# Potential savings with advanced house construction.....



## webbie (Jun 1, 2008)

With the price of oil and energy going up, and the realization of most Americans that our energy and carbon footprint is too large, I wonder if and when building codes will be tightened up.

I was reading today about the Passive Houses being built in Europe as well as those built to the German standards. It is interesting calculating the potential savings in cost and resources...

Example: A house constructed in the USA to 2003 Model Energy Efficiency Codes uses between 5 to 15 BTU per sq foot per heating degree day.

So taking a season of 6000 degree days - and a 2,000 sq ft house - that would be an average of about 120,000,000 BTU or 1,000 gallons of oil in a very efficient burner (average - figured at 10 BTU sq ft).

A Passive House is engineered to use 1 BTU per Sq Ft per heating degree day.....

Meaning that the oil used would be 100 gallons instead of 1,000!

Although I am certain that such standards will not be required for a long time, it is interesting to see that we COULD get by on vastly less energy and still have a reasonably sized house, etc. - Even instituting some of the advanced standards could result in a savings of 1/2 or more over the current codes.

It may be in the near future that we complain about using 1000 quarts of fuel oil, instead of 1000 gallons.


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## fossil (Jun 1, 2008)

Webmaster said:
			
		

> With the price of oil and energy going up, and the realization of most Americans that our energy and carbon footprint is too large...



Dunno, Craig...no doubt "most Americans" certainly are aware of the price of oil & energy going up (big time), I'm not sure that "most Americans" yet fully understand just what a carbon footprint is, let alone the fact that they actually have one and that big is bad and that there are things they can do to make it smaller.  "Most Americans", I daresay, don't share your intelligence in these matters, your abiding concern, or your interest and insight.  They just want a house as affordable as it can be.   As a former student of architecture, an engineer, and a concerned passenger on planet Earth, I've paid some attention, as well, to the energy-related innovations in home (and other) construction.  Europe and Japan seem to be out on the leading edge.  Here in America, I think we're pretty far behind, especially in housing.  I think we're a nation of pretty short-sighted consumers...we seem to tend to focus on the up-front cost, as oposed to the lifecycle cost, and we don't seem to be particularly concerned (or enlightened) about the implications for the environment in our individual decisions about things like that.  I, too, would like our building codes to be brought up to date to require energy efficiency...but it will likely bring the cost of housing up, even though the lifecycle cost would be lower and the impact on the environment less harmful.  We just have to shove it down the consumers' throats, I guess.  It'll take time.  Rick


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## Adios Pantalones (Jun 2, 2008)

I was at a guy's house yesterday- he built it more or less himself, in NH- he heats the whole place on 1.5-2 cord a year.  That's it- no backup.  Solar as well (completely off the grid), but couldn't afford as much panel as he'd like.  Half the house was against a hill, and he had a root cellar built in that side.  The other half was about covered with a greenhouse.  Fairly small, but not tiny.

If he heated with oil, I don't know what he would have used, but 2 cord of wood in NH for the whole year is AMAZING to me.

This place was like paradise- long open meadows, swimming pond, middle of nowhere, big separate studio (he's a potter), big stone walls, awesome gardens and established lilacs etc... manoman.  Gonna take my wife there for a picnic in a couple weeks.


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## begreen (Jun 3, 2008)

Craig, was the passive house article online, magazine or book? I'd like to read up on them. 

My brother-in-laws house was built in 1980. It has 8" walls built with staggered 2 x 4s to avoid thermal xfer. Thermal wrap on the exterior, Pella windows, vapor barrier carefully sealed before the sheetrock went up. They heat it in NY state with about 2 cords per winter. They fill their oil tank about twice a decade. Can be done.


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## colebrookman (Jun 3, 2008)

Google Zero Energy Homes.  It's a real eyeopener.  
Ed


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## webbie (Jun 3, 2008)

GOOGLE Passivehaus or PassiveHouse - you will see some wiki entries as well as some articles and links. I was reading the wikipedia stuff and surfed from there.


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## WILDSOURDOUGH (Jun 3, 2008)

All True- the Europeans and Japanese are always ahead of our times when it comes to building sustainable homes.

And it's not just in home energy conservation, it's also in building homes with natural materials and incorporating nature into the home that promotes a healthy, restful home. Attaching Norwegian 'Wintergardens' and greenhouses to a home, and lots of natural building materials improves indoor air quality, regulates humidity and just makes you feel better- especially during long winters. Humans need warmth, sunlight and fresh air. If we can find a way to get these into our homes, everybody would be better off. 

Before I build my house- I read and re-read (and still look at every week)- _*'The Natural House Book' *_by David Pearson. The book is all about Creating a healthy, harmonious and ecologically-sound home environment. This is THE BEST BOOK I HAVE EVER READ ! This book explains everything ( about homes of the Japanese, Germans and European and even different parts of the US- what works and why)... and is the only book we keep on the living-room table. Can't say enough good about it. Really opened my eyes as to what I wanted in the only home I was ever going to build.

Someone (maybe Fossil) said: Americans are so shortsighted- only think about the up-front cost, not the long term ownership issues- How true, I know I have been there in the past myself !. Plus, our culture has been 'sold' to buy (want) synthetic. But maybe all that is changing...maybe.


