# Looking for advice on the purchase of a compact diesel Tractor



## Jack Straw (Apr 12, 2010)

I am saving up for a new or nearly new compact, 4x4, diesel tractor with a bucket. I would like to get one around 30 horse. Would like to:

1) Use it in the woods to get firewood.
2) Be able to move stone and possibly have a york rake to repair my driveway (800' long).
3) Move snow piles that get quite large when we really get dumped on.
4) Have a 5' bush to mow my fields. (just a few acres (5?))
5) Possibly put a front or rear mounted snow blower on it (not likely)

I am only interested in the major Brand names (ie JD, Kubota, New Holland). This is a once in a lifetime purchase and I want to do it right. I would rather spend a few extra bucks and get exactly what I want. Any suggestions what to look for or get?

Thank You


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## begreen (Apr 12, 2010)

I went through a similar exercise recently. The Kubota L2800 rose to the top of the list for me. Stop by this site for a great forum and lots of answers:

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/


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## flyingcow (Apr 12, 2010)

Go to www.tractorbynet.com   Good site.


Where are you located? Might help with input. For the most part, i think the major brand are very comparable. Look for a dealer you would feel good about? I've found some good prices for tractors, economy being what it is. If you have a dealer with a good rep, maybe look for a slightly used tractor of same brand? Be nice to buy brand new, but some of the slightly used stuff will be a better deal.


www.tractorhouse.com is a good site to kill a few hours looking and learning pricing. Might stumble across some deals. I looked at the dealers in my state, mainly by computer and found a great deal. They had this tractor on consignment from a customer. 1yr old, 300hrs. Had to liquidate his assets quickly.


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## Jack Straw (Apr 12, 2010)

My land has heavy wet clay soil. I am thinking about getting the r4 industrial type tires. Any comments?


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## flyingcow (Apr 12, 2010)

Less impact on the lawn. My R-1's are a little rough on the lawn in the spring of the year. But the unit i have is pushing 9,000lbs. The R-4's should be a good option, a little less traction, but if you might have to chain up in the winter. Just rear chains, but they help a lot when pushing snow or snow blowing.


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## Hunderliggur (Apr 12, 2010)

I have the Bobcat Toolcat 5600 with a collection of attachments - 60" bush hog, stump grinder, chipper, bucket, forks. post hole digger.  The two person cab is helpful with my kids as assistants.  It can take almost any Bobcat attachment.  Unit is not cheap and hard to come by in the used market, but with construction activity so low you may find one at auction or for sale.


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## SolarAndWood (Apr 12, 2010)

R4s are less than desirable in the woods especially when skidding logs.  Are you mowing lawn as well?  Seems the ideal is two sets of wheels with R1s and turfs.  My 30 yo 4wd 32 hp 2 ton Ford runs a 4' rototiller, sub soiler, 6' brush hog, 6' box blade, 8' rake, skids logs, loads stone and pushes snow without chains unless its on ice.  My similar vintage 2wd 25 hp 1 ton Kubota didn't do much more than mow lawn.


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## Highbeam (Apr 13, 2010)

I like the R4s that I have. They are tougher and hold up well to scrapes and rubs on the sides. My woodlot has clay soils and when that clay gets wet, you know the kind of wet where it sticks to your shoes like dog poo, the tires can load up and not offer much traction. Still plenty of traction to operate with 4wd but I am sure the R1s would give better traction for that. I wanted the heavy duty ness of the industrial tires. 

I have a Kioti CK30 in my avatar photo. I've put 867 hours on it and it has been great. Lots of mowing and grading work with a box blade. No snow experience though. 

I trailer it a lot and it weighs 4500 lbs with one implement on the rear. In my sig line you can see pics of it running my crazy log splitter.


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## JeffRey30747 (Apr 13, 2010)

I'll throw my $0.02 in for what it's worth. I think you will be better served by sticking to one of the big 3 as your post indicates. You will pay a little more, but parts support is better now and should be for years down the road (that's when you will need it). Try to find a dealer that carries more than one of the brands you are interested in. I was able to look at JD & Kubota side by side at one dealer and Kubota & NH together at another. It really helped my decision making process. Used units may save you a little but they were scarce and were almost as much as new when I was shopping (2003). 
I'm not sure about the current Kubota lineup but in years past, 30 HP puts you right at the top of the B series and the bottom of the L series. Which way you go will depend on your needs. A larger, heavier tractor allows you to do more at one time but a smaller lighter unit allows you to tread lightly in fragile areas and manuever in tighter areas but you may have to tackle some of your projects in smaller bites to get the job done. I went larger & heavier to the 37hp Kubota at the time as it was the smallest tractor that would accept the LA682 loader, quite a step up from the LA482. I still have a small tractor, though. It is a early 80's vintage Yanmar YM186D that is one of the few Yanmars that you will see that isn't a grey market import. No loader but still a handy little machine
As you have indicated that you want a loader, think long and hard before you consider an aftermarket loader. I almost bought one and am now of the belief that the factory loaders are well worth the extra cost versus the two or three sizes fits all approach. The FEL is by far the most useful attachment that you can get with your tractor.


