# Jotul F 118 CB Black Bear among other things



## XxDarkEuphoriaxX (Apr 1, 2010)

So I have forgone the idea to go with a older Fisher stove, and have been looking at some newer EPA models. The three that interest me are: The Jotul Black Bear, the Hearthstone Shelburne, and the Napoleon 1100C cast iron stove. The house the stove will be in will be around 1000-1200 square feet. My favorite model is the Jotul, but I have concerns... 
I have read...

The jotul's fire box is too small
The Napoleon is small and doesn't burn very long
The Shelburne has issues with paint fading off...

I can't decide which is the best. I my first choice would be jotul, then napoleon, then shelburne.

What do you guys think? I want a stove that can burn for at least 6 hours if not more and be in the 1500 range, and I like the look of cast iron which all of these stoves are.


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## oldspark (Apr 1, 2010)

XxDarkEuphoriaxX said:
			
		

> So I have forgone the idea to go with a older Fisher stove, and have been looking at some newer EPA models. The three that interest me are: The Jotul Black Bear, the Hearthstone Shelburne, and the Napoleon 1100C cast iron stove. The house the stove will be in will be around 1000-1200 square feet. My favorite model is the Jotul, but I have concerns...
> I have read...
> 
> The jotul's fire box is too small
> ...


Seems to me you have ruled out all three for one reason or another, no other brands that interest you?


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## XxDarkEuphoriaxX (Apr 1, 2010)

the others are the woodstock fireview and the harman oakwood. but I have read that the oakwood can have issues with the gaskets it is made with instead of cement so I am concerned that it will have that type of issue. and the woodstock fireview sounds good, but both of these stoves are too expensive, almost twice as much as the other models listed. That is the main reason I am not considering them.


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## EatenByLimestone (Apr 1, 2010)

Why do you like cement over gaskets?  I'd rather have the gasket that can better deal with the heat related expansion and contraction along the joints.  

Matt


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## oldspark (Apr 1, 2010)

XxDarkEuphoriaxX said:
			
		

> the others are the woodstock fireview and the harman oakwood. but I have read that the oakwood can have issues with the gaskets it is made with instead of cement so I am concerned that it will have that type of issue. and the woodstock fireview sounds good, but both of these stoves are too expensive, almost twice as much as the other models listed. That is the main reason I am not considering them.


 Woodstock has the 600 dollar off sale and the 100 dollar shipping plus the 30%tax credit, do your self a favor and get what you want, years later you will be happy you did.


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## REF1 (Apr 2, 2010)

I considered the Black Bear recently. I went with a Hearthstone. Didn't work out for me. Now I have an Elm, which is great, but I do like the character of the Black Bear, and after using an east/west loading stove I am really loving the north/ south burn of this Elm, so the Jotul would get my vote if it can put out the heat you need for your home.


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## REF1 (Apr 2, 2010)

The specs on the Black Bear certainly seem like it would heat your home easily. Holding 24" logs is pretty impressive. And the overall size and weight of the stove should handle your needs more than enough.


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## XxDarkEuphoriaxX (Apr 2, 2010)

Yeah, and one problem I have encountered is in my area (Evansville IN) nobody has the stoves I want to look at in stock, and if I order it is a special order and I HAVE to buy.... instead of seeing what I want before I buy.


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## REF1 (Apr 2, 2010)

No Jotul dealers at all near a big place like Evansville? Huh. Or just no Jotul dealers that have a Black Bear on the floor? Indeed, that can be a problem.


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## EatenByLimestone (Apr 2, 2010)

Might be time for a road trip.

Matt


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## begreen (Apr 2, 2010)

Maybe see if you can get a cosmetically damaged, floor model or used Jotul F400 (Castine) from the dealer. Ask the dealer if they know of any customers considering an upgrade to a larger size?


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## summit (Apr 3, 2010)

I am not the biggest fan of the new 118, nor napoleon, nor the shelburne... but if you are liking the cast Iron look, might I suggest a nice alderlea by PE? Or maybe a different Jotul: The F400 would suit you right.


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## rickw (Apr 3, 2010)

The woodstock can be had delivered for just under $1700 (including tax credit), until 4/17. Its a great stove at really good price.


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## precaud (Apr 3, 2010)

REF1 said:
			
		

> I am really loving the north/ south burn of this Elm, so the Jotul would get my vote if it can put out the heat you need for your home.



