# Help with Tree ID Please



## PeteD (Jun 21, 2011)

I have done 4 or 5 on-line tree identifiers and they never end up with the correct tree.  Wanted to ID this backyard tree for a few years.  Like an ash/sumac/locust of some sort, but none I find seem to match exactly.

Pictures are worth a thousand words (these are all the same exact tree):



















TIA,
Pete


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## smokinj (Jun 21, 2011)

Ash


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## TreePointer (Jun 21, 2011)

12+ leaflets per leaf?
Terminal leaflet often missing?  
Alternate (not opposite) leaf pattern?  

I'm leaning toward black walnut.

(As always, pictures can be deceiving and I reserve the right to be wrong, LOL!)

Some helpers:
http://www.hort.purdue.edu/ext/senior/fruits/blackwalnut5.htm
http://www.anr.msu.edu/robertsd/ash/ashtree_id.html


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## PeteD (Jun 21, 2011)

These compound leaves alternate which seems to rule out ash from my research?

Not sure about terminal leaf, I seem to have one in the photos, though.

The wood from a few branches I trimmed is quite heavy too.


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## TreePointer (Jun 21, 2011)

Also, bark looks more like black walnut to me. 

Terminal *leaflet *(not leaf) may or may not there with black walnut.  It often will be missing.


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## PeteD (Jun 21, 2011)

I should add that I believe the fruit from this tree is a relatively small pod of some sort - none present yet this year, so my memory is foggy on exact appearance.


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## smokinj (Jun 21, 2011)

TreePointer said:
			
		

> 12+ leaflets per leaf?
> Terminal leaflet often missing?
> Alternate (not opposite) leaf pattern?
> 
> ...



Yep. ANd walnuts are on now! Oh and them leaves are not thin enough to be walnut either. (Honey locust maybe) But put my money on ash!  :coolhmm:


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## PeteD (Jun 21, 2011)

Does honey locust have spikes?

This tree does not have any...


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## TreePointer (Jun 21, 2011)

PeteD said:
			
		

> Does honey locust have spikes?
> 
> This tree does not have any...



There are thorned and "thornless" varieties of black locust and honey locust trees.  

I have many ash, walnut, and locust trees on my property.  With certainty, that is not a black locust or honey locust.


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## CJRages (Jun 21, 2011)

Pecan?

Your third pic shows where a branch was cut off? That wood looks orange to me - so doubt it is black walnut... Also if it were BW you would have noticed their fruit is very distinct (round, green, and not to mention the smell - not podlike at all)  :lol:


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## smokinj (Jun 21, 2011)

PeteD said:
			
		

> Does honey locust have spikes?
> 
> This tree does not have any...




Black locust has thorn under the bark and after looking more and help from you I change to black locust......  Seed pods


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## smokinj (Jun 21, 2011)

CJRages said:
			
		

> Pecan?
> 
> Your third pic shows where a branch was cut off? That wood looks orange to me - so doubt it is black walnut... Also if it were BW you would have noticed their fruit is very distinct (round, green, and not to mention the smell - not podlike at all)  :lol:
> 
> Pecan fruiting:




lol black walnut is black with walnuts on it, thats bl


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## TreePointer (Jun 21, 2011)

As I stated, pics can be deceiving.  I see what I think is leaves without terminal leaflet on some (indicating black walnut) and also the bark looks like it IMO.  However, I do agree the *leaflets *in some pics look a little wide for black walnut, but some leaflets can be wide and it could be lack of size reference.  

Black locust leaflets are rounded (no points) and that bark is not nearly deeply and largely furrowed as a black locust would be..  Pods are an easy indicator for locust, but I don't think the tree in question has pods (in spite of the OP's recollection)--it looks like a walnut family tree (walnut, pecan, hickory).

Also, black walnut trees don't always produce walnuts--especially for the first couple decades (give or take a a few years) of the tree's life.


