# Tacoma



## walhondingnashua (Sep 25, 2018)

I am interested in one of the new Toyota Tacomas.  I had an extended cab 2003 ranger for a long time, but had to trade it in when I had my son.  I've had a 2010 F150 extended cab with a 5.5 ft. bed and have had zero complaints.  It is getting up there in miles so I am looking into a replacement.  I have finished building my house and most of my need for a full size truck is gone (If I needed one every now and then I can borrow).  I've wanted to go back to a smaller truck for many reasons (better gas milage, smaller overall size and cheaper than a full size).  I have always been a huge fan of the tacomas.  They seem to run literally forever.  I drive on a lot of gravel and live in Ohio so there is a lot of salt.  My F150 is rusting bad, but my in-laws tundra (same age and similar driving conditions) doesn't have a spot of rust.  
My concerns are with space for the driver.  I am 6'4" and I fit ok in my ranger.  I also fit well in my wife's subaru ascent but have not had much space in some trucks.  I also don't think just test driving once will let me feel how comfortable it is long term.  
My second concern is if the new tacomas are built like the old ones.  Do they still run forever and take abuse?  I have a 4x8 trailer that I already haul wood on so the bed size isn't a problem.  I want it to be a 200,000 mile plus truck.  What are people's experiences with the tacomas?


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## bholler (Sep 25, 2018)

If you dont need to haul allot of weight i love tacos.  But honestly the colarado ram 1500 ridgeline and f150 all beat them in mpg.  And base models of colarados are cheaper than tacomas.  That being said the differences are minimal.  As far as reliability they are all pretty reliable now.  Some people have had geat experinces with some while others have had horrible with the same.  Just get what you like and what fits your needs.


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## Sean McGillicuddy (Sep 25, 2018)

I retired my 2008 Taco with over 336,000 miles.. great truck.. I had a plow and I used it to tow a two horse bp trailer..


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## Lakeside (Sep 25, 2018)

I am on my third Toyota Tacoma.  The last two ( bought used ) were covered under the frame rust warranty.  Advise you to review frame rust issues and them. Also as others have mentioned gas miles maybe worth reviewing to. Yes - all were reliable and took the abuse well as I am not easy on a truck.

Would I buy another ? -- maybe but this rust frame issue is a concern.  I think I can get a bigger truck with better mileage for my money


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## bholler (Sep 25, 2018)

I never owned one to use as a truck.  I bought a few beat up high miles ones to use as offroad toys.  And 2 of the 3 even though they were around 200000 miles just wouldnt die without some serious beating.  One got swamped and seized the motor the other was still running strong but had been rolled over one to many times.  I parted it out for more than i paid for it.

But those were 90s ones i have no idea if they are anywhere near as durable now.


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## greg13 (Sep 25, 2018)

Don't fool yourself on the rust issues. Both tundras & tocos have had frame recalls due to rust issues. That was the reason I bought my 02 tundra, it had a new frame under it. I have had lots of Electrical issues and the rear diff. cover is rusting through, it is a very common problem also. My tundra is at 240k and still runs great but there ARE rust issues.


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## bholler (Sep 25, 2018)

greg13 said:


> Don't fool yourself on the rust issues. Both tundras & tocos have had frame recalls due to rust issues. That was the reason I bought my 02 tundra, it had a new frame under it. I have had lots of Electrical issues and the rear diff. cover is rusting through, it is a very common problem also. My tundra is at 240k and still runs great but there ARE rust issues.


I agree they have issues.  The difference between them and the american trucks is that they did something about it.  Ford dodge and gm all have big rust problems as well that they just ignore.


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## Lakeside (Sep 25, 2018)

bholler said:


> they did something about it



Yes, so far Toyota has bought back trucks , replaced frames and sprayed undercoating on frames..  It seems like there comps are getting smaller with each generation of this issue.  As for fixing the root cause I am not sure they have only time will tell.


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## bholler (Sep 25, 2018)

Lakeside said:


> Yes, so far Toyota has bought back trucks , replaced frames and sprayed undercoating on frames..  It seems like there comps are getting smaller with each generation of this issue.  As for fixing the root cause I am not sure they have only time will tell.


Yes but ford dodge and chevy have done nothing at all.


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## Alpine1 (Sep 25, 2018)

Why not another Ranger? Mine is a great truck, no problems at all in 2 years.


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## walhondingnashua (Sep 26, 2018)

I would love another ranger, if it were like my old one.  But I don't think I will find one with less than 40,000 miles and I still want 4 full doors.  I know they are bringing the ranger back so I will have to see what the options are.


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## Alpine1 (Sep 26, 2018)

It has four full doors. But I think Ford doesn’t sell Ranger trucks in U.S. any more. Good truck anyway, the 2.2 diesel with 160 hp is not thirsty at all.


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## Dobish (Sep 26, 2018)

i loved my 2009 Tacoma... 5 speed manual, with SO MANY CUP HOLDERS, and an arrooooooga horn.


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## festerw (Sep 26, 2018)

bholler said:


> If you dont need to haul allot of weight i love tacos.  But honestly the colarado ram 1500 ridgeline and f150 all beat them in mpg.  And base models of colarados are cheaper than tacomas.  That being said the differences are minimal.  As far as reliability they are all pretty reliable now.  Some people have had geat experinces with some while others have had horrible with the same.  Just get what you like and what fits your needs.



Something to consider though is that the Taco manages similar MPG without cylinder deactivation, start/stop tech, electric assist, or turbos.  Not saying there's anything wrong with the tech but it's still fairly new.



Lakeside said:


> Yes, so far Toyota has bought back trucks , replaced frames and sprayed undercoating on frames..  It seems like there comps are getting smaller with each generation of this issue.  As for fixing the root cause I am not sure they have only time will tell.



The issue was supposedly the frames were incorrectly treated by Dana from the factory.  Not sure if they are still making the frames or treating them differently but 2010-up seem to be fine so far.


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## bholler (Sep 26, 2018)

festerw said:


> Something to consider though is that the Taco manages similar MPG without cylinder deactivation, start/stop tech, electric assist, or turbos.  Not saying there's anything wrong with the tech but it's still fairly new.
> 
> 
> 
> The issue was supposedly the frames were incorrectly treated by Dana from the factory.  Not sure if they are still making the frames or treating them differently but 2010-up seem to be fine so far.


