# Home Insurance, Where are we headed ?



## Keener (May 7, 2015)

New member and first post so apologies in advance if this appears in the wrong location or upside down.

Just going through the home insurance renewal thing and finding two things;
1. Ins companies will not sell a policy for homes with entirely or primarily wood heat, or
2. Big additional fee and ever higher premiums if they will.
My question is this: Are we going to reach a point where a person who wants ( and loves ) wood heat will not be able to find an insurer?


----------



## pen (May 7, 2015)

This seems to be a regional problem for some folks.  Where I am, there's no issue at all for wood heat so long as the stove is installed properly and UL approved.


----------



## moey (May 7, 2015)

Most folks have some other type of heat that has a dial on it. Even if the dial is never put in the ON position.


----------



## Keener (May 7, 2015)

True about the dial controlled heat. Makes sense to have something that kicks on automatically to save the plumbing in those really cold regions of N. America. Here in S.W British Columbia we would very rarely have a cold snap that would freeze indoor plumbing. This ties in with Pen's comment above in that insurance should be less an issue here than colder climes. I am beginning to suspect an urban verses rural issue. Although if you stepped onto my property (10 acres of trees) you would say it is rural, the greater surrounding area is urban.
Can I deal with a more "rural" insurance company, hmmmmmm?


----------



## pen (May 7, 2015)

My buddy has owned 2 homes with entirely wood heat, but they were outside boilers.  He had no problems.

Another only has his wood stove, but had a large enough electric service panel that he was able to add baseboard electric to the home for back-up, unexpected trips out of town, etc.  I'll have to ask him if doing that saved him on insurance.

In all, I can't suggest any companies as I'm not familiar with those in Canada, but would recommend shopping around.


----------



## BrotherBart (May 7, 2015)

In Virginia insurance companies won't insure a home with only wood heat. Since I own this joint I kinda defy them to cancel and they don't seem to want to. They don't have that "we will tell on you to the mortgage company" hammer to hit me with.


----------



## DougA (May 7, 2015)

The OP is Cdn. - that says it all.

Here's the problem in Canada and some other jurisdictions. Insurance companies do not want to insure higher risk homes since they may actually have a loss. They want to insure good people who will not have a loss. Wood heat is considered 'borderline'. They will insure it if you have the wood heat system inspected by a WETT certified tech.  If you pass inspection and the house burns down due to your wood stove, the insurance company then claims the loss from the WETT inspector's insurance. Do you smell a scam???

So ... you need to install a few electric baseboard heaters which is your 'primary heat'.  This should cost under $100. Set them on as low as possible and they should cost zero in hydro but they will come on in an emergency if the wood stove fails and the hydro is still working. Smell another scam??

Tell the insurance that you burn less than 3 cords of firewood and that your primary heat is electric.

Problem solved. You owe me a beer - payable next time I'm in BC.  Not likely anytime soon.


----------



## BrotherBart (May 7, 2015)

Or just pay off the joint and tell them to go pound sand like I did.


----------



## DougA (May 7, 2015)

BrotherBart said:


> Or just pay off the joint and tell them to go pound sand like I did.


Ahh . .but all those rich insurance people would have to find a real job.


----------



## BrotherBart (May 7, 2015)

I called the Allstate agent to tell him he was the worst spammer I have and to knock it off. Emails out the wazoo wanting to meet and re-evaluate my coverage. The phone ringing on my birthday with a recording of him and his office staff singing happy birthday did it. Told him that if that happened one more time I am cancelling the house and the cars.


----------



## BrotherBart (May 7, 2015)

DougA said:


> Ahh . .but all those rich insurance people would have to find a real job.



Funny. I retired from Mobil Oil and my SIL retired from Aetna. For years our tradition when we get together has been that she gets the first ten minutes to cuss oil companies and then I get the next ten to cuss insurance companies. 

Then we go to dinner and laugh a lot.


----------



## Ashful (May 7, 2015)

pen said:


> This seems to be a regional problem for some folks.  Where I am, there's no issue at all for wood heat so long as the stove is installed properly and UL approved.


