# Pleasant Hearth At Lowes ????



## dkf5 (Sep 28, 2010)

Hi to all. We've been out shopping to educate ourselves on wood stoves. Currently we have a Shenandoah from the 80's and would like something more efficient and trustworthy. Does anyone know about the stoves from Lowes? Can you explain to me what catalytic and non-catalytic is? Our house we are heating isn't more than 1400 sq ft. Love this site. Thanks. Donna


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## albertj03 (Sep 28, 2010)

If you are looking at the price range of the Pleasant Hearth do yourself a favor and buy an Englander or Summers Heat (same thing) instead. If Lowes doesn't have any of the Summers Heat go to Home Depot and look at the Englander stoves.


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## dispatcher101 (Sep 28, 2010)

For a more technical explanation search cat vs non-cat.  

A catalytic stove uses a catalytic converter to help burn off particulate matter not completely burned during the initial burning process.  These stoves can provide good performance and burn times; but are notorious for sometimes being difficult to operate correctly.  The catalytic device also needs to be replaced at regular intervals which is an added cost and requires time for maintenance.  

Modern non-cat stoves operate using "secondary burn" technology.  When temperatures in the Fire box reach a high enough temp the particulate gases not burned during the initial burn are burned off resulting in added heat output and a cleaner burning stove.  This results in a really cool light show.  These stoves offer solid performance and good ease of use.

Sounds like yall have experience burning in your old stove.  I have operated both flavors and prefer the non-cat.  However both styles have strong following.  There are also quite a few people operating the summers heat and englander stoves on here with great advice and insight.


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## firefighterjake (Sep 28, 2010)

Random thoughts . . .

Welcome to the forum . . . it's a great place to be if you have questions about wood burning.

I had a Shenandoah myself . . . decent stove . . . but that was years ago. As good as that stove was I wouldn't go back . . . I love my Jotul way too much.

Pleasant Hearth appears to be a relative new-comer . . . you don't see too many people here who have had experience with these stoves yet so it's hard for anyone to offer many valid opinions as to whether they're good or bad. As noted, Lowes and Home Depot carry or used to carry Englanders/Summers which many folks here really like due to Englander's price point, performance and customer service. You may be able to find this brand (if you are so inclined) at one of these stores, True Value or overstockstoves.com.

I think Dispatcher gave a pretty good description of cats and secondary burn . . . although I would say there are a number of current cat users who would say that the cat stoves are not difficult to operate providing you use well seasoned wood . . . and I know Backwoods Savage would say that the time to maintain the cat is less than 5 minutes every few months (it consists of lifting a lid, pulling out the cat and brushing it off with a paintbrush) . . . and while it's true that the catalytic combustors need to be replaced I believe that you can get several years off a combustor providing you burn at the proper temps and burn seasoned wood. Again, I am sure Dennis will be along shortly to defend the cat stoves.

My own take on cats vs. secondary burn . . . when I was first looking at stoves I was deadset against buying a stove with a cat . . . now, after having read many, many users here with their experiences with catalytic combustors I would not hesitate to go with either tech and in fact I am very intrigued by Woodstock's future stove release (it's a ways out unfortunately) which hopes to combine a cat with a secondary burn to give users the best of both worlds.


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## dkf5 (Sep 29, 2010)

Thanks so much for the info. This is a great place to learn. Theres always great stories that everybody shares. I burned for years with the Shenandoah and then we put in a propane furnace for about 10 years and in the last two years we brought back the" old stove". I love the stove I know how to use it in my sleep but we feel we need to update. Get something more efficient and maybe more secure. Thanks so much. Donna


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## My Oslo heats my home (Sep 29, 2010)

dispatcher101 said:
			
		

> For a more technical explanation search cat vs non-cat.
> 
> A catalytic stove uses a catalytic converter to help burn off particulate matter not completely burned during the initial burning process.  These stoves can provide good performance and burn times; but are notorious for sometimes being difficult to operate correctly.  The catalytic device also needs to be replaced at regular intervals which is an added cost and requires time for maintenance.
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I agree with Dispatcher on his response. I have two stoves in my home, my main stove is an Jotul Oslo (non-cat, secondary-burn) and my backup is a dutchwest 2461, a cat stove. The dutchwest is the stove I use for spring and fall burns and the cat is 'out of order' currently. The Oslo non-cat, as dispatch says, gives a great secondary burn, which gives off great heat for a period of time and also bruns alot cleaner when it reaches certain temps. 

