# First major scrounge - how to get wood up hills with no motorized vehicles?



## BrianK (Mar 22, 2012)

Hi folks,
Now that I have a stove and I need wood, I'm noticing downed wood all around me.

There is an 8 acre tract of land directly behind my office bordered on 2 sides by power lines, with a lot of trees the power company has cut and left to rot. The tract itself is owned by a local coal company. I contacted them last week and requested permission to remove downed wood, and they sent me a form with permission to remove only downed wood, only on that 8 acres, and *no motorized vehicles are permitted*.

I can haul out the wood directly behind my office with a lawn cart I picked up last week specifically for that purpose.

However, there is a lot of good wood at the back of the coal company property along and at the bottom of a large steep hill, several hundred yards downhill from my office. See the attached photos.

Question: how can I get this wood up the hill without using motorized vehicles. I'll kill myself trying to haul it up in the yard cart (I've already had triple bypass, I simply can't do that kind of work any more.) My 15 year old son is willing to help, but even between the two of us this is more than we can accomplish.

Is there any way to winch it up using portable winches? Any other ideas?


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## smokinj (Mar 22, 2012)

I would just cherry pick it( easy stuff only).....Then move on!


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## BrianK (Mar 22, 2012)

smokinj said:


> I would just cherry pick it( easy stuff only).....Then move on!


 
One of the local old timers told me to get a horse and drag it out...its not motorized! (I'm seriously considering asking around to "hire" one for a day.)

This is the closest source of good free wood I have available. I park my trailer in my office parking lot, so its just a matter of getting the wood out of the tract and then bucking and splitting it at my leisure in my own parking lot before taking it home. So I'd like to get as much of it as reasonably possible.


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## baratta930 (Mar 22, 2012)

Two of the mules at a local stables we volunteer were used for logging up until recently.  If you've never handled a horse or mule before you don't want the hassle  (assuming someone will let you hire one for a day)

What about splitting it on site and then just cart out smaller loads?


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## smokinj (Mar 22, 2012)

BrianK said:


> One of the local old timers told me to get a horse and drag it out...its not motorized! (I'm seriously considering asking around to "hire" one for a day.)
> 
> This is the closest source of good free wood I have available. I park my trailer in my office parking lot, so its just a matter of getting the wood out of the tract and then bucking and splitting it at my leisure in my own parking lot before taking it home. So I'd like to get as much of it as reasonably possible.


 
Moving wood is the most expensive thing about this whole game. Once the money starts flowing its very hard to stop, and your in it more than if you just bought it. (Lots of easy scores out there)
I will not touch any job my trailer and splitter can not be with in a foot of the wood.


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## BrianK (Mar 22, 2012)

baratta930 said:


> What about splitting it on site and then just cart out smaller loads?


 
That's likely the best/cheapest option.

I was looking online at chainsaw capstan winches last night, but with the $$$ I'd spend on that and enough skidding rope to do the task, I could buy an awful of of seasoned split wood.


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## BrianK (Mar 22, 2012)

smokinj said:


> Moving wood is the most expensive thing about this whole game. Once the money starts flowing its very hard to stop, and your in it more than if you just bought it. (Lots of easy scores out there)
> I will not touch any job my trailer and splitter can not be with in a foot of the wood.


 
Hmmm...sound advice, thanks.

Right after snapping these photos, one of my patients offered me a maple on their property that the utility company just cut down this week. (I put up a "WANTED: Firewood" sign in my office last week.)


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## smokinj (Mar 22, 2012)

BrianK said:


> Hmmm...sound advice, thanks.
> 
> Right after snapping these photos, one of my patients offered me a maple on their property that the utility company just cut down this week. (I put up a "WANTED: Firewood" sign in my office last week.)


 

This stuff is hard enough when everything is perfect......Always cherry pick and take the easist first. If someone else comes along after you make there work the hardest!


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## BrianK (Mar 22, 2012)

smokinj said:


> .Always cherry pick and take the easist first. If someone else comes along after you make there work the hardest!


 
When I was a teenager we heated my parents' house for twelve years with a wood boiler. Our primary source of wood was from acreage owned by my dad's coworkers that had already been logged. We were primarily harvesting all the tops and limbs that were left behind.

None of that wood was "easy" but it was all free and a lot of it didn't need split. But that's the kind of work that's still in my head when I think of cutting firewood - a lot of ground covered in every day, and a lot of moving the hauling equipment to the next area of tops and limbs.

I had hoped to avoid this kind of work altogether, but the kiln dried hardwood ends I got from the local oak products manufacturer has dried up. They're slow and have not had any more available the last 8 weeks, and don't know when they will.


