# Bio Bricks this season - 4 Tons!



## cogger

This year. NO sawing, NO spliting, NO stacking, NO large mess in the house. Skeptical, I tested and burned about a ton last year and was very happy. But these things have a cost right next to pellet fuel. Still good ol' wood is the way to go if you have the time to deal with it. But Bio's are freindly. I'll post some pics of new fisher stove and 4 ton pile later on.


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## kwburn

yeah, i'd like to see a picture of 4 tons bio bricks.
didn't know there was such a thing as a new fischer stove? new to you?


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## Stevebass4

i tried the BioBricks last year and loved them however at the current cost per ton they just don't seem cost effective with regards to cord wood


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## BioPellet

Stevebass4 said:
			
		

> i tried the BioBricks last year and loved them however at the current cost per ton they just don't seem cost effective with regards to cord wood



Guys,  BioBricks(tm) will change the way your woodstove burns!  They will make it much cleaner, longer burning, more efficient.  I strive to keep my cost similar to wood pellets.  That gives the consumer a choice between a wood stove and a pellet stove.  Why ask why people would buy BioBricks(tm) when cordwood is cheaper --- when there are so many folks around you that happily burn pellets (at a higher cost) instead of cordwood???


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## Stevebass4

no question you make a great product.. i burn cord wood because it's much less expensive then heating oil and pellets 

i feel bad for the folks who have a pellet stove and have no control over the cost of pellets whereas i can control the cost of my cord wood - ie a cords worth of log lenght costs me 75.00 at most and i enjoy processing the wood 

my last quote from a dealer in MA (from craigslist)  was 300 for a ton of Bio Bricks which is still more than 2* the cost of cord wood (if my math is correct)


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## Mike Wilson

Hey, I think they are, in concept, a great product.  Really... idea-wise, the product itself hits the nail on the head.  The problem is that retail cost, at least near me, is insane.  In fact, I think that the overall theme of the posts on Bio-Bricks is "good product, much too expensive."  As for comparing them to pellets, price-wise...  yes, probably comparable.  But, pellet stove users and wood stover users are two different animals.  Pellet stove users are, inherently, aware of the fact that they are paying a significant premium for convenience... that is their defining aspect.  Wood burners, on the other hand, are inherently cheap, or at least frugal, and are more than willing to put in days of labor to save a few bucks on the fuel they burn.  And they are consciously aware of the fact that if they spent some more money on pellets, they would have convenience... but they don't _want _to spend the money, its in their nature not to.  So, you are left selling a great product, to people who are inherently adverse to the price... even knowing the convenience.  Do you get what I am saying?  You know your business better than anyone else, but somehow, someone needs to get a handle on the ultimate retail price... unless they are selling so well that there is no incentive to do so... which I think may be the case.  

Either way, I want to buy a ton or three, but the people at Woodland Valley Fireplace are apparently ingesting large amounts of hallucinogenic materials, because they want way too much... as in, double the cost of a cord of splits... and no matter how that's rationalized, it's not happening.  Its the same price as oil, and sorry folks, but when wood becomes the same price as oil, I'm burning dinosaur juice. Que sera... 

-- Mike


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## elkimmeg

Mike and I agree great product but killer price..  Mike explained it well  cost wise. Maybe you  should compare with cord wood cost on pellets..

I have used you bio bricks but 16c cords of free wood and counting it make no sense to me.

BTW Biopellet  PM me I'm working on something that should be of interest to you.


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## GVA

BioPellet said:
			
		

> Stevebass4 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i tried the BioBricks last year and loved them however at the current cost per ton they just don't seem cost effective with regards to cord wood
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Guys,  BioBricks(tm) will change the way your woodstove burns!  They will make it much cleaner, longer burning, more efficient.  I strive to keep my cost similar to wood pellets.  That gives the consumer a choice between a wood stove and a pellet stove.  Why ask why people would buy BioBricks(tm) when cordwood is cheaper --- when there are so many folks around you that happily burn pellets (at a higher cost) instead of cordwood???
Click to expand...

You need to add the fact that you don't have to cut those log lengths and split them and then season them in piles in your backyard for AT LEAST a year...to get the MC and BTU value down to the equivelant of the BIO's....


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## elkimmeg

True GVA but no garage space or cellar is needed for cord wood stored and drying under nature's solar sun


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## budman

Mike Wilson said:
			
		

> Hey, I think they are, in concept, a great product.  Really... idea-wise, the product itself hits the nail on the head.  The problem is that retail cost, at least near me, is insane.  In fact, I think that the overall theme of the posts on Bio-Bricks is "good product, much too expensive."  As for comparing them to pellets, price-wise...  yes, probably comparable.  But, pellet stove users and wood stover users are two different animals.  Pellet stove users are, inherently, aware of the fact that they are paying a significant premium for convenience... that is their defining aspect.  Wood burners, on the other hand, are inherently cheap, or at least frugal, and are more than willing to put in days of labor to save a few bucks on the fuel they burn.  And they are consciously aware of the fact that if they spent some more money on pellets, they would have convenience... but they don't _want _to spend the money, its in their nature not to.  So, you are left selling a great product, to people who are inherently adverse to the price... even knowing the convenience.  Do you get what I am saying?  You know your business better than anyone else, but somehow, someone needs to get a handle on the ultimate retail price... unless they are selling so well that there is no incentive to do so... which I think may be the case.
> 
> Either way, I want to buy a ton or three, but the people at Woodland Valley Fireplace are apparently ingesting large amounts of hallucinogenic materials, because they want way too much... as in, double the cost of a cord of splits... and no matter how that's rationalized, it's not happening.  Its the same price as oil, and sorry folks, but when wood becomes the same price as oil, I'm burning dinosaur juice. Que sera...
> 
> -- Mike


Mike,WELL SAID ;-)


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## Stevebass4

true but once you're a year ahead  it's a moot point (waiting a year for the wood to season  ) but again - i enjoy it 

no question it's a great product as i purchased the last three bundles my local fireplace co had last year however they did not restock and the guy on CL was way too high


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## GVA

All good points but markets drive market prices....
Up in my neck of the woods if someone were to buy seasoned hardwood they are looking at $225 a cord, and Bios at about $250 a ton.
Most here in Mass don't have much land therefore storing the 4 cords a year plus next years wood does not make sense.....oherwise they won't have a backyard...
And since the bio's take up about half the space of a cord with the same BTU's the one can store twice as much in the same space as a cord of wood.
It don't matter to me guy's do what you want but just remember all those people that are putting stoves in thier condos, two family homes etc..and are looking to save some money and do not have the means to dry thier own supply or to store several cords...


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## BrotherBart

If Bio Pellets and pellets are in parity cost wise I would rather get a pellet stove and dump a bag a day into it and be done with it. Why pay twice as much than for cordwood, in fact more since the processor down the road sells it for $160 a cord, and still have to hand feed and nurse the stove.


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## MrGriz

I've gotta tell you, if cord wood was the same cost as running my electric heat I'd sell the splitter and turn up the t-stat.  I would keep the chainsaw though.


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## begreen

The most affordable fuel, regardless of source, is regional. This will continue to be the case. Many folks want an affordable alternative, but have constraining factors on scrounging for heat ( jobs, lack of storage property, urban location, age, etc.) In our region, pellet costs have been relatively stable and competitive, especially if one purchases for the whole season at the best sale prices. 

I'd like to see our compressed fuel costs drop a bit so that it's competitive with pellets. Tests show that it burns cleaner and I'm all for that. 

As for BioBricks, they work very well for clean, long burns. If I lived where they were cost effective there is no doubt that I would have a stock of them, even if I had cords of wood outside. Like Bart said, there are times where the weather says stay inside. At that time, having a nice stash of convenient, clean, long burning fuel is priceless.