Well turbos and cylinder deactivation are far from new but they certainly add a level of complexity.


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## jharkin (Sep 26, 2018)

I'm driving a '14 Tacoma TRD/OR double cab...  I love it and it fits my needs.  Having said that:

#1 - it is true that other brands full size trucks get the same mileage and can be as cheap with all the incentives on domestics - but in my case I wanted something that fits in my garage, and I trust Toyota mechanical reliability

#2 - The rust was a *huge* issue. I have a friend who had 2 Tacos in a row bought back.  And the problem is that the frames where rusting from the inside out in the fully boxed forward section and sometimes it was not easy to see until it got bad.   The later models, including mine, have more cutouts for drainage in that area and so far I havent heard of any rust recalls for my year - but I watch it like a hawk, and have got into the habit of spraying fluid film on the frame annually.

#4 Not everybody likes the composite bed.  It cant ever rust but I have heard of people breaking it, particularly the tailgate liner.  Ive never had a problem and I jump on the tailgate with all of my 220lb, FWIW.

#5  If you plan to do serious offloading you cant beat a TRD/OR Taco.   Same 4x4 and traction control as FJ's are legendary for. One thing I like is that they don't have that low front damn like the Colorado does so you can barrel thought 2 foot snowbanks like they are not there  

#6 The latest generation changed a LOT.  The old tank of a 4.0/5sp  (still uses old fashioned copper spark plugs!!)   was replaced with a direct injection 3.5 & 6AT...  Improves the mileage but some reviews don't seem to like it so much.  But they also added some more flexibility to the 4x4 modes and finally update the interior so it doesn't look like 1995 anymore  . And added lots of little things everybody else has had forever like automatic climate and a locking tailgate.    Reliability report from Truedelta, edmunds etc seem to indicate that quality has dropped off a little... Or maybe its just that everyone else is finally catching up to Toyota...


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## walhondingnashua (Sep 26, 2018)

jharkin,
You stated that you are 220lbs.  Please don't take this personal lol, but you are a "larger person." Are you tall and if so, do you feel like you have plenty of room in the drivers seat?  I am 6'4", 180. I like having space to adjust how I am sitting, especially when taking longer trips, which I will in this truck.  I don't like feeling crowded.  My Ranger had just enough space.


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## festerw (Sep 26, 2018)

bholler said:


> Well turbos and cylinder deactivation are far from new but they certainly add a level of complexity.



True I guess I should have went with new to being mass produced in all models, there has definitely been some growing pains.


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## greg13 (Sep 26, 2018)

The new Ranger will be out in 2019, It will have an Ecoboost motor & 10 speed tranny. From what I have seen Ford is not really giving out exact specs. yet but it looks like it will have around an 8000# tow rating. The pictures I have seen show a full 4 door cab available.


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## Alpine1 (Sep 26, 2018)

It’s available here since 2016 but with Diesel engines only. With a slightly different front, it’s sold as Mazda BT50 in other countries.


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## sportbikerider78 (Sep 27, 2018)

Take a look and see what you will be using the truck for.  You might find that a full size Tundra can be had for a little more money.


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## walhondingnashua (Sep 27, 2018)

I would love to buy a ranger again but I have a feeling there won't be any good used ones in my price range when I am ready to buy.  There should be plenty of tacomas.  My second issue with the new ranger is that it is new.  I loved my old one because the engine (4.0) and the rest of it had been around for a long time and the issues had been worked out.  I am sure the new ranger will be great eventually but I don't want to take a risk owning one of the first ones.


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## walhondingnashua (Sep 27, 2018)

I'm a fan of the tundra but I want to downsize after this truck.  I don't have any need for a full size anymore and if I did, I have people I can borrow one from.


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## Poindexter (Oct 2, 2018)

5'10" 180# with a 2015 Access cab here.  6" taller than me might be problematic in a Gen II taco, never sat in a gen III.

When my ranger started having reliability issues I wanted the same truck only bullet proof, and then noticed the taco was switching generations so went ahead and sprung on a 2015, last of the gen IIs.  I am ecstatic with it.  

You might wander over to tacoma world dot com, they have a section dedicated to the gen IIIs, 2016+.  I am a bit leery of the Atkins cycle engine given the owner reviews.  The diesel powered HiLux outside the US is supposedly a terrific all around small truck, but one we are not likely to get to buy soon.

If you want to tow, get the factory tow package under the factory warranty for less than the cost of aftermarket parts before install labor.

My dream truck when I wear this one out would be a diesel tacoma with a man pedal to the left of the brake pedal.  Manual roll up windows.  Tow package, 4wd, good heater.


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## blacktail (Oct 2, 2018)

walhondingnashua said:


> I loved my old one because the engine (4.0) and the rest of it had been around for a long time and the issues had been worked out.



The ranger and explorer trannies have a habit of crapping the bed.


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## Alpine1 (Oct 2, 2018)

Yep, Hilux are highly regarded trucks here. I was about to buy one 2years ago, but decided for the Ranger as it has more equipment for the same money. Higher Hps too with a smaller engine.


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## walhondingnashua (Oct 2, 2018)

Poindexter said:


> My dream truck when I wear this one out would be a diesel tacoma with a man pedal to the left of the brake pedal. Manual roll up windows. Tow package, 4wd, good heater.



That is my dream as well.  We think alike.  

I plan on tow package and TRD package for sure.


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## Weaselfest (Oct 28, 2018)

as far as leg room is concerned, I'm 6' 4" 220 and I don't even have to slide the seat back all the way to feel comfortable in my 2009 4 door TRD Sport. I've overloaded the bed with logs and drywall without problem and would buy another with no hesitation.  Had a tree fall on it during a storm this fall and State Farm was willing to put almost $10K into fixing it, instead of totally it out, which speaks volumes to the value they hold.


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## Mike M. (Oct 29, 2018)

jharkin said:


> I'm driving a '14 Tacoma TRD/OR double cab...  I love it and it fits my needs.  Having said that:
> 
> #1 - it is true that other brands full size trucks get the same mileage and can be as cheap with all the incentives on domestics - but in my case I wanted something that fits in my garage, and I trust Toyota mechanical reliability
> 
> ...


