# Truck Owners, towing and camper trailers.



## daveswoodhauler (Jul 14, 2009)

Well, I think I have the Mrs's conviced of getting a truck next spring, and just had a few questions as I have not owned a truck before.

Seems like a large population of the members here have trucks, so thought I would ask some fellow burners on their thoughts.

Basically, I am looking at either the Ford F150 or Chevy 1500..probably model years 2004-2007 or so. (I have selected these models for pricing and service in my area)

1.) My inlaws have a trailer that they are letting us use to go camping. Its a 2008 21 ft unit, with a Towing weight of 3500 pounds empty. I am thinking the larger V8 (5.4L) vs the 4.6L would be my best bet considering the extra HP and torque. (Also, mpg's soesn't appear to be a huge difference) Any thoughts? (Travel distance to campgrounds would be appx 120-150 miles or so, with some hilly roads in the White Mountains, NH)

2.) Trailer has electric brakes, any idea on the cost of installing a brake controller? Also, how do these units work....do they automatically work when the trucks brakes are used.

Thanks for your input.


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## stee6043 (Jul 14, 2009)

Brand for brand I'm sure you'll get plenty of responses for both.  I'm a Chevy guy myself.  Regardless - I would suggest getting the V8.  In the past I have towed with both the 4.3L (older) and the 4.2L (newer) motors from GM and they are less than "amazing".  If you are planning on towing more than once or twice per year I think you'd thank yourself for getting the V8.  And like you said - you'd be amazed at how close the mileage is between the two.

Brake controllers are easy especially if your truck is prewired.  If the truck has a stock 7-pin round plug chances are good there are three wires under the dash just waiting for a brake controller.  I found Amazon.com has some of the best prices on controllers.  Less than $100 and the install is super easy.  You just have to decide whether you want proportional or solid state.  Solid state is good for most as it's cheaper and more rugged (arguably)...they can be had for $40 or so....


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## stee6043 (Jul 14, 2009)

Ohhh - to answer your question on how the brake controllers work - proportional controllers work by actually sensing when you apply the brakes on your truck and they then apply a similar amount of braking to the trailer brakes.  A solid state controller simply applies a liner amount of brake pressure based on a timed delay that you can set.  This is why the solid state units are so cheap.  There are no moving parts and they have a nice option of being able to be mounted in any direction.  Propotional units have internal devices that sense acceleration (deceleration) which drives the cost up and they must also be mounted in a proper position to work correctly....


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## daveswoodhauler (Jul 14, 2009)

Thanks Stee6...excellent reply...exactly what I was looking for. (Thanks for the laymans version on the brake controller as well)


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## Highbeam (Jul 14, 2009)

I've been an RVer for many years. I currently tow a 24' nash trailer along with my equipment trailer and tractor.

You will want the chevy here. The GM with the 5.3 gets excellent mpg and excellent power, nothing compares. I own that engine in a GMC yukon and love it. The Ford 5.4 is prefered over the smaller optional V8 due to power issues and the 5.4 is a respectable engine, just sucks more fuel than the GM. 

The RV crowd almost unanimously selects the prodigy brake controller from tekonsha. The controller senses deceleration and applies a corresponding amount of power to the trailer brakes. It works great and costs 125$ when I bought mine. There is great flexility in the mounting of modern proportional controllers. The wiring should be under your dash already and the prodigy will plug right in. 

Your next big issue will be the hitch setup and the proper W/D hitch system.


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## woodsman23 (Jul 14, 2009)

Highbeam said:
			
		

> I've been an RVer for many years. I currently tow a 24' nash trailer along with my equipment trailer and tractor.
> 
> You will want the chevy here. The GM with the 5.3 gets excellent mpg and excellent power, nothing compares. I own that engine in a GMC yukon and love it. The Ford 5.4 is prefered over the smaller optional V8 due to power issues and the 5.4 is a respectable engine, just sucks more fuel than the GM.
> 
> ...




I have had a ford F-150 for 12 years and it continues to run and look great!. It is the 4.6 small V8 and this motor is bullet proof hands down over any other motor. I have 296,xxx miles on it and it still runs new. I tow and haul 2 tons of pellets no problem along with a 3,000lb boat. My neighbor has a chevy and has replaced the intake 3xs in 5 years and a number of other things. Any american truck is a good truck remember.......

While the chevy may get better mileage and get you there, the FORD will also get back!. ;-)   (just messing highbeam)


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## Highbeam (Jul 14, 2009)

I deserved that. I'm sure they're both great trucks, I've put in miles on both as my father owns the 5.4 ford.


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## RAY_PA (Jul 15, 2009)

if you tow anything over 3000lbs with that 4.6L engine...you wont be a happy camper! (pun intended)


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## SolarAndWood (Jul 15, 2009)

Try and find one with the factory towing package.  The transmission cooler is nice to have when pulling that much weight through the mountains.

I'm curious how much more weight goes in these trailers when you load them to go camping?  I am surprised at how many look overloaded on the highway and the number of mishaps I see every year.  It wouldn't take too much gear in a 3500 lb empty trailer to go over the standard receiver rating.


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## Dix (Jul 15, 2009)

I can vouche for the integrated tow command system in the Fords. I love mine.

