# tent / camping gear



## Ashful (Apr 20, 2014)

So, the 4-yo boy is starting to ask about camping out, which to him means, in our back yard.  I used to do a good bit of camping and boy scouts when I was young, but pretty much dropped it for other pursuits in middle school, so my array of gear is almost non-existent at this point.

No need to jump into this too big yet, though... he's only 4.  I'm thinking a tent and two sleeping bags in the back yard might get us thru this summer.  Maybe two mess kits and a water jug for cooking by the fire pit.

I have no disillusions that whatever gear we buy him (or myself) now is going to carry us through him making Eagle Scout, so I'm just looking for some basic mid-grade gear.  A tent that might last us five or six years of a half dozen uses per year, and adult and child summer sleeping bags, to start.

Suggestions?  I was at Walmart yesterday, and saw the Coleman and Ozark Trail tents, which are astoundingly inexpensive, but maybe good enough?  I remember my father and I did our first several camping trips (Indian Guides and Cub Scouts) in a really crappy little nylon two-man pup-tent.  Our feet would always get wet where they'd touch the edge of the tent, but even so... we had a lot of fun.


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## Swedishchef (Apr 20, 2014)

You would be surprised! A friend of mine is a pro mountain climber. He has summitted 4 of the 7 summits of the world. He still has a tent from 14 years ago! It all depends on what you pay for...

What's your budget? Personally I have a backpacking tent for 3 (which means tight 2). SOmething like this may be of interest http://www.rei.com/product/777757/rei-camp-dome-4-tent and it would last several years. Especially for backyard camping. my advice: go big! What I mean: if the tent is for 4 people by the company standards, than it is really for 3. So if you want a 2 person tent, look at one that is for 4 people.

In the camping department if you pay peanuts, you'll get monkeys. Right now he may just want to camp in the backyard but next year he may want to go to campgrounds. And wet/damp kids at a campground sucks.

A


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## midwestcoast (Apr 21, 2014)

What ever you do, get one with a full fly and not something 'astoundingly inexpensive'. Some disappointing features of cheap tents include: 
Condensation inside due to lack of ventilation; 
Rain wicking through body material wherever a sleeping bag, pillow or elbow is touching the wall;
Water coming up through floors in heavy rain;
Zippers hopelessly jammed when you NEED to get out in the middle of the night & take care of business;
Flimsy poles that bend in a stiff breeze until your dome is flattened to a pancake.
None of these make a boy (or man for that matter) want to sleep in a tent again.  Spend a few bucks for something that'll stand a bit of weather.

If you're not sure he'll be scouting/backpacking then a car camping tent will still be useful for family trips and will be cheaper.  Without getting into the primo brands:  Alps, Eureka, REI, Kelty are good brands to look for inexpensive but not cheap.


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## Ashful (Apr 21, 2014)

Thanks for the link, Andrew.  Any specific models you like, midwest?  Budget is $50 - $800, or put otherwise... TBD.  I can afford a good tent, but having seen the garages of friends and neighbors filled with expensive toys barely used, usually like to avoid spending too much on anything until I have some assurance it will be used and appreciated.  The one Andrew posted at $200 may fit the bill, but would still like to see a few other options!

Thanks!


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## johneh (Apr 21, 2014)

We bought this tent for our Scout Troop and our Rover Crew
They have been a very good investment are very well put together
and are not to costly . They say 4 man but we only put 2 to 3 a tent
http://store.eurekatent.com/timberline-sq-outfitter-4-tent


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## semipro (Apr 21, 2014)

I'd start with a basic dome tent.  In my experience, even a relatively inexpensive tent will get a lot of use. I started with something like this and it got lots of use.  I later went on to more expensive, lighter, more durable backpacking tents but the original dome still gets used. 
Something like this: http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___29020#  or this http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___28492


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## bassJAM (Apr 21, 2014)

To just get a 4 year old through the summer in the back yard, I'd just get whatever's cheapest from Walmart.  If you both decide you like it, you can move on to a better brand that will last.  A cheap tent will keep the bugs out, and might even keep you dry in a light rain, but for hard use I'd invest in a good brand like midwestcoast mentioned.  I've become a huge fan of Alps tents, I've picked 2 up from a website called Steepandcheap.com, which often has pretty good deals on outdoor type clearance items.

