# Wood Gun Steel nozzle?



## 68dodgeramman (Dec 15, 2012)

Just wondering if anyone has ordered this? I just got mine the other day and they measure 6" wide. I don't know if they sent ones for the E140 or if they are for my E100. I thought they would fit right down on the ledge of the main refractory like the original ceramic nozzles do. So I'm not sure if I should lay them on top of the main refractory and fire it up or wait till Monday to call Alternate Heating. Any info is really appreciated because it's really cold up here and she wants me to get it started ASAP Lol.


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## avc8130 (Dec 15, 2012)

68dodgeramman said:


> Just wondering if anyone has ordered this? I just got mine the other day and they measure 6" wide. I don't know if they sent ones for the E140 or if they are for my E100. I thought they would fit right down on the ledge of the main refractory like the original ceramic nozzles do. So I'm not sure if I should lay them on top of the main refractory and fire it up or wait till Monday to call Alternate Heating. Any info is really appreciated because it's really cold up here and she wants me to get it started ASAP Lol.


 
Is AHS marketing steel nozzles now?  Can you take pics?

I wonder if they put them OVER the ledges since the steel will probably expand with heat and might cause the refractory to crack.

ac


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## infinitymike (Dec 15, 2012)

This must be a new option. They didn't offer it to me last year. 
Pictures would be truely appreciated.


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## infinitymike (Dec 15, 2012)

How long have you had your WG? Did the originals disintegrate?


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## 711mhw (Dec 15, 2012)

I just happened to stop in there last week on my way to MD, and saw them on a shelf. They told me that they were really for someone that had severe deterioration to the "shelf" that supports the std. "center brick" This is the reason for the extra width. I had commented that they should last forever, the response was "about the same".
I think I'll give them a try unless I make a set.


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## Fred61 (Dec 16, 2012)

711mhw said:


> I just happened to stop in there last week on my way to MD, and saw them on a shelf. They told me that they were really for someone that had severe deterioration to the "shelf" that supports the std. "center brick" This is the reason for the extra width. I had commented that they should last forever, the response was "about the same".
> I think I'll give them a try unless I make a set.


 If the ledge that your present center brick sits on has not deteriorated it surely will be unless you protect it with something. It will start crumbling just like the lips of your center bricks. *Don't* ruin your refractory just to experiment with them. Whomever neglected their boiler so much that this patch is needed should be burning oil.


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## infinitymike (Dec 16, 2012)

Fred. What is your suggestion to protect that ledge.


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## avc8130 (Dec 16, 2012)

The "ledge" appears to be the Achilles heel to the lower refractory, which is a bit pricey to replace.  I think what AHS has done, is simply put a steel nozzle spanning the entire gap, from the curved refractory edges.  This would essentially eliminate the ledges function (holding the center bricks), but it would probably also cause them to erode whatever is left rather quick.  That wouldn't really matter if they weren't being used any more.

How about a pic?

ac


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## Fred61 (Dec 16, 2012)

infinitymike said:


> Fred. What is your suggestion to protect that ledge.


 Keep using the center bricks unless they made some provision in the steel to protect the ledge. Don't know, waiting for the same photo you guys are waiting for.


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## Fred61 (Dec 16, 2012)

avc8130 said:


> That wouldn't really matter if they weren't being used any more


The problem is when the ledge is gone erosion won't stop there, it'll keep going and the refractory is not an easily replaceable item. What happens if you experiment with the steel grate and you find that it doesn't work out at about the same time as the ledge is gone? There's no "going back".


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## avc8130 (Dec 16, 2012)

Fred61 said:


> The problem is when the ledge is gone erosion won't stop there, it'll keep going and the refractory is not an easily replaceable item. What happens if you experiment with the steel grate and you find that it doesn't work out at about the same time as the ledge is gone? There's no "going back".


