# Simple timer for running auger in case of Electronics failure



## Doug Doty (Nov 27, 2014)

I watched a youtube video of Jason Munson rigging up light dimmers to run his pellet stove and this is the 1 piece he needed to make it all work well. He said that the light dimmer was only marginally successful at slowing the auger but one of these would run it off of timers just like mine are anyway. My combustion blower runs on wide open all the time and my circulation is a 5 speed along with my auger timer. This little timer and 1 variable light dimer would be a neat solution for an old stove with obsolete electronics and not to costly. As the stoves get older and you cant get a board maybe someone will want to try one out. I just found it interesting and it was hard to find one that would work properly searching the net. Ya, I was bored today 

https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/89382/SUN-702745.html


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## Bioburner (Nov 27, 2014)

Check out the Grainger site for many more and cheap options by Dayton.


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## Doug Doty (Nov 27, 2014)

You must be a better searcher than I cause I did and found none I thought would work for seconds on and then seconds off then repeat ?? Coming up with the right search words may be my issue. This looked to work and was the only one I found on the net.


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## Bioburner (Nov 27, 2014)

I knew Grainger had motor controls and is a good supplier for a lot of fans and gear motors so I already had a good idea of where to look.


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## Big papa (Nov 27, 2014)

Doug Doty said:


> I watched a youtube video of Jason Munson rigging up light dimmers to run his pellet stove and this is the 1 piece he needed to make it all work well. He said that the light dimmer was only marginally successful at slowing the auger but one of these would run it off of timers just like mine are anyway. My combustion blower runs on wide open all the time and my circulation is a 5 speed along with my auger timer. This little timer and 1 variable light dimer would be a neat solution for an old stove with obsolete electronics and not to costly. As the stoves get older and you cant get a board maybe someone will want to try one out. I just found it interesting and it was hard to find one that would work properly searching the net. Ya, I was bored today
> 
> https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/89382/SUN-702745.html


Good stuff there keep the ideas coming


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## Grunged (Jan 9, 2015)

I don't think the timer the op listed would work.  Even a 1rpm auger motor runs for no longer then 2 seconds during the "on" time.  The timer you listed above has a minimum "on" time of 5 seconds.  Even if you set it for 5 seconds and compensated by lengthening the "off" time, the stove wouldn't burn efficiently.  Now if you found one of these timer that were adjustable down to 1 second I think it would work perfect.  I found this thread while looking for a timer to control my auger motor.  If someone knows of a similar timer that doesn't break the bank, please let us know.


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## mustangwagz (Jan 9, 2015)

Grunged said:


> I don't think the timer the op listed would work.  Even a 1rpm auger motor runs for no longer then 2 seconds during the "on" time.  The timer you listed above has a minimum "on" time of 5 seconds.  Even if you set it for 5 seconds and compensated by lengthening the "off" time, the stove wouldn't burn efficiently.  Now if you found one of these timer that were adjustable down to 1 second I think it would work perfect.  I found this thread while looking for a timer to control my auger motor.  If someone knows of a similar timer that doesn't break the bank, please let us know.


well thats odd....cuz my auger runs for like 12-13 seconds on the setting its at now...then pauses for about 10 seconds?


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## KodiakII (Jan 9, 2015)

Not something I would recommend.  You might get your stove running but you have failed to incorporate the safeties that the manufacturer has included with your stove.


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## acammer (Jan 9, 2015)

I've always wanted to program my own stove control.  For running EFI systems on hot-rods we have a stand-alone control called megasquirt that might be tuneable to this application with a couple of relays.  I really like the concept of some DIY electronics for "hot wiring" a stove.  I would just want at minimum a high limit thermodisk in line with the auger.  A low limit is nice two so you don't fill the burn pot while you're not looking and end up with a smoldering dangerous mess.  Interesting stuff to think about.


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## Doug Doty (Jan 9, 2015)

That timer is actually just right. Mine runs from 3 on / 7 off - to 10 on / 3 off.  Then the other two blowers can be run successfully on ceiling light dimmers. You can even easily include the safeties.


