# My Varm project...



## maple1

I thought I would do this when it was done, but decided to get it going now. I'll see if I can stumble my way through all the pic posting and try to keep things in order & noted right. Pics are cell phone mostly, so some not the best quality.

I didn't take all the pics I should have. First big thing done was buying & bringing my tanks home. Meant to snap a pic of the pile I picked out of at the scrapyard, but this is the first one I have of them. Brought them home mid-May, wire wheeled & painted them, then took to welder to get fittings welded on. This is after that, patiently awaiting a few welding touch ups:







Lesson: Try to make sure you dont get cast fittings.

Next big event was the day the boiler arrived:






Lesson: Watch the exchange rates. I was doing that but had no choice than to buy when I did. Just happened to be when our dollar was at its lowest point in the past year. Soon as I decided to pull the trigger, down they want like a rock. Now they're back up. Uggh - likely cost me around $500.

Before shot of the boiler area. I should have taken a pic before I cleaned out under & around the steps. It was ugly, 17 years worth of ugly:






Kijiji find - electric boiler for backup & circulator:






First fitting splurge. Turned out to be a drop in the bucket:






Lesson: Multiply fitting estimates by at least 4.

New 80 gallon electric hot water heater:






Lesson: Should have got off the oil long ago. And these things are heavy.

Insulate the stair wall, 1.5" of foam board over 3.5" of fiberglass. Fiberglass was left over from the house build 17 years ago:






Getting into things:






Decided to try one of these mickey mouse crimpers:






They actually don't work too bad once you get the hang of them & the vice grips set right. I'd get real ones though if I was going to be using them anything more than infrequently.

Expansion tank experiment:






Have yet to see how good it will work. Sure as heck is cheaper than real ones.

Got tanks stacked. Man was it hot this day:






And in they go:






Lesson: when you ask your kid to help you, and he says soon as we're done swimming, just go ahead & do it yourself.

New boiler unpacking day:






'Just put that thing on that stand'. Sure sounds easy enough - turned out to be kind of tricky.

But it got up there. And in it goes:






I won't post the lesson there, I'll see if someone spots it. But I can't believe I did that - what a dummy.

Big week this week from skipping out on work a couple hours here and there. Filled the storage tanks with water - not one drip or leak (yes!), except for when I ran them over for just a few seconds. Got the oil tank pumped out (only got two jugs out of it - we were running on fumes) and old boiler all unhooked & up on a pallet & moved out of place, oil line cut & hole in floor patched & floor painted over, chimney swept for I hope the last time ever. Now all ready to go full bore on the assembly & moving the new boiler in place after another trip to supply store:






Lesson: everything associated with this project is heavy. Thank god for levers, shims, dollies & pallet jacks.

That's where I am now - can't wait to get things together and light this puppy. Still have a ton of other things to do after that like insulating & covering the tanks in, then I suppose I should be getting my wood inside before it really starts getting cold. Darned good thing I started this way back in May. Will be more to come...


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## Clarkbug

Awesome work Maple!

Definitely keep the pics/posts coming!  Very excited to see how the rest of the install goes. 

And I dont think your expansion tank is a fake one at all!  They will work that way without a bladder, just try to make sure you have a way to add pressure in there if you need to....

And yeah, its NOT easy to get the boiler up on the stand.  That was a real PITA for me.


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## maple1

Clarkbug said:


> Awesome work Maple!
> 
> Definitely keep the pics/posts coming! Very excited to see how the rest of the install goes.
> 
> And I dont think your expansion tank is a fake one at all! They will work that way without a bladder, just try to make sure you have a way to add pressure in there if you need to....
> 
> And yeah, its NOT easy to get the boiler up on the stand. That was a real PITA for me.


 
Plan A was to lift it by fittings screwed into the centre top hole. I got all ready to do that, then realized it was a 1" hole & I only had 1-1/4 fittings then. Crap. I managed to slip the forks in under the boiler, lift it off the pallet, let it down on the stand on some shims, then pry & wiggle those out. Wasn't much room to come & go on. I also took the ceramics out to lighten things up a bit.

You didn't spot the big 'aw crap' thing yet? It's stand related - still shaking my head about it...


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## velvetfoot

Awesome!


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## rkshed

Alright, I give up.
What is the aw crap moment?
Great pictures.
Fell like i'm watching an episode of this old house.


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## bogydave

All I can say is :
WOW!

Awesome pictures. Lots of work in them. Looks like lots more work to follow.
Keep the pics & progress reports coming


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## TheMightyMoe

Hahahahha awww crap!


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## BoilerMan

OH MAN..... now I hafta turn........ I mean......Awwwww Crap!