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## smokinj (Jun 21, 2011)

TreePointer said:
			
		

> As I stated, pics can be deceiving.  I see what I think is leaves without terminal leaflet on some (black walnut) and also the bark looks like it.  However, I do agree the *leaflets *in some pics look a little wide for black walnut, but some leaflets can be wide and it could be lack of size reference.
> 
> Black locust leaflets are rounded (no points) and that bark is not nearly deeply and largely furrowed as a black locust would be..  Pods are an easy indicator for locust, but I don't think the tree in question has pods (in spite of the OP's recollection)--it looks like a walnut family tree (walnut, pecan, hickory).



Post #5


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## TreePointer (Jun 21, 2011)

smokinjay said:
			
		

> Yep. ANd walnuts are on now! Oh and them leaves are not thin enough to be walnut either. (Honey locust maybe) But put my money on ash!  :coolhmm:



Black walnut trees donâ€™t always produce walnutsâ€”especially for the first couple decades (give or take a a few years) of the treeâ€™s life.  After that, walnut production can vary drastically from year to year.

Neither black locust or honey locust have pointed leaflets.

Aren't there too many leaflets for ash?


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## PeteD (Jun 21, 2011)

Definitely has pods but look like ash pods.  I would be convinced of ash but for the alternating leaflets.  Maybe there is a variety of ash with alternating leaflets (not according to searches I have done)?

Heartwood is not black, more orangy-brown.

Very familiar with black locust; this is not black locust.  Black locust around me has more rounded leaflets and much longer pods than this tree.

"Pollen stringers" (not sure of technical name) were distinctive and about 2 to 3 inches long.  Looked like many little mini-florets of broccoli on shaft, but more golden/greenish color.


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## TreePointer (Jun 21, 2011)

"Pollen stringers" = catkins.


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## PeteD (Jun 21, 2011)

Thanks for the catkins term.  I should have grabbed a photo of them when they were fresh a couple of weeks ago.


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## smokinj (Jun 21, 2011)

PeteD said:
			
		

> Definitely has pods but look like ash pods.  I would be convinced of ash but for the alternating leaflets.  Maybe there is a variety of ash with alternating leaflets (not according to searches I have done)?
> 
> Heartwood is not black, more orangy-brown.
> 
> ...



If you know what it is not. Then ash first guess.  :coolhmm: Just the only thing left! lol You will never forget when you have a walnut tree around. Mine all have walnuts already and a bumper crop with all the rain.


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## CountryBoy19 (Jun 22, 2011)

Man this one is tough... the only thing in my mind that doesn't go well with all the others is "pod-like" fruit. If we could change the leaf photos or the fruit description then it would be easier.

Pod-like fruit would be more like a locust or ash. This is NOT a locust, and doesn't seem like Ash to me based upon the leaf photos.
This is an ash seed, it's like the helicopter seeds of maple trees.





The bark is definitely not locust, looks like ash or possibly a hickory family (not shagbark though).
The leaves definitely look like something in the hickory family but "pod-like" fruit doesn't fit. The young leaves look exactly like those on my Pecan trees at home. Catkins like small florets of broccolli all on a shaft is definitely hickory-like.
Here is a picture of a hickory catkin




and pecan catkin





The lack of fruit on this tree doesn't really tell us much. Many pecan varieties bear alternately. They bear a large crop one year and no crop the next.


Ash much as I want to agree with others, I must say this is not an ash tree. This tree is in the hickory family and you're just mistaken on the pod-like fruit.


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## Brewmonster (Jun 22, 2011)

Have you ruled out _Ailanthus_?


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## PeteD (Jun 22, 2011)

Examined the tree this morning again.  Will post some photos tomorrow (need cable to download).

Made an interesting discovery.  Overall, the compound leaves on this tree tend to be more opposite than alternating.  My photo in the OP probably shows a leaf containing leaflets with the most offset of any of the ones I can easily see on the tree.  As a result, I would say the leaves are actually opposite (most look opposite) and not alternating = ASH.  Also, every leaf I could see did have a terminal leaflet on the end.

