# IGNITERS



## wil lanfear (Sep 19, 2009)

I found this the other day, thought I would share the info for those that may have an interest.

http://www.heatersplus.com/products/cartridg.htm

I also found this calculator to help determine what the igniter wattage is of a particular stove.

http://www.the12volt.com/ohm/page2.asp

If you can determine the diameter, the length of the igniter, and the wattage, IMHO, the costs of igniters can be much less.


ED*IT: *This is another link to help determine what igniter is needed.

http://www.chromalox.com/productcat...aters/Cartridge/CIR/model-details.aspx?m=3253


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## Vermont-XXV (Sep 20, 2009)

Wil,

It's very kind of you to provide such detailed and complete information on igniters.  I think everyone has to deal with replacement and it would appear that a lot of the members of the forum would like to have an affordable replacement on hand.  Especially because they won't die until it's 20 below.  

I've been watching to see who would reply to your post (of around noon today) and thought I ought to to reply, before the post goes off the first page.

I can't make heads or tails out of the information.  I mean -  I don't understand any of it.  We all have different talents - none of mine seem to apply here. 

Can you tell me what a Harman XXV manufactured Feb 2009 would need?  just for example   ha ha ha 

clifford in Ferrisburgh


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## wil lanfear (Sep 20, 2009)

> Can you tell me what a Harman XXV manufactured Feb 2009 would need?  just for example ha ha ha
> 
> clifford in Ferrisburgh


 I'm guessing that it is 300 watt heater but,...... you need to measure the diameter and the length. In order to confirm my thoughts, have someone measure the voltage at the stove outlet, measure the current of the heater with a amp probe or measure the resistance of the igniter. Now, with any two values, using the calculator, plug the numbers in, this will determine the wattage of your igniter. Example: 120 volts at outlet, 50 ohm resistance value at the igniter, these values calculate the igniter to be 288 watts or a 300 watt heater. *MAYBE*, your dealer could tell you the wattage of your igniter, maybe he can tell you the resistance value of a new igniter.


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## slls (Sep 20, 2009)

You need to buy from a stove supplier, my igniter is not straight, it is a loop, nothing straight about it.


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## Vermont-XXV (Sep 20, 2009)

Thank you for the information.

I think I can figure it out now. 

 I'm surprised (but maybe not) at the cost savings possible.

35 Degrees last night.    Just in time.

clifford


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## AndrewChurchill (Sep 21, 2009)

Wil,

Have you determined which one is needed for our PB105s?

Andy


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## wil lanfear (Sep 21, 2009)

Andrew Churchill said:
			
		

> Wil,
> 
> Have you determined which one is needed for our PB105s?
> 
> Andy


The OEM igniter is a 300 watt heater, Chromalox # CIR 20301. I see on the Harman web site, in the owners manual,  they have changed the ignition design, page 34 and 37. New design consists of a 450 watt igniter with a igniter air pump. Very interesting.

http://www.harmanstoves.com/doc/pb105_R5.pdf


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## AndrewChurchill (Sep 21, 2009)

I wonder if we can upgrade our boilers with the new ignitor design?  I'm planning on running my boiler in the manual mode this winter due to the inconsistentency of the auto start mode.


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## wil lanfear (Sep 21, 2009)

I'm going to talk to my dealer at some point, maybe this week, to ask if a kit is going to be available and the costs involved.


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## AndrewChurchill (Sep 21, 2009)

Sweet.  Keep me posted please.  BTW who is your dealer again?


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## wil lanfear (Sep 21, 2009)

The Stove Depot in Rutland.


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## Former Farmer (Dec 6, 2009)

Wil,

Did you find out anything from your dealer about the igniter upgrade?  Is the design that much better than the old?


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## wil lanfear (Dec 7, 2009)

Former Farmer said:
			
		

> Wil,
> 
> Did you find out anything from your dealer about the igniter upgrade?  Is the design that much better than the old?


 I just got back from my dealer, he tells me Harman told him parts would be here 12/23. I'm thinking it will be better, the igniter is not located under the surface of the burn pot, instead it is located so the hot air from the igniter is forced against the *pellets* to ignite them. Only time will tell after this is installed.


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## AndrewChurchill (Dec 7, 2009)

Wil,

What is being upgraded, just the ignitor or part of the burn pot?

Thanks,
Andy


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## wil lanfear (Dec 7, 2009)

Andrew Churchill said:
			
		

> Wil,
> 
> What is being upgraded, just the ignitor or part of the burn pot?
> 
> ...


