# "Vent-Free" - emergency heat answer?



## rlah (Jan 7, 2014)

I've got a natural gas furnace (Carrier 80K BTU forced air)- clean, cheap and effective heat, IF
(1) we have electricity and
(2) there are no problems with the furnace

Now if the furnace quits working and we still have electricity, we can open our electric oven and keep our house adequately warm enough in an emergency.

But when the weather brings a wind chill of -50 °F and the power goes out (as it did on Sunday afternoon), then I have to think about emergency heat and I don't want to spend an "arm and a leg" doing it if I don't have to.  Our house (pull-together built 1980) is about 1250 ft2 main level with about 750 ft2 semi-finished basement.

I was thinking about all this early Sunday and figured I was stupid not to get some emergency heating source before the cold snap hit so I went to the hardware store (through the falling snow) and bought a ProCom 30,000 BTU "5 plaque vent-free infrared space heater" for a little over $200.

As it turned out, our power was only out 1-1/2 hours on Sunday and so we are riding out this near historic cold snap quite well.  The "vent-free" (VF) is out of the box sitting near my furnace in the basement with the plumbing ready to hook up to the gas pipe should the electricity go out for an extended period.

Since our electricity has continued be on since the Sunday power outage, I took a few hours yesterday reading the opinions and reports on "Vent-Free" on this forum and the ChimneySweepOnline site and am now confused which way to turn for an emergency heat source, since my aging wife is somewhat sensitive to "bad air".  Some years ago, I tested a Mr. Heater Big Buddy in our basement for its effectiveness for emergency heating... and I thought it was great.  But my wife came home and soon complained of the smell and some issues for breathing.  As I look at the ProCom heater, it appears to be identical in technology to the "Big Buddy".

I looked at the "DV" (or Direct Vent) units which are more preferred by this forum and was shocked at the cost compared to "VF", the cheapest seems to be the Williams unit at Home Depot, over $600 is cheapest... as I said before, I don't want to spend a lot of money for a few hours or a few days of an electrical outage.  Plus I have no way to install this in my basement unless there is a way to get a vent through a small basement window near the ceiling.  And I have no easy place to install it on the main ground floor except in a bedroom on the east end of the house.

Now I'm thinking of the other alternative of a portable generator from Harbor Freight sufficient to power my NG furnace in the case of power outage... but the drawbacks of that are the long term storage and maintenance required, not to speak of the cost. I figure the odds are about every 10 years that I might seriously need this thing...  The big advantage is clean, plentiful heating and extra electrical power for lighting.

But my thoughts are going back to seriously consider the "Vent-Free" heater.  Why?  Because (1) it's much cheaper and (2) I figure that if I install it in my basement that the worst of the "bad air" would rise to the main floor and we could live in the basement (with much less "bad air") comfortably for several days in an emergency...

Are there any out there experienced in using "Vent-Free" heaters for emergency heat, or occasionally heating their basements?


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## pen (Jan 7, 2014)

How about a generator?


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## Ehouse (Jan 7, 2014)

I just installed a high output VF fireplace in my folks' old house for emergency heat and quick warm up in the morning.  Man, does that thing throw heat!  I've been running it for a couple of hours at a time to work on the house with no descernible smell or other issues.


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## rlah (Jan 7, 2014)

Ehouse said:


> I've been running it for a couple of hours at a time to work on the house with no descernible smell or other issues.



This is the kind of feedback I'm looking for... I know there is a lot of negative feedback on this forum for VF, but I'm only wanting this for emergency needs.  



pen said:


> How about a generator?


I'm still researching generators... to add to my story, I tried the HF 2000W Power Inverter off my car battery for my forced-air furnace on Sunday during the power outage for the first time.  I was excited that it ran fine... for about 6 minutes.  Then the inverter kicked off... evidently too high of a continuous load, even though it got the blower motor started.  Now I'm not sure the 3200/4000W HF generator will work because I just read that it has 2 circuits that each can carry only 1/2 the rated load and it too might not carry the furnace load long term.  But that issue is for another forum...


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## Retired Guy (Jan 7, 2014)

I have been looking for a similar product for the past couple of years, Although I'd like a thermostatically controlled unit that could be set around 40 degrees to prevent frozen pipes.


