# Quadrafire santa fe not feeding pellets



## 55chevy (Sep 24, 2013)

My Quadrafire pellet stove stopped feeding pellets.  I have done a lot of testing and research.  So far I have checked and bypassed both snap discs and the Vacuum switch.  I swapped the control board with one a friend has in his quadrafire and my control board worked in his and his did not work in my stove..

The board does power up and cycles through the 6 blue light blinks a few times and the convection blower comes on

Neither the auger or the heater come on and I verified the auger works if it gets power.  No power coming from pin 10 of the board.

Call light is on and if I heat the thermo coupler I get the green light on the control board. 

Took the wiring harness box (where the controller bus is located) off the back and made sure no broken wires.

Since the control board is not sending power to the Auger and it worked in another stove it must not see a signal it needs.

I would really appreciate any ideas because I am fresh out.


Thanks


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## SmokeyTheBear (Sep 24, 2013)

With the power off and the stove unplugged disconnect and reconnect every connection on those snap discs one at a time to clear any possible corrosion on the contacts, pay attention to all three snap discs do the same with the vacuum switch connections.

Also does the combustion blower ever start up when you hit the start button?


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## Don2222 (Sep 24, 2013)

Hello
I rebuilt 2 Santa Fe's and still own a Contour.

There are 3 snap discs, did you check all three?
Also, I would pull out the Auger and buff it out so there are no snags or jams.

   Snap Disc #1 (Convection Blower) 110°F
Snap disc #1 is located on the right side of the appliance on
the bottom of the heat exchanger box. There are 2 purple
wires connected to it. This snap disc turns the convection
blower on and off as needed. Power is always present at
snap disc #1.

   Snap Disc #2 (Fuel Delivery Interrupt) 250°F
Snap disc #2 is also located on the back side of the feed drop
tube. There are 2 orange wires connected to it. This snap disc
will turn off the feed system which will turn off the appliance
if an overfire condition should occur or if the convection
blower should fail to operate. If this occurs the snap disc will
automatically reset itself.

   Snap Disc #3 (Back Burn Protector) 250°F
Snap disc #3 is mounted on the back of the auger tube in the
center of the appliance and has a red reset button. To access
it remove the right side panel. If the fire tries to burn back


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## SmokeyTheBear (Sep 25, 2013)

While you are cleaning contacts of any corrosion, you need to check those of the controller and where it gets plugged in.  It is possible that the path from the socket to the controller has corrosion or is not making a solid contact.  A number of folks have found that by merely removing and re seating their controller that the problem goes away. 

The contacts and connections on these device is of a quick change variety and they are not always tight or corrosion free.  There have been cases of Molex connections where the socket side is fine but the plug side is loose and gets pushed back into the plastic instead of going into the socket.  Then the socket side has also been known to have loosened enough that the plug cannot make contact with the socket sides.   The same thing is true of edge connectors etc ...


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## 55chevy (Sep 25, 2013)

Thanks for the quick response.  I have onhooked a rehooked and bypassed all 3 snap discs and the vacuum switch  sev eral times.  I do get the convection blower when I power up.  I hook the auger to 110 with a cord and it turned fine.  I have also put a meeting on the side of the snap disc comming from the controller and I do not see voltage. The ignitor does not get hot either which tells me te controller is not seeing the call for heat.  I do get the call light on.  I also jump the therostat connections on the back of he stove and that did not help.  I also pull the plug on the bottom of the sheet metal ox that holds th controller board.  The one that just has a jumper on pins 4 and 5 and measured the voltage comming from the thermostat it was 7. something.  Is that about right ?

The 3rd snap disc you talk about (the one that turns on the convection blower.  That one reads open with a ohm meter which made sense to me since the stove is no hot.  I can check to see if there is voltage on that one but I bet there is not.  I jumped it as well and the fan did not start.  I will check tonight.

Thanks for the ideas,  keep them comming


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## SmokeyTheBear (Sep 25, 2013)

The 3rd snap disc is the burn back protector it has a red reset button on it if that switch is open the stove will not light and a lot of other things will not happen.  The controller is seeing the call for heat that is what turns the call light on.


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## 55chevy (Sep 25, 2013)

OK,  just had the disc numbers wrong  Snap disc 2 zero ohms,  Snap disc 3 zero ohms,  Snap disc 1 open.,  Vacuum switch zero ohms when combustion fan is running.  120 volts at snap disc 1 and it does have the purple wires.  all connections ohm out and do not have any visible corrosion

Thinking about you comment on the connection to the controller.  The bus block is not as tight as I would like.  I have had the control board slip out a couple of times over the years.  

So I took the controller board out of the plastic case plugged it in and held it forward to see if it made a better connection.  Did not work any better so I took voltage readings off the pins on the front side and here is what I got.

