# Englander 25-PDV burn question?



## tmyers (Dec 15, 2010)

Hello,
I have an Englander 25-PDV mfg 2007. Vented out through wall with thimble 3ft then straight up about 8ft. OAK installed.
My question is: 
My bottom three settings are usually at 3 9 1. Why you ask? Well...It does not seem to matter how high I adjust the low burn air, the pot is still overflowing out the front toward the door with red hot pellets in the am. I have changed them to 4 6 1 and got even more overflow of red hot pellets. The higher the feed rate the more overflow. The low burn air adjustment does not seem to matter.
I gave the stove a very thorough cleaning this fall and replaced gaskets and such. Took off the blowers and cleaned the fans, screens, vent pipe, OAK is clear etc. It does not seem to matter what kind of pellets I burn either. I have never had any pellets "dancing" in the pot at a 9 low burn air setting either.  When I clean the stove it does run a little better for 12 hrs or so. Then it is right back to the same problem. Is my combustion blower failing?
It keeps my house at about 70F set at 3 heat setting and 5 room blower. My house is 1000sq ft ranch house/one level. This is at about 10F outside. It just seems like it does not burn the pellets as thoroughly as it should? 
Does your pot overflow out the front toward the door? Turning the glass black with soot?
Every 3-4 hours the pot is full again and I use a metal spatula to scoop most of it off to the side and close it up again. 
Any help is appreciated. Thanks.

Tonya


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## tmyers (Dec 15, 2010)

I forgot to add that just the other day the stove shut down and had an error code E-2. I started it up again and it has not shut down on it's own again since.

Tonya


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## 86 toy (Dec 15, 2010)

your stove burns just like my pdvc.. your explaination to a T. mine has been this way since i installed it new 2 years ago.. englander has replaced control board, exhaust blower and burnpot gasket wich none of it made a difference.. i have just learned to deal with it thinking that maybe i am just to picky and was expecting to much out of it but i guess i'm not alone.. right now i have my lower buttons at 2-9-1 and i can get almost 4 hours on heat setting 5 before things start to get really bad.. it just seems like their isn't enough air being moved through the stove.. let me know if you find anything out. my installation is a little different than you i go out the wall 12" to a t and up 3' to a 90 and a cap


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## tmyers (Dec 16, 2010)

I was just reading up a little more and was wondering if the hopper lid could be the problem. Mine moves a little when you push on it....while latched. It is my understanding it should not move and be snug? I put a new gasket on this fall. Does this matter?
I will tighten it down to see.


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## 86 toy (Dec 16, 2010)

tmyers said:
			
		

> I was just reading up a little more and was wondering if the hopper lid could be the problem. Mine moves a little when you push on it....while latched. It is my understanding it should not move and be snug? I put a new gasket on this fall. Does this matter?
> I will tighten it down to see.


 yes your hopper lid should be sealed. it sounds like your latches are out of adjustment. here is a link to your manual on englanders website the instructions for the latch adjustment are on page 19 http://www.englandsstoveworks.com/manuals/25-PDVEand25-PDV.pdf


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## sydsdad (Dec 16, 2010)

i seem to have that problem with certain pellets and not with others.Right now im burniing Hamers and they require tending to and cause huge clinkers in my stove.I have a pdvc not a pdv but the issue happens with alot of englanders,they are pellet picky..rmw


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## yknotcarpentry (Dec 16, 2010)

I have a pdvc but does the stove do this when you are operating above heat setting 2? you have no control of air or feed rate at that point. I have also read some posts about there being yet another feed| burn control function that can be messed with when you turn on the stove and hold a certain button.   i'd get a hold of mike on here or call tech support. they really are helpful


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## yknotcarpentry (Dec 16, 2010)

I have a pdvc but does the stove do this when you are operating above heat setting 2? you have no control of air or feed rate at that point. I have also read some posts about there being yet another feed| burn control function that can be messed with when you turn on the stove and hold a certain button.   i'd get a hold of mike on here or call tech support. they really are helpful


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## yknotcarpentry (Dec 16, 2010)

Sry for the dbl post I am on my phone


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## kofkorn (Dec 16, 2010)

Hi all,

I've had the same problem previously with my 55SHP-22 (25PDV).  I also tried setting the LBA as high as I could, but it still wasn't enough.  What I have found to work well is to use a little bit of coarse steel wool stuffed into the holes on the sides of the burn pot UNDERNEATH the burn plate.  You can start coarse and with a small amount of steel wool first and then work up to finer or denser amounts.  I also play with blocking one side at a time or both, trying to get the right amount of air.  

