# Does a dead standing tree count as "seasoned"?



## 120inna55 (Jan 8, 2011)

Surely this has been addressed here previously, but search is not turning up anything for me.

So, I have several trees on my property that are still standing but have been dead for 3 or more years.  Does this qualify as seasoned?


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## cmonSTART (Jan 8, 2011)

In my experience, sometimes yes, sometimes no.  You never really know until you fell, buck, split, and measure the moisture content.  What kind of trees?


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## mywaynow (Jan 8, 2011)

My understanding is that standing dead like oak and elm needs 1 year to season.  Very little drying is done across grain.  Wood dries mostly from end grain.


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## 120inna55 (Jan 8, 2011)

cmonSTART said:
			
		

> ...What kind of trees?


 Mostly oak.  Some hickory.


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## DanCorcoran (Jan 8, 2011)

From what I've read on this Forum, even bucked wood won't season properly until it has been split and stored in circulating air.  Standing dead even less so...


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## summit (Jan 8, 2011)

It aint gonna dry out till you cut/ split it - but it won't take as long to season since the tree is dead standing.


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## pen (Jan 8, 2011)

here are a few threads on seasoning firewood that you may want to check out.

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/65989/

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/10158/

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/45062/

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/40425/

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/32870/

pen


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## Dakotas Dad (Jan 8, 2011)

summit said:
			
		

> It aint gonna dry out till you cut/ split it - but it won't take as long to season since the tree is dead standing.



Last spring I bucked, split, stacked a cherry tree that was about 30" DBH. It had been down 2 years, not on the ground, held up by the crown and root ball. I had to cut down a couple standing/live small cherry trees near it (6" or so). There was only2% difference according to my MM between the trees.

Had I thought of it, I would have stacked it so that I could see if there was a noticeable drying difference..


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## cmnash (Jan 8, 2011)

I say it depends on the diameter. I've been scrounging dead stuff 24/7 last 2 weeks so as to enjoy my new Hearthstone. I have no really fully seasoned cord wood yet. Very frustrating

 Dead oak 6" or so in diameter, standing or recently fallen, seems to burn good. 

Great Navy Seal exercise though; slinging 4 foot logs over your shoulder, walking them up out of rocky, frozen wetland areas.


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## 120inna55 (Jan 8, 2011)

This is the best forum ever!

My question was addressed  within 3 minutes of posting.  Subsequent replies make valid points and don't just restate previous posters.  I've been "surfing the 'net" for over 13 years, using many online forums.  This one is in the top 2.  Thank you all so much for your replies!


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## Dakotas Dad (Jan 8, 2011)

120inna55 said:
			
		

> This is the best forum ever!
> 
> My question was addressed  within 3 minutes of posting.  Subsequent replies make valid points and don't just restate previous posters.  I've been "surfing the 'net" for over 13 years, using many online forums.  This one is in the top 2.  Thank you all so much for your replies!



Bah.. You just got lucky  :lol: 

It's a cold January Saturday morning, and everyone's up feeding the stove so momma will get outa the fart sack and make biscuits.. ;-)


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## pen (Jan 8, 2011)

120inna55 said:
			
		

> This is the best forum ever!
> 
> My question was addressed  within 3 minutes of posting.  Subsequent replies make valid points and don't just restate previous posters.  I've been "surfing the 'net" for over 13 years, using many online forums.  This one is in the top 2.  Thank you all so much for your replies!



Top 2!  Who the heck is our competition!    


pen


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## Mike Wilson (Jan 8, 2011)

120inna55 said:
			
		

> Does this qualify as seasoned?



No.

-- MW


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## Mike Wilson (Jan 8, 2011)

pen said:
			
		

> Top 2!  Who the heck is our competition!



HearthTalk, of course!   :coolgrin: 

-- MW


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## cj-8_jim (Jan 8, 2011)

Probably not after 3 years, but maybe after a few more.

Cut it down and look at the cross cuts.

I cut down some 12" (near base) dead hedge apple trees standing behind the house when I bought the house.  The bark was COMPLETELY gone and the surface cracks on the wood penetrated the logs.
It burned really, really well that winter.


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## Kenster (Jan 8, 2011)

I have found that, with standing dead, the tops are more likely to be fairly dry, and burnable.   The large limbs and trunk, even though the tree has been dead for a few years, still have a high moisture content and may need at least two years of seasoning AFTER being split and stacked.   Virtually all of my experience has been with hickory and oak (water oak and pin oak.)   Now, I love it when I find a standing water oak that has been dead so long that the bark is blown.   It splits real easy and may burn pretty good right away but will definitely be ready after one year.    
I just took down a standing dead water oak a couple of days ago.  It's bucked out in the woods.  I'm going to move it up to my processing area today.  When I start splitting I'll stick a moisture meter in there.  I suspect, from the look of the freshly cut trunk, that it's still very wet.  The smaller limbs from the top feel solid, but light weight, and may be ready to burn soon.