Same with sleeping bags, a cheap version will get you through the summer, and if you both like it then spend some money on a decent one.  It won't matter for summer, but if he does get into Scouts and camps year round (we'd often did most of our camping from October-March) remember that temp ratings are the temperature at which you won't freeze!  Use about 10°-20° lower for actual comfort ratings.

As far as cookware, I'd pass on those aluminum mess kits you see at Walmart or Dick's Sporting Goods.  They are hard to cook in, and an absolute pain to clean.  If I don't have to walk far from the car to set up camp, I find it's hard to beat a cast iron skillet and old metal spatula for cooking, and cheap plastic plates and cups and some old dinnerware work great to eat on.  If I'm backpacking, I've got expensive camp/backpacking specific cookware, but it's not worth the money if you aren't backpacking.


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## BrotherBart (Apr 21, 2014)

Wish you were closer. Nice big tent in the basement that was used for one trip. Set up three times.


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## Fi-Q (Apr 21, 2014)

I bought a somewhat cheap wal mart tent  ( approx 100$ then, i think its a coleman) approx 6 years ago for a 2 weeks west coast trip. Our first night in Banff save us 200$, camping compare to hotels, so it paid for the whole camping kit. I still have the ten and have used it a few time thru the years. Same with sleeping bag, I have two of the same model/brand so you can zip them together, it can help to keep the kid warmer if he is in the same sleeping bag as you. I would say start with cheap and upgrade as needed. A cheap tent can also be left for a while as a play tent in the back yard.

One thing, if you get a camping stove! I was wondering why coleman have the same looking stove at diffrent price tag. I have te cheap one and can't barely adjust the flame intensity, it all or nothing. Dad have a same looking stove that he paid double what I paid mine and he can really adjut it from simmering to full heat!! I should have paid the extra on the coleman stove!


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## Swedishchef (Apr 21, 2014)

I could show you lots of models that cost more and are better but the fact is, you don't want to spend too much and not get your money out of it. The nice thing about tents by Kelty, REI, etc is that say you only use it a few times, you can take 25% off the price you paid and get your money back selling it used. nobody will buy a used wal mart tent.

It all depends on your budget. Camping is AWESOME when people stay dry, warm and cozy.

ANdrew


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## stoveguy2esw (Apr 21, 2014)

have an Ozark from walmart at home had for several years used a fair amount, its held up quite well and is quite easy to put up and take down to store. would buy another if i neeeded another tent probably without doing any other shopping around


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## thinkxingu (Apr 21, 2014)

There are some things worth spending money on now and others that aren't.  Here's my advice:

1. Buy the absolute cheapest tent you can find now that will fit the two of you without hitting sides/ends (cheap here could mean a good deal on a used higher-end tent on craigslist or a Walmart special).  That's because your needs for a tent will change through the years--I have a 3-person Coleman dome, 2-person Walrus, 2-person Mountain Hardware, 8-person 2-room Eureka and a 2-person custom TarpTent by Henry Shires--all of them serving different purposes, from car camping to winter camping, to ultra lightweight 1/2 night excursions, etc.

2. Buy very good down sleeping bags.  This is a personal choice, but I've just simply never been warm enough in a synthetic bag.  Down bags with from a company with a good reputation will last forever and grow with your l'il buddy.  Nothing's worse than being cold.  And good sleeping bags can be used for sleepovers, car camping, backpacking, etc.  Also, down settles nicely so I'm not sure I'd even buy a kid's bag--I think I'd go right to a small adult.

3. Skip the crappy canteens and buy Nalgene water bottles.  If you end up camping more, hiking, backpacking, or drinking water in your kitchen, Nalgenes are useful.

