# Building the MS460



## MasterMech (May 16, 2012)

The time has come!

Awhile back I aquired (freebie!) a MS460 that got in a fight with an F550 and lost.  The saw was barely a week old from what I understand. It's a total loss except for the cylinder, piston, crank, clutch and a few small items.

I bought another 460 from flea-bay with a toasted Piston/Cyl but with what looks to be a good chassis to build on. The plan is to carry over as many engine parts as possible, bearings, crank, piston/cyl to this saw and replace the AV buffers and clutch along with other good parts from the donor unit as well. I have new crank seals and gaskets for the build already.

I am undecided as to keep the finished product or flip it. If I decide to sell it, I wonder how much the broken fin on the donor cylinder will affect value of the finished saw vs. just doing an aftermarket cylinder? I've yet to disassemble the receiving saw so the actual condition of that cylinder is unknown. Power of the OEM Cyl vs. Aftermarket? I welcome everybody's experiences here.






The loser......




The cylinder is like new except for that damn chip.




Next step will be complete disassembly to salvage engine parts.





The willing recipient.


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## lukem (May 16, 2012)

If it were me, I'd probably keep it depending on how much profit were to be made.


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## ScotO (May 16, 2012)

That chip is meaningless.   As for keeping/selling, you run that saw and it'll end up staying with ya!  I've done many carry-over rebuilds (even re-using gaskets when possible) with great results.  The OEM piston/cylinder will be fine, why not do a match-port while you have it torn down?  Also a dual port muffler!  Might as well, both are very easy mods to that saw!  If I was closer I'd help ya with the porting, brother.


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## smokinj (May 16, 2012)

Easy choice run it, only then will you know if your going to keep it. I had alot of saw's and the 460 is the only one NFS!


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## ScotO (May 16, 2012)

MM I see a 'magnum' air cleaner cover on the one saw, is that the bad P/C?  See if you can salvage the P/C on it, maybe a re-ring will cure it.


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## HittinSteel (May 16, 2012)

Hopefully the OEM cylinder cleans up. Then just put a Meteor piston in and away you go!


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## MasterMech (May 16, 2012)

smokinj said:


> Easy choice run it, only then will you know if your going to keep it. I had alot of saw's and the 460 is the only one NFS!


 
I have run a 460 before, on a few occasions.  Dropped a 460 Rescue (Our dealership demo saw.... )  through a workbench made from 8x's and a heavy 2x top. He said he wanted it about 18" narrower than it was.  That made a lot of guys in the shop ! I certainly had everybody's attention!

I don't "need" a 460 per say, not with the 034 around.  Flipping the saw for a new piece of shop equipment is mighty appealing.  I think I would have a harder time parting with the 034!



Scotty Overkill said:


> MM I see a 'magnum' air cleaner cover on the one saw, is that the bad P/C? See if you can salvage the P/C on it, maybe a re-ring will cure it.


 
Both saws are Magnums. 



HittinSteel said:


> Hopefully the OEM cylinder cleans up. Then just put a Meteor piston in and away you go!


 
Got a brand-new OEM piston in the donor saw.



Scotty Overkill said:


> That chip is meaningless. As for keeping/selling, you run that saw and it'll end up staying with ya! I've done many carry-over rebuilds (even re-using gaskets when possible) with great results. The OEM piston/cylinder will be fine, why not do a match-port while you have it torn down? Also a dual port muffler! Might as well, both are very easy mods to that saw! If I was closer I'd help ya with the porting, brother.


 
Scotty if I keep this thing it very well may wind up being my first foray into porting.  Especially if I wind up having an extra cylinder around.


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## smokinj (May 16, 2012)

MasterMech said:


> I have run a 460 before, on a few occasions. Dropped a 460 Rescue (Our dealership demo saw.... ) through a workbench made from 8x's and a heavy 2x top. He said he wanted it about 18" narrower than it was. That made a lot of guys in the shop ! I certainly had everybody's attention!
> 
> I don't "need" a 460 per say, not with the 034 around. Flipping the saw for a new piece of shop equipment is mighty appealing. I think I would have a harder time parting with the 034!
> 
> ...


 

You must be doing lot smaller tree's than me then.


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## MasterMech (May 16, 2012)

smokinj said:


> You must be doing lot smaller tree's than me then.


Yeah, I don't get into 50"+ Oak every day.  Lot's of 18-24" trunks.


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## MasterMech (Jan 31, 2013)

Ok gang, I have been wrenching on the MS460 again after a _long_ hiatus.  Got the "good" crankcase stripped down and ready to split.






Pulling the flywheel, that's Stihl's flywheel puller. You could mess around making one from pressure washer/hydraulic fittings (22mm) but for less than $10 (List price too!) why bother?






This is the crankcase splitter tool.  You could fabricate one of these pretty easy if your handy with a welder.  I bought this one because it comes with the sleeves for pulling the crank/bearings back into the case as well.  I also don't have enough welder to put something that heavy together @ home.


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## MasterMech (Jan 31, 2013)

This is the flywheel side press tool. This one is well worth buying if you do this kind of work. The plates are numbered/drilled for multiple saws and make pressing the crank out of the case half a snap. Also works for pulling the crank/bearing assembly back into the case.


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## MasterMech (Jan 31, 2013)

I took a pic of the chain brake mech before disassembling it. Even if you have done these saws before, it's a good idea. 




There is the clutch side press setup and the case is starting to come apart. 



There is a pesky dowel pin in that hole at the front of the case, if it doesn't start to separate once the rest of the case is 1/8" apart, I drive it back into the clutch side case with a drift punch.



Success!




Shop Tip! I lube the pressure screw on any puller/press I use. Saves a lot of wear & tear on the tool.





Pressing the crank out of the ignition/flywheel-side case.

Everything is in the parts washer now, ready for me to clean.  Of course there will be more pictures when it goes back together!


