# Quadra Fire Sante fe control box issue



## Den-Den (Mar 25, 2011)

Hi there all, I have an older Sante fe that has been wonderful for me till today, Noticed a lot of pellets had filled the pot to overflowing it. after a thorough cleaning I turned it back on and waited, and waited and waited for pellets to drop, Nothing. I had this happen one other time and found the tube to vacuum switch plugged, not this time, I checked  for vacuum and was pulling .15 IN-Wg according to my fancy tester from work, The switch is closing when checked with an ohm meter, all snap discs ohm good. So I dug around and in my papers I found one for the control box that told of the different settings for the control box, on the bottom of the page it says to put in setting #0 for diagnosis, so I did, the Combustion blower, convection blower and ignitor prove out for the 10 second cycle, but the auger didn't feed, I checked and there is no power coming out of box on terminal #10 to the auger. Inside the control box nothing looks burnt and the fuse is good, so my question is this, does anyone know what tanker, hotel or gizmo holding the PFM may be the culprit inside the box? I hate to spend a few hundred bucks if all i need to do is replace a triac, optoisolator, or 0.1uF, 400V capacitors, big words I found about these boards, but not the info I needed for my problem. I am going to try to contact Pantrol also as they built the board but figured I'd ask here too.
Thanks for reading and any info.
Den-Den


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## heat seeker (Mar 25, 2011)

First, I'd make very sure that the connector on the board is making good contact with the cable. You could try swapping a couple of triacs with each other to see what happens - if the problem moves, the triac is bad. If everything looks good on the board, including the fuse(s), then the triac is the next suspect on my list. It's been my experience that the "high powered" components are the ones that fail the most, and in this case, that would be the triac for the motor.


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## tjnamtiw (Mar 25, 2011)

TurboTech should be along any time now to help you and possibly troubleshoot/fix your board.  If you search, in a post from a few months ago, all the replacement triacs, etc were listed with new part #'s.


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## Den-Den (Mar 25, 2011)

Quick update, I did a bit of testing, found F2 was blown on the board, looked like a resistor, I soldered in a 1 amp fuse, now the auger always runs again. Back to square 1, oh yea I never did mention the getting torqued because as I was working on the stove the GF came in and said the garage door spring broke, bad timing,   I did find out that Sante fe glass doors will crack when slammed in a bit of a hissy fit...stupid me..(All I wanted to do today was dig out my Dodge Stealth and get ready for a road trip next weekend) Come on Spring hurry up already!


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## Wood Heat Stoves (Mar 25, 2011)

Control boards can be tricky to troubleshoot without the proper manuals and experience. Here are some links to a control board rebuild service, a new board if you need one, and a manual for your stove. 

http://woodheatstoves.com/generic-control-board-rebuild-service-p-12026.html

http://woodheatstoves.com/control-box-3-speed-srv7000205-p-2059.html

http://woodheatstoves.com/quadrafire-santa-fe-user-manual-p-1694.html


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## Den-Den (Mar 26, 2011)

heat seeker said:
			
		

> First, I'd make very sure that the connector on the board is making good contact with the cable. You could try swapping a couple of triacs with each other to see what happens - if the problem moves, the triac is bad. If everything looks good on the board, including the fuse(s), then the triac is the next suspect on my list. It's been my experience that the "high powered" components are the ones that fail the most, and in this case, that would be the triac for the motor.


I swapped the two triacs before I posted, forgot to mention that, found they are for convection and combustion blower. There isn't one I can see for the auger. thanks and any suggestions are welcome,, keep them coming


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## tjnamtiw (Mar 26, 2011)

Your luck sounds just like mine - all bad!  First, that glass is going to COST  Second, I assume the spring that broke is the torsion version.  They can literally kill you if you don't respect them and read up on how to set them.  Ask me how I know!  Be very, very careful!


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## Den-Den (Mar 26, 2011)

Glass for the door about $90.00 Spring was the long one, rebent the end to make a hook. Torsion springs do bite I know!  Dodge Stealth still under cover and under snow
Our luck can only get better. Right?

As far as heat for tonight I wired in an Allen Bradley timer set at 10 seconds on and 20 seconds off. Hope to fix board or order a new one very soon.


