# OMG Scary Hopper Fire!!!



## cristiansmom (Dec 27, 2010)

Woke up in the middle of the night with the smoke detectors going off... My house was soooo filled with smoke.. We have an alarm service and so fire department was dispatched... YIKES It was horrible and scary... The stove is only 2 years old... Is this normal?? I have never had an issue and its been cleaned anually... The fire department had to put it out with water and I sucked it all out as best as possible.. Its a st croix... I guess I will be calling them and the dealership tomorrow.... UGGG!! I am afraid to use a stove now!! I wont lite it... Got the oil furnace going but gosh $4k and now I will be afraid to use it...

PS when the fire department came out he said, wow, weird.. the pellets aren't backed up the chute or anything.. Its was just the normal amount of pellets in the pit and then tons of smoke in the hopper... He did say it's probably from the wind (experienceing blizzard like conditions here in Rhode island) I just don't know... I have no confidence with a pellet stove anymore...


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## Nicholas440 (Dec 27, 2010)

Im glad you had smoke detectors that worked, and Im sure it was scarey to wake up to  a house filled with smoke.  Generally speaking, if the stove is in an area away from anything that would burn the worst that usually happens is a lot of smoke because the stove is all closed up including the hopper, so it would only smolder and smoke until you open the hopper lid and let the air get to it.

What I would do is have the stove serviced by a professional, its going to need a good cleaning, and something had to go wrong to cause it to  back fire, or  flame up into the hopper.  It should have shut itself down because there are safety sensors in the chute and hopper openings to detect any excessive heat or fire, and these should have shut it down, but something failed,  so I would have a pro give it a good going over.   I would not light it up the way it is because something made it fail .  The water must have made a mess Im sure, and I think  even when its fixed you may still have a fear of it failing again.  One hopper fire and my stove would be on Craigs list as fast as I could put it there.  I never go to bed and leave my stove running,   Im just not comfortable doing that, because there are too many things that can go wrong,  such as in your case,   waking up to a hopper fire.

I missed the last part of your post about the fireman saying the wind could have done it, and I totally agree,  a strong down draft of wind could have made that flame creep backward up into the hopper chute momentarily but why didnt the so called safety device shut down or block off the opening to the hopper?  I think some stoves have like a flap the will slam shut if the fire gets up in the hopper area Im not sure.   Pellet stoves  should be required to have a built in fire extinguisher inside the hopper, it can be something as simpler as a water filled container that would act like a sprinkler system in the event the hopper was on fire and it could water it down this would at least keep it from burning but you would still get smoke.  

I hope you get it fixed and they can tell you why it failed or why the hopper caught fire. And I'm very glad you are safe and it was only smokey, the stove can be replaced.


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## bookpile (Dec 27, 2010)

Sorry to hear about your problem. It's never fun to get woken up like that. Was there actually fire in the hopper or did smoke just start coming out of it?


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## www_godzilla (Dec 27, 2010)

I wonder if you lost power and the blowers shut down. That would mean the smoke from the burning fire in the fire pot couldn't be blown out of the exhaust. That would explain the smoke in the house. That happened here a few years ago. My home filled with smoke.


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## Pellet-King (Dec 27, 2010)

Is this a "Push" style stove?, no wonder them stoves I've seen have sealed hopper doors with switches, crazy design in my opinion


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## cristiansmom (Dec 27, 2010)

Well, nothing in the house indicated that the power went out (no blinking clocks and such which happens when we lose power) This is an St. Croix afton Bay.... My mom said it seems like a downdraft from the blizzard winds... My piping is directly out the house and only about 3 feet of pipe out the side... I am calling st croix company today to see what they say...

We did not see any flames and to be honest, when I shopvacd all the mushy pellets and such there was no black/burnt ones in it... I just don't understand but the hopper just poured out smoke!! The stove had shut down flame so there was only smoldering ask in the pot when we got woken up and the blower was on but it was a normal amount of pellet in the pot not a huge amount going up the shute...


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## cristiansmom (Dec 27, 2010)

Well, as I am scraping soggy pellets out of the auger I do see some black pellets... not much but they are black...


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## EarthStove (Dec 27, 2010)

I am willing to bet you didn't have a hopper fire.  What probably happened is the winds backed up into your stove and either put out the fire pot fire and it smoldered and allowed smoke to enter the living space or constant winds did the same thing but instead of putting the fire out completely just kept backing up inside the stove and pushing smoke out of the hopper.  

