# ice dams



## Phatty (Jan 30, 2011)

ok ive searched and didnt find what i am looking for .i have ice dams again this year after every snow fall i rake the roof
never had this problem till i addad a second layer of insulation 3 years ago i made sure the eves were not covered with 
insulation this house is 100 plus years old has blown in insulation in the walls ive seen pics on here of pink foam between
the joists in the attic is this the easiest fix ?


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## imacman (Jan 30, 2011)

Phatty said:
			
		

> .i have ice dams again this year after every snow fall......



Yeah, you and everyone else in the NE.

BTW, another monster storm coming Wed-Thurs......I've heard it might be worse than last years big blizzard.   :ahhh:


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## Phatty (Jan 30, 2011)

ya i turn the tv off when the weather comes on the wife has to go make deliveries in that shat

the reason i posted the ice dams is some one posted here with pics of the pink corragted foam and also put some kinda tinfoil(?)
with it and said it cooled in the summer and kept the house warmer in the winter???


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## Phatty (Jan 30, 2011)

i realize everyone has em here but i hadn had a problem in 14 years till 
i added the 2nd layer of insulation


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## Kiver (Jan 30, 2011)

I was over my friends house this weekend shoveling the roof and making pantyhose snakes.   He must of had 6 inches of ice at the gutter


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## magsf11 (Jan 30, 2011)

imacman said:
			
		

> Phatty said:
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 yep they are saying that we might get nailed this time.


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## slls (Jan 30, 2011)

I rake roof every storm, no ice dams, it's why I rake.


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## UncleAnthony (Jan 30, 2011)

Phatty said:
			
		

> ok ive searched and didnt find what i am looking for .i have ice dams again this year after every snow fall i rake the roof
> never had this problem till i addad a second layer of insulation 3 years ago i made sure the eves were not covered with
> insulation this house is 100 plus years old has blown in insulation in the walls ive seen pics on here of pink foam between
> the joists in the attic is this the easiest fix ?


Right there with ya !  As you probably know, reason why you did not have ice dams before 2nd insulation was your roof
was so warm that most snow melted off (?) .  Now you ice dam at eaves ?  I rake the roof, but some places (inside valley)
I cant get to. Last year and this year threw up reusable nylon Roof socks filled with calcium cloride  and this is supposed to help  break the dam and get water flowing off roof  (i then pray it works ) . Can get these roof socks for $10 each at amazon.com. (Two years ago had ice dams back up and leaked big time into house,dont want to go thru that again)

it's worth a try !


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## jumpink (Jan 30, 2011)

slls said:
			
		

> I rake roof every storm, no ice dams, it's why I rake.



what do you use to rake the roof?


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## ChrisWNY (Jan 30, 2011)

Yep, even out here in WNY (where storms typically miss us) is supposed to feel the impact of this one...12"+ snow predicted by Wednesday, with strong winds to boot.


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## Phatty (Jan 30, 2011)

i went and bought a roof rake at hd and about 6 extentions its a little scary but it works 
you wont get me up on my roof i dont bounce very well


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## gfreek (Jan 30, 2011)

Make sure you have good ventilation & soffit vents are clear.  Went to metal roof years ago, never a problem...except when the snow slides off- watch out........


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## krooser (Jan 31, 2011)

If you have too much insulation and no air movement you will get ice dams... 

When I remodeled my kitchen/porch in 1991 I jammed in a lot of insulation into the area above the formerly outside porch (which we made part of the kitchen). I didn't put a vent into the rood or soffits... big mistake.

I redid the roof 15 years ago and made my own ice shield from two pieces of .028 aluminum and a lot of 'Blackjack' asphalt sealer. I ran it 4' up the roof... never had any problems with leaking. Then a few years ago we had some wind/hail damage so I hired a professional to do the roof... now I have big time water leaking into my porch every time I have an ice dam... like right now. It got so bad today that the entrance door to the porch froze shut...

Looks like I'll need to redo the damn roof one more time...


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## Don2222 (Jan 31, 2011)

Hello

This is the worst year for Ice Dams in a long time!!

There are 2 ways to go that will help.

1. The electric heat cable that you run in a W pattern along the edge of the roof.

Not a good time to install it now! Also it will add to your electric bill!

2. Installing the Pink or light yellow Rafter Vents from HD or Lowe's sometime called Proper Vents between the beams in the attic ceiling.

That is what I did, but for this to work you must have soffit vents. (easy to install yourself) and a ridge vent. (Roofers must install when re-roofing now because of the newer building codes)

No electricity needed. Easy to install with a staple gun or a air stapler which is what I used!!
See 1st pic 
and 
if you want your house 10 degrees cooler in the summer just staple Reflectix foil from HD or Lowe's to the vents. 
See 2nd pic

Now is the best time to install them and have a warmer winter and a cool summer!


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## krooser (Jan 31, 2011)

Don2222 said:
			
		

> Hello
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> This is the worst year for Ice Dams in a long time!!
> 
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That's what I needed to do 20 years ago but I wasn't that smart...


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## Don2222 (Jan 31, 2011)

krooser said:
			
		

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Yes, I wish I did that back in 86 when I bought my house built in 1962 with New! Owens-Corning Fibergalss Building Insulations marked in big black letters *> ECONOMY * (R7 !!  - See pic below)

It was not until on Wed Aug 13th in 2008 when I got my oil tank filled and was handed the bill!!
*Date________Gallons___Price/Gal___Total
08-13-2008___208.5____$4.129____$860.90*

I was using approx 937 gallons of oil for heat and hot water per year!!

