# Any good EPA stoves,$1000 and under ?



## HDRock (Nov 9, 2012)

Title


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## eclecticcottage (Nov 9, 2012)

Englander.


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## pen (Nov 9, 2012)

How big ya want it?  New or Used?


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## Pallet Pete (Nov 9, 2012)

HDRock this is a very good company based out of MI that I have bought many items from. This is a link to there stoves 1000 and under! They also offer free lift gate delivery to your door.

http://www.woodlanddirect.com/Wood-Stove-and-Accessories/500-to-1000-Wood-Stove

Pete


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## David Tackett (Nov 9, 2012)

Tractor Supply has some nice stoves under 1000.  Personally, I think you can always get a better deal with a used wood stove if you are under a certain budget.


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## Maple man (Nov 9, 2012)

englander nc 30 is a awesome stove fore the money


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## HDRock (Nov 9, 2012)

pen said:


> How big ya want it? New or Used?


Both, New or Used
To heat a, 1300 sq ft drafty house


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## HDRock (Nov 9, 2012)

Maple man said:


> englander nc 30 is a awesome stove fore the money


What  Does the 30 stand for ,


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## Pallet Pete (Nov 9, 2012)

It s the England Stove Works 30-NCH as well as the Summers Heat 50-SNC30 depending on where you buy it. 

Pete


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## HDRock (Nov 9, 2012)

Pallet Pete said:


> HDRock this is a very good company based out of MI that I have bought many items from. This is a link to there stoves 1000 and under! They also offer free lift gate delivery to your door.
> 
> http://www.woodlanddirect.com/Wood-Stove-and-Accessories/500-to-1000-Wood-Stove
> 
> Pete


 
 I have herd that name before but didn't know it was 50 miles away


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## Mroverkill (Nov 9, 2012)

you can drive yo jersey and buy my new in box nc-30 for a smoking deal    heheh


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## wingsfan (Nov 9, 2012)

I paid 699 for my Englander from the local Hom Depot.


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## MTMike (Nov 10, 2012)

I got my Century insert from Ace for $929 with the fascia.   Heats the whole 1100 sq ft main level of my house great, and if I run my furnace fan it'll take the chill off the basement too.


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## HDRock (Nov 10, 2012)

Let's say that I got a Englander 30 or something similar with a six-inch outlet with what I have. Would this be any kind of a problem?
My pipe/chimney is 8'' straight up about 15ft from top of stove, to top of chimney, singlewall stovepipe, steel chimney


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## HDRock (Nov 10, 2012)

wingsfan said:


> I paid 699 for my Englander from the local Hom Depot.


Yeah, I saw they had some deals on those in Mar 2012.
It's kind of strange HD  sells woodstoves, but no stove pipe or much of anything else at all for them.


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## BrowningBAR (Nov 10, 2012)

HDRock said:


> Let's say that I got a Englander 30 or something similar with a six-inch outlet with what I have. Would this be any kind of a problem?
> My pipe/chimney is 8'' straight up about 15ft from top of stove, to top of chimney, singlewall stovepipe, steel chimney


You might have a weak draft.


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## BrowningBAR (Nov 10, 2012)

HDRock said:


> Yeah, I saw they had some deals on those in Mar 2012.
> It's kind of strange HD sells woodstoves, *but no stove pipe or much of anything else at all for them.*


http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/catalog/servlet/Search?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&keyword=stove pipe&Ns=None&Ntpr=1&Ntpc=1&selectedCatgry=SEARCHALL


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## BrowningBAR (Nov 10, 2012)

Right now you are running a monster pre-EPA stove. Tell us a little about that stove. I know it has a huge firebox at around 6 cu ft. But, what are the burn times?

What do you need from a stove?
How drafty is your home? Be honest as it is helpful.

With your budget, you are looking at an Englander 30 or the US Sove company and Drolet equivalent. These aren't bad stoves by any means.

