# Covid-19 check in - How are you doing?



## begreen (Aug 27, 2020)

I am wondering how you and your families are doing so far? We have members from all walks of life. Some of us are much more affected than others. I know the teachers here are stressing out quite a bit. This is a non-political question, please keep it this way.

Me, I am retired now and gardening is in full swing. We live in a rural area so going out for walks without contact is not an issue. I am at an age considered at risk. What we miss the most is social contact, but we do see some friends when we get our fresh eggs and are fortunate to have great neighbors to chat with at a distance. My body is getting older. Dealing with a knee injury that is taking weeks to heal, but I am still slowly working my way through projects. Normally this weekend we would be heading north for a big gathering of many friends. This has been a Labor Day tradition for 15 yrs. but it's not happening this year. Too many of us are geezers now.   I have seen my creative output drop sharply. I haven't painted since April. Hoping to get started again. I will need to do something to stay sane this winter besides stoking the stove and the internet. My younger son remains unemployed. It is harder on him than us I think as he is staying at home.


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## Dataman (Aug 27, 2020)

I stay home a Lot.  But went to BDay Gathering for Friend.    Outside.   Sure it was risk.  We have only 14k in whole county.   40 Cases of Covid.  Be glad when it's back to Normal.  Also Retired since July 2000.   I normally travel and do some photography.  Alas this year staying home.  Hopefully for my 63rd Birthday next spring I can go visit family or travel and see some sights.  https://www.climb-utah.com/Misc/ninemile.htm


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## SpaceBus (Aug 27, 2020)

We have been spending our quarantine gardening and building. Our county has low reported cases and no deaths, but we aren't taking any chances. My immune system is compromised so the risk just isn't worth it.


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## begreen (Aug 27, 2020)

Love steam engines Dataman. That B&W shot is excellent.


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## MTY (Aug 28, 2020)

Working too much.  I work retail, and I reopened the store after two months.  I just try to stay back from everyone.  I've been working on the house too.  Three years of seven day per week.  I have the inside painted except for a couple of short walls in the basement.  The cabinets, vanities, and counter tops are in.  I have about 13 boxes of flooring to lay out of 71 boxes.  Window trim and baseboards are started.  The wrap around deck is done, but I ended up with leftover deck boards and am adding a step 5'X24' to the front portion of the deck.  

The well pump is supposed to be placed next week.  I think I have a delivery of a log truck of tamarack lined up, and if it shows up I will start sawing on cool mornings.  The veggie garden is doing well.  I have been negligent as far as weeding, but am too busy to care.  

I was hounded into a wellness check, 68, good bp, cholesterol, and a1c.  Was told to eat more as I am about 10 to 15% body fat.  No meds, and few issues.  And I brush cut my head rather than go to a barber.  How many ripped old men do you see?


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## Highbeam (Aug 29, 2020)

I’m actually better than ever. Working from home, more efficient here. More time at home to care for animals, garden, yard, family. I’m not a partier so the eased social expectations agree with me.

I’m not happy about people suffering but I hope everyone stays healthy and we keep doing this for a long time. Yet, winter is coming and my optimism might change.


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## begreen (Aug 29, 2020)

I started working from home as soon as I had a fast internet connection, many years before I retired. But I also went into work 2-3 times a week. There were many benefits to in-person interaction which I enjoyed owing to work with a great team.


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## bholler (Aug 29, 2020)

Not covid related but stuck sitting in pediatric ICU with our 11 yr old daughter.  She had a Drs appointment yesterday and her resting heart rate was 168.  At the hospital it spiked to 208.  It turns out she has PJRT.   Which is basically faulty wiring in her heart.  So they are putting her on beta blockers to control her heart rate untill she can get into children's hospital of pa in Philly on Thursday.


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## Jan Pijpelink (Aug 29, 2020)

bholler said:


> Not covid related but stuck sitting in pediatric ICU with our 11 yr old daughter.  She had a Drs appointment yesterday and her resting heart rate was 168.  At the hospital it spiked to 208.  It turns out she has PJRT.   Which is basically faulty wiring in her heart.  So they are putting her on beta blockers to control her heart rate untill she can get into children's hospital of pa in Philly on Thursday.


Sorry to hear that. I know what it is. I have cardiomyopathy with obstruction, well I had it. My HR went from 32 to 188 in seconds up and down. I was fixed at the Cleveland Heart Clinic in 2006.


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## Jan Pijpelink (Aug 29, 2020)

Working from home since I started at current company. Since 2009. We don't go out much other than supermarket etc. Only thing I miss is international travel. My mother in the Netherlands turned 90 last April; could not visit her. US citizens are still not allowed in the EU.


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## bholler (Aug 29, 2020)

Jan Pijpelink said:


> Sorry to hear that. I know what it is. I have cardiomyopathy with obstruction, well I had it. My HR went from 32 to 188 in seconds up and down. I was fixed at the Cleveland Heart Clinic in 2006.


Yeah for a while hers was bouncing from 40s to 160s and 170s.  The crazy thing is she has apparently been living with it for a while because she said she felt perfectly normal.


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## Jan Pijpelink (Aug 29, 2020)

bholler said:


> Yeah for a while hers was bouncing from 40s to 160s and 170s.  The crazy thing is she has apparently been living with it for a while because she said she felt perfectly normal.


Me too. It was a birth defect that skips a generation. They found mine "by accident" when I was 41. My deceased brother probably had it too. As well as one of my deceased sisters. Our parents had no issues at all.


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## Jan Pijpelink (Aug 29, 2020)

If you have other kids, I recommend to have them tested. A simple EKG will tell if they have it or not.


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## paulnlee (Aug 29, 2020)

bholler said:


> Not covid related but stuck sitting in pediatric ICU with our 11 yr old daughter.  She had a Drs appointment yesterday and her resting heart rate was 168.  At the hospital it spiked to 208.  It turns out she has PJRT.   Which is basically faulty wiring in her heart.  So they are putting her on beta blockers to control her heart rate untill she can get into children's hospital of pa in Philly on Thursday.


Wife just came home from ST Lukes after 2nd ablation 2 weeks ago for afib. After a week heart rate skyrocketed. They decided to do the paddles and shock it back into rhythm. It worked. Thu seems too long to wait(clots) too young for this, best of good medicine.


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## begreen (Aug 29, 2020)

bholler said:


> Not covid related but stuck sitting in pediatric ICU with our 11 yr old daughter.  She had a Drs appointment yesterday and her resting heart rate was 168.  At the hospital it spiked to 208.  It turns out she has PJRT.   Which is basically faulty wiring in her heart.  So they are putting her on beta blockers to control her heart rate untill she can get into children's hospital of pa in Philly on Thursday.


 It's good you brought her in. I'm sorry to hear this. That has to have been a frightening experience for all of you. Hope the meds help slow things down soon.


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## bholler (Aug 29, 2020)

begreen said:


> It's good you brought her in. I'm sorry to hear this. That has to have been a frightening experience for all of you. Hope the meds help slow things down soon.


Her heart rate was normal most of the day but just spiked to 190 again.  They havnt started the beta blockers yet though.


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## begreen (Aug 29, 2020)

I have an adult friend, she is over 60, with very similar arrhythmia. No fun.


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## bholler (Aug 29, 2020)

begreen said:


> I have an adult friend, she is over 60, with very similar arrhythmia. No fun.


And she just acts like everything is perfectly normal.  She is pissed off and says she is fine and wants to go home.


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## PaulOinMA (Aug 29, 2020)

We are doing o.k.  Thanks for asking.

We are both introverts. My introvert score (Myers-Briggs I) at 16personalities.com was 96%.

Several guys I know also like things this way social distancing-wise.  A friend that's an attorney in CT says that he can't see ever going back fulltime in the office.

Have been helping set up for outdoor church on Sunday, but not staying for the service.   Just don't want to be in a group of people even with distancing.

Nan was working from home two days a week before COVID.  We set up a better workspace for her now that she is fulltime at home.

She has two large monitors on a desk.  We are setting up a third tomorrow as the Tour de France started today.  

We  are exercising every afternoon in the basement, and I have lost some weight.


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## johneh (Aug 29, 2020)

I had ablation surgery done new years eve 2018 for AF 
it has made quite a difference in my life. Now they want to do Tevi 
to replace a valve. What they can do now compared to 10 years ago
Tell the young lady it does not hurt and in most cases, you are out of
 there the same day


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## EatenByLimestone (Aug 30, 2020)

For me, life is pretty much normal.  I can't complain.   We're healthy.  I'm working my tush off since it's our busy season.  Last month our young company passed last year's numbers.  The wife is working from home.  I'm working out of my truck.  When I see customers, I'll put a mask on.    Life goes on.


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## fbelec (Sep 1, 2020)

prayers and all the best bholler.

i've been home most of the time since march. wife has been working from home and goes in once a week until someone shows up in the afternoon then leaves. this has worked out for me so that i could have my right shoulder replaced so recovery is now during this slow part. we are trying to do our parts even tho massachusetts is low with the virus.


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## SpaceBus (Sep 1, 2020)

fbelec said:


> prayers and all the best bholler.
> 
> i've been home most of the time since march. wife has been working from home and goes in once a week until someone shows up in the afternoon then leaves. this has worked out for me so that i could have my right shoulder replaced so recovery is now during this slow part. we are trying to do our parts even tho massachusetts is low with the virus.


I thought Mass was in the top 15?


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## peakbagger (Sep 1, 2020)

Since I live up in the woods in a county that officially is ranked as "in control" I havent been impacted significantly as I am bit of recluse.  The surrounding White Mountain National Forest is getting hammered with a lot of traffic on the hiking trails and recreation areas and there are a lot of first timers who haven't heard of Leave No Trace so the popular trails are getting trashed. Luckily most folks go online and head for the "best" trails and most popular mountains so I can head to the less well known areas and miss the crowds. Work wise I am busy getting busier. I work from home but the clients in Mass are all in a rush to get their projects going. Looks like another 7.1 MWs of CHP with a possible additional 7 MW long term.  The down side is they are all in urban areas of Mass. Luckily they are all in the early stages so not a lot of need to be at the sites as I did the early field work last fall.  The early Covid stay at home orders in my state in the spring gave me a big block of time to get caught up with firewood so I am in the best shape in years for wood stacked and drying.  Still not where I want to be but a lot closer. Mixed blessing is  that I had to bury both my parents (at 97 and 87) two years ago but they were both in assisted living and skilled nursing care. Both were definitely vulnerable and no doubt just the stress from the quarantine would have been too much for one of them. My sympathies to anyone with living parents in a similar situation.


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## Gearhead660 (Sep 1, 2020)

Been using the quarantine time to get caught up on the list of things to do around the house.  Currently ~4 years ahead on CCS wood. Been rough for the kids, not able to do usual summer trips/activities.   Currently harvesting and canning from the garden.  Kids getting back to school, different schedules, small classes.  Wife is a teacher, so she is stressed about going back to work also.  I am able to work from home occasionally, still need to go in every week.
@PaulOinMA , I will have to take that introvert test, sure I'll ace it!


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## gzecc (Sep 1, 2020)

Less contracting work, more home work, less travel.  Son in North Carolina probably had corona symptoms. He thought he had MS.   His symptoms have since subsided.   A 27 yr old friend of his is still on a ventilator (about 10 days now).   I have a friend with cancer that has lost 60lbs.  I'm careful for him.


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## fbelec (Sep 2, 2020)

SpaceBus said:


> I thought Mass was in the top 15?


considering how many people are in this state its not to bad here


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## Riff (Sep 2, 2020)

We're hanging in there. Both my wife and I are teachers (different districts) and both of our districts went virtual in part due to having large universities nearby. So, we're doing the best that we can with the virtual situation and wondering what things are going to look like the rest of the school year.


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## thewoodlands (Sep 2, 2020)

After our county having zero cases a few weeks back, the cases are on the rise again. Ten new cases reported in the news today for a total of 19. One town has 7, three towns have have three cases per town with another three towns have 1 case per town.

The colleges kids have been back with a bunch not following the school rules, the college towns are only reporting 1 per town, Canton and Potsdam NY  .








						25 students sent home from St. Lawrence, Clarkson universities for breaking COVID-19 rules
					

The fall semester only just began, but 25 college students in St. Lawrence County have have already been sent home. Officials at Clarkson and St. Lawrence universities said the students violated the rules that were set up to prevent the spread of COVID-19.




					www.wwnytv.com
				




We've been staying away from certain stores and doing some boating and working around the house more.


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## Jan Pijpelink (Sep 2, 2020)

thewoodlands said:


> After our county having zero cases a few weeks back, the cases are on the rise again. Ten new cases reported in the news today for a total of 19. One town has 7, three towns have have three cases per town with another three towns have 1 case per town.
> 
> The colleges kids have been back with a bunch not following the school rules, the college towns are only reporting 1 per town, Canton and Potsdam NY  .
> 
> ...


Let's all move to Antartica.


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## begreen (Sep 2, 2020)

thewoodlands said:


> After our county having zero cases a few weeks back, the cases are on the rise again. Ten new cases reported in the news today for a total of 19. One town has 7, three towns have have three cases per town with another three towns have 1 case per town.
> 
> The colleges kids have been back with a bunch not following the school rules, the college towns are only reporting 1 per town, Canton and Potsdam NY  .
> 
> ...


Seems like urban areas are starting to get things under control, but rural areas are seeing a rise in cases.


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## EatenByLimestone (Sep 3, 2020)

Yeah, the urban people are all moving out of the cities to rural areas and bringing their baggage.


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## SpaceBus (Sep 3, 2020)

Jan Pijpelink said:


> Let's all move to Antartica.


Then every continent will have it.


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## SpaceBus (Sep 3, 2020)

thewoodlands said:


> After our county having zero cases a few weeks back, the cases are on the rise again. Ten new cases reported in the news today for a total of 19. One town has 7, three towns have have three cases per town with another three towns have 1 case per town.
> 
> The colleges kids have been back with a bunch not following the school rules, the college towns are only reporting 1 per town, Canton and Potsdam NY  .
> 
> ...


The Maine CDC won't disclose what town infected folks live in for fear of reprisals against those infected individuals.


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## CaptSpiff (Sep 3, 2020)

SpaceBus said:


> The Maine CDC won't disclose what town infected folks live in for fear of reprisals against those infected individuals.


That's good. Medical shaming is pretty horrible.
I think County level is the way to go for public dissemination.


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## thewoodlands (Sep 4, 2020)

We have another four cases in our county today, from zero to 25 in a short amount of time.

We'll see what town they're in when they update the map, I'm wondering when our two college towns will explode with new cases.

I'm seeing enough gatherings where people aren't wearing face mask or social distancing that this small outbreak doesn't surprise me.


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## Sawset (Sep 4, 2020)

Jan Pijpelink said:


> Let's all move to Antartica.


Seems to me, early on a couple picked a rural village to relocate (yukon type latitude, picked a spot on a map), chartered a plane, disembarked, and were immediately rounded up by the locals, quarantined and sent back.
Otherwise, on a local level here, no news is good news. Enough family working in health care and retirement facilitys, with no recent comments to raise alarm.


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## gzecc (Sep 4, 2020)

gzecc said:


> Less contracting work, more home work, less travel.  Son in North Carolina probably had corona symptoms. He thought he had MS.   His symptoms have since subsided.   A 27 yr old friend of his is still on a ventilator (about 10 days now).   I have a friend with cancer that has lost 60lbs.  I'm careful for him.


Update: 27 yo male friend still on ventilator. Considering an ECMO machine.  Have since identified cancerous tumors on a gland in the chest.  This must be the reason covid was so serious.  If he survives the covid  he'll have the cancer to battle.  Life can be a bit#%.


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## Medic21 (Sep 4, 2020)

After 25 years I have walked away from EMS as a full time job.  The stupidity and piss poor management with this Pandemic made the decision very easy.  Still work Part Time now as a Flight Medic and pull a flat bed everyday.  Love it, and it pays soooo much more.  

Hoping this will be over with a vaccine in the next few months and life can go back to normal.


