# Ironwood or Elm?



## tjg911 (Jan 4, 2015)

Hi,

I haven't been here in over 7 years, I just have gotten too busy but I used to like this site. It was difficult remembering both my userid and password but I finally figured it out so here I am!

I have heated with wood for over 20 years using my boiler only about 1-3% of the time in the heating season. I used to buy my firewood in the round, green and split it with a splitting axe and a sledge hammer. I'm not an expert but I do know my way around wood and splitting it. I have worked on hickory which can split nice or be fibrous and difficult and yellow birch with lots of knots and that can be extremely hard to split due to the knots and especially fibrous nature of that wood is very nasty. But I have always managed to split difficult rounds in the past tho it may have taken 20 minutes to do so.

So I am mystified and hope someone here can tell me just what the heck I found and was dealing with. I tend to be long winded but I like to include lots of details to get a better answer.

So about 3 weeks ago I saw a nice round on the side of the road. I just had to go back and get it. It was 12" in diameter and 14" long, no knots, looked like red or black oak from the bark furrowed but not deeply. When I tried to pick it up I couldn't believe the weight for the size! It is not white oak or hickory, I know them by their bark. This piece was about 2x as heavy as they would be for the size of the round and they are the heaviest and densest wood I know of. It is not locust as it has no thorns.

So I tried to split it, my splitting ax just bounces off it like it is made of rubber. I was able to get it in about 1/4" and I'd pound it with the sledge hammer but it would go no further and it'd just bounce out I sharpened the ax and got the same results.

So after 3 weeks and very cold temperatures I figured the moisture inside was frozen and that might make splitting it possible. I was able to knock off a piece about 5" across and 1" thick. I figured that opened the door, was I wrong! Without exaggeration it took 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 hours to split this 1 round into several pieces. My splitting ax was useless but luckily I have 3 wedges and they did the trick tho at times I had 2 wedges totally stuck!

So the wood has virtually no smell. It is twisted and extremely fibrous. At times it looked like there are trees growing inside the round as the twisting and layers of wood are nothing I ever saw. The heart is 4" across and is brown as in these pictures of ironwood but some pictures of elm also show a brown heart.










The wood has twisted plys, I have read this is why elm is so hard to split as it has opposing layers of twisted plys. 

So here's the key question I believe - is elm heavy like ironwood, ie is it heavier than white oak or hickory? The BTU content would indicate it is not. I'd think this was elm due to the extreme difficulty splitting it but the weight is so heavy I question whether elm is that heavy. Ironwood by it's name sounds more likely. I'd guesstimate this piece weighed 70-80 pounds perhaps more.

Any ideas?


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## claydogg84 (Jan 4, 2015)

Can you get a better bark picture? I dealt with standing dead American Elm almost exclusively my first year burning since it was the only thing dry enough. The center is usually brownish but I'm not sure it was quite as distinguished as your pictures. I bought my splitter because of that damn wood


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## NordicSplitter (Jan 4, 2015)

I had some ironwood once and 3 things I remember. Weighed a TON....Brutal on the chainsaw. Burned for a very long time...Great stuff


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## midwestcoast (Jan 4, 2015)

I can't ID it from those pics, but I can say it does NOT look like Elm. 
Ironwood (Hophornbeam) is a good guess. 
Not all Hophornbeam is that horrible to split, though it is usually pretty tough.


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## tjg911 (Jan 4, 2015)

Those 2 pictures I got off the internet when I Googled Ironwood, I include them to show what the heartwood looked like on the piece I'm talking about. I don't have a camera so I didn't take any pictures, I am the only person without a cell phone I guess. The bark was furrowed like a 20 or 25 year old oak. I swore the wood was oak until I tried to lift it!

For those that have handled elm is it heavy? That I think is the answer to the question.

Also for those that have split Ironwood is it very difficult to split ie fibrous?


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## tigeroak (Jan 4, 2015)

I can not tell from the pictures either. Now when I get some that will not split I noodle them and no I don't have a splitter other than 2 wedges and a maul. Been doing that way all my live.


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## ewlsey (Jan 4, 2015)

Elm doesn't have scales on the bark. At least, not the kind I have dealt with. It usually has a diamond pattern to the bark, like Ash, but smooth. Also, the bark comes of really easily. Elm doesn't have much sap wood. It's mostly dark.


