# In the days before  chainsaws...



## tonelover (Jan 29, 2013)

Maybe you guys have seen these before, but I think they make pretty much all of us look like lightweights.


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## Ralphie Boy (Jan 29, 2013)

Ain't too many left like that.... trees, saws, men, women


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## schlot (Jan 29, 2013)

Seen them but still amazing.


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## willyswagon (Jan 29, 2013)

There are stories of the original Acadians settling PEI(1740's), where it took a full year for a father and his 4 sons to process 7 trees in order to be able to seed an area out. All the while his wife and daughters gathered berries, hunted small animals, and fished to feed the family.
What a miserable existance!


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## Woody Stover (Jan 29, 2013)

Pretty sure that tree would be a lifetime supply of wood for me. 
What's going on in that second pic? Did it hang up, or did it take so long to fall that they had time to hop up on the stump and pose for a picture?


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## NH_Wood (Jan 29, 2013)

Absolutely amazing! Cheers!


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## Paulywalnut (Jan 29, 2013)

Its pine though! Good shoulder wood.. for a lifetime lol.


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## Mr A (Jan 29, 2013)

Paulywalnut said:


> Its pine though! Good shoulder wood.. for a lifetime lol.


 Probably Sequoia(Giant Redwood), I've never seen a pine that big.


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## Paulywalnut (Jan 29, 2013)

Mr A said:


> Probably Sequoia(Giant Redwood), I've never seen a pine that big.


Yea I always thought it was in the pine family.


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## Mr A (Jan 29, 2013)

Wikipedia says they are related to cypress, which I don't know if related to pine. Probably not, these trees are very unique. They are huge! You can drive through them!
http://redwoods.info/showrecord.asp?id=2464
A lot of old buildings in California are built from these trees. The wood is rot and decay resistant.
In Yosemite, Wawona tree was 26 ft in diameter! http://www.nps.gov/seki/faqtunnel.htm
I bet that tree could provide enough lumber to build a whole house, with plenty left over to keep it warm. here is is a link to more awesome pics- http://www.logcabindirectory.com/blog/before-chainsaws-logging-industry The logging industry no longer cuts these old growth trees, I doubt there is any machinery that can do it. They did it because they could, and wanted to prove it. What a sin to cut a tree that sprouted before Christ. In California, Redwood is very available. It just took over 100 years to figure out it grows fast enough to harvest lumber every 20 years. General Sherman Tree, in Sequoia National Park is is thought to be over 2200 years old.
 They got it down, but how did they mill it?


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## BobUrban (Jan 30, 2013)

Woddy Stover - isn't it obvious!!  OSHA and the wood cutters union required them to take a 15minute break after every 2hrs work.  They are just taking their morning break after cutting the notch.  They will finish the back cut before lunch. 

I love these old pics of logging and hunting camps.  When traveling in northeren Michigan and the UP the dinners always have really cool "old time" photos on the walls.  Good stuff here - if others have pics like this please share!!


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## Jags (Jan 30, 2013)

Hmmm...still trying to figure out the logic of such a large notch. There HAS to be a reason, or they would not spend the time to do it...but I can't figure it out.

Cool pics.

Edit: I think I got it.  The notch is basically the same height as the first cut is long.  This will allow the tree to hit flat, versus a barber chair bounce that could break the tree up.  That is my bet anyhow.


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## AJS56 (Jan 30, 2013)

tonelover said:


> Maybe you guys have seen these before, but I think they make pretty much all of us look like lightweights.


 
I had not seen these, but they are amazing indeed.  The "good old days" when men were men...


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## AJS56 (Jan 30, 2013)

Jags said:


> This will allow the tree to hit flat, versus a barber chair bounce that could break the tree up. That is my bet anyhow.​


 
That seems right to me also Jags.  Can you imagine this thing barberchairing?  It could wipe out a small village!


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## Jags (Jan 30, 2013)

AJS56 said:


> That seems right to me also Jags. Can you imagine this thing barberchairing? It could wipe out a small village!


 
The amount of energy that thing would have would probably register on seismographs for miles around.


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## Paulywalnut (Jan 30, 2013)

How many redwood Adirondack chairs could you make from that giant?


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## BEConklin (Jan 30, 2013)

Even if I were able - I don't know if I could bring myself to kill a tree that old.


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## Shane N (Jan 30, 2013)

It is amazing how little decay is in those trunks. I know redwoods don't rot easily, but it still seems really impressive that it is essentially solid throughout.