 
I agree.  I wouldn't switch to a steel nozzle that doesn't use the ledge, unless the ledge was gone.  At that point I think you are just "buying time" to put off refractory replacement. 

ac


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## Fred61 (Dec 16, 2012)

avc8130 said:


> I agree. I wouldn't switch to a steel nozzle that doesn't use the ledge, unless the ledge was gone. At that point I think you are just "buying time" to put off refractory replacement.
> 
> ac


I agree. If you want to experiment with a steel nozzle, build your own in the same configuration as your ceramic one. As I warned in a previous post, allow for expansion of the steel.


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## avc8130 (Dec 16, 2012)

Fred61 said:


> I agree. If you want to experiment with a steel nozzle, build your own in the same configuration as your ceramic one. As I warned in a previous post, allow for expansion of the steel.


 
I was playing around with an online calculator, I THINK a steel nozzle would expand ~ .090" in width.  The steel nozzle could be 1/8-3/16" narrower than the ledge opening and should be "safe".

ac


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## Fred61 (Dec 16, 2012)

avc8130 said:


> I was playing around with an online calculator, I THINK a steel nozzle would expand ~ .090" in width. The steel nozzle could be 1/8-3/16" narrower than the ledge opening and should be "safe".
> 
> ac


 Just don't go so narrow that the flow will leak by. That could also cause erosion. By now you can see that I place alot of value on that ledge.


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## 68dodgeramman (Dec 16, 2012)

Well, my ledge is not eroded badly, and when I ordered the center brick they didn't ask if it was. It just seemed that it was another option. Here are some pics of the shorter one. I think I'll have some made that fit on top of the ledge after reading your posts, thanks. Now I have another one for you; I've had water in the ash pan since I've gotten the boiler, about four years ago. I just replaced all the door seals and tightened everything where air might get in, I cleaned from the stack down. I took the fan off and the cyclone and thoroughly cleaned both. I started it last night and I immediately see water dripping from the ash pan. So this morning I went on the roof with my temp gauge and it says around 158 to 161 degrees. That's at the cap. I have about 12' to 15' of SS double walled insulated pipe running from the ceiling in the garage through the roof. And single walled SS pipe from the cyclone to the ceiling. Do you think insulating the single walled pipe will help, and if so, what do you use to do that? I'd rather not have to go out and buy all new insulated pipe now. Thanks again.


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## Fred61 (Dec 16, 2012)

I can't tell what the dimensions are but it appears from the photo that the stringers along the bottom will sit on the ledge. If so, that should protect it. It doesn't look like what I envisioned. Also ash should pack in beside it to seal the gap. I never licked the water in the ash pan but there has been some discussion here recently. Perhaps you can do a search and possibly work with the other Gunners on here and do some experimenting together.


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## avc8130 (Dec 16, 2012)

Fred61 said:


> I can't tell what the dimensions are but it appears from the photo that the stringers along the bottom will sit on the ledge. If so, that should protect it. It doesn't look like what I envisioned. Also ash should pack in beside it to seal the gap. I never licked the water in the ash pan but there has been some discussion here recently. Perhaps you can do a search and possibly work with the other Gunners on here and do some experimenting together.


 
Wasn't at all what I was picturing either!

I'm not sure how I feel about it.  The one thing I do like is that it would be super easy to fabricate in the garage.  The "slot" could easily be made with a drill and cut-off wheel/grinder.


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## avc8130 (Dec 16, 2012)

68dodgeramman said:


> Well, my ledge is not eroded badly, and when I ordered the center brick they didn't ask if it was. It just seemed that it was another option. Here are some pics of the shorter one. I think I'll have some made that fit on top of the ledge after reading your posts, thanks. Now I have another one for you; I've had water in the ash pan since I've gotten the boiler, about four years ago. I just replaced all the door seals and tightened everything where air might get in, I cleaned from the stack down. I took the fan off and the cyclone and thoroughly cleaned both. I started it last night and I immediately see water dripping from the ash pan. So this morning I went on the roof with my temp gauge and it says around 158 to 161 degrees. That's at the cap. I have about 12' to 15' of SS double walled insulated pipe running from the ceiling in the garage through the roof. And single walled SS pipe from the cyclone to the ceiling. Do you think insulating the single walled pipe will help, and if so, what do you use to do that? I'd rather not have to go out and buy all new insulated pipe now. Thanks again.


