# Heatilator CAB50 - Won't start sometimes



## Hdhogger (Oct 17, 2012)

My heatilator CAB50 sometimes won't ignite fully sometimes. When I turn the thermostat on the pellets start dropping and it does ignite. The problem is the pellets that were dropped in the firepot will burn out before more pellets start feeding (auger is full of pellets). I shut off t-stat and let the exhaust blower shut down. Turned on t-stat and it lit up good.
  Anyone know why it's doing this. I would like to be able to leave the house knowing it will fire up when calling for heat.

Thanks


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## saladdin (Oct 17, 2012)

Exact same stove and exact same issue. Vacuum.

I followed the advice below (after thinking my door was good and checking snap disks etc...) and it has not done it since.

Post#5 from kinsmanstoves

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/anyone-know-how-to-test-a-snap-disc.86248/#post-1112314


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## Hdhogger (Oct 17, 2012)

saladdin said:


> Exact same stove and exact same issue. Vacuum.
> 
> I followed the advice below (after thinking my door was good and checking snap disks etc...) and it has not done it since.
> 
> ...


 
 Hey Saladdin,Did you have to replace any snap disks, or do you reset them, I'm not familiar with how they work. My door seal is tight.
One answer at the link said that if the stove is off for a few days a misfire happens sometimes. What do you think?


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## saladdin (Oct 17, 2012)

Hdhogger said:


> Hey Saladdin,Did you have to replace any snap disks, or do you reset them, I'm not familiar with how they work. My door seal is tight.
> One answer at the link said that if the stove is off for a few days a misfire happens sometimes. What do you think?


 
Snap disks were good. I thought my door was good also until I followed the advice.

Here's what mine did:

Thermostat called for heat
Pellets would drop
Igniter would ignite the pellets in the stove
Stove would not drop any more pellets after initial drop (Unless I did the reset thing I mention below)
Pellets burned out and stove shut down

The only way to get it to work was to hit the reset button on back and/or re-slide the thermostat AFTER the intitial pellets dropped (same as resetting). Then it worked fine.

My stove was a few months old when this happened. Until that vacuum issue it ran like a top and never, ever misfired. The door trick fixed mine. It is now back to perfection.


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## Mt Vernon (Oct 17, 2012)

I think you basically have the same stove as me, just with a different exterior.  I never could get my stove to run on auto going on 6 years now.  I just run it on manual all the time and kick it down to low when I leave or go to bed.  It also wouldnt run on low very well at all until I added a good long run to the chimney pipe.  Now it runs great on low.  Good luck trying to get that thing to cycle on and off without mis firing.


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## slls (Oct 17, 2012)

It should work like mine. Pellets drop, ignite, when thermocouple reaches 200 F pellets start dropping again. The thermocouple should be all the way in against the ceramic cover. Mine never misfired , I did get tired of pushing the TC in at every cleaning, so I wired it so it would stay in. The controller needs to see 200 F about 2.5 Mv, green light on, before it will drop more pellets.


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## saladdin (Oct 17, 2012)

slls said:


> It should work like mine. Pellets drop, ignite, when thermocouple reaches 200 F pellets start dropping again. The thermocouple should be all the way in against the ceramic cover. Mine never misfired , I did get tired of pushing the TC in at every cleaning, so I wired it so it would stay in. The controller needs to see 200 F about 2.5 Mv, green light on, before it will drop more pellets.


 

How did you wire it to stay?


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## kinsmanstoves (Oct 17, 2012)

Hdhogger said:


> Hey Saladdin,Did you have to replace any snap disks, or do you reset them, I'm not familiar with how they work. My door seal is tight.
> One answer at the link said that if the stove is off for a few days a misfire happens sometimes. What do you think?


 

I will dig into my wallet to bet on the door gasket.  Use the dollar bill test to determine not just thinking it is secure.