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## smokinj (Mar 22, 2012)

BrianK said:


> When I was a teenager we heated my parents' house for twelve years with a wood boiler. Our primary source of wood was from acreage owned by my dad's coworkers that had already been logged. We were primarily harvesting all the tops and limbs that were left behind.
> 
> None of that wood was "easy" but it was all free and a lot of it didn't need split. But that's the kind of work that's still in my head when I think of cutting firewood - a lot of ground covered in every day, and a lot of moving the hauling equipment to the next area of tops and limbs.
> 
> I had hoped to avoid this kind of work altogether, but the kiln dried hardwood ends I got from the local oak products manufacturer has dried up. They're slow and have not had any more available the last 8 weeks, and don't know when they will.


 
Yea thats kinda why there is lots of wood out there that just isnt worth the effort. Put more effort into the right wood and it will be easier and less time and money spent. This one bigger than I like but I can drive on top of the job. There out there just look hard at first then the phone does not stop. Walk away from the bad ones!


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## BrianK (Mar 22, 2012)

smokinj said:


> There out there just look hard at first then the phone does not stop. Walk away from the bad ones!


 
That does indeed seem to be the case. I went for another walk to the end of my street and found the stack of wood below. It was cleared for a gas or water line for the new building across the street. I asked the owner of the adjacent lot if I could park in his lot to access this stack and he gave me his full permission and blessing. This is a veritable gold mine for my needs. I'll need to move it with the yard cart about 30 feet across the grassy area, but I'll have my 15 year old son do that while I cut.:


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## Bspring (Mar 22, 2012)

As others have said, if it is too much work pass on it. This is just a thought, but there is a chance if you could talk to someone and explain your situatiion they many give you an answer like "I can't give you permission to use a motorized vehicle but I can tell you that no one will be our there looking next weekend.".


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## RORY12553 (Mar 22, 2012)

smokinj said:


> Moving wood is the most expensive thing about this whole game. Once the money starts flowing its very hard to stop, and your in it more than if you just bought it. (Lots of easy scores out there)
> I will not touch any job my trailer and splitter can not be with in a foot of the wood.


 
I could not agree more with this statement. I used to take everything from a scrounge but now I work the easy stuff especially being I don't have a hydro splitter and don't want to deal with HUGE rounds.


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## Wood Duck (Mar 22, 2012)

If I was going to try for that wood at the bottom of the 8 acre property I'd cut rounds where the logs are laying, then carry light loads in the cart. I find it easier to make a lot of trips with easy loads than try to pull fewer heavy loads up a hill. However, I think I would not bother with that stuff. It is too much work. I don't mind exercise, but for the same effort I could obtain a lot more wood in other places.


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## weatherguy (Mar 23, 2012)

Thats one thing Ive learned after scrounging for a while now, leave the hard stuff, there will be plenty of easy wood for the taking if your patient.


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## BrianK (Apr 8, 2013)

BrianK said:


> There is an 8 acre tract of land directly behind my office bordered on 2 sides by power lines, with a lot of trees the power company has cut and left to rot. The tract itself is owned by a local coal company. I contacted them last week and requested permission to remove downed wood, and they sent me a form with permission to remove only downed wood, only on that 8 acres, and *no motorized vehicles are permitted*.


 
After searching for the last year, I finally found an affordable used capstan winch within driving distance.



> 3,000lbs Gas powered winch. Asking $250.00. Has Chain mount anchor.


 
The owner didn't know much about it, said it was given to him. Apparently these are made for the utility industry by AB Chance. They're considerably slower than the Simpson and Portable brand capstan winches but are industrial grade and rated at 1500lbs lifting and 3000lb pulling.


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## schlot (Apr 8, 2013)

Are you going to hook it up to a truck?


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## BrianK (Apr 8, 2013)

schlot said:


> Are you going to hook it up to a truck?


 
The mount with it is used to attach it to a phone pole. I figured I'd just use a tree. But I have a cargo holder for my trailer hitch receiver that might be able to support it when I can get the Expedition close enough.

Here is a similar unit from the same manufacturer:


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## Hills Hoard (Apr 8, 2013)

I rekon you need to pick your fights, and this scrounge isn't worth it.  As you said, there is wood all around you so why over work yourself on this wood.

 I've walked away from some amazing hoards because they were too hard or illegal or not worth the stress.   There is always more wood, and you dont need another heart bypass


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## BrianK (Apr 8, 2013)

Hills Hoard said:


> I rekon you need to pick your fights, and this scrounge isn't worth it. As you said, there is wood all around you so why over work yourself on this wood.


