# Buy or burn less dry? What would you do?



## BillLion (Sep 16, 2013)

I've learned so much here in such a short time. So thank you for all the collective insight!

So, here's my situation:

I started gathering, splitting and stacking my own firewood for the first time starting January this year (this upcoming season will be my 3rd burning season with a fireplace insert). 

I have maybe 2&1/2-3 cords CSS wood (a combo of Norway maple, black locust, elm, apple, pin oak & sugar maple), but some definitely won't be ready to burn this season and some is on the fringe. That leads to my question.

*Would you buy all/most of your wood this year* to have really dry wood for next season (as many here prefer) and get ahead of the curve. *OR would you burn wood say that registers up to 25% moisture content* knowing the burns won't be as efficient as could be, but are at least still free?

I welcome your perspective...


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## DaveGunter (Sep 16, 2013)

BillLion said:


> I've learned so much here in such a short time. So thank you for all the collective insight!
> 
> So, here's my situation:
> 
> ...



Do whatever it takes to get ahead of the curve, once you're there it is so much easier to stay ahead.


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## Gary_602z (Sep 16, 2013)

Buy only if you can verify what you are buying is drier than what you have. Chances are it won't be.

Gary
Or if it is wetter and a super price buy it and get it drying to get ahead for future years.


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## Augie (Sep 16, 2013)

Burn what you have, rig a simple solar kiln and make sure you have dry wood for next year, I know it is heretical but I used a simple solar kiln to get oak ready(read below 20 percent) in one spring/summer. I will use the solar kiln and be able to get one full year ahead, and Ill never need to be more ahead


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## CMAG (Sep 16, 2013)

I picked up a ton of Envi blocks for this season to keep me ahead, "Seasoned wood for sale"...... "The tree was seasoned before we cut it down"


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## JP11 (Sep 16, 2013)

Go the envblock route.  you KNOW that's dry.

unless you find someone selling wood that's for sure dry.  like kiln dried where you can see the process.

JP


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## Realstone (Sep 16, 2013)

Check your CL ads for free pallets.  They _are _ dry and partly processed.  Stack nice too!  Just gotta watch for the nails.


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## Realstone (Sep 16, 2013)

Found these on your Hartford CL:
http://hartford.craigslist.org/zip/4057930587.html
http://hartford.craigslist.org/zip/4043030802.html

And this little beauty:
http://hartford.craigslist.org/zip/4060113772.html


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## BillLion (Sep 16, 2013)

Thanks, for the input guys. The reason I posed this to everyone is I consistently read about an ideal scenario of being 2-3 years ahead of schedule, and I'm wondering if most people would actually buy wood short-term if necessary in order to achieve that. 

I pay $250 here for mixed hardwoods (oak, maple, black locust etc.) so it isn't as cheap as some places nor is it as expensive as others. Still much cheaper than oil or gas, but not as cheap as burning the FREE stuff I've gathered!


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## BillLion (Sep 16, 2013)

BillLion said:


> Thanks, for the input guys. The reason I posed this to everyone is I consistently read about an ideal scenario of being 2-3 years ahead of schedule, and I'm wondering if most people would actually buy wood short-term if necessary in order to achieve that.
> 
> I pay $250 here for a cord of mixed, seasoned hardwoods (oak, maple, black locust etc.) delivered, so it isn't as cheap as some places nor is it as expensive as others. Still much cheaper than oil or gas, but not as cheap as burning the FREE stuff I've gathered!


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## JP11 (Sep 16, 2013)

It's a quandry.  You need to scrounge TRIPLE what you need for a year.. in order to get ahead.

Herculean efforts, or a purchase are a way to get ahead.  

I just don't think buying wood for THIS year's burn is a good idea.  You are way more likely to not get dry wood.

JP


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## MrWhoopee (Sep 16, 2013)

Just remember, if you burn the wood you currently have, which is not really ready yet, you will be in the same situation next year. This is the first year that I have actually gotten ahead. It has taken a lot of effort, but I now have 3+ years of wood and I'm still cutting. From here on, I will only have to cut 3-5 cords per year, though I don't know if I will be able to limit myself now that I've got the habit. If you can buy dry wood, do.


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## Backwoods Savage (Sep 16, 2013)

BillLion said:


> Thanks, for the input guys. The reason I posed this to everyone is I consistently read about an ideal scenario of being 2-3 years ahead of schedule, and I'm wondering if most people would actually buy wood short-term if necessary in order to achieve that.
> 
> I pay $250 here for mixed hardwoods (oak, maple, black locust etc.) so it isn't as cheap as some places nor is it as expensive as others. Still much cheaper than oil or gas, but not as cheap as burning the FREE stuff I've gathered!




Bill, it does take a lot of work and time to get 3 years ahead. Most can not do that in one year, so you just keep on cutting a little more than you need each year until you get there. If it takes you 5 years, that is okay and for sure you'll then find it much easier year after year. Besides, then if something bad happens and you can't cut for a year, you still have your backside covered. 

