# OWB versus new indoor furnace



## spitfire557 (Dec 28, 2020)

Hello all,

Looking for opinions on a new stove purchase. My current setup is an Englander 28-3500 add on which is 15+ years old and past it's prime. We live in a 1960's rancher with mediocre insulation.

I have nearly unlimited access to firewood and an OWB has been on my wishlist for 2 years now. I've gotten a few quotes from various manufacturers ranging from $7-$12k. I have no neighbors to worry about and keeping the fire outside of our home is a huge plus to my wife and I. I also appreciate that the pre-EPA OWB's can burn unseasoned wood if necessary.

However, after reading around and recently seeing a post about the new Drolet Heat Commander, I'm beginning to wonder if that wouldn't be a better option. I like the fact that the furnace would be capable of long 12 hour burns, and is much more efficient than any OWB on the market. If I went this route, I'd also replace our Class A chimney as it's also nearing the end of it's life. All said and done, I suspect I'd have about $4k into this setup.

So - what's your thoughts on OWB versus modern indoor furnace?


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## brenndatomu (Dec 28, 2020)

Indoor furnace vs old school OWB...no contest, furnace every time....however, the newer Heatmaster OWB's are pretty slick...whole lot more $ though...


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## andym (Dec 28, 2020)

spitfire557 said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Looking for opinions on a new stove purchase. My current setup is an Englander 28-3500 add on which is 15+ years old and past it's prime. We live in a 1960's rancher with mediocre insulation.
> 
> ...


Are you needing heat in any other building? That would be one determining factor. An OWB allows you to set the thermostat and keep a steady temp. Also allows heating your domestic hot water. The new EPA boilers are pretty efficient and will probably handle slightly higher moisture content than a wood furnace. Do you have a central furnace that you can install a heat exchanger in? If you go this route research your underground piping carefully.

An indoor furnace gives you a little better efficiency, but greater swings in temp (not all bad). Indoor means you dont need to dress up to go load it. If you go with a Drolet you get a glass door. Are you set up to handle bringing in fire wood without a lot of work or mess? Is your existing ductwork large enough to handle a new furnace? It really all comes down to preference.


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## Case1030 (Dec 28, 2020)

If your ok with the wood and ash inside with small temperature swings in your house, a wood furnace is the way to go (kumma or drolet HC).

The outdoor down draft wood boilers definitely have some good benefits. I just bought a 1 year old used heatmaster g100 and like it so far. My wood consumption is similar to, if not slightly better than the Drolet tundra2 which is good.

Now if I were to buy a new boiler, I would have bought a Polar G-series boiler. After talking to a few people and looking at the specs I believe it is a better choice all around with many benefits.

To be fair I also looked at the central boiler downdraft boiler and I have heard enough to not want to try it. They might have good warranty/bells and whistles, but the build quality and efficiency is just not there.


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## brenndatomu (Dec 28, 2020)

Case1030 said:


> central boiler


IMO, CB was stuck in "old school" mode so long that they were passed up by better designs...the ole "keep up, or get outta the way"
They burnt a lot of bridges when they quit honoring their door warranty too...


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## spitfire557 (Dec 28, 2020)

andym said:


> Are you needing heat in any other building? That would be one determining factor. An OWB allows you to set the thermostat and keep a steady temp. Also allows heating your domestic hot water. The new EPA boilers are pretty efficient and will probably handle slightly higher moisture content than a wood furnace. Do you have a central furnace that you can install a heat exchanger in? If you go this route research your underground piping carefully.
> 
> An indoor furnace gives you a little better efficiency, but greater swings in temp (not all bad). Indoor means you dont need to dress up to go load it. If you go with a Drolet you get a glass door. Are you set up to handle bringing in fire wood without a lot of work or mess? Is your existing ductwork large enough to handle a new furnace? It really all comes down to preference.



I have a 1,500 sq ft garage that could *possibly* be heated down the road but no plans for that currently. And if totally necessary, I have a Jotul in storage that I could use to heat the garage.

My current setup includes a central furnace which I could easily add a heat exchanger to. My current setup also includes a wood chute so getting wood into the basement is not an issue. As for the ductwork, I'm really not sure where to begin with that. A lot of our ductwork is flexible insulated duct and I suspect could/should be replaced.


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## spitfire557 (Dec 28, 2020)

Case1030 said:


> If your ok with the wood and ash inside with small temperature swings in your house, a wood furnace is the way to go (kumma or drolet HC).
> 
> The outdoor down draft wood boilers definitely have some good benefits. I just bought a 1 year old used heatmaster g100 and like it so far. My wood consumption is similar to, if not slightly better than the Drolet tundra2 which is good.
> 
> ...



I'm torn. My biggest gripe with the OWB is the 10-15 year lifespan. I feel like if I'm spending $10-12k on something, it should last longer than that. If I could find a one or two year old used model, I'd probably jump right on it, but I've yet to see one posted online.


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## brenndatomu (Dec 28, 2020)

spitfire557 said:


> As for the ductwork, I'm really not sure where to begin with that. A lot of our ductwork is flexible insulated duct and I suspect could/should be replaced.


Yup, that's a non starter with wood heat...


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## Case1030 (Dec 28, 2020)

spitfire557 said:


> I'm torn. My biggest gripe with the OWB is the 10-15 year lifespan. I feel like if I'm spending $10-12k on something, it should last longer than that. If I could find a one or two year old used model, I'd probably jump right on it, but I've yet to see one posted online.



I agree the upfront cost is an issue. You will have to weigh your options. Price out both boiler and furnace (ducting, chimney, underground piping) installed with addon builds aswell keep in mind pros and cons of fire outside. (Insurance, mess, wood outside, loading in cold temps). You are also able to do infloor in your future or current buildings, DHW, and hot tub/pool.

Both the heatmaster and Polar G series can be installed indoors/garage, some food for thought if you decided to wait before making a decision.


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## E Yoder (Dec 29, 2020)

I could like several comments but I'll say there's a lot of good advice here. It's a comparison of too very different approaches to burning wood.


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## Eureka (Dec 29, 2020)

I can’t put a price on the peace of mind knowing that if there is a malfunction with my unit, or oversight by me, that my house won’t burn down.


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## maple1 (Dec 29, 2020)

spitfire557 said:


> I have a 1,500 sq ft garage that could *possibly* be heated down the road but no plans for that currently. And if totally necessary, I have a Jotul in storage that I could use to heat the garage.
> 
> My current setup includes a central furnace which I could easily add a heat exchanger to. My current setup also includes a wood chute so getting wood into the basement is not an issue. As for the ductwork, I'm really not sure where to begin with that. A lot of our ductwork is flexible insulated duct and I suspect could/should be replaced.



