# Propane Generator



## xman23 (Oct 31, 2012)

I am going to purchase a 2 to 6 KW generator. I am going to keep it a small as possible, trying to reduce fuel consumption. 110 Volt or the smallest 220 is what I am thinking. One idea I have is to go with a propane fuel model. My reasons are fuel doesn't go bad, carbs don't gum up. I hope to purchase a large propane tank.

Any pro or cons with propane or gas?  Can you buy and fill larger than a 20 LBS tank?  Model you like?

Thanks for your thoughts
Tom


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## BrotherBart (Oct 31, 2012)

Mine are gasoline. But over the years I have heard and read a lot about problems with propane generators starting in very cold weather. And fuel pressure problems when the tank is cold.


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## corey21 (Oct 31, 2012)

Mine is gas also.

My propane heater did not run well at all in cold weather it is no longer used.


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## EatenByLimestone (Oct 31, 2012)

First off, there are many different sized propane tanks you can buy.  The last one I picked up was a 100lb tank from Tractor Supply.  It cost around $100 and filling it up ran around 60-70 when I filled it last year.  I just checked TSC and they sell 20, 30, 40 and 100lb tanks.

Maybe a conversion kit is an option?   That way you could run propane and gas on the same generator.   

Check the propane usage for the generator you're using.  I was surprised at the amount it used and think that gasoline would be easier to find in an emergency unless you had a large propane tank.  I don't consider a 100lb tank large.  

When I sat down and figured what I'd want to keep running for a week without power I was surprised on how little it was.  At the time it was only a few lights.  I figured what was in the fridge was a lost cause after a few days.  I ended up with a little 2 cycle 800 watt job.   I now have a chest freezer and would like a larger generator that I could run every couple days and keep it cold.   I'm thinking I could get by with something in the 2000 watt range would work for me.   Since only an hour or two of use a day would do me fine, I think I could make 10 gallons of gas last a long time.  Whatever gas was left could go into the truck. 

Matt


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## jotul8e2 (Oct 31, 2012)

It takes something over four pounds of propane to make a gallon.  A gallon of gas has nearly 50% more btus than a gallon of propane.  So, a 100 lb. tank of propane will have - very roughly - the energy equivalent of 16 gallons of gasoline.  A 6 kw generator at 1/2 load will burn 1 to 1 1/2 gal. of gasoline an hour.  A 100 lb. tank of propane might not last an entire day.

I know I thought about a pad mounted propane standby unit for my place - until I realized it would need a 500 gal. tank all to itself.


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## Highbeam (Oct 31, 2012)

My experience is that a 6kw sized genset will burn much less, between 0.5 and 1.0 gallons of gasoline per hour so you'll get more time but good point, not a lot. You can still buy the big propane pig tanks at home depot. That size tank, about 100 gallons, is not portable but it can be located just about anywhere without setback requirements.

I went with the smallest 220 volt genset I could find which is the very popular champion 4000. It will easily run 12 hours on one 4 or 5 gallon fill of gasoline, is relatively quiet, easy to start, and I can lift it into a pickup. 

Good idea on minimizing genset size. You don't need to be heating water, running the dryer, hot tub, or baking in the oven with electricity during an emergency outage. The biggest emergency load will usually be a water well pump if you have one.


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## BrotherBart (Oct 31, 2012)

I have two 3250/2500 gas powered gennys. I also have a 5000 watt but after I bought the first small one and saw it run all that we needed for a week for a fraction of the gas of the big one the big one just holds the floor of the genny shed down. I just fire the second one for the coffee maker and the really nice dual burner hot plate on the top of the kitchen stove to cook breakfast and shut it down until time to cook something else. Just one of them runs all of the fridges, TVs, computers and lights in the joint just fine. I have a whole house power monitor and aside from the well pump and the water heater it is really rare to see more than 2KWH of juice being drawn at one time.


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## pen (Oct 31, 2012)

We've had a good number of power outages over the last decade (WAY more than we had in the 20 years prior). As a result, lots of folks around here now have generators, many, choose a whole house unit that runs off the propane tank that they have already.

A little over a year ago, when Irene came through, a good many of those folks generators kicked on and they thought the world was grand. That was, until they realized the propane company and let them get low (like under 30% in their tanks since usage is down in the spring/summer/fall) and they were out out fuel in short order.

I echo the cold starting problems / icing problems with propane tanks when the weather is cold. A propane generator I was looking at the other day was listed at 7k I believe, and claimed 10-12 hours on a 20lb cylinder at 50% load. If that usage is accurate, that's pretty darn good. However, I've used propane out of a 20lb cylinder at a slower rate than that before when temps are in the mid 20's outside, and had the propane tank freeze up so I'd be concerned about a generator having the same problem.