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## elkimmeg

with all Pols talking about being greener, It is my hope that they subsidize bio fuel similar to oil. Make it more affordable alternative to fossil fuel

 I keep hoping to get the opportunity to talk to some of the powers to be, hoping to influence this thinking.  Possibly an influx of development money for expansion.


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## cogger

BioPellet said:
			
		

> Guys,  BioBricks(tm) will change the way your woodstove burns!  They will make it much cleaner, longer burning, more efficient.  I strive to keep my cost similar to wood pellets.  That gives the consumer a choice between a wood stove and a pellet stove.  Why ask why people would buy BioBricks(tm) when cordwood is cheaper --- when there are so many folks around you that happily burn pellets (at a higher cost) instead of cordwood???



Great thread I started I guess. Ya, I brought these really early on in the season this year. Last year my local retailer ran out in mid winter so by the time they got them from you again in stock Spring time was around the corner. I just do not have the time for wood like I used to have and this is a great alternative. So I was looking at paying $500 for a pulp load of wood, then cut, then split, then move, then stack, then season. etc..., So for $700 more it's like paying myself for the spare time it would have taken me to  take on wood.

 I would think that freight cost has much to do with retail price now adays


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## wahoowad

I would like to have some biobricks around so my gal can easily start a fire in my absence. I'm assuming these things start and burn easier. She can't seem to remember how to start a top down fire - too many variables (base logs, proper type/amount of kindling, newspaper knots, lighting procedure, air control at start, air control once it gets going, reloading). I know it is pretty simple for us, but were "in to it." She's only doneit a few times and is keenly aware of the risks of doing it wrong. I'd think biobricks would offer an easier way for her but they aren't sold here in central VA.


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## DonCT

Yes, Bio's are VERY easy to light. I've already talked it over with the wife and we're going to be picking up 2 tons for the winter to supplement the cordwood I already have. They just so much easier for her to handle and store. I live in a condo, so I can have wood piles strung about the property. I'm surprised they haven't kooked out yet :cheese: And they're pretty cheap for me. $215 per pallet and I can just drive down the street and pick them up.

I use the teepee method like shown here: http://www.biopellet.net/instructions.html

The teepee combined with a little chunk of the firestarter bricks and she's flamin

From first light to good base is about 15 min.


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## mtalea

I was about to post and say BT in bristol where I also live has bios for 215./ pallet.....My cousin has switched from cord to bios,he said it is actually cheaper....the bios burn cleaner and longer. as apposed to cord wood.Plus..no offense guys but time is money..and money is time...the cost to split/stack and store all has a price on it.Now I know alot of you enjoy that type of work...and I respect that but none the else it is still work. most of us work enough 2 to much already.I on the other hand burn pellets..Im a carpenter so for me trees belong to the lumber yards not the stoves.

With all this being said Burn Baby Burn! the cold weather is acoming!


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## cogger

mtalea said:
			
		

> I was about to post and say BT in bristol where I also live has bios for 215./ pallet.....My cousin has switched from cord to bios,he said it is actually cheaper....the bios burn cleaner and longer. as apposed to cord wood.Plus..no offense guys but time is money..and money is time...the cost to split/stack and store all has a price on it.Now I know alot of you enjoy that type of work...and I respect that but none the else it is still work. most of us work enough 2 to much already.I on the other hand burn pellets..Im a carpenter so for me trees belong to the lumber yards not the stoves.
> 
> With all this being said Burn Baby Burn! the cold weather is acoming!



Well said about the time and money vs. labor. Belief I enjoy and few beers or coffee and my axe and chopping block on a crisp day but I lack the time now adays. I wish they where $215 a ton up my way. I think a biopellet plant and press would be a great venture around my parts.


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## wg_bent

As a green solution, compressed logs and pellets aren't as green as cord wood since they require a lot of energy to chip the wood, dry, and compress, then ship.  They do burn well, just be careful not to break them up when burning.  They're more of a load and forget deal.  One problem I found was that when loading the stove, the small size of the bricks made it hard to get them all positioned well in the stove to optimize the load.  Sure it's better than the irregular shape of cord wood, but cord wood is at least a lot longer.  Gloves are required if using bio bricks.  You wouldn't have this issue with other compressed log shaped versions, but wouldn't get the stove packed as tight.  The other thing I noticed is that when loading a full load, all that compressed, and dense brick doesn't catch fire very fast, only the outside of the entire mass catches, and the thermal mass of the load pulls a lot of heat out of the stove, and it takes a bit to get back up to temp.


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## WILDSOURDOUGH

Just go's to show that there is no 'One size fits all'- Thank goodness otherwise the world would be Ticky-Tacky, and we would all be just the same!
If cord wood is cheap and plentyful- go Cordwood.
If pellets are more your style- great.
I have not tried Bio's yet- but do agree that it would be nice to have a supply, even just as a 'backup'
(What's the storage life of those Bio's anyway???)


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## begreen

Storage life is longer than I'll be around if you keep them dry and out of the humidity. They make a great source of backup heat and if you burn them correctly they can nicely extend the usable heat burn time.


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## carpniels

HI All,

I have to disagree with Mike Wilson. He said that all wood stove owners are cheap and therefore cut their own wood and there is less convenience. Pellet users are convenience oriented.

I think there are also people that choose wood over pellet because they like looking at the beautiful flames instead of the forced pellet flame. And they like the quietness of a wood stove as opposed to the auger turning and wissssshhh of the pellet flame. 

I can see biobricks be the ideal fuel for older wood burners, that cant cut or stack themselves, but want to keep their wood stove. A pellet stove will set the back $2500 or so including install while a lot of houses around here still have old inserts (franklin or glacier bay).  If the price is the same as pellets, there older folks could save a lot on install costs and still use their beloved wood insert.

When I am close to retirement age and I am not as strong, flexible or eager to do all the work, I can see myself ordering log lengths for delivery or even splits, where all I need to do is stack it in the back and that is it. Or even go biobricks. 

Carpniels


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## Mike Wilson

carpniels said:
			
		

> I have to disagree with Mike Wilson.



That's okay... we're all entitled to make a mistake now and then.  ;-P 




			
				carpniels said:
			
		

> He said that all wood stove owners are cheap and therefore cut their own wood and there is less convenience. Pellet users are convenience oriented.



What, a guy can't make a point using stereotypes anymore?  

-- Mike


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## backpack09

But we ARE all cheap


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## WILDSOURDOUGH

THRIFTY- not Cheap


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## begreen

Yep, frugality used to be considered one of the cornerstones of patriotism. Now we're told it's our patriotic duty to go out and shop.


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## MrGriz

I'm not thrifty, I'm cheap. :cheese:


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## wg_bent

MrGriz said:
			
		

> I'm not thrifty, I'm cheap. :cheese:



Yup.. same here.. I'm cheap!  I admit it.  My checkbook mandates it!


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## Mike Wilson

Call me cheap, because I see no reason whatsoever for spending an extra dime, on anything... 

Unless, that is, I _want _to.  I do not _want _to spend extra money on oil... I've been to Riyadh, and I don't particularly care for the Saudis... on a personal level.

-- Mike

PS - just called my local Bio Brick store... Good old Woodland Valley Fireplace... $390/ton.  He can shove it.  I have to convince someone else around here to sell these things... its either that, or I am going to be stuck with a tractor trailer full of them.


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## begreen

MrGriz said:
			
		

> I'm not thrifty, I'm cheap. :cheese:



If you were cheap, that Dolmar would have been used and your stove an Ashley. Same thing with Mike. How can you be out on a boat (hole in the water in which one pours money) and be considered cheap?


