# First sourdough / PIZZA!



## bfunk13 (Aug 17, 2014)

Ordered an Italian sourdough starter online and have been feeding it for a week now.
I ordered it for pizza dough but thought i would try some bread first.
Turned out very good. I have way too many hobbies!


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## bsruther (Aug 17, 2014)

bfunk13 said:


> Ordered an Italian sourdough starter online and have been feeding it for a week now.
> I ordered it for pizza dough but thought i would try some bread first.
> Turned out very good. I have way too many hobbies!
> 
> View attachment 136732


I tried sourdough from scratch last winter. My first 2 loaves were pretty good, but it didn't seem to grow after that. I'll keep trying and maybe I'll do better this year. I'm going to try some new pizza doughs this winter too.

THAT is some mighty fine looking loaf of bread. What's on top, poppy?


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## bfunk13 (Aug 17, 2014)

yes, poppy seeds!
You a pizza guy? Don't even get me started. I am a pizza nut!


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## 1kzwoman (Aug 18, 2014)

If you like sourdough try using a yeast strain for home brewing to start a batch.

If a starter fails it's usually from lack of use or being cold. Sourdough is like a baby..needs love and attention ,food, water, to be kept warm and clean.

Sourdough , pizza, beer and babies all good things!


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## bsruther (Aug 18, 2014)

bfunk13 said:


> yes, poppy seeds!
> You a pizza guy? Don't even get me started. I am a pizza nut!


I like pizza but wife is the nut. She could eat it for breakfast, lunch and dinner, every day, hot or cold.
What I don't like is that all I can get from a pizza joint is a mediocre pizza for 25 bucks. Seems like it's gotten that way with a lot of things. If I want to eat something good, I have to learn how to make it myself.


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## bsruther (Aug 18, 2014)

1kzwoman said:


> If you like sourdough try using a yeast strain for home brewing to start a batch.
> 
> If a starter fails it's usually from lack of use or being cold. Sourdough is like a baby..needs love and attention ,food, water, to be kept warm and clean.
> 
> Sourdough , pizza, beer and babies all good things!


I tried to make sourdough using wild yeast. When it didn't rise well I added some bread yeast and that gave me some good bread, but it didn't rise well after that.
If this winter is as frigid as last, I'll probably keep the starter in the stove room, no chance of it being too cool in there. Brewers yeast ain't a bad idea though. I think lager yeast will grow in mid 50s temps.


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## Adios Pantalones (Aug 18, 2014)

bsruther said:


> I tried to make sourdough using wild yeast. When it didn't rise well I added some bread yeast and that gave me some good bread, but it didn't rise well after that.
> If this winter is as frigid as last, I'll probably keep the starter in the stove room, no chance of it being too cool in there. Brewers yeast ain't a bad idea though. I think lager yeast will grow in mid 50s temps.


Do you keep feeding it properly?


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## bsruther (Aug 18, 2014)

Adios Pantalones said:


> Do you keep feeding it properly?


Yes, I did everything per the instructions of the recipe that I found online. Can't remember the exact schedule, I think I discarded half of it every day and added more flour and distilled water and then after so many days the schedule changed.


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## bfunk13 (Aug 18, 2014)

I am a pizza nut myself!
Me and my 4 year old could eat it every day. And have!
I live in a small town and we have Dominoes and Pizza Hut.
IMO not real pizza. I love Ny style and especially Neopolitan.
So for 2 years now i have honed my home made pizza skills. Still not there but pretty close.
Here are just a few of the recents.


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## begreen (Aug 18, 2014)

We make our own pizza too. Local spots try, but it is not as good as homemade.


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## 7acres (Aug 20, 2014)

Bfunk13, those are works of art! I bet those didn't last long!


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## wahoowad (Aug 20, 2014)

Where can I order some?


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## branchburner (Aug 21, 2014)

No need to buy one. I started one from scratch a few months ago, with no yeast, and it's working great, no problem... refreshed and used it a half dozen times, and the bread seems better every time.

As I recall, it was a half cup water and a cup of flour (mix of organic white, whole wheat and rye flours) in a jar at room temp for two days (loosely covered), then dump half out and refresh with the same proportions. Repeat on days 3, 4 and 5. Since the initial use, every time I refresh it I put the remainder back in the fridge within a day, and it's surviving fine over the few weeks its in there.

