# Chain Saw Bar Lube - Veggie Oil !!!



## Sandor (Jan 11, 2006)

I was lurking on an Arbhorist web site this past summer where guys were talking about using vegatable oil for bar lube. These guys use chain saws for a living. Very serious crowd. It seemed that over half of them used the veggie oil for bar lube with no adverse (equipment) effects. Most switched because of their wives complaining about the oily mess and smell on their clothes.

I did not like the idea of spreading motor oil all over my property, so I thought I would give it a shot.

After 4 months now, all I can say is that I will never go back to petro for the bar lube.

The odd thing is, my saw is starting to get cleaner, the more I use it. I can sharpen the chain without my hands becoming an oily mess. The chain still has an oily coating on it. The chain also seems to run more free with less gumming. I see no evidence of premature wear.

Anybody else use the veggie oil? If not, do our environment a favor and give it try. I'm convinced.


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## Eric Johnson (Jan 12, 2006)

It's a good thing for all the reasons you mentioned, Sandor.


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## babalu87 (Jan 12, 2006)

Jonsereds oil says Vegetable based right on the label

Why didnt I get the tub o' grease at BJ's


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## BrotherBart (Jan 12, 2006)

I will have to give that a shot. Of course that will be after I use up the three gallons of Poulan bar oil I got at Wal-Mart last summer for ninety-nine cents a gallon. So it's gonna be awhile. Unlike Eric, three gallons will last me more than two months.


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## JAred (Jan 12, 2006)

I use a vegie based cutting oil at work for milling operations it gets used thru a atomiser mister. its about 75 dollars a gallon tho. very clean and purified to atomize correctly.why I did'nt I think of that? Probably beats the motor oil I'm using......


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## wg_bent (Jan 12, 2006)

I have a lot of used motor oil around...Can I use it for chain lube??  Be glad to switch to veggie after that.


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## Sandor (Jan 12, 2006)

Warren, I am sure that used oil will lube the bar. However, consider the health and environmental risks. I did that years ago, but me and my saw looked like a stinkin, greasy mess. Used oil has some nasty properites such as heavy metals and combustion by-products that are just not good for you.

Do yourself a favor and drop the used oil at a recycle center and spend the couple of bucks on the veggie oil.


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## Corey (Jan 12, 2006)

Sandor - just for clarification, you are talking about grocery store, french fry cooking, salad dressing type vegetable oil as opposed to true chain saw bar oil that has a vegetable base?

A couple things to consider is that french fry cookin' vegetable oil can go rancid after being exposed to air for a while.  It will eventually turn into a sticky, gummy, smelly mess.  If the pro's are using this, it's probably still OK as they use it every day and constantly flush the old oil away.  For some of us weekend warriors, the saw might gum up between uses.  The true "bar oil" (vegetable or petroleum based) usually also has "tackifiers" to make the oil stick to the chain better and probably also has some anti-oxidants and lubricity additives as well.

Corey


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## babalu87 (Jan 12, 2006)

Sandor said:
			
		

> Warren, I am sure that used oil will lube the bar. However, consider the health and environmental risks. I did that years ago, but me and my saw looked like a stinkin, greasy mess. Used oil has some nasty properites such as heavy metals and combustion by-products that are just not good for you.
> 
> Do yourself a favor and drop the used oil at a recycle center and spend the couple of bucks on the veggie oil.



Co-signs

Used oil is used for a reason, it did its job in your engine
Kept the motor cool and carried away the little particles from normal engine wear until it is to the point of breaking down

Now what good is something with all that crap in it?
Used oil is just that, used


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## Eric Johnson (Jan 12, 2006)

Vegetable-based bar and chain oil is made from old french fry grease, but it's been reprocessed to address cozy's concerns. Apparently it contains an anti-bacterial to keep it from going bad and some other additives to make it adhere to the hardware. I'm not sure if the antibacterial treatment negates some of the environmental benefits you might expect with a "natural" lubricant. But it probably still beats spraying conventional oil around when you cut wood.

You shouldn't use motor oil--new or used--in a chain saw. It doesn't have the right additives and will wear your equipment out more quickly. You can buy some crap to mix into regular oil that supposedly brings it closer to snuff, but at a buck or two a gallon, bar and chain oil is cheaper in any event. The reason for not using drain oil is that it contains inpurities and particulates that will not only allow your bar and chain to wear faster, but will shorten the life of your oil pump. And that's not a cheap thing to replace, especially considering that it might take your bar, chain and sprocket with it when it goes.