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## senorFrog

BioBricks are intriguing because it's predictable product.  I have two cords being delivered tomorrow AM and have no idea if it will be as seasoned or "seasoned".  I still need another two, and might just order two pallets of BioBricks instead.  Pricewise, in my area it would be about the same.

It would be nice if they could get jotul certify these are safe.


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## MrGriz

BeGreen said:
			
		

> MrGriz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not thrifty, I'm cheap. :cheese:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you were cheap, that Dolmar would have been used and your stove an Ashley. Same thing with Mike. How can you be out on a boat (hole in the water in which one pours money) and be considered cheap?
Click to expand...


Quite the opposite BG.  When I part with my hard earned cash, I want to do the research (and the math) to make sure that what I'm buying is of the quality that will pay me back over time.  I look at it this way:  if I'm going to spend a good amount of money on a saw, for example, I want to buy one that will last me.  I figure I'm farther ahead spending the extra money up front than replacing an item several times or putting a lot of money into repairs.

That goes for items like a saw, stove, splitter, appliance or other "major" purchase.  On the things where quality is less of an issue, I'm cheap.  Take cloths for example.  The only way you'll see a designer label on me is if it was a gift or off of a clearance rack.  There is a bit of a grey area with cloths also though; I do have a pair of work boots that's about 20 years old.

Maybe I should say that I'm cheap, but I do it wisely. ;-)


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## BioPellet

senorFrog said:
			
		

> BioBricks are intriguing because it's predictable product.  I have two cords being delivered tomorrow AM and have no idea if it will be as seasoned or "seasoned".  I still need another two, and might just order two pallets of BioBricks instead.  Pricewise, in my area it would be about the same.
> 
> It would be nice if they could get jotul certify these are safe.



Jotul EU (the parent company) says its ok to use densified logs but you have to pe cautious and follow the directions on the package because it is a very dry product...


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## begreen

MrGriz said:
			
		

> BeGreen said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MrGriz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not thrifty, I'm cheap. :cheese:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you were cheap, that Dolmar would have been used and your stove an Ashley. Same thing with Mike. How can you be out on a boat (hole in the water in which one pours money) and be considered cheap?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Quite the opposite BG.  When I part with my hard earned cash, I want to do the research (and the math) to make sure that what I'm buying is of the quality that will pay me back over time.  I look at it this way:  if I'm going to spend a good amount of money on a saw, for example, I want to buy one that will last me.  I figure I'm farther ahead spending the extra money up front than replacing an item several times or putting a lot of money into repairs.
> 
> That goes for items like a saw, stove, splitter, appliance or other "major" purchase.  On the things where quality is less of an issue, I'm cheap.  Take cloths for example.  The only way you'll see a designer label on me is if it was a gift or off of a clearance rack.  There is a bit of a grey area with cloths also though; I do have a pair of work boots that's about 20 years old.
> 
> Maybe I should say that I'm cheap, but I do it wisely. ;-)
Click to expand...


And that is known as frugality and thrift. Not cheapness, but wisely spending your hard earned money.


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## Mike Wilson

BeGreen said:
			
		

> Same thing with Mike. How can you be out on a boat (hole in the water in which one pours money) and be considered cheap?



Trust me, you can... especially if you own a _sail _boat...  hell, I go through my 42 gallon diesel tank once a season...  my powerboat friends clean through that in one day, before lunch.  

-- Mike


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## senorFrog

Odd question, but what do these smell like when burning?


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## jqgs214

Trust me on this I have been in the boating business for 17 years.  Sailboaters are CHEAP  no offense mike!


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## drizler

Count me in on CHEAPPPPPPP.   I am the original cheap ?*&**#$ though I do it politely.     It is a delightful feeling to beat an Arab, Politician and above all Parasitic Corporations out of their inflated extorted profits.      I would much rather pay a farmer for his corn and bypass the whole crooked system.


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## cogger

senorFrog said:
			
		

> Odd question, but what do these smell like when burning?



Fairly odorless with a small scent of sawdust


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## cogger

kwburn said:
			
		

> yeah, i'd like to see a picture of 4 tons bio bricks.
> didn't know there was such a thing as a new fischer stove? new to you?



Yea new to me. Always a smarta$$ somewhere.... Just for you here it is


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## cogger

Mike Wilson said:
			
		

> Call me cheap, because I see no reason whatsoever for spending an extra dime, on anything...
> 
> Unless, that is, I _want _to.  I do not _want _to spend extra money on oil... I've been to Riyadh, and I don't particularly care for the Saudis... on a personal level.
> 
> -- Mike
> 
> PS - just called my local Bio Brick store... Good old Woodland Valley Fireplace... $390/ton.  He can shove it.  I have to convince someone else around here to sell these things... its either that, or I am going to be stuck with a tractor trailer full of them.



OMG and I thought they where expensive my way. Well if you have 2 pickup trucks drive to Bristol, CT and get em for $210. For 4 tons it my be worth a 1/2 day trip


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## DonCT

RingOfFire said:
			
		

> Mike Wilson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Call me cheap, because I see no reason whatsoever for spending an extra dime, on anything...
> 
> Unless, that is, I _want _to.  I do not _want _to spend extra money on oil... I've been to Riyadh, and I don't particularly care for the Saudis... on a personal level.
> 
> -- Mike
> 
> PS - just called my local Bio Brick store... Good old Woodland Valley Fireplace... $390/ton.  He can shove it.  I have to convince someone else around here to sell these things... its either that, or I am going to be stuck with a tractor trailer full of them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OMG and I thought they where expensive my way. Well if you have 2 pickup trucks drive to Bristol, CT and get em for $210. For 4 tons it my be worth a 1/2 day trip
Click to expand...


Actually, according to their site, they're $215. Not that it makes much diff


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## Stevebass4

if i can get them for 215 a ton i would have two tons sitting in the basement


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## Mike Wilson

DonCT said:
			
		

> Actually, according to their site, they're $215. Not that it makes much diff



Yeah, I know...  I know...  and trust me, if I could get them for about 215/ton, even 250/ton, I'd have 4 tons in the basement right now.  I've had conversations with Bio here about the topic, he's been very good about it... Basically, it completely pisses me off, because he has a perfectly good product, that nobody around here is going to use because the only dealer he has is raping its customers on price.  I was going to cruise around my more local stores to see if any of them want to supply the area with BioBricks, but I only have one store in Southold (8 miles away) and another in Sag Harbor (10 miles away, by Boston Whaler) to work with, and neither of them do any major stove volume...  they sell stoves, and Adirondack chairs, and umbrellas... you get the picture.  There's a stove in Patchogue, I forget their name, but they seem to be a big dealer... that's 50 miles from here though.

-- Mike


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## cogger

Lite the bricks today. 20f here this am. I see Pelletsales.com will ship them, but I will have to buy 22TONS! LOL..........


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## BioPellet

RingOfFire said:
			
		

> Lite the bricks today. 20f here this am. I see Pelletsales.com will ship them, but I will have to buy 22TONS! LOL..........



Light My Fires in Caanan NH has product.

Light My Fire Stoves And Grills
22 Reagan Road
Canaan NH 03741
Toll free: 866-346-9229
Phone: 603-523-8383
Fax: 603-523-9229
website  

Perras Lumber
P.O. Box 129 GROVETON, NH 03582
PH# 603 636 1830  FAX# 603 636 1885


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## cogger

Right, I got my 4 tons from Perras Lumber.   Any chance of you folks expanding your pressing operations in other states in the future?


