# Trying to decide on Harman vs. Quadrafire



## JoeR3155 (Mar 5, 2017)

Hello All,
This site has been a huge help to this novice trying to learn about Pellet stoves.  After doing lots of on-line research, I'm still struggling to decide on a pellet stove, and yes, it's the age-old question of Harman vs. Quadrafire. I've seen this described as the same as a  "Ford vs. Chevy" debate, but nevertheless I'd value some input.

The stove will be going into our 1100 sq ft. seasonal cottage in New Hampshire.  We are looking to be able to use the cottage from early spring through late fall, but won't be using the system in the dead of winter.

There's a Quadrafire dealer in our area that's got a very good reputation, and we (okay, my wife) were quickly attracted to the Mt. Vernon AE.  Here's what we like about it: Quietness, ability to connect a programmable thermostat (so we can pre-heat prior to arriving on the weekend), ability to run (sort of) off of a battery, large hopper, and the dealer reputation.

But I'm a little put off by things I've read about expensive parts on the Quad.

We're also considering the Harman Absolute 43.  We don't know anything about how good the Harman dealer is, but I would guess if they stunk then Harman wouldn't keep them on (?). On the plus side is the Harman reputation - big in my eyes, and that the stove can be cleaned without turning it off (according to the sales rep).  The downside to the Harman is that it can't connect to a programmable thermostat, and we'd need to get an inverter (plus battery) to run during power outages.  Also, we don't know anything about the dealer, which concerns me a bit.

The bottom line is:  We like the features on the MVAE better - and also the dealer - but I don't want to be second guessing myself if we buy a unit with reliability issues.  I'd rather have a reliable stove that needs a little more maintenance, than a low maintenance stove that breaks down.


Thanks in advance for your help!


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## mralias (Mar 5, 2017)

JoeR3155 said:


> Hello All,
> This site has been a huge help to this novice trying to learn about Pellet stoves.  After doing lots of on-line research, I'm still struggling to decide on a pellet stove, and yes, it's the age-old question of Harman vs. Quadrafire. I've seen this described as the same as a  "Ford vs. Chevy" debate, but nevertheless I'd value some input.
> 
> The stove will be going into our 1100 sq ft. seasonal cottage in New Hampshire.  We are looking to be able to use the cottage from early spring through late fall, but won't be using the system in the dead of winter.
> ...



FYI

Quadra-Fire® is a member of the Hearth & Home Technologies (HHT) family of brands. HHT is the world's leading developer, producer and installer of hearth products. The company offers a product line unsurpassed in breadth, including a full array of gas, electric, pellet and wood burning fireplaces, inserts, stoves, mantels and more. *HHT carries the industry’s best and most recognized brands, including: Harman™*, Heat & Glo®, Heatilator®, Quadra-Fire, Outdoor Lifestyles and Fireside Hearth & Home retail stores and builder design centers.


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## whitetailscout (Mar 5, 2017)

My recommendation is to go with the stove that you know you will get excellent dealer support for when it needs service. I'm going through some frustration with my Enviro, and the inability to get it serviced.


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## railfanron (Mar 5, 2017)

If it was me I'd go with a P series Harman. The P series is the easiest to clean and can be connected to a programmable/ wifi thermostat. Although I'm not sure about cleaning the Absolute without turning it off, I believe the salesperson is stretching the truth a bit. Yes the firepot can be cleaned and scraped on any of the Harmans while in operation they all need to be shut down for a complete cleaning. I run my P43 on a thermostat and hardly ever touch the stove's controls. I use the programmable stat to do everything including a shutdown. I have the same stat on the furnace and my wife has no trouble or confusion when she wants to change a setting.
Ron


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## JoeR3155 (Mar 5, 2017)

railfanron said:


> If it was me I'd go with a P series Harman. The P series is the easiest to clean and can be connected to a programmable/ wifi thermostat. Although I'm not sure about cleaning the Absolute without turning it off, I believe the salesperson is stretching the truth a bit. Yes the firepot can be cleaned and scraped on any of the Harmans while in operation they all need to be shut down for a complete cleaning. I run my P43 on a thermostat and hardly ever touch the stove's controls. I use the programmable stat to do everything including a shutdown. I have the same stat on the furnace and my wife has no trouble or confusion when she wants to change a setting.
> Ron



Thanks Ron.  To be fair to the dealer, he was talking about the cleaning the fire pot.  How quiet is the P43?  The stove will be just outside our bedroom and my wife is a very light sleeper. 

