# Covid lockdown???



## mcdougy (Dec 20, 2020)

Ontario planning to implement provincewide lockdown, including school closures: sources  | Globalnews.ca
					

The province had previously been planning to implement the lockdown beginning Christmas Eve, but that was later changed to Dec. 26., sources said.




					www.google.ca
				




Looks like we are heading into lockdown again here.....not sure what that will do to the masses here??  Still a dismal outlook for small business owners.


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## mcdougy (Dec 20, 2020)

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						Police arrest 21-year-old at skating rink after bylaw officers say crowd violated COVID-19 regulations
					






					www-cbc-ca.cdn.ampproject.org


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## Eureka (Dec 22, 2020)

Well, at least nobody gets the flu anymore.


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## mcdougy (Dec 22, 2020)

__





						What's allowed and not allowed when Ontario goes into lockdown on Boxing Day
					

Here is a list of what can open and what must remain closed when Ontario goes into lockdown on Boxing Day.




					beta-ctvnews-ca.cdn.ampproject.org
				





Appears the approach is an attempt to stop gathering??......looks like costco will be open,with the small operator being shuttered in? That, i don't understand. All forms of construction are still allowed. The first lockdown in March alot of construction was effected.


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## SpaceBus (Dec 22, 2020)

mcdougy said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I didn't read it that way. Small operators are allowed to be open, but I'm not sure if they fall into the 25 or 50% area. Sounds like any retail establishment can remain open if they are willing to conduct curbside pickups.


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## kennyp2339 (Jan 9, 2021)

Our numbers in Jersey are getting really high, steady mid 5ks, On a higher note, I am getting the vaccine shot today at the local hospital


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## kennyp2339 (Jan 9, 2021)

I got the vaccine this morning, it was no big deal, signed a few forms, showed my id's and got the shot, waited 15min to make sure I didnt have a reaction and off I went. For those that get the flue shot, this was easier feeling, I did see on the news a few people getting shots and saw what looked like a heavy gauge needle and thought it would hurt more, I couldnt even tell by feeling when the needle was in me, second dose is in 4 weeks.


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## Medic21 (Jan 10, 2021)

Eureka said:


> Well, at least nobody gets the flu anymore.


Well, I transported a pt in a ventilator the other day that had Flu, Covid, and pneumonia.  The same combination I have seen in the sickest patients since last April.


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## firefighterjake (Jan 11, 2021)

kennyp2339 said:


> I got the vaccine this morning, it was no big deal, signed a few forms, showed my id's and got the shot, waited 15min to make sure I didnt have a reaction and off I went. For those that get the flue shot, this was easier feeling, I did see on the news a few people getting shots and saw what looked like a heavy gauge needle and thought it would hurt more, I couldnt even tell by feeling when the needle was in me, second dose is in 4 weeks.



I know what you're talking about . . . always seems like when you see footage it looks like the largest needle and appears as though they are taking forever to administer it vs. the quick, small pinch of a jab from when I had it done. Kinda like seeing footage of the swab tests when they appear as though they are trying to poke one's brain with the swab . . . and I realize some tests do go way back there . . . but both tests I had did not go anywhere in that far.


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## kennyp2339 (Jan 11, 2021)

@firefighterjake I figure I would share my experience incase there was someone on the fence that doesnt like needles, as the vaccine opens up to more and more people, people will be searching online to see who got what and if they had a bad experience, my experience was good.


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## firefighterjake (Jan 11, 2021)

kennyp2339 said:


> @firefighterjake I figure I would share my experience incase there was someone on the fence that doesnt like needles, as the vaccine opens up to more and more people, people will be searching online to see who got what and if they had a bad experience, my experience was good.



HehHeh . . . that would be me. I spend most of my life trying to avoid getting punctured by sharp objects. That said . . . after getting sick a month and a half ago with something (not Covid) that knocked me on my butt (I still have some lingering symptoms even) I prefer to not get that sick again.


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## mcdougy (Jan 14, 2021)

They tightened the restrictions further here in Ontario as of today. Stay at home order, some more closures and officially entered a state of emergency again. The numbers aren't great or currently staggering. I believe somewhere in the neighborhood  of 3000 infections a day for this province. The city i live close to (11th biggest in Canada) is about 120 per day. They appear to be in a very big argument if the measures are severe enough, due to the fact that there is no definition of what is a  essential services. Still seems all very strange to me, most people are already taking this stuff seriously and not quite sure what the government is up to.


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## Grizzerbear (Jan 15, 2021)

No lockdowns here...and as far as I can tell no talk of it.


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## ABMax24 (Jan 15, 2021)

We've been on a similar lockdown since the beginning of December. Stores at 15% capacity, no dine in restaurants, take out or delivery only. No salons, massages, etc. No social gatherings, indoors or outdoors. Was a pretty dull Christmas, weren't even allowed to see family outside of your household.

It's really hurt small business, capacity is based on fire code, so large stores are often allowed well over 100 customers inside. The grocery store we use is allowed a couple hundred inside at once, our butcher shop is only allowed 4 customers at a time. 

It's starting to loosen up now, salons and other personal care services will be open by appointment-only starting on Monday.


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## Eureka (Jan 16, 2021)

Just 2 weeks to flatten the curve.


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## SpaceBus (Jan 16, 2021)

My county, one of the least affected and lowest populated in the country, now has seven deaths reported as of yesterday, January 15th. Maine, and the rest of the country, are now paying for the holidays.


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## John Galt (Jan 16, 2021)

Rumors are going around again that there will be a nationwide two week complete lockdown starting next weekend. It could be the crazies just yelling stuff but I can see it happening.


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## Grizzerbear (Jan 16, 2021)

I could see the nationwide lockdown happening, though I don't know what essential businesses would be allowed to continue as it happens. Their was a lot of confusion when this all began about what was considered essential and I assume their will be push back from folks that think they are even if they aren't. I see it as much more likely to enforce though than a nationwide mask mandate. Their aren't enough resources to make sure that mandate is followed.


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## kennyp2339 (Jan 16, 2021)

Since last March, other then for work I really havent left my local geographic area, so essentially I stayed in a bubble, being just outside of NYC metro area our local economy hasn't really been hit to bad, lots of service workers have remained working, other people shifted to work from home being employed by larger corps. 
This past week a small group of us took a trip up north to Gore Mtn (North Creek NY) that area is decently rural but with small town charm area's, the typical Norman Rockwell main streets of mom and pop stores, resturants and small food stores, nothing crazy maybe a large Walmart 30 min away (Hauge NY) let me say this much, those poor people were already slightly depressed before the virus, now it just hurts to see, many small business parking lots havent even been plowed out and also have few tire tracks in the snow, its going to take years  for those folks to bounce back to a normal pre-covid economy, I went online and saw what I thought was a lot of homes for sale compared to the actual population of people.


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## mcdougy (Jan 16, 2021)

Grizzerbear said:


> I could see the nationwide lockdown happening, though I don't know what essential businesses would be allowed to continue as it happens. Their was a lot of confusion when this all began about what was considered essential and I assume their will be push back from folks that think they are even if they aren't. I see it as much more likely to enforce though than a nationwide mask mandate. Their aren't enough resources to make sure that mandate is followed.


The mask thing here was overwhelming accepted in general here.  With the majority of people wanting to do their part in protecting themselves and others. I do know people who refuse to wear a mask and when they are asked why they are not,  they say," for medical reasons they don't wear one." And apparently not much confrontation from their reply. Personally I agree that we may as well try and wear a mask, much more than  agreeing to telling a  businesses that they can not operate.


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## Grizzerbear (Jan 16, 2021)

mcdougy said:


> Personally I agree that we may as well try and wear a mask, much more than agreeing to telling a businesses that they can not operate.



I agree 100%


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## thewoodlands (Jan 16, 2021)

We have a population of just over 108,000 in our county, these are the new cases per day for January 2021.
Jan. 1, 87
Jan. 2, 121
Jan. 3, 29,
Jan. 4, 33
Jan. 5, 78
Jan. 6, 74
Jan. 7, 148
Jan. 8, 82
Jan. 9, 74
Jan. 10, 82
Jan.11, 74
Jan. 12, 61
Jan. 13, 70
Jan. 14, 105
Jan. 15, 118
Jan. 16,   88

Some of the nursing homes in our county have been hit hard, sad.


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## mcdougy (Jan 16, 2021)

thewoodlands said:


> We have a population of just over 108,000 in our county, these are the new cases per day for January 2021.
> Jan. 1, 87
> Jan. 2, 121
> Jan. 3, 29,
> ...


Yes...nursing homes and anyone over 60 should be front of the line for a vaccine


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## mcdougy (Jan 16, 2021)

Our numbers would be similar but population is 380,000.


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## thewoodlands (Jan 16, 2021)

mcdougy said:


> Yes...nursing homes and anyone over 60 should be front of the line for a vaccine


I think the next age group that will get vaccinations in NY starts at 65 or 66, if they have the vaccines. That should start about the third week of January, I'm not in that group.

Down in Jefferson County NY, they were told they would have 600 vaccines so they scheduled people, the state sent 100 which pissed off a bunch of people. I'm not sure what happened but if the state didn't have them then someone screwed up on the state or county level.


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## mcdougy (Jan 16, 2021)

I hate covid


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## Sodbuster (Jan 19, 2021)

Medic21 said:


> Well, I transported a pt in a ventilator the other day that had Flu, Covid, and pneumonia.  The same combination I have seen in the sickest patients since last April.



My Father in law just died from complications of Covid. He was admitted to the hospital with sepsis, put on antibiotics and sent home a day later. A couple days later, he was back in the ER with more discomfort, fever, and nausea. He was admitted and put on IV Vancomycin  and Cefepime  plus one other drug I can't recall. They did a chest CT and found out he now had full blown pneumonia. The Dr.s also found a large pocket of infection around his spine of that they surgically drained. He was still COVID negative at this point. He continued to be hospitalized and then tested positive for Covid. I think the Covid was the final straw, for an already very sick man.


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## Medic21 (Jan 19, 2021)

Sodbuster said:


> My Father in law just died from complications of Covid. He was admitted to the hospital with sepsis, put on antibiotics and sent home a day later. A couple days later, he was back in the ER with more discomfort, fever, and nausea. He was admitted and put on IV Vancomycin  and Cefepime  plus one other drug I can't recall. They did a chest CT and found out he now had full blown pneumonia. The Dr.s also found a large pocket of infection around his spine of that they surgically drained. He was still COVID negative at this point. He continued to be hospitalized and then tested positive for Covid. I think the Covid was the final straw, for an already very sick man.


Sorry for your loss.


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## paulnlee (Jan 19, 2021)

Sorry for your loss but Covids fault


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## Medic21 (Jan 19, 2021)

paulnlee said:


> Sorry for your loss but Covids fault


If you understand comorbidity then yes.  The human body may be able to fight but, at some point everything together is too much.


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## mcdougy (Jan 19, 2021)

Wishing you and  your  family comfort as you remember you father in law.


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## kennyp2339 (Jan 19, 2021)

Both my elderly neighbors are in the hospital as we speak, the old man just suddenly went down the tubes the last three weeks, congestive heart failure and copd from chemical exposure when he was a young worker on a farm and then masonry. The wife was so worked up from her husband being sent to the hospital via ambulance then placed into IC unit that she suffered a stroke during the night while sleeping, she was already pretty frail to begin with. 
Its a bummer and I kind of feel like the hospitals right now are very dangerous places for them to be and praying that they manage to recover and make it back home to be in comfort.


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## begreen (Jan 20, 2021)

Sorry to hear of your FIL's passing Sodbuster. These are tough times for the elderly. 

Hope the news is a bit better for your family kenny.


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## peakbagger (Jan 21, 2021)

The number that hit me the other day was 1 in 820 in the US. That is the odds of dying of Covid. It obviously hits the older folks harder than the younger folks so the odds are worst the older one gets.


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## tlc1976 (Jan 23, 2021)

My daughter is 19 and physically fit and got it. She just goes from work to home but got it from her boyfriend’s mom. She had it kinda rough for 2 weeks, severe headaches daily, body aches, chest pains, so fatigued she could barely get out of bed the first week. Shortness of breath when she tried to do anything like laundry. The headaches lasted the longest. Her sense of smell and taste is still screwed up, food tastes like chemicals and outside air smells like fish.

My sister’s daughter is 20 and got it last year. She’s not a social butterfly either but got it from her boyfriend. But all she got was barely a sniffle, and temporary loss of smell.

They both live in the city, but the Covid is everywhere up here too. A few coworkers got it, one was in the hospital for a week after his mom died of it. That was around thanksgiving and he still has blood and heart issues and has to take breaks. He was healthy before, avid outdoorsman and never smoked.


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## bholler (Jan 23, 2021)

I am currently in quarantine.  Our employee who is a volunteer firefighter tested positive on wed.  After an exposure with a crash victim who they didn't know was positive till a few days later.  I got tested Thursday and that was negative but need retested 10 days after last possible exposure.


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## bholler (Jan 23, 2021)

In our county we just lost 2 firefighters and our towns police chief among others.  Current count of our customers is 9 dead.


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## SpaceBus (Jan 24, 2021)

bholler said:


> In our county we just lost 2 firefighters and our towns police chief among others.  Current count of our customers is 9 dead.


I'm sure nine customers is extremely noticeable. What a tragedy.


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## thewoodlands (Jan 25, 2021)




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## Sodbuster (Jan 31, 2021)

Medic21 said:


> Sorry for your loss.



Thank you for the kind words, like Medic said, he was already very sick, and the Covid just pushed him over the edge. He was confused, wanted to go home, was tearing his IV's out, his mind was gone. He would have been lucky to survive the Sepsis and Pneumonia, then COVID caught him and that was that. There's only so much a human body can take.


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## MEngineer24 (Jan 31, 2021)

Had Covid myself a few months back. It put me down for a couple days with flu like symptoms. The loss of taste and smell was very strange and that lasted about a week. It was taxing on me so I cant imagine it coupled with multiple illnesses. Strangest part of it though was my wife and kid didn't get it. I know lots of other families who have had one member sick and others never catch it. Very strange virus.


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## PaulOinMA (Jan 31, 2021)

Just watched American Experience: Influenza 1918, a PBS show from 1998.  Wow.

The numbers killed when the U.S. population was much lower than the current 330 million was staggering.

Think it is available online.  Worth watching.


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## MTY (Feb 2, 2021)

Some people's constitutions are amazing.  I have an employee.   He has worked at the store since 1956, and is 89.  He caught covid a few weeks ago.  His family insisted he go to the hospital.  They released him two days later, and once again he is bouncing around like a hyper active kid.  Life makes no sense.


