# Bad wood pile



## Backwoods Savage (Feb 12, 2009)

Well, some of this happens from time to time. We cut in the winter and do not split until spring. My splitting pile is stacked up to six feet high. Trouble is, lost of it has snow on the bottom and then throughout the pile there is more snow. 

With all that warm air we got (wind was SW so straight out of Lansing), a lot of the snow melted and naturally some of the wood pile scattered. Wasn't too bad though. I could see one block in the lane but when I went out, all of the last tree I cut had tipped completely over. More work! Maybe I'll just take the splitter out there and split it rather than re-stack it. It is all ash and some pretty good sized blocks too.


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## savageactor7 (Feb 12, 2009)

Sorry to hear that Savage...yeah I'd split it and save some extra handling. imo the extra handling is the curse of wood burning.


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## PapaDave (Feb 12, 2009)

Good Idea Dennis.
With the thaw we've had, if you can get the splitter to that wood, that's what I'd do, rather than restack. 
It's work no matter how you look at it, but that would be easier. 
I took down a maple late last fall, but before I could get around to splitting it, that pesky snow started. I actually have that one, another one in my power line and 2 big pine trees to get bucked, split and stacked. Wish I cold have done it last fall.
Split 'em if ya got 'em!
The snow that was forecast never materialized, so maybe spring is on the way! Yeah, riiiiiiiiiiiight.


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## CowboyAndy (Feb 12, 2009)

i have been lucky so far and have had only one srack fall over and it was roundds that were waiting to be split anyways.


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## wendell (Feb 12, 2009)

Same thing happened to me. When I stacked it I figured as heavy as the rounds were on the bottom there is no way this stack is coming down but you take melting snow, thawing ground and a great big wind and I guess most anything can tip over.

Nice to know it can happen to the best of us, too. Thanks for sharing, Dennis!


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## Backwoods Savage (Feb 12, 2009)

Before I start splitting I'll try to remember to take some pictures. Maybe I'll also take some pictures after the splitting is done. But don't look for those too soon. It is still winter! I usually start splitting in March but some years have to wait until April. I won't get much if any sun where the splitting pile is this year so it all depends on how warm the air is. There is still plenty of snow at the pile and the lane beside it is not fit for walking with all the slippery ice. It slants downhill so there is water on top of the ice. Not good for walking for sure.


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## wendell (Feb 12, 2009)

I understand the waiting but I'm splitting green elm so really want to get as much split and debarked as possible so I can freeze those bast**d larvae before they mature and go on to kill more elms.


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## kenny chaos (Feb 13, 2009)

Oh my god!  A wood pile fell over?  Your life is hard!


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## Backwoods Savage (Feb 13, 2009)

No big deal. It happens from time to time. If I took the time to clear all the snow instead of just throwing more wood on the pile it wouldn't happens as much. Only the frost heaving would do it. But I'll just take the splitter out there and go to work. It definitely is too soft now to haul wood out of the woods so I may as well start splitting anyway. Maybe in a couple days.


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## LLigetfa (Feb 13, 2009)

Ja, removing the snow would be good but frost heaving can still topple a stack.  If stacking 6 feet high, I would tie back to the adjacent row with a few long pieces at about the 4 foot height.


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## Backwoods Savage (Feb 13, 2009)

For sure I could do that, but it is only a splitting pile. If it topples it is no big deal. I just thought it was funny and thought I'd see what responses I'd get here. Now I suppose I should get out there and get busy; but I don't really want to.  More snow overnight.


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## RedRanger (Feb 15, 2009)

Backwoods Savage said:
			
		

> For sure I could do that, but it is only a splitting pile. If it topples it is no big deal. I just thought it was funny and thought I'd see what responses I'd get here. Now I suppose I should get out there and get busy; but I don't really want to.  More snow overnight.



Dennis: don`t go out there cutting tonite!!  

There is a Bad Moon On The Rise//CCR have told me so.

Besides, don`t ya have a good 7 year supply on hand.  John Fogerty just said that it wouldn`t be good for you this time of year to take the chance,--says you "ain`t no fortunate son"..

