# Old cast iron Sears top loader tips and tricks



## sardo_67 (Dec 2, 2018)

was talking to my GF about buying a wood stove for the garage so she gave me money for one as an early Christmas present last week.  Was looking to spend around 100-150, found a Sears top loader on CL for $150, offered 100, he said 125, he didn’t have change for 20s so I gave him $123. 

Got it hooked up and fired to burn the paint off the single wall pipe, test it as well.  I found it’s somewhat hard to control the heat from it and the stove pipe will glow red fairly easy.  Where should I mount the thermometer on the stove pipe to monitor temp, down towards the stove or where I have it now about 3ft up?

Should there be a baffle in the stove below the 6” chimney exit so direct flames don’t go up the chimney?

Also there are a lot of small gaps around the top parts and door, should I attempt to seal up the top with some type of fire caulk so I can better control the air flow or this is just how these stoves are?

I am not looking for anything crazy or like 90% efficiency here, just want an easy to run stable stove for my garage without having to worry about it running away or dying out.  

Attached pics of said stove.


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## begreen (Dec 2, 2018)

One does not "burn the paint off the stove pipe". It should never be glowing red. Not sure what other shortcuts were taken here but wood stoves in garages are against code and not permitted in most jurisdictions, nor by many insurance companies. These old stoves are hard to regulate. Often a stove pipe damper is needed to slow down the burn.


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## sardo_67 (Dec 2, 2018)

Ok well when you get new black single wall stove pipe it smokes terribly when you first fire the stove up.  What is it doing?


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## bholler (Dec 2, 2018)

sardo_67 said:


> Ok well when you get new black single wall stove pipe it smokes terribly when you first fire the stove up.  What is it doing?


You should be curing the paint.  But by the looks of it you may very well be burning it off.  That pipe is way to hot.  Like begreen said a solid fuel burnig stove by code cannot be installed in a space where gasoline is present.


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## sardo_67 (Dec 3, 2018)

Ya that’s what I thought.  I wasn’t trying to make it glow red.  


Ok so what is the correct way to cure the paint on black pipe?


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## begreen (Dec 3, 2018)

The paint is baked once it is up to 4-500º. To glow red like that the pipe was likely over 1000º and that is on the surface.


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## peakbagger (Dec 3, 2018)

There is no way to make this stove long burning or efficient. It is what it is and that's a cheap stove. Your only control is limit the amount of wood you burn to match the heat load and feed small amounts of wood frequently. Don't even try to get long burns, its designed to be leaky. 

I don't understand why you call it a top loader, the intent is its fed from the front door.


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## jatoxico (Dec 3, 2018)

Code violations not withstanding, it needs a stove pipe damper.


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## sardo_67 (Dec 3, 2018)

peakbagger said:


> There is no way to make this stove long burning or efficient. It is what it is and that's a cheap stove. Your only control is limit the amount of wood you burn to match the heat load and feed small amounts of wood frequently. Don't even try to get long burns, its designed to be leaky.
> 
> I don't understand why you call it a top loader, the intent is its fed from the front door.



The top swings to the side so you can top load it, I don’t know what to call it other than an old sears stove. 
I’m not wanting to turn this into an all nighter or anything lol.   Just wanted to see if it’s running normal. 




jatoxico said:


> Code violations not withstanding, it needs a stove pipe damper.



It does have one.  Or do you mean one inside the stove itself?


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## sardo_67 (Dec 7, 2018)

back to what i was originally asking, should i add a baffle inside the stove before the 6' exit to prevent flames from going directly up the single wall stove pipe?  i have a lot of scrap 1/4 plate laying around that i can fab up inside.


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## wooduser (Dec 10, 2018)

Wow!   Looks like you are getting a nice hot fire in that stovepipe in the first picture!

I guess that's why you'd like to install a baffle?


My steel stove is pre EPA,  and has a simple bracket at the back of the stove in which a piece of steel plate fits.  That functions to block the flame from going up the chimney.   The bracket doesn't really do the job by itself,  it tends to flop to one side and fall down after a while.

