# Heat pump water heater



## CHeath (Feb 7, 2017)

Hey guys, what are your thoughts on this? Im currently heating with electric and I want to get my energy bill down of course but I also want to help out with the environment. I have no solar tho it is in a future plan and I have looked at both a solar batch and evacuated tube setup but dont really want to pay for the install. The best bet would be a sun bandit setup with panels and a hyrbrid tank but oh my lord, the cost is unreal. $9999 installed. I do not think so! The ROI would be never. 

Thanks in advance.


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## woodgeek (Feb 7, 2017)

Solar hot water is dead.  IF you have a system, use it.  If you don't have one, forget about it.

As your title suggests HPWHs are where its at.  Find a good location (semi-conditioned basement or garage) where it never gets too cold, and a little noise is not going to bother anyone, and go for it.  Solar HW has about 50% capacity factor....about half of the water is heated by an electrical coil.  That's like a water heater with an energy factor EF=2.

You can get a HPWH with an EF of 3.5...it uses a little over _half_ the electricity of a typical solar HW system, per gallon of hot water.  

If you want to go solar, and have a good site, put up PV.  IF you are in the shade, try to buy wind power from your local (state level) grid, or found a solar garden in your community, where a lot of shady people can put their panels on a state or town owned brownfield.


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## peakbagger (Feb 7, 2017)

Boy this Sun Bandit scam seems to be popping up more and more.  I agree tube based collectors are dinosaurs. I have a set and they work well but I would not recommend it as the up front cost is steep.  The best approach is heat pump hot water heater as long as you have a warm basement. Hard to beat this deal, http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Heat-Pu...888031?hash=item3f7495675f:g:RMQAAOSwj0NUa3~6 if you already have a good tank. (He happens to be a member of Hearth.com). Some one could home brew a Sun Bandit type setup by disconnecting the lower element on a standard heater and hooking it up to a couple of solar panels. Heating elements don't care if they are AC or DC so all you need is beefy DC relay to switch the PV on and off. (note the insurance company and the building inspector will  frown on this).

The fundamental problem is that typically your need for hot water doesn't line up with when the sun is out. I produce scalding hot water all summer and part of the spring and the fall but don't use much of it. When I really need it is shoulder season and that when the sun isn't reliable. Pretty universally the new recommendation is a net metered grid tied PV system with a couple of extra panels to feed a  HPHWHtr. The Sun Bandit set up is an over priced scam. You can put in 3.5 to 4 KW of PV system for the same price and get far a better payback.


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## CHeath (Feb 7, 2017)

Would be a great idea but my electric heater is getting ready to turn the big 18! Lol


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## maple1 (Feb 9, 2017)

Yeah, forget solar.

Might come down to incentives in your area & your hot water usage on the HPWH decision.

In our case, heating our DHW with an ordinary 80 gallon electric tank heater only costs us in the $20-25/mo range, with 0.18/kwh electricity. And we only use it around half the year (heats by wood in heating season). We have no incentives. And don't dehumidify. So hard to justify springing the extra cost of HPWH over resistance electric, for us.


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## Tegbert (Feb 9, 2017)

maple1 said:


> Yeah, forget solar.
> 
> Might come down to incentives in your area & your hot water usage on the HPWH decision.
> 
> In our case, heating our DHW with an ordinary 80 gallon electric tank heater only costs us in the $20-25/mo range, with 0.18/kwh electricity. And we only use it around half the year (heats by wood in heating season). We have no incentives. And don't dehumidify. So hard to justify springing the extra cost of HPWH over resistance electric, for us.



Man I saved 30-35 dollars a month switching to a hpwh a 50 gallon one at that. I wish it only used 20-25 a month and we pay .09/kWh.  We have a 500 dollar rebate through the utility for them though and possibly another $300 when we do our taxes so all in all I paid pretty much nothing for it. 


