# Does anyone brew their own beer?



## JDC1 (Aug 18, 2011)

I just started this spring brewing extract kits and have to say I am very pleased with the results.  I have about 10 batches under my belt and am still refining the process but am producing some pretty good brews.


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## smokinj (Aug 18, 2011)

I have No advice, but have you ever made the cider beers? (apple are just around the conor)


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## JDC1 (Aug 18, 2011)

Nope, I have made a stout, porter some wits, and alot of ipa


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## SolarAndWood (Aug 18, 2011)

We just did this one, big hit with the ladies.  Currently laying out the hops arbors to put up this Fall.


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## jimbom (Aug 18, 2011)

JDC said:
			
		

> I just started this spring brewing extract kits and have to say I am very pleased with the results.  I have about 10 batches *under my belt* and am still refining the process but am producing some pretty good brews.



That is where mine goes.  If I brewed, there would be no controlling my waistline.


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## Highbeam (Aug 18, 2011)

My dad got me into this hobby two years ago and I've made about 8-5 gallon batches so far. I make clones from recipes available from my local homebrew shop. Most of the time I use real hops, specialty grains, and the 7 lbs of liquid malt extract. That's what folks seem to call extract beer. Then there's the kits where you don't even use real hops. I made 3 batches using the partial mash method which is very easy but doesn't really improve the taste much. I have not done an all-grain batch and don't really see a reason to do it yet. I only bottle, no kegs. 

My favorites are pale ales. In fact, a fresh batch of Alaskan Amber Ale has just completed carbing and I've got two 22 ouncers in the fridge. 

Currently, in the carboy, is 5 gallons of hard cider. It is my first try at a cider and I am very impressed with how easy it is so far. If it works then I'm going to repeat with fresh cider from the local orchards. 

My 5 gallon batches cost right at 25$ to make. You can barely buy junk canned beer for that and the beer is excellent. My only less than excellent but still drinkable batch was a blackberry wheat ale that I used a whole crapload of fresh blackberries in. Stick to the clone recipes.


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## JDC1 (Aug 18, 2011)

Is that a strawberry wit?

I use real hops, steeping grains and extract as well.  Currently am fermenting a milk stout and a citra rye ipa which turns out excellent.  I just started kegging and am not sure if I like it or bottling better.  I have a chinook ipa carbing up as we speak that is going to be excellent.

I have a friend that does only all grain and made the comment after he tasted a few of my brews that he is wasting his time with all grain.  I agree.  If I can turn out a great beer in half the time, I am going to stick with extract or partial mash brewing.  I might try all grain in the future just to compare.


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## JDC1 (Aug 18, 2011)

JimboM said:
			
		

> JDC said:
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I am actually drinking less now that I put in all of the work.  It is like my firewood, I have so much time involved that I really dont want to see it wasted.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Aug 19, 2011)

I just got started brewing and plan on doing several successive batches to add to the winter larder.  I've got to get some more bottles.  Got too much going on with the garden and canning right now.  

Tomorrow will be the first day in the last week that I haven't done any canning related work, planning on getting some smoked sausages and going to camp.


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## jeff_t (Aug 19, 2011)

I started brewing 7-8 years ago. Ended up doing 11-12 gallon all grain batches. I found myself drinking a lot, and I sold all my stuff a couple of months ago. I couldn't have cases and cases of really good beer sitting around. Pretty much every day that I didn't have to work, I ended up sucking beers by the end of the day. I couldn't have just one or two either, and that's a problem when it's 7-8% abv IPAs. My father was an alcoholic, and that's not gonna be me. Not saying that I quit drinking, just now I have to buy it and I hate paying $10 for six good beers.

And yes, I am a beer snob.


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## SolarAndWood (Aug 19, 2011)

JDC said:
			
		

> Is that a strawberry wit?



Strawberry Blonde.  Ended up being 6% with a lot of character.  Recipe is on the 3rd page of this thread if you are interested:

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/74976/P30/#881830


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## firefighterjake (Aug 19, 2011)

One of my co-workers is using me as a guinea pig for his brewing experiments . . . he says he likes my opinions since I tell him straight up if I like it or not vs. his family and close friends who often sugarcoat their compliments . . . he is getting better . . . the first cider he gave me tasted like turpentine . . . the last drink I tried was a strawberry lemonade and it was getting better . . . still needs to be a little more smooth.


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## VTrider (Aug 21, 2011)

Glad to see so many fellow Homebrewers here on Hearth! I started brewing back in 90's and to this day still remains one of my favorite hobbies.  Strictly extract w/occasional partial mash, grow my own hops and I both keg and bottle.  For a while, 'next year' was always the year when I was going to dive into all grain, but due to money / equipment & experience that day never seemed to materialize.  Funny thing is, now that I have the money / equipment & experience, I just don't have the time!

Jumped right into wines, meads & ciders about 5 years ago and pleasantly happy with the results - pretty much the same basic concepts, just had get used to waiting 'years' instead of weeks.  I find myself in the produce section of the grocery store asking myself.."I wonder how that ferments?  ".  Anyway, if anybody is in the least bit interested in brewing their own beer I highly encourage it.


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## homebrewz (Aug 22, 2011)

Just brewed a porter yesterday and checked into hearth for the first time in a while and saw this thread.

I started homebrewing in 1996 and brewed extract for a year or two and then made the jump to all-grain. I made some pretty good beers with extracts, and my friends liked them too, but I noticed that the extract beers always had an extract "taste" associated with them. I found this mostly went away with several months of aging and it was more forgiving with the darker beers. I also noticed that my all-grain beers tasted more fresh. I've heard this from others as well. Then again, I was also a novice brewer back then.
All of that aside, I enjoy the all-grain process. Its more work, but I have a lot more control over the ingredients in the mash. For instance, last fall I bought a bag of organic pale malt and made some organic brews. Plus, I buy most of my ingredients wholesale so on average I'm making beer for around $0.50 a pint. 

Solar, I used to make a strawberry pale ale every June. Very similar to your recipe. 

A couple years ago I started looking for some podcasts on homebrewing and found the brewing network, based in southern CA. I've learned a lot of good stuff listening to their shows.


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## JDC1 (Aug 22, 2011)

homebrewz said:
			
		

> Just brewed a porter yesterday and checked into hearth for the first time in a while and saw this thread.
> 
> I started homebrewing in 1996 and brewed extract for a year or two and then made the jump to all-grain. I made some pretty good beers with extracts, and my friends liked them too, but I noticed that the extract beers always had an extract "taste" associated with them. I found this mostly went away with several months of aging and it was more forgiving with the darker beers. I also noticed that my all-grain beers tasted more fresh. I've heard this from others as well. Then again, I was also a novice brewer back then.
> All of that aside, I enjoy the all-grain process. Its more work, but I have a lot more control over the ingredients in the mash. For instance, last fall I bought a bag of organic pale malt and made some organic brews. Plus, I buy most of my ingredients wholesale so on average I'm making beer for around $0.50 a pint.
> ...



I have read about the extract taste as well, it is caused by either stale extract, caramelization of the extract or poor brewing process.  To combat it, add the majority of the extract additions either 15 minutes before the end of the boil or at flameout.  It will also result in a lighter color.


