# PB-105 Burnpot Revisited



## Centurion (Oct 16, 2013)

I haven't been here all summer so I am not sure if there has been further discussion regarding the PB105 burn pot issues. I just scored a new burn pot from Harman that is much heavier than the one that is presently in my boiler and much thicker stainless steel. It has 3 narrow slots cut thru on the top of the burn pot where the bubble used to form which I was told would allow for predictable expansion and contraction of the steel and  there are also fewer welds than the older burn pot. If this is old news, please disregard but if not I can post pictures and steel gauge changes if requested.


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## wil lanfear (Oct 16, 2013)

Please post some photos of your new burnpot. The photo below is of my new burnpot that was installed on 3/5/2012, no bubble or cracks to date.

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s216/vtreloader/DSC00036.jpg


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## Centurion (Oct 17, 2013)

wil lanfear said:


> Please post some photos of your new burnpot. The photo below is of my new burnpot that was installed on 3/5/2012, no bubble or cracks to date.
> 
> http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s216/vtreloader/DSC00036.jpg


 
I believe it looks just like your Will except I can't see if it has the 3 slits cut into it.  I see that ICE has the pictures posted of his new burnpot which is just what mine looks like.  He and I purchased our boilers from the same dealer so must be he got a call for a new burnpot right after me.  Sure is a lot beefier weighing in at 8.8 lbs.  Thanks for the reply Will.  Hopefully this is the end of the saga 

Take care....John


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## katman (Oct 18, 2013)

John, did your dealer call and offer to replace the burnpot or were you having problems and bought the replacement?


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## Centurion (Oct 18, 2013)

katman said:


> John, did your dealer call and offer to replace the burnpot or were you having problems and bought the replacement?


Oh yes Katman, like Will, in the 5 years that I owned the boiler I had to replace the burnpot every year because of the bubble.  The replacements were always graciously provided at no charge and I installed them myself.  This new replacement was also no charge and was offered to me even before the present one failed.  I will keep my fingers crossed that this new one is the last one I will have to replace. 
John


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## Mr._Graybeard (Oct 18, 2013)

I got a new burnpot from the dealer in August. Unfortunately, it looks like a prior design -- possibly like the one you reported receiving last February. Hope this one does the job for you!


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## Centurion (Oct 18, 2013)

Mr._Graybeard said:


> I got a new burnpot from the dealer in August. Unfortunately, it looks like a prior design -- possibly like the one you reported receiving last February. Hope this one does the job for you!


 Me too Graybeard.  The new one is much more massive in design and Wil has had his in service since last March and said so far so good.  That is promising for sure!  I was told though that this new burnpot is still an experiment and may only given to those folks that have a high failure rate.  I'm sure that when Harman engineering is satisfied that they have the answer that anyone who still has an issue will be contacted by their dealer.  The odd thing about this issue is that not all folks are having the problem so it's possible that they may never get a phone call.


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## iceguy4 (Oct 18, 2013)

Centurion said:


> Me too Graybeard.  The new one is much more massive in design and Wil has had his in service since last March and said so far so good.  That is promising for sure!  I was told though that this new burnpot is still an experiment and may only given to those folks that have a high failure rate.  I'm sure that when Harman engineering is satisfied that they have the answer that anyone who still has an issue will be contacted by their dealer.  The odd thing about this issue is that not all folks are having the problem so it's possible that they may never get a phone call.


  Centurion,
Does yours have the holes in the side? I am very curious how those holes on the side are gonna change the burn. Seems to me without having them side by side this new one has a LOT more air holes. Have you burned with it yet?   Your thoughts...
                        Also as far as I can see my old burnpot is flawless.  I was called "out of the clear blue" and told he had a pot for me. this works out great as I wanted an old cracked pot so o can look into getting the proper metal and rebuild one. If I cant weld it I have several connections in local welding shops I expect to be running it like 30% or so harder this year.   I'm gonna lay in 9 tons of pellets and expect to have to buy more.


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## Centurion (Oct 18, 2013)

iceguy4 said:


> Centurion,
> Does yours have the holes in the side? I am very curious how those holes on the side are gonna change the burn. Seems to me without having them side by side this new one has a LOT more air holes. Have you burned with it yet?   Your thoughts...
> Also as far as I can see my old burnpot is flawless.  I was called "out of the clear blue" and told he had a pot for me. this works out great as I wanted an old cracked pot so o can look into getting the proper metal and rebuild one. If I cant weld it I have several connections in local welding shops I expect to be running it like 30% or so harder this year.   I'm gonna lay in 9 tons of pellets and expect to have to buy more.


