# Letter from National Fuel



## pharmsaler (Jan 8, 2012)

So I got a letter from our natural gas supplier yesterday..it went on to explain that my gas consumption is less than half of what I used last December, it went on to say they are going to send out an inspector and inspect the meter.  If they noticed any tampering of the meter I could be in serious trouble. They recommended that I call customer service to set up the time for the inspector to visit my home.........SO I called the nasty lady at national fuel and explained that I was now using my fireplace insert more frequently and that I had turned my thermostat to less than 65 degrees.  She put me on hold for a while then returned....She ran it by her supervisor and said there is no way a fireplace insert can reduce my gas consumption by that much...I explained that my insert is highly efficient and produces a large amount of heat and on and on and on....she put me on hold again....after a half hour on the phone they are still sending someone out to inspect the meter....I told the wench to also check out my wood pile in the back yard and then hung up on her!!


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## rdust (Jan 8, 2012)

Many have had it happen!  Good job!


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## fireview2788 (Jan 8, 2012)

Don't blame her, she's just doing her job as she proved by having to talk with someone else.  Enjoy watching them come out, scratch their heads and then leave.  Then think about the guys in charge crying as another customer has decided to take care of themselves!

fv


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## Scott2373 (Jan 8, 2012)

Yeah, they don't appreciate you trying to save money, because you're not giving it to them! F*&$ 'em! If it had been me that lady called, I would have read her the riot act and I would NOT have been very nice about it! I would not have been pleased AT ALL if I had gotten an accusatory letter threatening me with legal actions because my gas bill dropped! I deplore ignorance and insolence! I'm gonna stop now before I really get myself worked up, lol Sounds like you handled the situation much better than I would have! :D


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## JotulOwner (Jan 8, 2012)

Yeah , the heating fuel companies have a funny reaction to people who don't consume large quantities of their product. My oil company dropped me as a customer. I got a new oil company. They dropped me too. Both said I didn't use enough oil to make it worth their while. They will still deliver (if I call them) at their standard high price, but no service contract (hourly service charge only). So, why would I need them? I can just call a bulk carrier for deliveries and a burner service company to maintain the system (which doesn't get too much wear and tear to begin with).


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## BrotherBart (Jan 8, 2012)

My electric meter gets changed every three or four years. In fact it is due again. Last time they had to walk behind 13 cord of split stacked oak to get to it. But it isn't their job to see why usage went down unless the meter shows signs of tampering. The right of way supervisor says they do the same thing at his house. And he works for them. He heats with a wood boiler.


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## Ehouse (Jan 8, 2012)

Watch out for two things.  They may try to charge you more for using less gas.  They may try to place the burden of proof on you by threatening or charging you with a violation even with no evidence, just because they can.

Last year I was paying $650 a Mo. for propane.  I installed a small woodstove this fall.  This Mo. my bill is $000.  Be prepared to fight.

Ehouse


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## SlyFerret (Jan 8, 2012)

My propane company wanted to charge me a rental fee of $150/year on my 500 gallon tank because I wasn't using enough gas.

I told them to come get the tank and refund me for the unused propane.  Once it was gone, I called a few other suppliers and selected one of them to deliver a 120 gallon tank.  As long as I have them top off the tank once a year (I used ~50 gallons last year), they don't charge me a fee.

-SF


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## Adkjake (Jan 8, 2012)

I'm fortunate that I do business with two locally owned family businesses. I have an oil fired boiler to back up the woodstove and an oil fired hot water heater. When I bought the house 2+ years ago, I asked the seller who he used for fuel oil delivery. He told me he uses a small mom and pop fuel oil supplier, that's all they do, supply fuel.  Since it is Nov. 2009 and there is only about 1/4 tank, I call the business, and ask for a delivery. I get the owner on the phone, who also does most of the deliveries, introduce myself,tell him what house I bought and want to buy from him. He says, "oh yeah, I know that house, doesn't use hardly any oil at all. Just tell me when you need oil, 150 gal min delivery, and I'll be there within 48 hours. I'll start an account for you and if you aren't there when I deliver, I'll bill you, or leave the invoice in the mailbox and send a check"  I'm blown away, OK sure, but if you come in the next few days, I'll likely be around. He tells me he's in my area on Thurs, and should be there around 10am. Sure enough, he shows up at 10:15, nice young man, fills the tank, looks at my wood stacks and says, see you next summer or fall! As he's rolling up the hose, I ask him who I should call for a furnace cleaning and tune up. He recommends another local small business. 

