# General truck talk



## Seasoned Oak (Mar 8, 2020)

Mod note: Posts moved to General Truck Talk from EV thread

Ill be holding back as most of these things depreciate rapidly.  I dont think ill ever buy a Brand new vehicle again.  Ill jump in after the first few yrs of beta testing and free falling depreciation are up. That is if the Corona virus dont get me.


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## SpaceBus (Mar 8, 2020)

Seasoned Oak said:


> Ill be holding back as most of these things depreciate rapidly.  I dont think ill ever buy a Brand new vehicle again.  Ill jump in after the first few yrs of beta testing and free falling depreciation are up. That is if the Corona virus dont get me.


Agreed, I'm over buying new. I haven't since 2009.


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## Seasoned Oak (Mar 8, 2020)

SpaceBus said:


> Agreed, I'm over buying new. I haven't since 2009.


And then theres the A=hole that sideswiped my almost new GMC hit and run style ,in the parking lot last month.   Sure glad i didnt shell out for new as it will get creamed anyway.


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## SpaceBus (Mar 8, 2020)

Seasoned Oak said:


> And then theres the A=hole that sideswiped my almost new GMC hit and run style ,in the parking lot last month.   Sure glad i didnt shell out for new as it will get creamed anyway.


Yeah, nothing lasts especially when you are using it hard.


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## P51mustang (Mar 8, 2020)

SpaceBus said:


> GM and I think Chysler used to offer hybrid 1/2 ton trucks.




You're right, they have for a few years now.  However, they were significantly overpriced with the additional technology needed and they didn't raise mileage that much.  The soon to arrive all electric Ford F-150 and the newest hybrid Dodge Ram now available are far more advanced technologically as compared to what I would guess where first generation hybrid pick-ups.  

For instance the Dodge Ram gets around 22-24 MPG street driving and even more highway...At a price of course, but it's far better than the early hybrid pick-up which only slightly improved mileage.


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## SpaceBus (Mar 8, 2020)

P51mustang said:


> You're right, they have for a few years now.  However, they were significantly overpriced with the additional technology needed and they didn't raise mileage that much.  The soon to arrive all electric Ford F-150 and the newest hybrid Dodge Ram now available are far more advanced technologically as compared to what I would guess where first generation hybrid pick-ups.
> 
> For instance the Dodge Ram gets around 22-24 MPG street driving and even more highway...At a price of course, but it's far better than the early hybrid pick-up which only slightly improved mileage.


Hey, 1/2 tons are finally catching up with manual trans diesel trucks! I average 22-26 in mixed driving in my Dually ram.


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## Seasoned Oak (Mar 8, 2020)

SpaceBus said:


> GM and I think Chysler used to offer hybrid 1/2 ton trucks.


When you run the numbers they dont save much .You have to go right to all electric to get great MPg equiv numbers although they will be grossly overpriced as well out of the gate.  Best deal out there right now is a good used volt for 10k. As far as pickups, nothing,even the gassers are overpriced.


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## SpaceBus (Mar 8, 2020)

Seasoned Oak said:


> When you run the numbers they dont save much .You have to go right to all electric to get great MPg equiv numbers although they will be grossly overpriced as well out of the gate.  Best deal out there right now is a good used volt for 10k. As far as pickups, nothing,even the gassers are overpriced.


Trucks are outrageous money printers for the auto manufacturers. They will sell all that are made and they cost little to engineer and produce, compared to the profits anyway. I think a Ford F350 can break six figures now.


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## P51mustang (Mar 14, 2020)

I couldn't agree more on the crazy mark up for pick-up trucks...SUV's too.  Unfortunately for me, I need a pick-up for a number of reasons.  

My current truck I bought brand new in 2009 and am still driving as I refuse to buy a new one at the absurd prices now demanded by auto dealers.  It has about 78,000 miles on it and is getting pretty rusty given its been driven all around the upstate, NY area for 10 winters now.  The salt required to keep the "North Country" roads clear is insane and eats through any vehicle if driven enough.  I think the engine, drive-train,  suspension, etc. may hold up for several more years, but the body needs some TLC..

I suspect I'll buy used the next time around or keep my current F-150 as long as possible and only drive sparingly when I absolutely need the truck for what it's built for.  Like plowing my drive way, hauling wood pellets from my dealer, trips to the solid waste center, etc...Meanwhile, maybe a used Chevy BOLT cuv for other driving needs. ...The BOLT and a solar array in my back yard would make for a nice retirement gift to myself.


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## Seasoned Oak (Mar 14, 2020)

Friend of mine paid  55k for a simple F150.  Its just nuts.


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## P51mustang (Mar 14, 2020)

Seasoned Oak said:


> Friend of mine paid  55k for a simple F150.  Its just nuts.



I have a basic F-150 4X4 STX model....I think I paid just over 30 maybe 32K back in 2009....I think the same model with the same comparable engine, 4X4, STX package, extra's. etc. today is well over 40K MSRP.....
For basically the same technology as I think the F-150 has only had one complete redesign since 2009.  Probably when they began using the aluminum body.....Which was probably the biggest change in the redesign.


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## ABMax24 (Mar 14, 2020)

P51mustang said:


> I have a basic F-150 4X4 STX model....I think I paid just over 30 maybe 32K back in 2009....I think the same model with the same comparable engine, 4X4, STX package, extra's. etc. today is well over 40K MSRP.....
> For basically the same technology as I think the F-150 has only had one complete redesign since 2009.  Probably when they began using the aluminum body.....Which was probably the biggest change in the redesign.



There is almost nothing the same between an 09 and a 2020 F150. Engines, transmissions, ECM, Body, frame have all changed.

The biggest engine offered in 09 was the 5.4 at 320hp. For 2020 the 2 bottom tier engines the 3.3 V6 at 290hp and 2.7ecoboost at 325hp offer similar power, payload and towing to what an 09 5.4 had. 

Not to also mention the new 10 speed transmissions in the 2020's.

You can spend a pile more on a new 2020, but for similar specs as the vehicle you'd replace it's not as much as you think.


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## Ashful (Mar 15, 2020)

begreen said:


> View attachment 258224
> 
> General truck talk really should go to another non-EV thread.





Seasoned Oak said:


> Friend of mine paid  55k for a simple F150.  Its just nuts.


If that statement is true, that their F150 was "simple" and not including any special and very expensive options, then your friend vastly overpaid.  Base price on a Ram 1500 SLT Crew cab 4x4 with the 5.7L Hemi MDS VVT engine and 8HP70 8-speed trans was $39,140, just a few years ago when I bought mine.  Heck, optioned with nearly every option they offer, mine had a window sticker price of only $46,725.  I'm not sure how you'd ever get to $55k on an F150 without really optioning the heck out of the thing, nor could I understand why anyone would pay that for that truck.  I have had rides from friends and coworkers in several newer F150's, and I'm really not impressed with what they're offering today.


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## Seasoned Oak (Mar 15, 2020)

Ashful said:


> If that statement is true, that their F150 was "simple" and not including any special and very expensive options, then your friend vastly overpaid.


I did his taxes and the paper work was there for the truck ,so yea its true.  55K.  He had a trade in so they probably over charged for the new truck to make it look like hes getting a smokin hot deal as dealers often do. What i meant by simple was nothing that would warrent a big add on ,such as a Diesel engine and its a half ton as opposed to an F250 or 350.


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## Ashful (Mar 15, 2020)

Wow... that’s amazing.  Ford must have a blind following, for anyone to pay that much for their 1/2 ton.  I’m really not impressed by any of the Ford F150’s in which I’ve ridden, in the last five years.  I haven’t looked at their pricing, but I suspect your friends $55k truck must’ve not been very simple, likely pretty heavily optioned to get to that price... it’s $8k beyond the window sticker of my truck with lots of the more expensive options added.  