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## Den-Den (Mar 26, 2011)

I searched the forum for hours on any info for the board, nothing jumped out, another forum had a little bit but nothing for mine. Couldn't find any part numbers here either.


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## tjnamtiw (Mar 26, 2011)

Page one of this one shows some parts for 'A' control box but maybe not yours exactly.  Might point you in the right direction.  PM 'turbotech' if you like.  I know he could help.  
Glad to hear the spring fix was an easy one.  I was surprised at how cheap the glass was.  I tried to find glass for a wood stove my dealer broke while he had it for consignment and it was super expensive.  Like $300.  
Hope you get her going.  Sounds like you know what you're doing.  I've toyed around with the idea of replacing the control box with a Cubloc controller to give more feedback and monitor each step for easier troubleshooting.  I have a program written except haven't figured out exactly how to monitor the temperature.  Love to tinker.


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## Den-Den (Mar 26, 2011)

tjnamtiw said:
			
		

> Page one of this one shows some parts for 'A' control box but maybe not yours exactly.  Might point you in the right direction.  PM 'turbotech' if you like.  I know he could help.
> Glad to hear the spring fix was an easy one.  I was surprised at how cheap the glass was.  I tried to find glass for a wood stove my dealer broke while he had it for consignment and it was super expensive.  Like $300.
> Hope you get her going.  Sounds like you know what you're doing.  I've toyed around with the idea of replacing the control box with a Cubloc controller to give more feedback and monitor each step for easier troubleshooting.  I have a program written except haven't figured out exactly how to monitor the temperature.  Love to tinker.


All right, I must be an idiot and one who is not keen on forums for their complexity, I can't find this elusive page one you speak of.
I did PM turbo tech though and the house did stay warm with the jeri rigged timer, got down to -6 outside again last night, enough winter already


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## tjnamtiw (Mar 26, 2011)

No, I'm the idiot.  I can't tell you how many times I forget to insert the 'copied' address into a post. dumb dumb dumb......   https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/64546/

Looks like it could be a relay and not a triac for the auger since you don't have to adjust the speed on it.  The triac's let you chop the AC to vary the speed, I think.

Let's try again.   :red:


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## Den-Den (Mar 26, 2011)

Thanks interesting read, you and I have a lot in common from bad luck to choice of headphones. Anyway I looked at my board again, not sure why? I've stared at it's magical being way to long yesterday, but I only see one relay in the traditional sense. When I do the test mode, the relay clicks and as far as testing has shown it is for the ignitor. The board has the identifier Pantrol P/N 010606  Not sure what really controls the auger as I am very novice in electronics or the PFM that goes on in them.


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## Den-Den (Mar 26, 2011)

OK took a picture of the board with what I suspect to be naughty parts. Anyone please chime in, The two items circled are suspect, F2 I had jumpered and I think it is a fuse and power only went in and not out to the auger. The other item circled has the number AOH2223, not sure what it is or crosses to but in the same circuit as the F2.


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## tjnamtiw (Mar 26, 2011)

your relays might be just a black box like this  http://search.digikey.com/scripts/D...g=en&site=us&keywords=655-T7CS5D-24&x=22&y=17

Might very well be an electronic switch so you wouldn't hear clicking.


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## Den-Den (Mar 26, 2011)

there is only one on the board that looks like that and it powers the ignitor. Wish I could read Chinese as the AOH2223 is listed but all in Chinese. Looks to be a triac of sorts.


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## tjnamtiw (Mar 26, 2011)

the upper circled one is an integrated circuit.  The number crosses to timers.  The bottom one LOOKS like a capacitor but F2 would make you think it's a fuse.  Maybe a fusible link???  Got me on that one.  No markings on it?  I don't see another relay besides the Potter Brumfield one.


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## Den-Den (Mar 26, 2011)

A timer you say? makes sense as the auger is timed on/off Did you have luck on a part number?
The other one says F 1 1/2A So think it's a fuse.


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## tjnamtiw (Mar 26, 2011)

Den-Den said:
			
		

> A timer you say? makes sense as the auger is timed on/off Did you have luck on a part number?
> The other one says F 1 1/2A So think it's a fuse.



