# Wood Shed Advice



## Longknife (Oct 22, 2018)

I've been meaning to build a new wood shed and managed to get good start on it this summer.  It's seems simple enough, but hard to find the time to dedicate to it.

I'm regretting the direction I went as, although it's cost me almost nothing using reclaimed and salvaged materials, it's been a lot of work figuring it out as I went (I'm a lot more used to conventional structures/building methods) and I'm not certain I'll be happy with it rustic nature in the end.  I just think it would have been much easier and nicer in the end to just pour a slab and build a conventional structure.

Regardless, I'm committed now and my main concern moving forward is what I will do with the floor.  As it was built in a bit of a hollow that portions of my yard slope to, I build up the base a foot or so with clear stone to facilitate drainage.  I DON'T want to pile wood on a raw stone base though and am not sure what to do with it.


I have access to hardwood pallets and had considered that with plywood over top (I have a stack of reclaimed pressure treated plywood) but I'm concerned about critters making themselves at home in the space that would create.  I've also thought about laying the plywood on 2x4 sleepers on their side to minimize the space underneath it, but I think I'll still have the same problem.  I've considered just laying the plywood on the stone?  One thing I've considered is adding crushed stone/GA over top of the clear stone to add a more compacted/less permeable layer?  Clear stone is a pain to drive on, walk, etc as it stays "loose".

Whatever I do, I'll probably keep 1/3 or so of the shed with a raw stone base as I will just be parking my wood trailer there (and misc storage).


I'll be finishing the walls with 1x10 rough cut pine.  I haven't decided yet how much of a gap I'll leave between them (considering only a 1/4" and whatever it opens up to after the wood dries out) and/or if I'll do battens to cover the gaps (probably not).  The front openings will be roll up steel barrel doors to keep the weather out in the winter but they will spent the drying season open.  I plan on putting two 3'x8' flip up doors on the back wall to let the air run through the shed during the drying season as well.


I will actually putting in another lien of poles about 6-8' off the back and extend the roof line to give me extra storage/misc parking space, but I'm thinking that will have to wait until next year now.

Tin will hopefully be showing up this week for the roof.

I appreciate any advice on the floor....


----------



## Ashful (Oct 22, 2018)

I’ve been using pallets, and don’t mind the rabbits that like to nest under them.  Snakes and mice will use your shed, no matter what the floor, what other critters do you have?


----------



## Longknife (Oct 22, 2018)

The hound keeps most things away except for the chipmunks, mice and squirrels.  The squirrels being the main concern.  They (and the mice) had a habit of making themselves comfortable in my wood piles in the old shed that stood in the same spot.  I just don't want to create a haven for them with plywood covered pallets.

I could put plywood UNDER the pallets (my main concern is keep the mess out of the stone) which will slightly minimize the attraction I suppose.


----------



## SeanBB (Oct 22, 2018)

I would not use plywood at all. One good thing about stacking wood on pallets is that the gaps in the pallets allows plenty of airflow. Even if you put the plywood under the pallets I think the critters would rather sleep on plywood than stones.
Your wood shed is looking good so far.


----------



## Ashful (Oct 22, 2018)

SeanBB said:


> I would not use plywood at all. One good thing about stacking wood on pallets is that the gaps in the pallets allows plenty of airflow. Even if you put the plywood under the pallets I think the critters would rather sleep on plywood than stones.
> Your wood shed is looking good so far.



Ditto.


----------



## Woodsplitter67 (Oct 22, 2018)

I also have wood sheds. The openings in the back is a great idea and well worth the time putting together. My sides and backs are all removable on all the sheds. You will appreciate the reduction in seasoning time. As for the floor. You could do the pallets,  keeping the wood up will help with drying. Have you thought about just building wood racks and using racks in the shed, theres nothing wrong with that. Again they will also keep the wood off the ground and help with the drying process


----------



## Montanalocal (Oct 22, 2018)

This is kind of off the wall, but I had the thought of getting some sacks of cement and spreading it out several inches thick on the stones, stirring it around a bit, and watering it down with a garden hose.  I have done patching with pure cement, and it does harden up.


----------



## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Oct 22, 2018)

Longknife said:


> I've been meaning to build a new wood shed and managed to get good start on it this summer.  It's seems simple enough, but hard to find the time to dedicate to it.
> 
> I'm regretting the direction I went as, although it's cost me almost nothing using reclaimed and salvaged materials, it's been a lot of work figuring it out as I went (I'm a lot more used to conventional structures/building methods) and I'm not certain I'll be happy with it rustic nature in the end.  I just think it would have been much easier and nicer in the end to just pour a slab and build a conventional structure.
> 
> ...


That's a great shed.  And, awesome it was all reclaimed materials.  That's just how a woodshed is supposed to be.