I’ve also never understood the concept of brand loyalty, either. Dealership loyalty, yes... but never brand loyalty. Most folks buy a new car so seldomly that the factors that created the pros and cons of a given brand are going to change more quickly than the relevance of their experience. But good for Ford if they’re able to capitalize on that... for now.


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## Ashful (Mar 15, 2020)

Oh... but I forgot to state the point of the post.  Yes, you can pay nearly $50k for a 1/2 ton truck, if you want every latest electronic gizmo on it.  But you can also buy a 1/2 ton v8 4x4 extended cab truck brand new with most of the basic options for mid $30k’s.   Heck, right on the front page of Ford.com it says the F150 CL starts at $28k, and that base-level truck is surely already nicer than any you could’ve bought 30 years ago.  

So the point was that, while you CAN spend a lot on a 1/2 ton truck, you really don’t have to.


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## Seasoned Oak (Mar 15, 2020)

Ashful said:


> I’ve also never understood the concept of brand loyalty, either. Dealership loyalty, yes... but never brand loyalty. Most folks buy a new car so seldomly that the factors that created the pros and cons of a given brand are going to change more quickly than the relevance of their experience. But good for Ford if they’re able to capitalize on that... for now.


My brand loyalty is fading ,no brand is immune to some lemons and no brand gets it right every time.


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## Seasoned Oak (Mar 15, 2020)

Ashful said:


> to get to that price... it’s $8k beyond the window sticker of my truck with lots of the more expensive options added.


Once they add that 8K to what they tell you they are giving you for your trade in your thinking wow i never thought  i could get that much for my trade in ,its not worth that much,your hooked.  Thats my theory anyway


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## Ashful (Mar 15, 2020)

Seasoned Oak said:


> Once they add that 8K to what they tell you they are giving you for your trade in your thinking wow i never thought  i could get that much for my trade in ,its not worth that much,your hooked.  Thats my theory anyway


Possibly.  But sticker price is sticker price... separate from trade-in value.  Are you saying he paid $55k on top of trade?!?

I ended up only paying low-$20k’s, by that measure.  I took a truck with only 9k miles, off a 2-year lease, and traded in a 12 year old truck in the process.  But I was quoting new sticker price, above.


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## Seasoned Oak (Mar 15, 2020)

I didnt look that close , just noticed the final sales price on the pink sheet. I dont have the paper work anymore.  That included tax and everything. If i  were buying that same truck the deal would look something like
"mid to high 20s for 2 or 3yr  old with 15-20 k on the odometer".   Or high teens with more miles. Private sales for newer trucks are a good source. 
.  But someone has to pay the freight for it new .


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## Ashful (Mar 15, 2020)

Yep, definitely.  I was really only responding to the notion that one had to pay that much for a truck today.  You can easily pay that much, or much much less, it’s your call.


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## begreen (Mar 15, 2020)

Trucks hold their value well. I got a well-equipped 2013 F150 a few years ago with 46k for $25k. Sold it for $26k last summer, but with new 10 ply tires.


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## Seasoned Oak (Mar 15, 2020)

begreen said:


> Trucks hold their value well. I got a well-equipped 2013 F150 a few years ago with 46k for $25k. Sold it for $26k last summer, but with new 10 ply tires.


Once they are a few years old they do . Not often you get more than you paid ,good move. Good purchase price. If you had purchased it new you would have taken a bath though. As always.


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## woodnomore (Mar 16, 2020)

I get a new chevy supposed to be every 3 years, I get a deal every time on reupping the lease early. I am very fortunate I am provided a pickup from my employer I do not pay for fuel or even car washes. I have had a ford in the past I prefer chevy's, last two trucks they have not been in the shop for anything other than an oil change.


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## peakbagger (Mar 16, 2020)

I am having a real tough time  buying into the depreciation and service issues of new vehicles. I know several folks with brand new vehicles that have had to have their truck in the dealer for "reprograming" multiple times. They also have ended up having their "new" trucks towed in when the truck is "bricked".  Most of the dealerships are flat rate shops and the service techs just try to unplug old components and plug in new ones without doing any diagnosis. The purchase price and sale has some pretty scary undercurrents these days. Most new vehicles are being financed with long term loans, seven years these days for many  and the percentage of borrowers with poor credit has gone up dramatically.  More than a few financial analysists expect a credit crash one of these days. Many folks are getting upside down once the typical warranty is over and for many its easier to go further upside down and buy a new truck than deal with out of pocket repairs on their out of warranty trucks.

I have done my own work for years and have come to the conclusion to buy older vehicles with few if any computers. I drive a "throwaway" Ford Fiesta with a manual transmission that  owes me nothing.  My Unimog was designed for a 250K service life and has no computers whatsoever. I just picked up a 94 Toyota Land Cruiser FJ70 , it does have an engine computer but its a diesel with no major emission controls and the basic engine design has been around for 20 plus years. A lot of the running gear is carryover from the FJ40 line but the body is definitely not as primative. Its closer to an early bronco than an FJ40,  Its an "orphan" in the US since american buyers didnt want a lightweight Land Cruiser but the rest of the world wanted it (and still does) so it was made simple and the Americans got the big boat FJ60 . Parts are cheap  and the one I picked up came from Europe where they appear not to have used road salt. I have to go through it since its high mileage and put up with a metric speedometer but its pretty rare for a Toyota not to go 250K and if I do preventative work to keep the rust at bay I expect I will get several years off it.  The big thing for me is insurance is cheap and my registration is cheap as the excise tax in NH is based on age of vehicle. NH excise tax is based on sticker and for many new truck owners its over $1000 a year then tapers down over 5 years which is just about the time that someone trades it in.


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## Ashful (Mar 16, 2020)

peakbagger said:


> I am having a real tough time  buying into the depreciation and service issues of new vehicles... Most of the dealerships are flat rate shops and the service techs just try to unplug old components and plug in new ones without doing any diagnosis. The purchase price and sale has some pretty scary undercurrents these days. Most new vehicles are being financed...


I remember folks making all of the same claims and complaints in 1994, when your beloved classic FJ was new.

New cars are better than old cars in nearly every way. The few examples you can find of a new car being bricked are matched by literally thousands of old cars requiring repairs in the same time period. It’s impossible to argue, without very few and rare exceptions, that old cars are somehow more reliable or preferable to new.

Financing a new car could be argued either way. Yes, if you get a 7 year loan at 7% then you will pay a cumulative 25% on that loan in interest. However that cost may be less than the difference in maintenance costs between a very old car you can afford for cash, and a new car. The bigger loss is the depreciation, and you can never justify buying a new car, based on finance alone, due to this massive depreciation.


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## woodnomore (Mar 16, 2020)

> I have done my own work for years and have come to the conclusion to buy older vehicles with few if any computers. I drive a "throwaway" Ford Fiesta with a manual transmission that  owes me nothing.  My Unimog was designed for a 250K service life and has no computers whatsoever. I just picked up a 94 Toyota Land Cruiser FJ70 , it does have an engine computer but its a diesel with no major emission controls and the basic engine design has been around for 20 plus years. A lot of the running gear is carryover from the FJ40 line but the body is definitely not as primative. Its closer to an early bronco than an FJ40,  Its an "orphan" in the US since american buyers didnt want a lightweight Land Cruiser but the rest of the world wanted it (and still does) so it was made simple and the Americans got the big boat FJ60 . Parts are cheap  and the one I picked up came from Europe where they appear not to have used road salt. I have to go through it since its high mileage and put up with a metric speedometer but its pretty rare for a Toyota not to go 250K and if I do preventative work to keep the rust at bay I expect I will get several years off it.  The big thing for me is insurance is cheap and my registration is cheap as the excise tax in NH is based on age of vehicle. NH excise tax is based on sticker and for many new truck owners its over $1000 a year then tapers down over 5 years which is just about the time that someone trades it in.



