# Pellet Stove versus Propane Room Heater



## UpStateNY (Dec 29, 2014)

Has anyone posted a study here on pellet stove versus propane LP Gas vented room heaters?  

As a pellet stove owner for 5 years now, the real savings advantage for my pellet stove is the ability to heat a few rooms where we spend the most time at a higher comfortable temp than the other rooms in the house.  Current cost of wood pellets has gone up 30% and propane LP gas has come down significantly.  I see some of these vented room wall heaters can produce 65,000 BTU.  Some don't require any electricity, which could be useful during a power outage.  I am no expert on these propane LP gas heaters.  I only just started looking at them.   Obviously the propane gas doesn't require any physical work, which might be useful when I get a older and can no longer carry 40lb bags up stairs.


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## Husky (Dec 29, 2014)

Don't get to excited about changing over. These prices on gas, oil and propane will not last. If you are constantly chasing the lowest cost fuel for your heating you will have to spend an awful lot of money on different appliances. If you do, make sure not to sell what you have but put it in storage. This way you won't be kicking yourself later. By next year this time you will be happy again with pellets or wood.


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## Bioburner (Dec 29, 2014)

We had to install a secondary heat source to qualify for off peak electricity. Picked up the stove and everything for install but the siding standoff for around $300. Alladin-Dovre 300DV Used as a backup if no electricity. Used now only for Christmas and New years ambiance.


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## acammer (Dec 29, 2014)

I have a Napoleon GDS28 that I run on LP in my added on living room where I have no heat ducts from the central air handler for the LP furnace and pellet stove.  I like it for a quick supplement to the coldest room in the house - it's ~22,000BTU of output and warms the room up very quick indeed.  If I let it rip for a while it'll supplement the whole house.  It works without electricity which is a nice bonus as well.

I've done the math and at my current $2.49/gal of LP it costs 71 cents an hour to run (excluding electricity for the distribution fan).  My pellet stove on its highest setting costs 50 cents an hour (again excluding electricity) to operate ($5/40lbs bag).  For comparisons sake, my house requires approximately 500,000BTU a day when it's 25*F ambient outside for 70*F inside.  To heat with pellets that'll cost $10 for the day, with the LP Stove that'll cost $16.13.  If I used the LP furnace with is more efficient I can cut the LP costs to $12.72.  Either way, pellet heat is still the cheapest by a few bucks a day, even with the low price of LP right now.


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## Fsappo (Dec 29, 2014)

If you are already getting a "heating rate" on LP..which today may be about $2.00 a gallon, I'd go with LP.  What little bit more you may spend some years on LP over pellets will easily be offset by not driving to get pellets, cleaning the stove, worrying if the power goes out, costly repairs/parts, etc.

If you do not have propane already and are looking to buy propane simply to service the stove, you can, in some cases pay 50 to 100% more than the "heating" price per gallon.  If that's the case, pellets will save you money, even during the twice a decade pellet price spikes.


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## UpStateNY (Dec 30, 2014)

acammer said:


> I have a Napoleon GDS28 that I run on LP in my added on living room where I have no heat ducts from the central air handler for the LP furnace and pellet stove.  I like it for a quick supplement to the coldest room in the house - it's ~22,000BTU of output and warms the room up very quick indeed.  If I let it rip for a while it'll supplement the whole house.  It works without electricity which is a nice bonus as well.
> 
> I've done the math and at my current $2.49/gal of LP it costs 71 cents an hour to run (excluding electricity for the distribution fan).  My pellet stove on its highest setting costs 50 cents an hour (again excluding electricity) to operate ($5/40lbs bag).  For comparisons sake, my house requires approximately 500,000BTU a day when it's 25*F ambient outside for 70*F inside.  To heat with pellets that'll cost $10 for the day, with the LP Stove that'll cost $16.13.  If I used the LP furnace with is more efficient I can cut the LP costs to $12.72.  Either way, pellet heat is still the cheapest by a few bucks a day, even with the low price of LP right now.



Thanks.  I searched for your Napoleon GDS28 and found the following two propane stoves which looked interesting.  Looks like the direct vents like these two require electricity.  And your  B-Vent Napoleon GDS28 does not require electric.  

http://www.efireplacestore.com/npl-gds20.html

http://www.efireplacestore.com/npl-gds26.html

Thanks again


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## Bioburner (Dec 30, 2014)

The race to raise efficiency has lead manufactures to install power vents and replace standing pilot lights etc.


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## sportbikerider78 (Dec 30, 2014)

I would love an LP heater for my basement.  Please post up what you find out.


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## acammer (Dec 30, 2014)

Bioburner said:


> The race to raise efficiency has lead manufactures to install power vents and replace standing pilot lights etc.



Yea, both of those stoves probably have higher efficiency.  The GDS28 is rated 85% efficienty, but I don't know how much of a stretch that really is.  But, it works nicely - again the best part of LP is it's fast - I crank that thing up and I can raise the temperature 10*F in the room in 15-20 minutes - and that's with it cranked down to the lowest setting (for max efficiency).


