# Quadra Fire Santa Fe - multiple problems after sitting for the summer - one "snap disk bad," maybe a



## whit (Oct 22, 2011)

Hi, I've looked through the manual and the pinned advice here, and am making some progress. The blower wasn't running because "snap disk #1" failed while sitting unused for the summer. I confirmed that by putting a jumper wire in place of the disk. Okay the blower runs. But the augur still doesn't turn. I've checked the vacuum line, and tried putting a jumper in place of the vacuum switch, and the hose seems fine, the switch makes a nice click when blown into, and the jumper makes no difference to the augur. 

The manual suggests that it's possible snap disk #2 is defective. (These things just like to go bad while the stove's on vacation?) Unfortunately it doesn't describe where snap disk #2 lives. The service parts flyer just shows it floating in free space - obviously it's from somewhere down in the middle of things, but there's no indication of just where. From this parts catalog it looks like it's a "high limit" fuse. Where's that likely to be put? On the exhaust? Anyone know just where to find it?

The other thing the manual says to suspect is the control box. Hopefully it's not that, as those are spendy. 

There must be other possible causes for the augur not turning. It's not obviously jammed - removed all the pellets on top and put some back in to no effect after checking that. The exhaust pipe is freshly cleaned out.

Annoying that more than one thing has gone bad while the stove sat idle. Was working without a hitch into last spring. It's been through a couple of winters now.


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## smith10210 (Oct 22, 2011)

I had similar issues with my Quadra Castile which has only burned about 10 bags in the past 2 years.Mine wouldn't feed just the exhaust fan would run and you could here it clicking when i turned the thermostat on so what i did was unplug it pulled the control box reinstall it  and had to reset snap disc #2. Both my snap discs are near each other on the right side snap disc #2 has a red button in the middle to reset it but im sure yours are located somewhere else. Theres a pic of its location here scroll down to page 36 http://www.quadrafire.com/~/media/Files/Quadrafire/Installation Manuals/man_santaFe-MBK.ashx


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## tjnamtiw (Oct 22, 2011)

snap disc #2 is mounted on the drop tube.  According to my Sante Fe INSERT manual, the wires going to it are one orange and one black wire.  Like Smith said, there should be a reset button on it between the two terminals.  Push it in and see if you feel it reset.  AFTER UNPLUGGING THE STOVE!!  Very strange to have the snap discs go bad from sitting, I think.  Smith's also right about the Castile.  My #2 on it is on the lower right side at the back.


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## whit (Oct 23, 2011)

Nice to learn it has a reset button on it. Now ... to find it. Could that be behind the plate on the right side that snap disk #1 is on? Guess it might have to be.

It's the convection blower that's not going unless I jump snap disk #1. Is that a blower that isn't on until it warms up anyway? Maybe that disk's not bad then. "Snap disk" is a new term to me. I was thinking it was a sort of fuse.

Thanks for the quick advice.


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## whit (Oct 23, 2011)

Ah "disc." I'd tried to search the manual for "disk." Quadra-Fire spells it both ways. "Disk" is usually the American spelling, "disc" the English one, and "compact disc" has the English spelling since Phillips in the Netherlands prefers English English.

Manual says if I replace the thing I need to replace a gasket. Now, if it does have a reset button in this model, does getting that far also require a new gasket?


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## whit (Oct 23, 2011)

Maybe I should understand the theory. If the combustion blower is running, which it is, does that mean snap disc #2 is okay? Is that disc to turn off the combustion blower?

If that's the case, what should I be looking at?


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## SmokeyTheBear (Oct 23, 2011)

whit said:
			
		

> Maybe I should understand the theory. If the combustion blower is running, which it is, does that mean snap disc #2 is okay? Is that disc to turn off the combustion blower?
> 
> If that's the case, what should I be looking at?



No snap disc #2 is high limit it will prevent the auger from delivering pellets to the burn pot.

The combustion blower should start when you hit the start button (and the thermostat (if any) says hey heat is needed ) on the stove .


