# chainsaw twists clockwise as its cutting thru log - followup bar questions



## Apprentice_GM (Aug 6, 2008)

First post here, so let me first of all thank every contributor for the enormous amount of excellent information available, I have been reading my way through a few hundred posts these last 2 weeks and gained some valuable tips. I initially found this site searching for Holz Hausen pics having learnt to build one from thechimneysweep.ca but obviously there is so much more going on here in the forums!

I have a Husky 353 chainsaw with 18" bar and recently broke a chain and bought a new one. The old one was the factory fitted (husky?) chain, the new one is a Stihl Oilomatic3 _<edited as originally I thought it was Oregon>_ chain from my local dealer. I have noticed the new chain pulls me thru a log and twists to the left, or twists the saw clockwise as it cuts, compared to the old one. Such that if I was cutting thru a 12" log it would be 10 to 15 degrees away from vertical by the finish - halfway to "one oclock" on an hour hand.

Can anyone tell me why, and hopefully how to fix it? I wouldn't call myself a pro lumberjack by any stretch, but I've felled, limbed and bucked about 20 small trees lately (estimate 8 to 10 cords) and I certainly do start my cuts vertically, and I didn't have this problem with the old chain. I was wondering if the chain was the wrong type for the saw, or perhaps some sort of anti-kickback model and that's one of the disadvantages of them.

Also, whilst on the topic, I notice the new chain gets blunt a lot quicker than the old chain. A lot of our wood (I'm from Oz) is pretty hard, for example ironbark is well named, it's organic steel, rates about 73 pounds per cubic foot density or 14+ on a hardness scale (I don't know how hard North American woods are having never sawed them but I see from this site's reference article Hickory tops the list at 50 pounds per cubic foot, not sure if that translates to hardness, but if it does then our eucalypts like ironbark are around 50% harder and heavier). Is there harder steel chain eg perhaps Stihl chain the Husky may have used, that I can get instead that will hold sharpness longer? I saw a reference to this possibility in a recent Eric Johnson post of his visit to the Oregon Saw Chain company.


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## Backroads (Aug 6, 2008)

Why did the chain break?  Did by chance you damage the bar or not rotate the bar on a regular basis?  If the bar is tweeked that could explain it possibly.


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## N/A N/A (Aug 6, 2008)

First off, welcome to the forum! There are a few reasons why your saw may be cutting this way. It could be anything from a worn out drive drum to an improperly sharpened chain. If your bar is warn out it could also cause this I suppose. When you broke your last chain, did you pinch the bar and or what happened to cause the chain to break? And was the saw cutting correctly prior to replacing the chain?


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## Apprentice_GM (Aug 6, 2008)

Backroads said:
			
		

> Why did the chain break?  Did by chance you damage the bar or not rotate the bar on a regular basis?  If the bar is tweeked that could explain it possibly.



Ahhh, that's an excellent question. I don't know is the short answer . . . I was rotating the bar with every chain sharpen on the old chain. The chain was getting worn, when I got the last (shop) sharpen done I was told it would be the last sharpen (as it turned out they were correct  ) but it wasn't to the wear mark on the tooth yet.

I have been sharpening my new chain by hand file, just touching up the teeth every tank or so, but it was pulling that way from new. I've had a look at the bar and to the naked eye it looks fine. Should I pull it off and run a straight edge over it?


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## Apprentice_GM (Aug 6, 2008)

FIREFIGHTER29 said:
			
		

> First off, welcome to the forum! There are a few reasons why your saw may be cutting this way. It could be anything from a worn out drive drum to an improperly sharpened chain. If your bar is warn out it could also cause this I suppose. When you broke your last chain, did you pinch the bar and or what happened to cause the chain to break? And was the saw cutting correctly prior to replacing the chain?



Thanks - it's great to be here  

I didn't pinch the bar when it broke, in fact I was sawing through a pretty small log using the teeth at the base to hold it, so cutting with the underside of bar and back half (nearest me / nearest motor) and it was well chocked and free falling so no chance of pinch.

Should I replace the bar with every chain? Or replace the drive drum with every chain? Or the toothed wheel on the bar?

The tilting pull happened from new chain, immediately, so can't have been a bad sharpen, and it wasn't happening with the old chain even in the minutes before breakage. 

I don't know what caused my old chain to break, I just assumed with wear they eventually broke. I certainly got full life usage out of that chain, I reckon it started with 8mm of tooth to the wear line and finished with less than 1 mm to the wear line 

Maybe I keep my chain too tight? I dislike the chain being too loose, I tighten it until I can - just - rotate chain by hand, and when lifting the chain the bits that are supposed to stay in the bar groove don't come out far enough to see daylight between them and bar.


