# Another cracked PE insert  replaced



## jqgs214 (Sep 27, 2011)

Ok,

Contacted distributor and sent pictures.  Will wait to see the response.  They were very cordial on the phone and said PE usually wants to weld cracks.  Let me know what you guys this of my cracks.  Very similar to the ones everyone else has been experiencing.


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## leeave96 (Sep 27, 2011)

Don't know what you warranty is - but given the hassle some of the folks have had with getting PE to fix/replace their stoves, welding might be the easiest route to get you burning again.  I know that one of the things I like about my steel plate Englander is that I wouldn't hesitate to weld-up a crack - not such an easy option with cast iron or soapstone.

I think BB pointed out that the cracks we are seeing on these PE stoves are with their inserts.  Also how old is the stove, i.e. year made?

Good luck,
Bill


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## madison (Sep 27, 2011)

I am having a little trouble visualizing where the cracks are located

the picture on the top left is on the faceplate upper left corner?

upper right picture, is it with the baffle removed upper rear?

bottom left picture, ??? could not guess where it is actually located within the stove?

And I guess it is impossible to ascertain if the cracks are through the entire stove body?


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## jqgs214 (Sep 27, 2011)

Edit, Stove was installed 7-17-2007, not sure of manufacture date but I think it was end of 2006.

Upper left photo is on the right side of the door frame about an inch below the edge of the top part of the door frame.  The other two photos are inside the door frame edge to the upper front end of the fire box.  The baffle is in place for these photos.  It is where the side rail meets the top rail just inside the door opening on both sides.  Hope that clarifies things.  As far as welding goes, one member had their cracks welded and the cracks returned but I may need to go that route too.  Time will tell.


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## hemlock (Sep 27, 2011)

As was explained to me, the internal cracks are nothing to be too concerned about from a safety standpoint.  They will not let any additional air into the firebox.  Keep an eye on the external crack.  As far as burning goes, I wouldn't let it stop you as of now.  I still run mine with a _very _small hairline crack on the face and with the internal cracks re-welded.  PE said just to monitor it, and if it continues to grow, then it should be looked at.
Start a paper trail, however.


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## Sisu (Sep 27, 2011)

That looks similar to what I experienced.  My PE Pacific is a 2005, so the manufacturing time periods are similar.  When you speak with PE, ask if they can extend your 5 year comprehensive warranty, if you decide to go the repair route.  

My stove was repaired and the cracks returned.  It has been decided that the firebox will be replaced.  I am still waiting for the new firebox (my warranty claim was submitted late June).  I think the dealer is taking their time to set up the reinstallation.  Extreme patience is needed for these claims!


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## jqgs214 (Sep 27, 2011)

I will lean toward replacement and site your issue Sisu if you don't mind.  I have not spoken directly to PE yet.  I am letting the distributor handle it so far and will await the response they get from PE if I am not satisfied at that point I will climb the proverbial ladder.  I dont need a delaer to install I can do it myself if the distributor sends me a new one.


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## BrotherBart (Sep 27, 2011)

Dang it! This is the stove that replaced the cracked Dutchwest insert in 2007.  >:-(


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## raybonz (Sep 27, 2011)

wxman said:
			
		

> Ok,
> 
> Contacted distributor and sent pictures.  Will wait to see the response.  They were very cordial on the phone and said PE usually wants to weld cracks.  Let me know what you guys this of my cracks.  Very similar to the ones everyone else has been experiencing.



Really sorry to hear that! Keep us posted on how PE and your dealer handle this..

Good Luck!

Ray


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## Dix (Sep 28, 2011)

Checked mine, still looks good.


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## iceman (Sep 28, 2011)

Here are some of my cracks
Pe wants to repair .... But I don't think I have any say since they have to pay..
One would think since they know about this problem.. and acknowledge it may come back why not just replace?


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## begreen (Sep 28, 2011)

Looks like a sloppy weld fill above the crack. Does that square cutout go all the way through?


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## hemlock (Sep 28, 2011)

Out of curiosity, how many cracked PE stoves have we seen on this sight?


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## begreen (Sep 28, 2011)

I am guessing about 5, all of roughly the same vintage.


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## jqgs214 (Sep 28, 2011)

Yeah,  One cracked stove to another, I got the jinx!  Good memory!  BAC sales (my distributor) has submitted pics to PE and are awaiting their response.  Will keep you all posted.


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## Sisu (Sep 28, 2011)

hemlock said:
			
		

> Out of curiosity, how many cracked PE stoves have we seen on this sight?


My last count was approximately 11 forum members, including you.  The stoves ranged from Summit and Pacific inserts to a Vista stove.  All seemed to be manufactured around the 2005 - 2006 time periods.


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## raybonz (Sep 28, 2011)

Sisu said:
			
		

> hemlock said:
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My recently installed T-5 was made in 2007 I hope it doesn't get this problem and I hope all those with this trouble get taken care of..

Ray


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## jqgs214 (Sep 28, 2011)

Well I heard back from the Dist. already.  They said PE wants it welded and will only pay $150.00 and to contact the installer.  Well contacting the installer is out of the question for me becasue of how I got this stove through BAC and as a replacement for the Century the installer said he would not cover warranty issues since he was not a dealer for the PE brand.  What do you guys think it will cost to weld the three spots.  I told BAC I was not very comfortable with a weld repair but it may be my only option.  Anyone know any good welders on the east end of Long Island?

Thoughts?


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## raybonz (Sep 28, 2011)

wxman said:
			
		

> Well I heard back from the Dist. already.  They said PE wants it welded and will only pay $150.00 and to contact the installer.  Well contacting the installer is out of the question for me becasue of how I got this stove through BAC and as a replacement for the Century the installer said he would not cover warranty issues since he was not a dealer for the PE brand.  What do you guys think it will cost to weld the three spots.  I told BAC I was not very comfortable with a weld repair but it may be my only option.  Anyone know any good welders on the east end of Long Island?
> 
> Thoughts?



What does BAC mean?

Ray


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## jqgs214 (Sep 28, 2011)

BAC Sales is the distributor responsible for getting me my stove.


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## raybonz (Sep 28, 2011)

wxman said:
			
		

> BAC Sales is the distributor responsible for getting me my stove.



LOL good thought a new acronym popped up.. BTW I know you're a weatherman and I find that stuff fascinating and many weathermen get baffled by the weather here.. Do you forecast on TV or radio?

Ray


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## hemlock (Sep 28, 2011)

wxman said:
			
		

> Well I heard back from the Dist. already.  They said PE wants it welded and will only pay $150.00 and to contact the installer.  Well contacting the installer is out of the question for me becasue of how I got this stove through BAC and as a replacement for the Century the installer said he would not cover warranty issues since he was not a dealer for the PE brand.  What do you guys think it will cost to weld the three spots.  I told BAC I was not very comfortable with a weld repair but it may be my only option.  Anyone know any good welders on the east end of Long Island?
> 
> Thoughts?



