# Heating a Treehouse



## luludahl (Sep 21, 2007)

Hiya,

Just wanted a general opinion of the best stove (or other) to heat my 100 sq ft treehouse.  It's 8' x 12', 13' tall with a sleeping loft a lots of glass and no insulation (yet?).  For electric is has a small solar panel and a deep cycle battery.  It's in the catskill mountains so it gets pretty cold but I'm not sure I'd sleep in it in the dead of winter with the wind and all.  I want an efficient little stove that's safe.  Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.  

Thanks,
Lulu


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## stoveguy2esw (Sep 21, 2007)

i'll be honest , i do not know if there is even a guideline for what could be used in that application, (neat looking house though i think its kool!) pellet is likely out due to power constraints, so wood would be alternative, gas doesnt seem feasable , but may be doable, although the tank would have to be on the ground. maybe elk or sombody might know if there is a guideline for a woodstove in a tree house. i dunno where to go with this. would also be interesting to know what the flue requirements would be , especially with the trees surrounding the home the way they do. wish i could be more helpful, hopefully sombody in here will be able to advise you better than i can.

EDIT: is it actually built in a tree or on stilts anchored in the ground , cant really tell from the picture but that would be important to know


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## luludahl (Sep 21, 2007)

Yes, it is indeed a toughie seeing as though the structure itself isn't legal.  The house and deck sit on top (unattached) three beams that are mounted by GL (it's specific to treehouse building) brackets to each tree.  The stilts (5 of them) are there as added support to the beams though they aren't attached.  Essentially everything is touching.  Think suspension system.  

The deck, however, is 150 sq ft so it may be possible to route the chimney out a way that would leave the trees unscathed.  The largest distance between trees is 25'.  

Thanks,
Lulu


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## stoveguy2esw (Sep 21, 2007)

wow , this is gonna be a tough one, im back to im not sure where to go with this. is this going to be a habitat or just a weekender. either way im not sure a woodstove would be a good idea. take into account also that i have exactly ZERO experience with the type structure you have here, but my gut is telling me that a woodstove may not be a good idea although i may be wrong, but sombody who knows a lot more than me about this structure needs to advise you on this. i am not qualified. man's gotta know his limitations. im sorry i cant be more helpful hopefully one of the pro's in here can help you.


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## Harley (Sep 21, 2007)

I gotta admit - that does look kind of neat, but I'm thinking there's no aproved application for a setup like that - it is unique.

For heating - I guess I'd recommend long underwear and blankets.


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## n6crv (Sep 21, 2007)

What about one of the wood stoves that are made for tents? I have seen some that the chimney and flue pipe all kind of fold together for storage. 
Don


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## nshif (Sep 21, 2007)

How would you even get firewood up there?? is there an elevator??? how do you even get up there or better yet how did you get the building materials up there. That is just to cool, which I suppose is why you need to heat it.


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## stoveguy2esw (Sep 21, 2007)

actually , maybe a direct vent gas wall unit. provided it could be run off a smaller tank like an "rv" tank 50 lb tank, would probably be only good if this is a "weekender"  that way the tank could be up there as well. a large tank with this thing possibly swaying around is a no-go with gas lines coming from the ground due to working lines possibly creating a leak , gas line would have to be able to move and im not thinking that would be a good idea. im just shooting in the dark on this one.


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## BrotherBart (Sep 21, 2007)

Small outdoor wood boiler on the ground with the hot water piped up to the treehouse.


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## senorFrog (Sep 21, 2007)

I think it's way cool!

I'd get something *Low Cost, High Value * like an Englander.  Make sure it's steel because it will weigh less.  I'm sure you could use some block and tackle and get it up there.  Same for firewood.  Go to a Boats US or West Marine and pick up some good block and tackle w/braided or nylon line.  

Hell, if your in MASS I'll give you a hand.  The .gov can eff the hell off and shove the permits right up their a$$.  Power to the People!


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## MrGriz (Sep 21, 2007)

That is very cool!  You can definitely throw the words "approved", "code" and "standard" out the window on this one.  This gets back to good old fashioned garage engineering.

