# Harman XXV Buzzing



## moog5 (Jan 12, 2006)

I bought a brand new Harman XXV and since day 1 the distribution blower buzzes EXTREMELY LOUD.  The dealer has been out 3 times to fix it.   Replaced the blower once, tried other methods, and nothing works.  I have posted elsewhere and others have contacted me stating they have the exact same issue.  I called Harman Stoves and they tell me I have to go through the dealer.  The dealer tells me they are waiting on Harman for a fix.  Meanwhile I keep demanding (in writing) that they follow through with their so called "Gold Warranty" which states they will remedy defective items by either repairing or replacing.    

UPDATE 1/17/06 Buzzing finally fixed, see post on second sheet dated 1/17/06

UPDATE 2/16/06  Buzzing returned

UPDATE 2/26/06  No more buzz, see my post dated 2/26/06.   Harman finally had one do it in their factory and designed a fix which was implemented to my stove yesterday.  I am comfortable it worked for good this time.  If not I will update this thread.  So no more news is good news as far as I am concerned.


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## FireJumper (Jan 12, 2006)

Their is a air jacket located above the blower that may be making this noise. Did the dealer take the blower out and try to adjust this air jacket to make sure it is far enough away from the wheel? You could also check the wires to the blower to make sure they are out of reach of the blower. Just some ideas.


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## lime4x4 (Jan 12, 2006)

geez i thought i had issues with harman....I know exactly what your going thru


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## moog5 (Jan 12, 2006)

Immediately after installing the stove, the wire hitting something was thought maybe to be the cause.  This was part of the original trouble shooting they tried during the install which didn't work.

1st visit by tech, nothing done as far as I know.  They might have jiggled a few things, not sure, wasn't hear to watch.  When I got home that night, the stove still buzzed.

2nd visit by tech.  Removed Dist Blower Housing, replaced blower  Noise went away until that night, then noise returned.

3rd visit, apparently Harman instructed tech to try and bend some piece of metal in the stove which was bent wrong during the first few fab runs at the factory.   Per the dealers tech, they did this, but when I returned home that evening, the stove still buzzed when set over medium.  I have a 4 meg avi movie, give me you email and I will send it to you if you want.

Since my post above, I spoke directly to the Harman Rep.  He will be out next week to install a gasket between the blower housing and the unit.  The distribution blower mounts in a housing, which mounts up from the bottom of the stove.  Adding this gasket is supposed to lower the housing and the blower enough so that whatever the blower is hitting (now thought to be the source of the noise) it won't hit it any more.  Sounds logical, I will up date this  post whatever happens.  Until they fix this issue (and I will let everyone know) ,  until then I cannot recommend anyone buy the HARMAN XXV.   

Again, excuse me for expressing any frustrations I have, but  three months of a buzzing $3,000 pellet stove is ridiculous, and so far the "Gold Warranty" isn't worth the value of the paper it was written on.  Though they have been trying to fix it, as they haven't been able to (to date), they should just simply replace it with one that doesn't buzz (that is what the warranty says replace if repair doesn't work).  Too bad their wasn't a lemon law for pellet stoves.


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## wg_bent (Jan 12, 2006)

Neutral observation here.  It looks like the basics structural platform of Harmon's is sound, but the electronics and moving parts are not.  

Many folks seem to indicate that the Harmon's are built very well, and I noted in a previous post that a Harmon Mark I is over 350lbs whereas a Morso 1410 coal is more like 180lbs.    But this thread and Lime's both point at the moving electrical related parts.


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## lime4x4 (Jan 12, 2006)

Pete i know what your going thru.I myself spent 3K for a coal stoker that isn't working properly.When i talk to the dealer half the time it feels like i'm not getting no where.
The dealer and harman basicaly have said the stove is malfunctioning due to my draft or my perception of how it works is wrong.Even thou there Manual clearly states a high burn is 3 feed dots
This stove will only burn on 2 dots without pushing hot coal over the grates.Now i'm being told to ignore that part of the manual that's just there for an example.I know personaly people that have coal stoves i know what a high burn should feel like this stoker ain't even close. I know 4 people that have reading coal stokers that are rated lower btu then mine plus alot cheaper and they throw some serious heat.there getting 600 to 700 degree surface temps and they have a good 2 inch ashline before the end of the grates When mine gets that hot it's pushing off hot coals but i'm told it's just my perception.i guess it doesn't always pay to get the best..Keep us posted


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## FireJumper (Jan 12, 2006)

lime4x4 said:
			
		

> Pete i know what your going thru.I myself spent 3K for a coal stoker that isn't working properly.When i talk to the dealer half the time it feels like i'm not getting no where.
> The dealer and harman basicaly have said the stove is malfunctioning due to my draft or my perception of how it works is wrong.Even thou there Manual clearly states a high burn is 3 feed dots
> This stove will only burn on 2 dots without pushing hot coal over the grates.Now i'm being told to ignore that part of the manual that's just there for an example.I know personaly people that have coal stoves i know what a high burn should feel like this stoker ain't even close. I know 4 people that have reading coal stokers that are rated lower btu then mine plus alot cheaper and they throw some serious heat.there getting 600 to 700 degree surface temps and they have a good 2 inch ashline before the end of the grates When mine gets that hot it's pushing off hot coals but i'm told it's just my perception.i guess it doesn't always pay to get the best..Keep us posted



Where do you have the setting set at on the control box? What position do you have the restrictor plate on the combustion blower? In other words how far open to you have it?


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## lime4x4 (Jan 12, 2006)

firejumper i pm'ed u..Don't want to hijake pete's thread


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## HarryBack (Jan 12, 2006)

Interesting issue on the XXV for sure. Ive got several out there, and have burned our floor model since September. I havent as yet had any buzzing from any units (guessing abt 15 units), or any other problems as well. Although I have had other buzzing units....usually turned out to be the black plastic combustion fan cover coming loose and making a heck of a racket. Heres a question.....did they remove the dist fan and jumper it and run it by itself, say in an outlet? If so, did it make noise then? Buzzing has to be either a loose part, a foreign item in the blower, or tranferred vibration (unbalanced blower?) Odd that the dealer hasnt really pressed the issue with Harman....I can imagine a buzzing could be a real pain. As I am sure youve guessed, we are a Harman dealer, and as one, you figure I am not going to admit to problems with the units.....not true. If there were a problem I would acknowledge it as well. Harman has had problems for sure. You most likely do have a defective unit, but nothing that is most likely "unfixable".....I think possibly the dealer or their tech hasnt exhausted all possibilities as of yet. Good luck with the unit!


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## moog5 (Jan 13, 2006)

During their 2nd visit they replaced the blower as I watched.  I didn't see them jumper it.  I was going to suggest that, but figured  I better keep my nose out of the techs business.

With respect to the coal setting issue, I have no clue how coal stoves work, but with the feed rate adjuster setting on the XXV pellet stove, the owners manual had be go through a procedure to figure out what the appropriate feed rate adjuster setting was for the pellets I am burning.  I believe it stated that typically a 4 setting works, I had to go down to 2 to maintain a 1" of ash.    