 
Hello Ice, long time since I've heard from you.  Yet, mine looks just like the pictures that you posted.  Ed called me and said he had a gift for me so I stopped by and picked it up.  He said that because I have had so many fail that I am now a "Tester"!  Sounds like you are now a tester too .   I haven't installed it yet as I just picked it up on Tuesday but I hope to this weekend.  I'll let you know when I get it done.  I have 10 tons stacked in the basement now which I should have at least 3 left over for next winter.


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## exoilburner (Oct 20, 2013)

Got a new burnpot from Harman for my PF100 pellet furnace a couple of weeks ago.  It's the same as the old ones.


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## Centurion (Oct 21, 2013)

exoilburner said:


> Got a new burnpot from Harman for my PF100 pellet furnace a couple of weeks ago.  It's the same as the old ones.


 I replaced the old burnpot with this new one this weekend and as usual very simple and quick. Interestingly, this new burnpot weighs 8.8 lbs and the old one weighs 6.6lbs.  That is a significant difference plus along with some other obvious design changes, hopefully this new one will be a success!  Between Wil and I and others I'm sure there will be timely updates.


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## iceguy4 (Oct 21, 2013)

Centurion said:


> I replaced the old burnpot with this new one this weekend and as usual very simple and quick. Interestingly, this new burnpot weighs 8.8 lbs and the old one weighs 6.6lbs.  That is a significant difference plus along with some other obvious design changes, hopefully this new one will be a success!  Between Wil and I and others I'm sure there will be timely updates.


  how does the flame look?


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## Centurion (Oct 23, 2013)

iceguy4 said:


> how does the flame look?


I don't see a diff in the flame Ice.  I have no idea what purpose the side configuration is for.  If anyone has that info I would like to here about it.


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## katman (Oct 23, 2013)

I'm trying to resist having burnpot envy!  Last year was my first full season with the pb 105 and I didn't notice a bubble in my original burnpot so I guess I should be happy.  However, I'm going to see if I can get it to burn a little hotter this year.  Will see what happens.


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## ScotL (Oct 23, 2013)

Same here. My PB105 has the original burnpot from when I bought it in 2008. You're making me jealous of your shiny new stuff. I can already see it now. Mine will develop a problem just as the warranty runs out and I'll have to buy one of those shiny new ones.


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## Kevrev (Oct 24, 2013)

Hi everyone, new to the site. I just had a pb105 installed 3 weeks ago. I already have a bubble in the burn pot and have had 3 separate explosions, in which it has filled the basement full of smoke. Any ideas how to fix?  Disappointing after the money spent! Excited to burn pellets......just frustrated.  Thanks for your time and help.
Kevrev


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## ScotL (Oct 24, 2013)

Those happen when the ignitor is working poorly (could have ash in it or the holes above it blocked). It takes too long to ignite and builds up a lot of wood gas in the stove. So when it does ignite, it's with a BOOM. The explosive ignition overpowers the combustion air and pushes smoke back out the air intake.


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## katman (Oct 24, 2013)

Kevrev, my experience is the same as what Scot said.  check to make sure all is clean, particularly no fines around the ignitor.


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## Mr._Graybeard (Oct 24, 2013)

I've suspected that the burnpot bubble is related to the igniter as well -- nothing to back that up, just the observation that heat rises  and the fact that the igniter is below the spot where the bubble forms.

Kevrev has a brand new unit -- I doubt that it's plugged with ash or fines already. Sounds like a defect on delivery. Call the Harman retailer and have them make it right.


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## Kevrev (Oct 24, 2013)

Thanks for the feedback fellas. Ever since the first KABOOM, I've scraped the burn pot every day. Also checked under the burn pot, not much fines build up. The burn pot was chocked full of pellets and even pushed pellets into the ash pan.I'm just confused by the fact that it will run for a week with no issues and then it happens out of the blue. Dealer is in contact with Harmon now... so we will see. Thanks again for the comments. I'll keep you posted.


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## Centurion (Oct 24, 2013)

Kevrev said:


> Thanks for the feedback fellas. Ever since the first KABOOM, I've scraped the burn pot every day. Also checked under the burn pot, not much fines build up. The burn pot was chocked full of pellets and even pushed pellets into the ash pan.I'm just confused by the fact that it will run for a week with no issues and then it happens out of the blue. Dealer is in contact with Harmon now... so we will see. Thanks again for the comments. I'll keep you posted.