4. If the cheap mess kits are cheap enough, buy a couple and be done for now--you'll probably only be cooking burgs or dogs for the moment.  In the future, a rocket stove, titanium spork and pot, and freeze-dried foods might be in your future.

Essentially, anything that you'll be able to use going forward, is flexible, or has good resale value I would spring the money for.  There is no doubt that better camping gear equals a better camping  experience, and this is a make-or-break opportunity with l'il buddy.

Good luck!


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## Ashful (Apr 21, 2014)

Great advice, guys!  Keep it coming.

However I will say that money spent on a tent is probably more about keeping dad happy, than the kid(s).  Simply put, I don't think they're nearly as bothered by the stuff that keeps us awake in the woods at night.  Any camping we do (for now) will be fair weather scheduled.

Good points on the mess kits.  I had several of those stamped aluminum kits as a kid... mostly one-time use.  They're too difficult to clean, for any kid to bother.  I'd usually bring them home to mom, burnt and dirty.  My most successful camp cooking all took place in rolled-up tinfoil or on a stick.


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## midwestcoast (Apr 21, 2014)

I agree with bassJAM that for backyard use, about anything will do. You'll be picking nice nights and can always bail if surprise weather blows in.
I guess the point that I didn't make very well is that you can get a good family car camping tent for less than the latest/greatest backpacking tent and it can serve you for family outings for many years in much more comfort.
Wait 'till you see if he (or you since it's been a few years...) like it before getting dedicated backcountry gear.

Also, for summer back yard camping I don't see a need for sleeping bags. Sheets & comforters will do just fine down to 60 or so. Some kind of foam or air matress is needed though, especially for you, so you can stand-up in the morning.

I used to be into backcountry endeavors in a pretty big way & was admittedly a gear junky. I still have 5 tents, 3 sleeping bags, 5 stoves... even after giving some stuff away.
Now with a toddler I have to stick closer to trailheads, but we still get out there a bit. She's been on half a dozen camping trips & went on her first multi-day canoe trip at 17 months. Had a blast!


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## Ashful (Apr 21, 2014)

midwestcoast said:


> I used to be into backcountry endeavors in a pretty big way & was admittedly a gear junky. I still have 5 tents, 3 sleeping bags, 5 stoves... even after giving some stuff away.
> Now with a toddler I have to stick closer to trailheads, but we still get out there a bit. She's been on half a dozen camping trips & went on her first multi-day canoe trip at 17 months. Had a blast!


Impressive, with the toddler.  I don't think I could talk my wife into that, but she thinks staying in a hotel is "roughing it."

Interesting mention of the stoves.  I don't think I ever owned a camp stove, having just always cooked on coals from a fire.  My only camping gear was bag, tent, backpack, liquid fuel lantern (old skool), canteen and mess kit.  If I were buying a new lantern for camping or backpacking today, I'd probably go propane, but I have two liquid fuel Coleman's in good working order.


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## Fi-Q (Apr 21, 2014)

As far as lantern goes, a good old propane or liquid fuel is a good thing to get the chill of a tent, but I find it dangerous with kids around. After a lot of online reading, I bought this LED lantern. Pretty compact and AA batteries, most of the compact one use AAA wich are a lot more expensive.

http://www.amazon.com/Rayovac-Sport...id=1398124177&sr=8-5&keywords=rayovac+lantern

I did used it a few time and I like it. The kids are using it a lot as well, amd for the price, I think it´s a good investment !


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## Ashful (Apr 21, 2014)

cool.  I never even thought of putting a lantern IN a tent!  Sounds very dangerous, kids or no.  We always kept the liquid fuel lanterns outside the tent, in the gathering area / picnic table.


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## Fi-Q (Apr 21, 2014)

Hehe, yeah I guess it is not safe at all, but beleie me, 30 min with the lantern in the tens really help to take the chill out before going to sleep But don't try this at home


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## osagebow (Apr 21, 2014)

How's your back? Airbeds make that morning hike a lot easier. And make it easier to get the wife to go again. 