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## N/A N/A (Aug 6, 2008)

Apprentice_GM said:
			
		

> FIREFIGHTER29 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




First off let me say this, I am no pro but we do have some well schooled guys on here that should be checking in any time now. When you tighten your chain, you should leave a little slack in it. You should be able to pull on the top of the chain and not be able to pull the drive teeth out of the bar but have it loose enough that when you let it go it should snap back into the bar with no problem. You dont want to crank it down as this causes excessive wear on the bar and drive drum. It also should be noted to use proper bar and chain oil. The rule of thumb that I was always told, is that you should at least have you drive drum looked at after every full use of two chains. In another words, after you have gone through the life span of two chains have your drum inspected. In my experience it will need replaced. If you rotate your bar, it should last you a long time under normal cutting circumstances.


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## N/A N/A (Aug 6, 2008)

I should add this, after reading your post again, you are tighten your chain a bit to much. There should be slight slack in it as stated in my last post. If you tighten your chain that tight, I would look at your drum and I would bet that is where your problem is. Check this link out and watch the videos for helpful tips on operating a chain saw.

http://www.stihlusa.com/information/info_lit_video.html#realvid


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## savageactor7 (Aug 6, 2008)

Hummm from your description it sounds like the chain is to sharp on left side. But you say this is a brand new out of the box chain HUH!

Just in case you really meant ... 'it was new in the morning and after a couple hours use it started cutting to the left' just sharpen the right side teeth. Maybe all ya have to do is draw the file once across...or do 3 strokes on the right and one on the left side. If a chain is cutting down and to the left it means the left side is sharper than the right.

Then again on a used old but still serviceable chain even if both sides are correctly sharped one side could be worn back farther than the other so as the chain takes its bite the higher side of the chain will take the lead and cut either to the L or R.

The operators manual will point you in the direction of efficient operation and correct chain tension. Good luck.


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## Adios Pantalones (Aug 6, 2008)

If you're just touching up teeth and not taking care of the depth settings- it could cause this.  I solved the same issue a few years back just by taking down the depth.


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## Apprentice_GM (Aug 6, 2008)

Adios Pantalones said:
			
		

> If you're just touching up teeth and not taking care of the depth settings- it could cause this.  I solved the same issue a few years back just by taking down the depth.



That might be the case for older chain, but it shouldn't be the cause with brand new chain (should it?) which is when mine started.

Same for left side vs right side sharpness, it is a good explanation and one I will remember for an older chain, but it shouldn't be the case with brand new quality chain (should it?).

Also from an earlier post, I watched the linked Stihl video (very helpful, thanks) and I was tensioning, not over tensioning, my chain correctly all the time. I'm just picky about it, not letting it run loose like some others do around here (my neighbours, not this forum).

I think the best explanation that I will check out is a worn drive drum, or damaged bar I can't see with naked eye, needing a straight edge and removal from saw. Thanks all for your feedback though, much appreciated!


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## Adios Pantalones (Aug 6, 2008)

If it started right away (fresh chain), then you're right.

Reports here are that Stihl chain seems to hold an edge longer than many others (including Oregon).  Also- if you're using a grinder, watch out for heating on the chain which can 'f up the temper.

I hope to visit Australia some day and tour a few wood-fired potteries.  I hear about ironbark, stringybark, etc. etc. Some of those guys burn 5 cord in a few days.  Awesome.


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## kevin j (Aug 6, 2008)

new out of the box could still be sharpened unequal, or have depth gauges wrong, unlikely but I would check.

Worn sprocket rim (or drum, if you have a spur type drive) shouldn't cause this. 

mostly likely bar damage, but if it happened just at chain change, maybe not likely either. Put a different old chain back on and try it. If cuts ok, not the bar.

Is the new chain the right one? Pitch of course must be right or you would know that in rotating it. But how about thickness gauge? if the bar groove is say .063 or .058 and the new chain is .050, it can flop side to side in the groove, and cut crooked.

k


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## Jack33 (Aug 6, 2008)

Either your bar is damaged, the chain is the wrong gauge, or the cutters are not even left to right.

Inspect the bar rails for uneven wear and clean them up.  Check the gauge on your new chain, it should be .050".  What is the part number on the Oregon box?  It is doubtful that the cutters were that far off from the factory, but anything is possible.  Even less likely given the fact that it is dulling quickly.

All Husqvarna chain and bars are made by Oregon.  There are different series chains so which did you get?  The best/hardest (non-carbide) chain avaible is Stihl RSC.


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## savageactor7 (Aug 7, 2008)

Well I can't believe it's the bar and Apprentice_GM couldn't eyeball the problem...to eliminate the bar just flip it to see if the chain cuts to the right. And while you have the bar off take a flat file to it and trim up any burrs.


