# Appalachian 52 BAY Wood Stove Insert



## mellow

Pulled the trigger and sent my check to Servicesales for my new Appalachian 52 BAY.  I hope to get it before we run out of cold weather to give it a try.  Will update this thread on how the install goes and my thoughts on the insert.

Not to many reviews out there for this insert so I am flying blind and hope it does well.


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## BrotherBart

Just couldn't stay away from a cat huh?

Should be a good heater.


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## mellow

Yea,  guess you can say I have had my tubes tied 

Once you go CAT you don't go back.


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## BrotherBart

Have you priced the replacement proprietary refractory lining in the 52 Bay? I never have seen a source or price for it.


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## mellow

You had me scared for a second there.  I had to go reread the manual.  From the looks of the manual Refractory liner is pointing to the firebricks, and that would match what servicesales show's as the replacement parts for the stove.

http://www.servicesales.com/appalachian-stove-parts-c-17.html


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## BrotherBart

Good to hear that. I always thought they had custom refractory panels in them.

Sorry bout that.


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## Stump_Branch

Do the new ones come with a clouter of cats?


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## mellow

Stump_Branch said:
			
		

> Do the new ones come with a clouter of cats?



Googled clouter and still don't get it.


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## Stump_Branch

Sorry, clowder of cats. I type all this from a cell phone. No spell check or fat finger protection.

Clowder is a group of cats, i took liberty of using the feline version. But...does this unit have mulitple cats?


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## mellow

Yes,  2 cats.


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## mellow

With the refractory bricks issue still stuck in my head I had to set out to see if I could find pictures of the inside of the 52 bay to put my mind at ease,  found one and I am happy to see firebricks.


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## wood4free

I noticed on the dealer's site that this stove has either a 6" or 8" flue. However, the manufacturer website states it is 8".


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## mellow

wood4free said:
			
		

> I noticed on the dealer's site that this stove has either a 6" or 8" flue. However, the manufacturer website states it is 8".



Not sure what website you are looking at but it lists 6" or 8" as well.   http://www.appalachianstove.com/wood-stoves-52-bay.php

Appalachian actually custom makes a 8" to 6" reducer for this insert.


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## wood4free

My mistake on the flue size. I was looking at either the 32XLB or the 36BW in error and they both list 8 inch flues. Looking forward to hearing how this insert works out for you. Just wondering why you didn't consider the Blaze King Princess insert? I know it is more expensive.


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## mellow

wood4free said:
			
		

> Just wondering why you didn't consider the Blaze King Princess insert? I know it is more expensive.



_I considered it but after waiting to see if BK would fix the issue with Fireside distributors price jacking their products here on the East Coast I decided against it._  Not trying to start an anti-BK thread with that statement but it is my humble opinion only so please don't turn this thread into a flame war.

I have seen that Appalachian has been in business for quite some time with very little reviews here at hearth.com,  I like to beta test stuff so the price that servicesales gave me on this insert made me pull the trigger to test this stove out,  if I don't like it I can sell it and hopefully not lose much.   

Same thing with my SBI Flame XTD 1.5,  got a good enough deal on it to make it worth beta testing, and now people on here can know more about them.


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## Redlegs

Mellow, that new stove is a good looking unit.  I'll watch for pics of the completed project.


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## mellow

Still waiting on the 8" to 6" adapter to get shipped to servicesales from Appalachian.   Hopefully I will still have some cooler nights to do break in fires and test the stove by the time it gets here.


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## mellow

Update:   Still waiting......    this is an Appalachian issue,  not servicesales.


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## mellow

Update,  still waiting for Appalachian to make the needed adapter.......


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## Heatsource

if they take too much longer give me a ring
we stock them but i doubt they are on our website...


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## begreen

http://www.amazon.com/Stovepipe-Reducer-8-x-6/dp/B000LF5V76


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## mellow

Apparently the appliance connector that Appalachian makes is custom,  they call it an Otis Ring.  It is for reducing from 8" to 6" made especially for flex liners,  it is an all in one connector,  all the other connectors out there would need some sort of jerry rigging to make it fit a flex liner,  hence why I have been waiting to get it.   Part of my review was going to be on the special connector,  I am curious to see what it looks like.

From what I have been told since the heating season is over Appalachian is dragging their feet making more of these special adapters, I personally wonder if it is not a money issue,  I have given them till next week to get one made and shipped out,  I figure a month is more than enough time to either find one from another dealer or make one and ship it out.


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## Heatsource

begreen said:


> http://www.amazon.com/Stovepipe-Reducer-8-x-6/dp/B000LF5V76


 it'd be nice if black pipe would work, but it needs to be stainless


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## BrotherBart

Dang it. Now I have to wait until next season to see how that steel beauty does for you. I have always been curious about them and the High Valley 2500 also. LIkes me them big steel stoves.


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## begreen

A1Stoves.com said:


> it'd be nice if black pipe would work, but it needs to be stainless


 
Why?


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## BrotherBart

begreen said:


> Why?


 
It's an insert. Don't wanna be lifting the liner and dragging the insert out every few years to swap it out. Trust me on that one.


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## begreen

Have a basic steel adapter on our Jotul 602 for well over 20 years and it is still fine. I am not understanding the issue here. Is it more a question of gauge and not whether it is steel or stainless?


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## BrotherBart

Heck I give up. Should have used 24 gauge stove pipe instead of those expensive liners.  But I am here to tell ya that the black pipe elbow I had to use to hook to the liner for that 30 in the fireplace was a year away from trash when I replaced it the next year with stainless.


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## mellow

BrotherBart said:


> Dang it. Now I have to wait until next season to see how that steel beauty does for you. I have always been curious about them and the High Valley 2500 also. LIkes me them big steel stoves.


 
Don't want to derail the topic to much but at first I was going to get the 2500, but it just barely fit in my FP and it was not certified for 6" pipe.   I would have jumped on the 1500 but could not find one at the right price,  I think it would have done fine on 6" being a 2.5 cubic ft stove but all I could get is a verbal conformation on that from Stoll.  

That is how I ended up with the Appalachian,  I think I have only seen 1 member on here with a High Valley and maybe 2 with Appalachians in the past.


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## Heatsource

begreen said:


> Why?


 
code for one
if you cant do an easy visual inspection it must be stainless
do it once, do it right


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## mellow

This is interesting,  A1stoves sells a different 6to8 connector than Appalachian makes,  I question if it meets code.   From my understanding an appliance connector MUST have the band around it to attach to flexible SS liners for a secure fit like the example appliance connecter pictured.





 All the other increaser/reducers I have found on the market do not have the locking band and allow the flex pipe to slip inside,  they are only crimped,  which for rigid pipe is no problem.

Any other adapter for flex pipe will have this locking band.






I can not find a picture of the 6"to8" Otis Ring connector Appalachian makes,  but from talking to them it has the locking band for flexible liners.

Why is there not more of the flexible pipe reducers available?


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## mellow

The stove arrived today!   Yay!   I will install it tonight if everything goes right,  going to be cold on Friday so hopefully I can try it out then.

The Otis Ring Reducer is not what I thought it would be,  it is steel not stainless,  but that is OK,  it is thick and heavy and will not be going anywhere anytime soon.  It is just "different",  have not seen something like this before,   I guess that is one of those fun things testing out a stove.  I will have to drill some holes into it to secure my appliance connector to it.  I will also put some high temp furnace cement in between the connector and the insert.

Side Shot



Top View



Bottom View



Insert 8" exhaust



Reducer on insert


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## Heatsource

mellow said:


> This is interesting, A1stoves sells a different 6to8 connector than Appalachian makes, I question if it meets code. From my understanding an appliance connector MUST have the band around it to attach to flexible SS liners for a secure fit like the example appliance connecter pictured.


\

no code requiring bands... but the heatfab 8-6 we use still requires a flex connector on top of the reducer for a clean connection


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## mellow

Got the XTD out last night,  but cutting the flex pipe for the taller insert is a major pain with dull metal scissors,  getting a pair of real cutters after mangling the pipe and a lot of cussing.  Hope to finish the install this weekend.

I do have my fair share of concerns that the reducer does not attach to the top of the insert,  I am being really careful with how much I cut of the flex pipe so that it will have enough force to push down on the adapter to keep it seated (in theory).

The stove looks nice,  looks well built from the look over I gave it last night.  Not to crazy about the door latch, just a piece of metal welded to the handle,  hope it holds up.


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## mellow

Got the insert installed over the weekend, got a break in fire completed and some initial thoughts on the insert.

