# Which UPS Battery Back Up?



## deercamp (Sep 2, 2014)

I am trying to decide which UPS to get.  The APC BE750G or the TrippLite INTERNET750U. 
Which one do you suggest?  Ty


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## Brew (Sep 3, 2014)

They have identical specs, identical prices, and both are specifically recommended by Harman.  You probably can't go wrong with either.

I'm going for the APC because they advertise a replaceable battery (don't think TrippLite does) and brand recognition.  Heard about APC power supplies for years but never heard of a TrippLite UPS before.


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## derbydude (Sep 3, 2014)

Brew said:


> They have identical specs, identical prices, and both are specifically recommended by Harman.  You probably can't go wrong with either.
> 
> I'm going for the APC because they advertise a replaceable battery (don't think TrippLite does) and brand recognition.  Heard about APC power supplies for years but never heard of a TrippLite UPS before.



How long does it last? Wouldnt you be better off getting a small generator - the Earthquake one is just 250 and lasts 12hrs on a gal
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FL89I2W/ref=gno_cart_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER


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## CaptSpiff (Sep 3, 2014)

Brew said:


> Heard about APC power supplies for years but never heard of a TrippLite UPS before.


I was buying TrippLite's in the 1990's. They both make good products. The 750 or one size larger is a good size choice.

Anyone ever jury-rig a car battery for a spent 12v UPS battery  ?


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## Bioburner (Sep 3, 2014)

derbydude said:


> How long does it last? Wouldnt you be better off getting a small generator - the Earthquake one is just 250 and lasts 12hrs on a gal
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FL89I2W/ref=gno_cart_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER


A UPS will switch and condition power automatically. I've had batteries last 6-8 years. Replacing a battery for one is not bad. Ordered one for $26 delivered for a 500va system. A battery for 750 should be around $40. Our power outages usually are less than 15 minutes and the power surge on power resumption is a killer for most electronics. I have a small genny but usually by the time one can get out to the garage to get it the event is done. Have  freestanding gas fireplace for any real event. Yes some have made extended power systems using external batteries.


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## TimfromMA (Sep 3, 2014)

Bioburner said:


> Yes some have made extended power systems using external batteries.



I've done this.


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## Heat Slinger (Sep 3, 2014)

Anyone running a generator/UPS combo for extended power outages?


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## TimfromMA (Sep 3, 2014)

Heat Slinger said:


> Anyone running a generator/UPS combo for extended power outages?



I do that too.

If I have a power failure lasting longer than 1 hour, I will typically roll out the generator. The UPS serves 3 main purposes.

1. Protect against brief outages and keep smoke out of the house.
2. Keeps the stove running if I'm away from the house for an extended period and can't fire up the generator.
3. Allows me to shut the noisy generator down at night and still keep warm.


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## Papelletman (Sep 3, 2014)

I have the APC XS1300 battery backup, I like it because it has a digital readout that lets you know some good info, like the time remaining, watt draw and more. http://www.bestbuy.com/site/apc-bac...18081367657&skuId=9307797&st=Xs1300&cp=1&lp=1

I also have a generator, however it is not hooked up the the outlet the stove runs on. Instead I have my oil burner hooked up to it, usually when our power does go out it is not for very long. I mainly got the APC just so it would give me time to shut the stove down without filling the house with smoke, and also provide surge protection.


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## Heat Slinger (Sep 3, 2014)

I have powered my stove from the genny for 4 days straight, no issues.  I would like to "clean" the power from the genny, and plan to put my UPS between the genny and the stove.  Anyone tried this?  Is a power conditioner/line conditioner required before the UPS?  Just worried about the sensitive electronics on the control board.


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## Deromax (Sep 3, 2014)

Any serious company that have a "sensitive board" in its product should use the right filtering built-in the power supply, imho.  It is only a couple of dollars worth anyway.  I can't believe that a short over voltage spike would kill a multi-thousand dollars appliance!


