# Twin widow makers and the neighbor wants them gone



## WiscWoody (Dec 25, 2014)

A neighbor wants me to cut these down from his wood lot. Ones  Poplar and the other is a Sugar Maple. Has anyone cut something like this before? I haven't.... I would think if I notch and hinge them they migh want to go backwards instead of the way I'd like to fall them forward. I'll leave a good exit!


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## Fred Wright (Dec 25, 2014)

Cutting on the ground is not recommended for dropping widowmakers... can you get a bucket truck in there?

If you cut at the base, they'll likely fall to the side. If they fall. A crane or claw would serve to hold the broken tops in place while cutting.

Yep, I'd get a pro to tackle those things.


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## kennyp2339 (Dec 25, 2014)

rope tired to another tree with pressure, then make cut, tighten rope, make another cut, tighten rope, then pull down with quad.


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## Pennsyltucky Chris (Dec 25, 2014)

I'd charge about $2,000 for both.


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## Gboutdoors (Dec 25, 2014)

I do not try to cut them down! If I can pull them down with the tractor or a comealong fine if not then they stay till they come down on their own. Had a big red oak behind the house that would not come down so left it and it came down on it's own a few weeks ago in a rain/ wind storm. BE SAFE.


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## KindredSpiritzz (Dec 25, 2014)

personally, i'd just wade in there and cut them like any other tree, just very slowly and ready to move quick at the first sign of movement.


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## WiscWoody (Dec 25, 2014)

KindredSpiritzz said:


> personally, i'd just wade in there and cut them like any other tree, just very slowly and ready to move quick at the first sign of movement.


That's what I was thinking but it'd be good to know which way they'll come down. I like a good mystery except when it's tons of wood coming down near me! Lol

Edit, I have 50' of winch rope on the ATV and a few hundred feet of chains and straps. I'm thinking I'll make a cut on the side opposite of where I took the picture and pull each one down with the ATV, being a safe distance from the falling trees. The higher I can get the connection up the tree the better. I'll take a better look at it in the spring when I start cutting my rounds again.


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## WiscWoody (Dec 25, 2014)

Pennsyltucky Chris said:


> I'd charge about $2,000 for both.


But I've never charged to take down a tree besides the firewood collected....


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## CountryBoy19 (Dec 25, 2014)

WiscWoody said:


> But I've never charged to take down a tree besides the firewood collected....


When it involves risks where there is an increased liklihood of death or grave injury it's silly NOT to charge... I like to stay alive, I am not a free tree service. If another person cannot respect my desire to stay alive, or justly compensate me for making big risks counter to my goal of staying alive, then I'll just tell them where they can stick it...

If, OTOH, you explain to him that this is very risky, and you aren't comfortable doing it, I'm sure he would understand... if not then you probably don't "need" his wood as bad as he thinks you do, and you can go elsewhere...


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## Creekside (Dec 25, 2014)

KindredSpiritzz said:


> personally, i'd just wade in there and cut them like any other tree, just very slowly and ready to move quick at the first sign of movement.


This is why they're called widowmakers......

Use a throw line to set a pull rope around the broken tops, and pull them down from a safe distance with a winch, truck or whatever.  If you don't have the equipment or experience to do that then you're in over your head.  I hate to be blunt but it would be worse to see someone get hurt.


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## WiscWoody (Dec 25, 2014)

Creekside said:


> This is why they're called widowmakers......
> 
> Use a throw line to set a pull rope around the broken tops, and pull them down from a safe distance with a winch, truck or whatever.  If you don't have the equipment or experience to do that then you're in over your head.  I hate to be blunt but it would be worse to see someone get hurt.


That's good advise. I don't want to be cocky and think I'm the all experienced logger having dropped maybe 15-20 trees in my lifetime. And not all came down the way I would have liked either. Just last fall I cut a maple trunk that was branch less by a pole shed. Well I notched it to fall away from the shed but when I started the felling cut for the hinge it started to lean towards the pole shed. It was only a foot and a half from the building so I put my back on the shed wall and pushed it the opposite way but it went and snapped at the base making me go down with the big log sliding off of the roof right next to me! I thought it would come off of the roof and possibly land on me but it stopped before it came down and I went home to get some clean drawers! Lol. It barely damaged the pole shed which is a snowmobile club house, luckily.... And I was able to bend the tin back with pliers. I was trying to save the shed at my own expense. Not good.


