# Hybrids



## chrisasst (Sep 27, 2012)

So I am thinking about getting a hybrid, I have read many articles for and against the savings. Most of these articles are from years past.  I was hoping that I could get some updated info here if any of you have the newer models (2010 + ) . I have read that the toyota prius is the best one as far as MPG.  As of right now my wife and I spent roughly $350 - $400 a month on gas. She cost the most because she drives back and forth to school which is about 30 miles one way, which is some highway, some city.   So I am going to say she spends have the $ of the gas each month. She mainly drives a 1999 pontiac grand am. So in my mind, the $200 in gas she uses would pay for a car payment. I know there would be some gas bought.  I just don't know the mainteance cost, etc of these cars.  So looking for some updated info on these cars if any one has one.


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## onion (Sep 27, 2012)

I cannot speak to hybrids since I don't have one.  However, when I was looking to replace my Camry last year I looked at hybrids and decided on a Honda fit instead.  I drive 80 miles a day commuting and I am easily easily getting 40+ mpg with it.  It's a very basic car but nice enough and about half the $$s of a Prius with as good or better mileage as many get in a Prius and I picked up 5 8' 2x4s in it the other day


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## jeff_t (Sep 27, 2012)

$200 ain't gonna make a Prius payment. If she needs a new car, then it's something to consider. But like onion said, there are other high mpg options that make more sense, dollar-wise, when you consider purchase price.

I'll keep driving my 33 mpg '02 Saturn till it don't go no more.


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## velvetfoot (Sep 27, 2012)

My MINI Cooper gets 40 mpg, is made by BMW, and is pretty sporty.  The hatch is pretty square and can fit a pretty good amount of stuff in it with the seats folded down.  It would be nice to get 50 mpg though.


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## gmule (Sep 27, 2012)

I would not buy a hybrid I would lease it and the lease would not be any longer than the warranty on the power train to avoid any potential out of pocket un-covered major expenses such as battery replacement etc.

You can still buy a lot of gas for the grand am for what a payment on a hybrid will cost you. Not to mention that you would also have to carry full coverage insurance too.


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## begreen (Sep 28, 2012)

We got a Prius in 2006. Heard lots of negatives here about it. But the car remains rock solid and virtually maintenance free. Since then in Seattle the Prius population has exploded. Why? Low maintenance and high mileage transportation, with the taxis leading the way.


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## gmule (Sep 28, 2012)

begreen said:


> We got a Prius in 2006. Heard lots of negatives here about it. But the car remains rock solid and virtually maintenance free. Since then in Seattle the Prius population has exploded. Why? Low maintenance and high mileage transportation, with the taxis leading the way.


 That is good to hear. I have read that brakes last for 100k miles due to the regeneration motors slowing the vehicle.


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## TheMightyMoe (Sep 28, 2012)

There will be a lot of bias in a post like this. I am very cheap. You didn't include her current estimated MPG.

Things to consider:

Will maintaining that older vehicle, be cheaper then purchasing a new vehicle that will require maintenance? (You'll be saving 300-400 monthly and another $50-100 for insurance compared to buying a new car?) Even if you half your 200$ dollar gas bill, your saving 100$ to pay another 400) I drive a 88 and spend maybe $300-400 a year maintaining it, much better then the womans $300 monthly car payment. With the money I save I'll be able to pay for a new transmission / engine / gasoline when the time comes.

For "many" people maintaining a older car that is getting around 20 MPG is gonna save you in the short and long run. Even if you gain 30 MPGs, you have to overcome the initial purchase of a 20-30k vehicle or save 8500 gallons of fuel. Which requires driving between 200-300k miles.

After the warranty expires on something like that, I have no personal experience on the expected costs of maintenance.

This is all just opinion, with a little math. The fact is, if the woman wants a new car, your decision is made.


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## jebatty (Sep 28, 2012)

My '97 Camry 4-cyl went 240,000 miles before I sold it, and it never needed a brake job. My current '07 Camry 4-cyl is at 105,000 miles and no brake job; and it gets 34-35 mpg on the highway. I will consider a hybrid or all electric when it comes time to replace the '07, but at 20,000 miles/yr it will probably be another 7-8 years before it will be time to sell it. Have had Camry's since 1986 and never have had a more problem-free car.


