# 60mpg Hummer



## begreen (Jul 30, 2011)

This fellow has done some remarkable vehicle conversions. One was enough to get the attention of the engineers at GM. We need more minds like him! But in smaller packages too please.

http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/120/motorhead-messiah.html?page=0,0

and the company:
http://www.hlineconversion.com/


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## BrotherBart (Jul 30, 2011)

After the commute you just pull up next to the house and use it as a co-gen plant and light the house. Neighbors might get a little miffed at the turbine noise though.


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## BrotherBart (Jul 30, 2011)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> We need more minds like him! But in smaller packages too please.



Waiting for fossil to come along and ask why the guy's mind needs to be in a smaller package.  :cheese:


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## fossil (Jul 31, 2011)

BrotherBart said:
			
		

> BeGreen said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Most people wouldn't know what to do with the whole thing.   :smirk:


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## Corey (Jul 31, 2011)

Hate to do it to a fellow Kansan, but I call BS.  As with most outlandish MPG claims, there is a side note or they are just outright fake.   With this I suspect the side note is something like "If you start with fully charged batteries and drive 15 mph, they will take you 50 miles...then you fire up the turbine, burn a gallon of gas to go the other 10"  Presto - "60mpg".  But I don't think day in, day out driving you're going to load up 10 gallons of fuel and drive 600 miles without outside electrical input.


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## begreen (Jul 31, 2011)

Heck, the fact that his daily driving Hummer is getting 25mpg instead of 8 is a vast improvement. I'm not into the mega horsepower conversions and don't need to beat a Lamborghini off the line, but I respect that he is challenging automotive industry assumptions and coming up with real working solutions for large vehicles. If they prove to be durable they could make a big difference. Think UPS fleets.


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## jimbom (Jul 31, 2011)

I was an intern at the IH Research and Engineering Center on County Line Road in Hinsdale, IL when this

http://www.antiquefarm.org/mainsite/museum/turbine_tractor.html

turbine machine was in the building.  I never touched it, but was told the concept failed because of high fuel consumption, noise, and expense.  I saw it and heard it run.  Never did see it plow or operate in the fields.  I didn't think the noise was that bad, but the higher frequencies disturbed the livestock or something.

The same tractor was on display in the Smithsonian when we took the boys to DC a few years ago.  The younger couldn't grasp that I was that old.  Something I knew about was already in the museum.  He was floored.

These small turbines have been around for decades.  Marine tac air used turbine driven air compressors to start their F4s in Vietnam.  That was noisy.

Good on this guy in Kansas.  Hope he finds something that can be a commercial success.  Many others have tried and failed.


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## Danno77 (Jul 31, 2011)

I dunno what a 60mpg hummer is , but I do know what a 60mph hummer is. I 100% endorse the latter product.


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## CTYank (Jul 31, 2011)

In the linked article, they mention pulling up to a restaurant, and filling up with used deep-frier grease.
My turn to call BS.
I'd pay to see the result when you don't process the waste oil properly- a non-trivial pursuit, with filtering, transesterification etc. Then, say the outside temps drop, and the triglycerides in the lines congeal.


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## blades (Jul 31, 2011)

Been a lot of claims for  high mileage conversions that I have seen or heard about over the past 60 years. Some help a little most are bogus. Some were quashed by ?.  I also remember , I think it was in the late 60's or maybe 70's sometime one of the big 3 put together six turbine driven prototypes, which were on the road test vehicles. These were getting 2-3 times the mileage of conventional piston driven units of the day. Never made the production line just disappeared down the a dark hole. I think I heard that there were heat build up issues. I did see one in person at a show never heard or saw it run. Lot of plumbing under the hood. Any one fill in the blanks here?


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## begreen (Jul 31, 2011)

JimboM said:
			
		

> I was an intern at the IH Research and Engineering Center on County Line Road in Hinsdale, IL when this
> 
> http://www.antiquefarm.org/mainsite/museum/turbine_tractor.html
> 
> ...



Yes, I remember the Chrysler turbine car too had high fuel consumption. The difference here is that the turbine is not directly powering the vehicle. It is used in short bursts to run a large generator whose output charges a bank of super-capacitors. Note that this is not his regular driver which is a modified diesel. Why GM didn't make a diesel version of this vehicle is beyond me.