A rusted Toyota? How rare


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## peakbagger (Mar 16, 2020)

My personal experience are the benefits of working on my own vehicles over the years seems to lead to different conclusions for me.  Most of my painful experiences have been with integrated computer systems in vehicles.  Much as I like high pressure common rail fuel injection for better emissions and performance, hard to beat a mechanical injection pump as common rail systems tend to only work with high level of computer control.  Sure there may be bugs, but I find that most have usually been figured out and someone has posted a youtube video on a fix or work around.  

About the only folks who seem to win out on financing are small business owners. I don't know the details of section 179 but they apparently can get access to some incredibly good tax incentives for buying new expensive vehicles. I am amazed a the various logos I see plastered on large trucks with custom snowmachine and ATV trailers that frequent my area. I didn't know that financial planners need a F350 quad cab or equivalent GM product  with a custom trailer to support their businesses but nevertheless I see quite a few.


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## Ludlow (Apr 20, 2020)

I bought a 2013 Silverado from my neighbor last year. I let vehicles find me. I think I only bought from a dealer twice in my life. Never owned a new vehicle. I keep them 10 years on average so they are 15 or more years old at the end. Thats usually when they break in half on me. 

I started taking mine to fluid film now. Maybe I can get one to last 20 years.


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## EODMSgt (Apr 21, 2020)

This is one of those threads where just about everyone has a different opinion based on what vehicles they've owned over the years. I would have to check my list however at last count I've owned over 65 over the years (except for 3 cars, all were 4x4 trucks, Jeeps, or Harleys). New, used, they both have their problems. I just traded in two vehicles on a 2020 Ram 2500 (6.4 gas, not the 6.7 diesel) and put it to work a couple days later, temp tag and all. I still have my old '97 Jeep Cherokee XJ (Sport) for an around town vehicle. The old Jeep needs repairs and tinkering off and on and I'm sure the new truck will have recalls and other issues, however that's just life.


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## Ludlow (Apr 21, 2020)

The new trucks have electric steering. I dont like that.


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## bholler (Apr 21, 2020)

Ludlow said:


> The new trucks have electric steering. I dont like that.


Why not?  There are several benifits and not much in the way of downsides.


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## Ludlow (Apr 21, 2020)

bholler said:


> Why not?  There are several benifits and not much in the way of downsides.


Both vehicles I have with electric steering have had failures. Luckily they were replaced under soft recalls. My wife and daughters vehicles.  You can imagine my displeasure. You know it's not good when you buy a used car with no warranty and the manufacturer replaces the entire steering column and motor at no charge. Just research electric power steering complaints.


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## bholler (Apr 21, 2020)

Ludlow said:


> Both vehicles I have with electric steering have had failures. Luckily they were replaced under soft recalls. My wife and daughters vehicles.  You can imagine my displeasure. You know it's not good when you buy a used car with no warranty and the manufacturer replaces the entire steering column and motor at no charge. Just research electric power steering complaints.


And are you claiming there were no problems with hydraulic steering when it was first implemented?  I have had many failures in hydraulic steering systems


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## Ludlow (Apr 21, 2020)

bholler said:


> And are you claiming there were no problems with hydraulic steering when it was first implemented?  I have had many failures in hydraulic steering systems


Failures as in the wheel locks going down the  road? When hydraulic steering fails you still have steering when moving. No. I wouldn't want it in a truck for sure. There are torque sensors that input the data into a computer. Then that tells the motor which way to assist and how much. You bang a truck around offroad or get into a tow situation you can damage it easily. You know that when the engine is off that you should never try to turn the wheel with electric steering? It can permanently damage it. My daughters car steering went into a fault and deactivated going down the road. When electric steering fails it is nearly impossible for a woman to steer the car.  My wifes car would make right turns suddenly by itself. You can have it all you want.


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## bholler (Apr 21, 2020)

Ludlow said:


> Failures as in the wheel locks going down the  road? When hydraulic steering fails you still have steering when moving. No. I wouldn't want it in a truck for sure. There are torque sensors that input the data into a computer. Then that tells the motor which way to assist and how much. You bang a truck around offroad or get into a tow situation you can damage it easily. You know that when the engine is off that you should never try to turn the wheel with electric steering? It can permanently damage it. My daughters car steering went into a fault and deactivated going down the road. When electric steering fails it is nearly impossible for a woman to steer the car.  My wifes car would make right turns suddenly by itself. You can have it all you want.


I looked it up and read lots of complaints.  They all said they just lost power assist.  What car did she have?


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## Ashful (Apr 21, 2020)

EODMSgt said:


> This is one of those threads where just about everyone has a different opinion based on what vehicles they've owned over the years.


A lot of invalid opinions, based on garbage built 20 - 30 years ago, by a bunch of now-retired auto-union workers, designed by a bunch of now-retired engineers, answering to a mass of now-retired management.

So, yeah... everyone’s opinion of Ford vs. Chevy vs. Dodge, based on their 1992 whatever, is valid.  

Look at the actual statistics, and you will notice one continuous trend:  new is better than old.  That’s about all you can say, today.


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## begreen (Apr 21, 2020)

bholler said:


> I looked it up and read lots of complaints.  They all said they just lost power assist.  What car did she have?


FWIW, I have had electric steering on the last three vehicles we've owned. No failures in 14 yrs. In our latest car I am not even aware of it being electric.


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## PaulOinMA (Apr 21, 2020)

You mean cars don't have points and condenser any more?


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## PaulOinMA (Apr 21, 2020)

My wife has a '66 Moke.  Wiring diagram is one page. 

Electrical section in the Bentley service manual for my '11 VW JSW TDI was over 700 pages.

I agree, though.   Cars are so much better now.   No comparison.


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## Ludlow (Apr 22, 2020)

bholler said:


> What car did she have?



One was GM other was Ford. Doesnt matter. Both systems were made by Dorman I believe. I said I didnt want Electric steering in a truck.( In cars it is here to stay and has been for a long time). That is a valid opinion of something new and unproven in an application where a larger vehicle is subjected to more severe service. I know you prefer that the unwitting customer be the beta tester.


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## bholler (Apr 22, 2020)

Ludlow said:


> One was GM other was Ford. Doesnt matter. Both systems were made by Dorman I believe. I said I didnt want Electric steering in a truck.( In cars it is here to stay and has been for a long time). That is a valid opinion of something new and unproven in an application where a larger vehicle is subjected to more severe service. I know you prefer that the unwitting customer be the beta tester.


When did I ever say I preferred customer beta test anything?  And what company hides the fact that they are using eps making the customer unwitting?    Yes there have been a few hiccups with it.  But it is a much simpler system than hydraulic steering.   Reading the complaints and the couple recalls it really doesn't sound like there have been widespread problems at all.


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## begreen (Apr 22, 2020)

Electric steering will be empoyed in the big rigs. It is part and parcel of autonomous trucks. Personally I like it. I have had to fix more than my fair share of issues with hydraulic leaks and failed pumps in conventional steering.


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## Ashful (Apr 22, 2020)

Listening to you guys, I must be the luckiest person on earth.  In 30 years of driving and easily 500,000 miles, I’ve never had a single power steering component failure, either electric or hydraulic, not even on my tractors!  If you find yourself putting the likelihood of steering component failures on your list of criteria for shopping automobiles, I’d dare to say you’re shopping the wrong vehicles.


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## bholler (Apr 22, 2020)

Ashful said:


> Listening to you guys, I must be the luckiest person on earth.  In 30 years of driving and easily 500,000 miles, I’ve never had a single power steering component failure, either electric or hydraulic, not even on my tractors!  If you find yourself putting the likelihood of steering component failures on your list of criteria for shopping automobiles, I’d dare to say you’re shopping the wrong vehicles.


I currently have 1 leaking pump and one leaking cooler.  And replaced a pump in the bronco 2 months ago.


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## CaptSpiff (Apr 22, 2020)

Ashful said:


> Look at the actual statistics, and you will notice one continuous trend:  new is better than old.  That’s about all you can say, today.