Harryback, don't get me wrong, the dealer has tried quite a few things to resolve this, but I feel like it is only because I have had to hound them over and over.  Again, if it weren't for the buzzing I would really love this stove (I must have when I bought it, heck I shelled out $3k for it).  Alot of the buy decision to buy had to do with my research on the warranty.  It should not take 3 months of time to remedy the warranty problem.


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## HarryBack (Jan 13, 2006)

ok- new info-
just received today info in fluttering or buzzing from my marketing rep for Harman....
literature says to loosen and tighten the screws on the end of the distribution shroud....two of them, each side....when tight, this fixes abt 80% of the stoves.....otherwise, pry up on the outlet.....pretty tough to explain.....Id suggest getting with your dealer, hopefully they have received this advice as well. As I said, just got this today. good luck!


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## moog5 (Jan 13, 2006)

Harry, thanks for the info.

I think mine is the other 20%, because during their third visit (prior to Xmas), they pried up on something which according to the tech fixed it (at least until he left, but when I got home it still buzzed).  My dealer put me in touch with their Harman Rep and the fix you are talking about sounds like what they  told the dealer tech to do on their third visit.   As that did not work, I must be the other 20% they are talking about.  The Rep himself is coming over next week to install a gasket which as I stated above is supposed to lower the housing and the blower.   Hopefully this gasket trick fixes this stove "the other 20%".  If it doesn't they need to just ship it back to Harman and replace it with a new one.  After all these attempts, I feel like if it does work, with my luck to date on this stove, it will work right up until the warranty expires.

Again, all I want is a Harman XXV that works like it is supposed to.


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## moog5 (Jan 18, 2006)

Today (1-17-06) the Harman Rep himself came to my home and worked on the buzzing noise coming from the distribution blower.  It has only been about 1/2 day, but I am pretty confident this fix worked.   He took the back panel off, as looking at it from the rear on the right side and immediately above the dist blower, he isolated the buzzing sound as eminating from the shroud immediately above the distribution blower.  On the right side (as viewed from the back), there are two pieces of sheet metal (see photo attached) which I believe they call the shroud. The two sections overlap eachother and are attached by a sheetmetal screw.  Their is a slight factory bend in these overlapping sections (I guess to help deflect the blower air up and into the heat exchanger.  The Harman Rep (and myself after watching his method to isolate the sound) believe that the tip of this screw which joins these two sections of sheetmetal was just barely touching a piece of metal behind it (I believe a section of the the distribution blower housing).  The fix the rep came up with was very simple, he wedged a small piece of stove gasket material immediately behind the this shroud where the screw was contacting whatever it was hitting.  This was enough to keep the tip of screw from contacting metal behind it.  With the dist blower at high, it apparently was enough to cause a high frequency resonant vibration, causing metal (the tip of the screw) to contact metal (I think part of the dist blower housing) and make the buzzing sound.  Wedging the gasket material behind it apparently kept the screw from contacting the the metal behind it.

After 4 visits, 3 by the dealer tech, and 1 by the rep himself, I think it is finally fixed as it hasn't buzzed all day.  This stove now acts like a $3k stove should.

I am now a happy camper.  Thankyou Harman for standing behind your warranty.  I now like this stove (ok' love this stove) as much as the fist day I saw it in the store.  No more buzzing.  

Thankyou Harman for your extended efforts at resolving this issue.  You can keep the term "gold" in your warranty.


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## ColdinPA (Jan 18, 2006)

I do not understand why you were so down on Harman? Buzzing is a problem, no question about that.  I am glad that the rep was able to solve your problem. But you just spent alot of time bashing Harman products. Now you quickly changed your key. Sounds like you are one of those people who screams and cries till they get what they want.
Next time I have a problem with my Chevy truck, I am going on line and Bashing Chevy until it's fixed. then I will retract my statement once the dealer has become intelligent enough to service it. (Sarcasm)

Let's all read this thread.
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/1035/

Not trying to be overly negative toward you, but man......

By the way, if you ever have a problem with the XXV again, before crying on a message board, please feel free to contact me. I will be happy to take it off your hands.  I have a great dealer with a great service department. I will have no trouble with that I can assure you.


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## lime4x4 (Jan 18, 2006)

coldinpa Is the fact that it takes so long to get something fixed or they just treat u like your an idiot..I have my own issues with a brand new harman coal stoker that's been on going for over 2 months now and it still isn't fixed yet. That's the problem in the nut shell we shell out all this money and half the time it's like they just don't care cause they got your money..And your comment about the chevy.Well i'm a certified chevy tech that works for a well established dealer.And we c alot of people with compliants about there vechiles but the thing is the problem is either fixed within a day or the cust is told how long till a fix is available.We keep incontact with the cust.Alot of dealers have the attitude that we will get to it when we get to it..Sorry that isn't right..When i first had problems with my stove i called the dealer. After 10 days i still didn't hear back from the dealer till i called again and i got the impression that the dealer just wanted me to go away...


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## lime4x4 (Jan 18, 2006)

also if we attempt to repair a cust brand new vechile after 3 attempts for the same compliant the cust is intitled to have the vechile bought back


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## moog5 (Jan 19, 2006)

ColdinPA said:
			
		

> I do not understand why you were so down on Harman? Buzzing is a problem, no question about that.  I am glad that the rep was able to solve your problem. But you just spent alot of time bashing Harman products. Now you quickly changed your key. Sounds like you are one of those people who screams and cries till they get what they want.
> Next time I have a problem with my Chevy truck, I am going on line and Bashing Chevy until it's fixed. then I will retract my statement once the dealer has become intelligent enough to service it. (Sarcasm)
> 
> Let's all read this thread.
> ...



Dear ColdinPA: I wish you would have posted earliar with your reply, I would have taken you up on your offer to trade my previously buzzing xxv for a brand new one that didn't buzz (..........did I read more into your offer than what you really mean, what did you mean?).  

Let me recap, here is why I was upset enough to air my frustration with my stove.  I paid $3000 for a brand new pellet stove in August, the dealer installed it on 10/27/05.  As soon as I plugged it in it buzzed.  Dealer worked on it for a good hour and couldn't make the buzz go away.  Hoping that for some magical reason the buzz might go away, I agree to give it a few weeks with hopes the issue resolves itself.  I guess I shouldn't have pulled it off the lot that day (oh, I fogot it's a 375lb stove with no wheels and this model is backordered for 2 to 3 months (so I am told).   

Now it's starting to get cold and my old Whitfield that never had one problem (in 10 years) is sitting in my garage with a "sold" sign on it.  After two weeks of the xxv buzz not resolving itself, I call the dealer and the dealers "Harman trained tech" comes out to work on it.  Supposedly he makes buzz go away, all I know is that it buzzed when I got home that night.  I call the next day, and about a 1 to 2 weeks later another visit (they replace the blower) buzzing stops until that night when it starts again.  I call again...third visit by tech (they follow steps outlined by Harman try bending the shroud up) supposedly this fixes the problem,.....until that night when I get home, ...yes still buzzing. .....man.   I call for a 4th visit and they tell me they are waiting on Harman for a fix.......man, I call the factory (and get knowhere).  Man am I frustrated.  

