# Inexperienced Cutter Needs Advice



## firecracker_77 (Oct 11, 2012)

So, I'm really inexperienced at bucking logs. I have 2 sawhorses that I laid the wood on and cut relatively short pieces when possible as I'm splitting by hand and long splits drain my energy. I prefer to split on each whack with the axe.  I also believe, whether factual or a figment of my imagination, that small splits season quicker given the larger exposed surface area.

Anyhow, as I'm getting near the end of the cut, the bar becomes pinched and as the wood falls away, it makes contact with the chain and sends out sparks and in one case, the chain falls off and fortunately didn't harm me. That was due to me cutting too long on a new chain without checking tension. Won't happen again...I'm very leery of saws in general. I picture my leg as a piece of tender flesh and that chain ripping through like a hot knife on butter. Fear is a good thing when dealing with deadly tools.

So, do I need to roll the wood near the end of the cut to avoid this? The wood is falling inwards towards the bar. One solution would be to get rid of the saw horses or cut to the outside of either the left or right support. I was cutting between. Problem is, some of my logs aren't long enough to avoid this unless I ditch the sawhorse and support them off the ground in some other way.

I saw a handy system that mounts the saw towards the outside and you pivot the saw down into the wood. This supports the wood underneath and doesn't pinch during the cut. Instead, gravity drops the unsupported cut piece. That cost $179, and I didn't want to spend any more money today. I have a second stove to install yet this winter and that's going to be about $2k likely for materials and labor.


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## mtneer (Oct 11, 2012)

I'm still new myself, and that fear you describe is still somewhat fresh in my mind. You'll gain confidence as you use the saw. It will become just another tool, but never lose a healthy respect for the saw and let safety slip.

I would not bother buying any fancy cutting aids unless you have a physical issue. I used a sawhorse a few times when I first tried my saw. I made the mistake of buying a timberjack. I only used it a handful of times since they don't hold much weight and need level ground. For log bucking, I lay a log on level ground and I mark off my split lengths with a tape measure and hand saw along the entire length of the log. Then I cut into my marks about 2/3 of the way through. Flip the log over and repeat.It's worked for me.


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## Gark (Oct 11, 2012)

Yup - what mtneer said. Leave the log on the ground. Cut 2/3 through, roll log over and finish cut(s). Less heavy lifting.


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## JP11 (Oct 11, 2012)

First off..

Are you wearing kevlar chaps?
A proper helmet with face, and ear protection?

I've had pretty good luck leaving a few pieces of junk logs on the ground, and putting my logs on top of them perpendicular.  I can cut a PILE of logs and just roll the rounds off the pile as I go.  Then your rounds are supported as they are cut.  Sure, you will cut some gouges in  the lower ones, but who cares?

Doing this... the lowest logs that are against the "sleepers" can fall and hit the ground, but if you cut up from the bottom on the very last row, you can keep your chain from the dirt.

Chainsaws are NASTY tools.  They deserve a ton of respect.  Treat it like you would treat a loaded gun.  Watch some safety videos online.

JP


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## Wood Duck (Oct 11, 2012)

If you are cutting between the supports, finish the cut from the bottom. Whenever you cut with a chainsaw you have to be aware which direction the log will bend as the cut nears completion. This holds true when cutting logs or when cutting standing trees or branches. Another option is to place a smaller pole in the crotch of the sawhorse to support the log. You'll want to pay attention so you don't cut through the pole every time, but assuming the pole is just another piece of firewood, then it isn't too big a deal if you cut thorugh it. It is better than cutting through a log into the dirt and dulling your chain.

As others have said, another option is cutting on the ground, or even better cutting a pile of logs so the log you're working on is supported by other logs. Don't try to cut the whole way through the log from the top down - you will hit the dirt more often than not. I use a sawbuck sometimes because it is nice to cut a few feet above ground level.


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## ScotO (Oct 11, 2012)

The other guys pretty much hit the nail on the head. Biggest thing is to look at the log you're cutting to see where the leverage points are. If the log is supported at both ends, its gonna pinch your bar when you try to cut through it. So in situations where you gotta cut like that (or when the log is laying on the ground), only cut down throuht the log 2/3rds or so, roll the log over and finish the cut. When cutting on a stack of logs (such as when they are delivered in a grapple truck) watch cutting multiple logs because if the nose of the bar touches a log that you cannot see, you could have major kickback issue.


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## Wood Duck (Oct 11, 2012)

You say you're cutting short lengths, which is fine, but I'd try to cut relatively uniform short lengths. I don't necessarily try to cut the longest piece my stove will take, but I try to cut most of the pieces the same length, which makes loading the stove and stacking the wood a little easier. For a long time I used the bar on my "16 inch" chainsaw to measure the length of each piece. An embarrasingly long time after I started that I measured the bar and found it is about 14 1/2 inches long, so I have a ton of wood shorter than my stove will allow. I still cut wood the same length because I am used to it. When I load the stove I push the 14 inch splits ot one side and load the remaining space with short lengths, loaded front to back (north/south as they say on this forum)


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## smokinj (Oct 11, 2012)

You should not be using saw horse's in the first place. Seems they must be smaller as your getting them on the horse.


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## Jags (Oct 11, 2012)

Add additional center supports to your horse (if you choose to stick with that method). Additional supports will not allow the log to drop and pinch.

And by all means - please wear your PPE (personal protection equip.). At a minimum I would suggest a pair of chainsaw chaps. I won't fire up the saw without them in place.


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## firecracker_77 (Oct 11, 2012)

I have eyeware and gloves. 

At the dealer, I can pick up chaps for $89.  I told the guy yesterday, I plan on getting those.  $89 is way cheaper than $100,000 medical bill.

