# Wood gun Operation questions



## redryder2006 (Feb 14, 2016)

Hi all.

So my AHS wood gun e140 has been running since November and keeping the house warm but I have a few questions, or maybe looking for some advice or experience from other users.

First is the creasote that is created. The boiler is vented to a 6" single wall stainless pipe then to a approx 35" stainless liner in a interior masonry  chimney. All the joints are sealed with high temp sealant. I noticed some creosote forming on the outside of the chimney in early December and attributed to loading the boiler with wood that had been rained on and loaded wet with a high moisture content. I have since been bringing in about two weeks of wood at a time. Most are large splits with about 20%mc average. I shut the boiler down for a day and pulled apart the flue and found a considerable amount of creasote (light fluffy, not thick tar type) build up in the flue. I swept the rest of the chimney but from how this boiler was advertised and described is 2-3 mid season chimney cleanings normal?

If this is not normal I would my first guess would be an air leak somewhere allowing the fire to smolder. I adjusted the load door so that there is no creasote leaks during shut down. I don't seen any visible signs of leakage anywhere else. How do I know if an air leak is allowing the fire to smolder when the green light is off?

Other thought is since I could only fit an uninsulated liner in the masonary flue is that possibly the flue gasses are cooling too much. About the last 15feet of before the cap there is enough space that I could push some roxul or similar product down where the chimney exits the roof to insulate the pipe. 

2nd it does create more visible smoke than I thought it would. on start up quite a bit less once it is hot and the refractory is up to temp. This is my first year burning with a boiler. My previous experience has been with older wood stoves that run wide open, hot, and create little to no smoke or creosote. (Barely ever needed to sweep the chimney) That being said I'm on par to burn about the same amount of wood this winter heating the whole house and my DHW as I had previously with space heating with the wood stove. 

Thanks
Craig


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## muncybob (Feb 14, 2016)

Other than in the firebox and the fresh air intake tube, the only place I have ever seen any creosote is at the final few feet of my 30+' exterior chimney. With an uninsulated single wall SS liner I guess there is not much I can do about that. Be sure to keep the air intake tube rim and the rubber type flap very clean. You could try insulating any exposed piping from the boiler to the chimney to keep flue temps a bit higher.
I agree, the WG does smoke more than I expected and advertised. Many times I see it is only steam but other times I'm glad I don't have any close neighbors. To me the few shortcomings of this boiler are offset by not needing storage, this saves some initial $$ but with that said I wish I had the space to have storage in the shoulder seasons.


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## redryder2006 (Feb 14, 2016)

I guess I should mention that the creosote build up was throughout the flue,even directly off the cyclone.


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## muncybob (Feb 14, 2016)

That is odd on a unit only a few months old. You did buy it new? Only time I have ever had any problem in the cyclone area was due to heat exchanger and cyclone connection needing a good cleaning.


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## redryder2006 (Feb 15, 2016)

Yes brand new unit from AHS.


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## redryder2006 (Feb 15, 2016)

Do you seal the center refractory plug with cement?

Also this unit is heating a 2300sq ft house and our DHW, however due to an ongoing renovation we are only heating the first floor this year. Is it possible that I could be having this issue because off the heat load being too low for the 140?


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## Fred61 (Feb 15, 2016)

With the reduced load, are you still filling the firebox or have you adjusted the amount to reflect your load? Fresh, unburned (charred) wood produces a ton of moisture and creosote at idle without the intense heat to burn it and force it up the stack. If not I suggest you make smaller fires that will be mostly baked out by the time the unit goes to idle. Claims that Wood Gun doesn't need storage is a myth. They benefit from storage the same as Euro boilers. I can say my boiler doesn't need storage but I'm glad I have it.


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## Buzz Saw (Feb 15, 2016)

Fred61 said:


> I can say my boiler doesn't need storage but I'm glad I have it.



What boiler do you have?

P.S If you have it listed in your signature I can't  see  signatures using Tap-a-talk phone app.


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## Fred61 (Feb 15, 2016)

Buzz Saw said:


> What boiler do you have?
> 
> P.S If you have it listed in your signature I can't  see  signatures using Tap-a-talk phone app.


I have an EKO 25. I had a Wood Gun 140 a few years back.


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## Buzz Saw (Feb 15, 2016)

Fred61 said:


> I have an EKO 25. I had a Wood Gun 140 a few years back.


What made you trade out the wood gun? I ask because right now the wood gun is my first choice and if there is something I should be leary of I would rather know sooner than later.


