# Off Grid Power



## Cowboy Billy (Aug 3, 2010)

My Uncle Dennis was UP at our place in Michigan's UP. He stated "What are you going to do up here without any power?" I looked at him and said "the lights and radio are on but I don't hear any generator!" My little brother smiles and said "I am afraid they are going to cut off our power. I don't know where to send the bill and haven't sent in a payment in the four years we have had the place!"

   Well there no power line withing 1/2 mile of our place and we are not about to pay for a line to be put in. For the first three years we ran a generator when we needed power. Last year we got a used forklift battery and a 5000 watt power-inverter. And it has been working out very well for us there. I run 3-4 days off the battery and fire up the generator every 3-4 days for 5-6 hrs to charge the battery back up and only use about 2.5 to 3.5 gallons of fuel to do it.

   Using the generator for all our power was really inefficient. As most of the time it is burning fuel with little or no load on it. This way when we run it we are using its full power and not wasting fuel we don't have to.

   By the end of summer we should have two 750 watt wind-generators up. And that should supply all our power unless we are welding. Or have three days or more without wind which is not normal there. We do have two small solar panels on it right now. But they mainly make up for losses in the battery and do not make much for usable power.

   We have the battery and generator set up in a shed in the back. The battery is a small 1100 lb 24v forklift battery. The charge controller for the solar panel and eventually one wind-generator is directly behind the battery. The 5000 watt power inverter is on the back wall. 







   Our homemade generator. 20 hp chingfa diesel engine and 12000 watt ST generator head . It will run on diesel bio-diesel or strait vegetable oil. 






Billy


----------



## smokinj (Aug 3, 2010)

You got a very nice thing going there.


----------



## boatboy63 (Aug 3, 2010)

I applaude you for what you are doing. I would love to have solar cells set up at my house and tell the electric company to stick it. Got to looking at my electric bill last month and compared it to the one from a year ago. Even though we used less KWh this year, the bill was higher. My problem is that we live in a 115 old house that has been as well insulated as we can, but there is no substitute for insulating when built. I just wish I could afford to go solar, but with my job situation and the economy, I can't. Plan to build a gasification boiler before winter and save my $400+ electric bill during the cold months. This was in addition to running a woodstove 12 hours a day and also using propane space heaters.


----------



## oldspark (Aug 4, 2010)

Good job, not that easy to get off grid. what kind of wind gen. are yu getting and is 1500 watts enough power or are you still going to use your other gen plus the solar panel. What  is "normal" wattage consumption for you?


----------



## Cowboy Billy (Aug 4, 2010)

Thanks Jay

   Its a lot of work but we get a little done everytime we go UP.

Thanks BoatBoy

   I hear ya!! I too live in a old house it was built in 1933 and is ill built and I can't get to the areas that need to be insulated without doing major work. More than the house is worth. Before I got my wood furnace my floors would be ice cold. 

   I also have two wind-generators I am going to put up at home. Trying to supply my whole electric would be cost prohibitive to do at once. At home I just want to cut part of my electric costs. And as I can afford it slowly add more generating capability.

Howdy Oldspark

   We have ARI green energy wind-generators. We bought 5 two years ago. They were the best price we could find $700 for a 750 watt wind-generator and had other features we liked better than the other ones we looked at. When they said they were going to a dealer distribuition and the price was going up we bought all we could afford. They are $1125 apiece now.

    We don't have a normal wattage usage up there. It really depends on if we are working in the woods or the barn. We are usually only up there on the weekends. So if we draw heavy on the battery while we are up and it takes a few days to charge up after we leave its no big deal. Of coarse for now we have to charge it back up with the generator before we leave. If we are welding or using the air compressor a lot we just run the generator.

Moderator

   I started to post this here and when I could not get the pictures to show here I ended up posting it in the DIY form. I agree this is the best spot for it but it would be nice if there were img tags so the pictures would show. As I feel it looses a lot without them being visible in the post.

Billy


----------



## Highbeam (Aug 4, 2010)

I like the goofy changfa diesel genset. Almost as cool as the big listers.


----------



## Cowboy Billy (Aug 4, 2010)

Howdy Highbeam

   The lister is way cooler. I put that one together before I got my 14 hp lister. Since I had it 85% done and sitting in the garage. When we needed a generator for the farm we finished it up and took it up there.

Billy


----------



## Jags (Aug 5, 2010)

Good job on gettin' it done.  I like your genset too.  As alt energy becomes more cost effective, I think more and more are going to jump off of the grid.

Some day when I grow up, I would really like to play with a grid tied solar and I live in the perfect area for a wind generator.


----------



## SlyFerret (Aug 5, 2010)

Thanks for sharing your solution!  I thinking I should use a similar setup someday when I get around to buying some land and building a rustic little weekend cabin.

With a few extra components, you could even monitor the voltage level in the battery, and use an electric starter to automatically fire up the generator when the batteries start to get low, and shut it down again when the battery is fully charged.

Could this be done as effectively with a bank of 12v deep cycle marine batteries?  Or is there a specific reason you went with the 24v forklift battery?

-SF


----------



## begreen (Aug 6, 2010)

Jags said:
			
		

> Good job on gettin' it done.  I like your genset too.  As alt energy becomes more cost effective, I think more and more are going to jump off of the grid.
> 
> Some day when I grow up, I would really like to play with a grid tied solar and I live in the perfect area for a wind generator.



