# Fireplace odor in the house, please for my sanity help me!



## sandman512 (Aug 10, 2010)

Hello everyone, yes fireplace dilemma in the summer. First, let me say is has been extremely HUMID here in the Northeast. Here's the deal.
1) 2 story home
2) 1st floor has fireplace
3) 2nd floor bedroom has fireplace. This room is above the room with the other fireplace.
4) House has an oil burner.
5) All have their own flues, all in one chimney stack.

PROBLEM:
On these hot/humid days and other days for that matter, the house can smell like fireplace(sooty smell for the lack of better words). The first floor(den) we can deal with it. The 2nd. floor fireplace is in a bedroom, and it smells there also. So, flue closed, no good. Bought and installed a draft pillow, can still smell. Ok, so now I bought and installed a damper on the top of the chimney. Just went into the room and I thought I smelled something. So, I open the fireplace and it was pretty warm in the "firebox". Still smell in the firebox. Thoughts, advice? THANKS!

PS: Sorry for the long post!


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## burntime (Aug 10, 2010)

If your home has negative presure from a bathroom fan, dryer, or water heater it can pull air down the chimney...


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## sandman512 (Aug 10, 2010)

I do have the central A/C going, but the problem will persist with out the A/C on.  Any solutions?


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## burntime (Aug 10, 2010)

Re-read my post, central air should not create a negative preasure.   The only way to resolve is a box of arm and hammer in the fireplace and a fresh air intake to the cold air return....


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## Todd (Aug 10, 2010)

I had a similar problem and installed a top damper like you but also installed air tight fireplace doors and never had that smell again. By the way, a good set of air tight doors can be spendy but will eliminate the smells and also help stop the cold down drafts in the colder months when the fireplace is not in use.


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## sandman512 (Aug 10, 2010)

burntime said:
			
		

> Re-read my post, central air should not create a negative preasure.   The only way to resolve is a box of arm and hammer in the fireplace and a fresh air intake to the cold air return....


Ok, how does one get fresh air intake to the cold air return... 



			
				Todd said:
			
		

> I had a similar problem and installed a top damper like you but also installed air tight fireplace doors and never had that smell again. By the way, a good set of air tight doors can be spendy but will eliminate the smells and also help stop the cold down drafts in the colder months when the fireplace is not in use.


I do have fireplace doors on there, they are from the big box store, so I don't know of that helps.  Where can I  get air tight ones?


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## ansehnlich1 (Aug 10, 2010)

I think you have a downward draft in the chimney(s) that is producing the odor. In order to truly eliminate the odor, you must eliminate the source of the downward draft. I feel near certain this is a situation of negative pressure. We like pictures. Could you post a picture of your home and it's chimneys? Maybe something is going on that a member here will be able to help you with.


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## sandman512 (Aug 10, 2010)

ansehnlich1 said:
			
		

> I think you have a downward draft in the chimney(s) that is producing the odor. In order to truly eliminate the odor, you must eliminate the source of the downward draft. I feel near certain this is a situation of negative pressure. We like pictures. Could you post a picture of your home and it's chimneys? Maybe something is going on that a member here will be able to help you with.


Will snap some pics and post them in a little while.  Just a quick question, even with a damper in place on the top, I can still have this problem?  THANKS!


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## sandman512 (Aug 10, 2010)

Here are some pics.  

Front view







Top of the chimney






Side view


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## Chettt (Aug 10, 2010)

Sandman I'm not sure this will help you but to stop odors I stuffed a plastic trash bag full of old clothes and pushed it tight into the stove pipe. It helped tremendously. Also cracking a window while the air conditioner is on will allow the return to pull fresh air through the window easier than through your stove. 

good luck.


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## sandman512 (Aug 10, 2010)

Chettt said:
			
		

> Sandman I'm not sure this will help you but to stop odors I stuffed a plastic trash bag full of old clothes and pushed it tight into the stove pipe. It helped tremendously. Also cracking a window while the air conditioner is on will allow the return to pull fresh air through the window easier than through your stove.
> 
> good luck.


Thanks for the reply, I actually bought a "fireplace pillow" and inflated it and stuffed it in there.  Today. I will be purchasing some baking soda and trying that.  Once again, thanks for the advice!


