWood

I always enjoy these tractor banter threads.  In the end, should these "2nd tier" machines be considered for a 40 year investment or is one better off with a used 160 hour green machine like this for mowing, blowing, loading and rototilling?


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## oldspark

Well I went with a Ford that had a very good reputation for longivity but a JD in the correct price range would have been fine, I do know any manufactor is capable of putting out lemons so ya buy something you think will last. Why would you consider some of these tractors 2nd tier when most of JD small tractors are made overseas?


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## wkpoor

If I were to hit loto and want to buy a new tractor I wouldn't necessarily buy Deere as there is a case I really like but I wouldn't cross Deere off the list. They have built quite a reputation of supporting what they make where ever they make it. I have collected antiques over the yrs but never have owned an old Deere. But having owned a modern Deere (farm tractor) they have done a fantastic job of creating a durable product that will survive time probably better than the antiques.


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## Highbeam

Nixon said:
			
		

> Highbeam said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had an international bulldozer for a few years. I had a hard time finding some parts and made some on a lathe. The john deere dozers, the little JD350/450size, had excellent parts availability. I was jealous.
> 
> The paint was yellow though.
> 
> 
> 
> High beam , Just curious, didn't You have some problems with Your Fel a few years back ? How was that handled by Kioti ?
Click to expand...


Kioti replaced my loader free of charge with the newly designed loader that has not had any problems. The loaders are actually very capable compared to all other brands when you compare similar sized tractors. Lift capacity is a strong point.

Just this last weekend I used the loader to extract a rented ditch witch trencher that I had buried in the mud.


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## MasterMech

SolarAndWood said:
			
		

> I always enjoy these tractor banter threads.  In the end, should these "2nd tier" machines be considered for a 40 year investment or is one better off with a used 160 hour green machine like this for mowing, blowing, loading and rototilling?



Nice to see the newer 200CX loader on that machine.  Can't read the model # but I'm guessing it's a 4110 or 4115.   Either way they were great little tractors.  Lift Cap on the loader should be about 800 lbs at the pin if ballasted properly.  Wheel weights and the ballast box are pluses especially if you want to mow with that machine.  Easy to shed the extra weight when you don't want/need it.  At 160 hours it's not even ready for it's 1st real service yet!  Only caveat with that one is that the plastics are delicate and wicked expensive.  Newer 2x20 series has much more durable plastics.

I'd go up to the mid frames (4210, 4310, 4410 or newer 3x20 machines) If you want to do more than occasional FEL work but if you only need the loader for light duty stuff then that machine will do well.


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## DanCorcoran

flyingcow said:
			
		

> DanCorcoran said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For long-term parts availability, buy an American brand, like you know, a Ford tractor.  Sorry, Fiat tractor...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i got a New Holland tractor.....made in Italy
Click to expand...


Yes, I was surprised to learn that New Holland is owned by Fiat.


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## MasterMech

DanCorcoran said:
			
		

> flyingcow said:
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> DanCorcoran said:
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> For long-term parts availability, buy an American brand, like you know, a Ford tractor.  Sorry, Fiat tractor...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i got a New Holland tractor.....made in Italy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, I was surprised to learn that New Holland is owned by Fiat.
Click to expand...


Not anymore... They moved to Shibaura (same tractor as the little Case/IHs for awhile) Last I heard they were now being made by a subsidiary of LG, in Korea.


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## DanCorcoran

Check out two Wikipedia entries: New Holland Agriculture and LG Tractors.  Sounds to me as though there may be some LS-New Holland joint venture models sold somewhere (probably Far East markets), but that most New Holland-branded models are manufactured in one of the 22 other plants worldwide listed in the first article.


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## oldspark

MasterMech said:
			
		

> DanCorcoran said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> flyingcow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DanCorcoran said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For long-term parts availability, buy an American brand, like you know, a Ford tractor.  Sorry, Fiat tractor...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i got a New Holland tractor.....made in Italy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, I was surprised to learn that New Holland is owned by Fiat.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not anymore... They moved to Shibaura (same tractor as the little Case/IHs for awhile) Last I heard they were now being made by a subsidiary of LG, in Korea.
Click to expand...