I also have an Arbor Day-purchased black walnut which I looked at this morning too.  One or two leaves looked very similar to my photo above in terms of a slight offset to the leaflets that does not quite look perfectly opposite.  However, on the black walnut, these were the closest to being opposite as could be found on the tree.  The other leaves were very clearly alternating.

I think the moral of this story is that one leaf is not sufficient to make a judgment on opposite/alternating leaflets.  Rather, an evaluation of many leaves is needed because there is some variation in the growth habit from leaf to leaf.  I did not realize the possible extent of this variation from the guides.

Any way to tell what kind of ash if I get some fruit this year?  (the ash pods people have posted look very much like what I remember on this tree also)


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## oldspark (Jun 22, 2011)

I believe I have seen that type of tree on my place with the new pictures you show so I am thinking White Ash, I can look later and see if mine are the same. Not sure about the long dangling thingies though. I have no idea what I am talking about but so never mind, still think the pod things look familar. I need to read the posts before I post. :sick:


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## TreePointer (Jun 22, 2011)

Yes, the samara ("seed pods") of different ash types have different shapes.  Also, buds and leaf scars can get you a good ID.

Here's a link:
http://ohioline.osu.edu/for-fact/0055.html


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## Adios Pantalones (Jun 22, 2011)

smokinjay said:
			
		

> PeteD said:
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The leaves don't look like locust at all.


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## smokinj (Jun 22, 2011)

Adios Pantalones said:
			
		

> smokinjay said:
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Yea it didnt to me either but post 5 lead me to that! Ash is what I first thought and still think. :cheese: The far away pic on post one looks a little like honey locust.


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## Adios Pantalones (Jun 22, 2011)

It's not ash.  leaflets on ash are opposite- these are alternate.  The terminal end looks more like pecan than black walnut (black walnut has a terminal leaflet sticking out- pics online look more like pecan)... but then I don't see pecan here, so can't be sure.


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## smokinj (Jun 22, 2011)

Adios Pantalones said:
			
		

> It's not ash.  leaflets on ash are opposite- these are alternate.  The terminal end looks more like pecan than black walnut (black walnut has a terminal leaflet sticking out- pics online look more like pecan)... but then I don't see pecan here, so can't be sure.



No walnuts so thats easy enough on that one. Lets split a couple rounds?  :cheese:


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## oldspark (Jun 22, 2011)

Adios Pantalones said:
			
		

> It's not ash.  leaflets on ash are opposite- these are alternate.  The terminal end looks more like pecan than black walnut (black walnut has a terminal leaflet sticking out- pics online look more like pecan)... but then I don't see pecan here, so can't be sure.


 From his post above, "Overall, the compound leaves on this tree tend to be more opposite than alternating".


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## PeteD (Jun 22, 2011)

Adios Pantalones said:
			
		

> It's not ash.  leaflets on ash are opposite- these are alternate.  The terminal end looks more like pecan than black walnut (black walnut has a terminal leaflet sticking out- pics online look more like pecan)... but then I don't see pecan here, so can't be sure.



As I explained in my last post, most of the leaves are actually opposite.  I just picked a bad one to photograph in original post (my bad).

No pecans around here either.  Definitely not walnut, I have lived here several years and would have been mowing walnuts for some time.  Also no evidence of juglone effect under crown.

I think smokinjay was right from the beginning.

Got some other ones to ID also, may start a new thread tomorrow....


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## CountryBoy19 (Jun 22, 2011)

PeteD said:
			
		

> Adios Pantalones said:
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> 
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I just noticed you're from MA. That would explain the lack of pecans on this pecan tree. They will still grow outside of the typical range, however they will not fruit.

I still think it's a pecan or hickory variant, are there any fruits or catkins of any type on the tree? That would really help us out a lot.


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## PeteD (Jun 23, 2011)

As promised here are more photos of what I am pretty convinced now is either green or white ash, including some dried catkins:































Now to illustrate my point from a previous post leaflet variability in terms of opposite and alternate, here are two photos of leaves from the same purchased Black Walnut:









Thanks to everyone for your input.