I would say that as small a steel stove as you can find would be the answer.  Just how air tight is that place?  The idea of a stove designed for a tent is a great one.


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## stoveguy2esw (Sep 21, 2007)

[quote author="senorFrog" date="1190427467"]I think it's way cool!

I'd get something cheap like an Englander.  ![/quote


i prefer "inexpensive" im kinda proud of our product line

but then cheap is faster to type, so no offense really taken bro.


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## KeithO (Sep 21, 2007)

I think using some kind of liquid fuel would be best for highest BTU/lb of weight.    I would consider modifying kerosene burning products to take diesel, since the diesel fuel is by itself a lot safer and less combustible / volatile than kerosene.  And if you get 2007 reduced sulphur (on highway) diesel, it will also not have the bad smell previously associated with diesel.


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## senorFrog (Sep 21, 2007)

stoveguy2esw, no offense intended.  I fixed my post.  They look like a great stove to me.  If I was in the loop, I might have gone that route.


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## stoveguy2esw (Sep 22, 2007)

senorFrog said:
			
		

> stoveguy2esw, no offense intended.  I fixed my post.  They look like a great stove to me.  If I was in the loop, I might have gone that route.



hey bro, i was just yankin your chain , i actually do appreciate your mentioning my product and i understand your meaning , i was just playing, but dont get me wrong i am extremely proud of the product we field at ESW i have stated here in this forum that "bang for the buck , i'll put our line up against anyone in the industry" no hard feeling here man.


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## luludahl (Sep 22, 2007)

thanks for all the ideas!  i was definitely kicking around the idea of either the little cod (http://www.marinestove.com/codinfo.htm) because it seems to be made for movement or a small camp stove (though are they more dangerous?).  seeing as though it's only 100 sq ft, i reckon anything i get is going to heat it more than adequately.  

to answer some questions: i'm pretty married to the idea of burning wood; the structure is relatively airtight but there's no insulation and lots of glass (the walls are 12" rough cut shiplap); it is only a weekender house for now.   

and as for how i get things up to that deck:


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## stoveguy2esw (Sep 22, 2007)

no kidding thats a cute little bugger, and epa certified too. i didnt know aabout that little stove , glad you posted it , nice specs for a little unit too. interesting though , i didnt see any outside the dwelling pipe on thier site , granted i just took a quick peek (bookmarked for later)  but if a woodstove is viable somthing like this is the best candidate IMHO


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## luludahl (Sep 22, 2007)

oh.. and it was built by me, two carpenter friends, a generator and a whole mess of patience.  the previous owner had the land 'selectively' (= 40 of my oldest trees) logged 3 days before i closed on it so i tried to incorporate as much of the downed trees he left behind into the building process.  that was the least i could do just short of suing his ass.


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## jpl1nh (Sep 22, 2007)

luludahl, absolutely unique and very cool!  You took my childhood playspace and grew it up!  How do you use it?  Is it a vacation spot?  Hunting, fishing?  I get the impression you don't reside there.  And I must say that "little cod" is really cool too.  I was gonna recommend Woodstock Stove's "mini franklin" but its a gas stove and the little cod looks like a really good option.


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## Gooserider (Sep 22, 2007)

Cool treehouse for sure, and I was also going to suggest the Little Cod - figured it's designed for boats so probably a bit better on clearances and such than the bigger stoves, and probably a good match for the area.  Probably won't give tremendously long burns, but I don't see any way around that.

Gooserider


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## senorFrog (Sep 22, 2007)

I'd get that insulation up fast!  Especially underneath the floor.  

Please post some pics when finished.

I understand the reluctance to say, but more or less where are you located?  Pacific northwest?


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## Corie (Sep 22, 2007)

Hey Mike, wouldn't it be neat if we made one of those?  It would have to run on a 4 inch chimney though, but still a little one room heater would be pretty nifty.


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## elkimmeg (Sep 22, 2007)

Tree house like that beats a sling sitting in a tree hunting  just stick the gun out the window. Oh do remember to open it up first.


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## senorFrog (Sep 22, 2007)

I get the feeling that lulu isn't much of a hunter.