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## BrotherBart (Sep 3, 2014)

I would sure like to know what UPS you can run a generator through. The 12,000 VA Powerware unit I had in the basement mini data center (before I retired and sold it all) would not put up with modified/stepped sine wave input and the multiple 800 and 1,250 VA APC and Cyberpower units I have in the house now won't either.


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## mralias (Sep 4, 2014)

BrotherBart said:


> I would sure like to know what UPS you can run a generator through. The 12,000 VA Powerware unit I had in the basement mini data center (before I retired and sold it all) would not put up with modified/stepped sine wave input and the multiple 800 and 1,250 VA APC and Cyberpower units I have in the house now won't either.



What happens when the generator is running? Does the UPS just stay on battery?


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## BrotherBart (Sep 4, 2014)

Keeps going on and off battery. One of the reasons they say not to chain UPS units. It does the same thing and just runs the first one down.


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## mralias (Sep 4, 2014)

BrotherBart said:


> Keeps going on and off battery. One of the reasons they say not to chain UPS units. It does the same thing and just runs the first one down.



Strange, I have several ups's (?) of varying makes on computers, TV's, DVR CCTV system and of course the pellet stove and all seem to accept the generator power without switching. The generator does wire direct to the main house box. In all fairness I must disclose that I run the oil monster instead of the pellet stove when the power goes out as I don't like the idea of a potentially fried control board. I will have to pay closer attention next time the power goes out and see just what the all are doing.


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## TimfromMA (Sep 4, 2014)

This weekend, I will roll out the generator, fire it up then bring out my APC and plug it in. You've all made me wonder.


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## Deromax (Sep 4, 2014)

It would be useful to know what kind of generator we are talking about.  A newer, inverter type might not go well with an UPS but the traditionnal, alternator kind should be OK as the electricity it produce is similar to utility.


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## TimfromMA (Sep 4, 2014)

This is my generator except mine is recoil start.

http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/Honeywell-6039-0-Portable-Generator/p6690.html


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## Heat Slinger (Sep 4, 2014)

Deromax said:


> It would be useful to know what kind of generator we are talking about.  A newer, inverter type might not go well with an UPS but the traditionnal, alternator kind should be OK as the electricity it produce is similar to utility.



I would think the opposite would be true.  An inverter generator produces pure sine wave power, just like utility power.  Most conventional generators produce modified sine wave power...that's what gives the UPS issues.  Some correct me if I'm wrong here, I'm no expert.


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## TimfromMA (Sep 4, 2014)

An inverter takes a DC signal and transforms it into AC. The AC signal it creates is not a pure sine wave and can wreak havoc with certain electronics. An alternator is just a small version of the larger generators that generate the electricity at full size power plants. Since these alternators work just like their large counterparts, the AC they produce is also comparable.


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## Mr. Spock (Sep 4, 2014)

TimfromMA said:


> An inverter takes a DC signal and transforms it into AC. The AC signal it creates is not a pure sine wave and can wreak havoc with certain electronics.



True for a stepped sign inverter. Pure sign inverters can have harmonic distortion at or below that of grid power. Got to check those specs on generator power as well. Not all are equal but preferable over modified sign inverters.


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## Mr. Spock (Sep 4, 2014)

Heat Slinger said:


> I have powered my stove from the genny for 4 days straight, no issues.  I would like to "clean" the power from the genny, and plan to put my UPS between the genny and the stove.  Anyone tried this?  Is a power conditioner/line conditioner required before the UPS?  Just worried about the sensitive electronics on the control board.



Last time I looked into it, consumer grade UPS are not designed to filter out the harmonic distortion created by a generator or grid power. Grid power is  around 5% harmonic distortion. Some places less, some more. If your Genny is spec'd around that number no worries.


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## BrotherBart (Sep 4, 2014)

The main point is that folks need to test their setups when the lights are still on and it isn't three degrees outside.


