# New roof estimate



## Squiner (Nov 17, 2009)

What do you think a reasonable price to replace my roof is? 

I want the current shingles removed and plain white/gray 3 tab shingles laid down.

Some facts:

Single story low slope roof home in Maryland
Roof is approximately 3200 s.f.
Two chimneys to flash (one is 6'x3' other is 2'x2')
Three vent pipe to re-flash
About 3 pieces of plywood to replace
About 100 linear feet of tongue and groove boards need to be replaced


Also, any tips so I can make sure they do a good job the first time? How should I pay them, as they go/once finished?  I really don't want to get screwed out of a lot of money.

Thanks for any guidance that you all may have.

Jim


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## Jack Straw (Nov 17, 2009)

I believe the growing rate for that would be $200 per square(10x10) plus $100 for each pce of plywood installed.


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## Gooserider (Nov 17, 2009)

I would expect that you will find a lot of variation in labor rates and such, so I don't know how much good comments on this from around the country will help...  I would ask around locally to see who has a good reputation and get a few estimates...

Hopefully Hogwildz, our resident roofing expert, will be by and can suggest what your best approach is for telling the roofers what to do in terms of products and such...  

My own comment is that you should look at the costs of different grades of shingles, the biggest part of the job is the labor, the cost of the shingles is only a small part of it, and often the cost difference between the cheapest grade shingles and the best can be quite small as a percentage of the total bill...

Gooserider


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## devinsdad (Nov 17, 2009)

I can only speak for myself but I would go with a 35yr architectural shingle instead. $200 a sq sounds right then hourly for any wood replacement.I would expect to pay for material upfront then labor at the satisfactory completion of the job.


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## EatenByLimestone (Nov 17, 2009)

Looking at materials, you are looking at $2600 in shingles.  $21 in Ply.  About $25 in flashing.  Felt... Cheap, but I can't remember how large a roll is.  Nails are also cheap.  T&G depends on where you buy it and how clear you want it.  I'll go expensive and say $4/ft so $400.  I've never priced out vents, etc.   

I've seen the $200 sq plus materials quote also.  So maybe $10-11,000.

Seeing the difference in parts vs labor has had me on my roof more than I'd care to admit.  I'll be up there later today so I can finish a bit I started yesterday.  

Matt


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## Jack Straw (Nov 17, 2009)

I thought $200 per square included taking off the old roof, the cost of the dumpster, materials and installation. I may have been mistaken though.... I would also recommend the architectural shingles, but I guess it depends on how long you are gonna live there.


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## Shipper50 (Nov 17, 2009)

Since I live in a log home with a steep pitched roof, would the pitch have any effect on his or me getting an idea of cost?

Thanks
Shipper


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## Jack Straw (Nov 17, 2009)

In some ways a really steep roof is easier because you don't have to bend over to nail the shingles, but you do have to put up brackets and boards to work off of. I have a 6/12 pitched roof, you can work directly on it, but it is a challenge. Towards the end of the job we put up some brakets because we were tired.


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## Squiner (Nov 17, 2009)

Thanks for the responses.  I have had one estimate so far and it was $8,700 for the entire job excluding sheathing repair since it's not know exactly the extent that needs to be replaced.  He also quoted $4,500 for only everything but removing the old shingles.

I'm having another contractor stop by tomorrow for another quote.  My wife knows a friend of a friend of the guy.  Hope that helps on the price.


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## Elderthewelder (Nov 18, 2009)

I had my roof done this last summer

The contractor removed old comp shingles and felt, removed old vents, cut ridge of roof and installed a ridge vent, and installed these
 Owens Corning 30 year comp "laminated" shingles http://roofing.owenscorning.com/professional/shingles/oakridge.aspx, and disposed of all waste/garbage

Can not remember how many squares it was, but my house is a 1500  square foot Tri Level home if that helps, cost was $5300


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## PJF1313 (Nov 18, 2009)

It cost us about $10k for our roof, about 3,000 sqr. ft.  That included removal of :
2 layers of asphalt
1 layer of cedar (original AFAIK)
1000 sq ft of hot tar flat roofing

installation of:

3/4 PLY WOOD - no MDF or fiberboard 
GAF Slateline shingles (Lifetime warranty)
COPPER flashing (I provided the copper - 16 gauge leftovers)
1000 sf ft of EDMP of flat roof.

They also carted the wast.

EDIT - this was done in July, '09 on Long Island, N.Y.