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## sandman512 (Aug 10, 2010)

I just want to add, there is a fan in the attic, not a big one by any means.  Also, just this afternoon I went into the room in question and it had that smell in there.  We did have the door closed,  I also spread some baking soda around as well as leaving two bowls of baking soda in there.  Thanks!


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## SteveKG (Aug 10, 2010)

In my fireplace [no doors but a tightly-closing damper], we get a smell if the fuel did not completely burn to ash, sometimes anyway. I thought about trying to build tightly-closing doors, but before I got around to it, I discovered that if I leave the damper open for a few hours the day after we burned, the smell is gone, obviously traveling up the chimney with some interior air. After a few hours, I can close the damper and be ok. I am talking about that odor of partially-burned firewood. And the amount of it left unburned can be only a couple handfuls and we get the odor. Or, we can. I've never built any doors, the technique with the damper is too easy and, yes, I know we are losing a bit of warm air up the chimney when I do this.


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## stoveguy2esw (Aug 10, 2010)

newer construction? looks like it (nice house BTW) negative pressure likely culprit try cracking a window closest to the fireplace (not much just an inch at most) and see if the symptom goes away. if it does look into a passive air exchanger like the condar ASV-90 (you can google it) nice product. anyway draft is generated by air inside the flue being warmer than the air outside , so naturally this draft is not going to be present (or at least it will be dramatically reduced) when its hot outside and cooler inside. couple that with negative pressure inside the house and you have downdrafting. by removing the negative pressure you take away part of the cause and usually the rest of the cause (IE low draft due to small temp differential in the flue to outdoors) is not signifigant enough to cause downdrafting.


hope this helps ya


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## sandman512 (Aug 10, 2010)

Thanks for the reply.  The house was actually built in 1968.  This particular house was built by a well known builder in this area.  Pretty solid house with all new windows, so this house is tight.  I will try the window trick and see what happens.  Will this affect the central A/C at all and the temp in the room(sons room)?  Thanks!


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## WARDNEAL (Aug 10, 2010)

Hi 

I had the exact flue and house setup. 

We had the problem of the smell. What we did was to put a fireplace pillow in the 2nd floor fireplace and changed out the main floor fireplace to wood burning insert.

It is defanitly a down draft problem.

We also had a sewer gas smell in the laundry room it was also a draft problem as when the drier was on it pulled sewer gas in thru the drain line of the washer. 

Fixed that problem with rags around the drain hose.

I would try two fireplace pillows or some other way to stuff the flues to stop the air flow.

Hope this helps.

Neal


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## sandman512 (Aug 10, 2010)

Neal,
Thanks for the reply.  I have a Flue damper on top and a pillow in there and today the smell was present, pretty strong I might say(humid here in Long Island, NY).  I now have the door open and the smell seems to be disappearing.


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## ansehnlich1 (Aug 10, 2010)

sandman512 said:
			
		

> I just want to add, there is a fan in the attic, not a big one by any means.  Also, just this afternoon I went into the room in question and it had that smell in there.  We did have the door closed,  I also spread some baking soda around as well as leaving two bowls of baking soda in there.  Thanks!



That fan in the attic may have more of an effect than you think. When that thing is exhausting air, it's pulling that same volume of air from somewhere, very well could be down that big chimney opening. Sometimes a house itself actually acts like a chimney, air rising through the interior of the home and venting out the top ya see. Maybe try and shut that fan down a few days to see what happens. Or think of sealing the door to the attic airtight so that fan can't pull air from the top floor of the home. 

Also, kitchen appliances, stove exhaust fans, dryers, etc. all move decent amounts of air, and that air comes from somewhere, often a chimney that's open. 

I think if you's seal the chimney at the top, tight, it would solve that problem, but ya gotta remember to open her up if/when you get ready to burn in the fall.


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## WARDNEAL (Aug 10, 2010)

Do you have a pillow in each fireplace? Not just the room that smells.  

Any item that blows air outside is drawing air in from somewere.

If the draft has started it will take an efort to reverse it or stop it.

Im cofident that you will find the best solution for you home just don't give up.

Neal


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## sandman512 (Aug 11, 2010)

Neal,
I have a pillow in the upstairs fireplace, not the bottom one since that is the one I will be using.  I should mention, when using the downstairs fireplace during burning season, there will be a hint of smoke/smell in the upstairs bedroom. THANKS!


