# Cost of pellets vs oil



## bdaoust (Nov 7, 2013)

Does this look accurate?

Given : 

1 bag of pellets = 2.5 gals of oil 
Avg bag costs 4.68 per bag
Current price of oil  = 3.38 gal 
Size of tank = 275 

The  tank filled represents 110 bags of pellets (275 / 2.5) 

110 bags * 4.68 per bag = $514.18 per "tank" of pellets. 

1 tank oil is $929.50 ($3.38 * 275 gallons)

Savings - *$415.32* ($929.50 - $514.18) 

I know this doesn't account for efficency - meaning how fast the tank of oil goes before the 110 bags of pellets.  I do know that on cold days, I can easily burn 2 bags a day keeping the house (1,200 sqft) at 70 deg 24/7.  I haven't tested using just oil at 70 deg though


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## Bioburner (Nov 7, 2013)

Close enough. I paid 3.76 for early season pellets. Propain as of yesterday was 1.79 per gallon, about 91k btu/gallon


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## PassionForFire&Water (Nov 7, 2013)

Close enough

275 gallons of oil * 138,000 BTU/gallon = 37,950,000 BTU

1 Lb of wood pellets is say 8,000 BTU/Lb

37,950,000 / 8,000 = 4744 Lbs or divided by 40 Lbs/bags = 119 bags

119 bags * $4.68 = $557

275 gallons of oil * $3.38 = $930

Savings 930-557=$373
or 60% savings


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## webbie (Nov 7, 2013)

Not perfect, but fill in our calculator for a rough guess....

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/fuel_cost_comparison_calculator/


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## SmokeyTheBear (Nov 7, 2013)

PassionForFire&Water said:


> Close enough
> 
> 275 gallons of oil * 138,000 BTU/gallon = 37,950,000 BTU
> 
> ...



Savings - 

$373/$930  x 100 = 40.1 %

Your cost was 60% of what it was that however is not your savings.


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## PassionForFire&Water (Nov 7, 2013)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> Savings -
> 
> $373/$930  x 100 = 40.1 %
> 
> Your cost was 60% of what it was that however is not your savings.


 
I was never good at math


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## Bioburner (Nov 7, 2013)

And how many of us keep the same bone chilling temps burning pellets that we did with dino juice?


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## rayttt (Nov 7, 2013)

Bioburner said:


> And how many of us keep the same bone chilling temps burning pellets that we did with dino juice?




I keep it much warming using the pellets.


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## Harvey Schneider (Nov 7, 2013)

PassionForFire&Water said:


> Close enough
> 
> 275 gallons of oil * 138,000 BTU/gallon = 37,950,000 BTU
> 
> ...


It all looks good except that the % savings is the $ savings divided by the oil cost. The result is 40% savings. You are saving 40% of the cost of the more expensive fuel.
The result might be a little lower if you have to include delivery cost of the pellets.
As for efficiency, I think that efficiency of a  modern pellet stove is close enough to that of an oil boiler that it can be ignored for the purpose of comparison.


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## john193 (Nov 7, 2013)

Harvey Schneider said:


> It all looks good except that the % savings is the $ savings divided by the oil cost. The result is 40% savings. You are saving 40% of the cost of the more expensive fuel.
> The result might be a little lower if you have to include delivery cost of the pellets.
> As for efficiency, I think that efficiency of a  modern pellet stove is close enough to that of an oil boiler that it can be ignored for the purpose of comparison.


To your last point. Do you think a pellet stove would still edge out an oil burner due to a lack of duct work/pipes?


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## bdaoust (Nov 7, 2013)

Harvey Schneider said:


> It all looks good except that the % savings is the $ savings divided by the oil cost. The result is 40% savings. You are saving 40% of the cost of the more expensive fuel.
> The result might be a little lower if you have to include delivery cost of the pellets.
> As for efficiency, I think that efficiency of a  modern pellet stove is close enough to that of an oil boiler that it can be ignored for the purpose of comparison.



My only problem is that my stove is in the basement.  I still can heat the first floor and even second floor of the house.  
However, the stove has to overheat the basement to move the heat upstairs.  I've been experimenting with fans though.


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## Luvmesomesamples (Nov 7, 2013)

Another way to look at it: my oil furnace has a nozzle flow rate of 1.25 gallons per hour which roughly is the cost of 1 bag of pellets. Using any calculator on the planet I am saving money assuming that I can decrease my oil consumption by at least 1 hour. This is my first winter with pellets but I think I can conservatively replace 800 gallons of fuel oil with 3.5 tons of pellets netting a savings of $2200 first year. I will let you know!


