# How to deal with a firewood ripoff?



## Tom Wallace (Jul 28, 2013)

I ordered some firewood last week from a guy on Craigslist. I've actually had good experience with this in the past, but this guy has turned into a real jerk. I ordered a cord. When he showed up, I immediately guessed his load was way less than a cord, and told him so. When he unloaded it and I stacked it, we measured it together. It was 7' x 3' x 3.5'. Which is 73 cubic feet. Roughly 59% of a cord.

His fee was $225 for the cord, and I stupidly agreed to pay that along with the agreement that he'd deliver the rest of the firewood Friday of last week. You can probably guess where this is going. He didn't show on Friday. I've called him and setup times for him to delivery multiple times since then and he never shows up, never calls me to say he's not coming. He's got excuses after excuses. At this point I'm convinced he has no intention of ever bringing me more firewood.

I know that it was a huge mistake on my part to pay for the whole cord when only 59% of a cord was delivered. But what are my options for dealing with this guy? He has many ads listed on Craigslist still: http://seattle.craigslist.org/searc...919&zoomToPosting=&srchType=A&minAsk=&maxAsk=. I only have his first name and his phone number. I've contemplated sending him on deliveries to vacant houses to waste his time and gas money. I hate being robbed, and this guy is proving himself to be a thief.


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## Augie (Jul 28, 2013)

Small Claims or suck it up and take the loss


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## lumbering on (Jul 28, 2013)

You can notify craiglist of a suspected scam:

http://www.craigslist.org/about/scams

I wonder what the legal implications (slander/libel) if you posted an ad in the firewood section, but title it  something like "beware of this scammer" and keep doing it until he makes it right.


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## Ashful (Jul 28, 2013)

lumbering on said:


> You can notify craiglist of a suspected scam


 
+1

I can understand you being pissed, but assuming this was just one cord (and not ten!) I'd just consider it a not-very-expensive learning experience. I'd not be wasting my time in small claims court over 41% of $225.

I would definitely NOT monkey with the seller. It's just going to come back to bite you in the ass, at some point.

<-- has been taken for much more than that, more than once


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## paul bunion (Jul 28, 2013)

http://agr.wa.gov/Inspection/WeightsMeasures/FirewoodInformation.aspx


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## BrotherBart (Jul 28, 2013)

Send a link to that to his craigslist email address.


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## Ram 1500 with an axe... (Jul 28, 2013)

Call the bbb


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## Applesister (Jul 28, 2013)

Contact Weighs and Measures and DEC and report the guy. Also, there are many posts on Craigslist of people who are scamming buyers. You can put an Ad in Craigslist allerting others to which persons are scamming.
This crap is what makes it hard for decent wood dealers.
Keep calling the guy also.


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## Tom Wallace (Jul 28, 2013)

Applesister said:


> Contact Weighs and Measures and DEC and report the guy. Also, there are many posts on Craigslist of people who are scamming buyers. You can put an Ad in Craigslist allerting others to which persons are scamming.
> This crap is what makes it hard for decent wood dealers.
> Keep calling the guy also.


 
Thanks, I went that route last night, regarding the Weights and Measures. I was directed to this site: http://www.seattle.gov/consumeraffairs/whenHow.htm, and I contacted them with the details.

I've thought about placing an "ad" on Craigslist warning people not to deal with him, but my gut says that ad would just be removed since it's not an ad. I can give it a shot, though.


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## Tom Wallace (Jul 28, 2013)

Ram 1500 with an axe... said:


> Call the bbb


 
I'm not sure if that would help. This guy strikes me as just some guy with access to a lot of firewood. I'd be pretty surprised if he was actually running a legitimate business.


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## Ram 1500 with an axe... (Jul 28, 2013)

Tom Wallace said:


> I'm not sure if that would help. This guy strikes me as just some guy with access to a lot of firewood. I'd be pretty surprised if he was actually running a legitimate business.


Then call the IRS


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## Applesister (Jul 28, 2013)

I read the warnings and I heed the warnings of scammers selling firewood on Craigslist. Its most likely a track cell phone number as well. With no traceable address.
I read Ads like, "Beware The person selling cords for $225.00 is scamming buyers!!"


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## MrWhoopee (Jul 28, 2013)

Post an add for a free 1/2 cord with every cord purchased, free delivery and stacking included. Put his phone number on it. Then place an add for a free 32 in. LCD tv. Then place an add.....
It works, I've done it.


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## Soundchasm (Jul 29, 2013)

> I've thought about placing an "ad" on Craigslist warning people not to deal with him, but my gut says that ad would just be removed since it's not an ad. I can give it a shot, though.