And, as others have mentioned, you can buy used. But buying used is a tougher process to take on.


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## Pallet Pete (Nov 10, 2012)

If you want HDRock I can come look over where you want it installed and give you some advise on the best way to do it. I may be able to get Dennis ( BackwoodsSavage ) to tag along. My friend has a 1800 SQ ft stove for sale I can ask about as well.

Pete


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## BobUrban (Nov 10, 2012)

I am heating 1600+sq' with a 30NC and my home is rather drafty.  I have zero vested interest in the company other than personal experience and I am rather certain there are = or possibly better stoves available as there are many stove companies producing quality solid fuel appliances.  Some may appeal to you more from an asthetic/cosmetic value but you will be hard pressed to find more heat at any price pound for pound.  Even if you purchase the stove at full retail(around 1100.00)  Quality of construction is a non-issue as I am a welder by trade and find this to be a very solid, well built appliance and believe me I am very critical of welds!! 

My chimney set up sounds very similar to yours and our climate is ecentially equal - I am near Brighton, MI.

I have a total of about 16' straight up through the house with the first 6' being 6" DBL wall going into the TPL wall class A 8" chimney.  Everything is Duravent stainless and I had the chimney professionally installed last September.  My biggest concern with the switch to an EPA stove with 6" outlet was draft and I have had zero draft issues even in the shoulder season with warmer temps.  I just light it and it goes right up - no flue pre-heat needed. 

Feel free to PM me if you have any specific questions - I am by no means an expert and this is my first season with this new stove but I may be able to help based on our location and climate.   Or just keep posting here as there is somewhat of a cult following on this site for the 30 and many burning the stove to heat there homes.   

Bob Urban


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## swagler85 (Nov 10, 2012)

BobUrban said:


> Or just keep posting here as there is somewhat of a cult following on this site for the 30 and many burning the stove to heat there homes.
> 
> Bob Urban


Cult? I think we're much more dedicated that


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## HDRock (Nov 11, 2012)

[





BrowningBAR said:


> http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/catalog/servlet/Search?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&keyword=stove pipe&Ns=None&Ntpr=1&Ntpc=1&selectedCatgry=SEARCHALL


 
I guess they have it online, but they have hardly anything, no black stove pipe at all in any of the local stores




BrowningBAR said:


> Right now you are running a monster pre-EPA stove. Tell us a little about that stove. I know it has a huge firebox at around 6 cu ft. But, what are the burn times?





BrowningBAR said:


> What do you need from a stove?
> How drafty is your home? Be honest as it is helpful.
> 
> With your budget, you are looking at an Englander 30 or the US Sove company and Drolet equivalent. These aren't bad stoves by any means.
> ...


 

I'm not sure why you need this info but, My stove is an old Fire View that is no longer made, there is a couple of links in my signature to the only information I can find on the stove.
 With information online, How to calculate a cylinder, I came up with 9.5 ft.³ for the firebox, in the PDF It says they made and 8 ft.³ firebox. So I think that's what it is.
It has a collapsible steel door that you pull up to cover the glass.
The best way to run it is with the steel door up so you can choke it down and get a long burn, then you close the little door on top(see pic). It has a sliding air intake at the back, bottom left, and a damper in the flue pipe.
I am pretty sure my chimney is DuraVent and is stainless steal, is a twist lock deal, it doesn't have an air space like the Dura plus,that I put in my pole barn.
Edit:chimney pipe is measured on the inside correct?
 A big load in the cold weather will burn about six or seven hours, a medium-load about four hours, small fire a couple of hours.
My house is actually pretty drafty, with the wind blowing in the middle of the winter you can tell it.I think my house was built sometime in the 50s, but has been remodeled and added onto,It's 1300 ft.².
I'm not sure what you mean by, what do I need from a stove?
I have looked at used stoves on craigslist, but the only information they give you about the stove is the name of it, not what type of stove. It is whether it is an EPA stove or not, just going by the name, and a model number. I had no idea what it is, I guess I would have to research each individual one.