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## tjnamtiw (Oct 23, 2011)

Alright, I'm confused for sure now that I see your other posts and reread your initial post!  You initially said that the 'blower' wasn't running until you jumped snap disk #1.  That snap disk directly controls the 'CONVECTION BLOWER' that blows hot air through the tubes and into your room.  There's 110 volts to it waiting to get to the blower when the snap disk #1 gets hot enough.
Then you say that the auger isn't turning so one imagines that you have no fire in the  pot to get the stove hot.  So I'm confused why you are worrying about the convection blower not running when you have no fire.
Snap disk #2 like Smokey said is there as a safety in case things get too hot.  If you look behind the slanted tube that the pellets slide down, you will see the snap disk with the colored wires that I told you about.  There's a third disk back there, #3 that is an ultimate safety in case the fire gets into the auger tube and is heading to the hopper.  It is mounted on the auger tube.  

What symptoms are you trying to troubleshoot???


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## whit (Oct 23, 2011)

tjnamtiw said:
			
		

> Alright, I'm confused for sure now that I see your other posts and reread your initial post!  You initially said that the 'blower' wasn't running until you jumped snap disk #1.  That snap disk directly controls the 'CONVECTION BLOWER' that blows hot air through the tubes and into your room.  There's 110 volts to it waiting to get to the blower when the snap disk #1 gets hot enough.



Okay, I was simply confused on that one. My stove sits back in a corner, and since I can hardly start the thing without having it connected to the stove pipe, and never poked around in the wiring and motors before, there's a learning curve here, and limited visibility. Apologies.



> Then you say that the auger isn't turning so one imagines that you have no fire in the  pot to get the stove hot.  So I'm confused why you are worrying about the convection blower not running when you have no fire.



Because Quadra-Fire wasn't good enough to write a section of the manual explaining what each of the parts _do_, and how they inter-relate. It's obviously a pretty simple device. But I'm still working out the sense of it. Is there a theory section on this board I've overlooked?



> Snap disk #2 like Smokey said is there as a safety in case things get too hot.  If you look behind the slanted tube that the pellets slide down, you will see the snap disk with the colored wires that I told you about.  There's a third disk back there, #3 that is an ultimate safety in case the fire gets into the auger tube and is heading to the hopper.  It is mounted on the auger tube.



Okay, to get behind the slanted tube it looks like I need to pull the whole back off, now that I've found the section under "disc" in the manual. And it looks like I'm supposed to have a combustion blower replacement gasket at the ready? Least that's what it says.



> What symptoms are you trying to troubleshoot???



Aside from my symtomatic ignorance, the presenting problem is the augur isn't delivering any pellets. I've removed all pellets from the bin, vacuumed both ends with a strong vac, put some pellets back in, and still no delivery. The control box blue light will blink six blinks in a couple of sequences, whatever that means. Probably normal? Signals it's "calling"? But no pellets. Pressure switch seems to check out, and shorting it doesn't fix it, so can rule that out for now.

Now, if snap disk #2 has a couple of wires, are those coming from someplace more accessible where I can jump them and see if that restores service? Also, is this a snap disk with a reset button on it, or is the only course if it is the culprit a replacement?

Thanks again for the help.


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## jtakeman (Oct 23, 2011)

Make sure the auger is OK. Unplug the stove and get an old lamp cord(if this has a 120v motor) and supply power to the auger motor. Or you could use a meter to see if power is supplied on start up.

Did you leave it plugged in all summer?


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## whit (Oct 23, 2011)

j-takeman said:
			
		

> Make sure the auger is OK. Unplug the stove and get an old lamp cord(if this has a 120v motor) and supply power to the auger motor. Or you could use a meter to see if power is supplied on start up.



Okay. Need to figure out how to get to the augur motor, and if I can get there while the unit's still attached to the stove pipe. I take it the motor won't power unless there are pellets in the hopper, so disconnected from the stove pipe, to power it, guess I'd need to divert the pellets from the burn cup or disconnect the igniter?



> Did you leave it plugged in all summer?



No. Could that make a difference one way or the other?


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## jtakeman (Oct 23, 2011)

whit said:
			
		

> j-takeman said:
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We have seen some leave them connected. Power spikes from electric storms can kill components pretty easy. Even with surge suppressors installed. Safe bet to just unplug them.