 
Just went through this last Feb or so. Simply did NOT have the experience to know that a pickup can't hold a cord. After stacking, it was 60% a cord, tops. I called this kid every other day for two weeks. I placed an ad on CL using the guy's exact ad subject line with a beware, pickups don't hold cords, and the ad was flagged and removed. But it should have been removed because I placed it in the "for sale" section. I wasn't selling anything. Look for some miscellaneous advice-type subject area, and maybe you can tag the ad so it will come up in searches for firewood. You can make the ad very general, but read specifically referencing his ad. I'm no lawyer, but I don't think it's libel if it's the truth.

This kid did finally bring some more wood (still not what I paid for), but the relief of moving on also motivated me to really get my act together for this winter. Never again...


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## USMC80 (Jul 29, 2013)

Tom Wallace said:


> Thanks, I went that route last night, regarding the Weights and Measures. I was directed to this site: http://www.seattle.gov/consumeraffairs/whenHow.htm, and I contacted them with the details.
> 
> I've thought about placing an "ad" on Craigslist warning people not to deal with him, but my gut says that ad would just be removed since it's not an ad. I can give it a shot, though.


 

A guy in NJ does just that.  Put's the name of the business and warns people that he is a scam artist.  It stays up for days and he keeps reposting it lol


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## Tom Wallace (Jul 29, 2013)

Thanks all for the advice. I've posted a warning on Craigslist about this guy: http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/hss/3967910722.html

Hope it doesn't get flagged and removed immediately. If so, I'll keep reposting it. Should I notify this guy of this warning I've posted? I feel if I do, he'll just flag it for removal. But if I don't, how will he know it's me that's putting a dent in his business (assuming it works)?

Edit: I just realized that because I posted this in the services section, it's not showing up in search results for firewood. I'm not sure how to get around that. I can post in the for sale section, but then it's likely to be removed, since I'm not selling anything.

Edit2: I just posted this in for sale section as well: http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/for/3967923647.html.


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## loadstarken (Jul 29, 2013)

That sucks sorry to hear that! 

Did you get his license plate by chance when he dropped off the wood?


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## Tom Wallace (Jul 29, 2013)

Nope, I thought about it at the time. Not sure what I could do with that info anyway, though.


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## loadstarken (Jul 29, 2013)

It would of been nice to have it just in case.  

You can barely see it in one of his pictures but its blocked by the wheelbarrow handle.


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## Tom Wallace (Jul 29, 2013)

Yep, I saw that too. I was hoping he left it in a photo. Curse that wheel barrel!


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## loadstarken (Jul 29, 2013)

In one of his ads he offers "u-haul" so you should call from a different number and see if he'll give you his address!   Boom!


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## Tom Wallace (Jul 29, 2013)

Haha, great idea.


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## Backwoods Savage (Jul 29, 2013)

Dang! You fellows come up with some great ideas!

Good luck Tom and if nothing else, you have learned a valuable lesson and hopefully some readers of this forum will also learn from it before getting ripped off.


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## Ram 1500 with an axe... (Jul 29, 2013)

Most get F***ed through some point in our lives, hopefully you and all that read this and learn about this, life goes around, it's a shame things like this has to happen... Hey  I had to pay $200 for a face cord to get my new insert going with decent wood, I got it with a smile,  but I wasn't making  a choice, I had to have it...


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## Bigg_Redd (Jul 29, 2013)

Tom Wallace said:


> I ordered some firewood last week from a guy on Craigslist. I've actually had good experience with this in the past, but this guy has turned into a real jerk. I ordered a cord. When he showed up, I immediately guessed his load was way less than a cord, and told him so. When he unloaded it and I stacked it, we measured it together. It was 7' x 3' x 3.5'. Which is 73 cubic feet. Roughly 59% of a cord.
> 
> His fee was $225 for the cord, and I stupidly agreed to pay that along with the agreement that he'd deliver the rest of the firewood Friday of last week. You can probably guess where this is going. He didn't show on Friday. I've called him and setup times for him to delivery multiple times since then and he never shows up, never calls me to say he's not coming. He's got excuses after excuses. At this point I'm convinced he has no intention of ever bringing me more firewood.
> 
> I know that it was a huge mistake on my part to pay for the whole cord when only 59% of a cord was delivered. But what are my options for dealing with this guy? He has many ads listed on Craigslist still: http://seattle.craigslist.org/searc...919&zoomToPosting=&srchType=A&minAsk=&maxAsk=. I only have his first name and his phone number. I've contemplated sending him on deliveries to vacant houses to waste his time and gas money. I hate being robbed, and this guy is proving himself to be a thief.


 
Fraud/theft is still against the law - file a police report.  Then get a saw, and a truck, and an ax, and cut your own wood.


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## NortheastAl (Jul 29, 2013)

paul bunion said:


> http://agr.wa.gov/Inspection/WeightsMeasures/FirewoodInformation.aspx


I'd like to see those regs in place on the east coast. Hard to get a fix on what is called a cord by one sellers.