TS


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## maple1

Close enough. In all the rushing around when I had the boiler teetering around in the air, I put the stand under it backwards. Never noticed until I had it wheeled inside & came back later to re-assess fittings. Wasn't going through that again so just dug out a small wire feed welder & welded a couple more pieces of angle iron to hold the ash pan, on the other end. Looks like it came that way now with some new paint in the right places. Didn't turn out to be a big deal but it wasted a couple hours.


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## Clarkbug

So when do you think you will be able to have the first fire?

I would suggest bringing your wood in first and THEN insulate everything.  I would want to get it all good and hot to see if any new leaks show up.  Im hoping not, but you never know what will happen when things expand and contract some.  Much easier if you dont have to pull wet insulation out of the way, or if its all sealed up and you cant see it.  Plus any wood thats in your basement near those tanks gets to dry out a little bit more 

I also put a five gallon bucket under the pressure relief for the first few firings until I get the loading based on the weather forecast down.  The 22 PSI (or so) rating combined with not knowing how much wood it took to heat the tanks left a big puddle for me to clean up a few times.  Plus I think I had overfilled the system to start, so it was the best way to make sure things got purged out.  I still need to add a few more air vents to my piping.


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## maple1

Yes, wood first is my plan. It should have been in a month ago, it was a real dry summer now it's been raining a lot the past couple weeks. Have some inside left over from last year, tonights chore will be rearrange that & other stuff before I move my boiler into place. Will do insulation the very last - at least then I'll have lots of heat if I still have some things left to tie up on the distribution side.

22psi - that's not real high, I hadn't done the metric conversion on the valve rating. I had planned on the bucket, will make sure on that now. It will likely stay there too. I'm hoping now for first fire next weekend. With a big maybe.


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## Clarkbug

Yeah, I think the Varms (mine at least) is rated to something like 1.5 bar that equates to 22 or 23 PSI.  I have a LOT of expansion tank, and even with that I had some weeping the first few times I pushed my storage up over 190 from top to bottom.  Since then I have purged some air (and water to go with it), so my pressures are way down to start the season.  I may just fire the boiler up with my punky stuff to get some heat in the tanks and see where the pressures go before I add any more back into the system.


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## maple1

What was your cold start PSI? And are you heating one story or two?


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## Clarkbug

maple1 said:


> What was your cold start PSI? And are you heating one story or two?



I think I was aiming for 10 psi, but then I realized the gage was broken on the oil boiler, which is what I was using.  Heating two stories.

Plus I filled my system from the bottom of the tanks via a hose bib to help with air purging.  So the autofill valve didnt help.  

I would say dial your fill back to the minimum (10 psi usually) to start and see if your circs are ok with it that low.


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## BoilerMan

The lower the psi in the system, the better to use "pumping away" piping scheme.  Install all circulators on the _supply_ and keep all piping on the big side to avoid cavitation.

TS


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## Clarkbug

Taylor is right.  the lower PSI can be bad for pumps and air entrapment in the piping.  Im currently not set up that way (used the previous pumping scheme that was in the house) and I was OK this past year, I think.  But if I had it to start from scratch, I would definitely put my circs on the supply side, and the expansion tank before the pumps.  Right now Im the opposite of both of those things


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## maple1

I just plumbed in my load circ, and it's on the return down low. I do have the expansion tank just upstream of the circ - just finished airing it up to 10 PSI for now, hope there's no leaks as there was quite a bit of jigging around getting the new piping lined up with the expansion piping which has been sitting there since July. Had to take a bit apart in a real tight space & put a shorter nipple in to finally get it lined up right. My back is starting to flare up after all that.

Actually, isn't the loading valve (laddomat) unit & circ also mounted on the return side and low? Actually in every picture or diagram I see I think? So isn't that contrary to 'circ on supply' thinking?


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## BoilerMan

This is the worst way to do it Maple. Go to heating help and search for "pumping away" and you'll see why. If the expansion tank is upstream of the circ. the circ's head pressure compresses the air in the exp tank lowering the system pressure even more before the circ making flash boiling more likely in a lower pressure situation like a 10psi start up.
Think about it this way, if the circulator is _pushing_ water into the boiler, it is also pushing water into the expansion tank. Now the pressure is lower in the piping after the expansion tank connection in the piping, and that lower pressure is all that is relied upon to bring water bask to the circulator.
Now move the circulator to the supply after the expansion tank connection, and it's head pressure is _pushing_ the water through the heating circuit, adding to the static pressure of the system. Water can't be _pulled_ by anything ever! It is only pushed be the pressure in the system to the circulator's inlet volute.
That pressure feeding the circulator what is left after going through the whole heating circuit and after the expansion tank, or from the large low loss boiler and the expansion tank is just absorbing the difference in water volume from the heat.
I hope that made sense to someone other than me.