Pin  Voltage
1      0
2      0
3      0
4      0
5      0
6      0
7      0
8      6.4
9      6.5
10    0
11    120
12    120
13    114 
14     0
15     0

Need to find way to get to the back pins.


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## stoveguy13 (Sep 28, 2013)

Is there a yellow light in in the control box?


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## 55chevy (Sep 28, 2013)

No yellow light.  I did as a test heat up the thermo and the green light came on.

Since my control board worked in another stove and a known good control board acted just like mine I gotta believe there is a contact problem with the buss.  It looks good (no corrosion).  Smokey wrote that the call light being on means the control board recognizes a call for heat.  What else does it need ?

Does anybody have readings from the pins of a working board?  Or a schematic ?  It seems like the board is doing everything it should at startup.

I don't here the click I normally do when I turn the  thermostat up.  That seems to start the pellets feeding.

As always thanks for all the help.


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## stoveguy13 (Sep 28, 2013)

does it have a hopper lid switch on it?


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## 55chevy (Sep 28, 2013)

No switch,  I always thought they should because I have overfilled a few times and left the lid partially open


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## 55chevy (Sep 28, 2013)

Everyone,  That click I normally here  when I turn the heat on,  I am guessing it is a relay on the board.  Is that the black square component with 6 pins ?  I am guessing I could try find out what the pin out on that is and try to go back from there.  I have read a lot of threads on replacing components on the board.  Does anybody have a home made schematic.  Does not need to be pretty


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## jtakeman (Sep 28, 2013)

If you can read the part number off the relay I should be able to source a PDF which usually has a schematic of the contacts.


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## stoveguy13 (Sep 29, 2013)

i dont think there is a relay in the wiring anywhere. if you have properly jumped out the #2 #3 snap discs and the vacuum switch. and the control box works?
when you turn on the t-stat does the exhaust blower come on?


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## jtakeman (Sep 29, 2013)

stoveguy13 said:


> i dont think there is a relay in the wiring anywhere. if you have properly jumped out the #2 #3 snap discs and the vacuum switch. and the control box works?
> when you turn on the t-stat does the exhaust blower come on?


 Pretty sure he means the relay that is on the controller main board.


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## stoveguy13 (Sep 29, 2013)

J  didn't he already put his friends board in and same problem?


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## jtakeman (Sep 29, 2013)

stoveguy13 said:


> J  didn't he already put his friends board in and same problem?


Yep, His worked in his pals and His pals didn't work in his. So should rule out the board. Could be a bad wire from the stat terminals to the main board connector or a dirty connection/contact?


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## SmokeyTheBear (Sep 29, 2013)

jtakeman said:


> Yep, His worked in his pals and His pals didn't work in his. So should rule out the board. Could be a bad wire from the stat terminals to the main board connector or a dirty connection/contact?



Which was why I was asking for the checking, removing, and re seating of things.

Then there is the possibility that a wire has been pinched and is now broken inside the insulation.

We have had cases on here where after removing, re seating, and a bit of contact cleaning things suddenly fire up (funny that).


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## 55chevy (Sep 29, 2013)

Sorry for the delay in getting back.  I coach little league and we had a several games.

The relay I am talking about is on the control board.  I know the control board is good as you said. 

The relay question was part of a desperate attempt to trace something back to a bad contact or broken wire.

As you have said it is probably a bad contact but they all look good,  I cleaned the fingers on the control board.  I have even tried to push the control board in and hold it to see it I get better contact.  I have re-seated it 20 times or more.

How would you clean the contacts in the buss block ?

I guess the next thing to do is try and check from each buss connector to where it goes with an Ohm meter.  That would verify the wires but not the contacts.

If I put the control board back in I could check the front fingers.

Thanks again Gary


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## stoveguy13 (Sep 30, 2013)

does the exhaust blower come?


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## 55chevy (Sep 30, 2013)

Yep,  exhaust blower starts right up, vacuum switch goes. 

can you but the connector forhe control board ?  does it come as a wiring harness ? 

I gotta believe it is a wire or contact.  I already did check some but I should go through as many as I can get to.

As I said the control board never did feel solid when I plugged it in.  Alway seemed too loose to me but it worked for 8 years.

I will try and clean the contacts on the connector (not sure how)  to see if that helps.

Thanks


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## Bioburner (Sep 30, 2013)

LPS spray electrical contact cleaner one option.


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## stoveguy13 (Sep 30, 2013)

i would start with the vacuum switch. how did you jump it out last time?


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## tjnamtiw (Oct 3, 2013)

The vacuum switch isn't in the logic sequence until after the igniter gets power according to this logic diagram.  Now the igniter isn't turning on, ASSUMING that it's getting power, so we're never getting past step 3. Sure wish we all had the schematic/logic for the control box.  Somehow the box must know that power is not going to the igniter but I didn't think it was that 'smart'. We have steps 3 and 5 not working but we can make step 7 work.............