Now it's late December, I get frustrated enough to find this forum and tell people what I have been encountering.   As soon as I do, I get emails telling me they are having the same problem with the same model but a different dealer (they just must have not been as peaved as I was to post about it).  Call it "bashing", "crying", "stating facts", or "squeeking enough to get greased", I don't care what you call it.  All I know was I wasn't the only one with this issue, but obviously one of the most vocal.  Do you think that these posts had anything to do with getting the buzz resolved (I don't know, kind of makes me wonder)?

Now after 3 months of buzzing, I finally got the the issue resolved.  I have to admit that after I got it fixed, I did feel a little bad for casting a shadow on Harman's image in this forum (but you know what, I got over it, specially after I gazed into the magical fire of my now quite XXV). Heck, if the glass wasn't so damn hot, I would run over right now and give it a big hug and kiss........man I must really do love this stove.    Seriously, as I felt a little bad about potentially tarnishing Harmans image, I made sure to let everyone know they finally came through backed up the warranty.  Thinking back, after 3 months of this issue, 3 visits from the dealer tech service, then being told Harman recognizes the issue and they are waiting for Harman to come up with a fix,  I seem to recall thinking how much longer are they going to insist I accept this?  If they can't fix it, shouldn't they replace it?   Oh did I mention I paid $3k for this stove ? (sarcasm).

With respect to comparisons about bashing a Chevy, I wouldn't make the decision to buy, or not buy a Chevy based on one persons thread in a forum on the internet.  Those that read this in the future that are in the market for a pellet stove likely will have a brain and can judge for themselves.  I did before I bought a Harman.  I recall reading a complaint or two about a Harman, and then a whole lot more about some of the other better known brands.   If I were in the market again for a new pellet stove, to tell you the truth I would still buy a Harman (even considering the buzzing issue I had to endure for 3 months).  

When I almost got over my feelings about tarnishing the Harman image, I read your post, and now I have to feel bad all over again.  I hope I get over it,....... it might take another day though.  Bash, ... change of tune,..... bash, I am so confused.


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## ColdinPA (Jan 19, 2006)

What you said further re-enforces the fact that EVERYONE seems to want to blame Harman for what their dealer does or doesn't do.  Is the fact that the Harman trained Tech / Dealer couldn't find the problem Harman's fault? By the way it sounds....No.    
3 Months to get it fixed... Harman's fault? ....No.
Is definitely not Harman's fault that just because you scream "jump", they didn't say "how high sir"!!
It is Harman's fault the rattle was there in the first place.  That I agree with. But it is a new model. New models have bugs. If they know about a problem that is inherent, they fix it. Period. I am sure the rep will let them know about it!!
3 Months is to long to get it fixed, that I agree with.
Did you expect Harman to get on a plane and fly out to fix your stove? 
I would not have bashed Harman. I would have bashed my dealer.  I would have called Harman and had them Bash the dealer too.  They should have fixed it or replaced it. That simple.  You had every right to be mad. Just be mad at the right people.  I am sure Harman would have joined you in your fight if you would have asked them to. 

Oh... I never said trade. I said if you wanna get rid of your XXV, let me know! I am a Die-Hard Harman owner.  I doubt your Whitfield could come close to the Harman. You should have just thrown the Whitfield in the trash.  Have you ever tried to call Whitfield's support line? LOL Try it sometime!!  Then you will know why I switched to Harman. Even if I had to go through my dealer, they still helped me with that!!  More than I can say about Whitfield or anyone else out there.


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## moog5 (Jan 22, 2006)

Guess what my stove did this morning.  Yes it buzzed again with the distribution blower on high.  Though it is not doing it now, I am not feeling too comfortable that the fourth attempt to "fix" it worked.

OK Harman dealers, what would you do if you sold this stove.   Would you simply just replace my stove (knowing that as you state, you would  have to pay shipping costs), or would you just continue trying to fix it.  If I were a dealer, and had to pay the shipping, I would likely just keep trying to fix it.  This is getting old, real old.  

ColdinPa, if this were your Harman Stove I don't think you would be a die hard Harman man.


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## HarryBack (Jan 23, 2006)

Pete S said:
			
		

> Guess what my stove did this morning.  Yes it buzzed again with the distribution blower on high.  Though it is not doing it now, I am not feeling too comfortable that the fourth attempt to "fix" it worked.
> 
> OK Harman dealers, what would you do if you sold this stove.   Would you simply just replace my stove (knowing that as you state, you would  have to pay shipping costs), or would you just continue trying to fix it.  If I were a dealer, and had to pay the shipping, I would likely just keep trying to fix it.  This is getting old, real old.
> 
> ColdinPa, if this were your Harman Stove I don't think you would be a die hard Harman man.



I guess I would agree and continue to fix it. Harman has to give the ok to send a stove back to them, so until they said so, I wouldnt send it to them. My second choice would be to take the stove back, and pay you what you paid for it. What I wouldnt give you back was the money for the pellets you burned, the installation price, and the price for the pipe, as you can reuse the pipe. I also probably wouldnt refund the delivery fee, if any. Its been my experience that once someone is disenchanted with a unit, even after a fix and it runs perfectly, they will forever complain, etc. Sometimes better to cut your losses, remove the stove, rework it, sell it as used, as long as its safe to do so. Also I would not sell you another stove, and suggest another means of heat with another stove company. To me it sounds as if your complaints are valid, but some folks expect too much....a completely silent stove, never have to clean, no maintenance, etc. Again, I must stress it sounds your complaint is valid, so I am not knocking you...just saying what I would do as a dealer.


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## moog5 (Jan 23, 2006)

HarryBack said:
			
		

> Pete S said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Harry, thanks for the response....with all due respect, if you were my Harman dealer and worked on this stove as many times as my dealer (_who is more than competent_), including the the Harman Rep (_who is more than competent_), and agreed to fix it, but then after repeated visits finally decided that you were just going to pull the stove out of my house and refund my money because it was out of your hands and in Harmans, I would point to the warranty and show you where it says repair or replace ( I need heat, you can't just simply pull it in the middle of winter).  If you determined that you could legally just refund my money, I would just go to the next dealer an buy the same model because I truly believe that this unit is just an anomoly (_ ...maybe one out of 5,000 or 10,000 with a problem which can't be readily fixed after after 4 visits_).  If you want to run you business by labeling customers as "_easily disenchanted_" when the promised product the customer paid for is not delivered, then refuse to do business with them, this is America, you have every right to run your business how you want to.  If you suggested to me that I use an alternate form of heat, I would tell you thanks for the advice, then ignore it, I have been using a pellet stove for the past 10+ years without a problem (not counting this buzzing issue).

Harman and/or the dealer aren't the only ones being subjected to add'l costs here.  These repeated visits by service techs are not only costly and frustrating for the dealer/tech, the rep, and Harman, but everytime I have to miss work to meet the service tech I at my house it costs me roughly $200+ in lost earnings.  