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## Gasifier (Jan 30, 2013)

Too bad so many were cut. If you ever get a chance, watch the series National Parks, America's Best Idea. They show how money can drive us to do things we should not necessarily do. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. Some is necessary, but in many areas if people had not stopped it, some people would have cut down every last tree.  And then said, "Oh, aaaa, maybe we should not have done that."  In many areas they did just that.


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## BEConklin (Jan 30, 2013)

Gasifier said:


> Too bad so many were cut. If you ever get a chance, watch the series National Parks, America's Best Idea. They show how money can drive us to do things we should not necessarily do. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. Some is necessary, but in many areas if people had not stopped it, some people would have cut down every last tree. And then said, "Oh, aaaa, maybe we should not have done that." In many areas they did just that.


Yeah - I'm thinking a redwood that big probably took thousands of years to grow.


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## xman23 (Jan 30, 2013)

When I was a kid (not to long ago) dad had a few of those 2 man saws. We didn't have a chain saw. He took down and bucked up a few 2 ft trees. I was on the other side. Amazing how fast you could cut thru a log. Just a huge workout. In those pictures there must be some power device pulling the saw thru trees like that.


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## ScotO (Jan 30, 2013)

Imagine this skid of logs going DOWNHILL.....wouldn't be much left of 'dem horses, eh?






back when the men were men, no doubt about it......
Note the horses on TOP of the log in the last picture......


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## Thistle (Jan 30, 2013)

I still have two 6ft 2-man,two 4ft 2 man,two 3 ft 1 man & one 4ft 1 man (that one is 1930's NOS Disston with original factory grind from  rural old hardware store in upper NYS).I used the shorter ones once in a while when in early-mid 20's,along with 5lb Plumb double bit axe to drop several trees.Those days are over,I'm not near that ambitious anymore.... 

If you're looking for more vintage PNW logging photos- Ralph Andrews published a series of 5 books from 1954 to 1963 with text & hundreds of B & W pics taken from the 1880's to the early 1930's of the region,including Northern California. 

They are all still being printed today,I have all 5 with 3 of them being first editions.Easy to find,Amazon & others routinely have them in stock.
http://www.amazon.com/Timber-Toil-T...&qid=1359571855&sr=1-4&keywords=ralph+andrews  Here's 1 of them.


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## WoodpileOCD (Jan 30, 2013)

Nothing remotely resembling this but I spent many, many hours on one end of a two man crosscut saw when I was young. My dad supplemented our heat with wood and some coal and I, being the eldest, was his primary helper. Crosscut saws, sledges, wedges and mauls. That's what we had.

SOB bought a chainsaw AFTER I moved out. 

Looking back though, I wouldn't trade all the time we spent together and the work ethic he gave me for anything in the world.


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## billb3 (Jan 30, 2013)

Brother and I cut firewood with a two man saw on a saw horse when we were kids.
Chopped  down cedar trees for a fence by hand, too. Walked 'em home on our shoulders.


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## Mr A (Jan 31, 2013)

I've got a 40" timber saw. I can't find anyone to sharpen it, another lost craft. No one local, I'd have to ship it out of state. I want to use it on those big oak logs pictured in my "Got it Home" post. I am anxious to see how fast it can cut when sharpened. I have sharp hand saws in my carpenter tool box and they do a quick job when I don't have a saw and cord rolled out and need a quick cut or two.


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## Gasifier (Jan 31, 2013)

You can buy new ones here. One and two man crosscut saws.

http://www.woodcraft.com/PRODUCT/20...ode=10INGOPB&gclid=CPTn06q9krUCFUqf4AodgVwAig

I don't know if they will hold up like the old ones. German made apparently.


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## Thistle (Jan 31, 2013)

Gasifier said:


> You can buy new ones here. One and two man crosscut saws.
> 
> http://www.woodcraft.com/PRODUCT/20...ode=10INGOPB&gclid=CPTn06q9krUCFUqf4AodgVwAig
> 
> I don't know if they will hold up like the old ones. German made apparently.


 

Traditional Woodworker & a couple other retailers have them also.Pretty good,but the steel isnt as good as the older ones.Filing the saws when needed occasionally isnt difficult,but when the teeth need jointing (running flat file over the points to make them even length) after several previous sharpenings or to correct misshaped teeth) & setting (bending points outwards with saw set just a little for clearance) is much more tedious & time-consuming.

Surface rust,mild pitting isnt normally a problem,but heavy deep pitting can be.Some teeth are brittle with age,they will break off instead of bending when setting.