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## briansol (Nov 7, 2013)

The year I put my stove in (the 2nd winter in the house) I cut back my total oil use from over $5000 to $900 + $1200 in pellets.   (of course this was when oil was $5 a gallon back in 07 and my boiler still runs for hot water and 1 1/2 level of my house below stove grade.)  that's 3/5 savings, or 60%, so its pretty much a no brainer.


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## Harvey Schneider (Nov 7, 2013)

john193 said:


> To your last point. Do you think a pellet stove would still edge out an oil burner due to a lack of duct work/pipes?


That's a good point. 
The pipes of my hot water baseboard system get some of the walls extremely hot. I can locate the pipes running to the second floor just by running my hands along the first floor walls. There has to be significant loss when those are outside walls. In addition, the boiler in the unfinished basement has marginally insulated pipes running off across the ceiling to access the levels above.
The stove on the other hand is directly heating the air in the living space.
I wouldn't know how to compare total system efficiency except by comparing fuel cost per year adjusted for degree days.Sounds too much like work... I'm retired, no more Engineering.


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## slls (Nov 7, 2013)

Last year I burned mostly pellets. This year I will burn mostly oil. Pellets are over rated, no way will my 140 CFM pellet stove equal my 1200 CFM 78K BTU at 135 F oil burner.

Pellets are for the young crowd. The saving using top rated pellets is not much.


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## Luvmesomesamples (Nov 7, 2013)

slls said:


> Last year I burned mostly pellets. This year I will burn mostly oil. Pellets are over rated, no way will my 140 CFM pellet stove equal my 1200 CFM 78K BTU at 135 F oil burner.
> 
> Pellets are for the young crowd. The saving using top rated pellets is not much.


I do believe that one of our member's accounts may have been hacked That is the least sensible post I have read on here yet. Oil forum is next window over.


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## Bioburner (Nov 7, 2013)

Luvmesomesamples said:


> I do believe that one of our member's accounts may have been hacked That is the least sensible post I have read on here yet. Oil forum is next window over.


 Next to "I like to support terrorists and countries with dictators"


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## SmokeyTheBear (Nov 7, 2013)

Hey respect your elders.


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## Bioburner (Nov 7, 2013)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> Hey respect your elders.


 I just humped another ton to the basement with a back brace and knee wrap. Now where did I leave my darn reading glasses so I don't have to read the screen from across the room?


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## rona (Nov 7, 2013)

slls said:


> Last year I burned mostly pellets. This year I will burn mostly oil. Pellets are over rated, no way will my 140 CFM pellet stove equal my 1200 CFM 78K BTU at 135 F oil burner.
> 
> Pellets are for the young crowd. The saving using top rated pellets is not much.


 
You surely must own your own well.


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## dmancine (Nov 7, 2013)

I used to burn wood but switched to pellets when it became too much work.  I didn't burn wood and I don't burn pellets now for the cost savings.  You cannot compare the constant, even and warming heat from wood ( pellets or logs) with the uneven on and off heat from an oil burning furnace.  With pellets I'm comfortable all the time...with oil I'm comfortable, cold, comfortable and then cold again.


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## St_Earl (Nov 7, 2013)

dmancine said:


> I used to burn wood but switched to pellets when it became too much work.  I didn't burn wood and I don't burn pellets now for the cost savings.  You cannot compare the constant, even and warming heat from wood ( pellets or logs) with the uneven on and off heat from an oil burning furnace.  With pellets I'm comfortable all the time...with oil I'm comfortable, cold, comfortable and then cold again.



yep. even if oil and pellets cost the same to heat with, i'd still go with pellets.

saturated heat ftw.


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## brokenknee (Nov 7, 2013)

OK, I just ran the hearth fuel calculator, at 200 a ton for pellets it said it would cost 1570 dollars a year to heat an average house. that is almost 8 tons a year. I asked my dealer before purchasing the stove how many ton the average house in our area uses per season just heating with pellets and he replied 5. That being said I have five bags left of my first ton. Hope to have the wood stove in by the end of the month. eight ton is way more than what I figured.


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## St_Earl (Nov 7, 2013)

8 tons is way high.


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## brokenknee (Nov 7, 2013)

St_Earl said:


> 8 tons is way high.


 
I would hope so. but that is what it says, maybe I missed something. I just says for an "average" home, not sure how they came up with "average"


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## St_Earl (Nov 7, 2013)

you're definitely not in the tropics. but still.

what's your home's sq. footage and layout?


