# Switching Craftsman power tools over to LiON



## wahoowad (Dec 12, 2014)

I frequently use my Sears Craftsman 19.2V power tools but the battery packs no longer hold a charge very long. These are the NiCD batteries they first came out with and I've replaced a couple of them over the past few years. The new replacement ones seem to go bad even quicker so am hesitant to buy any more of them at $35 apiece. (and yes, there are youtube videos about how to trick them to accept a charge again but I found they recharge but can't sustain that charge long).

My tools are still fine - drill, reciprocating saw and a couple lights so have been thinking about switching over to the LiON version of the battery packs. If you use these, have you found they last any longer? I've beeb checking Sears for good sales but haven't found an adequately discounted/sale item to convince me to make a purchase.

I would jettison the whole lot and go with a new set (like Dewalt or other good brand) but so far not seeing a heavily discounted sale yet....


----------



## ironpony (Dec 12, 2014)

we run Dewalt 20v lions here at work. we have several crews and they are not gentle on them, but they are holding up well.
watch for a sale and switch over, although sales are few and far between anymore.


----------



## mustash29 (Dec 12, 2014)

I have a Riobi kit (5.25 trim saw, drill, flashlight, sawzall & mostly useless vacume) from back around 2000.  The 1st pair of batteries died.  The 2nd took a dirt nap last summer, so I am on the 3rd set of NiCd's now.

We have a lot of Milwalkee LiON stuff at work (power plant), drills, impacts & sawzalls.  They pretty much kick butt.  It's nice to have the little LED display on the battery so you can see how much charge is remaining before you trek to the other side of the plant (or up roughly 130 stairs to the 9th floor) for your project.  My only complaint about LiON is that the batteries give very little warning when they are about to go dead.  It's like running out of gas, full power one minute and a few seconds later dead in it's tracks where the NiCd's taper off as they are about to die.


----------



## heat seeker (Dec 12, 2014)

Wait for the after-Christmas sales.


----------



## AK13 (Dec 12, 2014)

I don't know about Craftsman, but I know with Dewalts you could keep your old drills and just switch to the new Lithium Ion batteries. They weren't a perfect fit, plenty good enough. Probably not possible for most brands though. Of course they practically give the drills away for free. Most of the cost seems to be in the batteries. 

I've been using a Hitachi 18v Li-ion drill set. Its great.


----------



## semipro (Dec 12, 2014)

I have both Ni-cad and lithium Dewalts and I much prefer the lithium.  The batteries themselves seem to last longer and I believe the power density (amp-hr/weight) is higher.  
One thing that's a little hard to get used to is that while Ni-cads let you know they are getting low by tailing off while the lithiums I use supply full power until they shut off abruptly. 
When you've just topped out on a tall ladder its frustrating to hit the switch and get on a few seconds of power.  I've learned to carry an extra battery along with me. 

Although I really like my Dewalt, you may consider HD's Rigid line.  They provide a lifetime warranty on the rechargeable tools and batteries.  I don't have any so I don't know the warranty details though.


----------



## Retired Guy (Dec 12, 2014)

I have great luck with Bosch.


----------



## Shaft546 (Dec 14, 2014)

I own ten tools on the Craftsman 19.2 line and both nicd and lithium batteries. I'm not a heavy user, so these are perfect for me. I don't think they are pro grade, but I haven't broke any yet. I highly recommend the lithiums. Last longer and consistent. I joined the rewards program on shopyourway.com for the deals to get them cheaper. I have not bought any tools full price. Hope that helps.


----------



## Warm_in_NH (Dec 14, 2014)

We use the DeWalt 20 v lithium at work. I just swapped over this spring. We beat the snot out of them and they take it.

Only con I found is that while they perform better in the clod than the nicad did, they won't take a charge and the charger won't slowly warm them like the nicads would. I watched a battery blink "cold pack delay" for 8 hours straight the other day.

For less money, I have used the rigid HD set and liked it. Almost bought it but my supplier had a great sale this spring on the DeWalt and that's what I've used for years.

