# First Two Stage Electric Snowblower I have seen



## peakbagger (Feb 3, 2022)

| Toro
					






					www.toro.com
				




Looks pretty impressive, all the electric snowblowers I have seen to date are way too small for the type of snowblowing I need to do. I like that the battery packs are removable and modular, no doubt I would need a few spares for my longer than normal driveway plus I could keep the batteries warm in my house. I expect the drivetrain is potentially simpler. I think new IC engines bans are going to start popping up so at least there is an option.   

Nice to see that one manufacturer is going for this market. I have a fairly new track drive 13HP Honda that I expect to run for long time so I hope I will not be in the market that soon for replacement


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## Solarguy3500 (Feb 3, 2022)

This is the only other battery powered snowblower I've found that looks comparable.






						Snow Joe iON100V-24SB 100-Volt iONPRO Cordless Dual-Stage Sn
					

SUPERCHARGE YOUR SNOW DAY. The next-generation winter-weather warrior meets the legendary line-up of iONPRO snow-clearing tools with the 100-Volt 24-Inch C




					snowjoe.com
				




That Toro unit looks like a serious machine.


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## Brian26 (Feb 4, 2022)

Ryobi also has one that uses their existing 40 volt batteries.










						40V HP Brushless Whisper Series 24” Two-Stage... - RYOBI Tools
					

40V HP Brushless Whisper Series 24” Two-Stage Snow Blower Kit




					ryobitools.com


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## dvellone (Feb 4, 2022)

Just last night I was looking at blowers and saw that Honda has a hybrid blower that I believe is a new model. Didn't scrutinize the model because the price stopped me dead. It's a big machine with a lot of options that, for my location, use and storage space,  spells nightmare failures due to freeze ups.


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## EatenByLimestone (Feb 4, 2022)

Ego has one too.


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## peakbagger (Feb 4, 2022)

dvellone said:


> Just last night I was looking at blowers and saw that Honda has a hybrid blower that I believe is a new model. Didn't scrutinize the model because the price stopped me dead. It's a big machine with a lot of options that, for my location, use and storage space,  spells nightmare failures due to freeze ups


If you look at the specs on the hybrid Honda, it is commercial rig, the tons per hour rating is double my 1332 which is a commercial rig. I would guess the hybrid is a replacement for small tractor loader. If the hybrid is as well built as my 1332, complexity should not be an issue as they are overbuilt for homeowner use.


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## EatenByLimestone (Feb 6, 2022)

Popped up on my YouTube feed today


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## SpaceBus (Feb 6, 2022)

If I didn't already own a two stage blower I would be interested.


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## EatenByLimestone (Feb 7, 2022)

Same here.   My 20yo 5hp gas still has plenty of life left.  The Ego electric mower has been great!  Itll be nice this spring not having to worry if I remembered to run it dry, change oil, varnish in the carb, etc.  Will only have to worry about the blades and maybe not even that.


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## peakbagger (Feb 7, 2022)

My guess is the new series of Lithium cells with deeper charge capacity will be nipping at the heels of moderate gas units in few years. I am not so sure they are ready yet for real snow conditions like my Honda.


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## Dataman (Feb 7, 2022)

Be nice if they used 100ah Standard sized battery instead of special battery pack.  That Toro 7.5ah battery is $359 vs $649 for LOSSIGY LiFePO4 Battery 12V 200Ah Deep Cycle Lithium Iron Battery.   I have 1000ft of driveway and big circle at the end.    I think this Toro is the best of them so far and it would not do it without 2 extra sets of batteries.   That is a lot of money for battery that will be worthless in 5 years.  Gas engine will run lots longer.


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## SpaceBus (Feb 7, 2022)

Dataman said:


> Be nice if they used 100ah Standard sized battery instead of special battery pack.  That Toro 7.5ah battery is $359 vs $649 for LOSSIGY LiFePO4 Battery 12V 200Ah Deep Cycle Lithium Iron Battery.   I have 1000ft of driveway and big circle at the end.    I think this Toro is the best of them so far and it would not do it without 2 extra sets of batteries.   That is a lot of money for battery that will be worthless in 5 years.  Gas engine will run lots longer.