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## Fred61 (Feb 15, 2016)

Buzz Saw said:


> What made you trade out the wood gun? I ask because right now the wood gun is my first choice and if there is something I should be leary of I would rather know sooner than later.


I don't want to list the problems here. After struggling with it for 8 years it finally became  unusable and I had a junk dealer drag it on to his flatbed for a ride to the junk heap. When I start listing all the problems the folks with Wood Guns see it as bashing and become pretty unhappy with me. Let's just say that if you backed up to my door and offered me one for free, I wouldn't take it.


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## muncybob (Feb 15, 2016)

I think if you do a search you will find that Fred's experiences are well documented here. While I do not dispute any of what he says he had happen to him I will say that I currently am in touch with several WG owners on a regular basis and while we have had some issues along the way, none of us had the situations Fred seemed to deal with on a continual basis. With that said, if I had the room for a min of 500 gallon storage and the room to fit a larger unit through the basement door would I buy a WG....I doubt it. There are units out there that the combined cost of the boiler & storage are in the ballpark of a WG. 

Don't get me wrong, now that I have learned how to properly run my unit I am happy with it. I have very little smoke smell in my basement since I had the pipes welded( I have apprx 8' horizontal run from boiler to chimney) and any rubber type door seals replaced and my low wood consumption each year continues to amaze me.


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## redryder2006 (Feb 15, 2016)

I usually aim for 8-10hr burn times. I work 2nd shift so usually when I get home it is running and a hot bed of coals. I load it up with wood and shut the door. I usually hear it run for a few minutes get up to 180' then shut down. Maybe a half hour goes by and it starts up again runs for awhile then shuts down. When I get up in the morning it's usually a bed of coals again so I load it up with a small load, then load it again with a larger load before i leave for work. 

If I'm home I have a habit of only putting in acouple splits at a time and checking on it every couple hours


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## Fred61 (Feb 15, 2016)

redryder2006 said:


> I usually aim for 8-10hr burn times. I work 2nd shift so usually when I get home it is running and a hot bed of coals. I load it up with wood and shut the door. I usually hear it run for a few minutes get up to 180' then shut down. Maybe a half hour goes by and it starts up again runs for awhile then shuts down. When I get up in the morning it's usually a bed of coals again so I load it up with a small load, then load it again with a larger load before i leave for work.
> 
> If I'm home I have a habit of only putting in acouple splits at a time and checking on it every couple hours


Of that 8 to 10 hour burn time perhaps half the time or more is idle time. If you load it up and burn for a half hour you are depositing tons of creosote in the burn chamber. You may think all potential air supply sources are sealed at shutdown but there's always some way for air to get in there causing gasses, moisture and all the other crap to go through the long, cold exhaust on your unit and condensing on the pipe. Sealing your pipes would stop room air from entering through the exhaust perhaps from a small amount of backdraft. (A theory that I've always thought about but never discussed here) That's the only place on the unit that doesn't have a provision for mechanical sealing.
Unfortunately it appears your schedule doesn't allow for any other burning regimen. When you add your full heating load things will improve but I can't tell you to what extent.


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## redryder2006 (Feb 15, 2016)

The flue pipes are sealed with high temp rtv but I agree that during idle time the flue could be cooling significantly due to winds or a small back draft. I guess I could get a thermometer and check the flue temp when it's running vs when it's idle. Or check the draft. Can excessive draft cause enough negative pressure in the burn chamber to increase air leakage? 

All in all I've been happy with the unit so far. Keeps the wood in the basement and it's easy to operate. It also runs itself when I'm not home which is a plus. In the future I plan to build a detached workshop and put the boiler out there and the amount of radiant heat the unit produces will be nice to have in the winter months and should "increase" the heat load. 

I have a soot eater and last time I cleaned the chimney all the build up swept out easily (seemed to be mostly ash) and only took me about 30min to complete so it's really not a big deal, I just didn't expect any build up at all with a gassifier.


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## krinkov (Feb 15, 2016)

i own a woodgun 140 and heating 4k sq.feet never had these issues.bought it new.maybe call ahs.they are good to work with.i have no storage.


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## redryder2006 (Feb 16, 2016)

Wow. 4K sq feet. I've heard similar heat loads from other users. Must be too much idle time on my end. How often do you have to load your boiler heating that much sq footage? New construction? What's your location? 

I have a 2300sq foot house built in the 1800's in CT. Some areas are insulated. A lot are not, or poorly done. Windows are older replacements that need to be replaced.


