# Help Selecting A Quality Stove



## RossB (Oct 4, 2013)

OK...I've been lurking, searching, Googling, Binging, visiting showrooms, talking to sales guys, and peering in neighbors' windows for 6 months.  Still...I've got nothing. My house is an 1800 sq. ft Colonial...25 years old...well insulated and generally pretty tight.  I have a room addition on the back of the house that's 20x16 with cathedral ceiling that peaks about 16'.  Its wide open to the rest of the first floor.

So here's the issue...I'd really like to add a hearth and a woodstove in that room. I'm not really looking to heat my house 24/7... maybe just the weekends or winter vacations when we're actually home...power failures...zombie apocalypse...the fall of civilization as we know it.  It's going in our living room so it has to be aesthetically pleasing to make the wife happy and the engineer in me would really like it to be a high quality piece...American if possible.  My local dealer, who is a heck of a nice guy and seems very helpful, sells Vermont Castings and has been steering me toward the Encore or maybe the Intrepid II.  I've read a pile of threads about VCs here on the hearth.com and I'm not sensing an overwhelming wave of support.  I'm also considering Jotul, Quadra-Fire, or maybe Pacific Energy...cat or non-cat...I am truly clueless.

We plan on spending a significant amount of time in this room so we don't want to be roasted out of the place.  We run a couple potbellies in the family cabin in Vermont and temps routinely hover in the high 90s or higher...it's like a sauna...and I think we burn up all of the available oxygen because I can't stay awake for more than 15 minutes at any time.  I'd rather not keep my house that hot, but I'm concerned that catylitic operation may require me to run hot.

I need an unbiased opinion or ten.  Anyone?


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## aansorge (Oct 4, 2013)

Generally speaking, it is easier to keep a cat stove running slow and low than a non-cat.  Sounds like a Keystone by Woodstock stoves would be a great choice.


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## Tenn Dave (Oct 4, 2013)

Hi Ross,

Welcome aboard.

I would suggest you take a look at the Woodstock Fireview or Progress Hybrid.  Both stoves are beautiful to look at, have the benefit of soapstone's gentle heat, are easily controllable so you won't be roasted out, are stingy on wood consumption, low on pollution, and the company is known for its excellent customer service.  And American made.  http://www.woodstove.com/


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## Oregon aloha (Oct 5, 2013)

Personally I would stick with a steel stove in your case. If you are not going to be heating more than part time you may want the faster gratification of heat with a stove without as much mass. If you put less wood in the stove it won't heat you out of your house as it is large enough, and with the high ceilings, I don't think you will have the cabin issue. Find the stove with the right look for your home and that makes the wife happy. Those the most important parts of the right stove purchase in my opinion.


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## begreen (Oct 5, 2013)

There are a lot of fine stoves that could do the job for you. Give us hint of which style you like. Take alook at a Jotul 500, a Pacific Energy Alderlea T5, an Enviro Kodiak and a Woodstock Progress Hybrid. Let us know which one you like the best.


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## rideau (Oct 5, 2013)

Not sure where your main home is but assuming NE. 

I strongly suggest a Woodstock Progress Hybrid.  Woodstock customer service is legendary.  Stoves are sold directly by the company from their store in New Lebanon, NH.  You are always welcome at the company, and can choose your soapstone/your stove.  If and when you wish to heat the entire home with a Progress Hybrid, you will easily be able to.  When you want a small fire, no problem.  You do not have to wait hours while the soapstone heats in order to get significant heat into the home.   The stove gets up to temp very quickly, and will heat the room it is in as quickly as you would wish, for it has a large window that throws a lot of heat.  However, it will not heat you out of the room.   The stoves are lovely, beautifully built, and the heat off them (other than through the window) feels like the sun shining on you.  Very comfortable heat.  You won't want to sit three feet from the glass, but six or seven feet away and you are fine.  If it isn't very cold out, just chilly, you can have one small fire to take the chill off the home, and the stove will gently radiate heat for hours.  You get very even heat with this stove.  Easy to get twelve hour/overnight burns.  Quick and easy to get a fire going and the cat engaged, and then dialed down for a long burn; then no need to attend the stove until your next reload.  It is easy to achieve a slower burn during cool weather, a faster burn during cold weather.  The stove is miserly in the wood it uses. 

At 1800 square feet and a large room with a cathedral ceiling, I think you'd be pushing it to try to heat the home with  a Fireview or a Keystone.  And there is a good chance that once you start heating with a Woodstock stove (or any other good EPA stove) you are going to be amazed how easy it is to keep a fire going, and how much more comfortable the home is when you heat with wood.  You may find you use it a lot more for 24/7 heat than you anticipate doing .  So I would be certain to get a stove that will be able to heat the entire home.  There isn't that much difference in cost in going to a larger stove.


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## RossB (Oct 5, 2013)

begreen said:


> There are a lot of fine stoves that could do the job for you. Give us hint of which style you like. Take alook at a Jotul 500, a Pacific Energy Alderlea T5, an Enviro Kodiak and a Woodstock Progress Hybrid. Let us know which one you like the best.


 

From a looks and size perspective, I like the VC Encore, the Quadra-Fire Isle Royale, and the Jotul F3.  I initially thought I'd like one of the enamel finish stoves but just about every used one I've seen for sale has damage to the coating such as chips or flaking.  It leads me to believe that te coating may not be susceptable to damage and/or is not easy to rework back to original condition.


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## jharkin (Oct 5, 2013)

As aVC owner I will reccomend against one.


Catalytic stoves are great for long low burns and shoulder season use. More picky on fuel. A little more efficient. Not very exciting fire view.

Non cats are much better for the fire show. Simpler. Slightly less maintenance.

Either can be a great option. Between iron, steel and soapstone just choose what you like looks wise.


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## RossB (Oct 5, 2013)

rideau said:


> Not sure where your main home is but assuming NE.
> 
> I strongly suggest a Woodstock Progress Hybrid.  Woodstock customer service is legendary.  Stoves are sold directly by the company from their store in New Lebanon, NH.  You are always welcome at the company, and can choose your soapstone/your stove.  If and when you wish to heat the entire home with a Progress Hybrid, you will easily be able to.  When you want a small fire, no problem.  You do not have to wait hours while the soapstone heats in order to get significant heat into the home.   The stove gets up to temp very quickly, and will heat the room it is in as quickly as you would wish, for it has a large window that throws a lot of heat.  However, it will not heat you out of the room.   The stoves are lovely, beautifully built, and the heat off them (other than through the window) feels like the sun shining on you.  Very comfortable heat.  You won't want to sit three feet from the glass, but six or seven feet away and you are fine.  If it isn't very cold out, just chilly, you can have one small fire to take the chill off the home, and the stove will gently radiate heat for hours.  You get very even heat with this stove.  Easy to get twelve hour/overnight burns.  Quick and easy to get a fire going and the cat engaged, and then dialed down for a long burn; then no need to attend the stove until your next reload.  It is easy to achieve a slower burn during cool weather, a faster burn during cold weather.  The stove is miserly in the wood it uses.
> 
> At 1800 square feet and a large room with a cathedral ceiling, I think you'd be pushing it to try to heat the home with  a Fireview or a Keystone.  And there is a good chance that once you start heating with a Woodstock stove (or any other good EPA stove) you are going to be amazed how easy it is to keep a fire going, and how much more comfortable the home is when you heat with wood.  You may find you use it a lot more for 24/7 heat than you anticipate doing .  So I would be certain to get a stove that will be able to heat the entire home.  There isn't that much difference in cost in going to a larger stove.


 
I live in western Massachusetts...just south of the Vermont border...rural area to be sure...a little over 2 hours from the Woodstock factory.


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## RossB (Oct 5, 2013)

jharkin said:


> As aVC owner I will reccomend against one.
> 
> 
> Catalytic stoves are great for long low burns and shoulder season use. More picky on fuel. A little more efficient. Not very exciting fire view.
> ...


 

That's the impression I've been getting from my researching.  I'm a technical guy by nature...I'm an engineer for a product that travels through space at 18,000mph...but the CAT stoves just look like an overly complicated solution for the simple act of burning wood...I assume the EPA may have something to do with this. I prefer taking the simplest path possible.  We've got 75 acres of forest and I enjoy cutting firewood.  I don't want to make the act of burning it more complex than the harvesting.  As I mentioned before, we have 2 old pot bellies that must be 60+ years old and they work fantastic.  We throw some wood in and the place gets warm (hot really).  No muss, no fuss, and they require maintenance about ever 100 years or so.  I'm shocked by how complex wood stoves have become and the routine maintenance requirements.  THis is the reason I'm having so much trouble pulling the trigger on a purchase.


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## jharkin (Oct 5, 2013)

Don't misunderstand, I really like catalytic stoves..  What I'm not reccomending is VC specifically, their downdraft implementation is temperamental.

I grew up with vc in the 80s. A great product back then. 3 ownership changes later its not the same company.


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## RossB (Oct 5, 2013)

Just stopped down at the local Quadra-Fire dealer and checked out the Isle Royale.  It seems like a nice stove.  Anybody have any feedback to offer on these untis or the company?


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## jeff_t (Oct 5, 2013)

The Isle Royale is well liked. I do believe it is a pretty intense radiant stove, meaning you'll need to give it some space. Or maybe you will like the sunburn 

You may be surprised at how easy 24/7 heating is with a good modern stove and dry wood.


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## rideau (Oct 5, 2013)

Cat stoves are incredibly easy to run, and Woodstock's tend to be quite easy to maintain for a lifetime. 

Just saying.


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## begreen (Oct 5, 2013)

Ross Bentz said:


> From a looks and size perspective, I like the VC Encore, the Quadra-Fire Isle Royale, and the Jotul F3.  I initially thought I'd like one of the enamel finish stoves but just about every used one I've seen for sale has damage to the coating such as chips or flaking.  It leads me to believe that te coating may not be susceptable to damage and/or is not easy to rework back to original condition.



The F3CB is too small. The Quad Isle Royale is twice the size of the Jotul F3. The Jotul F600 is its equivalent in size. If you get a Jotul I recommend getting it with the blue-black enamel. That is a tough, great looking finish. I wish I could recommend the VC Encore, but the track record has not been as good as with other stoves. Instead I'd recommend taking a look at the Lopi Cape Cod and the Hearthstone Manchester.

See my comments in the other,used IR thread. It is a well established and made stove.


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## Sprinter (Oct 5, 2013)

It sounds like ambiance and quick heating capability are priorities.  If so, I'd go with a non-cat, steel stove.  Non-cat because you'll want as much flame activity as possible, and steel because it will heat up (but also cool down) quicker than the stone-lined stoves. The steel stoves still hold a lot of heat, though.  My stove is still warm many hours after the fire dies out.

If the rising heated air will flow out to the rest of house as you suggest, then I'd agree that a medium size (around 2 cf) would be a good choice.  Stay away from any "downdraft" design stove and find the stove that you like the best.


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## stovelark (Oct 5, 2013)

Hi Ross, welcome.  I too second the Jotul Oslo or Isle Royale from Quadrafire, beautiful burning stoves.  If you want a robust and still pretty enamel, I also suggest blue black enamel from Jotul.  It holds up better than Jotul's other enamel colors.  An Enviro 1700 cast Boston might be a good choice too, along with P/E Alderlea T5/T6.  Jotul F3CB is a durable mid-size stove, but not near enough.  Lots of good choices already mentioned as well, enjoy whatever you get and remember good dry seasoned wood.


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## Sprinter (Oct 5, 2013)

stovelark said:


> ...and remember good dry seasoned wood.


I envy your wood supply!  Be aware that these modern stoves require that the fuel be dry.  You'll want to get a moisture meter (about $20) and check the moisture content on the face of a fresh split.  20% is ideal.  More than 25% will start to cause incomplete combustion, creosote buildup and compromise secondary combustion and efficiency.  There can be workarounds if it's not too bad, but you need to know what you've got.


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## RossB (Oct 5, 2013)

Sprinter said:


> I envy your wood supply!  Be aware that these modern stoves require that the fuel be dry.  You'll want to get a moisture meter (about $20) and check the moisture content on the face of a fresh split.  20% is ideal.  More than 25% will start to cause incomplete combustion, creosote buildup and compromise secondary combustion and efficiency.  There can be workarounds if it's not too bad, but you need to know what you've got.


