# I just bought a cord of wood, but it's damp and hisses when I burn it. What can I do?



## NewtownPA (Feb 15, 2007)

Hi, I have another question. I am relatively new to the whole wood stove thing, but I just recently bought a cord of wood. When I burn it I hear hissing sounds and see bubbles of moisture at the ends of the wood. This wood was sold to me as "seasoned hardwood".

Is there anything I can do about all that wood that's so damp internally?

Do most of you order your wood in the spring and keep it covered all summer and fall in order to keep it dry for the following winter?


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## Eric Johnson (Feb 15, 2007)

There's not a whole lot you can do at this point, unfortunately. "Seasoned" is basically a meaningless marketing term in the firewood business.

The best way to dry wood is to cut it and stack it for at least a year. Longer can be better, depending on the conditions.

Some of the chunks might be drier than others. You can usually tell by their weight. It's noticable when you lift a dry piece and a wet one of roughly the same size. Some species, such as white ash, burn green better than others.

If you don't have a catalytic combustor in your stove, then you can burn green wood and get some heat out of it, but you have to watch your chimney very carefully. Green wood produces excessive creosote under most conditions, although if you can get your stove running hot, you should have less.

Finally, you might try stacking the wood in your basement or other indoor space, if possible. The low humidity in your house in the winter will dry the wood out relatively quickly. By the end of this heating season, in other words, you should be burning fairly dry wood. Plus, you'll get the benefit of the moisture in your house. Similarly, make a small stack of wood by the stove overnight and you'll have wood that's at least a little drier for loading the stove in the morning.

Burning green wood is a rite of passage for most wood burners, especially the first season or two. Once you realize the value of dry wood, you make sure you have it. I've burned more than my share of green wood, and the only good that came of it was that I now appreciate how much better dry wood really is.

Good luck & don't get discouraged. Consider it paying your dues.


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## mikedengineer (Feb 15, 2007)

My friend had this same problem. He called the firewood guy and complained. The firewood guy brought out some new dry firewood and he got to keep the wet stuff (to dry for next season). I'd complain to the guy you bought it from. Make it sound like you plan on getting a bunch next time and know other people looking for firewood. If he a decent person he should make good.

-Mike


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## NewtownPA (Feb 15, 2007)

Thanks for your advice and tips. I had a small pile (like maybe 10 -12 logs) in our living room; well my wife found a huge white worm and she wasn't too pleased about that! 

Question: You say "green" wood. Is wood that has been cut for over a year, but soaking wet, still called "green"?





			
				Eric Johnson said:
			
		

> There's not a whole lot you can do at this point, unfortunately. "Seasoned" is basically a meaningless marketing term in the firewood business.
> 
> The best way to dry wood is to cut it and stack it for at least a year. Longer can be better, depending on the conditions.
> 
> ...


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## NewtownPA (Feb 15, 2007)

The guy said his usual rate is $185 / cord, but he sold this to me for $165 / cord. I think he knew it wasn't so dry, so that's why he gave me a price break.




			
				mikedengineer said:
			
		

> My friend had this same problem. He called the firewood guy and complained. The firewood guy brought out some new dry firewood and he got to keep the wet stuff (to dry for next season). I'd complain to the guy you bought it from. Make it sound like you plan on getting a bunch next time and know other people looking for firewood. If he a decent person he should make good.
> 
> -Mike


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## TMonter (Feb 15, 2007)

What kind of wood was it and how did he claim he stored it for the last year? Also if you were burning the pieces that were on the top of the pile and they had been rained on that could be some of the reason. Remember some wood types are hydroscopic and will soak up moisture after being cut, particularly if left out in the rain.


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## Corie (Feb 15, 2007)

Green wood is wood that has not been seasoned.


Wet wood is wood that is seasoned, but has been left in the soaking rain for a while and picked up a little moisture.


Usually a few days, or a week of nice dry sunlight is enough to get the wateer absorbed by the wood out, whereas green wood can take anywhere from 6 monthes to 2 years to become seasoned.

It all depends on the way things are stacked though.  Wood can be cut for a years but left unsplit in a huge pile and not seasoned too much.  Its all about airflow.


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## NewtownPA (Feb 15, 2007)

I don't remember all the names but I do remember he said: Ash, Oak, Locust, Poplar and Birch. I didn't ask how he stored it, but he said that it was "seasoned" and it does look like it has been cut some time ago - but I'm just a beginner. 




			
				TMonter said:
			
		

> What kind of wood was it and how did he claim he stored it for the last year? Also if you were burning the pieces that were on the top of the pile and they had been rained on that could be some of the reason. Remember some wood types are hydroscopic and will soak up moisture after being cut, particularly if left out in the rain.


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## NewtownPA (Feb 15, 2007)

Do you guys buy your wood months in advance and keep it all summer under a tarp or something? I'm thinking I need to do that. I may buy another cord or two in April and keep it all summer - would that make for a nice dry pile come next winter?


