# Cooking and heating in Colonial America



## begreen (Aug 13, 2012)

I read a good article this morning on Colonial fireplaces. It's interesting to see how ideas developed over time.

http://colonial-american-life.blogspot.com/2009/08/early-american-fireplaces-and-cooking.html

I spied a great old cast iron stove in this article. Had to research that a bit and came up with an interesting history story on the Buzaglo stove too.
http://www.history.org/foundation/journal/winter09/cold.cfm

Abraham Buzaglo stove:
http://twonerdyhistorygirls.blogspot.com/2010/02/keeping-warm-buzaglo-stoves.html


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## Flatbedford (Aug 13, 2012)

Nice summer reading.


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## Pagey (Aug 13, 2012)

Looking at some of those fireplaces makes me appreciate even more the technology we have in today's stoves.  Frozen water and ink in the house?  Pass on that, for sure!


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## begreen (Aug 13, 2012)

Growing up in CT, my wife experienced this as a young girl one cold winter morning and finding her goldfish frozen in the bowl. The goldfish survived, but she will never forget that. They were poor and could not afford fuel.


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## Swedishchef (Aug 13, 2012)

Amazing read BG! Great.

That's quite the amazing story about the water of the goldfish bowl freezing!! That reminds me of a friend of mine: I believe I am a fair amount younger than most on this forum....this friend is my age. In high school she used to have to BOIL WATER  OVER A FIRE to have a hot bath in the morning. Her father was a modern day Tinker and they had no electricity at their house...and this was 20 years ago! She turned out amazing and regrets nothing to this day...

Andrew


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## fishingpol (Aug 13, 2012)

Nice articles.

I've read local history books where 20+ cords were need for early colonial homes for a winter.  Pots of water were kept in front of the hearth ready for cooking and washing up.



If anyone is interested in colonial cooking, check out  "Jas. Townsend and sons" on Youtube for colonial cooking recipes and techniques.  The videos are well done and very informative.


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## begreen (Aug 13, 2012)

I just quoted this book in the other thread. Put it on order (used) together with the one on Revolutionary Americia. They look fascinating.

http://www.amazon.com/Colonial-Amer...qid=1344902122&sr=1-12&keywords=Thomas+Purvis


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## BrotherBart (Aug 13, 2012)

Swedishchef said:


> In high school she used to have to BOIL WATER OVER A FIRE to have a hot bath in the morning.


 

Dang. My family hasn't had to do that since 1956.


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## BrotherBart (Aug 13, 2012)

Like my sig says. "The good old days, weren't"


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## begreen (Aug 13, 2012)

That's for sure. They didn't trust water so they drank beer all day long then switched to the good stuff near sunset. Sounds awful.


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## fossil (Aug 13, 2012)

A long ways from Colonial America, in both time and distance, but even after the westward expansion and settlement of the west, wood was the fuel du jour.  This factoid concerns the steamboats that ran up and down the Columbia River (out here in BeGreen's & my PNW country):

"Most steamboats burned wood, at an average rate of 4 cords an hour. Areas without much wood, such as the Columbia River east of Hood River, required wood to be hauled in and accumulated at wood lots along the river; eventually provision of fuel wood for steamboats itself became an important economic activity."

From this article:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steamboats_of_the_Columbia_River 

Four cords/hour   These boats went about 4 mph, so they were getting *~ 1MPC* (miles Per Cord).  

This is a boat named "Mascot" wooding up on the river (probably the lower Columbia), circa 1900.


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## begreen (Aug 13, 2012)

Yep, cheap energy is what this country was built on. It's still out there, as wind, sun, tidal and geothermal energies. We just need to be thinking leaner and smarter.


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## BrotherBart (Aug 13, 2012)

Well heck. The boats now run on nukes. My electric utility needs one of those suckers that runs a sub.

On the colonial times note, if you visit Colonial Willamsburg you will notice that the cooking took place in a building behind the main house. And that the slaves lived in the quarters above the kitchen. Not saying that they were thinking about if the joint burned down but...


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## fossil (Aug 13, 2012)

BrotherBart said:


> Well heck. The boats now run on nukes. My electric utility needs one of those suckers that runs a sub.
> 
> On the colonial times note, if you visit Colonial Willamsburg you will notice that the cooking took place in a building behind the main house. And that the slaves lived in the quarters above the kitchen. Not saying that they were thinking about if the joint burned down but...


 
Well, you'd need about a dozen submarine plants to get up to the capacity of a stationary plant.  