Harry: I don't want to sound as if I don't appreciate your response, because I do.  I am just trying to tell you not all customers are ignorant.  I realize maintenance and noise from blowers, augers and other moving parts are inherent with pellet stoves.  With my old Whitfield I had the additional clink clink of pellets falling into the pot, not on this stove.  On the Whitfield there wasn't even an ash drawer, I had to completely shut it down and vacuum it out about every 3rd or 4th day, plus I performed all the maintenance on it at least twice a season, it's not exactly a rocket science.   

All I want is what I paid for, it's pretty simple when you think about it.  I believe the only "win/win" solution for all partys is to simply replace this anomoly.  If it's not the dealers decision, than it must be Harman's.


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## davemich (Jan 23, 2006)

Pete S, I think what you did was was not out of line. Harmon gives the dealer the training and certification to service their stoves as a dealer. Free country last time I checked. If I laid out $3 grand for a stove and it was not running as advertised, I too would let the worldf know especially if I tried everything else and was getting nowhere. Harmon needs to realize that if a dealer reports an apparent problem that they are not able to fix, that they need to take action now, before it gets out of hand. Lime had issues with his $3 grand stoker and it took too long for Harmon to finally get his remedy. Customer service is key especially when there are alternatives out there. These forums are not new so they realized peeps will look for answers elsewhere if they are not getting service.


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## Rick-In-RI (Jan 23, 2006)

I purchased a Harman XXV a month ago, and like, Pete S, I am having a problem with the distribution blower. That is, the blower makes excessively loud buzzing/vibrating noise when set at or past the mid-point.  So, as you can see, there are others out here that are having problems with this stove. What really has me upset though, is the fact that I can’t get my dealer (located in RI) or Harman to return my phone calls or acknowledge the letters that I have sent to them asking them to address this issues. In fact, I have gotten more help form Pete S and his Harman representative. So, Needless to say, after spending $3K very heard earned dollars, my dealer and Harman have literally left me out in the cold (Caveat Emptor!)


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## HarryBack (Jan 23, 2006)

Pete, with all due respect, I considered not replying to your post, as I felt you are quite close to the issue, and any reply I might make would seem antagonistic. I didnt mean it as such. I simply told you what I would do. Beleive it or not, some people really shouldnt own a stove. Their area of expertise is in some other area. I AM NOT saying this is you, Pete, but surely you can concede that there are people who really lack what it takes to own a stove. 
As for the buzzing.......THERE IS A FIX.....its the sheet metal shroud around the distribution fan....it resonates....it can be gasketed to stop the vibration, but if its not done right and tightened well, it'll recurr. My marketing rep sent me pictures on how to rectify it, thanks to them....you know who you are, Charlie.  Really, go to the delear, see him face-to-face......demand satisfaction.....


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## HarryBack (Jan 24, 2006)

yup, ron, pretty much it in a nutshell.......Harman wants the dealer who sold the unit to service it. I suggest tho, as a Harman dealer, that if Harman DOES start having issues, like the buzzing XXV, that they get a fix, and get it darn quick, and let the dealer know about it....or at least acknowledge the problem to the dealers..........for instance, until very recently, I didnt know about the buzzing issue....none of the XXV's we sold do that, or the customers arent telling us. Heard about it here long before I heard about it from the marketing rep......one of the reasons I enjoy coming here. New info!


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## Rick-In-RI (Jan 26, 2006)

Last night, with the distribution blower set at its max,  I went in and pushed directly on the screw. 
Sure enough the noise stopped. After shutting it down, I pulled up on the deflector far enough to wedge the gasket material directly behind the screw (what a bear that was!) I still need to apply some silicon to the screw and to seal the gasket material in place, but it seems to have done the trick (although it seems like a temporary solution to me especially if the gasket material wears out!)

It makes me wonder if it would harm anything if the screw and/or the small section of the deflector were removed all together?  

Another solution would be to solder or tack weld the two pieces of the deflator together (Harman are you listening???) Then the screw could be safely removed?

All I know is that whoever came up with that design should be made to sit in a room and listen to that annoying buzzing noise for 8 hours. That way he/she will put a little more thought into the next time they design something. 

PS

Has anyone seen or heard from my dealer?


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## HarryBack (Jan 27, 2006)

try replacing the screws with rivets, or using RTV silicone as a gasket....stuff is like glue, sticks well when dry.


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## Rick-In-RI (Jan 27, 2006)

Well, my enthusiasm was short lived. When I got home last night the old Harman XXV 
was buzzing like a nest of mad hornets. So much for the “band-aid” fix that Harman gave us. 

Today, I’m contacting our local news station consumer group. Maybe a little negative television exposure will get Ocean State’s and The Harman Stove Company Attention!   

In the meantime, does anyone know how to remove the distribution blower? I see four 5/16-inch screws underneath the stove that seem to hold it in place (all four screws are close in proximity
To on another where I would expect to see two screws at each corner of the blower.) My thinking is if I can get the blower out, then maybe I can bend the deflector up and prevent it from making contact with the blower housing.


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## moog5 (Jan 28, 2006)

I believe it drops straight out the bottom (after taking the screws out).  I believe the "bending the deflector" fix is what the tech tried on the third trip out (which fixed it until I got home that night).

My XXV hasn't buzzed since Jan 22, 5 whole days have gone by without a buzz.  I am feeling a bit spoiled right now.  Rick, you have got to be extra frustrated since your dealer appears to be ignoring you (my dealer came out 3 separate times), then finally the Harman Rep.  Maybe my Harman Rep can contact the Harman Rep in your area and get your stove the attention it needs.  I still have his card and phone number, email me if you need it and I will send it to you.  

I agree with Rick, the gasket fix does seem like a bandaid approach (especially since mine buzzed for a short duration after my local (CA/Nev) Harman Rep implemented it (again ...hasn't buzzed in 5 days)     

Harryback: is the fix that my Harman Rep implemented (the gasket trick, description and picture above in this thread) the same as what Harman is telling their dealers to use?  I am little confused, what exactly is making the buzz,.... is it the tip of the screw hitting the blower housing, or the two pieces of overlapping sheetmetal resonating and slapping against eachother? If it is the tip of the screw, then the gasket does seem like a bandaid fix.  A rivet does sound like a better option, or possibly filing off the tip of the screw.


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## stovemanken (Jan 28, 2006)

There has been a lot of good infomation here, but I think the problem hasn't been isolated, but now it has been.

Point #1:  The problem with noises is duplicating them so they can be properly diagnosed, especially under controlled conditions.  The first good news is, that has been done.

Point #2:  The second good news is that there is a relatively quick fix that will be available very soon, so stay close to your dealer.  I haven't seen it, but it could be a "no-parts" needed or commonly available remedies (pop-rivet?). An even better fix is in the works.

Point #3:  The third point I'd like to make is that this has been a intermittant or even isolated problem.  Note that HarryBack has sold many XXVs and hasn't seen the problem.  There are other dealers who have seen 1 stove out of literally 100s sold.  That is a two edged sword, as I mentioned in point #1, you can't hear what is the complaint if you can't duplicate it.

