# Okanagan Douglas Fir



## JohnD (Sep 22, 2014)

I just talked to a gentleman at East Coast Lumber in Hampstead, NH. I was going to order 2 tons of New England Wood Pellets and 2 tons od Okanagan Golds. The NEWP's were $279/ton and Okanagan Gold's were $299.... Both were sold out today. The gentleman at East Coast said that 3 tons of Okanagan Douglas Firs would last as long as 4 tons of the other two.... So he said the $375/ton would average out because of the quality of the pellet. I've had bad luck in the past with other so called super premium pellets....Anyone have an opinion, preferably based on experience with any or all of these brands? Thanks....


----------



## briansol (Sep 22, 2014)

DF is the best of the best.  i don't know if the are worth that price, but they are HOT.


----------



## Edward Hughes (Sep 22, 2014)

JohnD said:


> I just talked to a gentleman at East Coast Lumber in Hampstead, NH. I was going to order 2 tons of New England Wood Pellets and 2 tons od Okanagan Golds. The NEWP's were $279/ton and Okanagan Gold's were $299.... Both were sold out today. The gentleman at East Coast said that 3 tons of Okanagan Douglas Firs would last as long as 4 tons of the other two.... So he said the $375/ton would average out because of the quality of the pellet. I've had bad luck in the past with other so called super premium pellets....Anyone have an opinion, preferably based on experience with any or all of these brands? Thanks....


You should put the brand of stove, in your signature.


----------



## bosshog919 (Sep 22, 2014)

DF's are REAL deal They command the high price b/c they are tht good!! NO ash and HOT HOT HOT!!


----------



## Profilebrewing (Sep 22, 2014)

Kind of surprised ECL is sold out of NEWP and the Oakie golds. I was at ECL all day this past Thursday, and although the inventory looked like it was down a bit, there still looked to be quite a bit of each. They did have a pretty massive amount of Douglas fir. I'd bet around 100 tons. Never tried them and probably never will at that price.


----------



## fmsm (Sep 22, 2014)

3 tons of DF's in the shed!

Like the picture of EJ! Brings back memories or is it Gilbert?


----------



## Pete Zahria (Sep 22, 2014)

JohnD said:


> .... Both were sold out today. The gentleman at East Coast said that 3 tons of Okanagan Douglas Firs would last as long as 4 tons of the other two.... So he said the $375/ton would average out because of the quality of the pellet. ...



Sounds pretty optimistic..


----------



## JohnD (Sep 22, 2014)

Edward Hughes said:


> You should put the brand of stove, in your signature.


I have a Quadrafire CB1200 free standing installed October 2012


----------



## TimfromMA (Sep 22, 2014)

Here's 12000lbs of them.


----------



## JohnD (Sep 22, 2014)

I know they are expensive and hot... I burned a couple bags last year out of curiosity. My thing now is if 3 tons of the Douglas fir will last as long as 4 tons of NEWP or Okanagan Gold? That is what the guy at East Coast Lumber told me. I know it depends on a ton of variables...... My stove is always clean, and usually burn on the same setting all the time.... I'm saying if all things are equal with variables, what is the opinion of the masses?


----------



## JohnD (Sep 22, 2014)

TimfromMA said:


> Here's 12000lbs of them.


Where did you get these at $345/ton and do they burn as long as I've been told. Do I only need 3 tons of these as opposed to 4 tons of NEWP or Okanagan Golds?


----------



## TimfromMA (Sep 22, 2014)

Royal Fireside in Mendon, MA


----------



## mepellet (Sep 22, 2014)

Pete Zahria said:


> Sounds pretty optimistic..


Very optimistic to me.


----------



## mepellet (Sep 22, 2014)

Check out the BTUs/$ and that week show you that 3 tons of df will clearly not equal 4 tons of newp.


----------



## Phoenix Hatchling (Sep 22, 2014)

Three tons DF equal to four tons of others?? Don't quite believe that. I have found some premiums burned hotter than others, and some producing less ash. My favorite all time pellet ran around 280 per ton, and burned hot and clean. But I would never say that I got 33% greater yield from them. A bag didn't last 8 hours longer than the other brands, nor did they put out 12k BTUs compared to my other 9k brand. Justify a $95 bump in price per ton? Nope!


----------



## md2002 (Sep 22, 2014)

I tried some of these last year because it was all they had left and like others I was curious. It was at Royal Fireside in Mendon as well. I brought them home and I wasn't all that impressed. I know I'm in the minority but for the price I was expecting a WOW moment and not at all. The one thing I was VERY impressed with was the ash content, I mean there was NO ash at all after 2 bags were burnt. However, the heat they put out wasn't any more heat than the heat I was getting from the Timer Heat pellets I got at Lowes and the Timber heats were $180 a ton cheaper. There is NO WAY the douglas fir is worth all that extra money, IMO. As for him telling you 3 tons is like 4 tons of any other pellet I don't believe that all... maybe you'll save a little and burn less but certainly not 50 bags less. I don't feel like the Douglas Fir is worth the price they charge unless you're rich or you REALLY hate cleaning your stove because you could probably go a month without emptying the ash.


----------



## mepellet (Sep 22, 2014)

md2002 said:


> unless you're rich or you REALLY hate cleaning your stove because you could probably go a month without emptying the ash.


I empty my ash bin once a month with box store pellets.....


----------



## Harman Lover 007 (Sep 23, 2014)

mepellet said:


> I empty my ash bin once a month with box store pellets.....


me too.....