Lighter, longer run time, seem stronger. If you use them enough to make it worth while, make the switch.


----------



## midwestcoast (Dec 14, 2014)

All the big tool companies have recently come out with higher capacity 18v Li-ions. Generally 4 amp hour for the larger batteries and 2Ah for the compact.  You might find deals on the older 3.0 and 1.5Ah batteries or tool combos with those older batteries. 
I think Li-ion are a smart upgrade for all the reasons mentioned PLUS they self discharge MUCH more slowly. Meaning you can put a fully charged battery on the shelf for many months of no use & it won't destroy the cells.


----------



## OhioBurner© (Dec 14, 2014)

The li-ions blow away the standard batteries in my 19.2V craftsmans. It seems like even with minimal homeowner use pretty much all my standard batteries have died in just a few years. I've been debating opening up the cases and buying the actual li-ion cells and repower them, but I wanted to open a li-ion pack up just to make sure how they are wired and a little hesitant to do that. I did some searching online, figured someone must have done this, but couldn't find anything. Maybe its time to look again. In any case though li-ion cells are quite pricey for quality ones.


----------



## bassJAM (Dec 15, 2014)

I didn't realize that you could run lithium ion battery packs in tools originally made for Ni-Cad.  But apparently as long as you keep the voltage the same it should work.  Personally, I got rid of the few ni-Cad tools I had and got a Bosch LiOn 18V  set.  It's a huge improvement.  Not only do the batteries last longer (even with mine being the lighter "slim packs".  But the tool itself is much more compact and light than my old 18V Dewalt.


----------



## Warm_in_NH (Dec 15, 2014)

AK13 said:


> I don't know about Craftsman, but I know with Dewalts you could keep your old drills and just switch to the new Lithium Ion batteries. They weren't a perfect fit, plenty good enough. Probably not possible for most brands though. Of course they practically give the drills away for free. Most of the cost seems to be in the batteries.
> 
> I've been using a Hitachi 18v Li-ion drill set. Its great.




Really are you surr?
I have yet to see this.


----------



## bholler (Dec 15, 2014)

Warm_in_NH said:


> Really are you surr?
> I have yet to see this.


On the old 18 v stuff dewalt came out with some li batteries but honestly they were not very good that is why we switched to Milwaukee now their 20v stuff seems great but we already switched


----------



## seige101 (Dec 15, 2014)

Do a quick google search for battery pack rebuilding. There are some places where you can rebuild an old NICAD battery pack for a fraction of new. I have not found a place that will rebuild with Liion cells. Probably because you need a different charger.


----------



## Seasoned Oak (Dec 15, 2014)

Get the Craftsman Li-ion 19.2 and dont look back. I have at least 30 tools that take these batteries and had about 10 old style 19.2 batteries. Of the 10 about 4 still work and only 2 work well. I also have 3 Li-ion batteries that fit all these tools. They run forever are much stronger and dont have memory problems.  I have their BEST 4 Ah HD Li-ion which one of the newest models. It takes an hour and a half to charge but it last and last before recharge. These tools are very good quality. ID put them up against my Dewalt tools any day. By the way my old dewalt Nicad batteries are also dying one at a time. I still have the first 19.2 volt craftsman drill i ever bought. Its very old, fell off the roof a few times,all beat up and stlll works good.


----------



## Seasoned Oak (Dec 15, 2014)

seige101 said:


> Do a quick google search for battery pack rebuilding. There are some places where you can rebuild an old NICAD battery pack for a fraction of new. I have not found a place that will rebuild with Liion cells. Probably because you need a different charger.


I looked in to this , but after all the time spent you still have old tech batteries. Get the Li-ion. If the Li- ions are good enough to power an electric car, they can certainly run a drill with ease.


----------



## bholler (Dec 15, 2014)

The craftsman stuff is very good homeowner grade stuff but i have found it does not hold up long professionally.