That's exactly what they told me, right down to the bogus $150 limit.  Don't settle.  You'll be hard pressed to get a welder for that price (I got luck with a guy down the road who did it in place).  Push them, and they'll do better.  "Lifetime warranty" does not mean $150 cap on repairs.


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## raybonz (Sep 28, 2011)

hemlock said:
			
		

> wxman said:
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+1 whatever it costs is the repair..

Ray


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## BrotherBart (Sep 28, 2011)

This part of the OP has bugged me every since he posted. This is just one distributor and right off the bat he knows that "...PE usually wants to weld cracks."

Just how many cracks have they been wanting to weld?


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## BrowningBAR (Sep 29, 2011)

So far I'm really disappointed in what I'm hearing as to how PE is handling these issues. Not much different than Vermont Castings poor customer service. You shouldn't have to press them to get them to fix and cover the costs of a defect.


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## Hogwildz (Sep 29, 2011)

Hate to say this, but I truly believe there is a design issue. All that beefed up front on the inserts seems to put stress in these crack areas. Same spots in every case it seems, as is mine also.
I had a certified union welder that works on buildings & super structures weld mine, and it still cracked at the face again. So you may get it welded, but keep an eye out for the cracks to return.
I am disappointed in these issues and the way they are being handled. I love my insert, but having known this before I bought it, I would have bought another brand. If this was a cheap China pc of chit I would expect these issues, but these ain't cheap, and are supposed to be made with quality and pride. Remember the Auto makers recent nose dives causing them needing bailed out. That was largely do to letting quality slip, and costs rise. Sooner or later it is going to bite PE in the ass. Now is the time to go over and beyond. The only real way to save face and stand out, is to check each issues with each owner and if legit, replace the damn thing and show flying colors. Otherwise, we might as well have bought a VC. No offense to VC owners.


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## BrotherBart (Sep 29, 2011)

I have always wondered about that "floating firebox" stuff PE talks about. Since the inserts seem to be the ones crapping out perhaps that sucker don't float in the insert configuration. Back in 2006 we had good fun throwing rocks back and forth with PE owners and us lowly box store stove burners but I never expected to be hearing this stuff about those stoves. Hell, if they had shorter legs on a Summit I would have bought one. And probably had no problems. This all seems to be happening with inserts. And not the usual thing of folks only showing up here after they have a problem. Virtually every one of them are stoves belonging to long time members.

And there is one Summit insert out there that cracked last year and belongs to a member that asked me not to talk about it here.


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## BrowningBAR (Sep 29, 2011)

BrotherBart said:
			
		

> I have always wondered about that "floating firebox" stuff PE talks about. Since the inserts seem to be the ones crapping out perhaps that sucker don't float in the insert configuration. Back in 2006 we had good fun throwing rocks back and forth with PE owners and us lowly box store stove burners but I never expected to be hearing this stuff about those stoves. Hell, if they had shorter legs on a Summit I would have bought one. And probably had no problems. This all seems to be happening with inserts. And not the usual thing of folks only showing up here after they have a problem. Virtually every one of them are stoves belonging to long time members.
> 
> And there is one Summit insert out there that cracked last year and belongs to a member that asked me not to talk about it here.




Hearth being what it is, you would think Craig might be able to talk PE into have a rep come on here and talk about the issues. It would be good PR and give both parties a better understanding of what is going on.


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## BrotherBart (Sep 29, 2011)

BrowningBAR said:
			
		

> Hearth being what it is, you would think Craig might be able to talk PE into have a rep come on here and talk about the issues. It would be good PR and give both parties a better understanding of what is going on.



Ain't gonna happen. No manufacturer is gonna talk about liability issues online. My first 30 was a mess but you didn't see Mike talking about it here.

Speaking of that stuff. I used to have a world wide call center working for me. One of the first things you teach is to never volunteer anything. Let them tell you what they want and then deal with it from there. And always look like you are doing something. 

Don't be shy about telling them what you want them to do. Don't be nasty about it, don't tell them you are going to smear their brand, don't say bad things about their mother, just tell them what you feel you need done.


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## iceman (Sep 29, 2011)

Yes the majority seems to be inserts, but it has to be a design flaw.. is there so much air going around the entire insert that the front gets to hot?
Doubt it. Pe says that the reported temps are fine for the insert and it can handle some more... What do we have in common? Some burn hotter and others don't..  but yet cracks... I checked my stove last year for cracks... None .. now all the sudden they are there? .. they weren't there in Feb.. so some time after... When I wasn't running it as hard... 
There must be more stoves as they are aware .. Prolly just not members here.
This is going to be interesting...


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## krex1010 (Sep 29, 2011)

As an owner of a pacific insert I am watching reading this thread with a great deal of angst.  My insert was installled in June of 2010. Not really sure how to determine when my stove was made.  Does it seem like mist of these issues were in stoves made around 2005-2007? How long did it take for these cracks to show up?  To the OP, the first pic, I know you described once where that crack is located but I am having trouble picturing the location.  I'm not sure if the area around the door frame on my stove is a bit different than yours, but is that an external crack?


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## jimbom (Sep 29, 2011)

Hogwildz said:
			
		

> ...Otherwise, we might as well have bought a VC. No offense to VC owners.


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## BrowningBAR (Sep 29, 2011)

JimboM said:
			
		

> Hogwildz said:
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> 
> 
> > ...Otherwise, we might as well have bought a VC. No offense to VC owners.



As an owner of three VC's, He's right. Their customer service and quality control was horrendous for several years. It appears to be better at this point, though.


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## BrotherBart (Sep 29, 2011)

Personally I think any wood stove warranty is only good to be used to light the first fire. Any one of them can hide behind that over-fire disclaimer. "We didn't mess up. You did."


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## Shane (Sep 29, 2011)

BrowningBAR said:
			
		

> JimboM said:
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You used to have to go to a 2 week training course at the factory to be a VC dealer back in the 80's.


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## karl (Sep 29, 2011)

BrotherBart said:
			
		

> Personally I think any wood stove warranty is only good to be used to light the first fire. Any one of them can hide behind that over-fire disclaimer. "We didn't mess up. You did."



Take the $150.00 from and them and then they can't.  They have already admitted culpability.


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## Frostbit (Sep 29, 2011)

$150 for repair is a poor sidestep to PE's stated warranty. The number of PE inserts cracking is growing; I surmise there are likely others out there that the owners have not looked at close enough, or at all. 

Two things bother me. One, PE has GOT to know they have a manufacturing problem! There is just too many of the same units cracking. The way they are handling it, from what I read through the owners posts, is deplorable. 

Second, the power of the Internet, more specifically, this forum: What company worth their salt believes that anyone in this group would likely consider a new PE insert to put into their own home. Really. Knowing what you have read here, would any one of you actually say, "yes, I'm gonna buy a new one"? Take that and compound it by word of mouth. 