Been hearth-baking about 8 loaves a shot in the backyard brick oven (I know, I know... it didn't happen unless I post the pics... one of these days). Coming out great without any added yeast!

I recommend this book for anyone looking to read about sourdoughs and/or building an oven:
*The Bread Builders: Hearth Loaves and Masonry Ovens*


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## bfunk13 (Aug 21, 2014)

Thanks guys!
It is quite the hobby


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## bsruther (Aug 21, 2014)

Well cough up your sauce and dough recipes then.


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## bfunk13 (Aug 21, 2014)

bsruther said:


> Well cough up your sauce and dough recipes then.




I cook on a Blackstone outdoor pizza oven at high heat (700-800) so i use a neopolitan dough recipe. 
No sugar and no oil. 

Flour Caputo 00 (100%):     638.94 g  |  22.54 oz | 1.41 lbs 

Water (63%):     402.53 g  |  14.2 oz | 0.89 lbs 

IDY (.1%):     0.64 g | 0.02 oz | 0 lbs | 0.21 tsp | 0.07 tbsp 

Salt (2.8%):     17.89 g | 0.63 oz | 0.04 lbs | 3.21 tsp | 1.07 tbsp 

Total (165.9%):    1060 g | 37.39 oz | 2.34 lbs | TF = N/A 

Single Ball:    265 g | 9.35 oz | 0.58 lbs


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## bfunk13 (Aug 21, 2014)

sauce is easy.
one large can crushed tomatoes, drain any free water, salt and garlic to taste. You can add a pinch of sugar.
Sometimes i add a little Italian seasoning.


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## bsruther (Aug 22, 2014)

How does flour caputo differ from bread flour?

Good tip on the sauce. I usually use tomato sauce, but the crushed tomatoes sound good. I canned about 40 jars of tomatoes recently and they would work great for this.
I like my sauce to be basic also. Pretty much what you have there plus a little basil.

Thanks


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## Jags (Aug 22, 2014)

Anytime you might want to kick up your sauce a bit just buzz up some roasted red peppers and add to it.  It makes my ears wiggle.


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## bfunk13 (Aug 22, 2014)

Caputo is an italian flour that is ground very fine.
It absorbs water well and can be used with high hydration recipes.
But to get the benefits from caputo you need to have high heat.
Pizza cooked in wood fired ovens is usually caputo


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## branchburner (Aug 22, 2014)

bsruther said:


> I usually use tomato sauce, but the crushed tomatoes sound good.



I switched from sauce to crushed tomatoes for pizza and will never go back.

Usually I saute some minced garlic and onion with salt, pepper and basil (and/or sage, etc.) and then throw the can of tomatoes in. Makes great pizza. (Quick version, use garlic powder.)


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## 1kzwoman (Aug 22, 2014)

Fresh basil, cherry tomatoes . Cheddar jack cheese pepperoni on potatoe sourdough with roasted garlic in crust served with home brew Pinot noir


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## bfunk13 (Aug 22, 2014)

Looks and sounds outstanding!


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## 1kzwoman (Aug 22, 2014)

bfunk13 said:


> Looks and sounds outstanding!


Potato sourdough is started by rinsing a fresh home grown potato then boiling till soft after peeling. Mash well using cooled water from boil to mix in your starter and flour. Let rise shape
Thank you , your picks made me make my own!


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## 7acres (Aug 23, 2014)

Look what this thread put us in the mood for today! Bfunk's works of art put our humble attempt to shame. But we did make the crust from scratch. Something we'd never done before. It turned out fantastic!


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## bsruther (Aug 23, 2014)

I usually don't start baking until the weather gets cooler but I must confess that this thread has pushed me into premature pizza production too. 
Picked about 12 tomatoes from the garden, peeled them and added them to 3 big cloves of garlic sauted in OI. I like to grate my garlic, it really seems to bring out the flavor...and it did. Added a pinch of sugar, salt, onion powder and fresh basil from the garden. Let the sauce simmer for a couple hours to reduce the water.
Basic dough recipe using bread flour.

The wife usually likes my pizza, but she was moaning and making all kinds of weird vocalizations over this sauce.
I can still taste the garlic 2 hours later.