We don't have ideal solar and wind is really intermittent in our location. But no matter, I'm working on a method to recycle hot air from the internet. That seems like a limitless source.


----------



## Jags (Aug 6, 2010)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> Jags said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Until someone deletes the internets. :lol:


----------



## pyper (Aug 6, 2010)

SlyFerret said:
			
		

> Could this be done as effectively with a bank of 12v deep cycle marine batteries?



With 12v batteries and a generator you'd have the same setup as off-grid campers. When I charge my RV battery it takes about 6 or 8 hours. The advantage of 12v batteries is you can buy inexpensive voltage inverters. If you had enough solar/wind to keep the batteries charged, and used the generator to charge them when conditions necessitated it it might be pretty good. The deep cycle batteries use low current to charge (I think my charger maxes out at 70 watts of 112v) , so you could do it with a very small generator.


----------



## Highbeam (Aug 6, 2010)

Many of the off-grid guys use big banks of 12 volt batteries. Somewhat regular in size and shape. The RV world has lots of low level technology and many trailers are equipped with 60 amp chargers which is 720 watts for just the two deep cycle batteries on the nose. You need a bigger charger pyper. They're easy to upgrade. Cheapo trailers have 30-40 amp chargers these days. 

So long as you recharge with purchased fuel then I don't think you are truly off-grid. You are dependent on the utilities for making and delivering that fuel. That windmill or solar, maybe even hydro, is what really puts you into the off-grid IMO. With a big tank of diesel and rationed power use you could get by for a long long time.


----------



## Cowboy Billy (Aug 6, 2010)

Thanks Jags

Howdy SF

  Life span of a battery is a big consideration 3-4 years with a deep cycle and 5-7 years with a golf cart battery in this appclitation. While a deep cycle battery can be deep discharged it is not really designed to be constantly deep discharged and will really shorten the life span on the battery. A golfcart battery is much better than the deep cycle as it is designed for repeated deep discharges. Another thing is that if you charge them too fast it will reduce their life span. Third is all the battery connections you have to keep clean. If you have a large battery bank it could get to be a pain.  

  12v and 24v inverters are about the same price for the same wattage. But you can use smaller battery cables on the 24v as you use 1/2 the amps for the same output. I am running a 5000 watt inverter to use it a full capacity I am pulling 208 amps at 24v  I would be using 416 amps at 12v. You need big cables and clean connections or you will melt something! On the good side of 12v if the battery is low and the generator won't start you can run jumper cables to the car and charge it although that wouldn't be cost effective. For backup on my generator I have a 10hp and a 24v alternator. You could do the same with 12v alternator and save the cost of buying a generator.

   I have hard of forklift batterys lasting 35+ years. I can charge it at up to 100 amps if I had the capability. And I only have two battery cables to worry about. And it takes up a lot less room. On the bad side its heavy mine is a small one at 1100lbs. If a cell goes bad its a major job to replace it. Its not maintenance free I need to check and add distilled water a few times a year.

  The charge controller for the solar panel monitors the battery but does not have start function for a generator. But I think I have seen them for sale.

Cool BeGreen

  Let me know when you get it figured out. If I can adapt it to run off my uncles hot air I can junk the rest of this stuff!

Billy


----------



## jeff_t (Aug 6, 2010)

Where's your place at?


----------



## pyper (Aug 6, 2010)

Highbeam said:
			
		

> Many of the off-grid guys use big banks of 12 volt batteries. Somewhat regular in size and shape. The RV world has lots of low level technology and many trailers are equipped with 60 amp chargers which is 720 watts for just the two deep cycle batteries on the nose. You need a bigger charger pyper. They're easy to upgrade. Cheapo trailers have 30-40 amp chargers these days.



I was thinking of the battery charger that I store in my shed, and not the charger/converter in the camper. The one in the camper is pretty big -- it has to power the furnace blower (which I don't have), the pump, the lights, and so forth. 

In general the higher the charging current, the shorter the battery life, so I don't mind needing a half day to charge it. It takes the same amount of time to hook it up and put it away, there's just more hours between.


----------



## Cowboy Billy (Aug 6, 2010)

Highbeam said:
			
		

> So long as you recharge with purchased fuel then I don't think you are truly off-grid. You are dependent on the utilities for making and delivering that fuel. That windmill or solar, maybe even hydro, is what really puts you into the off-grid IMO. With a big tank of diesel and rationed power use you could get by for a long long time.



   I agree HighBeam. I am not there yet but I am working on it. When we started our original plan was to grow our own vegetable oil for fuel. Just run the generators in the winter pulling off all the heat from the engine to help heat the house and get free electric as a bonus. But so far my farming skills leaves much to be desired but while I haven't harvested anything yet the deer have!

Hi Jeff

   My house is about 10 miles west of Cabela's. And our farm is 45 past the Mackinaw Bridge in the eastern UP.

Billy


----------



## Slow1 (Aug 6, 2010)

Cowboy Billy said:
			
		

> But so far my farming skills leaves much to be desired but while I haven't harvested anything yet the deer have!




Hmmm... farming skills may be fine, perhaps your hunting/trapping skills need enhancement?


----------

