# How Your Harman Works -what your manual doesn't tell you..



## lbcynya

Thanks Mod for correcting the title!

Now, let's have some fun and stay warm!

*How your stove works* - The facts are pretty straightforward, but how you get people to properly interpret the facts is the hard part. It's your toy, run it the way you want as long as you understand what's going on behind the scenes! Everything noted below is based on me seeing what the stove is doing via the Harman diagnostic tool during the various operation methods. I get to see feed rates, max feed rates, current ESP temps, ESP set temps, room sensor temperatures, room sensor target temperatures, knob positions, switch positions, etc.

_Here are the facts:_

*Stove temp* - 100% driven the the ESP (temperature probe in stove exhaust flow). Temp dial corresponds to a fixed ESP temperature. For simplicity, let's assume a setting of 3 = 300 degrees ESP temp. The stove will ramp feed up/down to always be as close to 300 degrees as possible. In stove temp the stove doesn't care what the room temp is, only the ESP temp. The room might be 60 or 90 degrees doesn't matter, all it cares about is maintaining an ESP temp of 300.The stove will not shut off in stove temp regardless of whether the igniter switch is set to auto or manual. Stove temp, switch to manual - I call this fireplace mode. Distribution fan will not turn on unless the temp knob is set to 5 or higher. This is designed to give a nice fire, but not a ton of heat in the room. Most goes up the chimney. Stove temp, switch to auto - distribution fan operates normally to push heat into the room, regardless of stove or room temperature. There is a caveat to this, if you have your room temp set to 1 (very low) then the distribution blower might shut off because the ESP temperature is below the lowest setting allowed for the distribution blower to run.

*Room Temp* - The stove is 100% driven by the room temp sensor. The stove will automatically adjust feed and ESP temp to achieve the room temp set point. Once the set point is reached, the stove will slowly throttle up/down to maintain temperature. If it's 20 degrees outside, your heat load is high and the stove will feed more pellets to get the ESP temp hot enough to maintain room temperature set point. If it's 60 degrees outside, the stove will feed as little as possible and keep as low an ESP temp as possible to maintain room temperature. Igniter switch to manual, stove will go into maintenance burn in between calls for heat - prevents igniter cycling, might use a few more pellets in this mode...maybe... Igniter switch to auto, stove will initiate the shut down process in between calls for heat - igniter could cycle several times per day, depends on set point and heat load. If there is a call for heat during the shutdown process, the stove will start feeding pellets provided that the ESP temperature didn't go below the low limit. So, on really cold days, the stove might not shut off, even if it's on auto.

The key to getting room temp to work is placement or "calibration" of the room temp sensor. This is a tricky subject due to the sheer number of variables that can contribute to success or lack there of. Ideally, you want the tip of the probe in an area that is not subject to drafts, direct sun or areas that could lead to heat soak from the stove or areas that make it tough to calibrate like basement concrete floors. Ideally, you want the probe on an inside wall (no drafts), away from concrete and fairly far from the stove, even if you need to extend the wire. If the probe is where you are, then the stove can work to keep an even temp that works for you. If your set on having the dial temp correspond with the room temp, you will need to experiment for a while until you find the most reliable place for the probe to stay.

Alternatively, you can place the probe in a "stable" location and simply adjust the temp knob to achieve the most comfortable room temperature. Maybe 78 on the temp knob gives you a steady 72 degrees, no worries, just keep in mind that the probe reads 6 degrees high and do the simple math if you feel like adjusting the temp.

Either way, you need to be smarter than the probe, since it does nothing more or less than reading the temp where it resides. 

 If either option above doesn't suit your needs, you can ditch the way Harman wants you to run the stove and install a simple thermostat to control the room temperature. See my *signature* for details on the Skytach model or see post #8 below or the traditional Harman recommendation.

And more...

*Feed Rates* - Feed rate is controlled by the stove ESP. The stove will select a feed rate based on the actual temperature and target call for heat. The larger the temperature delta (actual room temp vs. target room temp), the greater the feed rate will be. 10 degrees would be a large delta and the stove would feed to reach max ESP temp of about 500 degrees depending on stove model. A 2 degree delta might only result in a feed rate of 20 seconds per minute even though the feed rate max dial is set to 4 (or 40 seconds per minute). The stove can vary the feed rate between 2.5 seconds per minute and the max feed rate you set. A feed rate of 6 would represent continuous feeding if the ESP wasn't seeing sufficient temperatures to satisfy the call for heat.When up to temp the stove will regulate itself form 2.5 seconds per minute of feed up to the limit you set.

Feed rates can lead to incomplete combustion comes in 2 forms:

1. Pellets spilling over the edge of the burn pot before they are reduced to ash.
2. Smoke.

Relative to #1 - when you run the stove wide open (stove temp setting at 7), the burning pellets should come no closer than 1 inch from the edge of the burn pot. You should have burning pellets and about 1" of ash before the edge. If pellets are bulging and close to the edge, you might not turn them to ash before spilling over the edge, wasting energy. If the burn line is too close, dial the feed rate back a bit, may by 1/2 of a number (i.e. 3.5 to 3).  The stove doesn't run wide open once everything is up to temp, so this is only for scenarios where, for instance, the room is 65 and you want it 75 degrees or you turn the temp dial all the way clockwise (just don't walk away for too long or you'll bake yourself...).

Relative to #2 - smoke is also a sign of incomplete combustion, meaning that there is more fuel than air supplied by the combustion blower. This too should be evaluated when the stove is running WIDE OPEN. At night with a flashlight, you'll always see smoke. During the day, smoke is rated based on opacity or how easily you can see through it. Startup might be 50% opacity or fairly heavy smoke. If you are 10% or less (barely visible), that's reasonable and you aren't really wasting anything. If you have to struggle to see it, you're probably good. If you can easily see smoke and your flame is HUGE, try dialing back feed rate a bit to bring the air/fuel mix back into a more efficient range by dialing it back by 1/2 of a number (ie 3.5 to 3). In most cases, you don't want to be below 3 or much above 4. You'll also want to recalibrate after changing brands of pellets since the blend and size of pellet will cause it to burn/feed differently.

Setting your feed rate too low doesn't save pellets and stove performance will suffer since your inhibiting the ESP from reaching target temps. Setting your feed rate too low is like putting a brick underneath the gas pedal of your car.

Don't be tempted to set your feed rate too low.

So there's the facts, interpret away...

*Cleaning tip* - During your periodic cleaning, turn the knob to "test" while you clean the firebox to evacuate the ash out the chimney vs. into your room.


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## lbcynya

For the time being, I'll use post #2 to link to some topics/ideas/etc. that can be useful or fun if your snowed in...

Go to the link below if you are interested in testing the heat output of various pellets. Since Harman stoves have an ESP (temperature sensor in the exhaust) you have to cheat a little to override the ESP in order to let the pellets determine the heat output. Don't get me wrong, the ESP is, in a lot of ways, what makes a Harman a Harman, so this is just to have fun if you want to jump on the pellet testing craze.

*https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...to-test-different-pellets.81021/#post-1035165*

Auto or Manual???? - go to the link below for a thread that touches on this option.

*https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/manual-or-auto.82295/#post-1052608*


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## tsmith

Thanks, very informative.


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## GrahamInVa

Wow! Thanks! I just got done installing a P61A and I was a bit confused about the whole "Room" and "Stove" temp. You cleared it all up! And did a much better job than the manual!

Thanks!


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## Chain

Quick question...Is it okay to start the stove with auto igniter in Room Temp., allow the stove to cycle up and burn until the distribution blower comes on, burns for a bit (say 10-15 minutes) then turn the igniter to manual so as to not cycle the igniter throughout the day?  In other words avoiding a manual start with gel, but then flicking to manual simply to avoid cycling the igniter all day?  Make sense?


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## Melissa220

Chain said:


> Quick question...Is it okay to start the stove with auto igniter in Room Temp., allow the stove to cycle up and burn until the distribution blower comes on, burns for a bit (say 10-15 minutes) then turn the igniter to manual so as to not cycle the igniter throughout the day? In other words avoiding a manual start with gel, but then flicking to manual simply to avoid cycling the igniter all day? Make sense?


I have been doing that each time I have used the stove in the last couple weeks. You will find that your room temp may be a bit higher than you have the temp set on the stove, but you can compensate for that by reducing the temp on your stove I find if I set for 65 room temp, start on auto and switch to manual, that my room temp is about 3 to 5 degrees higher! And you don't have to wait 10 -15 minutes t switch to manual. You can do this as soon as you have ignition and the igniter turns off.


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## lbcynya

> Quick question...Is it okay to start the stove with auto igniter in Room Temp., allow the stove to cycle up and burn until the distribution blower comes on, burns for a bit (say 10-15 minutes) then turn the igniter to manual so as to not cycle the igniter throughout the day? In other words avoiding a manual start with gel, but then flicking to manual simply to avoid cycling the igniter all day? Make sense?



It's even easier than that, just quickly flip the switch from manual to auto and back to manual and you're done.  Just verify your igniter light is on and walk away.  Simple.


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## Melissa220

lbcynya said:


> It's even easier than that, just quickly flip the switch from manual to auto and back to manual and you're done. Just verify your igniter light is on and walk away. Simple.


So switching to auto ignite, even momentarily, starts the ignited? Nice. Thank you ibcynya.


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## TheMightyMoe

Just a re-post that has been referred to many time...

*All Harman pellet units can utilize a setback thermostat. The thermostat must be:*

1. Millivolt compatible
2. Have gold contacts
3. be low voltage
4. be low current


Harman reccommends the following Honeywell units for this use:

RTH230B
RTH6300B


If there is a jumper between Rh and Rc, it must be removed from the terminal block of the thermostat. The thermostat must be connected in series with the room sensing probe using the Rh and W terminals of the thermostat. Except with the P38, which has no room sensing probe, the set-back thermostat MUST be used in conjunction with the room sensing probe.

there are two modes of operation as well:

Occupied Mode: (someones home)
Set the thermostat to its max temp setting. The stove room-sensing probe will control room temperature, so set the desired room temp on the stoves temp dial.

Unoccupied Mode: (noones home)
Program the thermostat to the desired set-back temp. When the thermostat opens (is satisfied) the stove will go into a 4-blink status. If the stove is a auto-ignite model and the auto/manual switch is in auto, the stove will shut down. When the thermostat closes (calls for heat) the 4-blink status will reset and the stove will ignite.
If the stove is a manual ignition model, or an auto-igniting unit with the selector switch set to manual, the stove will go into the 4-blink status when the thermostat opens (is satisfied) and the stove will go to a minimum burn and stay there until the thermostat closes (calls for heat). When the thermostat closes, the 4 blink status will reset automatically.

Consult your owners' manual for a description of the 4-blink status. This error occurs when the contril board senses the room sensing probe isnt connected or has failed. This happens with the thermostat in series, since when the thermostat opens (is satisfied), there is a loss of continuity in the room-sensing circuit. The 4 blink status automatically resets when the board recognizes the room-sensing probe has been reconnected (ie: when the thermostat closes and calls for heat).


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## MCPO

Great post! I find the Harman ESP to be reasonably accurate ,dependable, and quick to respond. And Harman controls are so easy to use. (at least in the P-38)


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## AndrewChurchill

In reference to setting the feed rate.  You should place a large heating load on the pellet stove/furnace/boiler and set the feed rate to 6 initially.

Then you watch the burn pot.  If unburned pellets are dumping into the ash pan then back off the feed rate to 5 1/2 and watch again.

Repeat this procedure dropping the feed rate in 1/2 unit increments until you have ash appearing about 1" from the edge of the burn pot.  

If you change pellets you may have to adjust the feed rate again.

Setting the feed rate in this manner allows the control board to satisfy the heating demand in the most efficient manner.


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## CTBossfan

Thanks for posting I've read a lot on these boards but I don't think I read about your cleaning tip before thanks for all the info.

Is there any heat ouput advantage to running the blower on high or is it just better distribution of heat? I guess my question is would there be any increase in heat output with blower on high or does it have no effect?


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## Chain

lbcynya said:


> It's even easier than that, just quickly flip the switch from manual to auto and back to manual and you're done. Just verify your igniter light is on and walk away. Simple.


 
Nice!  Thanks for the very helpful info and for replying to my question.  Since this will be my first season with the Harman P61A, I'm still trying to decide what mode I'll run it in when I'm at work during the day.  Based on what you're telling me, I think Room Temp. mode with Manual igniter will work best.  Feed rate at 4 and the temp. set at about 65....Should keep my 1800 sq. ft. very open floor plan ranch nice and toasty.  Thanks again.


