# Suggestions for diverting vent soot from vinyl siding



## stripedbass (Mar 21, 2013)

I have a direct vent Vermont Castings heater called Stardance. It uses gas logs. 

Due to a problem it had, it released some soot above the vent outside. I will have the problem fixed. 

However, I was wondering whether I could have a sort of hood placed above the vent so that if the soot problem ever happened again the soot would not go onto the siding. 

I was thinking that if the hood was at an angle, tilting upward, the soot could be diverted away from the siding and soffit. 

I'm including photos (below) so that you can see what I'm talking about. 

Does anyone know whether such a hood exists? 

Where could I go to find out? 

What kind of technician deals with such a job? 

Any feedback will be highly appreciated. I would like to solve this problem once the weather gets warmer. 

Here are the photos: 

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu194/coolstripedbass/IMG_2254_zpsd3c305d0.jpg 

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu194/coolstripedbass/IMG_2253_zpsd766db7a.jpg


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## DAKSY (Mar 22, 2013)

The soot is PROBABLY coming from  the ATF ratio. The air shutter needs to be opened more. More evidence of this condition will be sooty glass & logs. I don't see where a small aluminum diverter will hurt the operation of your unit. You'll need a siding guy (or your local hearthshop) to bend something that can be zipscrewed to the lip on the top of the vinyl siding stand-off...HTH


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## stripedbass (Mar 22, 2013)

Daksy,

Your suggestions are always good. I have all your notes that you have provided me in the past. As soon as the weather gets a bit warmer I'll try to get this soot issue resolved once and for all. Right now, due to the snow on the ground and cold, it's not convenient to get the technician in and the person who's going to clean the soot from the vinyl siding (I hope it will come off easily). I will let you know how all this goes.

In the meantime, the reason why I posted is that even if I get the ATF (air to fuel?) ratio fixed, I just want to have a protection for the vinyl siding since this is a condo building. I'm trying to get suggestions beforehand so that I can do this all at once.

I am VERY interested in your suggestion of a small aluminum diverter. I actually had to look up "zip screws." I had never heard of them! They sound just right for this type of work. Are you saying that the diverter can be screwed right above the vent? If this can divert the soot away from the siding, it would be a great relief for me. I will ask around to see who can make one for me. Maybe the technician himself can do it. But I'm the type of person who likes to have more than one choice, just in case one avenue doesn't come through.

The other alternative I was thinking is trying to find a vent that can extend out more yet not look weird. If it was round it would be okay. I need to look up DuraVent and see whether this type of vent termination cap comes in other shapes. The cap that I have right now I think would look very strange if it was extended out because it's a square.

By the way, the reason I avoided going through the roof is that the condo building had had various leak issues in the past. In trying to avoid one problem, another one cropped up. That's life for you.


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## DAKSY (Mar 22, 2013)

The soot will come right off. I've used Rutland "Speedy White" which is a stove (pyroceram) glass cleaner.

http://ndlhearth.com/speedy-white.html

Works really good on sooty gas deposits. IIRC that Vinyl Siding shield is 14" wide & the top lip stands out about 3". If you bent up a piece of aluminum that was full width with the first bend at 3" & maybe a 45 degree angle upwards, you'd be good to go. You may have to come out the full depth of the soffet, but being that high up I think aesthetically it wouldn't be a show stopper.


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## stripedbass (Mar 22, 2013)

Daksy,

Thank you very much.

Today, before heading to work (I work from 4:00pm to around midnight) I went to a local Home Depot and found out that they have that Rutland "Speedy White."

Then I also discovered that they have aluminum sheets at Home Depot which one can cut down.

But there's also a local HVAC company that will do customary work such as the diverter you suggested.

I also visited a work shop that welds, shears, cuts and bends metal. They told me they could cut or shape me any piece of metaI want.

What I will have to determine is whether aluminum is strong enough to keep the 45 degree angle or whether it will gradually drop. Maybe stainless steel will be stronger or is this overkill? Also, someone told me that stainless steel may hold up better because it supposedly does not oxidize.

So some options are beginning to take shape, thanks to your suggestion.

I'll let you know how it all pans out. I'll be really glad if I get this whole problem solved.
.


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## stripedbass (Mar 31, 2013)

Daksy,

While I wait for the technician to come over (the weather is getting much warmer now), I thought I'd ask you something. Below are two photos of the vent used by my local Starbucks. The store has a gas fireplace that operates with the same logs as mine. But it's much bigger and is designed to look like a fireplace rather than a stove. But like I said, the logs are just like mine. Also, it's most likely made by another company rather than Vermont Castings.

