# Attracting rat snakes?



## eclecticcottage (Feb 28, 2015)

So we have a shrew problem.  And we don't really have an ideal location for a Barn Owl box.  Don't bother suggesting a cat-our dog HATES cats and I'm not into having an outdoor cat-especially after watching a coyote hanging out in the backyard yesterday (I'm ok with it being here if it stays at the back-it can take care of the rabbits and field mice).  Also, cats won't eat shrews (they stink) so I don't know if they will bother killing them either.  HOWEVER, a couple racers or black rat snakes would be excellent.  I like snakes, at least non-venomous ones. I've never seen ANY snakes here at the cottage, not even a garter .  At least at the old house, we had garters.  Anyone got ideas how to attract me some snake friends?  I wish I knew where to catch some and move them into the wood stacks/around the house.


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## osagebow (Feb 28, 2015)

Check under old boards, tin sheets, brick piles,dilapidated buildings. If you import some they occasionally stick around if there is food And suitable places to hibernate. I have a nice 5' back rat and 4' milk around I brought in from some less egalitarian neighbors. The black racers are too high strung to stick around, and hell to catch. Good luck!


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## woodgeek (Mar 1, 2015)

I've got 0.25 acres covered in English ivy and other vines and plenty of rodent types creatures.  Never seen a snake, but I figure I must have quite a few, but they are well hidden.


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## semipro (Mar 1, 2015)

Maybe the coyote was after the shrews?
I'm curious, what problems do the shrews create?
According to this site they are beneficial to the landscape. http://www.ccpa.net/DocumentCenter/Home/View/6476
My mother-in-law complains about moles and the tunnels they make in her yard.  She seems determined to kill them.  I always wonder why when the apparent 'damage' is aerated soil and fewer insect pests.

Two things I know from experience that snakes like; food and physical structures that aid in shedding. The snakes around our place obviously like the toads, rodents, chip monks, and the rock walls of our house for shedding. In fact, they seem to return to the higher vertical rock walls at our place regularly to shed.


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## eclecticcottage (Mar 1, 2015)

Shrews are probably ok if they stay in the garden.  When they take up residence in the house, not so much.  After three years of trying to close off entrances and evict them, I'm getting frustrated.  Apparently they have a scent that attracts other shrews (why I don't know, they are cannibals) and if there's been one in the house they will keep trying to get in.  I need something outside eating them in addition to what we're trying inside to treat where we think they've been then more sealing once it gets warm out.


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## semipro (Mar 1, 2015)

eclecticcottage said:


> Shrews are probably ok if they stay in the garden.  When they take up residence in the house, not so much.  After three years of trying to close off entrances and evict them, I'm getting frustrated.  Apparently they have a scent that attracts other shrews (why I don't know, they are cannibals) and if there's been one in the house they will keep trying to get in.  I need something outside eating them in addition to what we're trying inside to treat where we think they've been then more sealing once it gets warm out.


Do you want snakes in your house? 
I like having snakes around outside but they tend to create problems in the house.  
If shrews can get into your your house then snakes can and snakes will follow the food source.


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## FTG-05 (Mar 1, 2015)

Cats or rats, take your pick.  If it's rats, get ready for the snakes that aren't all that far behind.

I've got three kittys, they are fanatical hunters, mice, rats, chipmunks and moles.  They stay in the shop but I've found them up at the pole barn as well.  No rats or mice up there as well!

That's good, because my wife hates snakes.

The other downside to snakes is:  They don't eat all that much.  A good sized snake may only eat once per week and that's during the spring and summer months.  When it gets cold, forget it.  The mice and rats will outbreed it by a bunch.


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## eclecticcottage (Mar 1, 2015)

Lol, when I mentioned snakes to DH he said something like "I don't want snakes flying through the house", which I immediately pictured and couldn't stop laughing.  I don't really want them in the house, but something needs to tend to this shrew population.  We do have raptors around, just not many.  I think the neighbors might kill us, the only good spot for an owl house is near their house-and owls, of course, are nocturnal. 