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## Cincinnati Kid

lbcynya said:


> Thanks Mod for correcting the title!
> 
> Now, let's have some fun and stay warm!
> 
> *How your stove works* - The facts are pretty straightforward, but how you get people to properly interpret the facts is the hard part. It's your toy, run it the way you want as long as you understand what's going on behind the scenes! Everything noted below is based on me seeing what the stove is doing via the Harman diagnostic tool during the various operation methods. I get to see feed rates, max feed rates, current ESP temps, ESP set temps, room sensor temperatures, room sensor target temperatures, knob positions, switch positions, etc.
> 
> _Here are the facts:_
> 
> *Stove temp* - 100% driven the the ESP (temperature probe in stove exhaust flow). Temp dial corresponds to a fixed ESP temperature. For simplicity, let's assume a setting of 3 = 300 degrees ESP temp. The stove will ramp feed up/down to always be as close to 300 degrees as possible. In stove temp the stove doesn't care what the room temp is, only the ESP temp. The room might be 60 or 90 degrees doesn't matter, all it cares about is maintaining an ESP temp of 300.The stove will not shut off in stove temp regardless of whether the igniter switch is set to auto or manual. Stove temp, switch to manual - I call this fireplace mode. Distribution fan will not turn on unless the temp knob is set to 5 or higher. This is designed to give a nice fire, but not a ton of heat in the room. Most goes up the chimney. Stove temp, switch to auto - distribution fan operates normally to push heat into the room, regardless of stove or room temperature. There is a caveat to this, if you have your room temp set to 1 (very low) then the distribution blower might shut off because the ESP temperature is below the lowest setting allowed for the distribution blower to run.
> 
> *Room Temp* - The stove is 100% driven by the room temp sensor. The stove will automatically adjust feed and ESP temp to achieve the room temp set point. Once the set point is reached, the stove will slowly throttle up/down to maintain temperature. If it's 20 degrees outside, your heat load is high and the stove will feed more pellets to get the ESP temp hot enough to maintain room temperature set point. If it's 60 degrees outside, the stove will feed as little as possible and keep as low an ESP temp as possible to maintain room temperature. Igniter switch to manual, stove will go into maintenance burn in between calls for heat - prevents igniter cycling, might use a few more pellets in this mode...maybe... Igniter switch to auto, stove will initiate the shut down process in between calls for heat - igniter could cycle several times per day, depends on set point and heat load. If there is a call for heat during the shutdown process, the stove will start feeding pellets provided that the ESP temperature didn't go below the low limit. So, on really cold days, the stove might not shut off, even if it's on auto.
> 
> The key to getting room temp to work is placement or "calibration" of the room temp sensor. This is a tricky subject due to the sheer number of variables that can contribute to success or lack there of. Ideally, you want the tip of the probe in an area that is not subject to drafts, direct sun or areas that could lead to heat soak from the stove or areas that make it tough to calibrate like basement concrete floors. Ideally, you want the probe on an inside wall (no drafts), away from concrete and fairly far from the stove, even if you need to extend the wire. If the probe is where you are, then the stove can work to keep an even temp that works for you. If your set on having the dial temp correspond with the room temp, you will need to experiment for a while until you find the most reliable place for the probe to stay.
> 
> Alternatively, you can place the probe in a "stable" location and simply adjust the temp knob to achieve the most comfortable room temperature. Maybe 78 on the temp knob gives you a steady 72 degrees, no worries, just keep in mind that the probe reads 6 degrees high and do the simple math if you feel like adjusting the temp.
> 
> Either way, you need to be smarter than the probe, since it does nothing more or less than reading the temp where it resides.
> 
> If either option above doesn't suit your needs, you can ditch the way Harman wants you to run the stove and install a simple thermostat to control the room temperature. See my *signature* for details on the Skytach model or see post #8 below or the traditional Harman recommendation.
> 
> And more...
> 
> *Feed Rates* - Feed rate is controlled by the stove ESP. The stove will select a feed rate based on the actual temperature and target call for heat. The larger the temperature delta (actual room temp vs. target room temp), the greater the feed rate will be. 10 degrees would be a large delta and the stove would feed to reach max ESP temp of about 500 degrees depending on stove model. A 2 degree delta might only result in a feed rate of 20 seconds per minute even though the feed rate max dial is set to 4 (or 40 seconds per minute). The stove can vary the feed rate between 2.5 seconds per minute and the max feed rate you set. A feed rate of 6 would represent continuous feeding if the ESP wasn't seeing sufficient temperatures to satisfy the call for heat.When up to temp the stove will regulate itself form 2.5 seconds per minute of feed up to the limit you set.
> 
> Feed rates can lead to incomplete combustion comes in 2 forms:
> 
> 1. Pellets spilling over the edge of the burn pot before they are reduced to ash.
> 2. Smoke.
> 
> Relative to #1 - when you run the stove wide open (stove temp setting at 7), the burning pellets should come no closer than 1 inch from the edge of the burn pot. You should have burning pellets and about 1" of ash before the edge. If pellets are bulging and close to the edge, you might not turn them to ash before spilling over the edge, wasting energy. If the burn line is too close, dial the feed rate back a bit, may by 1/2 of a number (i.e. 3.5 to 3). The stove doesn't run wide open once everything is up to temp, so this is only for scenarios where, for instance, the room is 65 and you want it 75 degrees or you turn the temp dial all the way clockwise (just don't walk away for too long or you'll bake yourself...).
> 
> Relative to #2 - smoke is also a sign of incomplete combustion, meaning that there is more fuel than air supplied by the combustion blower. This too should be evaluated when the stove is running WIDE OPEN. At night with a flashlight, you'll always see smoke. During the day, smoke is rated based on opacity or how easily you can see through it. Startup might be 50% opacity or fairly heavy smoke. If you are 10% or less (barely visible), that's reasonable and you aren't really wasting anything. If you have to struggle to see it, you're probably good. If you can easily see smoke and your flame is HUGE, try dialing back feed rate a bit to bring the air/fuel mix back into a more efficient range by dialing it back by 1/2 of a number (ie 3.5 to 3). In most cases, you don't want to be below 3 or much above 4. You'll also want to recalibrate after changing brands of pellets since the blend and size of pellet will cause it to burn/feed differently.
> 
> Setting your feed rate too low doesn't save pellets and stove performance will suffer since your inhibiting the ESP from reaching target temps. Setting your feed rate too low is like putting a brick underneath the gas pedal of your car.
> 
> Don't be tempted to set your feed rate too low.
> 
> So there's the facts, interpret away...
> 
> *Cleaning tip* - During your periodic cleaning, turn the knob to "test" while you clean the firebox to evacuate the ash out the chimney vs. into your room.


 
I believe when adusting Feed Rates, they only apply when in Stove Mode.  When operating in Room Temp, the Feed Rate is done automatically and adjusting the Feed Rate has no impact.


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## TheMightyMoe

The feed rate will affect the maximum possible feed rate in room temp mode. The stove can't tell if burning pellets are falling off the burn pot.


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## afranch

In my experience where one wants the feedrate can depend on how one is using the stove and the prevailing conditions of the stove's location. Maybe my thinking is flawed but empirically I have accomplished my goals with a lower than recommended feedrate that appears to save pellets. lbcynya's post is giving me some ideas however, about other ways I can try to operate the stove that might be more efficient:

The Harmon Accentra is in finished basement & is used to:

(i) heat  the basement on demand when people are there

(ii) heat stone floor above that gets cold on the feet (yes convective heat does not directly/efficiently heat stone, however basement has very low ceiling & we find warm air in the basement will of course over time bring the floor system above into thermal equilibrium, so it works). We also crank a small woodstove on the main floor for speedier floor/masonry heat storage (this is an old farmhouse so when it's very cold this helps a lot).

(iii) augment heat pump above to keep emergency strip heat from ever coming on. This is the first winter we will have the heatpump....we had an old "Apollo" system that used an ancient propane tankless water heater in conjunction with an old air handler/old condenser that finally died. We plan to use the new heatpump primarily for AC in summer, but also to even out heat in cold seasons. Also we plan ultimately to rent the house and wanted something that would work well for renters. 

What I found my first season is I was going through pellets at an alarming rate when I calibrated the feedrate according to the recommended 1" methodology. Even when I turned the temperature setting down it still seemed to use a lot of pellets with the 1" rule. Fearing running out of pellets I began setting the feed rate low (except at peak times of need)...typ rate setting of 2. I found that for my situation it gave me the desired effect during off peak heating times and used less pellets.

After reading lbcynya's post I can see some of the waste I had probably comes because I have the probe about 36" high up a table leg in a drafty basement where the air stratifies. Since a lot of the heat assistance I want is on the floors above it may be I'd be better off either raising the probe on the wall or using stove temp for assitance only then switch to room temp for when the basement is occupied. Perhaps then I could use the recommended feedrate all the time and get better overall efficiency for my needs. I'm going to think more about this and will also check and see if anyone has any ideas to add. Thanks for the info Ibcynaya!


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## abrucerd

lbcynya said:


> *Cleaning tip* - During your periodic cleaning, turn the knob to "test" while you clean the firebox to evacuate the ash out the chimney vs. into your room.


 
I can't believe I never thought of this or saw someone else mention this technique.  Great tip!

Another great & informative post.  Thanks Ibcynya!


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## lbcynya

afranch said:


> In my experience where one wants the feedrate can depend on how one is using the stove and the prevailing conditions of the stove's location. Maybe my thinking is flawed but empirically I have accomplished my goals with a lower than recommended feedrate that appears to save pellets. lbcynya's post is giving me some ideas however, about other ways I can try to operate the stove that might be more efficient:
> 
> The Harmon Accentra is in finished basement & is used to:
> 
> (i) heat the basement on demand when people are there
> 
> (ii) heat stone floor above that gets cold on the feet (yes convective heat does not directly/efficiently heat stone, however basement has very low ceiling & we find warm air in the basement will of course over time bring the floor system above into thermal equilibrium, so it works). We also crank a small woodstove on the main floor for speedier floor/masonry heat storage (this is an old farmhouse so when it's very cold this helps a lot).
> 
> (iii) augment heat pump above to keep emergency strip heat from ever coming on. This is the first winter we will have the heatpump....we had an old "Apollo" system that used an ancient propane tankless water heater in conjunction with an old air handler/old condenser that finally died. We plan to use the new heatpump primarily for AC in summer, but also to even out heat in cold seasons. Also we plan ultimately to rent the house and wanted something that would work well for renters.
> 
> What I found my first season is I was going through pellets at an alarming rate when I calibrated the feedrate according to the recommended 1" methodology. Even when I turned the temperature setting down it still seemed to use a lot of pellets with the 1" rule. Fearing running out of pellets I began setting the feed rate low (except at peak times of need)...typ rate setting of 2. I found that for my situation it gave me the desired effect during off peak heating times and used less pellets.
> 
> After reading lbcynya's post I can see some of the waste I had probably comes because I have the probe about 36" high up a table leg in a drafty basement where the air stratifies. Since a lot of the heat assistance I want is on the floors above it may be I'd be better off either raising the probe on the wall or using stove temp for assitance only then switch to room temp for when the basement is occupied. Perhaps then I could use the recommended feedrate all the time and get better overall efficiency for my needs. I'm going to think more about this and will also check and see if anyone has any ideas to add. Thanks for the info Ibcynaya!


 
Nothing flawed with your logic, but lower feed rates will produce less heat.  All the unique variables you (we) have will always make the perfect method a moving target.  You might have bled the extra heat into another space or deeper into the structure which is hard to quantify, but it appeared as waste to you nonetheless.  1" method will insure you get the MOST heat out of your stove, but that doesn't mean it burns most efficiently.  I would rather tune my stove by looking at the exhaust and turn the feed rate down until the opacity of the exhaust is almost zero (and no pellets are spilling...of course).  While I can do this, others may have their exhaust exit above their roof line making this type of tuning almost impossible.  In that case, the 1" method is safe and consistent.  If you want to be conservative, you can get it steadily at 1" then dial back by 1/2 increment and call it good. 

For the sake of simplicity, if your heat loss is 20k BTU and you burn net 20k BTU worth of pellets (after stove efficiency loss)  theoretically the room temperature will not rise or fall, regardless of the feed rate setting.  It will also depend on how long the stove has been running and how much the heat loss varies (day vs. night).  Lower feed rates will offer smoother transitions between call for heat and no call for heat, but too low could cause you to lose temperature during a cold snap at night. With all that said, if the spaces you want are comfortable and your stove can produce the heat you need during extreme cold, then your settings may be the most correct for your situation.  That's why my explanation can only focus on the facts of the stove not the facts of your situation since they are unknown and extensive.


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## Simon L.

Hello, and thanks for the tips. Very helpful.

 I have a problem with my Harman Advance-2 and I ask you some help :

My distribution blower has stopped tu run last week (end of his life).  (By the way, sorry for my english…)

I’ve put a brand new one and a new problem’s begun :

The new distribution blower run at max speed all the time. It never stops  And the speed doesn’t vary. I must to disconnect the stove from the electrical source to stop it….

What happen ? I’ve connected  the new blower properly (it’s very simple).

So, If you know what is that, it will help me.

Thanks
Simon


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## afranch

Terrific information and thanks for your kindness in sharing Ibcynya!


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## lbcynya

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...cret-so-guard-this-info-with-your-life.94568/

Link to Harman Part Numbers - Good for reference.


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## Brian F

My Harman Accentra recently quit working in room temp but work normal in stove temp. When I switch to room temp the status light goes out. I do have a short line probe plugged into the back of the stove and it used to work without issues. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks


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## gambler13

I was also told by my dealer and service technicians that you should run the stove in stove temp mode periodically to help burn off any creosote residue that could build up on the firebox walls. I do this once  or twice a month for about an hour then switch back to room temp on my P43.


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## kinsmanstoves

The distribution fan does run in stove temp, not just over temp 5.

Eric


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## lbcynya

kinsmanstoves said:


> The distribution fan does run in stove temp, not just over temp 5.
> 
> Eric


 
Yes, when in Auto mode only...

The joy/pain of this being a sticky is the fact that I can no longer edit the post to update it and keep it fresh as new issues arise. Hmmm...I thought stove temp manual/auto was already in there... Maybe the Mod's can help me out with this and unlock it...

That being said, Stove Temp has 2 unique working modes - Auto and Manual via igniter switch selection. Stove temp AUTO will allow the distribution fan to run at most temperatures selected. Stove temp MANUAL will turn off the fan unless the temp knob is 5 or HIGHER to prevent the stove from overheating I would presume. Harman calls this "Fireplace mode" or something like that, to have a large flame without overheating the room. Either case, when in stove temp it will not shut down unless you turn off or it runs out of pellets.


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## kinsmanstoves

lbcynya said:


> Yes, when in Auto mode only...
> 
> The joy/pain of this being a sticky is the fact that I can no longer edit the post to update it and keep it fresh as new issues arise. Hmmm...I thought stove temp manual/auto was already in there... Maybe the Mod's can help me out with this and unlock it...
> 
> That being said, Stove Temp has 2 unique working modes - Auto and Manual via igniter switch selection. Stove temp AUTO will allow the distribution fan to run at most temperatures selected. Stove temp MANUAL will turn off the fan unless the temp knob is 5 or HIGHER to prevent the stove from overheating I would presume. Harman calls this "Fireplace mode" or something like that, to have a large flame without overheating the room. Either case, when in stove temp it will not shut down unless you turn off or it runs out of pellets.