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## kennyp2339 (Feb 2, 2021)

Both elderly neighbors are home, The man has been home since last week but under quarantine since he was in the Hospital, he's bouncing off the walls and I could see it nearly killed him to watch me through his glass storm door clean his driveway up and area during the snow, normally he's outside with me, his wife just came home from a rehab center, both need each other and its really good news that there home in there house of 60yrs.


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## Medic21 (Feb 2, 2021)

MTY said:


> Some people's constitutions are amazing.  I have an employee.   He has worked at the store since 1956, and is 89.  He caught covid a few weeks ago.  His family insisted he go to the hospital.  They released him two days later, and once again he is bouncing around like a hyper active kid.  Life makes no sense.


You just stated the one thing that will be studied for decades after this is over.  

I’ve seen it kill a healthy 21 year old college athlete and my 82 year old grandma that was a smoker for decades and has COPD was fine in two days.

There is no rhyme or reason to it.


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## Sodbuster (Feb 2, 2021)

Our daughter is a PICU nurse. during the first four years of it she caught almost every cold and sniffle that could be dished. out. Now that she's been at it a while her immune response is much stronger.


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## thewoodlands (Feb 4, 2021)

Sodbuster said:


> My Father in law just died from complications of Covid. He was admitted to the hospital with sepsis, put on antibiotics and sent home a day later. A couple days later, he was back in the ER with more discomfort, fever, and nausea. He was admitted and put on IV Vancomycin  and Cefepime  plus one other drug I can't recall. They did a chest CT and found out he now had full blown pneumonia. The Dr.s also found a large pocket of infection around his spine of that they surgically drained. He was still COVID negative at this point. He continued to be hospitalized and then tested positive for Covid. I think the Covid was the final straw, for an already very sick man.


Sorry for your loss @Sodbuster .


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## thewoodlands (Feb 4, 2021)

The last three or four days the cases have been coming down, NYS  opened up a vaccination site at Potsdam State which is being run pretty good.

They have been giving the Pfizer vaccine.


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## Sodbuster (Feb 4, 2021)

thewoodlands said:


> Sorry for your loss @Sodbuster .




Thank you


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## Sodbuster (Feb 5, 2021)

kennyp2339 said:


> I got the vaccine this morning, it was no big deal, signed a few forms, showed my id's and got the shot, waited 15min to make sure I didnt have a reaction and off I went. For those that get the flue shot, this was easier feeling, I did see on the news a few people getting shots and saw what looked like a heavy gauge needle and thought it would hurt more, I couldn't even tell by feeling when the needle was in me, second dose is in 4 weeks.



Which "brand" did you get? Pfizer, Moderna, or AstraZeneca? I understand that the vaccines that require a second dose can be a pisser.


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## kennyp2339 (Feb 5, 2021)

Sodbuster said:


> Which "brand" did you get? Pfizer, Moderna, or AstraZeneca? I understand that the vaccines that require a second dose can be a pisser.


Moderna, my second dose is tomorrow morning at 11:40, heard that the second shot might have more noticeable side effects, so after work today I'll do my regular food shopping, get some laundry done, bring in some firewood just incase I'm under the weather Saturday evening / Sunday, but all in all I'm not really to worried about it.


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## Sodbuster (Feb 5, 2021)

kennyp2339 said:


> Moderna, my second dose is tomorrow morning at 11:40, heard that the second shot might have more noticeable side effects, so after work today I'll do my regular food shopping, get some laundry done, bring in some firewood just incase I'm under the weather Saturday evening / Sunday, but all in all I'm not really to worried about it.



Please keep apprised of how it went and what side effects you had. I'm not eligible for mine until mid to late summer according to the news.


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## kennyp2339 (Feb 7, 2021)

Sodbuster said:


> Please keep apprised of how it went and what side effects you had. I'm not eligible for mine until mid to late summer according to the news.


Received my second shot yesterday at 11am, I asked the nurse if side effects where to be expected, she advised that depending on the type of immune system you have you may feel ill (like a "light flu") or nothing at all, but on my card there is a website to report side effects. 
Got the shot, waited the 15min and walked out the door, went about my day as usual, (took the machine and put the big snow bucket on it, moved snow around / make cat trails for my buddy) 
By 5pm I noticed more soreness in my shot area, by 7pm it felt like it was midnight to me (also might have been from being outside in the cold for 8hrs puttzing around) by 7:30 I was in bed and I think I fell asleep somewhere between 8 / 8:30.  During the night I def tossed and turned, I had a dream that I wasnt warm??? (possibly low grade fever) rolled onto my shoulder that I got the shot on and woke up, its nearly 5am, took my temp and I'm sitting at 99.8 with a slight headache (the kind you get one you have one to many beers, its there but its not there either) so I took some Advil with my coffee and now I'm making plans to hit the ski mountain at 8am, providing the slight fever comes down. 
This might sound off putting to some people and a reason why not to get the shot, to me the second dose is like a booster, and honestly having a few side effects is telling me that my body already made good immunity to the first dose and has the necessary recognizing tools to fight if I were to get a real exposure, the second dose re-affirms the first dose so your body doesnt accidently purge the whole thing, kind of like the hepatitis shots.


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## Sodbuster (Feb 7, 2021)

kennyp2339 said:


> Received my second shot yesterday at 11am, I asked the nurse if side effects where to be expected, she advised that depending on the type of immune system you have you may feel ill (like a "light flu") or nothing at all, but on my card there is a website to report side effects.
> Got the shot, waited the 15min and walked out the door, went about my day as usual, (took the machine and put the big snow bucket on it, moved snow around / make cat trails for my buddy)
> By 5pm I noticed more soreness in my shot area, by 7pm it felt like it was midnight to me (also might have been from being outside in the cold for 8hrs puttzing around) by 7:30 I was in bed and I think I fell asleep somewhere between 8 / 8:30.  During the night I def tossed and turned, I had a dream that I wasnt warm??? (possibly low grade fever) rolled onto my shoulder that I got the shot on and woke up, its nearly 5am, took my temp and I'm sitting at 99.8 with a slight headache (the kind you get one you have one to many beers, its there but its not there either) so I took some Advil with my coffee and now I'm making plans to hit the ski mountain at 8am, providing the slight fever comes down.
> This might sound off putting to some people and a reason why not to get the shot, to me the second dose is like a booster, and honestly having a few side effects is telling me that my body already made good immunity to the first dose and has the necessary recognizing tools to fight if I were to get a real exposure, the second dose re-affirms the first dose so your body doesnt accidently purge the whole thing, kind of like the hepatitis shots.



That doesn't sound too bad, not compared to getting covid.


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## Sodbuster (Feb 7, 2021)

Speaking of small business's our local Burger King went out of business, not that I went there,  under Dr's order to drop some weight, but the signs are down and everything.


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## tlc1976 (Feb 7, 2021)

Sodbuster said:


> Speaking of small business's our local Burger King went out of business, not that I went there,  under Dr's order to drop some weight, but the signs are down and everything.



Almost all the BKs in my area closed up last year. Was told the same guy owns all the franchises in the area and didn’t want to do the required renovations to renew the leases so he just closed them. Now McDonald’s is getting all their business and the line is out to the road every day.


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## kennyp2339 (Feb 7, 2021)

Sodbuster said:


> That doesn't sound too bad, not compared to getting covid.


Skiing was excellent this morning


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## mcdougy (Feb 7, 2021)

tlc1976 said:


> Almost all the BKs in my area closed up last year. Was told the same guy owns all the franchises in the area and didn’t want to do the required renovations to renew the leases so he just closed them. Now McDonald’s is getting all their business and the line is out to the road every day.


Any Tim Horton's opening instead?  I believe BK owns TH now


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## tlc1976 (Feb 7, 2021)

mcdougy said:


> Any Tim Horton's opening instead?  I believe BK owns TH now


Nope just empty buildings with signs removed.


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## firefighterjake (Feb 8, 2021)

tlc1976 said:


> Almost all the BKs in my area closed up last year. Was told the same guy owns all the franchises in the area and didn’t want to do the required renovations to renew the leases so he just closed them. Now McDonald’s is getting all their business and the line is out to the road every day.



Same here . . . guy owned several and only kept one open. Rumor had it the reason was the same as you mentioned . . . a need to do required renovations.


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## paulnlee (Feb 8, 2021)

So you all are worried about Covid but will go to BK and others for food  Can't make it up


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## tlc1976 (Feb 8, 2021)

paulnlee said:


> So you all are worried about Covid but will go to BK and others for food  Can't make it up



BK and others drive thru is safer than being indoors in a zoo of people in the grocery store.


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## SpaceBus (Feb 15, 2021)

The superspreaders behind top COVID-19 conspiracy theories
					

As the coronavirus spread across the globe, so too did speculation about its origins. Perhaps the virus escaped from a lab. Maybe it was engineered as a bioweapon. Legitimate questions about the virus created perfect conditions for conspiracy theories.




					apnews.com


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## begreen (Feb 19, 2021)

We'd best be prepared for a long fight. This virus is not done yet. 








						Exclusive: Two variants have merged into heavily mutated coronavirus
					

The UK and California variants of coronavirus appear to have combined into a heavily mutated hybrid, sparking concern that we may be entering a new phase of the covid-19 pandemic




					www.newscientist.com


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## Grizzerbear (Feb 19, 2021)

The wife and another nurse administered 300 shots today at the YMCA. They did 4 or 500 two weeks ago. The weather this last two weeks has really hindered progress but they are full steam ahead now that it has cleared up. She admittedly said it is boring and getting monotonous but she is glad folks are getting them.


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## begreen (Feb 19, 2021)

Grizzerbear said:


> The wife and another nurse administered 300 shots today at the YMCA. They did 4 or 500 two weeks ago. The weather this last two weeks has really hindered progress but they are full steam ahead now that it has cleared up. She admittedly said it is boring and getting monotonous but she is glad folks are getting them.


Please thank her for all of us. Her work is important and appreciated.


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## thewoodlands (Feb 22, 2021)

*New Covid Cases in February

Our County*​
*2/1/21 – 36
2/2 – 40
2/3 – 43
2/4 – 53
2/5 – 54
2/6 – 64
2/7 – 25
2/8 – 34
2/9 – 64
2/10 – 63
2/11 – 44
2/12 – 75
2/13 – 81
2/14 – 42
2/15 – 23
2/16 – 24
2/17 – 69
2/18 – 63
2/19 – 57
2/20 – 47
2/21 – 24
2/22 - 35
Hopefully the cases continue to drop. The NYS vaccination site in Potsdam NY is being run great and being used pretty good.*


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## begreen (Feb 24, 2021)

We are seeing a notable decline in February as well. There is a way to go, but with amped-up vaccinations, we hope to see this trend continue.


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## peakbagger (Feb 24, 2021)

In NH, its hitting the big colleges, mostly off campus students. Most are asymptomatic, but they spread it into the local population. The big change is the nursing homes are mostly immunized and their residents are no longer flooding the hospital system.  The numbers  definitely are dropping, hospitals critical care units have lot lower population.

The big issue is now the impact of spring break superpreaders bringing in the different  strains back into the area.


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## thewoodlands (Feb 24, 2021)

We had 36 today, hopefully the cases keep falling.

We have four colleges within about 20 miles of us, over in Canton NY they've held down the cases, one college is private and the other is a state run college.

In Potsdam NY, the private college went to remote learning and  it paused sports because of an outbreak of cases and the state run school did the same for a time.


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## begreen (Feb 26, 2021)

Got the second Pfizer shot on Wed. No real side effects other than a slightly sore arm yesterday but not noticeable today. The nurse that checked on us said that younger people seem to have more noticeable immune reactions, though my son didn't have a whole lot either. It's an individual thing. She also said that it would take 2-3 weeks to build up to full immunity.


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## tlc1976 (Feb 26, 2021)

I’ve been wondering if the people who had strong reactions to the shot are the ones who would have gotten very sick or died had they got Covid first.


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## thewoodlands (Mar 1, 2021)

My last update on Covid cases stopped on 2/22/21.

2/23 - 50
2/24 - 36
2/25 - 86
2/26 - 42
2/27 - 42
2/28 - 22


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## Sodbuster (Mar 5, 2021)

paulnlee said:


> So you all are worried about Covid but will go to BK and others for food  Can't make it up



 I never went there, I don't eat fast food. My point was mainly to note that they went out of business, and that peoples jobs were lost.


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## thewoodlands (Mar 8, 2021)

Our cases per day are starting to drop, these are for the month of March.
3/1 - 36
3/2 - 39
3/3 - 32
3/4 - 22
3/5 - 37
3/6 - 24
3/7 - 26
3/8 - 10


----------



## johneh (Mar 21, 2021)

Just something Canadian to lighten the mood


----------



## thewoodlands (May 18, 2021)

New cases this month.
5/1 - 9
5/2 - 8
5/3 - 7
5/4 - 11
5/5 - 10
5/6 - 8
5/7 - 6
5/8 - ?
5/9 - ?
5/10 - 34
5/11 - 14
5/12 - 16
5/13 - 14
5/14 - 19
5/15 - 10
5/16 - 10
5/17 - 5

We'll see if the Covid cases jump up again this fall. Last year at this time, the new daily cases dropped off big time even without people getting vaccinated.


----------



## clancey (May 19, 2021)

Really enjoyed your video and yes it made the mood lighter..thanks..clancey


----------



## thewoodlands (May 27, 2021)

We're down to single digits pretty much everyday except last weekend when we had  11 each day.


----------



## tlc1976 (May 28, 2021)

Michigan new daily cases finally dropped below 1000 a few days ago.


----------



## begreen (May 28, 2021)

tlc1976 said:


> Michigan new daily cases finally dropped below 1000 a few days ago.


WA state is fluctuating above and below that line right now. I'm a bit concerned as travel increases. A cruise ship can dump thousands into Seattle at one time.


----------



## tlc1976 (May 29, 2021)

begreen said:


> WA state is fluctuating above and below that line right now. I'm a bit concerned as travel increases. A cruise ship can dump thousands into Seattle at one time.



Same here, this weekend is the unofficial start of summer and it’s a heavy tourist area. Mother Nature doesn’t seem to agree, it’s been in the 30s and 40s all week with bitter winds off the lake.


----------



## mcdougy (May 29, 2021)

We are still in another complete lockdown....most storefronts are closed with curbside only....had to cut my own hair Again. Barbers have been closed for the last 8 weeks or so.....the story keeps changing on the requirements to "reopen"....,not sure when the land border crossing scenario will resume to normal yet. Our province numbers are right around 1000 daily currently....they were over 3000 daily a month or so ago.


----------



## begreen (May 29, 2021)

mcdougy said:


> We are still in another complete lockdown....most storefronts are closed with curbside only....had to cut my own hair Again. Barbers have been closed for the last 8 weeks or so.....the story keeps changing on the requirements to "reopen"....,not sure when the land border crossing scenario will resume to normal yet. Our province numbers are right around 1000 daily currently....they were over 3000 daily a month or so ago.