When we have strong winds out of the west north west - same thing can happen here as well...We shut the stove down and use alternate heat.  I added about 5 to 6 ft of rise this year to our pipe outside but it is still not enough.  Next year I am taking the stove pipe all the way over the roof line.

What direction does your exhaust pipe face?


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## krooser (Dec 27, 2010)

Pellet-King said:
			
		

> Is this a "Push" style stove?, no wonder them stoves I've seen have sealed hopper doors with switches, crazy design in my opinion



What's a push type stove? Do you mean a bottom feed like a harman?  St croix are top feed...


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## imacman (Dec 27, 2010)

debinri said:
			
		

> ....My mom said it seems like a downdraft from the blizzard winds... My piping is directly out the house and only about 3 feet of pipe out the side....



I think it's time that you add 4-5 ft of vertical rise on the outside of the house, with a proper round cap.  I think that would eliminate any issues with the wind blowing the exhaust back down the pipe and into the room, as I think happened here.


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## Countryboymo (Dec 27, 2010)

If the unit had a OAK would that help in these circumstances?  I think the stove worked fine and went into shutdown like it was designed.   I would get a vertical rise either inside the house or outside.  If an OAK is installed and that wind is really howling at the exhaust and intake the pressure differential between the two would seem to be more equalized compared to using indoor air.  Please correct me if I am wrong.


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## imacman (Dec 27, 2010)

Countryboymo said:
			
		

> If the unit had a OAK would that help in these circumstances?  I think the stove worked fine and went into shutdown like it was designed.   I would get a vertical rise either inside the house or outside.  If an OAK is installed and that wind is really howling at the exhaust and intake the pressure differential between the two would seem to be more equalized compared to using indoor air.  Please correct me if I am wrong.



Not sure about that, since the exhaust on a pellet stove "drafts" due mostly to the combustion blower, not natural heat draft like a wood stove.

I have had an OAK installed since I first started using pellet stoves, and have noticed a poorer daft during times of high winds, and the oak is on the side of the prevailing wind.

The fact that they have NO vertical draft, and the pipe is just sticking straight out is the cause of this problem, IMO.


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## doublewide (Dec 27, 2010)

Sorry to hear about your fire and scare last night.  Thankfully, you have a fire detector close to your stove.  I turned my stove off last night due to the high winds, blizzard conditions, and possibility of a loss of power.  We did lose our power, so I am very thankful that I shut down the stove before going to bed.  I also have the following in my house next to my stove Class 3 fire extinguisher, CO2 detector, and 4 hardwired fire detectors in my basement.  My fire department came to my house once due to a vehicle fire, it took them like 20 minutes to get there and 911 called my wife to find out where exactly we were located.  We lost the car, except for a charred antenna that was given to the owner in his work mailbox as a joke.  I would recommend the vertical rise, a good termination cap, not burning during high winds, the possibility of venting on the east or south or roof of your house, and probably looking into another stove for piece of mind.  It really could have been a lot worse, but thankfully it was not.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Dec 27, 2010)

Yes a properly installed OAK would have helped.

Despite what some folks on here seem to think, you really do need to take into account power outages and storms when venting any heating device.


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## littlesmokey (Dec 27, 2010)

Enough back pressure on the exhaust would surely shut the stove down. It's too bad you couldn't investigate without the extra water, but it doesn't sound like a hopper fire to me. The newer stoves have too many safety features to prevent the fire moving up the auger. If it did shut down and the fire in the burn pot was allowed to go out naturally, the pressure would prevent the smoke from moving up and could make the best avenue of escape the auger tube. Filled hopper upon opening would be pretty dramatic, but no fire present. 

Only once did I have a build of smoke in the hopper, but it took a constant 35mph wind blowing just right. I now have a "wind shield".


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## SmokeyTheBear (Dec 27, 2010)

debinri said:
			
		

> Woke up in the middle of the night with the smoke detectors going off... My house was soooo filled with smoke.. We have an alarm service and so fire department was dispatched... YIKES It was horrible and scary... The stove is only 2 years old... Is this normal?? I have never had an issue and its been cleaned anually... The fire department had to put it out with water and I sucked it all out as best as possible.. Its a st croix... I guess I will be calling them and the dealership tomorrow.... UGGG!! I am afraid to use a stove now!! I wont lite it... Got the oil furnace going but gosh $4k and now I will be afraid to use it...
> 
> PS when the fire department came out he said, wow, weird.. the pellets aren't backed up the chute or anything.. Its was just the normal amount of pellets in the pit and then tons of smoke in the hopper... He did say it's probably from the wind (experienceing blizzard like conditions here in Rhode island) I just don't know... I have no confidence with a pellet stove anymore...



