# Which Wood Insert For A Small Fireplace?



## KennyK (Nov 11, 2011)

Hi Everyone, 

I am looking for a wood burning fireplace insert for a small fireplace. My fireplace has a 30"x30" opening at the front, but is only 15" deep, and just 19 1/2" wide at the back. 

I'd like to get the largest viewing window possible, preferably with the option of a screen so I can have it open at times, and of course I want the best quality stove I can find. With my measurements, my options seem pretty limited. I've been looking at the Hearthstone Morgan, The small Regency (I believe it's the i1200) and the dealer I've been talking too also mentioned there was possibly a Napoleon that would fit. I also saw a post on this site that mentioned an Enviro and perhaps there are others I don't know about. 

Any help would be greatly appreciated! I'm a first timer, who's never had a wood stove nor insert. I love the idea of burning wood to supplement my heating and having an efficient fireplace.

I live in Boston and little about my house if you're interested is that it's about 2000 sq. feet (first floor is probably about 750 sq. ft.), the fireplace is in the middle room of the first floor with a fairly open floor plan (dining room with fireplace opens to living room on one side and an open door to the kitchen on the other side. I have a ceiling fan in the room with the fireplace and the stairway to the upper two floors is also pretty open and accessible from the room with the fireplace. 

Thanks for any and all help!

KennyK


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## kingquad (Nov 11, 2011)

Enviro 1200 would fit.  1700 won't causes of your depth.  I would take a serious look at the Lopi 1750i.  I think that's the biggest one that would fit in there.  The mid sized avalon is the same stove but with different styling.  With 2000 sq ft., you want the biggest thing you can get in there.

You have plenty of height.  How deep is your hearth?  Are you open to a freestanding stove mounted on your hearth?  That would give you many more options.


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## KennyK (Nov 11, 2011)

My depth is 15". I just checked out the Lopi 1750i, and it looks like it might be too wide in the back (21-5/8") as my read width is only 19-1/2". Any thoughts on other models or the ones I mentioned? 

I'm not crazy about having a freestanding stove as the room with the fireplace isn't too large, and it would mean extending the hearth and cutting more into the space. I also like the look of the inserts. Could possibly be convinced otherwise.


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## mellow (Nov 11, 2011)

Can you post a picture of your fireplace,  just wanted to make sure it is not a pre-fab,  as that will require more research.


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## kingquad (Nov 11, 2011)

KennyK said:
			
		

> My depth is 15". I just checked out the Lopi 1750i, and it looks like it might be too wide in the back (21-5/8") as my read width is only 19-1/2". Any thoughts on other models or the ones I mentioned?
> 
> I'm not crazy about having a freestanding stove as the room with the fireplace isn't too large, and it would mean extending the hearth and cutting more into the space. I also like the look of the inserts. Could possibly be convinced otherwise.


Looks like your only going to be able to get a small insert in there.  If you're looking to heat primarily with wood, that may not cut it.  If you want an overnight burn, then you should be looking for about 2.0cuft firebox size.  The Regency Hearth Heater H2100 would probably work, but you might as well get a freestanding stove instead of one of those.

As far as hearth mounts go, take a look at the Jotul, Woodstock, and Hearthstone stoves.  These are very beautiful furniture quality stoves.


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## begreen (Nov 11, 2011)

The Jotul C450 has an adjustable depth. It can go into as little as 12.75" deep fireplace. What is the width, 13" in from the front of the fireplace? You will need 25.5" width at that point for this to fit. If it is close, a little brick grinding may make the difference. Also, how deep is the lintel on this fireplace?

Another option that might work would be to install a Regency Hearth heater. HI2100. It requires a deep hearth extension but will work with the shallowest fireplace. 

http://www.regency-fire.com/Products/Wood/Wood-Inserts/H2100.aspx#

And welcome to the forums!


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## FyreBug (Nov 11, 2011)

If you are looking for something with a large window opening, might I suggest the Osburn 1800? http://www.osburn-mfg.com/product.aspx?CategoId=7&Id=245&Page=photo 

Osburn is about the only company left that makes a 'true' bay window stove. I've got it myself in my basement fireplace.

Download the manual here: http://www.osburn-mfg.com/forcedownload.aspx?strFile=images/poeles/manuel_en/36351024102011939.pdf

It should fit in your fireplace. It's available from local dealers or online retailers like Woodland Direct http://www.woodlanddirect.com/Firep...replace-Inserts/Osburn-1800-Wood-Stove-Insert

Disclaimer: I work for Osburn.


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## KennyK (Nov 12, 2011)

mellow said:
			
		

> Can you post a picture of your fireplace,  just wanted to make sure it is not a pre-fab,  as that will require more research.



It's not a pre-fab. It's a real fireplace from approximately 1890 when the house was built. Any thoughts?