I've had a coleman sundome for 12 years, has held up to a lot. Have even seen it flipped over, used as a UFC cage, and even rolling across the yard with my 2 giant gerbils in it. (Had to replace 1 pole).

Very impressed with the Eureka traditional style we use in scouts, also.

Have a blast!


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## Swedishchef (Apr 21, 2014)

FWIW, lanters in tents CAN be safe. Trust me, I use them all the time: http://www.rei.com/product/838879/uco-original-candle-lantern  No open flame and they take the chill/dampness/dew out of the tent after 20-30 mins. And this beast can put out quite the heat http://www.rei.com/product/624320/uco-candlelier-candle-lantern

For backyard camping air mattresses are great. But if you ever find yourself backpacking with your gear, check this out http://www.rei.com/product/848568/therm-a-rest-luxurymap-sleeping-pad-    It has an R value of almost 7!


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## FanMan (Apr 21, 2014)

As others have said, *don't* waste your money buying crappy walmart gear.  A Eureka dome tent with a rain fly is a good choice, though there are many other good brands.  Some have screen mesh at the top of the dome, under the rain fly, lots better in hot weather.  

I will have to disagree with thinkxingu... you don't want down, unless you're camping in very cold weather or a very dry area.  Once down gets wet, it has zero insulating value.  When a synthetic bag gets wet, it's wet and miserable, but it retains much of its insulating value.  But do buy bags rated colder than the coldest weather you expect until you know what suits you... most ratings are for survival, not comfort.

Don't forget ground pads.  The cheapest and most reliable are simple closed cell foam pads.  Air mattresses may be more comfortable... until they spring a leak. 

Cooking on a fire can be fun, but also an exercise in frustration.  If you're car or backyard camping, a cheap propane stove is probably your best bet.  You can still cook on the fire if you want to, but having the stove to get water hot for your first cup of coffee (or hot chocolate) while you're getting the fire going in the morning can be priceless.

A relatively cool night (think May or September) is a _lot_ nicer than a hot sticky buggy July or August night.  I almost never go camping in the summer any more.

Probably one the best places for camping gear in the US is Campmor.  They're mailorder... but also have a huge retail store in Paramus, NJ, not too far from you in Philly... with staff who know what they're talking about.

Backpacking gear is a whole 'nother story.  There, you pay more (sometimes lots more) for the weight you're not carrying.  For me that means tarp and bivy sack, no tent, liquid fuel stove, titanium cookpot... there's all kinds of neat high tech gear to blow money on...

Have fun, but take it easy.  I took my oldest daughter camping (car camping at a campground, November in Connecticut) for the first time at age 10 months, first backpacking trip (about a half mile in the woods behind the house) at around age 3.  First "real" backpacking trip with both girls, around age 5&6, we walked about a mile and a half from the car to a lake in the state forest (looping around so we actually camped only about 1/4 mile from the car, just in case).  Now my daughters are 24 & 25, and still like to go backpacking either with me or with their boyfriends.


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## firefighterjake (Apr 21, 2014)

Mixed feelings ... if you're just camping in decent weather with little to no chance of rain and want to save some money until you can decide if you want to do more camping the stuff at Wal-Mart is fine ... but if it rains prepare for a miserable experience. Had an Academy tent that I used for years and it was fine ... until the first time I got caught in the rain. Terrible sleep ... woke up cold and soaking wet.

My sister bought me a Mountain Hardwear tent and I haven't looked back ... have weathered many a storm and have woke up dry every time. I did however forget my tent on Columbus Day weekend when I went to the Woodstock stove open house a few years back. Fortunately there was a LL Bean in Hanover ... where I realized my mistake ... for about $40 more than the Wal-Mart tent I picked up another decent back up tent.

Sleeping bags ... some day I need to upgrade ... but for now I mostly camp in the summer so my cheap Coleman sleeping bags work fine for my needs.