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## NewtownPA (Feb 15, 2007)

Corie said:
			
		

> Green wood is wood that has not been seasoned.
> 
> 
> Wet wood is wood that is seasoned



Does "seasoned" mean wood that has been cut and split for at least a year? Or is there something else that they do to it to "season" it?


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## Jay H (Feb 15, 2007)

I'm a first time stove user and also a first time homeowner. This is my first winter heating my house with only my wood stove. Had the stove installed in late June, bought wood in early July, started to burn in late november here in Northern NJ (paid $155/cord). Fortunately, I had a good supplier but I was prepared to wait one season if I got skunky wood.  It's kind of a pot luck here and I wasn't even on hearth.com before I got my stove so I just did some internet sleauthing, found a supplier near me and called.

Jay

p.s. I thought seasoned means salt and pepper, maybe some cinnamon :D


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## MountainStoveGuy (Feb 15, 2007)

i think seasoned means it was sprinkeld with alittle tony's 
seriously, it simply means dry, and ready to burn.


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## Roospike (Feb 15, 2007)

Cut "Green" wood can and will show some cracks on the end in just a few months , If its real heavy thats a good sign its still green. 

The normal "jive" of seasoned wood from a firewood dealer is going to be from 2 hours ago and the logs were down for a few months to 3-6 months. The average i have found firewood dealers seasoned wood it to be 3 months.

Minimum seasoned wood is 9 months cut and stacked .........
I normally go 2 years for seasoned wood ( 24 months ) and longer.

Hard wood like oak and Locust needs two years to season.

Your best best is if your buying firewood , call firewood dealers now and get there best price for green wood that you will season yourself , your not going to get proper seasoned wood from a firewood dealer so you might as well buy it bulk at green and do it yourself.


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## slowzuki (Feb 15, 2007)

I'm burning a fair bit of wet wood since I have very little wood this year.  I mix it in with dry wood and only use it when a good bed of ashes is in the stove.  Don't bother trying to choke it down to make the burn last.  Not a good idea with wet wood.  If done correctly you can light the stove on dry wood and run on wet wood the rest of the day keeping the temps very high.  The moisture will be driven off and it will burn quite clean.  Storing split wood in by the stove a few days helps your houses humidity and drys the wood rapidly.  Rounds don't seem to benefit as much.  Burning wet rounds is nearly impossible in a woodstove.


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## Eric Johnson (Feb 15, 2007)

I'm going to side with Roo and disagree with MSG (who must be dreaming). "Seasoned" means it's been cut and split and stacked for a day or more. If the wood were dry, they would call it "dry." If it's not dry, they call it "seasoned."

Again, to concur with Roo, you won't get a better return on most investments than you will with firewood. Buy it green in the spring, stack it in a sunny spot in your yard (uncovered), and watch it begin to dry. In the early fall (preferably after a dry spell) cover the top until you burn it. Or better yet, get it under a roof of some kind. It should be ready to burn by winter. Compare the price of green wood vs. "dry" or "seasoned" wood to see what I'm talking about when it comes to return on investment.

My guess is that you'll be cutting your own wood (and thus controlling your fuel supply) within a year.


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## NewtownPA (Feb 15, 2007)

Roospike said:
			
		

> get there best price for green wood that you will season yourself



Thanks for the advice. Suppose they are charging $175 / cord of "seasoned" wood, how much would it typically cost for "green" wood? (how much of a savings should I be looking for?)


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## NewtownPA (Feb 15, 2007)

Eric Johnson said:
			
		

> My guess is that you'll be cutting your own wood (and thus controlling your fuel supply) within a year.



haahahha Well my brother was visiting me over New Year's and we went out to the woods and chopped up a couple of birch trees. We used an axe - it was A LOT of work, but it was all done for the fun of it - with the added plus that I got a bit of firewood out of too.

It's just much less work to give the guy a call and have him dump it in my driveway - but chopping your own is a blast!


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## Roospike (Feb 15, 2007)

I've seen cost breaks for "green" wood from $25. a cord to $75. a cord and it helps to buy in bulk when making the deal. 

Ask for the price break on green wood so you can season it yourself ( tell them your going to do it your self ) ...........then...............ask for a bigger price break for buying 4 or more cords at a time.

I dont cut firewood to sell but if i did and some one asked for green unseasoned wood and wanted 4-6 + cords then thats easy money for the firewood dealer as now they dont have to stack and store the wood and its a done deal before the wood is even cut in some cases. They could cut the wood , split and take it right to your house.

If you get $50. off a cord buying green and in bulk thats like 1 cord free to every 3 cords plus you know its seasoned right. 

There might also be a price break for unslpit wood if your wanting to split it yourself.

In whatever case everybody wins.



			
				NewtownPA said:
			
		

> Roospike said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## TMonter (Feb 15, 2007)

Does most everyone here who burns hardwoods cut actual green timber? Where I'm at, I usually burn stuff I cut same year, but I get standing dead or dead-fall timber that has fallen so it's off the ground. Never had a problem and sample wise the moisture in my wood is typically 18-22%. Maybe softwoods are just a lot easier to dry out.


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## Roospike (Feb 15, 2007)

Yes , soft wood is easier to dry and less time to do so. Its less dense.

