# Kuuma VF100 arrived



## Monaco (Oct 14, 2015)

It's big. It's gonna have to sit there until Sunday when I can get a few helping muscular hands.

Been looking at my space as I prep for installation. It's going to be a little tight in this old house and will requite a custom plenum for sure.


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## STIHLY DAN (Oct 14, 2015)

You buy the Cadillac of wood furnaces and the 1st thing you do is leave it outside for 4 days under a pine tree? I may have to come and replace it with a hot blast! That's just wrong. Would you buy a new computer and leave it outside? NO KUMMA FOR YOU 1 YEAR! Great purchase. Poor handling.


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## Monaco (Oct 15, 2015)

Haha. I have no choice. So far no rain 
It is wrapped up very tightly.

oh, and that Oak is protecting it from the pine


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## cityboy172 (Oct 15, 2015)

That's nice. Looking forward to seeing the progress. What area of the state are you in? I'm kicking around the idea of putting one in and ditching my boiler for one.


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## jebatty (Oct 15, 2015)

I had the privilege of visiting the Kuuma factory in Tower, MN, a couple of years ago and got a tour by the owner. This factory is all business. While I never have had personal experience operating and using a Kuuma, all reports I have seen are very positive. I will await with anticipation your report.


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## Monaco (Oct 15, 2015)

cityboy172 said:


> That's nice. Looking forward to seeing the progress. What area of the state are you in? I'm kicking around the idea of putting one in and ditching my boiler for one.



Indiana. basically single-digit winter temps. I'll be thrilled if I burn a rick/week... but we'll see.

Right now my tricky part is getting a big custom plenum made, I speak to a metalworker on Monday. This old house doesn't have a lot of room in the basement, so I can't position the furnace directly under the duct.


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## cityboy172 (Oct 15, 2015)

Monaco said:


> Indiana. basically single-digit winter temps. I'll be thrilled if I burn a rick/week... but we'll see.
> 
> Right now my tricky part is getting a big custom plenum made, I speak to a metalworker on Monday. This old house doesn't have a lot of room in the basement, so I can't position the furnace directly under the duct.



Sounds like we're almost neighbors. I'm Laporte county. At least it looks like you have some good wind shelter.


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## Monaco (Oct 16, 2015)

cityboy172 said:


> Sounds like we're almost neighbors. I'm Laporte county. At least it looks like you have some good wind shelter.



You're way up there! I'm down south-central. I bet you get some serious weather up there?


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## cityboy172 (Oct 16, 2015)

Monaco said:


> You're way up there! I'm down south-central. I bet you get some serious weather up there?




It keeps life interesting some days.


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## Monaco (Oct 19, 2015)

Got the furnace indoors. Been looking over the parts and instructions, seems fairly well-organized, but would benefit from more of a step-by-step approach with more and better illustrations.

I'm tight on space and the house ductwork is nowhere as large as the output on the furnace.  So I'm going to need a custom plenum that reduces the 24x24" square down to something  more like 16x16". Hoping to keep the most cubic inches in there as possible.


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## STIHLY DAN (Oct 19, 2015)

Loading like that may be a head bumper. What about putting the furnace 90* Flue going strait to chimney with only 2 45'S and the ductwork coming off the unit going to the left? This will make it easier for the return as well.


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## Monaco (Oct 19, 2015)

STIHLY DAN said:


> Loading like that may be a head bumper. What about putting the furnace 90* Flue going strait to chimney with only 2 45'S and the ductwork coming off the unit going to the left? This will make it easier for the return as well.


Yeah - after getting the furnace into place, wWe decided to slide it closer to the doorway like you suggest, allowing us a simple trapeziodal plenum like this:


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## Monaco (Oct 19, 2015)

I think I'm also going to put in a 3" pipe for fresh airflow. I'll run it thru the upper wall and down to exit near the furnace intake.


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## DaveH (Oct 20, 2015)

Monaco said:


> I think I'm also going to put in a 3" pipe for fresh airflow. I'll run it thru the upper wall and down to exit near the furnace intake.



Let me know how the fresh air turns out.  I had a HVAC guy think I was crazy for wanting to bring in outside air, even though a furnace is pulling cold air in from anywhere it can already.  He was concerned with bringing cold air in but after running the Kuuma the last couple weeks I realize it would have no problem quickly heating that cold air up.  

You've probably read a ton on here and the owner's manual is pretty specific but follow the advice as much as possible.  I just switched out a 90 degree elbow coming off the stove to a 45.  This will create a strong pull and eliminate smoke exiting the door when you fill up.  Its not a problem if the stove is hot or full of coals, but if you are just starting a fire with some kindling and are going to throw in some logs it should help.

Do you have an open floor plan? That would be ideal for this furnace I believe.  I wish I had one, instead of my colonial, but the Kuuma cranks plenty of heat, big ducts are important to spread it around.  Thats my next essential upgrade.  I've kept my house at 72 with outside low temps around 25 last weekend burning ash, maple and pine.


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## Monaco (Oct 20, 2015)

DaveH said:


> Let me know how the fresh air turns out.  I had a HVAC guy think I was crazy for wanting to bring in outside air, even though a furnace is pulling cold air in from anywhere it can already.  He was concerned with bringing cold air in but after running the Kuuma the last couple weeks I realize it would have no problem quickly heating that cold air up.
> 
> You've probably read a ton on here and the owner's manual is pretty specific but follow the advice as much as possible.  I just switched out a 90 degree elbow coming off the stove to a 45.  This will create a strong pull and eliminate smoke exiting the door when you fill up.  Its not a problem if the stove is hot or full of coals, but if you are just starting a fire with some kindling and are going to throw in some logs it should help.
> 
> Do you have an open floor plan? That would be ideal for this furnace I believe.  I wish I had one, instead of my colonial, but the Kuuma cranks plenty of heat, big ducts are important to spread it around.  Thats my next essential upgrade.  I've kept my house at 72 with outside low temps around 25 last weekend burning ash, maple and pine.



My floor plan is fairly open, but that's a great idea. Our future plans with this old place is to open it a little more and I feel better about that.

I'm not sure exactly if I can do 45 degree joints on the flue. It will be close. If I have to have a little bit of straight horizontal or vertical run, would it be better at the top near the exit or at the bottom near the furnace?

Mind posting pictures of your setup?

I just learned from Lamppa that I cannot extend the thermocouple wires going into the computer. This means I can't mount the computer onto a nearby wall instead of the side of the furnace (which will be 6" from a wall), and as a result I'll never be able to see the controls; except maybe with a small pocket mirror.


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## jebatty (Oct 21, 2015)

Ask why the wires cannot be extended. I have successfully, and without any issue, extended wires for K-type thermocouples and for DS18b20 digital sensors. What type thermocouple is involved?


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## Monaco (Oct 21, 2015)

jebatty said:


> Ask why the wires cannot be extended. I have successfully, and without any issue, extended wires for K-type thermocouples and for DS18b20 digital sensors. What type thermocouple is involved?



They're high-temp wires...


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## brenndatomu (Oct 21, 2015)

jebatty said:


> Ask why the wires cannot be extended. I have successfully, and without any issue, extended wires for K-type thermocouples and for DS18b20 digital sensors. What type thermocouple is involved?





Monaco said:


> They're high-temp wires...


You can buy that wire on fleabay and others pretty cheap...high temp is no hurdle


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## Monaco (Oct 21, 2015)

I'm thinking now that I can just run the wires out the other side, I could drill a tiny new exit hole. The power wire can be easily extended. 

We'll see once I get it together, but right now it doesn't look like there's quite enough slack to get the control panel off the furnace and onto the wall.


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## STIHLY DAN (Oct 21, 2015)

Monaco said:


> I think I'm also going to put in a 3" pipe for fresh airflow. I'll run it thru the upper wall and down to exit near the furnace intake.



You do not want it to exit near the intake. You want to do a 180* turn at the floor then come up the wall and 90 just below the entrance to the outside. That way you only pull air in that's needed and not pour cold air in all the time.


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## Highbeam (Oct 21, 2015)

STIHLY DAN said:


> You do not want it to exit near the intake. You want to do a 180* turn at the floor then come up the wall and 90 just below the entrance to the outside. That way you only pull air in that's needed and not pour cold air in all the time.



I never understood that. If there is enough vacuum in the building to suck air through that tube then it will suck it regardless of the little 180* turn at the floor. Not unlike a curly Q straw, the bend doesn't stop flow.


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## maple1 (Oct 21, 2015)

I think it acts like a cold trap. The chimney draft will overcome it but if the fire dies & kills draft then the cold trap will prevent the outside cold from dropping in.

Kinda a reverse heat trap. Those stop ghost flows with bends.


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## STIHLY DAN (Oct 21, 2015)

What he said ^^^^ plus they run better burning warmer air.


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## Monaco (Oct 21, 2015)

STIHLY DAN said:


> What he said ^^^^


Been doing some research and I see some with a "U" that turns and goes back up a foot, but none so far that go back up to the inlet level... I'll keep looking


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## Monaco (Oct 21, 2015)

This page has three diagrams:
http://www.yukon-eagle.com/FURNACEACCESSORIES/FRESHAIRINTAKE/tabid/204/Default.aspx


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## brenndatomu (Oct 21, 2015)

Monaco said:


> This page has three diagrams:
> http://www.yukon-eagle.com/FURNACEACCESSORIES/FRESHAIRINTAKE/tabid/204/Default.aspx


The first example is just a bad idea, the other two are good, but both a variation of the same thing effectively


STIHLY DAN said:


> You do not want it to exit near the intake. You want to do a 180* turn at the floor then come up the wall and 90 just below the entrance to the outside. That way you only pull air in that's needed and not pour cold air in all the time.


I like this idea ^ ^ ^


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## Monaco (Oct 21, 2015)

brenndatomu said:


> The first example is just a bad idea, the other two are good, but both a variation of the same thing effectively
> 
> I like this idea ^ ^ ^


I like that idea too. I just dipped my toe into the OAK threads and wow.


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## DaveH (Oct 22, 2015)

Monaco said:


> My floor plan is fairly open, but that's a great idea. Our future plans with this old place is to open it a little more and I feel better about that.
> 
> I'm not sure exactly if I can do 45 degree joints on the flue. It will be close. If I have to have a little bit of straight horizontal or vertical run, would it be better at the top near the exit or at the bottom near the furnace?
> 
> ...