BTW the coyote was eating apples that fell from the tree in fall.  We walked down to check it out after it left.  No signs of mice, shrews, rabbits, etc.

Shrews are harder than rodents to trap, since they prefer live prey.

Our coyote visitor:


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## heat seeker (Mar 1, 2015)

Nice photo! We get the occasional coyote eating our apples, too.


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## semipro (Mar 1, 2015)

I had no idea coyotes would eat apples.  We have both but I've never seen them together.


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## semipro (Mar 1, 2015)

eclecticcottage said:


> Don't bother suggesting a cat-our dog HATES cats and I'm not into having an outdoor cat-especially after watching a coyote hanging out in the backyard yesterday


I understand the sentiment.  Some cat-hating dogs will tolerate or befriend kittens. Of course there's no guarantee the cat will even be a shrew hunter but odds are good.


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## heat seeker (Mar 1, 2015)

Here's one we had. He looked pretty healthy. We've had some really emaciated looking ones here, too.


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## eclecticcottage (Mar 1, 2015)

Beautiful!  Much redder coloring than the one we had.  I've heard them many, many times and seen them around in the fields but this was the first time I saw one in the yard.  I've seen fox down there before though, the neighbors have a pile of brush and said there's rabbits that live in it.


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## osagebow (Mar 1, 2015)

Found a pic of our gal when she was released here years ago at about 4' . I can identify a lot of my coldblooded critters by coloration and pattern. .She's very mellow,and  was full of eggs last time I spotted her. I hope her young did well.

I think your "shrews" might be voles. I'm not sure shrews commonly have large population densities, but voles, yeah. The tiny little shrews will eat voles and mice

http://www.ccpa.net/DocumentCenter/Home/View/6476

.


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## eclecticcottage (Mar 2, 2015)

That snake is a beauty.  I could use some of those offspring!

No, I wish they were voles.  They are definitely shrews.  We've caught some on sticky traps and I ID'd them via photos.  I thought they were voles the first time we caught one, I'd never heard of a shrew before.


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## bobdog2o02 (Mar 2, 2015)

semipro said:


> I had no idea coyotes would eat apples.  We have both but I've never seen them together.



Wild dogs are omnivores just like bears.  Foxes wolves and coyotes will all eat fruit when available..... and sometimes even grasses.


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## denjohn (Mar 3, 2015)

Eclectic.........My experience is that you are right: 


> "Also, cats won't eat shrews (they stink) so I don't know if they will bother killing them either."


My experience is in Saipan, 15* N latitude, where I winter.
We have lotsa cats around and some shrews and some rats.
The cats kill and eat the rats, but on only one occasion have I seen a cat kill a shrew, even then it did not eat it.
The cats usually ignore the shrews, I witness that most evenings.
Online reading suggested that shrews don’t usually stay indoors, that seems to be the case here, seems to be one that comes thru for nocturnal rounds.
Good luck.


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## osagebow (Mar 3, 2015)

Ok, so we know the y are shrews, sorry if I sounded dismissive. Do you also have a large Japanese (or other soil grub)beetle population? That could explain the high shrew numbers. A special bacteria called milky spore will eradicate the grubs, reducing the shrews' carrying capacity.

EDIT-good info here
http://www.gardensalive.com/product/milky-spore-disease/


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## Charlotte987 (Mar 4, 2015)

One of my cats; a semi-feral female kills shrews, she never eats them though. She's made it a point to kill every shrew she encounters, and there have been many. I'd suggest a cat, a female or male kitten, say offspring of a feral female or a barn cat. The cat's mother usually teaches her kittens to hunt at a certain age, if the mother is a hunter its likely that her first-born female will be taught to hunt at a young age. If the kitten is taken away too early, before say three months old, she won't have been taught to hunt, but if she's with her mother for longer then she will kill shrews and rodents easily. The problem is always if the cats have seen their parents hunt, and some even if they have, won't hunt except to eat. Actual true hunting cats are not easy to find, many will have the desire to hunt but not the ability, many will hunt for food only. I'd suggest that you find someone local with a barn cat with older kittens, and actually find out if there is a true hunter among them.

