# Hardy KB 125 gasser, any input?



## jrod770 (Dec 27, 2014)

I am all over the place with trying to make a decision on what system to put in for the house.  I have been thinking indoor gasser located in the garage all along.  Then yesterday I stopped and talked to the local Hardy dealer.  He has a new KB 125, which is the EPA new phase 2 gasification unit, that is his floor model.  He is willing to sell it for a greatly reduced price, although it does have a large scratch on it, but cosmetics don't concern me.  It it brand new, has never been installed, and was just used in his showroom and at an expo he went to.  Anyhow, the price he gave me for this unit is less than the Varm that I was considering.  Also this is a complete unit, except for tubing and a heat exchanger for atop the furnace, no need for storage tanks and expansion tanks.  I am curious though as to how much this thing will consume as opposed to an indoor gasser. Does anyone have any experience, I have not been able to find any info yet, maybe because the units are new and not enough on the market yet.  This dealer I am talking to has yet to install one.  His claim is that the new unit will burn half of what the old unit burns and that the new unit will burn less than my current Clayton furnace in my basement.  What are your thoughts???


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## Fred61 (Dec 27, 2014)

Are you ready to be the first one? Is he selling the floor model of the unit that has generated no interest and will not be offering it going forward as part of his lineup?


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## Tennman (Dec 27, 2014)

Was planning on a Hardy before I found this site. All the Hardy owners I spoke with loved their boilers, had them for a lot of years, but commented on burning a lot of wood. Lots of Hardy's in our area and the company seems to have an excellent reputation, but sorry, nothing else to add.


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## jrod770 (Dec 27, 2014)

Tennman said:


> Was planning on a Hardy before I found this site. All the Hardy owners I spoke with loved their boilers, had them for a lot of years, but commented on burning a lot of wood. Lots of Hardy's in our area and the company seems to have an excellent reputation, but sorry, nothing else to add.



This is the same thing I am hearing.  However, a couple of people are telling me that the new gasser will use half of the wood that the current boiler uses.  If this is true, that's going to put it very close to the wood consumption of most of the indoor gassers here.  I would probably be able to install the Hardy gasser for $2-3,000 cheaper than an indoor gasser, but, I don't want to increase my wood consumption dramatically.  I was hoping to keep my usage close to the 5-7 cords I use now, or use less.


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## Tennman (Dec 27, 2014)

I'd make the decision based on that $2-3k spread over a 10-15year boiler lifetime. If I had known my wife and I would enjoy running the boiler, I'd have purchased a higher end design. But for the money hard to beat the BioMass. Varms have an excellent reputation with a number of owners here who will be glad to give their opinion. Take your time. The Hardy is U.S. made and may be a great unit and deal.


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## woodsmaster (Dec 28, 2014)

Personally I believe any unit without storage is going to use more wood than one with properly insulated storage. how much more would only be a guess. I like the convince of having my unit indoors for loading and maintenance, but different strokes for different folks. I'd also be a little worried to be the first to have that design. what if there is a design flaw that hasn't been realized. You may have to live with this unit for 15 or 20 years so a little more money may be worth it for something proven, then again maybe the new Hardy is the cats meow ?


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## Tennman (Dec 28, 2014)

BTW, The Hardy operators around me don't appear to be concerned about seasoned wood. Probably a big part of why they burn so much.


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## jrod770 (Dec 28, 2014)

Tennman said:


> BTW, The Hardy operators around me don't appear to be concerned about seasoned wood. Probably a big part of why they burn so much.


Yes, I talked to, and looked at, 2 Hardy's in the past couple of days.  Both similar houses, but 1 guy goes through 17 cords of wet wood and the other goes through 8 cords of seasoned wood.  Both units are the old, smoke dragon design.


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## Farmer Cody (Feb 26, 2015)

Hey jrod. Just curious if you ended up with the kb125 and how you like it? Thanks a lot!