As for buying wood, that could get you to the 3 years ahead sooner. Just don't plan on buying wood that you can burn in the same year you buy it. Oh you can do it with some types of wood but it is a long ways from ideal and can make wood burning a bit more of a chore than many want it to be.  In addition, you'd best keep a really close eye on the chimney and clean as needed. Even if that means you have to clean 3-4 times per winter. We've done that in the past. It is not fun for sure and we also had problems keeping the house warm enough....but we got through that winter. Surely would hate to have to do it again though...

btw, that mixed hardwood you are stating on buying, 2 years minimum drying time for those.


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## Laurent Cyr (Sep 16, 2013)

CMAG said:


> I picked up a ton of Envi blocks for this season to keep me ahead, "Seasoned wood for sale"...... "The tree was seasoned before we cut it down"


 CMAG, how much did a ton cost you?

Laurent


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## Wood Duck (Sep 16, 2013)

I'd burn what I have and keep an eye on the chimney to be sure I don't get a buildup. I'd also gather wood like crazy to get ahead.


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## CMAG (Sep 16, 2013)

Laurent Cyr said:


> CMAG, how much did a ton cost you?
> 
> Laurent


310


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## BillLion (Sep 16, 2013)

Backwoods Savage said:


> Bill, it does take a lot of work and time to get 3 years ahead. Most can not do that in one year, so you just keep on cutting a little more than you need each year until you get there. If it takes you 5 years, that is okay and for sure you'll then find it much easier year after year. Besides, then if something bad happens and you can't cut for a year, you still have your backside covered.
> 
> As for buying wood, that could get you to the 3 years ahead sooner. Just don't plan on buying wood that you can burn in the same year you buy it. Oh you can do it with some types of wood but it is a long ways from ideal and can make wood burning a bit more of a chore than many want it to be.  In addition, you'd best keep a really close eye on the chimney and clean as needed. Even if that means you have to clean 3-4 times per winter. We've done that in the past. It is not fun for sure and we also had problems keeping the house warm enough....but we got through that winter. Surely would hate to have to do it again though...
> 
> btw, that mixed hardwood you are stating on buying, 2 years minimum drying time for those.



Thanks for the feedback and encouragement.

I may very well run out of space before I can get to 12-15 cords on hand, but we'll see. 

I definitely have my chimney professionally cleaned each season. And this year (just last week) I had a full-length stainless steel liner installed. The previous homeowner installed the insert and they had a liner less than 1/2 length which didn't even meet local code. I think by pushing all the smoke through a more narrow surface more quickly it should help guard against creosote buildup.

As for the wood, I've bought wood from this guys for 2 years now, and it's solid. I still have half a cord left from last season and it's currently registering 12-17% MC on the pieces I've tested (after splitting them), so I think I'm OK. Just looking forward to getting self-sufficient!


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## Ram 1500 with an axe... (Sep 16, 2013)

I say keep gathering and splitting till you see the light at the end of the tunnel, you can do it, i did and its been less than a year, keep looking and talking about it, you will find it.....if not, buy it in the winter for 2014/2015


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## Cold Is Dumb (Sep 16, 2013)

You burn what you have.  If that's something you buy, well then ok, but it's rare to buy something that's ready to burn.  25% MC is not ideal, but it's not the end of the world either.  Maybe you clean the chimney more often this year, sometimes that's the way it goes.  If you can use pallets to start with, then mix your wood in after it's rolling, you'll make do.

But yeah, that's not a long-term solution.  Can you cut more for next (and subsequent) seasons?  Or will you be in this situation each burning season?  I made 25% and higher work for me prior to finding this site, you'll enjoy burning much more when you can get wood below that.


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## BillLion (Sep 16, 2013)

Cold Is Dumb said:


> You burn what you have.  If that's something you buy, well then ok, but it's rare to buy something that's ready to burn.  25% MC is not ideal, but it's not the end of the world either.  Maybe you clean the chimney more often this year, sometimes that's the way it goes.  If you can use pallets to start with, then mix your wood in after it's rolling, you'll make do.
> 
> But yeah, that's not a long-term solution.  Can you cut more for next (and subsequent) seasons?  Or will you be in this situation each burning season?  I made 25% and higher work for me prior to finding this site, you'll enjoy burning much more when you can get wood below that.



Yeah, the goal is to get ahead for sure. I have pretty to good access to free wood. It's finding the time to process it and the space to store it. I may have to end up settling for 2 years ahead, but that's still better than where I am now. But we'll see...


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## weatherguy (Sep 16, 2013)

To get ahead Id buy some but was always perusing CL for free wood and got the word out, eventually I managed to get 3 years ahead. Now I just replace what I burned, if its a slow scrounging year I but unseasoned wood for $135-150 cord to fill up my racks. Do whatever you have to do.


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## firefighterjake (Sep 17, 2013)

Me personally . . . I would burn what I have . . . but get some free pallets . . .. they will help with starting the fire and keeping things going . . . also keep a close eye on the chimney and realize that burning wood may not be quite so easy this year as it will in future years.

In the meantime I hate to say this . . . but if you're burning wood and scrounging or processing your own wood there is a certain level of time commitment one has to put into the work to get ahead. I've always said that for me personally burning wood is cheaper than burning oil, but the trade off is I have to commit many, many hours to processing the fuel . . . something that the big oil companies have already done for me. The other option if time is more valuable than money at this point is to buy some wood and have it delivered . . . unseasoned if you have the time and space. The good news is that once you are ahead of the game processing wood to replace the wood you used up in the previous heating season is much easier.


