# Top loading wood stoves.



## Maple man (Dec 6, 2012)

i was on the computer looking at a new stove for my friend and while looking i saw an older top loading stove my question is why would a stove manufacture build a stove that would let smoke and other gasses in to your home and does any one have a top loader and if you do how does it work.


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## BrowningBAR (Dec 6, 2012)

I've owned four top loading stoves, two currently. With a good draft, a top loading stove works just fine. Little to no smoke is involved.


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## jwoair23 (Dec 6, 2012)

BrowningBAR said:


> I've owned four top loading stoves, two currently. With a good draft, a top loading stove works just fine. Little to know smoke is involved.


Since you have experience, why would this be a design choice? Is there an advantage to a top loading stove? It just seems peculiar, how do you empty ashes?


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## Backwoods Savage (Dec 6, 2012)

When I grew up we had 2 top loading stoves and never had a problem with smoke in the house when opening the lid. I know of others who have top loaders now and there is no problem. We also have to remember that many of the top loaders are also a down draft stove.

I recall when we were last looking at new stoves we looked at a Lopi Leyden which is a top loader. There was a lady running the store and as we talked about different stoves she led us to the Leyden, which was burning at the time. She said she'd go get a few more logs to put into the stove (it was cold outside) so she opened the lid and then went in back for the wood. All the time she was gone there was no smoke or any smell coming from the open stove.

The top loaders can be nice and it is just one more way to design stoves.


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## BrowningBAR (Dec 6, 2012)

jwoair23 said:


> Since you have experience, why would this be a design choice? Is there an advantage to a top loading stove? It just seems peculiar, how do you empty ashes?


Well, all top loading stoves still have conventional front doors (VC, Jotul, Quadrafire, Harman, Lopi). All of them have some sort of ash pan usually, except the Vigilant I ran did not.

I like top loading over side loading and front loading as it is easier for me to place a split where I want and I never bump into a burn tube or baffle. I find it easier to stuff the stove full, when needed.

I probably like top loading more as it was what my first stove had (Vigilant).


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## chimneylinerjames (Dec 6, 2012)

Top loading stoves also have a door on the front. It is not top loading only. I am familiar with some of the Quadra-fire stoves. They have it when you open the top, the baffle tips down so you can add wood and blocks the smoke exiting directly out of the top, almost eliminating smoke coming out.


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## Maple man (Dec 6, 2012)

ok thanks fore the replies they don't sound as bad as i thought going to show my buddy this thread


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## greenbrierwv (Dec 6, 2012)

i had a VC Encore top/front loader. honestly, i love the top load feature.  smoke was not a problem and you could load that puppy to the gills at night.  but that was good and bad...ive gotten overzealous loading and have had to pull smoldering logs out and throw them into the snow.  ha.  only did that once and learned my lesson.  top loaders are handy!


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## MnDave (Dec 6, 2012)

I am sure that those that own top loading cast stoves love them and I am not putting down anyones stove.

I like the look of the cast stoves better than the plate steel stoves if that is any consolation for what I am about to say. 

IMO, IMO, IMO... IMO - I don't like east-west vs. north-south loading on cast stoves.

1) Because of the risk that a stuffed-to-the-gills stove will cause a log to roll against the door and maybe shatter the glass, and

2) Narrow east-west loading stoves will not have the "fire show" of a deep/wide north-south loading plate stove.

Given this, if you really want a cast top loader I would suggest the GF Isle Royal as it is very deep and would probably have a great fire show and hold a  big enough load for an overnight burn. i.e I think the box size is more efficient on a north-south loading stove because you can stack against the sides.

ok. I am ready for crucifiction.

MnDave


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## jwoair23 (Dec 6, 2012)

MnDave I can't believe you said that. I am stunned.

No actually I agree.  I would love to have a N/S stove, as I hate trying to get the balance of all my splits just right when loading it up for long burns, all the while having my hand/arm in the stove. It would be great to load them up with the sides as a balance point!


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## BrowningBAR (Dec 6, 2012)

MnDave said:


> Given this, if you really want a cast top loader I would suggest the GF Isle Royal as it is very deep and would probably have a great fire show and hold a big enough load for an overnight burn. i.e I think the box size is more efficient on a north-south loading stove because you can stack against the sides.


 
The Isle is not a deep stove and is an E/W loader.

Many of the E/W loading stoves have andirons (VC, Woodstock, Quad, Lopi) which prevent a split from rolling and hitting the glass.