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## webbie (Aug 11, 2010)

BTW, I don't like those caps which cover multiple flues - they tend to allow the smell and/or smoke from one flue to go down the other one!

See: http://extendacap.com/mia.html

As to the smell, there are lots of solutions which work partially or fully. Try the special (rutland) fireplace deodorant. Also, go to our QA section and search on chimney smell.


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## stoveguy2esw (Aug 11, 2010)

sandman512 said:
			
		

> Thanks for the reply.  The house was actually built in 1968.  This particular house was built by a well known builder in this area.  Pretty solid house with all new windows, so this house is tight.  I will try the window trick and see what happens.  Will this affect the central A/C at all and the temp in the room(sons room)?  Thanks!




if it does it will be negligable i suspect, BTW i missed the part about the attic fan , its going to intensify the problem until you get the pressure issue figured out. the Condar product i mentioned would be more controlllable and less invasive due to its filters. and no i do not sell them though i have recommended them to folks who have had draft issues in homes with non-OAK capable stoves with good results it may even help if you have startup issues with the fireplaces if you use them 

here's a link:  http://www.condar.com/asv_homegarden.html


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## sandman512 (Aug 11, 2010)

Webmaster said:
			
		

> BTW, I don't like those caps which cover multiple flues - they tend to allow the smell and/or smoke from one flue to go down the other one!
> 
> See: http://extendacap.com/mia.html
> 
> As to the smell, there are lots of solutions which work partially or fully. Try the special (rutland) fireplace deodorant. Also, go to our QA section and search on chimney smell.



So, can I remove the chimney cap and will that be safe.  Not that it matters, BUT when I bought the house, I actually installed the chimney cap thinking it was the appropriate thing ie: rain, animal. etc...  Thanks!

EDIT:  Any sponsors/recommendations to buy the deodorant?

EDIT EDIT:  Two more quick questions?
                  1) Would a picture of the crown on the chimney help?
                  2) Why is the odor present in the upstairs bedroom with the fireplace if that flue has a damper on top and a pillow on the bottom?
THANKS!


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## SteveKG (Aug 11, 2010)

WARDNEAL said:
			
		

> Hi
> 
> 
> 
> ...





At the risk of thread creep, let me quickly throw in  here that I helped a neighbor with laundry-room sewer gas. I am not a plumber, just handy. I found that there was no trap in the washing machine drain line, the standpipe the machine's drain hose hangs in. I cut the standpipe, added a $5 trap, problem solved. A retired plumber told me that it was more common than one would think that there is no trap on a washer drain. Some of them, he said, are enclosed in the wall and you have to tear open the drywall to add the trap. 

Weird. [Sorry in advance for the non-wood/stove/etc-posting.]


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## Sparkster (Aug 11, 2010)

I have a similar problem caused by the attic fan. The attic doesn't have adequate soffit venting, and only gable end louvers and no ridge vent. The fan pulls air down through the chimney, and up the many non-airtight recessed lights. 
My solution was the bottom of a plastic bucket that just fits in the chimney top opening for the off season.


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## sandman512 (Aug 11, 2010)

Just an update on the situation.  This morning, nice temps. here, no humidity.  I go out for a nice lunch, go home and BINGO.  The room stinks like fireplace.  It is hotter and more humid here and the ATTIC EXHAUST FAN IS ON.  I should note, it is a small round exhaust fan.  So, since the fan is hardwired, I disconnect it and will see what happens tomorrow.  What is extremely confusing to me is that there is a damper on the flue at the roof and a pillow inside, yet the the room stinks.  So, let's see what happens?  Also, any other advice is appreciated!


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## billb3 (Aug 12, 2010)

The firebox is going to smell whether the chimney is blocked or not. 
If the  sooty smell isn't driven up the chimney it is going to spill out into the room.
Even with glass doors.


If you've got water coming in or sweat coming down the chimney the smell will be much worse.
Sweat or rain water probably oozes by a pillow.

Does your chimney have a smooth clay liner where you are putting the pillow ?
If it is  brick and mortar joints you do not have a very good seal with the pillow.
any negative pressure and the make-up air will be going right by the pillow.


Any way to  place a lit candle (or incense) in front of the firplace and watch the flame and rising smoke/heat for air movement as fans turn on and off in the house ?
AC, kitchen, bath exhaust, doors opening and closing, etc.