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## oldspark (Jun 23, 2011)

If that is Ash (I concur that it is) it is a White Ash.


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## CountryBoy19 (Jun 23, 2011)

I have NEVER seen an ash tree with more than 11 leaflets. One pictured leaf has 15, I do not think this is ash.

Does ash even have catkins? My search tells me no. US Forest service doesn't list Ash as a species with catkins.

Quoted from: http://www.suite101.com/content/catkins-in-spring-a51386

Species with Catkins:

Trees with catkins include those of the Beech family (oaks, chestnuts), the Willow family (willows, aspens, poplars, cottonwoods), the Birch family (birches, alders, hornbeams), the Mulberry family, and the Walnut family (walnuts, hickories). In the Willow family, both male and female flowers occur in the form of catkins, and for most species, a given tree has only one type, either male or female. In the Willow genus (Salix species), many catkins are small and upright, while cottonwoods and aspens have drooping catkins.



If it's ash why is the wood an orange-brown color?
Why so many leaflets?
Why no fruit/seeds? Ash trees should have a bunch of seeds on them, you would see them.


BTW, really appreciate the good photos, I think we'll eventually get it hashed out what species this is... I'm not entirely sure myself.


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## TreePointer (Jun 23, 2011)

I see one with 17 leaflets!  PeteD, are you trolling?  Mixing pictures of different trees?  Not cool if you are.  Just checking.


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## oldspark (Jun 23, 2011)

I will look at my white ash trees when I get a chance to see what they have on them.


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## PeteD (Jun 23, 2011)

TreePointer said:
			
		

> I see one with 17 leaflets!  PeteD, are you trolling?  Mixing pictures of different trees?  Not cool if you are.  Just checking.



Except for the two Black Walnut photos at the end of my previous post (as indicated in the post), these pictures are most definitely all of the same tree.

This tree does not produce fruit every year, but when it does they are relatively short (less than 4 inches) pods.  Certainly not trolling, just looking for help with the apparently hard to ID tree.  Before I did any research, I thought it was ash.  Then I thought could be Sumac family, but that is certainly not the case.

Do ash really not get catkins?


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## blujacket (Jun 23, 2011)

Butternut?


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## golfandwoodnut (Jun 23, 2011)

blujacket said:
			
		

> Butternut?



I was just going to say pig nut Hickory.  I have serval Hickory's that look just like that.


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## PeteD (Jun 23, 2011)

I am starting to doubt my recollection of pods, now, too.  LOL

The photos are all the same tree, though my memory could be faulty...certainly have never had a ton of nuts on the ground under this tree though.

I do have what I think is an ash in another spot on my property (looks much different than subject of this thread):
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/76161/

I will grab a photo of a cut branch and check for features of this tree.


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## PeteD (Jun 23, 2011)

Wow, after looking at pictures of catkins and bark for mature black walnuts, starting to think Treepointer is right.

Bummer of black walnut verdict would be that I have tomatoes near drip line of this tree (first time for tomatoes at this location)!  I may be seeing how this wood splits!


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## TreePointer (Jun 23, 2011)

If you can get a twig and cut a bit of it lengthwise, then you can get a yea or nay on black walnut.  It will have a chambered pith as seen here:
http://owic.oregonstate.edu/pith.php


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## smokinj (Jun 23, 2011)

PeteD said:
			
		

> Wow, after looking at pictures of catkins and bark for mature black walnuts, starting to think Treepointer is right.
> 
> Bummer of black walnut verdict would be that I have tomatoes near drip line of this tree (first time for tomatoes at this location)!  I may be seeing how this wood splits!



Maybe white walut aka butternut, Thats not black thats my money tree!  :lol:


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## PeteD (Jun 23, 2011)

I'll grab some more photos of cut branch and twigs.  Walnut or butternut is going to result in cuttinup'.


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## fishingpol (Jun 23, 2011)

I am going with butternut or black walnut.  Both have catkins and are good carving wood.