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## Highbeam (Aug 22, 2011)

Be sure to boil the extract too to kill the bugs. The boil is a great sterilization step. I would like a lighter beer color too. The extract recipes all seem to result in a copper or darker beer. 

It felt really weird when I loaded this hard cider into the fermenter and never had to boil anything.


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## homebrewz (Aug 22, 2011)

Boiling all of the extract is essential as many chemical reactions take place during the boil which are beneficial to brewing. 

Extracts come typically in extra light, light, amber, or dark. You can mix and match to achieve what you're looking for. If anyone who is brewing extract hasn't tried adding some specialty grains to the pre-boil, I definitely recommend it.


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## backpack09 (Aug 25, 2011)

Find a recipie for an american ale and you will get a nice light colored beer.


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## Highbeam (Aug 25, 2011)

Backpack09 said:
			
		

> Find a recipie for an american ale and you will get a nice light colored beer.



Not if you use extract. Even the belgian whites aren't that light. Of course, the color doesn't make it taste any different so it's no big deal.


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## johnsopi (Oct 2, 2011)

I stated brewing this summer and just setup kegging this week. A lot of fun.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Oct 2, 2011)

I bottled some stout last Tuesday and my fermenter is gurgling away on a holiday ginger ale.  Just a 3.5 gallon sample run.

I'll have to get more bottles to do another batch.


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## Mrs. Krabappel (Oct 3, 2011)

I am just working with my very first batch


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## homebrewz (Oct 3, 2011)

~*~Kathleen~*~ said:
			
		

> I am just working with my very first batch



Great!  Post your results sometime.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Oct 3, 2011)

~*~Kathleen~*~ said:
			
		

> I am just working with my very first batch



You'll know that you have the brewing bug bad when you start wondering at what will ferment well while walking through the veggie and fruit isles at the supermarket.


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## JDC1 (Oct 3, 2011)

If I am not cutting/splitting/stacking or mowing, I am usually doing something that pertains to my homebrew.  I have a single keg system but also like to bottle.  It is like firewood to see the 2 cases per batch stacked up.

Right now, I have a brown ale and milk stout in secondary, a xmas ale and imperial nutbrown in primary and just bottled/kegged an imperial red, citra rye ipa and a belgian wit.


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## Highbeam (Oct 3, 2011)

Wood Fox said:
			
		

> I stated brewing this summer and just setup kegging this week. A lot of fun.



I am jealous. Just last night I slogged in from working my butt off building a shed to bottle 5 gallons of hard cider that has been sitting for 5 weeks in secondary. It took a couple of hours to sanitize everything and then siphon to the bottling bucket and then fill and cap the bottles. Ugh. I know the payoff is worth it but kegging would be much faster both in labor and in wait time to first draft.

The cider was purchased with 1.050 OG and finished at 1.004 for just about 5% of naturally occuring ABV. All I added was yeast.


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## JDC1 (Oct 3, 2011)

Can you post the recipe for the cider.  Does it still taste like cider after fermentation?


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## Agent (Oct 6, 2011)

This is easily one of the greatest hobbies anybody could have.  Kicking back in front of a fire with a homebrew is the ultimate in relaxation.


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## timfromohio (Oct 6, 2011)

Homebrewing and woodburning are just so complimentary ...

I started homebrewing last year and have done 4 kits from Northern Brewer, 1 wine kit, and 1 batch of cider in which I followed a recipe devised by a coworker who is a very experienced homebrew.  All turned out very well.  I follow the instructions to the "t" and the extract kits have turned out very well.  

For me, homebrewing is a late Fall and Winter hobby - spring and summer are devoted to gardening.  So I'm now looking for what kits I'll try next - thinking of a Scottish ale - any opinions?


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## Danno77 (Oct 6, 2011)

yay for this thread. I'm all about homebrew, but have only done a couple of batches ever. I have decided that my next will be some sort of a blue moon, or golden wheat or whatever the kit may be called. Has anybody done one like this? any suggestions on a source for one?


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## timfromohio (Oct 6, 2011)

Danno77 said:
			
		

> yay for this thread. I'm all about homebrew, but have only done a couple of batches ever. I have decided that my next will be some sort of a blue moon, or golden wheat or whatever the kit may be called. Has anybody done one like this? any suggestions on a source for one?



I've been very happy with everything I've gotten from northern brewer - send off for their catalogue.  The only problem is that all of the kits look/sound so tasty ... I want to make them all.  

Also, they have $7.99 flat rate shipping for the majority of the items so it behooves you to order several kits or combine an order with friends, etc.


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## Jack Straw (Oct 6, 2011)

I home brewed for several years, then I got 4 bad batches in a row. I think I got bacteria growing somewhere in the process. I do miss the great beer!


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## btuser (Oct 6, 2011)

There are 3 brewerys opening within 5 miles of me.   I'm too busy supporting my local businesses


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## JDC1 (Oct 7, 2011)

timfromohio said:
			
		

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Northern Brewer is a great supplier.  Their kits are well packaged and easy to follow.  I have done the Dead Ringer, Chinook IPA and American Wheat.  All turned out excellent.  I started homebrewing in April and have done a dozen batches so far.  It is really addicting.


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## timfromohio (Oct 7, 2011)

I have done NB's (1) Irish Red, (2) Dry Irish Stout, (3) Pattiersbeer, and (4) "Innkeeper" - a British bitter.  All are excellent.


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## Highbeam (Oct 7, 2011)

JDC said:
			
		

> Can you post the recipe for the cider.  Does it still taste like cider after fermentation?



The best, and weirdest, part of a hard cider is that there is pretty much no recipe or cooking involved. Simply dump the juice into the fermenter and add the proper yeast. You can always add things if you want more alcohol or if you like other flavorings but if you like apples then you just stick to the pure cider. There is enough natural sugar in pure cider to get you more alcohol than most beer. 

There are commercial hard ciders available. In my area there is a brand called hornsby and in the east there is woodchuck. I think it tastes like applejuice. Sweet and fizzy but with a slight alcohol aftertaste. It's a good sipper. Plus gluten free if that matters to you.


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## timfromohio (Oct 8, 2011)

If you do a search on my posts I believe I posted a couple of recipes last year for cider.  A coworker made multiple batches - two had additional fermentables, one with spices and one without, and two batches did not have additional fermentables, again one had spices and the other none.  I followed the recipe for the strong, no spices cider and it was/is excellent.  If you cannot find it, let me know and I'll post it again, although it probably won't get posted until Monday.


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## firefighterjake (Oct 11, 2011)

Highbeam said:
			
		

> JDC said:
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Big fan of Woodchuck . . . it's a good cider if you like something to be less "alcoholly" tasting . . . they do make different types though -- some of which have a much different taste from their classic "recipe."


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## Todd (Oct 12, 2011)

I started brewing back in the early 90's with extract and eventually moved on to all grain. Lots of good times and good beers. I think I have brewed every major style, joined clubs, entered contests and enjoyed the hobby very much. Last couple years I started brewing mead, lost intrest in beer and sold my beer stuff to a friend. Now I'm thinking of trying the wine thing since the wife is kind of interested, she never really liked the beer or mead but loves wine.


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## Danno77 (Jan 2, 2012)

Got this for Christmas, and it's about 48 hours into the ferment.  Has anybody tried this particular brew? Or maybe other kits from True Brew?

http://www.monsterbrew.com/Prod_AmericanWheat.cfm

I've also been looking at making some labels. This website is super fun and easy! Try it out.
http://www.says-it.com/seal/

I might post something if can decide on something I really like!


