# Advice needed on wood stove for 1200 sq ft



## Timnus (May 1, 2013)

Hey everyone,

I have been reading here for a while and appreciate all the great input and first hand experience with various stoves, etc. on this forum. 

I am looking to install a wood stove this summer and heat with wood for years to come. Please give your advice as I try to select a good stove for our home.

I will start off with as much detail as I can muster:


Details about the home:

Ranch style home: 1200 sq ft (main floor with full basement below)
Home was built in 1972, has insulation in walls and ceiling and single pane windows are a bit drafty, but we plan to replace the older windows soon
Open floor plan with 8' ceilings
We are looking to put the stove in the middle of the house of the main floor (living room) and go straight up with the chimney through the roof (about 1 ft from the peak)
Details about the stove:

Cost is not "too" much of an issue - (want what will work best longterm)
Long burn times are desirable (10+ hours)
Large firebox is desirable
We like seeing flames
We are concerned about possibly having TOO MUCH heat with a larger stove (80+ degrees)
As I mentioned, I like the larger wood stoves (for longer burn times, larger capacity) but am concerned about getting something that will be too hot. 

Here are some stoves I am considering:

Englander 30 NC
Pacific Energy Summit
Pacific Energy Super 27
Woodstock Progress Hybrid


Is a catalytic stove a good option in this case? If so, what sizes would you recommend? Can this scenario work out with a large capacity Non-Cat?​


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## mellow (May 1, 2013)

I would go with the Woodstock Fireview or Keystone,  I think the Progress would heat you out of that room.   Large capacity non cat would not be able to burn like you want it to for long periods on low like a cat stove.


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## Bster13 (May 1, 2013)

It is generally one of the other...

CAT stove for long burn times or Non-CAT for nice flames.  If you wanted longish burn times with a Non-CAT stove, then you'd have to have a large firebox, which could heat you out of your house.


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## blades (May 1, 2013)

Long periods of relatively even heat= cat stove
NC30 1/2 the cost, 10 hours? yes, depending on wood species, hot then tapering down to reload
Likely find your best bet with the Woodstock

My nc30 in 2000sq ft ranch 1960 build, load about 5am get back about 5-6pm home is still above 65 most days wood is sugar maple /oak/ hickory/ red elm. Less dense woods not quite the same preformance but still reasonable, and 98% of the time reloadable without another match used.


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## jeff_t (May 1, 2013)

The PE Super Series stoves (Super 27, Spectrum, T5, Fusion) are capable of some really long burns for 2 cu ft non cats. I think the 30, Summit, and PH would be way too much.

For cat stoves, you may be okay with a BK Princess, Sirocco 30 or Chinook 30, but you probably won't get the flame show you want. There are smaller versions of the Chinook and Sirocco that may be a better fit, depending on insulation. Woodstock Keystone and Fireview would probably work better for you than the PH.

Whatever you do, you need to get a wood supply drying NOW if you plan on burning next winter. Fast drying stuff like ash, cherry, and soft maple. All modern stoves need dry wood to burn properly.


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## Bster13 (May 1, 2013)

BK Princess is rated for 1500-2500 sq ft for "real world heating" so that may be too large, but the smaller BK stuff make fit the bill.


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## StihlHead (May 1, 2013)

I would get a cat or a non-cat, and avoid the hybrids (expense & complexity). I can recommend the 30-NC. Approved for HUD, WA state, and the EPA. Non-cat, works just fine. It was super cheap on the HD deal last summer. See flames, large firebox, overnight burns not a problem. Too much heat, insert less wood. Never really had an issue here with too much or too little heat. 1350 sq ft dubba wyde with R13 insulation in the Cascades, plus a 300 sq foot dormer off the back which works as a heat shunt, if it gets too warm in the house, I open the sliding door to the sun room. I use a box fan blowing on the stove from one side to move the heat around the house (it doubles the efficiency). Lots of 30-NC owners here on this forum. I took their advice and when the deal came up on HD, I jumped at it. $650 delivered from VA to my living room. You could get a 13-NC, same design, smaller firebox (not as deep). However, you have a large basement, and if you wanna heat that, the 30 would be better. You can always burn less wood in a larger firebox, and that is exactly what I do. I usually burn a few logs at a time rather than jam it full.


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## Backwoods Savage (May 1, 2013)

Welcome to the forum Tim.

This does not sound like it will be a hard home to heat and placing the stove in the middle will help out a lot as will the straight up chimney. Many stoves are capable of giving a decent 10 hour burn and we get 12+ hours with our Fireview. The large firebox you state is desirable may or may not be needed. As stated, we can get long burn times from our Fireview which has a 2.2 cu. ft firebox. The Progress is much larger for sure and you can get even longer burn times. Also with the Progress you get much more heat from the front of the stove because of that large glass. Many state they get more heat from the Progress with the same amount of wood they used in the Fireview.

As for the amount of wood, that really depends upon what and how you are burning. When we installed the Fireview we cut our wood needs in half while heating more space and keeping the house much warmer. Although you say you don't want 80+ degrees, we do want that and have no problem getting it. I want to be really comfortable in my home and I don't want to have to wear heavy clothing when I am in the house.

Being concerned about too much heat makes the soapstone stove sound like it will fit your bill exactly. Before we bought our stove we kept reading and hearing about this "soft heat" which I could not really understand. However, after actually feeling the difference, we were amazed. So perhaps a higher temperature in your home may feel great to you. With the Fireview, we can be next to the stove or across the room and the feel of the heat is about the same. It is not the harsh heat you will get if standing next to a hot steel or cast stove. It truly is a soft heat.

You asked, "Is a catalytic stove a good option in this case? If so, what sizes would you recommend? Can this scenario work out with a large capacity Non-Cat?"

Either stove will work for you but from what you state is your preferences, I think a cat stove would suit you very well. As for size, the 1200 sq ft says a Fireview which has a 2.2 cu ft firebox. In addition, you will love the radiant heat which means you don't have to use a fan which will cause more of a draft in an already drafty home. In our home, the furthest point from the stove is about 40' and we have no problem keeping that far room warm. We did before we did some remodeling and adding insulation plus new windows. But even then, it was rare to want it warmer in the far room.


I can't let this post go without quizzing you on your fuel supply. Do you have the wood already put up? Will you be buying wood? What type of wood will you be burning? I believe the fuel you have to put into the stove is just as important, and maybe more so, than the stove itself. If you burn poor fuel (which sadly most new wood burners do), then you will get poor results.