 

Much better.

Eric


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## Scott T.

kinsmanstoves said:


> Much better.
> 
> Eric


I've had my Harman XXV since beginning of January 2013 & still struggle to get the stove to work efficiently. I clean the glass & within 15 to 20 minutes of starting a fire on auto my glass is sooted up. After a hour or two it has about a 1/3 of the glass sooted up. I try to go by the 1" ash rule but with same results. I smell the stove outside sometimes & it has a different smell than my other stove ( Cumberland 3700). My best fires are at 2 1/2 of the feedrate & 70 on room temp auto. Any suggestions on what I'm doing wrong? If I run on 4 like manual says I get hot coals being pushed into the ashpan.


----------



## Justin M

There is something wrong.  I don't think it's the way that you are running it?  What kind of pellets, and have you tried different ones?  Are all of the holes in the burn pot clear?  Have you done a dollar bill test on the door seal?  Check for blockage in the exhaust path/venting?


----------



## Scott T.

Justin M said:


> There is something wrong. I don't think it's the way that you are running it? What kind of pellets, and have you tried different ones? Are all of the holes in the burn pot clear? Have you done a dollar bill test on the door seal? Check for blockage in the exhaust path/venting?


 I've tried 3 different type of pellets with the same results. The stove is only 2 weeks old but I did clean the firepot holes a few days ago & they were all clean. Haven't did the dollar bill between the door yet as we've been running it but the door is hard to shut  (Very tight) so I don't think the door gasket is bad yet. Appreciate the suggestions!


----------



## Trefix

Hello.

Accentra FS, my settings :

- feed rate 3 / temp rate 3-3/4 (20°C ~ 68°F) / maximum distribution fan,
- coming home after a week > 'stove temp + auto' during 4 hours for a quick and efficient heating,
- snowy weather > 'room temp + auto' is the best mode, but gives a +/- 2.5°F room temp. (66 to 71°),
- cold weather (night & day < 32°F) > 'room temp + manual' gives the best heating with few pellet (and few temp. variations),
- extreamly cold weather > 'stove temp + auto'...
'Room temp + auto' or 'room temp + manual' 7/24 needs ~33 pounds a day, for us, more with 'stove temp + auto'.

I noticed ESP cleaning (I took down ES probe and rubbed it with 000 steel wool) needs to turn up a bit the temp setting.

_Au revoir_.






PS : After cleaning, select 'stove temp + auto' and the stove will light on even if room temp is too hight.


----------



## thro9

Great info, I have the Harman Hydroflex 60 boiler, anyone with any additional tips on it?


----------



## lbcynya

Scott T. said:


> I've tried 3 different type of pellets with the same results. The stove is only 2 weeks old but I did clean the firepot holes a few days ago & they were all clean. Haven't did the dollar bill between the door yet as we've been running it but the door is hard to shut (Very tight) so I don't think the door gasket is bad yet. Appreciate the suggestions!


 
Can you start another thread with pictures of your entire setup.  This will get you access to the pro's for advice.  Sounds like an intake/exhaust issue to me.


----------



## lbcynya

Good post on Harman's "new feature" to allow shutdown of the stove in the event of a power loss - with the right battery backup:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/harman-auto-shut-down-on-ups.103723/

This is for post November 2010 stoves with the "E" series board.  If you have an older stove, you'd need to buy an newer board or see if Harman would consider upgrading it...


----------



## shellyf

*Cleaning tip* - During your periodic cleaning, turn the knob to "test" while you clean the firebox to evacuate the ash out the chimney vs. into your room.

Thank you more than you know! I have been suffering with soot all over my house every time I clean the stove... I could not be more excited about this tip!


----------



## abrucerd

General question: What settings should be used for maximum heat output? Stove temp set to highest? Or room temp in recovery? What about feed rate? I know raising it can be wasteful, but will it produce the maximum output?

For example:  let's say I've just finished cleaning my stove, but my house temp has dropped 10 degrees since I initiated shutdown.  What setting will regain those 10 degrees the fastest?


----------



## lbcynya

shellyf said:


> *Cleaning tip* - During your periodic cleaning, turn the knob to "test" while you clean the firebox to evacuate the ash out the chimney vs. into your room.
> 
> Thank you more than you know! I have been suffering with soot all over my house every time I clean the stove... I could not be more excited about this tip!


 
I've actually found an even better way...  Just open the door and turn the stove on (switch to manual) the combustion blower will run but not the distribution blower which doesn't need to run anyway.  Shut it off, close the door, lid, etc. and turn it back on for normal operation.


----------



## lbcynya

abrucerd said:


> General question: What settings should be used for maximum heat output? Stove temp set to highest? Or room temp in recovery? What about feed rate? I know raising it can be wasteful, but will it produce the maximum output?
> 
> For example: let's say I've just finished cleaning my stove, but my house temp has dropped 10 degrees since I initiated shutdown. What setting will regain those 10 degrees the fastest?


 
If you have your feed rate set to an optimal level, as noted in the beginning of the thread, with a good pellet you'll reach ESP temps in the low to mid 400's range (think 500 is max) which should get things up to temp quickly.  With Somersets, I can get to 445 with a feed rate of 2.5... If you want to push it you can turn up the feed rate and check for spilling pellets or smoke (incomplete combustion) which means you are "spinning your wheels".  Remember, the ESP is in the exhaust, so it's measuring waste heat not just stove temperature.  

In stove temp mode, you'd need to set the temp knob to 7 in order to allow for max ESP temp.  

In room temp mode, the stove will always allow max ESP temp until the heat request is satisfied.  Quality of pellet and feed rate will determine how close to max temp the ESP will see.


----------



## Central NH

Scott T. said:


> I've had my Harman XXV since beginning of January 2013 & still struggle to get the stove to work efficiently. I clean the glass & within 15 to 20 minutes of starting a fire on auto my glass is sooted up. After a hour or two it has about a 1/3 of the glass sooted up. I try to go by the 1" ash rule but with same results. I smell the stove outside sometimes & it has a different smell than my other stove ( Cumberland 3700). My best fires are at 2 1/2 of the feedrate & 70 on room temp auto. Any suggestions on what I'm doing wrong? If I run on 4 like manual says I get hot coals being pushed into the ashpan.


 
My XXV ran like that before I put in an OAK.  Do you have an out side air kit?


----------



## Ejectr

I'd like to add that I was told by Harman that in the case of a pellet furnace at least, if the wall controller does not agree with a digital thermometer you have near the wall controller, do not slip the dial on the wall controller to get them to agree. You can use the "temp knob" that you would use in manual to trim the wall controller running in automatic.

The temp knob has a "normal" setting that you run at in automatic. If that "normal" setting is off from the digital reading, you will see that the temp dial is labeled 1-2-3 normal 4-5-6. The 3 numbers below normal are -1 degree increments and the 3 number above are +1 degree increments from the wall controllers dial setting. So you can trim the temp setting by +/- 3 degrees.


----------



## Ejectr

lbcynya said:


> Yes, when in Auto mode only...
> 
> The joy/pain of this being a sticky is the fact that I can no longer edit the post to update it and keep it fresh as new issues arise. Hmmm...I thought stove temp manual/auto was already in there... Maybe the Mod's can help me out with this and unlock it...
> 
> That being said, Stove Temp has 2 unique working modes - Auto and Manual via igniter switch selection. Stove temp AUTO will allow the distribution fan to run at most temperatures selected. Stove temp MANUAL will turn off the fan unless the temp knob is 5 or HIGHER to prevent the stove from overheating I would presume. Harman calls this "Fireplace mode" or something like that, to have a large flame without overheating the room. Either case, when in stove temp it will not shut down unless you turn off or it runs out of pellets.


I found that once the edit capability expires, you can still click on edit and then click on "more options". When it opens, you can once again edit whatever is showing.


----------



## MikeNH

Anyone know of an online resource to find out what the dip switches on a control board do?


----------



## lbcynya

MikeNH said:


> Anyone know of an online resource to find out what the dip switches on a control board do?


 
Here is a link for dip switch settings from another post (caution, use this as only a general guide since the settings apply to specific revisions and serial numbers of boards) - https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/harman-accentra-will-not-turn-off.79540/page-4#post-1077718


----------



## Lugo Sanchez

I'm having trouble with my invincible pellet insert. Stove is not feeding enough pellets to maintain temp and stove shuts off after 15 minutes, tried in both modes, room and stove. Already replace ESP and Room sensor probes. Run test and everything is operating fine. Any Suggestions?


----------



## Central NH

Lugo Sanchez said:


> I'm having trouble with my invincible pellet insert. Stove is not feeding enough pellets to maintain temp and stove shuts off after 15 minutes, tried in both modes, room and stove. Already replace ESP and Room sensor probes. Run test and everything is operating fine. Any Suggestions?


 
How many times does your status light blink??? when it turns itself off


----------



## gscreely

lbcynya said:


> If either option above doesn't suit your needs, you can ditch the way Harman wants you to run the stove and install a simple thermostat to control the room temperature. See my *signature* for details on the Skytach model or see post #8 below or the traditional Harman recommendation.



I have run my Harmans that way, and my conclusion is you do not save a lot of fuel. I imagine if you use it in the shoulder seasons it would save some fuel, but in the heart of the heating system just set it to stove temp and run it. 

Room temp does not save fuel either, because when the stove ramps up and down it does not run as efficiently. If efficiency is your goal - stove temp is your mode. Roomtemp is about comfort.


----------



## TheMightyMoe

gscreely said:


> I have run my Harmans that way, and my conclusion is you do not save a lot of fuel. I imagine if you use it in the shoulder seasons it would save some fuel, but in the heart of the heating system just set it to stove temp and run it.
> 
> Room temp does not save fuel either, because when the stove ramps up and down it does not run as efficiently. If efficiency is your goal - stove temp is your mode. Roomtemp is about comfort.



Maybe if you don't have an OAK.

If you are running a OAK and run in manual mode, if your distribution blower is not running, you are idling pellets away, and putting cold air into your stove. 

Likewise, if you run in manual, and your distribution blower is not running, your heat is going out the flue. PERIOD.

These stoves are convection heaters, not radiant heaters.

In room temperature mode your distribution fan is going to run until there is no more heat to pull out of the stove instead of wasting it into the flue.

I will burn an extra half bag+ a day in manual mode when it is very cold out. I also use more pellets daily than "most people", so I get to see a large variation in a single day. (3+ bags a day in -40s) 6 1/2 tons a year.

Of course it is all opinion.


----------



## lbcynya

gscreely said:


> I have run my Harmans that way, and my conclusion is you do not save a lot of fuel. I imagine if you use it in the shoulder seasons it would save some fuel, but in the heart of the heating system just set it to stove temp and run it.
> 
> Room temp does not save fuel either, because when the stove ramps up and down it does not run as efficiently. If efficiency is your goal - stove temp is your mode. Roomtemp is about comfort.



While I value your experience, I can't say I agree with your opinion.  With that said, I'm basing my statement on using an external thermostat with the stove set to manual in the heart of the heating season (shoulder season is always hit/miss).  A warm stove is an efficient stove.  Look at modern high-efficiency gas furnaces.  Most are now dual stage and, in some cases, some are completely variable.  This is to simply burn what is necessary to maintain the required temperature without letting ducting and structure cool down too much.  Heating this mass back up to achieve equilibrium is inefficient.  As I said, a warm stove is an efficient stove any way you slice it.

Your first sentence suggests that some savings is gained by using a thermostat...  It's also a given that you maintain a more even room temperature (comfort), so why is this not preferred?  Savings + comfort is a win/win.  For the record, I use a thermostat (igniter set to manual) for convenience, ease of use (for my family, less variables) and efficiency relative to stove and pellet consumption.  Maintenance burn keeps the stove warm (efficient) while still putting need BTU's into the house, since we are ALWAYS losing heat.  When the thermostat calls for heat, the stove ramps up to high burn, quickly and efficiently putting the necessary heat into the house to get the room temperature back up to the required temperature.  This high burn is efficient (as long as no smoke is coming out of the exhaust) and helps keep the piping clean as opposed to idling or low burn all the time.

"Just set it to stove temp and forget it" - While this seems to work for you, we can't ignore the facts that other forum members will want to rely on.  Stove temp will give you fairly consistent pellet usage, but that's where the consistency ends...  Warm days, you will overheat the room.  Sunny days you could overheat the room.  Cold days you will under heat the room.  Windy days, you'll under heat the room.  If the goal is efficiency, then overheating is a waste.  Under heating doesn't serve the intended purpose...  If you end up fiddling with the temperature nob based on what's going on outside, then you are the thermostat...which isn't efficient either.

My case - Stove temp trying to keep in the low 70's = >1 bag a day of pellet consumption, external thermostat (set and forget at 72, +) will burn <1 bag a day.  That's a well insulated, 1300 square foot basement, bleeding a small amount of heat to the 1800 square feet upstairs.  It's pretty consistent.  Down below 15 degrees, I will approach 1 full bag per 24 hours, maybe a touch more.  Either way, the room averages 72...


----------



## MikeNH

TheMightyMoe said:


> Likewise, if you run in manual, and your distribution blower is not running, your heat is going out the flue. PERIOD. These stoves are convection heaters, not radiant heaters.



I've noticed that with my P61a, there's quiet a bit of radiant heat coming off the top and sides when it's in maintenance mode.  It's enough to keep the room at a steady temp for hours at a time on a 20-30 degree day.  I think this mode comes in quite handy when temps drop.  The stove is already up to temp and when the thermostat calls for heat, the distribution fan ramps right up and the feed rate increases.  



gscreely said:


> just set it to stove temp and run it.