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## joel95ex (Nov 12, 2011)

on lopi's website, they have specs for inserts that show you need less rear width with a masonry fireplace vs a prefab : lopi freedom rear width is 21.25 minimum, declaration is 21.5


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## joel95ex (Nov 12, 2011)

the rear min. widths are usually wider (meaning you have more options than a prefab)with a masonry so you should be able to fit a Lopi---the republic line is the less expensive version (looks like just a different door) but same requirements as the fancier version.  also check out the jotul winterport or the model that is one size larger.  count your blessing that you have a masonry fireplace and not a prefab.  napoleon makes a couple small ones too.  I think your door/glass size is going to be roughly the same for most models.  I really like the lopi and think they are priced right.  there are many dealers who ship free on ebay if you are looking to install yourself.  just get a flex liner and you're pretty much done with the expensive stuff and heating bill


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## Jeb1heat (Nov 12, 2011)

I love the jotul inserts. I have the Winterport 350. I had hoped to get the Kennebec? 450, but the seller/installer said it would be too tight and at the time I did not want to go the modification route. They are great looking, my wife really likes the looks and that was important to her. The winterport does not have the largest firebox, hence try for the 450 if you can. The jotul site has an adobe acrobat file with each model showing opening size requirements and clearances.


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## joel95ex (Nov 12, 2011)

ooh.  that rear width is pretty small so you might have to look at an extended insert option or a freestanding stove


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## KennyK (Nov 12, 2011)

Do any of you have any word on the hearthstone Morgan. It's the smaller version of the Clydesdale. I've read good things about the Clydesdale, but that's too large for me and I don't see many reviews of the Morgan. I like the way it looks (at least the photos I've seen) and I like the idea of the soapstone retaining heat. Any thoughts?


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## joel95ex (Nov 12, 2011)

I am sure it is good. the clydesdale always gets good reviews.  As for the brand, I think it is one of the higher end ones if price has anything to do with it.  A local dealer sells their stoves and they are at least $3400.  one thing I like about many of their stoves is the option to vent out of the rear instead of top.  Not sure but i think there is a lot of talk/debate over soapstone vs cast iron.  except for some of the seriously economy brands, most of the brands out there are pretty good--- usually it comes down to narrowing it down to what fits, followed by what you want to spend...if your heating bill is a concern then price is less of a concern since you will make that back if you plan on heating with the insert and not using it for viewing a fire.  Just be patient and get what you really want one time. this is the right place to come.  also look at the pics section/install pics for ideas.  in the meantime, start building your stash of wood.


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## daveswoodhauler (Nov 12, 2011)

I think you could fit a Lopi Answer in your application...ran into the same issue as my fireplace tapers to the rear and I think it was only about 14-15" in the very back. Its a good little stove and heats the house nicely, but I would try to get something with a bigger firebox if you can


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## KennyK (Nov 12, 2011)

Thanks everyone. 

You now all have me thinking about firebox size. This is a good thing, since I didn't really understand this before. I see that a lot of people on this forum are saying that for an overnight burn, you need at least a 2.0 cu. ft. firebox. I just compared the Lopi answer (1.6) the Hearthstone Morgan (1.7) and the Regency i1200 (1.4). While I'm not really sure what the difference of .1 is in a firebox (Morgan vs. Lopi), I do feel like I should steer away from the Regency as the firebox is so small. Any thoughts? Are there any stoves that will fit my fireplace with a 2.0 cu. ft. firebox? Again, my opening is 30"x30" at the top, but only 15" deep, and my width tapers back to just 19.5" at the back. Between the shallow depth and small width at the back, I really can't find many options. 

Thanks!


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## Jeb1heat (Nov 12, 2011)

Kenny,

My insert (jotul 350) is a flush face to the masonry. I know some of the inserts have the front 1/3 or so of the firebox that protrudes out into the room/hearth. I am not sure of the exact models, (I think Quadrafire has that characteristic) and do not know if they would be more accomodating with the measurements at the back of your fireplace. Just a thought to look for those models as they may give you more box size because they come out into the room and don't have to gain all of their box size physically inside of your fireplace. Remember it would probably also alter clearances. 

When I was shopping I found a few models that I thought would work and then used the search function on this site to dig up old threads on the particular insert. In addition to feedback on the posts, that was very valuable to me. It's fun going through it all and exciting making that choice...


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## begreen (Nov 12, 2011)

KennyK said:
			
		

> Thanks everyone.
> 
> You now all have me thinking about firebox size. This is a good thing, since I didn't really understand this before. I see that a lot of people on this forum are saying that for an overnight burn, you need at least a 2.0 cu. ft. firebox. I just compared the Lopi answer (1.6) the Hearthstone Morgan (1.7) and the Regency i1200 (1.4). While I'm not really sure what the difference of .1 is in a firebox (Morgan vs. Lopi), I do feel like I should steer away from the Regency as the firebox is so small. Any thoughts? Are there any stoves that will fit my fireplace with a 2.0 cu. ft. firebox? Again, my opening is 30"x30" at the top, but only 15" deep, and my width tapers back to just 19.5" at the back. Between the shallow depth and small width at the back, I really can't find many options.
> 
> Thanks!



