# Non EPA stoves still sold



## schlot (Nov 9, 2012)

Just wondering about new non-epa stoves still being sold today. I have a cheap non-epa stove I picked up at the end of year sale a couple years ago, from a fleet-farm type store. It works good and was very inexpensive, but was kind of surprised it could be sold still. I know certain states have stronger regulations on stove sales, but I would have guessed everything had to be EPA approved for sale. I looked at the stoves the store has displayed and there are some non-EPA stoves again this year, so I know it wasn't a fluke.

Can someone enlighten me on regulations on stove sales?


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## pen (Nov 9, 2012)

Many of those stoves are basically "freestanding fireplaces". Fireplaces don't have to be epa certified, so they found a loophole that if they limited the air adjustment on a box so that the air can't be adjusted so low that it smoulders they could get the unit an exempt status.

Why anyone would want one is beyond me. Several companies have stopped making them and simply sell EPA stuff anymore. As people become educated on the advantages of an EPA stove, the market for the 35:1 stoves (air ratio) is dwindling.

Here's more info if you are interested https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/wiki/EPA_Exempt_Stoves

pen


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## schlot (Nov 9, 2012)

pen said:


> Many of those stoves are basically "freestanding fireplaces". Fireplaces don't have to be epa certified, so they found a loophole that if they limited the air adjustment on a box so that the air can't be adjusted so low that it smoulders they could call it a free standing fireplace and get through.
> 
> Why anyone would want one is beyond me. Several companies have stopped making them and simply sell EPA stuff anymore. As people become educated on the advantages of an EPA stove, the market for the 35:1 stoves (air ratio) is dwindling.
> 
> ...


 
Thanks...speaking as to why I bought, that's simple, it was dirt cheap. Not knowing if I would really use it much I kept my investment down. I think it was roughly $200 for the stove. I really like the features and it's solid, but now that I really enjoy wood heat I plan on stepping up the efficiency and get an EPA stove in the future. This one will head out to the workshop eventually.


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## denn (Nov 10, 2012)

pen said:


> Why anyone would want one is beyond me


Because people are brainwashed into it
If I had to do over I would have bought a WonderCoal or WonderWood type stove.
No baby seting a stove 2 hrs. a day, just throw the wood in close the door and walk away.
Yes you need to cut a little more wood and clean the chim a couple times a year.
But for 2 hrs. a day you can cut a lot of wood and clean a lot of chimneys.
A guy at work also bought a Englander NC-30 and hated it, it wouldn't heat his basement.
He took the baffle and sec. tubes out and now it doesn't have any trouble heating his basement.


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## pen (Nov 10, 2012)

denn said:


> Because people are brainwashed into it
> If I had to do over I would have bought a WonderCoal or WonderWood type stove.
> No baby seting a stove 2 hrs. a day, just throw the wood in close the door and walk away.
> Yes you need to cut a little more wood and clean the chim a couple times a year.
> ...


 
I heat my place from the basement (built 1962) with a nc-30 and certainly don't spend 2 hours a day babysitting it. Went from burning 5.5 to 6 cord a year in a good fisher stove to 4 - 4.5 with this unit. Chimney stays cleaner, stove burns longer, house stays a more even heat, and I get a nice big glass window to watch things with.

I can (and have) had this stove top up over 900 degrees. Anymore than that, and things turn into a light bulb which is territory no stove should move into. Same was true of the fisher.

If I can do it, your buddy could too if his setup is correct. His problem is either inadequate draft, or fuel that is not seasoned as well as it should be. Simple as that.

pen


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## pen (Nov 10, 2012)

To add:

Friend bought an Englander 30 (epa) and a 12 (non-epa) the same weekend in a spring where a local Home Depot was moving out the winter stock of goods.

He installed the 30 in the mainfloor of his house, and the 12 in his garage. Mid winter, he commented to me that he thought the 12 would heat his house better than that Q@#%!@#$ EPA stove in the house. He's burned wood in many pre-epa appliances same as I and was pissed. After talking to him, I convinced him to buy another 3 foot of chimney for the stove. Also this was his first year in that house and the wood he was burning was only cut and split the spring before (had June, July, Aug, Sept, only to dry).

Come next winter, he had to take back the bad he had to say about the 30. Once he had wood that was truly seasoned (cut, split and stacked for over a year), and a tall enough chimney, he cooked and his perspective on burning wood changed considerably.

pen


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## denn (Nov 11, 2012)

I don't know how high his chim is, he has a new home. It's on the back side of the house with a walk out basement
I recommended the 30NC from what was said on this forum, then purchased one myself.
Thats been acouple years and he still upset.

I hate it. Iv'e burned wood/coal most of my life (I'm 62).
I'm used to burning stove/boiler/furnaces that have grates and that I designed and built.
So I guess i'm spoiled.... load it, close the door and walk away.
I just don't feel like building any more but I need a furnace in the barn, about 140K to150K BTU.
Will see if I get it built this winter.


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