I found both Colonial Williamsburg and Mt. Vernon to be fascinating.  Actually, I found a lot of stuff in that area to be fascinating.  Just like the times I spent in Newport RI.  We just don't have any stuff that old out west.  Old to us is the 19th century.


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## BrotherBart (Aug 13, 2012)

When we first moved here my wife was some kind of tour guide for Williamsburg. Everybody we knew, and some we didn't, came flying in and she drove them down for the tour. Me, I just used to go to a bar next to William and Mary when I was stationed at Ft. Eustis because they didn't ask for ID. History buff that I am.


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## firefighterjake (Aug 14, 2012)

begreen said:


> That's for sure. They didn't trust water so they drank beer all day long then switched to the good stuff near sunset. Sounds awful.


 
During colonial times apple cider was consumed as the main beverage with meals because water was often unsafe for drinking.[45] Ciderkin, a slightly alcoholic beverage made from cider pomace, could also be found on colonial tables. Sometime after Prohibition the word _cider_ came to mean unfiltered, unfermented apple juice.  . . . Wikipedia. Alcohol: A Social and Cultural History, Mack P. Holt.

http://www.essortment.com/hard-apple-cider-history-41713.html

http://www.woodchuck.com/about-us/history-of-cider.html

Perhaps one of the best (but apparently dated) internet sources on the demise of cider in the colonies . . . a long read, but kind of interesting to see how our culture switched to beer as the beverage of choice.


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## Flatbedford (Aug 14, 2012)

firefighterjake said:


> kind of interesting to see how our culture switched to beer as the beverage of choice.


 
...and then to Moxie in Maine!


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## BrotherBart (Aug 14, 2012)

The tradition is maintained.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/14/usa-whitehouse-beer-idUSL2E8JEIDQ20120814

Those "Founders" would be proud.


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## begreen (Aug 15, 2012)

There'll be a lot of buzz about that brew for sure.


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## fossil (Aug 15, 2012)

I barley know what to say.  This could have vat implications.  My hops are that all goes well.


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## jharkin (Aug 24, 2012)

BrotherBart said:


> Well heck. The boats now run on nukes. My electric utility needs one of those suckers that runs a sub.
> 
> On the colonial times note, if you visit Colonial Willamsburg you will notice that the cooking took place in a building behind the main house. And that the slaves lived in the quarters above the kitchen. Not saying that they were thinking about if the joint burned down but...


 
Great thread that I missed!!


The houses in Virgina had another reason besides the "labor" force to build the kitchen as a detached building. Due to the hot summers and mild winters, they wanted to keep the heat out of the main house. Its the same reason that end wall chimneys are common in the south, and the windows tend to be a lot bigger.

Up north the houses were often built with central chimneys and the kitchen in the main house close to or under the bed chambers to conserve warmth. In larger wealthier homes, and especially into the 1800s when stoves start to appear you sometimes see houses with a back "ell" addition that have two kitchens - the winter kitchen in the original spot on the back side of the first floor of the main house, and a secondary "summer" kitchen in the ell - again this was to keep the heat of the cooking fire away from the living quarters in the hot summer months.


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## Ashful (Aug 24, 2012)

Here in the mid-Atlantic, separate summer kitchens were the norm, from at least the early1700's.  No one wanted a fireplace cooking in the house in July.  I've also noticed the fireplaces in summer kitchens are often larger and better equipped than the fireplace in the main house, so maybe they still used those summer kitchens for big holiday meals and baking year 'round, only cooking smaller daily meals in the house.

Another feature often noticed is the low doorways on interior kitchens, sometimes claimed to be made that way because "people were shorter back then," or because "you were supposed to bow when entering a room."  It was really just to keep any smoke from escaping the kitchen, into the rest of the house.


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## BrowningBAR (Aug 24, 2012)

Yes, the room that the 30 is going in used to be the Summer Kitchen. Which was just a big fire place, a roof, and usually at least one wall missing so it was more open.


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## Ashful (Aug 24, 2012)

I've seen a few that were more open, as you describe, but just as many (or more) that were enclosed on all four walls. A few of the houses we shopped actually had stone summer kitchens, although many were less substantial wood structures.

It's often claimed by owners of old houses that their summer kitchen was built before the house, and that the family lived there before constructing the main house, but these claims are almost always proven untrue. I suspect summer kitchens just ended up being more simple / crude structures, since they weren't considered part of the public space. Just as few of us today put marble tile in our shed, no one but the owner of the house and the help ever saw them.