I don't know if the F-150 had that option. Ford started that with 2005.

Beats a control box heads over heals.

I'd watch my weights, too. You might be better off with more truck, to handle the load, and improve stopping ability.

Stopping is mucho importante.

Good luck with your search !!


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## JeffRey30747 (Jul 16, 2009)

If you are thinking of towing on a regular basis, I would at least take a good look at the 3/4 ton option in your brand of choice. IMO, 1/2 tons are suited for occasional runs to the big box store but that's about it. My daily driver is a Tacoma double cab but if I need a real truck, I opt for the '99 F-350 dually flatbed w/ 7.3L Powerstroke diesel.
I second the recommendation on the Tekonsha Prodigy. I found the best deal online at RJay's and they are good folks to deal with, too.

http://www.rjays.com/Tekonsha/prodigy-01.htm


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## daveswoodhauler (Jul 16, 2009)

Thanks for the all the replys and help, much appreciated.
As far as how often I am going to be towing, its going to be perhaps 3-4 trips per year, so its not going to be a lot.
The trailer empty is 3500lbs, and we won't be putting much in it...wont be filling the water tanks and such.. as most of the sites we are going to have full hookups. Trailer stuff will be basically food and linens and such.
For the cost, sounds like the best approach on the brake controller is the automatic one that judges acceleration/deacceleration and braking vs the other type that you pre set...seems like the additional cost is well worth it.

Here is a pic of the trailer:


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## SolarAndWood (Jul 16, 2009)

Unless your heart is set on a pickup truck, I would also take a look at Suburbans.  They are built the same but more often than not are just used as passenger cars.  The 5 year old 3/4 ton burb I bought 3 years was the same price as similar vintage pickups and was built out a lot nicer.  Another plus is that the receiver had never even been used.  

As for the 1/2 ton 3/4 ton question, my previous Suburban was a 1/2 ton with the 5.3L.  I pulled my 36 ft 4000 lb sailboat back from Florida when I bought it.  75 the whole way and even used cruise on the flat parts of 95.  It was more than capable.  However, when I started using the 1/2 ton for the equipment and dump trailers, it started to show its limitations.  While I am very happy with the 3/4 ton with the 6L, the 1/2 ton rides a lot nicer at highway speeds and is much better on gas.

Lastly, I'm not sure how much salt is used in your area.  In Syracuse, it is horrendous.  I have found that the drive to southern PA or beyond is completely worth it when buying 5+ year old trucks.  Same price, fewer headaches.  I drove the car down to pick up the last one and pulled it back behind the Suburban on a UHaul car trailer.


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## daveswoodhauler (Jul 16, 2009)

Pretty much set on the truck....have wanted one for the last 15 years or so, so the time is now.
I was possibly looking at one of the larger SUV's for towing, but then what would I do with my scrounged wood  (Plus, the Mrs's isn't happy that I offered to keep my inlaws trailer here, and I don't think she'll like 2 trailers sitting on our lot ....the deal is that if I get the truck, I get rid of the utility trailer.
Good advise on going a little south for the truck...makes sense.
Thanks.


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## SolarAndWood (Jul 16, 2009)

Another thing to keep an eye on is the rear end gears as they make a big difference in mileage and engine noise on the highway.  For the weight you are talking about, 3.73s are more than enough.  I would stay away from the 4.11s.


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## blades (Jul 16, 2009)

ford vs/ chev  both capable, min. 5 L  8,  ford underpinnings heavier duty than chev, ford has leaf springs in back(on 3/4t) less sway and alot cheaper easier to add a helper spring if needed not sure on chev. both are coils up front i think in your year range. With either , if it does not have a trans cooler have one added lot cheaper than rebuilding a overheated tranny. I have fords a pair of 99's 150 +350. Word to wise on 150 find out which tranny is in it as ford has 2 that are installed in 150, most are the small light duty one which has 2 main issues at apx 100k overdrive band self-destructs and the rear main bearing siezes up,


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## deerefanatic (Jul 17, 2009)

I'll throw in on this conversation because I feel I have a position that many of you don't.. I'm a mechanic. 

I will say up front that I'm a chevy guy..... You all know that i'm a "somehting" guy, so I'll be open on my brand preference.

For what you are saying you want to do, a Chevy 1500 with the 5.3 is  your best bet. The Fords DO have a slightly heavier chassis, and the integrated brake controller wiring harness (which in my opinion is SEVERELY undersized in wire gauge.... so dont use it....) but their interiors are hands-down a piece of cr@p..... They've come up alot in recent years, but they still aren't even close to Chevy on this....

Motors, basically all the same. I will point out that the Ford Triton motors have a LOT of problems with blowing spark plugs out of the heads, which gets spendy.. And, if  you're at all a DIY type, tune ups are a real PITA on them.... On the other hand, the Chevy 5.3 is VERY easy to do plugs/wires on, with just simple walmart hand tools.... And seems to have no common failures......

For transmissions, basically equal here..... Chevy's do have the "Tow Haul" feature which makes it shift a little firmer to save the tranny... Not needed in my opinion, and I'll explain why later....