 Andy,
It is a Pressure Ignition Kit for the PB105, depending what vintage boiler you have depends on what will come in the kit. Mine is an older one so my kit will have to have a newer feeder weldment so the igniter has a nut to thread into. The kit comes with everything needed to include the air pump, 10 RPM feeder, over fire air box, 450 watt air igniter, etc. The link below shows the parts for the pressure ignition system. (pg 33-34)

http://www.hearthnhome.com/downloads/installManuals/PB105.pdf


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## AndrewChurchill (Dec 7, 2009)

Thanks for the info!

My boiler serial number is 00201 and I think it was assembled in 2006.

How much is the kit?


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## wil lanfear (Dec 7, 2009)

Andrew Churchill said:
			
		

> Thanks for the info!
> 
> My boiler serial number is 00201 and I think it was assembled in 2006.
> 
> How much is the kit?


 My boiler serial number is 00223, assembled 2006 also. I don't know what the cost of the kit is, mine will be installed under the warranty because of the burnpot bubble issue.


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## AndrewChurchill (Dec 7, 2009)

I guess I'll have to talk to my dealer.  My second burn pot is starting to bubble as well.  Thanks for the info.


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## Bill Bennion (Dec 8, 2009)

[del][/del]


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## Bill Bennion (Dec 8, 2009)

Andrew,  Did you change your board already?  I am on the third burn pot and just got the new rev board, my pb105 was built in 06 and is serial # 00309.  I was told by Harman that there was not an upgrade kit for the new igniter. I asked the question thru the Harman web site


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## AndrewChurchill (Dec 8, 2009)

I don't have the new board yet.  It looks like Wil is getting an upgrade kit and the boiler he has is only a month or two newer than mine.  You might want to talk to your dealer and tell them what you've learned on this message board.


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## stephenmoore (Dec 15, 2009)

Hey Guys,
 curious to see how the igniter upgrade goes. I have burned through my first one already this year, just waiting for it to be cold enough to run manual mode all the time. I think this is 9 or 10 igniters in three heating seasons. One burn pot bubbled and cracked too. Am I right in thinking the new igniters would be covererd by warranty ? Anyone seen what serial #'s are eligible ?


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## Bill Bennion (Dec 15, 2009)

When I asked Harman, I was told there was not a conversion for the new igniter.  Maybe it is time to ask again, I just changed another igniter.


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## AndrewChurchill (Dec 15, 2009)

Bill,

Wil clearly states there is a conversion kit for the PB 105.  I would talk to your dealer and give him this information.




			
				wil said:
			
		

> Andrew Churchill said:
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## stephenmoore (Dec 16, 2009)

wil said:
			
		

> Andrew Churchill said:
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Hello wil,
Just wondering what your burnpot issue is ? Is it the hump/bubble at the top ? I have had one do that too.  I called my dealer today to request info on a possible igniter upgrade/replacement. Please let me know how you make out. I have # 306 made in Dec. 2006


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## wil lanfear (Dec 16, 2009)

stephenmoore said:
			
		

> wil said:
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 It is the bubble that forms on the surface of the burnpot, above the igniter location. The parts for the retro fit are suppose to be at my dealer on 12/23, installation as soon as they are here.


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## Wayne64SS (Dec 16, 2009)

I called my dealer about this today after reading this thread. He hadn't heard of it yet, but stated in the summer they released a new design of igniter (still under the burn pot) which is a 15 fin 450 watt design.

I am trying to talk him into the pressure igniter though. He said he was going to call Harman and call me back. I'll keep everyone posted.


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## wil lanfear (Dec 16, 2009)

Wayne64SS said:
			
		

> I called my dealer about this today after reading this thread. He hadn't heard of it yet, but stated in the summer they released a new design of igniter (still under the burn pot) which is a 15 fin 450 watt design.
> 
> I am trying to talk him into the pressure igniter though. He said he was going to call Harman and call me back. I'll keep everyone posted.


Have you had the issue of the bubble forming on surface of the burnpot, *not all boilers are doing this*? I have a friend that purchased one not to long after I got mine, he hasn't had the issue, I've had 5 burnpots do this. I don't think Harman really knows why some are doing it and some aren't. The Harman factory tech that looked at mine thought that the old style board was keeping the igniter on way to long after the boiler fired so it was replaced with a new board with a different program which did not solve the burnpot issue, it did solve the issue with the combustion blower running all the time though. I have the new 15 fin igniter installed, it was done the last time the burnpot was replaced, the bubble still forms with this igniter.


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## Wayne64SS (Dec 17, 2009)

Wil, 

I have no bubble I don't think.. Does anyone have a pic so I can see what it looks like?

