# fluorescent flood lights



## struggle (Jan 27, 2009)

I have installed six fluorescent flood lights in my recessed can lights in my kitchen and three of them have burned out prematurely. They where more costly to buy than the old style bulbs and the flood lights 100watt that I took out I put in the garage overhead sockets and they still work. I was progressing to replacing all lights with CFLs well now that these did not last. I am not on board with buying more only to pay more to spend less money on power.

Any suggestions? THe can lights are in the envelope of the house meaning they are in the ceiling but rather below it but dry walled in place.  

Should I just go back to the old style light until leds improve more? Anything else new that could work in the cans that can put out 1-120 watts of light?


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## Highbeam (Jan 27, 2009)

I use the outdoor fkourescent flood lights that sound similar to what you used. They take a long time to warm up but produce excellent quality light even in the cold with great life.

I suspect you bought 6 crappy lights. Maybe the brand, maybe the batch. 

CFLs do not have a longer life than incandescents. It's a myth.


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## jebatty (Jan 27, 2009)

I've used fluorescent flood lights in our ceiling cans for 12 years. For 10 of those years 2 of the cans were "on" at least 8 hours/day, likely more, as they lit the space over the in-home office. During that time one burned out after about 8 years and the second after 11 years. Also replaced the incandescent floods in the ceiling cans in our bedroom (6 cans). Those have been in place for 2 years now, no burn-outs. Have four cans in our kitchen with the pin plug-in tube fluorescents. Those have been in place for 12 years. No burn-outs. Have replaced all possible incandescent bulbs in the house with CFL's (only not replaced are lights on dimmers). Occasionally I will get a bad CFL. But I've also had incandescent bulbs that burned out quickly. CFL's are now down to about $1/bulb on sale at big box stores. Seems to me a no-brainer to use them.


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## velvetfoot (Jan 27, 2009)

I've had a couple burn out.
If you don't mind the look, the cheap little curly cues put out pretty good light in a can.


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## Highbeam (Jan 27, 2009)

My cans have the cheap little curly ones in them. The cans are eyball aimable ones and the "short-n-curlies" don't aim that well since they have no reflector but other than that, they work great. Oh, and since the lense in gone, you can look into the can and read the warning labels.


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## dumbodog00 (Jan 27, 2009)

I believe some CFLs are labeled for use in recessed lighting.  I have heard what happens is the heat that is produced is too much for the bulb.  I know some are labeled for use in particular applications.


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## struggle (Jan 27, 2009)

I will check on the labeling next time I am at Menard's for application. These were maybe one year old. We have lived in the house for 11+ years and still have some of the original Am-Way bulbs the previous owner installed over 11 years ago. 

Led flood lights are very pricey from what I found $4-50 for one light, ouch.

They are in recessed cans with out covers (just trim rings) so they use the traditional flood light style bulb.


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## semipro (Jan 27, 2009)

I use lots of CFLs in various applications. The floods do take a while to warm up but light well.  Its too soon to say they last a long time.  I've had mixed luck with CFLs in that some have lasted many years with lots of use and others have died rather quickly.  Maybe there's a quality difference between the brands but I've yet to find any not made in China.


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## wenger7446 (Jan 28, 2009)

You need to buy and use CFLs are designed for use in recessed lighting fixtures.   The ballasts in CFLs that are *not *designed for use in recessed lighting fixtures cannot handle the heat. (the heat rises into the ballasts and heat soaks them where if used in a standard lamp the heat from the light would rise away from the ballast)

The ballast is in the in the base of the CFL.


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## seige101 (Jan 28, 2009)

I also heard and read somewhere, that CFLs used in locations where they are switched on and off numerous time a day that they will not last as long. Something about leaving them on for aproximentaly 30 mins or so. I will see if can dig up where i read that, may of been consumer reports.


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## wenger7446 (Jan 28, 2009)

seige101 said:
			
		

> I also heard and read somewhere, that CFLs used in locations where they are switched on and off numerous time a day that they will not last as long. Something about leaving them on for aproximentaly 30 mins or so. I will see if can dig up where i read that, may of been consumer reports.



This is also true.  CFL work best when used in areas whey they can be left on.

Also, I forget to mention, buy a good quality bulb.....don't go cheap.


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## Redox (Jan 28, 2009)

I have used a number of CFLs over the years and have mixed results on their longevity.  I have some GEs that are hitting 8 years with no problems, and I have a few Sylvanias and L-O-A that didn't last a year.  I have started to date them to get some real numbers.