 

Were the steel nozzles cheaper than the masonry? 

Have you installed them yet?  Please keep us posted how they work out for you.

The water in the ash pan is from the flue gasses condensing in your connector.  How cold is your return water?  I had my cyclone fill with water once, but it was only when I was firing the boiler from dead cold.  How is your wood? 

ac


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## goosegunner (Dec 16, 2012)

The nozzle in my Econoburn will be glowing red at times. I am interested to hear what the steel does and how it holds up.  It would be nice to have just a plate if it could be placed on the refractory nozzle to help prolong it.

gg


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## Fred61 (Dec 16, 2012)

Several years back when I want over to AHONA to see the biomass operating and was exiting his boiler room I happened to trip on an object in the leaves. It was steel rods welded into a grid but looked like a pretzel. He wasn't going to tell me but he had tried to burn chips and his home made mesh didn't hold up very well.


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## infinitymike (Dec 16, 2012)

Don't feel bad. Your not alone.
I get water in my ash pan also. Not enough to drip out but enough to make the ashes like mud and my pan looks like yours,
It sounds like I have a similar set up. My WG is in an 2 car garage. For the most part it is complexly uninsulated. Except I did install roxul insulation and fire rated sheetrock on the walls and ceiling around the boiler.
It did  maintain 60* all last winter just from the radiant boiler heat.

I come straight off the cyclone with a 48" double wall telescoping  pipe into a ceiling thimble where it connects to two 36" ss double wall pipe.

I personally think its because I am in an uninsulated garage and the pipe cools off after shut down.
Just yesterday I went on the roof and disconnected the top section of pipe. It was very clean only a thin layer of black powder, so was the other section
and the section off the cyclone is just as clean.


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## infinitymike (Dec 16, 2012)

i am actually considering adding 6'-9' of pipe to get the cap 10' - 13' above the roof.
There are times it smokes alot, usually when I stir up the coals and reload, It could last for 5-10 minutes before it gasifies again
and I am thinking that it might keep the smoke from blowing right down to the ground and turning my neighborhood into a cloudy mess.

Right now the cap is about 12' above the ground so it would only be about 18-21' 
I don't know if that is even enough height.


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## muncybob (Dec 17, 2012)

I did have a problem with moisture in the pan, mostly when running oil. I now get a very small amount of moisture in the pan, just enough to make the bottom of the pan need a scrape to come clean. My remedy was to insulate the connecting pipe and the entire cyclone housing.


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## mikefrommaine (Dec 17, 2012)

Anyone have a pic of the ceramic nozzle for a woodgun? Does it have horizontal holes in it for secondary air? Or is it pretty much the same shape?


I tried looking on google images. Infinitymikes boiler is the second image. Avc's tractor made the cut as well but no pics of the nozzle I could find.


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## Fred61 (Dec 17, 2012)

mikefrommaine said:


> Anyone have a pic of the ceramic nozzle for a woodgun? Does it have horizontal holes in it for secondary air? Or is it pretty much the same shape?
> 
> 
> I tried looking on google images. Infinitymikes boiler is the second image. Avc's tractor made the cut as well but no pics of the nozzle I could find.


 Wood Gun does not have secondary air. Just one hell of a blast of primary air.


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## avc8130 (Dec 17, 2012)

mikefrommaine said:


> Anyone have a pic of the ceramic nozzle for a woodgun? Does it have horizontal holes in it for secondary air? Or is it pretty much the same shape?
> 
> 
> I tried looking on google images. Infinitymikes boiler is the second image. Avc's tractor made the cut as well but no pics of the nozzle I could find.


 
I consider my tractor to be a part of my Wood Gun.  LOL

Nothing special about the Wood Gun nozzles.  Just bricks with slots in them.