Thanks again


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## Tonyray (Mar 5, 2017)

JoeR3155 said:


> Thanks Ron.  To be fair to the dealer, he was talking about the cleaning the fire pot.  How quiet is the P43?  The stove will be just outside our bedroom and my wife is a very light sleeper.
> 
> Thanks again


you will hear the ching/ching/ching of pellets dropping....not loud but it's there..
I have slept downstairs at times with the harmanP61A and didn't keep me awake at all..


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## railfanron (Mar 5, 2017)

We have a large family room and I sleep out there a lot about 20 ft from the stove. If you run in room temp auto the stove will cycle on and off completely. If your cottage is well insulated it will not be on long and off longer (maybe 20 minutes an hour). If you run it in room temp manual the convection blower will cycle on and off making the stove pretty quiet. My stove supplies all the heat in the fall and spring and about 50% in the dead of winter. Our house is 2250 sq ft well insulated. The stove can heat the whole house all year but with it all on one floor the room farthest from the stove is about 60 ft away and the temperature spread is about 10 degrees in the dead of winter and 5 degrees in the fall and spring. My guess on how quiet the P series is would be about the same as an absolute.
Ron


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## doghouse (Mar 6, 2017)

You'll be using the cottage from early spring to late fall, but not in winter.  Both great stoves but why pay that much for something you 'll never fully use?


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## bogieb (Mar 6, 2017)

JoeR3155 said:


> We're also considering the Harman Absolute 43.  We don't know anything about how good the Harman dealer is, but I would guess if they stunk then Harman wouldn't keep them on (?). On the plus side is the Harman reputation - big in my eyes, and that the stove can be cleaned without turning it off (according to the sales rep).  *The downside to the Harman is that it can't connect to a programmable thermosta*t, and we'd need to get an inverter (plus battery) to run during power outages.  Also, we don't know anything about the dealer, which concerns me a bit.
> 
> The bottom line is:  We like the features on the MVAE better - and also the dealer - but I don't want to be second guessing myself if we buy a unit with reliability issues.  I'd rather have a reliable stove that needs a little more maintenance, than a low maintenance stove that breaks down.
> 
> ...



I thought that particular stove had "schedule" mode for programing and you could use a remote sensor if you didn't want to use the room probe.


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## Maladjusted (Mar 6, 2017)

I just went through this same exercise between Harman and Quad...  my decision was made a bit easier because I needed more BTU output than the MVAE provided.  I went with the Harman Absolute 63 (See my review a few posts down) and couldn't be happier.  It does have a programmable thermostat and I spoke with the Engineering team at Harman... they are testing Wifi connectivity to be able to control the stove from a smartphone.  It will be available as an upgrade to the existing touch screen. For your example of wanting to fire the stove before you arrive for the weekend... you will need internet connectivity and a wifi enabled thermostat (Honeywell makes decent units).

The Absolute is very easy to clean... and so far... after a week and 10 bags... I have no significant buildup and all that was needed was to open the door and pull the ash out of the burnpot.  Took all of 30 seconds and I only did it because I was bored... the prompt for burn pot cleaning is still only at 68%.

Parts for the Quads should be as easy to source as the Harman as they are owned by the same parent company as outline above.

For you case... honestly, I would go visit each dealer... talk with them.  Choose the stove that you feel the dealer is going to provide the best service.

Mal


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## JoeR3155 (Mar 6, 2017)

doghouse said:


> You'll be using the cottage from early spring to late fall, but not in winter.  Both great stoves but why pay that much for something you 'll never fully use?



