# Black Locust for Deck



## Lakeside (Oct 29, 2013)

I am sure this topic is not exactly appropriate for this forum but I thought maybe some of you might have some input or would this would be of interest to you also, so here goes.

I have just begun the task of determine what materials I want to use to replace my deck. Interestingly enough my research has lead my to one of my favorite firewood's Black Locust.

The goal is to replace my "Deck from Hell" with a material that will not require a lot of maintenance and not put a dent in my 4O1 K either.

So far some of the Pro's of BL are -
Rot resistant
Sustainable ( this can be procured locally in NY and Mass)
Long lasting ( this stuff should last well over 50 years)
Hard, strong, close-grained and very durable ( Janka hardness 1700 - 2000 harder than white oak)
Disposal ( it does not have any chemicals , all scrapes will find a home in my stove)
Maintenance free

Some of the Con's are -
Needs attention to proper drying other wise material will be difficult to fabricate
Drys to a grey color , this is fine with me but maybe a concern for some
High scrape rate - in order to get good deck boards
Large long boards are not available due to the size and shape of the trees, deck layout needs to address this.

So any of you fellow Black Locust fans have any experience building with this material ?

Any pointers to add to my lists ?

Moderate feel free to move this topic.


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## nsfd95 (Oct 29, 2013)

I know around here some of the first houses used black locust logs in the foundations and the farmers used to use it for fence posts.


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## Rickb (Oct 29, 2013)

Keep in mind  you will have to stain/seal that at least twice a year because the grain is so tight.  We are in the same boat and thought it would be cool to use tiger wood, but after more research it turned out to be not so great of an idea.


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## Jon1270 (Oct 29, 2013)

My biggest concern would be splinters.


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## Beetle-Kill (Oct 29, 2013)

Trex for the decking, Locust for the stove.....just my opinion, I may be wrong.


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## Standingdead (Oct 30, 2013)

I have used 1x6 locust before for construction (stall walls in heavy traffic kicking area, etc). Once dried for a year they are a nightmare to drive screws through. I got the boards for free so I used them instead of oak. Boards cut easy enough. Tend not to cup. When cured they are a dark grey. The boards I got were 10-16 foot lengths and are heavier than you'd think. If your looking for rustic and don't mind per drilling screws it's an interesting choice. Good luck


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## cygnus (Oct 30, 2013)

I think it's a great idea but have not seen it done. Several local mills work with the stuff because it is so abundant around here. 
Splinters might be a more serious issue with BL compared with other woods so plan on a good sanding. 
The length and size of the planks should be a consideration too. I know how large the trees can get but they are not typically straight or round so id think the milled planks would generally be shorter and narrower than other options.  Using a varied width of planks might save on cost and look really cool.  

Keep us posted on the project. I'd like to know what you decide and how it works out.


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## Paulywalnut (Oct 30, 2013)

You might have to round the edges of the boards. Locust gives you a nasty splinter.
weathering seems to bring out splits and then splintering again. Great firewood though.


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## arro222 (Oct 30, 2013)

Rickb said:


> Keep in mind  you will have to stain/seal that at least twice a year because the grain is so tight.  We are in the same boat and thought it would be cool to use tiger wood, but after more research it turned out to be not so great of an idea.



What happens if grain is tight that it needs to be conditioned so often?


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## Rickb (Oct 30, 2013)

From what I read is that the grain is so tight it will not absorb the stain/sealer.


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## Soundchasm (Oct 30, 2013)

+1 on the BL splinter thing.  I thought it was just me.  For a while, my definition of a hard/soft wood was that if you could pull it out it was a softwood.  If it made more sense to push it through, it was a hardwood.


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## BCC_Burner (Oct 30, 2013)

I'm close friends with a couple people who recently started a ski company.  They use Black Locust for their sidewalls and as part of the cores of their skis.  They need the wood to be as straight and consistently grained as possible for this application.  If you're interested I can get in touch with him and see where they source their BL lumber from.  They start with boards and mill/plane all their cores in house, so this guy also has a lot of experience working with the stuff.


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## Ehouse (Oct 30, 2013)

Lakeside said:


> I am sure this topic is not exactly appropriate for this forum but I thought maybe some of you might have some input or would this would be of interest to you also, so here goes.
> 
> I have just begun the task of determine what materials I want to use to replace my deck. Interestingly enough my research has lead my to one of my favorite firewood's Black Locust.
> 
> ...




Of course it has chemicals, just not man introduced ones, which is why it doesn't rot.  Seeds and leaves are toxic to livestock and humans (sometimes fatal) saw dust can cause problems.

Where I am in NY, a deck is an assessable item, whereas a stone patio is not.


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## Lakeside (Oct 30, 2013)

Thanks for all the comments , I will have to get back to follow up later this week the days are just too short.

I do have a good link with some insight to this quest for now  link

http://extension.psu.edu/natural-re...echnotes/going-green-with-a-black-locust-deck


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## Bret Chase (Oct 30, 2013)

... an old saying... "a locust post will last a year and a half longer than a stone wall"...

around here... the issue would be that the lumber isn't stamped... seriously....


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## Lakeside (Oct 31, 2013)

Well lets see if I can review a few items

*Maintenance free *- I will be letting the black locust grey out , from what I have read even ipe and the other hardwoods will do the some without maintenance.
*Splinters* - Ouch , this has gotten my attention. Have to get the boards planed , round the edges and some sanding too from the looks of things.  I will have learn some more about how high a risk this is with this type of wood.
*Chemicals*- It does not have any man made ones that would require special disposal . A good tip on avoiding the saw dust thanks I was not a wear of the toxic to livestock concern either.
*Preparation *- this appears to be key to getting good results - starting with the drying for 6 months but not so long the board turn to rock from what I have learned. Pre- drilling is required too.