 Also check all your door gaskets including the one that surrounds the burn pot for integrity.  I seem to remember someone having an ash door gasket that failed causing the same results as you have experienced.  There are a lot of folks on this forum that have the PB-105 that may have experienced this same issue so perhaps they will chime in.  Personally I have never had the problem.


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## iceguy4 (Oct 24, 2013)

Kevrev said:


> Hi everyone, new to the site. I just had a pb105 installed 3 weeks ago. I already have a bubble in the burn pot and have had 3 separate explosions, in which it has filled the basement full of smoke. Any ideas how to fix?  Disappointing after the money spent! Excited to burn pellets......just frustrated.  Thanks for your time and help.
> Kevrev


   Unit just installed? if it was new the dealer should be called. as for the burn pot having a bubble after 3 weeks of very low use (it hasent been cold enough to actually get a good workout).  I suspect you must have a used unit (new to you) that came with a bubble started. I find it very hard to digest a burn pot would go south so soon.    Also there is a rule of this forum..."no pic's...it didn't happen"    Please fill us in ....details


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## Centurion (Oct 24, 2013)

ScotL said:


> Same here. My PB105 has the original burnpot from when I bought it in 2008. You're making me jealous of your shiny new stuff. I can already see it now. Mine will develop a problem just as the warranty runs out and I'll have to buy one of those shiny new ones.


 Hey Scot, what are you using as a vent, a thru the wall or a full size chimney?


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## Mr._Graybeard (Oct 24, 2013)

Ice, I believe the burnpot in my boiler had a noticeable bulge in it a month or so after I fired it up for the first time, so the bubble can show up pretty quickly. I knew that others had had the problem from lurking on this forum, so I let my dealer know right away. It started to show cracks around March, IIRC. My dealer swapped in a new pot this summer as a warrantied repair when I had him service the unit.

You're right, though -- I assumed that Kevrev has a new boiler when he didn't specify that.


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## iceguy4 (Oct 24, 2013)

iceguy4 said:


> Kevrev


 


Mr._Graybeard said:


> Ice, I believe the burnpot in my boiler had a noticeable bulge in it a month or so after I fired it up for the first time, so the bubble can show up pretty quickly. I knew that others had had the problem from lurking on this forum, so I let my dealer know right away. It started to show cracks around March, IIRC. My dealer swapped in a new pot this summer as a warrantied repair when I had him service the unit.
> 
> You're right, though -- I assumed that Kevrev has a new boiler when he didn't specify that.


 wow 
I stand corrected    There HAS to be  a common denominator..   My signature pretty much sums up my usage  7 + tons pellets from mid December to end of season. My burn pot looks un changed in any significant way.  my vent goes up 5' ...90° ...then straight out 5'...most of the season OAK.. I have a pressure igniter. I'm very curious . Maybe if everyone posts their setup, it will stand out.   Kevrev,, how does your setup compare to  Mr.  Graybeard's setup.?
  Also Centurian and I have the newer style (Pic's in https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/harman-burnpot-just-got-a-new-floating-floor-style-pics.115575/      thread. Centurian has installed his and I was gonna...but I'm not gonna rush.. I'm kinda thinking..."if it aint broke, don't fix it"...or I remember another saying...US Military..."If it aint broke, fix it till it is!"


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## Mr._Graybeard (Oct 24, 2013)

For comparison purposes, my boiler is direct vented, no OAK. The exhaust vent rises 5.5 feet and has a 9-foot horizontal run to the outside.

I burned about six tons last year -- four tons softwood, the rest hardwood and blends -- and maintained the stove regularly. Firepot scraped every couple days, traps cleaned every week or so, combustion fan checked and leaf blower trick about halfway through the season.

Last year we had a fairly mild fall here, which means the boiler got to cool down a bit during the day. That might mean the burnpot saw some fairly wide temperature swings, especially at the spot closest to the igniter. I have had the minimum temp dial set at 140 -- I think I'm going to raise it a bit, to 150 (max is at 160 right now). When winter really sets in I'll bump it to 180/160.


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## ScotL (Oct 25, 2013)

Centurion said:


> Hey Scot, what are you using as a vent, a thru the wall or a full size chimney?


Mine is through the cement wall. It's about 5 feet vertical, then about 6 feet horizontal - going through the cement at around the 4 foot mark, then another 4 to 5 feet vertical outside with a rain cap. All in 4".

Also, I recently attached a flexible 4" line with a 4" to 3" reducer at the air intake. I had to go with 4" because it was starving for air with 3" (too long a run) and even with 4 I partially unhook it during the coldest parts of winter because it will sound like a helicopter when it doesn't get enough oxygen. The only reason I added the semi-OAK was because I don't always clean it regularly and this way the smoke from a bad ignition gets, mostly, blown outside.