The F118 loads north/south, but does not burn that way. It burns "omni"...


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## REF1 (Apr 4, 2010)

Well, well, so it does. Main intake on the door, and intake for the back end secondaries underneath the unit. But that seems to be for air they want to enter at the top of the box under the baffle to burn volatiles. Not sure that ends up being an omni-directional burn by design, but it would lend to doing that somewhat. I'd still call the stove a north south burn for the most part. But, aha! This brings up a point for another thread.


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## precaud (Apr 4, 2010)

REF1 said:
			
		

> I'd still call the stove a north south burn for the most part. But, aha! This brings up a point for another thread.



Ref, if you spent some time using the stove you'd see it is definitely not a N/S burner. Actually, it burns alot like the Waterford Leprechaun that I wrote about a few weeks ago. I've attached the drawing of the F118 air sources from the manual. The majority of combustion air is coming from the rear of the stove. The "Flash Fire" lever stimulates the fire by increasing the air from the rear of the stove, not from the front.

The fact is, just like the other deep-geometry N/S stoves, there is NO WAY that air coming from the front door is going to reach the back of the stove. And if it did, the velocity would have to be so high that the fire would burn uncontrollably. The F118 has some of that going on.

Download the PDF manual and take a look at the exploded parts diagram. Look at part #35 at 200-300% magnification, they call it a "Valve Holder for Front Door", an almost meaningless name. It is really the front door primary air manifold. Look at the holes in the manifold. When you open the front air control, it shoots 4 jets of air at the base of the fire right down the middle of the firebox. That's their attempt to get some front air toward the back of the box. Also look at #87, the primary air inlets at the back of the firebox.

When looking at this, keep in mind the firebox is only about 7" x 7" x 24". This alone kinda blurs the distinction between primary and secondary air...

Another thing that hasn't been mentioned is how much fun it is splitting 24" lengths of wood down to the 3" to 4" diameter that the stove requires...


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## Rob From Wisconsin (Apr 6, 2010)

All this talk about "true" North-South burn cigar-type stoves has me wondering,
is the Morso 2B and others true N/S?? Is the Jotul 602 a rare breed??


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## Chettt (Apr 6, 2010)

I love the looks of the Jotul but that small mouth would drive me crazy. Still want one though because it looks so cool.


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## precaud (Apr 6, 2010)

Rob From Wisconsin said:
			
		

> All this talk about "true" North-South burn cigar-type stoves has me wondering,
> is the Morso 2B and others true N/S?? Is the Jotul 602 a rare breed??



See the attached pic, the Morso 2B has primary air at the bottom-rear too. Not as aggressive as the F118 but there nonetheless.

The F602 has no primary or secondary air in the rear 1/3 of the firebox, and as a consequence there is no combustion back there. I've documented that pretty thoroughly here in my past F602 experiments.


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## NH_Wood (Apr 6, 2010)

oldspark said:
			
		

> XxDarkEuphoriaxX said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm with oldspark - this is the year to spend a little extra, making use of the tax credit, and get the best stove you can afford. The Woodstock stove will be geting pretty close to your price with the tax credit and possible sales. Plus, you want to think about the following decades of wood burning - from what others have indicated that own this stove, you will burn relatively little wood in the Fireview, and get a lot of lasting heat. Your house sounds the right size for one. You'll be happier down the road with less worry about stocking up on serious amounds of firewood. Just my 2 cents. Cheers!


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## REF1 (Apr 6, 2010)

precaud, I can see from the picture what you mean. Burning the candle at both ends. I guess that makes it a N/S, S/N burn. 

I'm not a betting man, but I would wager more air surges through the door than in the back, just by looking at the path the air takes.


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## jeffee (Apr 21, 2010)

precaud said:
			
		

> keep in mind the firebox is only about 7" x 7" x 24"




I call bs on this ..


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## EatenByLimestone (Apr 21, 2010)

Ok, supply your measurements.   


Matt


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## Battenkiller (Apr 22, 2010)

Well, I can see from the diagram that they changed the inside of the old 118 to fit in the secondary tubes and all.  Still, I don't think they changed the basic dimensions of the box itself.  I went outside and measure my old Scandia.  Even the door is bigger than 7"x7".  Mine is about 7" across and 8 1/2" tall.  The inside of the box is about 10"x10"x26".  One year I tried to use 24" splits to get an all-night burn out of a stove that wasn't designed for one.  What a PITA!  I went back to 18" and the stove worked better.  Never had a problem loading 5-6 fair size splits (4-5") on top of a 3" bed of coals.  But stoves like that really benefit from very straight splits.  Ash and cherry usually split pretty straight, and that stove ate mostly those two woods for its entire 18 year run in my basement.