I bought some of the reflector floods for the kitchen, but didn't like the color.  I moved them around and they are now in the front porch cans.  The extra glass helps keep them warm.  I have been using the twist style lights for a couple years in the cans in the kitchen without any overheat problems.  It might be shortening their lifespan to burn them base up, but not much.  There is a little more wasted light up in the can, but a white baffle really helps get the most light down to the room.  You can adjust the base down to get the tube into the baffle and it acts pretty much just like a reflector.  I don't think they look bad at all.

Chris


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## semipro (Jan 28, 2009)

Chris, 
Great idea on dating the newly installed bulbs.  I'm just retentive enough to do something like that myself... and plan to.


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## peakbagger (Jan 28, 2009)

When you buy CFL's make sure they are energy star rated. The early CFL's got a bad rep for a lot of good reasons, so the energy star rating was  revised to require a minimum quality level. Non energy star bulbs typically are of lower quality. Lights of America bulbs and equipment are usually not associated with the term "quality". They tend to be sold to retail outlets and compete at lowest cost for the retailers rather than to any quality standard.  Generally a spec grade from a distributor is better quality, but more expensive.


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## karl (Jan 29, 2009)

I thought I was the only one crazy enough to date the bulbs.  I haven't had much luck with them at all.  My first experience was puting then in my outdoor lights.  These are ones I leave on for hours at a time.  Three bulbs and I think one of them made it a year.  I haven't had much luck with the indoor lights I have replaced either.  I'm thinking about opening up the circuitry on the burnt out ones and seeing if that's the problem.  I have 8 foot tubes in the kitchen.  I get atleast a few years out of those.  I think these screw in ones just have cheap ballasts.


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## eba1225 (Jan 30, 2009)

I had gone out an bough a "name brand" CFL for use in my Kitchen can, thought I'd try a sinlge bulb before taking the plunge on 10.  Since they are on a dimmer I bought the dimmable type of CFL.  The package state they are Guaranteed for 6 years....well it died after 6 months.  (Guess they haven't perfected this technology yet.)

I contacted the manufacturer and they sent me a full refuund.

I am using other CFL's in other non-dimmable applications with little failure.  Been in use for over a year.

Erik


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## Ugly (Jan 30, 2009)

My entire house is CFL's and FL's with the only exception being my bedroom lamp which is Halogen (I have poor eyesight and need a very bright reading light, haven't found a CFL that I could comfortable read by yet). I've replaced two CFL's this running year. The first I broke with the vacuum cleaner when I was trying to vacuum the ceiling fan, the second burnt out in the bathroom (where there are four). The ones in the bathroom are the daylight temperature version (give off light in the degrees Kelvin range of natural sunlight) so the women can apply their makeup without it looking wierd (normal CFL's work mostly with a green and red spikes to emulate "white light"). As always you pretty much get what you pay for. The bargain twirlys seem to burn out (the ones in my Dad's store) but the expensive GE's I installed when we gutted the house (former cottage) five years ago are all still working with only the two exceptions I noted. The two outdoor flood lights are those really large ones that are wrapped in yellow plastic to not attract bugs and they are the same age. They are definitely slow to start in the cold weather and not much good on those motion detector switches. I might switch them to Halogen as well but Halogen burns out rapidly I find.

Regards,
Ugly


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## DBoon (Feb 1, 2009)

I usually buy the Philips compact flourescents and have never had one of those burn out in 6 months to a year.  I outfitted my condo with quality flourescents years ago and haven't had to replace any since.  I don't even bother with date coding.   When CFLs first came out, Osram/Sylvania were the best.  I still have some of old style non-twist Osram CFLs scattered around that house.  They are 20 years old!  Granted, they are not running 24/7, but a few of them are installed upside down in ceiling fixtures or in closets, with intermittent operation.  

The base of the modern CFLs contains an electronic ballast.  This ballast is a switching power supply that takes the 120V 60Hz AC power and converts it to appropriate voltage and many thousands of Hz.  This is a reasonably complicated electronic circuit that, if the manufacturer cuts corners, can fail early due to component failure, usually heat related.  Some manufacturers, no doubt, use more expensive components in their ballast and make more conservative estimates of mean time between failure for the entire ballast circuit.  Others don't.  The ones that do have to sell their products for more money to account for the higher cost of the components.  In addition, proper failure analysis and testing costs money, whereas a company that does neither one of these is unlikely to have the highest quality, most reliable ballast design.  

In addition, as with most things made in China, once the Chinese start manufacturing product under contract, there is a strong likelihood that they will make component substitutions without approval, which results in lower cost to them and higher failures for you.  Therefore, the quality level of the CFLs made in China will be related to how much the company maintains quality oversight over the Chinese manufacturing. 