You only need to see if it turns with power for a few seconds. Use the power strip with a switch to turn it right off. If it just sits there and hums. You have you problem solved. If it turns on its own, Reconnect every thing and re-fire it. Sometimes they may get stuck from sitting. I don't think you need to disconnect anything just a short second or 2 of on time to see if it spins shouldn't dump that much fuel. If you hot wire the auger, That's all that going to get power, Leave the stove unplugged while doing that! 

Or connect a meter and see if it getting power from the controller. No power something else is bad, Power and you have a stuck/dead auger motor.

Hard to explain without having hands on, Your our eyes/ears. Will get you there with acurate details!

P.S.
Becareful with connections. Mark them if you need to. Misplaced or shorted connections can kill expensive components. Or you if you not careful. Please be safe!


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## ssupercoolss (Oct 23, 2011)

another confused member here.  start from the begining.  what happens when you go to start it?  nothing?  first the exhaust fan should come on.  then in a few seconds it should start droping pellets. is the igniter starting?  dont worry about the convection blower as that wont come on untill about 10 mins into fire.  

j-takeman is probably eluding to a possible electric surge from a storm that will destroy the control board.  i know that happens from first hand experience.

did you pull the control board out and reset it?  make sure its unplugged.  

other than a blown control board, i have had no other issues with my sante fe.


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## Bkins (Oct 23, 2011)

On my quad Mt Vernon when the stove and pellet feed has been cleaned it often takes 4-5 pushes on the reset botton before pellets are primed in the augar system.  You should be able to hear or see if the augar is running shortly after pushing the rest button.  Even though its a PIA your going to have to get the covers off and see what is working or not.  I know your trying hard but its sounds like your hesitant to really dig in.  Just about everything in the stove has a way to be checked out as to whether its working or not.  The control box is the one item that can be hard to pin point.?  When your thermostat calls for heat and the stove turns on what exactly happens?  Have you poked a tooth pick into the connection for the rubber hose on the augar tube?  Do this carefully and make sure you don't break the tooth pick.  Also take off the rubber hose between the vac switch and the augar tube and make sure it has no fines or blockages in it.  This is a somewhat common place to have trouble because of the fines in the pellets.

The info I just gave you is generic as I don't own you model stove.


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## whit (Oct 23, 2011)

Bkins said:
			
		

> On my quad Mt Vernon when the stove and pellet feed has been cleaned it often takes 4-5 pushes on the reset botton before pellets are primed in the augar system.  You should be able to hear or see if the augar is running shortly after pushing the rest button.



Tried that, many times. The augur's not running. Not a bit.



> Even though its a PIA your going to have to get the covers off and see what is working or not.  I know your trying hard but its sounds like your hesitant to really dig in.



Hesitant to take stuff apart to the degree that I need to order a new gasket to put it back together. Also, want to go in one step at a time since if that's where the fix is, no point going farther



> Just about everything in the stove has a way to be checked out as to whether its working or not.  The control box is the one item that can be hard to pin point.?  When your thermostat calls for heat and the stove turns on what exactly happens?



The exhaust/combustion blower starts. The control box blinks 6 times blue, pauses, blinks 6 times blue again. Not much else. When I put my hand on the augur motor I don't feel any action there.



> Have you poked a tooth pick into the connection for the rubber hose on the augar tube?  Do this carefully and make sure you don't break the tooth pick.  Also take off the rubber hose between the vac switch and the augar tube and make sure it has no fines or blockages in it.  This is a somewhat common place to have trouble because of the fines in the pellets.



Didn't poke with a toothpick. But checked the tube. And as I understand it when I shorted around the pressure switch without improving things, that's proof that the pressure line and switch can't be the problem.


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## whit (Oct 23, 2011)

> We have seen some leave them connected. Power spikes from electric storms can kill components pretty easy. Even with surge suppressors installed. Safe bet to just unplug them.



The computer-grade UPS it was plugged into was turned off for the summer. 



> You only need to see if it turns with power for a few seconds. Use the power strip with a switch to turn it right off. If it just sits there and hums. You have you problem solved. If it turns on its own, Reconnect every thing and re-fire it. Sometimes they may get stuck from sitting. I don't think you need to disconnect anything just a short second or 2 of on time to see if it spins shouldn't dump that much fuel. If you hot wire the auger, That's all that going to get power, Leave the stove unplugged while doing that!
> 
> Or connect a meter and see if it getting power from the controller. No power something else is bad, Power and you have a stuck/dead auger motor.