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## HDRock (Nov 11, 2012)

Pallet Pete said:


> If you want HDRock I can come look over where you want it installed and give you some advise on the best way to do it. I may be able to get Dennis ( BackwoodsSavage ) to tag along. My friend has a 1800 SQ ft stove for sale I can ask about as well.
> 
> Pete


 
Thank you Pete, I appreciate that, but I can't afford a new stove right now.
Mostly I am just trying to get an education, and learn about the newer stoves and, maybe I will be able to afford a new one next year, but I don't want to have to put in a different chimney, there's nothing wrong with the one I have.


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## begreen (Nov 11, 2012)

It may work with the current chimney. If performance is marginal consider adding another length of pipe to the existing class A pipe. Watch for sales starting in late Jan at the big box stores. They start clearing out stoves to make room for lawn mowers and BBQs in late winter.


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## bluedogz (Nov 11, 2012)

+1 for the Englander NC30... when they show up on Craigslist, they seem to go in the $400-500 range.


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## Mrs. Krabappel (Nov 11, 2012)

I paid just over 600 for my 30, but even at retail price it's a screaming deal.    I bumped up from the smaller size Englander (13) for longer burn time and because the 13 really struggled in my drafty house when the temps dropped below 25.


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## BrowningBAR (Nov 11, 2012)

HDRock said:


> I'm not sure why you need this info but...


 
The info on how the current stove works for you allows us to understand if the current stove is meeting your needs and what you will expect from a new stove.

I find it disturbing that an 8 cu ft firebox is only able to heat for six or seven hours. But, I am also having a hard time understanding if you need all of that stove for heat. At 8 cu ft, and it looks like a very large steel stove, that stove should be blasting you out of you 1,300 sq ft home. When run hot, that stove should easily get the main room to 90+ degrees on a full load.

If it does not offer that much heat, that either means there is something very wrong with the stove, or your house is far more drafty than we all understand.

If your house is incredibly drafty and it takes a stove that large to heat 1,300 sq ft, than you WILL have a hard time heating your house with a 3 cu ft stove.


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## Pallet Pete (Nov 11, 2012)

BrowningBAR said:


> The info on how the current stove works for you allows us to understand if the current stove is meeting your needs and what you will expect from a new stove.
> 
> I find it disturbing that an 8 cu ft firebox is only able to heat for six or seven hours. But, I am also having a hard time understanding if you need all of that stove for heat. At 8 cu ft, and it looks like a very large steel stove, that stove should be blasting you out of you 1,300 sq ft home. When run hot, that stove should easily get the main room to 90+ degrees on a full load.
> 
> ...


 
That is an excellent point BB we have a very old home and until last winter it was uninsulated which meant horribly drafty. Before insulating we would load a 3 cubic foot EPA stove every couple of hours and run full blast ! The furnace would still run a couple of times an hour as well just to keep it around 65F 70F range. Now that we are insulated 3 cubic foot is almost too much for us. We get to 90F in a hour if we are not careful. My point being instead of spending on a stove it might be worth saving and spending on insulation. Both BackwoodsSavage and I used the same company I am not sure what Dennis spent but they did our entire house for $3100 dollars. It may sound like a fortune however our heat bills are almost non existant now and we will have made that back by the middle of this winter easily. The link will show you how they did it and what it looks like when finished. Just some thoughts for you to ponder.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/so-begins-the-insulation-pics.83224/

Pete


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## StihlHead (Nov 11, 2012)

Get the 30-NC from HD (they call it an Englander 2,200 on their web site). Even 'off sale' they are $899 locally or delivered to your door (free shipping). If you can wait until Spring, there are usually some HDs online that have them for $649 (with free shipping). They are HUD apporoved for mobile/manufactured homes and they are set up to run with an OAK. They are also EPA _and_ WA state approved (WA state is tougher than EPA, and likely will be the next level EPA-III standard). HD has the best deal on new Englander 30 stoves out there.