That so called annual cleaning is actually a use cleaning, the more you burn the more often things need to be cleaned.


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## tinkabranc (Dec 27, 2010)

What a scary situation that must have been.  Glad everyone is ok tho.

I am not too far from you and the winds here last nite were whipping and howling 
so bad it sounded like the house was getting sandblasted.

I agree about getting that stove checked out by a pro before firing it back up and also 
change your vent so it has some vertical to it.  
Sounds like the wind gusts had a straight shot into the stove.

Keep us posted how you make out


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## kinsmanstoves (Dec 27, 2010)

Glad no one was hurt and your house still in tact.

I was told at a factory held St Croix class that if you burn your stove on low all the time it will have a creoste build up.  They said you need to run the stove on high every once in a while to burn the build up out.  That was from a factory training seminar last year.

Eric


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## defield (Dec 27, 2010)

Don't blame you for being scared and glad you are OK.

Please, please get a refillable ABC fire extinguisher and keep it handy.  With one, you could have had the fire out and the fire department would not have had to use messy water.

I also believe that the strong winds were a major part of the problem.  Using the excellent suggestions already made here and a good pellet stove professional, I would add vertical piping and a weather cap properly oriented.

The mentions of not running the stove in a storm of that type are not a bad idea.

Also, for peace of mind, I would talk to your stove professional about a trade.

Best wishes,

Ranger


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## woodsman23 (Dec 27, 2010)

I have a afton bay and it is direct vent to the outside (straight out) and i have no issues with the wind, I use a 45 degree cap at the end of the pipe and it extends 18" from the house. NOW my oak sucked up some snow a couple weeks ago due to a lake effect event (another story) and fried my blower (water everywhere). I had to replace it and now all is well and i moved all the snow fgar away from the intake.


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## Ladderlieu (Dec 28, 2010)

I don't want to be critical of the Fire Dept that responded as I certainly wasn't there to see for myself. However...  I can tell you from experience that my local Fire Dept has metal pails and small shovels on all our apparatus. The last time we had a pellet stove issue, there was smoke pouring from the hopper. Rather than pour water in and make a mess, we remove the pellets to see if there is a cause for the smoke. We ended up getting all the pellets out and not a single one was charred.  Not a hopper fire after all.  The homeowner had unplugged the stove after it was running, but plugged it back in when we got there.  Some things are not always what they seem.  In my humble opinion, when power is removed or wind causes a back pressure situation (for lack of a better term) it's going to cause smoke to come out of places it isn't supposed to.  The winds last night could surely have been a major contributing factor in the smoke issue.  Hope you get it dried out and checked and with any luck you will have a proper working stove in no time.


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## defield (Dec 28, 2010)

Ladderlieu,

Good for you and your fire department.

Wish more were as thoughtful.

Our company had a presentation on fire safety from the former city fire chief.  He said, with a smirk ( my opinion), if you burn wood and have a chimney fire, you should have an ABC extinguisher to put out the fire as the department will douse it with water and likely destroy the chimney. 

In the question and answer period that followed, I asked the former Chief WHY, if you know you are going to ruin a chimney that costs the homeowner or insurance company thousands of dollars, do you not use a dry chemical, like my small town volenteer fire department?His answer, after stumbling a bit, was "budgetary reasons, water costs less".

Left me with a real bad impression.

My rant for the morning!

Ranger


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## FordMastertech (Dec 28, 2010)

> In the question and answer period that followed, I asked the former Chief WHY, if you know you are going to ruin a chimney that costs the homeowner or insurance company thousands of dollars, do you not use a dry chemical, like my small town volenteer fire department?His answer, after stumbling a bit, was â€œbudgetary reasons, water costs lessâ€.


Is this before or after they smash the "unlocked" front door with a Axe to gain entry to the house.


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## Xena (Dec 28, 2010)

Deb, sorry to hear of the stove mishap but glad
that nobody was hurt.   I strongly agree with iMacman
and the others about adding a vertical rise to the pipe.
I realize that many have a 3 ft horizontal out the 
side of the house and have had no problems but 
I wouldn't feel comfortable or safe with a setup like that.
Hope you get it straightened out and back to burning 
as soon as possible.