----------



## jtakeman (Sep 23, 2014)

Phoenix Hatchling said:


> Three tons DF equal to four tons of others?? Don't quite believe that.



Me neither! 

I think someone's gonna be short on fuel come spring!


----------



## JohnD (Sep 23, 2014)

Thanks.... I was skeptical as well. I will wait for the NEWP or the Okanagan Golds...
As always, everyone is helpful here and I appreciate the replies...


----------



## JohnD (Sep 23, 2014)

I usually go with the Maine Woods which I love but I can only find them at Dodge Grain in Salem. They charge $30/Ton for delivery I live 3/4 mile from them... I'm not paying $120 for them to deliver 4 tons not even a mile. Other places charge between $39-$85 to deliver up to 75-80 miles! 
What's up Dodge Grain?


----------



## md2002 (Sep 23, 2014)

Harman Lover 007 said:


> me too.....



Let me rephrase. I have an insert which does not have much of an ash pan.. If I go 3 nights without cleaning my stove I consider myself lucky. With the DF, i could probably go a month.


----------



## skibumm100 (Sep 23, 2014)

Maybe 9 tons of DF = 10 tons of Green Supreme? I need pellets and only live a couple miles from ECL but I seldom buy from them. I bought some Okie gold and Okie platinum from them last year to test. They were OK but too expensive for what you got. If I could get Fallon's to answer the phone I may be getting a ton or two this weekend.


----------



## Pete Zahria (Sep 23, 2014)

JohnD said:


> Thanks.... I was skeptical as well. I will wait for the NEWP or the Okanagan Golds...
> As always, everyone is helpful here and I appreciate the replies...



If you want the NEWP, when you find them, you'd better pull the trigger quick..

Dan


----------



## mepellet (Sep 23, 2014)

md2002 said:


> Let me rephrase. I have an insert which does not have much of an ash pan.. If I go 3 nights without cleaning my stove I consider myself lucky. With the DF, i could probably go a month.


Oh we understand. One advantage of a stand alone stove instead of an insert is the ash pan size.


----------



## md2002 (Sep 23, 2014)

mepellet said:


> Oh we understand. One advantage of a stand alone stove instead of an insert is the ash pan size.



You don't have to tell me my friend, I'm the one that needs to clean out the ash pan every 2 nights  Maybe one of these years my wife will decide to chip in with the ash cleaning duties.


----------



## md2002 (Sep 23, 2014)

skibumm100 said:


> Maybe 9 tons of DF = 10 tons of Green Supreme? I need pellets and only live a couple miles from ECL but I seldom buy from them. I bought some Okie gold and Okie platinum from them last year to test. They were OK but too expensive for what you got. If I could get Fallon's to answer the phone I may be getting a ton or two this weekend.



I agree on the quality vs. the price. I've only been doing this for 3 years now and the price of pellets is getting ridiculous! I got Lacretes this year at $360 for 1.3 tons, when I bought them from the same place 2 years ago they were $305 for 1.3 tons and delivery was only $20.00 back then, this year delivery was $75!!  The price increase is hitting Lowes as well.... the Timber Heats I got there last year are .58 cents more per bag this year. When you're talking 200 bags that adds up.


----------



## New Hampshire Jim (Sep 23, 2014)

I have been a burner of the Oakies for the last 4 or 5 years. Last year at the end of the season I picker up 10 bags of the Douglas fir to try out. I didn't see a big difference in the heat output or much change In the ash content .Certainly not a buck twenty a bag more. I would call what the salesman at ECL said as B.S.
Now that said Home and Hearth (Fallons) Is out of Vermont's and doesn't see a delivery In the near future of them. SO With ECL out Fallons out and Pellets Direct out of the good stuff If It were me as a hedge against not finding any I would pick up the Douglas Fir Bite the bullet on the price and see what happens with the pellet inventory going forward into the burning season. I don't have a warm and fuzzy feeling this year about seeing excess inventory. Way to early to be seeing suppliers running out.
Jim


----------



## JohnD (Sep 23, 2014)

jtakeman said:


> Me neither!
> 
> I think someone's gonna be short on fuel come spring!


So no way is 3tons of DF's equal to 4 tons of NEWP? I thought it sounded too good to be true... That's why I asked....
Thanks


----------



## ttdberg (Sep 23, 2014)

The DFs are the hottest I've ever burned.  Will 3 tons last as long as 4 tons of another pellet?  That remains to be seen, and I agree with the others it seems unlikely.  I think what would tend to happen (at least in my case) is 3 tons DFs would last the same amount of time as 3 tons of any pellets.  I tend to keep my stove at the same settings no matter what I'm burning.  If I'm using NEWPs let's say, I'm getting XYZ heat value from them.  If I'm using the DFs, I'm getting a lot more heat at the same feed / burn rate.  So with DFs, the house is more comfortable in general, and the stove doesn't have to work as hard to get out of it's own way, but I'm also not burning less pellets.  This is most relevant on the coldest days of the year when the stove really has to work hard to keep the house up to temp.  $375/ton?  No.  Given the available choices, I would wait for the Golds to come back in stock, or see if you can find some La Cretes or North Country - those generally go for ~$300/ton as well and are excellent choices.  You can get 5 tons of those for the same price as 4 tons of the DFs.  If none of those are options, you could try your local Lowes, TSC, or HD and pick up what they have to offer for ~$240/ton this year.  Worst case scenario you'd be getting Green Supremes which are the same as NEWPs anyway.