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## Apprentice_GM (Aug 7, 2008)

OK, I have done some of what was suggested . . . first off, I am a bit embarrassed, but the chain is not oregon, it's Stihl. When I bought it I brought my old chain to the dealer and told him my model of chainsaw (Husqvana 353) and he looked up an Oregon Chain Catalog in front of me, then went and got the chain, I just grabbed the box with a few other bits and pieces and went home and fitted the chain, which is why I thought it was Oregon. Sorry 

So, for what it's worth, the chain is a Stihl Oilomatic3 .325 with "5" on the guide/bar slot "tooth". I'm not sure how much attention to pay to the box it came in, as the box has listed 40cm/ 16inch for length of chain, and my husky saw has an 18" bar (it says on the bar and I measured it so I'm sure of that!). However, in case the rest of the box info is correct - I wouldn't know either way - the numbers from left to right are:
3610 000 0055 61 PMMC3 55
and under that:
40cm 16In | 55 | 9,32mm 3/8" P | 1,1mm ,043 In |

The first is clearly bar length and has a pretty pic of a bar, the 2nd has a pic of the bar guide tooth (sorry not sure of technical term, the one on the inside of chain that runs inside the bar slot) and the third is clearly 0.325" which matches the chain marking and has a pic showing it's the length between rivet in front of guide height and rivet below cutting tooth, whilst the 4th has a pic of thickness, but exactly what I can't be sure, perhaps thickness of bar slot tooth?

I inspected the bar and it had a small burr on the top near tooth wheel at end of bar. I find it hard to believe it could do anything, as I never cut with that part of the bar - it's prime kickback territory - but I filed it and flipped the bar and re-assembled after a good clean.

Whilst cleaning, I noticed something else - the inside of the bar (left side as you hold the saw) was worn with the "Husqvana" logo almost gone whereas the outside has the Husqvana logo in very good condition. To match, the inside rivets and chain in general was very clean, with teeth quite polished, whereas the outside was quite dirty with bits of gunk on the teeth and the rivets and chain covered in gunk. So clearly, the inside is getting wear or rubbing on the log on the way through. This doesn't make sense to me as the inside of the bar/chain is on the inside of the curve I am creating (unintentionally, I'm just holding the saw!) and therefore I would have thought it would get less abrasion or chafe compared to the outside. <sigh>

Anyway, I took some pics and will try to upload them later after cropping and re-sizing.

I haven't had a chance yet to cut with the bar reversed, but it's a good suggestion, I will do it as soon as possible.

[b]Pics:[/b]

The bar looks straight to me:











Inside of bar is chafing and Husqvana logo and name almost gone.






Inside of chain is very clean with almost polished rivets and cutting teeth:





Whereas the outside of chain is dirty with gunk all over it:





The log end showing the curved cut:


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## DiscoInferno (Aug 7, 2008)

If it's actually .043" gauge (drive-link thickness) and the bar is .050" gauge (or larger), then as previous posters suggested the chain will be too loose side-side in the bar and that could certainly explain some crooked cutting.  Compare the thickness of the drive links (bar guide tooth) on the new and old chains, and see if the new one can slop around in the groove.


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## Apprentice_GM (Aug 7, 2008)

DiscoInferno said:
			
		

> If it's actually .043" gauge (drive-link thickness) and the bar is .050" gauge (or larger), then as previous posters suggested the chain will be too loose side-side in the bar and that could certainly explain some crooked cutting.  Compare the thickness of the drive links (bar guide tooth) on the new and old chains, and see if the new one can slop around in the groove.



I gave the old chain to the dealer to dispose of - it was well worn and worthless to me - so I can't check that unfortunately. It's a good idea, but I don't have an old chain to put on and check. Maybe I should buy a second chain and ensure it has a .050" guage or whatever matches the Husky 18" bar and see if that fixes it? That was I'll have a spare / second chain. Then if the new chain does the same thing (with the bar flipped bear in mind) get a new bar or check something else. If it cuts straight with the new chain and flipped bar, I can use the current chain limbing and bucking small logs where the curved cut doesn't matter so much.


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## DiscoInferno (Aug 7, 2008)

I don't think you want to intentionally run too narrow a chain.  If the dealer gave you the wrong chain, take it back.


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## Backroads (Aug 7, 2008)

It's sounding more and more like the chain.  I'd get another one that properly fits the saw.


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## Apprentice_GM (Aug 7, 2008)

Thanks for all the replies and suggestions. I did actually take it back to the dealer this afternoon, wondering if he had sold me a chain with too narrow a guage for the bar. First of all he decreed the problem was because one side's teeth were sharper than the other sides. I discounted that immediately as it was happening from first use of brand new chain. I told him the box didn't match the chain, but was it possible he had sold me less than 0.050" guage chain? He said impossible, as the chain I had didn't come in less than 0.050", which I found strange, as the (incorrectly matched) box the chain came in has 0.043" on it. Hmmmm . . .

However, I took him at his word that the chain he sold me was 0.050", after all it has a "5" on the bar guide tooth, and he had a good look at the bar and picked up something I had missed, but similar to what others here have been getting at with the focus on chain guage.

The bar has been overheated along one edge (the top edge now it's flipped, formerly the bottom since I got the new chain) and allows more movement of the chain laterally than it should have. Which is similar to having too small a guage chain in the bar. So when it overheated it must have slightly widened the bar slot along that edge. Which makes me wonder if that is what caused the old chain to break (as an earlier poster asked). So a couple of follow up questions:

1) Can I repair the bar by filing it down, presuming the widening of the slot decreases away from the edge?
2) Or should I just buy a new bar? The dealer says it isn't a safety issue, I'll just keep cutting curves 
3) Why did it overheat and how can I prevent this in future?