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## devinsdad (Nov 18, 2009)

I have had one estimate so far and it was $8,700 for the entire job excluding sheathing repair since it's not know exactly the extent that needs to be replaced.  He also quoted $4,500 for only everything but removing the old shingles.

If that includes material which I hope it would that sounds like a reasonable deal.Just remember cheaper doesn't always mean better. Paying a little more for a guy with liability ins. is always a good thing .A good way to find a good roofer is ask them where they would tar and caulk? The best answer in most cases is  2 dabs on the exposed nails on the last cap shingle :coolsmirk:


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## mayhem (Nov 18, 2009)

Squiner said:
			
		

> Also, any tips so I can make sure they do a good job the first time? How should I pay them, as they go/once finished?  I really don't want to get screwed out of a lot of money.
> 
> Jim



Pay in installments based on clearly specified and written benchmarks.  Last installment doesn't exchange hands until the contract is 100% completed.


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## Squiner (Nov 18, 2009)

devinsdad said:
			
		

> If that includes material which I hope it would that sounds like a reasonable deal.Just remember cheaper doesn't always mean better. Paying a little more for a guy with liability ins. is always a good thing .A good way to find a good roofer is ask them where they would tar and caulk? The best answer in most cases is  2 dabs on the exposed nails on the last cap shingle :coolsmirk:



That's a really good question.  That is the most critical part of the job I want done correctly.  Thanks!


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## Squiner (Nov 18, 2009)

PJF1313 said:
			
		

> It cost us about $10k for our roof, about 3,000 sqr. ft.  That included removal of :
> 2 layers of asphalt
> 1 layer of cedar (original AFAIK)
> 1000 sq ft of hot tar flat roofing
> ...



That sounds like a real good price based on what I have learned so far.


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## Hogwildz (Nov 19, 2009)

32 square sounds awfully large for a single story, sure ya computed right?


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## Hogwildz (Nov 19, 2009)

Pay as said, not all at once.
Do 1/2 at start, 1/2 at completion.
Or split it any other way you want. keep a good chunk on the completion to assure it gets done & done right.


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## Squiner (Nov 19, 2009)

Hogwildz said:
			
		

> 32 square sounds awfully large for a single story, sure ya computed right?



My calculations match the two contrctor estimates thus far.  Two large roof areas cover a carport and another covers a large screned porch.


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## Squiner (Nov 19, 2009)

Another question I have since I had another contractor come by yesterday. 

He thinks that I should consider using the ice shield instead of the felt paper since the roof is low slope.  I'm not sure what the price differeence will be but are there any comments on that?  In Maryland we can get some snow and I guess ice damming can be an issue.


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## SolarAndWood (Nov 19, 2009)

I ice shield everything on my own buildings but it is 5x the price of felt and is a little harder to install.  It isn't going to prevent ice damming.  If you are looking to minimize any potential damage without spending a boatload, you might do a few rows along the eaves and then the rest in felt.


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## Squiner (Nov 19, 2009)

SolarAndWood said:
			
		

> I ice shield everything on my own buildings but it is 5x the price of felt and is a little harder to install.  It isn't going to prevent ice damming.  If you are looking to minimize any potential damage without spending a boatload, you might do a few rows along the eaves and then the rest in felt.



The contractor said that the ice shield will prevent the water from leaking becasue it seals around the nails since it is a rubber that sticks to the roof.  He is also going to give me a quote for only putting it down near the eaves.


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## SolarAndWood (Nov 19, 2009)

It definitely does that.  Almost like having a second roof.  I also run it a couple feet up any sidewalls the roof comes against.


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## Nic36 (Nov 20, 2009)

I skimmed through the posts, but make sure to inquire about how the roofer will install the shingles in any roof valleys you may have. I had my shingles replaced about 3 years ago, only to recently discover two of my four valleys were leaking. I did a little reading and that is one of the most common roofing mistakes. If the valley is not installed properly, water can wick in under the shingles.


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## Squiner (Nov 20, 2009)

Nic36 said:
			
		

> I skimmed through the posts, but make sure to inquire about how the roofer will install the shingles in any roof valleys you may have. I had my shingles replaced about 3 years ago, only to recently discover two of my four valleys were leaking. I did a little reading and that is one of the most common roofing mistakes. If the valley is not installed properly, water can wick in under the shingles.



Thanks for the tip.  Fortunatley I dont have any valleys.  

The one contractor that so far I think will do the best job had one issue.  I asked how he will flash the chimney.  He said with step flashing and with the top cover flashing buried in the grout line.  He said that he will fold the cover flashing and force it into the grout line like you are supposed to.  Although, he will not put fresh grout in to secure it.  He said that he will use caulk.  From my internet searches on how to do this it said to use grout.  

