# 2020/21 VC Owners thread



## begreen (Oct 7, 2020)

This is the place for all things Vermont Castings, picking up from last season's thread here:





						2019/20 VC Owners thread
					

Another year of owning a Vermont castings stove? Welcome to the thread about everything vc.  Last season's thread is  here




					www.hearth.com


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## Slim51 (Oct 7, 2020)

ill christen the post with another question... Im installing a new thermostat assembly for the primary air control level on a defiant encore 2190. It WILL NOT stay open, instead it springs back to closed when i let go of the handle. Anyone know what im doing wrong?? I really hope this stove is worth all the trouble its been so far before even using the thing lol


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## Woodsplitter67 (Oct 7, 2020)

Hello all my vc friends... looking forward to another burning season..


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## Diabel (Oct 7, 2020)

Hi all!
Hope you all had a decent summer given the circumstances.....
Lets put them wood through our temperamental units and share our ideas with new folks chiming in.  Just had my second fire of the season this morning (it was miserable, 49 windy and raining). House is nice and toasty.


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## arnermd (Oct 11, 2020)

Hello All,

Wondering if anybody has a proven method for testing a bimetal thermostat in a Vermont castings model 1975 (2n1) that does not require stove teardown.  In my stove getting to the thermostat  requires removing the top and internal air passage castings (I have heard older models had a simple cap to expose the bimetal).  I tried removing the thermostat handle and heating the shaft with a propane torch, no movement from the air inlet damper.  Not sure that method would be effective as the bimetal is a huge fin, not sure I can pump enough heat into the shaft to heat the bimetal coil.

I would prefer to heat the coil directly, but I can't get to it without a partial teardown.....

Any suggestions would be appreciated.


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## begreen (Oct 11, 2020)

arnermd said:


> I would prefer to heat the coil directly, but I can't get to it without a partial teardown.....
> 
> Any suggestions would be appreciated.


@Diabel @trispad any thoughts?


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## Diabel (Oct 12, 2020)

arnermd said:


> Hello All,
> 
> Wondering if anybody has a proven method for testing a bimetal thermostat in a Vermont castings model 1975 (2n1) that does not require stove teardown.  In my stove getting to the thermostat  requires removing the top and internal air passage castings (I have heard older models had a simple cap to expose the bimetal).  I tried removing the thermostat handle and heating the shaft with a propane torch, no movement from the air inlet damper.  Not sure that method would be effective as the bimetal is a huge fin, not sure I can pump enough heat into the shaft to heat the bimetal coil.
> 
> ...



I am not sure how the 1975 2in1 is put together. I would imagine the bimetal coil is somewhere past the cat. What is the purpose of your exercise?


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## arnermd (Oct 13, 2020)

The 1975 only has one coil, it sits in the inlet air passage on the right side of the box.  The shaft attached to the center of the coil is the inlet air control lever.   There is no active air control for the cat.

Purpose is to determine if the coil is working as it should.  I have had issues where the cat temp gets very hot sometimes, but not always.  Primary burn is generally under control and not overheating.  seems unlikely the issues is the bimetal but if I can check it easily and rule it out....


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## RonnBatt (Oct 13, 2020)

Hi All... new potential VC owner here. I am looking at purchasing an INTREPID II and have found one with a base that I have never seen on a VC before. Instead of the normal 4 feet, this one has a full cast iron skirt, SEE PHOTOS. Does this look familiar to anyone? I can not find another photo of a VC with such a base? got any ideas of the model? Any help would be greatly appreciated.


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## ekf (Oct 19, 2020)

Hello,

We recently purchased an antique house that came with a VC Encore 2550 that we think is from 1995/96 (jharkin's threads have been immensely helpful!), and aren't planning to replace the stove this winter.

The prior owners seemed to have not properly maintained the stove and we are replacing the cat and the refractory panel. We have not fired it up yet.

I was looking around today and noticed that the lower fireback had this small crack on it - photo attached - is this a big concern? Also, how can I determined how "warped" the firebacks are?

Thanks!


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## Diabel (Oct 19, 2020)

Yes
You should replace the fireback as well. They are not that expensive.


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## redman (Oct 31, 2020)

Good day everyone, looking for some help with encore flexburn 2040. Been burning for 5 yrs using inferno stove top meter.  I just installed a condar flue gard probe today. I never received the cat probe that goes in back but I’ve read that the optimal reading is 1100. Does the same rule apply for this flue gard? I ask because 1100  is in the red on this condar and I don’t want to overheat. Any tips help, thank you


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## redman (Oct 31, 2020)

redman said:


> Good day everyone, looking for some help with encore flexburn 2040. Been burning for 5 yrs using inferno stove top meter.  I just installed a condar flue gard probe today. I never received the cat probe that goes in back but I’ve read that the optimal reading is 1100. Does the same rule apply for this flue gard? I ask because 1100  is in the red on this condar and I don’t want to overheat. Any tips help, thank you


Forgot to mention the condar probe says optimal reading is 400-800


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## Woodsplitter67 (Oct 31, 2020)

redman said:


> Good day everyone, looking for some help with encore flexburn 2040. Been burning for 5 yrs using inferno stove top meter.  I just installed a condar flue gard probe today. I never received the cat probe that goes in back but I’ve read that the optimal reading is 1100. Does the same rule apply for this flue gard? I ask because 1100  is in the red on this condar and I don’t want to overheat. Any tips help, thank you


1100 in the stove pipe is way to hot. thats a reading for the cat probe. You can use an alber at100 for a cat.prove and as far as a flu temp I go with 400 to 500


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## redman (Oct 31, 2020)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> 1100 in the stove pipe is way to hot. thats a reading for the cat probe. You can use an alber at100 for a cat.prove and as far as a flu temp I go with 400 to 500


Copy that, thanks


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## Reckless (Nov 2, 2020)

Back in rebuild mode.... found a bolt loose on the upper, went to tighten it and it snapped......... kinda glad I went rope over cement on my rebuild. Drilled and tapped to a larger bolt. Hope everyone is doing well!!


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## Reckless (Nov 3, 2020)

Any opinions on the use of these SS bolts shown above.


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## mrd1995 (Nov 3, 2020)

Reckless said:


> Any opinions on the use of these SS bolts shown above.


We are in the middle of designing a hot form press that utilizes SS and one of the main concerns is that dissimilar metals expand and contract at different rates. If the stainless expands at a faster rate you main run the risk of cracking the female material, on the contrast if it expands slower it may loosen over time. We are using 300 series SS and over 24' we are expecting a total of 3" of expansion...just food for thought.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Nov 3, 2020)

Reckless said:


> Any opinions on the use of these SS bolts shown above.


what stove are you working on


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## Reckless (Nov 3, 2020)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> what stove are you working on


Encore 2550


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## redman (Nov 3, 2020)

So this year I bought gasket kit and replaced for the doors, glass, griddle, ashpan, flue collar, damper. The damper was the hardest. I ended up applying the cement with my finger onto the fireback and thought it would do. But realized the bottom of damper does not create tight seal like the rest of the sides. There’s a nice little visible gap see pic below. It sits too high once closed like the bottom of the damper is almost level with the top of fireback! if I can only bring it down then I think I’m in business. *Can someone please tell me if there is a way to adjust it to go down so I can have a tight seal??(Encore 2n1 2040) thank you


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## Reckless (Nov 3, 2020)

redman said:


> So this year I bought gasket kit and replaced for the doors, glass, griddle, ashpan, flue collar, damper. The damper was the hardest. I ended up applying the cement with my finger onto the fireback and thought it would do. But realized the bottom of damper does not create tight seal like the rest of the sides. There’s a nice little visible gap see pic below. It sits too high once closed like the bottom of the damper is almost level with the top of fireback! if I can only bring it down then I think I’m in business. *Can someone please tell me if there is a way to adjust it to go down so I can have a tight seal??(Encore 2n1 2040) thank you


Well here is the back, I would think these tabs are loose or bent. You might be able to check them from the front with the door open. Hope the door isn’t warped....


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## redman (Nov 3, 2020)

Reckless said:


> Well here is the back, I would think these tabs are loose or bent. You might be able to check them from the front with the door open. Hope the door isn’t warped....


I’ve seen them. I definitely loosened One of those through the flue collar to get damper off track so I can cement fireback. I’m thinking I may have not tightened it back all the way. If I need to, is it difficult to get the whole damper out? I assume I would have to take the top off


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## Reckless (Nov 3, 2020)

redman said:


> I’ve seen them. I definitely loosened One of those through the flue collar to get damper off track so I can cement fireback. I’m thinking I may have not tightened it back all the way. If I need to, is it difficult to get the whole damper out? I assume I would have to take the top off


Can you get the flue collar back off easily to take a look? Probably can get everything you need to through there. I’ve done the full gasket through the flue collar opening before.


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## Diabel (Nov 4, 2020)

redman said:


> So this year I bought gasket kit and replaced for the doors, glass, griddle, ashpan, flue collar, damper. The damper was the hardest. I ended up applying the cement with my finger onto the fireback and thought it would do. But realized the bottom of damper does not create tight seal like the rest of the sides. There’s a nice little visible gap see pic below. It sits too high once closed like the bottom of the damper is almost level with the top of fireback! if I can only bring it down then I think I’m in business. *Can someone please tell me if there is a way to adjust it to go down so I can have a tight seal??(Encore 2n1 2040) thank you


To me it looks like your damper is starting to warp. Not sure on the 2040 but very common on older models. It happens due to over firing the stove. I would use thicker gasket in that problem area.


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## redman (Nov 7, 2020)

Hey guys, I ordered a damper housing seemed like a fair price.  I got the top off but can't figure out how to get the damper rod out so I can pull the bad housing out.  Any step by step tips would be greatly appreciated.  Even with the service manual I can't figure this out...


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## Woodsplitter67 (Nov 7, 2020)

redman said:


> Hey guys, I ordered a damper housing seemed like a fair price.  I got the top off but can't figure out how to get the damper rod out so I can pull the bad housing out.  Any step by step tips would be greatly appreciated.  Even with the service manual I can't figure this out...


 If yours is like mine ..2040 ..you need to put your hand inside the damper housing from the back of the stove..flue collar.. and remove the c clip that holds the rod in place..


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## redman (Nov 7, 2020)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> If yours is like mine ..2040 ..you need to put your hand inside the damper housing from the back of the stove..flue collar.. and remove the c clip that holds the rod in place..


Got it.  I have to say this is a whole new world for me, its really cool to get in understand the mechanics behind this thing.  But I went further because I couldn't help myself and now I have to buy some more gasket including the fireback one.  I've had overfiring issues since my 3rd season.  Really hoping all this work pays off.  It sure is time consuming but kind of fun figuring it all out.  Thanks for the help


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## Woodsplitter67 (Nov 7, 2020)

redman said:


> Got it.  I have to say this is a whole new world for me, its really cool to get in understand the mechanics behind this thing.  But I went further because I couldn't help myself and now I have to buy some more gasket including the fireback one.  I've had overfiring issues since my 3rd season.  Really hoping all this work pays off.  It sure is time consuming but kind of fun figuring it all out.  Thanks for the help



.I normally do any maintenance when I'm not burning. Last year in August I did my gaskets before the season started. they were shot and were warn from the winter before. I knew it was time. I keep basic stuff on hand. I have 1.5 gasket sets.  high tepm silicone. stainless bolts, and cement, 2 extra cats, ect on hand if something out of the blue goes wrong


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## Reckless (Nov 8, 2020)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> .I normally do any maintenance when I'm not burning. Last year in August I did my gaskets before the season started. they were shot and were warn from the winter before. I knew it was time. I keep basic stuff on hand. I have 1.5 gasket sets.  high tepm silicone. stainless bolts, and cement, 2 extra cats, ect on hand if something out of the blue goes wrong


Best thing I did was buy a spool of 200’ 5/16 gasket early on, always have a tube of gasket cement and furnace cement and a mixture of bolts, nuts and screws. 2 extra cats ?!?!


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## RandyBoBandy (Nov 9, 2020)

Reckless said:


> Back in rebuild mode.... found a bolt loose on the upper, went to tighten it and it snapped......... kinda glad I went rope over cement on my rebuild. Drilled and tapped to a larger bolt. Hope everyone is doing well!!


reckless, are you saying you used rope instead of cement on the upper fire back?  I have to replace my refractory box soon.  I should have done it over the summer, however, I got lazy. And now it’s burn season and I’m working seven days a week to close out the season and I have no time.  I’m hoping I can tare it down and have it back up and burning in a day.


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## Reckless (Nov 9, 2020)

RandyBoBandy said:


> reckless, are you saying you used rope instead of cement on the upper fire back?  I have to replace my refractory box soon.  I should have done it over the summer, however, I got lazy. And now it’s burn season and I’m working seven days a week to close out the season and I have no time.  I’m hoping I can tare it down and have it back up and burning in a day.


Yes and it held up pretty well although the bolts and fireback did come a little loose, but I rebuilt it years ago at this point. When I reassemble it this time I will be sure to check those bolts occasionally.


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## Reckless (Nov 14, 2020)

Rebuild complete. Gaskets on upper, lower fireback and left inner wall. Swept the 30’ SS liner and got about 1.5 coffee cans out, having the upper fireback out makes it really easy to sweep just put a small cardboard box directly under the flue.  Burned two break in fires and ready to go. I think I’ll need a new cat next year judging by the cracks forming. Stay warm people.


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## Diabel (Nov 14, 2020)

Reckless said:


> Rebuild complete. Gaskets on upper, lower fireback and left inner wall. Swept the 30’ SS liner and got about 1.5 coffee cans out, having the upper fireback out makes it really easy to sweep just put a small cardboard box directly under the flue.  Burned two break in fires and ready to go. I think I’ll need a new cat next year judging by the cracks forming. Stay warm people.


Did you end up using ss bolts?


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## Reckless (Nov 14, 2020)

Diabel said:


> Did you end up using ss bolts?


Yes the ones pictured. We well see how they hold up.


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## RandyBoBandy (Nov 14, 2020)

Reckless said:


> Rebuild complete. Gaskets on upper, lower fireback and left inner wall. Swept the 30’ SS liner and got about 1.5 coffee cans out, having the upper fireback out makes it really easy to sweep just put a small cardboard box directly under the flue.  Burned two break in fires and ready to go. I think I’ll need a new cat next year judging by the cracks forming. Stay warm people.


what size rope did you use for the upper fire back?  Did you regasket the damper plate while you were in there?


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## Diabel (Nov 14, 2020)

I remember when i did my total rebuild on the 2550, the horizontal connection between the upper fireback and the bottom of the damper assembly had no groove/space for any gasket. I found that odd. There i just put lots of cement but i did not like it.


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## Reckless (Nov 14, 2020)

RandyBoBandy said:


> what size rope did you use for the upper fire back?  Did you regasket the damper plate while you were in there?


3/8ths and yes redid damper even though it was I decent shape, I have more than enough 5/16 to regret it later.


Diabel said:


> I remember when i did my total rebuild on the 2550, the horizontal connection between the upper fireback and the bottom of the damper assembly had no groove/space for any gasket. I found that odd. There i just put lots of cement but i did not like it.


I’m not sure I follow. Damper is housed in upper fireback, or am I confused (totally possible)  Do you see the space in the pic I posted on page 1?


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## Reckless (Nov 14, 2020)

Full throttle, here we go. Hope everyone is enjoying their weekend.


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## gthomas785 (Nov 15, 2020)

Chilly Sunday morning


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## Diabel (Nov 15, 2020)

Reckless said:


> 3/8ths and yes redid damper even though it was I decent shape, I have more than enough 5/16 to regret it later.
> 
> I’m not sure I follow. Damper is housed in upper fireback, or am I confused (totally possible)  Do you see the space in the pic I posted on page 1?


You are not confused. I dont know why but when i wrote this for some reason i thought there were three sections there, damper, upper and lower.
The pic you posted on page one of the damper assembly, there was one area with no groove for a gasket. Just a flat cast section that butted against the body of the stove. That i found strange.


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## Reckless (Nov 16, 2020)

Not the perfect place for this but this is the only place I’m active lol. 3cord cherry, white oak and ash strap was only precautionary measures cause the name fits me. Stay warm


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## RandyBoBandy (Nov 17, 2020)

I need to be working on my stacks to.  Haven’t had the time due to working 6-7 days a week. Hoping the weather is decent this weekend.


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## Reckless (Nov 17, 2020)

RandyBoBandy said:


> I need to be working on my stacks to.  Haven’t had the time due to working 6-7 days a week. Hoping the weather is decent this weekend.


Finding time to even split has been tough and I work from home! I was very happy to be done with it the other day.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Nov 17, 2020)

RandyBoBandy said:


> I need to be working on my stacks to.  Haven’t had the time due to working 6-7 days a week. Hoping the weather is decent this weekend.



I hear you.. been working like a dog  and im booked into January. Owning your own business isn't what its crack up to be.  It does however pay for my wood addiction and I'm warm...


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## Woodsplitter67 (Nov 18, 2020)

Any one running a steel cat in the encore.. If so how well does it work. Notice any changes in stove operation..


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## Reckless (Nov 18, 2020)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> Any one running a steel cat in the encore.. If so how well does it work. Notice any changes in stove operation..


Jharkin was and quickly went back to ceramic, he was running a 2550.


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## Reckless (Nov 18, 2020)

First over night temps around 26F and stove behaved itself peaking at 1270 with 3 splits red oak and one ash. Woke up 7hrs later 200 on cat with enough coals to start another.


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## Diabel (Nov 18, 2020)

Several years ago i bought one of the steel cats. It was one of the diesel foil ones or something like that. It totally deformed after one month of use. I will stick with ceramic for both stoves.


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## frased (Nov 18, 2020)

Got my house fully insulated all the walls and attic... WHAT A DIFFERENCE!! I can now heat my entire house with just the stove and it’s noticeably more evenly heated throughout. It’s going to be a different winter for me this season!


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## Woodsplitter67 (Nov 18, 2020)

frased said:


> Got my house fully insulated all the walls and attic... WHAT A DIFFERENCE!! I can now heat my entire house with just the stove and it’s noticeably more evenly heated throughout. It’s going to be a different winter for me this season!



Congratulations.. its nice to like in a well insulated house.. bet the heat feels better..


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## Woodsplitter67 (Nov 18, 2020)

Diabel said:


> Several years ago i bought one of the steel cats. It was one of the diesel foil ones or something like that. It totally deformed after one month of use. I will stick with ceramic for both stoves.



I picked one up and had it delivered.. Im going to try it out.. did the cat not light off like it should.. did it run to hot or something


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## Reckless (Nov 18, 2020)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> I picked one up and had it delivered.. Im going to try it out.. did the cat not light off like it should.. did it run to hot or something


If I remember correctly people had issues with keeping it lit.


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## Tcorriveau (Nov 20, 2020)

I was in the process of replacing the catalyst in my Encore 2550 and while doing so, I noticed the owners manual states to check the secondary air probe with a mirror. I cannot for the life of me locate the probe in the refractory.  Where is the probe located?

Also, while I was searching the forums for the answer to that question, I see many people use an Auber AT100 to monitor catalyst temps, where do you install the at100 probe? My stove does have the rear heat shield installed and there is no catalyst probe currently installed that I would replace with the at100. Thanks all for the assistance.

Sorry if I posted in the wrong spot.


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## Diabel (Nov 21, 2020)

The secondary air probe tip/end is located close to the bottom of the refractory box. Once you remove the cat, using a mirror you should be able to spot the tip of the probe. If you do not see it at all it means it burnt off and needs to be replaced. As for the cat probe, at the back of the stove, more less smack in the middle, same horizontal as the secondary air probe but in the middle of the stove you will find a small metal cap. Pop that off and there is your cat probe hole. You will need to put a drill bit (gently) through it and drill through the refractory box (just the back side). Since you have a heat shield, you ill need to drill that too. You will need a six inch probe rated 2000*f


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## Tcorriveau (Nov 21, 2020)

Thanks, Diabel.


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## Tcorriveau (Nov 21, 2020)

Diabel said:


> The secondary air probe tip/end is located close to the bottom of the refractory box. Once you remove the cat, using a mirror you should be able to spot the tip of the probe. If you do not see it at all it means it burnt off and needs to be replaced. As for the cat probe, at the back of the stove, more less smack in the middle, same horizontal as the secondary air probe but in the middle of the stove you will find a small metal cap. Pop that off and there is your cat probe hole. You will need to put a drill bit (gently) through it and drill through the refractory box (just the back side). Since you have a heat shield, you ill need to drill that too. You will need a six inch probe rated 2000*f



Diabel, one last question, I think. Will the probe in the link work? I ask because it states maximum insertion is 3” with maximum transition area temp being 750 F.






						K type high temperature thermocouple for heat treatment [WRNK-191] - $18.62 : Auber Instruments, Inc., Temperature control solutions for home and industry
					

Auber Instruments, Inc. K type high temperature thermocouple for heat treatment [WRNK-191] - This K type transition style high temperature thermocouple probe can be used for glass kilns and heat treatment ovens. The maximum working temperature is 1100°C (2000°F). For 6" probe, the maximum...



					www.auberins.com


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## Diabel (Nov 21, 2020)

Yes, that is the probe i have.


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## RandyBoBandy (Nov 22, 2020)

Diabel said:


> The secondary air probe tip/end is located close to the bottom of the refractory box. Once you remove the cat, using a mirror you should be able to spot the tip of the probe. If you do not see it at all it means it burnt off and needs to be replaced. As for the cat probe, at the back of the stove, more less smack in the middle, same horizontal as the secondary air probe but in the middle of the stove you will find a small metal cap. Pop that off and there is your cat probe hole. You will need to put a drill bit (gently) through it and drill through the refractory box (just the back side). Since you have a heat shield, you ill need to drill that too. You will need a six inch probe rated 2000*f


Do not use an actual drill for going through the refractory box. Just a bit and your finger tips. Also some of us have disconnected the secondary probe rod that controls the shutter. So in our case the secondary probe is basically just plugging a hole


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## RandyBoBandy (Nov 22, 2020)

I have a K type probe from condar connected to my AT100. It’s a shorter probe and will fit behind the heat shield without drilling a hole in it.


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## Tcorriveau (Nov 22, 2020)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Do not use an actual drill for going through the refractory box. Just a bit and your finger tips. Also some of us have disconnected the secondary probe rod that controls the shutter. So in our case the secondary probe is basically just plugging a hole



I ordered a new secondary probe because there was barely anything visible and the manual stated 1 to 1.5 inches should be visible


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## Tcorriveau (Nov 22, 2020)

RandyBoBandy said:


> I have a K type probe from condar connected to my AT100. It’s a shorter probe and will fit behind the heat shield without drilling a hole in it.



Do you have a link to the probe you have? I checked their site and can’t find a K type probe listed.


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## Reckless (Nov 22, 2020)

Tcorriveau said:


> I ordered a new secondary probe because there was barely anything visible and the manual stated 1 to 1.5 inches should be visible


I don’t use the secondary either, I have it completely blocked with tinfoil and the shutter, and the EPA holes too.


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## RandyBoBandy (Nov 22, 2020)

Tcorriveau said:


> Do you have a link to the probe you have? I checked their site and can’t find a K type probe listed.


You have to go into the watchman link. It’s listed as “replacement probe and cable.  The only reason I have this probe is because I had a condar before the AT100.


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## RandyBoBandy (Nov 22, 2020)

RandyBoBandy said:


> You have to go into the watchman link. It’s listed as “replacement probe and cable.  The only reason I have this probe is because I had a condar before the AT100.





Tcorriveau said:


> Do you have a link to the probe you have? I checked their site and can’t find a K type probe listed.








						Condar Watchman electronic catalyst monitor
					

Condar's watchman catalytic monitor uses a LED display and beep tones to help maximize catalyst heat potential and avoid damage.



					www.condar.com


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## RandyBoBandy (Nov 22, 2020)

If you go this route you will have to cut off the connector on the condar probe and wire in the plug provided with the AT100.


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## RandyBoBandy (Nov 22, 2020)

Reckless said:


> Not the perfect place for this but this is the only place I’m active lol. 3cord cherry, white oak and ash strap was only precautionary measures cause the name fits me. Stay warm


I have an equally scary stack going myself. For the record I did not this so called shed. The previous owner of my property had a cow. He was a “not so handy” man.