My avatar was the summer kitchen of our house. The "new" Jotul 12 is going in what would have been the main kitchen.


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## Redbarn (Aug 25, 2012)

Joful said:


> It's often claimed by owners of old houses that their summer kitchen was built before the house, and that the family lived there before constructing the main house, but these claims are almost always proven untrue. I suspect summer kitchens just ended up being more simple / crude structures, since they weren't considered part of the public space. Just as few of us today put marble tile in our shed, no one but the owner of the house and the help ever saw them.



  Just have to jump into this thread.

  We have a 1810's farm house, the youngest on our road. Our house was researched for the National Register of Historic Places and the history is well documented. We are the only 5th family to own the house. Our neighbors are 10th generation owners of the same property and our other neighbors, only the 3rd family, have the original deed on parchment, signed by the representative of William Penn.

  Our settlement sequence was that the land was cleared first, a rudimentary wood hut was believed to be built, then the barn was built (circa 1795). After a few harvests,  a small stone building (with 24" thick walls), was built next to a large spring.  This became the Summer Kitchen. A stone cistern was built around the spring to form a pool of easily accessible water. After the family prospered, the main house was built and subsequent generations added to it.

  The Summer Kitchen has 3 levels. The main floor and the earth floored basement have huge open hearth fireplaces. The basement has a door which is a short carry to the spring and appears to have been used as a laundry. A huge open wood fire must have boiled water. 
   The first floor was used as a Summer Kitchen. There are reliable stories of a post holding a bell that was used to summon workers to the summer kitchen for meals. 
   The upper level has a staircase to what were bedrooms. In all likelihood, the founding family lived there before the main house was built. Certainly, there are nails, hooks and graffiti that indicate that this was used as sleeping quarters, probably until well into the late 1800's. 

  There were few mortgages in those days and so our main house was built in stages over circa 5 years. The roofers scratched their names and the date on the roof truss timbers, indicating structural completion.
   It amazes me that given the size of the fireplaces and the huge open fires that must have been set in them, that Summer Kitchens never burned down. Ours is now used as a shed but is in remarkable condition. Old growth timbers do last well.


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## firecracker_77 (Aug 25, 2012)

Redbarn said:


> Just have to jump into this thread.
> 
> We have a 1810's farm house, the youngest on our road. Our house was researched for the National Register of Historic Places and the history is well documented. We are the only 5th family to own the house. Our neighbors are 10th generation owners of the same property and our other neighbors, only the 3rd family, have the original deed on parchment, signed by the representative of William Penn.
> 
> ...


 
As others have pointed out, those old fireplaces had enormous appetites too.  Great story.


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## begreen (Aug 25, 2012)

Our family goes back 13 generations in the US. Several of the original houses still remain in use from the early to mid 1700s. I also saw the fireplace in the basement + kitchen above in one house. The explanation I was given was that they lived in the basement during the brutally cold winters and migrated upstairs when outdoor temps warmed up.

The books arrived. They cover from early 1600s to 1800 with an amazing collection of facts and data. The books are broken down into sections on climate, native Americans, the economy, population, diet, religion, govt., the colonies and cities, prominent Americans, education, arts, science, technology, architecture, popular life, recreation, crime, and experiences.

In the section on pre-Revolutionary War houses the author indicates that the average home was quite small and simple. The average size was around 300 sq ft. They consisted typically of 2 rooms with a loft over one section. Their construction depended on the locale. Early New England homes were built stronger and with better foundations than say the Chesapeake area homes. In the later, stone or brick foundations didn't appear until about 1710. As foundations improved so did the sturdiness and size of the homes being built. 500-550 sq ft became the norm in the early 1700's.

Here are a couple floorplans, one of an early home like the Lutkins house pictured, and the other of a saltbox design that became common in New England.


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## Redbarn (Aug 25, 2012)

For anybody interested in books, in 1988, a local Township did a 250 year anniversary book of the Township.

This is still available on amazon.com

http://www.amazon.com/History-Towns...8-1988/dp/0974094986/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

This book delves into great detail on early families and taxables, historic architecture, the Schuylkill and Union Canals, mills, schools, and churches amoung other things. It also addresses the relatively newer aspects of the area and local business that were active during the first printing for the 250th year celebration of its founding.


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## Redbarn (Aug 25, 2012)

Found a picture of our Summer Kitchen in local history book.




