# Drying wood quickly?  Anyone heard of a Holz Hausen?



## Marcus (Mar 6, 2006)

I found a link about a way to stack wood to dry it in 3 months called a Holz Hausen.  Anyone ever heard of this or know how well it works?

Here's the link: http://www.thechimneysweep.ca/6seasoningwood.html


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## jabush (Mar 6, 2006)

I guess if a person were going to wait until Aug/Sept to get thier wood ready, then this thing might be worth a frantic try in order to dry it faster.  I'd just as soon get my wood cut, split and stacked early.  Plus with that mountain of wood you wouldn't be able to pick and choose what you wanted to burn.  I like to be able to burn some less dense stuff when it's a little warmer out and save the high quality stuff for when it's colder.  You can't do that if your locust/oak/whatever is in the middle of the pile.
Also, I'm with Dylan....I don't see how that configuration creates any kind of "stack" effect to dry the wood.  It seem as though the interior pieces would always be cold and damp.

I would as well like to hear from someone who has utilized the HH to dry wood.


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## wahoowad (Mar 6, 2006)

A regular stack of wood is like a straight (non-circular) holz hausen - and exposing more of the wood to sun and wind. I'm not buying into the holz hausen, although it does look neat.


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## Marcus (Mar 6, 2006)

I agree with all of you.  I would expect wood to dry fastest when the most amount of surface area is exposed to sun and wind.  In the HH very little surface area is exposed to sun and wind.  I also don't see how the "chimney effect" could exist when the wood seems packed tightly and there really does not seem to be much of opening for air to enter or exit.  I guess another reason to suspect it would not work well is I found only 1 or 2 references to the HH on the inetrnet.  If it worked so well many people would likely know about it.


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## Rob From Wisconsin (Mar 6, 2006)

Dylan said:
			
		

> Well, I gave it a read, and I'll agree that the author provides information regarding HOW to construct the HH. BUT, other than a weak mention of the 'chimney effect' at the interior of the pile, he provides ZERO information regarding the PRINCIPLES supporting this method. Frankly, I don't think a 'chimney effect' will be created. My experience is that the INTERIOR of any such pile will be the COLDEST, MOST ANTI-'chimney effect' component of a pile. IF anything, the interior might be slower to cool overnight (and hence draw air into the pile at that time) but the night-time air is usually moist and, as such, moisture would be deposited.
> 
> I'll buy Eric's six percent shrinkage before that author's twenty percent.


Dylan,
You obviously have no knowledge of the "Coriolus Effect",
and how gases "rotate" as the rise up a flue.....
Not to mention "Centrifugal" vs. "Centripital" forces......

"Rob the Brain"


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## NWfuel (Mar 6, 2006)

Hello,
I have been selling cordwood for 29 years now. I had a guy tell me about 20 years ago that the indians dried their wood with this same method. This is the second time Ive heard this. I wish I had paid more attention to him then.
Thomas


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## wahoowad (Mar 6, 2006)

> I wish I had paid more attention to him then.



Go ahead and restack all your wood this way then, Thomas. Your drying time should decrease by 75%! It worked for the indians.


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## Marcus (Mar 6, 2006)

Even if this technique did work-  how many times would it fall over while trying to build it?  It just looks like a pain to make.  Then you have to take the whole thing apart to really make sure the wood on the inside is dry.  Then you have to restack it all.


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## Donna (Mar 6, 2006)

Hi,
While taking an abandoned baby squirel to a refuge not far from our house, I noticed just such a stack of wood in the yard of the woman who runs the place. I believe she is of German or Dutch origin.
I was aware of this method of drying, but had never actually seen one, it was facinating.
The wood looked very aged, however, I have no idea of how long it had been stacked.
Next time I have occasion to go there, I shall bring my camera. It is a sanctuary and is kept behind locked gates.
Cheers,
Donna


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## Eric Johnson (Mar 6, 2006)

As HotFlame found out this past weekend, your best bet is to get one year ahead on your wood supply, to ensure that you're always burning dry wood. People make fun of me for being a "wood hoarder" but I haven't sizzled a chunk all winter. There's really nothing to compare with truly dry firewood, and the best way to get there is with the appropriate application of time.


