# Fresh Cut White Ash



## Battenkiller (Dec 23, 2010)

I've always known that white ash will burn OK when first cut, but I never knew for sure what the moisture content was until today.  I have seen it listed as low as 30% and as high as 42%MC.  I never had a moisture meter until last season, and during the time since I didn't have any verified freshly cut ash to stick the prongs into.

Today my firewood guy dropped off a face cord of ash, and I asked him when it was cut.  He said he cut it this afternoon.  He knew I wanted ash and this one was in the way of the big money white oak monster he wanted, so he killed two birds with one stone and cut and split it for me.

I just went out and got a good sized split and re-split it, just in case the outside dried a bit during the truck ride.  Here's the result:









I went out and got a few more, and the highest sapwood MC I found was 29%.  The heartwood was up in the upper 30% MC range, but there isn't much heartwood in most ash.  So this explains to me why it will burn right away.  I've got red oak splits that still show moisture content in the 30s, and they were cut a year ago.


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## Mad Tom (Dec 23, 2010)

Interesting. I don't have a meter, but I have burned ash that has only dried a few weeks and it seemed fine. Never burned freshly split, but I see that it can be an option if needed.


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## Battenkiller (Dec 23, 2010)

I just went down to check the stove.  Flue temp was about 250Âº and stove top was 550Âº.  I opened the damper and looked in and there was still a nice hot bed of coals, but time to reload the stove.  I figured, "It's warm in here, what the heck?"  

I went out and got three fair size splits, still full of frost, from today's delivery that I haven't even stacked yet, took them in and dropped them on the coals.  They were in flames within 10 seconds.  I usually open the air all the way at that point, but I really wanted to test this stuff so I left the air like it was - primary air about 1/4 open, secondary air all the way open.  Flue temps rose to 500Âº within 10 minutes, stove rose to 650Âº and I shut the bypass damper.  I could hear the secondary combustion kick in, flue temps rose to about 550Âº, then slowly dropped over about 15 minutes to cruise at 325Âº .

I won't need this wood until February sometime, but it's nice to know it would do the job if I did need it somehow.  Without a lot of excess air or excess flue temps, and cranking out some serious heat.  I ain't going out there with a Maglight to check the stack, but I'd be willing to bet it's burning smoke free.


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## NH_Wood (Dec 23, 2010)

That's neat. Always heard about burning green ash, but thought it was likely for old stoves and the newer stoves would balk at it. I'm guessing running a lot of it through the stove would gunk you up though - what do you think? Cheers!


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## SolarAndWood (Dec 23, 2010)

I bet it will burn even better after 6-8 weeks in the Battenkiller Basement Kiln.


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## Battenkiller (Dec 23, 2010)

NH_Wood said:
			
		

> That's neat. Always heard about burning green ash, but thought it was likely for old stoves and the newer stoves would balk at it. I'm guessing running a lot of it through the stove would gunk you up though - what do you think? Cheers!



Well, I don't have a newer stove, but I don't see how that would make a difference.    Everybody designs a stove that, first and foremost, must pass the EPA test or it can't be sold.  The EPA testing protocol calls for wood that is 19-25% dry-basis.  Those emission and efficiency numbers that are hyped by the makers and bandied about by the membership here are taken from data gathered during these tests.  On the stump in the woods, this stuff is a mere 2% above the high end of the EPA test wood.  

And if that 2%MC is a deal breaker to some, it will easily drop 2% outside over the next few weeks, even in the cold.  No help needed from 6-8 weeks in the BKK.  Yeah, the heartwood is higher, but there's so little of it.  You could easily split it out for later use if you were worried about it.  This is ash, not elm.  It falls apart at the sight of my axe.

I'm not saying all white ash will be this low when first cut, but these last three loads (all from the same woodlot) are burnable now... in any stove.


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## NH_Wood (Dec 23, 2010)

Batten - okay - forgot you had an older stove. Was thinking that the higher MC would be harder for a newer stove, but didn't realize that 25% is the upper recommended MC for modern stoves (how'd I miss that with my countless hours on hearth?!). Thanks! Cheers!


