# Quadrafire Castille Rumbling Sound



## MoeB (Dec 23, 2008)

I am posting this for a friend because she can't post yet for some reason.  She's getting the message:  "unable to post messge at this time."   Here's her question:
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We have a brand new Castille Quadrafire installed yesterday.  Sometimes we hear a deep rumbling sound.  Does anybody know what this is, and is it normal.

Thank you.


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## 4124elad (Dec 23, 2008)

It is one or two of the holes in the fire pot covered by pellets, ash or a clinker.  Sometimes it will whistle
also.  Keeping  the pot clean will minimize this.


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## Czech (Dec 23, 2008)

My castile did this for months post install, it happens due to the high air flow through the stove. Once mine was used a bit, it got better. Does it typically only happen at start up on high? You can search this site for 'howl' and 'castile' and see what others have said. 4124, I very politely don't agree with the clean the pot theory, I believe it is the opposite in nature, i.e. very clean (new) and high air flow due to this. Lastly, what is the vent config? Outside air too?


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## Czech (Dec 23, 2008)

Link to previous posts on this subject below, note that there is also another link is the thread that has many more posts also:
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/6984/


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## Shortstuff (Dec 23, 2008)

Like every stove, the Castile has her own personality and traits.  I agree that right after I give the burn pot a good cleaning and ensure that all the holes are clear there will be some whistling noise which I think is just a characteristic of the shape of the burn pot and location of the holes.  After a few starts and stops the whistle goes away.

As far as the rumbling sound, I also get this noise too.  It sounds like a large, heavy 18-wheeler passing the house.  It always happens right after the pellets first ignite and the first burst of heat travels through the exhaust pipe and out and lasts perhaps 20 seconds or so.  It's that noticeable "roar" and "rumble" you hear that is located in your vent pipe which is normal.

Merry Xmas!

Steve


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## MainePellethead (Dec 23, 2008)

I get the Quad rumble too....ONLY when the pot is getting filled and needs cleaning and only on medium and def. on high. I clean the pot and it goes away   Basically the holes getting plugged with crap.


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## stoveguy2esw (Dec 23, 2008)

its an air thing thats for sure , our units can do it sometimes as well, here's a quick trick to cause it to stop doing this, restrict the intake a little , if the unit has a sealed intake pipe coming out of the stove (not the exhaust) cover a little bit of it wiht a piece of tape ,block maybe a third of the opening , the rumble should stop or at least attenuate, if its still there cover a little more, if the fire turns darker or lazy youhave covered too much. usually you will find a "sweet spot" where you still have a clean active burn but no rumble. i do not know if this will work with an "open" air intake which has an opening on it allowing in room air if the outside air is blocked. but if the intake is sealed this usually will work.

it should be noted that the rumble doesnt actually harm the unit (at least not ours) but can be a nuisence. i would also check with your dealer first as well to see if quad has a fix for this first and maybe try my little trick if they do not.

hope this helps


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## CenterTree (Dec 25, 2008)

Moe said:
			
		

> I am posting this for a friend because she can't post yet for some reason.  She's getting the message:  "unable to post messge at this time."   Here's her question:
> _____________
> 
> We have a brand new Castille Quadrafire installed yesterday.  Sometimes we hear a deep rumbling sound.  Does anybody know what this is, and is it normal.
> ...


 I agree with 4124elad,,, It is probably the clogged drill holes.  Also, try lowering your feed rate a bit at a time if the noise is on start up.( it may be getting to many pellets to burn with the air supply).  But it is VERY IMPORTANT to keep the burn pot clear of clinkers! Too many pellets with too little air may be causing the ROAR.  Mine roars so loud it scares the heck out of my family,,but after I remove the clinker that is blocking those 4 air holes in the bottom of the pot , then the noise will subside.  You may hear a “whistling” sound also, this could be from those drill holes being clogged with ash or metal burrs from the factory… I scraped mine out with a .38 caliber pistol brush.  Good luck.


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## scott_cuddy (Dec 25, 2008)

CenterTree said:
			
		

> Moe said:
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> 
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> ...