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## Boog (Jan 31, 2013)

Coming along there nice, wish I was there to help play with it too.  You're just going to have to be the judge as to whether you use all OEM or not once you get everything cleaned up.  But I do think the broken fin will make a difference if you sell it.  If I was the buyer I would wonder what else might have been damaged during the incident that broke the fin.  A for keeping it, the saws that mean the most to me in my hoard are the ones that I did the major rebuilds on.  They are also the ones I figure will last the longest since they have just been rebuilt.


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## MasterMech (Jan 31, 2013)

Boog Powell said:


> You're just going to have to be the judge as to whether you use all OEM or not once you get everything cleaned up.


 
I have all OEM goodies ready for it. I think I'm going to try to clean-up the "fried" cylinder regardless of whether I use it or not. I might have a solution to make the other, "new" cylinder look better. 



A comparison shot of the old "fried" cylinder on the left vs. the donor jug on the right.


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## MasterMech (Jan 31, 2013)

The "press arbor" that is used to install/remove the flywheel side crankshaft bearing.  You could use a socket or similar to press the bearing out too.  Surprisingly, many of these little tools are very inexpensive.  It's the crankshaft pullers, the vac/pressure test kit , and my crankshaft seal puller that were the real $$.




Setup on the press and.... Success!







This is what I wound up with after a good dunk in the parts washer and blowing things out.  I'll still wash 'em down with brake cleaner before I paint the case halves.  I've never painted a saw before!


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## DexterDay (Jan 31, 2013)

Nice.... 

If you absolutely have to get rid of it........  I have some "stuff" to trade  

If your lookin for smaller Pro Saws 

Keep at it MM, that's gonna be a fine machine when your done. As Scotty Overkill said, if you run it, your gonna keep it.


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## lukem (Jan 31, 2013)

Boog Powell said:


> Coming along there nice, wish I was there to help play with it too.  You're just going to have to be the judge as to whether you use all OEM or not once you get everything cleaned up.  But I do think the broken fin will make a difference if you sell it.  If I was the buyer I would wonder what else might have been damaged during the incident that broke the fin.  A for keeping it, the saws that mean the most to me in my hoard are the ones that I did the major rebuilds on.  They are also the ones I figure will last the longest since they have just been rebuilt.




I think if you were straight up with the buyer...told them what happened..and that it was repaired by a qualified mechanic with OEM parts it shouldn't be an issue.


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## MasterMech (Jan 31, 2013)

DexterDay said:


> Nice....
> 
> If you absolutely have to get rid of it........  I have some "stuff" to trade
> 
> ...


 
I've already made up my mind this will be a "for sale" saw. Question is, how long will I keep/run it before I let it go? 

I've got it in my head that I want newer, lighter, more efficient gear. That means saws with 3-digit model #'s ending in "1". 

So sometime in the future, the 031, 034, and this MS460 are going to get new homes. Really hate to sell my 034 but 60cc class saws have come a long way in 25+ years.


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## amateur cutter (Jan 31, 2013)

Keep the 460, it'll make the 034 look like a limb saw. A C


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## Boog (Jan 31, 2013)

MasterMech said:


> ...............................................before I paint the case halves. I've never painted a saw before!


 
Wow, one thing that I've done to a saw that you haven't! You just made my day! 

I bought a can of the OEM Stihl paint (pricey) to see what it was like, but I plan to take a sample of it over to Lowe's/Home Depot and have them read it with their paint machine to get a cheaper brew for the future!


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## MasterMech (Jan 31, 2013)

Boog Powell said:


> I bought a can of the OEM Stihl paint (pricey) to see what it was like, but I plan to take a sample of it over to Loew's/Home Depot and have them read it with their paint machine to get a cheaper brew for the future!


 
Ford tractor gray.  Tractor supply.  ( I too have the Stihl OEM gray)


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## Boog (Jan 31, 2013)

MasterMech said:


> .................................. Question is, how long will I keep/run it before I let it go? ...................................


 
That's the final decision that I ended up coming to on mine...........run it this summer cleaning up from the timber sale and lowering some stumps, then send mine to a new home too before it sees any more wear/tear.


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## loadstarken (Feb 1, 2013)

You can always show the buyer this thread if they have any issues with the chipped fin.

Thanks for posting this rebuild thread!


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## Jags (Feb 1, 2013)

Looking good MM.  I have never done a saw rebuild.  I run Stihl saws and keep them away from vehicles, so I don't have to.


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## MasterMech (Feb 1, 2013)

Jags said:


> Looking good MM. I have never done a saw rebuild. I run Stihl saws and keep them away from vehicles, so I don't have to.


 
Unfortunately I couldn't be there to save the donor saw.  I'd actually love to find another parts saw or two and see how cheap I could pull one of these animals together.  Unfortunately, everything 460 = $$ and I already have "too much" into this one.   Oh well.  Still going to enjoy the heck outta this thing.


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## loadstarken (Feb 2, 2013)

Find one on craigslist and I'm sure we could find a board member in the area pick it up and send it to you.


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## MasterMech (Feb 2, 2013)

I've got the crankcase pretty much ready to paint now.  I scuffed the existing paint and ran a small roloc sanding disc over the really rough stuff.  Masked off the areas that needed it too.  Paint will happen tomorrow or Mon and then it's time to assemble!





Cut a blank for the bearing bore from an old index card.




Heat shrink tube works really well to mask the pivot posts for the chainbrake mech!  So do cut pieces of drinking straw!




Just happened to have a cap that fit the impulse line nipple nicely.




Another index card blank for the flywheel side.




Not much paint left on the bottom/front of the case!

Since I've joined the case halves temporarily for painting, I drove the locating dowels back into their bores to make separating the halves a matter of just removing the screws.  This is important because with the crankshaft removed, I would have no good way to separate the halves again!


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## nate379 (Feb 2, 2013)

460 works just fine in that "small" wood too.  I run an 18" bar on mine and it's perfect.




MasterMech said:


> Yeah, I don't get into 50"+ Oak every day. Lot's of 18-24" trunks.


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## DexterDay (Feb 3, 2013)

Gonna sell a 460 to get a "1" series saw? 

Why? When you have so many others that are Not? 

