# Osage Oragne and Black Locust time to maturity...



## Intheswamp (Jun 12, 2011)

How long does it take osage orange and black locust when planted from seed to get big enough for firewood harvesting?

Ed


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## smokinj (Jun 12, 2011)

Both are slow growing! 30+ years from seed.


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## Intheswamp (Jun 12, 2011)

smokinjay said:
			
		

> Both are slow growing! 30+ years from seed.


Well, I'll scratch that hair-brained idea!! 

Thanks for the info, Jay.

Ed


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## smokinj (Jun 12, 2011)

Intheswamp said:
			
		

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Ash is a nice quick growing tree, and a great burning wood.


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## Intheswamp (Jun 12, 2011)

I just found this paper   "The Black Locust in Alabama" from "THE AGRICULTURAL EXPERIMENT STATION
OF THE ALABAMA POLYTECHNIC INSTITUTE", apparently in Auburn, Alabama....circa 1935.

It shows a 1/2" diameter black locust tree at 8 years old from seed....

Interesting, but I think that I'll hunt around and see if I can find some existing local stands...

Ed

ETA:  According to range maps BL only gets into northern Alabama...but I'll keep my eyes open.  Hedge I'll look for further north of me.


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## smokinj (Jun 12, 2011)

Intheswamp said:
			
		

> I just found this paper "The Black Locust in Alabama" from "THE AGRICULTURAL EXPERIMENT STATION
> OF THE ALABAMA POLYTECHNIC INSTITUTE", apparently in Auburn, Alabama....circa 1935.
> 
> It shows a 1/2" diameter black locust tree at 8 years old from seed....
> ...



Being warmer there anyways softwoods is a better answer!


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## Backwoods Savage (Jun 12, 2011)

Just beware of the hybrid trees. Yes, most of them grow fast but the roots are monsters and most have more limbs than a pin oak.....and that's saying a lot. Most are also wetter than cottowood when you cut them, stink to high Heaven and are about as light as paper when dry. That does not make for very good firewood.


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## weatherguy (Jun 12, 2011)

I planted a dogwood in my yard in 1995 and I looked at some pics of my house from 95 and that tree has grown maybe 5-6 feet in all that time.


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## Intheswamp (Jun 13, 2011)

smokinjay said:
			
		

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I understand that the softwoods/lower-btu wood would be better for the shoulder seasons but what I'm looking for is something that will give the max btu's for nighttime burning in my F3CB (notice I didn't say overnight burns..though I'm still gonna shoot for it  ) .  I figure the higher btu wood will give me longer burn times.  

I think for my area I need to start seeking out white oaks for the highest btu's.

Ed


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## Intheswamp (Jun 13, 2011)

Backwoods Savage said:
			
		

> Just beware of the hybrid trees. Yes, most of them grow fast but the roots are monsters and most have more limbs than a pin oak.....and that's saying a lot. Most are also wetter than cottowood when you cut them, stink to high Heaven and are about as light as paper when dry. That does not make for very good firewood.


Dennis, are you meaning hybrid ash trees?

I noticed when I split the pine I had a good bit of sap to squeeze out of some of the rounds even though I didn't get any sap on my saw when I bucked it.  I also noticed that the fiber crushed a lot easier than the oaks.  Oh, just to remind myself I tried another small round of that ELM....yelp, still a big fuzzy mess.   :shut:

Ed


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## smokinj (Jun 13, 2011)

Intheswamp said:
			
		

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In A.l. Silver maple would be more than enough btu's....I know I make it through the winter of 2005-2006 with nothing but.


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## ChrisNJ (Jun 13, 2011)

Intheswamp said:
			
		

> I just found this paper   "The Black Locust in Alabama" from "THE AGRICULTURAL EXPERIMENT STATION
> OF THE ALABAMA POLYTECHNIC INSTITUTE", apparently in Auburn, Alabama....circa 1935.
> 
> It shows a 1/2" diameter black locust tree at 8 years old from seed....
> ...



Damn they are some slow growing trees according to that research paper, 30+ years is a minimum I suspect, got some 5 year old silver maples in my field that are about 10 feet tall from seeds.


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## Intheswamp (Jun 13, 2011)

smokinjay said:
			
		

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Jay, help me out here and correct me if I'm wrong in the way I'm thinking.  Sometimes I go off on a rabbit trail...  

My stove is a small firebox F3CB.  By my measurements the firebox is 1.1 cubic feet.

My goal is to get the longest worthwhile burns that I can out of the stove.  Living here in the deep south we don't have anywhere near the cold they ya'll have up north...but it does get cold.  Also, my house is an older circa 1950 house with LARGE expanses of single-pane iron casement type windows...old school windows and leaky.  The walls are brick with mortar board on the interior...no insulation in the wall hollow.  There's plenty of blown-in insulation in the attic.

Here is where I may be looking at btu's in the wrong way and possibly stove operation in the wrong way.  As stated, my focus on higher btu wood is for maximizing burn times.  With the small firebox of the F3CB I am resigned to shorter burn times than the larger firebox stoves give, but that doesn't stop me from seeking the longest burns that I can get with the F3.

Silver maple has a rough btu rating of ~19m/btus whereas the red oaks are listed at around 24m/btu.  This is ~20% difference.  My thought is that the higher btu oak will give me longer burn times versus the silver maple, or pine, or poplar, etc.,.   But, with the F3CB non-cat, can I spread those btu's out over a longer period of time than I can with the lower btu wood?  Or will the higher btu wood just end up putting out more heat for roughly the same period of time as the lower btu wood?  