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## luludahl (Sep 22, 2007)

hahahaha you couldn't be more right senorFrog, not a lick of hunter in me.  i do fish the bass out of my pond on a rare occasion.  

the house is in the catskill mountains in upstate, ny.  so it gets cold!  i think i've narrowed it down to these:

http://marinestove.com/sardineinfo.htm

http://www.highcountrysupply.com/Item Pages/Cylinder_Stoves.html 

i'd go with the 'scout' on the last link but something in it's look doesn't fill me with so much confidence in that an ember wouldn't fly outta somewhere?  hhhhm.  if i go with the sardine i'll just spend a weekend insulating and that little guy will probably do the trick, no?


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## Hogwildz (Sep 22, 2007)

Those maine stove are great looking! Built in America also (Elk)!
For the tree house why not get the "halibut" and then you can cook yerself some dinner in the treehouse also


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## luludahl (Sep 22, 2007)

a very handsome stove indeed but i already have a propane fed cast iron stove that i use for cooking.  and this little house has already cleaned me out!  can't imagine spending another 3k on it.


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## tutu_sue (Sep 22, 2007)

Maybe this squirrel stove is appropriate for a tree house? http://www.morsoe.com/us/Products/Stoves/1400/Model_1410/Morsoe_1410.htm


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## keyman512us (Sep 22, 2007)

jpl1nh said:
			
		

> luludahl, absolutely unique and very cool!  You took my childhood playspace and grew it up!  How do you use it?  Is it a vacation spot?  Hunting, fishing?  I get the impression you don't reside there.  And I must say that "little cod" is really cool too.  I was gonna recommend Woodstock Stove's "mini franklin" but its a gas stove and the little cod looks like a really good option.



I was gonna say about the same as JP so I'll qoute his words. 

That is definately a fullfilment on every kids' childhood dream. Take some more pics and post them by all means.

What is your 'long term' plan lulu??? Are you going to make it "habitable for long stays" or is it just a "weekend getaway" spot??

Do you have...or are you planning to put in "running water" (perhaps a rainwater system)??? Got a few ideas for rainwater use (VERY similiar interests in VT)... So if you do put a thread or two either in the 'Green Room' or the 'Diy/Non Hearth Advice' right here on the forum.

At any rate, keep us posted with pics' and "progress reports"...cool concept.

As far as "stoves"??? I think something along the lines of maybe a Fisher 'baby bear' would be a "good starting point for consideration". I saw one "the other day" so that is what got me thinking of it. 

..."Long term" I would consider BB idea of the "small outdoor boiler". Perhaps a somewhat "modified system". I'm sure somewhat of a "Gravity system" could be incorporated into the picture. If you are going to install "running water" you could use it for "hot water" as well.

Maybe 2 woodburners then??? A "boiler" and a small "room heater" like the 'baby bear'???

As far as a "boiler"??? (Maybe other folks can help out on this one) They make a small "boiler" designed for heating swimming pools the size of a regular wood stove...I'll see if I can find the link.


Ohh Yeah...I almost forgot to mention...Welcome to the Forum lulu!


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## keyman512us (Sep 22, 2007)

Okay..Found it:
http://www.warmwatersolutionsofnewengland.com/3sizeheater

Given the small sized area you have to heat...I would lean towards a boiler/hydronic heat. Might sound like overkill but with "hydronic" you can bank the heat and keep it pretty even. Trying to heat the tree house with a conventional stove is probably gonna produce some "wild fluctuations in temperature" to say the least.


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## Hogwildz (Sep 22, 2007)

Just a thought, have you checked out the lil house heater: http://www.outsidewoodheater.com/page2.html
Could be kept outside on the ground, no room taken up inside, and a supply & return to the tree house.
No lifting wood, no taking up space. Oh crap, you would have to run electric to it.


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## stoveguy2esw (Sep 23, 2007)

Corie said:
			
		

> Hey Mike, wouldn't it be neat if we made one of those?  It would have to run on a 4 inch chimney though, but still a little one room heater would be pretty nifty.




yeah , it looks like a cool little heater.