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## jim_n_nh (Jun 7, 2008)

I heat 1748 sq ft upstairs with 2 to 2 1/2 cords of wood. My home is 38x46 with vaulted ceilings reaching 15 feet at the ridge pole. In the basement I have a Woodstock Fireview that is heating a 24x36 area plus the 1748 above ground.

The north and west walls are 13 tall of concrete that I have insulted with 2" rigid foam. The south is a walkout basement and the West is a 3 car under.

The above gound (only 5 feet on North and west side) and roof is composed of Structual insulated panels, 6" walls and 8" roof. While on the grid my house is built to be offgrid as far a energy use.

Jim


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## Jerry_NJ (Jun 7, 2008)

Well I wonder how many homes/apartments in Europe are form the 19th century?  I suppose those don't have the best thermal conservations qualities, e.g., a lot of stone walls.  

My house was built about 25 years ago with R38 in the ceiling and R19 in the walls, thermo glass all around and has a geothermal heat pump.  It is also not really large, no family room, we use the living room to "live" in.  

I recall much about energy efficient house construction, and I bet the US was leading the discussions, back in the 70s, and note soon after the US went on lead free gas, and it took Europe years to follow suit on that, I can well remember the damaged forests in Switzerland while they were still burning leaded fuels.  

So, if Europe is ahead of the US in house construction, about time!  They've been in business a lot longer.

One thing I don't look forward to is more "code" or any other government decision making.  I think the high cost of energy will drive US citizens to smaller cars, homes, and carbon foot prints, except of course for those who fly around in private jet airplanes and complain about others causing global warming...then too they may "buy" carbon credits (some are likely in the business of speculation in the carbon credit market too, thats where they get the $$ to buy carbon credits).


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## Kankujoe (Jun 8, 2008)

Jerry_NJ said:
			
		

> Well I wonder how many homes/apartments in Europe are form the 19th century?  I suppose those don't have the best thermal conservations qualities, e.g., a lot of stone walls.
> 
> My house was built about 25 years ago with R38 in the ceiling and R19 in the walls, thermo glass all around and has a geothermal heat pump.  It is also not really large, no family room, we use the living room to "live" in.
> 
> ...



+1 on your sentiments.... I'm all for being friendlier to our planet, saving money and living in more balance with nature... but I am really sick of all the "Global Whining."  Funny how the biggest whiners are also the biggest hypocrits.... 

What I'd like is the honest, balanced truth... not all the hype and fear mongering...


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## Telco (Jun 14, 2008)

Kankujoe said:
			
		

> +1 on your sentiments.... I'm all for being friendlier to our planet, saving money and living in more balance with nature... but I am really sick of all the "Global Whining."  Funny how the biggest whiners are also the biggest hypocrits....
> 
> What I'd like is the honest, balanced truth... not all the hype and fear mongering...



That won't happen till the money evaporates from global warming.  I do wish they'd hurry up and solve global warming though, June 13 in Arkansas and it's 66 degrees with the sun still up.  Last week, a foot of snow fell in Montana, reached into southern Iowa and northern Wyoming.  If we don't solve it soon I'm gonna freeze to death!  Yes, Europe's been pretty hot lately, but the ocean currents have been passing over a bunch of new underwater volcanoes off the coast of Greenland, right before sweeping along the Arctic Ice Shelf and into Europe.  I wonder how mankind caused those new volcanoes to open?  I mean, 100 years of tracking temperatures is surely a large enough sample to determine what the correct temperature is for a planet that's supposed to be 4.6 billion years old, right?


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## mbcijim (Jun 27, 2008)

I've been involved in the construction of 3 passive commercial buildings.  

The one I was most impressed with was 20,000 sft.  All walls were R-30; Roof was R-32.  
0 windows facing east or west (the building was a long & narrow rectangle). 
Almost continuous windows north & south, with additional continous clearstory window in the roof (think the vertical part of a sawtooth).  
Windows were very high quality.

I was in the building under construction.  They had two tiny propane unit heaters (what do they call them caterpillar???) running and doors wide open while it was 10 degrees Fahrenheit outside.  This 20k sft office building was 60+ degrees!


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## Wet1 (Jun 27, 2008)

salamanders...


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## Hansson (Jul 3, 2008)

Europe have high taxes on energy.Thats why we are starting insulation more.
That is the only way to change the buldings I think.high taxes :-(

A new wood house her must have at least 80 Inches insulation in the walls here in sweden.
And on the top its 118 Inches insulation.That stands in the building laws


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## Jerry_NJ (Jul 3, 2008)

Right, even 80 centimeters would be almost a meter, that's a thick wall.  I think in the US we focus more on the R-value, not the depth.  Some high tech insulation has high R value per inch.


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## Hansson (Jul 3, 2008)

ricardo loma said:
			
		

> Hansson said:
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Sorry:  8 inches for the walls. 10 inches for the topp.But in the topp 20 inches are ordinary 

We have minimum R value to


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## Hansson (Jul 3, 2008)

ricardo loma said:
			
		

> Hansson said:
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 norway


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## Jerry_NJ (Jul 4, 2008)

My house in NJ USA has 3.5" in the wall, that's R19 and twice that in the ceiling, R38.  That is not unusual in houses build after 1980.


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