 
Hmmm.  I've never imagined measuring the moisture content of fire wood.  I usually cut and split 1-2 years ahead of my needs and then light it on fire...12 cord last year.  The old farts up in the woods of Vermont are never going to believe how complex burning wood has become. ( ;


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## begreen (Oct 5, 2013)

If you are cutting 1-2 years ahead you will probably be fine. 2yrs seasoning is good for hickory and oak.


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## Sprinter (Oct 5, 2013)

Ross Bentz said:


> 12 cord last year.


Check out the "Wood Shed" and "Gear" forums here.  You'll fit in great


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## RossB (Oct 6, 2013)

Sprinter said:


> Check out the "Wood Shed" and "Gear" forums here.  You'll fit in great


 

I should clarify that the 12 cord was between my father-in-law and I...he _REALLY_ likes clearing land and cutting firewood...and then he ends up giving it away to friends for nearly nothing.  I'm in it for the smell of 2 stroke, the massive brush fires in early winter, and the pursuit of precision felling.


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## RossB (Oct 6, 2013)

So I find myself digging the Isle Royale stove.  It seemes to be well liked, I have a dealer less than a mile from my home, and it meets the wife's aesthetic requirements.  I'm a little concrned about it being overkill for the space though.  This picture makes it seem like you can chill out on the couch 4 feet away and everything will be great.  Does this photo seem fishy to anyone?


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## begreen (Oct 6, 2013)

That is a little close, unless the flames come from Photoshop.  The IR is a seriously radiant stove, but it should work well in your space based on the description. It's clearance to combustibles on the sides are 22" with single wall pipe. If worried about it overwhelming you remember, you don't have to fill it to the gills with every reload. In milder weather just have an evening fire and let it go out.


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## Sprinter (Oct 6, 2013)

That's a really nice looking stove.  I like the side trivets.   It is on the large side for your space but you should be able to control it okay.  Nice job.


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## stovelark (Oct 6, 2013)

That pix is prob cropped in, but it gives the impression that its a big room, with a massive stone wall going to the ceiling, a nice backdrop for this stove too.  The IR is a nice stove, don't think it'd be too much for you.


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## RossB (Oct 7, 2013)

OK...I think I'm settled on the Isle Royale...I'll probably pull the trigger on it this week.  Now I need to get down to installation.  This is what I'd like it to look like...more or less...but with walls about 4' high and a mantle of some sort on top.







Maybe a red brick version of this...






And this is what my space looks like.  The sliding glass door and the first 2 windows on that right hand side are coming out so that I'll have 5 feet of wall space on each wall to work with...







The fenced in area for the puppy is going away as well


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## RossB (Oct 7, 2013)

Here's more of the room to go along with the questions I'm probably going to start asking next...











The room is a work in progress for now.  We've been trying to figure out what to do with this space for some time.


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## RossB (Oct 7, 2013)

OK...this may be the time to break off and post another thread in a different area.  The floor is concrete so I plan to build the hearth and walls right on top of it.  I'm trying to figure out what I should use on the walls where the bricks will go.  Can I put up plywood and tar paper and then brick right up tight against it with wall ties every couple courses tied to the studs?  Or should I use concrete backer board like I'd use under tiles?  Is there an air gap for an entire brick wall against a wood wall?  This would be my first foray into the world of masonry so I'm reading everything I can and watching plenty of youtube videos about laying bricks.


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## begreen (Oct 7, 2013)

Are you allowing enough room for full clearances without relying on a wall shield? If so, perhaps use concrete backer board and a thin brick veneer as in the first photo. Consider making that mantel out of brick or a nice contrasting stone to avoid clearance issues there. 
http://www.centralvirginiastucco.com/cultured-stone-brick.html#brick

Can you post a sketch of the floorplan? I want to see where the heat is going from this stove. It's a serious heater.


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## RossB (Oct 7, 2013)

I'll post a sketch tomorrow, but I'd really prefer full bricks...they just provide a more substantial profile for the mantle to mount on.  I'm thinking something like a granite mantel shelf 1.5" - 2" thick with a rough edge.  I'm certainly hoping that a brick hearth will minimize the amount of space required between the stove and the wall.  The Isle Royale in the Quadra-Fire literature is like 6" from the wall.  I'm just trying to figure out what the recipe is for a noncombustible wall surface...a sheet of steel behind the bricks?  The chimney will be going straight up and through the ceiling.


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## Oldhippie (Oct 7, 2013)

Nice stove.. local dealer is a plus too. I'd still be checking the cost compared to some of the similar stoves.in BTU capability and styling. Alderlea T6 etc.


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## begreen (Oct 7, 2013)

Ross Bentz said:


> I'll post a sketch tomorrow, but I'd really prefer full bricks...they just provide a more substantial profile for the mantle to mount on.  I'm thinking something like a granite mantel shelf 1.5" - 2" thick with a rough edge.  I'm certainly hoping that a brick hearth will minimize the amount of space required between the stove and the wall.  The Isle Royale in the Quadra-Fire literature is like 6" from the wall.  I'm just trying to figure out what the recipe is for a noncombustible wall surface...a sheet of steel behind the bricks?  The chimney will be going straight up and through the ceiling.



No problem, full bricks can work. 6" is the minimum corner install clearance using a double-wall connector pipe. That would be the same if the wall was brick or sheetrock. It sounds like brick will give you greater peace of mind, so go for it.


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## RossB (Oct 8, 2013)

Oldhippie said:


> Nice stove.. local dealer is a plus too. I'd still be checking the cost compared to some of the similar stoves.in BTU capability and styling. Alderlea T6 etc.


 

oh no!  Another option?  My head is going to explode.

In my tiny little rural town, we have 3 woodstove dealers.

Dealer #1 is a real nice guy who I'd like to do business with.  He's the guy who sells Vermont Castings.  However, I've since gotten over my desire to own a VC and would prefer the simplicity of a non-cat stove.  I was looking at $2750 for a VC Encore in black (non-enamel)

Dealer #2 sells Quadra-Fire Isle Royale.  He seems OK, but I don't get the impression that I'll be getting any exceptional bargains out of him. $2500 for the IR if I pick it up myself.  I live 0.3 miles from his shop.

Dealer #3 never seems to be open for business.

I hadn't considered the Alderlea, but I know Dealer #1 has them in the showroom.  I guess I'll go back and poke at that today.  SO many choices...so many reviews to read...threads...specifications...ug!  I'm getting the feeling that I'll still be deliberating come Spring.  I hadn't considered the Alderlea because of the lack of top load access and the weird swinging top, but I just read some glowing reviews...


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## RossB (Oct 8, 2013)

begreen said:


> No problem, full bricks can work. 6" is the minimum corner install clearance using a double-wall connector pipe. That would be the same if the wall was brick or sheetrock. It sounds like brick will give you greater peace of mind, so go for it.


 

It's probably more of an aesthetic choice than a peace of mind issue.  I'm having trouble wrapping my head around the corner clearance (stove to wall) as it relates to single or double-wall pipe.  Is it based on the location of the pipe as it relates to the stove?  For instance, does a 6" corner clearance equate to a 16" pipe to wall clearance?  Is that why stove clearances in the specs are called out single-wall pipe vs. double wall pipe?  I see the exact same stove with completely different dimensions for these 2 scenarios.  It can't be that the stove is any different.  I assume that it's the pipe to wall distance that needs to be addressed if the stove itself is surrounded by brick. I thought that one of the dealers told me that single wall pipe needed to be 16" from the wall.  I thought double-wall could be even closer.  I'm still working under the assumption that I know absolutely nothing and all of my numbers will need to be reviewed by a professional before I go dropping a huge incendiary device in my home and lighting the fuse.  Forgive my potentially silly questions.


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## begreen (Oct 8, 2013)

Single wall pipe must be at least 18" from the wall. In the case of the IR corner install that requirement trumps the closest corner clearance. Double wall connector clearance is 6", but there is no way in a corner install that the vertical pipe can be 6" from the wall. In this case the 6" corner clearance represents the closest tested safe distance for the back corners of the stove. That said, remember, there is no harm in exceeding minimum clearance requirements.


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## RossB (Oct 8, 2013)

begreen said:


> Single wall pipe must be at least 18" from the wall. In the case of the IR corner install that requirement trumps the closest corner clearance. Double wall connector clearance is 6", but there is no way in a corner install that the vertical pipe can be 6" from the wall. In this case the 6" corner clearance represents the closest tested safe distance for the back corners of the stove. That said, remember, there is no harm in exceeding minimum clearance requirements.


 

That all makes perfect sense.  Thanks.  For the stove clearance, is that 6" to flammable wall material or non flammable wall material?  Not that I would want the stove crammed in any closer than 6 inches regardless of the material.


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## begreen (Oct 8, 2013)

It is to the combustible wall, typically the paper on the drywall. If you put up a brick veneer on cement board with no drywall, then it is to the studs behind the wall. For the big Alderlea T6 the corner clearance is 4". This stove is less radiant and more convective than the IR.


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## RossB (Oct 8, 2013)

I can actually feel myself getting smarter...or at least slightly better informed.  I'm headed back to the stove shops today to open and close doors and feign deep introspection.  I don't have high hopes for a conclusive outcome.  I just know that I'm going to get pulled back into the Vermont Castings vortex...they're just so pretty.


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## Sprinter (Oct 8, 2013)

Ross Bentz said:


> I just know that I'm going to get pulled back into the Vermont Castings vortex...they're just so pretty.


Take a look at this article first: The Encore is a "downdraft" design and widely thought of as something to avoid. 

https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/downdraft-stove-operation/


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## RossB (Oct 8, 2013)

Here's a quick drawing of how I think the room will be configured once the woodstove is installed.  The pipe is 18" from combustible surfaces.


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## Oldhippie (Oct 8, 2013)

It would be very interesting to see the "whole house diagram" in order to understand if you've got a chance to heat even more of the home than the dining room and kitchen, as well as this TV room. What's the size of this room?



Ross Bentz said:


> My house is an 1800 sq. ft Colonial...25 years old...well insulated and generally pretty tight. I have a room addition on the back of the house that's 20x16 with cathedral ceiling that peaks about 16'. Its wide open to the rest of the first floor.



Oh, you did say..what size it all was! Thanks!


Great drawing by the way.. usually a pencil diagram scanned in works just fine, but this one is superb.

The house is gorgeous too and you'll be happy with whatever you get. I have a VC Resolute Acclaim in the basement and it is a top loader. Nice, ...but let me tell you how difficult it was to change the "combustor" in that damn thing, and how it has really never worked as well since, because those metal plates never fit a 2nd time like they did originally.

PE Alderlea T6 in one of the enamel colors, or the Jotul F600, or a Woodstock Progress Hybrid.. then you be stylin' man.   But, you got to please yourself, so once you make up your mind, regardless what it is, we'll still be your buddies!


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## RossB (Oct 8, 2013)

I slipped out of work early today to go fondle stoves again. Went back to Dealer #1 to check out the Alderleas. He was adamant that the T6 was too large for my house and that I should be looking at the T5. Price $2460.  I looked at it for a while, played with the little trap door for ash, swung the top grates back and forth, and admired the large window. It's nice enough, but I don't really dig it.  He also indicated that he had never heard of Quadra-fire...carried by the only other wood stove dealer in town...0.4 miles away...in a town of 8000 people...where we all essentially know one another.  I was a bit put off by what I perceived as dishonesty.  To be fair, this was not the owner who I had spoke to a few times in the past and liked....this was an employee...so I took it with a grain of salt.

Back to Dealer#2 and the Quadra-fire Isle Royale. I like the looks of this stove...the fit and finish seemed spot on...the top load seems like a decent feature...the flip down andirons were kinda cool...and the proportions just look better to my eye if that's a factor. The guy I spoke to seemed like he may have been an owner (i liked him much better than the guy i spoke to during my last visit). He made no attempt to disparage dealer #1, he seemed to know him well, and indicated that he had run a VC stove for many years himself.  I appreciated his candor.

So now I'm thinking I've settled on the IR. $2500 and they have a pile of them in stock.

I'm not interested in Jotul, even though they are well liked, as the nearest dealer is more than an hour away.   I really like to support my local guys whenever possible.

So, who's going to rain on my parade and talk me out of the Quadra-fire Isle Royale?  Anyone?


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## Sprinter (Oct 8, 2013)

Ross Bentz said:


> He also indicated that he had never heard of Quadra-fire...


Well, that's just nuts.


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## Oldhippie (Oct 8, 2013)

Ross Bentz said:


> So now I'm thinking I've settled on the IR. $2500 and they have a pile of them in stock.