If you go propane, I'd go for the biggest cylinder that the propane company would allow me to have on my property, and make sure it doesn't get low, even in the summer.

Also, the whole house units that kick on automatically often have an electric heater for the carb. That means, even if you tried turning it off to save fuel in cold weather, you may not be able to get it to fire again w/out electric to heat things up.

pen


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## jlightning (Oct 31, 2012)

I am a big fan of my storm responder gas generator i have.  I am running it now as i type!  The power has been out for two days after Sandy passed through.  i have ran the generator during the days but turn it off at night and have gone through 12 gal gas for a 5500-8200w generator.  The generator runs 2 refrigerators 1 chest freezer two lights the fan for my stove a osculating  fan phone chargers and the tv and im probably forgetting something!  I thought about a propane  setup also but for the fact that i dont keep alot of propane on hand and always have 20gal of gas around for my mower and other gas powered equipment it just made more sense.  As long as you put stabilizers in the fuel and you run the engine dry before storing it you should be fine.  I didnt even need to use the choke to start it after sitting for a year!


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## Captain Hornet (Oct 31, 2012)

I modified my 4000w generator with a add on propane kit.  Didn't like the idea of gas sitting around getting old and gummy.  The kit well let you use gas, propane or natural gas, your choice.  So far it's worked great with no problems.  Try  www.propane-generators.com. Their site has lots of good info.   David


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## bogydave (Oct 31, 2012)

My opinion:
In an emergency, gasoline is more easy to scrounge up if needed.
Seem to always have a gas can around.
Mine's gasoline, 120/220 V so I can run the well pump.


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## Elderthewelder (Oct 31, 2012)

what are all your thoughts on tri fuel gen sets, kinda like the NG idea; I run a NG BBQ on my back deck, do not see why I could not run a gen set there as well
here is just one of many links
http://www.yamaha-propane-natural-gas-generators.com/


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## BIGDADDY (Oct 31, 2012)

Natural Gas Generator Sets
A natural gas generator connects directly to a natural gas line for clean, safe and quiet operation.
Advantages:
Usually unlimited fuel source - refueling not necessary
Clean burning
Almost always available during power outages
No unsightly tank required
Disadvantages:
May be unavailable during natural disasters (earthquakes, etc.)
Lower power output (30% less BTU's per unit than gasoline)
Larger tanks are not aesthetically pleasing (unsightly)
Fuel system plumbing results in higher installation cost
Not available in many areas

Propane Generator 
Advantages:
Long shelf life
Clean burning
Easily stored in both large tanks or in smaller 5-10 gallon cylinders
Obtainable during power outages - gas stations may be unable to pump other fuels during an area wide outage but, LP tanks are usually stocked full
Home delivery available for larger tanks is commonplace
Disadvantages:
Pressurized cylinder of flammable gas
Fuel system is more complicated (increased possibility of failure)
Larger tanks are not aesthetically pleasing (unsightly)
Fuel system plumbing results in higher installation cost
Some local ordinances prohibit the use of high pressure LP in residential applications


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## seige101 (Oct 31, 2012)

EatenByLimestone said:


> .....I now have a chest freezer and would like a larger generator that I could run every couple days and keep it cold. I'm thinking I could get by with something in the 2000 watt range would work for me. Since only an hour or two of use a day would do me fine, I think I could make 10 gallons of gas last a long time. Whatever gas was left could go into the truck.
> 
> Matt



Look into the Campion 73536i inverter generator 1700 watts continuous and 2000 watts surge. Real world run times are 8-9 hours at 50% load using the ECO option. Thing is virtually silent outside sitting on the deck. Paid just about $500 a year ago from cabelas

I torture tested it running a 1500 watt ceramic heater and 300 watt halogen worklight and it didn't even stutter and voltage output only dropped down to 118 volts (normal was 122)


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## MasterMech (Nov 2, 2012)

My Generator inventory:

Gillette 7200W - 14 hp Briggs Vanguard V-Twin, elect. start, sits in the garage near the overhead door and is wired to the house via a manual transfer switch.

Positives: Has the cajones to run AC's (for summertime outages) and my well pump, fridge, freezer, lights, TV, microwave, .... Good on fuel for the output of the generator, has a "idle down feature" which is helpful as well.  This unit also keeps me in business (working from the garage) during long outages as well since it also runs my compressor, garage lights, small welder, and other power tools.  Good clean output due to the quality of the generator and the v-twin's smoother power delivery.  I have run my TV's and computers from it for a week at a time with no issues.  My wife can start it and switch over the transfer switch so I don't have to be home in an emergency which is great since I am often helping freinds/family during emergencies or responding to service calls.

