# cheap living/green



## flyingcow (Apr 26, 2009)

I've met this man once. Nice guy. Hopefully i post this link right.  If not someone with that can use one of these 'puter things please fix my post.
 He makes a lot of sense. Any body know who it is?  pop quiz.

www.bangordailynews.com/detail/104563.html


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## Flatbedford (Apr 29, 2009)

Works for me. I try to live green and cheap. Is using my 39 year old, non emission equipped, 7 mpg truck to collect firewood green? Driving the old truck is kinda like recycling, right? I only put about 1000 miles on it per year. If I spent $40,000 dollars to replace it with a new, cleaner, possibly more fuel efficient truck, and scrapped the old one would that be more green?


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## Highbeam (Apr 29, 2009)

If you didn't drive that truck, someone else would. Also, to make that new truck would consume vast resources.

Oh, I really disliked the article's style. Of course this is subjective but for me, it was hard to read and didn't accomplish or present anything significant. It started to become readworthy in a few places and then would go a different direction. Maybe I'm familiar with informational articles.


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## Flatbedford (Apr 29, 2009)

Where I live, If I wasn't driving this truck, it would be scrapped. Even the immigrant landscapers drive newer trucks. :lol: 
It was clearly an editorial rant rather than an actual informative article. The guy is no reporter or researcher.
I think that cheap vs green is an interesting angle. For example, I believe that my 39 year old truck is a much "greener" firewood hauler than a new truck when one considers, as you said, the resources involved in producing a new one. Materials have to be shipped all over the world to build it, it has to be shipped to me, it is full of plastic and other toxic materials. The costs (financial and environmental) to produce my old truck have been spread out over nearly 40 years and with minor maintenance will be spread out even further. I think he's trying to say that living cheaply and not consuming constantly might be more "green" than having the latest "green" stuff.


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## karri0n (Apr 29, 2009)

Most of the green products out there are exactly the same as always - corporation makes new products according to the latest fad.


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## Flatbedford (Apr 29, 2009)

In my opinion, for the most part, green and corporation can't be used together.


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## Titus (Apr 29, 2009)

Flatbedford said:
			
		

> The guy is no reporter or researcher.


Right on. Tom's a local guy up here in Maine who's been involved in home energy matters for some 30 years or so. He's got a Saturday radio show, sells reclaimed foam insulation, and heat storage tanks to use with your Tarm and similar wood boilers. Not originally from Maine, so I guess we'd still consider him a "Flatlander".  ;-P 



			
				Flatbedford said:
			
		

> I think he's trying to say that living cheaply and not consuming constantly might be more "green" than having the latest "green" stuff.


Ding.. ding. 
That's how I took it. Which is more green... insulating the house, putting on a sweater, and watching the old 19" television? Or shelling out $30,000 for some solar system and buying carbon credits while buying new flat-screen TVs and iPods all the time? 

Which way gets the tax credits?


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## Wet1 (Apr 30, 2009)

Titus said:
			
		

> Flatbedford said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Both for 2009/2010.


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## Flatbedford (Apr 30, 2009)

But no tax credit for simply putting on a sweater, or watching the old 19" TV. I think that is the point of the editorial.


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## daveswoodhauler (Apr 30, 2009)

[/quote]
Ding.. ding. 
That's how I took it. Which is more green... insulating the house, putting on a sweater, and watching the old 19" television? Or shelling out $30,000 for some solar system and buying carbon credits while buying new flat-screen TVs and iPods all the time? 

Which way gets the tax credits?[/quote]

We live pretty frugally, and have a clothesline, low def tv, all cfl's, cars paid for....family of 5 using about 450KWH a month.
I don't really like all the new "green" gadgets out there...such as folks driving their $45K SUV Hybrids that only get 21 mph...but, I think the Solar Panels is a good idea for some folks. Last year I looked into a PV system, and after the credits based on our income (not too high), home value (also, not to high), etc...I think we could have got a 4KW system installed for appx $13-$14K after the tax credits. (We didn't pull the trigger as money is very tight.....but I think in the right situation Solar can be a good idea)

I see folks wasting money on stuff thats "so called" green, and I sometimes laugh as they think they are being green, but their electricity ill is appx $300 a month as they like their hot tub at 117 degrees.....not opposed to hot tubs....just think some folks think they are green when they are not.

Good topic here.


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## flyingcow (Apr 30, 2009)

Damn impressive 450 kwh. I'm mildly happy with 750kwh with our family of 5. We try to keep stuff shut off when not in use. Use a clothesline, have drying racks in the house for winter. Use the dryer very minimal. Cfl's, but not a big fan of them.  



I like Toms article, makes alot of sense to me.


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## daveswoodhauler (Apr 30, 2009)

flyingcow said:
			
		

> Damn impressive 450 kwh. I'm mildly happy with 750kwh with our family of 5. We try to keep stuff shut off when not in use. Use a clothesline, have drying racks in the house for winter. Use the dryer very minimal. Cfl's, but not a big fan of them.
> 
> I like Toms article, makes alot of sense to me.