Putting my hand on the augur motor, I don't feeling it trying to do anything. Unfortunately there are 4 lines going to it, connected by a wiring harness plug with something looking like a capacitor across two of the lines. I'm not sure which to juice or measure - or if it's 120 V at that point.

If the augur motor is stuck, should it at least give a strain against the stuckness? Or does the total lack of any action there indicate either its burned out, or the controller isn't feeding it - in which case guess I'm back to figuring out if it's safe to connect 120 to it, and by which of the four wires connected at the wiring harness plug. I guess the other thing would be to pull the motor off and see if I can power it on the bench. Maybe it becomes more obvious where to apply the power then.


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## whit (Oct 23, 2011)

futureboiler said:
			
		

> did you pull the control board out and reset it?  make sure its unplugged.



There's a reset for the control board aside from the reset button available on the back in normal use? Please tell me more.


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## Bkins (Oct 23, 2011)

Were you able to find the resetable snap disc and if so did it reset?  What are you trying to take apart that might need a gasket?  If your just trying to test a motor you don't need to take it out of the stove.  Just make a lamp cord extention cord and hook the 2 wires up and plug it in.  You will know right quick if the motor works or not.  It has been reported by other forum members that you should hand spin/move the motors and then plug them in when trying to figure no starts out.  Believe it or not your making some progress on figureing out the problem as it is just really a process of elimination.  Was this stove left plugged in over the time it was not in use?  Does your owners manual tell you what the 6 blue blinks indicate on the control box?  

I'm going to back out of this and let somebody that owns your model stove help you out.  They will help you out as you answer their questions.  Don't be afraid to ask questions and tell what has happened.


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## whit (Oct 23, 2011)

Bkins said:
			
		

> Were you able to find the resetable snap disc and if so did it reset? What are you trying to take apart that might need a gasket?



No. According to page 36 of the Santa Fe manual, to get in far enough to replace snap disk #2 requires replacing the combustion blower gasket. And a lot of disassembly to get that far. I'm suspecting if it does have a reset button on it that requires getting that far in to it too.



> If your just trying to test a motor you don't need to take it out of the stove.  Just make a lamp cord extention cord and hook the 2 wires up and plug it in.



Makes sense. If I can be sure it's a 120 V motor and figure out which of the four wires the hot and neutral should connect to. Okay, the neutral should go to the two white wires. Still, that leaves two more, and that odd capacitor across the plug.



> Was this stove left plugged in over the time it was not in use?  Does your owners manual tell you what the 6 blue blinks indicate on the control box?



It was plugged into a computer-grade UPS that was turned off. The 6 blue blinks according to the manual mean that it's been turned on. Doesn't say more than that.

Looks like I need to figure out how to juice the motor, and if the motor does work, it's most likely the control board?


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## jtakeman (Oct 23, 2011)

whit said:
			
		

> > We have seen some leave them connected. Power spikes from electric storms can kill components pretty easy. Even with surge suppressors installed. Safe bet to just unplug them.
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The auger motor has 4 wires going to it and a capacitor? Never seen that before. I'll down load the manual. But there seems to be 3 of them on their site! I'll have to compare!

Yes you should feel strain if its getting power and stuck. But it still can be getting power. Hard to say without checking. Motor could have opened/failed?

Like bkins. I don't own this stove. We have a member named balls of fire I'm hoping he comes by, But you could send him a PM. https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/that/messages/pm/2731/


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## SmokeyTheBear (Oct 23, 2011)

Remember some of the quads have auger motors that have funny habits like running backwards and switching directions.   That capacitor appears to be the hallmark of such things.  Make certain your manuals are for the correct stove.

What two wires can screw up pales compared to 4 plus an additional device.  What ever happened to KISS?


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## jtakeman (Oct 23, 2011)

Did you ever find snap disc 2 with the orange wires? 

And do you have a voltave/multimeter?