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## Lighting Up (Sep 28, 2012)

Yep a catch 22.. Here's what I see going on in the industry, Hybrid could be the way to go depending on your driving habits....gas will never get below $3.50 again IMHO. I see alot of them with being in the business, idealy the person with driving habits at 30-40 miles a day will get the most out of one never needing to fill up.

Cons are the batteries, even though they are coverd for 8 years (I believe only new and depends on the Manufacture) after 8 years is right now the unknown, how much longer will they last ?  I know second warranty companies will not warranty them so the $3000-$4000 dollar question is...how much longer will the batteries last?  That is being watched in the industry right now as many are getting to that age and will be resold as used. Owners of them are trading them in because they don't want to take the risk.
md


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## WES999 (Sep 28, 2012)

I Don't have a hybrid but I was in the same situation you are. I drive 600-700 mi/week.
I was spending around $500-$600 on gas per month.
Last week I bought a 2011 Ford Fiesta, rated 38MPG ( one of the highest mileage non hybrid cars), paid about 11K.
The Prius gets 48MPG and costs about 22K, If you drive 25K mi/yr the difference in fuel cost is $850.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov
It would take almost 13 years to before you would see a payback. It does not seem to make economic sense to me.


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## granpajohn (Sep 28, 2012)

We did some ROI calculations at work a few years back. We chose a Honda Civic because it came in both hybrid-electric and the more mundane gas version. The car is about the same except for the drivetrain. I "think" we used $3.50/gal gas price...don't fully recall. We used EPA MPG numbers; (a mistake perhaps). Base on our calcs, the hybrid breaks even on cost at about 450,000 miles; based only on fuel costs/savings. This makes the rather broad assumption that the price of parts and maintenance is the same for both.

It is difficult to compare a Prius because it only comes one way.

If you want to see what my friend  Bob (an admitted genius) has become completely consumed with, click here:

http://www.aprs.org/APRS-SPHEV.html
Even he admits that the reason for running an electric car is not economics.

But, as always, I say if you like it, buy it.


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## chrisasst (Sep 28, 2012)

Thanks guys for the feedback. I can get a 2009 toyota prius from my dealer for $16,000.  One of my bosses has a prius and I talked to him today. He says he gets about 45-48 mpg on highway, and 54 mpg in city. He said he also before got about 65 mpg when he did nothing but drive in the city.  I know $200 won't pay a monthly payment but that $200 + for the gas savings is a good chunk that could go towards a payment. Also my grand am need replacing.   I have read that toyota backs the battery with like a 100,000 mile or 8 year warranty or something like that. IDK, still researching my options I guess.


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## midwestcoast (Sep 28, 2012)

Satisfied owner of a 2006 Prius here. IMO maintenance costs are a big plus for the Prius. 147,000 miles on mine. Still getting 48-50mpg. Recently had to replace the water pump. Had a front brake job at about 135,000 miles due to rotors beginning to de-laminate, not due to wear. It lives outside on a partly gravel&grass driveway.  Tires, light bulbs & oil changes are the only other maint/repair it's had.  Hybrid batteries have all proved to be very reliable and the replacement costs have come down a lot in case you are one of the very few who ever have to replace it. Plenty of used batteries from wrecked cars around now.
Every car is different of course, but there's no reason to be scared of hybrid technology now. It's solid & has been for many years.
Payback also depends on what kind of car you need or want to drive.
Oh and I can fit 10' lumber in the Prius, hatch closed, vs 8' in my teeny Scion XA. Prius is our family road-trip vehicle, lol.


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## velvetfoot (Sep 29, 2012)

Good info.  Is it relatively sporty-ish to drive?.  It looks sharp, in my opinion, and hasn't gotten old looking.  Can't figure out the different body styles now though.


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## chrisasst (Sep 29, 2012)

velvetfoot said:


> Good info. Is it relatively sporty-ish to drive?. It looks sharp, in my opinion, and hasn't gotten old looking. Can't figure out the different body styles now though.


 
yeah, there's what, 5  different prius's now...


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## greg13 (Sep 29, 2012)

If it's MPG you want, find an old Rabbit DIESEL . Something else to consider Who other than the dealer can even get detailed repair information let alone is trained to work on a Hybrid? Hand onto your wallet there too!!


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## begreen (Sep 29, 2012)

velvetfoot said:


> Good info. Is it relatively sporty-ish to drive?. It looks sharp, in my opinion, and hasn't gotten old looking. Can't figure out the different body styles now though.