I have to agree with GotztheHotz, the problem is likely due to an overfire which is likely caused by too much air.  I can replicate this with some frequency by adding a small handful of pellets prior to starting the stove.  The sound is also accompanied by a VERY high flame, which backs up the idea of too much air, not too little.

However, I think that CenterTree is right that cutting back the fuel feed rate would also help.  Fire needs fuel, spark and air to ignite, after all.  If you have less fuel or less air, the flame will be lower, and I imagine that the sound will go away.


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## Nicholas440 (Dec 26, 2008)

I have a Quadrafire Castile insert also.  The rumble sound  I get  lets me know that the fire is burning good.  If you look at the flames when it's rumbling, you should see them about 4 to 6 inches or so out of the burn pot,  and the flame should have jagged edges all around it like the top of a pineapple, and this rumbling sound can sound like a blow torch also. 

The fire at this point should  be a very intense yellow white,  so bright that at times its like trying to look at the sun.  For me this sound lets me know my Castile is burning good,  and of course I make sure the  feed rate rod is adjusted to the proper amount as indicated in the user manual and shown in the DVD video they furnish with the unit.    A  fire thats very low and barely comes out of the pot normally wont rumble, and  a fire that is too high, and constantly touching the top baffle isnt good and will rumble a lot.  


My installer gave me a crash course on  disassemblling the Castile, and how to clean it, and things to look and listen for when its burning. Occasionally it will whistle a little as air gets sucked in throught the holes in the side of the burn pot, and this too is normal. 


Cleaning out the burn pot is not going to eliminate the rumble,  its the sound the fire makes when its burning efficiently. Quadrafire units make this sound due to the design of the burn pot and as long as the sound is not annoying I wouldnt worry about it.

With the pellets I am using I can let my Castile run for 3 days non stop,  before I have to empty the pot, and even at that point I only have about 1/2 inch of ash in the bottom of the pot.  I also would not recommend covering up any of the holes in the burn pot, they are there for a reason,  and that is to draw in air to help the pellets burn effeciently.

You should hear a rumbling sound of some sort in any pellet burner that has a properly adjusted fire, if its burning on a medium to high flame.


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## CenterTree (Dec 26, 2008)

[/quote]
I have to agree with GotztheHotz, the problem is likely due to an overfire which is likely caused by too much air.  I can replicate this with some frequency by adding a small handful of pellets prior to starting the stove.  The sound is also accompanied by a VERY high flame, which backs up the idea of too much air, not too little.

However, I think that CenterTree is right that cutting back the fuel feed rate would also help.  Fire needs fuel, spark and air to ignite, after all.  If you have less fuel or less air, the flame will be lower, and I imagine that the sound will go away.[/quote]

 Hmmm, Sparkman, so how would one DECREASE the amount of air being supplied to the stove?  I am fairly certain that reducing the feed rate will lower the flame, yes, and therefore the roar of the flame, but does the system automatically decrease the air supply to match the pellet feed??? Isn't that done by the "low,med,high" switch on the back of the castile? 
   ROAR or Rumble?  > Maybe there are some DIFFERENT types or catagories of rumble that people are encountering with this quad. I am familiar with the "healthy" roar of a fire. But I have also experienced the "heart pounding", bed shaking rumble (vibration) that can accompany this quad if the feed rate and air mixture is not proper.


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## gblaue (Dec 27, 2008)

I had the same problem with my 2007 Castille. I've always burned Lignetics pellets and have had the fuel feed set to the minimum. Even at these settings the flames were tall, lazy and it would howl. I went back to my dealer, but the stoves on the floor didn't. What I did notice was that the door seal was 3 sided with the seal on the bottom in the store (yes, I know there is a service bulletin and production change, bear with me). The problem, as I see it, when Quadra-Fire changed the moved the seal to the top side if the glass to improve the airwipe, they decreased the stoves ability to pull it's air through the burnpot. The stove now pulls too much air from between the airwipe gap. So, I took my glass out and turned it upside down to force more air to be pulled through the burnpot. The burnpot looked like a blowtorch with no rumble. Only downside is that the glass does get dirty fast. The other day I read here on this site, I can't remember who, but I got to give mega thumbs up I replaced my tadpole gasket with the original tadpole gasket (he didn't, he used 3/4" rope gasket), but he made the brilliant discovery of removing the airwipe bracket and bending it so that it almost contacts the glass. By reducing the airwipe gap to almost zero, the burn is a torch, there is no rumble, and the glass stays clean. Problem solved. Quadra-Fire are you listening??????