That 460 will run circles around your 034. Makes the 230C seem like a child, the 034 is a juvenile, while the 460 is a Grown man the dont take Chit from anyone  

What ya askin???


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## Freakingstang (Feb 3, 2013)

Negative on the cheap paints... Stihl grey and orange, once cleaned  and baked (1/2 hr @ 200) will last and be durable

And a three digit "1" series ... You either have more money than brains or you have no real use for a saw.  Keep the 046, and sell that 30 year old 034 and get a 361/2.

We run 046's with 20" bars in these parts


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## Angelo C (Feb 3, 2013)

MasterMech said:


> View attachment 91643
> View attachment 91645
> View attachment 91642
> 
> ...


Hey MasterMech, 
If ya don't mind what did ya pay for the Stihl crankcase tools. I priced a set from my dealer and almost fell over. Almost $500.
I held off for now. Been looking for a set for a long time, unfortunately I don't weld well (yet) or I'd make the splitter.
I'd gladly pay $250 of the set. .


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## MasterMech (Feb 3, 2013)

DexterDay said:


> Gonna sell a 460 to get a "1" series saw?
> 
> Why? When you have so many others that are Not?
> 
> ...


 
I _want _newer, lighter, more efficient equipment.  I _want_ more first-hand experience with the new tech that's coming out.  I don't work for a dealership anymore so there's only one way to do that. 

I _need_ a new saw like I need a hole in my head but _want_ is another story.  This is also a bit of a research mission.  I thirst for new knowledge daily and playing with last-generation equipment isn't teaching me anything about the new stuff.

I'm attached to my 034, selling it will be hard.  You ever have a saw that ran just a bit better than it should? (never had the jug off it so I dunno if it's really an 034 or it has a 034S/036 top-end on it.)

I'm keeping the MS230 because it's technically my mother's. (She has little use for it now.)  I'm selling the 031 because it's 30+ years old, and there is so much better out there now for 50cc saws.  It runs awesome and somebody will be glad to have an old magnesium saw instead of these new-fangled plastic jobs.   I fully know what to expect from this MS460 when it's complete.  It's going to run an 8 pin rim and 20" Bar for awhile once it's complete until I sell it. (date to be determined,  )

Besides, If you had the opportunity to turn your existing fleet in for newer, lighter, faster, and more efficient equipment, with little to no out of pocket costs, wouldn't you be crazy not to?  This ain't happening overnight but I'm going to trade 3 saws for 2 new ones. I get great pricing on new quipment too.  I might have to buy, build and flip one more saw to do it for zero out-of-pocket, but hey, if that's what it takes.... 

Asking price on the 460 will be determined once I have a final tally of what I have into it.




Angelo C said:


> Hey MasterMech, If ya don't mind what did ya pay for the Stihl crankcase tools. I priced a set from my dealer and almost fell over. Almost $500.


 
PM coming.


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## Halligan (Feb 3, 2013)

I'm really liking this thread. Good job with the pictures and explanations. I felt like I was on another saw friendly website while reading .


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## Freakingstang (Feb 3, 2013)

Well, then sell the 046 and get the lightweight (actually heavier with less power) 441.


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## MasterMech (Feb 4, 2013)

Freakingstang said:


> Well, then sell the 046 and get the lightweight (actually heavier with less power) 441.


Actually, and you will call me crazy, that's the plan. MS261 and a MS441C-M.

441 heavier? nah. Both are 14.6 lbs (that's the 'official' spec anyways) and make similar power. .4 bhp difference with the MS460 having the edge at 6.0 bhp vs the 441C-M @ 5.6. That might make a difference with a 32"+ bar hanging off it but if I need a bar that size on a semi-regular basis, I'm going to be adding to the fleet again. 

Don't worry, if I don't like either saw I'll let you know.   Really wish Stihl would roll out Mtronic in more than one model.  The Brits get the MS241 Mtronic, why can't we have it on the 261?


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## nate379 (Feb 4, 2013)

I wouldn't mind having another hp or two on a 460 even with "just" an 18" bar. I have a 32" bar for mine and it struggles to cut wood with it.  I like to be able to stick saw on wood and BZZZZ... through.  No bogging or having to "work" the saw.
I don't expect it to be a hot saw, but close.  

And no, it's not just my saw, I have cut with 2 other 460s and they all were the same power on the "butt dyno"


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## smokinj (Feb 4, 2013)

nate379 said:


> I wouldn't mind having another hp or two on a 460 even with "just" an 18" bar. I have a 32" bar for mine and it struggles to cut wood with it. I like to be able to stick saw on wood and BZZZZ... through. No bogging or having to "work" the saw.
> I don't expect it to be a hot saw, but close.
> 
> And no, it's not just my saw, I have cut with 2 other 460s and they all were the same power on the "butt dyno"


 
Theres no saw that does not struggle in big wood. Even 120+cc's It comes down to chains and your hands.


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## MasterMech (Feb 4, 2013)

Ok, so I just had to do _something_ about that broken fin.  I think the mill cleaned it up nicely. 








Guess what was hanging out while I was working on that cylinder fin?  No pictures but I media-blasted the recoil cover and clutch cover lightly to prep the OEM powder coat to take paint.  I didn't want to do this to the crankcase and take a chance on getting grit where it shouldn't be.




Picture of the paint getting ready for "heat treatment".  Just to prove it happened.  2 hrs @ 200.


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## Jags (Feb 4, 2013)

Dude - I want that mill. {{drool}}

Oh - and nice job on the other stuff.


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## MasterMech (Feb 4, 2013)

Jags said:


> Dude - I want that mill. {{drool}}
> 
> Oh - and nice job on the other stuff.


 
Yah, me too. 

It's just an ancient Bridgeport we have at work. Nothing fancy, all manual feeds, needs a LOT of work to be considered precise.


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## Jags (Feb 4, 2013)

MasterMech said:


> Yah, me too.
> 
> It's just an ancient Bridgeport we have at work. Nothing fancy, all manual feeds, needs a LOT of work to be considered precise.