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## Rick (Mar 6, 2006)

I don't know if this method works (as well as purported) myself, but I have seen similar stacks in Amish areas.  The Amish seem to know their stuff.  As far as air reaching the center wood, I've stacked wood very tightly (as tight as I could) over the years and inevitably the center wood always eventually dries.  That may be a function of my climate.

Rick


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## Eric Johnson (Mar 6, 2006)

I've always thought of the Amish as being nice people trapped in a weird cult.

You've got hard working Amish and goof-off Amish and everyone in between. They use chain saws and hydraulic splitters and pickup trucks like everyone else, by the way.


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## Rick (Mar 6, 2006)

I should've been clearer, I was referring to the shape of the stack, not the time left to season.  Eric, the nice Amish that charged me an exorbitant fee to dine with them didn't have any of those modern contraptions.  But they did have a website  :roll: .

Rick


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## Todd (Mar 7, 2006)

I have seen a few of these around here. Always wondered if they work?

Someone with lots of wood to spare should try this method out and let us know if it works.


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## Martin Strand III (Mar 7, 2006)

Lots of naysayers; not much experience to totally poo poo this HH stacking method.

Remember, the "top down" method of starting a fire is an old method recently rediscovered, and it works.  And the "stack effect" of air movement inside a house was described and most easily evidenced in older leaky constructed houses when "tight" construction wasn't much known.  Plus, saying the HH stack doesn't get as much sun - well, in a standard woodpile stack facing south, only the ends of the splits get direct sun anyway, so how much "less sun" is that?  Adequate air movement may negate this.  So, let's see...

I'll commit 2 of my 6 cords this spring to a 7' diameter HH stack and follow up with this fall when the leaves turn to flame with a critical eyeball on splits from the north and south sides of the HH stack and compare them, with eyeball and a moisture meter, to splits from the standard woodpile stack.  Stay tuned.

Maybe the field mice won't recognize the HH stack as just a woodpile...

Aye,
Marty


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## wahsega (Mar 7, 2006)

Drying wood quickly? Put in a 350 oven with the vent fan on. rotate every half hour. Use moisture meter to check for done. :sick:


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## Marcus (Mar 8, 2006)

You're the man Marty.  Looking forward to your scientific study.  Maybe we can co-author an article for the magazine Modern Wood Burning Techniques.


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## wahoowad (Mar 8, 2006)

> only the ends of the splits get direct sun anyway, so how much “less sun” is that?



A lot. One end of each split in the HH pile is essentially completely blocked from both sun and airflow. The other side of my south-facing stacks still gets tons of ambient light and airflow.

I think the wood will be burnable if it sits in a HH for a whole year, it just will be drier in more conventional, tried-and-true method stacks. Plus, like others pointed out, building that stack seems like a pain in the ass.


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## Martin Strand III (Mar 8, 2006)

So far, it's all conjecture.

You know no more than anyone else.  You have an opinion.

I plan to find out for myself.

Aye,
Marty

Grandma used to say, "Non illegitimi carborundum."


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## berlin (Mar 8, 2006)

It would definately be interesting to see how it worked. My friends in north germany stack wood similar to that without at pole, somewhat of a steep haystack type pile, but i never thought to inquire whether there was any purpose for it. I assumed that my friend was too lazy to stack it properly.


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## Eric Johnson (Mar 8, 2006)

And they would have a point. Plenty of blame to go around.

Welcome back, Frank.


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## adrpga498 (Mar 9, 2006)

I need to split another 2 cords for next season, I already have 2 stacked the conventional manner in long single rows. So......I also will experiment with this HH style. IF nothing else, I think I may flip a few empty beer cans down the center, keep the slugs away. LOL


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## bruce (Mar 9, 2006)

frank is back?


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## Marcus (Mar 10, 2006)

Dylan said:
			
		

> OF COURSE...it was SOOOO obvious, that I didn't even see it. The Holz Hausen is/was a product of a culture obsessed with creating a phallic symbol whenever possible.



Actually it looks more like a pointy breast than a phallic symbol.  But still we are obsessed with breasts as much (probably more) than with phallic symbols.  

