# MS-362 or MS-461?



## Rangerbait (Jan 27, 2017)

I'm leaning toward the 461 at this point...any reason besides cost to choose the 362 over it?  I also have a Husqy 440 for the smaller stuff.


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## Ashful (Jan 27, 2017)

Rangerbait said:


> I'm leaning toward the 461 at this point...any reason besides cost to choose the 362 over it?


No.  I have an 036 PRO, the predecessor to the 362, and I barely use it.  Too big for small jobs, too wimpy when the 85cc 064 AV is sitting there smiling at me.  Grab that 461, put a 24" bar on it, and wield it with pride.  Budget aside (it is cheaper), I see no reason why anyone should buy a 36x over a 46x.


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## Roundgunner (Jan 28, 2017)

I had both 362 is gone now


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## StihlKicking (Jan 28, 2017)

I find the 60cc class of saws to big for small work and to small for big work. Get the 461 or back up to a 261 if comfort is what you want in a saw.


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## mike van (Jan 28, 2017)

Get the bigger saw, you can always go to a shorter bar if needed, but a smaller saw won't always be a good fit with a longer one.  I bought a 660 3 years ago, with a 32" - the beauty of Stihl is the 30 year old 20" bar from my 041 fits right on the new saw.  I even put a 16" on that 660 for a 5 cord pile of  12" dia. locust - Was like using a light saber.    I stihl have the 041 I bought new in '72, I use it all the time -  200.00 it was, lot of money back then. Added a ms200t  for a top handle saw too.   Go big or go home - HA HA -


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## Babaganoosh (Jan 28, 2017)

Go with the 461 for all the above reasons.


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## flopit (Jan 28, 2017)

Stihl dropped the ball with the newer release of the 362-gutless. Run an 18inch bar with full comp chain and it just doesn't run the same as the old 036. I would strongly recommend the 461. This saw is an absolute beast. Power and weight are nicely balanced with a 24inch bar.


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## Rangerbait (Jan 28, 2017)

Soooo...what do you guys really think? [emoji2]

Glad I socialized the $1k saw idea with my wife in advance!


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## Tar12 (Jan 28, 2017)

461 all the way..my bud brought his new 362 to the timber a couple weekends back and asked if I wanted to try it and handed to me. I handed it back to him pretty quick as I had wood to cut...lol


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## Ashful (Jan 28, 2017)

Rangerbait said:


> Soooo...what do you guys really think? [emoji2]
> 
> Glad I socialized the $1k saw idea with my wife in advance!



The good news is it will outlast you, and she'll be able to sell it for $600 when you're cold in the ground.  [emoji14]


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## Rangerbait (Jan 28, 2017)

Ashful said:


> The good news is it will outlast you, and she'll be able to sell it for $600 when you're cold in the ground.  [emoji14]



These current saws have the same longevity as the models of yore?


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## D8Chumley (Jan 28, 2017)

I have a 460 with 20 and 25" bars, usually has the 25" since I have other saws for small to medium stuff. I don't use it a lot but when I do it puts a big smile on my face. Can't comment on the 362 I haven't run one


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## Tar12 (Jan 28, 2017)

Rangerbait said:


> These current saws have the same longevity as the models of yore?


I don't have the answer to that but they don't have a adjustable carb anymore...the power seems to be continually dropping off and they keep tightening up the amount of oil these saws put out...thank you EPA...As soon as I found this out I made a mad dash to upgrade all of my older and well used saws with new old stock.I haven't picked up any of the new "1" series saws and ran it and thought WOW...


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## Rangerbait (Jan 28, 2017)

Is there a Stihl model decoder guide out there somewhere? I can't make any sense of their naming scheme.


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## Tar12 (Jan 28, 2017)

Rangerbait said:


> Is there a Stihl model decoder guide out there somewhere? I can't make any sense of their naming scheme.


the original series were numbered 017,028,044 ect...ect.. then they went to 170,280,440,ect..ect..and now any model number that ends in a 1 is a new series saw. Dont know what happened with the way or why they numbered the 362 other than they truly dropped the ball on this "new" saw.Finding a new saw in the previous series is becoming extremely difficult to find.If you want one and find it..buy it!