Pros:

Thick metal construction, welds look thick and solid
Start up air vent (see picture below, vent circled in red)
Ash pan (see cons for ash pan problem)
Side (bay) view windows
Huge firebox (to me)
Catalytic housing looks well done and hopefully easy to do maintenance on the cats
Fan has 3 speeds (loud, louder, loudest) listed as a pro due to it really moves some air
 
Cons:

Ash pan access hole leaks air, have to keep covered with ash (no gasket on controlling rod)
Fan control has no off switch (have to pull plug while reloading the stove)
Have to drill holes in side to install the surround, no pre-drilled holes like other stoves
Otis Ring 8" to 6" reducer has nothing to attach it to top of stove
Door latch


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## mellow

8" exhaust



Shot of the cats through exhaust



Shot of finished install


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## mellow

Break in fire



Don't recall having this much smoke (fan not on) with my last insert during the first low temp break in fire, it was paint curing not smoke leaking, it was coming out of the top vent and had the paint smell,  went away after 2 low temp break in fires


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## mellow

One of the interesting things on this stove is the start up air vent,  it goes straight into the firebox so you do not have to crack the door open to get the fire started,  worked great for my break in fires.


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## BrotherBart

Great looking heater. Come up with a system for that start-up air. My little Jotul had that and it is real easy to forget to close the thing.


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## etiger2007

Very nice looking stove looks alot better installed than I gave it credit for sitting in the show room.  Cant wait to hear how well it heats vs your old Flame.


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## etiger2007

By the way how big is the fire box?


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## mellow

BrotherBart said:


> Great looking heater. Come up with a system for that start-up air. My little Jotul had that and it is real easy to forget to close the thing.


 
Thanks for the warning,  that is a concern of mine as well.  I am looking to build an electronic temperature system over the summer,  hopefully with a hi-temp warning buzzer.  Would like to tie it into a thermocouple for the cat temperature as well.


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## mellow

etiger2007 said:


> By the way how big is the fire box?


 
2.8 cubic feet is listed on the specs, but it looks bigger than that. I will try to measure usable firebox space.  I should have taken a picture of the firebox before the break in fire,  ohh well.


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## mellow

I wanted to followup with a picture of the door latch,  I am not crazy about it, it is not the easiest to open and shut but I am sure with time it will wear down and smooth out,  which also worries me,  it doesn't look easy to replace if something happens to it, I am guessing the whole handle would have to be replaced.


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## mellow

This is a picture of what the door latches to and the bay window.  As you can see the bay window has no air wash so I am guessing it will look like it currently is, blacked out.


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## mellow

Waiting to hear back answers for these two issues.

Gasket is not fully sealing on the latch side of the door



The ash dump lever is leaking air into the firebox


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## Heatsource

with out bending the latch, or welding on a thicker latch back plate there is really nothing to adjust on the door, if it is fully latched and the gasket is still not tight it might take a re-gasket.
does it pass the dollar bill test on the top/bottom and hinge side?

I've got 3 Appalachian inserts on display, they all had hard to close doors(sloppy for sure!)
i had to take a file to the latch on all of my display models to make them smooth, also added a lil anti seize lube

as for the ashpan, it is gasketed but doesn't have any latches to keep it tight against stove, again, sloppy!
dollar bill test wont work on this door, so try a smoke check and see where the gasket is light/missing etc.

dave


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## mellow

Yea I did the dollar bill test and only the latch side is not sealing,  before I do anything I wanted to test Appalachians customer service and see how long it takes to get an answer.

As for the ash pan the lever that actuates the ash dump door is the culprit for the air leak,  the ash dumps drawer is sealing like it should but for some reason they did not put a gasket on the pull out lever.


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## Heatsource

mellow said:


> Yea I did the dollar bill test and only the latch side is not sealing, before I do anything I wanted to test Appalachians customer service and see how long it takes to get an answer.
> 
> As for the ash pan the lever that actuates the ash dump door is the culprit for the air leak, the ash dumps drawer is sealing like it should but for some reason they did not put a gasket on the pull out lever.


i think you'll end up re-gasketing the door... dry fit it before glueing to be sure of a good fit this time
hopefully your dealer helps you out
i dont see any easy way to gasket the rod. its just a metal rod passing through plate steel.


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## central_scrutinizer

Mellow,

I tried a fix on my floor model and it worked pretty well.  I am sending you two different sizes of gasket material for the door, a dense 1/2" rope and a less-dense 5/8" rope.  See which one works best to fill the gap.  I am also sending about 6 feet of the self-adhesive gasket shown in the pics and some high-temp silicone for the rope gasket.  I hope this works well for you.  If not, holler at me and we will continue to work on a fix.  Thanks!


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## Heavy Metal

Nice looking stove....looks like your getting good service too.


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## etiger2007

I dont mean to sound rude but this is a new stove right?  I my opinion Mellow should never have to replace a gasket yet alone anything for a couple years or work on a fix its B/S and I would be mad as h e double hockey stick.


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## mellow

etiger2007 said:


> I dont mean to sound rude but this is a new stove right? I my opinion Mellow should never have to replace a gasket yet alone anything for a couple years or work on a fix its B/S and I would be mad as h e double hockey stick.


 
It is a new stove,  maybe Appalachian does not get enough feedback about issues like this?  I have seen people come on here with simular issues with gaskets on Jotuls and Woodstock stoves as well so it is a somewhat common problem.  A part of me doubts that changing the gasket will fix the issue but that remains to be seen,  I have all summer to get the stove right for next year.


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## mellow

Ok, got the new gaskets in from Service Sales, will put those in the next chance I get, thanks Matt!

I installed the condar cat probe, I put the cat probe on top of the cats, as it will not fit into one of the cells.  Works great,  I did have to push back the gasket a bit to get it to fit but I did a flashlight test from the back of the cat and did not see any light around where the probe was inserted.  Works great,  cruised at around 1500.

Cat housing removed to get this shot.




Picture of both cats while housing was off


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## mellow

I am still going to switch out for the thicker door gasket that Matt sent me,  but I tried putting some Moly on the door latch and that has helped get the latch go further up and seat the gasket better.


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## begreen

It's curious that there is a just a short horiz wall of firebrick. Most stoves have them set vertically at 9" tall.


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## mellow

begreen said:


> It's curious that there is a just a short horiz wall of firebrick. Most stoves have them set vertically at 9" tall.


 
I thought the same thing,  I guess they figure with the cat you are smoking the wood anyway so keep the bottom hot and it is good to go?


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## begreen

Yes, it looks like it's designed to just keep the coal bed hot .


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## mellow

I had some free time this weekend so I pulled the insert out and tapped and threaded 2 holes to be used to secure down the 8" to 6" adapter,  if Appalachian is reading this you guys need to make the adapter wider so I could drill through it instead of having to use washers to hold down the adapter from the sides.

I do not feel comfortable with using the adapter without having it secured to insert,  if this was a free standing stove with doublewall pipe coming straight down and sitting on top of the adapter that would be fine,  but with the flexible liner coming in at an angle the adapter pulls up and needs to be secured.

Last thing to do is change out to a thicker gasket on the door and I think this stove will be all set for next year.


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## mellow

I also wanted to followup on the ash dump issue,  I installed the gaskets Service Sales sent me using the pictures Matt attached earlier in the thread and it seems to have fixed the issue, it did not look like a blast furnace over the ash dump with the last fire,  I also noticed longer burn times.    I think once I get the door gasket issue fixed I should be at 8-10 hours between reloads easy during freezing winter temps,  for the last fire a week ago I loaded the insert about 3/4 full at 9pm before bed and the cat was still at 450 when I came down the next morning at 8:30am, it got down to the lower 40's that night.


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## coltfever

mellow I have a chance to buy the same stove. I used a Buck 26000 last year and was well pleased with it. My plans were to buy a new Buck 74 this year and I come across an Appalachian 52 Bay insert. I hope to go look at it this weekend. I wish you had more burn use time on yours so you could pass that info to me. That stove sure has the looks of a Buck Stove. I was looking at the online manual and it sure has the same layout as the buck 91 only smaller firebox.


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## clemsonfor

BrotherBart said:


> Dang it. Now I have to wait until next season to see how that steel beauty does for you. I have always been curious about them and the High Valley 2500 also. LIkes me them big steel stoves.


 I have a High Valley 2500. I love it i paid $900 for it used. I got it 2 years or so ago. Well got it in February 2011 so i used it the tail end of the 11 season and then all this last winter. I have about 2000sqft in my first floor, did not use the heat pumps at all this year and burned about 2 cords or less?