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## Wilbur Feral (Sep 5, 2014)

BrotherBart said:


> I would sure like to know what UPS you can run a generator through. The 12,000 VA Powerware unit I had in the basement mini data center (before I retired and sold it all) would not put up with modified/stepped sine wave input and the multiple 800 and 1,250 VA APC and Cyberpower units I have in the house now won't either.


Some APC units have been sold that were designed to run off of modified sine wave generators, or in countries where the utility power is not as clean as in the US, and they perform well (but are not cheap).  I use one now, connected to external batteries (sorry, cannot remember exact model and it's two floors away right now).  Others from the same company (not designed for generator power) may perform less well.  My small, office-size Cyberpower UPS experienced the same problem on generator that you describe and were taken out of service because of that.  As you note in a later post, best to test one's entire setup when the weather is balmy and there is no need for the generator or the UPS.

Also, the closer one can get to a pure sine wave generator, the better (but more expensive).


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## briansol (Sep 5, 2014)

i run a cyberpower pure sine
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0..._m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1VVQWB5QZ6RZHHKT4Y3W

gives me about an hour to decide if i want to shut down the stove with a good end run of smoke up  the chute.   95% of my power outages here last less than 30 min, usually from a branch or some drunk idiot hitting a pole/etc more than weather (i have underground power in my street, but the main state road is above ground).

A generator is still on my list to do, but i still can't justify the expense of something I won't use enough, and probably won't have fuel on hand for that is stabelized... etc.   I have a cord of wood in the back yard, and if things got THaT cold, i'd pull the exhaust and stove out and start burning and deal with re-installing later.

Or, just shut my water off and go to my parent's house about 3 miles away who have a gas fireplace and external tank and a spare bedroom :D


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## TimfromMA (Sep 6, 2014)

A few years back, a pretty bad ice storm rolled through the area. There were lots of people who lost power for days and even weeks. I was lucky enough to not lose power at all. My elderly mother-in-law was living with us at the time. She watched the news stories and got real paranoid about what would happen if we ever lost power so she insisted we get a generator. I flat out refused to spend that kind of money on something that would would spend 99.999999% of it's time collecting dust in the garage. She then told me to go pick out a generator and that she would pay for it. Talk about a deal you can't refuse? A couple years later, she moved out of our house into elderly housing leaving the generator behind. Got to love a free generator.


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## Brew (Sep 6, 2014)

TimfromMA said:


> Got to love a free generator.



Some days you win!


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## TimfromMA (Sep 7, 2014)

I checked today to see if my APC would run ok on the generator and it does.

On wall AC






On battery.






On generator.


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## Bioburner (Sep 7, 2014)

TimfromMA said:


> I checked today to see if my APC would run ok on the generator and it does.
> 
> On wall AC
> 
> ...


What model UPS and what make and model Genny?


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## TimfromMA (Sep 7, 2014)

My UPS is an APC Back-UPS XS 1500

My generator is a Honeywell 6200 389cc portable generator.


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## BrotherBart (Sep 7, 2014)

Good deal. If it does the same thing with a load connected to the UPS ya got a winning setup there.


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## mralias (Sep 7, 2014)

BrotherBart said:


> Good deal. If it does the same thing with a load connected to the UPS ya got a winning setup there.


You stole my question. Was wondering if it runs just as well on a start up.


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## TimfromMA (Sep 7, 2014)

Ok, my next test will be firing up the stove on generator.


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## RhodyPelletRook (Oct 11, 2014)

TimfromMA said:


> A few years back, a pretty bad ice storm rolled through the area. There were lots of people who lost power for days and even weeks. I was lucky enough to not lose power at all. My elderly mother-in-law was living with us at the time. She watched the news stories and got real paranoid about what would happen if we ever lost power so she insisted we get a generator. I flat out refused to spend that kind of money on something that would would spend 99.999999% of it's time collecting dust in the garage. She then told me to go pick out a generator and that she would pay for it. Talk about a deal you can't refuse? A couple years later, she moved out of our house into elderly housing leaving the generator behind. Got to love a free generator.



If you have a mother in law that puts her money where he mouth is... KEEP HER... AND HER DAUGHTER!