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## bfunk13 (Aug 23, 2014)

7acres said:


> Look what this thread put us in the mood for today! Bfunk's works of art put our humble attempt to shame. But we did make the crust from scratch. Something we'd never done before. It turned out fantastic!
> 
> View attachment 137099


Dude! 
Are you kidding me here?
First attempt? That looks insanely good man!
Seriously, i guarantee my first home made pie was nothing close to this. 
Very Nice Work!


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## bfunk13 (Aug 23, 2014)

bsruther said:


> I usually don't start baking until the weather gets cooler but I must confess that this thread has pushed me into premature pizza production too.
> Picked about 12 tomatoes from the garden, peeled them and added them to 3 big cloves of garlic sauted in OI. I like to grate my garlic, it really seems to bring out the flavor...and it did. Added a pinch of sugar, salt, onion powder and fresh basil from the garden. Let the sauce simmer for a couple hours to reduce the water.
> Basic dough recipe using bread flour.
> 
> ...



Oh yeah buddy!
Lookin real good. 
I have three sourdough dough balls to be ready tomorrow. 
Have been out at room temp for 24 hrs now. Going to be a total of 40 hr ferment.
Should be good, we will see.

Stoked you guys got out the pizza peels!


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## bfunk13 (Aug 23, 2014)

How long did your dough ferment?
Most of the recipes i use day 2-3 are the best.
Also nice job getting it round man!
Tip, ferment your dough in round plastic containers. Its much tougher to get a round pie from rectangular dough.

A Lot can be learned here 
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php


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## 1kzwoman (Aug 24, 2014)

I use Dakota Maid all purpose flour in my starter and pizza dough .
No recipe per say as my Dad had sourdough pancakes every day for breakfast when I was growing up. Learned starter care from him, bread making from Mom all by look and feel.
I like half breed biscuits like baking powder but use sourdough and soda instead of baking powder for leavening .


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## bfunk13 (Aug 24, 2014)

Deep dish and Stromboli!











View attachment 137109
View attachment 137110


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## DevilsBrew (Sep 24, 2014)

This thread is awesome


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## begreen (Oct 1, 2014)

This thread is killing me. Moved it to the nook so that more folks see it. Will leave a link back to DIY.

bfunk, how did your italian sourdough crust compare to the caputo flour one or are you using the starter for that blend. I see IDY in the recipe and thought that would be yeast?


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## bfunk13 (Oct 7, 2014)

begreen said:


> This thread is killing me. Moved it to the nook so that more folks see it. Will leave a link back to DIY.
> 
> bfunk, how did your italian sourdough crust compare to the caputo flour one or are you using the starter for that blend. I see IDY in the recipe and thought that would be yeast?


So yes i am using caputo 00 flour with the sourdough starter. I meant to put starter instead of IDY but i think both would produce very similar results. I think the trick to this dough is the low yeast percent with long room temp ferments. Up to 48 hours at 65-70 degrees. I do not have an exact science to the fermenting times and temps, i know some people pay very close attention to this. I like 24 hours at room temp in bulk, then ball and put in glass containers. 18-24 hours later you will see a rise and bubbles forming on the bottom of the dough ball. I kind of play it by ear from this point forward. This dough cooked at 700-750 makes a light crunch on the outside, with a tender/chewy inside. My favorite blend yet.Made this one over the weekend!


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## bsruther (Oct 7, 2014)

bfunk13 said:


> So yes i am using caputo 00 flour with the sourdough starter. I meant to put starter instead of IDY but i think both would produce very similar results. I think the trick to this dough is the low yeast percent with long room temp ferments. Up to 48 hours at 65-70 degrees. I do not have an exact science to the fermenting times and temps, i know some people pay very close attention to this. I like 24 hours at room temp in bulk, then ball and put in glass containers. 18-24 hours later you will see a rise and bubbles forming on the bottom of the dough ball. I kind of play it by ear from this point forward. This dough cooked at 700-750 makes a light crunch on the outside, with a tender/chewy inside. My favorite blend yet.Made this one over the weekend!
> 
> View attachment 140626


Do you ferment after the second rise or is it just one rise?
And if I use IDY should I use less than usual?