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## SolarAndWood (Sep 17, 2013)

BillLion said:


> As for the wood, I've bought wood from this guys for 2 years now, and it's solid. I still have half a cord left from last season and it's currently registering 12-17% MC on the pieces I've tested (after splitting them), so I think I'm OK. Just looking forward to getting self-sufficient!



If you have a guy that delivers dry wood and the out of pocket cost is an option, I'd buy it for this year and whatever you need to have enough for next year too.  Then, any work you do this fall will be dry by the time the 2015-16 season rolls around.  While getting 3 years ahead is great, getting at least a year ahead is huge.  

Wood storage is tough especially if you are in the burbs.  I burn 6-8 cord a year and hear about my 3 year supply from everyone.  Maybe you can find a place to keep your stockpile and only bring home enough for the season every September?  I filled a large area to make my site work.  Good luck.


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## BillLion (Sep 17, 2013)

firefighterjake said:


> Me personally . . . I would burn what I have . . . but get some free pallets . . .. they will help with starting the fire and keeping things going . . . also keep a close eye on the chimney and realize that burning wood may not be quite so easy this year as it will in future years.
> 
> In the meantime I hate to say this . . . but if you're burning wood and scrounging or processing your own wood there is a certain level of time commitment one has to put into the work to get ahead. I've always said that for me personally burning wood is cheaper than burning oil, but the trade off is I have to commit many, many hours to processing the fuel . . . something that the big oil companies have already done for me. The other option if time is more valuable than money at this point is to buy some wood and have it delivered . . . unseasoned if you have the time and space. The good news is that once you are ahead of the game processing wood to replace the wood you used up in the previous heating season is much easier.



Yeah, I agree. And I actually enjoy doing the work. It's just with work and stage of life (3 young kids) the time is sometimes challenging. It may end up being I need to to maintain a combo of buying some wood and processing some wood each year for now.


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## BillLion (Sep 17, 2013)

SolarAndWood said:


> If you have a guy that delivers dry wood and the out of pocket cost is an option, I'd buy it for this year and whatever you need to have enough for next year too.  Then, any work you do this fall will be dry by the time the 2015-16 season rolls around.  While getting 3 years ahead is great, getting at least a year ahead is huge.
> 
> Wood storage is tough especially if you are in the burbs.  I burn 6-8 cord a year and hear about my 3 year supply from everyone.  Maybe you can find a place to keep your stockpile and only bring home enough for the season every September?  I filled a large area to make my site work.  Good luck.



Yeah, I'm in the burbs, and VERY few people around me keep to much firewood in their yards in my neighborhood (the lots are tight together and not huge). Offsite isn't a bad idea to consider. Thanks!


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## Ram 1500 with an axe... (Sep 17, 2013)

An hour a day 2 or 3 days a week, in a month or two, you will be amazed at how much you accomplished and you will see the light at the end of the tunnel.... That's how I did it....work now for the future and you won't continue to have this problem....gl


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## JP11 (Sep 17, 2013)

The other way is find some friends.. offer pizza and beer.. and give it hell for a solid day.

I have on occasion decided during a vacation that I would work on wood a tank of chainsaw gas every morning.

JP


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## Jon1270 (Sep 17, 2013)

Augie said:


> , rig a simple solar kiln and make sure you have dry wood for next year, I know it is heretical but I used a simple solar kiln to get oak ready(read below 20 percent) in one spring/summer.



FWIW, I put about half of a face-cord of white oak in the rafters of my detached garage this past summer.  There's no breeze and only minimal ventilation in there but the roof is not shaded so it gets pretty warm, and of course the wood never gets rained on.  I measured a sample at 80% MC on May 7th, when the tree came down.  Two days ago I re-split a piece and it was around 23% in the middle -- not the holy grail by any means, but certainly usable in a pinch.  It's not the most rigorous testing scheme, but my impression so far is that heat does make a substantial difference in drying time.


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## Applesister (Sep 17, 2013)

Going hog wild right out of the starting gate is for some people. It took me about 5 years to adjust to wood heating over a span of time when fossel fuel prices wernt that bad. 
Buying fuel oil...processing trees here toward the goal of burning as future fuel. Weighing options.
When fuel costs reached 4.60 a gallon, it was financial necessity that finally kicked in. 
Wood will always be my cheapest option, even if I purchase it.


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## Bluezx636 (Sep 17, 2013)

I was just in the same situation. I just started burning last year, got a full season of wood split and stacked thats not ready for this winter. My wood is around 9 months old mostly oak and sitting around 34% Moisture Content. Knowing that it's going to be a struggle this whole season burning unseasoned wood and inevitably going to be faced with the same problem next year. I purchased a good mix of seasoned and semi seasoned wood. I now feel good that this should hopefully be the last year I have to buy wood. While still enjoying this burning season without the headache of trying to burn wet wood.


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## BillLion (Sep 17, 2013)

Bluezx636 said:


> I was just in the same situation. I just started burning last year, got a full season of wood split and stacked thats not ready for this winter. My wood is around 9 months old mostly oak and sitting around 34% Moisture Content. Knowing that it's going to be a struggle this whole season burning unseasoned wood and inevitably going to be faced with the same problem next year. I purchased a good mix of seasoned and semi seasoned wood. I now feel good that this should hopefully be the last year I have to buy wood. While still enjoying this burning season without the headache of trying to burn wet wood.



