# Chimney liner install pricing



## Ashful (Jun 13, 2012)

I got some pricing for pulling my gas insert and liners, and installing the new liner for my woodstove.  I have no problem with paying a fair price, so I'm just looking for a nod from the pro's here on this being a fair price.  I'm in southeastern PA.

Mantel shield:  $50 x 2 for my 48" wide wood lintel
chimney liner (6" x 25'):  $520
quick connector (6"):  $65
liner cap (screen / no wind guard):  $65
standard top plate:  $65
insulation kit:  $389
6" spark arrestor:  $0
labor:  $899
remove gas insert:  $150
level 2 inspection:  $300
=================
TOTAL:  $2553

I may pull the gas insert myself to save that $150, so just wanting to be sure everything else looks fair.  It's certainly more than I've paid for any other chimney liner, but this is the first insulated liner I've done (old chimney is stone with no clay liner, so they want to do an insulated liner), and the insulation adds $400.  The level 2 inspection is because it's a 240 year old chimney, and this company had a house fire in a similarly old chimney last year, due to unknown combustables running thru the chimney.

Thanks!


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## mellow (Jun 14, 2012)

What is level 2?  Do they inspect with a camera before installing the insulated liner?


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## Ashful (Jun 14, 2012)

Yep.  I guess their "level 1" is to stick their head in from both ends and look around, or perhaps use a mirror to see farther into the chimney.  "Level 2" is to lower a camera down into the chimney and look for any potential problems.  After their fire last year in a similarly old home, they're pretty adamant about doing this inspection.  They actually bring in an outside inspections company for this part of the job, perhaps to distribute or defer the liability.


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## TradEddie (Jun 14, 2012)

That inspection sounds like BS to me, installing the liner, especially an insulated one, means that the existing chimney is no longer exposed to significant heat.  It does need to be cleaned well before installing the liner.

Get some other quotes, I did, and saved almost $1000.  I used Gasworks in Malvern, very pleased with them.

TE


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## mellow (Jun 14, 2012)

Just food for thought,  I was charged $150 to send a camera down mine.  It is a very good thing to do and sometimes they can even give you the video of it if your into that sort of thing.

I did the camera for peace of mind,  then installed an insulated liner myself.


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## Ashful (Jun 14, 2012)

mellow said:


> Just food for thought, I was charged $150 to send a camera down mine. It is a very good thing to do and sometimes they can even give you the video of it if your into that sort of thing.
> 
> I did the camera for peace of mind, then installed an insulated liner myself.


 
Good to know.  I think the camera work might be more expensive in this case because they have to get WAY up there (cannot reach this chimney with a 40' ladder), and they're calling out a separate company to do it, not the same company that's doing the rest of the work.  I hate paying for stuff like that like I hate paying for insurance, but I think it would be foolish to skip it if there's any concern about the chimney construction, so I'll be going thru with it.  $300 is mighty cheap insurance when it comes to the possibility of a fire.


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## clemsonfor (Jun 15, 2012)

BUT the whole point of a liner it to eliminate any old or suspect chiney as well as to allow your device to function properly?


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## KarlP (Jun 15, 2012)

When I first bought my house in '99, I paid for a chimney sweep with a good reputation to professionally clean and then send a camera down my chimney looking for any cracked tiles or bad mortar joints.  What they did was run a brush up and down once, stick a Canon point and shoot through the thimble, snap four or five pictures, and hand me a huge bill.  By the time it came time to install a liner, I was a much smarter consumer and did it myself.


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## Ashful (Jun 15, 2012)

clemsonfor said:


> BUT the whole point of a liner it to eliminate any old or suspect chiney as well as to allow your device to function properly?


 
According to more than one local chimney sweep, they have found wood running right THRU some very old chimneys in this area. This particular stove shop had a customer with a serious fire last year, due to exactly this problem. They peered in from above and below before installing the liner, and did not see anything of concern, but that's apparently because the wood was charred completely black and was not easy to identify mid-chimney. In any case, the liner was up against it, and about a year after the install, finally got hot enough to set fire.'