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## tjnamtiw (Jan 9, 2015)

Search 'Snowy Rivers' and 'controls' to see how she masterfully explains a complete replacement for electronics


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## Snowy Rivers (Jan 9, 2015)

These folks have just the right stuff

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB4QFjAA&url=http://www.infitec.com/&ei=XvyvVLjFIY3ZoASkn4DAAg&usg=AFQjCNGM5cbpHO36-Gtt4MEj542aEHCWjQ

Part way down the page, click on alphabetical listing.

Go to HTRS

HTRS
120 VOLT
10 AMP
ON TIME FIRST ( .1--3 SECONDS)
Adjustment on the timer for the on time (set at optimal during startup)
This adjustment should not be accessible outside the stove)


OFF TIME SECOND (.5--15 SECONDS)
Remote adjustment with 2 terminals on timer
Accessible on the panel as heat range

The ordering code is all easy to write out

HTRS 5 B 0D 1 1A  2

The pdf sheet gives all the tech stuff

Use a multiple position rotary switch wired through a bank of resistors

The timer uses 1 megohm as the max time resistance.

I used a 3 position switch (LOW MED HIGH)
1 MEGOHM ---LOW
799 K OHM----MED
499K OHM----HIGH

1 MEG IS 10 SECONDS
799K IS 7.99 SECONDS
499K IS 4.99 SECONDS

You can pick and pick and chose your resistors for what you need.

I used off the shelf stuff

1/4 watt minimum on the resistor (per the companies specs)

Very basic stuff

A standard 5 amp Triac fan speed control will do the deed for the room fan.

Run the exhaust/draft fan line voltage (should do fine)

Some stoves vary the draft fan speed a tad, but generally not needed)


The stove companies used to use these types of controls, but went to proprietary boards to keep the $$$$$ in their pocket

keep your safety snaps, room air snaps and any other safety equipment all intact to keep the stove safe.

This system works sweet, and is robust.


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## SidecarFlip (Jan 9, 2015)

...and we all know where the boards are made and it's not Cleveland, Ohio either.....


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## Snowy Rivers (Jan 9, 2015)

You got that damned straight.

Chow ping maybe 

I am just putting the finishing touches on a retrofit controller that is a stand alone.

This panel has its own fuses, input wiring (plug in cord) output cable ( 14-12 wire)

The entire unit is a stand alone.

Simply run the cable into the stove and connect to the snap switches, feed motor, exhaust fan, room air fan etc and turn it on.

A complete controller.

I decided today to install a "latchout" relay to stop the stove from coming back on (or trying to) if there is a power outage.
I ordered the relay and it will take a bit.

Been working on this design for a while, testing the timers and such over the past couple years, and finally got it the way I wanted it, so I stuffed it all in a cool little wall mount box that will fasten to the wall by the stove.

Here are some pix.
The panel front, the innards, the cables  

This is all off the shelf stuff that anyone can buy.

The timers are the back bone of the unit, and the rest is just nick nack's that can be scrounged up at your local electronics supply.

Fry's will get you close.

The resistors for the heat control switch came from a small high end geek shop.
The internet will get you there too.

The switches and LED lights are ebay sourced


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## Doug Doty (Jan 9, 2015)

I like it... I am going to make one up for my stove from the timer I originally posted since it is turn key ready and I do not understand all the electronic gizmos. Use the timer for the auger and a fan controller on the Circ. air and the comb. blower at full power as my stove burns best that way anyway since i have a butterfly valve on the intake. This cheap crap electronics on my stove will dye before the rest and I am just gonna have it ready to just plug in to the 3 motors and a loop through the 3 safeties when the time comes. maybe having it will cause my stuff to last for ever. My over temp snap disc is a manual reset so no need to unlatch, it would stop the auger and kill the fire and if the blowers ran on it would be of no issue till I found it. That timer was just so simple.


