# Large wood stove in a pole barn....



## Ducky (Jun 12, 2016)

a few years ago I bought a stove 2x the size of the one in my sig..a big stove with blower heated my 2200 sq ft concrete block building, with 12' ceilings..with ease...like it was no problem leaving the 10x10' overhead door open for 20'minutes when it was 5F outside lol

With that said I moved to a new place with a 1650 sq ft pole barn with 18' ceilings...I need to create/insulate the ceiling/roof this summer

So should I go straight up and out?  Or should I go out a side and do a 90 angle?

I currently have 1/2" pex on 12" centers on 100' runs running through the new concrete floor I installed. Planning to possibly use a couple hot water tanks or maybe a used boiler running on propane.  However I have never used such a system and really don't want to have a problem so some help here would be appreciated


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## begreen (Jun 12, 2016)

Go straight up and locate the stove centrally if possible.


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## Highbeam (Jun 12, 2016)

Ducky said:


> a few years ago I bought a stove 2x the size of the one in my sig..a big stove with blower heated my 2200 sq ft concrete block building, with 12' ceilings..with ease...like it was no problem leaving the 10x10' overhead door open for 20'minutes when it was 5F outside lol
> 
> With that said I moved to a new place with a 1650 sq ft pole barn with 18' ceilings...I need to create/insulate the ceiling/roof this summer
> 
> ...



Whoa! I have your barn. l am the future you. Mine is 1800 sf, 14' ceiling, all insulated including 2" foam under the slab that has 1800 lf of 1/2" pex in it for future radiant heat.

First, on the radiant. It is extremely expensive and complicated to get that system running. Unless you are out there full time it's not worth it. My floor is ready but likely will never be used.

Stove. If you insist on a woodstove get the biggest plate steel model you can find. You will be running it hard all the time so you want a workhorse. Honestly, a wood furnace with or without ducting is smarter than a stove. And for several reasons the superior way to route the exhaust is vertically all the way through the roof. I chose a 600$ Englander nc30 woodstove since it is big, cheap, and has a great reputation. Wood furnaces weren't or aren't legal in Washington.

It would only cost you about 1000$ to hang a propane unit heater from the ceiling and be done with it if you are willing to use fossil fuel forced air heat.


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## Sconnie Burner (Jun 12, 2016)

Remeber if you use wood you will have to clean the chimney at least once if not twice a season. I would do a T and run up the outside if you don't like heights or have a slippery tin roof. Then you can clean from bottom up through the T. Not the best way but maybe safer. Especially if using a wood furnace as those tend to have more creosote isssues than an EPA stove that burns cleaner.

Another plan if budget isn't an issue: Hook up an outdoor wood boiler into the pex. Or atleast use a propane unit to maintain a temp and use the woodstove to warm things up the night before and during the weekends when you will be out there.


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## Highbeam (Jun 12, 2016)

Sconnie Burner said:


> Remeber if you use wood you will have to clean the chimney at least once if not twice a season. I would do a T and run up the outside if you don't like heights or have a slippery tin roof. Then you can clean from bottom up through the T. Not the best way but maybe safer. Especially if using a wood furnace as those tend to have more creosote isssues than an EPA stove that burns cleaner.
> 
> Another plan if budget isn't an issue: Hook up an outdoor wood boiler into the pex. Or atleast use a propane unit to maintain a temp and use the woodstove to warm things up the night before and during the weekends when you will be out there.



Oh no, you just clean bottom up with a sooteater, easy peasy. Right through the open stove door or bottom of an interior tee if you have a rear vent stove. You should only have to go on the roof to clean a spark arrestor if you're silly enough to have one. 

There are now epa furnaces. Quite effective and much much lower cost than any sort of boiler.


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## begreen (Jun 12, 2016)

+1 to bottom up cleaning with a sooteater. Burn good dry wood and your chimney may end up with very little to clean.


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## Sconnie Burner (Jun 12, 2016)

Forgot about the sooteater. Yes, through the stove works if you don't pick one with fragile, or PIA, to remove baffle boards. And if it has a ceramic blanket, plan on replacing that every 2-3 years as they start to get fragile and degrade with each removal/handling.
An EPA furnace would be probably a better choice to push a good amount of heat and get you a better firebox volume for longer burns.


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## bholler (Jun 13, 2016)

Sconnie Burner said:


> Forgot about the sooteater. Yes, through the stove works if you don't pick one with fragile, or PIA, to remove baffle boards. And if it has a ceramic blanket, plan on replacing that every 2-3 years as they start to get fragile and degrade with each removal/handling.