As for whats next , I learned the location of a few decks made of BL within an hours drive soo I think its time for a road trip.

Thank you all .

Over and Out !

Another  *Working With Local Wood * link


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## gzecc (Nov 1, 2013)

Of all places, you can see it in Queens NY at the Botanical garden.
http://www.blacklocustlumber.com/decking.htm


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## Flatbedford (Nov 1, 2013)

gzecc said:


> Of all places, you can see it in Queens NY at the Botanical garden.
> http://www.blacklocustlumber.com/decking.htm



I was gonna link to that site. I saw it a while ago, may have even posted it here. I will be looking into when I get around to rebuilding the shoddily built 20 year old deck at my house.


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## 711mhw (Nov 2, 2013)

Locust is pretty trim as well. Many old homes (back when the local lumber yard made them) door & window sills were locust for the rot resistance. I think if you had some boards sawn (green) with a mild saw kerf *finish, I'd just round over the top or face corners with a router and nail it down green. That stuff is harder than woodpecker lips when dry!

*I like the look of a rotary sawn board but bandmills tend to have a smoother finish. 
Also the fence posts that I have cut were not especially splinter prone but they may have been honey locust. Not sure of the difference, all locust is good!


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## Lakeside (Nov 2, 2013)

*FYI*

For some more info check this link
About half way down are some nice pictures of a large deck project.

http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=55081.0


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## beardley (Nov 11, 2013)

I'm actually picking up a load of BL for porch decking tomorrow. The posts and joists are BL as well and let me just tell you, not only is screwing it hard, good luck driving nails. We had to drill pilot holes for the nails and I broke 3 drill bits off in the holes. I was using 10d commons and 16d sinkers. After 20 or so bent nails I got the hang of it, but you need a heavy hammer and light steady swings. Here's a shot of the house, you can sort of see the porch in the closest corner. I'll post some pictures of the deck when I get it on later this week/weekend.


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## Lakeside (Nov 12, 2013)

Nice picture !

Thanks for the tips and plz do post more pictures when you can. Stay warm.


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## beardley (Nov 17, 2013)

Got the deck 99% done. The last 2 boards need to be ripped down and bull nosed to finish the job. I really really like the grain on this wood. Having a local mill do this paid off. I had 6x6 posts supporting the porch, so he used the edges of the log to make the floor boards which have a really nice grain. I want to try an preserve this look as much as possible, so time to research a neutral stain/protectant. I did manage to mess up a couple cuts, darn miter saw was off of 0deg and I didn't notice. . . I have a little slack, so I'm just going to hit the edge with a skill saw to square it back up. Sorry about the mud too. . .


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## cygnus (Nov 18, 2013)

Beardly - that looks great!  Thanks for the pics.  The choice to go with something like locust is more than just financial but, any idea how the cost stacks up against typical pressure treated stuff?


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## beardley (Nov 18, 2013)

I wish I had a better answer, but the best I could say would be that it most likely will be cheaper. The hardest part is finding a sawyer that can find the trees. They aren't the straightest growing, so getting long boards can be a challenge. We wanted to use it for the sill plate as well, but in the spring when we started, he couldn't find a wood lot with suitable logs. That being said, I can't really see how PT from a lumber yard could be cheaper than black locust from a local yocal mill. 

Like you said, its more than financial. I didn't have to wear a mask while cutting this, and I don't have to worry about toxic slivers. Even if it did cost more, the plusses way out weigh the negatives in my mind.


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## Bret Chase (Dec 5, 2013)

The locust around here grows like a corkscrew.... which works fine cut into 16" lengths... no so much for boards...  and BTW.... Black locust is toxic, esp the cambium layer...


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## blades (Dec 6, 2013)

One of Mother natures answers to pressure treated ( rots out in 10 years or less) man made stuff or the plastic/ wood composite stuff.


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## BIGDADDY (Dec 6, 2013)

The wood grain looks great. How difficult was it to nail and cut?


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## BIGDADDY (Dec 6, 2013)

blades said:


> One of Mother natures answers to pressure treated ( rots out in 10 years or less) man made stuff or the plastic/ wood composite stuff.



Did you say pressure treated rots out in 10 years or less?  I know that's a false statement.


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## beardley (Dec 6, 2013)

BIGDADDY said:


> The wood grain looks great. How difficult was it to nail and cut?



Nailing the framing together was not fun. I would recommend against trying. We layer the deck down with regular deck screws with no issue. It took them very well in fact. We only drilled pilot holes on the ends. All of the middle holes we just plowed on through. You need a heavy duty corded drill though. My li ion was not up to the task. It's great wood and should stand up to the abuse of shoveling much better than the pressure treated.


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## RKK (Dec 7, 2013)

BIGDADDY said:


> Did you say pressure treated rots out in 10 years or less?  I know that's a false statement.



The old green PT that had copper arsenate would last 150 years or better but from what I have seen of the new green PT 10 years is a long time.  Used the new on my deck 7 years ago and will never again, already needs to be replaced.  Decks I built 25 years ago with the old PT are still going strong.


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## BIGDADDY (Dec 7, 2013)

RKK said:


> The old green PT that had copper arsenate would last 150 years or better but from what I have seen of the new green PT 10 years is a long time.  Used the new on my deck 7 years ago and will never again, already needs to be replaced.  Decks I built 25 years ago with the old PT are still going strong.


I didn't know that. My deck is 19 years old and solid as ever. Bring back the arsenic baby!


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