Why would they only last five years? Those batteries probably work in the rest of the Toro line of electric outdoor power equipment, so the investment can be spread out. There are also other benefits to electric equipment; less vibration, less noise, no volatile liquids, and less maintenance.


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## EatenByLimestone (Feb 7, 2022)

peakbagger said:


> My guess is the new series of Lithium cells with deeper charge capacity will be nipping at the heels of moderate gas units in few years. I am not so sure they are ready yet for real snow conditions like my Honda.


That's what I figure too.    I was a bit afraid of thick grass with the electric mower.   And I have stalled it out when I cut too low and the grass was too thick.   But most people don't have grass that can weekly stall out a 6.5hp mower.   And most people don't have the snow of NH. 

I got by for years with a 3.5hp Ariens.   If there was a heavy snowfall on the way, I may need to clear the snow every 6-8".   It really wasn't too bad.  I imagine similar behavior if the electric proves undersized. 

The only place that has shot themselves in the foot by not giving a choice between gas and electric is California.  Not all situations are the same and gas power is certainly the best solution in many situations.    I'm not sure how their commercial service industries are going to pass the increased costs trying to buy enough batteries for a zero turn lawn mowing route.   These guys make the model work by mowing 40 lawns a day.   They'd need another truck driving around with the crew just to hold the batteries!


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## Dataman (Feb 7, 2022)

Re: 18V Lithium Ion drill problem? Li-ion batteries, depending on chemistry, capacity, temperature and age, self-discharge up to 20% per month and lose* 20% capacity per year*. I have had to replace batteries 3-5 years. If they were less expensive this would work. $359 for Toro Battery every 3-5 years when gas don't lose any power. Plus you need 2 sets really unless you have small driveway.


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## peakbagger (Feb 7, 2022)

A general comment is every company has its own proprietary form factor to lock a consumer into their brand. I expect folks remember standard batteries sizes like AAA, A, C, D  cells. Sure would be nice to have standardized battery packs. BTW there are folks who re-cell many lithium battery packs. The actual number of cell form factors are pretty small, the downside is in order for them to work safely they really need to be spot welded rather than spring contacted as a spring contact is overly prone to high resistance. With short circuit amps like these lithum batteries are capable of, a high resistance connection is not something to be desired as it can lead to battery pack melt down.  Re-celling is not that tough for many batteries but the companies frequently use proprietary hardware to keep the cases together. The bummer is the spot welders designed for batteries are very expensive unless someone wants to risk a cheap chinese version of questionable quality. 

The manufacturers can "tune" a lithium cell for output, "tune" them hot and they put out lots of power for long time but numb er of cycles drops significantly, "tune" them conservatively and they last longer.


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## SpaceBus (Feb 7, 2022)

Dataman said:


> Re: 18V Lithium Ion drill problem? Li-ion batteries, depending on chemistry, capacity, temperature and age, self-discharge up to 20% per month and lose* 20% capacity per year*. I have had to replace batteries 3-5 years. If they were less expensive this would work. $359 for Toro Battery every 3-5 years when gas don't lose any power. Plus you need 2 sets really unless you have small driveway.


You can't compare 18v lithium batteries from over a decade ago to modern lithium batteries. That's like saying all cars are bad because they sucked in the 70's.


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## Dataman (Feb 7, 2022)

Sure you can.  In 5 Years the Batteries won't be the same.  In 5 Years the Gas Engine will still have same power for Snowblower.    You will have to replace batteries.   I doubt the Engine will be replaced if maintained properly (Batteries need to be maintained too).  Those batteries for Toro are expensive.    2 Sets needed or more.  I have 1000ft of driveway.   I would need 3 extra sets.   Or 10 gallons of Gas.   Guess which one is cheaper?

