# Sub Compact Tractors



## walhondingnashua (Jun 23, 2019)

I have been through a good deal of information about all the different sub compact tractors out there.  Most people are for kubota in this size range (and I am leaning towards them too).  However, before I buy one, I would like to hear from people that have other brands.  I really don't want to buy a john deere.  I know a few people that were not satisfied with theirs and they are people I trust.  
I am open to New Holland, Kioti, LS, Massey and Mahindra.  All but the Mahindra have a dealer within an hour of me and all seem to have prices close to each other.  I will be mowing my yard, using a FEL and carry-all to haul firewood, brush hog trails and move snow.  
Real-life experiences will have a big impact on my decision so tell me what you think folks that have used these other brands.


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## Ashful (Jun 23, 2019)

This neck of the woods is basically all Deere, thanks to a large dealer network here, and Mennonites historically not liking anything red and flashy (they even paint the chrome on their cars black).  So, I’m no help on brands, but I can say that I’m really not a fan of any sub-compact tractor, when I can buy a good cat.1 compact for much less on the used market.

Tractors kept indoors and used by homeowners have nearly infinite life spans, at the < 100 hours per year most of them see.  Why spend $25k on a new little sub-compact toy + odd-ball cat.0 attachments with such limited capacities, when you can have a really good second-hand compact with several standard cat.1 attachments for $5k - $10k less?   It has been a few years since I’ve shopped tractors and implements, so maybe the pricing has drifted a bit, but that’s where it was around 2010, and I expect the ratio is unchanged.


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## EODMSgt (Jun 23, 2019)

I have a 2013 Kioti CK27 HST, have had no issues with it and it does everything I need it to do. I originally was going with a Kubota, since that was what I was most familiar with, however after talking with the Kioti dealer and crawling all over and under the tractors, I was sold on the Kioti (and for much less than the Kubota). Normal implements for me are the FEL, backhoe, box blade and a scraper blade. I haven't had to load the tires and run a weight box during the winter. After all the ice last winter, I'm going to invest in chains this year. It would be nice to have a cab and larger tractor however I wanted something I could drop the ROPS on and back it into a garage.

Just like Dodge, Ford and Chevy. you'll get 100 people answering this with 100 different choices. I'm sold on the Kioti and after six years, don't regret it at all.


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## Dataman (Jun 23, 2019)

I picked up Mitsubishi MT18 about 5 years ago.   Great tractor.  $5300 with Plow Blade and Bucket..  Been great little tractor.  1400 hours on it.  We do about 50 hours a year.   Useful to clearing snow, skidding out trees from forest.   Repair of Driveway (rock movement).  Plan on Snowblower this fall.  I see them all the time on Craiglist.   Straight from Japan.  https://www.tractorco.com/ https://www.woodmaxx.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=SB-48


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## SpaceBus (Jun 23, 2019)

I have a Kioti, but not a subcompact. Local folks with the Kioti CS2410 really seem to like it.


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## duramaxman05 (Jun 23, 2019)

The only complaint I have about tractors built in South Korea (kioti, ls and others) the steel quality isn't quite as good as John deere or kubota. When I worked a kioti dealer I stripped out several bolt torquing them down to specs. I even had my snap on torque wrench recalibrated. I ended up using the lowest torque rating of the bolt I was using. Other than that, if you do your maintenance like you are suppose to, they will be fine


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## Ashful (Jun 23, 2019)

duramaxman05 said:


> The only complaint I have about tractors built in South Korea (kioti, ls and others) the steel quality isn't quite as good as John deere or kubota. When I worked a kioti dealer I stripped out several bolt torquing them down to specs. I even had my snap on torque wrench recalibrated. I ended up using the lowest torque rating of the bolt I was using. Other than that, if you do your maintenance like you are suppose to, they will be fine



They actually fixed that problem, by shipping a helicoil assortment with every new tractor.  [emoji14]


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## graycatman (Jun 24, 2019)

walhondingnashua said:


> I have been through a good deal of information about all the different sub compact tractors out there.  Most people are for kubota in this size range (and I am leaning towards them too).  However, before I buy one, I would like to hear from people that have other brands.  I really don't want to buy a john deere.  I know a few people that were not satisfied with theirs and they are people I trust.
> I am open to New Holland, Kioti, LS, Massey and Mahindra.  All but the Mahindra have a dealer within an hour of me and all seem to have prices close to each other.  I will be mowing my yard, using a FEL and carry-all to haul firewood, brush hog trails and move snow.
> Real-life experiences will have a big impact on my decision so tell me what you think folks that have used these other brands.



I have a New Holland Workmaster 25s which works well for me.  I considered the K 2680, but the 25s has modestly more lift at the 3 point, which is Cat I for both, and way more lift and breakout at the FEL.  Attach/detach FEL looks slightly easier on the K, but is easy enough on the NH.  The K has option for SSQA which the NH does not, but my dealer was able to fit a Kioti SSQA plate on the 25s (and I believe Worksaver also offers a SSQA which they say will work on a 25s), and recently had 3rd function hyd. put on, and got a grapple and HLA QA bucket to replace the OEM pin-on bucket.  Also use a 60" belly mower and 50" front mount snow blower which work well; I think the attach/detach for those are the same for the K and NH.  If you can, go for the hyd. chute rotation on the SB.  I paid well less than what the K would have been.


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## duramaxman05 (Jun 24, 2019)

I'm not brand bashing but New case ih and new Holland compacts are built by ls. May be able to save a few dollars going to ls.


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## walhondingnashua (Jun 24, 2019)

Great information.  Please keep the personal experiences coming.

A side question?  Has anyone run a tractor mounted hydraulic log splitter off of one of these sub compacts?  I have access to one anytime I want it but they guy runs it off of a Ford 3910.  If I know a sub compact can run the cylinder with plenty of power, I will have a rear hydro hook up installed.


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## SpaceBus (Jun 24, 2019)

duramaxman05 said:


> The only complaint I have about tractors built in South Korea (kioti, ls and others) the steel quality isn't quite as good as John deere or kubota. When I worked a kioti dealer I stripped out several bolt torquing them down to specs. I even had my snap on torque wrench recalibrated. I ended up using the lowest torque rating of the bolt I was using. Other than that, if you do your maintenance like you are suppose to, they will be fine



Sounds like a conversion error rather than a hardware problem.


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## SpaceBus (Jun 24, 2019)

walhondingnashua said:


> Great information.  Please keep the personal experiences coming.
> 
> A side question?  Has anyone run a tractor mounted hydraulic log splitter off of one of these sub compacts?  I have access to one anytime I want it but they guy runs it off of a Ford 3910.  If I know a sub compact can run the cylinder with plenty of power, I will have a rear hydro hook up installed.



Look at how many remotes the tractor is offered with from the factory. I wish I had known that I'm maxed out at two OEM remotes ahead of time. Eventually I'll get a Fasse valve setup so I can run my stump grinder with hydro top link. It's one of the few things I can really nit pick about my Kioti.


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## FTG-05 (Jun 24, 2019)

There are only two tractor colors that are worth a crap:

- An FEL that has a SSQA (or the JD QA).  No Quick Attach FEL = No Buy tractor.  Period.

- All your 3ph implements fit a Quick Hitch.  Even if you don't plan to buy a QH (and for $100 why wouldn't you?????), make sure your implements fit one.  That when (not if) you decide to buy the QH, your implements will fit without having to a) modify the implements to fit a QH (read: Massive PITA) or b) sell then buy new 3ph implements (read:  Massive PITA + $$$$).


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## FTG-05 (Jun 24, 2019)

walhondingnashua said:


> Great information.  Please keep the personal experiences coming.
> 
> A side question?  Has anyone run a tractor mounted hydraulic log splitter off of one of these sub compacts?  I have access to one anytime I want it but they guy runs it off of a Ford 3910.  If I know a sub compact can run the cylinder with plenty of power, I will have a rear hydro hook up installed.



You can, but why?

Lower flow than a standalone gas engined log splitter = slow cycle time.
Running an expensive tractor engine vs. a cheap ($200?) gas engine

And last but not least:  If you're log splitting off the back end of the tractor, how can you possibly use the most useful tractor tool at your disposal?  That's right, the FEL at the other end of the tractor.  There is no way I'd neuter the FEL.  Especially when log splitting.


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## pjohnson (Jun 24, 2019)

I’ve had two John Deere’s and no problems with either. Two pluses with Deere is parts available for years and hold their value. I used the first one for 14 years and got what I paid for it on trade in.

Plus one one the quicktach for three point buy it and make sure your implements are compatible when you buy em.

I had a subcompact and stepped up one size to compact. I’d highly recommend going up a model or two, such as the jd two series or three series, sorry haven’t kept up on models in other brands. You gain so much in stability, lift capacities, ground clearance, of course it all comes down to budget. There are a lot of nice tractors out there color may not matter as much as having a good dealer.

