# Is Kiln Dried Worth the Extra $$$ ?



## chrishearth (Sep 26, 2015)

I am very new to the scene, I just got my Vermont Castings Montpelier wood insert installed less than a week ago, and so far I've been burning bundles you get from your local grocery store to break it in.  I am now getting ready to pull the trigger on a full cord.  I live in MA, and I am trying to decide between paying $350 for a cord of seasoned firewood vs. $700 for a cord of kiln dried firewood (both prices include delivery), and I am having a hard time making up my mind.  I would love to be able to store the wood in my basement (I have plenty of room for it) so I don't have to trek out into the snow in the winter to grab more wood, but I am not sure I can justify double the cost for that luxury alone.  Besides being able to store the wood in your house without fear of bugs/termites, what are some of the other advantages of kiln dried firewood?  In your opinions is it worth double the cost?

Please help me, I am on the fence. Thanks,
-Chris


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## Fastdonzi (Sep 26, 2015)

if the seasoned is Truly Seasoned then it is a better deal... Buy a Moisture Meter and bust open a few of his splits and measure the moisture content on a fresh split face and see... if it averages less then 20% it is seasoned, more than 20% it is next years wood (which is okay to buy for next year)


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## jotul? (Sep 26, 2015)

To quote Austin Powers "Ouch baby, very ouch". I live in western pa. and an entire log truck load of mixed hardwood (7.5 cords once CSS) cost me $725. Go to your local farm supply store, or big box, and buy Eco bricks or the equivalent. One ton for $300. Then buy a cord of the best " seasoned" stuff you can find and mix them. It got me through my first year. That doubles the btu's for less money. Make sure the firewood seller knows that you'll test his stuff with a moisture meter before it comes off the truck though.


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## Wisneaky (Sep 26, 2015)

buy the eco bricks or find pallets. Even dry slab wood would be better. I wouldn't even burn wood if I had to pay that price.


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## chrishearth (Sep 26, 2015)

Won't using eco bricks void my Vermont Castings insert's warranty ?


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## Wisneaky (Sep 26, 2015)

chrishearth said:


> Won't using eco bricks void my Vermont Castings insert's warranty ?


Why would it? They are just wood.


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## DoubleB (Sep 26, 2015)

Wisneaky said:


> I wouldn't even burn wood if I had to pay that price.



No kidding.  I could only see buying it if you have money to spare and want the romance of the fire.  But if only considering the heat value, I use 5 cords/yr = $3500, and I could heat with LP for half that amount, and even less if you are on nat. gas.


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## brenndatomu (Sep 26, 2015)

DoubleB said:


> I could heat with LP for half that amount


Even when oil was $3 per gall, I could have got by on $2000-$2500 per year! $700 per cord...hex no brother! Who's buyin that stuff anyways, Donald Trump?!


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## graycatman (Sep 27, 2015)

I paid $300/cord for kiln dried and thought that was a bit steep.  $700/cord is just plain gouging IMO.  I generally agree with the above posts, however, if you can spare the coin you might want to consider getting one cord of the kiln dried just to avoid the typical frustration of being a new wood burner with a new stove and high expectations and crappy wood.  Treat yourself to the experience of seeing what it's all about--starting next year and assuming you get next year's wood now.


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## NoGoodAtScreenNames (Sep 27, 2015)

I was in the same position as you last year and still a little bit this year. I paid $400 a cord last year (north of Boston). I was lucky enough that most of it was fairly good, but I generally re-split every piece that went in the stove. Most were generally around 21% which I called close enough. There were definitely some stinkers in there too though. 

I have some leftover from last year but not enough to get me through. I bought 2 years worth in the summer from a different place to get ahead but I won't trust it enough to burn it without checking it. The past week I've been experimenting with Bio-Bricks and it's a totally different experience. I found a place that sells them cheaper than my cord wood. I'm going to pick up a pallet next week.  Looking forward to more time in front of the fire and less time out in the cold garage splitting wood. 

If you want to do kiln I think you can find something much better than $700, even in MA.