You can also brush from the bottom.  And honestly I would suggest that everyone pull apart the interior of their stove annually.  If you don't when you need to take things apart to service or replace parts the chances of things coming apart without breaking are not very good.  When you put things back together coat the treads with high temp anti seize and things will come right apart the next year.   And if you pay attention you can easily pull ceramic fiber baffles without damaging them


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## Highbeam (Jun 13, 2016)

For giggles, pics of the stove in the shop plus my unused but ready pex heat in the slab.


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## begreen (Jun 13, 2016)

+1 to bottom up cleaning with a sooteater. Burn good dry wood and your chimney may end up with very little to clean.


bholler said:


> You can also brush from the bottom.  And honestly I would suggest that everyone pull apart the interior of their stove annually.  If you don't when you need to take things apart to service or replace parts the chances of things coming apart without breaking are not very good.  When you put things back together coat the treads with high temp anti seize and things will come right apart the next year.   And if you pay attention you can easily pull ceramic fiber baffles without damaging them


This depends on the stove design. For example, this is not an issue with a PE stove. There are no screws in the removal of the combo baffle/secondary system. Just pull the pin, lift, tilt and remove the assembly.


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## bholler (Jun 13, 2016)

begreen said:


> This depends on the stove design. For example, this is not an issue with a PE stove. There are no screws in the removal of the combo baffle/secondary system. Just pull the pin, lift, tilt and remove the assembly.


Yes absolutely the design of some stoves will keep you from cleaning from the bottom even with a rotary cleaner.


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## Highbeam (Jun 13, 2016)

bholler said:


> Yes absolutely the design of some stoves will keep you from cleaning from the bottom even with a rotary cleaner.



And on those you can remove a chunk of interior pipe and still run your brush or sooteater up from the bottom. I don't expect to go on my roof anymore.


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## bholler (Jun 13, 2016)

Highbeam said:


> And on those you can remove a chunk of interior pipe and still run your brush or sooteater up from the bottom. I don't expect to go on my roof anymore.


We still go on the roof plenty but If I can avoid that risk I do


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## electrathon (Jun 13, 2016)

Highbeam said:


> For giggles, pics of the stove in the shop plus my unused but ready pex heat in the slab.


Floor heat is the most awesome heat form ever.  You will be very happy with it hooked up.


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## Ducky (Jan 23, 2019)

I know this thread is 2.5 years old... I started it....LOL

I still have zero heat in my barn, I havent dont the ceiling yet as orginization of all my crap took longer than expected.  That summer I spent ALL summer, and fall just getting it to the point where I could get my work truck in there.

Summer of 17 was spent fine tuning the barn, and other crap, 18 I slacked off pretty hard lol  not gonna lie...

19 I hope to finally get the ceiling atleast to the point of being insulated.  I found 84 lumb sells 4x50' rolls of R something fiberglass with a vinyl backer for $100  - thats cheap enough... I might be able to get it cheaper per roll if I can convince my neighbor to go in with me (his barn is 2400sq ft)

I figure I need a scissor lift and a cherry picker... need to consult with my people about what they recommend as moving stuff is pretty much out of the question, so I have to go up and over...

Still on the fence with heat...  the gas company is coming down my road in the next 18 months... so that may be an option... I have done quite a bit of research on pex heat and manafolds,  my local HD has manafolds for like $50 each for 8 lines.....reasonable...

but thats still on the back burner...

Ill keep my thread updated however.


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## bholler (Jan 24, 2019)

If not gas is an option I would do that without question


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## SpaceBus (Jan 24, 2019)

I plan on building a pole barn over a slab in the next few years as my health allows. My plan was to start with an open sided structure and slowly enclose it. I also have an old 1975 Defiant I plan on rebuilding to heat said structure. Any advice from those who have built such a structure? The plan is to clear an area and use the trees I cut for as much of the building materials as possible. Before I start this larger project I plan on building an alpaca corral and a small barn/manger for them to sleep in.


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## Highbeam (Jan 24, 2019)

SpaceBus said:


> I plan on building a pole barn over a slab in the next few years as my health allows. My plan was to start with an open sided structure and slowly enclose it. I also have an old 1975 Defiant I plan on rebuilding to heat said structure. Any advice from those who have built such a structure? The plan is to clear an area and use the trees I cut for as much of the building materials as possible. Before I start this larger project I plan on building an alpaca corral and a small barn/manger for them to sleep in.



For all things garage/shop/barn this is the place. They even have a heating section with all of the shop options.