If I was to point you, I would also go with a non-cat with secondary burn features (tubes in the firebox). Not so sure of the maintenance issues, the Cat replacement costs vs. the secondary burn tube replacements.

Good luck...


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## mainemaul (Sep 29, 2010)

albertj03 said:
			
		

> If you are looking at the price range of the Pleasant Hearth do yourself a favor and buy an Englander or Summers Heat (same thing) instead. If Lowes doesn't have any of the Summers Heat go to Home Depot and look at the Englander stoves.



just picked up a summers heat 50 [englander  30nc] at portland maine lowes for $599. they still had 1 left. this is for the camp to replace the Old Mill smoke dragon
i paid full price $999.00 for one 3 yrs ago for the house and could not be happier!


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## albertj03 (Sep 29, 2010)

mainemaul said:
			
		

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That is a steal! The Lowes in Biddeford still had a Summers Heat NC30 when I was there last week. It was up top on the shelf in the stove/fireplace isle. I guess it's worth a shot checking Lowes for left overs and asking for a deal if they still have one or two.


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## Backwoods Savage (Sep 29, 2010)

dispatcher101 said:
			
		

> For a more technical explanation search cat vs non-cat.
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> A catalytic stove uses a catalytic converter to help burn off particulate matter not completely burned during the initial burning process.  These stoves can provide good performance and burn times; *but are notorious for sometimes being difficult to operate correctly*.  The catalytic device also needs to be replaced at regular intervals which is an added cost and requires time for maintenance.
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Whoa! Notorious for being difficult?!  Not so at all. Maybe years ago they were a bit of a problem but not today.

When we purchased our last new stove we too had heard some horror stories about the cat stoves. It made us shy away. Long story short though, we ended up buying a cat stove. So, is this stove difficult to operate correctly? And what about that time and cost for maintenance? 

The stove is amazingly simple to operate. Can you count to two? If so, you can operate this Fireview cat stove of ours. Every stove has a draft control so you can regulate the fire. With our cat stove there is also a bypass lever. There are the two controls. And they are both easy to use.

Before opening the door of the firebox we all turn our draft controls to full open. This way the flue temperature goes up a bit and stops the fumes or smoke from coming into the room. Well, with a cat stove, when you open the draft full, you also move this little lever from the up position to the down position. Okay, maybe that is complicated?! Well, for most folks it is not.

Now we've put new wood into the stove and we leave the draft full open to get the fire established. This usually takes maybe 10-15 minutes but sometimes longer (a lot depends upon the fuel). We have a stove thermometer on the top of the stove and another on the flue. Those are a big help. Most times when it is time to start dialing down the draft control, that is when we move that little lever from the down position to the up position. This is all there is to controlling a cat stove. Is that too complicated? Maybe for some... ;-) 

Now we get to maintenance. First, one must understand there is maintenance with any stove and not just the cat stove. It is usually recommended to clean the cat after a cord of wood has been burned. This, however, can be adjusted and it depends upon the wood you are burning. Like with all stoves, you need good dry wood. But to the cleaning. We let the coals burn down a bit before opening the top lid. Then, with welder's gloves on, we simply reach in and lift out the cat. We then take it outside and using an old paint brush we simply brush off the white fly ash. Place the cat back in the stove and shut the lid. Total time taken is usually 2-3 minutes but I can do it much faster if I wanted.  Well, the maintenance maybe is not too complicated.

Now for the cost. Is it costly to replace the cat? Not really. They are not costly at all. Furthermore, right on this forum we read over and over about folks having to replace baffles in the non-cat stoves. Gaskets are in both type of stoves. There is always some cost involved. However, let's compare some costs:

With our previous stove (non-cat, non EPA), we burned an average of 6 cords of wood per winter (we heat 100% with wood). With our present stove (cat stove, EPA certified) we now burn 3 cords per winter and stay a whole lot warmer too. 

Let's assume the cost of a cord of wood to be $150. Some higher and some lower depending on location. 

Six cords @ $150 = $900.00  
Three cords @ $150 = $450.00   
Cost of cat = $100.  