By the way, does anyone know German and know what Holz Hausen means?


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## BrotherBart (Mar 10, 2006)

Wood houses.


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## Todd (Mar 12, 2006)

I bet this method is used in Europe for people that have limited space for stacking firewood. If you don't have the room for row after row, one pile would make sense. The piles I have seen around here are all in small yards.

I have limited space, so I think I'll try 3ea 7' piles. I was going to have 6 ea 24' rows, but the HH would take up less space next to my garage. I have 3 cords stacked there have been drying for 6 months, so it should be good to go for next season. The wood I' processing now will have over a year to dry out. I don't buy the 3 month dry time. I'll give it a full year.


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## Todd (Mar 12, 2006)

Here is another link for the wood house. 

www.motherearthnews.com/nature_and_environment/1986_november_december/holzhaufen


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## Todd (Mar 12, 2006)

Just finished building an 8' Holz Hausen. I only got 2.5 cords into it, was hoping for 3 cords. Pretty cool looking, and I will save alot of space by doing this. Have room for 2 more if I cut that much more wood. I took pictures but my computer wont take them. Bummer!


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## Mo Heat (Mar 13, 2006)

Todd, I hope you can figure out how to post those photos.

Everyone, Does this look like a holzhauzen? http://www.gransfors.com/htm_eng/yxboken/bok04.htm

Lucy says, "Der un holz kopf, Charlie Brown" (or something like that). Sorry Marty, I enjoy your trailers.


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## Todd (Mar 13, 2006)

Yep, it's a Holzhausen or is it Holzhaufen?


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## wahoowad (Mar 13, 2006)

Mo - is this what you meant? http://www.gransfors.com/htm_eng/yxboken/bok04.htm


Cool - a wood choppers net "Holzhackers Netz" www.gransfors.com/ htmer/netz.html


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## fbelec (Mar 13, 2006)

mo i tried the link and didn't see one. 
i am i that dense or was i suppose to click another link from there


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## Mo Heat (Mar 13, 2006)

wahoowad, Yep. I posted the wrong page on that site. Thanks, I updated my link also.
fbelec, my mistake. try it again.


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## Sandor (Mar 13, 2006)

Dylan said:
			
		

> Todd said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I hope he built it 8' in diameter and not in height. Never seen anyone stack wood on a stepladder.


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## Todd (Mar 14, 2006)

It is 8' wide by 8' tall. I'm a pretty tall guy, but I still had to stand on my tippy toes to get the top pieces in place. The artical also states it will shrink when the wood drys so the pile should be reachable for me next fall. (I hope)

I was trying to figure how big to make it to fit 3 full cords. So I went with this formula. Height x PI X Radius Squared or 8x3.14x16= 401. 3 cord is 384 cubic ft. I figured the top would not be square with the bottom so there would be a little fudge in that formula. I used firewood I had stacked up in 3 ea 20' rows or 320 cu ft. It didn't all fit and was left with about 1 10' row or 60cuft. So I ended up with a 260 cu ft Holzhausen. I guess its just shy of 2.5 cords. Sorry, I just kind of eyeballed it and never did the math til now. My math is probably off to.

It does save me space, but that's because it's stacked higher than I could stack safely with regular rows. This thing is very solid and sturdy, no more tipped over rows. I can put 3 of these with over 6 cords next to my garage. 6 rows would take up too much room for me.


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## Todd (Mar 14, 2006)

Ok, I think I got it to work. Here is a pic of my Holzhausen. It aint perfect, but pretty cool lookin.


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## Todd (Mar 14, 2006)

Another angle


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## Todd (Mar 14, 2006)

Dylan said:
			
		

> Impressive.
> 
> What's the name of that body of water in the background??
> 
> Do you find increased morning humidity (dew) than in other places that you've lived?? I live DEEP in a valley with a medium sized river thirty yards from my place, and it sure seems as tho things get moist...despite being in the open.



Lake Wissota, Now that you brought it up, I guess the humidity is a little higher next to the lake.


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## Mo Heat (Mar 14, 2006)

Todd,

I'd have to agree that is one fine looking wood pile! Best I've ever seen, in fact.