Now, if you were a company of PE's supposed status, your workmanship and warranty shortfalls outlined here in detail and of multiple instances, would you not want to make things right and make an honest attempt to win back your rapidly deteriorating credibility?

I am just baffled by it all. Based on what I have read, much like the VC saga, I absolutely would not consider a PE product. Their lack of attention and documented poor way of after sales support have soured me from even desiring one of their stoves not having problems. The company IS the product. If they can't back it up appropriately, then I for one would want not want to spend my hard earned cash with them. Just my opinion...

The guys from Woodstock and Englander must just grin every time they find these threads of woe with PE.  They may not manufacture a product that is any better, but they certainly do have the satisfied customer base that they endeavor to take care of after the stove has left the plant.


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## jqgs214 (Sep 29, 2011)

krex1010 said:
			
		

> As an owner of a pacific insert I am watching reading this thread with a great deal of angst.  My insert was installled in June of 2010. Not really sure how to determine when my stove was made.  Does it seem like mist of these issues were in stoves made around 2005-2007? How long did it take for these cracks to show up?  To the OP, the first pic, I know you described once where that crack is located but I am having trouble picturing the location.  I'm not sure if the area around the door frame on my stove is a bit different than yours, but is that an external crack?



Yes that is an external crack.  The blurry glob in the lower right hand corner is the very top of the door pin.


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## jqgs214 (Sep 29, 2011)

Well got another response from BAC Sales, 

Seems they cannot submit the repair for reimbursment that I will need to go through a dealer, which is fine and they will give me the info to contact the closest one.  I also asked if it was a 150.00 limit per weld?  I have 3 cracks, so I would think to get a guy to my house for $450.00 it might be doable.  They are contacting PE again.  I also asked to be CC'd with their correspondance with PE and let them know I know of 2 stoves that had welded repairs fail. Updates to follow as they come in.


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## Sisu (Sep 29, 2011)

wxman said:
			
		

> Well I heard back from the Dist. already.  They said PE wants it welded and will only pay $150.00 and to contact the installer.  Well contacting the installer is out of the question for me becasue of how I got this stove through BAC and as a replacement for the Century the installer said he would not cover warranty issues since he was not a dealer for the PE brand.  What do you guys think it will cost to weld the three spots.  I told BAC I was not very comfortable with a weld repair but it may be my only option.  Anyone know any good welders on the east end of Long Island?
> 
> Thoughts?



Part of the warranty issue is that you are dealing with three other parties (dealer, distributor, and manufacturer).  Each has their own interests etc.  This $150.00 cap for repair is not something in PE's warranty and could be the distributor's false claim.  Contact PE directly to resolve that.  

As far as different interests, I was told by my dealer that they were never reimbursed when my stove was removed, repaired and reinstalled in 2009.  I don't know if that is entirely true or not, but I am still waiting for them to schedule a time to remove and reinstall a new firebox.  If they weren't paid the first time, I can see why they are dragging their feet now.


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## Sisu (Sep 29, 2011)

Hogwildz said:
			
		

> Hate to say this, but I truly believe there is a design issue. All that beefed up front on the inserts seems to put stress in these crack areas. Same spots in every case it seems, as is mine also.
> I had a certified union welder that works on buildings & super structures weld mine, and it still cracked at the face again. So you may get it welded, but keep an eye out for the cracks to return.
> I am disappointed in these issues and the way they are being handled. I love my insert, but having known this before I bought it, I would have bought another brand. If this was a cheap China pc of chit I would expect these issues, but these ain't cheap, and are supposed to be made with quality and pride. Remember the Auto makers recent nose dives causing them needing bailed out. That was largely do to letting quality slip, and costs rise. Sooner or later it is going to bite PE in the ass. Now is the time to go over and beyond. The only real way to save face and stand out, is to check each issues with each owner and if legit, replace the damn thing and show flying colors. Otherwise, we might as well have bought a VC. No offense to VC owners.



Hog have you had any contact with PE etc. after the cracks reappeared?  Would you pursue another warranty claim?

I put my warranty claim in at the end of June and I am supposed to get a new firebox.  Another peeve I have is the glacial speed these warranty claims take to resolve.


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## mainstation (Sep 29, 2011)

Suddenly I am rethinking my pending Summit insert purchase.  Weld issues and the cost of rebuilding a new Hearth to accomodate the Summit may be just enough to push me back into a Regency I3100.
Geez, good luck to the OP.

BTW, it would be curious to has a tally of poor PE insert issues just for reference.  Can someone please PM me if there is a tally.
TIA


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## krex1010 (Sep 29, 2011)

wxman said:
			
		

> krex1010 said:
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Ok so that crack is on a horizontal weld across the top of the firebox right? It appears vertical because you had the camera turned, am I right on that?  Because if that crack is on the vertical weld going down between the from and side if the firebox that would mean pe changed the design on the firebox, because mine does not look like that.


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## fredarm (Sep 29, 2011)

Anyone had issues with cracks in a PE Vista Insert?  I don't recall hearing about any on here and a search did not return any results.  I think I'm going to have to stick my head in the Vista and have a look (no small feat--it's not a very big opening!).


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## certified106 (Sep 29, 2011)

Dang it I'm sick of hearing about theses cracked PE inserts! I like my stove and wish PE would step up fix the problem and honor their warranty! It figures that all of these threads pop up AFTER I buy mine. How many free standing stoves have been reported? Has PE actually confirmed that they changed their design or manufacturing process that has created this issue? 

Hogz, you should definitely push them to replace your firebox and then examine it to determine if there was a design change and let us know.   

To the OP, I'm sorry to hear about your problem and can only imagine the frustration you must be feeling. It looks like the welds on that stove are pretty questionable are there any other welds that look that sketchy? I would try contacting them and asking them to replace your entire firebox! Stating that they will weld it is like telling someone who owns a 3 year old sports car with rust holes that you are going to throw some bondo on it and make it all better, which is completely not acceptable. I examined mine in the mentioned areas and my welds definitely don't look like that.


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## jqgs214 (Sep 29, 2011)

Have yet to contact PE, so far distributor is very speedy with responses, just not necessarily the ones I want to hear.  PE warranty states repair or replace at their discretion.  After the five year warranty is up it says it will not cover labor but the firebox is warranteed for life?  How doI get it welded without paying labor after the five years.  I asked that the 5 year comprehensive be extended another 5 years if all they are going to authorize is a weld.  Waiting to hear back.  If I do not get a satisfactory answer I will contact PE directly.  Distributor said it cannot share the "confidential emails it has with PE regarding my issue but invited me to contact them directly if I wish.  That seems like my next step.

Any news on good welders on Long Island?  just in case?


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## jqgs214 (Sep 29, 2011)

Oh, and I will take some pictures of the rest of the firebox welds and post them here tonight I hope and get all your "expert" opinions on the rest of the welds.  Oh and the weld inside is Horizontal not vertical.