Again... a very unlikely scenario, but $300 for the camera work is very cheap insurance to this owner of a 240 year old house.


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## mellow (Jun 15, 2012)

At that age of house you never know what you might reveal from the camera going down the flue,  I think it is a smart investment as well,  but I would call around to make sure you are not being gouged.


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## remkel (Jun 16, 2012)

My sweep ran a camera up and thank god he did. Almost fell over as I watched the images on the screen. I think he saved the video as an example for others.


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## Blue Vomit (Jun 16, 2012)

I'm no expert, but I think you could get 25' of a decent insulated liner for less than $900.
Good luck


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## bluedogz (Jun 16, 2012)

Blue Vomit said:


> I'm no expert, but I think you could get 25' of a decent insulated liner for less than $900.
> Good luck


 
My 30' kit from Rockford was under $900.  'Course, I had to feed Hogwildz.


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## Cross Cut Saw (Jun 17, 2012)

We had a 30' Chimney liner installed, it included the double wall stove pipe for $2500.

I had gotten a slightly less expensive quote but I felt the overall service from the guys I had install it was worth the difference.

http://www.mainecoastchimney.com/

I was ready to drop a pretty nice chunk of change on a stove he sells but because he knew we wanted something to burn full time and that would go all night he suggested the Progress Hybrid we bought.  He gave up several hundred dollars in profit to get us what we NEEDED, that's called integrity!

The other dealer who will remain unnamed was more than happy to sell us anything just to make the sale.


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## Cross Cut Saw (Jun 17, 2012)

Bath Maine Burner said:


> We had a 30' Chimney liner installed, it included the double wall stove pipe for $2500.


 
It also included creating a clean out which the chimney did not have and the wall thimble etc.  pretty much everything from the stove top to the chimney top installed.
It also came with a lifetime fully transferable warranty...


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## Armoured (Jun 17, 2012)

remkel said:


> My sweep ran a camera up and thank god he did. Almost fell over as I watched the images on the screen. I think he saved the video as an example for others.


 
So what did he find that was so notable?


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## mellow (Jun 19, 2012)

I know when they did mine they showed me the cracks in the terracotta and how much creosote was still in them,  the brush could not get into those cracks,  so the next chimney fire would have ignited what was in those cracks and possibly transferred to the house structure.


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## remkel (Jun 19, 2012)

Armoured said:


> So what did he find that was so notable?


Well,
First, we found a thick coating of glazed creosote from bottom to top. Then we found that the mortar between all the liner sections had come out. 

Final result was that I had an SS insulated liner installed and that my friends has made all the difference (oh, and replacing the old Vigilant with a new Jotul)


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## Ashful (Jun 20, 2012)

Well, this is interesting.  My liner install price just went way up.  My chimney is approximately 40 feet, and the internal flue is 18" x 18".  No problems there.  However (PROBLEM!), it necks down to 9" x 9" at the top, and the interior is completely WOOD in this area!  That's right, folks... they necked an 18" x 18" masonry flue down to 9" x 9" with wood timbers, at mid-attic height.  The exterior of the chimney is all masonry, but tapers from approximately 8' x 6' external down to 5' x 3' external at this point.  The upper part of the masonry stack is supported by wood timbers inside the chimney.

Who was saying the camera inspection was a waste of time?


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## mellow (Jun 20, 2012)

Now the question is,  with wood being exposed like that which liner manufacturer will support an insulated liner being put next to wood of that age?


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## Ashful (Jun 20, 2012)

Good question. The inspector has to talk with the installer (two separate companies), and do a little brainstorming. The inspector said the full code fix would be to remove the upper 10 feet of masonry stack, which takes you down into the attic thru a metal roof, and into an exterior stucco over stone wall, remove the timbers, build a new stack with new flue, and repair the raised seam metal roof to suit. All more than 40' off the ground, at a cost of perhaps more than $20,000. He's confident they can find a safe and much less costly solution, although he anticipates it will not be code, and will require the granting of a code variance. I think he'll be talking with the installer in the next day or two to kick around some options.


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## mellow (Jun 20, 2012)

If you are talking that much money you should look into Supaflu: http://www.supaflu.com/ .