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## Medic21 (Sep 4, 2020)

The tipping point for me was the State of Indiana sent out thousands of N95 masks that in the end were faulty.  They offered very little protection and it was just luck most of us didn’t get sick.  When it was brought to our managements attention they told us senior Medics to keep quiet and failed to tell anyone to protect themselves.  

I walked away from my full time job at the end of a shift and didn’t look back.


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## MTY (Sep 5, 2020)

Cops raiding parties, kids being kids and testing positive because of it,  Welcome to rush at fraternities and sororities across the USA


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## SpaceBus (Sep 5, 2020)

Medic21 said:


> The tipping point for me was the State of Indiana sent out thousands of N95 masks that in the end were faulty.  They offered very little protection and it was just luck most of us didn’t get sick.  When it was brought to our managements attention they told us senior Medics to keep quiet and failed to tell anyone to protect themselves.
> 
> I walked away from my full time job at the end of a shift and didn’t look back.


Wow, that is crazy. I've heard hospitals are hard up right now, but that is unacceptable. My wife's company refused to provide adequate PPE so she asked to be furloughed. My doctor already wrote me a note explaining that my immune system is too weak for all this mess. My wife was a CNA and then a LPN going on 20 years now, so I can understand that while the choice was easy to decide on, it wasn't easy to walk away from your career. Seems that too much of the leadership in this country is prioritizing profit over lives.


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## CaptSpiff (Sep 5, 2020)

Colleges in NYS have generally resumed on-campus teaching. And if we remember back to our own youthful experiences, we're probably not shocked that lack of social distancing is rampant. Yet I'm not that worried.

I've read the data from an Oregon State govt health organization that makes me think college aged youth may be the perfect group to begin the path to herd immunity. They are amazingly resilient as shown in the table attached, which records the 26700+ residents who have been identified with Covid.

Perhaps the practice of immediately sending Covid Students home is the worst idea. Lets let them quarantine at the campus and not bring it home to Mom & Dad.







Note: the attached pdf is page 6 of 36 of the "Oregon COVID-19 Weekly Report 9.2.2020", at 




__





						Oregon Health Authority : OHA COVID-19 News and Reports : External Relations Division : State of Oregon
					






					www.oregon.gov


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## Medic21 (Sep 5, 2020)

SpaceBus said:


> Wow, that is crazy. I've heard hospitals are hard up right now, but that is unacceptable. My wife's company refused to provide adequate PPE so she asked to be furloughed. My doctor already wrote me a note explaining that my immune system is too weak for all this mess. My wife was a CNA and then a LPN going on 20 years now, so I can understand that while the choice was easy to decide on, it wasn't easy to walk away from your career. Seems that too much of the leadership in this country is prioritizing profit over lives.



The one management position I’ve held in the past in EMS was short lived. I made decisions based on what was best for the employee. You know the old thought process of the employee is the hardest part of your company  to obtain and retain. I was literally told that company and profits were more important.

“It’s your job to feed them the chit sandwich and tell them how much they like it”.

 The SFC in me let loose and I was unemployed quickly.


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## Medic21 (Sep 5, 2020)

SpaceBus said:


> Wow, that is crazy. I've heard hospitals are hard up right now, but that is unacceptable. My wife's company refused to provide adequate PPE so she asked to be furloughed. My doctor already wrote me a note explaining that my immune system is too weak for all this mess. My wife was a CNA and then a LPN going on 20 years now, so I can understand that while the choice was easy to decide on, it wasn't easy to walk away from your career. Seems that too much of the leadership in this country is prioritizing profit over lives.



This is soooo much more fun...


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## SpaceBus (Sep 5, 2020)

Medic21 said:


> This is soooo much more fun...
> 
> View attachment 262840
> View attachment 262841
> ...


Probably not too bad with the reduction in traffic due to covid. Are you on a team?


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## Medic21 (Sep 5, 2020)

SpaceBus said:


> Probably not too bad with the reduction in traffic due to covid. Are you on a team?


Oh no, local work.  I’ve had my CDL for 25 years.  I won’t go over the road and I won’t ever do team driving.  And the traffic is not lighter in any way now.


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## mcdougy (Sep 5, 2020)

Not much currently happening  with the pandemic around here. 
Schools are starting  in 10days, causing  alot of anxiety for some teachers and families.
 The city we live in has had 54deaths in total. Work is absolutely in abundance for home contracting, lumber especially  p.t. is hard to find if at all available. 
They smacked a 20-25% increase on it all. 

They are keeping us prepared  for a wave 2.....which I can understand......but we really never had much of a wave 1. 
We all hope it stays away as well as the regular flu.


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## Sawset (Sep 5, 2020)

mcdougy said:


> We all hope it stays away as well as the regular flu.


I have seen not so much as a sniffle in 4mo from any acquaintance here. 4yr olds who are normally sick from  some kiddy thing going round , and their parents (nephew) who talk of catching pneumonia twice already from him (last year)- nope - and nope. I'm starting to like the idea of a whole lot less flu and other contiguous run of the mill crap going round. If anyone so much as sneezes - boink, outahere.


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## mcdougy (Sep 5, 2020)

Sawset said:


> I have seen not so much as a sniffle in 4mo from any acquaintance here. 4yr olds who are normally sick from  some kiddy thing going round , and their parents (nephew) who talk of catching pneumonia twice already from him (last year)- nope - and nope. I'm starting to like the idea of a whole lot less flu and other contiguous run of the mill crap going round. If anyone so much as sneezes - boink, outahere.


 Yep, if flu gets going ,I'm sure that it will become a mess. 
Australia is used as our flu season predictor and in general they have had a very minimal flu season. They are assuming  there is a correlation with the fact many people are wearing masks and washing  their hands more often than normal.  And stating that the flu viruses are not overly powerful this season.....I hope that  trend will continue  here


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## Sawset (Sep 5, 2020)

mcdougy said:


> Yep, if flu gets going ,I'm sure that it will become a mess.


I'm not sure. My wife answers a 2dozen questionare, plus temp check, and exchanges maskes twice before she can even enter her place of work (retirement facility). Where I'm at, people would be, uhm, wild, if I said I was feverish at all, even by a degree. People are alert.


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## venator260 (Sep 5, 2020)

The school that I teach in has a week in of hybrid classes (1/2 of the student body at a time, other half online). Masks or face coverings required with 10 minute breaks if social distance is possible in the class. Classroom management has been easier this year, which surprised me because I assumed that our kids would fight the masks, but they really haven't. Planning is tougher, as I feel like I'm planning 2 classes for every one. And all students wearing a mask has made it harder to "read the room" so to speak to pick up on non-verbal ques from kids if they're getting it, not getting it, bored, etc... Every other day + masks has made it harder to get to know classes and the kids in them. 

In the community, most people are back to normal, mask usage is pretty low, and everything is open. The county's numbers are sneaking up a little bit, but nothing too dramatic. However, I am a little concerned about what colder weather will bring


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## Medic21 (Sep 5, 2020)

Sawset said:


> I have seen not so much as a sniffle in 4mo from any acquaintance here. 4yr olds who are normally sick from  some kiddy thing going round , and their parents (nephew) who talk of catching pneumonia twice already from him (last year)- nope - and nope. I'm starting to like the idea of a whole lot less flu and other contiguous run of the mill crap going round. If anyone so much as sneezes - boink, outahere.



The crazy thing is the precautions we are taking for Covid also work very well for all other viruses. This will help with flu season also. 



mcdougy said:


> Yep, if flu gets going ,I'm sure that it will become a mess.
> Australia is used as our flu season predictor and in general they have had a very minimal flu season. They are assuming  there is a correlation with the fact many people are wearing masks and washing  their hands more often than normal.  And stating that the flu viruses are not overly powerful this season.....I hope that  trend will continue  here



The sickest patients we saw back in April and May had Covid and Flu together.  The combination is really bad, deadly at times.  If there is no Covid Vaccine be prepared for another shutdown from February to March this coming spring.  The death rate with spike with flu season.


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## WoodBurnerInWI (Sep 6, 2020)

Since things got crazy here in the US life for me hasn't really changed much in terms of work disruptions or when things were locked down (wife and I don't go to too many stores and restaurants anyways). I work as a cell scientist who creates monoclonal antibodies using rodents (mice and rats mostly we grow the cells in them). Ever since Covid-19 hit here, our business has grown  with all the large pharmaceutical companies wanting our antibodies for their vaccine lines. So I've been busier than ever before and have pulled more OT than I can remember! My wife works as an account manager for a local insurance company and she has been working from home since March with about a once a week 30 min or less trip to her office to drop off and pick up mail.

Being at home more, we've gotten a lot of big projects done around the house and were able to double the size of our vegetable garden this year. I feel like I've had tons more time to process firewood and earlier in the year gained a ton more logs and now have my wood shed and half the yard covered in firewood    Fall weather is going to make itself known around here this week and I plan on making a few evening fires  which for me will be a new record for earliest wood stove use. If the cool weather prevails through Sep and Oct I will certainly be using more wood than last year!


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## kennyp2339 (Sep 9, 2020)

I'm starting to feel the isolation effect on my general well being. IDK, not having that social element of going to the job on a daily routine is starting to wear me out a little. 
Outside of work, during down time I feel ok, I'm able to keep busy. I play golf, yard work, split wood, go to small social gatherings here and there. 
I respond to fire calls, taking the general precautions we have in place, but there's always that little voice in the back of my head that keeps me alert and from becoming complacent, then I'm home. 
I think I'm just tired of it all, I think I'm worried about another large scale shutdown in my area once the colder weather moves in, I think I'm just starting to see some signs of depression due to overall boredom and future uncertainty. 
Just trying to keep myself distracted, take steps one at a time, and know that I'm not the only one feeling like this


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## SpaceBus (Sep 9, 2020)

kennyp2339 said:


> I'm starting to feel the isolation effect on my general well being. IDK, not having that social element of going to the job on a daily routine is starting to wear me out a little.
> Outside of work, during down time I feel ok, I'm able to keep busy. I play golf, yard work, split wood, go to small social gatherings here and there.
> I respond to fire calls, taking the general precautions we have in place, but there's always that little voice in the back of my head that keeps me alert and from becoming complacent, then I'm home.
> I think I'm just tired of it all, I think I'm worried about another large scale shutdown in my area once the colder weather moves in, I think I'm just starting to see some signs of depression due to overall boredom and future uncertainty.
> Just trying to keep myself distracted, take steps one at a time, and know that I'm not the only one feeling like this


My wife and I are struggling with limited human contact. Last week when we went to pick up our curbisde grocery orders my wife celebrated that she accidentally touched the hand of the lady loading our groceries.


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## MTY (Sep 10, 2020)

I am becoming more and more like the old farts in Second Hand Lions.  I just want to sit on the porch with the shotgun and run people off.  Someone pulled into the driveway a couple of days ago.  Other than the census taker the dog tried to eat, that has not happened for better than a month.  
The person that pulled into the driveway wanted me to give them an easement for power across my property so they could build down the road from me.  They left disappointed.  I did them a favor, as even I would not want me for a neighbor.


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## WiscWoody (Sep 18, 2020)

I’m doing ok here, the county numbers were real low until the cabin crowd came up but it’s good that they did since the area depends on them for their business but now it seems to be leveling off and we are at 185 confirmed cases in the county with a 16,000 population. My routine hasn’t changed much really since I’m a homebody anyway with just me and the dogs here and I am self employed and work alone mowing cabin lawns in the summer and plowing in the winter. Thanks For asking begreen.


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## begreen (Sep 18, 2020)

I have to admit that covid-19 when combined with being forced to stay indoors with the smoke has been a real downer. It's hard to make forward progress when most outdoor activity has been curtailed, especially when it's the last nice days of summer. We've been over a week with this gluck and lack of sunshine. All this is reminding me of how much I miss getting together with friends, hugs, going out to eat and the movies.

To break the pattern I have been running watercolor painting classes with my teacher. She is in her 80s and at risk of decline without some outside contact and stimulation. We do the classes via Zoom with a system I have cobbled together using my cellphone as the camera/mike, my iPad as her monitor to respond to students and my laptop to manage the Zoom sessions. It is a bit complicated but works and has been very helpful for her to see her students again and face the challenges of pulling together a class every 2 weeks.


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## thewoodlands (Sep 18, 2020)

Our county has had a total of 314 positive cases with 4 deaths since this started. Our county was down to zero cases about three weeks ago but we have 13 active cases with one in the hospital.

The college towns don't have a big number of cases being reported, Potsdam NY 4 and Canton NY 1.

I'm surprised that our town hasn't had an outbreak with the lack of mask wearing and social distancing going on at some of the local businesses so we stay away from those places and hopefully don't run into any of them on our travels.

We pretty much have stayed around the house, used the boat in the summer and taken a ton of rides that the dog loves.


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## SpaceBus (Sep 19, 2020)

We are headed out into town today most likely to pick up some essentials, and it's always stressful. Few people in our county are wearing masks or social distancing.


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## WiscWoody (Sep 19, 2020)

SpaceBus said:


> We are headed out into town today most likely to pick up some essentials, and it's always stressful. Few people in our county are wearing masks or social distancing.


Many here don’t wear face masks here either despite it being a state law. There’s some small town businesses that don’t even have hand soap in their restrooms and I always complain when I notice it.


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## SpaceBus (Sep 19, 2020)

WiscWoody said:


> Many here don’t wear face masks here either despite it being a state law. There’s some small town businesses that don’t even have hand soap in their restrooms and I always complain when I notice it.


One or two local businesses are very strict about masks, but most are not. It's weird to see hotels packed during a pandemic as well.


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## begreen (Sep 19, 2020)

SpaceBus said:


> We are headed out into town today most likely to pick up some essentials, and it's always stressful. Few people in our county are wearing masks or social distancing.


I am glad to say that is the exception locally. It's rare to see people without a mask at a store and they are usually out of towners. Most stores will hand them a mask if they forgot to bring one.


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## SpaceBus (Sep 19, 2020)

begreen said:


> I am glad to say that is the exception locally. It's rare to see people without a mask at a store and they are usually out of towners. Most stores will hand them a mask if they forgot to bring one.


It seems to be the opposite here; folks from out of town are wearing masks and most locals don't care.


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## begreen (Sep 19, 2020)

SpaceBus said:


> It seems to be the opposite here; folks from out of town are wearing masks and most locals don't care.


Maybe the local demographic? I think the average age here is 55yrs old. You can't get into the local grocery or hardware stores without a mask. Same at the Post Office. Someone will be following you with a big bell shouting Shame! Shame!


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## Jan Pijpelink (Sep 19, 2020)

Same here in NJ. No mask, no service.


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## SpaceBus (Sep 19, 2020)

begreen said:


> Maybe the local demographic? I think the average age here is 55yrs old. You can't get into the local grocery or hardware stores without a mask. Same at the Post Office. Someone will be following you with a big bell shouting Shame! Shame!


I wish it were that way here! Glad to hear most other places are not like here as far as mask wearing, social distancing, etc.


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## thewoodlands (Sep 19, 2020)

If you don't wear a mask here in our county, don't bother going to a store, if you don't have on out you go.

I do get a kick out of our town who has a sign up at recycle saying that masks are mandatory but the town workers there don't wear them and one guy likes to talk face to face with older people, I'm surprised that people haven't turned them in .


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## fbelec (Sep 20, 2020)

in mass around here mask up or leave and one word out of the non masker and the cops get called


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## gggvan (Sep 20, 2020)

I've been promoting and advocating for more work from home for years,  especially here in SE Mass where traffic is horrible.  I've been working fully from home since March,  loving it. I'm totally converting basement into a recreation /business space ,  big screens , work counter, bathroom ,  etc.  

I did take the introvert test,  got 90%. I garden, endless home projects , listen to music,  only go out to home improvement store,  occasionally supermarket. To be perfectly honest , the fact that covid has necessitated the cancelation of all social gatherings is for the most part fine with me.  I tend to prefer more intimate 3/4 people social events.

We like to travel internationally, last trip was to Cuba in February, and we planned more, next to Iceland/Sweden. That's a bummer. 

So, we're all healthy,  doing well,  staying safe .  thanks for asking .


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## begreen (Sep 20, 2020)

I hear you on the travel. We love it too. My wife and I had tickets to go to England and Ireland for May 2020, 40th anniversary. By that time we couldn't even rent a B&B locally.