 My 88 Ford has a Shibaura engine in it, I thought they quit those a while back.


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## MasterMech

oldspark said:
			
		

> MasterMech said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DanCorcoran said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> flyingcow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DanCorcoran said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For long-term parts availability, buy an American brand, like you know, a Ford tractor.  Sorry, Fiat tractor...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i got a New Holland tractor.....made in Italy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, I was surprised to learn that New Holland is owned by Fiat.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not anymore... They moved to Shibaura (same tractor as the little Case/IHs for awhile) Last I heard they were now being made by a subsidiary of LG, in Korea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My 88 Ford has a Shibaura engine in it, I thought they quit those a while back.
Click to expand...


http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/new-holland-buying-pricing/234338-shibura-built-compact.html

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/new-holland-buying-pricing/233637-new-holland-subcompacts.html

Seems to me that most of the New Hollands were Shibaura powered or built to some degree until very recently where LS is taking over.  Looks like LG was in on the game for some models too.  You guys have me doing some serious digging now, :lol: and by the tone of the dealers in that last thread I linked to, they're getting very frustrated with the musical manufacturers and product gaps.  From a dealer's perspective, NOTHING is worse than having a customer walk in wanting a product you should, but don't, have. 

I worked the pi$$ out of two Ford 1920's (One a TLB setup and the other is a plain "tractor") and we had a 2910 that while it was loud, leaky and smelly, was pretty reliable despite having 9000 hours on it!  Machine pretty much started up at 5am and ran until 1-2pm towing a BIG finish mower.  (anybody here know what a Pro-Flex is?) Did that 5-6 days a week from April 1 thru October 31st or whenever the grass calmed down.  It was sold/retired last season.  The 1920's are getting pretty tired, especially the TLB, but still fire up reliably and work as advertised.   Definitely have some respect for Old Blue Iron of the era!






http://www.progressiveturfequip.com/products/pf/videos/pf_vid.php - See it in action.

BTW: Belt drives to each of those decks is a NIGHTMARE!  :bug:

Pic Attached of the TLB 1920.


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## oldspark

That 1920 looks like my 2120, my loader is the 7109 (I think) but it has the turf tires also. So far I am happy with it, about 2200 hours is all it has on it.


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## oldspark

I hope the OP is not getting bored. :smirk:


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## ironpony

well my .02 cents
I have a green one and two orange ones
I also had a 1937 green one
I could walk into the dealer and buy parts for it
can not say that about others..............


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## wingsfan

oldspark said:
			
		

> I hope the OP is not getting bored. :smirk:



Original poster here, no i'm not getting bored , just soakin in all the info. Now i'm not sure what direction we are gonna go.Sheesh.


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## MasterMech

Get on 'em. Drive 'em. Kick the tires. Hard.

You'll figure out what you like as far as controls and ergonomics that way.

A good dealer will steer you towards a machine you'll love to own by listening to your needs and preferences.  A bad one will try to sell you whatever he has to get off his floor plan!

Try some of the tractor forum sites.  They talk this stuff out 24/7!


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## oldspark

wingsfan said:
			
		

> oldspark said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope the OP is not getting bored. :smirk:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Original poster here, no i'm not getting bored , just soakin in all the info. Now i'm not sure what direction we are gonna go.Sheesh.
Click to expand...

 Your welcome! :cheese:


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## Butcher

Well, I'm gonna stick my nose into this here party just fer the heck of it.
Dont know nothing bout these new tractors cuz I like the old ones speacially when it comes to price. But iffn it hasnt been said yet on this thread, the dealer and their service and parts dept's should be looked at long and hard as to reputation. I've often thought if I had the $$ I would like 1 of them new Bobcat tractors (same as Koita) but the dealer here as a messed up service deptment. They are also a rental place and with only 2 bobcat mechanics they are more inclined to repair the rental units first and work on the customers stuff later. I had our 863 skidloader in there several years ago for some major repairs that I wasnt equiped to do myself and it was there for a month! Every night on the way back to the shop I would stop and check on the progress and sure enough they would be working on thier moneymakers. For that reason alone I would never buy new from them. Just my 2 cents worth.


