# Stihl MS 290 Lemon



## Clodhopper (Jan 19, 2015)

Here's a little rant that I'll conclude with a request for suggestions for a better saw.  I bought this 290 less than 3 years ago and it has never been a good saw.  I got it after I thought my 24 year old 029 seized up (turned out to be a piece of the muffler fell into the cylinder while I was cutting overhead).  After I fixed the 029 I went back to running that most of the time because it runs better.  It never seemed like anyone could get the carb on the 290 adjusted to where it would keep running if you set it down for 30 seconds, unless it was set so the chain ran all the time.  Plus it would stall if I didn't take it real easy with the throttle.  Which, with all the restarting, it didn't come as a big surprise that the recoil failed in a way that meant replacing the whole recoil unit (a week after the warranty was up).  This fall I'd had enough of the carb problem again and took it back in.  The dealer said it needed a new one so I went with that.  Still ran poorly, so I took it back in last week.  They just called me to say that the cylinder wall is badly scored (what would cause this?) and it will either need a rebuild, or I might be better to just buy a new saw.  This saw has seen so little use that it is only on it's second, or maybe, third chain.  The service guy says Stihl won't do a thing to stand behind the saw since it is out of warranty.  Even the guys in the dealer's shop admit that Stihl saws ain't what they used to be.

So long story short, I think I'm done with Stihl saws, although I am toying with the idea of buying an older used one.  I think I'd like to get something with a little more power.  Anyone have any suggestions as to where to go from here.  I use it to cut up a tri axle of logs per year plus for regular use around the farm.  I see there is a Stihl 034 AV SUPER on my local craigslist that I'm thinking of looking at.
Thanks for any advice, and for putting up with the rant.
Pete


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## salecker (Jan 19, 2015)

Hi Clodhopper
 The saws you have are homeowner saws.But they are OK saws there are lots out there making firewood.The used one you are interested in is a Pro saw.The difference is the construction of the saw.Pro saws you can remove the cylinder without taking the complete saw apart.
 All saws that are Pro Grade saws will have that feature.If you don't work on your own saws then you should find the best dealer and get a saw from them.
 A couple of other makes are Echo,Dolmar/Makita,and of course Husky.
 If you are done with the Stihl saws and want to get rid of your scored saw let me know.
 If you repair your own saws you can get complete engine assembly for your 290,where you just use the external parts of your old saw.Most parts should interchange with your 029 from you 290.
 Good Luck 
 Thomas


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## lindnova (Jan 19, 2015)

Sounds like you either got a lemon or the saw wasn't properly tuned.  Probably running lean which caused the cylinder scoring.  Actually sounds like a tuning problem - didn't the dealer tune the saw correctly??

A lot of guys are praising Echo for the best bang for the buck these days.  I know they are good saws, but I don't have any dealers here.


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## D8Chumley (Jan 19, 2015)

I really like my Echo 590 so far and it is reasonably priced. I also like my Stihls but they are older except the lil 170. 590 comes with 5 year warranty also


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## Mag Craft (Jan 19, 2015)

If you are not afraid of older saws try a Husqvarna 272.    You will not be disappointed.


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## duramaxman05 (Jan 19, 2015)

A stihl 290 is a farm and ranch saw. A step above homeowner. That is odd the 290 is like that because they are actually pretty good saws. My dad has a 029 super and has had it at least 16 or 17 years and have had no problems at all and it has cut a lot of wood. I have always been a stihl fan but have notice the quality for the money has gone down hill. Im not saying my 441 is bad by any means, but with a new price tag of $950, stihl is getting a little over priced. My father in law has used dolmar saws for years so i decided to buy a ps421 and couldnt be happier. The price was outstanding for the quality and power of the little beast. It will definately give a 290 a run for its money. So it doesnt hurt to shop around and i have been around still all my life.


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## TreePointer (Jan 19, 2015)

I'm surprised about your 290.  While I'm not a fan of them for their lower power-to-weight, they are very durable and reliable.  They've never given me issues.  If properly tuned from the beginning and using quality fuel mix they should last a long time.  Believe it or not, some dealers aren't as good at tuning saws as others.  I'd look to another Stihl dealer.

Lots of folks perform a muffler mod on these, but you have to pull the limiter caps on the carb screws to get it tuned properly.