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## bholler (Sep 20, 2020)

In our area only about half the people are wearing masks and few stores say anything.  I found it hilarious at a turnpike rest stop taking our daughter for surgery a woman was arguing with a clerk about wearing a mask and our 11 yr old daughter said I have a heart condition put a mask on Karen.


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## johneh (Sep 20, 2020)

I live near a small town in Eastern Ontario 
You do not go into a store unless you are wearing a mask 
If you don't wear one you are escorted out. This town is
 a retirement town that is big on tourism we have had only 4  
cases and want it to remain that way.  We have been luck 
and want it to stay that way .


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## MTY (Sep 21, 2020)

I work alone in a small retail establishment of the type that get robbed frequently.  Every time someone comes in with anything other than a medical type mask I find myself automatically doing a threat assessment.


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## fbelec (Sep 21, 2020)

yikes


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## gggvan (Sep 21, 2020)

MTY said:


> retail establishment of the type that get robbed frequently.



forgive my ignorance, but in Idaho?


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## MTY (Sep 21, 2020)

One tank of gas away from Portland and Seattle.  The west coast residents have been showing up buying ammo, and they are from both sides of the protests.


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## firefighterjake (Sep 21, 2020)

Well one thing I learned . . . hot tubs are in high demand. 

We were planning on replacing our broken hot tub as far back as last Fall, but wanted to do some work on the porch first. Didn't realize that there was such a demand for them -- guess folks are spending vacation funds on things like RVs, ATVs . . . and hot tubs.

In any case . . . I should see my new hot tub by January, December if I am lucky.


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## SpaceBus (Sep 21, 2020)

firefighterjake said:


> Well one thing I learned . . . hot tubs are in high demand.
> 
> We were planning on replacing our broken hot tub as far back as last Fall, but wanted to do some work on the porch first. Didn't realize that there was such a demand for them -- guess folks are spending vacation funds on things like RVs, ATVs . . . and hot tubs.
> 
> In any case . . . I should see my new hot tub by January, December if I am lucky.


I love hot tubbing in the winter, especially on a clear night. Maine has some of the best night skies.


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## MTY (Sep 22, 2020)

I went to HD to purchase appliances.  I needed 2 ranges, 2 micros, 2 fridges, 1 wall oven, 1 washer, 1 dryer and a dishwasher.  I was told it would be January before they could supply them.  I went to a local store, and the appliances were in stock.  No choice of color unless again I wanted to wait until January.  

I keep looking at the wood fired hot tubs.  You drain them more often rather than treat the water, but i have more water than I can deal with easily.  A faucet off the bottom would water the garden.  I have too many other projects to finish first.


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## Sawset (Sep 22, 2020)

MTY said:


> I went to HD to purchase appliances.  I was told it would be January before they could supply them.



Between the hurricanes and cannabis growers, industrial dehumidifiers are selling at a "high" rate right now, and of course production is far behind.  Imported mechanical parts like compressors, switches etc are some of the things driving shortages.  Guess where they are imported from.


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## ben94122 (Sep 24, 2020)

bholler said:


> Not covid related but stuck sitting in pediatric ICU with our 11 yr old daughter.  She had a Drs appointment yesterday and her resting heart rate was 168.  At the hospital it spiked to 208.  It turns out she has PJRT.   Which is basically faulty wiring in her heart.  So they are putting her on beta blockers to control her heart rate untill she can get into children's hospital of pa in Philly on Thursday.


How did your daughter's surgery go, bholler?

Good for her for sticking up for herself at the rest stop...put a mask on, Karen!


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## bholler (Sep 24, 2020)

ben94122 said:


> How did your daughter's surgery go, bholler?
> 
> Good for her for sticking up for herself at the rest stop...put a mask on, Karen!


Longer than expected but well.    It was supposed to be 3 to 4 hours but ended up being almost 8.  Now we just wait to see if anything shows up on the cardiac monitor.  She said she never knew it hurt to breath before but it doesn't anymore.  She is also much more pink.  We never noticed she was so pale before


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## begreen (Sep 24, 2020)

MTY said:


> I went to HD to purchase appliances.  I needed 2 ranges, 2 micros, 2 fridges, 1 wall oven, 1 washer, 1 dryer and a dishwasher.  I was told it would be January before they could supply them.  I went to a local store, and the appliances were in stock.  No choice of color unless again I wanted to wait until January.
> 
> I keep looking at the wood fired hot tubs.  You drain them more often rather than treat the water, but i have more water than I can deal with easily.  A faucet off the bottom would water the garden.  I have too many other projects to finish first.


The manufacturing chain has broken down due to employee and parts shortages via Covid. It may be a year before they get back up to speed. 

The Snorkel wood fired hot tub is made locally. They have made them for decades. I'm not sure about watering the garden from one unless the water was untreated.


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## MTY (Sep 25, 2020)

From what I have read about the snorkel stove fired tubs one is not supposed to treat the water.  Changing the water often is the preferred method of use.  With free water squirting out of the ground, we would just locate the tub between the water source and the garden.  Fill and drain by gravity like we do with the cistern now.


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## SpaceBus (Sep 25, 2020)

Are there any wood fired hot tubs with a clean burning stove? Seems that most use old school indoor wood boiler style stoves and I suspect this is pretty smoky.


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## Sawset (Sep 25, 2020)

Someone here at work has had it.  And someone close by.  She's been out for over a week, so I'm guessing the rest of us are out of the woods, but it was interesting how the conversations otherwise here became stilted and twitchy.  A lady where my wife works is out (retirement).  A busy body resident that had a habit of socializing a whole lot outside.  Crossed fingers there also, testing is underway.  They are lucky that it's been kept out for the most part, so disappointed that it's starting to show up.  My daughter is a intensive care RN, and has seen an uptick in the last two weeks or so.  They have a separate area set up now for covid patients, instead of mixed with the other intensive care, so that takes the major stress off all but the ones directly related.  Nothing the hospital can't handle, but otherwise just an observation.


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## paulnlee (Sep 25, 2020)

Living in the state with the worst results for covid I never really changed anything except having to wear the mask to enter any biz. My biz was non existent for several mo's, folks just didn't want you in the home looking in their fridges. Do not know anyone that caught it but I don't socialize.


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## MTY (Sep 26, 2020)

With a snorkel stove there is a partition across the tub.  On one side are people, and on the other side a stove is submerged.  The feed door and stove pipe are out of the water.  

My co worker is sick, sounds miserable, but his test results are not back  yet.  I'm still running on all eight cylinders.


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## Sawset (Sep 26, 2020)

An interesting analysis:


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## begreen (Sep 26, 2020)

That is interesting. It should be noted that this was with data up through August being compared to full years prior.  Or  5 months of data being compared with 12 months for prior years. As noted, it looks like the cases and lockdowns are going up in many of these countries now. If Covid is seasonal, winter is coming. Also, lockdowns and masks are not the first time in history. This was done with the Spanish Flu's multiple waves. It would have been more interesting if South Korea and Taiwan's very low stats were included.
I've read that the Peru situation is due to a very weak medical system compared to Brazil's.
The motivation for this review is obvious. He says it - Why are the pubs closed in Ireland?


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## Sawset (Sep 26, 2020)

begreen said:


> That is interesting. It should be noted that this was with data up through August being compared to full years prior.  Or  5 months of data being compared with 12 months for prior years. As noted, it looks like the cases and lockdowns are going up in many of these countries now. If Covid is seasonal, winter is coming. Also, lockdowns and masks are not the first time in history. This was done with the Spanish Flu's multiple waves. It would have been more interesting if South Korea and Taiwan's very low stats were included.
> I've read that the Peru situation is due to a very weak medical system compared to Brazil's.
> The motivation for this review is obvious. He says it - Why are the pubs closed in Ireland?


Agreed. We'll see. Will be an interesting winter. Tough to find unbiased reporting, but the perspective , argument and data are intriguing.


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## begreen (Sep 26, 2020)

Just remember - There are three types of lies -- lies, damn lies, and statistics. Or as Mark Twain once said:
“Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are pliable.”


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## mcdougy (Sep 26, 2020)

Did everyone know it takes over 30,000 years to count to a trillion if you count at one number per second? 31 years for a billion and 11 days to count to a million.......put some of these numbers in perspective


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## fbelec (Sep 27, 2020)

just out of curiosity has anyone on hearth have a covid bout???????????


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## SpaceBus (Sep 27, 2020)

begreen said:


> Just remember - There are three types of lies -- lies, damn lies, and statistics. Or as Mark Twain once said:
> “Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are pliable.”


I wouldn't even agree that "facts" are stubborn. Nobody can even agree on facts most of the time.


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## SpaceBus (Sep 27, 2020)

fbelec said:


> just out of curiosity has anyone on hearth have a covid bout???????????


There are some folks on the Forestry forum that have had it themselves or have family that have.


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## begreen (Sep 27, 2020)

Sawset said:


> Agreed. We'll see. Will be an interesting winter. Tough to find unbiased reporting, but the perspective , argument and data are intriguing.





SpaceBus said:


> I wouldn't even agree that "facts" are stubborn. Nobody can even agree on facts most of the time.


So I dug into some numbers to check. Here is what I found for last week. The total number of C-19 deaths for Germany, UK, Canada, Japan, France and Spain were 1,507 for a population of 428 million or 1 in 284,007 people. The total number of reported Covid-19 deaths in the US for that same period were 4,870 for a population of 328 million or 1 in 67,351 people. Why 4x+ higher here?


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## paulnlee (Sep 27, 2020)

begreen said:


> So I dug into some numbers to check. Here is what I found for last week. The total number of C-19 deaths for Germany, UK, Canada, Japan, France and Spain were 1,507 for a population of 428 million or 1 in 284,007 people. The total number of reported Covid-19 deaths in the US for that same period were 4,870 for a population of 328 million or 1 in 67,351 people. Why 4x+ higher here?


Simple. Here if you're in a crash and test + for covid in the hospital and then croak from injuries, wallah another covid death


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## SpaceBus (Sep 27, 2020)

begreen said:


> So I dug into some numbers to check. Here is what I found for last week. The total number of C-19 deaths for Germany, UK, Canada, Japan, France and Spain were 1,507 for a population of 428 million or 1 in 284,007 people. The total number of reported Covid-19 deaths in the US for that same period were 4,870 for a population of 328 million or 1 in 67,351 people. Why 4x+ higher here?


There are several ways to manipulate data, but if anything I bet other countries are under-reporting. The US by far has administered the most number of tests, or at least reported tests. So far based on my perception of events the plague is worse than everyone is reporting, but efforts are high to prevent a global panic.


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## Sawset (Sep 27, 2020)

Methods and criteria for reporting? That's been a criticism all along.
There is definatly a bias with the video above. And graphs and statistics - make your own with cherry picked data for sure. And the varying numbers you found are a reminder of how inconclusive trying to be specific can be given the variables.
What I thought was interesting though, were the general concepts, regardless of their exactness. Pandemic, subsidence, then seasonal recurrence, matchy matchy with previous years and outbreaks (h1n1, swine etc). Will we see a second wave, or is it a natural uptick in "cases". And the national numbers in general with comparisons between lockdown vs no, and other comparisons. All worth further investigation. Unfortunately, we all seem to be left on our own, in a world now with no trusted outlets for answers.
I have my daughter in the covid ICU and a niece nurse nurse practitioner for local answers at least, and for a quick snapshot of whats up.


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## mcdougy (Sep 27, 2020)

here's my take.......
I think its something that not a single person really knows what could/will happen. Without a doubt they have let us know that somethings up?? In this situation, I, like you, look for encouragement from hopeful outcomes and not a tragedy like others may be preparing for. Stay positive and Stay safe.

Begreen, to answer your question is nearly impossible...seems strange possibly, but as stated, what do numbers really mean anymore??  There is a few movies that highlight that the general public of the u.s.a. is in poor health. Whats the diabetes  ratio in the u.s.a vs the rest?? Again you can play with numbers till they say what your hoping...


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## SidecarFlip (Sep 27, 2020)

Wife and I are 'professional hermits'.  Works for us and being in rural America also helps.  We can be alone with each other, no issue.


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## begreen (Sep 27, 2020)

SpaceBus said:


> There are several ways to manipulate data, but if anything I bet other countries are under-reporting. The US by far has administered the most number of tests, or at least reported tests. So far based on my perception of events the plague is worse than everyone is reporting, but efforts are high to prevent a global panic.


This is not tests, it's deaths. And the countries listed combined population is 100 million greater. I think this may have more to do with lack of national health care which all those countries have and poverty. The mortality rate here for African Americans is high.


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## SpaceBus (Sep 28, 2020)

begreen said:


> This is not tests, it's deaths. And the countries listed combined population is 100 million greater. I think this may have more to do with lack of national health care which all those countries have and poverty. The mortality rate here for African Americans is high.


There are many dead that must also be tested for covid before they can be added to the count, that's why I mentioned testing. I think there are far more deaths in our country and world wide than is being reported by anyone. The US is a healthcare leader and has some of the best in the world, so if our deaths are 4x everyone else, then think about how bad it must be elsewhere. After living in Europe I can tell you first hand that outside of Germany and the UK, which are still lagging the US, there is no form of national healthcare. One summer in Italy I had to see an emergency doctor and there was a sign on the door that said "Out to lunch" in Italian. I had to wait several hours and see a doctor on a US military installation instead. 

Aside from medical imaging our medicine and healthcare techniques haven't really changed much since the 1918 Pandemic. On the bright side the 1918 pandemic effectively ended shortly after mask wearing became virtually universal.


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## SidecarFlip (Sep 28, 2020)

One nice thing about wearing a mask is, if the gal wearing one is ugly, you cannot tell it........  

My personal opinion is that the Wuhan Flu will be like the Asian flu, it will never go away entirely.


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## Highbeam (Sep 28, 2020)

It irritates me that we track and value the number of cases so much higher than actual deaths. 

To push or pull the case count an agency can just do more or less testing. I’ve never been tested. The people being tested self select so you’ll get a higher positive ratio. Maybe that explains the US’s higher case count per capita.


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## johneh (Sep 28, 2020)

Highbeam said:


> Maybe that explains the US’s higher case count per capita.


Or maybe more people in the US that are being tested  have it 
and fewer people that are being tested in other Countries?


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## SidecarFlip (Sep 28, 2020)

Like political polls, I pay little attention to them.  All I know is my wife and I have not contracted it, being 'professional hermits' and we do go out we mask up and when we touch anything in a store, first thing we do when we get back to the cat is use hand sanitizer (also disguised as fire starter for the pellet stove.

Way too much hype and too little substance.  I myself have more pressing things to worry over, like how bad my corn will be this year.


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## Highbeam (Sep 28, 2020)

johneh said:


> Or maybe more people in the US that are being tested  have it
> and fewer people that are being tested in other Countries?



That's what I said. Same thing.


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## Highbeam (Sep 28, 2020)

SidecarFlip said:


> Like political polls, I pay little attention to them.  All I know is my wife and I have not contracted it



Or have you? The infection doesn't necessarily cause symptoms. Unless you were tested and lucky enough, or unlucky enough, to not have a false negative you'll never know.


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## paulnlee (Sep 28, 2020)

There my friend is the entire political scheme behind all this BS


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## SpaceBus (Sep 28, 2020)

Again, the US has administered more test than any other country, except China if you trust their numbers. Deaths are what I pay attention to because it seems to be a real metric of what is really happening with infections, but the data is about a month behind what is currently happening.


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## SidecarFlip (Sep 28, 2020)

Highbeam said:


> Or have you? The infection doesn't necessarily cause symptoms. Unless you were tested and lucky enough, or unlucky enough, to not have a false negative you'll never know.


If we had, I'd think I, myself would know in as much as I'm a cancer survivor and still have a compromised immune system.  I was just at the hospital (been there numerous times since this all started) and my temperature is always normal and my oncologist has not pushed me to get tested at all.  We don't go anywhere much, just rarely to get gas for the buggy (and I always wear latex gloves when pumping gas in as much as the second dirtiest thing you can touch is a gas pump nozzle (first is cash money).