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## MasterMech

Butcher said:
			
		

> Well, I'm gonna stick my nose into this here party just fer the heck of it.
> Dont know nothing bout these new tractors cuz I like the old ones speacially when it comes to price. But iffn it hasnt been said yet on this thread, the dealer and their service and parts dept's should be looked at long and hard as to reputation. I've often thought if I had the $$ I would like 1 of them new Bobcat tractors (same as Koita) but the dealer here as a messed up service deptment. They are also a rental place and with only 2 bobcat mechanics they are more inclined to repair the rental units first and work on the customers stuff later. I had our 863 skidloader in there several years ago for some major repairs that I wasnt equiped to do myself and it was there for a month! Every night on the way back to the shop I would stop and check on the progress and sure enough they would be working on thier moneymakers. For that reason alone I would never buy new from them. Just my 2 cents worth.



This is sage advice.  It has been my experience that a great dealer selling a decent product will outsell a mediocre dealer selling a great product!


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## DanCorcoran

MasterMech,
You use those mowers on golf courses?


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## MasterMech

DanCorcoran said:
			
		

> MasterMech,
> You use those mowers on golf courses?



The Proflex? Yes we did, up until last season.  Replaced it with a Jacobsen HR5111.

Some courses, like ours, have MASSIVE amounts of rough to mow.


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## SolarAndWood

oldspark said:
			
		

> Why would you consider some of these tractors 2nd tier when most of JD small tractors are made overseas?



2nd tier was a little facetious and was quoted as such.  I have a 30 year old blue Shibaura that serves me very well and a 30 year old onan powered green machine 5' mower that pisses me off.  It is the Onan part not the JD part that irritates me.  That 4110 has an ancient designed JD blower on it, a new styled quick attach loader, a JD belly mower, a Curtis cab and a Yanmar motor that entices me.  I've been shopping for a 55 series for all steel but that package at the price they are asking is pretty compelling.


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## jross47

wingsfan said:


> Anyone here have a kioti tractor? If sio how does it perform? How easy or hard is it to get parts for if you need them? We have been thinking of getting around a 30 -35hp tractor with a loader and the wife seen an add for a kioti and the price was way lower than a deere od kabota ( which I perfer), but if they hold up and the wife likes them a tractor is a tractor,,,,,,,,,,,,,right?...Just lookin for some reviews, all the reviews I have seen so far have been good ones. We will use it to brush hog, moving dirt for the yard and help my back moving variuos items the wife thinks I sould be able to move by myself.(wood, rocks,and other heavey things).


 

Fellow wood burners:

I have a Kioti CK20s a tiny 23HP tractor ....so far it's awesome.  It runs my new logsplitter just fine with the in/out plugs in back.  lately I've been having  problem however mowing uphill. I'm gonna troubleshoot today...but as I mow uphill with the warmed up tractor it starts to die on me after 10-20 ft of mowing on a moderate grade of 10deg or so.   This is pissing me off!   I've got 225 hrs on and changed hydraulic fluid at 50 hrs and again I will do it at 400  but something isnot right.  It may be that the mower has a problem but I've been greasing it ev 50hrs.  so that leaves??????.....it's pissing me off.  advice is appreciated.

