# The KWH Competition



## southernpine (Jun 20, 2010)

This is to see who is the greenest of green electrical energy wise.  The prize is bragging rights and the stakes are high considering the CO2 generated by most power plants.  Post your kilowatt hours purchased from your electric power company and see who uses the least.  Anyone using solar or wind power to supplement or completely replace their dependence on grid electricity will be at a strong advantage and should be praised for it.  Add qualifiers as you wish. If anyone has suggestions to level the playing field or otherwise improve this thread they are much welcome.

My KWH is at 339.  I hope it goes down soon as my solar cells should arrive any day now.  My qualifier: my house is totally electric except for my wood stove and I'm running the ac in the Mississippi heat. 

P.S.  Qualifier is an excuse in this instance, lol.


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## BrotherBart (Jun 20, 2010)

Looks like you are running a tad below the average Mississippi monthly KWH usage which is 1,135 KWH.


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## begreen (Jun 20, 2010)

To be a fair competition, the playing field should be somewhat equal. In other words, it should include factoring in how many people are in the residence, the size of the home and comparable time periods. When I lived by myself in a little cabin, my kwh was exceptionally low. Well, it was at least until I cranked up the stereo. They had glowing hot tubes back then.


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## Highbeam (Jun 21, 2010)

For what month? In the winter we still bump 1100+ with all electric, family of 4, and an 8' electric hot tub on a patio out back. 1700SF built cheap in 1963.


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## mikeyny (Jun 21, 2010)

547 this past month, lowest it has been all yr. Usually average about 750 or so. Electric stove and dryer are big users. If I cut out the dryer I could get down to 400.And then if we cook out on the grill more, it would be a bit lower. There are only 2 teens plus me here. No cable tv, and only occasional video gaming. We have 3 tvs, but hardly use them. 3000 sf house


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## velvetfoot (Jun 21, 2010)

Two adults.
Fan on insert.  No A/C.
Electric stove and dryer.
Oil hot water heat and domestic.
Well pump.
Two 36" TVs.


Electricity Usage History    
Read
Date Read
Type kwh 
5/28/2010 NYSEG 284     
4/26/2010 CUSTOMER 230     
3/31/2010 NYSEG 291     
2/26/2010 CUSTOMER 286     
1/29/2010 NYSEG 393     
12/30/2009 ESTIMATED 297     
11/25/2009 NYSEG 267     
10/29/2009 CUSTOMER 330     
9/25/2009 NYSEG 215     
8/29/2009 CUSTOMER 278     
7/28/2009 NYSEG 294     
6/28/2009 CUSTOMER 261     
5/28/2009 NYSEG 308     
4/24/2009 CUSTOMER 274     
3/26/2009 NYSEG 263     
2/25/2009 CUSTOMER 294     
1/29/2009 ESTIMATED 392     
12/26/2008 CUSTOMER 209     
12/1/2008 NYSEG 365     
10/28/2008 CUSTOMER 262     
9/26/2008 NYSEG 281     
8/27/2008 CUSTOMER 245     
7/29/2008 NYSEG 308


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## jharkin (Jun 21, 2010)

Lowest I've seen in the last year is about 500, peak last august at 900 with 3 window AC running all the time. Average around 700 i guess.

1400ft2 very old poorly insulated house.  Gas heat/HW, electric dryer and stove. Just the 2 of us. 

I do have mostly CFLs and am careful about turning lights off, but we still find it hard to keep it under 500KwH. The 46" LCD, my wifes love of cranking the AC down to 68 in the summer and the 24/7 dehumidifier in our old damp stone basement are the big culprits for us....

~Jeremy


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## Slow1 (Jun 21, 2010)

Very hard to "normalize" such a thing.  However if one were to start a competition I would suggest that it could be fun to see who could reduce their 12 month average the greatest in the next year (could be a year to year running game).  By making it a 12 month average you eliminate heating/cooling cycles (those in cooler climates have to heat more which may or may not involve more electric but they may use more lights).  By using the decreased usage year over year as the comparison (as a percentage) the competition emphasizes improvements rather than raw numbers - someone in a smaller home may well have an advantage in raw numbers but likely doesn't have much of an advantage in terms of % improvements eh?.  The only ones with a significant advantage in this "rule set" of course are those who have yet to make much in the way of improvements.  I for one would be at a disadvantage - we've already picked all the "low laying fruit" in this area I'm afraid.

We are in a somewhat larger home - about 2500sqft living area (not including basement that is partially finished) with family of 6.  Electric for stove and drier, oil boiler for hot water, forced air for A/C and heating (if not using the stove).

