# Tandem kayak - lake use



## Ashful (Jul 7, 2019)

I was asked to look into kayak options for a mother and child (ages 6 and 10) to do short lake outings.  No long trips.  No river use.  Just a big calm lake, one mother, one child.

I spend every weekend in a boat, and used to do river canoe trips in my youth, but I’m a complete noob on kayaks.

Please educate me.


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## EatenByLimestone (Jul 8, 2019)

My wife wanted one.   Probably so I could do the paddling while she talked and pointed at things.   I vetoed it, lol.   

I saw one being used this week with both people paddling.  It looked fun!



Matt and absolutely no help here.


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## Ashful (Jul 8, 2019)

EatenByLimestone said:


> Matt and absolutely no help here.


The thread bump is a help!

I should have said, mom with one child at a time.  My OP may have implied two kids at once.

I think I’m looking at plastic sit-on designs, for warm weather lake use.  I see a ton of inflatable options, even at Walmart.  But since I plan to double-deck this on one of my sailboat trailers, I’m thinking a hard shell option is likely better for us.  I haven’t seen much in the way of hard shell tandem sit-ons locally, though.

I suspect with smaller kids, folks just use a single sit-on with parent and child, no need for a tandem.  That might work with the 6 year old, but the 10 year old is getting a little big for that.


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## PaulOinMA (Jul 8, 2019)

Is there and EMS (Eastern Mountain Sports) by you?  I know a lot closed, but we still have one here.  Check if they have kayaks for rental.  The EMS here sells them at the end of the season for very good prices.

If they do, I'd talk with the manager for first dibs on the one you want.


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## pjohnson (Jul 8, 2019)

I don’t have any experience with tandem kayaks but have 4 of the cheap plastic ones. They work great for just playing on the lake. The grand kids are 7, 8, and 10 and have no trouble paddling their own kayaks. I have the sit in ones very stable haven’t ever tipped one except getting in or out of them. The advantage of a sit on one is no chance of flipping it and getting trapped in it and if you wanted to get wet and swim you could get back on it. I prefer things with motors but the wife enjoys her peaceful morning kayak


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## PaulOinMA (Jul 8, 2019)

pjohnson said:


> … have 4 of the cheap plastic ones. They work great for just playing on the lake. The grand kids are 7, 8, and 10 and have no trouble paddling their own kayaks …



This place up here in New England looks to be the go-to place for the inexpensive plastic and inflatable kayaks.

https://www.oceanstatejoblot.com/searchresults?Ntt=kayak&Rdm=686&searchType=simple&type=search


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## Ashful (Jul 8, 2019)

Thanks, guys.  Been looking at a few options, as time allows.  So far, I’m liking the FeelFree Gemini, but not settled on anything, yet.

We do have a few local rental places, perhaps I should check in with them.


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## bholler (Jul 8, 2019)

I never liked the sit on ones personally.  I always feel like I am sitting to high in them and have trouble finding a comfortable paddling position.  But now I have a bad shoulder so no paddling till I get it fixed.  My sister and her family all have sit on ones though and they love them. So I would recommend they rent or borrow a few first to see what they like.


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## Ashful (Jul 8, 2019)

You confirmed my suspicion, bholler.  Not even being a kayaker, I was looking at these sit-on units, and thinking the position above the water line is less favorable than a sit-in unit.  But for casual lake fun with little kids, I think the sit-ons have a few advantages, not least of which is no chance of a kid getting trapped in a capsize.

A few have suggested inflatables, they do seem to be really gaining a lot of popularity, and the storage advantage is obvious.  I already have too many toys (boats) to store, so that’s not lost on me.  However, I don’t love the idea of dickering around with a pump at the lake while I’m already trying to set up one of my sailboats, and I’m not sure how they’d withstand being car-topped (or boat-topped) at 60 mph while inflated.


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## PaulOinMA (Jul 9, 2019)

Have you checked the regional Craiglists for as far as you'd drive?

Asking $425 over in NJ … https://southjersey.craigslist.org/tag/d/woodbury-pelican-unison-136t-tandem/6926232640.html

$700 new … https://www.pelicansport.com/us_en/unison-136t


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## Ashful (Jul 9, 2019)

PaulOinMA said:


> Have you checked the regional Craiglists for as far as you'd drive?
> 
> Asking $425 over in NJ … https://southjersey.craigslist.org/tag/d/woodbury-pelican-unison-136t-tandem/6926232640.html
> 
> $700 new … https://www.pelicansport.com/us_en/unison-136t


I use Craigslist for selling things (including boats), but it always seems to much bother to use it for buying things, for two reasons:


1.  There is no Craigslist for my local area, so when I search based on the two closest cities, items can be 2 to 4 hours round trip for me.

