# Poop Happens



## BrotherBart (Apr 20, 2015)

http://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...-manure-from-its-animals-into-power/26077933/


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## EatenByLimestone (Apr 21, 2015)

BrotherBart said:


> http://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...-manure-from-its-animals-into-power/26077933/



Well, Detroit has been known to be full of it.


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## sloeffle (Apr 21, 2015)

And along those same lines:

http://rt.com/uk/238009-pee-power-urine-electricity/


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## Jags (Apr 21, 2015)

sloeffle said:


> And along those same lines:
> 
> http://rt.com/uk/238009-pee-power-urine-electricity/



"trialed outside the student union bar"
They will be able to light up a light house in that location.


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## begreen (Apr 21, 2015)

There are large anaeorobic digestion systems all around the country and world. Given the potential power in poop one would be a fool to be a cow or pig farmer and not have one, or a least belong to a coop managing one. Locally King County has an anaerobic digestion system munching through lots of local human poop and producing MWs of power. The digested sludge makes a very good fertilizer too. I'm thinking of trying it out this year.


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## BrotherBart (Apr 21, 2015)

People compost the strangest things using it.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/04/21/man-found-dead-wife-charged/26125341/


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## SidecarFlip (Apr 22, 2015)

EatenByLimestone said:


> Well, Detroit has been known to be full of it.


 
So is NYC but thats not the point is it?

I could probably heat my cattle barn with the heat of decomposition from my compost pile where I compost culled steers.  It's always steaming in the winter.

In 90 days I can completely compost an adult steer, even the skull and hip bones.  Makes you wonder if maybe Jimmy Hoffa was composted.


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## begreen (Apr 22, 2015)

Here are a local couple farm coops producing power, heat, reducing nitrate intrusion and getting a good fertilizer too.
http://www.harvestcleanenergy.org/featured-stories/rainier-biogas-dairy-digester-breaks-ground.html
http://qualco-energy.org/about-qualco/
http://qualco-energy.org/about-qualco/
and here's a video of an operation up in Bellingham


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## Highbeam (Apr 22, 2015)

begreen said:


> The digested sludge makes a very good fertilizer too. I'm thinking of trying it out this year.



I have been using our local treatment plant's bioslolids waste product for years on my lawn and garden. It is burnt to be safe, pelletized, and distributed for free as a Class A biosolids product. They provide the NPP numbers for it and they are very low so you can use it aggressively. Works very well and the price is right.


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## begreen (Apr 22, 2015)

Would that be GroCo or does your county have another product? How and where is it sold?


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## BrotherBart (Apr 22, 2015)

A large farm west of here uses sludge on hundreds of acres. The road I used to use to go to work runs through the farm and it was an olfactory adventure every morning driving to work in warm weather.


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## SidecarFlip (Apr 22, 2015)

Nice video on anerobic digesters.

Mine is crude but effective and I incorporate the 'cooked' off compost on my fields regularly.  Used to be (in the past) we were prohibited from composting carcasses by state law (had to have the hauled away and destroyed at a sizeable expense), bu the state finally came to their senses and realized that composting provided a needed nutrient flow to the ground so aboiut 10 years ago, the law was changed.

Right now, we are at a 45 animal/year compost maximum, something that I don't even come close to.  Over 45 head, the containment structure has to be solid concrete floored with containment walls and liquid effulent capture.  Under 45 head can be composted on the ground so long as the compost area is 500 feet from any water source or creek.

My garden loves the stuff too.


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## SidecarFlip (Apr 22, 2015)

BrotherBart said:


> A large farm west of here uses sludge on hundreds of acres. The road I used to use to go to work runs through the farm and it was an olfactory adventure every morning driving to work in warm weather.


 
N always stinks.  Thats the 'smell' of money.


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## SidecarFlip (Apr 22, 2015)

Landfills are huge producers of Methane gas from decomposition of garbage and bio-degradeable waste.  Most established landfills will have an on-site power generation facility, selling power to the grid to offset landfill costs.

No fertilizer but plenty of methane gas to power 4 stroke stationary engines spinning gensets.


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## Highbeam (Apr 22, 2015)

begreen said:


> Would that be GroCo or does your county have another product? How and where is it sold?



Many cities have their own treatment plants. I am finding the fertilizer at the City of Sumner which is near Tacoma, about10,000 residents. Note that you can get this as fertilizer 100% strength or you can get a topsoil where they add sand and sawdust. Tacoma does the mix and makes a product called Tagro. Sumner is only 100%.

