# Volkwagon Diesel (TDI)



## mbcijim (May 14, 2012)

So I bought my first new car a few weeks ago.  It is a Volkswagon Jetta TDI model, which means it's diesel.  I put 1,200 miles on it so far.  My average MPG is 43.8.  I wanted a stick but the dealer swore that they don't get better mileage anymore, that technology has changed and they are roughly equal in MPG. 

My first reaction to the high MPG is 1) I am never, ever going back even with $2.00/gallon gas, 2) We are all talking about hybrid, electric, when the volkswagon diesel is a very good solution right here right now that works. 

Some other things that surprised me was no emissions testing is necessary (at least in Pennsylvania where I live) and that oil changes are every year or 10,000 miles, whichever comes first.  Both are nice selling points although very minor in the scope of things.


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## webbie (May 14, 2012)

That may be my next car after I wear out my Passat. I only get 31-32 on the highway....but I understand how the decent mileage is addicting. We hardly ever take the Subaru (25mpg) on long trips since that would be a waste of money and gas.

I don't see gas going down to $2.......even as a fluke. Maybe $3.


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## Jack Straw (May 14, 2012)

I always wondered what the cost difference would be.
I ran these numbers with local area prices
43.8 MPG
400 miles driven
9.13 gals used
9.13 gals x $4.25 per gal= $38.81


Typical gas equivalent
35 mpg
400 miles
11.43 gal used
11.43 x $ 3.87 per gal=$44.23

Does the diesel option cost more than the gas equivalent?


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## webbie (May 14, 2012)

I think it depends on many factors.

Jim mentioned a combined MPG of 43+
I don't think many gas cars can attain that.

Also, people are driven by much more than the exact price - I'm 100% certain Jim could afford to drive a 25MPG car, but maybe he has a thing for efficiency? Lots of buyers do.

There are other factors also. Some diesels have better towing specs......

I happen to like the ride of VW.....it has that german feel in the suspension and steering.

So there are lots of factors involved. I looked at the Jetta before I bought my Passat, but it was an older model then and not quite as refined. But the newer Jetta is almost as big as the Passat.


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## begreen (May 14, 2012)

Yep, the new Jetta TDI is nice. I was looking at their wagon when I picked up the camper. Almost hitched it behind to take home. A friend has the older Jetta TDI which averages 55mpg and loves it. Still, locally diesel costs as much or more than premium gas, so I am happy with the Prius getting the same mileage on regular.


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## DexterDay (May 14, 2012)

begreen said:


> Yep, the new Jetta TDI is nice. I was looking at their wagon when I picked up the camper. Almost hitched it behind to take home. A friend has the older Jetta TDI which averages 55mpg and loves it. Still, locally diesel costs as much or more than premium gas, so I am happy with the Prius getting the same mileage on regular.



Yep... My buddy at work has a 6 yr Old TDI (manual) Jetta that gets 53 MPG. They advertise less than what they do actually get.....

He lives about 45 miles from work (highway) and I live almost 60 miles away (highway also). My 2011 Focus only gets about 34.5. I looked at the Jettas. But as much as I drive, its hard to justify the extra $$$$$.  Driving about 40,000 miles a yr os hard on any vehicle/wallet. But I live next to Amish. So I must drive to where the work is...

My next truck will be a diesel. The 03 F-150 SuperCrew FX4 has some miles on her now. Time for a new one.  A 1 ton SuperCrew w/ Diesel.  Dollar for Dollar the HP and Torque is unmatched.


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## MasterMech (May 15, 2012)

mbcijim said:


> So I bought my first new car a few weeks ago. It is a Volkswagon Jetta TDI model, which means it's diesel. I put 1,200 miles on it so far. My average MPG is 43.8. I wanted a stick but the dealer swore that they don't get better mileage anymore, that technology has changed and they are roughly equal in MPG.
> 
> My first reaction to the high MPG is 1) I am never, ever going back even with $2.00/gallon gas, 2) We are all talking about hybrid, electric, when the volkswagon diesel is a very good solution right here right now that works.
> 
> Some other things that surprised me was no emissions testing is necessary (at least in Pennsylvania where I live) and that oil changes are every year or 10,000 miles, whichever comes first. Both are nice selling points although very minor in the scope of things.


