# Zero clearance pellet stove in new construction



## ort5 (Jan 3, 2013)

Hello all,

I recently signed the papers on a new home to be built in the greater Boston MA area.   The home will have a natural gas connection from the street and the primary forced hot air furnace will burn that.   The home plans also call for a direct vent NG fireplace in the living room. 

I'm happy about the NG primary heat and may be satisfied with the proposed fireplace as well.   It's certainly easy, efficient and zero maintenance.   That said, I've always wanted a pellet stove and now is the time for me to make this sort of decision. 

What are the relative pros and cons in your opinion?   I previously had a wood burning fireplace insert in my last home which I liked very much.  I just didn't like messing with wet wood and the constant feeding of the fire.    Also my wife never did feel completely comfortable starting and tending the fire.   I like the idea of using pellets as an alternative fuel source when/if NG prices go up and I generally like the idea of a biomass heater for ecological reasons.

Which models should I consider?   The home will be a 2000ft^2 colonial with an open floor plan on the first level.   Can a zero clearance pellet stove fit in the same space a zero clearance NG fireplace would normally occupy?  Will it cost me significantly more to purchase and operate?

I appreciate your thoughts.
Dave


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## briansol (Jan 3, 2013)

A 0 clearance will be a PITA to clean.  If you do get one, make sure it has a rail kit that let's it slide out with ease.  And some kind of easy disconnect exhaust set up.


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## Harvey Schneider (Jan 3, 2013)

A zero clearance insert sounds like what you want. I had a Mt Vernon AE installed last year and I am quite pleased with it's performance. My first floor is approximately 1500 sq ft and the Mt Vernon can easily cope with the coldest of days. Today it was 9 degrees in the morning and the pellet consumption was only about 20 - 25% of the stove's capacity. I am basing that on the advertised BTU capacity and the pellet consumption rate assuming that pellets are approximately 8500 BTU/#.
Pellet stoves do require some maintenance such as weekly cleanings and seasonal cleanings, and yes you do have to move 40# bags of pellets to the stove (for me avg 1/day, peak 2/day).
The pellet stove makes sense to me on both and economic and an ecological point of view.


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## Mr. Spock (Jan 3, 2013)

One point that may be a deal breaker for some is that pellet stoves make some noise. This may or may not present an issue depending on the install location relative to room functions. My XXV is located right next to the TV so when it's full burn the Volume needs to go up bit. This doesn't bother me or the g/f but some find the operational decibel's very irritating. Personally I find it relaxing.


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## Harvey Schneider (Jan 3, 2013)

Mr. Spock said:


> One point that may be a deal breaker for some is that pellet stoves make some noise. This may or may not present an issue depending on the install location relative to room functions. My XXV is located right next to the TV so when it's full burn the Volume needs to go up bit. This doesn't bother me or the g/f but some find the operational decibel's very irritating. Personally I find it relaxing.


The Mt Vernon AE has a quiet mode for situations where noise is an issue. My insert is 20 feet from my TV and I run it at full speed. It is quieter than a typical fan on low speed. Still some people are more sensitive to extraneous noises than I am.


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## Tim Linden (Jan 3, 2013)

Pellet stoves will be a bit more work..  Less than wood stoves but more than NG. You have to feed it and clean it. But the wife can turn it on by turning a knob (at least if it's a Harman, guessing others have ignitors too). Just tell her to not use the vacuum to clean it (my dad just told me my step mom did on hot ashes using the reg house vac..). Price wise, I saw somewhere pellets were slightly less than NG. I moved from oil so the difference is bigger but still worth it for how great they heat.


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## Mr. Spock (Jan 3, 2013)

Exactly the point I was trying to make. Folks have different thresholds.By no means do I mean the XXV is noisy it too has a quiet mode where you can turn off the convection fan for radiant heat only (or adjust the fan to any speed you want). But if you are trying to get the heat out in a hurry it moves some air. If it's maintaining temp I find the unit to be very quiet.  Actually he XXV is maintaining temp now and I can barely hear it compared to the tv and the tv volume is low. Again mileage may vary!


