# Vogelzang Ponderosa



## Huntindog1 (Oct 21, 2012)

I thought I would post about the new Vogelzang Ponderosa, since I have a Vogelzang Performer.

I really like my Performer Wood Stove. For the price its a heck of a deal. I got it onsale last fall at Menards. I have looked at other stoves on displays and my stove is very well built.

So anyways the New Designed Ponderosa is rated at a 87% Efficiency as tested by Omni Test Labs.

That is dang high for a non-cat stove.

The Ponderosa has a second control lever you dont see on other non-cat tube type stoves. Its called the High Burn Control but I dont know what its actually doing.

The firebox is 18.5" x 26" and the stove has 6 burn tubes in it, maybe the extra tubes make it extra efficient. Plus maybe since it has so many tubes that may point to the extra control lever as being some type of secondary air control.

But I thought I would shed some light on this stove as the 87% efficiency rating is one of the highest I have seen in a non-cat stove. Even higher than the hybrids. I am sure Omni test labs use the same test protocol as on other stoves.

I will post this pic as what is the thing sticking up at the bottom of the door frame inside , that looks to be something different as maybe in air flow or something.

_*EDIT: FOUND OUT TODAY THE STOVE IS RATED 81% EFFICIENCY NOT 87% STILL HIGH NUMBER FOR NON-CAT STOVE*_


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## EatenByLimestone (Oct 21, 2012)

It's probably a doghouse similar to what the 30 has.  It spits a shot of air directly into the wood that you are burning.  

Matt


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## corey21 (Oct 21, 2012)

Huntindog1 said:


> I thought I would post about the new Vogelzang Ponderosa, since I have a Vogelzang Performer.
> 
> I really like my Performer Wood Stove. For the price its a heck of a deal. I got it onsale last fall at Menards. I have looked at other stoves on displays and my stove is very well built.
> 
> ...


Nice.

That thing in the front is maybe doghouse air.


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## Huntindog1 (Oct 21, 2012)

Well my Performer has the doghouse air but not like that but my stove is only rated 76% efficient.

One more thing to make note of is that the extra mixing of the air by the 6 burn tubes may point to the extra efficiency as alot of stoves this size only has 4 tubes. 

My smaller Performer at 2.12 cu ft fire box has 4 tubes in it, alot for its smaller size.


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## corey21 (Oct 21, 2012)

Huntindog1 said:


> Well my Performer has the doghouse air but not like that but my stove is only rated 76% efficient.


 

I agree that the six burn tubes probably make it more efficient looks like great unit.


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## EatenByLimestone (Oct 21, 2012)

For a long time all I'd see was something like 63% efficient, yet grams of particulates per hour kept coming down.   I don't know if I'd take that number literally, it seems if the particulates were burnt the stove was burning more efficiently.   

Matt


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## Jclout (Oct 21, 2012)

Holy smokes Batman 6 tubes???  Nice     Quad 3100 - only 4


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## begreen (Oct 22, 2012)

EatenByLimestone said:


> It's probably a doghouse similar to what the 30 has. It spits a shot of air directly into the wood that you are burning.
> 
> Matt


 
I think doghouse air is what the extra control is for by the manual's description. The secondaries don't appear to be controlled, but I could be wrong. Look on the underside of the stove and see what ports the the air controls are valving.


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## Woody Stover (Oct 22, 2012)

Huntindog1 said:


> The Ponderosa has a second control lever you dont see on other non-cat tube type stoves. Its called the High Burn Control but I dont know what its actually doing.
> 
> The firebox is 18.5" x 26" and the stove has 6 burn tubes in it, maybe the extra tubes make it extra efficient. Plus maybe since it has so many tubes that may point to the extra control lever as being some type of secondary air control.


Unfortunately, they don't have a link to the manual on their website yet.
I don't see any holes on the rear tubes; Are they pointing toward the back of the box? There also looks to be some type of channel across the top back with larger holes in it...maybe that's injecting air from the back. The Buck 91 that I picked up has an air control that injects air about half way back in the box...


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## BrotherBart (Oct 22, 2012)

Here is the manual.

http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pdfImages/40/4040f21f-cb75-46ee-9958-e9f0df0188e7.pdf

10. The high burn control lever (B) is used to deliver
additional air to an established fire when the primary
control is set at 3⁄4 to fully open (all the way
in) position. Push the secondary (right) control in
to open/high burn position. When adjusting the
primary air to a lower setting, close (pull out) the
high burn (right, “B” lever) by pulling control fully
out.


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## Huntindog1 (Oct 22, 2012)

EatenByLimestone said:


> For a long time all I'd see was something like 63% efficient, yet grams of particulates per hour kept coming down. I don't know if I'd take that number literally, it seems if the particulates were burnt the stove was burning more efficiently.
> 
> Matt


 
The EPA listings only list 63% as thats the requirement to pass EPA for non-cat stoves. I dont know why the EPA never listed the actual test results.

