# Just Purchased My First Saw



## MacinJosh (Mar 15, 2015)

So after consulting Consumer Reports and my local shop guy, I decided to pull the trigger on a Stihl MS-271. 18" bar












I'm a chain saw noob so I read through the entire manual and watched some YouTube videos. Went outside to give it a go and I can't get the damn thing started for the life of me. Plenty of gas. Bar oil is fine. I put the choke all the way down and pull until my tongue is hanging out. Even tried to put it in the second choke level just below the run level and it won't start for nothing. I have no idea what I'm doing wrong but I'm frustrated and not impressed at all.

Any help would be appreciated. I guess I'll take it back to the shop.

Also, if I ever do get it running, do y'all recommend the chaps and steel toe boots and hearing protection and full helmet, etc.? All I have right now is eye protection but I can always go pick up the rest.

Thanks


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## Isaiah53 (Mar 15, 2015)

I have not run a 271 but I assume the starting procedure is similar to my 261.  I would guess you probably flooded it.  With it on full choke, you want to listen for it to "blurp", like it fires once.  After you hear that, immediately lift the choke up to the half choke position.  It will normally start on the next pull or two. If you pull it more than 4-5 times on full choke, you have most likely missed the blurp and flooded the engine.  On some saws it is easy to miss the blurp.  On a hot restart, you simply go to half choke.


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## Cburke (Mar 15, 2015)

Isaiah53 said:


> I have not run a 271 but I assume the starting procedure is similar to my 261.  I would guess you probably flooded it.  With it on full choke, you want to listen for it to "blurp", like it fires once.  After you hear that, immediately lift the choke up to the half choke position.  It will normally start on the next pull or two. If you pull it more than 4-5 times on full choke, you have most likely missed the blurp and flooded the engine.  On some saws it is easy to miss the blurp.  On a hot restart, you simply go to half choke.


Agreed, pull the spark plug now at this point and clean the electrode off then with the plug out at open choke pull the motor over a few times to get the raw fuel out of the combustion chamber, plug back in open choke still pull until it starts. A indication that you flooded the combustion chamber is raw fuel coming out of your muffler. Good luck! It's a great saw you'll love it


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## MacinJosh (Mar 15, 2015)

Thanks guys. I'll try pulling the plug. Just frustrated because it's brand new and I can't get it to start. Lol


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## Cburke (Mar 15, 2015)

MacinJosh said:


> Thanks guys. I'll try pulling the plug. Just frustrated because it's brand new and I can't get it to start. Lol


Yea whatever u do don't choke it when it's flooded you want as much air as possible to mix with the fuel to ignite the mixture


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## drz1050 (Mar 15, 2015)

Pull the plug, wipe it on your jeans, pull the cord a couple times with the plug removed to dry out the cylinder a bit, then give it another go. There's a small chance that the new saw is just bad too... did the dealer run it for you before you picked it up? If not, check for spark when you have the plug removed. 

Also don't forget the old on/ off switch... that's gotten all of us before. 

Yes hearing protection and boots. If you're not felling, no need for a helmet. Chaps are generally a good idea, but kinda depend on the terrain. All flat ground and you're just bucking up logs? ehh... Never run the saw when you're tired.


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## D8Chumley (Mar 15, 2015)

drz1050 said:


> Never run the saw when you're tired.


Chaps are a good idea, I have them but don't always use them. And this!! ^^^^ That's when bad stuff tends to happen. Congrats on the new saw, hope you get 'er running proper


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## Babaganoosh (Mar 15, 2015)

Assuming there is nothing wrong with the saw of course... But if you can't  trouble shoot and recognize a flooded saw you shouldn't forgo any safety gear.

No offense because in my opinion veterans get hurt just as quickly due to being being complacent but it's a good idea to start with good habits day 1.


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## MacinJosh (Mar 15, 2015)

No offense taken. I'm all ears.

I removed the plug. There was gas on it. I wiped it clean with a paper towel and made sure it was dry. Pulled the cord a few times with the plug removed. Left it in full choke as suggested above. Put the plug back in. Pulled and pulled and pulled and nothing.

[emoji36][emoji36][emoji36][emoji36][emoji36]


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## drz1050 (Mar 15, 2015)

You have good spark?


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## MacinJosh (Mar 15, 2015)

drz1050 said:


> You have good spark?



How do I test that?


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## MacinJosh (Mar 15, 2015)

Pulled the plug out again. Soaked in gas. Assume I'm not properly clearing the carb of fuel.

Suggestions?


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## drz1050 (Mar 15, 2015)

Unscrew the plug, plug it in to the connector. Hold the end against metal/ the engine (has to be grounded), and pull the cord. A little easier to do with two people...

You do have proper two-stroke mix in there, right? Not just straight gas?


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## MacinJosh (Mar 15, 2015)

drz1050 said:


> Unscrew the plug, plug it in to the connector. Hold the end against metal/ the engine (has to be grounded), and pull the cord. A little easier to do with two people...
> 
> You do have proper two-stroke mix in there, right? Not just straight gas?



Yeah. Bought the pre-mix stuff from Stihl. 50:1 mix. Extends the warranty.

Honestly I give up. I'm beyond frustrated now. Going to take it back. Now it's really hard to pull. Something isn't right.


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## D8Chumley (Mar 15, 2015)

Someone else asked also, did the shop have it running before you took it home?


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## MacinJosh (Mar 15, 2015)

D8Chumley said:


> Someone else asked also, did the shop have it running before you took it home?



I believe so but aren't 100% sure. They took it off the shelf. I got distracted talking to someone else, and then when it reappeared at check out, it was hot to the touch.


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## MacinJosh (Mar 15, 2015)

Could someone also tell me how to disable the constant email notifications? I've scoured the settings and even clicked on the link in the emails and nothing is working. Thanks.


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## blacktail (Mar 15, 2015)

MacinJosh said:


> Left it in full choke as suggested above. Put the plug back in. Pulled and pulled and pulled and nothing.



Read the first reply.
Full choke until it sounds like it almost runs. Then half choke will start it. Once started hit the throttle once to take choke fully off. The more you keep pulling in full choke, the more you're flooding it.


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## blacktail (Mar 15, 2015)

http://www.stihl.com/step-by-step-starting.aspx


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## Firewood Bandit (Mar 15, 2015)

blacktail said:


> Read the first reply.
> Full choke until it sounds like it almost runs. Then half choke will start it. Once started hit the throttle once to take choke fully off. The more you keep pulling in full choke, the more you're flooding it.




I am not real up on new Stihls but if it is like my old one.  As soon as it "pops" the choke is disengage and it should be on the fast idle position, (not half choke).

OP you saw sound real flooded.  I'd pull the plug, blow out with compressed air then let it sit several hours without the plug in.  Then reinstall and give it a pull or two (briskly like you mean it) on fast idle.  If nothing, then go through the starting procedure outlined in the manual.


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## KodiakII (Mar 15, 2015)

Full PPE is not optional!  Perhaps seek out some guidance from a buddy or family member that is experienced with saws, learn from them but do not pick up the bad habits that most of us acquire over time.  
As far as starting a Stihl goes I cannot help you there, U havent touched one in 34 years.  My only advice is leave one ear uncovered (preferably your good one if you are like me) until the saw fires...when WEARING your ear protectors!


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## jnaumuk (Mar 15, 2015)

I don't own stihl but my Echo has an off switch and I validated that it will not start with that switch in the off position.


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## MacinJosh (Mar 15, 2015)

blacktail said:


> Read the first reply.
> Full choke until it sounds like it almost runs. Then half choke will start it. Once started hit the throttle once to take choke fully off. The more you keep pulling in full choke, the more you're flooding it.