I like the idea of bucking on the ground and rolling the logs.  For the little ones up in the air, I can cut 2/3rd and then come from the bottom.

I cut only near the dogs.  I stay away from the tip of the saw as that kickback is something I never want to experience.  I need a saw buck like that sweet one pictured above.

I like the idea of cutting the wood in a pile but I'm a little uneasy given that logs can roll and I want my feet flat on the ground.  I'll stick with the logs on the ground and roll them at 2/3rd through.  That seems the safest bet for now.


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## golfandwoodnut (Oct 11, 2012)

As you gain experience you can keep an eye on the log. I know when a log is suspended like that, or even on the ground when it is in the air, that it will want to pinch the bar as it reaches the end. I like to find a log up in the air, as it makes for easy cutting (if you are careful). I watch for the log getting ready to move, remove the bar and finish from the bottom (and there is very little fear of kickback from the bottom as the log protects you). Whe rolling the log, I will cut several pieces to length 3/4's of the way through then roll the log and finish them all at once. Dennis loves the cant hook for rolling the logs, I have not bought one yet but could see the benefit. Normally I will get the log to a reasonable size and just push it over when needed. I did build a sawhorse for small branches that I can cut straight down and do several at the same time without fear (it is an H style). I do not have a picture handy but will to try to find a link.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/my-h-style-sawbuck-holds-alot-of-wood.61191/


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## new_wood (Oct 11, 2012)

It can be a little unsettling at first but over time you will feel more comfortable about it......and if possible always let someone know that you are cutting wood or cut and split with a buddy.


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## mudbug250 (Oct 11, 2012)

I agree with what everyone above has said.  One thing that has helped me is a couple of plastic felling wedges.  When a log it too big to roll, I cut halfway or 2/3 through the log then just pop a wedge in the cut.  As I get close to the ground, I let off the saw and cut in short burst until I cut completely through, so I can minimize the chain in the dirt. My next purchase will be a pry bar so I can roll those big logs.


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## PapaDave (Oct 11, 2012)

I hate the bending over to cut on the ground, but also don't like the idea of having to lift 8' logs onto a sawbuck.......no matter how small they are.......I could spend that time and energy cutting.
The rounds fall back on the ground where I have to pick them back up. Why do it twice.
Leave 'em on the ground and cut part way through, then roll and finish cut works well for me.


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## bogydave (Oct 11, 2012)

PapaDave said:


> Leave 'em on the ground and cut part way through, then roll and finish cut works well for me.


 
+1


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## Eric Johnson (Oct 11, 2012)

Here's a couple of safety tips, in addition to wearing a hardhat with face screen or glasses, steel-toed or kevlar-lined (even better) boots, and kevlar chaps or safety pants:

* Park your pickup headed out of the woodlot and leave the keys in it.
* If your work area is not visible from the road, use surveyor tape to flag out the entrance
* Always carry a cell phone on your person (you can't call 911 if you're pinned under a tree and the phone is in the truck).
* When the tree begins to fall, back or walk quickly away from the falling tree in a diagonal direction
* Never walk away from a tree that won't fall--either because it's hung up or it sets back on your saw
* Make sure your truck is at least two tree lengths away from any tree you're falling
* If working with someone else, know where each other is working at all times.

There's a lot more, but these seven items are a good start.


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## firecracker_77 (Oct 11, 2012)

How long would it take you to use 1.8 gallons of 2 stroke mixed gas?  I made the mistake of buying a little too much last night.  Looks like my Toro snow blower will be getting some Stihl synthetic 2 stroke gas mix this winter.  I want it all used up within 6 months.


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## firecracker_77 (Oct 11, 2012)

Eric Johnson said:


> Here's a couple of safety tips, in addition to wearing a hardhat with face screen or glasses, steel-toed or kevlar-lined (even better) boots, and kevlar chaps or safety pants:
> 
> * Park your pickup headed out of the woodlot and leave the keys in it.
> * If your work area is not visible from the road, use surveyor tape to flag out the entrance
> ...


 
That's great advice.  Thanks...for future reference.

Some of this can be applied if you're out bucking logs even.  The cell phone...the safety gear...the fact that others will check up on you if they don't hear from you.  Having your emergeny plan in case you are injured.


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## FireBones (Oct 11, 2012)

Keep the safety tips coming guys.... I am a brand new cutter also, and this is gold! What strategy do you guys use to cut an entire tree freshly felled into the more reasonable size logs?


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## smokinj (Oct 11, 2012)

FireBones said:


> Keep the safety tips coming guys.... I am a brand new cutter also, and this is gold! What strategy do you guys use to cut an entire tree freshly felled into the more reasonable size logs?


 




Grab a big saw Eyes ears leg
and head feet  protection and a wedge. This was was a little to heavy for sawbuck.


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## Eric Johnson (Oct 11, 2012)

FireBones said:


> Keep the safety tips coming guys.... I am a brand new cutter also, and this is gold! What strategy do you guys use to cut an entire tree freshly felled into the more reasonable size logs?


 
I start at the stump and start cutting 24-inch blocks until the branches are too small to bother with. Oftentimes, the top part of the tree will hold the trunk up off the ground, so so you can cut the blocks without worrying about running the bar into the ground. When it's laying flat on the ground, sometimes you have to mark off blocks until you find a good place to make the cut, then go back and cut the previous ones by partially cutting then rolling, etc.


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## FireBones (Oct 11, 2012)

Eric Johnson said:


> Here's a couple of safety tips, in addition to wearing a hardhat with face screen or glasses, steel-toed or kevlar-lined (even better) boots, and kevlar chaps or safety pants:
> 
> * Park your pickup headed out of the woodlot and leave the keys in it.
> * If your work area is not visible from the road, use surveyor tape to flag out the entrance
> ...


