# Electric car prototype increases range to 218 miles



## MishMouse (Apr 5, 2012)

Link:
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/technol...type-increases-range-218-miles-203207200.html

A 5 passenger car that gets 218 miles per charge.
Sounds allot better then what is currently available.


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## webbie (Apr 5, 2012)

I think you can get to almost 300 with a Tesla model S with the optional better battery.

I think we are on the cusp of something big. There is a new article in Fast Company mag about the Tesla - pretty amazing stuff.

When these cars are perfected, they are vastly simpler than IC cars. No comparison. The engine is the size of a big watermelon. Most of the real innovation is in software! I think we will look back and chuckle at the IC engines complexity.


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## webbie (Apr 5, 2012)

This is pretty much the whole car. Compare that with a current car and drive train!


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## MishMouse (Apr 5, 2012)

What I would like to see is some type of option added to these cars to charge while you drive or park for that matter.

Adding solar cells may be one possibility.

Another possibility though I do not know if it is possible would be to add a wind-turbine like device to it.
Just a small one mounted on the front of the car within the engine compartment, that could generate additional electricity to charge the battery or extend the range. With such a small engine that does not require the cooling of a IC it could be possible. 

Even if these options wouldn't fully charge the engine or drive the motor they should create enough electricity to run some of the cars internal functions (radio/fan etc..)


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## webbie (Apr 5, 2012)

MishMouse said:


> What I would like to see is some type of option added to these cars to charge while you drive or park for that matter.
> 
> Adding solar cells may be one possibility.
> 
> Another possibility though I do not know if it is possible would be to add a wind-turbine like device to it.


 
And here I thought you were an engineer! My  understanding is that a wind machine would create more drag than the power it produces. The solar cells would work, though, and I'm sure they will be a part of cars as they come down.

The equiv. MPG for electric cars seems to be in the 90-120 MPG area...which is a really big deal if true. I think the IC engines will top out at about 50-60.

In the end...if I am correct, it will be much cheaper to build an electric car, so it will be win-win. It's somewhat like computer chips compared to old tubes! Tubes did the job, but not nearly as well (unless we are talking some guitar amps).


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## begreen (Apr 5, 2012)

There is some pretty cool work being done on batteries that may really help this equation. New anodes and cathodes are being tested that are showing much greater power density and faster charging. If we can get a decent 100 mi+ car for under $20K, it will sell very well in urban and semi-urban areas.


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## BrianK (Apr 5, 2012)

I don't think electric cars will come of age until super-capacitors are perfected.

This is a promising development:
*Graphene supercapacitors are 20 times as powerful, can be made with a DVD burner*



> These graphene supercapacitors could really change the technology landscape. While computing power roughly doubles every 18 months, battery technology is almost at a standstill. Supercapacitors, which suffer virtually zero degradation over 10,000 cycles or more, have been cited as a possible replacement for low-energy devices, such as smartphones. With their huge power density, supercapacitors could also revolutionize electric vehicles, where huge lithium-ion batteries really struggle to strike a balance between mileage, acceleration, and longevity. It’s also worth noting, however, that lithium-ion batteries themselves have had their capacity increased by 10 times thanks to the addition of graphene. Either way, then, graphene seems like it will play a major role in the future of electronics.


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## begreen (Apr 5, 2012)

Interesting to note that it's graphene anode and cathode development that is changing battery tech too.

" It’s also worth noting, however, that lithium-ion batteries themselves have had their capacity increased by 10 times thanks to the addition of graphene. "


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## Jags (Apr 5, 2012)

webbie said:


> My understanding is that a wind machine would create more drag than the power it produces.


 
That is correct.

Now the solar cell issue is a different one.  Make the skin of the car a solar panel and it will at least "help".  That would probably have the surface area capable of ~200-250 watts (currently), but sitting there in the sun while your at work it can add up.  And obviously as solar cells improve the numbers will improve.


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## begreen (Apr 5, 2012)

Jags said:


> That is correct.
> 
> Now the solar cell issue is a different one. Make the skin of the car a solar panel and it will at least "help". That would probably have the surface area capable of ~200-250 watts (currently), but sitting there in the sun while your at work it can add up. And obviously as solar cells improve the numbers will improve.


 
This is an option on the Prius. But the wattage is low and it's only used to help exhaust heat while the car is sitting in the sun.


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## Seasoned Oak (Apr 5, 2012)

Right now the focus should be on reducing weight as well as battery tech. It take a lot of juice to drag around 4000Lbs of Steel .Glass and Plastic. The energy to actually move the people inside is probably only 10%.


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## Dune (Apr 5, 2012)

Good news. Things are really starting to progress nicely.


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## fossil (Apr 5, 2012)

webbie said:


> I think you can get to almost 300 with a Tesla model S with the optional better battery...


 
Maybe.  But it'll cost you at least $77,000.00 to find out.  !!


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## macmaine (Apr 5, 2012)

I must say that looks like a cool car.

Rather than wait for the next best thing ; why not get a volt!
I mean waiting for the 400 mile EV is like waiting for the Woodstock Stove that can heat your 3000 sq ft drafty farmhouse on 1 cord of wood 
  I am sure Dennis could do this of course.

I am  supremely happy with the Volt. I leased in case there was a  great breakthrough as above.
Great to see an American Manufacturer produce superior product.
Traded in my Highlander for a Chevy Volt.
Highlander 6 gallons per 100 miles or 600 gallons per 10,000 miles = $2,400 a year (assume $4.00 a gallon)
Volt is 40 KW per 100 or 4000KW per 10,000 miles = $ 200 a year (assume 5 cents a KW)
Thus about $2,000 saved per year. This is about 1/2 my lease payment!!