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## Agent (Jan 2, 2012)

I just bottled an American Wheat (not a TrueBrew though) a few days ago, and even opened a bottle later that day since it was sooooo good
I have used their kits once - It was a Light German or something along those lines - It was ok, but that could have easily been my amateur brewing ways.
After three days of nonstop foaming discharge, I finally got to take the blowoff tube off my Maibock ale - I've never seen such a rambunctious beer before, and hope it doesn't make me that wild and crazy during consumption!
My labeling involves taking a sharpie to the cap.  I'm neither artsy nor clever enough to design a respectable label.


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## Danno77 (Jan 2, 2012)

Agent said:
			
		

> I just bottled an American Wheat (not a TrueBrew though) a few days ago, and even opened a bottle later that day since it was sooooo good
> I have used their kits once - It was a Light German or something along those lines - It was ok, but that could have easily been my amateur brewing ways.
> After three days of nonstop foaming discharge, I finally got to take the blowoff tube off my Maibock ale - I've never seen such a rambunctious beer before, and hope it doesn't make me that wild and crazy during consumption!
> My labeling involves taking a sharpie to the cap.  I'm neither artsy nor clever enough to design a respectable label.


What American Wheat did you make?


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## Agent (Jan 2, 2012)

I started with the Norther Brewer American Wheat (all grain) kit last year, but lucky for me they include the actual recipe in their kit and I just copied it for all my later ones.  During the summer, one keg is always devoted to either a citrus wheat, cherry wheat, or the occasional plain wheat.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 2, 2012)

Hard apple cider.

Six gallon batch:

Heat 6 gallons of sweet cider to 165Â°F to kill off any natural yeasts (while these normally work just fine, you can get some really nasty ones).  You can add 0.5 pounds of light brown sugar per gallon and any spices if desired before heating.

Run through a wort chiller into your primary fermenter.   When temperature is below 30 Â°C  pitch a good champagne yeast (the abv can get quite high especially if you add additional sugars).

Insert your air lock, be prepared for a long fermentation and an even longer conditioning.

I bottle from my primary fermenter and condition in the bottles.  The primary took over 2 weeks and wasn't quite done when I put it into my PET bottles.   This will be changing shortly.

Minimum conditioning time is 3 months and gets really good after one year.

Make certain that the cider you use has not been chemically pasteurized or had preservatives added as it will not ferment.


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## JDC1 (Jan 2, 2012)

Agent said:
			
		

> I started with the Norther Brewer American Wheat (all grain) kit last year, but lucky for me they include the actual recipe in their kit and I just copied it for all my later ones.  During the summer, one keg is always devoted to either a citrus wheat, cherry wheat, or the occasional plain wheat.




I have been brewing double batches (two recipes) lately and always brew a drinking beer for the keg and a stronger sipping beer for bottles.  I will be building a better kegerator in the near future and would like to have room for 4-5 kegs w/ 2-3 on tap.

I really enjoy Northern Brewers kits, I recently did my first all grain and brewed their Cream Ale which turned out great.  I have their Rye IPA ready to go into the keg and have a sweet stout in the secondary as well as Surly Bender.  My next brew day will be their Chinook IPA which I have brewed the extract version but will be doing an AG batch.


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## JDC1 (Jan 2, 2012)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

> Hard apple cider.
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> Six gallon batch:
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I have been looking for a cider recipe, I think I will try this soon.


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## Pallet Pete (Jan 2, 2012)

Amazing there are fellow brewers here I feel even more at home now  ;-) 

Kudos fellow brewers
Pete


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## Danno77 (Jan 2, 2012)

Just keeping this thread at the top. Check out this label I made. Took about 2 minutes.


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## timfromohio (Jan 3, 2012)

Regarding the cider - I use campden tablets to kill off the natural yeast rather than heating.


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## homebrewz (Jan 3, 2012)

There are many brewers on this site.. and even more beer appreciators. 

Danno, thanks for the link. I'll give that a try. If my friends are lucky, they get a piece of printer paper taped to the bottle with barely legible scratchings. 
Otherwise, I just take a sharpie to the cap. A friend made labels for me once, printed on sticky-back paper. I coated them with clear spray-on acrylic so the ink wouldn't run.


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## Danno77 (Jan 3, 2012)

homebrewz said:
			
		

> There are many brewers on this site.. and even more beer appreciators.
> 
> Danno, thanks for the link. I'll give that a try. If my friends are lucky, they get a piece of printer paper taped to the bottle with barely legible scratchings.
> Otherwise, I just take a sharpie to the cap. A friend made labels for me once, printed on sticky-back paper. I coated them with clear spray-on acrylic so the ink wouldn't run.


I heard something about regular paper and milk?!?!?

I'll just be using some sticky label paper that I ordered from a brewing website.


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## pyper (Jan 3, 2012)

Danno77 said:
			
		

> I heard something about regular paper and milk?!?!?



Only way I ever did it. Just wipe on the milk and put the label on the bottle. Sticks like glue (pun intended)>

Easy to remove too -- just soak in water and they come right off. 

I have some that I put on bottles over 10 years ago (anniversary barleywine) and they are still stuck strong.

Regarding the cider -- I have a batch (in process) made from pasteurized grocery store cider and dry Red Star montreche yeast. If you use grocery store cider, avoid the kind with preservatives since they can inhibit the yeast. It was old yeast, so it's not going very well. The next batch will be better though -- I'm going to drain the cider off the yeast and pour in more cider.

It will ferment better if you shake air into it before adding yeast.

A friend of mine used to use raisins as a yeast source for cider. Makes sense, but I never tried it.


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## JDC1 (Jan 3, 2012)

pyper said:
			
		

> Danno77 said:
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I had a witbier yeast contaminate a keg of brown ale, it tasted like dark witbier.  Would the raisins bring unpredictable yeast with them or do the carry a consistent yeast.  I like idea of champagne yeast to make a repeatable cider.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 3, 2012)

timfromohio said:
			
		

> Regarding the cider - I use campden tablets to kill off the natural yeast rather than heating.



I use the heat because it also aids in dissolving the sugar and getting even dispersement of the spices.  Just remember you do not boil cider or for that matter any fruit juice mixtures, if you do you are heading for jelly.


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## firefighterjake (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm thinking I may need to make a trip to Standish at some point in the future.


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## oldspark (Jan 3, 2012)

Danno77 said:
			
		

> Just keeping this thread at the top. Check out this label I made. Took about 2 minutes.


 Shouldn't your label have an old man setting on a milk crate splitting ash with a scowl on his face?


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## begreen (Jan 3, 2012)

JDC said:
			
		

> I had a witbier yeast contaminate a keg of brown ale, it tasted like dark witbier.  Would the raisins bring unpredictable yeast with them or do the carry a consistent yeast.  I like idea of champagne yeast to make a repeatable cider.



We had some hard apple cider made with champagne yeast over the holidays. It was fantastic. I have to try this!


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## pyper (Jan 3, 2012)

JDC said:
			
		

> I had a witbier yeast contaminate a keg of brown ale, it tasted like dark witbier.  Would the raisins bring unpredictable yeast with them or do the carry a consistent yeast.  I like idea of champagne yeast to make a repeatable cider.




