# Total newbie, completely fubar system.



## ColdInMichigan (Jan 7, 2015)

Found this site in my attempts to figure out my new to me boiler. It is an Eko-Vimar circa 2005, gasification unit and is 40k btu I believe. This is outside and is used to heat the house that I just bought before winter. The system was crudely installed and in no way works properly. The hot water goes from the top of the boiler into the house and directly into the heat exchanger in the forced air furnace. Then it returns to the boiler via a pump. There are some plastic 55 gallon drums in the basement with pex tubing coiled inside them to be used as a heat storage battery but the water has to be manually diverted there with valves and an auxilary pump. When the temps here were around 40° outside, the system worked well with those barrels were hot to the touch and I had 65°c boiler temps. Now that it is sub zero outside, the system cant keep up and the only way I have any heat at all is if I close off the battery valves and run straight thru the furnace. Even then my boiler temps are rarely above 45°c. I know there are supposed to be thermal valves and other devices in place but I don't know what to do and I have very little money to make this system work better so any help is greatly appreciated!!
Here is a crudely drawn picture of my setup.
Please don't flame me, I didn't install this system!!


----------



## Clarkbug (Jan 7, 2015)

The first thing you need is return water protection.  You need to keep the water going into the boiler above a certain temperature or you get creosote buildup and acid that will eat your boiler.  Bad things.  

You will probably want a loading valve that has a pump and thermal protection built in, and install it next to your boiler.  

There are other ways to do it so it might be cheaper, but they involve some tinkering.  What is your comfort level with this sort of stuff?


----------



## ColdInMichigan (Jan 7, 2015)

I am in now way a plumber, but am very mechanically inclined. Been an auto mechanic for 15 years. This is all just new to me.


----------



## ColdInMichigan (Jan 7, 2015)

Is a loading valve/pump something I can get at Home Depot or am I going to have to order it online? I live outside of Grand Rapids MI and cannot find anyone that has parts for these systems.


----------



## Eric Johnson (Jan 7, 2015)

I'd try to bypass the hot water storage for the time being--at least until you get the boiler set up so that you can get reliably high temps. I think the rather crude storage system is just an unnecessary complication at this point.

Are you burning very dry wood, i.e., when was it cut and how was it dried and stored?

The EKO 40 is a good boiler and you should be able to make it work well with a minimum of modification, including the return water protection.

If you have Menards in your area, they have a really good, fully-stocked plumbing supply section that should have everything you'll need--once we figure that out.

If you're comfortable and handy with tools, you should have no trouble doing the work yourself. It ain't rocket science--at least not the way I do it.


----------



## ColdInMichigan (Jan 7, 2015)

The wood is the other problem. I only have access to wood that's been stored for 6 months. Just stored under a tarp outside. I've also been told by the guys at H2Oasis that my boiler isn't big enough for the space I'm trying to heat which is about 2200 square feet. The problem with running my system without the water storage is that when the furnace fan kicks on, my boiler temp goes down 20°c in 10 minutes. I can't get enough heat out of the little water in the system.


----------



## Eric Johnson (Jan 7, 2015)

There are fancier, more expensive ways to do this boiler protection thing, but this has worked well for me for the past 8 heating seasons, and you can get everything you need at Home Depot or Lowe's or Menards.

Ignore everything but the areas identified. All this does is constantly mix water from the supply (teed off from the main supply in this case--the actual supply goes out through another pipe not visible in this photo) into the return, with the Taco 007 circulator running constantly. The aquastat is set at 160 degrees and won't allow water to circulate into the house system unless it is 160 degrees or warmer. That allows the boiler to maintain a minimum temp. You can use pex or black iron pipe instead of the copper shown here. I just had that big piece of copper and thought this would be a good use for it.

Depending on how well your house is insulated, I think you could heat it with an EKO 40. The wood is an issue, however. These things don't work well with anything but very dry wood. Cutting it in the spring to start burning in the fall is probably not going to cut it. Two years dry is best.


----------



## ColdInMichigan (Jan 7, 2015)

I dont understand secondary supply


----------



## ColdInMichigan (Jan 7, 2015)

Maybe send a pic with flow arrows?


----------



## Eric Johnson (Jan 7, 2015)

The primary supply goes into the house heating system. The secondary supply simply tees off at the supply outlet so that hot water can be diverted to the return, as shown in the photo. You can do the same thing with a mixing valve, but this is probably cheaper and arguably easier to set up. This is all about keeping your return temps going into the boiler high enough to avoid thermal shock and the resulting damage to the boiler. It really has nothing to do with the rest of the boiler's operation, other than the aquastat keeps cold water from flowing into the system.


----------



## Eric Johnson (Jan 7, 2015)

This might help. Note that the flow check in the pump keeps everything flowing in the right direction, i.e., into the return.


----------



## ColdInMichigan (Jan 7, 2015)

Thank you! I will get the stuff and get to work. Hopefully i can get everything for less than $100.


----------



## Eric Johnson (Jan 7, 2015)

You won't damage your boiler over the short term by not doing this. If I were you, I'd get it working so that it heats your house before doing this. As I said, I think bypassing the "storage" component in your system might be very helpful. It sounds to me like a real inefficient heat sink that you really don't need to operate this boiler efficiently, and is probably sucking a lot of heat that would be better used directly. I have a bigger boiler (EKO 60) and I heat a 2,800 square foot, 1865-vintage farm house in a cold climate with no hot water storage. Heats it well, too. Last night I got up at midnight and loaded it up (cold night) and it was still at 180 degrees at 8:00 a.m.


----------



## goosegunner (Jan 7, 2015)

ColdInMichigan said:


> The wood is the other problem. I only have access to wood that's been stored for 6 months. Just stored under a tarp outside. I've also been told by the guys at H2Oasis that my boiler isn't big enough for the space I'm trying to heat which is about 2200 square feet. The problem with running my system without the water storage is that when the furnace fan kicks on, my boiler temp goes down 20°c in 10 minutes. I can't get enough heat out of the little water in the system.



Who is H2Oasis?  

The Eko 40  should be more than enough more than enough to heat 2200 square ft. I used a Econoburn 200 for 1 year without storage and it never had any problem heating my 2850 square feet in south central WI.

Dry wood is most likely your biggest problem with lack of heat recovery.  Get a day or two worth of dry wood, and I mean dried for 2 or more years and see how it works then. The necessary bypass loop would also help maintain return temp of the boiler by blending boiler water with return. 

The plumbing is a whole different issue. Get the EKO performing properly without the cobbled storage and then get it set up right for next year.

Look up Heaterman from this site and see if he is anywhere near you. If so you have one of most respected members on this site near by and you are a very lucky man.

gg


----------



## ColdInMichigan (Jan 7, 2015)

See mine doesnt work like that. I could get 8 hours out of a full load but the wood jambs and if i dont go out every 2 hours to poke it it will stop heating. Might be good to meantion that the control unit on my boiler does nothing but display the temp.


----------



## Eric Johnson (Jan 7, 2015)

ColdInMichigan said:


> See mine doesnt work like that. I could get 8 hours out of a full load but the wood jambs and if i dont go out every 2 hours to poke it it will stop heating. Might be good to meantion that the control unit on my boiler does nothing but display the temp.