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## Rangerbait (Jan 28, 2017)

Tar12 said:


> the original series were numbered 017,028,044 ect...ect.. then they went to 170,280,440,ect..ect..and know any model number that ends in a 1 is a new series saw. Dont know what happened with the way or why they numbered the 362 other than they truly dropped the ball on this "new" saw.Finding a new saw in the previous series is becoming extremely difficult to find.If you want one and find it..buy it!



What does the first number in the model signify, and is there any clear way to tell a "professional" model from a "ranch"?


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## Tar12 (Jan 28, 2017)

Rangerbait said:


> What does the first number in the model signify, and is there any clear way to tell a "professional" model from a "ranch"?


Have you been to the Stihl USA website?
https://www.stihlusa.com/products/product-selector/chain-saws-product-selector/


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## Rangerbait (Jan 28, 2017)

Tar12 said:


> Have you been to the Stihl USA website?
> https://www.stihlusa.com/products/product-selector/chain-saws-product-selector/



I have...I've been using this chart:

https://www.stihlusa.com/WebContent/CMSFileLibrary/downloads/Chain-Saw-Comparison-Chart.pdf

Just trying to make sense of the scheme so if I see something of interest on Craigslist I can tell what class of saw it is. For instance: what in model number MS-250 tells me it's a homeowner model?


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## Tar12 (Jan 28, 2017)

Rangerbait said:


> I have...I've been using this chart:
> 
> https://www.stihlusa.com/WebContent/CMSFileLibrary/downloads/Chain-Saw-Comparison-Chart.pdf
> 
> Just trying to make sense of the scheme so if I see something of interest on Craigslist I can tell what class of saw it is. For instance: what in model number MS-250 tells me it's a homeowner model?


They have them classified on their website. Although they have the 250 classified as a home owners saw I will tell you that they will take a extreme amount of abuse! I ran a pair for 10 years as my main firewood saws in my firewood business..they still ran fine when I upgrade to a pair of 260 pros.


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## Rangerbait (Jan 28, 2017)

Tar12 said:


> They have them classified on their website. Although they have the 250 classified as a home owners saw I will tell you that they will take a extreme amount of abuse! I ran a pair for 10 years as my main firewood saws in my firewood business..they still ran fine when I upgrade to a pair of 260 pros.



I understand they're classified on the website...my question is this: is there any rhyme or reason to the numbering, or is it entirely arbitrary and meaningless without a chart with which to cross reference?


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## Tar12 (Jan 28, 2017)

Rangerbait said:


> I understand they're classified on the website...my question is this: is there any rhyme or reason to the numbering, or is it entirely arbitrary and meaningless without a chart with which to cross reference?


I am sorry...and here I thought you weren't getting it...lol you are correct..there is no rhyme or reason to the numbering. Print the chart off for reference.


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## Ashful (Jan 28, 2017)

Rangerbait said:


> I understand they're classified on the website...my question is this: is there any rhyme or reason to the numbering, or is it entirely arbitrary and meaningless without a chart with which to cross reference?


There used to be visual cues, such as the color of the handle (white handle = pro model on the older models), but I think those visual distinctions have been abandoned in recent models.  It mostly comes down to the design of the case.  With a few exceptions, the pro saws have a split case design, whereas the farm and homeowner saws have a clamshell case design, but exceptions have been made (eg. top-handle saws).


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## Tar12 (Jan 29, 2017)

Ashful said:


> There used to be visual cues, such as the color of the handle (white handle = pro model on the older models), but I think those visual distinctions have been abandoned in recent models.  It mostly comes down to the design of the case.  With a few exceptions, the pro saws have a split case design, whereas the farm and homeowner saws have a clamshell case design, but exceptions have been made (eg. top-handle saws).