We like the idea of having some head-room in heating capacity - just in case.  Also, we looked at a couple less costly models (e.g. Quad Classic Bay 1200), but we didn't love the appearance, and it was louder than my wife was comfortable with.


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## JoeR3155 (Mar 6, 2017)

Maladjusted said:


> For you case... honestly, I would go visit each dealer... talk with them.  Choose the stove that you feel the dealer is going to provide the best service.
> 
> Mal



Thanks Mal. We did visit the dealers, and had a little better feeling about the Quad dealer, who does have a good reputation from others we've spoken with. I am swayed by the fact that Harman seems to have so many loyal followers


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## rona (Mar 6, 2017)

JoeR3155 said:


> Thanks Mal. We did visit the dealers, and had a little better feeling about the Quad dealer, who does have a good reputation from others we've spoken with. I am swayed by the fact that Harman seems to have so many loyal followers


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## alternativeheat (Mar 6, 2017)

P series Harmans are not quiet, to answer your question about a P43. It would run quietest in Constant Burn Manual mode from heat level about 4.5 and lower but the room fan won't be going and that's why. I suspect the Absolute 43 is quieter. The quietest Harman is said to be the XXV and they have some whopper power via twin room fans . I don't know, my wife could fall asleep with a hurricane blowing through the house and a cement mixer running in the yard at the same time, so well, get some ear plugs for yours I guess LOL ! No pellet stove is silent.

Up in Maine we rent a cabin with a propane living room stove, it has no blower and is dead silent. All you hear is a click of a solenoid when the call for heat comes. Never needs cleaning, never looks dirty etc etc. For a summer cottage that's probably what I'd be looking for. I don't think I'd be screwing around with pellets, the cleanings, the storage and the whole show.


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## rona (Mar 6, 2017)

When things go bad and they all will  at some point I think The Harman will be a easier fix. The AE has a lot of good features but is Hy Tech if something  goes bad and you will end up having a dealer visit you. The AE had a lot of growing pains the first couple years and  to their credit fixed many headaches.  The igniter has been replaced as it was common to go bad. Sometimes static electricity would foul up the controls.
  The good point is the fact the stove can be manually lit and run with a 12 volt car battery. The igniter can be replaced by the customer with a little training. You should get a extra igniter when you get the stove and insist the dealer show you how to change out the igniter so you know how to do it.
 The AE has a very small ash container so be aware of that.. The AE can be reprogramed  if you need it.
  The Harman seems more reliable and much simpler  to run.. Less up keep and I would say get a extra ESP probe along with a 1/8th inch metal screw as spare parts. Most troubleshooting for various problems begins with clean and replace the esp probe  as a maintenance item.  But you can do the Harman repairs yourself which is good . The Harmans use a proven idea without the extra features and problems of the wall control that the AE has.


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## JoeR3155 (Mar 6, 2017)

Rona - thanks for the reply - extremely helpful!


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## alternativeheat (Mar 6, 2017)

Just for the record ( not trying to jinx myself), next season will be season 5 for our P61, repairs to date 0. No ESP probe replacement as yet, no igniter replacement as yet, and the igniter gets a work out in the shoulder season. I can give this stove a full cleaning in 20 minutes and I don't take out the ESP but use a bottle brush on it right in place.. I have no clue what is entailed in cleaning an Absolute but they are a pretty stove for sure.. From a maintenance standpoint, indeed the P43 is a solid unit, easy to work on, gives good heat.


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## JoeR3155 (Mar 6, 2017)

Maladjusted said:


> ... I spoke with the Engineering team at Harman... they are testing Wifi connectivity to be able to control the stove from a smartphone.  It will be available as an upgrade to the existing touch screen....
> Mal



Hello Mal - Forgot to ask... Did Harman by any chance give you an idea of when this capability would be available?
thanks


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## Maladjusted (Mar 6, 2017)

No.. they just said they were in testing phase currently.  My dealer confirmed the same thing.