Also, in your voltage readings, you show 0 volts at pins 14 and 15.  These feed the igniter. I would suggest disconnecting the igniter and checking its resistance, which should be very small.  Also, with it disconnected, check the voltage at pins 14 and 15 again.  You should see 120 volts.

Your voltage going to pin 12 shows that you have incoming voltage through the safety snap disk 3 and the voltage at 11 shows the voltage going to your snap disc for the convection blower.  However, you have zero voltage at pin 10, which feeds your auger circuit.  The fact that you have 0 volts to the igniter appears to be the culprit and the place to start looking.  We have seen people posting in the past about burned contacts in the female socket so perhaps some close inspection with a magnifier might be in line.  Also, checking the igniter itself like I said before is in order although I think you should have seen 120 volts at the pins even if the igniter is burned out. The only way you could see 0 volts is if you have a short in the wiring, but I would think you'd blow the fuse..

Finally, if you use the search and look for quadrafire control box repair or parts, there were a bunch of posts about how these boxes control the power to the igniter, I believe.


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## stoveguy13 (Oct 4, 2013)

the igniter does not need to turn on or heat up  to make the feed motor  come on the igniter obviously needs to work to make the stove start but it has no baring on the feed motor function.


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## tjnamtiw (Oct 4, 2013)

stoveguy13 said:


> the igniter does not need to turn on or heat up  to make the feed motor  come on the igniter obviously needs to work to make the stove start but it has no baring on the feed motor function.


I know what you're saying, Stoveguy, but the logic diagram says differently.  I too don't know how it would know that the igniter had power unless there is a sensing logic on the board that has to see voltage to the igniter to enable the voltage feed to the feed motor.  Obviously, in the voltage readings, this is what's happening.  No igniter voltage and no feed motor input voltage.  I could write the circuit logic to do that. In fact, I've been playing around with Cubloc ladder logic to replace our control box and give more troubleshooting information.


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## stoveguy13 (Oct 5, 2013)

tjnamtiw said:


> but the logic diagram says differently


  That is not a logic  digram. That page you posted came out of a training book from a quad training for the dealers that is more of the process that takes place when the stove starts. I have worked on quad stoves for a long time and can tell you for sure the igniter has no baring on on the feed motor and if you look at the box for the feed motor it confirms that


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## 55chevy (Oct 5, 2013)

Guys,

Thanks for the info,   (especially the diagram) I just looked at the last 2 posts tonight. 

The igniter reads about 37 ohms.  If I wanted to test it would I hook it to 120 VAC?  I did that with the auger and it worked.

So here is what I did tonight.

I used contact cleaner.

I took my Ohm meter and checked for continuity from the fingers of the control board to where the diagram shows the connection.  Absolutely all of the connections seem intact.

I plugged the stove in and it cycled up   Board did the cycles with the blue light blinking,  The combustion fan comes on.  Red light calling for heat is on.  No feed,  no igniter.

So for grins I decided to unplug the stove turn the thermostat down and plugged the stove back in with the thermostat not calling for heat.  I waited for the combustion fan to stop running (about 5 minutes).  Then I turned the thermostat up so the call light came on but the combustion blow does not start.

So I only get the combustion fan when I first plug the stove in.  So I guess I am stuck at box 2 after the initial startup.  Not sure if this helps.  I am just out of ideas


Thanks for all the help.


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## tjnamtiw (Oct 5, 2013)

stoveguy13 said:


> That is not a logic  digram. That page you posted came out of a training book from a quad training for the dealers that is more of the process that takes place when the stove starts. I have worked on quad stoves for a long time and can tell you for sure the igniter has no baring on on the feed motor and if you look at the box for the feed motor it confirms that


I'm not throwing stones at you, Stoveguy.  I respect your opinion and the fact that you have worked on Quads for a long time.  The diagram I posted was downloaded years ago off of this site and used as a flow chart to explain the sequence.  Maybe logic diagram was the wrong word.  As I said in my other post, I didn't really see how the igniter being on or off would be seen by the feed motor circuit.  The fact that both get no voltage but the control box works in another Quad points to something external to the control box.  I'm not sure what box you're referring to when you say 'the box for the feed motor'.  Neither one of my stoves has a separate box for the feed motor.

The latest info from 55Chevy points back to the control box, doesn't it?  How many flashes of the blue light do you get??? When you put your control box in your friend's stove, did it start up and build a fire or did it just run the combustion blower when you turned it on, 55Chevy?


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## stoveguy13 (Oct 6, 2013)

tjnamtiw said:


> Neither one of my stoves has a separate box for the feed motor.


 i was referring to the box on the chart you posted. No problem i dont think you are throwing stones.

If your Combustion blower doesnt turn on when you push your thermostat up that wont let anything start you have a problem in your wiring harness i would start by checking power to the combustion blower . let us know what you get for voltage.


