# my first stove...



## hofmann (Jun 27, 2014)

Hi all. I just bought this due to love at first sight but there are some issues. Mainly that it leaks like a sieve. There's flaky rust in the panel joints and the sides have a bit of outward bowing at the back

Can I seal it up without tearing it down? It's meant to be for an outdoor undercover area so maybe doesn't need to be perfect...

Also if anyone knows what it is?

I am in Australia

Thanks in advance.


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## hofmann (Jun 27, 2014)

Here are some pictures of the back with the bowing.

There are a couple of reasons I don't want to tear it down. I think it is a reproduction so probably isn't worth that much. I am freezing right now and want it up and running and finally, the screws really don't want to come out.

I would even consider fitting a kitchen exhaust fan to keep the smoke down while it starts, would the leaking stop once chimney starts drawing?

Would a silicone or putty applied from the outside do the job?


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## hofmann (Jun 27, 2014)

Also I have this problem


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## begreen (Jun 27, 2014)

If my brother came to me with this stove I would tell him to scrap it. It's warping badly and that's just its current state of being. This isn't going to get better.

Putting a very hot fire in one's home needs to be taken seriously. You want it to be safe to run and controllable. So far this stove strikes out on both points.

Does the house already have a chimney or are you starting from scratch?


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## hofmann (Jun 27, 2014)

Dang. Even in an outdoor area? I want to do something with it because I love the way it looks


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## begreen (Jun 27, 2014)

Outdoors would be much safer. The stove may be hard to control, but still enjoyable for some outdoor warmth.


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## hofmann (Jun 27, 2014)

It's still undercover and walled on 3 sides so I don't want it to be too Smokey. Any ideas?


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## hofmann (Jun 27, 2014)

I guess I'm mainly wondering if high temp silicone or stove putty would work applied from the outside. And if so for how long?

Alternatively what about the kitchen range hood/extraction fan idea? I would only be happy with that if it was only for starting it up


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## begreen (Jun 27, 2014)

In the current state the issue is the fire wants to blaze at full strength due to the inflow of air from the warpage. Smoke will be an issue only if the flue is very short.

Can you post a picture of the location? Is this area attached to the house? If so there are still high risks. High temp silicone is not appropriate for the red hot temps that are going to happen. This stove is shot. Stove/furnace cement may work temporarily, but the risk is still there. It would be better to clean it up and put it somewhere in a parlor without fire if the look is what is still attractive.


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## BrotherBart (Jun 27, 2014)

All silicone goes "poof" at eight hundred degrees. Useless for stoves or stove pipe. You can lather the seams with furnace cement. Just don't burn in that thing around anything you can't live without if it burns down.


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## hofmann (Jun 27, 2014)

Unfortunately we are out for the rest of the day but will get some pics when I get home. Yes, it is attached to the house. 

Can you explain what the dangers are? Is it smoke related or fire?

If there is anything I should read so I don't ask dumb questions, do tell.


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## begreen (Jun 27, 2014)

Ask away, your safety is most important.

The primary issue will be a stove you have little control over. That is, you put dry fuel in, light it and off it goes at full strength.  Other issues may exist with clearances or the flue system, but so far all we have seen is the stove. Though the deteriorated flue collar hints of additional issues.


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## hofmann (Jun 27, 2014)

Heh guys, I just can't figure out how it is going to burn anything down. Are you saying fire could come out of the gaps. Is it going to collapse or melt?

I don't really care about being able to control it and most the time it will have door open for radiant heat.

Especially considering that rusted flue, I feel like treating it as an open fire and just putting an open fire style hood over it. Then I don't have to worry about the flue being perfectly sealed or the other gaps...?


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## hofmann (Jun 28, 2014)

This sort of thing except with the hood higher and painted black. I could still fit a flue to the heater and run it up inside the hood flue


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## bholler (Jun 28, 2014)

i don't see what that hood would do.  The problem is that it could potentially be uncontrollable which could lead to a severe over fie that can cause many problems.  For example extreme warping or cracking of cast panels which could let fire out.  Severe over heating of the pipe and flue which could ignite nearby materials.  The stove is beat it would be ok to use outside basically as a fire pit and not near any flammable structure.   It isn't worth the risk


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## hofmann (Jun 28, 2014)

Ok, it seems I don't really understand the over fire thing. I assume this is not an issue with an open fire place


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## bholler (Jun 28, 2014)

an open fireplace is a totally different structure with totally different burning characteristics the two are not comparable at all


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## hofmann (Jun 28, 2014)

Ok, I see. That sucks. Looks like I will just use that open fire place hood with a grate in the out door area. It is going against the back wall in the photo, pretty much where the window is. I am redoing the wall in rustic corrugated iron. The couches will move in there too

 I also need to fill in the sand pit, just not sure if I should try something awesome like a rocket stove or hydronic floor heating with the hole. Feel free to throw ideas at me, its about 3 feet deep

I still love my busted old Cinderella  stove and want to try to use it in a more open area. Regardless where it is, is there anything I can/should do to avoid an overfire?