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## StihlHead (Nov 11, 2012)

HDRock said:


> What Does the 30 stand for ,


 
30 is just the model number. They also have a smaller model number 13. NC stands for non-cat. If you buy them from HD they have the NCH which comes set up with the pedistal and it also has an optional leg kit, and it has the smaller blower fan (about $100 worth of free options). The OAK is $72 and change from England's Stove Works, or you can make one for about $30 in parts.


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## David Tackett (Nov 11, 2012)

Where I live HD carries these for 899. I do get 10% discount for being a veteran.


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## HDRock (Nov 11, 2012)

BrowningBAR said:


> The info on how the current stove works for you allows us to understand if the current stove is meeting your needs and what you will expect from a new stove.
> 
> I find it disturbing that an 8 cu ft firebox is only able to heat for six or seven hours. But, I am also having a hard time understanding if you need all of that stove for heat. At 8 cu ft, and it looks like a very large steel stove, that stove should be blasting you out of you 1,300 sq ft home. When run hot, that stove should easily get the main room to 90+ degrees on a full load.
> 
> ...


 
Okay, I understand why you need the info, and I appreciate the help immensely.

To tell you the truth I'm not sure I remember how long a full load will burn, so far this year I've only burned small fires, last year I didn't burn at all, the year before that, I only had a couple of fires, and the year before that, I didn't burn at all, now I am retired and I have more time, and I need the exercise. Last year, I kept The Furnace heat low and put on a bunch of clothes, and that's a bunch of bull crap. Now I would like to, NOT use my gas furnace at all.

As far as the stove heating the house adequately, there's no problem with that, that big sucker will cook me out if I'm not careful, how much, and what size wood I put in it.
The stove was here when I bought the house, and yes, it may be bigger than necessary, especially when I shut the doors to two-bedrooms that are no longer used.

The house is drafty but it is insulated.
The chimney pulls a good draft, I have no problem starting up a fire even at 50°.
When I found out on here that the efficiency of the new stoves was 80% compared to 30% for smoke Dragon. I got excited, because that translates into a lot less wood and less screwing around with the stove.
So there is definitely a new stove in my future.
I want to be sure and not, end up with an under sized stove, for sure


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## HDRock (Nov 11, 2012)

StihlHead said:


> The OAK is $72 and change from England's Stove Works, or you can make one for about $30 in parts.


Sorry , This part I don't know what your talking about


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## bluedogz (Nov 11, 2012)

HDRock said:


> Sorry , This part I don't know what your talking about


 
OAK=Outside Air Kit, used for getting a stove to pull air from outside the house instead of the room the stove is in.  Required in some installs (like in mobile homes, I think.)


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## StihlHead (Nov 11, 2012)

bluedogz said:


> OAK=Outside Air Kit, used for getting a stove to pull air from outside the house instead of the room the stove is in. Required in some installs (like in mobile homes, I think.)


 
Yes, all HUD certified houses (mobile/modular/manufactured) have to have an OAK installed on any wood burning stove, and the stove has to be on a pedistal. HUD: US Department of Housing and Urban Development (oversees mobile home laws in the US). OAKs are also required on all wood burning appliances during new construction in many areas of WA state, like Kings Co.


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## El Finko (Nov 12, 2012)

Dude.

30.


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## HDRock (Nov 12, 2012)

El Finko said:


> Dude.
> 
> 30.


Looks like the Englander 30 is kind of popular


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## bluedogz (Nov 12, 2012)

HDRock said:


> Looks like the Englander 30 is kind of popular


 
Um, yeah.


