# Excel chimney worth the cost?



## TomInNH (Aug 18, 2011)

I'm getting an Jotul Oslo 500 soon and have no chimney yet.  I had a professional installer come out today to give me a quote, they only do fireplaces and chimneys and seem to have a very good reputation and skillset.  They want to use ICC's Excel chimey pipe, which is a brand I had not looked at yet (been looking at Duraplus and Selkirk mostly).  The price they quoted for the Excel parts is really high (~$2850) compared to about $1500 for Duraplus and $1900 for Selkirk.  He sung a nice song about how the Excel chimney pipe is the best available etc., but I knew to ask here for honest opinions.  Is Excel pipe really worth the extra expense?  I see it is rated to withstand longer chimney fires, but is that overkill?

Also does $500 for labor sound correct for thru the wall chimney installation?  (I'm building my own hearth pad and putting the stove in place myself)


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## begreen (Aug 18, 2011)

Welcome Tom. It's good pipe, but I'm surprised it would cost almost 100% more. Is it 100% better? Faced with the same choice I opted for DuraTech and have not regretted getting the Simpson pipe at all.


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## MasterMech (Aug 18, 2011)

Best reputation amongst the local installers here.  I just bought an Excel for my new stove. I'll let you know how I like it once it's installed.

Figured spending a little x-tra on the chimney would be better than worrying when I'm not at home and all the inconvenience of dealing with the insurance company after my house is a pile of ashes.


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## jeff_t (Aug 18, 2011)

They all have to meet minimum standards, though I think Excel goes beyond that. Properly installed, they're all going to get the job done.


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## ddddddden (Aug 18, 2011)

+1.  I've never seen an "I bought the cheap stainless pipe and it melted/cracked/failed" thread.    Not quoting any statistics, but it is my impression that the horror stories that induce the throwing of $$$ at the chimney are the result of bad installation or user error, burning wet wood and not cleaning the creosote out of the flue.  I understand that ICC is built and tested to a higher standard, but the only practical value I see is that it is tested for use after multiple chimney fires, whereas some lesser pipe is supposed to be replaced after one chimney fire.  Again though, the chimney fire is the result of bad wood / user error, not bad pipe. I'd take that extra $1k, buy 7-8 cords of wood, and stack it up to dry for a few years.  Do that and check/clean your flue periodically, and you won't have anything to worry about, assuming everything is installed properly.  BTW, the $500 install fee sounds pretty reasonable. Typical labor figure I see on here = $800-1200.  A lot of folks DIY too.


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## mhrischuk (Aug 18, 2011)

If they gave out a prize for looks, ICC would win hands down. I bought it because I tend to go premium with most everything I do that I know I will be looking at and using for years to come.

I did some pricing research and compared the 8" x 48" chimney pipe section.

Duratech $211
Selkirk $235
ICC $299

With the three sections I purchased it was $186 more than Selkirk. For me that one time outlay was for knowing I had the best you can buy. I got all of my ICC product for my Equinox install at discounted pricing off list and free shipping. A straight up chimney with double wall stove pipe and three 48" sections with all accessories cost me $1850 shipped.


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## firefighterjake (Aug 18, 2011)

I'm very happy with the ICC Excel pipe . . . but I suspect that any of the other Class A chimneys would work just as well.


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## 98dingo (Aug 18, 2011)

All the Class A pieces are going thru the same UL testing.  I can rarely justify installing a more expensive product unless its at the request of my customers.  Other wise Selkirk or Simpson do the job for my installs.


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## mhrischuk (Aug 18, 2011)

I think the Excel product will hold up better from a cosmetic point of view with every piece being stainless steel, inside and out. The only part not stainless are the support bars and they are quite beefy and heavily galvanized. From an installer point of view I can see your point. You like to provide value for the customer and help with the sale by providing more reasonable pricing. As far as passing the UL test, that's great but they could build it out of the crappiest materials and still pass.


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## TomInNH (Aug 18, 2011)

Thanks for all the advice.  This sure is an active forum!

Unfortunately, my chimney has to be at least 25 feet high so the price of pipe is far outweighing the cost of the stove! 