That is 10,000 saved in 5 years!

Or you could compare it to the average FILL UP go 300 miles (average "FILL UP" for ICE at  Gas station) now costs me $6.00!
How much does your vehicle cost to "FILL UP"? Highlander was $60 last time

I drive only 10-20 miles a day (unless I am riding my bike) so I am all electric most of the time.

Did I mention how QUICK this car is ? I hate driving ICE cars now. Once you go EV you never go back
Did I mention I dont waste time at gas stations, 3 seconds to plug at night 3 seconds to unplug in am?

Tom


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## semipro (Apr 6, 2012)

webbie said:


> And here I thought you were an engineer! My understanding is that a wind machine would create more drag than the power it produces. The solar cells would work, though, and I'm sure they will be a part of cars as they come down..


 
I'm suspect MishMouse is talking about use of a wind generator while parked, not some thermodynamic law breaking, Wylie Coyote skateboard, sail, and electric fan concept.


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## oldspark (Apr 6, 2012)

semipro said:


> I'm suspect MishMouse is talking about use of a wind generator while parked, not some thermodynamic law breaking, Wylie Coyote skateboard, sail, and electric fan concept.


 We all hope so!


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## Seasoned Oak (Apr 8, 2012)

The solar collectors should be on top of the garage ,not the car. not enough Sq ft on top of the car. Also if the volt had a 10 AER like the prius it would be closer to $30000 before the rebate. 40 Mile AER adds $10000 to any electric car.


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## begreen (Apr 8, 2012)

Did you mean to any hybrid electric car? The Leaf's range is around 80 miles so it should be selling for much more than a Volt by that example.


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## Seasoned Oak (Apr 8, 2012)

begreen said:


> Did you mean to any hybrid electric car? The Leaf's range is around 80 miles so it should be selling for much more than a Volt by that example.


If you add an ICE and all the systems to regulate each to the cost,  it would be much more than the volt.


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## begreen (Apr 8, 2012)

Correct. Just trying to clarify, it sounds like you did not mean, *any* electric car.


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## Seasoned Oak (Apr 14, 2012)

Those "in wheel" motors have to deal with a lot of dirt and water and even be submerged at times if driving in a rainstorm.


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## begreen (Apr 15, 2012)

Here is another company with a hub motor that looks promising. They would be nice for truck retrofits.

http://www.proteanelectric.com/


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## Jags (Apr 16, 2012)

Seasoned Oak said:


> Those "in wheel" motors have to deal with a lot of dirt and water and even be submerged at times if driving in a rainstorm.


 
Yeah, but in reality its not much different than the oil pan of a car or the drive train of a front wheel drive car.  Get 'em sealed up good and roll with it.


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## Seasoned Oak (Apr 16, 2012)

Jags said:


> Yeah, but in reality its not much different than the oil pan of a car or the drive train of a front wheel drive car. Get 'em sealed up good and roll with it.


Cant see how you could completely seal up an electric motor thats part of a wheel and allow it to get ventilation and turn freely,just sayin. Big difference between an electric motor and an oil pan.


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## Jags (Apr 16, 2012)

Seasoned Oak said:


> Cant see how you could completely seal up an electric motor thats part of a wheel and allow it to get ventilation and turn freely,just sayin. Big difference between an electric motor and an oil pan.


 
There are many examples of completely sealed motors in use today.  Cooling does not always equate to free flowing air through a motor.  Have you ever taken a look at the drive systems of electric fork trucks?  Or trains, or ......


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## Seasoned Oak (Apr 16, 2012)

Jags said:


> There are many examples of completely sealed motors in use today. Cooling does not always equate to free flowing air through a motor. Have you ever taken a look at the drive systems of electric fork trucks? Or trains, or ......


Im sure it can be done,but at a cost. It must not be more cost effective now, as neither leaf or volt has employed it. Some prototypes with it now being tested. Time will tell.


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## Jags (Apr 16, 2012)

Seasoned Oak said:


> Im sure it can be done,but at a cost.


 
A sump pump can be purchased for $69 that spends its entire life submerged in water.  It really is not uncommon and has been accomplished in many arenas for years.  But, that being said, there are many ways to skin the "electric drive train" cat.


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## Seasoned Oak (Apr 16, 2012)

Jags said:


> A sump pump can be purchased for $69 that spends its entire life submerged in water. It really is not uncommon and has been accomplished in many arenas for years. But, that being said, there are many ways to skin the "electric drive train" cat.


I have 5 sump pumps at 2 locations, If they are not always under water(when the switch sticks)  they overheat and burn up. The real ? is i suppose if its better to have 1 centrally located electric motor and drive shafts or several in wheel motors. So far no one has opted for the in wheel type and made it commercially available. Although they are probably close to one.


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## Jags (Apr 16, 2012)

Seasoned Oak said:


> So far no one has opted for the in wheel type and made it commercially available. Although they are probably close to one.


 
I would suspect that you are right.  When it comes to efficiency, the direct drive approach wins.  Transmissions, drive shafts, etc. rob a little bit of power at every turn.


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## begreen (Apr 16, 2012)

Not much difference between this an sealing of an aircooled VW crankcase that gets exposed to all the elements. Actually I thing sealing of the electric motor might be easier. However, there are controller electronics on some of these motors that have heat sinks. I wonder about mud caking on them affecting their operation.


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