After reading on forums I jumped on the Fluid Film bandwagon here in Wisconsin. Where was this stuff all these years? It is awesome and should be used on any truck that will see winter salt on the roads that is of course if you want it to last. Also my dad is on his 4th Tacoma, I don't think you can find a better "little" truck. They are reliable and capable.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Snagdaddy (Oct 29, 2018)

Almost as good as fluid film is bar and chain oil.   Modify your paint sprayer a bit so no oils are aerosolized, you don't want to breathe that.   When done with modification of the sprayer it should piss a thin stream of bar and chain oil where you want it.   Take the big threaded cap off the front of the sprayer
and throw it away.  Drill out the spray hole a bit but not too much.   Take the cap off the back where the pin is accessed.  Throw this cap away.  Manipulate the pin 
with your fingers to either start the flow of oil or cut it off.

The soon to be released ford ranger in the USA looks ok.  The 2.3 ecoboost 4cylinder engine
should be very strong and durable.     Unfortunately, it doesn't look like a manual transmission will be available.   USA is a truck luxury market
targeting wealthy suburban commuters.


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## TJ1 (Oct 30, 2018)

I owned a 2013 and my brother owns a newer one. Neither of us ever got better than 16 mpg around town and maybe 19-20 on a trip. My 2017 F150 with the 3.5 ecoboost  and 4 wd averages 20 around town and 25 on a trip.
The F150 is light years ago of the Tacoma.


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## walhondingnashua (Nov 2, 2018)

From what it looks like, they are using a new 3.5 in the tacomas.  I am sure this is for MPGs so what experiences are people having with this engine?


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## BIGChrisNH (Nov 2, 2018)

I test drove a beautiful new Tacoma last spring. Too small for me inside and I found the driving position to be odd, but to each their own. I ended up with an F150 with the 5.0 in it and have not looked back. 19mpg combined avg, tons of power, and I can stretch out my long legs if I want.

For what it's worth, my brother has been a Toyota tech for 20 years and will tell you if you ask him that the Tacomas are great trucks but overpriced. He only buys used though so thinks anything new is overpriced. Whatever you get OP post up pics, I love seeing other peoples trucks, chainsaws, woodpiles, and woodsheds.


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## Soundchasm (Nov 13, 2018)

I'm the original owner of an '02 SR5 extra cab 4wd 6-cylinder with camper shell.  W/o looking, maybe 125k miles.  Used engine oil analysis indicates a supremely well-wearing engine.  But I refuse to flog the engine.  Engine oil analysis indicates I can run run Mobil-One Full Synthetic for almost 9k miles.

Having said that, frame-rot is my primary issue.  Had to replace the rear bumper for that reason.  The underside of the truck is ugly.  Definitely affected emergency brake stuff as well as rear brakes.  Exhaust system has not fared well.  Lots of muffler/tailpipe stuff going on.

Paint still looks amazing for a 16 y/o vehicle.  I pull a trailer at almost 6k lbs GVWR every weekend.  15 mpg guaranteed.  Just traveling, I "might" get 20 mpg with a tailwind.  I got TEN YEARS out of a set of Michelin LTX tires, but they dropped MPG by 2 mpg due to weight and rolling resistance.  The camper shell added 2 mpg on the interstate.  Life is crazy, isn't it?  DANA Corp definitely left out the "please don't rust" part of the steel formulation.

I DO NOT WANT A BIGGER TRUCK.   I see these behemoths rolling down the road and wonder "why"?  Are they doing any work?  I want to be able to park, get into my garage, or make a U-turn.

Having owned a few GM vehicles that were worthless after six years, this thing is still a dream after 16 years.  Helper springs, camper shell, better aftermarket struts, camper shell and aftermarket towing package make this the last truck I'll ever buy.  If the cost of putting my body/engine on a new frame is $10K, I'll do that in a minute compared to buying a new truck based on some salesman's pitch.

Yes, the ergonomics of a 6'1" dude aren't great, but it's bearable.  I figure you pay for the cost of repairs in the purchase price, or the actual repairs.  I've been lucky it's the former.


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## bholler (Nov 13, 2018)

Soundchasm said:


> I'm the original owner of an '02 SR5 extra cab 4wd 6-cylinder with camper shell.  W/o looking, maybe 125k miles.  Used engine oil analysis indicates a supremely well-wearing engine.  But I refuse to flog the engine.  Engine oil analysis indicates I can run run Mobil-One Full Synthetic for almost 9k miles.
> 
> Having said that, frame-rot is my primary issue.  Had to replace the rear bumper for that reason.  The underside of the truck is ugly.  Definitely affected emergency brake stuff as well as rear brakes.  Exhaust system has not fared well.  Lots of muffler/tailpipe stuff going on.
> 
> ...



So you regularly tow a trailer 1000 lbs over the towing capacity with a vehicle that has a rusty frame and affected rear brakes???

What could possibly go wrong.


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## firefighterjake (Nov 13, 2018)

I owned two 4Runners, one of which I believe at the time was built on the same frame of the Tacoma.

They were OK vehicles. I did have an issue with the rear axle housing where the rear differential is located rusting through and at the time the only fix was to buy the entire axle housing which was a bit expensive.

Only other concern was the lack of power . . . towing my ATV or sled (not to mention firewood) showed the severe lack of torque in the V-6 motor. Ended up buying a Nissan Titan with a V-8 which was a definite improvement.


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## Soundchasm (Nov 13, 2018)

bholler said:


> So you regularly tow a trailer 1000 lbs over the towing capacity with a vehicle that has a rusty frame and affected rear brakes???
> 
> What could possibly go wrong.



Appreciate the concern.  I get the frame inspected annually or every service event.  Front and rear brakes completely rebuilt with OEM gear by award winning Toyota tech, including the emergency brake system.  Upgraded leaf springs, helper springs and struts.  Class 5 towing stuff throughout.  

The frame rot has certainly caused a lot of grief with the early demise of several mufflers and the emergency brake plus a rear bumper.

