# Severely overgrown apple trees,,turn them back to fruit producers?



## sportbikerider78 (Mar 23, 2015)

I have about 10 large apple trees.  They have been completely unkept by the previous land owners.  They have a large central trunk of about 12-15 inches and 20-30' tall.

Is it possible to hack these back down to size?  Will it die if I just cut the main trunk down?  

I know nothing of fruit trees (or any trees) and have never done anything like this.  I read some articles online that say you have to leave 1 branch to promote photosynthesis.  

Any experience?


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## razerface (Mar 23, 2015)

I have the exact problem here. Hoping to get some good info from your thread!


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## begreen (Mar 23, 2015)

Yes they can be pruned back into shape, but this is a multi-year process. By the sound of it these are full size trees. If so, they will never be dwarfs, but you may be able to bring them down a bit in size. Don't lop off the whole top of the tree (pollarding). That will shock the tree and it will start producing water sprouts all over the limbs.

The first goal should be to open up the tree's interior to admit more light. Remove branches that crisscross each other and/or shade other parts. You want to also identify what is new growth and what is no longer producing. Take out old growth with no fruit spurs, but not all at once. Get rid of down hanging branches too. Take off no more than a third per year. Read up and learn how to identify young growth on the tree that will be the future fruit bearing branches. You want to encourage them by opening them up to light, but pay attention to where they are heading as they grow. If it looks like it will be crossing another main limb or potential shoot, you may need to keep it shorter, leaving just a few fruit spurs on it. 

http://www.weekendgardener.net/how-to/prune-apple-trees.htm


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## sportbikerider78 (Mar 23, 2015)

God Lord.  I guess my husky extension saw will get quite the workout.

Great advice...thanks!   

Everything I read says early April is the time to do it, so that is why I'm asking now.


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## begreen (Mar 23, 2015)

I would do it now. We prune here typically in January with a follow up light sucker pruning in July.

_"The best time to prune apple trees is in late winter or very early spring *before any new growth starts."*_


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## osagebow (Mar 23, 2015)

I'm no expert, but just gave mine a HEAVY trim, this will help you get an idea.  Embarrassed I let it go so long, Still have a few tall shoots to deal with.

Begreen, feel free to critique, I know you've done this a long time, and I don't want to show a bad example.
The damage:


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## begreen (Mar 23, 2015)

That's quite a haircut for one year. I haven't done it for a long time. Still learning. I went to a class a few weeks back that's all. It looks like you left some long skinny young branches there. They need trimming back, some maybe as far as the first side branch. Otherwise it will be down on the ground when weighed down with apples. Here's a rough idea.


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## peakbagger (Mar 23, 2015)

Check the pH on your soil. A friend of mine in NH recommends doing heavy liming of the root system to get the pH in balance (our soils tend to be acid). If the soil is too acid the trees will not fruit


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## osagebow (Mar 23, 2015)

sportbikerider78 said:


> God Lord.  I guess my husky extension saw will get quite the workout..




Once you get them in shape, you can add /change varieties by Grafting. Fun stuff. 



begreen said:


> That's quite a haircut for one year. I haven't done it for a long time. Still learning. I went to a class a few weeks back that's all. It looks like you left some long skinny young branches there. They need trimming back, some maybe as far as the first side branch. Here's a rough idea.
> 
> [/ATTACH]



Thanks BG!.


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## begreen (Mar 23, 2015)

When you cut back the young growth be sure to leave at least a couple fruit spurs on the remaining branch segment.


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## sportbikerider78 (Mar 24, 2015)

A few of my trees only have about 4 branches and they are all high up...and none look like new growth.  I need to reduce the entire height and that is comprised of just the trunk.  I can add some pics if that helps.


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## sportbikerider78 (Mar 24, 2015)

osagebow said:


> Once you get them in shape, you can add /change varieties by Grafting. Fun stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks BG!.



That would be great. Can I do bananas and grapefruit?


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## osagebow (Mar 24, 2015)

sportbikerider78 said:


> That would be great. Can I do bananas and grapefruit?



Hahahaha...the pro's can do cherries/ peaches ect. or multiple citrus  on the same tree. If you zoom in you can see where the pink plastic tape is from this years' additions. If one takes I'll cut everything in front to make a new variety branch. The orange taped ones in the back are old red/gold delicious grafts for pollination.