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## Ashful (Jun 20, 2012)

mellow said:


> If you are talking that much money you should look into Supaflu: http://www.supaflu.com/ .


 
Perhaps an option, although considering it is wood timbers that necks the flue down from 18" to 9", I imagine even a cast lining might be a problem.  After all, it cannot be thicker than 1.5" if reducing 9" to 6", and it would be cast right on the wood.  Perhaps fine while in good shape, but likely due to crack as the wood exhibits seasonal movement year to year.

One idea the inspector tossed out in our quick conversation at the conclusion of the inspection was possible double-insulating a stainless liner, with two layers of fiberglass and foil insulation.  However, he's an inspector and not the installer, and the installer may have other ideas.


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## mellow (Jun 20, 2012)

I would still give supaflu a call,  they have worked on many old restoration projects and have probably come across this situation before.


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## Ashful (Jun 20, 2012)

Good idea.  I'll put them on my call list for tomorrow.  Thanks!


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## Ashful (Jun 20, 2012)

Got some photos of the inside of the fireplace and the flue tonight, as well as the outside.  Not the ones from the inspector (should get them later in the week), but just some I snapped myself while I'm waiting for the inspector's report. 

Exterior views.  Height from ground to top of chimney is over 45 feet.







My best attempt to photograph what's happening in the attic.  The stack first steps from approximately 8' x 6' to 6' x 4', and then eventually tapers up to the brick stack of 5' x 3'.  This is where all of the wood is supposedly inside the flue:






The exterior of the fireplace, after removing the old gas insert. Opening has been framed and tiled in for the gas insert, but will be 56" wide x 62" high after removing the new work.




Brick (old firebrick?) visible inside is not original, but some later addition, and only extends up inside the firebox to a height of about 72".  Here's a view looking up from the fireplace opening.  Sheet metal stud in top of photo is part of the surround for the gas insert, as with the 4" aluminum liner, both coming out soon.




 Looking up inside the chimney, can see not exactly a straight shot, which is nothing unusual for old chimneys.  What the photo doesn't show is that there appear to be several small caverns off either side of the chimney as you go up.  Some are probably thimbles at the second floor level, but others appear to be much larger than thimbles, and not at the right height for any particular floor.




A very interesting shot standing up inside the fireplace (actually standing on top of a cinder block inside the fireplace), facing the left interior wall of the fireplace.  The newer 2x4's in the extreme lower left are part of the surround from the gas insert, and the heavy wood lintel hewn at 45° can be seen above that on the lower left.  You can see where the brick liner stops right at my eye level, 72" off the floor.  More interesting is the 12" square wood box inset into the wall of the fireplace, peaking out just above the top course of firebrick, as well as the heavy wood timber just above that, supporting the stonework above.  There's no shortage of wood inside these old fireplaces.




More in another post... above the photo quota.


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## begreen (Jun 21, 2012)

Consider Duraliner. It's rated for zero clearance. I suggest 5.5" due to the height of the flue.
http://www.northlineexpress.com/category/DuraLiner-Chimney-Liner.asp


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## Ashful (Jun 21, 2012)

Thanks.  I'll suggest this as an option to the installer.  Why go small when your tall?  Seems to me draft potential is a function of height, so going smaller might cut draft volume a little, but increase flue velocity a whole lot.  Then again, maybe that's the goal...

Thanks!


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## DanCorcoran (Jun 21, 2012)

Stove manufacturers typically specify a certain diameter flue for a particular stove.  They also state that increasing the flue size beyond that diameter will reduce draft, not increase it.  I would infer that reducing flue size beyond that diameter will begin to choke off air supply to the stove, even though it may produce a great draft.


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## begreen (Jun 21, 2012)

The suggestion is based on the experience that folks have had dealing with too strong draft in very tall flues. Dropping down a little in size is effective.

Reading the stove installation requirements, one will see that many mfgs. state the chimney should be less than XX ft tall for this reason. A common cutoff point is 33ft.


