# Should I buy hurricane Ties for my new shed so Sandy won't bite?



## Don2222 (Oct 25, 2012)

Hello
I cheaped out and did not use Hurricane Ties on my new shed!!
Should I run down to Home Depot and get some to install this weekend? > > http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/cat...=None&Ntpr=1&Ntpc=1&selectedCatgry=SEARCH ALL

The roof is 2x6s with an LVL in the peak.


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## pen (Oct 25, 2012)

At this point Don, you might as well put 4 on every rafter


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## Frozen Canuck (Oct 25, 2012)

No downside to them, installed properly o/c. Rather large downside to not having them installed when a big blow does occur.


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## BIGDADDY (Oct 25, 2012)

Not if you already bought insurance.


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## MasterMech (Oct 26, 2012)

Finally! Something Don's shed _doesn't_ have....


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## StihlHead (Oct 26, 2012)

You cheaped out on the really cheap stuff? I used them on my 'accessory buildings' here and on my patio covers, one on each end of the rafters where they hang on the bearing walls. We get hurracane force winds here very rarely (about every 10 years on average), but we had tornados here 2 years ago. They called them "freak cyclones." The engineers at the county building permit office recommended them as being way better than toe-nailed framing.

This is a 'perfect storm' brewing, not just a hurricane. They are already calling this one _Frankenstorm_. What your map does not show is that Sandy will meet head on with a huge cold front being fed by the jet stream. You may be far enough north to miss it, and the winds are not likely to be the big issue with this system. NYC winds are only projected to be around 50 MPH. Unless... *cough* The last "Perfect Storm" nor' easter hit on Holloween. The rains will be torrential, with warm tropical air hitting the jet stream fed cold front.

I would imagine that Home Depot is already a freak show there... but I would bang them in at some point, if not now, then sometime sooner than later. Rig your place for floods this time around.


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## nate379 (Oct 26, 2012)

Hard to say without seeing how the shed was designed. LVL for the ridge beam?  Sounds like you have a BIG shed or you get a TON of snow where you live... or you just had an LVL sitting in a corner and wanted to use it!


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## shmodaddy (Oct 26, 2012)

LVL????

Sent from my rooted and eclipse running X2--thanks nitro--  if im posting on here I'm probably supposed to be working! I can't help im addicted to HEARTH.COM!


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## pen (Oct 26, 2012)

shmodaddy said:


> LVL????


 
Laminated Veneer Lumber






pen


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## shmodaddy (Oct 26, 2012)

Ah I see! 

Sent from my rooted and eclipse running X2--thanks nitro--  if im posting on here I'm probably supposed to be working! I can't help im addicted to HEARTH.COM!


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## Don2222 (Oct 26, 2012)

pen said:


> Laminated Veneer Lumber
> pen


 
That is it Pen.

When we built the shed I was thinking of a couple of 2x12s and all the collar ties and then we found for $48 we could get a 10' Laminated Veneer Lumber! No collar ties and supports so it was pretty cheap. I did have to add an extra wall stud on each end to support the LVL down to the ground with a concrete block with 3/4" stone going down in the ground 2 feet under the block. Worked out great because I am 6'3" and I do not hit my head on anything! LOL

See pic of LVL below. Click to Enlarge
See extra wall stud for support.


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## StihlHead (Oct 26, 2012)

I know that armchair quarterbacking is 20:20 with instant replay, but I would have run a vertical 4x4 directly under the engineered beam to the ground rather than the extra wall stud that you used, or a 2x4 nailed sandwhich (same as a 4x4 in strength). Reason being is that there would be no weight transfer of the ridge beam downforce (or weight) required along the top plates. I would also have poured concrete footers at the base.

