# Ever wonder how Firewoods compared to Propane and Oil heat?



## Little Digger (Oct 14, 2015)

I'm sure this has been posted on this site many times over the years, but in case it hasn't check this link. It's a one page PDF file which does give at least the basics. Then get out the calculator and have at it. I rounded my numbers on the low side of hardwoods since I burn a wide variety of firewood, both hard and soft.

For me, I guestimated 20,000,000 btu's per cord divided by #2 oil at 138,500 btu's per gallon. 144.4 gallons per cord or about 288.8 gallons of fuel oil to equal 2 cord. For Propane (proPAIN  ) at 92,500 btu's per gallon, I would need 432.4 gallons to equal 2 cord.

I don't know what the going rate for fuel oil or propane is these days, but to me that adds up to a nice bit of savings especially since my firewood is free (other than the work to cut, split, and stack it).

Don't forget the cost of electricity to run the blowers. I went from an average of 32 kilowatt hours of usage a day during the winter months when I was burning fuel oil to 9 kilowatt hours of usage daily, but I also don't run the blower on the wood stove. I haven't found a need for it.

http://www.hrt.msu.edu/energy/pdf/heating value of common fuels.pdf


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## davidmsem (Oct 14, 2015)

I've only burned one year but enjoy the comfort, physically and emotionally, of burning. I did not save as much as I thought I would, but I'm still glad that I started burning.


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## Little Digger (Oct 14, 2015)

Considering I went through about 500 gallons of fuel oil the first winter I was here, I think the savings have been significant. That is after the new roof, adding proper ventilation, adding insulation, and sealing up air leaks. 500 gallons of fuel oil is roughly an equivalent to 3 and 1/3rd cord of wood. Last season I went though about 2 cord of wood and this season I'm hoping to use even less. My end goal is to be able to use one cord of wood per season or less. 

Even if I needed to burn 10 cord of wood for a given season, I would. Wood heat doesn't seem to dry the air nearly as much as fuel oil or propane, and as you said (Dave) it is a comfort both physically and emotionally.


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## STIHLY DAN (Oct 14, 2015)

I use 5-6 cord a year. I used to use around 800 gals of oil.  So I'm at your rate but the house is 10-12 degrees warmer.


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## Poindexter (Oct 14, 2015)

I cit my oil usage from 2000 gallons of #2 with no wood stove down to 800 last year with a catalytic BK working hard.

  I make DHW wirh the oil furnace and the last daughter moved away in august.  I can already see a difference in the water bill...


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## Oregon aloha (Oct 15, 2015)

We used 800 gallons of propane the first year so I insulated the ceilings and the floors. Changed all the windows. This cut the usage to 600 gallons. Started burning wood full-time and cut consumption to 350 gallons. Now we use 225 gallons a year with the addition of a tank less hot water heater. So wood heat has saved me 250 gallons of propane a year or about $500. We use about 2.5 cords a year and keep the house and dogs a lot warmer then before. At that kind of savings we could buy our wood already cut and split.


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## MaintenanceMan (Oct 15, 2015)

It's really not expensive for me to fire up the nat gas furnace and heat this house. But the stove keeps it more comfortable and even though the savings is small, it still adds up. It's as much or more about it being a hobby as it is saving money. We do save a bit, but the real payoff is in the satisfaction I get cutting, splitting, stacking wood and providing my own heat. I do enjoy seeing that minuscule gas bill though. I dry clothes, cook, heat water, and do run the furnace some for less than $50 a month at the worst.


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## blades (Oct 15, 2015)

Heck around here there is almost $30 of add on charges before you even flip a switch or lite a burner $20 just for meter rental- ( dang I have paid for those meters many times over already)


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## Little Digger (Oct 15, 2015)

Here in the Communist State of Virginia for the electrical charges alone there are quite a few erroneous charges. (generation services, transmission services, distribution services, VA consumption tax, local consumers tax) Otherwise my electrical bill would be $8.21 and maybe add in the generation service for another $12.82, but as it is with all the other charges, with several that seem to be duplicate, my monthly bill is in the range of $41 for a total of 279 kilowatt hours. 