Just last week, I was having a little bit of a problem with some black build up on my glass after about 3-4 days and a tall flame when the stove was running on high for a while.  The burn pot was also running very full on high.  I blocked off both holes and immediately the number of pellets in the burn pot reduced and the flame shortened and brightened.  I cleaned the glass and it's been a very fine white ash since.  

I've used this trick for the past few years with very good success.  It really helps to burn through bad pellets as well.

Good luck!


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## 86 toy (Dec 16, 2010)

yknotcarpentry said:
			
		

> I have a pdvc but does the stove do this when you are operating above heat setting 2? you have no control of air or feed rate at that point. I have also read some posts about there being yet another feed| burn control function that can be messed with when you turn on the stove and hold a certain button.   i'd get a hold of mike on here or call tech support. they really are helpful



 i have talked to mike h personally on the phone last season he was very helpfull.. but the stove still burns the same no matter what i try.. i do agree that the original poster should contact englander if they continue to have a problem.. also ingitor control boards do control the fuel feed and burn air throughout the heat range not just on low settings.. their is a thread on here somewhere about it


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## tmyers (Dec 16, 2010)

I have adjusted the hopper lid so it closes tightly now. I have a new door gasket that I am going to put on tomorrow, even though I think mine is fine. Hopper gasket is new, gasket on combustion blower is new. Stove has been thoroughly cleaned. Maybe I will try the steel wool trick. I dont get how slowing down the air flow in the bottom holes makes the pellets burn better? But will try it none the less. 
Any other suggestions to try? Thanks.

Tonya


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## kofkorn (Dec 16, 2010)

The two holes in the bottom of burn pot under the burn plate allow the air to run through the sides of the pot and come out the holes in sides of the top of the burn pot.  Any air running through the sides is not going through the burn plate.  By putting the steel wool into the holes under the burn plate, you are restricting the air through the sides of the burn pot and up through the burn plate and pellets instead.  The idea is to get as much air through the pellets as possible.

Thanks!


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## tmyers (Dec 16, 2010)

Ya the light bulb in my head came on as I was filling one of the bottom holes with steel wool. I get it now. I will run it tonight on
on 3 6 1. Heat setting of 3 and room fan at 5. It is supposed to be down to 8F by morning here. So I guess I will see what I have got in the AM. Thanks for the help.

Tonya


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## tmyers (Dec 16, 2010)

OK so the weather man was wrong! It is 0F outside this morning!
Anyway the burn pot was not near as full this morning. I think I will plug the other side and see what I get now. I am also thinking of getting some different pellets this afternoon. I am almost out anyway. I am looking at some spruce pellets I have used before....love em'.
thanks


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## tmyers (Dec 29, 2010)

OK now we have a new development. The stove is now making a noise. Its kind of a whistling/humming/whirling noise? I sure hope the combustion blower is not going!
Still having the overflow problem with the pot if I set the feed rate higher than 3. Current bottom button settings are 3 9 1. It just is not throwing heat as it should. It was 28F outside today and the darn thing was set on 3 all day. At that rate it should be hotter than heck in my house! I guess I will need to make a phone call to tech support today after work. sigh!


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## MCPO (Dec 29, 2010)

tmyers said:
			
		

> Hello,
> I have an Englander 25-PDV mfg 2007. Vented out through wall with thimble 3ft then straight up about 8ft. OAK installed.
> My question is:
> My bottom three settings are usually at 3 9 1. Why you ask? Well...It does not seem to matter how high I adjust the low burn air, the pot is still overflowing out the front toward the door with red hot pellets in the am. I have changed them to 4 6 1 and got even more overflow of red hot pellets. The higher the feed rate the more overflow. The low burn air adjustment does not seem to matter.
> ...


FWIW, an Englanders tech once told me that the combustion fan speed  runs at approx 80% of max on the lowest LBA setting. The higher settings only control the remaining 20%.
 I`m inclined to believe him since it`s really difficult to hear any changes in speed settings.


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## pony66 (Dec 29, 2010)

Please post back after you try some different pellets......are your pellets real short?  Short pellets may overfeed.........


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## tmyers (Dec 30, 2010)

I have in fact ran every possible brand, price, manufacturer, short, long, dark, light pellet through this stove for 2 seasons and still having the issue. The only time it gets better is when I burn a softer wood pellet. They burn more thoroughly than the hardwood. They build up on the lower auger though. Always the same result......an overflowing pot....sigh. I turned the feed rate back to 3 so my setting now are 3 9 1. Today it was only on heat setting 1 and the pot still overflowed after about 6-7 hours. I keep an old metal spatula next to the stove to stir the pot every 2-3 hours to keep this from happening. Yes it is clean under the pot and the OAK and vent are clear from any obstructions. I just dont get it. I am sooooo frustrated with this.
I did not have time to call tech support today. Maybe tomorrow.


