# New issue with Nashua stove, no draw, zero!



## rippinryno (Dec 14, 2015)

Hey guys, first off i want to say thanks for the help along the way.

I got home from work today and fired up the Nashua stove like i  usually do when it's cold.  Today it was 50 and windy.  I've burned the stove about 20 times this year without an issue, windy, cold, etc.  Today was a different story....

I stacked my kindling and put a little fire starter in there and let it start going, when i looked at it about 5 minutes later i saw smoke rolling out the door and the knobs on the front, the fire was going.  I opened the door and put some more kindling on to see if i could get a draw, still no go, smoke was rolling bad.  I opened all the windows and doors to ventilate so that i could shovel out the coals and wood that had begun to burn.  Once i got everything shoveled out into my metal bucket and outside i began to inspect the pipes.  I pulled the chimney cap and everything look good, i pulled the T cap and look up the pipe and it's all good.  I pulled the stove pipe off of the back of the stove and made sure that was clear all the way through the wall.  Then i inspected the stove itself to make sure there were not obstructions.  Everything looks good.  I will note that on the outside of my building I only have 2 sections after the T.  MY install goes up inside the building about 5-6ft, into an elbow, through the wall, and to a T where it then goes up 2 sections.  As i mentioned I have never had an issue with draw before today. 

Any ideas what could cause this?  Do i need to run another vertical section outside in order to prevent this?

No matter what i did, i could not get the stove to draw and burn, it was just a smoking like a chimney, except not out the chimney!


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## saskwoodburner (Dec 14, 2015)

I'll let someone else address the pipe issue (if any), but mild temperatures and wind can both play havock on your stoves draft. An east wind in mild weather is really hard for me to fight through to establish draft. Maybe you have such a problem?


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## rippinryno (Dec 14, 2015)

we definitely have an east wind, and the pressures are really low, it's unseasonably warm here with extra humidity, but dang!  I'm gonna go ahead and buy another section of pipe just to ease my mind, i need a new cap anyway so might as well try.


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## BrotherBart (Dec 14, 2015)

So that folks know what we are working with here, from what I gather from this and other threads you have 5-6' of single wall pipe into a 90 degree elbow to single wall pipe through the wall to a tee with eight feet of single wall stovepipe exterior chimney. Right?


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## rippinryno (Dec 14, 2015)

BrotherBart said:


> So that folks know what we are working with here, from what I gather from this and other threads you have 5-6' of single wall pipe into a 90 degree elbow to single wall pipe through the wall to a tee with eight feet of single wall stovepipe exterior chimney. Right?


That is incorrect.  I'm using class A through the wall.

Any info on my original question as to why I am not getting any draw anymore?  I'm new to stoves and as mentioned this is an all the sudden problem for me.  I've done some searching and most people are saying that mild temperatures and pressures can do this, I'm just glad it wasn't in my house or else I would have slept with the windows open!


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## rippinryno (Dec 14, 2015)




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## saskwoodburner (Dec 14, 2015)

rippinryno said:


> we definitely have an east wind, and the pressures are really low, it's unseasonably warm here with extra humidity, but dang!  I'm gonna go ahead and buy another section of pipe just to ease my mind, i need a new cap anyway so might as well try.



 Just to clarify, an east wind may neither help nor hinder your own situation. I was speaking to my location specifically.


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## rippinryno (Dec 15, 2015)

I understand, just trying to gather some causes for the sudden issue I experienced.  Thanks.


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## rippinryno (Dec 15, 2015)

Well, i think i figured out the problem fellas.  I lit the stove this morning, not a single issue.  I believe that yesterday with the humidity and warmer temps in the building, the air was just too dang dense.  This morning it fired up, immediately started a draw and burned fine, it's burning normal right now and we're up to 70 degrees in the building.  I learned this the hard way but will from now on pay attention to humidity, outside temp, and pressures.  I am surprised only one person was able to pin point that, but am glad he mentioned it.  The good thing is, i've got a clean stove now that i took the shop vac to every nook and crany where ash would settle.  I believe with this particular stove that the flu draft may be harder to obtain since it does not simply burn straight up into a chimney, it burns up a at an angle and then has to make a hairpin turn directly to the back where the stove vents.  that might be something that caused the difficulty of getting it going so it's slightly more picky than others. the lesson learned is don't light the stove if it's above 45 degrees and humid as hell!


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## DougA (Dec 15, 2015)

I've read on the forum that two 90 deg elbows is equal to losing 3' off the top of your chimney in terms of draft effectiveness.  Your experience on one occasion will probably be repeated again. Adding more chimney will help.  Putting more volatile items in your kindling when you have bad draft will also help. That does not mean gas, just more paper and more thin, dry kindling that burns faster/hotter.  Getting a fast, hot fire is the difference.


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## rippinryno (Dec 15, 2015)

I'm going to put the new section and new cap on when it cools down.  It's not a bull section but will add a couple ft.  I also spent an hour this morning preparing several rubbermaids of dry kindling....yes i cheated and used the log splitter lol.


