# How do I find a stud...............



## WoodMann (Oct 9, 2009)

Hey folks- I'm looking to builde a custom cabinet for my newly acquired TV as well as other equipment; amp, xbox etc..... Ultimately I'd like to anchor the cabinet to studs in the wall and affix the TV to the cabinet so in the evnt of a break in the TV cannot be grabbed and ran of with. I've tried kocking half- heartedly but couldn't really hear a difference anywhere. Wonder if I should be more diligent, which I plan to go back over. Is it possible I can rent a studfinder somewhere.............
  Thanks


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## daveswoodhauler (Oct 9, 2009)

Studfinders are relatively inexpensive, so it might be time to saddle up and buy one....you'll use it more than once....don't get the cheapest one out there, as they don't read too well with thicker sheetrock/plaster.

Or, you could use some of those larger anchoring bolts that spead out behind the drywall....used those when installing some floor to ceiling cabinets, and they are pretty sturdy.


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## Fsappo (Oct 9, 2009)

I still use the old knock on the wall trick.  Hasnt failed me yet...that I know of


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## freeburn (Oct 9, 2009)

Find your nearest outlet and take the cover off. You should be able to see which side the stud is on. Measure from the center of that stud 16" on center to where you want to anchor to. That's the surest way without buying a stud finder. Knocking doesn't work on plaster, and can be deceiving. I wouldn't anchor a cabinet to just the sheetrock, I will pull through if someone tries to run off with your TV.


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## daveswoodhauler (Oct 9, 2009)

freeburn said:
			
		

> Find your nearest outlet and take the cover off. You should be able to see which side the stud is on. Measure from the center of that stud 16" on center to where you want to anchor to. That's the surest way without buying a stud finder. Knocking doesn't work on plaster, and can be deceiving. I wouldn't anchor a cabinet to just the sheetrock, I will pull through if someone tries to run off with your TV.



I tried this method, but some houses don't have framing 16" on center....I can show you the holes in the walls


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## freeburn (Oct 9, 2009)

Nice house, I say, someone was skimping, or didn't know what they were doing. "Ok, this looks far enough let's put one here."


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## vandedav (Oct 9, 2009)

try taking a large magnet and using it to find the screws/nails that hold the drywall in place.  cheapest studfinder, other than knocking, that i can think of.


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## kork (Oct 9, 2009)

If you have a half way decent magnet you can usually find the sheetrock nail/screws and then lightly draw plumb lines.


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## GVA (Oct 9, 2009)

2 things
1)any house pre 1960s'ish 16"oc ain't happening
2)the op residing in NM I'm guessing he might have  different walls than sheetrock...

Get a deep scan stud finder or use the old finish nail locator trick ;-)


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## Czech (Oct 9, 2009)

Pook! You just made my night, thanks, LMBO! As already mentioned, finders are relatively cheap, just buy one. Heck even the less than $10 I have does a good job, save some spackle. Once you have one, it's makes for drunken fun with the SO, usually you can point them at parts of your body and say "See honey?". Worth the money right there, even if it works only once.


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## LLigetfa (Oct 10, 2009)

I can't use a stud finder.  I set it off as soon as I touch it.  Measuring from an outlet and using a magnet works well.


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## Corey (Oct 10, 2009)

Generally what I do is drive a nail in the wall...it most likely won't hit a stud, so choose a direction - left or right.  Move over one inch and drive the nail in again...no stud, move one inch...no stud.  Keep going- I usually hit the stud on the 14th or 15th hole.    Then just hang the cabinet so it covers the holes.


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## WoodMann (Oct 10, 2009)

I knew that gay bar thing was comming. But thanks guys for all the pertinent replies. Yes- my walls are plaster which makes the knocking technique rather useless. I'll try the magnet and possibly outlet method. thing is, with the outlet, it's directly under on of the windows;


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## LLigetfa (Oct 10, 2009)

An outlet under a window is less likely to align on 16" centres.  What about a wall switch?  Look for nail holes on the baseboard to see if there is a pattern of 16" centres.  Just above the top of the baseboard is a good place to drive small finish nails to find a stud as it's easier to hide the nail holes you make.