So that was my wake up call !!
Since then I ripped out the R7 added 2x2s to the 2x4s in the attic floor. I rolled in reflectix with R19 on top crisscrossed with R30.
Then put in the rafter vents and the reflectix foil in between the rafters. Installed a pellet stove and a new cold start boiler with an outdoor reset.

So at the current price of $3.20 per gallon that 937 gallons today would cost a whopping $2998.40 per year !!

Now my oil consumption is approx. 200 gallons per year or $2.59 x 200 = $518.00  ( I only buy in the summer when oil is cheaper)
*That is a savings of $2998.40 - $518.00 + $600.00 (3 tons of pellets)= $1880.40*

So It is never too late to start saving heat


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## wilburg (Jan 31, 2011)

I had an ice dam, I broke it up this morning.  The easiest and quickest way I have found to break up ice dams is to take a garden hose, attach it to the shower head (you can get an adapter at HD) and then run pure hot water through a spray head.  It cuts the ice like butter.  I cut a valley every three feet or so.  Of course it costs me 80 gallons of hot water, but the job is done and hands dont get cold.


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## henkmeuzelaar (Jan 31, 2011)

Phatty said:
			
		

> >
> .i have ice dams again this year after every snow fall i rake the roof
> *never had this problem till i addad a second layer of insulation* 3 years ago *i made sure the eves were not covered with
> insulation* this house is 100 plus years old has blown in insulation in the walls ive seen pics on here of pink foam between
> the joists in the attic is this the easiest fix ?




Was flabbergasted to read this post. Our old house in the Utah Rocky Mountains at 7200 ft gets on average 250 inches of snow and some homes here do suffer from ice dam problems. Contrary to what you wrote, we blame it on insufficient insulation, rather than on adding insulation!

As I read on, it soon became clear that you must indeed have so little insulation that you are better off raking everything off after a storm whereas we try to leave all the snow on the roof for its insulating value (unless some porches or other roof overhangs cannot bear the weight anymore in very heavy (up to 400 inches) snow years).

A very experienced roofer in our area was once asked (on a local forum) what the best way was to fight ice dams: heating tape or aluminum roof skirts? He laughed and said: "If you do have ice dams your insulation is faulty, particularly in the eaves.  You should first try to improve THAT!"  

Nonetheless, we did sometimes get caught with unexpected insulation loss problems; often as a result of squirrels or even raccoons getting into attics or tunneling into cathedral ceilings and once we were too far into the winter season it is usually was too late in the season to repair things right away.

Just as mentioned by one of the responders; as a temporary solution we would put the hot water hose on it to cut some channels. Others might put in electric heating tape. The worst method, of course, is to take an ax to it (e.g. from one of the upper decks) and then having to repair the roof damage in spring. 

Why am I bringing all this up here, although it is not very pertinent to your problem?

Well, I imagine some people with newer, well-insulated roofs might read this thread and perhaps think they should always rake off the snow and never add extra insulation........  

In short: if you have excellent insulation and your roof is strong enough: don't touch anything. If you still get a few ice dams, just deal with it carefully (e.g. with hot water and/or heating tape) and plan to check and improve your insulation before the next winter. Snow has very nice insulating properties.

However, if the snow is melting in many spots, other than just over the eaves, the situation may indeed be far enough out of control to make raking advisable.  It is a little bit like being caught in a swampy stretch of forest; are you better off trying to make it accross or is it smarter to retrace your steps?? The worst thing is to be caught in the middle.

Henk


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 31, 2011)

The only time I take a snow rake to the roof here is when the depth on the roof exceeds 48" or is wet due to heavy wet snow.  It is a matter of weight and nothing but weight.

I have only used the snow rake twice, both times it was our first winter here.  I also had to clear off the deck 2 times that winter.   No way to rake the roof on one side without clearing the deck at least once.

We had a snow ball fight in the back yard (or is it the front yard, oh well) on May 5 that first spring.


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## smilejamaica (Jan 31, 2011)

Phatty said:
			
		

> ok ive searched and didnt find what i am looking for .i have ice dams again this year after every snow fall i rake the roof
> never had this problem till i addad a second layer of insulation 3 years ago i made sure the eves were not covered with
> insulation this house is 100 plus years old has blown in insulation in the walls ive seen pics on here of pink foam between
> the joists in the attic is this the easiest fix ?


if you have ice dams every year you might want to look into buying and installing a Roof De-Icing Cable http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_...9x00001a&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=SPM2379417302 it is something most people dont need but it is an option


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## krooser (Jan 31, 2011)

I have a heat cable up there but it's shorted out...

When it DID work it really didn't work as well as i would have liked... of course one of my boys bought it and installed it.... he bought the cheapest one he could find so i don't really think it was up to the job.


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## henkmeuzelaar (Jan 31, 2011)

smilejamaica said:
			
		

> [quote if you have ice dams every year you might want to look into buying and installing a Roof De-Icing Cable http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_...9x00001a&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=SPM2379417302 it is something most people dont need but it is an option



When we moved into the Utah Rocky Mountains at 7200 ft 33 years ago the first house we had was all-electric (then, the bigger residential users would actually earn a special discount from the power company!) and came with 10 de-icing cables installed on the roof edges and in the gutters. When I used my multimeter, I was shocked: _each_ of these 10 cables was drawing 1 kW !! 

On top of that, they just made little tunnels in the ice.... However, there is a type of cable that can be buried UNDER an aluminum skirt so the heat spreads out over a larger area and keeps much more of the roof clean (in combination with the slipperiness of the aluminum surface). 

