# Making Solar Panels



## WARDNEAL (Feb 16, 2011)

I was looking to make some panels.

Has anyone done this?

Any tips?


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## WARDNEAL (Feb 16, 2011)

I will check them out.

Thanks Neal


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## James Gautsch (Feb 16, 2011)

Here's another.  http://www.jc-solarhomes.com/

Also a good forum dedicated to solar heat.  http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/SolarHeat/


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## markmudd (Feb 16, 2011)

http://www.aluminum-solar-absorbers.com/solar-absorbers-tips-tricks.html

Tom sullivan is a good resource from above site.  I built one last summer.   Pex using Tom sullivans absorber plates.  Works good.  I wish I would have used copper. 

Go for it


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## WES999 (Feb 17, 2011)

Yes

http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/WaterHeating/Metal1K/Metal1K.htm

Here is what I built.


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## sesmith (Feb 17, 2011)

1 more good one:

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/SimplySolar/

mine's the 2nd (larger) panel here:

http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/SpaceHeating/DownSpout/DownSpout.htm


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## benjamin (Feb 17, 2011)

builtitsolar is the place to go. lots of examples and a fair commentary of what looks like it will work and what won't. 

Be sure you think the whole system through so it makes sense as a system. There are way too many professionally installed systems with new quality components out there that don't work well because the system isn't designed well, even if all of the components and installation are top notch. Consider what you're trying to accomplish, simple unglazed panels might be best for keeping the chill and dampness out of a workshop, but if you're using lots of 160 water all summer then commercial panels with selective surface copper absorbers would make a lot of sense. 

Also don't expect a hot water system to provide heat, using the winter sun to heat water to DHW temperature and then using that to heat air at 70 is a serious bottleneck. Maybe there's a controller out there that will provide space heat in the morning and afternoon, and then restrict the flow (and allow the temp to rise) during the midday to produce DHW?


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## GaryGary (Feb 18, 2011)

benjamin said:
			
		

> builtitsolar is the place to go. lots of examples and a fair commentary of what looks like it will work and what won't.
> 
> Be sure you think the whole system through so it makes sense as a system. There are way too many professionally installed systems with new quality components out there that don't work well because the system isn't designed well, even if all of the components and installation are top notch. Consider what you're trying to accomplish, simple unglazed panels might be best for keeping the chill and dampness out of a workshop, but if you're using lots of 160 water all summer then commercial panels with selective surface copper absorbers would make a lot of sense.
> 
> Also don't expect a hot water system to provide heat, using the winter sun to heat water to DHW temperature and then using that to heat air at 70 is a serious bottleneck. Maybe there's a controller out there that will provide space heat in the morning and afternoon, and then restrict the flow (and allow the temp to rise) during the midday to produce DHW?



Hi -- this is Gary from Build It Solar.
I'm going to put up a whole new section on a project I've been working on that provides both water and space heating.  Its basically an offshoot off the $1K solar water heater -- it adds more collector area, more tank area, and a simple staple up floor loop for space heating.
Its still a very simple system -- about $2000 in my case with 100 sqft of collector (more collector would be better, but that is all I had room for).
This is not officially up yet, and is still a draft, so don't expect everything to be there, but here is a preview:
http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/SpaceHeating/DHWplusSpace/Main.htm

I'd be interested in hearing what anyone thinks of the system, and any comments or corrections on the writeup.

Gary


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## denjohn (Feb 20, 2011)

Thanks, Gary, for great write ups.


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## Wallyworld (Feb 20, 2011)

I made a 10 by 16 copper aluminum collector following what Gary did on www.builditsolar.com. Wasn't hard to do, took some time and so far its done what I wanted it to do and thats keep my shop from freezing. I'm using it on a radiant floor, 22 yds of concrete, 1100 feet of 1/2 pex buried in the crete. Lowest temp I've seen yet is 44 and this has been a rough winter for sunshine here in Maine, lots of snow, average temps. I have a stove for when I'm out there for any length of time but I've found when temps is around 50 I can do some work pretty comfortably for a hour or 2. Its obvious I need more collector to really do the job but I thinks its worked pretty well considering. I have $2500 or so in the whole setup including the pex in the floor. Lots of labor but I'm not a slave to heating my shop, and based on my experience with solar DHW in my house maintenance should be minimal. One thing I thought once february hit I'd see high temps  in my floor but it takes some energy to get 22 yds of 44 degree concrete up. My Delta T across the collector is usually 5 or 6 degrees.


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## GaryGary (Feb 20, 2011)

Wallyworld said:
			
		

> I made a 10 by 16 copper aluminum collector following what Gary did on www.builditsolar.com. Wasn't hard to do, took some time and so far its done what I wanted it to do and thats keep my shop from freezing. I'm using it on a radiant floor, 22 yds of concrete, 1100 feet of 1/2 pex buried in the crete. Lowest temp I've seen yet is 44 and this has been a rough winter for sunshine here in Maine, lots of snow, average temps. I have a stove for when I'm out there for any length of time but I've found when temps is around 50 I can do some work pretty comfortably for a hour or 2. Its obvious I need more collector to really do the job but I thinks its worked pretty well considering. I have $2500 or so in the whole setup including the pex in the floor. Lots of labor but I'm not a slave to heating my shop, and based on my experience with solar DHW in my house maintenance should be minimal. One thing I thought once february hit I'd see high temps  in my floor but it takes some energy to get 22 yds of 44 degree concrete up. My Delta T across the collector is usually 5 or 6 degrees.