Ashful you are absolutely correct on the handle colors...I had forgotten about that... and you are also correct in that there is no color variation in the handles anymore as I just checked my saws.


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## Rangerbait (Jan 30, 2017)

A little off topic, but I started my poplar Holz Hausen yesterday...not as pretty as some, but my radius is only 9' and my splits are a tad on the bigger side.  Next ones will be 12x12 and oak/hickory/cherry.


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## mike van (Jan 30, 2017)

they're out in the sun, for sure -


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## Rangerbait (Jan 30, 2017)

mike van said:


> they're out in the sun, for sure -



And wind! [emoji41]


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## heavy hammer (Jan 30, 2017)

Bigger saw, you can always put a smaller bar on it.  I run a 660 for everything.  I have a 25 inch bar and a 36.  You will appreciate the bigger saw when you come across bigger wood.


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## Rangerbait (Jan 30, 2017)

heavy hammer said:


> Bigger saw, you can always put a smaller bar on it.  I run a 660 for everything.  I have a 25 inch bar and a 36.  You will appreciate the bigger saw when you come across bigger wood.



My man, I like the cut of your jib! [emoji106]

You guys have convinced me...just found a 461 in stock at the local dealer so I can check it out IRL


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## heavy hammer (Jan 30, 2017)

Buy it, my father has a 361 a great saw.  But when I bring out the 660 he instantly grabs it and goes like a kid in a candy store.  After you run it for a little you will be glad you got the bigger one!


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## Rangerbait (Feb 2, 2017)

Just went to the local shop to check it out in person...salesman was saying that it may be getting revised soon with the M-tronic carb like the 362 has and is optional on the 661.  Is that worth waiting for, if it is really going to happen?


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## woodhog73 (Feb 2, 2017)

Rangerbait said:


> Just went to the local shop to check it out in person...salesman was saying that it may be getting revised soon with the M-tronic carb like the 362 has and is optional on the 661.  Is that worth waiting for, if it is really going to happen?



I like Mtronic.

Got a 661 and no issues. It stomps my old 056. Night and day. I don't run it often as I do a lot of limbing and smaller trees and prefer my lighter saws for that, but in big wood the 661 is excellent with the Mtronic. I've also ran a 261 with mtronic and overall a stronger saw than what I remember the 026/260 was. 

I also have an auto tune Jonsered pro saw. Also love the self adjusting. No issues.


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## Rangerbait (Feb 2, 2017)

They've also got a 441 on the shelf next to the 461...same weight, 7 fewer cc's, and $140 cheaper.  Anyone have much experience with the 441?


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## woodhog73 (Feb 2, 2017)

Rangerbait said:


> They've also got a 441 on the shelf next to the 461...same weight, 7 fewer cc's, and $140 cheaper.  Anyone have much experience with the 441?



None here. But it's an mtronic.

I've already mentioned that I personally like auto tuned carbs. I've got both Stihls and Huskys version ( Jonsered same as a Husky only in red). I love how both my auto tuned saws always seems to run " perfect"

On the other hand my 70cc saw a Jonsered 2172 ( Husky 372xp) I'm adjusting in Summer and again in winter. Some days it feels real strong, other days it seems off. Not with my auto tuned saws.

That said, and I'm not brand loyal kinda guy I just want the best deal I can get, but if you don't want a auto tuned saw, and you want a 70cc saw, Id grab a Husky 372 or Johnny 2172. No auto tune and a legendary proven pro 70cc saw.  And again no auto tune. You can grab them for around $800 in my neck of the woods from a pro saw shop probably less online??  so a good deal in the 70cc class

I'd guess a 70cc saw is about right for 95 percent of most folks. Sure I've got a 661 but honestly I didn't need it I can cut everything with my 2172. But I just like power and speed in big hardwoods so that's why I got a 661. If I could only have 1 saw for the rest of my life it would be a 70cc saw though.

Sorry long response. If you wan Mtronic get the 441. If you don't want Mtronic there are other options for you.


