# Troy Bilt 27 Ton Splitter - Bad Weld Alert



## bsticks

I attached an image of bad weld I found. If you own the Troy Bilt 27 Ton Log Splitter I would encourage you to look at the welds on the cylinder mounts to the log dislodger. 

I was splitting Saturday morning and watch a rainbow of hydraulic fluid shoot out a pinhole near the valve handle. Troy Bilt/MTD was not much help and I sent them the pictures of the bad weld. I ground out the mount weld and the cavity I found was a 1/16th diameter hole. Rewelded the mount and all is good. 

Troy Bilt doesn't warranty bad welds in their equipment.

Bsticks


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## smokinj

I done about 100 cords  with mine just went and took a look and so far so good...Normally that crap happens to me but not yet...knock on wood. How long did it take to fix it?


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## bsticks

2.5 hours to fix. Hardest part was keeping the packing cool to rebead a new weld once all the hyraulic was out of the cylinder. Reassembly was a 5 minutes. Even touched up the weld with some black paint!


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## smokinj

Thanks for the info, hope I dont need it..lol


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## bsticks

Hahaha, me too 

Mine only last 15 cords. I hope to reach your 100 milestone!


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## smokinj

bsticks said:
			
		

> Hahaha, me too
> 
> Mine only last 15 cords. I hope to reach your 100 milestone!



The only thing I have done so far is to change the hydro filter.


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## bsticks

i have changed the filter and the inlet filter. I have also gone through about 16 grade bolts on the cradle assemblies. I have to figure out how to take the stress off the cylinder. I was hoping maybe a fabricated support bracket from the tongue frame up to the cylinder.


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## smokinj

bsticks said:
			
		

> i have changed the filter and the inlet filter. I have also gone through about 16 grade bolts on the cradle assemblies. I have to figure out how to take the stress off the cylinder. I was hoping maybe a fabricated support bracket from the tongue frame up to the cylinder.



Not sure about that really no issues with mine, and I would say its safe to say 100 cords. 3 of use running it and no one babys it.


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## loon

i have the 21 ton MTD, guess i better check the welds also as i imagine they are done by the same guys  :-S


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## bsticks

Why yes sir they are. I also have removed the aluminum tongue assembly and put a 5 ft long, 1/4" steel tube assembly for trailering. I am all for lightening the load but somethings need to be more rigid. 

So far so good, the weld is holding quite nicely....

Have you noticed that the plastic fender brackets bend easily? They look next for replacement.


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## loon

i also extended the log holders as the wood would drop right on the engine and will be beefing up the plastic rimmed tires/fenders, just got to find the same size for when i use it in the vertical position.
i knew what i was buying and wasnt worried about the non highway use but like you said, some things just need to be beefed up ;-)

Terry


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## fidiro

This has to be a problem as mine blew open yesterday.  I'm still trying to wash out the hydraulic fluid out of my eyes as I took a bath in oil.   The clothes I was wearing went into the garbage truck today and they felt like they had 2 gallons of oil.  The ground is still a pool of oil.  What a mess.

I want to do some more research on this problem but my eyes burn too much if I stare at the computer more than 10 minutes.

I smell a recall and it better happen soon before bigger injuries come from the hot oil.  

I wrote troy bilt yesterday and still no response.  I'm going to wait it off for a response and go from there.  

A metal cylinder was not built to withstand 27 tons of pressure but all the rubber hoses and seals are, hmmmmmmmmmmmm.  We must have a 200 ton pump and 500 ton rubber hoses/seals with the steel only capable of 10 tons.  Troy Bilt better step up to a recall.  The weld shows only about 1/16" was welded to cylinder.


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## Danno77

wow, that's crazy. It doesn't even look like the weld broke, it looks like it just blew outside the weld. maybe the steel was weakened with the weld?


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## Skier76

It looks like the weld weakend the metal and that blew it out. IMHO...


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## bsticks

WOW! The ripped right out of the cylinder. Steel looks paper thin. That could have been a terrible, terrible accident.


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## ROBERT F

that there is the problem with trunion mount cylinders, nor to mention that that weld looks to have poor penetration.  found the weak link, and it was the thin metal of the cylinder.


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## Flatbedford

Yikes You guys should buy some Fiskars Super Splitters. Those hydro rigs look dangerous!!

In all seriousness, it seems they have quite a problem with those machines. I hope Troy Built helps you out and I hope your eyes clear out too. Maybe some medical attention is necessary. You don't want to mess with your vision.


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## ANeat

I agree, looks like bad cylinders from whoever they get them from.   I never did like the mounts welded directly to the cylinder body.


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## fidiro

Flatbedford said:
			
		

> Yikes You guys should buy some Fiskars Super Splitters. Those hydro rigs look dangerous!!
> 
> In all seriousness, it seems they have quite a problem with those machines. I hope Troy Built helps you out and I hope your eyes clear out too. Maybe some medical attention is necessary. You don't want to mess with your vision.



I really hope they do something for me and others as well.  I really should go get my eyes checked but when there is no medical insurance I hesitate everytime doctors names get mentioned. I have 2 young kids to feed and don't need big doctor bills right now so I'll wait a few more days.

The wall of the cylinder is about 1/4" thick so that is not the problem.  The problem is that the weld did not penetrate the full 1/4.  The pics don't lie  I can't photo shop that and still have the cylinder off and it is just as it shows in the pics.

Here's the rest of the splitter to show exactly what model this was.  It is being under powered by a 5.5 honda but it still managed to break metal and not hoses/seals.  Motor works great though otherwise but 1 more horse would have been a big difference for a PROPERLY built 27 ton cylinder.

The second pic shows the mess on the ground after I threw many shovelfulls of chips and wood sawdust mix I have on hand to soak some oil back up from the ground as I left quickly yesterday after the incident and  only went back today to try to clean some up.  The landlord is going to have my a$$ if he sees that.  Tomorrow I'm going to dig it up and throw it into the fire barrel.


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## lazeedan

Wow. You would think Troy Built would want to fix this problem before someone gets seriously hurt! Not to mention there reputation!


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## fidiro

bsticks said:
			
		

> I attached an image of bad weld I found. If you own the Troy Bilt 27 Ton Log Splitter I would encourage you to look at the welds on the cylinder mounts to the log dislodger.
> 
> I was splitting Saturday morning and watch a rainbow of hydraulic fluid shoot out a pinhole near the valve handle. Troy Bilt/MTD was not much help and I sent them the pictures of the bad weld. I ground out the mount weld and the cavity I found was a 1/16th diameter hole. Rewelded the mount and all is good.
> 
> Troy Bilt doesn't warranty bad welds in their equipment.
> 
> Bsticks



Hope all is well with your cylinder now.  Hope nothing happens like it did to mine or worse and then Troy Bilt says it was because the new weld that cause it.  This is a problem they have to conquer and recall.  Hot oil can do some damage and used oil causes cancer, so I'm going into a hot bath again to get some more of the hydraulic smell off my skin.  Filter is new but hydro oil was changed last summer, next summer would have been the next hydro oil change.  I think I'll use palmolive dish washing detergent as my bubbles today. LOL

All I heard was a pop and a spraying gush of oil.  Because everything happened so quickly, without thinking I reversed only to get more of an oil bath.  I then quickly shut down engine and just stood still and stared at my bad investment for at least 30 minutes, no joke it was depressing seeing the damage I couldn't believe what had happened, I was oil soaked and just stood there.  Finally broke out from that spell and took the cylinder off to assess the complete problem.  I'll be surprised if I have half of the hydro in the tank.  

I thought I would have this thing running until I retired with just a few hoses and regular maintanance such as oil/filter changes.  Never thought the major components would fail this way due to manufacturing defects.  I only split about 8 cords of wood a year.

BTW, I would never look for this thread if this problem never happened to me so there are many out there blind not knowing what could happen.  Even by looking at the prone area it cannot be detected unless it's leaking or worse it just pops.  I think that the 27 ton troy bilt log splitter is becoming a problem child and these problems need attention.  The sad part is that troy bilt website says they are built to last.  Last less than 6 years is the part they forgot.


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## 'bert

Could one of the mods do some sort of search for people that have the Troy Built splitters listed as part of their sig line and alert them to check this thread  :-S  Are there other splitters that use this same cylinder?


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## fidiro

’bert said:
			
		

> Could one of the mods do some sort of search for people that have the Troy Built splitters listed as part of their sig line and alert them to check this thread  :-S  Are there other splitters that use this same cylinder?



I believe troy bilt, yardman, MTD, Craftsman, cub cadet are just to name a few but I'm not 100% sure.  Anyone know different please correct me and add any missing.

It's been almost 48 hrs since I wrote Troy Bilt customer service and no response.  Service sure is alot quicker taking the money to make the purchase.


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## triptester

If rewelding does not solve the problem another solution would be to replace the OEM cylinder ( $450.00 ) with almost any standard cylinder . Welded rear mount cylinders can be converted to front mount with 4 long rods and 2 plates. Tie-rod cylinders only require 4 new rods and 1 front plate.
Attached is a pic of a Cat cylinder that was shortened and changed for front mount.


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## ANeat

This one looks pretty close 

https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=9-7849&catname;=


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## fidiro

Finally got a response from Troy Bilt customer service and it seems that I will be going around in circles with them.  

Here is the reply I got from them:  

As a manufacturer, we provide a limited warranty with each of our products. The written warranty can be found in the owner’s manual. We ask that customers utilize a local Troy-Bilt Factory Authorized Service Center for determination of the cause of the failure of the product. The service center would be able to gather the necessary information and provide it to our Customer Service Department to determine the best course of action.

For further assistance with this issue, please contact one of our authorized service centers in your area.

Title: Where can I get Troy-Bilt service?
URL: http://troybilt.custhelp.com/cgi-bi.../std_adp.php?p_faqid=262&p_created=1035203510

We certainly expect our equipment to operate for a number of years before requiring unusual or expensive maintenance. Our policies are established to be fair to all owners and we apologize for any inconvenience that has been experienced in this matter.


I was hoping for a happy quick fix from them but now I guess I have to take it to my local service center to have them assess my problem and see if Troy Bilt will take care of me.  I will be going there tomorrow and I will post what the service center has to say.


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## fidiro

Well now I contacted the local TB service guy and being that it's almost 6 years old he says I'm pretty much stuck with buying a replacement as Troy Bilt, that is built to not last, will probably not cover it.  He's not even willing to try.

Their product is what the pictures show and their service is just as bad.  I'm staying clear of any future MTD or such related products.


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## bsticks

In this day and age, the customer no longer is priority #1. I hope your eyes get clear and keep trying a saline solution to keep your eyes moist and tearing. That should wash out residue inside the eye.


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## TMonter

I had a horrible experience with an MTD mini tiller a couple years back. I bought an Echo mini-tiller last year and haven't looked back. I simply won't buy MTD products any more because of their poor customer service.


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## fidiro

ANeat said:
			
		

> This one looks pretty close
> 
> https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=9-7849&catname;=



This one looks like an exact match.  Thanks for the find.  It looks so much alike that I hope it's not the same manufacturer.  

First I am going to try and figure out how to take the piston apart from the cylinder and attempt to weld it this weekend.


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## Gooserider

I would STRONGLY advise severe caution in regards to welding on hydraulic cylinders...  

