# Ash or Hickory?



## golfandwoodnut (Aug 11, 2010)

I will post a picture tomorrow,unless this is an obvious question.  Do Ash trees get nuts? I have some trees that look just like Ash trees but are full of nuts.  I know this is not a shag bark hickory because the bark looks like Ash, but I did not think Ash trees got nuts.  The leaves look the same to me.


----------



## smokinj (Aug 11, 2010)

GolfandWoodNut said:
			
		

> I will post a picture tomorrow,unless this is an obvious question.  Do Ash trees get nuts? I have some trees that look just like Ash trees but are full of nuts.  I know this is not a shag bark hickory because the bark looks like Ash, but I did not think Ash trees got nuts.  The leaves look the same to me.



Pignut hickory, Or if the nuts are larger and green could be walnut.


----------



## golfandwoodnut (Aug 11, 2010)

Thanks Smokin, the nuts are not large enough for walnut, but they are green casings and when they dry become brown.  I will research Pignut.  That will be good in away because I was afraid I would lose all the trees to the ash borer.


----------



## smokinj (Aug 11, 2010)

GolfandWoodNut said:
			
		

> Thanks Smokin, the nuts are not large enough for walnut, but they are green casings and when they dry become brown. I will research Pignut. That will be good in away because I was afraid I would lose all the trees to the ash borer.



small and looks like 4 piece's to the shell is pig-nut.


----------



## golfandwoodnut (Aug 11, 2010)

I never knew how many kinds of Hickory there were.  This might be a Bitternut Hickory, does not look like Pignut. What do you guys think.  You can see how similiar the leef looks to Ash and the Bark does too.


----------



## smokinj (Aug 11, 2010)

GolfandWoodNut said:
			
		

> I never knew how many kinds of Hickory there were.  This might be a Bitternut Hickory, does not look like Pignut. What do you guys think.  You can see how similiar the leef looks to Ash and the Bark does too.




LOL Bingo great score! pignut.


----------



## Danno77 (Aug 11, 2010)

I thought Bitternut Hickory and Pignut Hickory were the one and same......

edit: and yes, that's what it looks like to me....


----------



## golfandwoodnut (Aug 11, 2010)

This got more interesting the more I researched it.  No wonder you can mistake it for Ash (see Picture). Here is what an article said

 "The light gray bark of Bitternut Hickory is the smoothest of the Hickories, and has a sinewy, muscled, sometimes twisted character. With age, it develops interlacing ridges and shallow furrows that may cause it to be mistakenly identified as an ash (which also has compound leaves, but they are opposite, rather than alternate). Bitternut Hickory never develops the peeling character of Shagbark or Shellbark Hickories"


----------



## golfandwoodnut (Aug 11, 2010)

By the way the Pignut and BitterNut do have different nuts.  Although some people do call them all Pignut (there are something like 14 different Hickories in the US).  L learned more about Hickory than I ever cared to know.  The Pignut is more Pear Shaped, the Bitternut is like in my picture. Here is a link if you want to see the different nuts, compliments of gofandwoodnut.
http://www.cas.vanderbilt.edu/bioimages/pages/carya-fruits.htm


----------



## Danno77 (Aug 11, 2010)

GolfandWoodNut said:
			
		

> By the way the Pignut and BitterNut do have different nuts.


if you say so, but Wikipedia says otherwise (not that Wikipedia is the difinitive source of anything, lol)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carya_cordiformis


----------



## golfandwoodnut (Aug 11, 2010)

I saw that link too, I think you got that one before I got the other link posted.  I guess not matter what, it is a Hickory just like a Black Oak is a Red Oak. Also if you notice the bark in Smokinjays picture looks nothing like the Bitternut bark (atleast as I am calling it now certainly I am not the expert).


----------



## smokinj (Aug 11, 2010)

Danno77 said:
			
		

> GolfandWoodNut said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have shag and pignut not herd of any others but there could be out in the world somewhere.


----------



## Adios Pantalones (Aug 11, 2010)

Pignut, bitternut, mockernut, shagbark, hicory, etc. etc.- all have nuts.

We have mostly shags and pignuts (also called smoothbark).


----------



## Backwoods Savage (Aug 11, 2010)

Speaking of hickory, for years I've hated the fact that most of the hickory and walnut trees around our area have been cut down. There are very few left. We do have some young hickory (shag bark) in our woods but don't see a whole lot more. However, last weekend on my bike ride I came upon a farm that many years ago cleared their ditches and fence lines of trees but not the trees are growing again. There are a pastel of young hickory trees! I will talk to him as I know him and hopefully he won't cut those beautiful trees.


----------



## ChrisNJ (Aug 11, 2010)

Love the pic with all the nuts as I recall seeing most of them in my woodlands travels yet never cared to identify them, getting a hankering to head out into the woods now with my id book and start learning to id better.


