# I can't believe this broke my splitter



## infinitymike (Mar 5, 2013)

This little crotch broke the shear bolts that hold the push block to the rail and the the push block rolled up and snapped the piston rod where it mounts to the clevis.


----------



## gmule (Mar 5, 2013)

Wow, that is some quality breakage.


----------



## MasterMech (Mar 5, 2013)

Jeez, Just can't catch a break with that machine eh Mike?


----------



## infinitymike (Mar 5, 2013)

MasterMech said:


> Jeez, Just can't catch a break with that machine eh Mike?


 
Its allready paid for itself.
I split 8 cord and my friend (half owner) has split 10 cord.
Long Island prices for 18 cord is between $150-$200= $2,700-$3,600
We paid $1,000.00 and dumped about $900 to fix the wedge, a seal kit and hydraulic fluid. 
Thats $900 each. On the low end I'm still ahead by $300

And like you have said its only metal and can be fixed. 
I have a friend who has a cousin who owns a machine shop and makes theses rods all the time.
Or I can buy it from a guy in Rochester for $170 plus shipping. Its a direct part from Prince hydraulics


----------



## MasterMech (Mar 5, 2013)

infinitymike said:


> Or I can buy it from a guy in Rochester for $170 plus shipping. Its a direct part from Prince hydraulics​


 That's the route I think I'd go.  Don't think you could get it made/repaired for under $200.


----------



## gzecc (Mar 5, 2013)

Wow, I just bought a new rod for my cylinder. I'm now glad I chose not to get the one with the reduced shaft diameter, where it attaches to the wedge. I decided on the full 2" diameter all the way to the end. F'n thing cost $400 bucks.


----------



## MasterMech (Mar 6, 2013)

Looks like it's been cracked/stressed for awhile. 

I think we might've found the source of the problem.....








infinitymike said:


> We paid $1,000.00 and dumped about $900 to fix the wedge, a seal kit and hydraulic fluid.​


 
Sure hope this thing stops costing you money soon Mike.  You're getting dangerously close to new Iron & Oak territory but then again, you have a log lift.


----------



## nate379 (Mar 6, 2013)

I'd probably just bust out some 6011 and make them stuck back together.  Don't have much to loose right?


----------



## salecker (Mar 6, 2013)

I agree,if it was mine the pieces would already be welded together,no real need to pull it apart either.Even though that's to late.get it welded and save the $$$


----------



## infinitymike (Mar 6, 2013)

gzecc said:


> Wow, I just bought a new rod for my cylinder. I'm now glad I chose not to get the one with the reduced shaft diameter, where it attaches to the wedge. I decided on the full 2" diameter all the way to the end. F'n thing cost $400 bucks.


 
Where did you buy the rod from? And why? I assume the other one broke. 
I questioned that also, why it is reduced at the threads.
What machine do you have?
Where I can get a clevis that receives a 2" thread?


----------



## infinitymike (Mar 6, 2013)

MasterMech said:


> View attachment 95989
> 
> 
> Looks like it's been cracked/stressed for awhile.
> ...


 
I saw that as well and I guess there was a hairline crack in the threads that was allowing water in and  rusting it?
I gotta look at that a little closer. That may not be the reason, but that may just be the actual thread.


----------



## infinitymike (Mar 6, 2013)

Thinking about it a little more there is a relatively if not totally new clevis on the end.
Which leads me to think that the old one broke and was replaced.
But if it broke, there most of been some major stress on it.
which in turn may have put some stress on the rod and weakened it or put some hairline cracks.


----------



## infinitymike (Mar 6, 2013)

Oh and MasterMechanic, Thanks for digging up that old picture.
It sure makes it look like a piece of junk.
We cleaned that puppy up and at least it looks better, even if it don't work right now


----------



## gzecc (Mar 6, 2013)

infinitymike said:


> Where did you buy the rod from? And why? I assume the other one broke.
> I questioned that also, why it is reduced at the threads.
> What machine do you have?
> Where I can get a clevis that receives a 2" thread?