I look at stove temp mode as "wood stove mode."  It doesn't care what the room temp is, just like a wood stove.  I think this comes in very handy for folks like my neighbor, who is heating an old farmhouse with a P68.  She just wants to be as warm as possible and is making up for heat loss through her walls.  For us in a 10 year old home, room temp works much better.  Stove temp caused our living room to become too warm.  It all depends on your situation and what you want from your stove.  I bought mine for comfort and ease-of-use.  Increased pellet use in "room temp manual" for me is an acceptable loss over the amount of oil I was going through.  My stove - running the way I run it - will pay itself off in three years.


----------



## THE ROOSTER

TheMightyMoe said:


> Just a re-post that has been referred to many time...
> 
> *All Harman pellet units can utilize a setback thermostat. The thermostat must be:*
> 
> Harman reccommends the following Honeywell units for this use:
> 
> RTH230B
> RTH6300B



One question about these two, "do these replace the factory room sensor or work with it"? My factory sensor has gone bad, and I am thinking about going with one of these vs. ordering a factory replacement.
Thanks


----------



## Justin M

They work with it.


----------



## cabinover

Ibcynya, Do you know if a PF100 is controlled the same as Harman stoves? I didn't see any mention either way. Thanks for the great explanations on how /why they work.


----------



## lbcynya

cabinover said:


> Ibcynya, Do you know if a PF100 is controlled the same as Harman stoves? I didn't see any mention either way. Thanks for the great explanations on how /why they work.


 
Sorry, I do not. It would be interesting to compare.


----------



## cabinover

I'll see if my Harman dealer knows but he probably wouldn't tell me anyway. Thanks


----------



## PPLcangotoh...

I've been running our Accentra insert for a few months now & just stumbled on this thread. 

I've read the manual and the technical stuff in this thread several times... but still have a few questions. 

1) I don't know for sure, but I think the installed put the wall mount unit UNDER the stove where the control panel swings open. IF it's under there, is it ok... or should I try to relocate it?

2) the ash that I'm getting stays stuck together and will travel almost 2.5 inches out past the edge before breaking off.  I've put the feed rate down to almost 1.5 ( stove was starting to blow cooler air ) and up to almost 6 ( runs out overnight but still no half burnt pellets in the ash pan )

Help..... Please......


----------



## PPLcangotoh...

Anyone?


----------



## bdaoust

PPL  - I suggest you post your question in it's own thread.  

Not many people will see this as it's an older thread. 

-Brian


----------



## Justin M

PPLcangotoh... said:


> I've been running our Accentra insert for a few months now & just stumbled on this thread.
> 
> I've read the manual and the technical stuff in this thread several times... but still have a few questions.
> 
> 1) I don't know for sure, but I think the installed put the wall mount unit UNDER the stove where the control panel swings open. IF it's under there, is it ok... or should I try to relocate it?
> 
> 2) the ash that I'm getting stays stuck together and will travel almost 2.5 inches out past the edge before breaking off.  I've put the feed rate down to almost 1.5 ( stove was starting to blow cooler air ) and up to almost 6 ( runs out overnight but still no half burnt pellets in the ash pan )
> 
> Help..... Please......


If you start start a new thread for your question you will likely get an immediate response.  I'm not sure what you mean by "the wall mount unit"?  If you are talking about the room temp. sensor then your question is answered in the first post of this thread.  As to your ash question, it is likely caused by the pellets that you are burning.  What brand are you burning and have you tried switching?


----------



## HarmanManP43

Hi,

Read this helpful thread and thought i could add some temperature numbers to it if anyone is interested.  I recently installed a P43 and wanted to get a baseline for the stove incase there is a problem in the future so i can compare.  These numbers probably aren't too accurate but still some people might find them useful.

Stove temp mode -  Auto

Stove temp (ESP) to Degrees F
3=380
4=435
5= 480
6=545
7=565

Temp was taken with an cheap IR thermometer from the side of the stove as this is a close as i could get to ESP temps.


----------



## fmsm

PPLcangotoh... said:


> I've been running our Accentra insert for a few months now & just stumbled on this thread.
> 
> .



I've read the manual and the technical stuff in this thread several times... but still have a few questions.

1) I don't know for sure, but I think the installed put the wall mount unit UNDER the stove where the control panel swings open. IF it's under there, is it ok... or should I try to relocate it?

You can leave it where it is. Just set set the temp to what is most comfortable for you in room temp as the temp of the probe probably will be different than the rest of the room. In stove temp you are going off the esp so it does not matter at all.

2) the ash that I'm getting stays stuck together and will travel almost 2.5 inches out past the edge before breaking off.  I've put the feed rate down to almost 1.5 ( stove was starting to blow cooler air ) and up to almost 6 ( runs out overnight but still no half burnt pellets in the ash pan ) 

What are you burning for pellets?     Do you have a OAK installed?  Set you fee rate for about an inch of ash on the burn pot ignoring the hanging over ash, start at a setting of  and fine tune from there


----------



## moshar

Am Upstate NY older female with Harman Invincible pellet stove issue. Been using it this season (only source of heat) since November with no issues and I do weekly cleanings.  Have older home and only use medium size living and kitchen rooms (closed off rest of rooms). Since outside temperature has dropped to between -3 to 7 degrees night and some days, I can't seem to regulate feed rate. Use only stove mode as thermostat not hooked up. Use temp 7 and changed feed too many times to know how many turns. In stove throat, pellets burn as soon as pushed out from auger so by time they get to pot they just pile on top of one another to form really big pile . Bottom of pellets from back to front of pot are red hot, top pellets from back to front range from red burned pellets, then black pellets, gray pellets, but only 1/4" of ash. Too much feed, pile just gets bigger and partially burned pellets fall off but flame and heat output good. Too low feed, low flame and low heat and not enough heat producing pellets. Can't regulate feed to warm room in this weather....any helpful suggestions?


----------



## HarmanManP43

moshar said:


> Am Upstate NY older female with Harman Invincible pellet stove issue. Been using it this season (only source of heat) since November with no issues and I do weekly cleanings.  Have older home and only use medium size living and kitchen rooms (closed off rest of rooms). Since outside temperature has dropped to between -3 to 7 degrees night and some days, I can't seem to regulate feed rate. Use only stove mode as thermostat not hooked up. Use temp 7 and changed feed too many times to know how many turns. In stove throat, pellets burn as soon as pushed out from auger so by time they get to pot they just pile on top of one another to form really big pile . Bottom of pellets from back to front of pot are red hot, top pellets from back to front range from red burned pellets, then black pellets, gray pellets, but only 1/4" of ash. Too much feed, pile just gets bigger and partially burned pellets fall off but flame and heat output good. Too low feed, low flame and low heat and not enough heat producing pellets. Can't regulate feed to warm room in this weather....any helpful suggestions?


 
Little confused by your description, however start from where you have feed rate that keeps the room warm as thats the most important! Then if pellets are still falling off or you have less than an inch of ash dial back the feed rate in half number increments.  Say its on 5 go to 4.5 then wait 30 mins and check again.  Trick is do do very fine adjustments and then let the stove settle with the new settings.  Give it at least 30 mins!

If this fails to work and your sure you the stove is clean (get somone to check draft to be sure) and clean the ESP!

Make sure your pellet quality is good (consistant) as this is the most likely reason.

if all the above fails you may have a faulty ESP or control board that is not mainting a correct feed rate.


----------



## moshar

I had backed off feed adjustment little by little but that didn't take care of problem. I haven't had any prior problems with current ton of pellets. What I didn't mention in my much too detailed description was pellets never stopped feeding at any point on setting 7 or 6 which I believe was my problem. So right now I have increased the feed and lowered temp to 4 and this seems to help as feed now stops to allow 1" of ashes to form.


----------



## HarmanManP43

moshar said:


> I had backed off feed adjustment little by little but that didn't take care of problem. I haven't had any prior problems with current ton of pellets. What I didn't mention in my much too detailed description was pellets never stopped feeding at any point on setting 7 or 6 which I believe was my problem. So right now I have increased the feed and lowered temp to 4 and this seems to help as feed now stops to allow 1" of ashes to form.


 
Thats makes sense as the stove was alwatys trying to get up to temperature it was constantly dumping pellets in.  However backing down the feed rate should have prevented the build up as that is exactly what that setting is for! 

Keep us updated on what you find.


----------



## moshar

No matter whether I increased or decreased the feed rate, it wouldn't stop feeding pellets between stove temps 5-7. What I finally did was adjusted the feed rate AND lowered the stove temp down to between 3.5 - 4 and this seemed to be much better as now the feed finally stops when stove gets up to temperature.  Has been working well for a couple of days now and house is now comfortable.


----------



## Jeff B

I bought a used accentra insert and when I had the installers come install it they said it was damaged and needed repair.  (Thankfully this was covered under warranty) and when they returned the stove after "fixing" it-after a couple of days of burning I realized the temp knob and the blower knob had been installed 180 degrees out of correct position.  I returned the knobs to their proper position.  Anyways, my stove has been making a lot of ash (as compared to the FS accentra i had at my last house).  Would this stove have been calibrated by the tech after reinstalling it?  and could these dials being in the wrong position effect the stove now?  Any help appreciated.


----------



## HarmanManP43

Jeff B said:


> I bought a used accentra insert and when I had the installers come install it they said it was damaged and needed repair.  (Thankfully this was covered under warranty) and when they returned the stove after "fixing" it-after a couple of days of burning I realized the temp knob and the blower knob had been installed 180 degrees out of correct position.  I returned the knobs to their proper position.  Anyways, my stove has been making a lot of ash (as compared to the FS accentra i had at my last house).  Would this stove have been calibrated by the tech after reinstalling it?  and could these dials being in the wrong position effect the stove now?  Any help appreciated.




Ash or soot?  

Excess soot would indicate a bad setup.  However if it's burning clean ash is a pellet issue.


----------



## Cruiser101

I am new here but I have been burning a Harmon PC45 for a few years. I would like to know what others are getting for distribution temperatures out the front of the stove. I have the blower set to as low as it will go and use a mechanical surface thermometer on a magnetic base that is placed between the holes at the top center of the front of the stove.
Using wood pellets, the auger runs 3 seconds out of a 12 second cycle.
I am getting about 285°F out of the stove.
How does this compare to what you are getting?

Increased both the feed rate and stove temp last night. Outside temp is -5°F
Using wood pellets, the auger runs 5 seconds out of a 12 second cycle now.
I am getting about 335°F out of the stove and burning a lot of pellets.


----------



## Ctcarl

Jeff B said:


> I bought a used accentra insert and when I had the installers come install it they said it was damaged and needed repair.  (Thankfully this was covered under warranty) and when they returned the stove after "fixing" it-after a couple of days of burning I realized the temp knob and the blower knob had been installed 180 degrees out of correct position.  I returned the knobs to their proper position.  Anyways, my stove has been making a lot of ash (as compared to the FS accentra i had at my last house).  Would this stove have been calibrated by the tech after reinstalling it?  and could these dials being in the wrong position effect the stove now?  Any help appreciated.


On my brand new harman p35i I get a lot of ash especially when I crank it.im using green supremes and was told this is normal.Of course black soot that is hard to clean off your glass then there may be a problem.


----------



## fmsm

Ctcarl said:


> On my brand new harman p35i I get a lot of ash especially when I crank it.im using green supremes and was told this is normal.Of course black soot that is hard to clean off your glass then there may be a problem.


Not normal for other pellets, GS is the worst pellet I have ever burned. Try some Fireside Ultras if you want box store brands, much hotter, cleaner, and slightly less ash. Best of all no sticky residue like the GS's


----------



## Ctcarl

fmsm said:


> Not normal for other pellets, GS is the worst pellet I have ever burned. Try some Fireside Ultras if you want box store brands, much hotter, cleaner, and slightly less ash. Best of all no sticky residue like the GS's


Will look for that next time round. The Home Depot I used only had green supreme.thanx


----------



## smwilliamson

fmsm said:


> Not normal for other pellets, GS is the worst pellet I have ever burned. Try some Fireside Ultras if you want box store brands, much hotter, cleaner, and slightly less ash. Best of all no sticky residue like the GS's


FSU is good the past two years but they really sucked two years before that. Spend 20 bucks and try before you commit to the 6 ton buy


----------



## Rockbase

lbcynya said:


> Thanks Mod for correcting the title!
> 
> 
> Very good article. And thanks for replying to my question (1 of 2). While our time per setting on the feed rate varies (I found 1.0 = 15 seconds and every full number increased after that was + 10 seconds), our findings were the same. This shows a flaw in the initial setup of the P68. You can not guarantee that the esp thermocouple has not reached temp and caused the controller to over ride your feed rate setting, therefore while you believe setting it on 4 or 5 still leaves a 1" ash lip, the truth is the esp temp might have limited the actual feed rate to 3 (maybe its warm out), then one day when its really cold, it will not over ride the feed rate and will achieve a 4 or 5 feed rate and push un burned pellets over the edge.
> 
> I love my Harman, and after my testing understand it more. Maybe one day we can offer Harman a software change that will still keep the unit safe (#1), but allow a true proper feed rate (max) adjustment.
> 
> Once again, wonderful article and I wished I read it first !
> 
> Doug.
> 5 ton's plus each winter !
> Harman p68


----------



## rwreuter

Ok, first a couple of things.

I read this entire thread and my question wasn't answered.

I own a Harman XXV (new).

Question:

When operating in 'Stove temp' mode, you use the numbers on the control board to control the burn, it is constant.  I know that it is based on exhaust temp, but what I don't know is the AVERAGE consumption rate based on the number.  The dealer said 1 equals 1 pound per hour and 7 equals 7 pounds per hour.  I am unable to find anything that can verify that.  Other than temp, do those numbers correspond to a specific hourly pellet burn rate?