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## PutnamJct (Oct 6, 2013)

Is it possible that the vacuum line is clogged, thus not kicking on the auger to feed pellets? I know you've gone round and round with this thing, maybe the vacuum is the problem as opposed to it being wiring.......
Also, before this problem came up, has there been any changes from the last time it ran correctly? (stove moved, part changed, etc..)


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## 55chevy (Oct 6, 2013)

When I put it in my friends stove it started up and feed pellets.  I did not wait for it to light.  Had I realized this was not going to be simple fix (broken wire, etc)  I would have let it go through the whole cycle to make sure.  My friend also brought his control box over to my stove and his acting the same as mine (no feed).  I agree everything points to the control box which is why I did the swap (both ways).  I may bring my box back over to my friends stove and recheck to make sure.

To answer the question about the lights on the control board.  I powered it up this morning and this is what I see.

The second I plug it in I get a quick red flash followed by 6 blue blinks pause few seconds then 6 blue blinks.  It does the blue blinks 7 times.    (combustion blower is running the whole time)

My friends board had seven blinks (I am pretty sure) but he had a newer model board  (he replaced his control board a few years ago).

I am guessing that the blinks are just the board go through it self test?  Probably newer firmware had another test?

I was a test technician for 5 years and an electrical engineer for the last 20,  It just kills me that something that looks as simple as this has me stumped!

I know when I figure it out (or worse have someone else do it for me)  I am going to kick myself


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## stoveguy13 (Oct 6, 2013)

the blue blinks are the setting on the board when you plug the board in the blower comes on because it thinks the stove has lost power.  try jumping the the thermostat at the stove. dont use the current wires. if the blower  doesnt come on when you turn the thermostat either there is a bad wire or the thermostat connection is bad.


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## 55chevy (Oct 6, 2013)

Will try jumping the thermostat,  I think I already tried that but not sure,  always worth another try.  I do get the call light when I turn the thermostat up.


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## 55chevy (Oct 6, 2013)

OK,  tried jumping thermostat.  Call light comes on,  no combustion fan, no feed.

The fact the combustion fan comes on when I plug it says it has a good connection and it works.

So are you saying the 7.84 dc volts I measure at the on thermostat terminal is not get to the control board?

When I jump the terminals to goes to zero.


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## stoveguy13 (Oct 6, 2013)

how did you jump it?


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## 55chevy (Oct 6, 2013)

Piece of #12 copper wire.


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## stoveguy13 (Oct 7, 2013)

check the wire on the inside of the stove that connect to the thermostat wires to the junction box and also check the ground wire.


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## 55chevy (Oct 7, 2013)

will do


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## tjnamtiw (Oct 7, 2013)

As an aside, the 7 flashes on your buddy's box just means it's set for an extra 10% feed rate


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## tjnamtiw (Oct 7, 2013)

Looking again at your voltages and the schematic, you should have some voltage at either 4 or 6 if you change the feed rate rocker switch.  If you see no voltage with any setting, that might be a clue.  Just grasping at straws.


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## 55chevy (Oct 13, 2013)

OK gentlemen,

Thanks for all the info,  this is great.  After I fixed the thermostat hook up and the stove started to feed pellets and it fired up I thought I was golden. 

What happened is I moved onto a new problem.  The convection fan never came on.  It took a little while for me to realize the stove was oddly quiet.

So with some investigation here is what I found.  The snap disc did short when it got hot like it was suppose to.  Before the disc shorts I did have 120AC on the control board side.  When it does short it goes to   0 but no fan.   Turned the stove off and hooked the fan directly to 120 with my test cord and fan runs fine.

took the control board out of the clear plastic case (so I could get to the pins), plugged it in and powered the stove up.  120 AC at pin 11.  Jumped the snap disc for the convection fan voltage at the pin goes to 0 no fan.

Thought maybe the fan is putting too much of a load on the circuit. Either this or for some reason the board can not handle the load.  Checked the resistance of the fan ,  about 8 ohms,  Is that normal?

Does anybody know where to voltage for the fan comes from.   Hard to follow the etch since it is internal.  Wondering if there is a component that goes bad with these symptoms.

I can take my control board over to my friend's stove and see it works there.  Since my original problem was pellet feed and it did that on his stove we did not let it go until the convection fan came on.


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## tjnamtiw (Oct 13, 2013)

If the voltage drops to zero on the downstream side of the snap disc, that means that current is flowing through to ground.  You should be seeing the 120 volts (measured from there to GROUND) if the current is going to the motor.  Since the motor works, I'd be looking for a short.  You WILL see zero volts ACROSS the snap disc. You are measuring to a good ground, correct?

Oh, love your car, by the way!


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## 55chevy (Oct 14, 2013)

Just to make sure I had a good common I went back to the wiring diagram and measured the voltage using  pin 5 on the control board as my common.   I even ohmed pin 5 back to the stove plug common prong to make sure I had a direct connection (0 ohms).  So I start the stove  I see 120V AC at snap disc 1.   I jump snap 1 and voltage goes to zero (no fan).  Voltage is also zero measured at pin 11 of control board.