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## paul bunion (Jul 30, 2013)

NortheastAl said:


> I'd like to see those regs in place on the east coast. Hard to get a fix on what is called a cord by one sellers.



Lots of states do. And it looks like they all copied each other. They read pretty much word for word the same.  

CT http://www.ct.gov/dcp/cwp/view.asp?a=1621&q=303260
NJ  http://www.njconsumeraffairs.gov/weights/tips.htm


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## Paulywalnut (Jul 30, 2013)

You're out roughly 100.00 from a bad experience. I'm sure you won't do that again. Lesson learned... priceless.
But, put some signs out and  about with free firewood and the creeps phone number.


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## mustash29 (Jul 31, 2013)

Similar thing happened with me in Feb '12. I ordered 2 cord of mixed hardwood chunks cut to 20" for $200. Come to find out a lot of it was not exactly good hardwood, lots of poplar and some ash, it burnt pretty fast.

Basic mason dump with side boards, just thrown in. The truck allmost fell appart when he was dumping, it was that rusted up.

I split and stacked it that afternoon and was short, but had paid for 2 cord.

I called him back:
- I demand the rest of my 2 cords, you shorted me, deliver the rest at no additional charge or else.
- CT law states that it should be stacked in such a manner that a squirrel may enter the stack but a cat can't chase it.
- My neighbor, a landscaper / fence installer, who used to deal in firewood, agreed that it was a crap load.
- My GF works in the courthouse & knows every judge & lawer in the county, she paid for the wood and she is PISSED.
- WHAT IS YOUR FIREWOOD DEALER LISCENSE NUMBER and TAX ID NUMBER?
- 20" +/- 1" means 19 - 21", not 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 12, 14, 28.

When he arrived with load #2, it was a bit smaller, still cut to irregular lengths, still crap, etc. I wound up with 1.75 of the 2 cord I ordered for the 200 I spent.

He got REALLY pissed when I told him to take some of that $$$ and go buy a new tape measure and stop by the library and read a tree ID book.  We agreed to never do business each other again.

First load split:





First load split & stacked on three 40 x 48 plastic pallets. The pallets were 40 deep and 48 wide. Stack was a bit tall. Due to the wood being cut at much less than the requested 20" length, it was still less than 2 cord. When the pile on the right was added to the stacks it barely filled the pallets up squarely.


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## Jacktheknife (Jul 31, 2013)

Tom Wallace said:


> I ordered some firewood last week from a guy on Craigslist. I've actually had good experience with this in the past, but this guy has turned into a real jerk. I ordered a cord. When he showed up, I immediately guessed his load was way less than a cord, and told him so. When he unloaded it and I stacked it, we measured it together. It was 7' x 3' x 3.5'. Which is 73 cubic feet. Roughly 59% of a cord.
> 
> His fee was $225 for the cord, and I stupidly agreed to pay that along with the agreement that he'd deliver the rest of the firewood Friday of last week. You can probably guess where this is going. He didn't show on Friday. I've called him and setup times for him to delivery multiple times since then and he never shows up, never calls me to say he's not coming. He's got excuses after excuses. At this point I'm convinced he has no intention of ever bringing me more firewood.
> 
> I know that it was a huge mistake on my part to pay for the whole cord when only 59% of a cord was delivered. But what are my options for dealing with this guy? He has many ads listed on Craigslist still: http://seattle.craigslist.org/searc...919&zoomToPosting=&srchType=A&minAsk=&maxAsk=. I only have his first name and his phone number. I've contemplated sending him on deliveries to vacant houses to waste his time and gas money. I hate being robbed, and this guy is proving himself to be a thief.



I have been following this story but have reserved comment thus far. I know that hindsight isn't helpful to you now, but my advise to anyone else who comes into the same problem is to only pay for what was delivered. In your case 59% of $225 is $132.75. Tell him that he will get the rest of the money when he delivers the rest of the wood. Worst case scenario is he throws a moody and loads his wood back up and you pay nothing.


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## jeff_t (Jul 31, 2013)

If you can't haul your own, it's best to at least get a look at what you're buying before it's delivered. If you only see piles of firewood, and no stacks, there is almost no likelihood you're going to get exactly what you order. I'm sure most sellers are going to estimate in their own favor, and many, if not most, customers aren't going to know any different.


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## Ashful (Jul 31, 2013)

Jacktheknife said:


> ...only pay for what was delivered. In your case 59% of $225 is $132.75. Tell him that he will get the rest of the money when he delivers the rest of the wood.


 

My initial thought was the same, but I imagine the exact measure of what's been delivered is typically not realized until some time after the seller is gone.