This is what I'm working with for the moment.  I'm going to try to 45 it into the wall when I get a chance.  I fought with the adjustable elbows enough last night.  I have a 30 plus foot chimney so I have plenty of pull.  

Could you mount a mirror on the wall to see the controls?  If you havent hooked it up, the damper system is not a set of three lights anymore, a number, 1-3 appears, along with a capital and lower case C.  This is important when first lighting the fire as the the furnace transitions from cold (C) to a 3 (then 2, 1, and c when it's in "pilot" mode and really cranking.)  Having a clear view of the display will save you from opening the door to check the fire, because if its at 1 or 2 you have have a strong fire.  Of course you can open the door and figure it out yourself, but the display lets you know what the computer is thinking.


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## Monaco (Oct 22, 2015)

Looks good! I'm not to the place where I've hooked up the fan or the flue yet. Before I can push it to the wall, I have to get electric sorted first. My chimney arrangement is similar, but mine makes twi quick 90 turns after going thru the wall.

The mirror is definitely a good option if the wires aren't quite long enough...


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## Monaco (Oct 22, 2015)

DaveH said:


> This is what I'm working with for the moment.  I'm going to try to 45 it into the wall when I get a chance.  I fought with the adjustable elbows enough last night.  I have a 30 plus foot chimney so I have plenty of pull.
> 
> Could you mount a mirror on the wall to see the controls?  If you havent hooked it up, the damper system is not a set of three lights anymore, a number, 1-3 appears, along with a capital and lower case C.  This is important when first lighting the fire as the the furnace transitions from cold (C) to a 3 (then 2, 1, and c when it's in "pilot" mode and really cranking.)  Having a clear view of the display will save you from opening the door to check the fire, because if its at 1 or 2 you have have a strong fire.  Of course you can open the door and figure it out yourself, but the display lets you know what the computer is thinking.
> 
> ...


I see the top of your automated intake is not covered. I was looking at that and it almost seemed like it should be, was wondering if I was missing a part but I see now it's all good!

Mind showing me a closeup of your transformer on the back?


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## Monaco (Oct 24, 2015)

DaveH or StihlyDan - can you show me what it looks like where the fan junction box is?

As you can see from these photos, I can't install the fan shroud, the junction box is mounted in the way. There's also the hole in the side of the fan shroud. Do I have to unbolt the junction box and move it?

This first picture is looking at the junction box from the inside of the fan shroud:



This picture is looking at it from the outside of the fan shroud:



EDIT: I see how it goes now - unbolts and turns outward. I did not think it would have been bolted to the outer shell. I think perhaps I should fill in the screw hole with high-temp silicone...


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## Monaco (Oct 29, 2015)

Got my custom plenum in today, and the fire bricks put in. Waiting on word from Lamppa to see if I can reposition the high limit controller to the other side and at an angle...

Was able to put the computer on the wall too, just barely! But now I'll be able to see the controls.


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## Monaco (Oct 29, 2015)

Now I just need to hook up the chimney.


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## JRHAWK9 (Oct 30, 2015)

If you read the manual it states to remove the junction box and rotate it 90°.  Once you get the blower motor box in place the junction box mounts to it.


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## brenndatomu (Oct 30, 2015)

Monaco said:


> EDIT: I see how it goes now - unbolts and turns outward. I did not think it would have been bolted to the outer shell. I think perhaps I should fill in the screw hole with high-temp silicone...


Not a big enough hole to worry about at all. It'll will just recirculate a _extremely small_ amount of air through the blower...


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## STIHLY DAN (Oct 30, 2015)

Be careful of blocking yourself or anyone else out of getting to the controls and wiring. If something needs to be worked on could be a pain. How close is that plenum to the wood?


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## Monaco (Oct 31, 2015)

STIHLY DAN said:


> Be careful of blocking yourself or anyone else out of getting to the controls and wiring. If something needs to be worked on could be a pain. How close is that plenum to the wood?


Yeah good point. We installed the high limit control on the opposite side for that reason


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## Monaco (Nov 1, 2015)

I made my first furnace burn last night. What everyone says is correct, there's no tinkering, just load and walk away. Repeated curious openings of the door just resulted in a smoky furnace room


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## STIHLY DAN (Nov 1, 2015)

Monaco said:


> I made my first furnace burn last night. What everyone says is correct, there's no tinkering, just load and walk away. Repeated curious openings of the door just resulted in a smoky furnace room



Should not have been any smoke coming out the door. Was this curiosity after 1st lite off?


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## Monaco (Nov 1, 2015)

STIHLY DAN said:


> Should not have been any smoke coming out the door. Was this curiosity after 1st lite off?


Yes. I altered the draft a bit (increased the setting) and that took care of most of the smoke from an open door. Do you get any smoke when opening the firebox door?


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## STIHLY DAN (Nov 1, 2015)

Monaco said:


> Yes. I altered the draft a bit (increased the setting) and that took care of most of the smoke from an open door. Do you get any smoke when opening the firebox door?



Never, unless its on start up of a cold unit and I open the door a bit early to be nosey.


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## Monaco (Nov 2, 2015)

Also:


STIHLY DAN said:


> Never, unless its on start up of a cold unit and I open the door a bit early to be nosey.



Mine smokes no matter what when the door gets about 3" open.


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## STIHLY DAN (Nov 2, 2015)

How is your draft? Inside the unit should be a negative, When the unit is warm/hot and you open the door air should rush INTO the unit. Not out.


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## brenndatomu (Nov 2, 2015)

Sounds like low draft.
Getting a cheap manometer like the Dwyer Mark II model 25 is a really good way to get (and keep) a handle on your draft situation.
What is your chimney like? I'm guessin that's it in the background of your first pic? Overall height, internal size, masonry or SS lined, internal or external to the house? (if it is not the one in the pic)
It may be a lot better after the weather gets colder too. Some chimneys struggle much over 40* weather


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## Monaco (Nov 3, 2015)

brenndatomu said:


> Sounds like low draft.
> Getting a cheap manometer like the Dwyer Mark II model 25 is a really good way to get (and keep) a handle on your draft situation.
> What is your chimney like? I'm guessin that's it in the background of your first pic? Overall height, internal size, masonry or SS lined, internal or external to the house? (if it is not the one in the pic)
> It may be a lot better after the weather gets colder too. Some chimneys struggle much over 40* weather



Actually I get almost no smoke when the fire is hot... But yeah it's warm and we're running it more or less because we're excited to try it out 

My chimney is insulated stainless 6" about 40' high (not the one in the picture.) There's an unavoidable horizontal 4' followed by two 90-degree angles, then up it goes. There's a spark arrestor at the top.


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## brenndatomu (Nov 3, 2015)

Monaco said:


> My chimney is insulated stainless 6" about 40' high (not the one in the picture.) There's an unavoidable horizontal 4' followed by two 90-degree angles, then up it goes.


A 4' horizontal run will make for smoke out the loading door for sure. Is it dead flat or were you able to do the minimum 1/4" per ft of rise? Guess that doesn't matter that much. With a 40' chimney I think it will perform much better once the weather gets cold. 
A really air tight house will make for a smokey reload too...


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## Monaco (Nov 3, 2015)

brenndatomu said:


> A 4' horizontal run will make for smoke out the loading door for sure. Is it dead flat or were you able to do the minimum 1/4" per ft of rise? Guess that doesn't matter that much. With a 40' chimney I think it will perform much better once the weather gets cold.
> A really air tight house will make for a smokey reload too...



There might be a slight slope in it... either way it's embedded in the old house. I may dig into the walls and see if I can lift one end of it.


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## STIHLY DAN (Nov 3, 2015)

Space may be in a negative also. combustion air along with the baro use a lot of air. I have a 4 inch fresh air inlet and At times of low pressure and cold furnace I need to crack the door during lite off.


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## Monaco (Nov 3, 2015)

Thanks Dan. I did set up a 3" fresh air input. I do crack the ashpan door during takeoff as Lamppa recommends; which does really start it off faster.


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## STIHLY DAN (Nov 3, 2015)

I meant outside door cracked not ash pan.


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## JRHAWK9 (Nov 4, 2015)

I have my cold furnace light up down to a science.  I can go from a cold furnace to putting a load in about 15-20 minutes.  I take one normal sized dry split of pine and split it into small splits,  Then I take those and break them in half so I have a good handful of 8-10" long or so dry kindling.  I place those on some crumpled up paper.  I then open my ash pan door and also tie my BD flap closed (using some thin wire) to give maximum draft and to limit the amount of fresh (cold) air being introduced into the chimney.  I then light the paper and wait.  I leave the ash pan door open and BD flap tied shut the whole time in order to get the furnace and flue up to temp ASAP.  I like to see 500° - 600° flue temps right at the collar of the furnace.  I do this as I believe getting the flue pipe and chimney up to temp ASAP helps with any possible creosote buildup which may develop in the stovepipe BD area  from doing multiple cold starts over time.  The sooner and hotter you can get the stovepipe the better.  The hotter you can get the firebox also makes for more efficiency once you load it.  Once I get the temps up and all the kindling has turned to coals I then load it.  I keep the ash pan door open and BD tied shut for maybe 5 minutes after loading to ensure a good fire has taken hold.  I then close the ashpan door and untie the BD to allow for normal operation.  This method seems to work great for me.  It gets the firebox and chimney up to temp as quickly as possible.


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## STIHLY DAN (Nov 6, 2015)

When I start from cold, not warm, but basement temp cold. I also will lite a small fire 1st, then come back 20 min latter to load. I only do this because I don't think its good to take cold steel to blazing hot real quick. If the furnace is out with no coals but the firebrick is warmer than my hand, I will load it up to whats needed for outside temp. Then lite with a torch from the ash pan (10 sec) then when the light turns on close the door and go.


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## laynes69 (Nov 6, 2015)

STIHLY DAN said:


> When I start from cold, not warm, but basement temp cold. I also will lite a small fire 1st, then come back 20 min latter to load. I only do this because I don't think its good to take cold steel to blazing hot real quick. If the furnace is out with no coals but the firebrick is warmer than my hand, I will load it up to whats needed for outside temp. Then lite with a torch from the ash pan (10 sec) then when the light turns on close the door and go.