The manual says truck and trailer together no more than 7,000 pounds.  Per CAT scales I'm at 6,000 pounds.

And I'm a firm believer that anything can go wrong at any time!  ;-)  

Guess I forgot to add the part about me maintaining it!!


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## bholler (Nov 13, 2018)

Soundchasm said:


> Appreciate the concern.  I get the frame inspected annually or every service event.  Front and rear brakes completely rebuilt with OEM gear by award winning Toyota tech, including the emergency brake system.  Upgraded leaf springs, helper springs and struts.  Class 5 towing stuff throughout.
> 
> The frame rot has certainly caused a lot of grief with the early demise of several mufflers and the emergency brake plus a rear bumper.
> 
> ...


Fair enough.  But you said a 6k trailer before not 6k combined.  That is why i commented


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## Soundchasm (Nov 14, 2018)

bholler said:


> Fair enough.  But you said a 6k trailer before not 6k combined.  That is why i commented



If you see something, say something!    That's why we're here.

I thought I used the term GVWR, but it wouldn't be the first (or the last) time I've used a technical term incorrectly.  I appreciate any and all cautions because I usually am flying by the seat of my pants.


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## bholler (Nov 14, 2018)

Soundchasm said:


> If you see something, say something!    That's why we're here.
> 
> I thought I used the term GVWR, but it wouldn't be the first (or the last) time I've used a technical term incorrectly.  I appreciate any and all cautions because I usually am flying by the seat of my pants.


You did but only in reference to the trailer


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## vtwoodheater (Nov 14, 2018)

If you are going to change full synthetic oil at 9k, don't bother with the price.
Dino oil is good for 10k, I have oil analysis records for 22k miles full synthetic.


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## Soundchasm (Nov 15, 2018)

vtwoodheater said:


> If you are going to change full synthetic oil at 9k, don't bother with the price.
> Dino oil is good for 10k, I have oil analysis records for 22k miles full synthetic.




YIKES!  This is new info.  Of course, I can't possibly evaluate the conclusion of Blackstone Labs.  But they seem very much science based, answer questions, and provide detailed analysis.

I get the additional option for how much additive is left in the oil.

Of course my engine will be 17 years old in Feb.  They always preface results with "your engine" and "your oil" in a class of engines like mine.  I'll guess they're seeing stuff in the oil they'd prefer to not be there.  Perhaps the metals they measure also cause additional wear.  My engine might be a real dog compared to yours for any number of reasons.

Hell, I thought I was pushing it at 5k.  Anything that can remove doubt and result in less oil consumption is worth the money in my book.

The other thing is that I'm pulling a trailer on most weekends.  Sometimes it's 20 miles.  Other times it's 80 miles.  I have another peculiar habit of only using premium, unless the price is insane.  I swear I can tell the difference when the truck drops out of overdrive on the interstate going up the same hills over and over again with the same load.

Who is your lab, if I might ask?  Thanks.


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## blacktail (Nov 15, 2018)

firefighterjake said:


> I owned two 4Runners,
> 
> Only other concern was the lack of power . . . towing my ATV or sled (not to mention firewood) showed the severe lack of torque in the V-6 motor. Ended up buying a Nissan Titan with a V-8 which was a definite improvement.



If you think the V6 lacked power, you should drive my 4runner that has the 2.7 4cyl with an automatic. 263k, 18 years old, conventional oil every 5k, trans fluid every 10k, and still going as strong as ever. 
I've had 5 Toyotas (own 2 currently) and the 2.7 really is a fantastic engine.


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## Stelcom66 (Nov 18, 2018)

A guy in the business next to ours has a (I'm gonna guess) 2005-2006 Tacoma. It was gone for a few months - he drove what appeared to be a new loaner Tacoma. He got his Tacoma back a few weeks ago with a new frame, so it seems Toyota is still making good on the rusted frame replacements. at least with some trucks.

Last winter I test drove a 2005 Tacoma TRD extended cab. It had 192k miles, listed for $7995. I didn't like the 'sport' exhaust, the dealer said they'd reinstall the stock exhaust. Continued looking - then a week and a half later saw it listed for $8995 - asked the dealer what's up with that? They said a couple customers were in a bidding war! As expected, it sold a few days later.They must be good trucks.

At the time I was going to trade in the SUV I had for one vehicle, so I wanted the versatility of an extended cab, smaller truck - but still wanted a truck for hauling firewood. Ended up buying a an older Silverado with an 8' bed and an old Honda Accord. I can get away with high mileage vehicles since I have a company van. If I did settle on one vehicle only a Tacoma would certainly be on the list (preferably with a manual transmission), but they were so hard to find in the price range I had to work with.


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## Chimney Smoke (Nov 18, 2018)

I don't dispute them being good trucks but I couldn't justify spending the money on one.  When I was in the market a few years ago I priced out a  Tacoma and then some full size trucks.  I bought my F150 for less than a Tacoma and it's bigger, more comfortable, can haul and tow more, has a 360 HP V-8 and gets better gas mileage than a Tacoma.


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## Lakeside (Nov 18, 2018)

*Chimney Smoke*,

You make a good point.  All I can say is reliability of the Toyota and high resale value seem to be how some folks justify a Tacoma.  Just sayin & I am open to other options too. Three time Tacoma owner.


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## Stelcom66 (Nov 18, 2018)

Chimney Smoke said:


> I don't dispute them being good trucks but I couldn't justify spending the money on one.  When I was in the market a few years ago I priced out a  Tacoma and then some full size trucks.  I bought my F150 for less than a Tacoma and it's bigger, more comfortable, can haul and tow more, has a 360 HP V-8 and gets better gas mileage than a Tacoma.



Interesting your V8 gets better mpgs than some Tacomas. My Silverado with the 5.3L V8 gets at least as good or maybe even slightly better mpgs than my Honda Pilot did.


