# Englander 55 TRP IP-S aka 25 IP-S



## kenstogie (Sep 12, 2013)

So I just hit the GO! button on a new (refurb)  55TRP IP-S
Here's some pics that I basically lifted from Dexterday and Mike Holton in another thread
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/mainers-mardens-stove-deal.89751/
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/got-stove-woodstove-porn.77865/page-2
 : 
 To avoid more confusion I am quoting stoveguyesw aka mike

"the cabinet style is not the determining factor as to which is which, its the build date. we started out with hanger style ,and changed to hinge style after the first couple runs of the stove.
currently anything either the IP or the IP-S will come with hinged panels, the ones we built early last year were the hanger type regardless if round or square"

The 55 TRP IP (25 IP) is on the Left and the 55 TRP IP-S (25 IP-S) is on the right.














.....  now I  have to wait for it to be delivered.  



Oh here's the specs!

Heats up to 2200 sq. ft. of living space.
Large, 80 LB. hopper holds 2 bags of wood pellets.
Huge ash drawer designed for easy ash collection.
Thermostat capable (wall OR remote) for ultimate heat control.
Easy-Access panels provide quick and easy cleaning.
Large glass door gives great view of fire flames (10 5/8 x 14 1/2).
Specially-Engineered combustion system for more realistic flame pattern & longer times between clean-out.
Freestanding unit is Mobile Home approved.
Dimensions: 26 3/4" W x 43 1/4" H x 24 3/8" D.
Weight 374 LBS.
Blower Capacity: 250 cfm; with adj settings


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## Don2222 (Sep 12, 2013)

Nice

Please let us know how it works!

Looks nice! Good Luck.


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## stayfitz (Sep 12, 2013)

Good looking stove!  Those access doors are fantastic!  Does the IP(S) version have the same heat exchanger as the EP version?


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## kenstogie (Sep 12, 2013)

"the IP is the same base exchanger setup as the CPM"   That's according to Mike from Englander. I imagine he will chime in at some point, he's the oracle when it comes to Englander  stoves. LOL


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## imacman (Sep 12, 2013)

Can't wait for pics and review!


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## kenstogie (Sep 12, 2013)

I already have the tracking number.  Luckily I just bought a little Harbor Frieght trailer and can pick it up at the freight location  which is 10 mins away.  Save me $75. Trailer and hitch only cost me 350 so now it really only cost me $275 with the actual cost dropping. LOL


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## kenstogie (Sep 12, 2013)

I am a failry good photographer, maybe I'll take a couple of good shots and foward them  the Englander. They need better pic IMHO.


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## stoveguy2esw (Sep 12, 2013)

kenstogie said:


> I already have the tracking number.  Luckily I just bought a little Harbor Frieght trailer and can pick it up at the freight location  which is 10 mins away.  Save me $75. Trailer and hitch only cost me 350 so now it really only cost me $275 with the actual cost dropping. LOL


 


yeah my shipping guy buzzed me up earlier today about that stove i figured you were the one who had bought it.

as for the pic's i didnt exactly have "high end" camera, just shot em with my digital on the fly so i could take em home to post.

but feel free to shoot some better shots when you get yours installed


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## stoveguy2esw (Sep 12, 2013)

oh andf yeah, as for the roound and squared versions , the outer shell and the top being a different shape is the only real difference. the inner "hull" of the stove inside of the cabinet and the hopper etc are identical


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## mchasal (Sep 13, 2013)

kenstogie said:


> I already have the tracking number.  Luckily I just bought a little Harbor Frieght trailer and can pick it up at the freight location  which is 10 mins away.  Save me $75. Trailer and hitch only cost me 350 so now it really only cost me $275 with the actual cost dropping. LOL



Congrats on the new stove. I'm looking at the same model. Can you share where you got it from? The listing on AmFm Energy doesn't have the "S" on it and looks to be the rounded model. Liking the easier access with the S.


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## stoveguy2esw (Sep 13, 2013)

mchasal said:


> Congrats on the new stove. I'm looking at the same model. Can you share where you got it from? The listing on AmFm Energy doesn't have the "S" on it and looks to be the rounded model. Liking the easier access with the S.


 


andy at AMFM doesnt have any "s" versions in stock right now, as for access its pretty much the same ,  only difference is the shape of the panels.

im going to be over at the south plant for a meeting tomorrow morning, i'll check and see if there are any "s" models available that he would not know about yet. will let ya know


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## mchasal (Sep 13, 2013)

stoveguy2esw said:


> andy at AMFM doesnt have any "s" versions in stock right now, as for access its pretty much the same ,  only difference is the shape of the panels.
> 
> im going to be over at the south plant for a meeting tomorrow morning, i'll check and see if there are any "s" models available that he would not know about yet. will let ya know



Thanks for the info. The top post says that the S has the hinged doors but the older one requires unbolting the side panels. Is that incorrect? Initially looking at the pics, I thought the one with the doors wide open was the S, but now I'm not sure.

Edit: Ok, looking at the pics again it's clear that the one with the doors open is the rounded model. So the access is the same and only the shape of the shell. Which is of course correct as that is what Mike said.  @kenstogie, perhaps you can edit the OP to correct that.


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## stoveguy2esw (Sep 13, 2013)

mchasal said:


> Thanks for the info. The top post says that the S has the hinged doors but the older one requires unbolting the side panels. Is that incorrect? Initially looking at the pics, I thought the one with the doors wide open was the S, but now I'm not sure.
> 
> Edit: Ok, looking at the pics again it's clear that the one with the doors open is the rounded model. So the access is the same and only the shape of the shell. Which is of course correct as that is what Mike said.  @kenstogie, perhaps you can edit the OP to correct that.


 


when we we first produced then they had "lift off" sides  the later versions are "swing out" versions, i'll check to see which one andy has in stock for that round one and let you know


FWIW neither version requires any "unbolting" to remove the sides and the front has always been hinged to swing out. only cover which is bolted on is the rear access panel (on all of them) but its going to be a rare case that the rear panel would have to be removed to do anything.


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## mchasal (Sep 13, 2013)

stoveguy2esw said:


> when we we first produced then they had "lift off" sides  the later versions are "swing out" versions, i'll check to see which one andy has in stock for that round one and let you know
> 
> 
> FWIW neither version requires any "unbolting" to remove the sides and the front has always been hinged to swing out. only cover which is bolted on is the rear access panel (on all of them) but its going to be a rare case that the rear panel would have to be removed to do anything.



Ok, that's great, thanks a bunch. Either one would work fine for me, I just didn't want to have to get tools out if there was an option. The lift off might even be better as the planned location will have a wall to the left. Do the hinged doors have lift off hinges as well?


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## stoveguy2esw (Sep 13, 2013)

mchasal said:


> Ok, that's great, thanks a bunch. Either one would work fine for me, I just didn't want to have to get tools out if there was an option. The lift off might even be better as the planned location will have a wall to the left. Do the hinged doors have lift off hinges as well?


 


actually no, they are "either /or"  so it will be either a hinged model or a "hanger" model.  we thought about "close quarters" initially when we went with the hung sides , but decided after the fact the swing outs would be more popular as the panels are fairly large , so lifting them out may be challenging for some customers. to me both are quite easy, but im a big boy

the front panel though all of them are swing out so to access the front door of the firebox you do not have to lift off the panel on the front even if its a "hanger" version on the sides


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## mchasal (Sep 13, 2013)

stoveguy2esw said:


> actually no, they are "either /or"  so it will be either a hinged model or a "hanger" model.  we thought about "close quarters" initially when we went with the hung sides , but decided after the fact the swing outs would be more popular as the panels are fairly large , so lifting them out may be challenging for some customers. to me both are quite easy, but im a big boy
> 
> the front panel though all of them are swing out so to access the front door of the firebox you do not have to lift off the panel on the front even if its a "hanger" version on the sides



Ok, thanks again for all the info, and patience.


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## kenstogie (Sep 15, 2013)

Edits made.  Thanks Mike for the clarifications.   Been working for 3 weeks straight so not a lot of time.   Stove is supposed to arrive on 17th.  Maybe pick up on 18th?   Dunno, but as soon as I can.   Its like being  a kid before xmas.  I will do the driveway test but am installing a floor (probably h/w or pergo type first prior to install.   Also going to make a hearth.


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## stoveguy2esw (Sep 16, 2013)

ok, i think we're still a bit out of kilter on the "lift off" versus hinged models.

the cabinet style is not the determining factor as to which is which, its the build date. we started out with hanger style ,and changed to hinge style after the first couple runs of the stove.

currently anything either the IP or the IP-S will come with hinged panels, the ones we built early last year were the hanger type regardless if round or square


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## kenstogie (Sep 17, 2013)

Got the call early yesterday morning "your stove is in, come by and pick it up"  So I left work early to hook up the trailerconnection kit in my car. It started raining and besides muttering a few curse words I got the trailer lights/connections done by about 6.  ....about 3 hours, which I didn't think was all that bad considering I'd never done it before and I wanted to take my time and do it right.  Amazingly everything worked the first time with no issues.

So off to the Estes trucking  where the pellet stove was. Shooting the $h! _  with the guys there and they asked "Is that a pellet stove?" and then they asked "Is that from AMFM or something like that?" "We see those all  the time" 

So I loaded it onto my $200 harbor freight special trailer strapped it down and away I went.  It did shift a little bit in transit so be careful if your doing the same thing.

Called up a cigar  buddy of mine to help me muscle it into the house and now it sits on a dolly in the basement.  Once I put my floor in (pergo/insulation over concrete) and build a hearth I will install the stove. And supplies are being bought this weekend so I hope (for me that means I WILL!)  to get much of it done in the next week or 2.