The top will be about 40 feet off the ground, so doing it myself is out.

I am getting a wood stove to save money*, but this is really adding up 

*also I've had a woodstove as primary heat before and it's wonderful


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## porkie (Aug 18, 2011)

TomInNH said:
			
		

> I'm getting an Jotul Oslo 500 soon and have no chimney yet.  I had a professional installer come out today to give me a quote, they only do fireplaces and chimneys and seem to have a very good reputation and skillset.  They want to use ICC's Excel chimey pipe, which is a brand I had not looked at yet (been looking at Duraplus and Selkirk mostly).  The price they quoted for the Excel parts is really high (~$2850) compared to about $1500 for Duraplus and $1900 for Selkirk.  He sung a nice song about how the Excel chimney pipe is the best available etc., but I knew to ask here for honest opinions.  Is Excel pipe really worth the extra expense?  I see it is rated to withstand longer chimney fires, but is that overkill?
> 
> Also does $500 for labor sound correct for thru the wall chimney installation?  (I'm building my own hearth pad and putting the stove in place myself)


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## 98dingo (Aug 18, 2011)

mhrischuk said:
			
		

> I think the Excel product will hold up better from a cosmetic point of view with every piece being stainless steel, inside and out. The only part not stainless are the support bars and they are quite beefy and heavily galvanized. From an installer point of view I can see your point. You like to provide value for the customer and help with the sale by providing more reasonable pricing. As far as passing the UL test, that's great but they could build it out of the crappiest materials and still pass.



All my products I use are stainless steel inner and outer.  I doubt big companies are gonna take a risk using a bad quality materials.  Its a huge liability they are taking by building these products and I would firmly believe they will use quality materials.


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## porkie (Aug 18, 2011)

I have about 30 or more of my old customers useing excel chimney pipe some are 15 or more years old some have had 1 or more fires in them with no damage after inspection the pipe is very simple to install i think your dealer price is quite high i would check with other dealers check with excel for other dealers in your area( best feature is that the insulation  is a blanket not poured in and will not settle


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## mhrischuk (Aug 18, 2011)

porkie said:
			
		

> I have about 30 or more of my old customers useing excel chimney pipe some are 15 or more years old some have had 1 or more fires in them with no damage after inspection the pipe is very simple to install i think your dealer price is quite high i would check with other dealers check with excel for other dealers in your area( best feature is that the insulation  is a blanket not poured in and will not settle



Looks to me like Roxul in there.


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## oldspark (Aug 18, 2011)

98dingo said:
			
		

> mhrischuk said:
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 Seems to be a misconception that the other brands of pipes are not SS inside and out but they are, you can buy galv. outside in some brands but no way would I do that.


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## mhrischuk (Aug 18, 2011)

So the question is is it worth the extra cost? Maybe not. Most likely the other brands that are made with similar materials at lower cost perform just as well and will last as long. As long as the parts quality is good and the chimney goes together as designed without issues than maybe paying extra for perceived superiority is just a waste of money. I've been guilty of this before.


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## oldspark (Aug 18, 2011)

It's good stuff no doubt, cant go wrong with it at all, if yu are on a budget and want to save a little money the other brands will last just as long IMHO. The flashing on the excel is SS which I really like, mine is galv but most flashings are galv.


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## mhrischuk (Aug 18, 2011)

oldspark said:
			
		

> The flashing on the excel is SS which I really like, mine is galv but most flashings are galv.



LOL it cost me alot to get that flashing.


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## ddddddden (Aug 18, 2011)

Hey, if you've got it, spend it.     Average it with the cost of your liner on the other end of the house for a better "household solid fuel venting cost."


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## Creature (Aug 18, 2011)

I'm no expert, installer, or someone in the industry.  Just your average first year burner, from Canada.

The ICC Excel chimney is tested to Canadian standards.

USA standard requires the chimney to withstand three 10-minute 2100Â°F chimney fires. The Canadian standard requires the chimney to withstand three 30-minute chimney fires.  Note that Canadian installations of ICC Excel chimney require additional parts to meet code, see the manual for more information.