Smart. I will have to be 1-2 cords minimum, but may be able to use some of my current supply. Good for you on getting a full season CSS so soon; good hustling!


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## red oak (Sep 17, 2013)

BillLion said:


> I've learned so much here in such a short time. So thank you for all the collective insight!
> 
> So, here's my situation:
> 
> ...



If I had the wood I would burn it, rather than buy it, regardless of the moisture content.  Check the chimney often and mix drier wood with greener.  Just like Dennis said, get ahead a little more each year, devote an hour or so a few days a week, and it'll add up pretty quick.  

As for the kids, they can be a great help.  I will split for about 15-20 minutes, then call them out.  I'll tell them they stack while I keep splitting.  When they catch up with me we're done and get ice cream.

Works for older people too if you want to promise beer!


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## firefighterjake (Sep 17, 2013)

JP offered some great advice . . . dedicating a little time often sometimes results in better results vs. dedicating more time less often. Plugging away an hour or two each week or every few days may pay off.

And many guys being guys would love to hang out with their friends, use chainsaws and splitters and eat pizza and drink beer . . . I've actually had a great time hanging out with my friends cutting wood with them.


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## BillLion (Sep 18, 2013)

red oak said:


> If I had the wood I would burn it, rather than buy it, regardless of the moisture content.  Check the chimney often and mix drier wood with greener.  Just like Dennis said, get ahead a little more each year, devote an hour or so a few days a week, and it'll add up pretty quick.
> 
> As for the kids, they can be a great help.  I will split for about 15-20 minutes, then call them out.  I'll tell them they stack while I keep splitting.  When they catch up with me we're done and get ice cream.
> 
> Works for older people too if you want to promise beer!



Good idea! It's amazing how powerful of an incentive ice cream can be. 

When you say regardless of MC, is there a level you'd max at when burning?


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## Applesister (Sep 18, 2013)

I believe 30% moisture is suposed to be outdoor equalibrium. And 6% is kiln dried. 20% moisture is a measuring standard for establishing species specific gravity. Pounds per board feet.
20% moisture is some sort of Industry benchmark. 
30% is guesstimated outdoor campfire wood.(exposed to elements)


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## Jon1270 (Sep 18, 2013)

Applesister said:


> I believe 30% moisture is suposed to be outdoor equalibrium. And 6% is kiln dried. 20% moisture is a measuring standard for establishing species specific gravity. Pounds per board feet. 20% moisture is some sort of Industry benchmark. 30% is guesstimated outdoor campfire wood.(exposed to elements)



Hey, stuff I actually know about.

EMC (outdoors) in most of the US is actually more like 15%.  In extremely dry environments (parts of AZ, NM, CO, NV, CA) it can be substantially lower but it's rarely much higher unless you're talking about wood that's in direct contact with the ground.

There's no particular MC that makes something "kiln dried" but 6-8% is a common recommendation for wood to be used for interior finish material, i.e. furniture, flooring and trim.  Unless you live in the desert, wood generally won't get that dry outside of a kiln.

12% is a more common standard for establishing specific gravity.

I believe 20% is "Semi-Dry,"  the target MC for structural lumber, e.g. studs, plates, rafters, floor joists, headers, etc.

28% is roughly the Fiber Saturation Point, at which point the remaining water is bound up in cell walls but there's no liquid water inside the cells.


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## Bigg_Redd (Sep 18, 2013)

BillLion said:


> I've learned so much here in such a short time. So thank you for all the collective insight!
> 
> So, here's my situation:
> 
> ...



I'd burn the wood you have, then what I'd do is throw that moisture meter in the garbage.  Then I would start cutting next years wood right now.


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## BobUrban (Sep 18, 2013)

I did not read all of this post so may be adding to the redundancy but getting ahead is not that tough if you have two things going for you:
1. access
2. obsession/passion

One of which is out of your hands a bit because some just do not have access - the other is part of most of our DNA on Hearth.  Not right or wrong but I truly enjoy the hunting/gathering phase of firewood as much or more than burning and when/if that passion dies I will go the truck load rout as it is cheaper than gas. 

I gather all my wood between January 1 and typically sometime in March when the ground thaws making access a mess.  with 99% of my effort completed one day a week for the gathering phase working maybe 6hrs per day average.  So I skip a week or two in there and still end up replacing what I burn(4+ cord) and adding to the future with a goal of at least doubling or gathering a minimum of 2yrs worth.  CSS is random nights, weekends, and when I can or feel like it through the spring with 99% done before the leaves are on and the skeeters are out.  Then I take pics of my stash and post them here with all the other wood tics and wait for fall. 

If affordable and available in your situation and IF I knew I could not get ahead for next season I would strongly consider buying 1-2yrs worth now.  Get it CSS'd over the winter and start next year with good wood and a years+ supply.  Buying in bulk - or super bulk will land you the best deal so consider and shop for a full jag of wood vs. a few delivered cords IMO.


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## MrWhoopee (Sep 18, 2013)

BobUrban said:


> with all the other wood tics


 
I develop wood tics too.   When I can't get out and cut, split or gather for a few weeks weird things start to happen. Heidi is getting worried.


