# Solar room continues to AMAZE me. Is highly UNDERRATED



## Seasoned Oak (Jan 24, 2011)

After enclosing a former south facing porch with mostly large windows and creating a solar room ,i am continuously amazed by its performance.
Its no hi-tech or expensive project either.Bought 144SF of large windows at auction for $450 and a few $ for lumber and floor tile.
With no source of heat other than the sun and today with an outside temp of 0 Deg the room shot up to 70deg(from 20 at 8 am) by 10 am,78 by 11 and is now feeding excess heat into the house. On sunny winter days the 3000 SF house requires NO other heat from 10am until between 8pm and midnight each day. Depending on the outside temp. At that point the house has cooled down to 75 or less and the main heating system takes over. I think Solar is highly UNDERRATED and will be in my future building plans in a big way.


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## Adios Pantalones (Jan 24, 2011)

I know a guy that has a good one, and the other side of the house is partially in a hill, giving him a walk-in root cellar/storage.  It's a small house, but he heats it on 1.5 cord of wood a year (off the grid) in NH and said it's been hot during the day this past cooold week, and he uses it as a greenhouse in the spring.  I would definitely include this idea in any new construction.


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## maverick06 (Jan 24, 2011)

my parents have one. Great for plants, adds heat, and smells like the outdoors (a little). Its wonderful!


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## precaud (Jan 25, 2011)

Congrats on your good results, trump. I totally agree, passive air heaters are very underrated. You might consider insulating the inside walls of your sunspace, it will come up to temperature more quickly.

Also, you might want to keep an eye on Nick Pine's "Sunspace" group:
http://groups.google.com/group/sunspace?hl=en
His work has had a big influence on my approach to solar air heating.


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## Seasoned Oak (Jan 25, 2011)

precaud said:
			
		

> Congrats on your good results, trump. I totally agree, passive air heaters are very underrated. You might consider insulating the inside walls of your sunspace, it will come up to temperature more quickly.
> 
> Also, you might want to keep an eye on Nick Pine's "Sunspace" group:
> http://groups.google.com/group/sunspace?hl=en
> His work has had a big influence on my approach to solar air heating.



All 3 back walls are insulated the front is all windows 6 @3' wide and 8' high with a full window door in the middle. This thing paid for itself long ago. i can think of plenty of ways to expand such as evacuated tubes above it on the roof and hot water or concrete thermal storage. Hard to believe more people are not doing this after all once the hardware is in the fuel is FREE


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## precaud (Jan 25, 2011)

That's excellent. Is the wall insulation inside the sunspace or inside the house?


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## Seasoned Oak (Jan 25, 2011)

precaud said:
			
		

> That's excellent. Is the wall insulation inside the sunspace or inside the house?



Its between the sunspace and the house .that way when the sun goes down the insulated door is closed and all the heat can be kept from radiating back out through he windows. Even though they are double pane. If i tried to heat the sunspace overnight i would probably lose more heat through the windows overnight than i gained during the day. In morning when the sunspace reaches house temp i open the door to the house. Otherwise it will go up tp 110 Deg in there no matter the outside temp ,and kill the plants. In evening when SS temp drops below inside house temp i close the same door to retain all the heat gained during the day.


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## smokinj (Jan 25, 2011)

Whats going to happen in the summer?


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## precaud (Jan 25, 2011)

Sounds like you sussed it out well, trump. Nothin' like free heat.



> Whats going to happen in the summer?



An overhang on the roof will block direct sun into the glazing when the sun is higher in the sky.


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## Seasoned Oak (Jan 25, 2011)

smokinjay said:
			
		

> Whats going to happen in the summer?


THe roof overhang blocks out 95% of the room from any sun except in the morning and evening and as i have two large windows on each end i just leave them open.
Also can leave the entrance door wide open as well. No problem at all in summer.


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## madrone (Jan 26, 2011)

pics? drawin's?


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## SolarAndWood (Jan 26, 2011)

trump said:
			
		

> In evening when SS temp drops below inside house temp i close the same door to retain all the heat gained during the day.



I wonder if you could get even more out of your solar space and lose less at night if you built inside storms out of solar sheet technology.  Not great if part of the reason for the space is the view but maybe not such a bad compromise in the winter when you are at work during all the sunlight anyway.  I have a similar space with a 12x12 bank of solar south facing glass.  The passive approach is pretty compelling compared to the cost and complexity of tubes on the roof.