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## jrod770 (Feb 26, 2015)

Farmer Cody said:


> Hey jrod. Just curious if you ended up with the kb125 and how you like it? Thanks a lot!



PM sent


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## Mdswartzmiller (Dec 14, 2016)

Did any of you guys end up buying a hardy kb125? I just looked at one, and I'm thinking about buying a stove before next winter. 
Thanks


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## jrod770 (Dec 14, 2016)

Yes, I did, and couldn't be happier.  I went from a Clayton wood burning furnace in the basement to the Hardy 125' from the house in a boiler shed.  I use less wood with the Hardy than I did with the Clayton, and now I am also getting domestic hot water from it.  I'm probably 1 1/2-2 hrs south of you.  If you would be interested in seeing one in person, let me know.


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## StihlKicking (Dec 14, 2016)

jrod770 said:


> Yes, I did, and couldn't be happier.  I went from a Clayton wood burning furnace in the basement to the Hardy 125' from the house in a boiler shed.  I use less wood with the Hardy than I did with the Clayton, and now I am also getting domestic hot water from it.  I'm probably 1 1/2-2 hrs south of you.  If you would be interested in seeing one in person, let me know.



I completely understand that the dryer the wood the better. Just out of curiosity what's the highest moisture content you can get away with in the kb125?


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## jrod770 (Dec 15, 2016)

I don't know what the highest I can get away with, all my wood is 3 years ahead


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## hondaracer2oo4 (Dec 15, 2016)

StihlKicking said:


> I completely understand that the dryer the wood the better. Just out of curiosity what's the highest moisture content you can get away with in the kb125?



Why would you want to burn high moisture content wood? That is like asking the fuel oil dealer if they can sell you the oil with 70000 btu per gallon energy content for the same price as the fuel with 140000 btus.


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## Mdswartzmiller (Dec 15, 2016)

jrod770 said:


> Yes, I did, and couldn't be happier.  I went from a Clayton wood burning furnace in the basement to the Hardy 125' from the house in a boiler shed.  I use less wood with the Hardy than I did with the Clayton, and now I am also getting domestic hot water from it.  I'm probably 1 1/2-2 hrs south of you.  If you would be interested in seeing one in person, let me know.



How many square feet are you heating, how much wood do you burn a year, and what kinds of wood are you burning in it? I may want to look at it sometime. My local dealer has one but he doesn't know everything about it yet because people around me keep having old ones rebuilt because they love the old H2 &H4 models so much.


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## StihlKicking (Dec 15, 2016)

hondaracer2oo4 said:


> Why would you want to burn high moisture content wood? That is like asking the fuel oil dealer if they can sell you the oil with 70000 btu per gallon energy content for the same price as the fuel with 140000 btus.



I don't think I said anything about wanting to burn high moisture content wood. I was only curious at what moisture content did these boilers start having trouble. I have looked at the kb125 at the hardy factory but have never known anyone who uses one.


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## hondaracer2oo4 (Dec 15, 2016)

What drives your curiosity about moisture content? It would be like asking someone if they are able to burn 5 year old crappy gas in their lawn and how fast does it plug up the carburetor.


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## StihlKicking (Dec 15, 2016)

hondaracer2oo4 said:


> What drives your curiosity about moisture content? It would be like asking someone if they are able to burn 5 year old crappy gas in their lawn and how fast does it plug up the carburetor.



I have no experience with the hardy gassers. We all know that 25% wood is good and that anything less than 20% is great. What happens if you throw in two splits that are 30%? Is that enough to screw up the secondary burn? Is that enough to clog up your tubes? I ask these questions because i wish to learn the nature of these stoves. I would like to know just exactly how finicky or not they are. My original question had nothing to do with btu's available at certain moisture levels or specific fuel quality. It was simply what is the highest wood moisture content that this stove can operate properly on. You could have answered 20%, 25%, or 30% but instead you decided to school me on 5 year old gasoline and 70000 btu fuel oil.