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## muncybob (Feb 16, 2016)

Did AHS suggest the 140 for the 2300 sq ft? I'm heating about 2100 sq ft (about 50% well insulated and the rest not so good but low ceilings)with the E100 although I thought the 140 was needed. They told me(correctly so) to undersize the boiler esp when running w/o storage.

The "idle" debate has raged here for some time, esp when talking about the WG. I know  that there is no way to *totally* avoid some idle when running w/o storage. Right at shut down there is a small amount of smoke that will linger out my 30+ ft. chimney for about 60 seconds. I have zero build up in my pipes other than ash. I do get more ash out of my chimney when I clean than I thought I should but again, with the exception of the last few feet zero creosote. So, with the small amount of idling it seems it's running as it should. The efficiency still surprises me too. Even in the coldest years since we've been running the WG I have never burned more than 4.75 cords and that includes DHW and keeping the house at 71. This has been a mild winter for us. We started burning mid November and we have gone through less than 2 cords. 

It seems every situation is different though. There are some WG users that do have creosote problems, short cycling, excessive smoke and huffing situations. Over time we have identified most of the problems and pretty much resolved them.


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## Fred61 (Feb 16, 2016)

Wood Gun or any other boiler. Undersized is best unless you have storage and the best way to use storage is to batch burn and distribute heat from the tank. The trouble with sizing a boiler is temperature differences during the heating season like the shoulder seasons. At some point in time it will be oversized. There is only one good way to extinguish a fire and that is to take away the fuel like your fossil fuel boilers and pellet boilers. Shutting off the air which is what all these boilers do is the nastiest way to extinguish a fire. Would be even worse on oil and gas boilers Operators like Krinkov who are heating 4K sq ft have the best experiences with these units.


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## redryder2006 (Feb 16, 2016)

I plan on building an outdoor shop this year to house the boiler. Between doing the heat loss calculations for the house plus knowing that we would lose the radiant heat from the boiler as a contributing heat source was the reason I went with the 140 over the 100. I plan on checking the flue again this week. I'll take some pictures of what I find.


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## CTFIRE (Feb 16, 2016)

Craig -
It takes a while to get dialed in on your house and the WG. Everyone has a little different experience. I have a 140 also.  My biggest realization was cleaning the center tube. I like to rake that out 2 -3 times a week. I also use an epa plug. I alternate which side tube I block. The other thing is making sure you are gasifiing. Getting that inital coal bed and then loading approriately. You should hear a roar when gasifing. You also want to keep the furthermost nozzle clear of wood and ash so that fresh o2 can get into tube. If you aren't gassing you are getting incomplete combustition. What kind of smoke do you get at stake? If it is just water vapor (white smoke on real cold days) or invisible most of the time it is dialed in. My first year I used a lot of poplar that wasn't too dry and smoke a ton. Got a lot build up that year.
jason


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## krinkov (Feb 16, 2016)

wood gun boilers are made to burn hot.the boiler does not like 50 degree days.i was going to buy the 180 wood gun but ahs talk me in to the 140.i am glad i took the advice.the only thing i do not like the loading swings to the right.very happy with the 140.


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## pblormis (Feb 16, 2016)

Running e-100  for six years not all of that has been what i would call fun. Most of my problems were lack of knowing what i was doing. had help setting it up by good people that did not know what they were doing either that did not help. Bad wood keep me cleaning a lot. motor off and on to clean out the heat exchange. Wire brush on a drill works good. had it down to about 1/2 hr for cleaning out and motor back on. Now do that about once a year or if i have to replace a bearing  Door gaskets leaking replace with rope center brick replacement 2 times now using fire brick  till i get my own made. motor not once but 3 times new bearings. one day run great the next day creosote running down stove pipe and making a mess.learned a lot about how much to load and good wood has made all the diff. i now can look at my rain cap and know if it's running right if around the top is white all is good. i have a short flue pipe about 10 ft total. I will say this, there is no way i would want this setting in my house with all the ash that come out from cleaning tubes. The e-100 has been more than enough to heat my 2,700 ft house even in the coldest of temp that we ever had. Mine set's about a 125 ft from my house in a side building off my shop radiated heat from stove keeps my 1,200 ft shop some what warm. This summer plans are for storage,and new underground lines as my pex in drain pipe failed this year found leak but will replace with spray foam in trench.


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## muncybob (Feb 17, 2016)

I agree, I would not want to have a WG inside my home unless I had the smoke hood.