Handling & Ride: Chevy's use to rule in this category due to their independent front A-arm suspension.... Ford has the same thing now.. Game over. I will throw out that ford has always used hi-arch springs in the back of their trucks to help keep the ride smooth in back, but that causes them to sag alot more in the rear end under the same tongue load...... But, if you're using the weight distributing hitch that you're supposed to, then that's not much of an issue.....

Brake Controllers........ Tekonsha Voyager, hands down... I know most RV'ers brag up the prodigy, but I personally like the voyager better... It's a design that's going on almost 15 years old, and has been nothing but bulletproof in the very demanding farm/commercial markets... While it isn't as automated as the Prodigy (you have to adjust the level on the Voyager) it's more predictable and more reliable..... And cheaper.... And as far as braking performance.. Just as good if not better IMHO.

Now. I'll tell you what I have for a truck and what I do with it. 

I have a 1995 Chevy 1500 2 wheel drive Extended cab with the old GM 6.5L turbo diesel... 4L80e automatic transmission. I haul heavy trailers often with it. In fact, I haul my sister's gooseneck horse trailer with it almost every other week..... Together with truck, gear, trailer and horse, I'm grossing close to 15,000 lbs.  I have AirLift air helper springs in the back of the truck to help keep the back end up under load.... this truck is a real workhorse that I work the tar out of and it takes it in stride... I tow this 15K rig in Overdrive, all the time..... tranny is untouched (not so much as a filter change) with 155,000 miles...... Motor is a piece of crap like all early GM diesels (but hey, it's still a diesel!  ) I think that a half-ton truck is ideal, and will take a large beating on an occasional basis without issue..... Now, if  you're thinking that hauling may become a monthly thing, then a 3/4 ton might be a good choice.....  Although, if you can get a really good deal on a clean, low mileage half-ton, then go for it, as there's lots that can be done to beef them up..... Trust me, I know. 

That's my $.02. Hope it helps you.


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## deerefanatic (Jul 17, 2009)

Here's some pics of my truck and the trailer: http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=121474&id=733618614&l=f346113a38


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## North of 60 (Jul 17, 2009)

By the looks of that trailer in your photo I dont think technically you can call that camping. Your gonna have to call that home-ing. :lol: In any case what ever you do on desending on hills always start slow and you will end up slower at the bottom with the least amount of strain on your breaking system. Drop it out of drive and into a lower gear even before you crest the hill. The only away around that is a 3/4 ton or 1 ton with an exhaust/engine brake on a diesel engine. Good luck and safe travels with your new to you purchase.
N of 60


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## SolarAndWood (Jul 17, 2009)

deerefanatic said:
			
		

> Here's some pics of my truck and the trailer: http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=121474&id=733618614&l=f346113a38



I bet you could get a year's worth of wood in that.  As long your sister didn't need to move her horses, it would make a great wood shed as well.


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## deck2 (Jul 17, 2009)

In Feb. purchased a 05 3/4ton GMC and the GM dealer wired in a Tekonsha Voyager.  I have had no problems with the brake controller and have used it on our single axle dump about 3 tons fully loaded.  My buddys tandum axle dump about 5tons fully loaded and my brothers 27ft camping trailer maybe 3.5tons.   With that said my 6.0L V-8 likes to burn gas and lets face it I bought it to haul wood not to get good fuel economy, I will only use it for 5-6k per year so I don't really worry about that. This vehical was an up grade from a 97 Ranger 4.0 V-6 5speed so it is hard for me to compare my old wood hauler to the new one!

My company car is a 2008 Ford Expedition EL with the 5.8L V-8 Trition, never a problem with it and almost 30K but never used it to tow. we seem to get around 16-19 mpg with it

Our Family car is a 05 Dodge Durango with a 4.7L V-8 and I have used it tow our small box trailer less than a ton and to tow the 2 snowmobiles in the winter also less than a ton, never have had a problem with the drivetrain but the some of the crap that Dodge did it makes you wonder what the engineers/designers were paid for!  We seem to get around 16-20mpg if you follow the speed limit and take it easy.


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## Backroads (Jul 17, 2009)

deerefanatic said:
			
		

> I'll throw in on this conversation because I feel I have a position that many of you don't.. I'm a mechanic.
> 
> I will say up front that I'm a chevy guy..... You all know that i'm a "somehting" guy, so I'll be open on my brand preference.
> 
> ...



Just wanted to add to what deere said, also myself a mechanic.  And upfront I am a "Ford" truck fan.

He's right to warn you about the 5.4L spitting the spark plugs in trucks.  Research it online.  It's a known problem that's costly if you don't have a warranty.  It's not for certain it will happen and Ford has sold a ton of these trucks, but none the less it's something to think about.  And just about all new vehicles are a pain to work on under the hood.

I agree with the transmissions being fairly equal, ONLY if maintained.  There's always the exception but I strongly believe some preventive service is necessary depending on driving habits.  Filter and oil every so often is much cheaper than a rebuild/replace.  As for the tow haul modes, my F250 has it and I only use it when I tow on the highway unless I got something really heavy.  Overdrive is NOT designed to pull and therefore I highly recommend not using it while towing any significant weight.

I would suggest the Prodigy for you for towing.  If you are not towing often I believe it's an easier more user friendly unit.  It's based almost exactly as the voyager just in a fancier package.  If you want to save a few bucks(I think about $30) the voyager is a good bet though.  Also I have heard nothing but good experiences with the Ford's integrated controller.  And like explained, it's a breeze to hook up with the proper wiring harness.