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## sticks (Jan 3, 2013)

IMHO the ecological reasons dont hold up. If they dont use it for pellets they can use for MDF furniture or OSB . We had a pellet mill close to us about 15 to 20 years ago. The machine broke down and repair was expensive so they sold the raw material for 10 dollars less a ton and did nothing to it. So it does not go to waste


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## Mr. Spock (Jan 3, 2013)

oldmountvernon said:


> Noise? what noise? my pellet stove is silent



Funny! Made me laugh.


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## Mr. Spock (Jan 3, 2013)

oldmountvernon said:


> its true, go check one out unless your running it full tilt you cant hear them


I'll take your word for it. I honestly thought you were making a joke.


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## Pelleting In NJ (Jan 3, 2013)

Check out the Quad Edge60 zero clearance pellet fireplace. They are the same guts as the Mt Vernon, and the entire chassis rolls out for easy cleaning. Check around at Quad dealers, they are on clearance, about $2000 off the original $5000 price.


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## Harvey Schneider (Jan 3, 2013)

sticks said:


> IMHO the ecological reasons dont hold up. If they dont use it for pellets they can use for MDF furniture or OSB .


You missed the point. I am no longer burning fossil fuels so I am no longer releasing CO2 into the environment.


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## DexterDay (Jan 3, 2013)

One of the easiest Z/C to work on would be the Edge 60 (Mt. Vernon but FANCY) and on tracks! 

Slides right out. 60,000 BTU and Beautiful. 

Quadrafire Edge 60. Look it up..


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## flynfrfun (Jan 3, 2013)

I removed my NG insert and replaced it with my Enviro M55 insert. Pellet stoves are WAY more work than a NG insert because there is essentially NO work involved with the NG insert. However, like you I like having diverse heating fuel options for the home if one or the other skyrocket. Basically, the pellet stove will cost more per BTU than NG, but can save you $ anyways and I'll explain why. I let my NG furnace maintain 65F for the house while we are gone to work and at night (this costs me about $50/month in NG, 2000sf house). When we get home from work and on the weekends, the pellet stove heats our bottom floor living area to about 80F (costs about $100/month in pellets). Now, if I were to turn the NG furnace up to 80 we would be spending way more because it would take a lot of NG to heat the whole house up to that temp. So, for $150/month we are nice and toasty.  Prior to the pellet stove, we spent about $200 in the coldest month and that was only turning the furnace up to 74F when we got home (wife still felt cold).  Also, my NG furnace would not even get the house to 80 from the time I got home from work to the time we go to bed.  If I didn't care about diverse fuel sources, I'd definitely go with a NG insert because they put out lots of heat too.


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## ort5 (Jan 4, 2013)

Thanks for the great replies, they're helpful. 

I certainly expect the pellet stove to be more work than the NG fireplace, but I'm OK with that.   Some primal part of me actually LIKES the "man make fire" process, so the pellet stove caters to that somewhat better than NG.  

I had not considered the difficulties presented when cleaning a ZC pellet stove, so a model that has rails is at the top of my list.  I'll check out the Quad you've suggested and see if I can find others.  

The challenge may be convincing my builder to make the substitution for me.  I suppose I could alternatively add a free standing pellet stove elsewhere in the house.   It just makes less sense than utilizing the space in the designated "hearth" area.


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## Don2222 (Jan 4, 2013)

ort5 said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I recently signed the papers on a new home to be built in the greater Boston MA area. The home will have a natural gas connection from the street and the primary forced hot air furnace will burn that. The home plans also call for a direct vent NG fireplace in the living room.
> 
> ...


 
I would go with a Harman Accentra with a rail kit. The quick disconnect on the exhaust makes it one of the easiest inserts to pull out for service. Also the quality and looks makes it one of the best! The heat it throws out is superb!


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## ort5 (Jan 4, 2013)

I love the Accentra, but would it work in a ZC installation?