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## Manly (Nov 18, 2018)

Stelcom66 said:


> A guy in the business next to ours has a (I'm gonna guess) 2005-2006 Tacoma. It was gone for a few months - he drove what appeared to be a new loaner Tacoma. He got his Tacoma back a few weeks ago with a new frame, so it seems Toyota is still making good on the rusted frame replacements. at least with some trucks.
> 
> Last winter I test drove a 2005 Tacoma TRD extended cab. It had 192k miles, listed for $7995. I didn't like the 'sport' exhaust, the dealer said they'd reinstall the stock exhaust. Continued looking - then a week and a half later saw it listed for $8995 - asked the dealer what's up with that? They said a couple customers were in a bidding war! As expected, it sold a few days later.They must be good trucks.
> 
> At the time I was going to trade in the SUV I had for one vehicle, so I wanted the versatility of an extended cab, smaller truck - but still wanted a truck for hauling firewood. Ended up buying a an older Silverado with an 8' bed and an old Honda Accord. I can get away with high mileage vehicles since I have a company van. If I did settle on one vehicle only a Tacoma would certainly be on the list (preferably with a manual transmission), but they were so hard to find in the price range I had to work with.



In 2017 Toyota replaced the frame on my 2005 Tacoma. It’s a 4 cylinder, 5 speed 4wd extended cab. I keep it in pristine condition but I do use it for real work and occasional heavy hauling. I was amazed how quickly they replaced the frame once they took it in. The dealer said they have 2 guys that have been strictly replacing frames for over 3 years now. I had them replace the front shocks and other wear items on the front end. Frame comes with new leaf springs, brake lines, wiring harness, everything attached to the frame is new on the frame kit from the factory. Cost me one large and it’s like a brand new truck. Funny thing is it cost me $20,000 new in 2005. About 6 months after the replacement the dealership sends me a sale promo offering me $20,000 for trade in on a new truck. Plan on keeping this one till the end of days.


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## Stelcom66 (Nov 18, 2018)

Manly said:


> In 2017 Toyota replaced the frame on my 2005 Tacoma. It’s a 4 cylinder, 5 speed 4wd extended cab.....



If I could have found that - it would be the ideal single vehicle for me, 4 cylinder 4wd, extended cab and especially 5 speed manual. In these parts those are so rare, maybe because everyone wants to keep them. Nice you've got a new frame now. Certainly worth putting the money into that for the other things. Unlike most vehicles it didn't drop thousands in value after driving it new off the lot.


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## Soundchasm (Nov 19, 2018)

Manly said:


> In 2017 Toyota replaced the frame on my 2005 Tacoma. It’s a 4 cylinder, 5 speed 4wd extended cab. I keep it in pristine condition but I do use it for real work and occasional heavy hauling. I was amazed how quickly they replaced the frame once they took it in. The dealer said they have 2 guys that have been strictly replacing frames for over 3 years now. I had them replace the front shocks and other wear items on the front end. Frame comes with new leaf springs, brake lines, wiring harness, everything attached to the frame is new on the frame kit from the factory. Cost me one large and it’s like a brand new truck. Funny thing is it cost me $20,000 new in 2005. About 6 months after the replacement the dealership sends me a sale promo offering me $20,000 for trade in on a new truck. Plan on keeping this one till the end of days.



Oddly, if I'd have taken worse care of my truck it'd be in better shape!!  If I'd kept it outside, the frame would have failed inside the warranty period.  The frame would have been replaced by now and several rust related issues would not have occurred.  Oh, the irony...

I figure you're going to pay for something one way or another.  I concluded that repairs you're not going to need are included in the purchase price.  I bought an '02 and paid it off in '05.  Haven't had a car payment for 13 years.  Probably spend $1k/year in repairs, etc.  Sure, it's a PITA when stuff happens, but "no car payment" sure has ended up with a lot of guitars hanging on my wall.  ;-)

"Power" is a real issue for me.  I wonder where does the gas go?  I don't do burnouts or floor the thing, and it's a great day with the camper shell and a tailwind that I get 20 mpg...  Pulling a trailer or humping firewood is always 15 mpg.

BUT, the paint is nearly flawless after 16 years.  I never owned a GM vehicle where the clear coat lasted six years. Why didn't they make the whole thing out of the paint??

Yes, I would buy my truck again.  And knowing what I know now, I'd take better care of it.


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## Manly (Nov 19, 2018)

Soundchasm said:


> Oddly, if I'd have taken worse care of my truck it'd be in better shape!!  If I'd kept it outside, the frame would have failed inside the warranty period.  The frame would have been replaced by now and several rust related issues would not have occurred.  Oh, the irony...
> 
> I figure you're going to pay for something one way or another.  I concluded that repairs you're not going to need are included in the purchase price.  I bought an '02 and paid it off in '05.  Haven't had a car payment for 13 years.  Probably spend $1k/year in repairs, etc.  Sure, it's a PITA when stuff happens, but "no car payment" sure has ended up with a lot of guitars hanging on my wall.  ;-)
> 
> ...



I was very surprised when they told me my frame failed the test. I do my own maintenance and looked at the frame periodically. Saw rust but nothing that looked too bad in my opinion, but I’m not the frame expert. I will say my dealer had it down pat. Dropped it off Thursday night, ready for pickup Monday after work. Our winters here are real sloppy and they use liquid treatment that eats frames and bodies.


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## Lakeside (Nov 19, 2018)

Manly said:


> my frame failed the test



What year was your truck ?

Were was the frame rotted ?  Any pics?


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## Manly (Nov 19, 2018)

Lakeside said:


> What year was your truck ?
> 
> Were was the frame rotted ?  Any pics?



2005 I purchased new. About 70,000 miles when I got the recall in 2017. No pictures but it didn’t look that bad to me, but then when I was younger I drove old fords and GMs that would literally break frames from rot. Have the new frame about a year and a half now. Still showing all black coating and still has factory labels attached. I’ll snap some celluloid s and post when I get a chance.


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## Soundchasm (Nov 20, 2018)

Lakeside said:


> What year was your truck ?
> 
> Were was the frame rotted ?  Any pics?



When I go in for a frame check, the mechanic goes underneath with a 3 lb hammer and gives the frame a few good whacks under the doors (where they see the majority of frames fail).  If the hammer leaves a good dent or penetrates, then the frame is pronounced DOA.  I honestly don't know if they'll let you drive home...