 
Sounds like the dealer has an auto in stock and really didn't want to order you a manual.  I love stick shift small cars.  I've found that many auto's have STUPID programming that try's to keep them in the highest gear possible for best MPG's regardless of throttle position.  My Canyon will attempt to shift like it has a V8 under the hood (and the associated stump pulling low-RPM torque) instead of the 3.5L 5 cyl it has.  I can "manually" shift/drive it to a combined MPG of aprox. 20 MPG whereas if I let the vehicle shift as programmed it will drop to 16-17 MPG or worse.  Just taking it out of overdrive for hilly, winding roads and hill climbs on the highways makes a big difference.

Those long oil changes are common now, even with a gas motor.  Factory interval on both my truck (2005) and my wifes car (2011) is 10,000+ miles.  Almost every mfg is over 7500 mile intervals now.  Diesel combustion byproducts are less harmful to the oil than gasoline combustion byproducts.  Semi-trucks go for amazingly long distances in-between changes.  3mo/3000 miles is a dead horse.  If you do your own oil changes, do yourself a favor and buy the highest quality synthetic oil you can find in your area to make that motor go forever.

There is still some stiff resistance to diesels in the US because of:

1) The bad taste left in our mouths from Detroit's late 70's/early 80's offerings.  The result of American mfg policy at the time.  Cheaper is better right?

2) The assumption that the small diesels used by the Europeans in their cars are the same as the workhorses under the hoods of semi's, pickups, and off-road equipment.

3) The higher price of diesel at the pump.  Here, currently it's $.50 a gallon difference.   That makes no sense to me.

We have a family friend with the Jetta TDI wagon and he does occasionally tow a small pontoon boat with it.  Try that with your Prius.


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## coaly (May 15, 2012)

The reason many automatics get better mileage then the older ones is due to torque converter locks. There is always fluid slippage inside a torque converter like a fan on the engine pushing the fluid against a driven fan connected to the wheels. Once up to speed, this slippage is minimal, but can still build up heat, and cause wasted motor RPM's. Newer autos are using a electromagnet that locks the engine and wheels together to avoid all slippage when possible. Sometimes when this locks, it will feel like another gear, or overdrive. That's how much slippage there was with older automatics on the highway. Vehicles with the lock and a 4 speed auto will find if you shift down to 3 on a hill and back off, you can get the converter to lock in 3 rd and run a lower RPM than letting it slip all the way up the hill in 4th.

Keeping injectors clean to get a good spray pattern is essential for the best mileage. I was a tech for VW-Audi back when the diesels came out. Using Power Service fuel conditioner helps, (and is required to add lubricity to the diesel of today) and when changing the fuel filter, pour it in the filter straight to run it on the cleaner / lubricant. This cleans the injector tips of any carbon to get the very fine atomized mist required.

Europeans will also run about 1000 RPM higher in lower gears then in the US. They will always run 3 rd on all back roads and only "D" to let it go into high on the highway. Owners manuals actually call for this, but American drivers tend to use "D" for everything and lug our engines more. This prevents converter lockup to engage as well.


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## lukem (May 15, 2012)

My BIL has a '03 with a manual and gets 48 in mixed driving.

It boggles my mind why there isn't a half ton diesel pickup available in the US. I would be all over one.  Something with about 150 - 200 HP and 300 - 400 lb ft and gets mid to upper 20's mpg would be awesome.


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## Seasoned Oak (May 15, 2012)

lukem said:


> My BIL has a '03 with a manual and gets 48 in mixed driving.
> 
> It boggles my mind why there isn't a half ton diesel pickup available in the US. I would be all over one. Something with about 150 - 200 HP and 300 - 400 lb ft and gets mid to upper 20's mpg would be awesome.


GM has a 4.5L diesel they already developed and tested just in time to get mothballed when the big depression hit a few years ago and PU sales went through the floor. It is 300HP and only the size of a 350 gasser  so it fits in everything. Word is that it can do 30MPG in  a full size PU. Hope they change their mind and bring it back. My sons 6.6L GM duramax PU does over 20MPG Hwy on a regular basis. Not bad for a 6000 LB truck.


