# Harman manual vs auto mode - pellet usage



## MikeNH (Jan 21, 2013)

I've been using my stove in Room Temp Auto mode since we got it, but I'm experimenting (my daughters call it "tinkering" and my wife calls it "screwing with stuff" but that doesn't matter right now).  I noticed that this stove puts off some good radiant heat.  I was curious - for those of you who run your Harman in manual mode - does it use an abundance of pellets compared to auto mode?  Just wondering if anyone may have already figured out a rough idea.  I know this is probably subjective and the best way to find out is to try it, but I figured I'd ask.

With the cold snap coming over the next 5 days in New England, I thought I'd give manual mode a try, and let the stove stay warm and produce radiant heat between cycles.

Thanks!


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## silverfox103 (Jan 21, 2013)

This is my 5th season of my Harman P68.  At this time of year, I run Room Temp, Manual.  I would say most Harman users do the same thing.  Late Spring or early Fall, is when I would run it on automatic.  Also set your feed rate to atleast 4.

In all honesty, I doubt whether it uses any more pellets.

Tom C.


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## CT Pellet (Jan 21, 2013)

I have owned my Harman for seven years now. First season, I burned the stove on room temp. But I have run it on stove temp ever since and I will never go back. I am also a strong advocate for my customers doing the same thing. You see, when your stove is running nice and hot, it is burning as clean as Lance Armst....er....a whistle. (Damn....Can't use that expression anymore) But when the stove is constantly shutting down and starting up, it is not a nice long constant clean burn. This means more smoke, ash and creosote build up on the ESP as well as in the pipe, and your electric bill will jump from the constant re-starting because that ignitor is direct 110. Plus in cold weather, prolonged fluctuations of the inside temps as well. This advice that I give is based on my own opinion which is fueled by real-life experience. When I offer it to customers, some decide they like the "other way" better, but overwhelmingly, most people really dig it, and I end up looking like a frigging genius to them. Now, I know that the experts here on the forum outnumber me in opinion, and you are about to hear them tell you how dumb I am for saying this. But give it a try and see...you will not use more pellets, it will just be a more steady, clean burn.  Now, I'm gunna go duck for cover...many Harman owners about to stone me here....Help!


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## glenc0322 (Jan 21, 2013)

I run my stove in Stove temp auto.  I have the feed rate at 4  ant the stove and fan on low and a bag of pellets last me 22 hrs its 30 degrees out and my house is in the 70's this works for me I have not used room temp on the stove and I don't have a thermostat hooked up


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## gbreda (Jan 21, 2013)

YUP, stove temp auto. Let her burn and give a constant heat. My pellet usage fluctuates directly with the outside temps, just as it should.


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## subsailor (Jan 21, 2013)

I go both ways. When temps are in the high 20's and above. I run in room/manual. Low 20's and lower I'm in stove temp. Much more even heat. I liken it to a forced hot air furnace that never shuts off. On cloudy, windy or snowy days I usually run in stove mode no matter what the temp.


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## tsmith (Jan 21, 2013)

Room temp manual will not shut down when room reaches temp, instead it will go to maint. burn until it needs to ramp up again. This will keep the temperature within 1 degree of what you have it set for. This will keep you from overshooting or undershooting the temp on days when the temp outside fluctuates.


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## DOLLARBILL (Jan 21, 2013)

OK so CT and SubSailor when you guys run in Stove temp what are the other setting s if I may ask ?


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## MikeNH (Jan 21, 2013)

DOLLARBILL said:


> OK so CT and SubSailor when you guys run in Stove temp what are the other setting s if I may ask ?


 
That was my next question as well, just to get an idea.


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## fmsm (Jan 21, 2013)

when it's cold I prefer room manual. It doesn't really use more pellets for me.