Point #4:  Check out any other bulletin board and you will see many postings with complaints and concerns.  I had a Diesel Jetta for many years, and if you read the postings on that BB, you would never buy one!  Yet I had over 150,000 miles of trouble free performance.  Name any other product that has a BB following it, and you will see most of the posting are problems, not rave reviews.

One of my favorite sayings goes something like this:  If you are a doctor, you think everyone in the world is sick, because only sick people make appointments to see you.  No one ever makes an appointment to stop by and say "I feel terrific!  Thanks, doc, for taking such good care of me."  Maybe we should take the time to let dealers and manufacturers know when and if they do something right.

Now before someone gets too excited, I know there are good reviews on this website, and some folks do say good things about their stoves, too.  My point is that human nature being what it is, we have a tendency to see the bad before the good.  Another good saying is "don't let the perfect become the enemy of the good."

SMK


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## Rick-In-RI (Jan 30, 2006)

SMK;

My XXV does it each and every time day-in and day-out. So duplicating the noise for my dealer (and I use that term loosely!) is easy enough to do. However, as you may have seen in my other posting, I can't get my dealer (or Harman) to service my stove at all! So, here I am caught in a catch 22.  Add the fact that if I try to fix the problem myself, and something goes wrong; I’ll end up voiding the warranty!


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## stovemanken (Jan 30, 2006)

I can't defend your dealer; I wouldn't know him from Adam.  With that being said, if he had not been informed as to a fix via a Harman service bulletin, all he could do was guess as to the cause & cure.  As you can see from all the postings, there has been a lot of guessing already, and that is an expensive proposition for any dealer.

As our host, Craig, has said before, it is unreasonable to think that ANY manufacturer has a ready supply of technicians ready to swoop in and fix an individual stove like a smoke jumper.  They MUST rely on their dealer.  Are some dealers better technically than others?  Unquestionably!  Are some better at after-sale-support than others? Absolutely!  Are there training sessions offered to the dealers in an attempt to bolster their skills? Definitely!  Do some dealers not take advantage of these manufacturer/rep sponsered schools? Yes, that happens.

 I believe HarryBack has said that a buyer needs to evaluate the stove AND the dealer when purchasing a stove.  Having spent a career in construction equipment, I know that a good dealer can make an average product perform well.  I have also seen good equipment's performance/reputatation ruined by poor dealer support.  I also believe/hope Harman and your rep are aware of this, and are doing whatever can be done to improve it.

I am only attempting to encourage you that help is indeed on the way.

SMK


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## HarryBack (Jan 30, 2006)

Well said, Ken!

BTW, I am in MA, and I did receive a bulletin from my marketing rep, NOT Harman, on a possible fix for the XXV buzzing issue. Received it about 3 weeks ago or so. Being as I believe my marketing rep is the same as the Rhode Island dealers is, Im guessing they have received it as well. Harman WONT COME OUT AND FIX YOUR STOVE. That is the dealers responsibility. Did you call and see if the dealer had any updates recently? I tried to get a copy of the document emailed to me from the marketer, but somehow in the process it got garbled....3 or 4 times actually. Dont own a scanner, so I cant scan mine.......but I can reasonably state that its quite likely someone at the dealer DID get the mailer...whether it was disseminated to other folks in the company I cant say....or maybe they tried the fixes shown and they didnt work?


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## HarryBack (Jan 30, 2006)

also, if you work on the stove yourself, I dont think you'll void the warrantee, so long as you dont use a sledgeghammer and axe and mangle things. Most parts are bolt-on anyways, and noone will know what you did. Heck, who doesnt tinker with stuff?


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## Rick-In-RI (Feb 2, 2006)

Does anyone know who the Harman representative is for the RI/MA area and, if so, how I could  contact him?


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## fbelec (Feb 2, 2006)

i've been reading all the posts on this buzzing fan problem and not having a harmon or a blower on my stove i kept my fingers off the keyboard. i'm a electrician and i run across this problem with other things alot. in my experience fans usually vibrate or buzz because of a couple reasons.

1 the fan not the motor meaning the squirrel cage or fan blade is out of balance

2 if the motor has a starting or running capacitor one of these or both could be bad or not the right value

3 the motor itself could be a cheap piece of junk.( in the case of most small fan motors it's usually the case)

if you pull it all apart and take the fan off the motor and turn on the motor without the speed control hooked up and it vibrates then the motor is junk.

also sometimes the speed controls are junk and they will make a good fan motor vibrate

those are a couple of things you can check. i know it's not right that you bought something and right out of the box it's not working right but if you like the stove and the manufac is not going to do anything but jerk you around then check out the few things that i wrote about here and possibly buy a motor of higher quality. if it's the motor take the motor and fan blade down to a motor shop they'll fix you up.

hope i helped in my small way. 
good luck guys
frank


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## Rick-In-RI (Feb 3, 2006)

Can you believe it, my dealer actually called and left a message on my machine yesterday!

He tells me that Harman is working on a fix (I thought that Harman already had the fix?) and that he will come out and fix the problem in two weeks. 

As I told pete S and Harryback, I don't know if it was the emails and letters that I sent to Harman or this forum, but someone must have jumped all over them and told them to get their act together. 

So, at this point, I'll wait and see if he shows up and fixes the problem before I clear his name. 

I'll keep you guys posted!


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## moog5 (Feb 17, 2006)

My Harman XXV is now buzzing again, (and loud!), just like it did on day one.  $3000 for what?  I called my dealer and requested that they just pick this one up and replace it with one that doesn't buzz.   This is getting old, real old.


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## Rick-In-RI (Feb 17, 2006)

Pete S,

Well, in my case, Ocean State called to say that they are waiting to hear from HARMAN and that they will be out to fix it the following week. Well, two weeks have come and gone and not one word from them (Big Surprise there!) 

I can't believe that it's taking HARMAN this long to come up with a solution (God only knows the solutions that they have proposed so far have all failed!)

Like you, I am so frustrated, that I'm ready to turn it over to my lawyer and get this $3,000 piece of scrap iron out of my house and get my money back. 

At this point, rubbing two sticks together would have been just as effective.


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## Rick-In-RI (Feb 17, 2006)

Pete S

Call your dealer right away. 


After I read and replied to your post this morning, I decided to call Harman directly.
Well, after I read them the riot act about my dealer and the problem with the XXV, I 
got a call from one Harman’s reps. He told me that they recently had one of their
XXV’s act up prior to shipping. After analyzing the problem, they were able to isolate 
It to a steel plate located at the bottom of the exhaust. This steel plate is slotted (it will be screwed in all future XXV’s) and works itself loose (In fact one of the forums participants—whose identity will remain anonymous—had told me this several weeks ago.) 

*The bottom line is that they need to apply a CLAMP  (I just hope that it’s not another  “band-aid” fix like all the other!!) However they swear up and down that this will fix it once and for all.*

Also, I guess calling them paid off because my dealer is coming out on Monday to fix it. 

