# Uber Holz



## Mo Heat

Here's my latest creation in movie and still. 

Movie:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5998562293877429615&pr=goog-sl

Google stills: http://tinyurl.com/5d2hje

Inline Still:


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## MrGriz

That's great work Mo, nice video too.  I may just have to try one of those this season.

I'm curious though, is that a Missouri holz hausen (sp?)?  It looks a little smaller than some of the ones I've seen around here  ;-)


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## Roospike

Holy chit ! Thats a monster pile brother , without the video it would of been hard to tell. 
Do you let them sit to season for 1 or 2 years being in the trees and all ?


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## Mo Heat

Roospike said:
			
		

> Do you let them sit to season for 1 or 2 years being in the trees and all ?



Spike, I'll let you know next year.


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## snowfreak

Mo nice looking stack of wood.  I was hoping for a Tarzan call from the top of the pile though.


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## ChrisN

Hey Mo, How do you remove pieces from that pile?  It looks like you'll need a step-ladder to take pieces off the top.  Is that going to be a PITA?


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## Mo Heat

chrisN said:
			
		

> Hey Mo, How do you remove pieces from that pile?  It looks like you'll need a step-ladder to take pieces off the top.  Is that going to be a PITA?



Yep, step ladder. No big deal. The PITA is getting the wood up the hill to the house.

I built this thing to consume ALL the wood I had from about 4 big oak trees. It got a bit taller than I had anticipated, but only by about a foot. This way, I only have one stack for next year. Hopefully the stuff in the middle will get dry. I think it will because there are so many really short pieces that it would have been an even bigger PITA to stack them. 

The holz design really lends itself to a mix of wood sizes like I get from random tree service occurrences in my hood, and some of the twisted white oak and crap yard tree wood I sometimes have to cut really short due to tuff grain, crotches, and knots in order to split it by hand. I put all the really nice long stuff on the bottom perimeter, getting shorter as I go up. All the little stuff just gets thrown into the middle. Takes a bit of sorting, but I end up with one nice, symmetrical pile. Quite the conversation piece as well.


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## begreen

Really impressive holz Mo. How many cords do you estimate are in there?


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## wahoowad

It looks freakin' awesome! Any idea how long it took to build?


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## ourhouse

Nice stack Mo I might have to try that this year.


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## Mo Heat

BG, Thanks. I estimate just under 3 cords.

WW, Thanks for the enthusiasm. It's hard to estimate total time of stacking, but I'd guess 6 to 8 hours x 2 people =~ 12 to 16 person hrs. Maybe an hour or two less. I did it piece meal so it took several months calendar time. I'd say it took longer for me than the times Todd has quoted in the past, even given his smaller HH. Given this one is a bit larger than his, it took me even more time. I tend to be very slow and methodical. I mean, hey, what's the hurry, right? This is wood burning related, so time goes out the window. 

EH, Thanks. I love this form. Looks great in the back yard, and that can be important in my neighborhood. Lots of silly whiners around here worried about their property values, or in some cases, just trying to feel important, or at least more important than Mo. Mrs. Mo Heat and I sometimes refer to the holz as a giant pine cone. To my eye, it sure beats the right angles of traditional rows for blending into the woods. Just seems more pleasant to view, somehow. It's important to try and build on level ground, though, and to start with a good foundation and long length lower courses. I'll have to finish my holz wiki entry soon. I've been putting that off too long.


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## Todd

Nice job Mo, yours is bigger than mine! ;-P 

I may try to top you next spring. I'm thinking about 2 ea, oval holz about 12x5x6. I'd like to get 3 cords like yours in each but it's a pain when it's over 6' high and 8' across. I think an oval or rectangle one would work better for me. Stay tuned.

BTW, I'm 2/3 the way through one of my HH and so far all the wood is well seasoned, even the middle pieces.


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## Mo Heat

Hi Todd,

I found it easier to keep the [inward] slope of all the lower splits when stacking the larger holz (10 x 10 x 8). That is, there was less gap between the outside ends and so it required less attention to deal with that little nuisance than when building my smaller holz (7 x 7 x 7).

I'm glad to hear the middle stuff dried well for you. I'm hoping that isn't an issue with this big holz next year. Since most of the stuff in the middle is shorter, some is really short, I'm not expecting trouble.

I never thought of varying the rounded perimeter shape from a circle. That will be interesting to view. Space is a big consideration at my house (I want it to 'look' small), so the cylinder gives me the best bang per foot print.

