# econoburn outdoor boiler



## curtis (Dec 6, 2012)

Im new here to the forum but have been looking on it for some time now. I have a homemade outdoor boiler that sucks up too much wood and puts out to much smoke. There is a dealer for econburn boilers near me and i happend to be able to check one out and was pretty impressed. The guy there told me i could get an indoor unit and put it in a small wood shed to save some money. I dont really want to do that and would just rather put the outdoor model up by itself with no extra buildings. My house is roughly 2000sq ft and i have  heat exchanger in my forced air furnace and a side arm heat exchanger on my dhw.  Im thinking that the 150k btu outdoor model would work for me. Does anyone here have and outdoor model econoburn that would share soem insight on it for me. Also with regards to extra storage i was told that with having forced air that it isnt really worth it, plus the econoburns say they do not need it to run.


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## wantstoburnwood (Dec 6, 2012)

I have an indoor model eb-150  My house is 2700 sq ft and there is lots of heat to heat my house as well as 24x28 garage. No heat storage


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## EffectaBoilerUser (USA) (Dec 6, 2012)

I would highly recommend that you look seriously at water storage with any wood gasification boiler. The high end Lambda controlled wood gasification boilers such as Effecta and Froling require the use of storage as they are not allowed to cycle. Doing so produces too much emissions and thus does not meet the government standards. When a wood gasification boiler is allowed to cycle it will smolder and produce emissions. In the last fall and early spring this happens quite a bit and thus the boiler is not nearly as efficient and clean burning as when it is gasifying. 

The use of water batteries (water storage) allows the boiler to be in full gasification mode the entire 5 hour burn cycle. I live in East Jordan, MI and have an Effecta 35kW boiler connected to 2 x 500 gallon stacked propane tanks and am able to do (1) 5 hour burn per day and provide heat to my home, hot tub and hot water for 24 hours.

Yes, manufactures will tell you that storage is not required if their boiler is allowed to cycle. However, when in idle/smoldering mode the gasification boiler becomes an OWB.

Im not sure where your located but would be more than happy to show you my Effecta boiler system.


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## mikefrommaine (Dec 6, 2012)

EffectaBoilerUser (USA) said:


> The high end Lambda controlled wood gasification boilers such as Effecta and Froling require the use of storage as they are not allowed to cycle. Doing so produces too much emissions and thus does not meet the government standards.



So now boilers are prohibited by the 'government' from idleing? Better not tell the wood gunners.


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## BoilerMan (Dec 6, 2012)

Mike, theirs don't idle.......they go out............and have those little elves to relight.

TS


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## mikefrommaine (Dec 6, 2012)

Oh actually I just realized he said "cycle" I guess I'm ok. 

It's only a matter of time before the 'government' starts rounding up the wood guns and there illegal cycle timers. Good news though, I'm sure effecta boiler user/sales guy would be happy to sell one of those snazzy effecta's.


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## mikefrommaine (Dec 6, 2012)

^^^
I've got to stop typing, in too much of a bad mood!


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## Grovenburg (Dec 6, 2012)

I looked hard at outdoor gassers before I bought my indoor Econoburn.  After using mine without storage for two months, I'm hooking up storage this weekend.  Without storage it idles and burns.  The dry wood smolders to ash much more quickly than I thought it would.  The firebox is too small on mine to last more than 5 hours so if I'm not around I have to light 2 fires a day (one first thing in the am = pain in the rear).  I just think storage is the ultimate goal of a gasser, plain and simple.  I bought my system used and got a 550 gallon storage tank with it.  I'm just hoping it is enough so I only have to burn once a day.  Good luck.


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## curtis (Dec 6, 2012)

I live in Boyne City so im just down the road from you Effectaboileruser, so are you guys saying that with the storage i could lite a fire in the boiler in the morning and just let it run out and then do the same the next day? Having to start a new fire everyday seems like it would be a pain to do although i know it would save alot of wood. And do the water storge systems work well with forced air heat exchangers? I was told that the water temp has to be pretty close to 180 degrees for the forced air to work well.