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## Tcorriveau (Nov 22, 2020)

RandyBoBandy said:


> You have to go into the watchman link. It’s listed as “replacement probe and cable.  The only reason I have this probe is because I had a condar before the AT100.



Thank you


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## RandyBoBandy (Nov 22, 2020)

Tcorriveau said:


> Thank you


No problem.


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## Tcorriveau (Nov 22, 2020)

Another question for all the VC owners out there. I have a VC Defiant Model 1975 in working condition and not in need of repair. What do you all think would be a good asking price if I were to list it?


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## Tcorriveau (Nov 30, 2020)

RandyBoBandy said:


> You have to go into the watchman link. It’s listed as “replacement probe and cable.  The only reason I have this probe is because I had a condar before the AT100.



When installing this probe, should it be visible under the cat or no?


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## Woodsplitter67 (Nov 30, 2020)

Tcorriveau said:


> When installing this probe, should it be visible under the cat or no?



yes


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## Tcorriveau (Nov 30, 2020)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> yes



Thanks. Now it’s time to fight with the throat good after replacing gasket on the lower fire back. It’s the only part of this stove I hate dealing with


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 1, 2020)

Tcorriveau said:


> When installing this probe, should it be visible under the cat or no?


It should not be in contact with the front of the refractory box though.


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## Tcorriveau (Dec 1, 2020)

RandyBoBandy said:


> It should not be in contact with the front of the refractory box though.



It runs under the Cat and stops about 1/2 inch from the front of the refractory.


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## Portchop (Dec 4, 2020)

Good evening. Hoping to get some ideas/opinions on my new (supposed) 2020 VC Montpelier 2 insert.   We bought it this past October in the hopes of heating the home a little more with wood and less oil.  My father has a wood insert and swore by it (different brand). When we bought ours we liked the look ( she did) and we were told, yup 8 or só hour burn time.  Well great! I had been gathering wood for a year thinking we will have enough and if family needs some, we will have enough...... well forget family, I’m wondering if we will have enough.    This thing burns like its wood is doused in gas.  I’ve been trying to find info on it but really haven’t found much related to my model.   I’ve tried different woods. Different moistures, loading it to the brim, etc.   
the down side I’m seeing is this unit doesn’t have a damper. My fault for not noticing that but nonetheless we were told 8 hour burn.  Well we had a tech come out today because I’ve consistently gotten between 1-3 hours Max of burn time/hot embers.  Not what we expected.   We thought maybe a leak. Tech got there and looked it over and said nope looks good.
Called VC and they said the EPA make changes to requirements and now all models regardless of make or model have to burn at a medium high level.   Even if that’s correct mine is still burning extra fast and where’s the savings!  I have to wake up every 3 hours ti put wood in. That’s not useful. That’s horrible.  
Any recommendations on a chimney top damper maybe to reduce updraft? Thoughts ? Opinions?  TIA


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## begreen (Dec 4, 2020)

Portchop said:


> Called VC and they said the EPA make changes to requirements and now all models regardless of make or model have to burn at a medium high level.


That is factually incorrect. HHT (VC parent now) decided this solution for the Monticello 2 and Expedition 2 inserts. The EPA did not mandate it. There are many other new 2020 inserts that still retain air control.

How tall is the flue liner on the insert? How thick are the splits being loaded and how tightly packed is the stove on a full loading?


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## warmerwinters (Dec 5, 2020)

Hi all, New to the forum and enjoy following these threads. We bought a house that included a 1981 Winter Warm insert.  

Ran it a few times and now the variable fan only runs when lever is most of the way to the right (on low).

Questions:

Might I have messed it up by over-firing or running too hot?
Any reason I should avoid operating as-is?
Should I be using the other blower in the meantime? It's loud and I'd prefer not to.
How hard is it to fix a variable fan for a total newbie like me?
Thanks so much for any guidance you could provide!


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## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 5, 2020)

Portchop said:


> Good evening. Hoping to get some ideas/opinions on my new (supposed) 2020 VC Montpelier 2 insert.   We bought it this past October in the hopes of heating the home a little more with wood and less oil.  My father has a wood insert and swore by it (different brand). When we bought ours we liked the look ( she did) and we were told, yup 8 or só hour burn time.  Well great! I had been gathering wood for a year thinking we will have enough and if family needs some, we will have enough...... well forget family, I’m wondering if we will have enough.    This thing burns like its wood is doused in gas.  I’ve been trying to find info on it but really haven’t found much related to my model.   I’ve tried different woods. Different moistures, loading it to the brim, etc.
> the down side I’m seeing is this unit doesn’t have a damper. My fault for not noticing that but nonetheless we were told 8 hour burn.  Well we had a tech come out today because I’ve consistently gotten between 1-3 hours Max of burn time/hot embers.  Not what we expected.   We thought maybe a leak. Tech got there and looked it over and said nope looks good.
> Called VC and they said the EPA make changes to requirements and now all models regardless of make or model have to burn at a medium high level.   Even if that’s correct mine is still burning extra fast and where’s the savings!  I have to wake up every 3 hours ti put wood in. That’s not useful. That’s horrible.
> Any recommendations on a chimney top damper maybe to reduce updraft? Thoughts ? Opinions?  TIA



 With this type of insert I would be burning whole logs or large splits. I would get the fire going and then add nothing but large to it. Your split size should be in the 6x4.. 4x5.. 5x5 inch size. Your box size is medium like mine I split square and rectangle so I can pack mine tight. I can get like 40 lbs of wood in mine doing it this way.. less air gap in between the wood will slow the burn rate... Your splits may be to small. I split.. small.. to get it going.. medium.. to keep it going and get it up to temp.. large for overnight or long burns..

BTW... You never have as much wood as you think you have unless your sitting on 10+cords


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## Dobish (Dec 6, 2020)

Hey All, it's been a while! I just wanted to post on this thread, and let you know that I finally remembered to clean out the stove at the end of the season, and brought up 2 cord of 4 Y/O Maple. So far, we are down about a 1/2 Cord for the season, as it has been pretty warm so far. I finally got around to splitting some of the 30"+ Logs that my buddy dropped off at my house, and it turns out it was all maple and LOCUST!  I also ended up making benches of this very big piece of maple. I had to roll them down the hill, and across the creek! lets just say I had to get creative on how to get them over the gap!! These pieces have been sitting in my yard for about 2 years......






Here is a picture of the wood pile, with Fasty Pants and Slowy Pants checking it out.


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## Reckless (Dec 6, 2020)

Dobish said:


> Hey All, it's been a while! I just wanted to post on this thread, and let you know that I finally remembered to clean out the stove at the end of the season, and brought up 2 cord of 4 Y/O Maple. So far, we are down about a 1/2 Cord for the season, as it has been pretty warm so far. I finally got around to splitting some of the 30"+ Logs that my buddy dropped off at my house, and it turns out it was all maple and LOCUST!  I also ended up making benches of this very big piece of maple. I had to roll them down the hill, and across the creek! lets just say I had to get creative on how to get them over the gap!! These pieces have been sitting in my yard for about 2 years......
> 
> 
> Here is a picture of the wood pile, with Fasty Pants and Slowy Pants checking it out.


nice work. I’m very interested how the VC will handle that locust, hopefully not thermonuclear like I envision lol. I still get worried when I load up white oak.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 6, 2020)

Dobish said:


> Hey All, it's been a while! I just wanted to post on this thread, and let you know that I finally remembered to clean out the stove at the end of the season, and brought up 2 cord of 4 Y/O Maple. So far, we are down about a 1/2 Cord for the season, as it has been pretty warm so far. I finally got around to splitting some of the 30"+ Logs that my buddy dropped off at my house, and it turns out it was all maple and LOCUST!  I also ended up making benches of this very big piece of maple. I had to roll them down the hill, and across the creek! lets just say I had to get creative on how to get them over the gap!! These pieces have been sitting in my yard for about 2 years......
> 
> View attachment 268611
> 
> ...



may the force be with you.... always


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## Rusty18 (Dec 6, 2020)

Long time lurker first time poster.
I got an encore 2550 with the house when we moved in in 2018.  You all helped flatten the learning curve a lot.  I’m fairly certain I would have sent this stove to the scrap pile had it not been for this site!  You can’t say properly sized and seasoned wood to may times! It is a must for controlled operation of this stove.  Hasn’t went nuclear at all so far this year and is actually enjoyable to run. (But it is a vc so it May have melted down since you started reading this post )

just wanted to say thanks to everybody on here for providing advice and justification to go with it (I get some funny looks when I tell people I burn pine lol)


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## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 6, 2020)

Rusty18 said:


> Long time lurker first time poster.
> I got an encore 2550 with the house when we moved in in 2018.  You all helped flatten the learning curve a lot.  I’m fairly certain I would have sent this stove to the scrap pile had it not been for this site!  You can’t say properly sized and seasoned wood to may times! It is a must for controlled operation of this stove.  Hasn’t went nuclear at all so far this year and is actually enjoyable to run. (But it is a vc so it May have melted down since you started reading this post )
> 
> just wanted to say thanks to everybody on here for providing advice and justification to go with it (I get some funny looks when I tell people I burn pine lol)
> View attachment 268655



 this site is all about helping people. learning frome each other and passing on ideas. I personally have learned alot and  am grateful to have found this site. I personally think VC is a good brand and a good stove for sure. Not the best stove but it is good. It may require more maintenance down the road.. but I'm ok with this.. I owne the 2040 and have no regrets at all. I find it easy to use


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 6, 2020)

Rusty18 said:


> Long time lurker first time poster.
> I got an encore 2550 with the house when we moved in in 2018.  You all helped flatten the learning curve a lot.  I’m fairly certain I would have sent this stove to the scrap pile had it not been for this site!  You can’t say properly sized and seasoned wood to may times! It is a must for controlled operation of this stove.  Hasn’t went nuclear at all so far this year and is actually enjoyable to run. (But it is a vc so it May have melted down since you started reading this post )
> 
> just wanted to say thanks to everybody on here for providing advice and justification to go with it (I get some funny looks when I tell people I burn pine lol)
> View attachment 268655


I even have a long time friend who grew up in the U.P. in a wood heated house and he even looks at me sideways when I tell him I burn pine in my stove. Its crazy how deep the folklore runs with people. Beautiful stove you have there and welcome to the forum.


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## agonyzhou (Dec 6, 2020)

Portchop said:


> Good evening. Hoping to get some ideas/opinions on my new (supposed) 2020 VC Montpelier 2 insert.
> the down side I’m seeing is this unit doesn’t have a damper. My fault for not noticing that but nonetheless we were told 8 hour burn.


I have the same model for more than a season now. The website says max 7 hours burn time; Which is achievable if you stuff it full with hard wood cut the the right length. I have done that a couple times. I now mostly stuff it anywhere between 40% to 75% full and get a burn time from 3 to 5 hours; depend on how much and what kind of wood. I gave up on over night burn now. I could do that (barely) but I don't see the point of having the stove pumping out excessive heat when the family are sleeping upstairs. On the plus side this stove is super easy to cold start so I do that every morning.


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## Dobish (Dec 7, 2020)

Reckless said:


> nice work. I’m very interested how the VC will handle that locust, hopefully not thermonuclear like I envision lol. I still get worried when I load up white oak.



I burned some last year, and I was a bit afraid when I saw the cat temps rise to 1500º Real quick!  I am probably 1' to 2' short on my chimney, so I don't have the best draft. On cold and windy nights, it is perfect!  I have been busy working on a few things around the house, including grading a path to get the wood up from down the hill. I started building stairs, but that turned into a much larger project that may involve a mini-excavator


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## Reckless (Dec 8, 2020)

agonyzhou said:


> I have the same model for more than a season now. The website says max 7 hours burn time; Which is achievable if you stuff it full with hard wood cut the the right length. I have done that a couple times. I now mostly stuff it anywhere between 40% to 75% full and get a burn time from 3 to 5 hours; depend on how much and what kind of wood. I gave up on over night burn now. I could do that (barely) but I don't see the point of having the stove pumping out excessive heat when the family are sleeping upstairs. On the plus side this stove is super easy to cold start so I do that every morning.


Gotta find those EPA holes and modify them to suit your needs


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 9, 2020)

Dobish said:


> I burned some last year, and I was a bit afraid when I saw the cat temps rise to 1500º Real quick!  I am probably 1' to 2' short on my chimney, so I don't have the best draft. On cold and windy nights, it is perfect!  I have been busy working on a few things around the house, including grading a path to get the wood up from down the hill. I started building stairs, but that turned into a much larger project that may involve a mini-excavator


I’m on a short stack as well. Are you able to keep your cap clean?  My glass stays clean and my cap turns dark brown.


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## Dobish (Dec 10, 2020)

RandyBoBandy said:


> I’m on a short stack as well. Are you able to keep your cap clean?  My glass stays clean and my cap turns dark brown.


I generally clean it twice a season.  I can easily get onto the roof and clean the whole system.  It's a mostly flat roof.  I gave up hoping to get the cap to stay clean for more than a few months


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## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 11, 2020)

Its going to be a nice weekend here so I'm going to sweep the pipe and do a clean out of the stove... started burning in October.. had a few breaks in burning here and there.


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## Diabel (Dec 11, 2020)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> Its going to be a nice weekend here so I'm going to sweep the pipe and do a clean out of the stove... started burning in October.. had a few breaks in burning here and there.


Nice!
They are calling for pretty cold temps for mid next week. Good time to do it. 
With the cleanings from the bottom i stopped worrying about the weather. Usually the first week of Jan the VC pipe gets cleaned, before the heavy guns enter the firebox.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 11, 2020)

Diabel said:


> Nice!
> They are calling for pretty cold temps for mid next week. Good time to do it.
> With the cleanings from the bottom i stopped worrying about the weather. Usually the first week of Jan the VC pipe gets cleaned, before the heavy guns enter the firebox.



my roof is pretty manageable  so I'm doing top down.  I would wait till the end of the month or beginning of January but work is looking pretty busy and I really want some time off over the holiday season.  Ill be running the gas fireplaces this weekend while its warm.. Love the idea of doing it myself and at my leisure.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 13, 2020)

so I cleaned it out and was very happy... not dirty. I was a little  Curious to see what it look like because we have been burning it on low a lot it has not been very cold..


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## Diabel (Dec 13, 2020)

That is a nice sight. Keep doing what you are doing


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## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 13, 2020)

Diabel said:


> That is a nice sight. Keep doing what you are doing



so much for the myth that the VC stoves are dirty.. I bet I have 350+ hours on the lowest air setting over the past 50 or so days and the pipe looks good..


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## Diabel (Dec 13, 2020)

I have to admit, your pipe looks much better than mine. My wood is very dry but it is 95% hemlock with thick bark.


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## Reckless (Dec 15, 2020)

Here it comes! They’re talking up to 18” over the next 2 days


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 15, 2020)

Reckless said:


> Here it comes! They’re talking up to 18” over the next 2 days


Good luck. Your VC should keep your warm and fed if you loose power. I wish we would get about 8 of those inches so I could make some money plowing.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 16, 2020)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Good luck. Your VC should keep your warm and fed if you loose power. I wish we would get about 8 of those inches so I could make some money plowing.



Looks like the forecast craped out on me.. they were calling for 5 to 8 inches.. They are saying  the rain snow line moved up farther north.. Looks like I moved 6 machines and got 8 plow trucks for nothing..  Another snow disappointment..


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 16, 2020)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> Looks like the forecast craped out on me.. they were calling for 5 to 8 inches.. They are saying  the rain snow line moved up farther north.. Looks like I moved 6 machines and got 8 plow trucks for nothing..  Another snow disappointment..


This is my last year plowing. I’m tired of being a slave to the forecast for not a whole lot of return.  I would much rather spend some quality time at my cabin during the winter.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 16, 2020)

RandyBoBandy said:


> This is my last year plowing. I’m tired of being a slave to the forecast for not a whole lot of return.  I would much rather spend some quality time at my cabin during the winter.



Its worth it to me as I'm on a larger scale and when it snows its worth it.. I dont like storms like this.. its iffy, I may work. I just wish it was like 25 out.. light wind and get a quick 6 inches, and be done in 10 hours


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## Reckless (Dec 16, 2020)

Anyone else got a wood inspector? Every bin I bring in gets a sniff


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## Diabel (Dec 16, 2020)

She is checking the moisture content.


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## trispad (Dec 18, 2020)

arnermd said:


> Hello All,
> 
> Wondering if anybody has a proven method for testing a bimetal thermostat in a Vermont castings model 1975 (2n1) that does not require stove teardown.  In my stove getting to the thermostat  requires removing the top and internal air passage castings (I have heard older models had a simple cap to expose the bimetal).  I tried removing the thermostat handle and heating the shaft with a propane torch, no movement from the air inlet damper.  Not sure that method would be effective as the bimetal is a huge fin, not sure I can pump enough heat into the shaft to heat the bimetal coil.
> 
> ...



A day late and a dollar short... did you ever find a solution? Did you try heating from the inside? Not sure if you can remove the right air manifold without removing a lot of other stuff. If it is helpful attached is the service manual, it says Encore, but also includes the Defiant.


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## frased (Dec 19, 2020)

Chimney fire last night.

I thought something was "off" when I had everything aired down and still saw a small flame.  Should have taken the warning signs more seriously.

Had 3 pieces of oak like normal.  CAT alarm went off after a while.  Opened cat air to cool it.  Went upstairs for a minute and fire shot up chimney.  I could hear the rumble.  Ran back down.

Came downstairs and fire was raging!  Chimney fire had begun and smoke was billowing out pipe.  Time for immediate action.  Had to open a window, and remove 3 flaming pieces 1 at a time.  Chuck out the window into the snow.  Chimney fire slowly stopped and chimney temp came down.

I just checked the cooled stove and all seems to be operating normal.  Checked gaskets and no apparent leaks.  Did new door and griddle gaskets last year.

I'm starting to wonder if I didn't close the ash pan door 100% perfectly.  Hmmmmm.  One thing about this 2550 if you have 1 small tiny air penetration anywhere it seems to have a mind of its own.

Attached pic of coals in bottom of stove.  The entire bottom of my stove coal bed was RED RED hot.  I've never seen the coal bed so RED.

Sorta nervous about my next burn now.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 19, 2020)

Clean your chimney... I just did mine last week after burning on low alot. It was pretty clean but still doesn't hurt to run the brush down the pipe where there's a break in the weather... I got the soot eatter  I do a cleaning like mid season and end of the year.. was like 125 bucks.. Most issues are either a maintenance or user related..

here's a pick of my stove last night
	

		
			
		

		
	




BTW... sorry to hear.. that pretty much sucks...


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 19, 2020)

frased said:


> Chimney fire last night.
> 
> I thought something was "off" when I had everything aired down and still saw a small flame.  Should have taken the warning
> Had 3 pieces of oak like normal.  CAT alarm went off after a while.  Opened cat air to cool it.  Went upstairs for a minute and fire shot up chimney.  I could hear the rumble.  Ran back down.
> ...


Do you leave an ash bed in the firebox?  There are (2) epa holes just behind the front legs that feed air into the ash pan.


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## frased (Dec 20, 2020)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Do you leave an ash bed in the firebox?  There are (2) epa holes just behind the front legs that feed air into the ash pan.



not really I emptied stove about 24-36 hrs before the event. Do I need to empty daily during steady burns?

I’ve just never seen my coal bed so blazing red


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 20, 2020)

I leave a solid 2” sometimes 3” layer of ash in the stove at all times.  This helps keeps any air leaks from the ashpan door or the epa holes from having much influence on the burn.


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## Diabel (Dec 20, 2020)

RandyBoBandy said:


> I leave a solid 2” sometimes 3” layer of ash in the stove at all times.  This helps keeps any air leaks from the ashpan door or the epa holes from having much influence on the burn.


^^^^
what he said!


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## frased (Dec 21, 2020)

Diabel said:


> ^^^^
> what he said!





RandyBoBandy said:


> I leave a solid 2” sometimes 3” layer of ash in the stove at all times.  This helps keeps any air leaks from the ashpan door or the epa holes from having much influence on the burn.



And here I am thinking I was doing good by “cleaning out” the stove completely every few days.
So what I’m hearing is empty the ash pan like normal. Scoop out extreme extra ash. But leave the ash bed that forms around sides/back/ and front epa areas?


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 21, 2020)

Usually I just empty the ashpan every few days and just stir things up to get the ash to fall down into the empty pan. I don’t even worry about shoveling anything out. However, my ashpan door has a bad spot in the gasket and I have had zero time to do any gasket work so I’ve left the pan completely full and have been shoveling out ash when it gets to deep.


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 21, 2020)

So to answer your question, yes. Leave a bed of ash in the stove. Let us know how that works for you.


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## Reckless (Dec 22, 2020)

RandyBoBandy said:


> So to answer your question, yes. Leave a bed of ash in the stove. Let us know how that works for you.


I only empty my pan when the ash reaches the door and only then do I dump the tray but I leave the bed of ash to fall through on its own. If you left the pan open and it was fairly empty it would have created the roar and gotten hot enough to ignite anything in it’s way. Mine becomes a blast furnace pretty quick when I open the ash door to help a fire get going. Glad you caught it pretty quick, do you have a liner? You might want to check it for damage.


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## frased (Dec 22, 2020)

I have an 8" insulated selkirk stainless chimney.  But my first few feet (where the chimney fire was flaming) was in the initial non insulated double wall pipe coming off the stove.  Luckily it wasn't going long before I was on top of it.  My pipe thermometer was half way into the RED.  But not buried.  Although it didn't need to be it was growling/smoking/rumbling at me!  

Thanks for the tips all.  I literally was emptying and fully cleaning out all ash in my stove after a few days.  I have noticed in the past when the ash has really built up in the stove its very calm and easier to maintain.  

Same here if I open my ash door during a fire for empty it rages!


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## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 22, 2020)

frased said:


> I have an 8" insulated selkirk stainless chimney.  But my first few feet (where the chimney fire was flaming) was in the initial non insulated double wall pipe coming off the stove.  Luckily it wasn't going long before I was on top of it.  My pipe thermometer was half way into the RED.  But not buried.  Although it didn't need to be it was growling/smoking/rumbling at me!
> 
> Thanks for the tips all.  I literally was emptying and fully cleaning out all ash in my stove after a few days.  I have noticed in the past when the ash has really built up in the stove its very calm and easier to maintain.
> 
> Same here if I open my ash door during a fire for empty it rages!



I also have an 8in double wall pipe and the same single wall adapter.. The 8in will draft hard when the pipe gets warm. I leave ash in the bottom also after a clean out. My stack isn't very tall like 15ft total. Im burning pretty clean but still clean 2xs a year to be on the safe side in case of user error. Glad you made out ok..


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## frased (Dec 22, 2020)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> I also have an 8in double wall pipe and the same single wall adapter.. The 8in will draft hard when the pipe gets warm. I leave ash in the bottom also after a clean out. My stack isn't very tall like 15ft total. Im burning pretty clean but still clean 2xs a year to be on the safe side in case of user error. Glad you made out ok..


We have a 56 degree day coming Xmas day in MA.  Going to jump up on the roof and clean the chimney while I have the opportunity.


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## Jimmy C (Dec 22, 2020)

RandyBoBandy said:


> I leave a solid 2” sometimes 3” layer of ash in the stove at all times.  This helps keeps any air leaks from the ashpan door or the epa holes from having much influence on the burn.


This is an interesting idea.  Ive noticed my burns are less likely to become volatile with a thick ash layer.  Also it will insulates the coals for a long time.  But what about when your starting a new fire?  Or need to get more air for a full load?


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## Jimmy C (Dec 22, 2020)

frased said:


> Chimney fire last night.
> 
> I thought something was "off" when I had everything aired down and still saw a small flame.  Should have taken the warning signs more seriously.
> 
> ...


What temps did your CAT hit?


----------



## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 22, 2020)

Jimmy C said:


> This is an interesting idea.  Ive noticed my burns are less likely to become volatile with a thick ash layer.  Also it will insulates the coals for a long time.  But what about when your starting a new fire?  Or need to get more air for a full load?