All my wood is standing live green trees when i cut. I've cut many that were on there way out with holes in the middle , ants and other issues but still standing and green. Normally not a lot of good fallen hard wood round' des parts.

The big soft wood of Nebraska , Kansas and such is "cotton wood" and we let it be. not worth wasting time on soft wood and not a lot of pine around here.


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## Eric Johnson (Feb 15, 2007)

Some of it depends on the species and some on the drying conditions. With most hardwoods like maple, oak, ash, hickory, cherry, beech, etc., you can cut them in the spring and burn them the following winter. Some species though, like white oak and yellow birch, take more time to adequately dry. If you live in a drier climate, or if it's a hot, dry summer, then your wood will dry more quickly than if it's raining all the time.

Roo and I like to get far enough ahead on our wood so that we're always burning stuff that's dried for at least two years. That way you pretty much know where you stand, regardlesss of what the weather does. But storage and handling start to become major issues when you do it that way.


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## sgcsalsero (Feb 15, 2007)

Newtown, consider buying a wood moisture meter, if you do a search on posts you'll find some good info, I copied out below
from one of the forum experts. . .  .perhaps with a little scientific data you can 'convince' your supply guy to do the right thing, moisture meter at Harbor Freight should be $20

Good luck, SGC

p.s. off topic but is Newton/Yardley still an insane real estate market



			
				Mo Heat said:
			
		

> Reading and my experience both tell me that below 20% is good, 15% is even better. Most wood dries to 20 - 25% fairly quickly (< 1 yr) as the water between and inside the wood cells is eliminated. The remaining water is "bound" within the cell walls themselves (a constituent of the wall) and is much slower to exit.
> 
> I've got one of those HF meters. I doubt they are well calibrated so I did a control test first thing using a fresh split for a baseline and sanity check. This device is also not exactly heavy duty so I use it as follows to maximize life expectancy.
> 
> ...


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## carpniels (Feb 15, 2007)

THis is what Roo said: 

I dont cut firewood to sell but if i did and some one asked for green unseasoned wood and wanted 4-6 + cords then thats easy money for the firewood dealer as now they dont have to stack and store the wood and its a done deal before the wood is even cut in some cases. They could cut the wood , split and take it right to your house.

I love the guy (after all he has a PE SUmmit in WH red, but I disagree with this: easy money for the firewood dealer as now they dont have to stack and store the wood.

I have never seen or heard of any firewood dealerthat stacks wood. WAY too much work. You are lucky if it has been laying for more than a few months in a pile on a dry piece of land. Most of the time, it was in a waterhole and often let than a month after cutting. Kiss the firewood dealers feet if he stacked it for a year off the ground. I don't know a single one that does that.

Carpniels

NewPA,

I would call the nearest stove dealer and ask them for references for good firewood dealers. The timing right now is terrible, but it is worth a call. Also ask around for firewood dealers at your local chainsaw store.  They really know who is good or bad. best bet is to get a chainsaw instead of an axe to cut wood. Mauls are for splitting, chain saws are for cutting. Then get some pellets stack the split wood on there, cover with a tarp, and before you know it, you will be like all of us. Burning your own cut wood where everything is controlled by you


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## Roospike (Feb 15, 2007)

What!? , Your telling me that not all firewood dealers store wood like this ?  ;-)


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## TMonter (Feb 15, 2007)

How much hardwood do you burn in a typical season Roo?


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## Roospike (Feb 15, 2007)

TMonter said:
			
		

> How much hardwood do you burn in a typical season Roo?



3.75 - 4.25 cords.  Oak , Elm , Hedge , Hickory , Locust , Mulberry , Hackberry .


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## sgcsalsero (Feb 15, 2007)

Roospike said:
			
		

> What!? , Your telling me that not all firewood dealers store wood like this ?  ;-)



Talk about wood envy


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## Roospike (Feb 15, 2007)

2


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## sgcsalsero (Feb 15, 2007)

Roospike said:
			
		

> What!? , Your telling me that not all firewood dealers store wood like this ?  ;-)


.. . too much shrinkwrap to get thru though, I'd go postal if someone delivered a load that way


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## TMonter (Feb 15, 2007)

I'll take a couple snapshots of my remaining wood pile tonight. All I have left at this point in the season is Red Fir but I do have quite a bit left. I'm thinking this year I may have 1-1.5 Cord Left.


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## Highbeam (Feb 15, 2007)

I have noticed a sudden drop in the price of "dry/seasoned" wood here in the NW.  The guys that sell the stuff are quickly coming to the point where the green wood is worth very little less than seasoned wood since warm weather is fast approaching and whatever the customer buys will be the same dryness come fall.

I have been cutting green trees blown down in this winter's storms for next year's burning. About one cord per weekend is the right amount of work without getting worn out. So far I've just been bringing home western red cedar and red alder. It's green, clean, and split the way I want it and will be dried to perfection by fall. 

