# Bitter sweet day -- tearing out my Biomass 60



## mikefrommaine (Apr 1, 2013)

My biomass 60 has been great, but as much as I love it, it is time to tear it out.

I didn't want to say anything here in case it did not happen. Several months ago I was contacted about beta testing a new boiler. It's a collaboration between a couple of dealers. And made in the USA! They wanted someone with experience running a boiler that would speak their mind and post their experiences online so others could get honest feedback.

The new boiler was delivered from New Hampshire on Friday. So it's really happening  I've got pics of course. Didn't get to post earlier because I was out of town for Easter. They are calling it the v-gun(L). Basically a heavy duty unit with independent lambda controls and a new cycone design which is integral to the boiler.

It isn't yet UL listed but should be by next winter. The actual install should be pretty easy. Just going to have to unhook a couple unions and slightly relocate the boiler supply and return. Going to to keep pretty much all the piping the same to get an accurate comparison.


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## maple1 (Apr 1, 2013)

Huh, didn't think the rumours had anything to them.

Can't wait to see those pics.


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## Fred61 (Apr 1, 2013)

Better hang on to the Biomass just in case the new unit doesn't work out.


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## arngnick (Apr 1, 2013)

Looking forward to some pics


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## mikefrommaine (Apr 1, 2013)

Fred61 said:


> Better hang on to the Biomass just in case the new unit doesn't work out.


Probably going to keep it for a little while and make sure the new v-gun(L) is working good. Maybe sell the biomass next fall.


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## Tennman (Apr 1, 2013)

Well, as a fellow BioMass owner... bummer. I was planning on sucking your brain dry to get mine tuned where you're operating now. In several months, I will have a 1000 gal storage system circulated by a Laddo. So I really want to get a brain dump on your 60 settings and how you operate. BUT, as a fellow boiler geek, Wooohoooo for you!! AND I think it's a HOOT that you're getting a lambda. I just can't resist wondering what your emotions are about crossing over to the lambda "dark side". I pretty clearly remember your past involvement in lambda discussions. Me... I have to trust computer controlled gizmos every day so I love stuff with it's own brain. I think it's great you're getting this opportunity and not just a little jealous (a lot jealous)! I'm positioning my current system to do exactly what you're doing now, get everything around the boiler top of the line and consider an "engine" upgrade in few years. Please tell these guys that you HIGHLY recommend a beta tester from the lower latitudes as an entry into a vast, untapped market in the deep South. Attention all whiz bang wannabe boiler makers out there.... I AM ABSOLUTELY a beta testing candidate representing underprivileged children of Confederate War Veterans.


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## kopeck (Apr 1, 2013)

Huh, on April 1st no less?

K


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## Floydian (Apr 1, 2013)

kopeck said:


> Huh, on April 1st no less?


 
Yeah, it is suspicious. Almost as suspicious as Mike with a lambda boiler.....

Noah


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## kopeck (Apr 1, 2013)

Floydian said:


> Almost as suspicious as Mike with a lambda boiler.....


 
That's the part that made me stop and think... 

K


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## henfruit (Apr 1, 2013)

Mike, I will be over on Thursday with the rest of the parts for the VGUN.Let me know what time. I also got that special pump you wanted.


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## Floydian (Apr 1, 2013)

mikefrommaine said:


> They are calling it the v-gun(L). Basically a heavy duty unit with independent lambda controls and a new cycone design which is integral to the boiler.


 
This tidbit as well. Perhaps a collaboration between Wood Gun and Vigas

Noah


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## BoilerBob (Apr 1, 2013)

April what???


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## henfruit (Apr 1, 2013)

Wait,Breaking news the name has been changed to a VARM.


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## Blue Tornado (Apr 1, 2013)

Funny as heck..............


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## mikefrommaine (Apr 1, 2013)

The install is taking a little longer than expected. Got it all hooked up and pressure tested but the wiring diagram is a little complicated. But I have full faith that if is stops working in the middle of the night on a holiday when it's -20 and snowing I can figure out a way to keep it all going. What do you think?  It looks like  I can bypass the lambda controls by jumping pin j-142 with a ground and adding a resistor between a-22 and b-37. Should keep me warm?


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## OldStoneHouse (Apr 1, 2013)

Nice work guys, that's the best one this year!


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## Tennman (Apr 1, 2013)

Ahhh.... I've been very successfully punk'd.... very good Mike. Apparently you've been preparing for this for weeks because I noticed the removal of "the BMW of Boilers" and then the edit of your signature today.....Well, as this site's official representative of underprivileged children of CW Vets..... my head will be on a swivel the rest of the day and not even trust my 94 year old mother.

But the good news (at least for me) is I still get to pester you about your BioMass 60 settings. And I had such a feeling of good will today towards my fellow man, it being the day after Easter and all... Very, very good..... but why was it not the (LC) model.... lambda cyclone? Yep... as they say.... hook, line, and sinker.


