# questions about my timberline



## spitfire123 (Dec 17, 2014)

we bought our house 20yrs ago and it had this stove in living room it is massive and has served us well, heating our whole house 2200 sqft 2 yrs ago my hubby bought this magic heat and attached to the pipe to help reuse lost heat he said and it had a blower so worked even better! At end of last season the magic heat was getting stuck a lot and we started getting more creosole my husband was constantly cleaning this year when we got a big rain storm water started coming down our pipe into and on the stove so he checked it and said the pipe is rotted in the attic and the pipe on roof  the flange was leaking he tarped so to tsp water damage. He went looking to replace pipe and everyone is telling him we need a new stove but honestly we really can't afford it right now , I say replace the pipe and repair the roof and keep the stove. they all tried to sell him these new ones and say they are so much more efficient but i found that this one is about 45 % -50% on one of the sites and the new ones are 70-80 and use less wood, but my wood is free and i have the stove why get a new one, the new ones that could heat our size house are around 3800-4000 dollars , the piping and roof pipe and installation is 1800.00 that is doable but I really don't wanna spend 4000. my husband says the new ones are more efficient and burn less wood but my wood is free so who cares i don't mind loading it more. I do however want it safe and don't want a fire or anything dangerous. the timberline is double door on like pedestal that looks like 2 pipes. it has mountain tree scene on it , it is large and nice and we have a slate floor under it and brick behind it , it in a corner and each side wall has brick , mu husband said there is a piece of steel on the back of inside of the stove that was covering the bricks that is bowing in and thats the only thing that scares me about the stove, is it safe to continue using , can that piece be easily replaced? My husband is handy but doesn't feel comfortable installing pipe or messing with fire stuff so i will have to pay for installation of anything we do as well as what we buy. Please help, any advice is appreciated. if we spend the money on the 8'' pipe repair and install of new pipe for this stove will the stove last us another 10-20 or even 5yrs?


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## pen (Dec 17, 2014)

Make the chimney right, at all costs..... So long as that stove is installed to safe measures (NFPA 211 guidelines) then keep going at it.

If you have free wood, and easy access, and don't mind splitting the extra a new stove might save you, then keep at it.  Again, so long as things are safe, then it's a good deal and that is a solid heater.

I don't know what your current plans are as far as cutting and splitting wood, but with a newer stove, to get the benefits it has to offer, wood needs to be drier than what many of the old stoves would chew through.  This means that for many hardwoods, they need to be cut, split, stacked, in an airy location for at least a year (some like oak 2 years) to be able to burn less wood and get the same heat.

I did this (got myself 2+ years ahead on wood and made darn sure it was dry by being cut, split, and stacked that long) and went from burning 5.5 to 6 cord a winter down to about 3.5 to 4.5, depending on the winter.  

In all, no matter what you do, my opinion is that the magic heat reclaimer needs to go.  Do a search of it on the site and you'll see my opinion doesn't stand alone.  The problem is that a chimney system stays clean when the flue gasses can keep warm all the way to the top of the chimney.  When you install a chimney heat robbing device, it lowers flue gas temps and increases your ability to accumulate creosote and have a chimney fire.  At the same time, reduced draft in the chimney, from a cooler chimney, can have a negative effect on the burn in the stove, amplifying the problem.

In all, if that stove is installed correctly, and the chimney is made safe after what you found this year, then keep doing what you are doing, just ditch that chimney thief.  