I joined a Tacoma forum when I found out about frame rot.  For years I'd see pics of tricked out trucks, beautiful paint, aftermarket everything, clearly somebody's pride and joy, with the frame snapped right in the middle.  Frames would fail going up on a lift.  The carnage was amazing.  Guys would go in for emission tests and have their vehicles seized.


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## Lakeside (Nov 20, 2018)

Soundchasm said:


> I honestly don't know if they'll let you drive home...



That was the case with my first frame rust, they wanted the truck right then. I got the 1 -1/2 Kellyblue book deal --- made money on that used truck.

Thanks for the info on were rot most likely shows up.


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## vtwoodheater (Nov 21, 2018)

This Toyota truck thing really confuses me. (Frame rot.)
"Reliable, resale value, capable"  (Frame rot.)
"Best truck I ever owned, MPG's, etc." (Frame rot)


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## Chimney Smoke (Nov 22, 2018)

Nobody can say anything bad about Toyota when it comes to the whole frame replacement situation.  If you live in the north where salt and other liquid treatments are on the roads for 6 months per year every vehicle rusts out.  I do find it amazing they continue to replace frames for free.  No other vehicle manufacturers have done anything close to this, ever.


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## vtwoodheater (Nov 22, 2018)

Body panels rust out after 12 years, not frames.
Toyota has to replace the frames, they would never sell another truck otherwise.


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## festerw (Nov 22, 2018)

vtwoodheater said:


> This Toyota truck thing really confuses me. (Frame rot.)
> "Reliable, resale value, capable"  (Frame rot.)
> "Best truck I ever owned, MPG's, etc." (Frame rot)



My 14 year old Tundra with a new frame under it has less suspension and interior creaks and squeaks than the 2 year old Fords and Chevys we have at work.  That's why people like them, mine just rolled over 190k and has some surface rust on the inner rocker nothing anywhere else.

The frame rot is a big deal but like Chimney Smoke mentioned they've stepped up and repaired them, they very easily could have bought them back instead.  GM 25/3500 trucks have been cracking frames for 30 years and they deny there's a problem so which is better?


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## bholler (Nov 22, 2018)

vtwoodheater said:


> Body panels rust out after 12 years, not frames.
> Toyota has to replace the frames, they would never sell another truck otherwise.


Gm ford and dodge have all completly ignored their rust issues for years and they still sell trucks.  Toyota trucks are not heavy enough for my needs but they have dealt with their problems better than most other companies.


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## vtwoodheater (Nov 22, 2018)

VW, Mazda, Nissan, it doesn't matter.  Everything rusts up here, even Subaru.  GM Ford and Dodge still sell millions of trucks.  At least their frames stay together.


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## Manly (Nov 22, 2018)

When they told me my frame failed, they returned the vehicle and said it was safe to drive until the frame came in. It was a few months anyway before they replaced the frame. I don’t believe they said anything about a buyback. Initially I was upset about the truck failing and needing a frame replacement. I assumed I would have all kinds of problems afterwards. I was also peaved I was putting my own money into it. After all was completed it was/is like a brand new truck. Their workmanship was top notch and much more than just the frame was replaced. I try to get it through the car was often in the winter. These chemicals are killer. I initiated some new upgrades like a heavyweight aluminum tailgate liner and intermittent wiper control. When I purchased this Taco my intent was to have this until my truck days were through. It may just happen.


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## bholler (Nov 22, 2018)

vtwoodheater said:


> VW, Mazda, Nissan, it doesn't matter.  Everything rusts up here, even Subaru.  GM Ford and Dodge still sell millions of trucks.  At least their frames stay together.


Many of their frames dont.  Gm bumpers fall off from rust.  Their brake and fuel lines fail


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## Chemdawg (Mar 6, 2019)

I got new frame on my 2005.
Paid $0 but no buy back offered like on the 1st generation trucks.


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## ole (Mar 20, 2019)

My 03 Taco had some signs of frame rot when I traded it in on my 2014. So far my 2014 frame looks really good but I spray it down every fall with Amsoil HDMP. 2.7 liter auto I get 24 mpg highway 












2014 was the last year for the regular cab $24000 I paid


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## blacktail (Mar 21, 2019)

ole said:


> My 03 Taco had some signs of frame rot when I traded it in on my 2014. So far my 2014 frame looks really good but I spray it down every fall with Amsoil HDMP. 2.7 liter auto I get 24 mpg highway
> 
> View attachment 242539
> 
> ...


The 2.7 is a fantastic engine. Better power and better reliability than the 22re that was so beloved in the pre-Tacoma trucks, with the same or better mpg.


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## Ashful (Mar 21, 2019)

bholler said:


> Gm ford and dodge have all completly ignored their rust issues for years and they still sell trucks.  Toyota trucks are not heavy enough for my needs but they have dealt with their problems better than most other companies.



Frame rust issues?  Never had any on any of my trucks, and I’ve owned one 20 year old Ford, one ten year old Chevy, and one twelve year old Dodge.  The Ford and Dodge both had body rust issues, but neither started until age 10, which I consider acceptable.  The Chevy had a host of exhaust and brake line rot issues from age six until I sold it, but no body rot.

Of the dozens of trucks owned by my various friends and acquaintances, that experience seems to be universal.  The only guys I know with frame rot issues are all driving Toyota, but they still love their trucks.

Personal experiences will vary, we all see too small a part of the national fleet to make many valid conclusions.


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## bholler (Mar 21, 2019)

Ashful said:


> Frame rust issues?  Never had any on any of my trucks, and I’ve owned one 20 year old Ford, one ten year old Chevy, and one twelve year old Dodge.  The Ford and Dodge both had body rust issues, but neither started until age 10, which I consider acceptable.  The Chevy had a host of exhaust and brake line rot issues from age six until I sold it, but no body rot.
> 
> Of the dozens of trucks owned by my various friends and acquaintances, that experience seems to be universal.  The only guys I know with frame rot issues are all driving Toyota, but they still love their trucks.
> 
> Personal experiences will vary, we all see too small a part of the national fleet to male many valid conclusions.


Mid to late 2000 gm trucks have bumpers rusting off the extended and crew cabs have cab rust problems.  They have frame rust issues.  Ours is getting replaced at 98000 because it has a bad frame.  Ford's have body rust problems but not much in the way of frame issues the same with dodge.


