# So, The Submersible Well Pump Took A Dump...



## Dix (May 24, 2016)

Had a trickle yesterday morning when I turned on the shower. Turned it off, when down to the basement, and fiddled the switches & levers, and the tank filled. I said "hmm, something funky happened". Shower was semi decent, I figured pressure issue due to tank recharging. Silly me.

This AM nadda, nyet, nyenti, even after fiddling. Good thing I'm an experienced well owner, bottled water a plenty in this joint. Got through the morning, came home from work to meet the well tech, and got the kiss of death.

They'll be back tomorrow to replace it.


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## velvetfoot (May 24, 2016)

My condolences.  I'd be interested in the outcome.


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## Utilitrack (May 25, 2016)

Happened to me in February of 2015, the winter of my discontent. Had to first find someone to respond on a Sunday and then had to hand dig a path through the 3-4' of snow that we had on the ground so that we could pull out the old one, thankfully the temps were reasonably mild that day. May sounds a ton better for this to happen, but it sucks regardless.


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## maple1 (May 25, 2016)

Almost 100% of the time I have encountered pump problems, it has been the pressure switch. Which is a relatively easy fix. So hope you have good luck with this.


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## velvetfoot (May 25, 2016)

maple1 said:


> Almost 100% of the time I have encountered pump problems, it has been the pressure switch.


Hah!  That was the kiss of death.


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## maple1 (May 25, 2016)

Maybe - ooops.


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## sportbikerider78 (May 25, 2016)

maple1 said:


> Almost 100% of the time I have encountered pump problems, it has been the pressure switch. Which is a relatively easy fix. So hope you have good luck with this.



So you mean the switch fails and that causes the pump to work overtime?  

I'm actually going to install a 300 gallon reserve tank in my basement.  This will operate on a series of level sensors and prevent the pump from coming off and on repeatedly.  I may only come on a few times a day.  It will have a second pump that pulls from the tank that is made for quick on and off cycling..and I can vary my home potable water pressure independent of the well pump. 
$3k,,so I've been putting it off.


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## maple1 (May 25, 2016)

I was speaking mainly of the switch stopping to work & not turning the pump on when the house pressure got low. Or doing it intermittently. That could be from something electric like  contacts corroding (quite likely living in a dampish basement), or it could be from sediment or dirt getting in the pressure sensing (wet) side & gumming that up so the switch doesn't see pressure properly - which I guess would make a fail or going wonky the other way & not turn the pump off when it gets up to pressure. I've had both. If you've got a weakish pump, it could keep on running until it burn out or you notice it hasn't shut off. Or it builds enough pressure to blow something off - if the pump is capable. Also good for running up your power bill without noticing until you get your bill.

I don't have a submersible, and am glad I don't need one - a running pump is something that grates me like fingers on chalkboards even if it's not loud. Even if nobody else here notices it running, every time it starts I am cycling 'is something using water right now or is something running when it shouldn't be' in the background of my brain space. Leaky toilet flappers usually being the main problem I'd find. As far as I know a submersible has a similar pressure switch - or at least the only one I have been involved with in trouble shooting did.

Sounds here though that a tech has already diagnosed a bad pump - missed that the first read. Hope he's reliable.


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## Dix (May 25, 2016)

Company has been around for ever. They put the well in, and have done service ever since.

They got delayed on another job today, so now will be here tomorrow.


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## Lake Girl (May 26, 2016)

Sorry to hear the pump kicked the bucket Dix.  I've been in your spot when the water-line froze in February 2014 ... the year old heat trace quit.  It gets a little tricky when you have to recover the submersible pump from a frozen lake  I had all the fun with installing exterior heat trace and insulation for the temporary line  Never been happier than to see the water come out of the taps like it should rather than the buckets or blue jugs on the counter...

I know you have horses ... are they affected by this or stabled somewhere else?


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## Dix (May 26, 2016)

Lake Girl said:


> Sorry to hear the pump kicked the bucket Dix.  I've been in your spot when the water-line froze in February 2014 ... the year old heat trace quit.  It gets a little tricky when you have to recover the submersible pump from a frozen lake  I had all the fun with installing exterior heat trace and insulation for the temporary line  Never been happier than to see the water come out of the taps like it should rather than the buckets or blue jugs on the counter...
> 
> I know you have horses ... are they affected by this or stabled somewhere else?