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## krex1010 (Sep 29, 2011)

wxman said:
			
		

> Oh, and I will take some pictures of the rest of the firebox welds and post them here tonight I hope and get all your "expert" opinions on the rest of the welds.  Oh and the weld inside is Horizontal not vertical.


Maybe I will take my top plate off and take some external pics of my firebox, which is a newer pacific, maybe we can compare pics and see if we can see any changes in the design. I believe mine was made in 2009.


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## Sisu (Sep 29, 2011)

fredarm said:
			
		

> Anyone had issues with cracks in a PE Vista Insert?  I don't recall hearing about any on here and a search did not return any results.  I think I'm going to have to stick my head in the Vista and have a look (no small feat--it's not a very big opening!).



I don't recall any Vista inserts being involved.  I am only aware of a one forum member with a Vista Classic that cracked.  The owner stated that it only burned one cord a year.


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## raybonz (Sep 29, 2011)

certified106 said:
			
		

> Dang it I'm sick of hearing about theses cracked PE inserts! I like my stove and wish PE would step up fix the problem and honor their warranty! It figures that all of these threads pop up AFTER I buy mine. How many free standing stoves have been reported? Has PE actually confirmed that they changed their design or manufacturing process that has created this issue?
> 
> Hogz, you should definitely push them to replace your firebox and then examine it to determine if there was a design change and let us know.
> 
> To the OP, I'm sorry to hear about your problem and can only imagine the frustration you must be feeling. It looks like the welds on that stove are pretty questionable are there any other welds that look that sketchy? I would try contacting them and asking them to replace your entire firebox! Stating that they will weld it is like telling someone who owns a 3 year old sports car with rust holes that you are going to throw some bondo on it and make it all better, which is completely not acceptable. I examined mine in the mentioned areas and my welds definitely don't look like that.



+1 Jesse, quite frankly I am nervous that I could incur some issue and be left holding the bag.. This is not building my confidence one bit! The worst part is how slow these problems are dealt with.. 

Ray


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## begreen (Sep 29, 2011)

To date there have been no issues reported for the Alderlea series other than a door misalignment if I recall correctly. They are built a bit beefier in some areas and tend to heat up differently than the regular PE stoves from my observation.


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## raybonz (Sep 29, 2011)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> To date there have been no issues reported for the Alderlea series other than a door misalignment if I recall correctly. They are built a bit beefier in some areas and tend to heat up differently than the regular PE stoves from my observation.



BG you always seem to brighten my day!

 

Thanks for the lift!

Ray


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## jqgs214 (Sep 29, 2011)

Ok, more pictures as promised.  I don't see any other issues but I did not remove the baffle ( i know its warped) or rails and inspect them all.  Have others with this issue done that?  any other suspect welds?


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## krex1010 (Sep 30, 2011)

wxman, thanks for posting the pics.  as u can see in my pics, pe has made some changes in the pacific insert.  the ash lip is different, but also there is a seam running vertically down from top to bottom along the edge of the door. that seam is welded on your stove, but on mine its not welded, so they definitely have changed the way they put the fireboxes together.


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## jqgs214 (Sep 30, 2011)

I don't think that seam on mine is welded, I think the pictures are decieving.  Will check it tonight.


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## jqgs214 (Sep 30, 2011)

Emailed Cory at PE this morning.  Did not get into specifics except the $150.00 limit that was being imposed.  He said $150.00 is based on average repair for this type of failure. He instructed me to get an estimate to reweld and then we can discuss any reimbursment limitations.  I  will also get the welders opinion as to whether or not a weld is the correct repair.  Third time a charm??  Any good mobile welders on Long Island??


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## hemlock (Sep 30, 2011)

wxman said:
			
		

> Emailed Cory at PE this morning.  Did not get into specifics except the $150.00 limit that was being imposed.  He said $150.00 is based on average repair for this type of failure. He instructed me to get an estimate to reweld and then we can discuss any reimbursment limitations.  I  will also get the welders opinion as to whether or not a weld is the correct repair.  Third time a charm??  Any good mobile welders on Long Island??



You may have a hard time getting a welder to do it in place.  When I called a few places for my stove, they wouldn't go near it with a ten foot pole once they found out it was in a residence.  They said their insurance co. would take a fit if they found out, or something happened.  I was lucky to have welder who lived a few miles down the road who was willing to do it in place.

Something gnawing at me is that I was told that they've never had problems before, etc....  but then we find they have an "average price for this type of repair" or they "usually like to get these welded" - what gives?


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## VCBurner (Sep 30, 2011)

I guess no matter what stove you buy, there's bound to be someone who has had a problem while using it.  
I've thought for a while now that every stove should have thermometers in or near their secondary burn chaimbers, especially with a cat stove.  But with all stoves the flue temp thermometer and firebox temp thermometer are so essential.  I used my DW in two different settings, the first one was (top) vented through the wall which allowed me to measure flue temps, the other was (rear) vented into a fireplace.  The second setting would not really allow for "conventional" flue thermometer reading.  I felt as if I lost a great beacon by giving up flue temperature themometer.  Often times the flue temps would rise and be detected so much faster than the firebox temp thermometer could ever read it.  I don't know of any inserts that give you the "luxury" of being able to read the flue temperatures.  Stove manufacturers want people to think their stoves are easy to operate.  But the truth is, they are not.  Inserts are no different, I bet if you had a flue thermometer that recorded the peak temperatures, you'd find at times they are probably well beyond the recommended high.  Which is not to say you should be held responsible, afterall how are you supposed to know what the flue temp is?  The makers should provide a way for the user to measure temps inside the firebox, flue and near the secondary burn chaimber.  But it would probably cost too much for them! :-/ 

Good luck wxman, I hope they cough up enough $ to make proper repairs!

Chris


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## jqgs214 (Oct 7, 2011)

Well I found a good mobile weld I can trust that will do the work in house.  Shot him some pictures and am waiting for an estimate.  Just wanted to give you all an update.


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## raybonz (Oct 7, 2011)

wxman said:
			
		

> Well I found a good mobile weld I can trust that will do the work in house.  Shot him some pictures and am waiting for an estimate.  Just wanted to give you all an update.



Sounds great wxman!Look forward to hearing how the repairs go..
Right now I am in Lebanon NH with Dennis and his wife.. Very nice people andf got to see the progress hybrid burn in person!

Ray


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## BrowningBAR (Oct 7, 2011)

raybonz said:
			
		

> wxman said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




WTF?! And you didn't post any pics of this? If I had any power around here I'd ban you for letting the group down!