It's a lot like motorcycles when I say "there's no substitute for cubic inches". Just make sure it's big enough. You can always have a smaller fire in a larger stove, but yes, with 1800sq ft in a tight home, you are probably fine without the BIG stoves, like the T6 or the F600. You really ike the IR and it is a nice stove and is big enough for your home.

It's also a lot like motorcycles and guitars; at some point you look at them until one of them "talks to you". Then you know you found the one for you.

*Congrats!!*


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## begreen (Oct 8, 2013)

Oh brother, here we go again. The local dealer refused to sell me a T6, swore it would heat me out of house and home. That was a crock. The T6 stove will actually be more comfortable than the IR for that space. It's cast iron jacket add a lot of mass that evens out temperature swings.

Fortunately I spoke with Tom at the ChimneySweep and he gave me much better advice. The T6 is heating our 2000 sq ft house very evenly and nicely in a much milder climate. We have never been overheated by this stove. Unfortunately it sounds like you have a very ill informed dealer. PM me if you want more info.


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## Sprinter (Oct 8, 2013)

Oldhippie said:


> It's also a lot like motorcycles and guitars; at some point you look at them until one of them "talks to you". Then you know you found the one for you.


Wow,  that's just how I found my bike _and_ my guitar!


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## Sprinter (Oct 8, 2013)

begreen said:


> The local dealer refused to sell me a T6,


In Rochester?  Never mind.  They're probably too far.  I'm surprised a dealer would do that.  I was kind of curious why you went to Tom with local dealers around.


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## RossB (Oct 8, 2013)

begreen said:


> Unfortunately it sounds like you have a very ill informed dealer. PM me if you want more info.


 
This could certainly be the case.  This was the same guy who said he hadn't heard of Quadra-fire.  I'm sure that I could get the T6 if I insist.  However, I'm still leaning toward the IR for no legitimate reason beyond personal preference. There seems to be a lot of happy folks running them and not a lot of horror stories out there.


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## stovelark (Oct 8, 2013)

Hi Ross, had to chime in again.  The IR is a great choice, a top notch top loading non cat stove.  BG is right on though, the T6 would not be overkill, its in the same league as the IR and Jotul Firelight.  If you're happy with the IR, looks like you've found your stove.   Get plenty of wood ready, everyone in NE is thinking nasty winter, but it has been warm here the past week, the stove shop had been rocking in Aug and Sept, not so in Oct..... yet.   Good luck.


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## begreen (Oct 8, 2013)

The IR and F600 are strongly radiant stoves. I considered the IR long and hard for our house and nearly bought one. The reason I didn't was because of close by windows and a nearby overstuffed chair and a desire for less dramatic temperature swings throughout the burn cycle. That and our open floorplan indicated that a convective stove would be better. The T6 ended up being a good choice. It has the steady gentle heat like a soapstone stove that keeps releasing warmth long after the fire has died down. I also like that it runs nicely with a partial load of wood. If I want it to run at 500F instead of 600F it is possible by just running a partial load of fuel loaded E/W. But when you want serious heat load it N/S and give it a bit more air. It will jump up to 700F without hesitation. What I particularly like is how even the heat is in our house since switching to the T6. We never get blasted out of the living room in spite of it being of modest size. That said I really love the looks of the Isle Royale. It is a very classy stove and a strong heater. If you end up choosing it you will not be disappointed.


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## Oldhippie (Oct 8, 2013)

I'm looking forward to reading and seeing the progress of construction of the hearth and then installing and using the stove.

It will be interesting to see how the stove performs for you. One thing you mentioned early was that you weren't looking so much for a 24X7 whole house heater. This is probably good, because the stove location isn't ideal for that goal either, but you may find that stove heats so well, and you hang around here long enough.. you will hate the sight of "the evil oil man".. and/or the sound of the furnace.

With a nice tight home, and some strategically placed fans you may well do quite a bit of round the clock heating.

Here's another hint.. no such thing as enough wood.


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## RossB (Oct 9, 2013)

I was fairly confident that the location of this room and my proposed location for the stove would prevent this from being a whole home solution.  That's why I was initially thinking of a small to medium sized stove like the Intrepid II or Encore.  My chimney is dead center of the house with a woodstove flue in the basement and the fireplace in the living room.  A stove or an insert in either place would probably be a better solution for heating the enitre place 24/7.  What I was initially after was just a way to shift the focus of our winter activities from the living room where we have the fireplace running non-stop from Friday to Monday each week to the room pictured above.  This room is twice the size of the living room and has the potential to be a much nicer space.  Unfortunately, the wife and the dog are cold blooded and attracted to a lit flame like moths; they never move more than about 4 feet from the fire all day and night when the fireplace is lit.  I admit to getting caught up in the wood burning fervor here on the site and may have diverted from my initial plan to have a nice warm room on weekends and holidays.  However, assuming that I can run less than a full load in the IR and based on what I'm reading, I think I can get what I was after and have the added potential to provide significant heat for the first floor of the house as required.  Here's a floorplan of the first floor of the house.


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## begreen (Oct 9, 2013)

To aid heat circulation I would try location A for a fan on the floor running on low speed. Location B is an alternative. This can be a small box, floor or table fan as long as it is directional.


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## RossB (Oct 10, 2013)

LOL.  My sketch seems to be missing a couple key features.  Fan A is right in front of my front door and Fan B is in front of my door to the garage.  I am interested in the rationale behind your proposed placement of the fans though.  Is it meant to push the coldest air toward the heat source?  I don't know that I would have arrived at either of those locations based on my layman's logic.  I might have just tried pushing the hot air out of the room and into the dining room.  I assume that's flawed logic.


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## begreen (Oct 10, 2013)

Cold air is denser. Pushing colder air, down low toward the stove is often more effective than trying to push warm air. The displaced cold air will convectively be replaced with warm air from the stove room. Try it, it works.


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## RossB (Oct 10, 2013)

I think I'm going to buy the stove tomorrow.  My wife's grandmother made the grandest of gestures last night by offering to buy us the woodstove.  She's concerned about the impending fall of civilization and is happy to hear that we'll have a source for heat, cooking, and hot water after the entire infrastructure of the U.S. collapses.  She worries about her great-grandchildrens' welfare.   It's overly generous of her, and we tried to decline it, but she wouldn't take no for an answer.  In the end, we conceded and agreed to let her pay the entire cost of stove, chimney, and installation...$500  ( ;

Now she's going to be after to me to get it installed posthaste so she can sit in front of it.


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## RossB (Oct 10, 2013)

begreen said:


> Cold air is denser. Pushing colder air, down low toward the stove is often more effective than trying to push warm air. The displaced cold air will convectively be replaced with warm air from the stove room. Try it, it works.


 

Perfectly logical.


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## Sprinter (Oct 10, 2013)

Ross Bentz said:


> $500 ( ;


LOL.  You must have found a great deal


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## RossB (Oct 10, 2013)

Sprinter said:


> LOL.  You must have found a great deal


 

In 1950 dollars (her perpetual point of reference), that's a lot of money...she thinks we may be going overboard with this kind of extravagance...spending way too much at $500...but we assured her that the price would include the chimney and the hearth.

After all, a wood stove cost like $30 in 1954...for $50, you could get a kitchen wood/coal stove with 6 burners and 2 ovens.  If we told her the real number, her head would explode...then she'd still want to pay for it, but she'd be living on Saltine crackers and broth for the next 2 years with the thermostat turned down to 59. She is generous to a fault.

Just shot an RFQ out to dynamitebuys.com for all of my Class A chimney material.  I think I'll use the Class A all the way from the stove to the roof so that I can take advantage of the better clearances.  The walls behind my hearth will effectively be just for show and not much else.  I'd at least like to know what the rough cost of the chimney should be before I talk to the dealer selling methe stove.

So I'm thinking about the hearth and I have an idea of what I'd like to make...the stove platform probably about 6" above the floor...the brick walls going up 5-6'...some sort of grey stone for the platform and the mantel...1.5" - 2" thick with a rough edge...maybe round off or mitre that front corner...cinder blocks beneath the stove with a brick facade around the front edges...I have no idea what the grey stone material would be though.  I'll have to ask the building supply guy.  The floor is concrete so I don't think the load will be an issue.  I'll be treating the studs as the combustible surface and spacing the stove out accordingly.


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## begreen (Oct 10, 2013)

I would not run class A to the stove unless there was absolutely no alternative. It never looks right and costs a lot more. You will gain no clearances. The double-wall clearances listed in the manual are for double-wall connector pipe, not double-wall, class A chimney. They are different animals with different temp ratings. Revise your bid request and switch the pipe to connector when it enters the room at the support.


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## RossB (Oct 11, 2013)

begreen said:


> I would not run class A to the stove unless there was absolutely no alternative. It never looks right and costs a lot more. You will gain no clearances. The double-wall clearances listed in the manual are for double-wall connector pipe, not double-wall, class A chimney. They are different animals with different temp ratings. Revise your bid request and switch the pipe to connector when it enters the room at the support.


 

Ahhh...thank you sir!  I thought the two were synonymous.  I suppose this is part of the value of having a local dealer with subject matter expertise.  I suppose I should just defer to the dealer and let him tell me what I need for my application.  I just want to be knowledgeable enough not to pay $1500 for $600 worth of material.  I think Dealer #1 had me at about $1300 for the 12' chimney.


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## Oldhippie (Oct 11, 2013)

Ross Bentz said:


> Now she's going to be after to me to get it installed posthaste so she can sit in front of it.



Then you'll have a new best permanent resident from November till April.


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## RossB (Oct 11, 2013)

Oldhippie said:


> Then you'll have a new best permanent resident from November till April.


 

Whatever makes her happy.  Nobody expects to have grandparents around when you're well into your 40s...my wife still has 2 of them...we do what we can to keep them happy.


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## RossB (Oct 11, 2013)

Just bought the Isle Royale from Dealer #2 for $2400.  I found a coupon on the Quadra-fire web site for $100...that didn't suck. I should have it in a week or so.  Enough time to figure out what I'm going to do with it I hope.  I spoke to Sean at the chimney place today and I should have a quote for that this afternoon.  He knew that I didn't actually want Class A inside the house so clearly he knows more about this than me.  That's comforting.  Now it's time to start reading everything I can about laying some bricks.


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## dafattkidd (Oct 12, 2013)

Ross Bentz said:


> Just shot an RFQ out to dynamitebuys.com for all of my Class A chimney material.  I think I'll use the Class A all the way from the stove to the roof so that I can take advantage of the better clearances.  The walls behind my hearth will effectively be just for show and not much else.  I'd at least like to know what the rough cost of the chimney should be before I talk to the dealer selling methe stove.



Just FYI Random Factoid: Sean from dynamitebuys.com has recently launched http://www.woodstovepro.com/ I think he will be phasing out dynamitebuys.com  I like that company.  Kind of the new generation mom and pop store.  Very good service and the owner answers the phone every time I call.  Sorry for the side bar.

Ross, great choice!  My buddy has the Isle Royale with the white enamel.  It is a beautiful stove and a serious heater.  One of my favorite stoves.


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## begreen (Oct 12, 2013)

Keep us posted Ross. You're going to love that beauty. It's a serious heater and one of the best lookers on the market.


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## RossB (Oct 21, 2013)

OK...things are moving along now...I'm waiting for my stove to arrive, ordered all of the chimney materials from Sean at DynamiteBuys, and I'm prepping the room for the installation.  I'll post a few pics of my progress later, but I have a question.  As I lay out the raised hearth, I've been thinking about ducting in outside air through the hearth and up to the stove with an outside air kit.  The house is really tight and between the fireplace and the oil furnace, I'm afraid that all 3 things will be competing for the available air supply.  With my luck, I'll be inducing cold drafts in the furthest reaches of the house where the heat of the stove never reaches.  Any pros or cons regarding the use of an outside air kit?  Anything specific to the Isle Royale?  I'd like to make the accomodations for the air supply beneath the hearth before I start laying the bricks.  Thanks.


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## jeff_t (Oct 21, 2013)

I don't think there are any cons with an OAK. Sounds like you'll probably need it anyway.

Looking forward to the pics


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## RossB (Oct 21, 2013)

Just called and ordered the Outside Air Kit...somewhere around $100...should see the stove this week.

Went down the the building supply store today where they carry mountains of bricks in a hundred different flavors...picked up some for show and tell with the wife.  While I was there, I saw these big beautiful slabs of bluestone.  That stuff looks like it would make a nice surface to place the stove on and then maybe a couple smaller pieces for the mantel.  Does anyone have experience with this stuff?


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## begreen (Oct 21, 2013)

Search on bluestone. There are several hearths done with this material with pictures here. They look great.