Interior wise, it's all personal preference.  I like mine and am very happy with it with no complaints and I dislike the Chevy's.  I know many people with the same or opposite opinion.

Definately go with the factory tow package with either truck, you'll be happier in the long run than trying to piece it together.

If you are for certain you will only be towing/hauling the amount you suggest the 1/2 sounds like a good bet for you. 

Chevy or Ford...Ford or Chevy...Test drive them both!!  Research them.  Find your best deal that makes you happy.  Then make your decision.  

And from a fellow New Englander, South sounds good to me too!  I drive I95 everyday, it is disgusting what the salt in the winter does to all of the vehicles up here.  Good luck and remember to be an educated buyer and you will most likely get the best deal!


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## deerefanatic (Jul 17, 2009)

Backroads is right on all counts here...... It comes down alot to personal preference...........

I will add though that new Chevy's are a LITTLE easier to work on under the hood than fords......  (Just givin' yah grief man......)

All in all, the point I was trying to get across is that they both have good and bad points, but that half-ton trucks definitely are up to the task as workers, and for occasional heavy use, they'll take it. I might add that no matter what size truck you get, I HIGHLY recommend air helper springs...... They take a tremendous load off of your main springs, prolonging their life, and add to your load hauling ability too....... Point in case, I put my EKO 60 in the back of my half-ton....all the way to the back of the bed........ Nobody else with a stock half-ton is going to get away with that! And it sat level!


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## daveswoodhauler (Jul 17, 2009)

north of 60 said:
			
		

> By the looks of that trailer in your photo I dont think technically you can call that camping. Your gonna have to call that home-ing. :lol: In any case what ever you do on desending on hills always start slow and you will end up slower at the bottom with the least amount of strain on your breaking system. Drop it out of drive and into a lower gear even before you crest the hill. The only away around that is a 3/4 ton or 1 ton with an exhaust/engine brake on a diesel engine. Good luck and safe travels with your new to you purchase.
> N of 60



Ah, knew I would get some flax regarding the camping term....prior to kids, my wife and I used to backpack camp and stay in leanto's...well, after three kids later we were going to get a popup, but my inlaws decided to buy a 21 footer that we could use. Funny, I remember my wife being 8 months pregnant with our third....and she suggested that we should probably get an air mattress  She is a trooper.

I have some time on my hands, and I can find F150's and C1500's around quite a bit, but since I have some time and am in no hurry, I am also looking at the F250's and the C2500's....seems to be a small decrease in gas mileage between the 2, and since I work st home 3 days/week I only put around 150 miles on the vehicle a week. A F250/C2500 may be a little more than I need, but better more than less, right?


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## deck2 (Jul 17, 2009)

My friend has a F250 with the 7.2? Powerstroke,  He likes to bust my stones about the whole Ford-GM deal, but in his opinion the major advantage of the Ford is the solid front axle, but he really uses that truck for hauling!  But his truck was down a few weeks ago and he need to move some equipment so he did end up using my GMC for a few days to move some equipment and he had to admit it wasn't that bad except the shot to his FORD Ego!


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## boostnut (Jul 17, 2009)

When looking at the chevy's keep your eyes out for a Z71 (if you're looking for 4wd). They typically have the towing package with a hitch, 7 pin connector, and trans cooler. I'll also agree that the prodigy brake controller is the way to go. If you're not comfortable installing it yourself than I wouldn't think it would cost much to have a mechanic put it in, it takes less than an hour for joe homeowner to do one. Do your homework, look at the durability and typicall life of the 5.3 offered in the chevys. There are many, many 5.3 litre trucks running around with 200K+ on them. Tells me GM got something right.


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## Dune (Jul 17, 2009)

Just a quick second of the 2500 v 1500 suggestion. Considering you will have a truck, it would be nice to have some weight capacity. The 2500 also are far better for hauling trailers, and generaly last longer too.


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## daveswoodhauler (Jul 17, 2009)

Dunebilly said:
			
		

> Just a quick second of the 2500 v 1500 suggestion. Considering you will have a truck, it would be nice to have some weight capacity. The 2500 also are far better for hauling trailers, and generaly last longer too.



Yup, I am really looking at the 3/4 ton models....this truck is going to be my ride for a long/long time...and although the trailer right now is a 21 footer....it might be a little larger down the road when the boys get older.
Plus I'll really like the piece of mind when putting some heavy stuff in the back and not having to worry about it as mush as I would with a 1/2 ton.
Thanks for the help


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## Dix (Jul 17, 2009)

I tihnk your making a good decision there.