The exterior was "plastered" with a sand cement mix with horsehair as the binder. Has stood the trest of time well.
Only a single room on each floor. The fireplaces (hearths) are inglenook size and take up about 1/3 of their walls.


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## Ashful (Aug 25, 2012)

Great job at documentation!  In what town is this house?  The barn in your avatar looks like one I used to see on Upper Stump Road, near Dublin, PA.

When I was young, and most of my grandparents generation was still alive, my family still owned many farms in the family for generations, one since 1692 for which we had the original Penn's grant, signed 1726.


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## firecracker_77 (Aug 25, 2012)

begreen said:


> Here are a couple floorplans, one of an early home like the Lutkins house pictured, and the other of a saltbox design that became common in New England.
> 
> View attachment 72593
> View attachment 72594
> View attachment 72595


 
I don't understand the floorplan. It looks like several hearths centrally located, but I only see one chimney on the far right side in the actual picture. How many fireplaces did that house have.


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## begreen (Aug 25, 2012)

The multi-hearth plan is for a saltbox house not shown in a picture. The house in the picture has the floorplan to the left of it, except flipped.


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## Redbarn (Aug 25, 2012)

Joful said:


> Great job at documentation!  In what town is this house?  The barn in your avatar looks like one I used to see on Upper Stump Road, near Dublin, PA.
> 
> When I was young, and most of my grandparents generation was still alive, my family still owned many farms in the family for generations, one since 1692 for which we had the original Penn's grant, signed 1726.



Don't want to hijack the thread, but there were only a small number of barn building crews in those times and they would build all the barns in an area. So many barns look the same. PA barn design did evolve over time so a barns design is a powerful method of dating its construction.

The thing that emerges from any history of this period is that the early settlers were very tough and resiliant people. As Begreen notes, they would live in a dirt floored basement near an open fire during sub zero temperatures.

One can appreciate what a major technological breakthrough the Franklin stove was.


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## firecracker_77 (Aug 25, 2012)

begreen said:


> The multi-hearth plan is for a saltbox house not shown in a picture. The house in the picture has the floorplan to the left of it, except flipped.


 
I want the multi-hearth design.


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## Treacherous (Aug 25, 2012)

firecracker_77 said:


> I want the multi-hearth design.


 

I thought that was pretty cool myself.


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## jharkin (Aug 25, 2012)

Interesting book BeGreen, thanks for the reference, Ill have to grab that for my collection sometime. That Saltbox plan is different... typically, though not always, center chimney houses have a small hallway called the passage in front of the chimney stack. The front door opened there and there would be a very steep wrap around staircase to the second floor.

Our house is a center chimney plan cape - similar to that drawing but with a small entry hall in front of the chimney and a big ell out back. The chimney base is so wide that we have a front closet that's open at the back and you can store stuff in a cavity in the chimney brickwork between the two hearths under where they join at the second floor.

What we _dont_ have however is the big kitchen cooking hearth. We do have a second chimney in the ell with kitchen hearth/ovens. We used to think that the original cooking hearth was removed to use as a flue for the steam boiler when central heat was put in... but now Ive come to suspect it might never have been there at all and the ell could in fact be original to the house and the whole shebang built a lot later than we thought - maybe as late as 1830. This is supported by 19th century cut nails we found in the main house flooring and the fact our kitchen hearth is waaay too small, probably it was used with an early iron cook stove. Either way my house is odd... we have 19th century details but also have 20+ inch floorboards and paneling that look mid 18th century... maybe salvaged.


If you like old house and colonial history books a few others Ive read and and would recommend:

http://www.amazon.com/Where-We-Lived-Discovering-Places/dp/1561588474/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1345942317&sr=8-1&keywords=where we lived
Among other things this book documents the fascinating letters written by an Englishman named Edward Perry who was stuck in New England during the revolution. He wrotea lot on daily life and tells of houses the size of my tiny Cape housing families of a dozen +.

http://www.amazon.com/Building-History-Northern-New-England/dp/1584650990/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1345943157&sr=1-1&keywords=building history northern new england
Excellent history of how house construction evolved in the Northeast. Written by the first curator of Strawberry Banke museum in NH.

http://www.amazon.com/Big-House-Little-Back-Barn/dp/1584653728/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1345943201&sr=1-2&keywords=big house back house
This is about ME/NH/VT farmhouses. Has an interesting history of how they were often added on over time and how things like summer kitchens evolved.

http://www.amazon.com/Homebuilding-Woodworking-Colonial-America-Illustrated/dp/1564400190/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1345943321&sr=1-1&keywords=woodworking colonial america
The earlier books covered why things where done, this one if fascinating if you want to know how it was done and the way carpenters worked and the tools they used back then.

http://www.amazon.com/Antique-Houses-Their-Construction-Restoration/dp/0525242295/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1345943497&sr=1-1&keywords=antique houses their construction and restoration
This book is really a restorers manual but the first few chapters are of general interest talking about the history of how houses evolved. Lots of great floor plans like BeGreen found and it shows how houses evolved from one room to two, to two over two, capes, colonials, saltboxes, colonials with a leanto and how to tell the difference between a true saltbox and a leanto addition, etc.