 
In the event that the tree does indeed fall back and wedge the saw I assume a wedge and slegde will sufice to free it up? If the tree did indeed fall back when closing in on the hinge is it safe to say its not going to fall in the direction it was intended to?


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## Jags (Oct 11, 2012)

FireBones said:


> In the event that the tree does indeed fall back and wedge the saw I assume a wedge and slegde will sufice to free it up? If the tree did indeed fall back when closing in on the hinge is it safe to say its not going to fall in the direction it was intended to?


 
First and foremost - put those wedges to work BEFORE you get pinched up. Also, they are called felling wedges for a reason - they can assist in directing where the tree is gonna drop and give a little push in the right direction.


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## Eric Johnson (Oct 11, 2012)

FireBones said:


> In the event that the tree does indeed fall back and wedge the saw I assume a wedge and slegde will sufice to free it up? If the tree did indeed fall back when closing in on the hinge is it safe to say its not going to fall in the direction it was intended to?


 
You should always set a wedge in the groove when you get, say, 1/2 to 2/3 of the way through the cut. Basically, do it when there's enough room to get the wedge in without hitting it with the saw. That way, it won't set back on your saw. If you don't use a wedge and it does set back on your saw, there's usually no way to get a wedge in. And even if you could, it's probably not going to do much to help you. So, use a wedge even if you don't think you'll need one, because you'll sure wish you did if you do.

Set-back trees are pretty dangerous. The best way to deal with one of those is to get another saw and make another felling cut above your saw to drop the tree where it wants to go. Yes, this means leaving the scene to find another saw. Don't put yourself in that situation.

You can do a lot with a wedge, but it's not going to put a big tree where it doesn't want to go. What I do is eyeball the lean of the tree, then figure out the best place to aim it in that general direction. Life is full of compromises. It's usually wise to compromise with something as big as a tree.

While we're on the topic, if there are smaller trees and saplings growing where you want this tree to fall, cut them down first, because they can become spring poles (bent over saplings under stress) which are very dangerous to work around. You want to create the safest working environment you can.


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## CT-Mike (Oct 11, 2012)

Have to give a +1 to the PPE. I still need to buy a pair of the kevlar boots, will get those before any more cutting. Someone in an early post mentioned marking off the log with a tape. I find it much easier to just cut a small twig to the length I want the rounds (20" in my case). I lay it on the log and get a visual fix, then hold it in my left hand parallel to the top handle and just squeeze. Holds the twig fine, and doesn't impair control of the saw if it is small enough.

Make the cut, and then lather, rinse, and repeat.


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## Eric Johnson (Oct 11, 2012)

I measure with the saw. After awhile, it becomes second nature.


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## Thistle (Oct 11, 2012)

Been using saws since I was 15,felling trees since I was 17.Over 30 yrs. Even now I feel the hair on my neck stand up when I start to drop a big one.You should never lose your respect for certain things or act in a careless manner no matter how much experience you might have.That's when accidents happen.I've had a couple close calls ( few hangups,a small barber chair or two & a pinched bar) but nothing that endangered me,others,any property/equipment. You learn from any mistakes & do what you can to prevent any in the future.

Wedges are a must IMO,both in felling & bucking.Sawbucks are great for rounds/poles up to 8" - 10" diameter also.Much easier for me to carry out 3 to 9 ft poles,load trailer or pickup & cut them on sawbuck later then constantly be leaning over cutting 1 piece at a time then have to bend over AGAIN to pick up & carry 4-5 times as many pieces to the trailer or pickup.


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## Backwoods Savage (Oct 11, 2012)

Not a lot to add to the above as there has been some great advice. However, one thing I would like to correct. It was said that folks fear the saw. If that is the case, you should never have a saw in your hands. Fear can indeed cause accidents to happen. Sort of like, what you say is what you get. One should never fear it but one needs to always respect it. Fear and respect are two different things.

Another, for rolling those logs that you cut on the ground a cant hook is one of the best things you can own. Also on cutting the log and where to start. I never know where I will start bucking until that tree is on the ground. Then many times you will see a section of the butt that is off the ground and that is a great place to start cutting. Then you end up with a log that might be anywhere from 6' to 12' or even longer. Again, you cut down from above but not so far that you pinch the saw and finish the cut from underneath. Also, think tension. Look at the log or tree and consider where tension will be when you start cutting. And as  Eric mentioned, when the tree is falling, don't walk directly behind where the tree is falling nor walk at a 90 degree angle. Go back at an angle and don't dwaddle. This assumes you have made your escape path before you started cutting.


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## Flatbedford (Oct 11, 2012)

Get this book and read it cover to cover a few times.


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## CT-Mike (Oct 11, 2012)

Eric Johnson said:


> I measure with the saw. After awhile, it becomes second nature.


 
As I am usually cutting with a 20" bar on the MS361 I do this also, but prefer using the measured twig. I learned that from my father-in-law who had to quit school in the 10th grade and work for the local sawmill to help feed his family (oldest of 10 kids). He spent close to 50 years in the woods and I figure if it's good enough for him it's good enough for me.


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## xman23 (Oct 11, 2012)

Eric Johnson said:


> I start at the stump and start cutting 24-inch blocks until the branches are too small to bother with. Oftentimes, the top part of the tree will hold the trunk up off the ground, so so you can cut the blocks without worrying about running the bar into the ground. When it's laying flat on the ground, sometimes you have to mark off blocks until you find a good place to make the cut, then go back and cut the previous ones by partially cutting then rolling, etc.