The rest of the gear ... depends on your level of involvement and what you plan to do. A buddy of mine loves to cook so he has cast iron pans, Dutch ovens and all kinds of other stuff ... me ... I'm often happy with some red hotdogs skewered on a stick and roasted over an open fire with some Poptarts for breakfast.


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## BrotherBart (Apr 21, 2014)

Good grief. We are talking about camping in the backyard with a four year old. Not summitting Everest.


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## Ashful (Apr 21, 2014)

Bro Bart nailed it.  A major expedition, it is not!

Coleman Sundome will do me just fine... just gotta decide 3- or 4-person.  It'll probably get used mostly by me and one or two of the kids, but maybe the wife will join us for one or two excursions.

Went to buy some summer weight sleeping bags, and ran into an unexpected issue.  I'm just a hair over 5' 11" and weight 175 lb.  Most of the sleeping bags are listed for folks "up to 5 feet 11 inches", which I'm apparently at or slightly above.  Then all the bags beyond that are "big and tall", apparently more for fat folks than tall (they all jump from 33" wide to 39" wide).  I did see one site that claimed a tall person of "below average weight" (I guess I am... only by American standards) would do well in a standard bag, but could find no other recommendations to corroborate.

Any bag recommendations?  I was mostly looking at the Coleman 40F - 60F (warm weather) bags.  Again, no need for $150 sleeping bags for back-yard camping.  In fact, I'd be fine with a blanket on our air mattress, but I know the kid wants to sleep in a sleeping bag.  Besides, every house should have a few sleeping bags.  We have none.


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## aussiedog3 (Apr 21, 2014)

A good used or new Eureka or REI will get him through Eagle Scout.  That could only be 10-11 years away.
+1 on one with a good rain fly and get cheap blue tarp about the footprint of the tent to use as a ground cloth under the tent.
Get a sleeping bag of synthetic material, generally easier to dry and you will be warmer in it if you do sweat or get wet.
Outdoor survival tip #1.  Cotton kills.


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## aussiedog3 (Apr 21, 2014)

Tent sizes seem to be rated way on the high side considering persons only and no gear.
You might get 3 people in a 3-4man tent and no gear. 
Figure on half as many people as the tent is rated for, and will probably fit normal gear like a backpack or duffle bag and a pair of boots.


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## Ashful (Apr 21, 2014)

aussiedog3 said:


> Tent sizes seem to be rated way on the high side considering persons only and no gear.
> You might get 3 people in a 3-4man tent and no gear.
> Figure on half as many people as the tent is rated for, and will probably fit normal gear like a backpack or duffle bag and a pair of boots.


Interesting.  We used to always figure one of the "men" in the tent was the gear.  So, "4-man" tent = 3 people plus gear.

In our case, it will almost always be 1 adult + 1 or 2 children.  Very occasionally maybe 2 adults + 2 children... but the chil'uns are small.


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## Swedishchef (Apr 22, 2014)

BrotherBart said:


> Good grief. We are talking about camping in the backyard with a four year old. Not summitting Everest.


 
I agree. But Joful did say that his budget ran to $800. And I am a believer in buying something ONCE, not 5 times in my life if possible. Investing $250 in a decent tent once is better than panicking and running out at the last minute to find another tent when you notice 3 of your poles are bent and the tent won't allow to be setup anymore. Or after 2 weekends in the backyard, you kid says "Jimmy's dad took him to this awesome state park nearby, can we go next weekend?". You could always setup tarps with ropes (in trees) over the tent in a good rain but that too sucks: running around as the rain starts. Trust me, this is from a 33 year old with plenty of camping experience. I have had walmart tents, canadian tire tents and now I only buy Sierre Design tents.

ANdrew


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## Swedishchef (Apr 22, 2014)

Joful said:


> Interesting.  We used to always figure one of the "men" in the tent was the gear.  So, "4-man" tent = 3 people plus gear.
> 
> In our case, it will almost always be 1 adult + 1 or 2 children.  Very occasionally maybe 2 adults + 2 children... but the chil'uns are small.


