# SWITZER pics - finally!!



## EForest (Aug 25, 2008)

Hi all
these pics are a long time overdue. this link http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm210/forestfamily64/  should get you there.
click on the woodheat album
Along with the switzer you'll see pics of my trench and tanks.
I tried to upload a video I made these first week after install but the software doesn't work.
Anyone with advise on cheap video software?

thanks


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## pybyr (Aug 25, 2008)

looking forward to your pics, but I get an error message when I click on the linkyou give above


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## EForest (Aug 25, 2008)

I fixed it the link now works but you'll need to click on the woodheat album.
Ed


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## markpee (Aug 25, 2008)

EForest - thanks for the pics.  Can you tell me a little about the pipe you used (green) and what about the foam kit, how much did that run you and how much pipe did you cover with the boxes you showed in the pics?


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## EForest (Aug 25, 2008)

someone just emailed me about that.
here's my quote he grabbed from the posting.
If you do a search on underground pipe I'm sure you'll find the thread.

I just finished installing 220' of SDR35 (4" sewer pipe w/ neoprene gasketbuilt in) and spayed it with 2-3" of closed cell urethane foam (purchasedfrom EFI in Westborough MA 800-876-0660 or Wisconsin 800-962-7015) on all sides. I now have a water tight, well insulated, smooth interior conduit from house to barn and house to hot tub. I can snake anything I desire through the pipes with no worries. The SDR cost @ $1/ft but the foam was a little pricey at $1050 for two 600 bd/ft kits and a hose kit. But Icouldn't wait for a foam crew to show up two weeks later for the same money. I did the foam in two layers with a helper moving the tanks along the trench in less than 3 hours. It would have gone quicker if we didn't have to pump water out of the trench along the way. If you are interested in the SDR35 you will find it at any TEAM EJP or call the Spfld MA store 413-543-8888.


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## Willman (Aug 25, 2008)

Wow Ed, major engineering going on here! Were you heating with water before the Switzer ? Old fossil boiler gone or back up if 2k of storage gets low ? Where did you get the tanks ? Propane ? New without smell maybe ? Must be some x tank. How did you get all that into basement ?  Most DigitalV comes with editing software. Thanks for the update. Hot tub must be hot with that boiler.You can definitely tell the Arabs to take a hike in the sand when it comes to home heating !!
Will


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## EForest (Aug 25, 2008)

Will
I yanked the oil guzzler and sent it to the scrap yard.
The house was built with BB hot water but I plan to upgrade to staple up radiant soon.
The switzer has an oil gun for back up but only heats the top of the tank (no mix with storage tanks).
The 40 year old propane tanks came from Gary Switzer and were cleaned out before he recieved them. Gary did all the engineering and welding for me.
I did most of the install as the pics show. The equipment came thru a 6' double door in my walk out basement with the help of some come-a-longs and brute force (followed by pain meds). 
The hot tub should be online in the next week or two. I'll need a tempering valve to keep the tub from boiling me like a tastey MAINE Lobster!
I starting giving the Arabs the one finger salute the day my Switzer went online.


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## Willman (Aug 25, 2008)

Great set up. a lot of thought or should I say forward thinking on a project of this magnitude. Congrats on the install. Keep us posted on your experiences.
Will


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## markpee (Aug 25, 2008)

Thanks Ed, it is a great setup.  One more question though, what size pipe(s) will you be snaking through the sewer pipe?


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## EForest (Aug 25, 2008)

Markpee
Barn pipe will have three 1" pex lines. 2 for heat, 1 for DHW. Hot tub pipe two 1" for heat, two 1/2" for DHW and a stat wire (inside 1/2" pex) so I can monitor water temp of hot tub from the house. I was foward thinking enough on the barn trench to run 5 electrical conduit lines for all future needs but none to hot tub except for the 50A power supply.


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## brad068 (Aug 25, 2008)

I wonder how many people at the Pentagon were studying them pics. to make sure that them propane tanks aren't somesort of a dirty bomb.  ;-P 

 Hey ed, can you give us the price of Gary's bill? Ballpark?


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## EForest (Aug 26, 2008)

Garnification
Gary billed me @ $18,000.00 for the boiler, two 1000 gal tanks with fittings, one 500 gal exp tank, four extra DHW coils, fuel charge and driving time (11hrs round trip), all electrical components and required wiring, two days labor for two guys, insulation, oil gun, flue pipe, draft inducer, and a bunch of fittings. I did 95% of the plumbing myself with a total cost of @$2,000.00 in parts/pipes/etc.

I spoke with Gary this afternoon and he mentioned the cost of his boiler has gone up almost $2K since I bought mine. That still a fair price at the end of day. When Gary left my home I was fully functional with no additional work needed to run the beast..