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## Jacktheknife (Jul 31, 2013)

Joful said:


> My initial thought was the same, but I imagine the exact measure of what's been delivered is typically not realized until some time after the seller is gone.


Yep, but he stated that he stacked and then measured it with the guy. That is good practice for a first time delivery.


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## Tom Wallace (Jul 31, 2013)

I'd had cords delivered before to my house before. I have a raised porch, under which I store the firewood. I know that a true cord will just barely fit under that porch when stacked in three rows. This guy's delivery was just short of filling two rows, so I knew it was short of a cord. I was stacking as he was tossing it out of the truck, so I was nearly done stacking when he was done emptying his truck. Plus I know that a standard sized pickup truck with sideboards should be pretty much full if it's got a cord in it. This was no where near full and I told him when he showed up that I didn't think it was a cord based on seeing his truck load.

I haven't seen him post any more ads for wood and my Craigslist ad warning people not to buy from him is still up. If I see him post more, I'll repost my ad so that hopefully it shows up right next to his in the search results.

I got a response from the Weights and Measures department in my area. Unfortunately they lack the budget to pursue these kind of complaints as of 2011, and recommended small claims court. I'm not going to bother with that hassle for roughly $100. He'd likely deny my claims and it'd be my word against his and I'd likely lose I think. I think I'll just stick to harassing him with Craigslist ads warning others not to buy from him.

I did find someone giving away free rounds of douglas fir that I'm picking up tonight. I've got a Fiskars Super Splitter and will rent a Uhaul trailer to take it home tonight. It was only downed a month ago, but the guy claims the tree was standing dead. I'm not sure how dry it is yet, but hey, free wood! Hard to turn that down.


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## Jacktheknife (Jul 31, 2013)

You should do an exposé on firewood con-men. Tom Wallace is a name that could work for 20/20 or 60 Minutes.


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## Tom Wallace (Jul 31, 2013)

Haha, I actually have a brother named Mike. Maybe I'll get him to do it.


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## DuckDog (Jul 31, 2013)

I got stung last year. Ordered 2 cord and was over 1/3 of a cord short. Called and let him know there was a mistake. I was very cool about it giving him the opprotunity to make it right and save face. I never heard back. Cash sale........All I can do is never order form him again.


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## Ashful (Jul 31, 2013)

Too much business is done this way.  Rather than having a likely customer for many years (possibly decades), he'll short you to save a few bucks on one sale, and probably never hear from you again.

I have the same trouble with renovation contractors, who base their price more on what they (falsely) assume I can afford, than the actual work to be done.


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## Bigg_Redd (Jul 31, 2013)

Tom Wallace said:


> I'd had cords delivered before to my house before. I have a raised porch, under which I store the firewood. I know that a true cord will just barely fit under that porch when stacked in three rows. This guy's delivery was just short of filling two rows, so I knew it was short of a cord. I was stacking as he was tossing it out of the truck, so I was nearly done stacking when he was done emptying his truck. Plus I know that a standard sized pickup truck with sideboards should be pretty much full if it's got a cord in it. This was no where near full and I told him when he showed up that I didn't think it was a cord based on seeing his truck load.
> 
> I haven't seen him post any more ads for wood and my Craigslist ad warning people not to buy from him is still up. If I see him post more, I'll repost my ad so that hopefully it shows up right next to his in the search results.
> 
> ...


 
Doug Fir = the Taco Time of firewood


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## MrWhoopee (Jul 31, 2013)

When I was buying wood, I took a tape measure and calculator out to the truck when it arrived. I calculated the load before any was unloaded and let them know how much I would pay based on the calculations. Some didn't like it, but you can't argue with the math.


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## Tom Wallace (Aug 1, 2013)

I picked up the free wood tonight. Was way more than I thought based on the photos. I was thinking it was about 1/3 of a cord. When I arrived, I could see the rounds were much bigger than they looked in the photo. There's 34 rounds. I measured an average sized one amongst them. It was 17" x 20" x 20". Multiplying that piece times 34, I get 133.8 cubic feet. Just over a cord.

I brought along my Fiskars Super Splitter, figuring I could get some of the big pieces split down for easier loading. No dice. Those rounds just absorbed my axe like a sponge. I've normally had great luck with that axe, but I guess it's not made for wet, soft wood. The tree was felled in May this year I believe. It was dead already and was hollow near the base. I was hoping that it being dead would result in relatively dry wood. Now I've got to figure out how to split this. Maybe rent a log splitter, or hire some tree service company to do it.

I just measured the ends with a moisture meter. Ranges from 19-50%. I haven't split one apart yet to get a reading from inside.

The land owner says it's either douglas fir or hemlock. I've read that hemlock is a really bad wood for firewood. I think douglas fir is so so, and is very common around here. I've eaten Taco Time. It's not bad.