I had that exact same setup in my original garage retrofit design here as you show in your photo; a dual 2x12 ridge beam and rafters with collar ties. The county engineers said that my existing collar ties were too high and they only work if they are in the lower 1/3 of the rafter spans, so they removed them from the design and made the 2x6 rafter span 12 inch OC from 24 to cover the snow loading requirements (doubled them up). They redesigned my double 2x12 header with an engineered beam (I could have used an LVL for that). They also required a large concrete footer at the base of the ridge beam supports, each one 2 x 2 ft by one foot deep. They were most concerned with the ridge beam and roof weight transfer of that type of design for snow loading. Rather than do all that and re-pour the slab, as the slab was not inspected and hence not permitable, I left the walls and removed the original roof (way under built, and wrong at that) and rotated the bearing walls to the long walls of the building and ran rafters flat and sloped across the narrow span (12 ft). That way the entire long walls are distributing and bearing the roof load, and spreading it out along the perimiter of the slab footings.

I assume that you have toe-nailed the rafters to the bearing wall top plates? That is the place to add the hurricane ties. The advantage of having them is that they are nailed perpendicular to the wood so they hold fast. The better engineer that helped me redesign my 'garage' here had nothing but bad things to say about toe-nailed structures, and he was adamat that I use Simpson ties. And we were not building for hurricane force winds here... just basic structural requirements and snow loading. Snow loading here was based on 30#, you likely have higher requirements there in NH.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Oct 26, 2012)

Don how exposed is your shed?


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## Don2222 (Oct 26, 2012)

StihlHead said:


> I assume that you have toe-nailed the rafters to the bearing wall top plates? That is the place to add the hurricane ties. The advantage of having them is that they are nailed perpendicular to the wood so they hold fast. The better engineer that helped me redesign my 'garage' here had nothing but bad things to say about toe-nailed structures, and he was adamat that I use Simpson ties. And we were not building for hurricane force winds here... just basic structural requirements and snow loading. Snow loading here was based on 30#, you likely have higher requirements there in NH.


 
Hello
Not toe nailed. The 2x6 rafters are notched and sit on the top plate of the walls. That is pretty strong that way. So I was wondering if hurricane ties would add anymore strength?

See pic


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## Don2222 (Oct 26, 2012)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> Don how exposed is your shed?


 
The back of the shed is next to the neighbors 8 foot stockade fence and under his 30 foot pine tree. The right side is behind my 12 foot high and 10 foot wide rhododendron bushes. The left side is 6 feet from my 40 foot OAK tree. The front side is 15 feet from my deck on the south side of the house!

The entire roof is covered with Grace Ice & Water shield under architectural asphalt shingles.

See pic


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## SmokeyTheBear (Oct 26, 2012)

Don2222 said:


> The back of the shed is next to the neighbors 8 foot stockade fence and under his 30 foot pine tree. The right side is behind my 12 foot high and 10 foot wide rhododendron bushes. The left side is 6 feet from my 40 foot OAK tree. The front side is 15 feet from my deck on the south side of the house!
> 
> The entire roof is covered with Grace Ice & Water shield under architectural asphalt shingles.
> 
> See pic


 
I wouldn't worry about it, if it was out in the open it would be a different matter. 

Your more apt to have it damaged by stuff falling on it or being blown into it.


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## begreen (Oct 26, 2012)

Maybe add more led lights.


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## fossil (Oct 26, 2012)

Take the shed down and reassemble it after the storm has passed.  It's the only safe thing to do.


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## Don2222 (Oct 26, 2012)

Hello

Smokey's advice is very good.
Also, I think I may have found a good design answer. In this 2x4 low pitched roof design of the shed in pics below, The rafters rest on the top plate and bird blocks are installed instead of full soffits. Also the low angle in the roof would make it easy for a good wind to lift up the roof.

On my shed it has the standard pitch with notched 2x6s and full ventilated soffits like a house allow the air up under the roof and vent out the peak. There is no easy shear since the soffits are fully enclosed and nailed down.

Thanks all.