Another vote to forget about a three point log splitter these small tractors just don’t have the flow to run them fast enough. Why run a 20 thousand dollar engine for splitting wood. Plus the loader is more useful for moving wood


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## walhondingnashua (Jun 24, 2019)

It seems as though I should at least consider john deere.  I have just always felt they were over priced just for their name but it will give them a look too.

I appreciate the advice on the splitter as well.  I am only considering it because I have one available to me whenever I want it and I would only use it a few times a year.


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## Ashful (Jun 24, 2019)

walhondingnashua said:


> It seems as though I should at least consider john deere.  I have just always felt they were over priced just for their name...


There may be some truth to that, but on the other hand, you don't hear many complaints from Deere owners.  Also, you only spend the money once, whereas you'll be using that machine every weekend for the next 20+ years.

BTW, on tractor mounted splitters, everyone here seems to be assuming you're talking about the type that use a rear hydraulic hookup for power, but just as many I've seen have a hydraulic pump that runs off the tractor's rear PTO shaft.  3-point splitters are a "no go" for me, either way, I'd also never want to give up use of my FEL while splitting wood.  I usually park the bucket right next to the splitter, so I can toss my splits directly into it while working.  Other times, I'll park the splitter next to where I'm stacking, and use the FEL to bring rounds to it.  Either way, I'd not want to split the volume of wood I do, without the FEL there to help.


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## duramaxman05 (Jun 24, 2019)

SpaceBus said:


> Sounds like a conversion error rather than a hardware problem.


It was the metal in the tractor. A couple other mechanics had the same problem. The one mechanic is a mechanic for John deere for 25yrs. One dealer closed and he work st this kioti dealer for a year before he went back to john deere. I know him very well. He had the same problem I did torquing stuff down. The main problem was on the loader brackets


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## Bad LP (Jun 25, 2019)

I've never looked at the newer machines from India and other parts of the world but I can tell you when comparing Deere to Kubota and New Holland they are all within a few bucks of each other providing they are outfitted the same.

Deere parts are always available. I needed some transmission parts for the NH and the dealer told me they were unavailable here in the states. Friends brought them back to the states from Italy.


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## maple1 (Jun 25, 2019)

I've been watching the used ads here for a while. Used SC's seem to be like gold. Maybe just as well, wifey isn't sold on the idea yet.

My main use would be mowing. With our terrain (hilly & uneven), 4WD would be a definite plus there. Currently use a JD ride-on with chains on it, and even then it has traction issues at times, and I have to use a lot of body english in spots (hang my butt off the uphill side). So would really like to upgrade that with something more capable that could handle some other stuff too. Compact would be too big for what I would be doing with it, and we have other bigger units for the bigger jobs anyway.

First choice would be Kubota, mainly because of dealer proximity, and we have had decent luck with bigger ones we have or had. Next would be either JD or MF (MF dealer just as close as Kubota).


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## Medic21 (Jun 25, 2019)

I have worked in dealerships on the following:

New Holland and Case
LS
Bobcat(kioti)

Out of all of them the Kioti would be my pick unless I could find a Bobcat with the Kubota engine.  I believe under 60hp the New Holland and Case are built in Japan.  

If you can find a TZ series New Holland used you cannot go wrong with those either.   A lot of woods attachments available cheaper than new Holland.  

Over all after turning wrenches in equipment for years I would find used.  Pre emissions, pre tier 4, are better without horsepower robbing egr valves and pre tier 4 final without common rail high pressure fuel systems are way more reliable.  99.9% of the problems on new compact equipment is emission related and will make you go to a dealer for service.  Nothing wrong with a 20 year old tractor that has been maintained.  Even if you had to do some work to it it will cost less up front and last longer than this new throw away crap they build today.


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## Renovationman (Jun 26, 2019)

Back in 2007 I purchased my new NH TZ22DA and love it. Have 60” mower, tiller, FEL, and rear mount snowblower. My BIL recommended rear mount SB as you will need bucket for snow clearing on occasion. I’m glad I took his advice. Didn’t like Kubota’s rocker type forward/reverse pedal as it was uncomfortable to work with. NH has separate pedals. No issues other than this year main hydraulic hose wore through. Not the easiest to replace due to space limitations. 40 bucks to make one up. Have Speeco QA that I leave on tiller as it’s the hardest to put on/ take off. Blower is on for 6 months so not an issue. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Bad LP (Jun 26, 2019)

Medic21 said:


> I have worked in dealerships on the following:
> 
> New Holland and Case
> LS
> ...



Emission controls on diesels.

The exact reason why I bought a used JD4720.


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## SpaceBus (Jun 26, 2019)

I'm in the minority and I haven't suffered a failure, but I like the improved emissions. My tractor is so quiet with no stink


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## Dataman (Jun 26, 2019)

SpaceBus said:


> I'm in the minority and I haven't suffered a failure, but I like the improved emissions. My tractor is so quiet with no stink


Stink?   That's Dino Perfume!     Good Stuff.  Comes from Here! (Sinclair Refinery, Sinclair WY)


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## SpaceBus (Jun 26, 2019)

Dataman said:


> Stink?   That's Dino Perfume!     Good Stuff.  Comes from Here! (Sinclair Refinery, Sinclair WY)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Eh, I don't like diesel smell that much. Race gas, two strokes and race cars are a different thing.


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## SpaceBus (Jun 26, 2019)

Anyway, most new subcompact tractors don't have DPF and still meet tier four. Common rail is more fuel efficient with less noise. Egr is the devil I agree.


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## Medic21 (Jun 26, 2019)

SpaceBus said:


> Anyway, most new subcompact tractors don't have DPF and still meet tier four. Common rail is more fuel efficient with less noise. Egr is the devil I agree.



Until you have to replace an injector on a common rail.  $400+ and has to be programmed to the computer at $100+ am hour.  I can send all four out from a Kubota Engine and have them reconditioned cheaper than that. The Tier 4 qualifications required a DPF, Diesel Particulate Filter, and the whole regen thing causes a lot of problems.  Differential pressure sensors that go bad, injecting diesel on exhaust stroke to regen, the EGR valve, etc.  I’m assuming you meant DEF.  

tier 4 Final uses an SCR system like a catalytic converter in your gas car.  More reliable but added things like a particulate matter sensor that seams to be a problem in a lot of them.  The common rail system does its part to reduce particulate matter by atomizing the fuel better and controlling fuel injection more precisely for a cleaner burn.  Just way more costly to work on. 

DEF is 80+ HP and adds a whole new set of problems with the injectors plugging, tank vents, def quality sensors, etc.  Overall the larger machines with DEF have proven to be more reliable outside of the DEF system.  I delete emissions for people on a regular basis.  

Tier 5 is coming and will probably be adding back a Particulate Filter for a while new set of problems.


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## kennyp2339 (Jun 27, 2019)

Owner of a Kioti 2017 CK4010HST, I have put approx. 250 hrs on it so far, zero issues and love it, I did fill the rear tires with calcium (in tubes) for additional ballast.
I generally use the tractor for either digging or moving materials (like firewood) I do have the rear backhoe attachment, plow, box blade, pto wood chipper front end loader, snow pusher, log tongs and big material front bucket (for moving mulch, snow & firewood)
The tractor has great power (diesel 40hp) the 4x4 has a locking dif, which make a huge difference, there are 3 levels on the hst trans - low, medium & high range. Low is great when working in the woods, medium is fun when plowing and high is ok, but honestly it lacks power (if running on hilly terrain) I mostly stay in the medium range for things unless skidding in the woods.
In the future I would like to buy pallet forks, front grapple, and a fixed thumb for the backhoe, I don't see myself ever selling this machine, the foot print is perfect and it can pick up close to 1800lbs with the front f-e-l.


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## walhondingnashua (Mar 14, 2022)

What would someone consider a lot of hours on a used machine?  I have seen several on marketplace in a price range I can live with.  Usually 800-1500 hours.  I know there are a lot of factors, but should I be really uncomfortable buying something with 1500 hours or is that still in a pretty good range for a used small deisel?


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## salecker (Mar 14, 2022)

Barely broke in at 1500 hours
I bought a Bobcat S220  that had 1600 hours,it was like new.10 years later it's at 2600 zero issues except a hydroilc line.
I can still get more for it then i paid for it 10 years ago


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## Dataman (Mar 14, 2022)

Got small 18hp Tractor for $5300 with Blade about 2015.  Can sell for at least that much or more.   1400 hours.  Runs Great.  Sold the Snow Blower last fall and came out at least $600 ahead.   Going backward too hard and it was only useful for Major Snows over 6".   28" Blower does the Job.


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## Ashful (Mar 14, 2022)

walhondingnashua said:


> What would someone consider a lot of hours on a used machine?  I have seen several on marketplace in a price range I can live with.  Usually 800-1500 hours.  I know there are a lot of factors, but should I be really uncomfortable buying something with 1500 hours or is that still in a pretty good range for a used small deisel?


