# holy cow.... kuma stove Vs. Buck



## dvs14 (Dec 1, 2010)

I just bought a Kuma stove (Sequoia).  Never had heard of it, could hardly find anything about it.  But I went out on a limb and took a chance with this stove.  I bought a Buck 74 last year and it was rated to heat up to 2500 sq. feet.  I just gave up and decided that my 12 foot ceilings and brick non insulated walls were too much for any stove.

I decided to just get another stove for the other chimney/room.

The room was smaller, so I put the new one in the original spot of the Buck 74.  After an hour of heave ho switching the 2 stoves, I lit this kuma.  Hoping for the best.

Holy crap.  2 hours later............   30 degrees out.  I am opening doors and letting the heat up to the other rooms.  There isn't even coals in the bottom yet.

Was I doing something wrong with this Buck 74?  Do I call Buck and tell them what I am saying to you?  Do I sell the Buck immediately?  Any ideas would be wonderful,  but I honestly don't even want to go to the trouble of hooking this Buck up to the other Chimney after the performance difference.

Please let me know your thoughts.  Thanks in advance


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## Todd (Dec 1, 2010)

The Kuma is a huge cat stove. Switch the two around and use the Kuma as your primary stove and the Buck to help out as needed.


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## dvs14 (Dec 1, 2010)

Still, the wood loads are very similar.  Does the cat make that big of a difference?

The 74 barely heated 1000 feet. to 65 degrees


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## dvs14 (Dec 1, 2010)

I am considering calling Buck.  Please someone let me know if this is normal performance, or if I have a lemon


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## jhoff310 (Dec 1, 2010)

Rook You got yourself a darn good stove with that KUMA.  I might be a little biased because I own 1 but I think they are fantastic. Just not as well known as the big boys. I have the tamarack which is a non cat stove and LOVE IT


Jeff


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## dvs14 (Dec 1, 2010)

Let me tell you something.   This thing is the S___.  I cant believe it.  I just dont know what to do with my Buck that seems to have the equivalent of a D battery powered fan


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## BrowningBAR (Dec 1, 2010)

Todd said:
			
		

> The Kuma is a huge cat stove. Switch the two around and use the Kuma as your primary stove and the Buck to help out as needed.




I'm with Todd. Switch the stoves around.


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## cityhick (Dec 1, 2010)

my wife is allways opening the windows because its too hot in our house. I must have one of the good Buck 74 inserts.


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## dvs14 (Dec 1, 2010)

Is yours newer, or older.

It just didn't even compare.  Does this seem correct to you or should I email Buck.  I am not trying to be difficult.  I just don't know.


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## Idahokid (Dec 1, 2010)

We had the Kuma wood classic and it heated 2000 square foot house.Kuma is down  the street here in Hayden Idaho.Best service in town.We had the Kuma downstairs and a little quad wood burner upstairs.


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## BrowningBAR (Dec 1, 2010)

rook14 said:
			
		

> Is yours newer, or older.
> 
> It just didn't even compare.  Does this seem correct to you or should I email Buck.  I am not trying to be difficult.  I just don't know.



I find it odd that a stove that should be able to heat 2000 sq ft is having problems heating an area. You should post some pics of the stove and room and give us some details about the chimney setup and home layout.


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## dvs14 (Dec 1, 2010)

Hey Browning Bar.  Thanks for your interest.  Heres the deal. 

SImilar to your old house probably.  35 foot chimney.  Buck 74 and outdoor burner was the ticket last year, but went through tons of wood.  The 74 just wasn't putting out the heat.

We kept it wide open, burned oak and wanted it to heat about 1000 square feet to a comfortable level.  I read about peoples experience with wood stoves........ Tshirts, open windows, blah blah blah.  No luck for us.  We were freezing.  This is after 7500 worth of stoves.  Enter this Kuma tonight.  Im about to throw a party, I am finally warm.

Let me know what you think.  The 74 is prob. still under warranty.....


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## pgmr (Dec 1, 2010)

Have you used the Buck this year?  You mentioned getting it last year.  Perhaps your wood supply was not properly seasoned last year?

Are you closing the primary air supply down as the fire gets up to temp?  If not, then most of your heat will be going up the chimney.

Is this a freestanding stove or fireplace insert application (Buck 74 can be used as either and so can the Sequoia)?  Do you have the optional blower for the Buck?  If not, you won't get nearly as much heat out of it as you could.  The 74 looks quite similar to our 80, so I am guessing that it also has a shell around the firebox on 5 sides to allow cool air to enter and be warmed up and re-enter the room.  Without a blower, you won't get enough airflow through it to quickly heat up the air in the house.


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## dvs14 (Dec 1, 2010)

Thank you for your info.  but yes.  we have been choking it down.  We are using the exact same wood and we have the blower.  I am a name brand guy, but I am concerned I may have gotten a lemon  if that is possible.  It works, but I didn't know how crappy it was working until we put the new one in tonight.

Thanks,


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## CSCPeter (Dec 1, 2010)

The Buck has a Btu rating of 40,900 and the Kuma has a rating of 65,000 just a little difference, and those are the EPA Btu ratings


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## BrowningBAR (Dec 1, 2010)

CSCPeter said:
			
		

> The Buck has a Btu rating of 40,900 and the Kuma has a rating of 65,000 just a little difference, and those are the EPA Btu ratings




I'm pretty sure the Buck's BTU's are measured differently.