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## hondaracer2oo4 (Dec 15, 2016)

I was probably being a dink about it, I just don't really understand why people ask about what happens when you throw wood in that is greater than 25% mc in a gasser. The green wood breaks down slower than <25% wood. Since it breaks down to coals slower it can't replenish the coal bed it is using to break the wood down into wood gas at a Reasonable rate. This replenishing of the coal bed gets worse as the mc gets higher because it is taking more and more of the coal bed to break down the green wood. A gasser will not gas unless the wood is being broken down by that coal bed. Once the coal bed is exhausted because of the rate it is breaking down the wood load it will stop gassing. Smaller splits of the green wood helps the coal bed break the wood down faster which helps.


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## StihlKicking (Dec 15, 2016)

hondaracer2oo4 said:


> I was probably being a dink about it, I just don't really understand why people ask about what happens when you throw wood in that is greater than 25% mc in a gasser. The green wood breaks down slower than <25% wood. Since it breaks down to coals slower it can't replenish the coal bed it is using to break the wood down into wood gas at a Reasonable rate. This replenishing of the coal bed gets worse as the mc gets higher because it is taking more and more of the coal bed to break down the green wood. A gasser will not gas unless the wood is being broken down by that coal bed. Once the coal bed is exhausted because of the rate it is breaking down the wood load it will stop gassing. Smaller splits of the green wood helps the coal bed break the wood down faster which helps.



Thank you, I have many years of experience running hardy heaters. I strive to maintain a wood supply with less than 25% MC 2 years ahead, however that doesn't mean that I don't put the occasional piece of wood in my heater that has more moisture than that. My heater is a h2 which is a completely different animal from the kb, however it still prefers low MC wood. I recognize that gasifiers are the future of OWB and when the time comes to replace my H2 I would like another hardy as I have a good relationship with the folks who build them. When the time comes to switch over to a gasser I just would like to avoid making as many gasser newbie mistakes as possible. Thank you for this answer, very informative.


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## Fred61 (Dec 15, 2016)

hondaracer2oo4 said:


> I was probably being a dink about it, I just don't really understand why people ask about what happens when you throw wood in that is greater than 25% mc in a gasser. The green wood breaks down slower than <25% wood. Since it breaks down to coals slower it can't replenish the coal bed it is using to break the wood down into wood gas at a Reasonable rate. This replenishing of the coal bed gets worse as the mc gets higher because it is taking more and more of the coal bed to break down the green wood. A gasser will not gas unless the wood is being broken down by that coal bed. Once the coal bed is exhausted because of the rate it is breaking down the wood load it will stop gassing. Smaller splits of the green wood helps the coal bed break the wood down faster which helps.



You did a hell of a good job explaining the process that I've been trying to explain for years but have never used the correct words. THANKS

Everyone should read this. Then perhaps when they go shopping for a boiler (any boiler) or furnace they will be able to delete the (will it burn green or wet wood??) off their list of requirements.


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## hondaracer2oo4 (Dec 15, 2016)

I ran a hardy h4 for 4 seasons before I bought my heatmaster g200 last year. The hardy had a long life and I believe it is still running by the guy who I sold it to. It was built in 1992. When it comes time to replace the h2 I would do a lot of researching people's experiences with their brands and models of gassers. The old conventionals were more or less all the same. Just a firebox surrounded by water and a chimney out of the top. They are performed more or less the same. The gassers do not perform all the same which is easily researched by just looking at the epa phase 2 hydronic boiler results on the eps page.


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## Mdswartzmiller (Dec 18, 2016)

jrod770 said:


> Yes, I did, and couldn't be happier.  I went from a Clayton wood burning furnace in the basement to the Hardy 125' from the house in a boiler shed.  I use less wood with the Hardy than I did with the Clayton, and now I am also getting domestic hot water from it.  I'm probably 1 1/2-2 hrs south of you.  If you would be interested in seeing one in person, let me know.



