# Screens over glass on gas fireplaces



## bmelanson (Sep 21, 2011)

I have been shopping for a gas fireplace for a new home. I think I like the fireplace extrordinair 864 HO Greensmart the best so far. My choice so far seems to be between that and a similar Mendota. After visiting several shops I became very confused by the display in the last shop I visited. All of the Mendota's, Atra/Jotul, and Heat n Glo models had fire screens over the glass. The salesman said that ALL stoves come like that now. The reason he gave was to keep people from burning themselves on the glass and to "improve the fire display by reducing the reflection on the glass." A later phone call to the shop yielded another reason: to protect against flying glass in case on an explosion during ignition.
Does anyone know the reason for the screen?  Any comments on the Travis products?
Thank you..!


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## DAKSY (Sep 21, 2011)

The screens are primarily there as a buffer to protect you from the intense heat of the glass.
There were a number of lawsuits filed for damages when children had received severe 
burns from contact with fireplace/fireplace insert glass.
The secondary function is to mitigate the reflection off the glass, giving the impression
of an open fireplace.
Most of the more efficient units on the market have Pyro Ceram or other hi-heat types of
material in the viewing pane. I personally have NEVER seen this material explode from delayed 
ignition, but I HAVE seen some of the older tempered glass units do this.
For the most part, tempered glass only explodes from impact, & that generally is caused by an 
impact along one of the edges & not in the center.
Also, I believe all gas fireplaces/inserts/stoves are now designed with either "blow-off" ports or 
with the glass frame is mounted to spring loaded clips which allow a pressure release.


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## Ironhorse74 (Sep 23, 2011)

ct girl said:
			
		

> I have been shopping for a gas fireplace for a new home. I think I like the fireplace extrordinair 864 HO Greensmart the best so far. My choice so far seems to be between that and a similar Mendota. After visiting several shops I became very confused by the display in the last shop I visited. All of the Mendota's, Atra/Jotul, and Heat n Glo models had fire screens over the glass. The salesman said that ALL stoves come like that now. The reason he gave was to keep people from burning themselves on the glass and to "improve the fire display by reducing the reflection on the glass." A later phone call to the shop yielded another reason: to protect against flying glass in case on an explosion during ignition.
> Does anyone know the reason for the screen?  Any comments on the Travis products?
> Thank you..!



You do not have to have a screen over the glass on a Mendota. All models have options without screens. Have you been to Mendota's website and used the My Mendota? http://www.mendotahearth.com. 

Currently there are two class action lawsuits against fireplace manufactures that I know of. It looks like the Lennox/Superior lawsuit has been settled. Lennox has to offer free screens to retail customers who bought gas fireplaces without screens. The suit against Valor is still in it's infancy. 

If you have any Mendota questions, please let me know

Brad


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## drewjube (Feb 14, 2013)

Hi All, long-time reader, first time poster here.

I read an article about this in the local press this week and wanted to resurrect this older thread for comment on the following:



> The industry buckled. In December 2012, the Hearth, Patio and Barbecue Association, the industry group that oversees fireplace makers, announced that it would implement a new voluntary standard: By 2015, companies must provide protective screens with each glass-encased fireplace.


 
http://www.sfweekly.com/2013-02-13/news/whelan-family-sues-miles-industries-fireplace-industry/

Thoughts?


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## Heatsource (Feb 14, 2013)

DAKSY said:


> I personally have NEVER seen this material explode from delayed
> ignition,


 
i've only seen the glass blow out from delayed ignition on one of the earlies heat n glo's w/o any blow off feature.
and i've seen a couple blow up from improper pilot lighting

lennox once paid us to replace an exploded earthstove


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## Premier Fireplace MI (Feb 20, 2013)

I would seriously take a harder look at the Mendota. If set up and Installed properly it is one of the best looking units on the market. Also take a look at the Ratings between the two models you are looking at Mendota wins hands down. As far as the guy that told you the screen was to catch or stop flying glass I would not be going back to him lol.


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## mygasfireplacerepair (Mar 14, 2013)

According to the hearth industry, safety screens on heater rated gas fireplaces are going to be required by law by 2014.  There are some manufacturers that are embracing this (Heat & Glo, Travis), while some are trying to fight it.  Oddly enough there is no requirement for wood burning fireplaces.


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## Ironhorse74 (Mar 18, 2013)

mygasfireplacerepair said:


> According to the hearth industry, safety screens on heater rated gas fireplaces are going to be required by law by 2014.  There are some manufacturers that are embracing this (Heat & Glo, Travis), while some are trying to fight it.  Oddly enough there is no requirement for wood burning fireplaces.



Where did you get the info that some manufactures are fighting the regulation? You do realize the regulations have not been adopted by the Consumer Products Safety Commission? No one knows what the regulation is going to be.

