# Englander 30-NC vs more expensive stoves



## Sodbuster (Sep 23, 2012)

I've been lurking on this site for a couple of years now, have learned a lot, but still have some questions. I'm not new to burning wood, I've had a Lopi Freedom and a Quadrafire 5100, both of which I liked. When we moved into our new house it came with a standard zero clearance Superior fireplace that is useless. After suffering through a winters worth of crushing propane bills, I decided to once again heat with wood. I went to the local stove shop, and the owner showed me a PE Summit stove. It looked nice, but by the time he added on all the bells and whistles the $1495 stove ballooned to $2500. From researching on this site, I can see the Englander 30-NC is a well respected stove, that is priced very nicely. My question is, what would I be getting for the extra $1000 to $1500, to get the PE? Other stoves have similiar premiums, Lopi, Quadrafire etc. Thanks


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## begreen (Sep 23, 2012)

I'm guessing you were looking at smaller PE stoves first. The base price for a Summit is around $2000. Englander and Drolet have less expensive 3 cu ft stoves. They are solidly built with some significant construction differences from the Summit, but if you are looking for bottom line savings, the Englander should get the job done.


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## BrowningBAR (Sep 23, 2012)

The PE will give you longer burns than the 30 based on the reports here. About 12 hours vs 10 hours, if I recall.

Some do not like the looks of the Englander, especially when it is compared to a soapstone or cast iron stove.


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## Sodbuster (Sep 23, 2012)

I may have been looking at the smaller PE stoves, his selection was a little thin. I do know that PE taps you for every little thing, almost light an al la cart menu. The Summit stove as 1425 but then there were up charges for: leg adapter, legs, black door, ash pan and blower. The blower alone was $315  I need to heat around 2700 square feet would the Englander 30 be up to the task?


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## begreen (Sep 23, 2012)

http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/pacsumm.htm

How well the 30NC will work will depend on the house layout, insulation and the wood supply. It's a capable heater, but it can only do so much. Same for the Summit. If the house is leaky and the wood supply is only semi-seasoned, then it's going to be close or disappointing. If the house is well insulated, wood is nice and dry and the floorplan is pretty open, then yes, it may be up to the challenge.


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## Sodbuster (Sep 24, 2012)

Thanks Begreen, I think our layout should work quite well. The fireplace is in the great room, which is centrally located in the house. The great room is open to the loft on the second floor, and a bedroom door is on either end of the loft. Home is 2x6 construction, and well insulated. I think I'm going to pull the trigger on the 30-NC. I just can't see paying $1000+ more for a stove with the same size firebox.  I agree with BrowningBAR, it's not the most elegant looking stove in the world, but I've seen worse! I'm sure I'll have more questions as I move along with tearing the old fireplace out, and installing the new. Thanks again.


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## begreen (Sep 24, 2012)

You'll have plenty of good company with that stove. There are lots of owners here that can help you out with questions.

Do you have a ceiling fan in the great room? You will need it. My preference is to run is at low speed in reverse in the winter to help break up heat stratifying near the roof peak. Without it the loft may be 10-15 degrees hotter than the 1st floor.


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## Sodbuster (Sep 24, 2012)

Yes, we have a ceiling fan in the great room, pretty much runs 24/7/365 except to clean it. Your right, I think the loft will be a toasty place.


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## Jags (Sep 24, 2012)

That extra grand is for the bling, the looks, the name, and sometimes the technology.  The 30 is a very capable stove with a rock solid performance, but it is utilitarian.  Big steel box that does what it is advertised to do, nothing more, nothing less.


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## BrotherBart (Sep 24, 2012)

Jags said:


> Big steel box that does what it is advertised to do, nothing more, nothing less.


 
A really good lookin big steel box.


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## Jags (Sep 24, 2012)

BrotherBart said:


> A really good lookin big steel box.


 
Once you go flat you never go back??


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## sebring (Sep 24, 2012)

Probably the best bang for your buck. Just dont read about blaze kings, and you'll love it.


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## BrowningBAR (Sep 24, 2012)

sebring said:


> Probably the best bang for your buck. Just dont read about blaze kings, and you'll love it.