 
No, it's not sporty-ish to drive. If you have good tires on it (I changed out the stock tires right away) then it handles decently, but it's a Toyota and they go for plain vanilla handling. The all electric steering is pretty dead for road feedback.

Toyota is very conservative with their cars. The hybrid battery is underrated and only uses partial capacity to favor longevity. With cabs pulling 200-300K regularly on these cars I wouldn't fret about battery life.


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## midwestcoast (Sep 29, 2012)

Sporty-ish is not a word I would use to describe a Prius 
It's comfortable & handles fairly well, but you are not gonna give your passengers whiplash when you put the pedal down. It does have enough power for driving on fast freeways...
I guess the 2010 & newer have a bit more HP. 

Yeah, the stock tires on mine were crap. I wore them out before changing, couldn't believe the difference with a decent set. 

Don't be too scared of costly dealer repairs. Any good mechanic can work on the majority of the car. A repair on the hybrid system would need a dealer visit.


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## thinkxingu (Sep 30, 2012)

Haven't seen it mentioned, so I'll throw in my $.02.  My wife is also a teacher and drives 30 miles one-way.  We bought a Nissan Versa 5-door with a bunch of toys for just around $12K.  Gets 37 mpg reliably and, I think, is a whole lot sportier looking and driving (we got the cvt, which is like a go-cart) and has much more room.  You should check it out if you're serious about buying a new car.

S


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## backpack09 (Oct 1, 2012)

I have been under the impression that the benefits to the prius and any other hybrid, is that running on electric at slow speeds (city driving) is what makes it worth it. If you are driving mostly on the highway, in gas mode anywase, why carry around 500lbs of battery, when a fiesta/smart/golf/mazda2/wildfire will get similar mileage without the $5k+ premium.

Wildfire


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## chrisasst (Oct 1, 2012)

thinkxingu said:


> Haven't seen it mentioned, so I'll throw in my $.02. My wife is also a teacher and drives 30 miles one-way. We bought a Nissan Versa 5-door with a bunch of toys for just around $12K. Gets 37 mpg reliably and, I think, is a whole lot sportier looking and driving (we got the cvt, which is like a go-cart) and has much more room. You should check it out if you're serious about buying a new car.
> 
> S


 
well, I just found a 2007 Prius for 12,999.   63k miles.  My question is this and it is puzzling me...why does a 2007 prius list the MPG as 60 city, 51 hwy.  But a new one, lets says 2009 list as 48 city, 45 hwy?  One would think the newer the car the better, but no..


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## midwestcoast (Oct 1, 2012)

07 Prius was the same as an 09 as far as I know. The model changed in 2010. New model is rated for slightly (like 1 or 2 mpg) better mileage.


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## velvetfoot (Oct 1, 2012)

I'm pretty sure that during that time period EPA changed its testing procedures.  Also, begreen noted they had more power now, but I can't see Toyota sacrificing mpg on a car like that.


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## granpajohn (Oct 1, 2012)

velvetfoot said:


> I'm pretty sure that during that time period EPA changed its testing procedures. Also, begreen noted they had more power now, but I can't see Toyota sacrificing mpg on a car like that.


Popular Mechanics magazine investigated this, and I hope this link is correct, but not certain. (I read the hard copy version.):
http://www.popularmechanics.com/car...ruth-we-put-40-mpg-claims-to-the-test-6651300
Basically...the EPA method is not consistant. Also, I seem to recall the (rather high) numbers they come up with are used for CAFE averages. Then they are computed down to the published number which is closer to real world.


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## jharkin (Oct 1, 2012)

EPA changed the test procedure in 2008. The new version of the test is run with the air conditioner on and with harder acceleration and a few other changes. The old test was completely unrealistic (hw test was run at 45mph with granny like acceleration), the new one is slightly unrealistic.  If you go to the epa fuel economy website they give adjusted ratings for older cars that are 10-20% lower than what was published on the old test.

There was also a change to how horsepower numbers are calculated and published a few years earlier (05 or 06). The old system underrated accessory loads.


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## TMonter (Oct 1, 2012)

velvetfoot said:


> My MINI Cooper gets 40 mpg, is made by BMW, and is pretty sporty. The hatch is pretty square and can fit a pretty good amount of stuff in it with the seats folded down. It would be nice to get 50 mpg though.