Lopi Rockport


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## CHeath (Feb 9, 2017)

man that sounds awesome! My Duke energy costs are also .09/Kwh and I have a 2000 sq foot home with 5 people. The bill was not to bad for Jan at $176 but also in Jan, I changed out every single light to LED and installed a smart thermostat, smart power strips all throughout and we have been very intentional starting at the first of the year with conservation. Not only with that, but the water as well. So far Feb has been very mild here is the SE. Im hoping to see $150 but I am fore sure leaning against the HPWH for sure. Not sure if the 50 gallon would do the trick. I heard that the 80 runs less because of the need for more cold water coming in. Any idea on that? there is also a $350 from Duke on this unit. Not sure about the state of NC but I didnt see any on Energy.gov's site.


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## cableman (Feb 9, 2017)

So far im happy with the geospring. I have an 80gal and have never run out of hot water. It does cool my basement to 56* but once off that goes back up to 57*/58* during winter. Winter use in heat pump mode it usually runs for 5/6hrs to recover, warmer months less.
Not really sure what its costing me to run, my bill has gone up but we have the highest rates up here on longisland.
I can say i did fill up my oil tank april 2016 and have 5/8th tank left.


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## Tegbert (Feb 9, 2017)

CHeath said:


> man that sounds awesome! My Duke energy costs are also .09/Kwh and I have a 2000 sq foot home with 5 people. The bill was not to bad for Jan at $176 but also in Jan, I changed out every single light to LED and installed a smart thermostat, smart power strips all throughout and we have been very intentional starting at the first of the year with conservation. Not only with that, but the water as well. So far Feb has been very mild here is the SE. Im hoping to see $150 but I am fore sure leaning against the HPWH for sure. Not sure if the 50 gallon would do the trick. I heard that the 80 runs less because of the need for more cold water coming in. Any idea on that? there is also a $350 from Duke on this unit. Not sure about the state of NC but I didnt see any on Energy.gov's site.



The energy star label on ge website says the 80 uses $7 more per year. So not a huge difference. I couldn't fit the 80 in my current spot so 50 it is. The only time I run out of hot water is when the wife literally takes showers with no cold mixing at all. Drains the whole thing. The federal tax credit supposedly ended December 2016. 


Lopi Rockport


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## maple1 (Feb 9, 2017)

Tegbert said:


> Man I saved 30-35 dollars a month switching to a hpwh a 50 gallon one at that. I wish it only used 20-25 a month and we pay .09/kWh.  We have a 500 dollar rebate through the utility for them though and possibly another $300 when we do our taxes so all in all I paid pretty much nothing for it.
> 
> 
> Lopi Rockport



You must use a lot of hot water? 

Good deal on the incentives though - puts it pretty close to 'no brainer' territory


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## Tegbert (Feb 9, 2017)

maple1 said:


> You must use a lot of hot water?
> 
> Good deal on the incentives though - puts it pretty close to 'no brainer' territory



I don't the wife does but even then our old one was very inefficient and was rated at almost $500 a year cost. 


Lopi Rockport


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## maple1 (Feb 9, 2017)

There also further things to do to help the juice bill - get the heater up on a stand, more insulation all around it (and between it & the stand), extra heat traps. I also did all of that, likely helped.


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## woodgeek (Feb 9, 2017)

To the OP, with 5 people just get the 80 HPWH.  Recovery is SLOW (but uses very little juice) so you want to have as much HW standing by to meet your demand (like 5 showers in a row).  My daughter can run mine down after a 60-70+ minute shower (teens  ).  Since the grownups seem to shower in 10-15 minutes, I figure I have 4-5 back to back or simultaneous showers, then need 6 hours to recover.

I have (nice) low flow shower heads, 2 gpm I think.

I'm guessing you are spooked by the internet troll comments on the geosprings, esp from 5 years ago.  Don't be.  Get a warranty, Get an extended warranty.  Register it (send in the damned card).  And then save money.

The tech is mature and dead simple...basically its like a refrigerator compressor or AC window unit hardware wise...a tank and a compressor and a thermostat and a fan.