I also bought my machine used, from a rental company. The rod was bent when I bought it. I got 6 mos out of it then had to put in seals again. I decided to rebuild the cylinder correctly. Mine is a strange size and its welded on. I now understand why the rental place sold it. 5" cylinder with 2" rod. I've put $900 just in parts into mine. I comes down to abuse, from people who are using these things (and don't own them). A little issue becomes a very big one eventually if it doesn't get addressed when your dealing with these forces.
If I were you, I would try to insert the whole width of the rod into the connection where it attaches to the wedge. Obviously easier said than done. This will eliminate a weak point. A new rod is a waste of money for you.


----------



## lukem (Mar 6, 2013)

Judging by the discoloration at the break point, that thing has been gimping along for a while.  At least it broke after the 18 cord and not before.


----------



## infinitymike (Mar 6, 2013)

MasterMech said:


> That's the route I think I'd go.  Don't think you could get it made/repaired for under $200.



You are correct. I called a few guys first before I called my friends cousin. Only one would make it and he wants $500. 
I can buy the whole cylinder for that much. 

My friends cousin said for it'd be better to buy it for $170 but if there was a problem he'd help us out. 
Then he said that he will cut the broken end smooth and bore a threaded hole into the rod and put a threaded stud on it for $50. 

I'm going that route for now.


----------



## gzecc (Mar 6, 2013)

infinitymike said:


> You are correct. I called a few guys first before I called my friends cousin. Only one would make it and he wants $500.
> I can buy the whole cylinder for that much.
> 
> My friends cousin said for it'd be better to buy it for $170 but if there was a problem he'd help us out.
> ...


 I can't imagine it. Lets see it when its done.


----------



## MasterMech (Mar 6, 2013)

infinitymike said:


> Oh and MasterMechanic, Thanks for digging up that old picture.
> It sure makes it look like a piece of junk.
> We cleaned that puppy up and at least it looks better, even if it don't work right now


 
The idea was to show that since the push plate guides were poorly repaired/constructed prior to you buying it, there obviously had been some serious side loads applied to the connection where the push plate attaches to the rod. 

I like the threaded stud solution, great price on that work too.


----------



## Jags (Mar 6, 2013)

Yes, the stud option sounds like the way I would go as well.

Part of the problem with that push plate is the design.  With the bolts going through the sides - you are dealing with shear strength of the bolts.  IF the bolts were from top down, you would be dealing with tensile strength (not shear).  Tensile is usually far stronger.  Whatever you do, make sure the replacement bolts are of a high grade and not standard bolts.  I would consider grade 9 as to avoid this problem in the future.


----------



## infinitymike (Mar 6, 2013)

Jags said:


> Yes, the stud option sounds like the way I would go as well.
> 
> Part of the problem with that push plate is the design. With the bolts going through the sides - you are dealing with shear strength of the bolts. IF the bolts were from top down, you would be dealing with tensile strength (not shear). Tensile is usually far stronger. Whatever you do, make sure the replacement bolts are of a high grade and not standard bolts. I would consider grade 9 as to avoid this problem in the future.


 
This the repair I made to the push plate when I first bought it. There is no way to do a vertical bolt. I will try to find a #9 bolt


----------



## infinitymike (Mar 6, 2013)

The reason they kept breaking the angle guides was they were only able to get a weld on the outside.
I took a flat plate and welded it on the outside and inside of the base plate.
Then made new guide clips and wear pads and bolted it.


----------



## Jags (Mar 6, 2013)

infinitymike said:


> This the repair I made to the push plate when I first bought it. There is no way to do a vertical bolt. I will try to find a #9 bolt


 
Heck - you already had grade 8 in there.  Grade 9 might not be the cure-all.  Yeah - the design is even seen on some production models, but I prefer the other method.  Your pusher is also quite tall.  That is a leverage disadvantage.  Ever consider cutting it down a bit?