My little HF moisture meter tells me the cedar is at 34% moisture and the wood I'm burning reads out at 20% on average. I really hope I can get this green wood down into the mid teens by fall since the 20-22% stuff isn't much fun to burn as it takes more fiddling. If I needed to buy more dry wood for this year you can bet I would be poking it with the meter. It's like driving without a speedometer to burn wood without a moisture meter after you've gotten used to it.


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## Roospike (Feb 15, 2007)

4


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## Hogwildz (Feb 15, 2007)

Newtown, that seems a lil steep for mixed wood. I used to deliver firewood in that area around Richboro. Of course that was back in the mid to late 80's. It was 125 a cord then for mostly oak with some maple mixed in. Another indicator of drier wood is the color. The wood darkens as it dries. It should be almost brown or grayish looking.
If you have a hard time finding a decent delaer, I can call a landscaper friend of mine that lives in Southampton, he may have, or know a decent person that has decent wood. Down that area theres not many areas to harvest your own. You might be able to get some from the state parks, Tyler, Core Creek et. You'd have to call the park commision and ask. They might not do it down there.


Is Goodnoes still open? Remember going there for icecream all the time.


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## sstanis (Feb 15, 2007)

Surprised that an ole' tip that had been posted on this board b4 was not mentioned.   If ya have an old microwave sitting in the basement or taking up room in a attic, as long as it still works, zap the wood.  It really does work.  scout through your pile, pull off the ones that have the dark brown ends with checks those should be ready to burn.  For the stuff that looks like it is gonna hiss toss some splits in the microwave for about 20 minutes, then check.  If they need more time in the nuker, buzz them a little more.  Who woulda thought that the ole' nuker was just good for leftovers and popcorn


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## Hogwildz (Feb 15, 2007)

p.s. off topic but is Newton/Yardley still an insane real estate market



*Yes even worse nowadays.
Bucks County in general is insane pricewise.
Alot of White collars from NYC & North Jersey moving there, along with the whole eastern side of PA. Driving everything up.*


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## babalu87 (Feb 15, 2007)

sstanis said:
			
		

> Surprised that an ole' tip that had been posted on this board b4 was not mentioned.   If ya have an old microwave sitting in the basement or taking up room in a attic, as long as it still works, zap the wood.  It really does work.  scout through your pile, pull off the ones that have the dark brown ends with checks those should be ready to burn.  For the stuff that looks like it is gonna hiss toss some splits in the microwave for about 20 minutes, then check.  If they need more time in the nuker, buzz them a little more.  Who woulda thought that the ole' nuker was just good for leftovers and popcorn



The electric bill to dry out enough wood to get a stove hot would far exceed any benefit from burning said wood.

Also, who has splits small enough to put in a microwave?????


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## sstanis (Feb 15, 2007)

Not really, a decent microwave, is 1600watts/hour. or 1.6kwh or in my area it costs 16 cents to operate the nuker for an hour during the day or 10 cents an hour past 11pm.  Plus, microwaves are more efficient than elctrical resistance b/c they use vibration of the substance's internal molecules to create heat.  hence the substance cooks from the inside out rather than from the outside in.  with a 1.3 cubic foot inside of the nuker ya can get a decent number of splits.  Just saying it is an option, considering wood that is hissing and bubbling from the sides really isn't putting out that much heat in the stove


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## sstanis (Feb 15, 2007)

sorry, my microwave is 2.1 cubic ft


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## DiscoInferno (Feb 16, 2007)

Electrical (resistive) heat is 100% efficient; there's no where else for the energy to go (OK, a little might radiate out a window), and there's no external heat source like in a heat pump.  The microwave will also in this scenario turn into a 100% efficient heater, for the same reason.  Here much of the heat energy will go into vaporizing the water.  But all the heat it puts out again comes from the wall socket.

That aside, it's probably no worse than a "warm-mist" humidifier, and you get either the humidity or the dry wood for "free".  Beats burning wet wood.


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## sgcsalsero (Feb 16, 2007)

Hogwildz said:
			
		

> p.s. off topic but is Newton/Yardley still an insane real estate market
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Next you know it'll approach NJ insanity, I used to listen to NJ 101.5 in the morning, couldn't believe the taxes people were paying across the river (I'm former Philly)


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## sgcsalsero (Feb 16, 2007)

sstanis said:
			
		

> Surprised that an ole' tip that had been posted on this board b4 was not mentioned.   If ya have an old microwave sitting in the basement or taking up room in a attic, as long as it still works, zap the wood.  It really does work.  scout through your pile, pull off the ones that have the dark brown ends with checks those should be ready to burn.  For the stuff that looks like it is gonna hiss toss some splits in the microwave for about 20 minutes, then check.  If they need more time in the nuker, buzz them a little more.  Who woulda thought that the ole' nuker was just good for leftovers and popcorn



I gotta try that (when my wife is out shopping), did you do a moisture test before/after to prove it . ..


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## rakuz66 (Feb 16, 2007)

I've had that problem too.  I split the wood smaller, that way it dries quicker.


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## Eric Johnson (Feb 16, 2007)

Two can play that game, Roo.