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## kennyp2339 (Sep 27, 2015)

There is a difference between eco/bio/compressed wood bricks and the man made firewood logs ie: duraflame. The man made stuff uses wax binders to hold the product together, the compressed wood bricks uses the pressure of manufacturing to hold it together.
* from experience I would lean towards the compressed wood bricks over kiln dry stuff, it will be a little cheaper, plus with the bricks you are gaurenteed a product of 6-8% moisture content and they are easier and less messy to use.


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## prezes13 (Sep 27, 2015)

Wow $700?  I pay $265 for a ton of Eco bricks and I think that's high.


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## xman23 (Sep 27, 2015)

I have never heard of kiln dried fire wood. It's a good idea, but I'm always skeptical. No regulations or standards like "S" dry lumber dry? How dry is it. 

We all know, virtually all so-called seasoned fire wood sold was split in the last few months.


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## Wisneaky (Sep 27, 2015)

xman23 said:


> I have never heard of kiln dried fire wood. It's a good idea, but I'm always skeptical. No regulations or standards like "S" dry lumber dry? How dry is it.
> 
> We all know, virtually all so-called seasoned fire wood sold was split in the last few months.


There is kiln dried firewood. It is really dry. Research it.


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## laynes69 (Sep 27, 2015)

Kiln dry, 700 a cord.....ouch! I would look around and try to find the best seasoned wood you can find, before paying 700 for kiln dried. Considering you can get double the wood for the price of the kiln dried stuff. Maybe split down the other stuff if not quite ready and mix with some bio bricks or something dry. Around here a cord of seasoned wood is $125. I know it's higher in other places, but at even 300 a cord I don't think it would be worth it, unless there's significant savings.


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## Fastdonzi (Sep 27, 2015)

Last year I bought some wood from a guy at work, He had just split it a few days before ( I Knew that)  I took 10 pieces and put them in the big oven at work, 350* for 1hr lost 13lbs of water.. I thought that was a lot.. I just wanted to see how heating it, dried it. I don't know how long or hot they kiln dry it..


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## dafattkidd (Sep 27, 2015)

I would stay away from th kiln dried stuff. I've seen kiln dried wood hiss and bubble out the ends. As stated above, kiln dried wood can vary tremendously. It can be cooked to a super dry beautiful state for bu Ning or just cooked enough to get the bugs out. 

I share the opinion that your money is better spent on cord wood and bio bricks. Store the bricks in your basement. Mix the bricks with the cordwood. This should be half the cost or less than the kiln dried stuff. Good luck. Congrats on the new stove.


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## Oldman47 (Sep 30, 2015)

I think if I was looking at $700 for a cord of wood I would be pricing 2x4 studs. That much money will buy a lot of studs that are dry enough to burn and pest free.


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## Wisneaky (Sep 30, 2015)

Oldman47 said:


> I think if I was looking at $700 for a cord of wood I would be pricing 2x4 studs. That much money will buy a lot of studs that are dry enough to burn and pest free.


it would be almost $1000 to make a cord of wood from studs at around $2.50 each.


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## NewHarmanOwner (Sep 30, 2015)

Wisneaky said:


> it would be almost $1000 to make a cord of wood from studs at around $2.50 each.


I think you missed the point.


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## gerry100 (Sep 30, 2015)

$700/cord wood, even if perfectly dry, is 2X as expensive as heating oil


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## Longstreet (Sep 30, 2015)

I'd be paying day labor to bust free pallets apart before I bought kiln dried at $700/cord.


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## drz1050 (Sep 30, 2015)

700/ cord is crazy talk.. bio bricks/ envi blocks can be found for around 300/ ton if you really need dry wood. 

If you're OK with burning nails/ if you don't have a cat, a Sawzall makes quick work of pallets.


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## Wisneaky (Sep 30, 2015)

NewHarmanOwner said:


> I think you missed the point.


doubt it.


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## jharkin (Oct 1, 2015)

Chris, whereabouts in MA are you?  


$350 for a cord of "seasoned" is not unusual in Mass if he is close to Boston.  About the best Ive ever seen is $250-275 for guys delivering wood by the cord in summer - and no its never truly seasoned.  Ive seen some cheaper prices advertised for split green and that's usually a good deal if you can find it as the "seasoned" isn't typically much drier.