Also I just got a call back from my Dealer. Mark is a good guy! He's going to come out and put in the updated 15fin 450watt ignitor that i mentioned in my above post, and if that still doesn't work they will put in the kit for pressure ignition. The pressure ignition unit requires a change of some feed unit parts or assembly which they weren't willing to warranty without trying this first. My dealer confirmed existence of said parts obv.


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## wil lanfear (Dec 17, 2009)

Wayne64SS said:
			
		

> Wil,
> 
> I have no bubble I don't think.. Does anyone have a pic so I can see what it looks like?
> 
> Also I just got a call back from my Dealer. Mark is a good guy! He's going to come out and put in the updated 15fin 450watt ignitor that i mentioned in my above post, and if that still doesn't work they will put in the kit for pressure ignition. The pressure ignition unit requires a change of some feed unit parts or assembly which they weren't willing to warranty without trying this first. My dealer confirmed existence of said parts obv.


 If your burnpot had a bubble forming above the igniter location, it would be noticed when you scraped the burnpot. Why does the dealer think that the igniter needs to be changed? Are you having an issue with ignition? The 15 fin igniter that was installed in my boiler was not a 450 watt igniter, I think it was stamped 306 watt.


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## Wayne64SS (Dec 17, 2009)

5 blinker!


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## wil lanfear (Dec 17, 2009)

Wayne64SS said:
			
		

> 5 blinker!


 If you haven't already, make sure the area where the igniter is located has been cleaned, ash build up will prevent the igniter from igniting the pellets. Before the dealer installs the new igniter, look at the igniter to see if in fact it has a 450 watt stamp on it, please let us know.


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## Wayne64SS (Dec 17, 2009)

I clean the burn pot weekly or approx every 9 bags. this process for me includes removing the ignitor cover and cleaning the are inside of ash. I will definitely keep everyone posted. My dealer has been awesome so far, the guy even lets me keep a spare brand new ignitor on hand in case of emergencies.  I don't like the manual mode and refuse to use it.


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## stephenmoore (Dec 19, 2009)

Hey Wayne, 
curious as to why you are not a fan of the manual mode on the 105. After my igniter problems I started switching to it when the weather up here gets real cold. I haven't had any troubles with overheating and my pellet consumption seems to be about the same. Although it seems a little backwards to use something that expensive in manual mode...


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## Pellet1 (Dec 20, 2009)

Hey Wil:

Nice info. I am looking for an element for my Whitfield insert. It is a 500W-3/8" dia and about 5.5" long. The closest I can find at Chromalox is # 280065 or possibly 140521. The Whitfield ignitor has a threaded head which can probably be removed and inserted on the new element. Don't know.
However, it looks like this company only deals in quantity purchases. Can you help clarify that??   I would much sooner pay 1/3 of the cost of an OEM ignitor.


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## wil lanfear (Dec 20, 2009)

Pellet1 said:
			
		

> Hey Wil:
> 
> Nice info. I am looking for an element for my Whitfield insert. It is a 500W-3/8" dia and about 5.5" long. The closest I can find at Chromalox is # 280065 or possibly 140521. The Whitfield ignitor has a threaded head which can probably be removed and inserted on the new element. Don't know.
> However, it looks like this company only deals in quantity purchases. Can you help clarify that??   I would much sooner pay 1/3 of the cost of an OEM ignitor.


I purchased a Chromalox igniter from these folks but the one I ordered is 3/8" dia., 3 " long, 500 watt. I don't see a 500 watt, 5.5" long one available, I see a 6" one though. You might give them a call, maybe they could come up with one for you. 

http://www.heatersplus.com/products/cartridg.htm


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## AndrewChurchill (Dec 20, 2009)

Wil,

Did you add fins to the igniter you bought from them?  Also, how is it working compared to the OEM igniter?

Andy


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## wil lanfear (Dec 20, 2009)

Andrew Churchill said:
			
		

> Wil,
> 
> Did you add fins to the igniter you bought from them?  Also, how is it working compared to the OEM igniter?
> 
> Andy


Andy,
Fins need to be added to this igniter, I haven't yet, probably will never use it when the new ignition system is installed in my boiler.
Wil


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## Pellet1 (Dec 20, 2009)

wil said:
			
		

> Pellet1 said:
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Yes, you are correct--The second one I listed is a 400W element. Although, I took the wattage off the one I removed from the stove, and it is a 500W one, however, all the ones listed on ebay are 400W,which they say is the proper one.
So they will accept orders for single elements.  Thanks   Now I wonder how much they will soak me to ship to NS, Canada.


