# Need help trouble-shooting: CONVECTION FAN won't turn on after loud snap!



## hotdawg (Jan 12, 2012)

So, picked up a used stove this weekend, did a total tear down clean yesterday.  Had it burning in the garage for 2 hours today on high and then medium setting.  Everything was clean and working perfectly.  Installed in family room this afternoon, stove ran for another two hours without incident but then fault light came on after a loud snap, and stove went into shut down mode.  I turned off the stove and re-started per the manuals after letting it cool off.  Fault light is gone but now the convection fan won't turn on.  The stove goes through start up mode and gets a good burn but convection blower will not turn on to distribute the heat.  Where do I start?

Not sure since it was working perfectly fine.

It's an Avalon Newport PS.  And ideas would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks!


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## Wi Thundercat (Jan 12, 2012)

Sounds like the blower motor went (.)(.)s up! Or maybe a fuse popped from a power spike?


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## Don2222 (Jan 12, 2012)

Hello

You can test the convection blower with an AC cord.
If the blower works then:
  Most stoves have a temperature controlled switch called a snap disc that turns the fan off after shutdown that is when the exhaust and stove cools down. If this switch is bad then the fans will keep running. This is a called the Low Limit switch mounted to the exhaust plenum that is "Close on Rise" which means the contacts close when stove reaches 140 degrees. Some stoves have a seperate fan switch just for the fans. Check your stove and replace the proper switch and you should be all set.


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## briansol (Jan 12, 2012)

yeah, if you heard the snap, you probably tripped the snap switch (basically a fuse).

You likely loosened some wires/etc when cleaning and caused a short.   "jump" the snap discs with a piece of wire one at a time if you are un sure of which one it is, and then get a replacement for it.  They are 20-40 online.   Try to go over all the connections and wires to make sure there's no shorts or bad connections first or you'll just keep popping them.


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## hotdawg (Jan 12, 2012)

Don2222 said:
			
		

> Hello
> 
> You can test the convection blower with an AC cord.
> If the blower works then:
> Most stoves have a temperature controlled switch called a snap disc that turns the fan off after shutdown that is when the exhaust and stove cools down. If this switch is bad then the fans will keep running. This is a called the Low Limit switch mounted to the exhaust plenum that is "Close on Rise" which means the contacts close when stove reaches 140 degrees. Some stoves have a seperate fan switch just for the fans. Check your stove and replace the proper switch and you should be all set.



Don, is there a way to check to see if that switch is bad?  I'll let the stove cool overnight and start it up again in the morning to see if there's a difference.  I checked the convection fan (visually) and it's as clean as I'm going to get it and it does spin both ways when I checked.  I also forgot to mention this last time when the convection blower didn't turn on, the flame was pretty high and I can hear almost a clutching noise, sort of like something's trying to start but can't.  Not sure if I described that correctly but I shut the stove off because the flame was so healthy/strong and there was no where for the heat to go.  Didn't want the stove to over heat.  I thought for sure it was the convection fan but maybe it's the snap disc.  That would explain the loud snap/crack I heard right before the stove went into shut down mode the first time.


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## hotdawg (Jan 12, 2012)

briansol said:
			
		

> yeah, if you heard the snap, you probably tripped the snap switch (basically a fuse).
> 
> You likely loosened some wires/etc when cleaning and caused a short.   "jump" the snap discs with a piece of wire one at a time if you are un sure of which one it is, and then get a replacement for it.  They are 20-40 online.   Try to go over all the connections and wires to make sure there's no shorts or bad connections first or you'll just keep popping them.



Yeah, no idea what I did but the stove went through a lot in the last few days between the moving it home to cleaning to installing.   I probably loosened some connections but I definitely heard that odd snap/crack before shut down mode and the fault light coming on.  I thought for a second it was my surge protector or the stove not getting the right power from the outlet but that's not the case.  Would that snap disc cause the convection fan to not come on anymore unless I replace it or "jump" it?  And then is it possible for the stove to go through all the start up mode functions and run normally except NOT HAVING THE CONVECTION FAN COME ON?  I didn't know that's possible.


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## Wi Thundercat (Jan 12, 2012)

Yes,once its tripped the blower will not run. It may have a reset in center of disc. If not it has to be replaced or jumped(for testing only)to narrow the cause. Thinking the stove would start up as it usually does as it doesn't know the blower is disabled by disc or motor fault.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 12, 2012)

Wi Thundercat said:
			
		

> Yes,once its tripped the blower will not run. It may have a reset in center of disc. If not it has to be replaced or jumped(for testing only)to narrow the cause. Thinking the stove would start up as it usually does as it doesn't know the blower is disabled by disc or motor fault.



Huh?  