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## CHeath (Feb 9, 2017)

Tegbert said:


> I don't the wife does but even then our old one was very inefficient and was rated at almost $500 a year cost.
> 
> 
> Lopi Rockport



so does my electric one. right on the sticker. To be more realistic, Im thinking $15-$20 per month but Ill take it for sure.


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## CHeath (Feb 9, 2017)

woodgeek said:


> To the OP, with 5 people just get the 80 HPWH.  Recovery is SLOW (but uses very little juice) so you want to have as much HW standing by to meet your demand (like 5 showers in a row).  My daughter can run mine down after a 60-70+ minute shower (teens  ).  Since the grownups seem to shower in 10-15 minutes, I figure I have 4-5 back to back or simultaneous showers, then need 6 hours to recover.
> 
> I have (nice) low flow shower heads, 2 gpm I think.
> 
> ...



I have 3 kids but they are on board with energy and water consumption already so thats good. We do 2 gallon shower heads also. Im going with the 50 if its qualifies for the Duke incentive.


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## STIHLY DAN (Feb 10, 2017)

Tegbert said:


> The energy star label on ge website says the 80 uses $7 more per year. So not a huge difference. I couldn't fit the 80 in my current spot so 50 it is. The only time I run out of hot water is when the wife literally takes showers with no cold mixing at all. Drains the whole thing. The federal tax credit supposedly ended December 2016.
> 
> 
> Lopi Rockport



Plumb in a mixing valve at your hot water outlet. Set the tank to 140* set valve to 125* this will convert your 50 gal into an 80 gal.


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## woodgeek (Feb 10, 2017)

STIHLY DAN said:


> Plumb in a mixing valve at your hot water outlet. Set the tank to 140* set valve to 125* this will convert your 50 gal into an 80 gal.



A reduce your EF significantly.  The COP on a HPWH is highly temp rise dependent.  The 80 at 125 would use less energy, even with tank losses.

I just hate mixing valves...they tend to cause those cold blasts.  Awesome tech.


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## STIHLY DAN (Feb 10, 2017)

woodgeek said:


> A reduce your EF significantly.  The COP on a HPWH is highly temp rise dependent.  The 80 at 125 would use less energy, even with tank losses.
> 
> I just hate mixing valves...they tend to cause those cold blasts.  Awesome tech.



That is true but he could not fit an 80 and purchased a 50. Its still much more efficient at 140 than an electric.


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## cableman (Feb 11, 2017)

I have to back off the hot while showering with set temp at 120*. I think kids turn it all the way up cause they are not as close to the shower head.
Im gonna experiment with lowering their shower head via extension. Maybe, just maybe the little buggers will turn back on some hot!


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## maple1 (Feb 11, 2017)

Can available HPWHs actually get hot enough to need a mixing valve? I was under the impression they didn't get much hotter than 120 at most, maybe 130? They don't really extend tank volume more than mixing that would be done at the taps - temp out of the shower head would be the same, just gets mixed in a different spot.


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## semipro (Feb 11, 2017)

woodgeek said:


> My daughter can run mine down after a 60-70+ minute shower (teens  )


That would send me over the edge. 
After my son's go past 10 minutes in the shower I'm headed for the basement to turn off the supply valve at the water heater.


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## STIHLY DAN (Feb 13, 2017)

maple1 said:


> Can available HPWHs actually get hot enough to need a mixing valve? I was under the impression they didn't get much hotter than 120 at most, maybe 130? They don't really extend tank volume more than mixing that would be done at the taps - temp out of the shower head would be the same, just gets mixed in a different spot.



Yes GE is 140* and there is one out there that goes to 150* can't remember the make. Yes that is true but it gives the potential for scalding. In the summer I have mine at 140* mixed to 116* In the winter I turn it down to 125* because I have a tempering tank off the furnace to supplement.


