# 25-PDVC's Original Burn Pot......



## CladMaster (Feb 3, 2014)

is not very efficient !

Some background info on my setup...
25-PDVC corner install with OAK installed.
Exhaust vent -- EVL = 18 feet, this is broken down as follows
3" pipe from the stove to outside the house  --  1 stove adapter, 45 bend, 2 feet through the wall, cleanout T, 2 feet vertical, from there I have 5 feet of 4" straight up to the horizontal end cap as I needed to clear the top of the window on that side of the house by 1 foot.

The most talked about thing with this stove is the dirty sooty burn, the stove gets covered in black soot, including the glass. Those that own this stove, will, I'm sure chime in and comment on this.

The other thing that this stove is known for, is the lazy dark yellow flame, and this is part of the reason why the stove makes this black soot / ash, especially on the right side of the stove.

Then there is the issue with the ash, it clogs up the burn plate most of the time. You will see this in one of the pictures below with the original burn plate. Also, notice the color of the ash, it's brown / black and not white / grey !

A few months back, a member here re-designed a new burn pot holder and used a burn pot from another stove (See this thread here --  https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/need-help-with-englander-25-pdv.118384/)

This gave me an idea, and a Research and Development Project took off ......

I wanted to use the original burn pot that holds the burn plate, so ......

For about a week I watched how the stove burned with all it's settings, the result was a lack of air getting to the pellets for a clean burn. I tried blocking off the side holes in the burn pot, this helped to a degree, but still produced a yellow flame with black tips to the flame, a sooty black burn.

*Prototype 1*
I then acquired a piece of metal the same thickness as the burn plate and set about making a new burn plate that was about two thirds of the original plate and blocking off the front section that slops up (see picture below). I tested this over 7 days, it was an improvement, but still it produced that black soot / ash that coated the inside of the stove. The fire still had a lack of air to burn the pellets cleanly.

Ash was getting ejected out, but it was not clearing the burn plate to allow air to flow through the fuel, this produced some nice clinkers !

This lead to ......

*Prototype 2*
I modified the burn plate from Prototype 1 so that it was smaller, now it did not sit in the burn pot, this lead to making a holding plate at the back, the smaller burn pot sits on this plate at the back of the stove inside the burn pot, this leads to a short drop just under where the pellets are fed into the burn pot, this drop is just enough to disturb the already burning pellets which in turn allows for the ash to be ejected out of the burn chamber. I enclosed this smaller burn plate around the sides (left, right and front) with some carefully cut metal (the same metal used to make the burn plate), so that the fuel was contained in a small area. All the gaps that allowed air to escape blocked off with rope gasket (rope gasket is a temporary thing until I get the burn pot welded up).

As you will see in the pictures below, the Prototype 2 now produces a cleaner and more efficient burn, the back of the stove is not black, the stove produces plenty of heat too. Ash gets ejected from the burn pot and out to the sides and front. The flame is a bright yellow without the black tips.

With the original burn plate I was getting black / brown ash and 'dirty burn', now I get white / grey ash and a 'clean burn' with the new designed Burn chamber.

I also managed to incorporate the igniter into the new chamber, so no manual start of the fire.

Prototype 2 is a two part design, the back plate and burn plate will be welded together and make one part of the burn chamber, the side plates and blocking plates will be welded together to make the second part of the burn chamber. It fits together in two parts. This allows for easy cleaning with a scraper.


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## CladMaster (Feb 5, 2014)

*Update -- 4 days on :* I have not had to clean the stove out, it's been running 4 days none stop. I've been topping up the hopper without the need to shut the stove down, no black soot on the window, clean inside apart from the white / grey build up that you get on the glass that wipes off with a cloth. No clinkers, ash is thrown up and out of the burn chamber.

Ash is white / grey in color, flame is still a bright yellow with no black tips.

I have burnt 4 different pellet brands over these 4 days --- Natures Own, MWP, Pres-to-Logs and Heat Resource, not had a single issue with heat (lack off), or a clinker issue, or ash build up within the burn chamber.

With the original burn plate I would be cleaning the stove every 12 - 16 hours !


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## Lake Girl (Feb 5, 2014)

Interesting modifications - have you sent a PM to stoveguy2esw (Mike from Englander)?   Instead of modifying burn pot, would the burn have been better if it was 4" venting from the stove out?