You will notice 72% is listed for all the Cat Stoves.


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## Huntindog1 (Oct 22, 2012)

I didnt notice but your right there is a channel in the back with holes.

Also there is no Ceramic Blanket on the baffle boards like on my Performer.


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## Huntindog1 (Oct 22, 2012)

Diyrye just installed one of these, maybe he can give us some details of how this stove's air control looks to be working.

I am sure this is over rated but its listed for a 14 hour burn time. My Performer is listed at 12 hours and I got 10 hours maybe a couple times last year with a really good load of wood. Most times I easily get 8 to 9 hours as in a nice hot bed of coals to restart on. For example if I check my stove 9 hours later I have to have a decent amount of coals and they have to be good and hot for me to to be able to restart another load on to count a a 9 hour burn.


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## BrotherBart (Oct 22, 2012)

The manual shows a ceramic blanket.


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## corey21 (Oct 22, 2012)

BrotherBart said:


> The manual shows a ceramic blanket.


 
I saw that also.


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## EatenByLimestone (Oct 22, 2012)

begreen said:


> I think doghouse air is what the extra control is for by the manual's description. The secondaries don't appear to be controlled, but I could be wrong. Look on the underside of the stove and see what ports the the air controls are valving.


 
All stoves should come with an extra lever or two.   They don't even have to be connected to anything.  That way you cold walk by and fiddle with something without screwing something up.  I could sit in front of the fire and move a slide or twist something acting all busy...  It would be great!  Even better if the levers were plated in brass or something so they looked important. 

Matt


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## Huntindog1 (Oct 22, 2012)

EatenByLimestone said:


> All stoves should come with an extra lever or two. They don't even have to be connected to anything. That way you cold walk by and fiddle with something without screwing something up. I could sit in front of the fire and move a slide or twist something acting all busy... It would be great! Even better if the levers were plated in brass or something so they looked important.
> 
> Matt


 
LMAO !

Thats me but I really have to believe there is some theory on how it works to get me to buy in on it.


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## n3pro (Oct 24, 2012)

Thanks for the review.  It's nice to hear about some of their good better quality products.  Too often Voglezang is only known for their not so quality products.    I'll be interested to hear your impression using it.


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## Huntindog1 (Oct 24, 2012)

Hearth.com member Diyrye just put one of the Vogelzangs Ponderosa in maybe he will chime in. I am keeping my Vogelzang Performer a while as I just got it last fall.


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## diyrye (Oct 24, 2012)

Hey I just came across this thread and I just got my install done this morning. I did do a few burns already before I had my liner top trimmed and cap on and block off plate in.  The stove definetally has the ceramic blanket on top of the baffle boards. 

As for the secondary air control that's a good question, I have only had a few fires to burn some of the paint off a little at a time but havent gone much over 350 on the flue temp yet. Plus its too dang hot out still even with my doors wide open it hit 80 pretty quick in the basement. 

I can't wait for it to get colder so I can really test it out. It seems with good draft, that the secondary air control might not even really be needed? Only on startup maybe it's necessary? I did end up installing with an elbow right on the top of the stove which I was trying to avoid but couldn't. The stove so far works great with no draft issues.  

 Once it hit about 300 degrees and the secondaries took off the smoke completey stopped coming out of the chimney. No whisps of smoke at all. It's kind of nice in a survival situation noone would ever know you were hiding out inside keeping warm other than smelling the smoke. With only about three small logs the whole top of the firebox was full of flames.

Here are a couple pics. 

http://s106.photobucket.com/albums/...795-00000495139DDC99.jpg&evt=user_media_share

http://s106.photobucket.com/albums/...908-0000019BA59AD944.jpg&evt=user_media_share

Those were taken before I had my liner straightened out and block off plate in. I still have to put the trim pieces around the bottom of the pedestal and maybe add a few plate steel shims underneath, one disadvantage of the solid stone hearth.


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## DAN66 (Oct 24, 2012)

Diyrye those flames look great. The stove looks nice with the wall behind it.I bet it will put off some nice heat too.


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## diyrye (Oct 25, 2012)

I forgot to say I got it at northline express for $997 free shipping but I see now they went up to $1199. I think they price match though and northern tools has then still for $999 plus shipping. Home depot started carrying them for $1299.  I hooked it to a rockford stainless steel double wall smooth bore insulated liner 25' long for 639$ on eBay with free shipping.