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## bag of hammers (Oct 21, 2013)

Oldhippie said:


> It's also a lot like motorcycles and guitars; at some point you look at them until one of them "talks to you".



Been looking at them for 30 years - I think they've been talking to me for a while.  Unfortunately Bag of Hammers doesn't equal Bag of Cash.  Still dreaming though....


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## RossB (Oct 31, 2013)

I ordered the stove and set about making preparations for it's arrival.  The corner hearth that I was imagining would require me to remove a window and the sliding glass door.  I got busy while waiting for the stove to arrive.  I removed the window and ordered a new 36" door.

Here's the before picture...






I pulled the window and boxed in the hole.  I picked up a few bricks for some show and tell with the wife.






Prepping and painting the new door...






Foolishly, I opted to uncrate it at this time...not realizing that my hand truck would be virtually useless once the stove was off of the pallet.  It was just as well though as the stove was no longer bolted to the pallet.  The lag screws that secured the feet were no longer engaged in the feet.  I would have gotten a big surprise if I tried to tilt the crate with the hand truck and the stove flopped inside the box.

It sure looks nice...


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## RossB (Oct 31, 2013)

WooHoo!  Stove came in last Friday.  I cruised on down to the dealer with my trailer and had the man load me up.  He used the fork truck to load it and asked me if I had some buddies to help move it.  I assured him that I did, but 5 minutes later I was sitting in my driveway and realizing that all of my friends and family were working on a Friday at noon.  Being the impatient person that I am, I set about formulating a plan to move this 480lb pig into the house on my own...make an afternoon project of it and surprise the wife when she gets home.  After all, how heavy could it be?

First thing, I parked the trailer as close as possible to the deck...


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## RossB (Oct 31, 2013)

I wrestled it off of the pallet and onto the deck of the trailer.  Then I set about trying to use the handtruck.  No matter what side I approached it from with the hand truck, I just didn't like what I was seeing.  I couldn't tell if the ash box would support the weight of the stove, the heat shields on the back seemed susceptible to damage, and I didn't want to scratch the front or sides.  In the end, I just couldn't find a good way to use the cart.  Instead, I'd have to go the manual labor route and lift-drag-lift-drag-repeat.  I'd pick up one side, move it 3 or 4 inches in the direction I want to go, and then put it down...move to the other side and do it again...30' in 3 inch increments.  Some quick math led me to believe that if it took me one minute to move it 3" (assuming some huffing, puffing, and cursing between lifts), it would take me 2 hours to get into the house.  The sun was shining and the birds were singing so I set to work.


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## RossB (Oct 31, 2013)

First issue...the expanded metal gate on the trailer caught the feet of the stove and I couldn't pivot it to move the 3"...so I put a piece of plywood down...next issue, the feet dug right into the composite decking whenever I moved the stove...oops...more plywood.  An hour or so later, after much grunting, straining, and cursing, I found myself at the threshold to the living room.  Unfortunately, the step is about 6" high and the stove tilted precariously as I tried to swing one end up and into the room...time for a different strategy.  I grabbed a few short 2x8s and laid them on the deck by the stove.  I picked up one end and kicked a 2x8 under the feet...then I went to the other side and repeated...I kept adding 2x8s until the stove was level with the threshold.

At this point, I picked up one end and attempted to swing it across the threshold and into the room...DOH!...the feet on the opposite end came off the 2x8 due to the pivoting motion and the entire stove nearly rolled onto it's face!

I struggled a lot at this point...trying to hold up a significant portion of the weight of the stove which was leaning over...and trying to kick scrap wood under the feet...

Sweat running in my eyes...muscles straining...grip slipping...

This is what my daughter walked into as she arrived home from school...daddy in a life and death struggle with gravity on the back deck...losing ground steadily.

She dumped her gear and ran over to help; scrambling to stuff scraps of wood under the stove...wondering just what the hell I was up to...thinking she should probably take a picture for her mother's amusement.

Half an hour and some strained muscles later, the stove was finally in the house and I could collapse on the couch.

My own personal trail of tears*...







* not to make light of the historic Trail of Tears...the forced relocation of Native Americans from their lands by the U.S. government in the 1830s where thousands died from exposure, disease, and starvation.  In retrospect, a poor analogy all together.  I apologize.

Stove inside and my a$$ parked firmly on the couch, I'd regroup on Saturday morning to focus on removal of the sliding glass door.






This is right about the time that a pallet load of Dura-Vent goodies showed up at my door from Sean at Dynamitebuys.com.  My double-wall stove pipe, ceiling support box, chimney, flashing, cap, and storm collar as well as some other assorted goodies.  It's all coming together for me now.

8:00 AM Saturday morning and things were well under way...






It's a good friend who will wake up early on a cold (36 deg) Saturday morning and help you tear a giant hole in the side of your house.  Thanks Kyle!


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## bag of hammers (Oct 31, 2013)

Wow - Ross - do you write for a living?  Great suspense....   

fwiw - I got a buddy with a hand truck to help roll my unit from the driveway where it was delivered, around to the front and into the house (rolled it up a couple of planks over the stairs and up over the sliding door threshold).   It was well crated - nothing moved inside.  We parked it in the corner of the room.  After I finished the hearth, out there by myself, I wanted to move it up onto the hearth and get the pipe hooked up - but I had to do so on my own.  Some 2x's (flat they were almost level with the hearth) + a couple of fridge / appliance rollers that were in the pile of stuff, + scraps of thin hardboard - these did the trick.  Tilted the stove, slid the rollers under the base (one on each side), rolled it over the the edge of the hearth.  Tilted again, slid a 2x under the base on each side, with the 2x ends butting against the side of the hearth, then rollers, then rolled the stove right onto the hearth.  Used a the hardboard scraps on the hearth for protection.  Tilted and removed the rollers, then "wiggled" the stove into the exact location on the hardboard.  Tilted it again, just barely (enough to kick the hardboard out one side at a time) and set the base back down on the tiles.  Faster than getting someone to come out to help (I'm a few miles from nowhere).   

Necessity is the mother of invention.   

btw - your place is very nice - the stove is beautiful too.  You should be able to get a few $ for your old patio door if it's in halfway decent shape.  Good luck with the project...


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## RossB (Oct 31, 2013)

Thank you sir!  I actually put the door on Craigslist on Friday night for FREE and I had 37 people fighting over it in a matter of hours.  I had to delete the ad because my phone was ringing of the hook.  The guy who I gave it to actually lived right around the corner and had bought some tools and toys off of me in the past.  He also took the windows that I had removed.  Good deal for him as they were all Andersen and in nice condition...good deal for me as I don't have to look at them.  I probably could have sold them for a few bucks, but I'll take the good karma instead.  He took them within hours of removal.


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## RossB (Oct 31, 2013)

A few short hours later and I have new door as well as a place to build my corner hearth.


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## RossB (Oct 31, 2013)

By Saturday afternoon, the insulation was up and I scooted the stove into place to start lining up the chimney.  I'm still going to build a raised hearth with brick behind it, but I wanted to verify that my rafters were going to cooperate with my intentions.  I was in luck!  The chimney will pass cleanly between two rafters with the rear corners of the stove 8-9" from the walls.  Manufacturer's spec is 6" so I think I'm golden.  The wife and the dog can't wait for the heat to start.


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## Machria (Oct 31, 2013)

Ross Bentz said:


> I'm not really looking to heat my house 24/7... maybe just the weekends or winter vacations when we're actually home...power failures...



Famous last words!!     I started the same as you early last year, and also made a similar statement.  After installing the stove, learning/loving to burn and quickly becoming a wood hoarder, I'm now burning 24x7.


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## Holiday (Oct 31, 2013)

Haha, me too. I burn as much as I can now lol. Looks very nice.


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## bag of hammers (Oct 31, 2013)

Ross Bentz said:


> 'll take the good karma instead



+1.  

btw, Holiday and Machria are right - you are being assimilated.  Once you guys sit in front of the warm fire, watching the nasty weather blowing around outside, it will be game on.


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## RossB (Oct 31, 2013)

I'm already burning plenty of wood...unfortunately, most of the heat goes up the chimney.






The dog seems to like it though...


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## bag of hammers (Oct 31, 2013)

I can see your pup really hates the fire. 

I'm betting the new stove room becomes your favorite place


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## Woody Stover (Oct 31, 2013)

Ross Bentz said:


> Stove came in...all of my friends and family were working....I set about formulating a plan to move this 480lb pig into the house on my own...how heavy could it be? An hour or so later, after much grunting, straining, and cursing, I found myself at the threshold to the living room. Unfortunately..........
> Half an hour and some strained muscles later, the stove was finally in the house and I could collapse on the couch.


Let that be a lesson to you; Next time, lay in a supply of beer and wait for reinforcements! 
Seriously, looking good over there, Ross.   Now start stacking wood; Like they said, you'll be 24/7 in the blink of an eye.


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## northwinds (Oct 31, 2013)

Your shivering dog is almost on top of the fire.  That Isle Royale is overdue!.  Great posts.  Enjoyed the story.  Made me feel guilty for having my stove
delivered by two big brawny guys from the stove store.


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## RossB (Oct 31, 2013)

That silly dog is never warm enough...she'd climb right into the fireplace if the screen wasn't there to keep her out...I expect her to lay right on top of the stove once its in.


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## Oldhippie (Oct 31, 2013)

RossB said:


> I'm already burning plenty of wood...unfortunately, most of the heat goes up the chimney.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



And it does get COLD out there!!


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## Oldhippie (Oct 31, 2013)

Woody Stover said:


> Let that be a lesson to you; Next time, lay in a supply of beer and wait for reinforcements!
> Seriously, looking good over there, Ross.   Now start stacking wood; Like they said, you'll be 24/7 in the blink of an eye.



Really, when I moved my Woodstock Fireview in, I had two young muscle builders and a BIL construction worker.. I admit, I did buy the beer. 500 lbs is nothing to be doing alone! especially without the pallet.

Pretty stove, you are going to love having that puppy going. Even if it doesn't do the trick 24X7, you'll keep it going 24X7 as it will be easy to do, and keep that evil oil man at away!


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## RossB (Oct 31, 2013)

Time to start building my hearth.  I'm planning a raised hearth with brick walls behind it and blue stone beneath the stove.  First step...cinder blocks.  I went with solid blocks so that I'll have a smooth top for laying the blue stone pieces.  Crack this decision up to the fact that I know virtually nothing about masonry.  If I did, I would have known that these things weigh a freakin ton.  I picked up 24 blocks and my truck was definitely dragging ass...I moved them into the house and then I was dragging ass too.  I'll mortar them in place this weekend and then start on the brick facade.






I've got to cut a few to get the 45 degree front that I'm looking for.


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## RossB (Oct 31, 2013)

I've got a long way to go before the holidays and company get here.


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## Woody Stover (Oct 31, 2013)

RossB said:


> I went with solid blocks.....these things weigh a freakin ton.


Yikes! Is putting that much weight there OK??


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## bag of hammers (Oct 31, 2013)

Ross does the hearth specs for the Isle Royale require more than the layer of bluestone you have?  IMHO I'd be thinking about 2x6 or 2x8 frame, 3/4 ply on top, then skinning it with something like durock + bluestone?  Not sure why all the block is required?


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## Holiday (Oct 31, 2013)

I believe he said the floor is concrete. Probably doing that just to get the height he wants.


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## northwinds (Oct 31, 2013)

I think he'll enjoy the elevation.  This stove is fun to front-load, even though it has top-loading capability.  With both front doors open, there is easy access to the complete firebox.


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## RossB (Nov 1, 2013)

Yes, the floor is concrete...and it was built to support a 4000lb hot tub that resided in there for years...I do like the aesthetic of a raised hearth , but I'm definitely hoping that it will make front loading just a little easier by not bending down so far...cinder blocks are probably cheaper than framing it in 2x10s and then covering it in wonder board...I wouldn't want to lay bricks and blue stone against naked wood.  I think the stove would have been fine just sitting on the tiles, but I hate those tiles.  In fact, once the hearth is done, I'll be strapping the entire floor in 2x, sheathing it in 3/4" plywood, and then installing a hardwood floor.  That's why the door is 3" higher than the current floor.  Incidentally, the wife doesn't like the blue stone so now I have to figure out what to use as an alternative.


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## RossB (Nov 1, 2013)

Picked up the bricks today...hope to be slathering them in mortar by Sunday.