 
Trust me,..if there's gonna be 4 people in the tent, get a 4 person tent (or 5 ish...especially if you're getting a cheaper priced tent, the budget will allow for it). Even if the kids are small. They will wanna wiggle and move around a bit. they wont just get in the tent and sleep within 3 minutes.  I went through this last year.


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## thinkxingu (Apr 22, 2014)

FanMan said:


> I will have to disagree with thinkxingu... you don't want down, unless you're camping in very cold weather or a very dry area. Once down gets wet, it has zero insulating value. When a synthetic bag gets wet, it's wet and miserable, but it retains much of its insulating value.



No love for down, huh? I've had about a dozen bags and none of the synthetics have touched the warmth, weight, breathability (more important to me than water resistance), compressibility, comfort, or longevity of down (I use a Western Mountaineering Megalite I bought for $150 in 2000 in the Whites, which I'll put up against most any area for weather conditions).  And the reality is that the tent and stuff sacks are what keeps things dry--with today's down bags' water resistance feathers and waterproof exteriors, synthetics just can't compete.

OP: if you don't have ANY sleeping bags, two Coleman rectangles would be a good start--those are useful in many ways.  Just don't expect much warmth.

Side story: wife and I were in Arcadia when a brand-new FJ Cruiser pulled in to the site next to us and began to unload the "Walmart Coleman Special Kit": bags, tent, stove, lantern, pads, headlamps--literally EVERYTHING Coleman.  This was late August--days in the low 80's, nights in the 50's--and that couple was up no later than 3 AM shivering by the fire.  There's simply no substitute for good gear.

Sorry for the camping gear derail--to me, part of the fun of packing IS the gear!


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## stoveguy2esw (Apr 22, 2014)

back in the day we used to "camp out" in a GP Medium most of the time


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## Ashful (Apr 22, 2014)

I love down, and have Euro down comforters on our beds, but it's not for kids camping, IMO.  Based on my own experience as a camping kid, they destroy bags way too quick to justify the cost of down.  Also, you CAN get a very warm synth bag, it just won't be as light or compressible.  No matter, we're not backpacking in the arctic...


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## bassJAM (Apr 22, 2014)

Joful said:


> I love down, and have Euro down comforters on our beds, but it's not for kids camping, IMO.  Based on my own experience as a camping kid, they destroy bags way too quick to justify the cost of down.  Also, you CAN get a very warm synth bag, it just won't be as light or compressible.  No matter, we're not backpacking in the arctic...



That's the way to look at it.  Get some cheap gear to get you and your boy outside, because there's a chance it might get destroyed while he's learning the ropes, or heaven forbid, never used again.  Heck, even with I was in Scouts, most of our gear was army surplus or cheap gear from The Sportsman's Guide, and we still had a blast.  We had a record going once with 40 straight camp outs where it rained on us, except for the weekend it never got above 32° when it snowed, and we never once complained about our gear.  Kids will have fun no matter what.  It's only been since I've become an adult and have my own money to spend that I've been buying good camping gear, but I also take better care of it now than I would have as a kid, or even a teenager.

I've been on some great camping and backpacking trips as an adult to some pretty cool places, and love the fact that just about all of my gear is wool / down / synthetic / nonstick / titanium / ultralight / waterproof / overpriced.  But I can't say that I've had any more fun as an adult as I did as a kid in my synthetic sleeping bag, cotton clothes, hand-me-down cookware from Mom's kitchen, sleeping under a tarp because I let the younger kids in the Scout group use the good tents.  It's about the experience, not the gear.  I think as adults we tend to forget about that and want the best of the best and a tool for every job (think about how many of us have CAD).  But kids don't (or at least shouldn't) care about that stuff.


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## Ashful (Apr 22, 2014)

bassJAM said:


> We had a record going once with 40 straight camp outs where it rained on us, except for the weekend it never got above 32° when it snowed, and we never once complained about our gear.


I think we were in the same Troop!