If the saw needs a new P&C, I'd get the kit form Baileys to make it a 390.

http://www.baileysonline.com/Chains...Stihl-Chainsaws-029-039-MS290-MS310-MS390.axd


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## The Weimar (Jan 20, 2015)

Not a fan of the smaller Stihl saws, as I have had a bunch and they just haven't been as powerful/reliable as the little husky's. 
The big Stihls are awesome, but I think you get what you pay for. My rule of thumb (more of a guideline) stick with the small Husqvarna and the Big Stihl.
my 10 cents worth of free opinion......


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## 7acres (Jan 20, 2015)

Clodhopper said:


> Here's a little rant that I'll conclude with a request for suggestions for a better saw.  I bought this 290 less than 3 years ago and it has never been a good saw.  I got it after I thought my 24 year old 029 seized up (turned out to be a piece of the muffler fell into the cylinder while I was cutting overhead).  After I fixed the 029 I went back to running that most of the time because it runs better.  It never seemed like anyone could get the carb on the 290 adjusted to where it would keep running if you set it down for 30 seconds, unless it was set so the chain ran all the time.  Plus it would stall if I didn't take it real easy with the throttle.  Which, with all the restarting, it didn't come as a big surprise that the recoil failed in a way that meant replacing the whole recoil unit (a week after the warranty was up).  This fall I'd had enough of the carb problem again and took it back in.  The dealer said it needed a new one so I went with that.  Still ran poorly, so I took it back in last week.  They just called me to say that the cylinder wall is badly scored (what would cause this?) and it will either need a rebuild, or I might be better to just buy a new saw.  This saw has seen so little use that it is only on it's second, or maybe, third chain.  The service guy says Stihl won't do a thing to stand behind the saw since it is out of warranty.  Even the guys in the dealer's shop admit that Stihl saws ain't what they used to be.
> 
> So long story short, I think I'm done with Stihl saws, although I am toying with the idea of buying an older used one.  I think I'd like to get something with a little more power.  Anyone have any suggestions as to where to go from here.  I use it to cut up a tri axle of logs per year plus for regular use around the farm.  I see there is a Stihl 034 AV SUPER on my local craigslist that I'm thinking of looking at.
> Thanks for any advice, and for putting up with the rant.
> Pete



Nothing worse than heading out wondering if your saw will embarrass you. Your 290 experience sounds exactly like my 290 I bought off CL. Mine was eventually stolen. Since then I only buy pro saws. I only have two saws but they are impressive and take care of business for all my needs. Never any issues. I love my pro saws.


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## Clodhopper (Jan 20, 2015)

Thanks for all the advice.  I'm starting to realize that for a guy who spends a fair amount of time running a saw, I don't know a whole lot about them.  I am most likely going to get one of the Bailey kits that a couple of you mentioned and see how I make out with that.  Any suggestions on where to learn how to properly tune the saw after I get it back together?  The 029 that I have I never needed to touch the carb adjustment, so I didn't.  It's even still has the original spark plug.  I did screw around with the carb on the 290 a little after reading up about it in the manual, but was never able to make it run any better, so I tried to put it back where it was before I started.
Pete


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## Dairyman (Jan 21, 2015)

Good luck on your venture down the rabbit hole. Here's a good link on saw tuning.

http://www.madsens1.com/saw_carb_tune.htm


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## Jon1270 (Jan 21, 2015)

Clodhopper said:


> I did screw around with the carb on the 290 a little after reading up about it in the manual, but was never able to make it run any better, so I tried to put it back where it was before I started.



Unfortunately there is every possibility that you caused the engine failure by tuning it a bit too lean. 

The basic sequence of tuning steps suggested by Madsen's is fine, but I never found their audio recordings to be much help at all.  I can tune most saws by ear now, but for a while I had no idea how to recognize the "four-stroking" sound you're supposed to listen for.  It took a while, but a year or so ago I finally found a YT video that made it more obvious.  I'll post a link if I can track it down. 

If you get frustrated wondering why so many people on chainsaw enthusiast's sites seem to find it so easy, remember that the saws they're typically tuning are easier to deal with. Small saws, rev-limiting ignition coils and the catalytic / baffled mufflers common on unmodified newer saws all make it harder to do.