2.  Most folks on there are completely unrealistic.  For example, the first sit-on Tandem that comes up when I check Philly Craigslist is a Malibu Two for “$600 cash, firm”.  I can buy this kayak brand new from a dealer with a warranty for $699, without having to drive to West Chester to do it!


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## maple1 (Jul 11, 2019)

Hmm, how did I miss this one - I could maybe have used it a couple days ago.

We have a cottage, on salt water. Only 3 years into it. Have had kayaks in the back of our minds for a bit now. A couple of tandems came up for sale on the local buy & sell Tuesday, at (I think) a very good price. $200 each, with paddles. They were sit-ons. Likely basic entry levels at that price. Wife is away this week, at the cottage, and we couldn't get our communications & act together in time to check them out - they went quick, we needed to jump right away if getting them. So we ended up passing - may regret it but not sure yet. There is a new rental place not far away that we will try a few out at first (I have no prior kayak experience - her some but not much), but a tandem might be good to have around for when company comes at least. So any more feedback would be good, either on tandems or kayaks in general. We're in a tidal area, and when it is out it is out a long way, but we're also close to the outlet of a nice tidal river - the rental place is on the river. We might not be in an ideal spot for the more economical options, but don't think we want to budget for nice sea kayaks. The main reservation in general, is the local FDs get called out a few times each year during the summer to rescue people that have gotten carried away part way to PEI by wind & currents - I don't want us to end up being the subject of one of those operations.


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## Ashful (Jul 11, 2019)

Right now, my decision comes down to inflatable vs hard shell, a sit-on tandem either way.  Cost is not really a factor, either is under my threshold for caring, it really just comes down to convenience in usage and storage.  Do I want to deal with the hassle of storing a 12’ long hard shell, and double-decking it on my sailboat trailers, or do I want to deal with the hassle and likely shorter life of blowing up an inflatable at the lake?

Can an inflatable be towed inflated, or would the wind be hard on it at highway speeds?  Anything else to push me one way or the other?  Anything I’m missing?


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## SpaceBus (Jul 11, 2019)

maple1 said:


> Hmm, how did I miss this one - I could maybe have used it a couple days ago.
> 
> We have a cottage, on salt water. Only 3 years into it. Have had kayaks in the back of our minds for a bit now. A couple of tandems came up for sale on the local buy & sell Tuesday, at (I think) a very good price. $200 each, with paddles. They were sit-ons. Likely basic entry levels at that price. Wife is away this week, at the cottage, and we couldn't get our communications & act together in time to check them out - they went quick, we needed to jump right away if getting them. So we ended up passing - may regret it but not sure yet. There is a new rental place not far away that we will try a few out at first (I have no prior kayak experience - her some but not much), but a tandem might be good to have around for when company comes at least. So any more feedback would be good, either on tandems or kayaks in general. We're in a tidal area, and when it is out it is out a long way, but we're also close to the outlet of a nice tidal river - the rental place is on the river. We might not be in an ideal spot for the more economical options, but don't think we want to budget for nice sea kayaks. The main reservation in general, is the local FDs get called out a few times each year during the summer to rescue people that have gotten carried away part way to PEI by wind & currents - I don't want us to end up being the subject of one of those operations.



I'm in a similar situation and I ordered a pair of folding kayaks for $705 USD with paddles. I really wanted an Oru Bay or Beach, but that's a lot of coin. The Tuktec kayaks I ordered weigh less than 30 lbs and only need 3-4" of draught so we can launch from just about anywhere. If we get serious about kayaking (my previous hobby was grassroots auto racing, so I am looking for a new away from home hobby) then we will upgrade to the Oru XT seafaring kayaks. We really decided on folding kayaks so the MIL, or really any of our friends, can pick us up and take us home after a day of paddling.

Many years ago I used to kayak on some lakes and fish from it. Unfortunately I used to store at a friend's house and it was stolen. That kayak was an open cockpit sit in with storage. I did not enjoy the hassle of transporting it, despite the low weight. The water here is too cold for a sit on, at least that's how I feel.


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## SpaceBus (Jul 11, 2019)

Ashful said:


> Right now, my decision comes down to inflatable vs hard shell, a sit-on tandem either way.  Cost is not really a factor, either is under my threshold for caring, it really just comes down to convenience in usage and storage.  Do I want to deal with the hassle of storing a 12’ long hard shell, and double-decking it on my sailboat trailers, or do I want to deal with the hassle and likely shorter life of blowing up an inflatable at the lake?
> 
> Can an inflatable be towed inflated, or would the wind be hard on it at highway speeds?  Anything else to push me one way or the other?  Anything I’m missing?