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## CladMaster (Feb 5, 2014)

I can not put a 4" vent through the wall, there are 2 support studs that are in the way due to the way the house was built, I had just enough room for the 3" vent with the thimble, and because I had to clear the top of the window by 1 foot it took me over the 15' EVL, so I finished it off with 4" venting. Also, the stove could not go elsewhere, the location that it's in was the only option.


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## Lake Girl (Feb 5, 2014)

The surprise in a corner install!  The Englanders don't have the reduction of clearance near windows with the OAK do they?


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## CladMaster (Feb 5, 2014)

Lake Girl said:


> The Englanders don't have the reduction of clearance near windows with the OAK do they?


Nope, not that I have seen.


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## Lake Girl (Feb 5, 2014)

Lucky you have the ability to modify and got a better burn - not everyone has the equipment and know-how to do it!  Happy burning


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## chrisasst (Feb 5, 2014)

How much are you selling one for?   Or you could make me a tester and send me one...
 I am in a need for something better..


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## CladMaster (Feb 5, 2014)

It's in testing stage as of now (prototype not welded up), should be about a week or so with the tests. I'll get it welded once I'm happy with it and re-test it to make sure that I have got it right.


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## chken (Feb 5, 2014)

How dare you mod your burn plate! Don't you know that the mfr has spent thousands of hours on a supercomputer designing those to work at optimum efficiency?!?



<sarcasm>


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## CladMaster (Feb 5, 2014)

Well I guess the 'supercomputer' design (software) is also flawed, you'd think that a supercomputer would get it right the first time !

<sarcasm>


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## stoveguy2esw (Feb 5, 2014)

now all you need is to shell out about 20 grand and have the stove tested for emissions with your new pot. make sure it will pass as it sits as if you have to take the stove down and do any mods to correct anything its another 10 grand to set it back on the stand and retest.

as for the pot , yeah its going to stay clearer as the same amount of air is being transited through a smaller chamber. used to be when you could sell 35-1 units anywhere you could have an unlimited air budget and not have to worry about the excess particulates that carry through the stove and into the exhaust stream as emissions were not tested in exempt units. nowadays the only things you can sell nationwide are cert units and to meet the cert qualifications you have to keep particulates below a certain amount, this is calculated by filters which catch particulates from  sampling of the exhaust stream while the unit is running. now the filters are weighed before and after the test and the amount of particulates are determined in this manner (so to speak, its more complex than that) the filters do not differentiate between inert ash (fly ash) and other particulates so to keep the ash from becoming part of the sample you have to keep the air down enough to keep the fly ash out of the sample while still burning clean enough so as to not have unburned soot show up on the filters either. it aint easy.

making the pot eject ash and burn without ash loading isn't that hard, ive done this many times in different stoves in my lab, but making it do this and still get a certification is more difficult, and its going to get harder. the PDVC you are burnig is actually the highest GPH pellet stove we build, at 3.1GPH I think, we will have to have our products below 1.3GPH within the next 5 years. I aint looking forward to this as its gonna be quite taxing. this stove as we currently build it may not be available in a few years due to the new regs.


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## chken (Feb 5, 2014)

CladMaster said:


> Well I guess the 'supercomputer' design (software) is also flawed, you'd think that a supercomputer would get it right the first time !
> 
> <sarcasm>


I agree, it's the software, couldn't possibly be the supercomputer hardware. Garbage in, garbage out. 

I like the mods. So it seems a little drop helps agitate the burning pellets, and bigger air holes add more air in the bottom, and fewer air holes in the sides, makes for a cleaner and better burn.


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## chken (Feb 5, 2014)

stoveguy2esw said:


> as for the pot , yeah its going to stay clearer as the same amount of air is being transited through a smaller chamber. used to be when you could sell 35-1 units anywhere you could have an unlimited air budget and not have to worry about the excess particulates that carry through the stove and into the exhaust stream as emissions were not tested in exempt units. nowadays the only things you can sell nationwide are cert units and to meet the cert qualifications you have to keep particulates below a certain amount, this is calculated by filters which catch particulates from  sampling of the exhaust stream while the unit is running. now the filters are weighed before and after the test and the amount of particulates are determined in this manner (so to speak, its more complex than that) the filters do not differentiate between inert ash (fly ash) and other particulates so to keep the ash from becoming part of the sample you have to keep the air down enough to keep the fly ash out of the sample while still burning clean enough so as to not have unburned soot show up on the filters either. it aint easy.