*Best way:*

Boiler, expansion tank, at least 5 feet of pipe, circulator, check valve, heating circuit, (alternate check valve location), back to boiler. Pumping away = pump head pressure+ system static pressure.

*Worst way:*

Boiler, check valve, heating circuit, circulator, expansion tank, back to boiler. Sytem static pressure - head loss of heating circuit.


The old adage of the circulator lasting longer due to being cooler is no longer true, it was back in the day of mechanical seals in circulators.  With cartridge circulators with wet rotors, there is no longer a seal to fail from heat, and the motor is made for 240F+ fluid temps.     

TS


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## maple1

Too late in the day for me to think more about this - I'll try to do some tomorrow.

But when I say the expansion is upstream of the circ, that means it pulls from the expansion tank when it pushes into the boiler. (And also pulls through the zones from the top of the boiler?). Simply put, following the flow backwards (upstream) from the bottom of the boiler, it goes boiler, circ, then a T to expansion one way and the zones the other way back around to the top of the boiler.

I don't know - that's the way my current system was hooked up for 17 years (circ on the return of the boiler) and it ran like a top - just that the boiler was, umm, a less than desirable performer.


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## Clarkbug

Taylor has described the pumping away concept pretty well.  But you are OK for the most part since your expansion tanks are before your circs.  Im set up the worst way on my oil boiler, circs ahead of boiler, expansion after.

You are right as far as the storage goes, that the laddomat is on the return side, but if you just look at the little mini loop between wood boiler and storage, there isnt really a good place of no pressure change to add expansion.  I just have my expansion tied to my storage and called it a day.


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## Hobartian

A very interesting thread and one that I will keep watching. Obviously a lot of money and energy spent but a great investment.


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## BoilerMan

maple1 said:


> I don't know - that's the way my current system was hooked up for 17 years (circ on the return of the boiler) and it ran like a top - just that the boiler was, umm, a less than desirable performer.


 
Old air-tight wood boilers worked too, but gassifiers work better. 
It worked, but now your dealing with wood, storage, higher temps, higher flows, than the old oil boiler, and a lower system pressure, all adding up to more of a need to pump away.  Don't get me wrong you can do what you want, it's a free country.....and your in Canada.......  Anyhow, pumping away on the supply of a wood boiler just reduces the risk of flash boiling water in the pump volute, and cavatation or micro-cavatation causing pump impeller degradation, it also and makes air elimination better, and makes the best use of the pump's wattage.  Just what I've been told by those who are in the know on these things, and if one thinks about it, it makes a lot of sense.  

TS


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## maple1

The old boiler is wood & oil both, so I've been burning wood and the system has been dealing with wood heat since the house was built 17 years ago. I do realize that a gasifier will put out more heat that my old one (darned well better after all this), but I've also got all that storage now and a fancy laddomat thing to move the heat to it - so the distribution sytem itself shouldn't be seeing higher temps or flows than before since it will be drawing though storage. I had some fairly hot events with the old one over the years - waking up to rumbles in the basement because the draft door hung up for some weird reason is kind of un-nerving. System pressure on it was about 12 cold, and I don't think it ever went over 20 - that's kind of what I'm hoping to see with this setup too.

I also made sure to plumb the expansion so that it comes in on the suction side of the load circulator - which is what I meant when I said up stream from the pump.

I will definitely keep the pumping away in mind if things turn out to not work quite the best - at this point I'll be trying what I have hooked up first, then if changes are needed I'll make them. I'm sure there will be some wrinkles along the way. Or I should say more wrinkles.


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## velvetfoot

A guy at work told me the same thing about pumping away, though my 7 year old oil system was plumbed the same as maple's.  I guess there's a lot of inertia among installers.

Also, I think maple is replacing a working wood/oil boiler


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## BoilerMan

Ok, I see what you mean now Maple, your not in the worst way if the expansion is on the suction side, thats all that really matters in the whole concept..... 


velvetfoot said:


> I guess there's a lot of inertia among installers.


 
You wouldn't believe how many people still think that leaving a car battery on the floor somehow ruins it or discharges it.  When I was a mechanic, customers would sass me all the time for setting their battery on the concrete shop floor while I was working on their car.........

TS


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## maple1

After way too many way too late nights in a row in the basement, I'm taking this one off - so time for an update.