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## Centurion (Oct 25, 2013)

iceguy4 said:


> wow
> I stand corrected    There HAS to be  a common denominator..   My signature pretty much sums up my usage  7 + tons pellets from mid December to end of season. My burn pot looks un changed in any significant way.  my vent goes up 5' ...90° ...then straight out 5'...most of the season OAK.. I have a pressure igniter. I'm very curious . Maybe if everyone posts their setup, it will stand out.   Kevrev,, how does your setup compare to  Mr.  Graybeard's setup.?
> Also Centurion and I have the newer style (Pic's in https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/harman-burnpot-just-got-a-new-floating-floor-style-pics.115575/      thread. Centurion has installed his and I was gonna...but I'm not gonna rush.. I'm kinda thinking..."if it aint broke, don't fix it"...or I remember another saying...US Military..."If it aint broke, fix it till it is!"


 You are correct Ice, there has to be a common denominator for those folks that have this problem.  I've wondered if it could be related to the draft that one has from the chimney.  I kind of look at the burnpot issue like a blacksmith with his bellows, fire and the steel. You have a very hot fire and coals inside the burnpot and you have a draft entering the firepot.  More draft more heat, more heat more metal deflection, more deflection more metal fatigue.  I would say that it also greatly affects the temper of the steel as well.  When you look at the burnpot you can see that the coals are white hot.  I have a strong draft from my chimney, which I try to control, but that is why I was thinking that this may be the issue.  Apparently it is not that simple though as there seems to be folks out there with this issue and have just a thru-the-wall vent so the only draft they will have is from the draft fan.  Whatever the issue is I hope this new burnpot is the answer


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## ScotL (Oct 25, 2013)

I've recently been working with some large biomass combustor designers. One thing I remember them saying is the moving grates they use are specially designed with a specific chrome content. It was important enough that they mentioned it twice but there was so much other information that I don't remember the exact metallurgy now.

With all the air holes in the new burnpots, it looks like they've determined that the problem is not enough airflow to pull the heat up and away from the steel.


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## iceguy4 (Oct 25, 2013)

ScotL said:


> I've recently been working with some large biomass combustor designers. One thing I remember them saying is the moving grates they use are specially designed with a specific chrome content. It was important enough that they mentioned it twice but there was so much other information that I don't remember the exact metallurgy now.
> 
> With all the air holes in the new burnpots, it looks like they've determined that the problem is not enough airflow to pull the heat up and away from the steel.


   I agree scott...Harman has added extra holes. Could it be they are trying to lessen the velocity  of the air at that point(where the bubble forms)?  Personally, I think its is about the all mighty $$$ and they are using a lesser quality metal for the burn pots.


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## iceguy4 (Oct 25, 2013)

Centurion said:


> You are correct Ice, there has to be a common denominator


   I found the common denominator!   common denominator  is.....drum roll please.....If you have a PB 105, your GONNA have burn pot problems.   Just discovered a bubble in my burn pot.    Gonna switch out my burnpot today and fix my old one.  I'm very unhappy.   Now my bulk feeder likes to make sawdust outa the pellets...this morning I wake up to a stove not burning...7 blinks (no such thing ...BUT I can fu%^$ing count)  I'm selling my new accentra (  http://albany.craigslist.org/app/4150424724.html  )  I am not at all happy with my stove or Harman.  I'll pull this POS out  and move south. I don't need this aggravation..    did I say I'm not happy?


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## Mr._Graybeard (Oct 25, 2013)

iceguy4 said:


> Personally, I think its is about the all mighty $$$ and they are using a lesser quality metal for the burn pots.



This is certainly true. I can't blame them too much -- nobody overengineers anything anymore. I like the idea you have about rebuilding a pot with heat-resistant steel ... but I'll wait until I have to pay for one.

Sorry to hear about your burnpot (and other pellet-burner problems).


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## ScotL (Oct 25, 2013)

I'm going to have to keep a closer eye on mine now.
Do you know what you're going to use to try and fix it? 310 stainless?


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## wil lanfear (Oct 25, 2013)

Common sense tells me that the alloy being used to make these burnpots doesn't have a heat resistance value high enough for the heat generated in the combustion area, no stainless steel alloy does. I mentioned this to my dealer, I've mentioned this to the Harman folks when they came and looked at my boiler, I believe they are trying to find a less costly answer rather than using a alloy such as in the links below.

http://www.sandmeyersteel.com/A600.html

http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?id=880&step=2&top_cat=131

Hey Ice,  If you are replacing the burn pot for the first time consider yourself lucky, I've replaced mine way over 20 times, I've lost count. IMHO, I think Harman is getting closer to resolving the burnpot issue but I'm not sure if the stainless alloy that they are using will withstand the heat for the long period of time. (years)


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## ScotL (Oct 25, 2013)

310 stainless is rated for 1150C. http://www.azom.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=966

There's always tungsten. http://www.azom.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=1201
I can't imagine how difficult that must be to work with - and expensive.