If we replace the cat in, say only 5 years, that is $20.00 per year cost. So, if we save $450 in fuel and pay $20 for cat cost, we are still saving $430.00 per year. You be the judge. Have we saved any dollars or has this cat stove been expensive to maintain. Is this cat stove complicated with its 2 levers (draft and bypass)? We don't think it is complicated at all. We rather enjoy our stove that keeps us nice and warm.

Here is another big factor with our stove. We used to clean our chimney 2-4 times per winter. We have had our Fireview for 3 full winters now and have cleaned it one time. There was no creosote and very little soot (about a cup of soot). So there is another big savings on the maintenance.


So I say to all, do not shy away from a cat stove as they have much to offer. I will not put down the non-cat stoves because there are some really good ones out there but when someone puts down a cat stove I really have to wonder why. 

I do recall that we were a bit shy about them when we purchased but now we are very glad that we bought this cat stove.


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## ddown (Oct 2, 2010)

Went into lowes today and looked at the pleasant hearth 1800 square foot model. Not Quite the fit and finish of englander but it looks like it would work OK. Has Firebrick on top of burntubes, and fully lined fire brick box includes blower. Very simple design. and some rough welds.


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## Cascade Failure (Oct 2, 2010)

Backwoods Savage said:
			
		

> With our previous stove (non-cat, non EPA), we burned an average of 6 cords of wood per winter (we heat 100% with wood). With our present stove (cat stove, EPA certified) we now burn 3 cords per winter and stay a whole lot warmer too.



This is something I have wondered about but haven't bothered to look into. We have a Shenendoah as well. It came with the house when we bought it. I love its simplicity and it does provided good heat but I have always wondered about its efficiency.

Not that I doubt you Dennis but I do like a range of opinions so...have others who have switched types of stoves experienced the same drop in wood use? 50% less wood is quite a drop.


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## iceman (Oct 2, 2010)

Cascade Failure said:
			
		

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I have a epa stove and heat ahhhh I dunno, well over 2000 sq ft 24/7 usually keeping it in the 70s with all hardwood floors and alota Windows ... I use about 4 cord
So the answer is yes epa stoves do use a lot less wood... at least 1/3-1/2 less
The key with new stoves is dry wood .... the drier the wood the better they burn


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## BrotherBart (Oct 2, 2010)

I was burning six cord a year in the old stove. Switched to the EPA stove and chimney liner and it went down to four. Started letting the stuff dry for two years and now for the last three seasons I have burned three cord a year. In colder winters lately and the joint is warmer and I don't crap up the chimney anymore.


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## dkf5 (Oct 3, 2010)

Good morning. We bought the Pleasant Hearth stove at Lowes Friday night and installed it Saturday. It was in the 50's here and by the evening it was at 50 and the stove worked beautiful. The real test will be in the heart of the winter. The nice thing about the new stove is we can get it closer to surrounding walls than the old one we had. Smaller door opening than we are used to. I know we will use less wood. To achieve the temps we had last night it would have required a bit more wood. I'm hoping come Dec, Jan, and Feb, that we are still going to be happy. That will be the test for the stove. The nice thing about the stove it we now have a window to see the flames. So thanks always for the info and input. I come here often to read and learn even though I know how to burn there is always something new to learn. Enjoy the heat Donna


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## ddown (Oct 3, 2010)

with the sale prices and what I saw of the stove it should be a good stove enjoy it and give updates as you spend time with it.


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## ddown (Oct 3, 2010)

Fot those intersted here is link to Company  http://www.ghpgroupinc.com/fireplace/products/wood-stove-medium-legs/detail.asp

GHP group in Illinois Never heard of them


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## raybonz (Nov 27, 2010)

Was at Lowes yesterday and saw the Pleasant Hearth stoves and they seemed OK.. I did look at the specs (online) and they are about 100 lbs. lighter than the Summer's Heat they are replacing. In my mind lighter means you're getting less metal and in a stove that would be a negative in my opinion. On the upside they offer a 5 yr. warranty and the blower is free.. One thing I do expect from a woodstove is durability and I have my concerns that the Pleasant Hearth will hold up as well as the Summer's Heat/Englander stoves.. I hope to hear more from others that may have purchased one as I am thinking I will need to upgrade from this stove at some time.. I want a low maintenance stove and convection is important to me and it can't be a parts hog.. I love the soapstone stoves as they look great year round but they are not convection  If there is one good thing about this old stove it's the fact that it rarely ever needs parts....