No trouble with having multiple wood stoves here, but I do believe it would be a problem for the insurance companies if the wood stoves were my ONLY form of heat.


----------



## Highbeam (May 8, 2015)

Ashful said:


> No trouble with having multiple wood stoves here, but I do believe it would be a problem for the insurance companies if the wood stoves were my ONLY form of heat.



And really, I believe that everyone ought to have a backup source of automated heat. Things happen like sickness, emergency travel, stove failure, burn bats, run out of wood, etc.


----------



## Keener (May 8, 2015)

I'd love to pay off the house and tell the insurance company to jump in the lake. Reality is that unless a box full of cash falls out of the sky, ( just as likely as a lottery win), I will have to deal with them for a while. The problem with putting in some baseboards and telling them it is the primary source of heat is that you give the company a good reason to deny your claim when they investigate. Don't think they make billions by being stupid. I am not sure but it may be that the new smart meters here in B.C can tell not only how much power you use but also what the load is, ie resistance heating.
I don't mind paying a reasonable premium for the use of the stoves, just wondering what to do when/ if I can't get insurance.


----------



## KB007 (May 8, 2015)

DougA said:


> The OP is Cdn. - that says it all.
> 
> Here's the problem in Canada and some other jurisdictions. Insurance companies do not want to insure higher risk homes since they may actually have a loss. They want to insure good people who will not have a loss. Wood heat is considered 'borderline'. They will insure it if you have the wood heat system inspected by a WETT certified tech.  If you pass inspection and the house burns down due to your wood stove, the insurance company then claims the loss from the WETT inspector's insurance. Do you smell a scam???
> 
> ...



+1 - DougA nailed it.  In Canada the Ins crooks, er companies want you to have a primary heat source that is not wood. Period. I have a hi eff prop[ane furnace.  It gets used about 6 times a year.  No issues.  Only thing State Farm did was ask for Wett cert for each stove and actually had someone come and take pictures for the LR insert.


----------



## billb3 (May 8, 2015)

Keener said:


> New member and first post so apologies in advance if this appears in the wrong location or upside down.
> 
> Just going through the home insurance renewal thing and finding two things;
> 1. Ins companies will not sell a policy for homes with entirely or primarily wood heat, or
> ...



We could  reach a point where a person who wants ( and loves ) ONLY  wood heat will not be able to find an insurer .

Did someone promise you that if you liked your wood stove you could keep your wood stove ?


----------



## Jack Fate (May 8, 2015)

BrotherBart said:


> In Virginia insurance companies won't insure a home with only wood heat. Since I own this joint I kinda defy them to cancel and they don't seem to want to. They don't have that "we will tell on you to the mortgage company" hammer to hit me with.



It would seem that they could refuse to pay a claim if they they could connect it to your wood stove & their policy against them . Not to mention the fact that you are aware of this.

Just saying


----------



## DougA (May 8, 2015)

Keener said:


> The problem with putting in some baseboards and telling them it is the primary source of heat is that you give the company a good reason to deny your claim when they investigate. Don't think they make billions by being stupid. I am not sure but it may be that the new smart meters here in B.C can tell not only how much power you use but also what the load is, ie resistance heating.



My insurer is well aware that I use the stove extensively. If you have baseboards that are hooked up and permanent, that by default, becomes your primary heat in their minds. Your best bet is to contact multiple agents and discuss this with them. You DO NOT EVER want to have your insurance company refuse your insurance policy due to your heating problem. Once that happens, you are red flagged for at least 6 years and will have problem getting insurance at any price.

What the real issue is the definition of 'primary heat'.  As long as you are honest about having baseboards, you should be fine. Whether you use them much is not the issue, it's whether they are hooked up and able to work.

You really do not have a lot of choice. If you have a mortgage, your mortgage company has the right to call your mortgage the minute you lose house insurance, it will be in the fine print, guaranteed.


----------



## jharkin (May 8, 2015)

LIke others, my insureer (Amica) is well aware that I have and use the stove, and that I also have and use two 200- year old open fireplaces.