That's because you're not burning dry wood. I bet you get blue smoke out of your chimney, too.


----------



## ColdInMichigan (Jan 7, 2015)

Mostly steam when its running hot enough. My control panel does nothing to control the boiler either. All it does is display the temp. None of the knobs do anything except when the low fuel light is on i can turn it off by turning the know left then right. So basically, if i could get the temp up, i have no way of keeping it from boiling over.


----------



## mr.fixit (Jan 7, 2015)

What controller  do you have?
You should be able to control the main boiler pump with the controller.
What powers the main pump now?


----------



## Clarkbug (Jan 7, 2015)

The boiler control issue sounds like you might want to get that sorted out also....  But you may find that they do work once you can get your temps up.

Have you cleaned your tubes at all?  

And having to poke the wood every few hours is due to wet wood.  Been there, done that.  Some pallet wood might help you out getting things going.

What shape is your boiler nozzle in?


----------



## ColdInMichigan (Jan 7, 2015)

I think its just wired on.


----------



## ColdInMichigan (Jan 7, 2015)

Rk2001e is the controler i have.


----------



## ColdInMichigan (Jan 7, 2015)

Nozzle is rectangular still. I have cleaned the tubes, 3 out of 6 were completely clogged. When it was warmer out, i managed to max out the temp on the boiler, thats how I know the controls dont work. Display only goes to 99° celcius and it was there. The pump I have is wired hot and has a manual speed control on it. High medium and low.


----------



## mr.fixit (Jan 7, 2015)

Trying to maintain  boiler temp. with the pump running steady and no return temp. is like running a car in cold weather  with no thermostat  in it, very hard to get up to operating temperature. 

If you could get the controller the turn the main pump on and off, and had some means to control the fan in the furnace plenum, you might get by until  you can get things sorted out.
Do you have the manuAL for the controller? 
If not you can find one on New Horizons website.


----------



## ColdInMichigan (Jan 7, 2015)

I got one from a website and it doesnt go into detail how to wire up that controler or really gow to use it and it was in poorly translated polish to english.


----------



## ColdInMichigan (Jan 7, 2015)

Sounds like im just totally boned here. Need a new pump, a return temp device, and all my wood is worthless. Awesome. Is there anyone from the Grand Rapids MI area that can come out and have a look? I will provide beer!!


----------



## stee6043 (Jan 7, 2015)

Dear Lost in Lowell....ha, sounded like this should be some kind of intro to a Dear Abby column or something.

As luck would have it I happen to be in Grand Rapids and I happen to run an EKO40 of similar vintage to yours.  And it also happens that I enjoy beer.  It's entirely possible that I could be convinced to swing over to Lowell for some boiler fun.

But first....your boiler is surely big enough to heat your house.  I heat quite a bit more than 2200 with mine (it is 40KW, not 40k btu).  Actual output is just north of 100,000btu/hr.  Your experience with H2Oasis is consistent with others I've talked to.  Step one - stop calling them. And forget about going there to buy parts.  They want your OWB business and that's about it.

When you say your boiler is outside, it is in a shed or garage or something, right?

Here is some helpful info you may want to peruse.
http://www.newhorizoncorp.com/PDF/ekomanual.pdf
http://www.newhorizoncorp.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/RK-2001UA-ENG12.pdf

Those two documents will go a long way toward helping you understand your system.  Let me know your thoughts.  I may be able to get out your way this weekend if you can survive that long.  As stated above stop screwing around with those plastic barrels.  That's a complete waste of your heat output.


----------



## ColdInMichigan (Jan 7, 2015)

Yes, it is in a non insulated, no doored section of my pole barn. Its not just chillin in my yard lol!


----------



## ColdInMichigan (Jan 7, 2015)

I will read through those tonight and I would be thrilled to have someone who knows anything about these systems come over and give me some pointers. Just send me a pm if you can come out and what kind of beer you drink.


----------



## mr.fixit (Jan 7, 2015)

Well if it is out in an uninsulated building,unless the system has antifreeze in it you have to keep it burning to keep it from freezing.
Thats probably why they had the pump running all the time.
All you can do at this point is run it like an outdoor woodboiler.


----------



## ColdInMichigan (Jan 7, 2015)

Thats what ive been trying to use it for since it is outside.


----------



## maple1 (Jan 7, 2015)

You should be able to get it to get you through this winter, by just plumbing in a Danfoss valve which would use your existing pump. So the only thing you would have to buy is a Danfoss and maybe a couple ball valves & fittings. And shutting off that hairbrained 'storage' setup - that is useless as far as I can see. Unless you can send just some flow through there and just use it as a big radiator (are those barrels in a place where you could use the heat they would give off?) - but for storage, ya it's fubar. Then, it would work about the same as an OWB would. But with the wonky controls, you will have to watch it very closely - any boiler system that relies on manual controlling is kind of asking for trouble.

But the success of that still comes back to your wood supply, you still might have issues with it being too wet. If you re-split it small & keep it next to your boiler, you might get it somewhat dried after a couple weeks. But that's a challenge if it's in an unheated uninsulated space. Mixing pallet wood in will help too, if you can find some.

Good news is it's a decent boiler - so things should get better next year with drier wood, and sorted out controls.


----------



## ColdInMichigan (Jan 7, 2015)

I hope so. Im going to buy alot of wood this year, dry wood and have it ready for the winter, I just need to get thru the next few months on the crap I have.


----------



## maple1 (Jan 7, 2015)

Doesn't help you much right at this moment - but for next year if you could get that place the boiler is in insulated, and also get all your winters wood in there with it before next winter starts, that will also help you hugely.

Then you can think about getting a proper storage setup in place.

Good luck with the present.

EDIT: You might also have issues with your underground piping which may be causing huge heat loss. Do you know what's there for piping?


----------



## ColdInMichigan (Jan 7, 2015)

No idea whats there for piping. Plan on getting a backhoe this spring and digging it up.


----------



## Clarkbug (Jan 7, 2015)

Maple read my mind asking about the buried piping....   Can you see at all what the piping is as it leaves the boiler to get an idea of size?

And sorry to make it sound like you are boned, but everyone here is just trying to help eliminate potential issues so that you dont spend time/$$ on something that doesnt actually help move you in the right direction.  If Stee can make it, that would be huge.  

Having a thermal protection valve, or using the extra circulator/aquastat approach as was discussed will help you out a lot keeping the boiler hot.  Heck, you might be able to even scavenge the pump from the "Storage" system to use near the boiler and save yourself the $ there.


----------



## maple1 (Jan 7, 2015)

Ok - accurately measuring the pipe temps where water leaves the boiler, and it enters the house, and seeing what the difference is should tell that story.


----------



## ColdInMichigan (Jan 7, 2015)

Thats a great idea. I will bring my laser thermometer home and let you know. Looks like 1" pex pipe to me, probably half the problem. And no worries guys, I knew I was screwed before I posted, just trying to get the most out of what I have.