In any case, my question is whether the vent used by Starbucks can work with my stove. The Starbucks vent is round and sticks out further from the wall, as you can see from the photos below.


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## DAKSY (Mar 31, 2013)

Hey, stripedbass. That type of cap MAY work, if there's one that will fit your particular brand of Direct Vent (DV). Different brands are NOT compatible, & if you want to use it, you may hafta replace EVERYTHING back to the appliance. Show these pics to your tech, when he shows up. He should be able to research the brand you have & see if there's a compatible round cap. He will hafta get creative in the area where the existing Trapezoidal Cap is located, as there won't be a watertight seal with the round one where it passes thru the thimble... I imagine enough silicone will seal it, but it might look worse than a deflector. I will say, that once the air shutter is correctly positioned, you should NEVER have this issue again...Good Luck!


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## stripedbass (Mar 31, 2013)

Daksy,

I really appreciate your feedback. I will show the photos to the technician. This was the best part of your response: "I will say, that once the air shutter is correctly positioned, you should NEVER have this issue again." I will be damned pleased when this issue gets truly resolved!


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## stripedbass (May 13, 2013)

I'm finally about to have my soot problem fixed.

My question is this: I have located a fireplace technician who says he can fix the problem and remove the soot for a starting charge of about $200. He explained that he could charge extra if he needs to order a spare part and make another visit. 

But I've also located a plumber for a starting charge of $125. He too could charge more if he needs to order a spare part and make an additional visit. 

Is it better to go with a fireplace technician or a plumber? I'm told that all plumbers can work with gas but not all of them choose to work with gas. The plumber that I located works with gas and was recommended by a well-known plumbing supply store in my neighborhood. 

I found the fireplace technician on the Internet. He has a two-man fireplace repair company. His website says they "exclusively service gas fireplaces, gas stoves and gas inserts, making them our specialty."

The advantage to the plumber is that his company is only one town away and he has an answering service. The technician, by his own account when we spoke on the phone, is based much further away and basically operate out of their cell phones.


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## DAKSY (May 13, 2013)

stripedbass said:


> I'm finally about to have my soot problem fixed.
> 
> My question is this: I have located a fireplace technician who says he can fix the problem and remove the soot for a starting charge of about $200. He explained that he could charge extra if he needs to order a spare part and make another visit.
> 
> ...


 

You might wanna ask your building inspector. I know that when I worked for a NY-based company, we couldn't run the gas line or the venting in Ma., because ONLY Union Plumbers are licensed to do those tasks. Sounded kinda dumb to me, at least the Venting part, but what do I know?


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## stripedbass (Oct 21, 2013)

Hi Daksy,

Back in May I decided to go with a plumber rather than a stove technician. He came, looked at my stove and vent on the outside of the building. He said that he needed $125 for the visit and would return in a week to adjust my stove (and would apply the $125 toward any work he did). He also asked to borrow my heater manual. However, he never returned. I called and left numerous messages with his answering service. To make a long story short, he finally came on Saturday (two days ago) after I threatened to file a complaint with the Massachusetts Board of State Examiners and Gas Fitters (someone gave me this suggestion). He changed my vent so that it now sticks out further from the wall (at no charge). But he did not make any adjustments to the air to fuel ratio. He also cleaned some of the soot that built up on the vinyl siding. 

For the stove itself I plan to get someone who knows Vermont Castings to adjust the fuel to air ratio.

In the meantime, I just want to show you a photo of how the plumber changed the vent so that soot does not get onto the vinyl siding anymore. What do you think of his solution?



DAKSY said:


> You might wanna ask your building inspector. I know that when I worked for a NY-based company, we couldn't run the gas line or the venting in Ma., because ONLY Union Plumbers are licensed to do those tasks. Sounded kinda dumb to me, at least the Venting part, but what do I know?


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## stripedbass (Oct 21, 2013)

Somehow, the photo did not load up on my previous post. Here's a second attempt. You have to click on the photo to get a bigger view and actually see my vent.


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## stripedbass (Oct 21, 2013)

Here's yet another attempt. This time it worked! The full photo came on. As you can tell, I'm not computer savvy.