Thanks for the informative post. I recall reading somewhere that my stove mfr, Piazzetta had to lower its combustion air, to meet EPA requirements, which sounds exactly what you are talking about. The side effect is that the air wash is not as good, which is a common complaint for Piazzettas.

Of course, combustion air is an adjustable setting, ...


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## CladMaster (Feb 5, 2014)

chken said:


> I like the mods. So it seems a little drop helps agitate the burning pellets, and bigger air holes add more air in the bottom, and fewer air holes in the sides, makes for a cleaner and better burn.



Yes, the small drop agitates the fuel that's burning which helps with the ash removal.

I'll post up some more pictures later, I plan to do a clean out tomorrow or Friday.

I'll also put up a video of it burning over the weekend.


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## CladMaster (Feb 5, 2014)

stoveguy2esw said:


> now all you need is to shell out about 20 grand and have the stove tested for emissions with your new pot. make sure it will pass as it sits as if you have to take the stove down and do any mods to correct anything its another 10 grand to set it back on the stand and retest.
> 
> as for the pot , yeah its going to stay clearer as the same amount of air is being transited through a smaller chamber. used to be when you could sell 35-1 units anywhere you could have an unlimited air budget and not have to worry about the excess particulates that carry through the stove and into the exhaust stream as emissions were not tested in exempt units. nowadays the only things you can sell nationwide are cert units and to meet the cert qualifications you have to keep particulates below a certain amount, this is calculated by filters which catch particulates from  sampling of the exhaust stream while the unit is running. now the filters are weighed before and after the test and the amount of particulates are determined in this manner (so to speak, its more complex than that) the filters do not differentiate between inert ash (fly ash) and other particulates so to keep the ash from becoming part of the sample you have to keep the air down enough to keep the fly ash out of the sample while still burning clean enough so as to not have unburned soot show up on the filters either. it aint easy.
> 
> making the pot eject ash and burn without ash loading isn't that hard, ive done this many times in different stoves in my lab, but making it do this and still get a certification is more difficult, and its going to get harder. the PDVC you are burnig is actually the highest GPH pellet stove we build, at 3.1GPH I think, we will have to have our products below 1.3GPH within the next 5 years. I aint looking forward to this as its gonna be quite taxing. this stove as we currently build it may not be available in a few years due to the new regs.



30K for tests !   Ouch !

So, Mike, why do these stoves (PDV/C, and others like it from Englander) burn lazy and dirty the way that they do, I see so many posts on here about it.


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## stoveguy2esw (Feb 5, 2014)

mostly due to lower air  allowance , its a bigger pot than many too so the larger the pot the more widely distributed the air, hence , lower velocity. biggest ting with the c model and its big brother the pdv is they really do need to be kept clean , especially the exhaust pathway. newer models we have designed like the pah, ep and ip have a smaller pot a top feed system and a more indirect exhaust pathway which traps ash even at higher velocity I the exhaust stream.

one thing to look at also, this unit was designed in the 90's and released in 1998 technology back then wasn't what it is these days, and the "certified" pellet stove was not as common on the market. However since then we have built in excess of 120,000 of this model alone, making it quite likely the most successful single model of pellet stove (by numbers) in north America. it flat out heats. its cheap and its easy to maintain. that stove alone is the biggest reason we have grown as far as we have in the last 20 years or so since I started with ESW.

that said, its older tech, a bit clunky compared to more modern designs. but like the old fishers still chewing up logs out there its effective in the one thing that matters. slinging heat. now that new regs are coming down the pike though , like I said she's only going to around in her current configuration for at most another 4-5 years, currently we are working on a "smartstove" replacement for her in our line. some of the designs look pretty promising , but we have to plan ahead to make sure what we field will be able to meet or exceed the coming standards or it wont be worth the effort


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## CladMaster (Feb 5, 2014)

Ah, thanks for the info.

The stove has done what I needed it to do on the cheap, and that was to save $$$ and spend less in oil and heat the house at the same time. In the two seasons that I've used this stove it's done it's job and saved me over $1000.00 per season in heating the house.