Hydraulic cylinders and especially the trunnion mount points on them are highly stressed areas, and if the welding on them is not done with extreme care, one is running a considerable risk of leakage at best and catastrophic failure (and injury) as bad or worse than what we've seen earlier in this thread - this is not a suitable project for teaching yourself how to weld.....

Obviously I don't know what anyone else's experience and / or equipment credentials are, and so if you are an expert welder w/ pressure vessel experience, and so on, feel free to ignore me on this, otherwise...  My own feeling is that unless I did pressure vessel welding for a living, I would sooner spend the relatively small cost for a replacement cylinder, rather than trying to mess with a DIY repair (and if you have to pay for a pro welder, it will probably cost about as much as a new cylinder anyway...)

Gooserider


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## ANeat

Well they are obviously getting some failures now.  I think the worst part of re-welding the cylinder would be dis-assembling and re-assembling, then you would still have the same questionable cylinder with a new weld.  I wouldnt recommend welding the cylinder assembled as there would be the potential for some scale to develop on the inside contaiminating the hydraulics.....not to mention the possibility of the heat destroying any seals.

 Still tough to tell from the pics if its just a poor weld or some type of material/design flaw (or a combination)


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## ANeat

If possible while I was welding on stuff I would try to add some type of shield/guard to keep any oil off of me when (if) it happens again  


 Ive had a few hot oil baths over the years working on various machines, its not the end of the world but I try to avoid it..  :lol:


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## fidiro

Gooserider said:
			
		

> I would STRONGLY advise severe caution in regards to welding on hydraulic cylinders...
> 
> Hydraulic cylinders and especially the trunnion mount points on them are highly stressed areas, and if the welding on them is not done with extreme care, one is running a considerable risk of leakage at best and catastrophic failure (and injury) as bad or worse than what we've seen earlier in this thread - this is not a suitable project for teaching yourself how to weld.....
> 
> Obviously I don't know what anyone else's experience and / or equipment credentials are, and so if you are an expert welder w/ pressure vessel experience, and so on, feel free to ignore me on this, otherwise...  My own feeling is that unless I did pressure vessel welding for a living, I would sooner spend the relatively small cost for a replacement cylinder, rather than trying to mess with a DIY repair (and if you have to pay for a pro welder, it will probably cost about as much as a new cylinder anyway...)
> 
> Gooserider



Thanks gooserider for the advise.  Although I own an Ironman 250 mig I am not a professional welder.  It's OK I'll hold Troy Bilt responsible for the outcome since their customer service is so great I'll definately get a new cylinder for free from them after I weld this one.LOL  Before I start I'm going to take more pics with a digital camera as the ones I uploaded were taken with my phone and are not perfect.  I want to have clean looking memories of why I should stay away from MTD products.

I'm going to attempt the weld still and keep my blury eyes on the cylinder for the first few rounds of split testing.

Thanks again for the tips and your concern but really don't want to dish almost 300 w/shipping on this thing right now, It'll still be partial Troy Bilt if I replace the cylinder and I don't want to see that name on anything I own.


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## Tackleman24

Although they have only had the contract for the last 5 yrs or so and I am not aware who had it before I previously (but no longer) worked at a company called Waltco Truck Equip in Tallmadge OH in their hydraulics division. We made these cylinders for a company that in turn assembled the splitter except the engine and other finishing touches and then MTD installed the engine and rest of stuff after painting them red & black for Troy Bilt, yellow for Cub Cadet and so on. As previously stated do not weld on a high pressure vessel if you do not know what you are doing, basically if you are not a pro you are risking your life by using the cylinder after welding on it. Also, the inside of the cylinder will most likely be ruined by welding on it again, those cylinders are honed to exact dimensions accurate within 0.0005” or less and welding on it causes a scale and distortion or warp in the metal and seals will be ruined and fluid will gush out. Honestly the design is pi*s poor and our engineers told the customer (MTD) that the design was flawed and prone to failure on a significant percentage of cylinders which figures out to about 1 out of every 250 will suffer catastrophic failure, however MTD demanded the design remain the same. An acceptable rate of failure is usually somewhere in the ball park of 1 out of every 500 at a minimum. Normally Waltco would warranty failures on large quantity accounts even if it is past the stated coverage term and even a failure on something 6 yrs old but on that account/ design they would not warranty it past the stated term. Now if this becomes an issue and a recall is performed it will be MTD’s responsibility as they were officially warned that the design was flawed and prone to failures. Now I am not bashing MTD, I own a Troy Bilt model but have had no problems with the cylinder but keep an eye out for them.  I bought it because I can get a cylinder from friends that work there if an issue should occur. There is another design flaw in the design of the splitter itself, the log cradles are weak and tend to bend themselves or break bolts all together and the mount for the cradle tends to damage the low pressure hose that returns the fluid from the top of the cylinder to the filter and then into the tank. I have replaced at least a dozen cradle bolts and the return hose twice now, 2nd time was last week. Although those are relatively cheap and easy to fix it is still a major flaw and should be fixed under warranty but Troy Bilt say that happens due to negligence and/ or abuse which is BS. When I bought mine 3 yrs ago I bought one that I personally welded (yes I can tell by my numbered stamp on the cylinder) and take care of it. So far 3 yrs old with about 30-35 cords of wood and no major failures.


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## bsticks

I welded my cylinder by keeping the entire area around the weld point very cool. I didn't take forever in getting the new weld completed because I was concerned about the packing inside the cylinder.

So far, so good. Everything is holding true.

I do wear safety goggles since my incident and gloves on my hands. At least I can protect my eyes and hands, god forbid this lets go.


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## fidiro

Tackleman24 said:
			
		

> Although they have only had the contract for the last 5 yrs or so and I am not aware who had it before I previously (but no longer) worked at a company called Waltco Truck Equip in Tallmadge OH in their hydraulics division. We made these cylinders for a company that in turn assembled the splitter except the engine and other finishing touches and then MTD installed the engine and rest of stuff after painting them red & black for Troy Bilt, yellow for Cub Cadet and so on. As previously stated do not weld on a high pressure vessel if you do not know what you are doing, basically if you are not a pro you are risking your life by using the cylinder after welding on it. Also, the inside of the cylinder will most likely be ruined by welding on it again, those cylinders are honed to exact dimensions accurate within 0.0005” or less and welding on it causes a scale and distortion or warp in the metal and seals will be ruined and fluid will gush out. Honestly the design is pi*s poor and our engineers told the customer (MTD) that the design was flawed and prone to failure on a significant percentage of cylinders which figures out to about 1 out of every 250 will suffer catastrophic failure, however MTD demanded the design remain the same. An acceptable rate of failure is usually somewhere in the ball park of 1 out of every 500 at a minimum. Normally Waltco would warranty failures on large quantity accounts even if it is past the stated coverage term and even a failure on something 6 yrs old but on that account/ design they would not warranty it past the stated term. Now if this becomes an issue and a recall is performed it will be MTD’s responsibility as they were officially warned that the design was flawed and prone to failures. Now I am not bashing MTD, I own a Troy Bilt model but have had no problems with the cylinder but keep an eye out for them.  I bought it because I can get a cylinder from friends that work there if an issue should occur. There is another design flaw in the design of the splitter itself, the log cradles are weak and tend to bend themselves or break bolts all together and the mount for the cradle tends to damage the low pressure hose that returns the fluid from the top of the cylinder to the filter and then into the tank. I have replaced at least a dozen cradle bolts and the return hose twice now, 2nd time was last week. Although those are relatively cheap and easy to fix it is still a major flaw and should be fixed under warranty but Troy Bilt say that happens due to negligence and/ or abuse which is BS. When I bought mine 3 yrs ago I bought one that I personally welded (yes I can tell by my numbered stamp on the cylinder) and take care of it. So far 3 yrs old with about 30-35 cords of wood and no major failures.



WOW, it is a pleasure to have someone come here that knows the background of this problem firsthand.  Thank you for the support.  This splitter was not a rental, not used to split and sell wood, it was used to split about 8 cords of wood per season to keep my family warm in the winter and it almost finished splitting the 6th season.  I hear stories of peoples' great grandfathers handing down their equipment to the great grandchildren, you know where I'm going with this.  Troy bilt splitters I guess will never get to be handed down and talked about 20 years from now if they don't step in and fix the problems they know about.  I really thought this was a tough machine but bought it without doing any internet searches, I saw a honda engine and saw a great splitter I was sold on the Honda.  Sad decision.

I am no engineer but If that cylinder was double walled just in that area, I think it would make a world of a difference.  Instead of being 1/4 walled the whole length make it 1/2" just about 10" in from the end, to strenghten that area where the pins get welded.  Again I'm no engineer but the double thickness of the wall and properly welded would probably make this cylinder a hand me down one day, it'll probably outlast the honda motor.

Hey Tackleman, how about setting up a  supper deal on replacement cylinders with your friends for us members here.  But don't set up the cylinders with Troy Bilt stickers on them, instead make a sticker saying 'TACKLEMAN SUPPER SPLITTER The hand me down king of splitters'  LOL


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## fidiro

bsticks said:
			
		

> I welded my cylinder by keeping the entire area around the weld point very cool. I didn't take forever in getting the new weld completed because I was concerned about the packing inside the cylinder.
> 
> So far, so good. Everything is holding true.
> 
> I do wear safety goggles since my incident and gloves on my hands. At least I can protect my eyes and hands, god forbid this lets go.



I didn't see a reason for goggles but do wear gloves and those big ear muffs to keep some noise out.  The cycle time is so slow that I didn't see any reason for glasses but since this happened I guess I should start using them since I don't trust the rest of this pile of soft metal.


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## DanCorcoran

If you really want some action on this issue, I strongly suggest that you file a formal complaint with the Consumer Product Safety Commission.  You need to highlight the safety risks associated with these failures.  
They can force manufacturers to issue recalls and/or product re-design.


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## fidiro

DanCorcoran said:
			
		

> If you really want some action on this issue, I strongly suggest that you file a formal complaint with the Consumer Product Safety Commission.  You need to highlight the safety risks associated with these failures.
> They can force manufacturers to issue recalls and/or product re-design.




HMMMMM.  I didn't know I would have a chance or power to do such a thing but I guess it's worth a shot.  I really didn't want it to get to this though, but if it has to I'll try it.

I actually got another response from TB and it says:

Our experience has shown that the most fair manner in which to make any warranty service decision is to have an independent third party gather all of the information and make this decision based on what is fair to all parties involved. Our network of independently owned and operated authorized warranty service centers are the persons that our company has entrusted to make these determinations.

These independently owned and operated authorized warranty service centers are entrusted to physically inspect any product service issues and then fairly determine if all or any portion the service required is applicable under any of provisions of the product warranty. 

Our warranty payment centers support these warranty applicability decisions made by these authorized service centers and issues all valid and applicable warranty service payments, submitted to us by these service centers, directly to the servicing center. 

To assure a fair an unbiased decision is made by these independent service centers our company generally reimburses these service centers the following payments for warranty services performed by their staff:
A) The service centers contracted shop labor rate.
B) The price of any service parts and supplies specifically required to perform any warranted service.
And 
C) An additional warranty claim processing fee (to cover any additional time required by them to process and submit any warranty claims for payment). 

These policies and procedures are common for most companies that utilize independently owned and operated authorized warranty service centers to perform warranty service. 

Please review the specific product warranty for a detailed explanation of product warranty coverage and limitations.

