# Not Termites! Borer beetles infesting wood pile



## 8686 (Mar 10, 2014)

So, last Sept I had a couple trees taken down.  The tree guys cut em up and I stacked it.  The rows connect to the previous pile of wood left over by the prev homeowners (the wood stacks form an "L").  We moved in last August, so this pile of wood was left sitting on the ground for what looks like years.  

I just got around to chopping it up on Saturday.  I knew there was trouble when I was able to lift a huge log like it was nothing.  It seems the termites have been feasting on this stuff for years.

So now I'm worried that they are going to move in on my new wood stacks.  They are sitting off the ground on pressure treated 4x4 but both piles rest against the same tree.

I am also worried that once the warm weather comes around these termites are going to come back to life.

If I have to spray the infested wood and toss it, no worries.  But is there anything I can do to prevent the new stacks from getting infested?


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## 8686 (Mar 10, 2014)

actually, now that I am reading about termites, I'm not sure the damage was produced by termites.  I found dormant white worms in the wood about the length of a penny.  They were in between the bark and the wood.  I also did not notice any shelter tubes any where.  And the damage seemed to start on the inside and work its way out.  I think termites start on the outside and work their way in.


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## Ashful (Mar 10, 2014)

I've seen much of the same, as I moved into a similar situation, with a previous owner who'd left several cords of wood just tossed in a pile on the ground for years.  I also had an uncle bring me a truckload of free wood, and then a month later tell me they discovered termites in the house against which that wood had been previously stacked.  "Thanks!"

What I've learned is that termites will NOT colonize in wood.  They live in the ground.  The workers make daily trips out of their next in the ground, to harvest wood, and bring it back to the nest.  So, it's almost impossible to move a colony of termites, when moving wood.  At most, you might move a few workers, who will die after a short time away from their colony.

If you have 'em in your ground, they will attack your wood, old and new.  But the likelihood of that colony moving to the house is probably not affected by the fact that you're a woodburner.

I would like to hear someone's take on what those white worms / grubs really are.  I've seen them in my split rounds, as well.  Usually about 0.25" diameter x 1" long.


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## 8686 (Mar 10, 2014)

Yes, if you google "white worm boring beetle" you will see the worms.  It seems they are beetles, but they bore through wood.  Looks like I will be putting down Scott's summerguard all over the ground.

I might spray some Home Defense along the bottom of my fresh wood (on the pressure treated 4x4 they are sitting on. Prevent them from crawling up.


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## CenterTree (Mar 10, 2014)

I'm guessing the beetle laden wood will burn just fine.  Extra BTU's.

Just split and burn the old stuff first of course. 

Soooo, are ya gonna split those new rounds?



.


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## jatoxico (Mar 10, 2014)

I bucked up about half of a downed tree yesterday. It went down during Sandy and has been fully on the ground since. There are holes covering the entire tree every 4-6" or so. I almost took pics now I wish I had. The bark was loose enough that I could easily remove it using my peavey to get it started. Came off in sheets and it was full of grubs. It's stacked in the round but I have no plan to split it for a while. If I left it with the bark on it would just be a mess.

I take the time to get any bark off that I can when it's easy like that. I think the wood dries better, is less messy down the road and will hold up better in the stacks over time.


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## 8686 (Mar 10, 2014)

That's a good idea to take the bark off.

Yes, they look like elongated turf grubs.  I actually did burn a lot of that beetle laden stuff but then I started getting paranoid about bringing that stuff in the house.  

Choppin that wood nearly killed me.  I had the fiskars x27 going but man, that is a workout.  Maybe I'm swinging too hard.


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## 8686 (Mar 10, 2014)

When I get to chopping those rounds, do you think the chopped pieces will form a pile about the same size as when left in the round?  

I was going to stack it like a log cabin to allow air to get in everywhere but I have so many uneven pieces, I would need to have an architecture degree from MIT to do this.  I'm just going to stack it linear.


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## blades (Mar 10, 2014)

I see those grubs every so often, but (its really hard to tell from picture) I think the old wood is dry rotted which would make it very light. If it was just the grubs work it would have to be swiss cheese by your description.
Get the new stuff split asap, debark if you want ( it does help dry quicker that way, but is a pain) Bark does hold moisture in the area just under it.That is also the area most bugs like to start or hang out in  Like anything else those grubs need moisture. Lot of different boring grubs- they are all ugly as sin to me. I tend to find more of them in the soft maples, although hickory and locust have there own variety.


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## Ashful (Mar 10, 2014)

8686 said:


> When I get to chopping those rounds, do you think the chopped pieces will form a pile about the same size as when left in the round?


Depends on the size of your rounds and the size of your splits.  A typical stacked cord contains roughly 85 cu.ft. of wood, according to the few government estimates I've read on the subject.  It's a very simple geometric problem to figure out what size round will yield 85 cu.ft. / 128 cu.ft. stacking density.  I'll tackle that one tonight, if no one else does it first.


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## MrWhoopee (Mar 10, 2014)

There's no point in treating the ground with pesticides. The beetles don't burrow, they fly. Out here in the west, they tend to attack freshly cut wood. I started looking for them after I could HEAR them chomping away in my stack of fresh cut white fir. Our grubs are about twice the size you describe.


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## 8686 (Mar 10, 2014)

Can you do anything about this?