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## stephenmoore (Dec 22, 2009)

Hey Wil,
Did replacing your motherboard solve the igniters failing problem, assuming you had it too. And if so was this covered on warranty ?


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## wil lanfear (Dec 22, 2009)

stephenmoore said:
			
		

> Hey Wil,
> Did replacing your motherboard solve the igniters failing problem, assuming you had it too. And if so was this covered on warranty ?


 The controller was replaced under the warranty, the thinking was that the older CB kept the igniter on to long after the pellets ignited which caused a bubble to form on the surface of the burnpot, bubble still formed with updated CB. I've replaced the igniter 2 times, once with the first burnpot, the second with the present burnpot, this is the 15 fin igniter, both under the warranty.


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## stephenmoore (Dec 22, 2009)

So do you think your igniter has been more reliable or lasted longer since the CB replacement ? I typically only get about three months from an igniter, although I got six from the last one.


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## wil lanfear (Dec 22, 2009)

I can't say I've had igniter issues, even though I've replaced two. The first was replaced because the wire insulation was missing, the second was the 15 fin like I mentioned, the thinking was, more fins to cool the igniter quicker. I'm now running dip switches #1 and # 2 in the off position, # 3 on. The burnpot only has pellets fed up to the igniter,* not covering the igniter* with the switches positioned as I've mentioned. This allows for quicker ignition, very little smoke, even from a cold start. I timed it once using the new programed CB, 31 sec. after ignition the igniter shut off, it took forever to shut off with the old CB.


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## stephenmoore (Dec 23, 2009)

wil said:
			
		

> I can't say I've had igniter issues, even though I've replaced two. The first was replaced because the wire insulation was missing, the second was the 15 fin like I mentioned, the thinking was, more fins to cool the igniter quicker. I'm now running dip switches #1 and # 2 in the off position, # 3 on. The burnpot only has pellets fed up to the igniter,* not covering the igniter* with the switches positioned as I've mentioned. This allows for quicker ignition, very little smoke, even from a cold start. I timed it once using the new programed CB, 31 sec. after ignition the igniter shut off, it took forever to shut off with the old CB.


Thanks Wil, I'm going to try the swith positions you mentioned and see if there is any difference. I hear the new igniter set up costs about $900 and is likely not a warrantied item. I'm hoping maybe I can get a new board and make the difference in the ignition system.


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## Centurion (Feb 6, 2010)

Is there any new info out there regarding the new ig system being covered by the warranty? Also Will, with your new dip switch settings are you getting dependable pellet ignition everytime?


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## wil lanfear (Feb 7, 2010)

Centurion said:
			
		

> Is there any new info out there regarding the new ig system being covered by the warranty? Also Will, with your new dip switch settings are you getting dependable pellet ignition everytime?


 The new pressure ignition was installed in my boiler, covered under the warranty, to see if this would prevent the bubble forming on the surface of the burnpot. With the new ignition system, the dip switches are set to # 1 off, # 2 on, # 3 on. I found when using the old style ignition system (finned cartridge), dip switch # 1 off, #2 off, #3 on, these settings would give me the quickest ignition with the least amount of smoke. *The finned cartridge igniter mounted within the burnpot doesn't need to have pellets completely covering the igniter for ignition.*


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## jtakeman (Feb 7, 2010)

Wil,

Do you have any pictures of the pressure igniter? Just wondering if it is simular to what Enviro is using in there multifuel stoves. 

Find any aftermarket pressure igniters?


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## wil lanfear (Feb 7, 2010)

Jay,
I'm quite sure the Harman igniter and air pump is the one in this link. Click on, in line heaters, click on in line process heater, part # HAC 00007(pg 3). The Harman igniter, the end of the igniter is threaded, 1/4" pipe thread to thread into a fitting. I believe Harman has Tempco thread the end of the igniter. I know the the Harman igniter is from Tempco, its stamped on the igniter. 

http://www.tempco.com/


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## AndrewChurchill (Feb 7, 2010)

Wil,

How do you like the new ignition system?


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## wil lanfear (Feb 7, 2010)

Andrew Churchill said:
			
		

> Wil,
> 
> How do you like the new ignition system?


 It is awesome, almost instant ignition. I'm a little concerned now that Jay has had an issue with a air pump failure. Humm, I'm thinking, maybe that a pressure switch of sort and the wiring should be changed so the igniter will not be powered until the air pump is creating pressure.