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## begreen

:lol:  I'd have thought you'd be burning cardboard like Dylan if you're cheap %-P


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## jjs777_fzr

Just trailered 1Ton of biobricks ($280) from dist in saugus,ma
Threw (5) bricks into stove with some wood left over from construction - didnt jam the firebox at all - left plenty of open space.

temp readings from stove top peaked at 500F
Then after 45min dropped off to 330F and after 2 hours sticking to 300F

previously been using Enviro-Log's with wood debris all around (not split lumber just leftover pine debris)
temp readings from stovetop would peak at 550F then drop off very slowly and in a more linear fashion over 3 hours with usable heat throughout.

okay now fired it up again this time (6) bricks w/ a couple scraps wood and peaked at 550F on stovetop

well at least the biobricks are clean and easy to handle and store like everyone says...I dont think they're magic or anything
I suppose I will have to time the burn vs temp curve and plot it (cause I have to know lol)

-John

ps newbie here...I do not pretend to know what I am talking about - I am truly a first timer with wood stoves,pellet stoves.


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## begreen

What stove jjs?

Follow the instructions provided by BioBricks to get a longer burn. The trick is to get a solid mass of them burning from one edge.

http://www.biopellet.net/instructions.html


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## TCaldwell

i tried biobricks in the garn,  air infused they start a little slower than cordwood however when they kick, extremely hot for about 45 minutes, recorded 1 hour burn rate of 600k btu  then drop off fast , cordwood  seems to last longer and at a little lower temp for same weight . i supplement with biobrick when i need to get the burn chamber up to temp to gassify suspect cordwood. also check out construction sites, wood roofers and wood fence companies, the back of my truck has become thier dumpster.


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## jjs777_fzr

begreen 

its a home depot stove by century hearth and it was 600 w/50 rebate so 550 for the 1500sq/ft capacity model (says 10k to 29k btu's)
I cant imagine paying 2k for a stove...maybe someday 

Actually - now I'm on my 2nd round of biobricks and laid them out differently (yep seen the teepee thingy) and without going into detail they need to be close together to burn longer perhaps hotter too

My house is rough construction but now insulated and some drywall.
outside temp is 38F and inside first floor where stove is now 74 and the upstairs is 69F (wow since theres a room that lets air come down from attic to 2nd flr where 2nd/3rd is unheated)
first flr 25x25 and 2nd floor 27x35

I'd really like to know what yall see on dvl stove pipe for temps (simpson-duravent doublewall close clearance) - just curious

I should say..great site glad to be here - learning as I go.

-john


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## begreen

The teepee is just to get 3 of them burning well. Then you need to create a solid stack of bricks surrounding the teepee as shown in the link provided.  Try to avoid airspaces in the stack. It's the tightly stacked bricks that give the slow burn. _ But don't overload the stove, that's a lot of btus. _


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## cogger

BeGreen said:
			
		

> The teepee is just to get 3 of them burning well. Then you need to create a solid stack of bricks surrounding the teepee as shown in the link provided.  Try to avoid airspaces in the stack. It's the tightly stacked bricks that give the slow burn. _ But don't overload the stove, that's a lot of btus. _



I only use the teepee lighting method for bio's if kindling wood is not available. There is a much energy that it takes to heat up a firebox. Do like Begreen suggest and build a tight burning mass. Due to the size of my stove and fall type weather I do 10 at a time and get 8 hours heat with stove top 200-250. This will increase as it get's colder.


----------



## jjs777_fzr

RingOfFire said:
			
		

> BeGreen said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The teepee is just to get 3 of them burning well. Then you need to create a solid stack of bricks surrounding the teepee as shown in the link provided.  Try to avoid airspaces in the stack. It's the tightly stacked bricks that give the slow burn. _ But don't overload the stove, that's a lot of btus. _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I only use the teepee lighting method for bio's if kindling wood is not available. There is a much energy that it takes to heat up a firebox. Do like Begreen suggest and build a tight burning mass. Due to the size of my stove and fall type weather I do 10 at a time and get 8 hours heat with stove top 200-250. This will increase as it get's colder.
Click to expand...


RingofFire - So you are seeing 200-250 at the end of 8 hours with 10 bricks ?   Am I reading that correct ?


-John


----------



## cogger

[quote author="jjs777_fzr" date="1194924279"

RingofFire - So you are seeing 200-250 at the end of 8 hours with 10 bricks ?   Am I reading that correct ?


-John[/quote] Well this temp f 200-250 is with a small Fisher stove and should point that it out that it is a average temp. The last hour is more like 150 - 175 but I top it off before or by then. In short, a full burn w/o a re lite for 10 bricks will go 8 hours in my small Fisher stove. As it get's colder I will step it up a bit.


----------



## BioPellet

BeGreen said:
			
		

> The teepee is just to get 3 of them burning well. Then you need to create a solid stack of bricks surrounding the teepee as shown in the link provided.  Try to avoid airspaces in the stack. It's the tightly stacked bricks that give the slow burn. _ But don't overload the stove, that's a lot of btus. _



Guys,  three bricks might not be enough.  I say on my instructions that you need 4 bricks, 3 leaned together around the newsprint and one layed flat on top.  The three around the newsprint provide insulation, the one on top catches all the heat and reflects it back into the ones below.  Sometimes I need to blow on the newspaaper and sometimes it takes a second try but I find it to be the easiest way in general to get started


----------



## begreen

I found a supercedar worked the best. No muss, no fuss. The BioBricks were a little reluctant to get going and need a longer flame than newspaper could provide.


----------



## cogger

BioPellet said:
			
		

> BeGreen said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The teepee is just to get 3 of them burning well. Then you need to create a solid stack of bricks surrounding the teepee as shown in the link provided.  Try to avoid airspaces in the stack. It's the tightly stacked bricks that give the slow burn. _ But don't overload the stove, that's a lot of btus. _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Guys,  three bricks might not be enough.  I say on my instructions that you need 4 bricks, 3 leaned together around the newsprint and one layed flat on top.  The three around the newsprint provide insulation, the one on top catches all the heat and reflects it back into the ones below.  Sometimes I need to blow on the newspaaper and sometimes it takes a second try but I find it to be the easiest way in general to get started
Click to expand...


Even so if done right you can catch em off with 1 ball of newspaper. To avoid blowing and getting dizzy and short breath use a bellow if you have one or rip several small strands of paper and slowly feed inside of lite paper inside of teepee seems to work also.

Even my lite teepee gets my stove top 250d. and once lite and burning well I use the poker and stack the 4 up and add freash ones rather than waiting for them to crumble and spread.

I am very happy and pleased with this product. However I will go back to wood if price goes up.

Also I was looking for the video on your site of the German press, I noticed this info was removed.


----------



## cogger

BeGreen said:
			
		

> I found a supercedar worked the best. No muss, no fuss. The BioBricks were a little reluctant to get going and need a longer flame than newspaper could provide.



Not to get off topic here but where can find your supercedars?


----------



## begreen

Email Thomas for a free sample: forstarts@aol.com 
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/3295/P15/

http://www.supercedar.com/


----------



## swestall

My take is the cost is a HUGE factor here, next comes the fact that many of us grew up inhaling wood smoke and we're addicted. BUT, having said that, I told my wife this morning I'd buy a ton or two of these to keep in the cellar for her to use when I am away or when it's just too cold/snowy to get to the woodpile. A happy wife can offset the cost ot those bricks, a little. And, I got her to agree that I can use all the wood I want. (we've got about 40 AC of forest for me to work on). 
I would suggest that those bio brick folks could work on production efficiency and might sell more at a bit lower cost. Imagine if they were less than pellets!