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## fossil (Oct 26, 2012)

Hello,
I'm sick of your shed. Sick of it, I say. Domain names cost a mere pittance...why not open up your own website dedicated to your shed?


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## SmokeyTheBear (Oct 27, 2012)

LOL,

A mod being sick of shed posts.  At least it is in the correct section of the forums fossil and even you tree burners likely have something that resembles a shed.


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## woodgeek (Oct 27, 2012)

We need a forum dedicated to sheds....I suggest we call it "The Shed Shed".

Seriously Don, you're not gonna see a gust over 40mph from this thing. You must've gotten a nor'easter that strong since your built it....

Right now, it looks like the thing is coming right over Philly, crickey !!


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## SmokeyTheBear (Oct 27, 2012)

woodgeek said:


> We need a forum dedicated to sheds....I suggest we call it "The Shed Shed".
> 
> Seriously Don, you're not gonna see a gust over 40mph from this thing. You must've gotten a nor'easter that strong since your built it....
> 
> Right now, it looks like the thing is coming right over Philly, crickey !!


 
It is also sucking in so much dry air it may just dry up and blow away like the leaves see: http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/goes/east/eaus/flash-wv.html


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## Don2222 (Oct 27, 2012)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> LOL,
> 
> A mod being sick of shed posts. At least it is in the correct section of the forums fossil and even you tree burners likely have something that resembles a shed.


 
Thanks Smokey

I thought this was a very appropriate question since we are expecting a BIG hurricane. I think the design answer I found can help alot of people. They can think about their shed design variations and surrounding area and prepare accordingly. Have a nice weekend. Thanks all for your help


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## ironpony (Oct 27, 2012)

I agree with your decision as enclosed an area it is in it will not see enough wind, I would just like to add hurricane ties prevent uplift, the wind passing over the roof create a low pressure field creating uplift, think airplane wing, it is not neccesarily the wind passing under / through the structure that blows it off.


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## StihlHead (Oct 28, 2012)

Don2222 said:


> Hello
> Not toe nailed. The 2x6 rafters are notched and sit on the top plate of the walls. That is pretty strong that way. So I was wondering if hurricane ties would add anymore strength?
> 
> See pic


 
Not sure what you mean here. Just sitting on top of the top plate? No nails? Notches are pretty typical, though I did not do that on my "shed." Toe nailed means they are nailed into place (with the nails at an angle).


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## jharkin (Oct 28, 2012)

I think I drove by the entrance to Don's shed the other day....


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## Don2222 (Oct 28, 2012)

StihlHead said:


> Not sure what you mean here. Just sitting on top of the top plate? No nails? Notches are pretty typical, though I did not do that on my "shed." Toe nailed means they are nailed into place (with the nails at an angle).


 
Oh, I know what you mean. That is a good question. Thanks. I my friend did the rafters and now that is insulated it is hard to see. I will find out. I think they are toe nailed. That would really eliminate the need for the ties right?


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## Stax (Oct 28, 2012)

This question is answered very easily.  

1.  Hurricane straps are a couple dollars a piece.  
2.  Roof ripping off...not a couple dollars a piece.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Oct 28, 2012)

jharkin said:


> I think I drove by the entrance to Don's shed the other day....


 
That's the entrance to my Bear Cave, you drove to far north .


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## StihlHead (Oct 29, 2012)

Don2222 said:


> Oh, I know what you mean. That is a good question. Thanks. I my friend did the rafters and now that is insulated it is hard to see. I will find out. I think they are toe nailed. That would really eliminate the need for the ties right?


 
Not really... as I said before when the county engineers here reviewed my plans for my remodel, they insisted that I use 'Simpson type' ties rather than toe-nailed wood joints for the rafters and beam joints. I retro-fitted all my rafters here with hurricane ties this summer. The previous toed-nails had held up for 30 years though. No hurricane winds have been recorded here after '62, long before this place was built. This area had lots of tornados recently though they missed this property.