----------



## Havilcek stole the ball (Sep 23, 2014)

I put one ton of OK DF's into the 5 ton mix this year for use when it's single digit weather, although I've yet to max out the settings on the P-68 no matter what the weather. More curiosity that anything, I guess.


----------



## stoveguy2esw (Sep 23, 2014)

love the screen name "Havilcek stole the ball"  lol,


----------



## md2002 (Sep 23, 2014)

New Hampshire Jim said:


> I have been a burner of the Oakies for the last 4 or 5 years. Last year at the end of the season I picker up 10 bags of the Douglas fir to try out. I didn't see a big difference in the heat output or much change In the ash content .Certainly not a buck twenty a bag more. I would call what the salesman at ECL said as B.S.
> Now that said Home and Hearth (Fallons) Is out of Vermont's and doesn't see a delivery In the near future of them. SO With ECL out Fallons out and Pellets Direct out of the good stuff If It were me as a hedge against not finding any I would pick up the Douglas Fir Bite the bullet on the price and see what happens with the pellet inventory going forward into the burning season. I don't have a warm and fuzzy feeling this year about seeing excess inventory. Way to early to be seeing suppliers running out.
> Jim



Well said, I bought some LaCretes and paid more than I wanted to but everywhere I called pellets were out of stock and I didn't want to get caught this year with no pellets. I still swing into Lowes just about every night to pick up 10 bags if they have them for an extra cushion and more times than not Lowes is out if pellets when I go in there.  A friend of mine called the local Lowes and they told them they have 30 tons but their all spoken for. I would take what you can get. I have 200 bags of Lacretes and about 60 bags of Timber Heats... I have no interest in paying $7 a bag this year as I had to do last year.


----------



## ttdberg (Sep 23, 2014)

Havilcek stole the ball said:


> I put one ton of OK DF's into the 5 ton mix this year for use when it's single digit weather, although I've yet to max out the settings on the P-68 no matter what the weather. More curiosity that anything, I guess.


Same here.  For me they are somewhat of a novelty, and definitely outside my comfort level as far as cost.  It was a tough decision, but I do have a ton in the bunker for use exclusively during single digit / sub-zero temp weather.  To offset the price, I also stocked up on a variety of different less costly brands as well.  That helps to lower the average "per-bag" price into a more comfortable range, and allows me to sample different kinds of pellets so I know if they are worth buying again in the future.


----------



## Edward Hughes (Sep 23, 2014)

jtakeman said:


> Me neither!
> 
> I think someone's gonna be short on fuel come spring!


 Hello jtakeman, I thought that DF "BS" would bring you out. Its fall an the stories start.
I had to check your comparison list again, just in case I had over look those Pellets.
Hope there will be some up dates, this year
Good burning


----------



## TimfromMA (Sep 23, 2014)

This year will be my first using the DF pellets. Prior years, I've used Okie platinums. I've kept records and graphs of my pellet uasge over the past several years so it will be easy to gauge what, if any, effect the DF pellets have on my overall pellet consumption. I still have 20 or so bags of platinums left before I'm on DF exclusively.


----------



## Pete Zahria (Sep 23, 2014)

New Hampshire Jim said:


> ....Now that said Home and Hearth (Fallons) Is out of Vermont's and doesn't see a delivery In the near future of them.
> SO With ECL out Fallons out and Pellets Direct out of the good stuff ....
> I don't have a warm and fuzzy feeling this year about seeing excess inventory.
> Way to early to be seeing suppliers running out.
> Jim



Could be a rollercoaster season.
Right now, everyone wants pellets, and fast, and more than usual.
Many laughed at the notion of buying in May/June, calling it a scheme.
It wasn't a scheme. It was trying to avoid this situation.
Another big dealer in this area, is calling all of their customers, and telling
them they will not be able to fulfill their orders. Talk about some wild people..
Being on a list, steady customers for years, and being told near October that they
are on their own? We had over a dozen call today looking for 4-5 tons.
This was the first day of the announcement!
Problem is, as mentioned above, we and other dealers are having a tough time getting stock.
We could have sold 3 truckloads today.
We get one sometimes 2 a week. Same for others.
So not only was the business rough enough, now there is a big market of "new" people.
And most of them are being told, sorry... at least for now.
So right now, it's serious. And to add to the frustration, prices are going up.
But.. all indications are that it may settle in November.
But then get ready again for spring if predictions for a tough winter materialize..

We'll see.


----------



## Profilebrewing (Sep 23, 2014)

ECL is not out of pellets. I was there again today. They had DF and new England's right in the middle of the lumber yard. I didn't make it out back to see what they had back there, but 5 days ago there was a lot.


----------



## dtrace (Sep 24, 2014)

ttdberg said:


> The DFs are the hottest I've ever burned.  Will 3 tons last as long as 4 tons of another pellet?  That remains to be seen, and I agree with the others it seems unlikely.  I think what would tend to happen (at least in my case) is 3 tons DFs would last the same amount of time as 3 tons of any pellets.  I tend to keep my stove at the same settings no matter what I'm burning.  If I'm using NEWPs let's say, I'm getting XYZ heat value from them.  If I'm using the DFs, I'm getting a lot more heat at the same feed / burn rate.  So with DFs, the house is more comfortable in general, and the stove doesn't have to work as hard to get out of it's own way, but I'm also not burning less pellets.  This is most relevant on the coldest days of the year when the stove really has to work hard to keep the house up to temp.  $375/ton?  No.  Given the available choices, I would wait for the Golds to come back in stock, or see if you can find some La Cretes or North Country - those generally go for ~$300/ton as well and are excellent choices.  You can get 5 tons of those for the same price as 4 tons of the DFs.  If none of those are options, you could try your local Lowes, TSC, or HD and pick up what they have to offer for ~$240/ton this year.  Worst case scenario you'd be getting Green Supremes which are the same as NEWPs anyway.