----------



## jjs777_fzr

been using biobricks for a bit now and have come to the conclusion it really does matter how you stack the things!

stacking close together and flat the stove produces low temps but last a long time...then leaves a hot bed of coals that last for quite some time so I can throw wood (or more bricks) on top and it catches real quick

If I stack at an angle against the back of my stove (same # of bricks - say 8) so the short side is up/down it will produce a much hotter flame

Compare temps of 250 vs 500

Not sure how this can make THAT much of a difference but I been observing this behavior for a few weeks now and am convinced it is consistently reproducable 

cost is definitely too high

stacking convenience is unbeatable (1 ton goes right under my 2nd flr stairs! and I could prolly fit 3 tons same area) is better than anything and no comparison to wood

amazing how the wife factor must be mentioned as well - she loads the stove now! with biobricks

I think the best thing is to use them w/wood 
the wood gets the stove hot and the bricks keep the stove warm longer so its not so hard to get the stove up to temp next time


----------



## cogger

I am burning these in a baby bear fisher and found I have to toss in some wood in the below zero nights. They did work very well in a vermont casting intrepid coal model and where a great alternative to pea and rice coal.




			
				jjs777_fzr said:
			
		

> been using biobricks for a bit now and have come to the conclusion it really does matter how you stack the things!
> 
> stacking close together and flat the stove produces low temps but last a long time...then leaves a hot bed of coals that last for quite some time so I can throw wood (or more bricks) on top and it catches real quick
> 
> If I stack at an angle against the back of my stove (same # of bricks - say 8) so the short side is up/down it will produce a much hotter flame
> 
> Compare temps of 250 vs 500
> 
> Not sure how this can make THAT much of a difference but I been observing this behavior for a few weeks now and am convinced it is consistently reproducable
> 
> cost is definitely too high
> 
> stacking convenience is unbeatable (1 ton goes right under my 2nd flr stairs! and I could prolly fit 3 tons same area) is better than anything and no comparison to wood
> 
> amazing how the wife factor must be mentioned as well - she loads the stove now! with biobricks
> 
> I think the best thing is to use them w/wood
> the wood gets the stove hot and the bricks keep the stove warm longer so its not so hard to get the stove up to temp next time


----------



## Codeman812

Amen to that. I am so glad I got hooked on Dave Ramsey. Now I know better than to rely on credit, I really don't care about my credit score anymore. Too many Banks running our country perhaps is the problem, IMHO.



			
				BeGreen said:
			
		

> Yep, frugality used to be considered one of the cornerstones of patriotism. Now we're told it's our patriotic duty to go out and shop.


----------



## nhtodd

I just took delivery of my first 3 tons and I must say they are great. I am mixing them with wood that I bought earlier. I have an All Nighter mid Moe that can handle a full load.


----------



## drewmo

Not so good with maths, but how does one compare prices between bio bricks & wood? Because of this thread, I just bought a 10 kilo (22 lbs) pack for approx U$4.75 from the local grocery store for giggles. I just threw 2 bricks into the stove and find them burning nicely. Actually, I quite like these things.  If I'm right, it's costing me about U$432 per ton. With those prices, you're thinking I should probably stick to wood. But wood is costing me U$110 per meter-cubed (split & delivered). So, in the end, I really don't know what is more cost-effective. What should I be looking for and how?


----------



## kellog

Drewmo,

If I am calculating it right 3.5 cubic meters is equivalent to a cord of wood. We pay about US$200 for a cord split and delivered.  You are paying about US$385 per cord.  

A ton of bio bricks (2000 US pounds or about 910 kilograms) is about US$250 where I am.  I'm not sure but it seems people are equating a cord of wood to a ton of bio bricks. Some one correct me if this is not correct.

So you are paying US$432 for a ton of bio bricks and US$385 for the wood.  That is about the same relationship of price here.  

The big advantage I have is I cut my own wood so it is much less expensive for me. Bio bricks are much more expensive for me to use.

Let's see if someone has a better idea how a cord of cordwood relates to a ton of bio bricks.


----------



## KeithO

With the lower moisture content, it should be closer to 2 to 2.5 tons of biobrick or pellets to compare with 1 cord of wood


----------



## begreen

A better comparison is the btus per ton. One ton of bio bricks = 17,000,000 btus (50 pkgs x 20 bricks x 17,000 btus). By comparison, a cord of white oak = 4000 - 4500#, 25,700,000 btus or if very dry, 12,850,000 btus / ton. Bio bricks emit 50% less particulates per cord burned which is impressive. Also, in a correctly packed stove, they release meaningful heat over a much longer time. This is one of the best features, especially for overnight burns.


----------



## kellog

Begreen,

I like your thought process. So you are saying that you get 1.3 times the heat from a ton Bios than from a cord of cordwood (assuming you get the same BTU's per pound from all wood types which I think is roughly correct).

So it would make economic sense for me to burn bios if I were buying cut and split wood.  Interesting.  Further you say there is an enviromental advantage to bios. I cannot logically disagree with you but somehow I can't believe it can be economically and enviromentally better to burn bios.  

To get the raw materials for bios you have to cut and process trees (same as cord wood).  Then you have to add further processing to make bios which is capital intensive compared to making cordwood. You need a building with presses, feeders, driers, etc, etc. Even if you are using 100% free sawdust from mills, I would think the building, equipment, energy etc would add up to significant costs for bios.  

I have no factual arguements against what you are saying but somehow I feel there is something wrong with this scenario.  Maybe someone can help here. Biopellet maybe?


----------



## fishercat

I think 1 cord of wood is 2 cubic metres


----------



## begreen

I'll give this a try, though I am not a scientist or product expert. To my knowledge, bio bricks, pressed logs and most pellets are not made from trees cut explicitly for their manufacture. Instead, they use the tremendous amount of sawdust that is created from the lumber and plywood industry. This used to be considered a waste product. They use their own fuel to dry the sawdust and in some big plants to power them. It's sifted very clean so that one is burning virtually no bark. The infrastructure is expensive, but is a one time expense. Some pressed log machines were made in the 1920's and are still in production! Yes, there is transportation environmental costs, but so is there for any fuel. 

According to bio-bricks their product has been tested to be about 52% less emissions (in gms/hr) than clean cord wood burning in an EPA certified stove. A lot of that is because one does less refilling over a 24 hr period than with burning cord wood. 

Is it perfect, absolutely not. Is it more environmentally (and politically independent?) friendly that say middle east oil or even US coal? Definitely yes. If the goal is zero carbon footprint, perhaps we all should be living underground or at least in earthbermed houses, 1/4 the current size, wearing sweaters and heating our houses with just the lighting and appliances within it. But there are a few million existing homes in the way right now that still need heat.  To be clear, I'm not advocating everyone stop burning cordwood. It makes great sense to burn it cleanly when locally available. Biobricks, pellet stoves, & compressed logs, are a great alternative for people in an urban or suburban area where fuel has to be trucked in regardless and where population density dictates much cleaner burning per household. Considering that is where the majority of the population now lives, the product makes good sense to me.


----------



## drewmo

Well said, BG. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts about bottled water and how transportation of such impacts the enivronment ....

Piecing together everyone's comments, it appears bio bricks could be competive in price with wood (split & delivered), not to mention their potential advantages, if burned properly, to the environment. Obviously the small bundle I bought at the supermarket is overpriced compared to bulk purchases. Then again, this is France, and I pay less for a bottle of wine than I do for a bottle of Evian water. Go figure.


----------



## kellog

Begreen,

I’m still not buying that bios are less expensive. Again no data to back it up but I just don’t see it clearly.  

The infrastructure for bios is not a one time expense.  It needs to be maintained and/or replaced over time. That is why we depreciate capital.  Also you added even more to the operations (sifting?).  