The normal thing we see is folks putting in a lot of research on the stoves and get them installed. Then and only then do they start thinking of the fuel. That is a prescription for failure. Be sure to check in to the Wood Shed part of this forum for more advice on the fuel but be aware that most wood really needs a year to dry after it has been cut to length, split and then stacked. Some need more than a year, like oak. In addition, should you be buying your wood, expect all wood sellers to tell you their wood is seasoned. That is okay, but don't think it is ready to burn! We have numerous cases of people who believed their wood supplier that the wood was good only to find that it was fresh cut or freshly split, etc. Too much moisture in the wood. Until we learn how to burn water, it is best to get the wood way ahead of time and let Mother Nature do the drying for you. Around our place, we really hate it when we have to burn wood that has not been split and stacked for at least 3 years. The benefits are super fantastic!

Good luck to you.


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## Backwoods Savage (May 1, 2013)

Bster13 said:


> It is generally one of the other...
> 
> CAT stove for long burn times or Non-CAT for nice flames. If you wanted longish burn times with a Non-CAT stove, then you'd have to have a large firebox, which could heat you out of your house.


 
Bster13, I've read your statement about the cat vs non-cat many times now and have to say I do not fully agree with you. You are correct with the long burn times in a cat stove but perhaps you are not aware just how good the flame show is in a good cat stove. Several videos have been posted on this forum showing some of the nice light shows given with a cat stove. I can post a few if you wish to view them.


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## Bster13 (May 1, 2013)

My BK Princess Insert will certainly give a light show and keep it going given a high enough setting on the thermostat but from what I read (Just got the stove so only have a small sample size of burns to confirm) most users dampen down the thermostat for general burning and there goes the light show.  Based off my limited experience, I certainly saw the same thing, but again I've only burned a few times and that's been in the relatively warm spring time.  In the dead of winter I may need the thermostat set higher and thus more light show.  We'll see!


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## Backwoods Savage (May 1, 2013)

Indeed we can, if we wish, damper down the stove to no flame at all. However, we, and most users do keep flame in the firebox throughout the burn. I think you'll be happy.


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## Timnus (May 1, 2013)

Yes, I do have a wood supply started, probably 6 cord of wood drying since last summer.  But I definitely plan to cut a ton more this summer and have it drying for years to come.  (I live next to 50 acres of free firewood, so it makes it pretty quick with the right tools). 

Dennis, thanks for describing the view of the fire and the soft heat from the soapstone.


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## Backwoods Savage (May 1, 2013)

You are welcome Tim. And it sounds like you have things in hand so my hat is off to you.

Not a good picture but this is one I took to show folks when I put a wood rack on the porch. We have a 16" raised hearth so we don't have to stoop to fill the firebox. We actually sit on a chair while loading. When the stove needs wood, we just walk out on the porch and grab 3 or 4 splits. Quick and easy and this way we do not have to store wood inside the house which is something we really do not like to do. Oh, and yes, the wood rack has been painted since this picture was taken.


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## raybonz (May 1, 2013)

I agree the WS Fireview would be best for you..

Ray


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## Dix (May 1, 2013)

Backwoods Savage said:


> I can't let this post go without quizzing you on your fuel supply. Do you have the wood already put up? Will you be buying wood? What type of wood will you be burning? I believe the fuel you have to put into the stove is just as important, and maybe more so, than the stove itself. If you burn poor fuel (which sadly most new wood burners do), then you will get poor results.


 
Of course you can't let it go, Dennis.



The quizzing, that is.


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## Ram 1500 with an axe... (May 1, 2013)

Backwoods Savage said:


> You are welcome Tim. And it sounds like you have things in hand so my hat is off to you.
> 
> Not a good picture but this is one I took to show folks when I put a wood rack on the porch. We have a 16" raised hearth so we don't have to stoop to fill the firebox. We actually sit on a chair while loading. When the stove needs wood, we just walk out on the porch and grab 3 or 4 splits. Quick and easy and this way we do not have to store wood inside the house which is something we really do not like to do. Oh, and yes, the wood rack has been painted since this picture was taken.
> 
> View attachment 101056


Great pic


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## begreen (May 1, 2013)

If you are looking at PE stoves I would get the Super27, not the Summit. The Super 27 has excellent burn times. You might also check out the Alderlea T5. It has the same firebox as the Super 27, but has a cast iron jacket that evens out temperature swings nicely.


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## Seanm (May 2, 2013)

begreen said:


> If you are looking at PE stoves I would get the Super27


 Although I wish I had gone with a bigger stove (never heard that before eh?) our super 27 handles our 2600 sq ft house down to -23c without the furnace kicking in (we live in Sparwood BC). We have stopped burning our 'good wood' larch this spring and are burning lodgepole pine which is very dry, and with the load I just put in at 11:15 pm my wife will have good coals at 9 am after the kids go to school to get it going again without a match. Ive put some big splits in there but did not fill the box. I enjoy this stove very much and would love to test it on some hard wood to see how it would do.


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## StihlHead (May 2, 2013)

Western Larch is good wood, and I find it burns a lot better than most people give it credit for; as good or better than a lot of hardwoods around here anyway. Some list it as high in energy as Oregon white oak, though I think it is closer to Doug fir in energy value. Lodgepole is also one of the better pines for heat (about the same as bigleaf maple).


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## begreen (May 2, 2013)

The Summit is a great stove, but too large for 1200 sq ft unless it's a leaky sieve. Run right, the Super 27 or T5 will match it for burn times. I think Tom Oyen got something like 16 hrs out of one.

Tamarack is excellent firewood.


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## Timnus (May 2, 2013)

So, here are a couple of other questions since I am looking to narrow down the type and size of the stove:


Can you use a Cat. stove that is rated above 1200 sq ft but turn it down more?  It shows a range of 12,000 - 73,000 Btu on the Progress Hybrid.  Would there be any issue with getting a larger size firebox, but burning it at the lower end?
The same question as #1, but for a Non-Cat stove.  Is there any issue with burning a smaller fire inside a larger firebox?  It seems that the only difference between a small stove and a large stove with the same size fire would be the temperature of the exterior of the stove.  But there is probably more to it than that...
I was comparing the Woodstock Fireview to the Blaze King Sirocco 20.  Why is the burn time so much greater for the Blaze King than the Fireview?  It seems that this is the case for any Blaze King - it has a longer burn time listed for any of the comparable Woodstock stoves.
 
Thanks everyone for all the great input, keep it coming!


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## Timnus (May 2, 2013)

I'll just add in that I have read a number of posts talking about the problem with getting TOO SMALL of a stove.  So, this is why I am leaning towards the larger firebox size, but obviously don't want to go TOO BIG either.


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## mellow (May 2, 2013)

Timnus said:


> Can you use a Cat. stove that is rated above 1200 sq ft but turn it down more? It shows a range of 12,000 - 73,000 Btu on the Progress Hybrid. Would there be any issue with getting a larger size firebox, but burning it at the lower end?