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## Huntindog1 (Oct 25, 2012)

Be carefull calling it a secondary air control as we dont know what its doing yet. It maybe be a just an additional primary air control as in most of these stoves secondary air going to the burn tubes up top is uncontrollable. But secondary air is kind of controllable with primary as when you close the primary air control this causes more suction by the flues draft to pull in more air thru the secondary air tubes. I also think having a manual flue damper helps controls the draft thus helps control how much air is being drawn into the stove.

That setting in your basement will all that stone fireplace in the back, its almost the whole wall back there looks like, it will absorb the extra heat from that stove as that stove is a pretty big one , 26" deep North/South, will be putting out alot of heat. That wall will act like a storage device for you.

Nice setup, I would like to trade my Vogelzang Performer in for the bigger Vogelzang Ponderosa just to learn how it works but I know that stove is too big for me.Especially since I put a new wall up in my basement..


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## Huntindog1 (Oct 25, 2012)

Found out today that the stove is actually  rated at 81% efficiency still pretty good for a non-cat stove.


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## begreen (Oct 25, 2012)

Huntindog1 said:


> Be carefull calling it a secondary air control as we dont know what its doing yet. It maybe be a just an additional primary air control as in most of these stoves secondary air going to the burn tubes up top is uncontrollable.


 
Agreed. As far as I can tell that controls primary air to the boost manifold. It would be great to have this confirmed. Maybe you can check using a punk or incense stick down near the primary intake? Close off the primary air, but open up the boost air and see if you get smoke coming out of the bottom, front center of the firebox.


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## diyrye (Oct 25, 2012)

I just got a chance to check out the "boost"/"b" control. It opens an intake underneath the stove in the very back of the stove as seen in the first picture.

http://s106.photobucket.com/albums/...163-0000000C6F3C3D02.jpg&evt=user_media_share

 Picture two shows it then travels up a passage on the outside of the stove, welded to it, between the stove and the heat shield. Then at approx secondary burn tube height it goes into an opening in the back of the stove into a channel full of holes that runs parrallel to the secondary burn tubes. 

http://s106.photobucket.com/albums/...163-0000000C7B7821AE.jpg&evt=user_media_share

Picture 3 shows right below the back tube a black piece running across full of holes. I also noticed the back/6th secondary burner didn't seem to have any holes in it?  

http://s106.photobucket.com/albums/...163-0000000C89A7C795.jpg&evt=user_media_share

That being said, what would be the best function for the "boost" control. Seems like it would provide extra air the secondaries. It says to always close it and adjust the primary and then to readjust the boost after? 

I'm just curious, does anyone else have a ponderosa? It seems like I'm the first one, also the prices have jumped up on them and they just now showed up at home depot.


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## clemsonfor (Oct 25, 2012)

Northern tool ships to stores for free if you have one within an hour or so of you, just throwing that out.

I just bought a highlander(waiting on it to arrive).


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## Pallet Pete (Oct 25, 2012)

I am glad to see that there stoves are getting better ! That is a massive improvement over our old Durango piece of crap. It's about time they made a safer stove. Looks good ! 

Pete

In case you can't tell I am in shock lol.


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## Huntindog1 (Oct 25, 2012)

Here is an answer I got from Vogelzang today:

_The high burn control is basically an assist to deliver the proper amount of air at high burn. Your stove (The Performer) does not need the assist as it has a smaller firebox._

_The Ponderosa is designed with the option to hook up to outside air. For that reason all of the air intakes are ducted to the pedestal base. The box you see under the front door of the stove is part of the air intake system._


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## Huntindog1 (Oct 25, 2012)

I have never seen holes drilled like the 5th tube back.

Looks like the high burn air may come in from that channel in the back with all the holes drilled.


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## diyrye (Oct 25, 2012)

Huntindog: That's way easier seeing the pic without clicking a link.. I have yet to be able to do that on my iPhone. Instead I have to send the pic to photobucket and attach a link. But yeah the high burner air comes through the holes in that channel in the back. I checked with insence like begreen suggested.


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## Huntindog1 (Oct 25, 2012)

I did a copy paste as long as the pic file size isnt to big then you have to upload it.


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## corey21 (Oct 25, 2012)

This is nice looking stove that is for sure.


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## diyrye (Oct 26, 2012)

So I got the stove burning hotter today jut to get the rest of the paint and everything to quit smoking. It's 80 degrees in the basement with the outside door open. But now at least it will be ready for the 30 degree temps they are calling for next week with the remains of the hurricane coming. If the power goes out, we have no worries. Well heat wise.. The freezer might be a different story...

I'm just guessing it's normal for the secondary burn tubes to glow red? Flue temp is only around 325 right now but it's kicking heat. Now to try and get it circulating a bit.


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## begreen (Oct 26, 2012)

Pallet Pete said:


> I am glad to see that there stoves are getting better ! That is a massive improvement over our old Durango piece of crap. It's about time they made a safer stove. Looks good !