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## PeteD (Jun 24, 2011)

Could not see any fruit tonight in dark but trimmed small trig on pole trimmer.  Photos below:


















Will look in AM if the rain isn't too bad for possible fruits...


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## smokinj (Jun 24, 2011)

fishingpol said:
			
		

> I am going with butternut or black walnut.  Both have catkins and are good carving wood.



I have a few walnuts never seen cat skins.......When I say a few well thats the tree we are after 100 percent money! Milled not worth crap as firewood... %-P


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## smokinj (Jun 24, 2011)

PeteD said:
			
		

> Could not see any fruit tonight in dark but trimmed small trig on pole trimmer.  Photos below:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Nice pic's 17 leave white walnut or butter nut! As wet as it is Walnuts would be forum and very visual now!


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## Thistle (Jun 24, 2011)

GolfandWoodNut said:
			
		

> blujacket said:
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Way too dark for Butternut.Odds are its Black Walnut going by that purplish-chocolate hue..Persimmon has to be very old to even have any heartwood,and then its just a small core of nearly black very dense wood.Hence its other not-so common name American Ebony,its a distant cousin of tropical ebonies growing in Asia & parts of Africa.


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## PeteD (Jun 24, 2011)

Here a two sides of a small section that I just cut from a limb that was removed two or three weeks ago.  That is reason for some blackening (I think).  Penny for scale.

Butternut?  Or is this branch too small for dark heartwood???


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## smokinj (Jun 24, 2011)

Thistle said:
			
		

> GolfandWoodNut said:
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Leave are not thin enough and no walnuts its a very big bumper crop for walnuts this year, mine are dropping hard already from the nuts! (Fall is going to suck nuts)


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## PeteD (Jun 24, 2011)

I'm zone 6A in MA, think that rules out persimmon...


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## PeteD (Jun 24, 2011)

Holy cow!  Looked up pignut hickory (had never heard of it).

I have seen these in my yard (not really near this tree, but never knew what they were and I suppose squirrels would spread around?):
http://www.redbubble.com/people/rdshaw/art/792584-pignut-hickory

Not sure that my pith is correct, though.  Or the shape of the leaves...

Never thought this tree would be this hard!


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## smokinj (Jun 24, 2011)

PeteD said:
			
		

> I'm zone 6A in MA, think that rules out persimmon...



persimmon drops heavy furit in the fall about the size of a small cherry every where normally red wen it falls and turns orange and tats when people grap it for pies!


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## TreePointer (Jun 24, 2011)

smokinjay said:
			
		

> Leave are not thin enough and no walnuts its a very big bumper crop for walnuts this year, mine are dropping hard already from the nuts! (Fall is going to suck nuts)



I agree.  Leaflets are not thin enough and leaves don't have the overall look of black walnut.  I like the butternut (white walnut) conclusion FTW!

PeteD, here's a reference stating that butternut also has chambered pith:
http://dendro.cnre.vt.edu/dendrology/syllabus/factsheet.cfm?ID=31


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## CountryBoy19 (Jun 24, 2011)

PeteD said:
			
		

> Do ash really not get catkins?


I'm wondering that myself. I appears that they don't. I don't recall ever seeing them on our ash trees growing up. My coworker said he's never seen catkins on ash trees before. I searched the web for referrences to catkins and ash and the only referrence I found was that Mountain Ash has catkins but mountain ash really isn't an ash anyways, it's in the rose family. So then I searched for lists of trees that do have catkins and the one I posted above was the most complete that I found. And going through US forest service identification pages ash is not under trees with catkins.

I'm stumped now...


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## PeteD (Jun 24, 2011)

Found a (single) fruit!

See pics below, also larger branch from few weeks ago re-sawn this AM.  Don't think leaves look like hickory - all the same size on this tree.

Is butternut only remaining possibility?























Thanks for all of the help everyone!

Pete


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## Woody Stover (Jun 24, 2011)

PeteD said:
			
		

> Holy cow!  Looked up pignut hickory (had never heard of it).