This has been a heavily fueled project:







New boiler got wheeled into place, after fixing my backwards ash pan issue:






There are gaps in this, once again I didn't stop to take many pictures. So jumping ahead a bit, a few pictures of things half done as they stand now. Boiler front all plumbed up:






I put two tridicators in the boiler outlet & inlet. Just because, mainly. Also tranferred the fresh supply components from the old boiler. Closer here - but a dark pic:






Stepping back a bit, there's the stack exit, new dump zone above and existing supply line above that, new hot water tank, electric boiler, aquastat & sidearm in background, and monometer upper right:






Stepping around the back a bit to the other side (tight busy space back there), looking down is the return line. Zones on left, sidearm next, then connections to storage thru wye to boiler:






Stepping further, looking up at top piping. Existing return manifold at top, diagonaling down to retun at bottom, supply header with aquastat, top of electric boiler & its circulator. Some of that looks confusing with parts blocked by piping:






Then just to the left, above & behind the electric boiler, is the sidearm. One of few things I have any insulation on so far:






I used 1" pipe for supply & return on that, as that is what the sidearm fittings were. But I should have reduced it - I think too much my flow goes through that when the load circ is on. For now I've got the ball valve partly closed. I'll be adding more controls to that circuit eventually, the zone valve isn't wired up. Right now it's just heating the hot water tank by convection when hot water isn't being used. And I had to partly close the valve on the domestic through line, because with it open all the way the water was short circuiting through the sidearm to the tap when hot water was being used & not getting hot enough.

Here's another shot of the expansion tank all hooked up after some expansion action:






Have to thank whoever it was here that tried the fishing float thing. Not sure how long it will last, but I like it. I also have discovered another issue here. The load circ is just the other side of the wall, and when it first starts, it seems to do most of it's pulling from the tube. The float drops like a rock out of sight. I might have pulled a little air once before I noticed what was going on. I will pull apart the top of the tube & choke that down from 3/4 to something real small to try to stop that from happening.

On the expansion topic, I hooked up my old one to the top of the boiler, same as it was before - since it was right there anyway. I added enough parts to give another sight guage, a pressure guage for it, and a way to add air:






(Not a good pic).

Here's the flue temp thermostat that starts the loading unit. Found these neat little LED indicator lights at the supplier, this one is on when there is electricty being sent to the loading unit:






I've got it set to turn the loader on at a bit over 100c exhaust temp. The power for it though also runs through a 6006 aquastat (in fresh feed parts pic above with cover off), so if the exhaust temp thermo fails for some reason, it will also start the loader when top of boiler water gets to 185f or so. That was Deans suggestion and it works great.

This kept me up way past midnight a couple nights ago and was the biggest pain so far. It's on the supply return line (so no heat to rads). After several unsuccessful attempts at stopping the leak in the very rear of the bottom of the 45 fitting by soldering upside down in place, and one quick grab for the garden hose, I ended up cutting a big section of piping out with the recip saw after discovering I had an extra coupling & union left over. I should have done that right off the bat. Took 2 minutes to resolder the leak once I had it out in the open & right side up, and a half hour or so to get the piping back in place & re-do the joints:






So the big event was Monday night - first fire. It took me a while to get a fire going - the refractory was way wet (it looked dry but I couldn't believe the water that was running out the bottom once the heat got going), everything was ice cold, and it was fairly warm out. There was no draft registering on the manometer at first. And I was in a hurry so didn't build it very good. But after a half hour of coaxing, and getting the draft to build, we had this:






I stared at that for a good hour. SInce then it has been a lot better. I was just down an hour ago to do another short burn (they've all been small loads so far), and took this sequence. Did a quick clean & unearthed not many hot coals (last fire was a small one this morning). Split some fine stuff, layer with paper then more wood. By the time I got that done, the paper was smoking:






Note no smoke outside. It all gets sucked in through the bypass and right up the chimney. No smoke in the house and no smoke hood required. I looove that. Manometer was about 0.05 before fire.

Then I grabbed the torch, and aimed:






Before I hit the trigger, flames erupted in the fire box, so I put the torch down & snapped another quick pic:






Closed the door and waited 5 minutes while I took some of these pics to close the bypass & start the gassing.

So, I've been heating the house and DHW by gassification since Monday, and the only electricity being used is what is running the 15-58 on low on the loading unit when burning. Even then I think it would all circulate by convection without that running - say in a power outage. With the tanks hot in the basement and uninsulated, the first floor & basement maintains. If I need heat in the second floor, I just manually open a couple of zone valves for a while. Next thing to do is get all my controls wired up so thermostats will be functioning again, and backup is functional. And put more wood in if we can get a few days with no rain (that's the priority). So far, I am marvelling at the way this thing works and burns all by natural draft. I think I had 0.05 on the manometer in the first gassing pic above. The unit specs for 0.08, I'm usually around 0.1 - my chimney is about 30ft. tall. I put the barometric damper back in mainly for winds. I think it would gas quite good enough on less draft than spec'd.

That took way longer than I thought it would...


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## Floydian

"That took way longer than I thought it would". Do you mean your post or your install?  sorry....