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## Phoenix Hatchling (Oct 11, 2014)

This one..


http://www.amazon.com/APC-BR1500G-B...F8&qid=1413026323&sr=8-1&keywords=apc+bx1500g


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## gfreek (Oct 11, 2014)

Phoenix Hatchling said:


> This one..
> http://www.amazon.com/APC-BR1500G-B...F8&qid=1413026323&sr=8-1&keywords=apc bx1500g



That's a "stepped sinewave" APC.  How does your Harman run on it and for how long??


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## RhodyPelletRook (Oct 11, 2014)

deercamp said:


> I am trying to decide which UPS to get.  The APC BE750G or the TrippLite INTERNET750U.
> Which one do you suggest?  Ty


I just bought the APC mentioned here from WallyWorld. I think it was $89 on sale. Thanks for bringing this up again, a great reminder.


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## Pellet-King (Oct 11, 2014)

Several years ago i bought a Tripplite from Costco, had it for over a year and power never went out, until the big October snowstorm 3 year's ago that killed the power for a week, I was very disappointed it only ran my stove for a few minutes and my stoves uses less than 75watt's, I returned it, It also made my fans sound weird hum, I liked the digital meter on it as I could monitor my Generator voltage, I should buy another soon.


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## Deromax (Oct 11, 2014)

Pellet-King said:


> Several years ago i bought a Tripplite from Costco, had it for over a year and power never went out, until the big October snowstorm 3 year's ago that killed the power for a week, I was very disappointed it only ran my stove for a few minutes and my stoves uses less than 75watt's, I returned it, It also made my fans sound weird hum, I liked the digital meter on it as I could monitor my Generator voltage, I should buy another soon.



That's because you bought an underpowered device for your application, not because it was a Triplite.  Small UPS are meant to give you the time to properly shut off the stove, not to run it for a week!


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## TimfromMA (Oct 11, 2014)

You need roughly 200aH of battery life to run a stove for 24hours.


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## Pellet-King (Oct 12, 2014)

Deromax said:


> That's because you bought an underpowered device for your application, not because it was a Triplite.  Small UPS are meant to give you the time to properly shut off the stove, not to run it for a week!


I remember it was a big one, stand up 1500 series, with digital readout like Tim's above, should of ran for hour's, maybe the battery was chit


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## TimfromMA (Oct 12, 2014)

Pellet-King said:


> I remember it was a big one, stand up 1500 series, with digital readout like Tim's above, should of ran for hour's, maybe the battery was chit



I wired in bigger batteries to get an extended run.


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## Pellet-King (Oct 12, 2014)

Tim i returned it 2 years ago to Costco, lifetime return policy, looking into a pure sine model, but really been burning for 16+ years without a backup and never had a issue only once with the tripplite


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## derbydude (Oct 12, 2014)

RhodyPelletRook said:


> I just bought the APC mentioned here from WallyWorld. I think it was $89 on sale. Thanks for bringing this up again, a great reminder.


Wally World? thats a real place?


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## bdud (Oct 12, 2014)

Pellet-King said:


> I remember it was a big one, stand up 1500 series, with digital readout like Tim's above, should of ran for hour's, maybe the battery was chit


I bought a pair of Tripplite 750's for my kids computers and after a week I cut some circuit breakers to do some electrical work and both pc's just powered off, junk. I replaced them with APC 750's and no problem.


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## Pellet-King (Oct 12, 2014)

Consensus is Tripp-lite is GARBAGE!!


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## SwineFlue (Oct 12, 2014)

derbydude said:


> Wally World? thats a real place?


Yes.  Some people refer to it as Walmart.