With #3, where I live in Australia it is pretty mild really, especially compared to the awesome winters I see in North America or Europe. Nights get down to 0 occasionally, more likely 2 or 3 degrees, no snow, frosts are rare. Days are great, often mid teens even in winter (now), nice and sunny. All temps are Celsius  I have a chainsaw routine where every tank I finish, I stop, refuel and re-lube (which is never empty, the husky is cleverly designed to ensure lube outlasts fuel), run a file across the teeth holding the bar in a gloved hand for a light sharpen but my wood shavings are always beautiful long peelings, and have a drink and maybe take a picture. So even with constant work through a long 10 or 12 hour day, which I've done a few times, I can't see how I'm overheating a bar. The chain always looks lubed and never feels hot when I sharpen it. Any ideas on how I have overheated and not noticed, and what do I look for in future to avoid this?

Thanks so much for all your advice so far!


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## Backroads (Aug 7, 2008)

How much oil is left in the tank is the question I'd look into.  Just because there is oil left doesn't mean that all is good.  You could actually be not getting enough oil to the chain/bar.  The rule of thumb I use is tank of fuel/tank of oil(or as close as I can get without going empty in the oil).  I'd look into adjusting the oil to use more myself.  As for a new bar, is it worn really bad on both sides?  If so I'd save it for cutting junk and pick up a new one.  I know it seems like a pain to switch back and forth but whenever I got some "less desirable" stuff to cut I have an older chain/bar I throw on to save on the better set.


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## TruePatriot (Aug 7, 2008)

*Apprentice_GM,*

I'm no expert, like some of these guys, but I have seen where the two rails of the bar will wear unevenly, height-wise, thus tilting the chain one way or the other.  My friend's father used to "true" these up, using a large, vertically-mounted disc sander, which struck me as a little crude, but it was apparently effective.  If you can see a disparity in bar rail height, either with your eye or by putting the bar in a known-level vice, and then putting a level across the rails, IMO, that could be the cause.

A small, plastic, magnetic "torpedo level" might be handy in this application.  A piece of angle-iron, clamped into the same vice, prior to checking the bar, will show if your vice is level.  I have a small, "portable" vice mounted on a piece of plywood, for such instances, since my workbench and basement floor are not level.

Also, the small differences in the various dimensions for the bar gauges is kind of news to me (e.g., .045"-.050"-.058"), but *couldn't you check the gap between your bar rails with a simple "feeler gauge" set?*

And I'm assuming the gauge on the drive teeth is marked?  If not, and somebody knew how to read a micrometer (I knew in 7th grade shop class, but not now--LOL) the drive tooth-gauge should be easily checked, I would think.  

Lastly, it seems unlikely, but is it possible the drive teeth are mis-stamped, gauge-wise?

Personally, since it cut fine with the old chain, *I suspect this new chain is the wrong gauge.*

And I second the idea that you would not want to run a too-thin gauge of chain at all, as I believe that would create irregular wear patterns and "hog out" the interior of the rails.

Now...hopefully someone with real experience will correct any erroneous statements or assumptions I've made.

Good luck.


*savageactor7:*

This got me to thinking:



> Then again on a used old but still serviceable chain even if both sides are correctly sharped one side could be worn back farther than the other so as the chain takes its bite the higher side of the chain will take the lead and cut either to the L or R.



I think I've learned something:  for the life of me, I cannot straighten out a chain I have previously sharpened successfully--but I've been ignoring the raker-height issue, since the chain is old and I cannot find a chart listing it, so I can buy the proper depth gauge.  I never thought about uneaven rakers causing evenly-sharpened teeth to bite to different depths, thereby causing a hook, but couldn't this have the same effect (hooking) as your suggestion to look at teeth filed back to different lengths?  (Which, come to think of it, I believe I may also have).

Thank you!


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## savageactor7 (Aug 7, 2008)

Apprentice_GM said:
			
		

> I gave the old chain to the dealer to dispose of - it was well worn and worthless to me - so I can't check that unfortunately. It's a good idea, but I don't have an old chain to put on and check. Maybe I should buy a second chain and ensure it has a .050" guage or whatever matches the Husky 18" bar and see if that fixes it?



I take it the old was chain too stretched out to correctly tension?  If not it's still a serviceable chain once sharpened and now you know it's always a good idea to have extra chains handy. It's one thing to be cutting in your back yard needing a chain out of your garage and another to be at a remote location having to make some production and not have one.

Your description of the bar over heating reveals to me a lube problem. Take the bar off and clean it up insuring the oil ports at the back end of the bar are open so the oil will flow to the bar. With compressed air or diesel clean out the saw and have a good look see where the saws oil reservoir weeps on to the driving chain...btw it also looked like the chain needed more oil.