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## schlot (Jan 31, 2013)

Thistle said:


> I still have two 6ft 2-man,two 4ft 2 man,two 3 ft 1 man & one 4ft 1 man (that one is 1930's NOS Disston with original factory grind from rural old hardware store in upper NYS).I used the shorter ones once in a while when in early-mid 20's,along with 5lb Plumb double bit axe to drop several trees.Those days are over,I'm not near that ambitious anymore....
> 
> If you're looking for more vintage PNW logging photos- Ralph Andrews published a series of 5 books from 1954 to 1963 with text & hundreds of B & W pics taken from the 1880's to the early 1930's of the region,including Northern California.
> 
> ...


 
I thought about buying  a two man saw someday for a buddy of mine in Wisconsin....but then he would expect me to come up and help! LOL.

If you ever want to "fire" one of those two man saws up again, let me know I'd like to give it a shot.


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## Thistle (Jan 31, 2013)

schlot said:


> I thought about buying a two man saw someday for a buddy of mine in Wisconsin....but then he would expect me to come up and help! LOL.
> 
> If you ever want to "fire" one of those two man saws up again, let me know I'd like to give it a shot.


 

LOL sure no problem.Years ago when I just started antique tool collecting they were still very common around here at farm/estate auctions,flea markets & the occasional garage sale.Pretty cheap in decent condition too.Havent been auctioning for several years but have noticed that the supply dried up for the most part.What I did see remaining was much more expensive ($30-40 minimum not uncommon) and condition wasnt any better.

These saws were still being made new on a large scale as recently as the late '50's.Then disappeared  for several years after that.With a resurgance in traditional craft & techniques they started reappearing in the 1980's.


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## fabsroman (Jan 31, 2013)

Gasifier said:


> Too bad so many were cut. If you ever get a chance, watch the series National Parks, America's Best Idea. They show how money can drive us to do things we should not necessarily do. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. Some is necessary, but in many areas if people had not stopped it, some people would have cut down every last tree. And then said, "Oh, aaaa, maybe we should not have done that." In many areas they did just that.


 
Greed ruins most good things. Money is the root of all evil.

The same thing happened with the bison and waterfowl. They killed tons of them just because they could and they did not have to pay for the resource. Same thing is happening today with shark finning. The hard part is separating those that do it to actually put food on the table and those that do it to put another high dollar car in the garage. I can sort of understand it when you HAVE to do it just to live and there is no other option. Hard to understand it otherwise.


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## tbuff (Jan 31, 2013)

WoodpileOCD said:


> Nothing remotely resembling this but I spent many, many hours on one end of a two man crosscut saw when I was young. My dad supplemented our heat with wood and some coal and I, being the eldest, was his primary helper. Crosscut saws, sledges, wedges and mauls. That's what we had.
> 
> SOB bought a chainsaw AFTER I moved out.
> 
> Looking back though, I wouldn't trade all the time we spent together and the work ethic he gave me for anything in the world.


 
My grandfather used to make me cut limbs off with his small bow saw up on a 40' ladder... once they fell, he'd start his chainsaw and finish it up. 

He used the same tactic with flat car tires, he'd grab the hand pump off the top of the air compressor and say, "here ya go, put air in that tire."


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## schlot (Jan 31, 2013)

fabsroman said:


> Greed ruins most good things. Money is the root of all evil.
> 
> The same thing happened with the bison and waterfowl. They killed tons of them just because they could and they did not have to pay for the resource. Same thing is happening today with shark finning. The hard part is separating those that do it to actually put food on the table and those that do it to put another high dollar car in the garage. I can sort of understand it when you HAVE to do it just to live and there is no other option. Hard to understand it otherwise.


 
Money isn't the root of ALL evil, but it is a major one.

We have to be careful in keeping things in perspective when we look back on people of an much earlier ear. It's too easy for us to sit back and judge those in the past harshly, as we enjoy the warmth of a modern house with running water, sewer, cable tv and wireless internet access.

Yes, there was excess in that era, as there always has been and always will be. But survival a 100 years ago was just that....survival. Whereas now, most of us are "blessed" to face burdens of making sure we have enough money for the cable tv, internet or boat payment.

I just thank God for Teddy Roosevelt and his foresight.


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## fabsroman (Jan 31, 2013)

schlot said:


> Money isn't the root of ALL evil, but it is a major one.
> 
> We have to be careful in keeping things in perspective when we look back on people of an much earlier ear. It's too easy for us to sit back and judge those in the past harshly, as we enjoy the warmth of a modern house with running water, sewer, cable tv and wireless internet access.
> 
> ...


 
Yeah, I agree. That is why I wrote "The hard part is separating those that do it to actually put food on the table and those that do it to put another high dollar [horse] in the [barn]." Edited it to apply to the correct era.