 
But the Mini is hard to find good mechanics for and is relatively expensive to fix. I'd go for a used Honda Civic or Toyota Corolla and end up with a total bill for the car around 6-9k depending on the year and save the rest of the money for gas. Both cars are rock solid, last well beyond 250k miles and have a very low cost of ownership. Some of the most expensive repairs on a Civic or Corolla can be less than the battery pack on a hybrid.


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## velvetfoot (Oct 1, 2012)

95,000  miles on my 2008.  Had to replace a leaky water pump.  Do the Civic and Corolla still come with rear drums standard?  What does rock solid mean?  My MINI is built solid, more so than the Civic or Corolla.  I know a guy that had to have 4 automatic transmissions replaced on his Acura.  Then there's this tidbit: http://news.yahoo.com/honda-expands-north-american-recall-over-600-000-142655633--finance.html


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## TMonter (Oct 1, 2012)

velvetfoot said:


> 95,000 miles on my 2008. Had to replace a leaky water pump. Do the Civic and Corolla still come with rear drums standard? What does rock solid mean? My MINI is built solid, more so than the Civic or Corolla. I know a guy that had to have 4 automatic transmissions replaced on his Acura. Then there's this tidbit: http://news.yahoo.com/honda-expands-north-american-recall-over-600-000-142655633--finance.html


 
The Acura isn't the same thing. There are no equivalent cars from Acura to a Civic and none from Lexus to a Corolla. I'm guessing it was a late 90's or early 2000's Acura? Likely between a 1999 and 2004 I'm betting.

Nothing wrong with the Mini but the base model is around 22k and 26k for the 'S' version and repairs on average are double that of the equivalent Corolla or Civic. It's just finding someone that works on a Mini and doesn't charge an arm and a leg because there are so few comparatively is tough. (I have a friend who owns one).

Compare that with 16.5k and 18.5k for the Corolla or Civic.

As for rear drums, I'm not sure, but for a small high MPG car rear drums are fine if you aren't going to hot-rod it and I know both the Civic and Corolla have 4 wheel disc on the upper models.

6-8k in cash buys a lot of gas, 60k miles worth if you drive conservatively.

Minis have had their share of recalls too, the difference is they sell a lot more Hondas or Toyotas compared to minis here in the US.

http://money.cnn.com/2012/01/16/autos/mini_cooper_recall/index.htm

If the goal is a high mileage car that will be reliable and have a low cost of ownership, it's hard to go wrong with a Civic or Corolla unless you happen to get one that's been severely mistreated.


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## begreen (Oct 1, 2012)

chrisasst said:


> well, I just found a 2007 Prius for 12,999. 63k miles. My question is this and it is puzzling me...why does a 2007 prius list the MPG as 60 city, 51 hwy. But a new one, lets says 2009 list as 48 city, 45 hwy? One would think the newer the car the better, but no..


 
Your local terrain, driving habits and average temps will determine mileage. In a 2006 Prius we get about 47mpg with local short trip, up and down hill driving and about 55mpg on the freeway if I don't push it over 65.


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## TMonter (Oct 1, 2012)

begreen said:


> Your local terrain, driving habits and average temps will determine mileage. In a 2006 Prius we get about 47mpg with local short trip, up and down hill driving and about 55mpg on the freeway if I don't push it over 65.


 
Any planned/unplanned maintenance yet on the Prius BeGreen? (besides oil changes and tires of course)

Also when you replaced tires did you put the low rolling resistance tires back on it? I like the Prius as an idea but potential repair costs should something big go wrong worries me.


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## begreen (Oct 2, 2012)

None other than a cabin filter that some mice made a nest on  . I put on Goodyear ComfortTreads. They can handle higher inflation levels and worked out well without adversely affecting mileage.​


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## TMonter (Oct 2, 2012)

begreen said:


> None other than a cabin filter that some mice made a nest on  . I put on Goodyear ComfortTreads. They can handle higher inflation levels and worked out well without adversely affecting mileage.​


 
But over-inflating tires also causes improper wear. If you want even wear, typically you don't inflate more than 35 pounds.


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## MasterMech (Oct 2, 2012)

velvetfoot said:


> 95,000 miles on my 2008. Had to replace a leaky water pump. Do the Civic and Corolla still come with rear drums standard? What does rock solid mean? My MINI is built solid, more so than the Civic or Corolla. I know a guy that had to have 4 automatic transmissions replaced on his Acura. Then there's this tidbit: http://news.yahoo.com/honda-expands-north-american-recall-over-600-000-142655633--finance.html


 
Those trans issues were limited to the tiptronic automatic anyways.  My FIL blew through 3 of them (he's rough on cars regardless, drives like it's a competition) on an '01 TL in 100K miles.  My Dad's GF has replaced the one in her CL as well.  Problem is documented and well-known.