Please explain, manual reset switches on stoves are for over temperature situations and stop the auger.

No auger stove no start.

*WARNING  The following procedure will expose you to 120 volt AC do not do this if you are not used to working with electricity or are all thumbs, this can kill you if make a mistake.*

With the stove off, cold, and unplugged.   Disconnect the convection blower and connect it to a patch cord, plug it in and see if the fan turns at full speed.


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## hotdawg (Jan 12, 2012)

Morning Smokey.  I'm very new at this pellet stove thing so I apologize for needing all this "hand-holding".  I'm at a lose with what to do or where to even start.  I started the stove up again this morning.  Same results.  Here's the sequence of when the stove goes into start up mode:

Turn on stove
Control board lights up
Combustion fan comes on
Auger starts feeding at feed rate of medium
Burnpot fills after 5-10 minutes
Igniter starts flame within this time frame 
Temperature gets high enough, convection blower starts (usually within 3 minutes of big flame)

Stove now goes through all those steps except the last one where the convection blower won't start and fault light eventually comes on.  So is the snap disc blown which is not telling the convection fan to turn on?  Or the convection fan is just blown and has nothing to do with the snap disc?  How do I check for a blown convection fan?  Visually, the fan is in perfect condition nice and shiny, not a speck of dust, spins both ways without a problem.  I saw your warning about handling electrical components in the stove.  This might be over my head.  Maybe I should take it slow and replace the snap discs?  But I'm not sure if that's the faulty part or even if I can get my hands on a replacement.  Help!


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 12, 2012)

hotdawg said:
			
		

> Morning Smokey.  I'm very new at this pellet stove thing so I apologize for needing all this "hand-holding".  I'm at a lose with what to do or where to even start.  I started the stove up again this morning.  Same results.  Here's the sequence of when the stove goes into start up mode:
> 
> Turn on stove
> Control board lights up
> ...



What stove are we talking about?

Since most stoves use the low limit as both a convection fan turn on and proof of fire and your stove actually starts and stays running I'd be more inclined to think the motor or the wiring going to it is going to be the issue, but we need the stove make and model  to look up the wiring diagram.


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## hotdawg (Jan 12, 2012)

Sorry about that.  It's the Avalon Newport stove.  The Jamestown has been awesome so far (knock on wood!).  I'll go tighten all the wires again to see if that's the culprit.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 12, 2012)

Gonna be a while things aren't working very fast between here and the Avalon site.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 12, 2012)

Ok I have the manual and have read through a large portion of it.

When the maint required light came on which of the heat level lights was also on?


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## hotdawg (Jan 12, 2012)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

> Ok I have the manual and have read through a large portion of it.
> 
> When the maint required light came on which of the heat level lights was also on?



Smokey, I have the older control board with the knobs.  I don't think it's configured like the newer ones where the fault light comes on along with the lighted 2/4/6 position.  But when the first time the fault light came on, I heard a snap/click and then the light came on and auger stopped feeding and sounded like the stove went into shut down mode.  The heat level at that time was at medium, which was a on light 4.  The second time the fault light came on was when I had the stove running but the convection blower wouldn't come on.  The flame was burning on high, auger was feeding, everything was working except the blower.  I also heard some clutching noises like something was trying to start but couldn't.  I then turned the stove off.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 12, 2012)

Ok then locate the low limit/proof of fire snap disc it should be on the exhaust somewhere near the combustion blower and jumper it (this is done with the stove off and un plugged.  Then plug the stove back in and start it up (likely the convection blower will also start),  Let us know what happens.

There was no wiring diagram in the first manual I downloaded going back for another.

Also was that stove formerly hooked up to a t-stat?


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## Eatonpcat (Jan 12, 2012)

As usual, I am no help for the problem...Just wanted to give the Bear some rep points for being so helpful  Presently giving you a standing O!! It's guys like you that make this site great!! :coolsmile:


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 12, 2012)

Eatonpcat said:
			
		

> As usual, I am no help for the problem...Just wanted to give the Bear some rep points for being so helpful  Presently giving you a standing O!! It's guys like you that make this site great!! :coolsmile:



Thanks, but we fly blind on this end and have to rely on the folks at the other end for hands, eyes, and ears.  As long as they are patient most things can get taken care of.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 12, 2012)

You still with us hotdawg?


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## hotdawg (Jan 12, 2012)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

> Ok then locate the low limit/proof of fire snap disc it should be on the exhaust somewhere near the combustion blower and jumper it (this is done with the stove off and un plugged.  Then plug the stove back in and start it up (likely the convection blower will also start),  Let us know what happens.
> 
> There was no wiring diagram in the first manual I downloaded going back for another.
> 
> Also was that stove formerly hooked up to a t-stat?