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## rdust (Dec 23, 2010)

We have a lot of white ash here in Michigan that is dead or dying and I've checked it many times right after splitting.  Usually the heart wood is in the 35-38% range for me, some higher some lower.  On Monday I split some that I cut around July and checked a piece just for kicks, it read 28%.

Last season I burned wood in upper 20's lower 30's range and this year I find it much easier burning wood in the 20% area.  Biggest difference I see is easier starts, with being able to turn the air down sooner which equals less babysitting for me.

You have to remember "ash wood wet or ash wood dry, a king shall warm his slippers by".


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## wood-fan-atic (Dec 23, 2010)

End of October I started splitting 3+ cords of ash that had just been dropped. The heartwood rang in at about 38% MC. I'm curious what it is now. I'll check today when I get home and post it later.


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## Backwoods Savage (Dec 23, 2010)

Battenkiller, just one quick look at that picture and I already guessed what you would be writing! Just looking at the bark one could see that the tree is already basically dead. Here is a picture of a white ash that is already dead and just look at the color of the bark:






You can also see other white ash in the picture. One on the right is already losing some bark so is basically dead. The one on the immediate right still has some life left in it.  In this particular area I have about 25 ash trees and now they are all dead. The ash I cut last winter were all dead and I'm betting the moisture was even lower than what you are finding. 

Anybody need some good firewood? We have plenty.


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## Battenkiller (Dec 23, 2010)

Dennis, I specifically asked if this tree was still living and the guy said it was.  He was a bit apologetic about it, but added, "Ya, gotta kill a lot of trees to get at the good ones, that's what I do for a living, kill trees."  This guy has 35 years experience selling quality veneer logs, I'm pretty sure he knows a live tree from a dead one.  Besides, we have no real EAB problem here so far, and my guy said there's none in this particular woodlot.  Plenty of standing dead oak if I want it, he says, but not dead ash.

Most charts I have seen list white ash as having a green MC of about 30%, I just never confirmed it until now.  Heartwood is higher in moisture as I said, but most of the ash I've seen growing around here has just a small core of heartwood, the rest is creamy white sapwood.  At any rate, this is superior firewood right now and will only get better.  It's drier than my 1 year oak, and that stuff sat for a few weeks in the hot, dry basement before I put it back outside in the spring. 

Great count, too.  First two face cord stacked up to 4' high and 8' long. A real face cord by definition, but more than 1/3 cord because it was bucked 18-20".  Yesterday's load was positively obscene, way above the top of the truck rails.  "I thought the last load looked a bit light, so I wanted to make sure you got a full three face cord."  I haven't stacked it yet, but I'll bet this one stacks close to half a cord for $50.  It really pays to make friends with the pro loggers.  This is just nuisance stuff to them, something that has to be cut and moved to get the big moneymaker logs out of there.  If they can sell some of the small stuff for a few bucks cash they are happy, and only too glad to give you a full rick.


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## Backwoods Savage (Dec 23, 2010)

Batten, he might be right but the bark says differently. Perhaps what he was seeing is the suckers the tree will send out after it has been attacked. This is what we've seen on almost every ash that had died. They try to stay alive for a couple years but eventually they lose. Still makes good firewood.

Burning ash green I have stated many times that we did that quite a bit; one whole season. Some lit off pretty good while others sat there and smoldered for a while. We found that the key was to not wait for the coal bed to burn down at all but throw the new stuff on top of the big coal bed. We did not freeze that winter but did get chilly a few times and also cleaned the chimney several times. So caution is advised: check that chimney often.


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## Battenkiller (Dec 23, 2010)

NH_Wood said:
			
		

> Was thinking that the higher MC would be harder for a newer stove, but didn't realize that 25% is the upper recommended MC for modern stoves.



NHW, the 20% MC figure that folks quote is specified in the EPA testing protocol as 16-20% _wet-basis_.  That is fully equivalent to a 25% MC reading on almost any electrical resistance meter I know of.  The meters are all calibrated for the dry-basis method of expressing moisture content used by the lumber and pulp industry, which is only concerned with knowing how much wood fiber is in a given load.  Bottom line, if you resistance meter says 25%... toss it in the stove, it's already 20% water by weight - the high end of MC range for the EPA testing procedure.


Wet-basis = weight of the water divided by the weight of the original piece.

Dry-basis = weight of the water divided by the oven-dried weight of the wood.