----------



## infinitymike (Mar 6, 2013)

Jags said:


> Heck - you already had grade 8 in there. Grade 9 might not be the cure-all. Yeah - the design is even seen on some production models, but I prefer the other method. Your pusher is also quite tall. That is a leverage disadvantage. Ever consider cutting it down a bit?


 
The clevis is in the center of the push block.
I don't think that there is a lot of leverage.


----------



## 711mhw (Mar 6, 2013)

infinitymike said:


> This little crotch broke the shear bolts that hold the push block to the rail and the the push block rolled up and snapped the piston rod where it mounts to the clevis.


 
A little crotch has given all of us trouble now and then Mike.
That's one that you should have left alone.


----------



## gzecc (Mar 6, 2013)

711mhw said:


> A little crotch has given all of us trouble now and then Mike.
> That's one that you should have left alone.


 At the very least a crotch should be split from below. Up towards the top of the tree. Not down towards the base.


----------



## infinitymike (Mar 6, 2013)

Let me clear this up. 
I DID NOT BREAK IT THIS TIME. 
My friend/co-owner broke it. 
That's his back yard and all his wood. 

I still can't believe that us what broke it. 
For all I know, the bolts sheared with out him knowing
And then tried to split that little crotch. 

Who knows, who cares. 
We are getting it fixed and moving on.


----------



## ScotO (Mar 7, 2013)

I'll throw my two cents in FWIW.  I've found that the cylinders that have the wedge attached to them (instead of a flat plate) don't get exposed to the sideways and twisting stresses as badly.  Have you considered making a wedge to attach to your ram instead of the flat push plate, and putting the plate on the stationary end of the splitter?

Also, have you considered shortening the ram up by an inch or two and reusing it?  Have it machined to re-install the clevis and be done with it......not sure how your specific machine limits the retraction, just throwing an idea to help you save a little money.....


----------



## infinitymike (Mar 7, 2013)

Scott.  
Thanks for the possible considerations. 
We are getting it fixed for $50. 
I think modifying it to have the wedge and push block reverse would be very costly. 
There was a hairline crack where the wedge was mounted and I tore that off over the summer!
I had a professional weld it back on and add some structural web stiffners. 

Never using any other type of splitter, I really like the way this operates. 
I've seen videos of the ram wedge type and sometimes it has to cycle all the way back to push a split off that didn't fully split. 
With mine if it doesn't fully split I just drop another piece in and let that push the other one all the way through. 

BTW. How'd did the living room turn out? 
Got a link to the completed project?


----------



## saladdin (Mar 7, 2013)

I love the last picture of you pointing. Looks like you are saying "Bad dog! You've been a bad boy!"


----------



## infinitymike (Mar 7, 2013)

saladdin said:


> I love the last picture of you pointing. Looks like you are saying "Bad dog! You've been a bad boy!"



LOL. YOU ACTUALLY MADE ME LAUGH OUT LOUD THAT WAS FUNNY
That's my friend and he was saying BAD CROTCH! BAD CRITCH!


----------



## ScotO (Mar 7, 2013)

infinitymike said:


> BTW. How'd did the living room turn out?
> Got a link to the completed project?


 Mike, its nearly complete.  had to take some time away from it, started dealing with some other things and needed to take a short break from it but I'm firing on all cylinders again.  I'll make sure to do a thread on the completed room when i get it finished.  Should be done around Easter weekend.


----------



## Sean McGillicuddy (Mar 7, 2013)

My two cents!
Make a new plate, that is wider than the beam, Plus the width of two spacers ( one on each side) same thickness as web of the beam. Make two small plates( one for each side) that will fit under beam. Drill thru top plate and spacers, tap smaller plate ,then bolt from top down into bottom plate !Now you will move the force to tensile strength.
Something like this pic.


----------



## infinitymike (Mar 7, 2013)

Scotty Overkill said:


> Mike,  I'm firing on all cylinders.



Sure rub it why don't ya. 