TMonter said:


> But over-inflating tires also causes improper wear. If you want even wear, typically you don't inflate more than 35 pounds.


 
Depends on the tire, the load, and the terrain, not just the inflation pressure.  Leave the rear tires on your truck at 35 lbs and load up with firewood (or whatever) and see how even those tires wear. 

IIRC, "Fuel Saving" tires are designed to inflated to higher pressures and use stiff compunds/construction to reduce rolling resistance.


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## jharkin (Oct 2, 2012)

velvetfoot said:


> 95,000 miles on my 2008. Had to replace a leaky water pump. Do the Civic and Corolla still come with rear drums standard? What does rock solid mean? My MINI is built solid, more so than the Civic or Corolla. I know a guy that had to have 4 automatic transmissions replaced on his Acura. Then there's this tidbit: http://news.yahoo.com/honda-expands-north-american-recall-over-600-000-142655633--finance.html


 



MasterMech said:


> Those trans issues were limited to the tiptronic automatic anyways. My FIL blew through 3 of them (he's rough on cars regardless, drives like it's a competition) on an '01 TL in 100K miles. My Dad's GF has replaced the one in her CL as well. Problem is documented and well-known.


 

When he says rock solid in the context of lasting 200k+ he is talking about solid in long term reliability, something most all Japanese makes excel at. The Mini, like most German cars is very solid in fit/finish and initial build quality, something the Germans obsess over. Reliability is not their strength though statistically. The Mini does better than most other Bimmers but a glance at the consumer reports and true delta reports tells me I'd never ever want to live with the Average Audi, VW or BMW past warranty. Not if I valued my sanity.

As far as the Honda transmission issues. Yup they are a problem. But keep in mind the perspective, on a Honda its a disaster is 3 or 4 cars per 100 sold have the issue. Whereas on a 5 series or A6 you have about almost a 50/50 change of things like bad coil packs, injectors, blown water pumps, leaking sunroofs,etc past 5 years. One of my close buddies is a diehard Audi guy, but every one hes ever owned stranded him at least once, his latest A6 wagon has stranded him 3 times.

BTW, "tiptronic" transmissions only come in Porsche's


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## jharkin (Oct 2, 2012)

TMonter said:


> The Acura isn't the same thing. There are no equivalent cars from Acura to a Civic and none from Lexus to a Corolla. I'm guessing it was a late 90's or early 2000's Acura?
> .


 
The 02-06 RSX,  aka 4th gen Integra, was Civic platform based, I still drive a type S as my commuter car, nice little 30mpg go cart with the big motor and 6 speed.  The new upcoming ILX is also Civic based.


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## jharkin (Oct 2, 2012)

Back to the topic at hand, Ive been thinking about this a lot lately myself. We need to trade my little Go-Cart for a mid size family hauler that can take 2 car seats and all the gear travelling 2 year olds need. We want something comfortable, needs to be auto for the Mrs. and I want fun to drive.

I do want to be as economical/environmental as I can.

But on the other hand I'm also a diehard car guy. Owned only stick shifts my whole life, used to go to limerock a couple times a year with my dad and take road trips to Indy for the F1 race. My idea of a "sporty" daily driver is a 3 series, an Infinity, a Mustang V8 with snow tires 

So what to do.

I will say I am intrigued by the upcoming Ford Fusion Energy plug in. But it will be a snore to drive and its probably going to be priced close to 40. for a lot less money (30-32k) I can get the Fusion Titanium. Now we are talking at 240hp and a shiftable 6 speed and AWD, but still breaking 30mpg highway. Most likely will still cost more in the long run but unless gas stays at $4 or higher it might take 5+ years to brake even.

Taking the thinking a bit further I can take that money, go buy a 3 year old used 3 series or Infiniti G (maybe 25k), spend the leftover cash on the extra gas and probably still come out ahead if gas doesn't go to 6 bucks.

Most likely I will lean towards the Ford or something like an non-hybrid Altima. Keep some fun while still going in the right direction for gas milage. And feeling guilty while I actually enjoy my drive to work.