For my use, I would prefer manual, but I don't want to side track this thread.


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## Freeheat (Feb 4, 2013)

MasterMech
  My wife would have my a** for cooking paint in the oven
Nice Bridgeport , I worked on a small block for 1-2 weeks building a stroker motor with a bridgeport. Is that at the house or do you have a shop ??

JIM


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## MasterMech (Feb 4, 2013)

Freeheat said:


> My wife would have my a** for cooking paint in the oven


Mine too. 



Freeheat said:


> Nice Bridgeport , I worked on a small block for 1-2 weeks building a stroker motor with a bridgeport. Is that at the house or do you have a shop ??


That's at my "night job" (I work overnights).  Bridgeport, a Kearny Trekker (sp?) vertical mill that makes the Bridgeport look like a toy and an old Pratt & Whitney model C lathe.  A few other nice toys too, including a 10' shear , and an ancient Do-All vertical bandsaw with hydraulic table feed.


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## MasterMech (Feb 6, 2013)

So back at it now and here are a few shots of the bottom-end I'm going to use.







Man there is a ton of carbon on that piston for the minimal amount of time this saw ran.  The donor saw was barely 2 weeks old before it was destroyed.


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## MasterMech (Feb 6, 2013)

This sleeve makes pressing the seal into the bearing race a snap. You could tap the seal into the race gently if you work carefully but I'd have an extra seal on hand if I was going that route. 







Setup and pressing the seal in place.






Now to press the bearing into the crankcase.


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## MasterMech (Feb 7, 2013)

Tonight I'm reassembling the crankcase!  This all goes so much faster/easier with the proper tools.

EDIT: (These are famous last words. This guy is going to get it for sure. )





Using the flywheel side crankshaft press (same tool I used to press the crank out of the case) to pull the crankshaft back into the bearing/case.   There is a threaded adapter sleeve (similar to a coupler nut) that adapts the tool from a press to a puller.





Now to install the clutch side bearing.  To do so, I temporarily re-installed the oil pump since it determines the depth/position of the bearing in the case. 




Getting the bearing started straight in the bore was proving difficult.  Probably has something to do with my HF Press but by laying the bearing on a press plate and using a large socket to press the case onto the bearing, I got it started in it's bore.  Then I could flip it over and press it until it seats against the oil pump.





I removed the oil pump to show the position of the bearing in the case.




Don't forget to install the oil pickup tube before you assemble the case halves.





Again using a threaded sleeve to adapt the crankshaft press (clutch side this time) and use it as a puller.
Hmmmm, I wonder why it doesn't want to close up that last 1/8"?


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## MasterMech (Feb 7, 2013)

Disaster!




Uh Oh.  Where did that come from?

I'll show you tomorrow after the camera recharges.  

When I remounted the oil pump after that last photoshoot, I must've grabbed the wrong screw (too long).  It punched a good hole in the wall of the crankcase instead of bottoming out. 

If you need me, I'll be combing ebay for another case.


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## HDRock (Feb 7, 2013)

MasterMech said:


> Disaster!
> 
> View attachment 92576
> 
> ...


 
Aw man !  bummer 
Good info in the thread  should be faster, tearing it down n puttin it back together, the second time around, it would be for me anyway


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## MasterMech (Feb 7, 2013)

HDRock said:


> Aw man ! bummer
> Good info in the thread  should be faster, tearing it down n puttin it back together, the second time around, it would be for me anyway


 
It's pretty darn quick acutually, these tools make it pretty easy compared to any other method.


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## Boog (Feb 7, 2013)

I hate when those things happen.  I've split two gas tanks on the 031AV reassembling them after having them all electronic converted and cleaned up.  After screwing the tank/starter up to the left side of the saw, there is one bolt at the bottom of the right side to insert.  Apparently over tightening this bolt puts enough stress on that side of the tank to ever so slightly separate it.   The first one I thought was a fluke............... the second one really pissed me off because I was aware of it......................ARGGGGGGGGGGGG!!

Good luck with the next 460 case!


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## MasterMech (Feb 7, 2013)

My options are as follows:

1.) To hell with it, part it out, wash my hands of it and forget it ever happened. I have a fair amount of $$ into the saw as is and am reluctant to spend more. However, I will not come close to recovering all of my investment with this option.

2.) Buy another rough looking but complete and undamaged crankcase and repaint it like I did this one. Roughly $125 + shipping. Painting it will never be nearly as durable as the OEM powder coat but just might be enough of a facelift to make it presentable. Still going to make for an expensive saw.

3.) Go all in, new crankcase for $200 + shipping, sell off as many parts as I can to lessen the sting.  Saw will look _and_ run fabulous and I'll be quite happy with it other than the $$ invested. 

4.) Or there is option #4, tear it down again, JB Weld the puncture, (the damage is not in a sensitive area or structural) and rebuild. This will relegate the saw to my personal collection and no farther.

No matter what I do, there is no longer any profit to be made with this saw, so that renders the keep it or sell it argument moot.

Gonna think on this one for now, but I'll make a decision here in the next 12-24 hrs. Y'all will find out what I decided in short order.


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## HittinSteel (Feb 7, 2013)

You forgot option 5........ put a farm boss bar on it and sell it on ebay for more than retail 

j/k and trying to lighten the mood...... sorry this happened. Sucks when things go wrong during a rebuild.

Personally, I'd JB her up and keep it for yourself.


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## nate379 (Feb 7, 2013)

Can't weld it?  I wouldn't even think of spending $200 on a case unless it was the ONLY way to fix it.


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## MasterMech (Feb 7, 2013)

nate379 said:


> Can't weld it? I wouldn't even think of spending $200 on a case unless it was the ONLY way to fix it.


 
Could weld it, although I've never done Magnesium before, should be similar to Aluminum.  Realistically, the JB will likely be just as good and far less risky.


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## Boog (Feb 7, 2013)

I vote to JB weld it up for yourself Brian.  You now have your top end covered and can move on to the other saws you want without any more investment.  It will still end up a damm good running saw!