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## jtakeman (Feb 7, 2010)

wil said:
			
		

> Jay,
> I'm quite sure the Harman igniter and air pump is the one in this link. Click on, in line heaters, click on in line process heater, part # HAC 00007(pg 3). The Harman igniter, the end of the igniter is threaded, 1/4" pipe thread to thread into a fitting. I believe Harman has Tempco thread the end of the igniter. I know the the Harman igniter is from Tempco, its stamped on the igniter.
> 
> http://www.tempco.com/



Enviro is using Furnam's

http://www.farnam-custom.com/air_heaters/heatTorch075.php

I found one here for $145.00, Part number is HT075-400-120-1/8F-NF-X. No mods needed either.

http://www.abbeon.com/store/item.cfm?code=HT075

Save's me close to $75.00 and it is the exact same as OEM. Interesting markup on these pellet stove replacement parts. Funny how much you can save with a bit of digging on the internet. Still looking into the replacement air pump. Just FYI for some of the others.


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## AndrewChurchill (Feb 7, 2010)

Wil,

That sounds great.  It looks like we are going to sell this house and build another one.  I'm going to put in another PB105 and I'll make certain it has the new ignition system.  I was going to try to get this one replaced under warranty, but I dont' want to be in the middle of trying to get the igniter replaced and then have the house sell.


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## jtakeman (Feb 7, 2010)

wil said:
			
		

> Andrew Churchill said:
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That is a good idea. Probably not a hard upgrade either. I think the specs have a minimum pressure listed on my igniter. Something to think about. I like it!


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## Centurion (Feb 7, 2010)

Wil
Thanks for the information! I'm glad that they will be replacing this under warranty. I will hold back just a bit until this is proven to be the ultimate fix. My burn pot was just replaced in Dec and there is already some deflection above the igniter but I have plenty of time to wait to see if this new igniter system is the answer. I'm sure we all will be following this one closely.


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## Centurion (Feb 9, 2010)

How does one access the dip switches? From the control panel I noticed that to the upper left of the feed adjuster knob there is  access to a portion of the switch bank but it is covered with the plastic panel decal material. If I carefully remove that portion with an exacto knife will it expose the 3 switches that I need to change?


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## wil lanfear (Feb 9, 2010)

Centurion said:
			
		

> How does one access the dip switches? From the control panel I noticed that to the upper left of the feed adjuster knob there is  access to a portion of the switch bank but it is covered with the plastic panel decal material. If I carefully remove that portion with an exacto knife will it expose the 3 switches that I need to change?


 My boiler is probably an older vintage (mfg 12/06), has no decal, 4 switches are exposed in the CB mounting plate. If its just a decal, I would remove it to expose the switches for positioning.


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## Centurion (Apr 5, 2010)

Bill, how pleased were you with the LG pellets. Pellets .com had them for sale this winter at 199.00/ton. Really not a bad price. Thanks for your input.


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## Bill Bennion (Apr 6, 2010)

No problems with LG all winter, I still have about 2 tons left and it apears that we have reached the end of the heating season!


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## smwilliamson (Apr 7, 2010)

wil said:
			
		

> I found this the other day, thought I would share the info for those that may have an interest.
> 
> http://www.heatersplus.com/products/cartridg.htm
> 
> ...



p.4064-4065 in the Grainger Catalog, Process Heating Cartridge Heaters $21.20-$44.60 ...wicked easy to match up if you bring one in.


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## Bill Bennion (Apr 7, 2010)

Do these heaters come with fins?  or are the fins not really needed?


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## smwilliamson (Apr 7, 2010)

Bill Bennion said:
			
		

> Do these heaters come with fins?  or are the fins not realy needed?



Finned heaters in the Grainger Catalog are on p.4058-4059, completely different. I see you have a Harmon boiler...your cartridge heater rests inside a circular fin, yes? The igniter is removable and slips inside the fin assembly.


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## wil lanfear (Apr 7, 2010)

Bill Bennion said:
			
		

> Do these heaters come with fins?  or are the fins not really needed?


 IMHO, the fins are required, the ones in the link do not come with the fins installed but I would call to ask if they install the fins and ask the costs. I purchased one thinking I could remove the fins from the old igniter but the ignition system was replaced in my boiler before I had a chance to try to do this.


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## Bill Bennion (Apr 7, 2010)

smwilliamson said:
			
		

> Bill Bennion said:
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The fins appear to be pressed on the cartridge.


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## Jabberwocky (Apr 12, 2010)

Also had an ignitor go out, then it went out again, then learner of some re-engineering being done that will result in me getting a free ignitor and a new, redesigned  burnpot.

Now that they're one company sounds like Harmon and Quadrafire now share some of the same problems.

There's a chance that with this increased airflow burnpot that'll it'll save a little on electricity by demanding less of the ignitor.


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