They need to be standard battery and more AMPS.


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## SpaceBus (Feb 7, 2022)

Dataman said:


> Sure you can.  In 5 Years the Batteries won't be the same.  In 5 Years the Gas Engine will still have same power for Snowblower.    You will have to replace batteries.   I doubt the Engine will be replaced if maintained properly (Batteries need to be maintained too).  Those batteries for Toro are expensive.    2 Sets needed or more.  I have 1000ft of driveway.   I would need 3 extra sets.   Or 10 gallons of Gas.   Guess which one is cheaper?
> 
> They need to be standard battery and more AMPS.


The batteries are much cheaper in the long run, when you take in the total cost to not only your wallet, but the damage to the environment as well. The gas engines used on outdoor power equipment are horrible for air quality and they are extremely loud, hearing damage loud.


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## Dataman (Feb 7, 2022)

So what do you drive?  Heat with?   I doubt the Gallon of Gas I use will be the Straw that breaks the Camel's Back.   I bet those Batteries produce more Enveronment Damage being made than the Fuel.


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## EatenByLimestone (Feb 7, 2022)

The environment wasn't my concern when buying my electric lawnmower.  I was looking for ease of maintenance.    It'd also be easier for the wife and kid to start it if needed.


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## mcdougy (Feb 7, 2022)

EatenByLimestone said:


> The environment wasn't my concern when buying my electric lawnmower.  I was looking for ease of maintenance.    It'd also be easier for the wife and kid to start it if needed.


Wishful thinking.......maybe if you attach a Xbox or ps5 to it.......😛


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## Dataman (Feb 7, 2022)

My Snowblowers start with 1 Pull one of them.  Other one has Electric and it's Push the Button.  Can't be easier.   Wife tackles the driveway if it's worth running the Tractor with Tractor and Blade.   Then cleanup with Blower or do it all with Blower.  Depends on how much fun we want.


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## peakbagger (Feb 8, 2022)

Battleborn lithium batteries are drop in replacements for 12 volt batteries made with lithium chemistry cells. Build a two stage snowblower with two flat pans for two of the Battle born heated battery units and then its viable somewhat standardized device with no doubt plenty of charge capacity but at $1800 for the pair no doubt the price of the snowblower goes up.

BTW snowblowers used to be built heavy duty but the newer units have been cost engineered to look beefy but are made cheap. A lot of them are just badge engineered.  Most die of bad carbs due to ethanol but even if you can avoid it the fancy features tend to be made cheap. Bearings are chi com, cables are light duty. Replacement parts are usually available for some period of time but when they are out, they are out. I bought a used Honda commercial unit that was well used and I was impressed, it was built for the long term. It was in hard service, gravel driveways had worn out the impeller chute. It died eventually and was replaced with new version. They have now come out with a hybrid commericial unit, electric drive motors and gas engine to blow the snow. My guess is they looked at full electric. At 9K my guess is they would be tough to even find at a dealer.


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## EatenByLimestone (Feb 8, 2022)

Yeah, that kind of knocks the simple machine idea on its ash.  Do they run the electric off a generator ala freight train or batteries?  I can't see how making it more complicated is a good thing.


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## SpaceBus (Feb 8, 2022)

peakbagger said:


> Battleborn lithium batteries are drop in replacements for 12 volt batteries made with lithium chemistry cells. Build a two stage snowblower with two flat pans for two of the Battle born heated battery units and then its viable somewhat standardized device with no doubt plenty of charge capacity but at $1800 for the pair no doubt the price of the snowblower goes up.
> 
> BTW snowblowers used to be built heavy duty but the newer units have been cost engineered to look beefy but are made cheap. A lot of them are just badge engineered.  Most die of bad carbs due to ethanol but even if you can avoid it the fancy features tend to be made cheap. Bearings are chi com, cables are light duty. Replacement parts are usually available for some period of time but when they are out, they are out. I bought a used Honda commercial unit that was well used and I was impressed, it was built for the long term. It was in hard service, gravel driveways had worn out the impeller chute. It died eventually and was replaced with new version. They have now come out with a hybrid commericial unit, electric drive motors and gas engine to blow the snow. My guess is they looked at full electric. At 9K my guess is they would be tough to even find at a dealer.