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## iceguy4 (Nov 7, 2013)

Bioburner said:


> And how many of us keep the same bone chilling temps burning pellets that we did with dino juice?


 That's part of my problem in figuring my savings. I heat more of my house and to a temp 9° warmer(64° to 73°)  . way more comfortable and wife is happy too.  For me this is how I figure it....for every ton I burn of pellets, its 125 gallons of oil I didn't burn.

Slls,  I don't agree (respectfully)  


slls said:


> The saving using top rated pellets is not much.


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## brokenknee (Nov 7, 2013)

St_Earl said:


> you're definitely not in the tropics. but still.
> 
> what's your home's sq. footage and layout?


 
That amount was from the fuel calculator on this web site. My house is 1600 square foot on slab, new windows and doors this summer.


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## Bioburner (Nov 7, 2013)

I went through 5 tons last heating season but was one of the longest winters. Weatherman just confirmed yesterday one of the shortest times between snowfalls. Only 4 months between.


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## Utilitrack (Nov 7, 2013)

brokenknee said:


> That amount was from the fuel calculator on this web site. My house is 1600 square foot on slab, new windows and doors this summer.


I will burn half of that in a similar climate with slightly larger square footage burning October to May, never burned a full 4 tons keeping house 72+ all the time. Something is wrong with your calculations.


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## brokenknee (Nov 7, 2013)

Utilitrack said:


> I will burn half of that in a similar climate with slightly larger square footage burning October to May, never burned a full 4 tons keeping house 72+ all the time. Something is wrong with your calculations.


 here is the link, put 200 a ton in and see what you get. https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/fuel_cost_comparison_calculator/


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## rayttt (Nov 7, 2013)

brokenknee said:


> OK, I just ran the hearth fuel calculator, at 200 a ton for pellets it said it would cost 1570 dollars a year to heat an average house. that is almost 8 tons a year. I asked my dealer before purchasing the stove how many ton the average house in our area uses per season just heating with pellets and he replied 5. That being said I have five bags left of my first ton. Hope to have the wood stove in by the end of the month. eight ton is way more than what I figured.



6 months is 180 days   ...50 bags to a ton..
3.6 tons covers 180 days at 1 bag perday...near the minimum...
8 tons you would have to burn 3 a day for most of the full 6 months...and shoulder months certianly do not take 3 bags.


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## St_Earl (Nov 7, 2013)

Utilitrack said:


> I will burn half of that in a similar climate with slightly larger square footage burning October to May, never burned a full 4 tons keeping house 72+ all the time. Something is wrong with your calculations.


they get a good bit colder than us in MN. but i agree.

circulating the heat from your stoves will be key.
but having both wood and pellet stoves will serve you well.

i use fans to move cold air toward the stove low and warm air to the back bedroom up high.

depending on how you place your stoves, you might not have as much need to do so.


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## St_Earl (Nov 7, 2013)

rayttt said:


> 6 months is 180 days   ...50 bags to a ton..
> 3.6 tons covers 180 days at 1 bag perday...near the minimum...
> 8 tons you would have to burn 3 a day for most of the full 6 months...and shoulder months certianly do not take 3 bags.




yep. we burned for 8 months here last year. but it wasn't 24/7 for all of that.


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## Enigma869 (Nov 7, 2013)

brokenknee said:


> OK, I just ran the hearth fuel calculator, at 200 a ton for pellets it said it would cost 1570 dollars a year to heat an average house. that is almost 8 tons a year. I asked my dealer before purchasing the stove how many ton the average house in our area uses per season just heating with pellets and he replied 5. That being said I have five bags left of my first ton. Hope to have the wood stove in by the end of the month. eight ton is way more than what I figured.


 

Not buying that any house would burn 8 ton.  Not unless it was insanely large.  I don't live in a small house.  It's about 3200 square feet, and I don't even burn 5 ton a year.


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## Utilitrack (Nov 7, 2013)

We have 5 years of use with very different winters to validate, but I can see that you just installed your stove in September. You should plenty left over for next winter's stash if you have already purchased 8 tons.


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## iceguy4 (Nov 7, 2013)

Enigma869 said:


> Not buying that any house would burn 8 ton.  Not unless it was insanely large.  I don't live in a small house.  It's about 3200 square feet, and I don't even burn 5 ton a year.


 well you kinda have to buy it. I started last year in December and burned over 7 tons. I put 8 tons in basement and one ton in garage and bet I'll need more.  and I don't live in a "big" house...just saying...