What is the vaccination scenario there?


----------



## mcdougy (May 29, 2021)

begreen said:


> What is the vaccination scenario there?


https://beta.ctvnews.ca/national/coronavirus/2021/5/27/1_5444007.html
Not a very good job at procuring vaccines early....canada has no labs that are producing vaccine and that has hindered the effort significantly.  There is a large project underway to build a massive lab to produce vaccines for the country in Quebec.


----------



## paulnlee (May 30, 2021)

Questions. NJ lifted the mask mandate indoors for those vaccinated. #1 how do they know? #2 if you're now vaccinated what difference does it make if I, no jab, do not wear the muzzle?


----------



## begreen (May 30, 2021)

That is a question circulating around the country.  Most here continue to wear masks indoors. How does one trust a people cooperating and using common sense, especially after seeing people filling plastic shopping bags with gasoline a couple of weeks ago? Without a doubt, there are people that don't understand science or don't care about others. When in doubt, cover up.


----------



## tlc1976 (May 30, 2021)

paulnlee said:


> Questions. NJ lifted the mask mandate indoors for those vaccinated. #1 how do they know? #2 if you're now vaccinated what difference does it make if I, no jab, do not wear the muzzle?



I keep the mask same as before. At least for the people I know, 9 times out of 10 the ones who refuse to mask are the same ones who refuse to vaccinate. Besides, with all the variants developing, there could be one that evades the vaccine. Also it’s been nice not getting flu or seasonal allergies.


----------



## paulnlee (May 31, 2021)

Still no answer, especially to #2


----------



## begreen (May 31, 2021)

#2, One can be a carrier and asymptomatic. That helps the disease spread. The way this disease is going to be defeated is by getting enough of the population immune so that it only pops up in pockets and can not spread beyond that pocket. Think of it like a wildfire.  So it matters a lot that one is not vaccinated and can be a spreader without knowing it. This is not different from other vaccination programs.  The only change is that this one has been politicized, to the detriment of society.


----------



## johneh (May 31, 2021)

I'm not fond of masks but I wear one 
I don't wear it for me but I do wear it for the greater good


----------



## Woodsplitter67 (May 31, 2021)

paulnlee said:


> Still no answer, especially to #2


I am.south of you..they lifted the mask mandate, but that being said,I still see every one wearing their mask, my family included.  My county only had 12 cases yesterday. I think that many people have changed how they are going things. We have in our house. We went out to eat Saturday.. we ordered our meal and ate in the car. We stay away from the shore or the really crowded areas.. or if we do go somewhere.. we will do the least busy times..


----------



## bholler (Jun 10, 2021)

paulnlee said:


> Questions. NJ lifted the mask mandate indoors for those vaccinated. #1 how do they know? #2 if you're now vaccinated what difference does it make if I, no jab, do not wear the muzzle?


Because the more the virus is spread around the more likely it is to mutate.  The more variations out there the more likely the vaccine will not be effective against one.   We are vaccinated but still wear masks and our kids are not vaccinated because they aren't able to be yet.  So if you were to contaminate me I could bring it home or out to the car to them.


----------



## vinny11950 (Jun 24, 2021)

The Delta variant almost guarantees we will be dealing with Covid well into the fall and winter, maybe seeing another spike in unvaccinated people.   This variant is highly contagious, and in Israel, a country with high vaccination rates, the health ministry is estimating the Delta variant is infecting vaccinated people too.  Ugh.

Delta plus Covid variant: Here's what you need to know (cnbc.com)


----------



## begreen (Jun 24, 2021)

vinny11950 said:


> The Delta variant almost guarantees we will be dealing with Covid well into the fall and winter, maybe seeing another spike in unvaccinated people.   This variant is highly contagious, and in Israel, a country with high vaccination rates, the health ministry is estimating the Delta variant is infecting vaccinated people too.  Ugh.
> 
> Delta plus Covid variant: Here's what you need to know (cnbc.com)


Unfortunately, there are states where the Delta variant is going to run rampant due to low vaccination rates. That will give it the opportunity to mutate. The sad thing is that it affects young people more. We are not done with this beast.


----------



## paulnlee (Jun 24, 2021)

Maybe they'll do like they do with the flu every year since forever. Another jab


----------



## begreen (Jun 24, 2021)

It seems likely though that does not help the unvaccinated.








						The Delta Variant Is a Grave Danger to the Unvaccinated
					

One half of America is protected. The other is approaching a perilous moment in the pandemic.




					www.newyorker.com
				












						Nearly all COVID deaths in US are now among unvaccinated
					

Nearly all COVID-19 deaths in the U.S. now are in people who weren’t vaccinated, a staggering demonstration of how effective the shots have been and an indication that deaths per day — now down to under 300 — could be practically zero if everyone eligible got the vaccine.




					apnews.com


----------



## peakbagger (Jul 6, 2021)

Sad to say I am starting to think of folks who are intentionally avoiding vaccination as Darwin Award Candidates .  No matter how well intentioned, they are risking themselves and those who can not be vaccinated.  There is an obvious political component to this but virus's do not vote, they are equal opportunity killers.


----------



## johneh (Jul 6, 2021)

My eldest is refusing the shot. Because of that, his mother has banned
 him from family gatherings. Every time I see him all I want to do is grab
 a 2x4 and wack him up the side of the head. Maybe knock some sense in to him
He says he is afraid of what it (vaccine) might do to him in 10/20 years.
We are afraid of what might (or will) happen in the next year. No parent 
wants to bury their child !!


----------



## festerw (Jul 6, 2021)

johneh said:


> My eldest is refusing the shot. Because of that, his mother has banned
> him from family gatherings. Every time I see him all I want to do is grab
> a 2x4 and wack him up the side of the head. Maybe knock some sense in to him
> He says he is afraid of what it (vaccine) might do to him in 10/20 years.
> ...



I've heard that same argument from people who then go and smoke a cigarette, or a vape pen, or drink soda, or eat fried food, etc.

Like you do all that stuff and there's well documented problems associated with those things but a vaccine is where you all the sudden draw the line because it's (in your mind) unsafe?


----------



## begreen (Jul 6, 2021)

LOL, yes people eat hot dogs and at McDonalds, but are suddenly concerned about what is in the vaccine?


----------



## ABMax24 (Jul 6, 2021)

It has nothing to do with those things, since when is it an acceptable part of conversation to ask about my medical history?

I have no issue taking the vaccine, but I do have issue with someone in my face telling me thirty reasons why I should.

The funny thing is in Canada a lot of the people that pushed for the legalization of marijuana because "my body, my choice" are some of the most fervent advocators of forced vaccination.


----------



## SpaceBus (Jul 6, 2021)

I will not be surprised if the future variants make the vaccine ineffective. Then there will have to be a new vaccine, which requires more testing, etc. I don't think global bureaucracies can keep ahead of the virus.


----------



## tlc1976 (Jul 6, 2021)

Over half the engineering department where I work is anti mask and anti vax. Between that and posting political stuff all over the office. Even after watching one of our shop guys get seriously hospitalized for it for over a week. Took him months to feel close to normal again.

I don’t wish for anyone to die, but I kinda hope the new variant knocks one of them down enough to change their mind.


----------



## peakbagger (Jul 6, 2021)

My condolences for you having to deal with that. I have been remote for 15 years and plan to retire long before I have to ever go back to an office and deal with that crap. No doubt when they get sick, they will be ones complaining that the health care system is all backed up.


----------



## vinny11950 (Jul 6, 2021)

tlc1976 said:


> Over half the engineering department where I work is anti mask and anti vax. Between that and posting political stuff all over the office. Even after watching one of our shop guys get seriously hospitalized for it for over a week. Took him months to feel close to normal again.
> 
> I don’t wish for anyone to die, but I kinda hope the new variant knocks one of them down enough to change their mind.



By now, people who don't want to take the vaccine are pretty much set in their position and even if they see an acquaintance get covid, it is not going to change their mind.  I think one of the main reasons is a big part of the population are more open to risk than the rest.  They look at the odds of really getting sick and it is something they are comfortable with.  I have a friend who doesn't want to get vaccinated because "he never" gets sick.  Another is only into natural medicine.  It's hard to argue against those reasons when it has worked for them all this time.  So I don't even try to convince them to get the vaccine.


----------



## begreen (Jul 7, 2021)

As expected, Missouri is now having a delta variant spike and the hospitals are at capacity. This is in a state where the governor refuses to require masks. The expectation is that Alabama, Arkansas, Louisiana, and Wyoming will see the next wave. 








						Delta variant slams Missouri as ICUs fill and ventilators run low
					

Cases and hospitalizations surge amid the low vaccination rates and the spread of delta.




					arstechnica.com


----------



## mcdougy (Jul 7, 2021)

It's official in the province of Ontario,that a employee refusing to get a vaccine is automatic dismissal if so desired by the employer. It was a pri ate members bill passed quietly during the chaos. Steep fines can be placed by the government to a employer that doesn't do anything to enforce  vaccination 





__





						'They could be fired': Employees may need to show proof of vaccination as workplaces reopen
					

As Ontario inches toward its economic reopening and employers prepare to recall their workers, labour lawyers are warning that in some cases employees may need to be vaccinated to hold onto their jobs.




					beta.ctvnews.ca


----------



## stoveliker (Jul 8, 2021)

SpaceBus said:


> I will not be surprised if the future variants make the vaccine ineffective. Then there will have to be a new vaccine, which requires more testing, etc. I don't think global bureaucracies can keep ahead of the virus.



If it's knocked down enough I see no reason why that can't happen just as it is for the flu vaccines where every year there is a new one that is fairly accurate on what variants it protects against?

But with too many people refusing the vaccine this may not be reached....


----------



## vinny11950 (Jul 8, 2021)

I still wear my mask when I go shopping even though I am vaccinated.  Part of it is the small risk of still getting covid and the other part is a child in my family who is not yet vaccinated so we don't want to expose him.  I would hate to be the one who gave him covid.


----------



## SpaceBus (Jul 23, 2021)

Anyone else seeing their states' covid numbers spiraling out of control? Even here in the most northeastern part of the US we are having a "surge". It doesn't look the same as it would in a city, but the case rate doubled here in the last week. It's almost triple what it was two weeks ago.


----------



## bholler (Jul 23, 2021)

SpaceBus said:


> Anyone else seeing their states' covid numbers spiraling out of control? Even here in the most northeastern part of the US we are having a "surge". It doesn't look the same as it would in a city, but the case rate doubled here in the last week. It's almost triple what it was two weeks ago.


Ours are going but but not crazy.   Over all PAs vaccination rates are fairly high.   But our friend who is an intensive care RN says they are seeing a few cases in vaccinated people


----------



## begreen (Jul 23, 2021)

bholler said:


> Ours are going but but not crazy.   Over all PAs vaccination rates are fairly high.   But our friend who is an intensive care RN says they are seeing a few cases in vaccinated people


The vaccines are about 95% effective with the two shot Moderna and Pfizer vaccines, but that still leaves about 5% that will get infected, albeit most not as seriously. However, 5% of a town of 10,000 is still 500 people.


----------



## stoveliker (Jul 23, 2021)

begreen said:


> The vaccines are about 95% effective with the two shot Moderna and Pfizer vaccines, but that still leaves about 5% that will get infected, albeit most not as seriously. However, 5% of a town of 10,000 is still 500 people.



Yes, but one should take 5% of "those exposed".

And given the universal prevention of serious symptoms for vaccinated people (hospital care seems not needed), it may be best to track hospital admissions as a number for how bad the situation is, rather than total infections?


----------



## begreen (Jul 23, 2021)

SpaceBus said:


> Anyone else seeing their states' covid numbers spiraling out of control? Even here in the most northeastern part of the US we are having a "surge". It doesn't look the same as it would in a city, but the case rate doubled here in the last week. It's almost triple what it was two weeks ago.


The delta variant is much more contagious. Watching it spread is pretty much as predicted. This is hard on medical people. It's like knowing an avoidable train wreck is going to occur and then watching it happen. This time it is infecting a lot more people in the 20, 30 and 40 yr old ranges.   States with relatively low vaccination rates are getting hit the hardest. 40% of the cases are in FL, AK, MO and NV. One in 5 cases in the country are now in Florida.


----------



## begreen (Jul 23, 2021)

stoveliker said:


> Yes, but one should take 5% of "those exposed".
> 
> And given the universal prevention of serious symptoms for vaccinated people (hospital care seems not needed), it may be best to track hospital admissions as a number for how bad the situation is, rather than total infections?


Yes, that is the telling metric. Even some reinfection cases have been totally mild.


----------



## SpaceBus (Jul 23, 2021)

The vaccine is like a seatbelt, not something I want to test personally. I'm going to stay away from people and mask for the foreseeable future while everyone else keeps testing their seatbelts.


----------



## vinny11950 (Jul 30, 2021)

As fast as it spreads and mutates now, Covid is going to be like the flu.  It will come in waves at different times.  Some waves will be not that bad, some will be worse than others.  Now that the Delta variant infects vaccinated people and people who have had covid before too, containment and herd immunity is out the window.  Now the vaccine is good for keeping you from getting the worst symptoms of covid when you catch it.  Sad.

Foreign Affairs magazine has an article on it, if you have subscription.

A Strategy for the Long Fight Against COVID-19 | Foreign Affairs


----------



## begreen (Jul 30, 2021)

All the variants can infect some people even if vaccinated. The vaccines are only 90-95% effective. That still leaves 5 out of 100 that are vulnerable to infection. The good news is that the vaccine is exceptionally effective at keeping people out of the hospital. A local, young vaccinated veterinary assistant just got Covid. She thought she just had a mild cold, but they test regularly at the clinic and found it. The difference with the delta variant is that it is MUCH more contagious and is affecting a younger demographic the most.  Testing goes on for the booster shot. Early results from Pfizer look promising. Like the flu we may need to get annual boosters until the disease dies down or a novel approach is perfected.








						Why The Delta Variant Is Hyper-Contagious: A New Study Sheds Light
					

New research from China suggests people infected with the delta variant have, on average, about 1,000 times more virus in their respiratory tracts than those infected with the original strain.




					www.npr.org
				




We are at a strange juncture. The anti-vaxers have become the control group.


----------



## thewoodlands (Aug 9, 2021)

Last summer we hardly had any cases but they're on the rise here in our county this summer.





__





						60 COVID cases reported in St. Lawrence County in last three days | NorthCountryNow
					






					www.northcountrynow.com


----------



## begreen (Aug 9, 2021)

Same here, particularly in Latino communities that make up the majority of the farm workers in the state.