Way better to be over trucked than under trucked. I contemplated the F150, but knew I really wanted a gooseneck trailer, so opted for the F250 and haven't looked back. Got that goosneck, too


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## daveswoodhauler (Jul 17, 2009)

Yeah, I've got time on my hands....so plenty of time to look and I am no rush.
Actually hoping that gas prices take a "temporary" climb, as I would love to see the prices I saw on trucks last May/June/...crazy prices...wish to see them again. My current ride is appx 9 years old...and I'm thinking the truck is going to be around that timeframe as well...probably more.
My wife is going to hate driving the beast....but then again, I am not crazy about driving the minivan either


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## Highbeam (Jul 17, 2009)

Okay then one more thing, if you're looking at 3/4 or one ton models always buy the one ton in a single rear wheel configuration. It is the same truck as the 3/4 ton but it has more than 1000 lbs extra payload capacity. That's worth a few extra bucks since that could be almost double the utility. For example, my F350 weighs 7500#s and has a GVWR of 9900 for a payload of 2400#s. That's great. If I had the same truck in an F250 with the 8800 lb GVWR then I could only haul 1300# which is not even a single ton of pellet fuel, not even a half cord of firewood. 

Another very important thing is the bed height. You mention 9 year old trucks and my F350 is 9 years old. The bed height is very very high from the factory. The chevy product is much lower. This makes loading firewood and motorcycles much easier.

My 2000 diesel F350 gets the same or better mpg as my 1998 chevy K1500 with the gas 350 did. It actually gets 20-30% better mileage when towing. 

We love the ford crew cab, it's very big and my two girls have plenty of space.


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## daveswoodhauler (Jul 17, 2009)

Thanks Highbeam...I'm basically looking at models 2004-2007 or so....the 9 years is basically how long plan on keeping it.
Good thoughts on your experience though...right now, I am debating between the super cabs and the crew cabs. (Need to fit 5 at a min)


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## Dix (Jul 17, 2009)

I have the Super Cab ( I think that's what they call it) seats 6 with center console lifted & suicide doors. Not a ton of leg room in the back, but then I'm tall, and have the seat back about as far as it can go.


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## Dune (Jul 17, 2009)

I have the 3500 single rear wheel. It will hold more weight of firewood than there is room to stack it. I run the E rated tires. Not only do they hold more weight, they are less likely to get a leak. I like the fact that my weight capacity is larger than my cargo area(utility bed).


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## deck2 (Jul 18, 2009)

I test drove at least 20 different trucks, with the wife and kids and I noticed that the crew cab was a lot bigger than the ext/supercab trucks, I also like not having to open the front door to open the rear door!

We drove Dodges, Toyotas, Fords, Chevys and even a Nissan and the GMC had what I wanted with very little mileage and no wear and tear.  Plus the Dealership gave me the right price and replaced the factory tires with 25K with new E-Load tires.  This is the first time that I have bought a Car/Truck and felt like I got a good deal.  Not to mention I justified buying it to the wife buy using it to help heat the house.  Plus I finally don't have to keep looking under the truck to check the spings after loading every armfull of wood! 

I had the oppertunity to drive my old truck (97 Ranger/Mazda B-4000) last weekend (my brother in law now owns it) Boy was that thing small.  I couldn't believe that I used to drive that matchbox. To be fair though I hauled a lot of wood and towed a lot of miles with it.


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## JeffRey30747 (Jul 18, 2009)

The crew cab was the one thing that I wanted that I don't have on my F-350 but I feel like I got a good deal on the extended cab and it is a good compromise. I'm not in the back seat that much so I don't notice the amount of space/legroom much but I do know that I can't put my 9 month old daughter's car seat in the middle of the rear seat and still raise the console to seat three across in the front. I would have been able to do that with the crew cab but since it is more of a work truck to me, the need to do that hasn't occurred.
If you are looking at Ford in the model years you list, do some research before considering the 6.0L diesel (late 2003 production until early 2007 models). It has a rather questionable reputation. Some owners that I know have experiened only minor problems. Others are just nightmares to hear about. It sounds like you would probably opt for the gas engine but I wanted to throw this out just in case.


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## Backroads (Jul 18, 2009)

JeffRey30747 said:
			
		

> If you are looking at Ford in the model years you list, do some research before considering the 6.0L diesel (late 2003 production until early 2007 models). It has a rather questionable reputation. Some owners that I know have experiened only minor problems. Others are just nightmares to hear about. It sounds like you would probably opt for the gas engine but I wanted to throw this out just in case.



The 6.0L is a toss up.  I have one I bought new and have had very little problems with it, in almost 125,000.  My friends 04 has been troubled with little gremlins for the past year or so, but that's because chooses to go to a local mechanic instead of a diesel tech(There's a BIG difference) and he doesn't do ANY maintenance on it.  Other's are exactly what JeffRey stated.  Head gaskets, head gaskets, and more head gaskets...  Ford will warranty it under 100,000 for $100 or you can get the factory extended for 7yr/200,000 and it costs nothing.  Then again, I personally know 2 people with Duramaxs that lost their motor's with less than 50,000, both were warrantied but they both got rid of them for Fords soon after.  If you are a little more flexible in the years you may want to look at the 1999-2002 Ford's with the 7.3L.  They are the same body style truck as the 2003-2007 with minor exceptions.  I have seen a few with low miles.  Very relieable with the exception of the CPS which Ford recalled.  Again research and you will find more info.

Also agree with Dixie...I'd also rather have more truck than not enough.  I went with the 250 because at the time I really only needed a 1/2 ton.  But after test driving the gas vs. diesel it was a no brainer to go with the diesel.  The biggest downfall for any of the diesel today are the emission equipment.  The diesel engine isn't the cleanest of creatures and it doesn't liked to be choked down with EGRs, filters, and cats.  