Yep, blue jugs with taps on the counter, heating HW on the propane stove, reusing the rinse water for the toilet, etc.

The girls are at a friends 15 miles away. THAT pump crapped out last fall


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## Lake Girl (May 26, 2016)

What we take for granted... until we can't.  Hope they get you up and running today.


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## Dix (May 26, 2016)

Done, and up & running. Holy water pressure, Batman !

Left work to meet the 2 awesome guys from Casola Well Driilers. They already had the hole dug as well (ha ha !!) as the pump & pipe out when I got here. Pipe had cracked (sorry didn't get a pic of that)





They upgraded the connections, and added this, which, I assume, is for ease of access?




Added chlorine to kill bacteria, and filled it in for me.

Figured out last night while talking with the Dixette, that the pump is 25 years old. I'd say it owes me nothing !! Took them about 3 hours total. 

Ran the faucets with filters removed for a few minutes, and bought a new shower head 

Tank pressure is sitting nicely @ 60 !


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## Lake Girl (May 26, 2016)

Good deal ... So was it the pipe that actually created the issue and ran the pump til it croaked?

Lots of folks on Long Island with pumps or just a few fringe residents?  Surprised me that there were any...


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## Dix (May 26, 2016)

Lake Girl said:


> Good deal ... So was it the pipe that actually created the issue and ran the pump til it croaked?
> 
> Lots of folks on Long Island with pumps or just a few fringe residents?  Surprised me that there were any...



Long Island is not what many people think. Once you get past midway through Suffolk County, your into the sticks... farms, wineries, wide open spaces. Further to the west, it's "urban sprawl". Out here by me, and further east, wells are common. The east end (except for villages and towns) usually every one is on a well. No NG for heat, it's oil, propane, firewood, or coal. 

It was age, which cracked the pipe. probably been working for a while, and I didn't notice. Although I did notice more iron working it's way against the fixtures, but figured "it's a well, it's going to happen".

I will add that the Dixettes dad did the last install, and using a radiator hose to get the water from the well to the house, was probably not the best idea he ever had


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## Lake Girl (May 26, 2016)

Dix said:


> I will add that the Dixettes dad did the last install, and using a radiator hose to get the water from the well to the house, was probably not the best idea he ever had


Amazed it got approved ... but 25 years ago may explain as there likely was little or no approval process.  Schedule 40 PVC, I think, is what they use for potable water.

I had a different perception of Long Island ... heavily populated all over but sounds like that is wrong  Sounds about the same as my area (minus coal heating) but you are a whole lot closer to lots of people; me, not so much


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## Dix (May 26, 2016)

Lake Girl said:


> Amazed it got approved ... but 25 years ago may explain as there likely was little or no approval process.  Schedule 40 PVC, I think, is what they use for potable water.
> 
> I had a different perception of Long Island ... heavily populated all over but sounds like that is wrong  Sounds about the same as my area (minus coal heating) but you are a whole lot closer to lots of people; me, not so much



Approved???


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## Lake Girl (May 26, 2016)

Wells and septic fields have to be approved by our local Health Unit ... site location, materials used & installed properly.  Got a whole lot worse with requirements for water treatment for commercial ventures ie fishing resorts etc due to the community wells in Walkerton, ON were contaminated by ecoli bacteria from manure run-off... 7 dead, 2500 sick.  Approved systems are a big deal when you go to sell your property in the future ... each component not approved would knock off $15000 or better from the asking price.


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## begreen (May 28, 2016)

Glad the drama is over and water is flowing again Dix. You're right, 25 yrs. is a good long run. It's great to hear that you have good folks for service. Being without water is the pits.


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## BrotherBart (May 28, 2016)

Mine died the day before a bunch of people were coming for Thanksgiving dinner. Got ripped off royally, especially since they couldn't get the thing pulled up and I had to do it for them, but just bit my lip and paid'em.

Dinner went fine.

Glad you are flushing with glee.


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## mwhitnee (May 31, 2016)

I moved into my house in November of 2014 and I know my well is in the back yard.  I have a retaining wall between the house and the well, and it's really freaking me out a bit because I don't know exactly where it is and it would probably be a nightmare to replace the line.

Any suggestions on how to be more prepared for disaster I would appreciate it.