I do the same thing for the same reason. I build a small fire to get a small coal bed, wait 20-30 minutes them load.


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## JRHAWK9 (Nov 7, 2015)

STIHLY DAN said:


> When I start from cold, not warm, but basement temp cold. I also will lite a small fire 1st, then come back 20 min latter to load. I only do this because I don't think its good to take cold steel to blazing hot real quick. If the furnace is out with no coals but the firebrick is warmer than my hand, I will load it up to whats needed for outside temp. Then lite with a torch from the ash pan (10 sec) then when the light turns on close the door and go.



That's how I did things last year, except if I didn't have any coals with a warmish furnace I still started it over again with paper/kindling.


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## garmford (Nov 8, 2015)

brenndatomu said:


> Sounds like low draft.
> Getting a cheap manometer like the Dwyer Mark II model 25 is a really good way to get (and keep) a handle on your draft situation.
> What is your chimney like? I'm guessin that's it in the background of your first pic? Overall height, internal size, masonry or SS lined, internal or external to the house? (if it is not the one in the pic)
> It may be a lot better after the weather gets colder too. Some chimneys struggle much over 40* weather



How do you guys use you manometer to check the draft? I do have a Dwyer mark II. It came with a rubber tube and I added a small copper tube, from a refrigerator ice maker kit, to the end of it so I could insert it into the chimney. On my old stove pipe I drilled a hole below the baro to insert the copper tube to get a reading. Is that the best way or can you just stick it into the baro opening? I just installed the stove pipe on my new kuuma and would like to know before I start drilling holes in the new stove pipe. Thanks!


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## JRHAWK9 (Nov 8, 2015)

I drilled a hole in the stovepipe so I can leave it connected all the time.  You want the manometer between the BD and outlet collar of the furnace.


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## velvetfoot (Nov 8, 2015)

If you use your manometer to adjust the draft on the baro damper, why would you need it attached all the time?  I can see drilling a hole if you were going to do other measurements.


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## JRHAWK9 (Nov 8, 2015)

Same reason I have a hole drilled in my stove pipe right at the collar for my Bacharach Tempoint thermometer and also have HVAC thermometers placed in the plenum, supply duct and also in the cold air return.  I like to monitor things like that.


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## velvetfoot (Nov 8, 2015)

But isn't the whole idea of the baro damper to keep draft below a certain level, based on its adjustment?  The other stuff you mentioned are things that change-I can see that.  Of course, it'd be cool to have it all on a data logger, but that's the subject for another thread.


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## JRHAWK9 (Nov 8, 2015)

For me it's just confirmation the BD is adjusted correctly and continues to stay adjusted correctly.


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## brenndatomu (Nov 8, 2015)

garmford said:


> How do you guys use you manometer to check the draft? I do have a Dwyer mark II. It came with a rubber tube and I added a small copper tube, from a refrigerator ice maker kit, to the end of it so I could insert it into the chimney. On my old stove pipe I drilled a hole below the baro to insert the copper tube to get a reading


More or less what I do.


velvetfoot said:


> If you use your manometer to adjust the draft on the baro damper, why would you need it attached all the time?





JRHAWK9 said:


> For me it's just confirmation the BD is adjusted correctly and continues to stay adjusted correctly.


BINGO! I have had baros "hang up" not work correctly...permanent mano monitoring points things like this pretty quick


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## maple1 (Nov 8, 2015)

velvetfoot said:


> But isn't the whole idea of the baro damper to keep draft below a certain level, based on its adjustment?  The other stuff you mentioned are things that change-I can see that.  Of course, it'd be cool to have it all on a data logger, but that's the subject for another thread.


 
You've got a point. Mine has been permanently hooked up & mounted for 3 years now, but once it's set, that's really all you need. Unless maybe you can't easily see your baro & want an easy check on whether it hangs up or not. But with me it's either leave it there or find shelf space for it somewhere, so...


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## velvetfoot (Nov 8, 2015)

I got an inexpensive digital one.  Used a couple of times, and yes, it's on the shelf.


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## garmford (Nov 8, 2015)

Good to hear that I'm using my manometer simular to you guys. For those that keep theirs permenatley hooked up, do you need to detach it to zero it out once in a while?  I have mine hanging level on a wall with in reach of the furnace and from time to time I need to adjust it to zero before I use it. Just curious.


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## brenndatomu (Nov 8, 2015)

garmford said:


> For those that keep theirs permenatley hooked up, do you need to detach it to zero it out once in a while? I have mine hanging level on a wall with in reach of the furnace and from time to time I need to adjust it to zero before I use it. Just curious.


I notice that if you zero it when everything is cold (normal basement temp) it will be different than if you zero after running the furnace 24/7. I suppose the gauge oil expands a bit


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## Monaco (Nov 30, 2015)

FYI - for those with a generator backup: according to the manufacturer, the Kuuma Vapor Fire 100 uses 7 amps on high, and 3 amps on low.


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## Highbeam (Nov 30, 2015)

Monaco said:


> FYI - for those with a generator backup: according to the manufacturer, the Kuuma Vapor Fire 100 uses 7 amps on high, and 3 amps on low.



of 240 or 120?


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## STIHLY DAN (Nov 30, 2015)

120


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## STIHLY DAN (Nov 30, 2015)

Amps will fluctuate with each install. The more air moved the more amps.


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## Monaco (Nov 30, 2015)

Do any of you experience a lot of fan starts-and-stops when the furnace is getting warmed up?

The blower will go on-of-on off at random intervals. Some "on" intervals as short as 10 seconds. Kuuma says it's because the fan airflow, once it kicks on, proceeds to cool the sensor in the plenum down to just below the "on" threshhold (105F), causing it to go off... and repeat... until the furnace room warms up and it can stay above the threshhold.

That makes sense to me in theory, but it's pretty annoying. Sometimes it'll happen for 30 minutes straight.


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## DaveH (Dec 1, 2015)

Monaco said:


> Do any of you experience a lot of fan starts-and-stops when the furnace is getting warmed up?
> 
> The blower will go on-of-on off at random intervals. Some "on" intervals as short as 10 seconds. Kuuma says it's because the fan airflow, once it kicks on, proceeds to cool the sensor in the plenum down to just below the "on" threshhold (105F), causing it to go off... and repeat... until the furnace room warms up and it can stay above the threshhold.
> 
> That makes sense to me in theory, but it's pretty annoying. Sometimes it'll happen for 30 minutes straight.



I've noticed the fan kicking on and off at start and wasn't sure what it was, but that makes sense.  Unless I'm sitting in the living room in silence it wouldn't bother me.  I assume once winter kicks in and the furnace is full non-stop, that the furnace room will stay warm and the plenum won't need much time to warm up and stay at temp.  Overall, it's not something that bothers me.  Easy pay off for me.  Zero propane used so far.


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## JRHAWK9 (Dec 1, 2015)

Cold startups are very inefficient, as a lot of the BTU's are being used to bring the metal firebox and all it's surroundings up to temp.  Once everything is up to temp then things start working like they should and the blower will start to run continuously throughout the burn.


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## STIHLY DAN (Dec 1, 2015)

I do not and never had that issue. Once my fan turns on iy stays on. To me this sounds more like wet wood, which would make perfect sense.


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## garmford (Dec 2, 2015)

My fan goes in and off too. I've contacted Daryl and he gave me a few pointers. I am burning good wood. Even when the furnace is in pilot mode it still does it. So I finally set the low limit to 100 and it's been better but time will tell. Other than that I love this furnace so far!


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## brenndatomu (Dec 2, 2015)

STIHLY DAN said:


> I do not and never had that issue. Once my fan turns on iy stays on. To me this sounds more like wet wood, which would make perfect sense.





garmford said:


> My fan goes in and off too. I've contacted Daryl and he gave me a few pointers. I am burning good wood. Even when the furnace is in pilot mode it still does it. So I finally set the low limit to 100 and it's been better but time will tell. Other than that I love this furnace so far!


Static pressure issue?


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## STIHLY DAN (Dec 2, 2015)

garmford said:


> My fan goes in and off too. I've contacted Daryl and he gave me a few pointers. I am burning good wood. Even when the furnace is in pilot mode it still does it. So I finally set the low limit to 100 and it's been better but time will tell. Other than that I love this furnace so far!



Is the T-stat calling for heat when you start up? If so the fan is on high and I can see this doing that. Try it without the T-stat calling then after well hot turn it on. If it is still doing it turn the computer to medium or 1/2.


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## garmford (Dec 2, 2015)

I've turned the t-stat down to avoid the higher blower speed and have thought about setting the computer higher for the first hour or so. I'll have to try that next time. My dilemma is even if I reload over hot coals after the fan starts cycling due to the cooling firebox, it never stops short cycling. For example, Sunday morning I reloaded over hot coals and the fan was short cycling because it was towards the end of the burn. After 1 1/2 hours I came back in the house to a hot fire, computer in pilot mode, and the fan still short cycling. The low limit was set at 105. So I turned the low limit down to 100 for a few seconds then back to 105 and the the fan stayed running for the rest of the burn. Since then I talked to Daryl and I set the switch to 100. So far it's been a little warm in these parts so I've let the fire burn out during the day, so I haven't had a chance to really test it out. 
Sorry for the rambling. I just like to give as much info that I can. 
Thanks for all of the advice! That's what makes this forum so great!!


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## Monaco (Dec 2, 2015)

This sounds like what I've been experiencing. The fire is in cruise mode (nothing but a huge pile of hot coals) and the fan is still cycling. Some cycles are less than a second, the fan doesn't have the time to get up to speed... This can go on for up to two hours.