 
Eric, I never tried starting at the bottom but I'll try it the next time. Here's what I do. Starting from the top I limb everthing not holding it off the ground. Working from the top down I buck anything hanging in the air. Being carefully to not let the main trunk land on the ground. I use a small floor jack to get under the trunk at the end to lift it as high as I can. Then block it up with logs as I buck toward the stump end.  The goal is to have every cut be a hanging piece, as well removeing weight working toward the heaviest end.  

Tom


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## MasterMech (Oct 12, 2012)

firecracker_77 said:


> So, I'm really inexperienced at bucking logs. I have 2 sawhorses that I laid the wood on and cut relatively short pieces when possible as I'm splitting by hand and long splits drain my energy. I prefer to split on each whack with the axe. I also believe, whether factual or a figment of my imagination, that small splits season quicker given the larger exposed surface area.
> 
> Anyhow, as I'm getting near the end of the cut, the bar becomes pinched and as the wood falls away, it makes contact with the chain and sends out sparks and in one case, the chain falls off and fortunately didn't harm me. That was due to me cutting too long on a new chain without checking tension. Won't happen again...I'm very leery of saws in general. I picture my leg as a piece of tender flesh and that chain ripping through like a hot knife on butter. Fear is a good thing when dealing with deadly tools.
> 
> ...


 Firecracker, I know it's a long video but it's worth watching at least once.  Covers saws and basic cutting from A-Z.  Bucking logs is covered at about 0:50:00


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## firecracker_77 (Oct 12, 2012)

MasterMech said:


> Firecracker, I know it's a long video but it's worth watching at least once. Covers saws and basic cutting from A-Z. Bucking logs is covered at about 0:50:00




Thanks. I watched part of this on Sunday. It's an excellent video. I will watch again.

The most important part is the safety precautions including preventing kick back. For people who don't drop trees, that's the number 1 threat aside from understanding the chain brake, how to properly start the saw, and how to keep body parts away from that 60 mph chain.

Alot to think about, but good habits early will prevent devastation later.


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## MasterMech (Oct 12, 2012)

firecracker_77 said:


> Thanks. I watched part of this on Sunday. It's an excellent video. I will watch again.
> 
> The most important part is the safety precautions including preventing kick back. For people who don't drop trees, that's the number 1 threat aside from understanding the chain brake, how to properly start the saw, and how to keep body parts away from that 60 mph chain.
> 
> Alot to think about, but good habits early will prevent devastation later.


 
And PPE.  Good habits prevent accidents, PPE prevents mistakes from becoming injuries/death.  For strictly bucking up logs in the clear, protecting your hands, eyes and ears are a must (gloves, glasses, and plugs/muffs) in additon to chaps and safety footwear (preferably steel toe boots).  A helmet system is nice and will keep you from performing a lobotomy on yourself in a kickback situation.  It becomes a must if you graduate to felling your own trees.


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## Adkjake (Oct 12, 2012)

Eric Johnson said:


> Here's a couple of safety tips, in addition to wearing a hardhat with face screen or glasses, steel-toed or kevlar-lined (even better) boots, and kevlar chaps or safety pants:
> 
> * Park your pickup headed out of the woodlot and leave the keys in it.
> * If your work area is not visible from the road, use surveyor tape to flag out the entrance
> ...


 All good tips, in addition anytime I'm out cutting, even if in the backyard, I always have an emergency whistle on a lanyard hanging around my neck. Figure it is a back up to the cell phone or for some reason can't reach cell phone pocket.


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## firecracker_77 (Oct 12, 2012)

Adkjake said:


> All good tips, in addition anytime I'm out cutting, even if in the backyard, I always have an emergency whistle on a lanyard hanging around my neck. Figure it is a back up to the cell phone or for some reason can't reach cell phone pocket.


 
I am real tempted to go over to the dealer and pickup that helmet system, chaps, and Stihl brand gloves.

Due to Master Mech mentioning it, I'm going to get on that today / tomorrow. $160 is a wise move if you kickback or screw-up.. Like I said, flesh protection is cheap on the front end.

Another reason I didn't want to buy more saw than I needed. I need to leave room for those designer chaps. LOL!


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## FireBones (Oct 12, 2012)

Quality stuff here guys! This forum is top notch  and I would  recommend it to anybody looking to expand there knowledge with regard to cutting or burning wood! I really appreciate you guys taking the time to offer the advice!


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## firecracker_77 (Oct 12, 2012)

FireBones said:


> Quality stuff here guys! This forum is top notch  and I would  recommend it to anybody looking to expand there knowledge with regard to cutting or burning wood! I really appreciate you guys taking the time to offer the advice!


 
Lots of good stuff on here for sure.  Especially in the wood shed where this is much to gain.


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## FireBones (Oct 12, 2012)

firecracker_77 said:


> I am real tempted to go over to the dealer and pickup that helmet system, chaps, and Stihl brand gloves.
> 
> Due to Master Mech mentioning it, I'm going to get on that today / tomorrow. $160 is a wise move if you kickback or screw-up.. Like I said, flesh protection is cheap on the front end.
> 
> ...


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## firecracker_77 (Oct 12, 2012)

I wasn't getting the helmet until the kickback issue was raised.  It gives you all in one so really not too bad when you think about it for $60


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## Wood Duck (Oct 12, 2012)

When I cut a whole tree I always start by cutting the branches first, and I start cutting each branch at the smallest part I plan to take for firewood, which is pretty small. Pick away at the easy to reach parts first. While the branches are still attached to the tree they are easy to cut, so I cut them to stove length right there and work my way down to the trunk. I keep going until the only branches remaining are the ones that are pinned under the tree or holding the tree up off the ground. This not only is a good way to cut branches, but it also lightens the load on the trunk so it is less likely to shift positions while I am trying to cut it, and makes it easier to get to the trunk and move around the trunk.