Seriously, congrats! Nice job.

Noah


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## BoilerMan

Maple, looks like you have it working well!  Looks like quite a tinker toy though....   LOL, if I hadn't got the deal I did on the Attack, I'd have bought a Varm, great boiler!  Great simple Sweedish design.

TS


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## maple1

'Way longer' - that would be the post and the install. There were long periods of nothing done over the spring & summer, and it's been a one-man job. Still a lot to do, hopefully the tinker-toy effect will be not as bad once things are all tied in & cleaned up. I didn't have to put all that fresh feed stuff on there, but it was put there on the original install for code & insurance reasons 17 years ago - so I just moved it over. I keep it valved off except if the pressure gets low, then I just open a valve to slowly add more water. Definitely adds to the clutter though. I also just transferred all 3 aquastats from the old unit, since I wanted to maintain all their functions for backup control etc.. That leaves me with one extra 24v circuit that was used for the old draft door motor, but I plan to use that to power the sidearm zone valve. I could likely have done with less stuff there too.

One thing I did find out after the fact, is about the built-in cooling coil. You can see the copper stubs of it with red caps on, in the pic that shows the manometer. It will not be used, since I have good dump zone protection. I think it could be used as a DHW pre-heating coil, if you wanted. It is not a big coil, and not very big pipe (Euro copper '1/2' is slightly smaller than our '1/2'), but you could plumb at least part of your DHW tank feed (might not be enough flow through that small pipe if you sent it all through there) to go through that and help with heating DHW. Still in the back of my mind, but for now I have something else planned for that. There will be more updating sometime later.


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## wardk

maple1 said:


> 'Way longer' - that would be the post and the install. There were long periods of nothing done over the spring & summer, and it's been a one-man job. Still a lot to do, hopefully the tinker-toy effect will be not as bad once things are all tied in & cleaned up. I didn't have to put all that fresh feed stuff on there, but it was put there on the original install for code & insurance reasons 17 years ago - so I just moved it over. I keep it valved off except if the pressure gets low, then I just open a valve to slowly add more water. Definitely adds to the clutter though. I also just transferred all 3 aquastats from the old unit, since I wanted to maintain all their functions for backup control etc.. That leaves me with one extra 24v circuit that was used for the old draft door motor, but I plan to use that to power the sidearm zone valve. I could likely have done with less stuff there too.
> 
> One thing I did find out after the fact, is about the built-in cooling coil. You can see the copper stubs of it with red caps on, in the pic that shows the manometer. It will not be used, since I have good dump zone protection. I think it could be used as a DHW pre-heating coil, if you wanted. It is not a big coil, and not very big pipe (Euro copper '1/2' is slightly smaller than our '1/2'), but you could plumb at least part of your DHW tank feed (might not be enough flow through that small pipe if you sent it all through there) to go through that and help with heating DHW. Still in the back of my mind, but for now I have something else planned for that. There will be more updating sometime later.


Great job Maple,a lot of work but worth it when you feel the heat. Like you I did it myself and it seems like I was at boiler trade school for the last few months,and by doing it yourself you can look at it and understand what every piece does because you installed it.There are two terms  Laddomat  and Manometer , can you explain?


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## BoilerMan

Maple, mine has (all Euro solid fuel boilers) the overheat coil as well.  Mine is steel though  so I'm just gonna leave it with the factory plastic caps.  It is actually illegal to use the cool down coil as means of boiling protection in North America, by code we all need to have a pressure relief valve for boiling protection.  You can still use the coil though as long as you have a relief valve which you do.  Just thinking out loud here.  I like the Varm very much, and I like zone valves over circulators as well. 

TS


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## maple1

wardk said:


> Great job Maple,a lot of work but worth it when you feel the heat. Like you I did it myself and it seems like I was at boiler trade school for the last few months,and by doing it yourself you can look at it and understand what every piece does because you installed it.There are two terms Laddomat and Manometer , can you explain?


 
I might have used the wrong word in a place or two along the way, or switched them around by accident - along with the odd typo. Manometer is the Dwyer unit mounted up high in one of the pics - it's attached to the flue pipe & tells how much draft there is. Laddomat is the loading unit - you can partly see it in the rear low piping picture. It encorporates a Grundfos 15-58 3 speed circulator and internal thermostat. It moves the hot water from the boiler to storage and system while maintaining a constant 135-140° degree boiler return temperature. It also opens to allow gravity flow on power outage, and when the circ shuts off at end of burn also allows gravity feed to get the last of the heat from the dying fire to storage. It's kind of an expensive unit, but it works very good. I haven't moved it off the low speed setting. It has 3 thermometers on it for bypass, in from storage, and out to boiler return - but with where it ended up in my plumbing I have to go around back to see them.