I called Daryl this morning and he said to turn the fan switch down to 100 - which I did. I won't know if it helped until my next cold start. He said there's a chance I have a bad thermo-majiggy.



garmford said:


> I've turned the t-stat down to avoid the higher blower speed and have thought about setting the computer higher for the first hour or so. I'll have to try that next time. My dilemma is even if I reload over hot coals after the fan starts cycling due to the cooling firebox, it never stops short cycling. For example, Sunday morning I reloaded over hot coals and the fan was short cycling because it was towards the end of the burn. After 1 1/2 hours I came back in the house to a hot fire, computer in pilot mode, and the fan still short cycling. The low limit was set at 105. So I turned the low limit down to 100 for a few seconds then back to 105 and the the fan stayed running for the rest of the burn. Since then I talked to Daryl and I set the switch to 100. So far it's been a little warm in these parts so I've let the fire burn out during the day, so I haven't had a chance to really test it out.
> Sorry for the rambling. I just like to give as much info that I can.
> Thanks for all of the advice! That's what makes this forum so great!!


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## JRHAWK9 (Dec 2, 2015)

Mine will cycle at the end of a burn like it should, but doesn't short cycle.  However, I moved my low limit switch up much higher in the plenum instead of on the side of the firebox per Daryl's recommendation for more consistent kick in/off temps.  I also have it set at 115°.  It turns off at 95° on the nuts every time like clockwork according to my HVAC thermometer.  

When I have just coals left I'm normally towards the end of a burn and the coals are concentrated in the back of the firebox due to the front to back burning.


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## STIHLY DAN (Dec 2, 2015)

garmford said:


> My fan goes in and off too. I've contacted Daryl and he gave me a few pointers. I am burning good wood. Even when the furnace is in pilot mode it still does it. So I finally set the low limit to 100 and it's been better but time will tell. Other than that I love this furnace so far!



Is the T-stat calling for heat when you start up? If so the fan is on high and I can see this doing that. Try it without the T-stat calling then after well hot turn it on. If it is still doing it turn the computer to medium or 1/2.


garmford said:


> I've turned the t-stat down to avoid the higher blower speed and have thought about setting the computer higher for the first hour or so. I'll have to try that next time. My dilemma is even if I reload over hot coals after the fan starts cycling due to the cooling firebox, it never stops short cycling. For example, Sunday morning I reloaded over hot coals and the fan was short cycling because it was towards the end of the burn. After 1 1/2 hours I came back in the house to a hot fire, computer in pilot mode, and the fan still short cycling. The low limit was set at 105. So I turned the low limit down to 100 for a few seconds then back to 105 and the the fan stayed running for the rest of the burn. Since then I talked to Daryl and I set the switch to 100. So far it's been a little warm in these parts so I've let the fire burn out during the day, so I haven't had a chance to really test it out.
> Sorry for the rambling. I just like to give as much info that I can.
> Thanks for all of the advice! That's what makes this forum so great!!



I have had my unit set on 100 for a few years now, I find I get the most heat at that spot. I do remember now that in the beginning that the fan didn't seem to come on at the right time, and when I moved the temp dial to 100 then to 105 the fan came on and stayed on. In the end I found that I had the high limit in the wrong spot so even tho the T-stat wasn't calling the fan started in high. After I moved the High limit up stream some it didn't happen any more. Also I have found that I only need the T-stat if it gets below zero outside.


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## Monaco (Dec 3, 2015)

In my case I am burning slightly green wood, but I have my t-stat all the way down to keep the fan from starting up on high - which is what I thought what was happening at first.

We'll see how the unit setting at 100 will do. 

Thanks everyone for chiming in.


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## garmford (Dec 3, 2015)

I do turn the t-stat down so the blower stays at the lower speed. I also put my low limit higher in the bonnet like jrhawk did. How far did you need to move the high limit?


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## STIHLY DAN (Dec 3, 2015)

My ceilings are not near as high as yours. My issue was, to get the ductwork the way I wanted it I had to go from square to round back to rectangle. So it was not possible to place it at their suggested location. The high limit is about 18" now. I also happen to have a string from a pull string light that hangs in front of my basement vent, that lets me know what the fan is doing. I think I went the whole year before I noticed the high fan on, at start up.  Not reload.


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## Monaco (Dec 4, 2015)

This morning I did another cold start - the first one since lowering the sensor to 100F. I had two hours of short cycling, not as often as before, but still some.

Sometimes I could get the fan to turn back on if I turned the thermo down then up then down again.

It seems definitely wrong that a furnace cannot run properly if some cool air is passing by a sensor. This essentially means that the furnace would not run in a cold house - which is the whole point of having a furnace. I can't be less that 64 degrees down there.

It also renders the high-speed fan useless unless it's very warm in the furnace room.

I'm going to call Kuuma and see what they say. Maybe they got a bad batch of sensors from the supplier.


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## STIHLY DAN (Dec 4, 2015)

Monaco, it does sound like a bad fan sensor. But looking back at your pics the high limit that sticks in the plenum about 10-12 inches, is mounted at an angle putting the tip of the probe very close to the HE. This may be putting the fan in high all the time. (even then it should run a lot longer than 1 sec) I would move that a ft higher. Also do you have supply registers in your basement? or an always open basement door? Thinking of neg press in basement. Also what is slightly green wood? what kind is it, and how long was it stacked for? When the fan is short cycling how hot is the bonnet?(sarcasm now) WE TOLD YOU NOT TO LEAVE THAT OUT IN THE RAIN 

Have you checked for a good connection at the low limit? Those female adapters sometimes need a pinch to tighten them. Could be just poor connection.


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## JRHAWK9 (Dec 4, 2015)

cold air return temp? Bonnet temp?  Static pressure in bonnet?  MC of wood?  Does the computer go to pilot during the middle of the burn or does it constantly go from pilot to '1'?

You may want to look into connecting your cold air return duct to the furnace if your basement is going to be staying that cool.  It should warm up though as your house warms up.  My basement is generally right around the same temp as my house when burning and I don't have any open supply registers down there.  It's solely heated by the radiant heat off the Kuuma.  I use an open staircase for my return air.


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## garmford (Dec 5, 2015)

Last night I did a cold start too. T-stat down and the computer up. It cycled for about an hour and that was it. Ran until now. But now I just loaded it and have to leave for a few hours so I won't be able to watch it. But at least last nights start was promising!


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## Monaco (Dec 14, 2015)

STIHLY DAN said:


> Monaco, it does sound like a bad fan sensor. But looking back at your pics the high limit that sticks in the plenum about 10-12 inches, is mounted at an angle putting the tip of the probe very close to the HE. This may be putting the fan in high all the time. (even then it should run a lot longer than 1 sec) I would move that a ft higher. Also do you have supply registers in your basement? or an always open basement door? Thinking of neg press in basement. Also what is slightly green wood? what kind is it, and how long was it stacked for? When the fan is short cycling how hot is the bonnet?(sarcasm now) WE TOLD YOU NOT TO LEAVE THAT OUT IN THE RAIN
> 
> Have you checked for a good connection at the low limit? Those female adapters sometimes need a pinch to tighten them. Could be just poor connection.



High limit sensor:
What I did was measure the height from the tip to the top of the burner and mounted it high enough to keep the same measurement. 

My fan is never on high - so that part seems to work (I can control the fan speed with the thermostat.)

The intake seems to work properly, from C to 3,2,1, c and so on.

Basement has no supply registers but the temp is always the same as the house. 65-68 when I fire it up and it heats up fast from just being near the furnace. There's an open door right by the furnace, and the cold air return from upstairs is right above it.The room the furnace is in gets pretty warm when it's going good - close to 80F.

It's been better though since I turned the dial down to 100. I've only had the opportunity to cold-start twice though.

This morning I did another cold start with no fan cycling (the house was at 68). However: this odd thing happened twice: The control box turned off, then back on a few seconds later. By off, I mean the LED went out, the damper closed-  then when it came back on on it did the single "beep" it does when it's turned on.


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## STIHLY DAN (Dec 14, 2015)

Monaco said:


> High limit sensor:
> What I did was measure the height from the tip to the top of the burner and mounted it high enough to keep the same measurement.
> 
> My fan is never on high - so that part seems to work (I can control the fan speed with the thermostat.)
> ...



That is the unit going out on high limit. (safety) High speed fan comes on by the high limit not just by the t-stat. I suggest you call Lamppa immediately and get a new fan sensor. You have a problem there.


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## garmford (Dec 14, 2015)

Monaco, these are the same symptoms that I've been having since I've had it hooked up. Ive also had my computer go black and come back. It's happened twice at least, but I dont sit and watch it 24/7. Even tonight I started a fire, 2 1/2 hours later it's still cycling. That's with the switch at 100, fan on low, computer on medium. It's getting frustrating. He must have had a bad batch of switches! I'll email him tonight and see if I can get a replacement and try it out.


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## motoguy (Dec 14, 2015)

Mine has been sitting in the basement for several weeks, not hooked up yet.  I'm curious if there is a sensor issue.  I'll be watching this thread.


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## Monaco (Dec 14, 2015)

garmford said:


> Monaco, these are the same symptoms that I've been having since I've had it hooked up. Ive also had my computer go black and come back. It's happened twice at least, but I dont sit and watch it 24/7. Even tonight I started a fire, 2 1/2 hours later it's still cycling. That's with the switch at 100, fan on low, computer on medium. It's getting frustrating. He must have had a bad batch of switches! I'll email him tonight and see if I can get a replacement and try it out.



Thanks for chiming in. My cycling has pretty much gone away since moving the temp sensor down to 100.

They're not really email people though- but you can call and you'll get immediate help. I can call too.


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## Monaco (Dec 14, 2015)

STIHLY DAN said:


> That is the unit going out on high limit. (safety) High speed fan comes on by the high limit not just by the t-stat. I suggest you call Lamppa immediately and get a new fan sensor. You have a problem there.



Just to clarify - this is not the same as the high temp error, where it does the continuous beep and gives the error code. It's more like the computer loses power.


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## maple1 (Dec 15, 2015)

motoguy said:


> Mine has been sitting in the basement for several weeks, not hooked up yet.  I'm curious if there is a sensor issue.  I'll be watching this thread.


 
I think I would hook it up & get burning anyway. Or maybe there are other factors...


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## motoguy (Dec 15, 2015)

Yeah, this won't be a critical factor.  Still need to get ductwork fabbed to tie it in.


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## Monaco (Dec 15, 2015)

motoguy said:


> Yeah, this won't be a critical factor.  Still need to get ductwork fabbed to tie it in.



Post pics!