So I unplug the stove and measure resistance from pin 11 to pin 5 with snap disc jumped.  This should give me the whole circuit.  Resistance is 7.2 ohms.  I get the same reading going just across the motor.  If I did my math correctly that would be a little over 15 amps which seems pretty high.   Could be with an AC motor that is just the surge current and it changes once running.  I am used to digital circuits and DC.  Still seems high to me.  Probably some resistance on the board to cut current back.

One other thing,  when I short the snap disc I see a tiny spark so there is a little current flow.  Spark is more like what you would get with 9 volt battery not 110AC.

Just going through this in my head (with you folks) to make sure I am not talking myself into something.  I keep thinking that while I was working on my other problems I messed this up and caused the problem.

The voltage reading goes to zero when it tries to turn the fan on so I would guess the control board has some way of limiting current?  If not I would have smoke and fire.  They probably did that instead of going directly to the snap disk for safety.

Does anybody know what component Pin 5 goes to?  Hard to follow the internal etch?  Looks like it might go to the coil but I have not checked.


Car was a multi year project.  Started with a very rough (no floors, no interior, No drivetrain) car and did a frame off in my garage.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Oct 14, 2013)

Disconnect your convection blower put your voltmeter set to a scale that can handle AC above 120 volts.

Start the stove without the #1 snap disc jumped, tell us the reading, when  the snap disc closes tell us the reading.


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## 55chevy (Oct 14, 2013)

Smokey,

Will do right now.    So far I get 120AC with the snap disc 1 jumped fan not connected.   Waiting for the temp to come up.


The post below was typed in this afternoon and I forgot to post.  Not sure if that makes a difference but more information.


I chased the etch from pin 5 on the control board. to the Triad (yellow transformer)  pin 1.  I also traced the power form pin 12 to Triad pin 4.  Does not seem to be anything else between the 2 pins.  I pull up the diagram of the  triad (below).  Pins 1 and 4 are the primary coil.  I measured the resistance across the 1 to 4 and got 376 ohms.

Put the board back in power up the stove with Snap1 shorted.  Pin 5 of the control board 0 volts,  pin 1 of Triad 0 volts,  pin 4 of Triad 5 volts.  So all of the voltage is dropped across the triad since it is a much higher resistance than the 7.2 ohms on the fan motor.  question,  is 376 ohms too high  or is that right and the fan should run the lower current


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## 55chevy (Oct 14, 2013)

Update,  with fan unhooked snap disc 1 jumped 120 AC with the snap disc open or closed.

Just for grins I plugged in the fan and it went to 0.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Oct 14, 2013)

Well you might be looking at a Triac that is bad or that fan isn't exactly right.  You say the fan works if you put line voltage directly to it, looks like it is too much for the controller to handle or there is a short in the wiring from the connectors to the motor.

ETA: Could you reverse the connection to the fan.


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## tjnamtiw (Oct 14, 2013)

This link talks about the control box and parts replacement.  Might be of some help. Sure sounds like a Triac is bad or like I said earlier, a possible short (which really should be popping fuses).  Time to call Mouser?  

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/castile-auger-motor-wont-shut-off-clear-control-box.103929/


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## SmokeyTheBear (Oct 14, 2013)

tjnamtiw said:


> file:///C:/Users/Tom/Documents/fireplace/parts%20for%20quadrafire%20clear%20box.htm
> 
> This link talks about the control box and parts replacement.  Might be of some help.




Linky no worky.


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## tjnamtiw (Oct 15, 2013)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> Linky no worky.


Yea, Smokey, I pulled a 'stupid' and linked to myself..........  
The newer one should work.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Oct 15, 2013)

tjnamtiw said:


> Yea, Smokey, I pulled a 'stupid' and linked to myself..........
> The newer one should work.



Don't feel bad tj I pull all kinds of stupids it goes with the territory.  You know old ageitude  does that.  I can't come up with a valid reason for the voltage to drop to zero across the power leads other than a short in the motor or the so-called hot lead is some how shunted to ground.  I've seen some strange wiring over the years.


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## tjnamtiw (Oct 15, 2013)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> Don't feel bad tj I pull all kinds of stupids it goes with the territory.  You know old ageitude  does that.  I can't come up with a valid reason for the voltage to drop to zero across the power leads other than a short in the motor or the so-called hot lead is some how shunted to ground.  I've seen some strange wiring over the years.


I'm with you, Smokey.


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## 55chevy (Oct 18, 2013)

Hey guys,

I made a mistake following the etches from pin 11.  It does not go to the coil, it goes to the a resistor and Q5.  I measure the voltage on the input to Q5 I get 120AC I measure the center pin which goes to the fan (pin 11) I get 0 with the snap disc jumped.  Looks like a bad component.