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## nate379 (May 15, 2012)

It's Volkswagen, no such thing as "Volkswagon"

I get 43-45mpg in mine, an 05 Jetta. Been meaning to put a different 5th gear ratio in, but haven't had the time.

I pay about the same for diesel as pump gas costs. I have a bulk tank at my house that holds 300 gallons.  I run through about a tank a week in the Jetta (550-600 miles)


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## nate379 (May 15, 2012)

I think your talking about a torque convertor clutch? It's just a large friction disc(s) similar to the ones used in the transmission. Been in just about all car/truck auto trans made in the last 20 years.



coaly said:


> The reason many automatics get better mileage then the older ones is due to torque converter locks. There is always fluid slippage inside a torque converter like a fan on the engine pushing the fluid against a driven fan connected to the wheels. Once up to speed, this slippage is minimal, but can still build up heat, and cause wasted motor RPM's. Newer autos are using a electromagnet that locks the engine and wheels together to avoid all slippage when possible. Sometimes when this locks, it will feel like another gear, or overdrive. That's how much slippage there was with older automatics on the highway. Vehicles with the lock and a 4 speed auto will find if you shift down to 3 on a hill and back off, you can get the converter to lock in 3 rd and run a lower RPM than letting it slip all the way up the hill in 4th.


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## MasterMech (May 16, 2012)

coaly said:


> The reason many automatics get better mileage then the older ones is due to torque converter locks. There is always fluid slippage inside a torque converter like a fan on the engine pushing the fluid against a driven fan connected to the wheels. Once up to speed, this slippage is minimal, but can still build up heat, and cause wasted motor RPM's. Newer autos are using a electromagnet that locks the engine and wheels together to avoid all slippage when possible. Sometimes when this locks, it will feel like another gear, or overdrive. That's how much slippage there was with older automatics on the highway. Vehicles with the lock and a 4 speed auto will find if you shift down to 3 on a hill and back off, you can get the converter to lock in 3 rd and run a lower RPM than letting it slip all the way up the hill in 4th.
> 
> Keeping injectors clean to get a good spray pattern is essential for the best mileage. I was a tech for VW-Audi back when the diesels came out. Using Power Service fuel conditioner helps, (and is required to add lubricity to the diesel of today) and when changing the fuel filter, pour it in the filter straight to run it on the cleaner / lubricant. This cleans the injector tips of any carbon to get the very fine atomized mist required.
> 
> Europeans will also run about 1000 RPM higher in lower gears then in the US. They will always run 3 rd on all back roads and only "D" to let it go into high on the highway. Owners manuals actually call for this, but American drivers tend to use "D" for everything and lug our engines more. This prevents converter lockup to engage as well.


 

This post is just freakin' excellent. 

 Manipulating the TC Clutch is exactly what I'm doing on my little truck to get the better mileage.  Problem is, with the little 3.5L it likes to run at 1800 RPM with the throttle wide open, 4th gear TCC locked.  It will then downshift straight to 2nd , and rev to 5000+ to regain speed before shifting back into 4th.  The cruise programming just likes to pretend that 3rd gear doesn't exist and I find that very annoying considering all the on-board computing power available on todays vehicles.  If it's not in cruise, it's better, but it still prefers to unlock the converter rather than downshift.  At anything over 30 MPH that just doesn't make sense from a fuel economy standpoint and really even the driveability suffers.  This truck would be stellar with a modern 5/6 speed transmission in it and if GM fired their driveability programmer.  FWIW this isn't the only GM vehicle (or any mfg'r for that matter) that I've driven that acts like this.


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## coaly (May 16, 2012)

No, Nate;  I'm referring to a electric winding that becomes a magnet called a torque converter lock controlled by the computer. It's an electromagnet that makes a solid connection between engine and transmission. My Land Rover has a switch next to the shifter for "Manual Mode" that will not shift and run locked. (When in Low Range) Just like a standard transmission. Shifting into 1,2,3 or 4 puts it directly in that gear. When in low range, you can select the gear you want and hit a second button "Hill Descent Control". This runs the ABS pump and applies brakes to keep it from going faster than when the button was pushed. A slow speed cruise control if you will. This is for extremely steep declines that maintains each wheel rotating the same speed. Or steering on the side of a cliff if you don't want to be in the vehicle in case it goes over at walking speed.
  The Rover also has a second valve body that changes the shift points to a "Sport" position when the button next to the shifter is pushed in high range. It only locks you in the manual mode in low range. The ZF automatic is one of the best automatics made with imperceptable shifting. You see the tach drop and know it shifted, you can't feel it. BMW uses the ZF and I believe most vehicles today are using electric solenoid operated locks. They are available as an add on as well.
They started in '96. http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/5505284/claims.html