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## raybonz (Oct 7, 2011)

BrowningBAR said:
			
		

> raybonz said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



LMAO! The camera is in the car right now and I just checked into the hotel.. I will go get that right now.. Sorry 

Ray


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## Hogwildz (Oct 8, 2011)

No, I have not contacted PE regarding the cracks that came back. I see a couple small ones inside, nothing that worries me terribly. The face ones have stopped growing it seems. Going to burn this season and check during, and then again next year. I will not go for a repair again. I want the thing replaced as I gave it a shot repairing, and will not keep repairing something that is obviously an issue, at least for the inserts manufactured during this time period.


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## jqgs214 (Nov 6, 2011)

Well I talked to the welder today (finally) and expect an estimate to repair some time tomorrow.  His take is that the welds are not the solution and the cracks will recurr.  Will forward the formal write-up to BAC Sales and PE once I get it.  Also, it is going to come in way higher that $150.00.  Eastern Long Island is an EXPENSIVE place to live and the mobile welder set-up gets $120.00/hr plus travel.  Thinks about 2 hours on site.  Biggest problem will be keeping weld surface clean enough he said.  Do any of these cracks have the possiblily of leaking CO out of the stove with the fan running and distributing it in the house?


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## iceman (Nov 6, 2011)

wxman said:
			
		

> Well I talked to the welder today (finally) and expect an estimate to repair some time tomorrow.  His take is that the welds are not the solution and the cracks will recurr.  Will forward the formal write-up to BAC Sales and PE once I get it.  Also, it is going to come in way higher that $150.00.  Eastern Long Island is an EXPENSIVE place to live and the mobile welder set-up gets $120.00/hr plus travel.  Thinks about 2 hours on site.  Biggest problem will be keeping weld surface clean enough he said.  Do any of these cracks have the possiblily of leaking CO out of the stove with the fan running and distributing it in the house?








My guy was here not even an hr.....looked the stove over, cleaned it, drilled it, cleaned it welded cracks on the outside, the door frame, welded some on the inside... And was gone.. ok maybe an hr, but did say it should be fine and it looked like external cracks nothing major
On a side note.... She did me fine burning week without power ...


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## North of 60 (Nov 6, 2011)

I don't think these cracks will be leak's. Just suckers allowing more air in for difficultly of controlling the fire.  I imagine the cracks are closing up on the outside as the stove warms up?
Sorry to here all the crap you guys are going through.


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## jqgs214 (Feb 25, 2012)

UPDATE.

I know its been awhile, but so far  Ihave gotten PE up to $300 commitment to repair stove.  And found another crack inside.  Dealer says stove needs to come out.  To be continued...


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## maverick06 (Feb 26, 2012)

I am an engineer and deal with welding cracks a lot... (different types of cracks, but regardless). 

Welding over a crack is a bandaid. This is likely good enough, because there is no way the crack will be ground out and weld built back up. 

Welding is very challenging to do right. You have issues ranging from metal compatibility (base/weld rod), warping the steel, corrosion (different types of metal), not overlapping the weld enough. 

The stove will certainly have to be removed, not safe to do it in place. 

The big concern I see is that when welding there will either not be enough penetration into the metal, not stopping crack propagation or too much heat being put in when it is welded causing some warping. Neither of these would likely be noticeable. You wont find out until you start to thermally cycle the stove, then they may propagate from the metal heating and cooling enough. Chances are the actual weld wont crack, but the surrounding metal may. If the material is warped from this, the stress may be elsewhere, so keep a good eye out for new cracks too. 

Welding it is certainly a viable solution, but you have to be careful since you dont know how well it was welded. Thats why a weld here will cost you $150...  (we do it right at work, and thats why its expensive and time consuming... but those are different things...  we arent welding up fireplaces)


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## jqgs214 (May 20, 2012)

Well Good news FINALLY,  After much back and forth with the distributor and PE, it has been decided that I am going to get a new stove.  I won't bore you with all the other details other than I'll upload some pics of the first breakin fire when I get the new stove and have it installed.


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## begreen (May 20, 2012)

Excellent. Kudos to your dealer for backing you up.


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## kingquad (May 20, 2012)

Very good news.  It's always good to see a company back up their product.  It just seems like slow communication between the company/distributors/dealers/owners makes for a really slow process.  The Summit is on my short list for my next house, and PE's ongoing issues with cracks and quality control have definitely not made the choice as easy as it might have been.


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## Hogwildz (May 20, 2012)

I want a new insert ;-)


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## BrotherBart (May 20, 2012)

September to May just to say it will be replaced. That is a crock. A very large crock full of it. My freakin 30 had a problem and they replaced the thing in two weeks. Which should be standard for something with a fire in it in your house. I don't care who made it.

Excuse me for not wanting something with a "lifetime" warranty if it takes half a lifetime to get it done.


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## weatherguy (May 21, 2012)

I was going to get that insert until these problems popped up, I love the stove I didnt feel like going through the hassle if some cracks showed up..


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## jqgs214 (Jul 14, 2012)

Stove is in!  Looks beautiful, took a long time but in the end they did what is right.  Alot of the time was dealer issues since I did not have one and the distibutor needed to find one to do the install.  As far as construction goes (disclaimer: I am not a welder) it looks just like the old on as far as the welds go in the firebox.  Maybe the penetration is better but who am I to know.  The ash lip and upper trim are more decorative and there are two blowers instead of one.  Just something in the back of my head says its going to crack but it probably won't!  Here is the kicker.  They did not want old stove back but since I have a bad back an no way to move it it went out for scrap!  I did keep the old firebricks for spares since they were in good shape.  Had to use the old door and surround but that was no big deal.  All in all I'm very happy and cant wait for it to get cold again!  ( I will regret saying that I know  )


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## jqgs214 (Jul 14, 2012)

Can thread title be updated to reflect the positive news??


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## clemsonfor (Jul 14, 2012)

jqgs214 said:


> Stove is in! Looks beautiful, took a long time but in the end they did what is right. Alot of the time was dealer issues since I did not have one and the distibutor needed to find one to do the install. As far as construction goes (disclaimer: I am not a welder) it looks just like the old on as far as the welds go in the firebox. Maybe the penetration is better but who am I to know. The ash lip and upper trim are more decorative and there are two blowers instead of one. Just something in the back of my head says its going to crack but it probably won't! Here is the kicker. They did not want old stove back but since I have a bad back an no way to move it it went out for scrap! I did keep the old firebricks for spares since they were in good shape. Had to use the old door and surround but that was no big deal. All in all I'm very happy and cant wait for it to get cold again! ( I will regret saying that I know  )


Seems like they would want it to destroy it so that someone could not get it, either you selling it or if you hauled it for scrap the scrap yard guy getting it and seliing it then a house fire and PE getting sued for it?  I m also supprised they did not haul it off for scrap?


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## begreen (Jul 14, 2012)

Good to hear that you are back in action. Thread title updated. Send a link to PE if you haven't already.


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## Sisu (Jul 17, 2012)

I am glad to hear that the issue has been resolved!  Did they just replace the firebox or the whole stove (door included)?