I don't like the load height on any of the new pickups, even the entry level XL or WT.  Yup, I'm feeling pretty smug


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## festerw (Apr 22, 2020)

22 years driving and I've had 2 power steering issues. One a leaking pump on a nearly 200k Cherokee and the other a cooler leak at 140k on my wife's 11 Durango.

The Durango uses an electric/hydraulic pump for the steering and other than the slight noise turning at idle you'd never know the difference.

I take more of an issue with the spark plugs on the 3.6 requiring the intake to be removed to be changed than the steering.

I still prefer driving the Tundra but it doesn't get crap for fuel mileage compared to the Durango.


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## begreen (Apr 22, 2020)

I've only had power steering issues on used vehicles. None on new vehicles. Bought my first car in 1967. Didn't buy new until 1981 and our second cars/trucks have always been used.


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## bholler (Apr 22, 2020)

CaptSpiff said:


> I don't like the load height on any of the new pickups, even the entry level XL or WT.  Yup, I'm feeling pretty smug


That I agree with completely


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## SpaceBus (Apr 22, 2020)

We really want the new Jeep Wrangler truck, but we are both out of work now.... It's really frustrating, as things were lined up to be a good year this year for us in terms of income.


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## Ashful (Apr 22, 2020)

CaptSpiff said:


> I don't like the load height on any of the new pickups, even the entry level XL or WT.  Yup, I'm feeling pretty smug


I’m fine with the load height, but as I approach my second half century I am starting to dislike the jumping into the bed height.  I might turn into one of those old farts with a drop step on their tailgate, in a few more years.


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## begreen (Apr 22, 2020)

I didn't like the load height on our XLT at all.


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## peakbagger (Apr 22, 2020)

My Unimogs load height is 4'6" unloaded.


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## bholler (Apr 22, 2020)

Ashful said:


> I’m fine with the load height, but as I approach my second half century I am starting to dislike the jumping into the bed height.  I might turn into one of those old farts with a drop step on their tailgate, in a few more years.


You must not load buckets of brick sand gravel etc in your truck a few times a week lol.  I am fine with them making higher ride height an option but why not make lower work truck for us contractors?


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## NickW (Apr 22, 2020)

Ashful said:


> I’m fine with the load height, but as I approach my second half century I am starting to dislike the jumping into the bed height.  I might turn into one of those old farts with a drop step on their tailgate, in a few more years.


The older I get, the higher they seem; and with the ACL replacement I don't like crawling up in there with the cap. Luckily, my boys are around a fair amount of the time. I did comment when I first saw the ad with the step that it was a good idea.


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## MTY (Apr 23, 2020)

I just want to know if I should pour the quail feed directly into the air cleaner on the truck, thereby eliminating the middle mouse, or should I continue to throw it on the ground.


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## ABMax24 (Apr 23, 2020)

I just want a new diesel truck without the emissions equipment that always breaks on the coldest day of winter.


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## blades (Apr 23, 2020)

heck ,I'd just like a diesel truck ( 1 ton) that doesn't break down from emission /computer problems period. For that matter you can include  gas units in that.  I have had both.  Course here you are damned from the start with the road deicing agents.


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## PaulOinMA (Apr 23, 2020)

MTY said:


> … I just want to know if I should pour the quail feed directly into the air cleaner on the truck, thereby eliminating the middle mouse, or should I continue to throw it on the ground …





I started the Moke one spring after it was stored in the garage all winter.  Lots of black stuff sprayed out of the exhaust and was on the ground.  Thought it was really strange.  Never happened before.  Probably soot from he exhaust that was loosened.  Looked closely.  Sunflower seeds!

A mouse had spent all winter picking sunflower seeds out of the bird food in the backyard, taking it all the way around the house, and packing the muffler.  I was more amazed at how industrious the mouse was more than anything.  I took a picture.


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## PaulOinMA (Apr 23, 2020)

NickW said:


> … The older I get, the higher they seem; and with the ACL replacement I don't like crawling up in there with the cap …



  Former work colleague played college basketball in the 1950s.  I had a work picnic at our house in 1997.  We were standing on the driveway drinking beer.  He looked up at the basketball rim above us and asked if it was regulation height.  I replied that it was.  10 feet.

"Looks so much higher now."


----------



## Ashful (Apr 23, 2020)

bholler said:


> You must not load buckets of brick sand gravel etc in your truck a few times a week lol.  I am fine with them making higher ride height an option but why not make lower work truck for us contractors?


Not a few times per week, I’m just a weekend warrior, and my 1/2 ton trucks (even off-road edition) may be a few inches lower than your 3/4 or 1-tonners.  I’m also fairly tall so my tailgate is about hip high on me, and anything heavy getting loaded into the truck is usually brought there in the bucket of my tractor, so it’s pretty nice and ergonomic to park the bucket close to tailgate height and lift the objects across.  Not a big deal for me.

But last weekend I was doing some grounds work at church, and didn’t feel like hooking up a trailer to bring my tractor with me for light garden work, so I just put 2/3’rds of a yard of mulch and a wheelbarrow in the bed of the truck, and headed over there.  I was mighty tired of climbing in and out of the bed to fork mulch out of it, after a few hours cleaning out and edging gardens.  That’s when the bed height bothers me, much more than hefting anything into it.


----------



## Sodbuster (Apr 24, 2020)

Ashful said:


> Not a few times per week, I’m just a weekend warrior, and my 1/2 ton trucks (even off-road edition) may be a few inches lower than your 3/4 or 1-tonners.  I’m also fairly tall so my tailgate is about hip high on me, and anything heavy getting loaded into the truck is usually brought there in the bucket of my tractor, so it’s pretty nice and ergonomic to park the bucket close to tailgate height and lift the objects across.  Not a big deal for me.
> 
> But last weekend I was doing some grounds work at church, and didn’t feel like hooking up a trailer to bring my tractor with me for light garden work, so I just put 2/3’rds of a yard of mulch and a wheelbarrow in the bed of the truck, and headed over there.  I was mighty tired of climbing in and out of the bed to fork mulch out of it, after a few hours cleaning out and edging gardens.  That’s when the bed height bothers me, much more than hefting anything into it.





blades said:


> heck ,I'd just like a diesel truck ( 1 ton) that doesn't break down from emission /computer problems period. For that matter you can include  gas units in that.  I have had both.  Course here you are damned from the start with the road deicing agents.



Speaking of emissions our county just bought a brand new loader to replace their old worn out one. It was a brand new Komatsu, and once loaded off the trailer refused to run in anything but limp mode. County foreman was not happy.  Had the CAT guy there all day working on it. At what point is clean enough?


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## MTY (Apr 24, 2020)

I have been living on ladders the last few weeks.  Up, down, up, down all day long taping and mudding.  I have never been fat, but I bet I am somewhere between 10 and 15% body fat.  The legs are getting a good work out, so I can feel your pain from climbing in and out of the truck. 
On flat ground I used to be able to take one step up into the F250 bed.  I have not tried that in awhile.  Maybe next week when I haul the 8N up to the property. 


Ashful said:


> But last weekend I was doing some grounds work at church, and didn’t feel like hooking up a trailer to bring my tractor with me for light garden work, so I just put 2/3’rds of a yard of mulch and a wheelbarrow in the bed of the truck, and headed over there.  I was mighty tired of climbing in and out of the bed to fork mulch out of it, after a few hours cleaning out and edging gardens.  That’s when the bed height bothers me, much more than hefting anything into it.


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## NickW (Apr 24, 2020)

blades said:


> heck ,I'd just like a diesel truck ( 1 ton) that doesn't break down from emission /computer problems period. For that matter you can include  gas units in that.  I have had both.  Course here you are damned from the start with the road deicing agents.


Never had electronics issues in my Dodge 1 ton diesel; but it's an '05, so pre-emission. Goes through joints like a SOB though - ball joints & u-joints constantly... 334,500 miles and runs great yet. It'll probably fall apart around me some day but still run...