BTW: my little holz collapsed about two weeks before I started burning. No big deal, though. I had expected it for quite a while and was surprised it stood as long as it did. I built it on quite a slope and it started moving and bulging down the hill a few months after completion. On the bigger holz, I used some landscaping stones to try and defeat the somewhat milder slope I built it on, but it is still on a hill. We'll see how well it does. Next time, I think I'll dump some fill within the landscape stones and start out on a level surface. That is the first instruction of the holz directions I worked from. Step 1: DO NOT BUILD ON A HILL!


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## Metal

Was that Tom Cruise in the video? : )


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## Mo Heat

Metal said:
			
		

> Was that Tom Cruise in the video? : )



Stunt double.


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## velvetfoot

Wow!


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## Marty

Nice! 
Maybe next time you could put some stairs and a widows walk on that sucker!


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## MALogger

That is a nice looking wood pile. I thought one of the advantages of that type of pile was it dried the wood faster due to the chimney effect?

Craig


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## Todd

So far I haven't noticed that the wood drys faster in a HH than straight rows. I think the big advantage is the saved space. Those things hold alot of wood.


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## Mo Heat

Todd said:
			
		

> So far I haven't noticed that the wood drys faster in a HH than straight rows. I think the big advantage is the saved space. Those things hold alot of wood.



For me, the jury is still out on how fast wood dries in an HH, especially a big one, but it is amazing how much wood gets gobbled up making one of these things. I also love the way they look.


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## drewmo

While your boots look rather smashing on you in the video, I'd recommend something a bit more sturdier if you hope to reach the summit. Clogs, maybe. BTW, great stack and great symmetry. Keep us posted on how it dries. And any ideas of how well an HH would work if you cut it down in size, maybe in half?


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## Mo Heat

drewmo said:
			
		

> And any ideas of how well an HH would work if you cut it down in size, maybe in half?



drewmo, I suspect the smaller the holz, the faster the drying. I size mine more for asthetics and how much wood I am trying to store. I attempted to get the whole of next year's burning into that one holz hausen.

BTW: I've got a cedar sided house with a cedar deck, both naturally finished (transparent stain), and appreciate the multiple coatings and especially the prep work you did on yours. Great job. I've had my place restained once. I was tempted to do it myself, but there are some really spooky heights that put me off. The guys that did it broke a bunch of my boards hammering in new nails and were generally pretty hard on the house in several other ways using spray washers for the prep work instead of grinding or sanding, which would be too much work and time to be profitable for them and affordable by me.

I'll let you know how the drying goes. I can say that the smaller holz I built last April and am burning now is dried to about 20%. At 20% I get just a hint of hissing when I burn it. I like my wood at 15%, but that last 5% seems to take a lot longer than the first 5%. Still, 20% is what is widely recommended and it burns just fine with no trouble getting it started.


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## Bones

Mo Heat,  how about PVC pipe with holes in it sticking up the center for more air movement  ¿


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## Mo Heat

That might be worth a try if I had a piece laying around and pre-drilled. I made some home-made termite traps by drilling pvc and I had my fill of doing that. BTW: I just received a load of Maple (my first maple, ever) and am still deciding whether to build a third holz out back, or maybe do a row along the back property line as a sort of fence. Since this maple will probably be for the winter after next, I may need to do some other projects first.


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## Mo Heat

Here's the maple I got from a tree service working in the hood last week. My luck seems to be changing after having a disasterous vacation the two weeks before that. Looks like about 1.5 cords that should make a third holz sometime before next winter, to be burned the winter after. Mrs. Mo Heat is starting to get pretty nervous about where this will all end...


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## Harley

Man... that's a beautiful score in the scrounging department - Good score!


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## Mo Heat

This is the only way to scrounge IMO, although some loads are better looking than others. Maple doesn't compare to the white and red oak I usually burn, but it beets burning NG, that's for sure. And I'm beginning to feel like I don't have to ration wood through next year. I can throw a couple extra splits in before I hit the sack and not worry about having enough next winter. A suburban stealth burner's dream.

If my yard was configured differently, I wouldn't need to truck all this stuff 230 feet down a hill [with riding mower and trailer] to process, and then 150 feet back up a hill to burn. I'm not complaining, though. I feel like I was visited by the wood fairy.


