# Flue scraper for boiler tubes



## goosegunner (Feb 15, 2014)

Just did another cleaning today. I had a very small amount of crust in the tubes in some areas because I idled a little during some -25 degree weather overnight.

I am searching for a faster way to scrape tubes back down to metal. I found these scrapers on Grainger, has anyone used one?

What do you think?

http://www.grainger.com/product/TOUGH-GUY-Flue-Scraper-3EDN3?s_pp=false







At one time I saw some home made scrapers and also some for Empyre boilers. Does anyone know where to get one?

Any better scrapers out there?

gg


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## KenLockett (Feb 15, 2014)

Goosegunner, see thread below for a scraper I build based upon another design I found on here.  Definitely takes tubes down to bare metal.  Just need a piece of heavier gauge sheet metal and ability to bend and drill it.  Just getting ready to use it as matter of fact as I'm starting my monthly cleaning.  By the way I idle half the time and this thing takes anything accumulated right off.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/tarm-solo-fan-adjustments.121538/#post-1633826


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## Bad Wolf (Feb 15, 2014)

That looks real nice.  I've struggled to find something more aggressive than the brush to no avail.  Let us know if you get one.  It looks they have one for every diameter.


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## KenLockett (Feb 16, 2014)

What a difference a cleaning makes.  Flue temps down almost 200 Deg!  The trend to the right is last night's firing cycles after my cleaning.


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## KenLockett (Feb 16, 2014)

Before and after cleaning.  That cleaning tool really works.  There was a lot of crusty material beneath that ash.  Takes about 20 seconds per tube.  Bigger pain now is keeping the ash down as I push it down the tubes into the tunnel so I don't have ash in the air.  When I disturb it and it falls the draft pulls it back up.  Thinking about making plugs for each tube and an 'umbrella' for the cleaning tool I built for the tube I am cleaning at the time.


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## KenLockett (Feb 16, 2014)

Here is a direct picture of the tool.  Just use a threaded rod with your wireless drill.  The higher the speed the faster it works.


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## NCFord (Feb 16, 2014)

I just ordered one of these  http://www.mcmaster.com/#7267t14/=qpy3xz.   It looks like it will work pretty good, though I have yet to actually clean my boiler so we
will see.  Either way its easier than making one and cheap enough too.


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## muleman51 (Feb 16, 2014)

That spiral tool looks pretty agressive. I picked up a root cutter for cleaning drain lines at the local Menards, probably can get them at home depot or lowes. It was under $20 and works well. I just made a flex shaft for it out of sealtite, chucked it up in a cordless and polished the tubes right up.  Itry to put in a little creosote destroyer in the boiler the night before seems to help loosen up the junk.  I brush the tubes weekly and polish every month or so.   Good Luck   I'm sick of winter, almost out of wood and can't wait to turn on the AC.


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## hockeypuck (Feb 16, 2014)

Have you guys tried Torrington? About every brush you could imagine.

http://www.torringtonbrushes.com/


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## salecker (Feb 18, 2014)

I made one similar to the one in Kens pic.It's in one of my threads on cleaning the Econoburn.
I was looking to buy one,till i made mine.Not looking anymore.
The one that Goose showed looks like it will get the job done,be interested in finding out if it's worth the coin.
 Thomas


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## jebatty (Feb 18, 2014)

Also check out "flue brushes" from Zorotools on eBay. I just received a stiffer flue brush than the one I had to use on the 3" fire tubes for my Tarm, arrived yesterday. Will be used today.


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## KenLockett (Feb 18, 2014)

salecker said:


> I made one similar to the one in Kens pic.It's in one of my threads on cleaning the Econoburn.
> I was looking to buy one,till i made mine.Not looking anymore.
> The one that Goose showed looks like it will get the job done,be interested in finding out if it's worth the coin.
> Thomas



That must be where I got the idea.  It works very well and probably took about an hour to make and cost but a few bucks.


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## KenLockett (Feb 18, 2014)

jebatty said:


> Also check out "flue brushes" from Zorotools on eBay. I just received a stiffer flue brush than the one I had to use on the 3" fire tubes for my Tarm, arrived yesterday. Will be used today.



Jim I tried a 3" wire wheel but just had too much clearance for my 3" tubes.  Did you see any that were 3 1/4"?


