# All-Nighter Giant Moe Stove



## mac8429

I have just purchased what I believe to be an All Nighter Giant Moe Stove. It is approx. 31" wide x 22" deep; has a glass door with a cradle of some sort attached to the inside of the door. I assume this is protect the glass from rolling logs. I can't find any labeling on the stove, except at the base of inside of the door: It says "All Nighter Stove Works Glastonbury, Ct. My parents have had a Mid Moe for years, but I can't find much info on this particular stove. The Mid Moe has a hinged plate at the top edge of the stove opening, but mine doesn't. I know the guy at All Nighter was an ex-Fisher dealer. I would have thought that they would have stamped a model number somewhere. Can anybody shed some light on this stove? Maybe the years it was produced?

Thanks so much for the info on this forum


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## begreen

Sounds like a Big Moe with glass. Is it like this stove?

http://connecticut.remindernews.com...big-moe-woodstove-w-glass-door-blower/3799395

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/wiki/File:allnighterocrbigmoe.pdf/


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## mac8429

No - that's not it. It is either a Jumbo Moe or a Giant Moe. It has one large door with glass; will take a 24" log, and is wider than deep. It has an 8" flue outlet. Can't find any info on these two models other than one ad that say's they are "coming soon". I love the Fisher stoves, but like the fact that this has a glass door and the blower tubes through the firebox. By the way, the blower tube inlet is in the rear underneath the flue outlet, not on the side. Will post some additional photos. It look like this:


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## begreen

Thanks for the picture. I haven't see that one. Maybe Craig has?


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## missing link

Nice Stove, I think there is a member of this site who's dad was affiliated with this stove company or was the stove co founder
 ML


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## mac8429

Mostly looking for stories about the company. If someone worked there or knows something, I sure would appreciate


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## missing link

www.kountrylife.com/cgi-bin/topic.cgi?bd=forum&th=19332
   here is a link with stories and info about the All Nighter Co.
 I hope giving this link is OK with the Mods
 ML


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## begreen

No problem here. The Moe, the merrier.


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## lukem

mac8429 said:
			
		

> No - that's not it. It is either a Jumbo Moe or a Giant Moe. It has one large door with glass; will take a 24" log, and is wider than deep. It has an 8" flue outlet. Can't find any info on these two models other than one ad that say's they are "coming soon". I love the Fisher stoves, but like the fact that this has a glass door and the blower tubes through the firebox. By the way, the blower tube inlet is in the rear underneath the flue outlet, not on the side. Will post some additional photos. It look like this:



My dad has this stove installed in his living room.  It's older than me, so I'm guessing it about 35 years old.  I'll be up there on Thursday and will see if it has any markings or a plate.  He still has the blower that he never uses (isn't even hooked up to the stove)...I'll get a pic of it too.


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## mac8429

Great I'm looking for a blower, so if he wants to part with it, please let me know. I'd be interested.


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## lukem

mac8429 said:
			
		

> Great I'm looking for a blower, so if he wants to part with it, please let me know. I'd be interested.



Just realized you are from Indiana...what part?


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## mac8429

Southeastern - around Perfect North Ski Slopes (Lawrenceburg).


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## webbie

Not sure of the name, but it likely would have been a model they introduced right at the end....of their reign. It was only then that the sideways stoves (orientation) and larger glass doors became popular. I'd have to date it as being 1980-81, whereas the first All-nighters were probably 1976 or so.


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## mac8429

Thanks for the input. Just curious why there is so little info on these stoves.......


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## webbie

Here is some of the court case where Fisher took them to court for copying - it looks like Fisher lost it.....
http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/F2/626/193/158088/

"While we sympathize with plaintiff's disappointment at losing sales to an imitator, this is a fact of business life"


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## mac8429

Seems like there is some animosity against the stoves based on Bob Fisher's design. I have read the book on him; very interesting. He seemed like a hard worker with a great design. I just like the additon of the glass door and the blower pipes added by All Nighter (Moranthe). Can't figure why Fisher wasn't interested in these; maybe he felt they were novelties to wood heat; but it is nice to view the fire that's heating your space.


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## webbie

The market grew so fast - faster than Fisher could expand...and you read in the book that he was not really wired for big business anyway!

So hundreds of manufacturers came into play in the 1975 to 1980 time frame, many of them similar to Fisher. All Nighter had some big advantages - one is being located right in the center of perhaps the best wood burning market in the US. That allowed them to go to market instantly.....another was the name. Great marketing. Customers convinced themselves that the reason it was called All Nighter was because it officially was the stove that burned all night (while others...maybe...did not).