Please utilize the Service Center locator link within this support site to generate a list of local authorized warranty service centers.

NOTE: Consumers that disagree with any warranty applicable decision made by these independently owned authorized warranty service centers are welcome to consult with another independently owned authorized warranty service center for a second opinion.


I guess I should first try another service center to see what they say.  I'm going to take some more digital pics first, powerwash the oil off so that I don't get it all over myself and take it in for inspection.  If it doens't go my way I'll go file with the safety commission.


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## fidiro

bsticks said:
			
		

> I welded my cylinder by keeping the entire area around the weld point very cool. I didn't take forever in getting the new weld completed because I was concerned about the packing inside the cylinder.
> 
> So far, so good. Everything is holding true.
> 
> I do wear safety goggles since my incident and gloves on my hands. At least I can protect my eyes and hands, god forbid this lets go.



I think that your cylinder could be a bigger risk now at anytime.  Because TB didn't honor you a replacement you did what anyone would do that has a welder on hand.  But did the heat create a weaker cylinder like it is being mentioned here, hope not but do use caution.  I still say that the cylinder should be beefed up to 1/2" around the pins from factory not homemade.  Even the welded on fitting should be beefed up just in case.


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## fire_man

pelletnubi said:
			
		

> This has to be a problem as mine blew open yesterday.  I'm still trying to wash out the hydraulic fluid out of my eyes as I took a bath in oil.   The clothes I was wearing went into the garbage truck today and they felt like they had 2 gallons of oil.  The ground is still a pool of oil.  What a mess.
> 
> I want to do some more research on this problem but my eyes burn too much if I stare at the computer more than 10 minutes.
> 
> I smell a recall and it better happen soon before bigger injuries come from the hot oil.
> 
> I wrote troy bilt yesterday and still no response.  I'm going to wait it off for a response and go from there.
> 
> A metal cylinder was not built to withstand 27 tons of pressure but all the rubber hoses and seals are, hmmmmmmmmmmmm.  We must have a 200 ton pump and 500 ton rubber hoses/seals with the steel only capable of 10 tons.  Troy Bilt better step up to a recall.  The weld shows only about 1/16" was welded to cylinder.



Pelletnubi: Can you please explain where you were standing when the oil sprayed in your eyes - how far from the cylinder and how far it sprayed? After reading this I am no longer going to let my 11 year old kid anywhere near this thing when it's running (he usually helps bring logs to near the cradle area). I guess goggles are a must - how are your eyes doing??


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## fidiro

fire_man said:
			
		

> pelletnubi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This has to be a problem as mine blew open yesterday.  I'm still trying to wash out the hydraulic fluid out of my eyes as I took a bath in oil.   The clothes I was wearing went into the garbage truck today and they felt like they had 2 gallons of oil.  The ground is still a pool of oil.  What a mess.
> 
> I want to do some more research on this problem but my eyes burn too much if I stare at the computer more than 10 minutes.
> 
> I smell a recall and it better happen soon before bigger injuries come from the hot oil.
> 
> I wrote troy bilt yesterday and still no response.  I'm going to wait it off for a response and go from there.
> 
> A metal cylinder was not built to withstand 27 tons of pressure but all the rubber hoses and seals are, hmmmmmmmmmmmm.  We must have a 200 ton pump and 500 ton rubber hoses/seals with the steel only capable of 10 tons.  Troy Bilt better step up to a recall.  The weld shows only about 1/16" was welded to cylinder.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pelletnubi: Can you please explain where you were standing when the oil sprayed in your eyes - how far from the cylinder and how far it sprayed? After reading this I am no longer going to let my 11 year old kid anywhere near this thing when it's running (he usually helps bring logs to near the cradle area). I guess goggles are a must - how are your eyes doing??
Click to expand...


I was holding about an 16-20" round on top of splitter with my left arm.  Right hand on control handle and I guess I was looking down at the wedge going into log with my face too close to cylinder maybe 20" away, never really thought about heavy metal losing against firewood so I basically hug the whole machine and just keep my hands off the runway and pinch points, then it all happened in seconds.  I have a 7 year old son that I take once in a while as well and also keep my eye on him near the machine but now I will keep him a few steps farther.  He likes to watch so I'll get him binoculars.LOL

Eyes are fine now and residue and smell of hydro on skin washed away, mostly on my arms.  I was wearing short sleeves and jeans so mostly harms and some soaked into shirt chest area.  It probably traveled at most 4 ft in other directions.


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## squish

Don't give up ! you should not have to repair problems that were not your fault,not even that,but i think that this company need's to look over there equip a little bit better,so hopefully nobody else get's hurt.Keep on bugging them till you get the answer's you deserve! good luck!


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## scojen

I'm a little worried now as I just bought this splitter not too long ago. So far no problems. I do appreciate those that had this issue, bringing it to attention, so that now I can be mindful of it and keep an eye on it. please keep us updated with any developments so other owners will know what to do.Thanks!


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## ANeat

Its always a good idea to have safety glasses on anytime youre around a splitter.  There are some really nice/inexpensive ones out there.  Not just from your cylinder exploding (LOL) but just stuff flying around in general when wood gets split.

  Get a nice pair of safety/sunglasses.


----------



## DanCorcoran

FYI...the Consumer Product Safety Commission doesn't take action based on individual complaints.  They open a file on a product and collect reports as they are submitted.  If it appears there is a problem affecting multiple consumers, then they launch an investigation.  Everyone who has a safety-related issue with any of these splitters should file, for the common good.


----------



## fidiro

DanCorcoran said:
			
		

> FYI...the Consumer Product Safety Commission doesn't take action based on individual complaints.  They open a file on a product and collect reports as they are submitted.  If it appears there is a problem affecting multiple consumers, then they launch an investigation.  Everyone who has a safety-related issue with any of these splitters should file, for the common good.



Looks like this has to be my next step and hope others with the same problems do the same.

I struggled to pull the splitter onto a trailer to take it in to get an opinion.  The service guy looked at the cylinder/piston and basically said H-ly $h!t.  He said he'll call TB and explain to them the situation.  He went in the back to call and came back to tell me they said it's out of their 2 year warranty and can't do anything about it. NO $h!t TB, I already said how long it's been around.  I know it's out of warranty.  He even said that they said that it got damaged because something else caused it and not a bad weld.  I know exactly what caused it, it was me splitting wood.  It got damaged doing exactly what it was made to do and nothing else.  Face it, it was a bad cylinder and there are more out there looking for the same outcome.  I'm looking to show that this is a defect and needs to be addressed.  How many more pics do I need to show that the weld was weak.  1/16" is not enough to support the pressure this puts out.  

To make matters worse I thought that the holding bracket was bolted on to the I-Beam and it's welded.  Both sides twisted up some one worse then the other.  When I thought it was bolted on I was going to pull them off and straighten but now I will have to heat & straighten them in place, but will that weaken it.  They will never be perfect and may even cause more problems later on.

This thing was purchased from a dealer not Lowes.  If it was bought at lowes it would have been a few hundred less, enough for me to buy a new cylinder with a different name on it.


----------



## oldspark

I now know what splitter I will NOT be buying.


----------



## fidiro

Just want to add more pics to show in more detail the damage.


----------



## fidiro

Anyone know how to remove the collar on this thing.  This second pic shows a clip but don't see a way to remove it unless it gets pushed down then remove the ring clip and then slide piston out together.


----------



## ROBERT F

Now that the trunion mount is bent, everytime the splitter starts to apply pressure, it will load one side more than the other, causing the next failure to happen that much faster.  And thats one of the reasons that design is flawed from the begining.  it is a lighter weight design, uses less raw material, and has other merits, but overall the full beam has proven to be stronger in the long run me thinks.


----------



## Danno77

Pineburner said:
			
		

> Now that the trunion mount is bent, everytime the splitter starts to apply pressure, it will load one side more than the other, causing the next failure to happen that much faster.  And thats one of the reasons that design is flawed from the begining.  it is a lighter weight design, uses less raw material, and has other merits, but overall the full beam has proven to be stronger in the long run me thinks.


I'm no engineer, but I agree. It seems that a safer design would be to have a sleeve/cup that the cylinder is inside of. this sleeve would have the trunnions welded to it.


----------



## fidiro

This is what I wrote TB after I came back from service:

Well took the splitter in to a local service center. When service guy saw the cylinder he couldn't believe what he saw and went to explain the situation to whoever they call at Troy Bilt. The answer from troy bilt was it's out of the 2 yr warranty and it's not covered, I never said it was going to be a warranty issue. I know warranty is over but this is a problem that exists and is waiting to happen to others as well. I will not stop here and will continue to find the answers as to why this has not been recalled. Since this is not going as I would like, I am going to attempt to weld this Faulty HIGH PRESSURE cylinder for now and hope if it fails after welding, it's not as bad. 

I was told that I can bring this to the attention of the Consumer Product Safety Commission and will do so, as my pictures do not tell the story enough to get my splitter fixed by Troy Bilt. Here's a link to more pics I posted for everyone to see and decide if the log I had on the splitter was the cause of this failure: https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/57455/P45/ 

Hoping that this can get to higher power and get me the fix that I deserve and make a newer design that will eliminate this problem.


AND THIS IS WHAT THEY WROTE BACK:

Naturally, we are concerned when a customer feels their complaint has not been handled to their satisfaction.

However, it is impossible to please everyone all of the time. Unfortunately, this appears to be one of those situations when our explanation did not meet with approval.

Relying on our experience and judgment we analyze and review each situation on its own merits, consider to the best of our ability the facts that are available to us and then inform the customer of our decision, accordingly by following this procedure, we have no choice but to tell you that our position regarding this matter has not changed. 

This determination is something that we must do based upon our experience and the information on hand.

We do appreciate the opportunity to review our customers opinion of this decision and for giving us the opportunity of offering an explanation and we do hope that our final decision and explanation will be reviewed objectively.


----------



## ROBERT F

lets see, warranty was over on the toyota's that had frame rust issues, but enough people had issues that the recall occured.  how many toyotas were recalled out of warranty due to gas pedals?  I had a 94 f-350 that I still get safety recalls on all the time.  Way out of warranty.  difference is, that people and probably many, were severly injured to make those recals and subsequent law suits happen.  Maybe thats what troy built is waiting for.  A major class action law suit, based on defective product, for them to change their mind.


----------



## Highbeam

They didn't investigate, they jsut compared their warranty to the age of the machine. Warranty has nothing to do with it, safety recalls happen forever. TB is liable forever. 

I agree with pineburner and have a 2000 Ford being recalled every so often for fixes. They send a letter, fix the defect for free, and I am a happy camper and don't think any worse of Ford for it. 

This is a money thing and TB has decided it is cheaper to risk injury to all owners than to address the problem. You TB owners are the victim of a value decision. I am not impressed with the company and I will remember this for a long time.


----------



## lazeedan

Maybe Troy Built should be reminded how fast and wide spread the internet can spread facts about problems with their product. What is the contact info for their complaint department?


----------



## fidiro

Here's the number in case anyone is interested in any of their products 1-800-520-5520

Thanks guys for giving this problem hope by keeping this thread alive.  

It's bad enough that their product is showing flaws, this way everyone knows that their service for recalls will be just as bad for now.  I need to make this clear again, I know I'm out of warranty.  I knew when I first wrote TB.  The problem is not a warranty issue it is a RECALL related issue.  Maybe they do think that the net does not travel fast enough to hurt sales.  Remember customer service is worth as much as a good product.  It will keep people coming back for other products because they will be at ease knowing they will be taken care of.  Bad products and good service still brings people back for more.  But, when you have a bad product and bad service well sales will definately suffer.