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## tsmith (Jan 21, 2013)

I had mine set to room temp manual with temp set at 72. It maintained 72 degrees and ramped up and down as needed, mostly burning low. I have since changed it to stove temp auto setting number 2. It is doing the same thing as room temp manual, burning mostly on low burn. Maintaining 72 degrees. So my question is what's the difference really? At least in room temp manual if the outside temps change, the stove will maintain my set temp within 1 degree, in stove temp, it could either overshoot my temp, wasting pellets, or possibly not heat enough. Is my thinking wrong here?


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## MikeNH (Jan 21, 2013)

Thanks guys for all of your answers.  Sounds as though whether I choose room temp manual or stove temp auto, I'm not going to use much more (if any) pellets than I am with room temp auto.  I'm sure it will save some wear and tear on the ignitor and probably have a positive effect on the electric bill, which is always a good thing.  I'll experiment with both modes and see which works better for us.


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## will711 (Jan 21, 2013)

Stove Temp guy. Feed rate  4  blower on as low as it will go , vary the temp setting from 1.5 [ warm days] to  4           [ cold days 20 and less] I avg. 24 to 30 hrs / 40 lb bag nice toasty house in the 70's . This works for me 3rd year now. 

Tried room temp thing once didn't like it BIG flames, low flames ,no flames .

Bottom line is experiment see what works best for You .  I really  don't think  this is a One Size fits all deal to many variables.


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## P38X2 (Jan 21, 2013)

I use room temp manual. I don't use Auto because...wait for it...its a P38  There's no doubt in my mind my houses heat loss is greater than my stove at idle, so there's no need for it to cycle. I couldn't care less about what temp the stove is at. My concern is the room temp.

I understand it works for some, (btw, funny post, CT Pellet) but what happens on day one when it's 30 outside and to achieve 70 inside you use a stove temp of 3. Now, day two is 10 below. You gotta make a stove adjustment right? Even if you had a chart showing outside temps and their corresponding stove settings, there's still an element of guessing and a large variable in that the outside temp is generally always changing to one extent or another. In room mode, its simply based on interior temps, which is what we're all concerned with, right? Assuming you find a good spot for the temp probe, you're golden. If it's 0 outside, you're all set. If it's 30 outside but sunny and you have a lot of solar gain, you're all set.

As far as pellet usage goes, I find it more efficient. The only time I can see it being less efficient is heating a larger space with multi floors and a large distance between the stove and the areas requiring heat. If the temp differential is 10 degrees, you're likely gonna overheat the first floor before the return air from the second floor satisfies the room temp setting on the stove.

I've tried room mode and always have issues. Maybe in a small space I can see it working...idk. Not to jack the thread but I wouldn't mind hearing peoples logic behind why stove temp works for them. 

I know there's more science behind it and I'm not a scientist. This topic has been discussed before and I enjoy reading everyones "expert" opinion. Always makes for a good battle and all in fun. 

Kinda like Miller Lite....Great taste!....Less filling!
Of course neither is right but that doesn't change the fact it's Miller time


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## MikeNH (Jan 21, 2013)

P38X2 said:


> Not to jack the thread but I wouldn't mind hearing peoples logic behind why stove temp works for them.


 
I don't have a problem with that.  Would be some good information sharing.


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## P38X2 (Jan 21, 2013)

I also hear "stop screwing around with that thing" lol. They don't get it


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## john193 (Jan 21, 2013)

When I had my xxv I exclusively ran it on room temp. The stove would ramp up or down as needed and hardly turned off. If you want to make sure it doesn't turn off in room temp, flip the igniter switch to manual. In my experience heating a 1500 sq ft house with the xxv I got my most efficient pellet use in room temp mode. The few times I did try stove temp, the stove always ate more. My dealer also confirmed that the most frugal method is room temp.


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## Mr. Spock (Jan 21, 2013)

I use room temp because it's not that cold and the house stays a constant temp. Heating a 1000 sq/ft. Stove temp makes the house volcanic. Better half wanted the XXV over my preference for something smaller. Eh what ya gona do...put it in  room auto mode and forget about it.


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## subsailor (Jan 21, 2013)

DOLLARBILL said:


> OK so CT and SubSailor when you guys run in Stove temp what are the other setting s if I may ask ?