Once we realized that running all the 10 cables might easily cost us more than $ 10 per day (just to try and prevent ice dams) we made sure we learned how to do without the cables; e.g. by improving the insulation.

Henk


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## Don2222 (Jan 31, 2011)

Wilburg said:
			
		

> I had an ice dam, I broke it up this morning.  The easiest and quickest way I have found to break up ice dams is to take a garden hose, attach it to the shower head (you can get an adapter at HD) and then run pure hot water through a spray head.  It cuts the ice like butter.  I cut a valley every three feet or so.  Of course it costs me 80 gallons of hot water, but the job is done and hands dont get cold.



Hello Wilburg

Please tell us how you hooked up the hose to hot water?  (I think I would have to do some plumbing before I could do that!)


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## henkmeuzelaar (Jan 31, 2011)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

> The only time I take a snow rake to the roof here is when the depth on the roof exceeds 48" or is wet due to heavy wet snow.  *It is a matter of weight and nothing but weight.*
> 
> I have only used the snow rake twice, both times it was our first winter here.  I also had to clear off the deck 2 times that winter.   No way to rake the roof on one side without clearing the deck at least once.
> 
> We had a snow ball fight in the back yard (or is it the front yard, oh well) on May 5 that first spring.




Yes, but only if your insulation is good enough.

If it is poor enough that you have continuous slow melting near the higher parts in combination with re-freezing over the eaves (particularly during extended day/night thaw/freeze cycles you have a recipe for giant ice dam formation. 

In the latter case it is probably wise to immediately remove all the snow after each storm, as some of the posters appear to be doing.

Henkl


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## little_hawk_59 (Jan 31, 2011)

as most of the people have said, the most common cause of an ice dam is that there is not enough air flow coming in from the soffet along the roof boards and out the peak. you might have not covered the soffet but you might need move vented soffet then solid. your attic should be " a cold zone" of the house if you go up there in the winter is should be very cold like it is outside.


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## henkmeuzelaar (Jan 31, 2011)

I agree that a "cold roof" over an attic with good ventilation and a carefully insulated floor is in many ways the simplest and best solution, provided you religiously insulate any vent, flue, chimney or roof a/c ducting that traverses the space between attic floor and roof. In principle, this insulation should extend to well above the expected snow level in order to make sure no warm air, etc., can cause melting of the snow on top of the roof. In practice, that is rarely done, I believe. As a consequence, any snow that melts around these roof perforations (as you can see happening on roof tops all around you) will freeze out again somewhere on its way down; usually over the eaves. thus forming an ice dam.

This is probably one of the main reasons one finds relatively few newer houses with attics here in the high altitude Rocky Mountains areas. Instead, we mostly see cathedral roofs because of better space utilization, better daylight ingress and easier roof access for the various heating, cooling and other ducted devices of todays households.

Even in cathedral roofs, however, the "cold roof" principle is getting more popular nowadays, despite the very high cost of construction. Essentially, this requires the construction of two separate roofs with the inner roof heavily insulated (usually at the R39 or R50 level in our nick of the woods) and separated from the outer roof by a 1/2 to 1 foot high vented space. 

Henk


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## gfreek (Jan 31, 2011)

Gutters tend to increase the problem also....


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## Dougsey (Jan 31, 2011)

Don-  What is the copper pipe I see in your pic?


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## wilburg (Jan 31, 2011)

What I did to atatch a Garden hose to my shower:

1) get an adapter for a handheld shower head (silver piece)
2) fit an adapter for a 3/4inch hose (brass piece)

I bought both pieces at home depot.

I mostly use this to wash my dogs with warm water outside of the house, but also works for my ice dams

(photo is sideways)


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## peakbagger (Jan 31, 2011)

One overlooked cause of ice dams on homes with proper insulation and clear soffit vents is blocked ridge vents. Many new homes have ridge vents only with no gable end vents. The ridge vents work great until a  big snow storm covers them over, then the attic warms up and its ice dam time until the vents are clear.

By the way, most newer roofs in snow areas are rated for 40 pounds per square foot live load. Once snow starts getting over 4' the roof is probably at or near design load. Very rarely does a roof fail slowly, usually it fails from a defect in the original construction and when they go, they usually go quickly.


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## henkmeuzelaar (Jan 31, 2011)

peakbagger said:
			
		

> One overlooked cause of ice dams on homes with proper insulation and clear soffit vents is blocked ridge vents. Many new homes have ridge vents only with no gable end vents. The ridge vents work great until a  big snow storm covers them over, then the attic warms up and its ice dam time until the vents are clear.
> 
> By the way, *most newer roofs in snow areas are rated for 40 pounds per square foot live load*. Once snow starts getting over 4' the roof is probably at or near design load. Very rarely does a roof fail slowly, usually it fails from a defect in the original construction and when they go, they usually go quickly.



Our old Utah home, in Summit Park at 7,200 ft has 90 PSF roof snow load requirements and in nearby Park City the homes at 8,400 ft need to be constructed for no less than 160 PSF.

However, since we do have the occasional 300 - 400 inch snow year, we certainly have gotten up on the roof to shovel snow from vulnerable porch and other overhang sections, especially when the groaning timbers would start waking up my wife at night. When you are shoveling down a 6ft, highly compacted snow layer you can occasionally feel the roof rise under your feet, like when you are boarding an airplane just when the automatic load leveling kicks in.... 