Oru makes a foldable tandem kayak, I saw it for sale at the LL Bean outlet.

They also have a modular system that I like.


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## Ashful (Jul 11, 2019)

SpaceBus said:


> Oru makes a foldable tandem kayak, I saw it for sale at the LL Bean outlet.
> 
> They also have a modular system that I like.



Hmm... the only Oru tandem listed at REI costs $2000, and gets an average 2 star review.  Maybe this isn’t their best option?

I’m in the under $1k class, for my wife to do simple day excursions with the kids on a lake.  This ain’t whitewater territory, where there would be any reason to spend $2000 on a kayak.


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## maple1 (Jul 11, 2019)

SpaceBus said:


> I'm in a similar situation and I ordered a pair of folding kayaks for $705 USD with paddles. I really wanted an Oru Bay or Beach, but that's a lot of coin. The Tuktec kayaks I ordered weigh less than 30 lbs and only need 3-4" of draught so we can launch from just about anywhere. If we get serious about kayaking (my previous hobby was grassroots auto racing, so I am looking for a new away from home hobby) then we will upgrade to the Oru XT seafaring kayaks. We really decided on folding kayaks so the MIL, or really any of our friends, can pick us up and take us home after a day of paddling.
> 
> Many years ago I used to kayak on some lakes and fish from it. Unfortunately I used to store at a friend's house and it was stolen. That kayak was an open cockpit sit in with storage. I did not enjoy the hassle of transporting it, despite the low weight. The water here is too cold for a sit on, at least that's how I feel.



Would you have a link for what you got?


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## SpaceBus (Jul 11, 2019)

maple1 said:


> Would you have a link for what you got?


https://foldupkayaks.com/products/six-pack

Many reviews mention very slow shipping, so it will probably be a while until I can share our experience.


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## SpaceBus (Jul 11, 2019)

Ashful said:


> Hmm... the only Oru tandem listed at REI costs $2000, and gets an average 2 star review.  Maybe this isn’t their best option?
> 
> I’m in the under $1k class, for my wife to do simple day excursions with the kids on a lake.  This ain’t whitewater territory, where there would be any reason to spend $2000 on a kayak.



Wow, I hadn't seen the price on the tandem. If I were in your shoes I'd be looking pretty hard at an inflatable. Get a dewalt 20v inflator and make it easy to inflate at the lake. If your wife and kids like the inflatable tandem, they will probably want their own. Then the modular hard shell system looks better.

Here's one I hadn't seen before https://www.campsaver.com/snap-kaya...Tf_n9LhTCzq_IOOVXgK-nTr4OovvbfMRoCTHsQAvD_BwE


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## Ashful (Jul 11, 2019)

SpaceBus said:


> Here's one I hadn't seen before https://www.campsaver.com/snap-kaya...Tf_n9LhTCzq_IOOVXgK-nTr4OovvbfMRoCTHsQAvD_BwE



I like the idea!  Gotta watch and read some reviews.


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## SpaceBus (Jul 11, 2019)

Ashful said:


> I like the idea!  Gotta watch and read some reviews.


I think the version LL Bean sells has sections that fit inside of themselves, but I'm not sure. Monday required a visit into "the city" over an hour away, so a stop at LL Bean was required.


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## xman23 (Jul 14, 2019)

Not that I've had an Inflatable, but you do bang these boats up. I assume there are a lot of different grades of material. I'm guessing an inflatable in a lake is a slug, slow. Some people do use high end duckies on white water rivers. I've seen them and they are extremely tough material. 

The quality hard plastic recreational boats hull is designed for good primary stability, but poor secondary stability. All that means is you can put a lot of weight off center, but when you get it over to far, it then rolls over quickly.  A reck boat is fast.  They have a keal, gunnels and rocker that makes them easy to keep straight. You sit low, the center of gravity is low. Easy paddle position.  I would not be concerned with getting out of the boat in a roll over. You fall out, even with a skirt.
White water boats have hulls designed to do none of this. They turn on a dime don't go straight and you easily go up 90 degrees on the side and return.  

Originally sit on top were used in the surf. Some issues for me. Higher center of gravity. I didn't like that you sit in water, as there are drain holes that lets water come up. Maybe more of a white water thing. And there a bit heavier. But what I like is you roll it over and get right back on.  

I've done some lake and reservoir kayaking, but never felt comfortable being a long way from shore with the potential to roll over. The boat has flotation and won't sink. But getting back in and pumping it out, well to much for me. That's where a sit on top is nice.  But in a class 3 - 5 river I'm at home.   