Re-assemble, correctly tension, fire it up and observe for oil coming off the tip...the oil will fly off and spray a fresh cut log making it easier to spot.

Anytime you suspect the bar is overheating immediately shut down and do some trouble shooting...thing only get worse from there.

I hope you can solve this cutting crooked problem and make some good production but I'm all out of suggestions based solely on my own experience and not expert knowledge. Let us know how you make out Apprentice.


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## kevin j (Aug 7, 2008)

Is the oil usage normal for what you had in the past?

My bet is that he gave you the wrong chain, which rocked in the groove (and cut crooked) which also puts more force on one tie strap than on the other. The force is not divided 50/50 left to right, so the rail with more tie strap pressure wore more. Lubrication may be adequate for normal cutting, but not enough for the heavier strap force. So if the root problem is corrected, the wear/lube problem may go away.

I would feeler gauge the bar groove (it should be stamped on the bar also for the gauge), micrometer the chain, then take the parts back to the dealer with the proof. If it is the wrong chain, and it damaged your bar, make him give you the right chain and dress the bar. Best would be for him to give you a new bar, unlikely. Maybe each pay half of his dealer cost or something.  Somehow he should make good if his error caused the problem.   Sounds like he is trying to blame sharpening as the error, but don't accept that excuse if the gauge is wrong. Stand your ground.....A loose chain will never work right in the groove, needs to be fixed right. 

k


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## woodconvert (Aug 7, 2008)

Apprentice_GM said:
			
		

> I have a Husky 353 chainsaw with 18" bar and recently broke a chain and bought a new one. The old one was the factory fitted (husky?) chain, the new one is an Oregon chain from my local dealer. I have noticed the new chain pulls me thru a log and twists to the left, or twists the saw clockwise as it cuts, compared to the old one.



It happens when you dull one side more than the other, like if you nicked a stone on one side. It's common and easy to fix. Just re-sharpen it. Look the chain over carefully and i'm sure you'll see a couple teeth on one side that are dinged.


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## Jack33 (Aug 7, 2008)

Ok, they made your chain off a reel and stuck it in a box they had lying around.  Happens all the time, but they normally write the actual part number on the box, around here anyways.  The box is for .043" 3/8" chain...probably wouldn't even stay on the bar/sproket a full turn.

But, the 5 on the drive link means that it is .058" gauge.  It is the inncorect chain IF you have a .050" bar, which is the case in the US.  .050" has a 3 on the drive link.  So your chain is riding to high in the bar and twisting.  I imagine the bar rails are a little higher on 1 side also and when combined with a fat chain riding high in the groove, you are getting a nice slanted cut.

Your bar doesn't look so good for only having 1 chain run on it.  The rails have gotten pretty hot.  If your firewood is as hard as you say, I would crank the oiler WAY up.  If your bar is is really beat between the heat and the incorrect chain, I would replace it.  If it was a longer (more expensive) bar I would try to save it, but a 18" bar is fairly cheap, in the US anyways.  I would try to get the dealer in cover it or at least part of it.  Save the old bar for stumps/roots/dirty wood/etc.

All this is assuming that your 353 came with a .050" bar in Australia.  You need to make sure, it is marked on the bar.


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## N/A N/A (Aug 7, 2008)

I dont know why I didnt think about the possibility of the new chain being the wrong one :roll:


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## Apprentice_GM (Aug 8, 2008)

Jack33 said:
			
		

> Ok, they made your chain off a reel and stuck it in a box they had lying around.  Happens all the time, but they normally write the actual part number on the box, around here anyways.  The box is for .043" 3/8" chain...probably wouldn't even stay on the bar/sproket a full turn.
> 
> But, the 5 on the drive link means that it is .058" gauge.  It is the inncorect chain IF you have a .050" bar, which is the case in the US.  .050" has a 3 on the drive link.  So your chain is riding to high in the bar and twisting.  I imagine the bar rails are a little higher on 1 side also and when combined with a fat chain riding high in the groove, you are getting a nice slanted cut.
> 
> ...



OK, I have checked the bar, it does indeed have ".050/1 3" stamped on it as you say. Along with 18/45 (length in inches/cm's I assume?) and gold old "MADE IN USA"  Now again I assume that means clearly the guage is 0.050 of an inch, although why the "/1"? I wonder if the "3" after the 0.050/1 indicates the number that should be on the drive link?

The number on the Stihl .325 chain drive link is "5". I took it into the dealer yesterday and he was adamant the chain was 0.050 guage and the reason for the bad cutting was chain wobble/twist due to overheated bar widening.

I have pushed the chain this morning and it does appear to move laterally (wobble/twist) way more than it should.

Can anyone categorically tell me that Stihl use the same drive link numbering system as Oregon, and that a "5" on the drive link indicates a 0.058" guage, which is definitely wrong for my bar? I am very hesitant to re-visit my dealer after yesterday, but if it is the wrong chain, I will need to get it replaced.

Again, thanks all so much for you contributions . . .