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## clemsonfor (Jun 21, 2012)

!! Wow Look at that chinmey!! No wonder house fires were a common place back then Why wood, why not cut stone or metal? Yea i would at least have a Pro consult even if i chose to do the liner install myself.

I still think there has to be an insulated liner rated to go through that stuff.


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## begreen (Jun 21, 2012)

There is. I would use Duraliner and put an insulation sleeve in the areas with exposed wood.

http://www.duravent.com/Product.aspx?hProduct=6


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## mellow (Jun 21, 2012)

Good luck getting a rigid liner down that chimney.


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## begreen (Jun 21, 2012)

Doesn't have to be. They make it in rigid and flex, oval too. It's a nice, complete system.


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## Ashful (Jun 21, 2012)

begreen said:


> The suggestion is based on the experience that folks have had dealing with too strong draft in very tall flues. Dropping down a little in size is effective.
> 
> Reading the stove installation requirements, one will see that many mfgs. state the chimney should be less than XX ft tall for this reason. A common cutoff point is 33ft.


 
Good to know.  My chimney is 45' off the ground, but the height up from the stove is likely under 30 feet, since the stove itself is about 10' off the outside ground.  I'll know the exact length when I finally pull that 4" liner out (seen in the photos), but my eyeball tells me roughly 26 feet of liner will be needed.  That may put me back into 6"?


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## begreen (Jun 22, 2012)

Yes, for sure if it's 26ft instead of 40ft, stick with 6". Sounds like the mention of a 40ft flue was a red herring.


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## Ashful (Jun 28, 2012)

Spoke with Megan in tech support at Duraliner, and they do not make any zero-clearance liners for use with wood.  They do have liners rated for zero clearance with other fuels, but when used with wood there are minimum clearances.  What they do have, though, is a pour-in liner product called Thermix.  Basic process is to install a Ventinox flexible liner system, and then pour Thermix around it.  They can go as thin as 1" around the liner to combustables in a setup like mine.


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## Ashful (Jul 10, 2012)

Follow-up...

The inspector came up with a plan.  He now states the area where the wood timbers are placed inside the chimney (2.5 stories above the firebox, so hard to see), has a cross section close to 12" x 12".  He had previously stated 9" x 9", but I always believed that number was low.  Here's his plan:

1.  Remove cap and crown from chimney.
2.  Install 8" liner from top of firebox to top of chimney (approx. 25 feet).
3.  Pour Duravent Thermix around 8" liner, while keeping it centered as best as possible between wood components.
4.  Install insulated 6" liner inside 8" liner.

The chimney does make a bit of a jog in the area of the wood timbers, so I am a little concerned about anyone's ability to keep things centered away from the wood timbers in that area.  Worst case would be having the 8" flue up against the wood in the area where the chimney jogs, and then have the 6" tube pressed up tight against that, compressing the insulation in the area of the jog.  I guess we won't be able to really see how big a concern that is until we get the old cap off and can really get a good look down from the top.  My 40' ladder falls almost 10' short of making the chimney top, so it's too high to get to without multiple ladders or scaffolding.

Any words of wisdom?  Thinking this wood stove is going to be more expensive than the oil it's aimed at replacing, but there's more to having a stove than pure economics.


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## Hogwildz (Jul 10, 2012)

begreen said:


> Consider Duraliner. It's rated for zero clearance. I suggest 5.5" due to the height of the flue.
> http://www.northlineexpress.com/category/DuraLiner-Chimney-Liner.asp


Duraliner when I installed mine was rated 0 clearance to masonry. May want to check that again. With that wood in there. I would be insulating it anyways, at very least the bottom portion. and def a block off plate.


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## Hogwildz (Jul 10, 2012)

From Duraliner site:

Clearances for Duraflex:
0” clearance for gas, oil, and pellet
applications. 1” clearance to masonry for
wood-burning applications. Insulation is
required for 0” clearance to masonry for
wood-burning.


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## mellow (Jul 11, 2012)

Did you ever call the supaflu guys in your area? Watch the video on their website you will see they are able to put spacers in the balloon to keep clearances in check the whole way down before pouring the mix. If it was me I would feel safer going that route, not to mention it would probably help seal the wood so it would last longer.