I've seen machines with that many hours on the odometer that were totally beat, and others that were barely approaching middle age.  Three reasons:

1.  Many machines have a proportional hour meter.  It barely logs any hours if run at low RPM, such as a diesel machine used more for front-end loader than PTO.

2.  Some machines sit outdoors, and maybe only see 50 hours per year.  It doesn't matter if it only has 1000 hours, if it's been sitting outside 20 years.  So, what year is said machine?

3.  Many hour meters are broken, disconnected by prior owners, etc.

Look at the machine, see if you believe the hour meter.   For a small diesel, 1000 hours wouldn't be a deal breaker.


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## duramaxman05 (Mar 14, 2022)

It all depends on how it has been maintained. You can look at one up close and see how it has been maintained.


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## Ashful (Mar 14, 2022)

duramaxman05 said:


> It all depends on how it has been maintained. You can look at one up close and see how it has been maintained.



To some limited degree, yes.  But a crafty seller can pull the wool over the eyes of even a very well-educated buyer, with enough effort.  Especially if said buyer wanted the thing bad enough to talk himself into something over which he might have some reservations or suspicion.  I've been in the latter situation myself, I have the old tractors, boats, cars, and semi-frequent threats of divorce to prove it.


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## kennyp2339 (Mar 15, 2022)

Honestly when I was looking for tractors a while ago, I would look into certain things, hours obviously but maintenance was big, checking to see if the zerks were clogged, missing, tons of old grease, underside if there was mud caked up, dents, scratches, oil level, signs of leaks (check the front axle oil level) hoses for cracks / sun damage, make sure the 3 point raises up and down fluidly, not a lot of slop in the fel if it has one, idle to full throttle without tons of smoke, clutch slop and rear brakes. Do the hours match the wear, meaning if the tractor has 150 hours but the tires are bald, vs 600 hours and the tires are new, you get an idea of what type of owner had it.


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## Rusty18 (Mar 15, 2022)

walhondingnashua said:


> What would someone consider a lot of hours on a used machine?  I have seen several on marketplace in a price range I can live with.  Usually 800-1500 hours.  I know there are a lot of factors, but should I be really uncomfortable buying something with 1500 hours or is that still in a pretty good range for a used small deisel?


I think the motors on most ag stuff is designed to run 10,000 hrs at rated hp...much much longer with light use.
I have a 5205 deere with 3k+ hrs on it.  Only thing it has had done is an oil seal on the rear axle.  Pretty sure that was a screw up on the preload in the final drive bearings when it was built more so than a failure do to use.


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## Ashful (Mar 15, 2022)

Rusty18 said:


> Pretty sure that was a screw up on the preload in the final drive bearings when it was built more so than a failure do to use.


Deere is still doing it.  I blew a hydro seal and dumped several gallons of hydro oil all over my driveway on a 2019 3033R in the first 50 hours.  Probably a $6 part, but they had to tear down the entire tractor to get to it.  All under warranty, other than my time to clean up the spill and several lost days with my tractor, waiting on the repair.

The perfect time to own a tractor is after 50, but before 500 hours, based on my own experience.  I’ve owned four Deere’s, one IH Cub, one Wheel Horse, one Bolens.  All older machines, bought very used, other than two of the Deere’s.

Edit:  oh, five Deere’s, if we count the zTrak, and not just tractors.  😀


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## walhondingnashua (Mar 17, 2022)

I'm lucky enough to have a dealer for all of the main brands within an hours drive of me so all brands are an option.  It's just going to come down to how much I get out of my ATV and sitting down with a few dealers to see what its actually going to cost me for a new one compared to used (with interest rates better on new tractors).  Massy have even come into my radar being that their engines are mitsubishi made.  
As much as I want a compact, I'm still open to a sub compact.  It will be hauling firewood, but I'm sure a sub compact will do as well as my ATV at least but it will be spending most of its time mowing my yard and maybe a few others to make a little money.  Hauling a sub compact around on a trailer may be more convenient that a larger compact.


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## kennyp2339 (Mar 17, 2022)

walhondingnashua said:


> I'm lucky enough to have a dealer for all of the main brands within an hours drive of me so all brands are an option.  It's just going to come down to how much I get out of my ATV and sitting down with a few dealers to see what its actually going to cost me for a new one compared to used (with interest rates better on new tractors).  Massy have even come into my radar being that their engines are mitsubishi made.
> As much as I want a compact, I'm still open to a sub compact.  It will be hauling firewood, but I'm sure a sub compact will do as well as my ATV at least but it will be spending most of its time mowing my yard and maybe a few others to make a little money.  Hauling a sub compact around on a trailer may be more convenient that a larger compact.


My 1st tractor was a 25hp sub-compact, the machine looked sharp, had a frontend loader and little rear backhoe, problem was, it was to small to be useful, the front bucket didnt have quick attach so no other implements could go on it, the rear backhoe could dig, but it was to small if you hit a rock or worked with real compacted soil, the speed of the machine was like 12mph on high full throttle, tractor was pretty light for moving quantities of firewood, Ultimately I was dis-satisfied with my purchase, went back to the dealer, was able to re-sell that machine and bought the biggest one I could fit in my garage, couldn't be happier with it.


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## Gearhead660 (Mar 17, 2022)

walhondingnashua said:


> I'm lucky enough to have a dealer for all of the main brands within an hours drive of me so all brands are an option.  It's just going to come down to how much I get out of my ATV and sitting down with a few dealers to see what its actually going to cost me for a new one compared to used (with interest rates better on new tractors).  Massy have even come into my radar being that their engines are mitsubishi made.
> As much as I want a compact, I'm still open to a sub compact.  It will be hauling firewood, but I'm sure a sub compact will do as well as my ATV at least but it will be spending most of its time mowing my yard and maybe a few others to make a little money.  Hauling a sub compact around on a trailer may be more convenient that a larger compact.


If the main use would be moving firewood and mowing the yard, a 25 hp sub compact would be perfect.  They are basically a big garden tractor.   Easy to transport on a 12 ft  single axle trailer.
I have a 25 hp unit that is between a sub and regular compact tractor, size wise.  Good all around unit, not too big to mow the yard, but I do find myself pushing its limits lifting/moving things.


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## Ashful (Mar 17, 2022)

walhondingnashua said:


> As much as I want a compact, I'm still open to a sub compact.


No way, don't do it!  They're not that much less expensive than some compacts, and they're so ridiculously limited on weight and capability.

If you're moving firewood, you're going to learn the value of weight, very quickly.  I actually tipped a nearly fully-ballasted Deere 855 MFWD two or three times (depending on how many feet of the ground you need to get one set of tires before you count it as a "tip"), and that's a good bit heavier (3500 lb. with ballast + loader) than any sub-compact of similar horsepower.  When it was time to replace it, I would have actually preferred the more ergonomic 2-series, which is close in size and capacity to my two prior machines, but ended up going with a 3-series for the weight alone.  No regrets, as I've even had the ass of that get light a few times getting big logs off the trailer, with filled tires and a ballast box.

Also, my friends who own sub-compacts have issues with plowing snow (too light), and finding implements that fit their silly non-standard 3-points (although this is getting better in recent years).  I don't know a single person who has bought a sub-compact, and not had buyer's remorse, wishing they had just gotten a compact.

I would get an older / cheaper compact, before any brand-new sub-compact, every time.  In fact, that's what I did for my first two tractors, a 1976 Deere 750 MFWD bought in 2011, and a 1986 Deere 855 MFWD bought around 2014.  Both old, but both solid and more capable than any sub-compact.


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## walhondingnashua (Mar 23, 2022)

I appreciate all the feedback.  I am probably going to end up with a sub compact.  It is mostly going to mow my yard and another yard I will be trailering too, so the smaller size may be nicer there.  
After a good deal of research, I am leaning strongly towards the Massey Ferguson GC series.  Most reviews say that they are the best built, especially for the price.   They claim to work at lower rpms, which is a big sell to me and have a higher gpm output than other manufacturers.  I also have 2 dealers within 25 miles.  Debating on new or used, will buy new if the wife OKs it.  
Any input on experience with the masseys would be great.
The last question I have is something I just need some clarification on.  I read that the Masseys are CAT 1 and the John Deeres are Limited CAT 1.  From what I understand, this means the JDs have more limits on the 3pt attachments they can use and the Masseys will fit most aftermarket 3pt implements?  Am I correct in my understanding?


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## duramaxman05 (Mar 23, 2022)

walhondingnashua said:


> I appreciate all the feedback.  I am probably going to end up with a sub compact.  It is mostly going to mow my yard and another yard I will be trailering too, so the smaller size may be nicer there.
> After a good deal of research, I am leaning strongly towards the Massey Ferguson GC series.  Most reviews say that they are the best built, especially for the price.   They claim to work at lower rpms, which is a big sell to me and have a higher gpm output than other manufacturers.  I also have 2 dealers within 25 miles.  Debating on new or used, will buy new if the wife OKs it.
> Any input on experience with the masseys would be great.
> The last question I have is something I just need some clarification on.  I read that the Masseys are CAT 1 and the John Deeres are Limited CAT 1.  From what I understand, this means the JDs have more limits on the 3pt attachments they can use and the Masseys will fit most aftermarket 3pt implements?  Am I correct in my understanding?