The auger cable on my Husky ST224 froze and when I went to engage the lever the end broke off. It is kept outdoors, but was under cover. Now I know better, but the cable did seem pretty cheap.


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## peakbagger (Feb 8, 2022)

Sad to say, prior to the used Honda I had bought a expensive Husqvarna, It was badge engineered. from some other manufacturer. The cable froze up on occasion and rotted out in the summer from water sitting in low spot. The assembly to hold the blower handle engaged when in drive was a piece of crap. I was always adjusting it and replacing parts. The eccentric levers that engaged the belts were sloppy. I was willing to work on it but for most I think it would have ended up in a dump long before I got rid of it.


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## SpaceBus (Feb 8, 2022)

peakbagger said:


> Sad to say, prior to the used Honda I had bought a expensive Husqvarna, It was badge engineered. from some other manufacturer. The cable froze up on occasion and rotted out in the summer from water sitting in low spot. The assembly to hold the blower handle engaged when in drive was a piece of crap. I was always adjusting it and replacing parts. The eccentric levers that engaged the belts were sloppy. I was willing to work on it but for most I think it would have ended up in a dump long before I got rid of it.


Mine was not expensive and was a floor model I snagged for $700. I just use it for the areas next to my house, everything else is taken care of with a 76" PTO blower. If it ever dies I will certainly get an electric. I can tell it's not the best piece of equipment ever. The pull cord came out, either broke or the knot came out, so I'm glad it has electric start!


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## EatenByLimestone (Feb 8, 2022)

The electric start on my blower died years ago.  I keep planning on fixing it, but never get around to it.   The pull cord broke and I fixed that, but haven't pulled the electric off to fix it.


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## SpaceBus (Feb 9, 2022)

EatenByLimestone said:


> The electric start on my blower died years ago.  I keep planning on fixing it, but never get around to it.   The pull cord broke and I fixed that, but haven't pulled the electric off to fix it.


I plan on fixing the pull cord, it came out on me while I was using the blower and haven't had a chance to fix it since.


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## EbS-P (Feb 9, 2022)

Dataman said:


> Be nice if they used 100ah Standard sized battery instead of special battery pack.  That Toro 7.5ah battery is $359 vs $649 for LOSSIGY LiFePO4 Battery 12V 200Ah Deep Cycle Lithium Iron Battery.   I have 1000ft of driveway and big circle at the end.    I think this Toro is the best of them so far and it would not do it without 2 extra sets of batteries.   That is a lot of money for battery that will be worthless in 5 years.  Gas engine will run lots longer.


Good thing about snow blowers and batteries is they probably won’t see more than 30 charge cycles a year (assuming you get the job done on one battery charge) .  Just guessing here. If Apple can get 600 cycles out of 2015 technology   I think they would last quite a long time.


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## mellow (Feb 9, 2022)

I could go for a quieter snowblower, would make it easier to hear my music while working,  you could also blow snow during "quiet" hours.


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## EatenByLimestone (Feb 9, 2022)

EbS-P said:


> Good thing about snow blowers and batteries is they probably won’t see more than 30 charge cycles a year (assuming you get the job done on one battery charge) .  Just guessing here. If Apple can get 600 cycles out of 2015 technology   I think they would last quite a long time.



Same with lawn mowers.   One battery does my lawn if I keep on top of it.   Thats no more than 30 weekly mows.  I probably stop mowing in October, pick it up in April or May.   Most of our snowfalls are small enough I do the exercise route and throw shovel fulls, so there's a good chance a battery could last a real long time.


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