When starting  a new fire I normally rake some of the ash into the pan. One of 2 things normally happen.. If its not really cold I rake the ash and start a new fire. The other is its cold and just keep the fire going for days and let the ash build up. If I rake the ash I leave about .5 inch of ash. This keep the heat up in the box and and keeps the stove temp up. I find that if I completely clean the ash out it takes longer to get the stove up to temp and get the cat to light off.


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## Jimmy C (Dec 22, 2020)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> When starting  a new fire I normally rake some of the ash into the pan. One of 2 things normally happen.. If its not really cold I rake the ash and start a new fire. The other is its cold and just keep the fire going for days and let the ash build up. If I rake the ash I leave about .5 inch of ash. This keep the heat up in the box and and keeps the stove temp up. I find that if I completely clean the ash out it takes longer to get the stove up to temp and get the cat to light off.


I always figured I was helping the CAT light off by raking ash and getting more air in.  If I am starting a new fire in a cold stove, I rake pretty much all the ash to isolate unburned fuel.  If I still have enough coals to fill it full (usually after 8 hours or less) I kind of just push the coals in the back towards the throat hood.  It seems to help cat take back off, but I don't want to break them up.  So I all the coals in the front go to the back and the front gets raked down to the grate.  

I'm usually having to start a fire from a cold stove every few days or so when I just didn't get to the stove in over 10 hours for whatever reason.  This is when I would rake out all of the ash to start a fire from scratch and isolate unburned coals.  Times when I have a thick, consistent bed of ash, is when I have been burning for like a week or more without having to rebuild a fire.


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## frased (Dec 22, 2020)

Jimmy C said:


> What temps did your CAT hit?


My alarm is set to 1800... and it’s only hit that 2-3 times in the past 2 seasons. 

Cat usually is at proper temps.


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## frased (Dec 22, 2020)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> When starting  a new fire I normally rake some of the ash into the pan. One of 2 things normally happen.. If its not really cold I rake the ash and start a new fire. The other is its cold and just keep the fire going for days and let the ash build up. If I rake the ash I leave about .5 inch of ash. This keep the heat up in the box and and keeps the stove temp up. I find that if I completely clean the ash out it takes longer to get the stove up to temp and get the cat to light off.


Quick question starting a from cold stove... a fresh new fire do you empty the pan completely? Trying to picture the 5 inches in bottom of stove.


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 22, 2020)

Jimmy C said:


> This is an interesting idea.  Ive noticed my burns are less likely to become volatile with a thick ash layer.  Also it will insulates the coals for a long time.  But what about when your starting a new fire?  Or need to get more air for a full load?


I have been able to kindle a fire back to life with a coal buried in the ash 27 hours after my last reload. I’m am by no means calling this a 27 hour burn. I’m just supporting the insulation factor of ash.   If I do have to start a new fire from scratch I use the top down method with my largest pieces on the bottom and progressively getting smaller  as I load the firebox.  I always start new fires and reloads with the primary air fully open. No need for anymore air than that.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 23, 2020)

frased said:


> Quick question starting a from cold stove... a fresh new fire do you empty the pan completely? Trying to picture the 5 inches in bottom of stove.



It depends on how much ash is actually in the stove. Im not saying how I do it is the best and only way. LAST NIGHT  I started with a cold stove. I emptied the ash pan because it was completely full and I still had plenty of ash in the fire box. If there's enough ash in the bottom of the of the stove and the pan is full the pan gets emptied.  If the pan is only partially full to empty like it is right now I will rake the ash every couple days to keep the ash to about an inch until the pan is full, then empty again. I usually vacuum my cat like every 10 days or so. I use to clean the stove completely when I first started, then realized I didn't need to and cat  Engagement was slow on full clean outs.


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## Jimmy C (Dec 23, 2020)

frased said:


> My alarm is set to 1800... and it’s only hit that 2-3 times in the past 2 seasons.
> 
> Cat usually is at proper temps.



I have not seen mine hit 1800 yet.  Not saying it hasn't, only that I have not seen it.  I just installed a new one and its already gotten up to 1705 once and 1711 another time.  Really hoping to get this cat to last 6 or 7 seasons.  Gaskets are good, maybe I just need to be more aware of the size of the splits.

I was considering setting an alarm for 1800 but honestly, I don't want to have to wake up in the middle of the night in case it does hit that high.  Plus the alarm setting is super loud and we have an 8 month old baby.  If I saw it happen before I might be more inclined to worry about it.  I'm sure hitting 1700 is not great though.


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## Jimmy C (Dec 23, 2020)

RandyBoBandy said:


> I have been able to kindle a fire back to life with a coal buried in the ash 27 hours after my last reload. I’m am by no means calling this a 27 hour burn. I’m just supporting the insulation factor of ash.   If I do have to start a new fire from scratch I use the top down method with my largest pieces on the bottom and progressively getting smaller  as I load the firebox.  I always start new fires and reloads with the primary air fully open. No need for anymore air than that.



I am going to start keeping a thick layer of ash.  I've had some problems with over firing and I think the EPA holes and/or extra air from ash pan are the problem.  Almost every burn I'm hitting 1600 plus on the CAT and 700 on griddle top at least at one point.  I've never had much luck with top down burns.   Going forward, I guess I will just empty the ash pan when full and only rake a small area in the center when starting a fire from scratch.


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## Jimmy C (Dec 25, 2020)

Per the discussion about leaving a layer of ash at all times...

So my ash pan is about half full right now and I have an inch, or maybe a little less, in the bottom of the stove.  Today its strangely warm outside so I wont be starting a fire until tomorrow.  When I do, my plan is just to start it on top of all of this ash, but usually I would be raking all of this to access all of the unburned fuel.  Also,  I always figured having the grate exposed helped more air pass through and made for an easier startup, but I have never tried this so I am curious to see how it works.  The last couple days I did not rake at all on reloads and it seemed to keep the burn more tamed.  For one burn at least, the CAT was cruising around 1050 when its usually about 1450 when cruising.  
Anyway that's going to be the experiment tomorrow. Hope everyone has a Merry Christmas!


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## frased (Dec 25, 2020)

Jimmy C said:


> Per the discussion about leaving a layer of ash at all times...
> 
> So my ash pan is about half full right now and I have an inch, or maybe a little less, in the bottom of the stove.  Today its strangely warm outside so I wont be starting a fire until tomorrow.  When I do, my plan is just to start it on top of all of this ash, but usually I would be raking all of this to access all of the unburned fuel.  Also,  I always figured having the grate exposed helped more air pass through and made for an easier startup, but I have never tried this so I am curious to see how it works.  The last couple days I did not rake at all on reloads and it seemed to keep the burn more tamed.  For one burn at least, the CAT was cruising around 1050 when its usually about 1450 when cruising.
> Anyway that's going to be the experiment tomorrow. Hope everyone has a Merry Christmas!



Same here hoping to get my stove going again this weekend using the ash method.  60 outside today.  Snow on roof is completely gone.  I'm going to do a quick cleaning.  Merry Xmas all!


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 25, 2020)

Jimmy C said:


> Per the discussion about leaving a layer of ash at all times...
> 
> So my ash pan is about half full right now and I have an inch, or maybe a little less, in the bottom of the stove.  Today its strangely warm outside so I wont be starting a fire until tomorrow.  When I do, my plan is just to start it on top of all of this ash, but usually I would be raking all of this to access all of the unburned fuel.  Also,  I always figured having the grate exposed helped more air pass through and made for an easier startup, but I have never tried this so I am curious to see how it works.  The last couple days I did not rake at all on reloads and it seemed to keep the burn more tamed.  For one burn at least, the CAT was cruising around 1050 when its usually about 1450 when cruising.
> Anyway that's going to be the experiment tomorrow. Hope everyone has a Merry Christmas!


You can take your shovel and kind of rake the charcoal front and center if you want. I always do a top down burn on cold starts so I don’t pay much mine to the charcoal. It will eventually burn.  What I usually will do when my ash is getting deep I use the shovel down through the top loader and kind of pry everything to the back of the stove. Then sort of sift the charcoal out towards the front of the stove if there is any. I usually don’t have much of it. If you you are getting an abundance of charcoal this could mean your wood isn’t completely dry thus not achieving a complete burn!?!


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## Reckless (Dec 25, 2020)

Agreed, easier to get a fire going in the morning with plenty of coals buried and no issues getting one going from cold. If you want to still use the ash pan for helping get the fire going, I usually dig a single slot out of the bottom grill towards the front where the ash pan door opens and that’s all it needs.


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## frased (Dec 25, 2020)

RandyBoBandy said:


> You can take your shovel and kind of rake the charcoal front and center if you want. I always do a top down burn on cold starts so I don’t pay much mine to the charcoal. It will eventually burn.  What I usually will do when my ash is getting deep I use the shovel down through the top loader and kind of pry everything to the back of the stove. Then sort of sift the charcoal out towards the front of the stove if there is any. I usually don’t have much of it. If you you are getting an abundance of charcoal this could mean your wood isn’t completely dry thus not achieving a complete burn!?!


Dumb question... what’s the “top down” procedure?


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## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 25, 2020)

frased said:


> Dumb question... what’s the “top down” procedure?



top down is like ..sticks on top.. small pieces under that, medium under that.. large under that..


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## Diabel (Dec 25, 2020)

I tried, never worked with my VC.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 25, 2020)

Me personally I don't do top down either. I do a  Jenga style. medium 
	

		
			
		

		
	



	

		
			
		

		
	
splits on the bottom with twigs in between.. 6 pieces of cut kindling(that I make myself) with a piece of small wood on top.. catches quick, not alot of smoke, gets the draft going quickly.


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## Rusty18 (Dec 25, 2020)

+1 for
-Leaving ash in the stove (read it on here and tried it, very pleased with the results)
-never use ash pan door for lighting among other reasons listed on here ash can get in the gastet and you can’t get it to seal off...ask me how I know 
-rake coals to one side so the whole reload doesn’t go at the same time.  It actually gives me the illusion I have some control over the stove.
-top down lighting.  Haven’t had to use the map gas since I started doing it this way and it’s up to temp and running in minutes not hours.


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 25, 2020)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> top down is like ..sticks on top.. small pieces under that, medium under that.. large under that..


What Woodsplitter67 said. Then you light the top tinder pile and away she goes. I will put three big pieces on bottom then 3-4 medium pieces. My next layer is about 1-1-1/2” splits that I start laying diagonally. My next layer is the same size in the opposite diagonal. Then I cross cross some tinder sticks and top it with some smaller tinder. Once the tinder sticks are burning decently I top it with a few more kindling sticks about 1-1/2”-2” and let it do it’s thing.  I typically burn 24/7 so it’s mostly reloads for me. I will have to cold start when I get back from my cabin though so I will take some pics and post them.


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## frased (Dec 26, 2020)

Rusty18 said:


> +1 for
> -Leaving ash in the stove (read it on here and tried it, very pleased with the results)
> -never use ash pan door for lighting among other reasons listed on here ash can get in the gastet and you can’t get it to seal off...ask me how I know
> -rake coals to one side so the whole reload doesn’t go at the same time.  It actually gives me the illusion I have some control over the stove.
> -top down lighting.  Haven’t had to use the map gas since I started doing it this way and it’s up to temp and running in minutes not hours.


Another thing I probably did wrong last week I didn’t rake coals and just reloaded. Probably ignited the fresh splits like kindling.


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## Diabel (Dec 26, 2020)

I leave the ash in until the stove becomes sluggish or noticeably starved for air. This tells me that not enough air is coming in via the two holes by the ash pan, then time to empty the ashes.


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## Jimmy C (Dec 26, 2020)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> Me personally I don't do top down either. I do a  Jenga style. medium
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I do the same except I put a few pieces of fatwood on top of the first row to speed things up.


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## frased (Dec 27, 2020)

Chimney cleaned. Had more creosote than I thought... definitely helped my situation.


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## Jimmy C (Dec 27, 2020)

On reload procedure:

Do you leave the bypass open for a couple minutes to get everything heated up again before engaging the CAT?

Also, do you notice a slower climb to secondary burn temps on reloads then on startups?

I've only been using a CAT thermometer for a season now and am trying to nail down proper procedures but its hard to find what works best consistently.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 27, 2020)

frased said:


> Chimney cleaned. Had more creosote than I thought... definitely helped my situation.


Its better just to run the brush down.. Doesn't hurt to keep it clean. I sleep better at night knowing that my chimneys clean and the chances of a chimney fire is low. Sometimes there is some user error other times there mechanical error.. in either case.. its not compounded by a dirty chimney.. Glad all is working out


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## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 27, 2020)

shut the stove down for the night.. cat is just where I like it


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 27, 2020)

Jimmy C said:


> On reload procedure:
> 
> Do you leave the bypass open for a couple minutes to get everything heated up again before engaging the CAT?
> 
> ...


Hot reloads pretty much carry the same procedure as a cold start.
Open bypass 
Open griddle top
Fill firebox/close griddle/open primary fully
Let stove pipe hit 500-600 (internal temp) and close bypass. 
Let cat hit 700-800 and close primary 1/4
Let cat hit 1200-1300 turn primary down 1/4
Set final adjustments to your likings. 
You have to adjust your increments to your stove and chimney length. Guys like @Reckless who have tall stacks are probably shutting their stuff down sooner than I do. 
This is a good basic guide line however. Try it out and report back. 
Also outside temps will have a play in this. During shoulder season my increments on the primary are much smaller due to less draw. Super cold days and I’m shutting it down pretty quick.


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## Reckless (Dec 27, 2020)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Hot reloads pretty much carry the same procedure as a cold start.
> Open bypass
> Open griddle top
> Fill firebox/close griddle/open primary fully
> ...


30’ to be exact...
Hot or cold I only watch the pipe therm. Depending on load size I shut the damper at 300-350 but I’m not sure on the accuracy of this mag therm. Full throttle until 1050 cat then 1/4 down once it hits 1150-1200 I’m down about 1/2 air. Since I have all other air holes closed I can’t go much past half without extinguishing all the flames in the box. Everyone’s stove is unique and you can only take bits a pieces and apply to your own situation.


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## Reckless (Dec 27, 2020)

Got a question for everyone... where you live and what’s your primary wood type? This might help some of the new guys to understand why certain things work.

Mid NY, white ash and red oak.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 28, 2020)

Southern New Jersey....
Mostly oak.. some black cherry.. 
my wood is dry.. anywhere from 
8 to 15% MC


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## Diabel (Dec 28, 2020)

Eastern Ontario 
With temps around freezing point I burn mainly hemlock. If colder, hard maple, some beech and black and honey locust. All seasoned more than 3 years.


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 28, 2020)

My house is in southeastern Michigan and I’m burning oak, ash, maple, locust, hickory, cherry, elm
My cabin is 220 miles north in Atlanta MI. I’m burning maple, beech, birch and sometimes hemlock and fir. If I buy firewood up here I get oak, however, I haven’t bought firewood in years. Just been pulling it off the property.


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## Rusty18 (Dec 28, 2020)

South east ohio
Yellow pine, cutting trees off of the house so it’s either split and burn or let the worms get it.   And anything else that happens to fall.


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## Jimmy C (Dec 29, 2020)

So definitely better results since letting the stove come up to temp on reloads before closing bypass.  I was consulting the original manual which said to close bypass right away on reloads.  I usually would let it burn open for a while because things didn't seem right when closing bypass right away.  It only takes about 5 mins to get all the way back to temp so sticking with this will be easy.

As for when to start shutting air down, I usually need to start much sooner and definitely need to close air all the way well before 1300.  Usually by the time CAT is at 600 I have to shut 1/4 then by 800 primary air needs to be at 1/2.  Usually momentum starts to slow a little by then (jumping by 3 degrees at a time instead of 5) so depending on how fast temp is increasing, I  have it completely closed anywhere between 1000 and 1150.  It will usually carry over into the 1200 - 1300's and stay there for a while.  It seems like every burn I hit a second gear at one point where it jumps up to 1400-1600 and then slowly goes back down to 1200 to the remainder of the burn.  I rarely ever have the air open any more than a slight crack.  I have about 26' or 28' from top of stove to cap so this may be why it does not need much air.  Sometimes I wonder if I should be leaving the air only closed 1/2 or 3/4 because the increased amount of smoke is causing CAT to hit those high temps, but this usually causes the stove to get real hot and heat the house like a sauna.  So I guess its a question of what's the lesser of two evils.


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## Jimmy C (Dec 29, 2020)

Southern CT here.

Burning a lot of red and white oak.  Maple, Poplar, Ash and Black and Honey Locust mixed in as well.


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 29, 2020)

Jimmy C said:


> So definitely better results since letting the stove come up to temp on reloads before closing bypass.  I was consulting the original manual which said to close bypass right away on reloads.  I usually would let it burn open for a while because things didn't seem right when closing bypass right away.  It only takes about 5 mins to get all the way back to temp so sticking with this will be easy.
> 
> As for when to start shutting air down, I usually need to start much sooner and definitely need to close air all the way well before 1300.  Usually by the time CAT is at 600 I have to shut 1/4 then by 800 primary air needs to be at 1/2.  Usually momentum starts to slow a little by then (jumping by 3 degrees at a time instead of 5) so depending on how fast temp is increasing, I  have it completely closed anywhere between 1000 and 1150.  It will usually carry over into the 1200 - 1300's and stay there for a while.  It seems like every burn I hit a second gear at one point where it jumps up to 1400-1600 and then slowly goes back down to 1200 to the remainder of the burn.  I rarely ever have the air open any more than a slight crack.  I have about 26' or 28' from top of stove to cap so this may be why it does not need much air.  Sometimes I wonder if I should be leaving the air only closed 1/2 or 3/4 because the increased amount of smoke is causing CAT to hit those high temps, but this usually causes the stove to get real hot and heat the house like a sauna.  So I guess its a question of what's the lesser of two evils.


Sounds like you are finding your rhythm. Yeah the manual for my defiant is garbage as well. I didn’t really start running my VC stoves correctly until I started lurking around this forum.  I will also get a mid burn spike in cat temps sometimes. It’s weird, the stove will be cruising along and all of a sudden she goes into a steady climb to around 1500-1600 and then gradually falls.  If I’m looking to put the stove in “auto pilot”  for whatever reason I will find where the primary flapper is fully shut at that given point in the burn by jiggling the handle a little bit and listening for the “clank” sorta speak.  Then I will just back it off a little bit leaving the primary slightly open. This will keep the cat above  1200 but below 1500 and the GT cruising around 400.


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## Jimmy C (Jan 1, 2021)

How many splits do you use on a full load?

I'm sorry for the barrage of basic (dumb) questions this year, but I ask because I am splitting wood for the season after next.  With the average size of the wood I am currently burning I can fit as many as 6 or 7 splits on a full load.  If I pick out the biggest pieces I can still usually get at least 5.  I have had some issues with overfiring the CAT on full loads and figured it was because of too many splits off gassing.  

The wood I am splitting currently, I have been keeping average piece fairly large to avoid this.  Almost looks like boiler wood.  I have heard people on here talking about adding 3 or 4 splits only, but even with large pieces, that would only fill my fire box 2/3 of the way at most.  Do you guys still consider this a full load?


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## Diabel (Jan 1, 2021)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Sounds like you are finding your rhythm. Yeah the manual for my defiant is garbage as well. I didn’t really start running my VC stoves correctly until I started lurking around this forum.  I will also get a mid burn spike in cat temps sometimes. It’s weird, the stove will be cruising along and all of a sudden she goes into a steady climb to around 1500-1600 and then gradually falls.  If I’m looking to put the stove in “auto pilot”  for whatever reason I will find where the primary flapper is fully shut at that given point in the burn by jiggling the handle a little bit and listening for the “clank” sorta speak.  Then I will just back it off a little bit leaving the primary slightly open. This will keep the cat above  1200 but below 1500 and the GT cruising around 400.


I also see the mid burn spike in the cat temp regularly.


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## Diabel (Jan 1, 2021)

Jimmy C said:


> How many splits do you use on a full load?
> 
> I'm sorry for the barrage of basic (dumb) questions this year, but I ask because I am splitting wood for the season after next.  With the average size of the wood I am currently burning I can fit as many as 6 or 7 splits on a full load.  If I pick out the biggest pieces I can still usually get at least 5.  I have had some issues with overfiring the CAT on full loads and figured it was because of too many splits off gassing.
> 
> The wood I am splitting currently, I have been keeping average piece fairly large to avoid this.  Almost looks like boiler wood.  I have heard people on here talking about adding 3 or 4 splits only, but even with large pieces, that would only fill my fire box 2/3 of the way at most.  Do you guys still consider this a full load?


My splits are big. Usually, I fit three of them and maybe one small filler split.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Jan 1, 2021)

Jimmy C said:


> How many splits do you use on a full load?
> 
> I'm sorry for the barrage of basic (dumb) questions this year, but I ask because I am splitting wood for the season after next.  With the average size of the wood I am currently burning I can fit as many as 6 or 7 splits on a full load.  If I pick out the biggest pieces I can still usually get at least 5.  I have had some issues with overfiring the CAT on full loads and figured it was because of too many splits off gassing.
> 
> The wood I am splitting currently, I have been keeping average piece fairly large to avoid this.  Almost looks like boiler wood.  I have heard people on here talking about adding 3 or 4 splits only, but even with large pieces, that would only fill my fire box 2/3 of the way at most.  Do you guys still consider this a full load?



My fire box is 2.3 cuft  I I split specifically for overnight. I split square and rectangle pieces. I will normally fit about 5 splits in the bod and its packed tightly. It forms 1 giant pice of wood with no air gaps in between the wood. Believe me when I say I need to let the load catch before shutting it down. To me it sounds like you have have space between your splits and your getting hot and gassing off at the same time.  Each setup is a little different. The way I'm running  mine my cat never gets above 1480.. Normally I'm at 1200 to 1250. Sometimes I get a spike getting into the 1400s or it may dip as low as 900 if I shut it down without it fully catching. It will take a bit for it to jup back up to the 1200 range. I find it unreasonable to have the expectation that the stove will behave the same every night. It will vary some due to some user error like shutting the air down to quickly or running it to hot, letting to much catch.  Are u splitting your own wood..


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## Reckless (Jan 1, 2021)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> My fire box is 2.3 cuft  I I split specifically for overnight. I split square and rectangle pieces. I will normally fit about 5 splits in the bod and its packed tightly. It forms 1 giant pice of wood with no air gaps in between the wood. Believe me when I say I need to let the load catch before shutting it down. To me it sounds like you have have space between your splits and your getting hot and gassing off at the same time.  Each setup is a little different. The way I'm running  mine my cat never gets above 1480.. Normally I'm at 1200 to 1250. Sometimes I get a spike getting into the 1400s or it may dip as low as 900 if I shut it down without it fully catching. It will take a bit for it to jup back up to the 1200 range. I find it unreasonable to have the expectation that the stove will behave the same every night. It will vary some due to some user error like shutting the air down to quickly or running it to hot, letting to much catch.  Are u splitting your own wood..


I have these monster red oak 6x6x18 splits I’ve been sitting on for about 6 years now, opened one up the other day to check moisture and they are 12-14.  just waiting for a single digit night to toss 1 in on top of some smaller splits. My stove may occasionally  get up to 1500s mid burn but usually doesn’tpeak much above 1450s normally.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Jan 1, 2021)

Reckless said:


> I have these monster red oak 6x6x18 splits I’ve been sitting on for about 6 years now, opened one up the other day to check moisture and they are 12-14.  just waiting for a single digit night to toss 1 in on top of some smaller splits. My stove may occasionally  get up to 1500s mid burn but usually doesn’tpeak much above 1450s normally.


 Your lenth of wood is the same as me. I this lenth leaves just below 2 inches on either side. You and I are probably stacking the box the same.  In my stove I usually start shutting down when the 2nd tear wood starts to catch. Do you split square ish also


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## Rusty18 (Jan 1, 2021)

Loading is something I’m still perfecting but I think I’ve come up with a different way to look at it.  Feel free to tell me to keep my crazy ideas to myself but it seems to work pretty well with my stove.  I can load approximately 600 sq in’s worth of splits (yes I meant to say square inches) and have a repeatable reaction.  A particular load may be 4-5 small splits or 1-2 big ones that I have to shoe horn in.  The catching and turning down time changes obviously but I’m able to turn stove down without back-puffing or having a run away.  Once I go over 700 sq in’s it seems like all bets are off, big splits are easier shut down than little ones but 600-700 sq in’s worth of split surface area seems to be the sweet spot for my stove.

just an observation...