We have a new john deere 3033r and it's cat 1. Haven't had any problems using other cat 1 implements


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## walhondingnashua (Mar 23, 2022)

duramaxman05 said:


> We have a new john deere 3033r and it's cat 1. Haven't had any problems using other cat 1 implements


I think the limited CAT only applies to the 1000 series JDs.


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## hedge wood (Mar 23, 2022)

walhondingnashua said:


> I appreciate all the feedback.  I am probably going to end up with a sub compact.  It is mostly going to mow my yard and another yard I will be trailering too, so the smaller size may be nicer there.
> After a good deal of research, I am leaning strongly towards the Massey Ferguson GC series.  Most reviews say that they are the best built, especially for the price.   They claim to work at lower rpms, which is a big sell to me and have a higher gpm output than other manufacturers.  I also have 2 dealers within 25 miles.  Debating on new or used, will buy new if the wife OKs it.
> Any input on experience with the masseys would be great.
> The last question I have is something I just need some clarification on.  I read that the Masseys are CAT 1 and the John Deeres are Limited CAT 1.  From what I understand, this means the JDs have more limits on the 3pt attachments they can use and the Masseys will fit most aftermarket 3pt implements?  Am I correct in my understanding?


   I had a Agco ST-25 for fifteen years which Massey had the same model with red paint. They were made by Iseki. I bought it used with only fifty hours on it and sold it for what I had paid for it fifteen years ago. It had just under 3,000 hours on it when I sold it. Never had any issues with it just oil, filters, tires and a couple batteries. I looked at the Masseys this time but the dealer net work is not good in my area. I ended up buying a MX-6000 Kubota with a FIL. Bought it last June and have put a couple hundred hours on it and so far so good.


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## Ashful (Mar 23, 2022)

Same as duramaxman05, I have a 3033r.  Wouldn't even look at another tractor, after owning this.

But I believe the "limited" cat 1 refers to the lift height, which is less than their other cat-1's, and thus limits which implements might work with it.  However, I also believe there's no standard lift height defined.  It's entirely possible that the Massey "cat 1" may lift no higher than JD's "limited cat 1", just that JD is doing you the favor of letting you know about it prior to purchase.

There's a youtube channel called "Tractor Time with Tim".  I don't really like the channel, but I've seen a few, and I do seem to recall him having one specifically talking about the various limited cat-1 and cat-0 hitches on subcompacts, or at least the 1-series Deere.  It might have been in his ballast box video, as I remember him getting hung on the ballast box while trying to negotiate a trailer ramp.

If used mostly for mowing, I'd buy a zero turn.  My first purchases moving into the current house were a 4-year old Zero Turn and an old (Deere 750) tractor.  Could have bought one tiny new tractor with a mower deck, and spent much more for much less, but I'm sure glad I didn't!  The mower is still running like a champ, the tractor has been traded in twice, first for power steering and then later for something bigger.


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## ericm979 (Mar 24, 2022)

You don't even need a zero turn to mow the lawn.  A regular riding mower will do, and they cost less.  Which leaves more for the tractor.

A tractor large enough to pick up a reasonable load will be too heavy for mowing the lawn.


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## Ashful (Mar 24, 2022)

ericm979 said:


> You don't even need a zero turn to mow the lawn...


... said no one who has ever actually owned a zero turn and a few acres.  Ever.

Just kidding, sometimes the budget dictates tough choices, and you can mow with a tractor, if there's really no other option.  But I grew up mowing lawns on riding mower "tractors".  Bolens, Cub Cadet, Wheel Horse, and one little Deere.  You couldn't pay me to go back to that speed.

My Deere 855 had a 72" mower on it, when I bought the machine.  I actually gave it a whirl, just for kicks, but it was way slower and more tedious than the smaller 60" zero turn.  The 72" mower deck went on ebay the very next day.


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## walhondingnashua (Mar 24, 2022)

I did have the debate with myself about owning 2 machines, 1 to mow with and one for other tasks.  A zero turn can mow most of my yard, put there is a portion that is to step and they just spin out on (I've borrowed my in-law's big cub cadet with a wheel) and I'm not interested in buying any cheap box store machines of any kind anymore.  A box store type machine is the only thing that would fit in my budget.  I don't really want an older tractor that I'm going to have to work on a lot.  I just don't have the time to do that anymore.  Having 1 machine to maintain, that I can depend on to work when I need it is a high priority for me.
My SCUT will be mowing for roughly 1-2 hours a week for 5-6 months but it can work for me year round doing lots of other things.  And really, it will be a huge upgrade for me in both of the major tasks i will use it for.  I was mowing with a 1989 Wheel Horse with a 42" deck.  A larger deck and a faster tractor will be a major difference for me.  As far as wood goes, I was using a AWD wheeler.  Any improvement on those to machines will seem like night and day to me.

But thank you for the advice.


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## duramaxman05 (Mar 24, 2022)

ericm979 said:


> You don't even need a zero turn to mow the lawn.  A regular riding mower will do, and they cost less.  Which leaves more for the tractor.
> 
> A tractor large enough to pick up a reasonable load will be too heavy for mowing the lawn.


Both mowers have thier place. A zero turn is best if you have a lot of grass or want to get done faster. A conventional mower will work but take longer. They are good when wanting to lawn maintenance also. I had a kubota g1800 diesel with 54" deck and all wheel steer. It was a good mower. I now have a grasshopper 223 with 52" deck and it cut my mowing time in half. I've had it for 12 years now so I have saved myself a lot of time. The main downside to a zero turn is, is its hard to enjoya cold refreshing beer while mowing.


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## walhondingnashua (Mar 24, 2022)

"The main downside to a zero turn is, is its hard to enjoy a cold refreshing beer while mowing."

Get you one of the cub cadets with steering wheel.  My in-laws is pretty sharp and the cup holder is big enough for a yeti lol


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## Ashful (Mar 24, 2022)

walhondingnashua said:


> "The main downside to a zero turn is, is its hard to enjoy a cold refreshing beer while mowing."
> 
> Get you one of the cub cadets with steering wheel.  My in-laws is pretty sharp and the cup holder is big enough for a yeti lol


Yahbut… if it rides like most zero turns, the beer will be somewhere between flat and ejected from the cup holder, multiple times per mowing. DAMHIKT


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## ericm979 (Mar 24, 2022)

If someone's ok with mowing the lawn with a subcompact, a riding mower would be acceptable since it's about the same speed.  If the goal is to spend as little time as possible, paying someone to mow would accomplish that even better than a zero turn.

A mid mounted mower deck on a subcompact will be easy to damage in the woods or rougher terrain.  You might be be taking it off and putting it on a lot.


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## blades (Mar 25, 2022)

mid mower deck on a tractor is sort of a pain unless it was  specifically designed for each other,  hang a deck on on alot of the units in the middle and you get jammed up all the time, not enough clearance height. ( yes a have one MF 1230 w/ 60" mid  deck)  another thing that comes to play is center of gravity.  With ROPS up you won't be sneaking under some of your trees either.  on mine there just isn't enough height under the tractor to float the deck on it's own wheels.


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## hedge wood (Mar 25, 2022)

The Agco ST-25 that I sold last summer had a mid mount 72 inch mower on it when I bought it used at a farm sale. The guy that had it had only used it to mow the fifty hours it had on it. The three point had never been used. I bought it home took the mower off and all the mounting hardware and put it in the shed for fifteen years. The guy that bought it wanted to mow with it so I put the mounts and mower back on and he took it home with the mower on. As far as I know it was going to be his only mower as his other one had lost a engine. Years ago when I had more help around we used to mow some with a old Yamar two cylinder engine tractor and a three point 72 inch finish mower it worked ok but I would never give up my zero turn.


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## blades (Mar 25, 2022)

3 point mower would work much better for me.  $$$$$  for even a used one . course I could convert the deck I have, but wood(  )need a step up gear box/pulleys for the 540pto as the mid drive is 1000rpm. ( not uncommon and some tractors have both out the back). Could independantely power it, in which case I wood need to step down the rpm from an engine either by pulleys / gear box. Have a mower for the sons 8n- wood need a different pto shaft as the 8n pto is smaller than my MF 1230 pto. About $250 for shaft. There is a permanently installed reducer in the current shaft for the 8n. This all reminds me that I need to go through the spark and fuel systems on the 8n- still a 6volt unit.


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## Bad LP (Mar 25, 2022)

I’m at the point of buying a lawn tractor that can bag. However the garage is full so there’s a lot to deal with on that front. 