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## Lake Girl (May 31, 2016)

Judging that you have a shallow concrete casing well?  You could try locating it with a metal detector as there are usually lifting rings on the top.  A grid search method would be helpful starting at the retaining wall and moving away from the house.

Wells in my area have to be approved by our Northwestern Health Unit ... they have a site plan on file as part of the approval process.  Similar agency or process in your community?


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## mwhitnee (May 31, 2016)

Wells in my area have to be approved by our Northwestern Health Unit ... they have a site plan on file as part of the approval process. Similar agency or process in your community?

Well calling the town hall may be a very good first step.   There is also a label on the pressure tank in the cellar too. I may remember it being an artesian well but I just have to do more research to be sure.  I don't know as much as I would like about them.  I wonder if they are more likely to do a certain type of well near a lake...


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## maple1 (May 31, 2016)

You got no info on the well at time of purchase?


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## Lake Girl (May 31, 2016)

Artesian well may just be a small diameter casing that may be steel or capped with steel.  

When you find it, get GPS coordinates and record those on the volume tank!


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## maple1 (May 31, 2016)

GPS coords can vary by a few metres depending on the unit & the surroundings. I would likely tape some distances to permanent objects in the area, or house corners.

Ditto the metal detector. Hopefully there is a casing it would pick up.


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## Lake Girl (May 31, 2016)

Depending on materials, once found, I would drive a metal locator stake along side it so it makes life easier in the future.


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## firefighterjake (May 31, 2016)

As mentioned . . . unless you have a Trimble GPSr made for surveying I would go with another option of marking out the well . . . my hand held Garmin and Magellans are at best accurate to within 10 feet and on most days it's more like 15-50 feet. My well casing sticks up out of the ground . . . so I plunked a wishing well over the top!


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## mwhitnee (May 31, 2016)

maple1 said:


> You got no info on the well at time of purchase?



I will have to look at my inspection report and sale documents.


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## mwhitnee (May 31, 2016)

My well may be just outside the perimeter of the yard or something- I have no idea.  My mother has a metal detector- I think I can get that from her.  I think the feed line is copper, does that signify how old it is?


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## Dix (May 31, 2016)

Tank location, in my case, gives a good sense of where the well is. Usually straight out from the tank, following the incoming line to the outside.

Is the pump submersible, or in the basement / area where the tank is?


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## mwhitnee (Jun 1, 2016)

There is no pump in the basement, just a copper line going into a pressure tank.  I can't imagine how they would replace the line if it broke- never mind destroying the retaining wall.

I'm assuming the line goes under the retaining wall and out into the middle of the back yard, but I could be wrong. Calling the town hall today to see if they have any info on it. I'll try to get pictures-opening the pool yesterday and mowing the lawn had me busy until dark!


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## maple1 (Jun 1, 2016)

How far away is the retaining wall from the house? The well might be just outside your basement wall - if you've got a submersible pump I'd suspect it's a drilled well with a casing, which should be able to be found with a good metal detector & experienced used. No guarantees though.

Usually well & septic (if you've got a septic system) details are front & center in a house transaction.


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## mwhitnee (Jun 1, 2016)

How far?  Maybe 10 feet.  If it was right outside the house foundation that would be ideal!  I never thought it could be right there.  The area between the wall and the house is pea gravel.

It's kind of an interesting set up in the back as the yard it sloping towards the lake (although not annoyingly so). The inlet points to the back of the house. Septic was definitely in the front but I'm tied in now.


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## Lake Girl (Jun 1, 2016)

For our lake, water is drawn directly from the lake using a plastic line usually 1 to 1-1/4" line.  Some have submersible; some have foot valve and pump under the house.  The copper line is curious as it would be subject to corrosion forces and likely not the best for exterior.  Any filtration/treatment system near to inlet line?

Sewer is tied in to municipal treatment system?


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## mwhitnee (Jun 1, 2016)

Yes in 11/14.

This is the only info from the town hall. Now I'm more scared- what a long pipeline.  Why is it connected to the cess pool?  Well info for dummies...

Sewer is tied in. I'm assuming the pump is in the indicated well area?  There is no filtration system in yet.


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## maple1 (Jun 1, 2016)

I don't think that sketch means it's actually physically connected to the cesspool - looks more like a tie-line for the distance that's written beside it. I.e. it's 89' from one to the other along that theoretical line. +/-, like. That sketch should get you in the ballpark by first staking out the cesspool location using the first 2 distances from house/deck corners, then taping out the 89' from there under the deck to out back. Not quite how I'd have drawn it, but better than nothing likely.