This is the yeast I use for any sort of fruit. It always works well, without introducing flavors:

http://www.williamsbrewing.com/RED-STAR-MONTRACHET-YEAST-P1276C128.aspx

For $0.75 a pack, it's hard for me to justify playing with raisins. I suspect they'd be good though -- when they make wine the traditional way it's just grapes with the yeast that's on them. 

I used champagne yeast to finish a beer once and it definitely added flavors.


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## Danno77 (Jan 3, 2012)

I don't speak much German, so if the online translator is right, then this says "Make Firewood Vertically... Drink beer until you are horizontal"

Best I could do on short notice...


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## oldspark (Jan 3, 2012)

Or maybe it says "Drink too much of this and it will kick your ash!"


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## timfromohio (Jan 3, 2012)

Champagne yeast is all I have used in my cider - I usually add extra fermentables as well - last year I made a batch that was technically a mead based on honey content.  Since then, I have purchased a 3 gallon carboy and this winter will make two, three gallon batches - one with added fermentables, one without.  Last year I did a single 5 gallon batch.  I also have a St. Paul porter in secondary right next to the cider.  

My labeling consists of a sharpie mark on the cap as well!

I did make a batch of wine and we had labels made up for it - sort of fun to do.


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## Highbeam (Jan 3, 2012)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> JDC said:
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Over Xmas I had 15 family members over and we consumed a pretty good quantity of my latest hard cider. It was wonderful. All commercial cider sold must be pasteurized. This is a good thing so long as they don't do it with chemicals. We bought cider from a local orchard in Enumclaw that does it with temperature. 5.5 gallons of honeycrisp cider that was very sweet and cloudy. 

So I then added 2#s of brown sugar to bump up the alcohol content. I did this by warming up a half gallon of cider until it steamed and then dissolving the sugar in that pot, then add to the fermenter along with the remaining 4.5 gallons and the yeast load. I use nottingham ale yeast since I do not like the taste of wine or champagne. 

Cider is very easy to make. No heating is required, commercial cider is prepasteurized so no campden tablets (sulfites=yuk), yeast of your choice and let it work. Beer is much more difficult. 

The cider in this last batch was high quality and the finished product really was superior to my "proof of concept" run with motts supermarket cider.


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## timfromohio (Jan 4, 2012)

The pasteurization rule must vary by state - here in Ohio I purchase bulk cider from serveral orchards close to my house that press and sell their own - neither pastuerize but I believe one runs the cider through a UV filter.  For anyone interested, I suggest talking with local orchard owners - at both places I mentioned I can drop off my own (cleaned and labeled) bucket and they'll fill it for me when they are pressing saving me $0.50/gallon.  Great deal and supporting the locals.


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## Highbeam (Jan 4, 2012)

Good point, it might be state law, not sure. Kinda like milk must be pasteurized, maybe also homogenized, before sale but if you know the farmer you can sometimes get him to sell you some raw milk.


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## fredarm (Jan 4, 2012)

Danno77 said:
			
		

> Got this for Christmas, and it's about 48 hours into the ferment.  Has anybody tried this particular brew? Or maybe other kits from True Brew?
> 
> http://www.monsterbrew.com/Prod_AmericanWheat.cfm



I've brewed several True Brew kits (a brown ale, red ale, a Canadian ale, and a porter) and had good luck with each of them.  Time to brew another batch!  Maybe an amber or pale ale.  I've tried kegging and bottling and prefer the results with bottling.  The keg is now used for making root beer for the kids.


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## JDC1 (Jan 5, 2012)

fredarm said:
			
		

> Danno77 said:
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Thats funny, I thought I was the only one to like bottling over kegging. I like to taste the beer as it ages and my kegs seem to go to fast.


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## pyper (Jan 10, 2012)

JDC said:
			
		

> Thats funny, I thought I was the only one to like bottling over kegging. I like to taste the beer as it ages and my kegs seem to go to fast.



_In general_, if your beer improves with age, it's a sign that there is some part of your process that can be improved.


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## Highbeam (Jan 10, 2012)

Well now, the experts all seem to think that there is a peak of greatness between green beer and old beer. 

I've witnessed improved carbonation in beer and cider over time which I like. The beer didn't really taste better over time but the cider taste did improve over time.


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## Agent (Jan 11, 2012)

I personally like to bottle vs keg as well, mostly because I don't like to take up fridge space with something that I couldn't stand to drink every single day.  
I also think there is more of a three way split as to beers and aging - 1) Aging helps hide minor flaws (who's perfect?)  2) Aging is not helpful (wheats/highly hopped brews)  3) Aging brings balance to the beer much like it does wine (Ever try a 2 month old barleywine vs a 2 year old one?)


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## homebrewz (Jan 11, 2012)

There is a certain "sweet spot" that can be found in certain beers. Generally, the stronger the beer the better it ages. I've also noticed that extract-based beer can benefit from a few months of aging. 

"A barleywine before its time is like a mountain without a peak" -Charlie Papazian


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## SolarAndWood (Jan 11, 2012)

homebrewz said:
			
		

> "A barleywine before its time is like a mountain without a peak" -Charlie Papazian



There is a place for both.  I like equally a fresh fresh hopped IPA just as much as a 4 year old barleywine.  Finding a couple guys with similar tastes to share batches solved the too old problem for us.  It also lets us consolidate the equipment investment, grow a lot more of the ingredients ourselves and the product never gets too old.


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## fredarm (Jan 11, 2012)

On one of my batches, I bottled half and kegged half, aged it for the same amount of time, and tasted.  I thought the bottled beer tasted better than the kegged beer.  That was my unscientific test, and I've been bottling ever since.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 12, 2012)

timfromohio said:
			
		

> The pasteurization rule must vary by state - here in Ohio I purchase bulk cider from serveral orchards close to my house that press and sell their own - neither pastuerize but I believe one runs the cider through a UV filter.  For anyone interested, I suggest talking with local orchard owners - at both places I mentioned I can drop off my own (cleaned and labeled) bucket and they'll fill it for me when they are pressing saving me $0.50/gallon.  Great deal and supporting the locals.



The UV setup is also known as cold pasteurization and is one of three legally allowed methods that can be used before selling to the public in most states, the other two are heat (165 degrees Fahrenheit or more, but not boiled), and chemical. 

You have to stay away from the ciders with preservatives as they will not ferment (almost all store cider is this way).


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## timfromohio (Jan 12, 2012)

I purchased plans to build my own "whizbang" cider press system from Herrick Kimball, link below, and hope to press my own soon:

http://www.whizbangcider.com/


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## SolarAndWood (Jan 12, 2012)

That's pretty cool Tim.  Solves a lot of the issues I have with mine.  I can't imagine ever making cider in the kitchen though.


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## pyper (Jan 12, 2012)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

> You have to stay away from the ciders with preservatives as they will not ferment (almost all store cider is this way).



I've done it, but you need a big starter.

