# Permit Issues for Restored Antique Glenwood C



## MrL (Aug 18, 2014)

I am trying to install a restored antique wood cook stove and the township inspector is giving us a hard time.
We were told by him that we cant install an old stove. But I read online that If a stove is manufactured before 1981 it will not be UL Listed and it is grandfathered in. I found this information on a website but PA uses the UCC and I am unable to find anything online. Any information would be greatly appreciated!!  Thank you all.


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## gzecc (Aug 18, 2014)

Like all codes. If its already installed its grandfathered in. You can't bring it in and say its grandfathered. Just like you can't install an old toilet (without low flow). If you have one installed from many moons ago, you can keep it, but you can't go out and buy a used old toilet and install it.


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## begreen (Aug 18, 2014)

Has the inspector provided you with the specific code conditions he is concerned about? Are they addressable?


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## Owen1508 (Aug 18, 2014)

After reading the UCC that PA goes with.  It is stated that The IRC 2009 is adapted and to be followed except for app. G (pools)

here is a link to a copy https://law.resource.org/pub/us/code/ibr/icc.irc.2009.html.

The IRC really just talks about Fireplace stoves being listed, yours is a wood cook stove. I would think since it is unlisted the clearances would be 36" min.(NFPA 211) without a 211 protective wall..  Like BG asked what code in the UCC or IRC is he stating that an unlisted stove cannot be installed?


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## Owen1508 (Aug 18, 2014)

The PA UCC is as follows

http://www.portal.state.pa.us/porta...form_construction_code/10524/ucc_codes/553803


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## Owen1508 (Aug 18, 2014)

M1901.2 Cooking appliances. Household cooking _appliances_ shall be _listed _and _labeled _and shall be installed in accordance with the manufacturer's installation instructions. The installation shall not interfere with _combustion air or_ access for operation and servicing.

IRC 2009 Page 501  has to be the code he is going off.


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## begreen (Aug 18, 2014)

Owen1508 said:


> The IRC really just talks about Fireplace stoves being listed, yours is a wood cook stove. I would think since it is unlisted the clearances would be 36" min.(NFPA 211) without a 211 protective wall..  Like BG asked what code in the UCC or IRC is he stating that an unlisted stove cannot be installed?



Yes, that was my thought. If this is a clearances issue for an unlisted cook stove then it should be safe to install as long as clearances are honored. The 36" requirement can be reduced to 12" with a proper NFPA 211 wall shield.


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## Owen1508 (Aug 18, 2014)

You can go in front of your town board and request a variance (exception) being it is a restored antique wood cook stove.  If you Install or show you install plan and use the NFPA 211 as a guide they may allow it.  Wouldn't hurt if you get a local fire offical and a professional wood stove installed to sign off on the plan as well.  With proper protection you can provide a safe install.


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## MrL (Aug 18, 2014)

begreen said:


> Has the inspector provided you with the specific code conditions he is concerned about? Are they addressable?



He just said we can't install it an old stove.


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## bholler (Aug 18, 2014)

Like the others said if it is unlisted you need to go with the standard 36" clearance unless the wall is shielded properly.  I work in pa and unless philly has their own code that they go by it is perfectly legal to install an old stove.

Your insurance company on the other hand may require a ul listed stove some do some dont you would have to check


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## MrL (Aug 18, 2014)

bholler said:


> Like the others said if it is unlisted you need to go with the standard 36" clearance unless the wall is shielded properly.  I work in pa and unless philly has their own code that they go by it is perfectly legal to install an old stove.



Thank you. Our township doesn't have their own code saying that we cant install it. Our inspector didn't give us a reason, just said we cant. Is there somewhere online where is says it is legal? Like on the state website or such? Thanks again


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## Owen1508 (Aug 18, 2014)

The state website is

http://www.portal.state.pa.us/porta...form_construction_code/10524/ucc_codes/553803

The IRC is  ( which the state website says it has adopted as state code)  but bholler would be better to answer that since he installs in PA

https://law.resource.org/pub/us/code/ibr/icc.irc.2009.html

I don't have a link for the NFPA 211 which has the clearance for unlisted stoves.  but the chapter covering it would be chapter 12.  The exact code number escapes my memory right now and I don't have the 211 in front of me now. It is 36" for unlist as said above by BG.


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## begreen (Aug 18, 2014)

I would politely ask the inspector if a variance would be permissible if you follow NFPA guidelines and install the stove with an NFPA 211 wall shield behind it. It might also help if you have a certified installer install it. You can find one in your area by typing in your zip code on this website:
http://www.nficertified.org/pages_consumers/consumers-1.cfm


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## bholler (Aug 18, 2014)

yes like begreen said be polite if you are rude and piss them off you wont get anywhere.


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## MrL (Aug 19, 2014)

Thank you all so much for your input! It was a great help


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## begreen (Aug 19, 2014)

Good luck. Hope it all works out in the end.


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## Owen1508 (Aug 19, 2014)

Yeah keep us updated


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## MrL (Aug 19, 2014)

I spoke with the inspector today and he said that we have to follow IRC 2009. He's not sure that we can install this stove but he requested that I send him a bunch of information on the stove and he will look into it further. Anyone familiar with IRC 2009? Thanks everyone for your help! Its been awesome


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## bholler (Aug 19, 2014)

Ask him to tell you exactly what part or irc 2009 excludes the use of unlisted appliances even when the installation conforms to nfpa 211 standards?


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## Owen1508 (Aug 20, 2014)

Owen1508 said:


> M1901.2 Cooking appliances. Household cooking _appliances_ shall be _listed _and _labeled _and shall be installed in accordance with the manufacturer's installation instructions. The installation shall not interfere with _combustion air or_ access for operation and servicing.
> 
> IRC 2009 Page 501  has to be the code he is going off.


 I believe this one Bholler


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## Owen1508 (Aug 20, 2014)

That's if he goes off it being a cooking stove.

If he goes off a wood stove then he could use this:

M1410.1 General. Vented room heaters shall be tested in accordance with ASTM E 1509, UL 896 for oil-fired or UL 1482 for solid fuel-fired and installed in accordance with their _listing_, the manufacturer's installation instructions and the requirements of this code.

ROOM HEATER. A freestanding heating _appliance_ installed in the space being heated and not connected to ducts.

As begreen said you might be able to get a variance


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## Owen1508 (Aug 20, 2014)

I would also include in the info you send him the section of the NFPA 211 that would support your install


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