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## sandman512 (Aug 14, 2010)

Update to an update.  So, since the attic fan is hardwired, I disconnected it.  The next day, NO smell.  Ok, I'm feeling pretty good.  That day, my fireplace deodorant get delivered.  Put the jar in there and still no smell.  So, it appears(knock on wood here) that at least for now I have addressed the problem.  NOW, do I need to do anything about all the heat in the attic?  Once again, thanks.  Oh yeah, Billb3, the pillow is going in where there are brick and mortar joints.  Thanks!


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## burntime (Aug 14, 2010)

You found your sorce of negative preasure...


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## sandman512 (Aug 14, 2010)

To be honest, I did not think a small attic exhaust fan could do this.


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## burntime (Aug 14, 2010)

I went thru the same thing...  That fan is something like 100 plus cubic feet, when you really sit back and think about it thats a lot of air to make up.  Its gonna do it the easiest way possible.  I would add some soffit vents and hook it back up again.


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## LLigetfa (Aug 14, 2010)

An attic has to have more air intake than it has exhaust so that a negative pressure situation cannot happen.  You need to put in soffit vents to let in more air.

The same with the living space.  There needs to be adequate make-up air to satisfy the draw.  There also needs to be a better seal between the living space and attic.  Weatherstrip the hatch and seal around plumbing stacks and holes drilled for wiring.  The air that is drwan out of the living space now will be heat loss later.


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## doubledip (Aug 14, 2010)

Defiantly a negative air pressure problem. Here is an article for reference, product and contact info. Cheers!

http://www.masterhandyman.com/askglenndetails.cfm?ID=1990


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## ansehnlich1 (Aug 15, 2010)

LLigetfa said:
			
		

> An attic has to have more air intake than it has exhaust so that a negative pressure situation cannot happen.  You need to put in soffit vents to let in more air.
> 
> The same with the living space.  There needs to be adequate make-up air to satisfy the draw.  There also needs to be a better seal between the living space and attic.  Weatherstrip the hatch and seal around plumbing stacks and holes drilled for wiring.  The air that is drwan out of the living space now will be heat loss later.



+1


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## iceman (Aug 15, 2010)

I have a bad negative pressure problem with no clue what to do !


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## flyingpig (Aug 15, 2010)

sandman512 said:
			
		

> To be honest, I did not think a small attic exhaust fan could do this.



I have the same problem too and now my ventilation fan in the furnished attic room (70 CFM) is off. Most of the time all the smell is gone except when we run the dryer or vent in the kitchen/bath without an opened window.

Cheers....Som


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## flyingpig (Aug 18, 2010)

I've just got another trick from my stove dealer. He got the same model as I do and sometime has the same odor problem. He said his wife open the top damper, then put a candle inside the stove and close the door. Heat from the candle is enough to create an up draft. I've just tried it today with the tea light candle and it seems to work. I lit one around 4:00 PM today and at 8:30PM it still going.  If it works in long term, this is going to be a very cheap solution. Give it a shot!!

Thank you John for a good trick!!

Cheers......Som


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## madison (Aug 18, 2010)

Late entry in the thread, previous home, same problem:

1.  Have not seen any info on when the chimney was last cleaned, may help to reduce the amount of creasote smell.  Also after cleaning, burn drier wood.
2.  Used to have the same issues with a previous home, with a three story masonry chimney and a basement fireplace:  Damper Cap did not help too much, high quality sealing glass doors helped a little bit, changed to a gas insert (wrong forum for that advice)....  No more smell.

I believe the issue could be compared to a "temperature inversion", (as long as there are no contributing exhaust fans, leaky attic access doors etc), and the cool, mainly stagnant, air in the chimney sinks .... and stinks up the room.  Burning a large number of candles in our fireplace in the summer did help reduce the amount of sinking stinking air.

The B-vent gas insert did seal the existing chimney from the room and no more smell...


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## sandman512 (Aug 23, 2010)

Update to an update.  You get the the idea.  Today, while at work, my wife informs me of heavy smell in the room again?  The weather was cloudy, a little windy and occasional rain.  Now remember, no more attic fan.  She thinks, she may have been running the dryer when this occurred.  The drier is on the first floor offset with this room on the second floor.  The dryer is NOT underneath the fireplace, but off set.  Once again, I ask THOUGHTS?  THANKS!


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