 
I'm not sure what other settings you refer to as there isn't much to set. Feed rate I always leave on 4, heat setting anywhere from 2 to 4 depending on the outside temp. I have a thermometer on the side of the stove. When it's reads above 325 I run the blower on max, otherwise the dial ponts straight down, which is pretty close to max.


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## subsailor (Jan 21, 2013)

tsmith said:


> I had mine set to room temp manual with temp set at 72. It maintained 72 degrees and ramped up and down as needed, mostly burning low. I have since changed it to stove temp auto setting number 2. It is doing the same thing as room temp manual, burning mostly on low burn. Maintaining 72 degrees. So my question is what's the difference really? At least in room temp manual if the outside temps change, the stove will maintain my set temp within 1 degree, in stove temp, it could either overshoot my temp, wasting pellets, or possibly not heat enough. Is my thinking wrong here?


 
In stove temp, the stove doesn't care what your room temp is. It's going to maintain the same heat output based on the what the ESP is telling it. If the ouside temp drops 20 degrees, your room temp will change accordingly, but the stove won't..

As for my logic for running this way, when outside temps get into the lower 20's, room temp doesn't maintain temp too well with my layout. Stove temp works much better.


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## Northwoodneil (Jan 21, 2013)

Room temp auto, it's "almost" always cold enough here to keep running.  The "almost" part comes in when the wind dies down and the sun gets a little more power as spring gets nearer. On stove temp I get bigger temp swings upstairs when the sun shines. As of right now -4 and the PC45 is running about 3/4 throttle, tonight, -15 and it will still be 74 upstairs with no or very little oil help. Pushing 3 ton but the cost of that wouldn't have filled the tank once (normally I'd be 3/4 the way through my second fill). Me and my check book love this Harman.  The stove can rest a little tomorrow gonna' get all the way up to 6 above.


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## will711 (Jan 21, 2013)

P38X2 said:


> Kinda like Miller Lite....Great taste!....Less filling! Of course neither is right but that doesn't change the fact it's Miller time


 
This works for me    I'm warm, I have beer and I'm not going to over think this  I only have 2 brain cells left and they are fight'in for dominance


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## Mr. Spock (Jan 21, 2013)

Lets hope the one that's left likes beer!


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## will711 (Jan 21, 2013)

Mr. Spock said:


> Lets hope the one that's left likes beer!


 
It's a fixed fight  BEER wins


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## Hoot23 (Jan 21, 2013)

Always room temp manual. Doesn't seem to burn more pellets. When it's cold out she eats a bag and a half every 24 hours. Manual works better for me. Keeps the house at an even temp all day and all night.


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## boosted3g (Jan 21, 2013)

It dont matter what my p61 is set to.  Its always way too freakin hot in my house.  As we speak 86 downstairs and 78 upstairs.  Harmans on idle.


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## subsailor (Jan 21, 2013)

boosted3g said:


> It dont matter what my p61 is set to. Its always way too freakin hot in my house. As we speak 86 downstairs and 78 upstairs. Harmans on idle.


 
I like it warm, 73-74, but 86?


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## P38X2 (Jan 21, 2013)

boosted3g said:


> It dont matter what my p61 is set to.  Its always way too freakin hot in my house.  As we speak 86 downstairs and 78 upstairs.  Harmans on idle.



Holy way too hot! Good thing you got the hopper extension. Wouldn't wanna have to add pellets more than every month or so


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## tsmith (Jan 21, 2013)

Hoot23 said:


> Always room temp manual. Doesn't seem to burn more pellets. When it's cold out she eats a bag and a half every 24 hours. Manual works better for me. Keeps the house at an even temp all day and all night.


X2


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## glenc0322 (Jan 21, 2013)

will711 said:


> Stove Temp guy. Feed rate 4 blower on as low as it will go , vary the temp setting from 1.5 [ warm days] to 4 [ cold days 20 and less] I avg. 24 to 30 hrs / 40 lb bag nice toasty house in the 70's . This works for me 3rd year now.
> 
> Tried room temp thing once didn't like it BIG flames, low flames ,no flames .
> 
> Bottom line is experiment see what works best for You . I really don't think this is a One Size fits all deal to many variables.


