# Building my Seton boiler



## Jesse-M (Feb 17, 2013)

I gathered all my build pics and put them together here........
Thought maybe someone would be interested or maybe inspired...


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## Downeast Farmer (Feb 17, 2013)

Now I've got a case of welder envy.  Great job.  Visit Maine; bring your tools.


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## Pat53 (Feb 17, 2013)

Wow, awesome job Jesse, reminds me a lot of when I built mine. Wish I had taken pics. What size did you build? Looks like the 130? Looks like the air intakes are 3" pipe?

Also, did you fill in around the air intakes where they enter the firebox?
Did you fill the feed door in with refractory also?
Why do you only have 1" plumbing on yours rather than 1 1/4"?

When I set mine in place I put it on a 1/2" steel plate on top of cinder blocks so it sits up about 9" off the floor, makes it a lot easier on the back when I load it with big chunks of wood.

Pat


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## tigermaple (Feb 19, 2013)

Take's sweet, I'll take two.


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## Jesse-M (Feb 21, 2013)

Pat53 said:


> Wow, awesome job Jesse, reminds me a lot of when I built mine. Wish I had taken pics. What size did you build? Looks like the 130? Looks like the air intakes are 3" pipe?
> 
> Also, did you fill in around the air intakes where they enter the firebox?
> Did you fill the feed door in with refractory also?
> ...


 
I would have liked to see your build pics....... would be interesting to see how yours went together. I did model mine after the rough measurements I got from the 130. The intakes are 2" and i filled in around them with high temp. mortar. The door is filled with the same refractory block as the fire box. I ran 1" pex ( so much easier to find, and less expensive) so didnt see the need to go bigger with the in and out on the pressure vessel. My load door is waist high and 16" tall so it works out great for comfort. Thanks for the compliments....... I still have a group of pictures I want to put together on how and why I changed the exposed insulation situation.

Downeast Farmer.....Most of the pretty welds were done by the buddy of mine in the pics......sometimes mine turn out that way, sometimes not...lol


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## muleman51 (Feb 24, 2013)

Jesse-M said:


> I would have liked to see your build pics....... would be interesting to see how yours went together. I did model mine after the rough measurements I got from the 130. The intakes are 2" and i filled in around them with high temp. mortar. The door is filled with the same refractory block as the fire box. I ran 1" pex ( so much easier to find, and less expensive) so didnt see the need to go bigger with the in and out on the pressure vessel. My load door is waist high and 16" tall so it works out great for comfort. Thanks for the compliments....... I still have a group of pictures I want to put together on how and why I changed the exposed insulation situation.
> 
> Downeast Farmer.....Most of the pretty welds were done by the buddy of mine in the pics......sometimes mine turn out that way, sometimes not...lol


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## muleman51 (Feb 24, 2013)

Great looking job. I sure wish they had been built like that in the first place maybe mine wouldn't be sitting in the middle of my yard waiting for the scrapper.  Jim


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## Jesse-M (Mar 13, 2013)

You should rebuild it....... Better, faster, stronger.........lol


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## 456wood (Mar 17, 2013)

Very impressive! Thanks for posting


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## BoilerMan (Mar 17, 2013)

Why the SS sleeves on the supply and return?  I've always wondered why Fred didn't use the inner skins and exposed the insulation directly the the fire.

BTW, I like your draft inducer!

TS


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## Jesse-M (Mar 18, 2013)

Taylor Sutherland said:


> Why the SS sleeves on the supply and return? I've always wondered why Fred didn't use the inner skins and exposed the insulation directly the the fire.
> 
> BTW, I like your draft inducer!
> 
> TS


I had a problem with corrosion real bad where they passed thru the insulation and outer skin.............that was my fix


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## Vern (Apr 7, 2013)