Did you see their ad?


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## webbie

mac8429 said:
			
		

> Thanks for the input. Just curious why there is so little info on these stoves.......



1980 was a LONG time ago. They came and went pretty quick in the scheme of things. It's amazing, when you think of it, that they are still known at all.....


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## mac8429

Saw the ad - what I'm really looking for is the publication "The Woodburner" ; a newspaper of sorts that they came out with regarding their stoves and wood heat. It's mentioned in several ads; one in 'Home Digest' that I have and one multiple times in Popular Mechanics. Anyone have one or a pdf file that would be wonderful; I've been scouring the web looking for one. I realize several of Fisher's dealers built their own similar stoves; Timberline, Hutch, etc. Kind of interesting to the all these variations on Bob's original air-tight stove. I hope Coaly will weigh in on this - he sure has some fascinating posts on Fisher!!


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## lukem

Webmaster said:
			
		

> Not sure of the name, but it likely would have been a model they introduced right at the end....of their reign. It was only then that the sideways stoves (orientation) and larger glass doors became popular. I'd have to date it as being 1980-81, whereas the first All-nighters were probably 1976 or so.



I think you are dead on.  I was born in 1981 and my dad bought his stove in 79 or 80....


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## webbie

The court case confirms the start date!
"In February, 1977, Morande formed defendant corporation, which began production and sale of four models of woodburning stoves in a number of respects remarkably similar to plaintiff's'"

Ah, such is life.....

As to that publication, I seem to remember it was newsprint. There are probably some existing somewhere....but that could be a toughie! I'm going to dig though the files someday soon in a BIG OLD dealers shop in CT.......if I come across one I will grab and scan it.


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## coaly

mac8429 said:
			
		

> I hope Coaly will weigh in on this - he sure has some fascinating posts on Fisher!!


 
Oh boy, took me a while to respond to this one.

I'll start with James A. Sr. (d. 1999) and Olive (d. 1998) Morande. They had a son in 1942,
James Arther Jr. who bought the Fisher license in May of '76. He was the owner of the Olde Towne and Country Store in East Hartford, Connecticut. (his dad worked with him there too) He was also the cause of the costliest lawsuit of Fisher Inc. when he started making his own stove models. I just spoke to someone who knows more than one old employee that was involved with the truckload of stoves that was supposed to be scrapped when Bob found out what they were making. Seems he hired a bunch of druggies putting their paychecks up their nose! (the other reason it was called "all nighter" _allegedly..._..) and didn't mind stealing the stoves from their boss to later sell themselves. Later, he moved to Saco Maine with second wife Donna. He now resides in Naples Florida at 69 and is the owner of Morande Enterprises. A car rental and Daewoo radio installation business. (so you can actually call him and ask any questions about his copy of the Fisher Stove!) Seems his business like All Nighter went south;
Bankrupcy 2005; http://pacer.flmb.uscourts.gov/pdf-new/38918890.pdf
Of course being no stranger to the Courts, he appealed it; http://dockets.justia.com/docket/florida/flmdce/2:2005cv00486/174620/
And finally;
IRS vs. Morande Ent. 2007; http://dockets.justia.com/docket/florida/flmdce/2:2007cv00498/203735/
http://fl.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.20080930_0002782.MFL.htm/qx
James Jr. also had two sons, Peter and James A. III. Both died, James A. III unexpectedly in 2009;
http://www.vt-world.com/NC/0/1242.html

Now in 1943, James and Olive also had Robert. I'm not sure of his involvement in the stove business, but he also worked at his brother's store;

_James A. Morande Sr. of Glastonbury died Sunday at the Glastonbury Health Care Center. He was 79._
_He was born in Somerville, Mass., and had lived in Glastonbury for the past 41 years. He worked for Stop & Shop for many years as a store manager, then many years for the Buckley & Camp Market in Glastonbury, and for the Towne & Country Store in East Hartford with his sons. For the past 15 years, he worked for his sons at Morande Ford in Berlin and Morande Lincoln Mercury in Manchester._
This brother is the owner of Morande Ford, Morande Accura, Morande Lincoln Mercury, and a truck rental business, doing well in Berlin CT.


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## mac8429

Thanks for the info Coaly. Always interesting to hear your take on things.