----------



## thewoodlands (Aug 9, 2021)

begreen said:


> Same here, particularly in Latino communities that make up the majority of the farm workers in the state.


We have four colleges not far from us, when they come back, the cases should go up even more. It's looks like it will be another long winter Covid wise.


----------



## stoveliker (Aug 9, 2021)

Yes, unless colleges mandate vaccinations for on campus presence.

I hope the (justified) approval for vaccination of 2-12 year olds comes soon; with the more contagious delta variant and the (here) parental push for no-mask in-classroom education, I'm concerned about my kids when they go back to school...


----------



## bholler (Aug 9, 2021)

stoveliker said:


> Yes, unless colleges mandate vaccinations for on campus presence.
> 
> I hope the (justified) approval for vaccination of 2-12 year olds comes soon; with the more contagious delta variant and the (here) parental push for no-mask in-classroom education, I'm concerned about my kids when they go back to school...


I agree completely


----------



## begreen (Aug 9, 2021)

This is extra tough for parents with kids in school and their teachers too. Most old farts can wait it out at home but that is not an option for many working couples with children.


----------



## tlc1976 (Aug 9, 2021)

begreen said:


> This is extra tough for parents with kids in school and their teachers too. Most old farts can wait it out at home but that is not an option for many working couples with children.


I’m eternally thankful and lucky that my kid graduated in 2019 and I don’t have to keep running her back and forth to the city.


----------



## ABMax24 (Aug 9, 2021)

We are now fully open, no restrictions of any kind, as of August 31 testing for Covid will end except for those being hospitalized.

I'm not sure closing testing the symptomatic persons was the best plan, but I'm glad life is back to normal.


----------



## SpaceBus (Aug 10, 2021)

ABMax24 said:


> We are now fully open, no restrictions of any kind, as of August 31 testing for Covid will end except for those being hospitalized.
> 
> I'm not sure closing testing the symptomatic persons was the best plan, but I'm glad life is back to normal.



This happened in the US and now hospitals are filling up. Good luck!


----------



## semipro (Aug 10, 2021)

begreen said:


> This is extra tough for parents with kids in school and their teachers too.


Most grade school classrooms are big Petri dishes.  
It's an environment where it's hard enough to keep kids' hands out of their noses and pants and away from others. 
Yeah, my wife is a teacher.
If COVID-19 evolves into something that impacts the young in full force, schools will be a battlefield.  
Yet, the anti-maskers are out in full force at school board meetings, yelling, using force, willing to put their children, other children, and teachers at increased risk, and for what?
I fully understand and support the idea of strengthening immunity through limited exposure to pathogens - that's pretty much what a vaccine does.  
What I don't understand are those willing to put others a risk in doing so.  
Your rights shouldn't allow you to endanger others.


----------



## stoveliker (Aug 10, 2021)

This is simply a symbolic issue now, nothing to do with opinions about the utility of masks. I asked my kids what they think about masks in school. They said "why? I prefer no mask but it's not a big deal."

In fact when they come home (from anything), I often have to tell them that they can take their masks off. Half an hour after they are back at home... (!!) Indeed they have adapted and it's evidently not a big deal to them...


----------



## Medic21 (Aug 10, 2021)

SpaceBus said:


> This happened in the US and now hospitals are filling up. Good luck!


They are filling up but, the admissions are unvaccinated individuals.


----------



## peakbagger (Aug 10, 2021)

Kids are incredibly adaptable, their parents are far less so.


----------



## SpaceBus (Aug 10, 2021)

Medic21 said:


> They are filling up but, the admissions are unvaccinated individuals.


The number of vaccinated hospitalizations are increasing. There is clearly a problem.


----------



## Medic21 (Aug 10, 2021)

SpaceBus said:


> The number of vaccinated hospitalizations are increasing. There is clearly a problem.











						COVID-19 Vaccine Breakthrough Cases: Data from the States
					

We reviewed the websites and other official state sources for all 50 states and D.C. to see which are providing data on COVID-19 breakthrough cases, hospitalizations and deaths, how regularly, and …




					www.kff.org
				







The raw data says otherwise.


----------



## SpaceBus (Aug 10, 2021)

Medic21 said:


> COVID-19 Vaccine Breakthrough Cases: Data from the States
> 
> 
> We reviewed the websites and other official state sources for all 50 states and D.C. to see which are providing data on COVID-19 breakthrough cases, hospitalizations and deaths, how regularly, and …
> ...


Here's some raw data that says otherwise: https://www.nbcboston.com/news/coro...-people-have-died-from-covid-in-mass/2463080/

Here is some data: https://www.statesmanjournal.com/st...rows-lower-rate-than-unvaccinated/5507123001/

Breakthrough cases that result in hospitalizations are increasing. Say what you want, things are getting worse for everyone, not just unvaccinated people.


----------



## begreen (Aug 10, 2021)

Medic21 said:


> They are filling up but, the admissions are unvaccinated individuals.


And most under 35 yrs old. The alarming thing is watching pediatric wards filling up with children under 5. This is a national tragedy.


----------



## Medic21 (Aug 10, 2021)

SpaceBus said:


> Here's some raw data that says otherwise: https://www.nbcboston.com/news/coro...-people-have-died-from-covid-in-mass/2463080/
> 
> Here is some data: https://www.statesmanjournal.com/st...rows-lower-rate-than-unvaccinated/5507123001/
> 
> Breakthrough cases that result in hospitalizations are increasing. Say what you want, things are getting worse for everyone, not just unvaccinated people.


MASS is a .0002% and OR is a .0016% and around 7% of the breakthrough cases are hospitalized.  Combine that with the average age of death at 82 and life expectancy is 78 in the US.  

those articles equal the other one on breakthrough cases, still an extremely low percentage and I never saw anything that said this wasn’t expected from the beginning of the vaccination process.

it’s working as designed and keeping almost all out of the hospital.


----------



## Medic21 (Aug 10, 2021)

begreen said:


> And most under 35 yrs old. The alarming thing is watching pediatric wards filling up with children under 5. This is a national tragedy.


This is their choice.  We can’t dictate and shouldn’t mandate anything in this country like this.


----------



## SpaceBus (Aug 10, 2021)

Amazing to see even EMS pax in denial.


----------



## begreen (Aug 10, 2021)

SpaceBus said:


> Here's some raw data that says otherwise: https://www.nbcboston.com/news/coro...-people-have-died-from-covid-in-mass/2463080/
> 
> Here is some data: https://www.statesmanjournal.com/st...rows-lower-rate-than-unvaccinated/5507123001/
> 
> Breakthrough cases that result in hospitalizations are increasing. Say what you want, things are getting worse for everyone, not just unvaccinated people.


With a breakthrough rate of .002% being reported, the Boston article confirms how well the vaccines are protecting people.
_"In about three-quarter of the breakthrough cases, the patients reported having underlying conditions, the department said. The median age of those who died was 82.5 years.
The deaths represent a tiny fraction -- about 0.002 percent -- of all fully vaccinated individuals in the state, according to state health officials."_

I found the Oregon article to be a bit frustrating due to incomplete information. For example, of the 4 deaths reported it doesn't say if they were vaccinated or not. And for the new breakthrough cases being reported, what vaccine did they get? Did they get both shots if Moderna or Pfizer? And what percentage is this of the whole population, what demographic?


----------



## begreen (Aug 10, 2021)

Medic21 said:


> This is their choice.  We can’t dictate and shouldn’t mandate anything in this country like this.


Not their choice, often the kids don't have any say in this. In other situations, there is history behind the reticence to get vaccinated that has to be overcome. Many Latinos and people of color have an understandable and somewhat justified distrust of US govt-led programs.


----------



## Medic21 (Aug 10, 2021)

SpaceBus said:


> Amazing to see even EMS pax in denial.


I’m in denial off nothing.  It’s a virus.  One like we’ve never dealt with.  All we have done is prolong it with all of the shut downs, masks, etc.  all I’ve ever heard here from the beginning is how I’m wrong and irresponsible.  Going to the gym and taking care of myself during the worst of it.  Must have worked because I have antibodies and was never sick.  I’ve probably had more exposures than 100 of you combined and my wife more and she’s negative for antibodies.  Now we are seeing that the vaccine works first hand, at a higher rate than initially thought.  

everyone has become an expert and most don’t know their head from their ass.  Shut off the talk shows and politicians and block out all the noise.  Love your life how you think you should and go on.


----------



## bholler (Aug 10, 2021)

Medic21 said:


> I’m in denial off nothing.  It’s a virus.  One like we’ve never dealt with.  All we have done is prolong it with all of the shut downs, masks, etc.  all I’ve ever heard here from the beginning is how I’m wrong and irresponsible.  Going to the gym and taking care of myself during the worst of it.  Must have worked because I have antibodies and was never sick.  I’ve probably had more exposures than 100 of you combined and my wife more and she’s negative for antibodies.  Now we are seeing that the vaccine works first hand, at a higher rate than initially thought.
> 
> everyone has become an expert and most don’t know their head from their ass.  Shut off the talk shows and politicians and block out all the noise.  Love your life how you think you should and go on.


I am curious how the shut downs prolonged the virus in your mind.


----------



## Medic21 (Aug 10, 2021)

bholler said:


> I am curious how the shut downs prolonged the virus in your mind.


Seeing how the virus wasn’t stopped and is still active.  It’s like staying in a bunker with a sniper waiting to get you.  10 days later the sniper is still there, he wasn’t stopped.


----------



## bholler (Aug 10, 2021)

Medic21 said:


> Seeing how the virus wasn’t stopped and is still active.  It’s like staying in a bunker with a sniper waiting to get you.  10 days later the sniper is still there, he wasn’t stopped.


Ok but how did they prolong it?


----------



## bholler (Aug 10, 2021)

The way I see it the lockdowns kept more people safe untill the vaccines could be developed and administered.     Of course just locking down will do nothing


----------



## bholler (Aug 10, 2021)

Medic21 said:


> I’m in denial off nothing.  It’s a virus.  One like we’ve never dealt with.  All we have done is prolong it with all of the shut downs, masks, etc.  all I’ve ever heard here from the beginning is how I’m wrong and irresponsible.  Going to the gym and taking care of myself during the worst of it.  Must have worked because I have antibodies and was never sick.  I’ve probably had more exposures than 100 of you combined and my wife more and she’s negative for antibodies.  Now we are seeing that the vaccine works first hand, at a higher rate than initially thought.
> 
> everyone has become an expert and most don’t know their head from their ass.  Shut off the talk shows and politicians and block out all the noise.  Love your life how you think you should and go on.


Also you say you have antibodies but never had symptoms.   How many people do you think you could have infected while you were an asymptomatic carrier?  Did they all do as well as you?


----------



## clancey (Aug 10, 2021)

I do not think anybody should mandate anything especially masking young children as well as giving people who had the virus their right to not vaccinate if they wish not too..There is a lot of literature out there that a lot of you would never read because you label it and everything that's against your thinking a conspiracy theory...I and people like me have a voice too..My brother got the vaccine and in two days he was in the hospital with breathing and heart problems---that he never had before...in three weeks on a ventilator and when they took him off of it--he died..He was almost 77 years old..He died April 2nd 2021..Right after he got the vaccine...Give people the freedom to choose and stop denigrating their decisions because there is a lot of lies out there and its not wonder people do not trust with all the bs fauci has said as well as the cdc...If I had kids in school I would find a way to home school them or maybe send them to a private school or maybe get together with a block effort in the neighborhood and try to hire professional teachers to teach the young one...until that stupid mask mandate is over with as well as forcing people to get the vaccine against their wishes and why not give natural immunity a chance but now too much of the vaccine is already given and other people are getting it from them as they have their break out cases...clancey


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## bholler (Aug 10, 2021)

clancey said:


> I do not think anybody should mandate anything especially masking young children as well as giving people who had the virus their right to not vaccinate if they wish not too..There is a lot of literature out there that a lot of you would never read because you label it and everything that's against your thinking a conspiracy theory...I and people like me have a voice too..My brother got the vaccine and in two days he was in the hospital with breathing and heart problems---that he never had before...in three weeks on a ventilator and when they took him off of it--he died..He was almost 77 years old..He died April 2nd 2021..Right after he got the vaccine...Give people the freedom to choose and stop denigrating their decisions because there is a lot of lies out there and its not wonder people do not trust with all the bs fauci has said as well as the cdc...If I had kids in school I would find a way to home school them or maybe send them to a private school or maybe get together with a block effort in the neighborhood and try to hire professional teachers to teach the young one...until that stupid mask mandate is over with as well as forcing people to get the vaccine against their wishes and why not give natural immunity a chance but now too much of the vaccine is already given and other people are getting it from them as they have their break out cases...clancey


We gave natural herd immunity a chance and it cost 617000 Americans their lives.   And roughly 4.3 million world wide.  

What is so horrible about masks?  I still wear one every day my kids have no problem at all wearing them.  I don't see the problem.  

   The fact is the percentage of people who have died from the vaccine is . 0018%.  So while a truley am deeply sorry about your brother the risks from the vaccine are extremely low.    And what do you think would have happened if he had gotten covid?


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## bholler (Aug 10, 2021)

As far as labeling thing conspiracy theories.  If there is no actual evidence to support the claims what would you call it?


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## Medic21 (Aug 10, 2021)

bholler said:


> Also you say you have antibodies but never had symptoms.   How many people do you think you could have infected while you were an asymptomatic carrier?  Did they all do as well as you?


I would have stayed home and quarantined, collecting the extra unemployment, in a heartbeat.  Hell I’d still be doing it living off the governments teet if I could have.  Maybe all healthcare workers should have gotten tested everyday before work.  I tested positive for antibodies when the test was released a year ago May.  That was before the PCR tests were made readily available for all people that wanted them.  

And, frankly, as I didn’t even know I had it, or maybe it’s a false positive, I could care less but, none of the coworkers I was with got it from me and we shared a living quarters for 24hrs at a time.

That’s such a tired argument and subject anymore.  It’s been 18 months you need new material.


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## Medic21 (Aug 10, 2021)

bholler said:


> We gave natural herd immunity a chance and it cost 617000 Americans their lives.   And roughly 4.3 million world wide.
> 
> What is so horrible about masks?  I still wear one every day my kids have no problem at all wearing them.  I don't see the problem.
> 
> I hear just about every anti vax person I talk to say they had a relative or friend who died from the vaccine.   The fact is the percentage of people who have died from the vaccine is . 0018%  so I really have to question how many of those people are being truthful.  If that really did happen to your brother I am deeply sorry.  But what do you think would have happened if he had gotten covid?


617k died with Covid, not necessarily from Covid. Just because they tested positive at death does not mean their heart attack, stroke, traumatic injury, etc was a direct result of Covid.  The death number ONLY represents those that had Covid at death.  Before you say it I understand comorbid processes.  It’s no different than the person that has a bad heart that dies of trauma that a healthy person would have survived.  They are listed in the traumatic death category.  