Thanks


----------



## lbcynya

rwreuter said:


> Ok, first a couple of things.
> 
> I read this entire thread and my question wasn't answered.
> 
> I own a Harman XXV (new).
> 
> Question:
> 
> When operating in 'Stove temp' mode, you use the numbers on the control board to control the burn, it is constant.  I know that it is based on exhaust temp, but what I don't know is the AVERAGE consumption rate based on the number.  The dealer said 1 equals 1 pound per hour and 7 equals 7 pounds per hour.  I am unable to find anything that can verify that.  Other than temp, do those numbers correspond to a specific hourly pellet burn rate?
> 
> 
> Thanks




Welcome... 

As a ballpark, which is what your dealer was trying to do, it's probably not tooo far off.  However, without taking ALL the variables into consideration, it's hard to distill your question down to simple burn rate per hour.  Cleanliness of stove and venting (air velocity moving through stove), pellet quality, incoming air temperature, room temperature, home heat loss all contribute to consumption...  So, for those reasons and more, there can be no clear cut answer for you...

What are you trying to accomplish?


----------



## rwreuter

lbcynya said:


> Welcome...
> 
> As a ballpark, which is what your dealer was trying to do, it's probably not tooo far off.  However, without taking ALL the variables into consideration, it's hard to distill your question down to simple burn rate per hour.  Cleanliness of stove and venting (air velocity moving through stove), pellet quality, incoming air temperature, room temperature, home heat loss all contribute to consumption...  So, for those reasons and more, there can be no clear cut answer for you...
> 
> What are you trying to accomplish?



Not trying to accomplish anything really.  Everything else is explained but what those numbers means to the user...other than a warmer environment.  Though, it would be nice to know that if I set it on 4, I am burning 4 pounds and hour or 96 pounds a day or about 2.5 bags a day.

Not sure if the math is right though on the pound per hour.  If it is a 50k btu pellet stove, 50k btu per hour and there are about 8700 btu per pound, then (my math) says something like 5.75 pounds per hour (that would be at full throttle, at least for that stove).

I know this isn't an exact science, just trying to figure the relation of those numbers to burn rate.  With temp setting I know what I am getting, usage is based on room temp.

Thanks and thanks for the welcome!


Rob


----------



## HarmanManP43

rwreuter said:


> Not trying to accomplish anything really.  Everything else is explained but what those numbers means to the user...other than a warmer environment.  Though, it would be nice to know that if I set it on 4, I am burning 4 pounds and hour or 96 pounds a day or about 2.5 bags a day.
> 
> Not sure if the math is right though on the pound per hour.  If it is a 50k btu pellet stove, 50k btu per hour and there are about 8700 btu per pound, then (my math) says something like 5.75 pounds per hour (that would be at full throttle, at least for that stove).
> 
> I know this isn't an exact science, just trying to figure the relation of those numbers to burn rate.  With temp setting I know what I am getting, usage is based on room temp.
> 
> Thanks and thanks for the welcome!
> 
> 
> Rob


 
Stove temp mode will always give you a more steady consumption rate, however as stated above due to the control panel controlling only the exhaust temp the main factor affecting consumption will be the temperature of the room.  The feed rate on Harmans is a max number only and the control panel decides how much to feed based on what you're asking from the stove. 

In short there is no real accurate way to estimate this, it's always going to be variable.  Howver if the temp outside remains reasonably steady i have found my consumption to be within a 1/3 of a bag day to day.


----------



## rwreuter

Thanks for the help....forums are great, people share their knowledge with the rest.......


----------



## moshar

moshar said:


> No matter whether I increased or decreased the feed rate, it wouldn't stop feeding pellets between stove temps 5-7. What I finally did was adjusted the feed rate AND lowered the stove temp down to between 3.5 - 4 and this seemed to be much better as now the feed finally stops when stove gets up to temperature.  Has been working well for a couple of days now and house is now comfortable.



Update 2/25/14:  Pellet stove is now working GREAT!  Just had a 'deep cleaning' done and I couldn't believe all the ashes that came out from below the holes in the pot, and all the chambers (looked like a sandbox when all the ashes fell out).  I should have had this done at the beginning of season to avoid all my previous headaches.


----------



## Marc1980

I just purchase a used pc45  running on pellet . It runs good but i want to know what is the factory setting of the draft ajustement . I got a draft meter in order but wont come in before a couple weeks .. right now the setting is 1/2 hay open or close at  5 "o clock .....


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## AccentraRRT

I apologize in advance if this is a repeat question; I read through most of the thread and understand the knob adjustments much better. I just recently purchased and had installed a new Accentra stand alone pellet stove. I have only used in Stove temp mode, always dialed to the "H". I keep the feed rate at 3.5 as recommended by the installer.. And have varried the temp setting between 5 and 6 based on desired temp. The stove is installed in a finished basement (approx 400sqft) with open stairwell two two store open floor plan house (approx 1600sqft) this has kept the basement around 75, main level around 68 and 2nd floor around 70 with bedroom doors closed; all without supplemental oil furnace being used.  I am going through about 1.75bags/day. My question is... Does this sounds reasonable?? And secondly since I shut down the stove this AM and did a quick clean out, I've noticed the burn is stopping about 1 inch from endge with the 1 inch of ash however the ash is very bulky looking.. I don't remember seeing this prior.. Is this okay? Any assistance you can provide, I greatly appreciate. I am a first time owner.


----------



## TonyVideo

AccentraRRT said:


> I apologize in advance if this is a repeat question; I read through most of the thread and understand the knob adjustments much better. I just recently purchased and had installed a new Accentra stand alone pellet stove. I have only used in Stove temp mode, always dialed to the "H". I keep the feed rate at 3.5 as recommended by the installer.. And have varried the temp setting between 5 and 6 based on desired temp. The stove is installed in a finished basement (approx 400sqft) with open stairwell two two store open floor plan house (approx 1600sqft) this has kept the basement around 75, main level around 68 and 2nd floor around 70 with bedroom doors closed; all without supplemental oil furnace being used.  I am going through about 1.75bags/day. My question is... Does this sounds reasonable?? And secondly since I shut down the stove this AM and did a quick clean out, I've noticed the burn is stopping about 1 inch from endge with the 1 inch of ash however the ash is very bulky looking.. I don't remember seeing this prior.. Is this okay? Any assistance you can provide, I greatly appreciate. I am a first time owner.


Sounds normal to me at those settings.


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## jmack80

Hello,
Thanks for the great thread.  Back in March I purchased a P38+ as it was on close out.   Maryland has a state grant so I had it professionally installed by the dealer.  The grant covered the install, so it was pretty convenient.   Anyway, I ran a few bags through it last year on stove temp and I'm pretty excited about this upcoming winter.

After reading the posts, I think I have a pretty clear understanding of the system, but can I just get 2 confirmations?

1.  My understanding is that the P38+ can work in room mode, even without the auto ignition.   It will just go into "maintenance mode" when the desired room temp is met.  Is this correct.  The manual really doesn't clarify that. 

2.  What/where exactly is the "room temperature sensor" on the P38+?   Is it just the wire that is coming out of the back of the unit?   Can it be cut/extended to run farther into the room?  

Thanks for all of the help.  I appreciate you putting this info out for the general public.   The Dealer was pretty good, but couldn't really get into the tech specs of the 38.  Said they mostly do 43s.

Looking forward to hearing from you.


----------



## zrtmatos

This a great informative post for all Harman owners. Thanks for this information. Of course I just use it on auto then manual and it never turns off for most of the season.


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## 08specB

Ok so I have read this thread (the first page) several times to try and understand how my stove works. I have had my stove (XXV) for just a couple months however really only using it the last month since its been getting colder out. I have the stove set at between 75-80 degrees, on ROOM temp and the feed it set at 3. The sensor until last night was left curled up the way they sent it to me on the back of the stove. I kept the fan/blower setting all the way on high also while running the stove. 

The room the stove is in is a living room and it along with all of the connecting rooms have cathedral ceilings. The living room, dining room, kitchen and foyer are ALL cathedral and the total square footage upstairs is about 1,350 sq ft. The hallway to the bedrooms it starts with regular 8ft ceilings (raised ranch). 

I bring this up because my in-laws got their 52i insert installed this past week. Their settings are set to the same as mine but their stove shuts off when the room gets to temp and mine does not (theirs is also in alot smaller of a room). It runs constantly the entire time I have it running the room gets pretty hot. I called the place I got it from and they said I should turn the temp down to make sure the probe is working and if it is the stove will slow or shut down (when it gets satisfied). If the probe isnt working the status light he said will blink 4 times. I have not noticed the status light blinking so I will try lowering the temp and keep an eye on the status light. 

Any tips or anyone have this problem?


----------



## TonyVideo

You should make this a separate thread as most won't see this.


----------



## lbcynya

08specB said:


> Ok so I have read this thread (the first page) several times to try and understand how my stove works. I have had my stove (XXV) for just a couple months however really only using it the last month since its been getting colder out. I have the stove set at between 75-80 degrees, on ROOM temp and the feed it set at 3. The sensor until last night was left curled up the way they sent it to me on the back of the stove. I kept the fan/blower setting all the way on high also while running the stove.
> 
> The room the stove is in is a living room and it along with all of the connecting rooms have cathedral ceilings. The living room, dining room, kitchen and foyer are ALL cathedral and the total square footage upstairs is about 1,350 sq ft. The hallway to the bedrooms it starts with regular 8ft ceilings (raised ranch).
> 
> I bring this up because my in-laws got their 52i insert installed this past week. Their settings are set to the same as mine but their stove shuts off when the room gets to temp and mine does not (theirs is also in alot smaller of a room). It runs constantly the entire time I have it running the room gets pretty hot. I called the place I got it from and they said I should turn the temp down to make sure the probe is working and if it is the stove will slow or shut down (when it gets satisfied). If the probe isnt working the status light he said will blink 4 times. I have not noticed the status light blinking so I will try lowering the temp and keep an eye on the status light.
> 
> Any tips or anyone have this problem?



Hello and Welcome,

First, you need to optimize the placement of your temp probe to the room. Ideally, you want it 4ish feet off the floor on an inside wall, similar to a thermostat.  If you can't do that, then you need to put it in a draft free area, away from exterior walls, where you can regulate the dial temperature vs. the actual temperature.  If you find that spot, then you should get consistent temps, based on the delta.  You say your room gets hot because it might need to reach 90 in order to satisfy a probe at 80 degrees, based on that location.  For instance, if you find a spot that a 70 degree dial setting will yield a 75 degree room temperature, then your delta will typically be 5 degrees.  Weather, wind, etc might vary this slightly, but you get the point.  Large areas with the temp probe can be hard to regulate, in this case a Skytech wireless thermostat could be your BEST FRIEND.

If you have your igniter switch to manual, your stove will never shut off, just go to maintenance burn between calls for heat.  In auto, stove will shut down.

Also, bump up your feed rate to 4 so the stove can do its job when it gets colder.


----------



## 08specB

lbcynya said:


> Hello and Welcome,
> 
> First, you need to optimize the placement of your temp probe to the room. Ideally, you want it 4ish feet off the floor on an inside wall, similar to a thermostat.  If you can't do that, then you need to put it in a draft free area, away from exterior walls, where you can regulate the dial temperature vs. the actual temperature.  If you find that spot, then you should get consistent temps, based on the delta.  You say your room gets hot because it might need to reach 90 in order to satisfy a probe at 80 degrees, based on that location.  For instance, if you find a spot that a 70 degree dial setting will yield a 75 degree room temperature, then your delta will typically be 5 degrees.  Weather, wind, etc might vary this slightly, but you get the point.  Large areas with the temp probe can be hard to regulate, in this case a Skytech wireless thermostat could be your BEST FRIEND.
> 
> If you have your igniter switch to manual, your stove will never shut off, just go to maintenance burn between calls for heat.  In auto, stove will shut down.
> 
> Also, bump up your feed rate to 4 so the stove can do its job when it gets colder.



The probe itself is about 4-5ft off the floor as high as it can go on a piece of wood that separates two of the rooms (dining room and livingroom). It is on a wall that has no drafts or windows so I think I am good on that end. I do have a digital thermometer about 6-7 ft away from the stove on out hutch. It is an outside/inside weather station and by keeping an eye on the temp it is 1-2 degrees to what the stove is set to.


----------



## lbcynya

08specB said:


> The probe itself is about 4-5ft off the floor as high as it can go on a piece of wood that separates two of the rooms (dining room and livingroom). It is on a wall that has no drafts or windows so I think I am good on that end. I do have a digital thermometer about 6-7 ft away from the stove on out hutch. It is an outside/inside weather station and by keeping an eye on the temp it is 1-2 degrees to what the stove is set to.



Igniter switch on auto or manual?


----------



## 08specB

lbcynya said:


> Igniter switch on auto or manual?



auto


----------



## lbcynya

08specB said:


> auto




As long as it's not overheating my more than 3-4 degrees from setpoint, I wouldn't be concerned.  Also, if it throttles way back that's a good sign too.  You might be loosing enough heat to not allow it to fully execute a shut down.  If you want to test this, set the temp knob to 50 degrees and see if it shuts down.  If not, then you might have an issue.


----------



## 08specB

lbcynya said:


> As long as it's not overheating my more than 3-4 degrees from setpoint, I wouldn't be concerned.  Also, if it throttles way back that's a good sign too.  You might be loosing enough heat to not allow it to fully execute a shut down.  If you want to test this, set the temp knob to 50 degrees and see if it shuts down.  If not, then you might have an issue.



It DOES throttle back and burns a very low flame when it gets closer to temp. I did try and put it to 70 degrees one time and it did shut down but not for long. Thanks


----------



## lbcynya

08specB said:


> It DOES throttle back and burns a very low flame when it gets closer to temp. I did try and put it to 70 degrees one time and it did shut down but not for long. Thanks



Perfect, that's why Auto isn't really necessary other than shoulder seasons.  When it's cold, you'll always need heat.  Not wasting pellets, IMO, and you avoid unnecessary igniter cycles.