The daily cleaning of the stove's burn plate and glass getting sooty was starting to get to me, I wanted to not have to clean it when it got choked up in the burn plate every 12 - 16 hours, this is why I have re-designed the burn chamber. I now have a cleaner stove on the inside and a better flame color (bright yellow) and a nice clean view window, and I've not had to shut it down in 4 days to clean it.

I've been watching the vent on the outside of the house, I now don't get black soot coming out of it. I see no sign of ash being ejected out of the vent either, I'm hoping that the ash is staying within the stove, and for the ash that does get into the exhaust vent, it is caught in the cleanout T / trap, I'll know more when I do the cleanout that's planned for tomorrow or Friday.

As for the PDVC .... now that you have said that the stove is going to be discontinued in 4 - 5 years, what's Englanders standing on spares for these stoves ...... 5 years, 10 years, 15 years ..... ?


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## stoveguy2esw (Feb 5, 2014)

CladMaster said:


> As for the PDVC .... now that you have said that the stove is going to be discontinued in 4 - 5 years, what's Englanders standing on spares for these stoves ...... 5 years, 10 years, 15 years ..... ?


 
we use practically every electronic part in that unit on other models, including the base circuit board , even if the stove is discontinued we will stock parts for quite a while. especially if the parts are still in demand , we are in the business of making money right? so why quit selling parts as long as there is a reasonable demand. the stoves which are already out there are "grandfathered" so they will still be legal to operate and will need parts to maintain over the years. so yeah, we'll support them as long as there is a reasonable demand for the parts we have pellet stoves we built in 1990 that we still can support for virtually any part even though the model might have been discontinued 20 years ago


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## PoopieBritches (Feb 6, 2014)

This is definitely a common issue with these stoves for sure(burn pot). I too have tried several different things to increase the flow through the burn pot. To try and eject the ash. Steel wool in the large side holes under the wear plate, plugging some of the holes in the wear plate itself(nearest the door). Nothing I tried seemed to really provide any true benefit.
Kudos to Cladmaster for coming up with an idea, and more importantly, executing that idea.
My thoughts are that while your design will allow for longer burns between cleanings of the burn pot, it will likely be at the expense of faster buildup of ash in the heat exchanger and exhaust path. Thereby, increasing the frequency for complete shut downs for cleaning the exhaust, and heat exchanger. Just my thoughts, I may be wrong.
I had figured that the reason Englander makes it the way they do, would likely be emissions related.
I was thinking of modding the burn pot. Shorten the actual pot itself, make the wear plate set flat in the pot, and hopefully allow the incoming unburned pellets to actually push the spent ash off the front of the wear plate. Similar to what the Harman's do.
Tricky part is that there isn't a lot of room in front of, or bellow the burn pot.


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## CladMaster (Feb 6, 2014)

Well, I did a shutdown today to clean out the stove after running for the last 5 days non-stop, I wanted to see how bad the ash buildup was in the heat exchanger area, to my surprise, it was like it would have been after a 12 - 16 hour burn.

I checked the exhaust flue and found a small amount of ash in the horizontal part (the through the wall part), the cleanout T had some ash in it, not as much as I was expecting, not even half full in the cap. Did a full clean, brushed out the exhaust pipes.

I said I'd post some more pictures (see below).



 



Above: This is part one of the two part design, you will see how this fits in the stove below.





This part holds the fuel on the burn plate, it sits on top of the burn plate as shown below.



 



Below is how the lower part sits inside the stove.





You will see that the side holes next to the burn plate have been blocked off with rope gasket in the above picture.





In the picture above, I have used rope gasket to block off the sides to stop air from leaking out. I have made the blocking plates, I just need to get it all welded so that I can do away with the rope gaskets.

I've recorded a video of the stove running tonight, I just got to resize it so that I can upload it to my Youtube site, will do this over the weekend.


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## Chris_! (Feb 7, 2014)

This is a great idea


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## DBCOOPER (Feb 7, 2014)

Would increasing the cfm of the exhaust fan make it burn cleaner using the factory burn pot?


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## kofkorn (Feb 7, 2014)

It would burn cleaner, but you would be wasting a lot of extra heat sending more CFM's up the vent.  Ideally, you have a lot of air movement through the pot and then slower movement through the heat exchanger, which is what the modified burn pot is doing.


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## CladMaster (Feb 8, 2014)

DBCOOPER said:


> Would increasing the cfm of the exhaust fan make it burn cleaner using the factory burn pot?



