# Sad articles from Greece



## Stella (Jan 18, 2013)

I thought you might be interested in the plight of those who cannot afford heating in Greece http://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/20...burn-wood-and-chat-about-the-heating-problem/ this led to this http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_wsite1_1_17/01/2013_479087
Sorry to be a bit despondent as I sit in warmth and relative comfort by my stove.


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## Jack Straw (Jan 18, 2013)

This will be in the Asn Can in 5 4 3 2 1.


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## albert1029 (Jan 18, 2013)

how terrible...this is a tragic situation...I was stationed on Cyprus and visited Athens a couple of times, worked with a lot of Greek sailors on merchant ships and I really like these wonderful people...I feel for them...


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## Stella (Jan 18, 2013)

Jack Straw said:


> This will be in the Asn Can in 5 4 3 2 1.


Sorry don't know what this means, please explain?


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## Jack Straw (Jan 18, 2013)

Stella said:


> Sorry don't know what this means, please explain?



You did nothing wrong and it's a great article, I think this thread will get political very quickly and end up in the Ash Can where we talk politics.


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## Stella (Jan 18, 2013)

Jack Straw said:


> You did nothing wrong and it's a great article, I think this thread will get political very quickly and end up in the Ash Can where we talk politics.


Oh I see, I did not mean to be in any way contentious it's just that some people have absolutely no choice in the matter of what and when to burn and I sympathise with their plight.  Many people here have had their electricity cut off because they cannot pay and cannot afford to buy oil for heating because the price has increased by 50% due to additional taxes.  Oil suppliers are going out of business because of the high cost of their product so as a tax enhancer it was a bit like shooting yourself in the foot.


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## jharkin (Jan 18, 2013)

It is sad. It unfortunately also illustrates that as much as we love it, wood heat can't work for entire populations.


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## Stella (Jan 19, 2013)

jharkin said:


> It is sad. It unfortunately also illustrates that as much as we love it, wood heat can't work for entire populations.


Did when we lived in caves!


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## jharkin (Jan 19, 2013)

Stella said:


> Did when we lived in caves!


 
At 1 /100000 the size of modern populations.


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## swagler85 (Jan 19, 2013)

If the population had high efficient stoves and burned proper wood it could  be done. But as many other discussions have shown. Most people will never learn.


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## begreen (Jan 19, 2013)

jharkin said:


> It is sad. It unfortunately also illustrates that as much as we love it, wood heat can't work for entire populations.


 
No fuel will work for entire populations, especially in urban locations. Even with clean burning stoves you can only have a portion of a city's population burning wood before the effects start being felt. This can be exacerbated by the city's geography and climate.

FWIW, the life span of those cave dwellers was about 3 decades if they were lucky. A lot of short life spans are because of constant breathing of smoke used for cooking and heating in the third world. I like the Scandinavian approach where they have elevated pellet burning to a whole house system with pellets delivered in bulk, just like oil is delivered. In forest rich countries this make more sense.


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## firefighterjake (Jan 22, 2013)

begreen said:


> No fuel will work for entire populations, especially in urban locations. Even with clean burning stoves you can only have a portion of a city's population burning wood before the effects start being felt. This can be exacerbated by the city's geography and climate.
> 
> FWIW, the life span of those cave dwellers was about 3 decades if they were lucky. A lot of short life spans are because of constant breathing of smoke used for cooking and heating in the third world. I* like the Scandinavian approach where they have elevated pellet burning to a whole house system with pellets delivered in bulk, just like oil is delivered*. In forest rich countries this make more sense.


 
A few companies here in Maine are embracing that type of thinking . . . promoting whole home pellet furnaces and boilers and then providing bulk delivery into large hoppers.


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## begreen (Jan 24, 2013)

Yes, I remember when they started up a few years back. How is that working out?


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## BrowningBAR (Jan 24, 2013)

jharkin said:


> It is sad. It unfortunately also illustrates that as much as we love it, wood heat can't work for entire populations.