It seems TB is well off and does not need to gain customers because of situations like this or simply don't care about losing any.

In house testing is not enough, these things need real life tests and we are it.  When something fails like this, fix it right and go on to make a better design/product.  This 27 ton cylinder needs 1/2" wall at the trunion with a good solid weld, not 1/16" weld onto a 1/4" cylinder wall.  Let's see how long it will take to redesign this style splitter or beef up the cylinder wall and trunion mounting plates.  I vote to testing a beefed up cylinder with stronger trunion plates.  I must be dreaming of that so called hand me down splitter that great great grandfathers gave to their great, great grandchildren. 

I wonder how old the oldest splitter is that is still in service from a factory build.  Not Homemade, although homemade are made pretty tough but not easily transportable.  Has a thread about that come by these forums yet.


----------



## ROBERT F

Some of the oldest splitters still in operation today were of the greatest designs ever.  Custom built, hand forged, axes, mauls and hatchets! Can't go wrong with time tested methods!


----------



## Tackleman24

The engineers at Waltco came up with a few fixes for this problem but the customer decided against them becase they would have to slightly change the mounts and/ or the fluid lines. The first fix was to change the location and type of bottom mount/ fluid port. On the original design which is still currently being used (atleast I think) there is a trunion mount that also serves as the lower fluid port and the proposed change would have made that trunion soild like the other side and then relocate the lower fluid port an inch or so but the fluid lines and control valve would have needed moved as well or changed all together. Now the second "fix idea" would have added a collar or sleve around the outside of the cylinder.and have the trunions welded to the collar so the stress was not directly on the cylinder and a fluid port. 

My suggestion is do what I do to keep from putting any extreme stress on the trunions and that is any log that does not split easy (like ones with large knots etc) take those logs and toss them in a pile somewhere to dry out more or cutt them with a saw so you do not have to split through the hard crap. I do this all the time so I do not put extreme stress on the trunions. I also inspect the trunions for wear & tear every time I put gas in the engine. I have done this from the day I bought it and will continue till I get a new splitter. Honestly the reason I bought this model was the highway trailering ability, the kind that Tractor Supply sells are built more tough and have a top mount cylinder but the tires are not highway use tires and have no fenders so they can not be towed on the road and the Troy Bilt or Cub Cadet models (which are identical except the paint) are highway legal.


----------



## fidiro

Tackleman24 said:
			
		

> The engineers at Waltco came up with a few fixes for this problem but the customer decided against them becase they would have to slightly change the mounts and/ or the fluid lines. The first fix was to change the location and type of bottom mount/ fluid port. On the original design which is still currently being used (atleast I think) there is a trunion mount that also serves as the lower fluid port and the proposed change would have made that trunion soild like the other side and then relocate the lower fluid port an inch or so but the fluid lines and control valve would have needed moved as well or changed all together. Now the second "fix idea" would have added a collar or sleve around the outside of the cylinder.and have the trunions welded to the collar so the stress was not directly on the cylinder and a fluid port.
> 
> My suggestion is do what I do to keep from putting any extreme stress on the trunions and that is any log that does not split easy (like ones with large knots etc) take those logs and toss them in a pile somewhere to dry out more or cutt them with a saw so you do not have to split through the hard crap. I do this all the time so I do not put extreme stress on the trunions. I also inspect the trunions for wear & tear every time I put gas in the engine. I have done this from the day I bought it and will continue till I get a new splitter. Honestly the reason I bought this model was the highway trailering ability, the kind that Tractor Supply sells are built more tough and have a top mount cylinder but the tires are not highway use tires and have no fenders so they can not be towed on the road and the Troy Bilt or Cub Cadet models (which are identical except the paint) are highway legal.




I was hoping that you had some connections with someone in the field of making these to make a cylinder with the xtra 1/4" @ the collar.  Anyone know someon with cylinder skills to come up with this tougher design?  All is needed would be the cylinder shell itself to fit the original inside piston.


----------



## Tackleman24

I know some people that work there still but management hates me, my work accident has cost several million in workers comp funds. You can get any local machine shop that specializes in hydraulics to make a cylinder with the mods you want. The problem is a big shop will not make just one cylinder, they want contracts with quanity and a small shop will do it for you however the cost will most likely be so high that you can almost buy another splitter. Now this is a rough figure but if I remember correctly when we bought the cylinder tubes from our supplier Scott Ind just the cut tubing that is the right dia length and honed to the right inside dia was roughly $50 a piece then the end caps, trunions, rod (chrome rod that extends), pistons, all the seals etc. Basically just the cost for material and labor put the cost of the cylinder somewhere in the $400 range and they most likely sell to the customer at about $500 to $550 and that price is based off of quanity contracts. So I imagine the cost for a single cylinder would be at a minimum of $900 if you could find a small shop to do it. I was a welder and machinist and not sales so my figures there are just rough guestimates off the fact that I have seen some invoices and other documents. You might be better off getting a similar cylinder from Tractor Supply and fabricating the mounts to work.


----------



## ANeat

pelletnubi said:
			
		

> I was hoping that you had some connections with someone in the field of making these to make a cylinder with the xtra 1/4" @ the collar.  Anyone know someon with cylinder skills to come up with this tougher design?  All is needed would be the cylinder shell itself to fit the original inside piston.


 

 If it was mine I would straighten out the trunion, weld the original break,  then make up a sleeve to go over the entire trunion area and weld that on.  

 Even after that I would probably add something on to the tail end of the splitter to support the rear of the cylinder


----------



## Tackleman24

The problem is he will almost immediately blow the seals if he tries to fix that cylinder. The interior of a high pressure cylinder has to accurate within a minimum of 0.001 of an inch but most are held to within 0.0005. The interior surface has to be perfectly smooth, if there is a edge from the break (which there will be) the seal will catch and fail not to mention the scale that will develop on the inside after re-welding. I know it seems crazy as before I worked for that company I never thought something had to be that exact and I had worked in other machine and fabrication shops before. Everything has to be perfectly exact for it to work properly. I guess the worst that can happen is you waste a little time and effort trying. However I strongly suggest that you wear ALL THE PROTECTION YOU CAN THINK OFF and possibly use a stick or something so you can operate the control handle from a safer distance because I would say that at best there is a 1 in 5 chance of not having a severe failure of some sort. Good luck and I hope it works out.


----------



## fidiro

I have to wait at least 30 days now since I wrote to the Consumer Product Safety Commission.  Then I will find a way to take it apart and play with my welder and pray for the best.

Anyone know how it comes apart?  There's nothing for tools to hook to so it looks like it gets banged in then take out clip and then pull cap of with the rest of the piston, does this seem right? If it was threaded shouldn't there be something to work with tools.  

 Here's the pic again of what it looks like on the side it needs to come apart at.


----------



## leaddog

pelletnubi said:
			
		

> I have to wait at least 30 days now since I wrote to the Consumer Product Safety Commission.  Then I will find a way to take it apart and play with my welder and pray for the best.
> 
> Anyone know how it comes apart?  There's nothing for tools to hook to so it looks like it gets banged in then take out clip and then pull cap of with the rest of the piston, does this seem right? If it was threaded shouldn't there be something to work with tools.
> 
> Here's the pic again of what it looks like on the side it needs to come apart at.


Looks like you need to press the end cap in slightly and the snap ring  should then be loose so you can pop it out of the groove. then the end piece should be able to be pushed out with the rod-piston assy.
To make sure the piston doesn't extend back on the welded part and messing up the piston seal you could add a end spacer on the end cap so it would stop the piston from coming back so far. But by doing so it would shorten the stroke by what ever the lenght of the spacer. But if you made the spacer a slip fit to the tube you could weld it in and the weld could penitrate from the trunion and make it stronger with more metal to weld to. The tube wouldn't be distorted as much that way.
It might just be better to look for a hilo trunion mount cyl of simular size at a scrap yard, craigslist, industrial supply, ebay.
leaddog


----------



## fidiro

Thanks leaddog

I'll try pulling it apart that way but I guess I need to wait and leave it as is for now until mid Oct.

I may only lose about 1" if I find a spacer to work, which is a good idea to save the seal and not a big deal on that little bit of stroke loss.  I could always attach a thicker metal block on end of Ibeam(don't know the name for that log stop), I'll lose the xtra log length capability but I rarely go over 18" and most are about 16".  So definately something to consider after it gets welded.  This design should have been looked over a long time ago to make a stronger trunion, but money is always the answer not to do it.  Thanks TB, MTD, Cub Cadet, Yard Machines or whoever the main company is for choosing to continue making this poor setup which I believe includes 20 21 22 25 27 ton models and others, but definately the 27 ton as you see.


----------



## Tackleman24

I believe what the other guy said about using a press to push down the bottom cap and take the pressure off the bottom cap and that should allow you to remove the split ring easy and then the entire rod assembly should slide out. I can not be positive but am almost sure that is a split ring assembly and not a threaded one. I am not an expert on assembly/ disassembly as I only did machining and welding but seen some assembly done. Also out of curriousity, which trunion broke? From the pics I can not really tell if it was the solid trunion (which rarely happens) or was it the one that was the threaded fluid port/ trunion (which is the one to commonly break).


----------



## fidiro

It's the solid one that ripped apart.  Both sides need thicker cylinder wall.  As it's been said in previous posts a cup over the cylinder (8" in would be great and would have prevented this from happening) and a good solid weld.  This is a floating cylinder, if it was used in a full I-Beam setup the cylinder as is would be good enough but the splitter design as is needs a cylinder makeover.  I love how splitter is light weight to move around by hand, BUT it is what you see, It's not built tough.  This design as is should not exceed 15 tons of working pressure, therefore reduce the pump output to make this a 15 ton model or make a cylinder that will take the pressure.


----------



## FORCE FAB

The major issue with  welding these is that the piston runs right passed the failed point....What i did was welded the mount back in and then converted to an end mount...I made the thing just a touch short so the piston will never get to the welded part again...Oh and on mine it wasnt the weld that failed it was the tube that ripped......Tube is way too thin to be a trunnion mount


----------



## fidiro

FORCE FAB, about how old was the splitter when it failed?  

This problem is going to be showing more and more as these splitters are prone to the same failure eventually.  I am going to keep worrying about if/when it will happen again when I weld the trunion back together.


----------



## gerry100

TRoyBilt was a great brand when they made rototillers in Troy,NY.

Since the wheels came off in '96 and they sold out to MTD they've been just another cheapass peice of equipment. Too Bad,


----------



## Mountain Man

I just bought this model at Lowes several weeks ago, after doing a little research on this site. Unfortunatly it was before this post started. I checked my cylinder today and noticed that the trunion pin is a little beefier than the one in your pics. I would guess they have themselves realized this was a problem and beefed it up on the newer models. Thus far this splitter has performed great. The Honda engine starts first pull every time, I just hope I don't have a similar problem with my splitter in a few years.


----------



## fidiro

Mountain Man said:
			
		

> I just bought this model at Lowes several weeks ago, after doing a little research on this site. Unfortunatly it was before this post started. I checked my cylinder today and noticed that the trunion pin is a little beefier than the one in your pics. I would guess they have themselves realized this was a problem and beefed it up on the newer models. Thus far this splitter has performed great. The Honda engine starts first pull every time, I just hope I don't have a similar problem with my splitter in a few years.