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## Chris Hoskin (Apr 1, 2013)

fell for it hook, line and sinker!  From New Hampshire no less!  Well done.


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## flyingcow (Apr 1, 2013)

Have to admit, got me a little envious. Up until now, hadn't even realized what today's date is.


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## nrcrash (Apr 1, 2013)

Thought for a minute that Mike had an epiphany and saw the light.....  To bad its not true (for him).  Well back to blind biomass faith!!


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## mikefrommaine (Apr 1, 2013)

Well, even though most everyone realized what today is I might well post a pic of the v-gun(L)


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## Fred61 (Apr 1, 2013)

I was starting to feel sorry for you Just because of the word "Gun" in the name.


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## BoilerMan (Apr 1, 2013)

Mike, by the looks of the v-gun I think I may want to try one out too!  That's HIGH TECH!  And the Japanese wireing diagram too, I want a veeeee----guuuuunnnnn!

TS


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## heaterman (Apr 1, 2013)

Nice work Mike!  lol

So what is the Chinese schematic really from?


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## Floydian (Apr 1, 2013)

mikefrommaine said:


>


 
Interesting concept with the box fan. I guess that's a forced draft unit?

Noah


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## mikefrommaine (Apr 1, 2013)

heaterman said:


> Nice work Mike! lol
> 
> So what is the Chinese schematic really from?


It was a random diagram from google images.


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## maple1 (Apr 1, 2013)

We could have run with this one a little further - it had serious potential.


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## mikefrommaine (Apr 1, 2013)

maple1 said:


> We could have run with this one a little further - it had serious potential.


After your first reply I didn't think anyone would buy my story. Gotta get up early to get something by you Canadiens, Eh?


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## maple1 (Apr 1, 2013)

I thought the 'rumours' angle would keep the flow going - took me a while to come up with it, it being before I had my morning caffiene shot & all..


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## Blue Tornado (Apr 1, 2013)

Gotta say thanks for the levity Mike, yours is the only one all day. Although not the "best ever" it rates in the top ten, well done.


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## chewy (Apr 1, 2013)

I thought you guys might like this.  I just stumbled on this video doing a v-gun search.

erin


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## BoilerMan (Apr 1, 2013)

"this unit is designed to ONLY 'burn' wet wood" I love it.  Mike that is what you need!  no need to season any more.  And look at how efficient it is, there is nothing comming out the stack, um is the guy blind? 

TS


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## mikefrommaine (Apr 1, 2013)

Takes 16-17 firings a day. And he can't believe how efficient it is?


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## chewy (Apr 1, 2013)

One thing I noticed right off the bat was that it has a light bulb.  You just don't see that on any of those euro gassers.  It's such a simple concept.  

Taylor I think what you are seeing from the stack is water vapor.

Erin


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## infinitymike (Apr 2, 2013)

Fred61 said:


> I was starting to feel sorry for you Just because of the word "Gun" in the name.


 
Always gotta throw a dig out there.


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## Fred61 (Apr 2, 2013)

infinitymike said:


> Always gotta throw a dig out there.


 Depends on your/my viewpoint. From your angle it seems like a "dig". From my point of view I purchased a product and got royally screwed and have a good reason to feel the way I do and to be able to express my feelings. We have opinions from owners expressing the merits and the pitfalls of various units on this forum and I should be as eligable to do so as anyone else here.


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## heaterman (Apr 2, 2013)

chewy said:


> I thought you guys might like this. I just stumbled on this video doing a v-gun search.
> 
> erin


 

Someone tell me this is an April Fool's day joke. Please........just please let it be a joke....


LOL that is a great video Erin.


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## chewy (Apr 2, 2013)

heaterman said:


> Someone tell me this is an April Fool's day joke.  Please........just please let it be a joke....


I wish I could, but unfortunately I can't!  On the upside I have a light bulb!

Erin


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## BoilerMan (Apr 2, 2013)

chewy said:


> One thing I noticed right off the bat was that it has a light bulb. You just don't see that on any of those euro gassers. It's such a simple concept.
> 
> Taylor I think what you are seeing from the stack is water vapor.
> 
> Erin


 
I thnk it's unburned hydrocarbons AKA smoke. Smoke lingers after the white water vapor, and this bluish stuff coming out of the stack looks like smoke to me. Water vapor would be white, but if you burn wet wood........I guess you'd have alot of water.........which has to go somewhere, cold combustion, as the boiling water only boils at 212F at atmosphereic pressure.

Erin, how can they claim 99% efficiency in the v-gun? The theoryetical ceiling of wood combustion and heat extraction is in the 80-85% range which has been proven time and time again on here. Over 85% and the water starts to condense out of the flue gasses and bad things happen, unless you are Nofossil's brother who does that intentionally in his expieremental boiler setup. The condensate from wood I'd imagine would be nasty and acidic, high grade SS all the way, not the cheapo 300 series that we use for flue pipe.