Just throw those pallets down on your crushed stone and move on.  As others have said, no keeping critters out of a woodshed.  Just part of the charm.

As for keeping the stone clean, that's pretty hopeless, putting that plywood for that purpose verges on cuckoo.  If you want clean, pour a slab, then you can sweep or blow.  Or, also on the edge of cuckoo, every so often you could shovel the stone through a homemade rotary trommel to separate out the chaff that has accumulated.  

Show us how it looks after the tin is on the roof, please.


----------



## zig (Oct 22, 2018)

I just use pallets on gravel for the floor. Come to think of it, for the walls too. Your shed looks great.


----------



## Tar12 (Oct 22, 2018)

Its not to late to pour concrete...you already have it 3/4 formed up.A 3500 psi air/stone mix would work great.


----------



## weatherguy (Oct 22, 2018)

I'm going to be embarrassed to show a pic of mine when done. I really went simple, anythings better than tarps though.


----------



## Longknife (Oct 22, 2018)

Montanalocal said:


> This is kind of off the wall, but I had the thought of getting some sacks of cement and spreading it out several inches thick on the stones, stirring it around a bit, and watering it down with a garden hose.  I have done patching with pure cement, and it does harden up.


That's actually an interesting idea.


----------



## Longknife (Oct 22, 2018)

ED 3000 said:


> That's a great shed.  And, awesome it was all reclaimed materials.  That's just how a woodshed is supposed to be.
> 
> Just throw those pallets down on your crushed stone and move on.  As others have said, no keeping critters out of a woodshed.  Just part of the charm.
> 
> ...


Yeah, fair enough.


----------



## Longknife (Oct 22, 2018)

Tar12 said:


> Its not to late to pour concrete...you already have it 3/4 formed up.A 3500 psi air/stone mix would work great.


Yeah, my trouble is that it's too much of a compromise building to begin with and I hate to throw money at it when it should have been done differently from the start (perhaps).

I suppose I'll always have the option down the road.


----------



## ChuckTSI (Oct 28, 2018)

Ideally.. if you can get used old mill felts from paper mill, lay it down over the gravel and toss pallets on top.
I couldn't so I placed down landscape fabric over the gravel, then used pallets as the floor.   Every couple years I can pull the pallets out and shake out the fabric.

I have crappy pallets and sometimes nearly break my ankle going into it.


----------



## twd000 (Oct 29, 2018)

How are you guys unloading this type of shed with a roughly square footprint?  It seems that the driest wood (curing longest) will be at the back of the shed, rather than the front.  You want first-in, first-out, right?  Do you rotate front-to-back, or are you unloading an entire winter's worth of wood each year?  My stacks are two-rows wide out in the open and I write the date I filled it in marker so I know which stack is the oldest when it's time to bring in wood.


----------



## ChuckTSI (Oct 29, 2018)

This is only my second year heating with wood. Last year I just cut and put into the shed. I didn't have much of a choice back then. I thought I would only use 1 side/ year.  I was badly mistaken. I was only left with 1 face cord by the end of heating season. (granted.. it was -30 to -40 for almost a month straight last year).

Shed is 10 feet deep and 16ft wide. 6ft tall at the back, 11ft tall at the front. (Door height is 8ft)
Can fit 23 face cord in that shed. (7 Cords)

I am now trying to get 1 to 2 years ahead . This year I ordered double load of firewood (logs).
I get about 12 face cord / load. Let's just say.. I was sick of cutting/splitting/stacking wood by the end of  24 fc. Couldn't bear the thought of doing it 2 more times.

I am starting holz hausens next to the shed to dry next years lumber.





Left pile is an 11ft diameter and right pile is 9ft in diameter.
So next year I load the empty side of the shed with the holz hausen wood and then take the left over wood on the non empty side and put it in front. Then load the fully empty side with more holz hausen wood.
Then new splits into the holz hausen area.

I love the look of these stacks, BUT... annoying if you can't drive around them to toss wood to the truck.
I also hate the fact that this adds another 2 steps into the whole thing.  Bad enough you lift after cut, then to split. then to stack. but I will need to lift twice more to get it into shed. And you have to focus more on the pieces going into the stack ensuring they lean in.

I will just extend the shed with another 2 - 3 bays if this gets too tedious.


----------



## Dobish (Oct 29, 2018)

if you count in cords, its a lot less than face cords and doesn't get as monotonous 

Nice Holzhausens!


----------



## Ashful (Oct 29, 2018)

Very cool, @ChuckTSI.  I imagine that, ten thousands of years from now, some future archiologists will be arguing over exactly what took place on your lot.  What were these big wooden structures?  A monument to the sun god?  Do they align with the solstice?  Was a sacrificial alter?