Very, very nice looking stove but by the time it was all said and done it was 9:30 and I hadn't eaten so I really didn't scope it out as much as I'd have liked.

Pics to follow.

I also list the second 25 PDVC I had in CL and have gotten probably 10 calls/texts/emails.  Someones coming over to look at this evening with a truck so it's looking promising that will be sold.


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## imacman (Sep 17, 2013)

Congrats on the new stove.  We'll all be waiting for the install & burning pics......btw, son't forget to do your pre-burn outdoors.....since it's on a dolly, easy to do, and maybe we can see some pre-install burning pics!


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## kenstogie (Sep 17, 2013)

imacman said:


> Congrats on the new stove.  We'll all be waiting for the install & burning pics......btw, son't forget to do your pre-burn outdoors.....since it's on a dolly, easy to do, and maybe we can see some pre-install burning pics!


 Thanks I forgot about that!! What are the procedures for that?  It's my first "new" stove.


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## imacman (Sep 17, 2013)

kenstogie said:


> Thanks I forgot about that!! What are the procedures for that?  It's my first "new" stove.


Burn on 5/5 for 3 hours, I think.   There should be a info CD in with the paperwork that goes over all that stuff.

Hold on....I'll take a look at mine.....


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## stoveguy2esw (Sep 17, 2013)

actually i dont think that one has a dvd in it, we have just gotten them back from the manufacturer in the last couple days. i can check on that and maybe have one sent up but it wouldnt be of much help today i guess.


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## imacman (Sep 17, 2013)

Yep, and do an initial "dry run" without any pellets......that takes about 20 minutes and checks all the systems and safety shutdown.

Then, put pellets in and burn on 5/5 for 3 hours.  Don't need any exhaust pipe either, so just roll it outdoors and fire it up.


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## kenstogie (Sep 17, 2013)

I don't need no DVD as long as I know what to do.     It will be cool to see it fire up.

So then the break in is basically.
...
1- Plug it in, Hit start, check to make sure the auger and combution fan work.  Make sure the "oh sh!t no fire auto shutoff" is working too. this take about 20 mins. I understand the room blower will never spin as it never reaches temp.
2- Take it outside and fire it up for 3 hours on 5 (combustion) and 5 (room fan) to burn off any excess paint/solvents/oils/grease etc etc. and to make sure the room blower works also.  Hit shutdown to make sure that works too.

I seem to recall that it may smoke a little while doing the break in, is this correct?


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## imacman (Sep 17, 2013)

stoveguy2esw said:


> actually i dont think that one has a dvd in it, we have just gotten them back from the manufacturer in the last couple days. i can check on that and maybe have one sent up but it wouldnt be of much help today i guess.





kenstogie said:


> I don't need no DVD as long as I know what to do.     It will be cool to see it fire up.
> 
> So then the break in is basically.
> ...
> ...


You got it!!

But the DVD is a good thing to have for future reference.


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## stoveguy2esw (Sep 17, 2013)

kenstogie said:


> I don't need no DVD as long as I know what to do.     It will be cool to see it fire up.
> 
> So then the break in is basically.
> ...
> ...


 
yep thats pretty much it


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## kenstogie (Sep 17, 2013)

One thing I noticed is a little surface rust in the burn pot area nothing major.  Should I paint it? I  remember seeing a thread on others painting their burnpot area and would like my new stove to look nice......


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## stillersnut (Sep 17, 2013)

That is one nice looking stove.  Love the cabinet style and ease of getting to the guts of it for repairs. Can't wait to see pics of her burning.


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## imacman (Sep 17, 2013)

Pics!!  (the music from Jeopardy is playing in the background)


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## stoveguy2esw (Sep 17, 2013)

kenstogie said:


> One thing I noticed is a little surface rust in the burn pot area nothing major.  Should I paint it? I  remember seeing a thread on others painting their burnpot area and would like my new stove to look nice......




you'll just burn the paint off with the first fire


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## ChandlerR (Sep 17, 2013)

That's a very cool looking stove!  The overall design looks familiar. I like anything that gives you access like that for maintenance.  I will be interested in hearing how it goes!


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## kenstogie (Sep 17, 2013)

you wanted pics???? here's a few that I just quickly snapped...


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## kenstogie (Sep 17, 2013)




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## kenstogie (Sep 17, 2013)




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## kenstogie (Sep 17, 2013)

So there's some pix. BTW  I did sell my other 25 PDVC and it went in 1 day.  Sweet.  Buy them used in the spring, fixem up, paint them and sell em in the fall. It's an easy formula.  Maybe I should've asked more for them?


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## kenstogie (Sep 17, 2013)




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## mchasal (Sep 18, 2013)

Thanks for all the great pics.

That rust in the firebox looks troubling, but I suppose the heat will take care of it? I imagine even high-temp paint wouldn't survive in the box itself.


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## kenstogie (Sep 18, 2013)

mchasalits fine.   It is surface rust that I post: 1521700 said:
			
		

> Thanks for all the great pics.
> 
> That rust in the firebox looks troubling, but I suppose the heat will take care of it? I imagine even high-temp paint wouldn't survive in the box itself.


I am sure that I could wipe off. Your welcome about the pics.


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## imacman (Sep 18, 2013)

mchasal said:


> ....That rust in the firebox looks troubling, but I suppose the heat will take care of it? ....


Surface rust....not to worry.  Light sanding & hi heat paint, or just let the heat take care of it.


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## kenstogie (Oct 4, 2013)

almost ready to install anyway, I was hanging out with a friend of mine who has a Harmon and he was curious what kind of BTU'ss this puts out and I did not see it listed on the website or the literature that came with it.    BTU'S  ??


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## stoveguy2esw (Oct 4, 2013)

the EPA rated output value on the 25-IP is listed at 14,108 to 35,023 BTU/HR


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## kenstogie (Oct 14, 2013)

I am a little late but thanks Mike for the info. 



BTW   did the 20 min dry run and it shut off with the E2 code as it should.  Then did the driveway 2 hour burn and everything seemed aok.  I didn't notice any odd smells well maybe one fofor like a second or 5 but that could've been from elsewhere I suppose. ? Also I f7nished my homemade hearth and finally ready for the install.  Pics and details to follow...


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## kenstogie (Oct 14, 2013)

First the homemade hearth...  It's a sheet of that wood chip board, 2 sheets of concrete board and some tile on top. Bottom will be covered with rug to protect new fllor nothing fancy but turned out nice considering....

A) never even knew there was concrete board before seeing it here nor had I ever used it    and     
B) I've never done any tiling...ever.

Amazing what youtube will show you these days. Anyway I was quite pleased with the results.  For me between tile, grout, tile cement, 2 concrete board, sheet of chip board and misc stuff ......cost was about $100. Give or take.  The molding around the edge was just recycled that matches the new floor (laminate) and trim in the man cave.  (Thanks to Steve for lending me his tile stuff and helping me mud my room.)









And the first burn....













and the other burn I did during the first burn...


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## WoodPorn (Oct 15, 2013)

Nice Maduro there Ken!
Oh yeah, the pad and stove look good too.


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## kenstogie (Oct 15, 2013)

WoodPorn said:


> Nice Maduro there Ken!
> Oh yeah, the pad and stove look good too.


 I do love a good Maduro. And the Triple A (a AJ Fernandez blend)  is pretty good though truth be told I used some Photoshop "magic" to make this one look even better.


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## imacman (Oct 15, 2013)

Looks good Ken.   Looking forward to your reviews once the real heating season begins.


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## kenstogie (Oct 15, 2013)

That is the test for sure. I will let y'all know.


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## mchasal (Oct 18, 2013)

I (finally) just ordered a PIP from AMFM as well. Can't wait til it gets here! 

Thanks for all the pics and info everyone!


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## stayfitz (Oct 18, 2013)

mchasal said:


> I (finally) just ordered a PIP from AMFM as well. Can't wait til it gets here!
> 
> Thanks for all the pics and info everyone!



Awesome!  I wish I had another spot in the house for an IP.  Look forward to seeing pictures!


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## mchasal (Oct 18, 2013)

stayfitz said:


> Awesome!  I wish I had another spot in the house for an IP.  Look forward to seeing pictures!



You can start stacking stoves.


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## mchasal (Oct 18, 2013)

I'm kinda enjoying the fact that I'm not really sure if I'm going to get the rounded or the squared off version. It's like a surprise on Christmas morning!


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## stoveguy2esw (Oct 18, 2013)

mchasal said:


> I'm kinda enjoying the fact that I'm not really sure if I'm going to get the rounded or the squared off version. It's like a surprise on Christmas morning!



did you order a new unit from andy? was it a factory second or just a straight up "new stove"?

i can find out for you easily enough


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## mchasal (Oct 18, 2013)

stoveguy2esw said:


> did you order a new unit from andy? was it a factory second or just a straight up "new stove"?
> 
> i can find out for you easily enough



Yes, from Andy at AMFM (well, ordered on line, didn't talk with him). It was new, no refurbs in stock.  It doesn't really matter, I'll be happy with either one.