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## jqgs214 (Jul 21, 2012)

no door, no surround


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## Sisu (Jul 23, 2012)

jqgs214 said:


> no door, no surround




That is the same as my replacement.  The only thing different is that the distributor took my old firebox.  I hope PE used it to study what went wrong and didn't just scrap it.


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## Sprinter (Jul 23, 2012)

BrotherBart said:


> September to May just to say it will be replaced. That is a crock. A very large crock full of it. My freakin 30 had a problem and they replaced the thing in two weeks. Which should be standard for something with a fire in it in your house. I don't care who made it.
> 
> Excuse me for not wanting something with a "lifetime" warranty if it takes half a lifetime to get it done.


September to July for resolution.  Sigh.

I just gotta show this to a dealer I talked to the other day. He made a point of mentioning the cheaper Englander's to illustrate how important local customer service is and the importance of quality in a wood stove as a safety issue. He's not a PE dealer, but the point he was making was generic.

IMO, any manufacturer can have occasional issues, but how they handle them is paramount. This can't be PE's finest hour.

The PE Super 27 step top is high on my short list, but this episode does not leave me with a warm, fuzzy feeling about the company.  I will still be talking to a PE dealer, but I _will _ask about this issue just to see what they say about it.

So I have to ask, was this an aberration or does PE warranty service actually suck this bad?  Any other PE horror stories?   I know PE has a following here.  BTW, I guess there was an early problem with no original dealer on this, but PE needed to step up and do what's right regardless of that.  No excuse there.


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## begreen (Jul 23, 2012)

So far it looks like there was a batch of Summit inserts around 2007 that had bad welds. This has not shown up in other lines. The mid-sized PEs have a great track record. I would not hesitate if this is your stove of choice. If you're concerned about dealer support, get it from Tom's shop in Bellingham. They shoot for customer satisfaction as their first priority.


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## konakid (Jul 25, 2012)

I got one from Tom a couple of years ago. And he may be the best person I have ever dealt with when it comes to customer satisfaction. It is a long story, but suffice it to say that Tom is the finest, and my PE Summit is a winner.


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## Sprinter (Jul 25, 2012)

konakid said:


> I got one from Tom a couple of years ago. And he may be the best person I have ever dealt with when it comes to customer satisfaction. It is a long story, but suffice it to say that Tom is the finest, and my PE Summit is a winner.


Good to know. Thanks.


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## neumsky (Jul 25, 2012)

You don't want to know how PE handled my situation....went and bought a Jotul. I think PE is a good stove...but PE likes to drag their feet getting anything done. As I would expect from probably any of them...But they really took their time getting things done for me. Hopefully they fix their lethargic thinking.


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## Sprinter (Jul 25, 2012)

neumsky said:


> You don't want to know how PE handled my situation....went and bought a Jotul. I think PE is a good stove...but PE likes to drag their feet getting anything done. As I would expect from probably any of them...But they really took their time getting things done for me. Hopefully they fix their lethargic thinking.


Bad to know, thanks.


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## neumsky (Jul 25, 2012)

Sprinter said:


> Bad to know, thanks.


Sprinter...Looks like all you need is a Stove now!


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## Sprinter (Jul 25, 2012)

neumsky said:


> Sprinter...Looks like all you need is a Stove now!


Workin' on it.  This is very unfamiliar territory to me and I figure I have all summer to bug the hell out of you guys.


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## begreen (Jul 25, 2012)

No problem, but remember prices jump up sharply after Labor Day. And of course this season's wood should have been stacked and drying a long time ago.


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## Sprinter (Jul 26, 2012)

begreen said:


> No problem, but remember prices jump up sharply after Labor Day. And of course this season's wood should have been stacked and drying a long time ago.


Yeah, the first thing I did when we moved here and my wife said "Can we get a wood stove?", which really meant "We're going to get a wood stove!", was to buy about 6 cords of wood for the next two or three years. Some of it was semi-seasoned, some very green, some fir, most alder, and I was counting on the older stuff to season out well enough for this winter, but with all the dreary weather, I'm a bit worried. Maybe we'll still see a summer yet, though. Gotta be optimistic. Last two days have been a good start...  Being a gadget guy, I got a moisture meter, the 2-pin kind, and I'm monitoring a few sample quarter splits every few days to see if there's any hope.


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## Hogwildz (Jul 26, 2012)

Sprinter said:


> Yeah, the first thing I did when we moved here and my wife said "Can we get a wood stove?", which really meant "We're going to get a wood stove!", was to buy about 6 cords of wood for the next two or three years. Some of it was semi-seasoned, some very green, some fir, most alder, and I was counting on the older stuff to season out well enough for this winter, but with all the dreary weather, I'm a bit worried. Maybe we'll still see a summer yet, though. Gotta be optimistic. Last two days have been a good start... Being a gadget guy, I got a moisture meter, the 2-pin kind, and I'm monitoring a few sample quarter splits every few days to see if there's any hope.


6 cords for 2 or 3 seasons? I assume your only burning occasionally, otherwise, your going to run short somewhere between year 2 and 3. Especially first few years of burning and learning the stove and burning habits.


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## Sprinter (Jul 26, 2012)

Hogwildz said:


> 6 cords for 2 or 3 seasons? I assume your only burning occasionally, otherwise, your going to run short somewhere between year 2 and 3. Especially first few years of burning and learning the stove and burning habits.


Point taken. I actually don't now how much we'll burn but it will be largely for ambiance and supplemental heat. It's also a pretty mild climate.  We only pay 5.2 cents/kwh for electric here, so a $3,000 stove installed and $175 wood isn't exactly cost effective anyhow. Oh, and It's more like 7 cords now, but mostly alder which isn't that great for BTU's. I've really got to get some better species here for later years. The alder was pretty cheap, though.


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## begreen (Jul 26, 2012)

If the wood is split, covered on top and stacked so that the prevailing wind can blow through it, you should be ok with the wood that was not totally green. Fir and alder dry reasonably quick after splitting. Save the totally green wood for another year. And be sure the alder is off the ground. It goes punky quickly if left on the damp earth.

5.2 cents per kw is great. We pay twice that. What electric company is that with?


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## Sprinter (Jul 26, 2012)

begreen said:


> If the wood is split, covered on top and stacked so that the prevailing wind can blow through it, you should be ok with the wood that was not totally green. Fir and alder dry reasonably quick after splitting. Save the totally green wood for another year. And be sure the alder is off the ground. It goes punky quickly if left on the damp earth.
> 
> 5.2 cents per kw is great. We pay twice that. What electric company is that with?