Also on the second pic - looks like iron pipe coming thru the wall, to left of tank? Then copper out the other side to the house stuff? So maybe galvanized coming in? That's not the best stuff either.


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## mwhitnee (Jun 1, 2016)

maple1 said:


> I don't think that sketch means it's actually physically connected to the cesspool - looks more like a tie-line for the distance that's written beside it. I.e. it's 89' from one to the other along that theoretical line. +/-, like. That sketch should get you in the ballpark by first staking out the cesspool location using the first 2 distances from house/deck corners, then taping out the 89' from there under the deck to out back. Not quite how I'd have drawn it, but better than nothing likely.
> 
> Also on the second pic - looks like iron pipe coming thru the wall, to left of tank? Then copper out the other side to the house stuff? So maybe galvanized coming in? That's not the best stuff either.



I took a real quick look at it over lunch, and yes the pipe looks galvanized rather than copper.  And maple1 you are correct, those are the two permanent reference points, I didn't read the top of the paper.

Couple of other comments, I'm totally hijacking this thread, sorry, should I start another? This is on my mind because I had to do a little repair work on the jets in the pool and drop the water level and am filling it up as of yesterday.  I let it run for 3-4 hours and then rest the pump and start it again...


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## begreen (Jun 1, 2016)

See if you can find the company that put in the well system. Often there are just a few companies in the area that do this work. Ask about the galvanized pipe. It's hard to believe in this day that anyone would use that underground for a well connection, but possible.


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## Dix (Jun 1, 2016)

mwhitnee said:


> Couple of other comments, I'm totally hijacking this thread, sorry, should I start another? This is on my mind because I had to do a little repair work on the jets in the pool and drop the water level and am filling it up as of yesterday. I let it run for 3-4 hours and then rest the pump and start it again...



Post away here, I don't mind  It'll be a learning experience or us all.

My well is about 5 -7 feet directly outside the front of the house from the incoming line, and down just as deep (the incoming line, that is.)



FYI, I have the same tank, and similar set up. I took a pic of the incoming connection to the tank for you.


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## Lake Girl (Jun 1, 2016)

Looks like the distance is roughly 49' from the back corner of the house +/- where it is measured 50' from on the square structure.  Is that the septic tank or ?
If the line is galvanized, you should plan on replacing it.  Likely a fairly old install on the well.  Don't want to panic you but you may want to get water tested ... old lines like that have been known to leech lead into water supply depending on water ph.  With high demand of refilling pool, it will clear out many sediments.  Problem may arise with lower water flows.

Should be able to locate with metal detector depending on how deep it is buried and should lead you right to the well.  Can you locate where the old "cess pool" is so you have another data point?


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## mwhitnee (Jun 2, 2016)

Lake Girl said:


> Looks like the distance is roughly 49' from the back corner of the house +/- where it is measured 50' from on the square structure.  Is that the septic tank or ?
> If the line is galvanized, you should plan on replacing it.  Likely a fairly old install on the well.  Don't want to panic you but you may want to get water tested ... old lines like that have been known to leech lead into water supply depending on water ph.  With high demand of refilling pool, it will clear out many sediments.  Problem may arise with lower water flows.
> 
> Should be able to locate with metal detector depending on how deep it is buried and should lead you right to the well.  Can you locate where the old "cess pool" is so you have another data point?



I did get the water tested (minimally) through free water testing (company sponsored) at Home Depot, it was high in calcium and the ph was a little high but nothing concerning. I don't know if it was tested for lead. I could have the company come out and do more water testing free of charge I think.  I also researched other water testing companies and it's in my "house book" I am creating.

I have to look at that line one more time to confirm what the inlet is made of.  Pool is full. Got to get the metal detector. I do pretty much know where the old cess pool is-it's now filled with gravel.

Well is probably an old install, built in 1931 with an addition roughly 14 years ago.


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## mwhitnee (Jun 5, 2016)

Line looks like copper to me. And very heavy gauge pipe. Scraped the pipe, steel wool, Brasso. 

Some good info on the pressure tank. I'll call them this week.


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## begreen (Jun 5, 2016)

That's better


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## mwhitnee (Jun 5, 2016)

Yup. Pump install 9 years ago- so not terrible.