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## clemsonfor

mellow said:


> Don't want to derail the topic to much but at first I was going to get the 2500, but it just barely fit in my FP and it was not certified for 6" pipe. I would have jumped on the 1500 but could not find one at the right price, I think it would have done fine on 6" being a 2.5 cubic ft stove but all I could get is a verbal conformation on that from Stoll.
> 
> That is how I ended up with the Appalachian, I think I have only seen 1 member on here with a High Valley and maybe 2 with Appalachians in the past.


I talked to Stoll and they said that i could "probly" run my 2500 on a 6" pipe with my 25 ft chimney. Im going to try it and see what it does. I cant fit an 8" in my flue tiles.


Also on the firebrick, the High valley 2500 only has brick on the bottom of the box, not any on or up the sides.  But like was said your just smoking the wood, very little flames, generally a wisp or 2 and a secondary show, unless your really rolling the thing then you have some flames.


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## mellow

coltfever said:


> I come across an Appalachian 52 Bay insert. I hope to go look at it this weekend.


 
Did you get the Appalachian?


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## coltfever

Yes I bought it Monday. The date on the back of the stove reads a 2008 model. Been setting not in use for a while. I've taken the old conbustors out and will order new ones along with new gasket rope and wrap for the cats. The manual with it doesn't have a parts listing and I see you have used Service Sales for that. I will be connecting it on an 8 inch s/s liner I put in last year for my old Buck stove insert. The Appalachian 52 seems to look very good. Just need a litttle cleaning and be ready for use this winter. I might have a few questions for you along the way.


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## begreen

Congratulations! Take some picks if you can and post them here.


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## coltfever

Ok here are the pictures. These were taken when I went to look at it. I now have it in my shop doing a few thing to it.  I don't think the stove has been used much. He said he used it one year and that was all. Might have been one of those things he wanted at the time and then changed his mind. Fan runs very smooth and alot air movement. Wife likes the look of the bay windows on it. More pictures later after a good cleaning.


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## mellow

Looks good.  Get some extra flat gasket and do what I did to the ash dump and check the gasket on the door with a dollar bill test.   With such little use on those cats I would put in the new ones but don't throw away the ones you took out,  they should still have plenty of life left in them.

Also buy a Cat temp. probe,  having that makes controlling the stove so much easier, but be warned, I had to drill out the hole to make it a slightly bit bigger to fit my probe in.


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## coltfever

Thanks mellow for the info on the extra flat gasket for the ash door. The dollar bill test is good. Holds tight all places around closed door. Can't pull out. When I removed the cat cast housing from the stove all the rope gasket looks like 1/4 inch rope. Am I correct on that ? Also what kind of gasket wrap is that around the cats ? Sorry for so many questions but while its out time for replace with new. You mentioned a cat temp prob. Can all be ordered from service sales ? The old cats look ok I think but going to order new one anyway. Will keep the old ones though. Your pictures were helpful I see where you placed the cat temp prob.


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## mellow

http://www.servicesales.com/appalachian-stove-parts-c-17.html

Give Matt a call and he can get you the specifics for the gaskets and probe.  One thing that threw me off is on any of the listings this stove is listed as a 360CR if you are looking for parts.


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## mellow

Incase you need it I have attached the user manual.


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## coltfever

Ok I just off the phone talking to Matt. Very helpful and they have everything in stock except the 2 combustors ( ACI-19N) and should get those in about 7 to 10 days.
Looks like I'm in good shape. Thanks for the manual.


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## begreen

Wow, it looks barely broken in. If so, the combustors that came with it could be good for a while yet.


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## coltfever

The combustors seem to look ok. No older than the stove is and the used time its had I would say it would be fine with the original cats. Like with anything you buy used you never know what might show up until after in place and in use and thats the reason for the little fixes.
I do have a guestion for mellow about the 3 speed fan. On manual speed you have low,medium and high. When switched to automatic does the speed of the fan run from low to high as to how hot the stove is or do you set it at one of the 3 speed position and when it kicks on it runs at that speed ?  Something else I want to do when I clean and oil the fan is to replace the 2 position manual / auto switch with a 3 position  for off /manual / automatic. Sometimes when  taking the ashes out of my Buck stove the low fan would sometimes kick on. No a big deal but I thought if I had only put a 3 position switch on it that would be nice to cut off for the little short time to remove the ashes. I enjoy this site. Lot of good info from everyone.


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## mellow

I wish it would do like a Buck and kick on to the higher speeds with higher temps but it is only whatever speed you select on the Appalachian stoves.

No off switch for the fan is one of my problems with this stove,  are you going to use a toggle switch from a Buck stove?


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## coltfever

No I will go by an electrical supply and pick up one. The switch in the my old Buck 26000 is a one switch 2 position. Manual runs one speed ( high only ) or auto position  gives you the 3 speeds as it sees needed for the heat of the stove. I wonder if the newer Buck have changed like the way the Appalachian's stove is.


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## clemsonfor

i like the setup my High valley has, its got a reostat that is either off or what ever speed you set it on from super slow to very fast high. And then its got a manual or auto switch.  This seems to be the best for me, casue you can choose low high or anything inbetween. But i usually only run high when really cold or i run it about medium to medium-low.


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## begreen

The Buck had a more complex switching, thermostat setup than you may want to tackle. IIRC, they used 3 snap switches for the automatic mode. The location of the 3 snap disks is somewhat important for proper operation. If a single snap-disk that simply turns the fan on/off at a set temp, (say 130F on the bottom of the firebed), then that might be easier to retrofit.

http://compare.ebay.com/like/190638618838?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar&_lwgsi=y&cbt=y
or http://www.woodmanspartsplus.com/4855/559922/Stove-Blower-Controls/Stove-Blower-Sensor-Kit.html

or as an assembly:

http://www.woodmanspartsplus.com/4855/16447/Stove-Blower-Controls/Stove-Blower-Control.html


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## mellow

A multi-stage snap disk would be cool for this application,  not able to find one yet.   Just throw it on Auto and let it control the fan speed.


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## coltfever

Maybe mellow or begreen can tell me the color of the 52 Bay. Looking at the Stove Bright High Temp colors maybe Charcoal. I need to do a few little touch up on it.
The other day I got a package from Service Sales on an order I had placed and received it in a day and a half. Even the cats were in there that I thought were on back ordered ( wow what service ). Begreen you were right about the original cats that were in the stove. I put them into a bucket of warm soapy water and they cleaned up like new. So now I have an extra set for next time. Anyway my little stove project is coming along fine and hopefully after a little touch up paint on it I can bring it in the house.


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## mellow

You could try calling Appalachian directly,  their phone # is (828) 253-0164.   I like to call them just to bug the girl that answers the phone,  just be warned,  she is nice until you have a problem.  I wouldn't buy the touch up paint from them,  lord knows when they would ship it out,  but get the color code so you can buy elsewhere.

If you want to be on the safe side Matt might know as well, give him a call,  if anything he will call Appalachian and find out.


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## begreen

I emailed them, no response yet. A phone call would be quicker.


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## coltfever

Got it on order. Called Tina at Appalachian Stove and she had another name for it but she said its the same paint ( Stove Bright High Temp = Charcoal


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## mellow

Last night was the first night I could really load up the stove and let it do its thing,  the low was only in the lower 40's,  but I am happy so far with the results.  I loaded it up at 9pm last night and as of right now at 9am the cat is still at 400 and blowing out useful heat,  downstairs is still 75 and upstairs 72.   I am a happy camper so far.

This weekend will be a better test,  lows in lower 30's.


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## mellow

I am going to start looking for a variable speed switch for the fan on mine.  I would like it quieter and these nights I do not need as much heat and the fan on low eats 78 w,  to high for my tastes especially when I almost lost power during the hurricane,   my last stove I could get down to 30 w on the variable speed switch.


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## coltfever

I still haven't loaded mine full. Put about 3 or 4 sticks for overnight so far. Our coldest night was 2 days ago at 33 degs and then back up to 65 and 70. I hate to keep starting a fire just for the nights. Right now the back door is open. Weather sure is nice but now I'm wanting it to cool down so I can keep my stove going. This stove is new to me and I need some operating time.
  On my 52 Bay I did notice the other night when I had the air closed the flames were still a little more active than I thought it should be. Quick fix, The bottom screw on the right side bay window was loose. I went back and retighten all 4 of them just to be on the safe side.
  I like the fan idea you have in mind. Keep posted how it works out. Even the low speed is faster than I would like.


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## mellow

Can't seem to keep my front window from blacking out.  Seems the air wash is not that great with these stoves.


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## coltfever

Mine is the same way. We must have the same stove. Oh yea, we do.
Picture showing temp on one and the other side trim.


----------



## mellow

So I finally got sick and tired of the ash drawer leaking air.  I have to have a ton of ashes over it or a log on top of it so it blocks the leak.  The wife emptied the ashes (we don't use the ash drawer) and I was in a hurry the other night to load the stove,  ran the logs N/S and due to the leak in the ash drawer my cat was pegged at over 2000 deg even with the bypass open.