From the city it is free and there is a covered bin that is available 24/7 with a fresh pile. You can call ahead an have them load your truck with a bobcat or you can order a 10 yard dump for free if you're pretty close to the plant. It's a waste product for them so there is no charge.

You've got to understand that this is a sludge product so it will have a smell for a few days if surface broadcast but no smell when you till it in. Also, if you look real close you can see hair/lint that is not digestable and that may gross you out if you're weak in the stomach.

I usually bring empty garbage cans and fill them in the bed of the truck. The stuff is dense so you won't be able to move a full garbage can. Sometimes it is even pretty warm if it is fresh from the oven. You an spread it with a regular rotary broadcast spreader.


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## SidecarFlip (Apr 22, 2015)

A bit of hair/lint never hurt any growing plant.......


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## Jags (Apr 22, 2015)

Highbeam said:


> 24/7 with a fresh pile



Must...stop.......sophomore filter ON........


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## DougA (Apr 22, 2015)

BrotherBart said:


> A large farm west of here uses sludge on hundreds of acres. The road I used to use to go to work runs through the farm and it was an olfactory adventure every morning driving to work in warm weather.


Ontario has strict regulations for human sludge on farm lands. It can only be applied once every few years and crops cannot be grown for human consumption after applying.  Not sure on the time limit for either of those.  Human sludge is chock full of bad stuff from prescription drugs to heavy metals that industries still flush into the sanitary sewer systems.  Cooking it does not get rid of the heavy metals.

There are groups that show up quite regularly at the council meetings to protest using sludge for any farm use. I'm not quite that much of an activist but all of this ends up in our tap water with lots of the bad stuff still present, just the live bad stuff is killed in treatment.  I'm thankful our 30 yr old well still has water in it and there are no active farms within a few miles of me BUT my water definitely has more iron and sulfur than it used to.  That's not a good sign.

Maybe everyone should jam a cork up their butt for Earth Day and the problem would be solved.


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## Jags (Apr 22, 2015)

DougA said:


> chock full of bad stuff from prescription drugs to heavy metals



Doug - this was also my understanding.  There is a similar plant several miles from me but they do not recommend using it for gardens or any human consumed farming.  Maybe there are different processing methods??


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## SidecarFlip (Apr 22, 2015)

Jags said:


> Doug - this was also my understanding.  There is a similar plant several miles from me but they do not recommend using it for gardens or any human consumed farming.  Maybe there are different processing methods??


 
We have the same guidelines here fort application of municipal sludge, cannot be applied to ground used for the production of human foodstuffs (directly) fior a period of 5 years after application.  I don't believe it has to do with the processing but more with the pollutants in suspension in the sludge....

People tend to flush everything down the commodes today, things that really shouldn't be in the liquid waste stream.  In retrospect, there is no regulation concerning application of composted materials (animals from operations such as mine) on ground used for production of directly consumed crops because composting of livestock is entirely different than human treated waste.  It all has to do with the waste stream itself.


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## SidecarFlip (Apr 22, 2015)

I forgot to add that municipal sludge/waste (here in Michigan) must be knifed in and/or injected underground, immediately and cannot lay fallow on the surface because of runoff considerations.  That also applies to cattle manure in containment ponds, liquified for application.


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## begreen (Apr 22, 2015)

Highbeam said:


> Many cities have their own treatment plants. I am finding the fertilizer at the City of Sumner which is near Tacoma, about10,000 residents. Note that you can get this as fertilizer 100% strength or you can get a topsoil where they add sand and sawdust. Tacoma does the mix and makes a product called Tagro. Sumner is only 100%.
> 
> From the city it is free and there is a covered bin that is available 24/7 with a fresh pile. You can call ahead an have them load your truck with a bobcat or you can order a 10 yard dump for free if you're pretty close to the plant. It's a waste product for them so there is no charge.
> 
> ...


OK, this sounds like sewage sludge, similar to Milorganite. The stuff that comes from an anaerobic digester does not smell, it's been predigested. They mix it 3 to 1 with sawdust and compost it. The result is a great fertilizer with no concerns of pathogens, heavy metals, etc..


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## begreen (Apr 22, 2015)

SidecarFlip said:


> I forgot to add that municipal sludge/waste (here in Michigan) must be knifed in and/or injected underground, immediately and cannot lay fallow on the surface because of runoff considerations.  That also applies to cattle manure in containment ponds, liquified for application.



