# Burning manure?



## kevinmoelk (Dec 7, 2006)

Howdy.  Yes, my question relates to burning manure.  It seems many cultures burn cow patties and other sources of animal manure for fire fuel.  I don't have any cows, but do have 4 large dogs.  I'm wondering if anyone else has tried burning dog poop or any other poop for that matter.  I'm laughing while typing this, but it is a serious question.  

I know that I throw away about a paper trash bag full of poo every week.  Seems like a waste to send that to the landfill if it could be used to burn.


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## coldinnj (Dec 7, 2006)

what a sh*tty fuel.

Ok, enough of those fecal jokes.
Cow manure and dog manure have different properties. Heard of using dried cow manure. Never heard of the same for dog manure though.


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## coldinnj (Dec 7, 2006)

BTW your avatar looks like someone is looking for even more fuel. LOL


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## johnsopi (Dec 7, 2006)

coldinnj said:
			
		

> BTW your avatar looks like someone is looking for even more fuel. LOL



That's funny!


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## Homefire (Dec 7, 2006)

wrenchmonster said:
			
		

> Howdy.  Yes, my question relates to burning manure.  It seems many cultures burn cow patties and other sources of animal manure for fire fuel.  I don't have any cows, but do have 4 large dogs.  I'm wondering if anyone else has tried burning dog poop or any other poop for that matter.  I'm laughing while typing this, but it is a serious question.
> 
> I know that I throw away about a paper trash bag full of poo every week.  Seems like a waste to send that to the landfill if it could be used to burn.



You could try a bucket full of dog poo and report back. Do you have an open
 firepit  or a window you could vent it out . Let us know how it works out for you.
 There are turkey barns about 10 miles from here where you can get turkey poo for
 $15 a yard. Most of the time it is already putting out 3 - 4 hundred degrees, that 
would be a little head start for you in your quest to muck up your stove.


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## nrmahoney@cox.net (Dec 7, 2006)

In Tibet a common source of blindness in children comes from the burning of Yak Dung in open fires for warmth.


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## Roospike (Dec 7, 2006)

coldinnj said:
			
		

> BTW your avatar looks like someone is looking for even more fuel. LOL




*lol* Well i guess we should of known this thread/question was coming.


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## Roospike (Dec 7, 2006)

wrenchmonster said:
			
		

> Howdy.  Yes, my question relates to burning manure.  It seems many cultures burn cow patties and other sources of animal manure for fire fuel.  I don't have any cows, but do have 4 large dogs.  I'm wondering if anyone else has tried burning dog poop or any other poop for that matter.  I'm laughing while typing this, but it is a serious question.
> 
> I know that I throw away about a paper trash bag full of poo every week.  Seems like a waste to send that to the landfill if it could be used to burn.



Buddy , leave the chit in the brown paper bag and i will send you a 16" Oak split to make up the difference.   :-/


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## stangds (Dec 7, 2006)

Dog crap has some nasty pathogens in it.  I've considered doing this myself, i wouldn't try to burn them unless the fire was raging, and I could toss in a bag and slam the door behind it.  not sure if you want the nasties floating around in your house....


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## DeanBrown3D (Dec 7, 2006)

Approximately how long does a decent size dog poo take to season properly?


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## kevinmoelk (Dec 7, 2006)

I knew this thread would draw some funny remarks.  Okay, so dog poo a resounding NO.  Still, what about cow manure?  

Never heard of anyone going blind by fire, that's a new one.

-Kevin


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## elkimmeg (Dec 7, 2006)

I wonder what it would smell like, remember it has to be seasoned . I think he has discovered a way to keep solisitors from knocking at his door.
 I'm trying real hard not to laugh too loud thinking about coments I could make. but this is a chitty situation and I think the effort is full off crap
 Is your stove listed to burn this chit. And my wife thought cleaning ashes was messy.  Hey honey don't go in the garage for the next 9 months the buckets of dog chit have not dried yet
 And I thought cresote smell was bad in the summer


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## kevinmoelk (Dec 7, 2006)

Don't hold back on my account Elk... I can take it.  Let's hear 'em!