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## STIHLY DAN (Dec 15, 2015)

Monaco said:


> Just to clarify - this is not the same as the high temp error, where it does the continuous beep and gives the error code. It's more like the computer loses power.



Did the fan keep running when the computer went blank?


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## Monaco (Dec 15, 2015)

STIHLY DAN said:


> Did the fan keep running when the computer went blank?


This was before the fan started up


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## STIHLY DAN (Dec 15, 2015)

Super curious to see what is going on there. Seems to be 2 separate issues going on. Unless the computer  keeps blanking off causing the unit to not get to temp.


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## lampmfg (Dec 16, 2015)

I've been keeping an eye on this thread.  A big thank you to our current Kuuma owners for always trying to be so helpful on any type of questions or issues.  I really appreciate you doing this!  For anyone with questions or concerns please feel free to call or e-mail us directly, but sometimes it's easier to use this awesome forum.  When contacting us it's great to first e-mail some pictures of your set-up before calling my dad directly at the shop the next day.  He's much more detailed over the phone, especially if he has seen your set-up.  He does only goes over e-mail once a day with my mom and it's usually later at night.  Rest assured that we will get you taken care of because we want you to have a great customer experience.  Please make sure that you follow the installation instruction in the owners manual, which can also be found on our website.  The majority of issues we have ever had come from incorrect installation. From time to time we do receive defective parts from our suppliers, and if that's the issue it's very easy for us to get you out a replacement.  My dad does a good test of a couple items before the furnace is shipped, but this can't catch everything.

To summarize  We spend a ton of time helping people with questions.   I couldn't even tell you how many e-mail chains we get going with some owners to ensure proper operation.  So any that are solved here it's really appreciated!


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## Highbeam (Dec 17, 2015)

lampmfg said:


> I've been keeping an eye on this thread.  A big thank you to our current Kuuma owners for always trying to be so helpful on any type of questions or issues.  I really appreciate you doing this!  For anyone with questions or concerns please feel free to call or e-mail us directly, but sometimes it's easier to use this awesome forum.  When contacting us it's great to first e-mail some pictures of your set-up before calling my dad directly at the shop the next day.  He's much more detailed over the phone, especially if he has seen your set-up.  He does only goes over e-mail once a day with my mom and it's usually later at night.  Rest assured that we will get you taken care of because we want you to have a great customer experience.  Please make sure that you follow the installation instruction in the owners manual, which can also be found on our website.  The majority of issues we have ever had come from incorrect installation. From time to time we do receive defective parts from our suppliers, and if that's the issue it's very easy for us to get you out a replacement.  My dad does a good test of a couple items before the furnace is shipped, but this can't catch everything.
> 
> To summarize  We spend a ton of time helping people with questions.   I couldn't even tell you how many e-mail chains we get going with some owners to ensure proper operation.  So any that are solved here it's really appreciated!



And it adds value to your product when your company has representatives visiting these forums as well.


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## Monaco (Dec 17, 2015)

lampmfg said:


> I've been keeping an eye on this thread.  A big thank you to our current Kuuma owners for always trying to be so helpful on any type of questions or issues.  I really appreciate you doing this!  For anyone with questions or concerns please feel free to call or e-mail us directly, but sometimes it's easier to use this awesome forum.  When contacting us it's great to first e-mail some pictures of your set-up before calling my dad directly at the shop the next day.  He's much more detailed over the phone, especially if he has seen your set-up.  He does only goes over e-mail once a day with my mom and it's usually later at night.  Rest assured that we will get you taken care of because we want you to have a great customer experience.  Please make sure that you follow the installation instruction in the owners manual, which can also be found on our website.  The majority of issues we have ever had come from incorrect installation. From time to time we do receive defective parts from our suppliers, and if that's the issue it's very easy for us to get you out a replacement.  My dad does a good test of a couple items before the furnace is shipped, but this can't catch everything.
> 
> To summarize  We spend a ton of time helping people with questions.   I couldn't even tell you how many e-mail chains we get going with some owners to ensure proper operation.  So any that are solved here it's really appreciated!


Thank you.

I haven't had any issues lately with short-cycling or strange shut-offs, but then again I haven't had the opportunity to do a cold start in the last few days either. I'll keep you informed.


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## DaveH (Dec 20, 2015)

STIHLY DAN said:


> That is the unit going out on high limit. (safety) High speed fan comes on by the high limit not just by the t-stat.
> 
> I haven't found any documentation on it or asked Daryl directly, but, is there a sleep function on the display that you've noticed?  My display goes out regularly, then beeps and kicks back on.  I refuse to believe it is close to overheating every time it does this, mainly because i'm throwing in 3 or 4 maple/elm/pine splits at a time.  It's out right now, about 20 minutes after I place 3 smaller Norway Maple splits (15% mc max) on to a small bed of coals.
> 
> Is it a sleep mode type function or is my high limit control too low on the plenum? Thanks.


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## STIHLY DAN (Dec 20, 2015)

You need to call lammpa now! There is something wrong with that controller.  Get it straightened out before it gets cold.


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## DaveH (Dec 20, 2015)

STIHLY DAN said:


> You need to call lammpa now! There is something wrong with that controller.  Get it straightened out before it gets cold.



Thanks.  I figure thats the best bet.  

A few minutes after I posted this I checked the furnace, had a nice little bed of coals, went up and turned the thermostat from 68 to 70 and the unit kicked on immediately, showed a 3, and kicked the fan on.  This is why I thought it might me a sleep function.  I'll call.

Is it possible that this is a function on the newer units?


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## STIHLY DAN (Dec 20, 2015)

No, there is no sleep function. If the low speed fan was not already on, the high speed should not have came on. The 3 of you really need to contact lammpa and get this straightened out.


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## brenndatomu (Dec 20, 2015)

The previously thought to be extinct "Kuuma gremlins"...although VERY rare, turns out they do still exist!


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## Monaco (Dec 21, 2015)

I've done a few cold starts over the last week and no more problems other than a few times of cycling off that could be "normal". I have not experienced the mysterious controller "power off" issue again.


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## DaveH (Dec 21, 2015)

Quick fix I hope.  Turned the low limit down to 100.  This should keep the fan running on low longer, thus cooling the exchanger and not causing the unit to overheat and shut down.


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## Monaco (Dec 21, 2015)

I can attest that there is no appearance of or anyway to mistake a power failure when you go over heat limit. Leave the ashpan door open long enough, and it'll warn you with a lour continuous beep tone and an error code on the LCD display.


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## DaveH (Dec 21, 2015)

I talked to Daryl today and he confirmed the unit will shut down when it hits its high limit or gets close to it.  The high temp alarm must have a different criteria in order to trigger, probably a slightly higher temp.


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## JRHAWK9 (Dec 21, 2015)

High temp alarm sounds when the thermocouple senses internal firebox temps hitting a preset limit.  The computer sends out a continuous beep and then displays AL on the display.  Only thing that can be done about this is putting some tape temporarily over the pilot holes on the primary air supply, which may help calm the fire down sooner.  This will sometimes happen when you do a FULL load on top of a full bed of hot coals.  The out-gassing from the fresh load can really get hot tripping the alarm for a bit.

The high limit switch in the plenum will turn on the high speed blower when plenum temps reach 220° and turn off the computer when they reach 250°.  If your computer is turning off due to high plenum temps then the high speed blower must come on some time before it shuts itself down....otherwise it's not turning off due to plenum temps.  Also note the high speed blower will continue to run even when the computer shuts itself down.

per the manual:


> The primary fan (high speed) will turn on automatically provided the side jacket is at 105 degrees F (or wherever you have the low limit set to) whenever the remote room thermostat is calling for heat. The fan will also turn on automatically if the plenum temperature rises to the setting on the high limit switch (set at approximately 220 degrees F.) and will continue to operate until the temperature of the plenum has cooled down to approximately 100 degrees F. The high limit is set at approximately 250 degrees F. and if this temperature is ever obtained, the electronic control will be entirely de-energized and the automatic draft controller will close. Conditions will remain in this state until plenum temperature has cooled with large fan running allowing the automatic high temperature cut-out switch to reset the controller.



Unless you have a faulty low limit switch causing your low speed blower NOT to come on, causing very high bonnet temps, my guess is you are not hitting the high limit temp (250°) and the computer is shutting down due to some voltage spike or something in the line.  I guess these computers can be a bit sensitive to any kind of voltage spikes/irregularities.  Stick an HVAC/meat thermometer in your plenum and monitor your plenum temps, this will help give you a better idea of what's possibly going on.

If the high limit is actually being tripped, I would check to make sure you have your high limit setup correctly and it's not being prematurely tripped.


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## brenndatomu (Dec 21, 2015)

JRHAWK9 said:


> The high limit switch in the plenum will turn on the high speed blower when plenum temps reach 220° and turn off the computer when they reach 250°


Wow that seems high. Many furnace limit switches are set at 200*. Pyrolosis (sp?) begins around ~190* I believe...


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## STIHLY DAN (Dec 21, 2015)

It's not the high limit as the fan did not come on yet. And no alarm was sounded or registered. I still think the high limit is to close, and the bleep in the computer is an issue.


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## STIHLY DAN (Dec 21, 2015)

DaveH said:


> I talked to Daryl today and he confirmed the unit will shut down when it hits its high limit or gets close to it.  The high temp alarm must have a different criteria in order to trigger, probably a slightly higher temp.



What did daryl say about the blip in the computer.


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## DaveH (Dec 22, 2015)

STIHLY DAN said:


> What did daryl say about the blip in the computer.



Power interruption issue, high bonnet probe wired with a ground fault circuit, or possible bad wire.  

I double checked my high limit settings, they are good.  The furnace is not on a GFI outlet/breaker.  It hasn't happened in a couple days.  I'll have to keep an eye on it when I'm off for the holiday.


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## DaveH (Dec 22, 2015)

" I still think the high limit is to close"

You mean physically too close to the HE?


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## STIHLY DAN (Dec 22, 2015)

DaveH said:


> " I still think the high limit is to close"
> 
> You mean physically too close to the HE?



Dave, yes to close to the unit but I was referring to Monaco's not yours. I find the answer you received to be hard to believe. Did you tell him that 3 of you had the exact same issue.