Nope. Pignut usually has only 5 leaflets. Here's a recent thread about a Pignut at my BIL's, with pics of leaf and nut:
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/75666/


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## CountryBoy19 (Jun 24, 2011)

Fruit doesn't look quite like a pecan/hickory nut but it could be.

I'm going to wait for the guys that are more familiar with the other species in that family (butternut etc) to chime in.


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## PeteD (Jun 24, 2011)

Woody Stover said:
			
		

> PeteD said:
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Agree, found small hickory in the woods, totally different look to leaflets and seeing in person makes all of the difference.  Somebody has a pignut around me though, because I have seen those carcasses.


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## Brewmonster (Jun 24, 2011)

Forget persimmon. its leaves are simple, not compound.
Pignut never has more than seven leaflets per leaf.
Pecan does not have chambered pith.
Black walnut seldom has a terminal leaflet, unlike the tree in these pictures, and its pith is pale, not dark.
That leaves (Ta-da!) butternut, _Juglans cinerea_.
It's an attractive tree, but not much good for firewood.

The assertion that "the fruit is a pod" was a red herring.


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## smokinj (Jun 24, 2011)

One thing thats a pretty good size Nut for this time of year....Rules out Hickory imo and Black Walnut will be in clusters and enough on the ground every year to make you fall wading through them.


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## PeteD (Jun 24, 2011)

Brewmonster said:
			
		

> Forget persimmon. its leaves are simple, not compound.
> Pignut never has more than seven leaflets per leaf.
> Pecan does not have chambered pith.
> Black walnut seldom has a terminal leaflet, unlike the tree in these pictures, and its pith is pale, not dark.
> ...



Thanks.  I do beg to differ on my characterization of "the fruit is a pod" as a red herring.  I like to call that a brain fart (I actually have another term that certainly violates forum rules so I won't use that).  I probably mistook catkins for pods in previous years before I knew what a catkin was.  As you can see, this tree has never produced many nuts.  Can only find one right now.

The diameter at the base of this tree is about 12 inches.  I may try to do some resawing of the wood on a bandsaw for some turning/small woodwork projects.


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## PeteD (Jun 24, 2011)

Actually, could be Japanese Walnut, too (or a hybrid), since butternuts have a canker problem:
http://www.vpr.net/news_detail/88157/

Massachusetts' woods are not old growth by any stretch....and I have some spaced out old apple trees in my woods too (and rock walls).  Someone may have planted this thing...


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## smokinj (Jun 24, 2011)

PeteD said:
			
		

> Actually, could be Japanese Walnut, too (or a hybrid), since butternuts have a canker problem:
> http://www.vpr.net/news_detail/88157/
> 
> Massachusetts' woods are not old growth by any stretch....and I have some spaced out old apple trees in my woods too (and rock walls). Someone may have planted this thing...



Ever-thing to me says Butternut. Canker would be more prone to an older tree.


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## Adios Pantalones (Jun 24, 2011)

PeteD said:
			
		

> Holy cow!  Looked up pignut hickory (had never heard of it).
> 
> I have seen these in my yard (not really near this tree, but never knew what they were and I suppose squirrels would spread around?):
> http://www.redbubble.com/people/rdshaw/art/792584-pignut-hickory
> ...



Pignut is known by other names as well, including smooth bark hickory.  We have them.  My grandmother lived in Woburn, MA and we would collect bags of the nuts and crack/eat them when I was a kid.


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## TreePointer (Jun 24, 2011)

smokinjay said:
			
		

> Ever-thing to me says Butternut. Canker would be more prone to an older tree.



Yeah that!  ^


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## CountryBoy19 (Jun 24, 2011)

Brewmonster said:
			
		

> Pecan does not have chambered pith.


I'm not saying you aren't right about butternut because I think it's a likely culprit, but IIRC, my pecan trees do have a chambered pith on the smaller twigs. I'll look when I get home.