Also, let's not think that people nowadays all have cable TV, internet, and a boat payment. I have plenty of clients that lost their houses and/or declared bankruptcy and others that are struggling to stay afloat. Don't make it sound like people of today's era have it easy. There are plenty of people out there struggling to merely survive, and tons of children go hungry every day in today's day and age with internet, cable TV, boats, trains, planes, and automobiles.

16.7 million children in the US lived in food insecure homes in 2011.

20% of children in America lived in food insecure homes in 2010.

http://feedingamerica.org/hunger-in-america/hunger-facts/child-hunger-facts.aspx

Nowadays, the question is how many people resort to selling drugs and other crimes just to put food on the table.


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## Gasifier (Jan 31, 2013)

I understand what you are saying. But there are still those out there that would return to cutting every tree down if the laws were not in place to stop them anymore. And it wouldn't necessarily be because of survival. Greed will do strange things to people.


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## schlot (Jan 31, 2013)

fabsroman said:


> Yeah, I agree. That is why I wrote "The hard part is separating those that do it to actually put food on the table and those that do it to put another high dollar [horse] in the [barn]." Edited it to apply to the correct era.
> 
> Also, let's not think that people nowadays all have cable TV, internet, and a boat payment. I have plenty of clients that lost their houses and/or declared bankruptcy and others that are struggling to stay afloat. Don't make it sound like people of today's era have it easy. There are plenty of people out there struggling to merely survive, and tons of children go hungry every day in today's day and age with internet, cable TV, boats, trains, planes, and automobiles.
> 
> ...


 

I understand your point. There is always hardships,and obviously hunger is real, but I hope you agree with so much opportunity for assistance as compared to years gone by we do have it easier.

On average we have it so much better than those pictured. We have a lot more leisure time, even though we may not all have the "extras" to use during that free time.

Now, I've sidetracked this thread too much so I will stop and let it get back on track.


I would love to have seen how long it took to fall one of those trees with a saw like that. Amazing amount of effort it must have taken.


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## tsquini (Jan 31, 2013)

Scotty Overkill said:


> .


The good old days, when cutting down 1 tree employed over 50 people.


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## ScotO (Jan 31, 2013)

Mr A said:


> I've got a 40" timber saw. I can't find anyone to sharpen it, another lost craft. No one local, I'd have to ship it out of state. I want to use it on those big oak logs pictured in my "Got it Home" post. I am anxious to see how fast it can cut when sharpened. I have sharp hand saws in my carpenter tool box and they do a quick job when I don't have a saw and cord rolled out and need a quick cut or two.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You may want to spray some light oil on the sides of that cross cutter and hit it with some emery cloth, And even a buffer with polishing compound, before you use it.  The rust on the sides will create a lot of heat and drag, it'll cut better if you clean it up.  I have a 6' two man jobber that belonged to my great-great grandfather, that I'd like to fell a tree with someday.  I just have to find somebody nutty enough to do it with me!


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## Thistle (Feb 1, 2013)

Scotty Overkill said:


> You may want to spray some light oil on the sides of that cross cutter and hit it with some emery cloth, And even a buffer with polishing compound, before you use it. The rust on the sides will create a lot of heat and drag, it'll cut better if you clean it up. I have a 6' two man jobber that belonged to my great-great grandfather, that I'd like to fell a tree with someday. I just have to find somebody nutty enough to do it with me!


 

Fine Scotch Brite (purple) pad or #2 steel wool w/ WD 40 works wonders. If the saw has part or all of its original company logo & etching,its somewhat valuable or 'sentimental' DO NOT use lemon juice or vinegar! Dont ask me how I know this! Used lemon juice & white Scotch Brite (their finest),let the juice set for just a few seconds & sure enough....it took the rust off alright,along with over 1/2 of what original etch remaining...

Too many tool sellers/dealers know NOTHING about gentle cleaning,mainly those dealing in 'general antiques or old stuff' They take the lazy man's route,attack it with strong abrasives,turning  decades old patina of dark brass/bronze to a bright blinding new shine like chrome plating.

Back to the saw.....I'd help you out with that,Scott.I'm always up for a challenge,against my better judgement most times.Am a bit 'rusty' using one of those,but it comes back to you quickly


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## schlot (Feb 1, 2013)

I found a video on sharpening the cross cut saw. Kind of hard to watch with the camera jumping around so much, but seems like he knows what he is doing.


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## Shane N (Feb 1, 2013)

tsquini said:


> The good old days, when cutting down 1 tree employed over 50 people.


 

And a bunch of horses... I *just* noticed the team of horses on the *top *of the tree.


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## BobUrban (Feb 1, 2013)

Someone still makes the crosscut saws because they use them in the Stihl timber cut competitions.  I like the single man saws with the shark mouth on the end.  I bet they cost as much as some chainsaws!!


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