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## red oak (Aug 1, 2013)

Tom Wallace said:


> I picked up the free wood tonight. Was way more than I thought based on the photos. I was thinking it was about 1/3 of a cord. When I arrived, I could see the rounds were much bigger than they looked in the photo. There's 34 rounds. I measured an average sized one amongst them. It was 17" x 20" x 20". Multiplying that piece times 34, I get 133.8 cubic feet. Just over a cord.
> 
> I brought along my Fiskars Super Splitter, figuring I could get some of the big pieces split down for easier loading. No dice. Those rounds just absorbed my axe like a sponge. I've normally had great luck with that axe, but I guess it's not made for wet, soft wood. The tree was felled in May this year I believe. It was dead already and was hollow near the base. I was hoping that it being dead would result in relatively dry wood. Now I've got to figure out how to split this. Maybe rent a log splitter, or hire some tree service company to do it.
> 
> ...


 
I think renting a splitter would be cheaper.  I've had the same experience with soft wood like that, and had to break out the sledge hammer and wedges.  Once you get it split and stacked it should be much drier in a few months.


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## Ashful (Aug 1, 2013)

For many years, I split most of my wood by hand. Anything too difficult would get set aside in a separate pile. When that pile would get big enough to justify it, or any time I'd get behind on my hand splitting, I'd rent a hydraulic splitter for the day.

Cost to rent is typically $50 from any one of a dozen individuals on Craigslist, or $90 from a real rental company.  I always went with the rental company, worried how I'd deal with it if I broke some private individual's splitter.


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## Bigg_Redd (Aug 1, 2013)

Tom Wallace said:


> I picked up the free wood tonight. Was way more than I thought based on the photos. I was thinking it was about 1/3 of a cord. When I arrived, I could see the rounds were much bigger than they looked in the photo. There's 34 rounds. I measured an average sized one amongst them. It was 17" x 20" x 20". Multiplying that piece times 34, I get 133.8 cubic feet. Just over a cord.
> 
> I brought along my Fiskars Super Splitter, figuring I could get some of the big pieces split down for easier loading. No dice. Those rounds just absorbed my axe like a sponge. I've normally had great luck with that axe, but I guess it's not made for wet, soft wood. The tree was felled in May this year I believe. It was dead already and was hollow near the base. I was hoping that it being dead would result in relatively dry wood. Now I've got to figure out how to split this. Maybe rent a log splitter, or hire some tree service company to do it.
> 
> ...


 

Hemlock is so so

Doug Fir is outstanding - don't believe all the east coast hardwood hype you read here. I've never heard of 2+year old Doug Fir not being ready to burn, for example.


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## Ashful (Aug 1, 2013)

Bigg_Redd said:


> Doug Fir is outstanding - don't believe all the east coast hardwood hype you read here. I've never heard of 2+year old Doug Fir not being ready to burn, for example.


 

Burn what ya got, but I think a lot of the "hype" has more to do with BTU's and burn time, than how quickly it seasons. Comparing to the few trees I see most in our woods:

Doug Fir: 17.4 MBTU/cord (baseline)

Shag Hickory: 25.3 MBTU/cord (45% higher than DF)
White Oak: 24.2 MBTU/cord (39% higher than DF)
Red Oak: 22.1 MBTU/cord (27% higher than DF)
White Ash: 21.6 MBTU/cord (24% higher than DF)
Black Walnut: 20.0 MBTU/cord (15% higher than DF)


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## Bigg_Redd (Aug 1, 2013)

Joful said:


> Burn what ya got, but I think a lot of the "hype" has more to do with BTU's and burn time, than how quickly it seasons. Comparing to the few trees I see most in our woods:
> 
> Doug Fir: 17.4 MBTU/cord (baseline)
> 
> ...


 

It's a common misconception that our "softwoods" = east coast softwoods.  Doug Fir is much better firewood than any other coniferous species, and it doesn't require one to get 2+ years ahead in order to burn decently dry wood.


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## Tom Wallace (Aug 1, 2013)

Where I live, we have mild winters, so I don't think I'll need too much BTU from my wood. A free cord of decent wood will likely heat my house for half the winter or more.

Here's a pic of my free wood score from last night.







For reference, that is a 6' fence behind it. You can see that some pieces are hollow. Those were towards the base of the tree, and I'm guessing the owner cut it down before it fell down on his house.

I moved it all by myself using a Uhaul trailer. Fun night. I'm sore now.


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## red oak (Aug 1, 2013)

Bigg_Redd said:


> It's a common misconception that our "softwoods" = east coast softwoods. Doug Fir is much better firewood than any other coniferous species, and it doesn't require one to get 2+ years ahead in order to burn decently dry wood.