 
I think this post in the buy/sell will answer that question: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/2012-progress-hybrid-w-updates.108842/

Woodstock is conservative with their burn times, BUT the bi-metallic coil that BK has on it's stoves does help extend the burn times.


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## begreen (May 2, 2013)

You can overdo it, especially with a non-cat. In cat I would look at the WS keystone, BK Sirocco 20 and the small Buck cat (20?). In non-cat A long burning 2 cu Ft stove should work fine.


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## Backwoods Savage (May 2, 2013)

Timnus said:


> So, here are a couple of other questions since I am looking to narrow down the type and size of the stove:
> 
> 
> Can you use a Cat. stove that is rated above 1200 sq ft but turn it down more? It shows a range of 12,000 - 73,000 Btu on the Progress Hybrid. Would there be any issue with getting a larger size firebox, but burning it at the lower end?
> ...


 

In the end you may be happy with either stove. Good luck.


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## raybonz (May 2, 2013)

I feel the PH is too much stove for 1200 sq. ft. unless you live in a home made out of Swiss cheese. The Fireview will provide a good view of the fire and give long burn times and be less likely to cook you out of the house than the PH. Don't get me wrong I love the PH it is simply too large for 1200 sq. ft. unless you live in Siberia..

Ray


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## westkywood (May 2, 2013)

Another vote on the PE Super 27. I have 1300 sq ft to heat. I have good insulation in the attic, new windows and half my walls are insulated. It's perfect size for my house and for my area. I get long burns. Good flame and lots of heat.


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## PA Fire Bug (May 2, 2013)

We bought both of our Super 27s from the Fireside Shop in Lakemont (1332 Logan Blvd).  When we bought the first one, they didn't have any in stock so I drove to a shop in Burnham to see the stove.  I had reviewed the photos and specs on the PE web site but didn't want to buy a stove without actually seeing it.  At that time, none of the other local dealers sold PE stoves.  They may now - I don't know.  Good luck making the final decision. There are several other members who live in the Central PA area.  I started from scratch (no stove, no chainsaw, no firewood) and have gathered a lot of great advice from fellow forum members.


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## westkywood (May 2, 2013)

Seanm said:


> Although I wish I had gone with a bigger stove (never heard that before eh?) our super 27 handles our 2600 sq ft house down to -23c without the furnace kicking in (we live in Sparwood BC). We have stopped burning our 'good wood' larch this spring and are burning lodgepole pine which is very dry, and with the load I just put in at 11:15 pm my wife will have good coals at 9 am after the kids go to school to get it going again without a match. Ive put some big splits in there but did not fill the box. I enjoy this stove very much and would love to test it on some hard wood to see how it would do.


 
Wow. You're heating twice the area I am with my Super 27. I have an old house and when the wind blows hard ( say 20-30mph ), I can tell a huge difference in how my house heats. You must live in a newer home. If it's 15f outside with no wind, my stove will heat my house fine. But that wind picks up, the house cools off quite a bit. I've insulated some walls and have good insulation in my attic and I have added new windows.  I'm impressed with your results.


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## Seanm (May 3, 2013)

westkywood said:


> Wow. You're heating twice the area I am with my Super 27. I have an old house and when the wind blows hard ( say 20-30mph ), I can tell a huge difference in how my house heats. You must live in a newer home. If it's 15f outside with no wind, my stove will heat my house fine. But that wind picks up, the house cools off quite a bit. I've insulated some walls and have good insulation in my attic and I have added new windows. I'm impressed with your results.


 Ive had fun reading about peoples older homes on this site.... I love the history they have. We have a 1982 built split level house with 2x6 insulated exterior walls, vinyl siding that has a bit of foam insulation on the back of each, modern thermal windows, a basement that is 3/4 underground, and an original natural gas furnace that looks ready to die. If you are a gardener we are a 3.5 zone where -30c is common each winter (but not this one) it doesnt stay to long and -20c is a normal thing with the mean temperature in January being -11c. Ive only seen it hit -40c a few times in the 13 years ive lived here. I remember a freak cold spell in mid april where a friend and I were able to climb a newly frozen waterfall. The key point which maybe I should have mentioned in my post is that we are self employed and are in and out of the house all day so once we have the basement warmed up we are around to fill the stove again when needed and this helps keep the walls, ceiling, furniture etc up to temperature which helps a boat load. In the past when we have been gone for the day and its arctic outside we have had a hard time getting the house up to temps. If I was gone for 12 hours a day I would have very different results. FYI We live in a windy area and boy do we notice it when the wind blows! The stove has to work extra hard.


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## Chitty (May 3, 2013)

PLEASE! do not buy too small of a stove! As far as newer stoves go and extended burn times the _small fireboxes_ they are forced into supplying to meet emmision standards give a short heat cycle (even in the so called BIG stoves of 3-4 cubic ft firebox)  The problem you will come to see is that when the stoves are loaded up, wood is charred and then set to lower setting for long burn time is that during the 12 hours of the burn the btu output is averaged by the manufacterer.
In another way of seeing this if all the btu's the stove puts out during this period a percentage will also be lost depending on the insulation factor of your house and the outside air temperature.
I live in a 750 ft up log home with a 750 ft cinder block basement in central B.C. Single pane windows, fair share of drafts, and moderate insulation. During -15 C outside no problems. Drops to -30 C and below better be raging that fire steady and that means keeping it loaded up to good btu output range at all times. If you allow it to do the 12 hour burn cycle they brag about the last 6 hours of the burn, the btu output is similar to having a turkey in the electric oven!  At least it seems like lol.
I researched EPA stoves and installed a PE summit, new solid 6" stainless liner in an existing masonry chimney ( which is centered in housea nd once stove has heated also works as a good radiant heat source of 80-85 F) and burn almost exclusively Fir during the winter.Cost was pushing $4k and installed myself with inspector brought in to ensure was to code. The square foot ratings they all say it will heat (3000 in this case) are biased towards the warmer climate zones, perfect insulation etc. so beware of All manufacterers ratings. I sure won't sell you a new car living on the flatland prairies and tell you it will only do 45 mph up the steep hills in the mountains should you decide to take a road trip, would I?
Buy your stove with this in mind, you wanna cruise down the winter highway in a average sized car with all season tires and you'll probably be OK. Then it turns night and its snowing, and its cold, and it's slippery and ther's that darn hill. Now don't you wish you could lock in the 4 wheel drive hit the nice big lights and crank up the heat? Yep thats what I thought.
Don't be afraid of the so called Big stoves.
 Physics show that a  fire needs two pieces of wood reacting together to continue to burn ( one piece alone burns itself out). I can run my summit with a little bit of wood for warmer temps or I can load her up for the long haul and the big btu's. 
We cannot compare to heating your house with a gas furnace you do not and should not oversize as a gas furnace. When it is on, output is a given btu every time it is kicked in and to much btu in a small house makes a very short cycle to get it up to temp.Not good for the furnace. 
A wood stove does not put out max btu every time you run it depending on how you run it. If you buy a small stove and are hitting the max btu ouput in -10 then good luck therafter. No more room for wood no more btu's. If it turns cold with single pane windows and drafts and you are losing much more btu's than the ideal home also good luck.
I have also installed a central electric furnace with the same theory as wood heat. The house square footage calls for 10-15 kw sized electric furnace. I installed a 20kw furnace . Too big I know. HOWEVER the 20 kw furnace has the option of a Mild or Cold switch. Cool outside I leave it on mild and only 2 of the 5 elements heat.( ie small fire) Cold outside I hit the switch to Cold and all elements (5) will heat and I get big fire Btu when we need it.
I am also not a fan of catylitic stoves as you will be replacing components gaurenteed every 3-5 years ( although I know you will hear stories otherwise) , and the parts don't fall of the trees in the 50 acre lot next door. A bigger hotter fire is necassary to burn them properly and sizing is more crucial to each residence.
 Wood heating is an investment but the idea is to have an alternative economical heat, that as of yet, is not so price controlled by the energy moguls.
Invest your money wisely up front, and don't make do with something that might just do the trick. To make the mistake and undersize you won't be happy. Make the mistake and oversize? Run a moderate fire part of the day or open a window and get some fresh air in the house midwinter, the air gets stale anyway!
Just my opinion and best of luck!