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## SpaceBus (Apr 24, 2020)

NickW said:


> Never had electronics issues in my Dodge 1 ton diesel; but it's an '05, so pre-emission. Goes through joints like a SOB though - ball joints & u-joints constantly... 334,500 miles and runs great yet. It'll probably fall apart around me some day but still run...


My 06 developed a rumble at low speeds, soon to be $600 lighter for differential carrier bearing replacement. Not bad for 250,000 miles (bought it 2018 with 240,000) though. So far it has had a turbo failure, front calipers replaced, all the ball joints, u joints, steering components (upgraded to 08 style), shocks, and some other odds and ends replaced. It runs strong, especially with the new turbo, it's just a stocker with some billet upgrades. The fuel economy is amazing for such a large truck. I hope to never replace this truck and keep up on the frame and chassis maintenance.


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## Ashful (Apr 24, 2020)

Living in the northeast, I consider the lifetime of my trucks to be about 10-12 years, thanks to road salt.  They can be driven well past that, but they start to look like hell, and you start dealing with stupid annoyances like exhaust rot.

So I guess I don’t really care if any truck can go 200k or 300k miles, as I’m selling it at 10-12 years’ age with less than 70k miles on the odometer.  This is why a slower and more expensive diesel has just never had any appeal to me, those are best left to the guys that might rack up a couple of hundred thousand miles on a new truck before trade-in, not the average personal-use vehicle.  Looking at the abundance of used trucks for sale with similar mileage, to where I sell mine, I don’t think I’m unique among new truck buyers in this regard.


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## blades (Apr 24, 2020)

I run about 34000 miles a year at present used to  be double that.   the current estimate is spread between two units though. 16 Escape 105000 miles, 03 F250 Diesel 231000.  hpop, fuel regulator and pressure sensor, couple heat exchangers, glow plugs, and injectors on the diesel over the past 2.5 years. so if that area holds together maybe i can get after the front end compoents - universals and ball joints to start, likely need shocks up there also.


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## Ashful (Apr 24, 2020)

Anyone else here used to hearing folks whistle when they walk by the back of their truck?  My trucks are always clean and straight outside, I like keeping my vehicles nice, but the inside of the bed on some of my trucks have looked like they’ve been abused by the least cautious crew of contractors you’ll ever meet.  My ‘05 Ram actually had the ribbing steam-rolled out of the floor of the bed, and the mounts punched up into the bed to such a degree that more than one person asked me, “how the hell did you do that?”

Yet I still often won’t park it next to someone at the store... no tolerance for door dings.


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## Sodbuster (Apr 24, 2020)

I'm at 11 years on mine and have no inclination to replace it. The engine and drive train are good and I keep the maintenance schedule very strict, and I do it myself, I just don't trust the Fast Eddy's oil change places, and I won't pay dealer prices. The rust has spread like a cancer, and would be very hard to fix myself, although I might try it this summer.  I've talked to enough body shop guys who could've just taken my money who's advice was they all rust, let it go.


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## NickW (Apr 24, 2020)

All the door dings on my '05 blend in with the rust, brush scratches, tree dings and unwitting jackknifes... Buy 'em used and a little dinged up but solid mechanically. Nothing worse than the first scratch or ding in a brand new vehicle! A month after buying the wife's brand new van she sideswiped the garbage can in the garage . That was 11 1/2 years and 285k miles ago.


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## Ashful (Apr 24, 2020)

NickW said:


> A month after buying the wife's brand new van she sideswiped the garbage can in the garage . That was 11 1/2 years and 285k miles ago.


Three weeks after buying my current truck, a deer ran at full gallop into the tailgate while it was parked in my driveway.  Two small creases in the tailgate and a dent in the chrome bumper, believe it or not.  The deer the symptoms of chronic wasting disease and had just been shot in the ass while standing still by a state trooper at about 10 yards distance with a high power automatic pistol wearing a laser scope.  He was aiming for a chest shot, but he barely clipped its hind-quarter from 30 feet with a slow and deliberate shot... I hope I never need to rely on his protection.  That was only 3 years and 15k miles ago, and it's still the first thing I see every time I approach the truck.


----------



## NickW (Apr 24, 2020)

Never fix it. A story like that should up the resale value...


----------



## ABMax24 (Apr 25, 2020)

I've got a '14 F350 with the 6.7 Powerstroke. Other than a cracked exhaust filter, leaking rad hose, 1 ball joint, and a cracked transfer case housing its been flawless for the last 138,000 km (86,000 miles). The exhaust filter issue was "fixed" 1.5 years into owning it, never again did it throw an emissions code and of course it has smelt like a diesel ever since. Everything else was warranty work, even the transfer case housing I cracked when pulling a big hill in the winter. The truck hit ice and spun the tires hitting the speed limiter it was spinning so hard then grabbed dry pavement, the angle on the driveshaft from the lift didn't help that either.

My Fiance has a '18 Chevrolet Colorado with the 2.8 Liter Duramax Diesel with 28,000 km (17,000 miles). This thing has been nothing but trouble, the turbo has been replaced 3 times now (they form ice in the intake in cold weather and the turbo ingests it), the steering box was replaced, the def pump and def lines have been replaced, the ECM also fried when it was being updated and that has been replaced.

At the rate we're going I'll never get a new truck, as my F350 will likely far outlive this Colorado.


----------



## SpaceBus (Apr 25, 2020)

ABMax24 said:


> I've got a '14 F350 with the 6.7 Powerstroke. Other than a cracked exhaust filter, leaking rad hose, 1 ball joint, and a cracked transfer case housing its been flawless for the last 138,000 km (86,000 miles). The exhaust filter issue was "fixed" 1.5 years into owning it, never again did it throw an emissions code and of course it has smelt like a diesel ever since. Everything else was warranty work, even the transfer case housing I cracked when pulling a big hill in the winter. The truck hit ice and spun the tires hitting the speed limiter it was spinning so hard then grabbed dry pavement, the angle on the driveshaft from the lift didn't help that either.
> 
> My Fiance has a '18 Chevrolet Colorado with the 2.8 Liter Duramax Diesel with 28,000 km (17,000 miles). This thing has been nothing but trouble, the turbo has been replaced 3 times now (they form ice in the intake in cold weather and the turbo ingests it), the steering box was replaced, the def pump and def lines have been replaced, the ECM also fried when it was being updated and that has been replaced.
> 
> At the rate we're going I'll never get a new truck, as my F350 will likely far outlive this Colorado.


I had read about F150 turbo gassers having a similar issue, but obviously not as much of an issue with a gas engine vs diesel.


----------



## PaulOinMA (Apr 25, 2020)

NickW said:


> ... Nothing worse than the first scratch or ding in a brand new vehicle!



So true.  I cut too sharp coming out of a parking lot in a new car 10 years ago and curbed a wheel.  I was ticked!


----------



## ABMax24 (Apr 25, 2020)

SpaceBus said:


> I had read about F150 turbo gassers having a similar issue, but obviously not as much of an issue with a gas engine vs diesel.



They have definitely had their issues as well, but I don't know anyone that's had half the issues with the ecoboost that we have had with this colorado. If we could go back in time we would have never bought the truck as GM refuses to stand behind their product. We have to take it in again on Monday, it sounds like one or more of the motor mounts has gone as the engine vibration rattles throughout the entire truck.


----------



## begreen (Apr 28, 2020)

SpaceBus said:


> I had read about F150 turbo gassers having a similar issue, but obviously not as much of an issue with a gas engine vs diesel.


Our F150 eco-boost ran smooth as a kitten. It was an impressive setup. Tons of torque. One thing I did read was that the intercooler duct can accumulate moisture. Owners were drilling a small weep hole at the low spot to eliminate this issue. There are several youtube videos on the topic.


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## SpaceBus (Apr 28, 2020)

begreen said:


> Our F150 eco-boost ran smooth as a kitten. It was an impressive setup. Tons of torque. One thing I did read was that the intercooler duct can accumulate moisture. Owners were drilling a small weep hole at the low spot to eliminate this issue. There are several youtube videos on the topic.



