# Wood cook stove -- what's the best location?



## vt-new-fp (Apr 9, 2019)

Kitchen layout



__ vt-new-fp
__ Apr 9, 2019





I'm going to be putting a wood cook stove in my kitchen. Here's a map with the two possible locations (A and B).






The little nook (B) is where I believe the original Colonial-era open hearth cooking area was (based on the location of enormous foundation in cellar and no point of that nook). To the left of the nook is the chimney. Flue 2 already has a wood stove in it in the living room (Fisher FP insert, yay Fisher!). Flue 1 has a thimble opening where a wood cook stove used to be located (location A).

The little nook is the warmest place in my house, so my thought was to put the stove there, since the nook is pretty much dead weird space and I thought it would radiate more heat. But, where the word kitchen is written is the north side of the house and very cold. So if the wood stove had the firebox on the left, would it pump more heat into the house and compensate for that cold north area?

I'm looking at old, vintage-type stoves. I currently have a propane range in location A and will continue to use propane (which can get moved around) as a secondary/summer cooking source.

The walls are knotty pine wood paneling, so I'll have to have a heat shield in either location, I guess.

Thanks for any ideas!


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## Jan Pijpelink (Apr 9, 2019)

Your map is not uploaded.


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## bholler (Apr 9, 2019)

The floor plan isn't visible so it is hard to give you much input.  But I will say the vast majority of vintage cook stoves are really meant to burn coal.  They will work with wood but not nearly as well.  Also is the chimney lined?  Is the fisher insert hooked up properly with a liner from the stove all the way to the top of the chimney?


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## vt-new-fp (Apr 9, 2019)

Jan Pijpelink said:


> Your map is not uploaded.



I'm trying everything to upload the photo of my sketch, but it keeps saying it has to be approved by moderators.


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## vt-new-fp (Apr 9, 2019)

bholler said:


> The floor plan isn't visible so it is hard to give you much input.  But I will say the vast majority of vintage cook stoves are really meant to burn coal.  They will work with wood but not nearly as well.  Also is the chimney lined?  Is the fisher insert hooked up properly with a liner from the stove all the way to the top of the chimney?


Yes, Fisher is in flue with stainless liner. This stove is going in a different flue, also lined. I think you can't have two stoves in the same flue. 
How do you know from looking if a wood stove is designed for wood or coal? The ones I see for sale say wood.


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## bholler (Apr 9, 2019)

vt-new-fp said:


> Yes, Fisher is in flue with stainless liner. This stove is going in a different flue, also lined. I think you can't have two stoves in the same flue.
> How do you know from looking if a wood stove is designed for wood or coal? The ones I see for sale say wood.


They always say wood because few people want coal.  Coal stoves will have shaker grates in the bottom of the firebox.  It will also supply air under those grates


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## vt-new-fp (Apr 9, 2019)

bholler said:


> They always say wood because few people want coal.  Coal stoves will have shaker grates in the bottom of the firebox.  It will also supply air under those grates


And what do the ones meant to burn wood look like?


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## bholler (Apr 9, 2019)

vt-new-fp said:


> And what do the ones meant to burn wood look like?


No shaker grates and no air supplied under the fire


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## SpaceBus (Apr 9, 2019)

bholler said:


> No shaker grates and no air supplied under the fire


Very few cook stoves don't have under fire air, even now. I think the kitchen queen is one of the only few. Many cook stoves are also still multi fuel.


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## bholler (Apr 9, 2019)

SpaceBus said:


> Very few cook stoves don't have under fire air, even now. I think the kitchen queen is one of the only few. Many cook stoves are also still multi fuel.


Yes and most of them are very poor woodburners as are almost all multi fuel stoves.


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## begreen (Apr 9, 2019)

Location B looks the best for clearances


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## vt-new-fp (Apr 10, 2019)

Jan Pijpelink said:


> Your map is not uploaded.


Hi -- I just updated original post with layout map. Sorry it's sideways.


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## vt-new-fp (Apr 10, 2019)

bholler said:


> No shaker grates and no air supplied under the fire


I googled images of "shaker grates" and I have not seen those on any stoves I've looked at -- the ones I've seen (I'm in VT and am looking in VT, NH, and Mass) have a long, narrow firebox with two rows of metal prongy things (like teeth) that would hold a log or two. 

I've looked at modern ones, and the firebox looks essentially the same. 

I'm looking for something to boost the heat from the main wood stove and also to cook on with non-purchased fuel for the 7-8 months of the year when it's cold here


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## bholler (Apr 10, 2019)

vt-new-fp said:


> I googled images of "shaker grates" and I have not seen those on any stoves I've looked at -- the ones I've seen (I'm in VT and am looking in VT, NH, and Mass) have a long, narrow firebox with two rows of metal prongy things (like teeth) that would hold a log or two.
> 
> I've looked at modern ones, and the firebox looks essentially the same.
> 
> I'm looking for something to boost the heat from the main wood stove and also to cook on with non-purchased fuel for the 7-8 months of the year when it's cold here


Do the prongs move?  Where is the air supplied to the fire?  Like spacebus said most modern ones are combos as well.  They work much better with coal if they are


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## LAWRENCEELLIOTT (Apr 10, 2019)

wood ones are the best and more reliable.