I have found E/W loading provides longer burn times on the 30 than a N/S load.


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## firefighterjake (Dec 6, 2012)

[quote="MnDave, post: 1286702, member: 24589. . .

1) Because of the risk that a stuffed-to-the-gills stove will cause a log to roll against the door and maybe shatter the glass, and I have had a few splits roll up against the "glass" (neoceram) and have heard of other folks who have had this happen . . .* I honestly don't know of too many any folks who have had the "glass" crack with this happening with the newer stoves . . . maybe the older stoves. I have however heard of a few folks who have broke the neoceram by tossing in a split willy nilly or attempting to cram in a split by slamming the door on it and causing the glass to break. That said . . . it could happen in theory . . . just not sure how likely this is to happen from normal usage.*

2) Narrow east-west loading stoves will not have the "fire show" of a deep/wide north-south loading plate stove. *Not sure how narrow you're talking . . . the Oslo is relatively narrow and is pretty much set up for East-West loading . . . but it has very good secondary actions. Pretty sure this would be the case with many other stoves . . . not sure if a stove set up to burn "cigar" like like the old Jotuls and similar modern designs with a small viewing window would provide a good view . . . perhaps that was what you were refering to.*

. . .

ok. I am ready for crucifiction. *Hehheh . . . we try not to crucify anyone here for their beliefs . . . heck I think Dennis even likes and respects me even though we disagree on the whole horizontal vs. vertical splitting. *

MnDave[/quote]


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## jharkin (Dec 6, 2012)

Another vote for top load... Agree 100% with browning. When the draft is going air gets sucked down into the griddle when you open it.  I can load within 1/4 in of the roof...literally... Once in a while I stuff a piece in and the griddle won't close and I have to shuffle a bit  

Splits rolling on the glass has never been a problem with the andirons. And besides its ceramic... Tougher than it looks.


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## jharkin (Dec 6, 2012)

East west fire show... 5 minutes ago....


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## jwoair23 (Dec 6, 2012)

jharkin said:


> East west fire show... 5 minutes ago....


 
Are those circular posts sticking up the andirons mentioned up above? I have never seen that before, wish my stove had that!


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## jharkin (Dec 6, 2012)

Yup those are the andirons.


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## BrowningBAR (Dec 6, 2012)

jharkin said:


> East west fire show... 5 minutes ago....


Cheater! You still have the damper open


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## Defiant (Dec 6, 2012)

Love my top loader!!


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## dougand3 (Dec 6, 2012)

When I first got the Resolute Acclaim, I was wigged out with idea of opening the top "with a fire burning!" Once I did...and no hint of smoke or smell escaping - I'm like "Dayum! this is magic!" But it's physics - the smoke takes the path of least resistance toward the hot stove pipe drafting. Now, if you forget to open the bypass...that's another story.


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## BrowningBAR (Dec 6, 2012)

dougand3 said:


> Now, if you forget to open the bypass...that's another story.


5 years and four top loading stoves later, and I still do this ever so often...


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## jharkin (Dec 6, 2012)

BrowningBAR said:


> Cheater! You still have the damper open


 
Touche


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## nellraq (Dec 6, 2012)

Top loading stoves have been around for a long time.  My Ideal Clarion, built in 1878, is a top loader.  I used it for about 5 years in my previous house; and could put huge "chunks" of wood in through the top.  Never once did I get smoke in the house!  It doesn't have a bypass --if it did, knowing me, I would have had smoke in the house quite often 'cus I would have forgotten to open it!

The clarion is also a side loader and a front loader.


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## slindo (Dec 6, 2012)

I love toploaders. But unfortunately, if you want an EPA stove, the choice if you want one seems to be between stoves that have delicate and troublesome refractory chambers (VC and Lopi) and stoves that have bizarrely complicated inner mechanisms (Rangely and Isle Royale), and hence much smaller fireboxes and loading doors than one would expect.


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## MnDave (Dec 6, 2012)

Just wondering what is the main reason people get excited about top loaders - is it because you do not have to bend down and get on one knee to load then like the really stumpy front loaders (you know who you are)? Some front loaders are set right on the floor!

If that is the case I totally understand. My last stove (front loader plate steel) came with the house. It was on a hearth but a short one. I got sick of getting down on my knee to do anything in the stove.

So with my new stove I built the hearth 10 inches up off the floor and I got the pedestal version which added 4 inches (I think) over the legs.