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## Willman (Aug 26, 2008)

> Switzer 1050gal 3 pass wood burning system w/2000 gal. additional pressurized storage.



Ed, Any projections on amount of time to fully charge all the storage ? How about discharge at design temp ? Is the Switzer a pressurized  boiler ?
Will


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## EForest (Aug 26, 2008)

Will
This summer i've burned every 14 days for dhw only. 
I let all tanks drop to @ 100* before the WAF becomes an issue. 
I can raise all 3000 gal to 180-200* in 4 -5 hours depending on what i burn. 
The system is pressurized.
The design was based on heating two 3600 sq ft buildings with one 4-5 hr burn per day on the coldest days.
I expect to go this winter with no heat to the barn due to the fact that I won't finish construction before snow.
I'll post the results but I expect to go a couple of days between fires without the barn on line.
The hot tub should be online in a week or so. That should change summer burns....


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## ISeeDeadBTUs (Aug 26, 2008)

Very Cool! (or Hott, I guess)

Just need a little clarification


			
				EForest said:
			
		

> I can raise all 3000 gal to 180-200* in 4 -5 hours depending on what i burn.



Unless I did something wrong, ((180-100)*8*3000gal)/5hrs = 384,000 Btu/hr. What is the unit rated at for btu/hr an how much wood does this 5 hr burn use?

Jimbo


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## EForest (Aug 26, 2008)

Actually I can get the job done in 3 hrs but that last 20* is a stretch. To go from 180* to 200* takes another 1-2 hrs but by then it's mostly coals. The boiler was built to run flat out at 750K/hr but I got to 800K a few times. I'm working on obtaining (and learning to use) video editing software so I can upload a video to youtube. The Switzer 1050 3 pass is an amazing machine that always burns clean.

I burn two to three wheelbarrel loads per burn (@ 18-20 cu.ft.)


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## loggie (Aug 27, 2008)

ED nice install,I picked up my boiler from Gary Saturday evening,mine is a 1250 3 pass looks very similar to yours only mine has 9 tubes on the second and third passes.Gary thinks 3 to 4 hours to get up to temp with a very clean burn,I am not going to add any additional storage to mine for now.I will be installing mine myself and getting it into the basement this weekend.Gary is swamped and I do not think he is taking any more orders for this year.


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## EForest (Aug 27, 2008)

congrats on the wise choice loggie!
how do you plan to tie in the Switzer; copper, pex, or black pipe?
will your existing boiler remain as backup?

You will be pleasantly surprised when you get it going. My system is set up to heat the boiler 1050 gal to 140* before the mix valve starts. So far every burn raises the top of the boiler @ 1* per minute until the mix pump starts. After mix starts all 3K raises @ 25*-30* per hr until evrything reaches 180* the top tank tends to lag behind until the end by @ 10-15*. I haven't the need to know whats happening at different levels in the tanks so I've only installed temp gages at the top of each tank. Less to think about is fine with me when it comes to heat. Maybe when I retire in a few/several years I'll tinker with sensors and gadgets related to heat.


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## GARYL (Aug 27, 2008)

WOW Ed   Just put some wheels on it and lay some track..........Impressive. I am still leaning toward a Switzer if for no other reason than the builder himself. Gary seems to be a great guy. We are going out to see his place in the fall. My wife will be floored...she hasn't got a clue as to how big these boilers are. 

Based on what you have experienced so far, how much wood do you think you will use this winter and for how many square ft? Is there much heat in your basement from the boiler? It looks like a great insulation package for the boiler, how did you insulate the tanks and are they in the basement too?

The pics were worth waiting for.

Thanks,
Gary


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## EForest (Aug 27, 2008)

GARYL said:
			
		

> Based on what you have experienced so far, how much wood do you think you will use this winter and for how many square ft? Is there much heat in your basement from the boiler? It looks like a great insulation package for the boiler, how did you insulate the tanks and are they in the basement too?



I hope to burn 8 cord for 3600 sq ft plus 2 car attached garage. If the barn is done in time that could chew up another 4.
The barn is two floors 1800 sq ft each. I'll keep it in the mid 50*s.
The basement is very toasty from heat loss. The front and rear of boiler have only 1" of duct board. That's the only thing about the Switzer I would change. It should have 4" but the steel doors cannot be insulated and still be accessible for tube cleaning. So I'll live with the heat loss. A toasty basement will result in warmer floors which can only increase the WAF.
I insulated the tanks with 2 layers of 2" foil faced polyiso purchased at the big box. I have my insulation guy coming to fill the space around the tanks with blown in cellulose soon. As is the tanks hold the heat better than the boiler by 20*.