----------



## TonyVideo

Room temp will always ramp up and down as needed to maintain the +/- 1 degree room temp setting. I consider when it ramps down it is saving me pellets vs a constant no holds bard like in stove mode. I use stove mode only when Temps ate in the teens or below and windy. I know I need heat at that point.


----------



## Richard_Harvey

Hello Everyone, total newbie here and in need of a little help from the experts.  I have a "new to me" Harman P61A in my totally un-finished basement. I have installed a somewhat elaborate heat distribution system to get the bulk of the heat up to the main floor as I have no need to heat the basement. The system includes two 400cfm duct fans mounted way down-stream of the stove, an Aprilaire 600m humidifier w/additional 240cfm fan mounted post humidifier creating  negative pressure inside the unit which "pulls" air into the unit and over the evaporative system, insulated 6" ducts and three strategically located floor vents on the main floor. This setup has been working very well for a few weeks while the temps have not dipped too low.  But now that the colder weather has arrived I'm finding the stove is not able to keep my 2800sq two floor house warm enough on its own.

What I'm finding is the stove in either stove temp or room temp mode is not running hot enough at all, I have watched it for hours in both modes and I can see it throttle down.  I have the best success running in room temp mode with the probe sitting on the concrete floor but even still the stove throttles down.  I want this thing to run more like a full on furnace.  Even set with feed rate at 6, temp maxed out and distribution blower at max the fire is not always flaming high, sometimes it's just a very tiny flame (seems that's called a lazy flame), which tells me the electronics are holding back. And by the way, I have way more than 1" of ash on the lip, more like 2.5 - 3 inches with electronics set as described above, using New England High Quality Pellets so near no ash.

So my quest is to find a way to get this thing to crank, run at as high a temp as possible and get all 61,000 hourly BTU's out of this thing, yup run it like a furnace.  How is that possible...?

Thanks everyone......

Rich


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## lbcynya

Richard_Harvey said:


> Hello Everyone, total newbie here needed a little help from the experts.  I have a "new to me" Harman P61A in my basement. I have installed a somewhat elaborate heat distribution system to get the bulk of the heat up to the main floor as I have no need to heat the basement. The system includes two 400cfm duct fans, a Aprilaire 600m humidifier w/additional 240cfm fan, insulated 6" ducts and three strategically located floor vents on the main floor. This setup has been working very well for a few weeks while the temps have not dipped too low.  But now that the colder weather has arrived I'm finding the stove is not able to keep my 2800sq two floor house warm enough on its own.
> 
> What I'm finding is the stove in either stove temp or room temp is not running hot enough at all, I have watched it for hours in both modes and I can see it throttle down.  I have the best success running in room temp mode with the probe sitting on the concrete floor but even still the stove throttles down.  I want this thing to run more like a full on furnace.  Even set with feed rate at 6, temp maxed out and distribution blower at max the fire is not always flaming high, sometimes it's just a very tiny flame, which tells me the electronics are holding back. And by the way, I have way more than 1" of ask on the lip. more like 2.5 - 3 inches set as described above.
> 
> So my quest is to find a way to get this thing to crank, run at as high a temp as possible and get all 61,000 hourly BTU's out of this thing, yup run it like a furnace.  How is that possible...?
> 
> Thanks everyone......
> 
> Rich



My guess is improper venting or a dying ESP.  I'd post this in the main forms to get access to more eyes.  Post install,pics too.


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## TonyVideo

Yes tagging this request on an old post will limit responses. I will respond under a new thread.


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## Jenfmi

Just bought my first pellet stove- Harmon P43.  I've read through the threads- great great information.  I'm still a little confused.  What is the difference when I have the stove on auto vs. manual when I have it set at 70 degrees, feed rate of 3, room temperature?  In auto, does the stove kick out more heat or does the ignitor just come on more.  Sorry for the stupid question, but just wanted to make sure that I'm running it as efficiently as possible.


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## TonyVideo

In auto and no heat needed the stove will shut down and use the ignitor to start back up. In manual room temp a maintenance fire will be maintained for a faster ramp up of heat. I use auto only in the shoulder or beginning and ending months. When it is cold out I put it in manual since it will never shut down and a faster response for heat.


----------



## F4jock

TonyVideo said:


> In auto and no heat needed the stove will shut down and use the ignitor to start back up. In manual room temp a maintenance fire will be maintained for a faster ramp up of heat. I use auto only in the shoulder or beginning and ending months. When it is cold out I put it in manual since it will never shut down and a faster response for heat.


Not to be a picky PITA but to be specific the stove MAY shutdown. If room temp setting is achieved and maintained long enough to trigger the shutdown cycle it will. If not, not. If at any time during the first part of the shutdown cycle room temp falls below setpoint the stove will begin feeding again w/o ignighter coming on. Since there is still fire or embers present it goes back into normal operation. Tony is 100% correct about manual mode. Some say that runni g in manual preserves the ignighter but I've run in auto for going on six seasons now and only just had to replace one.


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## Jenfmi

Great.  Thanks for the responses.


----------



## breed5577

lbcynya said:


> Thanks Mod for correcting the title!
> 
> Now, let's have some fun and stay warm!
> 
> *How your stove works* - The facts are pretty straightforward, but how you get people to properly interpret the facts is the hard part. It's your toy, run it the way you want as long as you understand what's going on behind the scenes! Everything noted below is based on me seeing what the stove is doing via the Harman diagnostic tool during the various operation methods. I get to see feed rates, max feed rates, current ESP temps, ESP set temps, room sensor temperatures, room sensor target temperatures, knob positions, switch positions, etc.
> 
> _Here are the facts:_
> 
> *Stove temp* - 100% driven the the ESP (temperature probe in stove exhaust flow). Temp dial corresponds to a fixed ESP temperature. For simplicity, let's assume a setting of 3 = 300 degrees ESP temp. The stove will ramp feed up/down to always be as close to 300 degrees as possible. In stove temp the stove doesn't care what the room temp is, only the ESP temp. The room might be 60 or 90 degrees doesn't matter, all it cares about is maintaining an ESP temp of 300.The stove will not shut off in stove temp regardless of whether the igniter switch is set to auto or manual. Stove temp, switch to manual - I call this fireplace mode. Distribution fan will not turn on unless the temp knob is set to 5 or higher. This is designed to give a nice fire, but not a ton of heat in the room. Most goes up the chimney. Stove temp, switch to auto - distribution fan operates normally to push heat into the room, regardless of stove or room temperature. There is a caveat to this, if you have your room temp set to 1 (very low) then the distribution blower might shut off because the ESP temperature is below the lowest setting allowed for the distribution blower to run.
> 
> *Room Temp* - The stove is 100% driven by the room temp sensor. The stove will automatically adjust feed and ESP temp to achieve the room temp set point. Once the set point is reached, the stove will slowly throttle up/down to maintain temperature. If it's 20 degrees outside, your heat load is high and the stove will feed more pellets to get the ESP temp hot enough to maintain room temperature set point. If it's 60 degrees outside, the stove will feed as little as possible and keep as low an ESP temp as possible to maintain room temperature. Igniter switch to manual, stove will go into maintenance burn in between calls for heat - prevents igniter cycling, might use a few more pellets in this mode...maybe... Igniter switch to auto, stove will initiate the shut down process in between calls for heat - igniter could cycle several times per day, depends on set point and heat load. If there is a call for heat during the shutdown process, the stove will start feeding pellets provided that the ESP temperature didn't go below the low limit. So, on really cold days, the stove might not shut off, even if it's on auto.
> 
> The key to getting room temp to work is placement or "calibration" of the room temp sensor. This is a tricky subject due to the sheer number of variables that can contribute to success or lack there of. Ideally, you want the tip of the probe in an area that is not subject to drafts, direct sun or areas that could lead to heat soak from the stove or areas that make it tough to calibrate like basement concrete floors. Ideally, you want the probe on an inside wall (no drafts), away from concrete and fairly far from the stove, even if you need to extend the wire. If the probe is where you are, then the stove can work to keep an even temp that works for you. If your set on having the dial temp correspond with the room temp, you will need to experiment for a while until you find the most reliable place for the probe to stay.
> 
> Alternatively, you can place the probe in a "stable" location and simply adjust the temp knob to achieve the most comfortable room temperature. Maybe 78 on the temp knob gives you a steady 72 degrees, no worries, just keep in mind that the probe reads 6 degrees high and do the simple math if you feel like adjusting the temp.
> 
> Either way, you need to be smarter than the probe, since it does nothing more or less than reading the temp where it resides.
> 
> If either option above doesn't suit your needs, you can ditch the way Harman wants you to run the stove and install a simple thermostat to control the room temperature. See my *signature* for details on the Skytach model or see post #8 below or the traditional Harman recommendation.
> 
> And more...
> 
> *Feed Rates* - Feed rate is controlled by the stove ESP. The stove will select a feed rate based on the actual temperature and target call for heat. The larger the temperature delta (actual room temp vs. target room temp), the greater the feed rate will be. 10 degrees would be a large delta and the stove would feed to reach max ESP temp of about 500 degrees depending on stove model. A 2 degree delta might only result in a feed rate of 20 seconds per minute even though the feed rate max dial is set to 4 (or 40 seconds per minute). The stove can vary the feed rate between 2.5 seconds per minute and the max feed rate you set. A feed rate of 6 would represent continuous feeding if the ESP wasn't seeing sufficient temperatures to satisfy the call for heat.When up to temp the stove will regulate itself form 2.5 seconds per minute of feed up to the limit you set.
> 
> Feed rates can lead to incomplete combustion comes in 2 forms:
> 
> 1. Pellets spilling over the edge of the burn pot before they are reduced to ash.
> 2. Smoke.
> 
> Relative to #1 - when you run the stove wide open (stove temp setting at 7), the burning pellets should come no closer than 1 inch from the edge of the burn pot. You should have burning pellets and about 1" of ash before the edge. If pellets are bulging and close to the edge, you might not turn them to ash before spilling over the edge, wasting energy. If the burn line is too close, dial the feed rate back a bit, may by 1/2 of a number (i.e. 3.5 to 3).  The stove doesn't run wide open once everything is up to temp, so this is only for scenarios where, for instance, the room is 65 and you want it 75 degrees or you turn the temp dial all the way clockwise (just don't walk away for too long or you'll bake yourself...).
> 
> Relative to #2 - smoke is also a sign of incomplete combustion, meaning that there is more fuel than air supplied by the combustion blower. This too should be evaluated when the stove is running WIDE OPEN. At night with a flashlight, you'll always see smoke. During the day, smoke is rated based on opacity or how easily you can see through it. Startup might be 50% opacity or fairly heavy smoke. If you are 10% or less (barely visible), that's reasonable and you aren't really wasting anything. If you have to struggle to see it, you're probably good. If you can easily see smoke and your flame is HUGE, try dialing back feed rate a bit to bring the air/fuel mix back into a more efficient range by dialing it back by 1/2 of a number (ie 3.5 to 3). In most cases, you don't want to be below 3 or much above 4. You'll also want to recalibrate after changing brands of pellets since the blend and size of pellet will cause it to burn/feed differently.
> 
> Setting your feed rate too low doesn't save pellets and stove performance will suffer since your inhibiting the ESP from reaching target temps. Setting your feed rate too low is like putting a brick underneath the gas pedal of your car.
> 
> Don't be tempted to set your feed rate too low.
> 
> So there's the facts, interpret away...
> 
> *Cleaning tip* - During your periodic cleaning, turn the knob to "test" while you clean the firebox to evacuate the ash out the chimney vs. into your room.



I have a 2008 p38+ that I just upgraded to the newer style circuit board.  I use the Stove Temp setting since it works better for my particular set up. I followed the recommended feed rate of 4 but it is very hot with a huge flame. I am now at feed rate 1 and the flame is smaller but it's still hot. Maybe I have a bad board or the potentiometer dials are off. Will play around more tomorrow. Thanks for the tutorial.


----------



## TonyVideo

If it is too hot turn it down.


----------



## TonyVideo

Feed rate does not adjust the temp. Leave the feed rate at 4.


----------



## breed5577

TonyVideo said:


> If it is too hot turn it down.


It's down to 


TonyVideo said:


> Feed rate does not adjust the temp. Leave the feed rate at 4.


OK will do. It's hard to break the habit from my old board.  Thanks


----------



## breed5577

TonyVideo said:


> If it is too hot turn it down.


I have the p38+ settings in stove mode, 3.5 feed rate and temp setting to 1 and it's way to hot. Granted it was a warm day today in Northern NJ. Still have a medium size flame. House is at 72 which is hot for us. We like it around 68. The old 2 knob board I was able to keep the stove on a low simmer so to speak on the warm days. Do I need to fiddle with the feed rate more. I burn Stove chow from Home Depot. Never had an issue with them.

Thanks,
Barry


----------



## TonyVideo

The feed rate will not lower the flame. Have you ever cleaned the ESP probe? This exhaust probe is the only thing needed in stove mode as it regulates the exhaust temp. Feed rate down all the way will do nothing in maintenance mode. You could crank a window for a few to bring the temp down a little. With a P38 I understand your reluctance to to turn your stove off completely as you would have to manually restart it. These are your only options as far as I know.


----------



## breed5577

The ESP is new so I know it's clean. Maybe it's just how the new board works which is no problem. Just wanted to make sure I was operating it correctly. The p38+ can be a nuisance to light but I use a plumbers blow torch and a small amount of petroleum jelly (.5 tsp) wrapped in a cotton swab the the wife uses fro makeup and stuff that in the burn pot. Lights great all the time. Thanks


----------



## TonyVideo

You could turn down the convection blower all the way down. You may be already be doing this. Not having a 38 I assume you have a auto manual switch but auto side does not work. You could put the stove in room temp mode manual and then turn it all the way down as it would still do a maintenance fire but turn off the convection blower completely until needed.