That is, if the microplastics don’t get us all, first.


----------



## Sodbuster (Oct 30, 2018)

Longknife said:


> I've been meaning to build a new wood shed and managed to get good start on it this summer.  It's seems simple enough, but hard to find the time to dedicate to it.
> 
> I'm regretting the direction I went as, although it's cost me almost nothing using reclaimed and salvaged materials, it's been a lot of work figuring it out as I went (I'm a lot more used to conventional structures/building methods) and I'm not certain I'll be happy with it rustic nature in the end.  I just think it would have been much easier and nicer in the end to just pour a slab and build a conventional structure.
> 
> ...




Looks like you have a great start; for the record, I have a my firewood under a structure on raw crushed stone and have zero issues with that, concrete will cost you a fair amount, and I'm not sure what you would gain.


----------



## ChuckTSI (Oct 31, 2018)

Sodbuster said:


> Looks like you have a great start; for the record, I have a my firewood under a structure on raw crushed stone and have zero issues with that, concrete will cost you a fair amount, and I'm not sure what you would gain.



You will find over time that the bark and debris will accumulate into the stone, compost, an then you will get weeds. Eventually, it will be a mix of compost and stone. if you are mildly OCD, this may bug you


----------



## kennyp2339 (Oct 31, 2018)

ChuckTSI said:


> You will find over time that the bark and debris will accumulate into the stone, compost, an then you will get weeds. Eventually, it will be a mix of compost and stone. if you are mildly OCD, this may bug you


There's a member here that I jokingly refer to as the clean rock guy, anytime he's messing with his stacks he lays a tarp down to catch the debris.


----------



## Sodbuster (Oct 31, 2018)

It's been 5 years and minimal weeds so far. I did put blocking fabric underneath that may be helping with that. I had more weed when I stacked my wood on pallets.


----------



## FTG-05 (Oct 31, 2018)

Sodbuster said:


> It's been 5 years and minimal weeds so far. I did put blocking fabric underneath that may be helping with that. I had more weed when I stacked my wood on pallets.



Same here, have had no real issues with weeds.


----------



## weatherguy (Nov 1, 2018)

I put 10 inches of stone down and I still get weeds, best solution I found is to spray weed killer in the spring.


----------



## ChuckTSI (Nov 1, 2018)

weatherguy said:


> I put 10 inches of stone down and I still get weeds, best solution I found is to spray weed killer in the spring.



If you didn't put landscape fabric down before placing the stone, you will most likely still get more weeds than if you did. ever watch a plant push through paved driveway? It's amazing.


----------



## weatherguy (Nov 1, 2018)

ChuckTSI said:


> If you didn't put landscape fabric down before placing the stone, you will most likely still get more weeds than if you did. ever watch a plant push through paved driveway? It's amazing.
> 
> View attachment 232224
> 
> ...


I've used landscape fabric and still got weeds. Some will grow on a rock, spraying seems to be the best way.


----------



## BIGChrisNH (Nov 1, 2018)

Nice looking shed. I would say forget about keeping the stone clean as others above have said, but if you want to try I'd go for black landscaping fabric.


----------



## Chas0218 (Nov 1, 2018)

Longknife said:


> I've been meaning to build a new wood shed and managed to get good start on it this summer.  It's seems simple enough, but hard to find the time to dedicate to it.
> 
> I'm regretting the direction I went as, although it's cost me almost nothing using reclaimed and salvaged materials, it's been a lot of work figuring it out as I went (I'm a lot more used to conventional structures/building methods) and I'm not certain I'll be happy with it rustic nature in the end.  I just think it would have been much easier and nicer in the end to just pour a slab and build a conventional structure.
> 
> ...


Looks good. Did you put any plastic under the gravel? If not I would be inclined to put some down then pallets on top the moisture will make its way into bottom layers of wood and the pallets. Eventually the pallets will rot leaving behind nails, really the only down side to using pallets. Also around the edges add about 2 feet of hardware cloth along the bottom from your bottom board into the ground. This will help keep critters from digging out your stone and making homes. You doing metal on the sides? If you are make sure you get the rat guards to keep them mice from getting in on the raised edge of the seam, I think they also call it J channel or something similar.


----------



## MissMac (Nov 2, 2018)

kennyp2339 said:


> There's a member here that I jokingly refer to as the clean rock guy, anytime he's messing with his stacks he lays a tarp down to catch the debris.


i can't deny that i too had tarps down when i was processing my wood earlier this summer - killed the weeds in my driveway, and saved about 3 full garbage cans of chainsaw shavings from being pressed into the stones forever, not to mention all the #@!* bark that falls off the Pj...


