# Old Growth Fir Log



## hobbyheater (Aug 12, 2013)

Out for a drive this afternoon looking for a newer logging road that would get us closer to one of our favorite old hiking spots. Seen these really nice old growth firs and thought of "Backwoods Savage" and his days as a sawyer. So some pictures were in order.




Still around 40" in diameter on the small end.




The upper end where I'm standing paces off at 90' long.




Some very nice logs in this setting.


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## Ashful (Aug 12, 2013)

Magnificent!  What I'll never understand about these scenes is, if they don't plan to haul that wood out, why did they need to cut down that tree?  Yeah, I know a tree that grew in a forest may just blow down, if the forest is removed, but still...


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## Adios Pantalones (Aug 12, 2013)

Kinda sad.


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## hobbyheater (Aug 12, 2013)

Joful said:


> Magnificent! What I'll never understand about these scenes is, if they don't plan to haul that wood out, why did they need to cut down that tree? Yeah, I know a tree that grew in a forest may just blow down, if the forest is removed, but still...


 
The pictures were taken in a active cut block and the wood has yet to be loaded. The 90 ft. fir log will be loaded using fabric straps to pick it up as opposed using a grapple, which would scar the trunk. This log will be shipped to China as a Temple log and as a temple log, is worth as much as $ 50,000 if it is perfect, which this one is. Hope this explains the pictures better for you.

Any firewood hoarder caught here with a chainsaw will do jail time.


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## Grisu (Aug 12, 2013)

hobbyheater said:


> Any firewood hoarder caught here with a chainsaw will do jail time.


 
First you need to get me:
 

(With thanks to Tom Wallace for digging that up.)


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## ScotO (Aug 12, 2013)

hobbyheater said:


> View attachment 108325
> 
> 
> Out for a drive this afternoon looking for a newer logging road that would get us closer to one of our favorite old hiking spots. Seen these really nice old growth firs and thought of "Backwoods Savage" and his days as a sawyer. So some pictures were in order.
> ...


fantastic pics, HH!  I'd love to be able to visit the past and see some of those magnificent logging operations in their heyday....

On that note, it's sad to see 'em go, too.  Thanks for sharing those pics, I always love to see your pictures on here......


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## hobbyheater (Aug 12, 2013)

Scotty Overkill said:


> fantastic pics, HH! I'd love to be able to visit the past and see some of those magnificent logging operations in their heyday....
> ..


 
The logs in the first set of pictures are in a current and active cut block. Some of those logs are being loaded as I type! You are right. There is just not much of this really nice wood left!




This is a picture of me sitting on a log waiting to go into the sawmill where my dad was the steam engineer. Telegraph Cove - long before it became a tourist whale watching destination.




They cut some heavy duty timbers out of those logs !


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## ScotO (Aug 12, 2013)

hobbyheater said:


> The logs in the first set of pictures are in a current and active cut block. Some of those logs are being loaded as I type! You are right. There is just not much of this really nice wood left!
> 
> View attachment 108378
> 
> ...


Awesome!


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## Backwoods Savage (Aug 12, 2013)

Oh, that would be sweet sawing some of those babies! Thanks for posting those pictures.


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## NortheastAl (Aug 12, 2013)

Indeed, Thanks for posting these. Lots of history there.


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## hobbyheater (Aug 12, 2013)

This is about another 750 feet in elevation above the first set of pictures at about 3,500 above sea level. There appears to be a lot of waste but for this high elevation and the size of the cut block, the wood here was also good quality. Independent operators with self-loading logging trucks would usually haul these logs direct to the wood chip plant at tide water where the chips would be barged to pulp mills.




But the road at this time is not accessible. When the road is opened, the low grade wood will be hauled out.




At the end of the road. Another 500 feet in elevation above the upper corner of the cut block is a place where mother and I would like to hike to. Some very pretty miniature alpine.




I have posted pictures of this area before. This is an alpine area that we used to backpack into when our daughters were in their early teens. It would take 4 to 5 hours to get to this point. With the road being much closer now, we hope to make it a day hike.


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## Grisu (Aug 12, 2013)

Thanks for the pics; very informative. What is actually going to happen with the hillside afterwards? Will new trees be planted or are those growing up by themselves?


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## NortheastAl (Aug 12, 2013)

What an incredible, renewable resource. The vistas are breathtaking.


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## hobbyheater (Aug 13, 2013)

Grisu said:


> Thanks for the pics; very informative. What is actually going to happen with the hillside afterwards? Will new trees be planted or are those growing up by themselves?


 
The cut block will be replanted by hand next spring or possibly this fall with seedlings that are about 8 to 12 inches tall.





This is a picture taken across the valley. The second growth is the really green stands on the valley bottom. Starting at the left, they are about 30 years old and are already 40 to 50 feet tall. This operation from the 1940s to about 10 years was operated and managed by Canadian Forest Products; a very forward thinking company. They were manually planting seedlings, pruning and spacing in the 1940s when most operations could care less about the future.


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## hobbyheater (Aug 13, 2013)

Scotty Overkill said:


> Awesome!