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## Tonyray (Mar 6, 2017)

alternativeheat said:


> Just for the record ( not trying to jinx myself), next season will be season 5 for our P61, repairs to date 0. No ESP probe replacement as yet, no igniter replacement as yet, and the igniter gets a work out in the shoulder season. I can give this stove a full cleaning in 20 minutes and I don't take out the ESP but use a bottle brush on it right in place.. I have no clue what is entailed in cleaning an Absolute but they are a pretty stove for sure.. From a maintenance standpoint, indeed the P43 is a solid unit, easy to work on, gives good heat.


same here.. season 5 coming in the fall..
only issue was igniter and that was due to bare spot on one of the leads in the igniter compartment which blew a fuse..[and prob the igniter].
I think some very very small embers made the're way thru the burnpot holes and landed on one of the lead wires that SHOULD have been tucked further back out of the way]. I may have pulled them down when "fingering" the dry ash out of the compartment.
easy fix to replace the 6Amp fuse and put in a new igniter after watching a video online.. maybe 30 -45 minutes.
soooooooo, make sure your 2 igniter lead wires are pushed to the rear corner of the compartment.
when I replaced the new igniter, I pulled the 2 wires pretty taunt from the back of the stove...


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## JoeR3155 (Mar 6, 2017)

alternativeheat said:


> Up in Maine we rent a cabin with a propane living room stove, it has no blower and is dead silent. All you hear is a click of a solenoid when the call for heat comes. Never needs cleaning, never looks dirty etc etc. For a summer cottage that's probably what I'd be looking for. I don't think I'd be screwing around with pellets, the cleanings, the storage and the whole show.



I would tend to agree, but the Mrs is worrIed about propane, so....


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## alternativeheat (Mar 7, 2017)

JoeR3155 said:


> I would tend to agree, but the Mrs is worrIed about propane, so....


Ya,wives can be strange creatures for sure, mine won't have natural gas but propane is fine LOL!
Right now her sister is living with us for a "season" shall we say, and that brings in another whole set of idiosyncrasies....


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## bags (Mar 7, 2017)

Both are good stoves. I do think the MV AE will be more costly for parts when needed down the road and many complain about the auto pot clean mode where it shuts off at inopportune times when heat is needed to do the auto clean. There are many threads here on Harman and MV AE's that you can search and read up on both using the search bar above.

I almost bought a used MV AE but after researching and help from our resident pro on them I decided on another Harman. I have two Harmans and zero complaints about them. All pellet stoves make some noise operating but soon you get used to it and pay no attention.


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## rona (Mar 8, 2017)

JoeR3155 said:


> Hello Mal - Forgot to ask... Did Harman by any chance give you an idea of when this capability would be available?
> thanks


Just as a interesting note Bixby had wifi on their stoves back in 2008.


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## JoeR3155 (Mar 9, 2017)

Thanks again for all of your input.  We decided to go with the Harman. How can all of their loyal supporters be wrong?  Hope to have it installed by the end of the month and enjoying April at the lake!


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## Tonyray (Mar 9, 2017)

JoeR3155 said:


> Thanks again for all of your input.  We decided to go with the Harman. How can all of their loyal supporters be wrong?  Hope to have it installed by the end of the month and enjoying April at the lake!


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## Maladjusted (Mar 9, 2017)

I don't think you'll have any regrets... I am on day 11 since install.  I've burned 9 bags.  The scheduler is the bomb.   Coming downstairs to a warm space is awesome!  I got the "scrape burnpot" prompt today... took all of 1 minute to scrape it out.

Btw... what lake?  My father has a house in Moultonboro.


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## JoeR3155 (Mar 9, 2017)

Maladjusted said:


> .
> 
> Btw... what lake?  My father has a house in Moultonboro.



We're on Merrymeeting Lake in New Durham, just south of Wolfeboro.  Just been there a year but it's a great spot.


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## bogieb (Mar 10, 2017)

We need pics when you have it installed - and again on the first fire up!


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## alternativeheat (Mar 10, 2017)

Awesome, enjoy it !


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## Maladjusted (Mar 10, 2017)

Hey AlternativeHeat... I saw a GFS model run this morning that shows up to 36" of snow coming for the Cape...   Can I bring my sleds up and rip down the beach?