Something to keep in mind is that newer saws (like your 290) are manufactured with stops that limit how far you can turn the carburetor screws, and those stops make it harder to tune by ear.  Most people knowledgeable about working on small engines will mutter some slur about the EPA and then tell you to remove or modify those stops/limiters to facilitate proper tuning.


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## Fiziksgeek (Jan 21, 2015)

It happens, every manufacturer is capable of building a lemon, some build more than others. Leave's a bad taste in  your mouth, but doesn't mean the brand is no good. 

I bought a new Husqvarana 562 a couple years ago, and it died after just a couple tanks of gas. Dealer diagnosed a lean seizure, called it a lemon, and gave me a new one that's been going strong for nearly 3 years now.


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## duramaxman05 (Jan 21, 2015)

Fiziksgeek said:


> It happens, every manufacturer is capable of building a lemon, some build more than others. Leave's a bad taste in  your mouth, but doesn't mean the brand is no good.
> 
> I bought a new Husqvarana 562 a couple years ago, and it died after just a couple tanks of gas. Dealer diagnosed a lean seizure, called it a lemon, and gave me a new one that's been going strong for nearly 3 years now.


Now thats a good dealer


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## TreePointer (Jan 21, 2015)

Since the dealer likely knew about the faulty carb issues on early AutoTune models, the dealer had little choice but to take it back and especially if it were still in the warranty period.


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## Timberwolf530 (Jan 22, 2015)

Go check out the 034 Super (Same as 036, MS 360). Awesome power to weight ratio. It will pull a 20" chain through anything, & not breathe hard. I have an 034, & I love it. You can swap the cylinder & piston on these saws without cracking them open too. Parts are readily available. I love mine


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## Clodhopper (Jan 22, 2015)

Sorry to keep beating this horse, but what would be considered low compression on this saw?  The service guy told me that the cylinder was scored and that it had low compression.  When I took the muffler off I could see what was maybe a little scoring, and if I am testing compression correctly (pulled the cord till the gage stopped going up, maybe 5 or 6 times) I came up with 150lb warm, which is about 30lb higher than my 24 year old 029 that runs great.  I'd love any advice on where to go from here.


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## Jon1270 (Jan 22, 2015)

150 should be fine.


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## CRE10 (Jan 22, 2015)

I would get a digital tach. I think the 290's turn 10.5.


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## Timberwolf530 (Jan 22, 2015)

Clodhopper said:


> Sorry to keep beating this horse, but what would be considered low compression on this saw?  The service guy told me that the cylinder was scored and that it had low compression.  When I took the muffler off I could see what was maybe a little scoring, and if I am testing compression correctly (pulled the cord till the gage stopped going up, maybe 5 or 6 times) I came up with 150lb warm, which is about 30lb higher than my 24 year old 029 that runs great.  I'd love any advice on where to go from here.


If your 029 is at 120, it's probably getting close to rebuild time. The good news is that parts are still easy to get for them. 150 lbs is good, but the problem is that if its scored, it will continue to get worse. Depending on the severity, you may be able to hone it & put in new rings, but that's the exception, not the rule. Personally, I'd say if you can't do the work yourself, you'd be better off finding a guy on Craigslist who rebuilds saws & swap your 290 & some cash for one that he's rebuilt. There's like 2 guys around where I live that do that.   The 034 Super would be a great one to get. They're beasts for their size........or trade him the junk 290 in trade for making your 029 like new again.


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## Oldman47 (Jan 22, 2015)

Check available over sized rings for your model. A bore and hone to an oversize gives you a bit more displacement and just needs to be broken in. I have never done it on a chainsaw but have used oversize bores on old school 2 stroke motorcycles. They do work fine.


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## Jon1270 (Jan 22, 2015)

Oldman47 said:


> Check available over sized rings for your model. A bore and hone to an oversize gives you a bit more displacement and just needs to be broken in. I have never done it on a chainsaw but have used oversize bores on old school 2 stroke motorcycles. They do work fine.



Not feasible. Chainsaw cylinders are plated. Boring one out would destroy it.


