# led Christmas tree strings - Any experience here?



## Sprinter (Dec 11, 2016)

I'm thinking about buying several strings of led tree lights.  Does anyone have any experience or ideas about them?  

My main concerns are longevity, white color consistency, etc.  I'm after something that will look pretty much like typical 100 light strings, but more reliable.  

Any advice about brand names or anything else I should look for?


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## velvetfoot (Dec 11, 2016)

I got some a couple years ago that have a kind of lens on the ends of the bulbs.  They are smaller but sparkle more than others.


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## Sprinter (Dec 11, 2016)

velvetfoot said:


> I got some a couple years ago that have a kind of lens on the ends of the bulbs.  They are smaller but sparkle more than others.


Thanks.  Have you lost any lamps in two years?  Do you have a link?  Sounds interesting.


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## velvetfoot (Dec 11, 2016)

No loss.  Forget where I got them-Home Depot?


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## jebatty (Dec 12, 2016)

Great saving on electricity use, but quality has been low. Get strings that stay "on" even if you lose a led bulb. I've lost strings due to failure of one led bulb or connection to the bulb, and not easy to find the problem. Just like the series wired incandescent bulbs of bygone years.


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## iamlucky13 (Dec 12, 2016)

I haven't switched yet because I have yet to see any that look as good as incandescents. I'm not too worried about the energy use, since we don't use a large number of lights, and only run them a couple hours a night. I think I plugged ours into a Kill a Watt meter last year and measured less than 100 Watts, so we're probably spending about 5 cents a day lighting up the tree.

I helped my father-in-law put up some Home Depot colored C7-sized LED's a couple weeks ago. One string out of four had several wires cut clean through - an obvious manufacturing defect that I'm sure Home Depot replaced. The others were fine.

Longevity usually isn't a major issue with LED's. If they're working out of the box, the primary concern for longevity is the wiring and connection of the LED's to the wiring. There's not much to do to avoid that aside from checking reviews to see if there is a large proportion of consistent problems.

For lighting quality and consistency, I don't think there's any alternative to seeing the lights turned on in person. What one person is happy with for lighting quality isn't necessarily what another person will be happy with.


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## Sprinter (Dec 12, 2016)

Thanks guys.  I'm thinking they're not quite ready for prime time yet as I'm Googling around.  Maybe a really well made pro or commercial set if available, but they would likely be too expensive.  



iamlucky13 said:


> the primary concern for longevity is the wiring and connection of the LED's to the wiring.


The reason I'm asking about typical MTBF of the lamps is that one thing that bugs me about the incandescent's is that once one lamp burns out and shunts across, the others in the 50 lamp portion start going like dominoes.  I was hoping the leds would eliminate that annoyance.  I'm reading mixed reviews about this regarding leds in this application.  Some seem to have problems with darkening and with premature failures which you wouldn't expect with leds.  But hopefully all that will be corrected in the future.  Typical 60 Hz flickering also seems to be an issue for some it seems.

BTW, I'm only concerned about mini-lamp tree strings now.  I haven't put up outside lights for a long time.  And we like white-only FWIW.


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## iamlucky13 (Dec 12, 2016)

Considering the number of people who are satisfied with them, I'd say they are ready for prime time. they're just not ready for picky users like you and me.


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## Sprinter (Dec 12, 2016)

iamlucky13 said:


> Considering the number of people who are satisfied with them, I'd say they are ready for prime time. they're just not ready for picky users like you and me.


Picky user? Me? Oh, maybe you're right.   Just ask begreen how many questions I had when looking into stoves which I knew nothing about, if he remembers.  He even accused me of being an (ugh) engineer like I was on the Klick and Klack show or something.  All in fun of course.  He and others steered me well, though.  Pretty perceptive of him actually.


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## woodgeek (Dec 13, 2016)

I buy the cheap ones a the hardware store, and aim for 'warm white'.  My problem is when they go bad, its not a bulb here or there, but 1/4 or 1/2 of the whole string.  And then swapping bulbs doesn't fix it....its a bad wiring problem.  Then I can't find a matching set.

My advice....buy an extra string or two to put away as spares.


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## Highbeam (Dec 13, 2016)

woodgeek said:


> I buy the cheap ones a the hardware store, and aim for 'warm white'.  My problem is when they go bad, its not a bulb here or there, but 1/4 or 1/2 of the whole string.  And then swapping bulbs doesn't fix it....its a bad wiring problem.  Then I can't find a matching set.
> 
> My advice....buy an extra string or two to put away as spares.



Yep, I've been using them for many years inside and out. They fail just as fast and often as the incandescent sets. When they fail I lose 1/2 string at a time with no hope for repair. Just throw it away. Do not get white, get soft white or warm white which will look like white incandescents if you want "white". The cool blue white LEDs look bad IMO.