 
Likewise. We won't know for a few seasons how they stand up, but I hope they have a winner.


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## precaud (Oct 26, 2012)

Huntindog1 said:


> Looks like the high burn air may come in from that channel in the back with all the holes drilled.


 
It may look like that, but in fact, the closer the holes are to the draft source, the more air will be drawn out of them. So the most air will come out of the front burn tubes unless you have a leak in the baffle.

My Quad 2100M has an almost identical secondary setup, and very little air comes out of the holes at the very back. In fact, sometimes smoke is actually pulled INTO them and they clog up fairly quickly.


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## Todd (Oct 28, 2012)

Huntindog1 said:


> Here is an answer I got from Vogelzang today:
> 
> _The high burn control is basically an assist to deliver the proper amount of air at high burn. Your stove (The Performer) does not need the assist as it has a smaller firebox._
> 
> _The Ponderosa is designed with the option to hook up to outside air. For that reason all of the air intakes are ducted to the pedestal base. The box you see under the front door of the stove is part of the air intake system._


 
Sounds like PE's EBT. Give it a little boost air at higher burn rates to keep it clean. That's one of the problems with larger non cat fire boxes, they need more air to keep the fire burning clean to pass the EPA test.


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## diyrye (Oct 28, 2012)

We are ready for the hurricane. Well at least duke is. Only took a day for him to find the heat ha. So far the stove is working great, I put in two 8-10" rounds 20"+ long of English walnut, its 88 downstairs and 75 upstairs with the stove only at 325. But it's only 50 outside. Just getting things rolling before the storm. I got a truckload of wood piled outside the door 10' from stove covered with a tarp, 40 gallons of drinking water, and a fresh half pig to cook on the stove If the power goes out and it thaws! Oh and plenty of beer to last the storm.. Bring it on!

http://s106.photobucket.com/albums/...787-0000013E35762E7F.jpg&evt=user_media_share


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## DexterDay (Oct 28, 2012)

Huntindog1 said:


> I have never seen holes drilled like the 5th tube back.
> 
> Looks like the high burn air may come in from that channel in the back with all the holes drilled.


 
The 5th tube is still connected to the same manifold system. If I had to guess, the Very Back portion (not even a tube) is where the Boost air comes from. It appears like it could be separated from the regular secondary system.

Looks to be a solid unit that should perform well and give the operator some decent adjustment


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## liplifter (Dec 28, 2012)

I have a ponderosa installed 2 weeks ago and the top already has a heat sink in it.Really disappointed.Where do they get the advertised 14 hr burn times ?packed to the gills with osage or ash no longer than 6 and thats on "slow burn".no reply from mfg. yet


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## begreen (Dec 28, 2012)

Welcome. What do you mean by "heat sink"? Do you have the boost air completely shut off?


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## diyrye (Dec 28, 2012)

I'm guessing you mean the top sunk down in? I find with mine if I pack it with wood and even have the air controls both shut it can still overheat rather quickly if you don't keep the blower on. It doesn't seem as air tight as it should be. I'm concerned if I really have it cranking and power goes out I think the stove would be orange in a minute or two without the blower.  Mine will keep coals for 12+ hrs especially if I shovel ash onto the top of them if I want to just fire it back up later and house is already warm enough.


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## liplifter (Dec 28, 2012)

I dont think it's possible to overheat mine but yes the top is warped and i guess heat sink is the wrong term.I cant get the thrmo on the pipe over 350 and its low on the pipe.I would have to leave the door cracked to get it 400 or higher.


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## diyrye (Dec 28, 2012)

Are you sure your thermometer Is good? Mine I have about 12" from top of stove and even with everything all closed and blower on I can hit 400 no prob, with both vents open and blower on it would probably bury the needle in the redzone. To overheat and warp the stove usually has to be glowing


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## begreen (Dec 28, 2012)

Does sound like a faulty thermometer might be involved here. Have you checked your baffle boards to be sure they are properly in place, also checking the insulation blanket?


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## joecool85 (Dec 28, 2012)

Huntindog1 said:


> I have never seen holes drilled like the 5th tube back.
> 
> Looks like the high burn air may come in from that channel in the back with all the holes drilled.


 
Is it me or are there no holes in that rear tube>?


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## liplifter (Dec 28, 2012)

good thermos have 3 stoves betwen house ,shop and cabin.burns better if I constantly clean out front vent just inside door frame but it defineatly won't "run you out".


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## diyrye (Dec 28, 2012)

It's 35 degrees here right now, I'm heating 2500 sqft, including my uninsulated garage, and the house is between 66 and 71 degrees with little to no effort being put into the stove. Here is a picture taken just now with all these conditions, it's just glowing coals all day probably 10-12 pieces total put in all day.

http://s106.photobucket.com/albums/...610-0000010A625D93F2.jpg&evt=user_media_share


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## DexterDay (Dec 28, 2012)

liplifter said:


> good thermos have 3 stoves betwen house ,shop and cabin.burns better if I constantly clean out front vent just inside door frame but it defineatly won't "run you out".