I've installed a piece of 1/2" steel pipe at the front of the stove to hold it in place. 

If you decide to do something like that ( I have no Xpertise to make a recommendation )  how would you support and install it?    The good thing about mine is that it lifts out pretty easily.  But if you have bright ideas on how you'd install a baffle,  I'd be glad to hear them and think about improving what I have.


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## begreen (Dec 11, 2018)

sardo_67 said:


> back to what i was originally asking, should i add a baffle inside the stove before the 6' exit to prevent flames from going directly up the single wall stove pipe?  i have a lot of scrap 1/4 plate laying around that i can fab up inside.


It probably won't hurt. Getting the length right may take a little experimenting.


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## coaly (Dec 11, 2018)

This is a Box Stove, the top opens to cook on it. The front door is the loading door.
Cast iron pans and pots set over the open eyes to allow direct contact with flame.
When you open two eyes with a center support, or a large oval opening it is for a laundry boiler. (copper laundry tub to wash clothes)

Was it glowing with the damper shut?? No part of stove or pipe should glow. That is overfiring. If it is an older damper, it may have a metered hole in the center which doesn't close enough. that was for coal stoves that you could also tilt the lids to allow air into the stove and cool the chimney for longer burns. You can't do that with wood since wood doesn't case where the air comes from and burns harder. Are you burning on about an inch of ash? Wood could be very dry, and try packing it tighter to prevent air flow through it.
A baffle in the stove adds resistance through the firebox which is what you need. I would add one if there is none. Is there something in the stove to set it on?
The damper is a variable resistance which is a chimney control that affects the stove by slowing incoming air. 2 dampers could be needed if the draft is still too strong.

I put the thermometer on the back side of the pipe so it isn't affect as much by the heat from the stove. Surface temp is about twice the actual flue gas temp. The object is keeping the chimney flue above 250* to the top. Any more than that is waste, any less can condense water vapor and accumulate creosote.

Your picture with flame visible under door shows the damper wide open. Only have it open when starting and slow the fire with damper when it gets burning too hard. In that pic it should have been half to fully closed.

Rutland Stove and Gasket Cement is used for filling gaps and leaks between parts. Imperial also makes stove cement sold at the big box hardware stores.

As stated above, code does not allow use of solid fuel burning appliance *where flammable vapors are present* OR in *any garage*. State and local building codes require all appliances to be UL listed with a tag, which this is not.


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## sardo_67 (Dec 11, 2018)

coaly said:


> This is a Box Stove, the top opens to cook on it. The front door is the loading door.
> Cast iron pans and pots set over the open eyes to allow direct contact with flame.
> When you open two eyes with a center support, or a large oval opening it is for a laundry boiler. (copper laundry tub to wash clothes)
> 
> ...



there is not however i was looking at drilling 4 holes in the back area of the stove, 2 on each side so i could put threaded rod thru and make a shelf for the plate to sit on, i would tac weld the plate to the threaded rod so it can't get knocked off and hold the rod in place with bolts so there is no welding to the cast iron.  


however i found another conventional steel and fire brick stove with the option for a blower add on and glass door for $50 so i'll be using that instead.
i feel much better about that one as i can close the damper and leave the garage if needed.

i have a shed in back where i keep fuel so there isn't any inside the garage unless it's in a vehicle.


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## coaly (Dec 11, 2018)

Keep the baffle so it is easily removable. It will warp and needs to be removed to beat back flat.


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## wooduser (Dec 11, 2018)

coaly said:


> When you open two eyes with a center support, or a large oval opening it is for a laundry boiler. (copper laundry tub to wash clothes)




https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=copperwash+tub&_sacat=0


Apparently it's true ---- you CAN find anything on Ebay!n  


Thanks for the comment  ---- I never would have guessed an old stove like this had a built in hot water boiler!


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## bholler (Dec 11, 2018)

wooduser said:


> https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=copperwash+tub&_sacat=0
> 
> 
> Apparently it's true ---- you CAN find anything on Ebay!n
> ...