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## Monaco (Dec 31, 2015)

STIHLY DAN said:


> Dave, yes to close to the unit but I was referring to Monaco's not yours. I find the answer you received to be hard to believe. Did you tell him that 3 of you had the exact same issue.



I think I might move mine higher just to be on the safe side.  may also find some kind of thermometer to stick in there just for information's sake


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## DaveH (Dec 31, 2015)

Since I've turned my low limit down to 100, I've noticed the the fan come on earlier and stay on consistently like it should.  I have not had the computer shut down again.  There may be no direct correlation, but everything is running fine now.


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## garmford (Dec 31, 2015)

I talked to Daryl about my short cycling and he agreed that the low limit switch could be bad. He sent me a new one and that thing works sweet!! Very little cycling at the start, if at all, and then it cycles at the end when there's just coal. This is how I assumed it should have worked from the start. Again, customer satisfaction at its best! I now have the switch set to 110 for the last few weeks and has been working well 

My question for the rest of you users is, what temperature are you getting in the bonnet when the furnace is hot and running at an even keel? I assume this can different for all of us depending on our wood and size of the load in the box. If I put in a decent load and the computer on low, I will be 90-100*. With the same load and the computer on high it can get as high as 110*. It definitely uses more wood with the computer on high! For temperature reading I have a meat thermometer inserted in the front of the plenum about 16" up from the top of the furnace. I also have the static pressure set at .20. I also have cold air return from the existing hvac system attached to the filter box. I keep reading about some of you being able to cook yourselves out of your house with a small load with the computer on low. I can't do that with a big load with the computer on high, unless it's about 35* outside. Now I may have over engineered my duct work too. I created some long runs thinking I was doing the right thing but I'm starting to have my doubts. So I'd like to make sure that the Vaporfire is operating similar as the rest of yours before I start tearing sheet metal apart. 

Though I must confess, it's been in the mid 20's here today the house has been at a pleasurable 72* all day with the computer on low. Now that we have cooler weather and the fire can stay lit 24/7, the temp in the house doesn't seem to fluctuate near as much as last month with the continual cold starts from the warmer weather. I may need to crank it up for tonight's single digit temp forecast. 

Thanks for any helpful info!!
Happy New Year


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## STIHLY DAN (Dec 31, 2015)

garmford said:


> My question for the rest of you users is, what temperature are you getting in the bonnet when the furnace is hot and running at an even keel?



I have a 1/3 load in now, unit on low, computer at 1, low speed fan on, fan on temp set at 100*. Temp at 1st outlet 5 ft away is 102*. This will increase a bit when it hits cruise temp. Generally runs about 112*. My ductwork is not insulated, return is 30 ft long, supply trunk is 35 ft with 9 takeoffs and key dampers in each for zoning.

I like 110 setting on shoulder season and 100 when its cold, You get more heat with lower setting. Allows the fan to run longer when your down to coals.


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## STIHLY DAN (Dec 31, 2015)

Coming into the last 3rd of the burn, #2 on and temp is 112*


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## STIHLY DAN (Dec 31, 2015)

32* outside, started with a cold unit, house was 68 and un insulated concrete basement was 60. House is now 76 and basement 70. This (over heat) was not an accident, No kids tonight so planning on hot, drunken, sloppy XXX!!


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## STIHLY DAN (Dec 31, 2015)

On # 3 at end of burn, 5 hrs in, temp 92*


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## brenndatomu (Dec 31, 2015)

STIHLY DAN said:


> On # 3 at end of burn, 5 hrs in, temp 92*


92 in the house?! Man, you wanna make sure she's nekked, eh?! 
No need to update us on how this all turns out for ya... 
(free tip...you need to be shmoozin on her instead of postin on here...)


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## STIHLY DAN (Dec 31, 2015)

brenndatomu said:


> 92 in the house?! Man, you wanna make sure she's nekked, eh?!
> No need to update us on how this turns out for ya...


No, supply temp.


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## STIHLY DAN (Dec 31, 2015)

This is the small coal bed producing the temp. Coals are a lot smaller than they look, had to make the pic tiny for this site to accept it. Kind of a pain in the ass and makes things very inaccurate.


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## STIHLY DAN (Dec 31, 2015)

Fan off. Small coals left. If the site allows at least 1/3 a cropped pic. Cropped to 1/8th. Really? Wtf Upgrade anyone? It's not the 90's.


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## STIHLY DAN (Dec 31, 2015)

That's actually the size of a football.


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## webfish (Dec 31, 2015)

STIHLY DAN said:


> Fan off. Small coals left. If the site allows at least 1/3 a cropped pic. Cropped to 1/8th. Really? Wtf Upgrade anyone? It's not the 90's.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Not sure how you are loading. The site  accepts attachments up to 8MB which is larger than before and 1000 x 1200 dimensions.


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## brenndatomu (Jan 1, 2016)

webfish said:


> Not sure how you are loading. The site  accepts attachments up to 8MB which is larger than before and 1000 x 1200 dimensions.


Ahhh, never mind Dan, he's just cranky cuz it's so dang hot in the house!


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## garmford (Jan 1, 2016)

brenndatomu said:


> Ahhh, never mind Dan, he's just cranky cuz it's so dang hot in the house!



I'd like to get my house that hot!! 

Thanks for the play by play Dan! And thanks for stopping at the xxx part! I think there's other forums for that. Lol

I packed mine full at 6:30 last night before we headed out for the festivities, i even turned the computer up 1/4. It did alright. 69 in the house with a big bed of coals. I'll try to do some smaller loads today to recover the temp in the house. I still can't reach those temps in my bonnet/house. I've checked my thermometer against other ones and believe it to be accurate. My wood isn't the driest at 20-22% but it burns really nice and there's no trouble starting it. 
Thanks for the help!


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## STIHLY DAN (Jan 1, 2016)

webfish said:


> Not sure how you are loading. The site  accepts attachments up to 8MB which is larger than before and 1000 x 1200 dimensions.



Samsung galaxy s6. Site does not take from that phone anything more than 2mb. If I crop it down to even 2.26 it says file to large.


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## webfish (Jan 1, 2016)

I'll check for a limitation.


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## Monaco (Jan 2, 2016)

Guys, I think I have a bad computer.

I was out for a week and the in laws were running the furnace for us. They complained about oddities, fan turning off, etc. I dismissed most of it as user error.

Then we got back. 27-28F outside. House was 65, fan off, furnace unusually full of coals. I loaded more wood up, things seemed normal until it shut off. Sometimes the fan would go off, sometimes the computer, sometimes both, somtimes I'd hear the "beep" of the control power coming back on. This went on all night.

I don't believe it's high temp. I have easily put my hand on the plenum. It's warm, but not hot. 70-ish temp in furnace room.

This morning, 60 in the house because the fan wouldn't stay on. I started messing with the settings, and found out I could turn off and on the control computer with a finger tap... At random. Like it has a loose connection. Somtimes it could go off with no touch from me, sometimes a flip on-off of the switch would get it to come back on, sometimes not. I got all this on video.

I took the face plate off and looked for loose solder points but couldn't find anything obvious. A steady 25v AC across the contacts.

I'm going to ask for a replacement if we can get by until Monday.


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## Monaco (Jan 2, 2016)

In response to some of the other posts, I have not been able to get the house above 68 with outdoor temps being at 32 or lower... Now matter where I put the control knob or thermostat.


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## laynes69 (Jan 2, 2016)

I don't have a Kuuma, but I would maybe look to make sure there's no soot buildup in the heat exchanger. Also, the colder the air entering the blower from the house, the less the blower could run. 60 degree air, compared to 70-75 degree air is quite a difference. Now when wood is added, the furnace produces heat and the blower will run. With all that said, the furnace may be running the way it should, but your heating demand is too high. Just because it's one of the best furnaces on the market, doesn't mean it will heat anything. Good luck, hope you get things figured out.


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## Monaco (Jan 2, 2016)

I'm fairly certain I'm not able to get as much heat as I could because of the computer issues I'm having.


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## garmford (Jan 2, 2016)

My return air is the same as the house because of the return side is connected to the existing lp gas furnace. It's been e 70* mark at the filter box just before entering the Vaporfire. Though it 74 right now in the house, 69 when I woke up. Computer is on low and it maybe got up to the high 20's today. I'm pleased with that but am still nervous when we get sub zero temps. I have reservations that it will keep up. I'm also still contemplating changing my duct work a little. That will help a lot I believe ! Time will tell.


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## STIHLY DAN (Jan 2, 2016)

Monaco said:


> Guys, I think I have a bad computer.
> 
> I was out for a week and the in laws were running the furnace for us. They complained about oddities, fan turning off, etc. I dismissed most of it as user error.
> 
> ...



I think you have 2 things. 1 the computer sounds like something's wrong if it shuts off by tapping it. 2 low limit probably bad like garmford's was.


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## lampmfg (Jan 3, 2016)

Monaco said:


> I'm fairly certain I'm not able to get as much heat as I could because of the computer issues I'm having.


Call my dad at the shop tomorrow and he will get you out another one.  Send it back to us so we can have it tested.  Thanks


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## webfish (Jan 4, 2016)

STIHLY DAN said:


> Samsung galaxy s6. Site does not take from that phone anything more than 2mb. If I crop it down to even 2.26 it says file to large.



Think it will take larger ones now .


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## Monaco (Jan 4, 2016)

lampmfg said:


> Call my dad at the shop tomorrow and he will get you out another one.  Send it back to us so we can have it tested.  Thanks


I called the shop, he's going to look at he video and get back with me with further instructions.


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## Monaco (Jan 4, 2016)

Dan - what kind of thermometer do you have to detect your supply temp?


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 4, 2016)

Monaco said:


> Dan - what kind of thermometer do you have to detect your supply temp?



I have -THESE- stuck in my plenum/ductwork in various locations.

BTW, my 63lb load last night made it 14.5 hours  lol  I loaded it last night after the Packer game at 10:30pm, I got up this morning and saw the computer was on '2' and right away knew I wasn't going to be loading it before work so I asked the other half to load it when she came home from work for lunch, hoping there would be enough coals left.  She called me at 1:30pm and told me she put 30lbs in and there was plenty of coals left to continue the fire.  It got down to 17° last night and is currently low to mid 20's.


