# 1970's Darth Vadar mask sheet metal stove



## Jaceymae (Feb 26, 2011)

Following a rolling brown out that repeated itself unnannounced to us at 11 degrees several times before noon, I decided it was time to pull out the remnants of an old circa 70's black sheet metal stove we had removed for insurance purposes...apparently we were under insullated beneath, and single wall was not permitted.

I beefed up the underlayment, extended the clearance, and replaced all the pipe. Minor problem with smoke in the room. The insert is in less that perfect condition with rust holes in the middle and is this the reason for the smoke? If so wondered if a new insert could be installed, or if the existing piece could be made solid using a wire mesh patch and some of that high temp stove goop.

Another possibility, if anyone recognizes from my subject line the type of stove this is...there is no other mechanical damper to adjust, and should there be, to control smoke direction.

Thank ou out there for any help. Of course now the temps are in the 80's..but I'LL BE READY NEXT TIME!3]


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## begreen (Feb 26, 2011)

Sounds like that old insert was removed for a reason. Put it out to pasture. Burning in a leaky stove can be very hazardous to your health, especially if the firebox is compromised. Seriously, this could be fatal in some circumstances. Hopefully you have CO and smoke detectors in good working order.


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## Jimbob (Feb 27, 2011)

Sounds like some tin for the scrap bin. You might get a few bucks for it at the scrap yard.
Or use it as an outdoor firepit.


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## VCBurner (Feb 27, 2011)

I like the outdoor firepit idea!  There are many kinds of stoves that can be had for cheap money out there and will burn clean and safe.  Get one, you will not regret it.  There are some really cheap used ones if you only want to spend short money.  Just ask around if you need help picking one out.  Good luck, burn safe, stay warm.  

PS: I wish we saw 80 degrees here too, no such luck until about May/June.


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## Jaceymae (Feb 27, 2011)

With all due respect, I may not have explained properly....although considering this IS Texas, it may go outside eventually. It is a backup for outage of electricity. The insert has not been removed, just has a few holes. I know everyone is all about the cast iron earthstove thing, but this little stove heats up quick and equally quickly cools off when the temps rise. Not like a major heat event that has everyone in a sauna without a way to lower the temps. Maybe I am wrong, but I went to the hardware store and bought some screen to make a patch. Over that I pookied using Imperial Hi-temp Stove and furnace cement. It went thru the sceen and bonded to the insert itself. If this does indeed redirect the smoke, why would this not be a workable idea for now? I really love the style of this stove, you can see the fire like a real fireplace!


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## RNLA (Feb 27, 2011)

If finance is the over all problem I would understand. However for your safety and the safety of the others in your house I would not go for a patch job. It my work for a time but I would not trust it. Metal is very soft when heated as you may know, and furnace cement is meant to fill cracks or joints, when you put it on a face it will not expand and contract at the same rate. The furnace cement will separate with the screen and fall off... Please do not try to get by, There are many inexpensive stoves available and there are several that would probably be a direct exchange for the one you will remove.


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## Jaceymae (Mar 12, 2011)

All the leaks are stopped. It is drawing beautifully when there is a fire going, but when it turns to embers, smoke backs into the room. Is this because there is too much pipe and would taking a couple of the joints off fix that? Remember, it is going out a sheet metal insert in a window and then turns up 45 degrees another 10" or so to put it above the eve two feet. When I look into the stove face and up the pipe, the smoks just stops drawing when there are only embers.


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## Shari (Mar 12, 2011)

Jaceymae said:
			
		

> All the leaks are stopped. It is drawing beautifully when there is a fire going, but when it turns to embers, *smoke backs into the room.* Is this because there is too much pipe and would taking a couple of the joints off fix that? Remember, it is going out a sheet metal insert in a window and then turns up 45 degrees another 10" or so to put it above the eve two feet. When I look into the stove face and up the pipe, the smoks just stops drawing when there are only embers.



Carbon monoxide kills.


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## Jaceymae (Mar 14, 2011)

No Mc Gyver types on this forum?? How about a solution using the existing non-leaking stove such as reducing the length of the pipe upward? There must be someone out there that can wrap their minds around the technicle aspect?


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## Shari (Mar 14, 2011)

Jaceymae said:
			
		

> *No Mc Gyver types on this forum??* How about a solution using the existing non-leaking stove such as reducing the length of the pipe upward? There must be someone out there that can wrap their minds around the technicle aspect?