I just got my North Country in. I took a peak at the first few bags, and they seem to be loaded with fines on the bottom.  any similar experiences with this type of problem? I've heard they are a fantastic pellet


----------



## ttdberg (Sep 24, 2014)

dtrace said:


> I just got my North Country in. I took a peak at the first few bags, and they seem to be loaded with fines on the bottom.  any similar experiences with this type of problem? I've heard they are a fantastic pellet


Mine look the same way.  I've found that pretty much any pellets that come in bag with clear bottom look like they have lots of fines when viewing the bottom in the bag.  Don't worry about that.  See what things look like when you load them in the hopper.


----------



## chken (Sep 24, 2014)

Based upon the reports I've read the BTUs in a bag of DF pellets is at most 10% more than in your avg big box store brand. Something like 8800 BTUs for Okies vs 8000 for your average stuff. There's no way that 3 tons of DF can equal 4 tons of the regular stuff. When you do the math, you'll find that the BTU/$ of the expensive stuff isn't a good value. However, I love DF pellets and if I could afford them, I'd buy them not for the heat, but for the cleanliness. They leave so little ash behind.

Last thing, once pellets get to around $8 a bag, you're getting into oil heat territory. That is, oil heat becomes price competitive, once pellets get up to around $8 a bag. And, given that you don't' have to do all that labor as with pellets, then there's little reason to buy expensive pellets when there is a shortage if you have oil backup.


----------



## alternativeheat (Sep 25, 2014)

chken said:


> Based upon the reports I've read the BTUs in a bag of DF pellets is at most 10% more than in your avg big box store brand. Something like 8800 BTUs for Okies vs 8000 for your average stuff. There's no way that 3 tons of DF can equal 4 tons of the regular stuff. When you do the math, you'll find that the BTU/$ of the expensive stuff isn't a good value. However, I love DF pellets and if I could afford them, I'd buy them not for the heat, but for the cleanliness. They leave so little ash behind.
> 
> Last thing, once pellets get to around $8 a bag, you're getting into oil heat territory. That is, oil heat becomes price competitive, once pellets get up to around $8 a bag. And, given that you don't' have to do all that labor as with pellets, then there's little reason to buy expensive pellets when there is a shortage if you have oil backup.


Yes true. I have DF's for mid season burn when I will use two bags per day or even more on some really cold nights. When I hit 3 bags I mix them with a bag of what ever else I have on hand and that still cuts ash by quite a lot. Although here and as I recall last year the bags read 9200 BTU and some box store pellets are only 7800 ( Green Supreme I'm pretty sure is only 7800 actually). And the dealer this year has DF listed as 9200 again FWIW. . But anyway, I use them for the lack of ash as well in the mid season burn. I probably will use Energex again this year, the hards are advertised as 8700 BTU, definitely more ash than DF. I was hoping for Spruce Pointe but not at 7..49 a bag for 8700 BTU when Energex Hards are $5.85 when you buy a ton and also advertised as 8700 btu. I'm picking up a ton of those this week. I might run LG's for my shoulder season pellets, easy lighting pellets. They burn faster than LaCrete or Spruce Pointe but that won't matter much in the shoulder season ( also $5,85 a bag by the ton). I have some Energex Premiums now rated at 8600.


----------



## jtakeman (Sep 26, 2014)

JohnD said:


> So no way is 3tons of DF's equal to 4 tons of NEWP? I thought it sounded too good to be true... That's why I asked....
> Thanks


No way would 3 tons = 4 of another. Doing the math I don't see it.

8800 for DF and 8000 for NEWP. Is only a 10% difference. And thats the lab world not real world were you won't even see that. Once you factor in variables you probably only see approx 5% IMHO. Not even worth the extra cash if your frugal. But if you want to clean far less? The ash content is where the big difference is. Better than 50% less so you could go 2X as long between cleanings!! And this is where these pellets stand out IMHO. Cold spells where you can't afford to shutdown every few days to clean. Having the bit of extra heat doesn't hurt during these times as well.

If ya can't find the NEWP's go to the boxstores. They have Green Supreme's which are the same pellet.

Good luck!



Edward Hughes said:


> Hello jtakeman, I thought that DF "BS" would bring you out. Its fall an the stories start.
> I had to check your comparison list again, just in case I had over look those Pellets.
> Hope there will be some up dates, this year
> Good burning



I won't be testing much these days. Life takes turns and I have too many other distractions. Raising a teenager is one of them. Sorry!!


----------



## Edward Hughes (Sep 26, 2014)

jtakeman said:


> No way would 3 tons = 4 of another. Doing the math I don't see it.
> 
> 8800 for DF and 8000 for NEWP. Is only a 10% difference. And thats the lab world not real world were you won't even see that. Once you factor in variables you probably only see approx 5% IMHO. Not even worth the extra cash if your frugal. But if you want to clean far less? The ash content is where the big difference is. Better than 50% less so you could go 2X as long between cleanings!! And this is where these pellets stand out IMHO. Cold spells where you can't afford to shutdown every few days to clean. Haven't the bit of extra heat doesn't hurt during these times as well.
> 
> ...


