# Heat retention insulation question



## Wisneaky (Sep 28, 2015)

I'm hoping someone can explain why my house retains heat so much. I have an older house built in the 50s. We completely remodeled last summer. New windows, new roof, new insulation in walls, new doors. Everything is practically new except kitchen. R13 insulation in walls, poly vapor barrier on exterior walls. Blown insulation in roof to r38 white steel roof, white vinyl siding. My house retains heat like crazy now. Like today it is 64 outside and 74 degrees inside. Someone please explain to me why it is so warm in here.


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## Former Farmer (Sep 28, 2015)

No more drafts to remove the heat generated by all of the appliances and lighting.


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## Wisneaky (Sep 28, 2015)

Former Farmer said:


> No more drafts to remove the heat generated by all of the appliances and lighting.


do you think I should install roof vents?


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## Former Farmer (Sep 28, 2015)

How is your attic vented now?  Soffit vents, ridge vent, gable end vents, etc?


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## Wisneaky (Sep 28, 2015)

Former Farmer said:


> How is your attic vented now?  Soffit vents, ridge vent, gable end vents, etc?


Soffit and ridge vent. No gable vents. The roof is completely new also including new trusses.


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## Former Farmer (Sep 28, 2015)

You shouldn't need any additional venting for your attic if it was all installed properly.   Are you concerned that the attic is holding too much heat and this is part of the reason for the warmer house?


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## Wisneaky (Sep 28, 2015)

Former Farmer said:


> You shouldn't need any additional venting for your attic if it was all installed properly.   Are you concerned that the attic is holding too much heat and this is part of the reason for the warmer house?


Honestly I don't know. I doubt it's the roof. I'm assuming because of all the extra insulation and vapor barrier. I wouldn't say its a bad thing during the winter because it will be easier to heat, but I constantly have to have the ac on when its hot out. I wonder if there is a way to vent out the extra heat when not needed.


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## Wisneaky (Sep 28, 2015)

I specifically went with a white roof and siding to keep my house cool in the summer to help save money and with the extra heat retention it's a flop.


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## Former Farmer (Sep 28, 2015)

What type of lighting do you use?  Incandescent, CFL, LED?  Do you leave you lights on a lot?  You would be surprised at how much heat are generated by incandescent lights.


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## Wisneaky (Sep 28, 2015)

Former Farmer said:


> What type of lighting do you use?  Incandescent, CFL, LED?  Do you leave you lights on a lot?  You would be surprised at how much heat are generated by incandescent lights.


Most of my house is leds, except in my living room area there is a drop ceiling with three 2'x2' cfl light fixtures. I know they generate a lot of heat and I try to keep them off.


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## Former Farmer (Sep 28, 2015)

I think that I would wait and see what the winter brings.  If you have problems with a lot of condensation on your windows, then you may want to look into a air to air exchanger to take out air from your house and bring in fresh air.  The exchanger transfers some of the heat/cool from the inside air to the outside air being brought into the house.


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## Wisneaky (Sep 28, 2015)

Former Farmer said:


> I think that I would wait and see what the winter brings.  If you have problems with a lot of condensation on your windows, then you may want to look into a air to air exchanger to take out air from your house and bring in fresh air.  The exchanger transfers some of the heat/cool from the inside air to the outside air being brought into the house.


Sounds good. Thank you


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## brenndatomu (Sep 28, 2015)

What's wrong, A/C not gettin the place cold enough to fire up that new wood burner yet?!


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## Wisneaky (Sep 28, 2015)

brenndatomu said:


> What's wrong, A/C not gettin the place cold enough to fire up that new wood burner yet?!


Well I was hoping to get a fire going tonight, but with it being so warm in here I was contemplating turning the ac on. Might have to have them both running at the same time.


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## Wisneaky (Sep 28, 2015)

59 degrees outside now and still 74 degrees inside. With the way this is going I may not be burning at all this season.


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## begreen (Sep 28, 2015)

What is the solar gain through windows like? How much southern and western exposure does the house have vs tree shading?