Eric


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## Hdhogger (Oct 17, 2012)

kinsmanstoves said:


> I will dig into my wallet to bet on the door gasket. Use the dollar bill test to determine not just thinking it is secure.
> 
> Eric


 
 I checked the door gasket it's good and tight. I think what I have is a pipe and chimney run that the exhaust blower can't push through when it's full of cold air so it takes a reset to get throuhg it.

Cleanout T off exhaust port - 3" to  6" adapter - 5' of 6" pipe at a 45 degree angle into 8" x 11" chimney flue - 35' to top of chimney.

Am I on the right track with this?


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## SmokeyTheBear (Oct 17, 2012)

Hdhogger said:


> I checked the door gasket it's good and tight. I think what I have is a pipe and chimney run that the exhaust blower can't push through when it's full of cold air so it takes a reset to get throuhg it.
> 
> Cleanout T off exhaust port - 3" to 6" adapter - 5' of 6" pipe at a 45 degree angle into 8" x 11" chimney flue - 35' to top of chimney.
> 
> Am I on the right track with this?


 
Yes that is a possibility, normally a flue larger than 6" needs to be lined all the way to the top with 4" lining.


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## Hdhogger (Oct 17, 2012)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> Yes that is a possibility, normally a flue larger than 6" needs to be lined all the way to the top with 4" lining.


 
Ok thanks for the info. I'll see how it operates when it's running more constantly, not every other day or 2.


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## slls (Oct 17, 2012)

saladdin said:


> How did you wire it to stay?


 
I did this in 08, never got around to making it look better, only I see it.


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## St_Earl (Oct 17, 2012)

this *probably* isn't the answer if you have left the feed gate at factory settings, but a too small opening in the feed gate can also cause this scenario to occur.
i had closed mine all the way down last year. but it was in the middle of the cold season so i was running pretty much 24/7 by then.
i opened it back up a bit this year after a couple misfires.
i had the double whammy of not having run the reset enough to properly fill the auger channel at the start of this season.


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## DexterDay (Oct 17, 2012)

Were is the feed gate set? What setting do you run on (wont pertain to the misfire, just askin)? 

Is the gate set like it should he in the manual? Or do you adjust it for heat? 

The gate limits the feed on start up. Low feed. Small fire. Small fire = No T/C satisfaction.


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## Hdhogger (Oct 17, 2012)

I have the feed gate open fully. I will adjust as the stove is running most of the time in colder weather. Also when turning on cold I get a pulsating vibration after it lights until all the cold air is pushed out of the flue.


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## saladdin (Oct 17, 2012)

kinsmanstoves said:


> I will dig into my wallet to bet on the door gasket. Use the dollar bill test to determine not just thinking it is secure.
> 
> Eric


 
The problem is how to gauge the dollar bill test. I thought mine was good until I followed your advice and did the door trick. Now it runs like a top. I see no harm in doing the door trick and seeing. Do you?


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## saladdin (Oct 17, 2012)

slls said:


> I did this in 08, never got around to making it look better, only I see it.


 
Thanks for taking the time.


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## saladdin (Oct 17, 2012)

Hdhogger said:


> I have the feed gate open fully. I will adjust as the stove is running most of the time in colder weather. Also when turning on cold I get a pulsating vibration after it lights until all the cold air is pushed out of the flue.


 
 I've not touched the factory feed gate sitting at all/ full open. I get the "vibrating/roaring" at start-up also. Mine runs Medium 80% of time and never on low, it devours pellets on low setting.


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## Hdhogger (Oct 17, 2012)

saladdin said:


> I've not touched the factory feed gate sitting at all/ full open. I get the "vibrating/roaring" at start-up also. Mine runs Medium 80% of time and never on low, it devours pellets on low setting.


 Did the door test it's tight all around, glass is clean. If these stoves use more pellets on low that must mean the auger doesn't slow down with the convection blower. Is that right?


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## DexterDay (Oct 18, 2012)

Hdhogger said:


> Did the door test it's tight all around, glass is clean. If these stoves use more pellets on low that must mean the auger doesn't slow down with the convection blower. Is that right?



Low uses less than Medium.

Medium uses less than High.

High is the "Highest" feed rate. 

Its all based on auger cycle times.