----------



## seige101 (Dec 15, 2014)

Seasoned Oak said:


> I looked in to this , but after all the time spent you still have old tech batteries. Get the Li-ion. If the Li- ions are good enough to power an electric car, they can certainly run a drill with ease.


Oh i agree that Li-ion is much better. I personally have a boat load of Milwaukee m18 and m12 tools all with extended life Li-ion batteries. If it's for a homeowner only using for occasional stuff the old tech will suit them just fine


----------



## OhioBurner© (Dec 16, 2014)

seige101 said:


> Do a quick google search for battery pack rebuilding. There are some places where you can rebuild an old NICAD battery pack for a fraction of new. I have not found a place that will rebuild with Liion cells. Probably because you need a different charger.



I've got both the standard and the li-ion charger, but never came up with any good info on how to convert the old battery packs so I was just going to open up my one li-ion 19.2 to see how its wired. I am hoping there was just something simple like balancing resistors and not actual circuitry though I could replicate that too if it wasn't proprietary. But its been a while since I searched for info so maybe worth another search. I do have a bunch of 18650 li-ion cells which should be great.


----------



## semipro (Dec 16, 2014)

Every Li-ion battery back I've opened has some sort of microprocessor based circuitry inside. Individual cell voltage balance is critical to Li-ion packs and the circuitry apparently handles that.  I believe the circuitry also protects the pack from use at low voltages which is why I suspect the packs cut off abruptly when they get low.


----------



## Seasoned Oak (Dec 16, 2014)

bholler said:


> The craftsman stuff is very good homeowner grade stuff but i have found it does not hold up long professionally.


Iv been using their stuff for over 20 years. I would consider it used professionally as iv been self employed full time in the residential construction add rehab business for about 26 years. I use the drills,saws and screw drivers all day long at times. As i said i still have the first 19.2 drill when they first came out and it still works fine. I have every tool and accessory in the entire 19.2 line. All still work with the exception of the old style batteries which have a limited lifespan. Im not sure my dewalt tools would take the beating the craftsman tools do ,in fact my right angle dewalt drill casing has cracked and is all but useless and my dewalt hammer drill died after only a year. I also have a few milwaukee tools that still work after 20 years although only 2 of the 4 batteries still work somewhat..


----------



## bholler (Dec 16, 2014)

Seasoned Oak said:


> Iv been using their stuff for over 20 years. I would consider it used professionally as iv been self employed full time in the residential construction add rehab business for about 26 years. I use the drills,saws and screw drivers all day long at times. As i said i still have the first 19.2 drill when they first came out and it still works fine. I have every tool and accessory in the entire 19.2 line. All still work with the exception of the old style batteries which have a limited lifespan. Im not sure my dewalt tools would take the beating the craftsman tools do ,in fact my right angle dewalt drill casing has cracked and is all but useless and my dewalt hammer drill died after only a year. I also have a few milwaukee tools that still work after 20 years although only 2 of the 4 batteries still work somewhat..


Glad you had good luck with them the contractor i worked for last got a set and with in 6 months there was not a tool left working not even the flash light the switch went bad on it.  I found the cases very brittle and just all around not very good.  But that is just my experience.  Actually the best cordless drill i ever had was a panasonic it had tons of power and was really durable i would regularly run it till smoke was pouring out of the back of it let it cool down and it would be fine.  Any other drill i did that with usually didn't restart.  I honestly didnt like the 18v dewalt stuff at all it was low on power and they had crappy batteries.  I like my Milwaukee stuff now the best part about it is the 5 year warantee I have had both the drill and impact driver rebuilt they did it with no problems even though the drill was broken in half from coming off a three story roof


----------



## OhioBurner© (Dec 16, 2014)

semipro said:


> Every Li-ion battery back I've opened has some sort of microprocessor based circuitry inside. Individual cell voltage balance is critical to Li-ion packs and the circuitry apparently handles that.  I believe the circuitry also protects the pack from use at low voltages which is why I suspect the packs cut off abruptly when they get low.


Well that's what I was afraid off. You can get li-ion cells with built in protection circuits within the cell (overdischarge, undervoltage, etc) but the balancing for charging was what I was most worried about.