So fast forward to Saturday,  I went and bought some furnace cement and sealed up the opening to the ash drawer,   I would have a pic of my cement job but the kids got on my phone and deleted it.  My pics of the air leak during the fire made it through the kids delete spree on my phone.  Tried re-gasketing the ash drawer and lever but still could not get it to seal good.   So the ash drawer is now for looks only.

The stove is much more controllable now and I am getting longer burns to boot.  Now I can close the air down fully and let the cat purr along at 1500.  Also noticed I am not getting any blow backs with the air turned all the way down.


----------



## mellow

Also Saturday after finishing up the cement job I thought I would inspect the cats,  so I go to take off the cat shield and the first bolt comes off without a hitch,  go to work on the second bolt and it gets halfway and snaps,  ugh,  so I had to drill that out and retap for a new screw, after that I got around to inspecting the cats, they looked great,  still brushed them off for kicks and giggles and put the cover back on.


----------



## mellow

UPDATE:  Since sealing the ash dump and replacing the door gasket I have a much more controlled stove, this thing loves to have the air shut down completely (cat runs hotter),  have not had any blow back issues so far and I am amazed at my burn times now,  burning gum wood I am now getting 12 hour burns.   I loaded up the stove last night at 8pm,  closed the air fully at 8:30pm and when I checked it at 8:30am this morning the cat was still purring along at 450 degrees and it was still putting out hot air with the fan on high,  it could have gone longer than 12 hours but I had to reload it to get to work.

Outside temps last night were in the lower 30's.


----------



## begreen

Nice to hear that you are getting the stove dialed in well mellow. Maybe give Appalachian a call and let them know your findings.


----------



## mellow

Thanks Begreen.   One of the reasons I am documenting this is so that potential owners and current owners can get and give feedback on these stoves,  I wish I could say that Appalachian would welcome advise on their stoves but they make it very difficult to contact them,  so much so it makes you wonder if they really care about feedback.

Not sure how often they update these stoves,  looks like development stopped 10 years ago and it is a cookie cutter mold to this day,  I guess they feel if something works why update it?

Anyway,  it is no Woodstock but it helps warm my house.


----------



## mellow

I keep forgetting to ask this,  coltfever,  do you have an IR gun to register temps?  Wanted to know if you get higher temps on the right hand side of the stove just above the door than the left side.   I get a 100 degree difference between the sides sometimes.


----------



## weatherguy

Sounds like a good stove with a couple kinks that need to be worked out, fortunately your handy and can tinker, sounds like it burns like the BKs now.


----------



## coltfever

No mellow I don't have an IR gun. I just go by Rutland on the right side of the stove. I thought I would share a few changes I have made with mine though.
(1) Put a off/on switch that sure comes in handy when removing ashes. I don't like or use the ash drop box. Its wired to the low side of the fan.
(2) The catalyst flame shield is very easy to remove but a pain to put back on as you well know. The two small bolts holes are kinda hard to see to line back up. You can see in the picture I cut 2 small treaded rod stubs and put those where the bolts go and now all you have to do is raise the shield up and put your washer and nut on. Another thing was the damper flame shield blocked any view of the catalyst and I notice pictures of other cat stove have where aleast you can see when active. Well I can now. Not the neatest job but I drilled alot of small holes and now I see active catalyst and also and ash fly dust that might build up.
I think this is a very good stove and as alot of stoves as you use them you can see where improvement are needed. Any changes I do can very easy be put back to original if needed.


----------



## mellow

I always thought it was nice to see the cat glow on my old Sierra cat insert but worried about flame impingement killing my cat,  I will leave my cat shield stock on this stove for this reason.

* Why is 'flame impingement' bad for the catalyst? * 

Direct flame contact is death to the catalyst. A catalyst burns the byproducts in the smoke. The gases such as CO, HC, and O2 ignite with each other in a chemical reaction in the presence of the catalyst (while passing through the honeycomb configuration). Direct flame inhibits this reaction by changing the chemical make-up of the catalyst breaking down the substrate or ceramic. Today's modern wood burning stoves are designed so that flame impingement is unlikely. However, it is not impossible. A strong fast draft can pull the flames into the catalyst. A hot fire with all the primary air controls wide open or perhaps the firebox door or ash pan door ajar are other ways the catalyst might receive flame impingement.


----------



## mellow

While I was sealing up the ash dump I took a picture of my liner just to see if I am getting any build up in the first few feet since my last cleaning when I installed the stove, can't complain about that. With the warmer weather I might be so inclined to go up on the roof and check the last few feet for buildup but I am pretty sure it will look the same as I see very little smoke after I engage the cat.  Gotta love having a stove with a bypass,  I did miss having that with my last tube stove,  having to take that baffle down to see up the liner was a pain.


----------



## coltfever

I still have my stock cat shield also. The one on the stove is homemade. Like I say, I can go back original if needed. Did you ever put an off switch on your fan ? Also I did seal my ash drop door with furnace cement like yours. Looks like your stoves burning like it should.


----------



## mellow

I have mine connected to an APC 1500 UPS backup battery, it has a power switch on the front so I just turn it off when I want the fan off.

Which by the way, the fan in this thing is power hungry, 78 watts on high.


----------



## Woody Stover

mellow said:


> I have mine connected to an APC 1500 UPS backup battery,


So if the power goes out you can still run the fan? Do you have any idea how long you could run it off the battery?


----------



## mellow

With the fan on low I can eek out about 2 hours before it dies.   I am looking into having a deep cycle battery with a converter hooked up in future,  but really if the power is going to be out for a while I just hook up the generator to power the house.


----------



## coltfever

mellow what size is your liner 8 or 6 inch ? I have 8 on mine.


----------



## mellow

6 inch.


----------



## wood4free

Mellow and Coltfever I will soon be joining you. Service Sales offered a deal on the Appalachian 52 Bay I could not refuse and I will be picking it up next Tuesday at the freight terminal. I plan on using the Drolet insert for the remainder of the winter and installing the 52 Bay sometime this spring or summer when I have more time. Thanks again Mellow for answering my questions.


----------



## coltfever

Ok wood4free thats great. This is my first year winter with my 52 Bay. I enjoy it. I'm heating about 1800 sq ft with mine. I close off my upstairs because the way my house layout is just doesn't move heat upstairs. My longest burn time on a load has been 9 hrs of usable heat. Most of the time I run the fan on low and medium at bedtime. Whenever our temps drop into the teens will turn fan on high. Most of my wood is shagbark hickory with mix of cherry, walnut and hackberry. Anyway glad to hear you have a new stove on the way and looking forward to swaping notes.


----------



## AppalachianStan

Mellow and Coltfever I would like to know how your Stove run with 6" or 8" Pipe? I am running 8" I see Mellow get a 12 hour burn and Coltfever a 9 hour burn. I wonder if the pipe size makes any difference?
Like to swap notes on the 52 you all are the only ones I know that has this stove.


----------



## mellow

AppalachianStan said:


> Mellow and Coltfever I would like to know how your Stove run with 6" or 8" Pipe? I am running 8" I see Mellow get a 12 hour burn and Coltfever a 9 hour burn. I wonder if the pipe size makes any difference?
> Like to swap notes on the 52 you all are the only ones I know that has this stove.


 
Look up 3 posts for your answer about the pipe size. The 52 bay works on either 6" or 8", you might be able to get away with a shorter 8" liner, still would need at least 15 ft of pipe. Not really sure what "notes" you want to swap, you need to get cats put in yours for it to work as it was designed.

Wood will also make a difference in burn times,  I burn hardwoods,  (Maple,oak,gum)

Colt bought his used so his cats might be a little bit weaker than mine,  that would affect burn times.


----------



## AppalachianStan

Will you all are the only 2 I know that has this stove, but yours is the newer ones and my stove is from 1979. I have 8" X 15' of pipe. Is there a big difference in burn time for the size of pipe? My glass blacken too, What dose your air wash look like? I see you have a metal cap over your bypass rod I don,t have that. My cats are smaller then yours. my ash pan sound difference then yours. and so on. and it will cost me $200 for the cats. How much wood do you put in your stove?


----------



## mellow

Air wash on front window is not that great and it will darken up easily,  the glass on the side windows has no air wash system.   I fit in about 6 medium sized 18-22" splits going E/W into mine for an overnight burn,  the longer splits go in towards the front.  Mine has a 2.8 cubic ft firebox.


----------



## AppalachianStan

I burn N/S it burns better for me.  16" long 2" to 3" size split for me. 6 split will get  my stove to about 650" for about a 4 hour burn with out cats. not sure of size of firebox I have.