Looks like Michigan's universities and colleges are investigating this. I know Wisconsin has and demonstrated AD benefits. It also helps mitigate the runoff of nitrates. It's a win-win solution. Europe figured this out a decade or more back, China and India, many decades back. We are catching up. But the good thing is the Europeans have refined solutions nicely. This product can be applied immediately to the ground locally. Not sure about MI.

http://www.egr.msu.edu/bae/adrec/
http://msutoday.msu.edu/news/2013/n...r-to-supply-power-for-south-campus-buildings/


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## SidecarFlip (Apr 22, 2015)

There was a DEQ/local dairy smackdown over application practices and the resultant runoff because we have a big, ongoing issue with toxic algae blooms growing in lake Erie.  The DEQ basically put the diary out of business (was a 'Hoff' operation (Verba-Hoff).  They folded up and Milksource bought the CAFO's and brought them into compliance.

There is ver little tolerance for non-compliance in this area today.  You do it according to GAMP regulations or you cease doing business. (GAMP) Generally Accepted Manure Management Practices....

Sludge application here, is pretty widespread but all the applicators are state licensed and the contracted land is closely monitored for specific crops.  It has to be.  Now, if we can just get the oil well drillers to practice acceptable methods, all will be well.  There is an ongoing issue with brine injection into soluble limestone here. and thats coming to a head as well.  It seems that well drillers, because they aren't local, have a 'we could care less about the local enviroment' attitude.  I the last 15 years, oil has been found here in commercially viable quantities.

BTW, the digesters work for CAFO's and mega farms but for the smaller operators, the expense isn't justifiable.


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## begreen (Apr 22, 2015)

That's why I posted the link to the Rainier farm. Farmers here form a local coop and deliver the manure sludge to a common digester. They usually serve 7-10 farms.


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## SidecarFlip (Apr 22, 2015)

Inherent costs in transportation as well as the investment in the rolling stock is pretty high in itself.  I'm happy MSU is using my tax dollars for a digester and I'm sure the ag college generates enough manure to keep it full.

We don't run enough head to justify the cost of a system and, under GAMP we can, under guidelines, do direct incorporation of manure.  Our manure is semi-solid, mixed with straw, unlike diary manure thats a slurry.


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## begreen (Apr 22, 2015)

The best use of AD is municipal sewerage. This provides a continuous predictable feedstock that is high in energy content. But there are also some good successes showing up on college campuses that have a steady stream of food waste. Uof W in Oshkosh has both a dairy digester system and one on the campus that has been successful enough that they are expanding it to take the city of Oskosh's food waste too.


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## Highbeam (Apr 22, 2015)

begreen said:


> OK, this sounds like sewage sludge, similar to Milorganite. The stuff that comes from an anaerobic digester does not smell, it's been predigested. They mix it 3 to 1 with sawdust and compost it. The result is a great fertilizer with no concerns of pathogens, heavy metals, etc..



Of course it was sewage sludge but it is after the anaerobic digester and you are wrong about the smell, there is certainly a smell, just not like a fresh pile of poo. Mixing it 3:1 with sawdust and composting it yet again does NOT remove heavy metals. The pathogens are killed by burning it, that's what makes it class A biosolids. It ends up bone dry and "granular". There are metals in it but not much, it is legal for distribution as fertilizer. The pickup point has a sheet that discloses tested levels of all kinds of things including metals along with the allowable limits.


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## DougA (Apr 22, 2015)

I read the other day that human waste is full of gold.  I'll start working on an invention for a gold magnet as soon as I perfect the chick magnet.  

One of the problems with human waste is that it is full of hormones from birth control pills.  I'm going to work on recycling waste into dollar store birth control pills.  

OK, I'll crawl back to my cave now.


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## begreen (Apr 23, 2015)

Highbeam said:


> Of course it was sewage sludge but it is after the anaerobic digester and you are wrong about the smell, there is certainly a smell, just not like a fresh pile of poo. Mixing it 3:1 with sawdust and composting it yet again does NOT remove heavy metals. The pathogens are killed by burning it, that's what makes it class A biosolids. It ends up bone dry and "granular". There are metals in it but not much, it is legal for distribution as fertilizer. The pickup point has a sheet that discloses tested levels of all kinds of things including metals along with the allowable limits.