OT, my first car was an old '64 Rambler (straight 6) that burned a little oil. You could tell when it was running low because the oil light would glow when you hung a sharp corner. Since I was trying to make a living cutting pulpwood at the time, I would just stop at the next opportunity and pour a couple quarts of bar/chain oil in the crankcase and be on my way. At the time I didn't know that bar/chain oil contains "anti-throw" additives that keep it from being tossed off the bar when the chain goes around. Theoretically, at least, that's the opposite characteristic that engine oil should have. Anyway, I figured it was thicker oil so probably appropriate for that old engine, and there was enough gasoline getting past the rings to thin it out pretty quick in any event.  I should add that I paid $75 for the car and sold a couple of years later for $50, mainly because the clutch was shot. The engine ran fine. Try as you might (and I did), it was hard to kill those old Ramblers.


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## wg_bent (Jan 12, 2006)

This all sounds like what simple logic would indicate.  ('s why I haven't used the old motor oil)

Much easier to pour it into my stove -)    Just kidding...Quick, Someone give Elk Oxygen now!)


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## Eric Johnson (Jan 12, 2006)

You think that's a joke, Warren, but I've actually had a firewood dealer suggest putting a little drain oil on the green wood he was trying to sell me in order to "get her burning good." My saw was leaking bar oil this summer (bad cap on the tank) and I thought about storing it on part of my wood pile, but then decided that it might screw up the calalytic combustor, so I found another place to park the saw.


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## JAred (Jan 13, 2006)

To state my position on motor oil I meant to say I use new motor oil, ya know that little bit left over that does'nt fit in the engine... but indeed lazy ness of not buying bar oil has got me thinking about my new saw i don't want to wear it out.


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## Sandor (Jan 13, 2006)

cozy heat for my feet said:
			
		

> Sandor - just for clarification, you are talking about grocery store, french fry cooking, salad dressing type vegetable oil as opposed to true chain saw bar oil that has a vegetable base?
> 
> A couple things to consider is that french fry cookin' vegetable oil can go rancid after being exposed to air for a while.  It will eventually turn into a sticky, gummy, smelly mess.  If the pro's are using this, it's probably still OK as they use it every day and constantly flush the old oil away.  For some of us weekend warriors, the saw might gum up between uses.  The true "bar oil" (vegetable or petroleum based) usually also has "tackifiers" to make the oil stick to the chain better and probably also has some anti-oxidants and lubricity additives as well.
> 
> Corey




For clarification, yes.... the same oil that is sitting in your pantry.

Tackifiers are what is glueing wood resins, dirt and dust onto the chain, bar and the saw itself. Thats why my saw if much cleaner after use. The lube only needs to do its job for a couple of revolutions before it has flung off.

The veggie oil would not be exposed to any more air than the way it is stored in the bottle. The oil resevoir on the saw has a cap, also.

I guess the total lack of additives is what makes me more comfortable using this. I don't think pure vegetable oil is carcinogenic.


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## Willhound (Jan 15, 2006)

Only thing that dies with vegetable oil, is the vegetable...... %-P


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## carpniels (Jan 16, 2006)

Hi Guys,

I like the vegetable oil idea. If the pros use it, why not we? I especially like it after all the pros that Sandor mentioned. Plus it is not made of petrleum which means we are not supporting regimes that want to do us harm.

Isn't that one of the real easons we use firewood to heat our houses? So we are not dependent on foreign oil??

Carpniels


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## Sandor (Jan 16, 2006)

Carniels, use it and pass the word, for the reasons you (and I) mentioned.

Good day to you!


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## PAfluedoctor (Jan 20, 2006)

So after reading all of this I see you're talking about the veg. oil you would buy at the store and that momma keeps in the kitchen. What about using waste vegetable oil after it's been filltered? Kind of the same theory as putting it in my diesel engine? All you need to do is let it separate out and drain the good off the top and run it through a paper filter to get the sediment out. Wouldn't that work?


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## Eric Johnson (Jan 20, 2006)

I'm pretty sure they put additives into the filtered oil to bring it up to an acceptible standard for bar & chain protection. There's a big difference between diesel oil and crankcase oil, in other words. And there's a significant difference between regular crankcase oil and bar & chain oil.


