# Calling All Bis Tradition/Lennox Montecito Estate Owners



## builderbob (Jul 3, 2007)

What has been your experience with the Bis Tradition/Lennox Montecito Estate zc woodburning fireplace?

Most liked features?   Things that bug you?  Satisfaction level overall with the fireplace?  Did you install the blower unit for outside air or inside air?  What are the things a prospective purchaser would want or need to know?  Any special operating tricks?   Parts quality so far?  etc etc etc.

Thanks for any input you can give us.

builderbob


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## begreen (Jul 3, 2007)

Maybe you could ask your dealers for some local references? This has been beat on for quite awhile here.


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## builderbob (Jul 3, 2007)

The Bis Tradition has been beat on for quite a while here?   Show me where please?  I would like to see the comments on the Bis Tradition/Montecito Estate woodburners?

I thought this was a forum for sharing of information.  Pardon me if I was wrong.  I assumed for the questions I asked, there could be dozens of readers or future readers who might have the same questions, and they could then find the discussion here.

Sorry if I am boring you.

builderbob (not a building professional, and way not a fireplace profesional) 
Just a putz trying to get ready to drop 5 or 10 grand on the hearth industry


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## begreen (Jul 3, 2007)

NO, BB, but there are only a few BIS owners here. I think you'll have more productive research if you call the regional stove shops to see if they have the fireplaces on display and for references of recent BIS stove sales. You'll also find out if they've sold any in the past 3 years, which might be equally important. It sounds like you've visited a lot of dealers. If I might suggest, use the phone first to find out if they have a ZC stoves on display. 

I'm not trying to discourage you, just trying to get you to be practical in finding the info you need asap. The internet and this forum are not the holy grail for all needs. I made a few long distance calls for you today just to see where an FPX44 is on display. Hope that info helps.


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## builderbob (Jul 3, 2007)

OK, thanks.  I appreciate your efforts, and it probably is good (as well as timesaving) advice.  If we can't find anything in the Portland area, we may take another trip up to the Seattle area to look.  Thanks for the reference to Rich's in Bellevue on the FPX 44.

In the meantime, if there are any Bis/Lennox owners here, please share your input.  Or dealers who have heard back from customers on the Tradition/Montecito Estate model. 

I know this forum is not the holy grail and end-all and be-all of knowledge, but in another thread or earlier post, someone suggested I put the posts up on specific models and ask my questions---so that is what I am doing.  A question unasked is automatically a question unanswered.  Every little bit of input, where-ever from, does help.  

We have not gone to a house designer yet to have the house plans drawn up.  So we are in the enviable position of being able to wait for lots of questions to get answered (or know there are not likely to be answers) before we hit the "decision deadline freight train" inherent in having a house built. 

Bis Tradition/Lennox Montecito Estate owners-----come out of hiding!!  Or even just satisfied Bis/Lennox owners of other models.  Thanks for eveyone's input, on whatever brand and model.

builderbob


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## burntime (Jul 3, 2007)

My brother and I installed the bis in his 3 year old home...1500 square feet in Wisconsin.  He has had it for 2 years now and burns 3 cords to keep the house warm (hot really) and he loves it.  You need to feed it dry wood but  the heat output is something like 55k btus if I remember right.  Great secondary burn but it has a small firebox.


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## builderbob (Jul 3, 2007)

Thanks for the input, burntime.

Would your brother's fireplace be the BIS Ultima?  Or the Bis Ultra (I think it's called)?

builderbob


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## burntime (Jul 3, 2007)

Its been some time.  I called him and he was not sure either.  It works great but the firebox is a bit small.  Go slightly larger than you think you need in order to heat the home.  Its no fun to have to burn it at full potential all the time.  If he can find the paperwork I will post it...honestly though, he is not a paperwork type of guy.


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## builderbob (Jul 3, 2007)

Maybe he used the paperwork to kindle the fire one morning!!


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## burntime (Jul 3, 2007)

Honestly I think that is what he did with the first fire ;~)  He definitely is not a details guy.


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## 'bert (Sep 20, 2007)

Not sure if you are still interested in this BB, but I have a SC BIS Ultra in my home and I love it.  I agree with others who said the firebox is a bit small, but it heats our home well enough to keep the furnace off.