Keep us posted on what you look at and if you find anything good!


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## Dix (Jul 18, 2009)

Just got back from Home Depot.

Get an 8 foot bed

My neighbor bought a Dodge with a 6 foot bed, and he's smashed his back window twice with his camper. Really regrets not getting the 8 footer


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## Dune (Jul 18, 2009)

Doing The Dixie Eyed Hustle said:
			
		

> Just got back from Home Depot.
> 
> Get an 8 foot bed
> 
> My neighbor bought a Dodge with a 6 foot bed, and he's smashed his back window twice with his camper. Really regrets not getting the 8 footer



Ditto


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## deck2 (Jul 18, 2009)

Looked at a crew cab with the 8ft box, but man was that baby long so I decided on a 6ft box most often I am using the trailer anyways.


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## Dix (Jul 18, 2009)

Think toting around plywood & sheetrock, lumber, etc.

It's going to be wayyy longer with the truck & any extended cab, anways. My rig is 39'. At that point, 2 feet less makes no differance in turning, etc. If you ever put a gooseneck/ 5th wheel hitch in it for oh, say a different trailer, a 6' bed isn't going to cut it. And you won't have broken windows  ;-) Some times you have to purposely jack the trailer to get into a tight spot. Truck & trailer will not collide with the extra length. Well, they could, but that's a rarity 

You get used to it in a jiffy. It's cool. people get their cars out of your way. When the lane channels from 2 to 1, you slide over and take up 1/2 of each lane and no one passes you. Except the occassional crotch rocket   :coolgrin: 

An 8' bed was at the top of my list when I was starting this process.


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## North of 60 (Jul 18, 2009)

If your contemplating a diesel... try and find A Cummins 12 valve with the inline bosh fuel pump. You will have a real reliable winner. My 1997 Dodge has over 300,000 and not a hiccup. My environment is harsh and the truck has proven well.


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## Gooserider (Jul 19, 2009)

I've been contemplating getting a box truck or panel van instead of a pickup...  I don't care for the fact that a pickup is open and essentially gives no secure storage for tools or cargo...  OTOH, a 12-18' box truck w/ one of the small diesels seems like it offers lots of capacity, the ability to tow a large trailer (if needed) and security for whatever you are hauling...

I have a friend w/ one of these who quite regularly loads it up and hooks it to one of his dual axle dump trailers with a couple cords of wood in it, and no problems.  May not be the fastest thing in the world, but so what... (Remember the bumper sticker - I may be slow, but I'm ahead...)

Gooserider


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## deck2 (Jul 19, 2009)

Hey Goose, If I was only going to use it to move things a box truck would be the ticket, but I don't want to drive a box truck to work or take it to the grocery store or take the wife out to dinner in it.


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## Gooserider (Jul 19, 2009)

deck2 said:
			
		

> Hey Goose, If I was only going to use it to move things a box truck would be the ticket, but I don't want to drive a box truck to work or take it to the grocery store or take the wife out to dinner in it.



Agreed, the GF has her own car, and I have the bikes for most running around...  The truck would basically be just as a working vehicle for scrounging wood, and getting my hands on those items that we can't pick up otherwise...

Gooserider


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## JustWood (Jul 19, 2009)

Gooserider said:
			
		

> I've been contemplating getting a box truck or panel van instead of a pickup...  I don't care for the fact that a pickup is open and essentially gives no secure storage for tools or cargo...  OTOH, a 12-18' box truck w/ one of the small diesels seems like it offers lots of capacity, the ability to tow a large trailer (if needed) and security for whatever you are hauling...
> 
> I have a friend w/ one of these who quite regularly loads it up and hooks it to one of his dual axle dump trailers with a couple cords of wood in it, and no problems.  May not be the fastest thing in the world, but so what... (Remember the bumper sticker - I may be slow, but I'm ahead...)
> 
> Gooserider



My next truck will be a OTR truck with a sleeper and a  dump. My 03 F350 only gets 8-10MPG. I'm sure 450HP turned down to 350 will get 10 MPG around town. 
Repairs I can't do myself (specialized tools) on my 350 are eating me up. I can put tires and brakes on a big truck for the same or less than a 1-ton and they last about 4 times as long.
 When my wife and I go out to dinner or shopping I always schedule a wood delivery to go to the same general area so mileage isn't a huge concern. The life of my vehicle is. Right now big trucks are a dime a dozen and repos are even cheaper.


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## deck2 (Jul 19, 2009)

ilikewood started this post just thinkin of gettin a 1/2 ton pick-up and now we have talked him from that to a commerical dump with a sleeper :coolgrin:  If i try to pull that one over on my wife and I would be lucky to get the woodcart in ilikewood's avatar !!


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## SolarAndWood (Jul 20, 2009)

I had to get rid of my FILs single axle dump because my insurance company wont let me put anything over 14000 lbs GVWR on my policy unless its an RV.  I got $5K for his International 25999 GVWR in good shape.  Painful.  I suppose the dump trailer is more appropriate for my purposes anyway.


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## JustWood (Jul 20, 2009)

deck2 said:
			
		

> ilikewood started this post just thinkin of gettin a 1/2 ton pick-up and now we have talked him from that to a commerical dump with a sleeper :coolgrin:  If i try to pull that one over on my wife and I would be lucky to get the woodcart in ilikewood's avatar !!



