# Poplar trees for fuel ?



## Robbie (Sep 8, 2006)

I found this interesting story about poplar trees,

http://www.purdue.edu/UNS/html4ever/2006/060823.Chapple.poplar.html


             Robbie


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## mtarbert (Sep 8, 2006)

Remember.....ethanol as a fuel is a SCAM......it still (no pun intended) uses more energy to produce the ethanol than is relized from its burning.
    Mike


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## wg_bent (Sep 8, 2006)

mtarbert said:
			
		

> Remember.....ethanol as a fuel is a SCAM......it still (no pun intended) uses more energy to produce the ethanol than is relized from its burning.
> Mike



Hi Mike,  What's your source of info on this?  We (on the forum) kicked this around earlier in the year and I thought the conclusion (after reading a lot of sources) was that you do get more out than you put in. Maybe memory isn't serving me well, so I'd love to read up on it more if you have the info.


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## Sandor (Sep 8, 2006)

mtarbert said:
			
		

> Remember.....ethanol as a fuel is a SCAM......it still (no pun intended) uses more energy to produce the ethanol than is relized from its burning.
> Mike



U R Correct!

The EROEI is all over the map on this one. Some count the actual distallation process, others count the fuel requirement to truck corn to the still, etc. Proven very hard to quantify, but is does not look good.

Anyway, an EROEI of 1.2: 1 is not nearly as attractive as Saudi Oil at like 20:1.

There is no replacement for oil fellas.


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## saichele (Sep 9, 2006)

Conventional corn -> sugar -> ethanol production is tough on an ROI basis - something in the ball park of what Sandor suggests.  Optimistically 2:1.  

The things that make poplar and switchgrass and the other stuff appealing are 1) not as much labor tending the crop, 2) more yield (use the whole plant, not just the sugars) and 3) if you do it enzymatically, you don;t need to crank the stuff up to boiling and hold it whle the ethanol cooks off.  And the last bit, you can grow poplars in places you wouldn't or couldn't grow corn.  But it's still no oil.  

Steve


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