Welcome to the site, and good luck.

pen


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## newyorker (Dec 17, 2014)

if money was tight fix the chimney and make sure everything is safe  i had a magic heat on a timberline is worked great and i swipped it everyday  to keep it clean and clean the chimney EVERY month honestly i think magic heats are illigle to use in ny where i live but i used one and loved it the epa stoves are the way to go if you are 2-3 years ahead my wife lifes loading the fire she thinks the wood splits and stacks itself


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## claydogg84 (Dec 17, 2014)

Can you post a picture of what is warped (bowing out)? Very few newer stoves use 8" pipe so keep that in mind as you'll be spending extra money now, when in the future if you do upgrade to a newer stove, you'll only need 6". You say you get the wood free, so you don't mind using more. Does your husband feel the same way? I'm assuming he's the one doing the cutting, splitting, stacking. Without seeing a picture of the problem on the stove, it's going to be hard to say whether or not it's safe to continue to use. If it were me, I would bite the bullet now as you need to replace the piping anyways. You should be able to find a suitable replacement in the $2,000-$3,000 range.


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## newyorker (Dec 17, 2014)

i had a 6 inch chimney that i enlarged to fit the 8inch flue and worked fine if your replacing the chimney i would deffent get a 6 like claydogg said


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## pen (Dec 17, 2014)

claydogg84 said:


> Can you post a picture of what is warped (bowing out)?



Agreed.  At first read, I was thinking a fire brick retainer, as you mention bowing in, and often if it's the stoves outer wall, I see them bow out.  Regardless, Clay's advice is right on, pics make a different.  If possible, use a straight edge to help see the problem area better.

pen


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## pen (Dec 17, 2014)

newyorker said:


> i had a 6 inch chimney that i enlarged to fit the 8inch flue and worked fine if your replacing the chimney i would deffent get a 6 like claydogg said



If the stove has an 8 inch stove collar, the only time it's legit to use a reducer and downsize the chimney to a 6 inch is if doing so is specified as OK in the manual.

The fact that such an installation may work, does not make it right.


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## newyorker (Dec 17, 2014)

i realize that and it was not a smart thing but i have a really good draft and i felt it was safe and they make the reducer for a reason


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## claydogg84 (Dec 17, 2014)

newyorker said:


> i realize that and it was not a smart thing but i have a really good draft and i felt it was safe and they make the reducer for a reason



They make the reducer because some stove manufacturers permitted the 6" and made it clear you could not burn with the doors open. I don't think that's the case here and wouldn't recommend doing it.


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## pen (Dec 17, 2014)

newyorker said:


> i realize that and it was not a smart thing but i have a really good draft and i felt it was safe and they make the reducer for a reason



I believe you that it works, the problem is, if there ever is an issue, will the insurance company use that against you or not to try and get out of the claim?  That's the risk that concerns me.

Making the reduction needs to be specified in the manual as being OK.  If there is no manual, then generally NFPA 211 guidelines come into play, and from what I've read, I've never seen a reduction being kosher there.


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## spitfire123 (Dec 18, 2014)

pen said:


> Make the chimney right, at all costs..... So long as that stove is installed to safe measures (NFPA 211 guidelines) then keep going at it.
> 
> If you have free wood, and easy access, and don't mind splitting the extra a new stove might save you, then keep at it.  Again, so long as things are safe, then it's a good deal and that is a solid heater.
> 
> ...


What about the bowed piece in the back of the inside of the stove should that be replaced , and you feel the stove is safe to continue with as long as we get rid of magic heat and do all new pipes? I uploaded a pic of the back of inside of stove the piece bowed is a piece of I guess steel that lines the inside of the stove and holds brick up i guess? What should the new 8'' pipe and flange and chimney cost 1800 is too much? That was the price given by a company in business for 20 yrs with A rating, how do I know who to use, I also wanted it done asap because I don't want any wear damage or mold. Do we need stainless steel pipe or can we go with the duravent pipe i have seen which is cheaper , the pipes we have now are the old ones that were there and they lasted over 20 yrs so they can't be that bad right?


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## claydogg84 (Dec 18, 2014)

That appears to just be a piece of steel that retains the bricks, but I'm not certain. Did you have any professionals check the stove over? I feel like that is necessary at this point. With that one piece being so badly warped I'm wondering if anything else is. Does the back plate on the outside look straight? You don't need stainless inside the house but it's impossible to say exactly what you need because we don't know clearances.