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## Junebug90 (Mar 15, 2017)

I just put in a rhem hybrid 50 gallon water heater.  So far it's been great.  Have it in heat pump mode and set to 115 and have had no problems.  Cost 1k to buy put it in myself and if it uses what it says Vs what my old water heater says it uses I'm going to save about 500 a year.  So I'm looking good forward to that.  Also it has a 70gal 1st hr rate my old one was 43gal so win win win

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk


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## cableman (Mar 15, 2017)

Sounds good. Isn't 115* a little low, id go 120*


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## Junebug90 (Mar 15, 2017)

cableman said:


> Sounds good. Isn't 115* a little low, id go 120*


We started there as the default setting. It was a little hot as we have little ones. Tried 118. Then 115.  It seems to be good for us where I can still steam up the bathroom but do they have to worry if my 3yo turns it on all hot.  Haven't ran out of hot water yet..... give it 10 years when there will be 2 teen age girls.... haha

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk


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## semipro (Mar 15, 2017)

Watch out going too low on the temp.
https://www.osha.gov/dts/osta/otm/legionnaires/faq.html


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## Rearscreen (Mar 27, 2017)

Isn't the GeoSpring history? I have one and it works fine but I believe GE discontinued it? I'm about to install another brand for my brother in a few weeks and will get to see that one in operation.


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## begreen (Mar 27, 2017)

Rearscreen said:


> Isn't the GeoSpring history? I have one and it works fine but I believe GE discontinued it? I'm about to install another brand for my brother in a few weeks and will get to see that one in operation.


Which brand?


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## Rearscreen (Mar 27, 2017)

I don't know which brand as it's yet to be delivered but will post as soon as it arrives...


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## Rearscreen (Mar 28, 2017)

Ok, so it's a Rheem that was delivered at my brothers new house today. (I personally own the now discontinued GE heat pump HWH at my house). Today I open up the electrical connection box and see to my horror,  #10 wire! Wait, isn't this supposed to be efficient? A 220 30 amp breaker to a domestic HWH? Whatever...mine draws less power and requires less power apparently with a 20 amp 220 feed. But wait again, does it draw more power over less time? My head is spinning and I have to re-run a larger wire and breaker to feed this beast. On demands require 90 amps BUT is more efficient as the time is only as demanded....technology run amok...way too smart for me little pea brain.....


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## cableman (Mar 28, 2017)

I think the geospring has to be 10awg 30amp breaker also, thats how i ran mine.

 It has to be able to handle the higest amp draw which is from the electric heating element, 4500w or so. Heat pump only mode is the energy saver at somewhere around 500w.


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## woodgeek (Mar 29, 2017)

Rearscreen said:


> Ok, so it's a Rheem that was delivered at my brothers new house today. (I personally own the now discontinued GE heat pump HWH at my house). Today I open up the electrical connection box and see to my horror,  #10 wire! Wait, isn't this supposed to be efficient? A 220 30 amp breaker to a domestic HWH? Whatever...mine draws less power and requires less power apparently with a 20 amp 220 feed. But wait again, does it draw more power over less time? My head is spinning and I have to re-run a larger wire and breaker to feed this beast. On demands require 90 amps BUT is more efficient as the time is only as demanded....technology run amok...way too smart for me little pea brain.....



@Rearscreen, the heavy wire is so that it has enough amperage to run in conventional mode...where it uses the same kind of element as every other electric HWH.  In HP mode, it uses far less amperage, and uses about *half* the electricity kWh per HW BTU delivered, relative to conventional or on-demand.


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## cableman (Mar 29, 2017)

Geosprings instructions pretty much say 10awg also...


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## begreen (Mar 29, 2017)

So today our electric company started offering a rebate on installation of one of these units. What is a good source for comparing recovery performance, reliability, noise, efficiency, etc.? I've found some reviews, from around 2014. Rheem was listed as a noisy unit by that site. The GeoSpring was among the quietest. 

 Tier 3 qualified products list attached.


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## Rearscreen (Mar 31, 2017)

cableman said:


> Geosprings instructions pretty much say 10awg also...