A cordwood operation is much less capital intense and likely less energy intensive.   

I’ll agree with you the environmental advantages may be there.  Also I will agree we have to get away from foreign oil before the oil rich countries buy the US in its entirety.  

Finally, I am sure bios have there place just as pellets do but I just can’t believe they are more cost effective than cord wood.


----------



## begreen

Oh, don't get me started on water. How the soda companies convinced millions their water was unsafe and then sell them city tap water for $8/gallon? These companies are laughing all the way to the bank at the planet's expense and yet are the first to fight recycling laws and deposits. They should be called on the plastic carpet and buried in their debris.


----------



## begreen

kellog said:
			
		

> Begreen,
> 
> I’m still not buying that bios are less expensive. Again no data to back it up but I just don’t see it clearly.
> 
> The infrastructure for bios is not a one time expense.  It needs to be maintained and/or replaced over time. That is why we depreciate capital.  Also you added even more to the operations (sifting?).
> 
> A cordwood operation is much less capital intense and likely less energy intensive.
> 
> I’ll agree with you the environmental advantages may be there.  Also I will agree we have to get away from foreign oil before the oil rich countries buy the US in its entirety.
> 
> Finally, I am sure bios have there place just as pellets do but I just can’t believe they are more cost effective than cord wood.



Of course, I didn't mean to imply it was maintenance free, neither are chainsaws! But the system is pretty clean. 

The difficulty in comparing to chainsaws and cord wood is that it is full of hidden variables in trucks, splitters, saws, etc. distributed over many thousands of people. It's hard to summarize the environmental impact of the manufacture, repairs, etc of all that is required for cordwood, from cutting, moving, splitting, moving again to the customer. Maybe Eric has seen some studies. But it is measured and quantified that 2 strokes are notorious polluters. A gallon mix burned saw is equal to a huge number of miles driven in a clean car.

When I get a chance I'll see if there have been any studies published on this. You could be correct, but so far I'm not convinced.


----------



## oregonrider

Are these just available on the west coast or is this an east coast item? roben.


----------



## Greg Ray

If I could find them in TX I would give them a try!! Not sure what a I would have to pay for them but they sound good!!


----------



## begreen

East coast only AFAIK.


----------



## eliter

Lame no picture of 4 tons of bricks  LAME


----------



## kellog

Begreen,

I have no arguement with you on the enviromental side only the cost side and particularly how the infrastructure drives cost. 

Although totally unsubstantiated,  I believe cordwood costs less than bios to produce and deliver. We need some more expertise than you and I have to decide this.  Where is Biopellet?  Does anyone else have some expertise that could help.


----------



## cbrodsky

kellog said:
			
		

> Begreen,
> 
> I like your thought process. So you are saying that you get 1.3 times the heat from a ton Bios than from a cord of cordwood (assuming you get the same BTU's per pound from all wood types which I think is roughly correct).



Comparing the cordwood to bricks using BG's numbers, you need 1.5 tons of Bios (at about 17MBtus/ton) to equal 1 cord of wood (25MBtus).

They are very convenient but not a cheaper option than wood unless you're paying $375/cord for wood.  (assuming the Bios are $250/ton)

-Colin


----------



## kellog

NY, 

good point. I was comparing apples to oranges when I calculated 1.3 times more heat for a ton of Bios.  I compared a ton of wood to a ton of bios not a cord of wood to a ton of bios.  However oak is one of the best woods out there but even using a less dense wood like birch bios still have no economic advantage.  

Thanks for showing me my error.


----------



## begreen

NY Soapstone said:
			
		

> kellog said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Begreen,
> 
> I like your thought process. So you are saying that you get 1.3 times the heat from a ton Bios than from a cord of cordwood (assuming you get the same BTU's per pound from all wood types which I think is roughly correct).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comparing the cordwood to bricks using BG's numbers, you need 1.5 tons of Bios (at about 17MBtus/ton) to equal 1 cord of wood (25MBtus).
> 
> They are very convenient but not a cheaper option than wood unless you're paying $375/cord for wood.  (assuming the Bios are $250/ton)
> 
> -Colin
Click to expand...


Colin, you are missing the weight of a cord of wood. That's correct as long as you remember a cord of wood is going to be 2 tons or more. So the bios make economic sense in many areas where cord wood is expensive.


----------



## kellog

Begreen,

Weight is unimportant to the economic arguement.  As you said yourself it is BTUs per dollar.  So cordwood is always less expensive in BTUs / dollar even with moderately dense woods.

This is not to say Bios are not good.  I have a friend who burned cordwood for 25 years and switched to pellets a few years ago because, at 60+ years old, he could no longer do the physical work it took to do cordwood. Bios would have saved him installing a new expensive stove.  Too bad they were not available then. 

I think Bios are a great product and have their market as stated above (in the city, people who don't want to or cannot do the physical work, people who want to be greener possibly and likely other reasons).  

Those who are looking at ecomonics as their foremost concern should stick with cordwood.


----------



## begreen

kellog said:
			
		

> Begreen,
> 
> Weight is unimportant to the economic arguement.  As you said yourself it is BTUs per dollar.  So cordwood is always less expensive in BTUs / dollar even with moderately dense woods.
> 
> This is not to say Bios are not good.  I have a friend who burned cordwood for 25 years and switched to pellets a few years ago because, at 60+ years old, he could no longer do the physical work it took to do cordwood. Bios would have saved him installing a new expensive stove.  Too bad they were not available then.
> 
> I think Bios are a great product and have their market as stated above (in the city, people who don't want to or cannot do the physical work, people who want to be greener possibly and likely other reasons).
> 
> Those who are looking at ecomonics as their foremost concern should stick with cordwood.



Sorry, I don't remember saying that. If I did it would be wrong as I have no idea what one is paying per cord for the wood. That seems to vary a lot. In most cases I would think that you are correct, even locally it is rare to see a true cord of wood costing more than $250. But in urban areas where cordwood can cost > $400/cord delivered, then the economics move towards biobricks. Not to mention, cleanliness, convenience, long burn, clean-burn, etc. which also have value. 

If bottom line cost if what is most important, typically, the best value is still cord wood. 
If the positive aspects of bio bricks or other compressed wood products are more important, then that becomes higher value.


----------



## cbrodsky

BeGreen said:
			
		

> NY Soapstone said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comparing the cordwood to bricks using BG's numbers, you need 1.5 tons of Bios (at about 17MBtus/ton) to equal 1 cord of wood (25MBtus).
> 
> They are very convenient but not a cheaper option than wood unless you're paying $375/cord for wood.  (assuming the Bios are $250/ton)
> 
> -Colin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Colin, you are missing the weight of a cord of wood. That's correct as long as you remember a cord of wood is going to be 2 tons or more. So the bios make economic sense in many areas where cord wood is expensive.
Click to expand...




			
				BeGreen said:
			
		

> A better comparison is the btus per ton. One ton of bio bricks = 17,000,000 btus (50 pkgs x 20 bricks x 17,000 btus). By comparison, a cord of white oak = 4000 - 4500#, 25,700,000 btus or if very dry, 12,850,000 btus / ton. Bio bricks emit 50% less particulates per cord burned which is impressive. Also, in a correctly packed stove, they release meaningful heat over a much longer time. This is one of the best features, especially for overnight burns.



BG - the BTU number I used (25M Btus) was your number by the cord - which is how the wood is sold.  You could do the calculation on a unit ton of each as well - but you'd have to divide the price of the cord roughly in half when translating to dollars, since a ton of wood is a lot less than a cord, as you state, and I think it makes the comparison less clear:

Example:

1 ton of BioBricks = 17M BTUs for $250
1 ton of wood = ~1/2 (cordwood price) = $200/cord * 0.5 = $100/ton = 13M BTUs for $100

Either way you'd come out to the same conclusion which you also said in your last post - you have to be paying in the ballpark of $400/cord before the biobricks are cheaper.