I'll have to run this by Mrs. Mo Heat (SWMBO), but I think I have to try this too. She hates the plywood and garbage bags I use to cover my rows.

Do you think the top layer will work like shingles funneling water away and keep the pile dry?


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## Todd (Mar 15, 2006)

Mo Heat said:
			
		

> Todd,
> 
> I'd have to agree that is one fine looking wood pile! Best I've ever seen, in fact.
> 
> ...



Yes, the top layer should be flat splits with the bark up to repel water.


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## fbelec (Mar 15, 2006)

todd very nice looking and definitely a space saver.
can you get a pic of the top?

i would think water is still going to get in and keep it wet.
you can't tarp it, that would defeat the purpose of the way it's built in the middle. (chimney affect)

todd will your stack get any sun where it is?

i would think the more sun the better the stack heats up the better the chimney affect.


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## Todd (Mar 15, 2006)

fbelec said:
			
		

> todd very nice looking and definitely a space saver.
> can you get a pic of the top?
> 
> i would think water is still going to get in and keep it wet.
> ...



Yea , I think water will still get in. I could always throw a tarp over it if there is a real soaker on the way.

I'll get about a half day of sun there. Too many trees in my yard, but the wind seems to funnel through the area pretty well.


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## Marcus (Mar 16, 2006)

Very nice looking Todd.   How long did it take to build?  I think in the spirit of the experiment it should go uncovered because everything I have read about HH does not mention covering  the structure.


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## Todd (Mar 16, 2006)

Marcus said:
			
		

> Very nice looking Todd. How long did it take to build? I think in the spirit of the experiment it should go uncovered because everything I have read about HH does not mention covering the structure.



It took about 3 hrs to build. 

I will leave it uncovered, but the wood I built it with has already been sitting for 6 months, so its half way to being ready to burn. I will build another with fresh split Oak as soon as I process enough.


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## Bushfire (Mar 18, 2006)

Hey Todd,

Having spent some of my childhood in Germany (and summer vacations in Austria and Switzeralnd), I'm familiar with these structures, but only now remembered them thanks to your incredible go at it. What did you use as the pole in the middle?  Those folks that live in the alps really know how to stack firewood.

http://www.scenequest.co.uk/Pictures/Travel/Firewood2.jpg


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## BrotherBart (Mar 18, 2006)

Bushfire said:
			
		

> Hey Todd,
> 
> Having spent some of my childhood in Germany (and summer vacations in Austria and Switzeralnd), I'm familiar with these structures, but only now remembered them thanks to your incredible go at it. What did you use as the pole in the middle?  Those folks that live in the alps really know how to stack firewood.
> 
> http://www.scenequest.co.uk/Pictures/Travel/Firewood2.jpg



Hell, I think they offer masters courses in stacking firewood in Switzerland. Every stack exactly the same height and every stick in it the same length.

Sheesh!


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## pinetop (Mar 18, 2006)

my wife wouldn 't groan about stacked fire wood being unsightly if i did it that way   sculptured wood   how many cords in that holz hausen?


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## Mo Heat (Mar 18, 2006)

pinetop said:
			
		

> my wife wouldn 't groan about stacked fire wood being unsightly if i did it that way   sculptured wood   how many cords in that holz hausen?


7 ft holz hausen = 2.0 cords ( http://www.thechimneysweep.ca/6seasoningwood.html )
8 ft holz hausen = 2.5 cords (Todd)
9 ft holz hausen = (unknown)
10 ft holz hausen = 6.0 cords ( http://www.thechimneysweep.ca/6seasoningwood.html )


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## Todd (Mar 18, 2006)

Bushfire said:
			
		

> Hey Todd,
> 
> Having spent some of my childhood in Germany (and summer vacations in Austria and Switzeralnd), I'm familiar with these structures, but only now remembered them thanks to your incredible go at it. What did you use as the pole in the middle?  Those folks that live in the alps really know how to stack firewood.
> 
> http://www.scenequest.co.uk/Pictures/Travel/Firewood2.jpg



I used a 8' lanscaping timber. I want to build another, but we had about 12" of snow this week, so it will have to wait.