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## CTFIRE (Feb 17, 2016)

I have the smoke hood and pipe the air intake from the outisde. With the hood on any ash that gets airborne during cleaning gets sucked out


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## pblormis (Feb 17, 2016)

What about the back door? that one for me is the hardest to get clean out without getting  ash all over motor the floor and anywhere else it wants to float too.  wish i had vent hood. i still would not want it in my house. It is nice to be able to go into my shop and not be cold just using the radiant heat off stove. I ran cat 5 cable from  shop to house and install a little 12v red light that come on when stove is running and low temp shut off when stove is 150, turns off every thing on stove and will not come back on till i reset it.have a yellow light that tells me i am running on heat pump as mine system is all tied in to main thermostat. It is either running on wood or heat pump no loosing temp in house at all.That red light has save many trip to shop, if it not on stay in house as i don;t use the purge timer that has stick one to many times. as for the green light give up putting bulbs in. Cleaning flue pipe real simple tap pipe and empty ash pan.


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## redryder2006 (Feb 17, 2016)

Jason where in CT are you? I'm in Lyme. What's an EPA plug?


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## CTFIRE (Feb 17, 2016)

I'm in trumbull. The epa plug is like the center plug -same material) goes in one side tube. Restricts flue gas to one side. Ahs sells them. I had problems with huffing and it seemed to help control burn. With respect to rear door, I don't open it. I used to clean all the time. I think one of the other guys talked me into it. Just fills up again. Figure I get the ashes in cyclone and by taking tubes couple times a week


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## redryder2006 (Feb 17, 2016)

Also where should my aqua stats be set? My operating limit on the rear of the boiler is set at 185. 

On top of the boiler my high limit is set around 190 and my low at 140. Should I turn the low limit up to say 160 to reduce idle time?


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## CTFIRE (Feb 17, 2016)

Do you have the electonic controls


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## Buzz Saw (Feb 17, 2016)

If you guys don't mind sharing what did you pay for your Wood Gun? Please send a PM if you don't want to broadcast to thr whole world what you spend. 
I've got a general idea of pricing for other boilers but no clue on a WG.  Thought asking you guys would be easier & quicker than talking to AHS.

 Thanks


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## redryder2006 (Feb 17, 2016)

Yes electric controls. Low water cut off and low temp shut down. Buzz I'll check my invoice and send u a pm later.


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## redryder2006 (Feb 17, 2016)

Okay gave the boiler a good cleaning and swept the chimney. I think what I'm seeing is just ash indicating I need to be cleaning the boiler and cyclone more often than I have been. I also unbolted the fan and the heat exchanger was nice and clean. I attached some photos of the flue before and after the soot eater was run through it. Obviously burning my conventional wood stove, I never had a fan that could force ash into the flue which explains why this is new to me.


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## redryder2006 (Feb 17, 2016)

Also here is a pic if of my splits. Based on my reading they are probably smaller than they should be.


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## CTFIRE (Feb 17, 2016)

That's woods too small and pretty for the wood gun. Big and chunky is what you want. I made that mistake early on. I don't split a log unless it's over 10-12 inch in diameter. I get alot of big logs so I split to 24 inch long (splitter limitation) with a square face of 6x8 inches. Having the blocks let's me pack it tighter in wg. Most of my wood is below 20%mc so I mix in splits from fall for overnight to balance the load. See these are 8 to 10 diam. Wg loves them


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## Buzz Saw (Feb 17, 2016)

CTFIRE said:


> That's woods too small and pretty for the wood gun. Big and chunky is what you want. I made that mistake early on. I don't split a log unless it's over 10-12 inch in diameter. I get alot of big logs so I split to 24 inch long (splitter limitation) with a square face of 6x8 inches. Having the blocks let's me pack it tighter in wg. Most of my wood is below 20%mc so I mix in splits from fall for overnight to balance the load. See these are 8 to 10 diam. Wg loves them
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The ability to burn big stuff is what attracts me to the WG.  Do all models of the WG eat the big stuff?


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## CTFIRE (Feb 17, 2016)

Yeah. They aren't making the 100 anymore. I think the new one is a e155 and then they are redesigning the 140 and 180. I want to say the door opening in 18x18 and I once put a round that just fit through the door. Bigger is better


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## Buzz Saw (Feb 17, 2016)

Any clue what they are redesigning on the Wood guns?  I'm not very familiar with the machine, as I've never seen one in person.


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## CTFIRE (Feb 17, 2016)

Epa testing. They insulated the machine and then piped intake air directly to tubes. Where are you located?