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## jatoxico (Mar 10, 2014)

8686 said:


> Can you do anything about this?



Best defense is a good offense. Split the wood. As it dries it becomes much less hospitable to the bugs. I'm guessing a fair amount of bark falls off in the process which will be a good thing. Then you'll only have to worry about the mice...oh and the spiders.


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## Applesister (Mar 10, 2014)

Its been long established that the bugs are a lesser evil over pesticides.
look up Asian Long Horned beetle
and Emerald Ash Borer
Those are 2 common beetle types that are easy to find info on.


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## Backwoods Savage (Mar 10, 2014)

Simply put, we just do not worry about any bugs or pests in our wood piles. We stack the wood so it does not touch the ground. Usually the stacking is done in the spring right after the splitting which is done right after snow melt. We leave the wood all summer and fall but by December we then top cover the wood using old galvanized roofing. Never had a problem doing it this way. Here are a few pictures of some stacked and some being stacked. Notice in 2 pictures they are top covered with old roofing. In that first picture, you can even see where our splitter is; under that tarp in between two wood piles.


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## Wood Duck (Mar 10, 2014)

Are you sure the wood was damaged after it was on the ground? A lot of that damage is similar to the types of damage I have seen in standing trees. Lots of apparently healthy trees have the heartwood rotted out and insect damaged.


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## 8686 (Mar 10, 2014)

Well the middle is all black with what looks like tubes that were carved out by worms.  I noticed holes all over the wood from the exterior. They look like drill holes. Very clean.

Wow those are some nice stacks!  Clean looking wood. Very fresh!


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## jatoxico (Mar 10, 2014)

8686 said:


> Well the middle is all black with what looks like tubes that were carved out by worms.  I noticed holes all over the wood from the exterior. They look like drill holes. Very clean.
> 
> Wow those are some nice stacks!  Clean looking wood. Very fresh!



Could have a couple things going on. Some of the damage looks like the work of carpenter ants.


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## 8686 (Mar 10, 2014)

Tons of white grub like worms about 3/4 inch long dormant underneath the bark.  I hope when i split and stack it the bugs will find somewhere else to go.


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## Applesister (Mar 10, 2014)

They will just chew around, pupate, and then exit out the escape hatches and fly away.


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## _CY_ (Mar 11, 2014)

8686 said:


> So, last Sept I had a couple trees taken down.  The tree guys cut em up and I stacked it.  The rows connect to the previous pile of wood left over by the prev homeowners (the wood stacks form an "L").  We moved in last August, so this pile of wood was left sitting on the ground for what looks like years.
> 
> I just got around to chopping it up on Saturday.  I knew there was trouble when I was able to lift a huge log like it was nothing.  It seems the termites have been feasting on this stuff for years.
> 
> ...



yes treatment with fipronil is the most effective way to treat for termites. brand name is termidor .. costs about $70 online for enough to treat your house for termites.

fipronil works completely different than other insecticide .. disrupts the insect central nervous system by blocking the passage of chloride ions.

once termites are infected .. they carry back fipronil back to colony .. which then infects entire colony. works the same ways for cock roaches. fipronil is the most effective insecticide that I'm aware of ... tests in Africa had to be halted because fipronil was wiping out entire colonies .. taking away food from creatures that fed on termites.

fipronil is used for* Field Corn Insect Pest Management* .. so it's relatively safe .. fipronil is also used on dogs for flea control (Frontline has fipronil)


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## 8686 (Mar 11, 2014)

good to know thank you.  The garage (detached) had a ton of termite shelter tubes, but the prev homeowner had it treated.  I usually use Ortho's Home Defense multi purp insecticide but If I find out for sure it is termites I will try your rec.

Every pic I see of termite damage on fallen wood shows the damage starting on the outside.


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## DougA (Mar 11, 2014)

jatoxico said:


> Best defense is a good offense. Split the wood. As it dries it becomes much less hospitable to the bugs. I'm guessing a fair amount of bark falls off in the process which will be a good thing. Then you'll only have to worry about the mice...oh and the spiders.


Any wood sitting on the ground for a year or more in our area is always in the process of being eaten. How long it takes is dependent upon the type of tree and how long it stood dead prior to falling/cutting. I've left a few small piles for more than 2 years by forgetting they were there and it's all junk. Not worth salvage. 
We have no termites, it's just the natural process of wood returning to the soil via critters. 
The problem is that if you store wood inside at all, when you bring it in, the bugs come with you. Our house got small flying moths from wood and they are super tough to get rid of. I see them coming out of the wood pile once it warms up. If you can store it outside in the cold and bring it directly in & burn it, you'll be OK.
Wood that is badly infested I save for the kids for their bonfires.


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## razerface (Mar 11, 2014)

i burnt some wood like you show in your pics, if it has enough solid wood attached. I usually take wood in and stack it in my basement,,but when I burn wood like that, it goes straight from the stack to the stove,,,just in case there are bugs.


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## 8686 (Mar 11, 2014)

Yeah, it's hard to say what has bugs in it.  Apparently, these white grub-like worms are laying dormant beneath the bark.  I took all the wood from inside the basement and brought it back outside.  I don't want the heat from the house to confuse these little buggers into thinking it's spring already, and then come out to play.

I just generally don't like the idea of storing wood in the house.  I guess I will just keep it tarped right outside.


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