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## iceguy4 (Oct 25, 2013)

replaced my burn pot today. Old pot had 124 holes...new one has 140+ ...not including the sides.  The holes look bigger too


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## Mr._Graybeard (Oct 26, 2013)

Interesting to see that they built the cracks in this design.


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## Former Farmer (Nov 2, 2013)

Picked up a new style burnpot from my dealer today and installed it.  

I noticed on the box it said 309 stainless.    

Off of AK Steel's website :
"These materials are generally considered heat-resisting alloys. Their destructive scaling temperature
is about 2000 °F (1093 °C). They exhibit good scaling resistance in both continuous and intermittent
service, but the alloys should not be used above 1800 °F (982 °C) for intermittent service."


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## Former Farmer (Nov 2, 2013)

Here is a copy of the service bulletin from Harman that came with the burnpot.


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## Mr._Graybeard (Nov 2, 2013)

Former Farmer said:


> Here is a copy of the service bulletin from Harman that came with the burnpot.
> 
> View attachment 116549


Thanks for posting! I saved a copy of this. 

Go Pack!


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## exoilburner (Nov 3, 2013)

Former Farmer said:


> Here is a copy of the service bulletin from Harman that came with the burnpot.
> 
> View attachment 116549


 
Awesome!  Thanks again.  Very helpful.


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## Pellet_Dog (Nov 5, 2013)

Former Farmer said:


> Here is a copy of the service bulletin from Harman that came with the burnpot.
> 
> View attachment 116549



Thanks for the literature! It's nice to see one can still use the new burnpot with cartridge ignitors to avoid the expensive upgrade to the forced air inline heater!


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## exoilburner (Nov 9, 2013)

Former Farmer said:


> Here is a copy of the service bulletin from Harman that came with the burnpot.
> 
> View attachment 116549


 Harmon just sent me a replacement burn pot.  But they sent old original design.  Showed a copy of Former Farmer's service bulleting in to my dealer and now they are sending a new design burn pot to replace the old one. 

Thanks again Former Farmer.  You were a  big help here.  But I that is what this forum is all about.  What a gold mine of information.  So thanks to webbie too.


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## iceguy4 (Nov 10, 2013)

exoilburner said:


> Harmon just sent me a replacement burn pot.  But they sent old original design.  Showed a copy of Former Farmer's service bulleting in to my dealer and now they are sending a new design burn pot to replace the old one.
> 
> Thanks again Former Farmer.  You were a  big help here.  But I that is what this forum is all about.  What a gold mine of information.  So thanks to webbie too.


 
 Well I changed my setup because my "Greene Supremes " sometimes will have problems lighting (smokey over feed)   rather then to mess with dip switches I chose this setup. 


   First I installed a 24 ' "dump zone"
   second, I switched to "manual ignition"
   third, hooked up "outside air temp sensor"(my thought ...in warmer weather , boiler slowing down at lower temp will give more "cushion" before over temp)
  As of last night it worked perfectly... (it was rather warm out too)

 As for my burnpot, , just maybe  the lack of "heat cool" cycles will help....
Thoughts?


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## mousenut (Nov 10, 2013)

I scrape my burnpot when the hopper gets under 40lbs, every few days.  After thirty or so bags on my new burnpot, it is already forming a bubble.  I think I will take a copy of the bulletin to the dealer and see what they have to say.  This was the burnpot they gave me in September, same look as the old one just has a stainless top I guess.


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## iceguy4 (Nov 10, 2013)

mousenut said:


> I scrape my burnpot when the hopper gets under 40lbs, every few days.  After thirty or so bags on my new burnpot, it is already forming a bubble.  I think I will take a copy of the bulletin to the dealer and see what they have to say.  This was the burnpot they gave me in September, same look as the old one just has a stainless top I guess.


   Thank god we have this forum...with out,...there is no doubt in my mind , dealers would be saying " never herd of this" , "you're doing something wrong"  ,"you're pushing your stove too hard"...etc.


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## exoilburner (Nov 18, 2013)

Former Farmer said:


> Here is a copy of the service bulletin from Harman that came with the burnpot.
> 
> View attachment 116549


Just received the new design burn pot and am doing the install myself.