Another possibility is an indoor boiler in the garage and storage in your basement. But wood fires in 'garages' are quite often an issue with insurance companies. 

All kinds of things to consider, no one easy answer.


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## brenndatomu (Dec 29, 2020)

Eureka said:


> I can’t put a price on the peace of mind knowing that if there is a malfunction with my unit, or oversight by me, that my house won’t burn down.


IMO, that's not really a rational fear if you burn dry wood and your install was done per manufacturer recommendations/code/best practice...even if you forget to latch the door, if everything was done right, there maybe damage to stove/chimney, but no house fire.


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## sloeffle (Dec 29, 2020)

If money wasn't an object I'd go the OWB route or an indoor boiler with storage. I've had a wood burning furnace for the last 10 years, and dealing with the mess ( ash, bugs, wood chips, etc ) inside of my basement does get a little old by March. The house also seems a lot dustier when I am running the wood furnace too. If money is an object I'd get a HC or a Kuuma. With proper maintenance I'd expect both an OWB and a wood burning furnace to last at least 15 - 20 years. I'm sure @E Yoder has seen properly maintained OWB's older than 10 years old.


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## brenndatomu (Dec 29, 2020)

sloeffle said:


> dealing with the mess ( ash, bugs, wood chips, etc ) inside of my basement does get a little old by March. The house also seems a lot dustier when I am running the wood furnace too.


Do you store wood inside? I keep hearing people talk about the mess...I don't keep wood in the house (its in attached garage, which is same level as basement) and I don't have that much mess...there is a bit more dust, not much though, but I'm pretty careful when raking coals, loading, and the ash pan gets emptied in the garage.


sloeffle said:


> With proper maintenance I'd expect both an OWB and a wood burning furnace to last at least 15 - 20 years. I'm sure @E Yoder has seen properly maintained OWB's older than 10 years old.


Kuuma has 25 year warranty, and they claim to be building them to last 30-40 years.
I know my dad's Central Boiler has got to be at least 20 years old...I can't even imagine how much wood that thing has eaten...and the clouds of smoke...it very well may be responsible for 1* of local climate change all by itself!


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## spitfire557 (Dec 29, 2020)

I appreciate all of the responses! I'm still torn and not quite sure what to do. I may explore the option of indoor furnace in the garage / storage in the basement just to educate myself. Anyone have any links or videos that will explain this setup in simple terms?


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## laynes69 (Dec 29, 2020)

I know OWB's have changed, but I know of 2 people (personal friends) that burn a cord of wood a week. One wasnt even heating his hot water, but used it for a small room in his garage and home.  I have an indoor woodfurnace and unfortunately I've gone to bed with the door unlatched, or kept the damper propped open and there's never been an issue. As long as you follow all recommended clearances or more, it will be okay. For me it's a no brainers, but I wouldn't be against a batch burner and storage.


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## Gearhead660 (Dec 29, 2020)

spitfire557 said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Looking for opinions on a new stove purchase. My current setup is an Englander 28-3500 add on which is 15+ years old and past it's prime. We live in a 1960's rancher with mediocre insulation.
> 
> ...


One thing I would do is spend a little on more insulation and air sealing.  Would pay back for years with the reduced fuel needed to heat the home.


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## sloeffle (Dec 29, 2020)

brenndatomu said:


> Do you store wood inside? I keep hearing people talk about the mess...I don't keep wood in the house (its in attached garage, which is same level as basement) and I don't have that much mess...there is a bit more dust, not much though, but I'm pretty careful when raking coals, loading, and the ash pan gets emptied in the garage.


Yep, I bring my wood in via metal tote.







A few years ago I created this thread about it.



brenndatomu said:


> Kuuma has 25 year warranty, and they claim to be building them to last 30-40 years.
> I know my dad's Central Boiler has got to be at least 20 years old...I can't even imagine how much wood that thing has eaten...and the clouds of smoke...it very well may be responsible for 1* of local climate change all by itself!


I didn't realize the warranty on the Kuuma was that long. That's good to know when I'm shopping for my next wood furnace.  I have a friend who has a Hardy that is about that old too. His Hardy has also contributed immensely to climate change.


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## spitfire557 (Dec 29, 2020)

Gearhead660 said:


> One thing I would do is spend a little on more insulation and air sealing.  Would pay back for years with the reduced fuel needed to heat the home.



Agreed, and that process has already begun.


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## salecker (Dec 29, 2020)

spitfire557 said:


> I'm torn. My biggest gripe with the OWB is the 10-15 year lifespan. I feel like if I'm spending $10-12k on something, it should last longer than that. If I could find a one or two year old used model, I'd probably jump right on it, but I've yet to see one posted online.


Econoburns have a 25 year warranty on their units.Mine is going on 10 years with no signs of it having any issues
You should do more reading...
Burning unseasoned wood should not even be a consideration when looking at furnaces or boilers.
I found this site when i thought i knew what i was going to buy.
Thankfully i spent a few months reading on this site learning,otherwise i would have spent thousands of dollars for a system that would not have worked like the one i have.I am willing to bet that the water heater i would have bought and the crapy lines would have made my life miserable in the winter.Plus cutting all the extra wood that a crappy system would have used.
 Read and ask a lot of questions before you commit.


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## spitfire557 (Dec 29, 2020)

salecker said:


> Econoburns have a 25 year warranty on their units.Mine is going on 10 years with no signs of it having any issues
> You should do more reading...
> Burning unseasoned wood should not even be a consideration when looking at furnaces or boilers.
> I found this site when i thought i knew what i was going to buy.
> ...



I don't intend to burn unseasoned wood, but I like the fact that pre-EPA stoves don't require sub 20% splits.


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## brenndatomu (Dec 29, 2020)

spitfire557 said:


> I don't intend to burn unseasoned wood, but I like the fact that pre-EPA stoves don't require sub 20% splits.


So which is it? Two very different statements there.
And just FYI Kuuma doesn't require sub 20% wood...they claim 18-28% is ideal...although from my personal  experience, 20% and down still heats better.


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## brenndatomu (Dec 29, 2020)

Gearhead660 said:


> One thing I would do is spend a little on more insulation and air sealing.  Would pay back for years with the reduced fuel needed to heat the home.


24/7/365


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## andym (Dec 29, 2020)

brenndatomu said:


> So which is it? Two very different statements there.


Both. Sometimes a higher MC split gets mixed in. Also if someone else loads it for you while on vacation and they grab from the wrong pile etc.