 
Softwoods here in the East can season in a year or less, I've burned white pine that seasoned in 4 months over the summer.  Not the best BTUs of course.  Many hardwoods will also season in a year, including maple and locust. 

Never burned Douglas Fir.  How long does it take to season?


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## MrWhoopee (Aug 1, 2013)

Tom Wallace said:


> The land owner says it's either douglas fir or hemlock. I've read that hemlock is a really bad wood for firewood. I think douglas fir is so so, and is very common around here. I've eaten Taco Time. It's not bad.


 
Down here, Doug Fir is second only to black oak. I guess it depends on what you compare it to. DF is 23.5 - 26.6 mBTU/cord, black oak (Quercus kelloggii) is 25.8 - 27.4 mBTU/cord.
http://www.consumerenergycenter.org/home/heating_cooling/firewood.html

Don't turn your nose up at DF.


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## Tom Wallace (Aug 1, 2013)

MrWhoopee said:


> Don't turn your nose up at DF.


 

Especially not free Douglas fir.


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## Ashful (Aug 1, 2013)

Joful said:


> Doug Fir: 17.4 MBTU/cord (baseline)
> Red Oak: 22.1 MBTU/cord (27% higher than DF)


 


MrWhoopee said:


> DF is 23.5 - 26.6 mBTU/cord, black oak (Quercus kelloggii) is 25.8 - 27.4 mBTU/cord.
> http://www.consumerenergycenter.org/home/heating_cooling/firewood.html


 
I've not used doug fir in cord wood form, but I've laid miles of it as flooring, there is simply NO WAY it is higher than red oak in BTU content.  

http://chimneysweeponline.com/howood.htm

Here's another way of looking at it, as we all know the old adage, "dry weight is BTU's."  Doug Fir = 33 lb/cu.ft.  Red Oak = 45 lb/cu.ft.  Both dry and seasoned.

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/wood-density-d_40.html


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## MrWhoopee (Aug 1, 2013)

Joful said:


> I've not used doug fir in cord wood form, but I've laid miles of it as flooring, there is simply NO WAY it is higher than red oak in BTU content.
> 
> http://chimneysweeponline.com/howood.htm
> 
> ...


 
To quote Gallagher:
"I don't make this stuff up, I just report it"

I make no claim for red oak. If the table I referenced had listed red oak, I'm sure the number would have been higher than black oak (and higher than the value you quoted). The tables referenced use different values for the actual amount of wood in a cord (after deducting the air between splits) and I am sure there are other variations in the way the numbers were calculated. The values in one table do not compare directly to those in another.

My point was that, compared to other firewood available in the PNW, Doug Fir is no slouch.


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## Bigg_Redd (Aug 2, 2013)

red oak said:


> Softwoods here in the East can season in a year or less, I've burned white pine that seasoned in 4 months over the summer. Not the best BTUs of course. Many hardwoods will also season in a year, including maple and locust.
> 
> Never burned Douglas Fir.* How long does it take to season?*


 
4-6 months


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## Bigg_Redd (Aug 2, 2013)

Tom Wallace said:


> Especially not free Douglas fir.


 
Looking at that bark I'm pretty sure you got Hemlock there, which would explain it's difficulty in splitting.


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## Tom Wallace (Aug 2, 2013)

Bigg_Redd said:


> Looking at that bark I'm pretty sure you got Hemlock there, which would explain it's difficulty in splitting.


 
I managed to split 5 of the rounds after work today. Just had to use some technique, look for the existing cracks and try to split those. Some came apart easier than others.

There's some rot in the center of the rounds that were near the base of the tree. The wood in that center region of those rounds is like wet cardboard. I saw some carpenter ants in it last night, too. I may be able to get the rest of it split without having to rent a lot splitter. It's a good workout.


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## Bigg_Redd (Aug 2, 2013)

Tom Wallace said:


> I managed to split 5 of the rounds after work today. Just had to use some technique, look for the existing cracks and try to split those. Some came apart easier than others.
> 
> There's some rot in the center of the rounds that were near the base of the tree. The wood in that center region of those rounds is like wet cardboard. I saw some carpenter ants in it last night, too. I may be able to get the rest of it split without having to rent a lot splitter. It's a good workout.


 

Punky wood is pretty much impossible to split - aim for the outer edges were the wood is solid. 

On solid, yet tough to split, rounds do what you are doing by exploiting existing cracks.  If that fails to achieve satisfactory results try peeling it from the outside like an onion.


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## AGuy4That (Dec 8, 2014)

I've bought wood and have been scammed to varying degrees everytime.
The only way to deal with this is to cut your own. Love this site.


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## Ashful (Dec 8, 2014)

Ditto.  I have never bought wood and been entirely happy with what I got.