As Fred said, no secondary air in a Wood Gun. 

ac


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## muncybob (Dec 17, 2012)

mikefrommaine said:


> Anyone have a pic of the ceramic nozzle for a woodgun? Does it have horizontal holes in it for secondary air? Or is it pretty much the same shape?
> 
> 
> I tried looking on google images. Infinitymikes boiler is the second image. Avc's tractor made the cut as well but no pics of the nozzle I could find.


 
Here ya go.....


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## infinitymike (Dec 17, 2012)

mikefrommaine said:


> Anyone have a pic of the ceramic nozzle for a woodgun? Does it have horizontal holes in it for secondary air? Or is it pretty much the same shape?
> 
> 
> I tried looking on google images. Infinitymikes boiler is the second image. Avc's tractor made the cut as well but no pics of the nozzle I could find.


 
I tried looking on google images and didn't find either me or avc.
What did you type for a search?


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## mikefrommaine (Dec 18, 2012)

I google "wood gun ahs"

http://www.google.com/search?q=wood...mDKe90QHTloHIBA&ved=0CEQQsAQ&biw=1024&bih=672

Looks like you slipped to #4 overnight.


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## infinitymike (Dec 18, 2012)

That's pretty funny. There's actually several of my pictures in there. I think the one with the wood in the window is gasifiers.


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## avc8130 (Dec 18, 2012)

mikefrommaine said:


> I google "wood gun ahs"
> 
> http://www.google.com/search?q=wood gun ahs&hl=en&client=safari&tbo=u&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ei=jkvQUN3mDKe90QHTloHIBA&ved=0CEQQsAQ&biw=1024&bih=672
> 
> Looks like you slipped to #4 overnight.


 
...that's not a tractor, it's a skid steer 

ac


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## mikefrommaine (Dec 18, 2012)

I thought the kubota with The pallets of wood was yours?


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## avc8130 (Dec 18, 2012)

mikefrommaine said:


> I thought the kubota with The pallets of wood was yours?


 
Wow.  There are A LOT of my pictures in that mix.  The skid steer was also my picture.  I didn't see the Kubota pics since it was just the rear view.

ac


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## 711mhw (Dec 18, 2012)

avc8130 said:


> The "ledge" appears to be the Achilles heel to the lower refractory, which is a bit pricey to replace. I think what AHS has done, is simply put a steel nozzle spanning the entire gap, from the curved refractory edges. This would essentially eliminate the ledges function (holding the center bricks), but it would probably also cause them to erode whatever is left rather quick. That wouldn't really matter if they weren't being used any more.
> 
> How about a pic?
> 
> ac


This is what I understand.
I got 2 yrs out of my first center bricks, my "shelf" is good, just thought that the steel might last longer. There was another "gunner" on here that flame cut some out of some heavy plate, I wonder how ther are working out? He had pics. and it was about a year ago/


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## avc8130 (Dec 18, 2012)

I was anxiously anticipating a follow up from that fellow gunner too!


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## 68dodgeramman (Dec 21, 2012)

Sorry it took so long to respond but I've been working 14 hour days and longer lately. Doesn't leave a lot of time for emails and the internet, lol. Anyway they were $45 each and the size is about 15-11/16" x 6"  and 11-1/4" x 6". I'll try to post a drawing as soon as I get some a little time.


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## muncybob (Dec 28, 2012)

Well I guess I can't stretch the original nozzles any farther, too much hot coals falling thru them. Plan to replace this weekend. For anybody that has done it are there any don'ts involved. Seems a fairly simple drop in replacement but am wondering after 17 cords burned if the originals will be stubborn to come out?


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## Fred61 (Dec 28, 2012)

muncybob said:


> Well I guess I can't stretch the original nozzles any farther, too much hot coals falling thru them. Plan to replace this weekend. For anybody that has done it are there any don'ts involved. Seems a fairly simple drop in replacement but am wondering after 17 cords burned if the originals will be stubborn to come out?