It never "sounds like it almost starts".


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## MacinJosh (Mar 15, 2015)

jnaumuk said:


> I don't own stihl but my Echo has an off switch and I validated that it will not start with that switch in the off position.



If there is an on/off switch....I am blind. The manual also didn't indicate one.


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## MacinJosh (Mar 15, 2015)

Thanks for all the advice guys. I'm guessing it's really flooded and I'm tired of effing with it. I'm taking it into the shop tomorrow to let them deal with it or get me a replacement.

Not exactly how I envisioned my first day of cutting going. Tried to get that SOB started all day long. A brand new saw shouldn't be that finicky.


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## blacktail (Mar 15, 2015)

The shop should have given you a quick run down on starting procedures. Hopefully it's just really flooded and they can show you how to fire it up in a quick visit.


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## MacinJosh (Mar 15, 2015)

blacktail said:


> The shop should have given you a quick run down on starting procedures. Hopefully it's just really flooded and they can show you how to fire it up in a quick visit.



They did but didn't actually fire it up in front of me. Long story short but I was the very last customer of the day and it was a long Sale Day Extravaganza for them and I'm sure they were all tired and wanting to go home. I had been there for several hours and bought a Bad Boy 54" zero turn mower and sprung the "I'm in need of a saw" kind of late on them. So to their credit, the demo might have been a little rushed.

The good news is, they had balloon pops to see if you won any money off, etc. Most were just $5 off and $10 off your purchase. There were a few $100 off and one $500 off. Like I said, I was the VERY last customer of the day. So I popped the last balloon and won this. [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]







They couldn't believe it. Hahahaha $450 mower. CHA-CHING!


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## Babaganoosh (Mar 15, 2015)

A good shop should have also started and ran it in front of you.


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## Oldman47 (Mar 15, 2015)

Now that you have pulled your guts out just relax. This is a very easy to understand video by Stihl that may help when you are ready to give it a fresh try. 



 I know I never noticed that long burble on my own saw and have been very frustrated at times by not realizing that the thing is flooding until it is way flooded. The burble in that video is far longer than any I have ever experienced but I did learn to just go to warm start position fairly early in the process to avoid flooding.


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## MacinJosh (Mar 16, 2015)

Oldman47 said:


> Now that you have pulled your guts out just relax. This is a very easy to understand video by Stihl that may help when you are ready to give it a fresh try.
> 
> 
> 
> I know I never noticed that long burble on my own saw and have been very frustrated at times by not realizing that the thing is flooding until it is way flooded. The burble in that video is far longer than any I have ever experienced but I did learn to just go to warm start position fairly early in the process to avoid flooding.




God....I did EXACTLY that. Still nothing. *sigh*

Thanks for the video.


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## Dairyman (Mar 16, 2015)

As has been stated sometimes that first burp can be hard to hear especially if you don't know what your listening for. If you don't hear it by the 4th pull go ahead and switch to half choke and it should fire with the next 2 or 3 pulls.

Get the proper PPE! If it saves you 1 trip to the ER its paid for its self and it could save your life.


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## Dairyman (Mar 16, 2015)

MacinJosh said:


> Could someone also tell me how to disable the constant email notifications? I've scoured the settings and even clicked on the link in the emails and nothing is working. Thanks.



Its under preferences 





Just uncheck the box.


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## drz1050 (Mar 16, 2015)

Congrats! That's a nice little mower... you gonna keep it, or sell it on craigslist? 

+1 on just bringing it back to the dealer at this point, have them walk you through the startup routine. 

Actually, you could just leave the spark plug out overnight, then put it back in the morning and give it one more go.. just be sure to put the saw in a place where nothing can fall into the cylinder, or drape a rag over it.


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## KodiakII (Mar 16, 2015)

I cannot say for certain,  but it is not outside the realm of possibilities that you have a bad plug or even a dead saw,,,just sayin.


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## MacinJosh (Mar 16, 2015)

KodiakII said:


> I cannot say for certain,  but it is not outside the realm of possibilities that you have a bad plug or even a dead saw,,,just sayin.



I'm leaning towards this. It's in my truck now and I'll take it back to the store and let them have a go at it this evening.

Thanks for all the advice guys. Much appreciated!


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## Midway43 (Mar 16, 2015)

MacinJosh said:


> If there is an on/off switch....I am blind. The manual also didn't indicate one.





There has to be an on/off switch.  How else would you turn it off when you are done?  Might be part of the choke.  Look in the manual.


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## Dairyman (Mar 16, 2015)

Midway43 said:


> There has to be an on/off switch.  How else would you turn it off when you are done?  Might be part of the choke.  Look in the manual.



The on/off switch is built into the choke switch. It has 4 positions: off, run, half choke, and full choke


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## Ashful (Mar 16, 2015)

On the PPE, here's my advice, sure to generate some flames:

1.  Eye protection.  Obviously the most absolutely necessary piece of PPE.  Don't even think of running a saw without it.
2.  Ear protection:  Too cheap and easy to ignore.  Just do it.
3.  Boots:  Steel toes or cutting boots are a must.  Foot-contact injuries are more common than you might think.
4.  Chaps:  Most already own the three items above, so chaps are (or should be) the first piece of chainsaw-specific PPE any sawyer should buy.  Leg contact injuries are 5x-10x more common than head contact injuries.  In fact, if you watch pros, many wear chaps all day, but only don their helmet for felling.
5.  Felling helmet.  If you're felling trees, this is a must.  If you're just bucking on the ground, it becomes debatable, but it is a convenient way to get your eye, hearing, and head protection in one package.


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## KodiakII (Mar 16, 2015)

Joful said:


> On the PPE, here's my advice, sure to generate some flames:
> 
> 1.  Eye protection.  Obviously the most absolutely necessary piece of PPE.  Don't even think of running a saw without it.
> 2.  Ear protection:  Too cheap and easy to ignore.  Just do it.
> ...




Agree 101%!  Get a bucket (aka hardhat) and at least wear it when felling.  The nice thing about the built in eye protection is it never fogs, unlike glasses and goggles!
Also something I rarely ever seen mentioned is a First Aid kit.  If you are away from the house, or in the woods it may save a life...and a first aid course is also strongly encouraged.  It is one thing to have the kit, and another to how to use it properly or effectively.  I am lucky enough to get training at work on a regular basis.


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## DougA (Mar 16, 2015)

For safety, I would add - make sure you have a cell phone handy if you are working alone.

If you have not already gone to the dealer, make sure you stand beside the guy when he fires it up. Better yet, maybe you should show him what you did to start it and then he can show you what is wrong and what to do when you flood it.

I sympathize with you. I've had lots of stubborn 2 stroke equipment. I've got a bigger Stihl weed whacker that I replaced with a battery one. Such a PITA. Sometimes it feels like voodoo science.


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## MacinJosh (Mar 16, 2015)

Dairyman said:


> The on/off switch is built into the choke switch. It has 4 positions: off, run, half choke, and full choke



Yup. This. [emoji115]


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## MacinJosh (Mar 16, 2015)

Joful said:


> On the PPE, here's my advice, sure to generate some flames:
> 
> 1.  Eye protection.  Obviously the most absolutely necessary piece of PPE.  Don't even think of running a saw without it.
> 2.  Ear protection:  Too cheap and easy to ignore.  Just do it.
> ...



This is exactly where I was leaning. I wasn't going to do any actual cutting without PPE. I just wanted to start the darn thing and warm it up and then recheck the tension. Manual said a new saw will need tightening more often until broken in.