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## maple1

On the coil, the unit comes with a pressure relief valve too. I'm pretty sure using both is standard procedure in Europe, and just the coil is a no-no everywhere. The manual specs the valve. I just found it interesting that there's a potential DHW coil built in but it's not designed as that therefore not mentioned as that - quite a potential side benefit.


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## BoilerMan

Mine says that it is un-lawful to use the coil for anything other than boiler cool down. In Europe of course, here in the States we can do what we want with it!  Great translation from the Polish I know. 

TS


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## Clarkbug

Very happy for you Maple!  Looks like quite the setup.

How is the natural draft working out for you so far?  Drawing OK even with the "mild" temps?  I would have loved to have gone that route, I just didnt have enough chimney to pull it off....


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## maple1

Natural draft is great - I love the fact this thing burns the way it does with no electricity. The only issue for me is it is kind of slow to get going if the boiler hasn't burned for a while (like a day) and it and the chimney have cooled down. It would be better if I had better fire starting material & more of it. It's kind of like getting a big turbo charger spooled up - when cold it takes a few minutes after you stomp on the gas until the boost hits. I'm calling it my turbo-lag. Tonight, I hadn't burned since last night and I waited about 15 minutes from the time I lit the fire until I closed the bypass. It fires right up again no problem though if there are coals left and your chimney is still warm - just unearth the coals and rake them into a couple of small piles, load with splits, close the door, close the bypass and you're gassing. I'm still experimenting - tonight I took one turb out and saw an improvement in stack temps. They went up a bit and with that my draft went up - to about 0.13". I will likely take Deans suggestion & cut them in half and fine tune with half sections - more for winter less for summer. I think this thing would work with less chimney than the lit specs, given the drafts I'm seeing and how it's working now.


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## Clarkbug

Good to know!  It probably burns sorta like some of the EPA wood stoves to start.  I can understand its harder to get it spooled up without that induction fan going, but its awesome that it works so well.  Have you made any adjustments to the little window as far as your secondary air at all?


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## maple1

I've played with it, but to tell the truth when I did I couldn't tell that it made much of a difference. Maybe it will once I get the burn tuned in otherwise. I think maybe I'll try it with another turb out next. The burns so far are peaking with a stack temp of around 200c, and recommended is 250-300. I still haven't loaded it full though - but it's been a few days since I heard anybody complain about a chilly house. I peeked in the baro damper opening this morning - clean as a whistle in there. With my old one, the baro would be starting to stick from creosote by now. So I'm way beyond happy with how it's burning. I think yours has the same window - what are your experiences with it?


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## Clarkbug

I dont seem to get much difference either, but I did open it up quite a bit half way through last season. I found that things didnt look different, but it changed the color the ash I was pulling out of the Hx tubes.  Also helped my temps out quite a bit.

But I typically never see above 200 C in my burns, usually around 175 C.  I dont think I can get it higher than that without dirty tubes.


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## BoilerBob

Congrats on your install Maple, sounds like it is working just fine for you.
I think after 2 fires you can officially retire "Benjamin" from your profile, you must be proud of doing the install yourself.
I am happy for you, I think you've wanted a gasser for a while now.


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## maple1

Yes, I should update the profile maybe - I'll put that on the to do list.

I've gotten lazy the last couple of days & taken a break from the boiler work, now that I'm getting heat from it when I want. I've got a couple of fittings to re-do that are seeping a bit when the boiler cools down, then it'll be wire in all the controls. I've decided not to insulate the tanks until the spring, the heat goes right to the basement & first floor anyway, and the wood I'm putting in needs some drying - it's been rained on for over a month, steady. What part of the province are you in? Maybe we're neighbours...


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## scooby074

Nice Install!

Do we have a Varmebaronen dealer in the province?


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## maple1

No we don't. That was kind of a disappointment in this whole thing too - there are next to no gassifying dealers of any kind around here. There is a place selling Empyres in the Valley, and I saw Econoburns advertised in NB somewhere. Mine came via Smokeless Heat in Pennsylvania (they do all of North America I think). I could see where maybe service could be a bit difficult on both ends for future service related stuff just because of the distance and border in between, but all is very good so far with that in getting me up & going. Freight + duty + taxes totalled around $1500 total, and it only took a week or so for it to show up at my driveway. Watch the exchange rates though - they're a lot better now than when I bought. And if you or someone you know is planning a trip down that way with a truck or trailer, you'd save money on the freight.


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## scooby074

Thanks Maple. Im gathering info for a future home build. And I agree the lack of gassification dealers is real disappointing. About the only guy I found was the man selling Walltherms in CB. Walltherms are nice, but I dont believe they will be large enough.

If its not a Kerr or Wood Doctor nobody knows anything about it. Discouraging.