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## coaly

It's not my take on things, (speculation) that's why I post links to back up the facts.
It's strange when you do a search on Morande Ford, you get company websites, Morande.com, and other big car dealerships in CT owned by Robert. But try to figure out if the brother that owned the stove business (James mentioned in Fisher vs All Nighter) is still in the auto business in Florida. Your search doesn't give you any dealership website, nothing. Only businesses at 8300 Radio Road including Morande Mazda & Suzuki with phone number and fax only. Maybe it was there at one time and is gone? Perhaps the restructuring through bankruptcy court didn't work out, and it's all gone? He is only listed as Rent-a-Car and Deawoo dealer. This is one of the stove business owners I've hit a dead end on.
Here's how I research each person who bought a license to build Fisher Stoves to find out what happened to them, and the business they went into after stoves. First you have to find them;
This old stove business owner has LOTS of old addresses in Florida, was listed in Saco Maine, and the original in Glastonbury CT. So I know it's the right guy. (born Sept. 42, and placed in these towns in son's obit);
http://www.zabasearch.com/query1_za...ANDE&state=FL&name_style=1&refid=emailresults

By clicking on "confirm current phone and address" it uses Intelius website and gives relatives and old addresses confirming it's him. #3 shown below lists wife and son with 3 addresses placing him in Naples FL currently, listing Saco ME and Conn. as first address as confirmed in his son's obituary.

http://www.intelius.com/results.php...name&qc=GLASTONBURY&qf=James&qn=Morande&qs=CT


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## coaly

mac8429 said:
			
		

> Seems like there is some animosity against the stoves based on Bob Fisher's design. I have read the book on him; very interesting. He seemed like a hard worker with a great design. I just like the additon of the glass door and the blower pipes added by All Nighter (Moranthe). Can't figure why Fisher wasn't interested in these; maybe he felt they were novelties to wood heat; but it is nice to view the fire that's heating your space.



Animosity is right ! Put into perspective, James bought a license to make a stove, was sent prints for the various models, and signed a contract to buy doors for them and pay royalty for each stove sold. A few of these licensees decided to have their own doors cast, and sell their own next to the Fisher line. So they made a few improvements, and tried to make them look different to get away with it. They lost their license, and ended up on their own. Fisher's theory was simplicity. Keeping the parts to a minimum to wear out or fail, and simple to build. Fisher started with the largest single door first, and found the need for smaller stoves, so made the other models. Then they found the market wanted to view the fire, so designed the double doors. Later with glass, (Insert,Honey Bear Insert, GM and GP stoves in two door designs) but always leaned towards a solid thick cast iron door to radiate heat. When James decided to make his own, he used the same depth (log length) intake configuration (single on the smallest, dual on the larger through the door, the same way)

Here's All Nighter pics to show the size of the models corresponding to the Fisher brand. Same door seal, hinge, brick configuration, just a notch cut in the step, and tubes added with his own door. Bob was right by keeping it simple. The tubes rotted out and you find them welded and patched like this;


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## coaly

Not to single out All Nighter, here's Tri Lakes version of a Fisher baby Bear. Identical stove with their own cast door ! Sold next to Fisher, these dealers would have Fisher signs in the windows, and sell them next to their own. What would you buy if you were shown a UL listed Fisher next to the exact same constructed stove (built in the back shop right there) for $100 less when the real stove was selling for $350? So they sold more of their own, saved the royalty sent to Bob, and their own brand populated their area since they didn't have nationwide sales capability. Now if you were a licensee selling only Fisher, and one of these unscrupulous dealers was selling their cheaper product taking business from the area you paid for, this started the animosity among dealers.
Imagine paying $25,000 for the rights to your state, and this competitor selling across state lines to your perspective customers!

If I didn't show the front of the door, you would think this was a Fisher product;
Good thing I'm on blood pressure medication.  :vampire:


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## Jason Hall

Wow, lots of Great Info on this site. I have been researching All Nighter's, as I have a few. These old wood stove's are very addicting lol, I want on of every size and brand! This thread helped me learn quite a bit about the history of wood stove's. As much as I hate It when people copy, I do have some respect for people making thing's better. IMO, the All Nighter Is a better heating stove. They changed quite a few thing's to make It look different, and distribute more heat. Have the people that are so against the stove's that resemble a Fisher ever burned an All Nighter to see If It Is possibly better. Either way, I feel bad for Bob Fisher. I have had the same thing happen to me, In a MUCH smaller scale of course. I build Triple clamp's to put modern Motorcycle forks on Classic 3 wheeler's. I have had people directly duplicate my parts It Is very annoying and heart breaking when this happens, but will happen no matter what you do. As far as I know you need to change a product to a certain extent to not Infringe on pattent's. How much did All nighter change with there Moe model's? I agree with keeping It simple, but people naturally feel the need to Improve thing's. I will admit, the all nighter has the possibility for more problems. I have a mid Moe that has a water jacket recess surrounding the 6" flue outlet. It was Cracked when I bought It, someone burnt It Way to hot I'm sure. I feel the only reason this stove broke was because of the water jacket. IMO the recess needed to be made of thicker material, and needed fire brick protecting the protruding steel Inside the fire box. Mine cracked at the lower section of the water jacket recess on the Inside, It then traveled down the rear seam that IMO should not be where It Is. As far as the tube's rotting, they are pretty thick tube's 3/16" thick at least. I would think maybe a stove that sat outside In the rain would be one of the only one's with rotted tube's?


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## coaly

Welcome to the forum,
It's not that James changed the stove he was supposed to be making under license, he took the same stove and added the tubes. Look close, there's a Fisher under there with a larger ash fender. It will heat just like a Fisher, (made by a Fisher builder, with the same materials) maybe better with a fan pushing air out of the tubes, but it would have to be very strong to overcome the natural convection rising off the top. It should increase the BTU output though. There's one on ebay now that a buyer asked the question if it had a blower. Sellers reply; _It has a place to mount a tiny insignificant blower. Very few HIGH QUALITY STOVES built in the last 35 or more years have fans._ This seller is familiar with Fisher and the capability of the blower in their Inserts, but compares this Insert as "larger than a Grandpa". It takes a 24 inch log, (same as Grandpa) and a poor blower, compared to a Fisher Insert taking a 27" log and having a strong variable speed blower moving air across every square inch of firebox area. Yet the title claims "Better built than a Fisher" ? Selling for over $1,000 when you can get a brass and glass Fisher Insert for 350. UL listing is not mentioned in the description. Obviously an All Nighter Insert is nothing like a Fisher Insert. Anyway;
  It's also not only about someone else copying and selling your product. That's bad enough like you've experienced. Imagine if you patented your Triple Clamps, and couldn't make your own fast enough. You have 10,000 back ordered and it will take you 2 years to catch up. So you hire a machine shop to make your parts under contract. You specify how you want them made, with detailed prints. You pay for trademark protection, so everyone knows they are your brand. Next they make your invention, but change the hardware, or add their own fancy marking and market their own to your customers instead. But your original part is a part of their product. All you can do is sue them for patent infringement and cancel your contract with them. If you lose your suit, all you can do is strive to make a better product than your original. That's what Fisher did with so many revisions and improvements.
Fisher's problem was that he was trying to patent his idea of a outlet higher than the door to prevent smoke from coming in. The judge found you can't patent the way something naturally works. (heat rises)  They could have put the air intakes on the sides, (his patent was for intakes in the door) and put door gaskets on to change the stoves configuration, but they didn't.
The other steel plate stoves I've used have all been comparable to the Fisher's I still heat with.
The reason I prefer Fisher is they were the first, they made the most, had more models than any other, and more options and accessories. They were the wood heater leader and everyone else followed.

I believe the reason the tubes burn out is due to their thickness being less than the other materials. Sides are protected by brick, so only the top gets direct flame and is thicker. (I assume All Nighter has a 5/16" thick top) Had they made them with replaceable black iron pipe, they would have been easily repaired. (or schedule 80 pipe the thickness of the stove)


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## Jason Hall

Great reply Coaly, make's a lot of sense. For some reason I love the All Nighter, regardless of all the mumbo jumbo LOL. I keep searching and keep finding these old stove's. I did miss a fisher by a couple of hours. It looked just like the Tri Lakes stove you posted. Anyway thanks for the Info, your a wealth of knowledge. Not sure why, but I will keep picking these thing's up as I find them cheap enough. These stoves are as addicting to me as a old Honda 3 wheeler I want them all.