Building one may be the way to go.  I know Fred Seton very well and after being burned by him I did some research on him only to find he is a narcissist.  He will say anything and claim to be a professional in the field. He has no college education very little hands on experience but he sure does know how to sell.  He had me building manifolds for 4 months last summer.  He had no idea how to put them together.  He had to have an old employee who used to make them show me because he forgot.   He has no problem lying if he can see a profit in it and will talk highly of God to make you feel non threatened.  His stoves and boilers work pretty good.  The maintenance on his boilers(including the one at his house if he were honest with you)  seems to be hundreds if not thousands of dollars a year especially if you loose your anti-freeze in the leak.  I want to warn all those who are being deceived by Fred Seton for your time or money.   I spent a lot of time with Fred and talked to several past business partners before finding he is a con man. He was only using me and others around him to get what he wants.  He had these great plans for a turbine for his boiler and claimed God had given him the design.  He later showed me a couple of different companies that had a design he thought we should copy and sell on his boiler.  He said he was going to write a letter to all the people he has sold a stove, boiler, manifold, or design to in the past and see if he could get them to invest.  He is getting to the end of his life so if you invest money don't plan on getting it back.  He lives in Yak Montana and will say anything to get you to go there and work for him or invest your money with him.  I wish someone would have told the truth about Fred Seton in a forum before he got me.


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## Pat53 (Apr 7, 2013)

Well, I also talked with Fred several times before I actually built a Seton. The way you described him is EXACTLY the impression I got from him. I definitely did NOT do my homework well enough before deciding on a boiler. Altho I am satisfied with the performance of the Seton, there are many other true gasification boilers on the market that will outperform the Seton hands down. Fred's biggest lie, in my opinion, is that the unit will NEVER develop creosote because it burns so hot. That is a complete lie. And cleaning these beasts is a PIA, as anyone who owns them will tell you. According to Fred, the best way to operate them is with GREEN rounds, and that the longer they smolder the more efficiently it will run  I kid you not, that's what he told me. I basically told him he was nuts, and that in my opinion the best way to run them was full out , with storage to MINIMIZE idling. I was having terrible creosote buildup in mine before I added storage, now its not bad, but I still take the back panel off once a winter and clean the vertical tubes. He disagreed but thought storage was OK. I can assure you, burning big wet rounds in these things will result in a completely plugged HX in short order.

Sorry to hear of your ordeal with Fred. Is there any way you could sue him for what he stole from you?

Pat


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## Vern (Apr 7, 2013)

Hey Pat thanks for the prompt reply. Sorry you experienced some of the Seton Myths.  You would never think a 70 year old man in a wheelchair who comes across so charming would be out to take advantage of people. I found out that he didn't have a legal business at the time it was all personal checks or cash from customers to avoid taxes and avoid legal obligations.  It would be more of a hassle than it is worth for me to sue, I would rather just share the truth about Fred Seton on reviews and forums because I know he plans on getting others to invest in him. Thank you for your help.


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## Pat53 (Apr 8, 2013)

I remember him talking about the turbine, but he never asked me if I wanted to invest in it, but that was about 4 years ago. Exposing people like Fred is always good. Unfortunately, the world is filled with "Fred's" and a lot of people end up losing a lot of money, sometimes everything, to con men and scam artists. I have no idea what kind of losses you incurred, but I know I would do everything possible to have him prosecuted if he stole from you. If nothing else, alert the proper authorities to what he is up to. Sounds like you have quite a bit on him?

take care, Pat


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## Jesse-M (Apr 9, 2013)

Vern said:


> Building one may be the way to go.  I know Fred Seton very well and after being burned by him I did some research on him only to find he is a narcissist.



Interesting...... Never dealt with him at all, I just liked the design..... How did he burn you, didn't pay you for your work?


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## Vern (Apr 10, 2013)