 A Kayak is a good thing to find used, because the condition is what it is. Check how worn thin the bottom is from bouncing off the river rocks. A major issue is boats left outside.  The plastic gets brittle from UV sun damage. And then they crack and split. I've stored my boats inside for 20 years old and they are perfect. They hang off the basement ceiling so not much issue with taking up room.


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## Dobish (Jul 15, 2019)

i have spent a lot of my time paddling in kayaks, selling kayaks, and transporting kayaks. I think something sit in is a way to go, like a Wilderness Systems Pungo 120 is a great boat for most people's needs on the lake. It is big enough and stable enough that you can have someone sit in front, but you also aren't sitting directly on the water. You can fish out of them, chill out, and they are relatively maneuverable. 

Most people that I sold boats to came in 3 categories- whitewater, long distance sea kayakers, and families with lake houses that just wanted something to have fun in. No need to buy a $2K boat when a $625 boat will do the same thing. The biggest thing i would say it is worth spending money on is the paddle and a bilge pump!  A lightweight paddle makes all the difference, even for a novice paddler. 

I sold a handful of inflatable kayaks, and every single one was used approximately 1 time....


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## SpaceBus (Aug 25, 2019)

maple1 said:


> Would you have a link for what you got?



The pair of kayaks finally came in Friday and I took one out on a pond today. It was pretty uneventful. Aside from water falling off the paddles I stayed dry. Assembly and disassembly were not smooth, but it was the first time for this particular Kayak. I practiced on the other kayak at home first, but I'm sure I'll be very good at this after a few more times. Perhaps next time I'll drop it in the salt water across the street from the pond. I'll post a picture from the pond when I remember to bring the camera in.


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## PaulOinMA (Aug 25, 2019)

Dry is a good thing.


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## SpaceBus (Aug 25, 2019)

If I could find a good sock/skirt for the kayak that would be perfect. It's more of a tiny canoe than a kayak anyway. A longer paddle set would help as well, maybe something around 96". The set that came with the pair of kayaks are very short.


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## EatenByLimestone (Aug 25, 2019)

PaulOinMA said:


> Dry is a good thing.




Dry isn't mentioned in any of the really good kayaking adventures/stories I've read though, lol.


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## SpaceBus (Aug 25, 2019)

EatenByLimestone said:


> Dry isn't mentioned in any of the really good kayaking adventures/stories I've read though, lol.


There is some truth to this!


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## Ashful (Aug 26, 2019)

Spent 90 minutes on the water with my daughter yesterday, in the very wet little sailboat I bought to train the kids on.  Wind was in the teens, and waves were over 1 ft. on our little local lake, so we were getting plenty of spray.  She had refused to bring a sweater, stubborn little one, so we had to head back in when she got chilly.  A good time, anyway.

Only saw one or two kayakers out there yesterday, and two paddle boards.  The windsurfers were having the most fun, blazing across the water at increadible speed.  The little boat we were sailing was built more for stability than speed, but we still had a good time, almost keeping up with one of the Hobie trimarans.  It would have been a great day in my racing boat, but with little ones in the crew, that boat stays in the garage.


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## SpaceBus (Aug 26, 2019)

The couple of photos I took from the pond yesterday. It's a bit cloudy but decent so my wife might go to the pond with me today, perhaps even into the salt water.


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## PaulOinMA (Aug 26, 2019)

Ashful said:


> ... The windsurfers were having the most fun, blazing across the water at increadible speed...



I was on the Outer banks last September for Hurricane Florence, my 3rd hurricane on the Outer Banks.  I walked down to the beach to check out the surf.  A guy was windsurfing.  Amazing amount of air he was catching: fastest and highest I've seen a windsurfer go.  pretty neat!


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## PaulOinMA (Aug 26, 2019)

EatenByLimestone said:


> Dry isn't mentioned in any of the really good kayaking adventures/stories I've read though, lol.



The closest canoeing/kayaking to here is the Sudbury River.  A ripple is considered rapids. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudbury_River


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## SpaceBus (Aug 26, 2019)

You can kind of see my wife there in the distance in the orange kayak. For tooling around on calm water on a windy day these folding canoes work really great, but I do want to get an Oru XT at some point. These folding kayaks are really more of a mix of kayak and canoe. You can see how open the cockpit is with the dry bag and my feet on the sides. I'm sitting with my torso a bit behind the foam side rails and 5' 10". The only thing I don't like about this setup would be the paddle set that is sold with the kayaks. They are short and really get water everywhere when you want to move quickly. I found using it like a canoe and switching sides back and forth with one paddle end worked better for staying dry. With drip rings and a 96" paddle I think way less water would get splashed into the cockpit.