I knew they had a bad design and so did they that is why they changed it to this.  Now this pic shows a thicker pin at least grabbing some more cylinder wall.  Although it's a step up from the crap cylinder they started with it's still not what I would expect to see from them.

I'm still waiting for this design to step up to an additional 1/4 at the trunion with those newer thicker trunion pins, unless the whole cylinder was also changed to a thicker wall.  I have yet to make some time to weld mine up and hope it doesn't explode in my face.

Thanks for the pics, it shows some improvement and hope the 1/4" welded at the collar of the cylinder is their next step to fix this problem.  And after I weld mine up and just before it explodes again I hope the recall starts and I get a new one in the mail.  After all this writing and trips and calls and emails,(OH, I forgot the oil bath and spill that needed cleaning up), I should get a brand new 27 ton splitter replica of mine with a beefed up cylinder delivered to my door.  If that happened I would take all the crap I talked about TB back, but I'll wait for the recall to at least get a new ram.

TB, if your reading this shoot me a PM here so that I can give you the address to where you can drop off my brand new 27 ton splitter w/honda, with the thicker trunion and if you want to experiment on a thicker collar to weld the trunion pins on, that would be even better.  Pinch me I'm dreaming again.

Good luck with yours and thanks again for your pics.


----------



## Gooserider

Mountain Man said:
			
		

> I just bought this model at Lowes several weeks ago, after doing a little research on this site. Unfortunatly it was before this post started. I checked my cylinder today and noticed that the trunion pin is a little beefier than the one in your pics. I would guess they have themselves realized this was a problem and beefed it up on the newer models. Thus far this splitter has performed great. The Honda engine starts first pull every time, I just hope I don't have a similar problem with my splitter in a few years.



Hmmm...  Unless you have other reasons to really love the splitter, I seem to recall that Lowes has a "no questions asked" return policy on equipment purchases that lasts for a while - if still within that period, bringing the unit back with a printout of selected messages and photos from this thread might help get TB's attention - likewise looking for review sites that mention this unit and posting about the tale of woe....  Nothing like "Word of (BAD)Mouth" advertising...

As to wearing goggles - I wear eyeglasses anyways, (and as a result generally don't wear full goggles, but have chosen my glasses to give me about 95% of the protection, so effectively the same thing) so it is pretty much not something I think about, but I have had MANY occasions when I've been hit in the face, and several times where I've had stuff bounce off my glasses while splitting - bark fragments, dirt, wood splinters, etc...  Quite aside from the issue of catastrophic cylinder failures and oil baths, I would wear at least SOME level of eye protection when using a splitter just because of the risk of getting hit by splitter debris...  Even fancy, high quality goggles (which IMHO are worth it) are dirt cheap compared to trying to get replacement eyeballs...

Gooserider


----------



## fidiro

That would definately get them to see this in a different way if you took it back.  Take it back and tell them you want the cylinder to be made like this one around the trunion.  It's from a 96 Cat 416B w/single trunion mounted piston for front bucket and it's been through hard work, still original and still working as it should.  This is the design this splitter trunion will need to make it last longer than 6 years and it will still need to be watched as now I am afraid of anything else that will come from this splitter.

I will definately have the goggles/safety glasses on my safety gear now.  I always wore tight fitting leather gloves and ear protection but after this the eyes will need to be protected as well.


----------



## stytch64

I feel the pain of all these others.  Yesterday afternoon I next to had to clean my shorts out of something other than hydraulic oil.  O Lordy did she blow. Never gave any warning. My unit is only 4 yrs old and in my opinion gently used.  I have only split about 20 - 25 cord of wood.  This is dangerous! It is also heartbreaking to know that a company is being allowed to get away with this. Almost $500 for new cylinder is going to take away on Christmas this year. The worse part is that we rely on the split wood for our home heating and we will not be able to make the quota of wood we will need to get through the winter for a season. It looks like I will need to go back to the old fashioned maul and wedge. Does any one have any ideas on how to get a good quality replacement cylinder that is REASONABLY priced! I to will be contacting Troy Bilt and the Consumer Product Safety Commission because I do not want this to hurt anyone else.

weld break
full piston
different angle
clean break


----------



## ANeat

This might be a good replacement for your cylinder Stytch,   $229.00

https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=9-7849&catname;=


----------



## bogydave

WOW!
Several blowouts.

I'd also write my Federal & State legislatures.
Imagine some kid helping Dad or Grandpa?

It's time for a recall before metal fatigue causes more & more failures.
Injury to people & environmental damage. 
Looks & sounds like one of those lawyers looking for this type of lawsuit would jump at this.
Several tons of multi-directional stress with every split on this weld, many more are bound to fail.

Send this thread (or some of the pictures)  to Home Depot & other dealers of this model.
Drop a few pictures off at local dealers.

Local TV  new channel may even cover it if it's a slow news day.

Mind if I take a few of the pictures & send to my legislatures & reference this thread?


----------



## fidiro

bogydave said:
			
		

> WOW!
> Several blowouts.
> 
> I'd also write my Federal & State legislatures.
> Imagine some kid helping Dad or Grandpa?
> 
> It's time for a recall before metal fatigue causes more & more failures.
> Injury to people & environmental damage.
> Looks & sounds like one of those lawyers looking for this type of lawsuit would jump at this.
> Several tons of multi-directional stress with every split on this weld, many more are bound to fail.
> 
> Send this thread (or some of the pictures)  to Home Depot & other dealers of this model.
> Drop a few pictures off at local dealers.
> 
> Local TV  new channel may even cover it if it's a slow news day.
> 
> Mind if I take a few of the pictures & send to my legislatures & reference this thread?



Anything that you can add to help this become a recall faster is OK with me.  I'm sitting on mine untill I need to start splitting in the spring and then I'll put it back together with the original cylinder that I will be attempting to weld.  As you see in my pics my trunion mounts on the I-Beam are also all bent up so I will have to heat and bend them back creating more fatigue areas to fail because of that faulty cylinder design.  But because Troy Bilt has not taken care of my situation or others like mine, I have to heat and weld possibly creating a bigger problem, but I'm not spending another $1700 on a new one or not even spending 250 on a new cylinder, especially a cylinder that is designed the same as this one that will also eventually fail.  This is something that will have to be taken care of by TB.

I'll keep waiting for the PM from Troy Bilt asking me for the address where they can send me the newly designed 27 ton with a cylinder design like the Cat one I posted earlier.  Any time now.  I keep checking my mail and still nothing.  I'm sure they are just waiting for the signature from the president of TB to release a new splitter.

I seriously hope they don't wait for this to become more serious with bigger injuries as I know there are many out there that do take their kids to watch just like I did.


----------



## thinkxingu

I notice a lot of the designs either use the pin at the top of the cylinder or a plate across the top--it seems there'd be nothing to go wrong with those.  Is there a way to retro-fit the MTD/Troy Bilt, etc. models to do this?

S


----------



## benjamin

If it was me, I'd retrofit whatever you want onto it, at least once the manufacturer has washed their hands of it. 

I'd clamp that baby back together and weld it right on the splitter.  Fill the cylinder with argon or nitrogen or borrow a vacuum pump to pull a vacuum on the cylinder and don't worry about a little crud that will form inside. The piston seal shouldn't go past that port originally, it would never last. If the seal is that close that it now shows from the break, then you're out of luck. I still can't tell from the pics if this is the weld breaking or metal fatigue right next to the weld, but in either case you want to build it up to look like their new weld pattern. Take a look wherever they're sold. It sure wouldn't hurt to scab something onto the side tabs also.

As with any hairbrained comments, if it doesn't make sense to you, seek professional help.


----------



## fidiro

benjamin said:
			
		

> If it was me, I'd retrofit whatever you want onto it, at least once the manufacturer has washed their hands of it.
> 
> I'd clamp that baby back together and weld it right on the splitter.  Fill the cylinder with argon or nitrogen or borrow a vacuum pump to pull a vacuum on the cylinder and don't worry about a little crud that will form inside. The piston seal shouldn't go past that port originally, it would never last. If the seal is that close that it now shows from the break, then you're out of luck. I still can't tell from the pics if this is the weld breaking or metal fatigue right next to the weld, but in either case you want to build it up to look like their new weld pattern. Take a look wherever they're sold. It sure wouldn't hurt to scab something onto the side tabs also.
> 
> As with any hairbrained comments, if it doesn't make sense to you, seek professional help.



The more I looked at the weld and the tear the more it looks like it was the cylinder wall that just popped and ripped open along the weld.  The pins look like they were welded right onto the 1/4" wall of the cylinder without having holes cut out to set pins, not that the holes would help keep this together.  I don't know how it was built but it shouldn't happen on a machine listed as 27 tons.  This setup now shows that it was built to never exceed 15 tons and still think it's too much.  They will either have to beef up the cylinder wall and pins or drop the pump to a lower pressure closer to 15 tons to make this a safer setup, but dropping the working pressure will definately keep people from ever buying one.

The seal does come up to the break.  I would say the seal goes right up to about the middle of the pins.

I stopped at lowes the other day and saw the splitter and it looks like the trunion is still just like mine is.  It didn't have the thicker cly pins.  So I don't know if the new one in the previous posts is just one of the very first ones showing up or if I can't tell from the pic.

Until they double wall this cylinder, I wouldn't trust it with just thicker cly's so do keep alert. But I will hate that feeling that I have to keep watching for sudden failures, I want to split wood and not worry about the heavy metal parts cracking open.

They really need to test these cylinders with the double wall @ the trunion and thicker cly's.


----------



## fidiro

stytch64 said:
			
		

> I feel the pain of all these others.  Yesterday afternoon I next to had to clean my shorts out of something other than hydraulic oil.  O Lordy did she blow. Never gave any warning. My unit is only 4 yrs old and in my opinion gently used.  I have only split about 20 - 25 cord of wood.  This is dangerous! It is also heartbreaking to know that a company is being allowed to get away with this. Almost $500 for new cylinder is going to take away on Christmas this year. The worse part is that we rely on the split wood for our home heating and we will not be able to make the quota of wood we will need to get through the winter for a season. It looks like I will need to go back to the old fashioned maul and wedge. Does any one have any ideas on how to get a good quality replacement cylinder that is REASONABLY priced! I to will be contacting Troy Bilt and the Consumer Product Safety Commission because I do not want this to hurt anyone else.
> 
> weld break
> full piston
> different angle
> clean break



Have you had a chance to contact Troy Bilt and/or the safety commission.  Please keep us updated on your outcome


----------



## benjamin

I completely misunderstood the pictures.  I thought the pins were welded into a hole and the cylinder tore just outside of the weld.  Probably not salvageable in that case.

I looked at a new one the other day that had the same cylinder, pins and mounts, but the weld covered a far bigger area, not just one bead around the pin, like they were trying to strengthen it without redesigning anything major.


----------



## stytch64

Thank You all for the support you have given me. ANeat, Thank You very much for that link. That will help. Yes I have sent a letter to them and waiting for some sort of reply. This is what I said.