When was your wood Cut/Split/ and Stacked? 

Getting above 350 on the Pipe is pretty hot? No? Thats 700° flue temp? 

350 on the stove top and I would be worried. But 350° stove pipe temp? 

But... you should still be able to get it above 400° without opening the door. 

The 14 hr burn times are an exaggerated time. Thats a "usable heat" under best case scenarios (coals is a very long portion of the burn cycle) a 14 hr flame would be near impossible. Unless you have the Alien technology that is BKK  


So your 6 hrs is pretty standard burn time. Should and could be longer, but air setting, and proper fuel play a big part.


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## diyrye (Dec 28, 2012)

Is this with or without the blower on? When I fire mine up or while fairly cool with just coals, I turn the blower off because it allows more heat to be retained in the stove to get it going, but you must remember to turn it back on ASAP because it will overheat. I went out to feed chickens once after a morning reload and I shut the blower off an opened the primary air intake (left knob in) and came back in to the stove top glowing and pipe temp around 700 in just a few minutes. I shut everything down and put a highspeed fan blowing on stove to cool it and climbed to the roof to check chimney liner, meanwhile the thin whisps of burnt creosote were comin out of the chimney. So I burnt the liner clean after a months use... Oops and the stove top did droop about 1/8" in middle. This was the first time I loaded the stove with a fresh batch of super dry oak, I should have known not to walk away... Luckily I didn't have my cast iron chicken humidifier on it at the time or things woulda been more ugly! 

Once the stove is loaded and going well I always close the intake. Both of them or you must sit and watch that it doesn't overheat.  I never use the secondary. I would have the top glowing I think if I ever had it open very long.

I just turned the blower off and in 23 seconds the pipe temp went up 50 degrees from simmering at 250 to 300. This stove won't put out the heat without the blower before it turns into a pile of molten steel on your floor I guess is what I'm trying to say. And if you put a trivet and or kettle ontop for humidity, I would put it back towards the stovepipe  where the raised lip is that will provide more support just in case. 



I NEVER EVER leave the house without both air controls completely shut (both handles pulled out)


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## diyrye (Dec 28, 2012)

Here is a pic with a fresh reload of the stove, both handles completely closed. And its at 300 pipe temp already with blower at max

http://s106.photobucket.com/albums/...610-00000119AD470934.jpg&evt=user_media_share

Do you have good draft at this stoves location? I NEVER have smoke spillage unless I'm blowing on some pieces in the morning that I just threw on some old coals left over from previous night.


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## Huntindog1 (Dec 31, 2012)

liplifter said:


> I dont think it's possible to overheat mine but yes the top is warped and i guess heat sink is the wrong term.I cant get the thrmo on the pipe over 350 and its low on the pipe.I would have to leave the door cracked to get it 400 or higher.


 
Lip Lifter,

Can you post a picture of the top, thats pretty amazing that you warped a "step" top type of stove. 3/16" inch steel top that has the step bend would take some high heat to warp.

I have had my stove that has the same step top up to around 1000 deg F  glowing slightly and no warpage.

I think everyone will be wanting to see that pic.


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## liplifter (Jan 2, 2013)

I would if it was easier and it woulnt take that high of heat depending on how it was tacked and welded together. it could have been from factory and never noticed.psoting is too out of my range not joining photo bucked to do that


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## Huntindog1 (Jan 2, 2013)

Liptlifter, Dont know who you are but these stoves are UL approved and EPA certified, the were tested in Omni test labs a very well respected lab in the industry. You dont pass those tests by being tacked together. The tops dont get warped only getting your stove up to 400 degrees.

I have the next size down Vogelzang , The Performer Model, its very well made stove and I have compared it to other stoves.

I dont say much about Vogelzang on here but Vogelzang takes a lot of flack based on the old fashioned stove thats still made by them meant to be a cheap old fashioned type stove that was used years ago. You get people trying to compare it a $100 stove to $3000 stoves.

Most people on here have been around the barn a few times and your gonna have to show us a pic before we believe you warped a 3/16" step top type stove only getting the temp to around 400 deg.

Posting pics are very easy. You can copy and paste ones that are small file size and you can upload larger ones from your computer.

Lastly warping the top has nothing to do with the seams and welds. You never said it was coming apart at the welds or seams.


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## diyrye (Jan 2, 2013)

here is the dip in the middle of mine, dont know if it was like that before i got it too hot or not. I never looked across the top before to notice. only about 1/8" if that. it would have to stay glowing orange for quite some time to dip a lot or im sure if that cast iron chicken was on it while glowing that would help bend it down.