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## smokinj (Feb 7, 2013)

MasterMech said:


> My options are as follows:
> 
> 1.) To hell with it, part it out, wash my hands of it and forget it ever happened. I have a fair amount of $$ into the saw as is and am reluctant to spend more. However, I will not come close to recovering all of my investment with this option.
> 
> ...


 


Whats your grand total so far?


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## Freeheat (Feb 7, 2013)

MasterMech said:


> Could weld it, although I've never done Magnesium before, should be similar to Aluminum. Realistically, the JB will likely be just as good and far less risky.


Can you weld magnesium????


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## lukem (Feb 7, 2013)

The money you spent is spent.  Water under the bridge...

The decision you have to make is would you rather spend X and have a 460, or make Y parting out the saw?  

I would personally JB it up since it is a puncture and not a stress crack (easier to repair an much better chance on not expanding in the future).  My old Suzuki dirtbike had dual plugs...the previous owner stripped one and I ended up JB welding it.  If it can repair a cylinder head without issue for 5 years I think it will be fine for a crankcase.


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## Jags (Feb 7, 2013)

This would be an easy TIG weld job for somebody in the know.  Get it fixed for a few bucks and continue down your original path.  Once you JB weld it - you own it.


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## DexterDay (Feb 7, 2013)

If you part it... (If) 

Wanna sell that OEM DP Muff? 

(My vote is for a Weld or the JB may work/ either way, keep going)


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## MasterMech (Feb 7, 2013)

smokinj said:


> Whats your grand total so far?


Hard to say Jay.  Two parts saws and a freebie donor for the engine stuff.  Some new OEM stuff too.  Have almost enough two build two saws, need another back handle and carburetor and I could.  Hmmmmm. 

Have a lot of extra stuff that I need to get cataloged, photographed, and on eBay.


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## MasterMech (Feb 7, 2013)

Freeheat said:


> Can you weld magnesium????


Can -> I <- weld magnesium? I've never tried it. Never had the opportunity till now. It is certainly possible if you have a TIG welder (I have access to several.) and the right filler material. I'll look at welding it but I think it could get dicey with the powder coat. Might still be better off JBing this one and keeping it.  I've always wanted to build an "aftermarket Annie" to test aftermarket P&C kits and this might be the perfect case to try that with.  Or port one of my OEM cylinders and just make it a clapped out Rat Rod of a saw.


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## Angelo C (Feb 8, 2013)

MM, 
I will trade you a perfectly good 046 case for those evil Stihl case splitter tools. Obviously they made the process too fast and caused a distraction. Baaaad tool. 

What side is damaged, clutch or PTO ?  I have a spare clutch side as i need a PTO as well( already donated to another breakage) for a matched set. 

Sorry about your situation.
A


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## smokinj (Feb 8, 2013)

MasterMech said:


> Hard to say Jay. Two parts saws and a freebie donor for the engine stuff. Some new OEM stuff too. Have almost enough two build two saws, need another back handle and carburetor and I could. Hmmmmm.
> 
> Have a lot of extra stuff that I need to get cataloged, photographed, and on eBay.


 
If you can come in under 500.00 total, I would get a new case.


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## Jags (Feb 8, 2013)

Grind off the powder coating at the repair area and get-R-done. If you know peeps with TIGS, you probably already know somebody that can weld it up for you.  I ain't against JB Weld, but I ain't for it either.  Sticking two things together is one thing, using it as a patch is another.

And down the road, if your heart ever changes, you will have no "sellers" remorse over a hokey patch.  Your name will be attached to THAT saw.


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## kd460 (Feb 8, 2013)

Yep, tig it and be done with it. I would have no problem buying a saw with that type of a repair, with JB, I would have a problem buying that saw...


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## MasterMech (Feb 8, 2013)

Jags said:


> And down the road, if your heart ever changes, you will have no "sellers" remorse over a hokey patch. Your name will be attached to THAT saw.


 
A patched saw is my saw.  Maybe a giveaway (or dirt cheap) but with full disclosure on what was done. 

Problem with the TIG weld approach is the powercoat on the _backside_ of the weld area.  I'm worried it will contaminate the weld and it's not accessible to grind off.



smokinj said:


> If you can come in under 500.00 total, I would get a new case.


 
Not with this saw I can't.  But with some "program modifications", using what I already have, I could easily do a MS460 build for $500.


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## Jags (Feb 8, 2013)

MasterMech said:


> Problem with the TIG weld approach is the powercoat on the _backside_ of the weld area. I'm worried it will contaminate the weld and it's not accessible to grind off.


 
Sand blast - come on man...don't make me think of everything.


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## MasterMech (Feb 8, 2013)

Angelo C said:


> MM,
> I will trade you a perfectly good 046 case for those evil Stihl case splitter tools. Obviously they made the process too fast and caused a distraction. Baaaad tool.
> 
> What side is damaged, clutch or PTO ? I have a spare clutch side as i need a PTO as well( already donated to another breakage) for a matched set.
> ...


 
Those tools aren't evil and are leaving this shop over my dead body.   The problem was the bonehead assembling the saw used the wrong screw to re-mount the oil pump.   And yes, I was working late in the evening, having to leave for work in a few minutes, and not being as careful as I should have been.


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## Jags (Feb 8, 2013)

I think I am getting it now.  You don't WANT the saw to leave.


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## MasterMech (Feb 8, 2013)

Jags said:


> Sand blast - come on man...don't make me think of everything.


Do you know how freakin' tough that PC is? I tried grit blasting the clutch cover. 80 grit @ 100 psi and it took _forever!_ I thought of it too, and I'm probably going to do it that way. On a positive note, blasting PC makes for a damn nice primer for the paint to stick to.


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## Jags (Feb 8, 2013)

MasterMech said:


> Do you know how freakin' tough that PC is?


 
You won't have to blast much. Only the edges where it might contaminate the weld. 1/4" around the hole should be way more than enough.

Oh - and when welding, make sure you are at a place that you can jettison the case outside.  You are welding magnesium.


