# RE: Fleas



## firefighterjake (Jul 19, 2012)

I've got them . . . or more specifically the house and cats. Applying Frontline to the cats . . . vacuuming the house daily and doing a ton of laundry.

Any other suggestions on how to deal with them or rather get rid of them (the time for making deals is over  )  . . . my wife is going bonkers with them as they seem to be flourishing despite our best attempts. Bombed one room and when she went in three of them jumped her . . . or rather jumped on her . . . well maybe I was right the first time -- they might have been holding a knife or pistol.


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## wingsfan (Jul 19, 2012)

Bombing just one room wont do it. You need to bomb the whole house. they could have eggs all over the place. When we had them the whole house bombing worked for us. Also keep the animals in frontline at all times.


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## ironpony (Jul 19, 2012)

when we had them a couple of years ago, we used a spray from TSC which kills the egg I think, there is only one phase of thier life cycle you can kill them.
this along with vacuuming everday did the trick


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## DAKSY (Jul 19, 2012)

Don't just vacuum your house with an empty bag on your machine. Grab a couple of dog or cat flea collars & put one or two in the vacuum cleaner bag. It will help to kill any that are sucked up & will kill the eggs as well.
I've had good luck with the RAID flea foggers/bombs that are sold at local supermarkets. You hafta close the house up tight & remove the people, pets & plants for an hour or so, but that's a minor inconvenience compared to dealing with them nasty little bastiges. We deal with them almost EVERY fall/winter as the cold weather chases them onto the pets. Frontline works well around here, but I can't get my daughter (dog) & GF (cat) to stick to a regular application schedule...


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## BrotherBart (Jul 19, 2012)

All I can offer is condolences. We got hit last July and it took forever to get rid of them. I threw everything in the world at them and probably made this place a candidate for a Superfund site. I guess the Frontline was a major player in stopping them. It is a year round treatment around here from now on. I have been sitting on the proverbial pins and needles this year.


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## Delta-T (Jul 19, 2012)

very large sub woofer...about 2000 watts of amplifier and some Jaco Pastoius or Victor Wooten albums.....45minutes to an hour later and they all shaken to pieces....I think.


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## Backwoods Savage (Jul 19, 2012)

Cedar.


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## Dix (Jul 19, 2012)

Mule Team Borax.


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## jeff_t (Jul 19, 2012)

We went the Orkin route. Found one about two weeks later, and he came back and sprayed again. Thirty day guarantee, I think, and the guy said it started over when he came back. Been religious with Frontline, year round, and haven't seen any since. I don't remember the exact cost, but it was well worth it to us.


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## mithesaint (Jul 19, 2012)

Hang in there.  NOTHING is going to make them go away right away.  Fleas have 4 life stages.  Egg, larva, pupae and adult.  The adults are the only stage that you can see, and they're just the tip of the iceberg.  The pupae are almost impossible to kill, so just resign yourself to the fact that they're gonna be around for awhile.  Make sure to keep the dogs and cats on flea meds all year round, and don't skimp on the cheap stuff.  Frontline works fine.  You might try something called Revolution for the cats.  It's never a bad idea to change up to a different med in case some of the fleas aren't killed by the Frontline, and the Revolution is pretty potent stuff.  

Area treatments like sprays have limited efficacy, but they probably won't hurt anything.  Bombs don't work that well.  

Fleas are a lot easier to prevent than they are to eradicate.


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## StihlHead (Jul 20, 2012)

It can take a while to erradicate a full blown infestation of certain types of fleas. It may also take a lot of work cleaning, washing, spraying, vacuuming, and repeated efforts. Persistance pays off. Never surrender, never yeild, and never give into the fleas, or they will drive you insane. I tend to get them bad here in February through April, but it varies from year to year.

As you have done, spot-on treat the cats with Frontline or Advantage. I have used both, they both work fairly well. I have tried a lot of others and they do not seem to work as well. If you have a REALLY bad infestation you may want to treat the cats every 3 weeks (that's what my vet recommened to me last year). They both will kill fleas, flea larvae and flea eggs. This time of year I can go 5 weeks between treatments for my cat, unless we are exposed to them somehow.