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## Huntindog1 (Jan 2, 2013)

Thanks for the pic, looks like there is something there on the left side of center, but if you got it too hot your pretty lucky. You at least know you got it too hot.


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## begreen (Jan 2, 2013)

liplifter said:


> I would if it was easier and it woulnt take that high of heat depending on how it was tacked and welded together. it could have been from factory and never noticed.psoting is too out of my range not joining photo bucked to do that


 
Here's a guide on picture posting. Let me know if you need help.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/putting-images-into-your-forums-posts.87212/


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## liplifter (Jan 2, 2013)

I am a certified welder and fabricator so obviously you dont know what your thlaking about if something is not properly tacked clamped and weldewd in the right sequence it WILL warp no matter if it's 3/16 0r 7/16 and UL rating has nothing to do with quality control in a chinese factory.


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## Huntindog1 (Jan 2, 2013)

liplifter said:


> I have a ponderosa installed 2 weeks ago and the top already has a heat sink in it.Really disappointed.Where do they get the advertised 14 hr burn times ?packed to the gills with osage or ash no longer than 6 and thats on "slow burn".no reply from mfg. yet


 

Well hopefully they will honor their warranty if its like you say.

If your packing it full to the gills of Osage Orange like you said that would be a good case for over heat. Packing these type stoves will lead to over heat with high btu wood and Osage Orange is one of the highest btu wood. Monitoring the stove top temp is a better indicator of how hot the stove is than the stove pipe.

Wood Species Lbs/Cord ,  M BTU/Cord

Osage Orange 4,728 / 32.9 
Hickory, Shagbark 4,327 / 27.7 
Eastern Hornbeam 4,267 / 27.3 
Beech, American 3,890 / 26.8 
Birch, Black 3,890 / 26.8 
Locust, Black 3,890 / 26.8 
Hickory, Bitternut 3,832 / 26.7 
Locust, Honey 3,832 / 26.7 
Apple 4,140 / 26.5
Mulberry 3,712 / 25.8 
Oak, White 4,012 / 25.7 
Maple, Sugar 3,757 / 24 
Oak, Red 3,757 / 24 
Ash, White 3,689 / 23.6


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## begreen (Jan 2, 2013)

Something else sounds amuck. If the stove can't run all day with a full load of locust, hickory or osage orange it's not a serious stove IMO. As long as it's run as designed the stove should be able to run at 650-700F burning this wood.


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## BrowningBAR (Jan 2, 2013)

liplifter said:


> I dont think it's possible to overheat mine but yes the top is warped and i guess heat sink is the wrong term.I cant get the thrmo on the pipe over 350 and its low on the pipe.I would have to leave the door cracked to get it 400 or higher.


Wet wood.


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## Huntindog1 (Jan 2, 2013)

liplifter said:


> I dont think it's possible to overheat mine but yes the top is warped and i guess heat sink is the wrong term.I cant get the thrmo on the pipe over 350 and its low on the pipe.I would have to leave the door cracked to get it 400 or higher.


 
BeGreen,

Your right something sounds a muck , it sounds like wood that has high moisture content. But not being able to get the stove pipe above 350 would not be hot enough to warp the top of the stove. If the stove wasnt getting hot for him and he left the air wide open then later on it heated up with a full load of osage then that may point to why the top is warped. As the wood will eventually dry out even it its slow to start up, then temps in the stove could reach over temp levels once the secondaries fire up.


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## BrowningBAR (Jan 2, 2013)

Huntindog1 said:


> I dont say much about Vogelzang on here but Vogelzang takes a lot of flack based on the old fashioned stove thats still made by them meant to be a cheap old fashioned type stove that was used years ago. You get people trying to compare it a $100 stove to $3000 stoves.


 
They get a lot of flack for the EPA exempt stoves that are dangerous. US Stove also has a few stoves like this. And these are not "$100" stoves. They are listed for over $400 on Home Depot:
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...eyword=wood+stoves&storeId=10051#.UOR5xeRZV-U


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## Huntindog1 (Jan 2, 2013)

Inflation , dang it hits everything. 

He should have bought a NC-30 as you can find those cheaper than the Ponderosa.


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## BrowningBAR (Jan 2, 2013)

Huntindog1 said:


> Inflation , dang it hits everything.
> 
> He should have bought a NC-30 as you can find those cheaper than the Ponderosa.


You can still get a Ponderosa for $999 at Northern Tool. Not a bad deal if the firebox measurements are accurate.