You can buy some fleet maintaned, good condition late model OTR trucks right now around 10 years old & 500,000 miles for around $10-15K. It's nothing for a OTR truck to go 1,000,000 miles anymore.
I was at an auction a month ago and watched a '93 Western Star (top of the line truck) day cab (no sleeper) go for $3200. Needed minor work, new set of tires and a frame blast and paint.Nothing I couldn't do in my shop.


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## daveswoodhauler (Jul 20, 2009)

deck2 said:
			
		

> ilikewood started this post just thinkin of gettin a 1/2 ton pick-up and now we have talked him from that to a commerical dump with a sleeper :coolgrin:  If i try to pull that one over on my wife and I would be lucky to get the woodcart in ilikewood's avatar !!



Actually, it was a test to see how off post the topic would go.
I am very surprised that the idea of purchasing a 40' Winnebego with a tow behind dump/rolloff trailer has not been brought up yet


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## JustWood (Jul 20, 2009)

Wasn't trying to talk anyone into anything. Just sayin' I'm tired of being held hostage by the Ford garage/mechanics because I don't have specialized tools when all the work on OTR trucks can be done with basic hand tools.
Ford and the UAW can kiss my azz and keep their junk. I'll buy big and maintain myself for alot less. AND make money with my vehicle. %-P


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## Highbeam (Jul 20, 2009)

I would NOT want a long bed on a ford crew cab truck. That would be way way too long. It's one thing if you live out in a farm town in the country where everything is built for semi trucks but for suburban driving to the supermarket or even into the city where the roads are built for Honda Civics you will be fighting every single inside corner with its sharp radius curb and every stupid parking lot isle that is 18' wide when your crew cab.long bad is 22' long. It's bad enough dealing with width when the parking stall is 10 feet wide when your mirrors are 9 feet apart. 

The long bed on a dodge crew cab is more reasonable since the dodge crew cab is much smaller. 

You will only break your window out if you deserve to break your window out and the short bed can easily haul 8' material if you set your tailgate down. Note that 6.5' plus the 1.5 foot tailgate gives you 8.


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## daveswoodhauler (Jul 20, 2009)

Highbeam said:
			
		

> I would NOT want a long bed on a ford crew cab truck. That would be way way too long. It's one thing if you live out in a farm town in the country where everything is built for semi trucks but for suburban driving to the supermarket or even into the city where the roads are built for Honda Civics you will be fighting every single inside corner with its sharp radius curb and every stupid parking lot isle that is 18' wide when your crew cab.long bad is 22' long. It's bad enough dealing with width when the parking stall is 10 feet wide when your mirrors are 9 feet apart.
> 
> The long bed on a dodge crew cab is more reasonable since the dodge crew cab is much smaller.
> 
> You will only break your window out if you deserve to break your window out and the short bed can easily haul 8' material if you set your tailgate down. Note that 6.5' plus the 1.5 foot tailgate gives you 8.



Yup, I agree with you there...my FIL old truck was a Dodge 2500 with an 8 ft bed...that thing was a beast to park. I don't need an 8ft bed, as I won't be hauling drywall/plywood, etc....I'm basically looking at the crew cabs (the ones with the doors that open from the inside and are hidden...and a 6 to 6.5' bed.


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## Dune (Jul 21, 2009)

Dude! tow behind dump-roll off...drool. The local BFI had a 70,000# GVW Mack roll off with a flat bed and brand new rear springs that they wanted to sell me for $2500, running, driving. Still wish I'd bought it.


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## SolarAndWood (Jul 21, 2009)

Drove by this one on the Thruway tonight...traffic was backed up for miles, luckily in the other direction.  When I went by the first time, they were trying to pick up what looked like files all over the median.  When I came back a few hours later, they had a skid steer filling a couple 25 yard dumpsters and they were driving a payloader out to finish the job.  What a mess.  That was a big trailer behind a pickup truck.  I can only imagine what it felt like to have that trailer roll over and crush itself while still connected to the tow vehicle.

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2009/07/four_injured_in_thruway_crash.html


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## Highbeam (Jul 21, 2009)

So to be clear a crew cab means there are four regular doors with their own handles that all open independently the same direction so that you enter from the rear. This is good for many reasons. The rear seats are huge for regular people.

An extended cab is smaller than a crew cab and also has four doors but the rear doors can only be opened after the front doors have been opened. The rear doors have their hinges at the cab's rear. This sucks in a parking lot since to load gear into the back seat of the cab you need to have both doors open and when both doors are open you are stuck in the middle without access to the cart. An extended cab is a huge step better than a regular cab but is not nearly as good as a crew cab.

The regular cab is just a single. Old school. Two doors.

So you want an extended cab short bed? That's the shortest full sized 3/4 or one ton that you can buy. They only make regular cab short beds in half ton flavor. Finding an ECSB will be somewhat difficult since the ECSB is rare. Sure, they are out there but it is like finding a regular cab. Just not that common.


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## Valhalla (Jul 21, 2009)

Choose your brand!

My choices in order are:

1. Chevy/GMC
2. Ford
3. Dodge

Love diesel, but it is your choice. I would not tow without a diesel.