Regarding the aging -- if you look at brewery operations you'll see that no one ages beer, aside from barlyewine. It doesn't matter if it's AB, a microbrewery, or a brewpub. Once it's done, it's done. Like most homebrewers, I've had beers that improved with age. Sometimes dramatically. That's just not the goal. Kind of like burning wet wood. ;-)

I made a cider press at our old house from scrap wood and a piece of laminate countertop. The press was a 20 ton jack and I used plastic cutting boards for the pressing layers. It worked really well for the cost.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 12, 2012)

pyper said:
			
		

> SmokeyTheBear said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You were lucky as some preservatives kill yeast with very low concentrations of the preservative being present.  



> Regarding the aging -- if you look at brewery operations you'll see that no one ages beer, aside from barlyewine. It doesn't matter if it's AB, a microbrewery, or a brewpub. Once it's done, it's done. Like most homebrewers, I've had beers that improved with age. Sometimes dramatically. That's just not the goal. Kind of like burning wet wood. ;-)
> 
> I made a cider press at our old house from scrap wood and a piece of laminate countertop. The press was a 20 ton jack and I used plastic cutting boards for the pressing layers. It worked really well for the cost.



Brewery operations are in and out round and about operation there are a large number of beers that actually require aging.

About the cider press I'm just about smack dab in the middle of 4 orchards with operating presses.  I've seen dozens of plans for a press and am thinking of building a small one,  I plan on using a hydraulic jack to do the pressing chores.


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## timfromohio (Jan 12, 2012)

SolarandWood - thanks, and yes - pressing in the kitchen sounds ... messy.  I was thinking the back patio or garage if raining.  On the patio would be best, perhaps with a small fire going in the outdoor fire pit.  That way one could enjoy the fire while pressing (this is after all a forum for folks who like to burn wood!)

Smokey - there is not much unique in the actual press design in the plans/book from Whizbang - the key differences between what Mr. Kimball uses and other home-based systems is his use of a garbage disposal instead of a grinder (makes a much finer pulp to press and he has demonstrated much higher yields) and his use of hard plastic plates in between layers of the pulp.  It's a neat setup and I recommend his plans - the book is well laid out, diagrams are excellent, and overall it's easy to understand how to build one.  I think that the plans detail the use of a bottle jack as well as scissor jack.  I'm close to a couple of orchards as well and would like to try pressing my own.  I also have access to free pears and might try a pear cider.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 12, 2012)

timfromohio said:
			
		

> SolarandWood - thanks, and yes - pressing in the kitchen sounds ... messy.  I was thinking the back patio or garage if raining.  On the patio would be best, perhaps with a small fire going in the outdoor fire pit.  That way one could enjoy the fire while pressing (this is after all a forum for folks who like to burn wood!)
> 
> Smokey - there is not much unique in the actual press design in the plans/book from Whizbang - the key differences between what Mr. Kimball uses and other home-based systems is his use of a garbage disposal instead of a grinder (makes a much finer pulp to press and he has demonstrated much higher yields) and his use of hard plastic plates in between layers of the pulp.  It's a neat setup and I recommend his plans - the book is well laid out, diagrams are excellent, and overall it's easy to understand how to build one.  I think that the plans detail the use of a bottle jack as well as scissor jack.  I'm close to a couple of orchards as well and would like to try pressing my own.  I also have access to free pears and might try a pear cider.



I'm also in the middle of growing my own apple and pear trees.   I am getting a few apples and pears, but I can wait for the trees we planted on the lot to do some more growing, so you want to do a Perry.   I've though about that as well.  Man am I going to gain weight.

I saw a plan for making a grinder, we already have a grinder I have put a pile of things through while canning, it makes short work of apples and such.  But a garbage disposal is interesting,  I'll have to think on that.


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## timfromohio (Jan 12, 2012)

Smokey - a neighbor of mine has a couple of full-size pear trees and told me to pick as much as I wanted.  I picked about 150lbs of pears and a co-worker took home about 100lbs of pears.  He used a juicer on the pears and I sampled some of the resulting pear cider - a bit disappointing, not nearly as sweet as apple cider.  Would still be interesting to ferment though ...  

What variety of trees do you have?  We were thinking of planting some this spring - would like to plant varieties that my kids really like - Honeycrisp, PinkLady, Fuji.  Plus a couple pear, peach, and cherry trees.  

In the cider press plans, he uses a (new) garbage disposal hooked up to a heavier-duty industrial motor - it makes a really fine pulp.

Homebrewing is dangerous though - so many recipes and they all look tasty.


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## pyper (Jan 12, 2012)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

> Brewery operations are in and out round and about operation there are a large number of beers that actually require aging.



If you can name any I'd be interested to read up on that. It's been a number of years since I've studied brewery operations, but I definitely can't remember any style of beer that requires aging as part of the brewing process except for barleywine. 




> About the cider press I'm just about smack dab in the middle of 4 orchards with operating presses.  I've seen dozens of plans for a press and am thinking of building a small one,  I plan on using a hydraulic jack to do the pressing chores.



It's basically just a table.

I used a garbage disposal as a grinder the first season. It functioned, but the thermal fuse kept tripping. I was definitely going to build a different grinder, but then the next season the crop failed and then we moved.

About the store cider -- if it has an sulfites in it then it should be on the label. I wouldn't try them. Many of the store ciders have ascorbic acid in them, which will inhibit yeast, but only in small quantities. These are the type I've fermented successfully, many times.


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## timfromohio (Jan 13, 2012)

pyper - the plans I referenced a few posts back call for the use of a garbage disposal but the guy upgrades to a industrial motor for the very reason you referenced


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 13, 2012)

timfromohio said:
			
		

> Smokey - a neighbor of mine has a couple of full-size pear trees and told me to pick as much as I wanted.  I picked about 150lbs of pears and a co-worker took home about 100lbs of pears.  He used a juicer on the pears and I sampled some of the resulting pear cider - a bit disappointing, not nearly as sweet as apple cider.  Would still be interesting to ferment though ...
> 
> What variety of trees do you have?  We were thinking of planting some this spring - would like to plant varieties that my kids really like - Honeycrisp, PinkLady, Fuji.  Plus a couple pear, peach, and cherry trees.
> 
> ...



I have an Asian pear tree and a Bosch, the apples are Liberty and Fuji, I also have an Alberta Peach tree and need to plant another one.

The grinder we have is a very old one that has a selection of plates etc ... It can juice a lot of things if you mismatch things in the plate and wheel department.   We use it for a lot of canning and meat grinding.

I can also get access to a grinder at an orchard that no longer makes cider.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 13, 2012)

pyper,  

For starters a true porter requires an aged beer as an ingredient.  

A hard cider really isn't good until it is aged, likewise meads, cycsers, perrys, and mellomells.

Most stuff done at a brewery goes from ingredients to bottle in about 4 days and then gets shipped to the stores.  Usually with a marked shelf life of 6 months. 

Look up lagering sometime it is a fairly long process compared to the current brewery practice.  Now the craft breweries are an entirely different kettle of fermentables.  

It actually takes time for all of the flavors in a beer to meld together.    This is especially true of any spiced beers.

I don't have enough time to try every thing I'd like to nor could my waist line take it.


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## JDC1 (Jan 13, 2012)

Perfect example of how aging effects a beer;

I brewed a christmas ale in October, bottled early November and cracked the first one the week before Christmas.  It was undrinkable as the recipe had too much ginger in it.  Had another one last night and it is a good beer as the ginger has toned down and is not as pronounced.