Here is what a magnet stud finder looks like.


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## Cutter (Oct 10, 2009)

If your wood trims are stained as opposed to painted, you can see filled nail hole in the top edge of your baseboard.


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## GVA (Oct 10, 2009)

cozy heat said:
			
		

> Generally what I do is drive a nail in the wall...it most likely won't hit a stud, so choose a direction - left or right.  Move over one inch and drive the nail in again...no stud, move one inch...no stud.  Keep going- I usually hit the stud on the 14th or 15th hole.    Then just hang the cabinet so it covers the holes.



 :lol:


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## Gooserider (Oct 12, 2009)

The magnet may or may not work with a plaster wall, depends on what is backing up the plaster - if its wood lath you probably will have no problem, but I've seen plaster where they use a wire mesh, and that will give you a problem as the magnet will stick just about anywhere on the wall.

IMHO one of the newer electronic stud finders is a pretty reliable option, and they are fairly low cost, on the order of $15-20 for a good one.  What I find also helps is to look for the studs at 2-3 different heights along the wall, and working both left to right and right to left...  The locations that appear SHOULD be consistent and all line up vertically, if not, then do additional searching, and or probing with a thin nail.

Gooserider


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## Billster (Oct 12, 2009)

You can get a stud finder for under $10 and they work really well.

Here's one at lowes.

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=6089-355-77-110&lpage=none


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## Gooserider (Oct 12, 2009)

Billster said:
			
		

> You can get a stud finder for under $10 and they work really well.
> 
> Here's one at lowes.
> 
> http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=6089-355-77-110&lpage=none



Reviews on that unit were pretty negative, and the ratings were also pretty poor...  I would say that the unit is representative of the low end finders, which might work OK on some walls, but not real reliably.  I'd look for something a bit more capable - including separating the electrical wiring detection and stud locating functions, and possibly with a more graphical display.

On a more general note, Stanley used to be a good name in tools, but IMHO they have abandoned their quality in order to sell at low prices in the big-box stores, and these days their stuff is gimmicky consumer grade crap that is little better than any of the generic cheapo brands, only at a higher price point...  Sort of the hand tool equivalent of Homelite - a formerly great brand that is trying to live off it's old reputation while peddling crap...

Gooserider


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## ROBERT F (Oct 12, 2009)

FratFart said:
			
		

> tried hanging out at a gay bar?


"fratfart's" idea might work, but an ad in the classified might bring better "qualified" canidates. All depends on how long you plan on "renting" for.


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## Billster (Oct 12, 2009)

Gooserider said:
			
		

> Billster said:
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I was just trying to find the cheapest one I could find.. (Since he ask if he could rent one.) Harbor Freight has some cheap ones also.

I agree with you about Stanley. The stud finder I have is a "Zircon."... I don't think he wants to see the price of it.  :roll:  :lol:


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## WoodMann (Oct 12, 2009)

K guys- I went with the hammer and nail routine and I'll cover it all up with the cabinet. And no- no bars were visited in this undertaking.............


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## LLigetfa (Oct 12, 2009)

OK, we gotta know, how many holes did it take to find the stud?


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## WoodMann (Oct 12, 2009)

5 on the first one and 3 one the second...................


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## WoodMann (Oct 12, 2009)

Check................


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## kenny chaos (Oct 12, 2009)

You may find you have plank walls.

Figure what part of the walls your unit ( :lol: ) will cover 
and feel free to use this space to knock holes to find studs, fish wires, or stash crack.


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## Gooserider (Oct 12, 2009)

Note that if the bar scene doesn't work for you, I've also heard that personal adds can be quite effective.... ;-P 

Gooserider


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## LLigetfa (Oct 12, 2009)

FratFart said:
			
		

> Gooserider said:
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LOL

Reminds me of the old "Fly United" poster.


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## WoodMann (Oct 12, 2009)

Thanks Goose, I'll keep that in mind. About stashing the crack, won't the dog still be able to find it.............


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## woodsman23 (Oct 12, 2009)

simply do a search and type in "woodsman"  i am a stud in my own mind...