Jaceymae,  

There probably are not Mc Gyver types on this list because members of this list responsibly recognize the hazards of 'going Mc Gyver' on a stove install.  Have you checked your local codes and your homeowners insurance to see if they even allow the install you currently have?


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## Jaceymae (Mar 14, 2011)

I actually found a website that addressed function of stoves, but had trouble loggin in. There they discussed the loss of heat in certain types of pipe, which was preferable to those dragons that over heat houses.  They talked about the way open stoves totally use the fuel, instead of creating creasote pockets in more sealed off ones. I more want to know the actual way a smallish stove like mine draws and if my minor problem can be addressed. I believe it can be made safe.  I just used McGyver as an example of someone capable of using creative solutions that would be practicle. 

Probably quicker to go out there and totally dismantle it and find out for myself.


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## Fsappo (Mar 14, 2011)

I'd Mcgyver a go-kart, not a stove.  If you like that style stove (guessing since no photo) you may want to replace it with a Malm fireplace down the road.


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## Jaceymae (Mar 14, 2011)

How come nobody knows the answer to my simplest of questions....I guess you guys are just out to sell a new stove to somebody...do you even know how they function..not to be rude..but I asked the question about a mile back there. STOVE DRAWS GREAT, just wondered why it doesn't when the fire is low..just one simple question...sigh....


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## begreen (Mar 15, 2011)

I think you may have answered your own question with "it has a few holes". It sounds like air is leaking in even though the controls are closed. 

Nobody is trying to sell you on a new stove. We just want you to be safe, even if you put in another old stove. If you need more information we are going to need to see what you are seeing with some pictures.


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## remkel (Mar 15, 2011)

Jaceymae said:
			
		

> How come nobody knows the answer to my simplest of questions....I guess you guys are just out to sell a new stove to somebody...do you even know how they function..not to be rude..but I asked the question about a mile back there. STOVE DRAWS GREAT, just wondered why it doesn't when the fire is low..just one simple question...sigh....



Not trying to sell you a stove, but I have a bridge in Brooklyn I would love to talk to you about.....badaboom!


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## cptoneleg (Mar 15, 2011)

Jaceymae said:
			
		

> How come nobody knows the answer to my simplest of questions....I guess you guys are just out to sell a new stove to somebody...do you even know how they function..not to be rude..but I asked the question about a mile back there. STOVE DRAWS GREAT, just wondered why it doesn't when the fire is low..just one simple question...sigh....




Send a picture of your stove might get more help, and don't blow up that part of Texas I  have grandchildren in Gatesville, Waco, and San Marcos.


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## RNLA (Mar 15, 2011)

Even if the pipe clears the eves as you put it; it may not be tall enough. Many stoves include instructions with a minimum height for the pipe. As I said before you may be creating an unsafe condition for your self by trying to make this stove "safe" or use able. Please do not be penny wise and pound foolish. If you have not already done something to hurt yourself do yourself a favor and get someone local who knows about stoves to look at your set up or post some pictures so we could possibly help you get it right... :-/


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## coaly (Mar 16, 2011)

Jaceymae said:
			
		

> How come nobody knows the answer to my simplest of questions....I guess you guys are just out to sell a new stove to somebody...do you even know how they function..not to be rude..but I asked the question about a mile back there. STOVE DRAWS GREAT, just wondered why it doesn't when the fire is low..just one simple question...sigh....



We can't answer your simple questions because we don't know what you have.

A stove doesn't "draw". The chimney does. Do you have a single wall pipe from the stove, all the way to the top?


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## Fsappo (Mar 16, 2011)

Could just shoot a rabbit and hope you strike oil
Just sayin


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## coaly (Mar 16, 2011)

Yeah, I put together the various clues from a few of his posts; "Single wall is not permitted", So "I replaced the pipe" (with what?) He was checking out a website of VERY basic information wondering what pipe or materials work better.......He uses the word "pipe" only, never chimney. And "sheet metal insert in a window" ?...... with pipe 45* just above the eave...... And when the fire burns down to coals he can see the smoke stop going up the pipe........ Obviously he loses the draft, probably thinks a connector pipe is the same as a chimney, and has no idea of the basics of what makes the stove work.