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## iceguy4 (Nov 7, 2013)




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## brokenknee (Nov 7, 2013)

I think you guys are missing the point of my post. I am pointing out a potential flaw in the calculator, unless I missed something on it.

Bioburner, how much have you gone through this season so far? I have five bags left for my first ton. Started burning the same day my stove was installed.

What about everyone else, how much have you burned so far this season? Maybe I should make this its own thread?


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## St_Earl (Nov 7, 2013)

i think there are couple threads out there already on that 
are you running an outside air kit?

45 bags since 9/20. that's a pretty good clip for "shoulder" season.

i've burned maybe close to 25 so far.
it hasn't really gotten very cold yet.


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## brokenknee (Nov 7, 2013)

St_Earl said:


> i think there are couple threads out there already on that
> are you running an outside air kit?
> 
> 45 bags since 9/20. that's a pretty good clip.


 
Must have missed those threads, I did start a new one, do you know if I can delete it?

Yes I am running an oak.


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## St_Earl (Nov 7, 2013)

eh. i wouldn't sweat it. those threads can be fun. and they come along often 




St_Earl said:


> i've burned maybe close to 25 so far.
> it hasn't really gotten very cold yet.


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## rayttt (Nov 7, 2013)

bdaoust said:


> Does this look accurate?
> 
> Given :
> 
> ...




I'm getting pellets at 3.90 a bag..
fuel oil at 3.45 ,,,
Last year's oil usage =350 - 375 gallons.
cost me 1300...
This years pellets about 800 bucks.
Saturated Heat ...priceless


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## moey (Nov 7, 2013)

iceguy4 said:


> well you kinda have to buy it. I started last year in December and burned over 7 tons. I put 8 tons in basement and one ton in garage and bet I'll need more.  and I don't live in a "big" house...just saying...



I think folks using boilers or a furnace actually burn more because they are actually heating their entire house. I dont know how many posts I read about heating such and such size house with X pellets. And a week later they mention what type of space heater they use on the far side of their house.


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## tjnamtiw (Nov 7, 2013)

This is the best calculator out there because it's the only one that I know of that takes into account your hot air distribution system's efficiency.  Plug your numbers into it.

http://www.buildinggreen.com/calc/fuel_cost.cfm


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## rona (Nov 8, 2013)

brokenknee said:


> I would hope so. but that is what it says, maybe I missed something. I just says for an "average" home, not sure how they came up with "average"


 
I wouldn't rely on a average number. Figure your sq feet, how much insulation you have, and talk to people around you asking them how much they burn. Then figure your stove's capability. If it is said to be a 40,000 btu stove that means the max amount of heat it will produce. Now figure out how much pellets it will consume.
I start heating in Oct and quit in May. Those shoulder months don't use very much but when its cold I can use 2 bags a day or a little more with a 50,000 btu stove. I run with a thermostat set on 70. Anyway it averages a ton a month so 7 tons for the windy area of Southwestern Minn.  7 X 200= 1400.00 for the season. I could save more by mixing corn with the pellets.
  When it gets below -20 I will run another stove in the basement  but it only gets used in extreme conditions-20 and wind- Other wise one stove and no other heat.


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## briansol (Nov 8, 2013)

IF you think oil is cheaper, you're wrong.  Period. 

at current pellet prices, oil needs to drop to 2.89 /gal to break even.


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## ScotL (Nov 8, 2013)

Even at $2.89/gallon for oil, pellets would have to cost $346/ton to break even.


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## St_Earl (Nov 8, 2013)

oil would have to do a hell of a lot more than break even for me to even consider giving up the constant heat i get with pellets.

i really don't feel like paying to alternately be cold several times a day.


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## jvanase (Nov 8, 2013)

iceguy4 said:


> well you kinda have to buy it. I started last year in December and burned over 7 tons. I put 8 tons in basement and one ton in garage and bet I'll need more.  and I don't live in a "big" house...just saying...


I burned almost 7 tons last year too.  I have ~8 this year ready to go.  Total space maybe about 3400 sq ft if you include the basement (which is being heated).  All depends on the layout of your house and what not.  Believe it though, the stash in the basement doesn't lie!

Even so.  $1500 for pellets this year (I got 2 tons cheap from a co-worker) is WAY below what oil would cost to stay comfortable all winter.

When I ran all the numbers for prices in my area last year I also came up with a 40% savings ratio, so I think that is pretty accurate.  Maintenance and delivery costs pretty much wash.  It's expensive to have an oil burner cleaned in my area.  The only difference is the time you put into keeping the pellet stove clean and running.