 Well it is good to see ya back since aug 22.  I know those teenagers, can be busy
Thanks for all the work, on the wood pellet comparison, and maybe some of us can fill in some updates.
Good Luck


----------



## moey (Sep 26, 2014)

Problem with spending that much is you may as well burn oil.


----------



## TimfromMA (Sep 26, 2014)

Pellets would have to climb over $500 per ton or oil will have to go below $2 per gallon before I switch back.


----------



## steveg_nh (Nov 18, 2014)

I know this thread is a couple of months old, but it was a good read. Oil price per gallon is only part of it. You have to look at how efficient your oil burner is as well. For me, in Jan, Feb and March, my past 4 years oil consumption shows me burning about 7-9 gallons of oil PER DAY! At even $2.50 a gallon, that's $20 in oil in one day. With pellets at $5.50/bag, if even if I needed 3 bags, that's only $16.50, a savings of 17.5% still, over oil...


----------



## Phoenix Hatchling (Nov 18, 2014)

steveg_nh said:


> I know this thread is a couple of months old, but it was a good read. Oil price per gallon is only part of it. You have to look at how efficient your oil burner is as well. For me, in Jan, Feb and March, my past 4 years oil consumption shows me burning about 7-9 gallons of oil PER DAY! At even $2.50 a gallon, that's $20 in oil in one day. With pellets at $5.50/bag, if even if I needed 3 bags, that's only $16.50, a savings of 17.5% still, over oil...



Try this calculator and enter your efficiencies for both units and cost paid. For me my break even point with oil is $2.52 per gallon, since I paid 300 per ton for pellets.

http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/heatcalc.xls


----------



## steveg_nh (Nov 18, 2014)

Cool, thanks.


----------



## bcarton (Nov 19, 2014)

According to that spreadsheet pellets would have to reach $900/ton to cost as much as my 98% efficient electric heat.


----------



## TimfromMA (Nov 19, 2014)

Efficiency does not equate to economy. If a heating appliance is 80% efficient, it means that 80% of the energy put in comes back out in the form of heat. Even if you had a 100% efficient source of heat, if the energy you put in is expensive, it will still be expensive to operate.


----------



## bcarton (Nov 19, 2014)

I was being completely serious. My total cost per kWh here is $.23194, or $69.37 per million Btu at 98% efficiency.  Pellets at $900/ton and 78% efficiency would cost $69.93/ million Btu. You are absolutely right about the cost of that energy.


----------



## chken (Nov 19, 2014)

bcarton said:


> I was being completely serious. My total cost per kWh here is $.23194, or $69.37 per million Btu at 98% efficiency.  Pellets at $900/ton and 78% efficiency would cost $69.93/ million Btu. You are absolutely right about the cost of that energy.


Wow, electricity in NH is very expensive! I know my electricity went up this year in Maine, so you scared me to go check to see how much. Last year I paid a little over 14 cents a kWh, and this year, it's 15.3 per kWh. Whew! I thought we might be over 20 cents too.


----------



## steveg_nh (Nov 19, 2014)

bcarton said:


> According to that spreadsheet pellets would have to reach $900/ton to cost as much as my 98% efficient electric heat.



WOW!


----------



## steveg_nh (Nov 19, 2014)

chken said:


> Wow, electricity in NH is very expensive! I know my electricity went up this year in Maine, so you scared me to go check to see how much. Last year I paid a little over 14 cents a kWh, and this year, it's 15.3 per kWh. Whew! I thought we might be over 20 cents too.



For us, on Unitil, or kWH rate is about .15 per I think. But they keep raising the delivery charges. I guess there's some shortage of natural gas, and as of 11/1, our delivery charge is rising again (they just raised it in May), another 35-40%. Should be another $50/mo for us. How the states just rubber stamp this stuff is beyond me.


----------



## bcarton (Nov 19, 2014)

That rate is for Liberty Utilities, and it includes both the delivery cost and the energy service cost. The energy cost alone just shot up 47% to $.15487, and the delivery charge (over 250 kWh) adds up to $.07707. I expect to fully recover the cost of a used, installed pellet stove in one season.


----------



## TimfromMA (Nov 19, 2014)

$0.24 per kW in MA if you use over 500kwH per month. Last month we used 502kwH...grrrrrrrr.


----------



## bcarton (Nov 19, 2014)

That's just wrong. If you go over the 500 they stick you with the higher price for all the kWh? Here, it's a very slightly lower price for the 1st 250, then anything beyond that gets charged at the slightly higher rate.

Of course, with electric heat it's kind of academic. My winter usage gets over 4000 kWh/mo. Not anymore, starting this weekend.


----------



## chken (Nov 19, 2014)

bcarton said:


> That rate is for Liberty Utilities, and it includes both the delivery cost and the energy service cost. The energy cost alone just shot up 47% to $.15487, and the delivery charge (over 250 kWh) adds up to $.07707. I expect to fully recover the cost of a used, installed pellet stove in one season.


I included my delivery charge in the 15.3 cents per kWh. Our delivery rate is about the same, 7 cents per kWh, and our electricity cost went from 7 cents per kWh last year to 8, so we're at 15. I can't imagine all the screaming here in Maine if our utility went from 7 cents to 15 cents just for the electricity.


----------



## chken (Nov 19, 2014)

TimfromMA said:


> $0.24 per kW in MA if you use over 500kwH per month. Last month we used 502kwH...grrrrrrrr.


