# Water heater prices??  Off the shelf or plumber prices?



## JAMIE (Feb 19, 2009)

I am looking to replace my water heater,  but I'm concerned about which to buy.  An aquaintance contractor tells me he uses Bradford-White products exclusively.  I reside in the upper midwest, where Menards, Lowes, and Home Depot are the prominent home centers.  Specifically, Menards carries the Richmond line of water heaters which is manufactured by Rheem, a highly rated company.  My question is, do I need to spend $200-$300 more for a contractor line versus a product that I can purchase myself at the home center.  Secondly,  I am undecided on whether to go with a powervented model or an atmospheric.  I do have an atmosperic now, but wonder if the powervent would be a noticeable energy saver.  Any knowledge and input would be appreciated.


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## jebatty (Feb 19, 2009)

Check out Consumer Reports and Epinions for general and brand-specific info. Consider a tankless water heater, as they can be more efficient in supplying hot water, but be aware that an "endless" supply of hot water may mean some family members take "endless" showers and use more hot water than before, erasing all possible savings.


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## struggle (Feb 19, 2009)

I bought one from Menard's a  Richmond and I would not buy one again. While it is around 10 years old now the thing has worked fine but the insulation value of it I think sucks. I could put my hand on the top of it and it was always quite warm leading me to believe it is not very well insulated. 

I will buy a much higher efficient model when this one goes bad that most likely would not be available at a home center. Just not sure what it will be though.


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## KarlP (Feb 19, 2009)

JAMIE said:
			
		

> I am looking to replace my water heater,  but I'm concerned about which to buy.  An aquaintance contractor tells me he uses Bradford-White products exclusively.  I reside in the upper midwest, where Menards, Lowes, and Home Depot are the prominent home centers.  Specifically, Menards carries the Richmond line of water heaters which is manufactured by Rheem, a highly rated company.  My question is, do I need to spend $200-$300 more for a contractor line versus a product that I can purchase myself at the home center.  Secondly,  I am undecided on whether to go with a powervented model or an atmospheric.  I do have an atmosperic now, but wonder if the powervent would be a noticeable energy saver.  Any knowledge and input would be appreciated.



IMO, get the thickest insulation and longest warranty.  I don't believe the contractor models are any better, just more markup.

Do a comparison of energy efficiency of the units you are considering.  When I looked a few years ago the efficency difference between 1" of foam and 2" of foam insulation was MUCH greater than the difference between atmospheric and powervented.  The extra inch of foam cost $35, while the powervent option cost a bundle.  Keep in mind that most of the atmospheric ones work when the power if off, so if you have town water you can still take a hot shower during an extended power outage.


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## ChipTam (Feb 19, 2009)

In the Detroit area, A.O. Smith seems to be the most common brand name.  You don't mention if you'll be installing it yourself or you'll have a plumber do it.  That can affect the cost quite a bit.  We replaced our's last week and had a plumber do it.  I'm glad we had him do it.  There was some soldering involved and a minor change in the venting.  Plus the old one is still very heavy even after most of the water is removed.  I was a bit shocked by the price ($800 for a 40 gallon tank) but we called around and prices ranged from $760 to $860 installed.  Our neighbor bought a water heater from Home Depot and had their service people install it.  From what I understand, that did not go well and he would not recommend the service from big box stores.

ChipTam


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## JAMIE (Feb 19, 2009)

Thanks for the feedback.  After further research and more number crunching, I've decided to stay with an atmospheric unit.  I did have to put a chimney liner in two years ago when I retired my old fuel oil burner that shared the chimney with the water heater.  So that expense, ($300) would be wasted by changing to a powervented model that really is not significantly more economical.  That being said, I've compared specs on the Richmond and Bradford-White units.  The EFs, annual costs estimates,  and  first hour ratings are nearly identical.  Richmond does not declare their insulation thickness, (BW is 1")  With similar energy factors,  I assume Richmond is as well.  Anyway, Menards sale price is $499 for a 50gal. 12yr. Richmond which I will be installing myself.  I'm waiting for quote on the BW from a contractor friend's out the door price.  Right now, I'm leaning towards Menards, even more so if his price is $100-$200 more. Still, I'm a little concerned about the quallity issue.  I will also address the additional cost of increased insulation models with the BW line.  Richmond does not give me that option. Any additional knowledge or feedback is appreciated, and I will report back with contractor prices.