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## PAfluedoctor (Jan 20, 2006)

Don't know if that's for me or not Eric. I didn't mean to imply using vegy oil for diesel crankcase oil. Vegy oil can be used instead of diesel fuel not engine oil. They were actually designed for veg. oil. There are lots of websites to show someone how to make the conversion and I don't want to change the course of the conversation so I'll shut up about that. 

So I'll ask again for clarification; Could you use filtered waste vegy oil for bar and chain oil as others are using "virgin" veg. oil?


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## Eric Johnson (Jan 20, 2006)

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I mixed up my examples and it got confusing.

Regular bar and chain oil is basically engine oil with additives that make it stick to the hardware better. Veggie-based bar and chain oil is recycled vegetable cooking oil with additives that make it stick to the hardware better, and probably something to enhance lubrication. Not sure if this is your question, but it wouldn't work to use recycled or virgin vegetable oil without the additives.


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## PAfluedoctor (Jan 20, 2006)

Ok, gotcha. But it looks like Sandor is using it without the additives according to his post at the bottom portion of page 1 that is why I was checking. He said the same stuff that's in the pantry. Thanks for the clarification.


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## Sandor (Jan 21, 2006)

I will clarify again.

I use the stuff straight off of the supermarket shelf. Period.

I find that the tackifiers and whatever else they add does a great job of attracting dust, dirt and crap and holding it onto the chain and bar. Just what I want, to hold dirt onto the bar. Clean the groove out on the bar, and you will see what I mean.

This lube does its job in a couple of revs before it has flung off. How much lubricitity do you think you need? Its not like its in the crankcase for 5 thousand miles.

I made the original post BECAUSE OF EXPERIENCE, not simple pontification. And the pros on the Abhorist site use the straight vegatable oil.

Guys, do what you want and believe whatever marketing hype you wish.


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## PAfluedoctor (Jan 21, 2006)

Yo, Sandor...It's a conversation, an exhange of ideas. Don't get your underwear all in a knot here. No one said or implied that you were off your nut. If we did I will collectively appologize to you. I thought that was what you had said and sought clarification. Eric answered my question and the discussion went from there. Calm down and take a deep breath. 

Now, is everyone relaxed???  Back to my question then - If you are using off the shelf vegy oil and it works ok, what about the possibility of using filtered waste vegetable oil for the same purpose? Stuff from the french fry machine. It seems like it should work but have you or anyone else tried it yet?? If not maybe I will and will let you know.

Now a followup query - did you have to clean your oil tank prior to putting in the vegy oil? I'm not even sure that's possible but I'll ask.


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## Sandor (Jan 21, 2006)

I AM FINE. REALLY. NOT UPTIGHT.

Just Kidding!

I see no reason why you could not use filtered oil that was used to cook something non-fatty.

No flushing necessary, just dump it in and get busy.


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## PAfluedoctor (Jan 22, 2006)

I can't wait to try it. I have a friend with a restaurant who will give me all the oil I want. After it sits it the 5 gallon jug for a while it separates out and you can draw the "good" stuff off the top and toss the fat and water that drops to the bottom. 

Glad to see you're not stressed! 


GO STEELERS!!


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## PAfluedoctor (Jan 22, 2006)

Does this thing have a spell check on it? I need a spell check.....


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## Runs With Scissors (Jan 22, 2006)

_""Now a followup query - did you have to clean your oil tank prior to putting in the vegy oil? I’m not even sure that’s possible but I’ll ask.""_ 

 Need to flush you tank before? No. You will need to flush your tank after veg oil and before extended storage though. 

 Now for the part where I stick out like a polluting, sheik supporting thumb.

I used veg oil off the shelf one season and will never use it again. I had two _NEW_  bars(32" and 26") ruined and had to spend over 4hr per saw to clean out the rancid oil from the lines and pump.

 You cannot store your saw with this oil in the tank, lines or in the oil slot in the bar. I collect chainsaws as a hobby and I constantly rotate between different saws to lessen wear and just break things up a bit. On small homeowner type saws you may be fine with this, but with the bigger saws, parts are simply too expensive to try and experiment.

 And if you are getting a bunch of junk in your bar groove you may not be sharpening your chain often enough or may be cutting dirty wood or just plain dirt.

 In some situations the tacifiyers are a must 20"= bars/chains.


Just my .02c


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## Sandor (Jan 22, 2006)

Have not tried it on a bar over 18" My cutting environment is certainly not-clean.

The quickest way I have found to ruin a bar is to cut with an improperly sharpened chain. You know, when you bucking a log and saw starts running at an angle.