Good luck, choose wisely and shop carefully!


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## SolarAndWood (Jul 21, 2009)

I think the 3/4 ton Suburban is the shortest 3/4 ton you can buy with 4 doors.  If you keep your utility trailer for wood hauling, you will have a tow vehicle capable of 8 passengers and you can put sheet goods in if you lay the back seat down.  My wife doesn't mind driving it either.


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## deck2 (Jul 21, 2009)

Highbeem, GM Still makes 3/4ton reg cab in a long box and if you can find one a few years old in short box also.


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## daveswoodhauler (Jul 21, 2009)

Highbeam said:
			
		

> So to be clear a crew cab means there are four regular doors with their own handles that all open independently the same direction so that you enter from the rear. This is good for many reasons. The rear seats are huge for regular people.
> 
> An extended cab is smaller than a crew cab and also has four doors but the rear doors can only be opened after the front doors have been opened. The rear doors have their hinges at the cab's rear. This sucks in a parking lot since to load gear into the back seat of the cab you need to have both doors open and when both doors are open you are stuck in the middle without access to the cart. An extended cab is a huge step better than a regular cab but is not nearly as good as a crew cab.
> 
> ...



You are correct...as I got my terms mixed up. I am looking for an extended cab, with perhaps a 6 1/2 bed or 7'...not sure what is made by who.
This vehicle is not going to be the primary people hauler....have the Honda Odyssey that takes care of that. I am trying to find a balance between room in the cab, and a decent sized bed...and the problem I see with the crew cabs is that if I go that route with a decent sized bed, its going to be like a bus to park.  (I don't mind, but Mrs's will from time to time) Basically, I need to get down to a few dealers and just give a few a test drive to see what feels best for me.


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## Dix (Jul 21, 2009)

What? I like parking in the "Outer Limits" of the parking lot, and then having to push a cart full of groceries, in slush, all the way back out to where I parked.

Atleast the suicide doors aren't an issue when I'm unloading that cart all the way over yonder.

 ;-P 

Seriously, if a 6 footer works for you guys, that's awesome. For me, it wasn't going to cut it. The "beasts" job it to tow, and it does it beautifully.

I had 1/2 of a huge black cherry tree cut into rounds in it a few weeks ago, and didn't even have to put it in "tow/haul". Pretty sweet.

I will also recommend a bed liner. Other wise the bed gets scratched to hell from everything under the sun. Even bags from the supermarket  :long:


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## woodsman23 (Jul 22, 2009)

Just go out and get a 95-99 F150 with 3.73 gears. This truck will out haul anything else in its class. The i6 4.9 is a workhorse (pre 1997)and will last forever. I tow all the time with my 4.6 4x4 5 speed manual and it just goes. 296xxx+ miles on it.
















	

		
			
		

		
	
  with 1 ton of pellets in back.


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## Dix (Jul 22, 2009)

How was the "stopping" ?


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## deck2 (Jul 22, 2009)

Woodsman
She looks a little overloaded with the pellets on her!! Talk about a dangerous load, Where I am we have bluestone quarries all over and I see guys with ton+ loads in their half ton trucks and I hope I am not in front of them when they are coming down from the mountians in to town! hh:


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## mbokie5 (Jul 22, 2009)

woodsman23 said:
			
		

> Just go out and get a 95-99 F150 with 3.73 gears. This truck will out haul anything else in its class. The i6 4.9 is a workhorse (pre 1997)and will last forever. I tow all the time with my 4.6 4x4 5 speed manual and it just goes. 296xxx+ miles on it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Completely agree. I have a 96 F150 4x4 that is as tough as they come. We went down atv and skidoo trails this past spring and it came out like a champ in every case. Climbed over trees, went through some deep puddles and the only time I got stuck was in a plowed field in a very low spot. Got out with plywood. 

I did put one extra spring on the leaf springs and that improved hauling abilty by a lot. Things that used to cause the bed to rest on the axle are now around 4" - 8" above the axle. 

IIRC, the '96 was the last of $127 ball joints. I use it rough, but I also look after it. It needs a new stabiliser arm on the drivers side and a new starter. I go through one starter a year, but it has a lifetime guarantee so it only costs the time it takes to replace it.

It's very hard to beat an older F150 for the price. I got mine with just less than 80k clicks on it.


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## Flatbedford (Jul 22, 2009)

I'd say go with a 3/4 tons for any significant towing or hauling. You get bigger brakes (most important) higher rated tires, and a stronger drivetrain. A 3/4 ton being under worked will hold up much better than an overworked 1/2 ton. If you do go 3/4 ton and you go with a Ford, don't rule out Ford's best kept secret, the 6.8 V10. It makes almost as much power as the diesel without the noise and smell or the more complicated and expensive maintenance needs of the diesel such as many quart oil changes, water separating filters, and fuel gelling in the cold weather. My '00 F250 supercab with the V10 and auto is a towing and hauling beast. Fuel mileage is less than diesel, but if you aren't putting that many miles on the truck, the overall fuel cost versus the possible complications of the diesel my even out. I know that the diesel guys may not agree with me, but you did ask for opinions. The V10 may also be cheaper to buy than a diesel.


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