# Econoburn



## BrownianHeatingTech (Nov 27, 2007)

Took a look at an Econoburn today.  As some of you know, I've dropped Greenwood, and have been looking for another boiler to sell.  I narrowed it down pretty well to Econoburn and the Blue Forge.  Both look good on paper.  Unfortunately for Blue Forge, there isn't one handy near here that I can take a look at, so I'll have to go with the one I was actually able to inspect (nothing against Blue Forge - just a rule I have about not selling things sight-unseen).

The Econoburn is a very impressive boiler, if construction quality is any judge.  Fit and finish are excellent, and they even have little details like roller bearings for the door latches.  Plus, it comes on a steel pallet, instead of the usual wood.  Which means it could be left on the pallet, to keep it off the floor, I suppose.  They say they're outting two of their million-BTU units in a castle someone has built (in Connecticut), to keep the moat from freezing.  I suppose if I had a moat, I wouldn't want it to freeze, either, since that defeats the purpose of a moat.

They will also be releasing an outdoor "kit" for the boiler in the near future, which should make things easier in many applications.

I also looked at the Biasi 3WOOD, which is an interesting boiler, in its own right.  Not a gasifier, but also without the gasifier pricetag.  And much smaller, which means it may be good for certain applications where an indoor boiler is needed, and there's no way to get a large gasisifer through the required access space.  Biasi is behind a large percentage of the European boiler market (many of the brands are just re-packaged Biasi blocks), and I've never replaced one due to a block failure.

I'm thinking I will be carrying both of these boilers.

Joe Brown
Brownian Heating Technology
www.brownianheating.com


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## Eric Johnson (Nov 27, 2007)

The Wood Gun has those roller-bearing door sealers, too. Very nice feature.


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## Tony H (Nov 27, 2007)

I considered an Econoburn . it looks like a nice design but for some reason I could not get them to give me a quote and after several calls and e-mails I gave up. After all if I can't get any attention now what about later? I assume they must be too busy to handle the volume right now maybe you can help correct that issue.


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## BrownianHeatingTech (Nov 27, 2007)

Tony H said:
			
		

> I considered an Econoburn . it looks like a nice design but for some reason I could not get them to give me a quote and after several calls and e-mails I gave up. After all if I can't get any attention now what about later? I assume they must be too busy to handle the volume right now maybe you can help correct that issue.



Not sure what that might have been.  I sent them an email, and two separate individuals emailed me back.  One of them called while I was out, and left his cell number.  I called him when I got back, and he answered right away.

I'd suggest trying again, just in case there was some goof-up.

What size boiler do you need?  I can certainly get you a price off my pricelist, anyway.

Joe


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## Tony H (Nov 27, 2007)

Thanks Joe .
 I just figured they were too busy at the time and couldn't keep up with all the requests. I also did not get a quote from Hawkin but eliminated them when I decided an gasifier type was the way to go. I placed an order for an EKO that is scheduled to arrive in the next day or two. When I wrote "maybe you can help that issue"  I meant that the company is taking steps to correct those issues by adding dealers like you that can and will provide service to handle the customer requests.


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## mtfallsmikey (Nov 27, 2007)

Why did you discontinue selling Greenwood? I'm putting in a boiler next year, and the Greenwood was one of my "finalists". Also, i'm interested in an Econoburn, but had the same lackluster results getting a quote. I'm lookingg for a 100-125K BTU model. I'd be interested in tthe outdoor kit too as well.


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## BrownianHeatingTech (Nov 27, 2007)

mtfallsmikey said:
			
		

> Why did you discontinue selling Greenwood? I'm putting in a boiler next year, and the Greenwood was one of my "finalists". Also, i'm interested in an Econoburn, but had the same lackluster results getting a quote. I'm lookingg for a 100-125K BTU model. I'd be interested in tthe outdoor kit too as well.



There are a number of posts around describing the issues that Greenwood has had.  The final straw that broke the camel's back was when I got one with a bad low-water cutoff, and they were all upset that I wanted them to ship the replacement next-day air instead of ground.  I've never had a boiler manufacturer even ask how I wanted a part shipped, when they let a defective product out the door.  Shipping it next-day in a situation like that is just automatic with anyone else I've dealt with.  To have them try and argue about it was that last bit of unprofessional conduct that pushed things over the edge.

When I sell a product, I have to be able to put my name on it without having any qualms about that.  Unlike most heating guys, who use stickers, my tags are photo-anodized aluminum plates.  That's going to be on there, with my name, long after a sticker fades away.  I no longer feel comfortable putting my name on a Greenwood, and I won't sell anything I'm uncomfortable putting my name on.