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## builderbob (Sep 20, 2007)

northof54th said:
			
		

> Not sure if you are still interested in this BB, but I have a SC BIS Ultra in my home and I love it.  I agree with others who said the firebox is a bit small, but it heats our home well enough to keep the furnace off.



Thanks for the comments.  I am still very interested.  Good to know you have had a good experience with your BIS.


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## dskup (Oct 4, 2007)

BuilderBob-

It's been a long time since you started your exploratory posts (which I found very interesting).  Did you ever purchase a fireplace?  Which one?  I am going down exactly the same research path, and am now teetering between the NZ6000 and Montecito.


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## builderbob (Oct 4, 2007)

dskup said:
			
		

> BuilderBob-
> 
> It's been a long time since you started your exploratory posts (which I found very interesting).  Did you ever purchase a fireplace?  Which one?  I am going down exactly the same research path, and am now teetering between the NZ6000 and Montecito.



Not yet.  We have not yet finalized our house plans, so have not started construction.

Both the Napoleon NZ6000 and the Lennox Montecito Estate are nice looking.  I ruled out the NZ6000 from our finalist list because it is an "EPA Exempt" unit, while the Lennox (and its clone the Bis Tradition) is "EPA II Compliant".  This distinction may be irrelevant to some folks, perhaps yourself.  I found I wanted to "know" if my firplace would be a big polluter or not in terms of particulates.  With EPA II Complaint, I know what tests showed for emissions.  With the "EPA Exempt", I do not know since "exempt" means they didn;t have to do those tests (or at least publish anything).  So, you have to decide if that criteria means anything to you or not.

I was also bothered on the NZ6000 by need for 2 large--6"--outside air ducts as well as a combustion air duct (similar to FPX by Travis).  That means lots of cold air into the home, maybe a cold air infiltration problem when unit not being fired.  We intend to use for ambiance on occasion, not for 24/7 heating.  So I worry about all the time when fireplace is idle about cold air coming in.  With 24/7 heating or close to that, that would be almost no concern.  Again, decide how you would be using your fireplace.

Both NZ6000 and Montecito Estate are nice looking units.  I admit, I was "in love" with the NZ6000 based soley on sex appeal at one point.  Then my head starting interfering.  If you have not yet searched the forum for NZ6000 thread, there was lots of discussion there.

We are also considering the Kozyheat Z42 fireplace on our finalist list.

Hope this helps.  Also, if you have come across any interesting factoids in your research on "any" units, be sure to share.  Also if you have formed impressions/opinions, be sure to share those as well.

BTB


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## seaken (Oct 4, 2007)

For what it is worth, I am a BIS and FPX dealer. We have sold many BIS units over the years and our customers like them. We have sold less FPX units because we live in a very cold environment and most of our fireplace customers are weekend burners. The BIS units work best for us. The complaint about firebox size has come up several times. That won't be an issue with the Tradition, it has a huge firebox.

Sean


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## builderbob (Oct 4, 2007)

seaken said:
			
		

> For what it is worth, I am a BIS and FPX dealer. We have sold many BIS units over the years and our customers like them. We have sold less FPX units because we live in a very cold environment and most of our fireplace customers are weekend burners. The BIS units work best for us. The complaint about firebox size has come up several times. That won't be an issue with the Tradition, it has a huge firebox.
> 
> Sean



Thanks for that info.  I had started wondering on the FPX and using one for only occassional ambiance burns (rather than 24/7 heating), if I was perhaps overstating or inventing a cold air infiltration problem---maybe where it was in fact no real "big" problem. 

Do I correctly take it from your remarks on the "very cold environment and your customers being only weekend burners", that cold air infiltration into the home is perhaps much less noticable with the BIS vs the FPX in such circumstances? 

Have you sold many BIS Tradition units?  Any particular comments on that model?  Practical "good-things-to-know" about installs or operations or maintenance?

BTB


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## seaken (Oct 6, 2007)

BTB said:
			
		

> Thanks for that info.  I had started wondering on the FPX and using one for only occassional ambiance burns (rather than 24/7 heating), if I was perhaps overstating or inventing a cold air infiltration problem---maybe where it was in fact no real "big" problem.
> 
> Do I correctly take it from your remarks on the "very cold environment and your customers being only weekend burners", that cold air infiltration into the home is perhaps much less noticable with the BIS vs the FPX in such circumstances?
> 
> ...