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## MasterMech (Feb 8, 2013)

Jags said:


> You are welding magnesium.


 
We machine titanium too.  Those chips are fun.


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## MasterMech (Feb 8, 2013)

Jags said:


> I think I am getting it now. You don't WANT the saw to leave.


 
Yes, no, maybe so, lol.  I think I'm going to wind up with _at least _1 460 from this adventure.


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## MasterMech (Feb 8, 2013)

Ok, not exactly carnage pics, but here are a few shots of the damage.









The culprit.





You can see there is only about 1/16" of material making up the crankcase wall.

Plan is in place to continue building the saw. Stay tuned!


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## Jags (Feb 11, 2013)

"Stay tuned"....haha


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## MasterMech (Feb 11, 2013)

I was playing with my 2nd jug (off the donor saw) tonight and unfortunately, it's a goner.  I left the photo super hi-res so you can see the pitting left-over after the acid clean-up.  Bummer.  
	

		
			
		

		
	





If you guys haven't figured it out by now, I'm no longer building one MS460 Magnum.  Gonna be two saws coming out of this fiasco.  One will be super nice/clean, and all OEM, the second will most likely be built using an aftermarket top-end.

Right now all I've got is a pretty good size pile-o-parts and some packages that start arriving tomorrow.  Might have one running by this weekend but still would like to locate some prettier plastics for the nicer saw.


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## Freakingstang (Feb 16, 2013)

I wouldn't weld the magnesium... too many guys have tried and ruined their cases.  JB would be your best bet...

I have a bunch of 046 parts if you need anything specific...I know I have a couple good topends. I do not like aftermarket topends on the bigger pro saws, they just don't last.


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## MasterMech (Feb 16, 2013)

Freakingstang said:


> I wouldn't weld the magnesium... too many guys have tried and ruined their cases. JB would be your best bet...
> 
> I have a bunch of 046 parts if you need anything specific...I know I have a couple good topends. I do not like aftermarket topends on the bigger pro saws, they just don't last.


I might be interested in one of those top-ends. Aftermarket top-ends are hit and miss, you get what you pay for....

Parts have finished arriving, I am itching to assemble it.  Just need about 4 more hours in a day, that's all.


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## MasterMech (Feb 23, 2013)

Ok gang!

Back at it with this monster again!

The packages have been flowing, delivery drivers tipped, and serious work has begun again.






Hey, that crankcase sure is shiny, betcha it's new!  I found one for a decent deal, came with new bearings, bar studs and heat shield foil as well.  Unfortunately, the clutch side seal was not installed in the bearing yet so since I have already installed the one I had in the other bearing, I ordered a new one.





Hmm, wait a second, with no crankshaft installed, I'm going to have to drive the dowel pins out to get this thing apart.





I just think it's waaay easier to install the oil pickup and line ahead of time while the halves are split.






Had to tap the holes for the crankcase screws.  They were not threaded 100% through and they need to be so my flywheel side puller/press will bolt up.
No problem getting that half together, last pic shows the gasket in place and a couple screws were installed loose just to hold it in place while I set the clutch side case on.


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## MasterMech (Feb 23, 2013)

Got the clutch side case on there and now we have a 100% bottom end! Trimmed up the gasket with a razor blade.








Got the heat foil laid down and the chain brake band in. Chain tensioner is in, always make sure that o-ring is in the back of the spur gear. When you put this thing together, the spur gear will try to jump back off the post since once assembled, it forms an air cylinder.





The cylinder is now on, I gave the piston a light coat of oil and used Stihl's piston ring band to hold the rings in place while I squished the cylinder on. Yup, those are my side-cuts subbing for a wooden assembly block. Worked pretty well!


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## MasterMech (Feb 23, 2013)

One shot with almost everything other than the clutch assembled, leaving that off until after I pressure test the engine.




Oh man! More new stuff?  $90 for a brandy new back handle/fuel tank assembly.  Included a new, green, ethanol proof fuel line as a bonus.  This is going to make a huge difference in how the saw looks overall later.







As you can see, the cylinder is bolted down now, the AV buffers installed, and the handle screwed in.  This thing is starting to look like a saw now!

First two pics up there show how I pull the intake boot through the handle housing without poking at it with a screwdriver or some other method equally likely to damage it.






Up Next, pressure/vac testing the engine to ensure the seals, intake boot, impulse line, and decomp valve are all air tight.


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## MasterMech (Feb 23, 2013)

There are many shade tree ways to rig this up, basically you just want to seal off the intake, attach a pressure/vac pump, and block the exhaust. Make sure there is a spark plug in the cylinder and the decomp valve is closed. I use the Stihl tools because I have them. The intake blocks alone are real nice as they usually plug the impulse line and slide right on the factory studs.






Heh, Stihl's exhaust blocking tool is real sophisticated.  Just sandwich the rubber strip between the exhaust port and muffler. (No Gasket) It's tapered so it fits multiple saws.

NOTE: I don't kill the screws holding the muffler/strip in place either. Just snug, even pressure, usually seals up better than putting 200lb ft of effort on them. 

I pulled up the decomp just to double-check that it is in fact closed.





Success!! The engine passed it's tests under pressure and vacuum with flying colors. .5 bar in either direction for 20+ seconds. Less than .05 bar pressure difference over that time.

That's it for tonight I think. Might get to hear it run this weekend. Can't wait! 

Questons? Fire away!


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## Boog (Feb 24, 2013)

MasterMech said:


> ................................Oh man! More new stuff? $90 for a brandy new back handle/fuel tank assembly. Included a new, green, ethanol proof fuel line as a bonus. This is going to make a huge difference in how the saw looks overall later.


 
You must have found the same ebay vendor I did for mine, $88.95, with others selling for as high as $169!  Coming along real nice, like the string idea on the carb boot, I used the pokey needle nose pliers routine, I'll remeber that one!


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## MasterMech (Feb 24, 2013)

The carburetor is all cleaned up and ready to go.  I'm going to run/try it as is and rebuild it later if necessary.