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## acammer (Dec 30, 2014)

Of course after writing the above I felt compelled to go look those two stoves up, the manufacturer rates the GDS26 @ 82% efficient and  the GDS20 @ 78% efficient.  I'm not sure what drives those differences.


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## Bioburner (Dec 30, 2014)

Continuous operation and length of venting to extract heat from exhaust in the fine print. I am happy that I would never get the $$$$ saved in what little use we need verse the fact the entire install was close to $300.Takes a lot of years to get a return of investment on a few % of efficiency.


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## acammer (Dec 30, 2014)

Bioburner said:


> Continuous operation and length of venting to extract heat from exhaust in the fine print. I am happy that I would never get the $$$$ saved in what little use we need verse the fact the entire install was close to $300.Takes a lot of years to get a return of investment on a few % of efficiency.



Agreed - you gotta run a given piece of equipment an lot in order to pay off a few extra points of efficiency.  On a primary heat source in a cold climate, it's probably worth it long term.  Something that runs a handful of times a year, certainly not a primary deciding factor.


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## Seasoned Oak (Dec 30, 2014)

LP is one of the MOST expensive ways to heat your space. Correct me if im wrong but i think it would have to be $1.60 or less just to beat out heating oil. I use portable propane heaters but getting those gas grill tanks filled cost around $4 a gallon,more expensive than electric resistance.


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## sportbikerider78 (Dec 30, 2014)

LP isn't cheap.  However, it burns hot, burns clean, starts instantly and has very little waste heat.


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## SKOAL MAN (Dec 30, 2014)

These things are awesome in a finished basement! http://www.rinnai.us/direct-vent-wall-furnace Instant heat that is whisper quiet! We had one in our 17X50 rec room. When I would get home from work and the wood stove was out, just crank this baby on, comfortable in minutes!


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## woodmakesheat (Dec 30, 2014)

LP is $3.30/gallon here. Rip off.


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## UpStateNY (Dec 30, 2014)

Seasoned Oak said:


> LP is one of the MOST expensive ways to heat your space. Correct me if im wrong but i think it would have to be $1.60 or less just to beat out heating oil. I use portable propane heaters but getting those gas grill tanks filled cost around $4 a gallon,more expensive than electric resistance.



My son has winter contract for LP at $2.19 per gallon, which is competitive with #2 Fuel Oil current price of $2.95 a gallon when you consider burning LP is typically 10% more efficient than #2 Fuel Oil.   My son lives on Southern NH.


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## acammer (Dec 30, 2014)

Quick comparison on Fuel Oil and Propane based on the beginning of December US average cost of both fuels, and average expected efficiency of each furnace type.  Fuel oil wins by a small margin - and when LP goes back up that gap will probably widen further.  I LP because I have to, not because I want to.

FUEL OIL: 138,000 BTU * 85% efficient / $3.20 = 36,656 BTU’s per dollar
PROPANE: 92,000 BTU * 92% efficient / $2.40 = 35,267 BTU’s per dollar


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## hyfire (Dec 30, 2014)

acammer said:


> Quick comparison on Fuel Oil and Propane based on the beginning of December US average cost of both fuels, and average expected efficiency of each furnace type.  Fuel oil wins by a small margin - and when LP goes back up that gap will probably widen further.  I LP because I have to, not because I want to.
> 
> FUEL OIL: 138,000 BTU * 85% efficient / $3.20 = 36,656 BTU’s per dollar
> PROPANE: 92,000 BTU * 92% efficient / $2.40 = 35,267 BTU’s per dollar



Both of you both lose compared to a heat pump 32,000 btu=3 kw x.15kw x 3=.45 cents =71,1111 BTU/ dollar...


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## acammer (Dec 30, 2014)

hyfire said:


> Both of you both lose compared to a heat pump 32,000 btu=3 kw x.15kw x 3=.45 cents =71,1111 BTU/ dollar...



Cost of geothermal install?  

I was actually thinking that this house we have now might be where we are for a long, long time and thus might be appropriate to work up a geothermal quote.


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## gfreek (Dec 30, 2014)

Fall propane fill was $2.19 gal..For me I'd get a propane stove or heater that uses no electricity..  & keep the pellet stove


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## Seasoned Oak (Dec 30, 2014)

I cant get LP for less than $3.50 a gallon so its always going to be more expensive for me.


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## acammer (Dec 30, 2014)

Seasoned Oak said:


> I cant get LP for less than $3.50 a gallon so its always going to be more expensive for me.



Yea, at $3.50/gal (it was like that last year around here) I wouldn't even consider LP unless I didn't have a choice.  Pellets are paying off for me this year, but when LP prices climb back up as they are sure to do, it'll really start being attractive.


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## hyfire (Dec 30, 2014)

You would not get that kind of performance probably on a ducted furnace system, I was thinking ductless split heat pump, but your output would be limited to around 25, 000 btu, so you could not heat the whole house with it, you would need to use the pellet stove or propane/oil system.  The cost of a geothermal would take a very long time to payback.  If you want to heat one large room it would reduce your heating costs, I;m sure of it.. You want to look for models that support low ambient heating .