But I also have traditional thermostat controlled heat.  Like mentioned above, their concern is that if wood is all you have and you go away on a trip mid winter, will your pipes  freeze, burst and cause flood damage?


I know its easy to get bent out of shape that an ins co made a profit (crooks!) or that they have the gall to refuse to cover what they consider high risk activities, but at the end of they day they are businesses that exist to make a profit.  If they pay out more in claims then they take in through premiums then they will go out of business. period. So either they put in restrictions like this or they charge us all a lot more.

As customers of those insurance companies we are in effect all pooling our funds together to hedge against being liable for a big loss.You have to ask yourself are you willing to take that risk? Sure you could dump the policy the minute you pay off the note, but what happens if your house burns down, do you have the cash to rebuild?  Or if somebody breaks their leg on your icy walkway and sues, can you afford to pay the settlement?


----------



## Ashful (May 8, 2015)

billb3 said:


> Did someone promise you that if you liked your wood stove you could keep your wood stove ?


----------



## Keener (May 8, 2015)

Interesting that there seems to be more of an issue with Canadian vs American Ins. Companies. My impression was/is that most of the policy structure is created in the U.S and we follow along.
For instance, the companies I have talked to tell me that all policies are written using (square footage times X dollars) which to me seems to be new in the last 6 or 7 years or so. The resulting "replacement values" seem far too high and as a result more expensive policies. I was of the impression this was common to both countries.

Good point about the WETT insurance taking a hit, I had never heard that before. I will ask some questions of Mr. Google on that topic.
Also good question about what is "primary".  Is is by hours used, percentage of the year, BTU's produced, I could argue the sun provides more BTU's per year toward heating this place than wood does.
Has the primary vs secondary thing been tested in court at some point ?

Too many questions I know, my head hurts, gotta go outside and hit something with a maul.


----------



## DougA (May 8, 2015)

You are in Canada, so yes, your insurance is regulated by Prov. authorities. but is similar across the country.

The problem you are having with valuation is the same as my experience since I built 31 yrs. ago. They base everything on what the cost is to rebuild 'new'.  I built most of my house, so my cost of construction was low so I had to fight this forever. Didn't matter, I lost.  If you insure it too low, they will base any claim on co-insured values.  So if your house is worth 200,000 but you insure it for 100,000 and have a $10,000 claim, you will get 50% of your claim because you are insuring 50% of the value of the house. You must have the insurance at 80% or higher to avoid this.  I had one claim 2 years ago when 2 tornadoes went through our place. Hundreds of properties damaged in our area. Zero damage to the house but it brought down our hydro pole & line. A week later and $6,000. and we were hooked up again. So I got $5,000. payout (deductible) but paid in the range of $40,000 in insurance premiums over 31 years. SUCKS.

I don't know the definition of 'primary'.  I know from my own inquiries and those Cdns who post here that there is some flexibility.  The other posters have it correct IMHO, they want to see a reliable source of heat other than wood.  You are best to call various agents in your area like I posted and ask questions.  I'm sure there must be other stoves in your area and the local agents will know best.  I would NOT use an on-line company for this as I know for sure most of them I have contacted will say NO to any variation of normal.  Been there, got 'no' multiple times.  Ask neighbours who have wood stoves.

As far as other questions, all I can add is that my agent called me when I filled out the insurance form that requested full info on the stove. I had listed 2 2/3 cords per years and he thought that was excessive. I discussed it with him and he put it through and I have not heard back - yet anyway. The WETT info can be accessed on their web site and I had a long not so nice discussion with the head office on their requirements. I wanted to put in a Woodstock stove that was UL approved but not ULC. Can't be done unless you use the 'generic' code requirements which are absurd for a very good, new stove. There is no way to win. You are fighting the guys that have all the tools.

Bottom line with insurance is that you cannot lie. You can easily state that your 'normal' use of wood is different from last season, which was particularly cold. That is not a lie, just a 'variation of seasonal thruths'. 