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## slls (Nov 8, 2013)

Bioburner said:


> Next to "I like to support terrorists and countries with dictators"



I didn't know South Dakota had terrorist, or dictators. But then again this is the US.


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## slls (Nov 8, 2013)

Luvmesomesamples said:


> I do believe that one of our member's accounts may have been hacked That is the least sensible post I have read on here yet. Oil forum is next window over.



I still burn pellets, just not when it's cold.


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## slls (Nov 8, 2013)

rona said:


> You surely must own your own well.



I know most people on this site never heard of weatherization, by a lot of posts they are heating barns.


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## Bioburner (Nov 8, 2013)

slls said:


> I know most people on this site never heard of weatherization, by a lot of posts they are heating barns.


 Trying to heat 100 plus year old homes that never knew what fiberglass was. Some are not improvable by much because of older wiring and construction methods. My previous home built in 1953 only had 1 inch but at least was updateable to an extent.


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## St_Earl (Nov 8, 2013)

slls said:


> I know most people on this site never heard of weatherization...



that's a bold claim.


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## Bioburner (Nov 8, 2013)

slls said:


> I didn't know South Dakota had terrorist, or dictators. But then again this is the US.


Wilkinson, North Dakota is the big oil producer. US was not #1 oil exporter till just a little while ago.


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## SmokeEater (Nov 8, 2013)

St_Earl said:


> 8 tons is way high.


My cape is in northern NY and the weather here is probably similar to north central Maine.  The house is over 3000 square feet and is in a windy area and in fact there is one of the largest wind farms in NY in my back yard so to speak.  If I get by with 8 tons this year, I'll be a happy pellet burner and a warm one at 72*F.


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## Lumberjack (Nov 8, 2013)

wow...late to the party!  

my home isn't a barn...it has 2x4 walls with fiberglass insulation (we've opened a few up to check!), updated windows, lots of attic insulation, newer doors ect ect but it still isn't enough.  IMO you need at least R19 on your walls for the structure to hold any heat in the dead of winter.

when i click the oil heat on it warms up quickly.  when the furnace shuts off you can feel it cool off quickly.  with oil I kept the thermostat at 62F.  burning the pellet stove for ~12hrs currently uses less than 30 lbs.  house stays above 68F.  we shall see what the rest of the winter brings.


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## rayttt (Nov 8, 2013)

my home aspires to be a barn!
2x4 walls..about R0.06  if I had to guess..Have never seen flimsier insulation..its a summer home...
a little 2 bedroom vacation home in the Poconos. 
But with a P38 cranking about half way its good down to zero...I haven't had colder than that since  I got it yet.


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## Pellet-King (Nov 8, 2013)

Bioburner said:


> And how many of us keep the same bone chilling temps burning pellets that we did with dino juice?


Pellet heat is room dependant, Oil is whole house even warmth....your choice


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## Pellet-King (Nov 8, 2013)

dmancine said:


> I used to burn wood but switched to pellets when it became too much work.  I didn't burn wood and I don't burn pellets now for the cost savings.  You cannot compare the constant, even and warming heat from wood ( pellets or logs) with the uneven on and off heat from an oil burning furnace.  With pellets I'm comfortable all the time...with oil I'm comfortable, cold, comfortable and then cold again.


like me you must have forced air heat, as a kid i grew up with oil baseboard heat, dont ever recall being cold in the '70's, my house now has 1952 forced air oil heat,never knew forced air was even in homes back then...my luck buying this house in 2008, it was summer never heard the furnace, would of not bought it if i knew it's very loud as the furnace is under my bedroom and the whoosh of the air is very loud...hate it...so i burn pellets


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## St_Earl (Nov 8, 2013)

Pellet-King said:


> like me you must have forced air heat, as a kid i grew up with oil baseboard heat, dont ever recall being cold in the '70's, my house now has 1952 forced air oil heat, very loud as the furnace is under my bedroom and the whoosh of the air is very loud...hate it...so i burn pellets



yeah. forced air oil is all i've ever had experience with.
this house has it as well.
it was awful in mild portland oregon, and it's completely out of the question in millinocket maine..

i am over the moon happy with pellet heat.  our little place gets thorough consistent heat from just the pellet stove.