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## jss227 (Dec 30, 2014)

SKOAL MAN said:


> These things are awesome in a finished basement! http://www.rinnai.us/direct-vent-wall-furnace Instant heat that is whisper quiet! We had one in our 17X50 rec room. When I would get home from work and the wood stove was out, just crank this baby on, comfortable in minutes!


 I have one of these in one of my living rooms. It will suck through a 100 gallon tank in three weeks. At 3.12 a gallon I burn a ton of pellets a month in two stoves heating 3000 sq. ft. for less than heating half my house for three weeks with the propane heater.


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## bcarton (Dec 31, 2014)

I have friends and relatives who have either the Rinnai or the Monitor heaters.  Everyone says they work very well, require little maintenance, and throw a lot of heat. From everything I've heard, the heaters are superior quality products. Whether the fuel is affordable is a different question. But the hardware product quality sounds really respectable.


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## SKOAL MAN (Dec 31, 2014)

jss227 said:


> I have one of these in one of my living rooms. It will suck through a 100 gallon tank in three weeks. At 3.12 a gallon I burn a ton of pellets a month in two stoves heating 3000 sq. ft. for less than heating half my house for three weeks with the propane heater.


But at $1.70 average what most people in the north east are paying is only $200 a month! I don't know what you are paying for a ton of pellets but I doubt its less than $200.


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## fevest (Dec 31, 2014)

Here in maryland, where propane is priced stupid.  The price is based on how much you use and what you use it for.  I have a propane stove, which I don't use.  they just topped off my propane.  5.80 a gallon.  Which is why I don't use the stove.  Propane also runs my generac and outdoor grill or I would get rid of it.


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## hyfire (Dec 31, 2014)

fevest said:


> Here in maryland, where propane is priced stupid.  The price is based on how much you use and what you use it for.  I have a propane stove, which I don't use.  they just topped off my propane.  5.80 a gallon.  Which is why I don't use the stove.  Propane also runs my generac and outdoor grill or I would get rid of it.



Wow you got to find a better heating source...........


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## jss227 (Dec 31, 2014)

SKOAL MAN said:


> But at $1.70 average what most people in the north east are paying is only $200 a month! I don't know what you are paying for a ton of pellets but I doubt its less than $200.


 I'm about as northeast as you can get, so I don't know where you are getting your pricing. I pay $240 a ton for pellets, so even at your price for propane it would still be cheaper for me to heat with pellets. $240 to heat whole house per month or $200 for half of house with propane.


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## UpStateNY (Dec 31, 2014)

fevest said:


> Here in maryland, where propane is priced stupid.  The price is based on how much you use and what you use it for.  I have a propane stove, which I don't use.  they just topped off my propane.  5.80 a gallon.  Which is why I don't use the stove.  Propane also runs my generac and outdoor grill or I would get rid of it.



Interesting marketing strategy.  The less propane you use the more they charge per gallon. The more propane you use the less they charge for propane.  This is probably because they own the propane tank.  If you owned the propane tank I bet you could buy propane for around $2 a gallon.


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## SKOAL MAN (Dec 31, 2014)

50 cents a liter here right now, that works out to $1.62 US /gal.  Its a space heater!


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## woodmakesheat (Dec 31, 2014)

SKOAL MAN said:


> 50 cents a liter here right now, that works out to $1.62 US /gal.  Its a space heater!



I'm happy for you. It's not all that hard to look up prices in the Northeastern United States. http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pri_wfr_dcus_R1X_w.htm Average seems around $3/gallon through 12/22/14. Here's a survey of Massachusetts from 12/30/14: http://www.mass.gov/eea/energy-util...to-fuel-price-info/propane-price-surveys.html - the average is $3.04 though some are LUCKY enough to get it for as low as $1.97, which makes $250/ton pellets still 10% less expensive (assumed 92% efficient for propane, 75% for pellets.)


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## SKOAL MAN (Dec 31, 2014)

woodmakesheat said:


> I'm happy for you. It's not all that hard to look up prices in the Northeastern United States. http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pri_wfr_dcus_R1X_w.htm Average seems around $3/gallon through 12/22/14. Here's a survey of Massachusetts from 12/30/14: http://www.mass.gov/eea/energy-util...to-fuel-price-info/propane-price-surveys.html - the average is $3.04 though some are LUCKY enough to get it for as low as $1.97, which makes $250/ton pellets still 10% less expensive (assumed 92% efficient for propane, 75% for pellets.)


Who cares the post is about a room heater!


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## woodmakesheat (Dec 31, 2014)

SKOAL MAN said:


> Who cares the post is about a room heater!



My pellet stove is a room heater. It heats the entire house. 

I'm a room heater too - I put out about 100 kcal/hour sitting here, or about 115 BTU/hr.


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## hyfire (Dec 31, 2014)

Getting back on track the OP was trying to compare what is cheaper to run..........I still say the heat pump will help  you cut costs, but you still need another source of heat....and that will be what ever costs the cheapest to buy in your area.


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