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## tjnamtiw (Oct 19, 2013)

55chevy said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I made a mistake following the etches from pin 11.  It does not go to the coil, it goes to the a resistor and Q5.  I measure the voltage on the input to Q5 I get 120AC I measure the center pin which goes to the fan (pin 11) I get 0 with the snap disc jumped.  Looks like a bad component.


What was the voltage on the gate? (the third pin)
http://www.ab.com/support/abdrives/documentation/fb/1012.pdf


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## tjnamtiw (Oct 19, 2013)

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/castile-auger-motor-wont-shut-off-clear-control-box.103929/


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## 55chevy (Oct 19, 2013)

3rd pin had 120AC.

So in summary pin 1 and 3 120AC pin 2 0.   Not sure how these Triacs work.  More of a digital guy myself.  It seems like the way they are used is to replace a relay?  Maybe to limit current?


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## tjnamtiw (Oct 20, 2013)

As far as I know (I'm from the tube era myself!), Triacs are switches. When the 'gate' gets a signal, it lets current pass.  Not knowing the pin out of the Triac makes it impossible to know if pin 2 is the gate or the output.  On most from what research I did, pin 2 is usually the output and pin 3 is the gate, which would point toward a bad triac.  If it were me and the stove were out of warranty, I'd pull the triac out, get its number, look up the pin out and then test it per the link I posted.


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## stoveguy13 (Oct 20, 2013)

if you jump the wires out the wire off the snap disc that controls the conv. fan does the fan run?


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## 55chevy (Oct 20, 2013)

No fan no matter what.

From me chasing the etches I would say pin 1 is input (goes to AC line in).  Triac pin 2 goes to the fan which should be output.  So that leaves pin 3 as the gate.  I got the number off the Triac and ordered a couple.  I also read up a little.  One thing I read was they are like a switch and one advantage was that they eliminate arcing like contacts.

Since I have AC on pin 3 I would think it would be doing something.

Stove is way out of warranty so I will replace when I get the new ones.  I will post the result.


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## stoveguy13 (Oct 20, 2013)

have you put power direct to the fan?


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## 55chevy (Oct 23, 2013)

OK gents,

I replaced both Triacs (a lead broke on the other one when I was unbolting the heat sink) and I get the same result.  I have 120 AC at the Snap disc until it shorts. or I jump it.  Then it goes to zero.

I really thought I had it.    I am pretty much out of ideas.


I will take it over to my friends house and see if it runs his fan.  Just to verify it is the board.


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## tjnamtiw (Oct 23, 2013)

Darn!  The one thing I noticed in the link I posted above was this statement > 'check the aqh2223 when its pluged in it will get to hot to touch in about 10 seconds if its bad. *the opto isolater will usualy get taken out when the relay goes bad*.'

I still sure sounds like you have a short somewhere but I can't explain why you wouldn't blow a fuse.

Oh, and don't forget to unplug the stoves when you remove or replace the control boxes!  You don't want to buy a new one for your buddy too


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## rexbest (Jan 2, 2014)

Chevy55,  I have a Santa Fe as well and have experienced a similar problem recently.  I am not as electrically savvy as it appears you are but I have checked current at the snap discs and have reading there.  I just pulled my auger motor and did the same as you did by hooking up a direct power cord to the red and black wires.  All that the motor did was make some odd noise and jerk a little but no spinning.  How did your auger react when you did this?  Does it sound like this is a bad motor?

Thanks for any help you guys can provide.


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## pen (Jan 2, 2014)

Welcome to the site @rexbest.

This thread is from a couple of months ago (Chevy55 hasn't logged in since Oct, but maybe this will wake him up if he gets an alert), if you aren't able to get your question answered in this thread, don't be afraid to start a new thread with more detail about what you are going through.

pen


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## 55chevy (Jan 3, 2014)

rexbest said:


> Chevy55,  I have a Santa Fe as well and have experienced a similar problem recently.  I am not as electrically savvy as it appears you are but I have checked current at the snap discs and have reading there.  I just pulled my auger motor and did the same as you did by hooking up a direct power cord to the red and black wires.  All that the motor did was make some odd noise and jerk a little but no spinning.  How did your auger react when you did this?  Does it sound like this is a bad motor?
> 
> Thanks for any help you guys can provide.



Hey guys,

when I jumped the auger motor it  did turn so it sounds like you found your problem.  Mine turned smoothly at a fairly slow pace Like I would have expected. 