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## Seasoned Oak (Mar 21, 2019)

walhondingnashua said:


> What are people's experiences with the tacomas?


 Im sure if you get a new one you will not have as many issues. Frame Rust was the most serious issue on my 1999 but absolutely EVERY toyota tacoma i looked at ,at the time had heavy frame rust. Other issues i had prompted me to get rid of the 6yr old truck in only a year of ownership and 76k on the clock. Like abysmal hauling capacity,rear springs bottomed out with a few hundred Lbs in the bed. Gas leaks, Engine had plenty of power but got poor MPG. Exhaust pipe rot. The final nail in the coffin was a rear main seal oil leak. Im sure they have greatly improved by now but mine was not a real work truck.


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## Stelcom66 (Mar 23, 2019)

ole said:


> My 03 Taco had some signs of frame rot when I traded it in on my 2014. So far my 2014 frame looks really good but I spray it down every fall with Amsoil HDMP..



I'll have to get that Amsoil HDMP.. I have an older truck but I believe the frame is ok, want to keep it that way. Or - maybe there's no benefit at this point. There is some surface rust than is easily scraped off on the bottom in places


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## ole (Mar 23, 2019)

Stelcom66 said:


> I'll have to get that Amsoil HDMP



Wisconsin uses a lot of road salt. My 2014 Taco has been through five winters. The frame shows no rot anywhere. My buddy let’s me put my truck up on his lift then I shoot the frame with two large cans of Amsoil HDMP. They are about $12 a can. I can say it works and is much cheaper and easier to use than Fluid Film. I do it every fall around Thanksgiving. I leave his shop door open while doing so because this stuff can make you goofy in an enclosed space!

edit

I just did a 600 mile road trip mostly interstate and my 2.7 Taco averaged 23.8 MPG for the trip.


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## Stelcom66 (Mar 23, 2019)

ole said:


> Wisconsin uses a lot of road salt. My 2014 Taco has been through five winters. The frame shows no rot anywhere. My buddy let’s me put my truck up on his lift then I shoot the frame with two large cans of Amsoil HDMP. They are about $12 a can. I can say it works and is much cheaper and easier to use than Fluid Film. I do it every fall around Thanksgiving. I leave his shop door open while doing so because this stuff can make you goofy in an enclosed space!
> 
> edit
> 
> I just did a 600 mile road trip mostly interstate and my 2.7 Taco averaged 23.8 MPG for the trip.



i don't even have the luxury of a garage! Or I should say one that could fit the truck. Firewood among other things taking up space. The spray sounds like the way to go. A friend of mine bought another type applied with a brush, he said overalls are essential. I don't have a Tacoma, but if I had to settle for having just one vehicle that would likely be it. I'd go for the 2.7L 4WD and a 5 speed manual, which I know would be a hard drive train to find.

That mpg is very good - my former Subaru Forester didn't do significantly better than that.


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## Soundchasm (May 1, 2019)

Lakeside said:


> That was the case with my first frame rust, they wanted the truck right then. I got the 1 -1/2 Kellyblue book deal --- made money on that used truck.
> 
> Thanks for the info on were rot most likely shows up.



Lakeside, my day finally arrived.  For a few months the ride just seemed slightly "off".  Just doing a routine walk around, I saw the holes in my frame!!  Above the rear wheels on both sides.  Crikey!!  It's Thursday.  My main mechanic was completely covered up.  Shot off to another mechanic at a dealership who looked at it.  He suggested welding.

Had to go play a gig out of town Friday.  Man, if I saw a speed bump it was "recalculating route"...

Well, another friend was able to do some welding on Monday.  We cut plates out of steel and got them welded to healthy metal.  The repair will be stronger than the frame ever was, so I've got a year or two to do a frame replacement.

As I understand it, the frame replacement should be less than $10k.  Say I get it done in 2020.  It will probably last for 15 years???  I'll be the 77 year old "original owner" of a 2002 Tacoma that's 33 years old.  Excluding maintenance, my $23k purchase price plus $10k frame replacement will average out to $1k a year.

The joke factor alone is totally worth the cost!

The holes were more severe than depicted in the photos after I pressure washed all the rotten crap out of there.





Here are the after photos.




I guess I'll ride this thing till the wheels fall off...  Sure can't sell it in good conscience.


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## Seasoned Oak (May 1, 2019)

Soundchasm said:


> Lakeside, my day finally arrived.  For a few months the ride just seemed slightly "off".  Just doing a routine walk around, I saw the holes in my frame!!  Above the rear wheels on both sides.  Crikey!!  It's Thursday.  My main mechanic was completely covered up.  Shot off to another mechanic at a dealership who looked at it.  He suggested welding.
> 
> I guess I'll ride this thing till the wheels fall off...  Sure can't sell it in good conscience.


Thats a death trap. ID be finding another ride while you figure out the best way to suicide it.


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## Soundchasm (May 2, 2019)

Seasoned Oak said:


> That's a death trap. I'd be finding another ride while you figure out the best way to suicide it.



I appreciate your concern and we're here to help each other, so thank you for your perspective.  I am taking it to heart in the way you intended.  None of us would sit idly by if we saw something dangerous.

At the moment, I've got two certified Toyota mechanics and a guy who spends a lot of time at 125-150 MPH who think I'm OK for today.  They got the "eyes-on" perspective and at least 100 years of combined experience.

My intention was to not exceed 12 months with the current solution.  Based on your caution, I'll try to speed up the frame replacement.

Thank you for your honesty in this PC world.


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## Seasoned Oak (May 2, 2019)

Soundchasm said:


> As I understand it, the frame replacement should be less than $10k.  Say I get it done in 2020.  It will probably last for 15 years???  I'll .


Did you consider buying a newer truck for the same 10K. After that frame replacement you would have trouble getting 10K for an 18yr old truck with rusting history. I see a lot of tacomas between 2007 and  2010 for 10K or less.


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## Soundchasm (May 2, 2019)

New ones are around $30k.  It may be my imagination, but trucks these days (including Tacos) just keep getting bigger.  My garage is poured concrete and I sure can't get anything taller.  