How many square feet are you heating, how much wood do you burn a year, and what kinds of wood are you burning in it? I may want to look at it sometime. My local dealer has one but he doesn't know everything about it yet because people around me keep having old ones rebuilt because they love the old H2 &H4 models so much. I reposted this on here because I wasn't sure if you seen it before. Thanks.


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## jrod770 (Dec 18, 2016)

Mdswartzmiller said:


> How many square feet are you heating, how much wood do you burn a year, and what kinds of wood are you burning in it? I may want to look at it sometime. My local dealer has one but he doesn't know everything about it yet because people around me keep having old ones rebuilt because they love the old H2 &H4 models so much. I reposted this on here because I wasn't sure if you seen it before. Thanks.


 
Sorry, it's been a busy weekend.  I'm heating about 3000 sq ft, and all of the domestic hot water for 4 people.  Last year I burned from September 1st to May 1st and burned about 6 cord.  That was a mix of ash, cherry, pine, walnut, and elm, all well below 25%.  With the KB, you still have to split everything small, 4-6" diameter and should be seasoned to below 25%.  Will it burn wet wood?  Yes.  Does it smoke more with wet wood? Yes.  Does it smoke with wood under 25%? no.  Would I buy another? Yes.


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## Mdswartzmiller (Dec 19, 2016)

jrod770 said:


> Sorry, it's been a busy weekend.  I'm heating about 3000 sq ft, and all of the domestic hot water for 4 people.  Last year I burned from September 1st to May 1st and burned about 6 cord.  That was a mix of ash, cherry, pine, walnut, and elm, all well below 25%.  With the KB, you still have to split everything small, 4-6" diameter and should be seasoned to below 25%.  Will it burn wet wood?  Yes.  Does it smoke more with wet wood? Yes.  Does it smoke with wood under 25%? no.  Would I buy another? Yes.



6 cord with 3000 square feet and domestic hot water is real good for as long as you had it burning. I only have about 1800 square feet and domestic hot water I want to heat. How often do you have to clean the ash out and clean the tabulators?


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## jrod770 (Dec 19, 2016)

Mdswartzmiller said:


> 6 cord with 3000 square feet and domestic hot water is real good for as long as you had it burning. I only have about 1800 square feet and domestic hot water I want to heat. How often do you have to clean the ash out and clean the tabulators?


I clean the turbulators every 1 1/2 to 2 weeks;.  Dirty job, but doesn't take to long.  I clean the ash pan every 3-4 days.  Another thing to keep in mind is that my house is only 7 years old and very tight, almost too tight.  2 x 6 exterior walls with r-16, and r-30 in attic, all wrapped up with tyvec on the outside.  So, once again, wood usage could depend a lot on home construction.


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## Mdswartzmiller (Dec 19, 2016)

jrod770 said:


> I clean the turbulators every 1 1/2 to 2 weeks;.  Dirty job, but doesn't take to long.  I clean the ash pan every 3-4 days.  Another thing to keep in mind is that my house is only 7 years old and very tight, almost too tight.  2 x 6 exterior walls with r-16, and r-30 in attic, all wrapped up with tyvec on the outside.  So, once again, wood usage could depend a lot on home construction.



Yes, very good point. Thanks for all of the info and I may be getting ahold of you with more questions. Just one more question for now, how often do you have to load it? Sometimes I'm gone for 10-12 hours for work.


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## jrod770 (Dec 19, 2016)

Keep in mind that this firebox is much smaller than that of the old H2's.  All of my splits are around 4", stuffed to the max, I can fit about 12 splits in it.  Today it was a high of about 22 here.  I loaded full at 7:30 this am, and when I reloaded at about 8:00, there was still a nice, small bed of coals.  So about 12 hrs in the 20's-30's, 13+ hrs above 40.


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