Who is carrying the Empyres?


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## maple1

Hearth Energy in Berwick.

http://www.hearthenergy.com/furnace.html

I called them way back in the Spring - I don't think they had been carrying them that long. He was quite enthusiastic on them though.

It's twice as disappointing when you consider all the furnace/boiler manufacturers we have here locally - three within an hour of me. But they're all stuck in the stone ages with wood burning tech. Too bad Kerr didn't keep the Jetstream going.


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## scooby074

Thanks, Ill keep that for future reference. Just read about the Kerr Jetstream  due to your post. That was quite a unit! Seems like it was way ahead of its time.  Kerr isnt the same company since it was bought out though.

As a side note, Ive been reading up on Wood Doctor... quite a mess there!


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## maple1

Another quick update.

Took a few pics during a burn a couple nights ago. Cell phone pic doesn't do the flame justice, I'll have to work on my lighting:






The barometer was here:






And the barometric damper was here:






It was a windy evening, usually the draft is about 0.12 and the baro is closed.

The stack temps were here:






That's about 220c on the dial, only about 100c on the magnetic guage.

I'm trying some experimenting. This thing has a big gassing hole to the secondary chamber, I've found quite a few times that a pile of coals had fallen through and had the hole pretty well blocked. They eventually burned away, but right now I'm trying a fireplace grate with the legs cut off:






I've burned three times with it and I think it helps. I don't have to worry about paper etc. falling into the secondary chamber when building a fire, and the coals stay right up under the wood (for the most part). Not sure how long it will last, but we'll see.

Due to the mild temps, it's been hot as double hockey sticks on the first floor when I've been burning to raise my tank temps. I decided I had to throw some insulation around the tanks or else just stop burning - and I couldn't do that.






Just some 1 1/2in foam board with fiberglass laid in top. The other end is still open. It helped but I need more, it was all I had on hand - so this is very temporary. Stopped at the local building supply place today looking for a bundle of Roxul but they don't carry it. Next time I'm a bit further away I'll get some.

Also decided I had to hook up one of my thermometers even if it was a Red Greene job for now:






The ones I got take two probes, and alternate the display between them every 4 seconds. I stuck probes on the middle of the two tanks for now - think it's showing the top one here. I'm still looking for a decent box to mount them in.

Right now it's finally below freezing outside (-2c). But it's still 26c in the living room, 25c in the far end of the first floor and 23c upstairs. Haven't had anything going through the rads for two weeks now. I just can't stop burning this thing though - not sure why.


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## maple1

I forgot to add: when I first started burning I had burning paint smell. I thought it was from the BBQ paint I used to touch up the smoke pipe I re-used. I was just burning to maintain some heat in the tanks, and the smell went away. Last couple of days I've been driving my tanks temps up - and the smell is back, maybe even worse. So I'm pretty sure it's the rust paint I used to paint my tanks with. Keeping the basement door shut & the Venmar on, so it's mostly just in the area around the basement door. But it stinks.

And another add: I've got all my turbs pulled out right now, but will be putting at least one back as it gets a bit colder. I still don't think I've seen 250c on the thermometer, but it also isn't right at the pipe exit - likely a foot & a half away from it.


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## Clarkbug

Now that you are up and running Maple you could put some of the Turbs back in I would think.  I only pulled mine out until I got some heat in my tanks, since I didnt want the colder temps to start condensing in my chimney.  Did your Varm come with two long turbs and three short ones?  Or is that a different configuration?  I dont usually ever top over 200C with all of my turbs in, at least with clean tubes.


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## maple1

Mine came with just 3 long ones. I have 3 long up tubes & 3 short ones - is yours the same? And yes I'll likely put at least one turb back in on the next burn. It did OK with two out when it was quite warm out, I just pulled the third to see what that would do. I think it might have given me a bit faster start - but I'm also trying to be more careful & deliberate in my cold start fire building. It's also easier to clean the tubes with no turbs there - playing to some laziness.


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## Clarkbug

I have three short turbs that sit horizontally at the very top of the boiler.  They run from the small chamber where the bypass flap is to back where my fan is.  I also have two long curved turbs that fit in the two tubes that go from the bypass chamber down to the back of the combustion tunnel. 

For my cold start I pulled the three short turbs out completely until I had burned through a few loads of pine that I had.  That dried out my ceramic and I got most of the moisture out of my boiler and chimney that way.  After that, I just threw the turbs back in and have been burning as per the normal routine when I needed it (a few nights a week).  I did change things up some this season, and I am using 1/4 of a super cedar as a fire starter instead of the paper/cardboard that I was using last year.  That was giving me a lot of fly ash that I didnt really like, and the super cedars work really well. 