There's always the worry about maintenance when buying used.  I've babied the engine and just done the timing belt during a gasket replacement.

I've got the hood guard thingy, bedliner, camper shell, upgraded struts, new brakes all around, upgraded leaf springs, helper springs, 4WD, class V towing package and $1000 worth of new tires.  The darn thing is now exactly what I need.  And I like the color!!  ;-)

I'm not worried about resale, if that makes any sense.  I just want it in tip-top shape.  And the rust problem (not aware they ever solved it) begins to accelerate around 10 years.

My problem is I get emotionally attached to stuff.  When I was doing some work with one mechanic and swapping stories, he said "You don't buy things, you adopt them".  I realized he was right.

I'll get with the frame guy and see what it entails.


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## bholler (May 2, 2019)

Soundchasm said:


> New ones are around $30k.  It may be my imagination, but trucks these days (including Tacos) just keep getting bigger.  My garage is poured concrete and I sure can't get anything taller.
> 
> There's always the worry about maintenance when buying used.  I've babied the engine and just done the timing belt during a gasket replacement.
> 
> ...


I get what you are saying and for you i agree replacing the frame makes sense.  But I personally wouldn't be driving that truck with that frame.  They rust from the inside out so yes you fixed that spot but how many other spots are getting really thin?  Did those Toyota techs tell you not to drive away in the truck with the frame the way it was?  If not I wouldn't trust anything else they said.


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## Seasoned Oak (May 2, 2019)

Soundchasm said:


> My problem is I get emotionally attached to stuff.  When I was doing some work with one mechanic and swapping stories, he said "You don't buy things, you adopt them".  I realized he was right..


 I know what yur saying.
I tend to keep things way longer then the average person,but only if its very dependable and solid. My rust bucket tacoma was the only vehicle i ever had that i dumped after only 1 year. After all its just a 4k Lb hunk of glass, metal, and rubber. I was mostly alarmed at the speed at which it was disintigrating. I got 9k for mine but it was only about 8 yrs old. Paid around 9.5 a yr earlier.


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## Soundchasm (May 5, 2019)

bholler said:


> I get what you are saying and for you i agree replacing the frame makes sense.  But I personally wouldn't be driving that truck with that frame.  They rust from the inside out so yes you fixed that spot but how many other spots are getting really thin?  Did those Toyota techs tell you not to drive away in the truck with the frame the way it was?  If not I wouldn't trust anything else they said.



I appreciate your input.  I was practically begging the most experienced tech to quarantine my truck.  He wouldn't do it.  He kept saying "that  location" wasn't unsafe.  He was the guy that suggested the welds.  When I asked how long would it last, he said he did his truck "a long time ago" and he was still driving it.

The frame appears to be C-channel, and I've taken a 3-lb hammer to every inch (my BF hammer).  The only deformation I got was at the holes, and we found healthy steel and bound to it.

I wish I knew what the true answer is, but I'll get this done in the next 12 months.  I think I'll be OK for that time period.


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## festerw (May 5, 2019)

FWIW if you had the frame treated by Toyota it may be worth a call to Toyota corporate.  There's been some instances of them giving a pretty decent discount on a new truck.

If you're interested in that of course.


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## bholler (May 5, 2019)

Soundchasm said:


> I appreciate your input.  I was practically begging the most experienced tech to quarantine my truck.  He wouldn't do it.  He kept saying "that  location" wasn't unsafe.  He was the guy that suggested the welds.  When I asked how long would it last, he said he did his truck "a long time ago" and he was still driving it.
> 
> The frame appears to be C-channel, and I've taken a 3-lb hammer to every inch (my BF hammer).  The only deformation I got was at the holes, and we found healthy steel and bound to it.
> 
> I wish I knew what the true answer is, but I'll get this done in the next 12 months.  I think I'll be OK for that time period.


Good enough.  I didn't think their frames were c channel.  If they are that changes everything because you can properly inspect it.  In that case ignore my previous comments lol.


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## Soundchasm (May 5, 2019)

festerw said:


> FWIW if you had the frame treated by Toyota it may be worth a call to Toyota corporate.  There's been some instances of them giving a pretty decent discount on a new truck.
> 
> If you're interested in that of course.



I did get the free undercoating.  That took my '02 from 2012 to 2017 under warranty.  What I should have done in hindsight was find a saltwater beach and start parking on it in 2015.


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## Soundchasm (May 5, 2019)

bholler said:


> Good enough.  I didn't think their frames were c channel.  If they are that changes everything because you can properly inspect it.  In that case ignore my previous comments lol.



I can't be 100% certain about the entire frame, but the part we fixed was C channel.  Thanks.  I'll look into it.


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## walhondingnashua (Nov 6, 2020)

I know this is an old thread that I started but my search has started back up and is more serious.  These trucks were very high priced in the last few months but seem to be coming back down.  As I shop around, there doesn't seem to be a price difference between the TRD and SR5 used tacomas.  Are the fox shocks really worth it along with?  I don't really care about the upgraded look or cosmetics, just durability and performances differences.


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## ABMax24 (Nov 6, 2020)

walhondingnashua said:


> I know this is an old thread that I started but my search has started back up and is more serious.  These trucks were very high priced in the last few months but seem to be coming back down.  As I shop around, there doesn't seem to be a price difference between the TRD and SR5 used tacomas.  Are the fox shocks really worth it along with?  I don't really care about the upgraded look or cosmetics, just durability and performances differences.



The fox shocks should ride nicer, particularly offroad, that being said they are a more costly maintenance item. 50k miles is typically what people get out of them, at that point they either need to be replaced or rebuilt, neither of which is an overly cheap endeavor. But I think you can replace the fox shocks with standard ones when the time for replacement/rebuild has come.


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## walhondingnashua (Nov 6, 2020)

ABMax24 said:


> The fox shocks should ride nicer, particularly offroad, that being said they are a more costly maintenance item. 50k miles is typically what people get out of them, at that point they either need to be replaced or rebuilt, neither of which is an overly cheap endeavor. But I think you can replace the fox shocks with standard ones when the time for replacement/rebuild has come.


Thank you.  That is exactly the type of information I am looking for.  Upgrades are nice, but replacing them can be pricey too.


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