EDIT. I know about the insurance on WETT inspectors because I knew one really good home inspector that I called to do my stove. He stopped doing WETT inspections due to the crazy high insurance costs he had to pay. Wasn't making any profit.  He explained the situation to me. Sad, because he knew his stuff and many inspectors do not.


----------



## Keener (May 8, 2015)

DougA, really appreciate the benefit of your experience and patience in taking the time to share it. My wife says I make other peoples head hurt more often than my own.
I will attempt some math at some point to see if my hydro consumption ( resistance heating ) creates more BTU,s than my wood use.
Hmmmmm, lets see, 5 cords per year fir X 64,000,000 BTU,s per cord................ minus 40% flue losses............... hmmmmmmm, have to get back to you.


----------



## DougA (May 8, 2015)

If you already have resistance heating, then that is your primary heat. Nothing more need be said.  Don't overthink it.

From what I understand (this is free advice and worth exactly what I charge) the insurance company will not be concerned unless you have a loss that is directly related to a fire caused by either altering your wood heat system in an unapproved way after it is inspected or any other code violation, such as having an bookcase 12" from your stove.


----------



## bag of hammers (May 8, 2015)

DougA said:


> EDIT. I know about the insurance on WETT inspectors because I knew one really good home inspector that I called to do my stove. He stopped doing WETT inspections due to the crazy high insurance costs he had to pay. Wasn't making any profit.  He explained the situation to me. Sad, because he knew his stuff and many inspectors do not.



Heard this as well from an inspector - WETT inspection is a liability / risk transfer thing.   Apparently they're on the nut if there's a fire.   Insurance demanded WETT last year - first time ever, same equipment, no changes to anything - but no choice in the matter.   I get to pay for a ticket that lets them off the hook if there's a claim?   Somethin' ain't right..


----------



## Keener (May 10, 2015)

I have appreciated all the input and will be installing baseboards. I was not clear when I mentioned the resistance heating, what I was thinking of was the heating that is a byproduct of any electrical consumption. If you purchase 55 kwh per month my guess is that 80% of that turns into heat inside your home ( less if you are forced to buy the idiotic florescent lights).
Here in B.C they are trying to do away with the incandescent bulbs which provide light and heat. 
We have been in this place two years and the former owner had cobbled together a wood/oil fired hot water system that pumped to the house into radiators. 
Good idea had it been done properly and they must have spent a lot of money on all the copper piping alone ( lots of 1 1/2 inch pipe and valves). We have removed some rads already and just use the stoves, so much simpler and no electricity needed. 
DougA, you mentioned tornadoes, I was in the Barrie area when a nasty twister went through. I had never seen a sky that color of very angry green before, 1985 I think.


----------



## maple1 (May 11, 2015)

I'm a little late to this party, but will add my CDN experience.

I only had to tell my insurance guy what I had for heating. The original answer 20 years ago was a wood/oil combo boiler. No discussion of primary/secondary - seems as long as there was something that could function automatically, no issues. No more questions on wood.

Over the years, any further info sharing, questions, or policy update stuff (all originating from them) was concerned with the oil side. Mainly condition of the oil tank. (Which is another ball of worms all together...)

When I overhauled the heating system 3 years ago, I called them again before really getting into it to make sure what I was going to do was good. Which was electric boiler, and wood boiler, two separate units. Only comment then was make sure the boiler has a CSA sticker. So still no discussions of primary/secondary, or my chimney or inspections of it (they do know it is Stainless 7" 'Class A' from the original install 20 years ago). Not even any questions on it (new system) being professionally installed.

So I think as long as you have a heating source that can operate on its own (without a daily manual feeding), with a thermostat, there shouldn't really be much of an issue and it shouldn't really matter which gets used how much. Stoves (space heaters) may be different, not sure there.


----------



## dougstove (May 24, 2015)

I am frustrated that most blocks in my town have had at least one oil leak from an oil fired system.
Right now there is a remediation in progress costing > $500,000 (more than the purchase value of the two houses involved).
Yet oil heat does not incur an insurance premium, just mandated tank replacements, probably more often than needed.
I do not understand why the insurance companies are letting this go.