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## Eric Johnson (Oct 12, 2012)

firecracker_77 said:


> I wasn't getting the helmet until the kickback issue was raised. It gives you all in one so really not too bad when you think about it for $60


 
You can probably find one online for less than that.

Here's what you should do when the tree starts to fall. As Backwoods Savage points out, you also need to clear an escape path. Some people carry an axe or hatchet with them to pound the wedges in with. I always wind up losing that stuff, so now I do what Soren Eriksson showed us back in the '90s when he was training manual loggers, which is to cut a short piece of wood from a sapling or branch and use it as a club to pound the wedge in with. Another really important thing to remember is that you should never cut through the hinge before the tree starts to fall, or you'll lose all control over it. And if you don't know what I'm talking about, you probably shouldn't be felling trees just yet.

Anyway, I took this photo a few weeks ago on a logging job in northern New York near Newcomb.


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## FireBones (Oct 12, 2012)

You guys living in the USA get goods and services for so much cheaper it makes me cringe.....It's just not fair  I will report back the retail prices for Stihl PPE here in good old land of the fee aka Canada


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## smokinj (Oct 12, 2012)

For me the helmet face shield is a must and high winds goggles to.


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## TimJ (Oct 12, 2012)

One thing I know that I am doing wrong is working with too much saw. I am constantly using a 25" bar for almost everything. A long bar like that can get you in trouble faster. I am looking into getting some chaps. Half the time I am not wearing glasses and I never use ear muffs. I've gotten bit by the chain twice now and I don't want it to happen again. Seems like I crave to have that chainsaw in my hand every chance I get. If that's the case the odds are going up for another potential accident. Like Backwoods said there is a fine line between fear and respect and I am learning to respect the saw.


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## amateur cutter (Oct 12, 2012)

Well, not much to add here. My grand father was adamant about thinking ahead, what happens if? hows the tree gonna fall? what if it goes a different direction? etc. Taught me a lot of what to do before putting the saw to the wood. The old boy refused to wear a helmet though, & got killed by a widow maker @ 78 years old, go figure. As others have said, PPE always, Eric's tips are spot on for parking etc. 

Someone asked how long 1.8 gal of mix will last , for me about 3/4 to a full day depending on which saws are getting the most use. YMMV

As far as bucking, If I've got a lot of smaller stuff to buck up, 2' & under, I'll put the 28" bar on a saw, & buck with the front 1/3 of the bar so I don't have to bend over. Cut 2/3 to 3/4 through all the way down the log, roll with cant hook & repeat. Just stay out of the plane of the chain, & don't "monkey paw" the front grip. A C


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## firecracker_77 (Oct 12, 2012)

Thanks guys.  I read your words and take them to heart.  I need to get my safety gear ASAP before operating that saw again.

I won't be felling trees.  I'm not ready.  Done.  Before I ever do that, I'll get with someone who knows and can teach me. 

As far as bucking, I did a few yesterdday on the ground, doing all my cuts, then rolling the log and finishing the cut.  That method works.  Thanks again!


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## firecracker_77 (Oct 12, 2012)

TimJ said:


> One thing I know that I am doing wrong is working with too much saw. I am constantly using a 25" bar for almost everything. A long bar like that can get you in trouble faster. I am looking into getting some chaps. Half the time I am not wearing glasses and I never use ear muffs. I've gotten bit by the chain twice now and I don't want it to happen again. Seems like I crave to have that chainsaw in my hand every chance I get. If that's the case the odds are going up for another potential accident. Like Backwoods said there is a fine line between fear and respect and I am learning to respect the saw.


 
Can you share what you meant by bit by the chain twice? Did it fall off the bar and graze you or did you accidentally make contact with your skin?


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## TimJ (Oct 12, 2012)

Firecracker, I have always been very goal oriented and want results. You can't be like that with a saw in your hand. You always need to be thinking. Believe me I think alot but probably push too hard to get things done. Take your time above all else and don't get ahead of yourself. Bit by the chain twice means I was cut and believe me a man is nothing but butter when put next to a chainsaw. Everyone said it one way or another..................... respect the saw at all times and put safety number one.


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## firecracker_77 (Oct 12, 2012)

TimJ said:


> Firecracker, I have always been very goal oriented and want results. You can't be like that with a saw in your hand. You always need to be thinking. Believe me I think alot but probably push too hard to get things done. Take your time above all else and don't get ahead of yourself. Bit by the chain twice means I was cut and believe me a man is nothing but butter when put next to a chainsaw. Everyone said it one way or another..................... respect the saw at all times and put safety number one.


 
Wow....hopefully nothing too serious


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## Backwoods Savage (Oct 12, 2012)

I believe Tim posted on this forum about falling and landing with his hand right on the chain.


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## firecracker_77 (Oct 12, 2012)

Backwoods Savage said:


> I believe Tim posted on this forum about falling and landing with his hand right on the chain.


 
Oh my...that's horrible.  Respect the chain...whew!!


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## charly (Oct 12, 2012)

firecracker_77 said:


> How long would it take you to use 1.8 gallons of 2 stroke mixed gas? I made the mistake of buying a little too much last night. Looks like my Toro snow blower will be getting some Stihl synthetic 2 stroke gas mix this winter. I want it all used up within 6 months.


Add some SeaFoam to the fuel, 2 ounces to a gallon. Then don't worry about the fuel. I've done that for the last 15 years and never had gas issues to this date. 10 year old Stihl has all the original fuel lines, carb parts , etc. "Stihl" runs like day one! I say just cut on the ground like mentioned above. Flip the log over after 2/3 rds through. Once you get comfortable I just stick my running bar up under the cuts and pull the saw through, no chance of hitting the dirt with your chain. Of course I've got 30 plus years behind a saw, being a climber for some years as well. Good luck, wear your safety gear! Cost you nothing to do that! I've never been cut but have witnessed people do it first hand.