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## brenndatomu (Dec 29, 2020)

sloeffle said:


> I didn't realize the warranty on the Kuuma was that long


Yup...my Yukon had a 30 year on it though too...was 1985 model, still had 3 years left on it when I got it in 2012...it made it to 30, but I did have to weld a stainless patch on the HX the last season I ran it...the newer ones had SS HX from new, but I wasn't about to spend $7-800 on it since I knew something major was about to happen... different furnace, or upgrade the Yukon with a 2020 kit (those never materialized)


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## andym (Dec 29, 2020)

One of the reasons I decided against getting a boiler of any kind was that I knew I would later talk myself into adding radiant floor heat on the main level and panel rads on the second floor, etc. I knew the possibility of spending thousands down the road in those kinds of upgrades would only add to the cost of having 'premium' wood heat. Getting a wood furnace was cheaper initially and (almost) eliminated that temptation. 
Indoor gasifier with storage will definitely cost you more upfront but is the ultimate way to go in my opinion.


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## brenndatomu (Dec 29, 2020)

andym said:


> Both. Sometimes a higher MC split gets mixed in. Also if someone else loads it for you while on vacation and they grab from the wrong pile etc.


Sounds like a poor reason to deal with all the other headaches that come with doing the day to day with a smoke dragon...JMHO (but one that comes from experience...as in having owned/used 8 different units in the last 12 years...plus helping feed dads OWB sometimes too)


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## E Yoder (Dec 29, 2020)

sloeffle said:


> I'm sure @E Yoder has seen properly maintained OWB's older than 10 years old.


All the time, especially stainless models.


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## Eureka (Dec 29, 2020)

brenndatomu said:


> IMO, that's not really a rational fear if you burn dry wood and your install was done per manufacturer recommendations/code/best practice...even if you forget to latch the door, if everything was done right, there maybe damage to stove/chimney, but no house fire.


I’m a rational person and don’t live in fear one bit, but all it takes is one misplaced ember, hot coal out of the ash bucket, connecter failure, etc.  We all have bad days.  Homes are a tinder box and I’ve repaired or rebuilt several on insurance jobs that had everything wood burning related done right, but they burnt for one reason or another; often a simple mistake or equipment failure.
I use my Kozy Heat stove regularly to warm up the living room, but I’m home and very careful. 
I really appreciate the ‘set it and forget it’ routine I have where I load the Heatmaster outside (in it’s own little shed) on the way out of the driveway. I sweep up my crumbs on the floor, shut the door, and go to work or whatever for the day. 
You’re not wrong, but I think it’s fair to say there’s value in an outdoor, or outbuilding setup. People with tough weekday work schedules, like what I used to have, might like the flexibility of load and go, without so much worry if you were a little sloppy on the way out.


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## brenndatomu (Dec 29, 2020)

There was a fellow on another forum whos dad's house burnt down because the OWB blew sparks onto the massive wood pile...torched everything for a distance...moral of the story, anything can happen, nothing is foolproof...heck, your cell phone battery could blow up and burn the place down, meanwhile the OWB chugs away happily...in the end, I guess everybody has to do the research, and then go with what's best for them and their situation...


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## brenndatomu (Dec 29, 2020)

andym said:


> Indoor gasifier with storage will definitely cost you more upfront but is the ultimate way to go in my opinion.


Agreed. If money is no object, then this is the Cadillac setup IMO...so sweet.


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## Eureka (Dec 30, 2020)

brenndatomu said:


> There was a fellow on another forum whos dad's house burnt down because the OWB blew sparks onto the massive wood pile...torched everything for a distance...moral of the story, anything can happen, nothing is foolproof...heck, your cell phone battery could blow up and burn the place down, meanwhile the OWB chugs away happily...in the end, I guess everybody has to do the research, and then go with what's best for them and their situation...


I think I saw that story with pictures.  OWBs are very popular here and several have burned down in the same way.  I’ve seen some real fugly looking homemade and patched together OWBs around here, that’s for sure.  Same goes for wood stove chimneys.

A coworker told me about how he had the fire department over to put out a fire in the woods behind his house.  He dumped his hot OWB ashes in the woods...  That same winter, an electrician working for us burnt most of his basement and barely saved the house.  He had a brand new EPA stove, chimney, and huge stone hearth area just commissioned.  He scooped ashes into his open metal can and dropped a coal off into a boot by the basement door on the way out and went to work.  Neighbor saved it with extinguishers and a hose.

I suppose that like anything, idiots gonna idiot.


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## salecker (Dec 30, 2020)

brenndatomu said:


> Agreed. If money is no object, then this is the Cadillac setup IMO...so sweet.


Plus if it's in it;s own building even sweeter...
My building is 125ft from my house. It is my little oasis any time i want to work on a project i have a warm building to work on it.
I have zero carbon-monoxide producing units in my living space,which i consider a plus as well.
Zero issues with smoke roll out,don't care it's in it's own building.
Zero issues with bugs,fly ash,dirt,bark,smell and a bunch of other issues of having a wood burning appliance in your home.
I don't have fire insurance,live remote log house. I figure my system has paid for itself just in the savings of insurance.I would be paying in excess of 10k a year probably closer to 15k to insure my house.
Even when it's -40 and i have to make the walk to the boiler building i have no regrets,


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## E Yoder (Dec 30, 2020)

This is from the job I was on today. Woodshed burned completely flat on top of a old obsolete wood boiler.  We replaced it with the unit outside away from the fuel. 
I'm a big fan of wood boilers but fire is something to respect. I know you guys know this but you cannot get careless.


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## Eureka (Dec 30, 2020)

E Yoder said:


> This is from the job I was on today. Woodshed burned completely flat on top of a old obsolete wood boiler.  We replaced it with the unit outside away from the fuel.
> I'm a big fan of wood boilers but fire is something to respect. I know you guys know this but you cannot get careless.


Looks like they have nicely seasoned firewood now


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## E Yoder (Dec 30, 2020)

Except the fire dept dumped a truckload of water on it.


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## spitfire557 (Dec 31, 2020)

Again, I thank everyone for the replies. I’m still scratching my head and deciding what I want to do. Obviously more research is in order.

My gut feeling is still leaning towards an OWB. It’s what I’ve had my mind set on for a few years now, but reading about how far indoor furnaces have come along has made me re-think it. I guess the biggest perk of the OWB for me is having the fire away from the house. We have a newborn in our home now and our current stove is directly below her room in the basement, which has always bothered my wife. I know that it’s a safe setup, but convincing the wife of that is sometimes difficult.