Ive got lots more but the rest are mostly restoration guides and I probably overloaded this thread already!


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## begreen (Aug 25, 2012)

House designs also varied regionally. There is a big difference in some saltboxes in MA vs RI for example. In RI lime was more plentiful and strong. They did a variation on the saltbox called the stoneender. The house was characterized by a solid stone wall end, typically on the north side to block the winds. This also held the chimney and main fireplace. Here's an example:

lemence-Iron_House_Johnston.21950541_std.jpg

For lots of great shots and plans of old homes, check out this website. The Thomas Clemence house (stoneender saltbox) is under Rhode Island homes. 

http://www.loc.gov/rr/print/list/100_tim2.html


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## Redbarn (Aug 26, 2012)

begreen said:


> For lots of great shots and plans of old homes, check out this website. The Thomas Clemence house (stoneender saltbox) is under Rhode Island homes.
> 
> http://wwKw.loc.gov/rr/print/list/100_tim2.html



Interesting that Pennsylvania was missing from the list of States with timber frame houses. All the other 13 original colonies, except the Carolinas, are listed. There many, many stone houses in PA. Must be some timber frame houses that survived or merited mention.


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## Ashful (Aug 26, 2012)

I've owned several timber-framed carriage barns in PA, and have been in a few timber-framed houses, albeit much later Victorians.  I've never been in an early timber-framed home in PA, but I do know of at least one, which is a private residence.

Some of the timber framed barns I've owned were originally set with the sill plates directly on the dirt, and would've rotted long ago, if not for the actions of previous owners to preserve them.  A town where I used to live had a timber framed carriage barn behind every house, each containing an outhouse, and several of them were sinking into the ground for this reason.  Others seem to have their sill plates set on a few courses of stone, which either originally or due to age, are now below grade - with the same results.

Reading old deeds and records, it's amazing how many houses and buildings must have been built and razed in this area over the last 350 years.  We see these beautiful old stone houses, and criticize our modern construction for being something less, but I believe "common" homes were at least as poorly built 200 years ago as they are today.  They're just not standing anymore.  What's left are the few exceptional examples built by more wealthy families.  One wonders which of todays houses will still be standing and desirable 200 years from now.

... and to keep OT, they were all heated by wood!  Some of the poorest and earliest examples with nothing more than a fire pit and a hole in the roof.


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## Redbarn (Aug 26, 2012)

This Franklin stove, invented in 1741, was the Insert of its day.
Anybody got one ? Anybody seen one ?


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## firecracker_77 (Aug 26, 2012)

Redbarn said:


> This Franklin stove, invented in 1741, was the Insert of its day.
> Anybody got one ? Anybody seen one ?


 

For some reason I pictured a woodstove as a Franklin Stove. It's still an open fireplace?


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## Redbarn (Aug 26, 2012)

firecracker_77 said:


> For some reason I pictured a woodstove as a Franklin Stove. It's still an open fireplace?



Me too but check out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_stove


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## firecracker_77 (Aug 26, 2012)

Redbarn said:


> Me too but check out:
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_stove


 
hahah..I immediately went to google and it sent me to Wikipedia too.  So the trick with this thing was it had a hollow chamber which captured some heat and released it out into the room. That and it had a switchback to re-direct air before sending it up the chimney similar to a masonry furnace.


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## Billybonfire (Aug 26, 2012)

Redbarn said:


> This Franklin stove, invented in 1741, was the Insert of its day.
> Anybody got one ? Anybody seen one ?


 
Still in production over here, made by Stovax -
http://www.stovax.com/stoves/traditionalstoves/wood__multi_fuel_stoves/regency_stove.aspx


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## begreen (Aug 26, 2012)

It functions as an inverted siphon. Looking at the original design my first concern was draft reversal. As I read on, it looks like this was an issue.