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## jebatty (Apr 13, 2010)

Kubota L3400 was my choice, delivered by the dealer free of charge in April 2004. Has been absolutely trouble free, now at 300 hours. All maintenance by myself: engine and transmission oil/filter changes, and greasing. The L3400 has the standard transmission, hi and low range, 8 total speeds.

Reason for the choice: a small but very powerful tractor that easily gets around in the woods and other tight spaces. Very satisfied.

If I was doing it over again, I might consider a little larger tractor to get more lift capacity. I move logs, and a 12' log of 24" or so diameter starts to push this tractor to the limit, as well as some 8' logs of 36" or so diameter. Also, a full bucket of wet dirt/sand may exceed the lift capacity. 

Advantages: too many to list. I use the pallet forks most, picking up logs and whatever.

Disadvantages: light on the rear end, reason for the added weight mentioned below. Can't pick up too much weight on the front w/o added rear weight. Maximum lift capacity about 1000 lbs.

Summary: Kubota is an excellent tractor; nothing has happened that would discourage me from buying Kubota again. Total investment, tractor and all accessories was about $20,000.

Accessories:
LA463 front loader -- very heavy duty
Industrial tires -- easier on the turf than tractor tires, better traction than turf tire
Roll bar (standard)
ATI universal quik tach on the loader -- takes all Bobcat-type quik tach implements -- fast and easy switching of front end implements
Extra double acting remote hydraulic for accessories
500 lbs +/- weight (barrel filled with rocks and cement) for the 3-point to provide extra rear weight
3-point lift platform
36" Pallet forks
60" Bucket
6' rear pto brush mower
6' wheeled box loader for rear
5' front mount brush rake/rock picker with hydraulic clamp
2-bottom plow (very old, John Deere)
12' wheeled hydraulic disc (also very old)
15,000 watt pto generator


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## webie (Apr 13, 2010)

Well here is my input  I had a kubota from 1981 to 2001 now I have a deere . Both have been great tractors but the 2 were very different . The kubota was gear drive and r1 tires  4 wheel drive  with a loader . It was a tuff little tractor and great in the woods except for the R1's . Problem with my land is it is 100% black loam ,very soft all the time and like quick sand when wet . If you turned the r1's over at all I think it dropped a foot a revolution of the tire so you had to be carefull with wheel spin . The other thing for me going to R4's is I could get a wider tire . I also like the hydrostatic for several reasons . It  cant be beat for loader work and I really like it for skidding logs but it does use a bunch of extra power .
 I also have a full cab on the deere now  my deere is a 3400 -32hp


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## Highbeam (Apr 13, 2010)

Good point, the industrial tires are about always much wider that the ags so the tread will wear longer and less likely to sink since it has lower psi ground pressure. 

I have and love HST which is now available in even the economy tractors from the big makers. Modern HST machines lose very very little power to the HST transmission. You are hugely rewarded my excellent maneuverability, Slow creep speeds, and you can focus on driving and not on gear shifting. You don't ever use the clutch except when starting the engine and when engaging the PTO, great for old knees. Forward and reverse can be done while looking over your shoulder, you simply move your foot from forward to reverse. I have plowed, subsoiled, disced, and rototilled with my HST machine with no heat issues or lack of power issues. I think that there is a myth floating about that ground engaging work must be done with a geared machine. When was the last time you ran a bulldozer? They are all hydrostatic now. 

I like shifting gears in a car/truck/motorcycle, that's part of driving. When working I have a job to do and the HST makes the job MUCH easier and more efficient. Your mind can focus on the work.


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## JeffRey30747 (Apr 14, 2010)

A few more things have crossed my mind.
Hydrostat - My L3710 is a gear machine but I would probably recommend HST to anyone considering a new compact especially if you have the "older knees" that Highbeam mentions. One caveat is that you will have to change out fluids with SuperUDT or an equivalent or the machine's warmup time will suffer in colder weather. I have been running Chevron's AW THF in my gear machine so I don't consider that a big deal.
3 pt control - Some low end machines have up/down controls instead of true position control. If you are running a bush hog type mower, no real problem but with something like a box scrape, lack of true position control can be rather frustrating.
FEL quick attach - This is the main thing that my Kubota doesn't have that I would really like to have. I know it can be retrofitted but it would require both the quick attach and a compatible bucket. If I fold my bucket up pushing over trees, it might be more reasonable. ;-)


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## velvetfoot (Apr 14, 2010)

I stopped on the way home from work to look at an almost brand Massey Ferguson 1530 with a loader.  He said it had 69 hp diesel.  The guy said he was moving to NC.  He said he was asking $30k. This was near East Greenbush, NY.