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## begreen (Jan 2, 2013)

Huntindog1 said:


> BeGreen,
> 
> Your right something sounds a muck , it sounds like wood that has high moisture content. But not being able to get the stove pipe above 350 would not be hot enough to warp the top of the stove. If the stove wasnt getting hot for him and he left the air wide open then later on it heated up with a full load of osage then that may point to why the top is warped. As the wood will eventually dry out even it its slow to start up, then temps in the stove could reach over temp levels once the secondaries fire up.


 
Yes, there is a piece of the puzzle missing here for sure. I loaded up the T6 to the gills with locust this morning. It's been cruising at 600F for hours.


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## CenterTree (Jan 5, 2013)

diyrye said:


> I'm guessing you mean the top sunk down in? I find with mine if I pack it with wood and even have the air controls both shut *it can still overheat rather quickly if you don't keep the blower on*. It doesn't seem as air tight as it should be. I'm concerned if I really have it cranking *and power goes out I think the stove would be orange in a minute or two without the blower.* Mine will keep coals for 12+ hrs especially if I shovel ash onto the top of them if I want to just fire it back up later and house is already warm enough.


 
I am entertaining the idea of buying this stove. But, if this stove "needs" to have the blower running in order to not overheat, how can this be a viable stove for power outages. (or cottages without electricity)???

I thought I was sold on the NC30, till I saw this at NorthernTool. Maybe the 30 is better???


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## Huntindog1 (Jan 5, 2013)

All these tube type stoves can over heat if the conditions are right.

Warranty is better on the NC-30.


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## BrowningBAR (Jan 5, 2013)

CenterTree said:


> I thought I was sold on the NC30, till I saw this at NorthernTool. Maybe the 30 is better???


They are both big steel stoves. For the most part, they will both heat about the same size area and provide about the same burn times. Between the two, it comes down to which you like the look of better and how much you are willing to pay. You can get the 30  for $650-900, the Ponderosa is $999-1300.

If you screw up, you can make any stove burn too hot. A fan is not required on either stove.


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## diyrye (Jan 6, 2013)

Centertree: I should say it doesn't "need" to have blower running but it is much easier to overheat without it running. If you want it to put out anywhere close to the amount of btu's it's rated for, you're going to need to run the blower if youre tryin to heat a large area. Mine, if I load it full of smaller split wood and with the air intakes both closed, it will almost definetally get too hot. An infrared thermo would be nice I suppose  get a more accurate reading on stove top as well as pipe temp.


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## BrowningBAR (Jan 6, 2013)

diyrye said:


> Centertree: I should say it doesn't "need" to have blower running but it is much easier to overheat without it running. If you want it to put out anywhere close to the amount of btu's it's rated for, you're going to need to run the blower if youre tryin to heat a large area. Mine, if I load it full of smaller split wood and with the air intakes both closed, it will almost definetally get too hot. An infrared thermo would be nice I suppose get a more accurate reading on stove top as well as pipe temp.


What is your definition of "too hot?"

Because I have not seen or used a stove yet that required a blower to keep it under control.


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## Huntindog1 (Jan 6, 2013)

I think one thing that needs to be pointed out that never leave the stove air wide open and leave the house  as most times the less than quality wood will eventually evaporate the moisture and the stove will then start burning at a higher rate while you are gone and could over heat especially on a big full load packed in there. I can see people thinking , I will leave the air wide open as they dont want the stove to burn out. I have left the house several times with the stove barely burning as I went a head and turned down the air. When I get back home the glass is clean and the wood is burnt so it eventually did get going while I was gone.

One person mentioned they use a small screw that they dropped in the groove of the bimetallic stove top thermometer as the stove heats up the small light weight screw is moved around the dial and then is left at the highest reading of the stove top heat. So you know how hot it got.


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## diyrye (Jan 6, 2013)

Too hot I guess I would say is flue temp over 600. I usualy run mine with the thermometer out if the redone which starts at 5-550 I think off the top of my head?  

If I have both air controls completely closed, door closed and turn the blower off with a fresh loaded of wood it will easily go over 600 degree flue temp. Perhaps my thermometer is off? I think in my hurry to cool the stove off ( when i overheated it) my flue temp was around 800 when the top was glowing. But I could be wrong because I was kinda freaking out at the moment.


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## Huntindog1 (Jan 6, 2013)

I would lay that thermo on the stove top , that is a better way to know how to control the stove.

800 deg  flue pipe  temp and stove top glowing your could have been over 1000 degrees stove top temp. That will warp a stove top especially if your reaching close to 1200 deg which you could have been.

Start turning the air down in 1/4 ways increments when the stove top is 400 degrees. Wait about 4 or 5 minutes and see how its burning and turn it down another 1/4 ways etc.... If its heating up really quick and you loaded on a big bed of coals you know that you can turn it down a little quicker.