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## spitfire123 (Dec 18, 2014)

claydogg84 said:


> That appears to just be a piece of steel that retains the bricks, but I'm not certain. Did you have any professionals check the stove over? I feel like that is necessary at this point. With that one piece being so badly warped I'm wondering if anything else is. Does the back plate on the outside look straight? You don't need stainless inside the house but it's impossible to say exactly what you need because we don't know clearances.


i brought pics with me when i went looking at stoves and they all say i need a new stove except one he said it could be restored and the new pipe and install would be 1800. but then encouraged me to get new one for efficiency and for the problem of the new stoves having 6'' pipe. my husband was really wanting to get everything new until he saw he would have a smaller stove, our wood that is cut and stacked and aged is in large logs that fit here so i think now he is thinking about the money and the work and is for keeping this one and just fixing pipe, i got estimate for an timberwolf economizer 2100 ,pipe and installation for 2500. a quadrafire step top everything and install for 4139 but they cant do for 4-6 weeks and im afraid to wait that long with the water issue and im afraid to spend that if i dont need to, i always just worry about lay offs ya know. the other guy who said my stove could be restored was pushing an avalon stokane 1750 with everything and install for 4300 and said stove couldnt get in til after jan 1st but he could come and fix chimney and install pipe and then cap until stove comes in , i feel like they all want to sell me what they are pushing


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## spitfire123 (Dec 18, 2014)

I BROUGHT PICS WITH ME WHEN I WENT LOOKING AT STOVES AND THEY ALL SAY I NEED A NEW STOVE EXCEPT ONE HE SAID IT COULD BE RESTORED AND THE NEW PIPE AND INSTALL WOULD BE 1800. BUT THEN ENCOURAGED ME TO GET NEW ONE FOR EFFICIENCY AND FOR THE PROBLEM OF THE NEW STOVES HAVING 6'' PIPE. MY HUSBAND WAS REALLY WANTING TO GET EVERYTHING NEW UNTIL HE SAW HE WOULD HAVE A SMALLER STOVE, OUR WOOD THAT IS CUT AND STACKED AND AGED IS IN LARGE LOGS THAT FIT HERE SO I THINK NOW HE IS THINKING ABOUT THE MONEY AND THE WORK AND IS FOR KEEPING THIS ONE AND JUST FIXING PIPE, I GOT ESTIMATE FOR AN TIMBERWOLF ECONOMIZER 2100 ,PIPE AND INSTALLATION FOR 2500. A QUADRAFIRE STEP TOP EVERYTHING AND INSTALL FOR 4139 BUT THEY CANT DO FOR 4-6 WEEKS AND IM AFRAID TO WAIT THAT LONG WITH THE WATER ISSUE AND IM AFRAID TO SPEND THAT IF I DONT NEED TO, I ALWAYS JUST WORRY ABOUT LAY OFFS YA KNOW. THE OTHER GUY WHO SAID MY STOVE COULD BE RESTORED WAS PUSHING AN AVALON STOKANE 1750 WITH EVERYTHING AND INSTALL FOR 4300 AND SAID STOVE COULDNT GET IN TIL AFTER JAN 1ST BUT HE COULD COME AND FIX CHIMNEY AND INSTALL PIPE AND THEN CAP UNTIL STOVE COMES IN , I FEEL LIKE THEY ALL WANT TO SELL ME WHAT THEY ARE PUSHING


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## spitfire123 (Dec 18, 2014)