Still looking for blindness related to the burning of Yak manure in Tibet on google.  No evidence yet.  I forget who posted, but let's see a link.

-Kevin


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## tw40x81 (Dec 7, 2006)

From http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1314944

In Tibet, an area with one of the highest prevalences of cataract, a lack of vitamin A is compounded by exposure to high-altitude ultraviolet (UV) light, soot and pathogens from indoor burning of coal and yak dung, and a dusty, windy environment. As a result, 10.9% of the total Tibetan population suffers visual impairment.


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## Eric Johnson (Dec 7, 2006)

Any residual "mositure" is going to give your cat, if you have one, thermal shock.

Burning any of that stuff really stinks, especially the kind that gets squeezed out by carnivores. You might do it once, but I doubt you'll make the same mistake twice.

I've found over the years that while you can burn all kinds of interesting things in a wood stove, burning anything other than dry firewood is a mistake.

I know that Dylan burns cardboard, but it seems to me that would be more trouble than it's worth.

Bury that dog squeeze along with all your kitchen scraps and wood ashes in the ground, and you'll be improving the soil. Just not in a garden because of the pathogens from the dogs.


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## quads (Dec 7, 2006)

wrenchmonster said:
			
		

> Still, what about cow manure?


We got lots of it, but have never tried burning it.  Don't think I will either.  Cow manure=fertilizer, firewood=firewood!  Seems like Laura Ingalls burned buffalo poop on the prairie, didn't she?  Didn't her sister go blind?  Hmmm, maybe a connection?


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## elkimmeg (Dec 7, 2006)

God that smell is killing me I thought you said it was seasoned.  Got a better idea much cleaner too, burn the dog food

  Dont mind him he burns all kinds of chit. When you start the fire would you use chit on a stick

 Craig this thread is going down the crapper quickly   but at least it could be funny.

 Damn honey you just ruined  our heat supply watch where you are stepping


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## BrotherBart (Dec 7, 2006)

nrmahoney@cox.net said:
			
		

> In Tibet a common source of blindness in children comes from the burning of Yak Dung in open fires for warmth.



Darn. Something else that is fun that makes you go blind.


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## Andre B. (Dec 7, 2006)

An almost infinitely better way of heating with "crap" is to put it in a digester and burn the resulting methane for heat, or better yet burn it in a engine spinning a generator to offset some grid electricity and use the waste heat from the engine.  That has to do with the concept of the quality of a given amount of energy, a very large mass of water that is at a temperature 1°F hotter then your house may have the same number of BTUs that a small mass of water at 120°F hotter then your house.  But the smaller mass of water will provide a lot more useful heat.

Then you still have the liquids and remaining solids from the digester for use as fertilizer on the garden.
________________
Andre' B.


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## kevinmoelk (Dec 7, 2006)

Eric Johnson said:
			
		

> Bury that dog squeeze along with all your kitchen scraps and wood ashes in the ground, and you'll be improving the soil. Just not in a garden because of the pathogens from the dogs.



Noooo.  Would never do that.  I live on a well and fecal contamination is a concern.  I would never leave the dog poo out too long and certainly not bury it.  Leaving it on the grass just kills the grass.  Kitchen scraps and wood ashes... okay, I'll put them in the ground.

Methane production has great potential and another good saleable product for dairy farmers.  I'd love to see more of it.  

Blindness?  Okay, but there seems to be many other pieces of the puzzle beyond just burning manure.  

I'm not defending or promoting manure burning, lol... just trying learn and keep the forum lively.  

-Kevin


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## Eric Johnson (Dec 7, 2006)

Can you run carnivore chit through a digester, Andre? Would the residual material be safe to use in the garden, or would you want to age it to kill off the bugs?


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## elkimmeg (Dec 7, 2006)

Imagine sitting around a wood stove convention so what are your tools of the trade a chain saw maul PE wedges 
 what do you use a super pooper scooper and how do you stack it  does it need to be split or covered. are flies a problem
 In Franklin Ma  maybe your neighbor  would not be stealing you chit.. 