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## STIHLY DAN (Jan 4, 2016)

Monaco said:


> Dan - what kind of thermometer do you have to detect your supply temp?



A digital probe, a cooper digital thermometer, A fluke, a testo. and many others, But generally use the cooper and keep it near by.


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## STIHLY DAN (Jan 4, 2016)

A couple of pics to see if they will go through after webfish's magic. Close up pic works, way to go webfish.


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## brenndatomu (Jan 4, 2016)

Somebody ask @STIHLY DAN  what manometer(s) he uses...


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## STIHLY DAN (Jan 4, 2016)

A nice dwyer from Ohio.


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## brenndatomu (Jan 4, 2016)

STIHLY DAN said:


> A nice dwyer from Ohio.


LOL, Yeah. I'm sure that is your favorite one...but I was referring to that pic (now that you can load it here) of your new Dwyer with all his buddys


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## STIHLY DAN (Jan 4, 2016)

This one?


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## brenndatomu (Jan 4, 2016)

There it is...the guy is as big of a tool hound as me!


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## DaveH (Jan 5, 2016)

Monaco said:


> In response to some of the other posts, I have not been able to get the house above 68 with outdoor temps being at 32 or lower... Now matter where I put the control knob or thermostat.



I'm having the same struggles as you.  What is your home sq. footage? It's been bitter cold here, single digits.  Yesterday morning the home was about 66 when I left for work with a half load of wood in.  I came back 12 hours later and my home was at 59.  I reloaded but the house crept up to 61 after a load of Black Locust.  With the fire roaring last night, I turned the computer from low to medium when the damper was in pilot (c).  This opened the damper to a 1, stoked the fire and caused the furnace to alarm.  I had to turn the computer down to just below medium in order for the damper to stay closed.  Woke up and still at 60.  I'm not getting the long burn times no matter what wood I load.


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 5, 2016)

DaveH said:


> I'm having the same struggles as you.  What is your home sq. footage? It's been bitter cold here, single digits.  Yesterday morning the home was about 66 when I left for work with a half load of wood in.  I came back 12 hours later and my home was at 59.  I reloaded but the house crept up to 61 after a load of Black Locust.  With the fire roaring last night, I turned the computer from low to medium when the damper was in pilot (c).  This opened the damper to a 1, stoked the fire and caused the furnace to alarm.  I had to turn the computer down to just below medium in order for the damper to stay closed.  Woke up and still at 60.  I'm not getting the long burn times no matter what wood I load.




I would not expect a half load of wood to heat a home for 12 hours in single digits.  A half load for me in my Kuuma is about 30-35lbs.  Wood has about 6,000 BTU's per pound @ 20% MC.  If you are burning, say, 35lbs in 12 hours.  Assuming 80% efficiency you are only averaging 14,000 BTU's per hour over that 12 hour span.  Unless your home is small and/or VERY well insulated, 14,000 BTU's per hour will not be enough to heat in cold weather.  You can't create BTU's......wood only has so many to give.  The more wood you burn the more heat you will get out, assuming constant efficiency.  For me in my in-efficient house, in sub zero temps, all my effort goes into trying to get the furnace to burn as much wood as I can.  It seems to burn, max, about a full load every 8 hours or so.  It's not capable of burning much more than that.  Back when I was looking at purchasing the Kuuma and speaking with Daryl, I told him what we used for propane over the years and the area and style house we have.  He pretty much told me I'm lucky the house was not any bigger.  I knew going in I was at around the max heat load for the Kuuma.    

The Kuuma is a very efficient, well built furnace, however it's not a miracle heater and can't create any more BTU's than the wood offers.  


My advice, try to get the house up to temp and keep it there.  It's a snowball effect once it starts to cool.  You have colder air in which will mean colder air out.  It will take a lot of BTU's to recover a cold house in cold weather.  There were times last year when it was -17° in the morning and at the end of the burn the house would drop to 64°.  I reloaded the wood furnace and then also kicked the LP on to get the house up to temp ASAP.  I would have both furnaces running for about an hour to get the house temp back up and once it was I shut the LP off and the Kuuma maintained it throughout the burn cycle, until it reached the end of the burn.


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## lampmfg (Jan 5, 2016)

I just spoke with my dad and he said if anyone is having issues to call him at the shop 1-800-358-2049.  Most of the time it's only a handful of things that it could be and he's more than happy to help you out.

Remember, it's nearly impossible to burn wood more efficiently, but's it's not a miracle worker if you have poor insulation and a huge house in subzero temperatures, especially if your set-up hasn't been fine tuned yet.

Thanks!


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## DaveH (Jan 5, 2016)

I haven't been able to fill the furnace without an alarm. I'm going to get the house up to 66 with LP and try to keep up with it. Half the issue is being out of the house for 10+ hours a day, combined with not trusting a full load not to alarm. 



I'm


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 5, 2016)

I get the alarm on occasion when I fill the firebox on a lot of coals from all the outgassing that happens.  I'd contact Daryl to be sure, but in my situation he told me not to worry about it.  The alarm is more or less there to alert you if you'd leave the ashpan door open, have way too high of draft or something of that nature.  It's not like the furnace will melt when the firebox reaches that alarm temp.  Talk to Daryl to be sure, as you may have a different situation and I don't want to tell you something wrong and/or un-safe.  Make sure both your doors are sealing and make sure your draft is in check.


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## STIHLY DAN (Jan 5, 2016)

DaveH said:


> I haven't been able to fill the furnace without an alarm. I'm going to get the house up to 66 with LP and try to keep up with it. Half the issue is being out of the house for 10+ hours a day, combined with not trusting a full load not to alarm.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm



@DaveH did you get a new low limit? Also how high is your Hi limit installed above the plenum. I will put money on your low limit is not accurate, have lamppa replace it, Seems to be a bad batch out there.


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## DaveH (Jan 5, 2016)

I did not get a new low limit. I'll call as soon as I have some time. I brought up my high limit height whe I spoke with Daryl last , he said it was fine. About 5 inches up. Might move it a bit


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## STIHLY DAN (Jan 5, 2016)

DaveH, Looked through the install pics, There were many questions on the ductwork and sizing. Did you ever install back draft dampers in the gas furnace.? Did you increase the size of that 14 inch round 154 sq inches return duct with a larger size?


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 5, 2016)

DaveH, does your blower run all the time when in the middle of a burn like it should or does it act like garnford's did before he installed the new low limit?  You really should look into some sort of temp gauge for your plenum, makes troubleshooting easier when you know what your fan kick-on/off temps are.  A manometer would also be handy for checking your draft and static pressures. 

Dan has a point with his questions, as I assumed your ductwork sizing was correct and had the correct back draft dampers in place.  You may be short circuiting your Kuuma supply air by not having any back draft dampers in place.  Hot air from Kuuma back feeds the cold air from the LP and then gets sucked back into the cold air of the Kuuma.  This would be possible, right Dan?

The high limit shouldn't be an issue, as he's talking about the firebox alarm/overtemp and not the plenum overtemp.


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## DaveH (Jan 6, 2016)

I have dampers installed, so air shouldn't be getting into the LP furnace. I'm in the process of new duct work. I have some 160 in duct work that has to go.

I need more return for sure.  Going backwards from the blower is 14 in round, 8ft run of 196 sq in duct, then it chokes down to 160.  This will get done very soon.  

Do you guys step down the duct work? how long is your runs of 180-200sq in. ? My furnace is in the corner, back to the short wall of a center hall colonial.  The main supply trunk runs the entire length of the basement.  I get minimal air pressure by the end of the run.  

As far as the blower cycling, today with the thermostat calling for heat and the computer on pilot, the fan shut down.  I grabbed the phone to call Daryl but after maybe 10 minutes it kicked back on and has stayed on for the past hour or so.


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 6, 2016)

DaveH said:


> As far as the blower cycling, today with the thermostat calling for heat and the computer on pilot, the fan shut down.  I grabbed the phone to call Daryl but after maybe 10 minutes it kicked back on and has stayed on for the past hour or so.



I'm guessing the blower was on high (the thermo calling for heat) and then the air jacket temp dropped below what the low limit was set at, therefore turning off the blower circuit.  Having some HVAC thermometers would help you verify this by monitoring your plenum temps and comparing the actual temp to what the low limit is set at.  

IMO, the stock location of the low limit button switch is not the greatest.  It's on the side and is susceptible to cooler air, especially when doing a cold start.  The air is blowing up from the bottom and the air which passes over it does not even include any heat coming off the heat exchanger or even all the radiant heat off the full main part of the furnace.  If you mount it higher up in the plenum it will see hotter air from the whole furnace plus the heat exchanger.  Hot air rises, it doesn't go sideways  ;-) Daryl knows this but it's a UL listing thing, as he has to have it mounted and wired in order to get UL listed I guess.


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## Monaco (Jan 7, 2016)

I just got off the phone with Lamppa. They're really nice people and boy are they helpful.

They sent me a new computer and button temp sensor, and I have them installed. He advised I move the button sensor high up into the bonnet, which will make the sensing more accurate.

*Over temp alarm:*
When I installed the new sensor, I left it at 105. My fan shut off a good two hours before what it would with it set at 100-102F - giving me only about 8 hours of fan time. This morning there were a LOT of coals, so I loaded over top of them. About 3 hours later, the high temp came on. Daryl said the right idea is to always scrape the back of the firebox clean, down to the stone. Leaving coals there underneath a load of new wood messes up the front-to-back burn, causing excessive gassing.

So I'm going to move the button sensor off the side of the furnace up to the spot I have marked in green, turn it down a little, and will see what happens.

I think I prefer the 12 hour fan time. Even though air feels more lukewarm at the very end of the burm, it's still way warmer than outside, and it's still considerable, continuous BTUs going into the house - unlike when the fan is off.


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## Monaco (Jan 7, 2016)

JRHAWK9 said:


> IMO, the stock location of the low limit button switch is not the greatest.  It's on the side and is susceptible to cooler air, especially when doing a cold start.  The air is blowing up from the bottom and the air which passes over it does not even include any heat coming off the heat exchanger or even all the radiant heat off the full main part of the furnace.  If you mount it higher up in the plenum it will see hotter air from the whole furnace plus the heat exchanger.  Hot air rises, it doesn't go sideways  ;-) Daryl knows this but it's a UL listing thing, as he has to have it mounted and wired in order to get UL listed I guess.