Trust me, I have looked into this thoroughly, and it's just the way it is.  Too bad a lot of folks are resistant to this information, and end up obsessing about wood that is reading above 20% and below 25% and thinking it's not ready to go when it is just about perfect.  By the time their wood gets below 20% on their meters, it is already at the low end of the EPA test range.  Stoves aren't normally tested below 16% wet-basis, so we'll never know if wood this dry really burns cleaner or more efficiently, but the stuff definitely burns faster, no mistake about that.  Unless you have your own stack-loss way of determining your emissions, everything else is just anecdotal.


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## joshlaugh (Dec 23, 2010)

A couple of years ago I tried burning fresh cut ash.  These were not dead or dying trees but ones that I cut down for a guy in town.  I split them and threw a few thin, small pieces into the Heritage.  They smoked and smoldered for the entire burn cycle.  I couldn't get them to burn worth anything and my wife was not happy being cold.  I don't have a MM so I don't know what the moisture was at, but since then I still give ash at least 6 months if not a year to season for my stoves.  It seems to burn better in them with the seasoning.  My buddy can throw fresh cut ash right into his stove and it burns well, no smoke or creosote.  I think different stoves behave differently.


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## ISeeDeadBTUs (Dec 23, 2010)

I also think more of the Ash is dying than we thought.


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## Battenkiller (Dec 23, 2010)

ISeeDeadBTUs said:
			
		

> I also think more of the Ash is dying than we thought.



As far as I know, the Emerald Ash Borer has yet to arrive in my area.  It has definitely been reported in the western part of the state, however, we don't have a high density of ash in my parts, not like western NY, certainly not like in the Mid-west.  Density is crucial to rapid spread of the pest.  I have never seen any of the telltale marks under the bark.  Even if the borer has made it to my area, it would have had to arrive sometime this year since they were first discovered in the western part of the state as late as 2009.  If the trees were attacked and subsequently died, the damage would not have occurred anywhere near long enough ago for the trees to be dried out by now, and the bark would not be so tight to the wood.

The bark on all these splits is as tight as a tick to a dog.   In fact, you can't even pry the bark off any ash I've ever gotten because it is always cut late in the season.  These ash trees were without a doubt _not_ killed by the EAB.  If they were dead (which I sincerely doubt), then something else done 'em in.  They weren't very big trees, maybe 12-16", so that's pretty early in life for them to have died of natural causes.


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## CTYank (Dec 23, 2010)

White ash on the stump is so dry that the first time you cut one up with a chainsaw may surprise you.
In short order, the chain will have something like dried caramel caked on the links.
You'd better be sure the chain is well-oiled, and razor-sharp.


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## woodsmaster (Dec 23, 2010)

ISeeDeadBTUs said:
			
		

> I also think more of the Ash is dying than we thought.







It's all dying. It's just a matter of time.


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## Thistle (Dec 23, 2010)

http://www.emeraldashborer.info/

Lots of valuable info here.Your State DNR/Forestry website is even more specific to your area.


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## Backwoods Savage (Dec 24, 2010)

Battenkiller said:
			
		

> ISeeDeadBTUs said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Battenkiller, that is still strange seeing the bark that is breaking up or flaking off. We never see that here until the buggers get busy inside the tree. I got to thinking about this today and it does seem that the trees did continue to fight on for about 2-3 years after the bark began looking like that. 

As for the bark coming off the wood, I never had too much until the last 2 years. Two years ago I cut a bunch that were only partially dead. A lot of bark peeled off when I split it but certainly not all. Last year almost everything I cut was dead. Still, not all the bark came off but a lot of it did. I also looked at the wood and without a MM I would still not have been afraid to burn that wood right then. 

You can see some of the bark I threw out from last year but yet, notice all the wood that still had bark on it. All this stuff was dead (well, it still is).


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## NH_Wood (Dec 24, 2010)

Thanks for the great info on MC Battenkiller - this info should be a sticky - with some title about MC. I spent a lot of time going through my stacks this fall, getting all the 20% or less stuff and leaving anything that was much above it. Nice to know that nearly all of my wood for next year is already good to go - most of the red oak was reading about 25%, which I thought was too high. Next year it will be a joy to burn - thanks again! Cheers!


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