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## jeffesonm (Oct 12, 2012)

I am also pretty much brand new to chainsaws and here's what I did:

Spend an hour watching YouTube videos on felling, bucking, chainsaw operation, kickback, etc
Buy chainsaw chaps for $72, helmet with ear/face protection for $38, Dremel chain sharpener for $11 and two little wedges for $9
Start with some small (<12" diamater) trees to get comfortable with the saw
So far so good... trying to get comfortable while maintaining a healthy respect for the tool.  Also never saw alone, or at least be within ear shot of someone who knows you're out there sawing.


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## FireBones (Oct 15, 2012)

Went to the Stihl dealer on Friday afternoon and picked up a helmet/muffs shield combo, chaps/pants, gloves, glasses and boots. Also got a new wedge a sharpening kit and it totaled $450. Cheap insurance for sure! Thanks for the recomendations guys, cant wait to get back out cutting. I scored 7/8 MASSIVE dead standing maples and a couple big oaks on my father inlaws farm, not bad for a first scrounge LOL. I am having pro's come out to drop the trees because they are way out of my league!


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## FireBones (Oct 15, 2012)




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## Wood Duck (Oct 15, 2012)

Eric Johnson said:


> I measure with the saw. After awhile, it becomes second nature.


 
Before you start this I suggest you measure the saw bar. My "16 inch" chainsaw actually has close to 14 inches of bar extending beyond the body of the saw. I have a couple of year's worth of 14 inch splits before I bothered to actually measure. Now a 14 inch split looks normal to me but my stove will take 18 inchers.


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## Wood Duck (Oct 15, 2012)

FireBones said:


> View attachment 77445
> View attachment 77446


 
Are these the trees that you think are out of your league? C'mon, you own chaiwsaw chaps! What could go wrong? Get out there and give it a go and take video.

p.s. I think that maple is Sugar Maple - great firewood. I am not sure how big your saw is but you might want to have the pros cut those trunks to stove length for you. Even if your saw bar is long enough it will take a long time to cut those big trunks into rounds.


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## Eric Johnson (Oct 15, 2012)

Wood Duck said:


> Before you start this I suggest you measure the saw bar.


 
Good point. Measure from the tip of your bar to the desired length, then make a mark there on your saw with a Sharpee or some other marker. I cut my wood 24 inches, so on my 346XP, it goes from the tip of my 16-inch bar to where the back handle attaches to the rest of the saw. I'm not all that picky about the length, so two inches either way works well for me. I'm sure it averages out to about 24 inches.


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## FireBones (Oct 16, 2012)

Wood Duck said:


> Are these the trees that you think are out of your league? C'mon, you own chaiwsaw chaps! What could go wrong? Get out there and give it a go and take video.
> 
> p.s. I think that maple is Sugar Maple - great firewood. I am not sure how big your saw is but you might want to have the pros cut those trunks to stove length for you. Even if your saw bar is long enough it will take a long time to cut those big trunks into rounds.


 
The tree's along the road I do believe are sugar maples, and I am deffinatly having pros drop them as they are all dead standing. They have been dead for a couple years so bucking them shouldn't be too bad. This is going to be fun and a lot of work, there are 8 or 9 trees around that size to come down!!  I might even get lucky and take delivery on my new loader before I get started. I am just itching to get out and start my stacks.....


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## Stubborn Dutchman (Oct 18, 2012)

You've gotten a ton of great advice in a very compact format. Glad to see you taking it all in. About all I can add of any value is to have some sort of tool/supplies kit to take out in the woods with you. even a milk crate or a five gallon bucket will work. Besides your spare chains, sharpener kit, and wedges, include a hatchet and a stiff brush. Besides using the hatchet head for the wedges and small limbs, it's great for chipping bark away that has dirt imbedded in it. Removing dirty bark goes a long way to improving chain life. The stiff brush will remove dirt and snow on smoother bark. I also keep a couple quart oil cans full of bar oil in it. Much easier to pour from in super cold weather and less waste too. as your confidence builds think about a spare bar and chain. On bigger logs you will eventually encounter a pinch that the wedges won't fix. (speaking from experience here)

Re the fear comment, I like to think of it as a real healthy respect, and a good thing. Overconfidence will get you into trouble every time. Head the advice about preplanned escape routes. For me this is rule #2, right behind PPE!


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## albert1029 (Oct 19, 2012)

Thistle said:


> Been using saws since I was 15,felling trees since I was 17.Over 30 yrs. Even now I feel the hair on my neck stand up when I start to drop a big one.You should never lose your respect for certain things or act in a careless manner no matter how much experience you might have.That's when accidents happen.I've had a couple close calls ( few hangups,a small barber chair or two & a pinched bar) but nothing that endangered me,others,any property/equipment. You learn from any mistakes & do what you can to prevent any in the future.
> 
> Wedges are a must IMO,both in felling & bucking.Sawbucks are great for rounds/poles up to 8" - 10" diameter also.Much easier for me to carry out 3 to 9 ft poles,load trailer or pickup & cut them on sawbuck later then constantly be leaning over cutting 1 piece at a time then have to bend over AGAIN to pick up & carry 4-5 times as many pieces to the trailer or pickup.


Like the hardhat...I have to get pouches like the ones you have, I carry a hatchet on my hip and an oil can in a fanny pack with wedges and the tools I need, not too handy.


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## albert1029 (Oct 19, 2012)

FireBones said:


> You guys living in the USA get goods and services for so much cheaper it makes me cringe.....It's just not fair  I will report back the retail prices for Stihl PPE here in good old land of the fee aka Canada


At least if you get a boo-boo you have free medical...oops just found out about all the taxes I guess the land of the fee you were referring to.