That is exactly what Daryl just told me - he said it should absolutely go higher onto the bonnet - if you can. He said if they sold the bonnet with the furnace, it would be installed higher by default.


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 7, 2016)

I would move the sensor to the back side of where you show.  This way the sensor is actually over the top of the furnace due to the angle of your plenum and it will see a better representation of the temp coming off the furnace.  As Daryl already probably mentioned, you will most likely need to raise your low limit as well, as you will notice the fan running almost all the time with it set at 100°.  I have mine set at 115° with my sensor moved.  May put it down to 110° when/if we get some real cold weather though.


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## Monaco (Jan 7, 2016)

JRHAWK9 said:


> I would move the sensor to the back side of where you show.  This way the sensor is actually over the top of the furnace due to the angle of your plenum and it will see a better representation of the temp coming off the furnace.  As Daryl already probably mentioned, you will most likely need to raise your low limit as well, as you will notice the fan running almost all the time with it set at 100°.  I have mine set at 115° with my sensor moved.  May put it down to 110° when/if we get some real cold weather though.


Thanks - very good points - I'll move it to the back side. I'll enjoy being able to access the thing without a pocket mirror and double-jointed elves :D


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## STIHLY DAN (Jan 7, 2016)

Monaco said:


> This morning there were a LOT of coals, so I loaded over top of them. About 3 hours later, the high temp came on. Daryl said the right idea is to always scrape the back



How could you not do this Mr. There is even  pictorial Directions on the front of the unit, along with the provided tool. I thought they put that there for the wives.


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 7, 2016)

STIHLY DAN said:


> How could you not do this Mr. There is even  pictorial Directions on the front of the unit, along with the provided tool. I thought they put that there for the wives.



lol.....someone had to say what all of us Kuuma owners were thinking  ;-)


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## Monaco (Jan 7, 2016)

STIHLY DAN said:


> How could you not do this Mr. There is even  pictorial Directions on the front of the unit, along with the provided tool. I thought they put that there for the wives.


Duly noted 

I had never seen so much coals before. Presented with the unknown, I shrugged and raked "most" of them forward thinking "well, I'm sure it doesn't have to be EXACTLY like the illustration


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## STIHLY DAN (Jan 7, 2016)

The low limit at a lower temp will allow you to get more heat from those coals so you can reload later. I get it when it doesn't get as cold at night as the weather men say and load to much wood in. I load for time, especially at night because the morning is up and out. No dilly dallying.


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 11, 2016)

Had our first cold spell of the winter on Saturday night and all day Sunday.  It made it down to -1° Saturday night and never got above 1° on Sunday.  The house was 72°-74° the whole day Sunday.  Sat around in my skibbies watching football all day....lol  It was -4° by 10pm Sunday and by midnight it was -7° and when I got up Monday morning at 6:30am it was -14°.   The house was 71° at midnight and was 65° when I got up Monday morning with coals in the furnace and the blower cycling.  This is with my relocated low limit switch set at 115°.  I dropped it to 110° this morning in order to get a bit more heat out of it at the end of the burn cycle.


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## STIHLY DAN (Jan 11, 2016)

What time did you load it on sunday night.


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 12, 2016)

I almost always load for the night around 9:30 - 10pm.  I knew what the temps were at midnight because my digital indoor/outdoor thermo I have clears the highs and lows for the day at midnight.


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 13, 2016)

This may (or may not...lol) help some of you guys.  Like was mentioned before, I have thermometers placed in my cold air return (at the blower box) and in my supply plenum.  I monitor these just for my own sanity and to get a grasp on what's all happening and help me improve things if possible.  My cold air is not tied into my existing cold air because I want to have the ability to run both the wood and LP furnaces at the same time and you can't do that when they share the same return.  Therefore I use a centrally located open stair case for my cold air.  Up until last night, I didn't have any ducting attached to the blower box, it was just an open filter with it sucking in air off the basement floor.

Anyway, in these sub zero temps we have been having, I noticed my cold air temp at the blower box were running ~5° colder than the house temp upstairs.  I did not remember noticing this back when the weather was not quite as cold.  I also noticed the temps near the ceiling of the basement were consistently hovering around 80°+ as long as their was a fire in the furnace.  Even when the fire is at the end of the burn cycle and there's just coals left, the temp at the ceiling was still mid 70's in these sub zero temps.

So, what I did was box out and raise the intake of the cold air to almost the bottom of the TGI rafters.  It's 16"x18" and about 6' in height.  I'm now pulling in much warmer air and hence my plenum temps have noticeably increased.

Last night it was -4° at 9:30pm when I went to bed after loading it up with 70lbs.  It was -6° at midnight and when I woke up at 6:30am it was -9°.  The house was 68° at midnight and 67° when I got up in the morning.  The blower was still running when I got up and there were plenty of coals in the furnace 9 hours later.  I even had the blower on high the whole night, which I could never do before because the plenum temps would get too low.

I'm now going to play around with my SP's again to see if I can drop my supply SP a bit seeing I raised it last winter in order to bring my plenum temp up some.  I believe right now my supply SP is +0.22" with the fan on low.  Would be nice if I could increase my CFM w/o decreasing my plenum temp much.  I'm also guessing, with the addition of the new cold air duct, my return SP also increased a bit even though it's 288 sq inches and only ~6' in length.

Keep in mind, this house used to use ~1300 - 1500 gallons of LP a year......so it's not the most efficient to heat LOL

Anyway, I would have never noticed this if I didn't have thermometers placed to monitor temps.  I believe doing so really helps in getting your system dialed in.


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## brenndatomu (Jan 13, 2016)

JRHAWK9 said:


> So, what I did was box out and raise the intake of the cold air to almost the bottom of the TGI rafters. It's 16"x18" and about 6' in height. I'm now pulling in much warmer air and hence my plenum temps have noticeably increased.


Hmm, I may hafta try that, wouldn't be too hard. After all, my Tundra heats the furnace room better than any other room in the house


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## buckdroppings (Jan 13, 2016)

I can't tell you how helpful this thread has been in helping me decide what to do in my home. My wife and I have been remodeling our home for about seven years, ranch on a basement. We installed a new LP furnace upon purchase to replace the original that came with the home. We primarily heat with a homemade wood stove in the basement which could not be more dirty and inefficient. I've looked at the Kuuma for a couple of years but haven't been confident enough to move forward. We recently started to rearrange some of our remodeling to include a zero clearance fire place on the first floor, for looks and better heat. Yesterday I reminded myself about the Kuuma and started looking up info again. If I can figure out how I can get a chimney ran from where I have to put the Kuuma it will be a done deal. There will be no zero clearance fire place.


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 13, 2016)

Here's my static pressure numbers.  I have a 24"x10" duct connecting the plenum (24"x24"x39" tall) to my existing 20"x10" main trunk line.  Up until tonight, I had a 3.5"x24" "restrictor" placed in my 24x10 duct in order to increase static pressure.  This gave me a supply SP of 0.17" or so.  If I don't run any type of restriction, my SP is 0.11".  Tonight I trimmed the restrictor to 2.5"x24" and my SP dropped to 0.15" or so. 

This is where I'm currently at:
Low speed blower:  return SP is -0.13" and supply SP is +0.15"
High speed blower:  return SP is -0.17" and supply SP is +0.22"

I'm going to see how these work.  Don't know if these are good, bad or indifferent, but that's where they are currently.  Thought I'd try a bit less supply static pressure for the added CFM. 

Comments?


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 15, 2016)

brenndatomu said:


> Hmm, I may hafta try that, wouldn't be too hard. After all, my Tundra heats the furnace room better than any other room in the house



Another thing you may want to look at is sucking some of the heat off the face of the furnace into the cold air to help increase the temp a bit more.

I tried this last night with a couple runs of 4" drier vent just to see how it works.  I placed one end near the face of the furnace and the other end inside the return air "box" just upstream of the filter.  It definitely increased the temp of the return air entering the furnace.  This, in addition to raising the height of the return air intake, not only increases the temp entering, but also seems keep the temp of the return air more consistent during the end of the burn.  At least in my house it does seeing in cold weather the house seems to drop when the fire starts to die out.  Keeping the air entering the furnace consistently warmer seems to greatly reduce the snowball effect at the end of the burn.  By snowball effect I mean when return air temp decreases which in turn decreases the supply temp which decreases the house temp which starts the snowball effect.  

We've had a warmer spell yesterday and today, but this weekends forecast as of now is -15° Sat night, a high Sunday of -8° and a low Sunday night -15° and a low Monday night -11°.  I'll have some time to see what difference it makes.  One thing to note, I haven't noticed any real difference in basement temp by doing these two things either.  The furnace room is still 75°+ while the rest of the basement is high 60's.


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## DaveH (Jan 18, 2016)

New 24X8 return put in this weekend. Furnace runs completely different. Outside temperature high has been in low 20s and the house is 70-72 without issue. 

To compound the issue of too small duct work, the craftsmanship was horrifying. I am the second owner of the home, and I wish I knew who did the install so I could warn others. 

The oddest portion is at the very end of my supply there was a run of flex duct. I'm told the end needs to be capped in order for pressure to build throughout the trunk, strike 1. To make it worse the flex T's and ties into two registers. I ripped the extra section of flex off and found it wasn't even tied together in any way. A 4 foot piece of flex was taped to the side of another piece of insulated flex duct, no metal T, no hole, just taped together, flex duct taped to foil cover. To pass inspection or they just got lazy I'm guessing.  I never thought I had to disconnect the duct work connections to ensure they actually moved air.


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## STIHLY DAN (Jan 18, 2016)

Keep in mind all supply ductwork needs to be metal.


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## DaveH (Jan 18, 2016)

STIHLY DAN said:


> Keep in mind all supply ductwork needs to be metal.



The flex duct is disconnected and being replaced.  I understand that manufacturers don't want flex duct, but this was almost 40 ft from the furnace.


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## STIHLY DAN (Jan 18, 2016)

That's good to hear. keep in mind during a power outage 40 ft away still gets very hot. I have seen/tried it.


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