It not only fixed the bending over problem but it made the stove look massive.

I went into the showroom today and saw my model on the floor and with the legs. It looked shrimpy compared to mine.

Anyway, If that is the main reason for top loading then this problem with frontloaders can be overcome with a tall hearth which will also add to the greatness of any size stove.

I do like the looks of a cast. My last home had a fireplace insert on the main floor and a cast stove on the lower floor.

I just wanted to give the OP another perspective.

MnDave


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## MnDave (Dec 6, 2012)

Along the same lines I just want to give any shop owners out there a heads up.

Put your stoves up on something so that the customer doesn't have to get down on his hands and knees to see your product.

You do not have to connect or build a surround. Just get it off the ground. They look tiny! And some people are there to get a big stove.

Done ranting. More crucifiction. J/K. 

MnDave


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## begreen (Dec 7, 2012)

MnDave said:


> 2) Narrow east-west loading stoves will not have the "fire show" of a deep/wide north-south loading plate stove.
> 
> 
> ok. I am ready for crucifiction.
> ...



Silly stuff. Better not tell this to Castine owners. Somehow with their shallow stoves they are getting a great secondary display. https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/castine-install-loads-of-pictures.45247/#post-567765


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## MnDave (Dec 7, 2012)

begreen said:


> Silly stuff. Better not tell this to Castine owners. Somehow with their shallow stoves they are getting a great secondary display. https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/castine-install-loads-of-pictures.45247/#post-567765


 
Ouch.
The shot from the front is just ok.
The shots from underneath the secondarys show that he has that cranked. Possibly overfired.

Keep in mind that I did not say that E/W loading stoves have a bad secondary display. I just think (and I qualified that with 4 IMO's) that the N/S is better.

The OP wants to help advise his friend on a stove purchase. It makes sense to give him more than one opinion.

I also have to acknowledge that there are shallow boxed N/S stoves. It just seems that in general most E/W stoves are narrow.

MnDave


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## Pallet Pete (Dec 7, 2012)

This is our second top loading stove and to be honest I would not trade it for the world ! Top loading is a very nice feature at times our primary use of the top load door is when we load mulberry or hedge wood and similar poppy sparkly types. It allows us to load and not worry about it sparking into the room at all. Plus it gives us a very nice steel cooktop to use and a grilling grate to set into it.

Pete


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## BrowningBAR (Dec 7, 2012)

MnDave said:


> Ouch.
> The shot from the front is just ok.
> The shots from underneath the secondarys show that he has that cranked. Possibly overfired.


If that is a photo of an overfired stove then I have overfired every stove I've owned. Seriously. That's a pretty standard looking burn when a stove is going..



> Keep in mind that I did not say that E/W loading stoves have a bad secondary display. I just think that the N/S is better.


I get better looking burns loading e/w than n/s on the 30, which is a front loader.



> The OP wants to help advise his friend on a stove purchase. It makes sense to give him more than one opinion.


You keep saying that, but OP just wanted to know how top loading stoves work and why they are designed that way.


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## MnDave (Dec 7, 2012)

Ok. I am tip-toeing to the exit.

MnDave


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## Jags (Dec 7, 2012)

slindo said:


> .... and stoves that have bizarrely complicated inner mechanisms (Rangely and Isle Royale), and hence much smaller fireboxes and loading doors than one would expect.


 
Bizarrely complicated inner mechanisms?? Its a lever. The first working tool man ever created beyond a stick. And at 3 cuft I wouldn't consider my Isle Royale a "smaller firebox". Not picking a fight, just clarifying for discussions sake.

And to the OP - no smoke on top loading with the IR.  But....I also don't use it much (if ever).  I prefer the front load.  Just my pref.


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## Pallet Pete (Dec 7, 2012)

slindo said:


> I love toploaders. But unfortunately, if you want an EPA stove, the choice if you want one seems to be between stoves that have delicate and troublesome refractory chambers (VC and Lopi) and stoves that have bizarrely complicated inner mechanisms (Rangely and Isle Royale), and hence much smaller fireboxes and loading doors than one would expect.


 

Have you even looked at at the Rangeley it could not be simpler ! It is simply a hooked plate on a tube that turns. As for the firebox size it is enormous I can stuff it up and go all night 12 hours and still be at 250 F on reload !

Sorry did not mean that rudely I am just surprised that it would be considered complicated.