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## thinkxingu (Apr 22, 2014)

"Kids will have fun no matter what."  I can agree to a point. One of my first nights camping out I was real cold for a good portion of the night and I didn't look forward to going again. Luckily for me, the next time I went out I was real comfy in an old military down bag. Those times made an impression on me, and are why I make sure I do everything I can- including spending a little more money on gear- to prevent my 4- and 2-year-olds from having bad experiences.

That being said, a blanket and tarp tent will suffice in warm and dry weather.


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## TradEddie (Apr 23, 2014)

Joful said:


> Bro Bart nailed it.  A major expedition, it is not!.



Good advice, as always from BB.

I've got an expensive backpacking tent that has been through some of the most horrendous weather imaginable, and it has shared my adventures in some amazing places worldwide but when it came time for car-camping with the kids, I bought a nice spacious cheap tent from Target. That was one of my best buys ever. Why be crammed into a small space unless your life depends on it? Four people in a four person tent is very very tight, I think I got  a six person, and there are only four of us. (The good tent still comes in the car, just in case the forecast is wrong, but even the cheap tent has withstood heavy thunderstorms admirably using a tarp as an additional footprint.) 

My second best camping buy ever was a Therm-a-rest. No matter the weather, the comfort of these is worth spending money on.

Sleeping bags are rated for "survival" at the lowest quoted temperature, assuming the sleeper is also wearing appropriate underclothing. You will not be happy sleeping, if you sleep at all, at that lower temperature. Buy the kids cheap sleeping bags for now, with blankets or quilt/duvets on top if necessary. Don't buy a good one for them until they are big enough for an adult bag.

For light, LEDs all the way in this day and age. I still bring the propane lantern, but it rarely gets used anymore.  

TE


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## bassJAM (Apr 23, 2014)

TradEddie said:


> My second best camping buy ever was a Therm-a-rest. No matter the weather, the comfort of these is worth spending money on.



I used to laugh at my dad when he'd camp with us, and sleeping on the ground would ruin his entire day.  Not I'm 31 and completely understand.  Now I've got a cheap foam mattress for just camping, and an ultra light and compressible Stoic air mattress for backpacking.  It makes a WORLD of difference!


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## TradEddie (Apr 23, 2014)

bassJAM said:


> I used to laugh at my dad when he'd camp with us, and sleeping on the ground would ruin his entire day.  Not I'm 31 and completely understand.  Now I've got a cheap foam mattress for just camping, and an ultra light and compressible Stoic air mattress for backpacking.  It makes a WORLD of difference!


Just like me, I camped on a tight budget and always considered those an extravagance, then one time I was given one to use, and I would never be without one now.

TE


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## peakbagger (Apr 23, 2014)

A couple of things to keep in mind on tents.

Any tent put away wet will mildew no matter how expensive it was. Once mildewed throw it away. 

Any tent left in damp place (basement) can deteriorate when stored

UV deteriorates most tents especially synthetics, if you are going to leave they tent up as a play tent for days at a time throw a tarp over it or just buy a walmart special

Nylon tents are usually waterproofed with polyurethane that deteriorates over time, some manufacturers will replace if it happens. Some cheap tents wont last more than a couple of years. The odor of old polyurethane is reminiscent of fresh cut red oak.

Most bug spray destroys water proofing, Spray a tent with it to keep away the bugs doesnt so anything for the bugs and damages the fabric. 

Most synthetic tents are flammable and even the so called fireproofed version can still can damaged from heat. There should be not open flames at all in a tent which is contrary to many folks wanting to use a candle or stove in a tent .

Most Scout troops buy tents with two doors. It cuts down on a lot of traffic through the tent and is safer. 

Ask around, many folks have spare tents. I have at least one I would give away to anyone who wanted to go camping with their kid.


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## DBNH22 (Apr 23, 2014)

I bought a Quest tent in the late 90's that I used about six or seven times per season for about four or five years and then never used it again.  I took it out of the attic last year and aired it out and it was in good condition and still useable.