Oregon man hates me--watch how fast this gets trashed to the can ;-P


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## Backwoods Savage (Feb 15, 2009)

Ah yes, even more than 7 years now!

But I can go out and cut tomorrow, because the Little Old Lady from Pasadena told me I could. Most of this week it has been windy so there's been a Whole Lot of Shaking Going On. I don't know all the answers to this puzzle. Could This Be Magic? Or maybe my wife is right and this is all Just A Dream.

Let's hope this isn't all a Wipeout!


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## kenny chaos (Feb 15, 2009)

sonnyinbc said:
			
		

> Backwoods Savage said:
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Just for you George, I hope you like it.- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APGg68-gsr8&feature=related


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## Todd (Feb 15, 2009)

:lol:  :lol: Classic funny!


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## Corey (Feb 15, 2009)

Too bad for the tipover.  I'm guessing 'pile' is actually a 'stack'?  Or maybe the wind was blowing so strong the pile of wood actually did blow over?!?  Either way, I'm impressed - either at the strength of the wind, or the fact your wood gets stacked before it's split, then re stacked again after.


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## LLigetfa (Feb 15, 2009)

cozy heat said:
			
		

> Either way, I'm impressed... the fact your wood gets stacked before it's split...


In the cold of Winter, I will buck all my wood but do not split it right away.  Splitting starts when the snow is mostly gone.

Since the rounds get under foot in the processing area, they need to get moved.  Larger rounds I stack so that they dry faster and are easier to pick up at splitting time.  The stacks of rounds don't exceed shoulder height.  Smaller rounds just get tossed aside into a pile.


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## Backwoods Savage (Feb 15, 2009)

cozy heat said:
			
		

> Too bad for the tipover.  I'm guessing 'pile' is actually a 'stack'?  Or maybe the wind was blowing so strong the pile of wood actually did blow over?!?  Either way, I'm impressed - either at the strength of the wind, or the fact your wood gets stacked before it's split, then re stacked again after.



Yes Corey, I stack it before splitting but I'm never very careful with the stacking either. By stacking the logs, I can move the splitter right next to the stack and not have to move very often nor do I have to reach much to get the next log. If there were two people for splitting, one to split and the other to keep bring logs, then you could just throw the stuff and forget about it. But stacking actually saves me a bit of time.


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## Apprentice_GM (Feb 18, 2009)

Just a question out of curiosity - what is the problem with snow through the stack? Wouldn't the warm air just melt it and it drains away? What is frost heaving?


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## Backwoods Savage (Feb 18, 2009)

Either you truly are a southern boy or you are pulling my leg! 

The problem with the snow through the stack is that I never took the time to clear the snow before throwing more wood on the stack. So, as the snow melts, the wood settles. Nasty things can happen.

Same goes for frost. The frost will push the ground up. Then as the weather warms, the frost melts, creating mud usually, and the heavy wood pile just slowly sinks. Naturally, it won't sink level. So, the pile tips over. That is why when you stack the wood after splitting you usually stop at 4' high but you can sometimes put it a little higher. Even at 4' though, sometimes it will tip over and it is because of nothing you did or didn't do.

So there is today's lesson. My bill will be arriving in the mail. Prompt payment appreciated!


btw, I did restack those logs that fell over. And we did not receive heavy snow last night nor today. Maybe it is holding off until we can get a real full blown blizzard.


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## Apprentice_GM (Feb 18, 2009)

Backwoods Savage said:
			
		

> Either you truly are a southern boy or you are pulling my leg!



More southern than you can drive


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## fossil (Feb 18, 2009)

Apprentice_GM said:
			
		

> Backwoods Savage said:
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Even if you get there, you still better be real careful trying to drive!   :lol:   Rick


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## firefighterjake (Feb 19, 2009)

Apprentice_GM said:
			
		

> Just a question out of curiosity - what is the problem with snow through the stack? Wouldn't the warm air just melt it and it drains away? What is frost heaving?



Sometimes the snow melts . . . but typically the snow just melts a bit when it gets warmer and then refreezes and then melts and then . . . well you get the picture . . . sometimes int the process things can get a bit askewed. As for me, I've made a conscientious decision to play on my snowmobile rather than work on the wood so snow isn't an issue for me.