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## BrowningBAR (Jan 6, 2013)

diyrye said:


> Too hot I guess I would say is flue temp over 600. I usualy run mine with the thermometer out if the redone which starts at 5-550 I think off the top of my head?
> 
> If I have both air controls completely closed, door closed and turn the blower off with a fresh loaded of wood it will easily go over 600 degree flue temp. Perhaps my thermometer is off? I think in my hurry to cool the stove off ( when i overheated it) my flue temp was around 800 when the top was glowing. But I could be wrong because I was kinda freaking out at the moment.


Are you saying the surface temperature of the pipe is over 600?


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## diyrye (Jan 6, 2013)

Yeah the surface temp of the pipe. I just go by the "red zone" of the thermostat for too hot. Perhaps others run theirs hotter?


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## BrowningBAR (Jan 6, 2013)

diyrye said:


> Yeah the surface temp of the pipe. I just go by the "red zone" of the thermostat for too hot. Perhaps others run theirs hotter?


Your pipe should not be that hot.

Put the thermometer on the stove top and start shutting your air down sooner.


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## diyrye (Jan 6, 2013)

Browningbar: that's with air shut down the whole way. I was saying that if I don't have my blower running that's what the temp would probably hit if i put a full load of wood in on a bed of hot coals. I could test it out again tomorrow with blower off. Usually I shoot for 400 pipe temp with blower on. 

Huntindog: what do you usually try to keep your stove top temp at or below I should say? I put it on my stovetop earlier today for the first time just to see the different in temp.  

That time I overheated I forgot to close the intakes, now I only usually ever push the left one in an inch or so. That's all it needs for a nice bed of coals to light up a fresh load. Then once I see flames I usually shut it completely again Or just about unless I'm lookin for extra heat like in the morning on first load.


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## Pallet Pete (Jan 6, 2013)

If that air control is anything like my old Durango was you should open it up and be sure it did not warp or get crud in there. They have a poopy design ! Also make sure your latch is not bent another crappy design we had to replace 2 times in 3 years. they just wear down then bend. As for the tops of the stoves they are not level at least ours never was it had a sleight bump on the left side. We also found out the hard way they are not folded for strength and are not to thick either. We could never go above 600F safely with that stove.

Pete


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## diyrye (Jan 7, 2013)

I hardly ever turn my blower off so I just loaded it while just coals were left, closed eveything up with blower off and pipe temp is at 440 and top temp is at 650. Almost all the logs are burning except two small splits (due to laying tightly) It's loaded with oak one 1/4 split round and several 1/8 splits. 

I just turned blower on and pipe is at 330 and top is at 600. 

 I just don't think it's as airtight as some stoves. My old alaska kodiak, if I spun the intakes closed, the fire would pretty much go out. And that, packed full ,with doors open I never had glowing.. But the steel was thicker,  and garage was colder and I had a large fan blowing on the side usually.

I'm not trying to deter anyone from buying this stove. I think its a great stove for the price. You just really gotta learn how it burns and that it can get hot quick with little to no air going to it. Perhaps its just the conditions of my setup? It heats my whole house 1920 sqft finished everyday so far this winter. Garage stays at 50 with the interior door closed also. I haven't used any other source of heat. And I don't get up In the middle of the night to reload, always plenty of coals in am to fire right up. Farthest bedroom temp might dip to 65 maybe 63 though by morning if it's in the 20's.


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## diyrye (Mar 13, 2013)

So after almost a full season with the ponderosa I'm really happy i got it. I burned approx 4-5 cords total and only used oil heat for one week when I ran out of seasoned wood and had to break down and buy some... For a rushed install during the first year owning this house I could only prepare so much ha. Like all stoves it takes some getting used to, will need a coat of paint on the top (it's getting thin) but did a good job heating my entire house. I'm investing in an air handler this summer and going to run ducts to every room to get things moving. Ill pull air out of the room, on the other side from the stove, and I have co2 detectors between the stove and intake for air handler to be safe along with another detector upstairs.  I encourage anyone to buy one and I'm sure they will only be improved.

I'm sitting in front of it now enjoying the heat with the door hanging wide open for an hour.. No smoke in the room with the top log only an inch inside the lip of the door opening, smoke all goes up and out. Great for kids making s'mores!


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## VirginiaIron (Sep 25, 2014)

diyrye said:


> View attachment 87536
> 
> here is the dip in the middle of mine, dont know if it was like that before i got it too hot or not. I never looked across the top before to notice. only about 1/8" if that. it would have to stay glowing orange for quite some time to dip a lot or im sure if that cast iron chicken was on it while glowing that would help bend it down.


If you got that stove over fired I think the painted surface would be clouded or frosted and discolored. My Quadrafire has a 1/4+ top plate and it appears drooped slightly in the center.


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## Jags (Sep 25, 2014)

Year old post and DIYRYE  hasn't been on since Jan.  Gonna shut this one down for posterity.


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