Hi,
Its been a record breaking bad sun year for us in MT as well.

One thing you might think about if you have more room for collectors is to do some solar air heating collectors to supplement the water heating ones.  I think they would go together pretty well with the water heaters keeping the shop somewhat warm over the whole 24 hours, and the air collectors dumping in more heat just during the time you are in the shop in the daytime.  
This is what I use: http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/SpaceHeating/solar_barn_project.htm
Its hard to beat the BTU per $'s 

Gary


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## benjamin (Feb 20, 2011)

Wallyworld said:
			
		

> I made a 10 by 16 copper aluminum collector following what Gary did on www.builditsolar.com. Wasn't hard to do, took some time and so far its done what I wanted it to do and thats keep my shop from freezing. I'm using it on a radiant floor, 22 yds of concrete, 1100 feet of 1/2 pex buried in the crete. Lowest temp I've seen yet is 44 and this has been a rough winter for sunshine here in Maine, lots of snow, average temps. I have a stove for when I'm out there for any length of time but I've found when temps is around 50 I can do some work pretty comfortably for a hour or 2. Its obvious I need more collector to really do the job but I thinks its worked pretty well considering. I have $2500 or so in the whole setup including the pex in the floor. Lots of labor but I'm not a slave to heating my shop, and based on my experience with solar DHW in my house maintenance should be minimal. One thing I thought once february hit I'd see high temps in my floor but it takes some energy to get 22 yds of 44 degree concrete up. My Delta T across the collector is usually 5 or 6 degrees.



Dang! I'm jealous. That's a lot better performance than I'd expect, you must have a pretty tight shop there. I don't know what kind of underslab insulation you have, but regardless, the subsoil has cooled off over the course of the winter, which is holding down the temp.  Even if the solar barely keeps the temp above freezing, the heat sure helps keep things dry. I've been planning to do something similar eventually, about 12'x28' vertical unglazed steel and poly collector, ie black painted rib formed steel siding with 3/4 poly run in the ribs, extremely low efficiency, but high btu/$. I don't mind working in freezing temps at all, especially if there's sun coming in the sliding glass door, I'd be happy to keep my tools dry. 

Gary, another excellent writeup and excellent system. IMHO the best system out there for retrofit to conventional construction, bar none. Your discussion of optimizing for heat vs hot water said what I was trying to say a lot better. 

If I ever get it done I'll send you some alternative ideas for solar heat/storage for unconventional construction, as if there aren't enough of those already!


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## Wallyworld (Feb 20, 2011)

benjamin said:
			
		

> Dang! I'm jealous. That's a lot better performance than I'd expect, you must have a pretty tight shop there. I don't know what kind of underslab insulation you have, but regardless, the subsoil has cooled off over the course of the winter, which is holding down the temp.  Even if the solar barely keeps the temp above freezing, the heat sure helps keep things dry. I've been planning to do something similar eventually, about 12'x28' vertical unglazed steel and poly collector, ie black painted rib formed steel siding with 3/4 poly run in the ribs, extremely low efficiency, but high btu/$. I don't mind working in freezing temps at all, especially if there's sun coming in the sliding glass door, I'd be happy to keep my tools dry.
> 
> Gary, another excellent writeup and excellent system. IMHO the best system out there for retrofit to conventional construction, bar none. Your discussion of optimizing for heat vs hot water said what I was trying to say a lot better.
> 
> If I ever get it done I'll send you some alternative ideas for solar heat/storage for unconventional construction, as if there aren't enough of those already!



I planned the shop around the solar, in other words I knew I could get a limited amount of BTUs so I made sure I was tight and highly insulated. R54 ceiling, R33 walls, 2inches of Dow Blue under the slab and around the perimeter. I built the walls, covered the outside with 2 inches of urethane foam, then did the sheathing. Under the trusses I did 2inches of foam and then had cellulose blown on top. The shop is tight with the only real leak a 10 by 10 garage door which is r17. The building is 30 by 34, 12 foot ceilings. Lots of folks said I went too far, there will no payback, they might be right in terms of bean counting but in terms of comfort, the place is awesome. The payback is in comfort the same as it is in a cold climate and well insulated house, no drafts means extreme comfort when its 10 degrees out


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## mr.fixit (Feb 20, 2011)

Benjamin,you're right about the subsoil temp gradually dropping.I put a temp sensor under the slab of my building about 5 or 6 feet in and approx. 2 feet under.This winter it bottomed out 48* or 49*F and recently it has climbed a couple degrees.
 Wallworld how about some pictures? 
My building is insulated about the same as you with the exception of side walls-I'm a little less.My collector is also based on Garys design.Works well.


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## Wallyworld (Feb 21, 2011)

Here is the finished collector


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