As for your second question . . . a frost heave is when the ground swells up in one place . . . someone smarter than me can probably explain why (probably something to do with part of the ground melting faster than another part or draining better or something) . . . typically in the Spring in Maine you will see florescent orange FROST HEAVE signs dotting Maine roads which let you know to slow up really quickly or risk hitting the bump in the road and being launched halfway to the moon . . . or conversely losing your entire transmission as the car hits the killer bump -- some of them can be quite high . . . and quite often you end up with some pretty big potholes in the road during the same time of year which means you can hit a frost heave, launch your car a couple feet into the air and then come down into a sinkhole-sized pothole and your car will not be found until July 4th when Paving starts and the paving crew discovers your skeletonized remains in your car as they're laying down the asphault (OK, I embellished that last part . . . but seriously the frost heaves can be pretty big up here.)


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## Backwoods Savage (Feb 19, 2009)

Jake, do you slow up or slow down?
Well, do you go uptown or downtown?
Could stoplights also be called golights?

Better stop while I'm ahead...


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## LLigetfa (Feb 19, 2009)

Backwoods Savage said:
			
		

> Better stop while I'm ahead...


Why do we drive on a parkway but park in a driveway?  And why is it IN the driveway and not ON the driveway?


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## Backwoods Savage (Feb 19, 2009)

Let's also take the word finish. When you are done with the finish on a particular piece of wood, you are said to have finished with the finish. But then, there may also be Finnish that finish the finish and are finally finished. 

And I've always wondered why doesn't "Buick" rhyme with "quick."


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## LLigetfa (Feb 20, 2009)

Backwoods Savage said:
			
		

> And I've always wondered why doesn't "Buick" rhyme with "quick."


That's the oddities of the English language.  Take the "in" prefix that usually reverses the meaning of the root word.  For example, indecisive versus decisive, insufficient versus sufficient.  Why then doesn't it work for inflammable versus flammable?


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## backpack09 (Feb 20, 2009)

LLigetfa said:
			
		

> Why then doesn't it work for inflammable versus flammable?



Que? as far as I know inflammable means not flammable..... 

and its a Parkway because it is a Way with a Park in it. Like NJ's "wonderful" garden state parkway.


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## firefighterjake (Feb 20, 2009)

Backwoods Savage said:
			
		

> Jake, do you slow up or slow down?
> Well, do you go uptown or downtown?
> Could stoplights also be called golights?
> 
> Better stop while I'm ahead...



Well since you asked . . .

Do I slow up or slow down? . . . Answer: Neither. Jake works at just one speed so he doesn't need to slow up or slow down . . . that speed incidentally is just a notch above sloth-like speed.

Do I go uptown or downtown . . . Answer: Neither. Unity isn't really big enough to have an uptown, downtown or in between town . . . usually when I want to get a pizza I just go "to town."

Could stoplights be called golights . . . Answer: I wouldn't know . . . Unity isn't big enough for a stoplight/golight . . . heck, until a few years back my County only had one stoplight/golight . . . I think they have three or four now though in Belfast. Unity does have a couple of blinking yellow/red lights . . . are those stoplights/golights or Proceed Cautiously Lights?


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## lexybird (Feb 20, 2009)

if nothing sticks to teflon how do they stick teflon to the pan ,how come when a plane just about collides with another plane up  in the air they call it a near miss 
it was a near hit ..not a near miss


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## Backwoods Savage (Feb 20, 2009)

Well lexybird, it is somewhat like being a little bit pregnant.  Can that happen?


I do wonder about those Proceed Cautiously lights...


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## karri0n (Feb 20, 2009)

Backpack09 said:
			
		

> LLigetfa said:
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Inflammable does NOT mean "not flammable". You have probably caused millions of injuries/deaths. 


Inflammable is a synonym for flammable, but the reason for it is that "inflammable" is not actually an English word. I believe it's French, but maybe spanish.