Brad


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## mygasfireplacerepair (Mar 19, 2013)

Ironhorse74 said:


> Where did you get the info that some manufactures are fighting the regulation? You do realize the regulations have not been adopted by the Consumer Products Safety Commission? No one knows what the regulation is going to be.
> 
> Brad


 
As of now, the Consumer Product Safety Commission is holding off on rules in response to the industry making them a requirement.  If the hearth industry as a whole does not follow through, the CPSC may rule in favor of the screens.  Fireplace makers will have until Jan. 1, 2015, to put screens on new units.  Some manufacturers have resisted out of fear of marring the aesthetic appeal of fireplaces or scaring off customers.

http://articles.philly.com/2012-12-18/news/35871240_1_gas-fireplaces-fireplace-makers-screens


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## Ironhorse74 (Mar 19, 2013)

mygasfireplacerepair said:


> As of now, the Consumer Product Safety Commission is holding off on rules in response to the industry making them a requirement. If the hearth industry as a whole does not follow through, the CPSC may rule in favor of the screens. Fireplace makers will have until Jan. 1, 2015, to put screens on new units. Some manufacturers have resisted out of fear of marring the aesthetic appeal of fireplaces or scaring off customers.
> 
> http://articles.philly.com/2012-12-18/news/35871240_1_gas-fireplaces-fireplace-makers-screens


 
Ok one more time. You can not put a screen over the glass, if you do not know what the regulation for the screen is. My screen is one square every six foot and the wire diameter is .0001. Get it? 

FYI my company is on the industry group that is working on the regulation. So which companies are resisting? Where do you get your information?

Brad


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## DAKSY (Mar 20, 2013)

Ironhorse74 said:


> My screen is one square every six foot and the wire diameter is .0001. Get it? Brad


 
Maybe it's my 60-year old brain, but I don't. Can you clarify?  A SQUARE what? I don't see that you can make a substantial screen out of wire that is 10 X thinner than a Red... uh... hair. (.001/.0001 = 10)


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## Ironhorse74 (Mar 20, 2013)

DAKSY said:


> Maybe it's my 60-year old brain, but I don't. Can you clarify? A SQUARE what? I don't see that you can make a substantial screen out of wire that is 10 X thinner than a Red... uh... hair. (.001/.0001 = 10)


 
Daksy, There has to be a specification for the screen. Usually done in openings per square inch. So a 1/2" by 1/2" screen would have 4 openings per square inch. There has to be a wire size and a material specification also. At this point in the ball game neither exist. Telling manufacturers they have to put screens on with no specification is useless. Can't be done. In my example there was  .0000000019 openings per square inch. I call that a screen. If there is no specification, who is to say I am wrong?

Brad


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## mygasfireplacerepair (Mar 24, 2013)

Ironhorse74 said:


> Ok one more time. You can not put a screen over the glass, if you do not know what the regulation for the screen is. My screen is one square every six foot and the wire diameter is .0001. Get it?
> 
> FYI my company is on the industry group that is working on the regulation. So which companies are resisting? Where do you get your information?
> 
> Brad


 
I am getting my information from my factory representatives (Kingsman, HHT, Kozy Heat) as well as newsworthy sites such as the site I linked to in my last post.  I'm not sure specifically which companies specifically were/are resisting.

"Up to now, most makers have not offered screens or big safety warnings out of fear of marring the aesthetic appeal of fireplaces or scaring off customers."
-Myron Levin, FAIRWARNING
Posted: December 18, 2012

I agree, any regulation has not been set yet (which is why it is proposed to be standard by 2015, not tomorrow) so there is enough time to come up with these regulations.  Again these are VOLUNTARY regulations.  So far the CPSC is monitoring the process and if these specifications do not pass and become instated by 2015, the CPSC could require them by law.  So far they have allowed the hearth industry to address these issues on their own.

The latest from my Kingsman rep is that the screens will be designed so that they will have enough air space as to not cause "irreversible burns" when touched by human skin for a predetermined amount of time.  There will be specifications as to what constitutes a "safety barrier" as well as what the requirements will be.  For example, they also must be able to withstand a certain amount of pressure when pressing against it.  Rigorous testing will ensure these safety screens and barriers are effective in preventing serious, irreversible burns.


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## Ironhorse74 (Apr 3, 2013)

mygasfireplacerepair said:


> I am getting my information from my factory representatives (Kingsman, HHT, Kozy Heat) as well as newsworthy sites such as the site I linked to in my last post. I'm not sure specifically which companies specifically were/are resisting.


 
Please don't state something as a fact, which is in fact a rumor.

Brad


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## mygasfireplacerepair (May 24, 2013)

Doesn't seem like a rumor.


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## Ironhorse74 (May 30, 2013)

mygasfireplacerepair said:


> View attachment 102950
> 
> 
> Doesn't seem like a rumor.



OK you attached a piece of Heat n Glo propaganda. Now show us all the regulations from the CPSC. Bet you can't.

Brad


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## mygasfireplacerepair (Jun 3, 2013)

> OK you attached a piece of Heat n Glo propaganda. Now show us all the regulations from the CPSC. Bet you can't.
> 
> Brad


 
OK.  That's because they are VOLUNTARY standards that were finalized and published in ANSI Z21.50-2012/CSA2.22-2012. These will take effect January 1, 2015.  Essentially these will be followed because local and regional building codes require that gas appliances be certified to a nationally recognized performance and safety standard for a permit to be issued.  If you want to install a fireplace in the United States, you need a building permit.  If you want a building permit, they will need to follow the saftey barrier requirements published in ANSI/CSA.

Sources: CPSC website (see attachment)


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## Ironhorse74 (Jun 21, 2013)

Read it again. That is a recomendation to adopt an ANSI standard.


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## mygasfireplacerepair (Jul 6, 2013)

I've read it.  Its not a recommendation at all.  The ANSI standards are already published (look it up) The attached doc is a response to a petition. 

Read it again.


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## DAKSY (Jul 7, 2013)

I'm going to close this thread. You guys are not playing well together...


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