 
Looking at that old picture of me sitting on that log brought back some memories.  First, my right pant leg is rolled up.   My bike had no chain guard.  Second, the life jacket.  I had a 6' punt type row boat at the end of the logs, so before my dad would head off to work, the strings for that life jacket would be tied behind my back and there was also a sign on the back of that life jacket that said "PLEASE DON'T FEED ME".


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## ScotO (Aug 13, 2013)

hobbyheater said:


> Looking at that old picture of me sitting on that log brought back some memories.  First, my right pant leg is rolled up.   My bike had no chain guard.  Second, the life jacket.  I had a 6' punt type row boat at the end of the logs, so before my dad would head off to work, the strings for that life jacket would be tied behind my back and there was also a sign on the back of that life jacket that said "PLEASE DON'T FEED ME".


that's a great memory there, HH!  I'm sure looking at those pictures it really stirs some vivid memories, I bet you can even remember the smell of the air when looking at some of them.  I feel the same way when perusing some of our photo albums of growing up........especially those family pictures.....

I'm a sentimental guy.


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## Lake Girl (Aug 15, 2013)

Hobby, great pics of old growth, higher elevation vistas, and old family photos  Nice to know replanting was occurring in the 40s.  Around our area, they just harvested the white pines and walked away with the $$.  Not sure when planting schemes started here but it didn't start that early.  Happening now though...

I always have a hard time when folks get upset with logging operations - when managed properly, they provide income for local families, create fire breaks, and create future income with reforestation.  Wildland fires are expensive to fight and represent a loss of future income  or heating potential.


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## Mrs. Krabappel (Aug 15, 2013)

Actually, large wildland forest fires are caused by a policy of suppressing the natural burn cycle that clears away the brush.  Most of the money from cuts does not stay local. Re-planting does not create a forest.  The use of herbicides to prohibit all but the desired tree species creates only a crop of trees.


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## NortheastAl (Aug 15, 2013)

I believe it was James Watt, the interior secretary under Ronald Reagan that had the policy of letting fires burn themselves out. If memory serves, he was berated for one burn that wiped out large acreage. That forest, it was shown, had recovered very well ten years later. There are pine trees that do not open their cones unless they've been touched by fire. Fire, is a natural process, and it allows for healthy woodlands and diversity of the forest.


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## NortheastAl (Aug 15, 2013)

Allan, as I look again at these pics it is apparant you live in a beautiful part of the world. BC is one of the places I'd like to visit. Seeing you sitting on a log as a child, then standing on one as an adult, one can see the pride in your eyes at the majesty of it all.


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## hobbyheater (Aug 15, 2013)

Lake Girl said:


> Nice to know replanting was occurring in the 40s. .


 
Thank you for your observant interpretation of what you saw in the photos.  Next time I'm out that way, I will take some pictures of that second growth and post the pictures.
Canfor, as us locals called the company, was started in the late 30s by two families that immigrated from Austria before the outbreak of the second world war. The forest stewardship practices that they brought with them were 25 years ahead of the times.
If you go to Goggle Earth and type in "Woss Lake Provincial Park"; on the lower right from the lake, there are icons on the mountain ridges of pictures taken by a backpacker that are worth the look.


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## hobbyheater (Aug 15, 2013)

Mrs. Krabappel said:


> Re-planting does not create a forest.


 
You are right.  Re-planting does not create a forest.  It creates a farm and with good stewardship, some degree of stability. The cut blocks are replanted as much as possible with the same ratio of conifers trees as before logging took place. The weed tree, which in this area would be the alder, is not planted but has no problem rejuvenating itself in the areas it would naturally grow. I do agree with you that when man gets involved, we in no way can duplicate nature!


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## Ashful (Aug 15, 2013)

hobbyheater said:


> I do agree with you that when man gets involved, we in no way can duplicate nature!


 
True... but Pamela Anderson showed us we can create a reasonable facsimile.


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## hobbyheater (Aug 15, 2013)

NortheastAl said:


> I believe it was James Watt, the interior secretary under Ronald Reagan that had the policy of letting fires burn themselves out. If memory serves, he was berated for one burn that wiped out large acreage. That forest, it was shown, had recovered very well ten years later. There are pine trees that do not open their cones unless they've been touched by fire. Fire, is a natural process, and it allows for healthy woodlands and diversity of the forest.


 

The Douglas Fir is one of the trees that requires a fire to open its cones. In the 60s, the practice of slash burning was very common; mainly to get rid of the debris left in the clear cut as a method of fire control. But as a rule, these fire burned much hotter than a natural wild fire and would often burn the thin layer of top soil that clings to these steep side hills. Also the technology of yarding the logs has also changed. In the days of men manually setting a choker around each individual log, very little brush was yarded to the roadside with the log. When the choker was replaced by a grapple, much more debris arrived at the road side and now in many areas, big backhoes on tracks forward the logs to the road side breaking up the limbs. So the need to burn the whole area has been diminished. Just the areas by the roads where the greatest accumulation of the debris is stacked is burnt when the surrounding area is wet, usually in Nov.





This one of the roadside debris piles that a friend of mine is having some fun getting a firewood log to the splitter.