Honey pull over pull over did you see that road apple.Nothing like a trip to the park and transporting a fresh bucked of dog chit
 Damn honey I hope you don't mind but the bucket tipped over in the car but don't worry I scraped most of  it back up. 
 The best part no one will be bumming ride from you anymore Might reduce the trade in value   This gives a new meaning to owning an old chiter to drive around


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## kevinmoelk (Dec 7, 2006)

Hey Look!

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=1813414&page=1


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## BrotherBart (Dec 7, 2006)

elkimmeg said:
			
		

> Imagine sitting around a wood stove convention so what are your tools of the trade a chain saw maul PE wedges
> what do you use a super pooper scooper and how do you stack it  does it need to be split or covered. are flies a problem
> In Franklin Ma  maybe your neighbor  would not be stealing you chit..
> 
> ...



Hilarious Elk.


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## BrotherBart (Dec 7, 2006)

If you have any neighbors that are Viet Nam vets I would advise against burning poop. Liable to set off major flashbacks. The method of poop disposal for the American troops there was tossing diesel in with it and burning it. And ya smelled it 24/7/365.


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## MrGriz (Dec 7, 2006)

Burning it is one thing.  Splitting and stacking it is another  :sick:   All I need is another sh!t job to do around here.


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## Andre B. (Dec 7, 2006)

Eric Johnson said:
			
		

> Can you run carnivore chit through a digester, Andre? Would the residual material be safe to use in the garden, or would you want to age it to kill off the bugs?



As far as I know it can.  Most of the sources seem to say that while a little aging may not be needed because most of the bugs should be killed in the digester, it may be a good idea in case you get some contamination direct from your source material, either thru or around the digester.

Have not got a lot of personal experience with it, made a very small one time, and got some burnable gas and have been meaning to build a larger one to feed a hot water heater and/or cook stove but summer never seems long enough. 
_____________
Andre' B.


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## Martin Strand III (Dec 7, 2006)

The Plains Indians (aka Native Americans) did burn dry buffalo chips to help warm their tee-pees.  

Since we now have wood stoves, and such, which I have to think is tremendously better than an open inside fire burning animal dung, why on Earth would anyone want to digres back to such primative conditions?

But since you brought up the topic of 'chit', here's some religious views on the subject:

______________________________________
RELIGIOUS VIEWS WHEN 'CHIT' HAPPENS

Catholicism:  If chit happens, I deserve it.

Protestantism:  Chit won't happen if I work harder.

Judaism:  Why does chit always happen to me?

Buddhism:  When chit happens, is it really chit?

Islam:  If chit happens, take a hostage.

Hinduism:  This chit has happened before.

Hare Krishna:  Chit happens Rama Lama Ding Dong.

Rastafarianism:  Let's smoke this chit.
_____________________________________

And now you can try to burn the chit...  Good luck.

Aye,
Marty


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## Andre B. (Dec 7, 2006)

wrenchmonster said:
			
		

> Eric Johnson said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have a well and dogs and could clean the crap out of the yard, I do near the house but I just toss it where I am not going to be walking on it.

But what about the cows, horses, goats, ducks, deer, squirrels, skunks, raccoons, rabbits, fox, turkeys, bears, and every other animal that takes a dump in or near my yard.

I am thinking this is a non problem and that unless you have a very shallow well, by the time anything from the dog crap gets leached into the well the bacteria in the soil along the way will have taken care of it.
Whatever don't kill ya. 
______________
Andre' B.


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## Hokerer (Dec 7, 2006)

elkimmeg said:
			
		

> Imagine sitting around a wood stove convention so what are your tools of the trade a chain saw maul PE wedges
> what do you use a super pooper scooper and how do you stack it  does it need to be split or covered. are flies a problem
> In Franklin Ma  maybe your neighbor  would not be stealing you chit..
> 
> ...



Gives new meaning to one of the guys standing up and saying "just a minute, let me go put another log on the fire"


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## Martin Strand III (Dec 7, 2006)

This is really bringing out the anal retentive personalities!

Carpe TP.