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## Charlotte987 (Mar 28, 2015)

> I know nothing of fruit trees (or any trees) and have never done anything like this.  I read some articles online that say you have to leave 1 branch to promote photosynthesis.
> 
> Any experience?



You should know about the collars of branches, when you prune. They look like this:   
	

		
			
		

		
	









It's best to make sure that you don't harm the collar of the branch when you prune, nor use any tar or material to cover up the wounds in the tree, the tree will heal itself.  The other diagram is an indication of what branches you should remove during this process.  Pruning properly will take about three years. Don't attempt to cut all the branches the first year, do it a little at a time over several years. Best with an older tree.


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## sportbikerider78 (Mar 30, 2015)

What do I do if the tree only has higher branches,,,and only 2-3 of them?  All of them being way to high to pick fruit from?


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## Dune (Mar 30, 2015)

sportbikerider78 said:


> What do I do if the tree only has higher branches,,,and only 2-3 of them?  All of them being way to high to pick fruit from?


Apple makes excellent firewood and seasons quickly too. 

Or;

http://www.amazon.com/Flexrake-LRB190-Fruit-Picker-Telescoping/dp/B002S8BRSQ

As to pruning apple trees, the old school rule of thumb was that a bird should be able to fly through the tree.


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## CrufflerJJ (Apr 1, 2015)

Apple wood is also great for use in charcoal smokers.  Toss a fist sized chunk of apple wood on top of the charcoal, and enjoy the resulting aroma/taste in whatever you're smoking.


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## Charlotte987 (Apr 1, 2015)

If you're able to you can make or buy a ladder for apple picking.  They look like this:                                                     Many people use them and tie the top rungs to the trees to prune and to pick.


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## drz1050 (Apr 1, 2015)

CrufflerJJ said:


> Apple wood is also great for use in charcoal smokers.  Toss a fist sized chunk of apple wood on top of the charcoal, and enjoy the resulting aroma/taste in whatever you're smoking.



Aye, soak it in water first though.


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## sportbikerider78 (Apr 2, 2015)

I have ladders.  I also have a smoker.  What I don't know is how to half the height of an apple tree w/o killing it.

Ya'll have ADD or something?


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## Charlotte987 (Apr 2, 2015)

No I don't have an attention deficit disorder, there is no way that I know of where you can cut half the length of a full grown tree without bringing about its early demise. Anyone with any miracle solutions to cutting a tree in half without it dying, please contact me.


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## begreen (Apr 6, 2015)

It may not die, but it will go into shock and survival mode. That usually means suckering like crazy.


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## osagebow (Apr 6, 2015)

Actually Charlotte, severely cutting an Apple, or any other tree, will not necessarily kill it. It's called coppicing  / pollarding and it's probably what the OP needs to do.

Hey Sportbike, you may have to cut very far down and rely on new shoots coming up that could be grafted if there are no low branches to work with. You could Identify the apple type or types each tree has this year and use them as graft stock for sprouts coming up from the less desireable ones you cut back to stumps, if that makes sense. Cutting halfway might produce shoots that would eventually produce fruit the tree had in the past. Somewhere very low on the tree is a graft union from where the tree was spliced onto a rootstock. any root suckers/sprouts from the base will be from the rootstoock and will not produce a pretty or tasty apple,  Sorry for contributing to the derail,I do have ADD!

I looked for specific sites for coppicing  apples, but found only ones that describe coppicing in general that mention apples and other fruit trees.Let us know how you do, and good luck!

http://vergepermaculture.ca/blog/2014/03/31/coppicing/


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## Charlotte987 (Apr 6, 2015)

This doesn't make any sense Osagebow, I know about pollarding and coppicing and it doesn't work well for old apple trees in more northerly climates. You may as well plant dwarf fruit trees for the years it takes for the coppiced fruit tree to finally bear any apples, if it does at all, it may just throw up shoots and die off especially if you don't look after the new growth. And the asker lives in a place where trees mature much more slowly than they do in VA. This guy will be waiting for apples for more than ten years depending on the type of apple tree he's coppicing. For me this is no solution to his problem.