----------



## Ashful (May 24, 2015)

What's the tank replacement interval?  Mine looks a little sad, probably none-too new.  Of course, I thought the same of the two in my last house, in 1998... still holding without trouble.


----------



## maple1 (May 25, 2015)

dougstove said:


> I am frustrated that most blocks in my town have had at least one oil leak from an oil fired system.
> Right now there is a remediation in progress costing > $500,000 (more than the purchase value of the two houses involved).
> Yet oil heat does not incur an insurance premium, just mandated tank replacements, probably more often than needed.
> I do not understand why the insurance companies are letting this go.


 
Yes indeed.

I thought I might get a break on my rates since I was getting rid of all my oil stuff. But that was not the case. Also asked my insurance fellow that one before I got into my changes - nope.

Thought that was a head scratcher...

Not sure what the typical interval is. Ours was 17 years old when I pulled it out, I think I was 'due' for a new one at 20 although it was still as solid after 17 years as when it was new. My parents had to get a new one put in around 8 years ago, when they changed insurance companies. They did that using a pro. Then the insurance company told them they had to replace it again, 6 years later. Sillyness.


----------



## Ashful (May 25, 2015)

Full of oil, I would think your oil tank not likely to have any hidden rust inside, so is it right to assume condition can be gauged entirely from outward appearance?


----------



## peakbagger (May 25, 2015)

Oil tanks rust from the inside even if they are full of oil. There is no visual evidence until they start dripping or someone managed to accidently puncture them by pushing something underneath it.


----------



## moey (May 25, 2015)

maple1 said:


> Yes indeed.
> 
> I thought I might get a break on my rates since I was getting rid of all my oil stuff. But that was not the case. Also asked my insurance fellow that one before I got into my changes - nope.
> 
> ...



In the states most home owners insurance does not cover cleanup from a oil spill. Most folks don't realize they need to purchase additional insurance to cover that.


----------



## jharkin (May 27, 2015)

Keener said:


> 80% of that turns into heat inside your home ( less if you are forced to buy the idiotic florescent lights).
> Here in B.C they are trying to do away with the incandescent bulbs which provide light and heat.



Im stirring the pot on purpose 

80%???  Try 98%.

Incandescent light bulbs are a 150 year old technology that is *2%* efficient at its primary job of  creating light. thats right, two percent.  And has not changed significantly since it was first invented.

Just imagine if your car was 2% efficient.  A 20 gallon fill up would barely make it to the nearest  gas station to fill up again.  People wouldn't stand for it, there would be rioting in the streets. But yet for some reason they get up in arms about replacing ancient lighing technology with something better, thats cheaper to operate, and has the double benefit of not making your air conditioning work harder in the summer (costing even more money)...

CFL is better but still only a stopgap... the real game changer is LED, and on sales I've been able to get LEDs for as low as $2 a piece.  1/10 the power consumption and 10 times the lifespan. whats not to like?   

unless you just like flushing money down the drain...


----------



## dougstove (May 27, 2015)

> unless you just like flushing money down the drain..


In a net air-conditioning region, fair enough.
But we had a program in Canada to replace the incandescent light bulbs in Nunavut with CFL bulbs, when the electricity is generated by shipped in diesel and the houses are heated...electrically.  Probably electric resistant heat powered by diesel-generated electricity is nuts in itself, but spending money to swap out incandescents for CFL was lipstick on a pig.

In my basement (baseline electric heat) there are only 5-10 days per year when I do not welcome some heat.
So in the continental USA, LED probably make unambiguous good sense almost everywhere.  But in the great white north, the situation is more nuanced.


----------



## Ashful (May 27, 2015)

jharkin said:


> Just imagine if your car was 2% efficient.  A 20 gallon fill up would barely make it to the nearest  gas station to fill up again.  People wouldn't stand for it, there would be rioting in the streets. But yet for some reason they get up in arms about replacing ancient lighing technology with something better, thats cheaper to operate, and has the double benefit of not making your air conditioning work harder in the summer (costing even more money)...


