# Jotul 602: Used v. New?



## nola mike (Dec 1, 2010)

I've pretty much narrowed down my choice to this stove, after briefly flirting with a VC Aspen.  I've definitely caught the bug after installing my insert--getting giddy about putting something in here.  A new one is $900 here, while I could get a pre-EPA one probably for $150-200.  
1. how much of an efficiency hit is there with the older stoves? Looks like from reading on here that even the old ones were pretty clean burning.
1a.  Is it worth paying the premium for a brand new/glass door/EPA stove?
2.  Looks like if i buy used I need to look carefully for cracks, and check the interior heat shields.  Since I've never seen one of these in person, I'm not entirely sure what I should be looking for.  Will a cracked stove/heat shield be pretty obvious?


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## begreen (Dec 1, 2010)

Having just resurrected the old 602 and being able to compare its stack with a neighbor's that has the new 602CB I can say that there is quite a difference, particularly for say the 15-30 minutes where a fresh reload is igniting in the stove. The new stove is definitely cleaner burning during this stage. Unfortunately, with the small firebox, one goes through this stage several times a day. 

That said, it is still a fine little stove, just burn carefully and only burn dry wood. If buying used, a careful visual inspection of the stove on the inside on and out is warranted. Look for any exterior cracks forming at the corners, around the door and particular at the back of the stove. In the interior, look at how the firebox is formed. It should have straight side burnplates, no warps or cracks. The upper baffle is slightly arched. It should also be solid, with no cracks. The baffle should meet tightly with the side plates forming a clean firebox chamber. 

If you end up buying new, I would also look at the Morso 2B. http://www.morsoeusa.com/Morsø-2B-Standard-534.aspx


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## jruttle3 (Dec 1, 2010)

Check woodmanspartsplus.com for a schematic of the parts for a 602. As you will see there,  replacement parts are available for top, bottom and side burn protectors ( a.k.a. liners or plates). The stove needs to have these protective liners and it is very common to see them cracked or severely eroded. The most likely place to see a  crack in an exterior component is on the back of the stove. The back too  is replaceable and/or repairable. The old ones are great stoves for heating a room, even a fairly large one. I find mine is easy to keep burning with no visible smoke. No overnight burns tho.


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## begreen (Dec 1, 2010)

Hickoryman, do you have an EPA version of the Morso 2B? If so, can you describe performance differences?


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## k9brain (Dec 1, 2010)

I am new to wood heat myself and considered buying used also.  I realized that there is a lot to go wrong with an old stove; warping, gaskets, rusted internal parts, misaligned hinges and levers, ash build-up in the airways & etc.  Maybe if I was more experienced with wood stoves I would buy used  Right now I will gladly pay the extra money for the professional advice I get from my stove dealer.  The peace of mind of a warranty and the current 30% tax break make it worth the extra money.


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## jruttle3 (Dec 1, 2010)

BGrn, Sorry, mine is an older one — enameled black and in great shape. I couldn't pass it up for only $100 on Craig's List.

One little thing has puzzled me about this stove. The schematic on the woodmanspartsplus site shows it as having a pair of  fire-box protective plates along the curved sides — maybe firebrick, maybe cast iron. But a local dealer, who has handled Morso stoves for over 20 years says they used to come in fully assembled and he never saw one with the side plates.  Nor has he seen any problem caused by the lack thereof.

There's a beautiful looking Jotul 602 on eBay now, out of Hardwick Mass.


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## nola mike (Dec 5, 2010)

Pulled the trigger on the used 602, $175, which may be a bit on the high side, but I haven't seen much else on CL, and I was impatient.  Can't seem to figure out how old it is.  It just says "602" on the front, does not have a wooden handle.  it has a 4.75" flue exit.  The PO said that he did not have an adapter, and it went straight into liner (though he didn't seem too clear on this).  It's in good shape overall, no cracks/stress in the body.  One heat shield is a bit deteriorated/warped (see pic), though not *horrible*.

1. How should I hook this up? I haven't run a liner yet.  Should I install 5"? This space isn't big enough for much else as far as a stove goes, though I don't want to limit myself with a 5" liner.  If i go 5", do I need an adapter still? If so, are there alternatives to the official Jotul piece?
2.  Should this have a bottom baffle/shield? I've found conflicting info on this; maybe the "UL" versions had one, but not the original?  The side shields end a couple of inches from the bottom (and don't appear broken/etc), which I found odd.  Is that OK?


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## jruttle3 (Dec 5, 2010)

My experience is all with a 602B from 1979. I bought it used and have been heating my living room with it for 4 seasons, and am very happy with it.  I would replace your warped heat shield — the firebox is small and  that bulge robs you of significant space — definitely worth $100.  Check http://www.woodmanspartsplus.com and note that they have 2 styles ( UL and not); one they call a side Burn Plate and the other they call Side Liner - UL. They don't mention left or right — but that DOES matter.

I don't know if  the earlier 602's had a bottom "Burn Plate" but the space between the bottom of your side shields and the floor of the stove makes me think it may have. Or else you were meant to leave a thick layer of ash or lay down a bed of dry sand to protect the bottom from excessive heat. My UL stove has one ( as pictured on the woodmans site) , and there is a thin insulating ceramic blanket under it. It is held in place with a screw through the dimple you can see in the drawing.  Mine was warped slightly from heat when I got it, so protecting the bottom is an issue worth considering. Let's hear what others with first gen 602's have to say on this. 