----------



## Longknife (Dec 10, 2018)

Well, it's more or less finished for this year.  I'm still waiting on a friend to come over and help me install the roll up doors.  The fascia on the side doesn't look finished at the back end as I've decide Id'm going to put in another line of poles next year to hold another beam to extend the rafters out some more.  I won't enclose that extension of the roof, just something to park trailers, etc. under.  Also kind of why I only finished the back side in PT plywood and not the rough cut pine (plus the fact I put two 3x8 horizontal doors in that I will open during the warmer months to help get the breeze through the wood). No one ever really sees the backside anyway, especially once the foliage grows back in.  I may do battens over the spaces between the boards, but probably not.


Waiting to get the doors in before I actually put most of this year's wood in to.  It's sitting on covered hay wagons, so no rush.  I id put a few cord in.  I decide on laying out a few old tarps (like the ones in the openings) on the stone before putting the hardwood pallets down.  Not really the long term model, but I'm think now that I got the building up and it doesn't look half bad, it wouldn't cost that much to throw down 3 inches or so of cement.  We'll see.


Also hoping to a cedar log on an angle at the center of each section acting as faux supports for the front roof section.  That may be a next year thing too if the snow covers up my cedar log pile to the point I don't feel like digging through it too badly.


----------



## Sodbuster (Dec 10, 2018)

Longknife said:


> Well, it's more or less finished for this year.  I'm still waiting on a friend to come over and help me install the roll up doors.  The fascia on the side doesn't look finished at the back end as I've decide Id'm going to put in another line of poles next year to hold another beam to extend the rafters out some more.  I won't enclose that extension of the roof, just something to park trailers, etc. under.  Also kind of why I only finished the back side in PT plywood and not the rough cut pine (plus the fact I put two 3x8 horizontal doors in that I will open during the warmer months to help get the breeze through the wood). No one ever really sees the backside anyway, especially once the foliage grows back in.  I may do battens over the spaces between the boards, but probably not.
> 
> 
> Waiting to get the doors in before I actually put most of this year's wood in to.  It's sitting on covered hay wagons, so no rush.  I id put a few cord in.  I decide on laying out a few old tarps (like the ones in the openings) on the stone before putting the hardwood pallets down.  Not really the long term model, but I'm think now that I got the building up and it doesn't look half bad, it wouldn't cost that much to throw down 3 inches or so of cement.  We'll see.
> ...



I'd leave those roll up doors open 99% of the time maybe only close them for inclement weather. I have a two stall detached garage with a concrete floor,  that I used to store wood in, ran into a huge mold problem, firewood needs to breath and is always off putting moisture.


----------



## Longknife (Dec 10, 2018)

Sodbuster said:


> I'd leave those roll up doors open 99% of the time maybe only close them for inclement weather. I have a two stall detached garage with a concrete floor,  that I used to store wood in, ran into a huge mold problem, firewood needs to breath and is always off putting moisture.


I imagine they be mostly open, but given that the walls should breath half-decent, and the two large openings I put on the backside, I'm hoping Ican keep them closed if the visual isn't to my liking (it's basically right beside my house as you pull in).

You can see the back openings here.  They will swing up into the underside of the rafters once their extended.


----------



## Sodbuster (Dec 10, 2018)

Those back doors are a smart idea, just wanted to offer my experience, in hopes others wouldn't suffer the same problem as me.


----------



## Longknife (Dec 10, 2018)

Sodbuster said:


> Those back doors are a smart idea, just wanted to offer my experience, in hopes others wouldn't suffer the same problem as me.


It is something I will be keeping my eye on for sure.  Part of the motivation to build this was to handle the wood less and get enough in there that it has 2 summers to season.  I'm not convinced an oak or maple will season in there in 2 seasons though and I'm kind of resigned that I'll still have wood drying in piles and on hay wagons out in the wind and sun before moving it in.  We'll see.


----------



## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 11, 2018)

Longknife said:


> It is something I will be keeping my eye on for sure.  Part of the motivation to build this was to handle the wood less and get enough in there that it has 2 summers to season.  I'm not convinced an oak or maple will season in there in 2 seasons though and I'm kind of resigned that I'll still have wood drying in piles and on hay wagons out in the wind and sun before moving it in.  We'll see.



Your going to be fine. If your shed is oriented properly and you get your summer winds through there they will dry.. my splits are 18in in lenth. I have multiple rows and havent had any issues seasoning in my shed, so much so i now have 3.. .. 90% of my wood is oak.. your in good shape


----------



## EODMSgt (Dec 12, 2018)

I've been using this shed for about eight years and just put the bottom layer of wood right on the 3/4 stone. I did put the black landscaping paper down and have about 10 inches of stone for the base. I get one or two weeds in the spring at the front but otherwise I have never had an issue and can throw the bottom layer right in the stove with no issues. Once a bay has been emptied, I use a leaf blower to get rid of debris. 