For the guys that helped me (over and over) with my problem I apologize for not letting them know the outcome.  Probably because I cheated and was a little embarrassed. I did replace the Triacs and still no power to the recirculating fan.   So here is the cheating part, I soldered a jumper between 120 AC input pin on the control board to the pin that goes to the snap disc for the recirculating fan.  Since I was going to replace the board anyway I had nothing to lose.  This works fine with the only concern being that the 120AC is always at the snap disc even when the stove is idle.  The fuse is still in the circuit so if there was a problem you have protection.  Probably not a recommended fix and I do plan on doing some more research when the weather is warmer and I do not need the stove.  if I can find a schematic for the board It would be very helpful.  Otherwise I am just shotgunning compontents


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## tjnamtiw (Jan 3, 2014)

It sounds like you actually did what B-Mod and I did a couple of years ago but just in a little different fashion, 55Chev.  Your convection fan always runs in high then, just as ours do, right? In my case, I got my 120 volts from the output side of the safety snap disc #3 so I have both the fuse AND the protection of an overfire condition afforded by the snap disk #3.  You might want to change that just for safety's sake.  Otherwise, It's nice to see you back.  I've enjoyed your digging into the control board and have earmarked all that info.  Like you, I wish we had a schematic of the box.  I'm sure it's pretty 'caveman' logic in there!


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## 55chevy (Jan 3, 2014)

tjnamtiw said:


> It sounds like you actually did what B-Mod and I did a couple of years ago but just in a little different fashion, 55Chev.  Your convection fan always runs in high then, just as ours do, right? In my case, I got my 120 volts from the output side of the safety snap disc #3 so I have both the fuse AND the protection of an overfire condition afforded by the snap disk #3.  You might want to change that just for safety's sake.  Otherwise, It's nice to see you back.  I've enjoyed your digging into the control board and have earmarked all that info.  Like you, I wish we had a schematic of the box.  I'm sure it's pretty 'caveman' logic in there!


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## 55chevy (Jan 3, 2014)

Yep, always runs on high.  I always had it set on high anyway. Why did you guys jump the voltage? 

It was kind of fun digging in to the circuits.  I was an electrical engineer for many years designing circuit boards for computers.  Back when it took a whole circuit board to run a disk drive.   It has been a long time since I did any debugging so it brought back a lot of old memories.  I am a program manager for the Air Force so they don't let me get to close to any logic or test equipment.

I did look up some of the components on the board and it does seem like a very simple logic.  Even and old engineer could follow if he had a schematic.  If you think about it there is really no much to it.  With the Snap discs for protection the control board only has to control the feed (both start up and on going), turn th igniter on and off, and last sense if the fire started within a period of time.

I don't monitor the site a lot but if I see an alert I will respond. I appreciate all the help you guys gave me.


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## tjnamtiw (Jan 3, 2014)

55chevy said:


> Yep, always runs on high.  I always had it set on high anyway. Why did you guys jump the voltage?
> 
> It was kind of fun digging in to the circuits.  I was an electrical engineer for many years designing circuit boards for computers.  Back when it took a whole circuit board to run a disk drive.   It has been a long time since I did any debugging so it brought back a lot of old memories.  I am a program manager for the Air Force so they don't let me get to close to any logic or test equipment.
> 
> ...


We jumped the voltage so that even if we run the stove on LOW, the convection fan will run on high to get the most turbulent flow through the tubes that we've put springs into to increase the surface area and create the most heat transfer.  
I see the control box mostly there to control the speeds of the motors and 'marry' the protective logic of the snap discs and flame sensor, which is more complicated than it has to be.  You could just as easily put a snap disc on the outlet of the exhaust fan to sense the presence of flame.  I've played around with CUBLOC, which is a neat little compact controller.  One advantage is that you can write in ladder logic, which I'm most familiar with from my engineering days writing programs for PLC'S to control assembly line equipment.  You can also program them in Basic PLUS marry the two together with subroutines.  I've gotten as far as to write some programs but didn't go any further yet.  The programming language is free to download on line too.  http://cubloc.com/  I know you'll find it interesting.


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## rexbest (Jan 4, 2014)

55chevy said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> when I jumped the auger motor it  did turn so it sounds like you found your problem.  Mine turned smoothly at a fairly slow pace Like I would have expected.
> 
> For the guys that helped me (over and over) with my problem I apologize for not letting them know the outcome.  Probably because I cheated and was a little embarrassed. I did replace the Triacs and still no power to the recirculating fan.   So here is the cheating part, I soldered a jumper between 120 AC input pin on the control board to the pin that goes to the snap disc for the recirculating fan.  Since I was going to replace the board anyway I had nothing to lose.  This works fine with the only concern being that the 120AC is always at the snap disc even when the stove is idle.  The fuse is still in the circuit so if there was a problem you have protection.  Probably not a recommended fix and I do plan on doing some more research when the weather is warmer and I do not need the stove.  if I can find a schematic for the board It would be very helpful.  Otherwise I am just shotgunning compontents





Thanks for the reply Chevy55.  I got a new motor today and it works fine but I still do not get a startup when I flip to heat.  I did some more digging and it appears that my vacuum switch is the culprit now.  I disconnected the leads and hooked a jumper wire between them and everything started working right.  I did some meter checking on the vacuum switch posts and applied positive and negative pressure.  When the switch made contact I would get a reading on my meter so it looks like my vacuum switch is still good (unless anyone can tell me different).  I have checked the chimney pipe and it appears clean and I have done a pretty thorough clean out of the entire unit but I still cannot get it to work without jumping the vacuum switch.  If I jump the vacuum switch for a couple of days to get through this cold snap does anyone see a problem?