To whom it may concern,
I would like to inform you of a problem that I have had with your 27 ton log splitter. On October 7, 2010, I had the hydraulic cylinder blow up on me. I got showered in hot oil and as of the moment, I have some skin irritation which is currently subsiding. After collecting myself and taking several showers to get the oil off of me, I went to see what happened.  The trunnion on the right side tore away from the cylinder. Heartbroken and angry that my splitter tried killing me I started looking for a replacement part for the failed unit. What I found was that I am not the only one that this has happened to. I became aware of a ongoing serious and dangerous problem occurring. All of the other posts that I read are carbon copies to what has occurred to me. I am glad that so far no one has been seriously hurt or even hospitalized. I am by no means a metallurgist or hydraulic engineer but what I was reading made a lot of sense to me. From what I can tell and see from other trunnion designed cylinders is that the welds are not breaking but that the cylinder wall is too thin to support the pressures repeatedly put upon it. Other trunnion cylinders have a sleeve welded around the unit to give them the strength needed. In my opinion this should never have occurred. From reading what others have said about their units, I use my splitter gently, with only 20 to 25 cord of wood put through it. What I would like to see is a recall on these cylinders before something bad happens to someone else. Others online have mentioned that your company has already been informed of their failures as well and I am wondering what is being done about this situation. Please let me know if there is a recall currently in place and a redesigned part available. I am now afraid of buying a new replacement part that in my opinion will eventually fail as the others have. I am truly concerned about this and don’t want to see anyone else become a victim to this.   Thank You,


----------



## southland

I hope MTD/Troy Bilt  fixes this design problem.  I bought the Huskee 22 ton a few weeks ago.  I was leaning toward the this 27 ton, but this thread helped me decide on the Huskee instead.  So this problem has cost them at least one customer.


----------



## thinkxingu

Stytch, when you hear back, you should give them the links to this and other posts.  It would be nice to know if the new cylinders have been changed in some way--mine (two months old) looks much beefier and, as mentioned above, like they made some corrections.  If that's the case, they should warranty older ones with the known issue.

S


----------



## bogydave

Southland said:
			
		

> I hope MTD/Troy Bilt  fixes this design problem.  I bought the Huskee 22 ton a few weeks ago.  I was leaning toward the this 27 ton, but this thread helped me decide on the Huskee instead.  So this problem has cost them at least one customer.



TWO & probably growing!
 I also bought the Speeco (Huskee) splitter. I had it narrowed down to  Troybuilt & Speeco.
One reason I went with the Speeco, because I didn't like the design of the ram with welded small attachment points on the side of the ram.
Every-time it is use to split, tremendous force is exerted on these welded ears of which one is the hydraulic input port. 
These failures & pictures made my concerns justified.

I'm sure MTD will have to "make it right". When? How many more will fail before they do? 
Folks with one now that has failed not getting "customer service" is  a big down side to the issue.

Up side is it shouldn't take a welder long to modify the splitter to a "normal hydraulic ram configuration" 
to get those with one up & running safely.
$$cost is the issue here though, (less $$ than a new splitter I'd think)

Sure is a good thread.
Lots of good info.

Thanks for  the Alert & pictures. 
This forum is "Great" for this kind of communication. 
 Getting this kind of information passed around is "Golden"


----------



## fidiro

Who knows how many have failed and didn't turn to the net for info.  There are still people out there with no web connections that are possibly working these without knowing what will happen.  This thread will continue to grow with more failures from others.  I wouldn't purchase any replacement identical cylinder that will just blow up again in a few years.  I wouldn't even trust the one that looks like it got some extra weld, a sorry excuse for a redesign IMHO, to try to fix this problem.  I would only try to trust the thicker wall design  @ the trunion, that will surely come sooner or later if they know what's best.

When I emailed them I pasted a link to this thread so they can see the pics of their bad design, but I don't know if they follow these things.  I also pasted this thread to the safety commission.

Thanks for keeping us updated.

BTW, is there a way to edit the thread title to add  MTD, Cub Cadet, Yard Machines, Troy Bilt 27 ton Bad Cylinder Alert  

This way the other names don't feel left out since they are all the same.  Let's not forget that there are the 25 ton models that use the same setup as well but may take longer to blow up since pump pressure output is slightly lower.


----------



## fire_man

Does anybody know how old this Troy-Bilt 27 Ton Splitter Trunnion mount cylinder design is? It seems odd that all of a sudden there is a cluster of these failures. It would also be good to know the Year and Month purchased of the blown ones  posted on this thread so far: Stytch64, Pelletnubi ,Bsticks? 

Better yet a serial number located below the engine near the on/off swtich. Mine is  SN 1A089H40050 Model 24BF572B766 Purchased October 2009.

I researched this splitter extensively a year ago before purchasing it, and never a mention of this problem, now we have three cases in a few months.


----------



## fidiro

fire_man said:
			
		

> Does anybody know how old this Troy-Bilt 27 Ton Splitter Trunnion mount cylinder design is? It seems odd that all of a sudden there is a cluster of these failures. It would also be good to know the Year and Month purchased of the blown ones  posted on this thread so far: Stytch64, Pelletnubi ,Bsticks?
> 
> Better yet a serial number located below the engine near the on/off swtich. Mine is  SN 1A089H40050 Model 24BF572B766 Purchased October 2009.
> 
> I researched this splitter extensively a year ago before purchasing it, and never a mention of this problem, now we have three cases in a few months.



Mine is dated: I believe August 2003 by serial #.  I don't have it at home since it happened.  It's still covered in oil and don't want it dripping in my yard.

So figure if you split about 8-10 cords of wood per year, I would expect yours to fail in about 5 years or less.  But didn't Bsticks just own his for a year when his failed?


----------



## bogydave

I tried to write a review on Amazon
"Blue Max", I think  is that model there.
http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Max-27-Ton-Powered-Splitter/dp/B00274XQ80
Beyond my computer skills I guess. (couldn't get to the review site)

I have posted pics of the failures on other forums.
May or may not help but at least getting the info out there.


----------



## fidiro

bogydave said:
			
		

> I tried to write a review on Amazon
> "Blue Max", I think  is that model there.
> http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Max-27-Ton-Powered-Splitter/dp/B00274XQ80
> Beyond my computer skills I guess. (couldn't get to the review site)
> 
> I have posted pics of the failures on other forums.
> May or may not help but at least getting the info out there.



Thanks for spreading the news.  

No, that is not the one.  That one has a full I beam and the cylinder is being held by a plate on the end with 4 rods running the length of the cylinder.

I'll post a link to troy bilt site with the model.


----------



## fidiro

http://www.troybilt.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/category2_10001_14102_54998_54998_54998_-1#  There are reviews about the splitter and I was trying to find a way to write my own with this thread linked to it but I think you would have to buy one online to write a review.  Notice the slogan on the page about the splitters: 

Log Splitters
Our log splitters are built to last. They have a cast-iron splitting wedge that can be sharpened and replaced, plus enough force to power through your jobs.

They forgot to say: It has enough force to blow open the metal cylinder before it blows a hose or a seal.


These are the closest to mine.  These on the above link are the ones found at Lowes with the plastic fenders but these are also sold at dealers which are exactly the same but with towing lights and metal fenders like mine in the previous pics I posted.


----------



## stytch64

I don't remember when I bought it without dragging out receipt but according to the serial # it was manufactured May 12, 2006.


----------



## stytch64

I only split 4-5 cord a year and it has only been 4 yrs before my cylinder had it's premature catastrophic failure.

here is a link to tell when your unit was made.

http://www.troybilt.com/wcsstore/Ma.../media/ConsumerInspectionProcedures_Final.pdf


----------



## stytch64

OK, are there anymore forums out there that might have the same topic we are discussing. According to Troy Bilt, says "Based on the model and serial number you have provided, Troy-Bilt is unaware of any reoccurring issues associated with this product, specifically the cylinder or cylinder walls. " They then go on to recommend to take it into an authorized service center. So, I will. I don't know what they are expected to do but it might be worth a chuckle. I also might go and try to snap a picture of a new unit to see if the weld has been beefed up and if it has been I want to know why, if there have been no problems reported with them.


----------



## bogydave

stytch64 said:
			
		

> OK, are there anymore forums out there that might have the same topic we are discussing. According to Troy Bilt, says "Based on the model and serial number you have provided, Troy-Bilt is unaware of any reoccurring issues associated with this product, specifically the cylinder or cylinder walls. " They then go on to recommend to take it into an authorized service center. So, I will. I don't know what they are expected to do but it might be worth a chuckle. I also might go and try to snap a picture of a new unit to see if the weld has been beefed up and if it has been I want to know why, if there have been no problems reported with them.



Probably some other failures just nothing was done, just fixed it themselves or put it in the junk pile.
You may just be in the beginning stages of failures, the stress cracking (metal fatigue) may just be starting to show up.
Over time, IMO,  more are going to fail. Some will get reported, some not.

Here's one site (I posted it on) that calls a skunk a skunk.
Interesting comments from members.
http://idigmygarden.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37446


----------



## RNLA

I know none of you will believe me but here it goes. I do not like seeing people buying stuff and then it breaks... or worse yet hurts someone. That being said I think Troybuilt is having QC issues. I am not defending them either. I have a good friend who has the exact same spliter. He actually splits upwards of 100 cords per year. He had a motor give out from over use. TB warrentied the motor, which took forever... Bad customer service? Still I'm just saying they probably have a manufacturing problem. My friend is a fire wood supplier he buys logs, cuts, splits, and sells 100+ cords/ year. I will be warning him about this.


----------



## fidiro

stytch64 said:
			
		

> OK, are there anymore forums out there that might have the same topic we are discussing. According to Troy Bilt, says "Based on the model and serial number you have provided, Troy-Bilt is unaware of any reoccurring issues associated with this product, specifically the cylinder or cylinder walls. " They then go on to recommend to take it into an authorized service center. So, I will. I don't know what they are expected to do but it might be worth a chuckle. I also might go and try to snap a picture of a new unit to see if the weld has been beefed up and if it has been I want to know why, if there have been no problems reported with them.



That is actually a good idea to take a pic of the one that looks like it is welded more and ask why they added extra weld.  That extra weld is not going to stop this from happening anyway since the cylinder wall is too thin, but why did they add more weld.

I wonder if your service center will do more for you to get yours taken care of.


----------



## fidiro

stytch

Did you have a chance to get the splitter to a service dealer?  Any new details on this situation?


----------



## stytch64

I want to give an update about my situation with my log splitter. On Wednesday of last week I took the splitter to the first listed service center and they do not work on any repairs at their location. I then took it to the second location and they do not work on log splitter because of the hydraulics. I was very close to one of the most reputable welding and fabricating shops in our area to see what they thought. They felt that it should never have happened and could not tell me what caused the cylinder to fail but it was not the welds fault. I then went to the third place and they were hesitant to work on the splitter but a service tech came out to look at it. He was surprised and also felt that it should have not happened. He thought that it was a manufactures defect. I asked him if it was ok to tell Troy-Bilt what he said and he said no problem. I e-mailed Troy-Bilt Wednesday night to let them know the little bit xtra I found out for them. Now to wait. Thursday morning at around 10:30 I received a phone call from Troy-Bilt informing me that they talked to the service centers tech that I had spoke with. After talking with me about what happened the Troy-Bilt representative told me that they would be issuing me a RA# and sending a brand new cylinder to the service center to install on my splitter. WOW!! The icing on the cake, no cost out of pocket! I am really impressed with how quickly Troy-Bilt/MTD responded to my concerns and the fact that they accepted full responsibility and even though my warranty is up on my unit, they are fixing the problem.
I do not know what I did right but Troy-Bilt stepped up to the plate for me and in my book did a top notch thing. Thank You Troy-Bilt.