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## tjnamtiw (Oct 23, 2011)

Unplug the stove.
Trace the two wires coming from the vacuum switch.  One comes forward toward the control box.  The other one will lead you directly to snap disk #2.  Just stick your hand back there and follow the wire.  That's snap disk #2.  Push in on the small button between the two terminals and see if it clicks.  
Follow the other wire on snap disk #2.  It goes to the motor.  That's where you would put the hot side of your jumper/power cord.
If you have a multi-meter (get one if you don't), put it on resistance, unhook one of the wires on the snap disK and measure resistance across the two terminals.  It should be 0.
There is no reason to disconnect anything that requires a gasket.  Don't know where you read that.
If the snap disk reads 0 ohms, then you could actually connect your power test cord to the line coming from the vacuum switch that leads to the snap disk and connect your other neutral wire to the white wire from the motor.  
At this point, if the motor doesn't turn, THEN it's time to pull out the auger and motor.  It is VERY LIKELY that the auger was not completely emptied last spring and the pellets and fines have swelled up and froze the auger.  NOW you might need a gasket although mine came apart with no problems when I pulled it out.


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## whit (Oct 23, 2011)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

> Remember some of the quads have auger motors that have funny habits like running backwards and switching directions.   That capacitor appears to be the hallmark of such things.  Make certain your manuals are for the correct stove.
> 
> What two wires can screw up pales compared to 4 plus an additional device.  What ever happened to KISS?



Okay, the augur motor works. Putting live current on the white and black pins of the unplugged line starts it. (And also is a significant shock-or-short danger, but I got away with it.)

Does that pretty much mean I'm looking at a control box gone bad, or is there still a possibility that it's snap disc #2 or something else?

Looking more closely, the incoming plug just has three lines - two white on the same plug pin and the black. Then the plug on the motor side has to capacitor over to a red line from the black, possibly to give it an extra jolt to start? No matter. It can start. So the question is why it's not being asked to.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Oct 23, 2011)

Generally if the motor actually works the two things that are in series providing power to the motor is the vacuum switch and a high temperature switch, the vacuum switch normally needs to close and does so when the combustion blower is running, the high temperature switch is normally closed and allows the power to get to the auger.  When the high temperature switch activates it opens preventing power from getting to the auger, this switch comes in two delicious flavors auto reset for those that don't really care and manual reset for those that want to know if in fact the stove is over heating.


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## jtakeman (Oct 23, 2011)

whit said:
			
		

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Looking at the print Power comes from the vacuum switch then it goes to the snap disk 2. From there to the auger. You need to trace the path before you can look at the control box. I'm betting its snap disk 2.

But I would jump the vacuum switch and snap disc 2. See if it works. Then plug back in the vacuum switch and see if it still works. If it does the vac switch is good. and snap disc 2 is at fault. Looking at the parts snap disk 2 is supposed to be auto reseting(not sure on all stoves though) if it isn't there is a red button tj was mentioning. push that and reconnect the snap disc.

Another tip is sometimes you need to tap these discs or heck it could also just be a loose connection! You might be able to put it all back together and away it goes!


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## whit (Oct 23, 2011)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

> Generally if the motor actually works the two things that are in series providing power to the motor is the vacuum switch and a high temperature switch, the vacuum switch normally needs to close and does so when the combustion blower is running, the high temperature switch is normally closed and allows the power to get to the auger.  When the high temperature switch activates it opens preventing power from getting to the auger, this switch comes in two delicious flavors auto reset for those that don't really care and manual reset for those that want to know if in fact the stove is over heating.



Okay, since I've jumped the vacuum switch to no effect the question is how to test the high temperature switch. Would that be the same as the "snap disk #2" that's located where I have to disassemble the stove down as far as removing the combustion blower, which then requires (they say) a new gasket when put back?

If so, I'd love to find a place to temporarily bypass that to prove the concept, before putting in the order for the gasket and snap disk and waiting however long for 'em. 

Oh, and there's also a "snap disk #3", that the manual does say is resettable - probably #2 is not from the picture found in a parts catalog elsewhere. Snap disc #3 is another of those wonderful free-floating parts in Quadra's parts brochure - up from somewhere in the middle of things, but no real indicator where, although they do suggest resetting it. It sounds like if that needed resetting though it would be the same as if the fuse was blown - no action at all. So probably can rule that out.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Oct 23, 2011)

whit said:
			
		

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Sounds like that stove has an extra switch, I don't have the manual.  Find the resettable one follow the colored wires on the diagram.   Most stoves have 2 snap discs.  1 is POF and 2 is high temperature shut down.