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## brenndatomu (Sep 28, 2015)

Wisneaky said:


> Well I was hoping to get a fire going tonight, but with it being so warm in here I was contemplating turning the ac on. Might have to have them both running at the same time.


Ha! Yeah I did that inadvertently when I fired up the lil fireplace stove during a cold snap a couple weeks ago. In threw in some bark and a piece of pine just to take the chill off. Went to bed with only a small fire left, decide to get up and double check everything since this was the first fire of the season and all...realized the A/C had just kicked on, oops, gotta turn that off now!


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## Wisneaky (Sep 28, 2015)

begreen said:


> What is the solar gain through windows like? How much southern and western exposure does the house have vs tree shading?


There isn't a lot of windows, but there is practically no tree shade though.


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## Wisneaky (Sep 28, 2015)

I remembered though we did some major air leak sealing. There is a crawl space that runs under part of the house and there was bad air flow. We put poly down and spray foamed the entire walls. Also in the basement area we sealed some air leaks. I think we are going to have to put a fresh air intake down there now before we fire up the wood furnace.


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## woodgeek (Sep 28, 2015)

I had that problem once....its was the waste heat from my oil boiler running my DHW. 100 gallons of fuel oil over the summer needed a good bit of AC. Got rid of the boiler, and then the problem went away.

Now the neighbor is running his central AC when it is 65°F out, but not me.


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## brenndatomu (Sep 28, 2015)

Wisneaky said:


> I think we are going to have to put a fresh air intake down there now before we fire up the wood furnace


Sounds like a good idea. The simplest air intake I have hard of was a dryer vent installed backwards, and then just a screened hood on the outside. I did one when I installed the Yukon (they require it) I used 6" "tinfoil" flex duct to run the intake tube close to the baro on my stovepipe. Some people just run a tube into a bucket for a "trap"


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## Wisneaky (Sep 28, 2015)

woodgeek said:


> I had that problem once....its was the waste heat from my oil boiler running my DHW. 100 gallons of fuel oil over the summer needed a good bit of AC. Got rid of the boiler, and then the problem went away.
> 
> Now the neighbor is running his central AC when it is 65°F out, but not me.


I don't think it's my water heater. It's an LP power vent, but the basement is never hot.


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## Wisneaky (Sep 28, 2015)

brenndatomu said:


> Sounds like a good idea. The simplest air intake I have hard of was a dryer vent installed backwards, and then just a screened hood on the outside. I did one when I installed the Yukon (they require it) I used 6" "tinfoil" flex duct to run the intake tube close to the baro on my stovepipe. Some people just run a tube into a bucket for a "trap"


Why did you run it to the baro? Shouldn't it go close to the air intake on the front of the furnace?


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## brenndatomu (Sep 28, 2015)

Wisneaky said:


> My house retains heat like crazy now. Like today it is 64 outside and 74 degrees inside. Someone please explain to me why it is so warm in here.


Anybody baking/cooking much? That makes huge difference in the summertime for us.
I know some people who purposely drag their feet this time of the year on lighting a fire so that their wives will start baking...


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## brenndatomu (Sep 28, 2015)

Wisneaky said:


> Why did you run it to the baro? Shouldn't it go close to the air intake on the front of the furnace?


Massive CFMs up the baro compared to the intake...


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## Wisneaky (Sep 28, 2015)

brenndatomu said:


> Anybody baking/cooking much? That makes huge difference in the summertime for us.
> I know some people who purposely drag their feet this time of the year on lighting a fire so that their wives will start baking...


It's actually much warmer when the oven is going. We have a fan in the window next to the stove so we can blow it out when it's on.


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## Wisneaky (Sep 28, 2015)

brenndatomu said:


> Massive CFMs up the baro compared to the intake...


Interesting never heard of doing it that way.


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## Wisneaky (Sep 28, 2015)

Project for tomorrow is to get a fresh air intake put in down there.


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## brenndatomu (Sep 28, 2015)

Wisneaky said:


> It's actually much warmer when the oven is going. We have a fan in the window next to the stove so we can blow it out when it's on.