@eyoder do you have any recommendations on brands or models for OWB? I’ve consulted with a local Wood Master dealer and unfortunately they can only sell me the EPA approved Cleanfire model. There’s some loop holes that can be used to get my hands on a 4400 but not sure I’m willing to do that. I’ve also shopped Mahoning stoves, two of the guys down the road run them and have for years, but their warranty is far from appealing.


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## SpaceBus (Dec 31, 2020)

Why don't you want a clean burning appliance? I would think the low level air pollution would be much worse for your child than living above a wood stove if those are the options.


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## brenndatomu (Dec 31, 2020)

HeatMasterSS
					

The HeatMasterSS G Series is widely recognized as THE outdoor furnace of the industry. See why customers choose this wood burning furnace!




					heatmasterss.com


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## spitfire557 (Dec 31, 2020)

SpaceBus said:


> Why don't you want a clean burning appliance? I would think the low level air pollution would be much worse for your child than living above a wood stove if those are the options.



I am open to that option. I like that they are more efficient but do not like the higher price tag. Although, the more I drive by houses that have traditional stoves, the less I like the idea of having a smoke dragon.

The Wood Master Cleanfire is a re-badged E-Classic, which has proven to be a reliable stove. It has a stainless firebox and a decent 25 year warranty. I hear a lot of people complain about having to send in a water sample annually but I do not think that’s a big deal. I tend to have our tap water tested for bacteria bi-annually anyway for nothing but peace of mind so what’s another yearly water sample.

The quote I received for everything needed (Cleanfire 500, insulated PEX, HX, plate exchanger for hot water, pump, etc) was about $12k.


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## spitfire557 (Dec 31, 2020)

brenndatomu said:


> HeatMasterSS
> 
> 
> The HeatMasterSS G Series is widely recognized as THE outdoor furnace of the industry. See why customers choose this wood burning furnace!
> ...



Looks like MSRP on the G4000 is $8,995 compared to $10,170 for the Wood Master. I’ll have to see if there’s any dealers around and see if I can lay eyes on one of these.

The G4000 firebox and water capacity is significantly smaller. Not sure how that’d play out for burn times.


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## SpaceBus (Dec 31, 2020)

If I were interested in an OWB it would have to be a Heatmaster G series gasifier. Elsewise I would be doing an indoor downdraft gasser with storage. I personally don't like forced air, but the new Drolet HC and Kuuma VF100 are both great units.


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## salecker (Dec 31, 2020)

My Econoburn is an outside unit i put inside a building.
The reason was the unit was in the Yukon already,and at the time i didn't know that i would get my building finished before i needed to start using the boiler.The only diffeance between the indoor and outsoor unit is extra insulation and a metal shed like enclosure. I considered the extra insulation a plus.


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## brenndatomu (Dec 31, 2020)

SpaceBus said:


> I personally don't like forced air


Have you ever had a forced air wood furnace? I don't care for forced air fossil fuel furnaces much either...but the constant heat of the wood fire is a game changer, a little warm air blowing all the time...you don't have the hot/cold feel to the house like you do with a furnace that runs only so many minutes per hour...and having the furnace in the basement helps keep the floors from being cold too...which like I said earlier, if I were going hydronic, the only way I would do it would be radiant floor heat, (downside $$) if you are just putting a HX in your fossil fuel furnace you will still have the hot/cold like a fossil fuel furnace (maybe slightly less since the HX stays warm...maybe, depending on your plumbing/control scheme...


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## SpaceBus (Dec 31, 2020)

brenndatomu said:


> Have you ever had a forced air wood furnace? I don't care for forced air fossil fuel furnaces much either...but the constant heat of the wood fire is a game changer, a little warm air blowing all the time...you don't have the hot/cold feel to the house like you do with a furnace that runs only so many minutes per hour...and having the furnace in the basement helps keep the floors from being cold too...which like I said earlier, if I were going hydronic, the only way I would do it would be radiant floor heat, (downside $$) if you are just putting a HX in your fossil fuel furnace you will still have the hot/cold like a fossil fuel furnace (maybe slightly less since the HX stays warm...maybe, depending on your plumbing/control scheme...


I would personally go for HE panel rads and baseboard heating units for our house, but if building from scratch definitely radiant floor. My wife and I just don't like dry hot air blowing around the house and prefer the gentle thermal loop caused by the radiant woodstove. Even using the heavily shielded cookstove for heat is dubious at times, the house could read 75 df+ but my wife will still be cold. Yet she is warm when the house is 66 df and running the cast iron Morso.


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## brenndatomu (Dec 31, 2020)

SpaceBus said:


> My wife and I just don't like dry hot air blowing around the house and prefer the gentle thermal loop caused by the radiant woodstove


I get that, but most wood furnaces that are designed to have the blower running almost all the time (the better 2 that are currently available) move low CFM and you really don't notice any air movement...and as with any type of heat, you need to control your humidity in the house...


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## sloeffle (Dec 31, 2020)

I think a lot of it has to do with the climate that you live in. I've only been in one or two houses in Ohio that do not use forced air as their primary heat source. Both of those houses were pole barns that people live in and use radiant floor heat in the concrete. Our summers are too humid in this part of the country to not have  A/C ( forced air ) in the summer.  I have a relatives in the northeast and they all have boilers for heat and then have a separate furnace for A/C. When I was in Germany as a kid, none of the houses had A/C and they used radiators hooked to a boiler for heat. My dad said that is changing too because their summers are getting much warmer.

In an ideal world I think we'd all love to have a high efficiency gasser with 1k gallons of storage and radiant floor heating. Unfortunately, not many of use get to live in that ideal world.


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## spitfire557 (Dec 31, 2020)

Just spoke to the local Heatmaster dealer and he says that for my situation (1,800sq ft moderately insulated rancher), the G4000 would be more than sufficient. He is currently running that stove at his house (4,100sq ft worth) and has gotten 14hr burns during some recent cold spells of 15-20*F.  Crazy to think considering the 8.5sq ft firebox and 116 gallon capacity. Either way, price on the G4000 is $8,995.


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## Case1030 (Dec 31, 2020)

spitfire557 said:


> Just spoke to the local Heatmaster dealer and he says that for my situation (1,800sq ft moderately insulated rancher), the G4000 would be more than sufficient. He is currently running that stove at his house (4,100sq ft worth) and has gotten 14hr burns during some recent cold spells of 15-20*F.  Crazy to think considering the 8.5sq ft firebox and 116 gallon capacity. Either way, price on the G4000 is $8,995.



Do you have a local Polar, Portage & Main dealer? Wouldn't hurt to keep your options open. Ask questions, look at specs, power vent motors (ecm vs regular) also build quality, weight metal used.