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## MCPO (Dec 30, 2010)

That`s strange. Has to be a combustion air issue or obstruction.
Today I was running my stove on heat mode c . The heat range set on 6 , blower fan on 9 and the lower 3 buttons on 8-4-1.
  It was cranking out some serious heat and eating up plenty of pellets but in the rear garage I need a lot of heat and fast to get things warmed up from scratch. 
 Bottom line is I can`t seem to overload the burn pot in this thing.  It will burn em as fast as it can get em and does a nice job at that.


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## tmyers (Jan 21, 2011)

OK I am wondering if the issue has finally come to light so to speak. I am now hearing a whirling/whistling noise from left on the backside of the stove! Is this possibly the combustion blower starting to go out? I thoroughly cleaned it this fall...........I took it off and cleaned the fins and such and replaced the gasket. How do you tell if it is bad without spending the money to replace it? Please help.......... it is reaaly cold here now and I need to diagnose this fast. Thanks!

Tonya


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## tmyers (Jan 21, 2011)

Just had a thought! Can I take the combustion blower to a dealer for inspection to determine if it needs replacing?


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 21, 2011)

tmyers said:
			
		

> Just had a thought! Can I take the combustion blower to a dealer for inspection to determine if it needs replacing?



You can test it yourself if you have a strobe light and don't mind playing with 120 volts.

Make certain you have a gasket handy because you'll likely destroy the one you have when removing the blower.

WARNING   Doing what is outlined next *can KILL you* if done incorrectly, if you do not know what you are doing, do not do it.  WARNING 

You wire the blower so it is powered by a wall outlet.   Then using the strobe light checking to see if the blower is turning at 3000 RPM.

You might want to make certain your stove is working in the correct mode on that controller first.


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## tmyers (Jan 21, 2011)

no way not messing with electricity! 
How do you tell if the stove is running on the correct program mode as you stated?
I'll try to check this first.

The noise comes and goes and is becoming more frequent. I guess if it is in the correct mode I will just replace the combustion blower and see what happens. The stove is from 2007 so it is probably due anyway.


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## Phatty (Jan 21, 2011)

i plugged the 2 big holes on the top side of the burn pot and it seems to help force aiR up thru the pellets, 
mine burns alot better this way IMO


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 21, 2011)

See here: https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewreply/786846/


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## hnkstang50 (Jan 21, 2011)

tmyers said:
			
		

> OK now we have a new development. The stove is now making a noise. Its kind of a whistling/humming/whirling noise? I sure hope the combustion blower is not going!
> Still having the overflow problem with the pot if I set the feed rate higher than 3. Current bottom button settings are 3 9 1. It just is not throwing heat as it should. It was 28F outside today and the darn thing was set on 3 all day. At that rate it should be hotter than heck in my house! I guess I will need to make a phone call to tech support today after work. sigh!



Is that whirling noise coming from the room air blower? Try changing the room air blower speed and see if the noise changes. I'm on my 4 the blower and its making the same noises again.


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## tmyers (Jan 22, 2011)

So my control board should be on "C" ? I can check that tonight when I shut down to clean. Thanks will post in a bit with what mode it is on.  Sigh..........
It makes no difference what speed the room fan is on. The noise comes and goes randomly.
Here is a recording of the noise.


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## hnkstang50 (Jan 22, 2011)

tmyers said:
			
		

> So my control board should be on "C" ? I can check that tonight when I shut down to clean. Thanks will post in a bit with what mode it is on.  Sigh..........
> It makes no difference what speed the room fan is on. The noise comes and goes randomly.



Yea the noise comes and goes but I ment when its making the noise changing the speed changes the pitch of the noise... mine did that on each new blower. the more I used it the less random it got and louder


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## tmyers (Jan 22, 2011)

I added a recording of the sound to my previous post.  Let me know what ya think.


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## hnkstang50 (Jan 22, 2011)

tmyers said:
			
		

> I added a recording of the sound to my previous post.  Let me know what ya think.