I would agree with bcarton. Typically, like taxes, you pay the higher rate on the incremental amount. So, you pay the lower rate for the amount below 500kwh, and you pay the higher 24cent rate on the incremental 2 kWh.


----------



## Bridgeman (Nov 20, 2014)

The utilities in NH have almost complete control over pricing and policy. The next thing for them is a massive power line through the middle of the state to send cheap power to southern New England  from Canada with no real benefit to us. The 400 old fools that run the state are completely clueless. There is a little more competition on the supply side but the profit is on the distribution side of the bill. NH is an exporter of electric power and yet we have the some of the highes prices in the country.  The utilities lobby in New Hampshire is the most powerful and influential political organization in our state funded by laws they have written.


----------



## Doug Doty (Nov 20, 2014)

Wow I am in Indiana and our rate per. kwh goes down with volume usedfrom .12 to as low as the .06 range but typically with all the fees and such added we average out to an all up .11 to .12 per kwh so if I can keep my stove running as sole heat source I have a chance of recovering the stove cost in 1.5 to 2  years at best. But in the mean time the room where my family spends the majority of all our time is WARM  so there is big intangible benefits.


----------



## jackiec (Nov 20, 2014)

Have been using Okies since 2008.  Paid $355 for Douglas Firs a month ago. Have used 15 bags and do not notice any extra heat. Ash is much less but the scraping is brutally more difficult. I feel we are using more pellets, not less, in our Santa Fe insert, which has performed fabulously. 1100 sf ranch.


----------



## mepellet (Nov 20, 2014)

jackiec said:


> Have been using Okies since 2008.  Paid $355 for Douglas Firs a month ago. Have used 15 bags and do not notice any extra heat. Ash is much less but the scraping is brutally more difficult. I feel we are using more pellets, not less, in our Santa Fe insert, which has performed fabulously. 1100 sf ranch.


Interesting. Wonder what others will report....


----------



## TimfromMA (Nov 20, 2014)

Im only on my 3rd bag of DF and the house is noticeably warmer. I haven't burned  enough to get an accurate assessment of ash content.


----------



## bcarton (Nov 20, 2014)

I have 10 bags of Okanagan Gold in the garage, and I'll go pick up some of the Douglas Fir this weekend. Hopefully the stove will get installed this weekend, too!


----------



## N00bHeater (Nov 21, 2014)

I'm in hampstead, east coast seems to sell out but they do keep getting deliveries of the NEWP (check the website as needed for what they have in stock). I have a ton of NEWP plus picked up some bags of the Oak Gold and will try them out. Maybe the next week try out DFs. The NEWP seem very ashy in my XXV and filled up the bin with a week. I'm trying out the Oak Golds, picked up a few bags to test them out and will burn for a week and see. Glass stayed relatively clean with the NEWP and doing well with Oak Gold.


----------



## TimfromMA (Nov 21, 2014)

My St Croix ash pan is very small. 

6" wide x 12" long x 4" deep.

Even with DF, I have to empty that sucker every 2 - 3 bags.


----------



## N00bHeater (Nov 21, 2014)

wow guess I shouldn't complain 

I had a napolean NPS40 at a different house with a huge bin, I could go 2-3 weeks without emptying....though that stove had other issues like caked burn pot.


----------



## mepellet (Nov 21, 2014)

TimfromMA said:


> My St Croix ash pan is very small.
> 
> 6" wide x 12" long x 4" deep.
> 
> Even with DF, I have to empty that sucker every 2 - 3 bags.


Sounds like a lot of ash.... Not sure of the dimensions of my ash pan but I'd guess it's 12" x 6" x 8". And I only have to empty it after every ton even with cheap box store pellets.  If my dimensions are accurate that would mean my ash pan is twice the size of yours and therefore would only have to empty it every 25 bags if it were in my stove. So hearing that even with the df pellets you have to empty every 4 bags seems like excessive ash.??


----------



## TimfromMA (Nov 21, 2014)

mepellet said:


> Sounds like a lot of ash.... Not sure of the dimensions of my ash pan but I'd guess it's 12" x 6" x 8". And I only have to empty it after every ton even with cheap box store pellets.  If my dimensions are accurate that would mean my ash pan is twice the size of yours and therefore would only have to empty it every 25 bags if it were in my stove. So hearing that even with the df pellets you have to empty every 4 bags seems like excessive ash.??


 
Poor choice of words on my part.

The ash in my pan accumulates in 2 piles underneath and on either side of the burnpot. When those piles get near the top of the pan, I empty it. The pan isn't close to being "full".


----------



## mepellet (Nov 21, 2014)

TimfromMA said:


> Poor choice of words on my part.
> 
> The ash in my pan accumulates in 2 piles underneath and on either side of the burnpot. When those piles get near the top of the pan, I empty it. The pan isn't close to being "full".


OK. Got ya. Sounds better!


----------



## chken (Nov 21, 2014)

jackiec said:


> Have been using Okies since 2008.  Paid $355 for Douglas Firs a month ago. Have used 15 bags and do not notice any extra heat. Ash is much less but the scraping is brutally more difficult. I feel we are using more pellets, not less, in our Santa Fe insert, which has performed fabulously. 1100 sf ranch.


As a whole, Okanagans are all about the same in regards to dry BTUs. Okie DF is rated at 9000btu, Platinum is 8900 and Gold is also 8900, so one shouldn't expect any discernible difference. The big difference should be in ash residue. The DF is rated at 0.10%, and the Plats are 0.29% and the Gold 0.21%. Having said that, basically anything under 0.3% is darn good.

