# Installing cellulose without the machine



## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Dec 20, 2017)

I just have a few small areas that I need to add cellulose to in the attic. Maybe 2-5 bales.

The machine that the box store lends you to blow it in is overkill, plus I don't have a truck to haul it.

So, I need to figure out how to fluff the stuff up and get it installed.

My thought is to loosen it with a garden cultivator, then run the loosened bits though my leaf vac (gas blower run in reverse) into a heavy duty trash bag. Then I can just haul the bags into the attic and dump where I need it.

Is there a better way?


----------



## 3fordasho (Dec 20, 2017)

If it's just a few bags needed, perhaps this product would suffice?:
https://www.menards.com/main/buildi...091-c-5777.htm?tid=-759570144529032024&ipos=5

I just blew in some cellulose a month ago, the guy instructed me to be sure to use the full 100' of hose and not just one of the 50' lengths as this would not "fluff" up the cellulose enough... FWIW.


----------



## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Dec 20, 2017)

3fordasho said:


> If it's just a few bags needed, perhaps this product would suffice?:
> https://www.menards.com/main/buildi...091-c-5777.htm?tid=-759570144529032024&ipos=5
> 
> I just blew in some cellulose a month ago, the guy instructed me to be sure to use the full 100' of hose and not just one of the 50' lengths as this would not "fluff" up the cellulose enough... FWIW.


Thanks for the idea. Already have loose fill fiberglass, and consider the cellulose a necessary upgrade.

Interesting that it takes 100' of hose to get the fluff up enough.  Does seem like it's just settle back down, in time.  I've read about dense pack, wonder how that works?


----------



## Woody5506 (Dec 20, 2017)

I have 3 attic spaces I need to do as well (split level house) and have been debating on cellulose vs fiberglass...


----------



## 3fordasho (Dec 20, 2017)

ED 3000 said:


> Thanks for the idea. Already have loose fill fiberglass, and consider the cellulose a necessary upgrade.
> 
> Interesting that it takes 100' of hose to get the fluff up enough.  Does seem like it's just settle back down, in time.  I've read about dense pack, wonder how that works?



I thought the fiberglass was an upgrade over the cellulose... probably incorrect assumption on my part.  I tried the blow in fiberglass in a different house, didn't work well with the blower machine, had to constantly stuff it down into the auger to get it to feed.


----------



## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Dec 20, 2017)

3fordasho said:


> I thought the fiberglass was an upgrade over the cellulose... probably incorrect assumption on my part.  I tried the blow in fiberglass in a different house, didn't work well with the blower machine, had to constantly stuff it down into the auger to get it to feed.


I read something that makes me think that the cellulose is better in this application, but I can't recall the source. Perhaps some experts here will chime in with some useful information and opinions.


----------



## Woody5506 (Dec 20, 2017)

The only reason I'm reluctant to use it is because if you've ever torn down a ceiling that had cellulose above it, it's a miserable mess to deal with.


----------



## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Dec 21, 2017)

Woody5506 said:


> The only reason I'm reluctant to use it is because if you've ever torn down a ceiling that had cellulose above it, it's a miserable mess to deal with.


Yep, I see what you mean.

 I plan to line the joist bays with plastic, mostly as an air barrier, but also for some containment.  I often what happens when folks who have spray in foam want to remodel?


----------



## EatenByLimestone (Dec 21, 2017)

The congregations in the pipe do fluff it up.  You definitely want to use the full length of hose.  It's the fluff that holds the air.

Cellulose and fiberglass both insulate.  Cellulose has a touch more r value, fiberglass is a dream to clean up.  

Another option is to call an insulation company to do it.  It's stupid cheap and the mess is contained to inside their rig.  Really, call and get a quote and then price out the stuff from home depot.  It makes me wonder why I ever blew the stuff in myself.


----------



## Woody5506 (Dec 21, 2017)

EatenByLimestone said:


> The congregations in the pipe do fluff it up.  You definitely want to use the full length of hose.  It's the fluff that holds the air.
> 
> Cellulose and fiberglass both insulate.  Cellulose has a touch more r value, fiberglass is a dream to clean up.
> 
> Another option is to call an insulation company to do it.  It's stupid cheap and the mess is contained to inside their rig.  Really, call and get a quote and then price out the stuff from home depot.  It makes me wonder why I ever blew the stuff in myself.




I actually have a guy coming over today to give me an estimate. For the amount of insulation I need between 3 attic spaces, I'm really questioning whether I'd really have the motivation to get it all done myself, not to mention how much it would even require...I think it'd end up being a nightmare with 50 trips to home depot buying pallet after pallet of blow in.