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/


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## SpaceBus (Jan 24, 2019)

Highbeam said:


> For all things garage/shop/barn this is the place. They even have a heating section with all of the shop options.
> 
> https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/



Do they have any threads about building pole structures? The threads I see are more about lifts, fabricating parts/race cars, and mostly post construction topics. These are still topics I am very much interested in, so thanks for the link.


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## Highbeam (Jan 24, 2019)

SpaceBus said:


> Do they have any threads about building pole structures? The threads I see are more about lifts, fabricating parts/race cars, and mostly post construction topics. These are still topics I am very much interested in, so thanks for the link.



Many pole barn shop threads. I too built a pole barn and finished it out. You can search forums with google by choosing terms "pole garagejournal" to get started.


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## bholler (Jan 24, 2019)

I also have to mention if this building is going to be used for working on cars or if gasoline will be present in the building it is against code to use a solid fuel appliance.


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## Highbeam (Jan 24, 2019)

Does the code actually say “working on cars”? 

Canadians don’t have that rule.


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## bholler (Jan 24, 2019)

Highbeam said:


> Does the code actually say “working on cars”?
> 
> Canadians don’t have that rule.


No it doesn't I have linked to and quoted the code for you many times you know what it says.  And you can't work on or store a vehicle that runs on gasoline in a building without having gasoline present.  That makes it against code.  Not to mention if you are working on or storing a vehicle in that structure it is a garage which it is clearly stated solid fuel burners can't be installed in.

And you are right Canadian code allows this if certain conditions are met.  And I agree with their code much more than ours but the recent poster was from NY not Canada so it doesn't matter what Canadian code is


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## Highbeam (Jan 24, 2019)

bholler said:


> No it doesn't I have linked to and quoted the code for you many times you know what it says.  And you can't work on or store a vehicle that runs on gasoline in a building without having gasoline present.  That makes it against code.  Not to mention if you are working on or storing a vehicle in that structure it is a garage which it is clearly stated solid fuel burners can't be installed in.



It would be helpful if you actually quoted the code for all of us to interpret it. Also, I don't think the OP was going to build a garage but a shop.

Seriously, think about everybody that might read this thread and how the actual code means so much more than your personal interpretation. You obviously feel strongly about it so why don't you be helpful and follow through.? As a "staff" member you owe us the documentation for your claims.

You should also know that lots of our readers are canadians.


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## WinterinWI (Jan 24, 2019)

I wonder if it's code to put your outside air intake next to a driveway. Where someone might park their old beater with a leaky gas line.


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## bholler (Jan 24, 2019)

Highbeam said:


> It would be helpful if you actually quoted the code for all of us to interpret it. Also, I don't think the OP was going to build a garage but a shop.
> 
> Seriously, think about everybody that might read this thread and how the actual code means so much more than your personal interpretation. You obviously feel strongly about it so why don't you be helpful and follow through.? As a "staff" member you owe us the documentation for your claims.


I have followed through many times and every time you simply say don't call it a garage but here you go.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/attachments/9fd208d7-470d-4019-843a-049bff9018b4-png.231634/


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## bholler (Jan 24, 2019)

And for the record that is an older version the newer versions have dropped the residential qualifier from garage.  It now says a solid fuel burner shall not be installed in any garage.


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## Highbeam (Jan 24, 2019)

bholler said:


> And for the record that is an older version the newer versions have dropped the residential qualifier from garage.  It now says a solid fuel burner shall not be installed in any garage.



That's a start but obviously not the current code since it has strike throughs, marked as 2002, and you say it's not even right about the garage thing? Come on. Get the real thing. This is about safety.

Plus it doesn't say you can't work on cars, or park cars, it just says where gasoline or any other flammable vapors may be present. VAPORS.

I don't think you've ever actually provided this but you've interpreted the heck out of it. I tried to help you but can't find it online for free. I only have the 2015 IFC on the shelf.


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## bholler (Jan 24, 2019)

Highbeam said:


> That's a start but obviously not the current code since it has strike throughs, marked as 2002, and you say it's not even right about the garage thing? Come on. Get the real thing. This is about safety.
> 
> Plus it doesn't say you can't work on cars, or park cars, it just says where gasoline or any other flammable vapors may be present. VAPORS.
> 
> I don't think you've ever actually provided this but you've interpreted the heck out of it.


I have the current books that I paid for.  And it clearly says I can't duplicate it so no I am not taking a pic of it for you.  The code is exactly the same other than it no longer says residential garage.

And no it doesn't say you can't work on cars but how are you going to work on a car in that space without gasoline being present?