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## Dave A. (Nov 1, 2013)

RossB said:


> In fact, once the hearth is done, I'll be strapping the entire floor in 2x, sheathing it in 3/4" plywood, and then installing a hardwood floor. That's why the door is 3" higher than the current floor.



Was wondering about that, first thinking maybe a brick hearth was going under the door, then that maybe you had a flooding issue outside.  The wood floor will be nice, might want to insulate under it too if the slab isn't already or it gets cold.


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## RossB (Nov 1, 2013)

Dave A. said:


> Was wondering about that, first thinking maybe a brick hearth was going under the door, then that maybe you had a flooding issue outside.  The wood floor will be nice, might want to insulate under it too if the slab isn't already or it gets cold.


 

I'm thinking about hardboard insulation between the 2xs and a vapor barrier, but the floor is above grade and never cold or damp.  It may just be overkill.  I've been talking it over with a few carpenter buddies over breakfasts on Saturdays.


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## Dave A. (Nov 2, 2013)

Then prolly not worth doing the insulation. Eliminating the vapor barrier, I'd be more careful about with a hardwood floor there.


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## firefighterjake (Nov 2, 2013)

Random thoughts . . .

Enjoying the pics and narrative . . . it's fun following this project.

Granite slab? Slate? Soapstone slab? Just some possible ideas for the hearth if the wife isn't a fan of bluestone. One member went with a black granite slab once and I have to say it was stunning.

Hehheh . . . I too once thought I would just be burning nights and weekends in an effort to help reduce the oil bill . . . that was a number of years ago . . . just put some oil into my oil tank this Summer . . . I think the last time the oil company swung by was in 2007. Once you see the view of the fire, feel the heat and get into the swing of things and see how easy it can be to run the stove you may find yourself burning a lot more . . . heck, honestly, for me it is often more work having to start a fire from a cold start vs. just reloading on coals.


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## HotCoals (Nov 2, 2013)

Ours is similar to what you are doing.
The guy that did this one left the bricks out from the wall I guess a inch or so.
Towards the bottom and top of the" walls" he left gaps in the bricks so that air could travel behind.
I'm not sure why he went to that trouble but I guess he did it to keep the wall cooler.
I don't know if that's something you might want to look into or not..just thought I would throw that out there.
I could get a better pic if you're interested.

EDIT: I went back and looked at your pics again and I see you have no need to do what they did here. I think i just have drywall behind the brick.


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## RossB (Nov 2, 2013)

Busy day today...we hit the roof bright and early to install the chimney...I had already mocked the stove up and dropped a plumb bob to figure out exactly where to cut the hole...I took some pictures along the way, but please don't assume that I have any expertise in this area...I just thought it might be fun for some of you folks following along at home to see the whole process from shopping for the stove all the way to actual fire.  I'm sure that I'll make some blunders along the way.

Step 1:  Clear the insulation where the chimney is going to go.









Step 2:  Installing some blocking to make a 12"x12" frame for the Ceiling Support Box.  My rafters are 2x12s so I used a few 2x6s to block from ceiling to roof.


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## RossB (Nov 2, 2013)

Meanwhile, up on the roof, my buddy Kyle is stripping shingles that we just installed about a month ago...cursing me as he goes...


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## RossB (Nov 2, 2013)

Step 3:  COMMITMENT...cutting a hole in my brand new roof...this just feels so wrong...


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## RossB (Nov 2, 2013)

STEP 4:  PENETRATION...err...umm...well...you know...stick the big black thing in the hole...ummm...no...I mean...well....the ceiling support thingy...time to see if it actually fits...

I marked the support box at the 3" from the bottom so I'd know just how far to slide it up...3" at the rafter should be just over 2" once I put the ceiling back up...pre-drilled a couple holes in the side of the box for mounting (that's Kyle's job up top)...got the 2' level and put it right where I want it...then I yelled up for him to drive in a few screws.

THis seems about right...


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## RossB (Nov 2, 2013)

Up on the roof...

We discussed how to handle the portion of the box that extends above the roof.  I considered just cutting it off flushwith the roof sheathing, but instead, we trimmed it off about 1.5" above the roof, cut the corners with snips, and then folded over the sides to create a flange of sorts.  With screws already going through the walls of the box and into the blocking/rafters, this was complete overkill, but it felt right at the time.  I'm pretty sure that I can swing from the support box now and it will never move.


----------



## RossB (Nov 2, 2013)

So, with Norm Abram up on the roof working his magic and dry fitting the shingles, I set to unpacking my shiny new chimney pipes, cap, and braces.  This stuff is shinier than my Harley...I hate to even touch it...a 4 footer and a 3 footer ought to get me the chimney height I need.  Time to get up on the roof and start slinging the roofing tar...lots and lots of tar...


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## RossB (Nov 2, 2013)

We had a slight difference of opinion on the flashing...I was inclined to take a much simpler path that I had seen in the Duratech installation instructions and Kyle was intent on going a little more extreme...I really couldn't find much fault with his approach though...he certainly covered all of the bases...water isn't getting in there unless the entire house is submerged...lots of gooey roofing tar under there.

I put on the storm collar, but I wasn't totally satisfied with the locking tab design so I used a couple pop rivets to keep everything nice and tight.  Unfortunately, the high temp silver caulk had a real loose consistency and I made a bit of a mess with it.  I'm not entirely proud of the caulking job on the storm collar.  I suspect that it will be water-tight however.


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## RossB (Nov 2, 2013)

The chimney pipe screwed together easily with 1/4 turn or so to engagement...making sure that the seam is facing the house for maximum aesthetic pleasure from below...then the cap and finally, with the help of a 2' level, the braces. 

Now all I need is that crew of Munchkins from the Wizard of Oz to give it the same buff treatment that the Tin Man got...


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## RossB (Nov 2, 2013)

Down on the ground, things are looking pretty good...the chimney is about 14' from the main house and the wind blows due east from that mountain in the distance.  I'm definitely good with the whole 2' from the top/10' from the roof thing.


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## RossB (Nov 2, 2013)

Off to the building supply store for 600lbs of mortar mix and some cedar clap board.  I really need to get this place buttoned up before the snow comes.  I made a little headway before the rain came...











The whole back side of the house could use a coat of pain next summer.


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## BrotherBart (Nov 2, 2013)

Nice looking pipe sticking out of a great looking house.


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## RossB (Nov 2, 2013)

Very kind of you to say.


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## Holiday (Nov 2, 2013)

Looks great. Is there a reason you went with the length you did as opposed to shorter if it still met code?


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## RossB (Nov 2, 2013)

firefighterjake said:


> Random thoughts . . .
> 
> Enjoying the pics and narrative . . . it's fun following this project.
> 
> ...


 

I think the wife will warm up to the blue stone.  I think I'm going to go with it.  My guy at the building supply place thinks he can get me the entire slab in a single piece of 1.5" thick bluestone.  I'm sure it will weight a ton (400lbs actually), but I think it would look really good when its done.  I'm also going to try adding some Raven color to the mortar for something a little different.


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## RossB (Nov 2, 2013)

Holiday said:


> Looks great. Is there a reason you went with the length you did as opposed to shorter if it still met code?


 

Manufacturer's recommendation...12-14' total from the bottom of the stove to the top of the chimney.  I think I'll be right in the middle of the range.


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## Holiday (Nov 2, 2013)

Makes sense, mine ended up being in that 13' range but only 4' sticking out above the roof.


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## RossB (Nov 2, 2013)

You know, now that I think about it...there's no way that the chimney is 11' long.  I went out and looked at the boxes...turns out it was a 4' and a 3' section of chimney pipe.  The chimney is 7' tall from the bottom of the support box which equates to about 6' above the roof.  I think the double wall stove pipe will be about 6' in the house.  I think I'll be about 13' when it's all said and done.


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## Holiday (Nov 2, 2013)

Makes more sense to me now, 11' feet is a lot of chimney.


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## RossB (Nov 2, 2013)

HotCoals said:


> Ours is similar to what you are doing.
> The guy that did this one left the bricks out from the wall I guess a inch or so.
> Towards the bottom and top of the" walls" he left gaps in the bricks so that air could travel behind.
> I'm not sure why he went to that trouble but I guess he did it to keep the wall cooler.
> ...


 

I read up a little a couple weeks ago about the air gap you're talking about.  My understanding is that I could use that method to decrease the required distance to flammable materials, but since the stove I purchased is shielded and only requires 6" clearance to combustible material, I gave up on the pursuit.  While the idea of air flow behind the bricks makes sense to me, I never found a comprehensive definition of just how much you could safely reduce the clearance distances.  Maybe its a brick mason secret.


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## bag of hammers (Nov 3, 2013)

[quote="RossB, post: 1562057, member: 28787"
I put on the storm collar, but I wasn't totally satisfied with the locking tab design so I used a couple pop rivets to keep everything nice and tight.  Unfortunately, the high temp silver caulk had a real loose consistency and I made a bit of a mess with it.  I'm not entirely proud of the caulking job on the storm collar.  I suspect that it will be water-tight however.

[/quote]
Ross don't sweat the caulking thing - as long as its watertight you got 'er beat.  Nice job - you guys are on fire (no pun intended)...


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## firefighterjake (Nov 3, 2013)

Does Kyle know he's now famous here at Hearth.com?


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## RossB (Nov 3, 2013)

firefighterjake said:


> Does Kyle know he's now famous here at Hearth.com?


 

No, he didn't even see me taking the pictures.  The only thing he uses the internet for is to shop for race car parts.  I'm sure he'd wonder why I'd ever bother documenting this process in the first place.


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## cableman (Nov 3, 2013)

Great install so far! That chimney came out nice! I had a place by me make a bluestone slab out of 2", 50"x50" corner install. The wife didnt want it either but one piece with no mortar joints looks so nice! I have a pic in my thread, im still not done yet either!


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## RossB (Nov 3, 2013)

cableman said:


> Great install so far! That chimney came out nice! I had a place by me make a bluestone slab out of 2", 50"x50" corner install. The wife didnt want it either but one piece with no mortar joints looks so nice! I have a pic in my thread, im still not done yet either!


 

Thanks!  I just went and checked out your thread,  I like the looks of the single piece of blue stone alot.  I'm definitely thinking at I'll go the one-piece route.  How bad was it to wrestle that beast into the house and get it into place?


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## Todd 2 (Nov 3, 2013)

firefighterjake said:


> Enjoying the pics and narrative . . . it's fun following this project.


Well said Jake ! 



RossB said:


> . I think I'm going to go with it. My guy at the building supply place thinks he can get me the entire slab in a single piece of 1.5" thick bluestone. I'm sure it will weight a ton (400lbs actually), but I think it would look really good when its done


I think you will like a solid placement for the stove, that is where most of your ash / wood dust ends up and it sure makes for easy clean up.



RossB said:


> Now all I need is that crew of Munchkins from the Wizard of Oz to give it the same buff treatment that the Tin Man got...


Thats a beautiful sight to us stove junkies !


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## begreen (Nov 3, 2013)

It's coming along nicely. The only error I see so far is that the roof brace is set for a sideways load instead of a downslope load. The brace is supposed to be on the upslope of the roof, not the side. The brace is protecting against wind, but mostly it is bracing the pipe against snow load. This is especially important with that upper roof's potential to quickly dump a big load of snow onto the lower roof.


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## cableman (Nov 3, 2013)

RossB said:


> Thanks!  I just went and checked out your thread,  I like the looks of the single piece of blue stone alot.  I'm definitely thinking at I'll go the one-piece route.  How bad was it to wrestle that beast into the house and get it into place?



Not too bad, 3 guys and a nice dolly, rolled it onto carpet then layed it in place. More rolling then lifting! A pallet jack would have been best cause i took it home on a pallet!


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## RossB (Nov 3, 2013)

begreen said:


> It's coming along nicely. The only error I see so far is that the roof brace is set for a sideways load instead of a downslope load. The brace is supposed to be on the upslope of the roof, not the side. The brace is protecting against wind, but mostly it is bracing the pipe against snow load. This is especially important with that upper roof's potential to quickly dump a big load of snow onto the lower roof.


 

I was completely unaware!  I guess I had assumed that wind was my primary concern so I positioned the braces counter to the prevailing (and exceptionally strong) winds .  As snow sliding down the roof would only exert force against the lowest foot or so of the chimney, where the most strength is, I never imagined that the brace 5' up would be a factor.  I'll have to keep an eye on it this winter and reposition as necessary.  The pitch is pretty flat...most of the snow just sits up there all winter...I have to get up there an shovel if things get too significant.  Thanks for the heads up though.  Another novice reader may benefit and do it right the first time.