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## BillLion (Sep 18, 2013)

Bigg_Redd said:


> I'd burn the wood you have, then what I'd do is throw that moisture meter in the garbage.  Then I would start cutting next years wood right now.



I know a moisture meter isn't 100% accurate, but don't you think they help at least give a ballpark on where the wood is?


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## BillLion (Sep 18, 2013)

BobUrban said:


> I did not read all of this post so may be adding to the redundancy but getting ahead is not that tough if you have two things going for you:
> 1. access
> 2. obsession/passion
> 
> One of which is out of your hands a bit because some just do not have access - the other is part of most of our DNA on Hearth.  Not right or wrong but I truly enjoy the hunting/gathering phase of firewood as much or more than burning and when/if that passion dies I will go the truck load rout as it is cheaper than gas.



Yeah, I actually truly enjoy the process of finding and then CSS. I have a very sedentary job, so I like the physical work, handling the wood, being outside, planning for my family, all of it. My challenge is just time as I had mentioned earlier. I get out a few days a week (even if it's just an hour or 2), but I probably need to have one of these "work parties" others have mentioned to get ahead so maintenance will be effective.


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## Jon1270 (Sep 18, 2013)

BillLion said:


> I know a moisture meter isn't 100% accurate, but don't you think they help at least give a ballpark on where the wood is?



Up to FSP (around 28%) they can be usefully accurate.  Over 28%, damn near meaningless.


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## Laurent Cyr (Sep 18, 2013)

CMAG said:


> 310


 Wow!  Ok.  How many cords do you think that equates to?  Do you burn 24/7, or evenings and night?  Just curious.  I know that Envi Blocks are sold in my area too.


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## CMAG (Sep 18, 2013)

16,000,000 BTU same as pellets. so like a chord of soft/ hard wood but fits in the space of a face chord and no bugs so indoor storage okay
Yea pricey $$$ but no such thing as seasoned wood for sale around my neck of the woods
I mix em with green wood and do one burn blocks only every day or two to keep flue clean as they burn hot
last year burned all green wood mixed with some pallet wood not fun.
I figure 200 gall oil at $730 is about 24.5 million BTU vs $730 in blocks is about 37.5 million BTU so still ahead of the game
Yea I burn 24/7


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## red oak (Sep 18, 2013)

BillLion said:


> Good idea! It's amazing how powerful of an incentive ice cream can be.
> 
> When you say regardless of MC, is there a level you'd max at when burning?



Well, I don't own a moisture meter so I can't really answer that.  I know that when I first started burning I would burn wood that had only been split days or weeks.  I don't want to go back to that ever.  So if you have wood that has been split since January you are going to be better off than a lot of wood burners (just not many on this forum!).  So I would burn the driest non-oak wood that I had, or the wood that has been split the longest.  If I had to burn the oak I would mix it with other species on an already hot fire.  Not ideal by any stretch but it can get you through.  Check your chimney regularly and frequently and clean as needed.


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## Bigg_Redd (Sep 18, 2013)

BillLion said:


> I know a moisture meter isn't 100% accurate, but don't you think they help at least give a ballpark on where the wood is?



Maybe.  But I think they cause more heart burn than they're worth.


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## BillLion (Sep 19, 2013)

red oak said:


> So if you have wood that has been split since January you are going to be better off than a lot of wood burners (just not many on this forum!).



You got that right! 2 & 3 years for lots of these guys!


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## Lumber-Jack (Sep 19, 2013)

I read this thread and I realize just how fortunate I am to have access to trees that are dry enough to burn right away. Like the original poster, I would probably run out of room if I had to get 3 years ahead with my wood stores, unless I started doing something drastic like using the driveway for my wood stacks and parking the car across the street.
Some are suggesting the OP burn the unseasoned wood he already has, but he mentioned he just had his chimney "professionally" cleaned. This suggest to me that he may not have his own chimney cleaning tools, and/or is perhaps is not confident in doing this himself. If that is the case I don't think it's a good idea for him to burn high moisture content wood that he knows will creosote up his chimney quickly, unless he does in fact have the tools and plans on becoming very familiar with cleaning his own chimney, and doing so very regularly.
Buying wood is an option, if the OP feels it is worth it. First of all it could cost just as much as his alternate heating source to burn, especially if it is unseasoned and he burns it right away, as we know unseasoned wood doesn't burn very efficiently.
On the other hand, if he buys the wood now to use 3 years from now, he'll have to calculate if that long term investment is worth the cost. 3 cord X $200 per cord = $900 for something you can't touch for 3 years and maybe don't even have room for in the first place. Might be well worth it if all he needs is 3 cords a year and his current heating bill is double that or more, but does he have that money to invest right now? Only he knows. it's really a mater of doing some serious, realistic number crunching.


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## chazcarr (Sep 19, 2013)

I was at the Big E last week and saw a guy selling biobricks.  The factory is actually in CT.  I took his card but did not purchase any.  It appears they are made out of sawdust and horse manure.  Interesting.  

Has anyone ever tried these?  They are sold by the ton and have a good price point for helping get ahead.

Website is here.    He was selling for $250 a ton at the fair.