Jaceymae, do you have a vertical chimney ? This is the engine that drives the stove. They are insulated to stay warm inside, and require differential temperatures inside and out to draft. Single wall pipe cools off very quick when the fire dies, and stops drafting. A metal "pipe" chimney is insulated to keep the heat inside and keeps the draft going. a masonry chimney does the same by lots of mass to retain heat until you load it again.

Everyone here knows that, and how they work, and about the laws that require a class A solid fuel chimney. So no one is going to assume you may have stuck a piece of CHIMNEY CONNECTOR PIPE out the window on a 45 degree angle and expect it to work....... 
But that's sure what it sounds like.

If I'm wrong, I'm taking my crystal ball back to the shop.

BTW, we're not all about cast iron earth stove things. Steel Plate stoves may not radiate the heat as long and as good as cast iron, but they are much more fixable, and not fragile. They have their advantages over cast iron. Same as stone has advantages over steel, holding heat for a longer time, or thin sheet metal has an advantage by NOT retaining heat, something in a stove sense known as a disadvantage to us that use stoves to heat an area for longer durations.


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## Shari (Mar 16, 2011)

PS to the original poster:

I have no idea what the exact percentage is here, but I'd bet less that .05% of the posters here are stove sellers.  The overwhelming majority are stove 'users'.  We'd help you if we can but without pictures and/or more details we simply can't help you.

Asking us to help you without more details/pictures is kind of like taking your vehicle into the repair shop and telling the mechanic "It's making a noise.  Fix it - but I'm taking the keys with me when I leave."


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## coaly (Mar 16, 2011)

I gotta get outta this joint


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## Jaceymae (Mar 16, 2011)

coaly said:
			
		

> Yeah, I put together the various clues from a few of his posts; "Single wall is not permitted", So "I replaced the pipe" (with what?) He was checking out a website of VERY basic information wondering what pipe or materials work better.......He uses the word "pipe" only, never chimney. And "sheet metal insert in a window" ?...... with pipe 45* just above the eave...... And when the fire burns down to coals he can see the smoke stop going up the pipe........ Obviously he loses the draft, probably thinks a connector pipe is the same as a chimney, and has no idea of the basics of what makes the stove work.
> 
> Jaceymae, do you have a vertical chimney ? This is the engine that drives the stove. They are insulated to stay warm inside, and require differential temperatures inside and out to draft. Single wall pipe cools off very quick when the fire dies, and stops drafting. A metal "pipe" chimney is insulated to keep the heat inside and keeps the draft going. a masonry chimney does the same by lots of mass to retain heat until you load it again.
> 
> ...



THANK YOU for reading and attempting a thoughtful reply. This is TEXAS...we have maybe two months of relatively cold that I can manage with a plate sized space heater. When the temps dropped to 11 and stayed below freezing for 76 hours, they shut off the electricity with no warning at two hour intervals. As a backup plan only, I decided to implement a stove that had worked years prior, but I yanked because it was not beafed up underneath. It drew out the pipe beautifully, but was did not extend more than
a couple of feet up the side of the house. I extended that height above the eves as I was told that would make it draw better. It did not. I am wondering why when this worked previously at a shorter level, why drawing should not be better. You have explained that the pipe cools off too quickly. Maybe you people can afford a double walled joint which was quoted at more than 100 bux, but I cannot, and did not think necessary since single wall had worked before. I sent a photo attachment in the first, but it did not show up. Perhaps the laws of physics have shifted since the first incarnation when this stove was functional, but if it worked before, why fix it to the tune of hundreds of dollars as a backup plan to rare events when I only had money for what it is that I did do, which is overkill from what was there in the first place. Thank you for your time to read and process this. I know you all have a better plan and deeper pockets.


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## Shari (Mar 16, 2011)

Again, a picture of the current install (inside the house) and the chimney (outside), will speak volumes.

Get yourself a free photo account at Photobucket, post your photo there and then put a link here in your thread.


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## coaly (Mar 16, 2011)

Franks said:
			
		

> Could just shoot a rabbit and hope you strike oil
> Just sayin



My crystal ball uses Valvoline 10W-40


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## coaly (Mar 16, 2011)

Shari said:
			
		

> Again, a picture of the current install (inside the house) and the chimney (outside), will speak volumes.
> 
> Get yourself a free photo account at Photobucket, post your photo there and then put a link here in your thread.



Shari, there is no current install. He sits it in front of a window and sticks a piece of stove pipe out the window for emergency heat.

Here's my new TV.