----------



## coltfever

Stan my insert is connected on a 8 inch insulated liner. The reason for 8 inch is because my other stove required that so it worked out good. The max burn time on my stove might be alittle less is because I have to use a little more primary air on my setup. My wood stove loading size are about the same as mellow. I have very little oak hardwood. Most of mine are hickory and I have plenty of it. I sure do enjoy my 52 Bay. Big improvement over my older stove. I don't always go for the 9 hour burn time but its there if needed. As far as the air wash design. Forget it. I just try to keep my glass clean like most do and thats doing it myself. If you use yours as a catalytic stove as it supposed to be put the probe on there as mellow suggested it should be a very good working stove for you.


----------



## AppalachianStan

Coltfever what is the height of your chimney?


----------



## coltfever

Stan my house is 2 story and if I remember right when I put the liner in it was 23 feet. So the chimney is about 25 feet tall.


----------



## mellow

While the stove was cold I finally got a pic of the furnace cement over my ash dump,   it is holding up very well.


----------



## JMartin

Stan, I have an Appalachian 32 insert made in the early 80's I believe. I'll bet our stoves have a lot in common. Thinking about putting in new combustors in the off season, maybe drilling a hole for a cat probe. Were you able to find a manual for yours? I contacted Appalachian and all they had was one for the newer 32BW stove.


----------



## AppalachianStan

JMartin said:


> Were you able to find a manual for yours?


No I can not find a manual for the 52


----------



## Pelfrey

A1Stoves.com said:


> if they take too much longer give me a ring
> we stock them but i doubt they are on our website...


 
I have a 52 BW.  Can you give me any advice on a Blower problem?  My blower will kick on at the right time when in auto mode (or manual/test) then once the stove continues to heat up after about 20 minutes it will turn off and wont work in auto or manual.  Then once the fire begins to die down and cool, the blower will kick back on and shut off at the correct time (auto mode)


----------



## Heatsource

^ sounds like a bad snap disc
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/anyone-know-how-to-test-a-snap-disc.86248/


----------



## mellow

Yep,  bad snap disc,  heck mine stays on for what I feel is to long after the fire has died down,   starts blowing out semi hot air.  Have to shut it off manually.


----------



## mellow

Finally got around to cleaning my chimney last weekend, very pleased with the buildup, the cap had a small amount of buildup on it, no where near getting clogged and the last few feet had some buildup due to not being insulated, you can tell in the picture where the insulation blanket starts and the buildup goes to nothing, guess I will have to stuff some Roxul down there. Total clean out was maybe half a cup of fine dusty creosote mostly from the top shown in the pic, very happy with that seeing since I ran 2 cords though the insert this year.


----------



## mellow

Looking to see if anyone has a Bay 52 made *BEFORE* 2007,  what I am looking for is on *top* (not the one above the door) of the insert will be a port/hole to put in a temperature probe behind the cat,  I could really use the dimensions on where that port is located on the top.   Thanks.


----------



## mellow

Ok guys, I think my hunch was right.  The Cat on these stoves is rear facing, so I wondered if a lot of the heat was shooting to the back of the stove and transferred to the brick on the back of the fireplace instead of going out via the fan to the front.

I can say for sure that since I have installed Durock + Roxul on the back and top and Durock on the sides of my fireplace the Appalachian is a different animal,  I now get longer hotter burns, I had issues with getting the insert to get up higher in temp when I needed more BTU's in the room on cold windy days, now I am able to get the top right hand side to 400-450 with ease with the cat purring at 1500, couldn't get the top that warm before.

If you are thinking about doing this I would recommend getting Micore 300 as that has a higher R value, that will be my next upgrade now that I know this helps.

In case you haven't seen it this is my thread on the insulation:  Finally got around to insulating my fireplace


----------



## mellow

Have any of you guys had to adjust the door latch?  Mine is getting wobbly and not latching good, I have about destroyed my door gasket with having to get it tight.  Thinking as soon as this season is done I will take the door off and take it apart to see if I can re-engineer this thing,  it is piss poor done.


----------



## Woody Stover

Is it like the Buck 91, two set screws? One set screw was missing on mine when I got it. Once I saw that and got it replaced, it's been fine.

You can't see the cam in this pic but you can just see the edge of the hole where the other set screw was supposed to be....


----------



## clemsonfor

My high valley stove which is similar to the app and buck has a curved rod through the door. Its threaded and then a wedged shaped piece of metal goes on the threaded inner portion of the door handle then a lock nut. It then locks to the stove wall. Seems simple but last year the nut was stripped and stripped out the door handle causing me to have to get a new one.  This year new handle and its fine.


----------



## mellow

All they did on the Bay 52 was to weld a piece of metal to the end of a rod,  it gets bent and doesn't latch very well after a while.

Appalachian 52 BAY Wood Stove Insert


----------



## mellow

Anyone got some ideas on how to rework the door latch on these things?






I am also going to try a harder door gasket, it seems the metal lip really beats in a regular door gasket and compresses it so this latch works even worse, I had my latch just about spun around to seal and still had a gasket leak right below it towards the end this season.

Thinking I will try the Rutland black Grapho-glas gaskets unless someone else can recommend a better one,  Appalachian sells the Perkins ones but I can get the Rutland ones local at Ace.


----------



## Woody Stover

Might have to replace the rod, but maybe you could attach a latch to the end of the handle rod, like the Buck has.
As far as the gasket, they have some bulk high-density gasket at woodmanspartsplus.com. It may take a bit of work to find what you want....kinda hard to navigate. I don't know if they have all sizes.

_There are two set screw in the body of the latch mechanism (you can see one hole here,) and another retaining screw that goes into the end of the handle rod._





_This handle is a little different, but shows the end screw._


----------



## Woody Stover

You can always order OEM gasket, then you know you have the right stuff.


----------



## mellow

So I pulled my door apart to see how it works and to replace window and door gaskets, thought I would post on how the primary air works on these stoves.

Have you ever wondered why your door glass looks like this?




The steel surround that pushes the door glass down to the gasket also routes the primary air up the sides and to the top, hence why you see the glass clean around it but not in the middle, I have traced out the air path with red arrows.  Btw, the air sliders are not as adjustable as I hoped, they will always allow air in even fully closed.




So app owners there you have it, better get used to cleaning that window manually if you want to see the fire.


----------



## mellow

Btw, the door latch is not adjustable and also leaks air in, in order to change it you have to cut the whole assembly off.


----------



## mellow

central_scrutinizer said:


> Mellow,
> 
> I tried a fix on my floor model and it worked pretty well.  I am sending you two different sizes of gasket material for the door, a dense 1/2" rope and a less-dense 5/8" rope.  See which one works best to fill the gap.



Hey Matt, I ended up replacing the 5/8" rope you sent me for the door, it started to leak air at the end of the last season on the latch side again.  I called Appalachian and they said it is either 3/8" or 5/8" depending on the model year.

I have tried replacing it with a Rutland 5/8" kit I picked up at tractor supply, the rope in that is hollow in the middle (low density), and now the door latch is too loose.  Any ideas on what I should do from here?  I was going to order a 5/8" dense rope gasket.  It seems the way this door was designed going up against that metal lip it compresses the gasket quicker than if it was going against a flat surface, especially on the hinge side.  I tried some dense 3/4" but I could barely get the door closed.


----------



## mellow

mellow said:


> One of the interesting things on this stove is the start up air vent,  it goes straight into the firebox so you do not have to crack the door open to get the fire started,  worked great for my break in fires.
> View attachment 65103



Just a heads up, I ended up getting some 3/4" magnet tape and covering over the startup air slider, I guess with time it was starting to get sloppy and allow air into the firebox even with it closed.  I trimmed the 3/4" magnet at one end so it would fit around the handle and seal the whole area, you will only need about 3". Using a smoke test it seems to have cut down the air leakage.  

I used a magnet so the startup air can still be used, it works great on getting a cold fire going.


----------



## JMartin

mellow said:


> Just a heads up, I ended up getting some 3/4" magnet tape and covering over the startup air slider, I guess with time it was starting to get sloppy and allow air into the firebox even with it closed.  I trimmed the 3/4" magnet at one end so it would fit around the handle and seal the whole area, you will only need about 3". Using a smoke test it seems to have cut down the air leakage.
> 
> I used a magnet so the startup air can still be used, it works great on getting a cold fire going.
> 
> View attachment 151847


Don't you need to have some air getting in there? I have an Appalachian from the 80's. It has two sliding dampers on the front. They are loose in the slides so I know air gets past them when closed. Should I seal them up some how or is this by design?