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## andym (Dec 31, 2020)

If I were shopping for OWB the Heatmaster G series would definitely make the top 3. Also like the Crown Royals, and Central Boilers Classic Edge. I personally don't see how you could go wrong with those 3. 
Be sure to ask the dealer if he's got any 2-3 year old models. Some do.


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## E Yoder (Dec 31, 2020)

spitfire557 said:


> Again, I thank everyone for the replies. I’m still scratching my head and deciding what I want to do. Obviously more research is in order.
> 
> My gut feeling is still leaning towards an OWB. It’s what I’ve had my mind set on for a few years now, but reading about how far indoor furnaces have come along has made me re-think it. I guess the biggest perk of the OWB for me is having the fire away from the house. We have a newborn in our home now and our current stove is directly below her room in the basement, which has always bothered my wife. I know that it’s a safe setup, but convincing the wife of that is sometimes difficult.
> 
> @eyoder do you have any recommendations on brands or models for OWB? I’ve consulted with a local Wood Master dealer and unfortunately they can only sell me the EPA approved Cleanfire model. There’s some loop holes that can be used to get my hands on a 4400 but not sure I’m willing to do that. I’ve also shopped Mahoning stoves, two of the guys down the road run them and have for years, but their warranty is far from appealing.


I am a dealer for Heatmaster so that's what I'm familiar with. The G4000 can handle a pretty large house no problem. It seems the harder you push it the better it runs. 
I would be very slow to install the 4400 you mentioned. Install to a residence is forever an illegal install. But to each his own.  
The Woodmaster cleanfire and the CB Edge are the same model, CB bought out Woodmaster I think. 
A good supportive dealer is a big deal to me, you never know when you might need support.


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## spitfire557 (Dec 31, 2020)

Case1030 said:


> Do you have a local Polar, Portage & Main dealer? Wouldn't hurt to keep your options open. Ask questions, look at specs, power vent motors (ecm vs regular) also build quality, weight metal used.



I do, and I've actually been in touch with him a few times. He's about 45 minutes away and offered to stop out and do a free "home assessment." I took him up on that offer and he said he'd call me in a week to iron out a day/time. After calling him back a few times and not hearing anything, I walked away. I'm sure he's a nice enough guy and is plenty busy, but I am not a big fan of chasing around the guy who I want to give $10k to.

The next closest dearer is about 4 hours away.


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## spitfire557 (Jan 1, 2021)

E Yoder said:


> I am a dealer for Heatmaster so that's what I'm familiar with. The G4000 can handle a pretty large house no problem. It seems the harder you push it the better it runs.
> I would be very slow to install the 4400 you mentioned. Install to a residence is forever an illegal install. But to each his own.
> The Woodmaster cleanfire and the CB Edge are the same model, CB bought out Woodmaster I think.
> A good supportive dealer is a big deal to me, you never know when you might need support.



Appreciate the advice. And yes - Woodmaster has been bought out by CB and their gassers are rebadged CB's. My local dealer confirmed that.

And so far - I've had good interactions with both the Woodmaster and Heatmaster dealers. I think I like the Heatmaster more though. Do you have any positive or negative things to say about the insulated piping Heatmaster sells?


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## SpaceBus (Jan 2, 2021)

spitfire557 said:


> Appreciate the advice. And yes - Woodmaster has been bought out by CB and their gassers are rebadged CB's. My local dealer confirmed that.
> 
> And so far - I've had good interactions with both the Woodmaster and Heatmaster dealers. I think I like the Heatmaster more though. Do you have any positive or negative things to say about the insulated piping Heatmaster sells?


I would assume the dealer makes more on the insulated piping than the boiler. That's not to take away from the importance of insulated piping nor the quality of the Heatmaster product, but you could probably do better DIY or finding a different vendor. I have a feeling the dealer offers financing and you can wrap the pipe up in the price of the stove, more of a convenience than anything else.


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## E Yoder (Jan 2, 2021)

The margin on insulated piping is not that much. It doesn't hurt to shop around tho. CB's Thermopex and HeatMaster's Rhinoflex are very similar. 
Do your research before you do homemade pipe, I've seen enormous amounts of heat go in the ground for years with poorly insulated pipe.


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## spitfire557 (Jan 2, 2021)

E Yoder said:


> The margin on insulated piping is not that much. It doesn't hurt to shop around tho. CB's Thermopex and HeatMaster's Rhinoflex are very similar.
> Do your research before you do homemade pipe, I've seen enormous amounts of heat go in the ground for years with poorly insulated pipe.



FWIW this guy wanted $11.50/ft for the Rhinoflex. I do have a buddy who does spray foam, considered doing DIY similar to the stickies thread on this forum.


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## salecker (Jan 2, 2021)

I have Cast iron rads in my house.It's like having a little wood stove in every room.
In my basement i use a unit heater,i want the air moving around because there isn't much use of the basement.My thought it cuts down on stale air down there.


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## E Yoder (Jan 2, 2021)

spitfire557 said:


> FWIW this guy wanted $11.50/ft for the Rhinoflex. I do have a buddy who does spray foam, considered doing DIY similar to the stickies thread on this forum.


Makes sense. 
I see guys do the black foam insulation from hardware stores, it crumbles in the heat becoming a nice snow melt system.


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## spitfire557 (Jan 2, 2021)

E Yoder said:


> Makes sense.
> I see guys do the black foam insulation from hardware stores, it crumbles in the heat becoming a nice snow melt system.



No clue how anyone would expect that stuff to last more than a few months underground.


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## Eureka (Jan 2, 2021)

spitfire557 said:


> FWIW this guy wanted $11.50/ft for the Rhinoflex. I do have a buddy who does spray foam, considered doing DIY similar to the stickies thread on this forum.


That’s about the going  price. 
 Trust me on this, and do yourself a favor: get the real pipe.


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## Eureka (Jan 2, 2021)

E Yoder said:


> Makes sense.
> I see guys do the black foam insulation from hardware stores, it crumbles in the heat becoming a nice snow melt system.


That stuff, and the higher quality closed cell Armacell will both harden and crumble if they see any real heat or light exposure.  So yeah I wouldn’t think direct burial would be a whole lot better


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## andym (Jan 2, 2021)

Looks like this is headed toward the OWB side of the original question. One advantage I don't recall being mentioned is that if you locate your boiler in or near your wood shed you will handle your wood less often than any in door setup. That's a pretty significant advantage really.


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## spitfire557 (Jan 2, 2021)

Eureka said:


> That’s about the going  price.
> Trust me on this, and do yourself a favor: get the real pipe.