Ray


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## BrotherBart (Nov 27, 2010)

Neither the Pleasant Hearth or the Englander are convection stoves. And both have the same five year firebox warranty.


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## precaud (Nov 27, 2010)

raybonz said:
			
		

> ... I did look at the specs (online) and they are about 100 lbs. lighter than the Summer's Heat they are replacing. In my mind lighter means you're getting less metal and in a stove that would be a negative in my opinion.



Not necessarily. Less weight means less btu storage. But it also means faster warmups - the stove will start producing uselful heat more quickly. So it's a tradeoff - heat now, or heat later.


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## raybonz (Nov 27, 2010)

BrotherBart said:
			
		

> Neither the Pleasant Hearth or the Englander are convection stoves. And both have the same five year firebox warranty.



Dunno what I was thinking, guess the blower threw me off.. Radiant heat tends to make feel too hot and I need to move the heat around so a blower helps alot.. All stoves provide radiant heat the blower just reduces that effect a bit.. BB how has your Englander held up so far? So far I haven't seen many negatives and the price is right for sure..

Ray


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## raybonz (Nov 27, 2010)

precaud said:
			
		

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That quick heat may be true but I think the effect is negligible however I feel durability would be the biggest trade off.. Englander is established with a track record so at least you know what you're into and their support seems decent (one of their people frequent this forum) so they are responsive as well if not proactive.. Just weighing my options and advance researching in case I decide to upgrade.. 

Ray


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## precaud (Nov 27, 2010)

raybonz said:
			
		

> That may be true but I think the effect is neglible



100 lbs difference is unlikely to be negligible - that's 33% off the weight off the heavier one! Chances are, it's quite noticeable.



> however I feel durabilty would be the biggest trade off..


Methinks you are applying an "old-school" assumption that "heavier is better." I don't buy that, especially when it comes to efficient heat production. Too many other considerations weigh into the durability issue to say that weight is the dominant factor.


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## BrotherBart (Nov 27, 2010)

raybonz said:
			
		

> BB how has your Englander held up so far? So far I haven't seen many negatives and the price is right for sure..



Season five and it is sitting over there right now heating the joint. Looks like it is a keeper. Loaded it at nine thirty last night and it was twenty six outside and 71 downstairs and 69 upstairs when I got up at eight o'clock this morning. Dragged the pile forward, tossed on three splits and let'er eat. I just banked the big load of coals and will let it sit and radiate till dark or so. Supposed to get down to twenty tonight.

Yet to turn on the blower this season. It did so well when the power was out for a week in the back to back snow bonanzas last year that I am seeing how long I hold out without turning the blower on this year.


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## raybonz (Nov 27, 2010)

BrotherBart said:
			
		

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Well that's good to hear.. Good to know that you get long burn times too as I feel that is important.. Have you had to replace any parts and if so how expensive was it and what parts did you need to replace? As for the temps there that's unreal as it seems much colder there than here! Now that you have extensive shovelling experience it would be best if the snow keeps blowing down there lol.. I don't recall hitting 20 degrees here this heating season but we will at some time..Being near the ocean probably helps me out..  

Ray


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## BrotherBart (Nov 27, 2010)

I ordered a new set of baffle boards and gaskets this fall when they were having a sale. Don't need them yet but the price was right and I figure it is better to have them on the shelf than having to try to get them here in mid season if something goes wrong.


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## raybonz (Nov 27, 2010)

precaud said:
			
		

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You will get a faster heatup with the thinner steel but it will also have less thermal mass so it will also cool down quicker.. Soapstone stoves are a good example of this plus you get more uniform heat from the larger/heavier heatmass.. This isn't gospel just my opinion.. Quality of construction along with good materials and design will dictate stove longevity (plus proper operation and maintenance).. 

Ray


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## raybonz (Nov 27, 2010)

BrotherBart said:
			
		

> I ordered a new set of baffle boards and gaskets this fall when they were having a sale. Don't need them yet but the price was right and I figure it is better to have them on the shelf than having to try to get them here in mid season if something goes wrong.



I fully agree with that Bart however my wife wouldn't lol.. I tend to be a belt and suspenders kinda guy  If something fails once I feel it probably will again.. I have been known to be wrong on this lol.. Gaskets are something that will wear out over time and baffle boards would also tend to crap out too (they are up top, correct?).. 