No luck on the AOH2223 but on Digikey.com you'll find several IC's with the 2223.  Some are timers and others are analog to digital converters OR optoisolators.   I'll keep looking.  Wish turbotech would drop in.

http://search.digikey.com/scripts/D...arch_go&lang=en&site=us&keywords=2223&x=0&y=0

http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=751-1490-5-ND


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## tjnamtiw (Mar 26, 2011)

http://www.mouser.com/Semiconductors/Solid-State-Relays/_/N-6gqku?Keyword=2223&FS=True

it could be AQH2223 INSTEAD OF AOH2223????


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## Den-Den (Mar 26, 2011)

Hey thanks for the help! I posted on our local Craig s list looking for a dead board that may have a different issue so I have parts to swap out. Will keep you posted


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## Den-Den (Mar 26, 2011)

tjnamtiw said:
			
		

> http://www.mouser.com/Semiconductors/Solid-State-Relays/_/N-6gqku?Keyword=2223&FS=True
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> it could be AQH2223 INSTEAD OF AOH2223????


Dang, Bravo,   I took a magnifying glass to it and there it was a "Q" . time to order some parts, Thanks a ton for having better eyes then these old wore out one's I have with big old reading glasses on. OH yea, I have the Stealth out from under wraps


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## tjnamtiw (Mar 26, 2011)

That's got to be it!  I'd replace the big triacs and the PB relay too.  heck the price is right.  good luck


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## Den-Den (Mar 26, 2011)

Parts are ordered, Will keep you all posted.  :cheese:


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## tjnamtiw (Mar 26, 2011)

Den-Den said:
			
		

> Parts are ordered, Will keep you all posted.  :cheese:



Great.  Yea, let me know how it turns out.  What did you end up ordering, just for the record in case someone else has the same problem?  What was the total cost?


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## Den-Den (Mar 26, 2011)

I ordered two of the fuses TR1/MCRW1.5A and two of the AQH2223 to start with, grand total W/O shipping $5.24 Unless turbo pipes up and suggests something else I figured I try these first. I figure order two each, that way it will never fail again, until I put the spares "Away" never to be found again...


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## tjnamtiw (Mar 26, 2011)

ha ha ha.  You use the same insurance policy I do.  Order something and you will never need it!  Same problem here, though.  'Now where in the world did I put that?????'  
I thought it was kind of funny that they used a 1.5 amp fuse to protect an optoislolator relay that handles, I think, 0.9 amps.  ???


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## turbotech (Mar 26, 2011)

Yes, it is AQH2223 and made by Panasonic. Your description sound like it is the cause of the failure with the auger. Good news is that you have the latest control module. Bad news is the the AQH2223 is bad. It is the triac. Check Mouser for a new part. I recommend installing a socket for it while you are at it. Make sure the fuse is good.

Good job diagnosing the problem. And yes, always order spares. Are you sure you ordered the right fuse. It is a PICO II 250V. Oh, and make sure you get the Panasonic part. It is rated higher than other manufacturers the last time I checked.

EDIT: I would have posted earlier but I was out back doing some cutting & splitting.


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## turbotech (Mar 26, 2011)

tjnamtiw said:
			
		

> ha ha ha.  You use the same insurance policy I do.  Order something and you will never need it!  Same problem here, though.  'Now where in the world did I put that?????'
> I thought it was kind of funny that they used a 1.5 amp fuse to protect an optoislolator relay that handles, I think, 0.9 amps.  ???



The fuse selection was not a wise choice in the design. I hear you on extra parts. Everyone laughs at me for the boxes of junk I have in storage......until they need that odd ball part that of course I have tucked away somewhere. Fixing broken stuff is so much more fun than just chucking it in the trash and buying new.


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## turbotech (Mar 27, 2011)

Den-Den said:
			
		

> Quick update, I did a bit of testing, found F2 was blown on the board, looked like a resistor, I soldered in a 1 amp fuse, now the auger always runs again. Back to square 1, oh yea I never did mention the getting torqued because as I was working on the stove the GF came in and said the garage door spring broke, bad timing,   I did find out that Sante fe glass doors will crack when slammed in a bit of a hissy fit...stupid me..(All I wanted to do today was dig out my Dodge Stealth and get ready for a road trip next weekend) Come on Spring hurry up already!