Link to video:  http://www.supaflu.com/photo_video/photo_video.htm


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## Ashful (Jul 11, 2012)

No. I think it's time to do it, though. The more I think about this guy's solution, the more problems I have with it.

Thanks!

_edit:  Just contacted them.  Waiting on a reply._


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## Todd (Jul 11, 2012)

I had my chimney rebuilt last Summer and went the Supaflu route. After they busted out the 7x10" ID tiles it left a huge gap of about 12x16" between the brick. Instead of using a 6" bladder and pouring supaflue around that big gap they used a 10" bladder and poured a mix of concrete, supaflue and chunks of each as fillers (much cheaper than all supaflu). After a couple days they removed the 10" and inserted a 6" bladder and poured pure supaflue around it. They use metal springs wrapped around the bladder to keep it centered in the chimney and when they pull out the bladder the springs stay put. I think it really strengthened my chimney structure and draft is great.


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## Ashful (Jul 12, 2012)

Just got the price quote for the liner inside a liner proposal outlined above.  $9000

Ouch!


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## Todd (Jul 12, 2012)

Wow, that's pricey! I had the whole top 1/3 of my chimney rebuilt and a 20' supaflue poured for $4000.


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## Ashful (Jul 12, 2012)

If I could get the top of my chimney rebuild at a reasonable cost, I'd do it, and get that damn wood out of there.  Unfortunately, the two ROM estimates I received for that were both over $20,000.


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## mellow (Jul 12, 2012)

Ouch,  hopefully the supaflu estimate comes in cheaper.


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## clemsonfor (Jul 12, 2012)

At those prices id have to say id look at other options with a class A chimney and an external run of the chimney.


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## Ashful (Jul 13, 2012)

No reply from Supaflu.  I'll have to call them today.

Not sure a class A would be that much easier.  I have to get thru 2 feet of stone to get to the outside, no matter where I put that.  Also, with the exception of this one wall, the rest of the house is surrounded by a large porch, which would complicate the class A a bit.


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## clemsonfor (Jul 13, 2012)

Joful said:


> No reply from Supaflu. I'll have to call them today.
> 
> Not sure a class A would be that much easier. I have to get thru 2 feet of stone to get to the outside, no matter where I put that. Also, with the exception of this one wall, the rest of the house is surrounded by a large porch, which would complicate the class A a bit.


I think a jack hammer from both sides running a pipe through it and grouting around it on each side would be way cheaper, but i really dont know, just my thoughts?


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## mellow (Jul 13, 2012)

I know if it was me a Class A pipe even painted to match the house color sticking out the side of my historic house running all the way up to the roof would be out of the question.


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## begreen (Jul 13, 2012)

Heather needs to read their documentation. Try another tech at M&G. Their rigid liner is 0 clearance as is Duraliner flex, with an insulation sleeve. If you need flex, install insulation at the points where there is exposed wood. It will get this job done safely, legally and will keep the costs affordable.   http://www.duravent.com/Product.aspx?hProduct=6


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## Ashful (Jul 13, 2012)

mellow said:


> I know if it was me a Class A pipe even painted to match the house color sticking out the side of my historic house running all the way up to the roof would be out of the question.


 
My thoughts exactly, but I wasn't going to come out and say it.    If the costs are too high to justify using one of the existing flues, I'll either build another masonry stack or forget the second stove altogether. 



begreen said:


> Heather needs to read their documentation. Try another tech at M&G. Their rigid liner is 0 clearance as is Duraliner flex, with an insulation sleeve. If you need flex, install insulation at the points where there is exposed wood. It will get this job done safely, legally and will keep the costs affordable. http://www.duravent.com/Product.aspx?hProduct=6


 
Thanks, begreen.  I'll have to read thru that in detail tonight.  I think what she said was that they're rated for zero clearance in gas stove applications, but for woodburning they needed something like 2" to combustables.  I should read myself to verify.


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## begreen (Jul 13, 2012)

The quote I posted (and web page link) is for all-fuel Duraliner, not gas. Although possible, using that pipe for gas would be overkill and more expensive.