Average 7/08-6/09 = 691 Kwhr/mo
Average 7/09-6/10 = 554 Kwhr/mo

If only I could afford solar panels - short of that I'm not sure what else we can do to reduce our usage.  We've moved to CFL (or just FL in some cases), trained the kids to turn off lights quite well, rarely use the clothes dryer (we do many loads of laundry btw - kids are 8,6,4 and <1 year old), and try to avoid use of the A/C by keeping tabs on the weather forecast etc.  We do have a freezer in the basement - but we do use it (not just a long term storage box) so I believe it is justified.

Anyway I like the idea of this thread, I've often wondered just how well we do compared to others, but frankly I have no idea how to compare us to others as everyone is so unique.


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## mayhem (Jun 21, 2010)

I sually hover in the 500-550 kwh per month range.  I've never seen 700 in the 7 years since I built the house, seen in the 400's but rarely.  In the winter you've got more lights on for more hours and the boiler uses electricity to operate...or you run a couple fans to move wood heat around and the humidifiers.  In the summer you have fans running to cool you off and the fridge works overtime.

Can't imagine how you guys are getting down in the 300kwh ranges.  Remarkable.

Family of 3 (me, wife, 7yr old daughter), cfl's everywhere.  1750 sq foot log cabin built in 2002/3.


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## Slow1 (Jun 21, 2010)

My best on record was 415, worst was around 1250 (a couple years ago).  We have someone in the house all day every day.  This makes a big difference I think - if we didn't have the house occupied during the days then we would adjust our cooling needs in the summer (i.e. temps set higher during daytime to reduce A/C) and certainly would use less lighting.  Winter heating needs would be reduce as well - so less electric to move heat around (fans).

One of the big areas we reduced our electric draw was in reduced computing.  We used to have several computers that ran 24/7.  We now keep one notebook system 'at the ready' but it is in standby or sleep mode much of the time.  Running around with a 'kill-a-watt' was an eye opener to say the least.


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## BrotherBart (Jun 21, 2010)

I had us down to a base load of fifteen to eighteen KWH per day for a long time. All electric house with a well. When the 90 degrees temps popped up way early this year I decided that I am not going to sweat in this house and turned the A/C loose. We will probably be cooking off thirty KWH a day till September and I don't care. Cool air is my birthday present to me this year. And the electric co-op is applying for a rate increase next month. Over the years we have brought our usage down to around a quarter of what it used to be. But the bill has been within a few bucks of the same the whole time due to the rate increases.


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## peakbagger (Jun 21, 2010)

So do I get credit for negative watt hours? This the time of the year when I sell back to the utility, they send me a letter with the credit for the billing period, last months bills was negative 11 KWH. Unfortunately their computer doesnt deal well with negative watts so on their watthour comparision it shows that I used 386 KWH per day last month!. I end up burning the credit in the first few months of winter so at some point I do have to buy some.


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## Slow1 (Jun 21, 2010)

BrotherBart said:
			
		

> I decided that I am not going to sweat in this house and turned the A/C loose. We will probably be cooking off thirty KWH a day till September and I don't care.



I can't agree with that more.  We have A/C as well - I made an effort to get a reasonable efficient system and we maintain it (i.e. change filters).  Whatever energy reduction efforts we make we keep in mind that comfort and utility are still part of what we desire in life.  When it gets hot (or humid which is what gets to me more than the heat alone) we turn it on and use it.  That's what it is there for eh? 

Waste, however, is what we strive to reduce and/or eliminate.  It has been interesting to discover how much energy we've been able to avoid using though in ways that we have not particularly noticed or missed.  Yes, hanging clothes vs putting them in the electric dryer takes longer and is less immediate, but we've gotten faster at hanging and don't really mind it.  But we don't notice the different bulbs and certainly don't miss the lights on in rooms we aren't using or computers turned on when nobody is around.  On the strange end - turning the temp in the fridge up a couple notches saved a surprising amount of electricity and NOBODY could tell the difference in the house (nothing spoiled any sooner).

Back to the point though - one should enjoy what modern conveniences can give us and those do take energy to provide.  However, I'll get on the kids for leaving the door open and cooling the outside in the summer!


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## Slow1 (Jun 21, 2010)

peakbagger said:
			
		

> So do I get credit for negative watt hours? This the time of the year when I sell back to the utility, they send me a letter with the credit for the billing period, last months bills was negative 11 KWH. Unfortunately their computer doesnt deal well with negative watts so on their watthour comparision it shows that I used 386 KWH per day last month!. I end up burning the credit in the first few months of winter so at some point I do have to buy some.