 They should pull out fairly easy. Get or make a hook and pull them right out. Vacuum the ledge and drop the new ones in. If they bind, hand grind them on a concerete block or similar rough surface. They may have warped a little during firing. Don't force them.


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## avc8130 (Dec 28, 2012)

muncybob said:


> Well I guess I can't stretch the original nozzles any farther, too much hot coals falling thru them. Plan to replace this weekend. For anybody that has done it are there any don'ts involved. Seems a fairly simple drop in replacement but am wondering after 17 cords burned if the originals will be stubborn to come out?


 
You can pull the plug in the lower door and push up from the bottom. They should come out easy, the only thing holding them in might be some bound up ash.

17 cords?  How many heating seasons is that?  3?
ac


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## muncybob (Dec 28, 2012)

avc8130 said:


> You can pull the plug in the lower door and push up from the bottom. They should come out easy, the only thing holding them in might be some bound up ash.
> 
> 17 cords? How many heating seasons is that? 3?
> ac


 
About 3.5 seasons. Was hoping to go a full 4 but I'm having to clean ash/coals out of the lower refractory on an every other day basis now.


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## infinitymike (Dec 28, 2012)

Can you take a few pictures of what they look like. To be able to see the deterioration.


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## muncybob (Jan 1, 2013)

Since the Mrs had to work last night I stayed home with the dogs and we all behaved ourselves, so no headache this morning 
Decided to start on replacing the nozzle. Monitored the firebox all evening waiting for only coals in the box and then shut her down. Waited about an hour and started to clean out the box....still very warm in there and made mental note to not be so damn lazy and pick the off season to do this next time! Got it cleaned out except for some ash and used the hooks I made to try and pull up the nozzle. They were really wedged in there after 17 cords and I got nowhere. It was getting toward my bedtime so I decided to run oil last night hoping the firebox would cool down by morning. This was a good idea as the nozzle was only warm this morning compared to hot last night.

So, my first hour or so of 2013 was spent pushing from underneath the box, tugging from above the nozzle with the hooks and cursing at the nozzle. Was getting very little movement. Decided to use the handle of the cleaning tool by sticking it down the slots from above and pulling upwards. After awhile the nozzle was starting to break loose. Finally the front piece was starting to lift but it was coming out in pieces. That's how it went for the back piece too and I was down to a small section still lodged in against the back box wall. It took a lot of work to get that piece out as I was trying to not damage the ledge or the back wall. There is some deterioration on a small section of the ledge but overall it was in good condition. I have attached a pic of a section of the old nozzle and the new one in pace. The new brick stands about 1/6" above the sides so not sure if they made these a bit thicker than the originals.
	

		
			
		

		
	





After about an hour the nozzle was completely out and final clean up began. I was glad to see that the new nozzle width fit in fine. Laid in the smaller back piece first but the larger front piece was a bit too long to just drop in so I used a file and took off a small amount at a time until it slid into the slot.

This past weekend we were at a flea market and I saw some hay hooks. Should have picked them up as I think the removal would have gone much better with something like that. The hooks I made did not have enough of a lip nor were the handle easy to grasp. For those of you that do this in the future but are not aware of how the nozzle rests on the ledge be aware that you only want to be pulling up in the very center of the nozzle brick so as to not catch any part of the ledge......and, don't due this in the middle of the heating season!

Happy New Year to all!!


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## avc8130 (Jan 1, 2013)

Great job!

Those new nozzles look just like the ones that came with my 180.  The top surface is higher than the refractory cement on both sides.  The extra thickness should make them last a bit longer.  17 cord/3 seasons doesn't sound too bad to me.  Heck, the oil burner required $100 worth of maintenance annually if nothing even broke!