It isn't a built in boiler is is just a cooktop with removable plates.  There were tons of stoves made like this.  The one in this thread is a later cheap copy of these stoves.  Some are still being sold but they are absolutely horrible and dangerous


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## sardo_67 (Dec 11, 2018)

bholler said:


> It isn't a built in boiler is is just a cooktop with removable plates.  There were tons of stoves made like this.  The one in this thread is a later cheap copy of these stoves.  Some are still being sold but they are *absolutely horrible and dangerous*



ya this looked like a good deal however upon using it, you are correct.  this is good stove for a cabin or somewhere one will be able to constantly monitor it.


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## bholler (Dec 11, 2018)

sardo_67 said:


> ya this looked like a good deal however upon using it, you are correct.  this is good stove for a cabin or somewhere one will be able to constantly monitor it.


The castings on your sears model are probably much better than the cheap chinese ones being sold now.  Your still isnt very controlable but atleast it probably wont fall to peices.


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## wooduser (Dec 11, 2018)

bholler said:


> It isn't a built in boiler is is just a cooktop with removable plates. There were tons of stoves made like this. The one in this thread is a later cheap copy of these stoves. Some are still being sold but they are absolutely horrible and dangerous




It's designed to be a CONVERTIBLE hot water heater!  Don't see that too often these days!

I see a lot of descriptions of complicated and perhaps dangerous way to heat water with a wood stove  ---the method pictured on this old stove looks better than most.


Personally,  I heat water during the summer in plastic jugs from the sun,  and during the heating season with a saucepan of water on my stove.  During the shoulder season,  a saucepan of water on my gas range.

Haven't had the gas water heater turned on in years.


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## bholler (Dec 11, 2018)

wooduser said:


> It's designed to be a CONVERTIBLE hot water heater!  Don't see that too often these days!
> 
> I see a lot of descriptions of complicated and perhaps dangerous way to heat water with a wood stove  ---the method pictured on this old stove looks better than most.
> 
> ...


No you don't see it often now because we don't need it.  We have lots of other ways to heat water.  I could live with heating water stovetop for most things but I need a shower when I come home.

Also regardless the stoves we have today will out perform even the good stoves this one is copying in every way.


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## coaly (Dec 12, 2018)

wooduser said:


> https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=copperwash+tub&_sacat=0
> 
> 
> Apparently it's true ---- you CAN find anything on Ebay!n
> ...


The reason for boiling clothes is there are 3 elements to keep in mind when cleaning.
1.) Dwell time of soap or strength of cleaner.
2.) Heat
3.) Agitation

Take away any of the three and you must increase another. So if you don't have hot water, stronger cleaning solution or agitation is required. If you don't have chemical or soap, more heat, such as steam when no soap or agitation is required. Back in the day, soap was not easily accessible, so it was common knowledge to use more heat and boil laundry. Shrinkage was the main issue, so clothes were made large since the first couple washings shrink material the most. In the case of washing boilers, a plunger type tool was used to agitate so laundry stoves were built low to give a good height to stand over to agitate. They were mostly coal so any air leak around the top didn't feed the fire like it will with wood. Cooking with open lids is just as fast as a gas range. Cooking on a regular stove top is closer to a simmer compared to flame contact or making the stove top extremely hot, overheating the rest of the house. Pans with smoke rings should be used for a better seal to the top. You can also start a small fire with just kindling during summer mornings and cook as soon as you have flames, letting it die when done before it heats the entire stove. It was common to put the stove on an open back porch in the summer to prevent excessive heat in the home.

Now you know why the )( piece between eyes is removable. By removing two eyes and the center piece you have an opening for larger griddles, boilers and wash tubs.


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## wooduser (Dec 12, 2018)

coaly said:


> The reason for boiling clothes is there are 3 elements to keep in mind when cleaning.
> 1.) Dwell time of soap or strength of cleaner.
> 2.) Heat
> 3.) Agitation
> ...




Thank you Coaly,  you are an education!

I've always thought that the most valuable home appliance was the washing machine,  since without it women were stuck with a whole bunch of demanding physical labor.  Washing clothes by hand is a LOT of WORK!

The idea of using hot water and a lot less labor never occurred to me.