----------



## mellow

My primary air is on the sliders on the door, this is strickly for startup air.

Image of mine here, the part I am sealing is circled in red: https://www.hearth.com/talk/attachments/wp_000400-jpg.65103/


----------



## coltfever

Glad you took the primary air cover off.  Thanks for the pictures. I've been wanting to see how it looked. Its what i pictured. Mellow my door latch is a little different look on the inside of the stove but still alot alike also. I don't like the way the handle design is at all but mine has not shown any wear at all. I haven't had to replace any of my gaskets.


----------



## JMartin

mellow said:


> My primary air is on the sliders on the door, this is strickly for startup air.
> 
> Image of mine here, the part I am sealing is circled in red: https://www.hearth.com/talk/attachments/wp_000400-jpg.65103/


So do you bring the stove up to a certain temp and then close off the dampers?


----------



## mellow

From a cold start I open up that startup air slider halfway, that is about all it needs along with the primary air on the doors fully open.  Then when the fire gets going good I close the startup air slider but leave the primary air open on the door. After about 20-25 minutes I can close the damper once my cat reaches about 600 degrees, then I cut my primary air sliders back about 50%, then another 10 minutes my cat is around 800 then I will close both primary air to fully closed and my cat will climb up to around 1200 and I won't reload for another 6-12 hours depending on how much I load the stove and how hard I run it.

Once I get it up and going I now cover the startup air slider with the magnet.


----------



## JMartin

mellow said:


> From a cold start I open up that startup air slider halfway, that is about all it needs along with the primary air on the doors fully open.  Then when the fire gets going good I close the startup air slider but leave the primary air open on the door. After about 20-25 minutes I can close the damper once my cat reaches about 600 degrees, then I cut my primary air sliders back about 50%, then another 10 minutes my cat is around 800 then I will close both primary air to fully closed and my cat will climb up to around 1200 and I won't reload for another 6-12 hours depending on how much I load the stove and how hard I run it.
> 
> Once I get it up and going I now cover the startup air slider with the magnet.


Nice. Do you ever have problems with blow back? Mine does it sporadically and I can't figure out the cause. I'm thinking it may be something to do with the wood or maybe too much ash/coals in the firebox. With the air controls closed I can see a fireball flare up inside and smoke will come out around the air control slides.


----------



## mellow

I have had issues in the past with puff backs when I had wetter wood, with dry wood I can shut the air down quicker.

With greener wood you will have to slowly cut the air back in smaller increments or you will get the puff backs.  All that fuel is releasing smoke and with no active flame going it gets lit by the hot cat and you get an explosion pushing smoke out every opening.


----------



## JMartin

mellow said:


> I have had issues in the past with puff backs when I had wetter wood, with dry wood I can shut the air down quicker.
> 
> With greener wood you will have to slowly cut the air back in smaller increments or you will get the puff backs.  All that fuel is releasing smoke and with no active flame going it gets lit by the hot cat and you get an explosion pushing smoke out every opening.


That would explain it, Mellow. The wood I'm burning now is small but it was cut and stacked only 8 months ago and I live in a pretty humid climate. So maybe I'm on the border line of burning green wood. A moisture meter is on my shopping list. My goal is to get a big enough wood supply that I'm burning at least 2 year old wood. Thanks for the feedback.


----------



## mellow

What species of wood are you burning?


----------



## JMartin

Mostly red oak. January a year ago I had somebody bring a 1/2 cord of what he says was hickory. Whatever it is it sparks and smokes a lot. It's pretty heavy so probably not sweet gum maple. Hoping it just needs more drying time. I have all my wood cut in foot long pieces so I can load it either direction. Front to back seems to work best.


----------



## mellow

Oak is one of the longer seasoning woods, 2-3 years before it is usually ready to burn, splitting it smaller helps but still needs over a year since it is so dense.

I burn a lot of gum, it does season a bit quicker, usually in a year if split in small to medium, still takes 2 years for larger splits.


----------



## JMartin

I burned a bit of gum last year and was glad to be done with it. Boy did it smoke and spark. Foul smelling smoke, and a lot of ash. Again, it sounds like I didn't cure it long enough.


----------



## English BoB

mellow said:


> From a cold start I open up that startup air slider halfway, that is about all it needs along with the primary air on the doors fully open.  Then when the fire gets going good I close the startup air slider but leave the primary air open on the door. After about 20-25 minutes I can close the damper once my cat reaches about 600 degrees, then I cut my primary air sliders back about 50%, then another 10 minutes my cat is around 800 then I will close both primary air to fully closed and my cat will climb up to around 1200 and I won't reload for another 6-12 hours depending on how much I load the stove and how hard I run it.
> 
> Once I get it up and going I now cover the startup air slider with the magnet.



Where do you take your cat temps and with what ?

thanks Bob


----------



## JMartin

English BoB said:


> Where do you take your cat temps and with what ?
> 
> thanks Bob


I assume this question is directed at Mellow but I will chime in too..My old Appalachian didn't have a place to insert a cat probe so I had to drill a hole through the front panel. I cut my probe to length so that it is about as close as you can get to the front of the left cat without making contact. Works great.


----------



## English BoB

JMartin said:


> I assume this question is directed at Mellow but I will chime in too..My old Appalachian didn't have a place to insert a cat probe so I had to drill a hole through the front panel. I cut my probe to length so that it is about as close as you can get to the front of the left cat without making contact. Works great.



Thank you for that quick reply.


----------



## mellow

I use a condar catalytic probe  you can see pics of it in this post:  https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/appalachian-52-bay-wood-stove-insert.83621/page-3#post-1113063


----------



## English BoB

mellow said:


> I use a condar catalytic probe  you can see pics of it in this post:  https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/appalachian-52-bay-wood-stove-insert.83621/page-3#post-1113063




I see the probe in the pictures you posted, thank you, 
After reading the installation manual....I know....I know....there is a small screw to the left of the damper for a front mounted catalytic probe. Remove screw and insert catalytic probe.
Is does not say what size.

Thanks Bob


----------



## mellow

English BoB said:


> Is does not say what size.
> Thanks Bob



Order it from the guys at servicesales.com, they know the correct size.


----------



## mellow

English BoB said:


> I see the probe in the pictures you posted, thank you,
> After reading the installation manual....I know....I know....there is a small screw to the left of the damper for a front mounted catalytic probe. Remove screw and insert catalytic probe.
> Is does not say what size.
> 
> Thanks Bob



6.5" Condar cat probe


----------



## English BoB

mellow said:


> 6.5" Condar cat probe



Thanks Mellow, just ordered.

Bob


----------



## mellow

mellow said:


> I wanted to followup with a picture of the door latch,  I am not crazy about it, it is not the easiest to open and shut but I am sure with time it will wear down and smooth out,  which also worries me,  it doesn't look easy to replace if something happens to it, I am guessing the whole handle would have to be replaced.
> 
> View attachment 65137



My prediction was correct, the latch does get worn out and gets sloppy with the only way to adjust it is to do what I did last night, put vice-grips on it and try to bend it back without snapping it off.  I have been on a gasket kick, I have tried 4 different manufactures gaskets on the door this season to help and none really did the job well.

I am hoping that Fil-Tec will send me some 1/2" high density gasket samples so I can try that, tried medium and low density and had the same results, they wear out quickly and allow air in.


----------



## mellow

coltfever said:


> Glad you took the primary air cover off.  Thanks for the pictures. I've been wanting to see how it looked. Its what i pictured. Mellow my door latch is a little different look on the inside of the stove but still alot alike also. I don't like the way the handle design is at all but mine has not shown any wear at all. I haven't had to replace any of my gaskets.



Can you post some pics of your latch?


----------



## English BoB

English BoB said:


> Thanks Mellow, just ordered.
> 
> Bob





mellow said:


> 6.5" Condar cat probe



Mellow, The cat probe arrived yesterday, I tried to remove the screw - it came loose - but will not come out. Is there anything holding it on the backside ?

Or the thread may be stripped and holding just enough to prevent it pulling out.

I dont want to cut the head of the screw off and cause a problem.

Your advice would be helpful.

thanks Bob


----------



## mellow

You won't cause a problem, thick metal behind that screw.  I would reach into the firebox and feel the screw while turning it, see if you can put some pressure on it and get the threads to grab and back it out.  If not I would just drill it out.


----------



## English BoB

mellow said:


> You won't cause a problem, thick metal behind that screw.  I would reach into the firebox and feel the screw while turning it, see if you can put some pressure on it and get the threads to grab and back it out.  If not I would just drill it out.



Thanks, will keep you informed.