The C450 will do this with a 2.0+ cu ft firebox. But we need to know the width of the fireplace 13" from the front.

Also, you have more options. If you only need another inch of depth, the insert can be brought forward on the hearth that inch, and the surround can get a 1" filler behind it. Or, you could put a bigger insert in, install a damper block-off plate, and skip the surround. Or you could install a 2 cu ft freestanding stove with a rear-exit flue in that area.


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## KennyK (Nov 12, 2011)

13 inches from the back from the front opening of my fireplace is approximately 21" wide.


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## KennyK (Nov 12, 2011)

BeGreen said:
			
		

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13 inches from the back from the front opening of my fireplace is approximately 21" wide. Also, my hearth extends 18-1/2 from the opening of the fireplace - if I could pull a stove out a bit to make a larger one fit, that would be great. If I don't have to get a hearth extension, even better!

Again, thanks for the help!


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## begreen (Nov 12, 2011)

Yes, I just did a scaled drawing of the fireplace and got the same measurement.


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## KennyK (Nov 13, 2011)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> Yes, I just did a scaled drawing of the fireplace and got the same measurement.



Wow BeGreen! Taking the time to do a drawing to help me figure this out, now that's serious help Thanks! So, now that we're clearer on the measurements, any further thoughts? Based on some feedback I've been getting here, I called the dealer that I'm working with and said that I would like to find an insert that would fit with a 2.0 cu. ft. firebox. He was pretty busy and said he'd look at it on Monday. I'd love to have some of the expert input from all of you here when I talk with him. 

Thanks!


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## kingquad (Nov 13, 2011)

Are you trying to heat the entire 2000sqft?  Unless your house is super insulated, nothing with a 2.0cuft firebox is going to get it done in Boston.  You are at the upper reaches of what a medium firebox can support, plus you're prone to very harsh winters.  My recommendation is a hearth mounted Oslo or a medium-largeish freestanding sitting partially in the fireplace.  2.5-3.0cuft would be the number I'd be looking for.

This is if you are trying to heat primarily with wood.  If supplemental, then disregard.


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## KennyK (Nov 13, 2011)

kingquad said:
			
		

> Are you trying to heat the entire 2000sqft?  Unless your house is super insulated, nothing with a 2.0cuft firebox is going to get it done in Boston.  You are at the upper reaches of what a medium firebox can support, plus you're prone to very harsh winters.  My recommendation is a hearth mounted Oslo or a medium-largeish freestanding sitting partially in the fireplace.  2.5-3.0cuft would be the number I'd be looking for.
> 
> This is if you are trying to heat primarily with wood.  If supplemental, then disregard.



I'm looking more to supplement my existing heat, perhaps heat my whole first floor (approx. 750 sq. ft.) and get a bit of heat to the second floor. As I have a fireplace already and the room where it is isn't too large, I've been mostly just considering inserts. Perhaps I could be swayed towards a wood stove, but I'd be the happiest if I could find the right insert. Still looking for the one given my measurements.


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## begreen (Nov 13, 2011)

I've been checking inserts now that I have a layout of your firebox on the computer. Most inserts will either be small or will need to have a very prominent front, which will probably require a hearth extension. 

Can you post a picture of the fireplace? It sounds like it is tailor made for a nice hearth stove. I'm thinking a Woodstock Keystone or Hearthstone Shelburne for starters.


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## KennyK (Nov 13, 2011)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> I've been checking inserts now that I have a layout of your firebox on the computer. Most inserts will either be small or will need to have a very prominent front, which will probably require a hearth extension.
> 
> Can you post a picture of the fireplace? It sounds like it is tailor made for a nice hearth stove. I'm thinking a Woodstock Keystone or Hearthstone Shelburne for starters.



Here are two pics. Let me know if you need any more/different angle, etc. 

I have my heart set on an insert for a few reasons (feel free to tell me your thoughts):

1) I like that it gives the feel of more of a "real" fireplace 

2) The room it's in isn't huge, so I will loose more of the room with a freestanding stove, even versus an insert that sticks out a bit and just having to extend the hearth a bit. 

3) I have small children and it strikes me as a little less of a danger being pushed into the fireplace (either way I'll probably have to get a gate for the next few years). 

4) I've heard the inserts are better at heating larger portions of the house, vs. the freestanding which is better at heating the room it's in - don't know if this is true. 

Again, the room it's in has a ceiling fan, and the floor plan is pretty open (not completely) including a pretty open area up to the second floor. 

Thanks!

Kenny


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## begreen (Nov 13, 2011)

Thanks Kenny, that is a big help. The photo points out another serious issue, clearance to combustibles. I'm assuming you don't want to touch the nice woodwork, so this will affect the decisions. The good news is that it looks like a nice generous hearth. I am thinking about a stove half in the fireplace so that you can maintain 16" from the stove glass to the front edge of the hearth. 

