# Wood shed on piers



## Shipper50 (Nov 4, 2008)

I am not a carpenter or builder by any stretch. My question is, if I use concrete piers to put 4x4's on can I build it with just the 4x4 standing without any anchor system? I have looked at many of the shed on here and cant tell if the builder used a plate or anchor to hold the 4x4 post up.

Thanks
Shipper


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## CowboyAndy (Nov 4, 2008)

I wouldnt... my buddies father did that, and we got a nasty wind storm and it picked the whole thing up and moved it 15ft...


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## billb3 (Nov 4, 2008)

Some blocks come in handy down the road  if a corner starts sinking into the ground.
It can be nice to jack up and stick a shim in between.


There are tax differences here between permanent structures and temporary ([re]moveable) structures.


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## daveswoodhauler (Nov 4, 2008)

Shipper50 said:
			
		

> I am not a carpenter or builder by any stretch. My question is, if I use concrete piers to put 4x4's on can I build it with just the 4x4 standing without any anchor system? I have looked at many of the shed on here and cant tell if the builder used a plate or anchor to hold the 4x4 post up.
> 
> Thanks
> Shipper



Shipper, I was going to ask the same question as you, so I will be interested in seeing the responses. Basically, I am looking to build a basic structure of 4X4's and a roof (no walls yet) Was just thinking a typical shed roof...maybe 8 ft in the front sloped to 6 in the rear....was looking at a dimensions of possible 10 x 10 overall...with just pallets on the ground.

Also, not to hijack the post.....but I live in Mass, and I wanted to get some feedback on how far I should dig down for the footings....or perhaps I could go with those prefab type blocks that just rest on the ground and have a space in the middle for a 4x4

If you have a diagram of what you have in mid I would love to see a pic/scan of it.


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## Jags (Nov 4, 2008)

Use the "U" brackets that can be attached to the cement piers and then nailed or screwed into the posts.  You will need something to hold the shed down during high winds.


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## 3fordasho (Nov 4, 2008)

The concrete corner pads are the piers that Shipper is referring to.  Commonly used in deck construction.  
After building this I had the same thought, a good wind is going to tip this thing over.  I did anchor it in the corners with
rebar cemented into the ground.  Course now that it is totally full with 5 cords of wood I don't think it's going anywhere.


http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d75/3fordasho/DSC02765.jpg


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## Shipper50 (Nov 4, 2008)

I want to thank 3fordasho for having the shed he built for me to somewhat copy, he has answered my questions also without complaint.

I worked on my shed a bit today and here is what I have so far. I did have it kinda started before and it fell so I made it bigger and worked the ground with my tiller to make the area more level.

Any help with what you see would be appreciated. My shed will be around 6ft front to back and 15.6 side to side. 8ft in front and slope to 6ft in the back with asphalt shingles on the roof.

Shipper


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## billb3 (Nov 4, 2008)

Sometimes it's better to remove just the topsoil from where the 'piers' will be a and fill that hole with stone or gravel, tamping it down so it is solid and doesn't sink.

Short of hurricane force winds the roof should stay put from the weight of the shingles , or even roll roofing.


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## Rick (Nov 5, 2008)

I dug down about a foot and filled it with processed stone to aid with drainage.  This "shed" is 16' by 6', sloping from 8' to 6'.  It holds about 5 cords, filled correctly.


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## Rick (Nov 5, 2008)

This shows a better angle


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## raybonz (Nov 5, 2008)

3fordasho said:
			
		

> The concrete corner pads are the piers that Shipper is referring to.  Commonly used in deck construction.
> After building this I had the same thought, a good wind is going to tip this thing over.  I did anchor it in the corners with
> rebar cemented into the ground.  Course now that it is totally full with 5 cords of wood I don't think it's going anywhere.
> 
> ...



Hey that shelter looks good.. Similar to what I built.. The lattice looks good and I may do something similar.. I posted my shelter pic a little while back..

Ray


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## Rick (Nov 5, 2008)

I just noticed how similar my shed is to 3fordasho's.  I like the lattice across the front, I may have to make some changes to mine....


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## daveswoodhauler (Nov 5, 2008)

I like the lattice on the sides, but I thinks I would be hitting my head on the lattice on the front. Looks great, and I am looking to build a similar shed. I would just get rid of the lattice on the front.


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## velvetfoot (Nov 5, 2008)

I like your sheds.  I have my wood in the garage now, but I'd feel better if it was in a shed.
I talked to the town bldg dept today and they said anything under 100 ft2 doesn't need a permit, so 16x6 is a good size for me.  
5 cords would also be good.
My ground is pretty slopey though.  I guess I'd have to level it out, taking drainage into account, but it wouldn't be too easy.
Is there a design that would would work with the slope?