I think when you go to a new variety of pellet, and are burning a whole bunch, or testing a bunch, you really need to consider tweaking your air settings in order for them to burn properly.


----------



## chken (Nov 21, 2014)

TimfromMA said:


> Poor choice of words on my part.
> 
> The ash in my pan accumulates in 2 piles underneath and on either side of the burnpot. When those piles get near the top of the pan, I empty it. The pan isn't close to being "full".


I thought Piazzettas had teacups for ash pans! Anyhow, burning DF Blazers, I can easily go 10 bags even with the teacup-sized pan before having to empty it. Mostly I do it out of routine rather than need. The PowerSmith only needs 5 secs to run around the ash pan.


----------



## timberjack (Jan 19, 2016)

JohnD said:


> I just talked to a gentleman at East Coast Lumber in Hampstead, NH. I was going to order 2 tons of New England Wood Pellets and 2 tons od Okanagan Golds. The NEWP's were $279/ton and Okanagan Gold's were $299.... Both were sold out today. The gentleman at East Coast said that 3 tons of Okanagan Douglas Firs would last as long as 4 tons of the other two.... So he said the $375/ton would average out because of the quality of the pellet. I've had bad luck in the past with other so called super premium pellets....Anyone have an opinion, preferably based on experience with any or all of these brands? Thanks....


Hi, just joined to answer this question even though it's a year old. I ran into it on a hit from a google search for Okanagan Fir, thought my experience might help someone. 
I have burned all three brands in my hard to clean. builds up ash too quickly but throws good heat Englander multi-fuel stove. The Okanagan Fir was the hottest pellet I've ever burned and consistently so over three seasons. Also almost the priciest at $360/ton from my local supplier. I've burned over six tons at this point - so more than a small trial.
As I mentioned my stove is a bit maddening in the cleaning department so I've searched through about twenty brands and blends for a pellet that is very low ash and reduces constant vacuuming and upkeep. The Fir is far and away the best I've tried. It cuts my need to clean by a factor of five from a lot of what I consider run of the mill pellets. Very low ash, very little burn pot build up. It has the highest tested BTU/lb I've run across save one other I'm testing now. Unfortunately that one is a ridiculous (IMO) $400/ton at a different dealer. I couldn't resist a quick two bag test though. 
The other two pellets mentioned - NEWP and Ok Gold I found to be good to very good although again I only ran two bags of the NEWP so far. Gold I ran a ten bag trial on last year and found them almost as hot as the Fir but considerably ashier for me in the Englander.


----------



## alternativeheat (Jan 19, 2016)

timberjack said:


> Hi, just joined to answer this question even though it's a year old. I ran into it on a hit from a google search for Okanagan Fir, thought my experience might help someone.
> I have burned all three brands in my hard to clean. builds up ash too quickly but throws good heat Englander multi-fuel stove. The Okanagan Fir was the hottest pellet I've ever burned and consistently so over three seasons. Also almost the priciest at $360/ton from my local supplier. I've burned over six tons at this point - so more than a small trial.
> As I mentioned my stove is a bit maddening in the cleaning department so I've searched through about twenty brands and blends for a pellet that is very low ash and reduces constant vacuuming and upkeep. The Fir is far and away the best I've tried. It cuts my need to clean by a factor of five from a lot of what I consider run of the mill pellets. Very low ash, very little burn pot build up. It has the highest tested BTU/lb I've run across save one other I'm testing now. Unfortunately that one is a ridiculous (IMO) $400/ton at a different dealer. I couldn't resist a quick two bag test though.
> The other two pellets mentioned - NEWP and Ok Gold I found to be good to very good although again I only ran two bags of the NEWP so far. Gold I ran a ten bag trial on last year and found them almost as hot as the Fir but considerably ashier for me in the Englander.


Most Douglas fir pellets are similar, as are American Wood Fiber Pure White Pine at half the cost more or less ( if they ever come around again). I used to tout the Okanagan DF too but expense went crazy on them. And even if I can't get some of the cleanest burning pellets, my stove is easy enough to clean and the difference in cost is worth saving on my retirement income.


----------



## timberjack (Jan 19, 2016)

alternativeheat said:


> Most Douglas fir pellets are similar, as are American Wood Fiber Pure White Pine at half the cost more or less ( if they ever come around again). I used to tout the Okanagan DF too but expense went crazy on them. And even if I can't get some of the cleanest burning pellets, my stove is easy enough to clean and the difference in cost is worth saving on my retirement income.


Actually, AWF Pure White Pine is what I'm trying right no w in the two bag trial that I mentioned in my earlier post. Where I bought them however they were not half the cost, in fact they were even higher! I mentioned $400/ton - that was them. Wherever you got them at half the cost I'd like to know. So far they seem like a hot pellet to me. Jury is still out on ash, I'm still on my first bag. I'll be checking tomorrow. By the way - I'm not touting The Okanagan Fir, simply trying to report my findings. Maybe it sounded too enthusiastic but they're the only Doug Fir pellet I've managed to find here on the east coast and they seemed great to me although pricey.


