# Cheep boilers



## wolfkiller (Feb 12, 2008)

I am shoping for a indoor wood fired boiler. I have looked at Greenwood and orlan. Then I saw the Royall 6130 and the LiL' powerhouse on ebay for half the cost of the other 2. I am sure there is a reason but can someone clue me in on what it is. b.t.w. It was -55 here two days ago and I am gonna go broke buying heating oil.


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## wdc1160 (Feb 12, 2008)

wolfkiller said:
			
		

> I am shoping for a indoor wood fired boiler. I have looked at Greenwood and orlan. Then I saw the Royall 6130 and the LiL' powerhouse on ebay for half the cost of the other 2. I am sure there is a reason but can someone clue me in on what it is. b.t.w. It was -55 here two days ago and I am gonna go broke buying heating oil.



Well, the royal, greenwood, and orlan EKO line are all quite different in concept and design.  
The greenwood is a nat draft gasser which makes use of a large amount of refractory material.
The Royal doesn't support regulated gassification IE it isn't a technical gassifier.  It is a wood fueled boiler which has a draft blower.
The EKO has a forced draft.  Supports gassification by design.  Small refractory -  Low mass.

Price
GW 100 = 9K
RL 6130 = 3.8K
EKO 25 = 3.8K

All about the same size

As for the lil powerhouse.  I don't know much about them.   

Some of the other guys will weight in with pros and cons.


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## Eric Johnson (Feb 12, 2008)

I had a Royall 6150 for about 4 heating seasons. It was a well-built boiler and it performed well, except that it smoked pretty bad at the wrong times and consumed a lot more wood than I was comfortable with. It was basically an indoor OWB.

I replaced it with the Orlan EKO 60 and couldn't be happier.

In general, you can expect to burn half as much wood with a gasifier like the EKO, and produce no visible smoke 95% of the time.

If you want to save money on the initial cost and you want to stay warm, the Royall is a good choice. If you dont' mind spending more upfront to save on firewood and maintain peace with your neighbors, I'd seriously consider one of the gasifier alternatives.


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## wolfkiller (Feb 14, 2008)

Is there any good reason to spend the money on the Greenwood or is the eko just as good of boiler?


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## BrownianHeatingTech (Feb 14, 2008)

wolfkiller said:
			
		

> Is there any good reason to spend the money on the Greenwood or is the eko just as good of boiler?



A number of people are quite happy with EKO's, including several on this forum.

If you search this forum for "Greenwood," I expect you will be able to make up your mind as to the quality of those units.  If I wanted a boiler of that design, I would get one directly from Seton, or one of the other manufacturers using his design.

Econoburn (bottom banner on this page) makes a nice gasifier as well.  It's "the Cadillac of wood boilers" in my opinion (and that of most others who see them), but it does command a higher price than the EKO.

In non-gasifying wood boilers, I'd also suggest taking a look at the Biasi 3Wood boiler.  It's a very nice unit, and not overly expensive.

Joe


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## wolfkiller (Feb 14, 2008)

Well, the royal, greenwood, and orlan EKO line are all quite different in concept and design.  
The greenwood is a nat draft gasser which makes use of a large amount of refractory material. 
The Royal doesn’t support regulated gassification IE it isn’t a technical gassifier.  It is a wood fueled boiler which has a draft blower. 
The EKO has a forced draft.  Supports gassification by design.  Small refractory - Low mass. 

Price 
GW 100 = 9K 
RL 6130 = 3.8K 
EKO 25 = 3.8K 

were did you see a EKO 25 for 3.8k? I can only find them for about 5800.


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## wdc1160 (Feb 14, 2008)

Zenon's wife quoted me that 6 weeks ago.  alternativeheatingsystems.com


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## raybonz (Feb 14, 2008)

Eric Johnson said:
			
		

> I had a Royall 6150 for about 4 heating seasons. It was a well-built boiler and it performed well, except that it smoked pretty bad at the wrong times and consumed a lot more wood than I was comfortable with. It was basically an indoor OWB.
> 
> I replaced it with the Orlan EKO 60 and couldn't be happier.
> 
> ...



Hi Eric,
I find wood boilers interesting and wondered what something like costs and how much wood do they consume in a year? Can it use oil as a backup in the event you aren't there? Does it switch to oil automatically? Sorry about all the questions just trying to educate myself..