-Colin


----------



## kellog

> If bottom line cost if what is most important, typically, the best value is still cord wood.
> If the positive aspects of bio bricks or other compressed wood products are more important, then that becomes higher value.



I'm 100% in agreement with you now.


----------



## begreen

Colin, I think we are all in agreement. It just depends where you place the value and the local cost of wood. Right now we are seeing cordwood sell in suburban and urban environments for more than $350/cord. At this time of year it's really hard to get dry wood. So paying $350+ or even $200 a cord for unseasoned wood is a poor value if you need good heat now. For those folks, a compressed wood product is a good value. We just saw someone run into this on Long Island. Also, if you are in an area or microclimate which is subject to temperature inversions, then the cleaner burning of the compressed wood is important. When I note that the local air quality is deteriorating badly due to a stagnant system, I try to burn less and burn compressed.


----------



## kellog

fishercat,

From wikipedia,



> In the metric system, firewood is normally sold by the stere (1 m³ = ~0.276 cords).
> 
> In the United States, firewood is usually sold by the cord, 128 ft³ (3.62 m³), corresponding to a woodpile 8 ft wide × 4 ft high of 4 ft-long logs. The cord is legally defined by statute in most states.


----------



## johnnywarm

Hows the bio blocks doing ??I have a couple of Question's. First how many Blocks are in one Package? Second, how many Blocks does it take to keep the stove running for 12 hours? Third,What do the packages weigh-- 40lb????? are there 50 a pallet??


Thank you John


----------



## mjbrown

hi guys,
new to your forum and have a few quetions...

 my home is approx.1100 sq ft and wood is my primary heat this year as oil is close to $4 a gallon this year in maine.
  i bought 6 cord of hardwood this year at $100 a cord tree length and i had to work it up myself.how many ton of bio bricks would i need to be  equivalent to 6 cord of wood? i know that if i go to pellets, i would only need approx. 3 ton.


also, my stove is homemade wit a 2'x2'x2' fire box...how should i load it to have a safe efficient, and comfortable fire?my math skills suck , so i ask for any advice you may give.

thanks in advance,
Mike Brown   Hartland, Maine


----------



## staplebox

-johnnywarm,

The bricks come 50 bags to a pallet - 20-2lb bricks to a bag.  I am not sure what lenght of burn you could get.  I can get 8-9 hours during the day and have enough coals left over to get going again but the heat drops more than I like.  It takes 12 bricks to do that.  I could fit, but have never tried, another 6 in the stove.  Once you figure out how to burn them you can't beat how easy they are store and use.  However, for the heat you get they cost a good bit more than cord wood.  I only use them during the day when I am not home.  I can't get 7-9 hours with just wood, no matter how big a log I stuff in there.  I can't get the bricks in my area right now.  Supply < demand.


----------



## johnnywarm

staplebox said:
			
		

> -johnnywarm,
> 
> The bricks come 50 bags to a pallet - 20-2lb bricks to a bag. I am not sure what lenght of burn you could get. I can get 8-9 hours during the day and have enough coals left over to get going again but the heat drops more than I like. It takes 12 bricks to do that. I could fit, but have never tried, another 6 in the stove. Once you figure out how to burn them you can't beat how easy they are store and use. However, for the heat you get they cost a good bit more than cord wood. I only use them during the day when I am not home. I can't get 7-9 hours with just wood, no matter how big a log I stuff in there. I can't get the bricks in my area right now. Supply < demand.




Thanks Staplebox.

I know the people selling them around here ran out also. I can only imagine how easy they are to store seeing how pellets are to store them wood.I think the early scare tactic got everybody to at least try them,similar to when pellets ran out in 05.


Thanks again i'll give them a shot. John


----------



## crazy_dan

count me in on the frugal, cheap,and tightwad category
I will try them when they get even down to even double the cost cord wood for me thats about $20-25 a cord. Labor not included as I do not bill myself and I can not here the cellphone over the saw so people leave me alone :coolsmile: wich is always good.


----------



## mjbrown

hi guys, thought i'd stop in  and say thanx for the quik response! i posted a question on the 14th of jan. and still waiting for a answer...guess i will go with the pellet stove, at least people will answer questions for a new guy wanting to try something that might be better.

mike brown  hartland, maine


----------



## Gooserider

mjbrown said:
			
		

> hi guys, thought i'd stop in  and say thanx for the quik response! *i posted a question on the 14th of jan. and still waiting for a answer*...guess i will go with the pellet stove, at least people will answer questions for a new guy wanting to try something that might be better.
> 
> mike brown  hartland, maine



Don't know where you posted your earlier question, but if you thought it was here, it wasn't...  You are showing a total of two posts, both in this thread...  If you meant to post it here, something burped, don't know where, and it didn't make it.  Perhaps if you reposted?

Gooserider


----------



## johnnywarm

mjbrown said:
			
		

> hi guys, thought i'd stop in  and say thanx for the quik response! i posted a question on the 14th of jan. and still waiting for a answer...guess i will go with the pellet stove, at least people will answer questions for a new guy wanting to try something that might be better.
> 
> mike brown  hartland, maine




I do belive i'm going to stay using pellets. i was thinking about doing both.


----------



## Cath

Gooserider said:
			
		

> mjbrown said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hi guys, thought i'd stop in  and say thanx for the quik response! *i posted a question on the 14th of jan. and still waiting for a answer*...guess i will go with the pellet stove, at least people will answer questions for a new guy wanting to try something that might be better.
> 
> mike brown  hartland, maine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't know where you posted your earlier question, but if you thought it was here, it wasn't...  You are showing a total of two posts, both in this thread...  If you meant to post it here, something burped, don't know where, and it didn't make it.  Perhaps if you reposted?
> 
> Gooserider
Click to expand...


Goose, 
He posted it in this thread, see post # 96 a little further up. 

I think the Noobie question got lost in the activity of this hot topic.  Perhaps someone should suggest he post a separate and specific question so it can be properly addressed.  It would only get buried in this thread anyway.

ETA - I just took the liberty of PM'ing him with the suggestion that he post his Noobie questions separately.  
~Cath


----------



## Gooserider

Cath said:
			
		

> Gooserider said:
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> mjbrown said:
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> 
> hi guys, thought i'd stop in  and say thanx for the quik response! *i posted a question on the 14th of jan. and still waiting for a answer*...guess i will go with the pellet stove, at least people will answer questions for a new guy wanting to try something that might be better.
> 
> mike brown  hartland, maine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't know where you posted your earlier question, but if you thought it was here, it wasn't...  You are showing a total of two posts, both in this thread...  If you meant to post it here, something burped, don't know where, and it didn't make it.  Perhaps if you reposted?
> 
> Gooserider
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Goose,
> He posted it in this thread, see post # 96 a little further up.
> 
> I think the Noobie question got lost in the activity of this hot topic.  Perhaps someone should suggest he post a separate and specific question so it can be properly addressed.  It would only get buried in this thread anyway.
> 
> ETA - I just took the liberty of PM'ing him with the suggestion that he post his Noobie questions separately.
> ~Cath
Click to expand...


You're right, my error...   :red: I think the conversion factor I've heard is roughly 1.5 tons of BB's to 1 cord of wood, so that would be 3 tons for 2 cords, or 9 tons of BioBricks for 6 cords of wood - seems like an awful lot...

However you are also correct, in that the rest of his question would best be asked in a new thread...