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## Woodsplitter67 (Jan 1, 2021)

Jimmy C said:


> How many splits do you use on a full load?
> 
> I'm sorry for the barrage of basic (dumb) questions this year, but I ask because I am splitting wood for the season after next.  With the average size of the wood I am currently burning I can fit as many as 6 or 7 splits on a full load.  If I pick out the biggest pieces I can still usually get at least 5.  I have had some issues with overfiring the CAT on full loads and figured it was because of too many splits off gassing.
> 
> The wood I am splitting currently, I have been keeping average piece fairly large to avoid this.  Almost looks like boiler wood.  I have heard people on here talking about adding 3 or 4 splits only, but even with large pieces, that would only fill my fire box 2/3 of the way at most.  Do you guys still consider this a full load?


Here is a picture of some of the ones that I would use for overnight. While I am splitting I will split specifically for overnight. The rest will be regular splits and will be any shape.. pie shaped it doesn't matter to me its for the day and during the day the stove burns more evenly because the air is not turned down more than half way until the coaling stage.
       Today I woke up and lit the stove. It was to warm yesterday so I let it go out.
        I lit the stove at 5am and got it up to temp and got the cat engaged.  and added 2splits of wood and l let it run for a bit letting the cat run like 900+ a little bit about 6.15am
       Then I added alot of wood big splits and filled the box almost to the top.
      I let it catch a little and closed the damper let it run for 5 minutes  and then turned the air back to half way and let the stove go till all the wood went almost to coals. The box is filled  almost half way with coals at this point. At about 11am with the box filled with coals I turned the air down all the way as my house was warm enough like 75 in the stove room.. 71 in the hall to the kids bedrooms. its is now 4.12pm and the temp in my house has dropped some as it went down to 22 degrees at my house this morning. There are still active coals at the bottom of my stove and  my cat temp is 228 degrees. I will soon rake the ash, drop some small splits on the coals get my cat going and then load it up for the night and let it go. There are a number of ways to run this stove, this is just how I run it sometimes. You will need to use different techniques based on how cold it its outside and the amount of heat required.


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 1, 2021)

I also focus on square splits for the over night and morning loads when I am working. I shoot for 3-5 inch squares or rectangles. I tend to keep my oak in the 4” range so it doesn’t take half a decade to dry. I use the the smaller triangles and whatever’s to fill in the air gaps. My target length is 18”, however, not everyone I cut with pays attention to lengths. When I do get a batch of shorts I stack them all to one side of the stove and slide a split in vertically.  When it’s actual winter out I fill my stove to the brim twice a day. Sometimes I have to switch out my top piece because I can’t shut the griddle top.  Teens on down and and I have to do a helper load mid day. This load is either shorts or uglies that don’t stack well. Weekends and days off are also days where I burn up all the uglies, shorties, and chunks.


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 1, 2021)

This is a typical stove load for me.


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## Reckless (Jan 1, 2021)

Rusty18 said:


> Loading is something I’m still perfecting but I think I’ve come up with a different way to look at it.  Feel free to tell me to keep my crazy ideas to myself but it seems to work pretty well with my stove.  I can load approximately 600 sq in’s worth of splits (yes I meant to say square inches) and have a repeatable reaction.  A particular load may be 4-5 small splits or 1-2 big ones that I have to shoe horn in.  The catching and turning down time changes obviously but I’m able to turn stove down without back-puffing or having a run away.  Once I go over 700 sq in’s it seems like all bets are off, big splits are easier shut down than little ones but 600-700 sq in’s worth of split surface area seems to be the sweet spot for my stove.
> 
> just an observation...


I cannot stuff my stove to the gills either or I will go nuclear or it will back puff with the amount of wood gassing off there seems to be no sweet spot. I tend to only load the box 1/2 full and towards the glass away from the fire back. I like the smaller loads anyway I feel like I can keep the house warmer since I’m not always trying to turn the stove down.


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## Reckless (Jan 1, 2021)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> Your lenth of wood is the same as me. I this lenth leaves just below 2 inches on either side. You and I are probably stacking the box the same.  In my stove I usually start shutting down when the 2nd tear wood starts to catch. Do you split square ish also


I aim for squares but don’t always work out. Since the inside of the firebox is tapered if you go larger than 18 you’ll have a tough time to get it in once you’re past the andirons. I always get snagged around the air wash since I refuse to top load.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Jan 1, 2021)

Reckless said:


> I aim for squares but don’t always work out. Since the inside of the firebox is tapered if you go larger than 18 you’ll have a tough time to get it in once you’re past the andirons. I always get snagged around the air wash since I refuse to top load.



Its funny how we are all different.. I totally refuse to load from the front.. I bought a top loading stove to load from the top and avoid be on my knees.. Hardwood floors are exactly that... hard.. wood.. floors.. and are rough when kneeling down.. Like randy posted.. We load to the bottom of the griddle..


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## Jimmy C (Jan 3, 2021)

Thanks for all the responses, they have been very helpful...

So this morning i started up the stove as usual and after closing bypass, right as cat temp was coming up to 500, my thermometer went.  Or at least that's what seems to have happened.  My Auber AT100 is now just reading "EEEE".  I'm assuming I need a new thermometer.  Has anyone gotten this error message before?


----------



## Woodsplitter67 (Jan 3, 2021)

Jimmy C said:


> Thanks for all the responses, they have been very helpful...
> 
> So this morning i started up the stove as usual and after closing bypass, right as cat temp was coming up to 500, my thermometer went.  Or at least that's what seems to have happened.  My Auber AT100 is now just reading "EEEE".  I'm assuming I need a new thermometer.  Has anyone gotten this error message before?



Check the wire going into the auber.. my probe is 3 years old and is still reading fine..


----------



## Jimmy C (Jan 3, 2021)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> Check the wire going into the auber.. my probe is 3 years old and is still reading fine..


I replaced the thermocouple connectors because I had an extra set and even checked the settings to make sure it was still on K-type, still nothing.  I have the worst luck.  Back to operating blindly until I can figure this out...  Thinking of just ordering a new k type probe.


----------



## Woodsplitter67 (Jan 3, 2021)




----------



## Jimmy C (Jan 3, 2021)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> View attachment 271102


Yea I saw that and changed out the connectors that you crimp over the wires with new ones.  The setting is still on "k type" so its got to be the probe right?


----------



## Jimmy C (Jan 3, 2021)

unless its this thing i need:





__





						Three-pin connector for AT100 series thermometers [TPinCON] - $1.60 : Auber Instruments, Inc., Temperature control solutions for home and industry
					

Auber Instruments, Inc. Three-pin connector for AT100 series thermometers [TPinCON] - This 3-pin male connector fits the connectors on our AT100 series thermometers. Six wiring ferrules are provided.   Specifications: Voltage rating: 120 V Current rating: 8 A Width: 12.4mm (0.49'') Height...



					www.auberins.com


----------



## Woodsplitter67 (Jan 3, 2021)

Jimmy C said:


> unless its this thing i need:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I didn't use and connectors I just cut off what was there and stripped the wire and screwed it down


----------



## Reckless (Jan 3, 2021)

Jimmy C said:


> Yea I saw that and changed out the connectors that you crimp over the wires with new ones.  The setting is still on "k type" so its got to be the probe right?


Double check the wire, do you own a multimeter? You can check the wire for continuity to make sure you didn’t break it somehow.


----------



## Jimmy C (Jan 4, 2021)

Reckless said:


> Double check the wire, do you own a multimeter? You can check the wire for continuity to make sure you didn’t break it somehow.



Thanks for the help!
My multimeter is old but I put it on the ohms scale and the wire seems to have continuity.  I'm assuming its still fine and the connector went bad for whatever reason.  It's only $1.60 so I ordered 3 since shipping was like six bucks either way.  
Although I spent the first two and a half seasons burning without a CAT probe, its awful going from having one to not.  Especially after installing a brand new cat. Really hoping I don't over fire it too much.


----------



## Diabel (Jan 4, 2021)

Jimmy C said:


> Thanks for the help!
> My multimeter is old but I put it on the ohms scale and the wire seems to have continuity.  I'm assuming its still fine and the connector went bad for whatever reason.  It's only $1.60 so I ordered 3 since shipping was like six bucks either way.
> Although I spent the first two and a half seasons burning without a CAT probe, its awful going from having one to not.  Especially after installing a brand new cat. Really hoping I don't over fire it too much.


How does the end of the probe look like? Like new, discolored, burnt?


----------



## Jimmy C (Jan 4, 2021)

Diabel said:


> How does the end of the probe look like? Like new, discolored, burnt?



Didn't even think to look.  I'll check when I get home


----------



## Jimmy C (Jan 4, 2021)

Probe does not look burned and seems to have continuity but I just spoke with Kane (i think thats how he pronounced it) from Auber instruments and he said it has to be the sensor wire.  The likelihood of it being the connector is very slim.  Apparently the sensor wire can have no breaks but the spot where it connects to probe can be faulty and only show when it hits about 500 degrees.  Which would make sense because that was right when I got the error message.  I was able to add a new k thermocouple to my order for 50 percent off since mine only lasted a year.  Nice folks there.  I believe they're in China but I won't hold that against them.

A little tip I learned for anyone who has the AT 100: if you ever have an issue and are not sure if its the meter or the probe.... take tweezers and touch the positive and negative terminals.  It will read 70 (or maybe whatever your room temp is).  If you still have the error message then its the meter that's bad.  Hope that helps someone at some point.


----------



## Jimmy C (Jan 4, 2021)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> Here is a picture of some of the ones that I would use for overnight. While I am splitting I will split specifically for overnight. The rest will be regular splits and will be any shape.. pie shaped it doesn't matter to me its for the day and during the day the stove burns more evenly because the air is not turned down more than half way until the coaling stage.
> Today I woke up and lit the stove. It was to warm yesterday so I let it go out.
> I lit the stove at 5am and got it up to temp and got the cat engaged.  and added 2splits of wood and l let it run for a bit letting the cat run like 900+ a little bit about 6.15am
> Then I added alot of wood big splits and filled the box almost to the top.
> ...


Thanks for the tips...
I would say those are about the average size I am usually using over night as well.  I am feeling like I would have better luck with bigger splits.  On the left are the average of what I usually split and on the right are the new ones that I have been doing bigger.  Am I crazy?  I'm sure these wont be ready by next year but I'd rather wait and have decent splits and not over fire.


----------



## Reckless (Jan 10, 2021)

just went through and tightened all accessible bolts slightly including new SS upper fireback, they have been holding up well so far for those who were asking. slight air leak on the left door gasket but it’s still controllable so I’ll wait. Hope everyone is keeping safe and warm.


----------



## Reckless (Jan 10, 2021)

Jimmy C said:


> Thanks for the tips...
> I would say those are about the average size I am usually using over night as well.  I am feeling like I would have better luck with bigger splits.  On the left are the average of what I usually split and on the right are the new ones that I have been doing bigger.  Am I crazy?  I'm sure these wont be ready by next year but I'd rather wait and have decent splits and not over fire.


Both sides look like a good mixture of splits. Love the wood guard too, looks like it means business


----------



## Woodsplitter67 (Jan 10, 2021)

Reckless said:


> just went through and tightened all accessible bolts slightly including new SS upper fireback, they have been holding up well so far for those who were asking. slight air leak on the left door gasket but it’s still controllable so I’ll wait. Hope everyone is keeping safe and warm.


I broke a bolt that works the damper door.. replace it October 19 and so far.so good. A friend of mine owns a stove shop and that was what he suggested..


----------



## Reckless (Jan 10, 2021)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> I broke a bolt that works the damper door.. replace it October 19 and so far.so good. A friend of mine owns a stove shop and that was what he suggested..


Which? I’ve broken most bolts and handles on this stove lol. 1/4-20 couplers and bolts have been used in most places.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Jan 10, 2021)

Reckless said:


> Which? I’ve broken most bolts and handles on this stove lol. 1/4-20 couplers and bolts have been used in most places.


the bolt in the middle of the damper door.. had to drill it out.. it sucked..


----------



## Reckless (Jan 10, 2021)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> the bolt in the middle of the damper door.. had to drill it out.. it sucked..


Ahhh yes 1/4-20 ss there too when I had that out to regasket it.


----------



## Rusty18 (Jan 16, 2021)

So, loaded the ol encore up for a top down start.  Lite off good, stove top up to temp, stack up to temp, closed the bypass...and proceeded to kill mosquitos for 30 mins trying to get the cat up to temp.  Now (still on the original load) have the stove backed off to 400f and the cat is setting at 1600.  The only thing I changed is this load is all wood I had on the enclosed porch I didn’t burn from last time I had a fire and it maybe dried out too much?  I know 1600 isn’t demo high but you always get that nice spike when you kill all the air to the box trying to get it under control.


----------



## Diabel (Jan 16, 2021)

Rusty18 said:


> So, loaded the ol encore up for a top down start.  Lite off good, stove top up to temp, stack up to temp, closed the bypass...and proceeded to kill mosquitos for 30 mins trying to get the cat up to temp.  Now (still on the original load) have the stove backed off to 400f and the cat is setting at 1600.  The only thing I changed is this load is all wood I had on the enclosed porch I didn’t burn from last time I had a fire and it maybe dried out too much?  I know 1600 isn’t demo high but you always get that nice spike when you kill all the air to the box trying to get it under control.


You lost me on the “mosquito” part.


----------



## Rusty18 (Jan 16, 2021)

Stack was smoking...a lot.

I realize there are no mosquitos out flying around here this time of year...was trying to make light of the fact I was unable to get my stove up and running on the cat like it usually does.


----------



## Reckless (Jan 16, 2021)

killing mosquitoes lol. That happens to the best of us occasionally. Wood gassed faster than normal and cat couldn’tkeep up? Who knows.


----------



## Woodsplitter67 (Jan 16, 2021)

normally its difficult if the cole bed is low or small...


----------



## Rusty18 (Jan 17, 2021)

I think I found the problem this morning.  Did a small reload to get stove going again and as I was waiting on it to catch I was looking the bypass door over.  Nice clean edge where It seats on the gasket...except for about an inch along the top left.  Gonna be checking that seal Monday when the stove is cold.
This stove hasn’t had a bolt turned on it or a gasket replaced in over 20 years.  Probably still the factory gasket.


----------



## Reckless (Jan 20, 2021)

Rusty18 said:


> I think I found the problem this morning.  Did a small reload to get stove going again and as I was waiting on it to catch I was looking the bypass door over.  Nice clean edge where It seats on the gasket...except for about an inch along the top left.  Gonna be checking that seal Monday when the stove is cold.
> This stove hasn’t had a bolt turned on it or a gasket replaced in over 20 years.  Probably still the factory gasket.


Down the rabbit hole you go....


----------



## Russn77 (Jan 20, 2021)

First time post here. I've been lurking ALOT the past week trying to research and find my stove. Does any VC owner here have any experience with the VC Dauntless Flexburn? It's a newer stove.  We are hearth-mounting and its one of the few that I think will fit. Is this a stove that I'm going to have to monitor all the time to ensure all the settings are correct? I'm coming from a 1980 Federal Airtight that is a finicky B*$*@&, and I don' want anything similar.


----------



## Russn77 (Jan 20, 2021)

Russn77 said:


> First time post here. I've been lurking ALOT the past week trying to research and find my stove. Does any VC owner here have any experience with the VC Dauntless Flexburn? It's a newer stove.  We are hearth-mounting and its one of the few that I think will fit. Is this a stove that I'm going to have to monitor all the time to ensure all the settings are correct? I'm coming from a 1980 Federal Airtight that is a finicky B*$*@&, and I don' want anything similar.




Sorry, here's a pic of my fireplace for reference.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Jan 20, 2021)

I believe that my primary air may be going out of adjustment.. when the stove is cold.. the primary air door should be closed.. so says the manual... where should be the primary air control handle be...Im assuming all the way back...Is there any recommendations that you you guys have on adjusting the primaryair..... my stove is a 2040


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## Rusty18 (Jan 21, 2021)

Well it looks like I may have lucked out.  After a light wire brushing and vacuum of the bypass damper seat and gasket I broke out the ol dollar bill.  To tight to get out on the right side, was able to pull out on the left side but had decent resistance.  The gasket felt the same on both sides. ‍
While I was in there I vacuumed the top of the cat, would have removed it for inspection but the fireback is apparently stuck to the refractory.
Small fire in it now, it’s running like it always has.

my suspicion is a piece of bark ended up in the bypass gasket and started a small leak that just got bigger as time went by.   I like top loading but it’s bit me twice now, just gonna stick with front load.  First time I got a small piece of bark in the gasket for the top door, that’s when I started always turning on the lights to do reloads!
I also took the opportunity to bolt the dragons back on, one was loose and the other had fell of completely.


----------



## Diabel (Jan 21, 2021)

Good to hear. I have only front loaded my vc on hot coals. It was one big piece of ugly maple that would not fit from the top. Did not like the experience.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Jan 22, 2021)

any thoughts  on post 197...


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## Woodsplitter67 (Jan 22, 2021)

where and the secondary air holes located in the ash pan area


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## Diabel (Jan 22, 2021)

On the 2550, right as you open the ash pan door in the upper corners.


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## Diabel (Jan 22, 2021)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> I believe that my primary air may be going out of adjustment.. when the stove is cold.. the primary air door should be closed.. so says the manual... where should be the primary air control handle be...Im assuming all the way back...Is there any recommendations that you you guys have on adjusting the primaryair..... my stove is a 2040


I have no idea how the 2040 is designed. On the 2550 the primary air is controlled by the right hand side lever. The secondary air is controlled by the spring controlled flap. 
is your stove behaving any different now?


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## Rusty18 (Jan 22, 2021)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> any thoughts  on post 197...


I don’t have a 2040 but when cold and the handle all the way back (kinda pointed towards the back bottom part of the stove). The primary air is completely shut.  I’ve not had the experience of adjusting it yet though so can’t help out there.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Jan 22, 2021)

Diabel said:


> I have no idea how the 2040 is designed. On the 2550 the primary air is controlled by the right hand side lever. The secondary air is controlled by the spring controlled flap.
> is your stove behaving any different now?


 yes my secondary temps are not the same. My cat normally runs 12 to 1400 I'm not getting that temp any more.. I swapped to a new cat and the same thing.. I swept the chimney and only got 1/4 cup out of it.. pulled the  Telescopeing pipe that connects to the stove and found nothing abnormal.  My cat sometimes stalls or runs low as compared to all the years prior... my stove pipe is 8in and draft has never been an issue... I thought maybe the primary air was out of adjustment  I adjusted it last night and its a little better but not much andnot running like it has over the years.. I'm now looking for secondary air supply.. this stove has run perfectly and I haven't had to do any work to it so this is a learning experience...


----------



## Diabel (Jan 22, 2021)

Hm.
And your wood is good? Maybe you are pulling wood from a different wood pile. Low cat temps usually indicate unseasoned fuel


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## Woodsplitter67 (Jan 22, 2021)

Diabel said:


> Hm.
> And your wood is good? Maybe you are pulling wood from a different wood pile. Low cat temps usually indicate unseasoned fuel


Its definitely not wood related this woods 15% and I even switched piles and am burning wood thats kiln dried now..


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## Diabel (Jan 22, 2021)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> Its definitely not wood related this woods 15% and I even switched piles and am burning wood thats kiln dried now..


Then maybe a blockage in the air flow somewhere.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Jan 22, 2021)

this is what I'm trying to figure out.. cant find anything on line of where the secondary air is located... im going to go home after work and see if I can locate something...
I did a test and if I crack the door with the cat engaged... it takes right off like normal...


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## Diabel (Jan 22, 2021)

I dont know how the 2040s insides (around the refractory package) are designed. On the 2550 the gases pass through the cat and exit on each bottom side of the refractory. These exit points need to be vacuumed sometimes. Fly ash from the chimney can accumulate there.


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## Rusty18 (Jan 22, 2021)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> this is what I'm trying to figure out.. cant find anything on line of where the secondary air is located... im going to go home after work and see if I can locate something...
> I did a test and if I crack the door with the cat engaged... it takes right off like normal...



maybe there a few dust bunnies sucked up in the primary air intake?  I seem to remember reading on here about someone having a pile of cobwebs in their primary air duct right past the damper, I don’t remember which thread it was on though.


----------



## Woodsplitter67 (Jan 22, 2021)

Rusty18 said:


> maybe there a few dust bunnies sucked up in the primary air intake?  I seem to remember reading on here about someone having a pile of cobwebs in their primary air duct right past the damper, I don’t remember which thread it was on though.



My stove is pretty clean.. no bunny's


----------



## RandyBoBandy (Jan 22, 2021)

If I remember correctly you adjust the air control to the fully closed position not the fully open position.  Sounds right that it would be on a cold stove and with the handle in the closed position.  Can you hear the shutter “clack” against the stove when you shut the handle all the way down?  What makes you think your primary is out of adjustment?


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## Woodsplitter67 (Jan 23, 2021)

RandyBoBandy said:


> If I remember correctly you adjust the air control to the fully closed position not the fully open position.  Sounds right that it would be on a cold stove and with the handle in the closed position.  Can you hear the shutter “clack” against the stove when you shut the handle all the way down?  What makes you think your primary is out of adjustment?



I'm not getting the burn i used to. I am looking for information regarding the secondary air.. I am trying to locate the holes around the ash pan area. on my 2024 to see if there's a restriction there. my secondary is not taking off like it should. I started with the primary air and ruled that out...


----------



## defiant3 (Jan 23, 2021)

So yes, with the lever towards the back of the stove the draft control should be closed.  Why do we think it needs adjustment again? Late to the  party here, sorry.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Jan 23, 2021)

check out post 205..


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 24, 2021)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> I'm not getting the burn i used to. I am looking for information regarding the secondary air.. I am trying to locate the holes around the ash pan area. on my 2024 to see if there's a restriction there. my secondary is not taking off like it should. I started with the primary air and ruled that out...


Is there a secondary probe on the 2024? The only EPA holes I know of on my 2250 are right behind the front legs


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## Woodsplitter67 (Jan 24, 2021)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Is there a secondary probe on the 2024? The only EPA holes I know of on my 2250 are right behind the front legs


yes.. I have the AT100 in it..


----------



## RandyBoBandy (Jan 24, 2021)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> yes.. I have the AT100 in it..


I mean the secondary probe for the secondary air shutter.  Does your stove have it or did VC dump that method for your model?


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## Woodsplitter67 (Jan 24, 2021)

RandyBoBandy said:


> I mean the secondary probe for the secondary air shutter.  Does your stove have it or did VC dump that method for your model?


I am not sure.. Im having difficulty locating information.. I haven't had to do anything to this stove so I dont know...


----------



## Rusty18 (Jan 24, 2021)

__





						VC 2040 Temp drops after damper for cat is closed
					

Heated my stove up to about 550 with splits that my General moisture meter says was from 10.5 - 15.5. After building up a coal bed for 30 minutes, making sure that I have a good sized load in my stove,  and running my stove at about 550, I threw the lever to start using my Cat. What I am seeing...




					www.hearth.com
				




Came across this thread, seems like a similar problem?
Still looking for a stove diagram.  That was just the first thing that popped up.


----------



## Rusty18 (Jan 24, 2021)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> I'm not getting the burn i used to. I am looking for information regarding the secondary air.. I am trying to locate the holes around the ash pan area. on my 2024 to see if there's a restriction there. my secondary is not taking off like it should. I started with the primary air and ruled that out...



the pic with the leg is the left side stove of the ash pan, you just can see the edge of the hole.

the other pic has the ash pan latch for reference.

these are of a 2550.


----------



## Woodsplitter67 (Jan 24, 2021)

Rusty18 said:


> the pic with the leg is the left side stove of the ash pan, you just can see the edge of the hole.
> 
> the other pic has the ash pan latch for reference.
> 
> these are of a 2550.


thanks for your reply..I clean that area 2xs a month.. 

thanks for the pics... ill look at the stove once it cools..