Keep yourselves from bringing home even more fleas. When they are bad around here, they are at the stores too, especially places like Home Depot where people tend to take their dogs (I do not know why they allow people to bring their flea infested dogs to those places, but they do). Note that a minority of people are actually allergic to flea bites, and many people are covered with them and do not even know it. I spray myself with Off with DEET before going to town when fleas are bad here in the spring, and I carry a can of it in the truck in case I am hit by them at a store or public place. Visits by friends can also bring them into the house, especially if they have untreated dogs with them, or flea infested pets at home.

Someone here mentioned Borax, and that kills fleas. I use a few TB of Borax in every load of laundry, and that will kill any fleas that are on your clothes. It works, and it is pretty cheap for the results that you get. Vacuum everything and spray the bags with flea spray.

Bomb the entire house, and use a bug bomb made specifically for fleas that has Precur in it. That is a growth regulator that prevents imature fleas from developing into adults. I also use Hartz yard and kennel spray that I mix in a floral sprayer and I spray the outside areas of the house, like the patios, deck and especially the door mats. That stuff lkills all stages of fleas, including the eggs. It is strong stuff, and you need to avoid the areas that are sprayed until it dries. I also use a flea spray called Enforcer Flea Spray for the home and I spray it on the stripped matress, furnature and corners of the rooms where fleas tend to hide. That stuff kills all stages of fleas and their eggs, which you have to kill in order to prevent a future infestation.  

Basically you have to completely nuke the little bastaids. Its total war, and I have to do all the above to keep them in check if I get an infestation here. When I bought this house it was completely infested with fleas, as the previous owners had a micro-mutt and it had a lot of carpets. Fleas can go and remain dormant for years, and they will wake up when they feel vibrations. Then they hop around looking for a host to feed on. I bombed the house with industrial strength bug spray, but that only worked on the fleas for about a year. I thought that my cat was brining fleas into the house, but it was the dormant fleas in the house the first year, along with the infested mice that were getting in from the yard. Then it was me that brought them home this year from shopping at a big box store that was riddled with them. I was getting bitten so much I left the store and complained to the manager on the way out. I sprayed with DEET in the parking lot and I washed my clothes as soon as I got home and showered, but that was not enough. I left a trail of the evil creatures wherever I was that day, and it took me a few weeks to erradicate them. I avoid PetCo like the plague. That place is always infested with fleas. I get most all my flea stuff online, as it is a lot cheaper than at PetCo and the like, and the mailwoman does not have fleas. 

There are also a wide variety of fleas out there, some 2,000 types in all? The most common (and somewhat tolerable) are cat fleas. They are a nuisence but they are controllable. There are other types that I call 'nuclear fleas.' Get a few of them on you and within a week they are driving you mad with bites that itch like mad. Likely they are a type of human flea (there are several). Most flea species are rather selective as to what species they like to dine on, but they will all pretty much bite any warm blodded animal that they come in contact with to see if they like the buffet. My yard seems to be full of deer fleas in late summer when they come around to dine on my gardens. I put up deer fences last year around my berries and so far they have avoided my yard this year. For some reason I do not get tick bites. Fortunate for me, my ex was a tick magnet and we would walk in the woods and we would have to do a full body check of her when we got back to the house. I never had one on me that I was aware of, but usually she would have 3 or 4 crawling around on her or starting to dig in for dinner. 

Good luck with your war. Never give up, never surrender... never become dinner.


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## semipro (Jul 20, 2012)

Diatomaceous earth may help.  We've used it in carpets before to kill fleas.
http://reviews.homedepot.com/1999/202072089/4-lb-diatomaceous-earth-reviews/reviews.htm


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## firefighterjake (Jul 20, 2012)

Thanks for the tips folks . . . glad to see I'm not alone in having to wage this war.

I think we may be gaining some ground already since treating the cats . . . that and the daily vacuuming and laundry . . . I've seen fewer fleas . . . although last night one of our cats had several hopping off her . . . those met an untimely death . . . drowning actually in the toilet.