I'll be at the hospital tomorrow as well.  Security is very tight in the cancer wing, especially in infusion.  Had a port access today (if you know what that is) and a blood draw.  They monitor me constantly.  Thankful we have excellent hospitalization, I've used it HARD in the last 3 years.

If I contracted the virus, I'd know it.  I'd most likely be one of the statistics.  Survivability for me is very questionable.


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## SidecarFlip (Sep 28, 2020)

SpaceBus said:


> Again, the US has administered more test than any other country, except China if you trust their numbers. Deaths are what I pay attention to because it seems to be a real metric of what is really happening with infections, but the data is about a month behind what is currently happening.


If I don't have to get the swab shoved up my nose, I prefer not to.  I hear it's not overly pleasant.


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## begreen (Sep 29, 2020)

Testing has little to do with the number of deaths when compared to the average of previous years. That is all I am asking about. And note that these are not third world countries being compared. Japan and Canada are included. Many more people are dying here this year than in previous years during the same time frame. And our numbers are much higher than in comparable countries. Why?


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## SidecarFlip (Sep 29, 2020)

begreen said:


> Testing has little to do with the number of deaths when compared to the average of previous years. That is all I am asking about. And note that these are not third world countries being compared. Japan and Canada are included. Many more people are dying here this year than in previous years during the same time frame.  And our numbers are much higher than in comparable countries.  Why?


Good question but irregardless, gp get your flu shot and if you are over 60, get the more potent one.  There are 2 different strengths.


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## begreen (Sep 29, 2020)

SidecarFlip said:


> Good question but irregardless, gp get your flu shot and if you are over 60, get the more potent one.  There are 2 different strengths.


Happening next week.


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## SidecarFlip (Sep 29, 2020)

begreen said:


> Happening next week.


Good ......  and except my apology for the sometimes misspellings.  I'm having an issue with my remote keyboard.  Like I said, there are 2 strengths of vaccines.  The old peoples one (for me, stronger) and the younger set, weaker.

No point in piling on any more than Covid if possible.


----------



## fbelec (Sep 30, 2020)

SidecarFlip said:


> Good ......  and except my apology for the sometimes misspellings.  I'm having an issue with my remote keyboard.  Like I said, there are 2 strengths of vaccines.  The old peoples one (for me, stronger) and the younger set, weaker.
> 
> No point in piling on any more than Covid if possible.



the two strengths are they only at the doctors or cvs and walgreens too. i wasn't aware of this. thank you


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## SidecarFlip (Sep 30, 2020)

fbelec said:


> the two strengths are they only at the doctors or cvs and walgreens too. i wasn't aware of this. thank you


I'm only aware of my MD having it. Don't think you can get it an a drug store, but I could be wong.  Don't hurt to ask.


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## tlc1976 (Oct 1, 2020)

I just had stomach surgery so I had to get the swab. Negative. There were a couple times I wondered when I had a fever but it must have been my allergies turned into a sinus infection.

Now I’m recovering at home. Hopefully soon I will get my fiber internet and I can work from home most of the week. I’m an introvert but it was horrible when we had a lockdown where I couldn’t leave the county, ride the trails, drive to desolate pretty places.

I do miss my girlfriend but I told her to stay away because her daughter runs around everywhere and refuses to mask. She could pass it to me without knowing and my system is weak right now. Our cases have shot up with all the tourists flooding here over the summer.  I even saw Guatemala plates one day.

My niece picked it up in college. She does online classes and doesn’t go out except to work, but her boyfriend and roommates all got it. She’s a couple hours away and isn’t coming home now.


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## begreen (Nov 22, 2020)

Our town has been doing better than average, but our numbers are going up too. I've noticed on Friday that although people are still wearing masks, they are more concerned about getting their busyness done at the store than maintaining a safe distance. We are seeing high caseloads here at the county level and the hospital staff is wearing out. Fortunately, they're not at capacity yet, but there is considerable concern about a major spike concurring with the holidays that will push them over the limit.

Medic21 how are you faring?


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## SidecarFlip (Nov 22, 2020)

SidecarFlip said:


> I'm only aware of my MD having it. Don't think you can get it an a drug store, but I could be wong.  Don't hurt to ask.


I got mine at the hospital pharmacy, the  'old person dose'.  Was ill from it for about 24 hours but I was glad to get it.  Monday I'll get a swab Covid Test, required for my upcoming procedure.  Wife got her's at the same pharmacy but they were out of the old person dose so she got the single dose instead.  Anything is better than a stick in the ear far as I'm concerned.

Good friends of ours have both got it and he's a retired doc too.  She's not doing well, he's doing ok.  So far, so good here.  Being extremely careful and being hermits which is fine with us anyway.

My oncologist told me as soon as it's available to him, I'll get the vaccine.  I'm good with that.  Sooner the better.  Not sure if it will be the 2 spaced injection one or what but I don't care.  Just stick me and I'll be happy.

Virus cases are really going up here.  Think most of it is attributable to people's getting tired of the distancing and masking.  With us, if we go anywhere (rarely), SOP is mask in the pocket to be worn when out of the car, latex gloves when pumping gas and hand sanitizer in the vehicles as an added layer of protection.

One nice advantage of masking is, no one cam see how ugly I really am and by the same token, gals all look good masked up as well.  You cannot tell the ugly ones from the pretty ones.....


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## SpaceBus (Nov 22, 2020)

Our county is going to soon be one of the worst in the state. According to data from a week ago our zip code has no reported cases, but just a few towns over there are double digit case numbers. None of our friends and family are distancing. Seems they have the opinion that a mask will protect them. I think not having any cases in Maine to really speak of has made everyone complacent, hence the rapid increase of cases in this state.


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## thewoodlands (Nov 22, 2020)

begreen said:


> Our town has been doing better than average, but our numbers are going up too. I've noticed on Friday that although people are still wearing masks, they are more concerned about getting their busyness done at the store than maintaining a safe distance. We are seeing high caseloads here at the county level and the hospital staff is wearing out. Fortunately, they're not at capacity yet, but there is considerable concern about a major spike concurring with the holidays that will push them over the limit.
> 
> Medic21 how are you faring?


So far our county only has 13 hospitalized, we've had six deaths since this started. What worries me the most is we have four colleges around our area, so far from any reporting I've seen is they've done a good job stopping a spread once they have a positive case, two of those colleges use a state park in our town for cross country ski practice, we'll see how it plays out.


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## SidecarFlip (Nov 22, 2020)

SpaceBus said:


> Our county is going to soon be one of the worst in the state. According to data from a week ago our zip code has no reported cases, but just a few towns over there are double digit case numbers. None of our friends and family are distancing.* Seems they have the opinion that a mask will protect them.* I think not having any cases in Maine to really speak of has made everyone complacent, hence the rapid increase of cases in this state.



Opinions can kill you (as you know).  Masks don't protect you, they protect others from you shedding the virus through saliva and mucous droplets.  I'm extremely careful when I get around people who don't mask. keep my distance + 6 feet or go the other way.  Depends on where in Maine, my very close friend who lives near Bangor told me they are having a decided uptick in confirmed cases.  Keep in mid that Maine (with the exception of a few urban areas, is mostly rural) and watching the case incidents nationwide, the more dense the per square mile population is, the more cases (and deaths) there are and it stand to reason.  More people in close proximity to each other cause higher transmission rates.

Read an interesting piece from the CDC a few days ago.  The CDC claims that a home made mask with multiple layers of high thread count material is more effective than any commercially procured N95 mask.  I can see that.  The more layers of dense material, the better chance there is of stopping (arresting) air borne droplets of the virus.  Kind of like comparing a high quality furnace filter to a cheap one.  The cheap one works but still passes a good percentage of dust and pollen whereas an expensive one don't/

In our case, my wife and I both wear masks she made from multiple layers (3) of high density (thread count) material and so do our friends east of Bangor and so far it's worked fine.  Besides, my wife's masks are actually pleasing to look at....lol  They, like us, have become 'professional hermits' until at such time we can get vaccinated for the virus.  While no vaccine is totally 100% effective, at this point anything is better than winging it.


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## Medic21 (Nov 22, 2020)

begreen said:


> Our town has been doing better than average, but our numbers are going up too. I've noticed on Friday that although people are still wearing masks, they are more concerned about getting their busyness done at the store than maintaining a safe distance. We are seeing high caseloads here at the county level and the hospital staff is wearing out. Fortunately, they're not at capacity yet, but there is considerable concern about a major spike concurring with the holidays that will push them over the limit.
> 
> Medic21 how are you faring?


Living the dream lol.  Indiana is out of control right now.  We don’t have a bed shortage, we have a provider shortage due to asinine and not thought out quarantine policies for healthcare workers.  You can work with Covid pts day in and day out and then be quarantined because your kid was exposed and quarantined.  It makes no sense and most places are starting to adjust.  One system in the state has 300 or so Covid pts but over 1000 staff quarantined right now between their 25 hospitals.  

Gonna be a long winter.


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## thewoodlands (Nov 22, 2020)

13 new cases today with the deaths staying the same (6) and the amount of people in the hospital down to 10.


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## Sawset (Nov 22, 2020)

My job is relatively isolated.
Goto work, come home, 1 other in the office. Goto Menards to stay stocked in projects, get there when they open, avoid the riffraff. I'm 100% introvert, so it suites me.
Just cancelled air travel to SC, 1000 mi, 6 air ports round trip, Thanksgiving Christmas traffic. Everybody's upset, too bad. 4mo from now, either sht hits the fan or we're going. If the country has a meltdown between then and now, it'll be more than me who will take notice.
Doctors here are in short supply, appointments put off, locations reshuffled. Not sure about the asinine thinking - but factories, medical, all different businesses sending contact traced people home. We're short staffed. But if they we're running around, I get it, my wife gets it, and it gets to the care home where she is at - altavista, people, nice knowing yah. I'm not a doomsdayer, so we'll see. Maybe it's all for nothing. The whole world is sure worked up about it though.


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## SidecarFlip (Nov 22, 2020)

Medic21 said:


> Living the dream lol.  Indiana is out of control right now.  We don’t have a bed shortage, we have a provider shortage due to asinine and not thought out quarantine policies for healthcare workers.  You can work with Covid pts day in and day out and then be quarantined because your kid was exposed and quarantined.  It makes no sense and most places are starting to adjust.  One system in the state has 300 or so Covid pts but over 1000 staff quarantined right now between their 25 hospitals.
> 
> Gonna be a long winter.


In many ways besides the WuFlu I suspect.


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## Highbeam (Nov 23, 2020)

Wife’s an educator with kids coming back to school this week so we have to assume she’s compromised and so is our family. Weird feeling. Now we’re not worried about getting it but worried about giving it.

IMO, Testing is a scam unless to verify the reason that you’re sick. It’s useless to establish that you’re clean since you can immediately pick up the bug after the test.


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## tlc1976 (Nov 23, 2020)

Highbeam said:


> Wife’s an educator with kids coming back to school this week so we have to assume she’s compromised and so is our family. Weird feeling. Now we’re not worried about getting it but worried about giving it.
> 
> IMO, Testing is a scam unless to verify the reason that you’re sick. It’s useless to establish that you’re clean since you can immediately pick up the bug after the test.



Or could have picked it up several days before the test and still be negative.

I haven’t done anything but go to work and to the store once on awhile when needed. But I’m the only one who wears a mask there at work. Most everybody there acts like it’s a joke. I’m not so worried about dying as I am about becoming one of those covid long haulers who have this brain fog and can’t work for months. I also have issues with blood clots so I don’t need another disorder that makes blood clots.

I’m thankful I took advantage of the window to get my long needed stomach/esophagus surgery done a couple months ago, before the hospitals started filling up again.


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## Country Living in VA (Nov 23, 2020)

Seems like ancient history at this point, but I remember when my workplace implemented the mandatory mask usage.  Most people were defiant and not wearing them properly or when entering the building.  After audits using the camera's and threatening write ups, people finally accepted wearing them properly.  This is In a manufacturing plant which runs 24/7.  It has now evolved into a much more complex situation with questionnaire's being filled out as you enter the building.  In order to discourage people from coming in with any type of symptoms, people are being paid (to stay at home) if they can't come in due to any type of symptoms.  All office personnel have been working from home as well (this does create some division of course).  The incentive to stay at home and be paid if you have any symptoms has been grossly abused to say the least.  Need a few days off, let your supervisor know you have a headache and you are covered.  Of course you have to have a dr. excuse to come back and perhaps a COVID test if the dr recommends it.  

With all of the abuse of the paid pandemic, someone has to cover so many have been forced to work on their days off.  The company has had record sales and everyone had been working mandatory overtime for about 3-4 months now anyway.  Now with people having to cover other shifts when people are out for pandemic issues, people are really cranky and tired.  People who were once friendly to each other are now ticked off at people who are laying out all of the time using pandemic pay.

We are all happy to have jobs and know that many people are not so fortunate and out of work.  For all of us who have worked through all of this and not abused the system, we were treated to a $20 gift certificate this summer which on our next pay check, they took six dollars of that out for taxes.


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## SpaceBus (Nov 23, 2020)

Country Living in VA said:


> Seems like ancient history at this point, but I remember when my workplace implemented the mandatory mask usage.  Most people were defiant and not wearing them properly or when entering the building.  After audits using the camera's and threatening write ups, people finally accepted wearing them properly.  This is In a manufacturing plant which runs 24/7.  It has now evolved into a much more complex situation with questionnaire's being filled out as you enter the building.  In order to discourage people from coming in with any type of symptoms, people are being paid (to stay at home) if they can't come in due to any type of symptoms.  All office personnel have been working from home as well (this does create some division of course).  The incentive to stay at home and be paid if you have any symptoms has been grossly abused to say the least.  Need a few days off, let your supervisor know you have a headache and you are covered.  Of course you have to have a dr. excuse to come back and perhaps a COVID test if the dr recommends it.
> 
> With all of the abuse of the paid pandemic, someone has to cover so many have been forced to work on their days off.  The company has had record sales and everyone had been working mandatory overtime for about 3-4 months now anyway.  Now with people having to cover other shifts when people are out for pandemic issues, people are really cranky and tired.  People who were once friendly to each other are now ticked off at people who are laying out all of the time using pandemic pay.
> 
> We are all happy to have jobs and know that many people are not so fortunate and out of work.  For all of us who have worked through all of this and not abused the system, we were treated to a $20 gift certificate this summer which on our next pay check, they took six dollars of that out for taxes.


Honestly it sounds like it is working out well for everyone. Maybe those jealous should just take a hint and take a few paid days off in addition to all that overtime they are making. I'm not able to really earn much of anything due to my compromised immune system. I only get a few hours of online work per week and my military pension doesn't pay much.


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## Country Living in VA (Nov 23, 2020)

SpaceBus said:


> Honestly it sounds like it is working out well for everyone. Maybe those jealous should just take a hint and take a few paid days off in addition to all that overtime they are making. I'm not able to really earn much of anything due to my compromised immune system. I only get a few hours of online work per week and my military pension doesn't pay much.


It is certainly not a jealously thing, but a moral thing of doing the right thing.  When we get to the point where taking a few paid days off when you are really not sick, I do have a problem with that, it is the same thing as stealing.


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## SidecarFlip (Nov 23, 2020)

I get employment offers all the time and I pass on all of them.  I prefer to stay home and I don't need to work anymore anyway, I put in my time at the 'salt mine'.  I want to enjoy my past 65 years as much as I can.  This Wuflu thing has severely crimped that but I have plenty of 'chores' to do around the farm anyway and I hope that by next spring I can resume the normal 'retired life'....


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## SpaceBus (Nov 23, 2020)

Country Living in VA said:


> It is certainly not a jealously thing, but a moral thing of doing the right thing.  When we get to the point where taking a few paid days off when you are really not sick, I do have a problem with that, it is the same thing as stealing.


Stealing? If the workers are so exhausted, why wouldn't they be eligible for paid sick leave? Only fair since they are the ones keeping the record sales going. To say there are folks abusing the policy means you know they are actually taking the paid sick leave while not sick. Not everyone is as tough as everyone else and maybe they needed that time. I don't know if you heard, but we are in the midst of a global pandemic that has killed hundreds of thousands of Americans and maimed even more. My wife isn't as mentally resilient as I am, so I know there are other people out there who are also suffering from invisible wounds and illness that come with the plague.