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## Backwoods Savage (Feb 20, 2009)

in·flam·ma·ble (¹n-fl²m“…-b…l) adj. 1. Easily ignited and capable of burning rapidly; flammable. See Usage Note at  flammable. 2. Quickly or easily aroused to strong emotion; excitable

From the American Heritage Dictionary


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## karri0n (Feb 20, 2009)

yes, but it's taken from French. If that dictionary has etymology, then it will be in there.


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## Backwoods Savage (Feb 20, 2009)

But etymology..... Is that cureable?


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## karri0n (Feb 20, 2009)

Depends. What type of medical coverage does American Heritage offer?


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## gzecc (Feb 21, 2009)

I am originally from NY. May be an urban legend but was told the "parkways" were built on Long Island to bring cars in the 50's to the park (Jones Beach State Park). I was also told that they purposely built the bridges (overpasses) too low to prevent buses from coming with people from the cities.  Don't know if its true, but makes a good story!


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## LLigetfa (Feb 21, 2009)

Still, there's still the whole park IN the driveway versus ON thing.  Waddup widdat?  It's not a park versus drive thing cuz you can park ON the street or park ON the lawn.  Same thing with a parking lot.  One parks IN the parking lot, not ON the parking lot.


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## karri0n (Feb 23, 2009)

I've parked IN the street as well, but people beep at your car.


A side note: I'm from CT all my life and had never heard of frost heave, either, nor really witnessed a phenomenon such as that. Must just not get cold enough here.


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## firefighterjake (Feb 24, 2009)

karri0n said:
			
		

> I've parked IN the street as well, but people beep at your car.
> 
> 
> A side note: I'm from CT all my life and had never heard of frost heave, either, nor really witnessed a phenomenon such as that. Must just not get cold enough here.



Maybe it's just a Maine/New Hampshire thing since I remember that there were a few guys from CT in my first year at college that also had no idea what the "Frost Heave" signs meant when they spotted them in the Spring.


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## LLigetfa (Feb 24, 2009)

You mean this one?


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## wendell (Feb 25, 2009)

firefighterjake said:
			
		

> Maybe it's just a Maine/New Hampshire thing since I remember that there were a few guys from CT in my first year at college that also had no idea what the "Frost Heave" signs meant when they spotted them in the Spring.



Well, it's definitely a Wisconsin thing too. I can't drive down the main street through town at the posted speed limit without almost getting my F150 airborne!


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## karri0n (Feb 25, 2009)

LLigetfa said:
			
		

> You mean this one?




Ah, the good old "Warning, flying mountains" sign! Actually, I can't say I've seen that before.


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## firefighterjake (Feb 25, 2009)

LLigetfa said:
			
		

> You mean this one?



Nope . . . Mainers are a little more literate . . . they actually write out the words "Frost Heave" but I have noticed more recent signs simply say "Bump" -- probably trying to save printing costs . . . or maybe they figure there are too many outer staters coming in who have no idea what a frost heave is.  

Incidentally, is this sign really for frost heaves . . . because if I saw this sign I would have no idea of what it means . . . maybe rough road ahead or grating ahead.


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## wendell (Feb 26, 2009)

or maybe little small houses built really close together ahead.

We just use "Bump" here in the Midwest. There isn't much doubt as to what caused it!


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## fossil (Feb 26, 2009)

I thought that meant "Camp Here for Alien Abduction".  Rick


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## wendell (Feb 26, 2009)

If you think this sign means "Camp Here for Alien Abduction", you might be a Redneck. 


Just kiddin' Rick. I just figured Jeff Foxworthy had to bust into this thread at some point.


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## fossil (Feb 26, 2009)

I'm gonna look to find me one of them signs, and that's where I'm gonna camp out.  It's been a good spell since I was last abducted, but as I recollect I had a right nice time up there.  I'll check down New Mexico way, I hear there's some activity there from time to time.    Rick


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## savageactor7 (Mar 3, 2009)

Frost heave is another reason we got away from stacking and went to piling. The only wood we stack is our junk shoulder season wood...almost hate to call it junk cause it works so perfectly. Anyway this pile was perfectly stacked before winter.


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## Apprentice_GM (Mar 3, 2009)

That's an impressive amount of lean for a still standing stack of wood!