----------



## FTG-05 (Dec 21, 2017)

ED 3000 said:


> I read something that makes me think that the cellulose is better in this application, but I can't recall the source. Perhaps some experts here will chime in with some useful information and opinions.



Cellulose hands down.  Let's count the ways:

- Resistant to fire:  Cell (not even close)
- Actually insulates vs just traps air:  Cell
- Better noise reduction:  Cell
- Resistance to pests and vermin:  Cell (not even close)
- Resistance to water and moisture damage:  Equal
- Weight:  Fiber

ETA:  Air Infiltration:    Cell (not even close, there's a reason fiberglass is referred to as "filter-glass").  And air infiltration is one of the leading causes of losing heat (and air conditioned air) to the attic area costing mucho $$$.

The first four items make it a no contest decision.  I just had my attic done with 8-10" of cellulose.  The amount of wood we've had to use this year so far is about half what it was last year.  There was an immediate temp reduction in the garage last summer (we had the garage attic insulated as well) that was very much welcomed by my wife (she parks her car there).


----------



## blades (Dec 21, 2017)

For the hype about Fiberglass insulation there is one dirty little secret that those MFG never mention- as temps decline Fiberglass losses its R value.  I believe to air migration through it. Cellulose even when settled does not.
Dense pack- should only be done by a firm that has much experience with this process- requires a much high psi blower to accomplish. results are worth while - this mostly for wall cavities although with proper installation can be used on cathedral( requires a net/membrane to hold in place) ceilings and similar. I never researched if cell was available in bats like Fiberglass- I would thinks so though. Just never seen it advertised or talked about in the diy areas.  Unlike foam in wall cavities  adding electric or piping can be done relatively easily .  In time even dense pack will settle a bit. It is about the greenest insulation out there as it is recycled paper for the most part, treated with Boron( i think ) for fire and likely something else for bugs. been awhile since i dug into the fiberglass/ cellulose controversy.
addendum - foam shrinks also with age.


----------



## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Dec 21, 2017)

blades said:


> For the hype about Fiberglass insulation there is one dirty little secret that those MFG never mention- as temps decline Fiberglass losses its R value.  I believe to air migration through it. Cellulose even when settled does not.
> Dense pack- should only be done by a firm that has much experience with this process- requires a much high psi blower to accomplish. results are worth while - this mostly for wall cavities although with proper installation can be used on cathedral( requires a net/membrane to hold in place) ceilings and similar. I never researched if cell was available in bats like Fiberglass- I would thinks so though. Just never seen it advertised or talked about in the diy areas.  Unlike foam in wall cavities  adding electric or piping can be done relatively easily .  In time even dense pack will settle a bit. It is about the greenest insulation out there as it is recycled paper for the most part, treated with Boron( i think ) for fire and likely something else for bugs. been awhile since i dug into the fiberglass/ cellulose controversy.
> addendum - foam shrinks also with age.


Nice, thanks blades.


----------



## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Dec 21, 2017)

FTG-05 said:


> Cellulose hands down.  Let's count the ways:
> 
> - Resistant to fire:  Cell (not even close)
> - Actually insulates vs just traps air:  Cell
> ...


Thanks FTG- I was hoping for a list just like this. Very valuable to readers.


----------



## begreen (Dec 21, 2017)

http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/guest-blogs/fiberglass-versus-cellulose
http://www.ntcinsulation.com/the-insulation-lab/fiberglass-verses-cellulose-which-is-better


----------



## blades (Dec 21, 2017)

Only got the fire retardet chemical wrong- not bad as I read those articles or similar some where back in the 80's


----------



## FTG-05 (Dec 22, 2017)

ED 3000 said:


> Thanks FTG- I was hoping for a list just like this. Very valuable to readers.



Please read the edit I made about air infiltration, I forgot about that, one of begreen's links reminded me.

Thanks!


----------



## blades (Dec 22, 2017)

I find playing with short little bits of glass strands  a heck of a lot more problematic than paper bits.  It is almost worse than a full blown case of poison Ivy or similar. Dang firberglass leavings wiggle there way thru anything.


----------



## FTG-05 (Dec 22, 2017)

I think one of the 5 greatest scams of the 20th century was Owens Corning taking a near worthless material (spun fiberglass) and turning it into a multi-billion dollar insulation business.  Kudos to them.

Still crap to use for insulation IMO.


----------