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## CenterTree (Dec 27, 2008)

gblaue said:
			
		

> I had the same problem with my 2007 Castille. I've always burned Lignetics pellets and have had the fuel feed set to the minimum. Even at these settings the flames were tall, lazy and it would howl. I went back to my dealer, but the stoves on the floor didn't. What I did notice was that the door seal was 3 sided with the seal on the bottom in the store (yes, I know there is a service bulletin and production change, bear with me). The problem, as I see it, when Quadra-Fire changed the moved the seal to the top side if the glass to improve the airwipe, they decreased the stoves ability to pull it's air through the burnpot. The stove now pulls too much air from between the airwipe gap. So, I took my glass out and turned it upside down to force more air to be pulled through the burnpot. The burnpot looked like a blowtorch with no rumble. Only downside is that the glass does get dirty fast. The other day I read here on this site, I can't remember who, but I got to give mega thumbs up I replaced my tadpole gasket with the original tadpole gasket (he didn't, he used 3/4" rope gasket), but he made the brilliant discovery of removing the airwipe bracket and bending it so that it almost contacts the glass. By reducing the airwipe gap to almost zero, the burn is a torch, there is no rumble, and the glass stays clean. Problem solved. Quadra-Fire are you listening??????



SIGH!  wow, too much air??  Too Little air??   Now I am really mixed up.   All I know for sure is > TOO much NOISE!  LOL!

  What's a tadpole gasket?  Where is it?


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## Nicholas440 (Dec 27, 2008)

My Castile insert has the door seal on  3 sides,    the TOP  and down BOTH SIDES.  The is no seal along the bottom of the door,  and my glass rarely gets dirty,  but the Quad still has a nice rumbling sound to it... 

In the video they supply I believe the door gasket goes all the way around all 4 sides.  



Perhaps you're saying that the   ' tadpole'  gasket  is the door  seal gasket ?


It has to have air entering at the bottom of the glass to keep the glass clean.  Also known as   " airwash "


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## gblaue (Dec 27, 2008)

The gasket used to be be on bottom and both sides. Quadra-Fire issued a service/production bulletin changing the gasket location moving the gasket from the bottom to the top. This allowed the air to be drawn in fro the gap in th bottom. They call it the "airwipe". As as far as I can tell, it only decreased the amount of air that could be drawn through the burnpot.


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## Czech (Dec 27, 2008)

Yes, you can modify the door to use regular big box gaskets, that's what I did. Trick is making sure the wash baffle has the correct gap, I believe the baffle is only on the bottom design (gasket on top and sides). You can do this by removing the baffle (two screws) and putting very small finish nails or such laid parallel under the back side of the baffle when putting the screws back in to tip the baffle edge just a little forward, after you've modified the glass and installed new gasket. Be careful, if you bend the baffle you will make an uneven gap and therefore the window will streak with ash due to the difference in airflow (I had to buy a new baffle, thanks jpt!). 3/4" rope as mentioned, glue directly to the glass after that. It takes some putzing, go easy, but works great once done. I don't believe the problem would differ with where the airwash gap is, either top or bottom, the gaps should be the same and the firebox is negative pressure and will draw air from wherever it can.


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## Czech (Dec 27, 2008)

The door gasket is called a tadpole gasket due to the flaps that the rods go thru. If you modify, make sure you leave the part that goes on the OUTSIDE edge of the glass so that is seals there, you may need a little gasket cement too to make the glass stays in the frame. Do NOT do this to a new stove that is under warranty, it is not worth it. And don't drop the window (ceramic not glass, it is spendy!).


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## gblaue (Dec 28, 2008)

GotzTheHotz said:
			
		

> I don't believe the problem would differ with where the airwash gap is, either top or bottom, the gaps should be the same and the firebox is negative pressure and will draw air from wherever it can.