Aye,
Marty


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## kevinmoelk (Dec 7, 2006)

Andre B. said:
			
		

> wrenchmonster said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Oh, I hear you.  It's not that an aquifer is so localized to make that much of a difference anyway... but then again, why add fuel to the fire?  I live in a heavy agriculture area and I'm sure the pesticides the orchard owners use over thousands of acres are much more a cause for concern than my dog poo.  Then again, is there any water in the US that is not contaminated in some way?  

I'm just trying to do my part and be a responsible citizen of the earth.  Same thing with recycling and re-using materials, saving scraps, etc.  I'm all for it.


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## smirnov3 (Dec 7, 2006)

Uhm, if you are going to burn cow poo, you have to 'process' it. 

The usual meathod is to collect a patty, mix with straw, and stick to the walls of your hut to dry.

I kid you not

(what I recall from my 10th grade world cultures / history class - it made a big impression on my little sub-urban mind)


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## kevinmoelk (Dec 7, 2006)

Marty S said:
			
		

> Since we now have wood stoves, and such, which I have to think is tremendously better than an open inside fire burning animal dung, why on Earth would anyone want to digres back to such primative conditions?
> 
> Aye,
> Marty



Well just because an idea is old doesn't mean it's bad.  Maybe the idea has come full circle.  That's like saying a sod, strawbale, or adobe home is a terrible idea, ancient technology and since we have modern building methods we should abandon these building techniques.  Yet these same ancient construction techniques have now realized a great re-birth due to their beauty, simplicity and energy effectiveness. 

Let's burn some dung!  I don't have the wood stove set up yet, but someone has to try it since there has been so much discussion now.  Any takers?

-Kevin


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## kevinmoelk (Dec 7, 2006)

Anton Smirnov said:
			
		

> Uhm, if you are going to burn cow poo, you have to 'process' it.
> 
> The usual meathod is to collect a patty, mix with straw, and stick to the walls of your hut to dry.
> 
> ...



I think that is a misunderstood anthropologist working.  As far as I know it does not have to be processed, beyond drying.  What you describe sounds like home construction for pre-plaster.  Some folks in the US have used manure to cover cob and strawbale prior to the final plaster coat.


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## Martin Strand III (Dec 7, 2006)

[/quote]

Well just because an idea is old doesn't mean it's bad.  Maybe the idea has come full circle.  
Let's burn some dung!  I don't have the wood stove set up yet, but someone has to try it since there has been so much discussion now.  Any takers?

-Kevin[/quote]

Kevin:

You are correct.  There are 'some' good old ideas.  

The key to progress is to pick (out the bad ones) and choose (to keep the good ones) wisely.

Some learn by other methods.  This idea of yours seems like one of these.

Enjoy!

Aye,
Marty


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## drizler (Dec 7, 2006)

I fertizize my yard with horse turds.  Daughter lets em in and they crap all over and I hit it with the 5' mower deck and spread it.  Nature at work.    Maby I get desperate enough I might have to resort to it but NOT TODAY.


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## elkimmeg (Dec 8, 2006)

wrenchmonster I want to thank you for a light hearted post ,where we could have some fun with and not offend anyone 
 we needed that. chit happens


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## kevinmoelk (Dec 8, 2006)

Thanks Elk.  

I'm always trying to keep people talking and encourage the lurkers to come out a little more.  

By the way, I almost fell out of my seat reading your "road apple" comment. 

-Kevin


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## Gooserider (Dec 8, 2006)

I have never burned any kind of chit in the woodstove (unless one counts the quality of some of my wood...) but I have had other occasions to burn it.

Among other things, I am a beekeeper, and have to use a smoker when working on my hives.  For the non-beekeepers, a bee smoker is basically a can with a bellows attached.  Squeeze the bellows, get a puff of smoke.  The objective is almost the opposite of a woodstove, as you want as cool and smoky a fire as possible.  Indeed the typical approach is to make a fire in the bottom of the smoker, then put a big wad of wet grass (the lawn type, not the good stuff...) on top to act as a cooler and filter so that you don't blow out any burning bits.  Getting a smoker going is a bit of a pain, I find it often takes me longer to get the smoker going, and get the PPE gear on than it does to do the actual work on the hive.