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## Eric Johnson (Jan 22, 2006)

I have to apologize for not understanding what you guys were talking about. I thought you were referring to the commercial vegetable-oil-based bar and chain oil that is sold by the major saw manufacturers. It's a special, "eco-friendly" blend that they sell for use with their saws. You can buy veg-based hydraulic oil for use in logging equipment, too.

The closest I ever come to using straight vegetable oil for cutting tools is when I occasionally use a little sesame oil on a whetstone for sharpening kitchen knives. I've never heard of using regular veg. oil for bar/chain lubrication and I think I would need to know a lot more about it before I tried it. I think Scissors makes a pretty valid point.


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## cbrodsky (Jan 22, 2006)

Anyone try a blend with thicker preformulated oil to help improve the properties?

I have at least a gallon of used cooking oil that I have to dispose of, most of which was used for one batch of fish or some other pungent food that I can't refry in.  If I could use it to cut wood, all the better.

I am not familiar with the mechanism to dispense the chainsaw oil - would thinner veggie oil flow through any faster to help offset the fact that it (probably) flings off the chain faster?  What regulates the flow of oil onto the chain?

-Colin


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## Sandor (Jan 24, 2006)

'Scissors certainly makes a valid point.

I also saw his post on another thread, and it looks like he can run an antique chain saw dealership. What a collection!

Both of my saws are used regulary, and have not had to deal with the issues he has. To each his own.


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## carpniels (Jan 24, 2006)

Hi guys,

You would probably want to store a saw with veg oil in a heated space all the time. The oil tends to get very thick when it gets below 30.

I might rethink using veg oil instead of real bar oil since I use my saw irregularly and I cannot afford (nor do I have the expertise) to rebuild a saw. Plus I use less that 1/2 gallon per year so the cost savings are not really there.

Carpniels


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## kd460 (Feb 16, 2006)

Interesting topic. 

I make biodiesel fuel out of used veg oil from the local choke and puke. (not to be confused with burning straight veggie oil in a diesel, biodiesel is different, no modifications are made to the vehicle).

 The lubrication qualities of biodiesel are excellent! To the point of a typical diesel engine will run smoother and quieter. It is also an excellent solvent. It will actually clean an entire fuel system in short order. As a matter of fact, many people who switch to biodiesel have to change the fuel filter the first few tankfuls, as the biodiesel removes all of the crud that has built up in a fuel tank of a vehicle with some years on it (ashphaltines). 

I agree with carpniels, veg oil gets really thick when cold, and it will go rancid. Trust me I know. Any thing below 32 degrees and your in trouble. Actually some veg oils get thick at higher temps than that. Definetely do not want to use animal fat based oil (tallow) they are solid at room temp.

I am gonna try some of my biodiesel mixed with bar and chain oil to see if it helps keep things clean and maybe add better lubrication to the chain. I'm sure it will lower the viscosity of the bar oil, but in cold weather that is probably not a bad thing. Biodiesel takes about a year or more to go bad, so that problem is solved. Easy water clean up as well, no nasty smell, non toxic (you can actually drink biodiesel, but probably need to stay close to the library cause it's gonna lubricate you as well). Some guys actually use it in a parts washer, others say it is an excellent cutting oil. It will remove some types of paint and soften certian plastics (biodiesel and veg oil) over time, so that is another down side.

Sorry did not mean to go off on a biodiesel infomercial, but just trying to make a point that the veg oil thing is not so whacko!


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## ourhouse (Feb 23, 2006)

We use it when we have cut near wetlands.


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## MuckSavage (Feb 23, 2006)

Husqvarna's description for their bar/chain oil:

"Uses special tacking agents to keep oil on the bar and chain even at high RPM
Pro Forest, made from a 78% base of sunflower seed oil"


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## OldSnipe (Mar 3, 2006)

I'll stick with commercial chain & bar oil.  For one thing the dye in it makes it easy to see that your chain is getting oiled correctly.  For another my 10 year old Husky "55" still has the original bar on it and I don't know how many chains I've filed to nothing.  Keeping your chain filed and paying attention to the raker height has a lot to do with bar & chain wear.  Dull chain = leaning on the saw and the friction on the bar goes way up.  Sharp chain and the saw only has to be guided.  I file every tank of gas in the woods and any time it's grounded.  It saves time & wear.


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## Eric Johnson (Mar 3, 2006)

I'm with you, OldSnipe. I've got a '55 too. 1998. Sharpening after every tank is the key to happy cutting. That and sharpening correctly.