Ray


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## Eric Johnson (Feb 14, 2008)

We like questions.

The boiler is going to run $5,000 plus, plus the cost of installation, which is pretty much the same whether you go with a gasifier or not. Some of our members, like nofossil, heat big houses in very cold climates on less than 5 cords per season. I have a big, old house in a cold climate, and I'm still working on my first season, but I would estimate my usage will settle into around 10 cords per year. Remember, that's keeping the house at around 75 all winter long and heating all our domestic hot water.

You'll always use more fuel with central heat, but you get it back in comfort and convenience.

You can set any wood-fired central heating system to work in tandem with a fossil-fuel backup. It's all in the piping and controls.


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## ISeeDeadBTUs (Feb 14, 2008)

wolfkiller said:
			
		

> It was -55 here two days ago and I am gonna go broke buying heating oil.



Slip out tonight and drill a hole in that pipeline. I doubt that ever notice :cheese: 

I would seriously NOT shop based on price. It's too late in the heating season to try to save on this years oil. Ask the questions, do the research, and get realistic about

1)Your wood supply
2)The work you can/want to do to see this through

There is no 'BEST' unit. But there probably is a 'BEST FOR YOUR CIRCUMSTANCES' 

Never forget. . . .Salesmen Lie :coolhmm:


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## Burnt (Feb 27, 2008)

Eric Johnson said:
			
		

> We like questions.
> 
> The boiler is going to run $5,000 plus, plus the cost of installation, which is pretty much the same whether you go with a gasifier or not. Some of our members, like nofossil, heat big houses in very cold climates on less than 5 cords per season. I have a big, old house in a cold climate, and I'm still working on my first season, but I would estimate my usage will settle into around 10 cords per year. Remember, that's keeping the house at around 75 all winter long and heating all our domestic hot water.
> 
> ...



10 cords per year.  Log cord or face cord?  Thanks


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## Eric Johnson (Feb 27, 2008)

Ten full cords. I burned 15 to 20 with the Royall, and had a cold house when it was around zero.


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## Burnt (Mar 2, 2008)

That is a disappointment.  I had hoped a gassifier would be a big saver.  I would think you could use a standard wood furnace in the basement and do that well?  I used to heat a two story house with 5 full cords a year with a fireplace insert.  Do you know other people with gassifiers that burn less?  I am thinking of switching from a corn boiler to a wood gassifier.  Thanks


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## leaddog (Mar 2, 2008)

Burnt said:
			
		

> That is a disappointment.  I had hoped a gassifier would be a big saver.  I would think you could use a standard wood furnace in the basement and do that well?  I used to heat a two story house with 5 full cords a year with a fireplace insert.  Do you know other people with gassifiers that burn less?  I am thinking of switching from a corn boiler to a wood gassifier.  Thanks



You can't go by what other people burn because there is to many variables. A gasifier will burn less that a non gasifier if burnt right as it will burn the smoke that goes up the stack with other units. That said you might burn more than you did with the fireplace unit because you will want to heat your DHW and such and run it longer in the year and have more Happy Wife Factor with the whole house at a more even temp. I've seen some cat stoves that burn very little wood but you are talking different uses and situations.
My take on the situation is if you are going to burn wood you will almost ALLWAYS be ahead with a gasifier with storage.
leaddog


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## Eric Johnson (Mar 2, 2008)

One of our members, nofossil, heats a bigger house than mine (newer, but bigger) and a hot tub with around 4 full cords per year in northern Vermont. So, like leaddog says, you can't really judge from other people's consumption. One good rule of thumb is that with a gasifier you'll probably burn about half as much wood (to get the same amount of heat) as you would (or did) with a conventional wood-fired boiler, as per my example.


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## Burnt (Mar 5, 2008)

Did you ever just burn fossil fuel in your current house?  If so, how much?  Boiler or furnace?
Thanks for your help.
Burnt


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## Eric Johnson (Mar 5, 2008)

I have a natural gas boiler and a natural gas clothes dryer. The boiler has been shut off since September. I don't plan to turn it back on again, except for an annual test, and perhaps if we go in vacation in the winter or are otherwise unable to tend the EKO.