By "real pipe" do you mean something along the lines of Rhinoflex, or the DIY spray foam job?


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## Eureka (Jan 2, 2021)

Yeah Rhinoflex, Rehau Insulpex, Logstor, thermopex, etc.  the Rhinoflex looks excellent with the thicker outer shell.  Way more straightforward  and durable than a DIY job that could end up saturated with water.


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## spitfire557 (Jan 2, 2021)

andym said:


> Looks like this is headed toward the OWB side of the original question. One advantage I don't recall being mentioned is that if you locate your boiler in or near your wood shed you will handle your wood less often than any in door setup. That's a pretty significant advantage really.



I haven't yet established a "wood shed." My current situation is three different areas of stacked wood on skids. Eventually I'll build a more permanent structure, and I'm sure the OWB location will be a huge factor in that.

With that in mind - I did ask one of the dealers about OWB location, as our property tends to get a decent sustained westerly wind during the winter months. I asked if I should protect the OWB by placing it behind a wind break, such as my detached garage. The Heatmaster dealer said it would not make a difference, and the unit could be placed in direct wind as it fully "shuts down" during idle. This didn't make much sense to me at first, but after watching some Youtube videos about the G4000 I can see why this may work.


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## brenndatomu (Jan 2, 2021)

andym said:


> One advantage I don't recall being mentioned is that if you locate your boiler in or near your wood shed you will handle your wood less often than any in door setup. That's a pretty significant advantage really.


So you handle the wood less, but then have to make (or buy) twice as much wood...so in the end I see no advantage there...makes it that much harder to get ahead on your wood supply actually, and twice (or more) the space tied up in storing it too...


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## E Yoder (Jan 2, 2021)

spitfire557 said:


> I haven't yet established a "wood shed." My current situation is three different areas of stacked wood on skids. Eventually I'll build a more permanent structure, and I'm sure the OWB location will be a huge factor in that.
> 
> With that in mind - I did ask one of the dealers about OWB location, as our property tends to get a decent sustained westerly wind during the winter months. I asked if I should protect the OWB by placing it behind a wind break, such as my detached garage. The Heatmaster dealer said it would not make a difference, and the unit could be placed in direct wind as it fully "shuts down" during idle. This didn't make much sense to me at first, but after watching some Youtube videos about the G4000 I can see why this may work.


I've never seen wind affect an outdoor boiler that had a good tight draft closure.
I have customers say they guess their dog will stay warm under the boiler, I chuckle, the snow blows in and never melts. He'll be a cold pooch.  There's not that much heat loss.
As far as wood consumption, we'd have to compare specific models to know for sure. Indoor warm air furnaces and outdoor boilers vary widely in efficiency depending on design and technology.


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## andym (Jan 2, 2021)

E Yoder said:


> As far as wood consumption, we'd have to compare specific models to know for sure. Indoor warm air furnaces and outdoor boilers vary widely in efficiency depending on design and technology.


Aren't the new gasification boilers nearly as efficient as my wood furnace which is rated around 75-80%?


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## brenndatomu (Jan 2, 2021)

andym said:


> Aren't the new gasification boilers nearly as efficient as my wood furnace which is rated around 75-80%?


Yeah, when actually firing...a lot of losses other losses though...especially the way most people are set up and the unit just throttles up when there is a major call for heat...so losses from idling, line losses to the house(that can be HUGE if you use cheap pipe and/or have a high water table) loss of the radiant heat of having the unit inside the envelope of your home, etc, etc...
The newer units are much better than the old school units though, for sure! That's why I said twice as much wood, not 3-4 times as much (like as would be with many old school OWB's)


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## Case1030 (Jan 2, 2021)

brenndatomu said:


> Yeah, when actually firing...a lot of losses other losses though...especially the way most people are set up and the unit just throttles up when there is a major call for heat...so losses from idling, line losses to the house(that can be HUGE if you use cheap pipe and/or have a high water table) loss of the radiant heat of having the unit inside the envelope of your home, etc, etc...
> The newer units are much better than the old school units though, for sure! That's why I said twice as much wood, not 3-4 times as much (like as would be with many old school OWB's)



+1 to exterior heat loss
I wouldn't want my heatmaster g100 installed outdoors. It heats the outbuilding with the heater tuned off. Hopefully the newer models use better insulation and also insulated the fuel and burn chamber doors.


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## brenndatomu (Jan 2, 2021)

Case1030 said:


> +1 to exterior heat loss
> I wouldn't want my heatmaster g100 installed outdoors. It heats the outbuilding with the heater tuned off. Hopefully the newer models use better insulation and also insulated the fuel and burn chamber doors.


I keep trying to talk my dad and brother into getting rid of their old CB pig, and putting the new one inside one of their shops (they heat both of their houses and shops from one OWB on the farm)


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## Eureka (Jan 3, 2021)

Case1030 said:


> +1 to exterior heat loss
> I wouldn't want my heatmaster g100 installed outdoors. It heats the outbuilding with the heater tuned off. Hopefully the newer models use better insulation and also insulated the fuel and burn chamber doors.


I have my C150 it’s own little building and it stays pretty warm in there.  I really think most of that heat comes off the exposed 30” of insulated chimney section.  I know this little thing would never be heating all of the space that it is if it was sitting outside in the harsh winter environment of northern WI.


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## spitfire557 (Jan 3, 2021)

Eureka said:


> I have my C150 it’s own little building and it stays pretty warm in there.  I really think most of that heat comes off the exposed 30” of insulated chimney section.  I know this little thing would never be heating all of the space that it is if it was sitting outside in the harsh winter environment of northern WI.



Putting the OWB in my detached garage is certainly a decent idea. I have the space for it out there, but not sure I want the clutter of wood, ash, etc.


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## spitfire557 (Jan 12, 2021)

I happened to stumble across a good deal on a >1 year old G100 that appears to be in very good condition. Is there any known issues with this stove, and would it be worth the $3,500 savings to go with it compared to a G4000?

I need to double check, but I’m told the warranty is transferable.


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## Case1030 (Jan 12, 2021)

spitfire557 said:


> I happened to stumble across a good deal on a >1 year old G100 that appears to be in very good condition. Is there any known issues with this stove, and would it be worth the $3,500 savings to go with it compared to a G4000?
> 
> I need to double check, but I’m told the warranty is transferable.



So far mine has been running well with no known issues (only 3 months). Also not much to go wrong at 1 year old.

Make sure it has the bypass option... or else you will only be able to install outdoors.


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## Medic21 (Jan 12, 2021)

spitfire557 said:


> I happened to stumble across a good deal on a >1 year old G100 that appears to be in very good condition. Is there any known issues with this stove, and would it be worth the $3,500 savings to go with it compared to a G4000?
> 
> I need to double check, but I’m told the warranty is transferable.