Joe


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## Nofossil (Nov 27, 2007)

BrownianHeatingTech said:
			
		

> When I sell a product, I have to be able to put my name on it without having any qualms about that.  Unlike most heating guys, who use stickers, my tags are photo-anodized aluminum plates.  That's going to be on there, with my name, long after a sticker fades away.  I no longer feel comfortable putting my name on a Greenwood, and I won't sell anything I'm uncomfortable putting my name on.
> 
> Joe



I wish every retailer had your attitude - the world would be a better place. You add real value for the customer when you use your experience to make decisions like that. Good to see a fellow WPI alumnus doing the right thing. 

PM me for a possible opportunity if you don't mind.


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## BrownianHeatingTech (Nov 27, 2007)

nofossil said:
			
		

> BrownianHeatingTech said:
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> ...


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## ISeeDeadBTUs (Nov 27, 2007)

BrownianHeatingTech said:
			
		

> There are a number of posts around describing the issues that Greenwood has had.  The final straw that broke the camel's back was when I got one with a bad low-water cutoff, and they were all upset that I wanted them to ship the replacement next-day air instead of ground.  I've never had a boiler manufacturer even ask how I wanted a part shipped, when they let a defective product out the door.  Shipping it next-day in a situation like that is just automatic with anyone else I've dealt with.  To have them try and argue about it was that last bit of unprofessional conduct that pushed things over the edge.
> 
> 
> Joe



Let me just guess here . . . was his name Dave Barber, VP of RunningAroundPuttingOutFires???


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## Snubbed (Nov 28, 2007)

Econoburn has only been in production for a year, and was only in the design stages for 6 months.  Some of the systems are unproven, and you may want to wait a while for them to work all the bugs out before investing in this product.  The boiler is essentialy an EKO also, almost identical design.


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## ISeeDeadBTUs (Nov 28, 2007)

I'd concur on the 'Growing Pains' for these companies. The only important test of any of these systems is putting them to use for a few years, at least through the payoff period. This is the biggest issue with GreenWood, as their product is basically good - possibly the best out there if you will not have storage and will burn less than perfect wood.

Looking at a brand new boiler running in a shop is way different from experiencing all it's nuances during a heating season. The Econoburn may end up being great, but time will tell. That is probably why so many people in my neck of the woods have Central Boilers . . . there are so many already installed that they represent a 'known quantity'

Who knows, maybe some of us will be involved in the next generation of combination wood/solar hydronic ;-)


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## henfruit (Nov 28, 2007)

i used joe brown to do my green wood and complete new heating sysytem.he knows his stuff just to bad greed wood support suck! yes i spoke to dave barber once ,boy for an parnter in the company not to customer orientated. hey isee deadbtus could you send mw a pm i would like to speak to you about your outside install. thanks


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## BrownianHeatingTech (Nov 28, 2007)

Snubbed said:
			
		

> Econoburn has only been in production for a year, and was only in the design stages for 6 months.  Some of the systems are unproven, and you may want to wait a while for them to work all the bugs out before investing in this product.  The boiler is essentialy an EKO also, almost identical design.



As you say, the basic design is pretty standard.  Nothing off-the-wall.  The quality is excellent, from what I've seen, and the manufacturer has been in this business a long time.

Every product has to start somewhere...



			
				henfruit said:
			
		

> i used joe brown to do my green wood and complete new heating sysytem.he knows his stuff



Thanks.  I'm going to post some photos of that one.  It's very nice to work with customers who look at the big picture rather than arguing to save a nickle upfront, which ends up costing a dollar in the long run.  Ripping out all that 20-year-old equipment and starting from scratch was the right way to do it, and I enjoy doing things right...

Joe


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## Eric Johnson (Nov 28, 2007)

From what I've read, there are a couple of key people working for that company who are really well respected in the boiler mfg business.

I remain amazed at how little there is to my EKO and other similar gasifier designs. Must all be in the engineering and manufacturing, because I don't see what can go wrong with the basic design. If it works at all, it ought to work for a good long time. I mean, almost no moving parts or close-tolerance components to get gummed up and fail. I know there's gotta be more to it than meets the eye, but to my eye it's a marvel of simplicity.

My point being that if you mate solid boiler design and manufacturing practices with gasification technology, you ought to wind up with a really nice boiler.


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## heaterman (Nov 29, 2007)

Joe, 

I couldn't agree more with your installation/business philosophy. The way I see it, scrimping on equipment, component and installation quality is ALWAYS a recipe for failure. Years of installation experience have taught me that either the equipment will die an early death or else the system as a whole will not perform as desired or intended. In the heating trades, especially hydronic heating, there are no shortcuts.

 When it comes to conventional fueled equipment, my first choice is Viessmann followed by Viessmann followed by Viessmann if that tells you anything. I have a feeling that Econoburn will prove to be of similar product quality and the company so far has provided service and communication at the same level. They are fussy about how their product gets installed which is as it should be. I have to say that I've seen many wood burners and barnloads of conventionally fueled equipment expire prematurely due to incorrect or shoddy installation than I have from actual product failure.