Low cant use more.


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## saladdin (Oct 18, 2012)

Hdhogger said:


> Did the door test it's tight all around, glass is clean. If these stoves use more pellets on low that must mean the auger doesn't slow down with the convection blower. Is that right?


 
The stove works right. Blower and auger moves correctly with the setting.

It's just that the way my house is set up , stove is located and where my thermostat is the low setting takes a long time to get to my preferred temp. Just as an example, it may take my stove on high 15 minutes but on low it takes 40.

The stove isn't the only thing that effects pellet usage, insulation, house layout etc...


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## saladdin (Oct 18, 2012)

DexterDay said:


> Low uses less than Medium.
> 
> Medium uses less than High.
> 
> ...


 

Really? So it's my imagination that it takes much longer/more pellets on low then high to get to my preferred temp even though I've measured usage? Glad you know my house so well.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Oct 18, 2012)

Dexter,

saladdin wasn't talking about his per hour pellet consumption but the poundage required to meet set point on the t-stat pumping 8,000 BTU/hr on low into a house losing x (say 7000) BTU/hr at an outside temperature of y is going to take a very long time to make a set point much higher than the current actual house temperature. Burning at a higher setting will get him there faster and will likely consume fewer pellets getting there (this is not the same thing as staying at set point) because heating like heat loss is a per hour rate based upon the temperature difference that exists and the temperature difference is only going to increase as you head to the set point. It is even possible that on low it never makes it to set point at all.


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## DexterDay (Oct 18, 2012)

saladdin said:


> Really? So it's my imagination that it takes much longer/more pellets on low then high to get to my preferred temp even though I've measured usage? Glad you know my house so well.



You are only heating the air up (very quickly) to satisfy the stat.  Which means the stove will start and stop more often. The stove burns almost more than half as many on High as on Low. So the time difference is normal. BTU's are BTU's. 

On Low, your gonna run a little longer. But your house will "Soak" the temperature up. Which means you heat everything. The walls, the couch, etc. It will run a little longer. But will stay off longer and house feels more comfortable.

This is regardless of house layout. Heating the air really fast will always satisfy the stat quicker. But the articles in the room/house will be cooler and cool the air quicker. Lower and slower provides less cycling.

I only run Low. It will run for an hour straight. But will stay off for 2 hours. 

To each there own, but you made it sound like it ate more on Low than on Med.


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## Hdhogger (Oct 18, 2012)

DexterDay said:


> You are only heating the air up (very quickly) to satisfy the stat. Which means the stove will start and stop more often. The stove burns almost more than half as many on High as on Low. So the time difference is normal. BTU's are BTU's.
> 
> On Low, your gonna run a little longer. But your house will "Soak" the temperature up. Which means you heat everything. The walls, the couch, etc. It will run a little longer. But will stay off longer and house feels more comfortable.
> 
> ...


 
Saladdin, Dexter, Smokey, All these points make sense. I guess it's how the individual home will respond to heating. Since this is my first year with the CAB50 it will be a trial and tweeking situation.


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## kinsmanstoves (Oct 18, 2012)

Hdhogger said:


> I checked the door gasket it's good and tight. I think what I have is a pipe and chimney run that the exhaust blower can't push through when it's full of cold air so it takes a reset to get throuhg it.
> 
> Cleanout T off exhaust port - 3" to 6" adapter - 5' of 6" pipe at a 45 degree angle into 8" x 11" chimney flue - 35' to top of chimney.
> 
> Am I on the right track with this?


 

Dear God man, what are you thinking?

Eric


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## Hdhogger (Oct 18, 2012)

kinsmanstoves said:


> Dear God man, what are you thinking?
> 
> Eric


 
Eric, I know, extreme! I thought I would give it a try before installing expensive lining. Here's the scoop. Tonight when I got home from work I did this.
Fired it up, had to hit the reset twice before good burn. After the convection blower came on I let it cycle off by T-stat setting. After about 15 minutes it called for heat, fired up with no problem and has been cycling on and off with no problem now 4 times. So I think Smokey might have the solution, 4" liner. I thank you and everyone else for their input. Good to hear all kinds of views. Thanks all.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Oct 18, 2012)

kinsmanstoves said:


> Dear God man, what are you thinking?
> 
> Eric


 
Wood stove  burner Eric converting to the dark side a stove at a time.