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## begreen (Aug 15, 2013)

A friend sent me this picture he took this month of a nice big old cedar in the North Cascades near Ross Lake. The burl on the left side is almost as big as a man.


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## hobbyheater (Aug 15, 2013)

begreen said:


> big old cedar in the North Cascades near Ross Lake.


 
That is one very impressive tree! Looks as though there could be a bear den in the root!





This area was logged in the 40s. In the picture is the older brother that I hike with.


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## begreen (Aug 15, 2013)

That looks like a very old one. This region had giants so thick that in some areas a man could barely fit between them. Now most are logged off and second or third growth has replaced them. Where we live the whole area was clear cut for ship building. In particular, the local firs made good masts.


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## Lake Girl (Aug 16, 2013)

hobbyheater said:


> The Douglas Fir is one of the trees that requires a fire to open its cones. In the 60s, the practice of slash burning was very common; mainly to get rid of the debris left in the clear cut as a method of fire control. But as a rule, these fire burned much hotter than a natural wild fire and would often burn the thin layer of top soil that clings to these steep side hills. Also the technology of yarding the logs has also changed. In the days of men manually setting a choker around each individual log, very little brush was yarded to the roadside with the log. When the choker was replaced by a grapple, much more debris arrived at the road side and now in many areas, big backhoes on tracks forward the logs to the road side breaking up the limbs. So the need to burn the whole area has been diminished. Just the areas by the roads where the greatest accumulation of the debris is stacked is burnt when the surrounding area is wet, usually in Nov.
> 
> This one of the roadside debris piles that a friend of mine is having some fun getting a firewood log to the splitter.


 
Studies in the 70's showed that mechanical scarification of site is better than slash pile burning (opens serontinous cones); slash pile burning better than other methods or no site prep for regeneration. Hubby used to use skidder with chockers when logging in the early days of marriage (winter job - commercial diver in spring, summer, fall).

Glad to hear debris used for home heating BTUs

Logging operations can keep dollars local if there are value added industries to support it... sawmills cut dimensional lumber, lumber used to make framing trusses or pre-fab homes. Pulp from poplar to make paper and fibre board. Over a 100 years of history in our area that is only now struggling due to decline in building and paper demand (dang computers).

Slave Lake would not agree that wildland fires is the way to go


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## hobbyheater (Sep 2, 2013)

This valley bottom was logged in the late 60s.




I operated the loader that loaded  the old growth in this setting in the fall of 1979.  The second  growth is really coming back.


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## hobbyheater (Sep 2, 2013)

The following pictures are taken on top of the ridge across the valley just above the right hand corner of the highest slash!



Last time we were up here was 25 years ago.   It used take 4 to 5 hours to hike to this point, now just an hour.



Miniature alpine !



We discovered this little jewel from some 40 years back when our hobby was flying.



Rat Terriers' first venture into the alpine and it even rained a bit.  Surprisingly it did not bother them at all.




This area was loaded with ripe low bush blue berries and the pack did a lot of grazing.


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## DevilsBrew (Sep 2, 2013)

My dad was with a group of owners that refused to clear cut.  Times have changed and money rules.  I still get the Healthy Forest lecture once a year.


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## hobbyheater (Sep 2, 2013)

DevilsBrew said:


> My dad was with a group of owners that refused to clear cut.  Times have changed and money rules.  I still get the Healthy Forest lecture once a year.



On the steep side hills pictured across the valley, it is some very good size timber with very little understory trees.  If you were to try and selective log that ground, at the end of 50 years of selective logging, you would end up with a clear cut.  Those big trees when they hit the ground, they will not stay in one spot on ground that steep.
There are places, if the wood is high quality, they will single stem log with a helicopter.   A faller goes a measured distance up the tree and takes the top off and then goes to the bottom of the tree and leaves just enough wood holding  that the tree still stands but when the chopper gets a hold of the tree with the grapple, it will break off at the stump and be flown to a landing. 
The area across the valley is hemlock and balsam fir which is a low grade wood and would not pay the cost of the chopper. 
Next time I'm up in that area, I will take some pictures for you.


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## DevilsBrew (Sep 3, 2013)

hobbyheater said:


> On the steep side hills pictured across the valley, it is some very good size timber with very little understory trees.  If you were to try and selective log that ground, at the end of 50 years of selective logging, you would end up with a clear cut.  Those big trees when they hit the ground, they will not stay in one spot on ground that steep.
> There are places, if the wood is high quality, they will single stem log with a helicopter.   A faller goes a measured distance up the tree and takes the top off and then goes to the bottom of the tree and leaves just enough wood holding  that the tree still stands but when the chopper gets a hold of the tree with the grapple, it will break off at the stump and be flown to a landing.
> The area across the valley is hemlock and balsam fir which is a low grade wood and would not pay the cost of the chopper.
> Next time I'm up in that area, I will take some pictures for you.



The pictures reminded me of my dad and his lumber business is all.  It would be cool to see your pictures.


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## ScotO (Sep 3, 2013)

Love the pics and the stories with them, Hobbyheater!  Keep 'em coming....


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