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## NortheastAl (Sep 19, 2013)

chazcarr said:


> I was at the Big E last week and saw a guy selling biobricks.  The factory is actually in CT.  I took his card but did not purchase any.  It appears they are made out of sawdust and horse manure.  Interesting.
> 
> Has anyone ever tried these?  They are sold by the ton and have a good price point for helping get ahead.
> 
> Website is here.    He was selling for $250 a ton at the fair.


$250 a ton is a good proce, but I guess you have to cart them home form the fair. 

Since when are they using horse manure? They used to be 100% wood.


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## NortheastAl (Sep 19, 2013)

Looked at their website and cannot find the makeup of the bricks. This is a different company than BioBricks, which is all wood. 

They show a horse's head on some of the pages, so maybe they are adding horse manure.  I cannot figure out why horse manure brings anything useful to the biomass product.


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## oldspark (Sep 19, 2013)

Bigg_Redd said:


> Maybe.  But I think they cause more heart burn than they're worth.


 
Only if the MM is smarter then you, have no idea why any one would have trouble with something as simple as a MM.


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## MrWhoopee (Sep 19, 2013)

oldspark said:


> Only if the MM is smarter then you, have no idea why any one would have trouble with something as simple as a MM.


People become fixated on "the number", forgetting that the device is not that accurate, the readings vary between species of wood and 21% wood will actually burn. It's much like the people who claim that their Prius gets 50mpg because the gauge says so. Sometimes.


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## oldspark (Sep 19, 2013)

MrWhoopee said:


> People become fixated on "the number", forgetting that the device is not that accurate, the readings vary between species of wood and 21% wood will actually burn. It's much like the people who claim that their Prius gets 50mpg because the gauge says so. Sometimes.


 
Well we expect people to learn all the things that go along with wood burning and cutting wood but they cant learn to use a MM, I think you sell people short.
I bought one just because I was curious and they in fact are plenty accurate for our purposes, I have tested newly cut wood all the way to construction lumber and every thing in between, Oak, White Ash, Green Ash, Mulberry, Cherry, Elm, and Silver Maple and a couple I have forgot and all the readings were in line with my 35 years of expeirence. Just a play thing for me but a good thing for many people.
 The people who have trouble with MM's are more then likely haveing trouble with other things also, wood burning is easy once you learn all the ins and outs and a MM is one tool that will help them get there.


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## Lumber-Jack (Sep 19, 2013)

oldspark said:


> Well we expect people to learn all the things that go along with wood burning and cutting wood but they cant learn to use a MM, I think you sell people short.
> I bought one just because I was curious and they in fact are plenty accurate for our purposes, I have tested newly cut wood all the way to construction lumber and every thing in between, Oak, White Ash, Green Ash, Mulberry, Cherry, Elm, and Silver Maple and a couple I have forgot and all the readings were in line with my 35 years of expeirence. Just a play thing for me but a good thing for many people.
> The people who have trouble with MM's are more then likely haveing trouble with other things also, wood burning is easy once you learn all the ins and outs and a MM is one tool that will help them get there.


If handling a MM is giving them trouble can you imagine the frustration they must be having trying to run a chainsaw! Yikes! 

No MM aren't perfectly accurate, but they are probably more accurate than the gas gauge in your car, or your typical wood stove thermometer, or a lot of other gauges we commonly read everyday. Why should a MM need to be any more accurate than the gas gauge on your car? If your MM is telling you your wood MC is reading anywhere between 10% and 22% that aught to be close enough I would think.


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## chazcarr (Sep 19, 2013)

NortheastAl said:


> $250 a ton is a good proce, but I guess you have to cart them home form the fair.
> 
> Since when are they using horse manure? They used to be 100% wood.



I watched the video on their site.  Owner says that they have a lot of manure around and that it burns better than wood.  At the fair the $250 is actually for delivery in CT or MA


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## Lumber-Jack (Sep 19, 2013)

chazcarr said:


> I watched the video on their site.  Owner says that they have a lot of manure around and that it burns better than wood.  At the fair the $250 is actually for delivery in CT or MA


You sure that manure is not just BS?


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## BillLion (Sep 19, 2013)

Lumber-Jack said:


> If handling a MM is giving them trouble can you imagine the frustration they must be having trying to run a chainsaw! Yikes!
> 
> No MM aren't perfectly accurate, but they are probably more accurate than the gas gauge in your car, or your typical wood stove thermometer, or a lot of other gauges we commonly read everyday. Why should a MM need to be any more accurate than the gas gauge on your car? If your MM is telling you your wood MC is reading anywhere between 10% and 22% that aught to be close enough I would think.



I had no problem learning a MM or more recently a chainsaw, but to your previous point, I am uncomfortable (and lack the tools & training for) cleaning my own fireplace. I did just have a full stainless steel liner installed. Does that factor in? Also, I am somewhat skeptical but would burning something like this once a month help?


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## Lumber-Jack (Sep 19, 2013)

BillLion said:


> I had no problem learning a MM or more recently a chainsaw, but to your previous point, I am uncomfortable (and lack the tools & training for) cleaning my own fireplace. I did just have a full stainless steel liner installed. Does that factor in? Also, I am somewhat skeptical but would burning something like this once a month help?