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## RossB (Nov 3, 2013)

I was hoping to start slinging some mortar this weekend, but the temps dropped overnight and I needed to get the exterior of the house buttoned up.  I stayed up late staining a stack of cedar clap boards last night and I got out there early to put them up.  Looks like the sliding glass door was never there.  All that's left is the kick plate which is drying as I type this.  I'm hoping to throw a few nails in it later today.  I wish I could start on the cinder blocks, but I'm just too lazy. 


No more slider... 








Like it never even happened...


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## RossB (Nov 3, 2013)

Despite my best efforts this weekend...still no woodstove...the dog and I will have to settle for naps by the fireplace...


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## northwinds (Nov 3, 2013)

RossB said:


> I was hoping to start slinging some mortar this weekend, but the temps dropped overnight and I needed to get the exterior of the house buttoned up.  I stayed up late staining a stack of cedar clap boards last night and I got out there early to put them up.  Looks like the sliding glass door was never there.  All that's left is the kick plate which is drying as I type this.  I'm hoping to throw a few nails in it later today.  I wish I could start on the cinder blocks, but I'm just too lazy.



I don't see any "lazy" in this thread.


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## cableman (Nov 3, 2013)

Really does look great! Kinda like what im doing but added the slider and got rid of the door! Lucky you have something else to light! Its getting cold here and i smell the neighborhood wood burners! Im jealous lol


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## Brokenwing (Nov 3, 2013)

Looks really nice, and I think the dog has  a great idea, with the best seat in the house!


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## lml999 (Nov 4, 2013)

RossB said:


> ...I wish I could start on the cinder blocks, but I'm just too lazy.



Um, you put the rest of us to shame. I'm tired from just reading this thread. 

Nice work!


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## RockyMtnHigh (Nov 4, 2013)

Good job on the ceiling support box, that thing could support a tank the way you installed it.


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## bag of hammers (Nov 4, 2013)

RossB said:


> I was completely unaware!  I guess I had assumed that wind was my primary concern so I positioned the braces counter to the prevailing (and exceptionally strong) winds .  As snow sliding down the roof would only exert force against the lowest foot or so of the chimney, where the most strength is, I never imagined that the brace 5' up would be a factor.  I'll have to keep an eye on it this winter and reposition as necessary.  The pitch is pretty flat...most of the snow just sits up there all winter...I have to get up there an shovel if things get too significant.  Thanks for the heads up though.  Another novice reader may benefit and do it right the first time.


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## bag of hammers (Nov 4, 2013)

My neighbor lost his chimney last winter -  braced well for wind but I suspect snow sliding off the roof took it out at the knees.  If I recall one chunk of pipe was hanging by the bracing, rest laying on the ground kinda mangled.  Much steeper than your roof, and metal roofing so he had things stacked against him.  Still made me go "wow".  Old man winter can sneak up fast.


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## RossB (Nov 5, 2013)

Yeah...I'll definitely keep an eye on it.  I don't think I've ever had snow slide off of the roof there, but if we had 2 feet of heavy snow sitting on the main roof and the sun worked its magic...I could see it comin down in a big wave.  Haven't I seen a shark fin looking thing that goes on the uphill side of the chimney for deflecting snow?  I might have imagined that.


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## RossB (Nov 5, 2013)

I had a busy afternoon today, but Photobucket is down so I can't host the pictures for show and tell.  I guess I'll have to wait.  It's not much fun without the visual aids.


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## Holiday (Nov 5, 2013)

There is a snow wedge available, called a cricket I believe. http://www.icc-rsf.com/main.php?t=chem_produits&i=22&l=en
I'm not sure what you would need if snow decided to come off that top roof. I have a metal roof so definitely more of a sliding issue. I put metal bars across on the roof above the chimney like a ladder to prevent sliding down above the chimney.
Maybe you could add a third brace to have the wind and snow issues covered.


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## cableman (Nov 5, 2013)

You up load them to photo bucket not here?


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## RossB (Nov 5, 2013)

Ahh...I didn't see that I could upload pictures to the forum directly.  I've been hosting them on Photobucket and posting links.



So I got home from work today and I just couldn't look at the dirty finger prints on my new chimney any longer so I got a ladder and polished it up a bit.

.


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## RossB (Nov 5, 2013)

Then I decided to take a shot at laying down some mortar for the cinder blocks.  I've never done this before so I really wasn't sure what to expect.  First thing I did was to clear out the area and stage the blocks.


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## RossB (Nov 5, 2013)

I wasn't sure how far a bag of mortar would go so I split a bag into 2 buckets so I could experiment with half a batch initially.  1/2" drill with mixer worked perfectly with 2 quarts of water.


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## cableman (Nov 5, 2013)

Looked like they were hosted on the site! Thats why i asked! Great work again, ill be doing the same thing to my chimney lol, which i hope to finish this weekend! I just cant seem to get a day off and now its dark too early!


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## RossB (Nov 5, 2013)

So it didn't go so well at first.  I had drawn the lines on the wall 3/8" above the blocks and used a level to extend them out to the end. I created a bed of mortar and placed a block in it, but I was having a heck of a time getting the block down to the line or level for that matter.  I was beating the snot out of it with a dead blow mallet, but it just wasn't cooperating.  I added a little bit of water to the mix and tried again; this time getting a little closer to the consistency of peanut butter.  Then I tried a technique I saw on Youtube.

If you're going to try laying some bricks, I really think you need to master this.  It took me a few minutes of trial and effort, but after about 20 times, I managed a perfectly formed cat turd.


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## RossB (Nov 5, 2013)

cableman said:


> Looked like they were hosted on the site! Thats why i asked! Great work again, ill be doing the same thing to my chimney lol, which i hope to finish this weekend! I just cant seem to get a day off and now its dark too early!


 

It's definitely getting dark way early.  Unfortunately, the holidays are coming at us like a freight train and I need this room completed before Christmas so I have to work on it as much as possible.  Sucks.


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## RossB (Nov 5, 2013)

So once I had the right consistency of mortar and I was able to thrown down these these little turds with some accuracy and consistent size, the blocks were so much more cooperative.  I dropped them into place, and with a few smacks of the hammer, they were level.


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## RossB (Nov 5, 2013)

This is as far as I got with 1 bag of mortar.   Everything seems level and secure.  The next batch of blocks will require some cutting and then I hope to try actual bricks.  Fingers crossed.


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## bag of hammers (Nov 5, 2013)

Holiday said:


> There is a snow wedge available, called a cricket I believe. http://www.icc-rsf.com/main.php?t=chem_produits&i=22&l=en
> I'm not sure what you would need if snow decided to come off that top roof. I have a metal roof so definitely more of a sliding issue. I put metal bars across on the roof above the chimney like a ladder to prevent sliding down above the chimney.
> Maybe you could add a third brace to have the wind and snow issues covered.


A cricket probably would have saved my neighbor's chimney.  Great idea with the metal bars - kind of a snow and ice brake.


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## cableman (Nov 6, 2013)

Looks great! Im glad i have a tile friend to help with mine! He floats mud like no tomorrow lol. How bigs that hearth 50, 60"s?


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## RossB (Nov 6, 2013)

cableman said:


> Looks great! Im glad i have a tile friend to help with mine! He floats mud like no tomorrow lol. How bigs that hearth 50, 60"s?


 

I think I'll be at 52" square when done


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## RossB (Nov 7, 2013)

Spent last night cutting bricks at 22.5 degree angle for my hearth base.  I had bought a 14" masonry blade (abrasive disc) for my Milwaukee metal chop saw, but it cuts sloooooooooooooooow.  Must have taken me 2 hours to cut 6 bricks.  It cuts a perfect angle and leaves a nice clean edge, but it takes forever and I blew the circuit breaker every time I got a little anxious and tried to apply some actual force to the cut.  I'm not willing to buy a 14" diamond blade.  I'm hoping to have all my bricks cut for the base by tonight so I can get back to mortar on Friday.


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## RossB (Nov 12, 2013)

OK...if you're going to cut bricks or blocks, and you're going to use a circular saw, please buy the diamond/steel blade.  You cannot believe the difference between using an abrasive cut-off type of blade vs. the steel/diamond blade.  The diamond blades cut through like a hot knife through butter...no struggle...no force...no wiggling around as you try to follow the line...just smooth, clean cuts.  I used one blade in my 7 1/4 saw to cut cinder blocks and I was so impressed that I bit the bullet and bought a 14" blade for my chop saw.  Bricks don't stand a chance now.  It's like cutting pine 2x4s.

So anyhow...back to the project...

You may recall that the room initially looked like this...lots of tongue and groove pine and 3 skylights




The skylights came out because they leaked occassionally and, facing south, they just let in too much light...the glare on the television was irritating and the sun beating on my bald head was never enjoyable.  I also need to relocate the baseboard heating to accommodate the increased floor height.


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## RossB (Nov 12, 2013)

I tore out half of the ceiling when I removed the skylights.  That way I can use 16' boards to fill it back in and I can salvage some boards to patch the walls where I removed the slider and the window.  Otherwise, it's impossible to match up the 20 year old boards that were originally polyurethaned and then aged in the sun.




We decided to pain the ceiling, but since the original half had a shiny coating of poly on it, I'd hae to sand the entire thing...:suck:


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## RossB (Nov 12, 2013)

This weekend the ceiling went back up and I started priming the original boards...


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## RossB (Nov 12, 2013)

Once the ceiling went up, I started cutting up bricks and dry fitting my hearth...focusing on symmetry as you look at it from the front.


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## RossB (Nov 12, 2013)

Time for some mortar.  I started off with the cinder blocks which went together pretty well with some mitred cuts.


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## cableman (Nov 12, 2013)

My old heath was brick and blue stone on top, the guy filled under the blue stone with sand, i took out like 12 spackle buckets of sand! You bricking the back also?


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## RossB (Nov 12, 2013)

Unfortunately, I don't have any pictures for the next phase.  Mostly because it was an abject failure and my hands were far too coated in mortar to even attempt to use a camera.  I was probably cursing a lot too.  The short story is that while riding high on my success with the cinder blocks, I decided to take a crack at the first 3 courses of brick.  It was a train wreck.  I couldn't get the right consistency to "butter" the ends of the brick and I was having a hell of a time filling all the spaces between the bricks.  My initial bed or mortar was too thin so by the time I got the 3rd course in place, it was half an inch shorter than the cinder blocks.  I made a mess of the brick faces and it wasn't exactly level either.  It was a mess.  I spent a few minutes trying to figure out if I couldsalvage my work and then I conceded failure and tore it all out...doing my best to salvage as many bricks as possible in the meantime.  It's my own fault.  I knew I should practice before attempting the real thing, but my childhood Lego building skills made me arrogant...I was flying high on wings made of Jenga blocks...and I crashed and burned.

So back to YouTube videos and I'll try again.  It's a good thing that bricks are relatively cheap.


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## RossB (Nov 12, 2013)

cableman said:


> My old heath was brick and blue stone on top, the guy filled under the blue stone with sand, i took out like 12 spackle buckets of sand! You bricking the back also?


 

Yes sir!  I've got 350 bricks stacked up in the room; just waiting for me to figure out how to lay them.  Incidentally, there's a good reason why shaking a brick mason's hand is a lot like slamming your hand in a car door.  Forget the fact that they're carrying brick and stone around all day...just work the trowel for a couple hours and your forearms start to feel like Popeye's.  This is physical work.


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## cableman (Nov 12, 2013)

Ya i suck a masonry! I was good a ripping it down lol 
Keep up the good work!


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## northwinds (Nov 12, 2013)

Do you think you will be needing that electric baseboard ever again?


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## RossB (Nov 12, 2013)

It's hot water, but I do expect that we'll still be using it at some point.  I'm not sure how often the stove will be running and the room gets pretty cold with no heat at all.  If nothing else, I'll need it during the early winter/late spring seasons to maintain the room.  I may get too lazy to burn wood some day.  Besides, I already have the baseboard so there's no cost to reinstalling it.  I'll spray paint it brown and sweat it back in place.


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## bag of hammers (Nov 12, 2013)

RossB said:


> then I conceded failure and tore it all out...



Man, if I only had a dollar for every time I did that.  I feel like the king of do-overs sometimes.  Don't let it bother you - you're making great progress IMHO....

That sanding must have been a b*tch - but your refinished ceiling is going to look nice - the primed area kinda reminds me of my stove room ceiling (a "blue stain" t&g pine with white pickle stain finish).   The notion of sanding a ceiling is exactly why I'm not putting a clear coat on my current project (plywood ceiling with battens) - I'm good with "rustic" and I plan to re-stain / re-paint it in the next few years.