As someone said, my vet suggested treating the cats every 3 weeks or so . . . for some reason I thought Frontline lasted a lot longer. Needless to say, I will be going back in a few weeks.

My wife also has treated the carpets and bedding . . . and we've closed off some areas after dosing the area. Limiting the cats to rooms that don't have thicker pile carpeting  and restricting them mostly to the areas with vinyl, hardwood, cement, etc. I think may be helping as well.

I'm going to run this thread off though and share some of the other tips with my wife tonight.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jul 20, 2012)

There is a horse wormer that is absolute death to fleas and a lot of other parasites however its use for other things would be off label and not exactly legal without a vets prescription. 

It is a systemic actor and absorbed through the skin and gets all stages of the life cycle of fleas its effective action time is a couple of months.

It gets used for far more than worming horses.


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## StihlHead (Jul 20, 2012)

You have to be very careful with crossing flea meds between species of animals. For example, dog treatments commonly have stuff in them that are very toxic to cats (permethrin, for example, which is synthetic pyrethrin). If the OP did not have cats, I would suggest pyrethrin sprays. When I lived in California the fleas were terrible, even living w/o cats or dogs. They even had roads there named after them like, "Avaneda de las Pulgas" which translates to: Avenue of the Fleas. I used a timed pyrethrin spray system in my studio apartment there that I got from a locker room in a gym that closed down. It was that bad on the beach in San Diego. The SF Bay Area was not much better. In California it was also year round. Here in the PNW at least the flea problem is seasonal, and mainly in the late winter/early spring.


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## woodsman23 (Jul 20, 2012)

dump the cats....


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## joel95ex (Jul 20, 2012)

you can bomb all you want with pesticides but the eggs and larvae will survive and fleas return in a month or two. you MUST use a growth inhibitor such as nylar which is in martins IG you can just mix it in a tank sprayer with or without demon insecticide(for quick knockdown) and it will END your flea problem----and treat the animals. the total cost of a demon envelope and nylar should be about 20 bucks----same stuff the exterminator uses and you can get it at nurseries. feed stores, etc. Dont waste time or money on anything else especially a professional service contract.----when we lived in the country, we had few freezes and the fleas would simply get tracked in and multiplied almost instantly,   i got the insect growth regulator, and some demon WP, totalling about 20 bucks and put a super light mist on carpet (at previous house) and then treated perimeter and entryway areas.  continue vacuuming etc. but flea problems are easier to solve than most people think if you treat the animals, vacuum a lot, use an insect growth inhibitor like Nylar, and some demon WP.


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## joel95ex (Jul 20, 2012)

here is what you need: check your local farm/ranch store, feed store, tractor supply, nursery/garden supply----lowe's and home depot do not carry it, some ace hardware have it

http://store.doyourownpestcontrol.com/martin-s-igr-insect-growth-regulator

and here is the demon wp ...it is about 12 bucks

http://www.tractorsupply.com/demon-reg-wp-insecticide-in-water-soluble-packets-4-pk--4202654

be sure to read labels closely..... this worked for me and several friends......BTW Texas fleas are straight from hell


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## Highbeam (Jul 20, 2012)

You need some good chemicals. Not the stuff from home depot, the stuff from online pest control chemical places like Joel linked you to. You will find that the real chemicals are often cheaper than the junk from home depot. Same stuff pros use only you are sometimes limited in volulme you can buy.


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## Locust Post (Jul 20, 2012)

As someone already mentioned Mule team borax. We had a round with them last year or maybe it was the year before. Sprinkle borax liberally all over the floors and leave it for the day (don't worry about the animals no need to contain them in another room). Vacuum that evening if that doesn't do it give it another round.


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## semipro (Jul 21, 2012)

semipro said:


> Diatomaceous earth may help. We've used it in carpets before to kill fleas.
> http://reviews.homedepot.com/1999/202072089/4-lb-diatomaceous-earth-reviews/reviews.htm


 
Some other, less toxic (at least to humans and cats) treatments are described here in case you're interested.
http://www.livestrong.com/article/127776-organic-rid-fleas/
Boric acid is mentioned.  Its the active ingredient in Borax, something that someone else mentioned. 
And yeah, some of this stuff is available at Home Depot.