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## sstanis (Feb 16, 2007)

Actually Disco, heating water by microwave uses 30% less energy for a given volume than electrical resistance, just by the way it "cooks"  That aside.  Newton can either call around and purchase better seasoned wood from someone else, split smaller pieces or find a way to be able to utiliize the wood he has.  I've just found it is easier, less time consuming, less of a mess to nuke some pieces.  It is not the only way I do it.  I also have a wood  storage ring that sits by my stove, that within a few days, will make the wood burnable.  Have cooked splits on top of the stove.  I guess to each his own.  I gotta admit I am jealous that alot of the people on this board have the land area to be able to season wood for 2 yrs, and still have 8 cords still seasoning.  Me b/c of landscape aesthetics, plantings, and living in an area where the neighbors would cringe if they saw a couple of cords stacked and tarped unfornately can only fit 2 cords into my barn.


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## Eric Johnson (Feb 16, 2007)

Later that same summer.....


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## Roospike (Feb 16, 2007)

Eric Johnson said:
			
		

> Two can play that game, Roo.



I give , i surrender ! EJ is my idol . :coolsmirk:


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## DiscoInferno (Feb 16, 2007)

sstanis said:
			
		

> Actually Disco, heating water by microwave uses 30% less energy for a given volume than electrical resistance, just by the way it "cooks"



Where does that 30% figure come from?  There must some hidden assumption in this, because it takes one calorie to raise one cc of water one degree C, and I'm not aware that the manner of heating matters any.  If I could heat water in a microwave using only 0.7 calorie per cc per degree C, I could make a perpetual motion machine by pulling a full calorie back out to power the microwave.  Therefore, that figure must assume some losses for resistive heating, like radiation from an electric stove, which a) wouldn't happen with a submersed heating element and b) isn't the comparison I was making anyway.  My "closed system" for thermodynamic purposes was the whole house, not the log or the water in the log.

And I still like the idea for a combined humidifier/wood dryer.  Could have custom buttons to match the claimed state of wood purchased from disreputable dealers: "seasoned", "well seasoned", "ready to burn", all of which would be the same as the "green" button!  Although using your numbers it would cost $115 a month to run 24/7.


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## heydan (Feb 16, 2007)

I had the same problem -- ran out of wood I'd dried myself and had to use some "seasoned" by a wood dealer.  It does ignite readily but also has the hissing problem.  I find I have to give it more air for a while after reloading than normal in order to get it hot enough for clean burning (where clean is defined by visible secondary combustion in the firebox and non-visible emissions from the chimney).  This wood looks kind of seasoned (it's a bit gray) but is not as dry as I would like.  But by burning hot with lots of air for a while when I reload I think I can boil off the water and then proceed as if it were dry after that.  It's better than burning oil!


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## jjbaer (Feb 16, 2007)

NewtownPA said:
			
		

> Hi, I have another question. I am relatively new to the whole wood stove thing, but I just recently bought a cord of wood. When I burn it I hear hissing sounds and see bubbles of moisture at the ends of the wood. This wood was sold to me as "seasoned hardwood".
> 
> Is there anything I can do about all that wood that's so damp internally?
> 
> Do most of you order your wood in the spring and keep it covered all summer and fall in order to keep it dry for the following winter?



Leave it outside, either cover or uncovered for 9-12 months....for most wood types, that will dry it out and it shouldn't hiss anymore....


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## elkimmeg (Feb 16, 2007)

My wood dream setup about a mile from me note the 4 way wood processor splitter onc cord cut split and loaded in 20 minutes


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## sstanis (Feb 16, 2007)

Microwaves heat water by dielectric and magnetic resonance, given a certain gigahertz.  It is the dilelectric (where the water molecules having both positive and negative charges align themselves to the alternating charges) and magetic resonance, which the hydrogen atoms ossicilate when excited by magnetism.  Moreover, microwaves have a longer wavelength allowing for deeper penetration as compared to conduction, convective, and infrared (for a given input).  Just trying to just one of many ways he could utilize his current supply


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## cogger (Feb 16, 2007)

NewtownPA said:
			
		

> Hi, I have another question. I am relatively new to the whole wood stove thing, but I just recently bought a cord of wood. When I burn it I hear hissing sounds and see bubbles of moisture at the ends of the wood. This wood was sold to me as "seasoned hardwood".
> 
> Is there anything I can do about all that wood that's so damp internally?
> 
> Do most of you order your wood in the spring and keep it covered all summer and fall in order to keep it dry for the following winter?




If the wood is just plainly "wet" one thing you can do (if you have to room around your stove) is stack your next days burn pile around your woodstove using the heat to dry it. 