What a pain frost heave must be. Does it cause issues with structural things like buildings? Or do the codes factor it in and force you to over-engineer accordingly?

That wood looks great to me too, do you term it "junk" wood because it is less BTU's compared to what you burn in winter?


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## Backwoods Savage (Mar 3, 2009)

Apprentice_GM said:
			
		

> That's an impressive amount of lean for a still standing stack of wood!
> 
> What a pain frost heave must be. Does it cause issues with structural things like buildings? Or do the codes factor it in and force you to over-engineer accordingly?
> 
> That wood looks great to me too, do you term it "junk" wood because it is less BTU's compared to what you burn in winter?



With buildings, the foundations all go below frost level. Even more of a problem is frost going down and freezing water lines. Especially where water lines go across a driveway. Driving over the area tends to send the frost deeper. That is why we have all our water lines 42" deep or deeper.


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## LLigetfa (Mar 3, 2009)

savageactor7 said:
			
		

> Frost heave is another reason...


When I was stacking outdoors, I laid down a base of 5 foot long junk wood.  That way all three rows move together as one.  I also laced in some 5 footers at both ends to tie the three rows together.

Now I have a 10' by 20' concrete slab to stack on.  There is a one foot grid of rebar in the concrete but the slab still cracked from the frost.  The poles of the shed go below the frost but the frost has been grabbing them by the sides and jacking them up year after year.


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## savageactor7 (Mar 4, 2009)

Well you're both right about engineering solutions to overcome frost heave, sure there's always a work around. But I'm not willing to make that sacrifice for shoulder season wood.

*That’s an impressive amount of lean for a still standing stack of wood!*

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing when Savage mentioning frost heave... I've been keeping my eye on it sometimes the stacks will return to somewhat normal. If it recovers I snap a pic in April.


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## TreePapa (Mar 4, 2009)

savageactor7 said:
			
		

> Frost heave is another reason we got away from stacking and went to piling. The only wood we stack is our junk shoulder season wood...almost hate to call it junk cause it works so perfectly. Anyway this pile was perfectly stacked before winter.



would be interesting to see how long that wood can defy gravity!

Peace,
- Sequoia


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## savageactor7 (Mar 4, 2009)

^I've been watching that all winter wanting to do something about it. Trouble is when the frost resettles the stack can fail because of the correction you make. 

Usually by this time of years we're already got almost half that pile burned cause of all the mild days we have. This year there were no mild days and the snow stayed the entire winter. Whatever happens I'll post a pic since enough of you are curious.


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## karri0n (Mar 4, 2009)

Photoshop 


Seriously, that's a cool pic. I'll be interested to see if it rights itself or topples. My money is on topples, but luckily by that time my money won't be worth anything even if I'm wrong.


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## LLigetfa (Mar 5, 2009)

I use a hand tamper to nudge a recalcitrant stack back to plumb.


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## Apprentice_GM (Mar 5, 2009)

^ "recalcitrant" 

What a wonderful word! Totally off-topic, but our former Prime Minister, Paul Keating, used this to describe someone (I think it was an overseas leader) and all the journo's had to go and look it up, then most of Oz got hit with it from every media angle for a week! Now we all know and use it liberally 



			
				savageactor7 said:
			
		

> ^I've been watching that all winter wanting to do something about it. Trouble is when the frost resettles the stack can fail because of the correction you make.
> 
> Usually by this time of years we're already got almost half that pile burned cause of all the mild days we have. This year there were no mild days and the snow stayed the entire winter. Whatever happens I'll post a pic since enough of you are curious.



I'd like to see what happens  I hope it re-settles back to where it was! If you prop a stick against it, will that stop it falling? Then when it corrects the stick can just fall over.


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## savageactor7 (Mar 18, 2009)

savageactor7 said:
			
		

> Frost heave is another reason we got away from stacking and went to piling. The only wood we stack is our junk shoulder season wood...almost hate to call it junk cause it works so perfectly. Anyway this pile was perfectly stacked before winter.



Here's a recent pic that shows the heaving stack recovering a little from the frost heave...it could fully recover or come crashing down. March is a tricky month as the frost moves threw the ground...