Maybe you're referring to the same thing, but I think your're referring to a mechanical clutch. I was a VW mechanic before we were called "Techs". Beetle, Type I,  Type II and Bus. They were all air flow control injected before there was any injected vehicle in the US. Then they started water cooled engines, then later added the diesel in the 80's. Same cast engine block and bottom end, that shows how heavy duty the VW water cooled engine was. We couldn't keep the head gasket from leaking on the diesels. It would either leak into the coolant tank blowing it up like a ballon or leak down the front of the block. Valve clearance between piston and valve was controlled by head gasket thickness. They had notches on a tab outside the gasket so you knew what thickness gasket to use. So using a thicker gasket or sealer decreased compression. A thinner gasket allowed valves to contact the carbon on top of the piston. I took many apart that had valve imprints in the carbon ! Wasn't much we could do with head gaskets back then. That WAS over 20 years ago, thanks for the reminder !!

Another story was the very first truck race at Pocono Raceway close to our dealership. We were supplying the pace truck, a VW pick-up for the race, and the night before, a little clip snapped inside the transmission. It was a brand new vehicle - the next model year coming up -  with no parts available in the states yet. VW had to fly another new 5 speed transmission to the track overnight for the race next day. That race was in the 80's. Not the Nascar truck races of today. It was heavy trucks. A field of Bob Tails behind that pace truck ! It was easy to shift a little too hard pulling out in front of the leader doing only 40 to 60 mph in a 4 cylinder diesel.


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## Seasoned Oak (May 16, 2012)

nate379 said:


> It's Volkswagen, no such thing as "Volkswagon"
> 
> I get 43-45mpg in mine, an 05 Jetta. Been meaning to put a different 5th gear ratio in, but haven't had the time.
> 
> I pay about the same for diesel as pump gas costs. I have a bulk tank at my house that holds 300 gallons. I run through about a tank a week in the Jetta (550-600 miles)


More MPG are possible Also pretty impressive is the 64.6 MPG from a non hybrid ,non diesel Chevy cruze.(mentioned at  end of story)
http://wot.motortrend.com/couple-se...ord-in-2012-volkswagen-passat-tdi-202867.html


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## nate379 (May 16, 2012)

I'm sure I could get 60mpg if I really wanted to but I have no desire to drive like an 80yr old women and I doubt anyone else behind me does either!


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## ihookem (May 19, 2012)

I always wanted a VW deisel. My won't even get in one though. I have an 05  GMC deisel PU. It gets 20 @ 2,000 rpm's. I cam e across a 91 Saturn, 5 peed stick. I avr 40 mpg. My worst is 37.5, my best is 42.47. I run this car when I don't need to run my truck. I'm going synthetic oil, better tires and non ethanol gas. to see if I can get 46??? Who knows. I wish we would be more concerned about fuel milage.


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## Seasoned Oak (May 20, 2012)

Looking for a car my daughter can use, the Cruze ECO for $149  lease getting 42 MPG looks pretty good. NO doubt there will be something better in 3 years so no sense buying it and taking a shellacking on the trade in.


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## Corey (May 20, 2012)

Jack Straw said:


> I always wondered what the cost difference would be.
> I ran these numbers with local area prices
> 43.8 MPG
> 400 miles driven
> ...


 
Interesting numbers. If I drive my car sensibly, it will get 31mpg on E85....

31 mpg
400 miles driven
12.90 gallons used
12.90 gallons x $2.99 per gal=*$38.58* ...essentially comparable to diesel, while either leave gasoline in the dust.

The flip side is, putting the accelerator to the floor and letting the turbo work it's magic, it would most assuredly pass a TDI like the diesel wasn't even in gear. So the option exists to get even more mpg by trading some top end HP. I'm actually hoping to do in the coming years, as I noted a guy recently dynoed 514 hp with a 3mm smaller turbo than I have.



			
				ihookem said:
			
		

> I wish we would be more concerned about fuel milage.