Nor do I want the entire population to heat with wood. If they did most of us would have to find yet another alternative to heating as wood pricing would skyrocket and scrounging would be nearly impossible.


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## granpajohn (Jan 24, 2013)

I do not generally read Greek language, but this article is worth looking at for the photos:
http://www.alphafm.gr/archives/61184

It basically shows the Greek/Albanian wood smugglers using their mules for transport. Ingenious, but I believe these were confiscated by the gov't.

I had a friend return from visiting family in Greece 2 weeks ago. He said the city folks are in bad shape; farmers somewhat better. (Our friends were farmers and had always burned wood for cooking and heating.)


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## Stella (Jan 26, 2013)

granpajohn said:


> I do not generally read Greek language, but this article is worth looking at for the photos:
> http://www.alphafm.gr/archives/61184
> 
> It basically shows the Greek/Albanian wood smugglers using their mules for transport. Ingenious, but I believe these were confiscated by the gov't.
> ...


Yes, so it seems here where most of us have access to some wood and a piece of land with trees.  This article may be of interest to you http://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/20...burn-wood-and-chat-about-the-heating-problem/


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## stoveguy2esw (Jan 26, 2013)

when times are hard people tend to revert to wood burning (or "anything burning") i have sympathy for those folks over in Greece. (could get really political right now but its too obvious to even start) shame that people have to resort to obviously inefficient wood burning practices to stay warm. 

IMHO hard times tend to cause people to "revert to type" notice the "wood scalpers" mentioned. supply and demand is a harsh system sometimes, particularly in hard times. the real question though is , will the Greeks respond with more than austerity , with an actual national ethos that they should have better, should work to have better, accept that they are in a mess as a country, but have a deep culture steeped in democracy and attack the issues which face them as a people with this heritage, or will they succumb to the immediate which saps the will to make a better place. Greece needs badly to find their roots, to re-realize "citizen government" to rekindle democracy.


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## begreen (Jan 26, 2013)

Stella, this is a bit off topic, but do you live in the Mani region? I'm reading a book about that area.


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## Stella (Jan 27, 2013)

begreen said:


> Stella, this is a bit off topic, but do you live in the Mani region? I'm reading a book about that area.


Hello Begreen, certainly do live most of the time in the Outer Mani, Peloponnese, where our holiday home is rapidly becoming my permanent home.


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## nate379 (Jan 27, 2013)

What is a tone in reference to buying wood?  How us buying in cubic meters a rip off, wouldn't that be like buying a cord?
About 3.5 cubic meters to a cord.


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## begreen (Jan 27, 2013)

Stella said:


> Hello Begreen, certainly do live most of the time in the Outer Mani, Peloponnese, where our holiday home is rapidly becoming my permanent home.


 
I'm reading Patrick Leigh Fermor's "_Mani - Travels in the Southern Peloponnese_". By his description, in 1958 the deep inner Mani was like a land that time forgot. He lived near Kardamyli. I love the olivea from this area and the oil too. Hope I get a chance to visit the area some time.


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## Stella (Jan 28, 2013)

begreen said:


> I'm reading Patrick Leigh Fermor's "_Mani - Travels in the Southern Peloponnese_". By his description, in 1958 the deep inner Mani was like a land that time forgot. He lived near Kardamyli. I love the olivea from this area and the oil too. Hope I get a chance to visit the area some time.


Hello begreen  Patrick died at the age of 96 in the last couple of years and his secluded house in Kalamitsi between Kardamili and Stoupa which is where my house is, has been left to the nation for as a writers' retreat.  The views all around from the rocky little beach in front of the house are spectacular looking up to the foothills of the Taygetos mountains which at the moment are tipped with snow. The film Ill met by Moonlight is based on his wartime experiences on the island of Crete, by the way.


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## begreen (Jan 28, 2013)

Yes, he was quite a remarkable man. He lived a very full and amazing life. I'm working my way through many of his books.  That sounds like a beautiful area.