As for the concerns, they are reasonable, but not all based on the correct assumptions. Personally I think an insert will look wrong there unless carefully styled. This fireplace has a period look. It will require a custom surround because of it's tall aspect. Filling that area with a modern rectangular box is going to work against the visual lines, in my personal opinion. A classic look of a Castine, Shelburne or Woodstock stove is going to be much more in character. The issue with children is the same regardless. They need to learn that the stove is hot and will cause a bad owee. Fortunately, they usually learn this very quickly. If still concerned put a child safety gate in front. I'm not sure where the last conjecture came from, but in general you will get better heating from the freestanding stove.


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## jatoxico (Nov 13, 2011)

I agree w/ BG. A free standing stove will look better in that very nice fireplace. This is coming from an insert guy. Free stander does not require fans to get the heat into the room either. My fans are quiet but not as quiet as no fans.


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## KennyK (Nov 13, 2011)

jatoxico said:
			
		

> I agree w/ BG. A free standing stove will look better in that very nice fireplace. This is coming from an insert guy. Free stander does not require fans to get the heat into the room either. My fans are quiet but not as quiet as no fans.



Thanks guys. Hmmmm, this is a new development because I've been pretty wed to the insert idea. I guess that's part of why I'm here on the site!

As you can see in my pics, I have a marble hearth that extends 18-1/2" and then a wood floor. Would I need to put something down in front of the marble? Part of my concern is cutting into the space of the room with the fireplace (which is not that large).  I'll only be able to get the stove so far into the fireplace - while my opening is 30" in the front it quickly tapers off to 19-1/2" at the back (again, only 15 inches deep). If I do go the the direction of the freestanding stove, I saw a very good deal on a Hearthstone Heritage in my area, but it looks like that might be too big (I don't think I could even get the back legs into the fireplace).  

As for the heating of the freestanding vs. the insert, does the heat get to other parts of the house as easily? 

Thanks!


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## jatoxico (Nov 13, 2011)

KennyK said:
			
		

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Free standers are probably better heaters. With an insert the sides and back of the stove are not exposed to room air and need the fans to get that heat out. Not that inserts are bad heaters but I think free standers are better. In the same way inserts that extend onto the hearth are better heaters than fully flush inserts like my Jotul and can throw some decent heat w/o their fans on.

For looks I would want to show off as much of that marble as possible. The legs of a free stander will allow a nice view of the marble underneath and no surround to cover up the sides. Just clean up the existing firebox.


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## KennyK (Nov 14, 2011)

jatoxico said:
			
		

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Well, you all have got me thinking now. I also got an email from the dealer I've been working with and he said he doesn't think there's any insert with a 2.0 cu. ft. firebox that will fit. I also forgot to mention that my fireplace has a beautiful black metal heat reflector around the whole inside, which when cleaned up should look very nice with its intricate design. 

Now, however, if I do go in the freestanding stove direction, I still don't think I'll be able to get much of the stove in the fireplace as it tapers so quickly. At about 4 inches into the fireplace I'm at around 26" wide. How much (if at all) will I have to extend my hearth? Is that an easy enough job? Expensive? 

Thanks!


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## begreen (Nov 14, 2011)

The Hearthstone Heritage is a side-loading stove that would need to sit our further. The Tribute is a front loader and might work better. 

Can you provide the following dimensions?
What is the distance between the hearth and the bottom of the mantle where it projects more than 1"?
What is the the distance from the center of the fireplace to the nearest side wood work?


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## KennyK (Nov 14, 2011)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> Can you provide the following dimensions.
> What is the distance between the hearth and the bottom of the mantle where it projects more than 1"?
> What is the the distance from the center of the fireplace to the nearest side wood work?



For the first questions, do you mean from the ground (on top of the marble hearth) to the bottom of the mantle where it projects more than 1"? If so, that's approx. 35"

The distance from the center of the fireplace to the nearest side woodwork is 21"


BeGreen, while you've encouraged me to be more open to a freestanding stove, I'm still trying to explore the options of the inserts. I believe the morgan will fit and that has a 1.7 inch firebox, which is close to the 2.0. Do you, or anyone else here have any thoughts about the Morgan? I read a lot of good things about the Clydesdale, but I can't find much info on the Morgan. 

Thanks!

Kenny


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## Dix (Nov 14, 2011)

Kenny, if you can go with a stove, go for it.


I shoulda got a stove instead of the insert.


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## KennyK (Nov 14, 2011)

Doing The Dixie Eyed Hustle said:
			
		

> Kenny, if you can go with a stove, go for it.
> 
> 
> I shoulda got a stove instead of the insert.



Thanks for the advice Eileen, I seem to be getting a lot of encouragement for the stove. Can you let me know you reasons? 

One of the reasons I mentioned I wanted the insert was to have it look like more of a "real" fireplace. A lot of people here seem to think that the freestanding stove partially inside the original fireplace looks nicer. Reasons? 