Jims Brain


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## jross47

MasterMech said:


> Oh goody, CUTs! (Compact Utility Tractors)
> 
> I don't own one but I used to take 'em apart for a living. Still do but it's not my primary job currently.
> 
> If you're comparing against Deere's 3x20 series machines or Kubota Grand L 40 series machines then I'm sure the price difference is indeed big. Some may argue this but IMO the finer details do count so a tractor is not just a tractor. The biggest points on these units are Engine HP, Trans type, and Hydraulic System. Most brands are damn close on the first two when comparing apples to apples but that last one is a different story. You can have all the HP in the world but if you have a slow or worse, inefficient, hydraulic system then loader/backhoe work will frustrate you.
> 
> You didn't mention which style of trans you were looking for but IMO unless you someone is giving you a free tractor, you want the hydro. There is no substitute for loader work and they hold up much better long-term. That dry clutch on a non-hydro tractor is a $3-4000 ticking time-bomb for maintenance. Of course how long it lasts depends on operator habits more than anything but if it's used on a loader tractor, then you WILL have to replace it eventually. Also on both Deere 3x20 and Kubota Grand L 40 series hydros, they're electronically controlled with some sort of torque management software that makes running the hydros at their full potential super easy and there is NO pedal feedback like there is for a mechanical hydro linkage. One thing I will ding Kioti for is the hockey-stick treadle pedal control on the HST. Kubota used to use the same part and switched to something much closer to Deere's twin touch pedals. The treadle pedals are IMO very awkward to use unless you have a size 19 shoe.
> 
> Engines have never been a weak point on any of the three brands we're talking about here but Kubota has been caught "rounding up" before. :lol: Saw that demo in person!
> 
> Kioti's loaders are a bit light on lift capacity (1150lbs) compared to Deere's 300CX (1600lbs) or the high cap option for Kubota (1800lbs!). Damn website won't give me a current model # and I can't remember it. >:-( All three are easily removed/"parked" with Kioti and Kubota looking to have identical mounting setups. Deere's loaders are ridiculously easy to park and swap front attachments on right out of the box. They have Deere's proprietary quick-connect setup stock but can also be setup with skid-steer attachment carriers which really opens up your attachment/bucket options. One nice feature of Deere's loaders are the pivot pins in every joint. They're cammed into the bushing so they always remain stationary forcing the joint to rotate around them and encouraging proper wear of the pin/bushing. They also have the grease fittings recessed into the ends and that makes lubrication a snap. The fittings are usually clean and never get snapped off from normal loader use. That's a very common problem especially for the ones located on the bucket pivot pin. Also you don't have to reposition the loader to get at the fittings. One-quick walk-around does the trick.
> 
> Deere just plain does attachments better than anyone else. Especially with regard to loaders and backhoes. They fit better, attach easier, and parts are a non-issue in my experience. Most of the other manufacturers sub-out these things or use a universal attachment that is adapted to fit. Sometimes that gets messy.
> 
> Deere also wins the hydraulic test with highest total pump flow. (Deere 13.9 vs Kioti 12.7) but I'm having trouble finding the spec on the _implement_ pumps which are the ones that matter. Most tractors have two pumps now, one for steering and the other one for everything else. When I had access to all the dealer info, it was typical for Deere to have a bigger implement pump than competitive machines with similar total GPM ratings. Therein lies the secret of superior loader/backhoe cycle times! Also would be a consideration if you wanted to run say, a log splitter, off of the tractor hydraulics via a Power Beyond kit.
> 
> To be continued!


 I'm starting to wish that I'd bought a deere.  My kioti ran well until recently. (5 year old now) recently it's been slowing on the hills that I mow which are only a 10 to 12 deg slope.   I checked the Hydraulic fluid and it's full and clean so I'm a bit stumped.  advice is appreciated.  I'm thinking that I should make sure the mower is in good order and maybe I'll take the loader off and mow without it for a bit.

Jims Brain


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## nate379

My Dad has a 23hp Kioti and loves it. Has a cab on it, Fisher snow plow mounted to the bucket arms, snowblower on the 3pt hitch. Also has a weight box, bucket and fork tines.

I have used it along with a few Kubota and John Deere CUTs and I would say in that size range they are all about the same other than price.

He had a Jimna before at that was a steaming pile of doo.  About caught fire twice when the wiring just melted down.  Well the wiring was made from scrapped out wiring from something aparently.  The tins were heavily Bondo'd to make them look decent, torch cut marks all over for the levers and stuff like that!