I had a few garage door springs break and there is nothing worse than standing outside of the door as you hear springs flying where you store your summer car. I just hope the Stealth wasn't in there or didn't get damaged if it was.


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## Den-Den (Mar 27, 2011)

Thanks turbotech for checking in, I hope this solves the problem, not sure why it blew the fuse in the first place, odd I guess. Is there anything else I should have guessed at ordering?


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## turbotech (Mar 27, 2011)

I would have installed an 8 pin DIP socket so that could have been ordered. It depends on how long you plan on keeping the stove.


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## Den-Den (Mar 27, 2011)

OK not sure what a dip socket is... yet.... I'm looking it up, but I am somewhat of a dip stick. I did check and I did order the Panasonic AQH2223 Was just looking for the socket you had mentioned and found nothing. Like I said in an early post, I am very novice in this area, wanted to do electronics back in the day, but failed because I am color blind and the first thing they taught us was resistors and band colors, needless to say I failed because of that, so got into autos and now maintenance/electro mechanics at work.


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## Den-Den (Mar 27, 2011)

turbotech said:
			
		

> I would have installed an 8 pin DIP socket so that could have been ordered. It depends on how long you plan on keeping the stove.


Now is see what you where talking about, will the AQH2223 plug directly into this?


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## tjnamtiw (Mar 27, 2011)

Yea, a socket would have made it easier.  Should have thought of that.   :red:   Not only does it make it easier to replace next time but also you don't have to worry about damaging triac from overheating.  Hopefully, Den-Den has some small alligator clips to clip onto leads while soldering.  

I used to fix TV's and radios in the old, old days and have many parts left over.  Want some tubes?????  ha ha ha.  Picture tube tester?  Flyback transformers?  The only piece of equipment I can use is the scope and capacitor tester.  Sold my big Techtronics scope.  Now all the electronics stuff is throw away, thanks to China.  

Once I was pushing my little fiberglass kit car out of my garage and just as it cleared the door, the torsion spring broke and the heavy wooden garage door came crashing down.  Scared the crap out of me.  it would have been like a guillotine on that plastic car!!  Lucky!


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## turbotech (Mar 27, 2011)

Den-Den said:
			
		

> OK not sure what a dip socket is... yet.... I'm looking it up, but I am somewhat of a dip stick. I did check and I did order the Panasonic AQH2223 Was just looking for the socket you had mentioned and found nothing. Like I said in an early post, I am very novice in this area, wanted to do electronics back in the day, but failed because I am color blind and the first thing they taught us was resistors and band colors, needless to say I failed because of that, so got into autos and now maintenance/electro mechanics at work.



Mouser.com part
535-08-3518-10
8P SOLDER TIN/GLD 

It just saves the PCB from being heated too much every time the part is changed. 
If you work cars you can fix anything. So many different technologies in cars that it forces you to learn a little bit of all. Restoring old cars with the latest tech is one of my favorite past times. Nothing like a turbocharged oldie putting out 600+ HP.
You did a great job figuring out what was wrong with that box. What did you install for a timer to get it by for now? I am curious.


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## turbotech (Mar 27, 2011)

tjnamtiw said:
			
		

> Yea, a socket would have made it easier.  Should have thought of that.   :red:   Not only does it make it easier to replace next time but also you don't have to worry about damaging triac from overheating.  Hopefully, Den-Den has some small alligator clips to clip onto leads while soldering.
> 
> I used to fix TV's and radios in the old, old days and have many parts left over.  Want some tubes?????  ha ha ha.  Picture tube tester?  Flyback transformers?  The only piece of equipment I can use is the scope and capacitor tester.  Sold my big Techtronics scope.  Now all the electronics stuff is throw away, thanks to China.
> 
> Once I was pushing my little fiberglass kit car out of my garage and just as it cleared the door, the torsion spring broke and the heavy wooden garage door came crashing down.  Scared the crap out of me.  it would have been like a guillotine on that plastic car!!  Lucky!