On your flue question, I would definitely track down an adapter from the metric to whatever size pipe you end up using.  Also get a stack thermometer. With dry wood, these can heat up very fast. I let the fire take off quickly but don't like to see it go over 600 ( surface thermometer at 24" above the stove top) then start cutting it back to burn at 300-200, with no visible smoke from stack.


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## begreen (Dec 5, 2010)

Your stove base matches mine. That is the bottom plate with the raised zigzag pattern. There is a thin layer of mineral wood underneath it. It's great that you got one with a clean back, no cracks. With a little TLC it will be up an running soon. I have an extra flue adapter 5"x6" if you need it. I would also recommend adding a turnkey damper to the flue pipe. These little stoves like to take right off and the air control is a little coarse.


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## jruttle3 (Dec 5, 2010)

Good eyes, BeG !  Yes that bottom plate does look right. Is yours held down with a bolt-and-nut that comes out the bottom? Also, the side plates:  Are they flat or do they have  those curved ridges ?


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## precaud (Dec 5, 2010)

Hickoryman said:
			
		

> I would replace your warped heat shield —  Check http://www.woodmanspartsplus.com and note that they have 2 styles ( UL and not); one they call a side Burn Plate and the other they call Side Liner - UL. They don't mention left or right — but that DOES matter.


The side burn plate is the one you want for the 602B. Side does NOT matter - the casting is symmetrical side-to-side.

Another option would be to buy a sheet of 1/2" Zircar RS-1200 and cut out two side plates from it, using one of yours as a template. This material is superior to cast iron in this application. It works easily using normal woodworking tools, and will not warp or crack. I have replaced cast iron liners with it, and my experience with it is very positive.



> I don't know if  the earlier 602's had a bottom "Burn Plate" but the space between the bottom of your side shields and the floor of the stove makes me think it may have. Or else you were meant to leave a thick layer of ash or lay down a bed of dry sand to protect the bottom from excessive heat.


It depends what you mean by "early". The 602B has a double-hulled bottom, but the inside one isn't really considered a burn plate as such, and isn't meant to fill the space up to the bottom of the side burn plates. The stove is meant to be operated with a thick layer of ash on the bottom.


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## nola mike (Dec 5, 2010)

precaud said:
			
		

> It depends what you mean by "early". The 602B has a double-hulled bottom, but the inside one isn't really considered a burn plate as such, and isn't meant to fill the space up to the bottom of the side burn plates. The stove is meant to be operated with a thick layer of ash on the bottom.



mine doesn't have a "b" anywhere, so I assume it's the earliest?  even if operated on ash, why not extend the heat shields to the bottom?  i'll look into making a replacement...
@BG: "rock wood"=rock wool?  looks like there IS something held on the bottom with 4 bolts at the corners--i thought it was just the floor of the stove.  doesn't look too thick.  And a damper seems like a good idea.

About the chimney liner...will 5" pipe fit directly?  If so, seems I might as well use that, right?


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## precaud (Dec 5, 2010)

Mike, the 602 I had for many years wasn't a "B" and I don't think it had a double bottom. I never took it apart so I can't say for sure, but I believe that development came with the B's. I do remember in the 80's many of the box stoves came with instructions to put a layer of sand in the bottom. Waterford shipped some of their stoves with bags of refractory cement for the bottom.

The bolts at the corners are for securing the side plates.

I think 5" pipe will fit on the outside of the 602 chimney connector, though some may squawk about doing that. A 5" chimney works just fine. I have a 5" rigid liner for my X33 in the basement and it works great.


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## jruttle3 (Dec 5, 2010)

precaud said:
			
		

> It depends what you mean by "early". The 602B has a double-hulled bottom, but the inside one isn't really considered a burn plate as such, and isn't meant to fill the space up to the bottom of the side burn plates. The stove is meant to be operated with a thick layer of ash on the bottom.



Thanks for clarifying. You're right about the plates — checked mine and a side plate can go on either side, left or right.  And good tip about  using the Zircar RS-1200 for alternative  side plates.

About pre "B" model 602's, it seems that there is more than one uniform version.  BeGreen says his  602 DOES have a bottom burn plate (woodmans' terminology) with rock wool under it, as does my 602 B. I hope he weighs in again to say if his is held on with bolts at the corners, as Mike says his is.

For what it's worth, an original owner of a 1973 Jotul 118 has told me that the bottom plate with wavy ridges on his stove is held on with bolts at the corners (like Mike's) and there is no space with insulation under it. He says the manual that came with the stove calls for  two inches of sand on the bottom. I think one function of the wavy ridges is to preserve the sand layer when shoveling out ashes.


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## nola mike (Dec 5, 2010)

Thanks for all the replies! Still not clear if I have a bottom plate, but either way it seems that whatever I'm dealing with is adequate.  2" of sand would conveniently come to the bottom of the side shields, so that seems like the right move.  I wonder if that thick bed of ash would do the same thing?  Then I wouldn't have to worry about shoveling out sand--those ridges don't look like they'd do much.
Now I'm getting excited.  Next steps, clean old chimney, drop down some 5" liner, insulate, and warm the house.  Anyone know where I can find a manual for this thing?  I've found plenty for the newer version, but can't find anything for the old ones...


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## begreen (Dec 6, 2010)

I never use sand in our stove. It has a small fire chamber so I just leave enough ash to cover the bottom ribs in there when cleaning. Fresh ash will build up quickly.


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## jruttle3 (Dec 6, 2010)

OLd jotul manuals are  very hard to find.


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## precaud (Dec 6, 2010)

Odd, isn't it, since there were over a million of them printed... were they all used to kindle a fire?


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