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## bfunk13 (Oct 7, 2014)

bsruther said:


> Do you ferment after the second rise or is it just one rise?
> And if I use IDY should I use less than usual?



Good point, 24 hour rise at room temp, punch down and make into dough balls, room temp ferment for another 18-24 hours. 
Try the recipe i posted earlier, it will seem like very little yeast when you measure but that is where the long ferment comes in. 
I used to use 2.5 tsp of yeast and it was ready in 8-12 hours. But the flavor was never there.


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## bfunk13 (Oct 7, 2014)

What kind of oven are you using? Max temp?
Caputo 00 flour has no benefit in lower temp ovens. Most home ovens max out at 500-550
If this is the case just use bread flour or all purpose. 
This dough calculator is a great tool, put in your percentages, ball weight (how big you want your pie) and # of dough balls. It will make your recipe for you. 

http://www.pizzamaking.com/dough-calculator.html


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## bsruther (Oct 7, 2014)

If I use bread flour would I use the same amount as caputo?


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## bfunk13 (Oct 7, 2014)

You can do the double rise as described above, then go to the fridge for up too 3-4 days. I actually like a day in the fridge, cool (not cold) dough is much more forgiving than room temp for stretching your skins.


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## bfunk13 (Oct 7, 2014)

bsruther said:


> If I use bread flour would I use the same amount as caputo?


You might use the same recipe but drop your hydration a bit as caputo absorbs water different than bread flour. Might try 60% hydration. Wetter doughs can be very tough to work with.


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## bsruther (Oct 7, 2014)

Yeah, I find the wetter dough stretches to easily.

Thanks


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## bfunk13 (Oct 7, 2014)

bsruther said:


> Yeah, I find the wetter dough stretches to easily.
> 
> Thanks


Yes, and many times a hole in the middle of your pie!


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## bsruther (Oct 7, 2014)

Oven maxes at 500. Hoping to find one that goes to 550 when we redo the kitchen this winter.


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## bfunk13 (Oct 7, 2014)

Pizza stone?
If you go over the deep end like i did you can look into a blackstone outdoor pizza oven.
Here is a video i made of a pizza bake on the blackstone. Forgive the quality and sun. 9 year old on the camera.


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## begreen (Oct 7, 2014)

BFunk, you've become a master. Congratulations!


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## bfunk13 (Oct 7, 2014)

begreen said:


> BFunk, you've become a master. Congratulations!


Haha, well thanks but keep in mind i am only posting the good ones!
I have had plenty of flops i promise you.


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## bfunk13 (Oct 7, 2014)

This video shows how the Blackstone gets its 800+ temps.
Pretty impressive burner and quite the learning curve with this thing.


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## begreen (Oct 7, 2014)

All better than being a slave to tobacco. Have you been able to keep it clean?


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## bfunk13 (Oct 7, 2014)

begreen said:


> All better than being a slave to tobacco. Have you been able to keep it clean?


Quite the memory on you!
Man that was a couple years ago and i am far from a regular anymore. Impressive.
Gotta admit i had my problems, back and forth. But over a year now smoke free and not going back. Still battle it though. Thanks for asking!


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## bsruther (Oct 7, 2014)

No stone yet, can't find one that I like. Looking for one that's at least 16", most that I see are 14 and too thin.
For now I use a round pizza sheet and precook the skin for 1 minute (I know, blasphemy).
I'll probably get a stone and peels after the kitchen's done.

I do like that grate you have your pizza on. Hate it when I put the pizza on the counter and the underside gets soft.


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## bfunk13 (Oct 7, 2014)

bsruther said:


> No stone yet, can't find one that I like. Looking for one that's at least 16", most that I see are 14 and too thin.
> For now I use a round pizza sheet and precook the skin for 1 minute (I know, blasphemy).
> I'll probably get a stone and peels after the kitchen's done.
> 
> I do like that grate you have your pizza on. Hate it when I put the pizza on the counter and the underside gets soft.



Some guys have luck with a steel plate cut to size.
Yeah the cooling grate is nice when doing more than one pizza. Keeps it from getting soggy.


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## 1kzwoman (Oct 13, 2014)

vermontwoodstoves.com has some options you might look at. They have several soapstone sheets or rounds


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