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## williamtell (Aug 26, 2019)

We have a couple of nice clear streams /small rivers you can float in Oklahoma. Even in ideal conditions with current, kayaking is still work with kids or a wife who wants to sit back.

On a lake without current, you are going to burn yourself out within  an hour.

We did a float trip with my wife and 3 kids in a raft which is extremely stable and plently of space for a cooler. 3 hours everyone was ready to be done. That was with current working I out favor.


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## Ashful (Aug 26, 2019)

williamtell said:


> Even in ideal conditions with current, kayaking is still work with kids or a wife who wants to sit back.
> 
> On a lake without current, you are going to burn yourself out within  an hour.


That’s why I prefer wind power!


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## MTY (Aug 27, 2019)

Put as much thought into the PFD's as the kayak.


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## SpaceBus (Aug 28, 2019)

MTY said:


> Put as much thought into the PFD's as the kayak.



We have PFD's in the truck, but didn't feel the need to wear them paddling around the 4' deep pond. Thanks for the heads up though. I really wanted to take the kayak out into the salt water the first time I tried it, but I didn't have a PFD on me so I decided against it.


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## xman23 (Aug 29, 2019)

Talking about PFD. I have one specifically designed for Kayak paddling. It's got a lot of floatation in the front and back, and nothing around the arms. You don't know you have it on. I wouldn't go out without wearing one.


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## Ashful (Aug 29, 2019)

xman23 said:


> I wouldn't go out without wearing one.


A few people seem to die in my racing class each year.  Being a sport of mostly middle-aged men, they're usually not sailing catastrophes, most of the deaths are heart-attacks on the water.  Guys who look like and think they are in good shape, but spend too much of the week in the office, and often only get out for exercise on the weekends.  Sounds like a lot of us, myself often included.

I can't imagine how a heart attack in a kayak would turn out well, without a PFD.


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## SpaceBus (Aug 30, 2019)

xman23 said:


> Talking about PFD. I have one specifically designed for Kayak paddling. It's got a lot of floatation in the front and back, and nothing around the arms. You don't know you have it on. I wouldn't go out without wearing one.


I have some like that but they are advertised for fishing. I like the pockets and lack of anything abov chest level.


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## SpaceBus (Aug 30, 2019)

Ashful said:


> A few people seem to die in my racing class each year.  Being a sport of mostly middle-aged men, they're usually not sailing catastrophes, most of the deaths are heart-attacks on the water.  Guys who look like and think they are in good shape, but spend too much of the week in the office, and often only get out for exercise on the weekends.  Sounds like a lot of us, myself often included.
> 
> I can't imagine how a heart attack in a kayak would turn out well, without a PFD.



Most heart attacks don't go well, regardless of buoyancy


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## Ashful (Aug 30, 2019)

SpaceBus said:


> Most heart attacks don't go well, regardless of buoyancy



I have had two acquaintances have major heart attacks in the last ten days.  One was revived, and oddly back at work immediately from ICU, the other wasn’t.  Your odds today are much better than any time in the past, but not if you drown, in the process!

But the lesson isn’t really about heart attacks, just that unplanned chit happens.  Be in a safe condition, when it does!

I have to admit, I never wore a PFD when boating, even when racing overpowered sailboats that flip when you sneeze at them.  But now I take my kids sailing, and want them to wear PFDs, so I began wearing one as an example.  I bought a very good one, and it’s so convenient and comfortable, I really can’t imagine now why I’d want to go without it anymore.  It even has a zipper pocket where I keep my phone and car key!


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## SpaceBus (Aug 30, 2019)

Ashful said:


> I have had two acquaintances have major heart attacks in the last ten days.  One was revived, and oddly back at work immediately from ICU, the other wasn’t.  Your odds today are much better than any time in the past, but not if you drown, in the process!
> 
> But the lesson isn’t really about heart attacks, just that unplanned chit happens.  Be in a safe condition, when it does!
> 
> I have to admit, I never wore a PFD when boating, even when racing overpowered sailboats that flip when you sneeze at them.  But now I take my kids sailing, and want them to wear PFDs, so I began wearing one as an example.  I bought a very good one, and it’s so convenient and comfortable, I really can’t imagine now why I’d want to go without it anymore.  It even has a zipper pocket where I keep my phone and car key!



The pockets were a big selling point to me.


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## firefighterjake (Sep 2, 2019)

Lots of folks drown in water that isn't over their heads . . . it isn't always a heart attack . . . seizure, they fall over and get panic stricken, etc. I always wear the PFD while kayaking.


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