Pressure testing the carb to see if there's a problem right off the bat.  And test fitting the carb.  You can see in this shot I have the wiring harness back in the saw too.




Cleaned up the flywheel/fan and throwing that in the soup too.  I guess I didn't take any pics of the ignition system going back together. Oh well, pretty straight-forward that one is.






Got the clutch side of things wrapped up too.  Oil Pump, Oil pump drive and the clutch assembly are all back in.  Picked up some new covers to match the shiny-ness of the rest of it.  That was another eBay score for $12.

Oh yeah, going 8 pin with the rim for now as I plan to start off with a 20" bar on it.


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## MasterMech (Feb 24, 2013)

Boog Powell said:


> You must have found the same ebay vendor I did for mine, $88.95


 
There are a couple guys on eBay selling them for $90 or less right now.  That's a screamin' deal for a new back-handle assembly for sure.

I was on the fence about it and missed out on the guy you bought from.  Oh well, I figured, I can use the one I have, just not as minty as a new one would be obviously.  Then he relisted a few days later and I took that as a sign.


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## NH_Wood (Feb 24, 2013)

Coming along nicely MM - looks like you are having fun (mostly!). Cheers!


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## MasterMech (Feb 24, 2013)

Ok, so here's what I get for getting in a hurry (geez, does this guy ever learn?  ) and working in a freezing cold shop. The kill switch is still 100% functional so I'll order a new one and carry-on here.





Man that thing looks sweet on there too. Gonna get to hear it roar soon if I can get my act together.....




Got the back end buttoned up now. That's a new air filter plate on there. (I have 1 other one that's chipped but very serviceable) Got lucky and picked up a handful of new stuff from 1 seller for cheap. I can't believe the pricing some of this stuff goes for, new parts in the OEM bags with labels.






For now, I threw on my "ok" plastics and handle. That cylinder looks pretty good, hardly would know it was chipped before right?  Are you wondering about the oil cap yet? Well it turns out the crankcase I bought is for an 046 (wasn't clearly stated as such.... ) and while there is nothing wrong with using it, having a threaded oil cap and a flippy fuel cap will most likely bug the chit outta me. Yup, I have problems, I know.  I have another starter coming for this saw but I couldn't resist stringing this one up and mounting it quick.

And the moment we've all been waiting for..... she's a runner! Saw fired up on the 5th yank and ran pretty good. A slight tweak to the L screw and she idled just fine. Not going to run it much until I get the oil cap for it. But it's alive and kicking! I'll get it buttoned up this week and perhaps get a video or two up when it's all together.

And yeah, that dual port sounds awesome!


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## MasterMech (Feb 24, 2013)

NH_Wood said:


> Coming along nicely MM - looks like you are having fun (mostly!). Cheers!


I should've taken a picture of this thing in pieces.  I do have fun building them from nearly nothing, just parts.  There's enough different with this one that I'm not sure what serial # to transfer to it.  Don't have the right size stamps anyways.

Can't wait to get it in the wood.  It's been awhile since I've played with a 70cc class machine.


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## ScotO (Feb 24, 2013)

I love building them from scrap, too.  Nothing teaches you better on how a machine operates than to tear it down and put 'er back together again......

Just don't end up with a whole box of PLO's (parts left over)......


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## Boog (Feb 24, 2013)

MasterMech said:


> ........................I can't believe the pricing some of this stuff goes for, new parts in the OEM bags with labels!............................


 
Gee, now you're sounding just like me a few weeks ago in that "Papa Stihl" thread!  

Glad to see your scoring some good internet deals to mix in with your "friendly local dealer" purchases!


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## MasterMech (Feb 25, 2013)

Boog Powell said:


> Gee, now you're sounding just like me a few weeks ago in that "Papa Stihl" thread!
> 
> Glad to see your scoring some good internet deals to mix in with your "friendly local dealer" purchases!


 
The parts are being sold below dealer cost.  The best I can figure out is that these guys bought out dealer inventory from places that went under.  Or in the case of "new take-off" parts, maybe I'm better off not asking too many questions.....  I sure hope someone isn't dumb enough to start parting out stolen saws on ebay.

With the exception of the covers for the chain brake mech, the rest of the parts I've got in it are N.O.S that were in their original packaging.   And those covers I'm pretty sure came from a saw that looked like it was dropped or run over based on the other items the seller had for sale.  A "slightly bent" but "new" wrap handle and a bunch of busted up plastics "that could be fixed".


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## mikefrommaine (Feb 25, 2013)

Maybe the old production molds have ended up in the wrong hands. Check this out

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fuel-tank-r...139?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item416e6da2f3

These ms361 tanks and covers have been selling for 40-60 delivered. Though the seller has gone to a buy it now auction to keep the price up. Not sure I would trust the integrity of the handle long term. But I've been tempted to order the rear filter box only as mine is cracked. But not sure of how well it would fit and or last.


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## MasterMech (Feb 25, 2013)

mikefrommaine said:


> Maybe the old production molds have ended up in the wrong hands. Check this out
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fuel-tank-r...139?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item416e6da2f3
> 
> These ms361 tanks and covers have been selling for 40-60 delivered. Though the seller has gone to a buy it now auction to keep the price up. Not sure I would trust the integrity of the handle long term. But I've been tempted to order the rear filter box only as mine is cracked. But not sure of how well it would fit and or last.


Those are clearly labeled as non-OEM _aftermarket_ parts.  Nothing wrong with that.  The items I have are genuine Stihl OEM parts with the part #'s and company logo molded/cast into the part.  And yup, it all fits like a glove.


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## mikefrommaine (Feb 25, 2013)

What I've read in the case of the 361 parts is that it appears the old molds are being used. The part # in some pieces is still on the parts. Not sure about the logo. The way the Chinese are it wouldnt be hard to imagine them printing up some packaging and passing off aftermarket parts as oem. 

They're already selling counterfeit huskys and stihl saws...


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## MasterMech (Feb 25, 2013)

mikefrommaine said:


> What I've read in the case of the 361 parts is that it appears the old molds are being used.The part # in some pieces is still on the parts. Not sure about the logo.