Drawbacks: It's damned expensive to run (about $50 a day right now, $3.80 ish a gallon) if you need it 24/7 (which I often don't.  It's noisy being in the garage and necessitates leaving the overhead open at least 12" meaning that my shop/tools are unsecured.  It's heavy enough that I'm not worried about it "walking" away  (and don't want to meet the sumbitch that can pick it up....) which means I can't use it away from my house without some serious planning/effort.

Honda EV6010 RV Generator mounted in my service trailer

Positives:  It's quiet, liquid-cooled, and powerful.  It's mounted in my trailer so it can follow me anywhere I can drive.  It's pretty decent on fuel and since it's also a twin-cyl engine, very clean output.  It's exceptionally quiet for a 6kw unit as well.  Push-button operability, no choke controls to fiddle with, you push start and it fires, that simple.

Drawbacks:  The trailer ain't exactly petite so you need extension cords long enough to reach it wherever you park it.   I haven't converted it to 220V output either so it won't run most well-pumps, water heaters, etc.

Chicago Electric 800/900w 2-stroke "pup" generator

Getting to like this unit more even tho it can be a tad cantankerous at times.  But for $80 what the hell, right?  I use it like a portable outlet, it's very quiet and amazing on fuel.  Note the engine likes lots of cheapo oil in the fuel rather than a sparing dose of top-shelf stuff.


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## fire_man (Nov 2, 2012)

Anybody know advantages/disadvantages with diesel generators? Those of us that have 275 gallon home heating oil tanks have no problems with fuel availability, and heating oil has high BTU's.


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## Highbeam (Nov 2, 2012)

The diesel gensets are typically larger, heavier, and significantly more expensive than the gas gensets. You also don't generally see smaller ones. I have seen a few air cooled single cyclinder 3600 rpm shinese diesel sets but they are not cheap and since they are very chinese looking it is a big risk.

Buying a civilian market diesel genset from an american type company means very high output, non-portable, and super expensive.

The best bet is to try and find a used RV diesel genset. Fancy diesel pusher motorhomes sometimes had diesel gensets, often onan brand, that were 1800 rpm and quiet.


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## peakbagger (Nov 2, 2012)

Most of the small diesels are chinese low grade stuff. Lombardi makes a good engine and Kohler now reps them in the US. Yanmars are also good quality. They are both expensive. In general any diesel is quite heavy and can be difficult to start in cold weather.

There are a small but dedicated bunch that runs the old Lister Diesels, they were designed eons ago and the Indians still makes clones of them. They will run forever and will burn just about anything and are slow speed. Unfortunately the EPA banned them from importation.  I have even seen some converted to wood gas operation.

Here is a link to a site that used to import them (they dont anymore) but it has a geat video (unfortunately I think the audio doesnt work). If you really want one for a project, there is someone in Canada that imports Lister compressors that are identical to the diesel minus some key part that they will gladly sell you.

I have a more recent 1960's Lister Petter12 volt high speed generator sitting in my garage waiting to get turned into a portable power plant.


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## rkusek (Nov 2, 2012)

I have a Coleman 6250/5000W continuous that I fortunately haven't had to use yet in an emergency. My BIL used it for several days while framing his home a couple years ago.  Fired it up a couple weeks ago to make sure the Stabil was doing its job.  I'm not sure how well it would run my boiler circs or boiler for that matter due to the power quality.  I too have been thinking of going the diesel route.  Shelf life on that stuff is quite a bit longer than gas.  Some type of generator head that would connect to my little 16hp JD diesel tractor and use an alternator to charge the deep cycles for the boiler inverter.    I don't think I would ever have enough gas on hand to run the Coleman more than a few days.  Guess I would have 3 autos to siphon gas out of as long as they weren't all empty!


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## fire_man (Nov 2, 2012)

Bummer on all the drawback for diesel generators. I was hoping it might be a good solution for me since I have the big oil tank in the basement that never gets used thanks to wood heat. Not having to worry about storing gasoline would be a big Plus.We lose power all the time in the Merrimac valley, at least in my neck of the woods.


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## BIGDADDY (Nov 2, 2012)

MasterMech said:


> My Generator inventory:
> 
> Gillette 7200W - 14 hp Briggs Vanguard V-Twin, elect. start, sits in the garage near the overhead door and is wired to the house via a manual transfer switch.
> 
> ...