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## Highbeam (Nov 23, 2020)

Abusing sick leave, even during regular times is a tense topic. Are you sick enough? Our state law prevents me (per our lawyers, don’t ask for the reference) from even asking my reports for fear of intimidation and privacy violation issues.  I can’t even require a doctors note until they exceed three days sick in one week. We refer to it as “three for free”. 

Sick leave is an earned benefit. I have like 18 weeks on the books and I’ll lose it when I retire.


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## SpaceBus (Nov 23, 2020)

What happens if a new employee gets covid? Who is going to pay their bills? If a person is injured, through no fault of their own, off the job then there are few protections in place. All fine and good to say "bad luck" when it isn't someone important to you.


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## SidecarFlip (Nov 23, 2020)

Regardless, theft of time is theft of time, no matter what the mitigating circumstances are.


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## peakbagger (Nov 23, 2020)

BTW, one of the major sticking points of any additional stimulus that the GOP leaders has said is non negotiable is blanket liability waiver for any entity that may have caused someone to get covid. Contrary to the old days, virus's can be tracked pretty closely to determine where a particular strain came from . No doubt there are some law firms just waiting to serve papers. There is already one filed for the Millinocket Maine superspreader event by the family of a deceased elderly lady in a nursing home who was collateral damage.


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## SidecarFlip (Nov 23, 2020)

Love the term 'Super Spreader'.  Reminds me of when I put lime on  my fields.


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## Country Living in VA (Nov 23, 2020)

Highbeam said:


> Abusing sick leave, even during regular times is a tense topic. Are you sick enough? Our state law prevents me (per our lawyers, don’t ask for the reference) from even asking my reports for fear of intimidation and privacy violation issues.  I can’t even require a doctors note until they exceed three days sick in one week. We refer to it as “three for free”.
> 
> Sick leave is an earned benefit. I have like 18 weeks on the books and I’ll lose it when I retire.


I believe that is why many companies have PTO (paid time off) as opposed to terming it "sick leave" or "vacation time".  There are hippa laws in place to protect workers privacy.


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## Highbeam (Nov 23, 2020)

Country Living in VA said:


> I believe that is why many companies have PTO (paid time off) as opposed to terming it "sick leave" or "vacation time".  There are hippa laws in place to protect workers privacy.



Abuse is one of the reasons for PTO but another is pure greed. Companies offer less PTO than the combination of vacation and sick.


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## Nealm66 (Nov 23, 2020)

I caught a head cold week before last. Felt like crap so I stayed home for a week. Used up the last of my 3 days  vacation and was figuring to loose a couple days pay till my sup said there was a 3 day pto thing. Glad it was there. I have to go into houses every day with sometimes elderly or infants. No way was I going in sick not knowing. Tested negative and back to work feeling the 3 day pto is a good thing when it’s being used honestly. Didn’t even know it was a thing till I had to use it.


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## firefighterjake (Nov 24, 2020)

Not sure if it is some other virus or Covid 19, but I've been smacked down in the last week. 

Started on the 13th when everything I ate or drank tasted like metal. Spent the entire weekend and the following two days in bed with a sore throat, cough, no appetite (which is a very, very strange thing for this portly fellow) and no energy. Well, I shouldn't say the entire weekend. I did drag myself to Walgreens for a C-19 test which came back negative. Felt a bit better on Wednesday, but stayed home. Went to work on Thursday and Friday, but on Friday evening I felt even worse than before so I went straight to bed and was there all day on Saturday. Felt a little better on Sunday, but after hauling two wheelbarrow loads of firewood to the porch I was completely tuckered out. Yesterday I broke down and went to the doctor's office. Their verdict is I could either have some other virus which is going around or I'm in the tail end of Covid 19 . . . they said if I wanted I could do the naso-pharyngeal swab test (i.e. where they poke your brain) just to rule things in or out, but the doc said by the time they get the results back I should be about finished with whatever I have anyways. She also explained that the quick swab test is pretty accurate, but like all tests is just a "snapshot in time" and may or may not show Covid. I'll probably never know what I have . . . but I will be happy when I get over it as I am still coughing and have a sore throat.


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## Grizzerbear (Nov 24, 2020)

It's pretty active here where I'm at. My wife is a rn at a clinic in town and they have been swamped. In the last 3 weeks my wife was required to quarantine two different times because of being exposed....both times from providers she works under. Part of it I guess. She says that the hospitals in springfield, bolivar, and lebanon are at or near capacity and she said she has heard in springfield some cases non covid related were being treated in waiting rooms.

 To top that off we found out yesterday that our 5 month old has the flu yesterday and  has been teething for the last month lol. Sucks cause you cant give infants much in way of medicine. She seemed to be better this morning though.
Also found out last night that my wife's 15 year old cousin tested positive for covid yesterday. So far she hasn't had many symptoms other than the feeling of heavy sinus pressure and loss of taste. She said she noticed something was wrong when at lunch at school she couldn't taste her oreos lol.

All that being said we are being safe as we can. My wife is a clean freak and every night after work she comes home.....strips clothes straight into washer.....showers.....and then goes to town cleaning door knobs, doors, counters, you name it. Me....I'm a introvert as well so it suits me. I work with a crew of just 5 other guys and i dont dally around in town...i come straight home. 

When it's all said and done I will be happy. I know its serious but damn I'm tired of hearing about it on the news. My wife's a nervous wreck dealing with the covid cases at work and trying to keep from bringing it back to the kids.


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## SpaceBus (Nov 24, 2020)

firefighterjake said:


> Not sure if it is some other virus or Covid 19, but I've been smacked down in the last week.
> 
> Started on the 13th when everything I ate or drank tasted like metal. Spent the entire weekend and the following two days in bed with a sore throat, cough, no appetite (which is a very, very strange thing for this portly fellow) and no energy. Well, I shouldn't say the entire weekend. I did drag myself to Walgreens for a C-19 test which came back negative. Felt a bit better on Wednesday, but stayed home. Went to work on Thursday and Friday, but on Friday evening I felt even worse than before so I went straight to bed and was there all day on Saturday. Felt a little better on Sunday, but after hauling two wheelbarrow loads of firewood to the porch I was completely tuckered out. Yesterday I broke down and went to the doctor's office. Their verdict is I could either have some other virus which is going around or I'm in the tail end of Covid 19 . . . they said if I wanted I could do the naso-pharyngeal swab test (i.e. where they poke your brain) just to rule things in or out, but the doc said by the time they get the results back I should be about finished with whatever I have anyways. She also explained that the quick swab test is pretty accurate, but like all tests is just a "snapshot in time" and may or may not show Covid. I'll probably never know what I have . . . but I will be happy when I get over it as I am still coughing and have a sore throat.


My wife is an LPN and took the contact tracer course for healthcare workers and she advises you get tested again, just to be sure. It might be a snapshot in time, but it might also be super important if you don't get better. Covid is burning through Maine it seems right now. I hope everything is ok and you do get better.


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## SidecarFlip (Nov 24, 2020)

Little swab up the nose, no big deal.  Takes about a minute.


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## thewoodlands (Nov 24, 2020)

After 70 -80 new cases Saturday thru today  our county stopped listing the places where exposures have or will take place because they say the virus is so widespread,  we also just had 3 new deaths with the average age being 77.

I'm pretty sure we started this November with just over 409 cases but today we have a total of 761 with 124 active cases.

Info from our State & County

Total Positive Cases to Date : 761
Active Positive Cases : 124
Recovered Cases : 628
Current Hospitalizations : 12
Deaths to Date: 9
Total Number Tested : 112,732
County Population: 108,047


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## SidecarFlip (Nov 24, 2020)

If people just did what they are supposed to, mask up, social distance and didn't congregate in groups, what is happening now would probably not happen.  Every time I see someone with no mask on a retail establishment like s tore, I cringe and of course get as far from them as possible.


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## tlc1976 (Nov 24, 2020)

Our health department also just stopped listing exposure sites. They said your safety is your responsibility.

I just went to the gas station today and 3 unmasked guys walked in before me. Nobody at my work seems to take it seriously but me. Nobody else masks or distances. Some are sending links that masks are bad and the virus is fake news from Democrats, and saying things like “take that pissy diaper off your face”. One guy just went on a job site in South America and was right back in the office the next day. Him, the vp, and owner were all in the cubicle joking about the virus, unmasked of course.


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## Medic21 (Nov 24, 2020)

SidecarFlip said:


> If people just did what they are supposed to, mask up, social distance and didn't congregate in groups, what is happening now would probably not happen.  Every time I see someone with no mask on a retail establishment like s tore, I cringe and of course get as far from them as possible.


A little about PPE.  We went from treating this like the plague in EMS.  Tyvek suits, respirators, double gloved, showering after every possible exposure, the list  on and on.  
Now it’s a surgical mask, uniform, and gloves.  I’ll wear glasses if I intubate and N95 if I intubate but, we are not wearing all the stuff in the field anymore.  I don’t know much but, I do know for the most part we have been ok and most cases are traced to home for medical workers not, work.  In fact it was our 17 year old that brought it in our house not me or the wife that work in healthcare.  I say that because I know for a fact the she wore a mask at all times when she was out and still got it.  I don’t believe in the masks and there is no absolute with them.


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## Medic21 (Nov 24, 2020)

Oh, and me and the wife never got it from the kid either.


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## SidecarFlip (Nov 24, 2020)

Knowing of 2 folks that died from it and 4 others that had it but survived and are still have issues, I'd say it's nothing to fool with.  One of my close friends, a retired Doctor got it and his wife as well and they aren't doing well and I'd say he was very careful but all it takes is a person shedding it unmasked and you walk near them and wham you have it.  You may not have an adverse reaction but then you may and you may die from it.  Me, I prefer to expire in a less gruesome manner.  I don't want to drown in my own bodily fluids, don't seem all the wonderful to me.

I see you are in Michigan like me.  Was my understanding that the governor mandated masks in all public places.  While I may or may not agree with that, the bottom line to me is, a mask is the first line of prevention, the first line to keep your exhaled aerosols in the mask and not floating about where they may infect someone else.  That someone else is an innocent bystander.  I would never want that on my conscience.

To me, the mask wearing thing is more about respecting others than being a 'diaper wearer'.

I do know that when the vaccine is available I'll be getting it ASAP and I'll probably be on the priority list with my pre existing condition.  My oncologist told me as soon as it's available he would let me know so I can get it.  I understand it's a 2 injection deal.  First one, not bad, a week later the second and you get sick from the second one but I'd rather be sick for a couple days than dead.

heck, I got sick from the flu shot a few months ago.  I get the 'old person flu shot', a double dose.  I was deathly ill for about 12 hours and then the sick part vanished.  Got mine at the hospital right in my infusion lab where I get my port accessed every month.

I've been really sick in the not too distant past, on life support and it's not a pleasant experience.

Long as I can stay relatively healthy and on this side of the dirt, I'm happy.  Like the saying goes...  You are a long time dead.


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## SidecarFlip (Nov 24, 2020)

Medic21 said:


> A little about PPE.  We went from treating this like the plague in EMS.  Tyvek suits, respirators, double gloved, showering after every possible exposure, the list  on and on.
> Now it’s a surgical mask, uniform, and gloves.  I’ll wear glasses if I intubate and N95 if I intubate but, we are not wearing all the stuff in the field anymore.  I don’t know much but, I do know for the most part we have been ok and most cases are traced to home for medical workers not, work.  In fact it was our 17 year old that brought it in our house not me or the wife that work in healthcare.  I say that because I know for a fact the she wore a mask at all times when she was out and still got it.  I don’t believe in the masks and there is no absolute with them.


I look at the mask only as a first line of defense.  Best bet is staying sequestered away from strangers, especially questionable ones which isn't an issue for me or my wife as neither of us are friendly people anyway.  We are perfectly happy being with each other and the cats...lol  Well she's happy with the cats, me, not so much.

Touching on a verboten subject on here, I blame Trump for a lot of what has transpired.  He made it a political thing and it isn't.  No virus or disease should have political overtones.


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## Medic21 (Nov 25, 2020)

SidecarFlip said:


> I look at the mask only as a first line of defense.  Best bet is staying sequestered away from strangers, especially questionable ones which isn't an issue for me or my wife as neither of us are friendly people anyway.  We are perfectly happy being with each other and the cats...lol  Well she's happy with the cats, me, not so much.
> 
> Touching on a verboten subject on here, I blame Trump for a lot of what has transpired.  He made it a political thing and it isn't.  No virus or disease should have political overtones.


I really don’t want to turn to politics.   I can’t stand Trump but, it’s the media that politicized this.  The media has made it the mess it is.  

I cut out all news sites from my life a few months ago and haven’t been happier in years.


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## fbelec (Nov 25, 2020)

the only way {those people that thing this is a joke} is to get it or a loved one to get it before they take this serious. there is no changing them. they are also the 15 to 30 something that if they get it won't be to much to them so they don't care. for them selves or the people around them. we just had a 60 something year old guy that came across to people walking a trail in the woods that because he's wearing a mask and the two people were not he came at them with his mask down spitting at them and told them that he had covid 19. here is a prime candidate that should get it. you see someone that is not wearing a mask go in the other direction. so because of his stupidity he has been arrested and put thru a test and might see jail time for the threat.


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## SpaceBus (Nov 25, 2020)

Medic21 said:


> A little about PPE.  We went from treating this like the plague in EMS.  Tyvek suits, respirators, double gloved, showering after every possible exposure, the list  on and on.
> Now it’s a surgical mask, uniform, and gloves.  I’ll wear glasses if I intubate and N95 if I intubate but, we are not wearing all the stuff in the field anymore.  I don’t know much but, I do know for the most part we have been ok and most cases are traced to home for medical workers not, work.  In fact it was our 17 year old that brought it in our house not me or the wife that work in healthcare.  I say that because I know for a fact the she wore a mask at all times when she was out and still got it.  I don’t believe in the masks and there is no absolute with them.


That might be the case where you are, but other places are still wearing max PPE. I think it is more of a supply issue. Nothing in this world is absolute, but we all wear seatbelts despite the risk of an asteroid destroying our car without warning.


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## kennyp2339 (Nov 25, 2020)

Still doing decently good, over the beginning of Summer I kind of felt my mental health taking a decline, that was through the unknowns of this virus, the possible looming 2nd wave, and the thinking shutdowns / shortages from shutdowns. Sitting here the day before thanksgiving and I would say I feel pretty good, everything is well stocked, I'm keeping busy and have gotten use to gathering / hanging out with distance. On the plus side of things, and not to make light of the situation, I haven't contracted my usual fall cold this year, normally I kick off November with some type of sinus issue, so I'm happy about not getting that. 
I am concerned for the age group ahead of me, I'm in my mid 30's and maybe an animally here, but I see the age group  ahead of me (40-65) that seem to have the biggest problems with following rules, not understanding or complying with social distancing,  more or less demonstrate self entitlement behavior. 
I was working a storm for the power co a week ago and you wouldnt believe all the people that came out screaming about not having electric, we can take a beating here and there, but it was the age group of 40-65 that were losing there marbles, had to be in our faces and of course, maskless. Never mind the poor lady in her late 20's early 30's with 2 toddlers that just more or less agreed the power was out due to the weather and generally thankful that we were there to fix it, just unbelievable.


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## Grizzerbear (Nov 25, 2020)

fbelec said:


> the only way {those people that thing this is a joke} is to get it or a loved one to get it before they take this serious. there is no changing them. they are also the 15 to 30 something that if they get it won't be to much to them so they don't care. for them selves or the people around them. we just had a 60 something year old guy that came across to people walking a trail in the woods that because he's wearing a mask and the two people were not he came at them with his mask down spitting at them and told them that he had covid 19. here is a prime candidate that should get it. you see someone that is not wearing a mask go in the other direction. so because of his stupidity he has been arrested and put thru a test and might see jail time for the threat.


If that guy was in missouri he would have assault charges filed against him. If he was positive for covid it would have just stepped up charges.