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## stoveguy2esw (Oct 18, 2013)

mchasal said:


> Yes, from Andy at AMFM (well, ordered on line, didn't talk with him). It was new, no refurbs in stock.  It doesn't really matter, I'll be happy with either one.




i knew there were no refurbs (i do literally all of them) was curious if it was a "factory second" or not.

i will check on it and should be able to let you know by monday evening. wasn't at work today had to take the wife to the ER, she's fine , no worries.

either way though, i think you will get a kick outta this unit, i'd think about one in my house , but its a bit taller than the PAH and the hopper is smaller so the wife (who aint tall at all) would have to load it if i was away for a few days.
i do like the "imagined"look though , especially the squared off one, in my kitchen. its a cool machine


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## mchasal (Oct 18, 2013)

stoveguy2esw said:


> i knew there were no refurbs (i do literally all of them) was curious if it was a "factory second" or not.
> 
> i will check on it and should be able to let you know by monday evening. wasn't at work today had to take the wife to the ER, she's fine , no worries.
> 
> ...



I believe it's "new" http://www.amfmenergy.com/55epacepest21.html 
I would have certainly taken a refurb or second, but don't appear to be any available.


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## stoveguy2esw (Oct 18, 2013)

yeah, looks like a new one, dang, i looked at the ad, heck of a price. 

FWIW i just lit off my PAH about a half hour ago, purring like a kitten. gonna be a short run though, ain't that cold yet, but was just wanting to make sure its all ready to go wife will be home for several days so if she gets cold while im at work all she has to do it walk out to the thermostat and click it to heat


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## mchasal (Oct 18, 2013)

stoveguy2esw said:


> yeah, looks like a new one, dang, i looked at the ad, heck of a price.
> 
> FWIW i just lit off my PAH about a half hour ago, purring like a kitten. gonna be a short run though, ain't that cold yet, but was just wanting to make sure its all ready to go wife will be home for several days so if she gets cold while im at work all she has to do it walk out to the thermostat and click it to heat



Yeah, $500 less than anywhere else I found it. The refurb when they were in stock were $1295, so only $150 difference, not a big deal. 

Hope your wife feels better soon.


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## stoveguy2esw (Oct 18, 2013)

mchasal said:


> Yeah, $500 less than anywhere else I found it. The refurb when they were in stock were $1295, so only $150 difference, not a big deal.
> 
> Hope your wife feels better soon.




thanks man, i appreciate that. been a long thing with her we're hoping we are in the last of it. she's had 4 surgeries in the last year and a half , started with diverticulitis then hernia surgeries after that we found out this morning she has another small one. hopefully will be an easy one this time.

as for refurbs, they are few and far between on the IP, in my mind thats a good sign, i expect as much though, we had one back n the plant last season hooked up to a "less than perfect" installation to heat the back bathroom it was literally torture tested and hardly missed a lick, other stoves we had back there didn't like the setup and had to be cleaned a lot more than normally to keep it running clean, this thing just kept banging away ash piled up all over the inside of it. one of its advantages is the firebox was created from the base firebox of the CPM (a multifuel stove) a unit designed to burn higher ash content fuels, now this one wasn't designed to handle corn but part of the benefits of the CPM setup is the "toughness" factor, it can take a lot of running between cleanings in a pinch (not suggesting to test that theory we already did) but its quite capable in that respect.

anyway, im sure you will love the stove, and , if you end up with any questions concerns , whatever, just give me a yell. im always available for my friends. owe ya one anyway, wife looked over my shoulder and read your post, gave me a smooch  one of the reasons i love this site, you're always among friends in here


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## mchasal (Oct 18, 2013)

Aww, glad I could help you get some sugah. 

I'm sure I'll have some questions, already have another thread running about my tricky venting situation. 

Your availability and willingness here was a major factor in my choice to buy an Englander stove.


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## stoveguy2esw (Oct 18, 2013)

i'll look at the other thread, dunno if ive seen it yet. taking a peek


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## ChandlerR (Oct 18, 2013)

This thread should be read by every manufacturer of pellet stoves...hell, any manufacturer of consumer products!  Mike, you have done more for your company than a multi million dollar ad campaign. 

 I really like the deign of the IP. It would fit right where my Baby is 

Just read about your wire and the ER.  Scary stuff. I see she's home and that's a good thing!


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## imacman (Oct 18, 2013)

stoveguy2esw said:


> thanks man, i appreciate that. been a long thing with her we're hoping we are in the last of it. she's had 4 surgeries in the last year and a half , started with diverticulitis then hernia surgeries after that we found out this morning she has another small one. hopefully will be an easy one this time......



Mike glad she's OK.  Yes, you have a LOT of friends here.


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## stoveguy2esw (Oct 18, 2013)

ChandlerR said:


> This thread should be read by every manufacturer of pellet stoves...hell, any manufacturer of consumer products!  Mike, you have done more for your company than a multi million dollar ad campaign.
> 
> I really like the deign of the IP. It would fit right where my Baby is
> 
> Just read about your wire and the ER.  Scary stuff. I see she's home and that's a good thing!




thanks my friend.

as for the "baby" it from what i hear is a solid unit, not real familiar with it (baby countryside right?)

FWIW though, i do this because i enjoy it. if it sells a few more stoves for my company its an added perk, i agree and would welcome more of the manufacturers to join in here , but to be honest, they should do it as individuals because they enjoy it, not to "make a buck" just to join in and have fun while offering their expertise. i should note "fyrebug" is a member and a manufacturer who adds his thoughts a lot, so im not alone from that standpoint our longtime friend Corie p works for Harman (used to be one of our engineers and a friend as well) still finds time occasionally to pop in ( a brilliant young man BTW that i was privileged to work along side of).

 i will say this and i do every time and i mean it every time; the person who should get the real credit for all this is Craig (webbie), he gives us the vehicle to communicate. he allows me and the other industry reps "play in his yard" he doesn't demand anything from us in the industry to do so and i salute him for that (and i harangue my boss about sliding him some ad bucks whenever i get an opening). i "learn" more in here than i "teach" which makes me a better technician for my customers.if i didn't have access to this site i would not be as good at what i do as i am now. so yeah, webbie is the hero in this, im just a guy that enjoys doing what i do


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## stoveguy2esw (Oct 18, 2013)

imacman said:


> Mike glad she's OK.  Yes, you have a LOT of friends here.




i know that IMac, and i appreciate it more than i can express, thanks my friend. thanks for the kind words


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## BrotherBart (Oct 18, 2013)

stoveguy2esw said:


> (and i harangue my boss about sliding him some ad bucks whenever i get an opening).



Don't sweat that. Just keep doing what ya do my friend. Building me three great stoves and helping folks out here.


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## stoveguy2esw (Oct 18, 2013)

mchasal said:


> Aww, glad I could help you get some sugah.
> 
> I'm sure I'll have some questions, already have another thread running about my tricky venting situation.
> 
> Your availability and willingness here was a major factor in my choice to buy an Englander stove.




hey m, im having a time trying to locate the thread you are talking about, could you reply with a link?

just go to the thread and then go up top, click and copy/paste.then post


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## mchasal (Oct 18, 2013)

stoveguy2esw said:


> hey m, im having a time trying to locate the thread you are talking about, could you reply with a link?
> 
> just go to the thread and then go up top, click and copy/paste.then post



Sure, sorry about that: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/venting-through-angled-wall.115631/
I appreciate you taking a look.


----------



## ChandlerR (Oct 18, 2013)

stoveguy2esw said:


> thanks my friend.
> 
> as for the "baby" it from what i hear is a solid unit, not real familiar with it (baby countryside right?)
> 
> ...




I know you do it as Mike, the person, not Mike the stove company, but you are the face of the company and a much appreciated face at that!  I come here daily, not because I am having issues with my stove but because I enjoy learning. Plus, every once in a while a question is asked that lets me go and cook some popcorn, crack open a beer, and have fun watching the fun!

My stove is a Baby Countryside. I bought it without doing any research, because it was during the fuel crisis when there were no pellet stoves to be had for the money I could spend anywhere but the big box stores. Used ones were crazy money! I looked at ESW stoves at HD and they were all too big for where I needed to put the stove. They had the Baby's there and it was the perfect size. I paid $1600 for it plus the pipe and pad. Now if there was an IP there it would be in my house right now.  I am fortunate that I haven't had any problems with my stove but if I had to do it again, I would steer clear


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## kenstogie (Oct 24, 2013)

Well there have been a few posts in this thread since last I checked in.

Sorry to hear about Mike's wife but she's home and that's really good 

It's also nice to see others getting the IP. I just finished hooking mine up last night and is running now.  Having a resource that knows his stuff and all the others that know there stuff around here were big factors in me getting an Englander too.  ...Cuz I am a DIY'er.

It is a big unit,  bigger than I thought but it is an attractive unit too. Nice clean lines.  I took the back of it off during the install and snapped few pics. Once I get a chance I'll post them.

@mchasal  ..... don't forget pics and a review of the unit after you've used it for a while.


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## mchasal (Oct 24, 2013)

kenstogie said:


> @mchasal  ..... don't forget pics and a review of the unit after you've used it for a while.



Will do, I'm actually waiting for the truck to come right now!


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## mchasal (Oct 24, 2013)

Truck showed up a little while ago! It was a semi which dashed any hopes of them bringing it up the driveway, so.....

Off the liftgate into the pickup:




Up the driveway and off the truck (I need a set of forks, there's a jack and 2 ratchet straps holding the stove (kinda) in:




And into the garage (next to the pellets):




Off to do the dry run and burn in!


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## stoveguy2esw (Oct 24, 2013)

sa-weeet !  sombody gonna have some heat pretty soon


----------



## kenstogie (Oct 24, 2013)

mchasal said:


> Truck showed up a little while ago! It was a semi which dashed any hopes of them bringing it up the driveway, so.....
> 
> Off the liftgate into the pickup:
> 
> ...


 the images aren't showing up.          it's cool you got it though enjoy that heat.


