# Cold air rising from my open stairs to the basement?



## michiganwinters (Jan 27, 2009)

I really am stumped......Im not understanding how I have cold air rushing up the stairs from the basement.  My PE summit is installed in my upstairs living room.  We heat the upstairs to around 75 and do not heat the basement.  The stairs to the basement are in the living room....and its 2 4ft walls in our livingroom and the stairs go down (drywalled all the way down to the basement floor) with a door.  Now the door has to be cracked so my cat can do his thing down there.  You wouldnt believe the amount of cold air that rushes UP the stairs.  You can really only feel it from the knees down.  My ceiling fan in the livingroom above the stove is set in reverse (sucking air up).  Any ideas???  Doesnt this go against the laws of heat and gravity??


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## JustWood (Jan 27, 2009)

Try reversing your fan and see what happens.


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## edthedawg (Jan 27, 2009)

Could be lots of things - get ready for the barrage 

If you crack the upstairs outside door or a living room window open - does it stop the draft?

Think of it this way - something must be backfilling that air that is leaving the basement.  What is open down there to encourage air entry?

And finally - I presume you do not have any OAK for the Summit?


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## michiganwinters (Jan 27, 2009)

I will try those few things.  And actually my whole supply is nice dry 1.5yr seasoned red, white and black oak....its all I burn.  I have an air intake that goes into the mechanical room that is required by code for the powervent furnace and waterheater.  I just dont understand why that air is being sucked up the stairs.  I have the cold air supply kit for the summit so I wouldnt think that it is pulling anything?


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## BrotherBart (Jan 27, 2009)

When you figure it out let me know. I have had the same problem for years. I ended up putting a weatherstrip on the door this year and installing a pet door. When my office was down there it wasn't a problem because I burned a stove on both floors but this year I moved to the first floor to save wood and the cold draft from below started to flow.

And yes, I sealed off the flue for the basement stove. There are a bunch of air leaks down there somewhere.


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## edthedawg (Jan 27, 2009)

well it could be a mix of two thermodynamic fundamentals:

1 - cold air will move toward heat

2 - warm air rises

Thinking about these, you have a cold basement and heated space upstairs.  Do you have leaky windows and/or marginal insulation above that main floor?  Could you essentially be drafting chimney-like w/ your warm air exiting the top of the house, and creating draft into the basement that way?  Your cold basement air will be motivated to move toward the heated upstairs regardless - but it still feels like a basement draft issue primarily.


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## Wet1 (Jan 27, 2009)

BrotherBart said:
			
		

> When you figure it out let me know. I have had the same problem for years. I ended up putting a weatherstrip on the door this year and installing a pet door. When my office was down there it wasn't a problem because I burned a stove on both floors but this year I moved to the first floor to save wood and the cold draft from below started to flow.
> 
> And yes, I sealed off the flue for the basement stove. There are a bunch of air leaks down there somewhere.


Same here.  I know I have two OAK's on my unused boilers, but I suspect I have other leaks as well.   When our stove is not burning in the basement, the cool air rushes up at an alarming rate.  I installed a pet door this year and we've also been placing a door sock at the base of the door (it has a large gap under it that weatherstripping would not seal well).  This has made a big difference, but it still amazes me how forcefully that cold air wants to come up.


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## woodgeek (Jan 27, 2009)

I agree with Ed.  Your whole heated house is a warm chimney relative to the outside.  If you've got some air leakage to the outside in your basement and another opening upstairs (like an attic trapdoor) then outside air will infiltrate the basement and inside air will exit the attic.  Net effect...basement air will rise inside your house.  It's not violating physics, its rising because its warmer than the outside air!  The fact that you feel it knees down means its creeping along the first floor (it would be really weird if it flowed over the ceiling).

Solution: Either cool your basement and house to below outside temps--or find and seal some major points of air infiltration (some of which might be upstairs).


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## BrotherBart (Jan 27, 2009)

I suspect the bathroom exhaust fan vents the most because last year I went outside with a flashlight to check chimney smoke on a goofy burning load and a column of steam was rising from one of the vent pipes on the roof. And no, we hadn't had Mexican food for dinner that night.  :coolsmirk:


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## snowtime (Jan 27, 2009)

Ok boys I have some experience with this. We have a unheated basement full of preps. We keep the basement around 40F in the winter and never have any cold air come upstairs. Our stairs are more open than most and the cold air is a layer that you can feel on the stairs 1/2 hot 1/2 cold anotherwords no exchange. What is happening is you have air leaks in the upper floors and your house is making up the air from the basement. You need to find all the leaks now as its much easier than in summer. The leaks upstairs are the important ones. Once you stop the air from leaving the warm air spaces the cold will stay down in the basement. Besides doors, windows you should check all vents. Maybe you have a drier exhaust stuck open maybe your stove exhaust fan is the source? Good luck


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## velvetfoot (Jan 27, 2009)

I put a kitty door in the wall by the door which worked out great.
She goes through it to the first step.
No hole in door, kitty door seals drafts.


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## Henz (Jan 27, 2009)

yup, cold air moves to the warm air period..the only and I mean only thing you can do is shut the door..Try putting in a doggy door with a flap for the cat or hell, maybe you need a new pair of slippers/?????????? bada ching!


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## thenorth (Jan 27, 2009)

The second law of thermodynamics states that heat moves toward cold.
Therefore, one can assume that a lot of HOT air is leaving the house in the upper levels, and the ingress of cold air from the basement is only replacing the hot air that was lost to the outside of the house....
my 2c

John


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## Henz (Jan 28, 2009)

huh, beats me. the only thing that I know is that when I  run my hand say next to a light switch I can feel constant cold draft. Cold goes to heat


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## edthedawg (Jan 28, 2009)

this has me thinking we're all right...  cold goes to heat but only when it's pulled there...  ...by the heat moving toward the cold.  So that warm air rising up, exiting the roof and upstairs windows, gaps, cracks, etc...  that's the motivating force to "pull" the cold air up from the basement.

kinda right, eh?


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## BrotherBart (Jan 28, 2009)

There is no such thing as cold. Only an absence of heat.

That ought to get things rolling.  :coolgrin:


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## PunKid8888 (Jan 28, 2009)

BrotherBart said:
			
		

> There is no such thing as cold. Only an absence of heat.



Yup, you beat me too it.

Also everything is trying to be in equilibrium.  Temp, pressure, humidity, density, they are all try to equalize in your house.  If you have a passage way to the basement or out through the attic then now your house is trying to equalize with the basement and the attic.  So best advice is to seal it up, top and bottom.


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