Found this on Amazon. Thoughts?

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004FR0E1E...TF8&colid=2QBKRHG8FXGWD&coliid=I2N6TY0H18XTM5


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## Oldman47 (Mar 16, 2015)

Try your local big box store. I have seen that combination for at least $30 less at Farm & Fleet and at Lowes.


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## Ashful (Mar 16, 2015)

MacinJosh said:


> This is exactly where I was leaning. I wasn't going to do any actual cutting without PPE. I just wanted to start the darn thing and warm it up and then recheck the tension. Manual said a new saw will need tightening more often until broken in.
> 
> Found this on Amazon. Thoughts?
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004FR0E1E...TF8&colid=2QBKRHG8FXGWD&coliid=I2N6TY0H18XTM5


Never tried those chaps, but I do have that helmet ($25 at Lowes), and it works well enough for the weekend warrior in me.  For chaps, I decided I wanted the full skidder chaps with bib and full length leg zippers, which are great for winter.  Still gotta find something less warm for summer.


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## MacinJosh (Mar 16, 2015)

Joful said:


> Never tried those chaps, but I do have that helmet ($25 at Lowes), and it works well enough for the weekend warrior in me.  For chaps, I decided I wanted the full skidder chaps with bib and full length leg zippers, which are great for winter.  Still gotta find something less warm for summer.



Cool. 

Yeah, most of my cutting should be from spring to fall. The winter is when I bunker down and enjoy the fruit of my labor. Right? 

I'm estimating needing around 5-6 cords to heat the house. I need to get go work


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## MacinJosh (Mar 16, 2015)

Also, can someone send me a link to any threads on here where I can see guys' setups outside? Does everyone just use palettes? Anyone cover theirs with a tin roof to keep the wood dry?

Just need some ideas to get started. Thanks.


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## Seanm (Mar 16, 2015)

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/stacking-on-pallets.142355/ heres a link to a current discussion on the use of pallets. I use them and think they are great, stable and better than dunage. I top cover with tarps but rubber roofing, tin etc can be used.

Edit: there are lots of discussions on whether to top cover but I think it comes down to where you live and how much snow you get. I have to top cover as we get frequent thunder storms in the summer and lots of snow in the winter.


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## Ashful (Mar 16, 2015)

MacinJosh said:


> Also, can someone send me a link to any threads on here where I can see guys' setups outside? Does everyone just use palettes? Anyone cover theirs with a tin roof to keep the wood dry?


I'd say most serious burners, at least those here, eventually end up building a wood shed:  https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/show-us-yours-wood-shed.88203/


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## CrufflerJJ (Mar 16, 2015)

MacinJosh said:


> I'm a chain saw noob so I read through the entire manual and watched some YouTube videos. Went outside to give it a go and I can't get the damn thing started for the life of me. Plenty of gas. Bar oil is fine. I put the choke all the way down and pull until my tongue is hanging out. Even tried to put it in the second choke level just below the run level and it won't start for nothing. I have no idea what I'm doing wrong but I'm frustrated and not impressed at all.



Don't you just love it??  I got used to similar hassles with my MS250, until I learned how to properly start the saw.  I was also flooding the thing, which was very easy to do.

I'd recommend that you try the following:
With an un-flooded cold saw, engage the choke fully.  Engage the chain brake.
While standing with your right foot inside the handle, holding it to the ground, pull the starter cord 3 or 4 times.  NO MORE.  If you hear a "pop" as if it's trying to start, that's fine.  If you don't, that's fine too.
Flip the choke to half choke position.
Pull the starter cord until it starts.  This may take 1-6 pulls.
Once the saw starts, flip the throttle/choke to the run position, disengage the chain brake.

None of the above will work if your saw is already flooded.  It's not a good sign that my Stihl saw manual tells the user how to clear a flooded saw.  That suggests that the problem is relatively common.

Once you get it up & running, I'm sure you'll enjoy your new saw.  Try not to get too awful frustrated in the meantime!


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## Seanm (Mar 16, 2015)

Joful said:


> I'd say most serious burners, at least those here, eventually end up building a wood shed:  https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/show-us-yours-wood-shed.88203/


If you have the space I would agree, wood sheds are the way to go. On my .14 acre lot between the attached garage, garden shed, 14 x 14 dog kennel (which doubles as wood storage), garden and trampoline, the fence line is all I have. That and Im pretty sure I would exceed my maximum lot coverage.


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## TreePointer (Mar 16, 2015)

MacinJosh said:


> This is exactly where I was leaning. I wasn't going to do any actual cutting without PPE. I just wanted to start the darn thing and warm it up and then recheck the tension. Manual said a new saw will need tightening more often until broken in.
> 
> Found this on Amazon. Thoughts?
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004FR0E1E...TF8&colid=2QBKRHG8FXGWD&coliid=I2N6TY0H18XTM5



I'm partial to *Labonville full-wrap chaps (6-ply)*.  They are very well constructed, made in USA, and don't break the bank.

Safety glasses = *Harbor Freight Impact Resistant Safety Glasses*. Inexpensive, work great.

Forestry helmet is nice to have.  Check for highest NRR on the earmuffs.  I prefer the metal mesh shield over the clear shield, and I wear the safety glasses underneath.

If you are not felling and you just want muffs, I really like the *3M Peltor H10A Optime 105 Earmuff*.  Very comfortable with 30db NRR.  Amazon, Lowes, Sears and other places have them on sale from time to time.


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## Gpsfool (Mar 16, 2015)

For drying storing wood this can't get easier and works well for me.   ~$45 in materials and can store when full ~4 face cords.  For me it's worth it as pallets never hold up, etc.

Materials
Five   8x8x16 cinder blocks
Four  2x4x8 pressure treated planks
Four  8 foot pressure treated landscape timbers

The four 2x4's across the bottom - makes the rack 16 feet long - nicely off the ground.   The four landscape timbers propped out the holes in the cinder blocks on, two on each end. Cover the top of the wood with plastic and/or tarp material.

Three of these racks and I have 2 years worth of wood.

The one you see below is now full and I have started a second.

Someday I may build a shed - but that's not happening for $45. 

I second the chaps - good protection.






GPSFOOL


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## Ashful (Mar 16, 2015)

CrufflerJJ said:


> It's not a good sign that my Stihl saw manual tells the user how to clear a flooded saw.  That suggests that the problem is relatively common.
> !


I have only flooded my 064 ONCE in three years, and that was on an exceptionally cold day when it just didn't blurp.  The 036 has never flooded on me.  Flooding a properly tuned Stihl is operator error, not a problem with the saw design.

The OP's saw may have a legitimate problem.  It was never fired, not even at the store.  It might be flooded, but there may be another issue, as well.


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## ChadD (Mar 16, 2015)

Get some Labonville chaps and a Husqvarna!


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## BlackGreyhounds (Mar 16, 2015)

TreePointer said:


> I'm partial to *Labonville full-wrap chaps (6-ply)*.  They are very well constructed, made in USA, and don't break the bank.
> 
> Safety glasses = *Harbor Freight Impact Resistant Safety Glasses*. Inexpensive, work great.
> 
> ...


.  

Bailey's running a very good deal on the Labonville Full Wraps  http://www.baileysonline.com/Safety...abonville-Full-Wrap-Chainsaw-Safety-Chaps.axd
I'm sure you could find a helmet with ear muffs and face shield and gloves there too and save on the shipping.