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## Buzz Saw (Feb 17, 2016)

North central Ohio...Really close to nowhere.


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## redryder2006 (Feb 17, 2016)

Jason where do you have your high and low limit set?


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## muncybob (Feb 18, 2016)

redryder2006 said:


> Jason where do you have your high and low limit set?


 Mine is set at 190 with a 30 degree differential. Unit will shut off at 190 and restart around 160. We have the oil option also and if water temp reaches 140 it will go to oil(if we have it on the auto setting). I have not been cleaning the back door area in years, the ash accumulation seems to protect the door seal.

A lot of the oak we are burning this year is split like that in red's photo. The combination of limiting air intake and using the epa plug has kept any huffing to a minimum, but you sure go through wood quick with small splits! For me, one of the keys to keeping the unit running well is to keep it clean. I clean the tubes, ash pan and air intake area twice/week. It doesn't take more than 15 minutes and seems to help with efficiency...plus it makes me feel better    I too get a fair amount of ash accumulation in the horizontal tube and at the very bottom of my chimney, this gets cleaned and sucked out once/month....again only takes about 10 minutes.


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## redryder2006 (Feb 18, 2016)

I'll trying turning my low limit up from 140 to 160 and see how it runs.


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## krinkov (Feb 18, 2016)

woodgun 140 that i own i turned it up to 180-185.everything burns up.no epa plug.i think 140-160 is to low.the stove is made to run hot.


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## muncybob (Feb 18, 2016)

For what it's worth...So I checked my t-stats(something I have not done in many moons). My unit has 3, one of which controls the oil. The other  2  are set as: Operating Limit of 190, the white differential dial is set close to around 28 or so. The High Limit one is set at 205. I'm not sure what is being referred to as Low Limit.


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## pblormis (Feb 18, 2016)

From what i understand from the e-100 to new improvements on  the e-155 ss has an vfd to make the motor run faster based on water temp. Also Air intake has a diffuse box to allow  for super heat air to be sent to the tubes for quicker gas Yes i would like to have one but  $$$. I built my own hot air super heater, I covered the back hole in center bricks with half piece of small car exhaust pipe weld two pipes on to the half piece they went almost to the top of fire box they look like horns. It worked but need some way to stabilize when loading wood keep falling over finely abandon still have them setting out side somewhere. I think the vfd would be better served working off flue temps than water temps. But i might be missing the something.


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## Buzz Saw (Feb 18, 2016)

Do any of you guys have a operators manual, and an installation manual?    It seems wood gun doesn't have thier manuals on-line like other manufacturers.  It would be nice to read through the manuals prior to a purchase.


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## redryder2006 (Feb 19, 2016)

Buzz Saw said:


> Do any of you guys have a operators manual, and an installation manual?    It seems wood gun doesn't have thier manuals on-line like other manufacturers.  It would be nice to read through the manuals prior to a purchase.



Here ya go

http://greenftechn.com/downloads/WoodGunManual.pdf


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## redryder2006 (Feb 19, 2016)

Also here are my two aqua stats. First one on the rear of the boiler and the second (two part) on the top. I don't have my oil unit set up yet so I'm not sure what that wiring harness looks like or where it ties it. I've been running wood only this year. I've turned the low temp shut down on my two part aquastat up to 160. I'll report back after my next cleaning.


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## ALL4GLH (Feb 20, 2016)

For what it's worth, I got a huge dust pan from Lowes and it's wide enough that it will cover the entire rear door and front door of my E140. Makes cleaning it a lot easier. Quickie - Professional Metal Handheld Dustpan
http://www.lowes.com/pd_73765-1738-428_?productId=3830565


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## WoodGun-Mike (Feb 23, 2016)

redryder2006 said:


> Here ya go
> 
> http://greenftechn.com/downloads/WoodGunManual.pdf


That is an older version of the manual. Use this link instead:

http://www.alternateheatingsystems.com/downloads/WoodGunManual.pdf


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## Buzz Saw (Feb 24, 2016)

On average what do you guys spend on yearly operating/maintenance costs?
Anything profoundly unexpected?


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## muncybob (Feb 25, 2016)

Center brick need to be replaced every 15 to 20 cords, so not exactly a yearly cost but for me that's about every 3 years(I could stretch it to 4 but I prefer to be safe) so I guess it would equate to about $35/yr. Just replaced fan bearing after 6 years, if you do it yourself it's a minimal cost. I had my mechanic friend use his pullers and cost me about $30.....so that's $5/yr. I guess about $125/yr to clean the chimney or buy a SootEater and do it yourself(which is what I do). I can't think of any other recurring costs to run it.


