# Genetically altered Tree



## n3pro (Oct 1, 2010)

http://e360.yale.edu/digest/genetically_altered_trees_could_store_billions_of_tons_of_carbon/2620/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+YaleEnvironment360+(Yale+Environment+360)

that don't sound safe to burn.  I'm getting a little concerned about all this genetically modified stuff.


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## Adios Pantalones (Oct 1, 2010)

There was a thread in the woodshed about an engineered tree that grows on marginal land, grows at a staggering rate (fairly unbelievable production), and is sterile.  I don't see an issue with burning such a tree (why would it not be safe to burn), but do worry about genetic crosses and introducing genes where they don't belong by other means.


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## Delta-T (Oct 1, 2010)

Adios Pantalones said:
			
		

> There was a thread in the woodshed about an engineered tree that grows on marginal land, grows at a staggering rate (fairly unbelievable production), and is sterile.  I don't see an issue with burning such a tree (why would it not be safe to burn), but do worry about genetic crosses and introducing genes where they don't belong by other means.



what, like africanized honey bees? no problems there.


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## vvvv (Oct 1, 2010)

seen the non-GM carp taking over the Miss. river?


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## btuser (Oct 2, 2010)

I wouldn't mind seeing chestnuts come back to the Eastern forests.  No pollen?


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## vvvv (Oct 2, 2010)

btuser said:
			
		

> I wouldn't mind seeing chestnuts come back to the Eastern forests.  No pollen?


bees been diminshing lately


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## btuser (Oct 2, 2010)

Bees are fine.  Commercial beekeeping is in trouble because of a problem called (don't quote me) lost hive syndrome, which seems to affect the bee's ability to find the hive so they don't come back.  They think its because of a mite.  That and a number of different issues that come from over-working the hives.  

Domestic bees/pollinators aren't part of this.


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## mesuno (Oct 14, 2010)

btuser said:
			
		

> Bees are fine.  Commercial beekeeping is in trouble because of a problem called (don't quote me) lost hive syndrome, which seems to affect the bee's ability to find the hive so they don't come back.  They think its because of a mite.  That and a number of different issues that come from over-working the hives.
> 
> Domestic bees/pollinators aren't part of this.



I think you are thinking of sudden hive collapse - otherwise healthy hives simply collapse and die out often within a week. Lots of theories for it, including contributions from the varroa mite. One big suspect is industrial agriculture - pesticide spraying of crops such as canola which bees flock to.


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## Adios Pantalones (Oct 14, 2010)

btuser said:
			
		

> Bees are fine.  Commercial beekeeping is in trouble because of a problem called (don't quote me) lost hive syndrome, which seems to affect the bee's ability to find the hive so they don't come back.  They think its because of a mite.  That and a number of different issues that come from over-working the hives.
> 
> Domestic bees/pollinators aren't part of this.



Recent evidence (report in the last few weeks) points to a combination of a virus and a fungus, but there's some controversy about the study's funding and therefore objectivity


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## ihookem (Oct 17, 2010)

Genetically altered hybrids are ok I think . I have hybrid poplars and have been around for a long time. I cut a branch off one of my hybrids in the spring of 2009. I gave it lots of water last year and lots of chicken poop with bluegill heads. It was 2 ' when I planted it. By fall of 2009 it was 5 1/2 ' tall. This year I did the same but it had so much rain I only watered it a few times. I gave it a bunch of chicken poop every week till August. I measured it last week to find it grew 13' 1" just this year. I had nothing there 1 1/2 years ago, now I have a tree 18 1/2' tall with a 4 " trunk.  This could really help against erosion and take the place of some pulp demand when it's needed. It can also make decent studs for building and even painted mill work. It makes poor firewood but I can grow it on an acre in my back yard and have all the firewood I need in 10 years. After cutting down the tree, a bunch of sucker shoots come up off the trunk, never having to replant. You can even expand for free by cutting off a branch  a few feet long and stick it in the ground. Should make good hedgegroves, yard trees. If this bio mass generators take off the whole tree can be used, just chip it along with the leaves too. I am going to plant a whole bunch more on some sandy soil that grows very little to make shade so other trees don't die. It might work. They love water sun and nitrogen. Also, about the billions of tons of carbon it releases when burned, yes but it only releases what it sucked up when the tree was growing. Trees don't release any more carbon than what it absorbs, it only stores it till it dies. Just a thought.


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## Wood Duck (Oct 28, 2010)

I don't think planting hybrid poplars as shade for other tree seedlings is the best way to establish shade trees. Poplars have a fairly aggressive root system that will compete with seedlings for water, and in general, trees transpire far more water from the soil than sunshine would evaporate. In other words, the soil beneath trees will be drier during the growing season than unshaded soil will be. If you want shade trees, I'd just pick a native species for your region and water deeply and regularly for the first summer or two until they are established. I like oaks, which start slowly but end up growing about as fast as other shade trees (of course not as fast as hybrid poplars). if you want a nurse tree, I recommend Black Locust, which grow fast, cast a light shade, fix nitrogen, and make great firewood when you are ready to get rid of them. Black Locust doesn't grow as fast as hybrid poplar, that is for sure, but offers other benefits.

i think the problem with burning hybrid poplars is the quality of the wood - it is light and burns much faster than other wood, so is a hassle in the wood stove.


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## midwestcoast (Oct 28, 2010)

Hybrids of any sort are not the same as Genetically Modified Organisms. Humans have been crossbreeding domestic anilmals, livestock, agricultural & ornamental plants since forever. That's why you can buy bananas without seeds or a dog that will grow to weigh 8lbs or 108lbs.  
Genetic modification is the insertion of genes from one species into a totally different species.
Personally I think burning all GMO's, and all the seed may be the safest thing we could possibly do with them


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## Highbeam (Oct 28, 2010)

Wood Duck said:
			
		

> in general, trees transpire far more water from the soil than sunshine would evaporate. In other words, the soil beneath trees will be drier during the growing season than unshaded soil will be.
> 
> i think the problem with burning hybrid poplars is the quality of the wood - it is light and burns much faster than other wood, so is a hassle in the wood stove.



In my experience this is very false. Earth is wetter when underneath the forest canopy. Once you log and grub the land, the ground will be much drier given exposure to wind and sun. I have managed to eliminate wet areas by removing the forest above them. 

Per lb, the poplar is just as good as oak and yes, the poplar hybrids are less dense than oak but not as much as you would think. I have burned many cords of the cottonwood and poplar and found them to be fine woods to burn.


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## Delta-T (Oct 28, 2010)

Highbeam said:
			
		

> Wood Duck said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



to support what highbeam says, just look at the forests around Kilimanjaro. They cut the big trees to sell on the black market. Just removing 1 tree causes a 15' death zone because the soil can no longer resist the sun and wind. Hard to believe that 1 tree allows dozens of other plants to survive. Might be different with different root structures in different places though.


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## Wood Duck (Nov 24, 2010)

Try planting seedlings under a hybrid poplar and identical seedlings nearby in the sun. You'll find the ones in the shade are under much more water stress during the summer. There is no question that trees do protect the soil, but they also use tons of water. Hybrid poplars tend to have a very dense, shallow root system that will prevent many other types of plants from growing beneath.


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## kinshipknight (Nov 29, 2010)

Yeah, I have no real problem at all with hybridization. But GMO REALLY makes me uncomfortable, especially the thought of introducing it into nature.


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