 
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Exactly what i do


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## Harman Lover 007 (Jan 22, 2013)

CT Pellet said:


> Now, I know that the experts here on the forum outnumber me in opinion, and you are about to hear them tell you how dumb I am for saying this. But give it a try and see...you will not use more pellets, it will just be a more steady, clean burn. Now, I'm gunna go duck for cover...many Harman owners about to stone me here....Help!


 
You are right....I don't agree but it probably won't make any difference to you what I think. I've had 2 Harmans for 17 years. I've done it all. RT/auto uses less pellets, hands down. RT/Auto is a more uniform even heat.


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## zrtmatos (Jan 22, 2013)

tsmith said:


> X2


 
Room temp manual seems to be working well for me. Other settings; feedrate @ about 4.5; fan @ midline and temp at about 72-75. Trying to save on the ignitor and electric bill. I like the occational build up of flames from low to high in the window. The temp in the room stays between 72-75 in our lower level family room. And I don't want to be adjusting the controls based on outside temp and windy conditions every other day.


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## Birdie Golf (Jan 23, 2013)

i use stove temp feed rate set @ 4, i use the stove as my main heat source to heat 2200 sq ft, and i think stove mode gives me constant even heat, ive had the stove 4 years now and havent turned on the electric heat since, not broke why fix it right


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## lbcynya (Jan 23, 2013)

Birdie Golf said:


> i use stove temp feed rate set @ 4, i use the stove as my main heat source to heat 2200 sq ft, and i think stove mode gives me constant even heat, ive had the stove 4 years now and havent turned on the electric heat since, not broke why fix it right


 
Correct, if it ain't broke...however, you could be reducing overall comfort and using more pellets.  Room temp is worth giving a try. 

Stove temp is constant or static heat based on ESP temp only, no provisions are made for room temp aside from the actual heat loss of the stove due based on ambient temperature.  In this mode, you are only taking advantage of HALF of the stoves capabilities - the ESP. 

Your house heat needs are dynamic...  Wind, sun, temperature, time of day etc. all play into how your house loses heat and your heat demands change several times per day.  This will lead to overheating or under-heating based on the actual heat loss.  This could average out over a day tricking you into thinking your pellet usage is low(er), but comfort (consistent temperatures) will be reduced. 

Getting room temp dialed in will allow you to use the dial to accurately turn up or turn down the heat based on your needs without temperature swings from the above mentioned influences and accurately match your dynamic heat loss with dynamic heat control.  This is taking advantage of all the design features Harman included and what you paid for!  Enjoy.


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## SteveB (Jan 23, 2013)

Room temp auto most of the time and doesn't burn any more than a bag a day. In this weather though, I've been a little paranoid (mostly unfounded fear) that it might not restart during the night or when we're at work so I switched to R/T manual. Using a little more pellets but it is quite a bit colder outside and its up off idle a lot more right now. Stayin' nice and warm though! 

Edit: And still saving tons of money over heating this big,old farmhouse with dino juice!


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## MikeNH (Jan 24, 2013)

I've been on RT Manual this week, and it's working well for us during this cold snap.  I noticed too that the house thermostat on the other side of the living room (the one PREVIOUSLY used for turning on the oil, but is now just a thermometer until A/C season) doesn't swing as much as it did when we were on RT auto.  Since the stove is always putting out radiant heat, the dog - who always seeks out the warmest spot she can find - has made her new home about two feet in front of the stove.  Thanks for all your replies and discussion.  This forum is a great place for info sharing.

Temps in my neck of the woods don't start moderating until midweek next week.  I should be finding mice-icles in the basement any day now.


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## shtrdave (Jan 24, 2013)

I do RT/Auto because if I do RT/Man. it seems the temp drops and the heat is not as even. I have not tried stove temp yet.


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