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## RossB (Nov 12, 2013)

Sanding poly off of a ceiling is definitely high up there on my list of sucky things I've done...second only to cutting through an overhead sewer line that was full or emptying the bag house dust collector for a zinc arc spray process. ( :


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## RossB (Nov 15, 2013)

Ceiling is primed and painting is under way...not so sure about the color though...I'm hoping it will look better with crown mouldings, ceiling fans, and a couple faux beams.
	

		
			
		

		
	



	

		
			
		

		
	
 .

It's a kind of sand/tan color.  It's tough finding something to go with the pine boards on the wall.


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## RossB (Nov 15, 2013)

Today I'm working on the Outside Air Kit for the stove.


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## RossB (Nov 17, 2013)

I'm not a brick mason, but I play one on the Internet...


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## Machria (Nov 18, 2013)

That looks awesome!   Are you putting anything on top of the brick/blocks?


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## bsruther (Nov 18, 2013)

The bricks look great. What did you use to color the mortar?


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## RossB (Nov 23, 2013)

Machria said:


> That looks awesome!   Are you putting anything on top of the brick/blocks?


 

Just picked up the slab of bluestone today...fresh from a quarry in Pennsylvania...now I just need a few friends to help carry it into the house and drop it into place.


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## cableman (Nov 23, 2013)

Nice work! Get a nice dolly and move it in place  vertically into the room then gently lower it on top! I moved mine with 3 guys and one get out of the way lol. Is it 2"? Looks a little bigger then mine.


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## RossB (Nov 23, 2013)

A little brick work this weekend...

First some precutting and dry fitting.





And now on to the real thing


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## RossB (Nov 23, 2013)

bsruther said:


> The bricks look great. What did you use to color the mortar?


 

The building supply store sells all sorts of different colors of mortar tint.  It's like $8 /bag of tint and that's just about right for 1 bag of mortar.  I'm using a color called "Raven"


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## dafattkidd (Nov 24, 2013)

Ross, It's looking great.  I have to admit watching this thread is helping to encourage me to knock out all kinds of projects at my house.  Your hearth and stove install happen to fall in the same time when I'm wrapping up some projects.  It's nice to see other guys are busy on their weekends as well.  Keep up the good work!


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## bag of hammers (Nov 24, 2013)

Can't wait to see the bluestone in place.  Looking great....


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## Machria (Nov 24, 2013)

Looks like a piece of soapstone


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## jack_90125 (Nov 24, 2013)

really nice work you are doing there. you will love the stove.we put one in this year and we got hit with single digits and highs in the low 20's and it heats our 2500 house with no problem.makes burning with wood a joy.


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## RossB (Nov 24, 2013)

Worked for about 6 hours today...mortar is a lot harder than I imagined...getting just the right consistency and making sure there are no voids between bricks takes forever. Fortunately my mother came over to hand me bricks today. I really thought I'd finish today, but not even close


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## RossB (Nov 24, 2013)

Machria said:


> Looks like a piece of soapstone


 
 I think Bluestone is just a variety of sandstone from Pennsylvania


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## cableman (Nov 24, 2013)

Nice work man! Nothing like doing this stuff your self! The wives love it right lol I have redone things i paid for thats why i choose to do most my self now!


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## bag of hammers (Nov 24, 2013)

cableman said:


> have redone things i paid for thats why i choose to do most my self now!



Amen to that....


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## dafattkidd (Nov 25, 2013)

RossB said:


> Worked for about 6 hours today...mortar is a lot harder than I imagined...getting just the right consistency and making sure there are no voids between bricks takes forever. Fortunately my mother came over to hand me bricks today. I really thought I'd finish today, but not even close
> 
> View attachment 118600



I hear ya, man.  Projects at my house always take way longer than expected. Usually, though it's because I underestimate the scope of the job.  "Sure I'll just replace the sub-floor and carpet in this room." Then I end up gutting the whole room, re-framing the floor system, removing a window, removing the closet, replacing the door, super insulating all heating pipes running in the crawl space, installing laminate instead of carpet... and so it goes on and on.  But, this thread is like a beam of hope for me.  You're doing a great work.  Keep to it!


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## RossB (Nov 26, 2013)

Took a vacation day today to finish the brick work.  Tomorrow I'll order the bluestone mantel pieces to match the base and I'll start putting the pine tongue and groove back up on the wall..  I'm still looking for 2 strong friiends to help me carry that heavy piece of crap into the house and put it in place.  Then I'll sucker them into moving stove while they're here. ( ;




The top 2 courses were tougher than I expected because I was bringing them out 3/4" per course for the mantel.  Mortar is really tricky stuff.


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## RossB (Nov 26, 2013)

I can't wait to get the stove connected...it's so close.


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## cableman (Nov 26, 2013)

Looks great! U gonna thin set the bluestone down, i ended up but prolly didnt need to but it does help if not 100% flat. Where do ya get the outside air vent? Thats not just a dryer vent?


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## begreen (Nov 26, 2013)

I would set the stone on a bed of mortar or thinset. It will help support the stone evenly and avoid stress cracking.


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## bag of hammers (Nov 26, 2013)

begreen said:


> I would set the stone on a bed of mortar or thinset. It will help support the stone evenly and avoid stress cracking.


+1


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## RossB (Nov 27, 2013)

Yup!  I intend to lay plenty of mortar for the slab.  I may put a few spacers in place at key spots to ensure it's level and to maintain the 3/8" bed across the front where it meets the the 3rd course of brick.  I want to make sure the slab is supported evenly and there's no rocking.


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## RossB (Nov 29, 2013)

Installed the tongue and groove pine today and attempted to acid wash the bricks.  The black mortar ran all over the brick faces and made a bigger mess than I had when I started. Now the mortar is less black and there's less contrast between the bricks and the mortar.  I'm not loving the change though I suspect I may just be overanalysing the situation.  The bricks on the left were washed down - the one's on the right haven't been washed yet.  Is it noticeable?


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## begreen (Nov 29, 2013)

Seems to be, FWIW I like the washed brick look better.


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## RossB (Nov 29, 2013)

Thanks!  That's comforting.  I was afraid I just ruined the whole thing.


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## begreen (Nov 29, 2013)

It's just a change. You're doing fine. The softer black grout is going to be a nicer match to the bluestone top. And once you get the stove on it you won't be looking at the wall anymore.


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## bag of hammers (Nov 29, 2013)

Less noticeable to my tired eyes but I'd be good with it either way - once the stone and stove are down, my guess is you'll be very happy with the finished product.


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## RossB (Nov 30, 2013)

Over breakfast at the diner this morning...

9 degrees outside...

"Hey, how'd you guys like to help me move something this morning?  Should only take a couple minutes. "


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## cableman (Nov 30, 2013)

Sure is heavy huh!


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## RossB (Nov 30, 2013)

Had to be 400#...I'm still sore now. 

Just finished sanding all 4 walls floor to ceiling and heading for the hardware store to score some paint.  Work, work, work...Christmas is coming FAST!


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## RossB (Dec 5, 2013)

So...I was about to upload a few more pics of my progress and it occurred to me that this is a forum for wood burning...not home improvement projects.  I started off just looking for advice on which stove I should select, and having received some very helpful advice, I purchased one.  I suppose that should have been the end of the story.  I thought I might keep this thread alive long enough to at least light the stove and provide some feedback on my experience, but it sure is a long time coming.  It turns out that the simple decision to add a woodstove to your home is not nearly as simple as one might think.  Certainly not in my case anyway.  There seems to be a great deal of ancillary activity.

So I hope this thread has some value to someone considering a stove installation and I appreciate the latitude this forum has afforded me to share the story.  I really hope that at some point in the future, my posts will actually involve burning of wood.


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## RossB (Dec 5, 2013)

Busy night...last night.  I've been looking at the bluestone slab for a few days now and really wanting to move forward with the installation.  Lining up and extra body or two to put it into place has been proving problematic due to work schedules.  So, during a moment of weak judgement, I decided to attempt it myself.  With the slab still on edge, I lifted one corner and had my daughter slip a piece of round 1/2" bar stock under it.  This allowed me to roll the slab the remaining foot into the corner of the hearth. I wasn't exactly confident in the precision of my brick work or the cut of the slab so I really wated to dry fit it before even considering mortar.  Besides, I wasn't even sure that I'd be able to shift it into position once I laid it down.  Mortar wouldn't help that situation.  So, having positioned a cardboard box on the hearth to cushion the impact if I wasn't able to hold up the slab, I attempted to lower it into place.  The first 45 degrees went pretty well, but the transition from lifting above the waist to below the waist was a bit sketchy.  I was able to support the weight so I had my daughter pull out the cardboard box and I was able to lower the slab gently into place.





After some pushing and pulling, I was able to get it tight up against the brick and looking pretty good.  So good, in fact, that I thought I might just skip the mortar all together and leave it right here.


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## RossB (Dec 5, 2013)

Thinking this might just be good enough...I stepped up onto the slab to see if it was resting solidly.  Unfortunately, it noticeably rocked from front to back as I shifted my weight.  "Surely it won't rock once I put the stove in place" I thought to myself, dreading the idea of lifting the slab up again.  Then I laid on the floor to look at the fit between the bottom of the slab and the 3rd course of bricks on the front edges.  I didn't like it; a 1/4 to 3/8" gap with no mortar was not great to look at.  Of course, you'd have to lay with your face right on the floor to actually see it, but being an anal retentive nut job, it just wasn't going to work for me.  The slab would have to come back up.  The good news is that the rear edges of the slab and the brick walls mated up nice and tight.

So I summoned all of my strength, and like the middle-aged Olympian I imagine myself to be, I picked the slab up and leaned it against the wall.  The crowd went wild!

Out into the driveway in the black of early evening, I set about mixing up a batch of mortar.  I dragged in my mortar board and whipped up about 20 perfectly shaped turds of black mortar.  I then positioned them in a continuous line on top of the 3rd course of bricks to ensure a nice joint and then in 10 strategic positions across the cinder blocks.  Once I had used all 40lbs of mortar, I jumped up to drop the slab in place before the mortar could set.  Confident in my ability to actually support the weight of the slab, I was able to lower it with much less fanfare this time.  Once lowered, I scooted it into the corner and made sure that it was tight against the brick faces.  Then I put the 4ft level on it and set about smacking various spots with the big orange deadblow hammer to get it level.  Unfortunately, the surface area of the slab and the volume of the mortar under there seemed to render my hammer useless.  The slab wasn't moving.  Fearing that the mortar was drying and I might end up with a crooked slab, I went to the next bigger hammer at my disposal...me.  I used the level to find the high spot and then I jumped up and down on thethat spot until it came down...move the level...jump up and down...level...jump...repeat.

In the end, it was just about perfectly level in all directions and completely solid...no rocking of any kind.




I went outside and used a block of wood to push the 4" pipe for the Outside Air Kit back into the house (I had pushed it out so it wouldn't obstruct the installation of the slab) and then I installed the flexible feed tube which will connect to the beack of the stove.  I also installed the power outlet.  I'm not 100% sure that the outlet won't melt, but I figure I'll give it a try.  It's in a solidly grounded metal box so the risk is low and I can always put a metal blank cover on it later if it proves problematic.




Since ceiling fans seem to be an important component of a well rounded woodstove heating system, I figure these are germane to the story as well.  Painted the ceiling and added 2 new 52" fans this week as well.




Riding high from my success with the slab, I decided to start painting the walls last night as well.  Wife came home and joined in the fun.



I'm sure some folks are cringing at the idea of painting over the knotty pine in this room, but we've been looking at it for alot of years and we're ready for a change.  On top of that, I'll be installing a hardwood floor in the next couple of weeks and it just seems like too much wood...like wearing blue jeans, a denim shirt, and a denim jacket...sometimes, its just too much of a good thing.  We didn't want the room to feel like the inside of a shipping crate.


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## Machria (Dec 5, 2013)

Nice work man!!   Your NOT going to need that baseboard heating in there anymore!


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## logger (Dec 5, 2013)

RossB said:


> I'm sure some folks are cringing at the idea of painting over the knotty pine in this room,


 
That's me for sure. lol   You wrecked that freakin room.  Just kidding, but I def would have left all the wood.  To each his own though.


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## bag of hammers (Dec 5, 2013)

RossB said:


> I hope this thread has some value



I really appreciate the play-by-play on all these projects.  Just poking around another thread (a VC rebuild - start to finish) - I'll probably never own a VC, but still amazed at the time and effort folks here will devote to documenting their work for others to see.  Kudos.

