# When do you need to install Blower Fan kit on free standing stove?



## Cueman (Feb 24, 2011)

Anyone have any experience with blower fan kits, good or bad? Anyone installed one and with they hadn't? How much difference might the $300 additional expense make in heating the house? The house is an open floor plan and vaulted ceiling so the stove has a lot of work to do.....

thanks.


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## Fsappo (Feb 24, 2011)

It depends a LOT on what kind of stove it is.  Some stoves thrive with a blower, some barely notice a difference.


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## Cueman (Feb 24, 2011)

Its an VC Encore 1450 non cat, attempting to heat 1800 sf mostly open floor plan.  The sales guy says "why wouldn't you want a blower?" Of course he's trying to make a sale, but it seems logical it would accelerate the process of filling the house with warm air.


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## Fsappo (Feb 24, 2011)

In my experience, that stove may be a little light for that save home.  With a stove like that, I tell my customers "try it without the blower if you want to save money up front.  You can always add it later"


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## BrowningBAR (Feb 24, 2011)

Franks said:
			
		

> In my experience, that stove may be a little light for that save home.  With a stove like that, I tell my customers "try it without the blower if you want to save money up front.  You can always add it later"



Agreed. The VC dealer by me will readily admit he has not installed one blower in either the Encore or Defiant in recent years.


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## Highbeam (Feb 24, 2011)

You can always buy one later. I also think that the layout of your home makes a difference, with the more open layouts not needing the covection blower as much.

I hate blowers, they are noisy.


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## WhitePine (Feb 24, 2011)

Highbeam said:
			
		

> You can always buy one later. I also think that the layout of your home makes a difference, with the more open layouts not needing the covection blower as much.
> 
> I hate blowers, they are noisy.



+1

We can heat 2,000 sf with no blower. Open floor plan. We use ceiling fans to stir the air. With a cathedral ceiling, you need either ceiling fans and/or a peak mounted supplies or return for the air handler, provided you have some sort of central HVAC unit that you can run on low fan only. Something has keep the air moving up there.


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## madison (Feb 24, 2011)

Added OEM blower after one yr without, made a big difference in our home - glad we did it, took 5 mins, two screws, only thing i would add is make sure it has adjustable fan speed.  With the blower IMHO it makes it easier in the shoulder season to mellow out the heat swings and control output, cpl splits and blower on low etc etc.


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## Cueman (Feb 24, 2011)

I don' want to hear that the stove is light for the house, supposedly it should heat up to 1900sf! Didn't think I needed the Defiant size.  True that leaves little reserve heating power for the stove, but 200sf is an adjacent room with a fireplace, so essentially I need to heat 1600sf.  I think WhitePine is right on the ceiling fan idea. I have half the main area with high ceilings and no fan.  The stove is under the half with low ceilings by plan, but maybe a fan up there would get things circulating better.  The cost is probably about the same without the noisy blower, unsightly cord and plug from the stove. Plus a ceiling fan there will be good either way. 

It just seems like the house is swallowing up the stove heat, and its not radiating out from the stove.  All the forced air registers are on the baseboard. My theory is that the stove is trying to heat the unfinished, uninsulated basement via air through all the duct work.  (That project is one of the many on my list to make the house warm and the wife happy!)


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## BrowningBAR (Feb 24, 2011)

CRC said:
			
		

> *I don' want to hear that the stove is light for the house, supposedly it should heat up to 1900sf!* Didn't think I needed the Defiant size.  True that leaves little reserve heating power for the stove, but 200sf is an adjacent room with a fireplace, so essentially I need to heat 1600sf.  I think WhitePine is right on the ceiling fan idea. I have half the main area with high ceilings and no fan.  The stove is under the half with low ceilings by plan, but maybe a fan up there would get things circulating better.  The cost is probably about the same without the noisy blower, unsightly cord and plug from the stove. Plus a ceiling fan there will be good either way.
> 
> It just seems like the house is swallowing up the stove heat, and its not radiating out from the stove.  All the forced air registers are on the baseboard. My theory is that the stove is trying to heat the unfinished, uninsulated basement via air through all the duct work.  (That project is one of the many on my list to make the house warm and the wife happy!)




You may not want to hear it, but it is true. For your zone you are at the upper area of what that stove can heat. And then you need to factor in stove location, floorplan of the house, and insulation.


Additionally, what temps are you running the stove at?


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## Cueman (Feb 24, 2011)

Yes the house has some work to be done to tighten up some major weatherization issues, which I'm working on, and every bit will help in that department.  

The temps I'm running are from 500 to 650 stove top behind the top load griddle. I've peaked it out at 680, but it seems to naturally settle into the 500  to 550 range as the load is burning down to a coal bed. The manual doesn't give safe op temps for this stove. But it says break in fires should not exceed 500, so one can assume a normal fire could safely range well above 500.  

