# Burning wet wood



## Backwoods Savage (Jan 3, 2011)

Several posts lately have had me thinking about many of the people new to burning wood. Sometimes I think people are confusing wet wood with unseasoned wood or should we say, thinking they are the same thing. They are not! Naturally the creosote problem usually comes into play and also poor burning wood or "this stove won't throw much heat." 

So what happens to the wood if it rains or snows and you want to burn it? In the first place I believe it does not matter too much if there has been a recent rain or snow but it does matter a lot on what that wood was like before it rained or snowed. If the wood is just wet on the outside from recent moisture then that will dry off quite fast. Outdoors around here it usually takes less than a day to dry off that moisture (as I usually state; wood is not a sponge unless it is punky). Or one could just bring in the next load and stack it on the hearth to let the stove dry the wood.

But what about all the creosote that is being produced? This is a common problem and just keeps coming up over and over again and very rarely do people think it is the fault of the wood. It seems that most folks who buy wood take the word of the wood seller that the wood is ready to burn or is seasoned. Sorry, but very, very rarely is this the case. 

Someone posted a link to a video that had a great illustration concerning the amount of moisture that is in wood. (Perhaps someone could post a link that that video as I forgot where it is. Thank you.) Quite simply, it showed two pieces of wood placed on a balance scale. One piece was seasoned and the other was freshly cut. Naturally, they did not weigh the same. Then they started adding some water in a cup to the dry side and kept pouring water in until the two sides balanced. It is amazing how much water it took to balance those two pieces of wood. 

Now imagine what happens if each of those types of wood are placed into a wood heating stove. The first thing that happens when we reload our stoves is that the moisture is driven or evaporated from the wood as the flames begin. Once that moisture is gone the wood burns great. Now if we can imagine putting in the seasoned log, it won't take long for the fire to get going. However, if we put in the unseasoned log, it takes a lot longer to dry out that wood before it will burn. In the meantime, this moisture is headed right straight up the chimney. 

Question:  what effect does this moisture have on our chimneys? Do you suppose the chimney temperature is higher or lower when this moisture is being evaporated? Does all the moisture just go out the top of the chimney having no effect on the sides or wall of the chimney?

We also recently saw a thread where someone linked to a Youtube video where this poor fellow was really running down these new EPA type stoves. In his ignorance, he was burning green or unseasoned wood and expecting good results. That will not happen. This poor fellow also had a split sitting on top of his stove! No doubt he thought that would dry the wood enough. Sorry, it won't happen.


So to all the folks new to wood burning we ask that you please, please do yourself a big favor and make sure you have good dry wood to burn in that wonderful new stove you just bought. If you have creosote problems or your glass gets dirty, do not blame the stove or the stove pipe or the chimney. Plain and simple: it is the fuel you are trying to burn.

You would not consider burning poor fuel in your automobile or truck because the thing just would not run right. It is the same situation with your stove. So let's put good fuel in our stoves so we can let them perform the way they were intended to perform. It matters not if you have a cat or a non-cat stove; they both need good fuel.


I have not posted this thread in order to flame anyone or put anyone down in any way but have posted in the hopes that it might help a few people. I'm sure others will add to this post and I thank you for doing so as that is what needs to be done. I could write more but let's let some other folks chime in on this.


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## shawneyboy (Jan 3, 2011)

Oh and also Please, please, do NOT squat or sit on a milk crate near the splitter while splitting.  Er, ah wrong thread, sorry .

Good post Dennis, 9 out 10 it is the fuel, or so it would seem.


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## begreen (Jan 3, 2011)

The video is here. The part about wood moisture starts at about 1:30 :


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## Shari (Jan 3, 2011)

Two very telling photos from the above video:


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## boatboy63 (Jan 3, 2011)

I have to agree with BS, and what he said is not bs. I have been around wood stoves for the last 30 years and was never properly informed on how to burn. Living in the BFE section of TN, there is plenty of fuel (firewood). In the past, me and the inlaws would always go out in October or November and cut and split our firewood for the same season. Many times, we wouldn't go until we were nearly out and it would then be carried straight in from the truck to the stove. Since most of the parenting inlaws have passed in the last few years, I have had to take this on myself, when I had time. Because of the time factor, I have even bought c/s/s firewood from my son's friend, who had a nice little winter job going on doing it.

I had never seen the difference in what good dry wood has to offer in comparison to freshly cut...until joining here last winter and learning. I thought you guys were crazy. It doesn't take 2+ years to season wood. This year, I got a head start. Done my c/s/s back in the spring and it has been seasoning thru our 90*+ temps in summer. Last year, we were having problems getting the wood to burn. We would even have to leave the doors cracked open just to get it to burn, sometimes even had to aim a fan into the firebox just to get it going. Not this year. We start a fire in the morning with newspaper, kindling, and small splits from our spring split. Within 15 minutes, we add larger splits and have a blazing fire. Within 30 minutes, the doors are closed, air choked down, and door temps are 400-600*. We don't have to leave stove doors open and can actually maintain these temps with draft slides 25% of the way open. Fire stays hot and lasts for a good while.

Trust me when I say, there is a world of difference. We had maybe 6 cords at the beginning of the burn season. With unusually colder than normal temps during December, we have burned about 1.5 cords so far and have stayed much warmer and kept a fire that we can control. I had about 6 cords cut/split/stacked since spring to use in a gasification boiler I had plans on finishing before winter. Due to the colder weather earlier than normal, the plans for that have been put on hold until spring. I can only imagine how much better this stuff will be when it has aged for another year. By the looks of it, next year will even be better after half of this dries for another summer.


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## woodchip (Jan 3, 2011)

Great post, and great pictures, think of all that water which will mix with the smoke and clog up the chimney.