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## bdud (Oct 13, 2014)

Most portable generators are designed for job sites to supply power for saws, compressors, lights, heaters, etc. If the output varies due load shift, either up or down, as compressors turn on and off, if the output is a square wave, maybe even ragged, motor windings most times do not care. Most battery UPS's also do not smooth the incoming voltage, so putting your tv or stove on a UPS and using your generator does not necessarily protect them, UPS's do have surge protection. It does not necessarily cause components to fail straight away but could shorten their life. Inverter generators and stationary generators are a different breed, their output is a smooth sine wave and designed for use with expensive electronics. Obviously more expensive but useful features doing a power outage, quieter, less fuel consumption, etc. FYI I do have a UPS on my stove and it is not a Tripplite. 
YMMV.


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## lagger (Oct 13, 2014)

briansol said:


> i run a cyberpower pure sine
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0..._m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1VVQWB5QZ6RZHHKT4Y3W
> 
> gives me about an hour to decide if i want to shut down the stove with a good end run of smoke up  the chute.   95% of my power outages here last less than 30 min, usually from a branch or some drunk idiot hitting a pole/etc more than weather (i have underground power in my street, but the main state road is above ground).
> ...



hmmm coupled with an inexpensive 2 stroke generator @ 900w  this might be just the solution I'm looking for and comes in at a total of  ~300.00  2 stroke fuel is stabilized by the oil content and I always have a supply on hand for weed wacker, leaf blower and chain saw etc anyway.  the issue brought up in the post above regarding uneven generator output and lack of filtering by the ups seems to be addressed by the ups mentioned in the quote in this post, it handles surges and uneven power and output is pure sine wave.  anyone tell me where I may be wrong here please


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## briansol (Oct 14, 2014)

I have that HF pos 900 watt jobber, and it would NOT kick on my stove.  ignition drew too much.   it could maintain it but it would not bring it up from a cold start.... the convection blower initial surge tripped it over and over again every time it tired to ramp up.  remember, when plugged in to a 'wall' (or generator) the ups isn't using it's power supply, only the wall.

it's also loud as fk and rattles to all hell.  worst $99 i ever spent.  lol


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## Wilbur Feral (Oct 16, 2014)

lagger said:


> hmmm coupled with an inexpensive 2 stroke generator @ 900w  this might be just the solution I'm looking for and comes in at a total of  ~300.00  2 stroke fuel is stabilized by the oil content and I always have a supply on hand for weed wacker, leaf blower and chain saw etc anyway.  the issue brought up in the post above regarding uneven generator output and lack of filtering by the ups seems to be addressed by the ups mentioned in the quote in this post, it handles surges and uneven power and output is pure sine wave.  anyone tell me where I may be wrong here please


I have an older APC designed to output 1800 watts (15 amps @ 120V) or more.  Cannot remember model and it's two floors away in the garage, but believe its 2200.  Also designed to accept "dirty" power (non sine wave). APC made these for servers running on gen power and also sold a 240V variation for use in countries with uncertain power.  Almost certain similar models are still made. 

Works like a dream, does great job of cleaning up the dirty power, and recharges off the gen.  You see these on Craigslist bc people want to unload them when batteries need replaced, or when a business folds, etc.  I like ours so much I'm going to buy a spare when I see a good deal, for when this one eventually goes kaput.  Had it 7 years now, and keep it running 24/7 to power the MVAE, Fios interface, router and home theater PC because of its surge protection and power cleanup.  No battery usage until power goes out.


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## Griff726 (Oct 16, 2014)

briansol said:


> i run a cyberpower pure sine
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0..._m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1VVQWB5QZ6RZHHKT4Y3W
> 
> gives me about an hour to decide if i want to shut down the stove with a good end run of smoke up  the chute.   95% of my power outages here last less than 30 min, usually from a branch or some drunk idiot hitting a pole/etc more than weather (i have underground power in my street, but the main state road is above ground).
> ...



That's the one that I have on my amazon wish list.


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## RhodyPelletRook (Oct 16, 2014)

Interesting story. I searched for a Wally world ship to store APC BE750G, but received a 700, so returned it at the counter, drove home and re ordered the 750 via Amazon.com from APC with free Amazon Prime shipping.  When it comes in next week I'll let you know what I think.... Love the curve balls in life.


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