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## begreen (Jul 31, 2011)

CTYank said:
			
		

> In the linked article, they mention pulling up to a restaurant, and filling up with used deep-frier grease.
> My turn to call BS.
> I'd pay to see the result when you don't process the waste oil properly- a non-trivial pursuit, with filtering, transesterification etc. Then, say the outside temps drop, and the triglycerides in the lines congeal.



This is not a big issue when the temps are warm. I have a friend that has been running his old Mercedes wagon on filtered, used, vegetable oil when it is above about 40F. He has a good filtration system on the vehicle and a preheater setup. It's been running this way for years. He has a 3 way valve so that he can switch to regular diesel if it is cold out, then switch over to the veggie oil once the preheater has warmed up. This is in Mass.


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## Highbeam (Aug 1, 2011)

Decent article. Of course, converting a vehicle is generally very illegal. Mostly due to emissions regulations.

I liked the part about electric conversions.


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## Seasoned Oak (Aug 2, 2011)

35 years ago
My well driller had his pickup converted to a 4Cy turbo diesel. It had decent power and got about 30 MPG  He said.


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## Badfish740 (Aug 2, 2011)

CTYank said:
			
		

> In the linked article, they mention pulling up to a restaurant, and filling up with used deep-frier grease.
> My turn to call BS.
> I'd pay to see the result when you don't process the waste oil properly- a non-trivial pursuit, with filtering, transesterification etc. Then, say the outside temps drop, and the triglycerides in the lines congeal.



That's just author hyperbole-they mention that the turbine burns biodiesel before the line about filling up at a restaurant dumpster.  Properly made biodiesel with an anti-gel additive is as good as regular diesel in low temperatures.  That's not to say that its not feasible to burn SVO (straight vegetable oil) in a turbine-it would just require a fuel heating system to keep things flowing in the cold.  I've been burning SVO using a heated two tank system in my truck for three years now with no problems.  Each winter (I'm in NJ) since I installed the system we've had single digit temps.


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## Seasoned Oak (Aug 3, 2011)

CTYank said:
			
		

> In the linked article, they mention pulling up to a restaurant, and filling up with used deep-frier grease.
> My turn to call BS.
> I'd pay to see the result when you don't process the waste oil properly- a non-trivial pursuit, with filtering, transesterification etc. Then, say the outside temps drop, and the triglycerides in the lines congeal.


Partly true with a few steps in processing left out.


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## Highbeam (Aug 3, 2011)

Many folks burn straight vegetable oil in a diesel. You do not need to convert it to biodiesel. Pretty sure Mr. Diesel himself introduced the engine long long ago and it was running on, wait for it, straight peanut oil. 

That's not the point of the article. I have a harder time believing that you can get 60 mpg moving that vehicle with any fuel in a combustion engine. The aerodynamics of the hummer, the weight, and the known maximum possible efficiencies of a combustion engine make it all but impossible. 

It must be one of those stupid tricks like driving 50 miles on pure battery power and then 10 miles on one gallon of diesel and then claiming that you got 60 miles per gallon. A half truth.


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## begreen (Aug 3, 2011)

The approach is novel (turbine gen charging a bank of supercapacitors) and he doesn't come off as a egoist or bs artist. email him and ask.


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## Flatbedford (Aug 3, 2011)

There is a guy in the Northwest (forgot which state now) who installs Cummins 4BT 4 cylinder turbo diesels in all kinds of light trucks. His 1970 4x4 F250 gets around 30 mpg with this conversion. My 1970 F350 gets about 8 mpg with the factory V8. The diesel also puts out more torque and hp. There are better ways to do things.


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## Seasoned Oak (Aug 24, 2011)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> Heck, the fact that his daily driving Hummer is getting 25mpg instead of 8 is a vast improvement. I'm not into the mega horsepower conversions and don't need to beat a Lamborghini off the line, but I respect that he is challenging automotive industry assumptions and coming up with real working solutions for large vehicles. If they prove to be durable they could make a big difference. Think UPS fleets.