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## claydogg84 (Jan 4, 2015)

Elm is heavy when alive, or dead laying on the ground. It holds a tremendous amount of water.


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## claydogg84 (Jan 4, 2015)

Did the bark look like this?


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## nrford (Jan 4, 2015)

That's ironwood.


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## tjg911 (Jan 4, 2015)

I would say a bit more furrowed than that picture claydogg.

So is elm extremely heavy for it's size? If no then it can't be elm.


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## claydogg84 (Jan 4, 2015)

I would say elm, when wet, is just as heavy as live oak.


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## firefighterjake (Jan 4, 2015)

First pics . . . are not elm . . . at least not American elm.


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## claydogg84 (Jan 4, 2015)

firefighterjake said:


> First pics . . . are not elm . . . at least not American elm.



Yeah, he said he snagged them off the net - They aren't actual pictures of the stuff he's got.


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## firefighterjake (Jan 4, 2015)

claydogg84 said:


> Yeah, he said he snagged them off the net - They aren't actual pictures of the stuff he's got.



Ah . . . missed that . . . thanks for the post Claydogg.


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## Applesister (Jan 5, 2015)

The wood you have probably isn't Ironwood. Ironwood splits fairly straight, its stringy like hickory and the wood fibers are fine grained. Its stringy but it splits okay. 
The heartwood has a very rosey hue when first split, dusty rose and then it fades to pale tan. 
I have a couple of pieces I can show pics of. But I think you may have Rock Elm. Its nasty to split and has very interlocking grain and is extremely heavy.
I cant give you a latin name on that without looking it up.


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## Chimney Smoke (Jan 5, 2015)

Doesn't look like any ironwood I've ever seen.  Ironwood usually has smooth gray bark like beech but instead of being round it has almost like a ridged overall shape.


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## nrford (Jan 5, 2015)

Chimney Smoke said:


> Doesn't look like any ironwood I've ever seen.  Ironwood usually has smooth gray bark like beech but instead of being round it has almost like a ridged overall shape.



That would be "Muscle Wood" "Blue Beech" or Hornbeam that has smooth bark. The original Post shows Hop Hornbeam otherwise known as "Ironwood". To answer the original posters question...No Elm is not heavier that Ironwood or Oak. But the difference is really quite slight and if you had the exact same size piece you could probably only tell the difference if you put them on a scale.


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## midwestcoast (Jan 5, 2015)

Ok, now I understand the question...
Yes, Elm can be very wet and hence, very heavy, when first cut.  The way you describe the interlocked grain it sounds like Elm, but plenty of species can be real bears to split if the tree grew in the open or in harsh conditions.
If you really want an ID you need to take & post pics showing splits, end grain, bark


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## PA. Woodsman (Jan 5, 2015)

nrford said:


> That would be "Muscle Wood" "Blue Beech" or Hornbeam that has smooth bark. .



Yes, I burned some of that and have a few pieces left, very heavy stuff and really different looking wood, sinewy like mucle... Burns nice....


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## tjg911 (Jan 5, 2015)

Applesister said:


> The wood you have probably isn't Ironwood. Ironwood splits fairly straight, its stringy like hickory and the wood fibers are fine grained. Its stringy but it splits okay.
> The heartwood has a very rosey hue when first split, dusty rose and then it fades to pale tan.
> I have a couple of pieces I can show pics of. But I think you may have Rock Elm. Its nasty to split and has very interlocking grain and is extremely heavy.
> I cant give you a latin name on that without looking it up.



Thanks. This wood does not split fairly straight at all. It is twisted inside, the splits tend to be curved a bit probably due to the twisting nature of the wood. It's extremely fibrous and just refuses to split. Without the wedges I never would have gotten anywhere. The heartwood on this does have the rosy hue though. 

I know what beech looks like. The bark is smooth and has an odd grey-blue color. It can split in unpredictable ways and can be a bit dangerous. Beech splits fairly easy by hand though so I know this is not beech. 

I'll look up Rock Elm and see what I find. From what you said this is not Ironwood based upon how it is highly difficult to split. Yous said Rock Elm is very heavy so that jives with this piece.


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