 
I wish we would be more concerned about where our fuel comes from and the actual cost per mile of driving.


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## nate379 (May 20, 2012)

My fuel comes out of the ground about 700 miles north of here.


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## TMonter (May 21, 2012)

Don't forget to factor in the price of the car and maintenance. When maintenance comes due on a diesel you pay a premium compared to a gas motor.


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## TMonter (May 21, 2012)

> There is still some stiff resistance to diesels in the US because of:
> 
> 1) The bad taste left in our mouths from Detroit's late 70's/early 80's offerings. The result of American mfg policy at the time. Cheaper is better right?
> 
> ...


 
Don't forget EPA regulations as well. Most euro diesels will not meet the current US EPA regulations even though their emissions per miles driven is lower.


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## Jags (May 21, 2012)

TMonter said:


> Don't forget EPA regulations as well. Most euro diesels will not meet the current US EPA regulations even though their emissions per miles driven is lower.


 
Yeah, because of the stupid way that we rate emissions output.  Per mile makes a helluvalot more sense than per gallon (like we do it)


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## nate379 (May 21, 2012)

Not really, normal maintenance items costs about the same.



TMonter said:


> Don't forget to factor in the price of the car and maintenance. When maintenance comes due on a diesel you pay a premium compared to a gas motor.


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## velvetfoot (May 21, 2012)

We just this hour came back from a week in Ireland.  Nearly every vehicle there, far as I can tell, is diesel.  Our rental was a diesel Focus five speed that drove great.  There are a lot of small diesel cars there that I wish we had available here.  I had a TDI Beetle for 225,000 miles, and I really loved that car.  I'm no petroleum industry expert, so I can't understand why diesel (and heating fuel) is so expensive compared with gasoline.


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## begreen (May 21, 2012)

As you probably noted, diesel is a lot more expensive in Ireland than it is here. It's more expensive than gasoline here because the rest of the world will pay more for it than we will.


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## velvetfoot (May 21, 2012)

?????    Diesel is a good bit cheaper than gasoline in Ireland.  Diesel, and to just a little bit less of an extent, is a good bit more expensive than gasoline in the US.  THAT is what I don't understand.  I'd expect stuff like refinery capacity, government subsidies, etc, would come into play, but I wouldn't be able to filter out the BS.


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## TMonter (May 21, 2012)

nate379 said:


> Not really, normal maintenance items costs about the same.


 
Not if it's anything to do with the fuel system or ECU. That's one of the primary reasons I won't buy a Diesel Pickup for my wood truck. Granted most repairs are not engine related but when they are they are vastly more expensive.

Also, never run a Diesel out of fuel.


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## TMonter (May 21, 2012)

begreen said:


> As you probably noted, diesel is a lot more expensive in Ireland than it is here. It's more expensive than gasoline here because the rest of the world will pay more for it than we will.


 
Nope:

http://www.r3sciences.com/crude_oil_a_breakdown_of_re.html

You get twice as much gas per barrel of oil (approximately).


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## begreen (May 21, 2012)

Strawman and not the actual reason why prices for diesel have gone up. The market dictates. Diesel prices have gone up in the US primarily because refineries are getting better prices overseas. The Keystone XL pipeline will feed refineries that are set up for export, not US consumption.

http://www.factcheck.org/2008/05/diesel-fuel-and-gasoline-costs/


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## TMonter (May 21, 2012)

begreen said:


> Strawman and not the actual reason why prices for diesel have gone up. The market dictates. Diesel prices have gone up in the US primarily because refineries are getting better prices overseas. The Keystone XL pipeline will feed refineries that are set up for export, not US consumption.
> 
> http://www.factcheck.org/2008/05/diesel-fuel-and-gasoline-costs/


 
Actually the very article shows that the market does not really dictate prices but rather regulatory compliance and taxes does. However there also is some effect from the fact that less diesel is produced on the cracking tower as well. I would imagine that the global demand for diesel also plays some part, but I'm betting far less than regulatory compliance and taxes.