That is a questionable way to prevent that issue. I can't say I would suggest a modification that would place metal particles inside of the intake tract or permitting unmetered and unfiltered air into the engine.  Perhaps a catch can system would work better. For the record I think the Ford Ecoboost six cylinder engines are great, but I have not had any first hand experience with the new 2.7TT. The 3.5TT, at least in the F150, is a powerhouse. That's not the engine I would spec for better fuel economy, but definitely the pick for the torque delivery. I think Ford made a mistake trying to pitch it as power of a V8 with fuel economy of a V6. A better idea would have been selling them on the power and durability. A hot DOHC high RPM V8 probably wasn't a good pick for the F150, and I think the 3.5TT was intended from the start to be the top engine pick.


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## begreen (Apr 28, 2020)

It's a 1/16" hole and I have not read of any negative effects. Yes, some folks do the catch can and that is a good alternative. I was wondering if this is what is plaguing the Colorado too?

We had the 3.5 ecoboost and it had gobs of power. When not under great load on fairly level ground at 55-60mph it got good economy, but under load or up mountains that disappeared as soon as the turbos kicked in. I was getting 12-14mpg with the camper on and about 9mpg if going over local passes. I have a buddy with a 2015, naturally aspirated 5.0L V8 that gets better mileage under load on the same roads. 

I sold the truck and camper last year and switched to a 2018 Dodge Grand Caravan. I love it. It gets great gas mileage, hauls a ton of stuff (including 7 passengers) and with the stowaway seats it makes a great camper. Over the same 6,000 ft passes I am now getting 28mpg average and 30 with regular freeway driving.


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## SpaceBus (Apr 28, 2020)

begreen said:


> It's a 1/16" hole and I have not read of any negative effects. Yes, some folks do the catch can and that is a good alternative. I was wondering if this is what is plaguing the Colorado too?
> 
> We had the 3.5 ecoboost and it had gobs of power. When not under great load on fairly level ground at 55-60mph it got good economy, but under load or up mountains that disappeared as soon as the turbos kicked in. I was getting 12-14mpg with the camper on and about 9mpg if going over local passes. I have a buddy with a 2015, naturally aspirated 5.0L V8 that gets better mileage under load on the same roads.
> 
> I sold the truck and camper last year and switched to a 2018 Dodge Grand Caravan. I love it. It gets great gas mileage, hauls a ton of stuff (including 7 passengers) and with the stowaway seats it makes a great camper. Over the same 6,000 ft passes I am now getting 28mpg average and 30 with regular freeway driving.


I have a secret love for minivans. I converted my wife a few summers back when we had a tire failure on the side of the road and were able to call in a rental van. We had three dogs in the car with us, so it was amazing for the rest of the drive. If they did better over the near logging roads we deal with locally I would probably buy one of the various vans on the market.  I have considered buying an imported Mitsubishi Delica, but the time is not right for anything like that. My 06 Dually diesel four door averages 24 MPG around the hilly countryside. I think it averaged 18 MPG towing all of our stuff through the Green and White mountains when we moved to Maine.


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## begreen (Apr 28, 2020)

We had a Honda Odyssey several years ago. It was a good car, but I like the Dodge a lot better. It is more practical and gets better mileage. That said I do worry a bit when I take it on some of the rowdier roads that lead up to trailheads. Unfortunately, they don't come in AWD. I was torn about getting an Outback instead, but I need that huge opening to load things like garbage cans for the biannual dump run. That and the fact that we rarely get snow down in the lowlands, biased me toward the van.


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## Ashful (Apr 28, 2020)

begreen said:


> We had a Honda Odyssey several years ago. It was a good car, but I like the Dodge a lot better. It is more practical and gets better mileage. That said I do worry a bit when I take it on some of the rowdier roads that lead up to trailheads. Unfortunately, they don't come in AWD. I was torn about getting an Outback instead, but I need that huge opening to load things like garbage cans for the biannual dump run. That and the fact that we rarely get snow down in the lowlands, biased me toward the van.


We just went with a Durango R/T for the same usage profile. It’s full time AWD with a shift knob to select 4wheel low.  Bonus: it’ll tow my 7000 lb tandem axle trailer, it even came preloaded with a factory in-dash proportional brake controller, and it will be a great family boat hauler.  Seats 6-7, depending on configuration, plus storage, plus roof rack.  Nice big rear hatch for begreen’s garbage cans, although since it’s my wife’s car, the only hauling I’ve done with it is grass seed and fertilizer on days too rainy to use my pickup.  

I’d have preferred a 300+ mile EV with the same space, performance, and price point, but this will do just fine until the market provides that.  My wife’s commute is 200 miles round trip, and this thing gets surprising good mileage for 5.7 liters.


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## PaulOinMA (Apr 28, 2020)

VW did an intercooler kit that I had installed after my 2011 Jetta Sportwagen TDI wouldn't start.  I told the tow truck driver what the problem was and to just tow me to the dealership.  He tried to start it with a battery, and burned out the starter.

Intercooler lockup was a big problem with the VW diesel about 10 years ago.


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## SpaceBus (Apr 28, 2020)

PaulOinMA said:


> VW did an intercooler kit that I had installed after my 2011 Jetta Sportwagen TDI wouldn't start.  I told the tow truck driver what the problem was and to just tow me to the dealership.  He tried to start it with a battery, and burned out the starter.
> 
> Intercooler lockup was a big problem with the VW diesel about 10 years ago.


Because water and water vapor does weird things inside of diesel engines.


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## PaulOinMA (Apr 28, 2020)

Yeah.  It was a big issue in cold weather and condensation.  I knew what the problem was from tdiclub.com, and I needed a tow to the dealer.  Tow guy kept trying to get it to start even though I told him it wouldn't start. 

He finally stopped when he asked, "what's burning?"

That would be my starter.


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## ABMax24 (Apr 28, 2020)

SpaceBus said:


> I have a secret love for minivans. I converted my wife a few summers back when we had a tire failure on the side of the road and were able to call in a rental van. We had three dogs in the car with us, so it was amazing for the rest of the drive. If they did better over the near logging roads we deal with locally I would probably buy one of the various vans on the market.  I have considered buying an imported Mitsubishi Delica, but the time is not right for anything like that. My 06 Dually diesel four door averages 24 MPG around the hilly countryside. I think it averaged 18 MPG towing all of our stuff through the Green and White mountains when we moved to Maine.



If your getting 24 mpg out of a 1 ton dually that's pretty respectable. In my F350 I'm getting 16 mpg on the flat highway empty, that goes down to 10 mpg towing my fifth wheel.


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## ABMax24 (Apr 28, 2020)

begreen said:


> It's a 1/16" hole and I have not read of any negative effects. Yes, some folks do the catch can and that is a good alternative. I was wondering if this is what is plaguing the Colorado too?



From what I have read catch cans can help with the problems on the Colorado's. The problem for us is at the sub -20c temps we have the catch can is also froze solid and runs the risk of plugging off the crankcase vent, and on the 2.8 Duramax if the crankcase is over pressured for the first seal to blow out is the rear main, which makes for a messy expensive repair.

I think what I'm going to do is just vent it to atmosphere and keep that moisture out of the intake completely.


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## SpaceBus (Apr 28, 2020)

ABMax24 said:


> If your getting 24 mpg out of a 1 ton dually that's pretty respectable. In my F350 I'm getting 16 mpg on the flat highway empty, that goes down to 10 mpg towing my fifth wheel.



It's an 06 5.9 24v, so pre emissions and it's also a six speed. Loaded seems to be the same FE and I haven't been close to loading up a trailer to its max yet.


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## SpaceBus (Apr 28, 2020)

ABMax24 said:


> From what I have read catch cans can help with the problems on the Colorado's. The problem for us is at the sub -20c temps we have the catch can is also froze solid and runs the risk of plugging off the crankcase vent, and on the 2.8 Duramax if the crankcase is over pressured for the first seal to blow out is the rear main, which makes for a messy expensive repair.
> 
> I think what I'm going to do is just vent it to atmosphere and keep that moisture out of the intake completely.