Hi Mr. SmokeyTheBear,  this is Hotdawg's wife.  He got called away on a meeting and left this with me.  He'll be back tonight but I wanted to see if there's anything I can do to help out, maybe go buy some parts before the stores closed.  I called a local dealer and she said she has the snap discs in stock but before I buy some, I should figure out if that's the problem?  They also have the small convection fan in stock too, a little pricey but I don't see it for sale anywhere else.  So, first order of business, HOW DO I JUMP THE SNAP DISCS?  Hotdawg threw a bunch of tools at me and three manuals on his way out but I don't think any of it is for jumping wires.  Maybe I can try to bypass the snap disc one at a time to see if the rest of the components still works?  Is that feasible?  I'm sorry for being so clueless about this.  And thank you so very very much for trying to help.  It's really nice of you!


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## hotdawg (Jan 12, 2012)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

> You still with us hotdawg?



LOL!  He's technically not but I think I make a darn good replacement!  (Hotdawg's Wife aka Mrs. Dawg!)  I just sent you a post about jumping snap discs.  I've tightened everything and checked all the wires to make sure everything is intact.  I did notice the red wire for the hopper snap disc was a little loose but I don't think that would be the cause of all this issue.  Also I don't know if Tim (hotdawg) mentioned when we heard the odd snap/crack that it came from the right side of the stove near the control board and the hopper snap disc is on that side.  I was also trying to jimmy up a hotwire to test the convection fan like they show in the manual but I think that wire is legit.  I probably shouldn't try something homemade and killing myself in the process!  What's the next step Mr. Smokey?


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 12, 2012)

hotdawg said:
			
		

> SmokeyTheBear said:
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You can fashion a jumper from a piece of wire from insulated solid Romex and slip the connectors that go to the snap disc on the combustion blower housing on to the soon to exist jumper.  You use a short length of one of the conductors in the cable from which you have removed a 1/4" of insulation on each end from.  Make certain the stove is off, cold and unplugged and that you have wrapped the jumper connections with electrical tape so they can't short against anything.  The plug the stove back in and turn it on.  Report back.

If this causes the convection fan to fire up when the stove is plugged in and turned on we know the convection fan is fine and that the snap disc is the problem.  But do not operate the stove with the jumper installed any longer than we need to verify what is what.

ETA: For anyone reading you should never lie to the stoves controller and by jumping switches you are lying to it by telling it something has occurred that hasn't.   This is only fine for testing.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 12, 2012)

Mrs. Dawg,  you haven't zapped yourself have you?

ETA: Time to go down for a geezer nap and then it is likely to be tend the chickens and do the snow blowing.


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## Don2222 (Jan 12, 2012)

hotdawg said:
			
		

> Morning Smokey.  I'm very new at this pellet stove thing so I apologize for needing all this "hand-holding".  I'm at a lose with what to do or where to even start.  I started the stove up again this morning.  Same results.  Here's the sequence of when the stove goes into start up mode:
> 
> Turn on stove
> Control board lights up
> ...



The snap disc takes over after the start-up cycle so the symptoms you describe are the symptoms of a blown snap disc!!


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## hotdawg (Jan 12, 2012)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

> Mrs. Dawg,  you haven't zapped yourself have you?
> 
> ETA: Time to go down for a geezer nap and then it is likely to be tend the chickens and do the snow blowing.



Mr. Smokey,  hope you had a great nap!  Are you hibernating for the season?   Hope not!  I still need your help!  And no,  I didn't kill myself or burned down the house.  I think my husband will appreciate that.  I couldn't find the supply to make a jumper wire but I ended up making the "hotwire" like the one they used in the service manual to test the convection fan.  I guess this "hotwire" are used to test many other parts in the pellet stove so I probably will use it again.  Plugged it in and the convection fan blew like a charm.  So I'm sure now that it's the snap discs that are causing the problem but I'm not sure if it's the hopper snap disc or the system snap disc, unless there are more then just those two?  Please tell me it's just those two!  Plus they are the only two I can see and access!  Should I just change both of them out?  One is plastic with half white/yellow on top and the other one is white and ceramic looking.


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## hotdawg (Jan 12, 2012)

Don2222 said:
			
		

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Hi Mr. Don, do you know which snap disc controls the convection blower?  The Avalon Newport has a hopper snap disc and then a system snap disc.  I'm not sure which one tells the convection blower to come on after the stove reaches desired temp.  You're right though, it's most like the snap disc.  I just tested the convection blower and it's running perfectly.  Should I just get both of the snap discs if the dealer has it in stock, for just in case days??