----------



## breed5577

Great idea. I may actually try to install the thermistor and go into room temp mode to see if that will lower the flame. Kinda of fun to experiment with these stoves. Thanks


----------



## breed5577

Just started the p38+. Feed rate at 3.5, it's on stove mode and the temp is at 2. My flame is huge and the augur is feeding rapidly. Why would it do this if it's on Stove mode where I am controlling the settings.


----------



## Mac McIlvaine

Hi, I've been reading the original post in this thread and many of the later ones. I have over the years replaced a few of the ESP units.

What exactly is in the thing? It doesn't act like a thermocouple when measured. The old one I just replaced is around 200k ohms at room temp and goes down as the temp goes up. The new one reads about 600k and goes down with temp increase.

My first guess was a thermocouple since that's typically what would be chosen for high temp nasty environs.

Any ideas?

Also, was told the ESP units can fail if the draft blower slows with age. Is this correct? (Do they just fail or actually go slower with age?)

Regards,
Mac


----------



## glen1971

Mac McIlvaine said:


> Hi, I've been reading the original post in this thread and many of the later ones. I have over the years replaced a few of the ESP units.
> 
> What exactly is in the thing? It doesn't act like a thermocouple when measured. The old one I just replaced is around 200k ohms at room temp and goes down as the temp goes up. The new one reads about 600k and goes down with temp increase.
> 
> My first guess was a thermocouple since that's typically what would be chosen for high temp nasty environs.
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> Also, was told the ESP units can fail if the draft blower slows with age. Is this correct? (Do they just fail or actually go slower with age?)
> 
> Regards,
> Mac



With the higher temps in the exhaust I'm guessing it is a thermocouple.. They send a signal in millivolts rather than resistance like an rtd...


----------



## bacitup88

Hello. Since this post is great I thought I might ask a question. My Accentra began shutting down after 15 minutes of normal operation. All the lights stay on (no blinking from distro/comustion/feed motor lights) but the stove stops blowing smoke out of the chimney and the stove almost immediatley stops burning (flame shuts down within a minute). I'm running it on stove temp. Any ideas?  Will running it on room temp bypass any functions of the ESP (Maybe thats the issue)?

Thanks in advance



lbcynya said:


> Thanks Mod for correcting the title!
> 
> Now, let's have some fun and stay warm!
> 
> *How your stove works* - The facts are pretty straightforward, but how you get people to properly interpret the facts is the hard part. It's your toy, run it the way you want as long as you understand what's going on behind the scenes! Everything noted below is based on me seeing what the stove is doing via the Harman diagnostic tool during the various operation methods. I get to see feed rates, max feed rates, current ESP temps, ESP set temps, room sensor temperatures, room sensor target temperatures, knob positions, switch positions, etc.
> 
> _Here are the facts:_
> 
> *Stove temp* - 100% driven the the ESP (temperature probe in stove exhaust flow). Temp dial corresponds to a fixed ESP temperature. For simplicity, let's assume a setting of 3 = 300 degrees ESP temp. The stove will ramp feed up/down to always be as close to 300 degrees as possible. In stove temp the stove doesn't care what the room temp is, only the ESP temp. The room might be 60 or 90 degrees doesn't matter, all it cares about is maintaining an ESP temp of 300.The stove will not shut off in stove temp regardless of whether the igniter switch is set to auto or manual. Stove temp, switch to manual - I call this fireplace mode. Distribution fan will not turn on unless the temp knob is set to 5 or higher. This is designed to give a nice fire, but not a ton of heat in the room. Most goes up the chimney. Stove temp, switch to auto - distribution fan operates normally to push heat into the room, regardless of stove or room temperature. There is a caveat to this, if you have your room temp set to 1 (very low) then the distribution blower might shut off because the ESP temperature is below the lowest setting allowed for the distribution blower to run.
> 
> *Room Temp* - The stove is 100% driven by the room temp sensor. The stove will automatically adjust feed and ESP temp to achieve the room temp set point. Once the set point is reached, the stove will slowly throttle up/down to maintain temperature. If it's 20 degrees outside, your heat load is high and the stove will feed more pellets to get the ESP temp hot enough to maintain room temperature set point. If it's 60 degrees outside, the stove will feed as little as possible and keep as low an ESP temp as possible to maintain room temperature. Igniter switch to manual, stove will go into maintenance burn in between calls for heat - prevents igniter cycling, might use a few more pellets in this mode...maybe... Igniter switch to auto, stove will initiate the shut down process in between calls for heat - igniter could cycle several times per day, depends on set point and heat load. If there is a call for heat during the shutdown process, the stove will start feeding pellets provided that the ESP temperature didn't go below the low limit. So, on really cold days, the stove might not shut off, even if it's on auto.
> 
> The key to getting room temp to work is placement or "calibration" of the room temp sensor. This is a tricky subject due to the sheer number of variables that can contribute to success or lack there of. Ideally, you want the tip of the probe in an area that is not subject to drafts, direct sun or areas that could lead to heat soak from the stove or areas that make it tough to calibrate like basement concrete floors. Ideally, you want the probe on an inside wall (no drafts), away from concrete and fairly far from the stove, even if you need to extend the wire. If the probe is where you are, then the stove can work to keep an even temp that works for you. If your set on having the dial temp correspond with the room temp, you will need to experiment for a while until you find the most reliable place for the probe to stay.
> 
> Alternatively, you can place the probe in a "stable" location and simply adjust the temp knob to achieve the most comfortable room temperature. Maybe 78 on the temp knob gives you a steady 72 degrees, no worries, just keep in mind that the probe reads 6 degrees high and do the simple math if you feel like adjusting the temp.
> 
> Either way, you need to be smarter than the probe, since it does nothing more or less than reading the temp where it resides.
> 
> If either option above doesn't suit your needs, you can ditch the way Harman wants you to run the stove and install a simple thermostat to control the room temperature. See my *signature* for details on the Skytach model or see post #8 below or the traditional Harman recommendation.
> 
> And more...
> 
> *Feed Rates* - Feed rate is controlled by the stove ESP. The stove will select a feed rate based on the actual temperature and target call for heat. The larger the temperature delta (actual room temp vs. target room temp), the greater the feed rate will be. 10 degrees would be a large delta and the stove would feed to reach max ESP temp of about 500 degrees depending on stove model. A 2 degree delta might only result in a feed rate of 20 seconds per minute even though the feed rate max dial is set to 4 (or 40 seconds per minute). The stove can vary the feed rate between 2.5 seconds per minute and the max feed rate you set. A feed rate of 6 would represent continuous feeding if the ESP wasn't seeing sufficient temperatures to satisfy the call for heat.When up to temp the stove will regulate itself form 2.5 seconds per minute of feed up to the limit you set.
> 
> Feed rates can lead to incomplete combustion comes in 2 forms:
> 
> 1. Pellets spilling over the edge of the burn pot before they are reduced to ash.
> 2. Smoke.
> 
> Relative to #1 - when you run the stove wide open (stove temp setting at 7), the burning pellets should come no closer than 1 inch from the edge of the burn pot. You should have burning pellets and about 1" of ash before the edge. If pellets are bulging and close to the edge, you might not turn them to ash before spilling over the edge, wasting energy. If the burn line is too close, dial the feed rate back a bit, may by 1/2 of a number (i.e. 3.5 to 3).  The stove doesn't run wide open once everything is up to temp, so this is only for scenarios where, for instance, the room is 65 and you want it 75 degrees or you turn the temp dial all the way clockwise (just don't walk away for too long or you'll bake yourself...).
> 
> Relative to #2 - smoke is also a sign of incomplete combustion, meaning that there is more fuel than air supplied by the combustion blower. This too should be evaluated when the stove is running WIDE OPEN. At night with a flashlight, you'll always see smoke. During the day, smoke is rated based on opacity or how easily you can see through it. Startup might be 50% opacity or fairly heavy smoke. If you are 10% or less (barely visible), that's reasonable and you aren't really wasting anything. If you have to struggle to see it, you're probably good. If you can easily see smoke and your flame is HUGE, try dialing back feed rate a bit to bring the air/fuel mix back into a more efficient range by dialing it back by 1/2 of a number (ie 3.5 to 3). In most cases, you don't want to be below 3 or much above 4. You'll also want to recalibrate after changing brands of pellets since the blend and size of pellet will cause it to burn/feed differently.
> 
> Setting your feed rate too low doesn't save pellets and stove performance will suffer since your inhibiting the ESP from reaching target temps. Setting your feed rate too low is like putting a brick underneath the gas pedal of your car.
> 
> Don't be tempted to set your feed rate too low.
> 
> So there's the facts, interpret away...
> 
> *Cleaning tip* - During your periodic cleaning, turn the knob to "test" while you clean the firebox to evacuate the ash out the chimney vs. into your room.


----------



## breed5577

lbcynya said:


> Thanks Mod for correcting the title!
> 
> Now, let's have some fun and stay warm!
> 
> *How your stove works* - The facts are pretty straightforward, but how you get people to properly interpret the facts is the hard part. It's your toy, run it the way you want as long as you understand what's going on behind the scenes! Everything noted below is based on me seeing what the stove is doing via the Harman diagnostic tool during the various operation methods. I get to see feed rates, max feed rates, current ESP temps, ESP set temps, room sensor temperatures, room sensor target temperatures, knob positions, switch positions, etc.
> 
> _Here are the facts:_
> 
> *Stove temp* - 100% driven the the ESP (temperature probe in stove exhaust flow). Temp dial corresponds to a fixed ESP temperature. For simplicity, let's assume a setting of 3 = 300 degrees ESP temp. The stove will ramp feed up/down to always be as close to 300 degrees as possible. In stove temp the stove doesn't care what the room temp is, only the ESP temp. The room might be 60 or 90 degrees doesn't matter, all it cares about is maintaining an ESP temp of 300.The stove will not shut off in stove temp regardless of whether the igniter switch is set to auto or manual. Stove temp, switch to manual - I call this fireplace mode. Distribution fan will not turn on unless the temp knob is set to 5 or higher. This is designed to give a nice fire, but not a ton of heat in the room. Most goes up the chimney. Stove temp, switch to auto - distribution fan operates normally to push heat into the room, regardless of stove or room temperature. There is a caveat to this, if you have your room temp set to 1 (very low) then the distribution blower might shut off because the ESP temperature is below the lowest setting allowed for the distribution blower to run.
> 
> *Room Temp* - The stove is 100% driven by the room temp sensor. The stove will automatically adjust feed and ESP temp to achieve the room temp set point. Once the set point is reached, the stove will slowly throttle up/down to maintain temperature. If it's 20 degrees outside, your heat load is high and the stove will feed more pellets to get the ESP temp hot enough to maintain room temperature set point. If it's 60 degrees outside, the stove will feed as little as possible and keep as low an ESP temp as possible to maintain room temperature. Igniter switch to manual, stove will go into maintenance burn in between calls for heat - prevents igniter cycling, might use a few more pellets in this mode...maybe... Igniter switch to auto, stove will initiate the shut down process in between calls for heat - igniter could cycle several times per day, depends on set point and heat load. If there is a call for heat during the shutdown process, the stove will start feeding pellets provided that the ESP temperature didn't go below the low limit. So, on really cold days, the stove might not shut off, even if it's on auto.
> 
> The key to getting room temp to work is placement or "calibration" of the room temp sensor. This is a tricky subject due to the sheer number of variables that can contribute to success or lack there of. Ideally, you want the tip of the probe in an area that is not subject to drafts, direct sun or areas that could lead to heat soak from the stove or areas that make it tough to calibrate like basement concrete floors. Ideally, you want the probe on an inside wall (no drafts), away from concrete and fairly far from the stove, even if you need to extend the wire. If the probe is where you are, then the stove can work to keep an even temp that works for you. If your set on having the dial temp correspond with the room temp, you will need to experiment for a while until you find the most reliable place for the probe to stay.
> 
> Alternatively, you can place the probe in a "stable" location and simply adjust the temp knob to achieve the most comfortable room temperature. Maybe 78 on the temp knob gives you a steady 72 degrees, no worries, just keep in mind that the probe reads 6 degrees high and do the simple math if you feel like adjusting the temp.
> 
> Either way, you need to be smarter than the probe, since it does nothing more or less than reading the temp where it resides.
> 
> If either option above doesn't suit your needs, you can ditch the way Harman wants you to run the stove and install a simple thermostat to control the room temperature. See my *signature* for details on the Skytach model or see post #8 below or the traditional Harman recommendation.
> 
> And more...
> 
> *Feed Rates* - Feed rate is controlled by the stove ESP. The stove will select a feed rate based on the actual temperature and target call for heat. The larger the temperature delta (actual room temp vs. target room temp), the greater the feed rate will be. 10 degrees would be a large delta and the stove would feed to reach max ESP temp of about 500 degrees depending on stove model. A 2 degree delta might only result in a feed rate of 20 seconds per minute even though the feed rate max dial is set to 4 (or 40 seconds per minute). The stove can vary the feed rate between 2.5 seconds per minute and the max feed rate you set. A feed rate of 6 would represent continuous feeding if the ESP wasn't seeing sufficient temperatures to satisfy the call for heat.When up to temp the stove will regulate itself form 2.5 seconds per minute of feed up to the limit you set.
> 
> Feed rates can lead to incomplete combustion comes in 2 forms:
> 
> 1. Pellets spilling over the edge of the burn pot before they are reduced to ash.
> 2. Smoke.
> 
> Relative to #1 - when you run the stove wide open (stove temp setting at 7), the burning pellets should come no closer than 1 inch from the edge of the burn pot. You should have burning pellets and about 1" of ash before the edge. If pellets are bulging and close to the edge, you might not turn them to ash before spilling over the edge, wasting energy. If the burn line is too close, dial the feed rate back a bit, may by 1/2 of a number (i.e. 3.5 to 3).  The stove doesn't run wide open once everything is up to temp, so this is only for scenarios where, for instance, the room is 65 and you want it 75 degrees or you turn the temp dial all the way clockwise (just don't walk away for too long or you'll bake yourself...).
> 
> Relative to #2 - smoke is also a sign of incomplete combustion, meaning that there is more fuel than air supplied by the combustion blower. This too should be evaluated when the stove is running WIDE OPEN. At night with a flashlight, you'll always see smoke. During the day, smoke is rated based on opacity or how easily you can see through it. Startup might be 50% opacity or fairly heavy smoke. If you are 10% or less (barely visible), that's reasonable and you aren't really wasting anything. If you have to struggle to see it, you're probably good. If you can easily see smoke and your flame is HUGE, try dialing back feed rate a bit to bring the air/fuel mix back into a more efficient range by dialing it back by 1/2 of a number (ie 3.5 to 3). In most cases, you don't want to be below 3 or much above 4. You'll also want to recalibrate after changing brands of pellets since the blend and size of pellet will cause it to burn/feed differently.
> 
> Setting your feed rate too low doesn't save pellets and stove performance will suffer since your inhibiting the ESP from reaching target temps. Setting your feed rate too low is like putting a brick underneath the gas pedal of your car.
> 
> Don't be tempted to set your feed rate too low.
> 
> So there's the facts, interpret away...
> 
> *Cleaning tip* - During your periodic cleaning, turn the knob to "test" while you clean the firebox to evacuate the ash out the chimney vs. into your room.