FORMER FARMER:  did you do your new burnpot install or watch them install it?  The new electric igniter holder & Ceramic insert is really a pain to install.  I had to enlongate the mounting holes in the holder to get the new ceramic insert in place. 
When I put a new igniter in the holder it's fins were hard against the holder and burn pot.  I have seen in another post that this condition causes a heat sink on the igniter, lowers it's temp. and makes ignition long and difficult.  I modified the holder so the igniter fins were not touching anything.  With the old igniter holder I used to be able to change the igniter thru the burnpot access plate.  With this new set-up I'll have to remove the burn pot to change the igniter.


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## Former Farmer (Nov 18, 2013)

I didn't have any problems installing mine.  I DID NOT use the ceramic insert.  Did not see the need to use it as it would have been a tight fit.  I can still replace my finned igniter without having to remove the burn pot.


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## Centurion (Nov 18, 2013)

You would only use the ceramic insulator if you were using a pressure ignition system.  As you are still using the fin igniter you can disregard the ceramic insulator.


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## wantageNJryan (Nov 18, 2013)

How important is that insulator??  I have another thread called "creosote" which has my newbie pb105 issue but another is see is that ceramic is flaking apart  ease excuse the creosote....thats a whole other story which i hope to be getting a handle on.........


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## wantageNJryan (Nov 18, 2013)




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## Centurion (Nov 18, 2013)

If I recall correctly it directs the ignition hot air into the burnpot


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## wantageNJryan (Nov 18, 2013)

My dealer is coming out to help me with my draft setup.  Ill ask him about the ceramic and the burnpot.  My unit is right off the crate in september and i dont have the new burn pot either....


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## exoilburner (Nov 18, 2013)

Centurion said:


> You would only use the ceramic insulator if you were using a pressure ignition system.  As you are still using the fin igniter you can disregard the ceramic insulator.


 
You may be correct but the ceramic insulator sure does a good job keeping the igniter from flopping around in its bracket slot. It keeps the igniter fins away from the surface of the burn pot too.

I have had difficulties with the igniter starting the pellets so am trying to keep the igniter fins from touching anything to keep from draining any heat heat from the igniter.  Guess I'll find out when it's installed.


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## Bill Bennion (Nov 19, 2013)

I just installed my new burn pot this weekend, it went fairly easy.  I checked with my dealer and they said that the ceramic insert was just for the pressure ignition. The nuts for the igniter holder are a little hard to access but it worked.  So far it is burning well.


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## exoilburner (Nov 20, 2013)

Thanks for the info on the ceramic insert.  I'm going to leave my insert on the finned igniter and see how it works.  Seems to me it would be better on it than off.  But I could be all wet.  I used the old nuts to mount the igniter bracket.  The new ones are kind of cheesy.


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## iceguy4 (Jan 6, 2014)

Didn't want to start a new thread...just checked my new burnpot....its puuurrrrrrfect.  I have been running it hard in manual


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## Centurion (Jan 6, 2014)

Same here!  Just cleaned her out last nite and pot looks the same as when I installed it.


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## iceguy4 (Jan 6, 2014)

Centurion said:


> Same here!  Just cleaned her out last nite and pot looks the same as when I installed it.


 I'm maybe 4 tons through mine...you?   Also I got a call today from ed...he was checking up on it


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## SmokeEater (Jan 6, 2014)

I have the pre pressure ignitor model 105 and, knock on wood (no pun intended), I have no burnpot issues as of this date.  Have burned about 18 tons of pellets so fall and all have been blended Currans, except for a few bags bought at TS last year.  I clean the burnpot every Saturday and ream out the holes in the burnpot with a hand held drill bit.  I have the boiler set for 160/185 and I rarely see it below 180.  Four foot vertical rise and then 5 feet to a 6" stainless liner on a 30 foot vertical rise.  There is a manual damper in the 6" section.  All air pressures are set each year with a Magnahelic gauge according to Harman specs.


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## Centurion (Jan 6, 2014)

About 3 tons Ice.  Keeping my fingers crossed!


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## Pellet_Dog (Jan 7, 2014)

iceguy4 said:


> Didn't want to start a new thread...just checked my new burnpot....its puuurrrrrrfect.  I have been running it hard in manual


 

This is good news! I am still on the orignial burn pot, installed in 2010, but it has a noticeable bump forming with no cracks and is still usable. I think after the heating season is done I'll take some pictures and bring them to the dealer to see if I can get one of these new design burn pots as a replacement. Do you guys think I will have any trouble getting a replacement under warranty or will I have to pay for it?