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## Bster13 (May 3, 2013)

I just purchased a Blaze King Princess Insert, here is what my warranty card for the CAT looks like:
http://www.blazeking.com/PDF/10_year_combustor_Extended_Warranty_Aug2012.pdf

With proper burning technique, I'm not worried about it lasting a good long time, but of course there are more experienced folks on this forum who can give their experience.  IMO the cost of a CAT after the warranty expires is paid for by the more efficient use of wood.


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## jeff_t (May 3, 2013)

Welcome. That's a heckuva first post. 

Some pretty good points, but you're heating a drafty log home in BC, from an uninsulated basement, with softwood. The OP lives in central PA, and wants to put his stove in the living room. It is quite possible to go too big.

Not sure where your statement on cat stoves came from. The biggest advantage is the ability to slow it down, let it smolder, and let the cat clean up the smoke. My stove should be way oversized for my 1600 sq ft home, but it's perfect because of the low burn capabilities. Well, that and some decent drafts and marginal insulation.


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## begreen (May 3, 2013)

As I said earlier, there is no reason for overkill unless you are heating a leaky sieve of a house. It takes a lot of btus to heat the great outdoors, but in my book that is a big waste of wood and the time it takes to cut, split, stack, load and reload it. Personally I would spend the money on tightening up and insulating the joint if that was the case. It has a much better return on investment.

Point in comparison, we are heating a house almost 3 times the size of Chitty's with the same sized firebox. Next door neighbor is heating his old, 1600 sq ft farmhouse with a PE Spectrum and complains at times that it's too much heat.


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## Chitty (May 3, 2013)

Did not mean to overdo the first post ! lol
In regards to the warranties on the cats, the manufacterers will decide wether you get a refund or not. Similar to most corporations it is highly likely that operating practice, misuse, too wet of wood, overfiring, etc etc will be the finding most times. Roll the dice as you may.

As far as living in a leaky sieve I agree that a drafty log house in a cold climate does not directly relate to an air tight home in a warm climate. However I can efficiantly heat on warmer days and also have the ability to stay warm on the colder days even if the power goes out.

Overheating your house is a matter of burning a big fire just because you have a big stove. IMO on a colder night when you need a larger BTU output you will be awfully frustrated when trying to stuff wood in a minature fiebox.
I personally have a hard time loading the summit without custom splitting the wood to fit the firebox, and by the time you split the wood small enough to fill it to a decent capacity, and arrange them like a jigsaw puzzle, you'll wish you had a bigger stove.

Wether it is a cat stove or a good epa certified reburn stove the efficiencies are similar in real life. The goal is a clean burn, clean chimney and maximize the energy in the wood species you burn. This is very much controlled by the learned operation of your particular stove.

This house was heated for decades with a home built stove encased in cinder block for thermal retention. The stove could be loaded up with 4-5 unsplit rounds 7-8" in diameter and 3-4 feet long. Wow a lot of wood yes. How often was it filled? Once a day when it was cold cold. How easy was it to fill and how much splitting, monitoring time and processing time was saved? Lots. How effecient was it? Not like the new ones at all i am sure. Did it keep the home comfortable and liveable as a sole heat source? yes. Could you still have a smaller fire on warmer days? yes.

Essentially everyones needs are different, wood is different, houses different, stove sizes are different. Once you purchase a stove you won't want to sell it and buy something else for quite some time. Do you want to heat the home or supplement it with a cozy fire to look at?

In a nutshell it is a gamble that you are educating yourself on and I commend you on that!

Overall advice don't buy a powerfull diesel pickup if all you do is pick up groceries. However if the need arises don't expect the compact import to perform the duties of a workhorse vehicle either.

Again best of luck on your journey to wood heat! Hopefully you love it as much as a lot of us!


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## Chitty (May 3, 2013)

begreen said:


> As I said earlier, there is no reason for overkill unless you are heating a leaky sieve of a house. It takes a lot of btus to heat the great outdoors, but in my book that is a big waste of wood and the time it takes to cut, split, stack, load and reload it. Personally I would spend the money on tightening up and insulating the joint if that was the case. It has a much better return on investment.
> 
> Point in comparison, we are heating a house almost 3 times the size of Chitty's with the same sized firebox. Next door neighbor is heating his old, 1600 sq ft farmhouse with a PE Spectrum and complains at times that it's too much heat.


 
South Pugent Sound as compared to elavation of 3000 ft , 3-4 feet of snow, - 20-40 C winters is definately not a similar situation agreed.
 As far as a leaky seive some additional insulation and better windows will be coming soon, however some drafting I prefer. Airtight houses are not healthy nor are a lot of the products used to seal them up. I have the abilty to crack a window for fresh clean air when needed and do not have to breathe recycled gas I passed this morning lol !

As a note I have a fresh air intake plumbed to the summit under the basement floor so all combustion air comes from outside. When dealing with draft issues this is beneficial as the stove while burning does not vacuum the house and pull cold air in to expell the smoke and fumes out the chimney. Air out means air in and beleive me you will experince this and know wher the drafts are.
 Very important if you are also running forced air furnace of any kind. If the room you have your wood stove in is not appropriately pressure balanced during forced air operation backdrafting at low fire times is a real and potentially deadly issue.This is a much safer install method for Carbon monoxide issues etc.

