# Chimney Liner Advice



## JDC1 (Aug 17, 2010)

Thank you all for the indirect advice as I have been lurking for the past year and have learned a ton.  I have recently purchased a Yukon Eagle Super Jack 125k BTU Add on furnace to off set my propane bill.  It is sitting in my garage as of now waiting for the install in the basement.  

My 13"x13" clay lined external chimney was cleaned and inspected and is good to go as of this morning.  After everything that I have learned, I want to sqeeze the most performance out of the furnace and was quoted about $2300 for a 35' 316 SS chimney liner installed with insulation kit and easy clean cap and long T snout.  This included $500 labor.

I have 2 questions;

1.  I am very capable of following directions and mechanically inclined, how hard is it to install a flexible liner as I can get a great price on materials through Yukon Jack.

2.  Will the chimney as it stands be a negative to the performance of my furnace (meaning, can I wait until next year to line the chimney)?

Thank You,

Jesse


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## Todd (Aug 17, 2010)

What size is your furnace exhaust? With a 13x13 chimney it should be very easy installing a 6 or 8" liner by yourself. I'd save the labor cost and try yourself, it aint brain surgery.


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## JDC1 (Aug 17, 2010)

The exhaust is 7" and Yukon approves + or - 1".


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## laynes69 (Aug 17, 2010)

You will want to line that chimney for sure. Its too big for the furnace and it will suffer performance with an oversized cool chimney. Lining the chimney won't be a problem. Sounds like a straight shot down. You would roll out your liner, insulate it and connect your base tee to the liner. Feed it down then connect your snout to the base of the liner. I installed a rigid liner, but i'm sure the flex is easier. Your existing liner is over 3x's the size of the furnace flue. As it stands with your current chimney. With a height of 35' your gasses will cool to the point of condensation on an exterior chimney with a flue that large. You will also lose draft when the fire is burning low because of the gasses expanding. Do you have dry wood ready? Where are you located in ohio?


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## Todd (Aug 17, 2010)

http://www.chimneylinerdepot.com/store/867/category/7-inch-Flex-King-Tee-Kit.html


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## JDC1 (Aug 17, 2010)

Thanks for the quick replies.

I am in Akron.  I have been planning for this since I have got my first $800 propane bill last november.  Earlier this spring, I had a load of logs delivered that I cut and split and have been accumulating "seasoned" firewood all summer.  I even found an older couple that had a cord of cherry and oak that they have had for a few years on CL.  Total, I have about 5 cords on hand to start off with.


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## laynes69 (Aug 17, 2010)

Sounds like your on your way. Having that chimney lined now will save you alot of trouble later. Follow the clearances of the furnace and the ductwork very important. Was that bill for a month? We heat with pro-pain and last year we burned under 100 gallons which was for cooking, the clothes dryer and the furnace. We have a large old home that would probably run around 400 a month to heat.


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## btuser (Aug 17, 2010)

I've done two liners in two years.  It aint rocket science, but it ain't that easy either.  I'm not saying its not worth trying it for $500, because it is but professionals earn their money.  My last liner was 5" insulated 25' long with two tees, one for a clean-out and one for the boiler.  I thought it was straight down but it wasn't.  I thought there would be enough room but there wasn't.  Oh well, an hour with the Hilti and there was too much room!  I ended up making a large opening near the snout to ease my troubles.  re-bricked it and mortared it all back.  Major improvement in draft speed over the original 8x8 clay lined flue

The only scary part for me was having to get on top of the chimney and stuff a 25' silver worm into a hole while it wriggled and squirmed about.   I'm guessing because yours is an exterior job you will have the same issue.  You can blow a hole in the bottom and snake it to the top or whatever but I ended up climbing up there and shoving it down by myself.  I'm used to heights and I have a fall arrest harness so more than likely I wouldn't die.  

Good luck!


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## JDC1 (Aug 17, 2010)

Yeah that was for 1 month.  We spent about 3k total to heat last season.  Granted, it was our first winter in this house, add a newborn, a two year old and a wife that likes it warm and you know the routine.  

The only thing that I am worried about is being able to secure the snout to the tee through the 2 ft wall.


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## laynes69 (Aug 17, 2010)

I just put in a snout that totaled 32" long. You can do it, just get a long screwdriver to work with. It sounds like you either have a large home, or a home thats not insulated, or both. If you haven't, get up in the attic and look for air leaks, then in the basement. Insulation will help greatly and is eligible for the tax credits. Sealing those air leaks and insulating will not only help with comfort, but you will burn less wood. When I installed our liner, I built a platform to work off of around the chimney. I don't know your setup, but for me it worked well with the chimney at waist height.