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## begreen (Mar 18, 2006)

BrotherBart said:
			
		

> Bushfire said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That was, until the advent of satellite TV in the mountains.

Two shots:
1980 BTV    and   2005 ATV


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## Mo Heat (Mar 18, 2006)

Todd,

Studying your holz hausen, the one in the photo(s) I posted in the Perfect Picture area, the instructions on the chimney sweep site, and the one in the old Mother Earth news, there are some differences I'd like to resolve before I try to build mine.

All but one seem to agree on the bottom perimeter being a circle of splits placed on the ground. One uses bricks to elevate the wood off the ground. Not a bad idea. I think I'll price some bricks at the evil big box store.

The Mother Earth news people used what they called 'stringers'. Little pieces of kindling between each course (row) the same way the perimeter was created using splits. They say this is to keep the splits tilting downward at the center. This seems to really reduce the density of splits in the Mother Earth holz hausen. And seems like a lot of extra, and perhaps unnecessary, effort to create kindling pieces (in my case), and carefully include them with each course of splits, taking a lot more time and tedium.

Did you employ stringers between courses in your holz hausen?


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## Todd (Mar 19, 2006)

Mo Heat said:
			
		

> Todd,
> 
> Studying your holz hausen, the one in the photo(s) I posted in the Perfect Picture area, the instructions on the chimney sweep site, and the one in the old Mother Earth news, there are some differences I'd like to resolve before I try to build mine.
> 
> ...



I noticed the differences also. I wanted to get 3 cord into it so I went with my own modified approach. Was also worried about laying the first course on the ground, but I think it should stay dry at the bottom and I put all my first course splits bark down. Laying down the first outside ring of splits seemed like too much of an angle, so I used 2x3's for the outside ring. Maybe the next one I'll build some kind of spider web structure. 

It started out as tilting downward at the center, but seemed to even out as I went up. I put uneven splits with the fat side on the outside or used a stringer as needed, but not every course. You also need short pieces to fit in-between gaps due to the fact your going around in a circle. If your splits were all shaped like a pie slice you wouldn't have a problem. The last couple feet or so I started laying splits toward the center, bark up to get the rounded top look. I was throwing filler pieces in the middle every and any way they would fit. I don't think there is any perfect or standardized way of making one of these, it's kind of your own art form. Its kind of a pain in the butt at first, but you'll get the hang of it after a couple courses.


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## adrpga498 (Mar 19, 2006)

Todd,
would you consider using pallets as a sub base, then creating the first layer (ring )  on top of the pallets.


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## Todd (Mar 19, 2006)

adrpga498 said:
			
		

> Todd,
> would you consider using pallets as a sub base, then creating the first layer (ring )  on top of the pallets.



Yeah, I thought of that to. For a 8' HH, you could lay down 4 ea 4'x4' pallets. Just didn't have on hand.


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## psychmike (Mar 20, 2006)

I speak some German and it occurs to me that "holz hausen" would be the plural ("wood houses"), while "holz haus" the singular ("wood house").  Of course, it might be the convention over there to use the plural even when referring to one of them...I'll have to ask me german mum.

I want one!  

First I need a house and chimney...

"No where is there
A more 'appier crew
Than them wot sings
"Chim chim cher-ee
Chim cher-oo!"


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## psychmike (Mar 21, 2006)

According to me mum, the real name for this is a "holzhaufen", which means "wood heap".  It makes sense, because hausen is a plural form, while haufen is the singular.  And it looks more like a heap than a house, no?


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## Todd (Mar 21, 2006)

psychmike said:
			
		

> According to me mum, the real name for this is a "holzhaufen", which means "wood heap".  It makes sense, because hausen is a plural form, while haufen is the singular.  And it looks more like a heap than a house, no?



Makes sense to me. Thanks for the clarification. I'm working on my next one, about 1/3 complete.


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## begreen (Mar 22, 2006)

Todd, it's great that you are pursuing this experiment. Very cool, thanks.  Keep us posted with the drying progress. You do have a meteorological station set up on site, right? And of course you have a conventional stack as a control nearby?