The biggest killer for fixing new stuff is dealing with the surface mount technology. Sometimes it is too small to fix and I have to chuck it. Knowing how to use a scope is an art. So many people need the application specific tool to fix things these days because they can't figure out a scope. It is one of the best tools to have.


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## Den-Den (Mar 27, 2011)

turbotech said:
			
		

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Fast old cars, my second car ever was a 1965 Tri Power GTO (Built beyond factory specs) at the ripe old age of 16. loved it had to sell to it go to Dunwoody, (Google it) Now  a  Dodge Stealth, looking for the Twin Turbo model, twice the trouble, right :roll: ? 
Anyway back on track, Thanks for the kudo's . The relay I am using is an Allen Bradley Cat# 700-HRF72DA18 Series C. set at like 10 sec. on and 20 seconds off. these are great timers for all kinds of stuff.


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## Den-Den (Mar 27, 2011)

turbotech said:
			
		

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I had one for diagnosing cars a while back, we used them on the points system back in the day, probably would have worked for this but took up a bay in the garage.


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## B-Mod (Mar 27, 2011)

Den-Den said:
			
		

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I bought me one of them there, twin turbo stealth's two summers ago, fun to drive, but I miss doing burnouts, lol. The wife's summer toy is a 96 Pontiac firebird convertable, with a 350 LT1 motor, talk about a car that can do burnouts. Also my 88 Mustang GT is good for burning tires too...........


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## tjnamtiw (Mar 27, 2011)

Ah the days of points!  That's why I liked Fords over Chevy's.  Got tired of that damn distributor WAY BACK THERE.  My favorite rides were my '67 Cougar GT with a 390 4 speed, a '69 427 425 HP Vette T top with side pipes and 4 speed, and a '63 Porsche 356 B Super 90 with airport gearing for gymkhanas.  Those were the days.  Now I can't even change my serpentine belt on my car without taking the damn wheel off and removing the inner wheel well.   Of course, on my Cougar I couldn't change plugs without drilling holes in the wheel wells to get at them.  That 390 was packed in there but man did it scream.


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## B-Mod (Mar 27, 2011)

Points??? What are those, lol. Yes them were the good old days, but now I have a 67 Impala SS sporting a MSD ignition, and fuel injection, modern day tech is nice, if it keeps working..........


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## tjnamtiw (Mar 27, 2011)

Yea, points were a pain in the butt.


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## B-Mod (Mar 27, 2011)

I still got points in my old Ferguson tractor, lol.........


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## tjnamtiw (Mar 28, 2011)

B-Mod said:
			
		

> I still got points in my old Ferguson tractor, lol.........



At least you can get at the distributor without laying on your belly like a lizard.  I actually cracked a rib one time on a Chevy truck laying in there.


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## B-Mod (Mar 28, 2011)

Ouch, I remember on my old 4 door impala, with a 250 straight 6, jumping under the hood, and standing next to the motor to work on it, plenty of room under the hood, when you did not opt for the v8's. Those were the days when cars were simple, you could pull the motor out of the car in less than two hours, now that same job will take days on this newer stuff.......


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## TLHinCanada (Mar 28, 2011)

tjnamtiw said:
			
		

> Ah the days of points! That's why I liked Fords over Chevy's. Got tired of that damn distributor WAY BACK THERE. My favorite rides were my '67 Cougar GT with a 390 4 speed, a '69 427 425 HP Vette T top with side pipes and 4 speed, and a '63 Porsche 356 B Super 90 with airport gearing for gymkhanas. Those were the days. Now I can't even change my serpentine belt on my car without taking the damn wheel off and removing the inner wheel well. Of course, on my Cougar I couldn't change plugs without drilling holes in the wheel wells to get at them. That 390 was packed in there but man did it scream.



The reason I stopped buying ford's was that convenient distributor with the vacuum line facing forward. Setting the timing required removing and plugging said line, it was stiff, gave it a good pull. I stopped the engine when my hand contacted the fan. It taught me two things, it hurts a lot to do stupid things, and don't buy fords.