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## Ashful (Feb 2, 2017)

Rangerbait said:


> They've also got a 441 on the shelf next to the 461...same weight, 7 fewer cc's, and $140 cheaper.  Anyone have much experience with the 441?



The only reason I even own a saw under 80cc is weight.  So, why would you even consider a saw that's 7cc less, at the same weight?


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## maple1 (Feb 2, 2017)

$140?


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## maple1 (Feb 2, 2017)

Rangerbait said:


> I have...I've been using this chart:
> 
> https://www.stihlusa.com/WebContent/CMSFileLibrary/downloads/Chain-Saw-Comparison-Chart.pdf
> 
> Just trying to make sense of the scheme so if I see something of interest on Craigslist I can tell what class of saw it is. For instance: what in model number MS-250 tells me it's a homeowner model?



The '5'. If the second digit is even, it's pro. If it's odd, it's not pro.


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## woodhog73 (Feb 2, 2017)

Ashful said:


> The only reason I even own a saw under 80cc is weight.  So, why would you even consider a saw that's 7cc less, at the same weight?



I completely agree with you on weight that's why my 50cc saw gets the most use during long days in the woods topping dropped trees.

But in this case there's $140 difference and the addition of Mtronic which in my opinion is a great feature. And very little power difference. Unless your cutting cookies in a chainsaw race. No time for that for me.

Just my opinion


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## Rangerbait (Feb 2, 2017)

Both of those factors...it's a 10% increase in displacement, but does the mtronic advantage erase the difference in CCs? 

What's the deal with this 441 saw...it's not on the website unless you search specifically for it?


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## woodhog73 (Feb 2, 2017)

Rangerbait said:


> Both of those factors...it's a 10% increase in displacement, but does the mtronic advantage erase the difference in CCs?
> 
> What's the deal with this 441 saw...it's not on the website unless you search specifically for it?



Temp discontinued from what my shop says. No need to keep marketing it. Too much unsold stock. Plenty of 441s available though.

I wouldn't let that deter you.


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## woodhog73 (Feb 2, 2017)

Rangerbait said:


> Both of those factors...it's a 10% increase in displacement, but does the mtronic advantage erase the difference in CCs



No the bigger saw makes more power. 


But unless your timing your cuts the difference is so small I'd rather keep the $140 in my pocket . But I like Mtronic. Others don't.

Are you making a living with the saw where time counts ?

If either of these sizes won't be enough for you then get a bigger saw. But I'm guessing a 70cc saw will do just fine. What you cutting. ?

I've run a 36 inch skip on my 2172 ( same power as a 441) and dropped and processed trees 60 inches in diameter . It gets the job done just fine.


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## Ashful (Feb 2, 2017)

maple1 said:


> $140?


I guess, but amortized over the lifetime of a pro saw in a woodburners hands, that's what... less than ten dollars per year?


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## woodhog73 (Feb 2, 2017)

Ashful said:


> I guess, but amortized over the lifetime of a pro saw in a woodburners hands, that's what... less than ten dollars per year?



Or $140 available immediately for PPE, extra chains, etc.


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## Rangerbait (Feb 2, 2017)

woodhog73 said:


> No the bigger saw makes more power.
> 
> 
> But unless your timing your cuts the difference is so small I'd rather keep the $140 in my pocket . But I like Mtronic. Others don't.
> ...



No, I have a day job, but I love cutting and I'm trying to make a solid choice on a saw that I'll keep a good decade or more. 

In all reality I probably won't notice the difference in power since I'll be running 20" and 25" bars for the most part, but the AV characteristics of the 441 appeal to me, as does the m tronic. I have enough people and machines that require constant "tuning"...it'd be nice not to add another one


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## Rangerbait (Feb 3, 2017)

Ended up going with the 441...had the shop swap out the 25" blade for a 20". 

Going to head out early tomorrow to take her for a spin.