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## kenny chaos (Oct 12, 2009)

WoodMann said:
			
		

> . About stashing the crack, won't the dog still be able to find it.............



You have a dog that smokes crack?
Is he looking for a stud too? :kiss:


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## WoodMann (Oct 14, 2009)

Cute kenny. I was asking in the situation when they do a raid on the house for drugs, don't they bring a dope sniffing dog with'em..............


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## kenny chaos (Oct 14, 2009)

WoodMann said:
			
		

> Cute kenny. I was asking in the situation when they do a raid on the house for drugs, don't they bring a dope sniffing dog with'em..............



They brought three to my house and wondered why they found no crack.
(Why would I save them any?)


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## Gooserider (Oct 14, 2009)

I have heard (but not verified by testing) that drug dogs can be discouraged by mixing cayenne pepper with the crack...  Or even leaving out the crack...

Gooserider


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## WoodMann (Oct 14, 2009)

OK- thanks for all the colorful suggestions. Now- what do I build a cabinet out of? And what would I coat/ paint it with? I've taken measurements and have an idea that I'd like the top and sides to be 1" thisck wood and the shelves within to be 1/2".............................


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## Delta-T (Oct 14, 2009)

I imagine your wood and finish choices would be "personal preference". I've built some speaker enclosures and stuff out of MDF, but its heavy. I'm also partial to covering everything with remnant shag carpet circa 1973 (something with paislies, or that bright fire orange color). Friend of mine built a corner lamp stand and painted it with some type of faux stone paint. Very cool texture.


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## woodsman23 (Oct 14, 2009)

Wood shelves  need to be at least 5/8" thick to prevent them from bowing. 3/4 is better. I would build it from sanded birch plywood 3/4" and stain it a nice cherry. With some nice maple moldings.


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## Gooserider (Oct 14, 2009)

Agreed, especially with a 36" span - I would say at least 3/4" and preferably with some sort of reinforcing strip underneath....

Gooserider


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## kenny chaos (Oct 14, 2009)

A cabinet that size can be secured to the wall by a million different types of fasteners, no stud necesary.


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## kenny chaos (Oct 14, 2009)

I have a 52" long shelf made out of 1/4" but it's only 10" deep and supported on all edges.
P.S. It's white.


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## WoodMann (Oct 15, 2009)

Yeah- I'm thinkin' to go white so it blends with the wall. Wow- never thought of a shelf _flexing_. The amp at the bottome would be the heaviest of the items, guess I'll put another foot down there in the middle, thanks guys, alotta stuff I didn't know..................


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## Gooserider (Oct 17, 2009)

If I was building something like that, I'd use 3/4" plywood for the body and shelves - If staining, I'd use birch or other fancy material, but for painted shelves I'd just use A/B fir plywood and save a couple bucks a sheet.  Use 1/4" luan for the back, and put some strips of 1x2 on the front edges to both stiffen things up and hide the cut edges of the plywood.  Possibly I would add one or two narrower strips to the underside of the shelves in the back and / or as cleats to give them some added support.

Given that you are going to be putting electronics stuff on the shelves, pay extra attention to allowing for adequate ventilation, and also provide the holes needed to allow for passing cabling between all the components.  I would put at least two vertical sets of holes in, one on each side so that you can run your AC wiring on one side and your signal cables on the other.  (AC and signal wiring should be kept separated as much as possible to avoid interference.)

Gooserider


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## WoodMann (Oct 17, 2009)

Thanks, goose. The concern for heat dissipation for the electronics was taken into consideration with making the bottom shelf taller space for the amp so heat could dissipate. Here's a pic of the side(s) I'm thinking of making. For strength I've thought to so with 2x6, a good grade of wood or course..................


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## Gooserider (Oct 18, 2009)

That would certainly work, but it is a bit overkill - we are talking shelves, not a house...  :cheese:   I think using 2x? stock would end up looking disproportionately heavy.