----------



## stee6043 (Jan 7, 2015)

We'll get you there.  That boiler is a great boiler.  It's double the efficiency of the Central Boilers you see outside in peoples yards.  This means you'll burn half the wood once we get her running right.

Shoot me a PM with your schedule tomorrow and Sunday.  I might be able to swing out there tomorrow afternoon if you're up for it.  Just in time for sub -20 degree wind chills.  If you have a laser thermometer this would be a big help in diagnosing.


----------



## ColdInMichigan (Jan 7, 2015)

Thanks guys.


----------



## ColdInMichigan (Jan 7, 2015)

Tried to send a PM, unsure if I did it right!


----------



## stee6043 (Jan 7, 2015)

Got it, good to go.  Let's see what we can accomplish with a few beers, some duct tape and a chainsaw.


----------



## ColdInMichigan (Jan 7, 2015)

Ive got lots of chainsaws!!


----------



## Clarkbug (Jan 7, 2015)

Dont forget bailing wire and WD-40!


----------



## ColdInMichigan (Jan 7, 2015)

Gonna need the gallon jug...


----------



## maple1 (Jan 7, 2015)

Can you get a Danfoss valve before then?

Keep us posted, this is cool.


----------



## ColdInMichigan (Jan 7, 2015)

Have to local heating and cooling guy trying to get me a valve in the morning.


----------



## NateJD (Jan 7, 2015)

I don't have a dog in this fight. I don't have a boiler, or any wood burning appliance at this time outside a fireplace, but I wanted to chime in. I'm into old tractors and music and chainsaws. I've been on many forums for each. Nowhere else have I seen offers to come over to someone's house and help with problems. Kinda restores my faith in humanity from time to time. This place is special and I hope the mods and old timers realize it.   Hope I don't sidetrack any topic. Thanks.


----------



## ColdInMichigan (Jan 7, 2015)

I'm very thankful that someone has offered to help me as well, my wife and freezing kids are thankful too!


----------



## 1kzwoman (Jan 7, 2015)

NateJD said:


> I don't have a dog in this fight. I don't have a boiler, or any wood burning appliance at this time outside a fireplace, but I wanted to chime in. I'm into old tractors and music and chainsaws. I've been on many forums for each. Nowhere else have I seen offers to come over to someone's house and help with problems. Kinda restores my faith in humanity from time to time. This place is special and I hope the mods and old timers realize it.   Hope I don't sidetrack any topic. Thanks.


++1


----------



## goosegunner (Jan 7, 2015)

ColdInMichigan said:


> See mine doesnt work like that. I could get 8 hours out of a full load but the wood jambs and if i dont go out every 2 hours to poke it it will stop heating. Might be good to meantion that the control unit on my boiler does nothing but display the temp.




Indication that wood is too wet, bridging.

gg


----------



## ColdInMichigan (Jan 7, 2015)

Understood and agreed. Dry enough wood is not available.


----------



## Byrond (Jan 7, 2015)

I donot have a boiler but I recommend going to Home Depot and picking up 30 or 40 2x4's. Take and cut them to firewood length and add 4'or 5 lengths every time you load the boiler. You would be amazed at the difference it will make in your firebox temps even with marginal wood


----------



## ColdInMichigan (Jan 7, 2015)

Arent 2x4s pine? Pine is a very poor fuel.


----------



## Byrond (Jan 7, 2015)

ColdInMichigan said:


> Arent 2x4s pine? Pine is a very poor fuel.


Try it and you will see just how "poor" kiln dried pine is for fuel.


----------



## arbutus (Jan 7, 2015)

I used to live in the area and am marginally familiar with H2Oasis.
As was already said, they would probably love to sell an outdoor boiler.

I'll second getting your stuff from Menards.  Hope you get it figured out.


----------



## ColdInMichigan (Jan 7, 2015)

I bet the would


----------



## stee6043 (Jan 7, 2015)

I look forward to seeing what we can accomplish tomorrow. It's just pure luck that I have time to make this happen on a week day!

This board is a great place as has already been stated. I've received more help than I would ever be able to give. As long as ColdInMichigan doesn't turn out to be as crazy as his avatar this should be a good chance to pay it forward.

2x4's do make great starters for what it's worth. If you have some laying around it might help.  I regularly use dimensional lumber scrap as kindling when I have it.


----------



## ColdInMichigan (Jan 7, 2015)

Im gping to start grabbing pallets too. Keep a chainsaw in the trunk.


----------



## Clarkbug (Jan 7, 2015)

ColdInMichigan said:


> Arent 2x4s pine? Pine is a very poor fuel.



Time to go read some in the Wood Shed here on the site.

Pine is all some folks have to burn, and they stay warm enough.

Yes, compared to the BTU content of hardwoods pine is lower (typically), so you will burn more of it.  But it burns hot and fast, and throws good heat.  If its seasoned properly, it burns great, and makes excellent fuel.  

But when you have access to nice hardwoods, its usually not worth the effort to cut it up.  Then again, I got a lot of it for free last year, and its great kindling, and builds a nice coal bed to get gasification going.


----------



## ColdInMichigan (Jan 7, 2015)

I will look into the Wood Shed.
Someone once told me not to use pine because it creates alot of creosote....which I have anyway due to the crappy wood I do have!


----------



## cityboy172 (Jan 7, 2015)

ColdInMichigan said:


> Im gping to start grabbing pallets too. Keep a chainsaw in the trunk.



I would grab ECO bricks or similar  instead of pellets. Haven't tried pellets, but just see a bunch going down the nozzle.


----------



## ColdInMichigan (Jan 7, 2015)

I said pallets not pellets. You know, skids...


----------



## cityboy172 (Jan 7, 2015)

ColdInMichigan said:


> I said pallets not pellets. You know, skids...




My bad. Getting late.   Pallet wood should burn great.   The eco bricks have been a life saver for me, If you go the paid route.


----------



## ColdInMichigan (Jan 7, 2015)

Im going to have to buy something for next season. I have an awful time with bridging due to my crap wood. Im going to look into the bricks and there is a place one town over that sells coal so I may run that next winter as well.


----------



## cityboy172 (Jan 7, 2015)

ColdInMichigan said:


> Im going to have to buy something for next season. I have an awful time with bridging due to my crap wood. Im going to look into the bricks and there is a place one town over that sells coal so I may run that next winter as well.




Just getting  ahead on wood and splitting real small will help. Even the wet stuff I'm burning right now does ok after a coal bed is built. I'm shooting for playing card sized splits. You can tell it takes a lot of BTU's to get it dry enough. Smaller the split the faster the dry time. 

I'd also be willing to make a trip up there, but it's going to have to be about spring at the rate things are going (assuming Stee6043 doesn't end up on a milk carton) .  Don't know as much as a lot of the guys on here, but a Pipefitter / HVAC guy by trade. Might be able to help.  Unfortunately, I'm  buried right now, personal and work.. My wife would probably shoot me when I got home if I went to go work on someone else's wood boiler given how far behind I am on mine.