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## Hdhogger (Oct 18, 2012)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> Wood stove  burner Eric converting to the dark side a stove at a time.


 Love the 13 good hens. But, I like a good bourbon before the stout.


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## kinsmanstoves (Oct 20, 2012)

It is absolutely amazing what happens when you hook up a pellet stove correctly!

Eric


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## SmokeyTheBear (Oct 20, 2012)

Hdhogger said:


> Love the 13 good hens. But, I like a good bourbon before the stout.


 
Well sad to say I have to change my sig again it is only 12 good hens now, one didn't make it through yesterday.


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## Hdhogger (Oct 20, 2012)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> Well sad to say I have to change my sig again it is only 12 good hens now, one didn't make it through yesterday.



Sorry to hear that.


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## nikeseer (Nov 14, 2012)

saladdin said:


> I've not touched the factory feed gate sitting at all/ full open. I get the "vibrating/roaring" at start-up also. Mine runs Medium 80% of time and never on low, it devours pellets on low setting.


 How many bags are you using at medium 80 % of the time?  I've adjusted my feed gate setting to 1/3 closed from fully open.  My low will run only with feed gate wide open.


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## nikeseer (Nov 14, 2012)

Question for all cab50 owners.  Feed gate setting.  Wide Open or on lowest opening... will medium drop the same amount of fuel on either setting?  I'm thinking no.  On low with Feed Gate lowest, it does not keep up and stove goes out even with it running 24/7.  On medium no problem but burning more fuel.


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## nikeseer (Nov 14, 2012)

Hdhogger said:


> Saladdin, Dexter, Smokey, All these points make sense. I guess it's how the individual home will respond to heating. Since this is my first year with the CAB50 it will be a trial and tweeking situation.


 I've been running mine just on and off. Waiting on more programmable thermostat.


DexterDay said:


> You are only heating the air up (very quickly) to satisfy the stat. Which means the stove will start and stop more often. The stove burns almost more than half as many on High as on Low. So the time difference is normal. BTU's are BTU's.
> 
> On Low, your gonna run a little longer. But your house will "Soak" the temperature up. Which means you heat everything. The walls, the couch, etc. It will run a little longer. But will stay off longer and house feels more comfortable.
> 
> ...


 On low for me doesn't seem to keep my house as warm. Waiting for programmable thermostat to come in. Gets cool at night when in the 30's and high 20's. Have to keep feed gate wide open on low or stove shuts off.  On Medium runs like a champ with feed gate partial closed about a 1/3.  Don't want to burn thru my fuel to fast.


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## nikeseer (Nov 14, 2012)

DexterDay said:


> Low uses less than Medium.
> 
> Medium uses less than High.
> 
> ...


 I've noticed the cycle hasn't changed with the auger on any of the settings.  About every 6 seconds pellets drop about 3-5 times then 12-14 secs then back to every 6 etc.   Any insight?


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## DexterDay (Nov 15, 2012)

nikeseer said:


> I've noticed the cycle hasn't changed with the auger on any of the settings.  About every 6 seconds pellets drop about 3-5 times then 12-14 secs then back to every 6 etc.   Any insight?



The time will always be the same (each heat setting). Each heat setting, has a specified "On" time.  The auger will be "On" for X seconds. This # only changes if you change heat setting. My Classic Bay is 6.1 seconds of "On" time. This will never change. The feed gate is an independent part that is purely manual and mechanical, and will not change this time either.

The feed gate blocks the auger cover hole. The lower you put it, the less fuel. You must watch how low.you set it, as you may go to low, and the stove will not receive enough pellets for ignition on the next Call for Heat. If you run on High a ppt, its best to set the gate to where Heatilators recommend (4"-6" above pot on High). 