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## billb3 (Apr 14, 2010)

Take the time to make sure you get what you need rather than what you want.
Too big a tractor can be as frustrating  as too small.

R4 tires might rip up a  well  made lawn, but turf tires can be soft and squishy.
The weight of the tractor is a a good portion of the lawn damage equation.
I have turf tires because the first phase of my tractor use projects require lawn work, but phase two goes into the woods and those tires are not going to last ( I'm getting tears already from just going in part way).


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## leaddog (Apr 14, 2010)

I have a century 40pto hp tractor ( made by bronson). I looked at the major brands and they were higher priced and not built as heavy. They are built light for yard work. If you want a tractor for heavy fel use, woods work, field work get a tractor that is built heavy. Look at how the loaders are attached. People have been known to split bell housings. My loader has a 1in bar running the lenth of the tractor frame. My trasctor was 500lbs heavier than comparable major name tractors. That is good for what I do with it but not as good if you are using it for yard work. The korean made tractors are VERY good tractors and have been made for many years. Mine (kujie has been making tractors for over 25 years and has made jd's and now makes all cummings engines up to 50hp.) Parts aren't a problem. As far as buying US, well sorry but there isn't ANY made here. My tractor cost $16000 out the door and included 2-remotes, loaded tires, r-4s, heavy fel with 6ft bucket. The frame was the same size as the 25 to 40hp. They also made a smaller frame but it was just smaller tires and smaller spaced wheel size. So the tractor was basicly the same for all hp ranges. Mine is a gear tractor which I prefered as The work I do with it is better . Some prefer Hydr and that will cost extra. If I had bought a Deere or other major brands it would have cost $4000 or more and then I would have had to pay for the extras. Granted the resale will not be as high as if I had green, orange or blue but I don't ever plan on selling. Also don't think that just because you have a major brand that parts will always be there, just try and get parts for you 60's and 70's fords and if you do exspect to PAY. I had a 1910 ford 4x4 1980" vintage and parts were getting HARD to come by.
Just figure out what you are going to use the tractor for and don't rule any brand out. Go out and look and many of them, look at how they are made, at the heft of the castings, and how things fit together. Then drive and see how it fits you. then pick a dealer that you feel good with.
leaddog


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## semipro (Apr 15, 2010)

Jack, 
I have many of the same requirements as you and ended up with a JD 3032e with R4s, a FEL, and HST.   I went with HST primarily because of FEL operation and because our property is steep in some places and HST works well to hold you on slopes.  

The best piece of advice I can give you is to spend some time on the tractors you're considering.  Drive and use them at the dealer at least and get one to your property before buying if you can.  Many dealers are glad to let you try one out at your place.  

Good luck and have fun.


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## Highbeam (Apr 15, 2010)

That's right leaddog, even JDs are foreign made until you get up over something like 100HP. My Kioti is Korean and Kubota is from Japan, we live in a global economy so you may as well learn to live with it. Now getting a major brand tractor does get you better dealer support, better/faster parts availability should you ever need any, and even warranty work is easier if you have several dealers to choose from.  

My machine is comparable to a Kubota but is much heavier and that is a good thing for woods work. If you want a lawn mower then go buy a ZTR.


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## flyingcow (Apr 15, 2010)

My New Holland  TN75 was made is Italy.


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## kenny chaos (Apr 15, 2010)

A brand new 4x tractor with bucket is a bad investment.
You'll never get your money out of it doing what you said.
Equipment like that needs to be worked long and hard to pay for itself.
If ya got extra cash to throw away, great.  They make nice toys for big boys.
Brush hogging 5 acres a couple times a year is not efficient use of time, equipment or cash either.
Rent it out, fence it and graze a cow, do something other than just mow it.
A good used tractor can be a once in a lifetime investment and older tractors were built with good metal and better engineering.


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## Jack Straw (Apr 15, 2010)

kenny chaos said:
			
		

> A brand new 4x tractor with bucket is a bad investment.
> You'll never get your money out of it doing what you said.
> Equipment like that needs to be worked long and hard to pay for itself.
> If ya got extra cash to throw away, great.  They make nice toys for big boys.
> ...



