# Gas Insert for Cast Iron Coal Insert



## dflee30 (Jan 30, 2011)

I have a 1906 home with an original Monarch cast iron coal burning insert. I would like to keep the coal burner in place to maintain the original look and feel of the home, but I would like to install a ventless, natural gas log insert. I am not concerned with heating he home. I am really just going for ambiance. I would however like to feel the warmth when sitting in front of it with my family. I am finding conflicting information as to whether or not I can do this safely.

The monarch dimensions are:

11" deep

19" wide at front
14" wide at rear

12" high at rear
17" high t cemter
19" high at front

It has an ash drop to the basement. It has ashes in it so it was probably used to burn wood or coal at some point. The last owner never used it so it has been out of commission for at least 9-10 years. I have included 3 pictures of the unit.

I am looking at the Peterson Oak Valley 16" vent-free gas log set in either 9,500 or 20,000 BTUs (http://www.fireplacesnow.com/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=33284). Positioned all the way to the front of the unit I think I just meet the minimum clearance requirements for the unit. I have several questions:

1. Can I safely operate a vent-free natural gas log set within the existing coal unit? If no, what are the reasons?
2. Can I operate without venting?
3. Do I need to have the chimney swept?
4. Should I go with the 9,500 BTU or 20,000 BTU set for this setup?

Thanks in advacne for any help you can provide.


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## jtp10181 (Jan 30, 2011)

I do not think any pro will recommend doing that. I do not know anything about coal inserts, nor much about vent free. All I can say is that it sounds scary.


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## Install fire 1 (Jan 30, 2011)

Pull out the coal burner and put in a valor portrait direct vent unit with a windsor arch faceplate. This set up will get you safety, warmth, effeciency as well as the look you are after as you can get a coal effect fire instead of logs.

Vent right out the back or use the chimney (co-linear).


Not likely to fit anything in the coal frame. Don't deal with vent free, but personally feel they are not very safe and tend to be very finicky.

If they dont run 100%, you get a lot of toxic by-products in your home.


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## pyrotom (Feb 1, 2011)

1. There is nothing designed to fit INSIDE of your existing baskets. Something like that would have to be tested for each application, and there is too much variation in the old cast iron styles.

2. If the room is of adequate size, (and not a bedroom), you may install an unvented set of gas logs, but they have to be installed in a working "solid fuel burning" (wood or coal) fireplaces or an "approved ventless enclosure" according to the ANSI listing for unvented gas logs/heaters Z21.11.2. Unless you have had a certified chimney inspect your chimney and tell you that you can burn coal in those fireplaces (which I doubt, since most of the chimneys of that era are unlined), you will have to bring those fireplaces up to code before installing gas logs. 

3. You should have your chimney swept and inspected to verify the above. A certified sweep should be able to tell you what is necessary to make you fireplaces legal, if that is possible.

4. I would install the largest thing that will fit the requirements, because the flame looks terrible on the 9500 BTU set. However, despite your calculations, I don't think the smallest of the Peterson Valley Oak logs fits of the fireplace if installed properly. They cannot be recessed down into the coal grate.

We do a good deal of work in 19th century homes where coal burning fireplaces are common. I'm afraid the only "simple" solution is the Valor Portrait insert mentioned above: http://www.valorfireplaces.com/products/portraitseries.php 

One other suggestion I can make is to see if you might be able to remove the existing grate and fit the Burley electric coal basket:http://www.burleyfires.com/product.php?cid=1&rid=3

And, finally, there is one other thing you can try that doesn't fall under any codes. Alcohol fuel. We have a burner that is 15 1/2" wide x 6 1/2" deep x 4 1/4" high that you might be able to drop into your grate (I'd suggest mocking it up with cardboard to try it out). Frankly, the installation requirements are very loose and they are not governed by any building codes, so you're in uncharted waters. If you might consider that option take a look here at the VFBURN XL: http://www.blackandstone.com/vioflame_product.html 

I know that none of these are really acceptable solutions to someone who want to keep the vintage cast iron appearance on their fireplaces, but try to appreciate that the codes and regulations are for your protection. In many of the homes we visit, the homeowners simply clean up the old baskets and put flowers or coal in them for decoration.

Best wishes on finding a solution you can live with.


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