 
A Blaze King will also cost you *over $3,000* more for the Blaze King King.


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## Seasoned Oak (Sep 24, 2012)

I look at the Englander 30 (i have 2) as the volkswagon of stoves,not too pretty ,but very capable and dependable.Its hard to beat the price for a quality stove if you buy it discounted,i paid $650 each fore both of mine,usual price is about $900   I do have other stoves i like better though,some more expensive and some cheaper(although smaller).


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## Dix (Sep 24, 2012)

Happy with the 13, probably shoulda gone with a 30, and been down to one stove. But originally I wasn't looking at heating the whole house, so , hence the PE.

The PE is a different beast than the Englander.

I think you'll be happy with it, very happy.


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## leeave96 (Sep 24, 2012)

Sodbuster said:


> Thanks Begreen, I think our layout should work quite well. The fireplace is in the great room, which is centrally located in the house. The great room is open to the loft on the second floor, and a bedroom door is on either end of the loft. Home is 2x6 construction, and well insulated. I think I'm going to pull the trigger on the 30-NC. I just can't see paying $1000+ more for a stove with the same size firebox. I agree with BrowningBAR, it's not the most elegant looking stove in the world, but I've seen worse! I'm sure I'll have more questions as I move along with tearing the old fireplace out, and installing the new. Thanks again.


 
I think you'll like the 30NC. I like the looks with the legs vs. pedistal, but that's my taste. Once you get the stove, you still have some heating options via blower and side shields that can yield some convection on top of a ton of radiant heat. Your open floor plan and insulation sounds like you will retain a lot of heat.  With regards to your original question, I feel there are other stoves which are more heavy built, etc., but I'm with you - I don't think at the end of the day, when you are trying to heat the house, it's hard to beat the Englander 30NC.  Once you get into more decorative stoves, cast iron or soapstone or cat stoves, then the $$$'s are more too.

Good luck,
Bill


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## BobUrban (Sep 25, 2012)

I ask the same questions last year(many have if you search it) looked at and touched many stoves but settled on the 30-NC. Looks good and is a beast of a heat producer. My biggest issue was the "open to the right" and handle latch. Regarding the RS opening and preffered left for my set up.... at 650.00 delivered to my home and 50.00 to the men in the truck to lug that beast into my living room - I can deal with moving wood around the door opening. Just cannot justify 1000-1500 for hinges on the right 

As far as the latch - there is a member here that works with/for Englander and says in all his years he knows of NO stove recall or return for latch issues. That is good enough for me.

If you want pretty and money is no object I fancy the Hearthstone stoves but for the equivelant heat you are in the 4-5000G range and not justifiable for the my home.

Bob Urban


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## Seasoned Oak (Sep 25, 2012)

Sodbuster
You will find the 30 Quite low to the floor,in fact if you want to view the afterburn action ,you will literally have to lay on the floor and look up. I elevated both my stoves 16" and even that is not quite high enough.(for me) This stove works well in an elevated hearth setting.


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## Sodbuster (Sep 26, 2012)

Sounds like the stove I'm looking for, too bad they are not on sale right now though, $899 is as cheap as I can find. Even so, with the stove at $899 and probably another 1200 or so in the chimney, it will pay for itself in less than one heating season based on what I paid for propane last year (and we had a crazy mild winter). Seasoned Oak, thanks for the heads up on the height of the stove, I like being able to see the fire, especially the secondaries. Here's a picture of what has to come out to make room for the stove. Any ideas on what might look nice would be appreciated, I've seen where other members have done similar projects, building an alcove to fit their stoves into, I'm thinking of borrowing that type of idea. The only difference is that my chimney stick into the room where the other fellas went outside.


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## BrowningBAR (Sep 26, 2012)

I'm not sure a 30 would work there unless you plan on doing a lot of modifications to the hearth and the fireplace opening.


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## Seasoned Oak (Sep 26, 2012)

Id be puttin a harman insert in there for sure and it would look as nice or better  than it does now. Check it out harman 300i.