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## huffdawg (Feb 18, 2014)

KenLockett said:


> What a difference a cleaning makes.  Flue temps down almost 200 Deg!  The trend to the right is last night's firing cycles after my cleaning.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 127642


Wow tha'ts quite a diff.  was it only fly ash in the tubes or was there creosote as well.    I'll try the same test with my Vesta data logger in a few days  usually only fly ash in my fire tubes .   Was your'e fan speed the same in both graphs also?


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## KenLockett (Feb 18, 2014)

huffdawg said:


> Wow tha'ts quite a diff.  was it only fly ash in the tubes or was there creosote as well.    I'll try the same test with my Vesta data logger in a few days  usually only fly ash in my fire tubes .   Was your'e fan speed the same in both graphs also?



Huffdawg, my fan speed is fixed on the Tarm.  There was some crusty crud underneath the flyash, although not as much as I thought there would be. That tool will take anything off.  Very aggressive.  The heat transfer is unbelievably faster after the cleaning.  That buildup was after 40 days of continuous firing.  Normally clean after 30 days,


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## jebatty (Feb 18, 2014)

> Ken: Jim I tried a 3" wire wheel but just had too much clearance for my 3" tubes. Did you see any that were 3 1/4"?


I ordered the 2-3/4 based on the specs stating that this was the right size for 3" -- NO. Zorotools has 3-1/4 and 3-1/2, and today I ordered one of each. They should arrive by Friday, and if you want to wait I will try both and put the results on this thread.


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## KenLockett (Feb 18, 2014)

jebatty said:


> I ordered the 2-3/4 based on the specs stating that this was the right size for 3" -- NO. Zorotools has 3-1/4 and 3-1/2, and today I ordered one of each. They should arrive by Friday, and if you want to wait I will try both and put the results on this thread.



Yes, please do.  Thanks


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## salecker (Feb 18, 2014)

I tried a few brushes on mine,didn't take off the buildup i had.I burnt some crappy wood last spring to get rid of it,and our spring was cold and long.
Thomas


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## mustash29 (Feb 20, 2014)

Here are some industrial types I found, used for industrial fire tube boilers and heat exchanger cleaning.

http://www.tcwilson.com/tube_cleaning/cleaning_heads/



http://www.goodway.com/accessories/...rushes-and-tools/tube-cleaner-specialty-tools


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## jebatty (Feb 20, 2014)

Got the brushes today, but earlier fired the Tarm, and it was too hot to give the brushes a try -- will do tomorrow.


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## KenLockett (Feb 20, 2014)

mustash29 said:


> Here are some industrial types I found, used for industrial fire tube boilers and heat exchanger cleaning.
> 
> http://www.tcwilson.com/tube_cleaning/cleaning_heads/
> 
> ...




Looks quite expensive.


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## iceguy4 (Feb 20, 2014)

goosegunner said:


> I had a very small amount of crust in the tubes in some areas because I idled a little during some -25 degree weather overnight.


 your kidding....right??


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## goosegunner (Feb 20, 2014)

iceguy4 said:


> your kidding....right??




Not really sure what your question is?

Had a stretch of cold weather, I loaded boiler for overnights so boiler idled on and off as storage dropped a little.

It was crusted ash that was not in tubes at last cleaning.

gg


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## iceguy4 (Feb 20, 2014)

goosegunner said:


> Not really sure what your question is?
> 
> Had a stretch of cold weather, I loaded boiler for overnights so boiler idled on and off as storage dropped a little.
> 
> ...


  I guess my understanding of boiler sizing when coupled with storage is wrong.  I would think on the nights when you hit -25° a properly sized boiler would be flat out...am I wrong?


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## goosegunner (Feb 20, 2014)

iceguy4 said:


> I guess my understanding of boiler sizing when coupled with storage is wrong.  I would think on the nights when you hit -25° a properly sized boiler would be flat out...am I wrong?




My boiler is oversized for the load. Partly because I wanted extra capacity for pool heat in the summer.

After using my boiler for 4 years now I don't think you would want one sized to run flat out at -25. you would be getting up in the night to load it if you did.

I would rather have a boiler with large firebox but lower out put if available. It would not consume the wood as fast but still run for a long time. WIth storage it would cushion any extra capacity.