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## DougA (Dec 15, 2015)

rippinryno said:


> i cheated and used the log splitter lol


That may actually be your problem.  For really great kindling, I have to use a small hatchet and then you get stuff that burns instantly.  It's a great idea to keep some containers of this ready when needed. Even though I burn 24/7, it just has not been cold enough yet to do that and I'm burning in the evenings only.  I'm going through more kindling than ever right now. My dogs are telling me it's too hot in the house. Ya, I've got strange dogs.


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## rippinryno (Dec 15, 2015)

I'm with you, I had several boxes full of kindling, but have used it all already!


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## jb6l6gc (Dec 15, 2015)

rippinryno said:


> Well, i think i figured out the problem fellas.  I lit the stove this morning, not a single issue.  I believe that yesterday with the humidity and warmer temps in the building, the air was just too dang dense.  This morning it fired up, immediately started a draw and burned fine, it's burning normal right now and we're up to 70 degrees in the building.  I learned this the hard way but will from now on pay attention to humidity, outside temp, and pressures.  I am surprised only one person was able to pin point that, but am glad he mentioned it.  The good thing is, i've got a clean stove now that i took the shop vac to every nook and crany where ash would settle.  I believe with this particular stove that the flu draft may be harder to obtain since it does not simply burn straight up into a chimney, it burns up a at an angle and then has to make a hairpin turn directly to the back where the stove vents.  that might be something that caused the difficulty of getting it going so it's slightly more picky than others. the lesson learned is don't light the stove if it's above 45 degrees and humid as hell!


 
Ya draft reversal sometimes isn't fun. Keep an eye out on warmer days. When you open stove you may feel it. I know when mine does I know before I
Light it.  Try holding a long piece of
Paper like a torch inside stove toward flue to warm it
Up first ad reverse draft 9
Times outta 10 works for me!


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## rippinryno (Dec 15, 2015)

Thanks guys appreciate the help!  Sounds like I need to buy a good hatchet any recommendations?


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## DougA (Dec 15, 2015)

The ones I bought on sale for 5 bucks work just fine.


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## bholler (Dec 15, 2015)

So to sum it up it was bad environmental conditions that made your really really bad setup even worse.  You are going to have problems with that setup till you fix it.  Or until it burns your garage down.


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## jb6l6gc (Dec 16, 2015)

totally didn't realize this was the garage setup single wall stove pipe chimney guy from the creosote blockage thread ! LMAO


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## rippinryno (Dec 16, 2015)

bholler said:


> So to sum it up it was bad environmental conditions that made your really really bad setup even worse.  You are going to have problems with that setup till you fix it.  Or until it burns your garage down.


What problems?  This is the only issue I have had and I think I found out why.  Otherwise everything is working great so why do you say I'm going to have problems and burn it down?


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## bholler (Dec 16, 2015)

rippinryno said:


> What problems? This is the only issue I have had and I think I found out why. Otherwise everything is working great so why do you say I'm going to have problems and burn it down?


short chimney is going to have tempermental draft.  Uninsulated outside pipe has allot of potential for creosote buildup and make the draft issues worse.  Which leads to potential chimney fires.  which due to the unsafe installation of stove pipe not chimney could very well lead to a structure fire. It is pretty straight forward and why we have fire and building codes that dissallow things like this.


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## rippinryno (Dec 16, 2015)

I've lengthened the chimney so it's nearly 15ft outside now.  While my outside pipe has potential for creosote buildup.....so far there is none.  I am watching things and often pop open the tee for inspection.  I do appreciate the concern though.

While single wall is not up to code and not a professional job, I plan to use it this winter.  I will update this here thread with photos of the pipe when the winter is done.  If it gets bad I will post photos of that as well.  I tend to pull the T cap at least once a week and look up the pipe, if at any point i see an absurd amount of creosote, or even a little, i will update.  This is not to recommend anybody use this method, it's to simply give results of using black pipe outside, something that has been done for decades prior to strict code and regulation.  Again, I will use my thread here to show the effects it has on my setup, postive or negative, I will share.


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## rippinryno (Dec 16, 2015)

here it is in action.


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## jb6l6gc (Dec 16, 2015)

Nice looking unit!


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## begreen (Dec 16, 2015)

rippinryno said:


> I've lengthened the chimney so it's nearly 15ft outside now.  While my outside pipe has potential for creosote buildup.....so far there is none.  I am watching things and often pop open the tee for inspection.  I do appreciate the concern though.
> 
> While single wall is not up to code and not a professional job, I plan to use it this winter.  I will update this here thread with photos of the pipe when the winter is done.  If it gets bad I will post photos of that as well.  I tend to pull the T cap at least once a week and look up the pipe, if at any point i see an absurd amount of creosote, or even a little, i will update.  This is not to recommend anybody use this method, it's to simply give results of using black pipe outside, something that has been done for decades prior to strict code and regulation.  Again, I will use my thread here to show the effects it has on my setup, postive or negative, I will share.


People had wooden chimneys at one point too, for decades. That didn't make them safe or correct. It's been a long time since single-wall indoor stove pipe was allowed for an exterior chimney. The problem with broadcasting an illegal install is that a fool is sure to follow. It may have been ok for great grandpa but it is not ok now.