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## StihlHead (Oct 29, 2012)

Stax said:


> This question is answered very easily.
> 
> 1. Hurricane straps are a couple dollars a piece.
> 2. Roof ripping off...not a couple dollars a piece.


 
The hurricane ties he is asking about are a mere 35 cents each at Lowes here. These are the ones I used on my 'man shed':


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## SmokeyTheBear (Oct 29, 2012)

With sirens blaring in the background and backup code police converging on the scene of the possible code crime:

Ok, you with the hurricane ties please pull over to the side of the shed and explain the empty nail holes.


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## Don2222 (Oct 29, 2012)

StihlHead said:


> The hurricane ties he is asking about are a mere 35 cents each at Lowes here. These are the ones I used on my 'man shed':


 
Thanks for your info StihHead and thanks for the pic, I appreciate it!

*What goodies do you have in your "Man Shed" ? I always like getting good ideas!*

I have a microwave for warming the coffee and I am thinking on small beer fridge.


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## Don2222 (Oct 29, 2012)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> With sirens blaring in the background and backup code police converging on the scene of the possible code crime:
> 
> Ok, you with the hurricane ties please pull over to the side of the shed and explain the empty nail holes.


 
No code violation here, I did get a permit for this shed and the inspector signed off on it.

I did spend the last 3 nice warm days paneling the interior of the shed. It may help keep it from racking in wind a little bit. Also looks nice inside!


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## pen (Oct 29, 2012)

Don2222 said:


> thinking on small beer fridge.


 
Thinking of a beer fridge? Thinking of a beer fridge????? A small one?????????? Hell, if I lived in my car, I'd still have a beer fridge!!

After hearth.com has read roughly 2,379 posts regarding this shed, I'm appalled to see that it doesn't even contain the bare essentials for man's survival 

Fail Don, Epic Fail






So, since you are paneling, did you put ties on or not?


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## SmokeyTheBear (Oct 29, 2012)

Don2222 said:


> Thanks for your info StihHead and thanks for the pic, I appreciate it!
> 
> *What goodies do you have in your "Man Shed" ? I always like getting good ideas!*
> 
> I have a microwave for warming the coffee and I am thinking on small beer fridge.


 
Don2222 I was pulling SthlHead over not you it is usually a code no-no to leave unfilled holes in things like hurricane ties and joist hangers, and it is also not a good thing to punch extra holes in them just in case you want to.

I also agree with pen, your shed lacks even the bare essentials for Bruins as well.

No way to keep the brews cold and paneling is so sixties.


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## fossil (Oct 29, 2012)

I'm not quite sure exactly what to call it, but in my way of thinking, this "thing" ceased being a "shed" a long, long time ago.  When will the "shed" be finished (if ever), so that whatever activity was intended to take place inside the "shed" may commence?  At least one Enquiring mind wants to know.


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## Don2222 (Oct 29, 2012)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> Don2222 I was pulling SthlHead over not you it is usually a code no-no to leave unfilled holes in things like hurricane ties and joist hangers, and it ialso not a good thing to punch extra holes in them just in case you want to.
> 
> I also agree with pen, your shed lacks even the bare essentials for Bruins as well.
> 
> No way to keep the brews cold and paneling is so sixties.


 
ok, Thanks Smokey

I was just about to respond, that Rome was not built in a day. I have to do some researching and thinking about where and how to install the beer fridge. Maybe I should start a new thread for that? Also Yes, I do agree that paneling was very popular in the 60's and early 70s. I remember friends and relatives fixing up their basements and installing paneling around here. The house I grew up in had a very un-usable basement so it could not be fixed up! So my current house has a good dry basement and actually too good for paneling. It already was sheet rocked. Therefore, the shed, since it is not tied to a foundation and sheet rock would crack, is just perfect for paneling! I went thru the paneling at Lowe's and after the top 4 sheets had tears from a fork lift, I found some good ones. My buddy said we have to cut some anyhow so ask for a deal on the 4 ripped ones! I got those 4 for $7.00 each !! Then got 5% off with the Lowe's credit card!