_"Franklin's stove sold poorly.[19] The problem lay with the inverted siphon: the smoke had to pass through a cold flue (which was set in the floor) before the smoke could enter the chimney; consequently, the smoke cooled too much and the stove did not have a good draft.[20]. The inverted siphon would operate properly only if the fire burned constantly so that the temperature in the flue was high enough to produce a draft."_


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## firecracker_77 (Aug 26, 2012)

begreen said:


> View attachment 72644
> 
> It functions as an inverted siphon. Looking at the original design my first concern was draft reversal. As I read on, it looks like this was an issue.
> 
> _"Franklin's stove sold poorly.[19] The problem lay with the inverted siphon: the smoke had to pass through a cold flue (which was set in the floor) before the smoke could enter the chimney; consequently, the smoke cooled too much and the stove did not have a good draft.[20]. The inverted siphon would operate properly only if the fire burned constantly so that the temperature in the flue was high enough to produce a draft."_


 
No insulation back then.  I wonder if you didn't have modern insulation, and wanted to insulate with the materials they had at the time and the knowledge you have now, could insulation have been done?


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## begreen (Aug 26, 2012)

They had some insulation - sawdust was commonly used in ice houses to keep pond ice frozen into the summer. Dried moss also worked.


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## firecracker_77 (Aug 26, 2012)

Billybonfire said:


> Still in production over here, made by Stovax -
> http://www.stovax.com/stoves/traditionalstoves/wood__multi_fuel_stoves/regency_stove.aspx


 
That thing is awesome.  It has a swing arm with a grate for BBQ'ing right over the fire.  I bet it doesn't rob as much heat from the room as it has a smaller flue than an open fireplace.  Either way, there is something to be said for an open hearth and this one is cool


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## Flatbedford (Aug 26, 2012)

Billybonfire said:


> Still in production over here, made by Stovax -
> http://www.stovax.com/stoves/traditionalstoves/wood__multi_fuel_stoves/regency_stove.aspx


 
That's pretty much what I replaced with my Fireview.


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## Billybonfire (Aug 26, 2012)

firecracker_77 said:


> That thing is awesome. It has a swing arm with a grate for BBQ'ing right over the fire. I bet it doesn't rob as much heat from the room as it has a smaller flue than an open fireplace. Either way, there is something to be said for an open hearth and this one is cool


 
Hi Firecracker,
yes it would look great in the right house wouldnt it, knew I had seen one on the Stovax site, didnt know if you still had them in production in the US, so thought I would attach the link.

Bet they get through a fair bit of wood though !.


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## firecracker_77 (Aug 26, 2012)

Billybonfire said:


> Hi Firecracker,
> yes it would look great in the right house wouldnt it, knew I had seen one on the Stovax site, didnt know if you still had them in production in the US, so thought I would attach the link.
> 
> Bet they get through a fair bit of wood though !.


 
I'm sure it would use quite a bit. I probably wouldn't burn that everyday.  More to create an ambiance on a Saturday night or something like that.  I'd never give up a woodstove as they don't send heat up the chimney from the other parts of the home.  I really want to try the hearth cooking this year.


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## BrowningBAR (Aug 26, 2012)

Flatbedford said:


> That's pretty much what I replaced with my Fireview.
> 
> View attachment 72649


 

I looked at a few of those when I was searching for my first stove. Gotta say, I'm glad I didn't get one.


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## firecracker_77 (Aug 26, 2012)

BrowningBAR said:


> I looked at a few of those when I was searching for my first stove. Gotta say, I'm glad I didn't get one.


 
I still like it from the standpoint of an open hearth fire though.  Woodstoves are great heaters, but an open flame fireplace is good too.


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## firecracker_77 (Aug 26, 2012)

There is the option of burning a stove with the door open I guess.  I have done that.


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## BrowningBAR (Aug 26, 2012)

firecracker_77 said:


> I still like it from the standpoint of an open hearth fire though. Woodstoves are great heaters, but an open flame fireplace is good too.


 
I was looking at it only from an efficiency stand point. The old Vigilant ate enough wood as it is. That style stove would have chewed through even more wood on me.


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## firecracker_77 (Aug 26, 2012)

BrowningBAR said:


> I was looking at it only from an efficiency stand point. The old Vigilant ate enough wood as it is. That style stove would have chewed through even more wood on me.