It would burn cleaner, but then it would also still have the issue of the ash build up on the burn plate, the factory burn plate is too big really. If the burn chamber was shorter in depth and sloped down instead of up, it might have burned better than it does in it's current factory form.



kofkorn said:


> It would burn cleaner, but you would be wasting a lot of extra heat sending more CFM's up the vent.  Ideally, you have a lot of air movement through the pot and then slower movement through the heat exchanger, which is what the modified burn pot is doing.



Spot on.


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## CladMaster (Feb 8, 2014)

Over the last 24 hours I've been making some small changes to the new burn chamber. I've done away with the rope gaskets and replaced them with Lytherm gasket material under the blocking plates at the sides and front, this has improved the burn.



 



Here are two pictures of the new burn chamber doing it's job with the Lytherm gasket material under the plates at the sides and front.

I've also 99 percent cured the carbon buildup on the auger and the feed tube with this new burn chamber.


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## chrisasst (Feb 8, 2014)

Just have to keep teasing me don't ya. Lol.


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## CladMaster (Feb 8, 2014)

chrisasst said:


> Just have to keep teasing me don't ya. Lol.



LOL, you have not seen anything yet ......


Anyway ....




and ...


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## PoopieBritches (Feb 8, 2014)

No offense, but the burn looks dirty and lazy. Also, what's up with all the noise? Is that the blowers?


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## CladMaster (Feb 8, 2014)

PoopieBritches said:


> No offense, but the burn looks dirty and lazy. Also, what's up with all the noise? Is that the blowers?



The cheap video camera does not do it justice, this is a problem I've had getting the camera to record what I see, and yes, the blowers are on full belt.


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## PoopieBritches (Feb 8, 2014)

CladMaster said:


> The cheap video camera does not do it justice, this is a problem I've had getting the camera to record what I see, and yes, the blowers are on full belt.


I see, wide open seems reasonable. As I said, no offense meant at all.
I have been keeping up with your thread, and admire what you've done.


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## jim3854 (Feb 8, 2014)

I WANT ONE !


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## chrisasst (Feb 8, 2014)

jim3854 said:


> I WANT ONE !



Hey, get in line and wait your turn, jack. 
Lol


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## jim3854 (Feb 9, 2014)

I said it first !!    I win


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## Pete Zahria (Feb 9, 2014)

So Clad.. after these mods you have made, what are all of your settings now?
And heat mode? while it is cleaner and all, have you also noticed more heat?

Dan


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## CladMaster (Feb 9, 2014)

I'll answer each question.



Pete Zahria said:


> So Clad.. after these mods you have made, what are all of your settings now?



This depends on the pellets, some pellets are smaller than others. Some pellets are also lighter in weight than others. For example, the MWP are not as dense as the Natures Own that I have, so the settings will be different for the different brands base on the makeup of the pellet being burned. Also, the MWP are longer in length, so this is also a factor that needs to be accounted for.

The plate in the bottom of the hopper is set at half way open, so the screw is in the middle of the cutout in this plate, this restricts the fuel feed the hopper end.

I will point this out ...  My stove has a production date of 2012. The LFF and LBA settings work on all the heat ranges on my stove contrary to what the manual states. Also, my room blower settings can be set to what ever setting I want. I have also noticed that the room blower settings changes the combustion blower speed, the higher the room blower setting, the combustion blower speed is also increased to compensate for the heat that's being ejected from the stove via the room blower setting. As you should all know, the more air injected into a fire, the hotter it burns. The problem with more air is that you have to compensate the other part of the burn factor, this being the fuel, too much fuel and you get a dark yellow-black flame, rich dirty burn, not enough fuel and it becomes too lean and burns with a white flame to it, which is too hot.

The ideal flame is bright yellow with no black tips to it.

Natures Own -- My settings to burn these is 2-(5/6/7)-1 on the lower 3 buttons. Now the middle setting (LBA) is set depending on the heat setting, the higher the heat setting over 5, the LBA needs to be set to 6 or 7 due to the extra fuel that's introduced into the burn chamber.

MWP -- These pellets do not burn as hot as the Natures Own, they are around 50 - 75F cooler.
My settings to burn these are lower on the LBA. The LBA needs to be on 3 or 4 at heat settings 1 - 4 otherwise the burning pellets are thrown out of the burn chamber because the air flow is too fast. With the heat ranges set to 5 - 9 the LBA is anywhere between 4 and 6.