----------



## rkusek (Jan 8, 2015)

stee will be able to help.  Having some real dry wood whether it be 2x4 scraps, small pieces, stuff that was dead standing, etc. will allow you to burn the wetter stuff.  The controller wired correctly will help too with keeping the boiler hot and gasification going.  This will help overcome the wet wood and unnecessary fire tending too.  The Eko 40 is plenty big to heat your home.


----------



## ColdInMichigan (Jan 8, 2015)

Anyone know how to keep the coals inside the top? Mine always fall down into the bottom. I tried a steel grate inside once but it wasnt heavy enough and melted.


----------



## maple1 (Jan 8, 2015)

Might be a sign of needing a new nozzle too. Stee will know when he sees it.


----------



## ColdInMichigan (Jan 8, 2015)

Nozzle replacement requires cutting out the concrete and replacing it right?


----------



## maple1 (Jan 8, 2015)

Might not need cutting, per se, to get out. But maybe some trimming of a new one - or maybe that was Biomass. No direct knowledge here, but should be lots of threads about it.


----------



## Medman (Jan 8, 2015)

The nozzle can be removed by busting it out. There are a few threads on here about it.  I am on my 7th heating season with my EKO 25 and I need to replace my nozle now, so I am ordering the replacement from New Horizon today.  
For now you can create an overlay for the nozzle from firebrick to narrow the opening - again, threads on here detail how to do this.  I have used this for the past two seasons with lots of success - I just had to replace the bricks seasonally as the heat breaks them down.

Your controller sounds like it is broken as well.  You can order a new one from New Horizon, or wait for the end of the heating season and take a go at fixing it yourself.  I can definitely help with that when the time comes; electronics repair is my expertise and I have repaired my own controller a couple of times (bad capacitor, faulty switch on board).


----------



## Eric Johnson (Jan 8, 2015)

Medman said:


> The nozzle can be removed by busting it out. There are a few threads on here about it.  I am on my 7th heating season with my EKO 25 and I need to replace my nozle now, so I am ordering the replacement from New Horizon today.
> For now you can create an overlay for the nozzle from firebrick to narrow the opening - again, threads on here detail how to do this.  I have used this for the past two seasons with lots of success - I just had to replace the bricks seasonally as the heat breaks them down.
> 
> Your controller sounds like it is broken as well.  You can order a new one from New Horizon, or wait for the end of the heating season and take a go at fixing it yourself.  I can definitely help with that when the time comes; electronics repair is my expertise and I have repaired my own controller a couple of times (bad capacitor, faulty switch on board).



You can jack the nozzle out of there with a hydraulic jack and a little tapping with a hammer from above.

I repaired both my controller by replacing the capacitor with a higher capacity one, and it works great. Actually, I have two--both needed repair; both work fine now.


----------



## stee6043 (Jan 8, 2015)

I'm still shivering.  I left ColdInMichigan's place an hour ago.  When I left my truck said it was a solid 1 degree F outside.  Fortunately his boiler is covered but it's still basically outside.  Not far from a large opening on the front end of his pole barn.  Dang cold out there today, fellas!

I think we made some great progress but too early to call this a complete win.  His system has some pretty wild "enhancements" from the prior owner.  I wish I could have stopped shaking long enough to take some photos for the forum.

So...the progress we made today was primarily due to pulling the front panel off and adjusting air settings while also cleaning out the secondary air tubes.  His primary air sliders were too far open and the secondary was both too far closed as well as the tubes filled with ash.  We set primary at about 1/2" and ran the secondary's out about 6 turns.  With wet wood I wanted to push a little more air in there than normal.  We had a decent flame when I left and it was holding decent temp, showing signs of improvement.

We also slowed his circ pump a bit by throttling down one of his valves.  Initially we were getting less than 10 degrees delta T in his furnace HX coil.  I was trying to get it closer to 20.  I think we ended up with 15ish.

I think his buried pipe is less than ideal but far from his biggest challenge right now.  It looks like 5 degrees temp loss per side on maybe 100 foot run.  Very livable for this winter.

His controller setup is pure awesome.  It displays temp but does not control the fan nor the pump.  Both the fan and pump have been modified to plug into the wall.  Functional, but kinda scary.  He will be checking the outputs on the controller to see if it works.  The controller wants to run the pump based on the lights on the front but it's not currently being given the chance.  If it shows no signs of life on the fan and pump outputs a new controller will be the first thing that needs to be purchased (along with a mixing valve and lower refractory).

Had a good time out there today.   Was glad I didn't end up mugged and buried in the woods.  ColdInMichigan has a solid boiler that just needs some TLC and some minor plumbing corrections.  That and some good dry wood next year will lead to full on winning.


----------



## maple1 (Jan 8, 2015)

Awesome!


----------



## stee6043 (Jan 8, 2015)

Of course the dang thing nearly overheats while I was typing the above!  Good news but still concerning.  The boiler needs to survive long enough to get a functioning controller onboard.


----------



## ColdInMichigan (Jan 8, 2015)

Went to town to grab dinner after he left and got back to 95° and rising....oops. Got her back into the mid 80s now so getting there. Going to test the controler tomorrow and see if i can keep this thing from blowing up. Thanks again stee6043 for all your help. And i can't bury you in the woods till my boiler is at 100% functionality!


----------



## stee6043 (Jan 8, 2015)

Hah.  At this point I think it'll only be the controller holding you back.  I hope those outputs show 120v when you check it so you can immediately wire in the fan and pump.  You gotta get those things off the wall plugs.  And if the current controller isn't going to do the trick your money will be best spent on a new one.  I say the only "must haves" for this year are the controller (if your current rig wont work), the refractories and the mixing valve.  Still far, far cheaper than 100gallons of propane!


----------



## ColdInMichigan (Jan 8, 2015)

Totally agree. Hopefully the controler will work. The "holy balls it's hot" light works!


----------



## Eric Johnson (Jan 8, 2015)

You're a good man, Stee; a credit to the board.


----------



## TCaldwell (Jan 8, 2015)

Stee,
 Its only the 8th day into to the new year and look at all the good karma that should be coming your way!


----------



## 1kzwoman (Jan 8, 2015)

ColdInMichigan said:


> I will look into the Wood Shed.
> Someone once told me not to use pine because it creates alot of creosote....which I have anyway due to the crappy wood I do have!



DRY wood Pine or what ever Wood is needed , All I burn is DRY Pine.

Welcome to forums


----------



## 1kzwoman (Jan 8, 2015)

maple1 said:


> Awesome!




+1


----------



## ColdInMichigan (Jan 8, 2015)

Nice to know!!


----------



## Clarkbug (Jan 8, 2015)

Stee, you are a good man, helping a fellow burner out like that.  Good on ya.  You come through NY some point, beer is on me.

ColdinMichigan, I hope you get things square with your setup, and that you and your family are feeling better about your setup today!  once you get through the winter, stick around and ask questions about how to make your setup even better....  

Oh yeah, and start cutting/splitting/stacking now for the next few years!


----------



## Armaton (Jan 8, 2015)

Do you happen to know the moisture content of your wood? Hoping stee had a meter and checked it. I live in Hastings, and my system isn't quite on line yet. I could part with some ash that has been CSS for 2 years, you could mix it in with your stuff. Couldn't get it to you before middle of next week though. Let me know!