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## SpaceBus (Apr 10, 2019)

I looked into the antique stove path, and it sucks. They are beautiful and some are fairly clean, but they don't hold a candle to modern stoves. There are a few wood only cook stoves that can meet EPA specs, but all cook stoves are exempt. It took Bholler, Begreen, and a few others to convince me, I'm very stubborn. 

For a decorative piece that will only be used once or twice a year antiques are great. Otherwise modern stoves are incredibly clean, which matters around your own home. They also use 1/3-1/2 less wood than a traditional type of stove.

Find something that looks antique but isn't like the Elmira Fireview, Vermont Bun Baker, etc.


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## peakbagger (Apr 10, 2019)

I know many folks who have installed a wood cook stove intending to use it and it rapidly became a knickknack location. If you go with traditional cookstoves, the area they take up are very large and few kitchens have the space. In order to cook well with them they need to be up to stable temperature yet they are not air tight so they don't hold a fire long so its a game up getting it up to temp quick without warping internal components and then feeding small splits to regulate the temperature. The net result is it takes hours to get it ready to cook well and most folks don't have the patience for it. They were also sized for huge farm families and I have no doubt the various Amish and Menonite versions are sized for a big family in poorly insulated home.  They are not particularly efficient as a heater. Also make sure your floor is reinforced, they weigh a lot and many floors are not framed adequately to support them. Consider sistering in some deeper joists or reducing the spans.

Far better off to install a small wood stove like a Jotul 602 variation or a small morso and put a trivet on the top or one of  these https://www.ebay.com/itm/Coleman-Ca...877?_trksid=p2349526.m4383.l4275.c10#viTabs_0. I expect with the exception of heating some water for humidity the concept of cooking on it will go away except during power outage and you will appreciate the efficiency of a stove made for heating instead of compromise.

Alternatively if you up for some searching a Jotul 404 is great little cookstove. It takes up 1/2 the space. or less than standard old time cookstove.  I have one but its not hooked up (and not for sale)
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c8/7f/c5/c87fc5d6d35fc39bf23dd9fb3dd3b8aa.jpg. They are rare but I see them come up for sale on occasion on craigslist and Ebay. It has a small firebox and heats up quickly.They are a bottom grate design and I have heard of folks who claim they burned coal in them but the manual I have for mine doesn't mention coal. Its not intended for heating. I have talked to one person who cooked with one for several years and seen other testimonials over the years and most loved them but expect many are in seasonal cabins. Not a lot of parts that go wrong and I know I was able to buy a new grate for mine and even if I couldn't I could weld something up pretty quick. The firebox is lined with standard firebricks. The biggest hassle is that its a small firebox and you will need to cut wood sized for it. Most folks who cook with wood stoves get quite picky about their wood and make sure they have a variety of small splits of species and sizes dry and at hand. I knew someone who caretaked a family cabin for  a rich couple from NJ that only visited once or twice a year. One of the many task was to fill up the woodbox in the kitchen with perfectly seasoned and sized wood for the small European wood cookstove prior to the visit

I did run into someone in southern NH several years ago that would snap them up on Craigslist if they were in good condition and priced low. He would resell them to interior designers for installation in older homes in Boston. They were not actually used but fit the décor the designer was looking for. Mine is inadvertently acting that way until I either do the install or build a new place. I have missed out on quite few of them over the years as when they did get listed they go quick and I work for a living so cant go on road trip quick enough to be there first. Selling price is usually in the $1000 to $1500 range unless they are beat up. Many have porcelain finish and if its chipped that drops the value. Mine supposedly came out of three season porch and was used to keep it warm during the day until it really got cold out.

There was a stove dealer from England a year or so who popped up on Hearth. he was looking at buying and importing old wood stoves from Europe to the US. I think he may have had a niche if he imported small european wood cook stoves as I think they were more common in Europe and generally a much smaller size to match smaller homes in Europe. Not sure whatever become of him.


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## vt-new-fp (Apr 10, 2019)

SpaceBus said:


> I looked into the antique stove path, and it sucks. They are beautiful and some are fairly clean, but they don't hold a candle to modern stoves. There are a few wood only cook stoves that can meet EPA specs, but all cook stoves are exempt. It took Bholler, Begreen, and a few others to convince me, I'm very stubborn.
> 
> For a decorative piece that will only be used once or twice a year antiques are great. Otherwise modern stoves are incredibly clean, which matters around your own home. They also use 1/3-1/2 less wood than a traditional type of stove.
> 
> Find something that looks antique but isn't like the Elmira Fireview, Vermont Bun Baker, etc.