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## albert1029 (Oct 19, 2012)

Eric Johnson said:


> You should always set a wedge in the groove when you get, say, 1/2 to 2/3 of the way through the cut. Basically, do it when there's enough room to get the wedge in without hitting it with the saw. That way, it won't set back on your saw. If you don't use a wedge and it does set back on your saw, there's usually no way to get a wedge in. And even if you could, it's probably not going to do much to help you. So, use a wedge even if you don't think you'll need one, because you'll sure wish you did if you do.
> 
> Set-back trees are pretty dangerous. The best way to deal with one of those is to get another saw and make another felling cut above your saw to drop the tree where it wants to go. Yes, this means leaving the scene to find another saw. Don't put yourself in that situation.
> 
> ...


 
Son, that is some great info...thanks. My prob is there are a few large BL leaners 2 of which are resting on relatively small cherry trees. I'm sure it would be hard to give advice just on a picture of a leaner. Cut one near the base and the tree just jumped off the stump and ended up on a bigger angle. I have 100' rope I plan on heaving over near the top and try pulling from the side. Like the info on not cutting the hinge till the tree starts to fall. All of the video I've seen the hinge is cut with the wedge in place and tree not falling.


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## albert1029 (Oct 19, 2012)

firecracker_77 said:


> How long would it take you to use 1.8 gallons of 2 stroke mixed gas? I made the mistake of buying a little too much last night. Looks like my Toro snow blower will be getting some Stihl synthetic 2 stroke gas mix this winter. I want it all used up within 6 months.


That's a lot of gas. I use a synthetic oil with fuel conditioner in it. I think it's called OPTIMAX-2. It claims to be good for any ratio of 2-stroke mix.


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## Eric Johnson (Oct 19, 2012)

albert1029 said:


> All of the video I've seen the hinge is cut with the wedge in place and tree not falling.


 
We may be confusing our terminology. In the following photo, you can clearly see the hinge. If you cut that before the tree "commits" to a direction of fall, then it can fall anywhere & you've lost control of it. Quite simply, you aim the tree's fall with the notch, you get it to start falling by making the back cut, and the(intact) hinge forces the tree to fall where you aimed it. Add a wedge or two to help the process along, and you're probably looking at a successful felling operation.


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## onetracker (Oct 19, 2012)

Wood Duck said:


> When I cut a whole tree I always start by cutting the branches first, and I start cutting each branch at the smallest part I plan to take for firewood, which is pretty small. Pick away at the easy to reach parts first. While the branches are still attached to the tree they are easy to cut, so I cut them to stove length right there and work my way down to the trunk. I keep going until the only branches remaining are the ones that are pinned under the tree or holding the tree up off the ground. This not only is a good way to cut branches, but it also lightens the load on the trunk so it is less likely to shift positions while I am trying to cut it, and makes it easier to get to the trunk and move around the trunk.


 
+1

that's been my strategy forever ....well.....37 years


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## Elle (Nov 27, 2012)

What a great thread. I am a future wood burner and new to using a chain saw. I used to be quite fearful of them-I think that has more to do with Halloween, but I digress. I've been out cutting up logs (no standing trees yet) with my uncle. He's a seasoned woodsman and it giving me little tips on how to cut properly and such. I've been out cutting about 4 times now (3 with Uncle and 1 alone) and I feel pretty good with the saw so far. Dad gave me a lot of basics using other saws so I have a good foundation to build on. Didn't have a kickback yet, but I always plan for it and do what I can to prevent it if possible. When I say "alone" it is in the view of neighbors. I always let them know when I am doing something sort of dangerous like working on the electrical or something like that, just in case they don't see me for many hours they can come check. When I start going to the state forests to cut I will probably buy one of those GPS rescue thingys and carry it with me. I have chaps, but I need to get a hardhat! Once again, great thread..thanks for all the tips guys.


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## charly (Nov 27, 2012)

Eric Johnson said:


> We may be confusing our terminology. In the following photo, you can clearly see the hinge. If you cut that before the tree "commits" to a direction of fall, then it can fall anywhere & you've lost control of it. Quite simply, you aim the tree's fall with the notch, you get it to start falling by making the back cut, and the(intact) hinge forces the tree to fall where you aimed it. Add a wedge or two to help the process along, and you're probably looking at a successful felling operation.


Nice Hinge wood... I use to work on DOT's tree crew, we took care of 8 counties from Essex down to Green County. Taking down some big nasty hazard trees at times. I remember my boss would always check my hinge wood after felling any good size trees, ,,,, he wanted them even or holding wood to one side if needed. He'd let you know if you screwed up! He made me a competent feller. That's why your still around  I like your Tin Bill cruiser hard hat


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## charly (Nov 27, 2012)

FireBones said:


> Went to the Stihl dealer on Friday afternoon and picked up a helmet/muffs shield combo, chaps/pants, gloves, glasses and boots. Also got a new wedge a sharpening kit and it totaled $450. Cheap insurance for sure! Thanks for the recomendations guys, cant wait to get back out cutting. I scored 7/8 MASSIVE dead standing maples and a couple big oaks on my father inlaws farm, not bad for a first scrounge LOL. I am having pro's come out to drop the trees because they are way out of my league!


See if they are County tree's, they might take them done for nothing. I had a good size declining sugar maple out by my road, at the edge of my driveway,,, was starting to shed limbs. I called, they came and measured the road set back,,,, sure enough it was their tree. They came and took the tree down and left me all the wood, they chipped up all the brush. Was an easy 800 dollar removal. I gave them 100 dollars to buy everyone on the crew lunch. Saved me renting a chipper , etc.