The bigger the beer the better it tastes with some age.  I have an imperial red that was brewed fathers day of this year and it is one of my family's favorites that I have done to date.  I like my IPAs and Wits fresh.  I also prefer to eat my venison chili after it has been in the fridge a few days as the flavor seems to be better.


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## timfromohio (Jan 13, 2012)

smokey - did you go with semi-dwarf trees?  That's what we're looking at.

Last night my wife and I were watching a show on youtube called "River Cottage" - I think it's a BBC show, but people have uploaded the episodes in 15 minute clips onto youtube (as an aside, we have watched many excellent shows not available in this country via youtube including "Tales from the Green Valley", "Victorian Farm", and "Edwardian Farm" - all shows about people living as if there were on farms in various times throughout English/Welsh history - EXCELLENT SHOWS).  Anyway, this particular episode was River Cottage Winter and they showed a small commerical operation making and bottling perry  I thought it was really neat to see given the recent perry discussion here.  I encourage folks here to check it out.


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## pyper (Jan 13, 2012)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

> pyper,
> 
> For starters a true porter requires an aged beer as an ingredient.



That seems to be the case -- thanks. The book I have at hand, Ray Daniels _Designing Great Beers_ goes into the history of Porter with some detail, including a description of a very large aging tank back in the 18th c. It's not clear from his book how common it is for Porter to be aged today, but he does suggest experimenting with a particular bacteria.




> A hard cider really isn't good until it is aged, likewise meads, cycsers, perrys, and mellomells.



Sure, but they're not beer ;-) I have some cider in a carboy, and some sanitized bottles, and I want to bottle my cider, but I don't seem to have any lids. Dang.



> Look up lagering sometime it is a fairly long process compared to the current brewery practice.  Now the craft breweries are an entirely different kettle of fermentables.



I've made lager beer a few times. I guess whether that counts as aging is a matter of perspective. To me, the lagering is part of the fermentation process.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 14, 2012)

pyper said:
			
		

> SmokeyTheBear said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Actually the others are fruit beers and such.

Likewise even the distilled hard stuff is made from a beer even though it is sometimes called a wine.  

Germany doesn't rule the world.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 14, 2012)

I haven't asked some folks about today's commercial porters, but at one time I believe they used the stuff past its normal shelf life.

I do not plan on touching my hard cider for testing until March.    What was left of the batch after I filled all of my available bottles at the time was decent but there was no question it would get better.

Maybe next season I'll do a couple of batches.  I would love to do an apple jack but that is illegal so it is off the table.


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## timfromohio (Jan 14, 2012)

Smokey - how long does it normally take your cider to settle and clear once in secondary?  Do you find it varies from year to year?


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 14, 2012)

timfromohio said:
			
		

> smokey - did you go with semi-dwarf trees?  That's what we're looking at.
> 
> Last night my wife and I were watching a show on youtube called "River Cottage" - I think it's a BBC show, but people have uploaded the episodes in 15 minute clips onto youtube (as an aside, we have watched many excellent shows not available in this country via youtube including "Tales from the Green Valley", "Victorian Farm", and "Edwardian Farm" - all shows about people living as if there were on farms in various times throughout English/Welsh history - EXCELLENT SHOWS).  Anyway, this particular episode was River Cottage Winter and they showed a small commerical operation making and bottling perry  I thought it was really neat to see given the recent perry discussion here.  I encourage folks here to check it out.



Yes they are semi-dwarf.  I wouldn't have enough room to put them where I want them and have a decent garden otherwise.

I've planned for 2 or 3 of each kind of fruit tree.  The plan is for cherries, peaches, pears, and apples.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 14, 2012)

timfromohio said:
			
		

> Smokey - how long does it normally take your cider to settle and clear once in secondary?  Do you find it varies from year to year?



I just started doing hard cider this year, but most fruit based beverages will vary because of differences in the particular crop.  Couple that with the best ciders contain a mixture of apple varieties and it gets interesting.


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## timfromohio (Jan 14, 2012)

Smokey - thanks.  I'm only one season ahead of you.  I did a 5 gallon batch last year that seemed to settle a bit faster than the 3 gallon batch I have going currently.  Both are technically meads due to added honey - I used the same recipe in both.  Once this batch is finished I'm going to try a second 3 gallon batch without any added fermentables to see how it comes out.  

Good luck with your first batch!


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## Black Jaque Janaviac (Jan 20, 2012)

I guess it shouldn't surprise me that there's a lot of homebrewers on Hearth.  Once you've secured your self-sufficient heat source the very next thing to work on would be self-sufficient drink.

I'm not big into brewing every recipe I come across, rather I like a simple recipe and maybe make a few changes to it here and there.  Self-sufficiency and economics seems to be what has me interested.  My first batch was w/ DME thereafter I've been brewing all-grain. And now I've got some hops bines planted...


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## btuser (Jan 21, 2012)

When it comes to ecomomics, I can't say brewing beer seems any cheaper than buying beer.  I've fixed my mind on a setup and figure to have $200 invested by the time I'm done.  I know I could do it cheaper, but all those days in the chem labs makes me not want to mess with doing it a little at a time.  I know what I need so I'm just going to tell my local purveor to provide.  I've been trolling craigslist for weeks and can't even find a decent brew pot for less than he will sell one.  I tried the Mr. Beer kit although it was cute I won't do it again.  Too small and the spout on the barrel was almost useless.  Most beers I like are in the $8-$10 per six-pack range, so $200 for my first 2 cases and then $50-$60 afterwards (kits I'm leaning towards, haven't investigated raw individual ingredients.  Baby steps to get some confidence) doesn't really seem like I'd be saving money brewing my own beer.  

@ $9 for a rack of beer 2 cases is going to run me $72
$55 for a box full of ingredients that will get me 2 cases of beer leaves me making $.35 per beer when I drink my own.
So if I continue with the kits I will have to drink 571 beers to get my money back. 

Gee, when I put it that way I feel like I've got a worthwile goal.  Part of me says "All I have to do is drink beer to get paid?  I'm gonna be rich!" but can anyone say they're actually saving money by brewing their own beer?  I suppose I could up my intake to change my cost structure..........


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## stee6043 (Jan 21, 2012)

btuser said:
			
		

> When it comes to ecomomics, I can't say brewing beer seems any cheaper than buying beer.  I've fixed my mind on a setup and figure to have $200 invested by the time I'm done.  I know I could do it cheaper, but all those days in the chem labs makes me not want to mess with doing it a little at a time.  I know what I need so I'm just going to tell my local purveor to provide.  I've been trolling craigslist for weeks and can't even find a decent brew pot for less than he will sell one.  I tried the Mr. Beer kit although it was cute I won't do it again.  Too small and the spout on the barrel was almost useless.  Most beers I like are in the $8-$10 per six-pack range, so $200 for my first 2 cases and then $50-$60 afterwards (kits I'm leaning towards, haven't investigated raw individual ingredients.  Baby steps to get some confidence) doesn't really seem like I'd be saving money brewing my own beer.
> 
> @ $9 for a rack of beer 2 cases is going to run me $72
> $55 for a box full of ingredients that will get me 2 cases of beer leaves me making $.35 per beer when I drink my own.
> ...