My error, just went to basement and it is #10 to 30 a 220 breaker. Thanks for keeping me on my toes cableman! I do recall swearing at GE by not giving me ANY room in the connection box....


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## Seasoned Oak (May 4, 2017)

maple1 said:


> Can available HPWHs actually get hot enough to need a mixing valve? I was under the impression they didn't get much hotter than 120 at most, maybe 130? They don't really extend tank volume more than mixing that would be done at the taps - temp out of the shower head would be the same, just gets mixed in a different spot.


I set my geospring  at 140  the highest setting mostly because it has a long recovery period. Still i sometimes have to change the mode to Heavy Demand which employs the heating elements and then it heats up very fast.  90 % of the time its in Heap pump only mode.


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## cableman (May 5, 2017)

I havnt run out of hot water yet on the 80gal. Some newer models offer 65gal, that prolly would have been a better option for me.

I lowered my kids shower head with some plastic extensions, this way the water is closer to their head making them use less hot water! Im surprised the wife didnt say anything about the look yet....


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## Seasoned Oak (May 7, 2017)

Heating your water with 500 watts instead of  4500 watts = priceless     And also very cost effective!


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## Brian26 (May 7, 2017)

Seasoned Oak said:


> Heating your water with 500 watts instead of  4500 watts = priceless     And also very cost effective!



Especially when you have solar panels...


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## Highbeam (May 9, 2017)

Seasoned Oak said:


> Heating your water with 500 watts instead of  4500 watts = priceless     And also very cost effective!



Not if the 500 watt load runs 10 times as long! I'm sure it doesn't but my little straight electric water heater only runs the 4500 watt element for a short amount of time to recover.


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## Brian26 (May 20, 2017)

Highbeam said:


> Not if the 500 watt load runs 10 times as long! I'm sure it doesn't but my little straight electric water heater only runs the 4500 watt element for a short amount of time to recover.



I have done extensive electricity monitoring on mine including running my Geospring in element only mode. You are using around 70% more electricity to heat your hot water than a hpwh. Perhaps you have cheap power there and its not a big deal. 

Mine ran for about an hour last night to recover from the dishwasher and my shower.


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## velvetfoot (May 20, 2017)

Bear in mind you KNOW when your heat pump water heater is running.  I once forgot to shut the breaker on the straight electric heater after boiler startup and it was months before I noticed.


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## Highbeam (May 20, 2017)

velvetfoot said:


> Bear in mind you KNOW when your heat pump water heater is running.  I once forgot to shut the breaker on the straight electric heater after boiler startup and it was months before I noticed.



And that is the biggest reason I don't have a hpwh. I have no basement or garage to put the noisy thing! Current tank heater is in the hall closet. 

I don't really expect the tank mounted hpwh to be a lasting tech. The split systems are coming.


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## velvetfoot (May 20, 2017)

It's about the time of year I should start up the hp water heater.  I'm not totally convinced the hp's tendency to reduce the basement temperature as well as some humidity does a net good as far as moisture condensation goes.  Plus, my well insulated 120 gal reverse indirect equipped boiler does not come on that much, and throw in the cheaper oil now...


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## Junebug90 (Sep 17, 2017)

So far with our rhem heat pump water heater we have saved about 25% in electricity compared to a 1994 water heater.  The noise isn't bad. Only notice it in the basement. No different than a fridge.  Also I routed the cold air output to the cold air return on our hvac. for summer. Then winter the cold air is vented outside.  Has worked pretty well.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk


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## woodgeek (Sep 17, 2017)

Junebug90 said:


> So far with our rhem heat pump water heater we have saved about 25% in electricity compared to a 1994 water heater.  The noise isn't bad. Only notice it in the basement. No different than a fridge.  Also I routed the cold air output to the cold air return on our hvac. for summer. Then winter the cold air is vented outside.  Has worked pretty well.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk



It is very likely not saving you energy to vent the cold exhaust of the Rheem unit outside IF the air outside is colder.  You will be drawing colder air from the outside into your living space (to make up the missing air you exhausted) through other leaks in your house, and your furnace will need to work harder.  If you exhaust into your conditioned space in the winter, while your furnace will still need to make up some of the BTUs that are going to heating water...it will be fewer BTUs than in the exhaust scheme.