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## Bones

MO, nice score on the Maple.
I think I'll build a Holz and use an old satellite dish ( 6 foot diameter) as the base supported on the outside with blocks. Thoughts ¿


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## Mo Heat

Bones said:
			
		

> MO, nice score on the Maple.
> I think I'll build a Holz and use an old satellite dish ( 6 foot diameter) as the base supported on the outside with blocks. Thoughts ¿



Do you live in the double-wide next to mine? 

Satellite dish? Well, I guess you could try. If you do, I'd love to see some pics. Maybe you've finally found a way to recycle those things. However, I'm not sure it will be strong enough to support that kind of weight (probably 1.5 - 2 cords in a six foot holz), but I have little experience with those big old dishes.


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## Bones

He He He
No, I don't live next to you. I've got an old log cabin. I've got an old one and need to get rid of it anyway. I figure the blocks around under the outside ring would give it support and make it easy to level.


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## wg_bent

You've invented a new sport Mo.    Forget bouldering... forget hang gliding.  We've got Holtz Hausening.    As long as we keep the cow tippers away I thing it could work.   :lol:


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## rmcfall

bouldering, huh?




			
				Warren said:
			
		

> You've invented a new sport Mo.    Forget bouldering... forget hang gliding.  We've got Holtz Hausening.    As long as we keep the cow tippers away I thing it could work.   :lol:


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## Mo Heat

My Uber Holz has an uber bulge on the downhill side. I'll try to remember to post a pic later. Looks a lot like what happened to the first one that I also built on a hill, contrary to the instructions and common sense, of course. My whole yard is on a hill, so I don't have much choice. I'm expecting a partial collapse in the next month or two. I'll decide what to do about it then, based on how much of it stays upright.

On a perhaps related note, my house was just reassessed for tax purposes. It went up 28%! They must have seen my Uber Holz. Maybe I can get that adjusted back downwards after it falls over. *sigh*


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## Todd

Same thing happened in one of my two 8'x 8' HH. It started to bulge on one side, I tried to push some pieces back, and the whole side came down. I ended up building it a little smaller, 7' tall instead of 8' and it lasted through the winter just fine. I went through 1 full 8' x 8' HH, and about 1/3 of the 7 footer this year.

This year I decided to forgo the Holz Haufen stacking method for the Eric Johnson method. The HH does dry wood nicely, and they look really cool, but retrieving the wood from a 7 or 8' HH can be a pain. If I can get away with straight rows over 6' tall I can get more wood in my stacking area than a HH and will be easier retrieving it. 

Like Eric I use 7.5' steel fence posts drivin into the ground about a foot and 12' apart. Then I stack the wood about 2/3 the way up  and tie a piece of rope between the poles for tension, and continue til I'm at a 6' height. I was a little leery of stacking straight piles over 4 or 5', but this seems pretty sturdy so far.

Too bad about your taxes MO. I feel your pain, I had the same thing happen to me last year, but not quite as much.


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## BrotherBart

Yeah taxes are a lot of fun. Year after year they have been jacking our taxes up and saying "Sorry, your property values are soaring so your taxes do also."

This year the value of the property fell like a rock, thirty thousand rocks, and now they are raising the taxes saying "Sorry, property values are down so we need to raise taxes to cover the shortfall.".

Say WHAT?


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## Gunner

Mo Heat said:
			
		

> My Uber Holz has an uber bulge on the downhill side. I'll try to remember to post a pic later. Looks a lot like what happened to the first one that I also built on a hill, contrary to the instructions and common sense, of course. My whole yard is on a hill, so I don't have much choice. I'm expecting a partial collapse in the next month or two. I'll decide what to do about it then, based on how much of it stays upright.
> 
> On a perhaps related note, my house was just reassessed for tax purposes. It went up 28%! They must have seen my Uber Holz. Maybe I can get that adjusted back downwards after it falls over. *sigh*



Yep woke up this morning to a partial collapse of my wood pile. Although not a HH is fell down just the same. This is my first spring at this house so I learned where I stacked my wood becomes a swamp in the spring. The 4" rails that I stacked my piles on are completely swallowed up by the spring goo. Some cursing and 1hr of stacking and it's back up...how long it will stay is another thing.


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## Mo Heat

Todd, I'm with you on the lower height being more stable. I think I may also try Eric's metal fence posts and poly rope 6 foot rows. I've got a place picked out, but it's on a slope, too. I'm wondering if I can just put one "rail row" to compensate for the slope. The "rail row" would be on the downhill side so as to make that first course about level. It'll probably be a few weeks before I get to splitting the new maple delivery, but I'll post something when I start stacking, hopefully with some pictures.