Kenny


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## Dix (Nov 14, 2011)

KennyK said:
			
		

> Doing The Dixie Eyed Hustle said:
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Forget the "real fireplace Idea (and I'll talk to the wife, if need be  %-P ) It doesn't get the job done.



I would have put the stove in a more "heat conductive" area of the house. Now, I'm looking at adding another stove to get it all heated ( that'd make 3, I'll be like Browning Bar  ;-)

 )

My den, where the PE is, is a narrow room (12" wide  X 19" long), it opens to an open floor plan. Stove in the FP wasn't going to work, due to the width of the room.


If you have the room, go for it.


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## KennyK (Nov 14, 2011)

Doing The Dixie Eyed Hustle said:
			
		

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Funny assumption about the wife wanting the "real fireplace" That's me My wife just wants it to be VERY warm in our house

Seriously though, I have felt that the insert looks neater and that the stove in front of the fireplace (or partially in it) looks out of place. Now I'm starting to reconsider. It's hard to tell what the final look will be as I'm going by pictures of inserts (I've never actually seen one live in a house, believe it or not), and they always look very neat. However, that may not be the case with my fireplace. 

I guess of more importance, as my wife would concur, is the heating potential. 

Kenny


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## fredarm (Nov 14, 2011)

The Heritage has front and side loading doors according to the Chimneysweep website.  Another thought would be the Hearthstone Homestead which is designed as a fireplace hearthmount stove.


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## KennyK (Nov 14, 2011)

fredarm said:
			
		

> The Heritage has front and side loading doors according to the Chimneysweep website.  Another thought would be the Hearthstone Homestead which is designed as a fireplace hearthmount stove.



Thanks Fred, 

I love how the Homestead looks, but to me it looks just like a regular wood stove. What makes it a fireplace hearthmount? 

I was asking about the Hearthstone Heritage, because someone in my area is selling one that is supposedly brand new, never used, for $1800. Seems like a very good deal, but the problem is I think it may be too large for my fireplace area. My opening is 30" X 30", but quickly tapers off in back is 29" height by 29.5" width. I won't really be able to get it into the chimney at all, but if it's a very good deal on a great stove, maybe I should go for it and just stick it in front of the fireplace and then set up a whole new hearth. Incidentally the depth of the Heritage is 21.5", and my hearth goes out 18.5, so it wouldn't even be able to sit completely on my marble hearth. Thoughts? 

Kenny


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## begreen (Nov 14, 2011)

This is going to be challenging. The issue I keep running into is clearance to combustibles, namely the side trim and mantel.


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## begreen (Nov 14, 2011)

KennyK said:
			
		

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Let me take a look. It may turn out to be one of the best options. It would just squeak in if all dimensions are accurate. There may need to be some mantel shielding, the dimensions are close there too.

Download this document and you will see how close things are. It's a squeaker, but may be possible with a good installer. But the mantle still looks like an issue. 

http://www.hearthstonestoves.com/assets/files/document_library/schematic-morgan-select.pdf

This is completely out of left field, but do you have natural gas in the house?


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## KennyK (Nov 14, 2011)

> This is completely out of left field, but do you have natural gas in the house?



I do have natural gas in the house, and the dealer has suggested I should get a gas stove. Call me a romantic, but I love the idea of burning wood Seems like I've got a lot of company on this site!


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## begreen (Nov 14, 2011)

If no wood burning options pan out for this fireplace consider installing a classy unit like a Valor Portrait. 
http://www.valorfireplaces.com/products/portrait_zeroclearance.php

Then look around and consider putting in a freestanding stove in a location without too many complications or an insert in a deeper fireplace is that is an option.


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## KennyK (Nov 14, 2011)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> If no wood burning options pan out for this fireplace consider installing a classy unit like a Valor Portrait.
> http://www.valorfireplaces.com/products/portrait_zeroclearance.php
> 
> Then look around and consider putting in a freestanding stove in a location without too many complications or an insert in a deeper fireplace is that is an option.



Wow, those are classy! Why don't they make wood inserts like that? 

Do you feel that putting in a small insert is a waste of time? 

I'll have to look into the clearance issues of a wood stove more as I'm now beginning to explore that option. The location of my fireplace is pretty ideal as it's right in the middle of the first floor. I'm not sure where else I could put a stove in my house that would make sense.


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## begreen (Nov 14, 2011)

Waste of time, no. Wood heat is nice. My concern is whether it can be done safely in this location given the constraints and surrounding woodwork. What did the dealer have to say about the Morgan? Also, a Lopi Revere almost works except for the woodwork.


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## KennyK (Nov 14, 2011)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> Waste of time, no. Wood heat is nice. My concern is whether it can be done safely in this location given the constraints and surrounding woodwork. What did the dealer have to say about the Morgan? Also, a Lopi Revere almost works except for the woodwork.



What I meant by a small stove being a waste of time was really would I find myself frustrated at how frequently I would have to fill it and how much space it would heat (for something like the regency i1200). 