Agree with the consensus not to buy kiln dried. Even if its good stuff at that price you are better off cranking the thermostat - even on oil. If you have natural gas even the $350 seasoned wood is not cost effective.   Mixing less than ideal wood with the envi-blocks is not a bad idea but you are not completely out of line to worry about the warranty... Every VC stove manual has a paragraph stating the stove is designed to burn natural split wood only - so if something happened I don't think its out of the realm of possibility they would try to blame the envi-blocks.  Just don't run a full load of them and watch the temps, you should be fine.


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## Bad LP (Oct 1, 2015)

Tell the guy at 700 to step away from the crack pipe. That's insane at every level of conversation..


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## jharkin (Oct 1, 2015)

If you consider the investment in capital equipment, energy cost to operate the kiln, and labor in a high cost state like MA its probably not crazy at all if the guy wants to make a living.

But relative to the energy cost of burning natgas, LP or even oil for heat its not cost effective for the consumer.


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## Oldman47 (Oct 6, 2015)

Production costs never govern the price a product can command. All most end users care about is the price vs what it is worth to them. If something is priced higher than I feel it is worth you will have a hard time selling it to me, no matter what it cost you to make it. It is one of the reasons so many businesses fold. Often they cannot make a product that is profitable to sell at what people are willing to pay.


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## jharkin (Oct 6, 2015)

Oldman47 said:


> Production costs never govern the price a product can command. All most end users care about is the price vs what it is worth to them. If something is priced higher than I feel it is worth you will have a hard time selling it to me, no matter what it cost you to make it. It is one of the reasons so many businesses fold. Often they cannot make a product that is profitable to sell at what people are willing to pay.




You partially contradicted yourself there - as the production cost does set a floor on the minimum price a good can be offered to market at. Above that cost there is a tradeoff in sales volume vs. margin.  Big corporations spend a lot of time researching the ideal price point that will return the optimum margin per unit vs. sales volume ratio.

If the product cant sell above production cost then as you say there is no market, except for cases where i given product is used as a loss leader to get buyers in front of more profitable  items.


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## Oldman47 (Oct 6, 2015)

There is no contradiction. If it costs me $100 to produce something and nobody is willing to pay more than $85, I end up out of the production business, period. Nobody in the real world cares one bit what it cost me to produce it except me. The cost of production argument is often used by startup businesses but is seldom supported in the marketplace.


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## fire_man (Oct 6, 2015)

I checked some google hits for kiln dried firewood in MA and could not believe one place sells it for $1000/cord. Guess $700 being expensive is relative?!?


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## bholler (Oct 6, 2015)

Oldman47 said:


> There is no contradiction. If it costs me $100 to produce something and nobody is willing to pay more than $85, I end up out of the production business, period.


I agree to a certain point but Production costs absolutely have to govern the price.  If they didn't then do one could stay in business.  Now i do agree that if your production costs are much higher than you competitor then yeah you are not going to be able to charge what you need to and you either have to reduce costs or get out of that buisness.


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## paul bunion (Oct 6, 2015)

xman23 said:


> I have never heard of kiln dried fire wood. It's a good idea, but I'm always skeptical. No regulations or standards like "S" dry lumber dry? How dry is it.
> 
> We all know, virtually all so-called seasoned fire wood sold was split in the last few months.



You will probably find that in most cases 'kiln dried' only meets the regulations to kill any bugs so it can be transported freely.   It is held at a certain temp for a certain length of time.   It will not mean that the operator runs a drying schedule to get the wood to a certain moisture content.


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## bholler (Oct 6, 2015)

paul bunion said:


> You will probably find that in most cases 'kiln dried' only meets the regulations to kill any bugs so it can be transported freely. It is held at a certain temp for a certain length of time. It will not mean that the operator runs a drying schedule to get the wood to a certain moisture content.