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## woodgeek (Sep 17, 2017)

My news from the HPWH front.

I am past the fifth anniversary of putting mine in and scrapping my 'old unfaithful, tried to kill my kids' oil fired boiler.  Only problem I had years ago was I had the AO Smith unit 'brick' when its controller board died (a couple months after an epic power surge), and I replaced it myself after the maker fedexed me a replacement board for free.

I have found that the intake air filter (looks like the screens on window ACs) never gets dirty.  Thinking that it might restrict the airflow (the AOSmith unit has a bigger fan than most) I took it off and found that the unit got much quieter...can't hear the low 'warp engine' thrum in my living space when its running. Happy.

But at the same time my dehumidifier started working a lot harder (both are in a power ventilated, semi-conditioned attached garage). I figure that at much higher airflow, the air coil is running a lot closer to the air temp, and perhaps above the dew temp...limiting dehumidification. So I put the filter back on.

However, I plan to run without the filter in the cold weather (it gets down to the low 50s in there in Jan-Feb) and should get a little boost to COP and recovery, in addition to getting quieter warp engines.


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## Seasoned Oak (Sep 17, 2017)

woodgeek said:


> It is very likely not saving you energy to vent the cold exhaust of the Rheem unit outside IF the air outside is colder.  .


My HPWH only lowers the room temp 1 t o2 degrees while running and it quickly recovers when the WH is off. Plus the fact that any vent is notoriously leaky ,so the whole time its not in use its leaking/ drawing cold air into the house as well . Id never vent my WH to the outside.


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## WoodyIsGoody (Sep 17, 2017)

Seasoned Oak said:


> Id never vent my WH to the outside.



If you have a freezer nearby you could vent the cool air over the coils to increase efficiency


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## Seasoned Oak (Sep 17, 2017)

The cool air coming from the HPWH is welcome in the summer  and in winter that area is usually around 80 degrees with the stoker going or 90 degrees if the wood stove is going so no need to vent the cool air.


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## STIHLY DAN (Sep 17, 2017)

woodgeek said:


> My news from the HPWH front.
> 
> I am past the fifth anniversary of putting mine in and scrapping my 'old unfaithful, tried to kill my kids' oil fired boiler.  Only problem I had years ago was I had the AO Smith unit 'brick' when its controller board died (a couple months after an epic power surge), and I replaced it myself after the maker fedexed me a replacement board for free.
> 
> ...



That is a short term fix unless you have the ability to clean the evap coil yourself. I cleaned mine this spring and it was very easy to do.


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## woodgeek (Sep 18, 2017)

I have access to the coil...and it and the screen/filter both look like new (clean) after 5 years.


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## velvetfoot (Sep 18, 2017)

Seasoned Oak said:


> The cool air coming from the HPWH is welcome in the summer  and in winter that area is usually around 80 degrees with the stoker going or 90 degrees if the wood stove is going so no need to vent the cool air.


If you've got a coal boiler, why not use that for hot water in winter?  I turn my hpwh off in the winter.
edit: coal not oil


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## Ashful (Sep 18, 2017)

velvetfoot said:


> If you've got an oil boiler, why not use that for hot water in winter?  I turn my hpwh off in the winter.


Woodgeek and I had a little debate over this, sometime back.  It likely depends on your climate and building properties, but he argued that your sub-grade walls (around here they hold 53F below 4 feet) are still supplying enough heat to a typical uninsulated block (for our region) basement utility room, that the HPWH will be more efficient.  My thinking was that I have this hot boiler, anyway, and I might as well just switch to that for DHW.  In my case, I also have a basement rec. room adjacent to the boiler room, so the excess heat off the boiler isn't exactly wasted (it just cuts down on how much the baseboard runs down there).