TS


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## chewy (Apr 2, 2013)

Taylor Sutherland said:


> I thnk it's unburned hydrocarbons AKA smoke. Smoke lingers after the white water vapor, and this bluish stuff coming out of the stack looks like smoke to me. Water vapor would be white, but if you burn wet wood........I guess you'd have alot of water.........which has to go somewhere, cold combustion, as the boiling water only boils at 212F at atmosphereic pressure.
> 
> Erin, how can they claim 99% efficiency in the v-gun? The theoryetical ceiling of wood combustion and heat extraction is in the 80-85% range which has been proven time and time again on here. Over 85% and the water starts to condense out of the flue gasses and bad things happen, unless you are Nofossil's brother who does that intentionally in his expieremental boiler setup. The condensate from wood I'd imagine would be nasty and acidic, high grade SS all the way, not the cheapo 300 series that we use for flue pipe.
> 
> TS





Taylor Sutherland said:


> I thnk it's unburned hydrocarbons AKA smoke. Smoke lingers after the white water vapor, and this bluish stuff coming out of the stack looks like smoke to me. Water vapor would be white, but if you burn wet wood........I guess you'd have alot of water.........which has to go somewhere, cold combustion, as the boiling water only boils at 212F at atmosphereic pressure.
> 
> Erin, how can they claim 99% efficiency in the v-gun? The theoryetical ceiling of wood combustion and heat extraction is in the 80-85% range which has been proven time and time again on here. Over 85% and the water starts to condense out of the flue gasses and bad things happen, unless you are Nofossil's brother who does that intentionally in his expieremental boiler setup. The condensate from wood I'd imagine would be nasty and acidic, high grade SS all the way, not the cheapo 300 series that we use for flue pipe.
> 
> TS


Um...what?

Erin


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## chewy (Apr 2, 2013)

The salesman said it was 99% efficient, but only if I burn wet wood.

Erin


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## BoilerMan (Apr 2, 2013)

Oh CRAP erin you got me again!
It's the sig......and mike alrady did it, and I still fell for it.......................

I love the heating 650 square feet with 15,000 gal of storage!!  Super efficient too!

TS


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## chewy (Apr 2, 2013)

Taylor, I kinda thought you got me   You put a verbal smack down on me, and left me speechless!!

This is somewhat true.  The vid is showing my actual free heat machine.  That's about the only truth.  I'm hoping to get a gasser in the future.  I just saw an opportunity for laugh and if you can't laugh at yourself who can you laugh at.  Sometimes I just sit in awe starring  at stack and how inefficient my owb "free heat machine" is!

Erin


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## mikefrommaine (Apr 3, 2013)

Love the signature '1st generation v-gun (99% efficient)'

Must be using european math. I think if you had waited for the v-gun(L) you would have been happier.


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## Blue Tornado (Apr 3, 2013)

Today is April 3rd.


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## Tennman (Apr 3, 2013)

Thanks Taylor, very considerate. I feel much better.


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## maple1 (Apr 3, 2013)

That's a great vid. Awesome.


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## mikefrommaine (Apr 3, 2013)

maple1 said:


> That's a great vid. Awesome.


I don't think I could have done it without laughing.


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## maple1 (Apr 3, 2013)

chewy said:


> Taylor, I kinda thought you got me You put a verbal smack down on me, and left me speechless!!
> 
> This is somewhat true. The vid is showing my actual free heat machine. That's about the only truth. I'm hoping to get a gasser in the future. I just saw an opportunity for laugh and if you can't laugh at yourself who can you laugh at. Sometimes I just sit in awe starring at stack and how inefficient my owb "free heat machine" is!
> 
> Erin


 
BTW, you have my full sympathies in owning that thing.


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## chewy (Apr 3, 2013)

mikefrommaine said:


> I don't think I could have done it without laughing.


If you are lucky I will post the first 3 takes   I was laughing so hard.  There are a couple of pauses in the final take where I almost lost it!

Erin


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## BoilerMan (Apr 3, 2013)

Tennman said:


> Thanks Taylor, very considerate. I feel much better.


 
It was the signiture that got me.  "First generation V-gun" and the 99% efficient.  It's hard to know the tone of someone when it's only text that we read.  The implied sarcasm and poking fun at oneself can't be effectivly brought into a text only enviroment.

TS


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## Tennman (Apr 4, 2013)

Taylor, you do understand my comment to you was also dripping with sarcasm since I also was completely punk'd on April 1. Nice to see there's other trusting souls like us around here. I've already marked my calendar for April 1, 2014.


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## DaveBP (Apr 7, 2013)

Will a Vegan boiler burn deer carcasses?


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## Floydian (Apr 7, 2013)

DaveBP said:


> Will a Vegan boiler burn deer carcasses?


 
 I'd say no, strictly speaking. But tires are just fine I'm sure!

Noah


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## Fred61 (Apr 7, 2013)

Floydian said:


> I'd say no, strictly speaking. But tires are just fine I'm sure!
> 
> Noah


 Thats because they look like large sliced black olives


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