I went with this roof style instead of the usual saltbox so I can access the wood from both the front and the back. That really cuts down on having to rotate stacks at the end of the burning season.


----------



## EODMSgt (Dec 12, 2018)

twd000 said:


> How are you guys unloading this type of shed with a roughly square footprint?  It seems that the driest wood (curing longest) will be at the back of the shed, rather than the front.  You want first-in, first-out, right?  Do you rotate front-to-back, or are you unloading an entire winter's worth of wood each year?  My stacks are two-rows wide out in the open and I write the date I filled it in marker so I know which stack is the oldest when it's time to bring in wood.



I guess it depends on how your shed is built. I built mine so I could access it from the front and the back so I wouldn't have to rotate stacks at the end of the season. If a bay still has wood in it at the end of the season. I just remember (or mark) where the seasoned wood ends and fill the bay up again with green wood. I can then access the seasoned wood from the opposite side.


----------



## Longknife (Dec 18, 2018)

Got it closed in with the doors for the winter.  I definitely like having the option of closing it up tight in the winter and the roll ups don't take up much space.  They were new,old stock and I had too improvise some hardware, but not bad for $200.  A few coats of tremclad in the spring should make them match.


----------



## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 18, 2018)

Longknife said:


> Got it closed in with the doors for the winter.  I definitely like having the option of closing it up tight in the winter and the roll ups don't take up much space.  They were new,old stock and I had too improvise some hardware, but not bad for $200.  A few coats of tremclad in the spring should make them match.
> 
> View attachment 236076



Looks good you should be proud..


----------



## Simonkenton (Dec 18, 2018)

Longknife said:


> Got it closed in with the doors for the winter.  I definitely like having the option of closing it up tight in the winter and the roll ups don't take up much space.  They were new,old stock and I had too improvise some hardware, but not bad for $200.  A few coats of tremclad in the spring should make them match.
> 
> View attachment 236076



This shed needs to be up off the ground, so that wind can blow beneath the wood floor and dry the place out.

Too late for this advice.  Maybe someone else will learn.


----------



## Longknife (Dec 18, 2018)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> Looks good you should be proud..


Thanks.

I'm pretty critical of some of the mistakes I made and as said previously, I probably would have gone another route, but I'm fairly happy with the end result that was cobbled together from (mostly) reclaimed and spare materials.


----------



## Longknife (Dec 18, 2018)

Simonkenton said:


> This shed needs to be up off the ground, so that wind can blow beneath the wood floor and dry the place out.
> 
> Too late for this advice.  Maybe someone else will learn.


I doesn't have a wood floor and I'm not certain I would ever build a shed that would need have an elevated floor system.  It might be "optimal" from a wood drying perspective, but there's too many drawbacks from my perspective.


----------



## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 19, 2018)

Longknife said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I'm pretty critical of some of the mistakes I made and as said previously, I probably would have gone another route, but I'm fairly happy with the end result that was cobbled together from (mostly) reclaimed and spare materials.



Im with you on the part of .. i could have done this different or i wish i would have built it that way. Eventually I will redo my sheds. I had to move one last year.. which took a beating... to position the green house my son wanted. My neighbor just finished his and i had him over a number of times and showed him what i would do different, and helped with the design of his. This is how we learn.. do it.. improve on it the next time.. your first one is a success


----------



## Simonkenton (Dec 19, 2018)

Here is my woodshed.  What is difficult about framing in a floor?  No harder than framing the walls.
Ground is moist so you need a vapor barrier or your wood will pick up moisture from the earth.

My woodshed has a 1 1/2 inch thick wooden floor.  Moisture evaporates from the wood and goes in to the air of the woodshed, and is then absorbed into the floor and evaporates through the floor.


----------



## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 19, 2018)

Simonkenton said:


> This shed needs to be up off the ground, so that wind can blow beneath the wood floor and dry the place out.
> 
> Too late for this advice.  Maybe someone else will learn.



This shed dose not need to be elevated his shed will be completely open with the doors both front and back there will be no drying issues in the shed whatsoever


----------



## MAD MARK (Dec 19, 2018)

Who the hell wants steps carrying wood. 

Some places cant be avoided (basements) but this isn't one of them.


----------



## MissMac (Dec 19, 2018)

Longknife said:


> Got it closed in with the doors for the winter.  I definitely like having the option of closing it up tight in the winter and the roll ups don't take up much space.  They were new,old stock and I had too improvise some hardware, but not bad for $200.  A few coats of tremclad in the spring should make them match.
> 
> View attachment 236076


That is a good looking shed right there.  Well done!