This pile is about 60 feet from a parking lot (my original guestimate was ~30 feet). I figure its enough wood for me for two seasons or more. Its been down for about 3- 4 years now, its free, and I have permission to use the parking lot and to take the pile (but I'm not permitted to use a motorized vehicle in the grassy area). I can winch it over next to the lot with the winch quite easily. That's worth it to me (or at least its a good excuse to buy a winch I probably don't really need.)


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## Hills Hoard (Apr 8, 2013)

I can see why you are tempted!!    ..


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## MasterMech (Apr 8, 2013)




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## HDRock (Apr 9, 2013)

60 ft is not that far, I would definitely  get that wood.
It might be faster to hook on a line and pull it with truck, if parking lot is not that big, just pull it part way shorten the line, and do it again


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## BrianK (Apr 9, 2013)

MasterMech said:


>




I downloaded the plans and dimensions for one of those from one of the members here. A friend who used to work in a welding and fabricating shop is going to put one together for me. I already have the axle with rims and tires from an old utility trailer and a big set of Dixie skidding tongs for the build but I don't think he's going to get around to it soon. So I'm looking at other options so I can get this big pile done this spring. But once I have both the log arch and the capstan winch with 300' of rope it's no longer out of the question to bring logs up out of the deep gully behind my office in the first photos in my original post. I've seen videos where they used a log arch with a capstan winch to bring logs up some steep inclines, and that combo was pretty slick.


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## bogydave (Apr 9, 2013)

I'd use a pulley chained up in a tree by the parking lot. 
Good rope. One end to the log, one end to the truck, &  back up.

I got some log up a 150' hill, went pretty smooth.
60 feet should be no problem.


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## MasterMech (Apr 9, 2013)

I'd be concerned about skidding logs across the grass as the owners are obviously concerned about damage?

Hence the log arch suggestion.


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## HDRock (Apr 9, 2013)

BrianK said:


> I downloaded the plans and dimensions for one of those from one of the members here. A friend who used to work in a welding and fabricating shop is going to put one together for me. I already have the axle with rims and tires from an old utility trailer and a big set of Dixie skidding tongs for the build but I don't think he's going to get around to it soon. So I'm looking at other options so I can get this big pile done this spring. But once I have both the log arch and the capstan winch with 300' of rope it's no longer out of the question to bring logs up out of the deep gully behind my office in the first photos in my original post. I've seen videos where they used a log arch with a capstan winch to bring logs up some steep inclines, and that combo was pretty slick.


 
I have been looking at the log arches ,and thinking of building one,I have plans for a larger one to use with tractor or atv
 It would be very much appreciated ,if you could send me the plans you have ,or tell me where I can download them


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## HDRock (Apr 9, 2013)

HERE are the plans I found
Article 

One built from those plans


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## BrianK (Apr 9, 2013)

MasterMech said:


> I'd be concerned about skidding logs across the grass as the owners are obviously concerned about damage?
> 
> Hence the log arch suggestion.


Actually the coal company that owns the property was sued recently by an ATV rider who broke their arm while riding without permission on the coal company's property. As a result they have forbidden any use of motorized vehicles on their properties and they are actively pursuing anyone violating the policy. 

My written agreement with them to take downed wood on their property explicitly states that use of motorized vehicles is prohibited. 

(Wonder if a DR Power Wagon is considered a motorized vehicle? Probably only if it has a sulky.)


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## BrianK (Apr 9, 2013)

HDRock said:


> I have been looking at the log arches ,and thinking of building one,I have plans for a larger one to use with tractor or atv
> It would be very much appreciated ,if you could send me the plans you have ,or tell me where I can download them


Here you go:
Logging Arch........


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## Mr A (Apr 9, 2013)

BrianK said:


> Actually the coal company that owns the property was sued recently by an ATV rider who broke their arm while riding without permission on the coal company's property. As a result they have forbidden any use of motorized vehicles on their properties and they are actively pursuing anyone violating the policy.
> 
> My written agreement with them to take downed wood on their property explicitly states that use of motorized vehicles is prohibited.
> 
> (Wonder if a DR Power Wagon is considered a motorized vehicle? Probably only if it has a sulky.)


Litigation is a curse. You can sign away rights to sue, but then if you use your health insurance, or other insurance for the vehicle, due to mishap, the insurance companies sue each other whether you want to or not. Doesn't matter if anyone is at fault or not, it's cheaper to settle, they settle and raise the coal company's rates. I am working on some logs pretty far from the road. I walk in, cut up 10 or so rounds, and haul out 2 at a time with my hand truck. I am far ahead in my stockpiling, so when I want to take a walk for exercise, I walk to the pile of rounds I cut and take a few home, but to get ahead you do need faster, easier scrounges. That hill doesn't look to steep, you could get a cord a month this way. Maybe you could hire an Amish guy and his mule cart.