----------



## mchasal (Oct 24, 2013)

kenstogie said:


> the images aren't showing up.          it's cool you got it though enjoy that heat.



Hmm, showing fine for me. They're in Dropbox, so should be pretty reliable. Anyone else seeing/not seeing them?

Here are the links, do these work if you load them in a new tab?

http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2030299/StoveTruck.JPG
http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2030299/StoveTractor.JPG 
http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2030299/StoveGarage.JPG


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## mchasal (Oct 24, 2013)

stoveguy2esw said:


> sa-weeet !  sombody gonna have some heat pretty soon



Well, all is not rosy. I don't seem to be getting ignition. I can see a faint glow of the ignitor in the tube, but it doesn't seem very bright, not like the dvd shows, and it's also not very hot. I can take the burn pot out and touch the end of the tube. It takes several seconds before I feel enough heat to be uncomfortable. Is that normal?

I'm curious if I can do the pre burn manually to get that out of the way while I figure out the problem?


----------



## kenstogie (Oct 24, 2013)

mchasal said:


> Well, all is not rosy. I don't seem to be getting ignition. I can see a faint glow of the ignitor in the tube, but it doesn't seem very bright, not like the dvd shows, and it's also not very hot. I can take the burn pot out and touch the end of the tube. It takes several seconds before I feel enough heat to be uncomfortable. Is that normal?
> 
> I'm curious if I can do the pre burn manually to get that out of the way while I figure out the problem?


Yea it shows fine now, I was on a g8vt computer so maybe that's why.   I think a manual light to do the pre burn would be fine. You are only burning excess paint and oils and so forth.


----------



## kenstogie (Oct 24, 2013)

Btw. I set mine at one this morn in a 50 degree house and its a balmy 70 upstairs even though the stove is down stairs.   I dare say it throws more heat than the 25pdvc. Temps were 40 to 50 today.


----------



## stoveguy2esw (Oct 24, 2013)

mchasal said:


> Well, all is not rosy. I don't seem to be getting ignition. I can see a faint glow of the ignitor in the tube, but it doesn't seem very bright, not like the dvd shows, and it's also not very hot. I can take the burn pot out and touch the end of the tube. It takes several seconds before I feel enough heat to be uncomfortable. Is that normal?
> 
> I'm curious if I can do the pre burn manually to get that out of the way while I figure out the problem?




make certain the burn pot is making contact with the igniter sleeve, it has to slide all the way back against it or the igniter heat will wrap around the pot instead of getting forced through the pellets


----------



## mchasal (Oct 24, 2013)

stoveguy2esw said:


> make certain the burn pot is making contact with the igniter sleeve, it has to slide all the way back against it or the igniter heat will wrap around the pot instead of getting forced through the pellets



Ok, will check that, it's burning now after a rather tough manual lighting. It seems to be burning pretty lazily. I'm actually growing suspect of the pellets. I have a couple of bags with rips in them and figured I'd burn through them first, but maybe they've got some moisture. They're also some last season pellets that I got "used". Though they were still factory wrapped and under a roof. I cracked open a non-ripped bag to see if that improves things. Right now it's on 5-5 and the flame isn't really leaving the burnpot.


----------



## stoveguy2esw (Oct 24, 2013)

ok, check settings , should be at 4-4-1 on the bottom. as for a lazy fire , if its lazy it should be big, a tight short violent fire is the opposite. is it connected to a flue yet? stove will burn a bit different when just venting into open air, no back pressure from the vent.

whats the heat output feel like right at the vent?


----------



## mchasal (Oct 24, 2013)

stoveguy2esw said:


> ok, check settings , should be at 4-4-1 on the bottom. as for a lazy fire , if its lazy it should be big, a tight short violent fire is the opposite. is it connected to a flue yet? stove will burn a bit different when just venting into open air, no back pressure from the vent.
> 
> whats the heat output feel like right at the vent?



No flue yet, just burning open. Verified settings are 4-4-1.
Heat output is barely warm. 

Sorry for my mistaken terminology. It is pretty tight, but very very short. I did notice that if I open the door I get a big lazy fire. Here's a pic burning on 6. It's lopsided, seems only to burn out the left.


----------



## stoveguy2esw (Oct 24, 2013)

is this thing outdoors? whats the temp out there? as for the fire only on the left is the cradle level, looks like it may be angled down to the left, this is adjustable but not while hot.


----------



## mchasal (Oct 24, 2013)

stoveguy2esw said:


> is this thing outdoors? whats the temp out there? as for the fire only on the left is the cradle level, looks like it may be angled down to the left, this is adjustable but not while hot.



Yeah, it's sitting right at the edge of my garage. Just doing the pre-burn. Says it's 46 out right now. Sorry if I wasn't clear on that, but I read several recommendations to do that outdoors to avoid all the fumes in the house. If that could be the issue, I'll just let it finish and then continue troubleshooting, if needed, once it's installed. Certainly possible that it's not level, still on the pallet right now. 

Here's a short vid that's more indicative:


----------



## kenstogie (Oct 24, 2013)

That ain't right.  Mine burns a healthy flame on 5 or 1 for that matter.  You are in good hands though.


----------



## BrotherBart (Oct 24, 2013)

The room air blower pulling in a constant supply of 46 degree air ain't gonna be blowing very hot air out the front.  Install that thing and heat the house.


----------



## mchasal (Oct 24, 2013)

BrotherBart said:


> The room air blower pulling in a constant supply of 46 degree air ain't gonna be blowing very hot air out the front.  Install that thing and heat the house.



Agreed, and I'm not really concerned about that part at the moment, but the cold air shouldn't really affect the burn itself. With the OAK installed it will be getting that same cold air, and certainly much colder when it's really winter out. This was mostly spurred on by the lack of ignition. I might run out to Lowes in the morning and pick up a bag of pellets to try and rule them out as an issue.

Thanks to Mike and everyone for the advice.


----------



## stoveguy2esw (Oct 24, 2013)

looks like the burn is kinda low but then that could be with the unrestricted flue issue. i think we get it n the house and see what it does when connected to the vent. the ambient temps will distort output.

yeah im with BB, just let it complete the "stinky burn" and lets get it in the flue and see where we stand there. no worries bro, i'll get you straight one way or another


----------



## BrotherBart (Oct 24, 2013)

And the firebox will be rising in temperature improving combustion.


----------



## mchasal (Oct 24, 2013)

stoveguy2esw said:


> yeah im with BB, just let it complete the "stinky burn" and lets get it in the flue and see where we stand there. no worries bro, i'll get you straight one way or another



Don't worry, I'm confident of that, the support's been great. 

Ok, I'll let it burn a while longer and hopefully get it in the house this weekend. I did get a bunch of smoke off the cabinet and such that subsided, so I think the stinky burn is basically done. 

Thanks all.


----------



## BrotherBart (Oct 24, 2013)

Or let me send ya the money for freight to send that nasty thing down this way to put in my fireplace.


----------



## stoveguy2esw (Oct 24, 2013)

BrotherBart said:


> Or let me send ya the money for freight to send that nasty thing down this way to put in my fireplace.




easy BB it 'll work besides you would have to get on the roof to fill it (long pour) 

i got this


----------



## mchasal (Oct 24, 2013)

BrotherBart said:


> Or let me send ya the money for freight to send that nasty thing down this way to put in my fireplace.



Haha, no chance Brother.


----------



## BrotherBart (Oct 24, 2013)

Whoops. Thought it was the EP insert. 

Never mind.


----------



## mchasal (Oct 24, 2013)

BrotherBart said:


> Whoops. Thought it was the EP insert.
> 
> Never mind.



I thought you just had a really tall fireplace.


----------



## BrotherBart (Oct 24, 2013)

Place is getting really busy and it is hard for an old guy to keep up.


----------



## ChandlerR (Oct 24, 2013)

mchasal said:


> Agreed, and I'm not really concerned about that part at the moment, but the cold air shouldn't really affect the burn itself. With the OAK installed it will be getting that same cold air, and certainly much colder when it's really winter out. This was mostly spurred on by the lack of ignition. I might run out to Lowes in the morning and pick up a bag of pellets to try and rule them out as an issue.
> 
> Thanks to Mike and everyone for the advice.


BB mentioned about the cold air.  Yes, the OAK pulls outside air, but the room blower doesn't. That could make a difference.  If this was any other stove, I would be concerned that you could be fighting with your dealer. Not so with this stove. You're in good hands and I am looking forward to watching this play out.


----------



## kenstogie (Oct 25, 2013)

SO I have used my new TRP IP for a few days and it heats my home well.  Temps have been 30-50 range and at 1 my house has slowly crept up to near 70 upstairs (temp taken 2 places with a +- 2 deg diff)  not sure how warm it is downstairs where the stove is

I have noticed I had some Green Supremes Platinums ? (lowes last year) and at 1 they burn nice and clean and hot.

The stuff i just got from Home Depot yesterday has the window black after one night. Flame does seem a little "lazier" Not sure if this is coincidental or correlated. Will do further tests.

I have not cleaned at all but 2 days should be fine with the largish ash pan.

Oh yes here are the install pics and since I had the back off I figure I'd snap a few pics of componants etc. (if you notice anything please let me know would rather hurt my pride a bit than start a fire!)


----------



## kenstogie (Oct 25, 2013)

Pics Part 2......






















The homemade hearth gives me about 7" of clearance all the way around and I am staining the trim to match the floor.  I also plan to paint all the venting black but not a priority as you don't even see it.