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## RNLA (Mar 17, 2011)

I am thoroughly disgusted with this. I am trying to understand why this person does not put in natural gas or propane for the unexpected outage. If you could get by with a small heater then hook up a small propane fueled furnace. It seems like everything is a temporary install and patch job. I do understand thinking it should work now if it worked before but I think from the sounds of things he/she does not have any intention of keeping their home heated with wood. Therefore they don't want to spend any money and just get by with what they have. I'm sorry but this is neither safe nor sane, penny wise - pound foolish! :blank:


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## Fsappo (Mar 17, 2011)

If a woodstove thread thoroughly disgusts you.....


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## Jaceymae (Mar 17, 2011)

To the disgusted one, my apologies.  I am merely trying to use what I consider an esthetically pleasing alternative.  If I can wrap my mind around why this stove is not drawing as it did before, it will also satisfy my interest in how things work. I appreciate any replies along those lines. My stove is every bit as beautiful a TV as the previous commenters, albeit a little less Jetsonian.


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## begreen (Mar 17, 2011)

Still waiting for pictures so that we can see what you are seeing.


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## Meneillys (Mar 17, 2011)

Sorry to most on here I am the Macgyver type. But sadly I do not have much experience with wood stoves besides splitting and stacking fire wood for my grandfather. I would say if you have the stove and it did work why not repair it and use it the maybe one time a year. Just make sure to have meters to pick up dangerous gases if there are any. I would not want to go buy a new stove or plumb a new gas stove for something used maybe once a year. If there is an air leak you could pressurizer the stove while its cold via the stove pipe and feel for air leaks or if its easy to clean use soapy water and look to bubbles.


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## begreen (Mar 17, 2011)

I'm much the opposite. I wouldn't have a stove with serious holes as a backup any more than I would have a truck needing a brake job as my emergency vehicle. This may only be for a few days a year, but as with most emergency systems, when you need them, you really need them. And you need them to work well because you will be pushing them hard and depending on them, possibly for your life and safety. But with single wall pipe on a holey stove, we are just guessing what changed without seeing how it was installed and the visual condition of the stove. I still don't even know what a Darth Vadar mask stove is supposed to be.


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## remkel (Mar 17, 2011)

BeGreen:

As OBWon would say " Use the force- trust your feelings".

Using the force, I tend to think this stove is a bit roughed up. Trusting my feelings, I think I would hesistate to light her up.

I must now must go out and destroy a death star.....


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## Meneillys (Mar 18, 2011)

One thing I thought about after posting. I would not use the stove cement for the reason posted after heating up and cooling down it is going to crack and leak. I would have them welded. I think working seven years fixing machines that had no replacement made me into the type that thinks anything can be fix but at the same time if I knew it was working but was going to harm the user it wouldn't go back to the production floor.


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## coaly (Mar 18, 2011)

Or a rivited patch...... from an old juice can.  There's your Mcgyver stove.


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## Jaceymae (Mar 18, 2011)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> I'm much the opposite. I wouldn't have a stove with serious holes as a backup any more than I would have a truck needing a brake job as my emergency vehicle. This may only be for a few days a year, but as with most emergency systems, when you need them, you really need them. And you need them to work well because you will be pushing them hard and depending on them, possibly for your life and safety. But with single wall pipe on a holey stove, we are just guessing what changed without seeing how it was installed and the visual condition of the stove. I still don't even know what a Darth Vadar mask stove is supposed to be.


I wouldn't have a stove with serious holes either. As I said a mile back there, NO HOLES! JUST DOESN"T DRAW WELL when fire is low...sheeeeeeesh! Just pull the plug you guys with the  horrible handicap of NO IMAGINATION..and deep need to deep six my project. I appreciate all others, including the poor guy who has to sheepishly admit MyGyverism. I'll figure it out, it will be safe and if not, I will pull it. But not until a rational mind has me convinced, and so far those arguments have more holes than my stove USED TO HAVE.


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## begreen (Mar 18, 2011)

Sorry, Zelda, the resident psychic is off duty this month. Perhaps I didn't read this, or my imagination is running wild:



> The insert is in less that perfect condition with *rust holes in the middle* and is this the reason for the smoke?


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## Jaceymae (Mar 18, 2011)

The insert has been repaired. NO holes. NONE..ZIP..NADA.


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## Mt Ski Bum (Mar 19, 2011)

perhaps we could give you some better/more accurate advise if you could PLEASE post some pictures of your stove/set-up. We have requested pics. numerous times, & you so far seem to be ignoring us.