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## potter (Jan 26, 2011)

I'd also love to see pics, our house lends itself to this and have been thinking along these lines.


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## Seasoned Oak (Jan 26, 2011)

its actually still not completely finished but ill take a few pics later.


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## Seasoned Oak (Jan 26, 2011)

potter said:
			
		

> I'd also love to see pics, our house lends itself to this and have been thinking along these lines.


The room is 24 ' long but only 5.5' wide and 8+ ' high 6 windows 3Wx8H and 1 smaller one on each side.
I used the darkest 12x12 floor tile i could find over cement board which is over the original porch floor wood.


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## Chain (Jan 28, 2011)

I'm not sure anyone on here is familiar with the magazine "Adirondack Life,"  but an issue from this summer ( I think it was the June issue) had a great article about an architect who started a passive and active solar home building company about 30 years ago that serviced primarily the Adirondack Park region of upstate, NY.  He's built many passive and active solar homes over the years in various locations across the park and still to this day swears they're the answer to our energy crisis.  A few of the people he's built houses for were interviewed for the article and had nothing but good things to say about his designs.  Keep in mind, the Park is famous for it's brutal winters and long heating season.  Despite this, his designs are extremely efficient and cost very little to heat, light, cool, etc.. They're also extremely durable and cost little to maintain over their lifetime.  If I were to build a new home, I'd definitely consider an active solar home.


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## henkmeuzelaar (Jan 29, 2011)

Our new loghome in the Idaho Rocky Mountains has a 2-story, fully windowed, south-facing prow. After some of the worst snow storms and occasional sub-zero cold spells this month, which saw us struggling to learn how best to keep this all-electric home comfy, the sun finally broke through for an entire week. 

Although outside temperatures barely budged (and night-time temp even dropped lower under the clear starry skies) the heating effect of the sun was nothing short of miraculous. Instead of 200 kWh days (total house consumption) we dropped to 120 kWh or so! (don't feel bad for us; our electric rates are less than $ 0.05/kWh).

The big windowed prow was primarily designed to provide maximum views of the lake (Palisades reservoir) and surrounding mountains (Caribou NF + Targhee NF) but its solar properties turn out to be a big bonus.  Of course, a true solar room would trap even more solar heat but, so far, we are very happy with the free winter BTUs.

Henk


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## begreen (Jan 29, 2011)

How is the nighttime radiation through the glass reduced? Are there insulated blinds or curtains? Or is there a lot of thermal mass that soaks up the daytime sun and releases it at night?


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## henkmeuzelaar (Jan 29, 2011)

the main thermal mass in the room and adjoining loft, right now must be the log walls. The cathedral roof is made of insulating materials with a relatively thin internal T&G lining, so it's thermal mass is relatively low. Ditto for the carpeted floors. 

One promising area to add more thermal mass would be the tall internal chimney of the fireplace which I was going to clad with cultured stone. Since the fireplace, with its fairly massive log mantel, directly faces the prow windows and catches a fair amount of direct sunlight I should probably give some thought to a higher thermal mass type of cover there.

Finally, as to the double pane windows, for now we don't have any type of window cover. Moreover, traditionally my wife has the final say on curtains and blinds and her choices are unlikely to be swayed much by heat transport considerations...... However, I am framing each window with a 6" deep cedar box to help keep the inside air layer stagnant and also will refrain from putting electric baseboard heaters underneath which would just disturb the internal air layer and potentially turn the prow into a detrimental sort of heat exchanger.  

I have not been too worried yet about night-time radiation losses since I figured that the room's ambient low-temperature radiative wavelengths are pretty effectively cut off by the glass. Do let me know if I am wrong.

Henk



			
				BeGreen said:
			
		

> How is the nighttime radiation through the glass reduced? Are there insulated blinds or curtains? Or is there a lot of thermal mass that soaks up the daytime sun and releases it at night?


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## begreen (Jan 29, 2011)

With low energy costs and good sunshine it sounds like you have a great running start. I was just curious about how it was all coming together. Is there a large brow over the prow to reduce heat loading in the summer? We need pics!


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## henkmeuzelaar (Jan 30, 2011)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> With low energy costs and good sunshine it sounds like you have a great running start. I was just curious about how it was all coming together. Is there a large brow over the prow to reduce heat loading in the summer? We need pics!