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## dmancine (Nov 8, 2013)

Pellet-King said:


> Pellet heat is room dependant, Oil is whole house even warmth....your choice



I have a 2 story Colonial, 2200 sq ft.  My Harmon xxv keeps entire downstairs warm to what I set the stove stat.  Upstairs, steady 67 all day.  Only time my oil burner comes on is in the morning when upstairs is 65-66


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## moey (Nov 8, 2013)

St_Earl said:


> yeah. forced air oil is all i've ever had experience with.
> this house has it as well.
> it was awful in mild portland oregon, and it's completely out of the question in millinocket maine..
> 
> i am over the moon happy with pellet heat.  our little place gets thorough consistent heat from just the pellet stove.



Furnaces used to be ridiculously oversized still are to a degree that is the biggest problem in a really cold climate. You cook the house then let it cool rinse and repeat. We have a two stage heat pump forced air 36k btu first stage 50k btu second stage, then electric coil if its ridiculously cold to add to the 50k btu output. We dont have the problem with inconsistent heat it runs almost continually when it drops in the teens so you don't get the hot/cold problems. I prefer it to baseboard its actually quieter. We have both in our house baseboard is slowly coming out. Im in Maine its cold..

Would love to have radiant floors..


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## WOODNUT358 (Nov 9, 2013)

I have a 1600sf home.I use no more than 4 tons a year in the 5yrs. I've been burning pellets.The house is a constant 70-72* all winter long.The the bottom line,the Arabs aren't getting the $$$$$$$ I used to be sending them for oil.I'll stick with the pellets.


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## slls (Nov 9, 2013)

Bioburner said:


> Wilkinson, North Dakota is the big oil producer. US was not #1 oil exporter till just a little while ago.



South Dakota oil comes to a local refinery, my HHO comes from there.


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## moey (Nov 9, 2013)

slls said:


> South Dakota oil comes to a local refinery, my HHO comes from there.



Veggie oil burner? 

What makes you think your HHO comes from South Dakota? There are several refineries that make HHO. Ive never heard of anyone saying their HHO came from South Dakota oil production.


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## becasunshine (Nov 9, 2013)

For us, currently, it's natural gas vs. pellets.   If we put a pellet stove in the house at the river (which is my plan, I'm sitting here as I type missing my pellet stove in town) then it will pellets vs. propane.

We will also put a free standing gas stove here at the river as well for use during power outages.  We don't have a fireplace, and as of right this moment we don't have a generator here either.  I don't anticipate having a generator here until we live here full time.  I doubt we'll put a gas stove here until we are here full time as well- but we do come here all year (obviously, here I sit) and a pellet stove vs. propane is almost no contest.

We've had a lot of other projects unfolding so we don't have a pellet stove here at this time- but it's coming.  Just a matter of time and budget.

All this being said, I've done some tortuous calculations on pellets vs. natural gas.  There are many online calculators that say that pellets and natural gas run about neck and neck in terms of price per therm/price per BTU produced.  My colloquial experience differs.  I can only attribute this discrepancy to the infrastructure costs, fees, taxes, etc. tacked onto our natural gas bill.

Here's my off the cuff analysis:

We had our pellet stove installed in September 2008, when our natural gas provider announced a 25% increase in natural gas prices.  September in Virginia is still summer.  I can't recall when exactly we fired up the stove in 2008, but I'm sure we were using it as our main source of heat by November.

I cancelled our natural gas budget billing plan as soon as we installed the pellet stove.  IIRC, the highest monthly natural gas bill we received for the winter of 2008/2009 was about $50.

In the spring of 2009, after a full season with the pellet stove, I called our natural gas provider and asked them for an adjusted budget billing amount.  Again, IIRC, the company adjusts the budget billing amount once annually, so unless you cancel your budget billing plan, you are paying that amount for the year.
After a full season of pellet stove usage, during which our highest bill was approximately $50, the gas company wanted to charge us a $90/month budget billing amount for 12 months out of the year.

No thank you.

So we stayed on "pay as you go," and since that time, our highest monthly natural gas bill was in late winter/early spring of 2011 (was that the year that it snowed several times and stayed below freezing for weeks on end, even during the day?  Highly unusual for Virginia.)  The highest natural gas bill we've received since installing the pellet stove was during that cold spell, and it was approximately $70 for that month.

Just this past summer, I called our natural gas company, after several years of using the pellet stove, and asked again for a budget billing amount, which would be in effect for 12 months unless I cancelled it.  The representative looked up the historical usage at this address (house was built in 1958/1959) and came back with a budget billing amount of- wait for it- $100.