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## pblormis (Feb 25, 2016)

In six years i  replaced the motor 3 times one was under warranty  have one for backup running Marathon jet  good motor replaced center brick 2 times need new ones now but to cheap so using fire brick. door gaskets two times I have a short flue used just black stove pipe had to replace this year.Had to buy insulation board for motor plate a few years back. And some boiler control for PH  some maybe a total of $260.00. in six years that's not bad. not looking forward to replacing refractory as that cost will be some big $$ but still good for?? year's


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## Buzz Saw (Feb 25, 2016)

pblormis said:


> In six years i  replaced the motor 3 times one was under warranty  have one for backup running Marathon jet  good motor replaced center brick 2 times need new ones now but to cheap so using fire brick. door gaskets two times I have a short flue used just black stove pipe had to replace this year.Had to buy insulation board for motor plate a few years back. And some boiler control for PH  some maybe a total of $260.00. in six years that's not bad. not looking forward to replacing refractory as that cost will be some big $$ but still good for?? year's


Changed the motor 3 times? That seems excessive.  Are you running it really hard & really long?

Is the motor a standard off the shelf that can be bought at Grainger?

Anyone else replacing motors this much?


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## pblormis (Feb 26, 2016)

The first motor just quit the winding went bad i was going to have it rebuilt but the place where i took it to said it would be cheaper to buy new one glad it was under warranty by motor company they replaced it. The second one the inside switch was bad.i could hear it going as the motor start up  so knew i had to do something ask AHS if they used a diff motor  told me about  the Marathon jet. Kind of glad as i live in the town where they are made. As far running hard a few winter 6 to 7 cord. This winter not much at all. three cord so far with the temps every other week in the sixty and seventy no need to run. I almost feel guilty about that.


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## muncybob (Feb 26, 2016)

Would be interested to know how you used fire brick for the nozzle? Did you replace the rope door gaskets or did you continue using the rubber type? AHS strongly recommends using nothing but SS for the piping.


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## pblormis (Feb 26, 2016)

I used rope for all the door gaskets cheap and an easy to replace. My total pipe flue is 2 four foot black pipe 2 elbows  rain cap  sealed with high temp . it is a little over 7 foot on the inside of building that is insulated so flue temps good at 230 to 270. As for the fire brick cut to fit side brick ledges drill holes in center of brick to the size of the nozzle you buy from AHS  used 2200 deg bricks takes three and a small piece for mine. I know they will not last forever but very inexpensive and easy to do, took less than an hour to make and install. i will be casting my own for next year


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## krinkov (Mar 1, 2016)

i made fire bricks for the essex 1000 when i had it.the woodgun bricks will not be as hard to make.


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## mark123 (Apr 9, 2016)

I have a E180 and I find it a constant battle to keep everything sealed up in terms of smoke leaking out. I have the boiler in the basement in a very well sealed boiler room (exterior door with weather stripping between boiler room and living area, spray foam for all water and wire passages  etc...) with walk out garage door. I recently discovered that by leaving my smoke exhaust hood on 24 hrs/day and keeping the boiler room at a very slight vacuum all hints of the smell are gone from the rest of the house. I have a fresh air intake so this does not affect the burning process. I find the high temp orange silicone has burnt off several times and in my opinion is an extreme fire hazard. My wife went into the boiler room to see big  flames from the burning silicone. I made the entire smoke pipe from tig welded 16 gauge stainless but I have to come up with a better solution where it enters the brick. Also I need to come up with a better intake pipe system, I am currently using 6" metal ductwork and screwed and duct taped but several times this has blown apart due to the explosions upon hot gasses igniting at startup. I was thinking 5 or 6" PVC possibly with glued elbows. I have included a pic of the silicone after it has burnt, it turns white and flakes away like powder. I find this has happened after closing the the intake damper to stop the chugging, this leads to a rich burn that sends unburnt charcoal bits into the flue, this collects and burns in the smoke pipe reaching extreme temperatures. In the pic my 6" pipe is approx 6" inside the 7" and the space between is stuffed with rope gasket and high temp silicone but eventually the silicone burns or detaches and the smoke still leaks out when it starts chugging. As for the center fire bricks, I have been making them from 5/8" thick steel and they last about a year, I then fill in the eroded areas with my mig welder and they are good for another year.