So you are generating more than you use in the summer - I'd love to be there!

What is your actual consumption each month though?  Do you have a way of knowing or do you only know your net (consumed - generated) number?


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## BrotherBart (Jun 21, 2010)

Back ten or eleven years ago the heat pump went belly up. It was only used for A/C in the summer since we heat with wood. To get the place cooled down till I could get a repair guy out I picked up a couple of small window units and installed them. On up stairs and one down. Voila. The upstairs was now cool without freezing the downstairs. Something that always bugged me. And the electric usage in summer dropped like a rock. So we just never got the heat pump fixed. And at the end of the season two years ago I bought out the remaining four $170 window units at Target for thirty five dollars apiece and put them in the basement for spares.

On the thing of looking at year to year changes, I have every month from early 2006 in a spreadsheet that I update when I pay the bill and the daily for the last three years since I got the Blueline Power Monitor. It is painful to walk by and see the monitor when that water heater kicks in.


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## peakbagger (Jun 21, 2010)

I have pretty primitive monitoring systems on my two small PV systems. One has a blinking light and a hobbs type meter that tracks cumulative generation since 2002. The other system has a built in KWH meter and also saves the current KWH per day and the instanteous wattage output but resets itself everyday except for the cumulative since the inverter was turned on. . I dont have a overall "sell" meter.  THe cost for the moitoring packages are pretty steep and make the payback even worse for the system. Evne with federal and state rebates PV does not have great payback especially if you pay to have it installed. My friend has 3.8 KW system and he is into treord keeping, he manually writes down the daily wattage and meter readings every day (he has been keeping track of the daily temps at his house for more than 25 years) . Havng fancy monitoring is real great for a few months but eventually it becomes like any other appliance and most folks ignore it. I do admit ithat I miss the old spinning disk electric meter, it was real evident when I turned on a high load and the meter started cranking in the opposite direction. The new digital meters that the utility installs are far less interesting. 

Where I see a big difference is when I am out of town for work in the summer. About the only thing I leave on is a cable modem and my refrigerator. I leave my boiler off all summer and have  a PV powered solar hot water system, so I dont have a standby heating load during the summer even when I am home.


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## BrotherBart (Jun 22, 2010)

I still do not believe that there has ever been a cost positive watt of current generated by solar energy.  A shame, but just a fact.


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## begreen (Jun 22, 2010)

Old skewl. Given the 20+ yr lifespan of a good panel I find that hard to believe unless this refers to panels built for NASA. Research seems to show the return on energy invested is not too bad.  

http://www.solarbus.org/documents/pvpayback.pdf

From Wikipedia:

"Energy payback time and energy returned on energy invested

The energy payback time of a power generating system is the time required to generate as much energy as was consumed during production of the system. In 2000 the energy payback time of PV systems was estimated as 8 to 11 years[58] and in 2006 this was estimated to be 1.5 to 3.5 years for crystalline silicon PV systems[59] and 1-1.5 years for thin film technologies (S.Europe).[59]

Another economic measure, closely related to the energy payback time, is the energy returned on energy invested (EROEI) which is the ratio of electricity generated divided by the energy required to build and maintain the equipment. (This is not the same as the economic return on investment (EROI), which varies according to local energy prices, subsidies available and metering techniques.) With lifetimes of at least 30 years[citation needed], the EROEI of PV systems are in the range of 10 to 30, thus generating enough energy over their lifetimes to reproduce themselves many times (6-31 reproductions) depending on what type of material, balance of system (BOS), and the geographic location of the system.[60]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photovoltaics


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## Slow1 (Jun 22, 2010)

Very interesting info there BeGreen.  I never actually had considered the energy required to mfg vs energy generated by the panels.  Good info to know.  

Of course I've done the economic analysis for installation at my own home and for me it still just doesn't work out well no matter how I try to justify/rationalize it.  I'm very much into reducing my family's overall energy impact on the world but it has to make economic sense.  Even with the rebates available to us it just doesn't make for a reasonable investment - rather it becomes more of an expensive statement of some sort.

I do hope that someday there will be a breakthrough of some sort that will allow the price to fall enough to bring the volume up to support lower costs (the great chicken/egg problem?) so more of us can jump in and put up solar arrays.  I happen to have a great roof for it - when I had a company come out to take measurements the comment was that it was almost dead center of their ideal range in terms of orientation for our local.  Of course we have a little bit of shade from a neighbors tree (hmm... I could help with that if necessary eh? heh).  Oh well, plenty of time before prices fall enough to allow us to afford an array.  If the economic payback doesn't fall within 7 years I'm not getting my wife to even seriously consider it - that is a really tough sell and it won't happen anytime soon eh?