 I'll keep you posted.


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## galen (Feb 17, 2006)

I was going to buy a Harman but now have second thoughts about warranty backed issues. This problem should never had gone this far. Harman in their ads like to show how they started out in a house on the block. Sounds like they are too big to be bothered with "small " customer issues. They made the stove, they should send someone out to fix it. The dealers are clearly in the dark and Harman is wasting not only the deals time but the customers time too. I have changed my opinion of Harman. This is clearly a warranty issue. Someone stated that they didn't want to work on the stove them selves because they didn't want to void the warranty. What warranty? I'm going to look somewhere else. I'm glad I found the forum so as not to make a costly mistake.


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## pelletheat (Feb 18, 2006)

I don't think the warranty is the issue. Sounds like the dealer needed a kick in the backside from his sales rep to get off his lazy A$$ to get out and service his customer.
I personally don't expect GE,Amana,Whirlpool to show up at my house everytime I have a problem! 
No return phone call in 2 weeks from the date of the original call made by Rick in RI, sounds like the dealer is the one avoiding the problem.

Just my thoughts, :sick:


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## HarryBack (Feb 18, 2006)

I find it truly amazing really, that noone can solve this "buzzing" dilemma. Ive sold quite a few XXV's, but none of mine have "buzzed". It seems to me to be a vibrational noise. Whats vibrating? One the buzzing is isolated, it would seem to be fairly easy to fix. Harman has sent out a couple of reccommendations as to what to do, but it either doesnt get to the dealers, or the dealers dont read them, or they are inaccurate.   :sick:


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## galen (Feb 18, 2006)

Well also Harry, is the fact that its amazing that is problem with the stove has taken this long to fix. This was a new stove. In my business, I have three machines that cost me over three hundred thousand. I can call the company any time and trouble shoot them. I have owned them for ten years now and I think I know them better than the  techs do.  We are not talking rocket science here. I would have had that thing tore apart by now and have called the factory and said hey! You got a problem! But to jack around for weeks and months. There is just no excuse for this. I know that most are not as mechanically incline as some but someone should have taken care of this. I still fault Harman. They made it, period. There is a home show in ST. Joe Missouri today and there's a Harman dealer there. I'm going to go there today and see if he has had this problem and if there is a XXV there, I'm going to look at it.


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## pjmac (Feb 18, 2006)

I have had my Harman XXV up and running for one week and it too makes a buzzing noise. My noise just comes and goes. It seems the longer it runs the lease I am hearing the noise. The noise is coming from the distrubution blower and not the auger. My dealer said that there is a fix by using a 4-1/2" hose clamp. I think that Harman could come up with a better fix than something that sound like a cob job fix. That would be like buying a new car and the dealer says to just use a coat hanger or duct tape and fix the problem.


pjmac


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## moog5 (Feb 19, 2006)

My dealer promptly called back Friday and left a message and said the rep will be out to try the latest fix this Monday or Tuesday.  I haven't spoke to them, but again must insist that they just bring out a different xxv stove.  If they have a demo model in the sales room I'll take that one, switch it for mine, then they can work on this one in their store.

Not sure what the hose clamp fix is about, but if they plan to stick it on the axle of the blower to keep the blower from sliding over and rubbing, it seems to me that it won't be balanced very well.  Does anyone have a better description of what this hose clamp fix is about?


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## galen (Feb 19, 2006)

Went to the home show and acted stupid. Ask some very pointed questions and the salesperson said right up front the the 25 has had some problems but they have been fixed. I said what problems?? He siad it was in the blower motor. And it had been recalled. Oh really! How many? dozens but its been taken care of. OK I didn't want to argue. But this tells me one thing. Harman knows this of this problem. I overall think its a minor problem that can be taken care of easily after looking at the stove today. But I seen a couple of new stove I have never seen before which were a Bixby. And Amaizablase. These are corn stoves  Has anyone heard of them?


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## HarryBack (Feb 19, 2006)

galen said:
			
		

> Went to the home show and acted stupid. Ask some very pointed questions and the salesperson said right up front the the 25 has had some problems but they have been fixed. I said what problems?? He siad it was in the blower motor. And it had been recalled. Oh really! How many? dozens but its been taken care of. OK I didn't want to argue. But this tells me one thing. Harman knows this of this problem. I overall think its a minor problem that can be taken care of easily after looking at the stove today. But I seen a couple of new stove I have never seen before which were a Bixby. And Amaizablase. These are corn stoves  Has anyone heard of them?



Ive never heard of a "recall"....and i read every piece of mail....good and junk...that I get. Ive never heard of a "recall" at all. As Ive stated MANY times before, Ive not had any buzzing XXV's, but Im sure they exist, as I read about PeteS and all....he wouldnt post unless he had noises. And its also true that noone can find out what the buzzing is? Personally, I guess Id suggest going to the stove and listening for the buzz...by ear or stethoscope....find out whats vibrating, and fix it. I hear its the distributuin fan, and it makes sense you'd hear it more at times, because its a variable speed fan. The infamous "radiator clamp fix" secures the shroud housing....hard to explain where it is, but, its fed above the exhaust port from the combustion fan side, out to the other side, and around, tightened, and it supposedly stops the buzzing....ive seen the pictures of it, but havent done it myself....havent needed to. If I have to, I will. We get to most warrantee issues pretty quickly, usually same day or next, depending on when it calls in. Most fixes are pretty easy, since most actually involve inadequate cleaning, tho im sure its not the case in this instance.


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## galen (Feb 19, 2006)

Harryback, I think it was just a line he was feeding me. They had a trailer setup outside  The XXV and P45 where both burning. It was very cold yesterday and I stood in front of them and they really push the hot air.  Both very nice looking. The Bixby and Amazablaze were there but not hot.  The Bixby was $3800 and the Amazablaze was $1300,$1700 . I just can't see spending 4K for a stove. Thats a lot of Propane. And a lot of moving parts. But nice.  I'm now checking out the ST. Croix, heard good things about them as a company.


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## Rick-In-RI (Feb 20, 2006)

Harry

The latest, greatest fix as you had mentioned: 



> The infamous “radiator clamp fix” secures the shroud housing...hard to explain where it is, but, its fed above the exhaust port from the combustion fan side, out to the other side, and around, tightened, and it supposedly stops the buzzing is the exact fix that the rep at Harman spoke to me about on Friday.



So let's recap what we know at this point.

Fix #1 - Place gasket material or silicone between the distribution blower and the shroud. 
*FAILED!*

Fix #2 - The screw holding to two sections of the shroud together need to be backed off. 
             Then place gasket material behind the screw and between the distribution blower 
             and the shroud. Another option was to use silicone in place of the gasket material
* FAILED!*

Fix #3 - Replace the distribution blower's motor. *FAILED!*

Fix # 4- Apply a 4 1/2 hose clamp--*The Jury is out *

I don't know about anyone else, but, as I have said several times, these are "Band-Aid" fixes
and I don't have much faith in any of them. 