----------



## fire_man

WOW! Great to know. Thanks for the post update!


----------



## fidiro

Glad to hear that your getting yours taken care of.  So you took it to three different service depts?

I only took mine to the one closest to me and maybe it would help if I took the next closest one to give it a shot as well just to see if I can get the same service as you did.  Did you take the whole splitter or just the cylinder?  I would imagine that they will need to just see the cylinder.

I just let these things get to me and it gets frustrating to see this happen.


----------



## stytch64

I just took the cylinder in.  The first two places would not even look at the cylinder because they did not work on hydraulic log splitters. Like I said, I don't know what I did right but they hit a home run with me. Good Luck


----------



## Gooserider

Wonder how much the fact that the word on the problem seems to be spreading via these forums - How does it impact their sales???  I suspect that this kind of thing could lead to a major dent in the market, so you may be seeing "damage control" efforts of trying to at least keep the customer happy, so that posts read something like "it shouldn't have happened,but they took care of me" instead of "bleeping piece of crap broke and they won't fix it..."

Gooserider


----------



## thinkxingu

Hey All,
     I was at the local HD, so I asked how the Yard Machines splitter was selling--the person I spoke to said people have walked when they found out all they had was Yard Machines and Ariens (former because of issues, latter because of price).  I think most people buying splitters do at least some research, either via the 'net or by word-of-mouth, so this has got to be spreading.

S


----------



## fidiro

Gooserider said:
			
		

> Wonder how much the fact that the word on the problem seems to be spreading via these forums - How does it impact their sales???  I suspect that this kind of thing could lead to a major dent in the market, so you may be seeing "damage control" efforts of trying to at least keep the customer happy, so that posts read something like "it shouldn't have happened,but they took care of me" instead of "bleeping piece of crap broke and they won't fix it..."
> 
> Gooserider



My thoughts exactly.  I attempted another try to contact them and they will not cover it period.  It is almost 7 years old and it's not covered.  I can't wait till the recall and I'll have a grin from ear to ear.

I questioned why there is now more weld around the failing points and they said they use different manufaturers and things change over the years.  Why did they change manufactures just recently and add more weld?  Not one answer as to why they are now using more weld.  

So, I'm one that can continue to say "bleeping piece of crap broke and they won't fix it..."

This splitter is also being sold as a Craftsman model @ Sears.  So add that to the list of this design.  They could have made the customer happy and carried on with still selling these with a piece of mind that if it happened they will take care of it.  At this point I guess it's the short straw for me.  I'll keep my sig as is and it says it all about this splitter.  Customer service is not for the customer.

Sad part is I bought a MTD snow blower, my brother in law bought the same one with me just last winter.  I have a grass edger made by them, an older lawn mower.  Why would I ever buy anything with their name on it now.


----------



## fire_man

There is no question Troy-Bilt has made a cylinder change. It's really just a bandaid but it should help. I just looked at a 27 Ton splitter  at Lowes,  - the trunions had  large square weld patches (about 3/4 inch area)  on the stressed side of the trunions. It's an obvious attempt to correct a weak design with minimal cost to Troy-Bilt. The patches add additional strength to the stressed cylinder area by welding a large patch attaching more of the cylinder to the trunion. My 2 year old cylinder only had an even circular weld without the additional square welded patch.


----------



## bsticks

Mine had the exact same circular bead pattern. I have split 10 cords since my welding job and I have had zero trouble with the machine. I am waiting for the recall too.


----------



## chumby

I usually have buyer's remorse years after a purchase; I feel better that I got a Huskee instead of a TB.  Current prices on the Lowes website reveals the 27 ton TB is about $250 less than the 28 ton Huskee.  The product reviews on the Lowes website have only one person specifically identifying this issue.  One other had a hydraulic leak.  The rest were positive to glowing.


----------



## fire_man

Looks like this problem is showing up more and more. I found the same  Weld problem on this recent link:

http://www.livingoffgrid.org/comparing-woodsplitters/


In case the link is broken here was the post:

 Philip on Sep 14th, 2010 at 10:13 pm

I loved my Troy Bilt 27 ton splitter w/honda 160, until today. It has the metal fenders, towing chains and towing lights. I was splitting wood and the pin that is welded to the cylinder split apart at the weld. The weld was poorly done as pin was being held together to the cylinder by 1/16″, you can tell by the new clean steel when it tore apart. I don’t know how this metal cylinder could not take the pressure of the pump. The hoses or seals should have failed during high pressure not the tough metal parts that 27 tons should handle. Very disappointed with Troy Bilt right now with the way this was built. I contacted Troy Bilt customer service and am awaiting a response as this is out of warranty but this is a part that should never fail this way in many, many years of service not 5. Anyone want to see pics of damaged cylinder? I also have video to put up on youtube but will wait to see if I get a happy response to my email I sent to Troy Bilt.


----------



## fidiro

fire_man said:
			
		

> There is no question Troy-Bilt has made a cylinder change. It's really just a bandaid but it should help. I just looked at a 27 Ton splitter  at Lowes,  - the trunions had  large square weld patches (about 3/4 inch area)  on the stressed side of the trunions. It's an obvious attempt to correct a weak design with minimal cost to Troy-Bilt. The patches add additional strength to the stressed cylinder area by welding a large patch attaching more of the cylinder to the trunion. My 2 year old cylinder only had an even circular weld without the additional square welded patch.



You didn't happen to get a pic of that did you?  Did it look like it's a square piece of steel that was welded onto the cylinder or just extra weld covering the cylinder wall?  I guess if you say it had square weld patches then it has extra steel welded to cylinder.

At least they are attempting to fix more future problems.  Hope this is an even newer design to the cylinder.  Now if only the recal on these older cylinders would start so we can start testing this new cylinder design.


----------



## fire_man

pelletnubi said:
			
		

> fire_man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is no question Troy-Bilt has made a cylinder change. It's really just a bandaid but it should help. I just looked at a 27 Ton splitter  at Lowes,  - the trunions had  large square weld patches (about 3/4 inch area)  on the stressed side of the trunions. It's an obvious attempt to correct a weak design with minimal cost to Troy-Bilt. The patches add additional strength to the stressed cylinder area by welding a large patch attaching more of the cylinder to the trunion. My 2 year old cylinder only had an even circular weld without the additional square welded patch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You didn't happen to get a pic of that did you?  Did it look like it's a square piece of steel that was welded onto the cylinder or just extra weld covering the cylinder wall?  I guess if you say it had square weld patches then it has extra steel welded to cylinder.
> 
> At least they are attempting to fix more future problems.  Hope this is an even newer design to the cylinder.  Now if only the recal on these older cylinders would start so we can start testing this new cylinder design.
Click to expand...


I wish I had gotten a picture. It was not a square piece of steel welded on, but rather a raised  area of weld (square shaped) over the cylinder directly in front of each trunion, exactly where you would expect the splitting stress. Makes you wonder what led to this additional welded area, how many blown cylinders already happened?


----------



## fidiro

fire_man said:
			
		

> pelletnubi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fire_man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is no question Troy-Bilt has made a cylinder change. It's really just a bandaid but it should help. I just looked at a 27 Ton splitter  at Lowes,  - the trunions had  large square weld patches (about 3/4 inch area)  on the stressed side of the trunions. It's an obvious attempt to correct a weak design with minimal cost to Troy-Bilt. The patches add additional strength to the stressed cylinder area by welding a large patch attaching more of the cylinder to the trunion. My 2 year old cylinder only had an even circular weld without the additional square welded patch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You didn't happen to get a pic of that did you?  Did it look like it's a square piece of steel that was welded onto the cylinder or just extra weld covering the cylinder wall?  I guess if you say it had square weld patches then it has extra steel welded to cylinder.
> 
> At least they are attempting to fix more future problems.  Hope this is an even newer design to the cylinder.  Now if only the recal on these older cylinders would start so we can start testing this new cylinder design.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I wish I had gotten a picture. It was not a square piece of steel welded on, but rather a raised  area of weld (square shaped) over the cylinder directly in front of each trunion, exactly where you would expect the splitting stress. Makes you wonder what led to this additional welded area, how many blown cylinders already happened?
Click to expand...


I am no expert on welding but from reading about what weld may do to the cylinder wall I would think that extra weld is keeping the problem the same.  If it was a square piece of steel welded around onto the cylinder with a hole in it so that the pins can fit into and get welded onto the cylinder and that extra piece of steel, this would be an attempt to fix it without using a complete cup over the cylinder.  They may be opening up another can of worms but there is extra weld so who knows.  

They may just be weakening the cylinder wall farther out because of the weld, they should have just created a cup to fit over the cylinder to control this failure better.  And by creating a cup to fit the cylinder they could then use that same cup to recall the ones out there and weld them on these older ones before they explode, it would keep the users of this style splitter safe and at ease and it would save them money over a whole new cylinder making customers happy.


----------



## FORCE FAB

Another thing i didnt like was that when i had the one i had apart to reweld it i noticed that they machine the cylinder BEFORE they weld the trunnion mount on..After its welded the inside is distorted from the heat and the piston runs right into it!


----------



## FireAnt

Here are some photos of mine bought in March 2010.


----------



## Ctyflm

Thank you for all the great information, and you can credit yourself for costing TB another customer.  I am trying to decide between the TB 27 & Huskee 22, but I really wanted that Honda engine, and 5 tons extra splitting force.  These threads have made up my mind, I will be purchasing a 22 T Huskee from TSC.  I would hate to spend well over a grand, only to have problems like you & others have experienced a few years down the road.  The internet & forums are great tools, & maybe those who make these products will realize they will be held accountable, and thier reputation can be seriously damaged.

Country Flame 02 / Husqvarna 455


----------



## richg

Interesting that the Huskee I-beam runs the full length of the splitter and supports the cylinder, whereas the beam is truncated on the Troybilt. If/when I do get around to buying a splitter, it will be a Speeco/Husky.


----------



## FuzzyOne

I happened to be at TSC, Home Depot and Lowes yesterday.  I looked at all the splitters available from these stores and If I was to have to replace my current splitter, first on my list would be the Speeco 22T and second would be the 35T.

I looked at the TB just to see how the cylinder was welded and I don't think the one on display had any of the changes made to it.  I remember last year at this same store, they had a Swisher log splitter that had been special ordered for sale.  They had it marked at $750 with a sticker price of $1,500.  The employess said the person that ordered it didn't like it when it came in.  They took a big loss on it.  I called a friend right from the store and it was gone before he got there.

That Speeco 22T is hard to beat price wise with a 10% TSC coupon.  And the difference between 22T and 28T isn't enough to justify the difference in price of the two units.


----------



## TreePointer

FuzzyOne said:
			
		

> I happened to be at TSC, Home Depot and Lowes yesterday.  I looked at all the splitters available from these stores and If I was to have to replace my current splitter, first on my list would be the Speeco 22T and second would be the 35T.
> 
> I looked at the TB just to see how the cylinder was welded and I don't think the one on display had any of the changes made to it.  I remember last year at this same store, they had a Swisher log splitter that had been special ordered for sale.  They had it marked at $750 with a sticker price of $1,500.  The employess said the person that ordered it didn't like it when it came in.  They took a big loss on it.  I called a friend right from the store and it was gone before he got there.
> 
> That Speeco 22T is hard to beat price wise with a 10% TSC coupon.  And the difference between 22T and 28T isn't enough to justify the difference in price of the two units.