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## blacktail (Apr 9, 2013)

60 feet and a 15 year-old kid. Buck it up, add a wheelbarrow, and you've got your wood.


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## HDRock (Apr 9, 2013)

Log Arch — 800-Lb. Capacity, 16ft.L Log Capacity
Sale $109.00


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## schlot (Apr 9, 2013)

Being down that long, is the wood getting punky at all?  I'd hate to see you go through all the effort only to get junk wood.


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## ailanthus (Apr 9, 2013)

You could have about 500 cord delivered to your driveway for the cost of the triple-CABG you had.  Please don't jeopardize yourself carting wood uphill!   Now the 15 year old, that's another story...


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## BrianK (Apr 9, 2013)

blacktail said:


> 60 feet and a 15 year-old kid. Buck it up, add a wheelbarrow, and you've got your wood.



We have a two wheeled lawn cart and that's how we've taken about four cords out of the woods directly behind my office which is just a block from this pile of wood. That would be the obvious solution here too but I have more of a time constraint. The parking lot I'm using for this pile belongs to my dentist's office and I'm constrained time wise with when I can use their parking lot due to their office schedule. I'm just trying to figure out a method that's both quick and efficient.


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## BrianK (Apr 9, 2013)

ailanthus said:


> You could have about 500,000 cord delivered to your driveway for the cost of the triple-CABG you had.  Please don't jeopardize yourself carting wood uphill!   Now the 15 year old, that's another story...



That's why I'm looking at using a capstan winch. "Better living through chemistry." Internal combustion chemistry. 



schlot said:


> Being down that long, is the wood getting punky at all?  I'd hate to see you go through all the effort only to get junk wood.


My son and I were climbing on the pile on Saturday and it still seemed rock solid. I guess we won't know for sure till we start cutting.


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## Woody Stover (Apr 9, 2013)

blacktail said:


> 60 feet and a 15 year-old kid. Buck it up, add a wheelbarrow, and you've got your wood.





BrianK said:


> That's worth it to me (or at least its a good excuse to buy a winch I probably don't really need.)


Since your son can help, you might do what we used to do; Use a wheelbarrow and tow strap with hooks. Put a hook on each end of the axle, forming a loop with the strap. Your son can loop it around his chest and pull while you lift the wheelbarrow handles and guide the load....not too strenuous (for you at least.)


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## BrianK (Apr 9, 2013)

Woody Stover said:


> Since your son can help, you might do what we used to do; Use a wheelbarrow and tow strap with hooks. Put a hook on each end of the axle, forming a loop with the strap. Your son can loop it around his chest and pull while you lift the wheelbarrow handles and guide the load....not too strenuous (for you at least.)


 
We've been using one of these:




We've hauled four cords out of the woods directly behind my office with it so far. But with this big pile of wood and time constraints I mentioned above, I'm trying to figure out something a bit quicker and a lot easier.

I'm picking up the capstan winch this afternoon. For $250, I figure I can't go wrong. They're listed _*considerably*_ higher on eBay and with the mount included this unit would have originally sold for well over $3000.


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## MasterMech (Apr 9, 2013)

HDRock said:


> Log Arch — 800-Lb. Capacity, 16ft.L Log Capacity
> Sale $109.00


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## Woody Stover (Apr 9, 2013)

BrianK said:


> We've been using one of these:
> We've hauled four cords out of the woods directly behind my office with it so far.


How much can you carry in one trip...that cart doesn't look too heavy-duty but I can't really tell from the pic. The problem with the wheelbarrow is that the load is balanced on one tire, so the "handle man" has to stabilize it from tipping. Nevertheless, we were putting three or four decent-sized rounds on it.
Sounds like a great score on the winch, though...that'll do the job.


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## Backwoods Savage (Apr 9, 2013)

BrianK said:


> We've been using one of these:
> 
> We've hauled four cords out of the woods directly behind my office with it so far. But with this big pile of wood and time constraints I mentioned above, I'm trying to figure out something a bit quicker and a lot easier.
> 
> I'm picking up the capstan winch this afternoon. For $250, I figure I can't go wrong. They're listed _*considerably*_ higher on eBay and with the mount included this unit would have originally sold for well over $3000.


 

That cart can haul a lot for sure. We have one similar and have used it more than I care to admit but we've also had it for 30 years or so.

Certainly moving that wood a mere 20 yards is not that much work especially with help. Also because of your physical problem, let that boy do most of the work!


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