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## Heatsource (Oct 21, 2013)

that is quite odd.
never thought to do it that way!
i'd prefer to tighten up the venting, adjust air-fuel, derate the MB orifice, add a small sheetmetal diverter above the cap, etc.
i wouldn't let an inspector see it


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## stripedbass (Oct 21, 2013)

A1Stoves.com,

It's very hard for a layman like me to know what is right in terms of venting and adjusting the stove.

1) As I said, I'll get someone who knows Vermont Castings stoves to adjust the air to fuel ratio.

2) What do you mean by "derate the MB orifice"?

3) Given what the plumber has already done, is adding "a small sheetmetal diverter above the cap" still necessary? The plumber told me that by inserting the pipe onto the vent, soot should not get onto the vinyl siding. Was he right or is it one of things where we have to just sit and wait to see what actually happens in the winter when the heater is on?

In any case, I really appreciate your feedback.


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## Heatsource (Oct 21, 2013)

2-i mean put a smaller main burner orifice in it- derating the capacity slightly can dramatically reduce sooting- especially in LPG models.

3a-no, at this point no sheetmetal diverter is needed

3b-the plumber was right, if he made a good connection, no soot should get on the siding. he was wrong however to modify the UL listed materials. He isn't a test lab or an engineer.


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## stripedbass (Oct 21, 2013)

A1Stoves.com,

Thank you very much for your feedback. I'm learning a lot.

Let me ask you something. My heater is made for propane but has a conversion kit to allow it to use natural gas which is what it uses now.

When I had this heater installed, I told the installer that it needed a conversion kit. He said no problem, he would supply me with one but I would have to pay (which I did, it was around $80). Later on, after I had the soot problem, I discovered that Vermont Castings no longer made my particular stove and that spare parts for it were also not being made. However, I learned that some online places still had authentic parts for my stove. One company I discovered even had the original conversion kit for my stove. 

My biggest worry has been that the conversion kit that was used by my installer was the wrong one. I say this because I once had a Vermont Castings dealer at my place and he seemed to feel that the kit in my heater was the wrong one. But he was a young dealer and we did not do anything about it at the time.

My question to you is: How can I confirm whether the conversion kit in my heater is the right one or not? As I said, I know where I can order the right kit. But I do not want to order one, unless I know for sure that the one in my heater is the wrong one. Is there a way of confirming this or do I simply have to order for the correct conversion kit and replace what I have, no matter whether what I already have is the correct kit?


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## Heatsource (Oct 21, 2013)

pull the main burner orifice(s) and compare the size using a orifice bit index to the size listed in the manual.
you can braise shut the opening and re-drill it if needed 
some folks even peen the tip shut with a hammer, but i dont like that method.


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## DAKSY (Oct 21, 2013)

A1Stoves.com said:


> pull the main burner orifice(s) and compare the size using a orifice bit index to the size listed in the manual.
> you can braise shut the opening and re-drill it if needed
> some folks even peen the tip shut with a hammer, but i dont like that method.


 
You can also take the orifice to a hearth shop or a gas supply/service company. They have reamer kits that can be used to open the orifice & allow you to swage in a plug that can be re-drilled to the correct ID...


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## stripedbass (Oct 21, 2013)

A1Stoves.com & Daksy,


I don't think I understand your orifice suggestions. Keep in mind that I'm a layman and know nothing about heating and venting. Is this a part that I can pull out of my stove and take to a store?

Anyway, in the meantime, do you think that my newly designed vent will actually keep the soot away from the vinyl siding?


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## DAKSY (Oct 22, 2013)

Sorry about that. The burner orifice is a small brass fitting that is located in the gas flow, where the fuel enters the burner. It is sized for different fuels or elevations. The hole in the orifice restricts the size of the gas stream entering the burner.
As long as the the Air-to-Fuel ratio is correct, there shouldn't be any sooting, but there are exceptions. 
The makeshift vent configuration that your plumber came up with may cause additional problems. As Dave pointed out, your unit has not been tested to operate with this design.


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## stripedbass (Oct 30, 2013)

Folks,

Please bear with me. I know that my heater issue has gone on for quite a while. As I may have mentioned before, my plumber had disappeared on me for 5 months after I had already paid him and he had taken my heater's manual with him.

He finally returned two weeks ago and did the work on the vent. And I finally got my manual back on Monday.

I will certainly have the heater itself checked out by a qualified technician.