*DuraLiner is a double-wall, insulated all-fuel*
*reliner for masonry chimneys. DuraLiner is*
*listed and approved for installation with zero*
*clearance between the liner and masonry,*
*plus zero clearance between the masonry and*
*combustibles. The DuraLiner lining system*
*is intended for field installation into new or*
*existing masonry chimney used for natural*
*draft venting of gas, liquid and solid-fuel*
*fired residential type appliances in which*
*the maximum continuous flue gas outlet*
*temperatures do not exceed 1000°F/538°C*
*(UL 1777) or 1200°F/650°C (ULC S635).*
*DuraLiner is listed to the UL 1777 standard for*
*Chimney Liners, under the listing file number*
*MH14420. DuraLiner is also listed to the*
*Canadian Standards ULC S635 as a liner for*
*existing masonry chimneys, under the listing*
*file number MH14420. DuraLiner meets all the*
*thermal, mechanical and material requirements*
*of the UL1777 and ULC S635 standards.*


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## mellow (Jul 13, 2012)

Joful said:


> Just got the price quote for the liner inside a liner proposal outlined above. $9000


 
Did he breakdown the quote?  Curious what it would be for insulated 6" flex the whole way down now that you know that one section is 12x12.


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## clemsonfor (Jul 13, 2012)

I go with what the guys are saying for the zero clearance flex liner with the insulation.

As far as the class A chimney. Im practical. I like old things but dont have the money to own or maintain them. That said im practical and i could not spend $9k on a chimney and sounds like you are not, but i would not hesitate to put a class A in if it was me (you can always remove it). It was a sugestion is all yalls points are taken and i totally understand.


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## Ashful (Jul 13, 2012)

No offense taken or intended, clemsonfor. I understand exactly what you're saying, and class A may very well be where I end up, but I'm going to wear out every other alternative first! Our annual oil expense is roughly $5000. If we can even take $1500 per year off that total, then consider that amortized over 5 - 10 years, we can justify an expense of $7500 - $15,000 for this install. I believe in staying closer to a 5 year ammortization, but knowing oil prices will continue to climb over the next decade, I don't mind exceeding that $7500 number if needed.

Thanks for posting that, begreen. Looks like I need to make another call to Duraliner. Not sure why I got bad info on my first call.

Still waiting on a reply from Supaflu. They may be good, but they're not fast!


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## begreen (Jul 13, 2012)

Joful said:


> Thanks for posting that, begreen. Looks like I need to make another call to Duraliner. Not sure why I got bad info on my first call.


 
Maybe she's new on the job. Or maybe she's in India where woodstoves are not too common?

It doesn't really matter, the pipe is certified UL1777 for solid fuel and zero-clearance when installed correctly. You can take that to the inspecting authority.


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## clemsonfor (Jul 13, 2012)

I seriously dont see how you folks up there spend that kind of money for heat!!?? I make a decent living, meaning i make above the nation salery average. I save money each month over my expenses and consider my self bright and common sense wise as well as technical and book (only pointing this out so you dont think im some young kid morgauged and loaned more than i can ever pay off) smart.  But i honestly dont see how you can affor some of these expenses i have been reading lately in the north east to heat your home.  One guy $500month in oil you $5k a season There is no way i can afford that!  I bought a used $900 EPA insert have had it a season and a half and figure im about $100 shy of making my money back on savings(ignoring interest of course, which at this time is not very good).  I know here in SC we dont get that cold for extended periods but we get HOT especially lately, and we still dont have crazy bills like that for AC. I go crazy when i get north of $250/month.  I live in a 3k sqft home as well that is very under insulated. I do have dual HVAC units so i can keep the side we dont frequent warmer to save $$.


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## Ashful (Jul 13, 2012)

I think $5k/year is very much at the upper end of the spectrum for heating costs in my region, and that figure includes all my hot water. This is a big old house. My last house cost me less than $2k /year to heat.

We have a yearly average 5785 heating degree days, whereas Greenwood, SC has a yearly average of 3165, so one would expect our heating costs to be approximately 83% higher than yours, per square foot.