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## Mt Ski Bum (Mar 19, 2011)

Jaceymae said:
			
		

> The insert has been repaired. NO holes. NONE..ZIP..NADA.



until that stove cement cracks from expansion/contraction...
as mentioned earlier, if you want to seriously fix that stove, forget the stove cement & weld those holes closed.
Again, pictures would help a TON.


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## RNLA (Mar 19, 2011)

As I said before, most stoves have a recommended flue height, this is also the same as a chimney or pipe. If you do not have the correct amount of pipe it will not draft properly. The rule of thumb is usually about 15ft. minimum, all the way out to about 28-30ft. as in a two story install. The outlet of the pipe must be at least 2ft. above the tallest object within 10ft. in any direction. So if you do not fit these general parameters you will not draft correctly. The other factor is the pipe diameter, a 6" pipe of say 15ft. will have a different draft than an 8" pipe of the same length. Then the other factor is weather you use insulated pipe. The insulated pipe is for safety as much as it is to keep the heat in the pipe. In fact it is required for manufactured home installs in many states. So if you will read this and verify what I'm saying with a reputable professional who knows what they are talking about you'll see what you need to do. I do not believe I am to far off in my information and have done many installs for other people. The others here do know what they are talking about too. Being curious is OK but do it in a way that is verified by actual science look at some other installs and talk to other people. We still can not help without pictures, all we can do is imagine your set up and at this point we are having some wild imaginations! :gulp:


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## agartner (Mar 19, 2011)

Jace, its the chimney that drives the stove.  If the chimney gets cold , the stove wont draft.    Elbows in the chimney also dont help either.  My guess is that as your fire dies out, the chimney gets cold, the draft stops, and you get smoke and CO into the house.    Figure out a way to keep the chimney warm.  Ill leave that to you to mcguyver it as you see fit.  As pointed out before, the chimney also has to be higher than your house.  Otherwise, your stove will want to use your house as the chimney instead.

The rest is my opinion,  if you dont want it, then accept the info above and stop reading here.

Based on what ive read in the thread above, this sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.  A woodstove  can and will either burn your house down or asphixiate you with carbon monoxide if not installed properly and safely.  Either of these can and will kill you.  Dead.  No wakey and a sad little story on your local news.  Try not to let this happen.    

Good luck


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## Jaceymae (Mar 19, 2011)

RNLA said:
			
		

> As I said before, most stoves have a recommended flue height, this is also the same as a chimney or pipe. If you do not have the correct amount of pipe it will not draft properly. The rule of thumb is usually about 15ft. minimum, all the way out to about 28-30ft. as in a two story install. The outlet of the pipe must be at least 2ft. above the tallest object within 10ft. in any direction. So if you do not fit these general parameters you will not draft correctly. The other factor is the pipe diameter, a 6" pipe of say 15ft. will have a different draft than an 8" pipe of the same length. Then the other factor is weather you use insulated pipe. The insulated pipe is for safety as much as it is to keep the heat in the pipe. In fact it is required for manufactured home installs in many states. So if you will read this and verify what I'm saying with a reputable professional who knows what they are talking about you'll see what you need to do. I do not believe I am to far off in my information and have done many installs for other people. The others here do know what they are talking about too. Being curious is OK but do it in a way that is verified by actual science look at some other installs and talk to other people. We still can not help without pictures, all we can do is imagine your set up and at this point we are having some wild imaginations! :gulp:



The picture I sent in the original post liquified in the ethers apparently. I have an extremely slow dial-up connection due to my remote location. Let me try to better paint you a picture with words. Darth Vadar's mask was rounded on the top, and he talked thru a grate...so maybe that was not the best description. The stove has a gaping opening 10" wide in the center and 3' wide from corner to corner. It has a 6" single pipe leading 42" from the top of the stove out the window via a 45degree coupling. There is more than 18" clearance to the sheetmetal opening. BTW, the house had this stove in it when I moved here in 1984. It drew fine and went up above the ceiling height outside, but not above the roof. This is why I am attempting to find out why the higher new extension is not drawing. Seems it would stay hotter without having the height you all say is a requirement to draw properly. It is 6" pipe to more than 2' above the eves, and above but not 2' above the peak of the roof which is within 10'. To do that would require another joint. There is a rain cap on top of that.

I appreciate all the detailed explainations, have lit only two small brief fires, and am not racing to kill myself or others. 