As for the Morgan, the dealer hasn't gotten back to me about it. For now all he's suggested is the Altera (which he said would "just" fit) and the Regency i1200. He said he's still looking into other possibilities (this is their busy season and I'm getting a lot more help here!) 

The lopi revere looks nice! I also read a very favorable post about the Hearthstone Homestead and I love the way that one looks - what do you think? As far as the Hearthstone Heritage that someone was selling cheap in my area, I made a call and it's sold, so I can take that one off the list! Incidentally, the guy who was selling it told me he loved it and was just selling due to remodeling.


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## fredarm (Nov 15, 2011)

In response to your earlier question, the Homestead is shallower than many stoves so that it will stick out less.  It also has 4 inch legs instead of 6 inch legs so it will take up less height.  The Chimney Sweep Online has a nice page on it.  

http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/hshmstd.htm


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## KennyK (Nov 15, 2011)

fredarm said:
			
		

> In response to your earlier question, the Homestead is shallower than many stoves so that it will stick out less.  It also has 4 inch legs instead of 6 inch legs so it will take up less height.  The Chimney Sweep Online has a nice page on it.
> 
> http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/hshmstd.htm



Thanks! 

I'm starting to have a love affair with the Homestead (at least from what I see online), but man is it expensive! I've started to look around and I see a few used options locally. What do you all think about buying a used stove? As a complete novice, how can I know it's not cracked or with some other problem? How old is too old? Any other thoughts on this would be helpful. 

I also need to see if it will fit in my area in terms of code with surround wood, etc., but it seems like a great option. 

Thanks!


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## begreen (Nov 15, 2011)

KennyK said:
			
		

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A smaller stove is still going to heat. It will need to be fed more frequently than a large firebox and that will affect overnight burn times. But as an area heater, a 1.4 cu ft stove can do a very good job.


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## fredarm (Nov 15, 2011)

Yeah, the soapstone stoves are beautiful but expensive.  Woodstock has a nice sale going on now on theirs, but they're all side-loaders which will limit how far back you can put it in the fireplace.  Used stoves can be a good buy, but you have to be careful.  Don't buy a pre-EPA (1989) stove--they are smoke dragons generally and eat more wood.  Look for signs of abuse and overfiring--a whitish color on black stoves and cracks in the cast iron or steel.  Gaskets can be replaced, light rust can be sanded off and the stove repainted. Avoid used Vermont Castings stoves, they seem to have issues.  Be very certain of your clearances and dimensions--used stoves can't be returned and there are a few folks around here who have bought used stoves only to find they won't fit.


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## KennyK (Nov 15, 2011)

fredarm said:
			
		

> Yeah, the soapstone stoves are beautiful but expensive.  Woodstock has a nice sale going on now on theirs, but they're all side-loaders which will limit how far back you can put it in the fireplace.  Used stoves can be a good buy, but you have to be careful.  Don't buy a pre-EPA (1989) stove--they are smoke dragons generally and eat more wood.  Look for signs of abuse and overfiring--a whitish color on black stoves and cracks in the cast iron or steel.  Gaskets can be replaced, light rust can be sanded off and the stove repainted. Avoid used Vermont Castings stoves, they seem to have issues.  Be very certain of your clearances and dimensions--used stoves can't be returned and there are a few folks around here who have bought used stoves only to find they won't fit.



Thanks! I'm corresponding with someone about a used Hearthstone Homestead right now. They say it's only a year old - again, if you have any further thoughts about what I should look for when checking it out (specific to this stove) that would be great. 

Kenny


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## fredarm (Nov 15, 2011)

With a soapstone stove look for cracks in the stone.  It can be harder to see signs of overfiring (less metal to turn white) but if the inside looks beat, the stove probably was.  I'm not familiar with the Homestead in particular (other than admiring pictures of it on the Chimney Sweep web site), but in general, make sure any control levers move smoothly and the baffle and tubes in the top (or whatever it has) are in good shape.  If it's connected and you can see it burn, so much the better!  Good luck and let us know how it turns out.


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## begreen (Nov 15, 2011)

KennyK said:
			
		

> fredarm said:
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Before proceeding, check the clearances requirements for this stove. I don't have the manual with me right now, but IIRC there are conflicts on the sides and with the mantel. Also, this is a wide stove which means it will not sit very far back in the opening. It will be sitting mostly on the hearth.


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## KennyK (Nov 15, 2011)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> KennyK said:
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Thanks again BeGreen, 

I just looked at the Homestead manual, and I find it very confusing. If you can help me determine if it would work with my setup, that would be great. Let me know if you need any more measurements from me. A couple factors that I'm wondering are if the stove has a fan does that make any difference in the setup (the used one I'm looking at has a fan), also if being in or in front of a fireplace makes a difference in terms of clearance (also the brick in my fireplace is covered by metal). I have also decided that I'm not opposed to extending my hearth with a hearth pad, especially if it doesn't have to be too big, and I am also not opposed to putting up some sort of a metal piece under the top (or along the sides) of the mantel - but I don't really know what I'm getting into here!