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## EatenByLimestone (Apr 23, 2010)

Does the new stove have firebrick around the box?  If the bricks were 1 1/2" thick they would eat up that 3 inches.

Matt and not doubting...  I just haven't seen one of the new stoves.


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## precaud (Apr 24, 2010)

Side liners are kaowool-backed cast iron, like the F602. Probably 3/4" or so thick. Bottom liner is also cast iron with kaowool backing, dimpled to stand it off from the bottom, 2" or so thick. My 7x7 was exaggerated. It's probably more like 9x8.


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## Dolly (Apr 24, 2010)

rowemom5_51@yahoo.com  if anyone has any info on Pro Former -z wood stoves


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## precaud (Apr 24, 2010)

Dolly, you have posted in a thread that  has nothing to do with your stove. You should start a new thread with your question.


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## Dolly (Apr 24, 2010)

Someone just mentioned about bricks & their size. They said "I havent seen one of these new stoves".So I took that they were talkin about stoves,doesnt matter what kind. I just wanted to see if anyone had any info on this.As the topic was that of stoves.!


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## precaud (Apr 24, 2010)

No, this topic is the Jotul F118 stove. If you want your question seen and perhaps answered, start a new thread.


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## jeffee (Apr 24, 2010)

Firebox is 10" wide, 10" high sloping to 8" high, an average of 9" height.  In other words 10" x 9", less the room that the side tubes take up.  They're all the way at the top and sides, and about 1" diameter, so in effect they take away about 48 cubic inches.  

Also, sorry if I was rude before!

Best, Jeff


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## jeffee (Apr 24, 2010)

Also, I don't believe there is any kaowool type insulation in the sides, and there is definitely none on the bottom.


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## EatenByLimestone (Apr 24, 2010)

jeffee said:
			
		

> Firebox is 10" wide, 10" high sloping to 8" high, an average of 9" height.  In other words 10" x 9", less the room that the side tubes take up.  They're all the way at the top and sides, and about 1" diameter, so in effect they take away about 48 cubic inches.
> 
> Also, sorry if I was rude before!
> 
> Best, Jeff




:lol:   I didn't think it was rude or anything.  I saw it as a tease....  Something like, "I went fishing today and caught a 20 inch..." and not telling what kind of fish it was.    


How do you like the stove?    What are your experiences?  

Matt


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## reganp (Jul 23, 2010)

Jotul 118
I have a 31 year old 118 that has performed incredibly well over the years in our very cold winters. Does anyone have info on how the new 118's compare in their heating capacity, ease of lighting and ability to hold a fire all night? Will I really be able to find a new jotul that matches or exceeds my older 118? I have also looked at some of the larger, windowed Jotul models- does anyone have a comparison on these versus a 118? Thanks!


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## begreen (Jul 23, 2010)

The reports coming in are that the new 118 is a decent stove, but has neither the performance nor the capacity of the original stove. The secondary rack takes up space and can be fussy. 

I'd look into an Oslo (F500) to match and perhaps exceed the old 118's performance. It's a great design with many happy owners.


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## AngusMac (Jul 30, 2010)

reganp said:
			
		

> Jotul 118
> I have a 31 year old 118 that has performed incredibly well over the years in our very cold winters. Does anyone have info on how the new 118's compare in their heating capacity, ease of lighting and ability to hold a fire all night? Will I really be able to find a new jotul that matches or exceeds my older 118? I have also looked at some of the larger, windowed Jotul models- does anyone have a comparison on these versus a 118? Thanks!


I had the older Jotul 118 and sold it when I sold my last house. I loved that stove.
When I bought my new house, Jotul had just come out with the new 118 Black Bear, so I bought it, and I think it is marginally better, why;
It is far stronger and heavier construction.
It has clean burning secondary air.
It will hold embers well into the middle of the next day, that is the reason we never had to re-light our 118 between October to April.
If there is a criticism then I think it is not the easiest to light, not as easy as the 602.

The fire box is large, if you sit 2 logs side by side the stove burns exceptionally well, and dont let the door size tell you that you cant get 2 large logs in, you can.


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