----------



## Longknife (Dec 19, 2018)

Simonkenton said:


> View attachment 236109
> 
> 
> Here is my woodshed.  What is difficult about framing in a floor?  No harder than framing the walls.
> ...


How difficult is it to frame a floor?  In my circumstances, far more trouble than it's worth.  I have approx. 12' x 22' feet of floor space which would require a significant investment in both lumber(for the beams, joists and decking), and time and effort to then build it.  In the end, what do I gain?  Aside from time and money, I would actually lose a lot of the utility of the shed as far as ease of use for wood and the ability to easily use it for things other than wood storage (I currently have my dump trailer and wood splitter parked in there until such time I build the extension and/or I require all the space for wood).  I currently have over a foot of clear stone between the wood and the earth, plus the pallets which will aid in air flow.  I have tarps under the pallets, but they are more to keep the stone clean than a moisture barrier.  I'm fairly certain that I will pour cement next summer since (as suggested by someone earlier), I essentially have it ready to pour cement with a base a forms.  A 3" pour of self-mixed cement will not be that costly.


----------



## wooduser (Dec 19, 2018)

From reading this thread I'd say that ALL of you guys deserve to be awarded the Paul Bunyan Medal for heroic woodsmanship! Lots of terrific ideas,  all of which seem to involve a lot of WORK!


----------



## Longknife (Sep 1, 2019)

Thought I'd post a little update:

While I wanted to do a cement floor in the shed this summer, I quickly realized I probably wouldn't have time (other priority projects) and I didn't want to handle my splits anymore than I had to, so they went right from the splitter into the shed this spring.

Having the doors open up on the back seems to give it great airflow and I'm pretty confident I'll be able to season no issues with most of the wood I deal with.  My cheapo moisture meter is showing most of the wood to be sub-10% MC at this point.

I painted one door so they somewhat match, but I'll have to get a few coats on the other.  I'll probably end up putting battens on the siding as the gaps don't seem to add much for airflow and I did have wasps trying to coming through them to set up shop.  I also think I'll come up with some kind of removable supports so I don't have to stack my ends, even though I don't mind doing it, but it would save on time. Squirrels are getting in, but I don't think there's much I can do about that. 

I've got close to 5 cord in there at the moment and I'll probably move more in soon, depending if I build the back extension before winter (to store the splitter, trailers, equipment, etc. to make room).  I usually burn a bunch right off my outdoor piles (my softer and/or more marginal wood) during shoulder season though and I've never burnt much more than 6 cord.


----------



## Ashful (Sep 2, 2019)

Nice shed, Longknife.

Now I need to solicit some advice.  Wetlands-adjacency restrictions prevent me from building any permanent structure on my present woodlot, and I don't really see another part of the property where I'd rather move it to, so my solution is to have non-permanent structures.  I'm telling myself this likely works better than any large shed, for my 30 cords of wood, since I can just continue stacking in the double-wide aisles I've been using:





I stack directly off the splitter, and then load it into my wagon right from the stack, to haul it up to the house when I use it:




But to get into some sort of structure that didn't always need to be rebuilt (I go thru a LOT of pallets), and get a roof better than a plastic tarp on the wood, I dreamed up this little rig:




My thinking was to build about 30 of these, and arrange them in three rows of ten each, but now I'm doubting this plan.  Problems I see are:

1.  Aligning several of these into contiguous rows is going to be a major PITA.  I had planned to place them on concrete piers or pavers, and one would share a pier with the adjacent unit, but still... getting them reasonably leveled and aligned is going to be a Herculean task.

2.  Every time i pull up old pallets, I find the piers have completely sunk into the ground under the thousands of pounds of weight I'm placing on them.  This is why, instead of just four piers in the four corners, I had planned to put five continuous piers under those five short timbers that run front to back on each unit.  I'm not sure how well this will mitigate sinking.

3.  I find that my pallets, even the treated ones, are totally trashed and rotten after just a few years.  This is likely related to the sinking piers, the pallets are always ending up in the ground.

Thoughts?  Maybe a gravel bed is a partial cure, but since the ground is not level, I will need to be very elevated in a few areas.  There will be some issues with keeping an elevated bed in place.




Thoughts?  The ergonimics of this system could work very well for me, and it may be the best way of escaping my zoning issue, so I'd really like to find a way to make this work.

Here's the first unit, temporarily in place, shown at the far-right end of the back row:


----------



## kennyp2339 (Sep 2, 2019)

@Ashful I'd build a hand full of those things and keep them close to the house and use them as your "current years supply" and let the other stuff season out in the stacks, rotating the piles as you fill them up, but I know your pretty particular of your wood and how you bring batches to the house in that big wagon, I'm just thinking of keeping the year on deck out of the moisture and close to the house for less fall / winter work.