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## rippinryno (Dec 16, 2015)

As I said I am not recommending it and don't call me a fool.  Great Grandpa?  Try about 5 people in their 30s some of which live in town!  It's more common than you think I'm afraid....does that make it up to code?  No. Do I condone it?  No.  Can it work yup


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## begreen (Dec 16, 2015)

Prolly can find 5 people driving on bald tires in the same neighborhood. It gets one from point a to b, for a while, but this doesn't make it right or safe.


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## rippinryno (Dec 16, 2015)

Yup good point ....it's not right according to code but can work and if you take the time to inspect often you very much lesson the chance of s chimney fire. Ya know I've got a mower with a cracked deck a truck that drips oil on the manifold and an old suv with bald tires....that's no joke either.


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## bholler (Dec 16, 2015)

rippinryno said:


> Yup good point ....it's not right according to code but can work and if you take the time to inspect often you very much lesson the chance of s chimney fire.


What about a structure fire simply from heat transfer?  And you do realize that a chimney fire can happen from a couple days buildup don't you?   I understand people do it quite a bit but that does not make it safe.  People also clean their chimneys by burning them out,  run single wall through floors,  run slammers ect ect all of which are very dangerous but they get away with it.  Untill they dont anymore.  I cant say when or if that will happen to you but I am not willing to take that chance


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## claydogg84 (Dec 16, 2015)

begreen and bholler, you're both wasting your breath. This man didn't come to these forums to learn anything, period.


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## Lake Girl (Dec 16, 2015)

rippinryno said:


> As I said I am not recommending it and don't call me a fool.  Great Grandpa?  Try about 5 people in their 30s some of which live in town!  It's more common than you think I'm afraid....does that make it up to code?  No. Do I condone it?  No.  Can it work yup


And if this go array and you burn down your garage, cause determination will mean you will lose any insurance value on structure or contents...


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## rippinryno (Dec 17, 2015)

bholler said:


> What about a structure fire simply from heat transfer?  And you do realize that a chimney fire can happen from a couple days buildup don't you?   I understand people do it quite a bit but that does not make it safe.  People also clean their chimneys by burning them out,  run single wall through floors,  run slammers ect ect all of which are very dangerous but they get away with it.  Untill they dont anymore.  I cant say when or if that will happen to you but I am not willing to take that chance


I've not seen enough to consider build up as a problem.  Also none of my pipe has been hot enough to the touch to consider transfer to a fire.  If that is what you mean?  I wouldn't be running single wall through anything I do have the distance from combustibles.


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## rippinryno (Dec 17, 2015)

claydogg84 said:


> begreen and bholler, you're both wasting your breath. This man didn't come to these forums to learn anything, period.


I think you were warned once about trolling me.  I'm here to learn.  Just because I give my setup and specifically state that it's not up to code.....does not mean I'm not here to learn.  I am.  Am I going to instantly stop burning?  No.  That doesn't mean I'm not aware of my risks and choosing to burn anyway.  Just like driving z car with bald tires....I'm aware.  If I saw heavy buildup in my pipes I would instantly stop.


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## Lake Girl (Dec 17, 2015)

rippinryno said:


> I think you were warned once about trolling me.


As you were warned also ...

bholler has been in the industry a long time so I would respect what he says.  Did you notice the date on begreen's avatar?  I would suspect he's been heating his home with wood far longer...  So if you are here to learn, don't blow off what they say.

The point was made that the outside pipes *need to maintain a specific flue gas temperature to avoid creosote formation * ... the reason for the insulated exterior pipe.  The insulated pipe that you could have bought (instead of another length of uninsulated) would also help in maintaining draft.  We all appreciate budget constraints but when it comes to safety of your family, home/garage, and your local fire fighters - blatant disregard of building codes is not acceptable.

One last thing ... woodstoves in Canada have to be 18" off the floor in a garage (WETT certification based on CSA).  Not sure if they are allowed in the US so you likely have voided your homeowners insurance.


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## rippinryno (Dec 17, 2015)

Lake Girl said:


> As you were warned also ...
> 
> bholler has been in the industry a long time so I would respect what he says.  Did you notice the date on begreen's avatar?  I would suspect he's been heating his home with wood far longer...  So if you are here to learn, don't blow off what they say.
> 
> ...


Do you see me quoting him and addressing him negatively?  I took the warning and obeyed it.  I don't appreciate you standing up for him after he once again struggles to leave me alone.

I have already acknowledged the points you make and am well aware of them.  In my area stoves are allowed in garages with no floor height required this is something I did ask about.

Again I do appreciate all the advice and warnings please don't act as if I do not.


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## Lake Girl (Dec 17, 2015)

Has your state/town adopted  NFPA 211?  Please note 
"13.2.3 Solid fuel burning appliances shall not be installed in any location where gasoline or other flammable vapors or gases are present."
"13.2.4 Solid fuel burning appliances shall not be installed in any garage."
http://www.nfpa.org/codes-and-standards/document-information-pages?mode=code&code=211


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## rippinryno (Dec 17, 2015)

I would imagine they have


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## begreen (Dec 17, 2015)

This thread has played itself out. It's not helping anyone.


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