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## Sodbuster (Sep 26, 2012)

Yes, I am planning on doing major modifications to the existing install, surround is coming off, stone coming off, fireplace being removed, re-frame the opening to get proper clearances, and use a double layer of cement board with 1" airspace between to get non-combustible surface. My wife is just not happy with the looks of the entire setup. She would like a raised hearth, with some sort of stone used to finish off the non-combustible surface. She also has an old barn beam that weighs more than I do, that she would like to use as a mantle. How to do it is my responsibility, she just said, "get it done"


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## Stegman (Sep 26, 2012)

Seasoned Oak said:


> I look at the Englander 30 (i have 2) as the volkswagon of stoves,not too pretty ,but very capable and dependable.Its hard to beat the price for a quality stove if you buy it discounted,i paid $650 each fore both of mine,usual price is about $900 I do have other stoves i like better though,some more expensive and some cheaper(although smaller).


 
You ever own a Volkswagen? 

Probably more like the Honda of stoves.


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## firecracker_77 (Sep 26, 2012)

Stegman said:


> You ever own a Volkswagen?
> 
> Probably more like the Honda of stoves.


 
We have a Volkswagen and an Accord.  The VW is 8 years old and has given no major mechanical issues.  110,000 miles.  The Accord is 6 months.  Hondas build quality is probably not to prior levels and Toyota obviously had problems recently. 

Back to the O.P., not sure how to make a stove fit there, but it's a nice looking room with alot of vertical space.  Definately need to push that heated air down with a fan.  An insert would give the most seamless install as suggested above.


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## Sodbuster (Sep 27, 2012)

So do you guys think I'm barking up the wrong tree trying to put a free standing stove in there? Basically I'm going to make an alcove for the stove to fit into. Don't really want an insert, number one because of the cost and number two, I'd have to lay on the floor to see the fire. Thanks


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## FyreBug (Sep 27, 2012)

Looking at the picture you will have a fair amount of costs associated either way - Stove or insert. First of all your options will depend on your budget. Since you are looking at budget stoves, I will assume you are trying to keep this under control. However, if you keep the big picture in mind think in terms of Return on Investment (ROI) and your heating goals. If you are trying to reduce your propane bill by 50% or more per year then you have a good case to spend a bit more money on the overall project.

Options 1) Insert: By far your least expensive option. Just drop a liner, find the biggest insert that will fit in there and it will provide a fair amount of heat.

Option 2) Stove: Never mind the stove... this will require a fair amount of rip & tear, lumber, masonry, sweat, blood and tears. But it will provide more heat that an insert and if the power goes out the stove will radiate more heat than an insert.

Option 3) High efficiency ZC fireplace. Some are 75% plus efficient and you can add gravity kit to bring warm air upstairs or to other rooms. Some will also allow forced air kits that you put on a thermostat to heat other areas of the house, turning your fireplace into a small furnace. This is the most expensive and also the most efficient use of your dollar (ROI). It also looks much nicer that an alcove stove IMHO. If you were thinking about tearing the whole works anyway this is something to think about. You can get a 2.5 cu. ft EPA ZC for about $3,000.

Hope this helps.


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## zzr7ky (Sep 27, 2012)

I went from a series of FP/Insert set-ups to a stove.  I'm lovin' it ; ).


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## Sodbuster (Sep 27, 2012)

I have to be honest I hadn't considered an insert, I assumed that I wouldn't be able to meet clearances since my chase is wood. I have a Lennox Ladera ZC fireplace in a cabin, and while it does pump out nice heat, it doesn't seem heavy duty enough for 24/7 burning during the heating season.  I would want to raise the heart, but it would be a lot less work than an alcove. What are some inserts that popular with folks on forums? Thanks


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## FyreBug (Sep 27, 2012)

What is the make & model of your current fireplace and what are the inside dimensions.


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## Sodbuster (Sep 27, 2012)

It's a Superior KR-43, its 26-1/2" in the back, 33" in the front, and 16" deep. Height is 18" from the firebrick in the bottom to the metal on top


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## Sodbuster (Sep 27, 2012)

What about a rear venting stove placed in front of the current fireplace and vented through the existing chimney. I could go with class A pipe into the firebox, then run a flex liner to the top. Any thoughts? Thanks


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