I think the Froling is the only one close to that.

gg


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## henfruit (Feb 21, 2014)

goosegunner said:


> I think the Froling is the only one close to that.


 
The Vigas operates that like that.


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## maple1 (Feb 21, 2014)

iceguy4 said:


> I guess my understanding of boiler sizing when coupled with storage is wrong.  I would think on the nights when you hit -25° a properly sized boiler would be flat out...am I wrong?


 
My boiler isn't even burning at night.


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## iceguy4 (Feb 21, 2014)

maple1 said:


> My boiler isn't even burning at night.


  On a -25° night?    anyway better then" idling"  ..I thought the whole idea to adding "storage" was to stop all idling....


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## goosegunner (Feb 21, 2014)

Ok this place drives me crazy sometimes.  People sending me private messages questioning me that my boiler isn't sized right, really? Unmarked Vigas Dealers posting as though they are just users and implying that Vigas boilers are the best on the Planet and have no faults. Come on already it gets old fast. This was a thread about flue scrapers and if anyone has tried the ones pictured.

Every situation is different. I have Forced air heat and try not to let my tank go below 140.  I also work 24 hour shifts. During a -25 F stretch this year the nights before I went to work I would get the tank up to 185. I then lowered the set point to 175 and put in some more wood. This would keep the tank topped off a little more through the night so at 530 am when I would leave for work it was not depleted as much as running off storage only.  I then load 60 lbs of wood and top it off again.  My wife would do a fire sometime in the evening with 80lbs of wood that I would have in a shopping cart for her.

Now does my boiler normally run in the night? No, except this year when it was cold and very windy and I had to work the next day for 24 hours. My normal routine is fire is done by 10pm.  The 35 degree weather we had a few days ago I did 1 evening fire with 80lbs one night and 90 lbs the next night. It  is now turning cold again so my burning will change. Probably do a 40-50lbs in the am and 60-80 evening. But no night time burning.

Would it be different if I had radiant emitters? Yes! But I don't.

Would it be different if I had a bigger house? Smaller house? more insulation? less insulation? less windows?  YES! but I have what I have.

gg


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## goosegunner (Feb 21, 2014)

iceguy4 said:


> On a -25° night?    anyway better then" idling"  ..I thought the whole idea to adding "storage" was to stop all idling....




What is it with your hang up and idling? I thought I explained it in my reply to your private message questioning my boiler sizing and operation of mine.

My idling was very limited to cold nights only before I had to go away the next day.

Read my post above if my reply to your pm wasn't enough. Not sure how I can be more clear but I will say it again.

EVERY SITUATION IS DIFFERENT


gg


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## velvetfoot (Feb 21, 2014)

Can these tools get too aggressive?  You want to get down to bare metal, but not gouge?  A brush as mentioned before sounds gentler, but will it do the job?  The boiler mfrs supply a tool, no?
Hey look at that, four questions.


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## henfruit (Feb 21, 2014)

I am not trying to hide any thing.


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## henfruit (Feb 21, 2014)

Velvet, Just use the tool that comes with the boiler. Also a nice boiler brush on your cordless drill will do a nice job.


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## Fred61 (Feb 21, 2014)

goosegunner said:


> Every situation is different. I have Forced air heat and try not to let my tank go below 140.  I also work 24 hour shifts. During a -25 F stretch this year the nights before I went to work I would get the tank up to 185. I then lowered the set point to 175 and put in some more wood. This would keep the tank topped off a little more through the night so at 530 am when I would leave for work it was not depleted as much as running off storage only.  I then load 60 lbs of wood and top it off again.  My wife would do a fire sometime in the evening with 80lbs of wood that I would have in a shopping cart for her.
> Now does my boiler run in the night? No this year when it was cold and very windy and I had to work the next day for 24 hours. My normal routine is fire is done by 10pm.  The 35 degree weather we had a few days ago I did 1 evening fire with 80lbs one night and 90 lbs the next night. It  is now turning cold again so my burning will change. Probably do a 40-50lbs in the am and 60-80 evening. But no night time burning.