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## osagebow (Apr 6, 2015)

Charlotte987 said:


> This doesn't make any sense Osagebow, I know about pollarding and coppicing and it doesn't work well for old apple trees. You may as well plant dwarf fruit trees for the years it takes for the coppiced fruit tree to finally bear any apples, if it does at all, it may just throw up shoots and die off especially if you don't look after the new growth. This guy will be waiting for apples for a good ten years or more depending on the type of apple tree he's coppicing. For me this is no solution to his problem.


I meant if he has to cut them down to the ground he can pick a sucker and graft an upper branch from another tree to it, especially if it is a cool antique variety.

https://ask.extension.org/questions/140114#.VSLCffnF8TM


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## osagebow (Apr 6, 2015)

I'm assuming he doesnt want to pull out massive stumps


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## Charlotte987 (Apr 6, 2015)

Grafting works well if you know what you're doing and you're willing to wait, but slow growing trees are the norm in the colder climes. It would likely take double the time that you are used to waiting for a tree to bear fruit. If it were me, I'd likely let them stand and enjoy them for what they are.


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## sportbikerider78 (Apr 7, 2015)

Ok,,thanks for the advice guys.  
Some will need to be removed then.  I don't remove stumps...i'll just cut them low and let nature take its course.

I might just hack one of them off at the 1/2 point and see what happens. Call it an experiment.    I will also read those articles to learn more about grafting and splicing. 

Thanks guys


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## ewdudley (Apr 7, 2015)

sportbikerider78 said:


> What do I do if the tree only has higher branches,,,and only 2-3 of them? All of them being way to high to pick fruit from?



You may be able to train them:

http://learningstore.uwex.edu/assets/pdfs/a1959.pdf


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## semipro (Apr 19, 2015)

Looks like I've got some work to do...


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## begreen (Apr 19, 2015)

It's getting late now. Maybe start with a first pruning in July. Get rid of crossing branches and open up the middle of the tree. Follow up with another pruning in Jan/Feb of next year.


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## billb3 (Apr 19, 2015)

semipro said:


> Looks like I've got some work to do...
> View attachment 157243



I would cut that big one up for firewood and start over plant semi-dwarfs that you don't need a bucket truck or tall ladders to spray every weekend and pick.
By the time you get that monster down to a manageable size you could plant two young  semis in the same space and be getting apples already.
Most of the orchards around here are slowly removing their old full size apple trees and planting half size or smaller to utilize smaller equipments with just more density per acre.


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## semipro (Apr 20, 2015)

billb3 said:


> I would cut that big one up for firewood and start over plant semi-dwarfs that you don't need a bucket truck or tall ladders to spray every weekend and pick.
> By the time you get that monster down to a manageable size you could plant two young  semis in the same space and be getting apples already.
> Most of the orchards around here are slowly removing their old full size apple trees and planting half size or smaller to utilize smaller equipments with just more density per acre.


Good point.  This tree has been a good producer with zero maintenance and no pesticides used.  The out-of-reach apples eventually fall and the deer scarf them up.


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## begreen (Apr 20, 2015)

We have a few old trees like that. I wouldn't give them up for anything. They produce boxes of great fruit of an older variety that is relatively disease and bug free. They also provide great shade and beauty and the apples make great cider.

Your tree appears to have good vigor and basic shape. With proper pruning it can continue to produce well and be a focal point for the orchard and shade for the seating area.  But if this more of an out of way place and you want easier picking then replacing the tree with a grafted dwarf may be desirable. Deer love smaller trees too, easy picking for them.


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## sportbikerider78 (Apr 20, 2015)

I dropped one this weekend with a 15" diameter trunk.

Holy cow is that tough wood to split.  20 hits with a 10lb maul and almost nothing.  I had to switch back to some oak just to make sure my testicles hadn't left my body.

It is like one big knot.  I put it all in the "someday when I own a splitter" pile.


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## osagebow (Apr 21, 2015)

begreen said:


> We have a few old trees like that. I wouldn't give them up for anything. They produce boxes of great fruit of an older variety that is relatively disease and bug free. They also provide great shade and beauty and the apples make great cider.
> .




Hmmm.....Winesap?


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## begreen (Apr 22, 2015)

osagebow said:


> Hmmm.....Winesap?


King.


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