I call them, they tell me, we have a fall special on, tune up and clean for $100,  make an appointment. They come when promised, do a great job, guy checks out and cleans the hot water heater at no charge. They do the same in 2010. This year, after servicing the boiler and hot water heater, the tech says, "for the amount of use you give them, call me every other year" 

Tell him thanks for that, but you know what, just for that, I'll call him every year for the $100 tune up special, small price to pay for loyalty, if the furnace or hot water fails, I want them to know, I'm a good customer.

Understand the original poster has no choice but to deal with National Fuel Gas. but support your local businesses when you can. Some big corporations are customer friendly and good community neighbors, others not so much


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## Oldhippie (Jan 8, 2012)

Makes me wonder if pirating gas is a common practice.. that they seem pretty certain your stealing it is amazing. ...and disturbing.


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## woodsmaster (Jan 8, 2012)

My power went out a couple weeks ago so I called the co-op, the lady on the phone says we've had some other reports in the area of outages. An houre or two later the power comes on and about 5 min later a linemans truck stopes and a guy walkes up to the meter checks it out and leaves. I'm using less than half the power I was a year ago and they must of thouht I was
stealing some. I doubt they stoped at eveyones house to make sure the power was on. The man said a squiral
a few miles away caused the outage.


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## Regency139 (Jan 8, 2012)

I enjoy hearing stories like this.  Good job!


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## remkel (Jan 8, 2012)

Damn the man!

I probably would have started laughing at the woman on the phone.

Be certain to be home when they come to visit- if they propose changing the meter, I would insist that they prove that the meter has been properly calibrated before affixing it to your line. Would not want there to be any chance of false accusations


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## welderboyjk (Jan 8, 2012)

As Ehouse stated be prepared to fight. Case in point friend form work bought a house. Didn't do much the first year or two he lived there. Put in new windows, added insulation, got new appliances, etc. Consumers Power around here does both electric AND nat. gas. They came out and said his meter was faulty. Charged him for back usage. The Michigan Public Service Commission could not even help him. 
They WILL screw you coming AND going..... BE CAREFUL !!


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## LLigetfa (Jan 8, 2012)

Gas company changed out my meter recently.  I've been burning wood in this home every year since the day I built in in '98.  I still run the furnace a few minutes a day for the humidifier.  I also cook with gas and my water heater is gas so my gas bill averages $2 a day, a little higher in the shoulder seasons when it's too mild to burn wood.  When I look at a graph of my consumption, it resembles the Golden Gate Bridge or the old Cisco Systems logo.


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## HotCoals (Jan 8, 2012)

welderboyjk said:
			
		

> As Ehouse stated be prepared to fight. Case in point friend form work bought a house. Didn't do much the first year or two he lived there. Put in new windows, added insulation, got new appliances, etc. Consumers Power around here does both electric AND nat. gas. They came out and said his meter was faulty. Charged him for back usage. The Michigan Public Service Commission could not even help him.
> They WILL screw you coming AND going..... BE CAREFUL !!



Man..now that would set me off!


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## Lighting Up (Jan 8, 2012)

Pound your chest man!...that's what wood burning is all about and someone noticed.  Oh, remind them you were warmer too with the wood heat.
md


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## pen (Jan 8, 2012)

I hope they replace the meter and end with that.  Your consumption is your consumption.  Are you on a budget plan with them or something?  Unless you signed something with them that guarantees you'll use so many cubic feet per year, I can't see how they can come after you.  But, I've been surprised before.

pen


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## certified106 (Jan 9, 2012)

I wouldn't worry about it to much they gotta do what they gotta do and chances are they will check of change the meter and that will be the end of it. Years ago when we quit milking cows on the dairy farm I grew up on the came and changed the meter due to our electric consumption dropping so much in one month.

I wish they would come pick up my propane tank. I disconnected the line close to 6 years ago and told them to come pick it up and they never have. Heck they kept sending me a bill for a tank rental fee and for the first three years I called them and told em to shove it where the sun doesn't shine and by the way come pick up your tank. The last three years I have just thrown the bill in the trash and never called. One of these days I am gonna shove it over the hill and if they ever want it they can retrieve it from the ravine.


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## Ehouse (Jan 9, 2012)

Adkjeke,
That's the way it is here, (just south of the Mohawk valley) nice people to deal with and reasonable.  Reward them if they please you.

Remkel, 
Be nice to the lady on the phone, she has more power than you can imagine.  Stick it to the man, not the phone lady.  Be certain to be home when they visit and make the appointment at your convenience, not theirs.  They work for you.

Welderboyjk,
 Be careful, but be  assertive, proactive:  Fight!

Certified 106
No, No, No.  you shove their F#n tank out to road side with their name up and if there's no decal put up a sign.  I've done it. they'll be there in a week.