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## Dune (Dec 25, 2014)

KindredSpiritzz said:


> personally, i'd just wade in there and cut them like any other tree, just very slowly and ready to move quick at the first sign of movement.


Faster than a speeding bullet? 
Think before you post please. 
We have an ethical obligation to give safe advice here or say nothing.


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## WiscWoody (Dec 25, 2014)

CountryBoy19 said:


> When it involves risks where there is an increased liklihood of death or grave injury it's silly NOT to charge... I like to stay alive, I am not a free tree service. If another person cannot respect my desire to stay alive, or justly compensate me for making big risks counter to my goal of staying alive, then I'll just tell them where they can stick it...
> 
> If, OTOH, you explain to him that this is very risky, and you aren't comfortable doing it, I'm sure he would understand... if not then you probably don't "need" his wood as bad as he thinks you do, and you can go elsewhere...


I'm not an arborist. If I were then I'd charge of course. I just scrounge for free wood around the rural area I live in to heat my large home on my shoe string budget I have since the Great Recession landed me an old man with much less income than in the recent past. I'll have to look up OTOH... And I can pass on these trees and find other wood easily. Plus... I know that Poplar isn't the greatest wood to burn but I have burned some here and there and it does ok. It's always been dry and it'll heat the house even in the coldest of weather.


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## wahoowad (Dec 25, 2014)

I'd see if I could get a rope/chain/strap over the tops and pull them down until the weight is on the ground.


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## osagebow (Dec 25, 2014)

OTOH -  means" on the other hand". If you can't get em down with the 50' of rope or chain  tell the guy "Sorry, but I ain't no pro". Good luck & stay safe.

A coat on a tight rope or chain keeps it from being a guided missle if it breaks. Learned that here AFTER a close call.

That maple was nice enough to school you. Take it to heart. I have many bonehead moves on my resume, so I ain't judging.


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## Roundgunner (Dec 25, 2014)

As said above I would try to pull it down, If it wouldn't come I would just let it be. A man 2 doors down has been cutting and burning his whole adult life, two years ago he almost lost his leg and did loose the best part of a year for recovery.

Don't get hurt for something silly.


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## BoiledOver (Dec 26, 2014)

Here is a procedure to consider. Keep in mind that I am not an expert at anything, however I have survived 60 or so years doing all kinds of risky things that others would not get near. My largest felling was done with a sledge hammer, an 80' cinder block silo.

A helper or spotter would be of great value. First step would be to get a rope, cable, strap or whatever as high on the standing trunk as possible. Secured to the pulling device in the opposite direction that the tops have fallen. Pull it to almost snug (too much and it will want to cause the drop prematurely). Next, cut your notch on the pull side (opposite of the way the top fell). Get your opposite cut and leave a firm hinge. Attempt your pull, if too much hinge remains, back off to almost snug and take a wee bit out of the hinge, retry pull.

If this was my chore, I would go at it just as described.

Be safe and good luck at whatever you decide.


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## gzecc (Dec 26, 2014)

Also for pulling them down with truck or large tractor and long HD rope/chain. Surely wouldn't do it for free unless they were mine.


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## Byrond (Dec 26, 2014)

I would make my cuts 90 degrees on on side or the other from the side they are broken on and use a rope to bring them down. Had one across my driveway that looked identical


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## Fifelaker (Dec 26, 2014)

I wouldn't use a 4 wheeler to pull them with. I want something heavier than the tree so it doesn't turn the 4 wheeler into a rocket with me on it.


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## Diabel (Dec 26, 2014)

I would wait for nature to take its course. I am sure there are other trees waiting to be processed.


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## saskwoodburner (Dec 27, 2014)

Diabel said:


> I would wait for nature to take its course. I am sure there are other trees waiting to be processed.



I would agree very much with this. A tree on the ground is one thing, but there's a reason people call the professionals to remove trees like this. Could you do it? Maybe. Could you die? It's possible.

I know that a foot long semi seasoned round of poplar weighs a few pounds....30 of them together would really wreck your day if it fell on you.


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## lindnova (Dec 27, 2014)

Roundgunner said:


> As said above I would try to pull it down, If it wouldn't come I would just let it be. A man 2 doors down has been cutting and burning his whole adult life, two years ago he almost lost his leg and did loose the best part of a year for recovery.
> 
> Don't get hurt for something silly.