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## MacinJosh (Mar 16, 2015)

Seanm said:


> https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/stacking-on-pallets.142355/ heres a link to a current discussion on the use of pallets. I use them and think they are great, stable and better than dunage. I top cover with tarps but rubber roofing, tin etc can be used.
> 
> Edit: there are lots of discussions on whether to top cover but I think it comes down to where you live and how much snow you get. I have to top cover as we get frequent thunder storms in the summer and lots of snow in the winter.



Thanks Sean. I'm in Kentucky so we get plenty of rain and snow. I'll likely need some sort of covering.

By the way, cute pup in your avatar. Your dog?

Here's mine. Her name is Kineye.


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## MacinJosh (Mar 16, 2015)

Joful said:


> I'd say most serious burners, at least those here, eventually end up building a wood shed:  https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/show-us-yours-wood-shed.88203/



Those are fantastic!! Wow! 

Looks like I got my work cut out for me. Some great ideas in there! [emoji122]


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## drz1050 (Mar 16, 2015)

Were you able to make it to the dealer today?


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## MacinJosh (Mar 16, 2015)

CrufflerJJ said:


> Don't you just love it??  I got used to similar hassles with my MS250, until I learned how to properly start the saw.  I was also flooding the thing, which was very easy to do.
> 
> I'd recommend that you try the following:
> With an un-flooded cold saw, engage the choke fully.  Engage the chain brake.
> ...



Great advice! And in fact, I had unknowingly SERIOUSLY flooded it by pulling too many times in full choke. I SWEAR the instructions never headed this warning. But by God there were 836,493 other warnings I read! HA!

So the local shop pulled the plug and turned it upside down why pulling the cord over and over (swear I did the same thing). He repairs chain saws there so he gave me a real nice demo. He got it started and I brought it home and have fired it up twice, once cold, since and it's working great!

Now I need to purchase my PPE and maybe I'll get to start cutting this weekend.

Thanks again for all the help guys! Y'all are SUPER fast responding! [emoji106][emoji4]


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## MacinJosh (Mar 16, 2015)

Seanm said:


> If you have the space I would agree, wood sheds are the way to go. On my .14 acre lot between the attached garage, garden shed, 14 x 14 dog kennel (which doubles as wood storage), garden and trampoline, the fence line is all I have. That and Im pretty sure I would exceed my maximum lot coverage.



I have 5 acres of dense woods and about 1 acre of clearing/mowing behind the house. TONS of room for a shed. My neighbor has 7 acres and my other has 2 and they already begged me to take all the wood I need. 

I feel like Jaws....."I'm gonna need a bigger boat (shed)" hehe


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## MacinJosh (Mar 16, 2015)

TreePointer said:


> I'm partial to *Labonville full-wrap chaps (6-ply)*.  They are very well constructed, made in USA, and don't break the bank.
> 
> Safety glasses = *Harbor Freight Impact Resistant Safety Glasses*. Inexpensive, work great.
> 
> ...



Great tips and links! Thanks!

I guess I was looking for a one stop shop type deal instead of a la carte. I did price at my local shop today and they seem a little high. Not bad though.

Don't plan on felling until I feel comfortable with the saw and watch several how-to videos. Will likely have my friend Doug drive up to show me as well. He cuts constantly and burns about 5-6 chords a winter in his stove.

PS, I'm trying to get him on here.  He's in one of my bourbon forums so I know he knows his way around these things.


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## MacinJosh (Mar 16, 2015)

Gpsfool said:


> For drying storing wood this can't get easier and works well for me.   ~$45 in materials and can store when full ~4 face cords.  For me it's worth it as pallets never hold up, etc.
> 
> Materials
> Five   8x8x16 cinder blocks
> ...



Oh hell! I'm liking this as a quick, cheap solution so I can get to cutting and stacking and drying soon since I don't even have a stove installed yet. [emoji106]


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## MacinJosh (Mar 16, 2015)

BlackGreyhounds said:


> .
> 
> Bailey's running a very good deal on the Labonville Full Wraps  http://www.baileysonline.com/Safety...abonville-Full-Wrap-Chainsaw-Safety-Chaps.axd
> I'm sure you could find a helmet with ear muffs and face shield and gloves there too and save on the shipping.



I'll look into this. Thanks!

Sounds like the majority of you guys aren't feeling the Amazon deal, eh?

If I'm not felling, I don't need a helmet? I guess I'm just worried about kickback right to the face. Sorry, dumb question but again, I'm new.


----------



## MacinJosh (Mar 16, 2015)

drz1050 said:


> Were you able to make it to the dealer today?



Yup. I summarized what happened above. 

Running great now! Thanks!


----------



## BlackGreyhounds (Mar 16, 2015)

MacinJosh said:


> I'll look into this. Thanks!
> 
> Sounds like the majority of you guys aren't feeling the Amazon deal, eh?
> 
> If I'm not felling, I don't need a helmet? I guess I'm just worried about kickback right to the face. Sorry, dumb question but again, I'm new.



I think you can easily do way better than the Amazon offer you listed.  You should be able to get good full-wrap chaps and ear muffs for around $100-$120 or better yet,   Full wrap chaps and a helmet with ear muff and face screen should be about $120-150.  Trust me, the face shield is great to keep your face from getting smacked by the inevitable small switches you will be working around and a helmet with ear muffs is only a couple $'s more that just ear muff that you can't use with a separate helmet.  So, what I'm saying is:  Get Full-Wrap Chaps and a helmet with ear muffs and face screen at the best price you can.  Safety glasses are essentially  a disposable item, so get several pair of the cheapest ones that are still comfortable.  Remember that the face screen is essential, but you still need the glasses. (This comes from someone who's entire career and income comes from my vision).

For what it's worth, you can get Labonville full-wrap chaps ($71.79 +9.99 shipping) and a Elvex CU60RV ProGuard 6 Point Ratchet Suspension Vented Helmet System - See more at: http://www.baileysonline.com/Safety...Point-Ratchet-Suspension-Vented-Helmet-System. for $39.99.  That's $121.77.   I consider gloves and glasses disposable items.  I buy them in bulk,trying to get the the cheapest yet comfortable option possible.

P.S. I really like the Rockman helmet system.  It's a little more than the Elvex.


----------



## MacinJosh (Mar 16, 2015)

Great stuff! Thanks! Sounds like Labonville full chaps are a slam dunk with y'all here. Now it just comes down to a helmet with ear muffs and a face screen. I like the looks of that combo.

I can see where gloves and glasses would be disposable. I'm not super close to a Lowes so Amazon Prime and I are good friends. I can certainly make a trip though. Was thinking about getting an ax too and try to split some logs the old fashioned way until I save up for a log splitter.

So.......ax suggestions? Splitting mauls? Sledge Hammers? 

I should rename this thread "Help Josh Get Started" haha.


----------



## Ashful (Mar 16, 2015)

MacinJosh said:


> If I'm not felling, I don't need a helmet? I guess I'm just worried about kickback right to the face. Sorry, dumb question but again, I'm new.


I'm not going to tell you what you should do, I'll just say what I do.  I only don the helmet when I'm felling.  It's more for protecting me from falling branches, which cause the vast majority of felling injuries, NOT from kickback.  Any pro feller will tell you, feel the saw, watch the overhead branches... not the other way around.

Your best protection against kickback is:

1.  Mind the kickback zone.  It's caused when the upper quarter of the nose comes into contact with something.
2.  Proper grip:  locked left elbow.
3.  Proper stance:  Saw is not held with bar point straight out away from you, but angled toward your left.  Any violent kickback will send bar past your head to the right, rather than into your head.