----------



## kenstogie (Oct 26, 2013)

Filled up my 80 lb hopper and it has been running continuously since Thursday a at 6 pm soo about 2 days plus the few hours left in the hopper.     Heat wise it's keeping my house at 66-70 upstair a lttle cooler in rooms over my garage.   Downstairs where the stove is its about 70-75.     Temps have been 30-50 tops. Running and heating has been awesome a lot better than my 25 pdvc. 

 The only minor thing that I I am pretty sure I can adjut  i is that at 1 it burns a little rich and gets the burn area black soot.  Not sure what the settings are but I haven't changed them.  Also note worthy is that I am using the home depot specials.  I am trying 6 other kinds of varying quality and price.


----------



## stoveguy2esw (Oct 27, 2013)

kenstogie said:


> Filled up my 80 lb hopper and it has been running continuously since Thursday a at 6 pm soo about 2 days plus the few hours left in the hopper.     Heat wise it's keeping my house at 66-70 upstair a lttle cooler in rooms over my garage.   Downstairs where the stove is its about 70-75.     Temps have been 30-50 tops. Running and heating has been awesome a lot better than my 25 pdvc.
> 
> The only minor thing that I I am pretty sure I can adjut  i is that at 1 it burns a little rich and gets the burn area black soot.  Not sure what the settings are but I haven't changed them.  Also note worthy is that I am using the home depot specials.  I am trying 6 other kinds of varying quality and price.




kool! i figured you'd like it, hey i loved my P-10  right up until i put in my pah and felt heat hitting me from 10 ft away when the blower kicked on the first time. any word from our other ip newby? still waiting with baited breath to see how he's making out


----------



## mchasal (Oct 27, 2013)

stoveguy2esw said:


> kool! i figured you'd like it, hey i loved my P-10  right up until i put in my pah and felt heat hitting me from 10 ft away when the blower kicked on the first time. any word from our other ip newby? still waiting with baited breath to see how he's making out



Here I am!

Got everything installed today, just finished a little while ago. Had to make some on the fly adjustments of the vent routing due to some more surprises behind the sheet rock, but it's all setup now.





Ignore some of the finish work that needs to happen in the back. That's just window dressing 

Unfortunately, still not getting ignition. Igniter warms up, pellets feed, combustion blower runs, but no flame and it hits the E2 error code, rightly so.
I did make sure the burn pot was pushed all the way back. Also, after it gave up, I pulled the (full) burn pot out and looked through the igniter hole. Several blackened pellets visible through the hole. So, seems like it's either not getting enough heat, or I have some stubborn pellets.


----------



## stoveguy2esw (Oct 27, 2013)

mchasal said:


> Here I am!
> 
> Got everything installed today, just finished a little while ago. Had to make some on the fly adjustments of the vent routing due to some more surprises behind the sheet rock, but it's all setup now.
> 
> ...




ok, what we need to check is whether the fiberboard is preventing the pot from sliding back far enough to make contact with the igniter sleeve. this is hyper critical for clean starts. if its not bottoming out against the sleeve the heated air is diverted into the surrounding space instead of being forced into the burn pot. open the door, push against the pot towards the back of the stove see if the fiberboard (fake brick) moves and rebounds when you release. if it does this is the issue, two possible ways to fix. adjust the sleeve forward a smidge, or loosen the screw holding the fiberboard and lift it upwards just enough the back of the pot slips under it (i like the first choice better but the second is easier on the fly) you get the end of that igniter sleeve in contact with the back of the pot and it will light anything


----------



## kenstogie (Oct 27, 2013)

You'll get it sorted out I have no doubt.  Install looks good, you'll love how muchheat this throws.  It seems CONSIDERABLY more efficient ( heat per pellet )than my olde  unit.


----------



## stoveguy2esw (Oct 27, 2013)

trust me, if the igniter is doing anything at all its fine. its gotta be airflow, in this case "air diversion" the best fix is to move the sleeve forward just a little, 

here's the procedure, leave the pot in the stove (stove is cold) loosen the allen head setscrew on the igniter sleeve in the back of the stove (access through the right side door) with the pot in you shove the sleeve forward til it hits the pot, then slip it back just a wee bit to allow the pot to set loose in the cradle and still let the igniter sleeve touch the pot when the pot is slid back.this should have been done when the stove was on the finish line (i sense a note to the section leader of that part of the assembly line in my near future.)

trust me, if this igniter sleeve is flushed to the back of the pot you could cook a hot dog in the pot, but if its gapped away, it just gets warm on the pellets as the air moving around the pot diffuses the heat with sheer air volume.


----------



## mchasal (Oct 27, 2013)

stoveguy2esw said:


> ok, what we need to check is whether the fiberboard is preventing the pot from sliding back far enough to make contact with the igniter sleeve. this is hyper critical for clean starts. if its not bottoming out against the sleeve the heated air is diverted into the surrounding space instead of being forced into the burn pot. open the door, push against the pot towards the back of the stove see if the fiberboard (fake brick) moves and rebounds when you release. if it does this is the issue, two possible ways to fix. adjust the sleeve forward a smidge, or loosen the screw holding the fiberboard and lift it upwards just enough the back of the pot slips under it (i like the first choice better but the second is easier on the fly) you get the end of that igniter sleeve in contact with the back of the pot and it will light anything



Definitely not the fiberboard, that's well clear. I'll try adjusting the sleeve.


----------



## mchasal (Oct 27, 2013)

mchasal said:


> Definitely not the fiberboard, that's well clear. I'll try adjusting the sleeve.



Probably won't be tonight, so don't wait up for results. 

Thanks.


----------



## stoveguy2esw (Oct 27, 2013)

mchasal said:


> Probably won't be tonight, so don't wait up for results.
> 
> Thanks.




ok man, just curious how you were getting along, im on your schedule, not mine. just trying to make sure we got ya covered


----------



## mchasal (Oct 28, 2013)

stoveguy2esw said:


> ok man, just curious how you were getting along, im on your schedule, not mine. just trying to make sure we got ya covered



Before embarking on the surgery, I bent a paperclip to make a feeler gauge to determine if the tube was touching the pot. Slid that through the igniter hole and along the back of the burn pot and pushed the pot back. My feeler could move freely, so the tube was not contacting the burn pot. Looks like you're going to have to send that note. 

So off to make the adjustment, and it was not an easy one to make. Can't see that setscrew at all from the right side, even tried with a mirror, and just couldn't get it. I ended up pulling the back partially off (design improvement suggestion #1, make the back cover removable without disconnecting the vent & OAK) then I had to grind down my allen wrench because the arm was just a hair too long to fit in the space available. Finally got the setscrew loose and the tube wouldn't budge. started to remove the whole igniter to see what was up and as soon as I loosened the igniter bracket mounting bolt the tube slid freely. That bracket must just be a little out of square and it binds the tube up when tightened. No problem now that I know. 

Made the adjustment as described. The tube ended up about a 1/4" further in than it was, so that was definitely out of wack.

Hit the on button and waited...and waited. Probably shouldn't have stood there and watched it, but after a while, a little smoke, then a little fire, then a lot of fire! So it looks like you nailed what the issue was. Stove is happily cranking out heat now. I even managed to kill the fire by taking too long to refill the hopper, I had only partially filled it so far, and it went back through the startup mode and relit itself. 

Oh, and since I made a design improvement suggestion #1, I suppose I need to give a #2: Some lift off hinges like these: http://www.hardwaresource.com/hinge...+Joint+Hinges/Stainless+Steel+Lift+off+Hinges or just removable pin hinges would be really nice. When I was moving and installing the stove I removed all the doors, mostly just to prevent damage while I was moving it with the tractor (still no forks) but it was very convenient to have everything wide open during the installation. The hinged doors are nice for quick peeks into the innards, but I think any major servicing or cleaning would be a lot easier if the panels also be removed completely. With both these suggestions, it would be easy to gain complete access to all the components. It's only a 12 bolts to remove them now, but I suspect a removable hinge would only be an incremental cost and would be much more friendly.

Thanks for all your help and patience. I'm looking forward to learning how to get the most out of the stove.


----------



## stoveguy2esw (Oct 29, 2013)

kool beans!  glad its working for ya.

on the hinge thing , this is one of the reasons for the origional ones being "hangers" but it wasnt as popular with us as hinges when looked at for ease of access, i am passing your sugestion along to the lab guys for them to digest though


----------



## kenstogie (Oct 29, 2013)

CONGRATS To Mchasel for getting it going!! It's a great stove.The hinge thing would be cool and I must agree that being able to take off the back cover without disconnecting (doesn't the 25 PDVC do this?) would be good. Maybe 2 piece back.  


Another thing that made me scratch my head a little was the door latch. I never have had an issue with it and it surely works but it doesn't seem as "locked in" as the other Englander stoves.

I notice there are holes (see pic below)..... is there a handle I am missing?? It did come with the typical brass springy handle like on many of the other Englanders but not sure how or if that would hook on.
mike/mchasel what are your thoughts on this?





On a side note I won a Hearth.com hat yesterday YEAAAA!


----------



## mchasal (Oct 29, 2013)

kenstogie said:


> Another thing that made me scratch my head a little was the door latch. I never have had an issue with it and it surely works but it doesn't seem as "locked in" as the other Englander stoves.
> 
> I notice there are holes (see pic below)..... is there a handle I am missing?? It did come with the typical brass springy handle like on many of the other Englanders but not sure how or if that would hook on.
> mike/mchasel what are your thoughts on this?