The Econoburn boiler has been patterned after (copied) the best gasification boilers coming out of Austria from what I understand and it's generally acknowledged that the Austrians build the best in the world.
I will be starting an install of a 100 next week and I'm really looking forward to it.  If I can figure out how to post pictures here I'll try to give a pictorial progress report. 

"Sometimes you don't get what you pay for but you're never going to get what you don't pay for." (gramps 1905-1997)


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## BrownianHeatingTech (Nov 29, 2007)

heaterman said:
			
		

> When it comes to conventional fueled equipment, my first choice is Viessmann followed by Viessmann followed by Viessmann if that tells you anything.



If I needed a traditional cast-iron boiler, that's almost certainly where I'd go.  Don't do much cast iron any more.

Of course, the Vitorond 100 isn't a Viessmann boiler, anyway.  It's a Biasi design built by a Spanish company whose name escapes me, from what I've managed to gather.  I wish we could get some of their other products over here, rather than the few that are available.  I'd love a condensing oil option other than the few currently available...

Joe


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## easternbob (Nov 29, 2007)

Does anyone know how to find out where dealers for Econoburn are located?  I live in the Finger Lakes area of NY and I want to check one out.  Was hoping there was some place closer than their factory in Dunkirk.


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## BrownianHeatingTech (Nov 29, 2007)

I believe they can refer you to dealers in your area, if you call them.

Joe


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## BrownianHeatingTech (Dec 5, 2007)

Apparently EconoBurn's folks read this site.  I just got an email with an update...



> As for the Steel Pallets: They are no longer standard. The cost was quite high , but steel fabricating is what the company does best. The new skids are HEAVY reinforced wood. These could be considered the initial load of wood for the firebox. Totally “green” concept – right?



So there you have it.  Not more steel pallets.  But they were quite impressive, and the boiler itself is, as well.  Hopefully we'll have one or two of these going in in the near future, based on the calls I've already been receiving.

Joe


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## Eric Johnson (Dec 5, 2007)

My EKO arrived on this huge steel pallet. I bet it weighs 75 or 100 pounds. Almost too heavy for me to carry, but not quite. I thought about scrapping it, but stashed it in my basement. It comes in handy for getting my riding mower up to the right height so that I can winch it down the Bilco door stairway and into the basement for winter storage. Why do I do that? To make room for more wood in the barn, of course.

If I ever get my hands on a forklift, I'll be able to do all sorts of neat things with that skid.


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## bbb123 (Dec 6, 2007)

Hi new to forum was wondering if anyone knew any prices on the econburn boilers.  I have a Tarm solo 45 with 800gal storage in house and love it.  Lookin for a agriculture application for another one, the $2.00 propane is killin me.


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## BrownianHeatingTech (Dec 6, 2007)

bbb123 said:
			
		

> Hi new to forum was wondering if anyone knew any prices on the econburn boilers.  I have a Tarm solo 45 with 800gal storage in house and love it.  Lookin for a agriculture application for another one, the $2.00 propane is killin me.



What size do you need?

Joe


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## bbb123 (Dec 6, 2007)

prolly the 300k one im heating 2 40'x40'x8' rooms to 90-95 deg. for poultry from april-june.  I have 2" extruded insulation on ceiling and walls but im not worried about being 24 hours i would leave radiant brooders in there.  I would prolly just run several air heat exchangers off them wish i put radiant in floors but to late now.


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## BrownianHeatingTech (Dec 7, 2007)

bbb123 said:
			
		

> prolly the 300k one im heating 2 40'x40'x8' rooms to 90-95 deg. for poultry from april-june.  I have 2" extruded insulation on ceiling and walls but im not worried about being 24 hours i would leave radiant brooders in there.  I would prolly just run several air heat exchangers off them wish i put radiant in floors but to late now.



You're likely on the border between the 200 and the 300, there.  Depends on your actual construction - accurate heat loss would require a blueprint with details of R-values.

If you are going to install a thermal storage tank, I'd definitely say that the 200 is plenty.

Trade price on the 200k is $8900, last I checked.  300k is $13,500.  Personally, given the size of your application probably being right on the border between the two (pending an actual heat loss), I'd suggest the 200, and spend the price difference on a storage tank.  Thermal storage will make you happier than an over-sized boiler would...

Joe


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## altheating (Dec 12, 2007)

Dealers for the Econoburn boilers can be obtained from the factory www.alternativefuelboilers.com or by phone 716-792-2094 the sales email is sales@alternativefuelboilers.com

I am the dealer for all of Central New York, I am located in Herkimer NY. I can be reached at 315-717-3633 or by email, altheating@hughes.net

All inquiries directed to the factory by phone or email will be forwarded to the local dealer.


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