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## Bad Wolf (Jan 7, 2014)

See if you can check your load with a Kill-o-watt meter.  Your basic 15 amp circut is only 1650 watts (110x15) so a 2000 watt inverter should handle it.
A 3200 watt generator should handle it no problem.

I can run my furnace (TARM excell), and 5 circulating pumps on a 600 watt inverter.


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## xtrordinair (Jan 7, 2014)

i have installed and used vent free for many years,there will be a slight odor especially if your on propane.i wouldnt hesitate to use one for supplemental heat or to knock the chill off in the cold mornings when you need extra heat.It will add a little moisture to the home also witch is nice.do yourself favor and stay away from the home store stuff its worth the little extra cost to get a model you can get repair parts for.


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## rlah (Jan 7, 2014)

Bad Wolf said:


> See if you can check your load with a Kill-o-watt meter.  Your basic 15 amp circut is only 1650 watts (110x15) so a 2000 watt inverter should handle it.
> A 3200 watt generator should handle it no problem.
> I can run my furnace (TARM excell), and 5 circulating pumps on a 600 watt inverter.



I just did check the furnace with my Kill-o-watt meter and found the max amps on blower motor startup was 8 amps, then dropped back to 4.5 amps.  The running wattage was ~ 480 watts.  So there seems to be something wrong with my HF inverter (bought July 2013) and I think I'm going to try to see about warranty replacement first.


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## rlah (Jan 7, 2014)

xtrordinair said:


> i have installed and used vent free for many years,there will be a slight odor especially if your on propane.i wouldnt hesitate to use one for supplemental heat or to knock the chill off in the cold mornings when you need extra heat.It will add a little moisture to the home also witch is nice.do yourself favor and stay away from the home store stuff its worth the little extra cost to get a model you can get repair parts for.


Thx for the feedback.  I agree on the moisture, I'm running a Lasko humidifier 100% of the time now just to keep the house from getting too dry.  So I figure if I had to run the "vent-free" heater, then I would turn off the humidifier.
And since I'm Natural Gas, you're saying the odor would even be less offensive than LP.  But I'm not sure about your warning on the "home store stuff" since their price is so low... I figure my cheap ProCom would suffice quite nicely for the few hours per year I might need it in emergencies.


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## Stogiesaurus (Jan 7, 2014)

rlah said:


> I just did check the furnace with my Kill-o-watt meter and found the max amps on blower motor startup was 8 amps, then dropped back to 4.5 amps.  The running wattage was ~ 480 watts.  So there seems to be something wrong with my HF inverter (bought July 2013) and I think I'm going to try to see about warranty replacement first.



Did you consider the current draw from the battery?  Even at 480 Watts your drawing about 46 amps from the battery?

P=V*I => I = 480W/12VDC  => 40 Amps / .87 efficiency => 45.9 Amps

You have to consider what size cable were you using between the battery and inverter and also the length of the cable run.  You may have been starving the inverter.  For that amount of current a 6 AWG conductor would be marginal.

Just something to think about.


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## rlah (Jan 7, 2014)

Stogiesaurus said:


> Did you consider the current draw from the battery?  Even at 480 Watts your drawing about 46 amps from the battery?
> P=V*I => I = 480W/12VDC  => 40 Amps / .87 efficiency => 45.9 Amps
> You have to consider what size cable were you using between the battery and inverter and also the length of the cable run.  You may have been starving the inverter.  For that amount of current a 6 AWG conductor would be marginal.
> Just something to think about.



You make a very good point, and I had made some cables cut 30" long out of very heavy duty jumper cables with heavy duty ends.  I did this because my first try with standard length jumper cables was insufficient to carry the load, the inverter could not start the blower motor. 
I might add that the HF inverter was only showing about 3-4 lights lit out of 10 lights on the load meter when the furnace seemed to be running OK.
I really thought I had the feeder cable problem solved with only 30" lengths...  it's been awhile but I seemed to recall I figured I had #4 or #2 AWG cables...


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## xtrordinair (Jan 7, 2014)

rlah said:


> I figure my cheap ProCom would suffice quite nicely for the few hours per year I might need it in emergencies. rlah


it will till something fails and you might as well throw it away and buy another.We sell a vent free thats less than hundred dollars over the home stores and it comes with a sit valve and common easy to get pilot parts.


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