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## clemsonfor (Jul 14, 2012)

Oh i dont doubt its way colder there, my point is i just dont see how you afford to pay that  Its hotter here i gues we have more colling days but im just glad my AC bills are not in par. We were running AC in May here.  At least its not texas though!!


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## Ashful (Jul 17, 2012)

No reply from Supaflu, a week after filling out their web site contact form. Tried calling a few times, and always get the "we are currently helping other customers, please leave a message" automated response. Does anyone have first-hand experience with this company? Seems they're all franchised in this area. Not sure anyone is manning home base.

Also have a call into Duravent, to ask about the seemingly incorrect info I was given last time I called.  _edit:  begreen, reading again, I think Megan may have been correct in this situation.  They state zero clearance to masonry, with the masonry in contact with combustables.  Such as a stone chimney where timber framing is touching the chimney exterior.  In this case, I am told I have wood timbers running thru the flue itself._


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## Ashful (Jul 17, 2012)

Spoke with Dale in tech support at Duravent.  His statement:  "there is no way to line this chimney."  Basically, any chimney "liner" requires a properly constructed chimney, with no internal combustables.  They are only rated with respect to combustables touching the outside of the chimney, not having them inside the flue.  While he did not say my installer's proposal was unsafe, he did say it was not legal.  He said the same stands for (their) poured chimney product.

He said the only hope of lining a chimney with internal combustables would be to use a stand-alone chimney product, such as Duravent Duratech double-wall chimney.  This only requires 2" clearance to combustables.  Their 6" product has an 8" OD, and therefore requires a minimum 12" masonry flue.  Because it is completely rigid that 12" minimum chimney must also be straight.  Unfortunately, we know that is not the case with mine, which jogs in the area where the combustables exist.

Things are not looking good!


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## mellow (Jul 17, 2012)

Called the 800 # and get the same message,  maybe Todd can get you the guys name/number that installed his system and you can get to a local installer that way?


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## begreen (Jul 17, 2012)

Hmm, that is discouraging. Considering that you have good access on the lower part, what if metal heat shields with 1" spacing off the wood were installed? And is that an option by opening one side of the upper chimney where there is also exposed wood?


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## Todd (Jul 17, 2012)

I went the same route as you contacting Supaflu and they gave me a number to a local sweep/chimney guy who came out and gave me a bid. I think I had it done last April before it got too busy. I dont know if it will work for your situation with all that exposed wood but I'd keep trying to contact them.

If it can't be lined safely maybe you can cap it off, drill through the back of the fireplace to the outside and run class A up the side of the house and build a chase around it if you don't like the look of the pipe?


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## Ashful (Jul 17, 2012)

begreen said:


> Hmm, that is discouraging. Considering that you have good access on the lower part, what if metal heat shields with 1" spacing off the wood were installed? And is that an option by opening one side of the upper chimney where there is also exposed wood?


 
I've been pushing the original inspector (a masonry company) on opening up one side of the chimney, as you suggest.  He's not in favor of it, but I do think it could be the best way to go, at this point.  Might be time for a second opinion on that.  If we can get in there and see what we're doing, this is likely the best way to either remove or avoid the wood.



Todd said:


> I went the same route as you contacting Supaflu and they gave me a number to a local sweep/chimney guy who came out and gave me a bid. I think I had it done last April before it got too busy. I dont know if it will work for your situation with all that exposed wood but I'd keep trying to contact them.
> 
> If it can't be lined safely maybe you can cap it off, drill through the back of the fireplace to the outside and run class A up the side of the house and build a chase around it if you don't like the look of the pipe?


 
Thanks for trying.  I'll keep calling Supaflu.

An exterior chimney may be an option, but I'd be surprised if it's cheaper than dismantling and rebuilding the one I already have.  After all, it looks like all the problems are in the top 10 feet of this stack.

I do have some new photos from the original inspection, showing what does appear to be wood.  It's difficult to see exactly what's going on in there, though.  I might just put a camcorder on a long pole, and try to get some of my own video of the situation.  There's a 4" liner still hanging in there from the old gas insert, which is sure to be an obstacle, and I can't get it out without getting to the top of this chimney.