We have a power vent to the outside above the oven that gets run when we bake during "A/C time", usually crack the kitchen window to give the fan some makeup air instead of drawing air down the chimney....stinky


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## Wisneaky (Sep 28, 2015)

brenndatomu said:


> We have a power vent to the outside above the oven that gets run when we bake during "A/C time", usually crack the kitchen window to give the fan some makeup air instead of drawing air down the chimney....stinky


We actually don't have a range vent hood. I know we should, but it's on the list for when we do the kitchen remodel.


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## begreen (Sep 29, 2015)

We don't turn the oven on at all during very hot weather. That's time for grilling on the barbie.


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## jharkin (Sep 29, 2015)

All that insulation you added is doing what its designed to do.

Close the shades on south facing windows during the day to reduce solar gain and *open some windows.* Preferably on both the upper and lower levels to let convection currents draw some heat out.  Or use window fans.


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## Circus (Sep 29, 2015)

Wisneaky said:


> My house retains heat like crazy now. Like today it is 64 outside and 74 degrees inside. Someone please explain to me why


 
Your not fooling anyone. Your bragging not complaining. Everything is as it should be. Besides it was warm outside before the cold front came through yesterday afternoon.


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## Wisneaky (Sep 29, 2015)

Circus said:


> Your not fooling anyone. Your bragging not complaining. Everything is as it should be. Besides it was warm outside before the cold front came through yesterday afternoon.


Seriously wasn't bragging. I didn't know it would retain the inside heat so much by adding insulation. It is probably a good thing now that I had time to actually think about it. Now I think I can get away with waiting a little longer before I fire up the furnace.


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## begreen (Sep 29, 2015)

Sounds like an attic, whole house ventilation fan might help. We had one in the house I grew up in, no AC. It really helped pull cool night air into the house and kept heat from building up in the attic.


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## Wisneaky (Sep 29, 2015)

begreen said:


> Sounds like an attic, whole house ventilation fan might help. We had one in the house I grew up in, no AC. It really helped pull cool night air into the house and kept heat from building up in the attic.


I was wondering how they work. I think next spring I should install one. Anyone use one of those solar powered ones? I live north so I wonder if it would get enough sunlight to operate.


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## begreen (Sep 29, 2015)

A whole house fan is larger than the solar fan. It not only evacuates the attic, but the whole house through a hallway ceiling grille. This gets sealed with an insulated cover in winter.


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## Circus (Sep 29, 2015)

begreen said:


> A whole house fan is larger than the solar fan. It not only evacuates the attic, but the whole house through a hallway ceiling grille. This gets sealed with an insulated cover in winter.


They're huge and run slow (quietly). Normally timed to run in the in the wee hours. Windows open.


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## Wisneaky (Sep 29, 2015)

Thanks that's a good idea.


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## Oregon aloha (Sep 30, 2015)

The issue could be your ridge vents. When the air outside starts to cool the hot air gets locked in your attic. 
As the warms up air is pulled up. As soon as the starts to cool this heavier air traps the hot air in. Leaving your house hot. That's why roof vents are placed below the ridge to trap hot air above the vent to keep the air moving up. 
You might try gable power vents to pull that hot air out.


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## woodgeek (Sep 30, 2015)

to the OP:  Enjoy your heat retaining house.  

If your attic is well insulated AND properly airsealed, the temp in your attic will not significantly affect the temp in your house AND you will have no need for active ventilation up there....passive venting will be fine.

To see if its well airsealed, use redneck thermography....look at it after a few light snows during near freezing weather.  If the roof holds snow well, without any blotchy melting, lines where your joists are, better than your neighbors, etc, you win.  If not, then you have a well insulated but poorly airsealed attic, and can worry about mold up there, ice-dams, etc.


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## Circus (Sep 30, 2015)

Circus said:


>


 


Wisneaky said:


> Thanks that's a good idea.


 
Not so useful here in Wisconsin where the weather isn't hot very often. To much heat loss.


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## Wisneaky (Sep 30, 2015)

Circus said:


> Not so useful here in Wisconsin where the weather isn't hot very often. I wouldn't install one. To much heat loss.