Having grown up with stoves, my instinct tells me 700 is about as hot as I would want to see this stove, and only briefly. Of course overfiring ain't great. My other issue is I can't yet read flu gas temps as I need a probe type for my double wall connector.  Last time it approached 700, the connector pipe was talking to me a little bit telling me to reign it in a touch.  

I've only had the stove for a week now, so I'm assuming that is not enough time to accumulate enough creosote for a potential problem. I plan to service the pipe work once a year. Anymore than that and you may as well give up wood burning.


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## DanCorcoran (Feb 24, 2011)

My experience has been that the blower brings warm air into the room sooner, causing lower stove and stack temperatures, but it doesn't really circulate the warmth in the room (speeds up the warming process, if you will).  Once my stove and room warm up, I turn off the blower.


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## Cueman (Feb 24, 2011)

That make sense Dan, you start to feel the heat as the fire is getting going.
Does the blower really effect the stove/stack temps? Or do you mean that you run with lower temps because the blower is getting your room temp where you want it, and thus you don't need to crank up the stove as much. I'm not sure the blower could alter internal stove temps could it?


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## Fsappo (Feb 24, 2011)

BrowningBAR said:
			
		

> CRC said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Any sales person that tells you "this brochure says the stove will heat up to 1900 square feet and you have 1900 square feet so this is the stove for you" should scare the hell out of you.  Where you live, if you want real heat and an overnight burn, you want a 3 cubic foot firebox.  Something rated at 2500+ square feet.


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## fran35 (Feb 24, 2011)

I bought the blower with my stove and I have been less than impressed. The blower seems to bring the stove temp down way too quickly. I feel like a cheap floor fan pointed at the stove does the same thing for about $170 less. The one good thing about the blower is when I overload the firebox or leave the air on too long and the box is starting to run away. All I have to do is turn the blower on high and that will usually bring the temp down a few hudred degrees in a short time period


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## Cueman (Feb 24, 2011)

I did my research from VT castings web site, spec sheets ect. It wasn't a sales guy telling me anything.  Basically I did the research, then went to the store and ordered my stove.  So if its too small, its my own damn fault.  And furthermore the firebox is 2.5cf, so your talking about .5cf making the difference! I don't think so!

I appreciate the input. 
So here are my options in order of least to most likely courses of action.
1. Take it out trade it in for larger stove, take a huge hit on selling the used one and buying more expensive one and looking like an ass in the process.
2. Move the stove to a central wall (where the wife won't want it), incur the costs and time of that project and look like an ass in the process.
3. Install blower fan, insulation improvements to house.
4. Ceiling fan on cathedral, insulation improvements to house.
5. Fire up the saw, and start felling for next years wood supply, continue to improve the house.

Ok so maybe I could have benefited from a larger stove, but I plan to add an insert in the future to the fireplace that's in a wing of the house. I think the two fireboxes in concert will make a nice improvement.  And keeping in mind the wood is supplemental, not primary, so an overnight burn is not that important. I wish I lived in a nice cabin that used only wood. Some day.....


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## Creature (Feb 24, 2011)

For me it works like this:

When I start the stove and want the living room to warm up fast, I turn it on (or let it auto-start). 

Once it's warm I turn it off so upstairs warms up, since the stove is close to the stairs.

Works for me, but I haven't had Battenkiller over for an in-depth analysis :lol:


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## henkmeuzelaar (Feb 24, 2011)

CRC said:
			
		

> That make sense Dan, you start to feel the heat as the fire is getting going.
> Does the blower really effect the stove/stack temps? *Or do you mean that you run with lower temps because the blower is getting your room temp where you want it, and thus you don't need to crank up the stove as much. I'm not sure the blower could alter internal stove temps could it?*



Dan's observations do make a lot of sense to me as well.  Basically, once you are achieving a near-complete burn rate of Y pounds of well-seasoned wood per hour, you will roughly be producing Y x 6000 btu per hour and all that thermal energy will need to go somewhere. 

For the sake of argument, let's assume that the OP's VC non-cat woodstove with its nice large glass window might well send about 15-20% of that energy into the room by direct radiation plus 40-50% by convection, with the remaining 30-45 % going up the chimney, thus warming the flue and the top part of the chimney.  Now let's assume that of the total surface area of the stove capable of transferring heat to the room air by convection (including any special convection pipes and even the hot glass window) 2/3 is more or less vertical and 1/3 is more or less horizontal.