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## Highbeam

jross47 said:


> I'm starting to wish that I'd bought a deere. My kioti ran well until recently. (5 year old now) recently it's been slowing on the hills that I mow which are only a 10 to 12 deg slope. I checked the Hydraulic fluid and it's full and clean so I'm a bit stumped. advice is appreciated. I'm thinking that I should make sure the mower is in good order and maybe I'll take the loader off and mow without it for a bit.
> 
> Jims Brain


 
What's slowing? The tractor's motion, the engine, or the mower deck? Let's assume it's a HST tractor and what "gear" are you trying to mow in? You need to be working at PTO rpm. Isn't the CK20 a hi-lo machine? Probably can't do much in hi range, that's for transport. Low range should spin the tires before the engine lugs down. Worst case is the forwards pedal is to the floor, engine rpms up, and no forward motion.


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## NH_Wood

My neighbor (older fella - about 72) has a 27 horse (I'm pretty sure) Kioti - about 10 years old now. I've borrowed it lots of time and worked with him lots with it. Great tractor as far as I'm concerned - he's never had a major issue and it still runs real well (he's pretty rough on it).  I'd have no issue with buying one after my experiences with his tractor, but.....that's one tractor. Cheers!


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## Jack Fate

just a couple random thoughts ,

was told "hearsay"  JD under 60 hp are  yanmars then told now any under 90 hp are yanmars  ,my 2320 is a yanmar made in Japan

next Branson tractors ,was told same plant & assembly line as deere

I looked at these, looked good and they do look like JD in RED & much less$$$

they got 35 hp model with loader $15K & finance deal

they don't have the options JD does

Last as I said before You gotta sit on & or operate any contender .The ergonomics of the JD made my sale but different models differ .......your mileage may very ......

The power steering is super & mine is very maneuverable , it will turn SHARP PUT ON A SPIN KNOB what ever you get

My cx 200 loader will lift more than I think it should ,I think I can hurt itself ,You can't beat the hook up

The on ramp belly mower hooks up well but ,to me stinks on mow quality ,the float of the deck is very limited,sorry but my 25 yr old Simplicty kicks its butt

Diesel compact tractors are great & they   don't need to be real big to really work hard

but 25 hp pto min is good to have

best of luck with what ever you decide


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## 711mhw

Jack Fate said:


> just a couple random thoughts ,
> 
> was told "hearsay" JD under 60 hp are yanmars then told now any under 90 hp are yanmars ,my 2320 is a yanmar made in Japan/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My first Yanmar engine was in a Yanmay tractor, imagine that. I now have a 115 hp Yanmar in a big skid steer. Great motors, good company.
Click to expand...


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## MasterMech

Jack Fate said:


> was told "hearsay" JD under 60 hp are yanmars then told now any under 90 hp are yanmars ,my 2320 is a yanmar made in Japan​


 

Deere's old x50 series cuts (650, 750, 850, 950, 1050) were near clones on Yanmar machines with many interchangable parts.

Deere has used Yanmar engines in plenty of it's small tractors since the 80's.  Lawn and Garden stuff all the way up to about 60HP. 

These days the 4x20 CUTs run Deere engines, the 3x20 series and smaller are Yanmar engines.  How close the 2x20 and smaller machines are to actually being Yanmars, I don't know.  What I do know is that ALL of them perform well, and parts will be available for many decades to come.  I have never been given a reason to doubt the quality and longevity of Yanmar engines/machinery so if Deere chooses to have them build some of the smaller tractors, I think they're up to the task.


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## billb3

some kioti and bobcat models used to be made by daedog korea
my JD 2520 is mostly a yanmar with final assembly here in the states
tough to define "final assembly" these days, even "made in" as parts are sourced from all over the world.
Just like cars.
One model Deere could be mostly assembled in Japan, another in India and shipped to US for final assembly. Heck, they could source some from both .
Most of the Deere dealers here are gone so if I was buying a CUT today it likely wouldn't be a Deere - as much as I like mine.
I'd go with what a local dealer ( and one I'd hope would still be around tomorrow) is likely to be able to continue to get parts for and service. ( if needed )
What might make sense in Eastern Oregon likely won't be a great choice in Western Mass.