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## jdogg (Dec 9, 2014)

Tom Wallace said:


> I managed to split 5 of the rounds after work today. Just had to use some technique, look for the existing cracks and try to split those. Some came apart easier than others.
> 
> There's some rot in the center of the rounds that were near the base of the tree. The wood in that center region of those rounds is like wet cardboard. I saw some carpenter ants in it last night, too. I may be able to get the rest of it split without having to rent a lot splitter. It's a good workout.


 
Give it a go with a 8lb maul rather than a axe. A maul is harder to swing but won't stick in the wood near as bad. Also try to split it in below freezing temps when the water in the rounds is frozen.


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## Bassmantweed (Dec 9, 2014)

The trouble with buying wood is why I went pellet. 

If you have free good wood then A wood stove makes perfect sense.  If you are going to buy wood you might as well buy it in a bag.

I still have my woodstove and will get back to harvesting my own wood, but for now it's pellets for me.


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## BrotherBart (Dec 9, 2014)

Bassmantweed said:


> The trouble with buying wood is why I went pellet.
> 
> If you have free good wood then A wood stove makes perfect sense.  If you are going to buy wood you might as well buy it in a bag.
> 
> I still have my woodstove and will get back to harvesting my own wood, but for now it's pellets for me.



From the comments in the pellet room, buying pellets is just as big a crap shoot as buying cord wood.


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## Bassmantweed (Dec 9, 2014)

BrotherBart said:


> From the comments in the pellet room, buying pellets is just as big a crap shoot as buying cord wood.



I'm the new guy around here but I've not seen anyone getting shorted on bags.  I had a different problem with buying wood, it was usually too wet to burn.   I have not had that problem since going pellet. Granted I have only burned 6 or 7 different types. 

I also didn't goof around with my stove and can burn almost any pellet.   Both definitely have their pros and cons.


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## Ashful (Dec 9, 2014)

I think Bart is referring to:

a) Pellet quality, a constant frustration.  I think fully half the posts by pellet stove owners on this forum are complaints about pellet quality.
b) Pellet shortages.  Those posts start in about three weeks, and continue thru March, almost every year.


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## Bassmantweed (Dec 9, 2014)

Joful said:


> I think Bart is referring to:
> 
> a) Pellet quality, a constant frustration.  I think fully half the posts by pellet stove owners on this forum are complaints about pellet quality.
> b) Pellet shortages.  Those posts start in about three weeks, and continue thru March, almost every year.



Got it.

I guess I have been lucky on the quality.  As far as shortages, I guess if you wait until December to get them then you can't really complain about availability.    Kind of like me not buying wood until October and complaining that it's wet. ;-)

Like I said each have pros and cons.


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## JP11 (Dec 10, 2014)

Fortunate enough to have my own woodlot, and plenty of room for processing.

It's the old saying.. want a job done right?  do it yourself!

I KNOW my wood for next year will be good and dry.  Reason I know.. it's been sitting on my pallets since this summer.  Some of it since last summer.

I know my wood the year after that is gonna be dry.  I'm splitting that now.

JP


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## edge-of-the-woods (Dec 10, 2014)

Applesister said:


> You can put an Ad in Craigslist alerting others to which persons are scamming.



Definitely do this!

Also see if he is on Angie's list, and slam him there if he is.


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## edge-of-the-woods (Dec 10, 2014)

loadstarken said:


> In one of his ads he offers "u-haul" so you should call from a different number and see if he'll give you his address!   Boom!



I like how you think


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## Kevin* (Dec 10, 2014)

Ram 1500 with an axe... said:


> Then call the IRS


X2, I did that on another issue with a business and they were happy to have evidence (receipt) and go after them.


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## sportbikerider78 (Dec 10, 2014)

You should have paid him $132 and called it a day.  59% of a cord.  It is your fault you got screwed.

I regularly buy and sell on craigslist.  No checks.  No promises of anything beyond what is in-front of your face.  For people who don't understand that we are not building a relationship, we are completing a business transaction, they get it.  For the rest, I don't want to talk to them.  You get some weird people and some very nice people that are way too trusting of strangers.


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## Doug MacIVER (Dec 10, 2014)

just went through this in Mass. a no response seller. ended up calling in a complaint to weights and measures. next day the local wts & mea. guy inspected the wood and agreed that I was 1/2 cord short on a 2 cord order. the seller was called that day. he was also called by his own town's wts. guy. apparently the state contacted both local wts & mea. departments. this guy had his wife deliver my refund.  moral call wts & measures, local or state.


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## edge-of-the-woods (Dec 10, 2014)

Doug MacIVER said:


> just went through this in Mass. a no response seller. ended up calling in a complaint to weights and measures. next day the local wts & mea. guy inspected the wood and agreed that I was 1/2 cord short on a 2 cord order. the seller was called that day. he was also called by his own town's wts. guy. apparently the state contacted both local wts & mea. departments. this guy had his wife deliver my refund.  moral call wts & measures, local or state.