Kickback is something worth discussing, as the penalty is severe, but it is not something that happens very often with standard bars and good technique.  The few times I have experienced violent kickback have all been when bucking downed trees, and internal stresses cause the nose or top of the bar to pinch when running full rev's in a cut.  In those cases, the bar rarely comes free of the kerf, but you do get a bit of a jolt from an 85cc saw at full rev's.


----------



## TreePointer (Mar 16, 2015)

MacinJosh said:


> Great tips and links! Thanks!
> 
> I guess I was looking for a one stop shop type deal instead of a la carte. I did price at my local shop today and they seem a little high. Not bad though.
> 
> ...



I have personal preferences, but any chaps/PPE are certainly better than none. Some folks wear a helmet or complete forestry helmet every time they're cutting--nothing wrong with that.

Bourbon forums?!  I was guessing you were a man of quality and taste, but that confirms it.


----------



## Ashful (Mar 16, 2015)

MacinJosh said:


> So.......ax suggestions? Splitting mauls? Sledge Hammers?


The most recommended hand splitting implement on this forum is the Fiskars X25 (or the X27 for taller folk), by a very long margin.  Many of us have a favorite maul of one brand or another, that's not an X25, but there it is.  Others spend 4x more than the Fiskars for hand-crafted implements, which is fun, but an unjustified expense.

Joful... sipping on a glass of 1792 Ridgemont right now.


----------



## MacinJosh (Mar 16, 2015)

TreePointer said:


> I have personal preferences, but any chaps/PPE are certainly better than none.
> 
> Bourbon forums?!  I was guessing you were a man of quality and taste, but that confirms it.



Well I do live in Kentucky outside of Louisville. 

And yeah, StraightBourbon.com is an excellent forum if you are a fan of the water of life.  I'm MacinJosh on there as well. Cheers!


----------



## MacinJosh (Mar 16, 2015)

Joful said:


> The most recommended hand splitting implement on this forum is the Fiskars X25 (or the X27 for taller folk), by a very long margin.  Many of us have a favorite maul of one brand or another, that's not an X25, but there it is.  Others spend 4x more than the Fiskars for hand-crafted implements, which is fun, but an unjustified expense.
> 
> Joful... sipping on a glass of 1792 Ridgemont right now.



Outstanding! Was hoping someone would come along and say "_____ is the hands down most recommend one so do yourself a favor and get one."  Thanks!

And 1792 is a solid pour from Barton right here in Bardstown. [emoji106]


----------



## BrotherBart (Mar 16, 2015)

I can't get my X27 to start.


----------



## BrotherBart (Mar 16, 2015)

MacinJosh said:


> Here's mine. Her name is Kineye.



I have a motion detector on the front door for when the little Woodpile Panther cat wants in. The thing went crazy yesterday and I opened the door and one of those suckers was looking me in the face. Trying to run it off it kept wanting to lick me to death.

Took an hour to find my cat. And her head was on swivel all day looking out for it coming back.


----------



## TreePointer (Mar 16, 2015)

+1  on the Fiskars X27.    

Still won't split?  Try an 8 lb maul, wedge & sledge, or chainsaw "noodling."  For me, if the X27 doesn't split it, it usually gets noodled.


----------



## MacinJosh (Mar 16, 2015)

Ok, now you have me watching YouTube videos on the Fiskars.

This tire idea is brilliant! (And yes, I'm guessing y'all are already quite aware of that technique or even use it, ha!)


----------



## MacinJosh (Mar 16, 2015)

BrotherBart said:


> I can't get my X27 to start.



Ahhhhh.....sarcasm font eh?


----------



## BrotherBart (Mar 16, 2015)

I tell ya. I pretty much use the hydro splitter for everything anymore but bought a X27 just because of the chatter here. One day I had a huge red oak stump cut laying in the woods that I didn't even want my worn out old ass to have to hump into the trailer. So I said what the heck. I took that lil axe down there and it flat amazed me splitting that big hunk into little hunks.

I walked away mumbling "Where he hell were you when I was hand splitting six cord a year?".


----------



## BrotherBart (Mar 16, 2015)

MacinJosh said:


> Ahhhhh.....sarcasm font eh?



No. I can't get me started hand splitting with it.


----------



## drz1050 (Mar 16, 2015)

Lucky you have neighbors like that! I wish I had something like that within walking distance.. Glad you got the saw figured out!

The X27 is a fine axe, I prefer a sharp 6 lb axe eye maul though, 8 lb'er for the funky or big stuff. Do yourself a favor and don't get one of those shitass fiberglass handled Home Depot China ones.. for new, Council Tool makes good stuff, made in North Carolina.. old mauls are good stuff though. Ebay, craigslist maybe, antique shops.. old Collins, Council, True Temper, and Weco mauls are sweet. 
For 6 lb, go axe eye. 8 lb, either axe or sledge eye is fine.


----------



## drz1050 (Mar 16, 2015)

I've seen a couple x27s with broken handles.. yeah, Fiskars might send you a new one, but in the meantime you're out of luck. I can re-handle one of mine in ~1 hr or so.
The alloy they use is also more brittle than what's on a vintage maul. 
I own a X27 and like it for what it is, but rarely reach for it when I'm heading out to the pile.


----------



## Seanm (Mar 17, 2015)

MacinJosh said:


> Thanks Sean. I'm in Kentucky so we get plenty of rain and snow. I'll likely need some sort of covering.
> 
> By the way, cute pup in your avatar. Your dog?
> 
> ...







Yeah her name is Tundra. We picked her up 7 years ago from a sled dog company. Very good with the kids, good jumper, good digger, mouser, typical husky. I see yours is bi eyed as well... same eye. Good looking dog you have there, almost looks like they could be related. Garlic on the left if youre wondering and larch on pallets and top covered in the back.


----------



## Seanm (Mar 17, 2015)

MacinJosh said:


> I have 5 acres of dense woods and about 1 acre of clearing/mowing behind the house. TONS of room for a shed. My neighbor has 7 acres and my other has 2 and they already begged me to take all the wood I need.
> 
> I feel like Jaws....."I'm gonna need a bigger boat (shed)" hehe


Nice. With that kind of land you have room for wood sheds, top covered stacks on pallets etc. What a lot of people here do is dry it outside until its ready for the next burning season and then move it into a wood shed. A few replys for me to read up on since I was last on so that may have been covered. I built Tundra a kennel that needed a 6 ft high chain link that she quickly learned to jump over with one hop so we had to put a chicken wire roof on top that was strong enough for snow. Spied her jumping it once and she cleared it like we walk over a speed bump


----------



## Oldman47 (Mar 17, 2015)

MacinJosh said:


> Great stuff! Thanks! Sounds like Labonville full chaps are a slam dunk with y'all here. Now it just comes down to a helmet with ear muffs and a face screen. I like the looks of that combo.
> 
> I can see where gloves and glasses would be disposable. I'm not super close to a Lowes so Amazon Prime and I are good friends. I can certainly make a trip though. Was thinking about getting an ax too and try to split some logs the old fashioned way until I save up for a log splitter.
> 
> ...


There are tons of opinions about the ideal splitting maul. Some folks like the "monster maul" others like a more traditional maul with about an 8 pound head and then folks like me like the new Fiskars X27 maul. Unless you are going to be splitting tons of wood as a business, most folks find manual splitting with a maul works just fine. 
For felling, try checking out the series put together as training for BC Fallers and the Husqvarna series of information. Both of them will give you a good head start as a new tree faller. The BC Faller series seems to only use a Humbolt style notch because of their focus on lumber. The Husky videos focus much more on an open face notch because they are convinced it is best. Any style notch will work so it is really up to you which one you are comfortable using. I would watch both sets of videos to get a feel for what all is involved in felling and bucking.