There should have been a red handled thing included with your stove. Mine was in the bag with the literature. It's basically a long handled allen wrench with a red plastic screwdriver handle. It inserts into the matching hole on the latch. If it's missing, I'm sure Mike will get one out to you, but you can just use the proper size allen wrench in the meantime. I did not get any brass springy handle with mine, perhaps you got the wrong part?


----------



## mchasal (Oct 29, 2013)

kenstogie said:


> CONGRATS To Mchasel for getting it going!! It's a great stove.The hinge thing would be cool and I must agree that being able to take off the back cover without disconnecting (doesn't the 25 PDVC do this?) would be good. Maybe 2 piece back.



Yeah that would work, or just slotting the openings all the way to the bottom. I may end up doing that mod myself at some point. 



> On a side note I won a Hearth.com hat yesterday YEAAAA!



Congrats! It's like my Massey Ferguson hat. It was $20,000, but it came with a free tractor


----------



## kenstogie (Oct 29, 2013)

Thanks for the quick reply mchasel!  No I don't think I got any red handled anything or an allen wrench but I will check the accessory box that I have.  I think all I got was this....


----------



## kenstogie (Oct 29, 2013)

As much as I will like my hat I would trade it for the $20,000 or a tractor.  If your interested. LOL. 

Anyway that's exactly what I was thinking of doing with the two piece mod thing. File down those burrs!!


----------



## mchasal (Oct 29, 2013)

kenstogie said:


> Thanks for the quick reply mchasel!  No I don't think I got any red handled anything or an allen wrench but I will check the accessory box that I have.  I think all I got was this....



Yeah, that's not your huckleberry.

From page 42 of the manual:




If you can't find anything like that guy in the middle, get ahold of ESW and I'm sure they'll get one right out to you. Check the bottom of the front door to make sure it's not there. I'm surprised you're able to open the door without it. It's pretty tight and I need to pull up on the handle pretty firmly to pop it. Though I suppose if you're only closing it by hand it will only be so tight.


----------



## PoolGuyinCT (Oct 29, 2013)

Let it smoke.. Nothing. 601 blue wont negate


----------



## kenstogie (Oct 29, 2013)

@ mchasal   I will, that'd be funny if it was there the entire time.  

@PoolGuyinCT Yea I love those 601 blues and they have some kick!   the greens were good back in 07 if I recall my years correctly not sure how the recent years have been.  The two that have stood out for me are the Tatuaje "Reserva" and the My Father "La Bijou, 1922"  Awesome cigars that come with awesome pricetags, LOL


----------



## PoolGuyinCT (Oct 29, 2013)

Agreed, the greens are still excellent cigars..

Something is going on with 601, partnership dissolved ?.

Been hitting 5 packs like a champ on he monster.. With code grabbing sub 4$ a 
	

		
			
		

		
	



	

		
			
		

		
	
  pop, multiple orders to hit 50$ and get free shipping


----------



## kenstogie (Oct 29, 2013)

I hadn't heard but could certainly check. That would stink the 601's are great.  I usually hit up the bid aka the devil site. You have to be careful not to order to much though. it'll fill up that humidor quick!


Just noticed......That's funny  "the art of buying habanos online"  LOL


----------



## kenstogie (Oct 29, 2013)

so my stove was running rich (black soot on the window and inside burn chamber) on 1 with the pellets I am using and I dropped the LFF (low fuel feed?) To 4 from 5 as it was also  leaving some unburned/partially burned pellets at the bottom of my burn pot and clogging the air holes.....which made it burn a little richer and clogged more holes etc.

  I took out my burn pot and gave it a clean dropped it back in and hit start but it never lit up. I pushed the burn pot back as far as it could go and it did fire up.  I guess the point is that position matters or maybe my igniter is a little to far back too. Easy adjustment if I care to do it.  
 I also put in the brick fire board (?)  while I was in there and I didn't think it would matter but it does look nice so I am glad mike sent it ,   thanks Mike.   I cant believe how much heat this thing throws AND how much less in pellets it burns, its pretty awesome.


----------



## mchasal (Oct 29, 2013)

Did you find the handle or is it MIA?


----------



## stoveguy2esw (Oct 30, 2013)

its on its way to him


----------



## kenstogie (Oct 30, 2013)

It was not there, but before I even had a chance to look Mike sent one out to me, which was pretty g.d. cool.   

Dropping to 4 from 5 on the LFF cleaned up the burn nicely though it did cool it down a touch too.  I may try returning the LFF to 5 and increasing the LBA (low burn air) to 6.  My stock settings are 5-5-1.  

I would imagine that with each brand of pellets settings *may* be different, not a lot but a little anyway.


----------



## mchasal (Oct 30, 2013)

kenstogie said:


> Dropping to 4 from 5 on the LFF cleaned up the burn nicely though it did cool it down a touch too.  I may try returning the LFF to 5 and increasing the LBA (low burn air) to 6.  My stock settings are 5-5-1.



Hmm, mine are (and Mike confirmed them upthread) 4-4-1


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## kenstogie (Oct 30, 2013)

That's kinda strange but as long as both our stoves are working good I guess.


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## mchasal (Oct 30, 2013)

kenstogie said:


> That's kinda strange but as long as both our stoves are working good I guess.



Just wondering if you should try 4-4-1 and see how that burns for you. Or did you do that already?


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## kenstogie (Oct 30, 2013)

Yea I was wondering that myself.  I will give it a shot and see how it goes. I am kinda glad it's not burning with that black soot. That $h!$$ gets on everything.   Couldn't hurt to give it a go soooo....


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## kenstogie (Oct 31, 2013)

FWIW 4 4 1 burned a little rich and dirty, which may be fine for my dates but not my pellet stove so back to 4 5 1.


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## mchasal (Nov 4, 2013)

Ok, stupid question time. Is there a way to "wake up" the display? If I hit On, it goes to startup mode, if I hit one of the up/down buttons it changes that setting. Maybe I'm a little OCD but sometimes I want to check what settings are active without changing anything. I suppose room fan down will usually not change anything, so if there's nothing else I'll just go with that.


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## stoveguy2esw (Nov 5, 2013)

push one of the bottom buttons, al that will do is display the setting for the bottom button, but the hr and bs settings will display after that


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## btbeam (Jan 8, 2014)

I am interested in getting an ip as well. How is it doing in this miserable cold we are currently having?


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## mchasal (Jan 9, 2014)

btbeam said:


> I am interested in getting an ip as well. How is it doing in this miserable cold we are currently having?



Well, mine's been running gangbusters with no problems at all. Puts out lots of heat, but I've still needed to kick on the heat upstairs on a couple of the coldest nights to keep it warmish. I have the thermostat up there at 63. Upside is that it runs noticeably cleaner with less ash when it's running full bore most of the day as opposed to when it idles more on the thermostat.

While I'm sad that I had to burn some dinos to keep up, it's actually been heating the whole house (2000sf 2 story cape) more effectively than I anticipated. With the rated output I was expecting to have to run the upstairs heat more often than I've needed to.


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## kenstogie (Jan 9, 2014)

Mine has been doing well........ However it was running with a lazy flame and filling the burn pot with pellets..... turns out the heat exchanger can get "clogged"  

 The fix? 

Take off the fake brick and bang the living #@#&^&^ out of it with a "framing hammer" .   That's according to englander too. 

on a side note it has basically heated my house which is a two story split level ranch app 2100sf.


(I edited this to read what I typed originally not what that darn auto correct did on my phone.)


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## Countryboymo (Jan 9, 2014)

HOLY cow.  I just looked them up.  I am selling my castile and getting one.


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## doghouse (Jan 9, 2014)

Countryboymo said:


> HOLY cow.  I just looked them up.  I am selling my castile and getting one.


 
Keep the Castile.  Nothing like 2 pellet stoves.


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## Dustin (Feb 9, 2014)

More photos please! Getting real close to pulling the trigger on one of these... Let's see em burning


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## kenstogie (Feb 9, 2014)

Its a taller unit...... i didnt realize how high when i bought it and the heat exchanger (on mine anyway) needs to be "tapped" on semi regular.basis BUT......the thing heats like a beast is very efficient and heats my house.  Its a great unit!


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## Dustin (Feb 9, 2014)

kenstogie said:


> Its a taller unit...... i didnt realize how high when i bought it and the heat exchanger (on mine anyway) needs to be "tapped" on semi regular.basis BUT......the thing heats like a beast is very efficient and heats my house.  Its a great unit!




I can't find this measurement online..

How far from the floor is the flu exit and oak ? 

Also, this will be installed infront of a fireplace replacing a wood stove. Also curious if an OAK can be routed through the floor.. Unfortunately I don't have an outside wall to work with. Are you running an OAK on yours? 

Thanks!


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## mchasal (Feb 9, 2014)

Dustin said:


> I can't find this measurement online..
> 
> How far from the floor is the flu exit and oak ?
> 
> ...



Those measurements are on page 5 of the manual: http://englanderstoves.com/manuals/25-IP.pdf

I've read of OAKs being routed into a basement, but the manual doesn't state whether that's ok or not.  I think it is possible during a power outage for the flow of exhaust to reverse, so you don't want to possibly dump that into your basement.

Englander does require the OAK, though I don't know all the reasons for it. Maybe some more details of your install would help with a solution?


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## Dustin (Feb 9, 2014)

The stove will be replacing a current wood stove. 

The chimney is lined with a 6 inch stainless rigid liner. I plan to adapt the pellet stove to this liner using the duravent adapter. 

The stove is located in front of the fireplace, in the center of the room. I don't really have anywhere to go with an OAK except up, or down. Up, would be impossible... 