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## tjnamtiw (Mar 28, 2011)

OUCH A neighborhood cat was curled up and sleeping in the fan shroud on my wife's old Camaro when she started it up one morning!!  Talk about a mess  NO fan clutch in those days either.


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## Den-Den (Mar 28, 2011)

You guys are to funny :cheese: , Ignition horror story that comes to mind is 1988 Lincoln Town Car, Leaning over engine with car running and resting arm on the coil pack with a bad plug wire. 80KV+ through arm and out pants zipper, can you say Tazzer :ahhh: !
OK back to my original post, parts in the mail form what mouser tells me, but today when I shut stove down to clean fire pot...turned back on and now red flashing light three times. Suspect thermo coupler may be toast from my overfeeding pot while adjusting my makeshift timer. Need to dig into the forum for how to check that now. -4 degrees here in northern WI this morning, what happened to Spring???


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## tjnamtiw (Mar 28, 2011)

Damn, that was my next story!  I did the same thing on a very hot day leaning over the fender with a bare sweaty (salty) chest.  I felt every revolution of that damn motor!  My wife still won't accept that excuse..............................   %-P


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## TLHinCanada (Mar 29, 2011)

My brother showed how to check the spark on a bike when I was about 8 years old.  He put a screwdriver up the cap and asked me to hold it by the shaft while he kicked it over.  Its an audible method worked well.


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## tjnamtiw (Mar 29, 2011)

TLHinCanada said:
			
		

> My brother showed how to check the spark on a bike when I was about 8 years old.  He put a screwdriver up the cap and asked me to hold it by the shaft while he kicked it over.  Its an audible method worked well.



Nice guy


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## Den-Den (Mar 31, 2011)

Hi all and thanks so much for help solving my problem and the good read about our good old days :coolsmile: I received my parts from mouser electronics today and I had a bit if a time getting the solder out of the holes till I got my tiny drill bit set for torch tips and reamed out the holes, I soldered in the new relay and fuse. plugged it in and shazam, IT WORKS! Thanks again so much and I still love my Quad stove.


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## tjnamtiw (Apr 1, 2011)

That's GREAT NEWS!  That sure was cheaper than buying a new box.  Visit Radio Shack and ask for a 'solder sucker' and/or metal braiding that sucks the molten solder into the braid.  Both work.  Actually, if you are going to get any more parts from Mouser, I'm sure they sell them.

Again, glad your stove is back from the dead.  As soon as my box is out of warranty, I'm cracking that baby open and put spares on the shelf!


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## heat seeker (Apr 1, 2011)

tjnamtiw said:
			
		

> As soon as my box is out of warranty, I'm cracking that baby open and put spares on the shelf!



Good idea - that way, you'll never need them!  :cheese:

That's what happens to me, too! If I have them, I'll never need them. That's my preventative maintenance program. :lol:


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## tjnamtiw (Apr 1, 2011)

heat seeker said:
			
		

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It REALLY works  As long as I can remember where I put them!


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## Den-Den (Apr 1, 2011)

tjnamtiw said:
			
		

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And you won't find them till you order new ones and they arrive!


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## tjnamtiw (Apr 1, 2011)

You have me pegged!! %-P


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## turbotech (Apr 1, 2011)

I try to keep stuff together. If you have some good electrical tape you could tape them right to the control box because they don't take up much space.

Don't forget the 8 pin DIP socket. It makes it a lot easier to replace the chip if it fails again. No soldering.


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## tjnamtiw (Apr 2, 2011)

turbotech said:
			
		

> I try to keep stuff together. If you have some good electrical tape you could tape them right to the control box because they don't take up much space.
> 
> Don't forget the 8 pin DIP socket. It makes it a lot easier to replace the chip if it fails again. No soldering.



10-4 on taping them inside the stove.  I already have my spare adjustable snap switch in there!  Definitely go for the DIP socket.  I always used them when I was building stuff.  I'm a Ham so I built some of my own aux equipment back when I could actually think straight.  Now I'm amazed that I ever dreamed up some of the stuff!


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## SmokeyTheBear (Apr 2, 2011)

tjnamtiw said:
			
		

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You're a ham all right ;-) .


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## tjnamtiw (Apr 2, 2011)

I plead guilty   ;-P


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