As for Low, if your heat loss is greater than the BTU output on the stove, then it wont get it done. The heat exchange system is about the only other thing thats different between a Quad and a Heatilator (Shell/exterior is the other).  Quads have a far superior system to extract heat. 

As for you not being able to adjust the gate on low (unsustainable fire)? Have you tried a different pellet? Some pellets create a Much Larger Flame than other pellets? Thats why the feed gate is there, to adjust for pellet quality, keeping.the flame 4"-6" above the pot (on high).

Here are some papers on a Quad, but same goes for your unit. Even the times should be about the same? My Classic Bay is rated at 47,500 BTU. Having the same controller, it should be very close to these #'s. Its a good troubleshooting guide.


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## The Ds (Nov 15, 2012)

we have the PS50,and we have pretty much settled on feed gate wide open running on low the majority of the time....This is how Dex has his Quad set up and it is working for us.......I will say that the ProPellets we just finished up a couple of bags of burned with a bigger flame than others{GT,Lignetics,Pres-to-logs,easy heats} so we did close the feed gate a bit.....We had a few misfires also,but I removed the ceramic thermocouple cover and got the ash out of it,reinstalled it{as previously mentioned making sure it is pushed up to the TC tip} No misfires since....  Good luck!

  dave


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## St_Earl (Nov 15, 2012)

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...r-hopper-in-regards-to-pellets-sticking.6035/

just linking that thread because pellets sticking in the hopper is another reason for misfires with various brands of stoves.


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## nikeseer (Nov 15, 2012)

DexterDay said:


> The time will always be the same (each heat setting). Each heat setting, has a specified "On" time. The auger will be "On" for X seconds. This # only changes if you change heat setting. My Classic Bay is 6.1 seconds of "On" time. This will never change. The feed gate is an independent part that is purely manual and mechanical, and will not change this time either.
> 
> The feed gate blocks the auger cover hole. The lower you put it, the less fuel. You must watch how low.you set it, as you may go to low, and the stove will not receive enough pellets for ignition on the next Call for Heat. If you run on High a ppt, its best to set the gate to where Heatilators recommend (4"-6" above pot on High).
> 
> ...


 Trying to find the happy medium. With oil we used to keep the house at 67 and that was a little chilly. Our house is 1500 sq ft and med with the cab50 kept it at 70 with the feed gate about a 1/3 closed with temps about 30.  10 hrs about a half bag on med. Flame on the low side but peaks about 4-6 when it's given a lot of fuel. Haven't gotten a programmable thermostat yet.  I believe that will help.  I bought 3 tons for this season and hoping not to need more.  First season and have to find the right combination.  Help? Using Premium wood pellets Made in Maine by TC.  So to make sure I'm getting this.  And thank you.  on Medium..  feed open full or low it will get the same amount of fuel?


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## DexterDay (Nov 15, 2012)

nikeseer said:


> Trying to find the happy medium. With oil we used to keep the house at 67 and that was a little chilly. Our house is 1500 sq ft and med with the cab50 kept it at 70 with the feed gate about a 1/3 closed with temps about 30.  10 hrs about a half bag on med. Flame on the low side but peaks about 4-6 when it's given a lot of fuel. Haven't gotten a programmable thermostat yet.  I believe that will help.  I bought 3 tons for this season and hoping not to need more.  First season and have to find the right combination.  Help? Using Premium wood pellets Made in Maine by TC.  So to make sure I'm getting this.  And thank you.  on Medium..  feed open full or low it will get the same amount of fuel?




The feed amount will change, based on the gate setting. The "time" will be the same (6.1 seconds). 

The gate is like a carburetor. Open the gate (slide up) and you get more fuel, close the gate (down) and less fuel.  If you.look in the hopper, you will see you are only covering the auger feed hole up with the plate/gate. The more you cover the hole, the less the auger can grab. 