I would throw a weighted rope over it in a good spot and try to pull them down.  I wouldn't cut them as my reflexes are not as fast as the branch falling on me.  those things could let loose fast.  It is a better job for pros.


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## Mag Craft (Dec 27, 2014)

I have pulled a bunch of trees down using steel cable that I bought made for winches.    I use the 5000 pound cable with loops formed on the ends.   I have enough for 300 feet.


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## Coog (Dec 27, 2014)

Hey, if it was in my backyard and a decent wood, I would consider it.  Otherwise, let it go.  Besides, access looks to be very difficult.


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## WiscWoody (Dec 28, 2014)

Actually access isn't bad, there's a driveway where my ATV is parked and another driveway right by the furthest problem tree in the pictures. If I take the trees down I'll likely do it using a throw rope over the horizantal parts and pulling tjem down from a safe distance as recommended from a few in the thread. There is a lot of scrounge wood up here to be had and I've never had to buy any of my wood so I'll wait and see what comes up before I take time to take these down the safe way. Thanks to all for the advise!


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## Babaganoosh (Dec 28, 2014)

This is one my dad and I took down today. Chains and a winch strapped to a tree behind us.


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## phishman (Dec 30, 2014)

"This is one my dad and I took down today. Chains and a winch strapped to a tree behind us."

how did you get that chain up there and around the stem?
and how strong was the winch?
nice work btw


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## sportbikerider78 (Dec 30, 2014)

Both of those trees look like they are still very much attached to their trunks.  They also look like there is quite a bit holding the other sides up.  I'm not suggesting you do anything, but if you do try to pull them down, you are going to need a great deal of force.


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## Whitepine2 (Dec 30, 2014)

Babaganoosh said:


> This is one my dad and I took down today. Chains and a winch strapped to a tree behind us.



Good job that's the way to do it!


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## 30cal (Dec 31, 2014)

Wait for a windy day...go get trees after windy day..


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## Vikestand (Dec 31, 2014)

Don't make a mountain out of a mole hill. If you have the chain length, I would toss the chain over it and hook to a vehicle/tractor. No big deal. Even a cable and come-along would work just fine. No big deal.


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## BobUrban (Dec 31, 2014)

Fifelaker said:


> New
> I wouldn't use a 4 wheeler to pull them with. I want something heavier than the tree so it doesn't turn the 4 wheeler into a rocket with me on it.



x2  My quad is a little light in the arse to be the ballast for pulling 3-4 or more times its weight when there is no certainty of the fall.  Even in a best case scenario where no one gets hurt it would certainly hurt to see your bike bouncing off trees as that bugger comes down.  us a truck or come along and get the 90 down or pointing down with any potential BACK pressure relieved before tackling the base and then, as mentioned, cut notch/drop perpendicular to the widow maker. 

I did a big oak the other day that was similar in configuration and with preplanning, getting the WM angled to the ground and wedges if fell where I needed.


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## BoiledOver (Dec 31, 2014)

This is becoming an energizer bunny of a thread. Congrats

From the photos WW posted, I would say it will be some time before nature drops them. His neighbor stated their desire in having them taken down.

In my experience, the snap point of a healthy or semi-healthy tree often remains married to the trunk, as does the hinge we create when felling until tree landing.

Woody, if you take this endeavor, best of luck and be safe. In my mind, it is an easy drop.


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## Jon_E (Dec 31, 2014)

I'm going against the grain here.... ok, pun intended.  I would not hesitate to go in and drop either one of those.  A careful evaluation of each one is in order, far more than can be obtained by advice given based on a photo.  If they were my trees, I would drop each one perpendicular to the direction of the broken top.  Open-face notch, bore-cut and wedges.  I'd make sure to have a helper standing by doing nothing but watching the tops.  If either one was being held on by only a tiny bit of wood fiber, I would pull the top down first as a lot of these other guys say.  If I were a betting man, I'd bet the poplar breaks clean and the sugar maple is still held on by a lot of wood fiber.


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## Babaganoosh (Dec 31, 2014)

phishman said:


> "This is one my dad and I took down today. Chains and a winch strapped to a tree behind us."
> 
> how did you get that chain up there and around the stem?
> and how strong was the winch?
> nice work btw




I was actually able to throw the chain up there. If it was higher I'd have thrown a rope up first then pulled the chain up.