These days Dick's Sporting Goods carries Quest:

Check out this Quest tent for $150

This tent goes for $150 sleeps six people and comes with a rain fly.  It's kind of midlevel as you were suggesting.  If there's a Dick's in your area you may want to check it out.  they usually have them set up in the store.

Whichever tent you get I'd advise applying some type of sealant to the seams on both the tent and the rain fly.


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## jharkin (Apr 24, 2014)

Joful said:


> I think we were in the same Troop!



Wow I missed this one.  I think I was in the same boy scout troop also - it always rained on every campout, hike, backpacking trip, jamboree, you name it.  We wouldnt even bother to trust the tent waterproofing and would bring huge sheets of 4mil plastic to make the bottom of hte tent into a tub, and it was a ritual to line our packs with trash bags and go over very seam with seam sealer before trips. Having your boots squish squish sqish all weekend because they soaked though inspite of the dozen waterproofing treatments you used (and we tried everything  - silicone, sno-seal, biwell, you name it) was par for the course. this was especially  fun on day 2 of a 3 day backpack when it was 40 degrees out, everything was soaked and there was 10 miles to the nearest road....

This was the 80s when GoreTex was prohibitively expensive and there where no cell phones or GPSs to call for help. I miss those days 


I can remember only one time we bailed out and went home. A council jamboree where the rain was so bad the entire campground flooded with a foot of water. Otherwise we stuck it out in anything and I came home nearly hypothermic far too many times.

builds character  cant wait to take my boy....


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## bassJAM (Apr 24, 2014)

^ I feel lucky compared to you!  It always rained, but our troop bought about 5 Kelty tents the year I joined.  They were reserved for scouts that had at least 1st Class rank, so you can bet I had 1st class as soon as possible!  My brother said they lasted through about 5 years, 12 weekends per year, before they started leaking which I'd call consider pretty good considering some boys treated them better than others.  Lower ranked scouts were stuck in old Coleman tents with tarps over them, and they still leaked.


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## Ashful (Apr 25, 2014)

Great description, Jeremy.  That sounds like at least half our trips out.  I do remember one time when we got bizarrely warm weather in February, and were running around in T-shirts.  Just about every other trip it seemed we'd get hit with some major rain.  We even had the remnants of a tropical storm pass thru one night during one two-week outing, in which lightning actually hit the lean-to shelter where we had stored all our backpacks, just a few yards from our circle of tents.  No one injured, but probably a few soiled sleeping bags, that night.  My years in scouts were maybe 1980 - 1988.  My grandfather was an active scout 1922 - 1990, and I have his 50 and 60 year pins stowed away somewhere.


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## jharkin (Apr 25, 2014)

Cool Joful... Similar experience but a little later on, I think - i started cubs around '82 or 83 and boy scouts from around 87 till '94 when I graduated HS. We typically camped 1 weekend a month during the school year Sep-May regardless of weather, including at leas t one winter cabin trip and one big backpack in the white mountains every year. Did 2 weeks of summer camp at a camp called Workcoeman in Northern CT.  I was a JLTC leadership instructor at a camp called Lake of Isles (closed down now and sold off the land to be a casino i think) and we also got to do some fun high adventure trips - an annual weekend at the Ookpik winter base in Maine (xcountry ski camping and building igloos) and we got to go to the West Point jamboree twice(  my buddy and I snuck off the campground and into their basic training obstacle course and brought home some spent smoke grenades as souveniers  ).

Rain at almost everything, and we didn't have any high end gear. The troop had old Eureka green timberline A-frame tents and I remember taking those backpack trips with nothing but work boots for footwear, a simple rubber coated nylon poncho and an old fashioned external frame pack. We would lug those heavy eureka tents and coleman white gas stoves up the mountain on backpacks.  Soooo uncomfortable by todays standard.


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## Jags (Apr 25, 2014)

Every time I see the local boyscout troops drive by with the equipment trailer on Fri night, my first thoughts are.."Gonna rain this weekend"


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