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## begreen (Jul 21, 2012)

It's reasonable to be moderately concerned about fleas. They are disease vectors. This fellow didn't think too much about it till they found out he had the plague. Warning, the pic in this article is graphic.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/162820406.html


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## homebrewz (Jul 21, 2012)

Try a product called "Flea Busters". I ordered it through Amazon. I am not at all affiliated with the company, my vet recommended it. Without looking at the container, I believe its orthoboric acid. You sweep it into the floor, rug, upholstery, etc and just leave it. It kills all parts of the life cycle, whereas a lot of products just kill the adult fleas.


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## StihlHead (Jul 21, 2012)

begreen said:


> It's reasonable to be moderately concerned about fleas. They are disease vectors. This fellow didn't think too much about it till they found out he had the plague. Warning, the pic in this article is graphic.
> 
> http://www.komonews.com/news/local/162820406.html


 
Egads... Prineville? That is like WAY TOO F*ing CLOSE TO MY HOME!


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## mithesaint (Jul 22, 2012)

firefighterjake said:


> My wife also has treated the carpets and bedding . . . and we've closed off some areas after dosing the area. Limiting the cats to rooms that don't have thicker pile carpeting and restricting them mostly to the areas with vinyl, hardwood, cement, etc. I think may be helping as well.


 
You might reconsider closing off parts of the house.  The vacuuming and area treatments help, but there are still likely flea eggs in those areas.   Now that the cats are being treated, they are walking flea traps.  Let them go into the rooms, they will stimulate the fleas to finish the life-cycle, and the fleas will jump on the cats and be killed by the Frontline.  Otherwise, you'll probably still have issues.  They shouldn't be shedding too many more eggs.  Let the cats pick up the fleas, otherwise the fleas will choose to eat you instead, and I'm guessing you didn't put any Frontline on yourself...


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## woodsmaster (Jul 22, 2012)

Get rid of the carpet and put down hard surface flooring.


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## semipro (Jul 22, 2012)

Jake,
Did you notice?  Those here with names starting with "woods" want you to get rid of something other than just the fleas


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## woodsmaster (Jul 22, 2012)

Just an idea. We havn't had fleas in the house since we switched 3 years ago.


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## semipro (Jul 23, 2012)

woodsmaster said:


> Just an idea. We havn't had fleas in the house since we switched 3 years ago.


 
I'm with you.  We got rid of all carpet too.  I just thought it was funny.


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## save$ (Jul 24, 2012)

No fleas here for about 8 years.  Frontline used except when the ground is frozen. We hava a cat and two dogs.  I don't allow them around other animals.
We once had them.  Like being in hell.  bombed over and over, then Frontline, they were gone and stayed away.  I always go over the pets before I retrun home from the vet.  Run a fine tooth comb all over them. It is more kind to leave the pet home than it is to take them were they can get paracites.


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## firefighterjake (Jul 24, 2012)

And just when I thought we were gaining traction . . . wham . . . they're back with a vengeance.

I've finally decided to take some of your suggestions and wage an all out war on them . . . and like Brother Bart the place may end up on a Superfund site . . . IF I can find the good stuff. Turns out I'm not the only one having major issues . . . all the Tractor Supplies in the area have been cleaned out of the Enforcer insect growth inhibitor spray . . . I'm now waiting for the order to come in to pick up my instruments of death.

In the mean time my wife is getting very tired of vacuuming and doing laundry . . . I did pick up some 20 Mule Borax to sprinkle on the carpeting . . . and some Zodiac bug bombs that were pricey but it seems as though they may have some insect growth inhibitor in them since it claims to keep the buggers at bay for 7 months. I also hope to buy some more chemicals . ..  which is a bit strange to say since I am not a big fan of pesticides, herbicides . . . pretty much any -icides.