For a comparison to the Simpson line, you should request a quote on the DuraPlus HTC line.  

For Selkirk products, I believe the UltraTemp line is the only one that supports all fuel and passes both Canadian and US standards, so that would be a fair comparison.

I bought ICC Excel, and that is my only experience with manufacured chimney.  My installer said he typically installs the Simpson chimney, but prefers the ICC Excel.  He said he believes it is engineered better, and he likes that it uses fasteners to hold the sections together (not twist-lock).


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## joefrompa (Aug 19, 2011)

Tom,

If you are doing this to save some money, get a different installer to give you a quote on a regular chimney. $1500 sounds about right for your sizing - maybe a bit more if you do some insulation too.

Save the $1200 and use $100 a year to get your chimney professionally cleaned out, and you'll never notice the difference or risk your house catching on fire.

Those pipes are gorgeous, but c'mon. I'm surprised the installer didn't ask you what you were burning for (save money) and recommend the cheaper option.

Any good installer, or provider of products or services, should stand there and represent their products fairly. If he doesn't believe in the cheaper option, he shouldn't be offering it. If he does believe in it, he should explain to you why he believes it's worth a near 100% price increase to a price conscious guy to get the more expensive pipe. If he hasn't done either of those things, find another installer.


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## mhrischuk (Aug 19, 2011)

joefrompa said:
			
		

> Tom,
> 
> Those pipes are gorgeous, but c'mon. I'm surprised the installer didn't ask you what you were burning for (save money) and recommend the cheaper option.
> 
> Any good installer, or provider of products or services, should stand there and represent their products fairly. If he doesn't believe in the cheaper option, he shouldn't be offering it. If he does believe in it, he should explain to you why he believes it's worth a near 100% price increase to a price conscious guy to get the more expensive pipe. If he hasn't done either of those things, find another installer.



100%?   I posted  a comparison earlier and it's not even close to double the price. I do agree if you are tight on cash or just don't have to have the Cadillac of pipes you can't go wrong with the other good name brands as others have said. Good doesn't necessarily mean expensive in all cases.

But Tom's quote seems real high.


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## begreen (Aug 19, 2011)

I think the point being that the installer seems to be asking for blood for a pipe that should be just a little more expensive. Functionally, the difference is minor.


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## turbocruiser (Aug 19, 2011)

Just as another data point, with 20ft worth of chimney the Excel system we chose was $200 US more than the MetalFab system that the stove shop typically installs.  Not sure how MetalFab SS Interior + SS Exterior compares in its price point to some of the other makes mentioned here (MetalFab also makes another "economy" chimney with SS Interior and Galvalum or Galvanized Exterior)?  

Interestingly, when I was trying to decide between the many chimney makes available around here, I called the tech lines to them all and asked all sorts of questions.  They universally were polite, professional and knowledgeable.   Then I called the tech line at Regency Fireplace Products and asked them.  They told me that any 6" Class A Chimney system would work.  They also told me that in their opinion ICC Excel is "the best of the best".  But they then again reminded that really any 6" Class A Chimney system would work.  

Now, here's the kicker to all those answers ... right in my installation manual it specifically states that the stove "must be connected to a factory-built chimney conforming to ULC S-629"  So, technically nothing that I was interested in OTHER THAN the Excel product would have met that mandate!  I'm sure it all would have worked but technically the Excel was the only option.

BTW, in the hope it helps, here's a thread that I started sorta mid stream in my research:

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/76075/


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## ddddddden (Aug 19, 2011)

I guess that means that you live in the Canadian Rockies, Turbocruiser.  As mentioned earlier in this thread, Simpson and Selkirk both make pipe that meets Canadian standards, but it costs more.  You Canucks must be pretty slack with your chimney cleaning to need such super fire-resistant pipe, eh?       :lol:


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## ddddddden (Aug 19, 2011)

Mhrischuk, Tom was probably quoted list price by the installer.  Even at the discounted price you posted, ICC is 40% more than Simpson.  Not an insignificant difference on 25+ ft of pipe.