However, before I do this, I just wanted to see whether there is anyway of determining that the vent is not working right. I ask this because to me, it seems to be working fine. The problem with Vermont Castings is that they don't seem to have a tech person you can call. Their website simply lists dealers in one's area. They in turn are either very busy or simply frown on anyone who did not buy the heater from them. I bought my heater used.

I guess what I'm trying to say is is there a way to test whether the work on the vent is okay?


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## DAKSY (Oct 30, 2013)

stripedbass said:


> Folks,
> 
> Please bear with me. I know that my heater issue has gone on for quite a while. As I may have mentioned before, my plumber had disappeared on me for 5 months after I had already paid him and he had taken my heater's manual with him.
> 
> ...



If there are no issues, say sooting on the siding, on the logs or inside the glass 
& the flames seem to be the right color (blue near the burner with yellow tips),
then it's probably working right. If the wind blows the pilot out or if the flames start
to act erratically, then maybe there's an issue. 
Generally speaking, an NFI Certified Gas Tech can teel by looking if it's running right.
The thing to avoid is having something is out of whack in the middle of the heating season.
Emergency calls can be expensive. Best to have it looked at BEFORE you really need it...


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## stripedbass (Oct 30, 2013)

DAKSY said:


> If there are no issues, say sooting on the siding, on the logs or inside the glass
> & the flames seem to be the right color (blue near the burner with yellow tips),
> then it's probably working right. If the wind blows the pilot out or if the flames start
> to act erratically, then maybe there's an issue.
> ...



Daksy,

The flames are just as you describe (blue near the burner with yellow tips). I see no soot anywhere so far.

The only thing that's come up is that I've twice seen a bird enter the exhaust pipe then fly away. I'll have to figure out whether they make caps that can go onto the pipe ends that can let exhaust out and keep birds out. I know that I can probably use chicken wire with a hose clamp. But would prefer something that looks better. I think the pipe is 4 inches wide (forgot to ask the plumber). When the heater is on no bird will want to build a nest but in the summer it might be another story. I'm going to get a professional washer to come and try to remove the left-over soot from the vinyl siding. I was thinking that that would be the right time to try to cap the pipe.


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## DAKSY (Oct 30, 2013)

I got nothing for that. What diameter is out there 4? 5? 6?


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## stripedbass (Oct 31, 2013)

I think the pipe is 4 inches wide. But I'll have to confirm this. 

In the meantime, I carefully read the manual for my stove yesterday. I noticed something I had not seen before. There's a diagram for the right flame pattern. The only difference between the diagram and the flames in my stove is the size. The diagram flames are much smaller. Ever since I've had this stove, even before the work on the vent, the flames have been large. 

There is also a diagram for how the logs are supposed to be set up. It matches my logs.

In any case, I have located a fireplace repair and maintenance company. I've just contacted them and hope to hear back soon, though we're now getting into the busy season, unfortunately. I want them to check out my conversion kit which is propane to natural gas (whether the correct one was used. If not, I located a company online that claims to have the original kit for my stove), the soot problem, and how a wall thermostat can work with my stove as opposed to the remote control which has a number of features. The manual states that the stove can run on a thermostat and gives instructions and a diagram on how to make the connections and the wire/gauge needed. All this thermostat info matches what some of you on this forum informed me a while back. I was really grateful for the advice.


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## stripedbass (Nov 4, 2013)

I've confirmed that the pipe on the vent is 4 inches in diameter.

And this is what I've located on the Web in terms of a possible solution for capping the pipe on its two ends to keep birds from nesting in the spring and summer:

http://www.thehardwarehut.com/catalog-product.php?p_ref=260941

They are called louvers (had never heard of them before). I think they can simply be screwed onto the pipe. The ones above are meant to go into a 4" hole so they are 3.98" on the side that goes into the pipe and 5.95" on the side that faces outside.


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## DAKSY (Nov 4, 2013)

stripedbass said:


> I've confirmed that the pipe on the vent is 4 inches in diameter.
> 
> And this is what I've located on the Web in terms of a possible solution for capping the pipe on its two ends to keep birds from nesting in the spring and summer:
> 
> ...




Worth a shot, but I'd keep an eye on them. If your ATF gets out of whack again, they're gonna soot up pretty quickly, & you'll be right back to square one...


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## stripedbass (Nov 8, 2013)

DAKSY,

You saved me from the cold tonight! It's quite nippy in the Boston area today. It was also very windy earlier on.