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## JDC1 (Aug 17, 2010)

I think my snout will need to be about 28" to make it through the rock foundation.  We have a house that was built in 1867 with an addition in 1995.  Square footage above the basement is roughly 3200 sq. ft.  The basement is insulated pretty well but there is only so much that could have been done.  I think that the zoning is a little funky as it is zoned old house new house with 2 furnaces and I cannot just heat the upstairs or downstairs.  It doesnt help that I have been a victim of this economy and we are home all day. 

I really liked the caddy but with the square footage I was worried that it wouldnt be able to keep up.  The max caddy is not eligible for tax credits and was out of our price range.


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## cmonSTART (Aug 17, 2010)

Well, 13x13 flues are the easiest to line for me.  The liners go down pretty easily without catching, though it can be like "wrestling a big silver worm".  A 35 footer is pretty long.  You might want some help with you.


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## laynes69 (Aug 17, 2010)

Thats a large home. Sounds tricky on the ducting. If there are 2 seperate furnaces, hopefully you can get heat through most of the home. The Max Caddy does qualify for the credit, but is pricey. This winter will be much better with the furnace.


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## JDC1 (Aug 18, 2010)

OK, I have decided on the FLex King 35' Liner with an insulation kit.  The furnace exhaust is 7".  I can drop or increase by 1" per Yukon for the chimney.  Would a 6" liner vent better than a 7" or 8".  I would like to stay 6 or 8" for stove pipe selection as well as future stoves or appliances.


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## vvvv (Aug 18, 2010)

JDC said:
			
		

> Thank you all for the indirect advice as I have been lurking for the past year and have learned a ton.  I have recently purchased a Yukon Eagle Super Jack 125k BTU Add on furnace to off set my propane bill.  It is sitting in my garage as of now waiting for the install in the basement.
> 
> My 13"x13" clay lined external chimney was cleaned and inspected and is good to go as of this morning.  After everything that I have learned, I want to sqeeze the most performance out of the furnace and was quoted about $2300 for a 35' 316 SS chimney liner installed with insulation kit and easy clean cap and long T snout.  This included $500 labor.
> 
> ...


I'd wait until next year


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## BrotherBart (Aug 18, 2010)

BLIMP said:
			
		

> JDC said:
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Based on what?


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## laynes69 (Aug 18, 2010)

If the company says 6" is okay thats what I would use. Going with a 7" probably wouldn't be an issue for the future other than a reducer. From just about everyone I have read about their yukon furnaces, when they idle they tend to run pretty low on the flue temps. Because of that I would for sure get a liner. Running low temps on a large exterior chimney will give nothing but problems and fill a chimney in no time.


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## Todd (Aug 18, 2010)

JDC said:
			
		

> OK, I have decided on the FLex King 35' Liner with an insulation kit.  The furnace exhaust is 7".  I can drop or increase by 1" per Yukon for the chimney.  Would a 6" liner vent better than a 7" or 8".  I would like to stay 6 or 8" for stove pipe selection as well as future stoves or appliances.



I would stick with 7". if you decide to change out appliances later down the road you will probably be able to vent just about anything with a 7" liner and tall 35' chimney.


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## vvvv (Aug 18, 2010)

BrotherBart said:
			
		

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bigger chimney has better natural draft & can install barometric damper if too much. if draft is inadequate, which i doubt, u live with smoke when u open the door at the wrong time. vvv


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## oldspark (Aug 18, 2010)

cmonSTART said:
			
		

> Well, 13x13 flues are the easiest to line for me.  The liners go down pretty easily without catching, though it can be like "wrestling a big silver worm".  A 35 footer is pretty long.  You might want some help with you.


 Do you use something like a fish tape and pull the liner in if the chimney size allows it.


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## laynes69 (Aug 18, 2010)

I used to think a bigger chimney is better, but its the opposite. Obviously you go too small then you won't get enough draft. Go too large and those gasses have to expand and with a 35' chimney they will cool quite a bit. That in return will slow the gasses and lower draft. I verified that this winter with a manometer during various weather and burns.


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## vvvv (Aug 18, 2010)

laynes69 said:
			
		

> I used to think a bigger chimney is better, but its the opposite. Obviously you go too small then you won't get enough draft. Go too large and those gasses have to expand and with a 35' chimney they will cool quite a bit. That in return will slow the gasses and lower draft. I verified that this winter with a manometer during various weather and burns.


how tall is your chimney?