I have no experience with those things you burn in your stove to (help) keep your chimney clean. From what I have read here in the forum, from people who have used them, they do help, to some degree, to keep the creosote less sticky and drier. But even dry creosote build up needs to be swept out regularly.
Sweeping a chimney can be pretty easy, you just have to figure out whether you'll be sweeping yours from below, or up on the roof. If your chimney is a straight run it's usually a piece of cake and any chimney rods will do, if it has bends in the chimney you might want to get one of those more flexible rod system,,,, can't remember the name of them, perhaps somebody else knows what they are called?


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## Seanm (Sep 19, 2013)

BillLion said:


> I had no problem learning a MM or more recently a chainsaw, but to your previous point, I am uncomfortable (and lack the tools & training for) cleaning my own fireplace. I did just have a full stainless steel liner installed. Does that factor in? Also, I am somewhat skeptical but would burning something like this once a month help?


 I remember asking the fire department what they thought of these and they told me it may help but weren't aware of any studies saying that they could recommend replacing a good sweep with one of these.


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## oldspark (Sep 19, 2013)

Seanm said:


> I remember asking the fire department what they thought of these and they told me it may help but weren't aware of any studies saying that they could recommend replacing a good sweep with one of these.


 
I have to think a good look see and cleaning will be your best bet, no wondering how clean the chimney is.


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## MrWhoopee (Sep 19, 2013)

I have a two-stage early warning system. Stage one is the sound of creosote tinkling down my stovepipe. It sounds a little like rain. Stage two is when the stove starts drawing poorly. The creosote flakes falling down the pipe obstruct the exit from the stove. This all happens long before there is significant accumlation on the pipe wall.


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## brakatak (Sep 19, 2013)

for those that mentioned using the EnviBlocks,  are you using just to supplement with semi-seasoned wood?   like using 1 Envi with a bunch of splits ?       Would this help prevent creosote because your stove is burning hotter??


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## NortheastAl (Sep 19, 2013)

BillLion said:


> I had no problem learning a MM or more recently a chainsaw, but to your previous point, I am uncomfortable (and lack the tools & training for) cleaning my own fireplace. I did just have a full stainless steel liner installed. Does that factor in? Also, I am somewhat skeptical but would burning something like this once a month help?


No matter what, you still need to clean your chimney/flue. It'll even say it on the log packaging. 

I use the Rutland little tubes that you toss on a fire, every few weeks. I cleaned the flue with a Sooteater and it came out very clean. The Chimney Sweep log has similar components as the Rutland, and it makes the creosote flaky. Easier to clean flaky than gooey.


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## BillLion (Sep 19, 2013)

Lumber-Jack said:


> I have no experience with those things you burn in your stove to (help) keep your chimney clean. From what I have read here in the forum, from people who have used them, they do help, to some degree, to keep the creosote less sticky and drier. But even dry creosote build up needs to be swept out regularly.
> Sweeping a chimney can be pretty easy, you just have to figure out whether you'll be sweeping yours from below, or up on the roof. If your chimney is a straight run it's usually a piece of cake and any chimney rods will do, if it has bends in the chimney you might want to get one of those more flexible rod system,,,, can't remember the name of them, perhaps somebody else knows what they are called?



I'll look into that. Thanks!


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## BillLion (Sep 19, 2013)

MrWhoopee said:


> I have a two-stage early warning system. Stage one is the sound of creosote tinkling down my stovepipe. It sounds a little like rain. Stage two is when the stove starts drawing poorly. The creosote flakes falling down the pipe obstruct the exit from the stove. This all happens long before there is significant accumlation on the pipe wall.



Very helpful; thanks! I actually did hear the creosote "rain" before I had it cleaned recently.


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## Backwoods Savage (Sep 19, 2013)

BillLion said:


> I know a moisture meter isn't 100% accurate, but don't you think they help at least give a ballpark on where the wood is?



They can if used right. Still, I have found no use for one for over 50 years and have no plans on buying one ever.


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## Backwoods Savage (Sep 19, 2013)

BillLion said:


> Very helpful; thanks! I actually did hear the creosote "rain" before I had it cleaned recently.




Bill, there is a very good reason why most of us recommend new wood burners check their chimneys monthly for their first couple years.


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## andymsr1 (Sep 19, 2013)

red oak said:


> If I had the wood I would burn it, rather than buy it, regardless of the moisture content.  Check the chimney often and mix drier wood with greener.  Just like Dennis said, get ahead a little more each year, devote an hour or so a few days a week, and it'll add up pretty quick.
> 
> As for the kids, they can be a great help.  I will split for about 15-20 minutes, then call them out.  I'll tell them they stack while I keep splitting.  When they catch up with me we're done and get ice cream.
> 
> Works for older people too if you want to promise beer!



Hahaha!  That was hilarious and insightful.  Good for the first time burner like me.  Can't wait till my little one is big enough to help stack wood!


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## Lumber-Jack (Sep 19, 2013)

BillLion said:


> . I did just have a full stainless steel liner installed. Does that factor in?