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## Clodhopper (Jan 22, 2015)

I'm not convinced that this isn't a carburetor adjustment issue.  I don't know much about tuning a saw yet, and I'm suspicious that the service guy that's been working on it doesn't either.  I've got a tach ordered, and have been reading up as much as I can on carb adjustment.  Watched some youtube videos as well.  If anybody got good sources for this info I'd like to see them.  The manual says that the max RPM is 13,500.  Is it safe to assume that if I keep the high setting adjusted below that that the saw will not be set too lean?  I'm not too confident that I am going to be able to tune it by ear.
I ran the saw for about a half hour this afternoon cutting up some Ash logs, and it ran pretty well until I'd set it down for a minute or so, then it seemed like it was loaded up when I'd hit the throttle.  As long as I took it easy with that first gunning it wouldn't stall.  It's fine when I let off the throttle for the 5 seconds it takes to move down to the next cut.
Thanks again for the help.


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## Jon1270 (Jan 22, 2015)

That sounds like a low speed mixture problem. The low speed mixture screw is the one closer to the cylinder, further from the air filter. If it's loading up at idle, try leaning it out by turning that screw clockwise a bit.


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## Jon1270 (Jan 22, 2015)

Note that the low- speed adjustment affects the high-speed as well, so after you get it idling and accelerating well you might need to richen the high speed mixture a touch to compensate.


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## mark cline (Jan 25, 2015)

I'm going to throw this out there and see what it stirs up.Newer saws recommend a 50:1 fuel to oil ratio. This is one of the biggest problems , along with the ethanol in the gas now a days. The reason for a  50:1 ratio is to cut down on 2 stroke emissions , an environmental issue  Using a 32:1 ratio will extend the life of your saw 10X over. Your saw may not have the peak rpm that the saw maker states , but it will  cut  quite fast as long as you keep a sharp chain on the saw.  . Most people may never have a problem with 50:1 ,  if you always use fresh gas , but the few times you buy cheaper quality oil or use old gas in a saw , you run into trouble. Once the cylinder gets a little scratch , its down hill from there. 
Ethanol in the fuel will destroy a saw and or carb faster than any other factor.  Never , never leave gas in a saw even if its for a few days . The ethanol is hydroscopic, means that it absorbs water . Ever see the white film or corrosion on aluminum? That is what the little passages in the carb , collect over time . You can't flush it out, its the breakdown of the aluminum. If you can find , non -ethanol  gas  use it and always use 93 octane and quality oil at 32:1  up to 40:1 
The average homeowner needs a reliable saw , not a high performance racing saw , like you see at the timber cutting shows.


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## The Weimar (Jan 25, 2015)

Great points Mark  Let me elaborate a bit, if I may. Running your mixture 'oil rich' will NEVER hurt your saw. The worst thing that can happen is that you will foul a plug, which would be a result of other pre-existing issues. A rich mixture has a lot of benefits. More oil means more lubrication, longer piston, ring and cylinder life. It also creates power. The added oil in the mix can help create a better ring to cylinder wall seal which helps boost compression. Two stroke engines are typically loose, as the piston to cylinder wall clearance is greater than in a four stroke engine. I raced moto-cross for 12 years, semi-professionally, and we tried just about everything to get more zip out of a big chainsaw engine. Best bet in a chainsaw, or any high revving two stroke: Good Gas, Good oil, (not off the Home depot shelf stuff) and rich oil mix, open the plug gap up a bit and don't let it sit there idling like a taxi.
We had a 82cc Kawasaki engine dyno'd:  23hp@12900 rpm, 112 octane VP fuel, Bel-Ray MC1+ oil @ 25-1.  That SOB woulda cut some wood!

The Weimar


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## Fiziksgeek (Jan 28, 2015)

I mix up fuel 1 gallon at a time using those 1 gallon mix oil bottles (stihl synthetic). I typically stop short when filling,  around .9 gallons of gas, which if my math is right, leave me with a 45:1, for a little margin. 

More oil means more heat...? Is there a danger in going too high with the mix? I have a pro saw, with the magnesium case, so I assume it dissipates heat better...homeowner saws maybe not as well?


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## Jon1270 (Jan 28, 2015)

Fiziksgeek said:


> More oil means more heat...?



Not sure where you got that idea, but no.  More oil does mean less gas, and the mixture screws might need to be tweaked ever so slightly to compensate for that.



Fiziksgeek said:


> I have a pro saw, with the magnesium case, so I assume it dissipates heat better



Not much heat ever makes it to the case.  The combustion happens up at the top of the cylinder, and the heat dissipates through the cylinder's cooling fins while cool gas and air is constantly being sucked through the crankcase.