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## Czech (Sep 23, 2007)

Alright you guys, quit flirting with Lulu and her tree house. Jeez, a boy's dream. Hi Lu, how YOU doing? Seriously as I can be right now, that little boat stove is sweet. Might need to get one of those, I'd never come off the river. I vote for more pictures too, very cool shack Lu.


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## fbelec (Sep 23, 2007)

that is the finest tree house i have ever seen and maybe ever see. that is a real piece of art. i'm surprised it has not made any magazines. i don't know just how small a stove might be out there but how about using coal. coal is suppose to have a lot cooler chimney temps and some stoves that i have seen say that you can turn them down to as low as 5000 btu. a stove that would go down to that low would probably burn for the whole weekend on one load.


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## luludahl (Sep 23, 2007)

glad you all think my little house is cool.  i love it personally but most people cock an eyebrow when you say you've got yourself a treehouse.  if you guys really want to see more pix i have an entire blog dedicated to the building of it:

http://luluiswho.blogspot.com/2007_09_01_archive.html

if you click through the archives starting with june 2006 you can see us building it from day one.  and it is fully sustainable, rain barrell system already in the works.

talked to the nice man at marinestove.com today and he has me fully sold on the sardine (or the little cod if i can scrape up the $$) and i couldn't me more stoked.  now if only i could decide on routing through roof or wall?  hhhhm....

(p.s. august 2006 in the archive has some esp good shots)


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## luludahl (Sep 23, 2007)

oh and the stove i'm getting can also burn coal, i just wanted something that burns wood too cause i have more burnable bramble on my land than i know what to do with.  easy access.


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## tutu_sue (Sep 23, 2007)

Those marine stoves are adorable.  The Morso squirrel also burns coal.  Not sure how much it costs.  You may want to get a bigger stove if you are unisulated and have a high ceiling in there.

Your tree house is awesome.  My uncle and aunt in CA are architects and they designed a tree house out there.  Here's a pic.


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## KP Matt (Sep 23, 2007)

I had an exchange with the owner of Marine Stoves some time ago about EPA certification and efficiency: 

http://pub38.bravenet.com/forum/3213140293/show/567621

not as nice as those Marine Stoves, and who knows about UL or EPA certification, but considerably cheaper, even if shipped from the UK are these stoves:

http://www.windysmithy.co.uk/html/woodburners.htm

some of them with ovens...  Whatever you choose you should look into building a heavy hearth pad/ wall shield set up with as much heat retention as possible - some sort of stone - to counteract the small firebox which all of these little stoves have.

One downside of all these stoves except Marine Stoves' $2500 Halibut is the lack of glass door... Windy Smithy does iron commissions... maybe they would make a special door with a few little windows? Me, I can't wait to trade the old Jotul 118 for a 602 with the latticework door.

Marine Stoves are made in the U.S., but it's my patriotic duty to point out that the design is Canadian!

One of the


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## keyman512us (Sep 24, 2007)

GotzTheHotz said:
			
		

> Alright you guys, quit flirting with Lulu and her tree house. Jeez, a boy's dream. Hi Lu, how YOU doing? Seriously as I can be right now, that little boat stove is sweet. Might need to get one of those, I'd never come off the river. I vote for more pictures too, very cool shack Lu.



A partial apology in part... I didn't even put any signifigance to gender when posting. Perhaps a bit 'selfish' to a degree...to say "a boy's dream...perhaps "any kids childhood dream" would have been more appropriate...

But it's still a kewl tree house!


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## elkimmeg (Sep 24, 2007)

Can I voice a word of caution  one if you plan to sleep there might I remind you you are planning a fuel combustion appliance for heat. There is definitely an issue of  sharing your combustion air with breathing air.  As a rule of thumb for every  1000 BTUs one needs 50 cu ft of room or inside air A 10/10 8' high room has enough combustion air to support 400 btus Not thousands but 400. All suggestions you might have received All in good intent like the Moroso squirrel  measures Btus beyond 10,0000 . I got to run back to work but Safety is a definite factor to consider


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## tutu_sue (Sep 24, 2007)

Yes, Elk the Morso squirrel I suggested is borderline using the combustion air rule of 50 cu ft for every 1,000 btus.  I though it was less cubic feet of air for wood stoves with gaskets.  