In our experience, the BIS is better in cold weather environments where cold air infiltration and condensation are an issue. The BIS supports a packed insulated chimney system which is better in these circumstances. The air-cooled chimneys have been a problem in both cases.

We have installed about three Tradition models. They are bigger and heavier than the other models and use a larger OD chimney. But they operate the same. The Tradition has a few additional features, such as a timed air control. Also, the face bolts on with a unique set of screws and ends caps. I think it will be a good choice for you.

Sean


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## builderbob (Oct 6, 2007)

seaken said:
			
		

> .......The Tradition has a few additional features, such as a timed air control. Also, the face bolts on with a unique set of screws and ends caps. I think it will be a good choice for you.
> 
> Sean



Thanks for the info.

The faceplate comments bring up another question regardless of which brand ZC woodburner one gets.  Another thread here at the forum recently had questioned about sealing the front edges of the faceplate with silicon caulk to the front fireplace enclosure rockwork.

That started me wondering.  I would presume most brands ZC woodburner fireplaces , if one needed to get in to replace/service blower motor or other parts, one might well "have to" remove the faceplate.  If one "has to" remove the faceplate, then does one still want to have the edges of the faceplate sealed with caulking to the masonry/stone/facing of the fireplace enclosure?

If one does NOT seal the edges of the faceplate, then one wonders about coldair infiltration from inside the enclosure when not burning.

Maybe it is no big deal to seal the faceplate with caulking, then if you do have to pull the faceplate out, just yank it and the caulking out all together.  Then reseal the faceplate with new caulking when reinstalling?

BTB


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## Gooserider (Oct 7, 2007)

I think the faceplate sealing question you mentioned was mostly talking about on an insert BTB, not a ZC fireplace.  W/ an insert you are going into an existing fireplace so you need to seal up that opening, and the difficulty of doing so is one reason Elk is so big on blockoff plates.

W/ a ZC you have less of an issue because you will be dealing with a structure made to fit the unit, rather than trying to retrofit an insert into an existing fireplace.

Gooserider


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## builderbob (Oct 7, 2007)

Gooserider said:
			
		

> I think the faceplate sealing question you mentioned was mostly talking about on an insert BTB, not a ZC fireplace.  W/ an insert you are going into an existing fireplace so you need to seal up that opening, and the difficulty of doing so is one reason Elk is so big on blockoff plates.
> 
> W/ a ZC you have less of an issue because you will be dealing with a structure made to fit the unit, rather than trying to retrofit an insert into an existing fireplace.
> 
> Gooserider



That other thread was about Travis FPX--Fireplace Xtrordinaire 36.  I thought that was a ZC woodburning fireplace, but I guess Travis makes inserts and gas units and other stuff as well.  Maybe I didn't read that post closely enough or maybe I assumed wrongly.

I can see where an "insert" would have different issues than a "ZC fireplace".

BTB


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## seaken (Oct 9, 2007)

BTB said:
			
		

> Gooserider said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes, the 36 Elite is a ZCFP, just like the BIS. I don't think it's a good idea to try and seal the plate to the masonry or tile, but to each their own. Sealing the plate to the tile won't stop cold air infiltration. The face is perforated to allow for air circulation. Stopping cold air infiltration starts much further back in the install process. Don't worry about sealing the face. But, the face must go on and off without interference so make sure the stone or tile is set outside the face dimensions a little or just behind the back of the faceplate. The Tradition comes with a face template as part of the package.

Sean


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## builderbob (Oct 9, 2007)

seaken said:
			
		

> Yes, the 36 Elite is a ZCFP, just like the BIS. I don't think it's a good idea to try and seal the plate to the masonry or tile, but to each their own. Sealing the plate to the tile won't stop cold air infiltration. The face is perforated to allow for air circulation. Stopping cold air infiltration starts much further back in the install process. Don't worry about sealing the face. But, the face must go on and off without interference so make sure the stone or tile is set outside the face dimensions a little or just behind the back of the faceplate. The Tradition comes with a face template as part of the package.
> 
> Sean



Thanks Sean for all the info.  Very helpful.  All the hearth and stove customers in your neck of the woods are fortunate to have you around there.  

BTB


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