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## ironpony (Jan 9, 2012)

I recieved a similar letter last year
only burned 100 gals in the previous five years
hehehehe......................
told them come and get the tank
but it is still here


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## Jack Straw (Jan 9, 2012)

I wonder if you would get a phone call if your usage suddenly increased say 3 times more than normal?


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## PapaDave (Jan 9, 2012)

That call would be congratulatory. 
"Congrats, due to your high usage, you'll receive a free manually operated can opener! 
Thank you for your patronage".


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## Adios Pantalones (Jan 9, 2012)

Make sure to follow up and tell us what happens in this story.


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## ScotO (Jan 9, 2012)

Same thing happened to me several years ago for the same reason.......so I put HER on hold.......


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## billb3 (Jan 9, 2012)

I replaced a fridge and my electric bill went from $85 to $30 / month.
Then started replacing everything that would save a penny or more and got it down to $18.00 one month (June or July).
Got a new electric meter.



A new meter is a trophy for your efforts.






People do mess with meters and besides the  thievery issue it's not necessarily safe.

You'd want them to come look for leaks if you were suddenly using more, too.


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## Badfish740 (Jan 9, 2012)

pharmsaler said:
			
		

> So I got a letter from our natural gas supplier yesterday..it went on to explain that my gas consumption is less than half of what I used last December, it went on to say they are going to send out an inspector and inspect the meter.  If they noticed any tampering of the meter I could be in serious trouble. They recommended that I call customer service to set up the time for the inspector to visit my home.........SO I called the nasty lady at national fuel and explained that I was now using my fireplace insert more frequently and that I had turned my thermostat to less than 65 degrees.  She put me on hold for a while then returned....She ran it by her supervisor and said there is no way a fireplace insert can reduce my gas consumption by that much...I explained that my insert is highly efficient and produces a large amount of heat and on and on and on....she put me on hold again....after a half hour on the phone they are still sending someone out to inspect the meter....I told the wench to also check out my wood pile in the back yard and then hung up on her!!



Gas heat has its advantages, but since its usually provided by a large corporation I'm not surprised you had such an unpleasant interaction.  We have oil heat and our fuel is provided by a small family owned company who has been serving the area for over 70 years.  The winter I installed my furnace the truck came (we are on automatic fill up) toward the end of February, and it had been a very cold winter.  I came home to a bill in the door for only 39 gallons   The next day I got a call from Bud, the owner, who was genuinely concerned after seeing that the tank only took 39 gallons-he thought that either the driver screwed up or that there was something wrong with the tank whistle that signals when it's full.  I assured him that we were not going run dry in the middle of a cold night and told him that we had just been burning a lot of wood.  "Ok!" he said, "Good for you!  We have plenty of customers who burn wood, but not very many who burn as much as you do!  Just wanted to make sure everything was alright."  Big difference, huh?


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## Adios Pantalones (Jan 9, 2012)

Badfish740 said:
			
		

> Gas heat has its advantages, but since its usually provided by a large corporation I'm not surprised you had such an unpleasant interaction.  We have oil heat and our fuel is provided by a small family owned company ...



While I agree that doing business with smaller companies is the way to go practically and morally, the big difference is that an oil company always delivers a discrete amount of fuel- there's no fooling them.  They delivered it or they didn't.  The gas company relies on a meter (this is plumbed in, not delivered propane)- if you tamper with it, then they lose and they do have people doing that.

Of course, when there's a problem of any sort- you call up the family businessperson and you can have an actual conversation and settle things.


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## potter (Jan 9, 2012)

I've been burning less wood and more gas in the house this winter. My shop is in floor propane. To get a decent price, I need to pre-buy 600 gals.. So with the warm weather usage is down in the studio. So heating the house so that I'm not left with unused pre buy at the end of the year. (or am not able to use 600 nest year) Understandable, but bass ackwards how you are rewarded for high usage. 

Well, it will make for more wood for the next season.


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## UMainah (Jan 9, 2012)

certified106 said:
			
		

> I wouldn't worry about it to much they gotta do what they gotta do and chances are they will check of change the meter and that will be the end of it. Years ago when we quit milking cows on the dairy farm I grew up on the came and changed the meter due to our electric consumption dropping so much in one month.
> 
> I wish they would come pick up my propane tank. I disconnected the line close to 6 years ago and told them to come pick it up and they never have. Heck they kept sending me a bill for a tank rental fee and for the first three years I called them and told em to shove it where the sun doesn't shine and by the way come pick up your tank. The last three years I have just thrown the bill in the trash and never called. One of these days I am gonna shove it over the hill and if they ever want it they can retrieve it from the ravine.



You might want to make sure they don't forward your bill to a collections agency.


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## lukem (Jan 9, 2012)

I have a great locally owned propane provider, but fortunately for me and unfortunately for them, we don't do a lot of business anymore.  I'm still on their automatic delivery schedule.