But it could be worse I suppose. If I were running the blower on the wood stove, that would raise it, and if I were using fuel oil and having to use the blowers my bills would skyrocket. But, it was inefficient so I removed the works. The complete setup is out in the shed including the vent pipe and cap that poked through the old roof. 

I guess everyone these days is in it for the almighty dollar! If they can charge you for the air you breath, they will!


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## AmbDrvr253 (Oct 15, 2015)

I do agree at the current price of #2 it almost makes sense to use oil. With wood though the house is warmer, i do not feel bad getting the house to 78 F, and all my wood is free(except gas and time)


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## iamlucky13 (Oct 15, 2015)

I put together a spreadsheet a few years ago with similar heating values, adjusted for efficiency of the appliance I would use to heat my house (example, a natural gas furnace loses 5-15% of its heat out the exhaust, and a ducted system loses 20-30% of its heat to the crawlspace/attic), and also costs, and then approximated how many BTU's I should need on a cool winter day. I did not try to factor in electricity to run blowers. Maybe down the road.

For the local energy costs and my house, these are some of my current approximations. Since energy costs vary by region, and heating demand varies by house, your numbers will definitely vary, but these figures are consistent with my power bills:

Heater @ Fuel Cost -  Cost per day

Ducted Heat Pump @ $0.085/kWh - $3.43
Douglas Fir in EPA-certified Stove @ $200/cord - $3.81
Natural Gas Furnace @ $1.25/therm - $5.34
Wood Pellet Stove @ $250/ton - $5.82
Electric Baseboard @ $0.085/kWh - $7.65
Oil Furnace @ $2.50/gallon - $8.27
Electric Furnace @ $0.085/kWh - $9.56
Propane Furnace @ $2.50/gallon - $11.73

The spreadsheet started out to help decide how to replace a 30 year old electric furnace - my real estate agent thought propane was a good idea, but between high propane prices and low electricity prices in the NW, it turned out to be a bad idea. I included natural gas out of curiosity, but it's not available at my house. It also helped me realize how much money I save by burning a fire when the weather gets too cold for the heat pump, so the auxiliary heat takes over at almost $10/day.


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## JRHAWK9 (Oct 15, 2015)

We averaged 1,300 gallons of LP a year from 2005-2008 (highest was 1,550 gallons), with a 92% efficient furnace.  2009 is when we started using wood (fireplace) to supplement.


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## BlueRidgeMark (Oct 15, 2015)

Nothing to compare to in this house. It's never had anything but wood heat and some supplementation with electric heaters at the coldest times.  That's probably behind me now since I put in a duct & blower to bring the hot air to the other end of the house.  

Even in last winter's bitterest cold, the coldest  we've had while in this house, and we were plenty comfortable without any need for electric heat.  Used less wood, too.

When you figure the cost of free wood, some gas & maintenance for the splitter and saws, and I'm pretty sure we're coming out on the favorable end of the calculation.


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## English BoB (Oct 15, 2015)

My neighbor was just telling me this week it takes 1000 gals of oil to heat and run his house every year.

I am keeping a closer eye on my wood piles from now on 

My other neighbor is all electric...he gets $1000.00 monthly bills during the winter.

Stay away from my wood....

bob


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## johneh (Oct 15, 2015)

I burn 5 cord of hard wood a year
The oil furnace is there and a new oil tank
never bought any oil in the last 36 years
Only reason for oil furnace is for the insurance Co
Thy think oil is my primary heat source . Yes they
 know I heat with wood !!


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## Tom Wallace (Oct 15, 2015)

Little Digger said:


> I don't know what the going rate for fuel oil or propane is these days, but to me that adds up to a nice bit of savings especially since my firewood is free (other than the work to cut, split, and stack it).



I bought my house in 2011 and was using an oil furnace the first winter. Back then oil cost around $3.80/gallon in the Seattle area. That number may have been different in other parts of the country. After I got my first oil delivery bill (little over $1,000 in February) I started looking into alternate heat sources and that's what lead me to Hearth.com. Been warm and happy ever since. Spent about $3,500 on the stove + liner, did install myself and have probably recouped that cost already in oil savings.