I think I’ll just pay the guy.


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## duramaxman05 (Mar 25, 2022)

blades said:


> 3 point mower would work much better for me.  $$$$$  for even a used one . course I could convert the deck I have, but wood(  )need a step up gear box/pulleys for the 540pto as the mid drive is 1000rpm. ( not uncommon and some tractors have both out the back). Could independantely power it, in which case I wood need to step down the rpm from an engine either by pulleys / gear box. Have a mower for the sons 8n- wood need a different pto shaft as the 8n pto is smaller than my MF 1230 pto. About $250 for shaft. There is a permanently installed reducer in the current shaft for the 8n. This all reminds me that I need to go through the spark and fuel systems on the 8n- still a 6volt unit.


Depends on the tractor too. Our kubota b7100 has a 3spd pto.


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## Ashful (Mar 25, 2022)

duramaxman05 said:


> Depends on the tractor too. Our kubota b7100 has a 3spd pto.


Very cool.  I had to look that one up!

But your B7100 has about as much in common with his 8N as Bo and Luke's General Lee had with a Model T.


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## ericm979 (Mar 25, 2022)

My B7100 only had a two speed PTO: 540 and 1000.  Supposedly Japanese implements used 1000 rpm.

My current Branson has 540 and 750.  The 750 is touted as an economy PTO speed, so you can run a lower engine speed and still get correct PTO rpm.


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## Ashful (Mar 26, 2022)

Interesting.  Each of my tractors has had 540 RPM only rear PTO, and a faster (eg 2100 RPM) forward-facing mid-PTO.  But other than a 72” mower that came with one of my pre-owned machines, and which I immediately sold, I’ve never owned any implement that actually used the mid-PTO.  

I still added mid-PTO as an option to the new 3033R, thinking at the time I might add a front snow blower, and that it would give me both one additional hydraulic channel and better resale value.   I use the additional channel for hydraulic top link and for snow plow angle, now.


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## walhondingnashua (Mar 28, 2022)

Do all the sub compact run the same size tires?  If I bought a used one with turf tires, would the take offs from another make fit?


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## blades (Mar 28, 2022)

no they do not, and the bolt patterns are not all the same ,  sub compacts = glorified lawn mowers and priced accordingly.


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## duramaxman05 (Mar 28, 2022)

walhondingnashua said:


> Do all the sub compact run the same size tires?  If I bought a used one with turf tires, would the take offs from another make fit?


Tires are probably pretty close to all being the same but wheels probably are different


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## Ashful (Mar 28, 2022)

blades said:


> no they do not, and the bolt patterns are not all the same ,  sub compacts = glorified lawn mowers and priced accordingly.


lol... glad someone said it.  

There may be rare cases where a sub-compact fits the bill, as may be the case with the OP.  But I paid less for a 4 year old 250-hour commercial 60" zero turn PLUS a 4wd compact utility tractor with front-end loader, than many of my acquaintances have paid for one new sub-compact with mower deck.

That goes nearly double for the few who added a completely useless backhoe to their subcompact.  Below a certain depth, I can out-dig most of those backhoes with a shovel and my own two arms.


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## Bad LP (Mar 28, 2022)

walhondingnashua said:


> Do all the sub compact run the same size tires?  If I bought a used one with turf tires, would the take offs from another make fit?


Well it’s a compact not a sub but buying tires isn’t to be taken lightly. Here is what 4600 bucks looks like on my rims that had R1’s.  
In round numbers that’s 1/7 of the cost of the machine.


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## ericm979 (Mar 28, 2022)

What kind of tires are those?  They're not the usual R1 farm or R4 industrial tires.


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## Ashful (Mar 28, 2022)

ericm979 said:


> What kind of tires are those?  They're not the usual R1 farm or R4 industrial tires.











						Nokian Tyres TRI 2 / Nokian Tyres
					

Reliable performance all year round




					www.nokiantyres.com


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## Bad LP (Mar 28, 2022)

Ashful said:


> Nokian Tyres TRI 2 / Nokian Tyres
> 
> 
> Reliable performance all year round
> ...


It’s supposed to be an outstanding snow tire. My R1’s were horrible. 
Being a heavier built tire I should not need to worry about working in the woods plus I’m also not tearing the hell out of the grass/weeds/soils and driveway.


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## Ashful (Mar 29, 2022)

That is a serious machine, I'm sure it was hell on your lawn with R1's!  It'll be interesting to see how these do, I've never seen anyone run them around here.  Most here have been doing R4's the last 10 years, although enough people are seeing the downsides to those, that now they're starting to try other options.

I just run turf tires, and chain up on very rare occasions (less than once per year) that mud or snow require it.  HD chains for bulbous wide 41" tires are heavy and expensive, and I really hate them, but they give me instant four corners of R1 traction without playing hell on the lawn the rest of the year.  Finding heavy front turfs for maximizing loader capacity is always an issue, but the options are out there, if you hunt for them.

Turf tires actually do remarkably well plowing snow on asphalt, they just clog up too easily when pulling the wood wagon across a snowy yard.  If the wood wagon is getting low (every 3rd week), and there's a big snow in the forecast, I try to get it filled before the snow comes to avoid having to drag the chains out.  I try to time any ventures into the wetter and muddier parts of our woods for dryer (or frozen) times of the year, for the same reason.

Those TRI2's are more akin to turfs than an R1, with a slightly more aggressive tread and much harder shoulder on the tread.  I'd guess they share at least some of the same advantages and disadvantages.


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## Bad LP (Mar 29, 2022)

Ashful said:


> That is a serious machine, I'm sure it was hell on your lawn with R1's!  It'll be interesting to see how these do, I've never seen anyone run them around here.  Most here have been doing R4's the last 10 years, although enough people are seeing the downsides to those, that now they're starting to try other options.
> 
> I just run turf tires, and chain up on very rare occasions (less than once per year) that mud or snow require it.  HD chains for bulbous wide 41" tires are heavy and expensive, and I really hate them, but they give me instant four corners of R1 traction without playing hell on the lawn the rest of the year.  Finding heavy front turfs for maximizing loader capacity is always an issue, but the options are out there, if you hunt for them.
> 
> ...


I have about 25 years experience with snow removal and turfs with a much larger framed machine. They work but not so great. It didn’t matter because I had many other options to move snow. 
My lawn up here is not groomed but I also don’t want it dug up as I cross the edges. 
These are closer to the R14’s IMO. 
I was going to go with R4’s but the talk going on about these made the final decision. Hope it wasn’t bad news with an inch of frosting on turds. 😂 
The primary uses for this machine in order are: 
1) snow blowing.
2) ability to retrieve logs with a logging winch.
3) chipping said tops and branches
4) cutting back tall grass/weeds and saplings. 
5) forks for moving stuff by myself. It’s just me and the wife

I’m not that interested in chains but fully recognized the benefits.


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## Ashful (Mar 29, 2022)

I'm not sure how this translates to 5 mph show pushing machines, but one thing I learned driving light pickups on big tires (and then displayed exceedingly well driving a dually), is that narrow tires are key in snow at on-road speeds.  Those old army Jeep guys knew a thing or two, I guess.

The wide tires just plane atop the snow, while narrow tires bite thru to the asphalt beneath.  I wonder how that translates to a tractor doing 5 mph, but I suspect it does.  I'm noting the relatively narrow profile of your rears, as compared to a R3, and wondering if that's part of why they're recommended for snow duty.


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## hedge wood (Mar 29, 2022)

In my area the county just bought a bunch of new Cat road graders. { I guess us the tax payers must be rich} and they all seem to have the Nokian TRI-2 tires on them. Talked to one of the operators a while back and he said they told him they are suppose to have good traction in snow and they shouldn't have to chain up as much pushing snow on the county gravel roads. We didn't have enough snow this winter that they even went out.


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## Bad LP (Mar 29, 2022)

Ashful said:


> I'm not sure how this translates to 5 mph show pushing machines, but one thing I learned driving light pickups on big tires (and then displayed exceedingly well driving a dually), is that narrow tires are key in snow at on-road speeds.  Those old army Jeep guys knew a thing or two, I guess.
> 
> The wide tires just plane atop the snow, while narrow tires bite thru to the asphalt beneath.  I wonder how that translates to a tractor doing 5 mph, but I suspect it does.  I'm noting the relatively narrow profile of your rears, as compared to a R3, and wondering if that's part of why they're recommended for snow duty.


Wide tires are a huge no no for snow removal. I've run pick up trucks in driveways, parking lots and electrical sub stations all the way up to 10 wheel Mack trucks on highways and state roads. 