This new circuit board is driving me nuts. My old p38 board went and did the upgrade. My feed rate is at


bacitup88 said:


> Hello. Since this post is great I thought I might ask a question. My Accentra began shutting down after 15 minutes of normal operation. All the lights stay on (no blinking from distro/comustion/feed motor lights) but the stove stops blowing smoke out of the chimney and the stove almost immediatley stops burning (flame shuts down within a minute). I'm running it on stove temp. Any ideas?  Will running it on room temp bypass any functions of the ESP (Maybe thats the issue)?
> 
> Thanks in advance



Very strange.  Have you tried room temp to see if it does the same? Could be a faulty ESP sensor.


----------



## bacitup88

breed5577 said:


> This new circuit board is driving me nuts. My old p38 board went and did the upgrade. My feed rate is at
> 
> 
> Very strange.  Have you tried room temp to see if it does the same? Could be a faulty ESP sensor.


 
My combustion motor has been sqealing likw a pig for a month so I'm guessing the bearings are shot after 11 years. Gonna replace that this week and then I'll make my way to a new ESP sensor if it doesnt clear up...thanks!


----------



## breed5577

bacitup88 said:


> My combustion motor has been sqealing likw a pig for a month so I'm guessing the bearings are shot after 11 years. Gonna replace that this week and then I'll make my way to a new ESP sensor if it doesnt clear up...thanks!


I replaced my combustion motor too. Might as well replace the fan blade as you have to remove it. It was a bear getting the set screw off but a little WD-40 and some choice words helped. Why not order the esp at the same time. you can always return it depending on the company.


----------



## bacitup88

bacitup88 said:


> My combustion motor has been sqealing likw a pig for a month so I'm guessing the bearings are shot after 11 years. Gonna replace that this week and then I'll make my way to a new ESP sensor if it doesnt clear up...thanks!


 
I will probably go down that road as well., but was trying avoid another 100 dollars worth of repair


----------



## bacitup88

bacitup88 said:


> I will probably go down that road as well., but was trying avoid another 100 dollars worth of repair


 
ps...i did soak the bejeepers out of the set screw and it came off fairly easy....or luckily


----------



## breed5577

I hear you. These repairs add up. Good luck


----------



## F4jock

Ok guys, the Feed Rate pot doesn't control temp in Stove Mode, the Room Temp / Stove Temp pot does. Closer to 8 o'clock it is the lower the temp. All the feed rate does is regulate the max possible feed in seconds per minute. This leads to inefficient operation if set too low. When you changed your board did you check dipswitch settings to insure #5 is set correctly? ESP probe is always in the mix no matter what mode you are in. Finally, best nut-loosening solvent out there is called Kroil. Expensive but never failed me yet.


----------



## breed5577

F4jock said:


> Ok guys, the Feed Rate pot doesn't control temp in Stove Mode, the Room Temp / Stove Temp pot does. Closer to 8 o'clock it is the lower the temp. All the feed rate does is regulate the max possible feed in seconds per minute. This leads to inefficient operation if set too low. When you changed your board did you check dipswitch settings? ESP probe is always in the mix no matter what mode you are in. Finally, best nut-loosening solvent out there is called Kroil. Expensive but never failed me yet.



Had to switch to Room Mode since Stove Mode was baking me out of the house. Simple was not working. Even at the 1 setting was too hot. Hooked up the sensor for Room Mode and have never been happier. Works to perfection. Coming from the old style circuit board I had no experience in this mode. Glad I did the upgrade. My Dist blower only runs a quarter of the time now too.


----------



## F4jock

breed5577 said:


> Had to switch to Room Mode since Stove Mode was baking me out of the house. Simple was not working. Even at the 1 setting was too hot. Hooked up the sensor for Room Mode and have never been happier. Works to perfection. Coming from the old style circuit board I had no experience in this mode. Glad I did the upgrade. My Dist blower only runs a quarter of the time now too.


Interesting. I've heard that the room temp sensor needs to be hooked up no matter on the newer boards. Don't know as I always run in Room. You might try Stove again just to see if there is any difference. Also depending on ESP genre dipswitch 5's position needs to be checked.


----------



## breed5577

Your correct on the sensor needs to be hooked up. I never knew that before. With a combo of dealer techs and the tech speaking to Harman direct and me tinkering around the stove, it's humming along fine.  That's one advantage the Englander owners have is a direct line to great tech support. I would not rule out owning one in the future.


----------



## bacitup88

breed5577 said:


> I hear you. These repairs add up. Good luck


 
OK, so I put in the combustion motor and it works great. I turned it on, no squeals, but.....the feed motor is not kicking on. The light for the feed motor goes on (all modes including test) but the motor doesnt engage. If I jump power to the feed motor it works fine...Are we back to the ESP probe?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## F4jock

bacitup88 said:


> OK, so I put in the combustion motor and it works great. I turned it on, no squeals, but.....the feed motor is not kicking on. The light for the feed motor goes on (all modes including test) but the motor doesnt engage. If I jump power to the feed motor it works fine...Are we back to the ESP probe?
> 
> Thanks in advance!


Sounds more like a permissive, vacuum or lid switch.


----------



## bacitup88

Vacuum (differential) switch it was!   Got it today ($ 50) and works like a champ!  Thanks all. Great info and huge $$$ saver!


----------



## F4jock

bacitup88 said:


> Vacuum (differential) switch it was!   Got it today ($ 50) and works like a champ!  Thanks all. Great info and huge $$$ saver!


Glad we could help. Hope it's working like a good Harman should!


----------



## F4jock

breed5577 said:


> Your correct on the sensor needs to be hooked up. I never knew that before. With a combo of dealer techs and the tech speaking to Harman direct and me tinkering around the stove, it's humming along fine.  That's one advantage the Englander owners have is a direct line to great tech support. I would not rule out owning one in the future.


You can also call Harman directly for tech support. 800 number is on their website. Hit 3 and 3 when connected.


----------



## bacitup88

while I'm on a roll I thought I might ask one more question. Only low blower works (for about a year now). Changed hi/low switch but  no difference. When you move switch to hi position the blower just stops until you move back to low position (even with new switch). It isnt the end of the world for now, but my fear is low will also eventually stop and so will my options to run the stove. Thanks again


----------



## F4jock

bacitup88 said:


> while I'm on a roll I thought I might ask one more question. Only low blower works (for about a year now). Changed hi/low switch but  no difference. When you move switch to hi position the blower just stops until you move back to low position (even with new switch). It isnt the end of the world for now, but my fear is low will also eventually stop and so will my options to run the stove. Thanks again


Well it's possible that the new switch is bad. If not blower motor may have a bad winding or It could be voltage source for high fan operation has failed. I'd start simple with a voltage measurement at the switch. If it's good jump the switch on the high side and see if the motor works or you can check continuity through the switch. If you have voltage and the switch is good then it's likely the motor if it's wired directly off the switch. don't know enough about the circuit to comment decisively on that though.


----------



## bacitup88

thanks again!


----------



## Rhickmann

I have a Harman XXV that we have had for about 5 years with no problems.  we run the stove in room temp and have since we got it. Lately I've noticed the blower cycling on and off. It used to blow high until the room would warm up then it would cycle to a lower rate. Now it just goes from high to low then cycles back up to high sometimes up and down within minutes. Any clue as to why it would do this?


----------



## TonyVideo

You should make a new post as more people would see it vs tacking onto a specific thread.


----------



## bacitup88

OK. Saga continues. Now combustion motor and vaccum switch replaced which feeds the pellets, but sporadically getting slow shut down with 6 blinking lights......possible ESP probe gone bad? I have a spare..was thinking of throwing it in tomorrow. This happens on both stove and room temps and can be 24 hours apart or 2 hours apart..no rhyme or reason


----------



## bacitup88

shortened the length of the exhaust pipe (I had it at 8 feet with a bend for 10 years, but apparently this isnt the best for the ESP sensor. Its 2 feet outside now and seems to be less quirky...


----------



## gfreek

bacitup88, did you ever replace your ESP ?


----------



## bacitup88

yes...sorry if i omitted that


----------



## bacitup88

also just did the circuit board....apparently I'm now gonna dive into the auger motor/slide plate and de-gunk it (from another suggestion from another post)


----------



## gfreek

So I assume it 's still not running correctly


----------



## bacitup88

that would be correct.....burning for 30 mins and 6 blinks...apparently the hopper slide/auger get "gummed up".  With what I dont know


----------



## bacitup88

does anyone know the best way to access the hopper slide area?  I'm assuming its around the auger on the harmen accentra...thanks


----------



## bacitup88

jumped out the vacuum switch (yes the NEW one) and its working great now......someone please shoot me

Does anyone know what the risk is running the stove without the vaccum switch?


----------



## gfreek

The vacuum switch  or low draft sensor, senses draft  in the firebox..  If the door is not shut, ash door, or hopper lid, or if the exhaust is blocked, or bad combustion motor, then it won't feed pellets.. It's a safety feature.. maybe the vacuum line is plugged or leaks..Also check for plugged "muffler " in the hopper, this senses pressure in the hopper and is connected by hose to the vacuum switch..


----------



## bacitup88

gfreek said:


> The vacuum switch  or low draft sensor, senses draft  in the firebox..  If the door is not shut, ash door, or hopper lid, or if the exhaust is blocked, or bad combustion motor, then it won't feed pellets.. It's a safety feature.. maybe the vacuum line is plugged or leaks..Also check for plugged "muffler " in the hopper, this senses pressure in the hopper and is connected by hose to the vacuum switch..


 

I think I'm just going to leave the vacuum switch out of the loop. In an 11 year old stove there's probably 4 - 5 leaks that would trip it off and I'm kind of tired of chasing my tail....plus the room if finally warm for the first time in 3 weeks


----------



## cooler

Maybe another harman accentra question?  My stove has a smokey smell. I have replaced and I have had the dealer replace the exhaust pipes, observe it, reseal exhaust.  I'm pretty sure the exhaust has been taken care of. 
The smell is still there.  I have checked and taped windows, anything I can think of.  I have replaced the door seal and looked at the others.  I don't see any smoke, but I smell it.

Dealer says the heat exchanger can't leak to room because of the negative pressure caused by cumbustion fan.  I understand this general concept but is that too broad a staement?  We are missing something.  Have you seen anything like this?  Any ideas to try?  thanks much!


----------



## kinsmanstoves

Check your auger tube for a hole like this.

Eric


----------



## cooler

I see, it is a gap, I'll check for that once I clean it good.  Did you get a smoke smell from this leak?  Very interested to hear


----------



## kinsmanstoves

Usually it will cause to much air to enter the unit and this will cause creosote to form.  Some people don't get a smell and some do.

Eric


----------



## Orson_Yancey

I purchased a Harman P68 in June 2014.  During the shoulder seasons, I want to run it on minimal heat output and 
pellet consumption.  I have been running it on Constant Burn setting #1.  I was wondering if there is some setting even of lower heat output than Constant Burn #1 and still to keep the flame so as not to put wear on the igniter going through numerous fire-up cycles.   I tried Room Temperature setting 50* with the igniter switch set set to manual, to keep a maintenance fire.  From what I can tell; the flame size, heat output, and pellet consumption seems about the same as Constant Burn setting #1.  What settings would produce the minimal heat output and pellet consumption?


----------



## TonyVideo

I think you found it. The lowest is a maintenance burn. Also posting a new post would get you more Posts since this is a sticky for info only.


----------



## Central NH

Orson_Yancey said:


> I purchased a Harman P68 in June 2014.  During the shoulder seasons, I want to run it on minimal heat output and
> pellet consumption.  I have been running it on Constant Burn setting #1.  I was wondering if there is some setting even of lower heat output than Constant Burn #1 and still to keep the flame so as not to put wear on the igniter going through numerous fire-up cycles.   I tried Room Temperature setting 50* with the igniter switch set set to manual, to keep a maintenance fire.  From what I can tell; the flame size, heat output, and pellet consumption seems about the same as Constant Burn setting #1.  What settings would produce the minimal heat output and pellet consumption?


The P68 is a chow hound.  I use my XXV during fall and spring.  I have never found a way to burn less than a bag a day with the P68.  But then again its a 68000btu monster meant to heat not warm your area.


----------



## TonyVideo

showlow2u said:


> I have a p68 harman and I purchased a new auger motor now the manual does not show which screws to undue for the replacement I looked on the internet but could not find anything now I stumbled across your sight and signed up hoping I could find additional information. Just hate to call the repairman every time stove dosent start. I welcome all help my part harman auguer motor p68 part 9062520 a1106t harmon auguer motor.



You would be better off starting a new post than on this old thread. More people would see it. I have never had to replace mine yet.


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## begreen

I moved it to a new post. Gonna close off this one from 2012.


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