----------



## Ashful (Sep 2, 2019)

kennyp2339 said:


> @Ashful I'd build a hand full of those things and keep them close to the house and use them as your "current years supply" and let the other stuff season out in the stacks, rotating the piles as you fill them up, but I know your pretty particular of your wood and how you bring batches to the house in that big wagon, I'm just thinking of keeping the year on deck out of the moisture and close to the house for less fall / winter work.


Oh believe me, I'm considering all options.  These darn things are gonna cost me $9k, if I build 30 of them, so anything is worth consideration.

But the thing pushing me toward just building enough to hold all 30 cords is my lack of free time.  Staging wood, and moving stacks, is very time consuming on this scale.  Time I just don't have, at this point in my life.

I would handle the build of these in production line form, I'm already working out the jigs and processes to get them built pretty darn fast in batches of three at a time.


----------



## Woodsplitter67 (Sep 2, 2019)

@Ashful if you dont mined me asking how much can your tractor lift.


----------



## Jazzberry (Sep 2, 2019)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> @Ashful if you dont mined me asking how much can your tractor lift.



I would make it with much more roof overhang and that center brace would be an x brace from top plate to bottom plate and screwed together at the x. If you don't want the thickness of double 2x4s dado them at the cross. Also being that small of a shed a flat sloped roof with rolled roofing would be much easier than building a shingled pitched roof.


----------



## Ashful (Sep 2, 2019)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> @Ashful if you dont mined me asking how much can your tractor lift.



Sure, it’s not that personal!  Will have to look it up, but it’s lighter than I’d need to lift much wood, if that’s what you’re thinking.


----------



## Jazzberry (Sep 2, 2019)

Ashful said:


> Sure, it’s not that personal!  Will have to look it up, but it’s lighter than I’d need to lift much wood, if that’s what you’re thinking.




Build them on 4x6 skids and you could drag them around.


----------



## walhondingnashua (Sep 3, 2019)

Jazzberry said:


> Build them on 4x6 skids and you could drag them around.



I agree.  Make less of them, but much bigger (maybe 8'x12') with a 7 or 8' roof.  It would be like the Amish made sheds that they deliver from a flatbed truck.  Just run a piece of pipe through the skids on both ends and you can drag them.  Less sinking and its not "permanent."


----------



## Sawset (Sep 3, 2019)

Define permanent structure.
I would be leaning toward the 4 x 12 or 8x12  by 7 or 8' high on skids also.  3cord each at 4x12, only need 3 or so for a year.  Metal roof goes on quick. Link them all in a row, and they still may not be considered permanent.


----------



## Chas0218 (Sep 3, 2019)

This is where the small running gear usually used for hay wagons would be perfect. Just get the ground somewhat level then they are easy to move. This might be a little pricey but would be able to be loaded pretty good.
https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_486971_486971


----------



## Ashful (Sep 3, 2019)

I like the bigger but fewer concept, let me give that some thought.   Maybe quadruple rows instead of double.  Dry time will be longer, esp with my all-oak diet.

I do use a mini hay wagon for moving the wood already, but I think it would be a poor choice for storing wood for drying.  That’s a lot of tires and running gear to maintain, per cord of wood stored, and a lot of weight sitting on four patches of dirt for three years of weathering.  They’re also not cheap!


----------



## Longknife (Sep 3, 2019)

Hmmm...

That's a tough one with a lot of variables to consider.  I would be reluctant to invest $9k into structures that in the end, the only benefit is some time/labour savings (and maybe better weather protection) and could potentially have a short lifespan like the pallets.

On the other hand, if we're taking about a $9k budget, you can get a little creative.

I've used hay wagons in the past, and although it was different conditions, $9k could maybe solve some of the problems you've cited with that route.

I used hay wagons for a number of years to do most of my seasoning.  If I was careful about how I stacked it (i.e. greenest/hardest on the outside rows) there wasn't much I couldn't season over a single summer where the wagons were parked on top of hill with a near constant breeze and sun from dawn till dusk.  

As the tires aged, or were swapped out for lower load rated automotive tires over the years, I started to jack the wagons up off the tires and set them down on large utility pole rounds.  I never had an issue with sinking/settling, however the wagons were either on well drained sandy soil, or on gravel.  If I was ambitious and/or had a nice set of tires I wanted to preserve, I'd pull them off and put them in the barn out of the sun.

Maye you could take part of that $9k and put down gravel like you mentioned to park wagons on?

Running gear is next to no maintenance, especially in this context.

Older, farm/hay wagons of the type I'm talking about come fairly cheap (used), although they are becoming less common as few farmers use anything this small, or hay wagons in general anymore (depending on your area).  I'm sure I could go out and find more than a few half-decent 8 ton hay wagons locally for WELL less that $1k ea. 