I did have a question for folks though . . . can fleas develop a tolerance to Frontline? My cats still have eggs and fleas that are on them . . . but I'm not sure if the eggs were laid before and are dead . . . or if the fleas are jumping on to the cats and then dying.


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## lukem (Jul 24, 2012)

Check with a local farm/feed store for chemicals...they tend to carry the good stuff.  I had them BAD last summer and it took a while to get them all killed.  Here's what I did:

First, wash the critters (dog).  Fleas can't survive a good soaking, so a bath will usually kill the adults.  After a couple days, (give the oils a chance to replenish on their skin) dope them up with some Frontline.

I bombed the house with some heavy duty foggers...can't remember the brand but I got them at the feed store.  Make sure the bomb contains an IGR. The IGR prevents adults from reproducing.  *After 30 days, bomb again...this is very important*.  Even if you think you whacked them all, bomb again after.  There's a certain stage in the flea lifecycle where they are pretty much impervious to any chemical, so you need to bomb again to whack the ones that hatch after the first bomb.

I mixed up a batch of Carbaryl (active ingredient in Sevin) and sprayed around the house, mostly in places where the dog frequents.  If you don't kill them outside, they  bring them right back in with them.


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## StihlHead (Jul 24, 2012)

I feel your pain... or rather, itch!

I am not sure if fleas have developed an immunity to Frontline. Supposedly some types of fleas have developed an immunity to the original Advantage formula, so they changed it to Advantage II. I also thought that Frontline was not working on my cat when the fleas hit us hard earlier this year, and that was when the vet said to use it every 3 weeks during that period of time. It become more lethal that way. My cat was not itching, and the second benefit to Frontline and Advantage (I use both, 6 months of one and then 6 months of the other) is that they control flea allergies in your pets. I asked the vet if they had something like that for humans, and he laughed.

Add some Borax to every load of laundry, and that will kill any fleas in your clothes. Clothes are flea magnets. Vacuume, wash, bomb, spray inside and out, spot treat the cats, and brush your cats. I use a fine metal brush desigend for small dogs and he loves it. It also gets the shedding fur out of his coat. At my ex's place we raised dogs (typically had 12-20 at any given time) and 100 head of sheep, and we had 4 cats. We had to go through the flea cycle there about every 4 months. We had no carpets and only tile and wood floors. She and I are both allergic to fleas... we got used to the cycles. We got it down to one day of spraying, bombing, laundry and spot treatments on the house pets. I only have to do the cycle once or twice a year here in spring. I am pulling up more carpeting and laying down more tile and hardwood flooring. I ripped up the old carpets and (the worse) padding under it and put down hardwood flooring in the living room and the master bedroom last winter, and that helped. There are only 2 bedrooms left with carpets, and they will go this winter.

Stay the course, do not give up, never surrender!


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## muncybob (Jul 25, 2012)

Timely thread for us as we now are doing our battle as a result of 2 stray kittens the Mrs. took in. The kittens stay in the barn but the dogs go out there to snoop around and I think that's how they got the fleas. I have been using Advantix on the dogs mainly with ticks in mind and had thought it would help with fleas but we found several on each dog. The kittens had been scratching a lot so along with some IGR spray I picked up at the vet's I also got some Advantage  for the cats. I am amazed that the day after the application to the kittens they have stopped scratching/biting completely. Maybe it's time to switch to Advantage for the dogs too?


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## basod (Jul 25, 2012)

Salt will work as well, sprinkled over the carpets.  Also place a deep bowl of water under a nightlight/wall outlet.  They'll spring to a drowning death, its also a good way to monitor for a continued infestation.


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## muncybob (Jul 25, 2012)

Wife is taking the dogs swimming in the creek...I hope any remaining on my puppies meet a watery death!


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## basod (Jul 25, 2012)

muncybob said:


> Wife is taking the dogs swimming in the creek...I hope any remaining on my puppies meet a watery death!


You'll likely see them gathering on their noses - running for high ground.  For puppies that aren't old enough for the chemical flea baths(they can affect development) use dawn dish soap.  Then follow it with Skin-so-soft, it'll remoisturize and keep moisquitos off them as well.  When the pups are too young for the topical (revolution,advantage multi, etc) your vet will probably apply it in a specific controlled dose for the size of the pup.  Mine charged ~28/month for applications to our new stray.  Until he finishes growing and I can buy it in bulk for his body weight, I'll part with money over my blood to fleas.