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## Kenster (Jan 8, 2011)

On a side note, this thread probably should have been posted in the "Wood Shed" forum.


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## Mcbride (Jan 8, 2011)

A good friend has a large acreage, with many dead pine trees on it.
He is cutting, splitting and burning the dead pines, and finding them to be fairly dry, about 18 to 20 percent moisture, as he splits them.
Most are several years dead though, not just a year or two. More like 4 to 6 years dead.


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## leeave96 (Jan 8, 2011)

It depends.

Presently, the only wood I cut is dead wood.  Mostly oak and locust.  I cut-up a maple last summer that was dead also.  All of these trees had been dead for years, the oak had bark falling off if it, the locust had become the meal for bugs and termites and the maple was suspended off the ground by the trunk.  Many times the wood is standing, but dead as per above.  All of it is very dry and seasoned, however, I still like to get it cut, split and under cover to further dry it out.

On the other hand, if the tree has been dead only long enough for the leaves to fall off it, I still cut it, but it goes into my 3 year out pile of wood.

Another thing about this old dead wood I cut is that it is fairly solid, but not like green wood that has been cut and seasoned.  I am also watchful for bugs and other critters that may want to come out of the wood and live in my house.  The old locust is the worst for this.  I've even split this stuff to reveal wasps hiding.  I think I'd feel better about seasoned green wood that is totally solid setting near my house than the old dead stuff I've been cutting.

Happy burning!
Bill


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## billb3 (Jan 8, 2011)

If I had no  seasoned wood and wanted to be warm, I'd go looking in my wood for vertical dead standing with no bark on them.

The ones with just some bark missing are tough, though. The oaks have been withering that way with sometimes  half the tree still alive, so there will be a mix of green and dead wood and everything in between.


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## 120inna55 (Jan 8, 2011)

pen said:
			
		

> 120inna55 said:
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http://www.Satelliteguys.us


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## Renovation (Jan 8, 2011)

120inna55 said:
			
		

> This is the best forum ever!
> 
> My question was addressed  within 3 minutes of posting.  Subsequent replies make valid points and don't just restate previous posters.  I've been "surfing the 'net" for over 13 years, using many online forums.  This one is in the top 2.  Thank you all so much for your replies!



What's the other one?

Inquiring minds want to know.

EDIT:  Never mind, the answer is right over me! 

Bye, gotta go!


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## Backwoods Savage (Jan 9, 2011)

In the years we've cut wood, we've cut much dead. For sure if it is dead and on the ground, most times it is not worth even cutting. If dead and fallen over but has not reached the ground then many times it will be good wood but not necessarily ready to burn. Standing dead is almost never ready to burn.

Some standing dead can certainly be good and ready to burn, at least on the top third of the tree. The bottom no doubt will be still full of moisture. Most times though the standing dead will not take quite as long to season as a live tree will.

For some good hints on dead oak, I would direct you to look at some of the posts from our friend quads. He cuts almost 100% dead oak and has for many years. He also will tell you that dead oak is not ready to burn. One of his recent threads is about folks who want his wood but he no longer has dry wood to sell....but still is cutting away at all that dead oak he has. Do yourself a favor and look for his threads.

EDIT:  Here is a link to one of quads threads:  quads thread on dead oak


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## joshlaugh (Jan 9, 2011)

Others have already given you good info on this.  My experience cutting standing dead trees depends on the species.  I have cut lots of dead standing elm trees and been very successful being able to drop, buck, split and throw in the stoves that day.  Other species like ash are much more iffy.  Sometimes I can split and throw in the stove other times I wait another year on them. Most other species I split and stack and wait a year.  I  will be removing some standing dead catalpa trees next week.  I am not 100% if they will be burnable this year but I intend to find out.  I think the best case is that you cut and split them and season the wood for at least one year.


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## gzecc (Jan 9, 2011)

120inna55 said:
			
		

> Surely this has been addressed here previously, but search is not turning up anything for me.
> 
> So, I have several trees on my property that are still standing but have been dead for 3 or more years.  Does this qualify as seasoned?


From my experience it all depends if your the firewood seller or the firewood user?


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## Lumber-Jack (Jan 9, 2011)

120inna55 said:
			
		

> Surely this has been addressed here previously, but search is not turning up anything for me.
> 
> So, I have several trees on my property that are still standing but have been dead for 3 or more years.  Does this qualify as seasoned?