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## firefighterjake (Nov 25, 2020)

SpaceBus said:


> My wife is an LPN and took the contact tracer course for healthcare workers and she advises you get tested again, just to be sure. It might be a snapshot in time, but it might also be super important if you don't get better. Covid is burning through Maine it seems right now. I hope everything is ok and you do get better.



Doc said it was optional . . . she said it would rule things in or out, but by the time the test results come back chances are whatever I have -- whether another virus or Covid 19 -- should be done and over. A test will be necessary should I not get better.

Meanwhile, it looks like we may have our first case here at work . . . it was only a matter of time I suspect as we are hauling patients with Covid 19 or suspected Covid 19 all of the time.


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## peakbagger (Nov 25, 2020)

Our rural county in NH was doing good with few cases except for a few big city folks moving up here and bringing it with them. The town next to me informed one of these carriers that they they were quarantined for two weeks even before they knew they had it and made sure the folks did not leave their summer house.  Then a few weeks ago it got into part of local federal prison by visitors from out of state and then somehow a supplier to the prison passed it to a nursing home. They caught the early stages  too late and more than half the residents got it and a bunch of the staff. Staff that have it are still going to work if they can as there are  no relief workers available. Except for the nursing home cluster the rest of the areas numbers are low to zero and even the prison seems to have got things undercontrol. The funny thing is there are still people fighting the masks. 

Its going to be sad to see the inevitable videos of family  members crying  about passed and ill loved ones caused by them thinking they could beat the odds and have a good old thanksgiving .


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## Sawset (Nov 25, 2020)

kennyp2339 said:


> On the plus side of things, and not to make light of the situation, I haven't contracted my usual fall cold this year, normally I kick off November with some type of sinus issue, so I'm happy about not getting that.


Last fall, nephew and his wife commented about all of the pneumonia (multiple times), and other "crud" their 5yr old son kept bringing home to their family.  And wouldn't you know, thanksgiving last year he  gave it to both of us too.  All of that I don't miss.


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## SidecarFlip (Nov 25, 2020)

I find it interesting that the more urbanized an area is, the more frequent the cases and deaths are.  Stands to reason though.  Concentrations of people raise the chances of contracting any virus from Covid to the Asian flu.  Glad I live in a very rural setting with not many people around, most of which I can avoid anyway.  People today don't respect others and only care about themselves.  The 'American' way today.  Whatever makes you feel good and pizz on everyone else.  I purposely stay out of urban areas just for that reason.


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## SpaceBus (Nov 25, 2020)

peakbagger said:


> Our rural county in NH was doing good with few cases except for a few big city folks moving up here and bringing it with them. The town next to me informed one of these carriers that they they were quarantined for two weeks even before they knew they had it and made sure the folks did not leave their summer house.  Then a few weeks ago it got into part of local federal prison by visitors from out of state and then somehow a supplier to the prison passed it to a nursing home. They caught the early stages  too late and more than half the residents got it and a bunch of the staff. Staff that have it are still going to work if they can as there are  no relief workers available. Except for the nursing home cluster the rest of the areas numbers are low to zero and even the prison seems to have got things undercontrol. The funny thing is there are still people fighting the masks.
> 
> Its going to be sad to see the inevitable videos of family  members crying  about passed and ill loved ones caused by them thinking they could beat the odds and have a good old thanksgiving .


I suspect things here are going about the same as where you are. Lots of pushback on the masks and distancing. Many local families are committed to having a giant feast, the local organic poultry farm sold out of turkeys weeks ago.


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## SidecarFlip (Nov 25, 2020)

I have a distinct dislike for turkey meat, wild or domesticated, we don't eat it here.  Standing Rib roast here (Prime rib).  Go turkey hunting every year but I never load the firearm.  I just call them in and observe them, fun to watch.  Eat, not so much.  Never could bring myself to eat something so dumb as domesticated turkey, they are so dumb that if their ration isn't right in front of them, they die from starvation and same with water.  Not in front of them they die from lack of water.  Wild turkeys can at least forage for food, but still pretty dumb and the meat is tough as shoeleather.  Only thing edible is the breast meat and even that is marginal.

I'll pass.  Give me prime rib instead, I like to eat what tastes good, tradition or not.  Tje pilgrims ate turkey because that was all there was available not because it was good.


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## SidecarFlip (Nov 25, 2020)

I have a feeling that Biden will invoke (by fiat), a national mask mandate with some sort of penalty for not complying.  Should be interesting.  Stay tuned....


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## Medic21 (Nov 25, 2020)

SpaceBus said:


> That might be the case where you are, but other places are still wearing max PPE. I think it is more of a supply issue. Nothing in this world is absolute, but we all wear seatbelts despite the risk of an asteroid destroying our car without warning.


We have plenty of PPE.  We understand the transmission better and understand that there was a lot of overkill with PPE early on.  Normal patient contacts, even Covid positive,  that are capable of wearing a surgical mask They wear one and I wear one.  If the pt is intubated then a viral filter is placed and we are probably the safest of anything at that point.  

I have not worn a gown in 6-7 months in an ambulance. My uniforms don’t come home and are washed at work. I shower before I leave and wear clean clothes.

I think a lot of people don’t realize stopping at a gas station on the way home is just as dangerous as transporting a patient in the ambulance.


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## MTASH (Nov 25, 2020)

kennyp2339 said:


> I am concerned for the age group ahead of me, I'm in my mid 30's and maybe an animally here, but I see the age group  ahead of me (40-65) that seem to have the biggest problems with following rules, not understanding or complying with social distancing,  more or less demonstrate self entitlement behavior.
> I was working a storm for the power co a week ago and you wouldnt believe all the people that came out screaming about not having electric, we can take a beating here and there, but it was the age group of 40-65 that were losing there marbles, had to be in our faces and of course, maskless. Never mind the poor lady in her late 20's early 30's with 2 toddlers that just more or less agreed the power was out due to the weather and generally thankful that we were there to fix it, just unbelievable.



It's because you're referring to the younger half of the ME generation (Baby Boomers), and GenX who were primarily raised by the ME generation. I don't intend this to be a blanket statement but there is a trend there.

I had to go to the DMV yesterday to take care of something necessary to do in person.  There were around 6 of us in the room at the time.  One woman came in without a mask, and proceeded to let her 4-5(?) year old run rampant.  The DMV has strict rules concerning abusive language and conduct, but for some reason this was ignored despite the posted mask requirement.  I could get fined $100 for cussing or being obnoxious, but her behavior was overlooked.  I couldn't get out of there fast enough.


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## Medic21 (Nov 25, 2020)

SidecarFlip said:


> I find it interesting that the more urbanized an area is, the more frequent the cases and deaths are.  Stands to reason though.  Concentrations of people raise the chances of contracting any virus from Covid to the Asian flu.  Glad I live in a very rural setting with not many people around, most of which I can avoid anyway.  People today don't respect others and only care about themselves.  The 'American' way today.  Whatever makes you feel good and pizz on everyone else.  I purposely stay out of urban areas just for that reason.


Viruses are parasites.  They need hosts and will spread faster in populated areas.


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## SpaceBus (Nov 25, 2020)

Medic21 said:


> We have plenty of PPE.  We understand the transmission better and understand that there was a lot of overkill with PPE early on.  Normal patient contacts, even Covid positive,  that are capable of wearing a surgical mask They wear one and I wear one.  If the pt is intubated then a viral filter is placed and we are probably the safest of anything at that point.
> 
> I have not worn a gown in 6-7 months in an ambulance. My uniforms don’t come home and are washed at work. I shower before I leave and wear clean clothes.
> 
> I think a lot of people don’t realize stopping at a gas station on the way home is just as dangerous as transporting a patient in the ambulance.


I definitely agree on the last part.


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## SidecarFlip (Nov 25, 2020)

Medic21 said:


> We have plenty of PPE.  We understand the transmission better and understand that there was a lot of overkill with PPE early on.  Normal patient contacts, even Covid positive,  that are capable of wearing a surgical mask They wear one and I wear one.  If the pt is intubated then a viral filter is placed and we are probably the safest of anything at that point.
> 
> I have not worn a gown in 6-7 months in an ambulance. My uniforms don’t come home and are washed at work. I shower before I leave and wear clean clothes.
> 
> *I think a lot of people don’t realize stopping at a gas station on the way home is just as dangerous as transporting a patient in the ambulance.*




I do and so does my wife, which is why we only use self serve pumps (credit card insertion payment). wear disposable latex gloves when handling the filler nozzle (because you have no idea who handled it before you and / or where their hands were when they used it).  One of the most germ laden things you can touch is the gasoline filler nozzle.  After filling the tank we always use hand saitizer before motoring away.  The disposable gloves go in the trash can (which is always by the pump anyway).

We NEVER go inside and gas station and especially NEVER use the bathrooms.  Same goes with public rest areas on freeways.  I never use them.  If I have to go, I'll find an off ramp that is somewhat secluded, open the door and whizz in the grass and hope I don't have to do Number 2, but I always have a roll of TP in the vehicle just in case and I'd do the same for that if necessary.

Like when I farm.  I carry a roll of TP in every tractor, always have.  Out in the field, I just take a leak and if it's a Number 2, I do the 'farmers squat' next to the tractor tire and 'fertilize' the ground.  No big deal.  Always done that anyway.

Gas stations are generally filthy breeding grounds for germs, from the counters to the rest rooms.  Don't do that, ever.

A bit of common sense with the virus goes a long way towards not catching it but then people today, lot of them lack basic common sense anyway.  I look at it like 'survival of the fittest'.  In nature it's natural selection, the fittest and strongest survive.  The others don't.  Natural selection don't apply with humans because of artificially placed 'helpers' that are there to insure the lesser humans can survive.  Not good in my view but then my view of natural selection and survivability isn't the popular view.


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## SidecarFlip (Nov 25, 2020)

Medic21 said:


> Viruses are parasites. They need hosts and will spread faster in populated areas


  Statement of the year there.................


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## paulnlee (Nov 25, 2020)

SidecarFlip said:


> I have a distinct dislike for turkey meat, wild or domesticated, we don't eat it here.  Standing Rib roast here (Prime rib).  Go turkey hunting every year but I never load the firearm.  I just call them in and observe them, fun to watch.  Eat, not so much.  Never could bring myself to eat something so dumb as domesticated turkey, they are so dumb that if their ration isn't right in front of them, they die from starvation and same with water.  Not in front of them they die from lack of water.  Wild turkeys can at least forage for food, but still pretty dumb and the meat is tough as shoeleather.  Only thing edible is the breast meat and even that is marginal.
> 
> I'll pass.  Give me prime rib instead, I like to eat what tastes good, tradition or not.  Tje pilgrims ate turkey because that was all there was available not because it was good.


The Adventures of the Sidney Road Turkey - Franklin Township, NJ (franklin-twp.org) This guy wasn't dumb. He ran this road for months, covered about 1/4 mile harassing cars. Funny as hell. Finally got relocated to a refuge.


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## fbelec (Nov 26, 2020)

not meaning to sound harsh but thinking about what was said about survival take a good look around this world is gearing up for stupid people.


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## fbelec (Nov 26, 2020)

Grizzerbear said:


> If that guy was in missouri he would have assault charges filed against him. If he was positive for covid it would have just stepped up charges.


they did arrest him and one of the charges is assault and one more might be a form of terrorism or something on the line


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## Fingerlakes Fireplace (Nov 26, 2020)

SidecarFlip said:


> I have a feeling that Biden will invoke (by fiat), a national mask mandate with some sort of penalty for not complying.  Should be interesting.  Stay tuned....


More people are wearing masks than ever before.  And yet we have skyrocketing cases. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out  masks do not work.


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## SidecarFlip (Nov 26, 2020)

Far as I'm concerned what does is being a hermit and my wife and I are professionals at it.  I have not put gas in my car in at least 2 months.  I should start it and let the battery charge up.  I use the farm tractors more than the car..  No where to go or at least want to go.


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## fbelec (Nov 27, 2020)

Furnace To Fireplace said:


> More people are wearing masks than ever before.  And yet we have skyrocketing cases. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out  masks do not work.


the mask takes the majority of the contagious part out but people don't realize the the mask has a life span so they get the virus or it comes from people who don't wear one they take it home and it spread like wildfire. or you might wear a mask and no gloves and touch something they touched and touch your eye or nose and even tho you wore a mask you get the virus and spread it around for a few days til you finally feel like crap and discover you have it. if nobody wore a mask we would or most of us would have had the virus by now.


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## SidecarFlip (Nov 27, 2020)

When handling anything, newer touch your eyes, pick your nose or suck your fingers because your head is hollow, not to insult anyone but it is.  Everything in your skull is interconnected with sinus passages so you can introduce the virus in a number of ways.  Just handling a used mask and touching your eyes can infect you.  We wear 4 layer masks my wife made and they go right in the hot water wash when we get home with strong detergent and we us a ton of hand sanitizer (which is also good for starting my manual star pellet burner and cheaper than the Rutland gelled firestarter to boot (and it smells good.  The rutland stuff stinks.

So far, so good here.  I have a covid test coming up monday morning, I'm 99% sure I'll pass.  I better pass, my radiation treatments start the next day.  I'm getting 6 which means 5 covid tests.  Up my nose with a rubber hose, I mean swab.


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## fbelec (Nov 27, 2020)

SidecarFlip said:


> When handling anything, newer touch your eyes, pick your nose or suck your fingers because your head is hollow, not to insult anyone but it is.  Everything in your skull is interconnected with sinus passages so you can introduce the virus in a number of ways.  Just handling a used mask and touching your eyes can infect you.  We wear 4 layer masks my wife made and they go right in the hot water wash when we get home with strong detergent and we us a ton of hand sanitizer (which is also good for starting my manual star pellet burner and cheaper than the Rutland gelled firestarter to boot (and it smells good.  The rutland stuff stinks.
> 
> So far, so good here.  I have a covid test coming up monday morning, I'm 99% sure I'll pass.  I better pass, my radiation treatments start the next day.  I'm getting 6 which means 5 covid tests.  Up my nose with a rubber hose, I mean swab.


best of luck


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## Fingerlakes Fireplace (Nov 27, 2020)

fbelec said:


> the mask takes the majority of the contagious part out but people don't realize the the mask has a life span so they get the virus or it comes from people who don't wear one they take it home and it spread like wildfire. or you might wear a mask and no gloves and touch something they touched and touch your eye or nose and even tho you wore a mask you get the virus and spread it around for a few days til you finally feel like crap and discover you have it. if nobody wore a mask we would or most of us would have had the virus by now.


Maybe. 
I meet many people that are so concerned about wearing a mask, yet have no problem touching things that i just touched.
Very obvious proof that something in they're head isnt working! 
(Lack of oxygen from wearing a mask?)


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## SpaceBus (Nov 27, 2020)

Furnace To Fireplace said:


> More people are wearing masks than ever before.  And yet we have skyrocketing cases. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out  masks do not work.


Why would you think the two are related? Correlation is not equal to causation. The cases are spiking because there is more testing than ever before and folks are spending a lot more time indoors and spreading the virus where people aren't wearing mask. The evidence is quite contrary to how you feel, and you can see this in the low transmission rates among elementary students, who are forced to wear masks and follow all the social distancing rules. Adults have more rights and you can't force them to stay in one place and not transmit the disease.

Please don't spread misinformation.


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## kennyp2339 (Nov 27, 2020)

The whole mask issue brings up a valid point in general, I wear a mask when out and about in public area's, I dont wear a mask when home or working alone, one of the overlooked things about mask wearing, especially with cloth masks is to wash them every day and make sure they are dry before wearing, best to keep a few in rotation. 
As far as the questionability of how effective they are, I go on medical calls all the time with the fire dept, I haven't contracted anything yet, not even my normal seasonal colds, so I'll take my chance of being a little over protective, rather the latter.


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## SpaceBus (Nov 27, 2020)

If memory serves then overall influenza cases are also down this season due to mask wearing. In the last few hundred years face masks have been the first line of defense against an airborne/aerosol pathogen.


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## Medic21 (Nov 27, 2020)

SpaceBus said:


> Why would you think the two are related? Correlation is not equal to causation. The cases are spiking because there is more testing than ever before and folks are spending a lot more time indoors and spreading the virus where people aren't wearing mask. The evidence is quite contrary to how you feel, and you can see this in the low transmission rates among elementary students, who are forced to wear masks and follow all the social distancing rules. Adults have more rights and you can't force them to stay in one place and not transmit the disease.
> 
> Please don't spread misinformation.