These are vids of my stove. Yours sounded the same. I took these to email to englander to try and convince them this sound is not normal. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfSwRTaJ9FA 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXNtirjbSAs 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMT32LuQG1M 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIgPsDi5CRA 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNIUvEuZ9MY


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## antmorin (Jan 22, 2011)

I am having the same problem.  I have found an air leak in my PDV.  I found it by accident I used my shop vac to blow out into the air intake to force air through the burn pot to see if I could get rid of some of the ash build up with out turning it off.  When I did that I noticed smoke coming from the where the top auger goes into the auger tube.  I realized that if smoke is coming out of here when I force air in then air is getting sucked in through here also.  I have replaced the gasket but still have the same problem so after looking at it more carefully I see that the smoke is coming through the bearing.  I have the auger block bearing on order and should get it on Tues.

After my burn pot fills up I don't see any more air coming from the holes in the sides of the pot but if you look carefully you can see that air is being pulled down through the auger tube.

I know what the feed rate setting and blower setting are but what are the "bottom 3 settings" that I've seen people talk about here.  How do I check what mine are set at?  How do I adjust them?  How do they work?


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## imacman (Jan 22, 2011)

burnit said:
			
		

> I know what the feed rate setting and blower setting are but what are the "bottom 3 settings" that I've seen people talk about here.  How do I check what mine are set at?  How do I adjust them?  How do they work?



Simply press each button, and the setting will show in the display above.  They can be adjusted by pressing the one to change, then press both up or both down arrows at the same time.  They change the speed and timing of the auger motor (Low Fuel Feed), and combustion blower (Low Burn Air).  The Air On Temp should always stay on 1.

Don't change the settings unless you're having a burn problem.


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## imacman (Jan 22, 2011)

If I remember correctly, a PDV should be set at 6-4-1 from the factory.


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## tmyers (Jan 22, 2011)

OK I checked which setting the board was on. It was on "A" for some reason. I have now changed it to "C" so I am hoping that this will help. The stove has shut down twice today with an error code of "E 3". I am hoping that it was because of the incorrect control board setting and not actually the combustion blower. I know that there is no obstruction in the "OAK" or exhaust so I guess we will see!!
Will post results later.

Tonya


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## antmorin (Jan 23, 2011)

Thanks imacman.  I checked  and mine was set to 3-3-2.  I changed the 2 to 1 according to what you said it should always be 1.  I left the others at 3 until I can get the air leak fixed it worked great last year at these setting so why change them now.


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## tmyers (Jan 23, 2011)

All I can say is WOW! What a difference! I had no idea this stove could throw so much heat! It must have been on mode "A" since I got it. 
Thanks smokeythebear for the idea to check it. Just in time too it is -14F here tonight. I have only heard it make the "noise" once since I fired it back up about 7-8 hours ago. I am keeping my fingers crossed.
Thanks everyone for your help!

Tonya


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 23, 2011)

tmyers said:
			
		

> All I can say is WOW! What a difference! I had no idea this stove could throw so much heat! It must have been on mode "A" since I got it.
> Thanks smokeythebear for the idea to check it. Just in time too it is -14F here tonight. I have only heard it make the "noise" once since I fired it back up about 7-8 hours ago. I am keeping my fingers crossed.
> Thanks everyone for your help!
> 
> Tonya



Form other posts on here it appears that the controller reverts to A mode.   It always pays to check that these things are operating in the correct mode.

I don't know if Mike Holten has been reading the forum much lately but if he reads this maybe he'll shed some light on what causes the controller to revert to A mode.

Keep warm Tonya, we are supposed to get hit tonight and a storm is supposed to shape up for the middle of this weak, oh joy.


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## antmorin (Jan 24, 2011)

Smokey, do you have more details on how to change the setting.  I plug the unit in hold the blower up and down buttons.  What's strange is that the reading appears on the feed rate setting.  Mine was reset to *a* then I use the feed rate up or down to change the setting to *c*.  Anything after that to lock the c in or just hit the on button to turn it on?


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 24, 2011)

burnit said:
			
		

> Smokey, do you have more details on how to change the setting.  I plug the unit in hold the blower up and down buttons.  What's strange is that the reading appears on the feed rate setting.  Mine was reset to *a* then I use the feed rate up or down to change the setting to *c*.  Anything after that to lock the c in or just hit the on button to turn it on?



I don't know, I suspect that when you change it and hit on it gets locked then.  I haven't gotten my paws on one to play with.  I have looked several England units over looking for things that could cause problems with air flows.


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## imacman (Jan 24, 2011)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

> burnit said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Once you get the setting where you want it, let all the lights go out on the board.  It is then "set" and ready to turn on.


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## antmorin (Jan 24, 2011)

Thanks imacman


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