Again I would pay closer attention to the area you live in and the people that burn wood there, their square footage and the insulation factors of their dwellings. The information will be more relevant to your situation and needs. Stove quality, safety concerns and general feedback here is awesome tho!


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## alforit (May 3, 2013)

Chitty said:


> Overall advice don't buy a powerfull diesel pickup if all you do is pick up groceries. However if the need arises don't expect the compact import to perform the duties of a workhorse vehicle either.


 

I think it should be noted that a Blaze King is an exception here..............A BK can perform the duties of both the powerful diesel pickup and the compact import..............Just ask an owner of one in alaska (of which there are many) that need that high btu output, or western washington where the need is a much lower btu output that doesn't cook you out of your house.


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## raybonz (May 3, 2013)

Come on a 2.0 cu. ft. stove will more than adequate for 1200 sq. ft. in PA.! Get a good quality stove like the WS Fireview and you won't be sorry!.. Yes you could use a T-5 or Super 27 and I run a T-5 here in SE Mass. for 1632 sq. ft. and at times it can be too warm so I have to pay attention but it is doable.. This is why I am steering you to the Fireview even though I run a T-5.. This isn't about me it's about you! Burning a 3.0 cu. ft. stove in a 1200 sq. ft. home in PA. would be a mistake in my opinion..

Good luck!

Ray


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## stovelark (May 3, 2013)

Hi Tim,   good choices all above, you can get all around pretty burn, longer burn times, reasonable pricing too. I'd check out the P/E Alderlea T5 like BG mentioned above, also the Enviro Kodiak 1200/1700 and Boston 1200/1700. The Boston is the same as Kodiak inside just cast iron jacketing like the P/E stoves BG mentioned.  You get the convection flow for the outer areas of the home, and the radiant heat nearer to the stove.  All stoves mentioned would be great, just remember good dry wood. Do that and the stove will do the rest. Welcome aboard too.


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## begreen (May 3, 2013)

Chitty said:


> South Pugent Sound as compared to elavation of 3000 ft , 3-4 feet of snow, - 20-40 C winters is definately not a similar situation agreed.
> As far as a leaky seive some additional insulation and better windows will be coming soon, however some drafting I prefer. Airtight houses are not healthy nor are a lot of the products used to seal them up. I have the abilty to crack a window for fresh clean air when needed and do not have to breathe recycled gas I passed this morning lol !
> 
> As a note I have a fresh air intake plumbed to the summit under the basement floor so all combustion air comes from outside. When dealing with draft issues this is beneficial as the stove while burning does not vacuum the house and pull cold air in to expell the smoke and fumes out the chimney. Air out means air in and beleive me you will experince this and know wher the drafts are.
> ...


 

Last I checked this fellow is in Altoona, PA. Not in a log cabin in central BC.


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## hman (May 4, 2013)

I would look at the Kuma Tamarack wood stove.I get great burn times,good secondary light show,burns clean,and can load n/s or e/w with 16" wood.


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## Timnus (May 4, 2013)

Thanks everyone so far.  I'm still sorting through my options for the type and size of stove.  It is extremely helpful to have all your input. For now, I had a few more questions:


Is it possible to heat my basement with the stove on the 1st floor of my ranch house?  We plan to finish our basement soon as it is rather dry and clean.  Any way to do an air exchange?  We are in the remodel process, so any ideas are on the table.
I thought I would ask again about comparing the Progress Hybrid vs. the Fireview.  I like the look of the Progress Hybrid a bit better and like that it has a larger fire box for odd shaped wood, etc.  So, my question is about the range of BTU's on each. 
                 The Progress Hybrid:  12,000 -73,000 BTU

                 The Fireview:  10,000 - 42,000 BTU

I agree that I would not need the high end of the Progress Hybrid much, but is there any issue with running the Progress Hybrid at mid range most of the time?  Or with the same sized fire I would put into the Fireview?​ 


One factor with my house is that it is at a top of a hill and gets a good amount of wind that takes heat away fast.  Also, the insulation is from 1972, and from a few places I have opened up it is not in the best of shape.  So, it is not very well insulated, but certainly has some.  Another factor would be that I plan to enclose the back porch in the next few years, which would add about 350 more sq ft to the house.  So, I just want to be sure that the stove will be big enough to handle any future needs. 


Thanks,
Tim


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## begreen (May 4, 2013)

What are you currently heating the house with? How much fuel is used in an average December or January? With a little math that will tell you how many btus you are currently using to heat the place. Then you can decide if you want a stove you can run most of the time with a bit of supplemental heat from the central heating system or a stove that will cover the worst conditions, but may not be practical until it gets below 45 or 50F outside. Both are practical considerations.


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## Timnus (May 4, 2013)

I am currently heating with an OLD forced hot air oil furnace.  It is very inefficient - 60% is what the plumber estimated.  So, I'm not too sure how to estimate the BTU's from that.


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## Backwoods Savage (May 4, 2013)

Tim, you are going by the epa figures for btu output. This is just by their standard tests and does not state what the true output of any stove can be. So figure the Fireview as 55,000 maximum output and the Progress as 80,000. Still, this is the maximum so you will not be receiving that output for long periods. You can figure that on reloads you can get the high btu output but then through the burn the output slowly decreases. For example, I can load 4 splits into our Fireview and get the stovetop to over 600 degrees. However, it won't stay there a long time because there just is not that much fuel there. But it will stay between 400-600 for a long time. Last fall and early winter we normally put in 3 or 4 splits for our overnight fires and were plenty warm and still had coals to start the next fire. And our splits are what most would call medium sized splits. For example, a rectangle shaped split might measure 3" x 5" x 16" long. We also are burning mostly white ash. In mid winter when it get cold, then we use lots of oak for the night burns and stay with ash for daytime.


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## dougstove (May 4, 2013)

PE Super 27 is a great stove, and I love it.


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## Seasoned Oak (May 4, 2013)

If you were putting it in the basement i would recommend a Harman TL-300(Non cat-long burn times) like mine but mine has a tendency to overheat the room its in. Even on the lowest air setting the stove room hovers in the 90s in my basement. But the floor above a comfortable 75 with warm floors.


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## begreen (May 5, 2013)

Timnus said:


> I am currently heating with an OLD forced hot air oil furnace. It is very inefficient - 60% is what the plumber estimated. So, I'm not too sure how to estimate the BTU's from that.


 
Is this a hot water boiler? How many gallons of oil or gas are you going through a month during December and January?


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## Timnus (May 5, 2013)

It is not a boiler, but forced hot air.  We were going through 150 gallons per month in the middle of winter.  Which is very expensive.  This is why we are ready to switch to wood for sure now and the cost of the stove is not too big a deal.  The old oil furnace is 60% or less efficient.