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## Pat32rf (Oct 15, 2015)

I cry when I see your rates down there. Here in Ontario I pay .20 cents /kwh total with all taxes and charges  and during the winter use 100kwh/day, but that is for two houses. Two water pumps, numerous fridges and freezers, two DHW tanks and lighting. We have a three tier hydro billing rate with the cheapest in the middle of the night, 
We cut and burnt about 12 bush cord last year, mostly maple, some oak, birch, ash, beach and poplar. The first ten years we were here I was able to use dead wood while only heating one house but now I am cutting live wood and its hard getting it to dry before it goes into the woodshed. Once it is in there, only the outside row seems to dry much more. 
One year we had a buddy with a new wood processor show up. We went from logs to woodshed in two hours....four bush cord. Two years later that last row of wood was still not dry....


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## planner steve (Oct 16, 2015)

iamlucky13 said:


> I put together a spreadsheet a few years ago with similar heating values, adjusted for efficiency of the appliance I would use to heat my house (example, a natural gas furnace loses 5-15% of its heat out the exhaust, and a ducted system loses 20-30% of its heat to the crawlspace/attic), and also costs, and then approximated how many BTU's I should need on a cool winter day. I did not try to factor in electricity to run blowers. Maybe down the road.
> 
> For the local energy costs and my house, these are some of my current approximations. Since energy costs vary by region, and heating demand varies by house, your numbers will definitely vary, but these figures are consistent with my power bills:
> 
> ...


Your heat pump to auxiliary heat calculations look similar to mine.  My woodstove is not EPA certified, so I figure with the lower efficiency I can pay around $150 per cord of Doug Fir and breakeven with the heat pump.  But I only get "free" wood which has some costs like chainsaw fuel, driving to pick it up, etc.  This really is a hobby more than cost saving strategy, but it is nice when you can do both.


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## iron (Feb 17, 2016)

planner steve said:


> Your heat pump to auxiliary heat calculations look similar to mine.  My woodstove is not EPA certified, so I figure with the lower efficiency I can pay around $150 per cord of Doug Fir and breakeven with the heat pump.  But I only get "free" wood which has some costs like chainsaw fuel, driving to pick it up, etc.  This really is a hobby more than cost saving strategy, but it is nice when you can do both.



what SEER are you using to determine your heat pump costs?


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## FaithfulWoodsman (Feb 17, 2016)

We were spending around $1500/year to keep our semi uninsulated concrete block ranch a chilly 68'. We now keep it a cozy 73-75 (everyone knows wood heat is just warmer) for only the cost to css and run the blower on the wood furnace..........pennies on the dollar for us! Never going back to propane!


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## heavy hammer (Feb 17, 2016)

I used to heat my whole house with a natural gas boiler.  Five years ago we put in the new Oslo to replace the old Sears stove and have never looked back.  The stove heats 3/4 of our house very comfortably.  I know the stove has paid for itself so far, but with gas prices the way they are I can see why people use it.  I do agree with others that the heat from wood burning is much nicer.  I love a warm house this time a year, plus processing firewood is a enjoyable time plus great exercise.  I don't think I could ever own a house with having a stove for some extra heat.  Plus having a forty dollar a month gas bill in the middle of winter is very easy on the pocket book.  I say burn on.


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## TJ1 (Feb 17, 2016)

I would guess with todays oil prices oil might be cheaper than wood if you factor in the cost of either paying to have the wood delivered or the costs of the chainsaws, chains, fuel, bar oil, etc. Plus the time involved.


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## drz1050 (Feb 17, 2016)

johneh said:


> I burn 5 cord of hard wood a year
> The oil furnace is there and a new oil tank
> never bought any oil in the last 36 years
> Only reason for oil furnace is for the insurance Co
> ...



Might want to fill that tank up this year with the current prices.. 
I'm in a similar boat as you. I heat primarily with my woodstove, but still use a little bit of oil here and there when I go away for the weekend. This tank should last me about 3 years though at the current rate of usage.


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## iamlucky13 (Feb 18, 2016)

TJ1 said:


> I would guess with todays oil prices oil might be cheaper than wood if you factor in the cost of either paying to have the wood delivered or the costs of the chainsaws, chains, fuel, bar oil, etc. Plus the time involved.