What are the thoughts on this?  Shoul I require him to use grout?  Is grout even considered best practice?


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## SolarAndWood (Nov 20, 2009)

How was it flashed originally?  Is it still there?  Can it be reused and just reinforced with his step flashing and caulk?  This is a major weak point in a lot of roofs.  I don't think I have ever taken one apart and not found rot around the chimneys.  I don't think I would rely on caulk to seal the step flashing to the masonry.


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## Squiner (Nov 20, 2009)

SolarAndWood said:
			
		

> How was it flashed originally?  Is it still there?  Can it be reused and just reinforced with his step flashing and caulk?  This is a major weak point in a lot of roofs.  I don't think I have ever taken one apart and not found rot around the chimneys.  I don't think I would rely on caulk to seal the step flashing to the masonry.



I can't tell exactly how it was originally flashed since it is all slathered up with caulk.  The step flashing only gets nailed down to the roof.  The flashing that covers the step flashing gets sunk into the mortar joint.  I've read that it should be sunk into new mortar on one website and into caulk on other websites.  I think either are fine I guess.  

The contractor said the flashing will be all new.  And yes, my rafters near the chimney have some rot which I need to reinforce.


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## peakbagger (Nov 20, 2009)

Most of the shingled commercial construction in my area has the roof decking covered entirely with EPDM (Grace stormshield). I think its too fold, the likelyhood of call backs and roof leaks is minimal and they dont have to worry if it rains once the EPDM is laid down. The EPDM seems to last forever as long as its got a UV barrier on top of it, like shingles. I would expect the shingles would get visually worn out long before the roof leaks. EPDM for the first six feet is standard for ice dams. They can and will still form if the roof ventilation is not right, but generally it keeps the water from getting back into the house as it does seal the roof nails quite well. On houses with a lot of gables and roof pitches, the standard seem to be fill in the valleys completely.  

A lot of the standing seam metal roofing contractors in the area also install EPDM under the metal as, its almost impossible to trace a standing seam leak to its source making call backs very expensive.


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## Hogwildz (Nov 20, 2009)

Squiner said:
			
		

> SolarAndWood said:
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He could reuse the old counter flashing around the chimney, if he is going to put new on, the old stuff should be removed. Either way, we always used a good caulk, I'm preferential to urethane caulk, the same caulk used in masonry wall expansion joints. Grouting at this point (not during the building of the chimney) has a chance to fail and crack & fall out. A good caulk will do a great job, but only if done right in the first place.
Either way he needs to clean that old caulk out, which is not easy if it was done right. Often times we would cut a new reglet joint a couple inches above the old joint and install a new counter flashing in the new joint & caulk tight.
If we took the old counter flashing out, I would also caulk the tops of the new step flashing as a back up protection in the case the counter should leak for any reason. Not really needed if the counter is sealed good, but extra protection never hurts.


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## emurphy@eclumber.com (Nov 20, 2009)

I've seen allot of good tips on here. Caulking the top of the flashing into the mortar joint will work perfectly. In out area anyway that is very much a standard practice. 

I would make one caution with the Ice and Water Shield. While it  is code in out area to use in on the bottom of the eve, and everyone does it. Allot of people like to try and cover the entire roof with Grace thinking it is better, and it can be. It will stop water from getting to the plywood in the event of shingle blow-off or ice dame etc. *BUT - you have to make sure your roof is VENTILATED properly first*. Otherwise you can create condensation issue on the bottom of the plywood. I personally have been in attic where this happened. It almost looks like the roof is leaking. So, Ice and Water is an excellent investment. And will give you extra protection, but if you don't have adequate ventilation, covering the entire roof deck with it, can cause big issues. 

As far as cost, we sell felt for about $4.00 per sq. Grace is $55.00 PER SQ. IKO Armour Guard Ice and Water is like $30.00

Hope all this informtion from the thread help you tons and good luck with your project. Sounds like your going to have a good roof job done for a fair price, and that is all you can ever hope for.


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## Squiner (Nov 20, 2009)

murph said:
			
		

> I've seen allot of good tips on here. Caulking the top of the flashing into the mortar joint will work perfectly. In out area anyway that is very much a standard practice.
> 
> I would make one caution with the Ice and Water Shield. While it is code in out area to use in on the bottom of the eve, and everyone does it. Allot of people like to try and cover the entire roof with Grace thinking it is better, and it can be. It will stop water from getting to the plywood in the event of shingle blow-off or ice dame etc. *BUT - you have to make sure your roof is VENTILATED properly first*. Otherwise you can create condensation issue on the bottom of the plywood. I personally have been in attic where this happened. It almost looks like the roof is leaking. So, Ice and Water is an excellent investment. And will give you extra protection, but if you don't have adequate ventilation, covering the entire roof deck with it, can cause big issues.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the advice. 