And of course in the modern age,  we used HOT WATER,  DETERGENT of very high quality AND agitation in a washing machine,  all to end the scourge of "ring around the collar!"  m  (I'm imagining how many people have never heard of this!

And then in later decades we wound up debasing the detergent and being encouraged not to use hot water in washing machines.....


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## coaly (Dec 12, 2018)

Yeah, the first washing machines ran on the two cycle engine with the foot pedal starter, but you still had to heat the water on the stove.

You also had to do your laundry only on Mondays. Can you guess why?


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## sardo_67 (Dec 12, 2018)

bholler said:


> The castings on your sears model are probably much better than the cheap chinese ones being sold now.  Your still isnt very controlable but atleast it probably wont fall to peices.



hahah ya this is built well, just not good for my application is all.  



coaly said:


> Yeah, the first washing machines ran on the two cycle engine with the foot pedal starter, but you still had to heat the water on the stove.
> 
> You also had to do your laundry only on Mondays. Can you guess why?



no but please tell me


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## jatoxico (Dec 12, 2018)

coaly said:


> Yeah, the first washing machines ran on the two cycle engine with the foot pedal starter, but you still had to heat the water on the stove.
> 
> *You also had to do your laundry only on Mondays. Can you guess why?*



Nope, do tell.


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## coaly (Dec 12, 2018)

To prevent everyones laundry from getting black from cinders and soot, the railroads had to run what they called "clean stacks" on Mondays. That way everyone could hang their laundry out to dry that day. That led to townships and local governments to pass ordinances to prevent open burning in many locations on Mondays as well.


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## Connecticut Yankee (Dec 18, 2018)

bholler said:


> It isn't a built in boiler is is just a cooktop with removable plates.


A regular kitchen stove would have had at least two more cook-plates, a warming shelf, an oven, and a built-in reservoir for hot water.  You could remove the cooking plates and let the fire touch the pans directly, but that was not what my father's aunt or my mother's mother did.  Usually the cookware sat on the plate, and the plate was only removed to build up the fire under that particular location, for a higher cooking temperature.

My great aunt cooked on her wood stove all her life (until she modernized to coal), and she kept a box of scrap dowels near the stove for this purpose.  She had such control over that stove, it was incredible.  The bread she baked in it was so good that, twenty years after she stopped baking it to sell, people were_ still _stopping by to buy some.  I believe Grandma switched to an electric range, once Grandpa was able to force the power company to run a line to the farm in the early 1940's, but I know that for some time after they got power, she still used the wood stove to heat water for her laundry business.  My father's mother cooked in the fireplace for some time (either that or they were still using it for heat when Dad was young), because she told me about starting the baked beans on Friday and putting them in the Dutch oven; by Saturday night suppertime they would be tasty, but they didn't reach perfection until Sunday dinner.  Beans from a can just aren't the same, I'm told.

Bath time in Mom's house was Saturday night after supper, since it took most of the afternoon and early evening to haul in enough water and get it heated to bath temperature.  (The stove reservoir would have been inadequate to the purpose, so I imagine they must have heated the bath water on top of the stove.)  The tub would be set up in the middle of the kitchen, and there was a strict hierarchy of who got to bathe first, and who had to make do with used water.  At least after they got power, they were able to put a pump in the spring house and run water into the kitchen.  (Mom said that they also eventually installed an inside bathroom, but surely that had to have been after they got the hot water heater.)

Interesting about laundry day being Monday, I had a different explanation in mind, lol, but it was just a guess.  Diesel must have been a real boon, electric locomotives even more so.  Grandma had several sad irons, so that some could be heating on the stove while one was in use.  There was a detachable handle that one switched from iron to iron, I remember.  (When starting a fresh iron, you had to be sure to wipe the soot off before using it on the clothes.)  In later years, one of my aunts used a couple of those irons as doorstops.


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## Connecticut Yankee (Dec 18, 2018)

Just checked with Dad, and he says Nana cooked on a wood stove, but the Dutch oven was indeed part of the fireplace.  He doesn't remember laundry day being any particular day of the week, but perhaps that was because they lived far enough from the rail line that cinders weren't an issue.  Certainly that was true of my maternal grandparents' house in western New York, which was fortunate for Grandma's laundry business, lol!