Can we get it made into a sticky so it stays at the top for a while


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## Battenkiller (Jan 3, 2011)

Backwoods Savage said:
			
		

> Question:  what effect does this moisture have on our chimneys? Do you suppose the chimney temperature is higher or lower when this moisture is being evaporated? Does all the moisture just go out the top of the chimney having no effect on the sides or wall of the chimney?



Dennis, I have to don't think about it, I _know_ what happens.

What you are saying may seem to make perfect sense, but it just ain't true.  The water gets evaporated inside the high temperatures of the firebox, not in the lower temps of the flue.  And every single molecule that doesn't leave the flue as water vapor condenses onto the walls of the flue pipe and _releases_ heat, not robs it of heat.  It is called the latent heat of condensation, and it is a lot of heat.  Plus, it releases the exact amount of heat per unit weight of water that it took to evaporate it in the first place, so all it can do is to help maintain temps, never decrease them.  It's a phenomenon that any high school physics teacher might ask you to explain on a test.


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## mbutts (Jan 3, 2011)

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/67365/
Here's ur link on the scale video

update
LOL got interupted this morning and just got back home. Forgot to refresh this post. I C others beat me to it.


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## BrotherBart (Jan 3, 2011)

Battenkiller said:
			
		

> What you are saying may seem to make perfect sense, but it just ain't true.  The water gets evaporated inside the high temperatures of the firebox, not in the lower temps of the flue.  And every single molecule that doesn't leave the flue as water vapor condenses onto the walls of the flue pipe and _releases_ heat, not robs it of heat.  It is called the latent heat of condensation, and it is a lot of heat.  Plus, it releases the exact amount of heat per unit weight of water that it took to evaporate it in the first place, so all it can do is to help maintain temps, never decrease them.



OK. I am a drop of water hanging on the chimney wall for dear life. The chimney wall and or the gases rushing by suck the precious heat out of me. What happens to me next Professor?


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## Battenkiller (Jan 3, 2011)

BrotherBart said:
			
		

> Battenkiller said:
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Whadda ya think this is, a perpetual motion machine or sumpin?   

If the gases are cool enough to condense on the walls, they will be too cool to evaporate the water again.  Especially since the exhaust gases are at 100% RH at that point.  It don't keep going back and forth like that, it goes one way or the other, and usually at a very well defined height in the flue... or, hopefully, not at all if your flue temps are high enough.  In a best case scenario, that heat gets lost forever into the outside air when that water remains as vapor like it should.


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## North of 60 (Jan 3, 2011)

I myself like to add about a gallon of water (distilled of course) to my fuel tank in my truck after a fill up to mix it down. On a full tank you don't notice it and I will get a few more miles to the gallon on my tank full. A bit of a power loss but hey. Would there be any difference by doing this with my stove and fire wood? :coolhmm:


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## Backwoods Savage (Jan 3, 2011)

Some great comments here. Well, there is always one....  But it appears many of us think along the same lines. But how do we get this information to more new burners?


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## Battenkiller (Jan 3, 2011)

north of 60 said:
			
		

> I myself like to add about a gallon of water (distilled of course) to my fuel tank in my truck after a fill up to mix it down. On a full tank you don't notice it and I will get a few more miles to the gallon on my tank full. A bit of a power loss but hey. *Would there be any difference by doing this with my stove and fire wood?* :coolhmm:



Yes, absolutely.  It's a piss-poor comparison IMHO, but I'm too burnt out to go into why right now.  It's easy to invent things to justify your thinking and make yourself believe you are right.  Isn't that what that psychological thingie was all about on the other thread?


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## Battenkiller (Jan 3, 2011)

Backwoods Savage said:
			
		

> But how do we get this information to more new burners?



What information?  The wrong information?  There are plenty of reasons you can cite that will demonstrate why you should always burned seasoned wood, it's just that the one you posted is simply not a valid one.


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## Backwoods Savage (Jan 3, 2011)

Like I said, there is always one....


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## Battenkiller (Jan 3, 2011)

Backwoods Savage said:
			
		

> Like I said, there is always one....



Thankfully.


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## PJF1313 (Jan 3, 2011)

north of 60 said:
			
		

> I myself like to add about a gallon of water (distilled of course) to my fuel tank in my truck after a fill up to mix it down. On a full tank you don't notice it and I will get a few more miles to the gallon on my tank full. A bit of a power loss but hey. Would there be any difference by doing this with my stove and fire wood? :coolhmm:



Gasoline or Diesel ?!  ;-)


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## Battenkiller (Jan 3, 2011)

PJF1313 said:
			
		

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E15  :lol:


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## drewboy (Jan 3, 2011)

Great post Dennis.
 My chimney is the "scourge" of all chimneys - an exterior, block, clay-lined and my stove is in my basement... the perfect conditions for a creosote factory right? Nope- I consistently only get about a quarter cup of crap when I brush it, which has also become only a once every 2 month project because I am burning at least 2 yr. old dry wood. 
 Dry wood is the key.

 Rob


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## BrotherBart (Jan 3, 2011)

Battenkiller said:
			
		

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He got a great deal on a bunch of the Perrier they found had so much Benzene in it a few years ago.


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## North of 60 (Jan 3, 2011)

Battenkiller said:
			
		

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Its for the legendary Cummins.  Same as the BK.  :lol:


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## PJF1313 (Jan 4, 2011)

north of 60 said:
			
		

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B.K. - Ya don't have to add the gal. of H20 in that stuff - it's all ready there! (just wait a couple 'o minutes ...)

N. of 60 - I just hope that your bowel doesn't freeze over - it's heck on a pump  ;-)


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