3/4" plywood on the sides would give plenty of strength, and facing it with 1x2 or similar stock would give a substantial look to the face as well as covering the plywood edges.  Another alternative might be to use a ladder like structure as you are suggesting, but in a more appropriate size, like 1x3 or 1x4.  Plywood sides and a luan back also has the advantage of giving a lot of resistance to diagonal racking - something that would require a bit more attention to if using boards for the structure.  Depending on the length of the unit, you could even make the entire thing with one sheet of 3/4" - especially if you can make it a nominal 16" wide instead of 18" (so as to be able to get three shelf widths out of the sheet) If you did 16" wide plywood with 2x2 edging strips, you would still end up with shelves that were very close to 18" deep...

Gooserider


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## kenny chaos (Oct 18, 2009)

Ever hear the term 5/4 (five quarter)?


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## Gooserider (Oct 18, 2009)

kenny chaos said:
			
		

> Ever hear the term 5/4 (five quarter)?



In some contexts, but I'm sure you're anxious to explain what YOU mean by it... %-P 

Gooserider


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## kenny chaos (Oct 18, 2009)

Gooserider said:
			
		

> kenny chaos said:
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I dun mean anything by it.  It was just an idea.
No 2x look yet substantial.


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## Gooserider (Oct 18, 2009)

True on the look, but any time I've seen people using the 5/4ths terminology, they've mostly been talking about hardwoods like oak, maple, etc..  Given that the OP was talking about making a painted peice as opposed to stained, I didn't see any real advantage to going to the more expensive hardwoods, instead of sticking with your basic fir or pine...  

If the OP had been talking about doing a stained finish, I would have suggested something more on the order of birch plywood with oak or similar trim, or possibly using all hardwood boards, which the clear finish would have justified.

Gooserider


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## kenny chaos (Oct 18, 2009)

Gooserider said:
			
		

> True on the look, but any time I've seen people using the 5/4ths terminology, they've mostly been talking about hardwoods like oak, maple, etc..  Given that the OP was talking about making a painted peice as opposed to stained, I didn't see any real advantage to going to the more expensive hardwoods, instead of sticking with your basic fir or pine...
> 
> If the OP had been talking about doing a stained finish, I would have suggested something more on the order of birch plywood with oak or similar trim, or possibly using all hardwood boards, which the clear finish would have justified.
> 
> Gooserider




I thought I read, "what would I coat/ paint it with" and figured he was open to staining.
Nevermind. :sick:


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## lobsta1 (Oct 19, 2009)

As far as carrying the weight, you can check out this site.
Al

http://www.woodbin.com/calcs/sagulator.htm


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## Gooserider (Oct 19, 2009)

lobsta1 said:
			
		

> As far as carrying the weight, you can check out this site.
> Al
> 
> http://www.woodbin.com/calcs/sagulator.htm



VERY NICE TOOL  That is a good reference pointer for certain....
Gooserider


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## WoodMann (Oct 19, 2009)

Thanks guys, and thanks for a link to that sagulator. Good call on the _heavy_ look I'd be ending up with, Goose; that's exactly what I don't want- focus being drawn to the cabinet.  Thinking back thru the daysand remembering that a 3/4" of 4x8 plywood for a ramp for the 3- wheeler was more than adequate I wonder now if 1/2" would infact be suficient. I see you're point goose for considerint 16" rather than 18" shelves, and no problems with that it was just the ultimate width of the topmost shelf as well as housing the TV  up there I'd also mybe like another couple knick knacks ans such. 
 With that, what's luan? Guess I could Goggle that. Also, this is grea- if I could do the sides out of ont peice, hopefully 1/2" ply that would free me up to get a bit more creative with vent holes for the electronics rather than the bland ladder look................


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## Gooserider (Oct 19, 2009)

Luan is a fairly low grade plywood that is typically about 3 ply, 1/4" thick...  Usually sells for very little money, and has a nice but bland finish that can be stained or painted.  It's usually used to give smooth surfaces, but doesn't have a lot of strength itself...  Common applications include the bottoms of furniture drawers, the backs of shelves, cabinets, and other "box like" furniture carcasses and underlayment for some sorts of flooring...  It doesn't have real good load bearing ability, but it is good on the back of a peice of furniture to prevent diagonal racking.