I BROUGHT PICS WITH ME WHEN I WENT LOOKING AT STOVES AND THEY ALL SAY I NEED A NEW STOVE EXCEPT ONE HE SAID IT COULD BE RESTORED AND THE NEW PIPE AND INSTALL WOULD BE 1800. BUT THEN ENCOURAGED ME TO GET NEW ONE FOR EFFICIENCY AND FOR THE PROBLEM OF THE NEW STOVES HAVING 6'' PIPE. MY HUSBAND WAS REALLY WANTING TO GET EVERYTHING NEW UNTIL HE SAW HE WOULD HAVE A SMALLER STOVE, OUR WOOD THAT IS CUT AND STACKED AND AGED IS IN LARGE LOGS THAT FIT HERE SO I THINK NOW HE IS THINKING ABOUT THE MONEY AND THE WORK AND IS FOR KEEPING THIS ONE AND JUST FIXING PIPE, I GOT ESTIMATE FOR AN TIMBERWOLF ECONOMIZER 2100 ,PIPE AND INSTALLATION FOR 2500. A QUADRAFIRE STEP TOP EVERYTHING AND INSTALL FOR 4139 BUT THEY CANT DO FOR 4-6 WEEKS AND IM AFRAID TO WAIT THAT LONG WITH THE WATER ISSUE AND IM AFRAID TO SPEND THAT IF I DONT NEED TO, I ALWAYS JUST WORRY ABOUT LAY OFFS YA KNOW. THE OTHER GUY WHO SAID MY STOVE COULD BE RESTORED WAS PUSHING AN AVALON STOKANE 1750 WITH EVERYTHING AND INSTALL FOR 4300 AND SAID STOVE COULDNT GET IN TIL AFTER JAN 1ST BUT HE COULD COME AND FIX CHIMNEY AND INSTALL PIPE AND THEN CAP UNTIL STOVE COMES IN , I FEEL LIKE THEY ALL WANT TO SELL ME WHAT THEY ARE PUSHING


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## spitfire123 (Dec 18, 2014)

claydogg84 said:


> Can you post a picture of what is warped (bowing out)? Very few newer stoves use 8" pipe so keep that in mind as you'll be spending extra money now, when in the future if you do upgrade to a newer stove, you'll only need 6". You say you get the wood free, so you don't mind using more. Does your husband feel the same way? I'm assuming he's the one doing the cutting, splitting, stacking. Without seeing a picture of the problem on the stove, it's going to be hard to say whether or not it's safe to continue to use. If it were me, I would bite the bullet now as you need to replace the piping anyways. You should be able to find a suitable replacement in the $2,000-$3,000 range.


POSTED IT - THANKS FOR  ADVICE THIS IS A TOUGH DECISION ...SPITFIRE


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## webfish (Dec 18, 2014)

Hi Spit, can you please take your CAPS lock off. Thanks. Makes it very hard to read.


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## claydogg84 (Dec 18, 2014)

It would be better if you had someone actually come inspect the stove in person, not just pictures. Did you look at all exterior walls of the stove? Check them with a flat edge to see if they are still true. Did you ask the installers the price difference between the 6" & 8" pipe? I imagine it is somewhere around $400. How big are your splits? Chances are they are in fact going to be a bit too large and possibly wet for a newer stove as most will have a smaller firebox than you're used to.


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## spitfire123 (Dec 18, 2014)

they want 100 to come look at it, exterior walls i just checked with a straight edge and is straight, yes there is about 450 difference , his splits are 16-28 so he will have to cut some, and they definitely are not bone dry because they are stacked in a homed wood shed with no doors so one side does get blown in at times and our stove is 30 wide and the firebox is huge, so will this wood ruin one of the new stoves? this stove puts out enormous heat quite often its too warm in there for some people because its not a open concept living room, we have an central air exchange right outside that room and we put the fan on and it circulates the heat all over the house , we both do like the look of it too, its real solid . i just don't want to keep and put all new 8'' pipe and then it go on us and then we have to get all new everything. i would like to keep if i can id raher spend money on opening up wall to make more open concept. and that my husband feels comfortable doing himself.