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## mac8429

Just brought home some original All Nighter literature (from the cabin) that I have never seen anywhere else. I will scan and post for all to have a look. My parents purchased a Mid Glo Moe from All Nighter Stove Works West in Richmond, Indiana in 1984. Been going strong since then with the original blower and no leaks/burnouts in the tubes. If you recall, even Baxter Fisher had a go at his own stove; he was awarded a patent for his stove and came up with an air inlet design used by Fisher. Check the patent records. While Fisher undoubtedly had the original airtight woodstove and was exploited as all great ideas have been, he by no means made the only successful airtight stove. To say Fisher was the best soley because he was the first is not accurate. Others followed and the technology has continued to improve. That would be like saying after Henry Ford developed the Model T, all cars that followed would pale by comparison.

I am definitely a fan of Bob Fisher, but not to the exclusion of others who also made good quality stoves.


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## coaly

The patents are on the first page of the "Everything Fisher" thread.
When Baxter designed a cooler cap to touch, Bob suggested he patent it to take advantage of royalties.
 It was invented for, but not made just for Fisher Stoves. Anyone could buy his cap. The cap hasn't been improved upon, and is still made for stove manufacturers today. Newer versions of the cap with 5 fins uses the same patent number as the first.

No one said "Fisher was the best because they were the first". It reads; "I prefer Fisher because they were the first". The All Nighter was a well built stove. Built JUST LIKE the Fishers. By a Fisher dealer who was shown how to build Fisher Stoves, then built his own version just like it, THEN made improvements. I heat with a Hitzer hopper coal stove, and before that a Gibralter coal stove. Both welded steel plate with firebrick lining. Who do you think came up with that idea?

Obviously you've never driven or worked on a Model T. They ARE the BEST vehicle ever made.
I own a 1921. It's not a show car, it's an all original driver. They were made of Vanadium steel which is very rust resistant. Henry was a racer and developed it for cam and crankshafts. When he designed the car, he built most of the car out of it. Tool steel that chisels and drill bits are made of today. It has no water pump, no fuel pump, no oil pump, no distributor, no transmission....... no clutch. (the bands and brakes are replaceable from inside the car, in the drivers seat) Parts are still available cheaper than modern car parts today. Mine has original spark plugs, because they come apart to replace the electrode. Oh, and my license plate was a pay $70 once, never renew, and is transferable to another vehicle if I get another. I'm in a state that has annual vehicle inspections. This car is exempt. My insurance is $13 every 6 months.

Improvement is a matter of perspective.

The first airtight stove made was the Papa Bear size and shape. The smaller Mama and Baby were necessary changes for people that didn't need that much heat. The double door wasn't an improvement, it was progress. Just like the glass door stoves. They use shorter wood, have breakable parts, and are less efficient. That should not be considered an improvement. They were necessary changes to appeal to people and to compete with other stove makers. Same as nickel and brass plating. So to collect All Nighters, would not be a fun thing to me, since the first one looks like the last. As far as I know, they didn't have to progress through changes, they just copied the different models already in existence. All other stove manufacturers made their stove from their single location. Fisher is the only one with variations across countries that makes them interesting and hard to find.

You should put the All Nighter literature in Hearth Wiki where people will find it as well.


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## coaly

Here's one of those scrapped stoves that didn't get scrapped. The guys made steel plate homemade doors and sold them after they closed.


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## mac8429

Thanks for the reply Coaly.

I too admire the simplicity of older vehicles and older technologies; I have old tractors, a jeep truck, a hit-and-miss engine, and have owned a myriad of old vehicles. While I am very familiar with Henry Ford and the Model T, and have visited the Henry Ford Museum  and Greenfield Village in Dearborn, Michigan, I also am a student of history and realize that the Model T was followed by the A, B, TT truck, etc. I appreciate the vision it took to develop any product: for example, the television. Invented in the USA. Go into any retail store today and look for a tv made in the USA. Even Curtis Mathes is not made here anymore. All made overseas, but nevertheless we continue to buy them...Sorry for getting off the subject....

I admire your loyalty to Fisher Stoves, and while I would have dearly loved to buy an original Fisher stove with glass doors and a blower, one didn't exist (to my knowledge). Bob Fisher had the vision and others took that vision and offered different options. Purists shouldn't look at a glass door and blower tubes as bells and whistles that don't matter to others, just realize that a market existed for those options. I have no doubt that Morande copied Fisher's intial design; it's obvious when you look at the stoves. Like it or not, other stoves are part of the air-tight stove history that exists.

I, for one, appreciate your knowledge of Fisher Stoves and hope that you continue to document their history on this forum.


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