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## ddddddden (Aug 19, 2011)

Tom, the best deal you will probably be able to find on class-A pipe is the SuperVent at Lowe's or Menard's.  ~ $20/ft, IIRC. You will find threads on it with critics expressing the same kind of "You'll burn your house down with that garbage" sentiment. You'll also find that some of these threads are several years old, and no problems with the SuperVent have been reported.  Turns out that this pipe is made by Selkirk, and yes, it passes the same testing that any pipe legal to sell in the US does.  My guess is that the guy who gave you the high quote wouldn't install pipe supplied by you for $500, since he wouldn't make any $ on the pipe, but you could find someone to install it, maybe for $800.


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## joefrompa (Aug 19, 2011)

mhrischuk said:
			
		

> 100%?   I posted  a comparison earlier and it's not even close to double the price. I do agree if you are tight on cash or just don't have to have the Cadillac of pipes you can't go wrong with the other good name brands as others have said. Good doesn't necessarily mean expensive in all cases.
> 
> But Tom's quote seems real high.



My point is that I question the installer because the installer is asking for near 100% increase without representing to him why there should be such a cost difference, and representing to him that he's willing to install both products.

I recognize the rip-off pricing here, i'm just saying that even if the installer wasn't ripping him off the service he's getting within that quote tells me to go to someone else.


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## 98dingo (Aug 19, 2011)

Den said:
			
		

> Tom, the best deal you will probably be able to find on class-A pipe is the SuperVent at Lowe's or Menard's.  ~ $20/ft, IIRC. You will find threads on it with critics expressing the same kind of "You'll burn your house down with that garbage" sentiment. You'll also find that some of these threads are several years old, and no problems with the SuperVent have been reported.  Turns out that this pipe is made by Selkirk, and yes, it passes the same testing that any pipe legal to sell in the US does.  My guess is that the guy who gave you the high quote wouldn't install pipe supplied by you for $500, since he wouldn't make any $ on the pipe, but you could find someone to install it, maybe for $800.


You are absolutely correct about the supervent.  Its made by selkirk and is essentially a renamed product to sell at the big box stores.  Same material, same warranty as the more pricey selkirk brands.  If I recall same connectors as well.


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## oldspark (Aug 19, 2011)

turbocruiser said:
			
		

> Just as another data point, with 20ft worth of chimney the Excel system we chose was $200 US more than the MetalFab system that the stove shop typically installs.  Not sure how MetalFab SS Interior + SS Exterior compares in its price point to some of the other makes mentioned here (MetalFab also makes another "economy" chimney with SS Interior and Galvalum or Galvanized Exterior)?
> 
> Interestingly, when I was trying to decide between the many chimney makes available around here, I called the tech lines to them all and asked all sorts of questions.  They universally were polite, professional and knowledgeable.   Then I called the tech line at Regency Fireplace Products and asked them.  They told me that any 6" Class A Chimney system would work.  They also told me that in their opinion ICC Excel is "the best of the best".  But they then again reminded that really any 6" Class A Chimney system would work.
> 
> ...


 There are other brands that meet that spec, I googled it.


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## mhrischuk (Aug 19, 2011)

oldspark said:
			
		

> turbocruiser said:
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And there are lots of automobiles that meet NTSA , EPA and DOT requirements.


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## turbocruiser (Aug 19, 2011)

oldspark said:
			
		

> turbocruiser said:
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Uhh, not to be argumentative at all but I was really referring to the "makes available around here" (in other words what the stove shop here has distributors for) and out of all those only the Excel was ULC S-629.  Thanks.


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## summit (Aug 19, 2011)

We've done Selkirk, Simpson, some metal-fab, and now only Excel... ICC makes great stuff, and include other sthings most co's have as an add on (for example: a support box comes with the fasteners, hangers, and pipe adaptor, whereas other co's charge extra for the other things you need to completely hook it up). No need to order size specific supports: they are all universal.. The laser welded seams are awesome, no leaks like you get with rolled seams from other co's... and the pipe slides together nice, no need to have to get a twist lock and band just right to accomodate an offset, etc. Is it worth the extra? It depends on you.. all chimney systems do pretty much the same job, but avoiding the added aggravation is priceless IMHO...