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## Stella (Jan 29, 2013)

nate379 said:


> What is a tone in reference to buying wood? How us buying in cubic meters a rip off, wouldn't that be like buying a cord?
> About 3.5 cubic meters to a cord.


i have no idea what a cord is or what a ton of wood looks like but I was told by a Greek lady yesterday that a ton of wood would cost 200€.  Very much more than the cost last year.  Yet again we have another article on the cost of heating and the problems encountered with poorly ventilated houses and presumably wet wood http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_wsite6_1_24/01/2013_480138


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## granpajohn (Jan 29, 2013)

Seems like selling wood by the ton would be an incentive to sell it as wet as possible. Every day it seasons reduces the seller's income. Might be part of their smoke problem.
I will roughly estimate that a ton is about a half cord, but would vary greatly by species.

I have not kept up with this in recent years, but do Greeks still smoke Marlboros like mad? (Stella, that's tobacco smoking). If so, the Medical Association quotes in that news article seem a bit empty.


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## Stella (Jan 30, 2013)

granpajohn said:


> do Greeks still smoke Marlboros like mad?





granpajohn said:


> Seems like selling wood by the ton would be an incentive to sell it as wet as possible. Every day it seasons reduces the seller's income. Might be part of their smoke problem.
> I will roughly estimate that a ton is about a half cord, but would vary greatly by species.
> 
> I have not kept up with this in recent years, but do Greeks still smoke Marlboros like mad? (Stella, that's tobacco smoking). If so, the Medical Association quotes in that news article seem a bit empty.


Yes, they do and it seems anywhere they wish!  When we go out to eat, we tend to go early so as to leave before the smokers arrive.  A Greek friend told me that Greeks can do what they like which is why Greece is called a democracy.  I think he was being serious, no wonder Greece is in a mess.  You can barely see across the local cafenion in the winter for the fug of smoke inside.


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## albert1029 (Jan 30, 2013)

i like the outdoor cinemas in Greece/Cyprus...has smoke/smog affected them???


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## nate379 (Jan 30, 2013)

A cord is 128cu ft of wood.  That works out to around 3.5 cubic meters.

It's a much better measuring system for wood versus by weight.  Selling by weight would mean green wood would cost more than ready to burn seasoned wood!



Stella said:


> i have no idea what a cord is or what a ton of wood looks like but I was told by a Greek lady yesterday that a ton of wood would cost 200€. Very much more than the cost last year. Yet again we have another article on the cost of heating and the problems encountered with poorly ventilated houses and presumably wet wood http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_wsite6_1_24/01/2013_480138


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## Stella (Jan 31, 2013)

albert1029 said:


> i like the outdoor cinemas in Greece/Cyprus...has smoke/smog affected them???


Hi Albert1029  ! don't know because we do not have such facilities in this rural backwater.  What we have is a cultural centre which shows a film one evening a week and half way through there is a 15 minute fag break so the watchers do have to go outside to smoke.  Very few watchers are Greek incidentally, mainly Brits.


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## albert1029 (Jan 31, 2013)

Stella said:


> Hi Albert1029 ! don't know because we do not have such facilities in this rural backwater. What we have is a cultural centre which shows a film one evening a week and half way through there is a 15 minute fag break so the watchers do have to go outside to smoke. Very few watchers are Greek incidentally, mainly Brits.


right...Cyprus had a few, their indoor cinemas had ashtrays on the seat backs, they went down the aisles with refreshments at breaks...there were 3 subtitles, actually one was on top - Greek, Turkish, Arabic...went to outdoor cinema in Glifada...amphitheater, Greek tradition...


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## stoveguy2esw (Feb 3, 2013)

hi stella, i have to apologize for breaking form in discussing (though i meant to be apolitical) politics in your thread. i didnt notice until just now you actually live there. great to have you onboard, looking at your avatar looks like you have a beautiful unit to heat with. i love the look of it with that large glass front. my company builds stoves here in the US  but we do not export outside of north america. so im curious, what is the model of that stove if i may ask?