The vertical areas are likely to do well in creating spontaneous convection flows, whereas the more horizontal areas are typically much less effective in doing so. Now add a blower set that creates a nice forced air flow over the horizontal areas and you can expect a significant increase in total convective heat transfer to the room. However, since switching the blower on does not (immediately) affect the total amount of heat produced by the wood being burned less energy will be available to go up the flue and chimney. Hence, they are likely to be a bit mcooler. Moreover, since the firebox is transferring more heat to the room, the entire box may well end up burning a bit cooler. 

If, on the other hand, the blower is relatively ineffective (e.g. by mostly producing forced convection over surfaces and through tubes already producing strong spontaneous convection flows) one would not expect to see much of a change in flue and firebox temperatures.

Henk


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## Cueman (Feb 25, 2011)

Thanks Henk,
That's a good scientific way of looking at the issue. Its going to take me a few more weeks of burning to dial in my situation.  I think I am losing a lot of convection from the flue collar heat shield and the double wall connector pipe. But since my stove is slightly underpowered for the WHOLE house, I might start with a ceiling fan to get things moving. It seems just by creating some air current that counters the natural draft of the house, might work well.  My house seems to have a strong chimney effect, in which cooler air is drawn up from the basement and out the attic as warmer air.  Compound that with needed upgrades to weatherization, lack of fans, large windows, ect. 
In fact my Encore is not under performing, but my house is out performing the heat benefit, and probably would be the same situation with the largest firebox you can buy. 

So its clear what needs to happen. I'll try one thing at a time, and probably resort to the $300 blower fan kit for that stove as the last resort if nothing else works.


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## henkmeuzelaar (Feb 25, 2011)

That sounds like a sensible approach.

One other factor to consider, perhaps, is wood density. Although one pound of dry wood pretty much produces the same amount of BTUs no matter
which type of wood you use, the same is not true per cubic foot. So, if you find your stove to be a little on the small side you should be able
to make up for that 1/2 cubic ft difference you mentioned by selecting relatively dense hardwood (if available)....

Henk


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## DanCorcoran (Feb 25, 2011)

My experience is the same as Fran35's: stove temperature goes down noticeably with the blower on, but that only makes sense since the blower is cooling the stove more rapidly to put more heat into the room in a shorter time.  This hasn't been a problem for me, though, so I wouldn't say it happens "too quickly".


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## Jimbob (Feb 25, 2011)

CRC said:
			
		

> How much difference might the $300 additional expense make in heating the house?



One of these would work, be a LOT quieter, and cheaper, too:
http://www.princessauto.com/surplus/electrical/fans/8012919-4-3/4-square-fan


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## Cueman (Feb 25, 2011)

Jimbob, those are great little fans! I grew up with them as we heated with wood during the oil crisis days of the late 70s and early 80s. We had one in every door jamb from room to room with two wood stoves in the house front and back. 

I've been looking for one and just told my wife about them, saying they don't make em like that anymore. I got a new age version at Lowes and just returned it because it was junk in a box that looked pretty. Interesting how much junk they sell at the Box stores that appears to be quality but just aint.

This is good for room to room applications if your floor plan is broken and divided, but frankly in an open room with vaulted ceilings I think you're pissin' in the wind with a fan like that....

Dan, I suppose it doesn't matter if your stove temp goes down with the blower if your room temp goes up! That's what were shooting for. I'll put you down in the pro for blower fan camp....

Henk we have too many damn Oak trees in RI, so good burnin' the hardwoods. Some maple, little birch, little bit of other varieties.  I got a cord of real nice green oak, hope to be ready for next fall.  And some nice 40 to 50' oaks about 10' from my chimney should hit the ground soon, run through my saw and go up the chimney next year or year after that! 

Franks, I appreciate where your coming from on the stove advice. But I also know first hand that anywhere of north of I 90 upstate NY has some of the most brutal winters in the lower 48. And if your lucky enough to be in the snow belt (I'd bet you are) you get no break.  Rhode Island this year has had a real winter, but probably feel like a South Carolina winter for you for comparison. So I'm just trying to down play my undersized stove for my local climate. Any stove with the Vermont name should be able to handle Rhode Island for goodness sakes!


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## Lumber-Jack (Feb 25, 2011)

Franks could be right that "depends a LOT on what kind of stove it is.", but I would think any wood stove is gona benefit from some conductive air flow. I know with my Regency F2400 the blower makes a huge difference on how much heat I get out of the stove. If we hang out in the stove room (also the living room), we shut the blower off. One reason is of course it's quieter, but also so we don't get cooked out of the room. We always turn it on at night when we go to bed though, to get the most out of the stove. 
We have a ceiling fan in the room which helps circulate and moderate the heat in the room, but it doesn't get the heat out of the stove nearly as effectively as the blower.
$300 is a little steep in my opinion though, there are cheaper after market blowers out there that I think can be had for about $100.
When I bought my wood stove they had a sale on where they were throwing in the blower, so the decision to get it was a no brainer for me.


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