Funny I just got an "outside water and sewer line" protection plan in the mail. $13 a month, which I probably won't do.


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## Lake Girl (Jun 5, 2016)

Never hurts to know your system but it is good to hear that pump was installed in 2007.  Still have a bit of time to figure it all out.  Interesting that your in-line is copper though - would have thought they would use pvc pipe as zero corrosion issues.


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## mwhitnee (Jun 6, 2016)

Lake Girl said:


> Never hurts to know your system but it is good to hear that pump was installed in 2007.  Still have a bit of time to figure it all out.  Interesting that your in-line is copper though - would have thought they would use pvc pipe as zero corrosion issues.



Yeah, I was thinking they just replaced the pump and not the line?


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## Lake Girl (Jun 6, 2016)

Distance to intake is interesting ... 140 (148?).  Sounds like a 100' drilled well if you figure 50+/- from the house.  Been out with the metal detector yet?


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## mwhitnee (Jun 6, 2016)

Lake Girl said:


> Distance to intake is interesting ... 140 (148?).  Sounds like a 100' drilled well if you figure 50+/- from the house.  Been out with the metal detector yet?



Gotta get to RI and get the metal detector from the parents.  At least I'm narrowing things down, and I'm kinda happy about the copper line (as opposed to galvanized, wish it was a pvc line).  I'm going to call the well company to see if they have any sketches or anything else useful.  Then I'll spend a day(or hopefully 30 minutes) trying to find it.

Water pressure is fine after all the pool filling.

Edit: Called the well company they are going to try and get info for me.


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## lml999 (Jul 19, 2016)

Dix said:


> Figured out last night while talking with the Dixette, that the pump is 25 years old. I'd say it owes me nothing !! Took them about 3 hours total.



Uh oh. We just moved into a 22 year old house...with a 22 year old well. I learned today that the pump in the basement was replaced 2 years ago. Wonder what else I have in store...


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## Highbeam (Jul 27, 2016)

Lake Girl said:


> If the line is galvanized, you should plan on replacing it.  Likely a fairly old install on the well.  Don't want to panic you but you may want to get water tested ... old lines like that have been known to leech lead into water supply depending on water ph.  With high demand of refilling pool, it will clear out many sediments.  Problem may arise with lower water flows.
> 
> Should be able to locate with metal detector depending on how deep it is buried and should lead you right to the well.  Can you locate where the old "cess pool" is so you have another data point?



Whoa now. First, there is no lead in galvanized iron pipe. The galvanized coating is zinc and this pipe is not a source of lead contamination.

https://www.dcwater.com/waterquality/plumbing/faq.cfm

Don't worry about lead on a residential system unless you have or had actual lead pipes in your system.

Now, copper is still often used outside in the dirt. It comes in rolls and some cities require it. Most have switched to polyethylene now which is a wonderful product for your underground runs. Unlike copper, it can't corrode. Do not use PVC, it is undesirable. It gets brittle and fractures. Also do not use galvanized iron outside of the well.

For wells it is still VERY common to use galvanized iron for the downhole pipe. We still use it. 20 foot sticks of 1.25" pipe with threaded couplers. Shallower wells, less than 250 feet deep or so, we use the same polyethylene flexible pipe as we use in the dirt for the downhole pipe. PVC in inferior for this application as well. 

So even though the pipe from the well to the house is copper, there may be galvanized pipe in the well. All is modern and could have been installed last week.


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## Highbeam (Jul 27, 2016)

lml999 said:


> Uh oh. We just moved into a 22 year old house...with a 22 year old well. I learned today that the pump in the basement was replaced 2 years ago. Wonder what else I have in store...



That's a good thing. You should have 20 years of pump life left! If the pump is IN the basement then it is probably one of those shallow well jet pumps. Cheap and easy to replace.


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## Lake Girl (Jul 27, 2016)

Highbeam said:


> Whoa now. First, there is no lead in galvanized iron pipe. The galvanized coating is zinc and this pipe is not a source of lead contamination.



http://phys.org/news/2015-07-source-galvanized-steel-pipe-coatings.html 
http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/ees.2015.0073?journalCode=ees  Actual study can be downloaded for $51.