Absolutely!  Stainless steel liners are even easier to clean than masonry chimneys.
As I said, you just have to figure out the easiest method of cleaning your particular chimney. If you have easy roof access to your chimney, and don't mind getting up there, that might be the easiest for you. If not, you'll want to look into some method of cleaning from below.Some people can push the rods and brush right up through the stove door opening, others disconnect the lower stove pipe to gain access. In some case the flue has a T in the line (usually external), and they remove a cap on the bottom of the T to feed the brush up from.
There is no right or wrong way of doing it, but they all have pros and cons. Once you figure out your system and do it a couple times it's gets pretty easy and straight forward.
I clean my chimney from the roof, I like it because the creosote just falls down into the stove where it can be burned with the next fire. Also I can better clean the chimney cap from above, something that can be a bit tougher to do thoroughly from below.  Cleaning from below you have to figure out some system of catching, or avoiding, the creosote as it falls down the flue while you are running the brush up there.


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## CMAG (Sep 19, 2013)

brakatak said:


> for those that mentioned using the EnviBlocks,  are you using just to supplement with semi-seasoned wood?   like using 1 Envi with a bunch of splits ?       Would this help prevent creosote because your stove is burning hotter??


I plan on mixing  blocks and splits and a burn of just blocks every day or two
A friend burns green wood (oak) mixed with pea coal and coal only 2 x a week (in a fat boy coal cook stove) he say flue stays clean.


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## Ram 1500 with an axe... (Sep 19, 2013)

BillLion said:


> I know a moisture meter isn't 100% accurate, but don't you think they help at least give a ballpark on where the wood is?


Yes...


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## BillLion (Sep 20, 2013)

Lumber-Jack said:


> Absolutely!  Stainless steel liners are even easier to clean than masonry chimneys.
> As I said, you just have to figure out the easiest method of cleaning your particular chimney. If you have easy roof access to your chimney, and don't mind getting up there, that might be the easiest for you. If not, you'll want to look into some method of cleaning from below.Some people can push the rods and brush right up through the stove door opening, others disconnect the lower stove pipe to gain access. In some case the flue has a T in the line (usually external), and they remove a cap on the bottom of the T to feed the brush up from.
> There is no right or wrong way of doing it, but they all have pros and cons. Once you figure out your system and do it a couple times it's gets pretty easy and straight forward.
> I clean my chimney from the roof, I like it because the creosote just falls down into the stove where it can be burned with the next fire. Also I can better clean the chimney cap from above, something that can be a bit tougher to do thoroughly from below.  Cleaning from below you have to figure out some system of catching, or avoiding, the creosote as it falls down the flue while you are running the brush up there.




Thanks, again. Will definitely watch this!


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## chazcarr (Dec 28, 2013)

Brickenmore said:


> Brickenmore products are made using horse manure, it is not a wood based product.  They do burn hotter and longer than competitive sawdust bricks, and price does not fluctuate due to availability.  Delivery is available (at a small cost). They have been granted the USDA 100% biomass product label.



Is the $250 a ton the correct price?


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## Enzo's Dad (Dec 28, 2013)

Brickenmore said:


> Horse manure is a major non-point contaminant to the watersheds and lands.  Brickenmore has a solution of providing an affordable heating source, which is renewable.  The product is patented and has been awarded the USDA 100% Biopreferred product label.  In consideration of the composition of these bricks, they do burn hotter and longer than current "saw dust" bricks on the market, while assisting with removal of contaminants.  Keep in mind, these products are patented, and their composition does contain manure.


 
Hey I would  like to try this product out, I live in CT and work in springfiled MA. do you sell these from your address in Ellington?
Do you have a sample size?


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## BillLion (Dec 28, 2013)

Funny timing on this thread being resurrected today. 

With the help of a fellow Hearther I located a seller who had dry wood and had a cord delivered today. 16-22% on a bunch of test splits (yes, freshly split then measured). This will allow the rest of my wood to be stretched out for this season. Next season I shouldn't have to buy any!


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## Enzo's Dad (Dec 28, 2013)

BillLion said:


> Funny timing on this thread being resurrected today.
> 
> With the help of a fellow Hearther I located a seller who had dry wood and had a cord delivered today. 16-22% on a bunch of test splits (yes, freshly split then measured). This will allow the rest of my wood to be stretched out for this season. Next season I shouldn't have to buy any!


 

Get a bucket truck to my house in Canton Ill let you take a cord in dead ash away. I have two huge dead ash trees near my house. I wont go neat them without a highlift or bucket truck.


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## BillLion (Dec 29, 2013)

Enzo's Dad said:


> Get a bucket truck to my house in Canton Ill let you take a cord in dead ash away. I have two huge dead ash trees near my house. I wont go neat them without a highlift or bucket truck.



Very kind of you to offer, but the closest vehicle I have is a minivan!  Happy New Year!!


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## chazcarr (Dec 30, 2013)

BillLion said:


> Funny timing on this thread being resurrected today.
> 
> With the help of a fellow Hearther I located a seller who had dry wood and had a cord delivered today. 16-22% on a bunch of test splits (yes, freshly split then measured). This will allow the rest of my wood to be stretched out for this season. Next season I shouldn't have to buy any!



Who is that?  if you cold message me their contact info.  Would love to buy dry wood.


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## BillLion (Dec 30, 2013)

chazcarr said:


> Who is that?  if you cold message me their contact info.  Would love to buy dry wood.



Just sent you the details in a message. Good luck!


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