Pete Zahria said:


> And heat mode?



Heat mode 'd'.



Pete Zahria said:


> while it is cleaner and all, have you also noticed more heat?



In a nutshell, yes, the stove is hotter on all the settings.


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## CladMaster (Feb 9, 2014)

I should also add that I get an extra 1 - 3 hours (heat setting dependent) of burn time from a bag of fuel now.


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## Pete Zahria (Feb 9, 2014)

CladMaster said:


> I'll answer each question.


 
 Nice... thanks!

Dan


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## CladMaster (Feb 9, 2014)

The heat readings below are the average heat readings I get with the burn chamber that I have made.

Today, 8 hours in (burn time), stove is in mode 'd', set to 2-6-1 on the lower three buttons, with the stove running at heat 7, blower 8., and this is how the stove looks. The left side of the stove has a temp reading of 540F. The house is at 76F on the lower floor, upstairs it's at 71F with the temp outside at 23F. If I up the heat settings it takes the stove over 580F and beyond.  I'm heating just over 1500 square feet.





Tomorrow the glass will be covered in white / grey ash, but only a coating, there will not be any black soot / ash on the glass unless a clinker forms overnight (I've not had a clinker in 8 days).

With the stove set to heat 4, blower 4, the stove gets up to 420F on the left side. This is 70 - 100F more than I would get with the factory burnplate with the same settings.

With the stove set to heat 2, blower 2 the stove gets up to 360 - 380F on the left side.

The stove starts to struggle to heat the house when the outside temp dips below 10F, with the factory burnplate the stove starts to struggle at 17F to keep the house above 68F.


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## Tjaxson (Nov 30, 2014)

you making and selling these yet.lol


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## CladMaster (Nov 30, 2014)

No, and there are no plans to do so for legal reasons.


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## Chris_! (Dec 1, 2014)

^ How about some measurements and detailed pictures so we can copy your design?
I was thinking about this thread the other day while trying to get my stove running again.


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## Arti (Dec 1, 2014)

Great idea.. A printable template would be nice to have........


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## CladMaster (Dec 1, 2014)

Prototype 3 .....   https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/question-about-englander.134952/page-3#post-1814841

More detailed pictures. The burn plate has changed, so take note. Measurements can be easy to work out by observation of the parts in the stove in the pictures in the above link.

I will not be making this for anyone, feel free to use the pictures as a base for making your own. Metal sheets can be obtained from HD and Lowes.

When drilling holes in metal, take it slow, slow speed on the drill, too fast and you kill the drill bit.


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## HD41 (Dec 1, 2014)

Chris_! said:


> ^ How about some measurements and detailed pictures so we can copy your design?
> I was thinking about this thread the other day while trying to get my stove running again.



I unknowingly didn't have my burn plate seated; pellets not burning well, building spilling out after 5 hours. I placed a baffle across the burn pot and flame filled the pot igniting unburned pellets which was a notable improvement however seating the burn plate was the major cause. I still have it in and seems to be an improvement. Doubt it is as effective as CladMaster burn pot but If you want to try something simple...


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## Chris_! (Dec 1, 2014)

^ That's interesting.


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## 99loco (Dec 2, 2014)

Hi guys, Time for a update on my modified burner pot. I have burned thru 3 tons of different types of pellets. I vacuum and clean the glass once a week, and leaf blow the stove about every ton. My settings are 4-1-1 and  I am on thermostat with blower set at 8 and my feed set between 3 to 8 depending on weather. Thru all my testing I have learned that you don't need more air to remove the ash. What I found is you need a hot fire with good combustion to completely  burn the pellet. More air just made a fluffy ash and blew the heat out the exhaust. In the mode I am in now my net stack temp. is 240F my air is set at 1 ,and I also added a damper on my fresh air intake which is closed to about 75%. So I am adding very little excess air which relates to the low stack temp. ,and I also leave the blower on high 8 to transfer as much heat thru the heat exchanger as possible. I also found my stove likes softwood pellets. I hope this information helps other stove owners understand their stoves better. By the way even with out the mods I made I think the Englander is a great stove for the price. Cladmaster  good luck with your testing hopefully we can get to the point of cleaning only once a month.


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## Chris_! (Dec 3, 2014)

^ Wow that's an awesome burn pot!


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