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## Chain (Jan 4, 2013)

Since the house isn't built yet and you mentioned you could have your contractor design and build for a free standing stove, I'd go that route and completely get away from an insert.  I think free standing stoves are just easier to clean and maintain.  They also will radiate more heat naturally into your living area as compared with an insert.  One thing to keep in mind, however, is that the exhaust set-up needs to be accommodated in your design and build.  I would recommend a straight up through your roof set-up as it will vent better should you lose power.  And since you haven't built the home, a good contractor can easily accommodate the installation of a nice hearth area with vertical venting up through the roof system.  The other option is to vent directly out of the wall horizontally and then up vertically along the outside wall.  This avoids the entire roof design issue but it also doesn't vent as naturally in most cases should you lose power.


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## briansol (Jan 4, 2013)

Agreed.
As an insert owner, I'd never do it again.  I wish i went free-standing and kept my fireplace for a wood fire when th epower goes out, and ease of cleaning.


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## Harvey Schneider (Jan 4, 2013)

ort5 said:


> I had not considered the difficulties presented when cleaning a ZC pellet stove, so a model that has rails is at the top of my list. I'll check out the Quad you've suggested and see if I can find others.


I am 66 and I have an insert that is not on rails. Cleaning it just isn't that difficult. Yes it is a little harder to get at the screws to loosen the blower motors, but not insanely difficult. The flue connector is held by four screws and although a quick connect is a nice idea, for the once a year I have to deal with, I wouldn't spend the extra to add it to the stove.
I don't find any reason to remove the stove entirely from its normal operating position, but if I did, it can slide on its base with little difficulty. Mine is sitting on a stone hearth and it doesn't take much muscle to move it.
Maybe my attitude is influenced by that fact that my insert hasn't needed much in the way of maintenance.


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## flynfrfun (Jan 5, 2013)

There are 2 pellet stoves that slide/roll out on wheels: Harman Accentra and Enviro M55 Cast. Both are great stoves. The Accentra has a better engineered "docking station" than the Enviro because Harman made both the exhaust and the OAK connect automatically. The M55 only connects the exhaust automatically. In my case, connecting the OAK is easy because my insert is in a pre-fab or "doghouse" built onto the side of the house. I can reach thru the OAK hole in the exterior of the house and pull it thru. The M55 inputs 55,000 BTU vs the 40,000 of the Accentra. I also think the M55 is probably easier to work on since you have to tip the Accentra up to get to the bottom mounted convection blower for cleaning and these stoves are 300+lbs!

Rolling my stove out is about a 10 minute job (including setting up the rails) and is super easy as the rollers are ball bearings. I can roll it out with one finger, it's that easy! The nice thing about that is once out you can get all the way around it without having to remove any body pieces etc. When you hear people talking about how difficult inserts are to work on, they are probably talking about inserts that don't roll out on wheels. I feel that once rolled out, my stove is easier to work on than a freestanding corner unit. The two adjacent walls keep you from getting to the back of the stove very easily IMHO.


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## rickwai (Jan 5, 2013)

ort5 said:


> I love the Accentra, but would it work in a ZC installation?


Yes it will. You will need theHarman zero clearance box for the install. Very well made and easy to install.  Accentra is easy to service. Best thing is you dont have to mess w/ exhaust when servicing. Some inserts you have to be careful not to knock exhaust loose.


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## FyreBug (Jan 5, 2013)

If it's a new construction, why not a pellet furnace?


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## ort5 (Jan 7, 2013)

I'm not ready to put all my eggs in the pellet basket I guess.  Having never owned any pellet burning appliance, I'd rather start with a space heater and then work my way up to a central heater if I see fit. 

I also think the convenience of NG can't be beat and the cost is much lower than the oil I am coming from.


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## kinsmanstoves (Jan 7, 2013)

ort5 said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I recently signed the papers on a new home to be built in the greater Boston MA area. The home will have a natural gas connection from the street and the primary forced hot air furnace will burn that. The home plans also call for a direct vent NG fireplace in the living room.
> 
> ...