Lastly, I just spoke with my home insurance agent. He told it wouldn't affect my insurance as long as I had a UL approved receipt, made sure it complied with regulation and had it fire inspected. When I mentioned that I might be buying a used stove, he told me to check online to make sure that the model is UL approved if bought used. Any thoughts on that one? Ideas about how to figure out if buying used it is still UL approved?

Thanks


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## begreen (Nov 16, 2011)

I would give up on the Homestead unless you are prepared for serious changes to the fireplace. The Homestead has high hearth insulation requirements and in this fireplace is not close for clearances.


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## KennyK (Nov 16, 2011)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> I would give up on the Homestead unless you are prepared for serious changes to the fireplace. The Homestead has high hearth insulation requirements and in this fireplace is not close for clearances.



BeGreen, first, you are amazing! I can't believe you made this photo for me Thanks!

Now, unfortunately, I want the homestead even more after seeing this photo It looks sooooo good there - like it's meant to be! I also spoke with a guy tonight who is selling a used one about an hour drive from me. He said it's in great shape, hasn't been used much, has a fan, and he wants $1400, which seemed pretty fair. 

What would I need to do to make the homestead work in my fireplace? Could I get some sort of fireplace shield? What if I got the optional surround kit? 

Kenny


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## kingquad (Nov 16, 2011)

KennyK said:
			
		

> BeGreen said:
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Unfortunately, that mantle would have to go away completely.  You would probably have to do some demo to the wall as well, just to meet safe clearance to combustibles.  Nice thing about that is that you can reface it anyway you choose.  Stone veneer, tile, whatever.  Depending on what the floor under the stove is made of, you may need to build the hearth up to meet the thermal insulation requirements of this stove.  They are quite high.

Basically, this is a very big job before you can even think about installing this thing.


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## KennyK (Nov 16, 2011)

kingquad said:
			
		

> KennyK said:
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Well, I guess this stove is out of the question :-(   Back to the drawing board. So, going back to square one, any thoughts on a nice insert that will work or a nice stove that will work for this area? My hopes are something that will heat well, burn for a while without having to add more wood, have a nice large window (as large as I can get in any case), and look nice overall. 

Kenny


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## KennyK (Nov 17, 2011)

Ok friends, I'm still working on this and could use some help! What about the lopi endeavor? It has very low clearance requirements, and it seems to fit (perhaps) partially into my fireplace. One issue I'm seeing is that it says on their site that with steal legs it's 29 1/4 tall, which would just make it into my 30" tall fireplace. However, it says that those legs are discontinued And, with the sculptured or cast legs that it now comes with, it's 30 5/8. Is this for real!?!?! Can I still get one with the steal legs? Other thoughts? It looks like a great stove.


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## begreen (Nov 17, 2011)

I looked at the Endeavor this morning and came to the conclusion that most stoves will not work because of either the clearances to combustibles or the rear slope of the firebox. There may be a shallow 15" at the back bottom of the fireplace, but what is the distance from the front of the fireplace at the lintel to the back of the fireplace? That appears to be the limiting factor, but you have the tape measure. Also check at the insert in question's height, from the front to the back.


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## KennyK (Nov 17, 2011)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> I looked at the Endeavor this morning and came to the conclusion that most stoves will not work because of either the clearances to combustibles or the rear slope of the firebox. There may be a shallow 15" at the back bottom of the fireplace, but what is the distance from the front of the fireplace at the lintel to the back of the fireplace? That appears to be the limiting factor, but you have the tape measure. Also check at the insert in question's height, from the front to the back.



I'm not 100 percent sure if I understand what exactly I need to measure here, but I'll try my best. I just remeasured and it looks like from the front of my fireplace at the top to the back it's closer to 14-3/4 inches than 15 as I had thought (even more of a bummer!). From what I understand the lintel to be, it doesn't hang down lower than the 30 inches height of the fireplace opening, but it starts about an inch (or a little less) in from the front, which has a half inch or so of marble. So, from the edge of the lintel to the back of the fireplace it's about 13 3/4" or 14." If I get an insert, can't I pull it out a bit so it's completely flush? Are there no wood stoves that will work (and kick of a lot of heat for a long time)! There must be lots of people in the northeast with fireplaces like this (my house like others around here was built in the late 1800s). Aren't there companies that make stoves for older fireplaces? 

Thanks again BeGreen, you're a HUGE help. The dealer I've been talking with is very unresponsive. He did make a trip to my house and I understand this is their busy season so I'm not completely writing him off, but if I don't get more input from him soon, I'm going to look around for another dealer. 

Thanks!

Kenny


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## KennyK (Nov 18, 2011)

Any further thoughts?