Ray


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## BrotherBart (Nov 27, 2010)

With the baffle boards it is always a possibility that the poker could slip and knock a hole in one or something. When it is five degrees outside. I don't mind keeping a hundred and twenty bucks worth of spare parts around. Everybody seems to not have a problem getting a central heating unit serviced every year but they want to install a wood stove and figure they can just do nothing but toss wood in it for forty years.

I could have gotten a stove with a stainless steel baffle but for a grand more I got right over it.


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## precaud (Nov 27, 2010)

raybonz said:
			
		

> You will get a faster heatup with the thinner steel but it will also have less thermal mass so it will also cool down quicker.. Soapstone stoves are a good example of this plus you get more uniform heat from the larger/heavier heatmass.. This isn't gospel just my opinion..



We can't assume all the difference is in the steel. And not everyone burns 24/7 and wants more uniform heat. I for sure don't. A high-mass stove is just a burden for someone doing zone heating or using a stove to fill in the gaps of a different primary heat source. That is why I say, there are tradeoffs in the high mass vs low mass approaches, and both have their use.



> Quality of construction along with good materials and design will dictate stove longevity (plus proper operation and maintenance)..



Agreed!


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## raybonz (Nov 27, 2010)

BrotherBart said:
			
		

> With the baffle boards it is always a possibility that the poker could slip and knock a hole in one or something. When it is five degrees outside. I don't mind keeping a hundred and twenty bucks worth of spare parts around. Everybody seems to not have a problem getting a central heating unit serviced every year but they want to install a wood stove and figure they can just do nothing but toss wood in it for forty years.
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I hear ya there Bart.. This stove has spoiled me when it comes to needing parts so it's something I need to come to grips with.. I do wonder if you could add some sheet stainless plate or similar to protect that fiber board.. Another member has the newer version of my stove and it seems pretty solid but better designed in a few ways (think his name is Paxton aka Chris ?) and he bought it rebuilt with good luck so far.. For now I keep watching Craigslist and researching as time is on my side..

Ray


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## raybonz (Nov 27, 2010)

precaud said:
			
		

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I hear ya loud and clear.. I also understand that your heating is primarily a night time thing so it makes sense to me.. What matters is we can all get what we need and are not restricted to one way of doing things.. Even here late in Nov. using the stove is sporadic at best as this month has been relatively mild so far with day time temps and sun warming the house during the day.. Glad you gave some valid points they will be a considered when and if the time comes..

Ray


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## Renovation (Nov 27, 2010)

Backwoods Savage said:
			
		

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+1  What Savage said.  (chuckle)  I knew that line would get a rise. From the user experiences I've read here, modern cat stoves are as easy and fiddle-free as thermal secondary burners, if not more so.


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## BrotherBart (Nov 27, 2010)

raybonz said:
			
		

> I do wonder if you could add some sheet stainless plate or similar to protect that fiber board..



It would just warp. Better to just throw the poker away and use a six dollar pair of tongs. Three dollars if you get them at Lowe's at the end of the season. I have never seen anything in a wood stove that needs poking.


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## FyreBug (Nov 27, 2010)

GHP are made in China and a knock-off of North American made Century stoves...



			
				ddown said:
			
		

> Fot those intersted here is link to Company  http://www.ghpgroupinc.com/fireplace/products/wood-stove-medium-legs/detail.asp
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## raybonz (Nov 27, 2010)

FyreBug said:
			
		

> GHP are made in China and a knock-off of North American made Century stoves...
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The stoves at Lowes are made in USA.. Look here http://www.ghpgroupinc.com/fireplace/products/wood-stove-large-pedestal/detail.asp

Ray


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## raybonz (Nov 27, 2010)

BrotherBart said:
			
		

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Hard to argue with you Bart very good point and comical at the same time lol...

Ray


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## BrotherBart (Nov 27, 2010)

FyreBug said:
			
		

> GHP are made in China and a knock-off of North American made Century stoves...



The stoves are made in Huntington, Indiana. You can stop spreading the China noise and bad mouthing a competitor any time now.