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## jtakeman (Oct 23, 2011)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

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Yep 3 switches. #3 is the burn back tj mentioned. It will kill every thing and requires manual reset.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Oct 23, 2011)

And ta da go looking for a flashing yellow light ... page 29 bottom ... idiot thermocouple ...


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## whit (Oct 23, 2011)

j-takeman said:
			
		

> Yep 3 switches. #3 is the burn back tj mentioned. It will kill every thing and requires manual reset.



So by "kill everything" that means the combustion blower wouldn't be running?


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## jtakeman (Oct 23, 2011)

whit said:
			
		

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Yes! It will shut down every thing.


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## whit (Oct 23, 2011)

Hey, wadduya know. Unplugging a whole bunch of stuff to try various jumpers and so on, and then plugging it back to normal and trying one more time (I've been doing a lot of "trying one more time") and the damn thing finally works!

The guys who said "sometimes it just starts working after you bang on it for a bit" take the grand prize. But thank you all. I've learned a lot. Whether this was a tarnished connector or something more mechanical that got some sense inadvertently knocked into it I can't say. But persistently screwing around did _something_. And without the encouragement of all here I'm sure I would have given up too soon.


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## jtakeman (Oct 23, 2011)

Woohoo, We need beer now! Ahhh I guess your buying too! :cheese:

Glad its going and your now more comfy with you stove. Got to give you credit for not walking away. Frustrating=yes, Easy=no, But don't you feel good now! ;-)


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## heat seeker (Oct 23, 2011)

Great! Now you can enjoy your stove even more, since you understand its inner workings better. Way to stay with it, and not let that hoss throw you!


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## sante fe (Oct 23, 2011)

Did you ever find snap disc #2 ? Good job staying with. The Santa Fe for the most part is reliable.


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## tjnamtiw (Oct 24, 2011)

After looking at the free standing Sante Fe manual, I can see that they DID make it difficult to replace snap disk #2.  Must have been Chevy truck engineers working on the side!  If you wanted to check to see if it's closed as it should be, put an ohm meter lead on the power lead going to your auger motor.  Put the other lead on the wire coming from your vacuum switch (the one that is NOT coming back to your control box). Disconnect that wire from the vacuum switch so you are not measuring the other way around the circuit.   Look at your schematic in your manual to see what I mean.

Glad you got it going but scared that there's still a gremlin in there.


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## jtakeman (Oct 24, 2011)

tjnamtiw said:
			
		

> Glad you got it going but scared that there's still a gremlin in there.



Gremlins?  :ahhh:


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## tjnamtiw (Oct 24, 2011)

Nasty little buggers!   %-P


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## SmokeyTheBear (Oct 24, 2011)

Someone both fed and watered this one after midnight.


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## tjnamtiw (Oct 24, 2011)

whit said:
			
		

> Okay, since I've jumped the vacuum switch to no effect the question is how to test the high temperature switch. Would that be the same as the "snap disk #2" that's located where I have to disassemble the stove down as far as removing the combustion blower, which then requires (they say) a new gasket when put back?
> 
> Might as well order a couple of gaskets anyway since you will be pulling that blower at the end of the season to clean it.
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Yep, the manual says #2 resets itself...??? I'm not sure I would want that.  I'd rather know that I had an overfire problem.  I'm glad you called my attention to that.  I have to check mine and perhaps change it out with one with a manual reset


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## Bkins (Oct 24, 2011)

Ya. the gremlins are out just a hare early for Halloween.  Probably grew his gemlin in the stoves time off.  Your fault that you put it away and gave it a place to grow. LOL


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## tjnamtiw (Oct 24, 2011)

I think the father of the gremlins is 'Murphy'.
The snap disk #2 on my Castile is a manual reset although the owner's manual says it resets itself.............  I'm running the Sante Fe so I think it just might be prudent to NOT stick my hand back there to check.   ;-P


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## jtakeman (Oct 24, 2011)

gremlins will get cha!  :bug:


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