# What kind of LP heater?



## strangemainer (Feb 9, 2009)

Hey there!

I am looking for a heat source for the finished side of my partially finished basement.
It is around 800 sq ft or so.

Probably wont use it 24/7, just when were down there and during cold snaps.
Thanks for the help!


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## DAKSY (Feb 9, 2009)

Take a look at the Jotul GF600 Firelight, the Regency U39, or the Heartstone Sterling.
Depends on how much insulation you've got in your basement walls.
Your climate is similar to ours & here we use the 30/40/50 rule (OUTPUT)...
30 BTUs/sq ft for well insulated...40 for average... & 50 for poorly insulated
If it's minimally insulated I'd say any one of these should fit the bill..
If you've got it well insulated, you can downsize somewhat...


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## strangemainer (Feb 11, 2009)

Ive decided to go  with a ventfree blue flame. My question now is do I purchase my own tank and 
have it filled myself...or use the one the propane co will bring. 

Anyone have any advise?

 Ive heard I can bring a 100 pounder myself to get filled.
The propane co. said they cannot fill a tank that size, but Im concerned I will not use enough gas to warrant 
a larger tank. I think there is a fee if you dont use alot.


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## KeithO (Feb 15, 2009)

Below is the chemical formula for combustion of propane where sufficient oxygen is available.

C3H8 + 5 O2 → 3 CO2 + 4 H2O + heat

So take note that you get 4 parts water for every 3 parts CO2 and all of that is dumped into your home.   It is not safe and exposure to high levels of CO2 can cause brain damage, if it is not high enough to kill you outright.    These kinds of heaters should only be used in emergencies and then with an accurate instrument to measure CO2 in real time, so you know when to turn it off or provide additional ventilation.  The water likes to condense on cold basement walls resulting in toxic mold that can kill you too.

I have heard of people using ventless propane heaters to heat vacation homes, who found their home infested with mold after the first unattended winter.

Friends don't let friends burn ventless heaters.


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## KeithO (Feb 15, 2009)

on propane cylinders:  1lb of propane contains about 21.5k btus.  So a 100 lb tank contains about 2.15Mbtu.   If you know the consumption of the heater, it is easy enough to work out how many hours it will run.  I think heating any reasonable space with propane will be a drag and you tend to be stung real bad on the refilling cost with regular cylinders.   There are smaller propane tanks (they look like fat squat cylinders) that are probably 250lb in capacity that I have seen in RV parks where people stay year round.  But they are owned by one of the propane companies and rented on a contract basis.  I think the rule is that the bigger the tank, the higher the tank rental and the higher the "minimum" annual consumption before you start paying penalties.


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## DAKSY (Feb 15, 2009)

on propane cylinders:  1lb of propane contains about 21.5k btus. 

My math says 21.8 (91,600/4.2), but what's .3 BTU between hearth heads!

So a 100 lb tank contains about 2.15Mbtu.

But they will only put about 80 lbs in a 100 lb tank around here...or about 19 gallons...so 91,600x19 =1.74mbtu

If you know the consumption of the heater, it is easy enough to work out how many hours it will run.  I think heating any reasonable space with propane will be a drag and you tend to be stung real bad on the refilling cost with regular cylinders.   There are smaller propane tanks (they look like fat squat cylinders) that are probably 250lb in capacity that I have seen in RV parks where people stay year round.  But they are owned by one of the propane companies and rented on a contract basis.  I think the rule is that the bigger the tank, the higher the tank rental and the higher the "minimum" annual consumption before you start paying penalties

We actually have a maintenance fee calculated into the price per gallon around here...
Not sure what the rate is, because it varies...
If you heat with LP, you pay a lower price than if you cook with it or use it solely for hotwater... 
You can get  the fuel cheaply, if you own your tank(s), but there are no guarantees...
One of my buds bought a tank & found it had a leak in a welded seam...
He blamed the vendor & the vendor blamed the shipper & he lost his $$$, because it couldn't be resolved...
All after he buried the tank...
He was able to get the leak repaired & re-pressure tested, but that cost him even MORE $$$...


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## Highbeam (Feb 15, 2009)

Daksy and all,

I was under the impression that a 100 gallon tank is actually physically big enough to hold more than 100 lbs but that the 80% fill rule is already part of the calculation so that even filled to only 80% you still get 100# out of a 100# tank.

I'm with Keith on the ventless. It is foolish to burn large amounts of petroleum in a residence without venting the exhaust. I don't care how good the oxygen depletion sensor is. N

He posted the reaction for perfect combustion of petroleum which will NOT happen in the stove, that's why they are only rated at 99% efficient. Incomplete combustion will always occur and will introduce CO which is a poison that accumulates in your bloodstream. Not only does the CO2 build up, but so does the CO, while dumping water into the home, and while conuming all the oxygen. Ever seen total recall? Lack of oxygen makes you have three "you know whats" on her chest. I know I know, not really but why chance it?


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## rowerwet (Feb 15, 2009)

Check out a floor furnace, it is a vented gas heater, it doesn't use any electricity, has a thermostat powered by a thermocouple that sticks into the flame from the pilot light. You could easily turn it off and even the pilot light off when you weren't going to use it, it lights with an ignitor like a barbecue grill. My dad has heated his vacation home on york beach since '95 with one of these as its primary heat source for the insurance co. and the bank. 
   Installing it in a basement may be harder, as it is intended to sit below the floor and has a grate that you can walk on( the perfect place to warm up after being outside)


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## stoveguy13 (Feb 15, 2009)

100# is sized to hold about a 100# its a 120 tank filled 80% to take in expansion of gases


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## Highbeam (Feb 15, 2009)

stoveguy13 said:
			
		

> 100# is sized to hold about a 100# its a 120 tank filled 80% to take in expansion of gases



Exactly what I thought.


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## Inside Guy (Feb 19, 2009)

strangemainer said:
			
		

> Hey there!
> 
> I am looking for a heat source for the finished side of my partially finished basement.
> It is around 800 sq ft or so.
> ...


Please do your research before buying an invented gas fireplace.  Research "gas direct vent".  They are more expensive, but the also don't exhaust into your home.  Yes, vent free fireplaces exhaust into your home


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