There are no real numbers other than the positivity rate.


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## bholler (Aug 10, 2021)

Medic21 said:


> I would have stayed home and quarantined, collecting the extra unemployment, in a heartbeat.  Hell I’d still be doing it living off the governments teet if I could have.  Maybe all healthcare workers should have gotten tested everyday before work.  I tested positive for antibodies when the test was released a year ago May.  That was before the PCR tests were made readily available for all people that wanted them.
> 
> And, frankly, as I didn’t even know I had it, or maybe it’s a false positive, I could care less but, none of the coworkers I was with got it from me and we shared a living quarters for 24hrs at a time.
> 
> That’s such a tired argument and subject anymore.  It’s been 18 months you need new material.


You mean relying on the proven scientific fact that asymptomatic carriers can spread the virus is a tired argument??  Can you elaborate a bit more?

I still haven't heard any explanation of how lockdowns extended the virus.  

And just for the record I worked the whole time as well other than a quarantine period when our employee got covid.  



Medic21 said:


> 617k died with Covid, not necessarily from Covid. Just because they tested positive at death does not mean their heart attack, stroke, traumatic injury, etc was a direct result of Covid.  The death number ONLY represents those that had Covid at death.  Before you say it I understand comorbid processes.  It’s no different than the person that has a bad heart that dies of trauma that a healthy person would have survived.  They are listed in the traumatic death category.
> 
> There are no real numbers other than the positivity rate.


The numbers are based upon the cause of death listed on the death certificate.  Just because a deceased person tested positive does not mean that was listed as cause of death.   That’s such a tired argument and subject anymore.  It’s been 18 months you need new material.


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## Medic21 (Aug 10, 2021)

bholler said:


> You mean relying on the proven scientific fact that asymptomatic carriers can spread the virus is a tired argument??  Can you elaborate a bit more?
> 
> I still haven't heard any explanation of how lockdowns extended the virus.
> 
> ...


It’s been, from the beginning, counted in the Covid number whether it was the cause or considered a contributing cause.  All positive cases are in that number.


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## Medic21 (Aug 10, 2021)

bholler said:


> You mean relying on the proven scientific fact that asymptomatic carriers can spread the virus is a tired argument??  Can you elaborate a bit more?
> 
> I still haven't heard any explanation of how lockdowns extended the virus.
> 
> ...


And, if the lockdown would have worked no one that locked down would have gotten Covid and it would have ceased to exist over a year ago.


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## begreen (Aug 10, 2021)

Medic21 said:


> And, if the lockdown would have worked no one that locked down would have gotten Covid and it would have ceased to exist over a year ago.


The lockdown did work, quite effectively, for communities that really locked down. However, a large portion of the populace had to continue working and risked exposure by doing so. Then there were the deniers that increased exposures. If one caught covid and did not have a serious outcome, that is fate and luck. It was not so for many and now with the delta variant, youth is no longer a protecting factor. This is a dynamic situation and the worst problem is that disease was turned into a culture war.


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## bholler (Aug 10, 2021)

Medic21 said:


> It’s been, from the beginning, counted in the Covid number whether it was the cause or considered a contributing cause.  All positive cases are in that number.


That is simply not true.


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## bholler (Aug 10, 2021)

Medic21 said:


> And, if the lockdown would have worked no one that locked down would have gotten Covid and it would have ceased to exist over a year ago.


Still waiting to hear how the lockdown extended covid.   

The lockdowns were never meant to destroy the virus.   They were meant to protect people.


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## JimBear (Aug 10, 2021)

I’ll just leave this here  :


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## bholler (Aug 10, 2021)

JimBear said:


> I’ll just leave this here  :



He is completely full of sht.   Just because he sounds confident doesn't make what he is saying true.


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## tlc1976 (Aug 10, 2021)

Medic21 said:


> I’m in denial off nothing.  It’s a virus.  One like we’ve never dealt with.  All we have done is prolong it with all of the shut downs, masks, etc.  all I’ve ever heard here from the beginning is how I’m wrong and irresponsible.  Going to the gym and taking care of myself during the worst of it.  Must have worked because I have antibodies and was never sick.  I’ve probably had more exposures than 100 of you combined and my wife more and she’s negative for antibodies.  Now we are seeing that the vaccine works first hand, at a higher rate than initially thought.
> 
> everyone has become an expert and most don’t know their head from their ass.  Shut off the talk shows and politicians and block out all the noise.  Love your life how you think you should and go on.



Luckily you must have the type of body chemistry that fairs well against Covid. There are theories about blood proteins but I don’t think anyone knows for sure. Why we got 20 year old athletes dropping dead, yet 90 year old smokers with copd and other things that barely get a sniffle. And everything in between. Severity does seem to run in families which makes me think it is indeed inherited factors. My daughter got knocked down pretty good with it, I don’t want to find out for myself how I’d do.


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## Medic21 (Aug 10, 2021)

tlc1976 said:


> Luckily you must have the type of body chemistry that fairs well against Covid. There are theories about blood proteins but I don’t think anyone knows for sure. Why we got 20 year old athletes dropping dead, yet 90 year old smokers with copd and other things that barely get a sniffle. And everything in between. Severity does seem to run in families which makes me think it is indeed inherited factors. My daughter got knocked down pretty good with it, I don’t want to find out for myself how I’d do.


There very well may be truth in that.  2 1/2 decades of being exposed to all kinds of viruses day in and day out and it’s rare for me to get sick.  Last time I got sick was after welding 10hrs a day for a week straight.  Before that was in the first 2 weeks I was in Iraq


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## begreen (Aug 10, 2021)

It was reported today that "Florida, Arkansas and Louisiana all have more people hospitalized with COVID-19 than at any other point in the pandemic, and nursing staffs are badly strained. "
What the lockdown did was to reduce the spread and caseload on our hospitals and medical staff. With a relaxing of rules, caseloads are escalating badly. Looks like this will get worse before it gets better, especially as the weather gets colder and schools resume in-class teaching.








						Hospitals run low on nurses as they get swamped with COVID
					

The rapidly escalating surge in COVID-19 infections across the U.S. has caused a shortage of nurses and other front-line staff in virus hot spots that can no longer keep up with the flood of unvaccinated patients and are losing workers to burnout and lucrative out-of-state temporary gigs.




					apnews.com


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## stoveliker (Aug 11, 2021)

Regarding vaccine mandates, I hope they do. My kids already have to have the MMR vaccines (and what else) to be allowed in school. All of us don't have polio because of mandated vaccines. Adding COVID to this helps a great deal getting this under control.

And I hope that planes, trains, sports venues, cinemas, hotels will not let people in that are not vaccinated. As in: yes, you're free to not get vaccinated, but you won't be able to enjoy some privileges.


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## SpaceBus (Aug 11, 2021)

bholler said:


> He is completely full of sht.   Just because he sounds confident doesn't make what he is saying true.


I could only make it 40 seconds.


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## firefighterjake (Aug 11, 2021)

stoveliker said:


> This is simply a symbolic issue now, nothing to do with opinions about the utility of masks. I asked my kids what they think about masks in school. They said "why? I prefer no mask but it's not a big deal."
> 
> In fact when they come home (from anything), I often have to tell them that they can take their masks off. Half an hour after they are back at home... (!!) Indeed they have adapted and it's evidently not a big deal to them...



This past year this was my experience as well at the one school I was invited into . . . the kids really rolled with the times and to be frank were better at masking, dealing with spacing issues, etc. than many of the adults.


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## begreen (Aug 11, 2021)

firefighterjake said:


> . the kids really rolled with the times and to be frank were better at masking, dealing with spacing issues, etc. than many of the adults.


In many cases, the adults are acting more like juveniles than the kids.


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## firefighterjake (Aug 11, 2021)

begreen said:


> It was reported today that "Florida, Arkansas and Louisiana all have more people hospitalized with COVID-19 than at any other point in the pandemic, and nursing staffs are badly strained. "
> What the lockdown did was to reduce the spread and caseload on our hospitals and medical staff. With a relaxing of rules, caseloads are escalating badly. Looks like this will get worse before it gets better, especially as the weather gets colder and schools resume in-class teaching.
> 
> 
> ...



My wife -- an RN -- has been out of work for medical reasons. She should be cleared to go back to work if she wants in a few weeks. Personally, I am in no rush for her to go back unless she really wants to do so . . . and not just from the covid concerns. She was often working short staffed before covid and had to run multiple floors and had a high patient load -- I can only assume things are even worse now.


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## begreen (Aug 11, 2021)

Hope no one needs serious medical care right now. My son's partner had serious complications yesterday evening, the suspicion being food poisoning from some to-go food. Called 9-11 and they needed to get her to an ER. Had to go two towns up to Edmunds because Seattle hospitals have no beds. This wave is exploding fast.


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## semipro (Aug 11, 2021)

JimBear said:


> I’ll just leave this here  :



It's misleading at best to say that masks don't work against airborne pathogens in aerosols.  Objective testing overwhelmingly shows that they do.   
Mask use and social distancing practically stopped the spread of another aerosolized virus, influenza.


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## Medic21 (Aug 11, 2021)

JimBear said:


> I’ll just leave this here  :



Awww, yes, this iackass had multiple malpractice suits and has lost one for 3/4 of a million dollars.  He is now facing a suspension hearing from the state licensing board according to local news here in Indiana because of this video.  
Oh, his “specialty” is not a nationally recognized one either.


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## Medic21 (Aug 11, 2021)

begreen said:


> Hope no one needs serious medical care right now. My son's partner had serious complications yesterday evening, the suspicion being food poisoning from some to-go food. Called 9-11 and they needed to get her to an ER. Had to go two towns up to Edmunds because Seattle hospitals have no beds. This wave is exploding fast.


I’ve been saying for two weeks that what is coming this fall will make previous “waves” look small.


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## semipro (Aug 11, 2021)

JimBear said:


> I’ll just leave this here  :



This is the kind of information that is literally killing people. 
A great response to Stock's claims here: https://zdoggmd.com/mt-vernon/
This doctor both agrees and disagrees with the main points of the original video.   I can well see why Indiana might take away Dr. Stock's license to practice.

More hear on Dr. Stock: https://www.factcheck.org/2021/08/s...iles-on-bogus-covid-19-claims-in-viral-video/


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## thewoodlands (Aug 12, 2021)

We have 77 new cases since Tuesday, that's the second  big jump we had cases in the last two weeks.


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## Highbeam (Aug 13, 2021)

School opens in 2.5 weeks for us! 

I'm starting to think the second wave hasn't happened yet. What they think have been waves were just ripples. Get your TP!


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## moresnow (Aug 14, 2021)

begreen said:


> Hope no one needs serious medical care right now. My son's partner had serious complications yesterday evening, the suspicion being food poisoning from some to-go food. Called 9-11 and they needed to get her to an ER. Had to go two towns up to Edmunds because Seattle hospitals have no beds. This wave is exploding fast.



Similar here. Buddy is a ER nurse. They have a stacked waiting room with several hr waits and diverting some completely out of state due to zero bed space in the rest of the local hospitals. Crazy.


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## begreen (Aug 14, 2021)

moresnow said:


> Similar here. Buddy is a ER nurse. They have a stacked waiting room with several hr waits and diverting some completely out of state due to zero bed space in the rest of the local hospitals. Crazy.


It is madness, considering this was preventable.


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## bholler (Aug 14, 2021)

Our best friend is an RN in an ICU.  And she just took a leave of absence because she said she just couldn't handle another round right now mentally or physically.


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## stoveliker (Aug 14, 2021)

Yes, I've seen the same happening on the hospital rehab dept's and nursing home my wife works.  In the former many of the serious cases end up if they survive. The latter was the source of many fatalities here.
Workload in both is increasing again.


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## vinny11950 (Aug 15, 2021)

This has been the true measure of the cost of Covid - the strain on the healthcare system.  Look at how many ICU beds are available and that tells you go bad it is.

But outside the healthcare system, a lot of people have moved on from wanting to deal with this.  No mask, no distancing, no nothing.  Like others have said, the cold weather of Autumn and going back to schools could make this very bad.  I hope not.

On the positive news side, I saw some news of new treatment drugs being developed in Israel that look very good at treating Covid.


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## begreen (Aug 17, 2021)

Saw some major denial over the weekend in a chat with my wife's niece, living in South Carolina. A couple weeks ago they came down with covid. They were very sick and on the edge of being sent to the hospital. High fever, aches, no energy, and loss of smell/taste. They have mostly recovered though her husband still has loss of smell and their energy level is low, but here is the corker. This was on a family zoom call for her birthday and to everyone's surprise, she said that she didn't think it was covid. When asked what the heck she thought it was then she replied that there was a lot of sickness going around and she must have just picked it up. We agreed, yes there is a lot of sickness in her community and it is covid-19. She refuses to get tested. Needless to say her siblings and all were gobsmacked.


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## tlc1976 (Aug 17, 2021)

begreen said:


> Saw some major denial over the weekend in a chat with my wife's niece, living in South Carolina. A couple weeks ago they came down with covid. They were very sick and on the edge of being sent to the hospital. High fever, aches, no energy, and loss of smell/taste. They have mostly recovered though her husband still has loss of smell and their energy level is low, but here is the corker. This was on a family zoom call for her birthday and to everyone's surprise, she said that she didn't think it was covid. When asked what the heck she thought it was then she replied that there was a lot of sickness going around and she must have just picked it up. We agreed, yes there is a lot of sickness in her community and it is covid-19. She refuses to get tested. Needless to say her siblings and all were gobsmacked.



Like one of my anti-everything coworkers. Saying how everyone is getting these terrible colds this summer that last for weeks. Oh but Covid has nothing to do with it.

Over the winter they were saying how the masking, distancing, sanitizing…. has nothing to do with how there was very little flu. Said that 2 viruses can’t exist in the world at the same time.


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## moresnow (Aug 18, 2021)

Sounds like my nurse daughter will leave the profession Oct.1. She is hoping to go help a friend who just opened a small town butcher shop! A much needed service right now.  Strange twist. Hope it works out.
  Enough is enough! With 3 young children she was up to her neck in nursing staff that would continuously come up with excuses to miss work. The majority of these abusers are single with zero kids. Guess who gets leaned on to cover these people..... Done. I am happy for her. She is to young to live that way.


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## Fingerlakes Fireplace (Aug 19, 2021)

bholler said:


> You mean relying on the proven scientific fact that asymptomatic carriers can spread the virus is a tired argument??  Can you elaborate a bit more?
> 
> I still haven't heard any explanation of how lockdowns extended the virus.
> 
> ...


If Covid was a deadly, deadly virus, as the fake, woke, biased media claims.......