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## Waulie (Nov 27, 2012)

I'm trying to figure out why that tree fell 90 degrees from where it was was supposed to based on the location of the hinge.  Maybe the tree rolled after it fell, but I finf that very unlikely.  Also, it looks like the hinge is crushed on the end in the direction of the fall. 

Just trying to understand.


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## MasterMech (Nov 27, 2012)

Waulie said:


> I'm trying to figure out why that tree fell 90 degrees from where it was was supposed to based on the location of the hinge. Maybe the tree rolled after it fell, but I finf that very unlikely. Also, it looks like the hinge is crushed on the end in the direction of the fall.
> 
> Just trying to understand.


 
I see 'em flop over a bit quite often when they fall, especially if there is a big branch on the side that hits first.


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## Eric Johnson (Nov 27, 2012)

Yes, it flopped when it hit the ground. Good catch. One of those big trees unfortunately hit a rock when it hit ground, ruining part of an upper log--might have been this one. That might be what caused it to twist
	

		
			
		

		
	



	

		
			
		

		
	
 around.

Here's what it looked like as it was falling. It went right where he aimed it.


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## Thistle (Nov 27, 2012)

Dropped a medium sized (10" x 50 ft tall) Bur Oak snag yesterday morning,had a very slight lean uphill in opposite direction.Double stacked my wedges,it rolled a tiny bit coming down but still landed where I wanted - right between 1 large White Oak & a scrub Black Cherry about 8 ft apart.


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## charly (Nov 27, 2012)

Thistle said:


> Dropped a medium sized (10" x 50 ft tall) Bur Oak snag yesterday morning,had a very slight lean uphill in opposite direction.Double stacked my wedges,it rolled a tiny bit coming down but still landed where I wanted - right between 1 large White Oak & a scrub Black Cherry about 8 ft apart.


Any critical trees going the wrong way ,,, I'd always used a throw ball to set a line up high and tied them off  ,, then pulled them over leaving a good amount of hinge wood . On one tree crew we used what was called a Bigshot,,, a giant sling shot to shoot up a throw ball nearly 80 ft. Once we got good it was actually faster to set a pull line then to set our bucket truck up to set a line, plus it saved all that wear on the bucket truck. We use to get a lot of stuff from The Sherill Tree Company.  I use to set my climbing line as well with the throw-ball, that way your tied in from the start and also allowed a way to enter the tree without climbing spurs during pruning operations, I'd body thrust up. Now they have a lot of nice rope ascenders.


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## Thistle (Nov 27, 2012)

charly said:


> Any critical trees going the wrong way ,,, I'd always used a throw ball to set a line up high and tied them off ,, then pulled them over leaving a good amount of hinge wood . On one tree crew we used what was called a Bigshot,,, a giant sling shot to shoot up a throw ball nearly 80 ft. Once we got good it was actually faster to set a pull line then to set our bucket truck up to set a line, plus it saved all that wear on the bucket truck. We use to get a lot of stuff from The Sherill Tree Company. I use to set my climbing line as well with the throw-ball, that way your tied in from the start and also allowed a way to enter the tree without climbing spurs during pruning operations, I'd body thrust up. Now they have a lot of nice rope ascenders.


 

I have several hundred feet of ropes,cables,weighted throw line,come-along,12 V winch etc.Am gonna get one of those slingshot tools pretty soon,saves lots of abuse to my shoulder throwing that 3 lb weight.Out in the woods things can get crowded when throwing those ropes sometimes.

This was a very minor lean (guessing barely a foot off vertical in 50 ft height) & was minimum 100 ft from any structures in the opposite direction.Nothing for it to hit.If it was  much larger or more severe lean I'd have used a different procedure of course.Calm winds yesterday morning when I started,within 15 minutes of gathering the gear & walking from the garage to the tree it was on the ground.I was last on the property 2 weeks ago but didnt drop it because of gusty NW winds 40-50 MPH.I dont mind working from zero to 90 degrees, light rain or snow.But I stay outta the woods when there's lightning,heavy rain or strong winds.


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## charly (Nov 27, 2012)

Thistle said:


> I have several hundred feet of ropes,cables,weighted throw line,come-along,12 V winch etc.Am gonna get one of those slingshot tools pretty soon,saves lots of abuse to my shoulder throwing that 3 lb weight.Out in the woods things can get crowded when throwing those ropes sometimes.
> 
> This was a very minor lean (guessing barely a foot off vertical in 50 ft height) & was minimum 100 ft from any structures in the opposite direction.Nothing for it to hit.If it was much larger or more severe lean I'd have used a different procedure of course.Calm winds yesterday morning when I started,within 15 minutes of gathering the gear & walking from the garage to the tree it was on the ground.I was last on the property 2 weeks ago but didnt drop it because of gusty NW winds 40-50 MPH.I dont mind working from zero to 90 degrees, light rain or snow.But I stay outta the woods when there's lightning,heavy rain or strong winds.


Years ago while doing a back yard Maple tree take down I got caught up in the canopy in a white out. Snow just all of sudden showed up and came through to the point I couldn't do anything but wait it out. Home owner eventually came out and said I could come back tomorrow to finsih the job if I wanted. They thought I was going to get blown out of the tree,,, 20 minutes later I was back at it, just a little wet. Rigging is good to have. We had a monster friction bollard when I worked on the DOT tree crew. We could lower some pretty big limb wood, keeping it a controlled fall as to not shock load the lower line as we slowly braked it to a stop. I use to use a lot of carabiners and loop runners as well. I would leave a bowline in a lowering line and just clip a loop runner and carabiner on for lowering all my wood , fast, and easy for the ground man to unhook. Sometimes making false crotches as well. All sorts of goodies for tree work


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