# Red oak seedling id.



## EatenByLimestone (Nov 7, 2010)

When it comes out of the acorn, during the first year, is the leaf different?  I found a ton of seedlings under a stand of red oaks.  That would usually mean it's a Quercus rubra sapling, but the leaves aren't quite the same shape.  They have red oak barbs, but the leaf is fatter in the middle.  

What says the brain trust?  Quercus rubra yea or nay?








Matt


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## Wood Duck (Nov 7, 2010)

I can't say for sure that you are holding a Red Oak seedling, but I do know that seedling oaks usually have different leaves than the adult trees. If the seedling has hairs on the leaf points (photo indicates it does), then it is obviously in the Red Oak group, so I'd say Red Oak based on probability. If there are lots of seedlings under the Red Oak, for sure MOST of them are Red Oak. Look at a bunch of them and you'll get to know the typical Red Oak seedling. if yours fits the group profile, call it Red Oak. I was looking at seedling oaks this weekend, helping boy scouts do the environmental science merit badge, and we found lots of oak seedlings, at least some of which have to be White Oak (there are mostly White Oaks in the area), but the leaves sure looked odd for White Oak. The seedlings had leaves that lacked the deep lobes of a mature White Oak, sort of the same way your seedling's leaves aren't as deeply lobed as a mature Red Oak's leaves would be.


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## billb3 (Nov 8, 2010)

the red oak seedlings here  often  have a spatula shape like you have a pic of.

I've also seen a mature tree have one branch that will have leaves like that, sometimes huge.


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## Adios Pantalones (Nov 8, 2010)

Juveniles are often a bit different leaf shape.  That looks like red oak.

Realize that all oaks in the US are divided into "Red" and "White"- Red includes turkey, red, black, and many others- the leaf shape between varieties can vary quite a bit as well.


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## firefighterjake (Nov 8, 2010)

Huh . . . learned something new today . . . didn't realize that young oaks were like us . . . they have to go through puberty before their leaves change . . . and then of course that is when their voice also deepens and they can grow a moustache or beard.


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## gpcollen1 (Nov 8, 2010)

Red Oaks, in general, require cold stratification to germinate.  Which means the need to over-winter and germinate in the spring.  White oaks, in general, germinate in the fall and send down a pretty deep tap root prior to winter. 

Edit - Those are probably 1st Year Red Oaks then...


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## firefighterjake (Nov 8, 2010)

CTwoodburner said:
			
		

> Red Oaks, in general, require cold stratification to germinate.  Which means the need to over-winter and germinate in the spring.  White oaks, in general, germinate in the fall and send down a pretty deep tap root prior to winter.
> 
> Edit - Those are probably 1st Year Red Oaks then...



Question . . . questions actually.

I have a plethora (sorry, I rarely get to use that word) of acorns from my oak trees out front . . . and so this Fall while slipping and sliding all over the buggers I decided to bag a bunch up and try planting them on the family land one town over since there are so very few oaks growing there. I realize that red oaks need to be over-wintered (right now I have them in a plastic bag in my unheated garage) . . . come Spring can I just dig a hole and plop them in there and expect them to grow?

Also, I picked up some white oak acorns . . . at least I think they were white oak . . . can I just allow these to over winter in my garage and plant them in the Spring as well or should I plant them now?


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## FLINT (Nov 8, 2010)

EatenByLimestone said:
			
		

> When it comes out of the acorn, during the first year, is the leaf different?  I found a ton of seedlings under a stand of red oaks.  That would usually mean it's a Quercus rubra sapling, but the leaves aren't quite the same shape.  They have red oak barbs, but the leaf is fatter in the middle.
> 
> What says the brain trust?  Quercus rubra yea or nay?
> 
> ...



Matt, 

If I were to ID a seedling like that in the woods, I would call it Quercus rubra.    The only other thing that would be close would be black oak, Quercus velutina, but I think yours look more like northern red oak.  


For others, leaf shape in oaks is highly variable and has more to do with the amount of sun received than the age of the tree.  Generally leaves that receive less sun will have much shallower lobes than those in the sun.  In oaks, the difference is sometimes dramatic.  

and for jake.  I would put those red oak acorns in some pots with soil and leaf litter and keep them outside in a shed and a little damp - but not too much - but definitely get them out of that plastic bag asap as they will mold fast in a plastic bag.  you can plant them in the ground in the spring as soon as the ground thaws, and keep them wet.  don't plant them too deep though as they won't germinate.


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## billb3 (Nov 8, 2010)

firefighterjake said:
			
		

> CTwoodburner said:
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White oak acorns should be sprouting now.
I have  three dozen on my front porch in yogurt container pots.
Several of them are sending a shoot up from the root start, with the little tap root being about two inches long.

I have  not had a lot of luck with either and  have found that they do not like being in pots in the Winter and freezing too hard.
The only ones I've gotten past two Winters were heeled into the ground outside to help with getting too cold.
We had a good year for white oak acorns this year. 
Shame no deer came to chow down on them.

They can be awful to try to rake up once they've set a root into the ground.


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## Backwoods Savage (Nov 9, 2010)

firefighterjake said:
			
		

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Jake, that is very good that you finally got to use that word.


Yes, there is a huge difference in the leaves of young vs older trees (like people). However, most times you will find the younger leaves much, much larger than the mature ones. If you don't believe this, look up a sassafras some time. 


On keeping and planting the acorns;  Don't get too excited about it as it rarely works well.