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## Jack Straw

I didn't read all of the posts but its my understanding that  Shibaura doesn't make New Hollands anymore and that they will be making Kiotis. I know tractor mechanics who say the Shibauras are bullet proof. I would make sure I got a Kioti made by Shibaura.


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## Hobby Farmer

I am leaving my experience with a Kioti 2410 tractor. However, it is not positive. I normally don't live to leave negative feedback about things but Kioti has blown me off with my problems and removed my testimonial from their site as it was not positive. But people need to know all is not a garden of roses. I finally decided to break down and buy a new tractor. Never even owned a tractor and decided to purchase a new one instead of a used headache as we have a small hobby farm and I cant do the things I use to do by hand. I had read all the "positive" reviews about the Kioti brand ( I guess the negative ones were all removed) so that is what I did. I drove over 400 miles RT to purchase this tractor. I even had to buy a dealer demo with 22 hours on it to get one and none of the 4 dealers within a 500 mile radius had any. They made me a good deal so I took it. That was August 2014. It is now December 2015 and I have only put 57 hours on it since purchasing. So it has not been used much at all. I cut my lawn with the belly mower, plow our small garden, and cut one of our little pastures that is not used presently as we are waiting on more sheep. I use a 4' lightweight grass only bushhog. So far, I have had to replace a tire, readjust the front end numerous times, replace 3 hydraulic hoses, replace one of the 3 point hitch center support(my expense again), seatbelt is broken (not replaced yet), replace the ignition switch as the glow plugs stay on constantly, will have to replace the mower belts next month, and replace 2 mower deck wheels (as the snap rings are thin and break) as the wheels fly off to who knows where and all the bushing and washers disappear as well (not covered under warranty). I had to travel 150 miles to get those parts and when I got there, Kioti had sent several wrong parts, missing parts and I was charged a shipping fee from Kioti. Needless to say that cost me an additional $20 in gas and still dont have the parts. The engine is a 3 cylinder and has a hard time running the little bushhog. It bogs down quiet frequently. The front end loader will not pick up nearly the weight it says as the rearend comes off the ground. So to pick up half a bucket of dirt or gravel I have to have to attach the bushhog to the rear to keep it down. It does tend to get in the way. Do not even try to use a 4' rototiller on the pto as it will not work as stated. I purchased one and had to resell. So back to a tiller to fine plow which is one major reason I bought the tractor.  I was told by Kioti that is should have bought a bigger one. Well based on Kubota, John Deere, Mahindra, and kioti, the specs on this tractor would do what I needed for my farm. I don't bale hay, tote hay, plow more than the garden to provide our food, etc. Was bought to move rabbit manure from the barn, cut our yard, keep our orchard free from grass, little plowing, small bushogging and maybe something else small. Barely does that. Plus I have had to make all the repairs as it would cost me a fortune in gas toting this thing back and forth to the shop every time. Have requested the center PTO cover for the mower deck twice as the manual states to use when plowing after removing the mower deck and Kioti has ignored those emails twice.  So you have to jack the tractor up to clean out the PTO shaft after each time you plow. All I got from them about my problems was...."we are sorry you are not happy". I took over $14,000 out of my IRA to buy this tractor as I don't believe in borrowing money anymore as we are debt free but that was a major mistake. I highly recommend a Kubota tractor. I dread in 8 months when this tractor is out of warranty. It will be a money pit as my original dealer gets tired of me calling for parts. So just do a lot of research when buying these smaller tractors. IF you want a large lawn mower then buy the CS2410..otherwise stay away!! If your 2410 works great with no problems....be thankful and good luck!!


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## Sean McGillicuddy

wingsfan said:


> Anyone here have a kioti tractor? If so how does it perform? How easy or hard is it to get parts for if you need them? We have been thinking of getting around a 30 -35hp tractor with a loader and the wife seen an add for a kioti and the price was way lower than a deere od kabota ( which I perfer), but if they hold up and the wife likes them a tractor is a tractor,,,,,,,,,,,,,right?...Just looking for some reviews, all the reviews I have seen so far have been good ones. We will use it to brush hog, moving dirt for the yard and help my back moving variuos items the wife thinks I sould be able to move by myself.(wood, rocks,and other heavy things).