Could you put a check valve on a direct atmosphere vent? I guess like a BOV or nitrous purge valve.


----------



## ABMax24 (Apr 28, 2020)

SpaceBus said:


> Could you put a check valve on a direct atmosphere vent? I guess like a BOV or nitrous purge valve.



I could, but again worried about icing of that valve. I would just point the vent downward to keep moisture and dirt out, these motors have a fair bit of blow-by so the flow is always out of the vent.


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## ABMax24 (Apr 28, 2020)

SpaceBus said:


> It's an 06 5.9 24v, so pre emissions and it's also a six speed. Loaded seems to be the same FE and I haven't been close to loading up a trailer to its max yet.



I'm also emission free as well, not that it made a difference to fuel economy on this truck. I notice that weight doesn't make much of a difference to fuel economy unless driving in stop and go traffic. Although wind resistance does make a big difference, my fifth wheel is 8' 4" wide, 13' 6" high and 33' long so there is a lot of extra wind drag there.


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## SpaceBus (Apr 28, 2020)

ABMax24 said:


> I'm also emission free as well, not that it made a difference to fuel economy on this truck. I notice that weight doesn't make much of a difference to fuel economy unless driving in stop and go traffic. Although wind resistance does make a big difference, my fifth wheel is 8' 4" wide, 13' 6" high and 33' long so there is a lot of extra wind drag there.


I was hoping to get a gooseneck equipment trailer this year, but with recent events I've put the money elsewhere.


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## Ashful (Apr 28, 2020)

ABMax24 said:


> I'm also emission free as well, not that it made a difference to fuel economy on this truck. I notice that weight doesn't make much of a difference to fuel economy unless driving in stop and go traffic. Although wind resistance does make a big difference, my fifth wheel is 8' 4" wide, 13' 6" high and 33' long so there is a lot of extra wind drag there.


That length is helping you, at least in theory.  You may recall that I’m into sailing, used to do a bit of sailboat racing, now just spirited cruising with the kids.  In any case, displacement (as in non-planing and non-foil) hulls suffer from something known as hull speed, the speed at which shearing of the water molecules between the wetted surface (I.e. the molecules sticking to the hull), and the surrounding water reaches a critical rate, as calculated by Reynolds number.   When this number hits roughly 1 million, the energy required to push the hull any faster goes up exponentially, and this is why displacement hulls of a given length typically travel at a given speed.   Air is about 1000 times less dense than water and 50 times less viscous, so the critical speed becomes v = 1E6/7E4/L, with all units in meters and seconds.  Your 10m trailer should be pretty friendly on mpg up to 1.42 m/s or 5.1 km/hr.  You just need to drive slower. 

I will admit I just had a double Old Fashioned, so it’s very possible I lost a decimal place in the math.


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## ABMax24 (Apr 28, 2020)

Ashful said:


> That length is helping you, at least in theory.  You may recall that I’m into sailing, used to do a bit of sailboat racing, now just spirited cruising with the kids.  In any case, displacement (as in non-planing and non-foil) hulls suffer from something known as hull speed, the speed at which shearing of the water molecules between the wetted surface (I.e. the molecules sticking to the hull), and the surrounding water reaches a critical rate, as calculated by Reynolds number.   When this number hits roughly 1 million, the energy required to push the hull any faster goes up exponentially, and this is why displacement hulls of a given length typically travel at a given speed.   Air is about 1000 times less dense than water and 50 times less viscous, so the critical speed becomes v = 1E6/7E4/L, with all units in meters and seconds.  Your 10m trailer should be pretty friendly on mpg up to 1.42 m/s or 5.1 km/hr.  You just need to drive slower.
> 
> I will admit I just had a double Old Fashioned, so it’s very possible I lost a decimal place in the math.



That very well could be, although I'd have very angry fellow motorists and an even angrier co-pilot at those speeds. But there is a very noticeable difference it fuel economy at increasing speeds, 110 km/hr is the fastest I tow it, at 120 km/hr the truck works much harder and burns significantly more fuel than the 9% increase in speed over 110 km/hr. Ideally though I try to run closer to 100 km/hr.

I also like boating, although we don't have big enough lakes for sailing, so I run a little 13ft jet boat on the rivers, at 25 mph I burn 4 gal/hr of gasoline, at 55 mph i'm up to 20 gal/hr. To double the speed it takes 4 times the energy, which in my case is just about spot on. I also take great interest in the race boats they run on the local river once per year. The bottom class runs CT 525 crate engines at 533 hp and achieve 90 mph top speed. The top unlimited boats are pushing 1850 hp from a helicopter turboshaft jet engine to achieve 155 mph. Works here too double the speed 4 times the energy.

To tie this back to the original topic, our little diesel Colorado works in a similar way, although less drag from air than water. At 80 km/hr we get 7.0 L/100km. At 110 km/hr we get 8.3 L/ 100km. The weird thing is this truck carries that 8.3 L/100km all the way to 125 km/hr. There seems to be an anomaly in the tuning that at highway cruise it burns the same amount of fuel making more power at a higher rpm, which defies everything I understand about drag and engine pumping losses. The only thing I can think of is it increases injection timing and might reduce the number of injections per cycle as the rpm go up.


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## Ashful (Apr 29, 2020)

No comment on your last point, but the 4x energy to 2x speed observation would agree with my rudimentary understanding of the physics.  Even in the absence of drag, the kinetic energy of an object is proportional to velocity squared, and by reciprocity the reverse would hold, it takes 4x the energy to double the velocity.

Drag is simply another force, proportional to velocity, and that force multiplied by your displacement (distance traveled) would also go into the energy equation.  Possibly something like E = (m*v^2)/2 + Fd*s, where Fd is the drag force and s is the distance traveled.  But I’m not so close to my school days anymore that I can quickly boil that all down to mpg, without sitting down and writing it out, which ain’t gonna happen in the three minutes I have to kill with my phone right this moment.


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## Ludlow (Jul 18, 2020)

FYI regarding electronic power steering:









						GM Recalls More Than 1 Million Trucks, SUVs for Steering Problem
					

GM is recalling more than a million trucks and SUVs because of an electrical issue that may cause a sudden loss of power steering.



					www.consumerreports.org


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## bholler (Jul 31, 2020)

Ludlow said:


> FYI regarding electronic power steering:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


To be fair they also recently had a recall due to brakes.  Maybe it is just gm not electric power steering.









						GM Recalling Nearly 3.5 Million Trucks Over Braking Problems
					

GM recalls nearly 3.5 million trucks and SUVs due to a braking problem that could make braking difficult, which could increase risks of a crash.




					www-motor1-com.cdn.ampproject.org


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## bholler (Jul 31, 2020)

Or their seatbelt tensioners









						GM Recalls 2019-2020 Pickup Trucks Due to Fire Risk
					

Consumer Reports shares of the GM recall of 2019-2020 pickup trucks. More than half a million Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra light- and heavy-duty pickup trucks are being recalled due to concerns that seat belt pretensioners, when deployed to tighten belt amid a collision, could lead to a fire.



					www.consumerreports.org


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## Ludlow (Aug 3, 2020)

Subaru Recalling 10,417 Vehicles Because of Power Steering Problem | MotorSafety.org
					






					www.motorsafety.org


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## Ludlow (Aug 3, 2020)

Too prone to failure IMO.


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## bholler (Aug 3, 2020)

Suzuki SX4s Are Recalled for a Steering Problem
					

Consumer Reports shares details of the Suzuki SX4 recall, which is due to concerns with power steering systems that may seize. The automaker says the power steering pump may seize, risking a crash.



					www.consumerreports.org
				






			https://www.cars.com/research/saturn-vue/recalls/
		


If you search older recalls there were plenty of recalls on hydraulic power steering systems as well.    There is absolutely nothing inherently wrong with electric power assist steering.