THERE'S A SUCKER BORN EVERYDAY!
Fred Seton's business includes: wood stoves, wood boilers, heating manifolds, design work, accounting, and much work around his cabin on the river as he spends much of his time in a wheelchair.   After months of getting to know Fred while he was vacationing in AZ, he wanted me to learn the manifolds.   Now if you know Fred you know he comes across as an old, cripple, harmless man, who is really close to God, and God just wants him to better mankind with his gifts!  He said he would invest the money and knowledge and get me started then when I paid him back he would hand it over to me and we would both benefit.  I could also help him and his wife at the time, Carol, around the cabin on a river in the mountains. He can handle the designs and carol did the accounting but that is about it.  Jimmy(the best welder/worker ever) handles the wood stoves and wood boilers singlehandedly. Jimmy understands and knows the stoves and boilers way better than Fred ever will.  He is confined to Fred's design but knows of better ones.  Yes I agree the stoves and boilers are great at holding heat and burning hot.  I honestly believe the stoves are great although Jimmy has a little better design.  There are common maintenance issues with the boilers.    When I was up there we spent hundreds on a couple of new thermostats and much more on antifreeze in one explosive incident and another time the draft got stuck open and it blew again.  Basically the amount of money we put in the boiler in a month would have paid an entire electric winters electric bill.  He had me plant a huge garden that I took care of, I made several upgrades to the cabin.  Worked my butt off six days a week for business ownership thinking Fred is a good man and he is looking to better society.  I was making good money before I went to work for Fred as a part business owner I was bringing in $3-4K a month and Fred knew this.  I left the business with my business partner because Fred convinced me this had way more potential.   Everything was going pretty well a couple of months in we were making serious headway.  I was learning the business and paying Fred back quickly.  He would always ask what I was going to do When I didn't owe him anything and I had all this money?  So after 4 months of being up there and 3 months of running the business I had paid Fred back just over $20,000, what he had invested in me, while maintaining all the upkeep on the house.  When it came time for me to take over Fred started questioning whether I wanted to do it or if I could do it.  I knew what he was getting at so I asked him if after all I have done for him and following through whole heartedly on my end of the deal are you backing out on your word now?  He looked me in the eyes and said F!@# You! I'm going back on my word.  So I then asked him what we should do with the 10K we had in inventory that when assembled would be around $20-25K?  We both knew I had paid him back for all those materials.  He said that's mine paid for with my money tracked to my card, get off my property!  So I packed up and left.  I then started investigating Fred and his work over the years.  I talked to someone who had worked for him for an entire year under a very similar agreement.  Fred was letting him take over the stoves and boilers.  When it came time for Fred to hand it over Fred pulled the same exact move on him.  Larry was using his own credit card to buy all the materials by then so at least he was able to take the materials he paid for.  Fred always claims Larry stole $10-40K depending on the day.  Yeah that's another Seton Lie.   Fred had supposedly sold his boiler company to an engineering firm years ago Bethel Engineering.  I found that they made several modifications to the boiler, before realizing its no longer worth it. As you can see from reviews online there doesn't seem to be any professional in the radiant floor industry agreeing with his design work.  Fred is a hell of a salesman but ultimately a joke. He stumbled across a couple of youtube videos and figured out how to have someone build it and he will sell it.  I didn't have a written contract, no salary/income, nothing to take him to court with.  So yeah I was the sucker!  I recommend if you are going to do any sort of business with Fred make sure you have a written contract. When buying one of his products make sure you have written proof of his claims and make sure he has insurance to back it.


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## mikefrommaine (Apr 10, 2013)

Vern said:


> THERE'S A SUCKER BORN EVERYDAY!
> Fred Seton's business includes: wood stoves, wood boilers, heating manifolds, design work, accounting, and much work around his cabin on the river as he spends much of his time in a wheelchair. After months of getting to know Fred while he was vacationing in AZ, he wanted me to learn the manifolds. Now if you know Fred you know he comes across as an old, cripple, harmless man, who is really close to God, and God just wants him to better mankind with his gifts! He said he would invest the money and knowledge and get me started then when I paid him back he would hand it over to me and we would both benefit. I could also help him and his wife at the time, Carol, around the cabin on a river in the mountains. He can handle the designs and carol did the accounting but that is about it. Jimmy(the best welder/worker ever) handles the wood stoves and wood boilers singlehandedly. Jimmy understands and knows the stoves and boilers way better than Fred ever will. He is confined to Fred's design but knows of better ones. Yes I agree the stoves and boilers are great at holding heat and burning hot. I honestly believe the stoves are great although Jimmy has a little better design. There are common maintenance issues with the boilers. When I was up there we spent hundreds on a couple of new thermostats and much more on antifreeze in one explosive incident and another time the draft got stuck open and it blew again. Basically the amount of money we put in the boiler in a month would have paid an entire electric winters electric bill. He had me plant a huge garden that I took care of, I made several upgrades to the cabin. Worked my butt off six days a week for business ownership thinking Fred is a good man and he is looking to better society. I was making good money before I went to work for Fred as a part business owner I was bringing in $3-4K a month and Fred knew this. I left the business with my business partner because Fred convinced me this had way more potential. Everything was going pretty well a couple of months in we were making serious headway. I was learning the business and paying Fred back quickly. He would always ask what I was going to do When I didn't owe him anything and I had all this money? So after 4 months of being up there and 3 months of running the business I had paid Fred back just over $20,000, what he had invested in me, while maintaining all the upkeep on the house. When it came time for me to take over Fred started questioning whether I wanted to do it or if I could do it. I knew what he was getting at so I asked him if after all I have done for him and following through whole heartedly on my end of the deal are you backing out on your word now? He looked me in the eyes and said F!@# You! I'm going back on my word. So I then asked him what we should do with the 10K we had in inventory that when assembled would be around $20-25K? We both knew I had paid him back for all those materials. He said that's mine paid for with my money tracked to my card, get off my property! So I packed up and left. I then started investigating Fred and his work over the years. I talked to someone who had worked for him for an entire year under a very similar agreement. Fred was letting him take over the stoves and boilers. When it came time for Fred to hand it over Fred pulled the same exact move on him. Larry was using his own credit card to buy all the materials by then so at least he was able to take the materials he paid for. Fred always claims Larry stole $10-40K depending on the day. Yeah that's another Seton Lie. Fred had supposedly sold his boiler company to an engineering firm years ago Bethel Engineering. I found that they made several modifications to the boiler, before realizing its no longer worth it. As you can see from reviews online there doesn't seem to be any professional in the radiant floor industry agreeing with his design work. Fred is a hell of a salesman but ultimately a joke. He stumbled across a couple of youtube videos and figured out how to have someone build it and he will sell it. I didn't have a written contract, no salary/income, nothing to take him to court with. So yeah I was the sucker! I recommend if you are going to do any sort of business with Fred make sure you have a written contract. When buying one of his products make sure you have written proof of his claims and make sure he has insurance to back it.


 

I don't have any idea if what you say is true. FWIW if you use paragraphs your rant might come off as a little more believable and less like a crazy dude with a personal vendetta. Just saying.


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## Pat53 (Apr 10, 2013)

mikefrommaine said:


> I don't have any idea if what you say is true. FWIW if you use paragraphs your rant might come off as a little more believable and less like a crazy dude with a personal vendetta. Just saying.


 
Do you really think he would say the things he did if it weren't true? Use paragraphs !? LOL  So someone is not "believable" if they don't use "paragraphs" !? What the hell difference does that make ?  Or are you an English teacher?

I don't think Vern has a "vendetta" either. Sounds to me like he took the loss and is moving on. He's simply warning all of us about a scam/con artist who belongs in jail for ripping people off, and probably copyright infringement. I can tell you one thing, if it had been me, I'd be gettin' even with that SOB, one way or another !

Pat


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## mikefrommaine (Apr 10, 2013)

Like I said  I don't know either way. Don't really care. But it looked like a rant to me.

Maybe if he had followed the standard five paragraph essay format it would have been easier to follow. You know, introduction, body paragraphs 1, 2 and 3 witch contain the strongest arguments in descending order. Followed by a conclusion that restates the thesis and summarizes the basic points. And of course a strong concluding statement.


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## Vern (Apr 11, 2013)

You really couldn't make my story up.  Yes, I'm back on my feet and doing just fine, thank you Pat.  No vendetta here, just a civil duty.  Had Larry written in a blog or review on Fred, I would have found it, and never wasted my time and money.  He had plans of others investing so this is to those people.

MikeFromMain good point.  I wasn't trying to take all day to nor am I trying to write an award winning essay.  It's totally fine if you don't believe me. Yeah, I suck at English. When you are clowning on someone else's writing, you might want to use proper punctuation, complete sentences, and maybe double check the spelling(WITCH)


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## fossil (Jun 27, 2013)

Well, this thread isn't going anywhere we want to go here.


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