From what I understand, over time the galvanization does break down and the allows for leachate containing lead.  Lead is actually used in the galvanization process but "lead-free" options are out there but still contain trace amounts.  Not all galvanization is equal...   Obviously, water sources that had lead service lines at one time have a higher likelihood but the above study also shows it can come from the galvanized pipe itself.


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## Highbeam (Jul 27, 2016)

Lake Girl said:


> http://phys.org/news/2015-07-source-galvanized-steel-pipe-coatings.html
> http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/ees.2015.0073?journalCode=ees  Actual study can be downloaded for $51.
> 
> From what I understand, over time the galvanization does break down and the allows for leachate containing lead.  Lead is actually used in the galvanization process but "lead-free" options are out there but still contain trace amounts.  Not all galvanization is equal...   Obviously, water sources that had lead service lines at one time have a higher likelihood but the above study also shows it can come from the galvanized pipe itself.




Read carefully. Both references call it a potential "long term source" of lead which means it is not significant. Trace amounts of lead may be found in some of the zinc alloy on some of the pipes. This may be a case of internet research and finding agenda bias from questionable sources. 

Doorknobs can have more lead than a galvy pipe.


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## blades (Jul 27, 2016)

in some cases there could be higher trace amounts in the water itself depending on the geological make up.  Same with the Radon craze now.  Course ya never get a real straight answer on what ever they are doing to muncipal water systems.


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## Lake Girl (Jul 28, 2016)

Highbeam, you obviously have your own beliefs but that is why I posted the source article that was published in Environmental Engineering Science. August 2015.  The journal has been around since 2000 and published by Mary Ann Liebert and is the journal of the Association of Environmental Engineering and Science Professors .  Research Gates's impact rating is 1.62.  Not as high as other journals but it is a fairly new journal in comparison.

These same authors published this article on profile sampling on lead in potable water which calls into question the regulatory presumption that the worst lead levels are found on first draw on low flow rates.  Apparently they found higher levels of lead during high flow rates.     http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/es501342j  The Environmental Science & Technology journal is published by the American Chemical Society since 1967 and has a 5.03 impact rating.

Sheldon Masters PhD, one of the authors, works for ESPRI and is involved in this along with Clark:  http://flintwaterstudy.org/about-page/about-us/  Marc Edwards is a prof at Virginia Tech.  Brandi Clark is a postdoctoral fellow at the National Institute of Standards and Technology.  

Interesting read:  https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...o-helped-uncover-the-flint-lead-water-crisis/ 

Their latest findings makes me realize I need to let my kids in Thunder Bay know they have to monitor their water as the city is planning on using additives to change the water ph there to deal with lead level findings 
http://www.liebertpub.com/global/pr...drinking-water-may-have-opposite-effect/1671/

Anyway, in their research, they traced the zinc and cadmium concentrations in the galvanizing coating of their pipe to "finger print" the lead origin ... lead concentrations ranged from non-detectable to 2% and appear to be linked to manufacturer and water ph.  They were able to document the source of lead contamination as the galvanized pipe ...


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## peakbagger (Jul 28, 2016)

Depends on the galvanizing, biomass boilers that burn pallets made with galvanized nails end up having issues with lead. Apparently lead is cheaper than zinc so cheap galvanizing has lead added to it to reduce the cost.


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## mwhitnee (Jul 30, 2016)

Update, still haven't had time to look for the well cover, but the well company suggested using a metal rod to shove into the ground to hear a sound rather than the metal detector...


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## semipro (Aug 2, 2016)

mwhitnee said:


> Update, still haven't had time to look for the well cover, but the well company suggested using a metal rod to shove into the ground to hear a sound rather than the metal detector...


Sounds sort of like how septic system components are located.


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## mwhitnee (Jan 12, 2017)

Update, the previous owner finally told me where the well was.

It is an artesian well, 140 ft deep.  It is about 15-20 feet away from the back of my house, covered with a plastic top and oak boards.  The pump was replaced not too long ago. If this location is correct, the map I had of the location was completely off!!

I will poke around in the spring and find it.  Any thoughts on the artesian well?  I live right across the street from a lake.

I'm so glad he got back to me.  Honestly he wasn't very nice during the sale.  I thought it was somewhere else in the back yard so it was a big help...