Of course mixing it does not remove heavy metals. Never said that. I'm only speaking of GroCo, when I mentioned the heavy metal content. This product has been well tested and has lower heavy metal, herbicide and pesticide content than composted green waste. Milorganite has been tested with higher heavy metal content. That's why I mentioned it. I haven't found the Pierce county product. What is the name of the product you are using? Can you provide some links to the product(s) data and testing?

http://www.kingcounty.gov/environment/wastewater/Biosolids/GardenCompost/GroCoSafety.aspx


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## begreen (Apr 23, 2015)

DougA said:


> I read the other day that human waste is full of gold.  I'll start working on an invention for a gold magnet as soon as I perfect the chick magnet.
> 
> One of the problems with human waste is that it is full of hormones from birth control pills.  I'm going to work on recycling waste into dollar store birth control pills.
> 
> OK, I'll crawl back to my cave now.


Actually you are not far off, the main issue is antibiotics. We take them in mass quantities. That is the highest pollutant from our solid waste facility.


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## Dune (Apr 24, 2015)

BrotherBart said:


> People compost the strangest things using it.
> 
> http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/04/21/man-found-dead-wife-charged/26125341/


Good in the short term but not truly sustainable.


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## Ambient (Apr 24, 2015)

begreen said:


> OK, this sounds like sewage sludge, similar to Milorganite. The stuff that comes from an anaerobic digester does not smell, it's been predigested. They mix it 3 to 1 with sawdust and compost it. The result is a great fertilizer with no concerns of pathogens, heavy metals, etc..


I've used this product for years on our lawns, I'm not sure it would be a good fit for the gardens.


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## begreen (Apr 28, 2015)

Looks like Detroit's neighbors want to get in on some zoo power of their own. 
http://www.pri.org/stories/2015-04-27/torontos-zoo-plans-turn-its-animal-waste-electricity


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## SidecarFlip (Apr 28, 2015)

Toronto is quite a ways from Detroit.  Much closer to Buffalo actually.


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## begreen (Apr 28, 2015)

You're right. But closer than it is to Seattle.


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## SidecarFlip (Apr 28, 2015)

begreen said:


> You're right. But closer than it is to Seattle.


 
Fair statement.  Never been to Seattle or Toronto.  Don't it rain constantly up there?


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## DougA (Apr 28, 2015)

SidecarFlip said:


> Don't it rain constantly up there?


Seattle, Toronto, Buffalo or Detroit?

It snows a lot in Buffalo.


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## begreen (Apr 28, 2015)

SidecarFlip said:


> Fair statement.  Never been to Seattle or Toronto.  Don't it rain constantly up there?


Definitely, we're covered in moss here. No one has a tan. If they look like they do it's actually rust.


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## BrotherBart (Apr 28, 2015)

Annual rainfall in Seattle: 37.7 inches. Annual rainfall here: 39.7 + da snow.


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## begreen (Apr 28, 2015)

Shhhh!


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## SidecarFlip (Apr 28, 2015)

begreen said:


> Definitely, we're covered in moss here. No one has a tan. If they look like they do it's actually rust.


 

The mushroom population is probably good though.......


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## begreen (Apr 28, 2015)

Indeed. We grow them between our toes.


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## BrotherBart (Apr 28, 2015)

Leave an oak log on the ground here and you have a fungus farm in a heartbeat. Every split I burned this season still had the stuff on it. Next years has too.

A 90 footer hung up down in the woods for the last three years is covered with the stuff from top to bottom.


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## begreen (Apr 28, 2015)

Might be worth identifying. Could be a goldmine of edible shrooms.


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## BrotherBart (Apr 28, 2015)

A neighbor actually farms mushrooms on oak logs.


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## Ashful (Apr 28, 2015)

SidecarFlip said:


> Over 45 head, the containment structure has to be solid concrete floored with containment walls and liquid effulent capture.  Under 45 head can be composted on the ground so long as the compost area is 500 feet from any water source or creek.


Can you do more, if you remove their heads?


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## BrotherBart (Apr 28, 2015)




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## billb3 (Apr 29, 2015)

Highbeam said:


> Many cities have their own treatment plants. I am finding the fertilizer at the City of Sumner which is near Tacoma, about10,000 residents. Note that you can get this as fertilizer 100% strength or you can get a topsoil where they add sand and sawdust. Tacoma does the mix and makes a product called Tagro. Sumner is only 100%.
> 
> From the city it is free and there is a covered bin that is available 24/7 with a fresh pile. You can call ahead an have them load your truck with a bobcat or you can order a 10 yard dump for free if you're pretty close to the plant. It's a waste product for them so there is no charge.
> 
> ...