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## BJ64 (Aug 8, 2008)

"
Can anyone categorically tell me that Stihl use the same drive link numbering system as Oregon, and that a "5" on the drive link indicates a 0.058" guage, which is definitely wrong for my bar? I am very hesitant to re-visit my dealer after yesterday, but if it is the wrong chain, I will need to get it replaced.

"

Yes, Stihl and Oregon use the same system on their chains.  

In my experience if the bar is burnt then the paint is also burned off and heat discoloring on the metal is quite evident.  Many new bars will show some discolor about the rails due to the manufacturing process.  Perhaps they harden the rails or something that causes this.  I've toasted a few bars due to running out of oil (cap came off) and they get hot fast and start smoking.  The heat marks from that abuse will be almost an inch wide in the area that pressure from cutting has been applied.  The heat marks from the manufacturing process will be about the depth of the chain teeth and even all about.  

I did not see any evidence of a heat warped or heat spread bar in your well presented pictures.  In fact I have not experienced a heat "spread" bar but I have corrected pinched bars with a few taps of a hammer upon a flat screwdriver used as a wedge.     

You may have the wrong chain but almost always in my case when the saw cuts crooked there is something uneven with the chain.  Usually it is because I hit a rock or a fence wire and booger up a few teeth on one side or the other.  

Sharpening the chain by hand is hard for me.  I may be able to do one side fine but I will do badly on the other side.  I use a file guide that clamps to the bar and keeps my angle and depth correct.  Uneven sharpening has caused the saw to cut crooked for me.  

Cutting in very hard wood will amplify any issue with the chain.  In my area we have a tree called Bodarc (short for the French name of bow de arc because the Indians used it to make weapons).  It is what we locally consider a hard tree.  If the chain is not in good and correct condition, it will tell because of a crooked cut very much like you have pictured.   

Also, most of my problems problems with the bar is evident because the chain will derail quite a bit seemingly for the heck of it.  

I like to use Stihl chain but I always used Oregon chain on the Husky saws I have had in the past because the dealer I was using only sold that brand of chain.

I have never replaced a drive sprocket but will agree that I should have.  I have never had a problem of cutting crooked because of the drive sprocket.

I strongly suspect the problem is with the chain.  In almost all cases that I have had with crooked cuts have been corrected by properly sharpening the chain.


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## woodconvert (Aug 8, 2008)

Ewe...wish i'd seen the pics and read the rest of the post yesterday. That bar is rough!. Well, it looks like the others have set you straight...other than lose the safety chain and get a chisel chain.


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## Jack33 (Aug 8, 2008)

Stihl chain identification....

http://www.stihlusa.com/chainsaws/identify.html


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## savageactor7 (Aug 8, 2008)

Apprentice_GM said:
			
		

> OK, I have done some of what was suggested . . . first off, I am a bit embarrassed, but the chain is not oregon, it's Stihl. When I bought it I brought my old chain to the dealer and told him my model of chainsaw (Husqvana 353) and he looked up an Oregon Chain Catalog in front of me, then went and got the chain, I just grabbed the box with a few other bits and pieces and went home and fitted the chain, which is why I thought it was Oregon.




Whoops just saw that...I have to problem buying loops but they should be hanging freely then placed in a convenient carry home box in fount of you. 

Stihl and Oregon are both good chains Apprentice so either brand correctly fitted will get the job done. I just prefer Oregon cause for me there easier to hand sharped.

Now since a different chain was in the box what I would do if I was stumped at a problem,  is just bring the saw to the dealer, lay it on the counter and say  'what do I need to keep this saw running correctly?' 

Once your set up correctly the only other recommendation I would make is that you take your time and let the saw do the cutting. Don't use those spiked bumpers as a fulcrum to force the handle bar threw the wood...just let the chain do all the cutting. That is so important to making good long last production.


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## Apprentice_GM (Aug 12, 2008)

savageactor7 said:
			
		

> Apprentice how did you make out with your chain and bar problem? I was looking for your post a couple of days ago and couldn't find it ... just figured your back in business and all was well.



thx for your interest, i did some work on the bar, and when flipped, the new bottom is better than the old bottom, so it cuts straighter. Still has a tendency to want to twist tho, but now I know why - the chain a bit loose in the bar - I can counter slightly in technique and improve the cut.

However, no doubt the chain is too loose laterally in the slot, and it certainly seems it's because the stihl chain (5 on link) is .058" whereas bar is definitely .050" so chain sits a bit high. I haven't returned to dealer to confront yet - reluctant to.