I was wondering when I was going to hear from you. You said pretty much what I thought you would say. You make some good points and I will consider them. I expect to live another 20-30 years so purchasing an old tractor may not be the best move. I'm not too concerned about the tractor paying for itself it's more of a quality of life thing. I could repair my driveway with a wheel barrow and a rake, but I'd rather save my back and use a tractor. As far as the use of my time I would rather be out mowing than quite a few other things that I do. I know I am trying to justify what I want to do and I agree with some of your posts about consumers. 
Basically I work hard, I try to live a simple life, but darnit I want a nice tractor and I don't care what anyone else thinks.


And to everyone.... thanks for all of the great advice


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## daveswoodhauler (Apr 15, 2010)

Best advice was to go to a few dealers...try out a few models with attachments and such, and get what fits your needs.
Good luck, and enjoy the new ride.


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## kenny chaos (Apr 15, 2010)

I respect the hell out of your honesty.
You deserve a new tractor.
I'd think of your purchase kinda like buying a chainsaw in that you don't want
to go to the next county over for parts and or service.
Keep it close to home.
Around here, that happens to be Kubota.
Ford is farther away but not too bad and John Deere is almost an hour to get to.
Hence, very few JD's in use around here.
If going in the woods a lot, think industrial, not agricultural (more compact and heavy).


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## billb3 (Apr 16, 2010)

My JD 2520 has paid for itself in 3 years just from tackling landscaping projects on Sundays that I would have paid to haul bigger rental equipmemnt in to handle the job when it was time to do it. 
Rock / landscaping and barn and foundation with backfill removal.
No way could I have paid someone to come in and tackle it. I'd leave it or just cover it over to be someone else's problem some day.
 I still have 4-500 feet of well water feed pipe  to two houses to replace.
One more garage / barn and foundation and backfill to dispose of.

Make a long list of the projects you have for the next 10 years and buy the tool you can justify to get the projects done with the least amount of strain on your back and wallet.

I wish I had  bought a tractor 30 years ago.
I could have sold it by now and  have had all my projects done a loooooooong time ago.


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## LLigetfa (Apr 16, 2010)

Back when I bought my property, I tried hard to justify buying a decent tractor but I just couldn't make the ROI work when I could rent or hire for so much less.  The contractor that I hired to put in the driveway and septic field left me his JD track loader to use for a couple of months at no extra cost.  Afterwards I was able to rent a friend's Bobcat skidsteer for just the time on the meter.  It too was in my yard for over a month.

Two of my neighbors have large tractors that I hire from time to time.  The problem is they are too heavy to get into places without tearing up the yard.  What I need now is a SCUT with FEL but with all the major work done already, I cannot make the numbers work.


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## begreen (Apr 16, 2010)

Likewise, as much as I tried to justify owning a tractor, bottom line showed that for my projects, renting was better. Eventually I worked out a deal with a neighbor for rental of his Kubota. 

However, if you get a good tractor and keep it well maintained it may hold it's value. Inflation and dollar devaluation raised the price of a new Kubota and brought up the used market in price locally. Some used units are selling for about what they cost 5-10 yrs earlier. So treat it well and consider it an investment. That is assuming that one can find affordable diesel fuel 20-30 years from now.


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## Highbeam (Apr 16, 2010)

Of course a tractor can pay for itself. We're not talking about a business of course but it can pay for itself in savings over hiring out each of the odd jobs. There are millions of little jobs that you would do with a tractor quickly but wouldn't necessarily hire out. First off you need to consider resale/depreciation on tractors as BeGreen pointed out means that the tractor can always be sold for nearly what you paid. This means that you only need to complete a meager amount of work with the tractor for it to earn its keep. Then you need to consider the value of your time since really anything that can be done with a tractor can be done with manual labor if you have infinite time and your body is not old, the tractor makes long hard manual labor disappear into a puff od diesel smoke. Fuel cost is minimal, almost non-existent, these small diesels just sip fuel and since you can buy off-road tax free fuel it is cheap. You can and should hire out large jobs like removing stumps but when the big equipment leaves, you need to restore the ground to natural slopes and smoothness and that is expensive work. 

Every time I pull out the tractor to haul in the next couple of weeks worth of wood I am saving time (time is money) over doing it with a wheelbarrow. Each time I don't use the machine I lose no money since it is almost free to let it set what with the minimal depreciation being based almost entirely on machine hours.

Most of the hours I put on my machine are mowing the open 7 acres at my woodlot and with harvesting more wood to clear more of the lot. You (when I checked) need commercial insurance to rent out your woodlot for cattle which cost more than the tractor time, and raising animals is not something most folks would get into for the sake of avoiding mowing. But you would need to install fencing so why not use your tractor to dig the post holes and ferry the posts? You can rent the implements as needed to satisfy your desire to not own, renting implements makes good sense for some jobs.

On top of all that having a tractor is great fun and recreation. It can be work but it is good work compared to the alternative. My productivity has gone up immensely with my diesel powered wheelbarrow.


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