Pete


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## SteveKG (Dec 7, 2012)

Out top-loader has been in constant winter use at our house since 1975. Trying to recall when we get smoke out of it when reloading, can't remember a time. It is a great heater. 

Also, as to "all top loaders have other front doors to load from"...nope. Mine only has a door in the top and ditto two of our neighbors.


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## BrowningBAR (Dec 7, 2012)

SteveKG said:


> Out top-loader has been in constant winter use at our house since 1975. Trying to recall when we get smoke out of it when reloading, can't remember a time. It is a great heater.
> 
> Also, as to "all top loaders have other front doors to load from"...nope. Mine only has a door in the top and ditto two of our neighbors.


What stoves are you and your neighbors running?


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## ddddddden (Dec 7, 2012)

MnDave said:


> I like the look of the cast stoves better than the plate steel stoves if that is any consolation for what I am about to say. . .
> IMO - I don't like east-west vs. north-south loading on cast stoves. . .
> 
> 2) Narrow east-west loading stoves will not have the "fire show" of a deep/wide north-south loading plate stove.
> ...


Side loading, Bro.
Side. Loading.

Many, if not most, of those good-lookin' cast stoves you lust after have a side door.
Side loading is where it's at!
(. . .or N-S loading in a deep stove. . .or possibly top loading, which I have not experienced.)

I think I know what you're trying to get at with the 'light show' theory, but I think this depends on a stove's air flow/combustion design, more than firebox shape. My relatively shallow firebox floats nice secondaies with E-W loads.





MnDave said:


> Just wondering what is the main reason people get excited about top loaders - is it because you do not have to bend down and get on one knee to load then like the really stumpy front loaders (you know who you are)? Some front loaders are set right on the floor!
> 
> If that is the case I totally understand. My last stove (front loader plate steel) came with the house. It was on a hearth but a short one. I got sick of getting down on my knee to do anything in the stove.
> 
> Anyway, If that is the main reason for top loading then this problem with frontloaders can be overcome with a tall hearth which will also add to the greatness of any size stove.


+1
This house came with a 20"-high hearth, and I wouldn't have it any other way. 




			
				MnDave said:
			
		

> Done ranting. More crucifiction. . .


 
All crucifiction has been postponed until after Christmas.


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## BrowningBAR (Dec 7, 2012)

ddddddden said:


> Side loading, Bro.
> Side. Loading.
> 
> Many, if not most, of those good-lookin' cast stoves you lust after have a side door.
> ...


I found side loading to be the more annoying of the three options (front, top, side). I might have a different opinion if I try a side loader with andirons. But, without the andirons, it was a pain.


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## ddddddden (Dec 7, 2012)

BrowningBAR said:


> I found side loading to be the more annoying of the three options (front, top, side). I might have a different opinion if I try a side loader with andirons. But, without the andirons, it was a pain.


I assume you mean keeping the splits off of the glass was a pain. . .
I dunno.  The good folks at Woodstock provided this stove with andirons. 

AFAICS, side loading(with andirons) is pretty much equivalent to N-S.
Of course, a square firebox that let you load N-S would also give you the option of loading E-W, or a combination of the two.  Having more options is always nice.  
I have to set 10" shorties aside for loading N-S on the bottom of an E-W load, which I like to do.


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## begreen (Dec 7, 2012)

MnDave said:


> Ouch.
> The shot from the front is just ok.
> The shots from underneath the secondarys show that he has that cranked. Possibly overfired.
> 
> ...


 
That really is BS. The stove is not close to overfiring. If you are not familiar with the stove, just say so.


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## flhpi (Dec 7, 2012)

I have had two top loaders and they were great to load. My Encore was on a raised hearth and I never had to bend down to load. Just a little word of caution, when the stove is on a raised hearth and is a top loader you can stand close to it while loading. Wear pants when reloading it. Each night I would load up the stove for a all night burn and had a too close for comfort situation once.


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## Woody Stover (Dec 7, 2012)

MnDave said:


> you do not have to bend down and get on one knee to load then like the really stumpy front loaders


Worse than that is if the stove is side-load only, and the door only opens to 90*. 
You can have nice, big andirons though. Great for cramming a small box full...


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## dougand3 (Dec 7, 2012)

flhpi said:


> Just a little word of caution, when the stove is on a raised hearth and is a top loader you can stand close to it while loading. Wear pants when reloading it.