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## kevin j (Aug 12, 2008)

haven’t returned to dealer to confront yet - reluctant to. 



understandable, but you are not being a jerk, nor accusing or attacking.
simply point out you were given the wrong part, want to get the right parts, that his error may have damaged your bar but that are willing to overlook that.  You have every right to get the part you paid for, and the expertise that the dealer is supposed to have when he gave you the part for the application/saw you told him. 

assertive, not aggressive, you have every right to get what you paid for. 
least that's what I pushed to my kids..... seems to have worked pretty well.

k


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## pdboilermaker (Aug 12, 2008)

Your chain is sharper on one side than the other as for the problems getting/finding chains we use baileysonline.com they are pros.  They can hook you up in no time at all.  They are pros


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## savageactor7 (Aug 13, 2008)

I wouldn't be reluctant to go back to the dealer...you're doing him the favor by bringing attention...in a subtle way...that he's putting the wrong loops in boxes. Trust me soon as you're out the door he's gonna recheck every box so that doesn't happen again. A lot of guys would raise hell...but I don't recommend that you do that cause it the long run dealers can be a big help with advice and what not. It's an asset you really want to cultivate. 

In a very polite way just bring the saw back to him and ask that he check it out cause that chain was not  cutting square right out of the box. Good luck brother and keep us posted.


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## Apprentice_GM (Aug 18, 2008)

pdboilermaker said:
			
		

> Your chain is sharper on one side than the other as for the problems getting/finding chains we use baileysonline.com they are pros.  They can hook you up in no time at all.  They are pros



pdboilermaker, that's simply not the case. As per mine and other earlier posts in this thread, it was doing that out of the box AND after a (shop) sharpen. The other posters suggesting the chain gauge was incorrect were far closer to the mark.

Also, I am Down Under so it isn't reasonable to use your suggested online retailer - postage would be a killer for a start.


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## Apprentice_GM (Aug 18, 2008)

savageactor7 said:
			
		

> I wouldn't be reluctant to go back to the dealer...you're doing him the favor by bringing attention...in a subtle way...that he's putting the wrong loops in boxes. Trust me soon as you're out the door he's gonna recheck every box so that doesn't happen again. A lot of guys would raise hell...but I don't recommend that you do that cause it the long run dealers can be a big help with advice and what not. It's an asset you really want to cultivate.
> 
> In a very polite way just bring the saw back to him and ask that he check it out cause that chain was not  cutting square right out of the box. Good luck brother and keep us posted.



Savageactor7, and others who have helped me through this issue, I did take it back to the dealer AGAIN today. I started by explaining what we've gone through already, and this time the dealer said he put the 0.058" gauge chain on my bar because my bar was worn and widened, and if he had fit the "correct" gauge it would be even more loose. This is crap and my level of trust in this dealer dropped markedly. I then asked about getting a new bar for my saw, so he looked up his catalogue and said he would order an 18" | .325 | 0.058" bar. I said why not get a 0.050" bar LIKE I ALREADY HAVE and he did a double take so I showed him my bar (AGAIN). He then said someone had fitted the incorrect bar to my saw as his catalogue said the the normal bar that came with my Husky 353XP was a 0.058" bar. I said to him it didn't matter what bar was fitted to the saw - as long as it was within Husky spec - the important thing was to match the chain to the bar. 

_*That's when I figured out what had gone wrong.*_

When I went in to buy my new chain, I took my saw and bar (and old chain) with me, and he looked up his catalog to see what chain I needed, then counted the teeth on my old chain, went and made up a new chain, then put it in the (wrong but doesn't matter) box. However, he never looked at my bar. His catalog - a Stihl chain catalog - said that the Husky 353XP w 18" bar usually came with a 0.058" gauge so that's what he made up. I, not knowing these finer points and trusting my dealer's knowledge, went and started cutting crooked curves through logs. In the process, because the chain was too wide a gauge for the bar, the bar was wearing and overheating and making the crooked cutting worse. I have now pretty much stuffed the bar, with it worn down on one side of one edge much more than the other.

The dealer tried to talk himself out of the mistake he has so obviously made, but I simply don't trust him any more. It turns out, he has sold the business a few weeks ago, and is in the process of handing over to a new guy. So he doesn't give a stuff about fixing the mistake, like replacing the chain and/or bar with new correct gear - that's the new guys problem.

So, in the end, I ordered a new bar and chain, and with the knowledge I now have about chains and bars - thanks to this forum - will ensure they are matched to each other and the saw when I pick them up. I decided to order a 0.058" bar so I can use the current, used, chain on the new bar as well as the new chain (I will then have a good chain and a not-so-good chain for the new bar). 

Finally, thanks so much for all your help, I am very confident I have identified and resolved the problem, and hope by leaving this post and thread others might be able to identify and/or avoid similar issues in future.

And of course I have learned some valuable lessons:
1) Don't trust dealers knowledge exclusively. They can make mistakes or can be ignorant and can be unwilling to make amends.
2) Go to the trouble to learn the specifics of chainsaw chain markings and part numbers to ensure they match manufacturer specifications for the saw.
3) If something appears off or wrong at first don't perservere and deal with it later. It will probably only get worse.
4) The chainsaw chain guage must match the chainsaw bar gauge, neither too small nor too large. In my case, I should have investigated first and therefore known a Stihl chain with "5" on the drive link was a 0.058" gauge and therefore not matching my 0.050" bar.

The annoying thing for me is that I have already learnt these lessons before but broke the rules this time. I take my car to a trusted mechanic for servicing because I don't have the time and expertise to learn and do all that stuff and thought I could do the same for my chainsaw. I also hate having to stop halfway through a task or project to fix or figure out a problem.