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## maple1 (Dec 7, 2012)

curtis said:


> I live in Boyne City so im just down the road from you Effectaboileruser, so are you guys saying that with the storage i could lite a fire in the boiler in the morning and just let it run out and then do the same the next day? Having to start a new fire everyday seems like it would be a pain to do although i know it would save alot of wood. And do the water storge systems work well with forced air heat exchangers? I was told that the water temp has to be pretty close to 180 degrees for the forced air to work well.


 
That's what I do - except I burn in the evenings. Yes, I have to build a new fire every day - or day and a half. That's a big change from my old unit where I only built a fire once, sometime in October, and it is a bit of a PITA - but I'd rather build a fire every evening than have to feed the boiler every two hours all day, stumble down stairs before I was awake to feed it way too early in the morning, and stay up too late at night to get that one last feed in to try to make it through the night. Plus burning (and cutting & stacking & splitting & hauling) way less wood than before, and throw in the warmer house, and I can likely live with building a new fire every day.

I can't comment on the HX question - but I've got slant fin baseboard that is supposedly a high temp emitter, and I'm getting adequate heat out of it down to 150.


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## Grovenburg (Dec 7, 2012)

curtis said:


> I live in Boyne City so im just down the road from you Effectaboileruser, so are you guys saying that with the storage i could lite a fire in the boiler in the morning and just let it run out and then do the same the next day? Having to start a new fire everyday seems like it would be a pain to do although i know it would save alot of wood. And do the water storge systems work well with forced air heat exchangers? I was told that the water temp has to be pretty close to 180 degrees for the forced air to work well.


 
I've got forced air and it works great from 130 degrees up.  The air out of the vents is HOT.  Much better than the propane.


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## goosegunner (Dec 7, 2012)

Grovenburg said:


> I've got forced air and it works great from 130 degrees up. The air out of the vents is HOT. Much better than the propane.


 
I have the similar experience with my forced air coil for temp range Can heat down to about 130. The air from registers is cooler than at 180 of course but it will heat at lower temps, the fan runs longer.

It really depends on the coil you can fit in your furnace. The larger the coil the better it will use lower temp. I put in the largest pre made coil I could find, some here have had custom 5 pass coils made.

My lp furnace is 65,000 btu, I put in a 115,000 btu coil.

gg


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## curtis (Dec 7, 2012)

Besides using old propane tanks, wich i couldnt get down into my basemnent. What is out there for storage tanks? And do u pressurize the tank inline with the boiler or use an unpressureized tank with the copper coils?


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## goosegunner (Dec 7, 2012)

Curtis,

Things to consider with outdoor vs indoor.

1. Gasifiers function best with really dry wood. If you have an outdoor boiler it would be best to have a wood storage area close to the boiler that would keep all wood free from rain and snow. Tarps are a pain and would probably be difficult to keep gasifier wood water &ice free.

2. Cleaning a outdoor boiler is not much fun.

3. If you ever intend to go way from an outdoor boiler you need to have some one fire it our run glycol to keep from freezing. Indoor boilers even in a small building can be heated with a backup source to keep the building from freezing. If you install your underground piping below the frost line you can travel or shutdown your boiler as you see fit.

Small indoor building where you can store a week or so worth of wood is a nice warm well light place to tend to a boiler on a cold winter day. 

gg


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## maple1 (Dec 7, 2012)

Propane tanks are used in a pressurized system. If you want to go with coil & non-pressurized, your storage options might widen some. You could get a kit & liner to build one yourself using lumber if you wanted.

Are you sure you can't get propane tanks in? They come in all sizes. 110 gallon ones are something like 30" diameter & 4ft tall, would be a lot easier to get some of those in place rather than one bigger one if your space is limited. Then just plumb them together. Air compressor tanks have also been used.


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## curtis (Dec 7, 2012)

ok, so maybe an outbuilding with a indoor unit would be the way to go with enough room to put 1000 gallon storage. Another question i have is econoburn sells two models, one is asme certified and the other isnt. I have been told that in michigan i need the asme and also been told i dont because of the 30psi relief pressure. Does anybody know for sure?