In any case, my dealer called (finally) and is supposed to come out this afternoon to apply fix # 4. Having said that, when I asked him what time he would be arriving, I got the "I have to check my schedule and let you know." * Translation: I'm not going to show up at all *


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## galen (Feb 20, 2006)

Rick if you can be there when he "fixes" the stove, watch him and see if it looks like a bandaid fix. I didn't like the stuffing fix behind the screwhead at all.


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## HarryBack (Feb 20, 2006)

Rick-In-RI said:
			
		

> Harry
> 
> The latest, greatest fix as you had mentioned:
> 
> ...



well, here I go......please excuse me all for my next rant:

One reason why I considered posting here is because I had a few ideas as to what might stop the buzzing issue. Obviously you didnt appreciate the fact that someone might have a suggestion or two as to what could possibly be done in an attempt to remedy the situation. This is the exact reason why it usually isnt a good idea to service, or help, folks who didnt buy the unit from you. You get a PO'd person who is mad at YOU already for the failings of another....so you are entering with 3 strikes against you already....how can one win? Well, you are castigating ME for the radiator hose clamp fix, not having tried it at all.....Im guessing I told you about the fix long before your dealer would....but IM the bad guy.......it doesnt sound to me like youll be satisfied even if the fix does work....why dont you tell him that before he spends all kinds of time and effort trying to appease you, when you seem unappeaseable. 
Its possible that I misread your post, and that I took offense where none was meant to be, but I cannot fail to read between the lines of your post, and I understand you might be upset, but please dont blame me for issues you might have with your dealer or Harman......maybe it would be best for me to sit back, just lurk here and read the posts....chuckle a bit at your misfortunes even if I do possibly know of a fix......... :coolmad:


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## Rick-In-RI (Feb 20, 2006)

Harry;

My apologies.  I guess that I came sounding as though I was trashing you, but my intent was to trash Harman. So, for that, I am truly sorry. If it hadn’t been for you, I would be S.O.L. I do appreciate all your help, so please accept my apology.


Well, here’s the deal. Ocean State came out this afternoon to fix this monster. When I walked in, he had the heat and the distribution blower crank all the way up. From that, he told me he had it running this way for twenty minutes and he couldn’t replicate the noise. *GREAT!* 

*When I asked what he had done up to that point, he said that he had removed the distribution mounting screws (located under the stove on the side of the shroud) leaving the distribution blower running in a suspended state.*  That in turn pulled the distribution housing away so it no longer was in contact with the shroud and, in my case, the source of the noise. He then pushed up on the distribution blower from underneath the stove, and the noise started again. When he let up on it, the noise stopped. Push up on it again and it started, let up on it and it stopped. We preformed this cycle several times with the same result. At that point we both agreed to forego the clamp and just leave the distribution blower running in a suspended state as a temporary fix. He’s also going to call Harman, let them know what he found and wait to see what they say.

Again, Harry, I’m sorry!  My intention was to rant at Harman not at you. I do appreciate all your help.


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## Rick-In-RI (Feb 21, 2006)

All,

I went back and re-read that post that I wrote Monday morning and, boy, did I come off looking like a dumb-a$$. It definitely looked like I was pointing the finger at Harry and I can easily see how it could be taken wrong way. Once again, my rage was directed at Harman for sending four different technical bulletins without making absolutely sure they would work.  

Harry does provide a great deal of knowledge to this forum and I just hope that he will continue to share that knowledge with others. I would hate to think that I ruined it for everyone. So, once again, I would like to apologize to Harry and to anyone else that took offense to that posting (I guess that I shouldn’t post any messages so early on a Monday morning especially when I so grouchy!)

Well, as a result of removing those two mounting screws that hold the distribution blower housing in place, the XXV has been nice and quite all night long. It will be interesting to see what Harman comes back with after my dealer tells them what we found. I guess that I am a little concerned with the distribution blower floating like it is, especially if it ends up doing damage to the motor. So, before anyone starts turning screws, I would suggest that we wait and see what Harman comes back with.


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## fbelec (Feb 21, 2006)

i'm amazed to hear that this is still going on. if you guys with the buzzing put your hand on the blower when it's running and it's vibrating like crazy that means 1 of 2 things the motor is out of balance or a bad bearing or your fan is out of balance. the fan thing is very easy to do. and that's why some units buzz and some don't. all you have to do is slightly bend or put out of shape one of those fins on the fan and it's out of balance. with all the money you've paid for those stove (and i hope harmon is listening because thy should be ashamed of themselves for letting this go on as long as they did.) they should have came out and replaced the whole blower assembly and bang, the whole problem of unhappy customers and maybe a bad name for themselves is gone in a quick one time visit. to put it in different words that unbalanced fan is like a tire on your car being unbalanced and your driving on the highway at 60 mph. and if they just leave that unbalanced motor or fan what ever it is in there and stop the buzzing you hear now it's only a matter of time before something else vibrates loose and starts the buzz all over again. 
your paying for a top of the line stove you should be getting top of the line parts, not some 15 or 20 dollar bathroom fan motor. i feel bad for you guys that company shouldn't be treating anyone like that and if they find that one of they dealers is not treating a customer right then they should not be dealing with that dealer. your dealer is their front man and can make or break that company. especially if the company insists on making their front man take care of their customers

this posting is not aimed at the stove owners but the company that makes the stove.


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## HarryBack (Feb 22, 2006)

lol- dont be worried about looking like a dumb a$$m RI, read some of my posts, I do it all the time! Im thinking maybe it might be better to put washers under the plate to space it down, but also it will allow you to secure the screws so they arent loose...Im a little converned that they may owrk their way loose and your fan will drop right onto the floor.
As for Harman, I still stand by them...they are a great company with great folks working there. Yes, the dealer assists in making or breaking them, but their product goes a long way towards making or breaking themselves as well. I cant tell you how many complaints Ive had from customers about my closest neighboring dealer.......alot......ALOT! But, lets say Harman pulls their line.....someone else will have to take over the line, and take care of the customers as well.....i cannot imagine what a nightmare that might be........


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## Rick-In-RI (Feb 22, 2006)

Harry,


I agree with you that I should not let that distribution blower hang loose like it is. I'm waiting to hear from my dealer (Yes folks, Ocean State did finally show up!) who was to contact Harman and see what they say. 

I still wonder if that clamp is the answer in that it must somehow force the distribution blower housing down and away from the shroud. It also makes me wonder if, during the manufacturing process, the oversized some of these distribution blower housing units a bit. Hopefully, we will have an answer soon.

Pete S

Any progress on your XXV ???


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## moog5 (Feb 23, 2006)

My dealer will be out for the 6th time implementing one of Harman's latest fixes.  Yes the hose clamp.

My dealer agreed with my proposal to just swap my stove for their floor model, but after I learned that the floor model had the 25th anniversary logo ontop, I went back to preferring the hose clamp fix.  Sounds kind of funny, a "hose clamp" to fix what is an obvious design/fabrication error on Harmans part.     

Again, I have nothing but kudo's for my dealer, they have worked on my stove who knows how many times. Their hands are pretty much tied, and they have to keep on trying different fixes,... unless Harman agrees to take the stove back.  This must be why the lemon law was established.