That 6.6 Duramax is a great engine,makes you wonder why GM which owns the 6.6 never thought of putting it in a hummer. They also have a great 4.5 small diesel they have yet to market which could return 30 MPG in a full sized pickup.
 truck. Instead they sell hummer to the chinese.


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## Badfish740 (Aug 24, 2011)

Highbeam said:
			
		

> It must be one of those stupid tricks like driving 50 miles on pure battery power and then 10 miles on one gallon of diesel and then claiming that you got 60 miles per gallon. A half truth.



I only start up and purge on diesel fuel, which only uses a few pints at most each time, once the engine and fuel is up to temperature I'm burning SVO unless I take a hard turn or the SVO pickup is otherwise starved, then the system switches back to diesel until the SVO pressure is restored.  Typically I get about 850 miles out a 60 gallon tank of SVO and depending on how many times I stop and start, the 38 gallon diesel tank doesn't need filling that often.  I once went 2,640 miles between diesel fillups, which, by using the logic in the above quote, meant I got 69.5 MPG!  :lol:


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## Highbeam (Aug 25, 2011)

Pretty good for a 7500# pickup!


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## Gary_602z (Aug 28, 2011)

This is better than veggie oil!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIwxG2K9wqs

Gary


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## karl (Aug 30, 2011)

Coming from an aviation background, I can tell you that turbines are not fuel efficient.  Their strong points are: an incredible amount of power from a small light weight package, increased reliability through less parts and less strain on those parts, and much longer longevity (The time between overhaul on a turbine is 3 to 4 times as long).

As for diesel, why haven't we switched to it yet?  The cost is about the same as gasoline and the efficiency is upwards of 40% more.

The answer to our problems can summed up in two words.  Weight and horsepower.

Go back to my youth, the 1980's.  

Honda crx hf  1800 lbs  68 horsepower  41 city 49 highway on a carburetor.
My car back then.  1984 Mustang SVO  2800 lbs 175 horsepower and a solid 25 MPG
Family cars back then.   3000-3400 lbs  200 horsepower tops and  high teens in town and mid 20's on the road.

Compare the CRX to the prius.  The CRX wins.
Sports cars.   3500 pounds and 400+ horsepower.
Today's family cars are usually Suvs  5000 plus pounds  upwards of 300 horespower

It doesn't take an engineer to figure this stuff out.


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## Seasoned Oak (Aug 31, 2011)

In considering a urban electric they have some nice electric motorcycles now but they are like $8000 and you are limited to good weather and warm climates so that leaves out about 8 months a year here in Pa. As far as a light weight 4 wheeled they do have street legal electric golf carts which could be covered like a jeep i suppose. But limited to streets of 35MPH or less.


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## lukem (Aug 31, 2011)

Flatbedford said:
			
		

> There is a guy in the Northwest (forgot which state now) who installs Cummins 4BT 4 cylinder turbo diesels in all kinds of light trucks. His 1970 4x4 F250 gets around 30 mpg with this conversion. My 1970 F350 gets about 8 mpg with the factory V8. The diesel also puts out more torque and hp. There are better ways to do things.



There's a local guy here that will put a Cummins (4BT or 12V 5.9) in about anything you want.  My buddy just had a 5.9 transplanted into a F350 when the 7.3 gave up the ghost.  I know a guy that has one of those Japanese mini-trucks and swapped out the stock engine with a 3 cyl Kubota...not sure if it even gets 60 MPG.


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## ihookem (Sep 6, 2011)

The date sais Nov. 1, 2007. If it was a good idea it would be in cars by now Especially with gas around 3.75 and 4 bucks for diesel. The only way I can see is using small diesels in small cars like Pontiac Salstice and small Toyota mr2 cars. Get a deisel with no emissions, high compression and get 60mpg easy. Jettas get 49 mpg so most likely a real small car might get even 70 mpg. Then you are talking mpg. Nice looking cars like the Salstice, people would buy. Not some stupid looking "smart" car that proves you are a dork.


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## Seasoned Oak (Sep 6, 2011)

ditto on the smart car ,those things look like a death trap that was already pre shrunk.


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