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## SidecarFlip (Jan 10, 2015)

Snowy, without sounding crude, I like your box........  It appears to hit all the high spots.


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## Snowy Rivers (Jan 10, 2015)

Wooo hoooo 

Thanks.

If you go back to the early 90's there were still several pellet stove manufactures using timers that were identical to what I have in "My Box"  if in fact, the same identical ones.

I chose the 10 amp version to give the system a lot more margin in case of a short in a motor.

The auger, draft fan, room air fan all have their own fuse with the auger being 2 amps, and the fans each at 3 amps.

The timer is rated at 10 amps, so if the motor goes away, then the fuse will leave long before the timer ever reaches the critical level.

These timers are a mosfet design and pretty simple.
The service life on these timers is in the range of a minimum of 100 million cycles at full rated load.

So using a 10 amp rated timer for a 2 amp load should drastically extend the service life.

The OEM's used timers far closer to the rated load, with less safety factor.

I used a main cable with 14 gauge wire, mainly because that's what I could get easily from stock at the local electrical supply warehouse.

I wanted 12 conductors to be sure and have plenty in case I wanted to add something later.

I even clipped 2 wire off as the colors were too ambiguous (White with black stripe and green with black stripe) and these were too close to the neutral and ground, and could get mixed up.

I ended up with 3 spares anyway, and this is perfect.

All of what I have in the box could easily be stuffed into the stove chassis and a new panel insert made, but decided on a stand alone to allow leaving the factory parts in place.

The skew to the all in one control boards allowed the entire set of controls to be miniaturized to a huge extent, and cutting the cost per stove (to the manufacture, not the consumer) by a bunch.

The micro controllers are far more sensitive to voltage spikes, static discharge, yada yada yada.

The initial cost to build the "Box"   is a couple hundred bucks, butttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt, the parts that could fail are relatively cheap, and spares can be swapped in within a few minutes.

The timer is held to the Chassis "Box" with one screw, and the connections are 1/4 inch spade terminals.

All the rest of the components are pretty much lifetime stuff.

The design can be modified to fit just about any stove. (Manual light) that does not require a feedback loop from temp sensors and such.

If the particular unit needs a low temp override to allow start up fail safe, a one shot timer can be added to the mix. A setting of about 20 minutes is about normal. I have one here that has a range of .3 to 30 minutes with onboard adjustment.

Anything can be done, but once you walk down the high tech path, then all the familiar problems come right back into view.

A wood stove is about as simple as it gets, a steel can with a chimney on it that you build a fire in.

The pellet stove was originally a pretty simple work a day tool, then the idea of adding a computer to it clouded the picture, and the issues increased exponentially.

What I have tried to do was come up with a good reliable replacement system for the older stove/s that can are are often a parts orphan, especially the controls.

Feed motors, fans and such are still pretty much an off the shelf item.

Once the stove shell or heat exchangers  deteriorate and ultimately fail, then its game over.

A well cared for pellet stove should be good for many decades of service, even 24/7 use

Our Whitfields are early 90's vintage and other than having needed a fresh coat of paint due to normal scuffs and scrapes, they are certainly no worse for the wear.

Ahhh yes
Gotta love it

Snowy


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## Snowy Rivers (Jan 10, 2015)

Doug

The manual resets are great if there is a overheat, but the latchout is in the mix to shut things off in the event of a power outage.

If the power goes off for say 5 minutes, the fire could die out but the low temp switch is still connected, and this would allow the feed to resume if the power comes on again.

The stove could fill the pot with fuel and maybe not relight ???

Some stoves like the little whit we have do not have a low drop out and this could allow the thing to feed continuously on a dead fire.

I wanted  complete shut down with reset required on  restart

Just some thoughts.

Most controllers have a reset required after a power outage.

Snowy


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## rafmt (Jan 10, 2015)

Very impressive Snowy. You make it sound so easy.


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## Snowy Rivers (Jan 10, 2015)

It's very basic wiring and electronic theory.

I love your kitty.


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