Also what Bruins items do you suggest? Actually, I am a big Red Sox fan. Now that I have paneling I can hang some stuff. What do you recommend Smoke?


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## SmokeyTheBear (Oct 29, 2012)

It commenced a long time ago, the shed is the place Don works on stoves and doing it out there keeps the boss from giving him an ear full every time he doesn't get the venting sealed up and smokes up the house  .


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## pen (Oct 29, 2012)

Don2222 said:


> Maybe I should start a new thread for that?


 
I cannot emphasize how much I hope you are joking.


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## fishingpol (Oct 29, 2012)

I hope he is joking about putting Red Sox crap in the shed after this horrible season.  NHL season is starting to circle the drain.


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## Don2222 (Oct 29, 2012)

fossil said:


> I'm not quite sure exactly what to call it, but in my way of thinking, this "thing" ceased being a "shed" a long, long time ago. When will the "shed" be finished (if ever), so that whatever activity was intended to take place inside the "shed" may commence? At least one Enquiring mind wants to know.


 
Yes, Smokey is right. I am testing out the rebuilt stoves in there. It got cold in the shed last winter when the stove was down and I was working on it, so I added insulation in the walls and ceiling. However knocking around with ladders and tools can be hazardous on insulation so mainly just to protect it, I thru up the paneling.


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## Don2222 (Oct 29, 2012)

fishingpol said:


> I hope he is joking about putting Red Sox crap in the shed after this horrible season. NHL season is starting to circle the drain.


 
Well, I am not crazy about alot of that memorabilia stuff. I just need some shelving for storage. Hey, I could post pics of all the stoves I rebuilt. That may be better biz wise.


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## StihlHead (Oct 30, 2012)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> With sirens blaring in the background and backup code police converging on the scene of the possible code crime:
> 
> Ok, you with the hurricane ties please pull over to the side of the shed and explain the empty nail holes.


 
Becasue on the west coast we don't get many hurricanes, and this was the last one of several where I ran out of #9 Simpson nails. I retrofitted the existing toe-nailed rafters with these ties to keep the (what you cannot see) cantilevered rafter ends on the other side of that wall in place while I walk up there. Its overkill, really. The lack of nails in this one is the reason that this one and several like it are not covered over (and I could take this photo of a fully exposed tie). Also this is a non-permit, non-inspected 'accessory building' so you will have to wait while I finish my beer (or 12), Mr. Code Inspector Sir.

Oh, and BTW, the couty code inspector lady was out here to look at this stuff, and I already got my final on all of this, incomplete as it is. She likes my orange cat, and well, if she was not the county code inspector whom I have had to bow to profusely, I would have asked her out on a date.


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## StihlHead (Oct 30, 2012)

Don2222 said:


> Thanks for your info StihHead and thanks for the pic, I appreciate it!
> 
> *What goodies do you have in your "Man Shed" ? I always like getting good ideas!*
> 
> I have a microwave for warming the coffee and I am thinking on small beer fridge.


 
The man sheds are a set of 4 really. Technically they are all 'accessory buildings." All legally under 200 sq. ft. and under 12 feet high. The two attached to the house have half inch sheetrock along the common walls.

Man shed #1 is a tool room with 8 ft bench and 4 ft bench and Gorilla shelves along one wall. It is where keep my tools and chainsaws, as well as where I tune and wax my snow skis. Nothing special, but it has 2 x 4plex GFIC power outlets, a window, and an overhead dual florescent light. No need for a frige, as the kitchen is 3 feet away. It has tiled floors and foam puzzle pieced together foot pads.

Man shed #2 is the hot tub room. It has a 5x6 ft hot tub in there, with French doors, tile floor, and a 4x6 foot X-O sliding window. It has a TV, Stereo, a towel shelf, chairs and clothes hangers. The hot tub is getting fixed, so it is not set up yet. Between Man shed #1 and #2 is a covered open patio area with a pellet grill smoker. Ahem... good eats comes off of that thing.  