----------



## MacinJosh (Mar 17, 2015)

Seanm said:


> View attachment 155926
> 
> 
> Yeah her name is Tundra. We picked her up 7 years ago from a sled dog company. Very good with the kids, good jumper, good digger, mouser, typical husky. I see yours is bi eyed as well... same eye. Good looking dog you have there, almost looks like they could be related. Garlic on the left if youre wondering and larch on pallets and top covered in the back.



Wow. She's gorgeous! Love huskies but wow are they a handful, eh?  

We got Kineye up in Michigan from Karnovanda Kennels. Judy, the owner, is great. Kineye's dad was the #1 ranked husky in the nation Micah for a couple of years and won best in breed at the Westminster Dog Show. Apparently Kineye wasn't deemed show worthy so she was willing to sell her to me. Worked out well for me!

Here's a couple funny memes for ya. 




And this one.


----------



## MacinJosh (Mar 17, 2015)

Seanm said:


> Nice. With that kind of land you have room for wood sheds, top covered stacks on pallets etc. What a lot of people here do is dry it outside until its ready for the next burning season and then move it into a wood shed. A few replys for me to read up on since I was last on so that may have been covered. I built Tundra a kennel that needed a 6 ft high chain link that she quickly learned to jump over with one hop so we had to put a chicken wire roof on top that was strong enough for snow. Spied her jumping it once and she cleared it like we walk over a speed bump



You're gonna love/appreciate that meme I just posted above. :D


----------



## MacinJosh (Mar 17, 2015)

Oldman47 said:


> There are tons of opinions about the ideal splitting maul. Some folks like the "monster maul" others like a more traditional maul with about an 8 pound head and then folks like me like the new Fiskars X27 maul. Unless you are going to be splitting tons of wood as a business, most folks find manual splitting with a maul works just fine.
> For felling, try checking out the series put together as training for BC Fallers and the Husqvarna series of information. Both of them will give you a good head start as a new tree faller. The BC Faller series seems to only use a Humbolt style notch because of their focus on lumber. The Husky videos focus much more on an open face notch because they are convinced it is best. Any style notch will work so it is really up to you which one you are comfortable using. I would watch both sets of videos to get a feel for what all is involved in felling and bucking.



Thanks for the advice! Are these on Netflix or YouTube anywhere?


----------



## MacinJosh (Mar 17, 2015)

Getting ready to order a Fiskars x27 and x7 hatchet. What do y'all recommend to keep them sharp with? Fiskars makes an ax sharpener for $10. Any good? Thanks.


----------



## MacinJosh (Mar 17, 2015)

BlackGreyhounds said:


> P.S. I really like the Rockman helmet system.  It's a little more than the Elvex.



Which one? The Premium or the Professional?


----------



## Ashful (Mar 17, 2015)

MacinJosh said:


> Getting ready to order a Fiskars x27 and x7 hatchet. What do y'all recommend to keep them sharp with? Fiskars makes an ax sharpener for $10. Any good? Thanks.


Not everyone loves the X27.  How tall and heavy are you?  Many prefer the X25.  I remember one rant from Bigg_Redd on this last year, in particular.


----------



## MacinJosh (Mar 17, 2015)

Joful said:


> Not everyone loves the X27.  How tall and heavy are you?  Many prefer the X25.  I remember one rant from Bigg_Redd on this last year, in particular.



I'm 5'10" about 170 lbs. Read some Amazon reviews and some guys were disappointed with the x25 feeling it was too small. But the x27 was better. I imagine this does come down to how big you are and personal preference. If y'all think the x25 would be easier for me to swing, I'll go with that.


----------



## Babaganoosh (Mar 17, 2015)

I'll throw it out there that I hate earmuff type ear protection. They hurt when they press down on your safety glasses, they are bulky, they get sweaty, they snag on stuff.

I prefer plugs. Foam ones are ok if you insert them correctly. However I use custom plugs. They are so comfortable you don't even realize they are in your ears.

Radians makes some that you can mold yourself. They work very well. I have a pair of those too. Can't reccomend them enough

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B003A28OW6/ref=mp_s_a_1_7?qid=1426619906&sr=1-7&pi=AC_SX110_SY165_QL70


----------



## TreePointer (Mar 17, 2015)

Go with the X27.  Longer handle means lower likelihood of putting the axe head in your foot than the X25.


----------



## Oldman47 (Mar 17, 2015)

Most of us have used a sledge or a cutting type axe with a 36+/- handle so the X27 will feel more natural than the X25 with its 30 inch handle. That does not mean the X25 is not a good maul but you will need to get used to that handle length.


----------



## Oldman47 (Mar 17, 2015)

MacinJosh said:


> Thanks for the advice! Are these on Netflix or YouTube anywhere?


Both series are on You Tube.
BC Faller videos:
http://www2.worksafebc.com/Publications/Multimedia/Videos.asp?ReportID=36885
Husqvarna:

Note: the Husky videos are not organized in one spot like the BC Faller videos but you can easily link to them from this one. Just look at the stuff that shows up after you have viewed the one I linked and you will find many others.


----------



## MacinJosh (Mar 17, 2015)

TreePointer said:


> Go with the X27.  Longer handle means lower likelihood of putting the axe head in your foot than the X25.



This is kind of what I was thinking.....


----------



## MacinJosh (Mar 17, 2015)

Oldman47 said:


> Both series are on You Tube.
> BC Faller videos:
> http://www2.worksafebc.com/Publications/Multimedia/Videos.asp?ReportID=36885
> Husqvarna:
> ...




THANKS!! [emoji106][emoji106][emoji106]


----------



## WarmGuy (Mar 17, 2015)

Back to the original problem--I went through the same thing when I bought mine. I called the shop and he told me a procedure to use that seemed so dangerous that I'm not even going to relate it here.

Here's what I've concluded:

It's way too easy to miss the "burp" with the full choke. So I just do one pull with full choke, maybe one with half choke, then no choke.

Concerning a helmet: I always wear mine. I figure that if there's a kickback, I'd rather have the chain hit the helmet than my nose. It's probably true that the helmet will be kicked off my head, but I figure it's still worth it. Maybe I should look in to helmets with chin straps.


----------



## Isaiah53 (Mar 17, 2015)

Glad to hear your saw is running.  In addition to the PPE I would recommend you get a file kit for sharpening your chain before you get into heavy cutting (if you have not already).  Stihl makes a nice kit that most dealers stock.  It has to be matched to your chain.

Next to flooding saws, I think the most common mistake we novices commit is not sharpening our chains frequently enough.  I have come to learn that I need to sharpen mine every other tank of gas.  I can get longer with a new chain, but touch the ground with the bar and its almost immediate.  If you find yourself having to press on the saw when cutting, or see its producing a lot of dust rather than wood chips, it needs sharpening.  You do not want to wait until the bar is smoking.  A I recall, there is a pretty good video on the Stihl website about how to file.


----------



## drz1050 (Mar 17, 2015)

WarmGuy said:


> Concerning a helmet: I always wear mine. I figure that if there's a kickback, I'd rather have the chain hit the helmet than my nose. It's probably true that the helmet will be kicked off my head, but I figure it's still worth it. Maybe I should look in to helmets with chin straps.



Is this really possible? I've had a couple kickbacks large enough for my arm to hit the chain brake.. It works. 

I have a hard time imagining a kick back large enough to come anywhere close to your head.. After all, you should still be holding onto it.