I liked the article too.

I tried the drying racks in the winter.....but the Mrs's didnt like my drawers spread out the living room 
My kids are small, 6,4 and 19 months....so once they get older I am sure the usage will go up. Replacing our fridge about 3 years ago made a "huge" difference.

Funny, not sure if your kids have video games (mine don't...working on that with the general though)...but I read an article that XBOX and Playstation 2-3 systems used on average of like $200 of electricity a year...and the Nintendo Wii only used about 10% of the electricity.....thought that was a pretty big difference. (I think that was on standby mode as well) Don't know much about the video game things.


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## daveswoodhauler (Apr 30, 2009)

[/quote]Funny, not sure if your kids have video games (mine don't...working on that with the general though)...but I read an article that XBOX and Playstation 2-3 systems used on average of like $200 of electricity a year...and the Nintendo Wii only used about 10% of the electricity.....thought that was a pretty big difference. (I think that was on standby mode as well) Don't know much about the video game things.[/quote]

Found it:

http://www.nrdc.org/energy/consoles/files/fconsoles.pdf

Not $200 a year, but I was surprised at how much they use


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## Bubbavh (Apr 30, 2009)

I think Tom may be related to Andy Rooney!
Grumpy and annoying!


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## Highbeam (Apr 30, 2009)

ilikewood said:
			
		

> Replacing our fridge about 3 years ago made a "huge" difference.



So tell us about this real quick. How old was the old one and how huge was the difference. I have an old fridge that seems to use very littel power according to the kill-a-watt so I am now waiting for it to die vs. upgrade. 

I'm at 1000KwH with all electric and 4 family members, this is less than 100$ here in the NW. 

Someone brought up hot tubs. Well now I have one and like it. Yes, it uses power but not as much as you might think. Like all things you need to have balance and choose some luxuries in life. Do we really need soapstone stoves and more than one light bulb in the bathroom? Do we really need to eat beef? mow our lawns? Instead I reduce my consumption in other areas to allow for some luxury. This means I will always be burning 1000KwH or so unless times became too tough and then I can pull the plug on the tub and the electric dryer.

It is nice to have chosen day to day expenses that can be eliminated vs. commitments like poor insulation, a single low mpg vehicle, or a high mortgage that you are stuck with.


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## flyingcow (Apr 30, 2009)

Funny, not sure if your kids have video games (mine don't...working on that with the general though)...but I read an article that XBOX and Playstation 2-3 systems used on average of like $200 of electricity a year...and the Nintendo Wii only used about 10% of the electricity.....thought that was a pretty big difference. (I think that was on standby mode as well) Don't know much about the video game things.[/quote]

Found it:

http://www.nrdc.org/energy/consoles/files/fconsoles.pdf

Not $200 a year, but I was surprised at how much they use[/quote]








-------------------We notice it...son has an X-box. It uses some juice, the fans on it are loud, sounds like a computer running, which i know it is.  But he generally keeps it turned off. we also have a Wii, but thats plugged into the power strip that we shut off when tv/vcr/dvd are not in use.


Thanks for the link, thats helpful when dealing with this stuff.


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## daveswoodhauler (Apr 30, 2009)

Highbeam, The Fridge we had was pretty old....I am going to say 20 years old or so. It was a basic unit, top freezer, no ice maker, water dispenser, etc...think it was 18 cf in size. 

We replaced it with a 20cf size, same deal, no water/ice maker, top freezer..and I would like to say that it was about a $10-$15 month difference....not huge, but when our bill is only $60-$70 a month it seemed like a big deal. (It was 3 years ago when I wasn't an energy hound like I am now)

Sounds like you have a great rate on electricity...we pay 18.2 cents KW here....so we are trying to keep the useage down. We have oil for heat/hot water...well pump is electric.

I wanted to get one of those meters too...but after been there for three years I know what my culprits are....washing machine that doesn't spin and get the water out...well pump that I really can't do anythig with, and my darn toaster that take like 10 minutes to toast and a microwave that takes 2 minutes to bearely heat up a small cup of hot water  I am going to replace all when they die, but the freaking microwave is really pissin me off lately 

I think like you do....I conserve to help costs/environment, but also to allow me some $$ for other things I enjoy. Right now, my wife stays home with our kids, so the money saved is basically a treat for the kids on a Friday night....Pizza and a movie or something like that. 

Last year we got one of those rainbarrels, and it works well for our smallgarden....funny, I didn;t realize how much electricity the well used until my kids were flooding the sandbox one day to bury their tonkas....and I couldnt understand why the electric meter was spinning so much 

On the hot tub issue....yes, I think its a nice luvery to have....mom in law has one and I love it after a hard day of cutting/splitting/stacking...but... my mother in law lives in our town by herself....has a hot tub...electric water heater too....primary heat is oil....he electric bill on average is $220-$250month....have tried to get her to stop renting the water heater and go to an oil fired..but she is set in her ways....and the coversion would be sortly for her as she is semi retired....she still complains about the electic bill though  I just keep the trap shut


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