Gas costs real money, on the order of a few hundred dollars per month for most driving a less efficient vehicle.  So does running AC.  By comparison, the economics supporting more efficient lighting are very weak, and in my case actually negative.


----------



## jharkin (Jun 1, 2015)

Fair enough...  I know in our case, switching most of the house to CFL and then LED didn't make a huge difference in the bills (TV, computers and that energy hog dehumidifier in the basement account for most of it) - but along with insulation it has allowed us to cool the the entire house in summer with just 3 bedroom size window AC's - where in the past it would have taken 4 or 5.

I know what you are saying about he payback... like other I pick my battles with them. My first LEDs where PAR30 downlights. Even at $20 a piece they where no brainers as they are the integrated trim type and I was replacing the can lights anyway, so vs $20 on a trim plus more for a bulb they where actually cheaper on day 1, and the lower power consumption helped with heat loss through the cathedral ceiling and reduced my ice damming.

Replacing 60 watt desk lamp fixtures I did more for the better color and lack of warm up time.

Some fixtures, like the exterior motion sensor floods I still use incan because like you say the savings is not there.



And to some extend I probably do it to feel better about being wasteful elsewhere, like commuting in a 19mpg truck, and listening to music on a vintage tube hi-fi, err space heater


----------



## blades (Jun 1, 2015)

Love those space heater stereos- much warmer sound and no clipping in the low end as is quite rampent with solid state.  SS is much cleaner in the upper frequency ranges depending on the quality of the internal components.


----------



## Ashful (Jun 1, 2015)

Your truck gets 19 mpg?!?

<-- 13 mpg


----------



## Ashful (Nov 15, 2018)

Perhaps you need to review the rules about advertising on this forum.


----------



## wooduser (Dec 9, 2018)

BrotherBart said:


> Or just pay off the joint and tell them to go pound sand like I did.




I paid off my house after twelve years in 1997.

Three or four years ago,  a stone kicked up by my power lawn mower broke the window in a neighbor's car across the street,  and the insurance company paid the claim.  Then they cancelled my insurance. 

I've been carrying my own risk since then


----------



## Ashful (Dec 10, 2018)

wooduser said:


> I've been carrying my own risk since then


That takes some brass cahones.  No worries of potential 6- or 7-figure liabilities?


----------



## blades (Dec 10, 2018)

A number of years ago my company ins. carrier refused to renew - underwritter didn't like the name of the company is what I was told.   Ins cost have been steadily increasing to the point of $10 a day.  ( ya 3600 /year) on a one man shop, and this isn't retail. Nor is it a stand alone building , I just rent space. The new carrier I got last year just sent a non-renewal letter ( no claims in 20 + years).  Too bad as it was under $1000 for the year.  My home insurance is almost double my property taxes and I definitely am not in an urban environment. Frankly I get better service from Guido down on the corner than the corporations.


----------



## CaptSpiff (Dec 14, 2018)

wooduser said:


> Three or four years ago, a stone kicked up by my power lawn mower broke the window in a neighbor's car across the street, and the insurance company paid the claim.  Then they cancelled my insurance.


Can you be a bit more descriptive on the cost of repair? I know side windows on cars can get pricey, with the power regulators and all, but how much over your deductible?


----------



## wooduser (Dec 15, 2018)

CaptSpiff said:


> Can you be a bit more descriptive on the cost of repair? I know side windows on cars can get pricey, with the power regulators and all, but how much over your deductible?


I didn't pay a deductible,  since it wasn't my property that was damaged.

Similarly,  the neighbor made a claim under their auto insurance policy and that insurance company presumably got paid off by my homerowner's insurance company.  I never saw a bill.  


What does it cost to replace a side window in a car  ----perhaps a power window?  I'd guess several hundred dollars.