----------



## Adios Pantalones (Aug 11, 2010)

My grandmother had pignut trees next to her driveway.  My brother and I would gather bags of the nuts and crack/eat them when they were ripe.  More work than walnuts, but I liked them better.


----------



## WOODBUTCHER (Aug 12, 2010)

We have some Pignut Hickory here in CT, but Shagbark is more common.
Some on my pics if that helps you out.

WoodButcher


----------



## bsearcey (Aug 13, 2010)

I know you already know what you have, but an easy way of telling the difference between ash and hickory is the leaf arrangment.  An ash has opposite leaf arrangment and hickorys are alternate.  Think MAD-V (Maple, Ash, Dogwood, Viburnum) all have opposite leaf arrangment (except for alternate leaf dogwood).  Leaf arrangment is one of the first thing I look at when identifying a tree.


----------



## golfandwoodnut (Aug 14, 2010)

bsearcey said:
			
		

> I know you already know what you have, but an easy way of telling the difference between ash and hickory is the leaf arrangment.  An ash has opposite leaf arrangment and hickorys are alternate.  Think MAD-V (Maple, Ash, Dogwood, Viburnum) all have opposite leaf arrangment (except for alternate leaf dogwood).  Leaf arrangment is one of the first thing I look at when identifying a tree.


Bsearcey I am not following, alternate versue opposite. The leaves look the same to  me.


----------



## rwh442 (Aug 14, 2010)

Hickories have an opposite leaf arrrangement.

The shagbark hickories I have in this woods all have 5 leaves - 4 opposite and one in the center.

The pignut hickories, on  the other hand, have 7 leaves - 6 opposite and one in the center.  They do look similar to Ash, even the bark.

Photos of both of these leaf arrangements were shown earlier in this thread.


----------



## bsearcey (Aug 14, 2010)

Rob H said:
			
		

> Hickories have an opposite leaf arrrangement.
> 
> The shagbark hickories I have in this woods all have 5 leaves - 4 opposite and one in the center.
> 
> ...



What you are thinking is the leaf is actually the leaflet.  All five-seven of the leaflets together are the leaf.  It is a pinnately compound leaf.  The leafs are alternately arranged along the twig.

Here is a fact sheet for shagbark from the Virginia Tech dendrology website. 

http://www.dendro.cnre.vt.edu/dendrology/syllabus/factsheet.cfm?ID=20

Ashes have pinnately compound leave also, but where the leafs are attached to the twig directly across from each other.  

http://www.cnr.vt.edu/dendro/dendrology/syllabus/factsheet.cfm?ID=46

Here is a diagram showing leaf arrangment.

http://forestry.about.com/od/forest...-Tree-Gallery/Opposite-or-Alternate-Twigs.htm


----------



## Battenkiller (Aug 14, 2010)

GolfandWoodNut said:
			
		

> Also if you notice the bark in Smokinjays picture looks nothing like the Bitternut bark



I don't know, but what we call bitternut around here has bark that looks a lot like the pic SJ posted.  Maybe we have pignut?  I've never seen the leaves or nuts, only the wood.  Whatever kind of hickory it is, it ain't shagbark and it's damn good firewood.  Right up there with shagbark IMO.


----------



## DBoon (Aug 14, 2010)

The easiest way to tell a Pignut Hickory from a Bitternut Hickory is to crack the nut and eat the nutmeat.  Bitternut Hickories will taste like they are loaded with quinine - have a glass of something sweet nearby that you can drink after this test.  Pignut hickories nuts are very small, and don't have the bitter taste.  

Let us know what the results of your identification is.


----------



## ANeat (Aug 14, 2010)

Do pignut "nuts" taste like pork??  :lol:


----------



## Nixon (Aug 14, 2010)

ANeat said:
			
		

> Do pignut "nuts" taste like pork??  :lol:


Yep ! Pignut tastes like Pork , Bitternut is bitter ,and shag bark tastes like Shag for lack of a word that won't get Me banned .


----------



## rwh442 (Aug 14, 2010)

Bsearcey,

I now understand what you mean by the leaves being alternate on the twig for hickories.

I just walked out in my yard, which is full of shagbarks, and it is very difficult to actually see that the leaves are alternate on the twig.  I would say random and haphazard at best.  At the end of the twig there are always large clusters or leaves.  These always come down in windstorms!


----------



## bsearcey (Aug 14, 2010)

It's difficult to tell when you're staring up into a tree.  I've used binoculars in the field on occasion to help me identify and see those kinds of things.  Don't do it for fun it's part of my job.  If you had a branch off of an ash and a branch of of a hickory you'd be able to see the difference easily.  Also looking at the tips of the branches sometimes can be confusing because the leaves start to get jumbled up and the spacing isn't as obvious.  I alway look further down the branch.


----------