Oh, and usually they didn't let the fire go out, even in summer.  Dad remembers banking it at night and re-kindling the stove in the morning.  That was my mother's job, too, when she was little.


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## bholler (Dec 18, 2018)

Connecticut Yankee said:


> A regular kitchen stove would have had at least two more cook-plates, a warming shelf, an oven, and a built-in reservoir for hot water.  You could remove the cooking plates and let the fire touch the pans directly, but that was not what my father's aunt or my mother's mother did.  Usually the cookware sat on the plate, and the plate was only removed to build up the fire under that particular location, for a higher cooking temperature.
> 
> My great aunt cooked on her wood stove all her life (until she modernized to coal), and she kept a box of scrap dowels near the stove for this purpose.  She had such control over that stove, it was incredible.  The bread she baked in it was so good that, twenty years after she stopped baking it to sell, people were_ still _stopping by to buy some.  I believe Grandma switched to an electric range, once Grandpa was able to force the power company to run a line to the farm in the early 1940's, but I know that for some time after they got power, she still used the wood stove to heat water for her laundry business.  My father's mother cooked in the fireplace for some time (either that or they were still using it for heat when Dad was young), because she told me about starting the baked beans on Friday and putting them in the Dutch oven; by Saturday night suppertime they would be tasty, but they didn't reach perfection until Sunday dinner.  Beans from a can just aren't the same, I'm told.
> 
> ...


Yes we work on quite a few cook stoves that are still used daily.  I have rebuilt most of them at least once.  My aunt still uses hers all winter and her 92 yr old mother inlaw still runs hers all winter as well.  Both of their stoves have had the water reservoir removed though.  The stoves usually work better without that resevoir sapping heat anyway.


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## Connecticut Yankee (Dec 18, 2018)

You can remove the reservoir?  Cool!  My memory of Great-Aunt Margaret's wood stove was that it was part of the casting, but I doubt I was really paying all that much attention.


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## bholler (Dec 18, 2018)

Connecticut Yankee said:


> You can remove the reservoir?  Cool!  My memory of Great-Aunt Margaret's wood stove was that it was part of the casting, but I doubt I was really paying all that much attention.


You can remove just about anything with the right tools lol.  But yes some just bolt on others are much more integrated and removal would not be a good option.  They're one of the things that typically need rebuilt  I usually make a new tank out of stainless for them.


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## SpaceBus (Dec 18, 2018)

bholler said:


> You can remove just about anything with the right tools lol.  But yes some just bolt on others are much more integrated and removal would not be a good option.  They're one of the things that typically need rebuilt  I usually make a new tank out of stainless for them.



Some day I want a wood cook stove, maybe a combi stove with propane and wood. Reading about how to control them makes me want one even more. I always assumed they would be much harder to regulate than an electric or gas range.


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## bholler (Dec 18, 2018)

SpaceBus said:


> Some day I want a wood cook stove, maybe a combi stove with propane and wood. Reading about how to control them makes me want one even more. I always assumed they would be much harder to regulate than an electric or gas range.


They are much harder to regulate.  It is takes quite a bit of experience to get it right.


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## SpaceBus (Dec 18, 2018)

bholler said:


> They are much harder to regulate.  It is takes quite a bit of experience to get it right.


I struggle with my glass top. Previously I had a gas range and I loved it. Which is why I want the combi stove, best of both worlds. Plus extra heat when needed in the winter.


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## bholler (Dec 18, 2018)

SpaceBus said:


> I struggle with my glass top. Previously I had a gas range and I loved it. Which is why I want the combi stove, best of both worlds. Plus extra heat when needed in the winter.