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## dvs14 (Dec 1, 2010)

I like Kumas calculations better  LOL   ....  But seriously, I was getting the much better performance from the same amount of wood that I would have put in the 74.

Is it possible that the kuma techncology is that much better or is something wrong with the buck  It seems that the Buck fan is a problem to begin with.  Can I upgrade or see if this is faulty  Because its pretty weak.


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## BrowningBAR (Dec 1, 2010)

rook14 said:
			
		

> I like Kumas calculations better  LOL   ....  But seriously, I was getting the much better performance from the same amount of wood that I would have put in the 74.
> 
> Is it possible that the kuma techncology is that much better or is something wrong with the buck  It seems that the Buck fan is a problem to begin with.  Can I upgrade or see if this is faulty  Because its pretty weak.



Are both chimneys the same? What is the difference between the two setups besides the stoves?


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## dvs14 (Dec 1, 2010)

nothing other than the fact that the Sequoia is a Cat,  I just took the other stove out and am about to put it in another part of the house with less heating needs.  But I am considering selling the buck for another one of these.  But the buck is less than a year old.  I want to make sure nothing is wrong with it.

Thanks for your input


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## BrowningBAR (Dec 1, 2010)

rook14 said:
			
		

> nothing other than the fact that the Sequoia is a Cat,  I just took the other stove out and am about to put it in another part of the house with less heating needs.  But I am considering selling the buck for another one of these.  But the buck is less than a year old.  I want to make sure nothing is wrong with it.
> 
> Thanks for your input




I still think that the Buck could be losing heat up the chimney or that it is in a far draftier room. But, if you are ready to sell the Buck for another Kuma, and you are comfortable doing that, than go for it. Burning in a stove that gives you the heat output that you are looking for is better than trying to get a poor performing stove to work a little better.

But, before you sell the Buck and get another Kuma, make sure that the poor performance is due to the stove and not the setup/room/house leakiness so you don't end up with a poor performing Kuma.


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## dvs14 (Dec 1, 2010)

One last thing..........   I don't think I have made myself clear.   I just removed the Buck and put a Kuma in.   It is literally apples to apples as far as the room chimney etc


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## learnin to burn (Dec 1, 2010)

Rook14 - You said you were even using the same wood, Does that mean it's coming from the same stack that is just a year older. Meaning it is seasoned 18-24 months now vs. 8 - 12 months last year? If this is the case I suspect your problem with the Buck was your wood not being seasoned enough.


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## pgmr (Dec 1, 2010)

Your 35' chimney is probably the biggest contributing factor to your poor performance with the Buck.  Even with all the primary controls closed, the draw from a chimney that tall is going to be pulling a tremendous amount of air though the Buck stove (primary air controls aren't really air tight + the secondaries are always wide open).  Even with our short 13' liner, I normally burn with the primaries closed all the way or just barely cracked open. 

The cat stoves have a built in damper in the form of the catalyst, which slows the airflow down, increasing the dwell time of the hot air in the stove.  

You haven't mentioned any actual temperature readings for the Buck.  Best place for surface temp readings is right above the door, since most of the outside is double wall.


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## Backwoods Savage (Dec 1, 2010)

Welcome to the forum rook14.

Folks could maybe understand more if you describe your wood. What kind of wood is this? When was it cut to firewood length? When was it split? How was it stacked? How long was it stacked?

It is very possible there could be a huge difference in those 2 stoves but I would not yet call the Buck a lemon.


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## cityhick (Dec 1, 2010)

I don't know anything about the kuma.I just know that my buck 74 keeps us plent warm and it doesn't eat through the wood


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## BrowningBAR (Dec 1, 2010)

Backwoods Savage said:
			
		

> Welcome to the forum rook14.
> 
> Folks could maybe understand more if you describe your wood. What kind of wood is this? When was it cut to firewood length? When was it split? How was it stacked? How long was it stacked?
> 
> It is very possible there could be a huge difference in those 2 stoves but I would not yet call the Buck a lemon.




How could wood be a factor? Both are new, EPA stoves and the Kuma is a cat stove with the Kuma performing better.


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## gzecc (Dec 1, 2010)

Sounds like a Kuma sales person to me!


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## Todd (Dec 1, 2010)

pgmr said:
			
		

> Your 35' chimney is probably the biggest contributing factor to your poor performance with the Buck.  Even with all the primary controls closed, the draw from a chimney that tall is going to be pulling a tremendous amount of air though the Buck stove (primary air controls aren't really air tight + the secondaries are always wide open).  Even with our short 13' liner, I normally burn with the primaries closed all the way or just barely cracked open.
> 
> The cat stoves have a built in damper in the form of the catalyst, which slows the airflow down, increasing the dwell time of the hot air in the stove.
> 
> You haven't mentioned any actual temperature readings for the Buck.  Best place for surface temp readings is right above the door, since most of the outside is double wall.



I agree, that tall chimney is drafting like a Hoover and I'm betting your losing a lot of heat up the stack. Pipe damper would be a good fix. Like mentioned above a cat stove already has a built in damper and is more controlable than a non cat.


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## rwm001 (Dec 1, 2010)

I have a Buck 74 insert, 25 liner, ceiling fan, 10 foot ceilings in a old brick home. No insulation in the walls. I wanted to change my stove out, but the installer said not to waste my money. He said the Buck is an excellent stove. Now you have me thinking again that there may be hope for a warm downstairs if I would get a different stove. If it below 30 degrees- the front room might get to 70.
Glad to hear you have positive results with the new stove


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