I tried various covering solutions over the years from nothing in the summer (tarp in the fall), tarp all season, sheets of tin, and when I finished with it last year, lengths of side walls from an above ground pool.  These rolled up fairly compactly and if you shaped your stack right, they kept the water out perfectly.  My father-in-law uses hay wagons and actually built permanent roofs for his.

In your case, I'd maybe narrow the deck somewhat?  Add built-in stack supports/roof?

Anyway, that's just the first solution that came to mind (as I'm familiar with it), but I'm sure there's other inventive ways that this egg could be cracked.

I've personally always wanted to maybe try out the IBC tote method since it seems like I could really cut down on the amount of times I handle each piece of wood.  Straight from my splitter into the IBC, never to be touched again until it's going into my house after carrying the IBC into my garage with the tractor.  That however will have to wait until I buy a new compact tractor as I doubt my current one has the loader capacity to carry a full IBC of hardwood, nor are pallet forks readily available for the non-quick attach loader (without modification).  Like you, my wood comes into the house by the small trailer full (although I used an even smaller trailer), and the idea of just firing up the tractor once a week to carry another IBC into the garage is appealing compared to the almost twice-weekly trip with a trailer (which I usually pull by hand since it's hardly worth firing up a diesel for in -30degree weather.


----------



## TradEddie (Sep 4, 2019)

Ashful, to get a little more storage per portable shed, you could try something like what I built, based on plans from another site.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...an-or-similar-plan.174786/page-2#post-2355886

If I were building it again, I'd move the posts all the way to the corners, and instead of side to side floorboards, I'd have all 2x4's or 2x6's running front to rear, with not much gap. Maybe a central 2x6 joist too. As I noted in the thread above, as originally built per plans online, the 2x4's sagged considerably, and now I've added several more and now it looks much more secure.

Mine sits on six concrete pavers, 14x14? It can be moved by two people, although its not the weight but the balancing that is the problem. It can even be dragged by one person if you don't care about the ground getting plowed up. I forget the cost now, but it was less than the online estimate because I didn't use roofing compound on plywood, I'd guess now it was about $200. Moving the posts to the corners would let each one hold a cord.

Alternatively, try a few Holtzhausen, certainly no permit issues. They have amazing capacity, are interesting and challenging to build and look really good when done right. (There's a reason I won't post a pic of mine!).

TE


----------



## Jazzberry (Sep 4, 2019)

TradEddie said:


> It can even be dragged by one person if you don't care about the ground getting plowed up.




Man you guys must have some serious kahunas in SE PA


----------



## Ashful (Sep 4, 2019)

Jazzberry said:


> Man you guys must have some serious kahunas in SE PA


I suspect he meant empty!


----------



## Chas0218 (Sep 10, 2019)

Ashful said:


> I like the bigger but fewer concept, let me give that some thought.   Maybe quadruple rows instead of double.  Dry time will be longer, esp with my all-oak diet.
> 
> I do use a mini hay wagon for moving the wood already, but I think it would be a poor choice for storing wood for drying.  That’s a lot of tires and running gear to maintain, per cord of wood stored, and a lot of weight sitting on four patches of dirt for three years of weathering.  They’re also not cheap!
> 
> View attachment 247132


I was thinking just for wood that will be used that season. You're right about lots of them for 3 years or more seasoned. How much do you fit on 1 load pictured?


----------



## Ashful (Sep 10, 2019)

Chas0218 said:


> How much do you fit on 1 load pictured?


Almost exactly 1 cord.  It’s 4’ x 8’ footprint, and mounded to about 4.5’ in the middle, tapering to 3.5’ at the ends.  This lasts me about 3 weeks, on my normal burning schedule, and I use about 9-10 per year.


----------



## Longknife (Nov 11, 2019)

Well, with half a foot of snow or snow on the way earlier today, I figured I'd get the last of my piles into the shed.  I like picking away at them in the fall until the snow hits, plus I need the space in the wood shed.  With about 5 1/2 cord in the shed, and nearly one burnt, I should be good for the winter.  I have 3-4 cord that could also be burnt this winter in needed still in protected piles, but this was the last of the stuff I "plan to burn".

One thing I'm not a fan of with this shed is the stack height. The ceiling on the high end is 9+ feet which is a pain, even with a stool or small ladder. I wanted the 7' doors though and I'll be damned if the space will go to waste.


----------



## Longknife (Nov 11, 2019)

I also need to plan my out my stack rotation/fill plan as I buried a bunch of butternut and Manitoba maple shoulder season wood, which obviously, I'd rather be burning now that the large ash/elm/maple splits I pile in front of it.


----------