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## Stella (Feb 3, 2013)

stoveguy2esw said:


> hi stella, i have to apologize for breaking form in discussing (though i meant to be apolitical) politics in your thread. i didnt notice until just now you actually live there. great to have you onboard, looking at your avatar looks like you have a beautiful unit to heat with. i love the look of it with that large glass front. my company builds stoves here in the US but we do not export outside of north america. so im curious, what is the model of that stove if i may ask?


Hello Stoveguy, no need to apologise!  I did ask when I joined if it was OK because I live in Greece most of the time and got a lovely warm welcome!  I like the internet because it is non-geographic although I realise that my experiences and even language will be rather different from most of the members.  I chose my stove from the somewhat limited selection in Kalamata which is my nearest town, some 40 odd kilometres away and over a mountain range.  I picked on size and appearance because having previously had an open fire, I wanted to see the flames as that forms a big part of the winter evenings' entertainment.  I also wanted to be as certain as I could that what I was choosing would heat a large, draughty living room with cathedral vaulted ceiling in a stone house with no insulation.  I thought what will hold more will hold less, so I choose a Supra Mulhouse which had to be imported from France.  It is very basic with just an ash tray and a lever to open the air but thus far I have been very satisfied.  The warmth it throws out is great and if I want I can keep it in overnight.  Here in Southern Greece we have a short winter but it can be cold though here on the coast rarely below freezing, perhaps just once in every ten years.  I burn mainly olive wood from my trees, some pine from a friend's tree which blew down last year in the gales, pine cones to start the fire and a little mulberry. Of course I scrounge any wood I can as like everybody I don't want to spend money! I use the ash to put as fertilizer round the trees so nothing is wasted.


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## ScotO (Feb 3, 2013)

Welcome to the Hearth, Stella.  I've read your entire post here and it is sad what Greece has gone through recently......
That's a beautiful region you live in, you DO know we are partial to lots and lots of pictures, right?  
Anyway, I don't want to derail your thread, I just wanted to welcome you.  By the looks of it, you'll be a welcome addition to this great brotherhood on the forums....and it's nice to have a point of view/perspective from your geographic location!


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## Stella (Feb 3, 2013)

Scotty Overkill said:


> Welcome to the Hearth, Stella. I've read your entire post here and it is sad what Greece has gone through recently......
> That's a beautiful region you live in, you DO know we are partial to lots and lots of pictures, right?
> Anyway, I don't want to derail your thread, I just wanted to welcome you. By the looks of it, you'll be a welcome addition to this great brotherhood on the forums....and it's nice to have a point of view/perspective from your geographic location!


 

Hello Scott, thank you for your greeting which I have to say is typical of this forum and far more friendly than other camboards! If I had seen the choice of stoves you guys enjoy I have to say I would not have known what to pick, it was only when I found this forum that I saw the questions I should have asked before I bought, so just as well I was in ignorance. I will try to put a few pictures of our part of the world so you can imagine how we live. The pictures were taken yesterday in brilliant sunshine just above our house which is invisible and show the coast line and my husband adjusting his viewfinder and caves in the mountains where once animals and then Albanians lived. Incidentally from our balcony just now we watched two foxes loping up the hill watched by a buzzard.


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## ScotO (Feb 3, 2013)

Stella said:


> Hello Scott, thank you for your greeting which I have to say is typical of this forum and far more friendly than other camboards! If I had seen the choice of stoves you guys enjoy I have to say I would not have known what to pick, it was only when I found this forum that I saw the questions I should have asked before I bought, so just as well I was in ignorance. I will try to put a few pictures of our part of the world so you can imagine how we live.


that's absolutely beautiful over there, Stella! Just as I envisioned it!
As for stove choices, I was the same way. I bought my first 'house' stove several years before ever joining this site. Purely out of luck it turned out to be a good choice, it was used and I got a great deal on it. Since then, I've learned alot of great info from the guys and gals on here, this truly is a warm place to be (no puns intended). You should be fine, as your stove looks like it puts out pretty well. And the nice thing about woodstoves is once you have one installed and the flue correct, you can always upgrade if the current stove doesn't suit your needs.......
Thanks for sharing your pictures, look forward to more in your future posts!


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