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## spitfire123 (Dec 18, 2014)

when we bought house they had co's and all paperwork on install so for this stove at the time of install the clearances were right, all the places i went to said the new stoves require less of clearance and since we have brick on surrounding walls its fine. A new stove we could afford would definitely be smaller in size inside and out


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## claydogg84 (Dec 18, 2014)

spitfire123 said:


> they want 100 to come look at it, exterior walls i just checked with a straight edge and is straight, yes there is about 450 difference , his splits are 16-28 so he will have to cut some, and they definitely are not bone dry because they are stacked in a homed wood shed with no doors so one side does get blown in at times and our stove is 30 wide and the firebox is huge, so will this wood ruin one of the new stoves? this stove puts out enormous heat quite often its too warm in there for some people because its not a open concept living room, we have an central air exchange right outside that room and we put the fan on and it circulates the heat all over the house , we both do like the look of it too, its real solid . i just don't want to keep and put all new 8'' pipe and then it go on us and then we have to get all new everything. i would like to keep if i can id raher spend money on opening up wall to make more open concept. and that my husband feels comfortable doing himself.



I can't say for sure about your existing stove and it may be worth the $100 to have a professional check it out for you. I can say that if your husband is a handyman he can most likely do the pipe install himself with a little help from a friend. The savings from doing the work yourselves, as well as using 6" instead of 8" would surely offset the cost of a new stove. In the end it's up to you. I loved my old Vermont Castings stove and I installed a brand new SS 8" liner because I wanted to keep it a few more years. After moving it around to install the pipe I ended up cracking it around one of the legs. At that point I just bought a new stove and wasted a about $400 because the new stove only needed a 6" liner, not 8.


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## claydogg84 (Dec 18, 2014)

Have you been looking at cast iron stoves, or steel? I would think you should be able to get a large steel stove for around $2,000.


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## spitfire123 (Dec 18, 2014)

pen said:


> Agreed.  At first read, I was thinking a fire brick retainer, as you mention bowing in, and often if it's the stoves outer wall, I see them bow out.  Regardless, Clay's advice is right on, pics make a different.  If possible, use a straight edge to help see the problem area better.
> 
> pen


posted a pick it looks like its a steel fire brick retainer , i checked all three exterior walls and they are straight no damage


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## spitfire123 (Dec 18, 2014)

thanks , i guess we are gonna bite it and get a new one so what does everyone recommend, i want a square plain more modern look with pedestal , my husband wants it to be large enough and efficient enough, i think he could install as well but because its fire related he doesn't feel comfortable, same with electric work, he is a mason and carpenter but stays away from electric and he clearly doesn't want to install this, also if you install yourself is it still covered by warranty, is the wood we have a little damp gonna ruin new stove


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## claydogg84 (Dec 18, 2014)

spitfire123 said:


> thanks , i guess we are gonna bite it and get a new one so what does everyone recommend, i want a square plain more modern look with pedestal , my husband wants it to be large enough and efficient enough, i think he could install as well but because its fire related he doesn't feel comfortable, same with electric work, he is a mason and carpenter but stays away from electric and he clearly doesn't want to install this, also if you install yourself is it still covered by warranty, is the wood we have a little damp gonna ruin new stove



As long as the install is done by code and inspected you will be fine. How long has your wood been split, stacked, and covered? New EPA stoves rely on good, dry firewood. While burning wet wood won't ruin it, it will surely make for an unpleasant experience. I am by no means pushing you towards getting a new stove. I think it would be a good idea to have a professional check out the current state of the one you have first. BUT, if a new stove is in the plans for any near future - Now is the time as it will save you on the cost of the pipe.


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## spitfire123 (Dec 18, 2014)

claydogg84 said:


> As long as the install is done by code and inspected you will be fine. How long has your wood been split, stacked, and covered? New EPA stoves rely on good, dry firewood. While burning wet wood won't ruin it, it will surely make for an unpleasant experience. I am by no means pushing you towards getting a new stove. I think it would be a good idea to have a professional check out the current state of the one you have first. BUT, if a new stove is in the plans for any near future - Now is the time as it will save you on the cost of the pipe.


thanks for your quick response and advice , will get an estimate , the wood is not wet but not bone dry either thanks


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