LOL


----------



## ScotO (Mar 7, 2013)

infinitymike said:


> Sure rub it why don't ya.
> 
> LOL


Lol.....no pun intended, honest!!


----------



## Seasoned Oak (Mar 7, 2013)

Those tree knotches are super tough.Imagine the strength needed to keep the tree from splitting in high wind. I jammed a 30 ton splitter on those things a dozen times. Best thing to do is split the outside quarters and let that nuclear core alone.


----------



## infinitymike (Mar 7, 2013)

Sean McGillicuddy said:


> My two cents!
> Make a new plate, that is wider than the beam, Plus the width of two spacers ( one on each side) same thickness as web of the beam. Make two small plates( one for each side) that will fit under beam. Drill thru top plate and spacers, tap smaller plate ,then bolt from top down into bottom plate !Now you will move the force to tensile strength.
> Something like this pic.



Thats a great idea. I will look into that. That should be an easy adaptation.


----------



## Jags (Mar 7, 2013)

infinitymike said:


> The clevis is in the center of the push block.
> I don't think that there is a lot of leverage.


 
The taller OR wider you make the push plate, the larger the potential for additional leverage. It just physics, nothing more.

If you have a mis-shaped log and it physically contacts the upper left hand corner of the push plate would you rather have that contact area 3 inches from center or 6 inches (doubling the leverage).

And if it is an option - I 100% agree with Sean. A redesign of the shuttle could fix all that ails this machine.

There isn't many on the market that is more powerful than this beast - and I have no trouble with the shuttle for weakness. Notice the design.



Also - see the wiki link in my sig for a blow by blow on shuttle design.


----------



## infinitymike (Mar 12, 2013)

I got the piston back from the machine shop.
He drilled the end out, tapped it and threaded a stud in. He also pinned it through the chrome shaft.
I have the clevis seated right up against the shaft to help resist any stress in the threaded shaft.


----------



## salecker (Mar 13, 2013)

Looks a lot nicer than my welding would have.
 Got to admire a man who knows how to use his tools.


----------



## infinitymike (Mar 13, 2013)

Yeah he is good. I can't wait to throw some wood at it. 
To bad I split everything I have and it's at my friends house. 
He still has around 10 cord to split. I hope he doesn't have any more petrified crotchs left. 

I need to get more wood


----------



## gzecc (Mar 13, 2013)

infinitymike said:


> Yeah he is good. I can't wait to throw some wood at it.
> To bad I split everything I have and it's at my friends house.
> He still has around 10 cord to split. I hope he doesn't have any more petrified crotchs left.
> 
> I need to get more wood


 Is there a torque spec on the cylinder cap? I can imagine that if you tighten the rod ends too tight it could cause breakage.


----------



## infinitymike (Mar 13, 2013)

BACK IN BUSINESS


----------



## Jags (Mar 14, 2013)

Whoohooo.  I hate broken equipment.


----------



## infinitymike (Mar 14, 2013)

Jags said:


> Whoohooo.  I hate broken equipment.



ME TOO. 
When something breaks I fix it ASAP.


----------



## Bret Chase (Mar 15, 2013)

they gun drilled the ram?... I would expect it to break at the bottom of the hole.....  the rod should have been turned down and threads rolled on... IMHO


----------



## infinitymike (Mar 15, 2013)

Bret Chase said:


> they gun drilled the ram?... I would expect it to break at the bottom of the hole.....  the rod should have been turned down and threads rolled on... IMHO



Maybe, maybe not, but if I did turn down the rod, then it would be to short and return into the cylinder past the wiper seal. 
Unless, there is some way to put a stop in the back of the cylinder.


----------



## Bret Chase (Mar 15, 2013)

the butt end of the clevis and the pressure relief would serve that function...


----------



## infinitymike (Mar 15, 2013)

Bret Chase said:


> the butt end of the clevis and the pressure relief would serve that function...


 Duh! True, true. 
Next time, but hopefully there won't be a next time.


----------