That is how it is done by us as well the wood is usually not dry.  But it also does not cost that much either


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## mwhitnee (Oct 6, 2015)

Here you go bud..

http://www.westendfirewood.com $425/cord


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## seabert (Dec 12, 2016)

I have the same unit. I have burned Envi (enviro bricks) for 2 years now. Much cheaper than Kiln Dried and much easier to stack and store indoors. I also mix the blocks with cordwood. My chimney sweep guy inspects everything and he said I was doing everything right. I have used up to 5 Envi 8's at once with no problem but you really need no more than 4. If mixing with cordwood use 2 Envi 8's. When mixing you will find the Envi's really help.


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## Jeffm1 (Dec 13, 2016)

DoubleB said:


> No kidding.  I could only see buying it if you have money to spare and want the romance of the fire.  But if only considering the heat value, I use 5 cords/yr = $3500, and I could heat with LP for half that amount, and even less if you are on nat. gas.


Yeah, I second that. I would just burn propane and still come out a head.


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## CentralVAWoodHeat (Dec 13, 2016)

Turn the furnace up this year, buy or cut 2 years ahead, and start waiting.  Never ever pay that much for wood.


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## kevreh (Dec 14, 2016)

chrishearth said:


> I am very new to the scene, I just got my Vermont Castings Montpelier wood insert installed less than a week ago, and so far I've been burning bundles you get from your local grocery store to break it in.  I am now getting ready to pull the trigger on a full cord.  I live in MA, and I am trying to decide between paying $350 for a cord of seasoned firewood vs. $700 for a cord of kiln dried firewood (both prices include delivery), and I am having a hard time making up my mind.  I would love to be able to store the wood in my basement (I have plenty of room for it) so I don't have to trek out into the snow in the winter to grab more wood, but I am not sure I can justify double the cost for that luxury alone.  Besides being able to store the wood in your house without fear of bugs/termites, what are some of the other advantages of kiln dried firewood?  In your opinions is it worth double the cost?
> 
> Please help me, I am on the fence. Thanks,
> -Chris



Did you check Craigslist, maybe an area further away than your direct area? Some guys are willing to deliver an hour or so away. BTW, make sure you differentiate between wood types. I pay a little more for hardwoods like locust or oak, which is worth it because they burn hotter and slower.


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## CheapBassTurd (Dec 14, 2016)

Is there a reason not to process your own wood?

Time?
Property with no extra trees?
Age?
Physical limitations?
No saw/ splitting axe/ splitter available?
No available wood at local dumps or roadside utility company cuts (scrounge)?
City, suburb, or country home location?
Just don't want to mess with it?
Is this part time, or going to be your primary heat source?


Myself and most of us are willing to offer up useful ideas, but what details are we working with?

Personally I get roadside precut and split and stack myself.
What is your situation?  Those 5 and 6 dollar bundles certainly are not the answer except those wanting 
some weekend ambience.


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## Destructor (Dec 15, 2016)

I’m in Mass, south of Boston. A neighbor pays around 300 a cord, it’s not fully seasoned and he buys it in the late summer, too late. My street is surrounded by woods. I walk in the woods and drag out logs and scrounge what I can fit in my trunk, a large trunk. If you see a home or addition being built nearby and you have a way to get scraps home it can be a great source of supplemental wood, end cuts, rafter cuts and stair stringer cuts are great for burning, you just won’t get long burns.


Scrounging takes time unless you happen upon one large single find. I found a nice stash of oak cut in 18 inch to 6 foot length from a utility easement running through the woods. Very little can be burned this year. It looks like it was trimmed a year or more ago. I have to get it cut and split by spring if I want any hope of burning it next winter.


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## lindnova (Dec 15, 2016)

There is a guy locally that has a natural gas fired kiln.  Sells retail wood in pre-measured stacks.  Back the car up and fill up.  Certified to kill bugs and can be moved without transporting disease.  Yes it is expensive and for me would be prohibitive to saving money, but he sells a lot of wood.

$700 /cord sounds way too high.


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## CTYank (Dec 15, 2016)

"Kiln-dried" has just about as much meaning as "seasoned" or "air-dried" without specification of MC. Certainly not oriented toward prep of fuelwood. I'd suggest you think farther ahead (like 3-4 yrs min.), hook up with a scrounging buddy, get a decent 40-50 cc chainsaw, and set to scrounging the area. Contact tree services to let them know they can dump logs at your place. Ask equipment dealers if you can take their busted skids. It works.