When I came home after work and tried to turn on my heater, it wouldn't go on. At first I thought it was the batteries on my remote control that were dead. But even with new batteries the heater wouldn't go on. Then I remembered something you told me recently, regarding the recent modification on my vent. You said:

"If the wind blows the pilot out or if the flames start to act erratically, then maybe there's an issue."

Well, I checked my pilot light, sure enough, it was off. I lit it and the heater is now working well with the remote.

Today was quite windy and I'm thinking that this is what caused the pilot to be blown out since this has never happened before. Even though I'm not an HVAC technician I find it hard to think that the wind can travel from the outside and turn off the pilot, give the shape of the vent pipe that was added. Can this really be the case? Or is there another route?

Questions:

1) Someone from DuraVent (which is the maker of my vent) told me that my heater is a sealed unit so that if there's a problem, any bad gas backs out through the vent outside and not into my home. Is this correct?

2) When the pilot light is blown out, is there any danger of any kind?

3) Would the louvers (http://www.thehardwarehut.com/catalog-product.php?p_ref=260941) that I intend to install on vent pipe prevent the pilot light from being blown out? The original purpose in installing them was to prevent birds from nesting in the vent pipe during the spring or summer. If the louvers won't work is their a venting thing that I can install onto the vent that would vent but prevent the wind from blowing out the pilot?

The earliest that a fireplace technician can come to check out my heater is the 22nd of this month and this is assuming I'm not working on that day (I'll know for sure a week beforehand) since September to December is the busiest season in my line of work. 

I would appreciate any feedback that a kind soul can offer me.


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## DAKSY (Nov 8, 2013)

stripedbass said:


> DAKSY,
> 
> You saved me from the cold tonight! It's quite nippy in the Boston area today. It was also very windy earlier on.
> 
> ...


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## Heatsource (Nov 11, 2013)

I'd highly recommend getting the proper cap and just installing a simple sheet metal diverter above the cap, or de-rating the appliances' main burner.

the plumbers "creative" solution seems to be causing more problems than it solves

maybe hire someone who knows what they are doing to help you?! Vermont castings dealer or other hearth professional.


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## stripedbass (Nov 20, 2013)

Dave,

Today (Tuesday) was a really windy day and the flames in my stove kept getting blown off. But at night, they stayed on. 

What I cannot understand is how the flames are getting blown off. 1) Does the wind actually travel down the vent to the stove? 2) Are you saying that there is no way to save my plumber's solution? There is nothing that can be sealed to prevent the flames from being blown off when it's really windy? 3) Do you think the louvers (http://www.thehardwarehut.com/catalog-product.php?p_ref=260941) that I intend to install may prevent the flames from being blown off? Incidentally, they arrived today.

4) Also, excuse me but what do you mean by "de-rating the appliances' main burner"?

I'm having a hearth professional come out to check out the heater. I ordered a conversion kit today (propane to natural gas) from Vermont Castings through a dealer. The part number is 0005011. The reason I ordered is because I have no way of really knowing whether the kit that's in right now is the real one.

5) You and Daksy have mentioned that I should install a diverter above the cap. The only problem with this is that if I understand both of you correctly, this diverter would have to be quite long. I live in a condo building. I need to be sensitive as to how things look to the eyes of the other 11 owners in my building. My plumber's solution, while it has the issue of the flames being blown out, has a better look than the diverter solution. 

6) What really pisses me off is that DuraVent does not have a cap that sticks out of the wall so that of there's a soot problem it doesn't go onto the vinyl siding. The cap they have is almost flush with the wall. 

7) I plan on using these guys to come and check out my stove: http://massachusettsgasfireplacerepair.com/Home.php. I'm told that they're good. Would you consider them hearth professionals?

Please keep in mind that I'm just a layman trying to wrap my head around this cap and soot problem. 

I appreciate all the feedback I've gotten from you so far.


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## DAKSY (Nov 20, 2013)

Bottom line, Stripedbass, is that with your unit properly tuned, there is no soot to worry about. Your air-to-fuel mixture needs to be adjusted correctly... The cap that is designed for these types of appliances works 99% of the time. The ONLY time I've seen an issue is an install like yours, where the prevailing wind blows straight in the intake. This agitates the pilot flame enough to initiate a safety shutdown. The diverter designed for this cap is just a perforated plate that that covers the entire profile of the cap. With the cob-jobbed set-up your plumber has installed, I don't know of ANYTHING that will definitely help you eliminate the problem. Maybe a shroud could be fabricated to isolate the pilot assembly from the incoming air flow, but without being on-site, I can't begin to tell you how to make it.