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## Ashful (Jul 17, 2012)

So, I put my video camera on my pruning pole, and ran it up the chimney.  Approximately 29 feet from the floor of the firebox to the top of the chimney.  This is what I paid the inspector to do (cost me $500 for the cleaning and inspection), and I found out in a conversation with him today that he never actually took any video or put any type of camera up thru the chimney.  His "level 2" inspection consisted only of looking up the chimney from below.

I did not see any wood.  The 4" liner from the gas insert is still in there, so I was trying to work around that.  I saw a lot of brick in the area where the inspector insisted there was wood, and I suppose it's possible he mistook this for wood, since he did not bother to put a camera up into the chimney and only inspected from below.  It's also possible something was there and I missed it due to working around the old chimney liner.

I intend to call the owner of the company tomorrow to submit a complaint.  I want them to send a different tech to do the job we paid for and did not receive.  This time I will be on site to be sure the job is done right.


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## Hogwildz (Jul 17, 2012)

Joful said:


> Spoke with Dale in tech support at Duravent. His statement: "there is no way to line this chimney." Basically, any chimney "liner" requires a properly constructed chimney, with no internal combustables. They are only rated with respect to combustables touching the outside of the chimney, not having them inside the flue. While he did not say my installer's proposal was unsafe, he did say it was not legal. He said the same stands for (their) poured chimney product.
> 
> He said the only hope of lining a chimney with internal combustables would be to use a stand-alone chimney product, such as Duravent Duratech double-wall chimney. This only requires 2" clearance to combustables. Their 6" product has an 8" OD, and therefore requires a minimum 12" masonry flue. Because it is completely rigid that 12" minimum chimney must also be straight. Unfortunately, we know that is not the case with mine, which jogs in the area where the combustables exist.
> 
> Things are not looking good!


 Just stretching here, but how about the Duratech double wall rigid in the area where the wood is, an insulated flex extending off that the remainder of both ways? I have the same double wall rigid in my sytem, with 5' of flex at the bottom to the insert.


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## Ashful (Jul 18, 2012)

Hogwildz said:


> Just stretching here, but how about the Duratech double wall rigid in the area where the wood is, an insulated flex extending off that the remainder of both ways? I have the same double wall rigid in my sytem, with 5' of flex at the bottom to the insert.


 
Perhaps... but read below!



Joful said:


> I did not see any wood.


 
Will be taking this up with the inspector's boss this morning.  We were charged (actually double-charged) for a job that I learned only yesterday was never done.  I can find the objects the inspector mentioned, but they are brick, not wood.  He would have easily seen this, had he actually done the inspection as billed.


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## mellow (Jul 18, 2012)

Wow, gotta love that. I would insist that they take the 4" liner out of the chimney for free and run a camera down. It is a shame there are so many bad chimney sweeping tech's (notice I didn't say companies) out there these days. I would tell them to send a new tech WITH his list of NCSG and CSIA certifications over ASAP.


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## Ashful (Jul 18, 2012)

mellow said:


> Wow, gotta love that. I would insist that they take the 4" liner out of the chimney for free and run a camera down. It is a shame there are so many bad chimney sweeping tech's (notice I didn't say companies) out there these days. I would tell them to send a new tech WITH his list of NCSG and CSIA certifications over ASAP.


 
Yep... that's exactly what I'm doing. Already have a call into the owner, who very likely knows about none of this. Hopefully he's a straight shooter. You will certainly be hearing about it if he's not.

_edit: Spoke with the business owner, and as I anticipated, he was surprised with what I had to say about the inspection and the quote. He offered right away to send another tech out to do the inspection and cleaning, as intended. He also said he will investigate the bill, and will be making a refund to us if we were charged for anything that is not being done, or was calculated in error._


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## Ashful (Jul 30, 2012)

Just had another tech out to redo the inspection, and there is NO WOOD in the chimney! After the difficult time the owner of this business gave me on our last phone call, it will be interesting to see how he responds to this.


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