Happy New Year and happy Wood Gunning!

ac


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## infinitymike (Jan 1, 2013)

Wow they are really beat up! Unless that is the one that broke a bit. 
What type of wood were you burning? 
I heard and I think it was on this forum that its not a good idea to burn exclusively oak, unless it is super duper dry, because it has a very corrosive nature to it. It will eat up concrete and metal very quickly!
I hope that's not completely true since that is pretty much all I have stocked up for the next 2 years and since most of it isn't split yet I may be burning less then desirable moisture content. It's hard to get a couple three years ahead in my supply with only oak.


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## Fred61 (Jan 1, 2013)

Glad to see things worked out good for you. Im glad to see you went with the hook. Pushing from beneath as was suggested could chip other areas of the refractory if struck by a tool.


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## avc8130 (Jan 1, 2013)

infinitymike said:


> Wow they are really beat up! Unless that is the one that broke a bit.
> What type of wood were you burning?
> I heard and I think it was on this forum that its not a good idea to burn exclusively oak, unless it is super duper dry, because it has a very corrosive nature to it. It will eat up concrete and metal very quickly!
> I hope that's not completely true since that is pretty much all I have stocked up for the next 2 years and since most of it isn't split yet I may be burning less then desirable moisture content. It's hard to get a couple three years ahead in my supply with only oak.


 
I have the solution for you.  Bring 1 year's supply of oak out to me.  That will free up space for you to go find a year's supply of ash that will be ready next winter.  

See, I'm always trying to help.

ac


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## infinitymike (Jan 1, 2013)

avc8130 said:


> I have the solution for you.  Bring 1 year's supply of oak out to me.  That will free up space for you to go find a year's supply of ash that will be ready next winter.
> 
> See, I'm always trying to help.
> 
> ac



I could tell from the minute we meet you we're a caring and helpful guy! I'm loading up the trailer right now! Amd will be heading out in a little while. 

Anything for a fellow wood gunner


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## avc8130 (Jan 1, 2013)

infinitymike said:


> I could tell from the minute we meet you we're a caring and helpful guy! I'm loading up the trailer right now! Amd will be heading out in a little while.
> 
> Anything for a fellow wood gunner


 
I'll tell you what, I'll cover the tolls and have a cold beer ready when you get here .

ac


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## muncybob (Jan 1, 2013)

infinitymike said:


> Wow they are really beat up! Unless that is the one that broke a bit.
> What type of wood were you burning?
> I heard and I think it was on this forum that its not a good idea to burn exclusively oak, unless it is super duper dry, because it has a very corrosive nature to it. It will eat up concrete and metal very quickly!
> I hope that's not completely true since that is pretty much all I have stocked up for the next 2 years and since most of it isn't split yet I may be burning less then desirable moisture content. It's hard to get a couple three years ahead in my supply with only oak.


 
What parts did break were broken between the slots. That piece was fairly intact. You can see the reinforcement fibers in the cement.   Been burning mainly maple, cherry and other "medium" hardwoods. I have oak on hand but not ready until next year. I now have 3 years to make my own either steel or cast and knowing my nature it'll be 2 years and 11 months until I get around to it.


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## avc8130 (Jan 30, 2013)

68dodgeramman said:


> Sorry it took so long to respond but I've been working 14 hour days and longer lately. Doesn't leave a lot of time for emails and the internet, lol. Anyway they were $45 each and the size is about 15-11/16" x 6" and 11-1/4" x 6". I'll try to post a drawing as soon as I get some a little time.


 

Digging this back up to the top.

68dodgeramman,

Any updates on the steel nozzles?  Any pics installed? 

ac


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## CTFIRE (Jan 31, 2013)

avc8130 said:


> Digging this back up to the top.
> 
> 68dodgeramman,
> 
> ...


I also want an update if there is any beer left from Mike visiting.


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## infinitymike (Jan 31, 2013)

CTFIRE said:


> I also want an update if there is any beer left from Mike visiting.


There's no beer left and I never brought any oak! That AC guy is allright!


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## CTFIRE (Feb 1, 2013)

infinitymike said:


> There's no beer left and I never brought any oak! That AC guy is allright!


I want in on the next WG owners field trip


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