It actually makes quite a difference, by reducing the amount of air that can be drawn through the airwipe gap, it is now ok to put the tadpole gasket back up on top. Because the system works on negative pressure, it's going to pull air from the easiest source (in the case of stock it would be the airwipe gap), but it really needs to pull most of of it's air through the firepot for it's most efficient combustion. The airwipe was least restrictive source for air intake, by modifying this, it brings it back into balance.


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## Stevekng (Dec 29, 2008)

I believe the sound you are talking about is air being forced into the the fire pot, creating the "roaring fire" noise. Perhaps the shape of the fire pot acts like a speaker and amplifies the sound.
I've been burning mine since September and unless your sitting on top of the unit or sleeping right next to it, it shouldn't be a bother.

Enviro VF-100 & Quadra-Fire Castille.


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## gblaue (Dec 29, 2008)

Actually, I have a slightly different take on why the roaring is so loud. The firebox acts as the resonant chamber and the pellet feed chute and hopper act as a horn amplifying the roar. I was able to change the characteristics (tone and volume) of the roar by opening and closing the fuel enrichment rod. By changing the volume and shape of the pellet feed chute I could the sound on th fly, not to mention it cause the sheet metal inside the stove make noise to. P.S. I design audio amplifiers for a living for an audio company. ;-)


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## MainePellethead (Dec 29, 2008)

This is my second season with my Quad Castile.  Its pretty simple...when the air holes are blocked and  you have the blower on medium or high...its gonna rumble. That TELLS me its time to dump that burn pot. Pellets I burned last year allowed me to go three days without  the rumble on the upper 2 fan levels. But this year I'm burning  some pellets that are kinda dirty and I pretty much have to dump the pot daily or on the beginning of day 2.   But once I dump the pot...I get just as nice of a flame as before I clean it but with NO rumble   Basically...I hear the rumble....its the stove saying clean my darn pot out will ya!


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## CenterTree (Dec 29, 2008)

MainePellethead said:
			
		

> This is my second season with my Quad Castile. Its pretty simple...when the air holes are blocked and you have the blower on medium or high...its gonna rumble. That TELLS me its time to dump that burn pot. Pellets I burned last year allowed me to go three days without the rumble on the upper 2 fan levels. But this year I'm burning some pellets that are kinda dirty and I pretty much have to dump the pot daily or on the beginning of day 2. But once I dump the pot...I get just as nice of a flame as before I clean it but with NO rumble  Basically...I hear the rumble....its the stove saying clean my darn pot out will ya!


This is what I thought too, my Castile would rumble *if* the burn pot was full with clinkers. So I would empty (clean ) it and the noise would subside. But mine will rumble on ALL settings. Low Med High. What I notice is that if the stove burns uninterrupted, their is no rumble. (just the normal fire noise). Nice continuous burn.
But when the stove shuts down per the thermostat, then upon RESTART it will start again with it's AWFUL, HOUSE MOVING RUMBLE. (this is EVEN if the pot is squeaky clean, or the setting on low). After being shut down for a short time from the thermostat, the stove will then add pellets, smoke a little, then light.... then it will go NUTS. The flame will be so large as to fill the entire box. I mean it will touch ALL four corners and top. This is the time that I (and my heighbors, and probably a few people in Japan) will hear that stupendous RUMBLE . The stove just shakes and carries on for about 20-30 seconds. It sounds like a B52 landing in the living room. Then the flame will subside and go into and normal burn pattern as if all is well. (UNTIL THE NEXT START UP). I've played with the feed rate so many times it doesn't seem to make a difference. If I close the feed too much more, then my flame height on_ low _will be smaller than a candle. A note,,, if I open the glass door during the LOUD RUMBLE time frame, then the roar will stop for a second as the flames relax. But it will start as soon as I close the door. Also, this noise does not occur at EVERY start up, it just seems random, yet often enough. It is really starting to be an issue with this stove, especially at night as it makes sleeping impossible. I talked to my dealer, he said he never heard of this.?????


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## gblaue (Dec 29, 2008)

MainePellethead said:
			
		

> This is my second season with my Quad Castile.  Its pretty simple...when the air holes are blocked and  you have the blower on medium or high...its gonna rumble. That TELLS me its time to dump that burn pot. Pellets I burned last year allowed me to go three days without  the rumble on the upper 2 fan levels. But this year I'm burning  some pellets that are kinda dirty and I pretty much have to dump the pot daily or on the beginning of day 2.   But once I dump the pot...I get just as nice of a flame as before I clean it but with NO rumble   Basically...I hear the rumble....its the stove saying clean my darn pot out will ya!