I've lent her out to a couple of friends for a day or two, when they had rodent problems. They said afterwards that it was like a bloody battlefield and they haven't seen any mice since.  Unfortunate that you can't have a cat in your present circumstances.

Now understand why my cat won't eat them:  

*Toxin*
The saliva of the northern short-tailed shrew contains a kallikrein-like protease, used to paralyze and subdue its prey. The toxin is strong enough to kill small animals, up to sizes somewhat larger than the shrew itself, and results in painful bites to humans who attempt to handle the shrew. The venomous saliva is secreted from submaxillary glands, through a duct which opens at the base of the lower incisors, where the saliva flows along the groove formed by the two incisors, and into the prey


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## eclecticcottage (Mar 4, 2015)

No problem osagebow, I didn't take it that way.  I also thought of voles, they do look kind of like them.  I found out about shrews when searching for a reason a vole would be in my house-and found someone on a forum somewhere suggesting that some else's "vole problem" might actually be a "shrew problem"-so I looked for shrew photos and found short tailed shrews look exactly like what was stuck to a sticky trap.

We do have a lot of Japanese beetles.  I've considered treating for them, but our lots are skinny so unless the neighbors do as well (not likely, many aren't even year round homes) it probably won't be very effective.  I must have "fed" 100 of the grubs to robins one year when I was putting in a garden (whenever I dug one up, I tossed it on the driveway.  Soon I had a couple robins hanging out in the trees waiting for me to find them).

Charlotte, I appreciate the thought, but cats aren't an option.  We have a number of predators, the neighbors dogs tend to run loose and our own dog HATES cats.  I happen to really like cats so I wouldn't want to put a cat through that.

I'm thinking I need to work on getting more predators around.  I know we had a 'coon family around because they managed to get into the garbage one night and we scared them when we were investigating the noise-all 4 or 5 of them!  I guess they are listed as predators, although I'm a little surprised.  Well, we won't be planting corn this year because they destroyed it last year, so maybe that will be a little incentive to eat shrews.  I found a dead weasel once on the beach, no idea if it came from around our house or if it washed up.  Not so sure I want those around though.  I think I'll let the local snake haters know I'm looking for a few good rat snakes-better to relocate them to the wood stacks and general house area than for them to meet a garden hoe anyway.


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## Hogwildz (Mar 4, 2015)

I guess I'm lucky. I have resident snakes around the house. And a rather large Ratsnake that lives in my garage, and loves to sun out front. Caught me off guard a few times. Hate when I am not expecting it to be there.
I let them be as mouse control.
Once I get the garage floor poured and the garage sealed up, he will have to relocate outside. Hope he ain't too spoiled.


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## osagebow (Mar 4, 2015)

Hogwildz said:


> I guess I'm lucky. I have resident snakes around the house. And a rather large Ratsnake that lives in my garage, and loves to sun out front. Caught me off guard a few times. Hate when I am not expecting it to be there.



Yeah, hate that. Our Rattlers are rare, but most are black so that first 1/2 second sucks wtheya black rat pops out of nowhere. Only had one in the house. Left the basement open, wife went to do laundry...


The worst thing about those grubs is they also attract skunks.


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## heat seeker (Mar 4, 2015)

Speaking of skunks, we had a very large albino one in the yard last year. Creepiest looking thing at night!


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## semipro (Mar 5, 2015)

osagebow said:


> Our Rattlers are rare, but most are black so that first 1/2 second sucks


Same here.  First a course of adrenaline then a cautious "let me see that round pupil".


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