I like the cold. Over 75 degrees outside is too hot for me. Yes I'm one who uses my grill all winter long.


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## woodgeek (Sep 30, 2015)

The bigger issue with the 'whole house fans' is your local climate.  On the east coast, the temp at night often drops to the dewpoint of the air, so the air you are pulling in is 100% relative humidity.  You end up cooling your house, but making it uncomfortably humid, with the potential of dust mite and mold blooms that exacerbate allergies, asthma, etc.  

In a hot dry climate they might make sense, but around where I am, the number of days per year they are useful can be counted on your fingers...and on those days I just open my screen doors instead.


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## laynes69 (Sep 30, 2015)

Wisneaky, did you add insulation after you purchased your new woodfurnace?


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## begreen (Sep 30, 2015)

Circus said:


> Not so useful here in Wisconsin where the weather isn't hot very often. To much heat loss.


There shouldn't be if the ceiling vent is well insulated and sealed.


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## begreen (Sep 30, 2015)

woodgeek said:


> The bigger issue with the 'whole house fans' is your local climate.  On the east coast, the temp at night often drops to the dewpoint of the air, so the air you are pulling in is 100% relative humidity.  You end up cooling your house, but making it uncomfortably humid, with the potential of dust mite and mold blooms that exacerbate allergies, asthma, etc.
> 
> In a hot dry climate they might make sense, but around where I am, the number of days per year they are useful can be counted on your fingers...and on those days I just open my screen doors instead.


I grew up in NYS where the whole house fan ran a lot. For us there was no issue with mold, dust mites, and no asthma. Bringing in the night air to cool the house made a very pleasant  difference. We never did have AC in spite of my dad owning a mechanical contracting company.


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## Wisneaky (Sep 30, 2015)

laynes69 said:


> Wisneaky, did you add insulation after you purchased your new woodfurnace?


I think the spray foam came after the new furnace.


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## laynes69 (Sep 30, 2015)

Wisneaky said:


> I think the spray foam came after the new furnace.


Just wondered, if so you will be building small hot fires. Otherwise you might roast with the new insulation. It's amazing what it does for a home. It dropped to the mid 50's last night and now in the upper 50's, damp and windy. It's been 75 in here all day.


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## maverick06 (Oct 1, 2015)

The whole house fan is a personal choice. I have one and use it all the time. It cools the house so well, so fast. Sometimes it does get humid in the summer, when it runs overnight. However when the outside temp starts to warm up in the morning, I shut the fan off, and run the AC for about 15 min to suck the humidity out, and then its great for the day. My house had a similar issue. For much of the summer, even when it dropped into the 60's at night, my house would still sit at my AC setpoint (about 78f), never cooling off. Now with the fan I can get rid of that heat. I figured out the power on my system too. an hour of AC use is about 14 hours of whole house fan use. (The whole house fan, on high, uses half the power of just the HVAC blower).

If you like having the windows open, you would love the fan. If you don't like having the windows open, don't bother.


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## Seasoned Oak (Oct 24, 2015)

My house is poorly insulated but retains much more heat. Its not uncommon to be 30 or more degrees warmer inside than out without any other heat sourses .The main reason is a south facing enclosed solar porch that generates a tremendous amount of heat. Its easily controlled with a whole house fan if it gets too hot but i like to save it for overnight when the sunporch stops generating heat. ANy avarage house will be 10 or more degrees warmer than outside temps due to Body heat and appliances like your refrigerator and dryer if its vented internally and cookin stove.


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## semipro (Oct 26, 2015)

woodgeek said:


> use *redneck thermography*....look at it after a few light snows during near freezing weather.


Too funny.  Yeah, I've done that. 
You could go really high tech and take some photos.


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## Circus (Oct 28, 2015)

*Heat retention insulation question*
started by Wisneaky, Sep 28, 2015.

Well it's been a month. Have you needed any heat yet? For the record, insulation doesn't retain heat, a thermal mass does that.