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## Bigg_Redd (Nov 5, 2008)

Shipper50 said:
			
		

> I am not a carpenter or builder by any stretch. My question is, if I use concrete piers to put 4x4's on can I build it with just the 4x4 standing without any anchor system? I have looked at many of the shed on here and cant tell if the builder used a plate or anchor to hold the 4x4 post up.
> 
> Thanks
> Shipper



It's very common around here.


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## CowboyAndy (Nov 5, 2008)

So if I can ask the guys who have already built one, how ,uch did it cost you?


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## Shipper50 (Nov 5, 2008)

velvetfoot said:
			
		

> I like your sheds. I have my wood in the garage now, but I'd feel better if it was in a shed.
> I talked to the town bldg dept today and they said anything under 100 ft2 doesn't need a permit, so 16x6 is a good size for me.
> 5 cords would also be good.
> My ground is pretty slopey though. I guess I'd have to level it out, taking drainage into account, but it wouldn't be too easy.
> Is there a design that would would work with the slope?


I live in southern Indiana and I don't think you need a permit for a firewood shed. I didn't look into it as I live in the country and no one knows but me and now 1000's on the net. :lol: 

If you look at my pic, I took my rotor tiller and had to make the area the shed sits on level. As for drainage I will have to wait and see if rain flows off the hill behind the shed, but I don't see that happening.

Shipper


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## billb3 (Nov 5, 2008)

a building permit
and what puts a sparkle in your taxman's eyes can be two different things.


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## smokinj (Nov 5, 2008)

Shipper50 said:
			
		

> I am not a carpenter or builder by any stretch. My question is, if I use concrete piers to put 4x4's on can I build it with just the 4x4 standing without any anchor system? I have looked at many of the shed on here and cant tell if the builder used a plate or anchor to hold the 4x4 post up.
> 
> Thanks
> Shipper


in indiana if you can get in to 4 inchs of clay usally starts at 36inchs you will not need concrete at all just back fill and it will never move or settle


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## 3fordasho (Nov 5, 2008)

CowboyAndy said:
			
		

> So if I can ask the guys who have already built one, how ,uch did it cost you?




I have just under four bills into mine, more than I wanted to spend but had to make it look decent, the neighbors are already bitching about the wood stacks..


In regards to building permits, in my case if I kept it under 120 sq ft I didn't need one.  Ended up at 116 sq ft or so  ;-)


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## Roxburyeric (Nov 6, 2008)

3fordasho:  what kind of tractor is that behind the shed with steel wheels?  I got a 39 John Deere L.


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## woodsman23 (Nov 6, 2008)

I just put on a 12x8ft addition to my 12x14 shed for pellet storage. Got all the lumber from the amish lumber yard cost was ~325.oo with metal roof.


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## jdemaris (Nov 6, 2008)

Shipper50 said:
			
		

> I am not a carpenter or builder by any stretch. My question is, if I use concrete piers to put 4x4's on can I build it with just the 4x4 standing without any anchor system? I have looked at many of the shed on here and cant tell if the builder used a plate or anchor to hold the 4x4 post up.
> 
> Thanks
> Shipper




It's easier and stronger just to use poles direct buried in the ground.  Are you avoiding that type of construction for some reason?  I've got some barns I put in 40 years ago with 6" X 6" CCA treated poles and no rot yet.   Now, CCA is hard to find, and 4" poles suited for direct burial are also rare to non-existant. Many places do sell treat 4" X 4"s, but not properly treated.   Get 6" X 6" poles ACQ or Copper Azole teated to .31 or more, and the shed will outlast you.  Sink them down to the frost line and no wind will ever move the building.


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## Shipper50 (Nov 6, 2008)

woodsman23 said:
			
		

> I just put on a 12x8ft addition to my 12x14 shed for pellet storage. Got all the lumber from the amish lumber yard cost was ~325.oo with metal roof.


Any chance you have pics? I guess me going to my local Lowes and Menards was a mistake as you sure beat my cost so far and I dont have a metal roof.

Shipper


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## Shipper50 (Nov 6, 2008)

jdemaris said:
			
		

> Shipper50 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The reason I went with piers was the last home owner left 4 here and I only had to buy 2 more. Your the second person today to suggest I should have put the up rights in the ground and not have used the piers.

Shipper


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## Rick (Nov 6, 2008)

My shed cost me about $300 for the supplies, but I already had the shingles.  I went with this design basically because it is easier, and being on piers makes it a "non permanent structure" in my town.


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## 3fordasho (Nov 6, 2008)

Roxburyeric said:
			
		

> 3fordasho:  what kind of tractor is that behind the shed with steel wheels?  I got a 39 John Deere L.