Why would Gret Whitmer travel to Florida to visit her Father???  in the middle of a "deadly" pandemic!! when she had imposed a lockdown in her state.

Why was Newson caught breaking his own Covid restrictions right after he made them law???

Why did the Texas Democrats fly to DC unmasked, when everyone has to wear a mask on a plane???
What about Obama's birthday party????
There are many other instances just like this!! 

The bottom line is=they know its not as bad as what they want you to believe, or you couldn't get these people out of they're basement.


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## stoveliker (Aug 19, 2021)

I am sorry, but creating your view of an issue by basing it on the (indeed, if true, inconsistent) stupidity of others is a dangerous proposition. Instead, listening to those knowledgeable about these things (as in medical professionals including epidemiologists) makes more sense.

I note that you do the same (listening to those with the background to actually give sound advice) when you have fireplace or chimney safety concerns - you don't listen to folks showing inconsistent and unsafe behavior in particular when they are not fireplace or chimney experts *after having invested time to professionally learn the issues*.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Aug 19, 2021)

I had high hopes this time last year that we would be in better shape then we are now.. This seriously is not going the way we all hoped it would be. Im really  curious on what next August will look like.. to many people walking around like nothings going on..


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## Fingerlakes Fireplace (Aug 19, 2021)

stoveliker said:


> I am sorry, but creating your view of an issue by basing it on the (indeed, if true, inconsistent) stupidity of others is a dangerous proposition. Instead, listening to those knowledgeable about these things (as in medical professionals including epidemiologists) makes more sense.
> 
> I note that you do the same (listening to those with the background to actually give sound advice) when you have fireplace or chimney safety concerns - you don't listen to folks showing inconsistent and unsafe behavior in particular when they are not fireplace or chimney experts *after having invested time to professionally learn the issues*.


Wake up!!  These "stupid" people know its not true.

All these "professionals" that you speak of, are politically and financially motivated.
The professional that aren't, and speak the truth, are censored or deleted.
Did you notice that the video someone had posted earlier in this forum is no longer available???  I wonder why?
I am not denying Covid, as I believe I had it myself. it was the equivalent of a bad flu.
Dr. Fauci said= wearing a mask in a pandemic, gives you a false sense of security.
He later retracted that statement, because he got too much backlash.
Doesn't matter if it is the truth.

If a scientist told you, a bumble bee cant fly, but you see them flying with your own eyes, would you still believe that scientist???
I am a conservative Christian, and we have thousands of members from NY, PA, VA, MO, WI, IN, and I have not heard of a single  Covid death!!
And you expect me to believe Fauci!!


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## bholler (Aug 19, 2021)

Fingerlakes Fireplace said:


> Wake up!!  These "stupid" people know its not true.
> 
> All these "professionals" that you speak of, are politically and financially motivated.
> The professional that aren't, and speak the truth, are censored or deleted.
> ...


I don't care if you have heard of any deaths or not.  They are real .  I lost 3 customers an uncle and our police chief to covid.  One of my best friends who was an RN in a covid unit has seen hundreds die.  Open your eyes.


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## Fingerlakes Fireplace (Aug 19, 2021)

bholler said:


> I don't care if you have heard of any deaths or not.  They are real .  I lost 3 customers an uncle and our police chief to covid.  One of my best friends who was an RN in a covid unit has seen hundreds die.  Open your eyes.


They're deaths were the straw that broke the camels back. Let me clarify= Covid was not the only health issue they had.
I saw some reports that said the people dying of Covid had an AVERAGE of 2.7 other major health issues!
Why aren't all the slums on the streets dead???
Why is the southern border still open, to people carrying "deadly" Covid?


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## bholler (Aug 19, 2021)

Fingerlakes Fireplace said:


> They're deaths were the straw that broke the camels back. Let me clarify= Covid was not the only health issue they had.
> I saw some reports that said the people dying of Covid had an AVERAGE of 2.7 other major health issues!
> Why aren't all the slums on the streets dead???
> Why is the southern border still open, to people carrying "deadly" Covid?


So just because they had other issues that means that the disease that killed them isn't real????


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## bholler (Aug 19, 2021)

And for the record homeless people are dying.  Immigrants are dying people in other countries are dying.  This is not a political or religious issues it is a health issue.  Why do you insist on making it something it isn't?


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## Fingerlakes Fireplace (Aug 19, 2021)

bholler said:


> So just because they had other issues that means that the disease that killed them isn't real????


Oh, I believe it's real.
 Just like the flu, and pneumonia, and the common cold. I actually even believe it deadlier then the others listed. 
But it doesn't kill healthy people. 
So if I had one leg in the grave, and the other on a banana peel, I might be worried about it.
 Funny thing is, to most Americans I would be considered a health nut. But I'm not worried about covid. And I agree with anyone that says we are in a Health crisis, but it's not covid. It's obesity, it's diabetes, it's prescription drugs, it's recreational drugs, and the list goes on and on...


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## bholler (Aug 19, 2021)

Fingerlakes Fireplace said:


> Oh, I believe it's real.
> Just like the flu, and pneumonia, and the common cold. I actually even believe it deadlier then the others listed.
> But it doesn't kill healthy people.
> So if I had one leg in the grave, and the other on a banana peel, I might be worried about it.
> Funny thing is, to most Americans I would be considered a health nut. But I'm not worried about covid. And I agree with anyone that says we are in a Health crisis, but it's not covid. It's obesity, it's diabetes, it's prescription drugs, it's recreational drugs, and the list goes on and on...


But it does kill healthy people.   Granted that is fairly rare but it absolutely happens.

It also kills lots of people who were otherwise living relatively well with their other health issues 

People also seem to ignore the fact that lots of people even if they survive can have long lasting and serious side effects caused by covid which are completely unrelated to other conditions they may or may not have.

I do absolutely agree we have other pretty serious national health issues going on.   But that doesn't explain away all of the deaths in other countries from covid that don't have those same issues.  And just because we have other issues here doesn't mean covid isn't an issue.


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## clancey (Aug 19, 2021)

There are some people on here that would like to discuss this further but no way can we because we would be censored immediately and the thread would be closed because you "hold all the keys" talk about "free speak" and different "points of view" and not getting political even if we "try our best"---give the other side a chance once in awhile to explain "what we mean" because it could very well save peoples lives "if" you knew the other side of the story...God Bless America and I pray every single day for our country...clancey


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## bholler (Aug 19, 2021)

clancey said:


> There are some people on here that would like to discuss this further but no way can we because we would be censored immediately and the thread would be closed because you "hold all the keys" talk about "free speak" and different "points of view" and not getting political even if we "try our best"---give the other side a chance once in awhile to explain "what we mean" because it could very well save peoples lives "if" you knew the other side of the story...God Bless America and I pray every single day for our country...clancey


Explain away.   I only close threads if they turn hopelessly political or hostile.  Or they are based upon complete misinformation.

I don't agree with finger lakes and honestly thought their original statement was rediculous.  But after discussing a bit I can agree with allot of what they are saying.  I still don't agree completely and that's fine.  But nothing was censored.   Different points of views are fine and encouraged.  But I don't allow clear mis information.


----------



## Fingerlakes Fireplace (Aug 19, 2021)

clancey said:


> There are some people on here that would like to discuss this further but no way can we because we would be censored immediately and the thread would be closed because you "hold all the keys" talk about "free speak" and different "points of view" and not getting political even if we "try our best"---give the other side a chance once in awhile to explain "what we mean" because it could very well save peoples lives "if" you knew the other side of the story...God Bless America and I pray every single day for our country...clancey


It comes back to where you get your info. From the politicians and media, or reality.
If you are hunkered in your basement just listening to the mainstream media, it is no wonder you are scared.  Because if you have fear, you will not have commen sense.
Classic example is a human stampede, where they trample people to death. I am not accusing anyone of not having commen sense, just saying when fear comes, commen sense flies away.


----------



## Fingerlakes Fireplace (Aug 19, 2021)

bholler said:


> Explain away.   I only close threads if they turn hopelessly political or hostile.  Or they are based upon complete misinformation.
> 
> I don't agree with finger lakes and honestly thought their original statement was rediculous.  But after discussing a bit I can agree with allot of what they are saying.  I still don't agree completely and that's fine.  But nothing was censored.   Different points of views are fine and encouraged.  But I don't allow clear mis information.


Thank you for that!
A quote that i really like is= always listen to your critics.
Doesnt mean you have to agree, but censoring, deleting, blocking your critics is a sure sign of a dictator.


----------



## Fingerlakes Fireplace (Aug 19, 2021)

Fingerlakes Fireplace said:


> Thank you for that!
> A quote that i really like is= always listen to your critics.
> Doesnt mean you have to agree, but censoring, deleting, blocking your critics is a sure sign of a dictator.


And as long as we are having an open, honest, discussion about Covid, i would like to add this.
The test they use for Covid is faulty. Way to many false positives. 
They know this and are going to start using another test in December.  Why they want to wait till December to start using the other test, i dont know. Again i suspect money and politics. 

The only numbers i feel are worth paying attention to, are the total # of deaths in the US. No, not the Covid deaths, all deaths vs other years. I tried to find the numbers on the CDC website for total deaths to date, vs other years to date, but i could not find it.
If someone can find it and paste a link, that would be great.


----------



## clancey (Aug 19, 2021)

FLF----Where I get my information from is as valid as yours and as far as main stream media is concerned "most of them are down right liars".. ( I am referring to posting #196 where you used my prior posting---yes I have a right to speak or write too on here as long as it does not get too personal and this topic is important and national as well. I hope they keep the thread but I doubt it especially if I would raise my voice so I need to be quiet and believe me there is a whole bunch of information that I would like to say but do not want to stop your voice by a closed thread...clancey


----------



## Fingerlakes Fireplace (Aug 19, 2021)

clancey said:


> FLF----Where I get my information from is as valid as yours and as far as main stream media is concerned "most of them are down right liars".. ( I am referring to posting #196 where you used my prior posting---yes I have a right to speak or write too on here as long as it does not get too personal and this topic is important and national as well. I hope they keep the thread but I doubt it especially if I would raise my voice so I need to be quiet and believe me there is a whole bunch of information that I would like to say but do not want to stop your voice by a closed thread...clancey


Please dont hold back on my account.
The truth shall make you free...
My only wish is that people start seeing whats really happening, and not what the media says is happening. 
My heart goes out to the children headed back to school, and the way they are being used as pawns in the mask scam. To the detriment  of theyre health.


----------



## stoveliker (Aug 19, 2021)

You claim certain things (faulty tests, masks bad for health) without providing data. Given the known false positive rates that are out there, it would be good to provide a source for your information. 
Because such statements of belief presented as fact without the underlying data are precisely how misinformation costs lives.


----------



## SpaceBus (Aug 19, 2021)

You don't know what you don't know.


----------



## stoveliker (Aug 19, 2021)

Regarding mortality, I believe that in this decentralized country, the numbers for 2020 are not yet out (to compare to pre-pandemic rates).




__





						FastStats
					

FastStats is an official application from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s (CDC) National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS) and puts access to topic-specific statistics at your fingertips.




					www.cdc.gov


----------



## festerw (Aug 19, 2021)

Fingerlakes Fireplace said:


> And as long as we are having an open, honest, discussion about Covid, i would like to add this.
> *The test they use for Covid is faulty. Way to many false positives.*
> They know this and are going to start using another test in December.  Why they want to wait till December to start using the other test, i dont know. Again i suspect money and politics.
> 
> ...



Which test are you referring to? I can tell you that me and 35 of my coworkers were tested weekly from 10/2020 to May 2021 with PCR tests.

There was one positive test in that time period. So just from our small sample 1 out of about 1000 tests.


----------



## clancey (Aug 19, 2021)

Posting (200)  don't know how to pull the posting over and this is what I am replying to from FLF---Amen...old mrs clancey


----------



## stoveliker (Aug 19, 2021)

festerw said:


> Which test are you referring to? I can tell you that me and 35 of my coworkers were tested weekly from 10/2020 to May 2021 with PCR tests.
> 
> There was one positive test in that time period. So just from our small sample 1 out of about 1000 tests.



Same here. Twice weekly tests for more than a year. Now back to no regular testing (tho I suspect it'll change back to at least weekly soon). 
In 2 workplaces of my wife (nursing home and hospital), there were zero false positives (that we know of - and they did do double tests especially initially when a positive test came in). False negatives though have occurred more often...


----------



## Fingerlakes Fireplace (Aug 19, 2021)

festerw said:


> Which test are you referring to? I can tell you that me and 35 of my coworkers were tested weekly from 10/2020 to May 2021 with PCR tests.
> 
> There was one positive test in that time period. So just from our small sample 1 out of about 1000 tests.


I personally know some people that had to have the test taken, and it came back positive. They didnt believe it, so they went somewhere else to take the test, and it came back negative.


----------



## Fingerlakes Fireplace (Aug 19, 2021)

stoveliker said:


> You claim certain things (faulty tests, masks bad for health) without providing data. Given the known false positive rates that are out there, it would be good to provide a source for your information.
> Because such statements of belief presented as fact without the underlying data are precisely how misinformation costs lives.


It comes back to reality/commen sense, versus what the media portrays. Common Sense tells me, that if someone takes two tests in the same day, and they don't agree, one of the test is faulty. I have heard many instances of this happening, but I don't personally know the people.

And to the health detriment of face masks, Common Sense tells me that's if you are rebreathing all of the air underneath your face mask, that certainly can't be good for you. Instead of getting fresh air with oxygen in it, you are re breathing your air full of carbon dioxide and who knows what other bacteria and fungi.


----------



## stoveliker (Aug 19, 2021)

Humans are notoriously bad at "common sensing" statistics of large numbers (hence insurance companies doing so well, but that's another issue alltogether). 
I agree two inconsistent tests indicates something went awry. However, then to extrapolate those few instances you *know* of (rather than hearsay) to a whole population just does not work.

And regarding masks: you are dead wrong. I'm sorry. The point is they act like filters. Some things go through, others do not. CO2 goes through. The concentration is just not measurably higher than the outside air. Germs: you have a point. Hence, wash your mask after a day of (intermittent, by now) use. Or use a new disposable one. Just like you clean the germs off of your cell phone every day. Oh. I see.


----------



## bholler (Aug 19, 2021)

Fingerlakes Fireplace said:


> It comes back to where you get your info. From the politicians and media, or reality.
> If you are hunkered in your basement just listening to the mainstream media, it is no wonder you are scared.  Because if you have fear, you will not have commen sense.
> Classic example is a human stampede, where they trample people to death. I am not accusing anyone of not having commen sense, just saying when fear comes, commen sense flies away.


But ignoring the general consensus of the world scientific and medical community in favor of the media outlets political and religious figures you choose the believe (who are by far in the minority) is common sense?