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## alternativeheat (Mar 10, 2017)

Maladjusted said:


> Hey AlternativeHeat... I saw a GFS model run this morning that shows up to 36" of snow coming for the Cape...   Can I bring my sleds up and rip down the beach?


You could do that but I suspect you would be sorely disappointed. Local forecast showing occasional snow accumulating  3-5" with snow sticking to mostly non paved surfaces. The wind is howling at 5MPH out of the North.  And presently we have light snow falling and about 1-1/2" on the grass and cars.. And it says snow tapering off this afternoon ! Course that's not to say they're right, weather is very difficult to predict on this peninsula, but I will say that a straight north wind is not usually cause for several feet of snow here..


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## Maladjusted (Mar 10, 2017)

Early next week.... GFS, EURO and NAM are all aligning on this one.


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## alternativeheat (Mar 10, 2017)

Maladjusted said:


> Early next week.... GFS, EURO and NAM are all aligning on this one.


Oh that one, we will start watching for that maybe Sunday evening or so.


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## P51mustang (Mar 12, 2017)

alternativeheat said:


> P series Harmans are not quiet, to answer your question about a P43. It would run quietest in Constant Burn Manual mode from heat level about 4.5 and lower but the room fan won't be going and that's why. I suspect the Absolute 43 is quieter. The quietest Harman is said to be the XXV and they have some whopper power via twin room fans . I don't know, my wife could fall asleep with a hurricane blowing through the house and a cement mixer running in the yard at the same time, so well, get some ear plugs for yours I guess LOL ! No pellet stove is silent.
> 
> Up in Maine we rent a cabin with a propane living room stove, it has no blower and is dead silent. All you hear is a click of a solenoid when the call for heat comes. Never needs cleaning, never looks dirty etc etc. For a summer cottage that's probably what I'd be looking for. I don't think I'd be screwing around with pellets, the cleanings, the storage and the whole show.



As much as I love my pellet stove (Harman P61A), if I was looking to heat a seasonal "Three season" cottage I would install a slightly oversized high efficiency propane floor and/or wall heater wired to a thermostat.  Also, if the cottage design allowed for it, and I had the financial means, I'd also install a high quality free standing wood stove.  Mostly for the charm and fragrance of a wood burning stove but also because you can't beat the quick heat from a wood stove.  A nice Jotul, Vermont Castings, Lopi, or Hearthstone.


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## JoeR3155 (Apr 21, 2017)

Our Absolute 43 was installed last week and so far we love it!  Can't say the same about the dealer though, but that's another story.  Thanks again for all of your input!

Here's a pic of the stove, and another of the sunset the day it was installed.  Wouldn't have seen this beautiful sunset we're it not for the new Harman!


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## bogieb (Apr 22, 2017)

Beautiful sunset! The stove ain't too shabby either.


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## P51mustang (Apr 23, 2017)

bogieb said:


> Beautiful sunset! The stove ain't too shabby either.




Nice!  I love the look and design of the Absolute 43.  And your hearth is nice too.  One thing I highly recommend you do is put a VERY high quality surge suppressor between the stove and the wall receptacle the photo shows your stove plugged into.  

Tripp-Lite Ultra isobar is one I'd recommend.....Here's a link to the model I have on my P61A:

https://www.tripplite.com/Isobar-4-...Cord-3300-Joules-Diagnostic-LEDs~ISOBAR4ULTRA

You don't need this exact one, but I suggest one with at least 3000 Joules protection....

Thanks for the photo.  Seeing new installs is sort of like stove porn....Ha, ha...


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## JoeR3155 (Apr 23, 2017)

P51mustang said:


> Nice!  I love the look and design of the Absolute 43.  And your hearth is nice too.  One thing I highly recommend you do is put a VERY high quality surge suppressor between the stove and the wall receptacle the photo shows your stove plugged into.
> 
> Tripp-Lite Ultra isobar is one I'd recommend.....Here's a link to the model I have on my P61A:
> 
> ...



Thanks for the reminder on the surge suppressor.  Meant to bring one up and forgot!


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