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## BrotherBart (Aug 18, 2010)

BLIMP said:
			
		

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Same height it was in the original post.  :coolsmirk:


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## laynes69 (Aug 19, 2010)

Our chimney is 32' tall and our original liner was smaller than the OP's. From Yukon they require a .03" draft for the furnace. Only able to lowered by the use of a Barometric Damper. A Baro will lower the flue gasses that much more and cause more of an issue for draft. An insulated liner will be one of only ways to avoid temperatures that will likely condense on the walls of the chimney. I sucked gallons of water out of the base of our chimney last year. I never want to go through that again.


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## vvvv (Aug 19, 2010)

BrotherBart said:
			
		

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https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/57801/


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## btuser (Aug 19, 2010)

What's the difference in price between 6" and 7"?


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## JDC1 (Aug 20, 2010)

about $80.


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## BrotherBart (Aug 20, 2010)

A 35' 6" liner is gonna draft like a vacuum cleaner. I have a 30+ foot 5 1/2" inch liner in the exterior chimney for my basement stove and have to use a key damper to slow that sucker down. I joke about it sucking splits up the chimney. I can kick off burns in that stove on a 90 degree say with a ton of draft. Did exactly that to smoke check the liner when I installed it a few years ago in August.


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## btuser (Aug 20, 2010)

35' is a long liner.  I'm betting a 6" would be good enough, but for a difference of $80 its a toss-up.  My thought would be would I ever need an appliance that would require a larger than 6" flue size, because I wouldn't want to replace it.


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## ewdudley (Aug 20, 2010)

Selkirk has kindly provided the straight dope on this topic.  Go to 

http://www.selkirkcorp.com/Metalbest/Product.aspx?id=210

and pull up the "Chimney & Venting Sizing Handbook" from the Resources 'View Documents' javascript menu.

Go to Section 11 and set up a spreadsheet to work with the 'The Chimney Design Equation'.  They have a cascading chart set up for doing the same thing, but I'd say a spreadsheet is a lot nicer for adjusting the individual factors to see what effect they have and to see how much trouble you might be in if you've estimated a factor incorrectly.

The critical factors are having a good 'k' or flow resistance estimate according to the tee, elbows, and piping length involved; and knowing what what the manufacturer specifies as the amount of draft the appliance should see at its outlet, which can vary a lot.

Cheers   --ewd


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## Fred61 (Aug 20, 2010)

oldspark said:
			
		

> cmonSTART said:
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In my early retirement, I did some "handyman work" for several people. What I did when installing a liner which had a slight bend in the flue was: Find a tin can that just slipped over the end of the liner and attach it securely, attach a sash cord to the center of the can and drop it down the flue so that someone below can "steer" it down. Worked great!


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## JDC1 (Aug 20, 2010)

Great information.  Thanks for the replies


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## JDC1 (Aug 30, 2010)

Quick update ;a Flex King 7" chimney liner with deluxe cleanout cap and insulation kit will be on order later this week.  

As I am planning the inside smoke pipe I have a few questions.  To mantain the clearance for the horizontal run, I will be using Simpson double wall, stove pipe.  

It is my understanding that a snap adaptor is used to connect the snout to the double wall.  

I will be using a T on the rear exhaust of the furnace and then another T on top of that to mount the barometric damper in, then an adjustable length section into a 90* then the horizontal run to hit the snout through the wall and into the chimney liner.

Are there any flaws in my initial designs?

For the Ts and vertical section, can I use single wall into an adaptor and then only use double for the section where clearances will be tight?

Thanks for the input.


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## btuser (Aug 30, 2010)

On my boiler install I used two tees and two snouts.  The liner extends past the first tee to a clean-out tee on the bottom.  I figured this way if something like a bird (it would take something the size of a turkey!)  or whatever were to fall into the chimney it won't block the flue.


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## DaveBP (Aug 31, 2010)

> I figured this way if something like a bird (it would take something the size of a turkey!)  or whatever were to fall into the chimney it won’t block the flue.



Don't laugh. I know two people who have had their chimneys blocked by ducks. Yes, the proverbial dead ducks!


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## btuser (Aug 31, 2010)

The duck would have to rip the cap off first.  The wood stove I could see, because there's enough room for a bird to fall into it but the boiler's cap is 1" mesh.  I figured if I ever converted it to a wood burner and direct vented the boiler I'd be all set.  I'd luv a little stove in the man room.


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