 
I agree 100%.  I would want one of these as an occasional fire sort of thing.  A couple fires a week perhaps.  For day in and day out heating, a stove is most efficient.  Wood is expensive and hauling it, cutting it, splitting it.... Not efficient with a fireplace


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## Redbarn (Aug 26, 2012)

Still, the stand-alone Franklin principle stove has endured from 1741 to the present. A 271 year product cycle.


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## firecracker_77 (Aug 26, 2012)

Redbarn said:


> Still, the stand-alone Franklin principle stove has endured from 1741 to the present. A 271 year product cycle.


 
That thing is beautiful...especially with the arm for a pot / grill attachment.  I am already planning how I'm going to cook inside my stove this year.  That thing there takes all the dirty work out of it.


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## begreen (Aug 26, 2012)

Redbarn said:


> Still, the stand-alone Franklin principle stove has endured from 1741 to the present. A 271 year product cycle.


 
How did this more modern unit get called a Franklin stove? Functionally and physically, there is very little resemblance of this product to the original. It would appear that this became a common term applied to any fireplace sitting stove, similar to the way different brand facial tissues got know as Kleenex or all clear adhesive tapes are called Scotch tape.

_"By the late 1780’s, David R. Rittenhouse.had redesigned the stove by adding an L-shaped chimney. Quite reasonably, he called it a Rittenhouse stove. But legend has its prerogatives; the device is known to this day as the Franklin stove. By 1790, the improved Franklin stove was in wide use and became an integral piece of Americana."_

http://www.ideafinder.com/history/inventions/frankstove.htm


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## firecracker_77 (Aug 26, 2012)

begreen said:


> How did this more modern unit get called a Franklin stove? Functionally and physically, there is very little resemblance of this product to the original. It would appear that this became a common term applied to any fireplace sitting stove, similar to the way different brand facial tissues got know as Kleenex or all clear adhesive tapes are called Scotch tape.
> 
> _"By the late 1780’s, David R. Rittenhouse.had redesigned the stove by adding an L-shaped chimney. Quite reasonably, he called it a Rittenhouse stove. But legend has its prerogatives; the device is known to this day as the Franklin stove. By 1790, the improved Franklin stove was in wide use and became an integral piece of Americana."_
> 
> http://www.ideafinder.com/history/inventions/frankstove.htm


 
Agree with the analogy to Kleenex or Band-Aids as the generic name for bandages


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## Redbarn (Aug 26, 2012)

Another old idea:

"In the mid-eighteenth century Cronstedt, working together with Fabian Wrede, increased the efficiency of the wood-burning stove roughly eightfold with a new technology and invention. Their 1767 redesign of the traditional wood-burning stove directed the smoke and heated gases through long flues that wound up and down inside the stove. The stove and its flues were built of special masonry bricks that captured, and then radiated, more heat from the burning process. The new technology changed the pattern designs of large interior building space for residences and other public buildings. It allowed more rooms to be heated with the same amount of firewood.  It had significant social and economical consequences throughout Sweden and later throughout Europe and America up into the twentieth century.
Cronstedt showed how in a ceramic designed wood burning stove that much more additional heat could be captured in a heavily tiled system of five long internal flues. The innovation of his masonry stove system captured the heat from only periodic burning of wood. It would then spread out that heat over a longer period for a fairly constant temperature. Because of this it only needed to be lit in the mornings and in the evenings. This type of residential (or interior space) heating system is sometimes referred to as a kakelugn in a Swedish stove. In England and America it is called a "tile stove" or masonry stove."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Johan_Cronstedt


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## firecracker_77 (Aug 26, 2012)

Redbarn said:


> Another old idea:
> 
> "In the mid-eighteenth century Cronstedt, working together with Fabian Wrede, increased the efficiency of the wood-burning stove roughly eightfold with a new technology and invention. Their 1767 redesign of the traditional wood-burning stove directed the smoke and heated gases through long flues that wound up and down inside the stove. The stove and its flues were built of special masonry bricks that captured, and then radiated, more heat from the burning process. The new technology changed the pattern designs of large interior building space for residences and other public buildings. It allowed more rooms to be heated with the same amount of firewood. It had significant social and economical consequences throughout Sweden and later throughout Europe and America up into the twentieth century.
> Cronstedt showed how in a ceramic designed wood burning stove that much more additional heat could be captured in a heavily tiled system of five long internal flues. The innovation of his masonry stove system captured the heat from only periodic burning of wood. It would then spread out that heat over a longer period for a fairly constant temperature. Because of this it only needed to be lit in the mornings and in the evenings. This type of residential (or interior space) heating system is sometimes referred to as a kakelugn in a Swedish stove. In England and America it is called a "tile stove" or masonry stove."
> ...