Yesterday temps hit 90.


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## pen (Mar 19, 2011)

If you downsize the pics you should have no problem, or click on my username and email them to me and I'll adjust them for the site for you.  An email may take a while to send but may not time out like your web browser may be doing.

pen


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## RNLA (Mar 20, 2011)

Ok, so another factor is the "offset" in the pipe when it transitions out through the window. There is a negative affect when you use a 90,45 or what ever angle it happens to be. On the size of the pipe being 6" the minimum height sholud total at least 1. I am not sure of the scientific calculations and reasons but it is the bare minimum of a straight pipe, more like 15ft. for a pipe with an offset and more if the pipe travels horizontally weather you use 45 or 90 degree transitions. The flue temperature that some others have hit on is important but a pipe of the proper size and length or height will draft naturally, also keeping in mind the clearance above the highest obstacle within 10ft. If you do not have 2ft. above the roof or are not at least 10ft. away you will lose draft. The other factors are going to include barometric pressure and weather conditions. The temperature of 50 or above probably is too warm to get good draft anyway.


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## Jaceymae (Mar 20, 2011)

RNALA-You said, " On the size of the pipe being 6â€ the minimum height sholud total at least 1." Do you mean 10? as in 10 feet?


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## begreen (Mar 20, 2011)

The description helps. Does it look something like this? If so, it's more a fireplace than stove. Is the top connection 6" pipe or is it a larger size that has been reduced down?


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## Jaceymae (Mar 21, 2011)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> The description helps. Does it look something like this? If so, it's more a fireplace than stove. Is the top connection 6" pipe or is it a larger size that has been reduced down?




THAT's IT! Do you know a name for it? Or manufacturer info? Mine had been reduced down to 6", and not quite as shiny. BUT THAT's IT!! Good Work!


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## Jaceymae (Mar 21, 2011)

AND....mine is not on legs...has a sheet metal surround beneath it that lifts it 7" or so off the granite platform.


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## begreen (Mar 21, 2011)

The unit may be a Malm Lancer, but that is just a guess. You can find more info here: http://www.malmfireplaces.com/lancer.html

A fireplace needs more air volume. It absolutely should not be choked down. The poor draft is being caused by the pipe size reduction and elbows in the pipe. Why or if it really worked well before I can not tell you. 

Download the Lancer installation instruction for understanding how to safely install this stove. Please pay close attention to the hearth requirements as well as the flue piping. 

http://www.malmfireplaces.com/pdf/lancer.pdf


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## RNLA (Mar 23, 2011)

Sorry Jace, I was distracted when I was doing the post on pipe height. Now we know what your dealing with by the pictures that Begreen posted. I do know as he said that those units do require a massive amount of air. We had lots of those around my area when I was a kid and I can tell you the thing I remember most was the smell of smoke in the house. The ones I remember most, that did work, were installed in an "A" frame house or some other high ceiling, big room... So in other words the draft issues your battling do not surprise me. Furthermore I am not sure one of those units would work with any elbows of any shape. The installs I remember from childhood were straight up and tall 6" pipe. Perhaps somebody else could help us out here? I can tell you for sure that there is no way that a pipe of 10-12 total feet with elbows of 45 degrees would be enough to draft properly. The other thing with that unit that will be a requirement is the use of a fire grate to slightly elevate the burning wood off the floor of the unit. This will provide air flow around the fire that will "speed up" the burn a bit. I say the best thing you could do at this point is add say about 3ft. of pipe to your height. I also say you will battle the draft with that fireplace till the cows come home... Sorry my friend but they never were a really great heater.


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## Delta-T (Mar 23, 2011)

really does look like Darth Vader's mask.......


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## Fsappo (Mar 23, 2011)

Jaceymae said:
			
		

> BeGreen said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Iâ€™d Mcgyver a go-kart, not a stove.  If you like that style stove (guessing since no photo) you may want to replace it with a Malm fireplace down the road. 

I called Malm first, what do I win?


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## coaly (Mar 23, 2011)

_I called Malm first, what do I win?_

Hey, I guessed he didn't have a chimney. He just used the trick words _stove_ and _insert_ to throw us off.

A heater it is not. Well, it _will _throw some heat _outside_.


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## webbie (Mar 23, 2011)

Preway and others also made similar units.

Some of them were designed to match up with specific pipe sold by the maker, so one must be careful!


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