----------



## CaptSpiff (Dec 15, 2018)

wooduser said:


> I didn't pay a deductible,  since it wasn't my property that was damaged.
> 
> Similarly,  the neighbor made a claim under their auto insurance policy and that insurance company presumably got paid off by my homerowner's insurance company.  I never saw a bill.


I get it: subrogation. I've dealt with that. I was not aware the deductible was not always in play.


----------



## SpaceBus (Dec 15, 2018)

pen said:


> My buddy has owned 2 homes with entirely wood heat, but they were outside boilers.  He had no problems.
> 
> Another only has his wood stove, but had a large enough electric service panel that he was able to add baseboard electric to the home for back-up, unexpected trips out of town, etc.  I'll have to ask him if doing that saved him on insurance.
> 
> In all, I can't suggest any companies as I'm not familiar with those in Canada, but would recommend shopping around.



We have electrical baseboard heaters with the wood stove being primary heat, it was very difficult for us to find an insurance policy for our house. Admittedly the stove that was in the house when we bought it was from 1975. We just replaced it a few days ago, but we had to take a second floor deck off of the house for repairs, so we will wait to tell insurance about the new stove until we finish fixing the house. Eventually we plan on getting a mini split so we can claim it along with the baseboard heat as our primary heat, and say the wood stove is supplemental. This should save us a lot on insurance.


----------



## SpaceBus (Dec 15, 2018)

DougA said:


> The OP is Cdn. - that says it all.
> 
> Here's the problem in Canada and some other jurisdictions. Insurance companies do not want to insure higher risk homes since they may actually have a loss. They want to insure good people who will not have a loss. Wood heat is considered 'borderline'. They will insure it if you have the wood heat system inspected by a WETT certified tech.  If you pass inspection and the house burns down due to your wood stove, the insurance company then claims the loss from the WETT inspector's insurance. Do you smell a scam???
> 
> ...




Our insurance didn't care about our baseboard heaters. My wife didn't want to say they were primary heat, mainly because they can't be in this climate, but she lied about our dogs to secure the policy. This woman drives me crazy sometimes!


----------



## SpaceBus (Dec 15, 2018)

Ashful said:


> Your truck gets 19 mpg?!?
> 
> <-- 13 mpg



I'm averaging 22-23 in my 06 six speed ram 3500 4x4 quad cab Dually long bed. That's mixed town and rural roads!


----------



## maple1 (Dec 15, 2018)

SpaceBus said:


> Our insurance didn't care about our baseboard heaters. My wife didn't want to say they were primary heat, mainly because they can't be in this climate, but she lied about our dogs to secure the policy. This woman drives me crazy sometimes!



That is not making sense to me. In many homes, baseboard is the only source of heat. So when going to the insurance company, that should be termed primary, and the stove secondary.


----------



## SpaceBus (Dec 15, 2018)

maple1 said:


> That is not making sense to me. In many homes, baseboard is the only source of heat. So when going to the insurance company, that should be termed primary, and the stove secondary.



I just asked her and she tried to claim it as primary heat, they still didn't care. It could have been the age of the stove (1975) that pushed the rates up. She also has some dings from her ex husband making home insurance claims before they got divorced that still reflect on her record. Hopefully in a few years we can get a better policy.

Another thing I should add is where we live. It seems that insurance is a bit higher here in downeast Maine regardless, and worse for us as we are very close to the water, less than 1/8 mile I think.


----------



## maple1 (Dec 15, 2018)

Might be worth checking out another insurance company. Electric baseboard is very common as primary & often only source of heat. Most of very cold Quebec is that way actually - due to cheap electric rates. So them not paying attention to it would make me not very trusting of them.


----------



## Ashful (Dec 15, 2018)

SpaceBus said:


> I'm averaging 22-23 in my 06 six speed ram 3500 4x4 quad cab Dually long bed. That's mixed town and rural roads!



Diesel or petrol?  My wife can get my truck up to 20 mpg on her longer country-road commute, but I average 14 in the same truck on my shorter (and probably more-aggressively-driven) commute.   One problem I have is that the vehicle is just barely reaching operating temperature on a cold day, when I arrive at my destination and shut it off.