Is your garage attached to your house? I heard in the news recently of a few people dying from carbon monoxide. I think it's smart that you open the garage door a foot but I don't think it's recommended to run it in doors. Sounds like you are doing fine.


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## xman23 (Nov 2, 2012)

seige101 said:


> Look into the Campion 73536i inverter generator 1700 watts continuous and 2000 watts surge. Real world run times are 8-9 hours at 50% load using the ECO option. Thing is virtually silent outside sitting on the deck. Paid just about $500 a year ago from cabelas
> 
> I torture tested it running a 1500 watt ceramic heater and 300 watt halogen worklight and it didn't even stutter and voltage output only dropped down to 118 volts (normal was 122)


 Seige, Thanks,  I took your recommendation found the Campion online and ordered one $599 now. Not the propane I was considering, but I always have a lot of gas on hand with all my gas powerd equipment. It's the right size 1700 watts, will run the fridge, gas furnace, and lights. Of course one at a time. It should be good on fuel,  quiet,  light and portable and outputs sine wave power.

Tom


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## CT-Mike (Nov 2, 2012)

For those looking for a diesel powered genset, do some looking at www.govliquidation.com. This website auctions off military surplus equipment. You want to search for "Generators." What you are looking for is 'MEP-003A' for 10 KW, MEP-004A for 20KW, and MEP-005A is a 30KW machine. MEP stands for Mobile Emergency Power. These are military grade sets that will last forever.


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## jotul8e2 (Nov 2, 2012)

jotul8e2 said:


> ... A 6 kw generator at 1/2 load will burn 1 to 1 1/2 gal. of gasoline an hour.


 


Highbeam said:


> My experience is that a 6kw sized genset will burn much less, between 0.5 and 1.0 gallons of gasoline per hour so you'll get more time but good point, not a lot.


 
We are both right.  You seldom will run at half load (unless your are using electric heat - and if so what are you doing on a wood burning forum? ), so your actual consumption per hour would be less than a gallon of gas per hour.


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## seige101 (Nov 3, 2012)

xman23 said:


> Seige, Thanks, I took your recommendation found the Campion online and ordered one $599 now. Not the propane I was considering, but I always have a lot of gas on hand with all my gas powerd equipment. It's the right size 1700 watts, will run the fridge, gas furnace, and lights. Of course one at a time. It should be good on fuel, quiet, light and portable and outputs sine wave power.
> 
> Tom


You will be happy with it! After i bought mine and tested it out, my mom had me order one for her. Of course we haven't had an extended outage to since i bought the thing. Let us know how you like it when it comes in

Tim


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## Sprinter (Nov 3, 2012)

BrotherBart said:


> Mine are gasoline. But over the years I have heard and read a lot about problems with propane generators starting in very cold weather. And fuel pressure problems when the tank is cold.


Just one comment about propane in cold weather.  We have a friend in a very cold climate with an expensive whole-house system  They have a large underground propane tank which prevents those problems.  Expensive, though, but they can afford it...  Personally, I gave up on the idea of propane for many reasons and just keep my gas fresh by rotating stored gas through my cars every few months.   It is possible to do it right, though.


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## basod (Nov 3, 2012)

I'm still kicking myself in the rear for turning down an Onan deisel out a fifth-wheel camper.
Buddy of mine parked it to live permanently wired and said "you can have it"
It was heavy and in a tight spot to remove, and didn't have my truck.

Apparently he was on the lamb or something cause he dispeared from the face of the earth a couple months later - drawer came up short at his employers


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## MasterMech (Nov 4, 2012)

BIGDADDY said:


> Is your garage attached to your house? I heard in the news recently of a few people dying from carbon monoxide. I think it's smart that you open the garage door a foot but I don't think it's recommended to run it in doors. Sounds like you are doing fine.


 
Garage is indeed attached to the house but the genset exhaust is plumbed outside (could be done better, I need to get on that.  I didn't do the install.).  Also the garage floor is 3 ft lower than the house so with the 16ft overhead door open I think we're good.   I would love to pour a pad behind my shed (noisy in the garage) and build a small generator enclosure but that's going to be a lot of time and $$ to rewire and the wife has other priorities.


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## BIGDADDY (Nov 4, 2012)

MasterMech said:


> Garage is indeed attached to the house but the genset exhaust is plumbed outside (could be done better, I need to get on that.  I didn't do the install.).  Also the garage floor is 3 ft lower than the house so with the 16ft overhead door open I think we're good.   I would love to pour a pad behind my shed (noisy in the garage) and build a small generator enclosure but that's going to be a lot of time and $$ to rewire and the wife has other priorities.




Well if it works why fix it huh


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