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## raybonz (Nov 27, 2010)

BrotherBart said:
			
		

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Bart,

A little off subject but do you think your stove would be too large for a 1632 sq. ft. home? I like a big firebox and long burn times but don't want to run with the windows open..

Ray


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## BrotherBart (Nov 27, 2010)

It could get a little warm around there. You can put a half load in the stove and it burns about the same amount of time as a smaller stove. But the large size of the sucker radiates a lot of heat anyway. Burning a half load E/W should give nice even heat for a good while. You are right. Having lots of working room in the firebox is really nice. And being able to load N/S or E/W because it is basically square. Same with the PE stoves, some of the Napoleons, Quads etc.

You might want to take a look at the Woodstock stoves. A range of sizes and all with cats. And they seem to put them on sale often. In fact there shouldn't be anything wrong with the new Dutchwest cat stoves. It appears that the fancy non-cat technology of theirs is where the problems have occurred.

Lotta good stoves out there. And not a single one is the perfect one.


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## raybonz (Nov 28, 2010)

BrotherBart said:
			
		

> It could get a little warm around there. You can put a half load in the stove and it burns about the same amount of time as a smaller stove. But the large size of the sucker radiates a lot of heat anyway. Burning a half load E/W should give nice even heat for a good while. You are right. Having lots of working room in the firebox is really nice. And being able to load N/S or E/W because it is basically square. Same with the PE stoves, some of the Napoleons, Quads etc.
> 
> You might want to take a look at the Woodstock stoves. A range of sizes and all with cats. And they seem to put them on sale often. In fact there shouldn't be anything wrong with the new Dutchwest cat stoves. It appears that the fancy non-cat technology of theirs is where the problems have occurred.
> 
> Lotta good stoves out there. And not a single one is the perfect one.



As always good advice Bart! To be honest I really like the Woodstock soapstones but they say up to 1600 sq. ft. so my concern is will they be able to heat this house without running flat out.. I can save some money by driving there and picking it up.. Maybe Dennis or Todd can tell me how it would perform in this situation. May even look at the new Dutchwest cat stoves too.. I like cat stoves because they do pretty well even on low settings... I do like how you can load your stove EW or NS ... Mine is pretty much EW with the air coming in from the west side.. I can use 22" wood in mine so that is a plus too.. Thanks for all your input and insight!

Ray


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## RedGuy (Nov 28, 2010)

I'm in the process of installing my Pleasent Hearth. It's true the welds look alittle rough, but they don't appear to have structural difficencies. 100lbs lighter to me means one thing, it's alot easier to move!LOL 330lbs is doable with 2 people without too much effort, 440lbs, that's starting to push it unless you ate your wheaties this morning. Overall I bought the stove based on 4 things, it just fits in my fireplace, I like the way it looks (only unit in this price range I found with legs), I like the price ($630 at Lowes), and it's made in the USA!


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## raybonz (Nov 28, 2010)

RedGuy said:
			
		

> I'm in the process of installing my Pleasent Hearth. It's true the welds look alittle rough, but they don't appear to have structural difficencies. 100lbs lighter to me means one thing, it's alot easier to move!LOL 330lbs is doable with 2 people without too much effort, 440lbs, that's starting to push it unless you ate your wheaties this morning.



Hello Red,
I look forward to your feedback and pics! Tell us the good and the bad and best of luck to you!

Ray


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## dkf5 (Nov 28, 2010)

to Ray, We bought the Pleasant Hearth 1800 and in one month returned it for a full refund and went to Tractor Supply and bought a Magnolia by USS Co. Much bigger firebox and that is what we needed.  Coals in the morning and when we get home from work. The Pleasant Hearth couldn't compete with that. A nice stove for the right buyer just wasn't what we needed. This is truly a fantastic forum...Keep up the good work.


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## raybonz (Nov 28, 2010)

dkf5 said:
			
		

> to Ray, We bought the Pleasant Hearth 1800 and in one month returned it for a full refund and went to Tractor Supply and bought a Magnolia by USS Co. Much bigger firebox and that is what we needed.  Coals in the morning and when we get home from work. The Pleasant Hearth couldn't compete with that. A nice stove for the right buyer just wasn't what we needed. This is truly a fantastic forum...Keep up the good work.



Thanx for the info dkf! People here love the reviews so feel free to give feedback positive and negative.. Be sure to post pics too.. Welcome to the forum too!!

Ray


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