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## Highbeam (Oct 30, 2015)

Circus said:


> For the record, insulation doesn't retain heat, a thermal mass does that.



Well, the insulation slows the transfer of heat which keeps it in the home or "retains" it. The insulation itself doesn't hold the heat. It's like a pond liner that retains the water. Whatever, not important.

I'm curious too. My old house has been getting progressively more air sealed and insulated as I make improvements. We have no trees and notice that the house does not heat up in the summer from sun and also that it is quick to warm up in the winter after it cools. We are noticing the opposite problem of the OP, it stays cool.

We are big ventilation people, I run the bath fan for a good hour after showers. I hate mold and humidity since I don't like the idea of dust mites.


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## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Jan 11, 2016)

woodgeek said:


> to the OP:  Enjoy your heat retaining house.
> 
> If your attic is well insulated AND properly airsealed, the temp in your attic will not significantly affect the temp in your house AND you will have no need for active ventilation up there....passive venting will be fine.
> 
> To see if its well airsealed, use redneck thermography....look at it after a few light snows during near freezing weather.  If the roof holds snow well, without any blotchy melting, lines where your joists are, better than your neighbors, etc, you win.  If not, then you have a well insulated but poorly airsealed attic, and can worry about mold up there, ice-dams, etc.


Woodgeek- How would I airseal my attic?  The attic floor is insulated with blown in fiberglass, with wood planks over the floor joists


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## peirhead (Jan 12, 2016)

This is a great video from this old house on a whole house fan installation
http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/video/0,,20353533,00.html


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## semipro (Jan 14, 2016)

ED 3000 said:


> How would I airseal my attic?


http://www.finehomebuilding.com/pages/how-to-air-seal-attic/

As mentioned already by me and others, packed-cellulose under the attic floor will help with both air-sealing and insulation.   https://bct.eco.umass.edu/publications/by-title/cellulose-insulation-a-smart-choice/
You can do a fair job yourself with materials and equipment from the big box stores.


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## velvetfoot (Jan 14, 2016)

Wisneaky said:


> I'm hoping someone can explain why my house retains heat so much. I have an older house built in the 50s. We completely remodeled last summer. New windows, new roof, new insulation in walls, new doors. Everything is practically new except kitchen. R13 insulation in walls, poly vapor barrier on exterior walls. Blown insulation in roof to r38 white steel roof, white vinyl siding. My house retains heat like crazy now. Like today it is 64 outside and 74 degrees inside. Someone please explain to me why it is so warm in here.



Still having the same problem?


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## TonyVideo (Feb 29, 2016)

This thread is hard to read as I sit in my 1880's home. I would love to have this problem.


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## Seasoned Oak (Feb 29, 2016)

Whole house fans are a must ,i dont see them in many home ,but i would never be without one. Whats the point of running AC compressors all night when the outside temps are in the 60s but the house is in the 80s from a hot day.


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## woodgeek (Feb 29, 2016)

Whole house fans have limited utility in many climates, as out East, due to high summer humidity.

On the few days a year that I can passively cool my house without letting a bunch of humidity in, I just open a few screen doors and get a cross breeze.


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## Seasoned Oak (Feb 29, 2016)

woodgeek said:


> Whole house fans have limited utility in many climates, as out East, due to high summer humidity.
> On the few days a year that I can passively cool my house without letting a bunch of humidity in, I just open a few screen doors and get a cross breeze.


The only place i get too much humidity in summer is in the basement. Also sometimes my passive solar room overheats the house in spring and fall and i need it.


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## woodgeek (Feb 29, 2016)

It is possible that the humidity in your basement is getting pulled in by your whole house fan...its a cold trap?


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## Seasoned Oak (Mar 1, 2016)

woodgeek said:


> It is possible that the humidity in your basement is getting pulled in by your whole house fan...its a cold trap?


Humidity is the same wether the house fan is going or not. Humidity is not too bad here in summer but the basement is all underground so i get a bit of ground moisture. Basement does not grow mold but my boiler rusts a little if i dont run the dehumidifier. I think a Geospring WH would do the trick here, i may look into that.


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