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## infinitymike (Apr 9, 2016)

I have replaced the silicone gasket for the front load door, after 4 winters of heat/dhw and 2 summers of dhw, it was very deteriorated.

I replace the center bricks with OEM bricks but want to try and cast my own, I like the idea of using firebricks and retro fitting them.

I just purchased 4 of the side refractories,  2 of the 8" pieces and 2 of the 4" pieces.
They are for the rear of the firebox, which have really deteriorated, in fact the 4" one blew a hole in the side of it, so now the gasification tube is open to the side tubes.
I did parge high temp cement around the deteriorated areas, but now that there is a complete hole from one side to the other, I think its time to replace them.
I also want to cast these for future replacements.



krinkov said:


> i made fire bricks for the essex 1000 when i had it.the woodgun bricks will not be as hard to make.



Did you cast them?  What cement/concrete did you use? What did you use as a form?

I was thinking of make a 2 part steel form, that I can also apply pressure to squeeze the cement.


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## Fred61 (Apr 10, 2016)

Mark, Are you sure you didn't plagiarize some of my previous posts about my Wood Gun experiences? Looks like a smaller sample of what I had posted in the past. I had the same problems plus a few more.

Mike. You haven't put enough wood through your unit to cause that amount of wear. That's basically the whole guts of the unit. Have you pressed AHS to cover it under warranty? That short circuits the flame path and actually could be rendered unsafe. They should stand behind it. They're probably holding their breath right now, hoping you won't take them to task on it. I'm sure they know that either they used inadequate material or that there is a design flaw.
I was starting to worry about my refractory deteriorating and what to do about it but my unit died of another ailment first.


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## muncybob (Apr 15, 2016)

Mark, the only time I ever had a fire in my pipe was trying to stretch another season out of the center brick. Since then I keep an eye on the brick and if it is even close to needing replacement in the upcoming season I just go ahead and replace in the autumn, seems to be about e/o year....no problem since. My pipe is also sealed with a combination of welds and high temp silicone and no leaks. I pop off the end cap of my pipes each month to clean out the ash accumulated in my 8' horizontal run to the chimney and have yet to see any evidence of coals. I also replaced all door seals with rope gasket covered in high temp silicone.

Short cycles will vary from one user to the next depending on the need. I've been fortunate I guess in that I rarely have a backfire and they are normally fairly mild...could not have said that in my 1st season, this was part of the learning curve for me.


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## infinitymike (Apr 16, 2016)

Fred,

I've pushed close to 45 cord of cord wood through the unit  for winter heat and 15 cord of pallet wood for DHW in the summer.
I've burned for 5 winters and 3 summers. My house sucks heat and the unit is running quite often. I go through 3 fireboxes in a 24 hour period on an average winter day. I'd hate to think how much I'd burn if I had this same house in a colder climate.

My feeling is that I burn about 85% red oak which is known to be very corrosive and who knows if the pallet wood is treated with anything and what corrosiveness that may have.
Also, for the first 3 winters, I burned extremely small splits, which caused a lot of off gassing and the inability for the unit to keep up with that gassing and therefor causing a very incomplete burn with lots of dark gray smoke. So, I'm sure the incomplete burn also sent lots of corrosive exhaust through the refractories.
Last winter the splits were a bit bigger but still not big enough, this winter...zero problems with the monsters I shoved in there.
I could barely fit 5 splits in the firebox, where as before I was packing in 15-18 splits. No huffing, no smoke, a very complete burn with high gasification temps and low stack temps.

I have a good relationship with AHS and they have stood by me through all of my "issues", with countless hours of conversations and even a few free parts. They did give me a nice discount on the refractories from their listed pricing, as well.
The refractories aren't under any real warranty since they are a normal wear item, kinda like tires on a car.
I have the EPA plug in that tube which won't allow any thing to be pulled down that tube, so I am not concerned with any short circuiting of the flame.

Bottom line, a lot of my "issues" were caused by me and my lack of understanding.


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## krinkov (Apr 16, 2016)

hey mike.thanks for the you tube videos.kind of handy to watch since i bought a 140 a year ago.


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## infinitymike (Apr 16, 2016)

redryder2006 said:


> Also here is a pic if of my splits. Based on my reading they are probably smaller than they should be.
> 
> View attachment 175139



WAY TO SMALL.

Heres what I used to burn compared to what I split last and I'm  even splitting bigger this year.


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## infinitymike (Apr 17, 2016)

krinkov said:


> hey mike.thanks for the you tube videos.kind of handy to watch since i bought a 140 a year ago.