Man shed #3 is in the making. It is split by a wall, and one side is open for storing lumber, with racks and hangers. It also doubles as a hanging room for deer/elk. That is where the exposed hurricane tie photo was taken. The other side of man shed #3 has a metal door, a 6x1 window and has just been sheetrocked and textured. I do not know why I textured it, but I did. I have a lot of mud so what the heck. I like doing that stuff. It will be the bigger store room for my kayak gear, auto parts, electrical, plumbing, construction stuff, etc. It will have a table on one wall for setting boxes on, and 2 foot deep shelves along the other 2 walls.

Man shed #4 is the big one, just under 200 sq ft with a roll up garage door and a separate 3 ft metal door to the side of that. It is separated from Man Shed #3 with a 2 hour firewall (a 2x4 stud wall with 2 x 5/8" layers of sheetrock stacked and taped on either side). That has a 3x2 window, a long workbench on one wall, and shelves in the back. It is large enough to park a small Fiat 500 or several motorcycles, or a small tractor. It is what remains of the original garage that was attached to the house and not built under permit, and I was required to remove by the county. So rather than demo it, I converted it into legal accessory buildings. It has exterior and interior lighting, and shop stuff, airless paint sprayer, compressor, saw horses for building projects in the works, and the like.


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## StihlHead (Oct 30, 2012)

Anyone that does not want their shameful Red Sox stuff please send it my way. I will pay postage!

I have been rooting for ex-Sox players Crawford and Scutaro on the Giants.

The BoSox and the Giants have won between them what, 4 of the last 9 World Series? ...not bad.


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## nate379 (Oct 30, 2012)

When I built my shed, I built my trusses based on a print my local hardware store made for me (they build trusses... just were very expensive). Anyhow, I was told per code I needed hurricane ties, one on each end of the truss due to the high winds we get. I'm not sure what sort of wind speed buildings are engineered for, but 50-70mph gusts are quite normal.

When I sheated the outside I made sure I had the sheets "connecting" the walls to the roof end trusses, so in theory it'd have to rip all that off before the roof could go anywhere, but for the $40 extra in ties/nails I decided not to chance it.


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## Don2222 (Oct 30, 2012)

Hello

Well the Frankenstorm is over now and the shed made it thru the 50 MPH winds just fine. Still we had a good posting and great info. If I did it again though I would have used the hurricane ties to play it safe. Thanks all. Good stuff here!


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## SmokeyTheBear (Oct 30, 2012)

StihlHead said:


> Becasue on the west coast we don't get many hurricanes, and this was the last one of several where I ran out of #9 Simpson nails. I retrofitted the existing toe-nailed rafters with these ties to keep the (what you cannot see) cantilevered rafter ends on the other side of that wall in place while I walk up there. Its overkill, really. The lack of nails in this one is the reason that this one and several like it are not covered over (and I could take this photo of a fully exposed tie). Also this is a non-permit, non-inspected 'accessory building' so you will have to wait while I finish my beer (or 12), Mr. Code Inspector Sir.
> 
> Oh, and BTW, the couty code inspector lady was out here to look at this stuff, and I already got my final on all of this, incomplete as it is. She likes my orange cat, and well, if she was not the county code inspector whom I have had to bow to profusely, I would have asked her out on a date.


 

I don't know about you attempted fraternizing with the code police, there must be a law about that somewhere  .

I do hope you understand that we just have to keep people on their toes about code, don't want anyone hurt by something like missing nails etc ...


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## StihlHead (Nov 1, 2012)

Yes, and I am sure that the added cost of using hurricane ties and the full allotment of nails will help stimulate the economy. Of course, the price of building materals is likely gonna go through the roof with all the Sandy damage in NJ and NYC.


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