The winch was my dads so I'm not sure. I was going to use a come a long but you know how dad's like to take projects away from you. I did all the prep work and he took over the fun part of squeezing the trigger on the winch. haha.

I was thinking you could always get a few 1 pound containers of tannerite, a rifle and blow the tops off!


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## northwinds (Dec 31, 2014)

I've got one that looks just like this near the entrance of my woodlot. It's looked just like this for three years and will continue looking just like this until it falls on its own.  There are other trees to process.  There have been lots of folks seriously hurt by less difficult looking trees. I often think of Gooserider on this forum.   I've cut down lots of standing trees, but I would personally leave those alone.  If he wants them down now, he can pay a professional some money to drop them, and you can clean them up.


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## Vikestand (Jan 1, 2015)

Who/What happened to Gooserider?


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## northwinds (Jan 1, 2015)

Vikestand said:


> Who/What happened to Gooserider?



Gooserider is a former moderator at hearth who was paralyzed in a woodcutting incident.  He used to ride a motorcycle but rides a wheelchair now.  He continued participating for awhile after his accident, but not sure if anyone is still in contact with him.


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## D8Chumley (Jan 1, 2015)

That is sad, and sobering. Reminds me what we all love to do can seriously eff us up even as careful as we try to be.


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## northwinds (Jan 1, 2015)

D8Chumley said:


> That is sad, and sobering. Reminds me what we all love to do can seriously eff us up even as careful as we try to be.



Yeah,  I love cutting down trees.  There's nothing like the rush of a big tree falling in the correct direction and landing on the forest floor.  But bad stuff does happen even for experienced, careful people.  I couldn't find the post detailing Gooserider's accident, but my recollection is that it involved an unpredictable tangle.


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## firefighterjake (Jan 1, 2015)

northwinds said:


> I've got one that looks just like this near the entrance of my woodlot. It's looked just like this for three years and will continue looking just like this until it falls on its own.  There are other trees to process.  There have been lots of folks seriously hurt by less difficult looking trees. I often think of Gooserider on this forum.   I've cut down lots of standing trees, but I would personally leave those alone.  If he wants them down now, he can pay a professional some money to drop them, and you can clean them up.



Same here . . . any time I've got something a bit hairy . . . even when it is just a large branch caught up a few feet in the air I take a minute or two to really figure out the scene and how things could go . . . Gooserider is never far from my thoughts when taking down a tree or anything remotely sketchy.


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## WiscWoody (Jan 4, 2015)

northwinds said:


> I've got one that looks just like this near the entrance of my woodlot. It's looked just like this for three years and will continue looking just like this until it falls on its own.  There are other trees to process.  There have been lots of folks seriously hurt by less difficult looking trees. I often think of Gooserider on this forum.   I've cut down lots of standing trees, but I would personally leave those alone.  If he wants them down now, he can pay a professional some money to drop them, and you can clean them up.


I have heard of this guy and that he was paralyzed by a tree falling on him but I don't know the details. But for that matter I still thought of him seconds after I had a mishap with a tree trunk that I decribed in message 11 in this thread. I came close to having a ton of wood come down on me with no one around to help. I was lucky and that all it was. Sheer luck.


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## ihookem (Jan 4, 2015)

I cut a lot of firewood in Price co. forest crop land and saw those all the time. Noone ever touched those trees. In a few yrs they will come down. I have hurried mother nature by cutting notches on the sides. We left those alone otherwise. A bit of firewood is not worth it.


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## Typ0 (Jan 5, 2015)

Looks like a job for an RPG to me.


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## BoiledOver (Jun 2, 2015)

How ya doin Woody? Did your trees come down on their own for ya?


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## WiscWoody (Jun 13, 2015)

BoiledOver said:


> How ya doin Woody? Did your trees come down on their own for ya?


Hi, I just got my internet back after a forced 90 day hiatus to get a better price for the service. I haven't touched the two trees and I probably won't at least for this year. There's more than enough free wood available already on the ground of non wood burners (same lot of the widow makers too) and all of my racks are full with a four year supply in them plus I still have rounds on pallets for next years refill. Between the $.94 propane and the abundant free wood up here we will be nice and cozy warm this next winter no doubt!


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## BoiledOver (Jun 13, 2015)

Welcome back to the wired world.


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