This is a RAM 1500 4x4 crew cab with 5.7 Hemi, 8 speed and the 3.92 posi rear.  My old truck, same model and weight, but 10 years older and manual trans, was doing 13 mpg.


----------



## SpaceBus (Dec 15, 2018)

Ashful said:


> Diesel or petrol?  My wife can get my truck up to 20 mpg on her longer country-road commute, but I average 14 in the same truck on my shorter (and probably more-aggressively-driven) commute.   One problem I have is that the vehicle is just barely reaching operating temperature on a cold day, when I arrive at my destination and shut it off.
> 
> This is a RAM 1500 4x4 crew cab with 5.7 Hemi, 8 speed and the 3.92 posi rear.  My old truck, same model and weight, but 10 years older and manual trans, was doing 13 mpg.



Sorry, I meant to specify, it's diesel with a 3.73 posi rear. The new 8 spd transmissions really are great. I've driven a Challenger with it at an auto show and was very impressed.

I have the same issue when my truck is cold, which is usually is around here. I've driven mostly highway on this tank, and the average since three tanks ago is 23.8 currently. I restarted my average before we left NC with the Uhaul hitched up and averaged 18 all the way here.


----------



## wooduser (Dec 15, 2018)

SpaceBus said:


> she lied about our dogs to secure the policy.




What didn't they like about your dogs,  or about dogs in general?


----------



## wooduser (Dec 15, 2018)

My father had oil heat,  and tank insurance so the oil dealer would replace the tank at no cost if it leaked.

After forty years of use,  my father noticed that the oil dealer auto fill program was adding oil in the late summer,  after filling uop at the end of the heating season.

The dealer sent a repairman out,  who pumped water out of the tank and commented  "Just a little condensation in the tank!"


After this had been repeated several times,  my father took his garden hose a ADDED A LOT OF WATER to the tank before the repairman came out to check on it again.

The repairman pumped,  and pumped and PUMPED!  to get rid of the water!

In the end he said,  "Well,  it can't be condensation!"  They replaced the tank a few days later.  There were dozens of holes corroded through the tank.


----------



## SpaceBus (Dec 15, 2018)

wooduser said:


> What didn't they like about your dogs,  or about dogs in general?



A German Shepherd (hard to see in my avatar at the bottom right), Pitbull of some sort, and a Chihuahua who they obviously don't care about. Every insurance agency balked at the German Shepherd, much less the pitbull. We couldn't even find a place to rent because of our dogs and spent the last two years living in an RV in NC saving to buy a place in Maine.


----------



## CaptSpiff (Dec 15, 2018)

SpaceBus said:


> I'm averaging 22-23 in my 06 six speed ram 3500 4x4 quad cab Dually long bed. That's mixed town and rural roads!


Your truck must be a NASA experiment, or you are reporting gallons per mile. 

My best friend had a similar dually with a stump puller rear end in VT. He announced proudly once that HE was buying beer that night. The occasion was that he broke out of single digits on his fill-up. He only ever bought beer that once.


----------



## greg13 (Dec 15, 2018)

Insurance companies are like casinos... the house ALWAYS wins!


----------



## SpaceBus (Dec 15, 2018)

CaptSpiff said:


> Your truck must be a NASA experiment, or you are reporting gallons per mile.
> 
> My best friend had a similar dually with a stump puller rear end in VT. He announced proudly once that HE was buying beer that night. The occasion was that he broke out of single digits on his fill-up. He only ever bought beer that once.



I don't know what rear end he had, but the six speed let's me keep the RPM pretty low unless I'm on the freeway. Even then I still get good mileage unloaded. I used to have an 08 Nissan Titan that NEVER exceeded 15 MPG. It didn't matter if it were loaded up, empty, driven hard, driven easy, highway or surface streets. Your friend sounds like he has a heavy foot. I do dig into the accelerator, by only once a twice per day. I like to go as fast as the next guy, maybe even more, but I'd rather be on a bike or in a much lighter car for that.


----------