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## Highbeam (Jan 24, 2019)

bholler said:


> I have the current books that I paid for.  And it clearly says I can't duplicate it so no I am not taking a pic of it for you.  The code is exactly the same other than it no longer says residential garage.
> 
> And no it doesn't say you can't work on cars but how are you going to work on a car in that space without gasoline being present?



Easy, don't open up the fuel system. It says "gasoline or other flammable fuel vapors". Cars have had vapor recovery systems on them now for decades.

The whole concept of "garage" is undefined. Means different things to different people.

It's too bad you can't actually provide the alleged fire code for people to read and understand. They can then decide how they want to interpret it. You can even make it a sticky with your "staff" powers. 

Didn't you let your guild membership lapse?


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## bholler (Jan 24, 2019)

That is the code.  If you are claiming it isn't provide a link to that chapter of the current book to prove it.


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## bholler (Jan 24, 2019)

Highbeam said:


> Easy, don't open up the fuel system. It says "gasoline or other flammable fuel vapors". Cars have had vapor recovery systems on them now for decades.
> 
> The whole concept of "garage" is undefined. Means different things to different people.
> 
> ...


Enough just because you don't like the code doesn't mean it isn't valid.  

And no I didn't let my guild membership lapse but even if I did that doesn't change the code.


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## WinterinWI (Jan 24, 2019)

I'm curious, does the code define "garage" or do they leave that interpretation up to local inspectors?


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## SpaceBus (Jan 24, 2019)

It seems the best solution is an outdoor wood boiler and in floor heating or hot water radiators. Maybe an outdoor wood furnace ducted into the shop.


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## bholler (Jan 24, 2019)

WinterinWI said:


> I'm curious, does the code define "garage" or do they leave that interpretation up to local inspectors?


The term garage is covered by common knowledge definitions which refer to a major dictionary for their definitions.  I don't remember which one it was though and it was a pita to find it last time I looked.  But it is defined.


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## Highbeam (Jan 24, 2019)

WinterinWI said:


> I'm curious, does the code define "garage" or do they leave that interpretation up to local inspectors?



Good question.


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## electrathon (Jan 24, 2019)

WinterinWI said:


> I'm curious, does the code define "garage" or do they leave that interpretation up to local inspectors?


Our building inspector (I work for a small town) told me a couple years back that he would allow a woodstove in a shop.  Said he saw/approved them fairly often.


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## bholler (Jan 24, 2019)

electrathon said:


> Our building inspector (I work for a small town) told me a couple years back that he would allow a woodstove in a shop.  Said he saw/approved them fairly often.


That doesn't mean it meets code unless he gives you a written waiver for the code violations.  It could present a problem if there was an insurance claim.  

To be clear I don't have an issue with people doing this.  Infact I have a wood stove in one of my garages.  I just want to make sure people understand it is infact against code and that can present problems.  I know that if I filed a claim for my garage related to that wood stove it would likely be denied.  I am ok with that risk and the garage is several hundred yards from any other stucture so it would not threaten anything else.


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## Highbeam (Jan 24, 2019)

bholler said:


> That doesn't mean it meets code unless he gives you a written waiver for the code violations.  It could present a problem if there was an insurance claim.
> 
> To be clear I don't have an issue with people doing this.  Infact I have a wood stove in one of my garages.  I just want to make sure people understand it is infact against code and that can present problems.  I know that if I filed a claim for my garage related to that wood stove it would likely be denied.  I am ok with that risk and the garage is several hundred yards from any other stucture so it would not threaten anything else.



Would you sell your home with the stove still located in your garage? Thinking about liability to the future buyers.


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## bholler (Jan 24, 2019)

Highbeam said:


> Would you sell your home with the stove still located in your garage? Thinking about liability to the future buyers.


No I would not.


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## SpaceBus (Jan 24, 2019)

I was thinking an outdoor wood boiler or furnace would get around this code issue, but it seems most areas expect you to pull a permit for such a thing.

@Highbeam did you need to pull permits for your shop? I know you live in Canada, but I'm still curious. My phone thinks I'm in Canada half the time anyway


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## Highbeam (Jan 24, 2019)

SpaceBus said:


> I was thinking an outdoor wood boiler or furnace would get around this code issue, but it seems most areas expect you to pull a permit for such a thing.
> 
> @Highbeam did you need to pull permits for your shop? I know you live in Canada, but I'm still curious. My phone thinks I'm in Canada half the time anyway



I’m in Washington state near Tacoma. I pulled a permit and passed an inspection. No problem at all, just needed to elevate it 18” like a furnace or water heater. My insurance provider also approved.


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