As to the thickness of stuff - there is a balance, going to thin can look problematic even if it is "structurally sound"  - I think the optimal range to the eye is in the 3/4 - 1" range...  More or less just doesn't look right....

The other thing that might be worth looking at is what the options are in pre-fab - not as satisfying as making it yourself, but what I've observed is that often times, unless you want something unusual in the way of size, color or whatever, the folks at IKEA and so forth can do a pre-fab for nearly as good a cost as doing it yourself...

Gooserider


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## WoodMann (Oct 19, 2009)

Gooserider said:
			
		

> ......... what I've observed is that often times, unless you want something unusual in the way of size, color or whatever, the folks at IKEA and so forth can do a pre-fab for nearly as good a cost as doing it yourself...  Gooserider




Ya mean have them cobble something together to your specs? Sounds cool, but I don't totally know what I want yet. I've ben thinking of doing a mock up with some cardboard. Hey, the cat just ate my waffle asw I was typing...............


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## WoodMann (Oct 19, 2009)

Here's what I was thinking about geting a bit creative on the sides. Was thinking I could fortify the structure via a 2x4 front and back at the bottom and another one at the top rear....


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## Gooserider (Oct 19, 2009)

WoodMann said:
			
		

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No, I wasn't talking about having IKEA make something for you, rather just to look at what they have in the way of stock items to see if something works - I haven't seen anything all that unusual in your specs, and 36" W x 36" H x 16-18" deep is a pretty standard size...  

I haven't tried it, but I've heard cats are fairly good when deep fried and served w/ ketchup... At least it will keep it from bothering your waffle again   

As to the idea with the hole, that might work, though I'd still put some holes in the shelves for wiring passages.  That way the wires don't show - if you just had the wires looped around the front or sides of the shelves it would look kind of tacky.  Wouldn't need all that much reinforcing either, as long as you keep the size of the opening reasonable and allow at least a couple inches of "meat" front and back...  One of the advantages of using sheet materials is that they offer tremendous resistance to diagonal "racking" forces, as they in effect act like an infinite number of diagonal cross braces.  3/4" ply can more than handle the vertical load and putting a back on the carcasse prevents it from going side to side, while the depth of the panel keeps it stable fore and aft...

Gooserider


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## kenny chaos (Oct 19, 2009)

Walmart.


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## WoodMann (Oct 21, 2009)

Hmm- I've been negating the thought of addressing putting a back on the shelf. But seeing now how it would contribute significantly to the structureal rigitdity. Yeah- as for running wires I guess I could leave a corner hacked out outta the rear of the shelves. But yeh- I'm gonna checkout wallyworld, armed with a tap measure......................


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## Gooserider (Oct 21, 2009)

WoodMann said:
			
		

> Hmm- I've been negating the thought of addressing putting a back on the shelf. But seeing now how it would contribute significantly to the structureal rigitdity. Yeah- as for running wires I guess I could leave a corner hacked out outta the rear of the shelves. But yeh- I'm gonna checkout wallyworld, armed with a tap measure......................



As I mentioned earlier, cut out both corners, or drill TWO large holes (possibly less obvious if you can hide the holes and wires behind the equipment) - AC and signal wires shouldn't be run next to each other, so you should have one passage for power and one for signals...

Gooserider


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## WoodMann (Oct 21, 2009)

Gotcha- thanks again, Goose...............


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## pybyr (Oct 21, 2009)

Franks said:
			
		

> I still use the old knock on the wall trick.  Hasnt failed me yet...that I know of



Along with the knock on the wall trick, get a small cheap but strong magnet (rip apart a cheap radio's speaker or a hard drive) and put it on a string about a foot long.  

When you think you have found the stud by the knock on the wall trick, get out the aforementioned magnetic pendulum, and move it up and down the vertical axis of the suspected stud, and then also move it side to side- just slightly off the surface of the wall.  

It should be attracted quite noticeably to the sheetrock nails or screws, thus giving you a closer read than the knock on the wall method by itself.

Cheap studfinders give poor/ erratic readings and crap out in a few years.


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## WoodMann (Oct 26, 2009)

Thanks, pybyr- I'll confirm my stud findings with the hanging magnet...........


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