Henk


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 31, 2011)

PyMS said:
			
		

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The insulation I have is good enough, no ice dams.   No valleys.  Vents are all free,  Old hand at dealing with ice dams and other roof issues so I just watch the snow load, one thing when it is the fluffy stuff, entirely different matter if it is the wet stuff.  If I move the snow off of the rear (or is it the front) deck when it gets 3' high I have to move 32 cubic yards of it.   Pain in the back, arms, and other anatomical parts of this geezer.  

My wife has been picking away at the deck since it looks like the roof is going to need raking this year.


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## Don2222 (Jan 31, 2011)

Dougsey said:
			
		

> Don-  What is the copper pipe I see in your pic?



That pipe is the vent pipe for the bathroom sink. Copper was cheap back in 1962 when the house was built. LOL


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 31, 2011)

Don2222 said:
			
		

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Told ya, not to post pictures like that, too many of us geezers can still see ;-).


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## Don2222 (Jan 31, 2011)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

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Ok Smokey I just cropped it out.


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## peakbagger (Jan 31, 2011)

for folks in NH, here is a study on recomended ground snow loads by town.
http://www.senh.org/committee reports/tr02-6.pdf 
A roof should be built to withstand these loads, unfortunately in the rural towns where the loads get quite high, the towns dont have building inspectors and therefore even though folks are supposed to build to a high snow load, they usually dont.


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## Xena (Jan 31, 2011)

I had a small leak coming in my bedroom this morning.
The drip woke me up @ 6 am. Went out there when it
got light out and raked another foot back from the edges
of the roof around the entire house, and the leak stopped shortly after even though
there is a few inches of ice there and the gutters are filled
to the brim with ice.
We have good insulation, soffit vents and a ridge vent
but my brother painted the house this year and was lazy
and painted over the soffit vents so they are blocked.
He's been away for the weekend but when he gets home
he will be getting his ass up on a ladder to rake the snow
that I couldn't reach from the ground.  More white stuff
coming tomorrow. Oy.


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## nh1234 (Jan 31, 2011)

Been reading all of this great stuff about ice dams..cause and effect stuff.  While proper construction can minimize the problem it is not always possible to revise mistakes made in original construction.  Two years ago I had BIG problems with ice dams and then of course water damage.  Did a LOT of researching and a lot of possible resolutions do not work.  Finally found a resolution
while it is NOT cheap it will resolve the issue.  Go to the folling link and check it out http://www.bylinusa.com/roof_ice_melt/RIM.html


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## henkmeuzelaar (Jan 31, 2011)

nh1234 said:
			
		

> Been reading all of this great stuff about ice dams..cause and effect stuff.  While proper construction can minimize the problem it is not always possible to revise mistakes made in original construction.  Two years ago I had BIG problems with ice dams and then of course water damage.  Did a LOT of researching and a lot of possible resolutions do not work.  Finally found a resolution
> while it is NOT cheap it will resolve the issue.  Go to the folling link and check it out http://www.bylinusa.com/roof_ice_melt/RIM.html



Yeah, that looks like a technically satisfying technology.

Although installation is probably quite costly if you don't already have a proper aluminum roof skirt installed I think there are a number of ways DIY installers can achieve safe and effective results; e.g. by burying a heat cable under an existing skirt (so it does not get damaged by the ice and does not just form ice tunnels/caves but spreads the heat out over a much larger area. 

The biggest problem are the monthly operating costs. At 36 W/ft power consumption, let's say over a 100 ft long roof edge, we are talking 3.6 kW
If you need to run this for an entire month you could use up more than 2600 kWh. In many areas this could set you back 300 to 500 dollar per month, just for keeping the ice from the roof.

I know that with proper control and regulation, you could probably reduce that by a factor 2 or 3 in milder climates or winters, Yet, when I see numbers like that (added onto the installation cost) I would rather spend my money on trying to achieve a properly insulated roof.

Henk


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## nh1234 (Jan 31, 2011)

I totally agree about the possible cost of installation AND I am NOT happy about the ongoing cost to run the damned things..BUT I was less thrilled about the water damage and cost associated with that.  I installed it myself (not difficult) and it seems to be working great..will NOT be happy to get the electric bill BUT and very happy right now that I do not have water running into the house.  If it were at all possible I would have chosen trying to fix things with proper ventilation.  Just thought I would let people know what is out there..  Last poster did a great job of reviewing the product and discovered the pitfalls very quickly.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 31, 2011)

peakbagger said:
			
		

> One overlooked cause of ice dams on homes with proper insulation and clear soffit vents is blocked ridge vents. Many new homes have ridge vents only with no gable end vents. The ridge vents work great until a  big snow storm covers them over, then the attic warms up and its ice dam time until the vents are clear.
> 
> By the way, most newer roofs in snow areas are rated for 40 pounds per square foot live load. Once snow starts getting over 4' the roof is probably at or near design load. Very rarely does a roof fail slowly, usually it fails from a defect in the original construction and when they go, they usually go quickly.



For what it is worth 70 lbs per square foot is code where I am.


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## slls (Jan 31, 2011)

Kevin C said:
			
		

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Home made, 25 ft long aluminum 1 inch tubing, 2 aluminum licence plates attached on the end. 
Rake a story and half house. Tubing was from a huge TV antenna given to me. I believe it's the only one in captivity.
I only rake one side of the house, where the sun hits most, melts then freezes at the eves, other side doesn't bother.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 31, 2011)

Kevin C said:
			
		

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One of these: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=Roof+Rake&x=0&y=0


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## henkmeuzelaar (Jan 31, 2011)

slls said:
			
		

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Ah, great Idea!

We just switched Utah license plates for Idaho ones (hope my wife did not yet throw them away....).