----------



## RandyBoBandy (Jan 24, 2021)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> thanks for your reply..I clean that area 2xs a month..
> 
> thanks for the pics... ill look at the stove once it cools..


Are you using the rear heat shield?


----------



## Woodsplitter67 (Jan 25, 2021)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Are you using the rear heat shield?


yes


----------



## Woodsplitter67 (Jan 25, 2021)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Are you using the rear heat shield?


why are u asking about the heat shield..


----------



## Diabel (Jan 25, 2021)

This is strange. You put a new cat in, cleaned the pipe and the stove. As I said earlier, the refractory box has to have air inlet and outlet. You have to figure out how to access these outlet. I am pretty sure they are on the bottom right and left side of the box. On the 2550 i can access these with a flexible 1” vacuum hose via the bypass. And there is always quite of debris.


----------



## RandyBoBandy (Jan 25, 2021)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> why are u asking about the heat shield..


If you remove it we can have a better idea of how the secondary air is supplied and regulated.


----------



## RandyBoBandy (Jan 25, 2021)

Diabel said:


> This is strange. You put a new cat in, cleaned the pipe and the stove. As I said earlier, the refractory box has to have air inlet and outlet. You have to figure out how to access these outlet. I am pretty sure they are on the bottom right and left side of the box. On the 2550 i can access these with a flexible 1” vacuum hose via the bypass. And there is always quite of debris.


I have found it to be easier to leave an andiron loose so it is easily removable in order to remove the lower fireback. Just pop the two wedges out, pull the lower fire back out and you have full access to the refractory box. I to have vacuumed all kinds of crap out from the sides of the refrac box where it exhausts.


----------



## RandyBoBandy (Jan 25, 2021)

Ok I’m looking at the manual for the 2040 trying to figure out the secondary air system. This stove is a completely different design than my 2250. I wondering if the 2040 has a fixed flow rate for the secondary air. Looking at the manual it appears there are several holes in the fireback which if memory served me correctly someone on this forum in years past plugged some of these holes with machine screws to regulate secondary air. Upon a quick skim of the manual it looks like the refractory system has a removable panel and cover to access the back of the stove in order to clean the ash away from the channels of exhaust flow. Do you clean top down or stove side up?


----------



## Diabel (Jan 25, 2021)

@RandyBoBandy 
No need to remove anything in order to clean the behind the fireback area. Just as I mentioned, use a 1” flexible vacuum hose. 2min job.
Yes, I remember someone plugging these hole, but that was a fast burn rate issue. This member has a issue with not enough air.


----------



## Woodsplitter67 (Jan 26, 2021)

Last night when I got home I took apart the stove... Very easy to work on.. all the bolts came out with out any issue.. thank the lord.... I took the left side aire manifold out.. I vacuumed out the body of the stove from the LHS.. I did the LHS because the glass on that side was dirty and the LHS of the box seemed to lack flame.. I fully vacuumed the stove, cleaned the secondary air holes in the front, removed the cat and vacuumed the entire area again, inspected fireback, reassembled and ran the stove.. Last night the fire was more even through the box and I checked to see if I had control of the fire with the air .. and I did.. no leaks... I loaded up the stove some and got the secondary going... found another issue.... IR gun malfunction.. reading to hot.. temp on stove is 350.. gun says 700... Broke out replacement gun... Last night cat was 1150.. went no less than 1050.. no higher than 1285.. woke up this morning glass was a little tinted.. and an even color across the glass. Loaded up the stove this morning glass came clean and cat is sitting a 1k.. 
I want to thank all on here who has replied and tried to help. I really do appreciate any time for your replies and any research you did..
I'll keep you posted on how things are going..


----------



## Blackcat (Jan 26, 2021)

We’ve had our VC 2040 Encore for about 5 years now.  I’ve had to replace the catalyst a few years ago- it just disintegrated. 
The other day when I had a fire going, I hear a “rolling” sound and then a puff of smoke come out around the doors. I opened the damper and let the fire just burn out.
I took the back panel out yesterday to check the catalyst, which seemed fine, just blew out some crud, but the refractory stone seems like it’s deteriorating.  I vacuumed anything that was under the catalyst. 
The wood I use is definitely dry, but maybe too dry? The stove didn’t come with a cat probe. I close the damper when griddle temp hits 450-ish. 
I’m posting a picture of what the stone looks like. Is this normal wear and tear or something to be concerned about? 
Hoping to get a fire going today


----------



## Blackcat (Jan 26, 2021)

We’ve had our VC 2040 Encore for about 5 years now.  I’ve had to replace the catalyst a few years ago- it just disintegrated. 
The other day when I had a fire going, I hear a “rolling” sound and then a puff of smoke come out around the doors. I opened the damper and let the fire just burn out.
I took the back panel out yesterday to check the catalyst, which seemed fine, just blew out some crud, but the refractory stone seems like it’s deteriorating.  I vacuumed anything that was under the catalyst.
I’m posting a picture of what the stone looks like. Is this normal wear and tear or something to be concerned about?
Hoping to get a fire going today


----------



## Woodsplitter67 (Jan 26, 2021)

Blackcat said:


> We’ve had our VC 2040 Encore for about 5 years now.  I’ve had to replace the catalyst a few years ago- it just disintegrated.
> The other day when I had a fire going, I hear a “rolling” sound and then a puff of smoke come out around the doors. I opened the damper and let the fire just burn out.
> I took the back panel out yesterday to check the catalyst, which seemed fine, just blew out some crud, but the refractory stone seems like it’s deteriorating.  I vacuumed anything that was under the catalyst.
> I’m posting a picture of what the stone looks like. Is this normal wear and tear or something to be concerned about?
> Hoping to get a fire going today



Thats normal... eventually it will need to be replaced.. The entire refractory and cover will go.. After all the hours it runs and the kind of heat going through it.. it will pit...


----------



## RandyBoBandy (Jan 26, 2021)

So is there any regulation to the secondary air or is it a fixed flow rate? On the 2040 that is.


----------



## Woodsplitter67 (Jan 26, 2021)

RandyBoBandy said:


> So is there any regulation to the secondary air or is it a fixed flow rate? On the 2040 that is.


I haven't pulled apart my stove fully... it seams that the air come in frome the primary air intake at the back of the stove and gets  divided up... some for primary air and some for secondary air..there's not alot on the net regarding specs


----------



## Jimmy C (Jan 27, 2021)

Blackcat said:


> We’ve had our VC 2040 Encore for about 5 years now.  I’ve had to replace the catalyst a few years ago- it just disintegrated.
> The other day when I had a fire going, I hear a “rolling” sound and then a puff of smoke come out around the doors. I opened the damper and let the fire just burn out.
> I took the back panel out yesterday to check the catalyst, which seemed fine, just blew out some crud, but the refractory stone seems like it’s deteriorating.  I vacuumed anything that was under the catalyst.
> I’m posting a picture of what the stone looks like. Is this normal wear and tear or something to be concerned about?
> Hoping to get a fire going today



Not super familiar with the 2040 but I have heard the scaling that your seeing is caused from over firing.  A secondary probe would help you know for sure.


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 27, 2021)

To the brim  Can’t get any fuller than that boys.


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## Diabel (Jan 27, 2021)

RandyBoBandy said:


> To the brim  Can’t get any fuller than that boys.


Perfect fit for overnight burn.


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 27, 2021)

Diabel said:


> Perfect fit for overnight burn.


I love it when they just fall into place like that. It definitely doesn’t happen every time. This is why I pay very close attention when I’m bucking and splitting.


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## Diabel (Jan 27, 2021)

RandyBoBandy said:


> I love it when they just fall into place like that. It definitely doesn’t happen every time. This is why I pay very close attention when I’m bucking and splitting.


Same here. The Princess is so much easier to load.
Yet, I still have a soft spot for my VC.


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 27, 2021)

If I could put an ashford on my hearth I would in a heartbeat. I agree though, my encore has been a solid heater and I am very attached to it.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Jan 28, 2021)

My wood was all the way to the top last night.. just couldn't get the top quite closed.. had to give a little shake and got the pile down enough to get her closed.  I was looking a blaze king when we were in the market for a stove.. the wife didn't like the looks.. Im not disappointed in my vc stove at all.. iv grown quite attached to it..


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 28, 2021)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> My wood was all the way to the top last night.. just couldn't get the top quite closed.. had to give a little shake and got the pile down enough to get her closed.  I was looking a blaze king when we were in the market for a stove.. the wife didn't like the looks.. Im not disappointed in my vc stove at all.. iv grown quite attached to it..


How is the stove burning after cleaning it?  I studied the parts brake down for a solid 45 minutes the other night and what I’m assuming is the secondary air is regulated through the same hole as the primary air. I’m still not sure how the air channels are divided yet.


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## Jimmy C (Jan 28, 2021)

RandyBoBandy said:


> To the brim  Can’t get any fuller than that boys.


Nice! How many Splits?  I've noticed 4 splits and I rarely ever get over 1550, 5 splits and I may get close to 1700 but usually peak before that. 6 splits or more however and I ALWAYS over-fire.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Jan 28, 2021)

RandyBoBandy said:


> How is the stove burning after cleaning it?  I studied the parts brake down for a solid 45 minutes the other night and what I’m assuming is the secondary air is regulated through the same hole as the primary air. I’m still not sure how the air channels are divided yet.



its running great.. the air comes in the back and goes through some ports in the body up into the air manifolds and out the air wash on the doors.. the air.. it gets divided  between primary and secondary.. and comes out the wholes at the fireback..last night the cat at 1250 when first engaged and it settled in at 1050 to 1080 after the aire was cut all the way.. full load ran like that for hours.. glass stayed pretty clean.. had some tint this morning.. but burned right off.... with probably 20k hours on it.. most likely had some buildup in the air passage inside the stove body...


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## Woodsplitter67 (Jan 28, 2021)

Jimmy C said:


> Nice! How many Splits?  I've noticed 4 splits and I rarely ever get over 1550, 5 splits and I may get close to 1700 but usually peak before that. 6 splits or more however and I ALWAYS over-fire.



no matter how much wood I put in my stove it doesn't overfire. Your cat temp is getting to high.. Id cut the primary air back sooner that what you doing.. or... your splits are small and to much is catching and your gassing off all at once.. try the largest splits for over night.. I packed my stove last night... like 50lbs of wood and it was only 5 splits..


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## Jimmy C (Jan 28, 2021)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> no matter how much wood I put in my stove it doesn't overfire. Your cat temp is getting to high.. Id cut the primary air back sooner that what you doing.. or... your splits are small and to much is catching and your gassing off all at once.. try the largest splits for over night.. I packed my stove last night... like 50lbs of wood and it was only 5 splits..


Bigger splits seems like the solution.  I've been splitting bigger pieces since last year so hopefully will have a lot more bigger splits next year.  Although, I feel like my problem is mechanical as well as operational.  Even when I use 5 large oak splits that fill the entire box, I sometimes get into the low 1700's.  Usually I can keep the peak under or around 1600, but not always.  I am definitely shutting down as early as possible. I start closing at 600 when I can see a proper take off.  Usually have it all the way closed by 1100 but sometimes this causes secondary to drop back to 800-900 and hang there for a while.  Usually I see smoke coming out of the chimney when this happens as well.  I try and make sure temp is still rising before closing all the way. 

  I am starting to think my bimetallic coil that controls the air shutter for the secondary needs to be replaced.  Is there a way to check if its working properly?  I was going to just open that plate in the back and put a mirror back there to see if I can watch it working correctly while stove is running.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Jan 28, 2021)

Jimmy C said:


> Bigger splits seems like the solution.  I've been splitting bigger pieces since last year so hopefully will have a lot more bigger splits next year.  Although, I feel like my problem is mechanical as well as operational.  Even when I use 5 large oak splits that fill the entire box, I sometimes get into the low 1700's.  Usually I can keep the peak under or around 1600, but not always.  I am definitely shutting down as early as possible. I start closing at 600 when I can see a proper take off.  Usually have it all the way closed by 1100 but sometimes this causes secondary to drop back to 800-900 and hang there for a while.  Usually I see smoke coming out of the chimney when this happens as well.  I try and make sure temp is still rising before closing all the way.
> 
> I am starting to think my bimetallic coil that controls the air shutter for the secondary needs to be replaced.  Is there a way to check if its working properly?  I was going to just open that plate in the back and put a mirror back there to see if I can watch it working correctly while stove is running.



sometimes what we see coming out of the chimney is not smoke... if its white to a very light gray.. off whiteish...your good to go.. I used to think that if its burning properly you will see nothing... but thats just not the case all the time..


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 28, 2021)

Jimmy C said:


> Nice! How many Splits?  I've noticed 4 splits and I rarely ever get over 1550, 5 splits and I may get close to 1700 but usually peak before that. 6 splits or more however and I ALWAYS over-fire.


I’m guessing 7 or 8. I try and keep my splits in the 3”-5” range. I also try and square off my splits as much as possible so they stack nice and tight.  I blocked my secondary air so I have a lot of control over the burn.


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## Jimmy C (Jan 29, 2021)

RandyBoBandy said:


> I blocked my secondary air so I have a lot of control over the burn.



How do you do this?


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 29, 2021)

Jimmy C said:


> How do you do this?


What model stove do you have ?


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## Jimmy C (Jan 29, 2021)

RandyBoBandy said:


> What model stove do you have ?


2550


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 29, 2021)

Ok cool. You will have to take off the rear heat shield and the secondary air probe cover. Take off the secondary air shutter. There should be a round washer that lets the shutter pivot easily. Remove that. If the shutter has a little pin in it that keeps the shutter from closing all the way you need to remove that as well. Now put the shutter back on without connecting the rod to the probe. Hold it in the completely closed position and snug the screw up. Done. I attached a small magnet to the bottom of the stove so the shutter can’t fall down and start to open up on top. Put your heat shield back on and burn away. You will have to change your primary air habits a little bit to accommodate this change since all the air is now coming from the primary air supply and the epa holes.


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## Diabel (Jan 29, 2021)

I also put aluminum tape over it. +1 on the primary air control habits.


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 29, 2021)

Here’s the magnets I was speaking of. These worked good too when I still had the shutter connected and was playing around with the timing of the air probe. The magnets would keep the shutter from continuing to open allowing a gap on the top side of the shutter which would then send the cat temps into orbit. I finally got sick of always hanging out behind a hot stove messing with it. So I disconnected the shutter and locked it tight. Haven’t looked back.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Jan 30, 2021)

redman said:


> So this year I bought gasket kit and replaced for the doors, glass, griddle, ashpan, flue collar, damper. The damper was the hardest. I ended up applying the cement with my finger onto the fireback and thought it would do. But realized the bottom of damper does not create tight seal like the rest of the sides. There’s a nice little visible gap see pic below. It sits too high once closed like the bottom of the damper is almost level with the top of fireback! if I can only bring it down then I think I’m in business. *Can someone please tell me if there is a way to adjust it to go down so I can have a tight seal??(Encore 2n1 2040) thank you



I'm thing your slightly warped.. comes from being to hot. I'd put a thicker gasket in the warped area  If it was me... I'd order either door or housing depending on where the problem is and drop in a new part in over the spring or summer.


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## Reckless (Jan 30, 2021)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Here’s the magnets I was speaking of. These worked good too when I still had the shutter connected and was playing around with the timing of the air probe. The magnets would keep the shutter from continuing to open allowing a gap on the top side of the shutter which would then send the cat temps into orbit. I finally got sick of always hanging out behind a hot stove messing with it. So I disconnected the shutter and locked it tight. Haven’t looked back.


I stuffed old gasket rope in my epa holes. And stuffed old refractory in my secondary before disconnecting and tightening the shutter.


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## Reckless (Jan 30, 2021)

So I was wrong about white oak, my stove loves it! Burning it exclusively with these single digit temps.


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## Blackcat (Jan 31, 2021)

So after another weird flame out 2 days after the first one, I took the blackened parts to the place where we purchased the stove to see if they had any advice for what may have happened or I’m doing wrong. No real help there. Had me set up an appt for a chimney cleaning and a stove check.
Last night as I was staring at my stove with the pieces lying in front of it, I realized my mistake: I’m pretty sure I had a piece of the refractory stone in backwards. Not the access plate, the other piece before you take the cat out. I remembered that it started to come out with the access plate when I went to check what happened, and it has never come out like that before. A true duh moment.
Cleaned up the stove and hoping to get a fire going later on. Crossing my fingers that I just did a dumb thing.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Jan 31, 2021)

Blackcat said:


> So after another weird flame out 2 days after the first one, I took the blackened parts to the place where we purchased the stove to see if they had any advice for what may have happened or I’m doing wrong. No real help there. Had me set up an appt for a chimney cleaning and a stove check.
> Last night as I was staring at my stove with the pieces lying in front of it, I realized my mistake: I’m pretty sure I had a piece of the refractory stone in backwards. Not the access plate, the other piece before you take the cat out. I remembered that it started to come out with the access plate when I went to check what happened, and it has never come out like that before. A true duh moment.
> Cleaned up the stove and hoping to get a fire going later on. Crossing my fingers that I just did a dumb thing.


I dont see anything recently about this.. can you take a picture of how your putting it together.. what stove are u running


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## Blackcat (Jan 31, 2021)

I had posted earlier this week with the flaking on the refractory panels. It was just normal wear and tear.
Had a low roar and puff-out of smoke out of the doors, which made me take out the catalyst the next day. The stove did it again th next fire with the smoke puff-out at the back. I opened the damper and shut down the stove.
Both refractory covers had black on them and the catalyst had a slight black coating, though the cells are clear and intact.
I realized last night that when I had checked the catalyst before the first fire-I more than likely placed it in backwards. It seemed to fit somewhat so I didn’t question myself at the time.
She’s doing a fine job tonight, thankfully, since we’re supposed to get a foot or two of snow in the next day or so.
It’s a VC 2040 Encore.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Feb 1, 2021)

Blackcat said:


> I had posted earlier this week with the flaking on the refractory panels. It was just normal wear and tear.
> Had a low roar and puff-out of smoke out of the doors, which made me take out the catalyst the next day. The stove did it again th next fire with the smoke puff-out at the back. I opened the damper and shut down the stove.
> Both refractory covers had black on them and the catalyst had a slight black coating, though the cells are clear and intact.
> I realized last night that when I had checked the catalyst before the first fire-I more than likely placed it in backwards. It seemed to fit somewhat so I didn’t question myself at the time.
> ...



So.. back puff is a build up of Gass in the box.. which means a couple things.. your gassing off a lot of wood and the air needs to be turned up some, or your draft went weak.. your pipe was not hot enough or did not stay hot enough which is your cat ran a little cool.. like 6/700 degrees.. I like to keep my cat at 1k to less than 1475..

There's an area on my primary air that I rarely use.. between 1/3.  and 1/2.. I can shut the aire all the way down  with no issues.. but with a good amount of wood it gasses off to fast or much for that air setting


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## Diabel (Feb 1, 2021)

Blackcat said:


> Both refractory covers had black on them and the catalyst had a slight black coating,


This tells me that your burning practices need some refining and/or your fuel is not ready. Do you have any thermometers on the stove, pipe, cat probe?


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## Blackcat (Feb 1, 2021)

It was 100% not having the inner refractory cover placed correctly. It was not letting the air flow correctly at the cat and it just built up and “blew up”. 
Good burn last night with no issues. I let it get a bit hotter than usual to burn off the crud. Glass was 100% clean this morning. 
with. Foot of snow already out there and another one or more predicted, I’ll be lighting up shortly.


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## Jimmy C (Feb 1, 2021)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Here’s the magnets I was speaking of. These worked good too when I still had the shutter connected and was playing around with the timing of the air probe. The magnets would keep the shutter from continuing to open allowing a gap on the top side of the shutter which would then send the cat temps into orbit. I finally got sick of always hanging out behind a hot stove messing with it. So I disconnected the shutter and locked it tight. Haven’t looked back.



I will be tackling this during the off season. I want to get a longer stove pipe (mine comes out horizontally into a T) so I can have more room behind the stove.  As it is now, I have to pull it foward to take out the probe or clean out the chimney.  I will add this project onto that.  Thanks for the help.


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## Jimmy C (Feb 1, 2021)

Well, my 4-year-long running problem has happened once again...  I just moved a new face cord from my stacking area to right outside my house where I keep the wood I'm burning.  Its mostly oak, so I was not *too* concerned when it seemed a bit heavier than I expected.  I noticed a good amount of checking going on at the ends so I figured it was ready to burn.  It was split and stacked in the late fall of 2019.  

When I loaded up the stove with this new wood I noticed low flames. So I opened the top loader and heard that dreadful sizzling sound.  It was not very loud, but noticeable.  I did not see any moisture boiling on the ends or anything like that.  After keeping some of the pieces inside for the night I split them open to  get a moisture reading.  Most of the smaller stuff is okay but anything 3"-4" was 22% to 25%.  I even had one that was 30%!  Honestly I'm shocked at how little this wood seasoned over the 16  months it was stacked.  

I have a face cord (or rick) of seasoned wood still that I will be mixing with this other stuff.  I am still probably going to need 2 cords to get through the season so there wont be much to mix going forward.  I also have a cord or two of some smaller spits ( 2.5" average) that I was planning on selling but will probably end up mixing with the partially seasoned stuff.  I have been keeping the damper open longer to try and burn off as much moisture as possible.  Also, it obviously takes longer to get up to temp and take off properly anyway in this scenario so I guess its serving two purposes.  I plan on just continuing this way.

Anyway the point of this post is to hear your guys' thoughts on this... From how you feel about burning partially seasoned wood in a catalytic wood stove (not good, I know), to what you think about mixing the fuel, also thoughts on keeping the damper open longer to burn off moisture, and lastly any tips on seasoning wood faster (I intend on building some sort of solar kiln eventually).


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## Woodsplitter67 (Feb 1, 2021)

I dont know your situation... but if this were me, I would not burn unseasoned wood. Id grab bio bricks or something like that. The whole unseasoned burning like crap would just piss me off. I'd burn what I have, look for solid fuel and turn on the heat to supplement.
As fas as the 18 months of season, you did 18 months with the coolest weather.. I season in 18 months.. starting in march.. so my wood has 2 summers to dry and 1 winter, your wood sat over 2 winters and 1 summer. Thats a big difference.. late spring, summer, and early fall is for seasoning.


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## arnermd (Feb 1, 2021)

trispad said:


> A day late and a dollar short... did you ever find a solution? Did you try heating from the inside? Not sure if you can remove the right air manifold without removing a lot of other stuff. If it is helpful attached is the service manual, it says Encore, but also includes the Defiant.



Just for posterity and hopes that it may benefit someone.....

What I ended up doing was making a "pointer extension" for the allen cap screw that secures the air adjustment cable to the air inlet door.  I found a metal pen pocket clip fit perfectly over the screw head.  I then fashioned a paperclip into a stationary pointer such that with air full open and stove cold it pointed right at the air door "indicator".  I lit off a fire and once the stove heated up I could see the air door had definitely closed slightly, it does not move very much.  As the stove cooled it opened up again.  I figured if it was moving at all the coil was likely fine.  I verified this over several fires at various temps.

Sadly a few weeks after that I discovered my rear refractory had cracked, real bad.  Fortunately HHT / VT Castings covered all the refractory under warranty.  After 6 weeks waiting for parts the stove top came off, damper out and I replaced the entire refractory engine.  4 hours and 20 ft of gasket later.... she was all back together

I love having this stove but I seriously wonder about the design.... With a full load I routinely see cat temps in the 1500+ range for an hour or two before it settles in to cruise at 1300 -1400 for 5-6 hours.  I really think this stove needs more secondary air to keep the refractory cooled.  I have not discovered an easy way to do that without increasing the primary air flow too.....  My griddle temps are good, 350 - 450 for 8 -10 hours.  This stove really needs secondary air control, like the older Encores.  I typically get 2-3 years out of a cat before it crumbles, too hot.....


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## Jimmy C (Feb 1, 2021)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> I dont know your situation... but if this were me, I would not burn unseasoned wood. Id grab bio bricks or something like that. The whole unseasoned burning like crap would just piss me off. I'd burn what I have, look for solid fuel and turn on the heat to supplement.
> As fas as the 18 months of season, you did 18 months with the coolest weather.. I season in 18 months.. starting in march.. so my wood has 2 summers to dry and 1 winter, your wood sat over 2 winters and 1 summer. Thats a big difference.. late spring, summer, and early fall is for seasoning.