Of course you'll need to learn about care & feeding of chainsaws, and splitting wood. Not rocket science, just needs a moderate attention span.


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## billb3 (Dec 16, 2016)

$700 sounds expensive but I wouldn't be surprised if sales are brisk even at that price East of Metrowest.
I would be tempted sell my 3 and 4 year seasoned red and white oak for $350 or more and buy oil.  
$275 and up for "seasoned" and mixed hardwoods around me. Not many guys selling this year either. What they are selling looks fresh cut and split.
Big mountains in their ads.

Buying wood after a new stove install can be rough. Good luck finding something decent.


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## The Principal (Dec 18, 2016)

It's $400 per cord for kiln dried in Rhode Island. 


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## ekg0477 (Oct 10, 2018)

Was just quoted $420 delivered for "cord" of kiln dried. 60 individual bags of 6-7 logs on a skid


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## BIGChrisNH (Oct 10, 2018)

7 bills per cord is insane. It doesn't have to be kiln dried, I guess that kills the bugs, but wow that price is high. I can get a log load delivered for just about that price.


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## Bushels20 (Oct 10, 2018)

Buy green wood cut to the right length now in the quantity you need for next year. Buy it as cheap as you can. Fight through this year in whatever way you need to. It’s just what happens your first year. We’ve all fought through it. After buying your first year, start cutting splitting and stacking yourself if you can/so desire.

Most of us don’t decide to heat with wood with 6 cords of seasoned wood at the ready.


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## Dug8498 (Oct 11, 2018)

Bushels20 said:


> Buy green wood cut to the right length now in the quantity you need for next year. Buy it as cheap as you can. Fight through this year in whatever way you need to. It’s just what happens your first year. We’ve all fought through it. After buying your first year, start cutting splitting and stacking yourself if you can/so desire.
> 
> Most of us don’t decide to heat with wood with 6 cords of seasoned wood at the ready.



I second this. Last winter was our first winter heating with wood. We moved into our house in January. Bought some “seasoned wood” right when we moved in and turned out to be oak that was 35-40 mc. It sucked. Went and bought a bunch of wood this spring at a low price and immediately stacked to ensure I would never do that again. Now working on acquiring free wood to split and stack 


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## tsquini (Oct 11, 2018)

I was pondering the same question.  There was seasoned outside wood for $350 and kiln dried for $500. Both of these piles of wood were on display outside in a dumped pile in the elements. Rain,  snow, fog. 

I concluded that kiln dry wood water content will eventually equalize to the regular seasoned wood water content by being out in the elements. Because of this I don't think it is worth the extra to buy kiln dried wood.  If it was covered when stored I might think differently.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Oct 11, 2018)

tsquini said:


> I was pondering the same question.  There was seasoned outside wood for $350 and kiln dried for $500. Both of these piles of wood were on display outside in a dumped pile in the elements. Rain,  snow, fog.
> 
> I concluded that kiln dry wood water content will eventually equalize to the regular seasoned wood water content by being out in the elements. Because of this I don't think it is worth the extra to buy kiln dried wood.  If it was covered when stored I might think differently.



Your correct. The kild dried wood will regain mousture even if not exposed to rain. It will regain mousture from humidity also. So if the qood was say at 9% it will start to creap up to say 14% the additional cost of kiln dried is not worth the money as as soon as it gets outside the kiln its moisture will increase. Thats not to say that kiln drying your own wood is a waist of time or resources. A solir kiln would be able to take a harwood species from say the mid to upper 30% MC to the low teens easy in the corse of the summer. You could take any species from CSS in the spring to burning in the fall, 6 months and have it as low as 10%. I actually left some in the kiln to long and had large cherry splits down to 2% one year...


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## bholler (Oct 11, 2018)

I have to add allot of the kiln dried stuff isnt kiln dried it is only heat treated to kill bugs so it can be transported freely.  It can still be pretty wet.  You need to split a peice open and test it still.


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