Henk


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## Czech (Jan 31, 2011)

Two things really quick, not sure if mentioned. Rather than adapt your shower head, what's wrong with the clothes washer hook up or water heater drain to connect a hose? Both are most likely male hose thread. For soffet vents, a leaf blower from the outside in during the nicer months assures that your blown in insulation is not covering the vent.


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## Shortstuff (Feb 1, 2011)

Here's just a peek at what I tried to get off my roof today.  Just to the left of the chimney there's a valley that actually had a measured 40" of snow in it which is now gone.  I'll be sore tomorrow.


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## jumpink (Feb 1, 2011)

Thanks Smokey.  All the retailers are sold out on the rakes, looks like I have to get creative and improvise. 

I have huge ice dams all around the entire house.  I thought it was because I never cleaned out the gutters in the fall but reading this post makes me think it is more like an insulation issue.


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## Kevin Willis (Feb 1, 2011)

Shortstuff said:
			
		

> Here's just a peek at what I tried to get off my roof today.  Just to the left of the chimney there's a valley that actually had a measured 40" of snow in it which is now gone.  I'll be sore tomorrow.





That is some nasty looking ice, It must be one well built house. I have never seen ice like that except at the lodge snow skiing or something. wow


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## Don2222 (Feb 1, 2011)

Hello

Any ideas on this?

I have good insulation but I still have a premature melt line from the sofit all the way up to the ridge right where the Vent pipe is??
It makes more icicles on the overhang outside the bathroom window and drives me nuts

So what do I do to prevent this?

Pic 1 & 3 shows issue

Pic 2 shows aluminum foil coated foam board I screwed into the 2 rafters where the vent is from the sofit to the ridge as a possible fix??


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## Shortstuff (Feb 2, 2011)

*Don2222* it looks like that is a PVC pipe.  It wouldn't hurt to add another foot or two with a coupler would it?


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## FordMastertech (Feb 2, 2011)

Don2222 said:
			
		

> Hello
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> Any ideas on this?
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Heat is going up the vent pipe chaceway in the walls. Spray foam it in the attic where the vent pipe exits the ceiling below.


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## Don2222 (Feb 2, 2011)

FordMastertech said:
			
		

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That is a good idea!

I do have fiberglass insulation around it but maybe not a good seal?


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## Don2222 (Feb 2, 2011)

Shortstuff said:
			
		

> *Don2222* it looks like that is a PVC pipe.  It wouldn't hurt to add another foot or two with a coupler would it?



Thanks for the reply. It is copper. When the house was built in 1962 copper was cheap!
However you are right, I think according to the latest building codes it is too short. Should it be 18 inches? Can I just sweat another copper piece with a coupler?


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## Shortstuff (Feb 2, 2011)

Don2222 said:
			
		

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I don't know what your codes are up in NH but you can go to your NH government website and find the link to building codes.  Sure you can sweat on a copper coupler and add another pipe or just purchase a rubber collar and add another piece too.


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## Don2222 (Feb 2, 2011)

Shortstuff said:
			
		

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It says 12 inches on E-How, mine looks shorter?

From E-How  http://www.ehow.com/how_7686231_work-sewer-vent-pipes.html
Cut the vent pipe so it is it 12 inches above the roof, or what code dictates in your area.

Read more: How to Work on Sewer Vent Pipes | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/how_7686231_work-sewer-vent-pipes.html#ixzz1CldTpiOK

Here is something else I found.
Kentucky plumbing code and look in Section 15. Main Stack 3 inches in diameter. One foot above the roof or five feet above the roof if accessible.

Also (This is it!) -- Thanks for your help!
The code book from IPC, unless some changes have been made, The lowest acceptable height of a stack in NH is 12". We have snow here so where you live may be different.

And must be 2' above and 10' away from any opening window.


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## jumpink (Feb 2, 2011)

Shortstuff,

Did you attack that ice dam?  What was your plan?


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## Shortstuff (Feb 2, 2011)

Kevin C said:
			
		

> Shortstuff,
> 
> Did you attack that ice dam?  What was your plan?



All I could do was snow rake what I could initially reach then using a hand-held ax (heavy and wedge-shaped) I chopped off about a 10' length of the ice dam.  I then got up on the roof and shoveled off as much as I could get done in 6 hours in that general area.  I probably cleared about 500 sq.ft. of roof right down to the shingles in that time.  The rest of the roof averages from between 1' to 2' of snow on it which I can live with for now.  If we were to expect more heavy snow I will probably get back up there and clear off more.

I've been told that my trusses were designed to hold a good 4' of snow load but of course depending on the type of snow it is (wet/packed/loose/light) that number could vary quite a bit.  It's more of a judgment call I think.  Now if I were to start hearing a lot of "snap-crackle-pop" then I think I've pressed my luck a little too much - and it's probably too late to deal with.


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## pete324rocket (Feb 2, 2011)

I'm glad to see that you didn't shy away from the axe. Yes,if you can't hit things straight and your eyesight is poor,you can do a lot of damage. An axe can really move a lot of ice that beats hot water and salt.


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## jumpink (Feb 2, 2011)

Shortstuff said:
			
		

> Kevin C said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The section that you broke with the ax, were you able to remove it in chunks?  Did it look like the ice had backed up under the shingles?


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## Shortstuff (Feb 2, 2011)

I was able to get it off in good size chunks, softball size and larger.  And yes it did get up under the shingles as is the nature of the beast.


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## pete324rocket (Feb 2, 2011)

I haven't examined the whole thread here,maybe it was discussed, but road salt is slow and there are much better "melters" on the market that cost more but pay for themselves in time and effort and will work very nicely in lower temps where road salt stops working. Also some less damaging to surroundings-nature friendly,but just as effective.