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## rkusek (Dec 7, 2012)

curtis said:


> ok, so maybe an outbuilding with a indoor unit would be the way to go with enough room to put 1000 gallon storage. Another question i have is econoburn sells two models, one is asme certified and the other isnt. I have been told that in michigan i need the asme and also been told i dont because of the 30psi relief pressure. Does anybody know for sure?


 
Not for sure about the ASME requirement in Michigan but I don't think they require that anywhere except possibly in a few places on the east coast.
My HX draws off boiler water down to about 100 (when the aquastat drops out) and the register output is about the same as my heat pump puts out (lukewarm).  So if can live with lower register temps and longer fan run times it's not a big deal.  This is actually more comfortable to live in than the old school hot-cold-hot-cold forced air world IMHO.  The performance of your HX matters too so oversized is better like others have stated.  Mine is nothing special, bought from CozyHeat online.  Your heat load and level of insulation will make a big difference too.

I think an insulated outbuilding big enough for the boiler, 1000 gal storage, and a cord of wood would be ideal.


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## curtis (Dec 7, 2012)

And it looks like you can get a EKO-40 with an install kit from cozy heat for almost half of what a econoburn unit goes for. That would leave me with enough money to buidl a building and have the storage tank.


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## mikefrommaine (Dec 7, 2012)

curtis said:


> And it looks like you can get a EKO-40 with an install kit from cozy heat for almost half of what a econoburn unit goes for. That would leave me with enough money to buidl a building and have the storage tank.



Many happy eko users here have done just that.

I know I wouldnt be happy with an outdoor gasser. How would I be able to stand there admiring the gassification flame without freezing?


One thing to keep in mind when looking at boilers is the flue size. Some are 7 or 8" which means a more expensive chimney if you don't already have it in place. In my case the cost savings of a 30'  -- 6" class a vs an 8" chimney paid for the difference between a biomass and eko. In a shed assuming you only need a short chimney there won't be a huge price difference between 6 and 8".


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## goosegunner (Dec 7, 2012)

curtis said:


> And it looks like you can get a EKO-40 with an install kit from cozy heat for almost half of what a econoburn unit goes for. That would leave me with enough money to buidl a building and have the storage tank.




If you are worried about UL listing or ASME, I don,t believe eastern European boilers have either.  Heaterman would be in the know about what's needed in Michigan.

gg


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## mikefrommaine (Dec 7, 2012)

Eko's are UL, CSA, C.A. and TUV listed. Not ASME.

 If you have an agreeable code enforcement office the TUV listing might be enough. I believe it's the European equivalent to asme.


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## wardk (Dec 8, 2012)

curtis said:


> I live in Boyne City so im just down the road from you Effectaboileruser, so are you guys saying that with the storage i could lite a fire in the boiler in the morning and just let it run out and then do the same the next day? Having to start a new fire everyday seems like it would be a pain to do although i know it would save alot of wood. And do the water storge systems work well with forced air heat exchangers? I was told that the water temp has to be pretty close to 180 degrees for the forced air to work well.


I  got a Hx from OFS rated at 160000 btu which the OFS rep told me was at 175 degrees, The hx still produces useable heat even at 120 just not 160000 btu.


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## Armaton (Dec 8, 2012)

If you email OFS (outdoor furnace supply) they will send you a spec sheet of the exchanger you are interested in. Mine didn't have any literature when I received it, so I just asked for it and he sent it to me. Gives gpm and water temps needed for the different blower cfm, if I remember correctly.


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## Armaton (Dec 8, 2012)

Here is a copy of mine.


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## Grovenburg (Dec 9, 2012)

curtis said:


> ok, so maybe an outbuilding with a indoor unit would be the way to go with enough room to put 1000 gallon storage. Another question i have is econoburn sells two models, one is asme certified and the other isnt. I have been told that in michigan i need the asme and also been told i dont because of the 30psi relief pressure. Does anybody know for sure?


 
Had my install inspected a month ago.  He never looked for a sticker, just interested in the chimney and aquastat.  You shouldn't have a problem.


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## curtis (Dec 9, 2012)

Are you in michigan grovenburg?


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