Gooserider


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## DonCT

Gooserider said:
			
		

> Cath said:
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> Gooserider said:
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> mjbrown said:
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> 
> 
> 
> hi guys, thought i'd stop in  and say thanx for the quik response! *i posted a question on the 14th of jan. and still waiting for a answer*...guess i will go with the pellet stove, at least people will answer questions for a new guy wanting to try something that might be better.
> 
> mike brown  hartland, maine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't know where you posted your earlier question, but if you thought it was here, it wasn't...  You are showing a total of two posts, both in this thread...  If you meant to post it here, something burped, don't know where, and it didn't make it.  Perhaps if you reposted?
> 
> Gooserider
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Goose,
> He posted it in this thread, see post # 96 a little further up.
> 
> I think the Noobie question got lost in the activity of this hot topic.  Perhaps someone should suggest he post a separate and specific question so it can be properly addressed.  It would only get buried in this thread anyway.
> 
> ETA - I just took the liberty of PM'ing him with the suggestion that he post his Noobie questions separately.
> ~Cath
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're right, my error...   :red: I think the conversion factor I've heard is roughly 1.5 tons of BB's to 1 cord of wood, so that would be 3 tons for 2 cords, or 9 tons of BioBricks for 6 cords of wood - seems like an awful lot...
> 
> However you are also correct, in that the rest of his question would best be asked in a new thread...
> 
> Gooserider
Click to expand...


Goose, I think you have it backwords. They advertise 1 ton of Bio's equal 1.5 cords of wood.


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## Gooserider

DonCT said:
			
		

> Gooserider said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> <snip>
> I think the conversion factor I've heard is roughly 1.5 tons of BB's to 1 cord of wood, so that would be 3 tons for 2 cords, or 9 tons of BioBricks for 6 cords of wood - seems like an awful lot... However you are also correct, in that the rest of his question would best be asked in a new thread...
> Gooserider
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Goose, I think you have it backwords. They advertise 1 ton of Bio's equal 1.5 cords of wood.
Click to expand...


1.5 tons of Bios (at about 17MBtus/ton) to equal 1 cord of wood was a direct quote from earlier in this thread, The Biopellet website says one pallet (which IIRC is = 1 ton) is a replacement for one cord of 21% moisture cordwood...  I'm not sure just who to believe, though I tend to be doubtful about manufacturer claims - (look at the claims for stoves about areas heated and burn times...) - but 1 - 1 does seem a bit more reasonable...

Gooserider


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## Anji12305

BioBricks, use and storage...

I purchased 15 packs as a trial from Terleckey brothers in Amsterdam, NY.

The stuff is VERY easy to handle, and priced right to augment my local cordwood supply.

It has, however, given me fits in storage.
I'm down to the last 6 packs, and ALL of them show signs of moisture infiltrating the bricks through the package seams.

Have the larger volume users a suggestion for outdoor storage?
(Mine are stacked next to my cordwood, under a tarp and shed.)

Vermont resolute and Hearthstone Homestead stoves


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## nhtodd

I have stored mine indoors however when they arrived on the skid they were wrapped with a very heavy plastic I would think they could stay outside for a short time. I am not so sure they could stay out long term.


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## BioPellet

BeGreen said:
			
		

> The teepee is just to get 3 of them burning well. Then you need to create a solid stack of bricks surrounding the teepee as shown in the link provided.  Try to avoid airspaces in the stack. It's the tightly stacked bricks that give the slow burn. _ But don't overload the stove, that's a lot of btus. _



four BioBricks(tm) 4 - three leaning around balled up newsprint and one laying flat on top  http://www.biopellet.net/instructions.html


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## BioPellet

NY Soapstone said:
			
		

> BeGreen said:
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> NY Soapstone said:
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> Comparing the cordwood to bricks using BG's numbers, you need 1.5 tons of Bios (at about 17MBtus/ton) to equal 1 cord of wood (25MBtus).
> 
> They are very convenient but not a cheaper option than wood unless you're paying $375/cord for wood.  (assuming the Bios are $250/ton)
> 
> -Colin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Colin, you are missing the weight of a cord of wood. That's correct as long as you remember a cord of wood is going to be 2 tons or more. So the bios make economic sense in many areas where cord wood is expensive.
> 
> Click to expand...
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> BeGreen said:
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> 
> A better comparison is the btus per ton. One ton of bio bricks = 17,000,000 btus (50 pkgs x 20 bricks x 17,000 btus). By comparison, a cord of white oak = 4000 - 4500#, 25,700,000 btus or if very dry, 12,850,000 btus / ton. Bio bricks emit 50% less particulates per cord burned which is impressive. Also, in a correctly packed stove, they release meaningful heat over a much longer time. This is one of the best features, especially for overnight burns.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> BG - the BTU number I used (25M Btus) was your number by the cord - which is how the wood is sold.  You could do the calculation on a unit ton of each as well - but you'd have to divide the price of the cord roughly in half when translating to dollars, since a ton of wood is a lot less than a cord, as you state, and I think it makes the comparison less clear:
> 
> Example:
> 
> 1 ton of BioBricks = 17M BTUs for $250
> 1 ton of wood = ~1/2 (cordwood price) = $200/cord * 0.5 = $100/ton = 13M BTUs for $100
> 
> Either way you'd come out to the same conclusion which you also said in your last post - you have to be paying in the ballpark of $400/cord before the biobricks are cheaper.
> 
> -Colin
Click to expand...


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## BioPellet

BioPellet said:
			
		

> NY Soapstone said:
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> BeGreen said:
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> NY Soapstone said:
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> 
> 
> 
> Comparing the cordwood to bricks using BG's numbers, you need 1.5 tons of Bios (at about 17MBtus/ton) to equal 1 cord of wood (25MBtus).
> 
> They are very convenient but not a cheaper option than wood unless you're paying $375/cord for wood.  (assuming the Bios are $250/ton)
> 
> -Colin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Colin, you are missing the weight of a cord of wood. That's correct as long as you remember a cord of wood is going to be 2 tons or more. So the bios make economic sense in many areas where cord wood is expensive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BeGreen said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A better comparison is the btus per ton. One ton of bio bricks = 17,000,000 btus (50 pkgs x 20 bricks x 17,000 btus). By comparison, a cord of white oak = 4000 - 4500#, 25,700,000 btus or if very dry, 12,850,000 btus / ton. Bio bricks emit 50% less particulates per cord burned which is impressive. Also, in a correctly packed stove, they release meaningful heat over a much longer time. This is one of the best features, especially for overnight burns.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> BG - the BTU number I used (25M Btus) was your number by the cord - which is how the wood is sold.  You could do the calculation on a unit ton of each as well - but you'd have to divide the price of the cord roughly in half when translating to dollars, since a ton of wood is a lot less than a cord, as you state, and I think it makes the comparison less clear:
> 
> Example:
> 
> 1 ton of BioBricks = 17M BTUs for $250
> 1 ton of wood = ~1/2 (cordwood price) = $200/cord * 0.5 = $100/ton = 13M BTUs for $100
> 
> Either way you'd come out to the same conclusion which you also said in your last post - you have to be paying in the ballpark of $400/cord before the biobricks are cheaper.
> 
> Colin,  Have you ever burned BioBricks(tm)?  One pound of BioBricks  DELIVERS the same heat as 1.7 lb of 21% cordwood.  An average NE cord of wood weighs 3400 lb.  A pallet of biobricks  weighs at least 3250   they are the same.
> -Colin
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


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## cogger

I went with this wood year becasue when I want a consistent 500 degrees I find it better with wood, but still like the bio's for ease. So thus concludes my year trial run.


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