Same here--I'd' also only consider the 22- and 35-ton units in the Huskee line.  I don't like the Huskee 28-ton because it has a much lower cycle time.  There are also a couple improvements to the 35-ton since I got mine 18 months ago.  The big one is that the engine is on the other side of the beam from where the operator stands to use the control valve.  This moves the noise and exhaust of the engine farther away from the operator, and it also keeps the return hose from being routed over the potentially hot cylinder, which it eventually touches.  The other is that they added a handle to the top of the tow arm.

In short, I think the Huskee 22-ton is the best *value* of all splitters available right now.


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## fidiro

Finally set my mind on getting this thing back up, so I started with removing the piston from cylinder.  Hope I can get it welded up tomorrow.  I took a few hours messing with just the cylinder today and this has started as a slow moving project.  I cut a ring from a 6" steel tube and came up with two halves to be welded around the trunion.  

Also, notice what the weld from factory is doing to the inside of the cylinder wall.  It is BLUE from so much heat.  What happens when metal turns this color?  Here are just a few pics of the progress so far.  Hope all this work will pay off in the end and make me a real trunion mount cylinder, otherwise I need to start looking for a different complete splitter.


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## fidiro

Here's a couple more of a close up of the blue cylinder inside wall and the opposite side that I had to grind down some because I couldn't get it flush, which was and still is blue from the factory weld.   I am going to hone it after I weld this cup and hope for the best.


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## fidiro

I'm going to have to do a search to find a seal kit for the piston.  One seal completely ripped off from removing piston from cylinder as it came throught the blown area of the cylinder.  Hope that honing will save this cylinder in the end.


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## pybyr

pelletnubi said:
			
		

> I'm going to have to do a search to find a seal kit for the piston.  One seal completely ripped off from removing piston from cylinder as it came throught the blown area of the cylinder.  Hope that honing will save this cylinder in the end.



Try baumhydraulics.com-- I've found them to be a great source for all sorts of oddball hydraulic parts.  Their web site isn't that easy to find things on, but give them a call, and they're wonderfully helpful.


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## fidiro

pybyr said:
			
		

> pelletnubi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm going to have to do a search to find a seal kit for the piston.  One seal completely ripped off from removing piston from cylinder as it came throught the blown area of the cylinder.  Hope that honing will save this cylinder in the end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Try baumhydraulics.com-- I've found them to be a great source for all sorts of oddball hydraulic parts.  Their web site isn't that easy to find things on, but give them a call, and they're wonderfully helpful.
Click to expand...


thanks pybyr, I'll give them a search to see what I can come up with.  I still have to try and find the specs for this cylinder so that I don't order the wrong seals.


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## thinkxingu

Pellet,
     Wasn't there a link here for a replacement cylinder that would work for only a couple hundred bucks?  I presume that what you're doing is less expensive, but is the aforementioned cylinder worth looking at as an option for people?

S


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## fidiro

thinkxingu said:
			
		

> Pellet,
> Wasn't there a link here for a replacement cylinder that would work for only a couple hundred bucks?  I presume that what you're doing is less expensive, but is the aforementioned cylinder worth looking at as an option for people?
> 
> S



There is a link for one that is about 300 shipped but I will have the same questionable cylinder.  I didn't want to spend endless amount of time on welding this one but if it all comes together right I will have a better built trunion without worrying if it will blow on me again.  Worst case scenario I will have to order that one and just have to be more alert of the same possible outcome.

Anyone know if all 4 1/2" bore cylinders use the same seal kits?


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## thinkxingu

I also saw one with a plate on top of the cylinder and 4 threaded rods to hold it in place--is there a way to make one of those work instead of the trunion mount?

S


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## fidiro

I'm hoping that after all this work I'm doing it will not leak at least.  Here are more pics of my progress.  I still have to sand down to smooth out the side that ripped out.  Tomorrow I'm taking a ride to a local hydraulic place and hope they can match me the seals that broke during removal.


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## DanCorcoran

When you get it up and running, you'll need to send Troy-Bilt a note, explaining how to build a splitter...


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## fidiro

Here's the pic after I welded up the blown pin back on and then I grinded it to reweld it again before I added the two halves of pipe.  Took me a long a$$ time constantly adjusting with a grinder to fit over the new weld but finally got it to fit and welded it up.  I have very little welding experience, but I did stay at a holiday inn so my hobart ironman 250 taught me how to weld this up.


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## fidiro

DanCorcoran said:
			
		

> When you get it up and running, you'll need to send Troy-Bilt a note, explaining how to build a splitter...



I wouldn't be surprised that they are on here taking notes on how to build their next trunion mount splitter.  I have a patent on this one so no copying.


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## fidiro

This is the update to my cylinder and splitter.  One pic shows the honing process after I first welded cylinder a few weeks ago and the rest of the pics here show the creation of thicker cly pins.  After I first welded up cylinder I didn't like seeing the original pins being so thin so I decided to weld again.  I couldn't find black paint and red was at hand.


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## fidiro

Here I have the cylinder mounted.  I had to grind down the mounts to get the thicker cly pins to fit but I am more at ease knowing there is extra meat now.  I have drained the 10w hydro that was still in great shape.  I refilled with Dexron III to try it out and so far no leaks after a few back and forth runs.  I will run this splitter for a few hours on the hardest wood I have right now, which is oak, and see if it will hold up.  If it stays together my next project is to add the slip on 4 way, just need to find pics of a few that have been homemade by members.  I wish I would have known of this weld problem earlier and it would have saved me hours of extra labor(and the unforgetable oil bath/spill), I would have only welded up the cylinder wall like I did.  I spent about 3 hours trying to straighten out the cylinder mounts on the splitter that were twisted up.


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## fire_man

Nice looking work, Pelletnubi. Now you have a much stronger looking cylinder. This thread makes me want to sell mine and get an Iron & Oak splitter. I don't have your welding skills or patience.


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## fidiro

Thanks FireMan, if you were closer I would be more than happy to assist in making yours look like this.  I have very little welding experience.  I would say I have welded a total of about 3-4 hrs on my Ironman 250, mostly using the spoolmate welding aluminum.  If a pro welder looks at my job will see it as a job done, BUT.  It is what it is.  I'm going to keep an eye on it and see if I have to reinforce the mounts on the splitter itself because they warped and I bent them back possible creating weak points.  I'll wait and see.  If you were able to do the same to just the cylinder I would consider this to be a big improvement to the splitter design.


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## FireAnt

Looks real good. Good luck with it. I am just keeping my fingers crossed with mine........


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## bsticks

Wow, awesome job I keep my fingers crossed too after my re-weld. I run the machine about an hour a week now just to keep an eye on it. 

Bsticks


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## Kenster

This thread went cold six months ago.  Any follow ups would be great.  Pettetnubi, how'd your fix hold up?
You other guys with failures, what's the latest word from MTD?


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## fidiro

Kenster said:
			
		

> This thread went cold six months ago.  Any follow ups would be great.  Pettetnubi, how'd your fix hold up?
> You other guys with failures, what's the latest word from MTD?



I haven't worked it long enough to say I'm in the safe zone as I only split about half cord since the repair.  I've been a little lazy lately about spitting wood and should really get a move on it as I only have about 1 cord split and I need about 3-4 to get through next winter.  The only thing I've got going for me in seasoning is the logs were cut about 6 months ago and have about 20 cords or better worth to split.

So far I have no leaks.  I have run the piston full length back and forth most of the splitting of that 1/2 cord and it is doing it's job.  The clys have worked themselves loose in the mounts now as well, they fit in really tight when I first welded up the thicker clys.  I don't see a problem occuring now from the cylinder itself but need to watch the actual mounts that twisted up, to make sure they don't twist themselves again.  I just need some time working the splitter to see if I can trust this pile of metal again one day

I just have to remember I still have Mercon III in the hydro tank right now that needs to be changed back to 10w Hydraulic along with a new hydro filter before I start.


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## Kenster

Thanks, Pelletnubi.   Are you "Avalanche" on the Arborist site?


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## fidiro

No not avalanche.  Do you or anyone you know have one of these splitters?  They could be a very good splitter for the money if the weak points were taken care of, very easy to maneuver by hand and take up little space.  I wonder if this design has changed any in the trunion area in the last 6 months.


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## Kenster

I found a virtually brand new 27 ton Cub Cadet.  Not a scratch or scuff anywhere on the entire thing.  Tires don't look like they've ever touched pavement.
Nearby Pawn Shop.  They say it's three months into default on a pawn.  They had not listed it for sale yet but expected to sometime soon.  The manager thought the tag price was going to be $900.  I hope to get it for around $700.   But I started reading about the blowouts like you had.   Kinda has me worried.  I only burn about a cord and a half a year so won't be working it too much.  Just Post oak and Water Oak.  I don't really need 27 tons but for that price, why not?

Of course, if I can get a like new Splitter that retails for $1500 to $1600, for $700 I may just turn around and sell it for $1000 or so and buy a Huskee 22T.


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## fidiro

There will be times you will wish you had more then 27 tons of force on a splitter but there are people out there splitting with 22 ton machines that get the job done.  A machine rated for 27 tons should never fail like this, I've said it before and say it again, O-rings or rubber hoses should be failing not the tough metal parts like the cylinder that take all the rated force.

If you plan on getting it and keeping it, just keep your eye on the ram making sure it's moving along into the wood.  If any piece of wood doesn't split right away back off immediately as the trunion may not, and in my case did not, withstand the rated 27 tons.  Till this day I can't believe the cylinder was a weak point of this splitter.  At least I haven't had to replace any rubber hoses on mine, they may be superman rated, watch me have to replace one as soon as I start splitting again.

I forgot to mention that during that test trial were I split about 1/2 cord I had a very knotty piece of sycamore that was so tough to split that the engine almost shut down on me from all the pressure I let it build up to.  I wanted to test it on a tough piece of wood and wound up not splitting it and just cut it with saw,  that test was to make sure I had no leaks on the welds and so it didn't leak anywhere.


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## Gooserider

Note that if the components are properly matched and set up, and the engine is running at full throttle or close to it, the pressure relief valve should open before the engine quite stalls, though it will certainly load down...  Running at less than full throttle the engine may well stall before the pressure relief opens, and your cycle times will be longer.

I really doubt that more than about 20 tons is all that needed, and probably 95% of most wood could be split with 10 tons...  What I've found with my 30 ton HF splitter is that if I got more than about 1,000psi on my gage, the resulting splits were going to look like pretzels and / or toothpicks because the wood will tear around the knots rather than splitting...  

Before I got hurt, I also spent a lot of time splitting stuff with a friend as part of his firewood business - out of the hundreds of cords that I split with an old 20 ton MTD, I'd say that I had less than a dozen rounds that I couldn't get through, though some took multiple hits (maybe one or two of those difficult rounds per cord)

I do agree that cylinders shouldn't fail the way these have, but that's a separate story...

Gooserider


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## bsticks

My weld repair is still holding the line. I have split 6 cord of wood through it since my repair. All working fine. MTD needs to recall the splitter and at the very least beef up the steel on the cylinder.

bsticks


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