  FWIW, $200 is on the very low end in my area for a nice brew setup.  I'm saving my nickles to someday get a Boilermaker brewpot.  That pot alone (10 gallon) almost doubles your budget.  

http://www.austinhomebrew.com/product_info.php?cPath=178_33_463&products_id=11290

  And if you want the best of the best you need this too:

http://www.austinhomebrew.com/product_info.php?cPath=178_53_146&products_id=1128

  And then you need to build your kegerator and start kegging because bottling is the pits for most homebrewers that brew regularly.


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## homebrewz (Jan 21, 2012)

I save money by brewing my own. I buy my grain wholesale from a distributor, and sometimes I get my hops from them too. I either buy the rest at the homebrew shop or I grow them. I use liquid yeast, but I get about 3 batches from each vial by pitching the dregs from the last batch into the new batch. So, for a 5 gallon batch of a basic beer like a pale ale, I'm brewing it for around $0.50/pint or about $10/case (including the propane used to run the burner). 

Granted, that's not including the equipment. I do need to occasionally buy things like hoses, fittings, o-rings for kegs, CO2, etc. I scrounged a lot of my pots and kettles. I have a couple of converted half-kegs which were cut and welded for a few bucks and some bottles of homebrew. Its harder to find scrap kegs now with the price of scrap metal, but they're still out there.


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## Agent (Jan 22, 2012)

Somewhere you have to balance cost effectiveness vs. cost of a hobby.
It can be really cheap if you have simple tastes too.
Here's my cost breakdown for a basic wheat beer:
10lbs Malt - $12.50
2 oz hops - $2 (I buy by the pound)
Yeast - $0.50 - I wash, reuse and divide to get about 4-8 batches per yeast pack.
Electricity - <$2 - I have a poor-mans brewpot - Turkey Fryer with two water heater elements I stuck in there.
Caps - $1.50
Water - $5.00 (Tap water makes my beers excessively bitter)
Total cost of $23.50 - And it tastes 10x better than the flavored water called beer by most.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 22, 2012)

You can get into the game with about $108 including your first batch of beer if you are not sure that this is for you.  True this will not be from raw ingredients or even mash and full boil brewing but it will get your feet wet.

The only thing I don't like about brewing is all of the bottle handling and I don't use glass bottles. 

As Agent says it is far better than the skunk piddle in a bottle.

About a lot of brew shops watch out for the mark up.   It is almost as though they buy retail and then apply their mark up.


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## btuser (Jan 22, 2012)

Good to hear that it gets cheaper as you get away from the kits.  I was told yesterday by an experienced home brewer (20yr old kit who's been brewing since he was 15!) that he can brew a  5 gallon batch for between $19-$22.  I'm going to go for a 10 gallon pot that will multi-task for lobster and maybe turkey frying.  Is that realistic?  I figure $150 for a lifetime multi-use unit is worth it.  Heavy gauge stainless 3-ply stainless.  Seems like everything under $300 has welded vs riveted handles.  Don't think I want a temp gauge but wouldn't mind the additional tapping.    

Am I better off buying a pot with a spigot already installed or drill my own?  False bottom?  Wort strainer looks like a good idea.  I've got a budget of $200 for a brew pot that will double as a big pot.  Yeah, that's how I will rationalize it.  Yeah.


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## timfromohio (Jan 22, 2012)

Keep an eye out on Craigs list for equipment - for $80 I got 3 glass carboys (one 5 gallon and two 6 gallons for wine), bottling bucket, primary bucket, bottle drying stand, brushes, siphon and assorted tubes, and an unopened packet of bottle caps.  I view the equipment as a sunk cost and when I compare the cost of a a kit from Northern Brewer, usually around $30 with liquid yeast, I am definetly saving money over purchasing from the store.

Incidentally, an Irish Draught went into primary yesterday .....


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## homebrewz (Jan 22, 2012)

btuser said:
			
		

> Good to hear that it gets cheaper as you get away from the kits.  I was told yesterday by an experienced home brewer (20yr old kit who's been brewing since he was 15!) that he can brew a  5 gallon batch for between $19-$22.  I'm going to go for a 10 gallon pot that will multi-task for lobster and maybe turkey frying.  Is that realistic?  I figure $150 for a lifetime multi-use unit is worth it.  Heavy gauge stainless 3-ply stainless.  Seems like everything under $300 has welded vs riveted handles.  Don't think I want a temp gauge but wouldn't mind the additional tapping.



I'd be leery about having a multi-tasking pot. I've long been of the belief that its better to have a dedicated brew-pot. You might be risking off-flavors in your finished product. 
A lot of folks scrounge old 1/4 and 1/2 kegs. They're stainless, frequently come with handles, and it used to be that you could find someone with an old keg in the back of the garage that no one returned after the party. These days, with keg registration laws and scrap metal prices, if you can find one I'd offer them a few bucks for it. I've also seen some on craigslist. I have two 1/2 kegs which I use for lautering and boiling. After we VENTED each keg with a tap (very important!) I traded someone some homebrew to drill a hole in the top and cut the top off with a sawz-all (can't use a torch.. makes splatter). You can find someone who welds stainless to attach any fittings you may want.


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## Black Jaque Janaviac (Jan 22, 2012)

> . . .leaves me making $.35 per beer when I drink my own.



I tried explaining to my wife that the more homebrew I drank the more money we'd save but she just didn't buy it.  Women can be so irrational!

No you don't brew cheaper beer by using malt extracts.  You DO brew beer cheaper by steeping the malted grains.   And a Victoria grain mill will pay for itself reasonably quick if you buy that malted grain in bulk.  

My brewing set-up is partly inhereted from my Pa, part garage sale items, part things laying around, and just a few items purchased specifically for brewing.  I like the fact that I inhereted the carboy 'cuz I can claim my brewing is "tradition".

If I don't calculate the cost of equipment I figured out that I can brew beer for as cheap as the cheap-o beer on the grocery store shelves - except the beer I'm brewing is as good as the high-dollar Gucci beer.  

I only brewed one malt extract batch and then learned how I could get into all-grain merely by purchasing a braided stainless steel hose, some hose clamps, and a couple feet of tubing (under $20).  I had a 48 qt cooler on hand already.  So I made the mash lauter tun with that and the braided SS.  

Another thing you can do to reduce costs that is fairly simple is to save the yeast from batch to batch.  So a $4 packet of yeast can be stretched through 3 or 4 batches of beer.

Oh, and I do not save money by drinking beer at all.  I DO drink top quality beer on a shoe-string budget, and I can afford to share with guests.


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## btuser (Jan 22, 2012)

I'm going to go with a stainless pot sans fittings.  I will add fittings later if needed/wanted.


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## JDC1 (Jan 22, 2012)

Its pretty cool that the people who like good craft beer get excited about homebrew.  My friends that drink light BMC beer do not want to even try it.  They have some assumption that beer made in a factory is better.  Drinking homebrew next to a busch light is similar to eating a homemade/small bakery cake vs. something you would buy at Walmart.  They are both edible but there is a definite taste difference.


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## stee6043 (Jan 22, 2012)

Kind of like heating with wood.....if you  paid yourself minimum wage for the time you spend brewing it probably never saves money.  ha.


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## Black Jaque Janaviac (Jan 22, 2012)

> Kind of like heating with woodâ€¦..if you paid yourself minimum wage for the time you spend brewing it probably never saves money.  ha.