Thank you, just trying to educate people so they can learn from my mistakes.

What products  did you use when you made you refractory bricks. Will you use the same stuff if you make them for the WG?


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## krinkov (Apr 18, 2016)

mike. i used hi cast 45. alsey.com.got the mix from the local block plant.55lbs was 45.00-50.00.i let them dry for a week then put the blocks in a old oven i had in the shop.


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## infinitymike (Apr 18, 2016)

krinkov said:


> mike. i used hi cast 45. alsey.com.got the mix from the local block plant.55lbs was 45.00-50.00.i let them dry for a week then put the blocks in a old oven i had in the shop.



How long have they lasted?
What did you use for a mold? Plywood?
Did it release well?


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## krinkov (Apr 18, 2016)

i used plywood. 1/4 for the round parts then 3/4 for the rest.then screwed the form together.pvc pipe for the center hole.coat the form with oil.you can take the pvc out or let them burn out.i would get a year with the center bricks.i think when ahs the bricks are baked at 1900 degrees.that makes them  last longer.


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## redryder2006 (Apr 22, 2016)

Just an update: since last time I've set my low temp shut down to 160 and my high limit at 190. I also have been burning just one fire overnight to warm the house up. I have set the thermostat at its max so the fire burns until it runs out of fuel at which point the house is warm. I have not cleaned the flue pipe since last post but I have made a habit of cleaning the center tube and the firebox of any loose ash much more often. I also have my wood for next year in log length so I plan on cutting much bigger rounds/splits.


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## Foreston WoodWorker (Jul 28, 2016)

I'm looking at the E180 or E250 any direction and info would be helpful. I did read several posts on it.


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## WoodGun-Mike (Jul 29, 2016)

redryder2006 said:


> Just an update: since last time I've set my low temp shut down to 160 and my high limit at 190. I also have been burning just one fire overnight to warm the house up. I have set the thermostat at its max so the fire burns until it runs out of fuel at which point the house is warm. I have not cleaned the flue pipe since last post but I have made a habit of cleaning the center tube and the firebox of any loose ash much more often. I also have my wood for next year in log length so I plan on cutting much bigger rounds/splits.



This is fine, but should not be necessary to eliminate creosote. Some additional things to check: Make sure adequate makeup air is available. Some folks' boiler rooms are way too tight! Let the room leak or duct outside air in. Check return water temps. Well performing Wood Guns will be fine at 140, but I've seen folks running a lot lower with poor to very bad results. Monitor stack temps as another way to see what's going on. You should see 300 degrees. AHS makes a 2 slot Center Brick that allows for more air flow. Don't hesitate to reach out for support.


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## WoodGun-Mike (Jul 29, 2016)

Foreston WoodWorker said:


> I'm looking at the E180 or E250 any direction and info would be helpful. I did read several posts on it.



I can put you in touch with users. Make sure you have the load to make them work. The E180 and E250 are commercial models, and must be purchased as such, unless you're looking for used. AHS will build an E200 for commercial use, if that is the best fit.


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## Foreston WoodWorker (Jul 29, 2016)

I heat 3 different buildings. Shop, finish room, garage and home so have some pretty serious square ftage to deal with.
Would appreciate some user's to connect with. Mike from AHS gave me 3 connections here in MN. but more is better. 
I'm concerned with the fire brick life?


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## muncybob (Jul 30, 2016)

I think my manual stated to expect to replace the center/nozzle brick every 15 cords which seems a bit optimistic. Due to a small fire in my horizontal pipe run a few years ago I'm a bit paranoid andI replace e/o year which is more like 8 to 9 cords.


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## infinitymike (Jul 30, 2016)

Foreston WoodWorker said:


> I heat 3 different buildings. Shop, finish room, garage and home so have some pretty serious square ftage to deal with.
> Would appreciate some user's to connect with. Mike from AHS gave me 3 connections here in MN. but more is better.
> I'm concerned with the fire brick life?




PM me and I'll be happy to give you my number, so we can chat.

Theirs a bunch of guys with WoodGuns, all of which are on this forum. They have owned their units just as long as me and few guys own it a couple years longer.
I'm the only one who has had to replace the refractories, Ive either seen them in person or by picture and their refractories look brand new.
Maybe I had a bad mix of cement.


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## infinitymike (Jul 30, 2016)

Im talking about the main refractories,  the center bricks need to be replaced like Bob said, every couple, few years, depends on how many cord you push through it


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