It's Lewis County PUD. It's almost all from BPA (For the others here, it's Bonneville Power Administration which supplies much of the NW with hydro-electric power from the huge Columbia River dams). This is an interesting paragraph from PUD's website:


> Lewis County PUD currently gets nearly 100% of its power from the BPA at relatively low cost (even with the BPA increase); approximately 3 cents/kwh. However, in 2006, the voters of the state of Washington approved Initiative 937 which requires public utilities, including Lewis PUD, to supply 3%, 9%, and 15% of their power from renewable resources by 2012, 2016, and 2020, respectively. Even though over 85% of Lewis PUDs supply is from clean, non-carbon emitting, hydroelectric resources, *hydroelectric power does not count as renewable for purposes of Initiative 937*. The result, Lewis PUD and other public utilities in the State of Washington have had to purchase high cost wind power (in the 6 to 10 cent/kwh range) that they do not need and is no cleaner than the hydroelectricity the PUD already delivers to customers.


Apparently, some of the customers complain about rates, so they go on to explain their costs and increases. I think this is the lowest I've ever seen, even from other PUD's we've been on.  This is a comparison chart for Western Wa: http://www.lcpud.org/images/Rate Comparisions/Utility Rate Comparison 8-18-11.pdf  We were previously on Seattle's PSE (private company) at almost 10c.


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## clemsonfor (Jul 26, 2012)

We pay $0.13 cents an hour in the summer and $0.12 cents an hour in the winter!!


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## Sprinter (Jul 26, 2012)

clemsonfor said:


> We pay $0.13 cents an hour in the summer and $0.12 cents an hour in the winter!!


Apparently, that's about average in the US. Just to put things in perspective, take a look at this chart: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_pricing
The highest is Denmark at about 40 cents (US money) Maybe that will make you feel better


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## jqgs214 (Jul 28, 2012)

Talk about stealing a thread j/k but back on topic.  This problem is not just with Summits.  I know of at least two mid  size PE's that have been affected and mine was one of them (an insert) and mine was manufactured in 2007


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## Sprinter (Jul 28, 2012)

jqgs214 said:


> Talk about stealing a thread j/k but back on topic. This problem is not just with Summits. I know of at least two mid size PE's that have been affected and mine was one of them (an insert) and mine was manufactured in 2007


Are these kinds of cracks obvious to a typical user? I'm wondering how many such defects might go undiscovered or ignored by most owners.  Thermal stresses must be a huge problem in stove design.


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## jqgs214 (Jul 28, 2012)

Yes and no.  Some cracks we internal but obvious is you knew where to look (I did thanks to this forum) and the othrs occur on the face of the stove and should be noticed by the average user that cleans his stove once a year.  You can look up in this thread for pictures.


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## Sisu (Jul 30, 2012)

jqgs214 said:


> Yes and no.  Some cracks we internal but obvious is you knew where to look (I did thanks to this forum) and the othrs occur on the face of the stove and should be noticed by the average user that cleans his stove once a year.  You can look up in this thread for pictures.




As you said, some are obvious, others not so much.  Most stove owners are probably not as diligent with their inspections and/or cleaning.  I didn't even see the one crack on the firebox door rim of my stove, until I saw it in a picture I took of the firebox.  The camera flash brought out the detail of the hairline crack.  So good lighting is important when inspecting your stove.


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## firebroad (Jul 30, 2012)

jqgs214 said:


> Well I heard back from the Dist. already. They said PE wants it welded and will only pay $150.00 and to contact the installer. Well contacting the installer is out of the question for me becasue of how I got this stove through BAC and as a replacement for the Century the installer said he would not cover warranty issues since he was not a dealer for the PE brand. What do you guys think it will cost to weld the three spots. I told BAC I was not very comfortable with a weld repair but it may be my only option. Anyone know any good welders on the east end of Long Island?
> 
> Thoughts?


What the heck kind of warranty is that??  Two words--Attorney General.


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## iceman (Oct 11, 2012)

hate to bring back a old thread.
decided to take the chill off tonight and after some examining ... cracks are back!


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## clemsonfor (Oct 11, 2012)

WOW there back, i think i would ask for my money back and get a different brand!!


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## iceman (Oct 11, 2012)

i am sad/depressed. dont even know what to do. guess i will be calling pe tomorrow.


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## rideau (Oct 11, 2012)

iceman said:


> i am sad/depressed. dont even know what to do. guess i will be calling pe tomorrow.


 
What a bummer.  The best of luck to you for a speedy resolution.  If you don't get one, why not go to your state about it?


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## Hogwildz (Oct 11, 2012)

Time for a replacement. Beginning to think maybe I should push for one also. I don't think this one has ever been right , including the control of the damn thing.
Time to clean her soon and inspect.


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## BrowningBAR (Oct 11, 2012)

Hog getting a second 30 or will it be completely different?


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## Shadow&Flame (Oct 11, 2012)

These threads make me nervous....will have to keep a close eye on my insert.


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## BrotherBart (Oct 11, 2012)

Hogwildz said:


> Time for a replacement. Beginning to think maybe I should push for one also. I don't think this one has ever been right , including the control of the damn thing.
> Time to clean her soon and inspect.


 
Take the flower pots off of the top of that 30 an get some real heat in that joint.


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## BrotherBart (Oct 11, 2012)

Shadow&Flame said:


> These threads make me nervous....will have to keep a close eye on my insert.


 
Yeah I have been wondering about the Alderleas too. I always liked the old stoves with "knife edge" contact with the door gasket but now it looks like the flat fronted ones aren't cracking but the ones with the welded knife edge parts are.

It has to have something to do with not having a radius in the corners of the firebox opening. That is a sure place that something is gonna crack.


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## begreen (Oct 12, 2012)

Our Alderlea is now going on season 4. I haven't babied it. There have been forays up to 750F+. But it still looks very good, inside and out. Maybe that big heat sink body helps.


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## firebroad (Oct 12, 2012)

No Problems with my insert so far, but in hindsight, I have a feeling that PE is VERY aware of it.  While I was awaiting shipment, I kept wondering what took so long, so I gave them a call, and they said to please be patient that they were testing them before they sent them out, I assumed it had to do with the enamel finish, not the stove itself.  I will keep my eyes peeled and my fingers crossed.


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## Hogwildz (Oct 12, 2012)

BrowningBAR said:


> Hog getting a second 30 or will it be completely different?


I would want PE to either replace this Summit with a new improved one, or give me cash refund.
I have a replacement in mind, if it went that way but ain't thinking out loud. I am mixed on my feelings of how PE handled much of this issue. Which has been a varied response, and that alone alienates various owners.
I am not in a position to do anything right now, or anytime in the near future.


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## Sprinter (Oct 15, 2012)

firebroad said:


> No Problems with my insert so far, but in hindsight,* I have a feeling that PE is VERY aware of it*. While I was awaiting shipment, I kept wondering what took so long, so I gave them a call, and they said to please be patient that they were testing them before they sent them out, I assumed it had to do with the enamel finish, not the stove itself. I will keep my eyes peeled and my fingers crossed.