How did the guy inspect it?  Did you have it stacked or in a pile?  Just curious how he nailed the guy, I would think the seller could just lie and say you moved some of it or something.


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## Doug MacIVER (Dec 10, 2014)

edge-of-the-woods said:


> How did the guy inspect it?  Did you have it stacked or in a pile?  Just curious how he nailed the guy, I would think the seller could just lie and say you moved some of it or something.


emailed him within one week of delivery, called him ,explained in writing and verbally. wts & meas. saw one cord, saw the second stack,said ok cord and a half not two. i also had forwarded emails to the state with photos. most guys are ok dealing with shorts, this guy was something else. I couldn't burn any as it's not old enough. as far as hiding, moving it? sure he could accuse you of it but 99% of us just want what we contract for. calls from the state folks are what nailed the guy, they don't want to mess with them.


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## 2PistolPacker (Dec 10, 2014)

I've been selling firewood for 10 years and this kind of crap is what gives honest sellers a bad rap. I sell to mostly repeat customers so they know what to expect, a long bed truck will hold about a half a cord, cash only. I sell some on CL and send a picture of the wood stacked and a picture of the empty spot where it was right before delivery. I always encourage first time customers to drop by and pick out the wood they want for themselves, it saves them from worrying about the measurements. Where I do differ is that I expect cash payment before the wood is unloaded, I had a moron try to renegotiate the price of the wood after it was unloaded, figuring I won't want to reload it if we couldn't re-agree. He paid in full and I never unloaded first again. Since Craigslist is unregulated there is not much you can do except harass him. The police can't do anything, but you can warn other people about your experience. I'm doing that right now with a ripoff artist that owns a tree farm, taking deposits for a November planting and never delivering the trees. Check it out in Kansas City CL search for Karl Huffman, the ad is mine.


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## husky345 vermont resolute (Dec 10, 2014)

Tom Wallace said:


> I ordered some firewood last week from a guy on Craigslist. I've actually had good experience with this in the past, but this guy has turned into a real jerk. I ordered a cord. When he showed up, I immediately guessed his load was way less than a cord, and told him so. When he unloaded it and I stacked it, we measured it together. It was 7' x 3' x 3.5'. Which is 73 cubic feet. Roughly 59% of a cord.
> 
> His fee was $225 for the cord, and I stupidly agreed to pay that along with the agreement that he'd deliver the rest of the firewood Friday of last week. You can probably guess where this is going. He didn't show on Friday. I've called him and setup times for him to delivery multiple times since then and he never shows up, never calls me to say he's not coming. He's got excuses after excuses. At this point I'm convinced he has no intention of ever bringing me more firewood.
> 
> I know that it was a huge mistake on my part to pay for the whole cord when only 59% of a cord was delivered. But what are my options for dealing with this guy? He has many ads listed on Craigslist still: http://seattle.craigslist.org/searc...919&zoomToPosting=&srchType=A&minAsk=&maxAsk=. I only have his first name and his phone number. I've contemplated sending him on deliveries to vacant houses to waste his time and gas money. I hate being robbed, and this guy is proving himself to be a thief.


This is the reason I get my own firewood


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## BCC_Burner (Dec 12, 2014)

How much do you want to mess with a guy who knows where you live over 75 dollars worth of wood?  Seems awfully short sighted to me if he is a sleaze.  This is also why I always wear my sidearm very prominently when I get wood, or for that matter, anything delivered to my house.  

Coming to fix the sink?  I'll be standing in the bathroom doorway watching with my phone in one hand taking photos and the other a short twitch away from my .38.


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## Ashful (Dec 12, 2014)

BCC_Burner said:


> How much do you want to mess with a guy who knows where you live over 75 dollars worth of wood?  Seems awfully short sighted to me if he is a sleaze.  This is also why I always wear my sidearm very prominently when I get wood, or for that matter, anything delivered to my house.
> 
> Coming to fix the sink?  I'll be standing in the bathroom doorway watching with my phone in one hand taking photos and the other a short twitch away from my .38.


While I agree completely with your initial point, I hope you're exaggerating on the latter.  They offer medication for paranoia.

Don't sweat the little stuff.  Life's short.  Have a beer.


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## Byrond (Dec 13, 2014)

Don't know if it's been said but I dealt with it by placing an order from neighbors computer and when the scum showed up I gave him the choice of leaving the wood or waiting for the county deputies. Needless to say, I got my wood


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## pen (Dec 13, 2014)

Considering this has been brought back from 1.5 years ago, and with the direction some recent posts are going, I just don't see there being anything more that can constructively be added to this conversation.

Closing things down.


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