So, for me, the bottom line is that I don't buy the 3/$3 packs of CFLs at Home Depot or WalMart - these are destined to fail early, in my opinion, since the product is cost-driven first and quality driven second.  Spend a few bucks more and get something that will work as advertised.


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## Redox (Feb 2, 2009)

Agreed on the name branding.  The mfr has a little more of a reputation to protect.  I guess the question is how much time and money do you want to put into a disposable ballast?  I just bought a couple packs of N:vision lamps from Lowes as these are being subsidized by our local utility and I want some of my money back.  I dated these and spread a few of them around the house to see how they will last.  I really don't expect them to last in the frequently switched places like the bathroom, but so far, no better or worse than the others.

Chris


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## struggle (Feb 20, 2009)

Just a short update on this. I was looking at recessed can cfl lights and clearly the one I bought were NOT for the application I was using them in and did find some that were specific to recessed can lighting. 

So thanks for the heads up on that. I never though about it and the last one to quit smelled burnt which is what other have said is happening with to much heat.  

I also am going to date them when installed on the ballast some where. That was a great idea from a poster in this thread.

THanks for all the info on this ;-P


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## begreen (Feb 20, 2009)

karl said:
			
		

> I thought I was the only one crazy enough to date the bulbs.  I haven't had much luck with them at all.  My first experience was puting then in my outdoor lights.  These are ones I leave on for hours at a time.  Three bulbs and I think one of them made it a year.  I haven't had much luck with the indoor lights I have replaced either.  I'm thinking about opening up the circuitry on the burnt out ones and seeing if that's the problem.  I have 8 foot tubes in the kitchen.  I get atleast a few years out of those.  I think these screw in ones just have cheap ballasts.



I've dated bulbs for several years. In our kitchen, where the recessed can lights stay on for hours, we are getting no more life out of the CFLs than the halogen bulbs they replaced. Energy consumption is about 60% less, but 2 years is about the top life span. I suspect the environmental impact for the CFLs is much greater than the simpler halogen bulbs. So is this a real improvement?


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## lecomte38 (Feb 20, 2009)

I have had some bad luck with the CFLs made in China.  Buy brand name American.  Also, they ar e guaranteed for  x?  years.  I have returned a few to Lowes.


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## whenley (Feb 20, 2009)

CFLs are a bit of a scam in many applications.  As mentioned above, the best use for FLs is in continuous operation applications.  Turn on transients are brutal on any type of fluorescent, especially the CFLs because the ballast technology is not as robust at the conventional long tube/heavy electronic ballast application.  Consider a decent electronic ballast for a conventional tube fluorescent costs on the order of $20-30.  But even the older tube fluorescents do not like a lot of off/on operation - it kills the lifetime.

When a fluorescent turns on it goes from a very high impedance state to a low impedance state within about the first 0.5 sec.  Cheap ballasts do not provide the proper matching network to compensate for this impedance change efficiently.  So the lamp - specifically the starter circuit is overstressed and fails.


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## TreePapa (Feb 20, 2009)

We've had CFLs from several different mfgs. in our (surface mount) ceiling light fixtures for several years with good results. I've only replaced a few CFLs, and none in the fixtures. One was in the garage, but it didn't burn out, it just didn't give much light. I replaced it with a newer "100 watt equivalent" "bright white" CFL and it works really well. And one or two were in lamps - they did burn out, but I think they were older or crappier CFLs to begin with. I no longer use CFLs in lamps (except for one 3-way in a floor lamp) 'cuz of the hassle involved in cleaning should they break (check it out at the EPA's webiste).

The only bulbs we have that aren't CFLs are: (a) in table lamps, for reason cited above; (b) in the one recessed fixture we have in the house, but I will be on the lookout for a dimmable CFL designed for sh**can lights (can you tell I don't like recessed lights?); and (c) in ceiling fans, as CFLs for celing fans are (1) expensive, and (2) not dimmable. Due to the vibration factor, I don't think good CFLs for ceiling fans are in the offering anytime soon. Oh yeah; I use long-life "vibration resistant" incandesents for the garage door opener light (separate from the garage light, which is just a plain surface mount on the joists. The other non-CFL lights are the 40-watt tubes in the kitchen, in 60 year old recessed fixtures (with newer "guts"). I'd like to change these out, but (1) too expensive right now, and (2) I haven't actually seen anything I like better (even 'tho I don't like the current fixtures much). The kitchen is a tough room for lighting.

Peace,
- Sequoia


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## struggle (Feb 23, 2009)

I date marked my first cfl today so it will be interesting to see how long it actually last. It is specific to recessed location. Time will tell on this one.


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