Yeah we just bought a new house and went from gas to glass top as well.  I do like some things about the new stove but prefer gas cooktop for sure.  We will switch out sometime


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## coaly (Dec 18, 2018)

They get really hot, really quick directly over the fire box, so you have to keep food moving or it is instant burn. You control heat on pans by moving the pots and pans around the stove top. When something tends to boil over, simply slide it away from the firebox side until you find the surface temperature you want. All the way over to the oven side is like a warming burner less than simmer. I keep coffee or tea cups there to keep it hot without evaporating the liquid quickly.
The oven seals in moisture from food, so it is more difficult to burn things in the oven with moist heat. The only time my wife burned anything from the oven was the first year making Christmas cookies. She ran out of counter space to set the cookie sheets coming out, and sat one on the stove top momentarily to make room on the countertop. Burnt the bottoms before she could get it off the stove top within seconds.

The other almost catastrophe I had was using a cast iron stove top waffle iron. When you oil them, you need very little oil to coat the inside. When you open it to add batter, the excess oil runs down the raised lid onto the 500* plus stove top. Instant flare up. Don't do that. If you open the eye and cook over the opening, it drips down into the firebox. That is another purpose for a "nest" of lids instead of one large one to adjust how much flame contact you get on smaller pans and kettles.


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## SpaceBus (Dec 18, 2018)

coaly said:


> They get really hot, really quick directly over the fire box, so you have to keep food moving or it is instant burn. You control heat on pans by moving the pots and pans around the stove top. When something tends to boil over, simply slide it away from the firebox side until you find the surface temperature you want. All the way over to the oven side is like a warming burner less than simmer. I keep coffee or tea cups there to keep it hot without evaporating the liquid quickly.
> The oven seals in moisture from food, so it is more difficult to burn things in the oven with moist heat. The only time my wife burned anything from the oven was the first year making Christmas cookies. She ran out of counter space to set the cookie sheets coming out, and sat one on the stove top momentarily to make room on the countertop. Burnt the bottoms before she could get it off the stove top within seconds.
> 
> The other almost catastrophe I had was using a cast iron stove top waffle iron. When you oil them, you need very little oil to coat the inside. When you open it to add batter, the excess oil runs down the raised lid onto the 500* plus stove top. Instant flare up. Don't do that. If you open the eye and cook over the opening, it drips down into the firebox. That is another purpose for a "nest" of lids instead of one large one to adjust how much flame contact you get on smaller pans and kettles.



My new Morso has fake nest rings, but I have seen what the real ones look like. I have a lot of experience cooking on a zoned flat top gas grill, so it sounds like something I can do. I haven't had an oil flare up, yet, but I have had my fair share of near catastrophes in the kitchen. I found an old cast iron pan left behind in the house, so eventually I'm going to clean it up and season it and try to make pancakes on the Morso. Would you recommend fine grade steel wool for cleaning rusty cast iron? I've used salt and regular scouring pads in the past, but I also have a lot of steel wool.

The moist heat oven sounds awesome.


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## SpaceBus (Dec 18, 2018)

bholler said:


> Yeah we just bought a new house and went from gas to glass top as well.  I do like some things about the new stove but prefer gas cooktop for sure.  We will switch out sometime



It is definitely easier to clean, but I feel like it gets dirty immediately. The burner temperature knobs might as well be a heat suggestion on my stove. We just got a set of new pans, so I've been extra vigilant.


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## coaly (Dec 18, 2018)

You can clean cast iron with anything, even a wire wheel in drill when really bad. Season pan in oven to polymerize the oil coating. We use cast, but aluminum All-Clad flat griddle type pans as well. They conduct fast and are flat for better surface contact. When it comes to griddles for flat stove top, you have to use antiques that have full contact. All the newer stuff has raised lips around the edge preventing flat surface contact. They are made for gas or electric stove top burners.


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## bholler (Dec 18, 2018)

coaly said:


> You can clean cast iron with anything, even a wire wheel in drill when really bad. Season pan in oven to polymerize the oil coating. We use cast, but aluminum All-Clad flat griddle type pans as well. They conduct fast and are flat for better surface contact. When it comes to griddles for flat stove top, you have to use antiques that have full contact. All the newer stuff has raised lips around the edge preventing flat surface contact. They are made for gas or electric stove top burners.


My pans don't have a lip at all.  They are made to have full contact for a glass top.


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