 
If that is indeed the case then they're going to be contending with Papa Stihl very soon.  My guess is he won't be gentle with the spanking either.


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## mikefrommaine (Feb 25, 2013)

Unless buying from a dealer its buyer beware. Of course dealers could be using alibaba as asupplier and how would we know?

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/332222949/chain_saw_spare_parts.html


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## Boog (Feb 26, 2013)

mikefrommaine said:


> Maybe the old production molds have ended up in the wrong hands. Check this out
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fuel-tank-r...139?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item416e6da2f3
> 
> ....................................But I've been tempted to order the rear filter box only as mine is cracked. But not sure of how well it would fit and or last.


 
I bought a ZAMA 036/360 "Pro" compensating carb and aftermarket covers for my 036 from this same vendor _*super cheap*_ and I'm very happy with them. The covers are obviously aftermarket as they are curved on the top, but they are very nice (I carefully "curved" a new 036 ID tag to match). The shipment from Hong Kong was cheap and trouble free and I had the items in just over 2 weeks.


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## MasterMech (Mar 6, 2013)

Coming down the home stretch with this one now.  Here we go one more time! 






The ignition switch that I broke removing it from the other saw.  And the plug boot skirt, which was originally torn (as many of them are.) Both were inexpensive items to replace.








Really spiffing things up here now. The brake handle, engine top cover, and air filter cover are oh so shiny. 





The all important "Magnum" decal.


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## Jags (Mar 6, 2013)

I heard that just the sticker alone will make it run 15% faster.


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## MasterMech (Mar 6, 2013)

Even though it's not specified in the IPL for this particular muffler, I noticed some exhaust leakage between the muffler halves and decided to rectify the situation. Details, Details... 




As you can see, compression is a very healthy 158psi. Not bad at all for a stock MS460.

And the final set of pictures for this puppy, (cue the music) ...








I have since added 2 matching screws to hold the front screen retainer to the muffler cover.  This thing has turned out to be quite the gem.  I won't lie to you, there's money in this thing, but a lot less than a new MS460 sold for, which, you cannot, or soon will not, be able to buy one new ever again. 

Capping this build off with links to the tuning and test cut with this saw.  Maybe some more video of it in the future? 

Tuning the stock MS460.

Trimming some splits with the MS460.

The End  ​​


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## lukem (Mar 6, 2013)

Keeper?


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## MasterMech (Mar 6, 2013)

lukem said:


> Keeper?


It sure is tempting but I'm still planning to sell it eventually. I've barely made 2-3 cuts with it to date. Going to do everything I can to preserve it's cosmetic condition.


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## mecreature (Mar 6, 2013)

Good Job. Seems like yesterday you started on this.


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## lukem (Mar 6, 2013)

MasterMech said:


> I'm still planning to sell it eventually.


 
Then you'd better not make any more cuts with it .  You're holding a crack pipe...just don't light it and you might be able to sell it.


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## Jags (Mar 6, 2013)

Hmmm...I can see Stihl marketing now...

"The Crack pipe of the Chainsaw World. Once you fire it up, you're hooked"


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## smokinj (Mar 6, 2013)

How much you into it?


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## MasterMech (Mar 6, 2013)

smokinj said:


> How much you into it?


Gonna figure that one out soon.


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## mikefrommaine (Mar 6, 2013)

Looking good.

Did you decide to build two?


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## MasterMech (Mar 6, 2013)

mikefrommaine said:


> Looking good.
> 
> Did you decide to build two?


Prob gonna be an " epilog " of some kind. 

It will not be nearly as detailed as this thread.


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## Nixon (Mar 6, 2013)

MasterMech said:


> Prob gonna be an " epilog " of some kind.
> 
> It will not be nearly as detailed as this thread.


Thanks for a great and informative thread . I've really enjoyed following this 460 from dead to reborn .


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## NH_Wood (Mar 6, 2013)

Saw looks awesome MM - my vote is to keep this one, just on principle of time invested - you'll think of the process each time you run her (hmmmmmm.......perhaps that a bad thing?). Cheers!


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## DexterDay (Mar 6, 2013)

I say keep it, but I am Biased. 

Sell the 034, 031, and/or 230 and get a 261. 

A 460 and a 261... Thats a hell of a combo. 

Or a 460 and a 461  Even better combo. Run an 18" on the 460 and a 25" on the 461. Don't get much better than that


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## MasterMech (Mar 6, 2013)

DexterDay said:


> I say keep it, but I am Biased.
> 
> Sell the 034, 031, and/or 230 and get a 261.
> 
> ...


 
MS261, MS441C-M for sure, who knows how the rest of the fleet will pan out? 

There were thoughts of a 550XP instead of the MS261 but after several days of shock therapy, I feel better now. 

If I don't like the 441C-M, like really hate it, then I would do a MS461 but I really wanted the next saw to be M-tronic and ridin' on springs.


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## Thistle (Mar 7, 2013)

I'd keep it,sell the 031 & 034.


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## Nixon (Mar 7, 2013)

MasterMech said:


> There were thoughts of a 550XP instead of the MS261 but after several days of shock therapy, I feel better now. .


 Come over to the dark side, Luke . You know You want to .


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## LowGap2014 (Dec 2, 2014)

MasterMech said:


> The time has come!
> 
> Awhile back I aquired (freebie!) a MS460 that got in a fight with an F550 and lost.  The saw was barely a week old from what I understand. It's a total loss except for the cylinder, piston, crank, clutch and a few small items.
> 
> ...


MasterMech.....how can I contact you


MasterMech said:


> The time has come!
> 
> Awhile back I aquired (freebie!) a MS460 that got in a fight with an F550 and lost.  The saw was barely a week old from what I understand. It's a total loss except for the cylinder, piston, crank, clutch and a few small items.
> 
> ...


MasterMech....how can I contact you? wanting my Stihl 046 Magnum rebuilt.


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## BrotherBart (Dec 2, 2014)

He hangs out on www.arboristsite.com/


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