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## begreen (May 21, 2012)

That is a factor, but not the main cause:

"Finally, higher federal taxes account for 6 cents per gallon of the price difference at the pump. Gasoline is taxed at 18.4 cents per gallon, and diesel at 24.4 cents per gallon. That’s been true for years and explains why diesel has sold for an average of 1.3 percent more than gasoline over the time period covered by the EIA’s figures. *It does not explain why the spread has gotten so wide recently, however. Again,*_* the main factor is demand*._"


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## nate379 (May 21, 2012)

Why?

Other than having to bleed the system, which isn't difficult, it's not an issue.



TMonter said:


> Also, never run a Diesel out of fuel.


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## MasterMech (May 22, 2012)

TMonter said:


> Not if it's anything to do with the fuel system or ECU. That's one of the primary reasons I won't buy a Diesel Pickup for my wood truck. Granted most repairs are not engine related but when they are they are vastly more expensive.
> 
> Also, never run a Diesel out of fuel.


 
Your paying through the nose for a technician that specializes in diesels to work on your car/truck. And yeah some parts of diesels are quite a bit more $$ than the "equivalent" gas part (Fuel Injectors come to mind) but a lot of the really high dollar items like injection pumps have come down in price and gotten even more reliable.

The 7.3L Powerstrokes in 1995?-2003 Ford pickups were a 15qt oil change.  Granted it was a longer interval but still....

Right now with fuel prices the way they are, unless you need the extra capability of the diesel (most OEM's axe'd their big gas engines. ) or drive a ton of miles, you're right on about sticking with a gasser.

As far as running out of fuel, most newer diesels, even on off-road machinery, are self-bleeding.  Not the nightmare job of changing filters, pre-filling the new ones and re-bleeding the system that it used to be with the older construction equipment.


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## TMonter (May 22, 2012)

MasterMech said:


> Your paying through the nose for a technician that specializes in diesels to work on your car/truck. And yeah some parts of diesels are quite a bit more $$ than the "equivalent" gas part (Fuel Injectors come to mind) but a lot of the really high dollar items like injection pumps have come down in price and gotten even more reliable.
> 
> The 7.3L Powerstrokes in 1995?-2003 Ford pickups were a 15qt oil change.  Granted it was a longer interval but still....
> 
> ...


 
Exactly why I chose a 3/4 Ton gas pickup (F250). I was able to find one with relatively low miles on 460-V8. It has a carburetor, but a recent rebuild done on the carb and it starts and runs beautifully. I drive maybe 1k miles a year with it. Best thing is since we don't use salt here there is no rust to speak of on the rig, which is great. I'm not looking forward to changing the belts though, there is something to be said for the serpentine drive belt system.


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## MasterMech (May 22, 2012)

TMonter said:


> Exactly why I chose a 3/4 Ton gas pickup (F250). I was able to find one with relatively low miles on 460-V8. It has a carburetor, but a recent rebuild done on the carb and it starts and runs beautifully. I drive maybe 1k miles a year with it. Best thing is since we don't use salt here there is no rust to speak of on the rig, which is great. I'm not looking forward to changing the belts though, there is something to be said for the serpentine drive belt system.


 
I'll take your belts anyday over most FWD cars.


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## nate379 (May 22, 2012)

I ran a Ford 460 for a while. Got 8-9mpg while towing a trailer, 35-40mph at near WOT while pulling grades. My diesel Ram 2500 hooked to same trailer gets 12-13mpg, and I can hold the speed limit without trouble.

Used my bosses 6.0L gas 2500 GMC last week to haul my trailer, I burned through 30 gallons of fuel in 275 miles 

The other thing too is at 200-300k on that gas motor, it's getting pretty long in the tooth.  The diesel still has another 200-300k left in it if treated right.


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## nate379 (May 22, 2012)

Can't seem to edit (something about a java error?) but wanted to add it doesn't really matter on ecomoney if your just putting around town with it, but I USE my truck for hauling all over the place. This weekend I'm running my race car at a track that is about 5 hours north, about a 600 mile round trip drive. Just a short trip so to speak compared to other places I have been over the years.

BUT 600 miles at 13mpg in the diesel vs 9mpg in a gas truck is a savings of about $65 in fuel with today's fuel prices.  That covers my fees to get into the race!