If you try to keep a white oak acorn, do not take any into the house! In just a week or so you will find these tiny little worms crawling out of the acorn. That will cause you to dump those things in a hurry.

On the red oak acorns you might have a little more luck but still sporadic. Do not pick them up in the fall of the year. Wait until Spring to do so. You will find them growing in driveways, under other trees, in the yard or wherever a squirrel has buried them during the fall or winter. If you can catch them just when the sprout has grown out of the acorn and then bent down to take root into the ground (a small window for this) you might have some luck with a certain percentage of them growing. Good luck.


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## chumby (Nov 9, 2010)

Looks like _toxicodendron radicans_.  You should really wash your hands after handling!  j/k  I vote for northern red oak.


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## Wood Duck (Nov 9, 2010)

Jake,
I think the easiest way to plant the oaks is just to toss the a acorns on the ground and 'heel' them in. ideally, you'll have a little bit of exposed soil for the new oak - pull up a weed or clump of grass and heel the acorn in the bare spot, or just plant a whole lot of them and hope for the best. I'd definitely plant the White oak acorns now. The Red Oak could be planted now, but you'll get some or most of them eaten by critters over winter, so you could also wait unitil spring. I think you can cold stratify them in damp saw chips stored outside or in a cold basement or similar spot.


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## Adios Pantalones (Nov 9, 2010)

Plant them now where they will be- the ones that don't get eaten will do best.

If you're worried about squirrels, then plant them in deep pots now, and plant out in the spriung.  Watch out that you don't break the tap root for best results in replanting.




			
				firefighterjake said:
			
		

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## firefighterjake (Nov 9, 2010)

Thanks for the reply . . . sounds as though my best bet is to take them all, plop them on the ground and just kind of step on them to push them into the soil.

Now about those locust seeds I picked off the ground in Mystic . . . .


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## Wood Duck (Nov 9, 2010)

Locust seeds will be more dependent on bare soil and sunshine than oaks. Black Locust is a pioneer tree that typically grows in open places, whereas oaks have more ability to grow in shade until they can break through the canopy. I haven't tried it, but you could probably cold/moist stratify the locust seeds by mixing with moist sawdust or potting soil and storing in an unheated shed. In the spring, sprinkle them (and the sawdust or soil they are mixed with) on bare soil and press them in with your foot. Alternately, spread them out now. Either way, I think you'll do far better if they have sun and not too many weeds at first. I don't think you'll have good results scattering them in the woods.


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## Troutchaser (Nov 9, 2010)

There is great variability in the shape and size of oak leaves according to sunlight received.  I'm not so sure this is an age issue as much as that older trees cast more shade to the inner portion of the canopy.  Leaves suffering these low light levels will be "fatter", therefore allowing them to absorb more sunlight.

Throw your acorns into a bucket of water.  Floaters get tossed.  Sinkers are viable.
Stratify in slightly damp potting soil.  I've kept them in bags in the fridge over the winter.  An unheated garage would work.  Too much moisture though and they'll rot.  Fill a pot with acorns and cover with leaf and yard debri and set it outside away from critters.  That will work.  Come early spring they will germinate.  When you see it happening, put them into place.  Some should survive.  Plant them now and you'll lose most to mice, squirrels, birds, etc....

White acorns germinate in the fall and need to be in place before that little tap root gets out too far.


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## gpcollen1 (Nov 9, 2010)

firefighterjake said:
			
		

> Thanks for the reply . . . sounds as though my best bet is to take them all, plop them on the ground and just kind of step on them to push them into the soil.
> 
> Now about those locust seeds I picked off the ground in Mystic . . . .



You can store those red oak acorns in the garage or a refrigerator.  We kept them in a frig in college dendro lab.  JUst clean them off and dry them a bit to lessen the chance of mold or other issues...


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## EatenByLimestone (Nov 10, 2010)

chumby said:
			
		

> Looks like _toxicodendron radicans_.  You should really wash your hands after handling!  j/k  I vote for northern red oak.



When I read the first part of your post I'm thinking, what? poison ivy?  LOL!

I planted a bunch of the little seedlings this weekend in a somewhat dry, sandy spot on the west side of a mountain.  The oaks should love it.   

I also planted 2 _Larix laricina_ I found by a spring.  I put them in to try to stabilize an area that is washing down into a lake.


Matt


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## JeffOakdude (Mar 29, 2014)

EatenByLimestone said:


> When it comes out of the acorn, during the first year, is the leaf different?  I found a ton of seedlings under a stand of red oaks.  That would usually mean it's a Quercus rubra sapling, but the leaves aren't quite the same shape.  They have red oak barbs, but the leaf is fatter in the middle.
> 
> What says the brain trust?  Quercus rubra yea or nay?





firefighterjake said:


> Question . . . questions actually.
> 
> I have a plethora (sorry, I rarely get to use that word) of acorns from my oak trees out front . . . and so this Fall while slipping and sliding all over the buggers I decided to bag a bunch up and try planting them on the family land one town over since there are so very few oaks growing there. I realize that red oaks need to be over-wintered (right now I have them in a plastic bag in my unheated garage) . . . come Spring can I just dig a hole and plop them in there and expect them to grow?
> 
> Also, I picked up some white oak acorns . . . at least I think they were white oak . . . can I just allow these to over winter in my garage and plant them in the Spring as well or should I plant them now?




These Oaks I grew indoors over winter. You get miracle grow seed starting mix and solo cups. Put acorns in water to make they sink. Plant them in the cup. When the root gets at least 3 inches log cut the tip off and plant it back in the cup and before too long you will have OAK TREES!


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