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## stripedbass (Nov 20, 2013)

Daksy,

Hi. Just got home from work. It was nice to find your post.

I really wish I understood the hearth world lingo. You state:

"The ONLY time I've seen an issue is an install like yours, where the prevailing wind blows straight in the intake."

Are you saying that the way my plumber modified the cap left the intake exposed to the wind? If so, what part of the cap is the intake? Is it the part around the pipe that the plumber added? I'm assuming that the pipe he added is for the exhaust. Am I correct? (sorry to sound so stupid).

At the risk of sounding really foolish, what powers the intake? In other words, I'm imagining the intake pulls air from the outside. If I'm correct, how does it do this? How does it suck in this air?

But the most interesting part of your post is when you state:

"The diverter designed for this cap is just a perforated plate that that covers the entire profile of the cap."

Are you saying that there is a diverter designed for this cap? If so, I assume it's made by DuraVent since DuraVent is the manufacturer of the cap. This is news to me. I had assumed all along that there was no diverter made for this cap and that one would have to be fabricated. If you know of a link that has a photo I'd really appreciate it.

You also state:

"Maybe a shroud could be fabricated to isolate the pilot assembly from the incoming air flow, but without being on-site, I can't begin to tell you how to make it."

Where is the pilot assembly?

By the way, now that it's night and with no strong winds as I write this post, the heater is working perfectly. In other words, the flames are not being blown out.

Thanks for your feedback!


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## DAKSY (Nov 21, 2013)

[
"The ONLY time I've seen an issue is an install like yours, where the prevailing wind blows straight in the intake."

Are you saying that the way my plumber modified the cap left the intake exposed to the wind? If so, what part of the cap is the intake? Is it the part around the pipe that the plumber added? I'm assuming that the pipe he added is for the exhaust. Am I correct? (sorry to sound so stupid).

At the risk of sounding really foolish, what powers the intake? In other words, I'm imagining the intake pulls air from the outside. If I'm correct, how does it do this? How does it suck in this air?

The* intake is the gap between the inner & outer diameters of the pipe. The exhaust is 4" dia. The Outside Diameter of the outermost pipe is 6-5/8", so the intake is the area between the two...When you burn the oxygen in the firebox, the by-products are exhausted OUT the 4" dia. That air has to be replaced so incoming air does just that. Nothing mechanical, It's natural draft...*

But the most interesting part of your post is when you state:

"The diverter designed for this cap is just a perforated plate that that covers the entire profile of the cap."

Are you saying that there is a diverter designed for this cap? If so, I assume it's made by DuraVent since DuraVent is the manufacturer of the cap. This is news to me. I had assumed all along that there was no diverter made for this cap and that one would have to be fabricated. If you know of a link that has a photo I'd really appreciate it.

*http://www.ventingpipe.com/duravent-46dva-wg-4-x-6-5-8-inner-diameter-galvanized-horizontal-windguard/p1760917*

You also state:

"Maybe a shroud could be fabricated to isolate the pilot assembly from the incoming air flow, but without being on-site, I can't begin to tell you how to make it."

Where is the pilot assembly?

*Inside the firebox. Each DV unit is different. Generally behind the log set...*

By the way, now that it's night and with no strong winds as I write this post, the heater is working perfectly. In other words, the flames are not being blown out.

Thanks for your feedback![/quote]


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## stripedbass (Nov 22, 2013)

Daksy,

As always, thank you very much.

If the link you provided was for the diverter that Dave mentioned, then I don't see how it can help me. In other words, I can't see it diverting soot away from the vinlyl siding. If, on the other hand, it's to protect against wind, I don't see how it can help me now since I have a pipe sticking out of the vent.

However, I at least now have a better idea of how the vent works, from your explanation. If I'm correct, it seems that the wind is entering in the space around the pipe that the plumber installed since this would be where the intake pipe is. If so, then the louvers will not block the wind but they will keep away the birds.


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## stripedbass (Nov 24, 2013)

This is a diagram of my vent cap before the modification:

http://www.build.com/imagebase/resized/x800/duraventimages/duravent_46dva_hc_line_image_1.jpg

When the plumber modified the vent cap he removed 2 plates and added the pipe you see sticking out with 2 holes. He removed the plate that says "HOT" with an arrow pointing up. And he removed the plate immediately behind the plate that says "HOT."