OR something happens and gas hits 6 bucks by the spring in which case I will certainly be first in line to buy a hybrid. In this space a modestly optioned non-plugin hybrid Fusion is probably going to be the winner cost wise.


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## TMonter (Oct 2, 2012)

MasterMech said:


> Those trans issues were limited to the tiptronic automatic anyways. My FIL blew through 3 of them (he's rough on cars regardless, drives like it's a competition) on an '01 TL in 100K miles. My Dad's GF has replaced the one in her CL as well. Problem is documented and well-known.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
I realize that, just pointing out that the comfortread he put on his Prius isn't the low rolling resistance tire. I'm kind of curious at what the MPG difference would be between a standard and low resistance tire in MPG.


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## TMonter (Oct 2, 2012)

jharkin said:


> Back to the topic at hand, Ive been thinking about this a lot lately myself. We need to trade my little Go-Cart for a mid size family hauler that can take 2 car seats and all the gear travelling 2 year olds need. We want something comfortable, needs to be auto for the Mrs. and I want fun to drive.
> 
> I do want to be as economical/environmental as I can.
> 
> ...


 
I've been keeping an eye on the new Subaru Imprezas myself.


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## firefighterjake (Oct 2, 2012)

TMonter said:


> I've been keeping an eye on the new Subaru Imprezas myself.


 
Same here . . . and I see the Legacys now have the CVT transmission with a bump up in power over the Imprezas.


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## velvetfoot (Oct 2, 2012)

There's a pretty big Prius now that still gets good mileage.
I too have noticed worse mileage when I changed tires on my MINI to another brand.


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## begreen (Oct 3, 2012)

TMonter said:


> But over-inflating tires also causes improper wear. If you want even wear, typically you don't inflate more than 35 pounds.


 
That would be typical in some cases, that's why I got these tires. The stock Goodyear Integras were at the same pressure. So far it appears that they are not overinflated at 42lbs. After 30K miles the wear has been quite even with regular rotations.


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## jharkin (Oct 5, 2012)

firefighterjake said:


> Same here . . . and I see the Legacys now have the CVT transmission with a bump up in power over the Imprezas.


 
What interested me about the ford is, on paper, the titanium AWD trim had more power than the 6 cylinder Legacy with better fuel economy than the 4 cylinder Legacy.  Pricey though, no doubt.

If Subaru can pull off a 6 cylinder Legacy or WRX @ 30mpg highway I will determinately look at it.  If Im giong to deal with 25mpg I'd just as well spend the same money and buy a used G37x....


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## TMonter (Oct 5, 2012)

jharkin said:


> What interested me about the ford is, on paper, the titanium AWD trim had more power than the 6 cylinder Legacy with better fuel economy than the 4 cylinder Legacy. Pricey though, no doubt.
> 
> If Subaru can pull off a 6 cylinder Legacy or WRX @ 30mpg highway I will determinately look at it. If Im giong to deal with 25mpg I'd just as well spend the same money and buy a used G37x....


 
Although Ford has gotten a lot better in recent years I would have reservations about the long term reliability of the Ford over the Subaru.


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## gregbesia (Oct 5, 2012)

+1 on Toyota being rock solid,               http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=b-tCCeNSwrs


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## jharkin (Oct 5, 2012)

TMonter said:


> Although Ford has gotten a lot better in recent years I would have reservations about the long term reliability of the Ford over the Subaru.


 
I know... Im trying to be open minded to brands this time... But at heart ive always been a Honda guy. I'll probably drive a whole bunch and end up just buying an Accord

hows that for turnaround.  I change my mind more often than the mrs.


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## begreen (Oct 6, 2012)

I'm partial to Hondas also. We seriously considered a Civic Hybrid but the inability to fold down the rear seat was an issue.


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## burnham (Oct 7, 2012)

jharkin said:


> I know... Im trying to be open minded to brands this time... But at heart ive always been a Honda guy. I'll probably drive a whole bunch and end up just buying an Accord
> 
> hows that for turnaround. I change my mind more often than the mrs.


 
 We just bought a '13 Accord last week. Has the v-tech 4 cylinder and is an automatic.  The wife loves it so far.  It's getting a little over 30 mpg, mixed driving.  We traded in an '08 G35x which was getting closer to 20 mpg.  We test drove the Legacy (we had one for five years and had great luck with it) but I didn't care for the way the car drove.  The CVT transmission and boaty ride killed the car for me, it drove like a 1972 John Deere sno-mobile.