My thinking is that if I get a four hour burn time out of something like silver maple then I should get around a five hour burn out of red oak. (I'm hoping I get better burn times than that, though.  )

Do I need to re-think my thinking?   :gulp: 
Thanks!
Ed


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## jimosufan (Jun 13, 2011)

a bigger firebox is the answer. Not always the most affordable. But it dose make more types of wood worthy.


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## Intheswamp (Jun 14, 2011)

jimosufan said:
			
		

> a bigger firebox is the answer. Not always the most affordable. But it dose make more types of wood worthy.



Affordability wasn't the issue on deciding on the F3CB...clearances, and not wanting to overheat the living room here in south Alabama was the two primary issues.  How does a larger firebox "make more types of wood worthy"?  I'm confused on that last point.

Ed


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## Bigg_Redd (Jun 14, 2011)

smokinjay said:
			
		

> Both are slow growing! 30+ years from seed.



I Googled "how fast does black locust grow?" and it would seem the exact opposite is true. . . 

http://www.google.com/search?client...fast+does+black+locust+grow&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8


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## jeff_t (Jun 14, 2011)

Bigg_Redd said:
			
		

> I Googled "how fast does black locust grow?" and it would seem the exact opposite is true. . .
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> http://www.google.com/search?client...fast+does+black+locust+grow&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8



I thought it was fairly fast growing, too. I read up on it a little a couple years back.
I've got a couple of small ones near one of my paths thru the woods. They were around 3" diameter three years ago, and are close to 6 now.


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## Intheswamp (Jun 14, 2011)

I was under the impression that it was a relatively fast growing tree.   Down here the "improved" hybrid loblolly pines grow rapidly (not to say the wood is that great, but for paper it does ok...  :-/ ).   

This article from Purdue ( http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/proceedings1990/v1-278.html  ) states that in a field trial for biomass planting that BL attained 1" diameter and 4' height in a year's time.  This is average, with sizes ranging below and above these.  At one inch thick at a year it would seem the tree does grow rather fast...at least according to this study.  

Some questions....

Would smaller 4-5 inch rounds be as "hard" as splits from larger rounds or would they have too much sapwood in them to be comparable?  In other words, in 7-8 years would there be usable firewood?

What is the usual diameter of fence posts made from BL?

I don't have a probably getting wood (other than the actual "gettin'" of it!) but a higher btu wood for my stove's small firebox would be nice. 

Ed


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## Hiram Maxim (Jun 15, 2011)

My next door neighbor had a good sized locust tree cut down a little over a year ago (got the wood). It was located about 10 ft from the property line.

I now have Five, 3 foot black locust trees that have regenerated in my yard. the trunks are anywhere from 3/4" to 1 1/2" in diameter.

Seems like they are growing pretty darn quick?


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## CountryBoy19 (Jun 15, 2011)

jeff_t said:
			
		

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Same here, but I wasn't going to bring it up.

BL is a legume IIRC, which means it has bacteria that live in nodules on the roots that fix nitrogen from the air (similar to a soybean or alfalfa). This means that it has plenty of nitrogen to grow quickly.

Last fall I cut a lot of BL and several trees 12" diameter 40' tall only had about 15 growth rings. That means just under an inch of diametral growth per year. That's pretty quick IMHO.


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## Intheswamp (Jun 15, 2011)

Here is a pretty good article on the black locust that I found...

http://www.na.fs.fed.us/pubs/silvics_manual/volume_2/robinia/pseudoacacia.htm

If I was 33 years old I'd take a shot at planting some, but being 53 I think I'll stick with the stuff already growing here.  
I've got plenty of oak and pine to work with so I'll be ok but that extra bump of btus from the locust would be nice in the F3CB!  

Ed


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## Intheswamp (Jun 15, 2011)

I mentioned that years ago when I was a kid about a tree across the road from where I'm living that had thorns growing out the trunk in clumps.  I found a couple pictures stated to be "honey" locust....looks just like what was there.  I got to thinking and I *think* there might be another one nearby...I'll check on it in a day or so and see.  If it is one, this one isn't nearly as big as the old one was...but we'll see.

Looking at the btu chart on chimneysweeponline it looks like there isn't a tremendous difference between red oak and locust anyhow.  For some reason, too, I had it in my mind that black locust was a higher btu wood than honey, but the chart contradicts that.  With the slight btu difference between the oaks and honey locust, and considering the hassle of the honey's thorns I think I'll opt for the oak...black locust is still on the table but I'm not killing myself to find it.  

Here's the pictures I stumbled upon...  Ed
http://www.cfr.washington.edu/brockmantreetour/images/hlocusttrunk.jpeg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/224/481162180_a961244ea3.jpg


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## jeromehdmc (Jun 15, 2011)

We have plenty of black locust on our land, believe me it's a fast grower. Like someone mentioned earlier it seems to grow 1" per year in diameter. A foot thick tree is easily 40' tall. Another plus besides the good burning wood is that in the spring they smell great when they bloom. I really doubt you can find a better fast growing tree for firewood.


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## cptoneleg (Jun 16, 2011)

Intheswamp said:
			
		

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Go ahead and move to Alaska wher you can be truely happy and let her rip :zip:


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