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## psychmike (Mar 22, 2006)

Googling "holzhaufen" returns many more items than "holzhausen":

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=holzhaufen&spell=1


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## begreen (Mar 22, 2006)

Dylan said:
			
		

> BeGreen said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes, I've been cranky the past few days. I guess it's starting to show. We're planning a major remodel and I'm getting tired of quotes by contractors that want to cover their butts with 100% markups. Started getting non-local quotes that are bringing things back to sanity, but it's been a bit stressful.


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## Todd (Mar 22, 2006)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> Todd, it's great that you are pursuing this experiment. Very cool, thanks.  Keep us posted with the drying progress. You do have a meteorological station set up on site, right? And of course you have a conventional stack as a control nearby?



I have a thermometer on a tree about 10' away. Does that count? If you want I could keep a daily log, and record the moisture content with a meter?

In all seriousness, my first Holz Haufen was assembled with firewood that was split 6 months ago, so it should be fine to burn by next season. My next pile is freshly split and I won't need it til the following season of the first pile. That way I should be safe. Of course I will sample some of the second pile next year to see how it burns and let you all know how fast or slow it all drys.


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## rjustice4 (Sep 12, 2007)

...just wondering if anyone tracked moisture content as a function of time for splits stacked in a Holz Hausen vs. wood stacked in straight rows.

Going to be stacking a lot of wood this weekend, and am wondering if I should use the Holz Hausen approach.

Thanks.

Bob


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## Todd (Sep 12, 2007)

I found no difference in moisture between the HH and regular rows. Either method still needs more than 3 months to dry properly unless your in a desert.


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## rjustice4 (Sep 12, 2007)

Thanks for the quick response, Todd.

I'm getting a late start on my pile, but still have a couple months of warm, dry conditions outside.

It's just occured to me as well that I should be able to continue drying indoors during the winter. My PE Spectrum Classic has just been installed in my studio which is a 20' x 30' garage, with concrete floor and a roll up door. I'm thinking about getting two 1/2 cord Woodhaven racks, and storing wood in the studio. As I'm using wood from one rack, I'll be drying the wood in the other rack. I have about 1/2 cord of dry wood to start out with. The studio should be nice and toasty (thanks to the stove), with a very low relative humidity in the winter (cool dry air coming in from outside). May need to keep a window or two open a bit....

Bob


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## Lignums (Oct 14, 2007)

I have been using the Holz Hausen for the past year and I can say it work extremely well.  It seasoned out 2 cords of Siberian Elm in few months with no problem, after 6 months now, I can just about get it started with a match and a little newspaper.  The only difference I make is that I make my stack rectangular shape.  I place a few pallets down and make a regular stack perimeter and stack the interior vertical and then stager the top to for the roof.  It's amazing fast at seasoning out the wettest wood and I can stack 3 cords of wood in the same footprint of one cord stacked in rows.


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## got wood? (Oct 14, 2007)

I agree with LIgnums...it is a great space saver if that is an issue for storing/seasoning your wood.  I'm still skeptical (as most seem to be on this board) about any time savings when it comes to seasoning.  HH are fun to build...until one collapses...twice (my own dumb fault, live and learn about solid foundations - got a picture somewhere).  They take a bit more time too.  When the height of the HH makes it difficult to place the vertical splits in the center (usually shoulder height), progress slows to a crawl (need ladder or friend or both).  I finished off two 8' diameter HH yesterday and while they look impressive and save a lot of space, they were a constant pain to finish off if you've got about 30 other things you need to be doing at any given time.  The wife likes the look better than 8 16' racks...but didn't like how long it took to finish them off.  The jury is still out if I will do it again next season...


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## KeithO (Oct 14, 2007)

I'm personally liking the idea of the stacked welded wire mesh bins.  No stacks to fall over, you only put the wood in once and take it out once and easier to cover against rain penetration in late fall.  3 bins / cord @ $120 each.  When empty, they fold flat.  It sure will be a major time saver.  When I get into building the new garage next year, I am planning on a nice concrete landing on the south side for the bins "home".  Should easily get 5 cord on it with that setup.


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