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## Burnt (Mar 16, 2008)

No. Sorry.  I mean how much fossil fuel would/did you use without wood?  That would give me an idea of your heat need.  

I know a fellow who has a Czech gassification boiler (less money) that works great.  No water storage.  Is that very unusual getting by with no storage?  He probably has 50 gallons in the system.  Two loops, one for in floor and one for forced air.

Thanks


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## Eric Johnson (Mar 16, 2008)

I don't know what our natural gas usage would be without the wood, since we've burned wood pretty much exclusively since 2005. In 2003/2004, the first winter we spent in this house, our biggest monthly gas bill was around $800, and that was keeping the place pretty cool (probably 65 on average). And, that was before a big spike in natural gas prices. So I'm guessing that we'd be looking at peak gas bills of somewhere around $1,500 per month at current prices, though that's just a WAG on my part.

The Czech gasification boilers, from what I hear (Atmos, PK Pryo, etc.) are very nice. I am currently running without storage and it works fine. I tend to build smaller fires more frequently in an attempt to match our heat load, which I believe is less efficient than running at capacity at stashing the heat in a tank. And my system is not all that efficient to begin with, considering the age of the house (150 years), the piping arrangement (series between the gasification boiler and the gas boiler) and cast iron radiators. But we've been keeping the house at between 75 and 80 all winter long (plus unlimited DHW) with no smoke and haven't burned any gas, so it's all good. Firewood free for the labor. Pretty quick payback, I think.

For three seasons we heated with an old Royall 6150 (built in Elroy, WI), but it produced too much smoke and couldn't keep up when temps were in the single digits and colder. The EKO works great in all weather, but really shines when it's below zero. Feels like taking the Ferrari out on the Autobahn, or so I imagine.


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## berlin (Mar 17, 2008)

" I am thinking of switching from a corn boiler to a wood gassifier.  Thanks"

If you are looking to save money, you might look into coal.


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## antos_ketcham (Mar 17, 2008)

Just some statistics for the mix. 

I paid roughly 6K for my Greenwood 100. Not 9K as suggested in another post - perhaps they meant 9k for the 200?

When the winter finally wraps up I expect I will have burned around 8 cords of wood. I think I'll aim towards planning on 10 a year just to be on the safe side. 

I am heating a small (1,100 square feet) but not very thermally efficient log cabin. I plan to add radiators to the basement next winter. 

We have been very warm consistently all winter. Wife keeps the thermostat at 70-71. Plus our DHW has never been hotter and it doesn't run out. 

Pete


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## firebird400 (Mar 17, 2008)

hi doyou know what the Biasi 3Wood boiler cost approx?looking tohad a wood boiler like the gasifers but not in my buget right now  it looks like a good design with the 3 pass was also looking at the logwood  i think i like the biasi better with the 3 pass more like the new oil and gas boilers   thanks  ray


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## sparke (Mar 17, 2008)

I looked into a Biasi a while ago.  I asked the dealer what the burn time was and he said about 4 hours...  Maybe it was a different model?  I do not know but I would check into that before you purchase...   For the $$  that boiler costs new , you may be well on your way to a gassifier...


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## rkusek (Mar 19, 2008)

Are you sure about that quote?  The website alternativeheatingsystems.com only appears to sell the Wood Gun model.  If anyone has an EKO 25 for $3800, I will pick it up tomorrow.


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## tug hill rook (Mar 20, 2008)

Pete Antos-Ketcham said:
			
		

> Just some statistics for the mix.
> 
> I paid roughly 6K for my Greenwood 100. Not 9K as suggested in another post - perhaps they meant 9k for the 200?
> 
> ...


 Pete, do you have storage?


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## BrownianHeatingTech (Apr 8, 2008)

firebird400 said:
			
		

> hi doyou know what the Biasi 3Wood boiler cost approx?looking tohad a wood boiler like the gasifers but not in my buget right now  it looks like a good design with the 3 pass was also looking at the logwood  i think i like the biasi better with the 3 pass more like the new oil and gas boilers   thanks  ray



Give QHT a call, and they can tell you who sells the boilers in your area...

The Biasi is a very nice boiler.  Not a gasifier, but very nice.

Joe


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