If you have lots more room around your stove thanyou can turn your stove palor in to a homemade kiln. LOL. I once knew a ol timer that filed half a room with several piles of wood around his stove and he would give it a week to dry out. Then again running a kettle on the stove didn't make much sense anyway to humidify the air ?#$%^&@


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## DiscoInferno (Feb 16, 2007)

sstanis said:
			
		

> Microwaves heat water by dielectric and magnetic resonance, given a certain gigahertz.  It is the dilelectric (where the water molecules having both positive and negative charges align themselves to the alternating charges) and magetic resonance, which the hydrogen atoms ossicilate when excited by magnetism.  Moreover, microwaves have a longer wavelength allowing for deeper penetration as compared to conduction, convective, and infrared (for a given input).  Just trying to just one of many ways he could utilize his current supply



I'm not questioning the physics of microwave heating, I'm just curious under what experimental conditions it would be 30% more efficient than resistive water heating, which can be made essentially 100% efficient.  Just a basic conservation of energy question.  Is this a comparison of boiling water on an electric stove vs. a microwave oven?  Certainly there the stove radiates energy away that doesn't go into the water.  But then the magnetron isn't 100% efficient either.

So how long do you need to nuke a green split to make it burnable?  I've not tried this yet, although now I'm tempted.


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## sstanis (Feb 16, 2007)

Depends upon your definition of wet.  The stuff that I know, just by looking at it and feeling it, that will hiss, sizzle, spit and bubble.  Fill up the ole' nuker and generally within 1/2 hr to 40 min it will burn to the point of none of the above.  So I probably brought it down to the 25% moisture level, never stuck a meter in it.  I admit that I was skeptical when I 1st read about it on this board, but tried it and it worked.  Also was skeptical of north/south burns being longer than East/West.  But I when I started burning really thick, dense chunks, I found that by going north/south I could fit more poundage of wood in Heritage than by going East/West, which I guess allowed for my longer burns.  That is what I love about this board, alot of people contribute some great ideas.  Doesn't hurt to try some of them.  Me I work ungodly amount of hours (90+hrs/week without commute).  I have maximize my burn times.  To me, a few kilowatt hrs here and there  drying wood in nuker beats my electric baseboard from kicking on from wet wood smoldering my fire or having  to babysit wet wood to get stove up to optimal temp.   Now would I go out and buy a couple of cords of green wood and dry it in entirty in the nuker, heck no.  But I do know that 12cents to dry 40+ pds of wood that could not have been used makes some sense.  Try it you might find it works.


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## jjbaer (Feb 16, 2007)

sstanis said:
			
		

> Microwaves heat water by dielectric and magnetic resonance, given a certain gigahertz.  It is the dilelectric (where the water molecules having both positive and negative charges align themselves to the alternating charges) and magetic resonance, which the hydrogen atoms ossicilate when excited by magnetism.  Moreover, microwaves have a longer wavelength allowing for deeper penetration as compared to conduction, convective, and infrared (for a given input).  Just trying to just one of many ways he could utilize his current supply



From an energy standpoint, it takes a FIXED amount of energy to raise the temp of say, 1 lb of water, 1 deg F and that unit is the BTU.  No amount of fancy physics or "new math" will get you around that.....I don't care if you use microwaves, or a blowtorch or electric resistance...BUT...that said, not all heating methods utilize 100% of the energy consumed to heat the water as some is lost to the environment, that is, while it may take 1 BTU to raise 1 lb of water 1 deg F, when using the microwaves it may take say, 1.5 BTU consumed to get 1 BTU into heating the water and with the blowtorch it may take, say, 1.6 BTU consumed to get that same 1 BTU into the water, etc., so, from that standpoint, one method may be more efficient than another.....


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## carpniels (Feb 16, 2007)

Eric,

That is just an insane amount of wood. It would last me 4 years. 

Why is is all cut to that one size? You have a boiler, does it not take really long splits? I heard some of them take 24 or30 inch splits. Why are yours so small?

Thanks

Carpniels


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## slowzuki (Feb 16, 2007)

I think the tale of the microwave is it cooks things with 30% less electricity than resistance.  Does not change the efficiency, just you are heating less of the room when microwaving.  I don't think the microwave is going to dry the wood well, try to boil a glass of water dry in the microwave.

The cheapest way to do it is to split it as fine as possible, leave it indoors for as long as possible and burn it.  You don't lose all that much heat burning wet wood it is just hard to burn in an appliance designed to burn dry wood.  You may as well buy electric resistance heaters if you are gonna microwave several cords of wood dry.


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## Andre B. (Feb 16, 2007)

slowzuki said:
			
		

> I don't think the microwave is going to dry the wood well, try to boil a glass of water dry in the microwave.
> 
> The cheapest way to do it is to split it as fine as possible, leave it indoors for as long as possible and burn it.  You don't lose all that much heat burning wet wood it is just hard to burn in an appliance designed to burn dry wood.  You may as well buy electric resistance heaters if you are gonna microwave several cords of wood dry.



If you get real serious about it you could get one of these. 
http://www.made-in-china.com/showro...ina-30KW-Microwave-Wood-Drying-Equipment.html

Small microwave ovens are often used to measure moisture content of wood.
http://www.modernwoodworking.com/00issues/june/news/roughmill.htm


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## slowzuki (Feb 16, 2007)

I must be a purist, kills me to even think about electricity to do something time will do!  The microwave kilns sure are fast but eat a lot of power.