Those belong to the nutcase next door that complains about my neatly stacked wood piles.  Here yard is decorated with hundreds of trailer part knick nacks with those steel wheels being some of the better "items".   One of my older neighbors actually likes my wood stacks, reminds her of good ole days ;-)


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## 3fordasho (Nov 6, 2008)

It's easier and stronger just to use poles direct buried in the ground.  Are you avoiding that type of construction for some reason?  I've got some barns I put in 40 years ago with 6" X 6" CCA treated poles and no rot yet.   Now, CCA is hard to find, and 4" poles suited for direct burial are also rare to non-existant. Many places do sell treat 4" X 4"s, but not properly treated.   Get 6" X 6" poles ACQ or Copper Azole teated to .31 or more, and the shed will outlast you.  Sink them down to the frost line and no wind will ever move the building.[/quote]The reason I went with piers was the last home owner left 4 here and I only had to buy 2 more. Your the second person today to suggest I should have put the up rights in the ground and not have used the piers.

Shipper[/quote]


I went with the piers because right beyond my back yard is an no longer used limestone quarry.  Can you guess what I hit everytime I dig down beyond 6-10"?


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## Shipper50 (Nov 29, 2008)

Its not much, but its done. Found a young man on craigslist who roofed my shed for me as with my knee replacement still not good there was no way I could have finished.

The damn thing in material cost alone was more than I ever thought. So it should keep the rain and most of the snow off till the wood can season.

I have more to put and get under roof. Just a pic of some apple and persimmon.

Shipper


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## ericjeeper (Nov 30, 2008)

Looks great Shipper.. Not a bad looking woodshed for a couple of days work.
 Now get that shed filled up.Snow is on the way


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## matchbox (Dec 2, 2008)

SWEET SHEDS


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## webby3650 (Dec 3, 2008)

smokinj said:
			
		

> Shipper50 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's right,I live in southern indiana as well and you can usually dig about 18" anywhere around here and find lots of red clay. Also putting gravel in the hole doesn't really help with drainage in my opinion, the water still can't exit the hole but when backfilled with tamped clay water has a very tough time entering the hole!


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## JerseyWreckDiver (Dec 3, 2008)

I'm not fond of the idea of putting wood on the ground. Rot, frost heaving if it isn't below the frost line hard to get nice and straight/square, too many issues. I build mine as a 4' x 8' deck with the decking boards spaced a few inches apart and placed the corners up on masonry blocks to keep the whole thing off the ground. Before I laid the blocks I mounded some pea gravel from the center to the four corners and laid plastic sheet to keep the moisture from the ground away from my wood and sat the blocks on the corners. The long, front and back deck joists are 8.5' and run past the ends by the width of the 4x posts so the post sits in an inside corner and is well secured to the deck with lag bolts. Set a nice roof on top of the posts and fill with a full cord of wood and it isn't going anywhere. The deck being off the ground give it one more side for air to circulate from and is a little easier on the back. And this way, if need be, the whole thing can be moved whenever it's empty. Hell, when I move I plan on taking these with me...


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## awoodman (Dec 7, 2008)

shipper 50 I hope you have some kind of metal strap to secure those rafters standing on edge (not just toe nailed).


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## Shipper50 (Dec 7, 2008)

awoodman said:
			
		

> shipper 50 I hope you have some kind of metal strap to secure those rafters standing on edge (not just toe nailed).


The rafters are toe screwed with 2 1/2 inch screws I used on the whole shed. Guy who roofed it for me was up on it for over 2 hours total and it didn't fall over then. :roll: I forgot, the rafters are notched out to fit down over the cross pieces also. I said I wasn't a carpenter... ;-P 

I did use straps to connect the 4x4 cross pieces to the up rights though.

Shipper


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## Tony H (Dec 8, 2008)

Good looking sheds . The deck blocks look like an nice idea and would be easier to move and install than digging post holes. Using some rebar or cinder block to anchor it would also be nice . I have my wood on pallets with plastic over the top and my neighbor who also burns says the piles of wood "look like money" to him, but I would like to make it look a little nicer next summer.


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## Prada (Dec 8, 2008)

That's a super nice wood shed Shipper!


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## Shipper50 (Dec 8, 2008)

Prada said:
			
		

> That's a super nice wood shed Shipper!


Thank you Prada, coming from someone who has a really NICE shed it makes me smile.

PS I have your shed pic with the snowing saved in my favorites. Tell your hubby he's a lucky guy.  

Shipper


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## Prada (Dec 8, 2008)

*Blush* Oh I will run and tell him right now hehe


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