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## Apprentice_GM (Aug 18, 2008)

I was wondering if I can grind the old bar down to even it up, so even though I will only use it for cutting crap wood - wood with potential nails / wire / dirt / stones and things like stumps - it will still cut straighter than it does now.

I have an angle grinder and narrow - about 1" wide - bench grinder and some flat files. Any suggestions as to the best method to use, or even if it is worth it or not?


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## savageactor7 (Aug 18, 2008)

Well it's good that you finally got it all sorted out Apprentice ...very frustrating when something simple like removing a few trees turns into a goat screw and you can't lock down the problem. I can almost visualize the grim on your puss when you look to see the square cuts LOL...

...I've used a bench grinder on my bar to clean up the typical things from prolonged saw use but not to repair something like the uneven wear you describe but I'm sure if your careful and check for the squareness on the rails sure, why not?  

I'm surprised the dealer didn't offer to square up your bar with his grinder...hell that would just be a few minutes of his time. Good luck with your wood cutting.


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## Backroads (Aug 19, 2008)

Glad to hear this is rectified.  Just too bad the dealer won't make good on his mistake.  Key lesson for everyone to learn:

Get to know your equipment!!


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## Apprentice_GM (Aug 23, 2008)

Well I ground the bar down a little using a 1" bench grinder for the initial touch up, then a flat metal file for the rest. I definitely got the bar heaps better than the uneven wear state it was in, due to the mis-matched chain. I estimate one side was 2.5mm lower than the other before I started, I got it back to within 0.5mm, and the edge nice and flat across the slot (it had a bit of a burr and taper). So the old bar is in heaps better condition and will definitely serve me OK in cutting rubbish stumps and wood up.

What I'd like some more advice on is if I can swap chains across bars. Both chains are .325 | 72 teeth | 0.058" guage but the old chain has worn a bit from being used in the old bar, 0.050" guage. The new bar is 0.058" - I bought this guage hoping I could use the old chain in it if needs be, but having fitted it, it seems a bit loose (how loose is too loose laterally?).

Here are some pics to help - all chains were put on the bar on the saw and tensioned before photographing:

New oregon 0.058" bar with new Stihl 0.058" chain - perfect, reference pic:






New oregon 0.058" bar with old Stihl 0.058" chain - bit loose laterally but seems OK to cut with:





Old Husqvarna 0.050" bar with new Stihl 0.058" chain - first of all seems too high in slot (I wish I had been cluey enough when I bought the first 0.058" chain to realise this is too high and would cause all these problems, but I have learnt my lesson, and hope others can learn from my mistake), leading to sideways/lateral movement (which is the original cause of the problem in this thread) and second it will probably wear the bar and the chain unevenly and more than it should, so I think I will avoid this combo:





Old Husqvarna 0.050" bar with old Stihl 0.058" chain - tighter than old chain in new bar combo and I have already used combo:


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## Apprentice_GM (Aug 24, 2008)

Well I cut some wood today, felled 4 x conifer trees each with 3 trunks, and limbed and bucked half of it. The good news is, I did it with the old bar and chain, and it cuts straight again now  It's so nice to cut STRAIGHT through a trunk with a sharp chain . . . thanks for all your help on this.

If anyone still wants to give some advice on the previous post combo's I'd be glad to take it.


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## kevin j (Aug 25, 2008)

personally, now that you have a good bar and good chain, I'd not risk changing the wear patterns and messing up and starting the mess all over. Think of it sort of like a virus infecting the new combination.
For $10, buy more chains, use the old for fence rows and boundary trees. You really want a half dozen chains or more anyway....

kcj


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## Apprentice_GM (Aug 25, 2008)

kevin j said:
			
		

> For $10, buy more chains, use the old for fence rows and boundary trees. You really want a half dozen chains or more anyway....kcj



My chains cost $44 each (Stihl oilomatic3 0.325 0.058" 72 teeth) which with the exchange rate atm is ~US$39 each. I wouldn't mind chains at that price!

But I hear your advice, I will keep each combo separate (old bar/old chain and new bar/new chain) unless desparate in which case I will only do old chain onto new bar, to prevent new chain wearing badly or damaging old bar further. I doubt the old (0.058" guage) worn chain used in the 0.050" bar will damage the new bar - I'd only do that if desparate.

Just out of interest, what do you mean by fence rows and boundary trees? Are these trees more likely to have dirt in the bark from acting as windbreaks or something?


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## savageactor7 (Aug 25, 2008)

Trees along fence rows or boundary trees can have old barb wire fencing, insulaters and nails in them...back in the day some people instead of using fencing posts would use trees to put up fencing wire. Over time the tree grows around those saw hazzards so you can't see them. Often I use an old chain when cutting down a boundary tree at least for the 1st 5 or 6 ft of trunk...

...and the trees growing around houses can have them too with people hanging up bird houses and close lines etc.


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