# Metal Liner to open masonry firebox



## jonszcz (May 11, 2010)

My wife and I purchased our 1940s home a few years ago, and I have a question about installing a liner into an open masonry fireplace. As it currently stands, there is no liner in the chimney, and no insert in the firebox with a cast iron damper at the bottom. The whole conversation of the fireplace started when we realized that we would have puddles of water on the floor of the firebox in extreme rain situations. When I went to the roof to investigate, I noticed that there is no raincap, and no liner to attach a raincap against. So rain was coming down the chimney, and ultimately rusted out a small hole in the damper. It looks as though there may have been a clay liner in there at some point.

So, now I'm at a position where I'd like to put a liner in the chimney so I can put a rain cap on it and also keep the fireplace usable as we'd like to have a fire in the winter. We don't, however, want to purchase an insert or stove. The house is just too small (820 sf) to take up that much visual space in our living room. We also don't have gas available to the house, so gas logs and the like are out also. What do we do then? Am I in a position where the only option is to reinstall a clay tile liner and live with the inefficiency of it's sizing, or is there a way that I can install a block off plate with the appropriate sized metal flue liner attached to it? Is the metal liner even an option in an open masonry fireplace?

I've had a few guys come an give me quotes on getting the fireplace "usable" again, but they are all over the place since I can't really give them any indication of what we are looking for. Any help or opinions are appreciate. Thanks so much.


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## Yagminas Masonry and Wood-heat (May 12, 2010)

I've done a few like this. It involves installing a custom fitted collector box in the throat above the damper and attaching whatever lining system to the collector. Prices start from $2000, labor and material.


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## summit (May 12, 2010)

Yagminas Masonry and Wood-heat said:
			
		

> I've done a few like this. It involves installing a custom fitted collector box in the throat above the damper and attaching whatever lining system to the collector. Prices start from $2000, labor and material.



I agree w/ tht. The other option is a poured flue and a ss cap, which will be equally expensive. An small insert installed could be had for not much more, and provide better return for your $.


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## Clarkbar2311 (May 12, 2010)

I know you said no insert or stove but seriously think about a small insert like http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200325829_200325829
as it doesn't project much into the room. The fact is that open fireplaces don't do much as far as heating efficiently. You are obviously looking to invest hard earned money in "making it usuable" why not make it actually practical as well??? Just my thoughts.


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## jonszcz (May 12, 2010)

Thanks for the responses everyone, much appreciated. I'm going to have to talk to the lady about this one. We were hoping to get away with something cheaper than $2000, but it seems like that is going to be the starting point regardless of whether we go with an insert and flue or custom collector box and flue. At the end of the day, we just don't want water in the firebox. 

Thanks again.


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## Krisrob (May 19, 2010)

A liner would have to be sized according the the fireplace opening. A squared or rectangular heavy wall liner would need to be dropped down or winched up, the liner would also need to be insulated. Needless to say the materials and labor involved would add up. When its all said and done you have a functioning fireplace that will look good, but your losing a lot of heat. I usually recommend looking into inserts in these situations.


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## RonB (May 19, 2010)

Sounds like a poured in place liner would do the job for you.  They knock out remaining clay tiles and pour an insulated type of motor/concrete that actually would strengthen the chimney.  They attach a stub of a clay tile on top of the chimney exit so that you can attach a rain cap.  This solution would allow you to burn your chimney and if/when you ever decided to install a wood stove or insert your chimney would be code compliant and ready to go.  I've attached a pic of my cap.


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## Fsappo (May 19, 2010)

You need to have the liner sized according to the height of the chimney and the square footage of the fireplace opening when lining an open fireplace.  Dont let a sweep just drop a 6" round liner down there.  Check the size of the liner they are proposing and ask them to prove the math to you.  There are charts available online for this formula.  To me, $2k sounds cheap to have it done properly.  Most we get involved with are in the $3-4000 range.  A small wood insert can be had installed for around the $2k range if you find one that you and the wife both agree on.  You wil be gaining heat and efficiency but loosing viewing area and ambiance.  The other + to an insert is that most of them qualify for a 30% federal tax credit which would put $600-$800 back in your pocket come tax time next year, providing you did not already use this credit on other energy improvements that are covered under the same pool of federal funding.


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## stovelark (May 20, 2010)

Lots of good info being put out.  One thing to remember, a chimney with no clay liner (just bricks or stone) does not meet class A chimney requirements for running a solid fuel appliance (wood stove or insert).  Even with a SS liner dropped down said chimney, UNLESS your local building inspector okays that install.  (He prob will not.  Some will ok it with a wrapped liner, but they really should not.  We argue this situation constantly with chimney installers and fellow stove sales people.)  Its the clay liner that qualifies the chimney as class A, able to withstand 2100 deg for a minimum of 10 mins without failing.  Solid packed class A pipe is a better way to install in that chimney if possible.  SS liners are put (6") down existing clay liners to downsize the flues for proper sizing for draft.  Now a wood burning fireplace is different.  A brick chimney minus clay liner is seen a lot in New Eng with old homes, because of the air movement velocity going up the chimney is much faster, and the temp is much lower obviously, most inspectors will say they are safe.  I would not use a fireplace without a clay liner, period.   I cringe everytime this subject comes up, chimneys need clay liners to be class A, even with SS liners.  I always suggest the homeowner check with their local building inspector, after all, he does have final say.  Be safe.

      Stovelark
      Enviro 1700 FS wood 
      Enviro EF3 pellet      
      Can you tell I like ENVIRO??


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