What I find hard to understand is why after 4-5 months of Harman not being able to come up with a fix, why they feel it is good business to just force the loss of value off onto their end consumer.


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## moog5 (Feb 26, 2006)

The Harman rep came to my home yesterday and implemented the  *factory designed fix *(metal band clamp) which I truly believe is the final cureall for this issue.   I am very comfortable that this fix will work (I know I have said that before, but I really think this did it).  

He explained that the Harman finally found one with this issue that their engineers could analyze (_not sure why they didn't just have mine shipped back to them 4 months ago_).  As I understand their explanation,  Harmans engineers say the buzz is generated by the magnetic field emitted by the distribution blower motor which causes a very high frequency low amplitude vibration in the shroud .  Their fix he implemented adds a large metal clamp band (aka hose clamp) strapped around the exhaust line.  The clamp tightens up the contact between a section of sheet metal (contiguous with the shroud...I think?) which is overlapped onto the exhaust line, and prevents them from tapping against eachother.   This metal band clamp looks like the stove could have been designed with it (doesn't look hokey at all, like mine and other posts have indicated).    

As it is very clear that high frequency vibrations in the shroud sheet metal were causing it to tap on someother section of metal, we also cut the tip of the sheet metal screw off which connects the two sections of the shroud together (just in case the tip of it was contracting the distribution blower housing, because based on earliar poking and prodding, it sure did seem like the source of the noise).  This sheet metal screw was about 3/4"  long, alot longer than it needs to be.   

Also as one of the previous fixes was loosening the screws on the distribution blower box, he made sure to that the blower box was replaced back in a tight secure position.  I didn't want to mention this in earliar posts for fear of getting flamed as a whiner, but during an earliar repair attempt, one of the methods of repair was to back off on these screws to lower the distribution blower down a hair.  As after they implemented this fix and the section of gasket fix, the buzz occured with less frequency, but then stove in general seemed to be more noisy (I believe that this was due to this distributio blower box not being mounted securely).

One other thing worth mentioning is that during this fix, we took out the exhaust blower to examine if it needed to be cleaned out.  As I have burned close to 2 tons of pellets through this stove, I was expecting to see alot of ash deposits built up on both on the fins and the housing of the exhaust blower.  There wasn't any.  This reminded me of what Harry said in an earliar post (these Harmans burn extremely clean).  As he is a Harman dealer I just chalked that up salemen talk.  What he said is true, unlike my Whitfield Advantage III which I had for 10 years, this XXV does burn really clean.  When I would clean the Whitfield exhaust blower (one to two times per season), it was caked with ash, along with the exhaust pipe.  Something about how they designed this stove, the ash doesn't seem to get pulled through the exhaust.

In summary, I think this latest fix was it.  I know it has has only been one night, but this stove is now running really quiet, more quiet than ever. 

With respect to Harman, I still think they should have taken mine or someone elses stove back to the factory back in November, rather than making their customers (Rick in RI, me and anyone else with the issue) and have us beta test their proposed fixes.    It would have been a win-win situation for both of us.  Neither Rick nor I would have had to endure this buzz for as along as we have had to, and Harman would not have had to have who knows how many potential future XXV buyers read this thread (1,800 plus and counting).  Harman makes a solid stove, but needs to work on their customer relations.


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## HarryBack (Feb 27, 2006)

Congrats! Glad to hear the "hose clamp fix" worked for your stove. Even though the stove is fairly clean burning, make sure you do a complete cleanup at the end of the season to ensure easy startup in the fall.....with my own, we also coat the firebox and fans with oil once cleaned to act as a rust barrier in our humid off-season months. Hope this works for you, Pete.


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## pelletheat (Feb 27, 2006)

Pete,

Hopefully Rick in RI will see your post and have his dealer at his door by 8am Monday morning........


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## Rick-In-RI (Feb 27, 2006)

I am going to call my dealer this morning a let him know that the clamp seems to be the cure-all. Better yet, I let him tell me what he has found! 

It’s only 8 degrees here in New England this morning and the XXV should be cranking without me worrying about the distribution blower falling out of the bottom of the stove. 

Harry, 

What type of oil are we supposed to use to coat the fins and the fans?


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## HarryBack (Feb 27, 2006)

well, Rick.....this isnt really a Harman sanctioned thing, but Marvel Mystery Oil or Wd40


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## moog5 (Feb 28, 2006)

Rick:  

Sorry for the long winded explanation above.  Long story short...... after getting the hose clamp installed, MAKE SURE YOU CUT THE SCREW OFF which joins the two pieces of sheet metal shroud together (because I still feel like this might have been the culprit).  To cut it, I removed it, then grabbed onto it really hard with adjustable pliers and cut it off with a sawzall).   Then make sure the box is mounted up tight (hard to believe one of their proposed fixes was to loosen this).   If they stall off on coming out to install the clamp, then you might consider just doing these steps yourself. 

I also noticed on the lower right (as viewed from the back) that there was another sheet metal screw which comes up through the floor which was right adjacent to a section of the shroud (or someother vertical sheetmetal abbutting the floor).   It looked like it might be close enough to be in contact with the shroud so we packed the old piece of gasket (from before... remember that fix?) between the screw and the shroud.  


Again...this stove has never been this quiet ...EVER.   I finally feel like a made a sound $3000 investment.  I think you are almost there.


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## Rick-In-RI (Mar 8, 2006)

Pete S,

I was just wondering how your stove is doing now that they installed the clamp.

I called my dealer last Friday asking him to do the same to my stove. That was several days ago and I'm still waiting to hear back from him. LiKe Yogi said "It's Daja Vou all over again!"


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## moog5 (Mar 9, 2006)

Still running great, no sign of that irritating buzz returning.  Good luck, keep me updated.


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## Rick-In-RI (Mar 16, 2006)

I've been clamped!

Ocean State came out to my house yesterday and applied the clamp to my stove. So far, so good!
Although it took Harman several months to get a handle on it and three months to get my stove fixed, I just glad that it's over with. I'm also equally glad that Ocean State did finally make good on it.


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## patfan (Sep 28, 2008)

I have the same problem were did they place the clamp?


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## Sophie (Sep 28, 2008)

We have started a Yahoo Harman pellet stove users group - it was just started and have at least one tech and 40+ Harman owners so far - you might want to join - someone might be able to help you.  If you are interested go to:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/harmanpelletstoveusers/.


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## moog5 (Dec 17, 2008)

patfan said:
			
		

> I have the same problem were did they place the clamp?



Hey patfan.  go to the 2nd paragraph of post #60 on this thread for a description of where the clamp was placed.

FYI, since the fix, my XXV has run flawlessly for the past 3 seasons (non stop 6 mo/yr 24/7, except for cleaning shutdowns), now  into the 4th season with it, and I still love it and highly recommend it.   

I haven't been to this website for a long while.  Not sure how the Harman Stove Co is doing since they were bought.  HarryB you still here?   And why start a new yahoo group.  You can't beat this one, too many knowledgeable people on this site.


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