The situation makes sense to me. If my load was slightly more than my storage would handle or if I wanted insurance that I would be warm in the late wee hours and wanted to sleep through the night I would do the same. to hell with the idling taboo. This year has been a real world test for many including myself and perhaps goose knows more of what to expect from his system. Fortunately for me, my storage hung in there through the coldest nights. I took the chance and won. Loosing would have been a good browbeating from the Mrs. after she woke up to a cold house cold shower.


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## maple1 (Feb 21, 2014)

iceguy4 said:


> On a -25° night?    anyway better then" idling"  ..I thought the whole idea to adding "storage" was to stop all idling....


 
Yes. By the time I go to bed, my storage is charged, and so is my house, and my fire is in coals. Storage carries me through until the next lighting, which is typically supper time, but at the very coldest weather, it's noon. As GG says, everyones situation is different - and also changes now & again. I see nothing wrong with the way he's doing things. There is the odd time, if I'm out & late getting home and it's cold out, or whatever, that I'm late getting a fire going - if that happens then when I'm going to bed theres a full load of fuel in my boiler. In that case there is room in my storage for the fuel load - or if not quite then my system dumps the extra into my house. Such is the flexibility beauty of storage and a hot gasser.

Sorry - last off topic post from me. 

(I do use my factory supplied brush though with great results...)


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## Fred61 (Feb 21, 2014)

Occasionally I over fill my firebox with one or two extra splits that aren't needed to top off the storage. At boiler shutdown they still contain some of the unburned or uncharred material that produces the smoke and other nasty stuff but I must shut down the boiler anyway. Consequently some of the flyash I brush from the tubes isn't pure white but more gray. I haven't overloaded the boiler enough to produce crusty material in the tubes. I don't weigh my wood and I'm not sure this wouldn't happen if I did.


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## jebatty (Feb 21, 2014)

> ..."flue brushes" from Zorotools on eBay.


The Tarm has 3" firetubes. I did one tube with the brush furnished with my Tarm: three up and down, then turn the brush 90*, three up and down. Then in the adjacent tube I used the 3-1/4" brush. Fits snugly, and since the brush is round, just three up and down. This brush did a noticeably better job at cleaning the tube than the Tarm brush (which has been in use since 2007). Then in the same tube I used the 3-1/2" brush. This brush fits quite tightly, the fiberglass rod would bend and fair effort was needed to push and pull the brush through the tube, but it certainly is workable. It cleaned better than the 3-1/4" brush. The fiberglass rod I bought from local hardware, like that used for chimney cleaning brushes, male and female ends.

My tubes are quite clean, but there still is a small amount of scale on the tubes. It can be scraped off, but I don't think either of these brushes would qualify as a scraper. Maybe over time the 3-1/2 brush would work away at the scale and gradually remove it. I gave the tube a few more up and downs with the 3-1/2" brush and it made inroads on the scale.

I think if I bought one brush: the 3-1/4" does a good, quick job. The 3-1/2" does a better job, takes more time and effort. I would go with the 3-1/2" brush, thinking also that over time it would gradually wear and fits less tightly.


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## jebatty (Feb 21, 2014)

Addendum: the brushes seem to be of good quality, not cheaply made. The ones I bought were stainless steel.


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## henfruit (Feb 21, 2014)

What do you think about putting them on a drill?


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## flyingcow (Feb 21, 2014)

Thanks for the info jebatty. This had been a good thread.


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## jebatty (Feb 21, 2014)

> What do you think about putting them on a drill?


Probably would work, and may try that tomorrow.


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## KenLockett (Feb 21, 2014)

velvetfoot said:


> Can these tools get too aggressive?  You want to get down to bare metal, but not gouge?  A brush as mentioned before sounds gentler, but will it do the job?  The boiler mfrs supply a tool, no?
> Hey look at that, four questions.



In my opinion, no brush will take off the hard scale, or if so it takes a tremendous amount of effort and time.  The tool I made and mention in an earlier part of this thread can be as aggressive as you want by bending the sides in or out.  Does it gouge the tubes?  I was concerned by this initially as well but it does not.  Gotta tell you, before I used this tool for the first time I tried the supplied Tarm brush and then tried a circular wire brush wheel with wireless drill.  The tough scale would not come off.  Found the thread on here for the rectangular tool (used with threaded rod and wireless drill as well) and within 10 seconds the scale came off and the tube was clean down to the metal without gouging.  If you can use tin snips, a bending tool (or bending surface for that matter) and a drill for the rod hole, then you can make this tool.  Makes all the difference in the world to me when it comes to cleaning tubes.