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## whlago (Jan 12, 2012)

hotdawg said:
			
		

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Mrs. Dawg,
I don't know a snap disc from a bowl of rice krispies but it sounds like you've done some great troubleshooting here with the very generous help of the "forum elite".  Maybe with what you've discovered you can relay this to your dealer and they can point you to the correct snap disc.  Worth a try as it sounds like you've already been in contact with the dealer regarding this issue.


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## Don2222 (Jan 12, 2012)

hotdawg said:
			
		

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Hello HotDawg

Usually it is the Low Limit Snap disc on or near the Exhaust Blower that controls the convection fan. After the stove is turned off this snap disc senses the exhaust temperature and keeps the convection blower going until the stove cools down. Does that make sense?

See my thread on Everything you want to know about Low Limit Snap Discs including where to get them cheap but were afraid to ask. LOL 
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/87801/

Hope this helps, let me know if you have any more questions.

BTW. Good work on making the "Suicide Cord" they sometimes refer them as that because you need to be careful.
Here is the picture of the one I made.
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/81242/


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 12, 2012)

LOL, no I'm not hibernating although this is prime snoozing time.  I guess Mrs. Bear keeps feeding me so I can't hibernate and have to tend the animals and the stove.

Congrats on doing the suicide cord (patch cord) routine, you now have the title of Chief Flame Keeper as well as a new name Sparky.

I really do hate telling folks to do that, a lot of folks really shouldn't attempt it given some of the things I've seen over the years.  Well it ain't the blower that leaves the wiring, snap disc, and perhaps a triac on the control board.  

The snap disc is on the combustion blower housing if the information on Avalons web site is correct, and that is also where I'd expect it.

Now it is time to tend the chickens since it hasn't stopped snowing it is not time to do the snow blowing yet.


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## hotdawg (Jan 12, 2012)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

> LOL, no I'm not hibernating although this is prime snoozing time.  I guess Mrs. Bear keeps feeding me so I can't hibernate and have to tend the animals and the stove.
> 
> Congrats on doing the suicide cord (patch cord) routine, you now have the title of Chief Flame Keeper as well as a new name Sparky.
> 
> ...



You're awake!  Thanks for all the help today!  You're awesome!  Hotdawg's coming home soon and guess what's burning???  LOL!  He's going to die when he see's I have it running again AND the suicide cord I made!  I'm impressed with myself!  Mostly for not burning down the house or killing myself in the process!  Thanks again for your time today!


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 13, 2012)

hotdawg said:
			
		

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Glad to hear the new beast is burning.

Did you replace the limit switch or was there a loose connection.


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## hotdawg (Jan 13, 2012)

Don2222 said:
			
		

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Wow, your suicide cord looks really fancy!  Mine is just a regular plug with connections on the end.  I would have made it really colorful and pretty but the electric supply store only has basic colors   I'll post a picture of it as soon as I figure out how to post images on this forum.

Mr. Hotdawg is coming home really soon and I can't wait for him to see the RUNNING STOVE!  I'm not pulling out the wine just yet in case it decides to stop on me like yesterday.  I ended up changing out both snap discs since I wasn't exactly sure if one or both was bad.  Almost positive it's the system snap disc (also known as the low limit one).   I'll hold on to them and try to figure out how to run a continuity? test on them to see if they work?  I'm not sure if that's the right term but I'm pretty sure there's some sort of test I can run.  Also went with the ceramic snap disc that Smokey likes.  Cost a little more but I'm just happy the stove is working again AND there's an actual dealer near me that stocks Avalon stove parts.  And yes I will post pics of the second stove otherwise I know, IT DIDN'T HAPPEN!


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## hotdawg (Jan 13, 2012)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

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I replaced both just for the piece of mind.  There was also a slightly loose connection with one of the wires leading to the convection fan, otherwise everything is tight as can be and clean as a whistle!  Thanks again Smokey.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 13, 2012)

Everyone who wants to do their own service work should have a simple multimeter.  It can be used to check voltages and continuity of wire and snap discs.  I bought a cheap digital one back when I started getting involved with model railroading again, now the only use it ever gets is occasional stove use and battery checking.  My cat would do a number on my small trains and structures so that is all packed away these days.

ETA: Anytime.

Enjoy the heat.


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## Wi Thundercat (Jan 13, 2012)

Hey Hotdawg.... Glad it was only a Snap Disc ;-) Enjoy the Heat!


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## imacman (Jan 13, 2012)

hotdawg said:
			
		

> Wow, your suicide cord looks really fancy!  Mine is just a regular plug with connections on the end......



Yep, it doesn't have to be fancy:


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## hotdawg (Jan 13, 2012)

That's what the wife came up with.  Very similar to that in fact.  Not going to win any beauty contest but it sure did the job.


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