Talk to some of the ICU drs and nurses who are actually working with patients.  Ask why so many are taking leave or quitting.    They have nothing to gain other than extreme levels of stress and being incredibly over worked.


----------



## clancey (Aug 19, 2021)

And not to mention the mental impact on the young children who can't even see faces and have to breathe through those filthy masks for hours and hours a day....This is child abuse...My step father told me that in that real bad flu back long ago that they wore masks but had to discontinue them because the people started getting bacteria ammonia from them  the masks instead of the Spanish Flu to where many many people died "worldwide"...He told me that the only thing that saved him was he had a friend who was a medical student and gave him some kind of a shot...he did not know what??...My step father was born 1890's or about...If I were a parent I would not let my children attend school under those circumstances and to me this is child abuse...and yes I would be right there with all the other parents that the corrupt school boards with money backing are not paying attention to and the parents have a right to raise their children on how they see fit and  not leave it up to a bunch of bureaucrats to decide their children's future...This is totally not right especially when they  threaten people's way of making a living for their family with all these mandates that take their jobs away by forcing them to take a vaccine that has fetal tissue in it as well as very dangerous other materials that I could name but won't...I repeat my brother got the vaccine and in less than a month he was dead with heart problems that he never had...so it makes one wonder about all of this especially since we have been given such wrong information.....Our country is in trouble and pray to the almighty blessed God for help...old mrs clancey


----------



## stoveliker (Aug 19, 2021)

huh, mental impact on children? Mine even forget to take off their mask when they get home. An hour after coming home I have to tell them "you can take off your mask if you want"... and then I get a smirk that they had forgotten.
For them it's "I go out of the house and put my shoes and mask on". Just normal.
Would they enjoy not having to? Of course. However, I do not see any mental impact of the masks.
In fact the masks have allowed in school education here, and I can say that the mental impact of on-screen education (from March '20 to summer that year) was visible. 
I am incredibly grateful for the science that has allowed us to create measures that allowed my kids to go to school without having a large part of that population getting Covid. I hope the same measures remain in effect at least until all are vaccinated. (Which, yes, should be obligatory for in-person education, just as mumps rubella and what not.)


----------



## bholler (Aug 19, 2021)

clancey said:


> And not to mention the mental impact on the young children who can't even see faces and have to breathe through those filthy masks for hours and hours a day....This is child abuse...My step father told me that in that real bad flu back long ago that they wore masks but had to discontinue them because the people started getting bacteria ammonia from them  the masks instead of the Spanish Flu to where many many people died "worldwide"...He told me that the only thing that saved him was he had a friend who was a medical student and gave him some kind of a shot...he did not know what??...My step father was born 1890's or about...If I were a parent I would not let my children attend school under those circumstances and to me this is child abuse...and yes I would be right there with all the other parents that the corrupt school boards with money backing are not paying attention to and the parents have a right to raise their children on how they see fit and  not leave it up to a bunch of bureaucrats to decide their children's future...This is totally not right especially when they  threaten people's way of making a living for their family with all these mandates that take their jobs away by forcing them to take a vaccine that has fetal tissue in it as well as very dangerous other materials that I could name but won't...I repeat my brother got the vaccine and in less than a month he was dead with heart problems that he never had...so it makes one wonder about all of this especially since we have been given such wrong information.....Our country is in trouble and pray to the almighty blessed God for help...old mrs clancey


How many kids have you talked to about the masks???

My kids don't care about them in the least and half the time forget to take them off after we are in the car or after they get home.   And this is what I hear commonly.

Secondly there is absolutely no fetal tissue used in the vaccines.  That is completely untrue.

What other dangerous materials are in the vaccines?  You said you wanted to explain your viewpoint here is your chance


----------



## festerw (Aug 19, 2021)

Fingerlakes Fireplace said:


> I personally know some people that had to have the test taken, and it came back positive. They didnt believe it, so they went somewhere else to take the test, and it came back negative.



So you assume it was a false positive, what if it was a false negative? 

There is also a narrow window of time when the tests can come back positive so it's possible there was an active infection and by the time the 2nd test was done the infection was through.  In that case both tests were then correct despite what the results look like.



Fingerlakes Fireplace said:


> It comes back to reality/commen sense, versus what the media portrays. Common Sense tells me, that if someone takes two tests in the same day, and they don't agree, one of the test is faulty. I have heard many instances of this happening, but I don't personally know the people.
> 
> And to the health detriment of face masks, Common Sense tells me that's if you are rebreathing all of the air underneath your face mask, that certainly can't be good for you. Instead of getting fresh air with oxygen in it, you are re breathing your air full of carbon dioxide and who knows what other bacteria and fungi.



If you're washing cloth masks and disposing of paper masks there's no issue of diseases from a daily wear. If you were indeed inhaling CO2 as much as you're saying there would be people passing out every day in every public place.



clancey said:


> And not to mention the mental impact on the young children who can't even see faces and have to breathe through those filthy masks for hours and hours a day....This is child abuse...My step father told me that in that real bad flu back long ago that they wore masks but had to discontinue them because the people started getting bacteria ammonia from them  the masks instead of the Spanish Flu to where many many people died "worldwide"...He told me that the only thing that saved him was he had a friend who was a medical student and gave him some kind of a shot...he did not know what??...My step father was born 1890's or about...If I were a parent I would not let my children attend school under those circumstances and to me this is child abuse...and yes I would be right there with all the other parents that the corrupt school boards with money backing are not paying attention to and the parents have a right to raise their children on how they see fit and  not leave it up to a bunch of bureaucrats to decide their children's future...This is totally not right especially when they  threaten people's way of making a living for their family with all these mandates that take their jobs away by forcing them to take a vaccine that has fetal tissue in it as well as very dangerous other materials that I could name but won't...I repeat my brother got the vaccine and in less than a month he was dead with heart problems that he never had...so it makes one wonder about all of this especially since we have been given such wrong information.....Our country is in trouble and pray to the almighty blessed God for help...old mrs clancey



My 13 year old is fine with wearing a mask. She'd prefer not to but in the daily living of her life it doesn't make a large impression. If a parent also doesn't want to follow the rules set forth by the school they are free to enroll them somewhere else that doesn't require what they feel is unfair.

Sorry to hear about your brother. The unfortunate fact is that with any medication there can be side effects that you can't predict. I can't use penicillin, my wife has an allergy to latex, and my brother is allergic to amoxicillin. None of these are apparent before there's an issue.


----------



## johneh (Aug 19, 2021)

I have no idea if covid is real or not then again I do believe it is real.
I have just returned from a funeral. One that I hoped I would never have to attend.
I just buried my firstborn. He was 37 and like some here a very healthy young man 
8 days ago he had the systems of covid his mother made him go for a test. It
 came back positive. 4 days later he was dead. He was an anti vacer and now 
we pay the price. His wife and 3 young children are in quarantine. Please Lord 
watch over them.  If you think it is a hoax  fine I just hope and pray you never 
have to bury one of your children. I think I will climb into my grief and just see 
how good that 30 old bottle of signal malt is ..


----------



## bholler (Aug 19, 2021)

johneh said:


> I have no idea if covid is real or not then again I do believe it is real.
> I have just returned from a funeral. One that I hoped I would never have to attend.
> I just buried my firstborn. He was 37 and like some here a very healthy young man
> 8 days ago he had the systems of covid his mother made him go for a test. It
> ...


I went to respond with a like but realized how horrible that sounded.  My deepest condolences


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## clancey (Aug 19, 2021)

So very very sorry and it has taken a lot of people's lives and this is serious stuff...so sorry...praying for you and your family..clancey


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## thewoodlands (Aug 19, 2021)

johneh said:


> I have no idea if covid is real or not then again I do believe it is real.
> I have just returned from a funeral. One that I hoped I would never have to attend.
> I just buried my firstborn. He was 37 and like some here a very healthy young man
> 8 days ago he had the systems of covid his mother made him go for a test. It
> ...


So sorry for your loss.


----------



## stoveliker (Aug 19, 2021)

@johneh I am so sorry to hear that. That is not something a parent should have to live through.


----------



## thewoodlands (Aug 19, 2021)

On 8/16/2021 we had 120 new cases in our county with 9 in the hospital, the report today is 101 new cases with the same amount in the hospital.

I don't think the kids are back in the four different colleges in the surrounding area but if it was like last year, our cases in our county will jump even more.


----------



## mcdougy (Aug 19, 2021)

Johneh sorry for your loss


----------



## fbelec (Aug 20, 2021)

sorry for your loss johneh.     thanks bholler i liked it and after reading it sounded stupid that i liked it. i don't.


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## fbelec (Aug 20, 2021)

sorry for your loss mrs. clancy. i just heard of a story from one of my best friends about his niece' friend, the doctors don't know why she had lost her life at 27 but brought her back right now she is in the hospital and can't move her arms and legs. the only thing they can point to is the vaccine.

a friend down the street just before the vaccine was passed for teens buried her teen. was in three sports and super healthy. came home after track and couldn't really catch her breath on friday left in a ambulance. monday she was dead. closer to this time, 2 weeks ago my sister inlaw her two kids and two grand children caught covid D and she said that everybody was sick 5 days and it was over and she 66 and had a heart attack and is overweight. her daughter has spinal biffidda (sorry for the spelling) they all made it and i would say it was because of the 2 shots before hand of the vaccine. just my 2 cents. vaccine believer. and yes there are side affects but not as many as you think. everything has side effect even aspirin.


----------



## clancey (Aug 20, 2021)

Yea I have a friend whose son is 34 and he got sick and is out of the hospital now and he was vaccinated so he made it but his mother asked him where he might have got it and he replied the only thing he can think of was filling his truck with gas so wear gloves everyone at the gas pump.. Another friend a handyman by the name of Roger got it and he is 70 years old and not vaccinated and his lung collapsed and they put him on a vent "twice" and to everyone's surprise he made it okay but they gave him those antibodies from people who already had it and he made it.., but he is home now coughing and choking with the slightest effort..I sure hope his lungs get better for he is a real nice man. I am just keeping my (a) at home hoping it does not come my way...wear gloves everybody and wash your hands often as well..Rest and take vitamins and plenty of fluids and rest awhile --don 't over exert "yourselves"---this will pass and we will get over this bad time...terrible clancey..


----------



## SpaceBus (Aug 20, 2021)

thewoodlands said:


> On 8/16/2021 we had 120 new cases in our county with 9 in the hospital, the report today is 101 new cases with the same amount in the hospital.
> 
> I don't think the kids are back in the four different colleges in the surrounding area but if it was like last year, our cases in our county will jump even more.


Wow, that's wild for the St. Lawrence area. Stay safe!


----------



## SpaceBus (Aug 20, 2021)

A family I knew back in NC got Covid and my friend's pregnant wife had to go to the ICU. They performed an emergency C section on baby that was six weeks early after a few days. The wife was intubated on a ventilator for a few weeks and somehow survived, but now needs speech, respiratory, and physical therapy. The baby was very small, I think less than 5 lbs, required tube feed through the umbilical cord, had to get kidney surgery at a week after "birth", but tested negative for covid, thankfully. Seems that the wife and baby have survived the worst of it and are now on the recovery path. Admittedly there were some preexisting conditions, but nobody was vaccinated. I think the family will be vaccinated going forward because it seems that natural immunity is poor, especially against delta.


----------



## thewoodlands (Aug 20, 2021)

SpaceBus said:


> Wow, that's wild for the St. Lawrence area. Stay safe!


These are our percentages of people with ages that are vaccinated.








						COVID Data Tracker
					

CDC’s home for COVID-19 data. Visualizations, graphs, and data in one easy-to-use website.



					covid.cdc.gov
				



*People Vaccinated
At Least One Dose
Fully Vaccinated
Total*
57,498
54,433
*% of Total Population*
53.4%
50.5%
*Population ≥ 12 Years of Age*
57,493
54,431
*% of Population ≥ 12 Years of Age*
61.3%
58%
*Population ≥ 18 Years of Age*
54,014
51,341
*% of Population ≥ 18 Years of Age*
62.7%
59.6%
*Population ≥ 65 Years of Age*
16,079
15,635
*% of Population ≥ 65 Years of Age*
83.1%
80.8%


----------



## mcdougy (Aug 20, 2021)

Everyone just needs to keep doing their part.

Without a doubt, there are lies and mistakes being made and said

For the people that think this is not real, continue your belief.
Please Don't ridicule the majority of people that do believe that this is a possible life threatening situation.
A situation that you do have some control over.
Do nothing or get a vaccine.
The vaccine may not be the answer, but to the people who choose to receive it, I'm sure most think its their best chance of avoiding dying, And how can someone say there is anything wrong with that thinking?
The elephant in the room that is starting to show is that the non vaccinated people are contracting the virus, with symptoms in general  worse than those that have received a vaccine.
I think society in general will loose sympathy quickly for the  unfortunate people who die from covid 19 that choose not to take a vaccine. Justified or not i believe this will be the outcome.

I do have a curiosity as to why the non vaccinated/non believers there is a pandemic people who contract covid and become ill go the the hospital? 

Can I ask fingerlakes fireplace and the others who refuse a vaccine " Will you go the hospital if you contract covid and your symptoms feel life threatening?" If so, can you explain how you will justify your "before illness" beliefs?


----------



## MTY (Aug 20, 2021)

Some people may feel safer with the virus than with the government.  I remember the Bay of Pigs, Vietnam, Johnson and Macnamara (sp?), "I am not a crook!",  "I did not have sex with that woman!", Bengahzi "What difference does it make now?,   The list goes on and on and on.  After Bengazi I do not even have to mention other events of the last ten to fifteen years.  When you are lied to constantly, you tend not to believe or trust.  

I would not be surprised, if it turns out the vaccines have long term negative consequences, to once again hear, "What difference does it make?"  

The above is not meant to portray my position on vaccines, but merely to suggest that there are reasons not to trust the government to be honest regarding them.   

As far as going to the hospital if ill, I do not trust the ex, (it's that dishonesty thing) but if I was bleeding to death I hope I would not be too stubborn to let her call 911.


----------



## fbelec (Aug 21, 2021)

MTY said:


> When you are lied to constantly, you tend not to believe or trust.


i agree with that. i choose to get the vaccine because of what is happening to the people around. i don't need someone to tell me what to do. but when it's the right thing


----------



## vinny11950 (Aug 21, 2021)

MTY said:


> After Bengazi I do not even have to mention other events of the last ten to fifteen years.



Yeah Bengazi wasn't the big scandal it was made out to be.  Several Republican led House committees couldn't find much in their final reports.  Now if you had referenced the Tuskegee Syphilis study, then yes, I would agree.