The savings in wood alone make the G100 a much better stove.  Is it this years model or last years?  

The difference between this and the 4400 you referenced is also a no brainer. I installed a Crown Royal 7300 MP. I don’t regret not going with a gasser because I burn coal in it at times and that was the point. I wouldn’t consider anything other than a gasser for a OWB if I was only burning wood.

The difference between these and the CB or Woodmaster branded CB is also night and day.

Find a local dealer to help you with the warranty transfer, perhaps the dealer that originally sold the stove.

As far as pipe reading through this. You can do it once or redo it right. That is really how it works. The 1” pipe is pretty cheap compared to the 1 1/4” Thermopex I used. Around $12 for any of it. Like I said do it once.

Just always remember one thing.  The G100 will operate better with wood seasoned 2 years and the 4000 will run ok with a green tree cut and thrown in.  3000 square feet well insulated and you have to commit to cutting 5-6 cords each year to stay ahead.


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## Medic21 (Jan 12, 2021)

Let me clarify the previous statement.  The G100, in my opinion, is a much simpler design with controls.  Less to go bad.


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## Case1030 (Jan 12, 2021)

Also I'm curious about price comparison. You mentioned $3500 savings compared to a g4000? How much does the 1 year old g100 cost?


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## spitfire557 (Jan 12, 2021)

Case1030 said:


> Also I'm curious about price comparison. You mentioned $3500 savings compared to a g4000? How much does the 1 year old g100 cost?



$5,500, compared to $9,000 for a brand new G4000.


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## Medic21 (Jan 12, 2021)

spitfire557 said:


> $5,500, compared to $9,000 for a brand new G4000.


Don’t even think about it.  That’s about a $1500 less than when the  G100 was new less than a year ago.  

The new G series meet 2020 EPA standards.  The older ones like the 100 did not.  Other than that it’s a bullet proof and proven stove.


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## Case1030 (Jan 13, 2021)

spitfire557 said:


> $5,500, compared to $9,000 for a brand new G4000.



Yep I agree with @Medic21 on this one. $1500 is nothing off a used -pre 2020 model. I bet they were blowing them out the door new for that price last year once the new g4000 came out. 

I paid equivalent to $3900USD for my g100 used 1 year old (at the start of this heating season). So for in other words I wouldn't pay over 4k for it now... remember we are also half way through winter pretty much.


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## E Yoder (Jan 13, 2021)

Medic21 said:


> Don’t even think about it.  That’s about a $1500 less than when the  G100 was new less than a year ago.
> 
> The new G series meet 2020 EPA standards.  The older ones like the 100 did not.  Other than that it’s a bullet proof and proven stove.


A new G100 for $7,000? I might be misunderstanding you.  If it's got the smoke bypass option it would have sold for $8,000 - $8,500 new. They did have some large rebates in spring of 2020 when the new regs came in, so it could have originally been sold for around $7000.


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## spitfire557 (Jan 13, 2021)

Appreciate the input folks. I’ll see how flexible this guy is on pricing.


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## Medic21 (Jan 13, 2021)

E Yoder said:


> A new G100 for $7,000? I might be misunderstanding you.  If it's got the smoke bypass option it would have sold for $8,000 - $8,500 new. They did have some large rebates in spring of 2020 when the new regs came in, so it could have originally been sold for around $7000.


I looked back at my estimates.  I had quoted a GS.


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## Medic21 (Jan 13, 2021)

Case1030 said:


> Yep I agree with @Medic21 on this one. $1500 is nothing off a used -pre 2020 model. I bet they were blowing them out the door new for that price last year once the new g4000 came out.
> 
> I paid equivalent to $3900USD for my g100 used 1 year old (at the start of this heating season). So for in other words I wouldn't pay over 4k for it now... remember we are also half way through winter pretty much.


That is actually a killer price on a used one here.  I could get at least 6k out of my 2 y/o conventional still.


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## spitfire557 (Jan 13, 2021)

I think I'll see if he'll entertain a $5k offer. My house is only 1,800 sq ft so I'm sure the G100 will be plenty capable. The $4k savings compared to a new G4000 will be extremely helpful. Unless you folks feel differently, and have adamant negative opinions of the G100, but I'm not getting that vibe.


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## E Yoder (Jan 13, 2021)

It's been a great little unit. Don't cut your wood too long, it needs wood under 16". 
I heated over 3000 sq ft for 5 years with a G100 and a GS100.


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## Medic21 (Jan 13, 2021)

Honestly, you can’t go wrong with the G100.


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## spitfire557 (Jan 13, 2021)

E Yoder said:


> It's been a great little unit. Don't cut your wood too long, it needs wood under 16".
> I heated over 3000 sq ft for 5 years with a G100 and a GS100.



I appreciate your response. The G4000 seems like a particularly nice unit, but the cost savings of this G100 are too significant to ignore. Are you able to confirm that the warranty is easily transferable?


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## Case1030 (Jan 13, 2021)

spitfire557 said:


> I appreciate your response. The G4000 seems like a particularly nice unit, but the cost savings of this G100 are too significant to ignore. Are you able to confirm that the warranty is easily transferable?



If the seller kept up with the yearly water samples it should be fine from what I was told... maybe EYoder can confirm?


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## E Yoder (Jan 14, 2021)

I've had them do it for me. You'd need to call Heatmaster with the serial number to be sure. It does depend on the previous owner doing water testing.


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## spitfire557 (Jan 14, 2021)

Sounds good, I will be sure to call them once I get ahold of the serial number. Thanks again!


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## spitfire557 (Jan 21, 2021)

UPDATE: Had a local dealer stop by today who not only sells Polar & Crown Royal furnaces, but designed his own stove which he obviously tries to sell first.

It's a closed/pressurized/non-gasser OWB which he designed himself and had a local manufacturer produce. My biggest gripe is that there's only 4 or 5 of them installed so far and not much of a track record to depend on. The dealer was nice enough, but refused to tell me who the actual manufacturer of the furnace is (odd). Price was $10,900 which is more than other comparable stoves. He swears that the closed/pressurized system will make it last for 30-40 years though.

I can't find anything online about the series, so I'll try to upload the literature I have on it.

Thoughts? The G100 I was eyeballing got sold from underneath me, so I'm leaning heavily toward the G4000 but thought the idea of a closed system OWB was an interesting talking point.


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## brenndatomu (Jan 21, 2021)

spitfire557 said:


> I can't find anything online about the series, so I'll try to upload the literature I have on it.