My bee supply lady also raises llama's, and will give anyone chit that asks for it as she has a neverending supply to get rid of.  Llamadoo looks sort of like deer droppings or exra large rabit pellets, and makes great fertilizer.  I got some to use in the garden, but since I'd always found it a pain to get the smoker going, I've been experimenting with different fuels.  I remembered all the stories about Little House on the Prairie, etc.  (BTW, IIRC Laura Ingall's sister was born blind, wouldn't have anything to do with burning cow chips)  with the burning cow patties, and thought I'd see how llamadoo would work as a fuel.

Answer is, it needs to be dried well, but does make a nice fuel for a smoker.  It is fairly easy to get going, and burns for a long time (important, you don't want the smoker going out in the middle of working a hive!).  The small form factor is easy to get into the smoker body, and it makes lots of smoke (which doesn't smell bad) that keeps the bees mellow.  What more can one ask?

I also mix in some of the chips from processing my wood. as that seems to give a more consistent burn.

 Gooserider


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## quads (Dec 8, 2006)

But does the honey still taste sweet?  Ha ha!


			
				Gooserider said:
			
		

> I have never burned any kind of chit in the woodstove (unless one counts the quality of some of my wood...) but I have had other occasions to burn it.
> 
> Among other things, I am a beekeeper, and have to use a smoker when working on my hives.  For the non-beekeepers, a bee smoker is basically a can with a bellows attached.  Squeeze the bellows, get a puff of smoke.  The objective is almost the opposite of a woodstove, as you want as cool and smoky a fire as possible.  Indeed the typical approach is to make a fire in the bottom of the smoker, then put a big wad of wet grass (the lawn type, not the good stuff...) on top to act as a cooler and filter so that you don't blow out any burning bits.  Getting a smoker going is a bit of a pain, I find it often takes me longer to get the smoker going, and get the PPE gear on than it does to do the actual work on the hive.
> 
> ...


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## HarryBack (Dec 8, 2006)

nrmahoney@cox.net said:
			
		

> In Tibet a common source of blindness in children comes from the burning of Yak Dung in open fires for warmth.




wow- this brings back memories of my childhood...cant quite recall, but seem to remember my mother telling me something like...."if you keep doing that, you'll go blind...."......now I finally understand it! My mom and dad must have been burning YAK DUNG!


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## elkimmeg (Dec 8, 2006)

I was doing an inspection and the car in front of me had a bumper sticker stating I stop for quilts 

 I wonder what other drivers would think, if the bumper sticker proclaimed, I stop for chit. 

 Hey BB I can't be the only one having fun with this post


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## Gooserider (Dec 8, 2006)

quads said:
			
		

> But does the honey still taste sweet?  Ha ha!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yup, especially after I 'improve' it with a bit of water, some yeast, and maybe a few other interesting ingredients, and a bit of time...  If we have an appropriate gathering of the N.E. gang, I can bring something much better than beer for evaluation :coolsmile: 

In actual practice, the amount of smoke used isn't that great, and you mostly don't direct it into the combs, plus anything ready for harvest is already sealed away.  Mostly the smoke is used as a pacifier, indeed you can cause problems by using to much smoke.  The idea is to give them a few puffs when you come up to the hive and start opening it up.  Bees are very scent oriented, and the smoke confuses their alarm signalling scent.  It also tells them that they may need to evacuate in a hurry to avoid what their instincts tell them is a forest fire.  The response is to go into the hive and gorge on all the uncapped nectar (which they will return later when the fuss dies down...) which keeps them busy and distends their abdomens making it harder for them to get the flex they need to sting...  While you are working the hive, you keep an eye on the top bars of the exposed super, as the smoke dissipates you start seeing hundreds of beady eyes starting to poke up as they check to see if the coast is clear and wonder what happenned to the missing roof.  hh:  At that point you give them another puff or two which sends them back downstairs for another couple of minutes.