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## loggie (Aug 28, 2008)

ED,THANKS FOR THE REASSURANCE,I am planning to keep my existing oil boiler as a backup and running        1 1/4" black pipe to tie into the existing loop which has the zones for the radiant off of it.I guess it does look a little like the inside the cab of a steam locomotive standing in front of a switzer.I have my work cut out for me with this project,I hope I can get up and running before the first cold snap.


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## EForest (Aug 28, 2008)

I had to burn today after 18 days since the last burn.. sort of. I burned a barrel of old books and magazines 11 days ago to get rid of them. Today I experimented with some small (2-5") unsplit rounds cut last fall and left uncovered and unstacked. Needless to say they were a little moist. I chucked three wheel barrel loads in over two hours and the results were a little off the norm.
With dry splits or scrap lumber I can raise the first two tanks 50* and the third tank 40* in two hrs. I'm down by 10* for each tank tonight. Green wood has cost me a lot of efficiency today. I'm glad I've got lots of seasoned splits for this winter.


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## EForest (Aug 28, 2008)

Green wood update:
At 3rd hour raised 60* boiler(1st tank), 60* 2nd tank, 40* 3rd tank. Then I tossed in some really dry stuff over the coals and the boiler jumped 10* in 15 min. and tank 2 jumped 5* with no change yet in tank 3. I hate to sound like a broken record but sh*% I love the Switzer.


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## Willman (Aug 28, 2008)

> I hate to sound like a broken record


Or maybe a scratched CD. 
Ah the real value proven  of well seasoned wood. Have you checked the actual MC of your fuel ?


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## begreen (Aug 28, 2008)

OMG, that boiler looks like it was made for the Titanic. Very impressive!


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## EForest (Aug 28, 2008)

Seasoned wood update;
another 15 min another 10* ALL 3 Tanks
i must have hit the sweet spot. 
I have not checked the MC of my wood piles but after tonight I might make the investment in a moisture gauge.

Another awesome tidbit about my setup;
when the wife complains about no DHW I can supply a satisfying demand in under 20 min because of the high DHW coil placement in the rear of all Switzer boilers.


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## EForest (Aug 28, 2008)

The beast is still full of coals but I'm out of steam. It's been four hrs since touch off. 
The bottom line after burning mostly green-ish:
+70* boiler (1050 gal), +80* 2nd (1000 gal bottom tank, first fed off mix), +60* 3rd 1000 gal tank (stacked over 2nd).
The final results are @ 437,000 BTU/HR. 
Oops, I need to burn only dry stuff :bug:


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## GARYL (Aug 28, 2008)

EForest said:
			
		

> The basement is very toasty from heat loss. The front and rear of boiler have only 1" of duct board. That's the only thing about the Switzer I would change. It should have 4" but the steel doors cannot be insulated and still be accessible for tube cleaning. So I'll live with the heat loss. A toasty basement will result in warmer floors which can only increase the WAF.
> I insulated the tanks with 2 layers of 2" foil faced polyiso purchased at the big box. I have my insulation guy coming to fill the space around the tanks with blown in cellulose soon. As is the tanks hold the heat better than the boiler by 20*.



Ed:
Now I am a little concerned that a Switzer may not be the one for me. I plan on installing in an unheated outbuilding and am concerned about heat loss you described from the boiler. Is there a way to limit the loss and still get at the tubes for cleaning? I am gonna be mightily disappointed if I have to eliminate the Switzer from my short list. :down: 

Gary


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## EForest (Aug 28, 2008)

Now I am a little concerned that a Switzer may not be the one for me. 


Gary,
I put an indoor/outdoor thermometer on a table @ 8' from the boiler with the outdoor bulb at the ceiling 4' from loading door this morning. The table temp is 75* and the ceiling temp is 83*. Outside temp is 60*. Last nights burn was not so great, in the end I was able to raise the first 2 tanks 80* but the third never caught up. #3 stayed at 60* gain. So I've got two tanks at 180* and one at 160* and 4' away the ceiling is 83*. I will experiment with some duct board on the ends and post results. The top and sides have three layers of r19 fiberglas, and bottom of a switzer has 2 layers r19. The top and sides are always cool to the touch. The front and rear are always warm.


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## mpilihp (Aug 28, 2008)

Wholy cow, how in the world did you manuver those tanks inside the building.  Do you mind telling how you lifted the tank up to set it on the first one?  I see the pic where its up in the air with the rafters right over it, it appears to be floating


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## EForest (Aug 28, 2008)

two come-a-longs fed over steel pipe between joists to a second pipe a couple feet away.
I raised the top tank to floor joists, slid bottom tank under then lowered top tank. Gary did all the welding and fitting in his shop.
the two fit together with little effort.


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## smangold (Aug 29, 2008)

Hi, A switzer needs to be in a insulated shed as the piping around it would freeze.It probaly doesn't need to be super insulated. Also hi, Ed ,long time no see.


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