If you look real close how many toxic heavy metals can you see ?


Our town's treatment sludge is mixed with bark/wood chips/sawdust  and bulk sold to  a  company that bags it as potting soil. It is intended as a flower growing medium and not for vegetables or anything edible.


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## Highbeam (Apr 29, 2015)

That's just the yuk factor. Turns out that the sewage plant liquid effluent, what goes to the rivers, is actually cleaner than the drinking water. Certainly cleaner than the river water in the receiving river. We should drink it right? The yuk factor will always prevent it.


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## Highbeam (Apr 29, 2015)

billb3 said:


> If you look real close how many toxic heavy metals can you see ?
> 
> 
> Our town's treatment sludge is mixed with bark/wood chips/sawdust  and bulk sold to  a  company that bags it as potting soil. It is intended as a flower growing medium and not for vegetables or anything edible.



Ha! you can't see anything but black dirt and hair. The concentration of other things is extremely low as is any associated risk. People like to worry about the strangest things.

We affectionately call it Butt Dust.


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## Highbeam (Apr 29, 2015)

begreen said:


> Of course mixing it does not remove heavy metals. Never said that. I'm only speaking of GroCo, when I mentioned the heavy metal content. This product has been well tested and has lower heavy metal, herbicide and pesticide content than composted green waste. Milorganite has been tested with higher heavy metal content. That's why I mentioned it. I haven't found the Pierce county product. What is the name of the product you are using? Can you provide some links to the product(s) data and testing?
> 
> http://www.kingcounty.gov/environment/wastewater/Biosolids/GardenCompost/GroCoSafety.aspx



Here's the stuff I use.

http://ci.sumner.wa.us/living/environment/sumner-grow/

"Safe to use in all gardens"


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## Ashful (Apr 29, 2015)

Hmm... "this replaces chemical fertilizers," but they offer no N-P-K analysis.


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## begreen (Apr 30, 2015)

There is a notable difference from sewerage sludge that is dried and directly composted and sewerage sludge that is anaerobically digested, then added to compost. Predigestion by anaerobic bacteria appears to produce a more refined and pathogen free material. It would be good to see an A/B comparison of these materials. That said, the Sumner product has a very nice advantage... free by the truckload.


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## begreen (Apr 30, 2015)

Ashful said:


> Hmm... "this replaces chemical fertilizers," but they offer no N-P-K analysis.


This product is not a commercial fertilizer. Nutrient concentrations are estimates based on prior analyses but are not guaranteed concentrations.
Total Nitrogen (N) 4.3%
Phosphorus (P) 2.7%
Potassium (K) 0.15%

Looks like one needs to add a potassium source like greensand, wood ash or kelp meal for balance.


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## Ashful (Apr 30, 2015)

... or just put down a balanced chemical fertilizer.  It's good thing they've found a use for this waste product, but I dont see this as being a practical means of maintaining a balanced lawn, without controlled nutrient concentration.  It's enough trouble keeping all factors in the green zone using commercial fertilizers and twice-yearly laboratory soil analysis.  Free is good, but I'd be frustrated having less than ideal results, for time invested in retrieving and putting down this product.


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## begreen (Apr 30, 2015)

I can see why Highbeam likes it, free is a good price.


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## Ashful (Apr 30, 2015)

Highbeam has some property, if I recall.  Can't imagine loading a half ton of this stuff with that shovel!

I put down approx 3600 lb. of chemical fertilizer, and 1000 - 3000 lb. of lime per year... and my lawn is not THAT large.


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## begreen (Apr 30, 2015)

Could be fields if it is like our property. We put down zero on our lawn. All fertilizer is limited to gardens.


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## Highbeam (Apr 30, 2015)

begreen said:


> I can see why Highbeam likes it, free is a good price.



Nothing is free but this is close. I don't live on a golf course or feel like my lawn needs to look like a golf course. I mow it, it's green, I don't water it. The lawn is much greener and grows much faster after applying this biosolid stuff. I've never tested my soil or know anybody that has. I don't even buy chemical fertilizer anymore.

I had one good friend with about one acre of new lawn ready to rototill it under because it wasn't green enough and never took off when he built his house. We spread the biosolids heavily and he was very happy with the recovery. It has been several years now.