OK, These pics should give some idea

The prow brow (?!) is only a little more than 2 ft deep (see pic below) but it helps of course that the sun stands higher in the sky in summer.  When it gets a bit hot in the afternoon we can open the entire row of lower prow (wow!) windows to let the lake/canyon breeze come through. 

A second pic shows an inside look at the prow from the loft area (notice that this was before the windows were placed).

The third pic shows the fireplace with its chimney (plus provisional bench to prevent me from hitting my head on the log mantel ends.  I plan to mount some of my favorite fossils on the hood/chimney front (in addition to a "travel through geological time" series along the log staircase in the back for the grandkids) but should probably first give some more thought on how to increase the thermal mass.

Henk


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## Chain (Feb 1, 2011)

Wow!  Impressive home and views.....You should feel privileged to own such a wonderful part of Mother Earth.  Thanks for sharing those photos.  I'm curious, is the roof section over the cathedral ceiling made of insulated panels by any chance?


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## henkmeuzelaar (Feb 1, 2011)

Chain said:
			
		

> Wow!  Impressive home and views.....You should feel privileged to own such a wonderful part of Mother Earth.  Thanks for sharing those photos.  I'm curious, is the roof section over the cathedral ceiling made of insulated panels by any chance?



Thanks for your generous comments; we do indeed feel very fortunate to live in this incredible place (found by flying around on Google Earth, in search of a quiet place with big water views, as we prepared to retire from our ocean-based assistance work). The fabulous views, and very affordable land costs, come at the price of a remote location (no neighbors in winter; just a few summer cabins) and no other utilities than electricity (fortunately at very low hydroelectric power rates). 

The roof was indeed meant to have 10" thick polystyrene SIP panels above the 2x6 T&G ceiling shown in the inside prow view. However, the specialized SIP installer was running 2 months behind schedule so that the builder could not get the roof on in time for the winter....   So, I told him just to make a roof with 2x8 joists (between the inner T&G and outer OSB layer) so I could later have someone blow in Polyurethane foam through holes in the T&G, in order to pass inspection for the required R39 roof insulation standard. 

That got the roof on before the heavy snow came.   Unfortunately, the lone PUF installer willing to work at our remote location quoted a stratospheric price and needed more holes than a swiss cheese.  So our grandson diligently removed the center T&G board over each joist space. Then we had cellulose blown in, added 5" of PS foam board below the old T&G and finally had the new T&G ceiling installed that you see on the fireplace pic.

Wasteful? yes.... Expensive? no! 
When all was said and done, the total cost of this "multilayer approach" was about 60% of the PUF quote and even slightly below the original SIP quote. Plus we ended up with a much more colorful (trim wood quality) T&G ceiling than the original, structural T&Gs;.

Henk


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## Chain (Feb 1, 2011)

Sounds like the method you used was a better, if less convenient, way to insulate the roof anyway.  And as you said, cheaper.  What type of stove is in your fireplace?  Wood, gas, pellet stove?   I bet you can things nice and cozy in that space on a sunny, wintry day between the greenhouse effect and the stove.  Ah, yes, a tumbler of bourbon, a nice smoke, a good book, cozy chair...... and that view.  Priceless!


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## henkmeuzelaar (Feb 1, 2011)

It is a Majestic WarmMajic 36" wood fireplace (double-walled for forced convection and with tempered glass folding windows). 

We use it for back-up heating if the power fails and, of course, for creating the kind of cozy, lazy atmosphere that you so eloquently describe! 

Henk

PS: I usually drink red Port although Southern Comfort (does that even count as a Bourbon?) hits the spot pretty well too. Just a little harder to get here, unless we drive 55 miles to Jackson Hole or Idaho Falls.


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## Chain (Feb 4, 2011)

PyMS said:
			
		

> It is a Majestic WarmMajic 36" wood fireplace (double-walled for forced convection and with tempered glass folding windows).
> 
> We use it for back-up heating if the power fails and, of course, for creating the kind of cozy, lazy atmosphere that you so eloquently describe!
> 
> ...



I'm not sure if Southern Comfort is actually a Bourbon.  I prefer Old Grand Dad or Jim Beam.....Jack Daniels always works nicely as well.  Nothing beats a good wood fire while enjoying some spirits...


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## mesuno (Feb 5, 2011)

If you can't build a whole room then a solar box heater can work very well and fits below any south facing window.

I've seen plans in various places, but this version is pretty good.

http://campfire.theoildrum.com/node/5095


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