Conestoga?


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## spitfire557 (Jan 21, 2021)

brenndatomu said:


> Conestoga?



No, "Magnum Coal Boilers" is the official brand name. He's a local PA guy who designed it, and some unknown PA steel manufacturer builds it.


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## andym (Jan 21, 2021)

spitfire557 said:


> No, "Magnum Coal Boilers" is the official brand name. He's a local PA guy who designed it, and some unknown PA steel manufacturer builds it.


Do any of the EPA outdoor gassers qualify for the new 26% tax credit? The Magnum sure wont. 
Personally, I would not spend 10,900 on an unproven new model. Especially a non gasser.


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## 3fordasho (Jan 21, 2021)

andym said:


> Do any of the EPA outdoor gassers qualify for the new 26% tax credit? The Magnum sure wont.
> Personally, I would not spend 10,900 on an unproven new model. Especially a non gasser.


There is quite a few that will qualify- you can check them out here: Woodstove Database | Burnwise | US EPA


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## Medic21 (Jan 22, 2021)

Pressurized??  How much water does it hold?  The only OWB pressurized system I have ever seen way the old clean fire from Woodmaster and it was a disaster.  

You will require oxygen barrier pipe and there is more involved in pressurized systems.  Not to mention on I don’t like the thought of a large bomb.


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## E Yoder (Jan 22, 2021)

A homemade boiler for $10,900 sounds like a lot of money for a proverbial "pig in a poke". 
I've seen many small brands come and go over the years, small design flaws often knock them out. 
This one may be fine tho.  I dunno.


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## salecker (Jan 22, 2021)

Medic21 said:


> Pressurized??  How much water does it hold?  The only OWB pressurized system I have ever seen way the old clean fire from Woodmaster and it was a disaster.
> 
> You will require oxygen barrier pipe and there is more involved in pressurized systems.  Not to mention on I don’t like the thought of a large bomb.


What large bomb? Steam boilers are the large bomb waiting to happen.Closed system boilers have a 30# relief valve
 There is actually less involved with a closed system,mine is 10 years in use,zero water testing required,zero water leavle to worry about,unlike melting your open system down if you happen to steam your water away.No chemicals to treat your water to keep it from rusting your boiler away.


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## spitfire557 (Jan 22, 2021)

andym said:


> Do any of the EPA outdoor gassers qualify for the new 26% tax credit? The Magnum sure wont.
> Personally, I would not spend 10,900 on an unproven new model. Especially a non gasser.



Sure do - my local Heatmaster dealer was sure to call me as soon as he found out about that LOL.

And for the record, I have no interest in the pressurized OWB. I just thought it was an interesting concept and wanted to see what the experts here thought.

He did say it would need the oxygen barrier pex, and that the system stays around 12# ideally. When I asked him why other manufacturers aren't doing closed systems, he said it was because of insurance/liability reasons. He also said a few other things that didn't make sense to me, but I'll leave that be for now.


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## spitfire557 (Jan 22, 2021)

3fordasho said:


> There is quite a few that will qualify- you can check them out here: Woodstove Database | Burnwise | US EPA



Maybe I'm crazy, but I can only find the G7000 on that list and not the G4000.


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## 3fordasho (Jan 22, 2021)

spitfire557 said:


> Maybe I'm crazy, but I can only find the G7000 on that list and not the G4000.


I noticed that too, perhaps a call to Heatmaster is in order to see why it's not on the list.  It would also have to meet the 75% efficient criteria (the G7000 is at 70%).   As far as the tax credit, pretty sure installation costs also qualify so it's a pretty decent credit (assuming you pay federal taxes).


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## spitfire557 (Jan 22, 2021)

3fordasho said:


> I noticed that too, perhaps a call to Heatmaster is in order to see why it's not on the list.  It would also have to meet the 75% efficient criteria (the G7000 is at 70%).   As far as the tax credit, pretty sure installation costs also qualify so it's a pretty decent credit (assuming you pay federal taxes).



Well the G100 has an advertised HHV efficiency of 75.8% so I find it tough to imagine the G4000 would be lower than that. Maybe E Yoder can chime in?


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## E Yoder (Jan 23, 2021)

From what I understand the G4000 passed the EPA emmisions test last spring but the EPA has been extremely slow to get paperwork done this year and get stuff posted. 
The G7000 and G4000 were tuned for long burn times and a high 8 hour burn rate btus, to meet the 75% requirement on all the test runs it'll need some additional testing. 
From burning a G7000 I'm convinced it's more efficient than the previous generation of G models. But right now they're not advertising it as qualified for the tax credit til they can prove it properly. 
The concern is that if manufacturers get lazy and sloppy the tax credit could get yanked.


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## spitfire557 (Jan 23, 2021)

E Yoder said:


> From what I understand the G4000 passed the EPA emmisions test last spring but the EPA has been extremely slow to get paperwork done this year and get stuff posted.
> The G7000 and G4000 were tuned for long burn times and a high 8 hour burn rate btus, to meet the 75% requirement on all the test runs it'll need some additional testing.
> From burning a G7000 I'm convinced it's more efficient than the previous generation of G models. But right now they're not advertising it as qualified for the tax credit til they can prove it properly.
> The concern is that if manufacturers get lazy and sloppy the tax credit could get yanked.



So in due time the G4000 will qualify for the tax credit, but not at this exact moment? I wonder if I purchased one this tax year if I could claim the credit next year if/when it qualifies.


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## SpaceBus (Jan 23, 2021)

spitfire557 said:


> So in due time the G4000 will qualify for the tax credit, but not at this exact moment? I wonder if I purchased one this tax year if I could claim the credit next year if/when it qualifies.


I have this same question about my cookstove that I installed in November 2019.


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## E Yoder (Jan 23, 2021)

I think all the G models will qualify within a month or two. 
From what I read on the Alliance for Green Heat website you have to install the heater in the same year you take it out of your taxes. 
I don't think this applies to cook stoves. It's to heat a residence. Cookstoves are EPA exempt and not considered heaters.  
But I'm no expert, just thinking out loud.


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## SpaceBus (Jan 23, 2021)

E Yoder said:


> I think all the G models will qualify within a month or two.
> From what I read on the Alliance for Green Heat website you have to install the heater in the same year you take it out of your taxes.
> I don't think this applies to cook stoves. It's to heat a residence. Cookstoves are EPA exempt and not considered heaters.
> But I'm no expert, just thinking out loud.


The manufacturer of my cookstove released a document stating it applied, but I also have my doubts. Our "heat" stove was installed in 2018, but we didn't know about the old tax credit either. Bummer.


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