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## Centurion (Jan 7, 2014)

To date Harman has covered these even if out of warranty.  I don't think that you will have a problem.


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## ScotL (Jan 7, 2014)

Mine has a bump too but no crack. I was told by my dealer that it wouldn't be replaced until it cracked.


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## Centurion (Jan 7, 2014)

I don't believe that.  Harman knows that they have a problem.  Like my dealer use to be, your dealer probably is not aware of the issue.  I would print out some of the discussions from this forum and show it to him so he is aware of the burnpot  issue.  Search this forum for PB-105 burnpot bubble and you will find several pages of discussion and pictures.  This is how I educated my dealer.


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## thro9 (Jan 30, 2014)

I'm possibly switching over to a PB105 since I've realized that the PB60 is too small to heat my home.  I have an oil boiler backup in place now but would like to know some of the pro's and con's on the PB105.  Any info is greatly appreciated.


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## Centurion (Feb 1, 2014)

thro9 said:


> I'm possibly switching over to a PB105 since I've realized that the PB60 is too small to heat my home.  I have an oil boiler backup in place now but would like to know some of the pro's and con's on the PB105.  Any info is greatly appreciated.


 
Now that the burnpot issue appears to be solved, I don't think you can go wrong with it.  It is a good, medium priced, easy to clean and fairly simple boiler that has cut my heating and domestic water bills in half.  I am 100% pleased with it.  Good luck.


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## iceguy4 (Feb 1, 2014)

Centurion said:


> Now that the burnpot issue appears to be solved, I don't think you can go wrong with it.  It is a good, medium priced, easy to clean and fairly simple boiler that has cut my heating and domestic water bills in half.  I am 100% pleased with it.  Good luck.


 I believe it is fixed.  My new one has close to 7 tons put through it...looks like new.   I too LOVE my boiler and its looking like it will save me close to $3000.00 .....just this season  Also the "bulk hopper" will compliment ANY boiler/furnace....providing its a pellet burner...


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## Former Farmer (Feb 1, 2014)

I have run over 5 tons through my new style burnpot.  Just did cleaning today and it still looks in good shape.  I am still waiting to see how it performs this spring when the boiler will start cycling on and off again.


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## Centurion (Feb 1, 2014)

Former Farmer said:


> I have run over 5 tons through my new style burnpot.  Just did cleaning today and it still looks in good shape.  I am still waiting to see how it performs this spring when the boiler will start cycling on and off again.


 
Farmer, do you keep a fire in the burnpot 24/7?  That's very interesting to me.


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## Former Farmer (Feb 1, 2014)

This time of year, yes.  Between the in-floor heat, forced air heat, and DHW; the unit very seldom idles.  I have three in-floor zones that run off of one heat exchange system.  It is a poor setup, that I didn't know any better about when we built the house, compliments of our heating contractor.  It should have been 3 separate setups.  I have a PLC that I control the 3 zones with to make sure that no more than one zone will be heating even if all 3 are calling for heat at the same time.  The three zones are floor heating in the master bathroom, in-floor heat for the basement (75% of basement is finished off), and in-floor heat in the garage.  If the garage were to run while one of the others were on, this would actually cool down the other one as the garage is only kept at 45* and the return temperatures are very low.


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## Centurion (Feb 1, 2014)

Former Farmer said:


> This time of year, yes.  Between the in-floor heat, forced air heat, and DHW; the unit very seldom idles.  I have three in-floor zones that run off of one heat exchange system.  It is a poor setup, that I didn't know any better about when we built the house, compliments of our heating contractor.  It should have been 3 separate setups.  I have a PLC that I control the 3 zones with to make sure that no more than one zone will be heating even if all 3 are calling for heat at the same time.  The three zones are floor heating in the master bathroom, in-floor heat for the basement (75% of basement is finished off), and in-floor heat in the garage.  If the garage were to run while one of the others were on, this would actually cool down the other one as the garage is only kept at 45* and the return temperatures are very low.


 
So in the manual mode it would keep a small fire in the burnpot until the thermostat called for heat?  Then the fire would come up to satisfy the thermostat then return to a low fire?


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## iceguy4 (Feb 1, 2014)

Centurion said:


> So in the manual mode it would keep a small fire in the burnpot until the thermostat called for heat?  Then the fire would come up to satisfy the thermostat then return to a low fire?


Yes...but you better have a dump zone or it will overheat and shut off.   In another thread I posted observations...  yesterday my stove at idle ...auger on 3 seconds ...off 15 seconds ...when ramped up ...off 3 and on 14 seconds...