Conservation has been much less expensive and provided a higher ROI so far.  We'll keep investing in this area for a bit longer - not nearly as exciting as panels, but it works.


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## boostnut (Jun 22, 2010)

My usage seems to be very inconsistant. Last month was 334 & the highest I've has in the past year was 875kwh. That was during a cold snap here from mid december thru mid january. Overall average for the past 12 months is right at 600. Room for improvement I know but not bad considering the situation (60 year old 1400 sq. ft. ranch). AC runs a lot, its humid here. I've replaced half of the windows and should have the rest done this year. Attic needs more insulation, there is about 8" of the pink stuff up there. Cooking indoors this time of year really jacks up the usage as does the abundance of humidity we've had. The basement dehumidifier runs, and runs, and runs....... Oh well, good thread. Made me more aware of my usage and gives me something to reference after future improvements.


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## TMonter (Jun 22, 2010)

Our average usage for electricity is between 570 and 700 kWH but we have 6 people in our household and we use cloth diapers not disposables so the laundry usage is high.

Hot water is gas which averages about 26 therms a month.


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## boostnut (Jun 23, 2010)

"we use cloth diapers not disposables "

Wow, this 33 year old couldn't imagine trying that. We've got a 5 week old that can go thru well over a dozen diapers per day. Not that its any of my business but why are you using cloth?


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## DBoon (Jun 23, 2010)

I'll toss my hat in the ring...

1250 square foot house, well-insulated.  Married, no kids. 
No AC
Electric hot water
Oil heat with radiators (pump for water circulation during heating season)
Electric range/stove
Front loader washer
Energy star refrigerator
Clothesline for 99% of drying (dry inside in the winter by woodstove)
No phantom loads (Kill-a-Watt)
One TV, not watched too much

During the summer, average of 400 kWh per month
During the winter, 550 kWh per month 

Difference between winter and summer is that incoming cold water supply to water heater is colder and we probably also use more hot water in the winter, plus the circulation pump for heating is running in the winter.


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## begreen (Jun 23, 2010)

boostnut said:
			
		

> "we use cloth diapers not disposables "
> 
> Wow, this 33 year old couldn't imagine trying that. We've got a 5 week old that can go thru well over a dozen diapers per day. Not that its any of my business but why are you using cloth?



Because it's recyclable. Disposable diapers make up a lot of what is dumped into landfills. This is really unnecessary with high quality diaper services available.


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## jharkin (Jun 23, 2010)

I'm very impressed the low numbers some of you are able to achieve. I know we are probably above average in our usage but I think the only way I'd be able to hit the kind of numbers some of you do (< 400)  would be to turnoff the basement dehumidifier altogether. Not going to do that as my house had a powder post infection years ago and the basement is very damp so I dont want to risk a reinfection or dry rot setting in. (old house, built loooooong before treated lumber)


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## TMonter (Jun 23, 2010)

boostnut said:
			
		

> "we use cloth diapers not disposables "
> 
> Wow, this 33 year old couldn't imagine trying that. We've got a 5 week old that can go thru well over a dozen diapers per day. Not that its any of my business but why are you using cloth?



Three things:

1) Cost, regardless of what people say cloth is tons cheaper than disposables figured over the length a child is in diapers. We figure we spent $5-600 on fitted cloth diapers and about $10-15 a month on detergent and laundry to clean them. These fitted diapers last through 2-3 children and about 4 years.

Figure what you spend per month on diapers and compare the two.

2) Trash/recycling we don't like the idea of having landfills full of diapers and the chemical they contain.

3) Diapers contain nasty chemicals to wick moisture away from your child. Who knows what kid of hard these chemical actually do even if they are deemed "safe".


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## DBoon (Jun 24, 2010)

Tough to run a dehumidifier and heat with hot water and be under 400 kWh/month.  But if you don't heat with hot water but still run a dehumidifer, it is very possible. 

Hint on the dehumidifier - I was amazed how much less efficient the smaller dehumidifiers were.  If you pull out the drain bucket, you can usually see the efficiency in liters/kWh.  The largest model is the most efficient.  If you buy that and just run it straight for 8-10 hours/day (overnight even if you have off-peak electric rates), then you can still get the job done with less electricity.


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