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## begreen (Nov 18, 2011)

You have a few small insert options. The primary limitations are the depth, rear width and clearances to combustibles. Secondary issues will be the look. It would be a shame to tear out the woodwork to accomplish clearances for a bigger insert of freestanding stove. That's why I suggested thinking about the Valor for this location. 

There is one option that might be worth considering and talking with a good dealer about. That would be installing a Morso 1710 insert either without any surround or with a custom surround. It has a clean look that would work well visually with this location. The insert is about 3/4" too deep, but a good installer could disguise this. The 1710 is strictly a convective insert, no blower option. A mantel shield would be required, probably at the top of the lintel. With its small firebox it would be an area heater only. 

http://www.morsona.com/index.php/inserts/morso-1710.html
dimensions:
http://www.morsoeusa.com/Files/Billeder/Morsoe/CAD/US ovne/1700-101_Isometrisk_mÃ¥lskitse_1710_NA_klippet_inches.jpg

If the goal is better heating and a traditional steel stove is ok, then I like the Lopi Answer insert with a blower as a fitting solution.
http://www.lopistoves.com/product_guide/detail.aspx?id=253


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## KennyK (Nov 19, 2011)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> You have a few small insert options. The primary limitations are the depth, rear width and clearances to combustibles. Secondary issues will be the look. It would be a shame to tear out the woodwork to accomplish clearances for a bigger insert of freestanding stove. That's why I suggested thinking about the Valor for this location.
> 
> There is one option that might be worth considering and talking with a good dealer about. That would be installing a Morso 1710 insert either without any surround or with a custom surround. It has a clean look that would work well visually with this location. The insert is about 3/4" too deep, but a good installer could disguise this. The 1710 is strictly a convective insert, no blower option. A mantel shield would be required, probably at the top of the lintel. With its small firebox it would be an area heater only.
> 
> ...




I'm feeling discouraged. When I began my interest in a good stove, I never realized I would have such a hard time. The dealer recommended the regency i1200 (.2 smaller of a firebox than the lopi answer). I'm feeling like if I get a really small stove, I'm going to be unhappy with the heat production and burn times. So, what to do? A couple questions: is it possible to do some masonry work and make my fireplace larger? I've had one person tell me this was possible and another tell me it was unsafe. If it is possible, how big/expensive of a job is this? If I am going to modify, how big/expensive of a job is it to take out my mantle and replace with something simple, but that will allow me to get a bigger insert or freestanding stove? 

BeGreen, I know you say it's a shame to take out this mantle (and I agree it is very nice), but what other options do I have? In any case, if these jobs cost a lot, it may be prohibitive. 

Thoughts? 

Thanks, 

Kenny


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## begreen (Nov 19, 2011)

The Answer is not a bad stove. We have a lot of happy owners here. 

I would not modify the fireplace structure. However, the mantel and trim are all surface and could be changed to accommodate a hearth stove. Though the look would be different, it could be tastefully done.


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## KennyK (Nov 19, 2011)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> The Answer is not a bad stove. We have a lot of happy owners here.
> 
> I would not modify the fireplace structure. However, the mantel and trim are all surface and could be changed to accommodate a hearth stove. Though the look would be different, it could be tastefully done.



Thanks BeGreen. I forgot to mention that the dealer said that the alterra would fit ("just barely" were his words). I'm assuming he means the CI1200 and not the CI1250. Does that seem right to you? And if so, do you think that's better, worse or equal to the answer? How long of a burn time do you think I can get out of these stoves and how much space do you think they'll heat with my ceiling fan on reverse? 

Kenny


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## begreen (Nov 19, 2011)

I looked at the Alterra this morning and my preference was for the Lopi Answer with the larger firebox.


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## fredarm (Nov 19, 2011)

Just remember, any insert is better than an open fireplace.  I was limited to a small insert by the size of my fireplace, but I still love it.  Do I wish it was a little bigger sometimes?  Sure.  But it is what it is and it puts out a lot of heat for its size.  Your fireplace is too beautiful to tear out IMO.


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## KennyK (Nov 19, 2011)

Thanks again everyone!

Okay, so is there absolutely no chance that I can get a lopi 1750 or lopi endeavor in there? I'm happy to put up any heat shield and extend the hearth. Thoughts?


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## jjs777_fzr (Dec 1, 2011)

What I would do....

Just go out and buy any free standing stove - hook the thing up and start burning wood and enjoying the benefits.
No doubt the help here in this thread is fantastic but you've over analyzed the whole thing and have lots of options (were on page 4 lol)

The above assumes clearances are met for top bottom and sides etc etc.

If you need help lifting something - I'll give you a hand - I work on state st and live a 20 miles north - my parents are in winthrop.

I'm not trying to be a buzz kill here..but for me I like 'seeing' how things look then trying it out...and switching it out and seeing something else.
I may also be addicted to warm cozy fires whether by wood or coal or pellet.

For example you could pick up anyone of various stoves on craigslist for short money and see how it is.
Then upgrade later and whatever you got and didnt like just throw on cl again or ebay.

-John


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