That sounds right. It sounds like a batch of problem inserts went out a few years ago and they are dragging their feet to honor those warranties (very poor business IMO). But I wouldn't be overly concerned about anything purchased recently. I just had my Super 27 installed a couple weeks ago and I'm not worried about it.  Whatever those problems stemmed from, I'm sure they've addressed since. However, I'm sure that's small consolation to those affected. Please keep us informed. I hope that PE steps up and takes care of these problems in an honorable way. My stove looks like it was well constructed, but I would like to know if their warranty actually means something...

Has anyone had a _good _warranty experience with PE?  That would be good to hear about.


----------



## iceman (Oct 23, 2012)

well, here is my update.
sent pics and stove info to dist since original shop is closed. the guy did vaguely remember me. that was over a week ago..... so havent heard anything .... getting frustrated


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## iceman (Oct 23, 2012)

its really frustrating, this is the second time, they know about it, so if the serial number falls within that batch why not just replace it?


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## David Tackett (Oct 23, 2012)

Well, I will be sure to stay away from this brand.  Thanks for the heads up.


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## Shadow&Flame (Oct 23, 2012)

iceman said:


> its really frustrating, this is the second time, they know about it, so if the serial number falls within that batch why not just replace it?


 
Not very reassuring thats for sure....hope it all works out and they do the right thing. Keep us up to date on it...


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## rdust (Oct 23, 2012)

iceman said:


> i am sad/depressed. dont even know what to do. guess i will be calling pe tomorrow.





Hogwildz said:


> Time for a replacement. Beginning to think maybe I should push for one also. I don't think this one has ever been right , including the control of the damn thing.
> Time to clean her soon and inspect.


 
Sounds like a princess insert will do the trick for you guys.    I know iceman has showed some interest in the past and hogwhildz has been totally against them so I figured I'd do a little poking.  

The summit freestanding is a stove I'd love to test drive in the future.  I wish all manufactures had a 6 month trial like woodstock.


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## hemlock (Oct 23, 2012)

iceman said:


> hate to bring back a old thread.
> decided to take the chill off tonight and after some examining ... cracks are back!


 
As are mine.  Noticed one on the face of the stove not to long ago.  Think I'm just going to hit it with the old buzz box next spring.  Too much hassle otherwise.


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## thechimneysweep (Oct 23, 2012)

hemlock said:


> As are mine. Noticed one on the face of the stove not to long ago. Think I'm just going to hit it with the old buzz box next spring. Too much hassle otherwise.


 Please read my post at https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/cracked-stoves-cracked-blocks-and-cracked-operators.92755/


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## Hogwildz (Oct 25, 2012)

I read you post, and have posted my own response.


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## iceman (Oct 26, 2012)

well, pe says my box looks fine on the inside. wouldnt that mean it hasnt been overfired?
they want me to weld it again but this time leave a bump in the weld.. 
basically do not grind it even with the stove. 
i just dont get it. i am supposed to get it welded every year?
someone who sells pe basically says its my/our  fault without even seeing my stove?
swears the company is doing the right thing? now i have to have a bump on my stove?
for less than .01% why wouldnt you replace the stove?


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## Lumberjack (Oct 27, 2012)

iceman said:


> well, pe says my box looks fine on the inside. wouldnt that mean it hasnt been overfired?
> they want me to weld it again but this time leave a bump in the weld..
> basically do not grind it even with the stove.
> i just dont get it. i am supposed to get it welded every year?
> ...


Ha, didn't  know you had your stove crack again!

That doesn't make me feel warm and fuzzy about welding mine!

I requested specific instructions on how to repair it, for example drill out the crack to stop the spread.  No answer yet.


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## rdust (Oct 27, 2012)

iceman said:


> someone who sells pe basically says its my/our fault without even seeing my stove?
> swears the company is doing the right thing? now i have to have a bump on my stove?
> for less than .01% why wouldnt you replace the stove?


 
If I was the people having trouble issues right now and was called out like you guys were I'd be nothing short of insulted. You don't spend the money to R&D a new stove design if the original isn't flawed, period. I think *most* of the people here take much better care of their stoves than the majority of the wood burning population.  It's also been shown that most of the dealers can't tell a user where to take a temp and what an over fire temp is so how can they claim abuse.


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## begreen (Oct 28, 2012)

True that, ask 5 dealers and you will likely get 5 different answers. I do appreciate that some stove companies like Jotul give clear directions where to locate the thermostat and what temp to run the stove.


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## BrowningBAR (Oct 28, 2012)

begreen said:


> *True that, ask 5 dealers and you will likely get 5 different answers.* I do appreciate that some stove companies like Jotul give clear directions where to locate the thermostat and what temp to run the stove.


I can say that is a fact in this specific case based on my phone calls.


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## iceman (Oct 28, 2012)

Lumberjack said:


> Ha, didn't know you had your stove crack again!
> 
> That doesn't make me feel warm and fuzzy about welding mine!
> 
> I requested specific instructions on how to repair it, for example drill out the crack to stop the spread. No answer yet.


 




mine was drilled out the first time. This time I am told not to grind it even to the stove.... to leave a bump.  I dont recall buying the stove with bumps on either side of the door????
pe shoul change everything written about the stove.. If I cant burn it hot enough to heat 2500 sq ft
then why say it heats large areas?  rate it for >1800. I called pe often and was told to "pack it to the gills" "load it to the baffle, thats why it floats" Now I have someone telling me its overfired, A company that says the inside looks good, and someone else who says my wood is to dry!  Lmao! 3 different things from 3 different "Professionals"   Oh, lets not forget the 4th, a professional welder with a long resume who says its a flaw and will come back year after year!


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## Sprinter (Oct 28, 2012)

I can't help but wonder how many other stoves among the various manufacturers have cracks that are unseen and unreported unless they are in obvious locations. I doubt if most users inspect their stoves very carefully, especially inside, and most cracks don't cause obvious problems.

However_, _when I was looking at stoves for us, I inspected all the floor models I saw very carefully. One of the stoves I looked at was an older PE Super 27 of unknown vintage that was used for a long time as a floor demo. I remember not being impressed with the somewhat sloppy weld quality, and it had a thick bracket that wasn't even bent properly (not related to age). However, I also saw a newer Alderlea T5 (basically the same box as Super 27) and it looked fine, so I bought a Super 27 anyway. The stove I got has very nice looking welds and all the other construction points look very good as well. The point is that, PE _may_ have gone through a period of less than stellar QC even though the basic stove design was good on paper, and that _may_ account for some belated warranty issues. And _if_ a particular stove _did_ have QC issues, it _may_ have developed cracks even in the absence of overfiring.  Point being that it may be a bit unfair to arbitrarily accuse every warranty claimant of abuse unless it can be proven that the manufacturing was not part of the problem.

Of course, making a habit of overfiring surely is asking for it (whatever that term means.  Like some others, I'd like to have it a little more well defined, especially if a future warranty claim may be at issue).


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