Yep, that too causes it to rumble, but not enough air being drawn through the burnpot is another problem and this has solved it. Maybe this info can help others, who apparently are having the same issue and not getting any resolution from their dealer. Or better yet, maybe some dealers may benefit from from this info and be able to provide better service to their customers.  It's just too bad that we have to figure it out for Quadra-Fire. :-(


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## smalltown (Oct 20, 2009)

Posted here in error please see Castile Fire Roaring post



			
				CenterTree said:
			
		

> MainePellethead said:
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> 
> 
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gblaue thanks for that link that was a very interesting old post especially the section I quoted above from "Center Tree".
Most think I should adjust the feed rate, but my stove runs real good most of the time it's just these (two) so far apparently random real big fire and roaring (almost like the old Ed Sullivan show instead of really big show it's a realy big fire and roar!)
I have yet to see my problem actual start so I am not sure if it is the same issue that "Center Tree" posted but it sure sounds like it. I wish he were still posting so I could give him a call. It may well be that my problem occured on a restart and I was not there to notice it happen. 

Can I hazard a novice guess? Because my issue is random what if just before the thermostat turned off the call light the augure had just dumped a good number of pellets (you know how sometimes it drops a few and other times a lot) then went into shutdown. If these last pellets were not completely burned and upon the next call for heat the stove dumps in its' good share of startup pellets might there be a "random" time when I have too many pellets in the pot and have the accompaning "Ed Sullivan Fire" (really big fire) untill these pellets burned down? Center Tree stated after waiting 20-30 seconds his burt down to a normal fire. I am not so sure I have the courage to last that long given the noise and size of the fire, but I may try to steel myself for the 30 seconds to see if it clears. The problem is catching a random occurance.


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## GIPPER (Oct 21, 2009)

I think the problem is poor quality pellets. when i use premium hardwood i have no problems. I tried energex last year ,could not even burn them. Started with feed rate on low. Roared every time! I GAVE THE ENERGEX to my brother with a harmon p68. He said his stove has never performed so bad! Glass turned black and tons of clinkers and high ash.


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## GIPPER (Oct 21, 2009)

A good quality pellet should not fill the firepot for a few days . The first year with my stove I burned hamers ,the stove worked perfect.I have not seen them in this area for awhile. Everytime I burned bad pellets BINGO,firepot filled to fast even with feed rate on low. Buy a good hardwood pellet problem solved!


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## slls (Oct 21, 2009)

In a Quad all the pellets in the burn pot are burned on shutdown. That is one thing the Quad does real good, sparks flying every where.


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## gblaue (Oct 21, 2009)

GIPPER said:
			
		

> I think the problem is poor quality pellets. when i use premium hardwood i have no problems. I tried energex last year ,could not even burn them. Started with feed rate on low. Roared every time! I GAVE THE ENERGEX to my brother with a harmon p68. He said his stove has never performed so bad! Glass turned black and tons of clinkers and high ash.



I ran Lignetics for 2 seasons and always had the problem.


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## CenterTree (Oct 22, 2009)

Can I hazard a novice guess? Because my issue is random what if just before the thermostat turned off the call light the augure had just dumped a good number of pellets (you know how sometimes it drops a few and other times a lot) then went into shutdown. If these last pellets were not completely burned and upon the next call for heat the stove dumps in its' good share of startup pellets might there be a "random" time when I have too many pellets in the pot and have the accompaning "Ed Sullivan Fire" (really big fire) untill these pellets burned down? Center Tree stated after waiting 20-30 seconds his burt down to a normal fire. I am not so sure I have the courage to last that long given the noise and size of the fire, but I may try to steel myself for the 30 seconds to see if it clears. The problem is catching a random occurance.[/quote]

  The quads seem to be able to burn to completion ALL the residual pellets left in the pot.  Even when the thermostat is satisfied and the stove shuts down it will supply air until all the pellets are gone, so I think this theory is NOT the case with our CASTILE's rumble.


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