It would have been a crying shame to see that slab crack under the weight of the stove, etc. especially after all your hard work to date.  Glad that's taken care of. 

I love knotty pine - I'm kinda with logger on that one.  I probably would have built us another Possum Lodge (Red Green) for our addition, but my better half is not quite so keen on that.  Fair enough.  We did a "blue stain" pine / whitewash on the ceiling, and drywall on the walls.  Turns out I like it a lot.  Your room looks great - no need for regrets. 

FWIW, we also have 2 ceiling fans (52") in the stove room and even on crawl speed they really move the air around, I think you'll appreciate having them there.

You're on the home stretch.  Very nice job...


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## RossB (Dec 5, 2013)

Yeah...I'm struggling myself with the painting of the pine.  I've always liked it and people always comment on it, but the honey finish just didn't go well with the new floor and it was a bit incongruous with the rest of the house.  We were definitely ready for a change in there.  Worst case scenario is that I miss it in a few years and I replace it all when I replace the windows...maybe an accent wall or something.  I cringed a little bit with every brush stroke of the white primer over the freshly sanded pine.   I'm trying to reserve judgement until it's all finished.  I saw some rooms painted this color on the internet and liked them a lot.


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## RossB (Dec 5, 2013)

WooHoo!  Two guys from work just offered to come over my house tomorrow morning to help me move the stove into place!  Looks like Christmas is coming early for me.


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## RossB (Dec 6, 2013)

So...knowing that 2 guys from work were coming over to help me move the stove...I looked around and realized that my place  was a total dump.  I've managed to pull out just about every tool I own over the last few months of projects and scattered them every where...not to mention a thick coating of dust on every surface.  This was simply not acceptable.  The wife and I spent all afternoon and evening cleaning the place and then I decided to stay up late and paint the room with the first coat of paint.

My boys showed up promptly at 8:00AM and I had already been prepping for a while.  The plumb bob was hung from the chimney pipe and I had plywood protecting the brick face and the slab so we wouldn't mark it up during the move.  The 3 of us were able to pick up the stove and set it perfectly in place in about 60 seconds.  They took off and I installed the chimney.  I think I'm actually ready to start a fire.  Unfortunately, it's just too warm and it's been raining outside most of the day.  I don't want to cook us out of the house.  I'm hoping the temps will drop overnight.  They've been threatening us with 2-4" of snow tongiht.


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## Machria (Dec 6, 2013)

That's exciting!  I would light it anyway!  Your going to need to leave all the windows open the first burn anyway, to burn off the paint and chemical smells.  Go for it!


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## jatoxico (Dec 6, 2013)

I just picked up this thread, great job! Throw a few pcs of newspaper in and snap a shot we'll never know the difference .


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## RossB (Dec 6, 2013)

One thing that is puzzling me is the paper that's pasted to the griddle on top of the stove.  It's apparenly soaked in cooking oil and I can't seem to peel it off.  It's just coming off in tiny pieces.  Anybody know the magic recipe for removing it?


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## bag of hammers (Dec 6, 2013)

Very nice - looks great.  My 2c - take it for a test drive.  As Machria says, open the windows and do the burn in fires.  Congrats on a nice install and all the awesome work...


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## cableman (Dec 7, 2013)

Looks great! Light her up! Wish i was this far with mine, i havnt touched mine but i did just order my bluestone mantels. 
Were you putting mantels on top of the brick?


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## RossB (Dec 7, 2013)

So I lit up the stove this morning with a little bit of kindling just to see if everything was tight...

The dog showed up within 2 minutes to see what I was up to...


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## RossB (Dec 7, 2013)

Apparently she approved as she promptly climbed up on the hearth and parked her butt without any encouragement from me.


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## RossB (Dec 7, 2013)

I figured I would let it burn for a while and then let it go out.  That way I could burn off some of the new paint and the coating of oil and paper on the griddle surface.  It certainly made some smoke and I had the windows open for a while.  I used a putty knife to scrape the oily paper off of the griddle and then I used a brass brush to scrub the surface clean.  I had heard that I should have a series of small fires and heating/cooling cycles to break in the stove, but the owner's manual said nothing at all about a breaking-in process.  It basically explained the controls and set you off to make fire.

Everything seemed to be working just fine so I loaded a couple more pieces of dry pine scrap just to see what would happen.

My daughter and the dog sure seemed happy.




After an hour or so of burning, the smoke was cleared out of the room and the stove seemed to be performing perfectly.  I dropped a couple small splits of hardwood in just to see what would happen.  Went outside to check the chimney and there was zero smoke coming out of it...just waves of heat distorting the air around the cap.  Maybe I'd let it go a little bit longer.

I kept it going this way for a couple more hours...dropping in a single split or two every hour just to keep it going.  I was expecting some sort of drama...maybe some expansion noise...some burning paint...something.  Nothing.  Just fire.  I played with the damper a bit to see if I could see a noticeable difference between open and closed...definitely.  You can see the fire change before your eyes as you slide the damper open or closed.  That's comforting.  I checked the outside air kit to see if there was a strong draw...not really.  I was in and out of the house...under the stove...behind it...checking everything I could think of.  The fire just kept burning steadily.

Every time I came back into the house, I found the dog in various poses by the hearth.


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## dmmoss51 (Dec 7, 2013)

The dogs to like the heat as much as we do!  Nice install.  I've got an OLD VC stove that I have enjoyed and it came with the house.  But from the same things you read here, i think my next stove will be something else and this stove is definitely a possibility.


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## RossB (Dec 7, 2013)

2:00 and my mother showed up to watch the children while we went furniture shopping.  At this point, I put half a dozen pieces of hardwood in and told my mother to just let it burn down while we were out.  The stove was not smoking in any way, the surrounding surfaces were faring just fine, and everything seemed to be picture perfect.  She could just ignore it.  My parents had burned wood my entire life so she wasn't particularly concerned about the stove burning down the house, but she was completely unfamiliar with these new fangled baffles and dampers and such.  I set it to medium and we left.

.The wife and I have been deadlocked for a couple weeks over new furniture for this room.  As usual, she wanted stylish and "country" while I just want to be comfortable.  I've lost this battle consistently for more than 15 years now and we have a house full of really nice...really uncomfortable...furniture to prove it.  Things like "mission" love seats with hard wood arms that you can't possibly rest your head on or dainty sofas that you can't possibly stretch out for a nap on.  She hates anything that ranks higher in comfort and function than aesthetic.  I just want to sit and put my feet up.  I always lose.  So instead of sitting in the livng room to watch TV at night, I just go to my bed where I can at least put my feet up.

We hit a few furniture stores, including the super high end joint that she loves where they sell $10,000 sofas and $2500 chairs.  Thank God we didn't buy anything.  At one store, I saw a sectional with 3 recliners, cup holders, and soft arms just made for napping.  It called out to me in a Siren's song..."Come...relax with me...have a snack...watch a little Top Gear...forget your troubles"...but she quickly dismissed it and dragged me away kicking and screaming.

We went out to dinner and discussed the issue a bit while waiting for our meals.  I told her that I was sick of uncomfortable furniture...pointed out all out all of the work I've done to this house over the years...reminded her of all the wood I would have to cut and haul just to keep her warm all winter.

And then, in a moment of weakness, she cracked...

"If that's the one you want, get it."

WooHoo!  An hour later and I'm now the proud owner of this monstrosity!


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## RossB (Dec 7, 2013)

Riding high on my furniture store triumph, we did a little Christmas shopping and didn't make it home until about 7:00PM.  We had been gone for 5 hours so I was pretty sure that the fire would be nothing but a few ashes at this point.  I walked in the front door and was smacked in the face with a wave of warm air...much warmer than ever before.  I came in and found my mother and daughter camped out on the floor by the hearth...along with my silly dog.  The fire was burning strong as my mother had been feeding it while we were gone.  The room with the stove is a perfect 80 degrees and the rest of the first floor is in the neighborhood of 77-78.  The ceiling fans are on high and the entire place is straight up cozy.  The house has never been this warm in the month of December - never.

Apparently, my mother, undaunted by the new equipment, managed to bring in some wood and get it into the stove.  I noticed the glass is smoked up a bit, but otherwise everything looks just fine.  She's clearly on board with the new arrangement.


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## RossB (Dec 7, 2013)

So here I sit in the dark...in shorts and a t-shirt...typing away on the laptop and enjoying the flames dancing behind the glass...sipping some Jaegermeister Spice stuff that I just found at the store.  I'd really like to thank everyone who contributed to this exact moment over the last month or so...helpful information...encouragement...varied opinions...vendor information...everything.  I couldn't be happier with the results.

I now wield fire like a Norse god...I no longer kneel before my oil pumping masters.  ( :

I'm noticing that the stove is quite miserly when it comes to wood.  When I run the fireplace, I usually burn 8-10 6"x20" pieces per hour all day and night and then I'll throw a 12" diameter full log on around bed time in hopes of finding enough embers to kick it off again in the morning.  That's easily 60 good-sized pieces of wood in a single night...way more if I burn it all day long.  I usually put 3 cord thorugh the fireplace just in ambience fires that hardly generate heat and probably suck more air up the chimney after the fire has died down and the flue is wide open.  Now my house is hot and I don't think I've burned more than a dozen real pieces of wood since noon.  I've got the damper turned all the way down right now and while there are all sorts of neat flames dancing around in the top of the fire box, the wood itself seems to be burning quite slowly.  I'm hopeful that this is going to be a much more efficent use of wood.


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## begreen (Dec 7, 2013)

Cleaner more efficient fuel burning is what EPA stoves are about. You are going to like this stove. It is a good performer. With the new furniture, consider picking up a nice hearth rug or bed for the dog to lie on in front of the hearth.


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## bag of hammers (Dec 8, 2013)

Awesome - congrats on a great job....


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## RossB (Dec 8, 2013)

Night 1 Results:

Around 10:00 PM - loaded 4 or 5 pieces into the stove...nothing very big...all split pieces...no logs...enough to mostly fill the stove.  The room is about 82 an the rest of the first floor is about 80.  I turned the damper all the way down and then open just a bit.  Brought in a second armful of wood for the morning.

4:00 AM - Got up to see if it had gone out.  Bedroom is 68 degrees despite the thermostat set at 62 and the closed door.  Downstairs is 77 degrees on both thermostats - also set at 62.  There's still a bed of fat coals covering the bottom of the stove..glowing bright and hot.  I leveled the coals and loaded another 4 pieces into the stove...opened the damper and waited a bit for the wood to catch fire...turned the damper back down and now I'm going back to bed.  So far so good!  My house has never been this warm in the month of December.


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## dmmoss51 (Dec 8, 2013)

haha I was putting wood in the stove about 4 this morning too!  that's when the geriatric dog needs to go out side anyway so he helps me keep the stove full.


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## RossB (Dec 12, 2013)

While I'm waiting for my mantel and my flooring to arrive, I've been struggling with the subfloor.  I have 1.5" strips of 3/4" plywood for furring strips, but securing them to the concrete has been awful.  My original plan was to predrill the holes in the concrete with my Hilti hammer drill, load the bottom of the strips with liquid nails, and then secure them with Tapcon screws. Unfortunately, I keep breaking the screws before they actually tighten down the strips.  I've tried 3/16" screws. 1/4" screws, Phillips head, hex heads, and multiple lengths.  I've tried new Hilti bits, deeper holes, a regular screw gun, and an impact gun for installing the screws.  This is a mess.  I honestly have $100 in Tapcon screws sitting there right now.

I'm really scratching my head over this one.  I've installed thousands of Tapcons over the past 20 years...enough to merit ownership of a Hilti that cost more than my first car, but this floor is kicking my butt.  Tomorrow I'll try picking up a Ramset and try again.  I always thought that the Tapcons were a more professional approach, but I'm willing to fire these bad boys in with gunpowder if that'll work.


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## begreen (Dec 12, 2013)

This is a better question for the DIY forum.


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## RossB (Dec 12, 2013)

Not really looking for help...just statusing my project.  I suppose I should stop this thread now that I'm burning wood in the stove.


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## cableman (Dec 12, 2013)

Sounds like a pain! We always used the gunpowder to install floors over concrete back when i was doing that. I never did many as i was just helping my BIL before my current career! PL glue is my good friend!


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## bag of hammers (Dec 12, 2013)

Dricore?


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## fossil (Dec 12, 2013)

I really think we're about done here, eh?


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