Bees are fascinating critters, and keeping them is a far more vital activity than most people realize.  For such a critical part of agriculture, it is amazing how much of our pollination is done by "backyard" beekeepers like myself.  There are also far more beekeepers around than most people realize, especially in suburban and urban areas.  Because there are so many folks with really irrational bee phobias running around, it is easier for most beekeepers to operate in a low profile 'stealth mode'.  At the same time, it is possibly one of the easiest forms of "animal husbandry" to engage in, and one of the few that folks in crowded areas can do.  (I know of several beekeepers in Metro Boston / Cambridge / Somerville that run hives from the roofs or balconies of their condos and apartments!)  They also aren't all that much work.  I go into my hives once or twice a month for about 10-20 minutes at a time from March to October.  I also have 4-6 hours of work when I do my honey harvest once or twice a year, so I would say I spend probably about 24/hr's a year on my bees, and get 5-10 GALLONS of honey per hive in exchange.

Gooserider


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## adrpga498 (Dec 8, 2006)

This would be very difficult to convince the Mrs. that I'm going out "scrounging for Chit"


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## BrotherBart (Dec 8, 2006)

New and Improved! The Ronco Stool Master Log Machine in now available only by calling this number 1 800 DOG-CRAP. Operators are standing by.

And in addition if you call in the next fifteen minutes you will receive, absolutely free, this high capacity stainless steel pooper scooper for your solid fuel scrounging.

Another fine hearth product from the mind of Ron Popiel.


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## elkimmeg (Dec 9, 2006)

clap clap drum roll clap clap 

  BB Priceless

wrenchmonster  thought road apples was funny
 That' going to be tough to top


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## MountainStoveGuy (Dec 9, 2006)

if you burn dog poop maybe you should start saving your own, just incase you get into a "pinch"


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## coldinnj (Dec 9, 2006)

OLD ideas?????
Some of them are rediculous, Example:
In the 1700's if someone had whooping cough, the local apothacary would supply them with centipede tea!
What a rediculous idea!
Of course with modern medicine we know better...
Today we would prescribe some different forms of synthetic medicine that is approved...
Which is comprised of basically a synthetic form of ... centipede tea.  Yep we stioll don't have anything better, just easier ways to come by it.
Old ideas are not bad ideas. They are the foundation and often the best answer for most of todays problems.
Many times we change the old methods to newer, better  methods. Until with more research we find the new ways are worse for many reasons then the old.
Remembe   "KISS"
Keep
It
Simple
Stupid
...Not my quote
Ever hear " He's got Sh*t to burn"
Hmmm, 
looks like sh*t
smells like sh*t
burns like sh*t
tastes like < we won't go there


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## Gooserider (Dec 9, 2006)

coldinnj said:
			
		

> OLD ideas?????
> 
> Hmmm,
> looks like sh*t
> ...



The variant I've heard goes through the above list, and concludes with "sure glad I didn't step in it..."

And then there is the old college definitions - 

A. (lot of) S. (h*t)
B. (ull) S. (h*t)
M. (ore) S. (h*t)
P (iled) h. (igher and) D.(eeper)

However, chit does have one advantage as fuel.  You only need a limited supply because it can be infinitely reburned,  which is something most folks know as "Different day, same old chit"  - isn't that better than having to come up with new wood every day?

Gooserider


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## stovepipe? (Dec 9, 2006)

Anton Smirnov said:
			
		

> Uhm, if you are going to burn cow poo, you have to 'process' it.
> 
> The usual meathod is to collect a patty, mix with straw, and stick to the walls of your hut to dry.
> 
> ...



this is correct.  I've been to many places where the primary/only fuel is dung.  warmed my hands by many such a fire.  And there's no denying it, sh*t smells, no matter how you handle it.  You've got to 1) collect it, 2) mix with straw or similar to bond it together, 3) flatten it out in the sun to dry 4) collect the now dry and dusty faggots and pile them up in your kitchen-bedroom-living room hut (or yurt) and feed them to the fire.  They smell very foul when burning-- it is a totally distinctive smell, one you only encounter in poor counties, but its the same smell in all of them.  

there's a reason wealthy nations like ours burn trillions of gallons of oil-- we don't like getting sh*t on our hands.


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## JMF1 (Dec 9, 2006)

Boy, I shutter at the thought of all the cords of "lawn sausages" I've gotten rid of over the years! Would they still be measured in "cords" as wood is??


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