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## begreen (May 5, 2013)

That equates to about 29,166 btus/hr.. I suspect the plumber might exaggerating the efficiency a bit unless the ductwork is in bad shape. But taking his 60% we would come up at 17,500 usable btus/hr being delivered into the house. (At 70% it would be 20,416.) If that is correct, it looks like the Keystone or Fireview might be a better fit based on those numbers. Either should easily be able to handle the load. The Progress could fit but it would be working at the low end and that is during the coldest weather. During shoulder season burning it might be too much.

If you haven't already done so, you might want to also consider having the ductwork sealed and insulated. That will make a significant drop in heat loss in the system.


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## Timnus (May 5, 2013)

Thanks begreen.  I follow that now with the 140,000 BTU / gallon of oil.  It is true that the ductwork is in bad shape in places, so thanks for the tip.


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## Bub381 (May 5, 2013)

I will give you my experience with a woodstove with a 2.6cu in firebox in a 1300 sq ft uninsulated house.I had to run in at no more than 350 degrees and the creosote was dripping from my chimney cap and 1 night it caught fire and was falling on the roof.That'll scare ya.Couldn't burn it hotter because i was getting my stove room around 100 degrees with fans running.A small fire will not light off your 2ndarys so they wont be of much good.If you get bigger than a Fireview you will be sorry but hey,that's y they have their 6 month no cost to you return policy.How'd i do Dennis?


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## Backwoods Savage (May 5, 2013)

You did fine Bub.   And I know you love your Fireview as much as we love ours.


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## Timnus (May 5, 2013)

Wow, thanks Duane.  That sounds pretty definite then on the size of the stove (as many others have pointed out also).   I will call up Woodstock tomorrow and talk with them about things as well.

Tim


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## Backwoods Savage (May 5, 2013)

Tim, tell them where you got the information. They will like that.


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## Chitty (May 6, 2013)

begreen said:


> ( As you posted ) "Last I checked this fellow is in Altoona, PA. Not in a log cabin in central BC.


Point in comparison, we are heating a house almost 3 times the size of Chitty's with the same sized firebox. Next door neighbor is heating his old, 1600 sq ft farmhouse with a PE Spectrum and complains at times that it's too much heat."

Was just comenting on your locality and house size as compared to ours , no offense meant Begreen...


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## Chitty (May 6, 2013)

As a suggestion we use the forced air fan on our central electiric furnace to circulate the wood heat from the basement throught the house.
The BRAUN  brand 20 kilowatt furnace I installed can be hooked to a dual thermostat. The 1st thermostat works as a normal stat for a furnace and the second one only runs the fan portion of the furnace. By setting the temps of the 2 stats a little offset, when the upstairs cools, the furnace fan kicks in and the intake takes the air from the basement through all the ductwork and circulates the house. Keeps the house nice and even and power usage is minimal. If the fire does not put out enough heat or dies down too much by morning the main thermostat kicks in and the electric furnace will heat the house as set. Don't wake up in a cold house not wanting to climb out of bed like when I was a kid with only wood heat lol.
Nice thing with the electric furnace is they are 100% efficient as it does not require a fresh air intake from outside. They heat by drawing in the house air, heat it and return it back to the house. Also no chimney required, and zero clearance rating on the furace itself so can be installed in a closet or whever you choose. It can be installed horizontal, vertical or even upside down depending on where you want your intake and output air ducting.
My 20 kw was $950 for the furnace and a bit for the electrician to wire in. Could be tied in to your existing ductwork and no risk of carbon monoxide from old oil furnace etc.
Again the 20kw may be a size bigger than your choice, but they make a 10 and 13 kw version I believe for a couple hundred cheaper..
Kills 2 birds as it removes the issue of having the room your wood stove in being a hot spot and replaces the old oil furnace so that you can still leave the house a few days here and there without worrying about wood heat only.
This also is our main heat for the house and the wood is our secondary heat. The savings on our house insurance up here anyway paid for the furnace the first year, as wood heat only they like to charge 50% more per year.
Have to check with your electrician to see if your main panel has enough go juice though, my furnace required a 100 amp breaker but we were also upgrading to a 200 amp service panel at the same time so wasn't an issue.
Food for thought anyway...


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## Timnus (May 6, 2013)

Thanks Chitty.  I am trying to think of options for a secondary system as well.  I will definitely check this option out.


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## begreen (May 6, 2013)

In Altoona PA I would also be looking at an extra-high efficiency heat pump system. That will provide heating and cooling. If you install a mini-split system like the Mitsubishi Hyper-Heat it can be efficient down to -5F degrees. Moderator pen installed this system last year in PA. Second choice would be a Fujitsu. These units are miserly with electricity. Look in the Green Room or DIY section for more info on them.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/minisplit-ductless-heat-pump.105278/page-2#post-1391846
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/impressed-with-the-daikin-ductless-heat-pump.60963/


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## Timnus (May 6, 2013)

Ok, so I called up Woodstock and they also recommended either the Fireview or the Keystone.  I like the look of the Keystone more at the moment, the larger glass, and the ash pan.  But the Fireview has the larger firebox. 

Any one have good comparisons on the burn times of the Fireview vs. the Keystone? 

Or any comments on whether the Keystone could heat my 1200 sq ft. house, plus any future renovations of 400 sq ft or so? 

Thanks again everyone!


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## Woody Stover (May 6, 2013)

I believe an Fv would work great in there, and the burn times are very good. Extreme example, not much heat required with moderate temps outside; I loaded a few small/ medium Silver Maple rounds and some Cherry splits, medium burn time woods. Fairly full box, but not crammed by any stretch. With the air cut all the way, stove basically idling, I still had a split shape in the back of the box at 20 hrs. This stove is extremely easy to operate, as well.
We have 1000 leaky sq.ft. and I could easily heat us out most of the time, but this climate is a little warmer than PA. I'm probably going to put the Keystone back in and most likely sell the Fv. I may offer it to my BIL but he's pretty cheap...I can hold it for you if you want. Altoona isn't all that far away.


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## Backwoods Savage (May 6, 2013)

Timnus said:


> Ok, so I called up Woodstock and they also recommended either the Fireview or the Keystone. I like the look of the Keystone more at the moment, the larger glass, and the ash pan. But the Fireview has the larger firebox.
> 
> Any one have good comparisons on the burn times of the Fireview vs. the Keystone?
> 
> ...


 
Todd had a Fireview and then put in a Keystone and he likes it. There are many who like the larger glass but I don't think it is a big deal. You might get an extra two hours from the Fireview but I'm not 100% certain on that. It just makes sense that the larger firebox will give you that benefit. There have been a lot of Keystone and Fireviews sold but I think the Fireview is the biggest seller.