Here is a photo to help out.. Sorry for the hijack, if this needs it's own thread lemme know


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## mithesaint (Feb 9, 2014)

kenstogie said:


> Mine has been doing well........ However it was running with a lazy flame and filling the burn pot with pellets..... turns out the heat exchanger can get "clogged"
> 
> The fix?
> 
> ...



I use my "dead blow" hammer.  Slightly heavier, and more importantly, MUCH quieter.  Does a nice job of getting the ash to let loose.


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## PoolGuyinCT (Feb 9, 2014)

kenstogie said:


> Its a taller unit...... i didnt realize how high when i bought it and the heat exchanger (on mine anyway) needs to be "tapped" on semi regular.basis BUT......the thing heats like a beast is very efficient and heats my house.  Its a great unit!



Nice signature ken, Sure your not heating your house with radiant cigar heat?
Just put down a fuente anejo, a treat!


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## mchasal (Feb 10, 2014)

Dustin said:


> The stove will be replacing a current wood stove.
> 
> The chimney is lined with a 6 inch stainless rigid liner. I plan to adapt the pellet stove to this liner using the duravent adapter.
> 
> The stove is located in front of the fireplace, in the center of the room. I don't really have anywhere to go with an OAK except up, or down. Up, would be impossible...



Starting a new thread would probably get more eyes on this. You're not dealing with a problem specific to this stove, so many who have the expertise may not be looking in here. 

Kinda beyond my comfort zone here, I'm assuming that this whole hearth is not on an exterior wall. Here' a couple of things to think about:

What's below the stove? Can you go down and then out a side wall? You'd probably need to go with something of a larger diameter if it's goes any distance, but it doesn't need to be vent pipe that's $20 a foot. 
I know you said up is impossible, but is there a specific reason? Is there space between the liner and the chimney that an air intake could be snaked through? Or another unused flue? I know it's probably a pain, but just want to not rule out all the options.


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## kenstogie (Feb 26, 2014)

For those of you with the 55-TRPIP. .... *do you find that tapping on the heat exchanger pretty much a necessary maintenance procedure?* Cuz I sure do!     For me its once every 2 weeks. So much so I have removed the fake brick.    

Came home after work yesterday to find my burn pot, ash pan and chute too () filled with smoldering pellets the ones that were mounding in the burn pot were cherry red. 

Shut it down, let it cool, clean out every darn nook and cranny tap (aka bang) on the heat exchanger (the part that surrounds the chute exit hole) and voila!  it works perfectly again.  Once a month I take off the heat exchanger cleaning plates and vacuum away.

I also find that I need to do it before I need to do it.... if that makes sense.


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## mchasal (Feb 26, 2014)

I have not had that issue. My cleaning routine at this point is:

Daily: Stir up the burn pot without shutdown
Weekly: Shutdown and remove ash, scrape burnpot, remove baffle and clean behind/above it.
Monthly: Weekly+remove heat exchanger plates and suck out ash
Bi-Monthly: Monthly+clean vent pipe.
That's been working well, though the reduction of the daily cleaning is new. The last time I did the monthly I banged on the back a bit, but didn't get anything out.
I'm also clean out of pellets, so looks like I'm done experimenting for the year.

I do get some buildup of ash in the pot, the daily stirring helps to break it up and eject it, but it still builds up after a while. I don't think I could go too much longer than a week without a shutdown before that would start to be a problem.

I also wonder about running without the firebrick. Isn't that providing some heat protection to the thin steel behind it? I would hate to see you erode the back of the firebox because of that.


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## kenstogie (Feb 27, 2014)

I do about the same give or take but of course i bang on the heat exchanger.  I didn't know anyone else stirred up the burn pot with out shutting down. I am waiting for the fireproof gloves from Harbor Frieght because my thick leather ones are hurting after this winter. 

I am going to check out/figure out the Spring maintenance thing here shortly.


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## metalsped (Oct 8, 2014)

Long term bump. How has the 25-IP fared and are you still happy with it?


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## kenstogie (Oct 8, 2014)

metalsped said:


> Long term bump. How has the 25-IP fared and are you still happy with it?


It's alittle bit more tempermental than the 25 series i have had but you are rewarded with alot more heat... last year was one of the colder winters i have seen too.


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## metalsped (Oct 8, 2014)

In what regard is it more tempermental? It is a stove that I am considering purchasing, so your complete thoughts (good and bad) are definitely appreciated.


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## kenstogie (Oct 8, 2014)

With the 25 ot would just keep burning with the 55 the maintenance is mucho importiento or performance suffers.


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## mchasal (Dec 1, 2014)

Hey @kenstogie 

Hope all is well with you. I'm curious how your fiberboard panel is holding up? Mine got pretty bad in the middle of the season last year, basically the surface started flaking off. Englander replaced it under warranty with no problem but the new one is starting to show signs of the same issue. I'm wondering if there's something specific going on in my stove that's causing it or what. If this is going to be a 1 year use item, I might look at some alternative since they are $60 a pop.


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## kenstogie (Dec 1, 2014)

To get at the heat exchanger access ports you have to remove it so I just gave up on that in about two months, in addition they never sent me the screw that was needed for it so i had to improvise and it wasn't an absolute perfect fit.


Have you had to bang on the heat exchanger to clear it out?  if not it can make a HUUUUGE difference.   The eglander guy said he did it once a month if I remember correctly.


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## UMainah (Dec 1, 2014)

mchasal said:


> Hey @kenstogie
> 
> Hope all is well with you. I'm curious how your fiberboard panel is holding up? Mine got pretty bad in the middle of the season last year, basically the surface started flaking off. Englander replaced it under warranty with no problem but the new one is starting to show signs of the same issue. I'm wondering if there's something specific going on in my stove that's causing it or what. If this is going to be a 1 year use item, I might look at some alternative since they are $60 a pop.


Its not specific to you. I just noticed the same thing has happened to my parent's IP.


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## mchasal (Dec 1, 2014)

kenstogie said:


> To get at the heat exchanger access ports you have to remove it so I just gave up on that in about two months, in addition they never sent me the screw that was needed for it so i had to improvise and it wasn't an absolute perfect fit.
> 
> 
> Have you had to bang on the heat exchanger to clear it out?  if not it can make a HUUUUGE difference.   The eglander guy said he did it once a month if I remember correctly.



Yes, I do that with my monthly cleaning. Curious what your improvisation was? I assume it's necessary to have some sort of protection there and it's not just for looks. I wish it was just some bracket for the thinner fire bricks. Not sure if that could be retrofitted since the thinnest I've seen are 1 1/4" and that's way thicker than the fiberboard. Not sure if they would interfere. 



UMainah said:


> Its not specific to you. I just noticed the same thing has happened to my parent's IP.



Thanks for the reassurance. Have they done anything about it? Mine never got to the point where it was worn out completely, but that's only because I had the warranty on it. I'll let this one go much further before I do anything about it. 

Thinking of either trying the fire brick thing, or making a mold for casting replacements out of refractory cement.


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## kenstogie (Dec 1, 2014)

mchasal said:


> Yes, I do that with my monthly cleaning. Curious what your improvisation was? I assume it's necessary to have some sort of protection there and it's not just for looks. I wish it was just some bracket for the thinner fire bricks. Not sure if that could be retrofitted since the thinnest I've seen are 1 1/4" and that's way thicker than the fiberboard. Not sure if they would interfere.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


  I simply took it off and have left it off not a really well thought out part of the stove IMHO.  It was fine last year and so far this year... I'd be interested in seeing what Englander says...


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## mchasal (Dec 1, 2014)

kenstogie said:


> I simply took it off and have left it off not a really well thought out part of the stove IMHO.  It was fine last year and so far this year... I'd be interested in seeing what Englander says...



Yeah, I'd be interested to hear what @stoveguy2esw has to say. If it's really just decorative, I'd pull it out too. I wouldn't have even bothered them for a warranty replacement if that were true and I had known.


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## kmapsrule (Dec 2, 2014)

kenstogie said:


> I simply took it off and have left it off not a really well thought out part of the stove IMHO.  It was fine last year and so far this year... I'd be interested in seeing what Englander says...


 Mine Broke after a couple of months, and I have been running without it as well, if it turns out its a needed thing, then I will get some refractory cement mix and make one with a wire mesh in it so it won't come apart but so far other than more surface area to have to brush off during cleaning I haven't seen any difference in operation.


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## mithesaint (Dec 3, 2014)

The CPM has the same fiberboard.  As far as I know, it's for looks only.  I've been running without mine for well over a year now.  It looked nice, but I couldn't justify $60 for something that I was going to break again.  I forget it was even there sometimes, till I see a pic of a stove that still has it.


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## kenstogie (Jan 5, 2015)

So i am away for an army school and the bolt that holds the ash pan latch assembly to the ash pan tray is stripped!  So when youtry to close it it just basically falls apart (pulls through the ash pan front/face) and does not make a tight seal.  Any suggestions? I would tap out a smaller sized thread IF i were home but i am states away and although the GF if pretty handy it is beyond her capablities I fear.


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## kmapsrule (Jan 5, 2015)

kenstogie said:


> So i am away for an army school and the bolt that holds the ash pan latch assembly to the ash pan tray is stripped!  So when youtry to close it it just basically falls apart (pulls through the ash pan front/face) and does not make a tight seal.  Any suggestions? I would tap out a smaller sized thread IF i were home but i am states away and although the GF if pretty handy it is beyond her capablities I fear.



Do you have any of the foil tape used for the seams of the exhaust pipe lying around? Could use that to temporarily seal the bolt hole and hold the drawer shut tight till you can replace the bolt?