Bob


----------



## English BoB

[q
uote="mellow, post: 1899030, member: 3870"]You won't cause a problem, thick metal behind that screw.  I would reach into the firebox and feel the screw while turning it, see if you can put some pressure on it and get the threads to grab and back it out.  If not I would just drill it out.[/quote]

I got the screw out, inserted the probe and this is what I found as a result.

sorry for the quality of the pics in advance. This first is the probe installed.
The second show the temp on the stack and the probe. If you cannot make them out, the stack is approx 250 deg and the probe is at 2,0,clock which is 1600 deg.
Now I was using the stack for my guide, which in the above case, I would have added more air to increase the stack temp for more heat. This resulted in shorter hotter burns.
Now I have a longer steadier heat output. After 10.0hrs house is around 60 deg lately when I get home, the probe is still in active range and I can refill without it dropping out of range.
A short burst of air 5 - 10 mins and the fire is right back up.

Feel free to weight in with comments as this is the first time ive used the cat temp to regulate burning.

Bob


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## Woody Stover

English BoB said:


> I was using the stack for my guide, which in the above case, I would have added more air to increase the stack temp for more heat. This resulted in shorter hotter burns.
> Now I have a longer steadier heat output.


Yep, it all depends how much wood you get burning and how hot the stove is before you cut the air. You can choose weather you want a low cruise or a wall of heat.  I usually go for a medium cruise...don't like that riding that razor edge of the hot burn, where I'm close to the cat going high.


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## mellow

Sounds like you are burning her right now, nice long steady burns are the key.  If it stops doing that check your gaskets or your door latch first, then check your cat to see if it needs to be cleaned or replaced.


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## English BoB

mellow said:


> Sounds like you are burning her right now, nice long steady burns are the key.  If it stops doing that check your gaskets or your door latch first, then check your cat to see if it needs to be cleaned or replaced.



Supposed to be 91 degrees here today. So I started cleaning the stove - to hot to be outside, As I vacuumed in the damper housing there were some "clunks " sucked up, then I found pieces of combuster.
So, they need to be replaced. All the info was in this thread how to, part numbers, pics - great.

The biggest hurdle is getting those 9/16 bolts out of the shield, Iam sure they will break and have to be drilled, so wish me luck.

Replacements are $118.00 each on Amazon, part # AC1-19N


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## English BoB

.Well it all came apart, here is whats left of the cat and check out the warp in the flame shield   $$$$$$$$$


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## mellow

Now that you have a probe on it hopefully the new cat and shield will last longer. 

Be sure to go over the entire cat housing if the shield is that warped, I would be worried the damper would not be closing as much as it should.  The rest of the stove should be fine as it is thick steel but still would be good to give it a once over.


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## Woody Stover

English BoB said:


> check out the warp in the flame shield   $$$$$$$$$


You might try to just beat it back flat with a hammer, but that looks like pretty thick steel plate...


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## coltfever

bob if you haven't taken the damper housing out by now  put a few drops of 3n1 oil on the bolt treads and they should back out easy. The housing is kinda heavy so you might want to cut you 2 or 3 wood support to hold it in place until your ready to drop it down.


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## English BoB

Woody Stover said:


> You might try to just beat it back flat with a hammer, but that looks like pretty thick steel plate...



The steel was 1/16inch and strightened out pretty well, phew........


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## English BoB

coltfever said:


> bob if you haven't taken the damper housing out by now  put a few drops of 3n1 oil on the bolt treads and they should back out easy. The housing is kinda heavy so you might want to cut you 2 or 3 wood support to hold it in place until your ready to drop it down.



Thanks for the tip.............


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## Old School

I know this is an old thread and until now I haven't chimed in on the 52 Bay because for the last three seasons I have regretted purchasing the stove. That has changed this season and so far I have been much happier with the stove. I won't bore you with all the details but when I purchased the stove the dealer advised it would work fine as a slammer install which is what I did and quickly learned that wasn't going to work and after many months of calling back and forth with the dealer worked out a deal to purchase a 6" 35 ft liner that I installed 2 years ago as a basement install which helped some but I was still not happy. That is when I found this site and started thinking about drier wood and a block off plate. So this year I stuffed the damper area with Roxul and I am using wood that is 18 months c/s/s and the stove is a different animal all together. I have burned 5 or 6 overnights so far with usable heat 8-10 hrs and a good coal bed with no babysitting. Until now I would spend ridiculous amounts of time getting it up to temp to engage the cat and cut the air down and then it would struggle to stay up to temp after the blower cut on and wake up to a cold stove. I wanted to share my experience in hopes that it will keep someone else from going through the same frustrations. I will add that it still does not put out the immediate radiant heat that my old smoke dragon upstairs does but the overnight burns and steady heat are more in line for what I needed for the location of this stove.  I now plan to remove the surround so that any heat trapped in the fireplace can get out and I think it will be a better looking setup as well. I will also fabricate a metal block off plate in the near future.


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## clemsonfor

Yep wet wood does not burn. Get that oak seasoned for 24-36 months and it will be better probably.


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## mellow

Good to hear, you might want to give your cat a good cleaning, with the less than optimal burning it might be a bit clogged and you could get even more heat out of it.


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## Old School

Thank you for mentioning that I should have included in the first post that I did clean the cats when I swept the chimney earlier this fall and they were in need of it. Luckily they were not damaged though.


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## English BoB

Old School said:


> I know this is an old thread and until now I haven't chimed in on the 52 Bay because for the last three seasons I have regretted purchasing the stove. That has changed this season and so far I have been much happier with the stove. I won't bore you with all the details but when I purchased the stove the dealer advised it would work fine as a slammer install which is what I did and quickly learned that wasn't going to work and after many months of calling back and forth with the dealer worked out a deal to purchase a 6" 35 ft liner that I installed 2 years ago as a basement install which helped some but I was still not happy. That is when I found this site and started thinking about drier wood and a block off plate. So this year I stuffed the damper area with Roxul and I am using wood that is 18 months c/s/s and the stove is a different animal all together. I have burned 5 or 6 overnights so far with usable heat 8-10 hrs and a good coal bed with no babysitting. Until now I would spend ridiculous amounts of time getting it up to temp to engage the cat and cut the air down and then it would struggle to stay up to temp after the blower cut on and wake up to a cold stove. I wanted to share my experience in hopes that it will keep someone else from going through the same frustrations. I will add that it still does not put out the immediate radiant heat that my old smoke dragon upstairs does but the overnight burns and steady heat are more in line for what I needed for the location of this stove.  I now plan to remove the surround so that any heat trapped in the fireplace can get out and I think it will be a better looking setup as well. I will also fabricate a metal block off plate in the near future.



Welcome to the forum. I can relate to every thing you say and my 52 is a different beast this season as well. I installed a probe temp gauge with the help from Mellow, replaced the cats and now have a good supply of dry wood. Havnt had any overnight burns yet just evening fires to take the chill off, shoulder wood and uglies,

bob


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## Old School

I am considering replacing the 3 speed switch with a variable speed so that I can slow down the fan more on my 52. I read back through this thread and saw where others considered it and I am wondering if anyone actually did so. If so what were the results?


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## Woody Stover

clemsonfor said:


> Yep wet wood does not burn. Get that oak seasoned for 24-36 months and it will be better probably.


For sure. I've been burning some three-year Red Oak recently and it is _rockin'!  _


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## Easy Livin’ 3000

mellow said:


> Got the XTD out last night,  but cutting the flex pipe for the taller insert is a major pain with dull metal scissors,  getting a pair of real cutters after mangling the pipe and a lot of cussing.  Hope to finish the install this weekend.
> 
> I do have my fair share of concerns that the reducer does not attach to the top of the insert,  I am being really careful with how much I cut of the flex pipe so that it will have enough force to push down on the adapter to keep it seated (in theory).
> 
> The stove looks nice,  looks well built from the look over I gave it last night.  Not to crazy about the door latch, just a piece of metal welded to the handle,  hope it holds up.


Try an angle grinder with a cutting wheel to cut the liner. Like a warm knife through butter (almost), and no distortion.   Also used it to remove parts of the cast iron damper to make way for the liner.


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## mellow

Old School said:


> I am considering replacing the 3 speed switch with a variable speed so that I can slow down the fan more on my 52. I read back through this thread and saw where others considered it and I am wondering if anyone actually did so. If so what were the results?



https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/harbor-freight-fan-speed-controller.125170/


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## Old School

Thanks mellow.