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## boatboy63 (Nov 12, 2012)

I had a similar situation to yours a couple years ago. We inherited a house that was mostly built in the 1890's. The lower level of the house is roughly 2000 sq ft and the only rooms that really had insulation were the ones that had been built onto. We built an upstairs on it that is roughly 1000 more sq ft. It has 2x6 walls and R-19 insulation. When we first got the house 12 yrs ago, we had an old Buck Stove insert that was in the living room. This was truly a smoke dragon and would only offer to knock the chill off 1/2 the lower level on cold day. We honestly would see the curtains move on windy days because house was so drafty. We spent the next summer pulling down vinyl siding, 1 wall at a time, adding a 2x2's and insulating the old and new wall cavities with fiberglass batt. We also installed thermalpane windows. This did help alot, but still is hard to heat. I wish I could go back and do like Pallet Pete did and install the spray foam. It would have been much better and faster in the long run.

About 2 yrs ago when the 30% rebate was in place for EPA rated stoves, we bought a Magnolia stove from Tractor Supply. The compressor had went out on my 5 ton HP and I did not have the money to replace it so we had to run the electric strips in the furnace at night and very cold days. I got the new stove because our electric bill was hitting close to $400 a month with the heat pump/electric strips and burning the Buck Stove 12 hours a day.  We burn half the wood now and get twice the heat. I literally disconnected the heat pump/furnace 2 yrs ago due to bad ductwork under the house. The old duct had holes in it from rust and some had pulled apart so we were trying to heat the crawlspace. We heated with only the Magnolia and had box fans set up all thru the house to help distribute the heat. This old house was like a wind tunnel with all the fans to help distribute the heat and the back rooms were still cool. The living room would often be 85+ just to have enough heat to supply the rest of the house.

Last year, I decided I wanted to run new ductwork thru the house, but I wanted this on the ceilings of the lower level or built into the floor of the upper level. This was because when the ductwork was under the house, you would freeze when the fan would first come on. Being the cheapskate I am, I used 28 gauge metal galvalume roofing that had not been bent. I ordered it as flat stock and built my own metal brake to bend it. I had to custom make the duct due to the sizes I needed to route it thru the house. I extended my return for the furnace to within 10' of my Magnolia and with it being on the ceiling, it would pick up the heat. I just got it completed last week and have now done away with all the box fans in the house. Since the compressor is still bad, I wired my furnace/thermostat up so that the electric strips will work in stages when called for. The thermostat is on the living room wall about 16' from Magnolia. I have it set up so that when the temp hits 79 at the stat, it calls for cooling, which is only the furnace blower/fan. If the temp drops below 73, it will call for the first stage of electric strips. At 72, it will call for the second stage of strips. This should all work great on the very cold nights or when the stove goes out. It also keeps the living room from being 85+ just to heat the house. It is still a little cooler in the back rooms, but nothing like it was. This was all a long drawn out process, but I think it will be much better in the long run. I started building my own custom made outdoor wood gasification boiler a couple years ago, but still haven't finished it. Either way, the ductwork had to be completed first.

My advice to you would first be to get a modern wood stove (new or used) to help get thru the winter. You will burn alot less wood and get more heat. Next year, if you plan to live in the house for a long term, bite the bullet and insulate with the spray foam as mentioned above. It may have a high inital cost, but once done, you don't have to worry with it anymore.


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## HDRock (Nov 13, 2012)

Well I have some fans set up now, blowing the cold air toward the stove room ,at 30 deg outside , the temp difference to the far end of the house is 4 deg


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## EatenByLimestone (Nov 13, 2012)

swagler85 said:


> Cult? I think we're much more dedicated that


 
The cult following seems to change as time goes on.  The 30 has a following, the BKs have a following, and for a while the PE Summit's had quite a following.  I don't know if it is a cult as much as it is a bunch of people who took advantage of a good price. 

The stoves at Lowes also work well.  I picked up a Century that I now use in the family cabin for $242 out the door a few years ago.  The Pleasent Hearth stoves they have now look to be of good quality.  I'd buy one and I saw they were on clearance last time I was in there. 

Matt


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## CR250Rider (Nov 13, 2012)

Thanks so much for all the great input.
You guys make a nubee feel welcome!


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