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## NewtownPA (Feb 16, 2007)

sgc said:
			
		

> p.s. off topic but is Newton/Yardley still an insane real estate market


 Yes it's pretty nutty around here. Personally I love the area, it's close to Philly and it is possible to commute to NYC Manhattan from here too.


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## NewtownPA (Feb 16, 2007)

Hogwildz said:
			
		

> Newtown, that seems a lil steep for mixed wood. I used to deliver firewood in that area around Richboro. Of course that was back in the mid to late 80's. It was 125 a cord then for mostly oak with some maple mixed in. Another indicator of drier wood is the color. The wood darkens as it dries. It should be almost brown or grayish looking.
> If you have a hard time finding a decent delaer, I can call a landscaper friend of mine that lives in Southampton, he may have, or know a decent person that has decent wood. Down that area theres not many areas to harvest your own. You might be able to get some from the state parks, Tyler, Core Creek et. You'd have to call the park commision and ask. They might not do it down there.
> 
> 
> Is Goodnoes still open? Remember going there for icecream all the time.



Hogwildz,

Thanks for your offer to call your friend - I may take you up on that offer in a few months.  For now I'm fine though.

I don't really have the equipment for cutting my own wood. All I got is my axe and a wheelbarrow - rather caveman-ish eh??  

Goodnoes is no more. It has been levelled (this past fall). It's nothing but dirt now. They had a change of management some time ago. Anyway my wife heard from some ladies at the gym they are going to build a chain restaurant there.


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## NewtownPA (Feb 16, 2007)

Eric Johnson said:
			
		

> Two can play that game, Roo.



Holy WOW! 

I live on a quarter acre, so I can't afford to store more than two cords at once.


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## Eric Johnson (Feb 16, 2007)

carpniels said:
			
		

> Eric,
> 
> That is just an insane amount of wood. It would last me 4 years.
> 
> ...



Those are all between 24 and 26 inches, Carpniels. One of my concerns about the new boiler was finding one that could handle my inventory of cut wood. The Tarms max out at 20 inches, I believe, while the EKO will take up to 27 inches.  The boiler I have now would probably take 36-inchers, but that's too much to handle. Can you imagine splitting a 3-foot chunk? Anyway, since I got into boilers I've always cut 24-inch wood. It's fairly easy to split and handle, and it's also easy to keep track of your volume. In my case, that's a consideration.

Each of those rows has four cords.


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## carpniels (Feb 16, 2007)

WOW,

Looks can be deceiving. They looked like 16"ers to me. 24 is indeed large. 

Like I said 4 rows of 4 cords each is 4 years of burning. 

Carpniels


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## sgcsalsero (Feb 16, 2007)

Eric Johnson said:
			
		

> Each of those rows has four cords.



Eee gads . . did you split all of that with an 8lb maul . .


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## DiscoInferno (Feb 16, 2007)

NewtownPA said:
			
		

> Eric Johnson said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I've managed to fit 6+ cords on my 1/6 acre, mostly in stacks around the house.  My house perimeter has been termite treated lately, so that's not an issue.

Here are the stacks on the north and south sides of the house, these are currently being (re)stacked for next year.


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## DiscoInferno (Feb 16, 2007)

And here is the wood in the back of the house (east side).  The long row next to the retaining wall is newly stacked for next year, and I'm currently burning off of the other two.


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## Eric Johnson (Feb 16, 2007)

sgc said:
			
		

> Eric Johnson said:
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I used a six-pounder on some of it.


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## NewtownPA (Feb 16, 2007)

DiscoInferno said:
			
		

> And here is the wood in the back of the house (east side).  The long row next to the retaining wall is newly stacked for next year, and I'm currently burning off of the other two.



Wow you've got a very efficient system of storing your wood!  Looks great! I'd just be afraid of wolf spiders coming into the house with all that wood so close. Eewww...


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## DiscoInferno (Feb 16, 2007)

NewtownPA said:
			
		

> DiscoInferno said:
> 
> 
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They do love to live in the gap between the stack in back and the basement wall, but they mostly stay outside back there.  We have had many wolf spiders run in the front door, however, (they hide in the crevices and run in as soon as you open the door) and I don't have any wood stored there.  I've had to live with huge wolf spiders ever since college (they liked to drop on you from the ceiling there), and they don't freak me out quite as much any more.


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## NewtownPA (Feb 16, 2007)

DiscoInferno said:
			
		

> NewtownPA said:
> 
> 
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I'm telling you, wolf spiders are the devil incarnate! We have large ones as big as your palm and they run almost as fast as a human can walk. Yuck, yuck, yuck!  I spray around the entrances to our house to keep them at bay.


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## TMonter (Feb 16, 2007)

Here is a couple pictures of some of my wood pile. This summer I'm going to build a permanent cover on this side of the house for the wood.


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## TMonter (Feb 16, 2007)

Second Picture - Close Up


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## DoubleClutch (Feb 16, 2007)

NewtownPA said:
			
		

> I'd just be afraid of wolf spiders coming into the house with all that wood so close. Eewww...



You should see our wood piles! I kill *black widows* in them every year!