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## TMonter (May 22, 2012)

nate379 said:


> I ran a Ford 460 for a while. Got 8-9mpg while towing a trailer, 35-40mph at near WOT while pulling grades. My diesel Ram 2500 hooked to same trailer gets 12-13mpg, and I can hold the speed limit without trouble.
> 
> Used my bosses 6.0L gas 2500 GMC last week to haul my trailer, I burned through 30 gallons of fuel in 275 miles
> 
> The other thing too is at 200-300k on that gas motor, it's getting pretty long in the tooth. The diesel still has another 200-300k left in it if treated right.


 

I only haul firewood, home repair projects and the occasional trailer though. How long would it take me to pay back at 1000 miles per year? For most people a Diesel truck will not pay back and that's my point.Diesels are not the end all solution, the type of use needs to play into equation.

For a daily driver I have a 1995 Corolla that I drive that gets 33 mpg.


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## 3fordasho (May 24, 2012)

I've had my 2012 Jetta sportwagen tdi for about a month now, almost a 1000 miles on it. First new car purchase in 35years of driving.  Mine has the 6 speed and the epa estimates put the MPG maybe 1-2mpg better than the DSG (auto) version.  I've been pleasantly suprised to see 38-39mpg in town driving, a vast improvement over the 20mpg  (in town) I was getting in my Subaru WRX.  The WRX was quite a bit smaller inside and the AWD cost some mpg's as well.
The turbo kick in the WRX was a thrill but to be honest the tdi is as fun to drive and the diesel torque is much more usable for my type of driving anyway.  Very happy with the purchase so far.



mbcijim said:


> So I bought my first new car a few weeks ago. It is a Volkswagon Jetta TDI model, which means it's diesel. I put 1,200 miles on it so far. My average MPG is 43.8. I wanted a stick but the dealer swore that they don't get better mileage anymore, that technology has changed and they are roughly equal in MPG.
> 
> My first reaction to the high MPG is 1) I am never, ever going back even with $2.00/gallon gas, 2) We are all talking about hybrid, electric, when the volkswagon diesel is a very good solution right here right now that works.
> 
> Some other things that surprised me was no emissions testing is necessary (at least in Pennsylvania where I live) and that oil changes are every year or 10,000 miles, whichever comes first. Both are nice selling points although very minor in the scope of things.


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## TMonter (May 24, 2012)

3fordasho said:


> I've had my 2012 Jetta sportwagen tdi for about a month now, almost a 1000 miles on it. First new car purchase in 35years of driving. Mine has the 6 speed and the epa estimates put the MPG maybe 1-2mpg better than the DSG (auto) version. I've been pleasantly suprised to see 38-39mpg in town driving, a vast improvement over the 20mpg (in town) I was getting in my Subaru WRX. The WRX was quite a bit smaller inside and the AWD cost some mpg's as well.
> The turbo kick in the WRX was a thrill but to be honest the tdi is as fun to drive and the diesel torque is much more usable for my type of driving anyway. Very happy with the purchase so far.


 
I'm sure having to use premium in the WRX didn't help the costs either.


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## nate379 (May 24, 2012)

Funny I sold a 300+ hp WRX with an STI motor about 2 years ago for my diesel Jetta. The WRX was a blast to drive but it only got about 22-23mpg on sumpreme fuel. The Jetta doesn't have the same power, but it still gets along ok and I'm not complaing about 45mpg either!

I did end up "replacing" the WRX this year with a Lotus Elise which gets close to 30mpg and can run on reg fuel if need be.

As far as the diesel trucks, I have owned several over the years (never owned a gas truck actually) and I've never paid much of a premium over a gas 3/4-1 ton truck of similar year.  Brand new the diesels are  though!
The one I have now is a 98 2500 Ram, it's got 225,000 miles and I haven't had to do too much work to it other than a couple alternators, rebuild the trans (given with an auto trans), and replace a few weeping gaskets/seals here and there.


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## MasterMech (May 24, 2012)

Wow, a Lotus in Alaska?!    Get any stares with that?


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## nate379 (May 24, 2012)

Yeah just a few. Lot of people think it's some top dollar supercar, not a Toyota Corolla with some fancy fiberglass and aluminum.



MasterMech said:


> Wow, a Lotus in Alaska?!  Get any stares with that?


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## MasterMech (May 24, 2012)

I'll take a Corolla wearing a Lotus suit any day.


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