The energy savings are significant. We use a photocell activated timer so the lights remain on for 6 hours after it gets dark at 4pm or so these days.


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## Sprinter (Dec 13, 2016)

Highbeam said:


> They fail just as fast and often as the incandescent sets.


Why do think that happens?  Is it just the cheapest materials they can get away with, or what?  Seems contrary to most led applications.  It sounds like they are wired in the same kind of series/parallel arrangement.  Do they shunt when they fail causing the domino effect like the others?  That's my pet peeve.  Not the end of the world, of course, but just one annoyance that shouldn't be necessary IMO.


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## begreen (Dec 13, 2016)

I'm with Highbeam, I like led lights but don't like the cold white ones. They look like the zombie glow north of Castle Black and the wall. I have a string around our porch that I leave up. They're on their third year and doing fine so far. Downside is that when they fail you lose a section and then how do you fix? Of course after fixing regular small bulb strings a few times you are ready to throw them out too.


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## Highbeam (Dec 13, 2016)

Sprinter said:


> Why do think that happens?  Is it just the cheapest materials they can get away with, or what?  Seems contrary to most led applications.  It sounds like they are wired in the same kind of series/parallel arrangement.  Do they shunt when they fail causing the domino effect like the others?  That's my pet peeve.  Not the end of the world, of course, but just one annoyance that shouldn't be necessary IMO.



I'm not sure about this shunt concept. What happens is that half of the string shuts off. No amount of wire wiggling helps this. The half that stays on is usually at full brightness but every once in awhile is reduced power. Just go buy more when they fail.

Just as with regular lights, we always plug them in to test the string before spending time hanging them.


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## Sprinter (Dec 13, 2016)

begreen said:


> Of course after fixing regular small bulb strings a few times you are ready to throw them out too.


Tell me about it...  At least they're pretty cheap, and only once a year.  I guess I just ran out of things to groan about this week


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## Sprinter (Dec 13, 2016)

Highbeam said:


> I'm not sure about this shunt concept. What happens is that half of the string shuts off.


Suddenly?  That I didn't know.  I was relating to the typical , mini incandescent tree strings that have 50 lamps in series, but each lamp shunts across if the filament fails, so the rest will keep glowing, but with more voltage across each one, causing this domino effect as I call it, but it takes a while for that to happen.  But that is probably something that is only practical to to with incandescents, maybe not leds.  The 100 lamp strings put the other 50 in parallel with the first 50.  Anyway, that's what I was relating to.

Remember, I'm only asking about the tree strings.  Outdoor ones are probably strictly series.


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## NickDL (Dec 13, 2016)

We switched to LED for our tree a couple of years ago. We use multi colored lights. I did buy white lights for the fireplace mantel & they look just like traditional incandescent bulbs. I also bought LED icicle lights for out front plus the large bulb strings. So far out of all of the lights, only one string lost a portion. The lights that I bought for this year from an online lighting store, are brighter & appear to be better quality then what I bought at Depot. 







Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## Sprinter (Dec 13, 2016)

Beautiful displays Nick.  Encouraging.

If I had anything to show off like that, I'd start a "show us" thread.  Aw, maybe I will anyway...  You may be fudging the clearances a bit, but I'm sure you're aware of all that.  Just had to throw that in.


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## semipro (Dec 14, 2016)

We've had LEDs for about 4 years now with good luck.  One string half died though.  Buy extras as Woodgeek said.
Also, if you dim you'll need to consider how they work with dimmers.  LEDs can behave strangely on dimmers.  We dim our Xmas tree otherwise the lights are just too bright at night.


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## NickDL (Dec 15, 2016)

Sprinter said:


> Beautiful displays Nick.  Encouraging.
> 
> If I had anything to show off like that, I'd start a "show us" thread.  Aw, maybe I will anyway...  You may be fudging the clearances a bit, but I'm sure you're aware of all that.  Just had to throw that in.


Thanks for the compliment.  Yea, according to the manual, I'm pushing the clearance envelope. I keep an eye on things with my temperature probe & everything is good temperature wise. 

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## Sprinter (Dec 15, 2016)

semipro said:


> Also, if you dim you'll need to consider how they work with dimmers. LEDs can behave strangely on dimmers. We dim our Xmas tree otherwise the lights are just too bright at night.


Why didn't I think of that before.  One thing I know about incandescent filaments is that if you lower the voltage just a tad, they can last much longer.  It doesn't take much either.  I'm going to put one on my standard strings and see if that helps. 

My uncle was an early "pioneer" with very early computers using vacuum tubes for switches.  They  used to keep the filaments low for that reason.  It was essential to keep them going since they used who knows how many and they worked just fine as switches that way.


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## Nelson (Dec 17, 2016)

We use multi-color LED lights on our Christmas tree. I think we are going on 3 years now with the same set of lights and so far so good. The multi-color lights are definitely a "cooler" light - not nearly as "warm" as the traditional.