Is Santa bringing you any tractor?


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## Hobby Farmer

Not sure about the 30-35 hp Kioti. If I could get rid of mine I would but the value drops once purchased big time. Kubota to me are the best of the smaller ones. Parts you have to order from a dealer as the warehouse in NC wont deal with you. Whether or not your dealer charges you for shipping is unknown. Once the tractor is out of warranty I will have to do my own repairs as it cost me $70 in gas to take this thing to any Kioti dealer. If not I can take to a local tractor repair shop and they will take all my money as I live in a small town and businesses here love to take all your money. Even your own friends in this town charge you out the ying yang!! So not sure what to do. We have been looking at selling our farm and moving up north in the next 5 years (weather here never gets cold enough anymore and always rains so raising vegetables and livestock is getting old) and if we do I will just throw the tractor in as part of the selling price and then buy a new Kubota once we move. Everyone I know who has a Kubota is happy and several have had them for years and only minor problems. Good luck


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## firefighterjake

I do not discount your experience Hobby Farmer ... but did you join the forum and resurrect a 2 1/2 year old post solely to discuss your experience with Kioti?


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## billb3

maybe it is a Christmas present


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## jaoneill

jross47 said:


> Fellow wood burners:
> 
> I have a Kioti CK20s a tiny 23HP tractor ....so far it's awesome.  It runs my new logsplitter just fine with the in/out plugs in back.  lately I've been having  problem however mowing uphill. I'm gonna troubleshoot today...but as I mow uphill with the warmed up tractor it starts to die on me after 10-20 ft of mowing on a moderate grade of 10deg or so.   This is pissing me off!   I've got 225 hrs on and changed hydraulic fluid at 50 hrs and again I will do it at 400  but something isnot right.  It may be that the mower has a problem but I've been greasing it ev 50hrs.  so that leaves??????.....it's pissing me off.  advice is appreciated.
> 
> Jims Brain


Change your fuel filter and clean the air filter. Loss of power in a diesel is almost always a fuel starvation issue.


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## duramaxman05

I worked a kitoi dealer about 5 years ago. They are pretty decent machines. As far as warranty goes, we had zero problems with getting anything warrantied. A lot of that goes with the dealer. Where i worked, they have an outstanding service department. We had very few problems  with them. I only split 2 of them. One was a 65hp with loader and the clutch went out due to the hydraulic line to the clutch was to too small and when the temps got cold, the fluid moved too slow going back to the resevoir causing the clutch to slip. The other one was a ck35 and had a synchronizer go bad for the shuttle shift. Both under warranty and had no problems getting kioti to stand behind it. Like i said, they do make some nice tractors. The thing is gonna be if you are going to keep it forever and try to move it in a few years. They dont have a good resale value.


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## ErikR

Hobby Farmer, It sounds like you need to pack all the stuff on a trailer and take it to a John Deere dealer and trade it in on a 1 or 2 series tractor. You say you hate to barrow money, but I got 60 month 0% financing from Deere on a new 1025R with a quick disconnect FEL with 53" bucket, a drive over auto connect 54" mower deck, 47" front mount snow blower, a ballast box and an engine block heater. Don't believe the on-line prices on the J-D web site. I had 2 dealers competing against each other to sell me a tractor. I got everything for just about 20% off MSRP. I have over 75 hours on it and couldn't be happier! I changed the hydraulic oil at 50 hours, and engine oil/filter and fuel and air filters just before winter.

I didn't want to barrow either, but paying NO interest to use their money... or.... lose the interest MY money would make if I used my money... No question, use theirs.

FYI, a ballast box on your 3 point hitch would help a lot when trying to use your front end loader..   Good Luck!

Oh, and it works great as a firewood hauler too!


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