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## smilejamaica (Feb 2, 2011)

pete324rocket said:
			
		

> I haven't examined the whole thread here,maybe it was discussed, but road salt is slow and there are much better "melters" on the market that cost more but pay for themselves in time and effort and will work very nicely in lower temps where road salt stops working. Also some less damaging to surroundings-nature friendly,but just as effective.


the problem with that is finding it for sale . unless you buy it online pretty much everyone eles bought all the stores out around here


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## pete324rocket (Feb 2, 2011)

check your local garden center selection. There are many other ice melters...calcium chloride (used in the concrete industry) urea is pure nitrogen(60-0-0)...etc
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_melt#Surface_treatments


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## Xena (Feb 3, 2011)

My brother broke up some ice dams today on our house.

Update:  Before and after pic of brother breaking up ice dam
with an ice pick and a hammer.  Worked pretty good actually.
Can't tell but we raked back a couple feet from the edge.
At least most of the leaks stopped. 
Tomorrow I will try to reach more of that snow with the rake
which should make the leak completely cease.

and a video of the oh so exciting ice dam breaking process. lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuyeLYR-qDg


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## mikeasmel (Feb 4, 2011)

Is it ok to blast hot water on my ice dams that are too high up on my roof for me to reach with a roof rake? Also, is it ok to use the hot water when the temperature is 20 degrees or so here (well below freezing?). Also, since I had a small leak into my living room from the ice dam, am I running the risk of having the hot water leak through the roof? I need to get these ice dams off my house, but I have them all over the place on multiple levels that are hard to reach. If it's helpful, I can certainly post some photos. Thanks!

Michael G.


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## Pellet-King (Feb 5, 2011)

I have no leaks so far but have some serious ice build-up in my gutters, i will make a bunch of Ice Socks from my wife's P-hose tommorow and throw them up there.
Strange how they say to lay them vertical on the roof, than horizontal in the gutter.


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## Xena (Feb 5, 2011)

Two hours ago I put a couple of homemade "roof socks" on the roof
in areas that had leaks and the leaks have stopped.  I cut the legs
of a pair of pantyhose and filled each one with calcium chloride
then tossed them on the roof and positioned them vertical with
the ends hanging over the gutter a bit.  What it does is helps to
cut a channel in the ice that will allow the water to run down.
I haven't gone back outside but the leak has stopped.  It's best
if you can to rake the snow about 6 ft back from the gutter
and then put a sock in place.   This is a big pita.  The hell with
the snowplowing money, I can't wait for Spring!


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## btuser (Feb 5, 2011)

A nice trick I just learned was to use a hammer with the curved end of a flat bar.  You strike the back side of the flat bar and drive the curved end into the ice.  A chuck of ice will pop out, and the remaining ice will stop the flatbar from penetrating any father, which is nice if you've ever driven a hatchet through your rake edge (guilty).  this probably wouldn't work too well on 2' of ice but for an area starting but build up over my gutters it was pretty cool.


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## jtakeman (Feb 5, 2011)

Looks like its my turn for roof socks-ice socks-gutter socks or what ever you call them. No ice dam leaks yet. But the wifey is getting nervous with all the roof collapsing happening. Last night my son heard a loud pop over his room and we went up in the attic. Everything looks fine, But there is more snow on the roof than I though. So to settle the nerves. We will rack the roof and put up some ice socks. Heck I may just toss some calcium chloride all over the roof to help melt whats there. No stinking way this old fool is scrambling on the roof to shovel. I rather pay to have a new roof installed, But read that calcium chloride doesn't damage the shingles. Neighbors out to get a kick out of me flinging ice-melt into the sky!

Off to Lowes for ice melt and another excuse to see what they have for pellets left!


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## ChandlerR (Feb 5, 2011)

Jay, did the calcium chloride search yesterday. Nothing at HD, nada at Lowes, nothing at my local ACE hardware...Finally found some at CP Building Supply in South Hampton. It was under the brand name Ice Melt.

My roof looks fine on the main house but the addition has some ice.  I did have to shovel off the roof of the motorhome in case we get some rain.


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## Xena (Feb 5, 2011)

The pantyhose filled with calcium chloride works.
Put a couple up last night and they are melting
a channel in the dams and water is flowing off
now. Proof by the blue color in the snow below.
I too am not going up on the roof so between
raking and these I think things are under control now.


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## MCPO (Feb 5, 2011)

Phatty said:
			
		

> ok ive searched and didnt find what i am looking for .i have ice dams again this year after every snow fall i rake the roof
> never had this problem till i addad a second layer of insulation 3 years ago i made sure the eves were not covered with
> insulation this house is 100 plus years old has blown in insulation in the walls ive seen pics on here of pink foam between
> the joists in the attic is this the easiest fix ?


 
The best method to eliminate ice dams is to install vents in the entire length of the overhangs  (soffits) and install a ridge vent .
 You must also ensure the attic floor insulation doesn`t not block the airflow from those soffit vents . (directly above the outside walls.  Some builders still think insulating that space is the way to go but they are very wrong. The use of styrofoam boards are useful here.
 However if you have gutters you will still be susceptable to ice build up and overflowing in them right up and onto the roof edge depending on weather conditions. Of course you can install gutter heating cables to melt that ice but they don`t last forever either and you need outlets installed for them.(it gets expensive) 
 And those cables make it harder to clean the gutters out too.
 Anyway you dice it winter is a real PIA.