----------



## Ashful (Mar 18, 2015)

drz1050 said:


> Is this really possible? I've had a couple kickbacks large enough for my arm to hit the chain brake.. It works.
> 
> I have a hard time imagining a kick back large enough to come anywhere close to your head.. After all, you should still be holding onto it.


Head and neck injuries make up 10% of all chainsaw contact injuries, and if you're contacting your head or neck with a chainsaw, I guess we could suppose most of those are due to kickback.  I do know leg injuries are 5x - 10x more common than head or neck injuries, depending whose statistics you use.

Here's some info from an NIH study:


			
				http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15027558 said:
			
		

> Each year over 3 million new chainsaws are sold in the United States. The operation of these newer saws combined with the millions of older chainsaws in circulation results in over 28,000 chainsaw-related injures annually. The majority of the injuries involve the hands and lower extremities with less than 10% involving injuries to the head and neck regions. Deaths while operating a chainsaw are extremely rare. The most common hazards associated with chainsaws are injuries caused by kickback, pushback, and pull-in. Kickback is the most common and poses the greatest hazard.


----------



## MacinJosh (Mar 18, 2015)

Joful said:


> Head and neck injuries make up 10% of all chainsaw contact injuries, and if you're contacting your head or neck with a chainsaw, I guess we could suppose most of those are due to kickback.  I do know leg injuries are 5x - 10x more common than head or neck injuries, depending whose statistics you use.
> 
> Here's some info from an NIH study:



Ok guys, I think I got about 90% of my PPE ordered. Just need some steel toe boots now. Welcome all recommendations. Thanks!


----------



## DougA (Mar 18, 2015)

I had a look at the video Oldman posted. Nice info but I have never seen anyone do a bore cut. It must be a local thing for soft timber.


----------



## Ashful (Mar 18, 2015)

MacinJosh said:


> Ok guys, I think I got about 90% of my PPE ordered. Just need some steel toe boots now. Welcome all recommendations. Thanks!



Red Wings always get top recommendations.  I found some Georgia Boot Loggers that I really like, 3-4 years ago at TSC, but all the Georgia Boot stuff I see today has those crap soft expanded lightweight soles.  Gotta call them to see if they still sell the old designs, since TSC stopped stocking them.


----------



## Ashful (Mar 18, 2015)

DougA said:


> I had a look at the video Oldman posted. Nice info but I have never seen anyone do a bore cut. It must be a local thing for soft timber.


The bore cut is the only way to do a tree > 2x your bar length.  I see it used all the time, on big trees.


----------



## MacinJosh (Mar 25, 2015)

Well, got out with the new Stihl last weekend and cut up a 2 foot wide round into manageable pieces. Man that's a powerful little saw. Did a great job with little effort.

I was watching some Wranglerstar YouTube videos and he recommended a skip chain (?). Not sure if I remembered the name right but basically it has less teeth and they are spread further apart. Says it makes a big difference in cutting. I didn't have much issue with the stock chain that came with the Stihl but wondered what y'alls thoughts were.


----------



## Oldman47 (Mar 25, 2015)

You want to be careful with the advice you get there. Some of it is pretty sketchy. A skip tooth chain is for long bars so that the engine can drive it easier and to avoid clogging the kerf with sawdust. If he just told you to always go with a skip chain on the video it is like most of his advice, sometimes he happens to be right for a particular situation. (He also thinks a plane will flatten a surface.)


----------



## MacinJosh (Mar 25, 2015)

Oldman47 said:


> You want to be careful with the advice you get there. Some of it is pretty sketchy. A skip tooth chain is for long bars so that the engine can drive it easier and to avoid clogging the kerf with sawdust. If he just told you to always go with a skip chain on the video it is like most of his advice, sometimes he happens to be right for a particular situation. (He also thinks a plane will flatten a surface.)



Roger that. Thanks!


----------



## Ashful (Mar 25, 2015)

Oldman47 said:


> You want to be careful with the advice you get there. Some of it is pretty sketchy. A skip tooth chain is for long bars so that the engine can drive it easier and to avoid clogging the kerf with sawdust. If he just told you to always go with a skip chain on the video it is like most of his advice, sometimes he happens to be right for a particular situation. (He also thinks a plane will flatten a surface.)


You've got the basic idea, there.  I'd just add that skip chain is usually preferred by the Left Coasters, cutting fast in big pulpy softwoods.  It is not nearly so favored in cutting eastern hardwoods.


----------



## TreePointer (Mar 25, 2015)

Adding a little more...

Some like to use skip/semi-skip chain on shorter bars to have fewer teeth to sharpen, but I don't consider it until around 28" or longer.  Occasionally, you'll find it on small saws because the bar that it comes with really is too long for its available power to pull full comp chain when buried.  In my experience, skip chain on small bars is not as smooth or fast as full comp chain.  There are some who run skip chain on everything and think it's the best thing ever--I do not.


----------



## Jon1270 (Mar 25, 2015)

TreePointer said:


> Adding a little more...
> 
> Some like to use skip/semi-skip chain on shorter bars to have fewer teeth to sharpen, but I don't consider it until around 28" or longer.  Occasionally, you'll find it on small saws because the bar that it comes with really is too long for its available power to pull full comp chain when buried.  In my experience, skip chain on small bars is not as smooth or fast as full comp chain.  There are some who run skip chain on everything and think it's the best thing ever--I do not.



What's your experience been with using skip on hardwoods?  I recently picked up a 28" bar for occasional use with my 044.  It came with a loop of full comp chisel, but since since 28" is kinda pushing it on an 044 I've been toying with the notion of getting  a loop of skip to go with it.    Comments I found on AS were divided, with some suggesting skip performs better on softwoods than hardwoods.  I really only cut hardwoods.


----------



## Ashful (Mar 25, 2015)

Jon1270 said:


> What's your experience been with using skip on hardwoods?


I've never experimented with skip and full comp of the same type on the same length bar.  I suspect this is the reason there are so many debates on which is really better, as there are probably relatively few people who have experimented with both in the same chain type and length.

I do have two loops of skip chisel for my 36" bar, but I run full-comp chisel on my 28" bar, both on the 064 AV.  I only install the 36" bar when cutting stuff over 50" diameter, or when felling something over 30" where my escape path is impeded from one side of the tree.  I went with skip for that bar for the reason TreePointer stated... worried about the 064's sprocket speed pulling full-comp on a 36" bar.


----------



## TreePointer (Mar 25, 2015)

I've tried skip on a few saws that weren't mine, but most of my experience is on a 79cc Makita.

I keep a 24" bar with full comp chain on the saw, and I've never had a problem with it buried in hard or soft woods.  There never seemed to be an issue with chip clearing with the full comp chain.  Skip chain didn't improve anything.

When I swap to a 32" bar, full comp chain functions fine in both hardwoods and softwoods.  Clearing chips becomes an issue when the bar is buried, and that's where skip seems to be preferable.  Limbing with skip chain is more "jumpy."


----------



## BlackGreyhounds (Mar 25, 2015)

WOW!  This thread went from a dude buying an MS271 as his first saw to 32" bars and full-skip chains.  I love the internets!  Anything can happen.


----------



## Jon1270 (Mar 25, 2015)

TreePointer said:


> Limbing with full comp chain is more "jumpy."



You mean skip, right?


----------



## TreePointer (Mar 25, 2015)

Jon1270 said:


> You mean skip, right?



Oops, I did mean skip.  Changed it.  Thanks!


----------



## MacinJosh (Mar 26, 2015)

BlackGreyhounds said:


> WOW!  This thread went from a dude buying an MS271 as his first saw to 32" bars and full-skip chains.  I love the internets!  Anything can happen.