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## Ladderlieu (Jan 2, 2011)

the old ranger said:
			
		

> Ladderlieu,
> 
> Good for you and your fire department.
> 
> ...




NO NO NO Water is the LAST thing we'll put down the chimney only after all other reasonable attempts have failed. (And I'm not talking dumping a hundred gallons down either... ) Maybe we're just a little more "pro-active", but we have an agreement with a company that refills dry chemical extinguishers. They save the "old" stuff for us and we package it in zip-lock sandwich bags. Throw a couple of them down the top of a chimney and you'll be surprised how much fire goes out! Follow that up with a couple window weights on a chain dragged up and down each side of the chimney usually loosens the remaining burning crap and it is removed from the clean-out. Works 99% of the time! 

FWIW, we are also "small town".


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## 2400 (Mar 7, 2011)

Whats a good way to lube it?


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## kofkorn (Mar 7, 2011)

the old ranger said:
			
		

> as the department will douse it with water and likely destroy the chimney.



I'm a former volunteer firefighter.  We've always been trained to NEVER put water down a chimney.  Two reasons:  1) If the chimney is really hot (as it usually is during a chimney fire) you will likely blow the thing to smithereens due to the expanding steam.  2) If you are REALLY lucky, you won't end up with steam burns over good portions of your body due to the same expanding steam.  



			
				Ladderlieu said:
			
		

> They save the "old" stuff for us and we package it in zip-lock sandwich bags. Throw a couple of them down the top of a chimney and you'll be surprised how much fire goes out! Follow that up with a couple window weights on a chain dragged up and down each side of the chimney usually loosens the remaining burning crap and it is removed from the clean-out. Works 99% of the time!



This is exactly the way we were trained.  Two sandwich bags put out every fire we ever had to deal with.  Then run the porcupine through it and tell the homeowner to get a good cleaning.  

FYI, my ABC is less than three feet away from the stove at all times.

I'm glad no one was hurt.  I hope that your stove isn't ruined, even if you don't want to use it yourself you should at least be able to sell it.


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## Don2222 (Mar 7, 2011)

debinri said:
			
		

> Woke up in the middle of the night with the smoke detectors going off... My house was soooo filled with smoke.. We have an alarm service and so fire department was dispatched... YIKES It was horrible and scary... The stove is only 2 years old... Is this normal?? I have never had an issue and its been cleaned anually... The fire department had to put it out with water and I sucked it all out as best as possible.. Its a st croix... I guess I will be calling them and the dealership tomorrow.... UGGG!! I am afraid to use a stove now!! I wont lite it... Got the oil furnace going but gosh $4k and now I will be afraid to use it...
> 
> PS when the fire department came out he said, wow, weird.. the pellets aren't backed up the chute or anything.. Its was just the normal amount of pellets in the pit and then tons of smoke in the hopper... He did say it's probably from the wind (experienceing blizzard like conditions here in Rhode island) I just don't know... I have no confidence with a pellet stove anymore...



Hello Debinri

If you have no vertical rise to your flue exhaust then that is the problem! Case closed. Improper installation!

Do you have any pics?


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## Czech (Mar 7, 2011)

kofkorn said:
			
		

> the old ranger said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## heat seeker (Mar 7, 2011)

I'll add my 2Â¢ - I was advised by a firefighter that an ABC extinguisher is not all that good for a wood/paper fire. A liquid type extinguisher was advised, such as a pressurized water unit. Of course, with water, you need to be careful of electricity.
My Afton bay does not have any sensors in or near the pellet chute. There are sensors on the combustion blower housing, the  plenum (for overtemp), and the vacuum sensor. That's it.
The auger motor sits below the auger, and any dripping from it would end up on the floor of the compartment, doubtful it could catch fire.
I think that there was a backdraft that affected the vacuum switch, causing the stove to shut down. The stove will shut down if it loses vacuum for 60 seconds or more.
While anything is possible, it seems very unlikely that there was a hopper fire. 
I, too, would be very nervous in the future, and have the stove checked out by a pro, but my money is on the loss of vacuum. I installed an OAK for this very reason - my exhaust is on the windward side, and we get lots of strong winds here. So far, no problem. I figure the air pressure will be more balanced in windy conditions with the OAK. I also don't worry about the drier or bathroom vents competing with the stove for air.


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