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## Lake Girl (Jan 12, 2017)

Distance/time between the sale and now allows a cooling off period.  Possible he didn't want to sell the house but had little choice (variety of reasons) and has now reconciled the sale.  Glad he got back to you


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## peakbagger (Jan 12, 2017)

Now that you have it narrowed down, keep a steady eye out in the area during the spring. Inevitably the well casing is just a bit warmer than the surrounding ground and frequently the trench was backfilled with different soil. Quite often the frost line will be different between the old soil and the new soil and you may see a bump or a depression in the soil during a thaw that will give you a good idea where the line is. If the area is iced up you may see a melt spot that appears directly over the well casing.  

If the well line is plastic, about the only way that works to locate it close to 100% is to cut the line at the house and slide a copper or metal wire down it and then use a radio frequency based detector in what is called conductive mode. If the line is metal, typical pipe locators are used in what is called inductive mode where they blast a signal into the ground at known location with one box and hope the signal follows the metal but it doesn't work with plastic pipes very well it at all. Most well installers laid the cables in the trench and if you can clip onto the ground wire (with the circuit disconnected that works just as well.

I did about five years of summers in college locating water lines for a utility so I got a lot of experience seeing what worked and what didn't. The new detectors have fancy displays and all sorts of options but they really work the same way as our M-scope which is still sold http://www.kellycodetectors.com/catalog/tw-6-pipe-cable-locator. We frequently got asked to trace sewer lines to septic systems and the only way it worked was to slide some metal down the pipe. The other method is if you know a surveyor ask to use his metal detector. They use a very sensitive detector for finding survey pins. A well casing has a significant magnetic signature that extends well past the actual end of casing. A good metal detector can usually pick up something like a casing four or five feet deep.

Unless you have a hill behind your house odds are the well level is at the same level as the water in the lake. Nothing wrong with that but generally a real artesian well is tapped into an underground aquifer that is under pressure so that the water flows to the surface of the well. I have seen a few wells over the years like this where the area looks dry and level but when they drill the well there is steady flow pouring out of it. There is very impressive one in Stowe VT that flows year round and forms some real interesting ice formations


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## Highbeam (Jan 13, 2017)

A lot of people think they have Cartesian wells.


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## semipro (Jan 14, 2017)

Highbeam said:


> A lot of people think they have Cartesian wells.


And
- the meaning of "artesian" is confused in the vernacular.  Water does not necessarily have to come come out the top of the pipe to be artesian. The level the water comes to naturally just has to be above the top of the aquifer formation it came from. 
- a well which once was artesian may longer be due to local groundwater removal

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artesian_aquifer


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## jeanw (Jan 15, 2017)

heck they werent recorded back when this place was built.. Original owners deceased.prob original drillers dead too
 so we paid to have company come out and show us. 
hubby got talked into a submersible pump.and they measured for us and took out old piping and another one that was there too...new piping installed too... but to house piping stayed
 Heck with the old one ,PUMP I knew it was working. I could hear it.
 it only had a small pressure tank too. like I mentioned everything in this place CHEAPSKATES....
      DA next door replaced his septic piping with that cheap corrugated 4inch black pipe with a "stocking on"
But what can you expect from a neighbor that had an old toilet sitting near end of his driveway.? and  BIG pile of trash  and trash bags waiting to be burned. or buried... But least he was a nice young man....
  I hope that when new septic was replaced here(looks like)  some Jacklegs didnt use the same thing...
thanks all


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## mwhitnee (Jan 17, 2017)

peakbagger said:


> Now that you have it narrowed down, keep a steady eye out in the area during the spring. Inevitably the well casing is just a bit warmer than the surrounding ground and frequently the trench was backfilled with different soil. Quite often the frost line will be different between the old soil and the new soil and you may see a bump or a depression in the soil during a thaw that will give you a good idea where the line is. If the area is iced up you may see a melt spot that appears directly over the well casing.
> 
> If the well line is plastic, about the only way that works to locate it close to 100% is to cut the line at the house and slide a copper or metal wire down it and then use a radio frequency based detector in what is called conductive mode. If the line is metal, typical pipe locators are used in what is called inductive mode where they blast a signal into the ground at known location with one box and hope the signal follows the metal but it doesn't work with plastic pipes very well it at all. Most well installers laid the cables in the trench and if you can clip onto the ground wire (with the circuit disconnected that works just as well.
> 
> ...




Thanks so much for all the info, I am really interested in finding and uncovering it.  I'll take pictures.


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