As for the ash pan, this is the first stove we've ever had with no ash pan and I was a little concerned about it. Now I am very happy with it and if I bought another stove that had the option (like the Progress) of ash pan or no ash pan, I would go without. We did have a Progress on order and it was to come with no ash pan and the shorter legs. I think the stove looks better without the ash pan too.


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## Woody Stover (May 6, 2013)

Backwoods Savage said:


> You might get an extra two hours from the Fireview


Yep, a couple extra hours and a bit more output. Considering the upcoming increase in area to be heated, I would lean toward the Fv.


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## begreen (May 6, 2013)

The BK Scirocco or Chinnok 20 is another alternative here.


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## Timnus (May 6, 2013)

Does anyone know if the BK's get black glass a lot of the time?  Or perhaps some of their newer ones are better with this issue?

Also, where is a good website to look at the BK stove prices?  Can't find any at the moment.


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## Dave A. (May 6, 2013)

These woodstock stoves -- am getting the impression that the front is just a glass panel that does not open. So the only way in is through the side door and no way to get in through the front?  I'd think that might make for less convenience.


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## begreen (May 6, 2013)

Yes. Based on the pics and comments posted here it sounds like during shoulder season burning (low flame) they blacken the glass. This clears up pretty well when opening up the thermostat, so not as much an issue in winter burning.


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## rijim (May 6, 2013)

One thing to consider is the 6" flue vs 7" on Keystone; don't know it that makes a difference with your setup. Go with the bigger fire box if you can.


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## Woody Stover (May 6, 2013)

Timnus said:


> Does anyone know if the BK's get black glass a lot of the time?


I've read some comments to that effect here. The Fv glass stays clean even when I burn a load with the air cut all the way. Dirty glass can be the result of wood that's not fully dry, as well...



Dave A. said:


> These woodstock stoves -- am getting the impression that the front is just a glass panel that does not open. So the only way in is through the side door and no way to get in through the front? I'd think that might make for less convenience.


I only loaded my Dutchwest from the side, but the front door was small; Easier to load from the side. Front door was great for building your load for a cold start, however. Many front loaders don't have andirons, but I find them useful because you can pack the stove and not worry about a split rolling into the glass. You never have to reach over fire if you load from the side, but I seldom add wood to a going fire; It's usually down to coals when I open the door to load.



rijim said:


> One thing to consider is the 6" flue vs 7" on Keystone; don't know it that makes a difference with your setup. Go with the bigger fire box if you can.


I connect my Ks with a 7" to 6" reducer on the flue collar. Woodstock says no problem doing this, and the stove drafts fine into my 6" liner.


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## Rickb (May 7, 2013)

Not sure If anyone lists BK prices online, however I got a Scirocco 20 with legs, back heat shield, and ash pan on hold and it was $1700.  I was quoted the same stove from the same place last fall at $2400.


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## arbutus (May 7, 2013)

Lots of good advice.

We had the large Pacific Energy stove in our last house, and burned it hot, full time during the middle of winter. We had no problem with overheating during the fall and spring, we just loaded less wood. Either way there were plenty of coals and a hot firebox left after 10 to 12 hours to start the next load of wood. Actually it would hold a little heat and a handful of coals over the weekend if there was a heavy ash layer in the stove

It DID have a mild peaked burn pattern when burning like this, as you needed to have the draft open for half an hour or so to get the next load of wood going well before damping it down, but it was mild, and the effect was non existant if you were actually home and could throw in one stick of firewood every couple of hours rather than four sticks every eight hours.

That may be true for all wood stoves to some degree. I'm really unfamiliar with catalytic stoves so I can't comment there.

Buying again, and based on the good reviews here, I would strongly consider the Englander for half the price of the PE.


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## Backwoods Savage (May 7, 2013)

Dave A. said:


> These woodstock stoves -- am getting the impression that the front is just a glass panel that does not open. So the only way in is through the side door and no way to get in through the front? I'd think that might make for less convenience.


 
Not any inconvenience at all. If you want front loaders, Woodstock's new stove will be a front loader. Personally, I prefer the side loader.

Here are a couple pictures so you can see that glass in the front. First picture is the Fireview and second is the Progress.


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## Dave A. (May 8, 2013)

I'm not picky, I'd like two doors -- front and side. Seriously, I thought there were some stoves like that with a front door for general access -- removing ashes, maintenance, and maybe a cold start and the side door for reloads.

I know the top loaders also have the front door. I'd think having only the one side door might make it harder in certain situations like if you want to have it centered inside a fireplace or put it tightly in a corner. Nothing against the Woodstocks, they otherwise seem pretty good, but getting the impression that they are about the only ones without a front door or make you choose either front or side.

Edit: Don't get me wrong. I really like the idea of the side door for loading and the andirons in front of the glass (to prevent logs rolling against it) with a stove that is made to load EW.  Just can see that there are certain situations where access also through a front door has advantages.


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## mellow (May 8, 2013)

Dave A. said:


> Nothing against the Woodstocks, they otherwise seem pretty good, but getting the impression that they are about the only ones without a front door or make you choose either front or side.


 
The Woodstock Union Hybrid will fix this complaint.


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## begreen (May 8, 2013)

The Union will be welcome. Side loading is not ok for corner installs and front load is the only option for some fireplace installs where the stove sits in the fireplace.


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## bag of hammers (May 8, 2013)

begreen said:


> In Altoona PA I would also be looking at an extra-high efficiency heat pump system. That will provide heating and cooling. If you install a mini-split system like the Mitsubishi Hyper-Heat it can be efficient down to -5F degrees. Moderator pen installed this system last year in PA. Second choice would be a Fujitsu. These units are miserly with electricity. Look in the Green Room or DIY section for more info on them.
> 
> https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/minisplit-ductless-heat-pump.105278/page-2#post-1391846
> https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/impressed-with-the-daikin-ductless-heat-pump.60963/


 
Timnus - FWIW - I have some friends who went with the mini-split solution ( Fujitsu I believe) a couple years ago.  On the colder days they have a small oil stove that keeps them warm, but on the not so frigid days, and during the shoulder seasons (and occasional crappy days in between when they need some easy heat) it works great.  And they get air conditioning in the summer which they LOVE.  They report the same thing about the unit sipping electricity too.  I would have jumped all over one of these myself but I needed a no-freeze solution for the many days we're away, and we get just a bit too cold mid-winter for the heat pumps to work or at least to be very efficient.  Once we're full time residents (there to tend the wood stove 24/7), I'm going to likely be looking at these units again.


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## Timnus (May 8, 2013)

Ok, so I remeasured my place and it is 1300 sq ft. (not much different from 1200), but in the course of thinking things through I realized I would like to be able to heat my garage or basement at times as well.  My garage is insulated and connected right onto the rest of the house (just one long ranch).  The wood stove would be located about 20 feet from my 650 sq ft. garage, and 2 door ways to get to the garage (in line and 8 ft apart). 