If your using a mask to protect yourself then it doesn’t work, that had been proven.  They will protect someone from you if your contagious.  

Elementary students are just as likely to be asymptomatic as they are to not have it.  That is the reason cases are skyrocketing.  When 40% of cases have no symptoms and people spread it around without knowing it.  That combined with the exponentially higher testing from 7 months ago.


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## stoveliker (Nov 27, 2020)

Have been at home since March. Lucky I can work from home, so the paycheck comes in normally. Got gas twice during this time...
Walk around the neighborhood, to the beach, and a masked trip to the grocery store every now and then.
While I am more introvert than extrovert, I'd be happy to go to the office again every now and then.

The wife works in nursing homes and a hospital. Was brutal in spring and early summer, gowns, face shields etc. Now cases are rising again in the hospital: 2 pts two weeks ago, 20+ now.
She's back to N95s, safety glasses (no shield or gown). Will be a tough winter I think.

Kids have been back to school since September, but given the near daily calls with notifications that 2-4 students are now quarantined, and the full driveways I noticed yesterday evening (Thanksgiving parties), I suspect that I will be working, schooling, and supporting an overloaded wife again very soon.

Glad the vaccines efforts seem to not be disappointing.

My view on masks is that you don't give up anything (no freedom lost) other than showing your handsome faces - a debatable thing normally and more so with my covid beard...
So it doesn't cost much, but it might save the life of someone's grandparent. Isn't that a good deal? Just like stopping for a traffic light. Not much lost, but you might end up NOT causing someone to die. Even if one believes masks are useless, there is always a finite chance it helps. And when the experts say it does, then yes they may be wrong, but odds are they are not. Same as getting tree felling advice here...

My two cents. I hope we'll all get through this. Be well.


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## SpaceBus (Nov 27, 2020)

Medic21 said:


> If your using a mask to protect yourself then it doesn’t work, that had been proven.  They will protect someone from you if your contagious.
> 
> Elementary students are just as likely to be asymptomatic as they are to not have it.  That is the reason cases are skyrocketing.  When 40% of cases have no symptoms and people spread it around without knowing it.  That combined with the exponentially higher testing from 7 months ago.


Agree to disagree, as I am getting my data from the Maine and US CDC. The contact tracing data shows that the teachers and staff are the ones bringing it to the schools. The children don't give it to themselves as they are all distanced and masked. To say a mask does nothing is 100% disinformation and has little basis in truth. Sure, the virus particles are small enough to pass through the mask, but they are often bound to water vapors which do not pass through the mask. As temperatures get colder the virus is more easily spread in part to the dry air, which facilitates transmission, and of course folks being inside, seeing other families and generally traveling between households. 

It has been proven that the mask ads an additional layer of protection and it is foolish to not wear one. A seatbelt won't save you from being hit head on by an ambulance or large truck, but we all wear one. 

Saying the masks don't help is doing this country and people you love a great disservice.


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## SpaceBus (Nov 27, 2020)

Also, the previous 1918 pandemic ended shortly after masks were mandated when not in the home and folks were isolating. I don't think that is a coincidence.


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## Medic21 (Nov 27, 2020)

Very interesting read.  I agree with a lot in this article.  I agree that Covid is a disease that needs to be taken seriously also.  









						A few days ago Johns Hopkins published a study saying corona is nbd. They then deleted it. Read it here in its entirety.
					

Johns Hopkins published this study on Sunday which posits that Covid is nowhere near the disaster we're being told it is. I would summarize it for you or offer pull-quotes but honestly you just have to read it yourself because it's mind-blowing. The original article is now deleted from the Johns...




					notthebee.com


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## Medic21 (Nov 27, 2020)

SpaceBus said:


> Agree to disagree, as I am getting my data from the Maine and US CDC. The contact tracing data shows that the teachers and staff are the ones bringing it to the schools. The children don't give it to themselves as they are all distanced and masked. To say a mask does nothing is 100% disinformation and has little basis in truth. Sure, the virus particles are small enough to pass through the mask, but they are often bound to water vapors which do not pass through the mask. As temperatures get colder the virus is more easily spread in part to the dry air, which facilitates transmission, and of course folks being inside, seeing other families and generally traveling between households.
> 
> It has been proven that the mask ads an additional layer of protection and it is foolish to not wear one. A seatbelt won't save you from being hit head on by an ambulance or large truck, but we all wear one.
> 
> Saying the masks don't help is doing this country and people you love a great disservice.


Contact tracing here is showing the healthcare people that get it are not getting it at work.  I did not say mask do nothing.  I said that they will not protect you from someone not wearing a mask.  There is a reason that 70% of those testing positive were wearing masks religiously and still got sick. 

We know now that a N95 won’t protect you if you're doing a procedure or treatment that aerosolizes the virus.


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## gggvan (Nov 28, 2020)

Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)
					

CDC provides credible COVID-19 health information to the U.S.




					www.cdc.gov
				




_The prevention benefit of masking is derived from the combination of source control and personal protection for the mask wearer. The relationship between source control and personal protection is likely complementary and possibly synergistic14, so that individual benefit increases with increasing community mask use _


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## SpaceBus (Nov 28, 2020)

A mask alone certainly won't protect, it's more about the wearer and their choices. I have coworkers that wear masks in public, but they don't do anything else differently. They seem to think the mask makes them invulnerable. As mentioned with medical procedures even N95 won't save you, but this is a exposure time related thing. If you spend longer than five minutes in close proximity to a person, they better be from your household, because after that the risk is just screaming ever upwards and no mask or hazmat gear will be enough protection.


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## SidecarFlip (Nov 28, 2020)

Ah yes, do what you want, just don't do it in front of me (less than 6 feet) that is.............


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## Fingerlakes Fireplace (Nov 28, 2020)

Medic21 said:


> Very interesting read.  I agree with a lot in this article.  I agree that Covid is a disease that needs to be taken seriously also.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I wish i could give this 5 stars.
Everyone should know about this study.


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## SidecarFlip (Nov 28, 2020)

Personally speaking, I don't hold a lot of credence in studies or polls.  I do hold credence in not contracting it and so far neither my wife nor I have (thought it's all around us) or the medial would have you believe that.  If it's true or not remains to be seen.

To that end, we will continue to do what we have been doing, nothing changes with us.

Finally, Covid has become and is a vehicle for political trampling of personal rights and to that end, I'm pretty disgusted with not only the media, but politicians in general.

Simply put, in my view it's not what it is purported to be.  Common flu kills as many as...Automobile accidents kill more just like drug and alcohol abuse.


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## begreen (Nov 28, 2020)

Furnace To Fireplace said:


> I wish i could give this 5 stars.
> Everyone should know about this study.


The study was a brief slice in time, early on. It can be and was misinterpreted by some. This can be the selective and sometimes misleading nature of statistics. This disease has been with us for less than a year. Looking back, objectively, some true patterns will emerge. Trivializing this disease is fallacious and insensitive.
Here is the October CDC mortality report. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6942e2.htm

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and *statistics*." - Mark Twain


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## SpaceBus (Nov 28, 2020)

begreen said:


> The study was a brief slice in time, early on. It can be and was misinterpreted by some. This can be the selective and sometimes misleading nature of statistics. This disease has been with us for less than a year. Looking back, objectively, some true patterns will emerge. Trivializing this disease is fallacious and insensitive.
> Here is the October CDC mortality report. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6942e2.htm
> 
> "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and *statistics*." - Mark Twain



Disinformation using statistics is one of the greatest threats to our lives right now


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## Sawset (Nov 28, 2020)

begreen said:


> The study was a brief slice in time, early on. It can be and was misinterpreted by some. This can be the selective and sometimes misleading nature of statistics. This disease has been with us for less than a year. Looking back, objectively, some true patterns will emerge. Trivializing this disease is fallacious and insensitive.
> Here is the October CDC mortality report. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6942e2.htm
> 
> "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and *statistics*." - Mark Twain


And there could be 3 types of responses.
Buy it at face value, until the next statistic comes along. These are my principles, if you don't like them, I have others.
Or, consider it, with skeptisim and apply  additional research. Kind of like how science looks at things.
Or, dismiss it out of hand, until something to my liking appears, then defend that till the end. 
I happen to find articles like this intriguing, yet confusing. As in, there isn't a consensus yet on cause and effect. There are enough variables to muddy the water to keep us all guessing.  I'll keep stuff like this in the back of my mind, and see if they pan out. But my day to day activities won't change, and probably won't for some time regardless of ideas to the contrary.​


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## Fingerlakes Fireplace (Nov 28, 2020)

begreen said:


> The study was a brief slice in time, early on. It can be and was misinterpreted by some. This can be the selective and sometimes misleading nature of statistics. This disease has been with us for less than a year. Looking back, objectively, some true patterns will emerge. Trivializing this disease is fallacious and insensitive.
> Here is the October CDC mortality report. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6942e2.htm
> 
> "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and *statistics*." - Mark Twain


What I see in that graph, is that at the end of September, we are headed to below AVERAGE deaths total.
We have a big spike of deaths in the spring, which is understandable as this is a NEW virus.
Deadly???  Yes, to the immune compromised. To everyone else, just a virus(nasty flu) that we have to get immune to.
What a lot of people dont know is, that your immune system gets stronger with use.


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## begreen (Nov 28, 2020)

"Overall, an estimated 299,028 excess deaths have occurred in the United States from late January through October 3, 2020, with two thirds of these attributed to COVID-19. The largest percentage increases were seen among adults aged 25–44 years and among Hispanic or Latino (Hispanic) persons. These results provide information about the degree to which COVID-19 deaths might be underascertained and inform efforts to prevent mortality directly or indirectly associated with the COVID-19 pandemic, such as efforts to minimize disruptions to health care."

To compare >265,000+ confirmed Covid-19 deaths (and counting) to the 34,200 deaths last year from the flu in the US is disingenuous.


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## SpaceBus (Nov 28, 2020)

Furnace To Fireplace said:


> What I see in that graph, is that at the end of September, we are headed to below AVERAGE deaths total.
> We have a big spike of deaths in the spring, which is understandable as this is a NEW virus.
> Deadly???  Yes, to the immune compromised. To everyone else, just a virus(nasty flu) that we have to get immune to.
> What a lot of people dont know is, that your immune system gets stronger with use.




Who told you that part about the immune system? Rabies, HIV, Tetanus, and several other diseases beg to differ. Polio was a bit more recently stamped out since it was one of those diseases that tended to kill people. Small pox is another good example of diseases that don't leave you stronger. Covid19 is such a recent development there is no way to tell what the real long term effects will be for people of all age groups. So far the *first* people to die are those with complications and otherwise compromised immune systems. This just started and the infections have done nothing but go up. The large majority of people are taking this seriously and are trying to prevent spread, but a stubborn few have been determined to undermine the whole thing. The deaths were coming down, but have begun to rise. I understand that not everyone is paying as close of attention to this as I am, my immune system IS compromised. A quick internet search to the various CDC websites at the state and federal levels will show you that the case spike now is serious and real. The original death spike in the spring was really just NYC and Covid had not yet spread far and wide. Now there is spread nationwide at the county and even town level. The Easternmost part of the United States is having an outbreak. One of, if not the most, poor counties in the US is starting to have deaths as a result of folks giving up on social distancing back in the spring. Numerous churches across rural Maine have been spreading the virus. 

The data is on a huge lag and there are countless statistics to fill the gaps in data, many of which are intentionally used to disinform people. 

Many folks like to say there are people among us that are just "misinformed" which would be a benign, albeit unfortunate, circumstance. This is what happened in the spring. Now if people choose not to believe they have been "disinformed" which means a third party (ies) has been purposefully spreading falsehoods.


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## stoveliker (Nov 28, 2020)

SpaceBus said:


> A mask alone certainly won't protect, it's more about the wearer and their choices. I have coworkers that wear masks in public, but they don't do anything else differently. They seem to think the mask makes them invulnerable. As mentioned with medical procedures even N95 won't save you, but this is a exposure time related thing. If you spend longer than five minutes in close proximity to a person, they better be from your household, because after that the risk is just screaming ever upwards and no mask or hazmat gear will be enough protection.



I'm not sure this (N95S remark) is correct. My wife worked in (medical) places where 75% or more got the virus between April and July. 50% or more died. Her work consists of being (hands-on-) near people for 45+ minutes per treatment.
She wore an N95 (and face shield and safety glasses and a gown and gloves, and was desinfected (sprayed off) after each patient).
If an N95 does not protect (save you) she surely would have gotten it, considering the hundreds of hours of less than armslength close contact she had -medically serving people that desperately needed serving.

While an N95 is not the cure-all (see other measures above, and a very strict behavioral mode of working she adheres to), it certainly provides a big decrease of risk contracting it. (And superfluous: the now ubiquitous surgical masks are more for protecting those around you than yourself, which is what an N95 is for.)

I admit this is anecdotal (rather than based on statistics). But it is consistent with what the masks claim to do.


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## Fingerlakes Fireplace (Nov 28, 2020)

SpaceBus said:


> Who told you that part about the immune system? Rabies, HIV, Tetanus, and several other diseases beg to differ. Polio was a bit more recently stamped out since it was one of those diseases that tended to kill people. Small pox is another good example of diseases that don't leave you stronger. Covid19 is such a recent development there is no way to tell what the real long term effects will be for people of all age groups. So far the *first* people to die are those with complications and otherwise compromised immune systems. This just started and the infections have done nothing but go up. The large majority of people are taking this seriously and are trying to prevent spread, but a stubborn few have been determined to undermine the whole thing. The deaths were coming down, but have begun to rise. I understand that not everyone is paying as close of attention to this as I am, my immune system IS compromised. A quick internet search to the various CDC websites at the state and federal levels will show you that the case spike now is serious and real. The original death spike in the spring was really just NYC and Covid had not yet spread far and wide. Now there is spread nationwide at the county and even town level. The Easternmost part of the United States is having an outbreak. One of, if not the most, poor counties in the US is starting to have deaths as a result of folks giving up on social distancing back in the spring. Numerous churches across rural Maine have been spreading the virus.
> 
> The data is on a huge lag and there are countless statistics to fill the gaps in data, many of which are intentionally used to disinform people.
> 
> Many folks like to say there are people among us that are just "misinformed" which would be a benign, albeit unfortunate, circumstance. This is what happened in the spring. Now if people choose not to believe they have been "disinformed" which means a third party (ies) has been purposefully spreading falsehoods.


I f YOUR immune system is weak, I don't blame you for not wanting to get it.
To the otherwise healthy people, get on with your life....


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## begreen (Nov 28, 2020)

Furnace To Fireplace said:


> I f YOUR immune system is weak, I don't blame you for not wanting to get it.
> To the otherwise healthy people, get on with your life....


A compromised immune system raises the odds, but there are lots of healthy people without a compromised immune system have gotten very ill from this disease. And many have died from it. Additionally, just because one has a minor case of Covid-19, that doesn't mean this person is not a spreader. We all know of people that have a vulnerability.  Sometimes this is genetic, or a nutritional deficiency. It's only when we all take responsibility for each other that we can stop the spread.


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## Fingerlakes Fireplace (Nov 28, 2020)

begreen said:


> A compromised immune system raises the odds, but there are lots of healthy people without a compromised immune system have gotten very ill from this disease. And many have died from it. Additionally, just because one has a minor case of Covid-19, that doesn't mean this person is not a spreader. We all know of people that have a vulnerablilty.  It's only when we all take responsibility for each other that we can stop the spread.


{ there are lots of healthy people without a compromised immune system have gotten very ill from this disease.}
I read the news articles claiming that HEALTHY people die from Covid.
If you get past the headline, it usually says, diabetic, obese, and is considered HEALTHY in America today.


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## begreen (Nov 28, 2020)

These sad stories are in the papers daily somewhere in the country.