These tires are not much wider than the R1's.  A combination between the tread pattern, blocks and rubber compound all help. They also offer a snow rated tire that you can see on many Plowsite.com snow removal operations. Those may have been the absolute best option but I expect these to me fine.
1.5 feet of snow doesn't even slow the machine down at the snowbank from the town. In fact there is so much power available I can re-process the snow blowing it between the machine and the inverted blower and make 3-4 full width passes to get me closer to the edges of the parking area and still adjust the chute and send that reblown snow an easy 35 feet into the woods. That's a lot of snow with zero air in it.
I was hoping for a last huge dumping of snow to test it all out. No problem putting the inverted blower back on if it comes.


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## walhondingnashua (Mar 30, 2022)

So I ended up with a 2012 GC2400 in my garage.  Everything in pretty good shape.  54" deck, R4 tires with a lot of life left on them, and the hydraulic hook ups for a loader (previous owner had a snow plow that they kept.  I'm hoping to save up a little more money and add the loader.  I'm overly impressed with how many grease zerks it has on it.  You can grease just about every moving part on it.   Before I start doing much with it, I want to change all fluids and filters.  
To start learning more about this tractor (and any other information I'll need over the years) I want to join a tractor specific forum.  As far as I am concerned, these forums are the best source of real-world information you can get.  What suggestions to people have for the best forum for me to join for my needs?  What is everyone on here using?


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## Ashful (Mar 30, 2022)

Congratulations!  Start hunting a loader now, if you want one, used loaders are rarer than hen's teeth.  You may find in the end that it's easier and cheaper to just buy a tractor with a loader, and resell either your tractor or the one that came with the new loader, depending on which is in better condition.

Deere and Kubota (the "big 2") have their own brand-specific forums, but I'm not sure if any exist for Massey.  The tractorbynet forum is always a good place to start, and I do believe they have an MF sub-forum there.  If there's a better forum out there, you'll likely also find that posted somewhere at tractorbynet.

Happy tractoring!


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## walhondingnashua (Mar 30, 2022)

On the loader topic...
I've noticed how hard a used one is to find.  My plan is to actually buy a brand new one.  The valves are a very expensive part of that set up and installing them has a high cost than adding the loader itself.  Installing the loader for me at this point would be supper easy.  I have even been considering finding a cheaper, older loader from any machine and figuring out how to fab it on.   Having the hydros was the most important part to me.  The few used I have seen are only slightly cheaper than a new one and if I ever sold, I'm sure I would get most of my  money back.

I have been on the tractorbynet forum before and it looks like it has good information.  I will probably join.  It's really hard to beat the information you can get on a forum.  The fact that I can get feedback or advice from someone that lives in Oregon has really broadened the information pool.


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## duramaxman05 (Mar 30, 2022)

walhondingnashua said:


> So I ended up with a 2012 GC2400 in my garage.  Everything in pretty good shape.  54" deck, R4 tires with a lot of life left on them, and the hydraulic hook ups for a loader (previous owner had a snow plow that they kept.  I'm hoping to save up a little more money and add the loader.  I'm overly impressed with how many grease zerks it has on it.  You can grease just about every moving part on it.   Before I start doing much with it, I want to change all fluids and filters.
> To start learning more about this tractor (and any other information I'll need over the years) I want to join a tractor specific forum.  As far as I am concerned, these forums are the best source of real-world information you can get.  What suggestions to people have for the best forum for me to join for my needs?  What is everyone on here using?


I don't know how massey ferguson are set up, but if it has the loader/blade control around the rear fender area, you shouldn't need the valve thus lowering the cost quite a bit


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## walhondingnashua (Mar 30, 2022)

duramaxman05 said:


> I don't know how massey ferguson are set up, but if it has the loader/blade control around the rear fender area, you shouldn't need the valve thus lowering the cost quite a bit


It actually has the 4 quick connect fittings on the right foot deck in front of the hydro pedals and a joystick ready to go.  I haven't done any measurements but I know the Rural King tractors (TYM) have a very similar style loader.  Bolt on pattern for the brackets are different, but they are more than $1000 cheaper than one from Massey (agco).  A little fabrication and maybe it will work.  Just brainstorming ideas though.


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## Ashful (Mar 30, 2022)

walhondingnashua said:


> It actually has the 4 quick connect fittings on the right foot deck in front of the hydro pedals and a joystick ready to go.  I haven't done any measurements but I know the Rural King tractors (TYM) have a very similar style loader.  Bolt on pattern for the brackets are different, but they are more than $1000 cheaper than one from Massey (agco).  A little fabrication and maybe it will work.  Just brainstorming ideas though.


You may find someone on tractor by net who has already done this conversion/fab.


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## salecker (Mar 30, 2022)

Bad LP said:


> Well it’s a compact not a sub but buying tires isn’t to be taken lightly. Here is what 4600 bucks looks like on my rims that had R1’s.
> In round numbers that’s 1/7 of the cost of the machine.
> 
> 
> ...


Thats nuts to spend that kind of money on tiny tires
I can by new tires for my 426 Cat backhoe and have $$ left over for that money.


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## salecker (Mar 30, 2022)

Ashful said:


> I'm not sure how this translates to 5 mph show pushing machines, but one thing I learned driving light pickups on big tires (and then displayed exceedingly well driving a dually), is that narrow tires are key in snow at on-road speeds.  Those old army Jeep guys knew a thing or two, I guess.
> 
> The wide tires just plane atop the snow, while narrow tires bite thru to the asphalt beneath.  I wonder how that translates to a tractor doing 5 mph, but I suspect it does.  I'm noting the relatively narrow profile of your rears, as compared to a R3, and wondering if that's part of why they're recommended for snow duty.


The smaller the contact patch the better the traction
The smaller the contact patch the more pounds per square inch,which sucks in soft conditions like mud,
The one reason mudders are usually big and wide.
I have 2 950's each on different size tires, one is taller and skinny tires,the other lower and fat.You can see the difference in different surfaces,each with pro's and con's
Another difference is bias and radials. The radials will out dig the bias on most surfaces.


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## duramaxman05 (Mar 30, 2022)

walhondingnashua said:


> It actually has the 4 quick connect fittings on the right foot deck in front of the hydro pedals and a joystick ready to go.  I haven't done any measurements but I know the Rural King tractors (TYM) have a very similar style loader.  Bolt on pattern for the brackets are different, but they are more than $1000 cheaper than one from Massey (agco).  A little fabrication and maybe it will work.  Just brainstorming ideas though.


You could try to find a bushhog, westerndorf or other aftermarket loader too.


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## Ashful (Mar 30, 2022)

salecker said:


> Thats nuts to spend that kind of money on tiny tires
> I can by new tires for my 426 Cat backhoe and have $$ left over for that money.


"Tiny tires"?  You might want to double-check your numbers, salecker.  The tires on that tractor are likely larger than the Cat 426.

The stock tires on LP's Deere 4720 are 8-ply 13.6-28, or 51.6 diameter x 13.6 width.  The stock tires on your Cat 426, which you're somehow implying is much larger, are also 8-ply and actually of smaller to equal diameter...  at 50.6 - 52.0 inches, (depending on options).  The CAT tires are a bit wider, but I believe tractor tire pricing is more dependent on diameter and ply count than width.


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## Ashful (Mar 30, 2022)

duramaxman05 said:


> You could try to find a bushhog, westerndorf or other aftermarket loader too.


I briefly had in my stable a Deere 750 with a Johnson loader.  It fit, a prior owner did the hard work on that, but removing it was a full day project.  It made it basically impossible to use the tractor for anything other than a dedicated loader machine.

The OP is in a different situation, wanting to use this tractor for mowing, among other homeowner tasks.  For this reason, I'd not even consider any loader without the following two options:

1.  quick removal, with integrated or automatic kick-stands
2.  quick-change bucket, whether JDQA or SSQA

Even though my loader is quick removal, with automatic kickstands, even that gets old and tedious.  If I'm going to spread fertilizer on the lawn with my 3-pt spreader, or run the aerator around the lawn real quick, I'll often just pull the JDQA pins and drop the 450 lb. bucket, rather than removing the loader.

If you hang around any tractor forum, you'll see countless "JDQA vs. SSQA" threads, it's their version of "cat vs. non-cat".  Well, begreen will be amazed to hear me say, "it doesn't matter".  Both systems work, the JDQA is a bit nicer but the SSQA is a bit more prevalent and sometimes cheaper, but both get the job done.  It really doesn't matter which you get, just don't make the horrible mistake of buying a pinned-on bucket, or you will hate yourself for decades to come.


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## ericm979 (Mar 30, 2022)

tractorbynet is a useful forum for tractor stuff.

Loaders are usually hard to find.  The brackets that attach to the tractor to mount the loader can be even harder to find. They are specific to the tractor and the loader.  Few people sell their loaders and even fewer sell the brackets as they can be some work to remove.

It's unlikely that anything other than the factory loader for that model will have the right stands and geometry to make it easy to remove.

The sooner you can obtain the factory loader and brackets the better.

I've not used JDQA but SSQA works fine and has the most attachments.  The larger implement companies may offer both styles for some of their attachments but the smaller ones often are SSQA only.