Anyhoo, with the 12 x 8 x 13 tree house, I calculated it can support 24,960 btu's, which is kind of close.  Is that correct? My math isn't the greatest. The Morso squirrel is rated at 25,000 btus.  I suggested a bigger stove because of the high ceilings and getting heat up to the sleeping loft.  I did a quickie heat loss using the Slnt/Fin software and calculated >17,000 btu's to maintain a temperature of 70F with 100 sq ft. of windows and doors, no insulation in the walls, roof and the floor being up in the air.  

I don't want lulu to have to sleep right next to the stove like my cat does.


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## pcampbell (Mar 11, 2008)

Can anyone suggest a very small stove to heat a similarly sized area.  The building is a small out building (i.e. a shed) I was thinking of setting up an office in.  12x14.  I recall someone talking about a $99 stove Lowes or Home Depot could hardly give away   The cod is cute but I'm looking budget...


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## Gooserider (Mar 11, 2008)

I can't think of anything particular in a small stove beyond the suggestions you've seen in this thread - there are some tiny Jotul's but they've been mentioned and aren't exactly budget....  The only really cheap stoves that I know of the big box stores selling are the Vogelzang's which are cheap for good reason - I wouldn't want to be anywhere near one...  Some of the BB stores also sell Englanders and Centuries which are great stoves for the money, but mostly aren't that small.  

Trouble is there is a comfortable size range that most stoves fall into, both because of customer demand, and the way the physics of combustion work to encourage a certain minimum size, a 12 x 14 room is pushing that number towards the outside of the low end...

Gooserider


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## savageactor7 (Mar 11, 2008)

When we used our ice fishing tent on the lake I'd always touch off a few 12hr vigil candles and after awhile it was tee shirt time....even warmer if you were catching fish.

btw that's a wicked excellent tree house ya got there.


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## burntime (Mar 11, 2008)

You could darn near get 3 hand warmers and heat the place for 8 hours with that square footage


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## drizler (Mar 11, 2008)

I just noticed this and just have to ask.   WHAT HAPPENED FORGET YOUR WIFES BIRTHDAY, OR DID YOU BUY HER A RIFLE OR ATV FOR HER BIRTHDAY.   These are the things that inspire such great works.   You probably need an electric line and sat tv though to make it habitable as well as a minifridge.   Can't be drinkin warm beer in exile now can we unless its an emergency.  Nice place though, I hope the tax assessor doesn't ding you for another sturcture on your property.


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## tkirk22 (Mar 11, 2008)

Driz said:
			
		

> I just noticed this and just have to ask.   WHAT HAPPENED FORGET YOUR WIFES BIRTHDAY, OR DID YOU BUY HER A RIFLE OR ATV FOR HER BIRTHDAY.   These are the things that inspire such great works.   You probably need an electric line and sat tv though to make it habitable as well as a minifridge.   Can't be drinkin warm beer in exile now can we unless its an emergency.  Nice place though, I hope the tax assessor doesn't ding you for another sturcture on your property.



Driz, You are a genius. I forgot my wife's birthday! Now I'll have to build a cozy little treehouse complete with beer storage and mini heater. I also forgot her birthday last year so I should make a high speed zip line to transport me...errr...ummmm... to transport HER to the cozy treehouse.  Next year I may forget also and have to buy an ATV for 'her' to get home.  LOL

(Yes ladies, we never really grow up ;-)


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## drizler (Mar 12, 2008)

;-)     They used to call that the DOG HOUSE, a piece of real estate that I have inhabited many times.    Best part is we don't have a dog.   Most guys don't have a hunting camp that nice.   Now if you located a pile of carrots about 50 yards out back you could slide one of those windows open, poke the rifle out and............................................


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## Woodrat (Mar 13, 2008)

*       Cool treehouse!!    When I was a kid, we built a 10 X 10 "shack " on stilts out in a swamp-- once we insulated it- the heat from one kerosine lantern was more than enough to drive us out in the dead of winter! Kept a roof hatch open to provide fresh air & bleed off some of the heat.


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