 
A direct vent natural gas unit is almost no maintenance.  Some do throw some heat but they are not that efficient since there is almost no restriction on the exhaust venting.  You will get more btu from the NG by using the furnace than the fireplace.  Current cost of NG in this area is very cheap compared to oil and older electric furnaces.  The fire place does give you flame to look at.  Make sure it is a quality unit and as for pulling the unit out that is not needed.

As for pellet, you will get more usable BTU but more mess.

Eric


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## derryank (Mar 5, 2015)

I'd love to hear what you decided to do, as we find ourselves in the exact same position.... Insert/pellets/stand alone or a gas insert. Thanks


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 5, 2015)

Whatever they did, they did it a while ago, like 2 years ago.


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## derryank (Mar 5, 2015)

Lol....I know. A long shot...but a shot nonetheless.

Its been fun reading these forums/opinions on the what and why of pellet stove installations. I'm planning to go see a few dealers and their(biased  opinions this weekend.


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 5, 2015)

I will say, if you have NG, forget pellets entirely.


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## derryank (Mar 5, 2015)

We do Sidecar....why do you strongly feel this way? I'm very open minded, though I was veering toward pellet because of the potential of (3) heating options. NG(forced hot air), Wood and pellet. As I say though, this is only a novice opinion. Thanks for the discussion by the way.


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 5, 2015)

Simply because per BTU realized versus cost per BTU, NG beats the hell out of pellets, always has and always will plus, NG is basically maintenance free and a pellet unit has to be cleaned regularly and there is the mechanical side that also needs to be maintained.

If you want a pellet stove for an ambience / cozy standpoint and not as a mandatory heat source, by all means but it will never compete with NG.

I came close with my propane this year to equalizing on a pellet/corn unit, closer than I've ever come in 30 odd years.


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 5, 2015)

If I was 30 years younger, I'd install a geo-thermal unit, either vertical or horizontal HX and kick the pellet stove out in the yard but the ROI is too long for this old fart


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## BrotherBart (Mar 5, 2015)

SidecarFlip said:


> If I was 30 years younger, I'd install a geo-thermal unit, either vertical or horizontal HX and kick the pellet stove out in the yard but the ROI is too long for this old fart



Ditto.


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## derryank (Mar 5, 2015)

Now there's something I was only browsing a few days ago. Just began researching this method (Geo) on Tuesday. I've a lot of catching up to do....reading and age.. ha ha. Hopefully you get the humor. 

The wife's getting her dream kitchen, and i'm getting the responsibility of keeping my family warm and cool during the fluctuating NE seasons. The geothermal energy options I've read so far are very interesting... and affordable? I think??


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 5, 2015)

derryank said:


> Now there's something I was only browsing a few days ago. Just began researching this method (Geo) on Tuesday. I've a lot of catching up to do....reading and age.. ha ha. Hopefully you get the humor.
> 
> The wife's getting her dream kitchen, and i'm getting the responsibility of keeping my family warm and cool during the fluctuating NE seasons. The geothermal energy options I've read so far are very interesting... and affordable? I think??


 
If you are in your 40's go for it.  It's (Geothermal) will be the most expensive install but it heats and cools in one unit.  Just have it sized professionally by an accredited professional that takes into account things like window area and door sizes.  There are quite a few schlock people in the business so go on a good referral and check out the previous work.

Geo is the only way to go for the long run and can be wet (in a pond) or dry vertical (drilled wells) or horizontal (linear drilling).  Linear below 5 feet.

My BIL has a 4 ton Carrier plumbed into his pond.  He averages less than 100 bucks a month year around for heat, air conditioning and hot water in a 3500 square foot home in Northern Illinois.


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## derryank (Mar 5, 2015)

Mid-thirties Sidecar. I've just been watching a few videos on YouTube about the GeoThermal heat exchange. Definitely interested in this concept. My theory is, would you hire an electrician to build you a mantle piece? Of course not....hire a professional. 

We're still in the design aspect of the house, so this is a conversation that I should definitely have with a professional. So much for that pellet stove insert eh??