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## Bad LP (Mar 30, 2022)

Ashful said:


> "Tiny tires"?  You might want to double-check your numbers, salecker.  The tires on that tractor are likely larger than the Cat 426.
> 
> The stock tires on LP's Deere 4720 are 8-ply 13.6-28, or 51.6 diameter x 13.6 width.  The stock tires on your Cat 426, which you're somehow implying is much larger, are also 8-ply and actually of smaller to equal diameter...  at 50.6 - 52.0 inches, (depending on options).  The CAT tires are a bit wider, but I believe tractor tire pricing is more dependent on diameter and ply count than width.


These numbers are correct. Fronts are 8.5X16. 
These are radial tires. $$
Loaded. $$
Tubes. $$
Dismount and mount $$
Disposal. $$
Pickup, delivery was 160 miles and my labor was free. 

Most importantly; How useful is a tractor with flat or blown out tires?? 

Yesterday I moved a bunch of snow slides from my metal roof and fire pit area. Pure ice and large granduler. These tires performed flawlessly. Something unobtainium with the R1’s. I don’t think my old turfs would have done anywhere near as well.
Edit: I failed to mention that in addition to traveling at will on the ice and snow my backing up and turning area was on my dirt (mud season) driveway that only had the mornings cold crusty topping. They did not ruin that limited area. Again, something the R1’s would not do. About the same amount of disturbance as the turfs might have done. That NH 4835 was a much larger and heavier frame machine.


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## Ashful (Mar 30, 2022)

Yep... I was just comparing rears, since that's where all the money tends to go.  

I remember shopping new tires for my last tractor, all four corners.  After seeing the prices, decided the 35 year old rear tires had some life left in them, after all.


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## Bad LP (Mar 30, 2022)

Ashful said:


> Yep... I was just comparing rears, since that's where all the money tends to go.
> 
> I remember shopping new tires for my last tractor, all four corners.  After seeing the prices, decided the 35 year old rear tires had some life left in them, after all.





Ashful said:


> Yep... I was just comparing rears, since that's where all the money tends to go.
> 
> I remember shopping new tires for my last tractor, all four corners.  After seeing the prices, decided the 35 year old rear tires had some life left in them, after all.


I’m looking at 61 and mostly retired for now till I get bored. If I last another 10-15 I know my tires were a great investment.  Machine is garaged.


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## Ashful (Mar 31, 2022)

Bad LP said:


> I’m looking at 61 and mostly retired for now till I get bored. If I last another 10-15 I know my tires were a great investment.  Machine is garaged.


I had a 1963'ish Cub Cadet 123, until about 8 years ago, wearing original rubber.  Always garage kept and out of the sun, the tires never went bad.

However, I do get a kick out of people who lament, "they don't build them like they used to."  Thank God they don't.  The thing was ridiculously over-built in many needless areas, while simultaneously woefully under-engineered and poorly built in many critical areas.  It had a rear diff assembly that would last 30 years in an F250, but the gas tank fitting would break every ~100 hours of use.  The driveshaft between engine and hydro pump was so wimpy that it bent under the engine's own 12 hp.  All repairable stuff, but it needed to be, it broke so often.

Today's tractors are much better engineered, with the better among them having each component exactly as strong as it needs to be, nothing wasted and far less critical things overlooked.  Maybe you can't repair them with what you find on the shelf at the hardware store on a Sunday anymore, but you likely won't need to, either.


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## Rusty18 (Mar 31, 2022)

Ashful said:


> However, I do get a kick out of people who lament, "they don't build them like they used to." Thank God they don't.


lol I say the same thing about trucks, started out in a 1971 Mack r700.  335 Cummins, 5spd trans with a 4 spd aux trans, tandem Mack rears.  No heat, no ac, no noticeable suspension, no muffler .   But that truck is still running today...


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## Bad LP (Mar 31, 2022)

Ashful said:


> I had a 1963'ish Cub Cadet 123, until about 8 years ago, wearing original rubber.  Always garage kept and out of the sun, the tires never went bad.
> 
> However, I do get a kick out of people who lament, "they don't build them like they used to."  Thank God they don't.  The thing was ridiculously over-built in many needless areas, while simultaneously woefully under-engineered and poorly built in many critical areas.  It had a rear diff assembly that would last 30 years in an F250, but the gas tank fitting would break every ~100 hours of use.  The driveshaft between engine and hydro pump was so wimpy that it bent under the engine's own 12 hp.  All repairable stuff, but it needed to be, it broke so often.
> 
> Today's tractors are much better engineered, with the better among them having each component exactly as strong as it needs to be, nothing wasted and far less critical things overlooked.  Maybe you can't repair them with what you find on the shelf at the hardware store on a Sunday anymore, but you likely won't need to, either.


This newer stuff is not going to be repaired by the average Joe Homeowner. Computers, sensors everywhere, I’m sure there’s a bunch of multiplex wiring and other crap as well. 
I’m hoping keeping it clean so that moisture doesn’t build in the connections and dirt (mostly in the F/R pedal box) doesn’t grind away moving parts. Keeping the oils and filters fresh is easy.


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## Bad LP (Mar 31, 2022)

Rusty18 said:


> lol I say the same thing about trucks, started out in a 1971 Mack r700.  335 Cummins, 5spd trans with a 4 spd aux trans, tandem Mack rears.  No heat, no ac, no noticeable suspension, no muffler .   But that truck is still running today...


I spent some time in a B81. Truck went wherever or thru where it was pointed. My OTR Mack would just stop in the middle of a mud puddle. 😂


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## hedge wood (Mar 31, 2022)

walhondingnashua said:


> So I ended up with a 2012 GC2400 in my garage.  Everything in pretty good shape.  54" deck, R4 tires with a lot of life left on them, and the hydraulic hook ups for a loader (previous owner had a snow plow that they kept.  I'm hoping to save up a little more money and add the loader.  I'm overly impressed with how many grease zerks it has on it.  You can grease just about every moving part on it.   Before I start doing much with it, I want to change all fluids and filters.
> To start learning more about this tractor (and any other information I'll need over the years) I want to join a tractor specific forum.  As far as I am concerned, these forums are the best source of real-world information you can get.  What suggestions to people have for the best forum for me to join for my needs?  What is everyone on here using?


Glad you found a tractor. That Agco I had for years was a solid tractor. I would joint tractorby.net.  Probably won't have much luck buying a used loader. The new after market loaders are very high price.  Wanting a loader was one of the main reasons I sold the Agco and bought a Kubota with a loader. Never could find a loader for the Agco and a new loader was out of reach for price.


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## SpaceBus (Mar 31, 2022)

Bad LP said:


> This newer stuff is not going to be repaired by the average Joe Homeowner. Computers, sensors everywhere, I’m sure there’s a bunch of multiplex wiring and other crap as well.
> I’m hoping keeping it clean so that moisture doesn’t build in the connections and dirt (mostly in the F/R pedal box) doesn’t grind away moving parts. Keeping the oils and filters fresh is easy.


Younger people can handle the electronics and such, it's just old people that don't like it.


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## Bad LP (Mar 31, 2022)

SpaceBus said:


> Younger people can handle the electronics and such, it's just old people that don't like it.


Except most young people can't hold a screwdriver is my observation.


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## hedge wood (Mar 31, 2022)

Rusty18 said:


> lol I say the same thing about trucks, started out in a 1971 Mack r700.  335 Cummins, 5spd trans with a 4 spd aux trans, tandem Mack rears.  No heat, no ac, no noticeable suspension, no muffler .   But that truck is still running today...


My family had a truck stop service station and ran trucks when I was a kid the first trucks I drove burned gas. My dad bought his first diesel semi's in 1966 single axle tractors. When I went to work as a mechanic in the mid to late 70's the grocery out fit I worked for had a whole fleet of 60's mode R-600 Mack's with 237 Mack engines Mack 5 speed trans and camel back rears. Those guys ran them a thousand to two thousand miles a week. Had heat no AC. They ran those old Mack's into the late 80's early 90's. In the mid 80's I started putting some Red Dot Ac's in some of them.  We always had a couple complete rebuilt spare engines around and would swap a complete engine when we lost one or wore out one. It was a union outfit. Today you couldn't get a driver in a truck like that.


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## SpaceBus (Mar 31, 2022)

Bad LP said:


> Except most young people can't hold a screwdriver is my observation.


Neither can most old people. Rural communities have plenty of young people wrenching on modern cars and trucks, and when I lived near a city many of my friends swapped motors on modern cars with CAN BUS systems. I know many people who built their own ECU's, and the kids just now getting into cars are making their own android operating systems to control vehicle functions. Most young people are more into electronics than cars or agricultural equipment, so they would be using screwdrivers more often rather than wrenches. The tastes of people younger than you are simply different, not better or worse. 

You just don't know a lot of young people or see any that are into cars and agricultural equipment. You have a sample size error and are using that to represent millions of people across all walks of life.