Lmao! Kinda what I was thinking but I don't mind thread drift, especially when I'm learning.

Now I just need a translator for all the saw lingo!


----------



## MacinJosh (Mar 26, 2015)

Seriously though. 32" bars??? Can't imagine. I thought a 20" bar felt long and heavy.


----------



## Ashful (Mar 26, 2015)

MacinJosh said:


> Seriously though. 32" bars??? Can't imagine. I thought a 20" bar felt long and heavy.


32" is what I would call a mid-size bar.  Even my 36" bar looks small, next to the 60's and 72's at the saw shop.

Here's my 36" bar, sitting on a 49" diameter round.  The small saws are a 62cc Stihl 036 Pro with 20" bar, and a 35cc Husq T435 with a 14" bar.


----------



## MacinJosh (Mar 26, 2015)

You guys are on a whole other level. Lmao


----------



## Ashful (Mar 26, 2015)

I have trouble with moderation.


----------



## CrufflerJJ (Mar 26, 2015)

Joful said:


> I have trouble with moderation.



My motto is "if it's worth doing, it's worth doing to EXCESS."  My darling wife doesn't quite understand that approach, but such is life!


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## BrotherBart (Mar 26, 2015)

MacinJosh said:


> You guys are on a whole other level. Lmao



Hang around here long and your credit card WILL suffer. Don't pay any attention to Joful. He's rich. He just burns wood because he likes to show us pics  of all his stuff and make us drool.


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## Bigg_Redd (Mar 27, 2015)

MacinJosh said:


> I was watching some Wranglerstar YouTube videos and he recommended a skip chain (?). Not sure if I remembered the name right but basically it has less teeth and they are spread further apart. Says it makes a big difference in cutting. I didn't have much issue with the stock chain that came with the Stihl but wondered what y'alls thoughts were.



It makes no difference in cutting.  It makes a big difference in ease of filing, however.  



Jon1270 said:


> What's your experience been with using skip on hardwoods?



Exactly the same as it is with "soft woods" - there is no difference until it's time to start filing. 



TreePointer said:


> Limbing with skip chain is more "jumpy."



I have not found this to be true.  In my experience the jumpiness of a chain has more to do with the height of the rakers than the # of teeth.


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## MacinJosh (Mar 27, 2015)

Got my Labonville chaps in the mail yesterday and my Rockman hard hat from Bailey's.

Of course the wee lad couldn't resist trying it on. LOL


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## Rearscreen (Mar 27, 2015)

My 2 cents I bought an electric chain saw sharpener from home depot for about 70 bucks. One of the best tools I have. A sharp chain is essential. Get that credit card out!


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## MacinJosh (Mar 27, 2015)

Rearscreen said:


> My 2 cents I bought an electric chain saw sharpener from home depot for about 70 bucks. One of the best tools I have. A sharp chain is essential. Get that credit card out!



Agreed. The good news is that all this will pay for itself over time with barely any electric heating costs.


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## DougA (Mar 27, 2015)

I bought an electric one five years ago. Now I've got Stihl files, electric sharpener plus a 12v dremmel-like rotary sharpener and now I want to buy the Timberline.
The electric one is great if you have a badly damaged chain (hit a rock) but you lose the proper roundness of the cutting tooth. It cuts OK but nowhere like a new chain and that's the holy grail you want to achieve.  Manual files are best but a PITA unless you do it regularly. You need to file every time you fill up with fuel and I am just too lazy - or too eager to get the job done.  The rotary sharpener is great but the teeth are not all identical which is not good.

So, saving up for a Timberline. Much more $$ here in Canada with our looney sinking lower every day. Waiting for a knockoff from China on ebay that will be 24.95 including free shipping.


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## MacinJosh (Mar 27, 2015)

Link to the Timberline?

This one?

http://www.baileysonline.com/Chains...uides/Timberline-Chainsaw-Chain-Sharpener.axd

$100 ain't bad at all


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## DougA (Mar 27, 2015)

MacinJosh said:


> $100 ain't bad at all


That doesn't include the carbide blade ($25.) plus another $10 for shipping.  In Canada, the best price is about $150.  That's what I paid for my used Stihl 026's.

I can buy 3 Stihl files for $10 but that involves manual labor.


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## Ashful (Mar 27, 2015)

BrotherBart said:


> He just burns wood because he likes to show us pics  of all his stuff and make us drool.


Lol... my saws and stoves are all 20 years old, Bart!


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## drz1050 (Mar 29, 2015)

MacinJosh said:


> Ok guys, I think I got about 90% of my PPE ordered. Just need some steel toe boots now. Welcome all recommendations. Thanks!



Red Wing still makes good boots, but they also make a lot of crap now. Be careful. IMO they are also overpriced, that's what you get for wanting a popular name brand boot. Their USA made stuff is good, but overpriced. 

I rank both Chippewa and Thorogood ahead of Red Wing now, and they cost less. Also, they're made in the US of A. Not all, but most. Chippewas made in the States will have a flag in the laces, Thorogoods will have a flag tag sewn into the side stitching.


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## Bigg_Redd (Mar 30, 2015)

DougA said:


> You need to file every time you fill up



Who told you that?  File when your chain needs filing - whether it's every 2 cuts or every 200 cuts.  There's nothing magical about refueling that causes a chain to need sharpening.


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## MacinJosh (Mar 30, 2015)

MacinJosh said:


> Link to the Timberline?
> 
> This one?
> 
> ...



So has anyone used this? The video on the site makes it look pretty easy. Anyone recommend it?


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## Ashful (Mar 30, 2015)

Bigg_Redd said:


> Who told you that?  File when your chain needs filing - whether it's every 2 cuts or every 200 cuts.  There's nothing magical about refueling that causes a chain to need sharpening.


I prefer swapping chains in the field, rather than stopping in the middle of a day's cutting to file.  I don't understand those guys who want to stop and file, burning even a few minutes of their valuable and sparse daylight hours in February, when I can grind chains by the radio in a heated garage on a Tuesday night after work.

If I'm out cutting all day, and I haven't rocked the chain or otherwise needed to change it in the course of the morning, I'll usually just swap it at lunch time.  That will get me thru the day.  If I do try to run the same chain a full day, it's usually dull before the day is done, so this is just my habit.


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## TreePointer (Mar 30, 2015)

Another chain swapper here.  

I do keep a stump vise in my saw bag, but it's only there for the rare unforeseen circumstance.   The last time I used it was three years ago when my brother showed up in the field with a dull chain on his Stihl 025.


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## jtstromsburg (Mar 30, 2015)

MacinJosh said:


> So has anyone used this? The video on the site makes it look pretty easy. Anyone recommend it?


Got mine a couple weeks ago and have used it four times now. I'm not cutting that often yet, but use it at every fill up.   The 3 or 4 minutes it takes is about the same as swapping chains, I think.  It works great so far.  It was said that it would make a big difference even on new chains.  I bought an extra stihl chain for my 362cm 20" bar and sharpened one out of the box and it's a lot more aggressive cutting.


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## Ashful (Mar 30, 2015)

jtstromsburg said:


> ...it takes is about the same as swapping chains, I think...


Not on a big saw, it don't.  I can't do a 28" full comp in 3 minutes on my grinder, let alone on the bar.


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## Bigg_Redd (Mar 30, 2015)

Joful said:


> Not on a big saw, it don't.  I can't do a 28" full comp in 3 minutes on my grinder, let alone on the bar.


That is actually one of the reasons I went with a 25" bar rather than 28" on my 440 - those few extra links kill my ambition.


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