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## WES999 (Oct 7, 2012)

I have had very good luck with Fords, My Ranger wood-hauler has over 320K on it and is still running OK.
The Ford escort I had went over 250K.

I have been driving my Fiesta for a little over a week now and am quite happy with it. It is a nice little car.
It is getting 42 MPG. My gas bill should be be cut in half or more.


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## boatboy63 (Oct 7, 2012)

My personal opinion is that hybrids are fine, but over priced. If you haven't already, check into a Chevy Cruze ECO. There are many people who are hitting just shy of 50 mpg highway with a 1.4 turbo. You can get into a new one for around $20k, or even cheaper considering the 2013's just came out. They have sporty handling and are one of the highest safety rated cars on the road. Rumor has it, they are supposed to come out with a diesel version later this year that will nearly double the torque of the engine and keep the mpg around the same.

If you want to do research on what people really have to say about their actual vehicles, go to http://home.autos.msn.com/default.aspx These are actual owners of the cars. It also has detailed information about repair history and common issues that happen with a specific car. That is the site I always go to do my homework before buying.


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## WES999 (Oct 7, 2012)

> My personal opinion is that hybrids are fine, but over priced.


 
I recently read an article in Design News that Toyota is coming out with a RAV 4 EV.
http://www.designnews.com/author.as...id_318,aid_244906&doc_id=244906&page_number=1

You can buy one for only $49,800
I think I would just hire a chauffeur.


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## gfreek (Oct 28, 2012)

We have a 2011 Prius, wife drives to work, 90 mi round trip, avg 50mpg.  The "07 Rav4 was a killer on gas 24mpg..So far its been a good car,  however occasionally there is a issues of rough running on cold start, runs smooth on restart usually,  and there is TSB on that.  Already changed motor mount, but that didn't cure it of course.. Next is re-vamped intake manifold...  Toyota is aware of the issue, but of course dealer never heard of this issue...Sad when you have to show them copy of the TSB..


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## jonwright (Oct 28, 2012)

Do the math. Most folks buy a hybrid not for economic reasons but rather a statement. 

That's ok. Just isn't one based on math. 

The slower you drive, and the more you sit in stop and go traffic the more favorable a hybrid is.


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## xman23 (Oct 29, 2012)

My 2006 Prius has 128 K 1st tire change at 75 K, wish I did them sooner as the Michlin have a much better ride. No brakes yet. Only one issue, a water devirter valve, lost the heat. I understand it was a chronic problem.
Love the car.


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## begreen (Oct 30, 2012)

jonwright said:


> Do the math. Most folks buy a hybrid not for economic reasons but rather a statement.
> 
> That's ok. Just isn't one based on math.
> 
> The slower you drive, and the more you sit in stop and go traffic the more favorable a hybrid is.


 
That's pretty old news. The Prius is totally common here. Most cabs are going to them too. No status in that. Just plain practicality.


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## boosted3g (Nov 1, 2012)

We have a 2010 prius and an 08 civic and both get good milage.  The prius is built far better than the civic though.  One thing to consider also if resale value.  A toyota will have outstanding resale value so when you calculate its true cost to operate it is far less that most vehicles on the road.  I work at a car dealer and can tell you from experience that if its not a toyota or a honda some wholesalers wont even come give a trade in appraisal on it.  If i tell them its a camry theres a fight over who is going to get it.  If your easy on the gas and drive the prius like what some guys call "hypermiling" 70+ mpg can easily be obtained.  Ive done it but most of the time im in too big of a hurry.  When i drove from PA to the outerbanks for vacation this year i averaged 56 mpg and while just cruising around the island i averaged 81 mpg but i never went over 45 mph.  There is a display on the dash that lets you know when the electric motors are ending and the gas engine takes over.  I just cruise around at just below that set point or about 40 mph.


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## chrisasst (Nov 4, 2012)

Ok guys, OP here.... I ended up buying a 2009 prius about a month ago. My wife has been driving it to college about 35 miles one way.  No matter how she goes, it is up and down hills. She is getting about 47/48 mpg.  Roughly 400 miles on a tank of gas.  We were getting about 220 miles per tank with the grand am we had.  
I am driving a dodge caravan to work at about 5 miles one way. I spent more on gas with the van, then we spent with the prius with her driving 30 miles extra one way per day. We are driving the same number of days..


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