Thanks, I was thinking of using the Bio bricks.  I used them around this time last year when I ran out of wood.  I will more likely just use the smaller splits after I run out of the seasoned stuff.  If mixing them is not working out I will just use only the small splits and keep the stove at half loads.  

I hear you on the 2 summers part, thats the goal from here on out.  I just figured that after a full year they would have been around 18% - 20% but not with oak apparently.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Feb 1, 2021)

Jimmy C said:


> Thanks, I was thinking of using the Bio bricks.  I used them around this time last year when I ran out of wood.  I will more likely just use the smaller splits after I run out of the seasoned stuff.  If mixing them is not working out I will just use only the small splits and keep the stove at half loads.
> 
> I hear you on the 2 summers part, thats the goal from here on out.  I just figured that after a full year they would have been around 18% - 20% but not with oak apparently.


I did a test on some of my wood a number of years ago. in December  you will louse roughly .25%MC in the month of December..while you will louse roughly 
2-3 %  mc in june..


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## RandyBoBandy (Feb 2, 2021)

Jimmy C said:


> Thanks, I was thinking of using the Bio bricks.  I used them around this time last year when I ran out of wood.  I will more likely just use the smaller splits after I run out of the seasoned stuff.  If mixing them is not working out I will just use only the small splits and keep the stove at half loads.
> 
> I hear you on the 2 summers part, thats the goal from here on out.  I just figured that after a full year they would have been around 18% - 20% but not with oak apparently.


Oak can take 2-3 years. I have also struggled with getting oak to season in a reasonable time frame. Therefore the majority of my oak gets split on the smaller side.  Its not a total loss, however, definitely not ideal and I wouldn’t run a full stove load with the oak only. You will just have to mix it with your dryer stuff. Resplit  the big ones down if you have to.  Leaving the damper open longer is an option but keep in mind you don’t want your stack temps to get to high. So definitely close the damper when your stack temps are ideal.  Once your damper is closed just leave your primary open longer in hopes of getting your griddle temps above 450-500 before the cat temps hit 1500.   Once you do start closing your primary it will probably have to happen with smaller increments than usual.


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## Rusty18 (Feb 6, 2021)

I finally gave up and broke out the duct tape (not duck tape).  Cat is running between 1000-1400 and near as I can tell no change in visible emissions.
I am also fairly certain the coil on my secondary was hanging up.  As I was putting the plate back on I noticed it would catch in the full open position so that may have been giving me trouble all along.  Either way it runs like it did before just without the nuclear cat behavior.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Feb 6, 2021)

Rusty18 said:


> I finally gave up and broke out the duct tape (not duck tape).  Cat is running between 1000-1400 and near as I can tell no change in visible emissions.
> I am also fairly certain the coil on my secondary was hanging up.  As I was putting the plate back on I noticed it would catch in the full open position so that may have been giving me trouble all along.  Either way it runs like it did before just without the nuclear cat behavior.



ok.. thats cool...


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## begreen (Feb 8, 2021)

A question came up from a new VC Defiant owner. Diablel was kind enough to respond. Any other thoughts?





						Please help me evaluate performance of new cat in VC Defiant Encore #2190
					

Thanks to all ahead of time.  This is a follow up to a previous thread asking for help replacing catalytic combustor in my VC Encore Defiant #2190.  Thanks again to Defiant3 for the help.  So, I replaced the cat and secondary air probe (OEM parts) in my #2190 which I have been running with a...




					www.hearth.com


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## jlggomez (Feb 8, 2021)

begreen said:


> A question came up from a new VC Defiant owner. Diablel was kind enough to respond. Any other thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks, begreen.  I look forward to other comments.


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## jlggomez (Feb 9, 2021)

Thank you all again for your thoughts and suggestions. You guys are great! It is really appreciated as we‘re trying to get a handle on all this after running a stove which came with our house and with some issues. It was in pretty sad shape and I’ve been trying to get it up to speed a bit at a time. New gaskets, new glass and, as I explained above, replacing a non working cat and secondary air probe. As suggested, I will get and install (with your help) a cat probe. A couple of additional questions for now and comments please on something that happened yesterday that is of concern.

We had the chimney and flue swept by a professional about a month ago and I THINK that in spite of that we had a small (?) fire in the flue/chimney just yesterday. All seemed well with how the stove was performing as described above. I did my usual morning ash clean up and reloading and went out to do some snow blowing (brutal up here in Andes, NY). I happened to look toward the house and noticed an unusual amount of gray/white smoke coming out the chimney. My wife, who was inside the house called me and said that the griddle temp was reading 450, but the flue temp had risen to 900(!). We never let that temp rise above 500 or so. She closed the air control completely, the temp started to fall and settled to normal. My concern is, per Randy’s comments, that I damaged the cat. Is it possible for the flue temp to rise so high while the griddle temp remains that much lower? After temps settled down, we did recommend test of the cat (per the manual) by opening and closing the damper and observing the amount of smoke leaving the chimney. Here’s the weird thing:

The first three times that we opened and closed the damper there was much MORE smoke with the damper closed than with it open; the opposite of what should happen. Afterwards things returned to normal; much less or no smoke with damper closed and more smoke with it open. Is it possible the cat was burning up ash that had fallen in during the possible flue fire. Or, was the smoke from the cat itself? This morning all seems normal. We did the smoke test again and things appeared to be normal; more smoke with damper open.
; less or none with damper closed. Temps are as described in my original post. Obvious concern: could I have damaged the cat either with too high a temp or with ash?

Lastly (for now ☺). Still a source of some confusion is that the Condar flue probe therm reads that 400-900 is the “Normal” range. Yet, my Imperial griddle top therm reads that 500 and higher is in the “Overfire” range. If I get flue temps up to 600 I am well into the “Overfire” range and, as Randy states, in danger of damaging the cat. Or, are the two temperatures more ”independent“ of each other than I thought? If the griddle temp is at 450, which is the temp the manual recommends to fire the cat, what would cause the cat’s temp to rise so much; assuming that was what happened? What am I missing?

BTW, Re Randy’s question: Yes, I can maintain a little bit, not much, flame in the box with damper closed.

Thank you all again for the help and patience. Huge help!


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## Woodsplitter67 (Feb 9, 2021)

jlggomez said:


> Thank you all again for your thoughts and suggestions. You guys are great! It is really appreciated as we‘re trying to get a handle on all this after running a stove which came with our house and with some issues. It was in pretty sad shape and I’ve been trying to get it up to speed a bit at a time. New gaskets, new glass and, as I explained above, replacing a non working cat and secondary air probe. As suggested, I will get and install (with your help) a cat probe. A couple of additional questions for now and comments please on something that happened yesterday that is of concern.
> 
> We had the chimney and flue swept by a professional about a month ago and I THINK that in spite of that we had a small (?) fire in the flue/chimney just yesterday. All seemed well with how the stove was performing as described above. I did my usual morning ash clean up and reloading and went out to do some snow blowing (brutal up here in Andes, NY). I happened to look toward the house and noticed an unusual amount of gray/white smoke coming out the chimney. My wife, who was inside the house called me and said that the griddle temp was reading 450, but the flue temp had risen to 900(!). We never let that temp rise above 500 or so. She closed the air control completely, the temp started to fall and settled to normal. My concern is, per Randy’s comments, that I damaged the cat. Is it possible for the flue temp to rise so high while the griddle temp remains that much lower? After temps settled down, we did recommend test of the cat (per the manual) by opening and closing the damper and observing the amount of smoke leaving the chimney. Here’s the weird thing:
> 
> ...


with regard to testing your cat.. You will see smoke for a bit untill the cat gets up to temp. The cat will start to kick off at about 600 but that doesn't mean that its fully lit.  Sometimes I will see some smoke untill the cats at 750/800 depending on how much wood is in the stove and what stage its in.. You should hear the cat running when it gets engaged or fully lit. You should here a roar at the back of the stove.  when your cat is at this temp.. you can hear the cat running


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## RandyBoBandy (Feb 10, 2021)

We had the chimney and flue swept by a professional about a month ago and I THINK that in spite of that we had a small (?) fire in the flue/chimney just yesterday. 
-*this brings up a question of wood MC. How are you testing your wood? Igor well was the chimney cleaned?  This seems like an awfully short period of time to go from clean to a chimney fire *

All seemed well with how the stove was performing as described above. I did my usual morning ash clean up and reloading 
*are you cleaning all the ash out of the stove every fire?  Try leaving a couple inches of ash in the firebox *

and went out to do some snow blowing (brutal up here in Andes, NY). I happened to look toward the house and noticed an unusual amount of gray/white smoke coming out the chimney. My wife, who was inside the house called me and said that the griddle temp was reading 450, but the flue temp had risen to 900(!). 
*this is with the damper closed? If so then I would say yes you probably had a small chimney fire or the cat was burning hot  trying to keep up with a load off gassing  a lot.  Hard to tell. I’m currently monitoring my morning burn. I let the cat go up to 1630  with a GT of 500-550 and a flue temp of 800. I still had some smoke coming out of my cap which leads me to think I have some not so great wood in this load. I also have an aging refractory box ,cat  and damper gaso I’m sure some smoke is sneaking around things. *
We never let that temp rise above 500 or so. She closed the air control completely, the temp started to fall and settled to normal. My concern is, per Randy’s comments, that I damaged the cat. Is it possible for the flue temp to rise so high while the griddle temp remains that much lower? 
*I wouldn’t worry about the cat.  Hitting high temps once in awhile shouldn’t hurt anything. It’s the prolonged exposure to extreme temps that kill cats (from my understanding). Yes it’s possible to have high flue temps with low GT temps. Yet another reason for a cat thermo. Seeing is knowing and knowing leads to proper burning habits. *
After temps settled down, we did recommend test of the cat (per the manual) by opening and closing the damper and observing the amount of smoke leaving the chimney. Here’s the weird thing:
The first three times that we opened and closed the damper there was much MORE smoke with the damper closed than with it open; the opposite of what should happen. Afterwards things returned to normal; much less or no smoke with damper closed and more smoke with it open. Is it possible the cat was burning up ash that had fallen in during the possible flue fire. Or, was the smoke from the cat itself? This morning all seems normal. We did the smoke test again and things appeared to be normal; more smoke with damper open.
; less or none with damper closed. Temps are as described in my original post. Obvious concern: could I have damaged the cat either with too high a temp or with ash?
*I don’t believe you damaged your cat. Take it out and inspect it however. Also take you phone and point the camera up the flue through the damper and take a picture *
Lastly (for now ☺). Still a source of some confusion is that the Condar flue probe therm reads that 400-900 is the “Normal” range. Yet, my Imperial griddle top therm reads that 500 and higher is in the “Overfire” range. If I get flue temps up to 600 I am well into the “Overfire” range and, as Randy states, in danger of damaging the cat. Or, are the two temperatures more ”independent“ 
of each other than I thought?
*yes these are independent from each other. What you are reading is normal for each. *
 If the griddle temp is at 450, which is the temp the manual recommends to fire the cat, what would cause the cat’s temp to rise so much; assuming that was what happened? What am I missing?
*strong draw and off gassing can send cat temps soaring while the stove top temp lags. This you will learn to control with experience. Look back into previous years on the VC owners threads for a general running procedure of these stoves. It is different from what the manual states. *
BTW, Re Randy’s question: Yes, I can maintain a little bit, not much, flame in the box with damper closed.
*I’m suspect of the true dryness of your wood. Bring a piece in the house overnight. The next day take it back out and split it again and test the free shot exposed face. This will give you a more accurate reading. *
Thank you all again for the help and patience. Huge help
*can you explain your chimney as well?  How tall, any bends or 90’s, 6” or 8”, how much is inside as opposed to outside, does the cap have a screen?  In closing I’m by far not a professional. I just have 7 years of experience with this stove (2550) and these are all of my experiences mixed with countless hours reading here on this forum. Hope this helps and continue to ask questions. We  will do our best to help. *


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## gthomas785 (Feb 10, 2021)

jlggomez said:


> Thank you all again for your thoughts and suggestions. You guys are great! It is really appreciated as we‘re trying to get a handle on all this after running a stove which came with our house and with some issues. It was in pretty sad shape and I’ve been trying to get it up to speed a bit at a time. New gaskets, new glass and, as I explained above, replacing a non working cat and secondary air probe. As suggested, I will get and install (with your help) a cat probe. A couple of additional questions for now and comments please on something that happened yesterday that is of concern.
> 
> We had the chimney and flue swept by a professional about a month ago and I THINK that in spite of that we had a small (?) fire in the flue/chimney just yesterday. All seemed well with how the stove was performing as described above. I did my usual morning ash clean up and reloading and went out to do some snow blowing (brutal up here in Andes, NY). I happened to look toward the house and noticed an unusual amount of gray/white smoke coming out the chimney. My wife, who was inside the house called me and said that the griddle temp was reading 450, but the flue temp had risen to 900(!). We never let that temp rise above 500 or so. She closed the air control completely, the temp started to fall and settled to normal. My concern is, per Randy’s comments, that I damaged the cat. Is it possible for the flue temp to rise so high while the griddle temp remains that much lower? After temps settled down, we did recommend test of the cat (per the manual) by opening and closing the damper and observing the amount of smoke leaving the chimney. Here’s the weird thing:
> 
> ...


Hello,
Based on your description, and my own experience with VC stoves, I don't think you had a chimney fire. It has happened to me a few times that the flue temperature can suddenly spike up to 800-900 with the air closed and stovetop temperature not over 500. I believe this is due to heavy outgassing of the wood that is being burned off by the cat or possibly even post-cat (sometimes I can see wispy secondary flames through a very small crack next to the flue collar with the damper closed). I usually see cat temperatures of 1100-1200 F while this is happening.

It seems to happen if I left it burning on high for a while before turning it down, and I do think that damp wood can contribute to it being sort of delayed. i.e. the outgassing may not really start until after you've turned down the air and thought the fire was under control, and that's why it is so alarming.

Nevertheless, I have learned that if I just leave the air closed it will calm down after 10-15 minutes.
The few times I've dared to leave the stove during this time to look at the chimney, I think there was some smoke. My theory is that there's just too much smoke that the cat / secondary combustion cannot handle.


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## jlggomez (Feb 10, 2021)

Thank you all once again for the invaluable help.  Great resource this forum!

Randy, in answer to your questions:

I believe the chimney was cleaned adequately,  but I can’t say with certainty that a thorough job was done. 

We are running the stove pretty much 24/7 and temperatures outside have been quite low in upstate NY this year with a couple of subzero days; about 19 as I write.  I don’t clean out the stove every morning, but close.  I do leave a bed of ash, but probably not 2”;  I’ll have to fix that.

I sounds like the mentioned outgassing was the problem. As expected, temps drop right after reloading and I have been opening everything up to get the griddle temperature up to the recommended 450-500 range thinking that this was necessary to re(?)activate the cat. I then close the damper and close the air control lever about half to two thirds of the way to fully closed. Sounds like that is not a good idea and I should just let the temp go back up more slowly? Great to know that the cat is probably ok.

I check MC using an Accumaster XT needle probe tester.  This, after trying and returning two others which were not performing well.  I try to stay close to 10% , but occasionally burn wood in the 15% range.  I figure that this way I am probably staying below the recommended 20% max on the assumption that these are probably not terribly accurate readings. 

Chimney is 25‘ with screen.   Brick with 8” tile lined flue.   No bends except a 90 where the stove’s 5’ of connecting double wall pipe goes into the wall; then, 25‘ all outside.

Thanks very much for any additional comments.

Question, Woodsplitter67  mentions being able to hear the cat working.  Is this normal for all stoves?  I can’t hear it in mine when it is, presumably, working.   Also, I do still get blackening of the doors’ glass.

Best to all.


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## gthomas785 (Feb 10, 2021)

jlggomez said:


> I check MC using an Accumaster XT needle probe tester.  This, after trying and returning two others which were not performing well.  I try to stay close to 10% , but occasionally burn wood in the 15% range.  I figure that this way I am probably staying below the recommended 20% max on the assumption that these are probably not terribly accurate readings.
> 
> Also, I do still get blackening of the doors’ glass.



Are you measuring that moisture on a freshly split face of a room temperature piece of wood? 10% is really low, and the behaviors you described point to a higher moisture content than that.


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## RandyBoBandy (Feb 10, 2021)

jlggomez said:


> Thank you all once again for the invaluable help.  Great resource this forum!
> 
> Randy, in answer to your questions:
> 
> ...


I believe the chimney was cleaned adequately, but I can’t say with certainty that a thorough job was done. 

We are running the stove pretty much 24/7 and temperatures outside have been quite low in upstate NY this year with a couple of subzero days; about 19 as I write. I don’t clean out the stove every morning, but close. I do leave a bed of ash, but probably not 2”; I’ll have to fix that.
*a good ash bed will keep the epa holes in the bottom of the stove from letting in to much air.  It also helps insulate the coals   *
I sounds like the mentioned outgassing was the problem. As expected, temps drop right after reloading and I have been opening everything up to get the griddle temperature up to the recommended 450-500 range thinking that this was necessary to re(?)activate the cat. I then close the damper and close the air control lever about half to two thirds of the way to fully closed. Sounds like that is not a good idea and I should just let the temp go back up more slowly? Great to know that the cat is probably ok.
*on cold starts and reloads don’t pay attention to the GT temps. Once your flue temps hit 500-600 then close the damper. Upon closing damper leave air fully open. This is where monitoring the cat temps starts to be a factor. Once my cat hits somewhere between 700-1000 I start to close my primary in increments.  The faster the cat temps are rising the sooner I start closing my primary. *
I check MC using an Accumaster XT needle probe tester. This, after trying and returning two others which were not performing well. I try to stay close to 10% , but occasionally burn wood in the 15% range. I figure that this way I am probably staying below the recommended 20% max on the assumption that these are probably not terribly accurate readings. 
*I feel there may be some error in your method. I find it hard to believe you are getting actual 10% MC. I’m not calling you liar by any means. It just sounds unlikely. Take a nice sized split preferably with straight grain in the house for 24-48 hours. Once it’s acclimated to room temps take it back out and split it down the center. Jab your prongs into the fresh split face. This will be your MC. Not the ends or an old face. *
Chimney is 25‘ with screen. Brick with 8” tile lined flue. No bends except a 90 where the stove’s 5’ of connecting double wall pipe goes into the wall; then, 25‘ all outside.
*is there a clean out Tee?  Did the sweep take apart you flue pipe and clean out the thimble and any horizontal pipe?  Did he clean out the stove after cleaning the pipe and chimney?  Is the liner insulated? 25’ is plenty long for good draw. I’m curious if there is any insulation around the liner. If not it’s possible the liner is cooling off to much creating creosote. *
Thanks very much for any additional comments.

Question, Woodsplitter67 mentions being able to hear the cat working. Is this normal for all stoves? I can’t hear it in mine when it is, presumably, working. Also, I do still get blackening of the doors’ glass.
*my head would have to be behind the stove and the house silent for me to hear any rumbling sounds coming from my stove.  WS67 is right but it’s not something I think you expect to hear without really looking for it. At least in my experiences. *


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## Woodsplitter67 (Feb 10, 2021)

jlggomez said:


> Thank you all once again for the invaluable help.  Great resource this forum!
> 
> Randy, in answer to your questions:
> 
> ...



Id check the wood on a fresh split side at room temp
What stove are you running..
There was a question in the past from a member regarding the noise they hear while the cats engaged. Corie from VC  responded  and said that it is normal to hear and is a good thing. I hear in in my stove when the cat is fully going.. not at 600 degrees.. others have reported hearing it also..


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## Diabel (Feb 10, 2021)

jlggomez said:


> Question, Woodsplitter67  mentions being able to hear the cat working.  Is this normal for all stoves?  I can’t hear it in mine when it is, presumably, working.   Also, I do still get blackening of the doors’ glass.
> 
> Best to all.


I do not hear anything from mine.


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## jlggomez (Feb 10, 2021)

I buy from a local vendor; a cord at a time.  His wood is claimed to be “seasoned” for at least one year.  That wood measures anywhere from 19-25%.  Then it sits covered in one of my racks for probably another two-three months.  I bring some inside and after three days of sitting stacked fairly close to my stove (24/7)  it measures anywhere from 9-17%.   I don’t burn any that doesn’t stay below about 16 or so and shoot for closer to 10%.  I start my fires with “the good stuff”; a dwindling supply bought last summer of 2yr+ seasoned (claimed) which, after being inside for three days, sometimes won’t register on the meter due to its 6% lower limit.  I measure putting the needles into the split grain sides. 

I’m pretty new to all this, so I’m all “ears”.

Thank you!


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## Woodsplitter67 (Feb 10, 2021)

Diabel said:


> I do not hear anything from my stove
> 
> I see your running the 2550. I have the 2040.. there may be some difference.. I definitely hear the cat running in mine and have heard it since I can remember..


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## jlggomez (Feb 10, 2021)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> what stove are u running


My stove is a VC Defiant Encore 2190.

Yes, the sweep cleaned the vertical and horizontal connecting pipes.  I saw them after cleaning and they were quite clean.   As far as liner insulation, I’m afraid I don’t know how to answer that.  The flue is lined with tiles which were visible through the hole after the horizontal connecting pipe was removed.  I assume insulation goes between the tile and the brick?  I just don’t know.

re wood: I suspected higher MC as well, but what I describe is what I’m seeing; would explain the blackening of glass. Perhaps I’m not going deep enough into the grain when testing.  Good tip, Randy about splitting a log to test.  Makes sense.; I get it,  The reading I may be getting does not reflect what’s deeper inside the wood.  I’ll try your method of testing and report back.  

Thank you all again!


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## Woodsplitter67 (Feb 10, 2021)

jlggomez said:


> My stove is a VC Defiant Encore 2190.
> 
> Yes, the sweep cleaned the vertical and horizontal connecting pipes.  I saw them after cleaning and they were quite clean.   As far as liner insulation, I’m afraid I don’t know how to answer that.  The flue is lined with tiles which were visible through the hole after the horizontal connecting pipe was removed.  I assume insulation goes between the tile and the brick?  I just don’t know.
> 
> ...



 So if your not testing on the fresh split face your wood is probably alot wetter than you think.
Just a heads up.. I dont know anyone who purchased wood that has gotten truly seasoned firewood..  Most wood sits out in piles and gets rained on and the inside of the pile never sees the light of day..


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## gthomas785 (Feb 10, 2021)

jlggomez said:


> My stove is a VC Defiant Encore 2190.
> 
> Yes, the sweep cleaned the vertical and horizontal connecting pipes.  I saw them after cleaning and they were quite clean.   As far as liner insulation, I’m afraid I don’t know how to answer that.  The flue is lined with tiles which were visible through the hole after the horizontal connecting pipe was removed.  I assume insulation goes between the tile and the brick?  I just don’t know.
> 
> ...


You have to split the wood immediately before testing.


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## Diabel (Feb 10, 2021)

We have all been there, started with unseasoned wood supply. It is not fun and very frustrating. Eventually, you will burn seasoned wood. It needs to be out drying (cut/split/stacked) for at least 2 years.


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## RandyBoBandy (Feb 10, 2021)

jlggomez said:


> My stove is a VC Defiant Encore 2190.
> 
> Yes, the sweep cleaned the vertical and horizontal connecting pipes.  I saw them after cleaning and they were quite clean.   As far as liner insulation, I’m afraid I don’t know how to answer that.  The flue is lined with tiles which were visible through the hole after the horizontal connecting pipe was removed.  I assume insulation goes between the tile and the brick?  I just don’t know.
> 
> ...


So is the horizontal flue pipe just dumping into the clay liner or is there a round flex liner in the clay tile liner running up to the cap?


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## jlggomez (Feb 10, 2021)

Like I said before, you guys are great and you know your stuff.   So, I split a couple of pieces that I had brought inside yesterday.  Like I said before, these would read somewhere around 15-17%  and I expected them to read somewhere between 10-15 after being inside three days or so.  I tested them again.   Sure enough, 15.6%.   Took them outside, split them and tested the fresh split.   S#$t !!  25.2%.  Obviously, not good.   I split a piece of “the good stuff”. Better, but still 21% in the middle.  This is wood that the vendor keeps inside a very large shed.  I can only imagine what the stuff that is kept outside is like.  Would keeping wood like this for a year covered in a rack outside bring MC down to an acceptable level?