I've only found one kind of tree that I can routinely cut & burn without the need to season, and that is beetle kill Lodgepole pine. The way the trees die by having the sap blocked off by the fungus (the fungus is what actually kills them) causes the tree to dry out faster very fast and thoroughly.  Because we have such an abundance of beetle killed trees locally I've made it my staple firewood, I don't have to worry about storing up and seasoning my firewood years ahead. I just make sure my woodshed is full before winter.
Other than that, like many have already said most standing dead that I have cut will have burnable wood near the top and branches, but the trunk will usually continue to hold a lot of moisture for years until its' cut and split.

Here's a thread I posted this fall of my boys and I cutting some beetle kill trees. https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/58715/


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## Rich L (Jan 9, 2011)

I've burned dead elm immediately after cutting which burned well.


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## Thistle (Jan 9, 2011)

Rich L said:
			
		

> I've burned dead elm immediately after cutting which burned well.



 +1 I agree.Sometimes I get lucky & find some 6"-8" diameter standing dead american or slippery/red elm or red/black oak that sounds like the crack of a baseball bat when you hit it with your axe or toss it in truck bed.Look for deep vertical cracks and/or no bark.Much bigger than these & they need split/dried 90% of the time I've found though.


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## golfandwoodnut (Jan 9, 2011)

I cut some Red and White Oak this year that has been dead for 20 years from the gypsy moths that invaded in 1990 and it measured under 20 percent on the MM immediately.  You could also tell by the weight, it feels less that half as heavy as fresh Oak.  I am burning it now and it is great.  So it can happen, I just would not count on it.


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## woodchip (Jan 9, 2011)

hard aground said:
			
		

> Great Navy Seal exercise though; slinging 4 foot logs over your shoulder, walking them up out of rocky, frozen wetland areas.



Done a bit of that myself this last few weeks, maybe I missed my vocation when younger......... 

We have had quite a few silver birch standing dead over the back of us, and some have fallen over most conveniently. It surprising how quickly they seem to season once they are bucked and split. 

I actually kept a couple of small splits near the stove for a few days and they seemed to be dry and burned passably well. 
However, I reckon it would not work as well with oak or ash here as they are much denser. But for a quick burn on a mild day  (47f here today) the birch seems to be ok. 
The only problem I have found with birch is that if it is dead standing too long it will rot before it seasons, they go soft and spongy under the bark, and frankly, could be potentially dangerous.
You don't want a standing dead tree to become a fallen dead tree whilst you are nearby


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## kenny chaos (Jan 9, 2011)

Well after two pages of pretty much the same answer, I'll take it in another direction.
Trees should not be cut down on a full moon because of the extra sap drawn into it.
In South America, for example, many tree harvesting contracts require trees to be cut in a waning moon.


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## woodchip (Jan 9, 2011)

If it's standing dead, there will nor be much sap rising..........

But if it's a full moon, you might want to be aware of the werewolves


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## Thistle (Jan 9, 2011)

woodchip said:
			
		

> If it's standing dead, there will nor be much sap rising..........
> 
> But if it's a full moon, you might want to be aware of the werewolves



Dont forget the vampires also,thats why I carry this White Oak stake and wear a necklace of  garlic heads  ;-)


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## charly (Jan 9, 2011)

120inna55 said:
			
		

> Surely this has been addressed here previously, but search is not turning up anything for me.
> 
> So, I have several trees on my property that are still standing but have been dead for 3 or more years.  Does this qualify as seasoned?


 I'd just check them with a moisture meter if you take one down. Have about 30 Oak tops in one of my fields, probaly 5 years old. Still green 30% when you cut them open, but they dry out quick once split. Yet the other day a I had a dead oak, no bark laying across the ground, 14 inches at the base, 30 feet long, Blocked it up to get it out of the way to get to some other top. I check the inside after making a cut, yippie it's all around 19%. Didn't even bother splitting anything. Burning great. I would cut one tree and just check the insides with a moisture meter. Most likely they will dry quick once you split them open. My green 5 year old Oak went from 30% down to 15% in about 3 months after splitting it. Alot of it had no bark which rotted off from sitting in the fields for so many years.


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## Kenster (Jan 9, 2011)

I dropped a 16 inch diameter, 45 foot tall water oak a few days ago.  Split it all yesterday.  The rounds from the main part of the trunk were super heavy (21 inch length)  and measured off the dial at 38%+.   The wood from the upper trunk came in around 22% and the limbs from the top measured as low as 14%.
So, out of the 3/8 or so cord I got out of that tree,  some of it is ready to burn now, some new year, and probably the lower 15 feet or so of the trunk could be at least two, maybe three years.  
Note:  I don't think this tree has been dead very long.  I only recently noticed the limbs being dropped.