Taxes: BB. I feel for you. That's typical political logic. You've got extra money, they want some. They need extra money, they want more. My school district must have needed another couple hundred busses or something. My taxes are astronomical IMO! Of course, I'm probably still better off than the New Englanders, but they get perks...

Anybody know how the Massachusettes (sp) socialist health care experiment is going?


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## Bones

MO, do you have 1 or 2 rings aroud the outside ¿ It seems that 2 rings of wood would be more stable for a large Holz.


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## Mo Heat

Bones said:
			
		

> MO, do you have 1 or 2 rings aroud the outside ¿ It seems that 2 rings of wood would be more stable for a large Holz.



Bones, You may have something there. I never thought to do a second inner ring, but I'll bet it would be much more stable. One problem I might have is not having enough long splits. One of the reasons I use the holz method is because I have so many stubby pieces that I just throw into the center, likely causing overall instability, but they are unstackable, otherwise.

Were you envisioning tilting the inner ring in a fashion similar to the outer ring, or stacking the inner ring flat on the ground? I think I'd be tempted to tilt the inner ring as well. I might just try that on my next holz. Sounds like a good idea.


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## Bones

My thoughts are with only one ring there is too much pressure pushing toward the outside with the chuncks. 
I really see no need to raise the inner ring ( maybe only the downhill half). Just a thought.


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## Charlie Z

My first one bulged and blew out, too.  Twice.    8' base, about 8' tall.  

I have long maple to about mid height, then short 12-14" long splits.  Looking at the european pictures, the first heap is too tall for the base.  It does seem that the stuff piled in the center pushed out the bulge at the top.  The inward tilt is hard to maintain as you climb - it gets like laying stone.  If you take the time, you can successfully stack it without the cheaters.  Tilt is key, though, 'shouldering' into the pile inside.  The blowouts occurred where the lay was flat to negative.

The second is going up on a wider ring and will be shorter.  I like them cause the hold a lot of wood compactly and look good on my property.



_Listen, lad. I built this kingdom up from nothing. When I started here, all there was was swamp. Other kings said I was daft to build a castle on a swamp, but I built it all the same, just to show 'em. It sank into the swamp. So, I built a second one. That sank into the swamp. So, I built a third one. That burned down, fell over, then sank into the swamp, but the fourth one... stayed up! And that's what you're gonna get, lad: the strongest castle in these islands. _


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## Mo Heat

Hi Charlie,

I like that quote. Hopefully, my future HH's will resemble that remark.

BTW: do you have any photos of your HH's you can share? Upright or fallen. It doesn't matter.

I like HH's for the same reason, plus they look interesting out in the yard and the neighbors are more curious than put out with a big bunch of wood "next door". Real conversation pieces. Like primitive artwork.


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## zzr7ky

Hi - 

I've got Ordinance inspector's eyeballing my HH.  Needs to start 18" off the ground... So the 8'x10' stack ends up a bit over 10' tall in the center.  I'm on level ground so a ladder can be used for disassembly.  

On the bulge thing.  I'm using a couple pieces of 2-3' long 3" limb with some galvanized wire (9 or 10ga.).  I just build them into the stack with the wire running though the pile.  No restacking since.

I'm planning another similar pile witha 5' breezeway.  Adding a few poles across the top and a tarp will allow loading wheelbarrow under cover part of the season.

ATB, 
Mike P


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## Todd

zzr7ky said:
			
		

> Hi -
> 
> I've got Ordinance inspector's eyeballing my HH.  Needs to start 18" off the ground... So the 8'x10' stack ends up a bit over 10' tall in the center.  I'm on level ground so a ladder can be used for disassembly.
> 
> On the bulge thing.  I'm using a couple pieces of 2-3' long 3" limb with some galvanized wire (9 or 10ga.).  I just build them into the stack with the wire running though the pile.  No restacking since.
> 
> I'm planning another similar pile witha 5' breezeway.  Adding a few poles across the top and a tarp will allow loading wheelbarrow under cover part of the season.
> 
> ATB,
> Mike P



Pictures please.


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## Hogwildz

Mine bulged, one side fell, I restacked, fell again, restacked again, fell a 3rd time. I stacked normal along the outside of the garage wall. Nothing fell since.
I am a recovering HH'er and abstaining from them ever more


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## Mo Heat

Hogwildz said:
			
		

> Mine bulged, one side fell, I restacked, fell again, restacked again, fell a 3rd time. I stacked normal along the outside of the garage wall. Nothing fell since.
> I am a recovering HH'er and abstaining from them ever more



HH... NOT so easy that even a caveman can do it!