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## Pellet-King (Feb 5, 2011)

My 1950's house has NO overhang, the gutter is the only ice filled overhang there is........ 
What were people thinking back then?
I have never owned a home with leaks so I guess I'm lucky.


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## wilburg (Feb 5, 2011)

mikeasmel said:
			
		

> Is it ok to blast hot water on my ice dams that are too high up on my roof for me to reach with a roof rake? Also, is it ok to use the hot water when the temperature is 20 degrees or so here (well below freezing?). Also, since I had a small leak into my living room from the ice dam, am I running the risk of having the hot water leak through the roof? I need to get these ice dams off my house, but I have them all over the place on multiple levels that are hard to reach. If it's helpful, I can certainly post some photos. Thanks!
> 
> Michael G.



I dont think I would blindly just spray hot water up there.. you need to get on a ladder and spray directly into the ice making a channel, you should be about 1 -2 feet from the area your spraying...  If you doing it like I described your will cut a channel in the ice within minutes so you shouldnt worry about more water leaking through the roof .. not anymore than already is.    You dont have to get alll the ice off the roof, just make channels so the standing water goes off the house and doesn't pool behind the dam .. hence the name "dam"

On the first floor of my mutli level, I just ran the hose to the upstairs and stuck my hand out the window and sprayed the dam from inside the house.  The second floor roof may need a big ladder.


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## jtakeman (Feb 5, 2011)

I found ice melt at Lowes(checked the pellets too!) And bought a pole to put them up there. Racked about a foot of snow off about a foot up the roof. Place a sock every 5 or 6 feet. Holy cow the stuff is raining off the gutters right now. Got some strange looks from the locals staring out there windows. "What the heck is he doing out there" looks as I was putting them up. 

Wonder how many will join suite after they see mine clear in a few days?


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## Fish On (Feb 6, 2011)

yup i did the snake thing to. i did have one ice dam and i just caught it quick. it was thick and i chiseled away at it for a while then my leak stopped. 

i also bought the last ladder at HD today! glad i did our it would have been worse.

funny telling my wife to go buy pantie liners, she was getting worried about me


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## Don2222 (Feb 6, 2011)

Wilburg said:
			
		

> What I did to atatch a Garden hose to my shower:
> 
> 1) get an adapter for a handheld shower head (silver piece)
> 2) fit an adapter for a 3/4inch hose (brass piece)
> ...



Hello Wilburg

Hot water hose blasting kit for shower!

1. Watts A-668                  $2.95    
    3/4 " MH to 1/2 " FIP

2. Shower Diverter          $15.98

______________Total    $18.93

I got these at Home Depot. Is this it??


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## wilburg (Feb 6, 2011)

Exactly!  Let me know how you do tomorrow!


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## nosaudioil (Feb 6, 2011)

Ice dams, I've got 'em!


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## Don2222 (Feb 6, 2011)

Xena said:
			
		

> Two hours ago I put a couple of homemade "roof socks" on the roof
> in areas that had leaks and the leaks have stopped.  I cut the legs
> of a pair of pantyhose and filled each one with calcium chloride
> then tossed them on the roof and positioned them vertical with
> ...



Do you have Grace Ice & water shield under the shingles?


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## smilejamaica (Feb 6, 2011)

Don2222 said:
			
		

> Wilburg said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


you could have just bought a laundry faucet adapter you just have to figure out if you need a male or female fits to your kitchen or bathroom sink i bought mine at home depot $ 4.95.


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## save$ (Feb 6, 2011)

No Ice Dams and only a few  thin icicles on the eves of my house.  But some thick snow drifts, some about 2-3 feet.   My son came to my rescue.  He raked the drifts off the house, porch, deck and solar space.  haven't seen snow like this for many years. Saw a new snow rake, called a razor  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpZLqw8v3LY&NR=1   Looks really neat, but cost about $130.    Anyone tried one of these out?


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## Don2222 (Feb 6, 2011)

Hello

Ice Dam Roof Leak Temporary Solution!!
Have you heard about putting a fan in the attic to pull in cool air to stop the roof from leaking??

From "This Old House"
http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/asktoh/question/0,,518918,00.html

One thing they do not say here is that you will have to crank up the pellet stove in the living space because it will make the house sooooo drafty !! LOL


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## Xena (Feb 6, 2011)

Don2222 said:
			
		

> Do you have Grace Ice & water shield under the shingles?



No.  

Now it's pouring rain outside. Tomorrow my brother and
another guy are going to shovel the whole roof off.
Like I said, skrew the snowplowing income.  I don't care
if we don't see another snowflake this season.


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## Don2222 (Feb 6, 2011)

Xena said:
			
		

> Don2222 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Oh, that is too bad, that would prevent the roof leaking. Maybe the first few rows of shingles could be pulled in the summer and the Ice & Water shield put down in the summer? You just need to go about 6 feet up on the front and back.

Well maybe the rain will wash all that snow off the roof. That would be nice


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## UncleAnthony (Feb 6, 2011)

j-takeman said:
			
		

> Looks like its my turn for roof socks-ice socks-gutter socks or what ever you call them. No ice dam leaks yet. But the wifey is getting nervous with all the roof collapsing happening. Last night my son heard a loud pop over his room and we went up in the attic. Everything looks fine, But there is more snow on the roof than I though. So to settle the nerves. We will rack the roof and put up some ice socks. Heck I may just toss some calcium chloride all over the roof to help melt whats there. No stinking way this old fool is scrambling on the roof to shovel. I rather pay to have a new roof installed, But read that calcium chloride doesn't damage the shingles. Neighbors out to get a kick out of me flinging ice-melt into the sky!
> 
> Off to Lowes for ice melt and another excuse to see what they have for pellets left!