----------



## alternativeheat (Jan 19, 2016)

timberjack said:


> Actually, AWF Pure White Pine is what I'm trying right no w in the two bag trial that I mentioned in my earlier post. Where I bought them however they were not half the cost, in fact they were even higher! I mentioned $400/ton - that was them. Wherever you got them at half the cost I'd like to know. So far they seem like a hot pellet to me. Jury is still out on ash, I'm still on my first bag. I'll be checking tomorrow. By the way - I'm not touting The Okanagan Fir, simply trying to report my findings. Maybe it sounded too enthusiastic but they're the only Doug Fir pellet I've managed to find here on the east coast and they seemed great to me although pricey.



A few of us on here last year ran into AWFPWP at HD and at TSC and got several batches before they dried up never to be seen again. They were the same price as the junk pellets they sell. I think you will find both pot deposits and ash withing acceptable limits with those pellets.

You weren't over enthusiastic at all, and also forgive the manners : Welcome to the forum !!

No I've burned a bunch of the Oakie DF, they were good when I'd buy my winters stocks worth on a summer pre sale. They're a great pellet. I was just saying it's not just Okanagan but most DF's are like that. Blazer is another.


----------



## timberjack (Jan 19, 2016)

alternativeheat said:


> Most Douglas fir pellets are similar, as are American Wood Fiber Pure White Pine at half the cost more or less ( if they ever come around again). I used to tout the Okanagan DF too but expense went crazy on them. And even if I can't get some of the cleanest burning pellets, my stove is easy enough to clean and the difference in cost is worth saving on my retirement income.


Actually, AWF Pure White Pine is what I'm trying right no w in the two bag trial that I mentioned in my earlier post. Where I bought them however they were not half the cost, in fact they were even higher! I mentioned $400/ton - that was them. Wherever you got them at half the cost I'd like to know. So far they seem like a hot pellet to me. Jury is still out on ash, I'm still on my first bag. I'll be checking tomorrow. By the way - I'm not touting The Okanagan Fir, simply trying to report my findings. Maybe it sounded too enthusiastic but they're the only Doug Fir pellet I've managed to find here on the east coast and they seemed great to me although pricey.


alternativeheat said:


> A few of us on here last year ran into AWFPWP at HD and at TSC and got several batches before they dried up never to be seen again. They were the same price as the junk pellets they sell. I think you will find both pot deposits and ash withing acceptable limits with those pellets.
> 
> You weren't over enthusiastic at all, and also forgive the manners : Welcome to the forum !!
> 
> No I've burned a bunch of the Oakie DF, they were good when I'd buy my winters stocks worth on a summer pre sale. They're a great pellet. I was just saying it's not just Okanagan but most DF's are like that. Blazer is another.


Thanks for the welcome and the info on WFPWP and Blazers. I'll look for the Blazers; any idea where to find them? As I said earlier I'm trying the AWFPWP pellets right now and so far agree with you: seems like pot deposits and ash are within acceptable limits and they seem like a good hot pellet. Just not worth $400 a ton; I don't know what would be. If they could be had for junk pellet prices I'd probably lay in a good store.


----------



## alternativeheat (Jan 19, 2016)

Well timberjack, I just keep my eyes open, when something shows up I try it out. Not sure where they might actually stock Blazers but mostly they just show up like the AWFPWP did.

No pellet on the planet is worth $400 a ton IMO.


----------



## timberjack (Jan 19, 2016)

alternativeheat said:


> Well timberjack, I just keep my eyes open, when something shows up I try it out. Not sure where they might actually stock Blazers but mostly they just show up like the AWFPWP did.
> 
> No pellet on the planet is worth $400 a ton IMO.


Not this year nor any one soon I hope. And $360 for Okanagan Fir is pretty hard to swallow too. Especially with fossil fuel at a current low.Which won't last of course but while it does my calculations put BTU/$ almost even for propane (my fossil fuel) vs. Okanagan Fir @ $360/ton. And I only have to clean my furnace once a season unlike my stove. I need to find a hot, clean pellet at a reasonable price. Trucking doug fir wood waste across the continent adds too much to the cost to be feasible on the east coast. That's why I had enough interest in a hot clean pellet made from Eastern White Pine such as AWF PWP. I've burned enough EWP over the years in split log and sawmill waste form such as slabs and edgings (I ran sawmills for years and years) to know how hot and clean burning it is. Why it can't be bought more cheaply in New England is puzzling - we mill a LOT of white pine. I think I'll contact American Wood Fiber for a list of their dealers. Their online search didn't yield much except locations to buy their pet bedding.


----------



## Spupilup (Jan 19, 2016)

This is our first year burning pellets after 28 years of using either a Waterford, Vermont Casting or Hearthstone woodstove to heat our 175 year old home.  We went a different route in choosing our pellet stove.  Rather than use a stove that was reliant on electricity we went with a Wiseway gravity feed pellet stove.

The Wiseway, a product from Oregon was designed using DF pellets.  The manufacturer recommends using DF pellets for best results.  We bought a couple of tons of the Okie DF's and are burning a bag as I'm typing this.  

I agree the cost of DF is high but compared to our alternative, electric, it's a price I can bear.  However, we also bought a few tons of Okie Platinum spruce pellets.  We have been even more pleased with their performance.  

Speaking to how much longer the DF's last relative to other pellets, all we can say is the Platinums seem to last every bit as long.  We get about 16-18 hours out of a 40 pound bag of Platinums, burning the stove at between 400-500 degrees   Burning the DF's the temperatures tend to stay between 450-550 degrees.   So, with the DF's we get a little more heat, comfortable burn rates and a little less ash.

Next year we'll likely go with more Platinums and maybe one ton of DF's for the most brutally cold nights.


----------