----------



## boB48 (Jan 8, 2015)

stee6043 said:


> I'm still shivering.  I left ColdInMichigan's place an hour ago.  When I left my truck said it was a solid 1 degree F outside.  Fortunately his boiler is covered but it's still basically outside.  Not far from a large opening on the front end of his pole barn.  Dang cold out there today, fellas!
> 
> I think we made some great progress but too early to call this a complete win.  His system has some pretty wild "enhancements" from the prior owner.  I wish I could have stopped shaking long enough to take some photos for the forum.
> 
> ...


Wish a great guy like u lived closer to Otsego Plainwell north of Kalamazoo..... Built my own boiler, and now that it is really cold out temps at the coil r only 115 and between 160 and 180 at the boiler.but on a positive I will not give up .


----------



## skfire (Jan 8, 2015)

Stee for president...got my vote.
Great to see...
I almost signed him up for beer delivery...


----------



## ColdInMichigan (Jan 8, 2015)

Well, its midnight and ive been fighting to keep the temp up for the last 3 hours. Its running 65°c with the furnace fan on for now, but it keeps dropping off. Without that controler I'm just SOL. My main concern is that if the fire goes out, and the controler has the pump off due to the low temps, that my lines will freeze.


----------



## rkusek (Jan 9, 2015)

Maybe someone can verify this that has an extra controller but I'm sure the controller has "freeze protection" that runs the pump output when boiler temp is close to freezing.  Bad thing is it could still freeze in your case if not running constantly since the boiler area is not in heated building.  You really need a shot of warmer weather where you can add a circulator loop similar to what Eric Johnson described.  The way I'm visualizing it you would actually need 2 more circs or 1 circ and the danfoss (or similar) boiler protection valve.  2 circs would be cheaper up front and probably better with your freeze potential.  Picture the underground line to the house on a loop with your existing circ plugged into wall.  A second loop with one new circ plugged into wall also connecting boiler input and output.  Both of these loops would need a set of 2 tees connected by shortest "close" nipple.  The 3rd loop would have the a new circ connected to the controller pump output and utilize the "closely spaced tees" and probably need a spring check valve to prevent ghost flows when the 3rd circ is not running.  You are having trouble keeping boiler hot because it can't get up to temp with the house loop constantly sucking the heat away.  My controller does not start pump til boiler hits 165 and shuts off when it drops to 160 or below.


----------



## rkusek (Jan 9, 2015)

Another temp solution for you would to add an aquastat in the home where the pipe goes into the furnace HX.  So the blower would only run when water in loop was above 160 degrees.   No cold weather plumbing changes doing this way.  Do you run the furnace with propane or something else when not burning wood?


----------



## ColdInMichigan (Jan 9, 2015)

It is a propane furnace but my tank is almost empty and cant afford the $550 minimum to put gas in it till I get my taxes so the boiler is 100% of my heat.


----------



## stee6043 (Jan 9, 2015)

ColdInMichigan said:


> Well, its midnight and ive been fighting to keep the temp up for the last 3 hours. Its running 65°c with the furnace fan on for now, but it keeps dropping off. Without that controler I'm just SOL. My main concern is that if the fire goes out, and the controler has the pump off due to the low temps, that my lines will freeze.


 
Well that's not great to hear.

As stated above the controller will run the pump if it senses the rig is getting too close to freezing.  But once you have the controller hooked up (or replaced) you shouldn't have to worry about the fire going out.  It's going to do the job for you.  Your loads of wood will last longer since 1.) with the mixing valve the boiler will be able to maintain it's own temp and 2.) it will shut the fan off on it's own once the setpoint is reached, thus reducing the fire during those times.

Part of me thinks you should just go ahead and buy a new controller now. Yours is old enough that I don't know for sure how it's going to work even if the outputs work.  If you do buy one let's chat about how you cover the thing up.  Having it exposes like it is now probably isn't the best idea.


----------



## ColdInMichigan (Jan 9, 2015)

I agree. Maybe I need to build a door for the barn sooner rather than later. The boiler stayed above 45 all night but thats it. I will look into controlers, maybe someone here has one.


----------



## stee6043 (Jan 9, 2015)

Also, you have zero risk of freezing right now, ColdInMi.  With the pump always running the water through the house and back out it will not get the freezing even with zero fire in the boiler.

Maybe someone has a spare controller they'd make you a deal on.  I see they are $200 new.  More than I was expecting.


----------



## stee6043 (Jan 9, 2015)

ColdInMichigan said:


> I agree. Maybe I need to build a door for the barn sooner rather than later. The boiler stayed above 45 all night but thats it. I will look into controlers, maybe someone here has one.


 
Did you throttle the valve on your return back down after the cool down last night?  And open the air back up a bit?


----------



## ColdInMichigan (Jan 9, 2015)

Oh well. I had a pipe burst int he garage last night too so theres that! I got maybe 5 hours of sleep.


----------



## boB48 (Jan 9, 2015)

OK, my homemade boiler heat up fine ,160 turns the draft fan on and shuts off at 180. My circulation pump runs continous. The water going into the coil is reading about 105 to 115.furnace fan continuous because it warm just not hot it is 91 @ the  floor vent. But on a better note last week it was doing better at keeping up.... Any idea's


----------



## stee6043 (Jan 9, 2015)

Armaton said:


> Do you happen to know the moisture content of your wood? Hoping stee had a meter and checked it. I live in Hastings, and my system isn't quite on line yet. I could part with some ash that has been CSS for 2 years, you could mix it in with your stuff. Couldn't get it to you before middle of next week though. Let me know!


 
His wood is pretty green.  I tossed a load in for him and it's far from ideal.  This is why I ran his primaries and secondaries further open to help with wet wood.  He also needs to work to get and keep a good coal bed.  I figured not letting the wood level get too low will help with this.


----------



## stee6043 (Jan 9, 2015)

boB48 said:


> OK, my homemade boiler heat up fine ,160 turns the draft fan on and shuts off at 180. My circulation pump runs continous. The water going into the coil is reading about 105 to 115.furnace fan continuous because it warm just not hot it is 91 @ the  floor vent. But on a better note last week it was doing better at keeping up.... Any idea's


 
I'd suggest starting a different thread, Bob.  Troubleshooting homemade boilers is a whole lot different than OEM units.


----------



## boB48 (Jan 9, 2015)

stee6043 said:


> I'd suggest starting a different thread, Bob.  Troubleshooting homemade boilers is a whole lot different than OEM units.




OK stee, ,,,see if I can figure out how to make a new tread.

I'm pretty handsome but not very sharp on these forms


----------



## 1kzwoman (Jan 9, 2015)

ColdInMichigan said:


> It is a propane furnace but my tank is almost empty and cant afford the $550 minimum to put gas in it till I get my taxes so the boiler is 100% of my heat.


The is a program here call LIEAP to help with heating for families you may have it on your state too.


----------



## Clarkbug (Jan 9, 2015)

boB48 said:


> I'm pretty handsome but not very sharp on these forms



I know its off-topic, but this made me LOL.