 
Maybe get some Roxul boxer shorts for those night time loads???? May be some chafing in the morning, tho. LOL


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## Blue Vomit (Dec 7, 2012)

I was raised on an old VC top loader. 
I love my Oslo but...I'm still not used to side loading.
I miss the top loading feature.


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## Mitch Newton (Dec 8, 2012)

begreen said:


> That really is BS. The stove is not close to overfiring. If you are not familiar with the stove, just say so.


 
How about a little talcum powder for that spanking!


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## Flamestead (Dec 8, 2012)

MnDave said:


> Just wondering what is the main reason people get excited about top loaders - is it because you do not have to bend down and get on one knee to load then like the really stumpy front loaders (you know who you are)? Some front loaders are set right on the floor!


 

MnDave, I had been using a top loader (non-EPA) for the last 11 years. This Fall, with the new end-loading stove, I've been mulling over the differences. I don't mind bending over for the new stove, but I do feel I tend to make more of a mess on the hearth with the end-loader than with the top loader. I used to be able to brush my arms/shirt off over the open top loader, so there was almost no hearth mess.

My top loader was a round cover in the middle of a flat top, with no front or end door;  I can fit more more wood in with my end-load. Cleaning ashes was a little more difficult (I am really enjoying the grate/ash pan combo of the PH).

Back-puffs caused more anxiety with my top load because there was the possibility of having the top settle back partially open and have the fire run away with excess air. We kept a large teapot of water on it to help with that worry.

The top loader was excellent for safety with coals - zero chance of something falling out. Both of our daughters ran the stove, starting in their pre-teen years.


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## begreen (Dec 8, 2012)

Excellent points Flamestead. Our first stoves were top-loaders and I liked them for all of these reasons. However, I did get some regular burns on my hands and arms from them. It was harder to arrange wood pieces for a good full load packing. But this might also have been because ours was the smaller VC Resolute with the smaller opening. I rarely get a burn now with the large door opening on the T6, but Murphy's law says that I'll get one now that I've said this.


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## Jags (Dec 17, 2012)

Jimmie - I would highly recommend that you edit your contact info out of your post above and start a private conversation.  Protects your privacy a bit more.


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## corey21 (Dec 17, 2012)

jimmieguns said:


> Hello Defiant.
> 
> A friend recommended to contact you about a repair issue.
> 
> ...


 
I would not list that info on the forums i would do pm


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## MasterMech (Dec 17, 2012)

Modern Top-loading stove owner here.

The Rangeley has a simple hinged lid in between the secondary tubes to allow top-loading. Has a pivoting lever (small) to ensure you cannot leave the baffle open after closing the lid. It loads E-W or N-S, N-S will require slightly shorter splits than E-W but 16" splits fit just fine. It's actually a steel stove in cast iron clothing which offers the benefit of cast-iron looks/thermal mass with steel's low-maint durability. The ash pan is very functional, not requiring the user to find and pull a plug from the firebox floor to sweep ash into the pan. I just stir the coals and reload, the ash falls right through the grate into the removable pan.

I top-load to add a couple splits to a hot fire/coals and front-load when I need to load N-S or stuff it to the gills. Very happy with the Rangeley so far. Joutl also makes a non-top loading version of the Rangeley, sans ash pan , but a bigger firebox. Called the F55, so if the Rangeley is too complicated for ya' give that 'un a look.


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## Ashful (Dec 17, 2012)

dougand3 said:


> But it's physics - the smoke takes the path of least resistance toward the hot stove pipe drafting. Now, if you forget to open the bypass...that's another story.


 
My top-load door has a mechanism that automatically trips the bypass damper open.  I have more trouble with my front-load doors, as they have no such mechanism.  I often forget to open the bypass before opening the front doors.


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## Nuker (Dec 20, 2013)

SteveKG said:


> Out top-loader has been in constant winter use at our house since 1975. Trying to recall when we get smoke out of it when reloading, can't remember a time. It is a great heater.
> 
> Also, as to "all top loaders have other front doors to load from"...nope. Mine only has a door in the top and ditto two of our neighbors.


Ditto from me too, I have 2 top loaders with no front or side doors. They work very well.


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## begreen (Dec 20, 2013)

Nuker said:


> Ditto from me too, I have 2 top loaders with no front or side doors. They work very well.



SteveKG and Nuker, can you add your stoves to your signature line? That will give this better context. Thx.


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## Nuker (Dec 22, 2013)

begreen said:


> SteveKG and Nuker, can you add your stoves to your signature line? That will give this better context. Thx.


Done.


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