I use the ice socks too. Finding out now to use them after raking roof above ice dam. If now luck at lowes, Walmart has good selection of calcium chloride,
been using Morton ice melt (-25c) , it is calcium chloride. Have read that just tossing ice melt on roof is not too effective,
but then again, read that at sites who sell ice socks!
Good luck !


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## UncleAnthony (Feb 6, 2011)

j-takeman said:
			
		

> I found ice melt at Lowes(checked the pellets too!) And bought a pole to put them up there. Racked about a foot of snow off about a foot up the roof. Place a sock every 5 or 6 feet. Holy cow the stuff is raining off the gutters right now. Got some strange looks from the locals staring out there windows. "What the heck is he doing out there" looks as I was putting them up.
> 
> Wonder how many will join suite after they see mine clear in a few days?



oops , sorry just saw this post ! Glad things are working (raining ! ).  Yeh, I bet my neighbor's wonder what the
heck i'm doing when i throw the socks up !


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## Phatty (Feb 6, 2011)

just tell em you grew up in the inner city but being the country you thro sox on roofs instead of sneakers on power lines


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## Xena (Feb 6, 2011)

Don2222 said:
			
		

> Well maybe the rain will wash all that snow off the roof. That would be nice



Yeah I wasn't waiting for that to happen cuz more water would have
come into my house.  My brother went up there from midnight to 2 am
and shoveled a third of it, then today I hired a guy to do the rest.
They both did a wonderful job!
There are two additions in the back that you can't see in the pic
so yeah there was a lot of snow.  Over 30" of snow on much of it.
  Now come on Spring I wanna ride the harley and go kayaking!


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## jtakeman (Feb 6, 2011)

Xena, If it wasn't for all them snow piles in front. You'd think it was spring there! 

Well the roof socks did as claimed. Burned channels right down to the gutter.  I started something as the locals are all out racking and shoveling the roofs. I had another project as the dog could now walk over the fence into the nieghbors yard. Had to get the snowblower out and clear the dog pen of snow. Yellow snow and all. Heck I even saw poop fly!   ;-P 

I hate's winter! :sick:


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## UncleAnthony (Feb 6, 2011)

Phatty said:
			
		

> just tell em you grew up in the inner city but being the country you thro sox on roofs instead of sneakers on power lines



Now that's funny !  
But, the truth is stranger than fiction !


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## Shortstuff (Feb 7, 2011)

Something else to start thinking about is the late winter, early spring thaw.  With almost double our annual snowfall already (and more to come) any problems anyone has had with flooded cellars is probably going to be a lot worse this year.  After shoveling all the snow off my roof(s) I know that I've got tons of snow within 10' of my foundation that I am already planning to remove as soon as I can to help lessen the impact of potential flooding.

There's a good chance that there's going to be a lot of people looking for a sump pump and they may be hard to find when the time comes.

Just something to think about.


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## Xena (Feb 7, 2011)

Shortstuff my brother and I were talking about that
the other day.  Last March after we got water in the
basement as did many people, we installed a sump
pump in the basement floor.  Rented a jackhammer
to make the hole then followed instructions I found
on the web to complete the project.


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## FordMastertech (Feb 7, 2011)

Shortstuff said:
			
		

> Something else to start thinking about is the late winter, early spring thaw.  With almost double our annual snowfall already (and more to come) any problems anyone has had with flooded cellars is probably going to be a lot worse this year.  After shoveling all the snow off my roof(s) I know that I've got tons of snow within 10' of my foundation that I am already planning to remove as soon as I can to help lessen the impact of potential flooding.
> 
> There's a good chance that there's going to be a lot of people looking for a sump pump and they may be hard to find when the time comes.
> 
> Just something to think about.


I have been saying the same thing to many people. I recently installed a Basement Watchdog Big Dog Backup Sump Pump and sistered it into my original 1/2 HP pump. I have always worried about sump pump failures or power outages flooding my basement. My basement doesn't flood but when the spring thaw happens or a real heavy 4 to 5 inch rainfall occurs I do get water in the sump pit and quickly at times. With my pellet stash right next to the sump I decided to install a backup system and not worry about it any more.


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## Don2222 (Feb 15, 2011)

Wilburg said:
			
		

> Exactly!  Let me know how you do tomorrow!



Hello Wilburg

Well I finally did something.

Even though I liked your idea very much, I went with a Brass T and Boiler Drain above my Hot water Tank.

All I had to do is shut of the water and boiler and sweat it in! Also I can just hook up the hose and bring it right thru the garage and blast the front steps!


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## wilburg (Feb 16, 2011)

Wow, nice work.  I used the shower
Because I need tempered water
To wash my dogs.


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## FordMastertech (Feb 16, 2011)

Have hot and cold frost proof sillcocks in the garage and back of house by the hot tub.


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## Don2222 (Feb 16, 2011)

Wilburg said:
			
		

> Wow, nice work.  I used the shower
> Because I need tempered water
> To wash my dogs.



Thanks Wilburg

I also picked up one of these at Walgreens for $19.95 for the Garden Hose!

Water Jet
See > http://tinyurl.com/68sudmd

So with the pure Hot Water right from the Hot water Tank and the Pressure attachment it cuts thru the Ice like a Knife thru BUTTER !!


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## KINGOFTHENORTH (Feb 17, 2011)

Check out this roof rake...Looks effective.             http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvrBAVioOSY&feature=related


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