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## Mo Heat

zzr7ky said:
			
		

> On the bulge thing.  I'm using a couple pieces of 2-3' long 3" limb with some galvanized wire (9 or 10ga.).  I just build them into the stack with the wire running though the pile.  No restacking since.



This sounds interesting, but I can't quite picture it. Can you elaborate, or maybe post a photo?



> I'm planning another similar pile witha 5' breezeway.  Adding a few poles across the top and a tarp will allow loading wheelbarrow under cover part of the season.



I'll definitely want to see a photo of that!


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## zzr7ky

hi - 

I'm nearing completion of the first half.  I'm planning to lay out and start the next HH after May 7 when the Ordinence inspector is to come and inspect!  

I'll take some pictures and post as soon as I can.  I'd like it neat for the 7th so the inspector's are all warm, fuzzy, and go back to sleep.

ATB, 
Mike P


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## Charlie Z

Here's are some shots of the blow out and a new small haufen...  A couple of recommendations.

Keep the cant.  If you lose it, it will blow out.  The photos don't show it very well, but you need to maintain strong inward tip when laying the wood.  If you are careful, you can place the right piece and not require any of the lateral 'cheaters'.  The inner stack (upright) is tucked in against the outer ring.

The original (blown out) haufen looked awesome when completed.  Over a few weeks, its top widened, settling out and down and eventually blew out.  I hadn't kept the cant at the top.

Haufen with straight, long splits are a lot easier to build.  These are apple and cherry cut 12"-14" and often bent or curved, making it tough to stack.  Gnarlier pieces made up the center stack, but fruitwood doesn't grow straight like oak and it's a tough to make a haufen out of it.  Uniform splits let you roll along.

The inner pile was stacked carefully (upright) on the second haufen.  With the first, it was stacked upright most of the way to the top, then it was piled on randomly at the top to finish.  I think that caused a side load as the pile settled which was not resisted because the cant on the outer ring wasn't there applying inward pressure.

I don't think the haufen shrinks as much to drying as settling (drying causes the settling).   The cant pushes this movement inward to counter any bulging pressure of the settling inner stack.

These were built on a square of 4 pallets and the second on a square of 8' ties with ply scraps.  It's tougher to stack one this small.  It comes out great, but I won't make another under 10' square.  It's too hard to stack - you can move a lot faster with a bigger one.  It will also hold a whole mess of wood.  When you get to filling the middle it's amazing what it holds and the scale really gets good when bigger than 8'.  The second is a little over 2 cords.  There was about 3 in the taller, larger first one.


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## Charlie Z

Apple, before and after...


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## Todd

Nice looking HH! How high up do you go. I found out it was a real pain to retrieve the wood in the middle of winter, when it's over 7' tall.


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## Charlie Z

It's only about 6'.  I ran out of wood, but I'd stop at 7', too.  The first one was really tall and too narrow.  

Now, I go back to rebuilding the original, so we'll have 2 small 'wood buns'.  I think one stack at 12' base about 8' high would do both, easily.   I'd do that if I were starting over.  Be about 5 1/2 cords.

Also, I don't know if haufen dry wood any faster, but it does seem to hold a bit of heat, which might help drying.  

For what it's worth, my 4' regular stacks of fruitwood settled, shifted and fell over twice, too, which is why I did the haufen.  Figured I'd have enough straight ones for the outside and just chuck the odd stuff in the center, as Mo says.  Short, cranked wood takes care to stack any way you do it.

Regardings dimensions, my wife walked by and breezily said, 'use the Golden Ratio'.  If it's good for best selling fiction, it's good for wood stacking.  It's probably right, too - 1:1.618 or 12' base by 7 1/2' height.


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## Mo Heat

My big HH bulged, so this time, before it flopped over, I went out and disassembled the bulge. I think that stopped the instability, but I haven't been out there for a while, and I still need to reassemble the part I took down. It only took a little while, maybe 20 minutes, to get the bulge out and probably saved about 3 or 4 times the amount removed from falling over. Let me see if I can dig up a pic...

Can't find what I'm looking for. Might have lost those pics in the last computer failure... If I find them, I'll post them.


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## Mo Heat

Here's a photo of the partially disassembled holz hausen. As soon as I have all my mulch spread, the shrubs trimmed, etc., I'm going to get right on rebuilding it.


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