The previous owners of our house were an elderly couple that kept the thermostat set at 78* with a vintage 1960's gas boiler.  The first thing I did when I moved in was set it at 65* because I had seen their utility bills before the purchase ($600 - $800 / month...ouch).  After filling the tank on our first propane delivery the guy came to the door and told my wife to "keep up the great work.  This house used to use a ton of propane".

The best delivery was (after we installed the wood stove) when he backed the truck up, drug the hose around, popped the lid...he just shook his head and smiled, rolled up the hose and left.  Apparently it wasn't worth a 10 gallon fill-up.  He doesn't come back nearly as much now.


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## btuser (Jan 9, 2012)

First year in the new house the propane people wanted to charge me $200 tank charge/year.  I told them I'd buy the tanks rather than pay the charge.  No dice, "we don't sell our tanks".  I told them to come and get their tanks and credit me the price of the propane.  BOY! Did I give them a deal!  Not only did I sell it back to them for $.40 cheaper than they could sell it to me, but apparently a 250 gallon tank is really only 80% full which means its only got 200 gallons.

"That's right, 200 gallons."
"Yes, sir.  There's only 200 gallons in a 250 gallon tank"
"But you only gave me credit for 160 gallons."
"The tanks are only 80% full"
"The gas tech who pulled the tanks couldn't fit another gallon in the tanks.  They've been full since you delivered last.  That's how he knew they were already full, and that' what I have on my receipt.  You checked them before you picked them up.  They were full"
"No sir, you don't understand, a full tank is still only 80% full"
"80%?"
"Yes sir.  You can only fill it to 80%"
"So a 250 gallon tank that's full has 80% of 250 gallons?"
"That's correct sir"
Then what's 80% of 250 gallons?"
"Hold on a minute sir. Let me see. That's 250 multiplied by .80 will equal 200- WHOA, let me get my supervisor"

20 minutes on hold.

"Hello, this is Eastern Propane"
"Yes, I'd like to discuss my credit"
"Well you see sir, a 250 gallon tank will only hold 80%..............."


Long story short I didn't get my money.  The moral of the story is START CHEATING THE WEEK YOU MOVE IN!


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## eclecticcottage (Jan 9, 2012)

We are not friends with National Fuel, our NG provider at the old house.  They replaced our meter years ago and we've been trying to get it replaced again.  There's no way we can use what they say we do, especially in the summer with the pilots to both stoves shut off.  And they refuse to come out to test the darn thing to PROVE it's accuret.  This summer should be a fun one, we're going to shut off ALL the gas appliances since the tankless at the Cottage is so much more efficent, we won't use the hot water at the house.  And we always shut down the pilots on the stoves.  Which will mean 0 usage.  So...I wonder how long before we get such a letter. Lol.  

The Cottage on the other hand, uses LP.  It came with a 70% full tank from an unknown supplier, and since the seller never brought up a credit for it, neither did we-so we aren't really sure when it was filled, or by whom.  We'll shop around one year or another I'm sure, since we do cook with it, and the hot water heater uses it.  It's been hanging at 60% for a month now (it dropped 10% when we used the oven 3x-we don't use the oven anymore, lol).  We bought a 100 gallon tank for the VF fireplace we have for backup, and we can take that up to the hardware store in town to refill.  Maybe we'll do the same for the big tank too, since it seems that the stovetop and tankless don't use too much either.  Would be nice to have that space the tank takes for more wood :D


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## jeff_t (Jan 10, 2012)

Those with LP tanks that haven't been filled in a long time, do yourself a favor and slam the lid a few times the next time you look at the gauge. They do stick, and don't ask how I know. You don't want to run out when you're out of town on a sub-zero weekend.


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## Badfish740 (Jan 10, 2012)

Adios Pantalones said:
			
		

> While I agree that doing business with smaller companies is the way to go practically and morally, the big difference is that an oil company always delivers a discrete amount of fuel- there's no fooling them.  They delivered it or they didn't.  The gas company relies on a meter (this is plumbed in, not delivered propane)- if you tamper with it, then they lose and they do have people doing that.



Sure, I know it's a bit of an apples to oranges comparison, but my point was more about the personalities.  I suppose the guy at my oil company could have looked at the report and just said "Great...another #$@hole with a wood stove!"    I have read stories on here about oil companies giving people a hard time (taking them off of automatic fill up, etc...) because they only end up delivering minimal amounts each time.  The part that got me was about the gas company who, knowing nothing about the house, the insert, or the burning habits of the customer, just said "it's not possible for a wood burning appliance to be that efficient, therefore you must be stealing from us."   >:-(


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