I've never bought into the logic of calculating my time in on a hobby's expense.  If that were the case I would never leave the office because I make the most money per hour there than I do anywhere else.  But I can't have my children around at the office.  They do however go along to cut wood and often pester me with questions as I brew.


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## pyper (Jan 25, 2012)

btuser said:
			
		

> When it comes to ecomomics, I can't say brewing beer seems any cheaper than buying beer.  I've fixed my mind on a setup and figure to have $200 invested by the time I'm done.



Actually, you'll have spent $200 by the time you've started. When it comes to homebrewing, most people are never really "done." Maybe you're different, but for most people there's always at least one more thing to get ;-)

As far as a multi-pot, I don't think I would. Too easy to get something into your beer that you don't want there. If you get serious into homebrewing, you'll need more than one pot anyway. I used to use three -- one to heat water, one to mash, and one to boil, and I'd have all three going at once. But there I go with the "at least one more thing" bit.

It's a lot of fun though. If you can get into it for a price you can afford, definitely give it a go.


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## Morgan (Jan 25, 2012)

Wait till you go from brewing and bottling to brewing and kegging, that is expensive to get into, but SO much better than bottling, I currently have 4 kegs in a converted deep freezer to beer fridge with just picnic taps (to cheap to go with nice counter mounted stainless taps) I just lift the lid and pour a glass.  I don't do my own boils though, I stick with the brewhouse kits, they make a very drinkable beer, and are very easy and quick to put together, leaving me more time for my other alcohol making hobby, which costs even more, 3" copper is expensive, but the product is just so darn tasty and clean, unfortunately in most parts unless your lucky enough to live in NZ its illegal


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## Highbeam (Jan 26, 2012)

Using a turkey fryer kit and all glass carboys I am at about 100$ in equipment to do malt extract or partial mash batches. I haven't done all-grain but I'm sure the cost in equipment isn't too much higher. I think you guys are either buying specialty equipment at a very expensive outlet or are buying too much of the wrong and maybe unnecessary stuff.

My local homebrew shop seems to have a small profit margin. LME comes from a big ol' barrel in the back, grain from bulk containers, and he mills it for you as he makes up your order. My batches cost from 20-40$ depending on the hop load. That gets me 5 gallons and the cost per beer is less than the cheap canned stuff at the store. Don't include equipment or labor cost with something like this. 

Life is too short to drink only the canned junk. I will admit that the canned stuff is more suitable for certain activities or for when you aren't tasting anything anyways. Don't want to waste the good stuff.


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## Black Jaque Janaviac (Jan 26, 2012)

> Using a turkey fryer kit and all glass carboys I am at about 100$ in equipment to do malt extract or partial mash batches.



Highbeam, do you fry turkeys at all?  If you do then it might not be fair to count the cost of the turkey frier against the home brewing expenses.

So much of what I use has other uses or came into the house for other purposes and then got reassigned to homebrew duty.


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## Highbeam (Jan 26, 2012)

I've never fried a turkey in it. I did use it for a big corn boil once. Also to blanch green beans before freezing. Anytime I need to make a lot of hot water, it is there for use.

My first few batches were boiled in a borrowed turkey fryer that my motherinlaw used to store cat food. I had to put in some serious elbow grease to remove the layer of fat/oil that is present on pet food and had coated the pot. 

Oh yeah, I once used the fryer to scald 26 dead chickens before plucking them. So that was about the nastiest thing I've ever done in a turkey fryer but it worked great!


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## jeff_t (Jan 26, 2012)

Highbeam said:
			
		

> Using a turkey fryer kit and all glass carboys I am at about 100$ in equipment to do malt extract or partial mash batches. I haven't done all-grain but I'm sure the cost in equipment isn't too much higher. I think you guys are either buying specialty equipment at a very expensive outlet or are buying too much of the wrong and maybe unnecessary stuff.



My biggest single expense when I went all grain was a mill. The 10gal Igloo I used for a mash tun came from a garage sale for $10, 10 gal Rubbermaid for a hot liquor tank was given to me, two Sanke kegs came from the scrap bin at the beer distributor where a friend worked, the turkey fryer was a gift, my bench capper was really old and given to me as well, and I made my own wort chiller. The only things I paid full retail for were the mill, two carboys, a Better Bottle and various valves and fittings. The mill was a good investment, as my efficiencies went from the upper sixties to the mid eighties, just due to the better crush vs the LHBS. All together, I had a little over $200 in equipment, and was able to brew 12-13 gallon batches for $30-40, depending on hops, yeast, and OG.


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## btuser (May 24, 2012)

Digging up an old thread:

4 months later and I've got 7 beers on my belt (I say on my belt because I've gained 10 lbs.  Hopefully I get bored of this!)

I added it up and by hustling a few parts here and there I was able to save some money(bottles, a wort chiller, couple fermenters)  All in all I spent about $600 to get from a free Mr. Beer kit to doing BIAB all-grain batches. 

1 SS 10 gallon pot with added dip tube, valve and cam fittings $150
Outdoor burner $60
Bottle washer and drying tree (makes bottling less of a chore) $40
SS wort chiller +hose fittings $40
Original TrueBrew kit $150
160 bomber bottles from a guy who quit drinking (hope they're not cursed!) $50
Extra fermenting buckets $20
Extra hoses, hydrometer (broke) clamps, brew bag, hops bag, digital scale, and stuff $100

All added over the last 4 months or so.  Not too expensive a hobby and it doesn’t take up more than 1/2 a closet.  I'm saving money at this point, probably 10 bucks a week.  I'm going to stick with the 1 pot 1 vessel plan.  Maybe a 5g cooler to hold strike water but I'm not going any larger than 5 gallon batches because I couldn't drink it fast enough by myself.  So far black IPA, blonde, Irish red, witbeer, espresso imperial Russian stout, and a mint chocolate stout two weeks in the primary right now.  This weekend I'm going to brew a milder pale ale.   

On brew nights, I literally RUSH home to start around 6pm, and usually finish cleaning up around 11pm, but have been banging around later than 1am when things don't go right.  I'm excited.  I love the process as much as drinking the beer.  Ok, that's a lie, but they go together like peas+carrots(and butter and salt).  My favorite beer so far was a Hoegarden clone that came out spot on (or close enough to recognize.  It's already losing some of it's spice).  It makes you appreciate what the commercial brewers can do as far as making a beer the same every time.  I'm looking for a cheap recirculation pump ($20) to keep the mash from stratifying and messing with the consistency.  Best thing is I'm getting patient with the fermenters, letting the yeasty beasties do their thing.  I've learned how to wash the yeast and can brew a  5 gallon, 5.5% abv blonde for about $16 now that I'm off the extract.  The peaches are doing great this year.  I'm hoping to do a peach lambric-style with some rainwater and some local honey.

Advice to other people with nothing better to do on a Friday night than to getting sticky and making a mess:  Starting out small is doable but it's good advice to plan ahead.  You will eventually go to all grain brewing.


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## SmokeyTheBear (May 24, 2012)

Good for you btuser, it will either keep you out of trouble or in trouble.  Take your time and do it right, you'll have some good brews to enjoy.  I plan on doing a couple of large batches of hard apple cider this fall.


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## JDC1 (May 26, 2012)

I noticed a big difference in the taste of my homebrew when I switched to all grain.


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