I havent cleaned my tubes yet, but I probably will this weekend just to be sure everything is going well.  I now have a good bed of ash on the ceramic in the main chamber, and Ill leave that there until it really builds up in the corners.


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## maple1

Sounds like I have one more long tube than you do - I didn't pick up on that in the literature. And I'm guessing I don't have short turbs for my top tubes simply because it would be better to have nothing blocking the draft through the sort tubes on a cold start when the bypass is open, with no fan to help get things going up the chimney. I think I've been cleaning my tubes quite a bit more than I have to - likely every 3 or 4 burns. But it's so easy to do I've just been doing it. Think I'll ease off on that, don't want to wear my brush out.


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## dzook

Here are some thoughts about some differences you will see when comparing a natural draft Varmebaronen boilers to their draft fan models.

The Vedolux natural draft boilers , like maple1's unit and the induced draft fan models like Clarkbug's have different target points for flue gas temp. Usually all the turbulators are used in the induced draft fan boilers at all times unless as it was noted in a Clarkbugs post, some should be removed in the first fire of a season and during initial startup with very cold accumulator tanks.

A turbulated draft fan model usually runs at 350F range +- 25F. The natural draft will usually operate best approximately 100F higher than the draft fan boiler.

The natural draft turbulators are used or not used depending on what flue temps are observed near the exit point of the boiler. The natural draft boiler operates very well with an intense flame at around 400-475F. Because the intensity of the flame in the natural draft is related to the velocity achieved up the stack, a higher temperature is required and is specified than what is typically seen in the draft fan unit. If the flue temps are above the specified range it then is good to begin to add turbulators, maybe if you regularly see above 475F.

Every chimney seems to draft differently so with a Vedolux natural draft boiler you can have the same level of efficiency with no turbulators as maybe a boiler using all or just some of them, providing the stack temps are the same. If too many turbulators are used in a natural draft unit to lower the flue temperature range to what you would think would  give a better efficiency, it may give diminishing results because the velocity slows to a point the boiler is out of its sweet spot in temperature range.

From experience in operating a natural draft Vedolux boiler for a few years, I have found that by cutting the long turbulators in half it gave the most flue gas dampening options, if you need two long turbulators in two tubes to achieve a desired flue temp, then cutting them in half and placing in 4 tubes gives a more equal velocity distribution to the individual boiler tubes. If your chimney drafts perfectly in keeping flue temps in the specified range without turbulators, hurray, no need to remove a turbulator to do the cleaning, plus a quicker lighting can be accomplished.  Additionally the natural draft boiler  has a flue gas damper that can be adjusted to achieve proper flue temps.          Dean


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## Clarkbug

Thanks for the info Dean!  I didnt realize that they would make different target temps for the induced draft vs. natural draft.  But that makes perfect sense based on your explanation.


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## Gasifier

Congratulations Maple1! Nice job on doing the install. Good pics and details. Anything new in the last few days? How are you going to permanently insulate your tanks? Have you considered spray foaming them? *Enjoy that new boiler. *


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## Digger79

wow awesome build. Thats a butt load of hot water!! nice!


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## velvetfoot

Just re-read the thread.  Nice!  I'm envious of what-looks-like garage door access to the basement.


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## maple1

Thanks.

Yes, it's a garage door to the basement. Not a very big one, but big enough for what goes in & out of there. Makes the wood handling easier to handle.

I should re-read it too when I get a chance. Might be more to update on it. Can't believe it was that long ago. Or that I came through it all in one piece.


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## Coal Reaper

Haha!  I couldnt even tell you how many times i read this thread back when i was getting ready to do mine. I got mine going the following spring. Seems like forever dont it maple?


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## shelster0805

WOW!


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## SteveJ

Awesome job maple1. thanks for the details throughout! 
Thanks for the clarification dzook on the natural draft and induction models!

Great job and makes my decision a little clearer


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## SpaceBus

Finally got around to reading this whole thread! Our house is fairly small at 1200 sqft, so a boiler is totally overkill for us. Still, If I ever needed a boiler, this is the route I'd go. We are planning a large-ish Barn/workshop, but even then a boiler is probably way too much. 

This is a really neat setup and it seems like you could get by even without electricity, if I read this all correctly.


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## maple1

Yes, it can heat without electricity. But I have to watch it close when I do. That usually means small fires, and/or maybe  manually closing the draft damper a bit, and manually opening all my zone valves. It can overheat things with a decent fire.


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## SpaceBus

maple1 said:


> Yes, it can heat without electricity. But I have to watch it close when I do. That usually means small fires, and/or maybe  manually closing the draft damper a bit, and manually opening all my zone valves. It can overheat things with a decent fire.


Still better than being in a real pinch if there's no power or backup power.


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