I'm sad to report I still haven't installed an indirect HPWH (mostly because I haven't found one that fits my needs, yet) on my BoilerMate, to test and settle this debate.  If anyone has a link to an indirect HPWH with 3/4" ports, which does not rely on a restrictive coaxial dip tube to connect into the boilermate tank, it would put me a step closer.


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## velvetfoot (Sep 18, 2017)

Ashful said:


> Woodgeek and I had a little debate over this, sometime back.  It likely depends on your climate and building properties, but he argued that your sub-grade walls (around here they hold 53F below 4 feet) are still supplying enough heat to a typical uninsulated block (for our region) basement utility room, that the HPWH will be more efficient.  My thinking was that I have this hot boiler, anyway, and I might as well just switch to that for DHW.  In my case, I also have a basement rec. room adjacent to the boiler room, so the excess heat off the boiler isn't exactly wasted (it just cuts down on how much the baseboard runs down there).
> 
> I'm sad to report I still haven't installed an indirect HPWH (mostly because I haven't found one that fits my needs, yet) on my BoilerMate, to test and settle this debate.  If anyone has a link to an indirect HPWH with 3/4" ports, which does not rely on a restrictive coaxial dip tube to connect into the boilermate tank, it would put me a step closer.



I have a previous offering from tominmaine, a Nyletherm, for several years now, and it's tied into an electric water heater. Outlet from NT goes to WH drain, inlet from NT comes from tee connection on WH cold water pipe.  I don't know about 3/4" though.  This manner of connection does not interfere with flow through the water heater, far as I know.  It's a parallel operation thing.

It makes a fair amount of noise when running, but I don't live in the basement.

Tom is offering some other units for $300:
https://www.heatingstuffllc.com/store/?model_number=WH-6BX-1

I don't think the boilermate is insulated as well as a typical electric water heater though.


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## Seasoned Oak (Sep 18, 2017)

velvetfoot said:


> If you've got a coal boiler, why not use that for hot water in winter?  I turn my hpwh off in the winter.
> edit: coal not oil


I tried that but my HPWH started to leak. I find this a common occurrence as my regular electric WH in the past did not last more than 2 yrs if i left it go cold for months at a time. So now i never turn my WH  off. Even if i use the boiler for endless HW.  Very small leaks will evaporate quickly on a hot WH but on a cold one it will just rust to pieces. The  HPWH  may even be more cost effecient than the coal boiler anyway.


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## Seasoned Oak (Sep 18, 2017)

Any kind of Electric WH seem to last so much longer if you never turn em off .


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## Ashful (Sep 18, 2017)

velvetfoot said:


> I have a previous offering from tominmaine, a Nyletherm, for several years now, and it's tied into an electric water heater. Outlet from NT goes to WH drain, inlet from NT comes from tee connection on WH cold water pipe.  I don't know about 3/4" though.  This manner of connection does not interfere with flow through the water heater, far as I know.  It's a parallel operation thing.
> 
> It makes a fair amount of noise when running, but I don't live in the basement.
> 
> ...


Many of these units are designed as add-ons to electric water heaters, only, as they rely on the voltage supplied from the thermostat on the lower coil of the electric water heater.


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## velvetfoot (Sep 18, 2017)

Seasoned Oak said:


> Any kind of Electric WH seem to last so much longer if you never turn em off .


I didn't know that.


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## cableman (Oct 8, 2017)

Had an f11 or f13 code on my geospring the other day, scared me till i got closer and saw clean filter. 
Had my floors sanded in aug, thats gotta be the culprit. Never had much dust anytime ive looked.


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## Marshy (Nov 14, 2017)

I'm going into my 4th year with my GeoSpring. I heard this past summer GE  terminated the GeoSpring heater due to low sales. That is unfortunate and hope mine continues to operate 15 more years trouble free. 
Regarding the dehumidifying, I have mine drain into a 5 gal pail. I generally dump 4 gal every week in the summer. In the past Ive heated my house with a woodstove in the basement so I ran the HP mode year round. Even though it only drops the basement temp 1-2 degrees on average it feels like a lot more because of the humidity. I like mine a lot and have had no issues. I see Lowes only offers the AO Smith HPWH now...