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## Firewood Bandit (Jan 28, 2015)

Your comment:

  It never seemed like anyone could get the carb on the 290 adjusted to where it would keep running if you set it down for 30 seconds, unless it was set so the chain ran all the time. Plus it would stall if I didn't take it real easy with the throttle. 

Are classic signs of an air leak.  DO NOT RUN a saw with these signs.


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## Mag Craft (Jan 28, 2015)

Check the clutch you might have weak springs or one that is broke.


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## Fiziksgeek (Jan 31, 2015)

Jon1270 said:


> Not sure where you got that idea, but no.  More oil does mean less gas, and the mixture screws might need to be tweaked ever so slightly to compensate for that.



Not sure where I got that idea either, haha. I distinctly recall someone telling me that the mix burns a little hotter with more oil in it...but I do admit that they may not have known anything at all! 

I know...or I think I know, that if you have too much oil you can fowl your plugs with carbon build up...do I know that? haha


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## Jon1270 (Jan 31, 2015)

Fiziksgeek said:


> I distinctly recall someone telling me that the mix burns a little hotter with more oil



The person who told you that wasn't wrong, exactly; they were presumably saying it would burn hotter than a mix with less oil would _if the carb weren't adjusted to compensate._  That's probably true, but it only matters if you intend to change the fuelil ratio without adjusting the carb, which you shouldn't do.


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## The Weimar (Jan 31, 2015)

Ok, the engine will not run hotter because there is more oil in the mix....nope, not even a little bit. Too much oil won't foul the plug, too much oil/gas mixture going through the carb will foul the plug. You would have to be so oil rich to foul the plug that, well, you just couldn't do it. If you use modern, high performance synthetic pre-mix oil, you will never foul a plug because of oil, and quite frankly the engine will barely smoke. Once again, don't let it sit there idling like a cop car on traffic detail, they were designed to run WFO...
ya know what? Try it out, 20-1 with some high quality oil and at least 93 octane, if it doesn't run better, call the Dr.

The Weimar


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## Clodhopper (Feb 11, 2015)

Just as a follow up on this saw, I ended up taking it up to my local Husqvarna shop because everyone around has told me he's a crackerjack mechanic.  Turns out that the pulse hose was cracked in 2 places.  I have not really put it through it's paces yet, but it seems to be running great.  I think maybe my local Stihl guys were just too lazy to want to bother taking the saw apart to find it, especially if they thought that they might be able to sell a new saw instead.


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## MarylandGuy (Feb 12, 2015)

If you did indeed see mild scoring on the cylinder after pulling the muffler, it might be prudent to get that cleaned up before you do more damage. Stihl's cylinders are Nikasil plated, so they can't be bored out to the next sized piston.  But the great thing about Nikasil is it's hard as a rock. 

When the aluminum piston rubs on the Nikasil, often from a lean running issue, that's called transfer. The aluminum transfer on the cylinder walls can be sanded and buffed off.  A lot of times you can get it back to looking like new.    

If you go to the Arboristsite forum, in the chainsaw section, you will learn pretty quickly how to clean up the cylinder and install new piston and rings.  I have done it to many saws I have found on Craigslist.  Pretty easy to do if you are mechanically inclined.

Most will suggest you buy an after market Meteor piston with Caber rings.  Quality stuff.  But recently Stihl dramatically lowered their prices on certain parts, including pistons.  So at this point for a few dollars more, you could install factory parts back on the saw.  Oh and if your impulse line was bad, it's possible your fuel line could go soon as well.  Might as well install one of those with a new fuel filter.  Once again pretty easy to do and cheap insurance.


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## Jon1270 (Feb 12, 2015)

MarylandGuy said:


> But recently Stihl dramatically lowered their prices on certain parts, including pistons.



This is very interesting.  Could it be that the aftermarket competition is finally getting to them?


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## MarylandGuy (Feb 12, 2015)

That is the general consensus within the chainsaw community.  Apparently the high price of replacement parts has been a major complaint for the dealers. Think about all the sales they lose to aftermarket chainsaw parts on ebay. Prices started falling around the first of the year.  It remains to be seen how long they stay low.

Sadly, there are still some dealers who are using the old price structure and pocketing the extra money.  So you may want to shop a few dealers if say you need a new cylinder and piston.


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