 
Masonry stoves are the best...expensive to build


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## ScotO (Aug 26, 2012)

my one buddy tried to heat his house one winter with a Franklin stove.......he wasted more wood than you could even imagine in that old thing.  Benjamin Franklin's idea was revolutionary, and he had many patents if I am not mistaken (related to woodstoves).  It amazes me how every year, the technology (albeit simple most of the time) makes modern woodstoves better and better.  How much better can they get?


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## begreen (Aug 26, 2012)

I'll like them better when they load themselves!


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## ScotO (Aug 26, 2012)

begreen said:


> I'll like them better when they load themselves!


 And maybe they'll be even better still when they CUT AND SPLIT THEIR OWN WOOD!


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## firecracker_77 (Aug 26, 2012)

Scotty Overkill said:


> And maybe they'll be even better still when they CUT AND SPLIT THEIR OWN WOOD!


 
invent an advanced firewood processor with kiln drying that also load the stove.  done!


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## Redbarn (Aug 26, 2012)

begreen said:


> I'll like them better when they load themselves!



The early families had this very facility. Called Servants


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## firecracker_77 (Aug 26, 2012)

Redbarn said:


> The early families had this very facility. Called Servants


 
I have a 1 year old servant in the making.  Except, I'm her servant...so this isn't exactly working out so well.


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## jharkin (Aug 26, 2012)

I've seen real original frankin fireplaces in museum houses... never lit though. The other trick they used to do was put the stove dead center in the middle of the room and then have a verey long horizontal run to the chimney at an outside wall. If you ever go to Sturbridge look at the general store and the bank. Central placement probably heated the room a bit more even but the creosote buildup must have been a nightmare.

We know lots of these houses burned down..........


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## DianeB (Aug 26, 2012)

http://www.historic-deerfield.org/open-hearth-cooking-program

Open hearth cooking classes for those interested.

Historic Deerfield a nice place to visit, especially in the fall.


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## fishingpol (Aug 26, 2012)

jharkin said:


> I've seen real original frankin fireplaces in museum houses... never lit though. The other trick they used to do was put the stove dead center in the middle of the room and then have a verey long horizontal run to the chimney at an outside wall. If you ever go to Sturbridge look at the general store and the bank. Central placement probably heated the room a bit more even but the creosote buildup must have been a nightmare.
> 
> We know lots of these houses burned down..........


 

The Shakers were known to do that too.


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## Flatbedford (Aug 27, 2012)

Scotty Overkill said:


> my one buddy tried to heat his house one winter with a Franklin stove.......he wasted more wood than you could even imagine in that old thing.


 
We burned our Franklin style stove for the first 5 winters we lived in the house. It burned an enormous amount of wood. It was not unusual for me to reload it every 2 hours or so. If reloaded that often it made some serious heat, but couldn't do it long enough to keep the house warm. With the stove doors open, I could easily get the living room up around 90, even in single digit outside temps. I miss the massive fast heat it made, but don't miss burning a wheelbarrow full of wood in one night.
It is our outside fireplace now.


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## DianeB (Aug 27, 2012)

Flatbedford said:


> We burned our Franklin style stove for the first 5 winters we lived in the house. It burned an enormous amount of wood. It was not unusual for me to reload it every 2 hours or so. If reloaded that often it made some serious heat, but couldn't do it long enough to keep the house warm. With the stove doors open, I could easily get the living room up around 90, even in single digit outside temps. I miss the massive fast heat it made, but don't miss burning a wheelbarrow full of wood in one night.
> It is our outside fireplace now.


 How do you keep it from  rusting?


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## Flatbedford (Aug 27, 2012)

I wire wheel and paint it occasionally. If it rusts too much, I'll scrap it and find another. Stoves like this are often on Craig's List for cheap.


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## tickbitty (Dec 10, 2017)

BrotherBart said:


> When we first moved here my wife was some kind of tour guide for Williamsburg. Everybody we knew, and some we didn't, came flying in and she drove them down for the tour. Me, I just used to go to a bar next to William and Mary when I was stationed at Ft. Eustis because they didn't ask for ID. History buff that I am.



Haha Bart I just ran into this because I referred someone on a neighborhood board here in Williamsburg to Hearth and wanted to see if they had been here yet. Anyway - I bet that bar near W&M was the Green Leafe, wasn't it?


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