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## gpcollen1 (Feb 19, 2009)

I got my electric HWH at Sears or Lowes - cannot remember now.  They make them for garages and stuff with 3" of foam inside the jacket.  Pretty simple stuff.


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## Later (Feb 20, 2009)

Just put in a Bradford White power vent NG heater. Paid for the install - when it needs replacement I'd do it myself. Looked at instant/on demand heaters but wasn't too impressed with the $$$. The powervent  heater can be connected to a timer if I don't want to heat 24/7


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## JAMIE (Feb 20, 2009)

Thanks  CTwoodburner.  You had me confused for a second.  I was discussing gas water heaters which clearly are not as simple as electric.  I've yet to see any gas water heater in the residential market with more than 2" of insulation.


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## jebatty (Feb 20, 2009)

You should be able to add our own insulation around the sides, but not the top or bottom, of a gas water heater. Our water heater is electric, so we could also insulate the bottom and top. We just used 6" fiberglass wall batts, and then wrapped the foil bubble wrap insulation around that for appearance + more insulation.

One thing that is quite important is installing heat traps on both the cold water supply and the hot supply. Water heaters can thermo-siphon a lot of their heated water into the water lines, and the heat traps will stop that.


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## peakbagger (Feb 20, 2009)

The big secret to keeping hot water heaters from lasting a long time is the replace the internal anode as needed. Dependent upon how corrosive your water is, the anode may require replacement every few years or may last a long time. The anode bascially rots away instead of other metallic parts of the tank. Once the anode goes, corrosion will usually find a way to get to the underlying metal no matter what the coating is. 

Its not real difficult to replace, the biggest challenge is finding someone who stocks the anodes. Usually, you have to turn off the water, drain the tank down a bit and unscrew the anode plug on top of the tank. If you have the headroom, pull it straight out, otherwise pull it out as far as you can and cut the top section and keep pulling. When you buy the replacement, they usually have two types, a bendable one and a straight one.


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## d.n.f. (Feb 20, 2009)

My plumber friend says to drain a gallon or so from the bottom drain every month to clear sediment.  Helps extend life.  Could be an old plumber's wives tail though.

I will ask him this quality question but I kinda am guessing the answer.  I buy off of him cause he doesn't charge me the 10% markup.


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## Dune (Feb 20, 2009)

My brother is a master plumber and gasfitter. I aprenticed for him for many years, even though I am not licensed, I get his prices at the supply house, since I charge it on his account, then pay him back. When I replaced my electric hot water heater last summer, I checked prices EVERYWHERE, and got the best deal at Sears.


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## Gooserider (Feb 23, 2009)

d.n.f. said:
			
		

> My plumber friend says to drain a gallon or so from the bottom drain every month to clear sediment.  Helps extend life.  Could be an old plumber's wives tail though.
> 
> I will ask him this quality question but I kinda am guessing the answer.  I buy off of him cause he doesn't charge me the 10% markup.



I've heard mixed bag responses on the drain question...  Getting rid of the sediment isn't a bad idea, but some people report that you can get sediment stuck in the valve seat leading to leaks...  I do know that our plumber is VERY emphatic that it is a bad idea to periodically trip the TPR valve for this reason...  He says those valves are tested umpteen ways, and don't need testing, but he's replaced a lot of them where people tested and ended up with a slow leaker...

As to finding the replacement anodes, you can get them online...

Gooserider


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## wingsfan (Feb 23, 2009)

The plumber put a Bradford-White in our home when it was built. I have had no problems with it.


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## Hogwildz (Feb 23, 2009)

This place flooded the weekend after I bought it and was starting to move in.
Had 5' of water in the basement if not more. Yeap the water heater was toast.
Got a 50 gallon Whirlpool at Lowes, it was the last one they had and had a dent in the lower pan casing.
Got it for 25% off Its supposedly a lifetime warranty, but if it dies, I'll just buy another.
Find yourself a scratch/dent, comes with same warranty, with discounted price.To the advise of timing it to be cooler than heat back up.
I have not done a study, nor am I an engineer, but seems to me if you time it to not heat the water for some hours of the day, your going to now use the energy to warm it back up form cold to get it to temp again, so I see no real savings there. Insulate the shat out of it and I bet that works better.


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