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## Sprinter (Jul 25, 2012)

woodsman23 said:


> dump the cats....


How to alienate half the population in three words


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## Sprinter (Jul 25, 2012)

woodsmaster said:


> Get rid of the carpet and put down hard surface flooring.


This is pretty good advice for many health-related reasons. I happen to prefer carpet over hardwood floors, but carpet does harbor all kinds of bad stuff. Vacuum, vacuum, vacuum, change the bag, then vacuum some more.  Then vacuum the furniture.


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## woodsman23 (Jul 26, 2012)

Sprinter said:


> How to alienate half the population in three words


 
Its not that i dislike cats but the facts are facts, cats carry fleas and when you let one it brings back 1 millon more...


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## Sprinter (Jul 26, 2012)

woodsman23 said:


> Its not that i dislike cats but the facts are facts, cats carry fleas and when you let one it brings back 1 millon more...


Okay, but the only time cats are going to have a flee problem is if they are outdoors, and outdoor cats are a bad idea all around (IMHO). Or, if the house is already infested. Then, of course, cats will pick them up, along with you, the wife, the kids, the dog, pet skunk and whatever other warm blooded creatures you may have. We usually have both cats and dogs (not in large quantities), and whenever we have had a flee problem in the past, the cat is the least of the problem. Having said all that, I used to let my cats out all the time and they did pick up flees. But for the past 15 or more years, our cats have been strictly indoors, the dog gets Advantage, and we haven't had a flee problem for at least that long. Geez, I hope I didn't jinx us...


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## woodsmaster (Jul 26, 2012)

Sprinter said:


> This is pretty good advice for many health-related reasons. I happen to prefer carpet over hardwood floors, but carpet does harbor all kinds of bad stuff. Vacuum, vacuum, vacuum, change the bag, then vacuum some more. Then vacuum the furniture.


 
 we also switched from fabric to leather furniture. It's much easier to keep every thing clean and fresh now.


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## joel95ex (Jul 26, 2012)

Trust me, here in TX we don't get the hard freezes so if you develop a problem down here, it gets outa control fast.   Before we moved to our new house---which btw I did pull out all of the carpet, we had a bad flea problem....came out of nowhere.  As I said before the growth inhibitor is the key....the pesticides just offer fast knock down of the adults. the IGR prevents the larvae and eggs from developing into adults who bite.  the pesticides will not touch the eggs or larvae.  as for the spot treatments, they are very effective, but slower acting as many are fipronil which is same as termidor----great stuff but not as fast.  treat the animals with advantage, frontline, or advantix, and get demon wp, and an insect growth inhibitor and you will have fast results----from experience, the fleas were jumping on my ankles and about 3 or 4 days later after the demon and IGR (growth regulator) they were gone. BTW you only need a very light application (fine mist) over carpets.   bottom line is that ANY effective flea product for your house/carpets will contain an insect growth regulator and the trade name is Nylar.


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## firefighterjake (Aug 30, 2012)

Follow up . . . the flea problem is under control . . . and has been for a few weeks now.

The solution was pretty simple . . . and it was a case of a time when I should have listened to my wife.

Our vet suggested Frontline and we had dosed our cats with hardly any positive effects . . . and the vet said to simply do it again and so I did . . . with the same results . . . not much changed despite the Frontline and frequent vacuuming and laundry.

I finally broke down and bought some Advantage II at a pet store . . . and within hours fleas were dropping off the cats . . . and in days there was a notable decrease in the buggers.

It has been nearly three weeks since then and in a few days the cats will be getting another dose . . . and once again it will be Advantage II.


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## StihlHead (Aug 30, 2012)

Yah, rotating the spot flea control treatment seems to help. You need to keep up the pressure on those little blood suckers, or else... well, you know.

There are cheaper places to get this stuff online as well. PM me if interested.


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