Sent you a PM Bob.


----------



## ColdInMichigan (Jan 10, 2015)

Rude awakening this morning when my pex line coming into my house blew off and flooded the basement! Man these boilers are fun! Dont think it was an overtemp issue since i had the furnace fan running all night and when it woke me up the temp in the house was only 67° (thermostat set at 74°). Now I wait for the hardware store to open and try to get this fixed and the system refilled before the pipes freeze or my family does.


----------



## ColdInMichigan (Jan 10, 2015)




----------



## TCaldwell (Jan 10, 2015)

stee6043 said:


> His wood is pretty green.  I tossed a load in for him and it's far from ideal.  This is why I ran his primaries and secondaries further open to help with wet wood.  He also needs to work to get and keep a good coal bed.  I figured not letting the wood level get too low will help with this.


Stee, with wet wood he might be better off  increasing fan speed to a little above what would be normal for dry wood, increase primary as you did but decrease secondary to promote a higher secondary combustion temp. In his case too much secondary will decrease flame temp.


----------



## Mike Fromme (Jan 10, 2015)

TCaldwell said:


> Stee, with wet wood he might be better off  increasing fan speed to a little above what would be normal for dry wood, increase primary as you did but decrease secondary to promote a higher secondary combustion temp. In his case too much secondary will decrease flame temp.


If he's got the fan plugged into an outlet it would be running 100% already.


----------



## Mike Fromme (Jan 10, 2015)

ColdInMichigan said:


> View attachment 150167


I'm not exactly sure what I'm looking at... Npt to pex compression fitting? Kind of looks melted?? You might get away with a barb fitting and hose clamp for an emergency repair.


----------



## ColdInMichigan (Jan 10, 2015)

Looks like I have pex al pex. Compression fitting on the outside, pipe with orings inside.


----------



## stee6043 (Jan 10, 2015)

Worst case.  DANG IT.  I have had a million thoughts on your rig this week, ColdInMI.  None of them particularly good.  I would bet good money you had an overheat last night.

When I left your place on Thursday I couldn't stop thinking about the plumbing arrangement and that blown expansion tank.  I'm betting that expansion tank was blown on day one, has always been like that.  Your system is (was) plumbed directly into your house water supply.  Your house is running a normal 50psi +/-.  Your boiler SHOULD run in the 20psi range.  A proper pressure relief valve would have blown at 30psi last night.  I am assuming the guy that installed your rig installed a much, much higher pressure relief valve because of the fact that he had that fill valve always open.  I bet it's 80-100psi and I'm betting this is why it did not blow last night.  You can look at the PRV and see if it has the pressure rating on it.  But that won't do you much good at this point.

The good news?  Thank god we turned off that valve filling the boiler system.  Had your pex popped with your house water still connected you would have had a lot more water down there this morning.  The other good news?  It doesn't look like the pex burst but rather the fitting broke.  Much, much easier to fix that fitting than replace pex.

I gotta tell ya...I think you're money is better spent on propane right now.  If you fix the pex but still can't control the fan there is no reason this won't happen again.  I'm at a loss on how the prior owner survived with this rig.  Unless he intentionally tuned it to run so cold, so shitty that he never really had to worry about it.  But running like that you saw that it will not heat when it's really cold outside.  Perhaps he always hit the propane when it got really cold?

I'm going to check my stock to see if I have a spare PEX-AL-PEX fitting in my stash.  If so, we might be able to make quick repair on your line.  But I still think you're fighting an uphill battle for this winter.


----------



## ColdInMichigan (Jan 10, 2015)

I am thats for sure.


----------



## stee6043 (Jan 10, 2015)

TCaldwell said:


> Stee, with wet wood he might be better off  increasing fan speed to a little above what would be normal for dry wood, increase primary as you did but decrease secondary to promote a higher secondary combustion temp. In his case too much secondary will decrease flame temp.



When I got there he was unable to keep the fire going at all when he'd close the doors and pull the bypass.  The primaries were open about 3/4" and the secondaries were basically closed.  So I set his primaries just under 1/2" and opened up his secondaries to roughly 6 turns.  We were getting a pretty decent flame at that point and this should be a decent setup for wet wood.  I'm running 9mm and 4 turns on my rig with dry wood.

If he popped pex last night due to pressure (which I'm guessing he did) I think the problem now is too much heat and a pressure relief valve not designed for this type of application.  When I left I assumed worst case would be some water coming out of his PRV should he overtemp.  Well...I think we've proven that theory wrong.  I wish I had checked the rating on his PRV before I left.  It never even ocured to me.


----------



## Mike Fromme (Jan 10, 2015)

Hopefully it had a low water cut off to shut off power to the fans when the line blew. Otherwise if it had a fire going with no water you could have bigger problems.

I wouldn't run it until the controller is hooked back up to the fan at least.


----------



## Clarkbug (Jan 10, 2015)

Gotta agree wtih Mike here.  I know that you dont have the $ C.I.M, but you should figure out how to get the propane fill, run that system, and get that controller fixed.  Otherwise you will be spending more money to fix issues like this until you can get the system plumbed and operating properly.


----------



## TCaldwell (Jan 10, 2015)

Stee, sounds like your settings are good for what's going on, as you guys are eluding to a total reinstall when the weather gets better or the enclosure is finished will provide positive results.


----------



## stee6043 (Jan 10, 2015)

Mike Fromme said:


> Hopefully it had a low water cut off to shut off power to the fans when the line blew. Otherwise if it had a fire going with no water you could have bigger problems.
> 
> I wouldn't run it until the controller is hooked back up to the fan at least.



Negatory.  There is no control on his boiler.  For the record ColdInMichigan seems like a very nice dude AND I 100% believe he had no part in installing his system.  He's way too smart to have done this.  That said, his installation is a full-on example of how NOT to install a wood fired appliance.  For the purposes of someone benefiting from this info in the future I'll outline below some of the things this particular DIY'er did horribly wrong:

Major items:
1.)  The boiler plumbing is tied directly to his house plumbing with no backflow preventer / autofill device.  It is hard plumbed with only a gate valve between the two sides.
2.)  The boiler has no mixing valve/loop.  Supply goes straight to the house, returns straight back to boiler.  ColdInMi will be fixing this soon with an extra pump he has (similar to Eric Johnson's recommendation).
3.)  The primary circ pump is plugged into the wall (on 100% of the time).
4.)  The fan is plugged into the wall (on 100% of the time).
5.)  The pex is good pex (1" pex-al-pex) but I'm guessing it's buried to an average depth of 6-12" as it approaches the house.  That said, it's only loosing 5 degrees per side, +/-.
6.)  It sounds like the pex was buried with some cored styrafoam blocks around it.  For water intrusion purposes this might as well be direct-burial, uninsulated.
7.)  There is a small expansion tank plumbed in the house but it is leaking and clearly blown (see my prior post).
8.)  We now know the pressure relief valve is either non-functioning or rated far too high for boiler use (or both).  It's also got no vent leg (if it blows, it's strategically directed toward where the operator would stand).
9.)  The boiler is located basically outside.  It is covered but it get's plenty of wind and probably a bit of precip too.
10.)  I think the flue might be 4"...possibly 6", I did not measure it.  It comes out and exits the barn at a 30 degree angle with about 8' of total pipe.