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## velvetfoot (Feb 21, 2014)

Well, I can use tin snips.  I thought the metal was thicker than that.


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## KenLockett (Feb 21, 2014)

velvetfoot said:


> Well, I can use tin snips.  I thought the metal was thicker than that.



I will take a picture of the sheet metal sometime this weekend.  I bought like a 1' x 2' piece at Home Depot.  Think it cost about $7.  I will post what the gauge is.  Not the finest gauge stuff, but a little heavier.  Got through it with the tin snips.  Heavy enough gauge though that is easily retains shape so you can make tighter or looser by bending.  You actually want some flex so that is conforms to the shape of the tube with pressure on sides.


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## KenLockett (Feb 21, 2014)

velvetfoot said:


> Well, I can use tin snips.  I thought the metal was thicker than that.



So you are in Sand Lake?  I am about half hour from there on border of the towns of Berlin and Petersburgh, just off Hwy 22.  The halfway or townline house as it is known.  Small world.


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## velvetfoot (Feb 21, 2014)

I Binged it.  Beautiful place.
Do you know what's going on with that place in Berlin that has all those logs stored?  I drove near there, but further down 22 and didn't get a good look.


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## salecker (Feb 22, 2014)

KenLockett said:


> I will take a picture of the sheet metal sometime this weekend.  I bought like a 1' x 2' piece at Home Depot.  Think it cost about $7.  I will post what the gauge is.  Not the finest gauge stuff, but a little heavier.  Got through it with the tin snips.  Heavy enough gauge though that is easily retains shape so you can make tighter or looser by bending.  You actually want some flex so that is conforms to the shape of the tube with pressure on sides.


I found some wide strapping like what is used for lumber.It has a bit of spring in it which works good for pressure against the tubes.
 Thomas


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## KenLockett (Feb 22, 2014)

velvetfoot said:


> I Binged it.  Beautiful place.
> Do you know what's going on with that place in Berlin that has all those logs stored?  I drove near there, but further down 22 and didn't get a good look.



Binged it?? 

That is Green Renewables.  They manufacture the bags of kiln dried firewood you see in Stewarts as well as mulch and wood chip products.  They got a big grant from the state a couple of years ago to modernize their operations.  Used to be Cowees (lumberyard).  That is where I occasionally would buy kiln dried firewood.  Used to be $240 a cord.  This year when I called they wanted $385.  I politely deferred.  I mentioned this place in the Polar Vortex thread on the forum a while back.


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## KenLockett (Feb 22, 2014)

salecker said:


> I found some wide strapping like what is used for lumber.It has a bit of spring in it which works good for pressure against the tubes.
> Thomas


 probably same gauge steel I used.  Flat piece to start with probably easier to form and retain shape from the start.


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## TCaldwell (Feb 22, 2014)

jim, the fiberglass rod extensions have a tendancy to shear off from the drill torque and speed, leaving you with a brush where the sun doesnt shine. You could force it through with another brush.


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## velvetfoot (Feb 22, 2014)

KenLockett said:


> Binged it??
> 
> That is Green Renewables.  They manufacture the bags of kiln dried firewood you see in Stewarts as well as mulch and wood chip products.  They got a big grant from the state a couple of years ago to modernize their operations.  Used to be Cowees (lumberyard).  That is where I occasionally would buy kiln dried firewood.  Used to be $240 a cord.  This year when I called they wanted $385.  I politely deferred.  I mentioned this place in the Polar Vortex thread on the forum a while back.



Microsoft Bing, like Google Maps

Thanks for the info on Green.


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## KenLockett (Feb 22, 2014)

TCaldwell said:


> jim, the fiberglass rod extensions have a tendancy to shear off from the drill torque and speed, leaving you with a brush where the sun doesnt shine. You could force it through with another brush.


 
I use a 1/4" threaded steel rod you can get at any hardware store.  No worry with torque shear then.  I then took some heat shrink and ran it the length of the rod then heated.  Makes a nice grabbable surface and makes it handy to hold.  Jim, for the length of our tubes is about 30" (rod length) giving clearance for the wireless drill.  Tighten the chuck.  If it comes loose, you have to reach down grab rod.  Can be hot and like playing the game 'Operation' as a kid.  I epoxy'd the threaded coupling (rod to brush) to the circular brush I used before.  Didn't have to worry about the brush coming off then.  the scraping tool I use now is bolted to same thread rod (Front and back side of scraping tool with lock washers).