I maintain about an acre of lawn. I load garbage cans about half full with the stuff and then scoop it into a walk behind rotary spreader. The process is not unlike any other fertilizer except the application rate is higher.

Ideally a guy cold load this stuff into a big fertilizer spreader on the 3ph of a tractor and put down massive quantities overa large area but you would need two tractors. One to hold th spreader and another to load the hopper. Maybe one of those old tow behind manure spreaders would work.


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## begreen (Apr 30, 2015)

Our lawn is an equal opportunity lawn. There's equal opportunity for grass, clover, dandelions and moss. Come late summer it's all brown anyway, except over the septic field.


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## sloeffle (Apr 30, 2015)

Ashful said:


> I put down approx 3600 lb. of chemical fertilizer, and 1000 - 3000 lb. of lime per year... and my lawn is not THAT large.


Holy crap. You must have the nicest lawn in America. I have a 12 acres in hay / pasture and I don't put down that much fertilizer or lime. $600 a ton for fertilizer breaks the bank really fast.


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## Ashful (Apr 30, 2015)

It beats the grass at any public course, but it's not up to private club standards.


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## Cynnergy (Apr 30, 2015)

begreen said:


> Our lawn is an equal opportunity lawn. There's equal opportunity for grass, clover, dandelions and moss. Come late summer it's all brown anyway, except over the septic field.



I don't understand people who try to get rid of moss - it stays green and you don't have to mow it.  What's not to like?


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## Cynnergy (Apr 30, 2015)

Ashful said:


> I put down approx 3600 lb. of chemical fertilizer, and 1000 - 3000 lb. of lime per year... and my lawn is not THAT large.



Where does your lawn drain to?  Non point source pollution from fertilizer runoff is a huge issue.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_zone_(ecology)

Phosphorus isn't too bad (it adsorbs to soil particles and isn't very mobile), but the nitrogen is soluble and just goes wherever the water goes (if it isn't taken up by plants).


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## DBoon (May 1, 2015)

BrotherBart said:


> A neighbor actually farms mushrooms on oak logs.



And to think that you are throwing all those valuable mushroom covered logs into your fireplace every winter!


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## Ashful (May 1, 2015)

Cynnergy said:


> Where does your lawn drain to?


A neighbor's lawn.  The portion of his lawn adjacent to mine is the only decent bit of lawn he has.

Picking up 1500 lb. of Calcitic Lime on my way home today.


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## Jags (May 1, 2015)

If I can't eat it, I don't encourage it to grow.  I love when my lawn turns a nice shade of brown in mid summer.


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## Ashful (May 1, 2015)

Jags, I watch many neighbors mowing dust and weeds in our hot and dry July weather, while my perfect weed-free lawn just stops and stays dormant for 5-6 weeks.  Around here, weeds grow all summer, grass does not.

What's funny is those folks who chide my fast growing lawn in spring never have much to say while they're mowing weeds and choking on dust at 95F in July, while I'm relaxing by the pool.


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## Jags (May 1, 2015)

My yard just "quits".  And I love it when that happens.


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## sloeffle (May 1, 2015)

Ashful said:


> Picking up 1500 lb. of Calcitic Lime on my way home today.


Assuming that you add lime and fertilizer per a soil test ? If you do any re-seeding I would look into the lower maintenance fine fescues that they have now. They require 50% less water and fertilizer.

Personally I can care less what my lawn looks like. I live out in the country and trying to keep weeds ( I am okay with clover since it asphyxiates nitrogen ) out of my lawn would be a never ending process.


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## begreen (May 1, 2015)

Come late July or early August we just stop mowing until the rains wake up the grass and weed again in late Sept or Oct..


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## Ashful (May 1, 2015)

sloeffle said:


> Assuming that you add lime and fertilizer per a soil test ? If you do any re-seeding I would look into the lower maintenance fine fescues that they have now. They require 50% less water and fertilizer.


Yep... twice yearly soil tests, and the last one put my pH right on the lower boundary of ideal, recommending 21C (21 lb./1000 sq.ft. calcitic lime).  I'm shooting shy of that, partly due to wanting to do this in a single shot (my pickup can only haul 1500 lb./trip), and because I'm really not that far off ideal to be really too concerned.

I'm seeding yearly with tall fescue, which has always been named ideal for our climate, but will check out your fine fescues.  Most of the lower maintenance strands are historically pretty rough and scraggly, not as attractive.


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## begreen (May 1, 2015)

Looks like this thread is down to the ground. Closing.


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