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## Gooserider (Feb 18, 2007)

One option that I haven't seen mentioned so far is to look at getting "log length" wood and processing it yourself.  This is a medium cost choice between scrounging and cutting it yourself and purchasing cut / split from the wood guy.  It does require that you get yourself the appropriate gear (saw, PPE, etc.) but you can probably get away with a lighter saw, and won't need the pickup truck, trailer, or other stuff to move big loads of wood long distances.

Essentially ask wood dealers for a cost on a "tri-axle" load of log-length cordwood.  This is the big truck size, and is typically between 5-7 cords worth of wood when processed, but will be delivered as a pile of logs 8-20' long.  You will need a place where they can put the wood that can be accessed from your drive or other solid ground they can drive to.  You should get this early in the spring, pretty much as soon as the snow is gone, (same thing applies to any other wood) which gives you most of the summer to get it cut and split.  My usual drill was to fire up the saw, cut one or two tanks of gas worth, then split what I'd cut, and get the GF to stack it into my woodsheds - The important thing is to get it up off the ground as soon as possible, and possibly cover the tops as the season moves along.

 Gooserider


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## MichaelS (Feb 18, 2007)

Eric Johnson said:
			
		

> Later that same summer.....



mistake


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## NewtownPA (Feb 20, 2007)

Gooserider said:
			
		

> One option that I haven't seen mentioned so far is to look at getting "log length" wood and processing it yourself.  This is a medium cost choice between scrounging and cutting it yourself and purchasing cut / split from the wood guy.  It does require that you get yourself the appropriate gear (saw, PPE, etc.) but you can probably get away with a lighter saw, and won't need the pickup truck, trailer, or other stuff to move big loads of wood long distances.
> 
> Essentially ask wood dealers for a cost on a "tri-axle" load of log-length cordwood.  This is the big truck size, and is typically between 5-7 cords worth of wood when processed, but will be delivered as a pile of logs 8-20' long.  You will need a place where they can put the wood that can be accessed from your drive or other solid ground they can drive to.  You should get this early in the spring, pretty much as soon as the snow is gone, (same thing applies to any other wood) which gives you most of the summer to get it cut and split.  My usual drill was to fire up the saw, cut one or two tanks of gas worth, then split what I'd cut, and get the GF to stack it into my woodsheds - The important thing is to get it up off the ground as soon as possible, and possibly cover the tops as the season moves along.
> 
> Gooserider



I like your idea. I'm going to have to look into that. I'm in what's termed "the outer suburbs" (ie, i'm not city, not surburbs, but I'm not country either)


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## Gooserider (Feb 20, 2007)

NewtownPA said:
			
		

> Gooserider said:
> 
> 
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If you go for it, I would reccomend a good saw, probably a Husky or equivalent with an 18"-20" bar - I have a 16" Poulan that I find is a little on the light side - There are lots of discussions about saw options in the Gear forum.  

You should also get some form of chain sharpening tools, and the usual small assortment of tools needed to take care of the saw.

There are a few options on splitting - the easy / expensive way is to get a powered splitter, either gas or electric, the biggest question being how much your budget allows - more money equals more power....  You can also rent them, or possibly borrow one from a friend, etc...

The cheaper way to do it is what I use, namely hand splitting.  This is less expensive, and will save you from spending money on the health club as well, but takes more time and obviously is much more work...  You will want at least 2-3 wedges, and a 6-8 lb sledge to drive them with - better is a "splitting maul" with a sledge head on one side and a splitting blade on the other.  Some folks also use a "Monster Maul" that is a heavier version of a splitting tool that uses a 12lb head and a steel pipe handle - its a bear to swing, but will split most rounds with far fewer hits.  Again, you will find lots of threads on this as well.

Most important, don't forget your Personal Protection Gear...  I reccomend one of those combo setups that combines ear protectors, a face mask, and possibly a hard hat.  The hard hat is optional if you are just cutting on the ground, but is more important if you are dropping trees or doing other overhead work.  Kevlar Chainsaw chaps are very much worth while, as are chainsaw boots - these both have layers of kevlar in them that are designed to stop a moving chain (hopefully) before it has a chance to damage you severely - Again discussed in the gear section, along with testamonials from folks that have been glad to be wearing it...  Remember that a chainsaw is arguably the most dangerous power tool you can buy, and buy the gear accordingly....

 Gooserider


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## NewtownPA (Feb 20, 2007)

Gooserider said:
			
		

> NewtownPA said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for all that good information! I can see that it's going to start costing $$$ real fast!  ....though it is a "one-time buy". I'm going to have to price everything out to get an idea of how much I'll end up spending. My wife has wanted a new bathtub for a while so I'll have to budget things carefully to get the most bang for my buck.


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## Henz (Mar 12, 2007)

I go log length all the time. I usually get 7 cord of poles..I ahve a 33 ton splitter and a huskee 357 XP.. the dump trailer helps too. I find that when I get hardwood in poles,  get it for around $65/cord..Another thing is to dive right into it and dedicate yourself to cut and split two full years wroth of wood in one year..so that way each consecutive year you get your new green wood you are actually splitting it not for the coming heating season but for the following.


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