That's really helpful, thanks -- I've been looking into what's out there, and it's not the looks of the antique stove that attracts me, it's the price. I had an old Crawford wood (or maybe coal and I didn't know it) cook stove in my kitchen (in location A on my little map) and it had giant holes in it, such that the embers leapt out of the stove - definitely not safe. The old timer who lived in my house before me used the old stove daily most of the year and had a propane range (which I now have) for summer cooking. 

I want something safe, effective, and that will provide warmth. Most of the old stoves I've seen have cracks in the cast iron, like mine, which is a deal killer for me, as it costs $$$$ to fix them. After reading what bholler said about the coal, I did a little googling and found Obadiah's Cook Stove, that costs around $3,000 delivered and looks great, and while it's the cheapest one out there (in the size I want -- I roast a lot), it's still out of my price range.

Space is not an issue for me, I have plenty of room in my kitchen, and do have a poorly insulated house on a large acerage of woods that needs clearing and ongoing management. Just trying to live off the resources I have here as much as possible. 

So it sounds like a $500 antique stove might not be such a great bargain. 

I have seen some 1990-era Elmiras for under $1000 - do you guys think that's a good deal?


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## vt-new-fp (Apr 10, 2019)

peakbagger said:


> I know many folks who have installed a wood cook stove intending to use it and it rapidly became a knickknack location. If you go with traditional cookstoves, the area they take up are very large and few kitchens have the space. In order to cook well with them they need to be up to stable temperature yet they are not air tight so they don't hold a fire long so its a game up getting it up to temp quick without warping internal components and then feeding small splits to regulate the temperature. The net result is it takes hours to get it ready to cook well and most folks don't have the patience for it. They were also sized for huge farm families and I have no doubt the various Amish and Menonite versions are sized for a big family in poorly insulated home.  They are not particularly efficient as a heater. Also make sure your floor is reinforced, they weigh a lot and many floors are not framed adequately to support them. Consider sistering in some deeper joists or reducing the spans.
> 
> Far better off to install a small wood stove like a Jotul 602 variation or a small morso and put a trivet on the top or one of  these https://www.ebay.com/itm/Coleman-Ca...877?_trksid=p2349526.m4383.l4275.c10#viTabs_0. I expect with the exception of heating some water for humidity the concept of cooking on it will go away except during power outage and you will appreciate the efficiency of a stove made for heating instead of compromise.
> 
> ...



That's such a cute little stove! Thanks for all the info. I want to be able to roast meat and bake bread regularly, what's the oven size of your little stove? 
I have a massive fieldstone foundation from an old center chimney and walk-in colonial hearth completely under my kitchen (for location A or B in my map), it's an old house, so weight-bearing isn't an issue.


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## vt-new-fp (Apr 10, 2019)

begreen said:


> View attachment 243209
> 
> 
> Location B looks the best for clearances


Thanks!


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## begreen (Apr 10, 2019)

Not to be contrary,  but I lived with a wood cookstove for 4 years before moving out west. It was in a leaky little cottage in CT with marginal insulation. The stove was full sized, no boiler and made for wood burning. It took up a good quarter of the kitchen. I don't recall the foundry but it was made around 1900 in Buffalo if I remember right. The stove hadn't been used for years, so I brushed it down and steel wooled it, then stove polished. I cleaned it out inside and then just jumped in using it. The cottage had a backup propane heater, but that was expensive heat and I didn't have much income as a young lad back then. I had a few rough starts and fire snuff-outs as I learned about the stove and how to operate it. But by the end of winter I had it down to a science. That big iron keep me alive during a -15º spell and I loved it. It needed to be fed about every 3-4 hrs but once its mass was up to temperature it really heated and cooked well. I think some of the best bread and pies I ever baked came out of that oven. I ran it almost 24/7 in the dead of winter, except when I ran out of wood. It burned pretty cleanly once you got the hang of it and was quite reliable.


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## SpaceBus (Apr 10, 2019)

Check our some of the New England restoration companies on what stoves work best with wood. Antique Stove Docotor, Bryant Stoves, and Barnstable Stoves all sell nice cook stoves. Some with gas burners!


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## begreen (Apr 10, 2019)

Wedgewood and Glenwood were popular. The Heartland Oval is a good workhorse I've read too. I saw one locally. It was gorgeous.


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## peakbagger (Apr 11, 2019)

vt-new-fp said:


> That's such a cute little stove! Thanks for all the info. I want to be able to roast meat and bake bread regularly, what's the oven size of your little stove?
> I have a massive fieldstone foundation from an old center chimney and walk-in colonial hearth completely under my kitchen (for location A or B in my map), it's an old house, so weight-bearing isn't an issue.



The pan supplied with the oven is 12" by 11" and is 8" high. Definitely not something for roasting a turkey


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## vt-new-fp (Apr 11, 2019)

begreen said:


> Wedgewood and Glenwood were popular. The Heartland Oval is a good workhorse I've read too. I saw one locally. It was gorgeous.



I see Glenwoods, Crawfords, and Kalamazoos mostly around here. People still use them. Well, thanks everyone for all the input, and thanks BeGreen for answering the question I came in with, about the placement


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