I spoke with Jamie at Woodstock today and he suggested the Progress Hybrid as the best option to heat the main area of the house and the garage or basement.  Even if I only heated the 1300 sq ft., he said I should be able to operate it low enough to not overheat the place, and then if I want to heat the garage it has the capacity to do that. 

I prefer the larger glass on the PH or the Keystone over the Fireview, but I am still deciding things. 

*So, here are my latest questions comparing 2 options between the PH and the Keystone:*


Will the PH operate well in a low setting and not overheat the main part of my house (the 1300 sq ft.) when I am not heating the garage?  (can it stay below 80 degrees)
Would a Keystone be able to heat the main part of the house (1300 sq ft.) up to 80 degrees and then also heat the garage (650 sq ft.) at least to 70 degrees?
 
**(I realize that the temperatures depend on the insulation level and outside temps.  Assume a moderate level of insulation and the location is in Central PA. )​​​​


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## begreen (May 8, 2013)

You are not going to get instant heating of the garage, certainly not by opening a door. It will take many hours if not all day to bring it up to temp using a fan to assist. This is because it takes a long time for the contents and walls of the garage to get up to temp. The floor will remain a heat sucker no matter what unless it's insulated and heated.

The basement is a completely different issue. Are you thinking of putting the stove in the basement? If not, remember hot air rises, it doesn't want to go down. You could engineer a heat flow-thru with a fan, but if the basement walls are not fully insulated I suspect the net gain will be small. Again, like the garage it takes a long time to raise temp. Remember, the stove is an area heater. If the use is occasional you would be better off with a pellet stove or electric heater in the basement.


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## Woody Stover (May 8, 2013)

One thing that's harder with no front door is cleaning the glass. Not a big deal, though; I remove the andirons, then it's easy.


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## Dave A. (May 8, 2013)

Andirons are removable, didn't realize that, Woody, -- that's something. No stove is ideal, it's just a question of balancing what's important. Still it's better to know these things ahead of time.

To me that's something of value here, sharing the experience -- good and bad. Yet some apparently don't want anything negative said about products, not sure why -- advertisers, members with commercial interests? -- haven't figured that out yet.


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## kingquad (May 8, 2013)

One stove can not do what you are asking.  Would you be open to a EPA rated ZC fireplace with "heat zones" plumbed into the unit.  The Osburn Stratford would be a good option at a reasonable price.  Osburn also has top notch customer service.  RSF and Napoleon models also have this option.


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## Chitty (May 10, 2013)

As far as Pacific Energy Summit goes the glass is big and provides  a nice view of the fire. I've run it 2 1/2 years now throughout all the seasons, big fires and small. The only time I've ever had black on the glass is occossionly when a piece of wood settles within 1/2" or closer to the glass. By the time I burn the next load it is clean again with the exception of a little bit of dusty grey ash. When I clean the chimney once a month and or when the stove is cool I shoot it with windex, wipe it clean and it stays like new. Can post pictures to prove that. PE definitely has a glass wash system that works. and no I don't sell them lol.
Clean my chimney once a moth you say! Yes I am a fanatic but so easy this way, swipe it twice with a brush, scrape the rain cap, empty the ashes, done. Inspect chimney by dropping a flashlight down on a string and the chimney is CLEAN. You can see the stainless shining from top to bottom inside except for a small residual dusty soot. Usually get about a 1/2 to a whole 1kg coffee can size of ashes out of the chimney on average. Whole procedure takes 1/2 hour tops and that includes pulling the black pipe and 90 with the damper from the stove to the inlet at the masonry in the basement.
Trick I've learned in the mid season when a stickier build up is in the chimney, mostly top 2 feet where the stainless liner protrudes out of the masonry chimney, I let the system go out for 6 hours or more to let the chimney cool right down. This allows the deposits to crystalize and harden so they come right off and are not sticky and tar like.
I spoke to a friend of mine just last week and he was saying hadn't cleaned his in 3 years cause he always burns hot and not worried. I laughed when he called me couple of days later and told me he spent the better part of 6 hours scraping and brushing his back to shape and admitted he didn't know why it hadn't caught fire!
Much easier to clean often, safer so even if a hot fire were to start a fire within the chimney, very little to even burn anyway. Peace of mind makes that wood stove even more of a comfort. 
Sorry if I veered off topic but thought being new to the wood heat it may help, Others may post differently


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## jeff_t (May 10, 2013)

Yeah, a bit off topic, but if you burn dry wood that wouldn't happen. I get about a cup of dusty brown stuff once a year.


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## fox9988 (May 10, 2013)

How often is there someone home to reload the stove? The Keystone measures out to be 1.4 sqft firebox. I think the Keystone would need 2 full loads a day + a partial in the evening (3.5 sqft of wood) to heat the 1300 sqft, normally. If you could reload 5 times a day (7 sqft wood) it would heat 2600 sqft of the same house/climate. I can get by on 2 loads a day most of the winter, 3 loads when temp dip to ~8 at night and ~26 day. I'm heating 1536 sqft, new house.

Edit: This was my Keystone's first winter, I'm Very happy with it and Woodstock.
I'm burning marginally dry red oak. Expecting to be even more impressed over the next few years when my wood stash hits 3+ years seasoned.


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## Woody Stover (May 10, 2013)

Chitty said:


> I shoot it with windex, wipe it clean and it stays like new.


I've seen some manuals that don't recommend using ammonia on ceramic glass. I don't think it's gonna hurt short-term, but could eventually be a problem...


fox9988 said:


> The Keystone measures out to be 1.4 sqft firebox. I think the Keystone would need 2 full loads a day + a partial in the evening (3.5 sqft of wood) to heat the 1300 sqft, normally. If you could reload 5 times a day (7 sqft wood) it would heat 2600 sqft of the same house/climate. I can get by on 2 loads a day most of the winter, 3 loads when temp dip to ~8 at night and ~26 day. I'm heating 1536 sqft, new house.
> 
> Edit: This was my Keystone's first winter, I'm Very happy with it and Woodstock.
> I'm burning marginally dry red oak. Expecting to be even more impressed over the next few years when my wood stash hits 3+ years seasoned.


I definitely noticed the difference in the size of the load I could fit, going from the Ks to the Fv. The Ks will still burn pretty long though on lower settings. I still had coals after 12 hrs. but obviously not a lot of heat coming off at that point.


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## fox9988 (May 11, 2013)

Yeah, not making a lot of btu's at 12 hrs, but works well on most days for me. I have acid stained concrete floors throughout the whole house= ~65,000 lb heat sink, + lots of insulation. Much easier to heat than my old shack.


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