# This is odd. No hot water in upstairs shower



## wahoowad (Jan 7, 2014)

I rarely use my upstairs bath but decided to do so today because of our single digit temps and desire to keep water flowing through those pipes. To my surprise I could only get lukewarm water out the tub fixture - yet the vanity sink faucet produced nice hot water. I ran 2 tubs full of water in case the hot water was frozen, but the pipe was very warm and I felt a little bit coming out.

A couple years ago I did have a pipe burst feeding this tub - not sure if it was the hot or cold water feed. I recall watching the plumber and he was very competent and I think his repair involved a slip-over type repair that did not restrict flow.

I've had an occaisional guest or family member use this shower with no complaints about lack of hot water.

The hot water supply pipe feels very warm, yet the amount of warm water coming out seems far cooler than the pipe suggests it should be. I took the handle apart suspecting a blockage but everything looked clean, no scale. I ran a pipe cleaner back the hot side and there is no blockage and it comes back clean so everything looks fine. The picture shows the rubber boot/spring removed but it was in place and everythiong looks fine. I put it all back together and still get lukewarm water coming out. I know some hot water is flowing out because the cold water is much colder without the warm water on.

So what the heck could be going on?????


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## Hogwildz (Jan 7, 2014)

Could be a partial clog elsewhere in the pipe. Did you remove those other 2 seals, or are they missing? Have your tried alternately shutting the cold and hot supply line valves to the shower off one at a time and comparing the pressure coming out while cold, then hot?


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## wahoowad (Jan 7, 2014)

There is one seal/spring for the hot and cold passages. The lower passage that feeds the water to the spigot didn't/doesn't have a seal.

Should I take the handle apart again, then turn on the water supply and see how strongly water flows out of each passage? I didn't do it because I am home alone and didn't want full stream water coming out and making a mess while I run back upstairs to check


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## festerw (Jan 7, 2014)

I'm guessing there's a  problem with the anti scald portion of the valve and you're just not getting all that much hot water through.


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## wahoowad (Jan 7, 2014)

Is that the tee fitting where the hot and cold pipes come together behind my photo? Is there some kind of moving valve in it?


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## festerw (Jan 7, 2014)

It will be built into the cartridge that you've pulled out, pretty much the only way to fix out would be to replace the cartridge.


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## Hogwildz (Jan 7, 2014)

You shouldn't need to take the handle apart again. Just kill one valve at a time and see if there is a different in pressure between the hot & cold.
Fester might also be on to something also. If it ends up being the cartridge, it should not be too bad to replace. I had to order my cartridge online, as no one had it local.


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## wahoowad (Jan 7, 2014)

there is no cartridge really, just a ball device that rides on those spring-loaded seats. My house was built in '87 so not sure if these anti scald devices were standard back then? I don't know where it is unless it is built into that tee fitting that feeds water to the ball


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## wahoowad (Jan 7, 2014)

Hogwildz said:


> You shouldn't need to take the handle apart again. Just kill one valve at a time and see if there is a different in pressure between the hot & cold.
> Fester might also be on to something also. If it ends up being the cartridge, it should not be too bad to replace. I had to order my cartridge online, as no one had it local.



I can kill the water to my sinks but my tub/showers have all the plumbing hidden in the walls. I don't have a separate shut off valve for them.


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## Hogwildz (Jan 7, 2014)

Hmm, that sucks.
What is the lower post sticking out with the foam gasket around it? Could there be a cartridge in there?
Do you know what brand & model control & handle assembly is?


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## wahoowad (Jan 7, 2014)

that is the diverter to redirect the tub water to the shower head.

it is a Delta brand...no idea the model. The style is on the left in the picture above


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## ironpony (Jan 7, 2014)

festerw said:


> I'm guessing there's a  problem with the anti scald portion of the valve and you're just not getting all that much hot water through.


 

this is generally the answer, even if it not an anti scald there  is a balancing valve in there. they do go bad or get gunk on them and stop working. sometimes to verify this you can flip the valve and get the opposite results, only hot water. give it a try. fix equals cartridge replacement which they gouge you for, because the only other way is to replace the faucet.


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## Dave A. (Jan 7, 2014)

If you do end up replacing the valve, they do make small shut offs that fit inside the cover for the tub shower valve.  And that seems to be standard practice nowadays to install shutoffs for the tub/shower.  Absent the anti-scald protection, the age, and the lack of ceramic cartridges with those old deltas, you should consider replacement of the valve rather than repairing the old delta, imo, anyway.


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## wahoowad (Jan 11, 2014)

The cold snap has passed and I still don't have hot water out this tub faucet - so it wasn't a frozen/partially-frozen pipe. This is another pic of the plumbing behind the faucet handle. I guess the anti-scald valve


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## Enzo's Dad (Jan 11, 2014)

Its the cartridge, i have had this happen in two of the houses i have owned.


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## heat seeker (Jan 11, 2014)

Enzo's Dad said:


> Its the cartride, i have had this happen in two of the houses i have owned.


I have had the cartridge stick in a seldom-used shower, too. I tried to free the shuttle, but no luck. It seems like it swelled up for some reason. (Mine was a Symmons.)


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## wahoowad (Jan 11, 2014)

I'm confused by this talk of a cartridge. I don't think I have one. Nothing in the above pictures comes off twists off or slides inside anything.


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## fbelec (Jan 11, 2014)

you may not have a cartridge. those springs are probably junk. got to the plumbing supply house and get a rebuilding kit for your valve. if you were to shut off the cold and try to get water to come out of the spout it would only be a trickle. or the same if you were to shut off the hot. that is what the balancing valve does. happens all the time with shower valves.


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## plumberman57 (Jan 13, 2014)

I am a plumber by trade.The valve you have is not a pressure balancing valve. You should get a rebuild kit that includes a new ball, springs and washers. when installing the ball, make sure that the small peg on the inside of the valve body lines up with the groove in the ball. If this does not fix the problem then you have a restriction somewhere in the hot water supply line.


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## begreen (Jan 13, 2014)

With a crack like that I bet you are the butt of a lot of jokes.


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## Corey (Jan 13, 2014)

On the last faucet I worked on, the 'anti scald' was a simple plastic disk which fit over the stem and had a little tab which would only allow the faucet to be turned so far to the 'hot' side.  Had to put the faucet together / tear it apart several times to get the disk indexed just right where I could get water hot enough for a shower but not scalding hot.  Might look at the way the thing is assembled and see if there is something similar on this faucet which keeps it from going all the way to the 'hot' side. (could be a very simple / cheap piece of plastic)  Or something which might be bent, cracked, broken, and not letting you get all the way to 'hot' in the same manner.

If you think it's an obstruction, I guess you could put a bit of a temporary extension on that stub shown in the pic and have someone turn on the water at the source...see if you get a good flow of water out both sides.  Warning - might be messy!


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