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## kenstogie (Jan 5, 2015)

kmapsrule said:


> Do you have any of the foil tape used for the seams of the exhaust pipe lying around? Could use that to temporarily seal the bolt hole and hold the drawer shut tight till you can replace the bolt?


Good idea!  Thanks!


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## mchasal (Jan 5, 2015)

On mine, and as illustrated in the manual snap below, that isn't a tapped hole, it's just a through hole on the ash pan and a nut on the back of the latch shaft. 




So if there's anything stripped out, it should be an easily replaceable nut. I'd guess that they're a standard thread and a trip to Orange or Blue should find something suitable. Or are you saying the actual shaft is stripped out? Or is yours a different setup? Or some other way that I'm wrong that I haven't thought of?


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## kenstogie (Jan 6, 2015)

mchasal said:


> On mine, and as illustrated in the manual snap below, that isn't a tapped hole, it's just a through hole on the ash pan and a nut on the back of the latch shaft.
> View attachment 149636
> 
> 
> So if there's anything stripped out, it should be an easily replaceable nut. I'd guess that they're a standard thread and a trip to Orange or Blue should find something suitable. Or are you saying the actual shaft is stripped out? Or is yours a different setup? Or some other way that I'm wrong that I haven't thought of?


Its the same set up and unfortunately is the shaft that goes through the front face of the ash pan.


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## mchasal (Jan 6, 2015)

Ug, that sucks. Guess that needs to be replaced. But if it's that first nut inside the plate that's not holding, shouldn't it still hold the drawer closed? Yes it will fall out when you open it, but once you jiggle it and get it in the right position, the latch paddle against the inside of the chassis and the tension should hold it in, no? When latched, that nut is essentially not doing anything. I'm only questioning since you're not around and may not be getting a full picture of what's happening. Feel free to tell me to shut up.


ETA: Another thought, the hopper lid latch seems quite similar, I wonder if that could be cannibalized for parts or something. A brick on the hopper lid should keep it closed even without the latch for the short term.


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## Tails1 (Dec 10, 2016)

Handy thread. I too have one of these stoves and this is my first winter with it. It was a learning curve with it however now that I have it dialed in to burn properly it does the job well. I clean it only once a week and it uses maybe a bag of pellets every two days in this weather. I have it running with a remote thermostat. Keeps the house at 24c during the day and 21c at night.


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## Lake Girl (Dec 10, 2016)

Searching the forum will give you the full range of options tried, what works, what doesn't!  Enjoy...


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## kenstogie (Dec 11, 2016)

Tails1 said:


> Handy thread. I too have one of these stoves and this is my first winter with it. It was a learning curve with it however now that I have it dialed in to burn properly it does the job well. I clean it only once a week and it uses maybe a bag of pellets every two days in this weather. I have it running with a remote thermostat. Keeps the house at 24c during the day and 21c at night.


yup it's a good stove and kicks some heat.....knowijg whst i know now if i just bouht the stove...i would go over it more thoroughly....as i had a few issues with the assembly....

-the allen set screws for the auger assembly were loose from factory and are frankly to small for the set up but tapping out new holes and you are good to go
-no door handle (one was sent to me though)
-no faux brick (ditto as avbove)
-rust inside (which is no big deal but not very aesthetically pleasing)
-the ash pan assembly stripped out but i jb welded it and all it good


the biggest thing though was that the auger assembly was not caulked properly and you could see light coming from the fire box!   i caulked it properly and it made a HUGE difference......i never wouldve noticed had i not been looked under the hood as it was burning...this made for the unit to pull air from the room and out the exhaust

great stove works great throws heat... could use some qc though at the factory....


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## Tails1 (Dec 11, 2016)

kenstogie said:


> ...the biggest thing though was that the auger assembly was not caulked properly and you could see light coming from the fire box!   i caulked it properly and it made a HUGE difference......i never wouldve noticed had i not been looked under the hood as it was burning...this made for the unit to pull air from the room and out the exhaust
> 
> great stove works great throws heat... could use some qc though at the factory....



Where exactly would I look to see if this is the case with mine? Was it causing a lazy flame/burn issues? I did find a few assembly issues with mine as well, like the door slowly unlatching from heating and cooling to the point is was falling off and although it is burning properly I still want to make sure. That sounds alarming.

I agree about the qc from the factory. Mine was missing the burn pot from factory and naive me I fired the stove without it, talk about dirty burn lol. I have learned much since then thanks to this board. Need to send the mods a pm if the host of this site takes donations.


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## kenstogie (Dec 11, 2016)

pardon my messy caulk job.....  the caulk the factory uses is black (i believe) i only had red so you can clearly see where it was redone......of course use high heat caulk....also the ingnitor is back there nearby and will burn you if it has been on  recently.....  i am 99% all of my burn issues were ultimately caused by that....lazy burn mostly on lower settings. love the stove but whoever set up my stove should be looking for a new line of work.....


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## Tails1 (Dec 11, 2016)

kenstogie said:


> pardon my messy caulk job.....  the caulk the factory uses is black (i believe) i only had red so you can clearly see where it was redone......of course use high heat caulk....also the ingnitor is back there nearby and will burn you if it has been on  recently.....  i am 99% all of my burn issues were ultimately caused by that....lazy burn mostly on lower settings. love the stove but whoever set up my stove should be looking for a new line of work.....
> View attachment 190051



Thank you for that, I will have a look at mine maybe tomorrow.


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## Tails1 (Dec 13, 2016)

Tails1 said:


> Thank you for that, I will have a look at mine maybe tomorrow.



I checked mine and yes it is caulked but they didn't do a good job, there are huge globs and spots that were missed.They used black silicone. I have no trouble with stove performance right now however come time for spring cleaning I will scrape that old stuff off and redo it.


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## kenstogie (Mar 31, 2017)

For those who are wondering what's going on in the exhaust / heat exchanger area.... I took a boroscope/camera and fed it back there... it's not the best video quality,  You'll see the clean out ports and the round exhaust port on top that feed into the heat exchanger and then the exhaust/combustion fan.


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## WoodPorn (Mar 31, 2017)

Great Idea Kenstogie.........I watched about 30 seconds of it, I'd need some dramamine to continue though.


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## Tails1 (Jan 6, 2018)

Has anyone ever found any problems by removing that fiberboard on the back wall of the fire box? Mine is deteriorated and if I can just remove it and leave it out I will.


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## Ssyko (Jan 6, 2018)

Tails1 said:


> Has anyone ever found any problems by removing that fiberboard on the back wall of the fire box? Mine is deteriorated and if I can just remove it and leave it out I will.



BLASPHAMY:  Yes mine has been gone for a year. does it hurt anything? not yet in my case. but it does not run 24/7 maybe 4-5 hrs a weekend in my office


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## kenstogie (Jan 6, 2018)

According to manufacturer via the customer serice phone.... the fire brick has to be there to shield the back wall from the excessive heat.....fwiw I didn't have it for 2 years


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## Tails1 (Jan 6, 2018)

I wonder if that fiberboard material can be bought in blank sheets and I could make my own...


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## kenstogie (Jan 7, 2018)

Good question... it cost to damn much from englander like almost everythong does .......gaskets I make from lyotherm or liotherm which I think is just ceramic fiber....


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## Tails1 (Jan 7, 2018)

I had read a thread on here few years back someone had made their own using refractory cement, I can't find it now. Hopefully they see this thread.


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## Ssyko (Jan 7, 2018)

http://www.woodstoves-fireplaces.co...UlScxvUrsyohJN-VyrACFGN8WCWUbOC8aAgFZEALw_wcB


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## kenstogie (Jan 7, 2018)

here's the description for some home depot rutland refractory cement seems like it would work  costs about $45 and i bet you could do 2 or 3 of them with it.....

cracks, and holes in fireplace masonry are no problem for Rutland Castable Refractory Cement. Just add water to the dry mix, apply and set - cement dries as hard as fire brick. Relax and enjoy your newly-restored fire pit - you can even use this product to create solid stone beds or to cast stunning custom shapes.


Product may be used outdoors, a key difference from regular refractory cement
Does not require heat to cure and may be painted when dry; minimum 24 hour dry time
Approximate coverage: 25 lbs. casts a block 12 in. x 24 in. x 1-1/2 in.
Rated to withstand temperatures up to 2200°F
Tub contains 25 lbs.
Best for medium to large cracks; for minor cracks, use Rutland fireplace mortar


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## kenstogie (Jan 7, 2018)

i just used this...cost about 35...
*US Stove 891139 Herringbone Ceramic Brick*
which you have to cut out the square where the chute goes...it doesn't cover all of the back wall but most of it....


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## Tails1 (Jan 7, 2018)

I think I will try the refractory cement but would like to hear from someone who has already tried this first. 

I found this https://www.fire-parts.ca/products/ceramic-fiber-paper-gasket-sheet which should work to make gaskets from, what do you think?


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## Tails1 (Jan 7, 2018)

kenstogie said:


> i just used this...cost about 35...
> *US Stove 891139 Herringbone Ceramic Brick*
> which you have to cut out the square where the chute goes...it doesn't cover all of the back wall but most of it....



35$ is better than 100 lol


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## kenstogie (Jan 7, 2018)

Tails1 said:


> I think I will try the refractory cement but would like to hear from someone who has already tried this first.
> 
> I found this https://www.fire-parts.ca/products/ceramic-fiber-paper-gasket-sheet which should work to make gaskets from, what do you think?


yup i bet that'd work....shipping is 8 bucks on the states whether yo buy1 or 3......


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