Thanks again to all.  I appreciate any further comments.


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## jlggomez (Feb 10, 2021)

Diabel, just saw your post.  Two years it is then.  Thanks.

Randy, no flex liner.  It is something we are considering putting in.  Also have our eyes on the new Defiant flex burn.  Pricy and waiting to see if I can get this old Defiant working properly.


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## Diabel (Feb 10, 2021)

If you are handy (i am a bit), I would wait some before dropping  some serious coin on the new defiant. Concentrate on your wood supply and if you have time read this thread, especially regarding operations and rebuilds. Once summer comes replace all the visible gaskets and bypass gasket. Examine the cat and refractory box, replace them if needed (expensive). If you have to buy wood buy now 2-3 years worth.


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## moresnow (Feb 10, 2021)

jlggomez said:


> Like I said before, you guys are great and you know your stuff.   So, I split a couple of pieces that I had brought inside yesterday.  Like I said before, these would read somewhere around 15-17%  and I expected them to read somewhere between 10-15 after being inside three days or so.  I tested them again.   Sure enough, 15.6%.   Took them outside, split them and tested the fresh split.   S#$t !!  25.2%.  Obviously, not good.   I split a piece of “the good stuff”. Better, but still 21% in the middle.  This is wood that the vendor keeps inside a very large shed.  I can only imagine what the stuff that is kept outside is like.  Would keeping wood like this for a year covered in a rack outside bring MC down to an acceptable level?
> 
> Thanks again to all.  I appreciate any further comments.



Good for you on being willing to listen and learn! This little story should be stickied for all new burners benefit. 

You have received good advice. If you can manage it, purchase/gather your wood now for the future. Rule of thumb is that the denser heavier hardwoods can take 1 to 3 years after being split and stacked to be 20% or less M/C. Softwoods like Pine may season in a year or potentially less. And yes. Pine makes fine safe firewood when seasoned correctly! Good luck.


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## RandyBoBandy (Feb 11, 2021)

moresnow said:


> Good for you on being willing to listen and learn! This little story should be stickied for all new burners benefit.
> 
> You have received good advice. If you can manage it, purchase/gather your wood now for the future. Rule of thumb is that the denser heavier hardwoods can take 1 to 3 years after being split and stacked to be 20% or less M/C. Softwoods like Pine may season in a year or potentially less. And yes. Pine makes fine safe firewood when seasoned correctly! Good luck.


All to often newbies come around insisting that their wood is dry because the guy they bought it from told them so. It’s refreshing to have someone actually listen to “seasoned” advice. No pun intended.


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## RandyBoBandy (Feb 11, 2021)

jlggomez said:


> Diabel, just saw your post.  Two years it is then.  Thanks.
> 
> Randy, no flex liner.  It is something we are considering putting in.  Also have our eyes on the new Defiant flex burn.  Pricy and waiting to see if I can get this old Defiant working properly.


As @Diabel said. Invest your time and money into your wood and current flue situation. It sounds like you have already done some good maintenance on the stove itself so now it’s time to get the fuel and venting correct. No matter what stove you put on your hearth they will all burn the same with wet wood and an uninsulated chimney liner. For what’s it’s worth put some good thought on how you plan on drying your wood. I believe there are three major elements to successfully drying wood in the shortest time possible. Elevate off the ground, good airflow and top covered to keep dry. Any sun exposure is a bonus however not as important as the other three. I was lazy with drying my wood correctly when I got into this and you pay the price for years. What you do now affects what you get in three years.


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## jlggomez (Feb 11, 2021)

A fire inside a metal box in one‘s home is too important/potentially dangerous for ego to be in the mix.  You guys have been a tremendous help and I’m still learning.  My hopefully realistic goal is to eventually cut my own wood  on my rather large property and that could use some thinning out and get my wood supply under control.  Daunting but potentially fun way for someone from the city and looking at retirement in a couple of years to spend his time; good exercise, anyway.  A question Re cat probe if I may.  In a previous response you wrote:

***Most of us VC guys are using the Auber Instruments AT 100 digital thermometer. They only offer a 6” K-type probe so if you are using the rear heat shield you will need to drill a hole in it. Another option is to go to condar’s website and just buy their probe which is only 4” and will fit behind the heat shield.***

I‘m not opposed to drilling into the heat shield, but does your comment mean that with the 4” Condar one does not have to drill into the shield?   Any details would be appreciated.

Thank you all once again!


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## RandyBoBandy (Feb 11, 2021)

jlggomez said:


> A fire inside a metal box in one‘s home is too important/potentially dangerous for ego to be in the mix.  You guys have been a tremendous help and I’m still learning.  My hopefully realistic goal is to eventually cut my own wood  on my rather large property and that could use some thinning out and get my wood supply under control.  Daunting but potentially fun way for someone from the city and looking at retirement in a couple of years to spend his time; good exercise, anyway.  A question Re cat probe if I may.  In a previous response you wrote:
> 
> ***Most of us VC guys are using the Auber Instruments AT 100 digital thermometer. They only offer a 6” K-type probe so if you are using the rear heat shield you will need to drill a hole in it. Another option is to go to condar’s website and just buy their probe which is only 4” and will fit behind the heat shield.***
> 
> ...


Correct. I had a condar digital probe thermo before I bought the AT100 so I already had the K-type probe which is only 4” long and fits behind the heat shield without having to drill holes in it. However if you were just looking for a one stop shop it’s also not a big deal to just drill a quick hole in the shield to run the 6” probe through.  I have noticed condar has a new model digital thermo called the watchman or watchdog. I’m not sure. I haven’t heard anything about it on here so I’m not sure on it’s quality. The At100 is great for the price and will do exactly what you need it to.


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## jlggomez (Feb 12, 2021)

I hope you guys aren’t sick of me yet.  A couple of additional questions about something I’m still not clear about, please.

OK, per your suggestion Randy I’m waiting for flue temp to hit 600 before closing the damper with the primary wide open.  After closing the damper the temp, having been on its way up, will continue to rise to maybe 650 and then will start dropping.  It then settles at around 425-450 with a griddle temp of 500 or so.  I can then close the primary half way and the flue settles at 400 and the griddle remains at 500-550. as long as there is enough fuel in the box.   This method seems to work well and you guys previously mentioned that this was all normal behavior.  My concern and question:

For an overnight burn I will do a full reload and close the primary about 2/3.   In the morning, after about seven+  hours there will still be fuel in the box, big chunks of burning coals.  However, the flue temperature will have settled at 200 or slightly higher with a griddle temp of around 325-350.   Since the cat needs a 600 flue temp to activate, does a flue temp of 200 mean that the cat has stopped working?  Or, is it still working, but at reduced capacity?  If it has stopped working, about what temperature needs to be maintained for continuous operation?  The concern is creosote buildup.

Randy, re the Condar 4” cat probe.  Not sure I understand where “behind the heat shield“ it is attached without having to drill a hole.  I assume you mean the rear heat shield?  The only opening of any kind back there is the vent (?) along the bottom of the secondary air control cover plate.  What am I missing?

Thanks all, once again for your patience and great advice.


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## Diabel (Feb 12, 2021)

Experiment with closing the primary air, a bit less than 2/3 and see in the morning if the chunks are still there or just burnt ash. Also, these chunks no longer produce any creo. after 7h burn.

at the back of your stove maybe 1 1/2” above the secondary air intake you will find a small metal cap   . Slightly bigger that the probe  diam. Once you remove that, you will be able to insert the probe. In this threat you will find instructions on installing/inserting the cat probe.


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## RandyBoBandy (Feb 12, 2021)

OK, per your suggestion Randy I’m waiting for flue temp to hit 600 before closing the damper with the primary wide open.
*500-600 is good. 600 works best for me. Once you install your cat probe you can adjust your procedure. *
After closing the damper the temp, having been on its way up, will continue to rise to maybe 650 and then will start dropping. It then settles at around 425-450 with a griddle temp of 500 or so. I can then close the primary half way and the flue settles at 400 and the griddle remains at 500-550. as long as there is enough fuel in the box. This method seems to work well and you guys previously mentioned that this was all normal behavior.
*yes this is all normal behavior *

For an overnight burn I will do a full reload and close the primary about 2/3. In the morning, after about seven+ hours there will still be fuel in the box, big chunks of burning coals. However, the flue temperature will have settled at 200 or slightly higher with a griddle temp of around 325-350. Since the cat needs a 600 flue temp to activate, does a flue temp of 200 mean that the cat has stopped working?
*the cat is inactive at this point but that is fine. There is nothing for it do anymore because everything is far into the coaling stage. *
Or, is it still working, but at reduced capacity? If it has stopped working, about what temperature needs to be maintained for continuous operation? The concern is creosote buildup.
*everything is fine. No creo this far into a burn. *
Randy, re the Condar 4” cat probe. Not sure I understand where “behind the heat shield“ it is attached without having to drill a hole. I assume you mean the rear heat shield? The only opening of any kind back there is the vent (?) along the bottom of the secondary air control cover plate. What am I missing?
*like diabel stated, there is a silver looking button just above the secondary air. Pop this off with a flathead. Take a drill bit that matches the diameter of the probe. I believe the condar probe is 1/4” with the Auber probe possibly slightly smaller. Just measure with a vaneer  caliper if you have one. BY HAND gently drill a hole through the refractory box being careful not to go through the front of  the refractory box as well. DO NOT USE A DRILL. just a bit.  Insert your probe being mindful to not have it touch the front of the box. This may throw off temp accuracy.  Presto. You are done. I left the secondary cover off mine and used a file clip to hold the wire to the stove so it doesn’t move around much.  Reinstall your rear heat shield and enjoy knowing exactly what’s going on with the cat. This will probably lead to you modifying or completely blocking your secondary like slot of us have done already but that’s a topic for later discussion. First get your cat probe as soon as possible. It is a crucial element in the longevity of your cat. *

Thanks all, once again for your patience and great advice.


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## jlggomez (Feb 12, 2021)

As always, awesome info.  Thank you both; your help continues to be invaluable.

I thought the little cap was a bolt of some kind.  The cat probe is in the mail.  After install, if you don’t mind I will report back.  I would love to hear about “blocking the secondary” and the benefits of that.   Re temps and creosote: got it, that all makes sense.   I feel much more comfortable about it now.  I have been very concerned about this ever since I saw what came out of my chimney after having it swept a few weeks ago. 

Best wishes to all!

BTW, having been driving my wife crazy with all this for days, she wants to send you guys a bottle of wine  )


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## Diabel (Feb 12, 2021)

jlggomez said:


> As always, awesome info.  Thank you both; your help continues to be invaluable.
> 
> I thought the little cap was a bolt of some kind.  The cat probe is in the mail.  After install, if you don’t mind I will report back.  I would love to hear about “blocking the secondary” and the benefits of that.   Re temps and creosote: got it, that all makes sense.   I feel much more comfortable about it now.  I have been very concerned about this ever since I saw what came out of my chimney after having it swept a few weeks ago.
> 
> ...


Address pm’d!


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## Russn77 (Feb 12, 2021)

jlggomez said:


> BTW, having been driving my wife crazy with all this for days, she wants to send you guys a bottle of wine  )



LOL. Same here. We're still stove shopping and with our restricted hearth, its been difficult. I've been doing crazy amounts of research driving the wife crazy. This site has been extremely helpful. One of the stoves we're looking at is the Dauntless. If we end up going with it, the information in this thread is INVALUABLE.


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## jlggomez (Feb 13, 2021)

Russn77 said:


> LOL. Same here. We're still stove shopping and with our restricted hearth, its been difficult. I've been doing crazy amounts of research driving the wife crazy. This site has been extremely helpful. One of the stoves we're looking at is the Dauntless. If we end up going with it, the information in this thread is INVALUABLE.


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## Nateencore (Feb 15, 2021)

I have a VC Encore that is a few years old at this point, I burn appx 3-4 days/wk. I am still trying to figure out efficiency on this stove.
One question I have is whether the catalyst chamber, visible through two slits in the back wall of the fire box, is supposed to glow red. Is this indicative of operation or can the catalyst be properly operating with no color or flame visible in the chamber (assuming the catalyst is up to temp as indicated by the temp dial on the back of the stove). 

the catalyst chamber will glow red holding a nice temp of 500 and putting off good heat. 

Thanks in advance for helping a newbie. VC won’t even return my call/email...they tell me to contact a local dealer (who didn’t even understand my question).


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## Diabel (Feb 15, 2021)

Welcome to the forum.

perhaps mods can move this thread to VC 2020-21 thread. Lots of info there. One of the first questions you will encounter is details of your set up (chimney, thermometers etc).


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## gthomas785 (Feb 16, 2021)

Nateencore said:


> I have a VC Encore that is a few years old at this point, I burn appx 3-4 days/wk. I am still trying to figure out efficiency on this stove.
> One question I have is whether the catalyst chamber, visible through two slits in the back wall of the fire box, is supposed to glow red. Is this indicative of operation or can the catalyst be properly operating with no color or flame visible in the chamber (assuming the catalyst is up to temp as indicated by the temp dial on the back of the stove).
> 
> the catalyst chamber will glow red holding a nice temp of 500 and putting off good heat.
> ...


Yes, that is fairly normal. Although I have never seen it glow at 500, usually closer to 1000-1100 is when I see it start to glow. Is that 500 a cat temp or stovetop temps?

The whole cement piece on the front can glow sometimes if I'm pushing the stove hard.

The cat can also be active without glowing, and the best way to tell is by the cat thermometer and looking at what's coming out of the chimney.


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## Jimmy C (Feb 16, 2021)

Wow, missed a lot on here over the last couple weeks.  Don't want to take away from new people looking for help (been there), but I've noticed something over the past week and wanted to share/ get some opinions.

I've had some problems with over firing on some full loads and I could not figure out why.  I would get the stove closed down at a decent temp and then get a spike 30 mins later that would often go into high 1600's and sometimes even over 1800 (usually I would open bypass if I see this happen).  Anyway, lately some of my wood is not quite fully seasoned so I've been mixing with some well seasoned stuff, which has been working out.  It caused me to start closing down the primary air differently, usually leaving it only 2/3 closed, other wise cat temps would start falling off drastically and I would lose flames in the box.

However, this has caused me to notice something else.  Leaving the primary air at 2/3 usually keeps me between 1250 - 1450.  In the past, if the temp settled at 1300 or so then starts rising after 20 mins, I would start closing down air more. Often ending up with it all the way closed, this usually slowed the rising temp.  But I think this was also causing too much smoke to go though the CAT after a while and actually over firing, having the opposite effect intended.  It feels strange to me to be leaving the air open this much, but I think its the correct way to run the stove.  I was always worried my stove temp would spike but even with it 1/2 open, it never gets above 600.  Usually now I am cruising with cat temp 1250 - 1450 and griddle top around 500.  

Let me know your thoughts....


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## gthomas785 (Feb 16, 2021)

Jimmy C said:


> Wow, missed a lot on here over the last couple weeks.  Don't want to take away from new people looking for help (been there), but I've noticed something over the past week and wanted to share/ get some opinions.
> 
> I've had some problems with over firing on some full loads and I could not figure out why.  I would get the stove closed down at a decent temp and then get a spike 30 mins later that would often go into high 1600's and sometimes even over 1800 (usually I would open bypass if I see this happen).  Anyway, lately some of my wood is not quite fully seasoned so I've been mixing with some well seasoned stuff, which has been working out.  It caused me to start closing down the primary air differently, usually leaving it only 2/3 closed, other wise cat temps would start falling off drastically and I would lose flames in the box.
> 
> ...


That matches with my experience. Closing down the air causes cat temps to spike, and it's worse with damp wood. And I think your assessment that it's caused by excess smoke production is spot on. Leaving the primary open results in cleaner primary burn, so less fuel for the cat.


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## Nateencore (Feb 16, 2021)

gthomas785 said:


> Yes, that is fairly normal. Although I have never seen it glow at 500, usually closer to 1000-1100 is when I see it start to glow. Is that 500 a cat temp or stovetop temps?
> 
> The whole cement piece on the front can glow sometimes if I'm pushing the stove hard.
> 
> The cat can also be active without glowing, and the best way to tell is by the cat thermometer and looking at what's coming out of the chimney.


Thanks very much good to know. The 500 is stovetop temp. I don’t have temps on my cat thermometer, just a “operate catalyst” zone .


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## gthomas785 (Feb 16, 2021)

Nateencore said:


> Thanks very much good to know. The 500 is stovetop temp. I don’t have temps on my cat thermometer, just a “operate catalyst” zone .


Yeah I have that probe too. It's approximate, but at one point I figured out that the operate catalyst range goes from about 500 to 1600 F.


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## Rusty18 (Feb 21, 2021)

Well I feel cheated...
Picked up a soot eater kit from Menards a few weeks ago and have been waiting on the snow to melt so I could get to the chimney.   This is my third winter burning straight pine and there’s not even enough in the stack to get the eater dirty (maybe 1.5 cords, been waiting on it to season)
I did run it in the horizontal pipe from the back of the stove to the adapter box where it 90’s and goes to the clay tile.  And yes the pic has been sent to all the neighbors that keep telling me pine is gonna cause the house to spontaneously explode.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Feb 21, 2021)

Rusty18 said:


> Well I feel cheated...
> Picked up a soot eater kit from Menards a few weeks ago and have been waiting on the snow to melt so I could get to the chimney.   This is my third winter burning straight pine and there’s not even enough in the stack to get the eater dirty (maybe 1.5 cords, been waiting on it to season)
> I did run it in the horizontal pipe from the back of the stove to the adapter box where it 90’s and goes to the clay tile.  And yes the pic has been sent to all the neighbors that keep telling me pine is gonna cause the house to spontaneously explode.
> View attachment 275066



yes.. the rumors are so true.. these VC stoves burn so dirty...lol


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## Dobish (Mar 5, 2021)

i have had very few fires this year. due to our stair remodel project that is taking longer than expected, we moved out for a few months. i don't even think I will get through more than a cord this year, especially since I have a very large pile of 2x4 that i now have to burn


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## Woodsplitter67 (Mar 5, 2021)

Dobish said:


> i have had very few fires this year. due to our stair remodel project that is taking longer than expected, we moved out for a few months. i don't even think I will get through more than a cord this year, especially since I have a very large pile of 2x4 that i now have to burn



I will burn about the same as.last year. I have already processed what I have burned so far. I am definitely will be burning less. I'm down to one fire a day instead of all.day. I have already skipped some days and haven't burned at all. The forecast for next week is looking a bit warmer so I dont see myself burning every day next week neither.


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## RandyBoBandy (Mar 5, 2021)

Dobish said:


> i have had very few fires this year. due to our stair remodel project that is taking longer than expected, we moved out for a few months. i don't even think I will get through more than a cord this year, especially since I have a very large pile of 2x4 that i now have to burn


Was wondering where you ran off to. Was starting think everyone was leaving. @Ashful has been radio silent as well and he is usually a pretty active participant of this forum. It’s got to be painful not being able to burn the stove all winter.


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## RandyBoBandy (Mar 5, 2021)

Nateencore said:


> I have a VC Encore that is a few years old at this point, I burn appx 3-4 days/wk. I am still trying to figure out efficiency on this stove.
> One question I have is whether the catalyst chamber, visible through two slits in the back wall of the fire box, is supposed to glow red. Is this indicative of operation or can the catalyst be properly operating with no color or flame visible in the chamber (assuming the catalyst is up to temp as indicated by the temp dial on the back of the stove).
> 
> the catalyst chamber will glow red holding a nice temp of 500 and putting off good heat.
> ...


A glowing cat is normal. Just keep the cat probe in the active zone and you will be fine. How long are your typical burn times?


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## RandyBoBandy (Mar 5, 2021)

Jimmy C said:


> Wow, missed a lot on here over the last couple weeks.  Don't want to take away from new people looking for help (been there), but I've noticed something over the past week and wanted to share/ get some opinions.
> 
> I've had some problems with over firing on some full loads and I could not figure out why.  I would get the stove closed down at a decent temp and then get a spike 30 mins later that would often go into high 1600's and sometimes even over 1800 (usually I would open bypass if I see this happen).  Anyway, lately some of my wood is not quite fully seasoned so I've been mixing with some well seasoned stuff, which has been working out.  It caused me to start closing down the primary air differently, usually leaving it only 2/3 closed, other wise cat temps would start falling off drastically and I would lose flames in the box.
> 
> ...


This is probably due to your higher MC wood. By cutting the primary to much the firebox doesn’t have enough air to keep the wood burning. So it smolders and smokes and makes the cat do all the work. Which in turn sends the cat temps skyward. Try baking the load a little longer with the bypass open. Watch your flue temps though, don’t overfire your chimney. Once you have closed the primary again try and bake it a little longer with the primary all the way open. Once the cat hits about 1400-1450 start closing your primary incrementally in small bites. You need the stove top above 500 as well so you can get some secondary action in the firebox as well. How full are you loading the stove?


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## High_flyer (Mar 5, 2021)

I have a 3 year old 1975 defiant 2in1, that I bought new from a dealer. Beautiful stove, but I am pretty disappointed with the amount of heat that it puts out. I get the idea that the stove is starving for more air.

My main thing is though, it absolutely eats up CAT’s. The factory one didn’t do much to begin with, I got some from another supplier that seem to work OK, but after a single month of operation it already looks broken. It’ll still work, but at this rate it will only last a single 3 month burning season.

this can’t be normal, the dealer says it is, but in my opinion just not acceptable. And we are barely getting it into the “operate catalyst“ range.( yep..stock probe)

how often do you check the catalyst and when do you feel like replacing it? I actually heard it snap within a minute of closing the bypass the first burn, and this time I made very sure not to be going hot to get it going right away.


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## Dobish (Mar 5, 2021)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Was wondering where you ran off to. Was starting think everyone was leaving. @Ashful has been radio silent as well and he is usually a pretty active participant of this forum. It’s got to be painful not being able to burn the stove all winter.


Yep... just got drywall yesterday. Hopefully soon i get to be back in action.


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## gthomas785 (Mar 5, 2021)

High_flyer said:


> I have a 3 year old 1975 defiant 2in1, that I bought new from a dealer. Beautiful stove, but I am pretty disappointed with the amount of heat that it puts out. I get the idea that the stove is starving for more air.
> 
> My main thing is though, it absolutely eats up CAT’s. The factory one didn’t do much to begin with, I got some from another supplier that seem to work OK, but after a single month of operation it already looks broken. It’ll still work, but at this rate it will only last a single 3 month burning season.
> 
> ...


Main reason for the cat to crumble like that is due to thermal shock. It happens if you have the cat operating then load a bunch of cold/wet wood and slam the damper shut before it's heated up. Or if you open the door without opening the bypass.


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## Diabel (Mar 5, 2021)

gthomas785 said:


> Main reason for the cat to crumble like that is due to thermal shock. It happens if you have the cat operating then load a bunch of cold/wet wood and slam the damper shut before it's heated up. Or if you open the door without opening the bypass.


Agreed 100%. ^^^^^.  In addition if you over fire the stove , the cat will crumble like in the picture. Please describe your daily burning routine and maybe we can help. That cat should last 2/3 seasons if you are burning full time Oct to May.


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## Diabel (Mar 5, 2021)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Was wondering where you ran off to. Was starting think everyone was leaving. @Ashful has been radio silent as well and he is usually a pretty active participant of this forum. It’s got to be painful not being able to burn the stove all winter.


I did not notice @Dobish was mia. We all tend to come and go from here. I have not lit neither of my stoves since latter part of Jan. Yet, I still check here regularly...especially in the “gear” forum. This place is addictive.....as addictive as some of the car forums.


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## High_flyer (Mar 6, 2021)

I was wondering if thermal shock might have been the issue, but I made sure with this last one to get is started really slow. I had a nice and slow fire going in bypass mode and let it slowly creep up to the upper range of the flue therm. 
after it went back down to the bottom range again (at least a good 4hrs cycle) I closed the bypass off about halfway for half an hour ( it has a sweet spot there where it will hang up a bit) before I closed it completely with the temp just falling below the operating range of the flue therm.

that’s when I heard the distinctive snap that I felt was the catalyst break.