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## begreen (Aug 3, 2020)

I've been driving cars since 2006 with electric power steering. Never an issue. Just another data point.


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## ABMax24 (Aug 3, 2020)

I'll always take electric power steering over hydraulic. There's nothing worse than blowing a hose or seal in a traditional power steering system in -40 and pumping power steering fluid all over the place.


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## Ludlow (Aug 3, 2020)

The difference between the two upon a failure is the underlying issue.  Hydraulic can be steered in a failure. Electric is nearly impossible to steer for any woman or slightest of men. Try it sometime in your driveway.  

There is no going back to hydraulic now so its a moot point. Happened to both a Ford and a GM in my family. Scares the Hell out of women drivers thats for sure.


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## Ludlow (Aug 3, 2020)

bholler said:


> Suzuki SX4s Are Recalled for a Steering Problem
> 
> 
> Consumer Reports shares details of the Suzuki SX4 recall, which is due to concerns with power steering systems that may seize. The automaker says the power steering pump may seize, risking a crash.
> ...




Suzukis are the worst vehicles on the road so fail. Glorified go-karts.


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## bholler (Aug 3, 2020)

Ludlow said:


> Suzukis are the worst vehicles on the road so fail. Glorified go-karts.


Judging by the recent gm truck recalls for brakes steering the seatbelts self combusting etc I am not sure suzukis are the worst vehicles on the road.


And there have been hundreds of recalls on hydraulic assist steering systems.  Electric is actually far less complicated with far fewer failure points.


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## Ludlow (Aug 3, 2020)

GM does suck and I own one so I outta know.


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## Ludlow (Aug 3, 2020)

bholler said:


> Judging by the recent gm truck recalls for brakes steering the seatbelts self combusting etc I am not sure suzukis are the worst vehicles on the road.
> 
> 
> And there have been hundreds of recalls on hydraulic assist steering systems.  Electric is actually far less complicated with far fewer failure points.


 
Hey slick........ You added the second part after I liked your post. So officially I half-like your post.


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## ABMax24 (Aug 3, 2020)

Ludlow said:


> The difference between the two upon a failure is the underlying issue.  Hydraulic can be steered in a failure. Electric is nearly impossible to steer for any woman or slightest of men. Try it sometime in your driveway.
> 
> There is no going back to hydraulic now so its a moot point. Happened to both a Ford and a GM in my family. Scares the Hell out of women drivers thats for sure.



It's way easier to steer any vehicle when moving vs when parked if the power steering fails, so not really a fair comparison. Many of the new electric power steering units are speed sensitive and actually provide less assist at highway speed vs slow speed for parking lot maneuvering. Our Colorado is this way and I like it, my F350 is almost too easy on the highway.


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## begreen (Aug 3, 2020)

Ludlow said:


> The difference between the two upon a failure is the underlying issue.  Hydraulic can be steered in a failure. Electric is nearly impossible to steer for any woman or slightest of men. Try it sometime in your driveway.
> 
> There is no going back to hydraulic now so its a moot point. Happened to both a Ford and a GM in my family. Scares the Hell out of women drivers thats for sure.


That’s pretty much like having a power steering pump belt break.


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## SpaceBus (Aug 4, 2020)

I'm 5'10" 160 lbs and I've driven many a vehicle with power steering failures. It's only difficult at a stop. The larger the wheel and tire package the harder it will be. On a truck it's more difficult than a compact hatchback, but once the vehicle is moving at all it becomes much easier.


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## SpaceBus (Aug 10, 2020)

New precision u joint was installed by my mechanic last spring. Probably less than 2,000 miles on it. What would cause this level of failure? Still waiting to hear back from the store I bought the u joint from and also my mechanic... 

Photo is viewing the driver's side hub/axle joint from the front bumper, wheel turned all the way to the driver's side.


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## bholler (Aug 10, 2020)

SpaceBus said:


> New precision u joint was installed by my mechanic last spring. Probably less than 2,000 miles on it. What would cause this level of failure? Still waiting to hear back from the store I bought the u joint from and also my mechanic...
> 
> Photo is viewing the driver's side hub/axle joint from the front bumper, wheel turned all the way to the driver's side.


It's part of a dodge drivelines.  No need for any more info.

Sorry I had to lol


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## SpaceBus (Aug 10, 2020)

bholler said:


> It's part of a dodge drivelines.  No need for any more info.
> 
> Sorry I had to lol


The rear driveshaft U Joint was binding up right before this started, so maybe there is some truth to it!


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## bholler (Aug 10, 2020)

SpaceBus said:


> The rear driveshaft U Joint was binding up right before this started, so maybe there is some truth to it!


I have had more trouble with dodge axles joints transmissions etc than any others.  So I am just biased.


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## johneh (Aug 10, 2020)

With the cap missing where the He double ll is the lock 
Looks like install error


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## festerw (Aug 10, 2020)

SpaceBus said:


> New precision u joint was installed by my mechanic last spring. Probably less than 2,000 miles on it. What would cause this level of failure? Still waiting to hear back from the store I bought the u joint from and also my mechanic...
> 
> Photo is viewing the driver's side hub/axle joint from the front bumper, wheel turned all the way to the driver's side.





johneh said:


> With the cap missing where the He double ll is the lock
> Looks like install error



Yup looks like the circlip wasn't installed all the way and the cap worked loose. Good time to put a Spicer joint there instead.


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## SpaceBus (Aug 11, 2020)

festerw said:


> Yup looks like the circlip wasn't installed all the way and the cap worked loose. Good time to put a Spicer joint there instead.





johneh said:


> With the cap missing where the He double ll is the lock
> Looks like install error



Thanks for the tips. I do regret not getting the Spicer, but the Precision had good reviews and many Dodge owners recommend them. Perhaps Precision quality has changed over the years. Either way, sounds like it is my Mechanic's problem.


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## bholler (Aug 11, 2020)

SpaceBus said:


> Thanks for the tips. I do regret not getting the Spicer, but the Precision had good reviews and many Dodge owners recommend them. Perhaps Precision quality has changed over the years. Either way, sounds like it is my Mechanic's problem.


My guess is he put the retainer clip in but didn't make sure it actually locked in correctly.   So yeah not a joint failure so dodge doesn't get the blame for this one.  Lol


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## SpaceBus (Aug 11, 2020)

Forgot to post this pic as well. This viewing the u joint from the "back" side, wheel turned towards the passenger side of the truck. That's the brake caliper on the left for reference. Can't find where the u joint ear contacted the hub or whatever.

When my mechanic did the u-joints he also replaced the ball joints, hubs, steering components, etc. Pretty much a total maintenance overhaul. I think the only wear item that hasn't been replaced in the last year would be the rear wheel bearings, but they aren't showing any signs or symptoms of having issues.


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## semipro (Aug 11, 2020)

bholler said:


> My guess is he put the retainer clip in but didn't make sure it actually locked in correctly.   So yeah not a joint failure so dodge doesn't get the blame for this one.  Lol


Agreed. It's real easy to get one of the needle bearings out of place so that it prevents the cap from seating far enough in to install the circlip properly. 
This can also cause a driveline vibration since the u joint is installed uncentered.
As a former mechanic I'd call that hack work.


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## bholler (Aug 11, 2020)

semipro said:


> Agreed. It's real easy to get one of the needle bearings out of place so that it prevents the cap from seating far enough in to install the circlip properly.
> This can also cause a driveline vibration since the u joint is installed uncentered.
> As a former mechanic I'd call that hack work.


Agreed.  Not saying I haven't done it but I am not a pro mechanic


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## semipro (Aug 11, 2020)

bholler said:


> Agreed.  Not saying I haven't done it but I am not a pro mechanic


I've got a needle bearing out of place many times but never let it leave the shop that way (that I know of).


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## SpaceBus (Aug 11, 2020)

Thanks for the replies. My truck won't be seen until the 27th, so I've got some time before I talk to my mechanic. I wish I had the tools and space to do it myself at home.


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