I know for a fact that we don't burn $1200/year in pellets.  We probably wouldn't use $1200/year in natural gas either... but then again, we might.  Similar homes in our neighborhood, similar construction, similar age, similar size, will run $300/month natural gas bills during the coldest part of the year.  So, perhaps, $1200/year isn't far off.

We burn about 2 tons of pellets per year, and if I shop *very* carefully, that will cost us under $500/year.

We still use natural gas to heat water but with two people, that's a minimal amount.

I can't imagine that it would be *cheaper* to burn oil than to burn pellets.  I don't see how that is possible.  If you enjoy your oil heat- and it is warm heat, I grew up with old school oil furnaces- then by all means enjoy it.   Our emphasis is on cost savings and we're willing to do the work and put up with the slightly uneven heat in the house for that.


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## slls (Nov 10, 2013)

moey said:


> Veggie oil burner?
> 
> What makes you think your HHO comes from South Dakota? There are several refineries that make HHO. Ive never heard of anyone saying their HHO came from South Dakota oil production.



Ever hear of Lac Magantec, that was oil coming to my refinery from South Dakota. I only have one local refinery up here in the woods


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## moey (Nov 10, 2013)

slls said:


> Ever hear of Lac Magantec, that was oil coming to my refinery from South Dakota. I only have one local refinery up here in the woods



Yes I know of it. I don't really know enough where home heating oil comes from I just know theres numerous refineries that make HHO just because your close to one doesnt necessary mean that is where your HHO comes from. Maybe it does though it sounds like in your case it does. 

Some HHO even comes from Venezuela.


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## becasunshine (Nov 10, 2013)

St_Earl said:


> that's a bold claim.


 
I second that, St. Earl.  Perhaps I should post pictures of our attic.     Or maybe our replacement windows, swaddled in cell shades and butt ugly thermal curtain panels.    Or the hardwood floors, all yurted up in their Costco-thickness area rugs (purchased on deep discount at the end of season a couple of years ago.)  NO WAIT I KNOW,  the electrical outlets on the external walls, with their insulation inserts and their child-proof safety caps plugging up the sockets!  Or, perhaps, my laundry flapping in the breeze on the line outside, so we aren't sucking the air we've already heated from the house into the dryer, heating it up some more, then dumping it outside...  Somebody stop me, I'm on a roll!


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## becasunshine (Nov 10, 2013)

iceguy4 said:


> View attachment 117042


 
Purty.


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## iceguy4 (Nov 10, 2013)

St_Earl said:


> oil would have to do a hell of a lot more than break even for me to even consider giving up the constant heat i get with pellets.
> 
> i really don't feel like paying to alternately be cold several times a day.


 

  The cold / hot deal is more a mater of the delivery system.  I was 52 years old before I discovered cast iron radiators combined with hot water...and my plumber says "steam is even better"  I can tell you it is very nice...quiet , not dry, even heat, and if you pay $$$ a sand blasted, powder coated radiator is very smooth and attractive. Now I cant speak of HW baseboard but it cant have the residual heat of a radiator, and that is what buffers the delivery.
    I have lived with and loved the heat of a wood stove BUT   I can live without the localized heat and cold "corners" mess up stairs...bla,bla...


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## iceguy4 (Nov 10, 2013)

becasunshine said:


> Purty.


 
just 5 years ago when I purchased


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## iceguy4 (Nov 10, 2013)

becasunshine said:


> the electrical outlets on the external walls, with their insulation inserts and their child-proof safety caps plugging up the sockets


 
the wind whistled through mine.   on a cold day you could  feel  the cold ...like 6" away!!  took several old covers, drilled a hole in them , installed them and sprayed foam from small cans in the hole. the next day replace the cover with a new one.   what a difference. Oh I also sprayed "pam" on the back of the holed cover so it wouldn't stick


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## becasunshine (Nov 10, 2013)

iceguy4 said:


> just 5 years ago when I purchased


 
I love the new siding color and that gorgeous stone wall!

I'm sitting here at the river house with 20+ mph wind hitting the back of the house, straight off the water.  Thank goodness it's not cold outside today- it's downright temperate- but it's going to get cold tonight. 

This is the house to which we hope to retire in a few years.  It has a heat pump with a back up gas furnace, powered by (of course) propane. 

We've not yet installed an alternate heating system here because it's not mandatory that we be here during cold weather.  Both of us were sitting here last night, and the night before last, missing our pellet stove but not touching the thermostat.  After the sun went down, temps quickly dropped to the threshold below which the propane furnace would have fired as opposed to the heat pump.