I love the look of this stove! But If I have to figure in to each season replace the catalyst on top of the high purchase price it is becoming a pretty expensive hobby. And much too complicated for the mrs. to operate  decently.


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## High_flyer (Mar 6, 2021)

Burn routine : I’m here in Arkansas, we have a burning season from beginning of dec through beginning of march. From Christmas through Valentines day it might be running constantly. I have the 1975 Defiant 2in1 with the stock catalyst thermometer and 8” single wall stove pipe (with a magnetic flue thermometer) up to the 8’ ceiling thereafter it runs into double wall insulated chimney pipe. Only about 3ft higher than the recommended chimney height, no elbows and never had a draft issue.

in the morning there is a decent bed of embers, scraping it up a little bit to expose the glowing ones we fill it with some smaller pieces to let it catch back on. Most of the time I will then clean out the bottom ash tray which will be about halfway filled, with still quite some ash left in the burn chamber. After the fire picks up we fill in with some larger logs, Oak splits that are about the width of the burn chamber. I do not have a moisture meter but have been burning my whole life and this is good and dry ( in a covered woodshed for at least 3 years).

after burning it in bypass mode it will get up to the upper 3rd of the flue therm. for about 90mins (time to take the kids to school) and turning it to CAT mode. After about 10mins closing the air about 1/4th. And keep it like this for a few hours. When refill is needed, and the flue temp will fall to right below operating temp, open up air, bypass open and fill the fire chamber about 3/4ths. After the flue temp gets once again to the upper edge and we have decent flames/glow going we turn the cat on again. This is basically what we keep on doing.
looking at the cat therm, with the flue at the top end for at leat 2 hrs, the needle is just barely in the “operate cat” silver area. Stove feels hot, but not excessive.

in my view this stove could also really use a bit more air, the primary air valve works, I can see clearly a difference with moving the lever especially in bypass mode. But I can only open the top lid to refill a single piece at a time, if I leave it open to get another log to put in second it already is an inferno in there where there are almost too much flames to lower the second log with a welding glove on.
I seem to be getting a bit more consistent and longer burn if I mix in some greenish wood that is about a year seasoned or pieces that have been cut 2 years ago but freshly split.

I have been thinking about putting in the elec cat thermometer but I am not fond of the bright electronic display.
this stove was bought new from a dealer 3 years ago and we have it going for our second burn season now.


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## RandyBoBandy (Mar 6, 2021)

This is interesting. I think I’m on my third season with the same cat. I don’t know anything about the 2in1 so I can’t speculate on its design. I would still invest in a moisture meter however. What does your glass look like?  Black or does it stay clean?


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## gthomas785 (Mar 7, 2021)

Hm, my only comment is that 90 mins with the bypass open after reloading seems like a really long time! Is there any wood left after that? Haha anyway I don't think that should cause thermal shock. Maybe, if the flue temperature is really in the upper third of the operating range (around 800F?) then it could cause the cat to heat up too fast. But the more common cause of thermal shock is from cooling it down too rapidly.

For what it's worth, I usually close my bypass damper as soon as the flue temperature hits 500-600 degrees.


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## High_flyer (Mar 7, 2021)

If I close the air to half or less for the overnight burn the windows will be pitch black by morning time. It burns them clean again easily enough, and the stove would have cooled off far enough by then too that a quick wipe gets them clear.
the chimney stays pretty clear though, only issue that I’ve had with that is the cap-screen clogging up but that’s probably just the weakest link in the chimney system with it cooling off too easy.


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## Diabel (Mar 7, 2021)

High_flyer said:


> If I close the air to half or less for the overnight burn the windows will be pitch black by morning time. It burns them clean again easily enough, and the stove would have cooled off far enough by then too that a quick wipe gets them clear.
> the chimney stays pretty clear though, only issue that I’ve had with that is the cap-screen clogging up but that’s probably just the weakest link in the chimney system with it cooling off too easy.


It is difficult to say what is going on with your system. 90min in bypass mode is definitely not right. With dry wood you should be closing the bypass in 15min on average. Replacing cats every three months does not sound correct. A cat should last about 3 seasons under 24/7 operation. Normal operation that is. Black glass when 1/2 closed and dirty cap screen also does not sound correct. Perhaps it is time to invest in a moisture meter.


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## RandyBoBandy (Mar 7, 2021)

What diabel said. I pretty much close my primary all the way for over night burns and my glass is never black. Only when I load it with questionable wood. What stove are you coming from?  Older “smoke dragons” are a lot more forgiving when it comes to wet wood. Anything measuring over 20% moisture content is going to be frustrating to burn in any modern stove.  Oak is a tricky one to get below 20%. Even though it’s been CSS. I’ve had white oak css for 3 years in a covered car port still hiss and piss when put in the stove.  It’s time for a moisture meter my friend.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Mar 7, 2021)

Diabel said:


> It is difficult to say what is going on with your system. 90min in bypass mode is definitely not right. With dry wood you should be closing the bypass in 15min on average. Replacing cats every three months does not sound correct. A cat should last about 3 seasons under 24/7 operation. Normal operation that is. Black glass when 1/2 closed and dirty cap screen also does not sound correct. Perhaps it is time to invest in a moisture meter.



I agree with what your saying. Air half way glass should be clean. 90 minutes of free burn in my stove and it would be glowing and warped for sure.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Mar 7, 2021)

I'm thinking wet wood on this one and the cat is getting thermal shock when the damper is closed after 90 minutes, maybe also that once the wood cooks off the cat temp is to high. 1600+  degrees on a cat a couple of times and it will crumble for sure.  Iv cooked my cat to death a couple times with the bimetal cat probe because.. who really knew it was getting that hot..back then.. it looked good to me..lol


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## jlggomez (Mar 8, 2021)

Hey again guys,

Well, it has been a few weeks of excellent and consistent burning thanks to your valuable help.   Managed to find better seasoned wood to get us through the rest of the season and the new catalyst is working great.  New issue, however:

Last night after loading my Defiant Encore #2190 for the all night burn, as I’m laying there in bed I hear a CLUNK downstairs.  I go check things out and I noticed that the damper handle is in the open position.  I had noticed the same thing one morning previously and thought that maybe somehow we had forgotten to close it.   Luckily, the primary is always closed 2/3 for the night burn.

The damper handle has never “locked” into place and the most that it can be turned to the rear, even with pretty good force, is to about the 8:00 o’clock position, maybe 7:30.  It has always been that way with this stove and while turning the handle there has always been a healthy, but smooth amount of resistance until the point at which the handle stops, so I always thought that things were working as they should.  What I had not noticed previously and so don’t know if it has always been this way or not,  is that once the damper is closed (handle at 7:30-8) and staying closed,  even very light downward pressure on the handle will cause the damper to swing open again.  Some research here tells me that the handle should move to the 9:00 position.  I have also found some conflicting comments about there being a distinct locking sound  “click” when the handle reaches the 9:00 position.

Should there be a “lock” at the end of the movement of the handle and what is the best way to diagnose the problem?  I have also read some conflicting (to me) comments as to whether I need to remove the Left side plate or the flue collar to view and access the mechanism.  The manual doesn’t address this issue.  Any information and pointers about what to do to correct this problem would be greatly appreciated, as always.

Best to all.


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## gthomas785 (Mar 8, 2021)

Maybe someone else with a 2190 will chime in, but my 2040 is the opposite. The handle is on the left side of the stove. 8:00 or "back" corresponds to the open/bypass mode, and 4:00 or "forward" is closed/cat mode. I get a locking click when I pull the handle forward, but not back. Yes there should be some kind of cam action that holds the damper closed after you close it.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Mar 16, 2021)

Hows every one making out.. getting near the end of the season. didnt burn at all last week. and I'm having a once a day fire now.


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## gthomas785 (Mar 16, 2021)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> Hows every one making out.. getting near the end of the season. didnt burn at all last week. and I'm having a once a day fire now.


Got down to 12 the last two nights so I've been burning steadily but it looks like it'll warm up later this week. Started in on my last stack of hardwood for this year.


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## jlggomez (Mar 16, 2021)

Spring is definitely in the air up here.   But still getting overnight temps in the teens and occasionally the single digits.  Then, up to the low 50’s and sunny in the afternoon.  I’ve been doing an overnight burn and feeding a little again in the morning.   With the sun steaming in in the afternoons, that’s enough to keep the house in the low 70’s until the evening.   

Still hoping to get some thoughts on the damper issue above.

Best to all.


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## Diabel (Mar 16, 2021)

Have not had a fire in neither of the stoves since more less mid Jan.

as for the damper opening on its own. My buddy has a vc encore 2190 I believe (the one that came out before the 2550). That stove would do the same once in a while. We adjusted a screw that is at the back of the damper (you can reach it vis the flue only). It helped. Eventually, he ended up replacing the damper assembly.


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## newguyjoe (Mar 16, 2021)

I have a new VC Dauntless and the same thing is happening to my stove damper handle. i had them come and "Fix" it but it sill happens occasionally. it doesnt actually open the damper but the hadle clunks loose.the nut in the middle of the damper is what you need to mess with to get it right.


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## newguyjoe (Mar 16, 2021)

jlggomez said:


> Hey again guys,
> 
> Well, it has been a few weeks of excellent and consistent burning thanks to your valuable help.   Managed to find better seasoned wood to get us through the rest of the season and the new catalyst is working great.  New issue, however:
> 
> ...


The repiar guy did have to remove the flue to get to the damper.


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## jlggomez (Mar 16, 2021)

Thanks a lot, guys.   Another Spring project.   I replaced all gaskets two years ago except the damper gasket. When I remove the flue collar, will I be able to get to the gasket as well?  Thanks!


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## RandyBoBandy (Mar 16, 2021)

Diabel said:


> Have not had a fire in neither of the stoves since more less mid Jan.
> 
> as for the damper opening on its own. My buddy has a vc encore 2190 I believe (the one that came out before the 2550). That stove would do the same once in a while. We adjusted a screw that is at the back of the damper (you can reach it vis the flue only). It helped. Eventually, he ended up replacing the damper assembly.


No fire since mid January? Someone steal all your firewood?


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## NewGuy132 (Mar 23, 2021)

Last week I went to one of the local stove stores and bought an Intrepid Felxburn in the brown enamel.  I wanted the dauntless, but the opening of my fireplace is too short.  The Intrepid should help out with the outrageous oil bills next year.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Mar 23, 2021)

NewGuy132 said:


> Last week I went to one of the local stove stores and bought an Intrepid Felxburn in the brown enamel.  I wanted the dauntless, but the opening of my fireplace is too short.  The Intrepid should help out with the outrageous oil bills next year.


 
do you have a stove that your using now..


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## NewGuy132 (Mar 23, 2021)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> do you have a stove that your using now..


No this will be a first for me. The previous owner of the house had a Jotul Series 3 that he took when he moved. The chimney is lined and the installer is coming out Friday to inspect everything.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Mar 23, 2021)

NewGuy132 said:


> No this will be a first for me. The previous owner of the house had a Jotul Series 3 that he took when he moved. The chimney is lined and the installer is coming out Friday to inspect everything.



I suggest you get your wood supply  now.. dont wait


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## NewGuy132 (Mar 23, 2021)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> I suggest you get your wood supply  now.. dont wait


Yea 100% I have a truckload of log length firewood ordered. I’ll probably also buy a cord or two of split season wood. It all depends.


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## jlggomez (Mar 23, 2021)

Congrats on your new stove.  As a newbie myself, I can’t say enough good things about the advice that I have gotten here.  Heed Woodsplitter’s advice and get your wood supply now.  In my case, many of the problems that I was having were due to wood that was not seasoned properly. 

Coincidentally, as I was reading your post my wife and I were trying to figure out how much we saved this last Winter by heating exclusively with wood.  We have electric base board heaters in our upstate NY “Summer” house and we have been living up here full time for the last 12 months.  Kind of hard to figure out and electric is obviously different than oil, but being VERY CONSERVATIVE and accounting for the cost of wood, I can safely say that we saved at least $2,000 this past Winter.  A bit of my own advise:  seal up leaky/drafty windows and doors.  This made a tremendous difference for us; especially on the days when temps were in the single digits and lower.   Enjoy your new stove!


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## Woodsplitter67 (Mar 23, 2021)

I'd buy a bunch of wood already split and use some of that, and get that wood now. The log lenth will not be ready for the fall unless you make a solar kiln.. for information on it look in my signature. If you purchase split wood its not fully seasoned so if you get it now check it with your moisture meter and if its not terribly high it may be ready for fall


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## jlggomez (Apr 1, 2021)

You guys have been so helpful, thought I would ask for your opinions on a different but related subject.  Chainsaws.

So, I would like to start cutting and splitting my own firewood this year.   I have thirty acres up here in upstate NY with a lot of ash and maple trees.  There’s a lot on the ground and don’t know how much of that is usable and I would fell only medium size trees.....for now.   I want to start education myself on all this.  I’ve been using a little 16” Poulan (POS) for the last two years for light property maintenance.  I want something beefier,  but not too much more.  I am a professional musician and need to be careful that my hands don’t get overly stressed,  so weight is an issue.  The 15lb Poulan was easy to handle weight wise for extended periods and I can handle a little more easily.  The Poulan seems to transfer a lot of vibration to the handles and I understand that some are better than others in that regard.   Any thoughts/recommendations on any of the above would be very appreciated.  Yes, I have chaps and my wife will make sure I wear them 

Best to all.


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## Diabel (Apr 1, 2021)

It all depends on your budget. Stihl ms262 will be like music to your ears.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Apr 1, 2021)

jlggomez said:


> You guys have been so helpful, thought I would ask for your opinions on a different but related subject.  Chainsaws.
> 
> So, I would like to start cutting and splitting my own firewood this year.   I have thirty acres up here in upstate NY with a lot of ash and maple trees.  There’s a lot on the ground and don’t know how much of that is usable and I would fell only medium size trees.....for now.   I want to start education myself on all this.  I’ve been using a little 16” Poulan (POS) for the last two years for light property maintenance.  I want something beefier,  but not too much more.  I am a professional musician and need to be careful that my hands don’t get overly stressed,  so weight is an issue.  The 15lb Poulan was easy to handle weight wise for extended periods and I can handle a little more easily.  The Poulan seems to transfer a lot of vibration to the handles and I understand that some are better than others in that regard.   Any thoughts/recommendations on any of the above would be very appreciated.  Yes, I have chaps and my wife will make sure I wear them
> 
> Best to all.



Husqvarna  550xp  It's a 50cc saw.. at 10lbs and will cut anything. comes with an 18 and you can put a 20in on it. It's a pro saw with all of the benefits... easy to work on and less vibration.. its a 600 dollar saw.. well worth the money...


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## jlggomez (Apr 2, 2021)

Thanks a lot for the recommendations, I will check them out.  Any rules of thumb Re trees/limbs already on the ground?  I think I can recognize rotted wood or wood that is too old.  Besides that, anything I should look look for so as not to waste time and energy with bad wood?  Or, should I just not bother at all with limbs on the ground?

Best.


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## begreen (Apr 2, 2021)

NewGuy132 said:


> Yea 100% I have a truckload of log length firewood ordered. I’ll probably also buy a cord or two of split season wood. It all depends.


Buy the split seasoned wood now and get it stacked under top cover, because there is a 90% chance it is not fully seasoned.


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## NewGuy132 (Apr 2, 2021)

begreen said:


> Buy the split seasoned wood now and get it stacked under top cover, because there is a 90% chance it is not fully seasoned.


Actually ordered 2 cords last week.  They won't deliver until closer to fall.  I am going to pick up a moisture meter so I can spot check a few logs after they are dropped off.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Apr 2, 2021)

NewGuy132 said:


> Actually ordered 2 cords last week.  They won't deliver until closer to fall.  I am going to pick up a moisture meter so I can spot check a few logs after they are dropped off.



Just a heads up.. if you wait till fall that will be to late and you'll be stuck with wet wood....DONT wait it's a big mistake..


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## Woodsplitter67 (Apr 2, 2021)

jlggomez said:


> Thanks a lot for the recommendations, I will check them out.  Any rules of thumb Re trees/limbs already on the ground?  I think I can recognize rotted wood or wood that is too old.  Besides that, anything I should look look for so as not to waste time and energy with bad wood?  Or, should I just not bother at all with limbs on the ground?
> 
> Best.



I'd take stuff on the ground as long as it's not punky.. if your not sure I'd cut into the wood to see if it's bad. I take.stuff that's filled and on the ground all the time.


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## gthomas785 (Apr 2, 2021)

NewGuy132 said:


> Actually ordered 2 cords last week.  They won't deliver until closer to fall.  I am going to pick up a moisture meter so I can spot check a few logs after they are dropped off.


Call around and find someone who will deliver wood now. If you wait you will regret it


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## Humberwho (Apr 12, 2021)

Newbie to the forum here.   Wanted to chime in on chainsaws.   I have an Echo cs590 timberwolf with a 20 inch bar.   Very powerful and easy to use, nice price as well for the size.  
         We are in the process of putting in our hearth for our Encore.   2040   catalytic.   I worked at  a woodstove store back in the last century selling  Quadrafires and Blaze King  among others.    The BKs were mostly catalytic so am pretty familiar but every stove is different so appreciate the information folks have posted on the forum.   Hopefully will have some pics posted at some point of the install.


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## Diabel (Apr 12, 2021)

Welcome to the site


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## Woodsplitter67 (Apr 12, 2021)

welcome.. I have the 2040.. great stove.. has put out a ton of heat over the years


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## Dobish (Apr 13, 2021)

it feels good to be back in the house with the stove going. I have been burning scrap lumber for the past few days so I still have about 1.5 cord of elm and boxelder that will most likely wait until next season! That also means that I am on wood gathering hiatus for another year or two (we still have about 10 cord CSS). 

We moved a staircase and put some insulation in a previously uninsulated room, so we don't get as much heat transfer to the upstairs, which is ok by me. It hasn't been cold enough to really get the stove cranking, just smaller fires at night to take the chill off. I am hoping with the added insulation, we can get a bit more heat downstairs. 

My wife was not happy about the pile of scrap wood piled in front of the house, so thanks to the handy ikea bags, they are easy to bring inside!


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## Woodsplitter67 (Apr 13, 2021)

Dobish said:


> it feels good to be back in the house with the stove going. I have been burning scrap lumber for the past few days so I still have about 1.5 cord of elm and boxelder that will most likely wait until next season! That also means that I am on wood gathering hiatus for another year or two (we still have about 10 cord CSS).
> 
> We moved a staircase and put some insulation in a previously uninsulated room, so we don't get as much heat transfer to the upstairs, which is ok by me. It hasn't been cold enough to really get the stove cranking, just smaller fires at night to take the chill off. I am hoping with the added insulation, we can get a bit more heat downstairs.
> 
> My wife was not happy about the pile of scrap wood piled in front of the house, so thanks to the handy ikea bags, they are easy to bring inside!



I had a small fire last night and again this morning.. I really enjoy sitting there relaxing by the stove.. its going to be a long 5 month waiting to burn again..I may have a small fire here and there still..


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## PatrickWR (Apr 14, 2021)

Hi folks. Just jumping in to introduce myself. I am the proud owner of a new VC Dauntless, a nice sized stove for us here in western Oregon, which has mild winters in general. We were able to make a half dozen fires in March & April before the weather got too warm, but it sure was nice to sit by the stove and relax after a long day. My wife loves the style & finish of the Dauntless, which was a big selling point for her. I'm sorting out my wood supply ... thankfully I'm hooked up with a firewood club here in town that co-owns a bunch of tools and equipment and organizes splitting runs to keep everyone well stocked. 

I appreciate all the insight and knowledge on this forum!


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## Diabel (Apr 14, 2021)

Welcome to the forum. Dry wood is the most important part of the wood burning process


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## Humberwho (Apr 26, 2021)

Encore before and after pics of the stove installation.


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## begreen (Apr 26, 2021)

Nicely done. Have you had any fires in it yet?


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## Humberwho (Apr 26, 2021)

Curing the paint as we type.


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## begreen (Apr 26, 2021)

Humberwho said:


> Curing the paint as we type.


You may not have much need for it soon, but I would really like to know how the stove works out for you. When you get a chance can you post a review in a separate thread? 

PS: The Dauntless engineering was done by our own Corie!


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## begreen (Apr 27, 2021)

PatrickWR said:


> Hi folks. Just jumping in to introduce myself. I am the proud owner of a new VC Dauntless, a nice sized stove for us here in western Oregon, which has mild winters in general. We were able to make a half dozen fires in March & April before the weather got too warm, but it sure was nice to sit by the stove and relax after a long day. My wife loves the style & finish of the Dauntless, which was a big selling point for her. I'm sorting out my wood supply ... thankfully I'm hooked up with a firewood club here in town that co-owns a bunch of tools and equipment and organizes splitting runs to keep everyone well stocked.
> 
> I appreciate all the insight and knowledge on this forum!


How has it been burning for you?


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## newguyjoe (Apr 27, 2021)

Glad to hear i'm not the only person to buy the Dauntless this year. how do you like it so far ? For me its been pretty good. I Def did not have the best seasoned wood that i should have, I have been working on it all winter though for next year. it throws a lot of heat when burning well. Sometimes the down draft system is a little bit of a pain to get going good.


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## NewGuy132 (Apr 27, 2021)

newguyjoe said:


> Glad to hear i'm not the only person to buy the Dauntless this year. how do you like it so far ? For me its been pretty good. I Def did not have the best seasoned wood that i should have, I have been working on it all winter though for next year. it throws a lot of heat when burning well. Sometimes the down draft system is a little bit of a pain to get going good.


I really wanted a Dauntless.  Unfortunately my fireplace opening was about 2 inches too short for the chimney to clear.  Unfortunately they don't have a short leg kit for the Dauntless.  Ended up with the Intrepid Flexburn and spent the savings on the enamel finish.


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## PatrickWR (Apr 27, 2021)

I'm liking it real well! It's been about 30 years since I last fussed with a wood stove so there has been a bit of a learning curve adjusting to this one. It's got a nice tall chimney, though, and it's been drafting well from the get-go. It's a great size for our space, and *very* handsome as a rustic decor appliance, which is of course a huge selling point for my spouse.

 My buddy who heats exclusively with wood invited me to fill up my truck from his seasoned wood pile, so my supply is in good shape.  We got in probably 8-10 burns before the weather warmed up here in Western Oregon. Now it's pretty well shut down for the season.


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## Rusty18 (Apr 30, 2021)

So is it normal for the refractory box to be held together with screws? Or has someone patched it back together?
I’m leaning towards it being factory since the cover was cemented in place (I think someone got heavy handed with the caulk gun when it was built!  
Either way everything “under the hood” looks good, better than I was expecting anyways.


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## Diabel (May 1, 2021)

Rusty18 said:


> So is it normal for the refractory box to be held together with screws? Or has someone patched it back together?
> I’m leaning towards it being factory since the cover was cemented in place (I think someone got heavy handed with the caulk gun when it was built!
> Either way everything “under the hood” looks good, better than I was expecting anyways.


Yes for the screws. I found that odd too. Your basic sheetrock screws. The cat in the pic looks good too.


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## Humberwho (May 4, 2021)

Decided to go ahead and cure the paint the rest of the way today since it's somewhat cool out and I can open the house up.   Really like how you can "supercharge" the fire when starting by leaving the right door cracked a bit.   Glass is staying very clean esp considering the stove is catalytic and back  in the old days last century that pretty much guaranteed  caked on sooted up glass.    Next is to start scouring CL for some free firewood!


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## Humberwho (May 16, 2021)

First load of wood  obtained free and only a few miles from home!


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## Rusty18 (Sep 5, 2021)

Is it bad the temp dropped to 65 the other morning and I was considering firing up the stove...it’s all most that time of year!


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## Woodsplitter67 (Sep 6, 2021)

it was in the mid 50s the other morning.. man it felt good.. Its been so hot and humid. cant wait for fallish weather


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## gthomas785 (Sep 6, 2021)

I agree... can't wait to light the stove again. This summer has been gross and I'm ready to be done with it.


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## webfish (Sep 6, 2021)

New thread for season.


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