I estimate that heating oil at $2/gallon in a mid-efficiency (~85%) boiler has roughly the same effective cost 25 million BTU/cord hardwood valued at $325 a cord, with no other costs included in either.

If using a furnace, that pushes the effective cost of heating oil up a bit more, because you'll lose some heat from any ducts that run through a crawlspace or attic. On the other hand, I suppose in some places you can get oil for less than $2/gallon right now.

So economically, the picture still looks pretty good for wood, but each person does have to give consideration to how much they value their time, and if factors like the coziness of a fire or the bit of extra mess of wood add or subtract any value to them.


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## webfish (Feb 18, 2016)

https://www.hearth.com/talk/calculators/fuel-cost-comparison


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## begreen (Feb 18, 2016)

iamlucky13 said:


> I put together a spreadsheet a few years ago with similar heating values, adjusted for efficiency of the appliance I would use to heat my house (example, a natural gas furnace loses 5-15% of its heat out the exhaust, and a ducted system loses 20-30% of its heat to the crawlspace/attic), and also costs, and then approximated how many BTU's I should need on a cool winter day. I did not try to factor in electricity to run blowers. Maybe down the road.
> 
> For the local energy costs and my house, these are some of my current approximations. Since energy costs vary by region, and heating demand varies by house, your numbers will definitely vary, but these figures are consistent with my power bills:
> 
> ...



Propane prices locally are nuts. The are monopolized in a captive market. Go 40-50 miles north and Cenex propane is a buck cheaper. Are those Seattle prices for electric? PSE electric is up to $.11 now. A cord of doug fir is $300 locally.


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## blades (Feb 19, 2016)

The base fuel prices are cheap the gotchya is all the add on expenses- meters rental.  transportation , deadbeat( ya we get charged a percentage for those who don't pay their bills) and of course the fuel adjustment charge ( thats so they can charge a higher price even if what they paid was considerable lower for the futures)


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## Wood1Dennis (Feb 19, 2016)

Here is the best calculator that I have found for comparing heating cost. It is fun to play around with efficiency and fuel cost. No matter how I do it my $20 / cord estimate (saw fuel, chain, maint., etc.) for wood I cut myself off of my land always comes up cheapest 

https://ag.purdue.edu/extension/renewable-energy/Documents/ON-Farm/heatcalc.xls

Dennis


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## HybridFyre (Feb 19, 2016)

begreen said:


> Propane prices locally are nuts. The are monopolized in a captive market. Go 40-50 miles north and Cenex propane is a buck cheaper. Are those Seattle prices for electric? PSE electric is up to $.11 now. A cord of doug fir is $300 locally.



Yikes. I can't imagine paying $300 for doug fir. We get lucky in the northeast. Red Oak as far as the eye can see


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## begreen (Feb 19, 2016)

I'm sure it is much less the farther one gets away from the cities. Urban and suburban locations pay a stiff premium. Doug fir, soft maple and alder trees grow like weeds around here so it's not a question of availability.


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## iamlucky13 (Feb 19, 2016)

begreen said:


> Propane prices locally are nuts. The are monopolized in a captive market. Go 40-50 miles north and Cenex propane is a buck cheaper. Are those Seattle prices for electric? PSE electric is up to $.11 now. A cord of doug fir is $300 locally.



SnoPUD electric rates from 2-3 years ago. I updated it last week to $0.09815/kWh. They're climbing at 2-3 times the pace of inflation, despite medium term declines in basic energy prices (especially industrial natural gas). I expect we'll catch up to PSE in a few more years - oh the joys of no-bid contracts to personal friends of PUD leadership!

Propane prices came from the EIA at the time I put together the spreadsheet. I'm not surprised propane prices are out of line in Seattle. With easily available natural gas in the urban areas, the delivered propane market is probably too small to draw much competition.

I mostly see Douglas fir and maple going for $200-$250 a cord, "seasoned" for a week or two, but I haven't paid close attention since I've had no trouble scrounging wood and don't mind hauling and splitting it myself.


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## fire_man (Feb 20, 2016)

English BoB said:


> My other neighbor is all electric...he gets *$1000.00 monthly bills during the winte*r.
> 
> bob



 Is there a decimal point slip to the right in there?


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