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## 3fordasho (Nov 14, 2017)

Bought mine 3/15 from Lowes, Whirlpool version, I'd have to look at the manual to see who manufactured it. I use the heat pump only mode as that provides adequate hot water for the two of us.  I removed a propane fired unit as just the standing pilot was costing as much as the electricity we now use to run the HPWH.  Extended warranty was the same price as a regular water heater, cheap coverage out to 9 years or so. I installed in the same room as the wood furnace so plenty of excess heat in the winter for the heat pump to do its thing.  I will definitely buy another unless something better comes along.


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## Seasoned Oak (Nov 14, 2017)

velvetfoot said:


> If you've got a coal boiler, why not use that for hot water in winter?  I turn my hpwh off in the winter.
> edit: coal not oil


Another reason is the HPWH only cost about $10 a month to operate. My coal boiler cost $30 a month minimum just in idle mode to stay lit, before any load is put on it.  The coal boiler shines on cold days when gas or oil heat never seems to turn off . But late spring ,summer and early fall. it just idles too much to be practical to run. Especially just for hot water.  Yes id buy this HPWH all over again ,cant go wrong with an appliance that pays for itself with electric savings.


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## Brian26 (Nov 14, 2017)

I'm a little over 4 years on mine. It has been running pretty much nonstop in heat pump only mode. The only issues I had were the 2 electric elements disintegrated I believe from never actually using them. When it did a self check when I restarted it once it threw a code for bad elements. I pulled them out and they were shot. GE sent 2 new ones for free. The replacement ones were like twice the thickness.

The only other issue was I kept getting a filter warning though it was running fine and the filter was clean. The tech said they had a upgraded fan kit that greatly increased the airflow across the condenser. The fan was way more powerful then the original one. Mine has a build date of 03/2013.

My original cost was around $200 with local utility incentive and I caught it on sale.

CT residents can still get them for like half the cost as there is a $600 rebate. If you put in a CT zip code at lowes the AO Smith comes up as $799 with the instant $400 utility rebate offered on local purchase. Then there is an additional $200 one for CT residents. Anyone in surrounding states could drive here and get it $400 cheaper instantly. I tipped a member off from Long Island last year I believe and he took the ferry over and saved like $600 vs buying it on Long Island.


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## cableman (Nov 14, 2017)

Brian26 said:


> I tipped a member off from Long Island last year I believe and he took the ferry over and saved like $600 vs buying it on Long Island.



That was me! Thanks again!
Running good so far, still would like to do the yearly crack the bottom valve to let sediment out.
My nephew has an older geospring, threw a code and stop working. The company that took over sent him a bunch of stuff, ended up being the control board.
Good to see we still have good service to support any issues that may arise.


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## tom in maine (Nov 17, 2017)

Stand alone HPWH can be rewired to work with non-electric tanks. www.heatingstuffllc.com
has the Etek, which is what the Nyletherm was a copy of.
We sold out of the Nyletherms although we have some controls left.
The Etek is $365 delivered in the Continental US. If you need to rewire, I will send you the wiring diagram and the relay needed to do this.
You will have to add an aqustat to operate the heat pump by temperature.


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## sutphenj (Nov 17, 2017)

tom in maine said:


> Stand alone HPWH can be rewired to work with non-electric tanks. www.heatingstuffllc.com
> has the Etek, which is what the Nyletherm was a copy of.
> We sold out of the Nyletherms although we have some controls left.
> The Etek is $365 delivered in the Continental US. If you need to rewire, I will send you the wiring diagram and the relay needed to do this.
> You will have to add an aqustat to operate the heat pump by temperature.


Will the Etek work with marathon unit?


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## tom in maine (Nov 17, 2017)

Once rewired, yes.


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