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## kennyp2339 (Mar 31, 2022)

Bad LP said:


> This newer stuff is not going to be repaired by the average Joe Homeowner. Computers, sensors everywhere, I’m sure there’s a bunch of multiplex wiring and other crap as well


With company's now gate keeping info and locking computers your dam right, hence all the right to repair laws that are being shot down one by one due to campaign contributions and lobbying.


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## duramaxman05 (Mar 31, 2022)

Bad LP said:


> Except most young people can't hold a screwdriver is my observation.


That's funny you say that because it sooo true. However,  my 3 year old son knows how to use a screwdriver, ratchet, wrench and an impact. When he just started playing around with them, he would watch me working in the shop and come over and help. I told him, if your gonna use it, I'm gonna teach you the right way. I may have created a monster. Luckily I keep my snap on box locked and even when it's unlocked, he hasn't figured out how to open the drawers. He'll my dad can't get them open either. So it's a win win for me. For now anyways.


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## SpaceBus (Mar 31, 2022)

kennyp2339 said:


> With company's now gate keeping info and locking computers your dam right, hence all the right to repair laws that are being shot down one by one due to campaign contributions and lobbying.


In regards to AG equipment there is really only one guilty party in this, JD. Car manufacturers are being babies about it too, but not as bad as JD.


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## Ashful (Mar 31, 2022)

Bad LP said:


> I’m hoping keeping it clean so that moisture doesn’t build in the connections and dirt (mostly in the F/R pedal box) doesn’t grind away moving parts. Keeping the oils and filters fresh is easy.


That's one of the beauties of modern materials, you shouldn't have nearly the same trouble with electrical connections as you had with that old tin-plated crap used in your older machines.



Bad LP said:


> Except most young people can't hold a screwdriver is my observation.


I'm sometimes surprised by the utility and ingenuity of the younger generation.  They've spent less hours wrenching on bicycles and go-carts than I ever did, but they can reprogram an ECM while you're standing there and swearing at the car for not having a carburetor.

Years ago, there was a huge legal case in a neighboring county, between the Amish and the PA board of education.  The board of education was arguing that, by pulling their children out of school after 8th grade, they "weren't preparing these children to live in this world."  The response from the man representing the Amish interest was priceless, I'll never forget it.  It went something like, "we may not be preparing them to live in your world, we are preparing them to live in our world."

By the same token, I think any smart kid today will likely fare better in what's to come, than those of us comfortable in what we know about obsolete tech.


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## Bad LP (Mar 31, 2022)

Ashful said:


> That's one of the beauties of modern materials, you shouldn't have nearly the same trouble with electrical connections as you had with that old tin-plated crap used in your older machines.
> 
> 
> I'm sometimes surprised by the utility and ingenuity of the younger generation.  They've spent less hours wrenching on bicycles and go-carts than I ever did, but they can reprogram an ECM while you're standing there and swearing at the car for not having a carburetor.
> ...


I'm still willing to bet I can still make a fire engine fit into most anywhere possible and make that pump sing like a choir. Sure there are a few exceptions but that is not the norm. One of my closest friends is a Captain and I have many others who tell me the stories.  I was invited  and observed a live fire drill so I'm not talking out my butt.


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## salecker (Apr 3, 2022)

Ashful said:


> "Tiny tires"?  You might want to double-check your numbers, salecker.  The tires on that tractor are likely larger than the Cat 426.
> 
> The stock tires on LP's Deere 4720 are 8-ply 13.6-28, or 51.6 diameter x 13.6 width.  The stock tires on your Cat 426, which you're somehow implying is much larger, are also 8-ply and actually of smaller to equal diameter...  at 50.6 - 52.0 inches, (depending on options).  The CAT tires are a bit wider, but I believe tractor tire pricing is more dependent on diameter and ply count than width.


They look tiny and we were talking sub compact tractors
That comes to over $6000 canadien
I can buy rims with tires and have money to get them foam filled for that money.
I wasn't implying the tires were bigger,the machine is bigger which should have bigger costlier tires on it as the machine has more uses and heavy duty uses.


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## Ashful (Apr 3, 2022)

salecker said:


> They look tiny and we were talking sub compact tractors


Yep, the thread drifted when LP posted a picture of a decidedly not “sub” compact. 

I’d argue the Cat has fewer uses than the 4720, compact tractors are truly more versatile than any dedicated loader machine.  But it doesn’t matter, I get your point.  The tires being shown there  are far from the norm, in terms of CUT tire pricing, they at the high end of the range.


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## shoot-straight (Apr 10, 2022)

Had a used jd 855 for many years. Was ok, upgraded to a used kubota bx2200 w a loader. Smaller tractor,  but I love it. Never knew how much I needed a loader till I got one. Couple of notes- green parts are absurdly expensive, the ones I've purchased for my kubota have been very reasonable. In fact, many times folks buy aftermarket stuff to save some money. Example would be hydraulic lines. Heck the Oem ones are cheaper than what I could get them made for. 

Dealer proximity is key for parts.


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## Ashful (Apr 11, 2022)

shoot-straight said:


> green parts are absurdly expensive, _when the age of the tractor is more than 24 years _



I fixed your statement.  The age of the parts from Deere is in direct proportion to the number of years the tractor has been out of production.  The 855 is an antique!   They’re actually quite reasonable for newer machines, by comparison.


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## duramaxman05 (Apr 11, 2022)

John deere parts are no more expensive than. Kubota or new holland or anyone else. All parts are high. Hell even cub cadet mower parts as high or higher than deere.


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## Ashful (Apr 12, 2022)

duramaxman05 said:


> John deere parts are no more expensive than. Kubota or new holland or anyone else. All parts are high. Hell even cub cadet mower parts as high or higher than deere.


True 'dat.  I did spend more on some parts for my Cub Cadet 123 than the same function on my Deere 855.

What's really hitting @shoot-straight 's wallet is the age of the machine.  All manufacturers increase the cost of parts on very old machines, as the cost of manufacturing them in dwindling volumes and the cost of carrying that stock for decades goes up.  The 855 was designed 40 years ago, and started shipping in 1986.  It was a decent tractor for it's time, but it's time was more than 30 years ago.  Just thank your lucky stars that Deere still makes every darn part to service such an old machine, as most wouldn't.

In some cases, particularly if you own an early model (eg. 1986 version of the 855), the repair path has a requirement to upgrade other surrounding parts to the later variants, which can add a lot of cost.  This happened to me once with a front axle casting, the fixed part of a 4wd steering knuckle.  Th part was originally $200, but at 30+ years past production had gone up to $600 something.  Unfortunately, my variant was unique to the 1986 model, changed in 1987.  To replace my casting, I'd have had to replace several other surrounding castings (essentially entire front axle assembly).  Thankfully, there's enough Deere 2nd hand parts dealers out there to usually avoid these scenarios.


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## kennyp2339 (Apr 13, 2022)

One of the most important things I think I do is keeping the machine as clean as possible, greasing it and checking my fluids religiously. I didnt really know better until I watched a youtube video but always check your front axle oil, especially when doing a lot of fel work, if you have low oil you can break very expensive parts very easily due to heat from the additional weight, I checked mine and it was low. Another thing to do is find a dealer sticker on the machine (if there is any) and call them, ask them what brands of fluids (types and weights) they use so you can just stick to adding what they've been putting in.


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## Ashful (Apr 14, 2022)

I pick a weekend in January to go thru all of my OPE.  The zero turn and CUT are the big ones, but everything gets at least an oil change, fuel filter, and grease, unless it hadn’t been run the prior year.  Every manual has a table of frequency for maintenance, and I keep a spreadsheet for all of my machines, which flags me according to the schedule in each manual, and tells me which fluids and filters to order in advance.  Pretty quick and simple to plow thru a dozen machines in a weekend, when all the material is on hand and organized.


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## begreen (Jun 6, 2022)

auripod said:


> There are several variants of tractors that meet specific tasks and requirements. Compact tractors are ideal for heavy gardening and tasks such as digging, transporting or plowing large gardens, fields and pastures. Subcompact tractors have sufficient power and versatility to perform a wide range of gardening tasks, including mowing, moving and processing gardens. Try to purchase high-quality siromer tractors, which, I am sure, will greatly simplify your work. After all, with the help of them, you can significantly speed up the work process.


Where are you posting from? Are they sold in the US?


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## Ashful (Jun 6, 2022)

auripod said:


> There are several variants of tractors that meet specific tasks and requirements. Compact tractors are ideal for heavy gardening and tasks such as digging, transporting or plowing large gardens, fields and pastures. Subcompact tractors have sufficient power and versatility to perform a wide range of gardening tasks, including mowing, moving and processing gardens. Try to purchase high-quality siromer tractors, which, I am sure, will greatly simplify your work. After all, with the help of them, you can significantly speed up the work process.


Great commercial!  Now, back to your scheduled program.


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