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## Worzy

Just got done reading this thread on the 52 bay, great info.  I have had a 52 since 2009 and have had many of the same issues.  There are things that I love about the stove and things that I hate.  I haven't closed off my ash door like some have because I keep my fire burning continuous and like to just sift the ashes into the ash bin before I reload each morning.  I am going through my stove now and am going to try to seal the ash door better so that less air is fed through it.  I have also experienced the warped flame shield and even a crack in the damper housing.  I added extra fire bricks to the factory location so that the brick goes up to the top of the stove with hopes of holding heat longer and preventing heat from leaving the back of the firebox.  All in all, the stove has performed fair for the price.  I burn it steady from October through March, and clean the Cats about three times per year.  My wood supply is not always top notch and this has lead to some of my problems with the stove.  I have to add extra air to keep the subpar wood burning and have let it get too hot once the moisture comes out of the wood.  I only get about 3 years out of my cats due to this.  I'm making good ground on getting ahead of my wood supply this winter so this shouldn't be an issue in the future.  I am not experiencing the glass issues that others are, I can keep my front glass 75% clean most of the time, I feel that this is due to keeping the primary air controls at least 25% open all of the time.  keeping logs as far away from the glass as possible helps as well.  How many years are you guys getting out of your cats?  I find it hard to believe that anyone is getting the 10 years that fircat claims is possible.


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## Worzy

I forgot to mention that I added a ceiling fan rheostat to my blower right next to the other switch's,  This allows me to adjust the speed infinitely and shut off the blower all together when reloading.


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## mellow

I am on my 3rd season with my cats, they still look good.  I think you are running the stove way to hot with the controls open that much, do you have a cat temperature probe?  I bet you are cooking your cats, but at the same time you are running hot enough to keep the glass clean


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## mellow

Worzy said:


> ceiling fan rheostat



These have been known to kill blowers, that is why a speed controller is recommended.


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## Worzy

mellow said:


> I am on my 3rd season with my cats, they still look good.  I think you are running the stove way to hot with the controls open that much, do you have a cat temperature probe?  I bet you are cooking your cats, but at the same time you are running hot enough to keep the glass clean



I do have a temperature probe that was given to me by my dealer but I don't think that it is getting close enough to the cats to give me an accurate reading.  My probe never goes over 1600 and is usually around 1000.  The end of the probe is about 3/4" from the front of the cat.  I'm going to order the longer one mentioned earlier in this thread.


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## clemsonfor

Worzy said:


> Just got done reading this thread on the 52 bay, great info.  I have had a 52 since 2009 and have had many of the same issues.  There are things that I love about the stove and things that I hate.  I haven't closed off my ash door like some have because I keep my fire burning continuous and like to just sift the ashes into the ash bin before I reload each morning.  I am going through my stove now and am going to try to seal the ash door better so that less air is fed through it.  I have also experienced the warped flame shield and even a crack in the damper housing.  I added extra fire bricks to the factory location so that the brick goes up to the top of the stove with hopes of holding heat longer and preventing heat from leaving the back of the firebox.  All in all, the stove has performed fair for the price.  I burn it steady from October through March, and clean the Cats about three times per year.  My wood supply is not always top notch and this has lead to some of my problems with the stove.  I have to add extra air to keep the subpar wood burning and have let it get too hot once the moisture comes out of the wood.  I only get about 3 years out of my cats due to this.  I'm making good ground on getting ahead of my wood supply this winter so this shouldn't be an issue in the future.  I am not experiencing the glass issues that others are, I can keep my front glass 75% clean most of the time, I feel that this is due to keeping the primary air controls at least 25% open all of the time.  keeping logs as far away from the glass as possible helps as well.  How many years are you guys getting out of your cats?  I find it hard to believe that anyone is getting the 10 years that fircat claims is possible.


Dry wood helps A LOT with keeping the glass clean. I'm on year three of my cats...I dint have the same stove you do and I have Condar cats.


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## Worzy

Worzy said:


> I do have a temperature probe that was given to me by my dealer but I don't think that it is getting close enough to the cats to give me an accurate reading.  My probe never goes over 1600 and is usually around 1000.  The end of the probe is about 3/4" from the front of the cat.  I'm going to order the longer one mentioned earlier in this thread.



How much flame is in your firebox when you first shut down after a reload?


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## mellow

Not much, I try to keep a little active flame so I do not get any puff backs.  My air controls are pretty close to closed within 15 minutes of a reload, especially with the compressed wood bricks I am burning this year, which BTW this stove loves them mixed with my regular oak/maple mix.  I have been getting 16 hour burns with plenty of hot coals left for reloads.


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## Ben Grimes

Not sure if anyone is still checking this thread but I found it very helpful. I've been trying to troubleshoot my Appalachian Bay 52 and came across this forum. Here's my situation: I moved into this house about 3 years ago and have been running this wood stove according to the instructions of the previous owner. The house is about 2,400 square feet with 3 distinct sections. One main room is about 900 square feet where the wood stove sits. Another room on the ground floor is about 800 square feet and upstairs attached to the 800 square foot room is the upstairs. The smaller downstairs room is about 30 feet in front of the wood stove and is accessed by a single door which is left open.

On the colder days and nights here, typically in the 30's day time and teens to low twenties in the day (2 degrees tonight!) the temperature in the larger upstairs room hovers around 60, the second room in the mid-50's and upstairs in the low 50's. This is my first experience with woodstove's and assumed this was normal but after visiting a friend to see his new wood stove I realized I should be expecting more. His stove uses radiant heat and he has problems keeping his double wide trailer below 78. After scouring the internet I've found that for the most part people's main problems with wood stoves is they keep the house too warm, not cold. 

I read through every post in this thread and have put into practice many of the tips. I don't have a cat probe or a stove thermometer (ordered both since coming across this thread earlier today) but I am measuring the temperature of a pot of water I keep on the stove for humidifying purposes. Before coming across this thread the water read 110 and with some tweaking of how I operate the stove it now reads 135. The heat output is noticeably increased but still not enough to get the house into a more comfortable range.

I am using well seasoned firewood. I have not opened the unit to check the status of the cat but I had a new one installed Fall of 2015 and the smoke coming out the chimney is clean. I'm not sure what the chimney dimensions are but the unit was installed by a professional and I'm assuming he did a good job. Any idea where the weak link might be?


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## mellow

Is this an Insert install or Free Standing?


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## Ben Grimes

mellow said:


> Is this an Insert install or Free Standing?



Thanks for replying. It's an insert.


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## mellow

First step would be to install a block off plate and insulate that fireplace.


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## kennyp2339

mellow said:


> First step would be to install a block off plate and insulate that fireplace.


This above..also what are the ceiling heights in the house?


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## samfatboy

Glad to see this forum on the Appalachian 52 Bay.

I have had my 52 Bay since the end of the 2007/2008 winter when I got tired of burning 1000 to 1350 gallons of oil every year to heat my home. Our kids have grown up and moved out. I went through a divorce, and my ex is no longer here, but I am, and the Appalachian is still burning strong.

My oil consumption was cut nearly in half by using the Appalachian. I don’t cut or stack wood. For the most part I burn Bio Bricks, Fiber Bricks, Envi Bricks, whatever bricks are on sale. The Appalachian loves them. I also throw in the pallets the bricks come on, which I cut up with a chain saw. I have an unlimited supply of pallets to supplement my bricks.

The stove has its quirks, but overall, it has been a great value. This is not a Blaze King or Harmon. I would call it a working mans/womans stove. Similar in value, but not customer service, as Englander pellet stoves.

By simply following the good advice I found on this forum – choosing the right draft and chimney liner, insulating the liner with Roxul, installing a damper block off, insulating the area behind the stove, checking the gaskets, etcetera – I have been able to get 12-15 hour burns on a pack of bricks pretty regularly. I had to replace the original cast iron flame deflector once, but the replacement is thick hardened steel plate that looks unblemished after 5 years. One of the side lite window screws broke, and I had to re-tap it. Other than that, I still have the original cats, and they seem to work fine.

Since my house is a colonial, and the Appalachian is at one end of the house – in the family room – I installed an Englander 25 PDVC on the other side of the house in the living room. Now the only reason I burn any oil is to move the hot air around the house – I have oil fired forced hot air. I am down to about 200 gallons a season, and 50 of that is for convenience at the end of the season when I don’t feel like shoveling snow, and I don’t feel like loading another load into the Appalachian. Overall, my heating costs have run about 25 to 35 percent lower than if I was heating with oil, but I buy all of my wood. The Appalachian will heat the whole 2100 square feet with outside temps down to about 30F. With the two stoves the house stays a comfy 70 to 74 downstairs and 65 to 70 upstairs with outside temps down to about -10F.

One warning. I don’t know about anyone else’s App, but mine has this habit of putting me to sleep on the couch while loading the evening burn. It has this thermo-wave, hypnotic effect that lulls me into a stupor that makes it impossible to get up.

Happy burning!


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