The question is why would the removal of these 2 plates allow the pilot to blown out on really windy days like today? Also, what can be fabricated to prevent this? These are the big questions swirling in my mind. 

I don't think the wind is entering through the pipe the plumber installed. I cannot see the wind entering any one of the 2 holes in the pipe then making a right or left turn. I think the problem has to do with the 2 plates that were removed. But that's just a hunch.


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## stripedbass (Dec 6, 2013)

Has anyone ever worked with the Star-Kap (http://fieldcontrols.com/starkap.php?)? I'm told it can be used in both vertical and horizontal applications.


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## stripedbass (Dec 6, 2013)

I simply find it impossible to believe that the horizontal DuraVent termination cap is the ONLY cap in the world that can work with a Vermont Castings Stardance stove. 

Why???

I just think that such thinking is designed to push the modest homeowner into buying only what the Big Guys (or the System) wants. This does not encourage innovation which is what made America great and encouraged immigrants like me to come here. 

Why isn't the Star-Kap a better termination cap for me than the DuraVent one???

I'm not going to be bullied into accepting something, just to get along. 

If Consumer Reports magazine told me that the Star-Kap was not a good cap for my Vermont Castings stove then I would easily accept it since they are an independent observer. 

But no one so far has given me any real proof that DuraVent is really the only cap that can work with my stove.

I don't mean to sound rude or ungrateful for the advice I've gotten so far but America is a great nation precisely because one is free to ask the questions I'm asking here!


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## DAKSY (Dec 7, 2013)

Duravent may not be the only one that works. The only folks who can tell you what has been tested with your stove are the manufacturer & the lab that did the actual testing. If you decide to change the termination cap, more than likely you will have to change everything from the stove to the termination to ensure that you are both code compliant & safe.


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## stripedbass (Dec 7, 2013)

DAKSY,

Thanks and I really respect your honesty. I know you've only wanted to help me and trust me: I'm very grateful for your past advice. I'm currently utilizing the skills I picked up as a journalist (my former profession). In other words, let's just say that I'm doing some digging around. Will let you know if I uncover anything. I'm just not impressed with the DuraVent horizontal termination cap. Sorry but I need to be honest as a consumer. I think it's too close to the wall. Even if a stove is working fine, I can still picture some sort of discoloration happening on the vinyl siding above. Yes, one can attach a diverter. But why should the consumer have to do this? Can't they come up with a better cap or can't Vermont Castings find another ventilation maker who will offer a better alternative? Anyway, this is not about you but the system as it exists at the moment. I just don't feel it's fair.


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## Heatsource (Dec 9, 2013)

A properly installed and adjusted stove will not make any soot, i'd guess that's duravents reasoning


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## stripedbass (Dec 11, 2013)

No offense, Dave, but looking at your website would suggest that you are not an objective observer on this issue since you have a vested interest to make sales. I don't think it's in your interest to rock the boat, if you know what I mean. You're a businessman who sells stoves, parts and does servicing. The system, as it is, works for you otherwise you would not be in business. I'm a consumer looking for a better deal than what I'm getting at the moment. Were not in the same situation.

To me, the vent caps below would be much better for my situation. But to even think about them one gets scared off (Don't even look at them! They are not approved by the manufacturer of your stove! etc, etc).


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## DAKSY (Dec 11, 2013)

OK





stripedbass said:


> No offense, Dave, but looking at your website would suggest that you are not an objective observer on this issue since you have a vested interest to make sales. I don't think it's in your interest to rock the boat, if you know what I mean. You're a businessman who sells stoves, parts and does servicing. The system, as it is, works for you otherwise you would not be in business. I'm a consumer looking for a better deal than what I'm getting at the moment. Were not in the same situation.
> 
> To me, the vent caps below would be much better for my situation. But to even think about them one gets scared off (Don't even look at them! They are not approved by the manufacturer of your stove! etc, etc).



OK. This one has run it's course & we're getting off track. SB, you seem to have issues that can't be resolved here. All the advice that that Dave Gault & I have given you seems to be falling on deaf ears. Bottom line is that a properly tuned stove will NOT SOOT THE SIDE OF YOUR HOUSE. Bubble gum & bailing wire repairs are not the answer. An unapproved repair may have dire consequences. Injury or even death can result. You obviously do not want to listen. Sorry man, but this thread is officially closed.


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