...plumbers will tell you around here more underground pipes will freeze now that's it's getting mild than when it was below zero...go figure!


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## LLigetfa (Mar 18, 2009)

That pile obviously got pushed back toward plumb and didn't get that way by itself.


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## karri0n (Mar 18, 2009)

LLigetfa said:
			
		

> That pile obviously got pushed back toward plumb and didn't get that way by itself.




As the pic below scientifically demonstrates, I'm calling shenanigans. There is now a "step" effect where there was none before, while below the step the angle remains the same.


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## fossil (Mar 18, 2009)

Leprechauns stabilized it in the middle of the night.  There's _nothing_ the little people hate more than a tumbling wood stack.  Rick


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## johnn (Mar 19, 2009)

LLigetfa said:
			
		

> You mean this one?



So thats what this means?


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## savageactor7 (Mar 19, 2009)

I swear no shenanigans on my part...I got a full plate playing clean up to National Grid. They cut tons of trees through their 1500' right away.

Besides we know better than to mess with any stacks suffering from frost heave. Haven't touched one of those logs since they been split last summer. I take another pic this afternoon and we'll see how it's doing.


edit to update 5:30pm






Like I said usually that pile is mostly gone but this winter didn't have any mild days in store for us. That other side could still collapse too.

This is another reason why we don't stack anymore but since it's shoulder season wood and does have some punky wood we have to stack it for a maximum burn.


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## savageactor7 (Mar 21, 2009)

Well all you posters who suggested the wood pile was manipulated were correct.


Since I posted that last pic the wife noticed we were burning shoulder wood. Instead of re-stacking I'm just gonna burn that fallen wood up. Anyway I mentioned that yeah I'm taking it from a pile that collapsed behind the garage. She said HUH? she thought that side would have rid out the frost otherwise she would have fixed that side too. WTF?

Apparently she was out with the dogs one day and just decided on her own to shore up the row on the right and never told me about it. So that's the skinny on that.... sorry to mislead you guys.

I should have been convinced by karri0n photo shop but NOoooo!...it's always about me, I'm the only one that does anything around here.

...reason #47 why she's a keeper.


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## Shipper50 (Mar 22, 2009)

Savage,

You live on a golf course? I must be the only one who thinks your yard looks like a fairway. And I haven't golfed in close to 6 years and thought that.

Shipper


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## savageactor7 (Mar 23, 2009)

Hi Shipper, no I don't live on a GC. But everything you see past those dwarf apple trees is a fairway cut. We have about 7 or so of those 6' WalMart bicycle flags stuck in the ground...all less than 100 yards apart. We practice the short game for recreation, every hole is a par 3 and you're considered holed in when the ball is withing the length of the club.

Generally speaking if I hit a 6 and can't see the ball sitting up pretty...it's time to mow.


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## LLigetfa (Apr 17, 2009)

I've been watching my stack of rounds that are waiting to be split and noticed part the first row starting to lean.  This morning as I was leaving for work, it was at its worst and I wondered if it was going to go down or not.  This thread came to mind.  When I got home the whole bloody row was laying down in the water soaking it up through the end grain.


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## karri0n (Apr 17, 2009)

savageactor7 said:
			
		

> Well all you posters who suggested the wood pile was manipulated were correct.
> 
> 
> Since I posted that last pic the wife noticed we were burning shoulder wood. Instead of re-stacking I'm just gonna burn that fallen wood up. Anyway I mentioned that yeah I'm taking it from a pile that collapsed behind the garage. She said HUH? she thought that side would have rid out the frost otherwise she would have fixed that side too. WTF?
> ...



To be honest, this is actually what I suspected. I believed you when you said no shenanigans on your part, so I figured someone else must have played shenanigans and you didn't know about it. Wife was the #1 culprit


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## ChillyGator (Apr 17, 2009)

Apprentice_GM said:
			
		

> Just a question out of curiosity - what is the problem with snow through the stack? Wouldn't the warm air just melt it and it drains away? What is frost heaving?



It's a Yankee thing.....u don't want to go there.


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## LLigetfa (Apr 26, 2009)

Looks like the next row is getting pushed by the frost now.


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