						21-Year-Old College Baseball Player Cody Lyster Dies of Coronavirus
					

"Our son is proof positive that it can take the life of a young person," Cody Lyster's mother tells PEOPLE




					people.com
				











						19-Year-Old App St. Student Athlete Dies From Coronavirus Complications
					

A 19-year-old sophomore student athlete at Appalachian State, Chad Dorrill died Monday night from complications due to Covid-19.




					country1037fm.com
				











						College football player Jamain Stephens dies at age 20 - ProFootballTalk
					

Jamain Stephens, a football player at California University of Pennsylvania and the son of a former Steelers first round-draft pick, has died at the age of 20 of what was initially described as COVID-19 complications but was later said to be unconfirmed.Stephens had played the last three seasons...




					profootballtalk.nbcsports.com
				











						Dying Young: The Health Care Workers in Their 20s Killed by COVID-19
					

A database of deaths compiled by KHN and The Guardian includes a significant minority under 30, leaving shattered dreams and devastated families.




					khn.org


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## SpaceBus (Nov 28, 2020)

\


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## SidecarFlip (Nov 28, 2020)

Statistics and studies can be manipulated for the intended outcome.


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## begreen (Nov 28, 2020)

So I am going to ask people to stop using this thread as an opinion sounding board. It is supposed to be a check-in only, on how folks are doing. I asked medic, because he is a frontline EMT and I am concerned about these folks. In some areas they are dropping from fatigue, which also can make them vulnerable. Local nurses, emts, doctors in the Seattle area are definitely feeling the stress. The numbers we are seeing now far exceed April's peak (over 5x so far). And this is where they think the disease first struck in the US.


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## Medic21 (Nov 28, 2020)

begreen said:


> The study was a brief slice in time, early on. It can be and was misinterpreted by some. This can be the selective and sometimes misleading nature of statistics. This disease has been with us for less than a year. Looking back, objectively, some true patterns will emerge. Trivializing this disease is fallacious and insensitive.
> Here is the October CDC mortality report. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6942e2.htm
> 
> "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and *statistics*." - Mark Twain


The whole point of me posting that is that the number one killer in the United States, Heart Disease, must have been partially cured based on the numbers having a significant drop.  The number of people that have died with Covid does not change.  There has been a ton of misinformation, or a better term would be omitted information.  It really begs the question as to whether a lot of these people would have died anyways.  Yes I am educated and I understand comorbid factors.  But, these numbers really do need a closer look and dissecting.  
I believe that the study was taken down because it is partial and a good starting point.  

There will never be a medical study that does not have an intended outcome prior to even starting that. NEVER treat one like gospel.

Sorry, Boss, return to regular programming now...


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## Medic21 (Nov 28, 2020)

begreen said:


> So I am going to ask people to stop using this thread as an opinion sounding board. It is supposed to be a check-in only, on how folks are doing. I asked medic, because he is a frontline EMT and I am concerned about these folks. In some areas they are dropping from fatigue, which also can make them vulnerable. Local nurses, emts, doctors in the Seattle area are definitely feeling the stress. The numbers we are seeing now far exceed April's peak (over 5x so far). And this is where they think the disease first struck in the US.


I believe the first Coronavirus that struck the Seattle area was a weaker form that had not mutated yet.  The one the started East in NYC was the harsher, more aggressive, form and that is what your seeing on the west cost now.  While originally there was immunity it is a cross immunity like the flu gives from strain to strain.  

if anyone thinks this is going to get any better, no matter what we do, before a mass vaccine is available and distributed, I’ll gladly sell you some ocean front property I have here in Indiana.

Common sense will go a long way in the next few months.


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## Medic21 (Nov 28, 2020)

begreen said:


> These sad stories are in the papers daily somewhere in the country.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There are many conditions this virus causes that can kill healthy people.  The quickest, I’ve seen it and it’s f’in scary, is a Cytokine Storm which is an autoimmune response.  Walking to dead in 4 hours without any previous medical hx and is working like hell in a loosing battle for life.  

Another, had this pt a month ago is blood clots causing a PE.    I’ve never seen the flu kill a 22 year old college senior with a PE.  

Y’all need to relax, I’m not telling anyone to blow this off.  Use your head and some common sense.


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## gggvan (Nov 28, 2020)

begreen said:


> So I am going to ask people to stop using this thread as an opinion sounding board. It is supposed to be a check-in only, on how folks are doing. I asked medic, because he is a frontline EMT and I am concerned about these folks. In some areas they are dropping from fatigue, which also can make them vulnerable. Local nurses, emts, doctors in the Seattle area are definitely feeling the stress. The numbers we are seeing now far exceed April's peak (over 5x so far). And this is where they think the disease first struck in the US.



Thank you! We're def on the rise here in MA, and we just imposed a travel quarantine against VT, who just became a hotspot yesterday. Daughter's school went all remote last week. Looking to really hunker down for DEC-FEB. It's a shame,  cause now we don't need to be any one place, but we can't travel either.


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## SidecarFlip (Nov 28, 2020)

begreen said:


> So I am going to ask people to stop using this thread as an opinion sounding board. It is supposed to be a check-in only, on how folks are doing. I asked medic, because he is a frontline EMT and I am concerned about these folks. In some areas they are dropping from fatigue, which also can make them vulnerable. Local nurses, emts, doctors in the Seattle area are definitely feeling the stress. The numbers we are seeing now far exceed April's peak (over 5x so far). And this is where they think the disease first struck in the US.



\Works for me.  In a nutshell, my wife and I are fine, Covid free (far as we can tell) and plan on staying that way until such time as we can get vaccinated.


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## begreen (Nov 28, 2020)

SidecarFlip said:


> \Works for me.  In a nutshell, my wife and I are fine, Covid free (far as we can tell) and plan on staying that way until such time as we can get vaccinated.


Good plan. Same for my clan.


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## bholler (Nov 28, 2020)

Furnace To Fireplace said:


> { there are lots of healthy people without a compromised immune system have gotten very ill from this disease.}
> I read the news articles claiming that HEALTHY people die from Covid.
> If you get past the headline, it usually says, diabetic, obese, and is considered HEALTHY in America today.


I just spent the last 3 days with an ICU nurse who works in a covid unit.   While there she got notice that 2 of her patients died.  One was 34 years old and while slightly over weight in good overall health.  Don't believe everything you read this disease can take perfectly healthy people as well.  There are also many unforeseen complications arising in recovered patients.  

Are masks fool proof no course not but they help especially when used in combination with social distancing properly used gloves sanitizer etc.  So why not use them?


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## mcdougy (Nov 28, 2020)

Its  like wearing a seat belt in your vehicle.......or a helmet, or a fall restraint  and all the things that can be put  under the PPE umbrella.  Most do it because they follow rules in general, some do it because they fear for their life without it, and  even less people flip the bird to any rule or recommendations  fhat they don't agree with or understand the validity.  
Ring around the rosie, pocket  full of posie.....somethings will never change....


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## stoveliker (Nov 28, 2020)

begreen said:


> So I am going to ask people to stop using this thread as an opinion sounding board. It is supposed to be a check-in only, on how folks are doing. I asked medic, because he is a frontline EMT and I am concerned about these folks. In some areas they are dropping from fatigue, which also can make them vulnerable. Local nurses, emts, doctors in the Seattle area are definitely feeling the stress. The numbers we are seeing now far exceed April's peak (over 5x so far). And this is where they think the disease first struck in the US.



Yes sir. We are holding on, but it's not easy. However, there is nothing else to do as being prudent and taking care of what and who needs taking care of.

I can say that manually splitting wood is good for me, even more so in these circumstances.


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## SidecarFlip (Nov 28, 2020)

bholler said:


> I just spent the last 3 days with an ICU nurse who works in a covid unit.   While there she got notice that 2 of her patients died.  One was 34 years old and while slightly over weight in good overall health.  Don't believe everything you read this disease can take perfectly healthy people as well.  There are also many unforeseen complications arising in recovered patients.
> 
> Are masks fool proof no course not but they help especially when used in combination with social distancing properly used gloves sanitizer etc.  So why not use them?


Guy across the road got it and he has 'underlying' issues but he bested it.  Problem is the long lasting effects.  He's tired all the time, sleeps a lot and has little energy.  Got it on a Elk hunt in Colorado, heck of a present to bring home and no He didn't bring home any elk either.

My wife and I do everything possible not to get it.  IMO, all we can do we are doing.

I did not hunt at all this year which is highly unusual for me but I felt that going hunting might increase the likely hood of getting it so I didn't.  Always next year


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## begreen (Nov 28, 2020)

Local town holiday events are starting to shut down instead of taking the risk of mass exposure. Same thing for recycling events I help out with. Our town has stayed low at about 2 cases/month average since April. We just jumped 10x to 20 cases in a week! Mostly this is family spread where one person traveling, commuting or at work brings it home to the family.


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## SidecarFlip (Nov 28, 2020)

begreen said:


> Local town holiday events are starting to shut down instead of taking the risk of mass exposure. Same thing for recycling events I help out with. Our town has stayed low at about 2 cases/month average since April. We just jumped 10x to 20 cases in a week! Mostly this is family spread where one person traveling, commuting or at work brings it home to the family.


Very similar to the medium sized town east of us about 30 miles.  We get their newspaper daily so we can observe new cases and who passed and who survived and they went positively bonkers about a week ago from maybe 15confirmed in a day to over 200 in a single day and deaths are averaging a couple per day now.  Scratching my head over that.  All I can attribute that to is the election.  No other common denominator.

One of my very good friends who happens to be a retired doctor got it and so did his wife and she's not doing good.  Both are early 70's and both were careful but both voted in person though they wore masks and social distanced.  Called me and told me NOT to stop by because and I assured him I would not.  Hopefully they come through it unscathed, great folks.  I hate to see anyone get infected.

This year was my first flu shot ever.  I've never got one but something told me I should, so I did.  The 'old man's shot', double dose.  Got a bit sick from it for 12 hours or so but so far, so good.

Get my nose swabbed on Monday morning.  required for my upcoming procedure on Wednesday with 5 more after that so I suspect 5 more swabs as well or until I get vaccinated.  I'm excited....  no biggie.  I've had exams in every orifice I have and tubes down my nose too.  A little swab isn't anything.


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## Fingerlakes Fireplace (Nov 28, 2020)

begreen said:


> These sad stories are in the papers daily somewhere in the country.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am sure they were all healthy, after all the media said so, and they wouldn't lie..... or would they????????
1 of the cases the Dr said it was a 1 in 10 million  case.
But either way, they were not healthy, or it wouldn't have taken they're life.
I have heard of supposably perfectly healthy people, just dying without any apparent reason. (Pre Covid) Afterwards they figured out they have some health defect. In the era of Covid, the health defect is ignored, and it is counted as a Covid death.


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## begreen (Nov 28, 2020)

Furnace To Fireplace said:


> I am sure they were all healthy, after all the media said so, and they wouldn't lie..... or would they????????
> 1 of the cases the Dr said it was a 1 in 10 million  case.
> But either way, they were not healthy, or it wouldn't have taken they're life.
> I have heard of supposably perfectly healthy people, just dying without any apparent reason. (Pre Covid) Afterwards they figured out they have some health defect. In the era of Covid, the health defect is ignored, and it is counted as a Covid death.


Closing thead. This was supposed to be a personal check-in thread, but it continues to get hijacked instead by personal opinions. Stay well and be careful out there.


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## begreen (Nov 28, 2020)

Some closing notes: Here is a first person statement of what it is like, post covid:








						Here’s how it feels when COVID-19 symptoms last for months
					

Margot Gage Witvliet went from being healthy and active to fearing she was dying almost overnight. An epidemiologist, she dug into the research to understand what's happening to long-haulers like her.




					www.pbs.org
				




And another first person story:
Here is the story:  You get a fever, and it's a little hard to breathe, but not that bad.  Take some tylenol and go to bed.  You wake up in the middle of  the night to find yourself gasping for air.  You reach over to your wife and get her attention.  She rolls over, 'What's wrong honey?  It's the middle of the night".  It's then she can hear you breathing, or trying too.  She turns on the light and sees the panic in your eyes. No matter how much you inhale, it's not enough, it's never enough.  That would be bad enough but the fever is spiking, it's hard to focus.  Your three kids come into the room, they heard Mom talking loud, trying to get your attention.  The little girl, 6 years old, you're the center of her universe. She's a daddy's girl and loves it when you take her places with you.  "Is Daddy Okay?"  Mom tries to hide her panic "He's fine honey, he'll be okay"  She struggles trying to decide if she should drive you to the emergency room or get an ambulance.  She decides to drive.  You're too out of  it to get dressed so she takes you in your pajamas.  Once there they admit you.  Your wife cannot go in.  You're alone.  She is sent to the house to quarantine with the rest of your kids.  They start to work on you.  You're getting tired, your chest hurts from trying to breathe for so long.  Your blood pressure is up.  They lower your fever a little and put on an oxygen mask.  It seems to help a little, but only for an hour or so.  Then your lungs begin to fight for air again.  They offer to turn you over on your stomach, "sometimes it helps" they say.  They roll you over...It does.  You look out the door, Doctors are running everywhere. There are patients in the hallways.  The ward is full, and everyone is trying to keep up.  You hear Code calls, and ventilator machines being rolled up and down the hallway.  You notice you cannot smell anything, and you have pain all over.  You wonder about your family.  Your daughter, the fear in her eyes as her daddy was put into the car.  "Why are you leaving Daddy?  I'll take care of you..."

Pain...the fight for air.  It's back.  You press the button.  They roll you back over and check you out.  The doctor comes up to your bed.  Completely covered, face mask, hood, looks a little like an astronaut.  "Sir, you're not getting enough oxygen in your blood.  We need to put you on a ventilator"  You nod in agreement, gasping.  "Sir... You won't be able to talk once we do this.  Would you like to say anything to your family?  We can arrange a facetime with them if you like".  As your head tries to wrap itself around this offer, one question comes to mind:  "How serious is this?"  It takes the doc a while to respond, he's done this hundreds of times, but it never gets easy "Patients that go on a ventilator have a 4 in 10 chance of not recovering.  Should we try to reach your family?"  You nod...Numb...Your brain can't handle all the info it's getting.  The fever, the pain in your chest the struggle for air, it's too much. A nurse comes back in with an iPad... "I have your family online" she tries to say with a smile.  You take the iPad.  There they are,  all three kids and your wife.  Your everything.  The look on their faces is a look you've seen before.  The brave smiles.  The look you give when you feel sorrow and pain, but need to cheer up the person you’re talking to.  They are not at home...It looks like they are outside. You pull in as much air as you can so you can sound somewhat normal.  It does not work. "Hey guys, where are you?"  Your wife forces another smile, "We're outside your window honey.  They put signs out so we know where you are.  They can't let us in.  We're not supposed to leave the house but we needed to be close to you"  She starts to cry, it's too much for her.  That's when it hits you.  Clarity, all at once...You're saying "goodbye".   The next time you hug your family will either be a few weeks from now, or in the here-after.  So this is your last chance to say something.  The six year old is shaking,  pale with fear.  "Hey there nugget...How you doing?"  "Daddy... Please come home... Who will read to me?  I miss you so much, please get out of bed...I'll do anything you want"  You never realized you could cry as hard as you are right now, and it's making the breathing even harder.  You know you're scaring her.  You cannot stay on much longer.  "I'm sorry nugget.. I can't get out of bed right now.  You take care of your Mama for me okay?  I love your everything"  "She looks at you through tear soaked eyes.. "I love your everything too"  You can't do it...You can't say goodbye, it's all just too much.  The iPad falls in your lap as you struggle to both breathe and cry all at once.  An alarm goes off, the Docs surround you and begin to put  in the ventilator.  Your eyes close for the last  time.  It's  over.  It takes years for your family to recover.  They lost their rock, and nothing will be the same, ever again... End.

I felt compelled to write this to give a perspective to those of us who are more focused on comfort and "getting back to normal". The above story has played out thousands of times with Mothers, Fathers, Grandparents, and children.  Families that will grieve for years to come.

It’s not about how high the numbers go.  It's about that one person.. Your "everything".
Please.. Show compassion.  Odds are you know someone that  endured something like this.  We're in a war right now, and we're losing.  It's time to step up and make sure these kids keep their parents.
Thank you... Jay A Kelley  11/16/2020


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