It would be a pain but I was even thinking of completely leaving out any kind of balancing or charging circuitry and charge the cells in my own charger. But then every time I'd have to take them all apart and it would take a few sessions to charge them all since my charger wont hold that many individual cells at once (unless I buy a bigger charger). Hmmm. Might just be a fun project to try, even if its not as convenient.


----------



## wahoowad (Dec 18, 2014)

I couldn't find a suitable combo kit in the Rigid, Dewalt and Milwaukee line better than this Porter-Cable 20v kit for $199. Craftsman does have a 19.2v 4-tool kit for $169 but I think the Porter-Cable tools are just a little more updated and you get a 4-ah and a 2-ah LiON batteries. I'm gonna keep an eye on the price at Lowes and hope I can get it for cheaper after Christmas.

Porter-Cable 20v 4-tool set *$199*/Lowes


----------



## Seasoned Oak (Dec 18, 2014)

That porter cable set is pictured with one 1.5 and one 4AH battery on the saw but the specs say the kit comes with 2@  1.5 Ah batteries. So not sure what you get. Nice looking set. I have one 4ah battery for the craftsman tools and it is amazing how long it lasts between charges.


----------



## wahoowad (Dec 18, 2014)

The reviews said it came with 1 each of the batteries, and the pic looks like the circular saw has a bigger battery in it


----------



## Seasoned Oak (Dec 18, 2014)

wahoowad said:


> The reviews said it came with 1 each of the batteries, and the pic looks like the circular saw has a bigger battery in it


That would make this kit a good deal as that 4Ah Battery alone is $89 purchased seperately.


----------



## wahoowad (Dec 19, 2014)

Seasoned Oak said:


> That would make this kit a good deal as that 4Ah Battery alone is $89 purchased seperately.



It will be a good deal when it goes on sale


----------



## Seasoned Oak (Dec 19, 2014)

I believe that kit pictured is a porter cable and not a ridgid.


----------



## wahoowad (Dec 19, 2014)

Thanks, fixed it


----------



## thinkxingu (Dec 19, 2014)

The weakness on all these kits is the reciprocating saw--I have yet to find one other than Hitachi that works even close to a corded one.  I've a Li-ion Hitachi kit with circular saw, recip saw, hammer drill, regular drill, and impact driver from 6 years ago that works as new, and it's been beaten to snot.  For the money, I'm confident there's nothing better.


----------



## Seasoned Oak (Dec 20, 2014)

Craftsman reciprocating saw works fine with one exception. When operating overhead the sawdust goes right down into the saws inner workings. Other than that its strong with a good battery.


----------



## RSNovi (Dec 20, 2014)

semipro said:


> Every Li-ion battery back I've opened has some sort of microprocessor based circuitry inside. Individual cell voltage balance is critical to Li-ion packs and the circuitry apparently handles that.  I believe the circuitry also protects the pack from use at low voltages which is why I suspect the packs cut off abruptly when they get low.


Yes, you have a state of charge region that you want to operate the battery in.  The trick is to optimize battery lifetime vs usage time.  Go outside of the range and you can start to degrade the battery.


----------



## begreen (Dec 20, 2014)

I was an early adopter and got the top of the line Makita 1/2" 18v cordless. No regrets at all other than the price. Fine Woodworking at the time rated it the best. It was the only one that could continuously core doors for locksets. I know I have worked its butt off and it still works great.


----------



## bholler (Dec 22, 2014)

thinkxingu said:


> The weakness on all these kits is the reciprocating saw--I have yet to find one other than Hitachi that works even close to a corded one.


The Milwaukee one works great




begreen said:


> I was an early adopter and got the top of the line Makita 1/2" 18v cordless. No regrets at all other than the price. Fine Woodworking at the time rated it the best. It was the only one that could continuously core doors for locksets. I know I have worked its butt off and it still works great.


Yes i have used a few makita 18v tools and they are great but they cost allot more than the Milwaukee which is why i went that way


----------