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## KenLockett (Feb 22, 2014)

velvetfoot said:


> Microsoft Bing, like Google Maps
> 
> Thanks for the info on Green.



Ah ha.


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## jebatty (Feb 22, 2014)

> ...the fiberglass rod extensions have a tendancy to shear off from the drill torque and speed


Just tested the 3-1/4" and exactly right. A steel rod may work. The brush of either side is easy enough to push through the tube, and the brush itself is about 4" long so it does make good contact with the tube. But like mentioned, I doubt it will serve as a scraper.


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## TCaldwell (Feb 22, 2014)

ive used drill extension rods, basically a smooth 3/8 rod with square head for the drill end and a double setscrew female end for the brush, i think greenlee sells them at home depot or elec supply house, they come in different lengths, i use a 8ft one on the garn with a knotted wire wheel


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## velvetfoot (Feb 22, 2014)

Aren't they flexible fiberglass as well?


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## TCaldwell (Feb 22, 2014)

they are steel, the short ones have no flex, longer ones will flex, with a 5 inchknotted wire wheel and a corded drill 8 ft apart, no probs


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## velvetfoot (Feb 22, 2014)

8'!


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## BoilerMan (Feb 22, 2014)

velvetfoot said:


> 8'!


GARN, go big or go home!

TS


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## mustash29 (Feb 25, 2014)

Interesting home made scraper drill thing-a-ma-jig:


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## Floydian (Feb 25, 2014)

I can't imagine having to clean my tubes with a contraption like that. In fact I can't see ever needing to use a drill as the brush that came with my boiler does a fine job. 3-4 passes with the brush and I can see bare metal. I have never had any build in the tubes that I would call scale. Only fine ash that brushes right off. I have seen a little scale on the bends of the turbs but I don't worry about that and I have yet to clean the turbs after 7 or so cords-they just don't get much build up.






I think there are a few factors here: The Varm is exceptionally easy to clean so I brush the tubes every 5 or 6 firings. I only batch burn to storage and my boiler has never idled as it simply cannot. It's all or nothing with the Varm thus storage is required with this boiler.

To me, the video above really demonstrates one benefit of storage-eliminating or minimizing idling, something any over sized wood boiler, gasser or not, is going to suffer from without adequate storage. And lets face it, any properly sized wood boiler is still going to be over sized 95% of the time.

Sorry, I did not intend to turn this into storage vs no storage thing, it just seems relevant to the ease of cleaning the tubes. Or maybe it has more to do with frequency of cleaning the tubes. Or that my boiler has only burned through 7+/- cords and I am still a relative newb.....

Noah


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## Newburner1 (Oct 23, 2014)

mustash29 said:


> Interesting home made scraper drill thing-a-ma-jig:



Awesome stuff. So the tool goes through creosote with no problems as well?


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## mustash29 (Oct 29, 2014)

Good question.  That vid is not mine, it was just something I came across and posted here for others to see.


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## jebatty (Oct 29, 2014)

> I did not intend to turn this into storage vs no storage thing, it just seems relevant to the ease of cleaning the tubes. Or maybe it has more to do with frequency of cleaning the tubes. Or that my boiler has only burned through 7+/- cords and I am still a relative newb....


 I agree with you. Tube cleaning is little more than brushing off the fly ash that sticks to the tubes. My Tarm saw its first winter in 2007-08, and the tubes look little different now than they did when new -- no creosote. If creosote in the tubes, then wood supply is too wet, boiler is idling excessively (even worse to much worse if wood is wet), primary/secondary air settings are way off, insufficient draft, return water protection temperature is too low, operating boiler too short a time to allow boiler to come up and stay at operating temperature, other operator error, a combination of the above, or just maybe a boiler design issue.

And despite the "GARN, go big or go home!" line of thought, the G also requires periodic maintenance and parts replacement, at least with the WHS 3200, and that maintenance is not necessarily easy or quick. All boilers require a level of maintenance.


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