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## Former Farmer (Feb 1, 2014)

I have the unit in Auto mode. 

I believe that if you had the unit in manual mode, it would operate just as you say.  A person would have to make sure to have a dump zone if you ran in manual mode to make sure unit would not overheat.

Iceguy4 beat me to it.


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## Centurion (Feb 1, 2014)

Former Farmer said:


> I have the unit in Auto mode.
> 
> I believe that if you had the unit in manual mode, it would operate just as you say.  A person would have to make sure to have a dump zone if you ran in manual mode to make sure unit would not overheat.
> 
> Iceguy4 beat me to it.


 
Oh I see, you were saying that because of the load in cold weather it runs all the time in the AUTO mode but then in warmer temps it has a chance to cycle and shut down until the thermostat calls for heat.  I thought you were running it in the manual mode this time of year then switched it to auto in the spring.  Got it!


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## iceguy4 (Feb 12, 2014)

Centurion said:


> I thought you were running it in the manual mode this time of year




      Yes  since this fall , after having problems with it "lighting" (I caught it...pellets in ashpan) I decided to hook up a good "dump zone" (basement zone)  .  This I did with a relay hooked to the blue over heat wire ...then I piggybacked  it on to thermostat wire so both can operate that zone.  then I keep that thermostat set low so there is a reservoir of cold water  to cool the boiler off.   Even with the DEEP setback zones ...it hasn't overheated and shut off.  I suspect spring and fall I will want to switch to auto.


Update 1//12/14

Over 8 1/2 tons through new burnpot. Did a thorough cleaning of the burn pot...Looks perfect...  I'm kinda woundering  if its because I'm running in manual.   I suspect this spring (late) when I have to start using automatic  it may pucker up  I wonder if the heat cycles are the culprit...( actually I am VERY suspect it IS  just that)  Does anyone have some weight put through it in auto ignition mode?


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## SmokeEater (Feb 12, 2014)

iceguy4 said:


> Yes  since this fall , after having problems with it "lighting" (I caught it...pellets in ashpan) I decided to hook up a good "dump zone" (basement zone)  .  This I did with a relay hooked to the blue over heat wire ...then I piggybacked  it on to thermostat wire so both can operate that zone.  then I keep that thermostat set low so there is a reservoir of cold water  to cool the boiler off.   Even with the DEEP setback zones ...it hasn't overheated and shut off.  I suspect spring and fall I will want to switch to auto.
> 
> 
> Update 1//12/14
> ...



All of my pellet burn has been in the auto mode.  I have never run in manual and have put about 25 tons through the ORIGINAL burn pot.  No sign of bubbling or cracking between the air holes.  No puckering either.  I don't understand it, but so far Knock On Wood.


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## Mr._Graybeard (Feb 24, 2014)

Just to update, the second burnpot in my boiler has started to crack in the burn surface. It was NOT the new design, but a pot my dealer had in stock when he replaced the original. I will make a point of showing him a copy of the burnpot service bulletin before he installs the next one, and ask that he use the updated part.

I started to notice some slight warpage as early as Halloween last fall, but it didn't look too bad. In fact, the bubble in this pot is smaller than the one in the original. I believe Harman says some warpage is acceptable, but the cracks should win me a second replacement pot under warranty, I think. I'm going to drop in on my Harman dealer this afternoon and see what he has to say.


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## Former Farmer (Feb 24, 2014)

Good luck on getting the new style burnpot.  Hope you get one.  I installed mine at the beginning of the season and it still looks in very good shape.  I will see how it holds up now that the weather should start warming up. (Still below zero at night this week and beginning of next week).  I am wondering how the new style burnpot will hold up to the boiler starting more often.


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## Mr._Graybeard (Feb 24, 2014)

My opinion is that they take the worst beating during the shoulder seasons. I was running 24/7 through a good part of January, but I didn't see any cracking until the warmup earlier this month let the burnpot fire go out a couple times a day. 

I talked to my dealer today and let him know he'd be replacing the burnpot again this summer. He's a good guy, I'm sure he'll stand behind the repair. I also mentioned the new burnpot design and gave him a copy of the service bulletin. 

While I was there I picked up some Jed's softwoods for the coming cold snap. A little pricey, but YOLO!


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## iceguy4 (Mar 9, 2014)

Update  10 tons burned with igniter set on manual...3 cracks extending up to the next hole up (aprox 3/8 ")    Burn pot flat as a "pancake"  .  These cracks IMHO won't affect it and I say success...   Today I gave a quick clean and set the igniter to auto....


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