But let's be honest, a lot of the doubt about the Covid vaccine is driven by propaganda.  And in the modern day model of social media, propaganda is very profitable because it gets a lot of clicks and ad dollars.   The irony is that the same news organizations and social media companies that broadcast this propaganda about the vaccines are requiring their employees to get the vaccine if they want to come back to the office.

I don't know if any of the vaccine's are going to have long term effects, but I have seen and read enough to make an educated choice.


----------



## clancey (Aug 21, 2021)

After all the lies that I have been listening to with all these corrupt politicians and all their like--I will take my chance with the virus..Hope I go to heaven and be with the Lord. One interesting cite is the CDC web page that will put the scare into you all..especially when they started writing about the green zones then on the end telling everybody it was false when its in the literature..How scary is this especially with all of the mandates that these crazy people are putting proclamations about---just leave us make our own decisions about how we are going to handle this--just like we did the flu's..We handle our ideas and you handle yours to the best of your ability to feel safe and keep your families safe. Green zones are for us who do not believe in the vaccines and we are all gathered together and moved into these green zones to not let us have contact with anyone....how scary is that especially when the people vaccinated might be the ones passing the virus around to the unprotected ones..One article to read is: "Interim operations considered for Institutional shielding approach to people studies".. They say its false with their funky graphing but its right there in the literature...Take the whole day to read the cdc literature and at the end of it" We all will be scared S---....Yea I will make my own decisions about my body and expect you to do the same---we still have our constitution even if it is hanging by a thread---these are God given rights...clancey


----------



## begreen (Aug 21, 2021)

Better hope that you stay healthy if in a denier state.  Medical systems are overtaxed and at risk of shutting down. In Alabama, every ICU bed is full and all are occupied by unvaccinated people. If you have a heart attack, cancer, etc. tough luck. Ambulances may be as far as you get. In Mobile, they are roaming the city in vain in search of an available bed. Against this backdrop, the Covid-19 delta variant cases are expected to double next month. This is the same scenario that played out in India. 
Getting vaccinated and wearing a mask is not only about protecting yourself, it's about protecting the people that provide medical care, food, and services.








						Though young and healthy, unvaccinated father dies of COVID
					

MONTGOMERY, Ala. (AP) — Healthy and in their 30s, Christina and Josh Tidmore figured they were low-risk for COVID-19. With conflicting viewpoints about whether to get vaccinated against the virus filling their social media feeds and social circles, they decided to wait.




					apnews.com


----------



## begreen (Aug 21, 2021)

clancey said:


> Green zones are for us who do not believe in the vaccines and we are all gathered together and moved into these green zones to not let us have contact with anyone....how scary


That is BS and disinformation based on a hypothetical doc written up last year as the CDC explored options to protect the most vulnerable in poorest communities with limited options. 
Summary here:


			https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/downloads/global-covid-19/Interim-Operational-Considerations-Implementing-Shielding-in-Humanitarian-Settings.pdf
		

Snopes review:








						Is the CDC Setting Up 'Green Zones' or COVID-19 Containment Camps?
					

A months-old document exploring one possible response to the COVID-19 pandemic was misrepresented on social media.




					www.snopes.com


----------



## bholler (Aug 21, 2021)

clancey said:


> After all the lies that I have been listening to with all these corrupt politicians and all their like--I will take my chance with the virus..Hope I go to heaven and be with the Lord. One interesting cite is the CDC web page that will put the scare into you all..especially when they started writing about the green zones then on the end telling everybody it was false when its in the literature..How scary is this especially with all of the mandates that these crazy people are putting proclamations about---just leave us make our own decisions about how we are going to handle this--just like we did the flu's..We handle our ideas and you handle yours to the best of your ability to feel safe and keep your families safe. Green zones are for us who do not believe in the vaccines and we are all gathered together and moved into these green zones to not let us have contact with anyone....how scary is that especially when the people vaccinated might be the ones passing the virus around to the unprotected ones..One article to read is: "Interim operations considered for Institutional shielding approach to people studies".. They say its false with their funky graphing but its right there in the literature...Take the whole day to read the cdc literature and at the end of it" We all will be scared S---....Yea I will make my own decisions about my body and expect you to do the same---we still have our constitution even if it is hanging by a thread---these are God given rights...clancey


This isn't about what you believe.  This is about looking at the actual facts.  Talking to people who are dealing with it every day and realizing this isn't about politics religion or beliefs.  It is about doing the right thing to protect yourself and your fellow human beings as best as you can.   If you really are worried about our country and humans in general why would you not do everything within your power to help control the spread of this virus?


You also seem to forget that the CDC NIAID etc are not politicians.  They are scientists.


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## clancey (Aug 21, 2021)

Right now with Fauci--they are the worse kind--"scientists" they say...As for as I can tell they have medicines out there that could have helped with the symptoms and no one can even mention its name on the net or anywhere and they blasted it as being no good..a whole group of qualified doctors on the steps of the capital they also banned from speaking and deleted the videos' ..Heck they even banned our own former president from speaking---you trust them --go ahead----but not me.. The only way you help these people is by wearing your mask and make sure you have the right one for yourself so that you can protect me and you at the same time..make sure you get those plastic separators that keep people distanced from the counter having  people with the false hope of protection...They gather bacteria and there is more of a chance to get the virus from them just by being near them.. We are are doing the best that we can not to spread the virus and right now there is not one good way that people can trust. We can do the simple things keeping ourselves clean and washing our hands and coughing in our shoulders and not go out if we are sick or coughing and getting tested if necessary and if you can stay home a bit more as well...We are doing the best that we can under the circumstances and we are facing very rough times ahead...clancey


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## bholler (Aug 21, 2021)

clancey said:


> Right now with Fauci--they are the worse kind--"scientists" they say...As for as I can tell they have medicines out there that could have helped with the symptoms and no one can even mention its name on the net or anywhere and they blasted it as being no good..a whole group of qualified doctors on the steps of the capital they also banned from speaking and deleted the videos' ..Heck they even banned our own former president from speaking---you trust them --go ahead----but not me.. The only way you help these people is by wearing your mask and make sure you have the right one for yourself so that you can protect me and you at the same time..make sure you get those plastic separators that keep people distanced from the counter having  people with the false hope of protection...They gather bacteria and there is more of a chance to get the virus from them just by being near them.. We are are doing the best that we can not to spread the virus and right now there is not one good way that people can trust. We can do the simple things keeping ourselves clean and washing our hands and coughing in our shoulders and not go out if we are sick or coughing and getting tested if necessary and if you can stay home a bit more as well...We are doing the best that we can under the circumstances and we are facing very rough times ahead...clancey


Dr Fauci has been respected and trusted by every president since 1984 when he was appointed head of the NIAID.  He is respected and trusted by the vast majority of professionals in the field.   Why do you choose to listen to the few who don't trust him over the many who do?

Why do you choose to believe only the few studies that support your viewpoint instead of the many that don't?


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## clancey (Aug 21, 2021)

With all the information out there from all kinds of different sources people are going to have to decide for themselves on this Dr. Fauci..I personally think he should be thrown in jail..clancey


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## bholler (Aug 21, 2021)

clancey said:


> With all the information out there from all kinds of different sources people are going to have to decide for themselves on this Dr. Fauci..I personally think he should be thrown in jail..clancey


Based upon what?  Why is it he was trusted and respected by everyone for so long but one man says he shouldn't be listened to so now he belongs in jail?


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## SpaceBus (Aug 21, 2021)

Contrary to what Fox news says, not all information is created equal. Who would you believe when giving medical diagnoses, a panel of eight doctors that agree, or one guy that has a different opinion?


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## bholler (Aug 21, 2021)

clancey said:


> With all the information out there from all kinds of different sources people are going to have to decide for themselves on this Dr. Fauci..I personally think he should be thrown in jail..clancey


You also don't seem to understand that what Dr Fauci says is not simply his opinion.  Or even based upon just his research.  He is the head of a large scientific organization.  That organization does their own research as well as analyzing research done all around the world.  The results of that is what Fauci is reporting.


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## stoveliker (Aug 21, 2021)

clancey said:


> ...We can do the simple things keeping ourselves clean and washing our hands and coughing in our shoulders and not go out if we are sick or coughing and getting tested if necessary and if you can stay home a bit more as well...



Like wearing a mask. Like taking a vaccine that has been developed in one of the most capitalist companies of this country (Pfizer). 

What I don't get is this: you are of the age (ok, I presume) that you remember the joy of getting the polio vaccine because it works, because it prevented polio, because it was tested and safe. Or at least it was much, much safer than the option of running the risk of getting polio.

The covid vaccines are tested SO MUCH more than what was standard back then, our standards and protocols are so much better now.
The vaccines prevent death, even if not all infection. They do so particularly well, at 95 pct efficacy, which is larger than most vaccines out there. 

I wish that those refusing the vaccines would be ineligible for hospital care. To save some of the unnecessary, aggravating strain on those working in medical facilities, such as my wife. The impact of seeing most people you treat die, suffocate, alone - THAT is what you are doing. If you pass away, that is the consequence of your choice (it is entirely preventable!), but why is it ok to burden others to care for you when you suffocate away.

Same with the hurricane here. Everybody agrees that you have the freedom to do as you want, but if you go out on the ocean now, you'll be on your own.

In the medical field, it is the kindness and selflessness (the psychological impact is HUGE) of those working there that people that don't get vaccinated are abusing.

Again, you come here for advice on your stove. Why? These are experts and we all learn from them. The researchers at Pfizer and the CDC and the FDA (etc) are experts too.  Not following their advice (while following the advice from hearth.com) is just utterly inconsistent.

Rant over. It upsets me greatly.


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## clancey (Aug 21, 2021)

You can rant on all you want but for the other side of beliefs we never put you on the blame game,, We really do not blame you people for your beliefs and you way of life...If you want to wear a mask good--if you want to separate and not go to functions good and if you want to get the vaccine good--your choices---it's  when you approach on my freedom and give me mandates or else even to the point of arresting people alone fishing in a boat with no mask or shopping in a hardware store with few people while the larger stores are wide open. Or shutting down restaurants when they try their best and spend a lot of money to try to accommodate to make their places more safe..These small businesses are the back bone of our society and our history is the backbone of our society and look at the borders when it was so unnecessary. Are those people vaccinated and are they held in cages like animals confined..I could go on and on but one thing about it I do not put the "blame" game on you like you do so many of us...So you just rant on and get upset if you want to for there are other sides to the story that is just as legitimate as yours..By the way---the nurses job is not the only important job in this country and my taxes pay for health care and all kinds of things and I have a perfect right to go to a hospital if I am sick or not..if if my fault or not for that is one freedom that I have left...clancey


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## bholler (Aug 21, 2021)

clancey said:


> You can rant on all you want but for the other side of beliefs we never put you on the blame game,, We really do not blame you people for your beliefs and you way of life...If you want to wear a mask good--if you want to separate and not go to functions good and if you want to get the vaccine good--your choices---it's  when you approach on my freedom and give me mandates or else even to the point of arresting people alone fishing in a boat with no mask or shopping in a hardware store with few people while the larger stores are wide open. Or shutting down restaurants when they try their best and spend a lot of money to try to accommodate to make their places more safe..These small businesses are the back bone of our society and our history is the backbone of our society and look at the borders when it was so unnecessary. Are those people vaccinated and are they held in cages like animals confined..I could go on and on but one thing about it I do not put the "blame" game on you like you do so many of us...So you just rant on and get upset if you want to for there are other sides to the story that is just as legitimate as yours..By the way---the nurses job is not the only important job in this country and my taxes pay for health care and all kinds of things and I have a perfect right to go to a hospital if I am sick or not..if if my fault or not for that is one freedom that I have left...clancey


Again this isn't about beliefs.  This is about actual facts. You can believe the vaccine is ineffective.  You can believe it contains stem cells.  You can believe certain drugs are the answer.  But that doesn't change what the actual testing says about those things


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## stoveliker (Aug 21, 2021)

clancey said:


> You can rant on all you want but for the other side of beliefs we never put you on the blame game,, We really do not blame you people for your beliefs and you way of life...If you want to wear a mask good--if you want to separate and not go to functions good and if you want to get the vaccine good--your choices---it's  when you approach on my freedom and give me mandates or else even to the point of arresting people alone fishing in a boat with no mask or shopping in a hardware store with few people while the larger stores are wide open. Or shutting down restaurants when they try their best and spend a lot of money to try to accommodate to make their places more safe..These small businesses are the back bone of our society and our history is the backbone of our society and look at the borders when it was so unnecessary. Are those people vaccinated and are they held in cages like animals confined..I could go on and on but one thing about it I do not put the "blame" game on you like you do so many of us...So you just rant on and get upset if you want to for there are other sides to the story that is just as legitimate as yours..By the way---the nurses job is not the only important job in this country and my taxes pay for health care and all kinds of things and I have a perfect right to go to a hospital if I am sick or not..if if my fault or not for that is one freedom that I have left...clancey



I see your point and I vehemently disagree, but that is what it is.

I didn't talk about arresting people. I talked about a choice, the freedom of being on your own, but then to not come and ask for help when the consequences of a choice hit one hard.

Anyway, you are entitled to your view. I am just quite puzzled, see the polio vaccine I mentioned.


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## begreen (Aug 21, 2021)

We are in a pandemic of the unvaccinated now. As this phase grows worse, some of those waiting to get help are not going to make it. This scene in FL yesterday is what happens when hospitals get overwhelmed due to a non-stop stream of sick, unvaccinated people showing up.


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## tlc1976 (Aug 21, 2021)

Long term effects… Covid itself has already proven to give a LOT of people long term effects. So I’ll do my best to avoid the danger at hand and do my best to maintain a quality of life to see the future. Maybe the vaccine will give later effects, maybe it won’t. I could also end up with cancer, in a paralyzing car accident, whatever.

Businesses…. Everyone who goes into a business unmasked and unvaccinated is hurting that business. Every employee and fellow customer who they spread the virus to, is one step closer to that business having to close their doors. Especially small businesses which are the backbone of our society, who don’t have the resources to be shut down. It hurts when it’s your own customers who won’t do their part to slow the spread, and don’t seem to give a crap about spreading it to your workers. You wonder every day if they’ve spread it so much that this is the day you’re gonna get shut down, or worse.

Every time a person goes into a hospital with preventable Covid complications, it hurts everyone as well. Drains resources of the workers as much as physical resources. Every medical worker that it is spread to, is more resources lost, and they’re not easily replaced. We think medical care costs are outrageous now, just wait until this is over. And it may never be over, as the anti crowd maintains the breeding ground for one rapid mutation after another. We all want to go on with our lives, but they are the ones making sure the virus keeps going as strong as possible. Ironic.


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## begreen (Aug 21, 2021)

Closing the door on this thread. Once again, the conversation has gone off the rails. Enough.


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