Minor items:
1.)  The boiler is plumbed with a mix of black, galvanized, copper and pex pipe.
2.)  Gate valves were used throughout instead of full port ball valves.
3.)  The upper door seals are completely shot.  A river of creosote runs down the left side.
4.)  There is only one lower refractory remaining and it's in rough shape.
5.)  I didn't get to see the upper refractory from the top but the secondary holes are present and in good shape.  Upper refractories might need some attention though.

The good news:
1.)  The EKO boiler is kick ass and rugged.  It can come back from this abusive history.
2.)  ColdInMichigan has a coil in his furnace plenum that I wish I had.  It's a very nice coil, plenty big enough for a big heat load and/or low to moderate supply temps.
3.)  The pex is proper O2 barrier pex in spite of its depth.

I've said it before but perhaps it's worth saying again - I am not an HVAC professional.  Never have been, never will be.  Just a DIY'er who learned everything he knows about boilers from this very site (and my own installation).  There are pro's on this site that know more than I will ever know.  But they also charge for house calls!  ha.

I really hope we can get ColdInMichigan in a survivable situation for this winter.  His kids appear to love the movie Frozen just like mine do but I don't think they want to build Olaf in the middle of the living room this week.


----------



## maple1 (Jan 10, 2015)

Wow. Whoever installed that should be, well, I don't know. Just wow.

Just that first thing on your major item list alone is worthy of the hugest of wows. I would bet large dollars the relief is a DHW one and Stee has the blowout situation figured exactly right. Hope your boiler is OK now.

Man I hope you can get through this winter.


----------



## huffdawg (Jan 10, 2015)

I guess it was kind of good that the system didn't have an auto-fill device installed on it, would have been a swimming pool in his basement.


----------



## pulse (Jan 10, 2015)

As painful as it may be it sounds like this system should be shut down and winterized for this season. There are way too many things wrong here to attempt to limp through. Something bad could happen that will cost major money or personal injury, or both. This spring I would disassemble everything and put it back together correctly. Good luck!


----------



## Mike Fromme (Jan 10, 2015)

huffdawg said:


> I guess it was kind of good that the system didn't have an auto-fill device installed on it, would have been a swimming pool in his basement.


I'd rather have a flooded basement then a boiler burning out of control with no water in it.


----------



## maple1 (Jan 10, 2015)

Mike Fromme said:


> I'd rather have a flooded basement then a boiler burning out of control with no water in it.


 
Not sure I would, if the boiler is outside in an open space. Hard one to call though.

As bad as things are, I don't think it would cost whole lot $ wise to get things improved greatly. And the $ spent would be needed going forward anyway - like a controller, and pressure regulator/backflow setup. Just a matter of getting things sorted out & the time it would take. Tough situation.


----------



## 1kzwoman (Jan 10, 2015)

ColdInMichigan said:


> Rude awakening this morning when my pex line coming into my house blew off and flooded the basement! Man these boilers are fun! Dont think it was an overtemp issue since i had the furnace fan running all night and when it woke me up the temp in the house was only 67° (thermostat set at 74°). Now I wait for the hardware store to open and try to get this fixed and the system refilled before the pipes freeze or my family does.



Oh man I feel for you. It sounds like PO Bubba really messed your system up.
You have found good people here to support you. STEE being there speaks volumes of his character!! The rest of us wish we were closer and new about boilers. Keep at it, just think how much you will appreciate it when it's fixed!


----------



## 1kzwoman (Jan 10, 2015)

I have a challenge for other forum members. Give up cup of coffee house coffee and send $5 to Cold in Michigan
. It will help a family that needs a solution fast to a heating problem.
Cold please check your inbox for a note from me about where to send my $5.00
All I ask is you pay the help forward to another person sometime.

My $$ will be in the mail Monday as I got a reply.


----------



## ixlr8 (Jan 11, 2015)

1kzwoman said:


> I have a challenge for other forum members. Give up cup of coffee house coffee and send $5 to Cold in Michigan
> . It will help a family that needs a solution fast to a heating problem.
> Cold please check your inbox for a note from me about where to send my $5.00
> All I ask is you pay the help forward to another person sometime.
> ...


I'm willing to kick in a few bucks, I sent CiM a PM.


----------



## GENECOP (Jan 11, 2015)

If he needs help, I'll kick in, please someone post up a mailing address....


----------



## 1kzwoman (Jan 11, 2015)

GENECOP said:


> If he needs help, I'll kick in, please someone post up a mailing address....



I suggest a quick conversation as address on open forums is not a good idea in today's world IMHO


----------



## 1kzwoman (Jan 11, 2015)

Thank you for helping someone we know needs it.


----------



## salecker (Jan 11, 2015)

ColdInMichigan said:


> I hope so. Im going to buy alot of wood this year, dry wood and have it ready for the winter, I just need to get thru the next few months on the crap I have.


Hi Cold
 You could get some dry chunks to add to your wood to help.See if you have a roof truss manufacturing plant close by.They always have a pile of kiln dried scraps.When i picked up the trusses for our house in Edmonton they had a bin by the road with a sign Free Wood.Keep a wheelbarrow full next to the boiler and toss a bunch of them in with your not so seasoned wood and it should help.For the last few years i always had a barrel of scraps from building our house.If we went to long between loading the boiler,a shovel full and some logs on top of them and it would be gasafing within seconds.
 Thomas


----------



## ColdInMichigan (Jan 11, 2015)

Thank you to everyone who is able to contribute in anyway to helping me with my boiler. My family definately appreciates the warmth!


----------



## GENECOP (Jan 11, 2015)

Also check out the area for a Pallet Manufacturer....lots of cutoffs for free there...


----------



## ColdInMichigan (Jan 11, 2015)

There is a pallet recycling plant on the NE side of Grand Rapids right along the expressway. If I can figure out what it is called I can go there.


----------



## 1kzwoman (Jan 11, 2015)

Here y's go


----------



## stee6043 (Jan 12, 2015)

Hey, ColdInMIchigan, I have two thoughts for you this fine day.  Post a picture of that Watt's valve you have on your house plumbing to see if anyone on this board knows what it might be.  If that is a pressure reducing one way valve you may be in good shape on your house plumbing. It doesn't look like any backflow preventer I've ever seen but that doesn't mean much.

You may also want to post a description of the wiring on that main plug.  I'm beginning to wonder if that is 220V we hooked up to the controllers which is why they popped.  It seems possible you have two hots (110V each) and a neutral, no ground.  It's possible the prior owner was using that relay block to isolate one leg of 110V for the controller and fan.


----------



## ColdInMichigan (Jan 12, 2015)

Found a place in GR that has cheap pallet scraps. Said the sell them by the "bunk" I guess its a pile like 4X4X3 for $5. Not sure if that's on par with other places yet but I am calling around. Stee and I are still diagnosing the electrical problems with my unit and I have an electrician coming out tonight to tell me why we fried 2 control units this weekend. I do have heat by running my pumps full time and just keeping a fire in the box, it just takes forever to heat up and I have to constantly monitor the water temperature with a temp gun. Better than freezing!