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## loon (Jan 9, 2011)

these little elms are endless around here and not a clue how long they were standing dead? but cut and throw in the stove right away   

mind you alot of work taking them all down..


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## Black Jaque Janaviac (Jan 9, 2011)

Yes, dead standing wood can be ready to burn right away.  When I'm scrounging, I look for the dead trees with the bark mostly fallen off.  After I fell them I usually get the crown and maybe top 1/3 or 2/3s of the trunk.  The closer to the stump I work the wetter it gets.  I can usually see as I'm cutting it up where the water begins because the inside wood is darker colored (this is aside from the usual difference between sapwood and heartwood).

I've learned not to bother with dead wood that has been laying on the forest floor.


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## woodmeister (Jan 10, 2011)

Some type of blight came thru here apx. five years ago affecting oaks. I've been taking a few every spring,drop and split, and thev'e been ready to burn in the fall they turn out to be good shoulder season wood due to their lower density.


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## trailmaker (Jan 10, 2011)

I imagine location has a lot to do with the MC of dead standing.  A place that would be good for seasoning (open,  breezy,  south facing) will give you better odds of finding dead standing that is ready to burn.


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## Adios Pantalones (Jan 10, 2011)

I have dropped oaks dead about one year that were ready to burn except for the bottom rounds of the trunk- which were literally gushing water.

I believe that a standing dead tree in some cases dries very fast because 1- branches and leaves add surface  area early on (I girdled the trees), 2) it is very exposed to wind when standing, and 3) there's some gravitational settling of water when it's dead- especially if you've cut through the inner bark all the way around the tree.

In my area- I would count on more than half the tree being pretty darned dry if it had been dead a couple years.


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## jebatty (Jan 10, 2011)

Counts as seasoned only when no one is in the woods to burn it.


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## woodchip (Jan 10, 2011)

Best standing dead wood if you can find it over there is probably buckskin larch...........

And if you want to buy some, it's quite pricey on craigslist......... :

http://calgary.en.craigslist.ca/grd/2100821382.html


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## Black Jaque Janaviac (Jan 10, 2011)

Hola Adios,

Oh, yeah, if you girdle a live tree during the summer you have the added advantage of the leaves' respiration drawing water out of the sapwood.  Without the connection to the roots, the leaves speed the drying process.

Can the open wound in such trees provide a breeding ground for insects which then increase in population and then infest other trees.  Or is this OK if you wait until the last frost before felling them?


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## Adios Pantalones (Jan 10, 2011)

I didn't observe insect infestation in the oaks that I killed.  I think an injured live tree is more of an issue; I girdled them in the spring so they sort of never woke up that well from the winter.  

The pines ended up with a boring beetle- but every pine I take down here gets them after death (These particular beetles don't seem to infect live trees).

I girdled them to reduce leaf cover  but I didn't have time to fell/split them.  When I finally bucked them up- they were dry but man were they hard on my saw/chain/back (the oaks, not the pines) !


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## 120inna55 (Jan 26, 2011)

Here's a little feedback:

I'm a newbie and didn't have any wood collected up to use in my newly installed stove in November.  I live on 20 heavily wooded acres and I intent to only use dead wood on the property for this stove, as my wife and I live in the woods for a reason--we love trees and do not intend to cut down green ones.

Anyway, the first cord, all oak, seemed like good, seasoned wood to my amateur eye.  It was relatively light.  Grey in color.  Loose or absent bark.  It ignited quickly and burned completely without hissing or popping.  I had good success with roaring hot fires despite being a new user of an Englander 12-FP (having a reputation of being a somewhat fickle stove).

This second cord is oak as well---probably exclusively red oak (although relatively impossible to know for sure on a dead, cut-up tree).  I do not believe it is seasoned, though. The wood may have been down for a year, but I suspect it was only bucked and split recently.  It is very dense and heavy.  It is absolutely beautiful wood, having that rich pink color like that of smoked brisket.  And it has a very strong oak smell.  It has tight bark.  When I try to burn it, it takes forever to get it to ignite, at which point, it makes puny smokey fires and often ends up going out leaving a charred, intact log.  This wood, in my opinion, will not be ready to burn for at least a year and maybe two.  I do not have a moisture meter, by the way.

So, instead of ordering more wood just yet, I thought I'd try scrounging my woods.  In the original post, I queried about three-year standing dead oak.  I believe the general consensus is "it depends, but don't get your hopes up".  I think I got lucky...