(Example: Gate wide open on Medium. The auger will cycle on and run for 6.1 seconds and dump 3.5 lbs of pellets per hour, or 28,000 BTU's. So you are getting Max BTU's on Med. 
Now close the gate and you may only get 2 lbs an hour from the same 6.1 seconds and that only amounts to 16,000 BTU.)
These #'s are just fictional #'s and are only an example.

So you get less heat from the same setting. Less fuel= less heat. 
:
If you ask a dealer or a quad tech, they will probably tell you to set the gate to the specified flame height, according to the manual. No matter what setting you run on. I want max BTU from the lowest setting, so I run wide open.

Its trial and error. But remember, if you set the gate at a lower setting and you didnt check it on High (4"-6"), then your stove may not start, because the gate is set to low and not enough pellets get fed for the start up cycle. So if you set it pretty low, switch it to High and make sure your flame still reaches that set-point. Otherwise a misfire may happen. 

Hope this helps.


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## nikeseer (Nov 19, 2012)

DexterDay said:


> The feed amount will change, based on the gate setting. The "time" will be the same (6.1 seconds).
> 
> The gate is like a carburetor. Open the gate (slide up) and you get more fuel, close the gate (down) and less fuel. If you.look in the hopper, you will see you are only covering the auger feed hole up with the plate/gate. The more you cover the hole, the less the auger can grab.
> 
> ...


 It totally helps!  All the information you've all given has been invaluable!  I did the dollar bill test and it is tight on the bottom and and in between the hinges but the top middle towards latch and latch side not as tight.  I can pull the dollar bill out easier than the other side.  I remember reading there is an adjustment that can be done to make it tighter.  But I can not find it.  I also noticed the ash that sometimes builds up on the glass is always from the top right corner all the way through the middle to the hinge side and goes from top to bottom on latch side.  Any ideas?


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## saladdin (Nov 20, 2012)

nikeseer said:


> How many bags are you using at medium 80 % of the time? I've adjusted my feed gate setting to 1/3 closed from fully open. My low will run only with feed gate wide open.


 
Best I can tell you is in Tennessee last winter I used 1.5 tons and that was burning and turning a constant 74 ish in the house.  1400 sq ft.


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## saladdin (Nov 20, 2012)

nikeseer said:


> It totally helps! All the information you've all given has been invaluable! I did the dollar bill test and it is tight on the bottom and and in between the hinges but the top middle towards latch and latch side not as tight. I can pull the dollar bill out easier than the other side. I remember reading there is an adjustment that can be done to make it tighter. But I can not find it. I also noticed the ash that sometimes builds up on the glass is always from the top right corner all the way through the middle to the hinge side and goes from top to bottom on latch side. Any ideas?


 
Worked for me.

Post#5 from kinsmanstoves
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/anyone-know-how-to-test-a-snap-disc.86248/#post-1112314


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## saladdin (Nov 20, 2012)

nikeseer said:


> Question for all cab50 owners. Feed gate setting. Wide Open or on lowest opening... will medium drop the same amount of fuel on either setting? I'm thinking no. On low with Feed Gate lowest, it does not keep up and stove goes out even with it running 24/7. On medium no problem but burning more fuel.


 
I'd do some checking. For kicks, I just started playing with my feed gate. All the way closed mine will fire up on low and cycle on and off like a champ.

Now I am trying midway on the slide for the hell of it.


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## nikeseer (Nov 20, 2012)

saladdin said:


> I'd do some checking. For kicks, I just started playing with my feed gate. All the way closed mine will fire up on low and cycle on and off like a champ.
> 
> Now I am trying midway on the slide for the hell of it.


Mine runs super on medium with the feed gate as closed as it can go.  Tested on high and fits the bill with the pellets I'm using.  4-6 inch flame on high, and keeps the nights at 70-71 at night.  Been in the high 20's.  I shut off for several hours and the house kept its 70-72 for that whole time.  Once sun set turned back on.  We have 2 story cape and live in Central CT.  Last year mild.  Believe this year going to be much colder.  Last year friend of mine only burned about 2 ton up here.  Even he believes we may burn 3 ton +.  I think I may have to get more.  Trying to conserve while it's still on the mild side.


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