----------



## 1kzwoman (Jan 12, 2015)

Hey guys www.watts.com includes op manual in their product details


----------



## ixlr8 (Jan 14, 2015)

ColdInMichigan said:


> Stee and I are still diagnosing the electrical problems with my unit and I have an electrician coming out tonight to tell me why we fried 2 control units this weekend.


Hey CiM, any success in diagnosing/repairing the electrical problems??


----------



## ColdInMichigan (Jan 14, 2015)

Yes. The fan runs on 240v and the controler runs on 120v. There was a relay of sorts to down the voltage for the controller to work. So when I removed the relay which I had thought was only there for the fan, I over volted the controller and burned it up. Mystery solved.


----------



## huffdawg (Jan 14, 2015)

Step down transformer


----------



## ixlr8 (Jan 14, 2015)

Sorry you burned up the controllers, glad to hear you now know why and when you get a working controller hopefully your boiler will work better with less manual intervention.


----------



## ColdInMichigan (Jan 14, 2015)

I hope so


----------



## Clarkbug (Jan 14, 2015)

Stee, do you think you can fix your blown controllers?


----------



## 1kzwoman (Jan 14, 2015)

ColdInMichigan said:


> Yes. The fan runs on 240v and the controler runs on 120v. There was a relay of sorts to down the voltage for the controller to work. So when I removed the relay which I had thought was only there for the fan, I over volted the controller and burned it up. Mystery solved.



Ouch! I'm glad it was only controller not house that burned. A lot of people aren't "sparky" by nature.  I gladly pay an electrician and a painter. Hope you get things lined out soon


----------



## ColdInMichigan (Jan 14, 2015)

Would have been the shop that burned if anything, boiler is out there. Yea, hopefully I can get something working. Its kinda in limp mode right now since I cant control it.


----------



## stee6043 (Jan 14, 2015)

Clarkbug said:


> Stee, do you think you can fix your blown controllers?



A capacitor replacement worked for me, thankfully. ColdInMi was not so lucky.


----------



## ColdInMichigan (Jan 14, 2015)

I changed my capacitor too and it turns on but no display. Oh well, live and learn!!


----------



## 1kzwoman (Jan 19, 2015)

Are you up and running?


----------



## ColdInMichigan (Jan 19, 2015)

Sorta. Its in full manual mode. I have a combination pressure/temperature gauge to monitor everything and the fan is wired full on. Also have the system plumbed thru those stupid barrels (tho I have removed 2 of them) to keep it from overheating. A new controler is in the works as is a complete replumbing job this summer. At least I have heat now although not as good as it would otherwise be.


----------



## ColdInMichigan (Jan 21, 2015)

Alright! So thanks to generous and totally unexpected donations I will be able to get the controler I need to make my system run properly! Now what I need is an electrician to tell me how to wire it without frying it. I have a 240v fan on the boiler that the 120v ONLY controler has to run. Anyone know how this can be done?


----------



## ixlr8 (Jan 21, 2015)

Is the controller suppose to "control" that fan? Is that the correct fan for your boiler?


----------



## ColdInMichigan (Jan 21, 2015)

Its whats on it. Looks original. New Horizons website doesnt list a fan for it so im not sure where id get a replacement 120v version.


----------



## Eric Johnson (Jan 21, 2015)

Here's what the stock fan looks like:


----------



## ColdInMichigan (Jan 21, 2015)

Mine must be an addon then. Grainger sells fans but i couldnt find one with the rotating air control on it.


----------



## maple1 (Jan 21, 2015)

I think I would try to get a stock fan - maybe call new Horizons? They might even have an after market replacement or reference for one?

Might avoid a lot of issues trying to get a 240v fan working on a 120 controller - and more fireworks.

Gotta wonder along with everything else how it ended up with a 240v fan on it. More head shaking....


----------



## woodsmaster (Jan 21, 2015)

.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





$125 at new horizons. Look under boiler parts / blowers.


----------



## 1kzwoman (Jan 21, 2015)

ColdInMichigan said:


> Alright! So thanks to generous and totally unexpected donations I will be able to get the controler I need to make my system run properly! Now what I need is an electrician to tell me how to wire it without frying it. I have a 240v fan on the boiler that the 120v ONLY controler has to run. Anyone know how this can be done?



I also want to thank all persons who helped with a bit of human kindness this family who had a need. I am awed at the people who populate this forum.
From Stee who showed up to work things out, to those who offered a bit of cash, to those who offer suggestions and humor you are truly what this country needs. Honest caring humans.


----------



## haveissues (Jan 21, 2015)

If you had to make your fan work you could get a relay with a 120v coil and use that to switch your 240 fan on and off.


----------



## stee6043 (Jan 22, 2015)

ColdInMichigan said:


> Its whats on it. Looks original. New Horizons website doesnt list a fan for it so im not sure where id get a replacement 120v version.


 
Hey, Cold.  Great news on the donation!  Pretty awesome forum we have here.

Are you sure you have a 240V fan?  I thought your fan was wired directly to the wall, separate from the 240V plug that was running (through a relay) the controller?  I guess I don't remember exactly.  It would sure be nice to not have to buy a new fan since yours seems to work fine.  But you surely do not want to fry a new controller.

One quick tip - start getting ahead on your wood splitting for next year.  Way ahead if you can.  Once this boiler is setup properly it's going to be a bit more particular about what kind of wood it wants.


----------



## ColdInMichigan (Jan 22, 2015)

Understood Stee, I figured out that if I run 120v to the controler, then the fan output circuit to a 120v relay, I can hook the other side of that relay to a 240v circuit and the fan. That way I have an isolated 120v for the controller and an isolated 240v for the fan.


----------



## maple1 (Jan 22, 2015)

That approach would work also, and should give you a bit of safety. As long as you're sure your fan is actually a 240 one. I guess just putting the relay on whatever is there now powering it should be pretty safe, whether it's 120 or 240? Long as the load side of the relay can do both/either - I think mine can.


----------



## Armaton (Feb 13, 2015)

Been 3 weeks, how's everything working? Get the new controller and relays installed?


----------



## ColdInMichigan (Feb 13, 2015)

No. Bought some dry wood to get us thru. Figured it was a better choice for the moment. I have a system in place that works pretty well without the controller and my house is always above 68°. Not ideal by any means but will get us thru the winter.


----------



## stee6043 (Feb 14, 2015)

-45 windchill tonight is what I just saw.  Keep her pushing, ColdInMi!


----------



## ColdInMichigan (Feb 14, 2015)

Running her full tilt all day today. Going to be a hastle keeping it hot without boiling over tho. I sprung a leak at another one of those compression fittings but next to the boiler this time. Slow but still leaking. At least if that blows thebwater isnt in the house lol!


----------



## boB48 (Feb 19, 2015)

Hey guys, check this place out
freeheat4u, .best prices I've found


----------