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## Brewmonster (Jun 24, 2011)

From Vanderbilt U. website:

Black walnut leaves are one of the largest singly pinnate (leaflets arranged along a single central rachis) leaves in this area.  Trees with similar leaves are tree of heaven and pecan.  Later on this tour you will have an opportunity to compare another walnut tree with a tree of heaven nearby.  The leaflets of tree of heaven have a distinctive gland in a notch at the base of each leaflet.  Walnut leaflets do not have this gland.  Walnut twigs also have unusual chambered pith (please do not cut branches or twigs from trees on the Vanderbilt campus) and tree of heaven twigs do not.  This large walnut tree shows the distinctive furrowed bark of walnut, which is quite different from the smoother bark of tree of heaven.  Pecan trees are not common in the wild in this area so they aren't likely to be confused with walnut there. * Pecan bark is also not deeply furrowed and its twigs do not have chambered pith. *

I could cite other authorities.


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## PeteD (Jun 29, 2011)

Figured I would post the cross section in case anyone is interested...






Edit: I should add that  I found more single nuts when I cut it down.  They were more round than oblong.


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## Wood Duck (Jun 29, 2011)

If that most recent picture is from the tree in question, it sure looks like a Black Walnut. Black Walnut should have alternate leaves. This means the leaves, each comprised of a stem and a whole bunch of leaflets, should be in an alternate arrangement. The alternate arrangement is most evident away from the tips of the twigs. Ner the tips of the twigs leaves emerge so close together it can be hard to tell if they are opposite or alternate.

So, dark heartwood, hollow pith in stems, roundish nuts, leaves with 12 to 16 r more leaflets - it all points to black Walnut.


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## TreePointer (Jun 29, 2011)

Wood Duck said:
			
		

> If that most recent picture is from the tree in question, it sure looks like a Black Walnut. Black Walnut should have alternate leaves. This means the leaves, each comprised of a stem and a whole bunch of leaflets, should be in an alternate arrangement. The alternate arrangement is most evident away from the tips of the twigs. Ner the tips of the twigs leaves emerge so close together it can be hard to tell if they are opposite or alternate.
> 
> So, dark heartwood, hollow pith in stems, roundish nuts, leaves with 12 to 16 r more leaflets - it all points to black Walnut.



I like your observations, but I still have two stumbling blocks for it's being black walnut.  The *leaflets *look wider than that found on a typical black walnut and terminal leaflets are present more than any black walnut tree I've seen.  Also, the fruit looks elongated, yet the fruit on my black walnut trees right now looks very round--like golf balls.


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## smokinj (Jun 29, 2011)

Can you post pic's of the nuts? I just never see walunt with sapwood over an inch or two, but maybe thats why people like mine. idk


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## Thistle (Jun 29, 2011)

Butternut. Nuts are oval or egg shaped,with deeper grooved shells than Black Walnuts.


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## smokinj (Jun 29, 2011)

Thistle said:
			
		

> Butternut. Nuts are oval or egg shaped,with deeper grooved shells than Black Walnuts.



Love the mortise and tenon work!


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## billb3 (Jun 29, 2011)

Whatever they are we have a bunch of them coming up around here, too.
Mostly I cut them down -weed them out as they are in spots where I don't want a tree to grow ( and they have a fairly fast growth rate).


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## PeteD (Jun 29, 2011)

smokinjay said:
			
		

> Can you post pic's of the nuts? I just never see walunt with sapwood over an inch or two, but maybe thats why people like mine. idk



All of the fruit I saw looked like the picture below and were single fruits.  I suspect maybe the fruit on this tree were just too young to have grown into the exaggerated oblong shape I see in pictures on the internet for white walnut (butternut).  In contract to the picture below, internet photos look very long and pointy, but those fruit may be more mature...


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## smokinj (Jun 29, 2011)

PeteD said:
			
		

> smokinjay said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Doesnt look like the Black walnut we have close though.....To have all the saplings around you you didnt notice piles of black walnuts everywhere? I know my BW are young maybe 10 years old you will get 25-35 gallons of walnuts a year, this year being even more with the rain. Big clusters everywhere and the limbs a sagging hard already!


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