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## tjnamtiw (Jan 4, 2014)

By getting a reading on the snap disc, I'm assuming that if you were on ohms that it went to zero across the terminals when you put a vacuum on it.  That rules out the vacuum switch and snap disc #2.  Now you have to find out why there's not enough vacuum to close the switch.  What heat setting are you using?  Try it on HIGH for most vacuum.  Make sure dump gate on bottom of burn pot is fully closed and is not hanging down (take out ash pan and look).  Check door gasket with a dollar bill.  It should show significant drag as you pull it out after  closing the door.  Make sure that the combustion fan turns freely by hand and you don't feel any resistance which would indicate a buildup of ash in that little chamber where it sits.


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## rexbest (Jan 6, 2014)

tjnamtiw said:


> By getting a reading on the snap disc, I'm assuming that if you were on ohms that it went to zero across the terminals when you put a vacuum on it.  That rules out the vacuum switch and snap disc #2.  Now you have to find out why there's not enough vacuum to close the switch.  What heat setting are you using?  Try it on HIGH for most vacuum.  Make sure dump gate on bottom of burn pot is fully closed and is not hanging down (take out ash pan and look).  Check door gasket with a dollar bill.  It should show significant drag as you pull it out after  closing the door.  Make sure that the combustion fan turns freely by hand and you don't feel any resistance which would indicate a buildup of ash in that little chamber where it sits.





OK guys..If you ever want to talk with a bonehead give me a call.  With the advice that you guys gave me I was able to get back up and running.  I was able to clean out my flue to a point from both directions and ended up finding a huge build up of clinkers or creosote (whatever you want to call it).  Ended up taking my flue pipe apart and getting to that area and thoroughly cleaned it out.  Also learned (here is the bonehead part) you can't get vacuum if you don't have pellets in the hopper.  I had a chimney sweep set up to come out Wednesday but was able to get a sweep brush and cleaned every inch of the pipe myself.  Saved $100 there.  Thanks for all of the advice.  Also wanted to ask is there a brand of pellets available nationally that is low ash or comes highly recommended?  I live in Kansas and the ones I get from Lowes or Home Depot seem to not burn as very good.


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## tjnamtiw (Jan 7, 2014)

That's great news that you got it going!  You are talking to a group of boneheads because we have ALL done stupid stuff, whether we want to admit it or not.  Yep, without pellets you won't get enough vacuum to close the switch, especially on LOW.  I discovered that and posted about it a couple of years ago.   I guess I was troubleshooting a problem and hooked up a meter to the vacuum switch.  
Stay warm.  7 degrees here in GEORGIA!!  WTF did I move down here for???


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## 55chevy (Jan 8, 2014)

tjnamtiw said:


> That's great news that you got it going!  You are talking to a group of boneheads because we have ALL done stupid stuff, whether we want to admit it or not.  Yep, without pellets you won't get enough vacuum to close the switch, especially on LOW.  I discovered that and posted about it a couple of years ago.   I guess I was troubleshooting a problem and hooked up a meter to the vacuum switch.
> Stay warm.  7 degrees here in GEORGIA!!  WTF did I move down here for???


 

I am interested in the springs you inserted in the tubes.  Length, Diameter,  anything special about them or did you just go to the hardware store and see what they had?  Did it make a difference?  I have a big family room (28', 32') with a 15' ceiling.   When it get into the single digits the stove really struglles to keep up.

We were 57 on Monday,  2 this morning.  I can't keep up.


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## tjnamtiw (Jan 8, 2014)

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/quadrafire-castile-experiment.58216/

I hope you enjoy reading, Chevy!    There was one guy who for some reason had smaller tubes.  What stove do you have?  The tubes flare out at the end so you can't go by that measurement.  You have to go in a couple of inches to get the true diameter.  McMaster Carr!

There's another thread you can search for. Something like 'castile experiment revisited'.


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## 55chevy (Jan 8, 2014)

I have the Santa Fe stand alone.  I will read tonight.


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## Foots (Jan 19, 2014)

newbie registered.  I have perused the site many times and have gained lots of help, thought i would share this.  Quad Santa Fe had an auger not turning.  i read the posts, cleaned it before my scheduled time, blew vacuum hose…emptied the hopper and after sucking out remaining pellets, there
 was a partial plastic ink pen in bottom of hopper, in supply chute.  I loosened the nut and screw that holds the auger motor assemble, jiggled it and the plastic ink refill dropped down.  not what i expected!  Thanks to all who made my life easier by sharing your wisdom.  EJ


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