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## mike van (Feb 4, 2017)

not a nit-picker, but that would be 25" bar, not blade -


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## Rangerbait (Feb 4, 2017)

mike van said:


> not a nit-picker, but that would be 25" bar, not blade -


Good point.


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## Rangerbait (Feb 4, 2017)

Man, what a game changer. Got in an hour what would have taken me 2+ with my little Husqy. Stoked!


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## heavy hammer (Feb 8, 2017)

Nice saw!  Glad you went with the bigger one?


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## Rangerbait (Feb 8, 2017)

heavy hammer said:


> Nice saw!  Glad you went with the bigger one?



Absolutely! Once I got it out in the bush, it's really not that physically big...but the power is awesome!!


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## flopit (Feb 9, 2017)

Nice choice! The power difference between the 44 and the 46 is barely noticeable but there is a difference. For cutting firewood your going to be a happy man for a long time!


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## neverbilly (Feb 9, 2017)

I don't know how they would compare power-wise but my 362 was ported by a guy who does that and it's really strong. I think it cost a couple hundred for the porting mods. It cuts great.


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## DUMF (Feb 10, 2017)

For most of us non pros only cutting firewood, managing a personal woodlot under 100a, and clearing blowdowns, look at the two pro level saws that will do 90% of all firewood: Stihl MS 261 and the Husky 346 lines. No need for the loggers' big boy saws unless you're logging or doing contract clearing. Or you just like big toys.
Our MS261's with 16" -20" bars and "yellow" semi chisel chains ( the so-called "non safety" chains) do it for us. Less fatigue, enough power to go through all the timber up to 30" which is rare in the N.E. As we get up in years, those 660s and 440s seem to get heavier; better to have a saw that can used safely all day. 
A 16" bar with the right techniques and experience will do a +24" DBH tree. Think boring, wedges, planning the fall. Kind of fun.


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## Rangerbait (Feb 10, 2017)

DUMF said:


> For most of us non pros only cutting firewood, managing a personal woodlot under 100a, and clearing blowdowns, look at the two pro level saws that will do 90% of all firewood: Stihl MS 261 and the Husky 346 lines. No need for the loggers' big boy saws unless you're logging or doing contract clearing. Or you just like big toys.
> Our MS261's with 16" -20" bars and "yellow" semi chisel chains ( the so-called "non safety" chains) do it for us. Less fatigue, enough power to go through all the timber up to 30" which is rare in the N.E. As we get up in years, those 660s and 440s seem to get heavier; better to have a saw that can used safely all day.
> A 16" bar with the right techniques and experience will do a +24" DBH tree. Think boring, wedges, planning the fall. Kind of fun.



It's all good relative I suppose...I'm a giant, strapping, lumberjack of a man, and the logger's big boy saw just feels right in my hands. If I were a slighter man, perhaps the heft of the machine would have held more sway in my decision. [emoji3]

All kidding aside, for the amount of cutting I do in one sitting, the 441's size was a non-issue. The power and speed with which it chewed through those logs was exactly what I was looking for. I was back home in time for breakfast with a truck full of hardwood rounds, and that left a smile on the Mrs's face.


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## DUMF (Feb 10, 2017)

Rangerbait said:


> It's all good relative I suppose...I'm a giant, strapping, lumberjack of a man, and the logger's big boy saw just feels right in my hands. If I were a slighter man, perhaps the heft of the machine would have held more sway in my decision. [emoji3]
> 
> All kidding aside, for the amount of cutting I do in one sitting, the 441's size was a non-issue. The power and speed with which it chewed through those logs was exactly what I was looking for. I was back home in time for breakfast with a truck full of hardwood rounds, and that left a smile on the Mrs's face.





Rangerbait said:


> It's all good relative I suppose...I'm a giant, strapping, lumberjack of a man, and the logger's big boy saw just feels right in my hands. If I were a slighter man, perhaps the heft of the machine would have held more sway in my decision. [emoji3]
> 
> All kidding aside, for the amount of cutting I do in one sitting, the 441's size was a non-issue. The power and speed with which it chewed through those logs was exactly what I was looking for. I was back home in time for breakfast with a truck full of hardwood rounds, and that left a smile on the Mrs's face.