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## begreen (Jun 28, 2014)

Are there children also in this house or do you live alone? I have to be blunt, don't do this. There is not a safe aspect in your plan.


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## hofmann (Jun 28, 2014)

Yes, we have one child. What am I doing wrong?


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## begreen (Jun 28, 2014)

Virtually everything. The stove is completely unsafe and at end of life. A hood is not the solution, a safe class A insulated chimney is required.


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## bholler (Jun 28, 2014)

If it were my house i would not use that  "fireplace hood" there either.  Acctually you could not get me to light a fife in either of them within 10 feet of my house.


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## hofmann (Jun 28, 2014)

Ok, fair enough but that's why I'm here and i haven't actually done anything yet. I live in a warm climate so I don't have much knowledge but I think I'm being pretty careful.

Are you saying if you have kids you shouldn't have an open fire place? Even with a screen?


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## hofmann (Jun 28, 2014)

The hoods no good either?


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## bholler (Jun 28, 2014)

You can absolutely have a properly built fireplace that is properly maintained with proper clearances and if the hearth is as deep as it should be a screen isn't even that necessary.


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## bholler (Jun 28, 2014)

i guess if there was enough clearance around that hood it might be ok but you could never get me to use it in my house.  And by enough clearance i mean a minimum of 3 feet in every direction to anything combustible and a solid cement floor under it.  And even at that i would still not recommend it.


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## hofmann (Jun 28, 2014)

Ok. Maybe this helps. The window will be gone, the wall will be metal. The other photo is 180 degree view. The hood has a double skin if that makes a difference. The floor will be concrete or stone. I can build a hearth. I can maintain clearances in terms of furniture


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## hofmann (Jun 28, 2014)

As you can see it's not actually in my house. On another note, the wall of my house is also steel. What is the actual problem with the hood?


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## begreen (Jun 28, 2014)

hofmann said:


> Ok, fair enough but that's why I'm here and i haven't actually done anything yet. I live in a warm climate so I don't have much knowledge but I think I'm being pretty careful.
> 
> Are you saying if you have kids you shouldn't have an open fire place? Even with a screen?



The more people that can be harmed if something goes wrong, the more I get concerned. A proper fireplace is not at all what we have been discussing so far. Everything discussed is about jerry-rigging used stuff together for a purpose it was never intended for. 

Maybe start from scratch as if you hadn't bought this stove. What is the goal, what is the budget?


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## hofmann (Jun 28, 2014)

The goal is a cosy outdoor living room. We have just moved to the country and liked the idea of real fire. Until now we just ran gas or electric patio heaters. The budget is limited in that the fire will be competing against a $200 patio heater. Nonetheless, I am obviously open to suggestions.


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## bholler (Jun 28, 2014)

Ok the walls may be covered in metal but are they framed with wood?  If they are that metal skin means nothing the wood behind it can catch really easily.  Are there any installation instructions or clearances listed for that hood?


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## begreen (Jun 28, 2014)

The patio heater already wins hands down. It is tested, affordable and ready to go.


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## hofmann (Jun 28, 2014)

Yes, wood framing. There is a 1 inch gap between the inner and outer layer and it's all round the hood. The flue is also double with a third through the roof. It's made in Australia by burning log but I have no instructions at this point


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## bholler (Jun 28, 2014)

If that unit was tested and you have the specs and follow them it might be ok but i still would not use it.  And those metal walls with wood framing are considered flammable walls just the same as if they were sided in wood.


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## hofmann (Jun 28, 2014)

So if I started from scratch, what would you recommend?


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## hofmann (Jun 28, 2014)

Also though, would you mind explaining what the problem is with the hood?


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## begreen (Jun 28, 2014)

From scratch one possibility I would consider is building a masonry fireplace with proper clearances and chimney.


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## hofmann (Jun 29, 2014)

Ok, that's probably not going to happen. Thanks again for your help


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## Charles1981 (Jun 29, 2014)

That thing should not go near any habitable structure. Would not want to use that stove at all given its defects.


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## bholler (Jun 29, 2014)

hofmann said:


> Also though, would you mind explaining what the problem is with the hood?



There may not be a problem but without having the specifications for that unit you need to go with very large clearances like i said 3 feet all around it.  Non of us here know that particular unit i have seen allot of similar units here made in the 70s and the only reason most of the ones i saw had not burnt the house down was because they were almost never used.  The one you have may be better but i cant tell from the pics.


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## begreen (Jun 29, 2014)

hofmann said:


> Ok, that's probably not going to happen. Thanks again for your help



In lieu of that, look for a quality used stove like a Jotul 3 or 8 or F400 and install it with an adequate height, proper chimney. A Jotul Combifire would also work. Be prepared that the chimney may cost more than the stove.


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## begreen (Jun 30, 2014)

That "hood" looks to me like it might be part of a metal fireplace assembly that is missing its base. If so it would look something like this when new. This might be an acceptable alternative if you can get one complete and properly pass it through the roof.


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