To follow up with what you have said, I don't have very good ventilation. My soffit vents have a 1" hole cut into the board between the rafters. I'm not sure, but I would guess that this isn't adequate. Do you agree? I guess I will have to take a hole saw and cut bigger openings. What is an appropriate sq-in opening to provide adequate ventilation from eave to ridge vent?

Also, just to get a better understanding; does the ice and water shield exacerbate the ventilation/moisture problem over basic felt because it has superior moisture transmission resistance?


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## emurphy@eclumber.com (Nov 20, 2009)

According to the FHA (Federal Housing Administration (US) for every 300 square feet of attic floor area you should have, at minimum one square foot ventilation. Here is good link which explains the calculation's in nice easy terms. BTW I have a fairly large flat roof. Flat roofs are particularly difficult to get to ventilate properly. It may be cheaper to invest in what I like to call whrily bird (turbine type), Your roofer can install them and flash them for you.

http://www.renovation-headquarters.com/attic-ventilation-calculation.htm

Felt paper is somewhat permiable. so it will let some moisture through. So this will cause less of a problem. 

If you find that you don't have adequate ventilation. You might consider spending some of the budget on updating the ventilation rather than ice & water. I say this because it will prolong the life of your replacement shingles, it will help with cooling costs in the summer, and it will also help to minimize Ice Damn to some extent. _note- Ice and water does nothing to stop ice damns. But it does protect your roof underlayment and the inside of your home if it should occur. Either way, I expect that roof damns aren't an issue in MD. _


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## emurphy@eclumber.com (Nov 20, 2009)

Squiner said:
			
		

> murph said:
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## Squiner (Nov 20, 2009)

murph said:
			
		

> Yes you are understanding the ice and water issue perfectly.
> 
> As far as the ventilation requirements I would need the actual dimensions of your roof / house. But that doesn't sound adequate.
> 
> BTW - That was not meant to scare you. This might not be an issue for you at all. It really depends on your life style and how much "water vapor you cause. ie. cooking, showers, humidifiers, dishwashing etc.



I think I can figure out the calculations. The only difference I have is that my house is one story with cathedral ceilings throughout. So I think I am limited to drilling holes. Another issue with my ventilation is that I don't have the baffles in the cathedral ceiling. Fortunately, the 1950's insulation (thin cellulose between felt) is so poor that it doesn't even touch the sheathing.

Another option that I have been thinking about is removing the drywall and insulation in the ceiling and replacing it with expanding foam. I have read conflicting information about not having to have ventilation at all with the foam. That way I could take advantage of the full volume of space for insulation. 

Do you have any experience with this?

I really appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions, sorry for so many!


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## emurphy@eclumber.com (Nov 20, 2009)

No problem at all. 

I know a little about spray foam but not enough that I would want to recommend the application. I know it's a good product and getting better. 

I know there are 2 types closed cell and open cell. I believe closed cell is the type your referring to. It has a really low perm factor which makes it act as both moisture barrier and insulation. 

I'm under the impression that most people use open cell due to the cost. I have a local contractor who uses closed cell, but only uses an inch or so, then adds fiberglass on top on that. (I think he said that closed cell was like $1.00 per *board foot *applied. ugghh)

After reading this reply it sounds like I'm trying to say I know something about the stuff. But not really, I guess I'm regurgitating stuff I've been told and overheard.


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## Squiner (Nov 20, 2009)

murph said:
			
		

> No problem at all.
> 
> I know a little about spray foam but not enough that I would want to recommend the application. I know it's a good product and getting better.
> 
> ...



It's enough for me to get started researching, didn't know about open or closed cell.  thanks


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## Squiner (Nov 20, 2009)

In case any one else has this same issue with cathedral ceilings and venting, I found a website with a great article. 

http://www.buildingscience.com/

Go to the information link and type in "Unvented Roof Assemblies for All Climates".  Talks about Closed-Cell Spray Polyurethane Foam (ccSPF) and it's correct application. 

It's amazing that with 2x6 rafters I can have an R-value of about 34 with the ccSPF.  I really need to look into this more.


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## emurphy@eclumber.com (Nov 20, 2009)

Nice link. I just learned a bunch.

Makes me want to fix my attic.


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