BTW 500 sounds about right for install to me: couple guys, truck, liability, insured, all the right tools, strong backs, and someone to call to fix any issues that may arise. Beware the guy who says he'll do it for 1/2 that: he'll show up lacking parts, pieces, and you won't hear from him ever again if you have issues after the install....


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## Ed Williams (Sep 25, 2013)

I've used most brands at one time or another over the last 30+ years, and since I first tried Excel, won't use any other. Fit, finish, Warranty, factory/distributor support, performance, etc., etc. does it for me. I love doing this work, but only ONCE per house. We have never had one single issue with Excel, ever. I like knowing that when I walk away from one of these installs, all it will ever need in future is swept, unless it gets physically clobbered, and even then replacement parts will be readily available. When I see folks' kids playing in the room where the stove is, I am reminded that in some areas compromise is silly, at best. The difference in initial cost is trivial when figured over the life of the system. If someone wants to save money, I advise they buy a Lopi, Avalon, Fireplace Xtrordinaire, or Woodstock Soapstone stove, with 6" outlet. This saves a bunch compared to any 8" stove due to the cost difference for 8" pipe. In my experience, 8" stoves are usually lower quality (older/poorer technology) than 6", especially compared to anything made by Travis Industries (Lopi and Avalon and Fireplace Xtrordinaire). As with most things in life, it's really about your priorities. Most folks don't need a Rolls Royce, but many can justify an Audi or a Mercedes when they consider performance, safety, serviceability, retained value, and life expectancy. Like I said, I love doing this work ONCE per house, and I have personally had to replace inferior (cheaper) chimneys several times, which resulted in greater cost overall than going with the good stuff in the first place, not to mention the superior performance over the entire life of the system. Another  way we justify the cost is that if one of our installs ever has any problems, ever, if my son or I are still among the living, we will fix it free, regardless of any limits on the factory warranty. You pays your money and you takes your choice... And no, we don't work in the East, unless someone wants to fly us there and put us up while we do the work. ;-)


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## begreen (Sep 25, 2013)

Excel is a great product, but others shouldn't be concerned if their chimney is DuraTech or SuperVent Ultra. I removed a 22 year old Metalbestos chimney when I remodeled the house. It was still in great shape. The bad chimneys I have taken out were victims of abuse or improper installation or just rust (galvalume). There's a middle ground here filled by good chimney companies. We don't all drive Audis or Mercedes. There are a whole lot of VWs on the road with millions of miles under them. Some responsibility is on the person running the fire. A Mercedes is no safer than a VW Passat without proper, routine maintenance. Install it correctly, clean it regularly and don't have any chimney fires.


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## Ed Williams (Sep 25, 2013)

Good points, we just lean toward the best due to our awesome guarantee. We feel that since we stand behind it 100%, no matter what, it's our privilege to use the stuff we prefer. Usually when folks pay a lot for something, they take better care of it, and in this case I know it will take great care of them. We do our best to make things idiot proof, even though there will always be bigger and better idiots... I agree that there are other good brands, and I also  know that Excel is arguably the best.


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## Ed Williams (Sep 25, 2013)

Again, any stove with a 6" outlet will cost less with Excel than an 8" stove with most if not all lesser brands. The time to save money is in the research/development phase, in my opinion.


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## rideau (Sep 25, 2013)

I have excel pipe and am very pleased with it, and glad I got excel pipe.  I was away last winter for a month and had someone staying at my house caring for my handicapped brother.  They, of course, used the wood stove, after considerable instruction. 

Was I ever glad when I got back that I had Excel pipe.  No worries about the burning technique/safety of the house with someone else using my stove.  Peace of mind.

I have often obtained quotes from workers both supplying the materials, and for labor only.  If the installer you are working with is willing to charge for labor only, and use pipe you supply, there is a place on the west coast that sells ICC at a good discount from list.  Look on line and figure what the pipe you would need would cost you.  Add your guys labor and see where you are.  Seems to me they are putting a good mark up on that pipe.


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## begreen (Sep 25, 2013)

This is a very old thread from 2011 guys. Excel is good pipe, nuff said.


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