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## woodgeek (Dec 18, 2016)

I just dropped $34 for the current fad laser display:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01GOQNXQG/?tag=hearthamazon-20

Discussed here: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/13/fashion/star-shower-laser-motion-christmas-holiday-lights.html

We don't care for how these look projected on the side of the house, but we shine them on our bare tree branches, which makes for a lovely lighting effect.  

Con: Our pup loves to chase laser pointers, when he saw this out the window, he wouldn't stop barking at it...at 6AM.


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## begreen (Dec 18, 2016)

I'm intrigued by the idea but I can't say I like the look from what I've seen so far. Would like to see it done on trees only. That may work. It looks like a cheesy disco display when projected on the sides of buildings. Do they make these units to project white instead of red and green?


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## woodgeek (Dec 18, 2016)

begreen said:


> I'm intrigued by the idea but I can't say I like the look from what I've seen so far. Would like to see it done on trees only. That may work. It looks like a cheesy disco display when projected on the sides of buildings. Do they make these units to project white instead of red and green?



No white lasers (monochromatic).  Since the pattern generators are diffractive, if you made an RGB 'laser' they would get separated so...no.

I wanted blue (for Hannukah) but they start at $150 for now....I'll wait and be happy with green.  

take a look, starting at 10:30 for branch effect.  

I had better luck with the cheaper unit, and got a 'motion' unit:


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## begreen (Dec 18, 2016)

Seems like the laser christmas lights is better for large areas or big trees. But looks like I should pass. We are just 5 miles from SeaTac airport. Shining it at a tree means that there will be many beams not hitting the tree and heading into the sky. Too bad, we have some nice big trees including an 80 ft redwood in the front yard.


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## semipro (Dec 18, 2016)

I can't help but wonder if the FAA isn't going to have a problem with these things impairing pilot vision.

Edit: Funny, I wrote this as begreen was writing about being near an airport.


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## woodgeek (Dec 18, 2016)

IMO, there is zero issue with conventional laser pointers and aircraft.  The issue was high power green laser 'pointers' that went on sale a few years back that were so powerful (up to 100x brighter than a normal pointer) that they could light items on fire, and were too bright to be used as actual indoor pointers (they were painful).

In the 'star shower' case, each sub-bean is significantly less bright than a normal laser pointer (i.e. quite invisible in the daytime).  Moreover, I noticed that each of them has a slightly converging quality with a weak focus at several meters....at aircraft altitude, these beams would be several meters across.


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## Sprinter (Dec 18, 2016)

Last night we went to a Christmas program and they were using something similar indoors to project star-like pattern to the front where the program action was.  It was a nice effect and the stars were about the right distance apart.  They were blue, but it looked like they covered up part of it either for colors or to spread the pattern.

Apparently,  these most popular projectors do have a warning not to use them within 11.5 miles of an airport.  There apparently have been three reported incidents from pilots from these devices.  If you can be sure that the beams are not pointed upward, they shouldn't be a problem.  Maybe just mount it high enough to point horizontally or something.  Still, the FAA is nervous about them.  Way too many irresponsible people out there.

This is a very good article on laser safety I came across that addresses these devices:   http://www.laserpointersafety.com/news/news/other-news_files/tag-star-shower.php#on


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## woodgeek (Dec 18, 2016)

Nice link.  Reading down, lab tests suggest that the (brighter) green laser 'beamlets' could cause 'glare' issues at up to 269 ft, and were eye safe at all distances.  This jibes with my own expectations.


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## Sprinter (Dec 18, 2016)

woodgeek said:


> Nice link.  Reading down, lab tests suggest that the (brighter) green laser 'beamlets' could cause 'glare' issues at up to 269 ft, and were eye safe at all distances.  This jibes with my own expectations.


Frankly, I don't know what to think about the potential hazards of theses things.  I use a common  green pointer sometimes to point out certain astronomical objects to people because the green beam at that wavelength is so nicely visible straight out.  It's like it's really pointing right at something light years away.   But I'm aware of any aircraft (easy at night), and having flown quite a bit as a private pilot (many years ago) I'm sensitive to it, and the power of these are quite low.

Personally, I'm more concerned about the irresponsible people using the high power lasers, often intentionally.   Green is the eye's most sensitive color which may contribute to the glare problem mentioned.  Obviously, any such devices should not be used any where near an airport.  Flying on autopilot  and half asleep (not that I ever was!) is one thing, but if you are on an ILS approach or something, any distraction like that could have very unfortunate consequences.

Having said all that, I think that assuming you are a responsible person, not near an airport, and use one of these things in such a way that the beams are pointing down, horizontal, or fully on an object like a house, you should be okay IMO.

Still, be aware that the FAA is concerned, and nervous pilots may report things that could cause a knock on your door.


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