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## MALogger (Mar 3, 2006)

It always makes me laugh when you hear a saw screaming when someone is cutting you can just tell by the sound it isn't cutting but they keep trying! It doesn't take long to file a chain and you sure make up for the time spent filing in production!

Craig


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## Sandor (Mar 4, 2006)

MALogger said:
			
		

> It always makes me laugh when you hear a saw screaming when someone is cutting you can just tell by the sound it isn't cutting but they keep trying! It doesn't take long to file a chain and you sure make up for the time spent filing in production!
> 
> Craig



You are so right. Bucking a huge oak last month with another guy. His poor Poulan was screaming all day and my Stihl was making a pile a woodchips in a hurry.

I would say I was about 6 times more productive than him. He said he wants a Stihl, I offered to file his chain.


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## dahut (May 24, 2008)

I am no chainsaw expert, by any means. In fact I was looking up a B&C;lube substitute when I stumbled on here - first time post!
I didn't even know there WAS a forum for chainheads! Hello all!

Now, I'm usually pretty keen on using what the maker recommends with things like chainsaws. Maybe not their proprietary product, but the right sort of thing. B&C;lube isn't all that costly - yet. It seems the thing to go with.
Just for giggles, though, I wanted to do a little investigating.

Amid all the wrangling and mud slinging on this topic (whod've thought?!), I did find one suggestion over on the forum @ DIY.com that suggested the following recipe:

_"Mix STP oil treatment (or similar product), to regular motor oil. Mix ratio is 1/3rd STP to 2/3rds oil. 
Works well. Provides the sticky/tacky adhesion required."_

Note this addresses the adhesion issue so often cited. It at least holds promise for the homebrew types.

I confess to having doubts about plain old veggie oil, although it seems to have a devoted, albeit small, following. 

For the near future, I'll use the recommended type of oil. It seems you need to add "crap" to whatever you brew yourself to make it perform and I'm not a biodieseal producer, nor much of an alchemist, either.

Like Dirty Harry says, "A man's got to know his limitations..."


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## donatello (May 25, 2008)

Instead of the recommendation of adding STP oil treatment and motor oil, why not use gear oil (like used in automotive differentials), 90w gear oil or a 75w140 synthetic gear oil... Not enviro friendly but no worse than conventional B&C;oil.


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## dahut (May 26, 2008)

Because its fun to mix your own!


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## kd460 (May 26, 2008)

Gear oil stinks! Personally I use Tractor's Supply bar oil 5 bucks for a gallon. Works well, chains don't complain. In the winter I toss in some tranny fluid to thin it down a little to compensate for the cold weather. KD

Edit: Dahut, if you really want to get into a "chainsaw" forum, check out this: http://www.arboristsite.com/forumdisplay.php?s=aa4cff2fbd449576685e2a1f2c3b5f2d&f=9


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## Sealcove (May 26, 2008)

This is nearly ten years old, but here a Forest Service look at vegetable based bar oil.  By the way, use of such oils was already common place in Europe by the early 1990's, so it is not a new concept.

http://www.fs.fed.us/eng/pubs/html/98511316/98511316.html

Also put me on the list for touching up the chain after every tank, and I also never file unless I have the bar in a vice of some kind.


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## Adios Pantalones (May 27, 2008)

If you go to www.fungi.com, you can also get bar oil with gormet mushroom spores already infused.  Helps speed up woodland recovery after a cutover- plus you get mushrooms!

I just bought the Husky veggie based oil this weekend.


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## Gooserider (Jun 18, 2008)

As a FWIW comment, my Dolmar saw manual talks about bar oils a fair bit...

1. Used motor oil voids ALL warranties on the saw immediately, and is not reccomended for the reasons mentioned (abrasive micro particles, engine acids, dirty, environment polluting, etc)

2. Vegetable based bar oils are OK, (but I think they were talking about commercial stuff not kitchen oil) but they advise against storing the saw with them in it for extended periods of non use - they said the Veggie oils tended to go bad after a while and gum up the pump and oil lines unless they are being replaced on a regular basis.  The advice was that if storing the saw for more than 30 days, to drain the veggie oil out of the tank, put in dino-base, and run the saw long enough to flush the lines.

3. I know from experience that peanut oil as used for turkey frying will congeal below about 50*F, the colder it gets the thicker it gets, so I'd be a little concerned about using veggie oil in cold weather unless I know that it was liquid at the temperature I was cutting in.

Gooserider


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