You just one ole good ole boy. Just wait 'til you get up to the 4 score era.
Hey, what'd you have for breakfast ? 
Boy, if I could get a smile like you got using a 440, I may change my mind.


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## Ashful (Feb 11, 2017)

DUMF said:


> For most of us non pros only cutting firewood, managing a personal woodlot under 100a, and clearing blowdowns, look at the two pro level saws that will do 90% of all firewood: Stihl MS 261 and the Husky 346 lines. No need for the loggers' big boy saws unless you're logging or doing contract clearing. Or you just like big toys.
> Our MS261's with 16" -20" bars and "yellow" semi chisel chains ( the so-called "non safety" chains) do it for us. Less fatigue, enough power to go through all the timber up to 30" which is rare in the N.E. As we get up in years, those 660s and 440s seem to get heavier; better to have a saw that can used safely all day.
> A 16" bar with the right techniques and experience will do a +24" DBH tree. Think boring, wedges, planning the fall. Kind of fun.



No way I'd tolerate the frustrating slow speed of a 261, for all-day cutting.  Heck, I can barely tolerate bucking with my 036, after getting used to the speed of the 064.  If you like little saws, that's fine, but don't assume others share your affliction!


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## Rangerbait (Feb 12, 2017)

Ashful said:


> No way I'd tolerate the frustrating slow speed of a 261, for all-day cutting.  Heck, I can barely tolerate bucking with my 036, after getting used to the speed of the 064.  If you like little saws, that's fine, but don't assume others share your affliction!












Agree...after tackling this pile yesterday, I was very happy to have the bigger saw.  Another dawn patrol session, another return home by breakfast time with a full truck!  :-D


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## heavy hammer (Feb 12, 2017)

My father is going on 63 and he has a 039 and a 361.  When the 660 comes out he always wants to run it.  He has been cutting for decades and he runs a saw like a pro.  He has no issue with cutting all day with the big saw.  Everyone has a different personal preference but I like the bigger saw!  As showmen above it makes quick work.


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## Tar12 (Feb 12, 2017)

Ashful said:


> No way I'd tolerate the frustrating slow speed of a 261, for all-day cutting.  Heck, I can barely tolerate bucking with my 036, after getting used to the speed of the 064.  If you like little saws, that's fine, but don't assume others share your affliction!


I follow a logger friend around a lot cutting tops. The base of some of these tops range from 18-24 up to 3-4 ft across. I have it all covered.EVERYTHING comes home with me regardless of size.Every saw in my arsenal serves a purpose...we grab the 260 pros first and trim down to the meat log and grab the appropriate saw to wrap it up.This method saves my back.When I get to the meat of the larger logs I don't like playing patty cake with them and the 660 come out.H.P. trumps every time! My 44 has been rebuilt twice and there will not be a third time and my 39 is getting tired...a 461 is right around the corner for me.It will do everything I need and replace both saws.


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## Ashful (Feb 12, 2017)

Tar12 said:


> I follow a logger friend around a lot cutting tops. The base of some of these tops range from 18-24 up to 3-4 ft across. I have it all covered.EVERYTHING comes home with me regardless of size.Every saw in my arsenal serves a purpose...we grab the 260 pros first and trim down to the meat log and grab the appropriate saw to wrap it up.This method saves my back.When I get to the meat of the larger logs I don't like playing patty cake with them and the 660 come out.H.P. trumps every time! My 44 has been rebuilt twice and there will not be a third time and my 39 is getting tired...a 461 is right around the corner for me.It will do everything I need and replace both saws.



Exactly.  I use the 036 for topping or limbing, the 35cc top handle for marking out my bucking lengths and some smaller limbing, then the 064 for everything else.  If I'm felling something small enough, I occasionally use the 036 for that, too.


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