I was able to actually push over one of the standing dead oaks.  It was about 16" diameter at the base and no limbs to speak of.  Most of the bark was gone. I expected punky wood.  Man was I surprised.  See the attached picture of the stump (remember this was pushed over).  Some of the wood has about 1" of punk, but otherwise it is dense, dry wood.  It split easily with my 8# maul. 

While I was at it, I cut down another larger nearby standing dead oak with identical results (except it wouldn't push over).

Despite appearances, I didn't expect it to burn well given the tepid responses here.  Man, was I surprised.  It's burning like a dream.  I've used wood from both trees and it ignites quickly and cleanly, providing good, hot, long-lasting fires.  I'm a happy camper!


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## charly (Jan 26, 2011)

120inna55 said:
			
		

> Here's a little feedback:
> 
> I'm a newbie and didn't have any wood collected up to use in my newly installed stove in November.  I live on 20 heavily wooded acres and I intent to only use dead wood on the property for this stove, as my wife and I live in the woods for a reason--we love trees and do not intend to cut down green ones.
> 
> ...


 Looks like the Oak I've been burning from my woods. About 30+ oak tops , been down for about 5 plus years, farm was logged a little before we bought it. Nice wood to burn. Surprised me too. What's still green drys out fast once split.


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## kenny chaos (Jan 26, 2011)

120inna55 said:
			
		

> Here's a little feedback:
> 
> I'm a newbie and didn't have any wood collected up to use in my newly installed stove in November.  I live on 20 heavily wooded acres and I intent to only use dead wood on the property for this stove, as my wife and I live in the woods for a reason--we love trees and do not intend to cut down green ones.
> 
> !




A good wood lot plan includes taking some green trees and consider the wildlife if planning on taking all dead trees.
welcome and good luck-
Kenny


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## charly (Jan 26, 2011)

kenny chaos said:
			
		

> 120inna55 said:
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 I hear ya there, Kenny.  I've always left plenty of housing for everyone  ;-)


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## flash49 (Jan 26, 2011)

Kenster said:
			
		

> On a side note, this thread probably should have been posted in the "Wood Shed" forum.






I thought this was the "Wood Shed"  I must be lost...


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## 120inna55 (Jan 26, 2011)

kenny chaos said:
			
		

> 120inna55 said:
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I'm not gonna cut down healthy, green trees unless they are somehow impacting my lifestyle (i.e. ) I _did _cut down two small Eastern Red Cedars for satellite line of site).  Otherwise, I will scrounge and purchase wood before I cut down healthy green trees on my property.  I have other sources:  local family and friends with hundreds of acres and who are more than willing to allow me to take dead wood.  I'm not sure about the wildlife implications to which you elude about taking all dead trees, but there's no way way I could take _all _the dead ones and frankly, not all dead trees are firewood-worthy.  On our property, we have Black Tupelo, Blackjack Oak, Water Oak, Red Oak, Post Oak, Dogwood, Farkleberry, Black Hickory, American Holly, Red Maple, Sweet Gum, Black Willow, Winged Elm, Eastern Red Cedar...that's all I can think of right now.  I'm in East Texas and we have at least 3 live springs on the property.


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## 120inna55 (Jan 26, 2011)

flash49 said:
			
		

> Kenster said:
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Yeah, I, being a newb, originally posted this in the "Hearth Room".  It was appropriately moved to the correct forum by a mod.


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## 120inna55 (Jan 26, 2011)

120inna55 said:
			
		

> ...I'm not sure about the wildlife implications to which you elude about taking all dead trees...





			
				xclimber said:
			
		

> ...I hear ya there, Kenny.  I've always left plenty of housing for everyone  ;-)



Ah, I see.  The only "groomed" part of the property is the nestled out part for my house.  The rest is all relatively untouched woods with the exception of a shoulder wide trail winding throughout.  There are many dead trees along the creek line that I wouldn't touch anyway due to difficult access.  The old timer's refer to the creek as "Moonshine Creek".   In fact, according to Google Earth  / Maps, the source lakes are called Moonshine Creek Lakes 1 and 2. (see attached screen grab from Google Maps).


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## thewoodlands (Jan 26, 2011)

120inna55 said:
			
		

> Surely this has been addressed here previously, but search is not turning up anything for me.
> 
> So, I have several trees on my property that are still standing but have been dead for 3 or more years.  Does this qualify as seasoned?



I cut some dead standing sugar maple (without bark) then after splitting it the moisture content measured 22-24 percent. After being in the house for just over one week it measure from 18-20 percent moisture content.

Zap


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