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## Bioburner (Mar 5, 2015)

Look at the newer insulation types. ICF is being used around here and brings out the electric companies thinking someone is tampering with the meters as the homes use so little.


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 5, 2015)

derryank said:


> Mid-thirties Sidecar. I've just been watching a few videos on YouTube about the GeoThermal heat exchange. Definitely interested in this concept. My theory is, would you hire an electrician to build you a mantle piece? Of course not....hire a professional.
> 
> We're still in the design aspect of the house, so this is a conversation that I should definitely have with a professional. So much for that pellet stove insert eh??


 
I'm old enought to be your dad.  So, son, get Geothermal and forget about a pellet stove.


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## derryank (Mar 6, 2015)

Ha ha ha. That's awesome


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## Harvey Schneider (Mar 6, 2015)

derryank said:


> hire a professional.


A Professional is just somebody who has learned how to hide his mistakes. 
Actually the world is full of amateurs masquerading as professionals.


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## derryank (Mar 6, 2015)

Wonderful.... What if they are now licensed having learned from there mistakes? Fun


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## mik_kane (Mar 6, 2015)

SidecarFlip said:


> I will say, if you have NG, forget pellets entirely.



AGREE!!
If you have NG why bother with pellets? If I had NG my stove would be on CL and I would go with hot water base board heating. Keeps the house at an even heat and you can always zone your house to different temps.

Also don't skimp on the insulation.


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## Bioburner (Mar 6, 2015)

derryank said:


> Wonderful.... What if they are now licensed having learned from there mistakes? Fun


Licensing is sometimes a matter of taking a multi question test. I have a pesticide applicators license that one gets by passing a 50 question test and of course giving up $100.


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## Harvey Schneider (Mar 6, 2015)

mik_kane said:


> why bother with pellets


There is always the ecological impact to consider. Renewable resources have almost no impact on carbon footprint. 
Sometimes the right thing to do isn't the most convenient or the most cost effective.
Just my opinion. You are welcome to your own.


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 6, 2015)

Bioburner said:


> Licensing is sometimes a matter of taking a multi question test. I have a pesticide applicators license that one gets by passing a 50 question test and of course giving up $100.


 
I have one as well (Michigan).  I think it's more about the fee, than the test here.  A 5 year old could pass the test (multiple guess...).  They call ours a pesticide/herbicide applicators permit.

Basically lets you purchase and apply chemicals you used to buy over the counter that you cannot now because the gummit regulates them dor the good of the people....lol


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 6, 2015)

Harvey Schneider said:


> A Professional is just somebody who has learned how to hide his mistakes.
> Actually the world is full of amateurs masquerading as professionals.


 
From what I see, there are quite a few that fall in the catergory on this site........  just say'in.


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## Bioburner (Mar 6, 2015)

Its basically a 4th grade reading and simple math test. Mine is up this year and thinking of giving it up as the only thing I use now is 2-4D and malathion.


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## tjnamtiw (Mar 6, 2015)

Harvey Schneider said:


> You missed the point. I am no longer burning fossil fuels so I am no longer releasing CO2 into the environment.


YOU aren't but the people making the pellets are.  Diesel engines to run the harvesting equipment release emissions.  Diesel trucks to carry the wood to the processor release more.  Diesels or electric motors to run the size reduction equipement account for more.  Electricity to run all the motors in the pelletizing process comes from somewhere that emits pollution.  Burning of some kind of fuel to dry the pellets is releasing CO2.  The diesel trucks to drive them to the distributor are.  The fork trucks unloading, storing, and loading them are.  The truck bringing them to your house are.  The electricity to run your stove comes from somewhere.  
Ecological reasons fall far short and sure as heck won't save the world one iota.  It's a fool's quest at best.

To the OP, get the NG fireplace and avoid all the hassles that show up here every day.