The house is new, built very well by a local builder whose family has lived in this exact location for hundreds of years.  The builder's father was in construction, as was his grandfather.  These guys know how to build and insulate a house for this location. We were very, very lucky to fall backwards into this house.  The only thing we've had to do to this house in terms of winterizing is to insulate the electrical outlets on the exterior walls, as well as adding those childproof electrical outlet plugs that keep kids from sticking object into outlets.

We were here one weekend last winter when it was indeed cold, and a stiff wind was blowing right off of the water and onto the back of the house.  I could put my hand in front of the electrical outlet and feel *the cold wind coming in through the prong openings in the sockets.* 

Yeah, it gets cold here in the winter.  We thought we'd hold off on buying a pellet stove for this house until we were closer to retirement, but we're in the process of changing our minds.  It's entirely possible that a pellet stove could pay for itself in money saved by not using propane, just in part time use during the winter in the remaining years that my husband hopes to work.


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## iceguy4 (Nov 10, 2013)

becasunshine said:


> river house with 20+ mph wind hitting the back of the house, straight off the water


 funny   my house is also on a river...out front!  yep ...wind too



becasunshine said:


> I love the new siding color and that gorgeous stone wall!


 
I built them.10" block on a 4' deep 8X24 footing, 8" block faced after with free stone from odd jobs. ..proper drainage combined with filling all block holes with re-rod and concrete.


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## becasunshine (Nov 10, 2013)

iceguy4 said:


> funny   my house is also on a river...out front!  yep ...wind too
> 
> We aren't water front- thank goodness or we'd be paying waterfront property taxes, heating bills and shoreline conservation, but we are water view, which is nice.  We do, however, have a level field between us and the river with no windbreak.  When the wind comes off of the water it hits the house.  Our weather station has recorded winds as high as 60+ mph not associated with any storm system.  (Did I already say that in this thread?  if so, sorry!)
> 
> I built them.10" block on a 4' deep 8X24 footing, 8" block faced after with free stone from odd jobs. ..proper drainage combined with filling all block holes with re-rod and concrete.


 
You did a great job.  That wall is gorgeous- it really frames the house!


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## rowerwet (Nov 10, 2013)

my outdoor pellet boiler cut my house heat bill almost in half, we kept the house on the same programable thermostat and temps as oil. Unlike those dinky indoor stoves the boiler heated the whole house evenly, and my hot water.


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## Bioburner (Nov 10, 2013)

rowerwet said:


> my outdoor pellet boiler cut my house heat bill almost in half, we kept the house on the same programable thermostat and temps as oil. Unlike those dinky indoor stoves the boiler heated the whole house evenly, and my hot water.


 Who's calling my stove dinky, I am doing the same thing. No fancy thermostat needed.


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## Dgopetactical (Nov 10, 2013)

My math does not add up to what I'm reading above, all I can say is I used to burn about 825 gal of oil a year x $3.65 = $3,011 a year keeping my house about 70 deg. Last years pellet usage was 4 ton $865.00 average house temp 76 deg, oil usage about 10 gallons.
Total heating cost for 2012-13 $901.50
Since pellets in my area went up about $30 a ton this year my heating cost will be a little above $1,000, 

my savings paid for my stove in 1 season.

I have a 67 yo cape cod 1750 sf walls have minimal insulation r 9 attic has equivalent of r 40
Denny


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## jlupi (Nov 11, 2013)

Ill give you my math.   I typically went through 900 g of oil  with my old oil boiler.  2 yrs ago I went through 500 gallons with my new oil boiler in a very warm winter.  Last year was a cold winter and I went through 3 tons of pellets and 50 gallons of oil while keeping the house warmer than I have in years.


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## jlupi (Nov 11, 2013)

Dgopetactical said:


> my savings paid for my stove in 1 season.




same here


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## slls (Nov 11, 2013)

Any heating system will keep you warm if the minimum temp is at your comfort level. Oil, natural gas or pellets. A statement that I was cold burning oil makes no sense.


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## maple1 (Nov 11, 2013)

slls said:


> Any heating system will keep you warm if the minimum temp is at your comfort level. Oil, natural gas or pellets. A statement that I was cold burning oil makes no sense.


 
Sure it does - if above the minimum temp gets you very uncomfortable with the extra fuel dollars being spent, you can be cold burning oil.


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## iceguy4 (Nov 11, 2013)

slls said:


> Any heating system will keep you warm if the minimum temp is at your comfort level. Oil, natural gas or pellets. A statement that I was cold burning oil makes no sense.


 My sense of "cheapness" makes me set my temp lower...hence we feel cold


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