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## Bioburner (Mar 6, 2015)

tjnamtiw said:


> To the OP, get the NG fireplace and avoid all the hassles that show up here every day.


x2


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## derryank (Mar 6, 2015)

Thanks for the wonderful opinions and discussion. It seems that quite a few have had their stoves, which have not been NG and are recommending that I purchase/install the NG option. Very interesting, considering I came on here to hear feedback from those who have lived it.....what to do...


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## tjnamtiw (Mar 6, 2015)

derryank said:


> Thanks for the wonderful opinions and discussion. It seems that quite a few have had their stoves, which have not been NG and are recommending that I purchase/install the NG option. Very interesting, considering I came on here to hear feedback from those who have lived it.....what to do...


Most of those here with pellet stoves don't have access to NG or we would throw these beasts out the back door.  If you like the look of a wood fire, get a 50" flat screen and run a looped video of a fire on it.


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## Bioburner (Mar 6, 2015)

I have a very nice Propain heater and if the price of gas was cheaper I would be using it exclusively. As it is its used as backup and for ambiance.


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 6, 2015)

Like a plug in hybrid.  People conveniently forget that the electricity still comes from (majority of it) from the burning of coal at a power station thats out of sight (and mind), so it's 'green' and that is not oly short sighted, it's bs too.


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## tjnamtiw (Mar 6, 2015)

I find it kind of ironic that we are worrying about producing CO2 so we burn trees that NEED CO2 to grow!  
By the way, NG produces 117 pounds of CO2 while the subbituminous coal used in power plants produces 214 pound per million btu's.  So NG is not the great elixir we all think.


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 6, 2015)

tjnamtiw said:


> I find it kind of ironic that we are worrying about producing CO2 so we burn trees that NEED CO2 to grow!
> By the way, NG produces 117 pounds of CO2 while the subbituminous coal used in power plants produces 214 pound per million btu's.  So NG is not the great elixir we all think.


 
No, but it's cheap and when something is cheap, it makes it more green........  Jusr ask anybody.....


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## derryank (Mar 6, 2015)

To the OP, get the NG fireplace and avoid all the hassles that show up here every day.


This is the most common response.


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## derryank (Mar 6, 2015)

Ha ha ha...I'm headed out to look around tomorrow.... Should I be concerned with the square footage(600feet) of the room I'm looking to heat? 

Any particular recommendations on a Gas stove?


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 6, 2015)

tjnamtiw said:


> If you like the look of a wood fire, get a 50" flat screen and run a looped video of a fire on it


 
Thats the way to go with a 90% or better condensing NG furnace in the basement and or Geothermal.


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## the cug (Mar 8, 2015)

II agree with sidecar. a pellet stove is great for a secondary heat if u have as your primary heat being propane,electric or oil. for myself, I purchased a used pellet stove for my camp (cottage) and took out the wood stove. no mess no waking up to cold etc. the one thing is u have to learn about the stove and know how to fix it. also insulation is a big factor. my camp is partially insulated and my stove has a hard time heating it. its only 18 feet x 46 feet, open concept. when im done insulating the ceiling and floor there will be a huge difference.


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## bdud (Mar 8, 2015)

I would at least have a chimney installed that you could use with a wood or pellet stove. You said you liked the wood stove you had in a previous house and a NG stove to me, just looks false, you might not like it in the long run. Having a NG furnace in your instance is the smart choice and would handle the bulk of your heating needs. However, having a pellet stove as just a backup and getting the nice flames is a great feature. Just timing it to come on at set times or when you just want to sit infront of it, will minimize the times you have to add pellets or clean it. I just use my pellet insert maybe 3 hours a day, I add a bucket of pellets every other day and clean it, takes 20 mins, maybe every other month. 
Have a gas line run into the fireplace so you can go to NG if you want at some point.


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## derryank (Mar 8, 2015)

That's a pissah idea. Run a gas line in case I don't like the pellet stove. Why on earth I didn't think of that, I've no idea.


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## derryank (Mar 8, 2015)

Sidecar... The geothermal approach will not work in my location due to ledge and not enough real estate. I am considering icynene insulation in addition to the NG forced hot air furnace.


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