# TIS Uni wood boilers



## Dale Gross (Feb 8, 2017)

Hello,
Has anyone heard or know anything about the Belkomin TIS line of wood boilers made in Belarus ? There is a company Mbtek selling them from Canada.
Thank You


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## velvetfoot (Feb 8, 2017)

http://mbtek.ca/
Interesting.  Natural vs. reverse gasification.  A little less efficient.  Modulates down to 30%.  $3000CA for 35kW.  Pellet Duo (dual fuel) available for 900 more.  Interesting.


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## leon (Feb 8, 2017)

I would rather see you invest in an EFM, AHS, Axeman Anderson or Leisure Line Coal Stoker boiler 
if you intend to burn coal. the problem is the required CSA/UL/ASME certification and welding for insurance coverage. 
They may build good boilers; but if you buy one and you have a seam failure or bad controis your out $3K plus. 

BEEN THERE DONE THAT with bad controls and lousy plumbers


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## maple1 (Feb 8, 2017)

He said nothing about coal.


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## maple1 (Feb 8, 2017)

I've never heard of these.

First thing I would ask the seller, is if it was CSA certified or not. That's on this side of the border - not sure what would apply south of the border, if unsure I would ask my insurance agent what certification they would need on your new boiler to insure it.

Secondly - by the look of the diagram in the manual I found, it doesn't exactly look like a gasifier. The diagram might not be an accurate representation - but would make me ask more questions.

First impression - looks interesting but raises suspicions.


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## S.Whiplash (Feb 8, 2017)

maple1 said:


> I've never heard of these.
> *
> First thing I would ask the seller, is if it was CSA certified or not. That's on this side of the border - not sure what would apply south of the border*, if unsure I would ask my insurance agent what certification they would need on your new boiler to insure it.
> 
> ...



UL/CSA is a standard requirement for wood boilers sold in N.A. which I seriously doubt this one has and that's the first thing an insurance inspector will look for.  There's hundreds of European brands but very few of them make it across the pond because they don't want to pay for the proper certifications.  This boiler reminds me of the early days of gasification boilers when people were importing un-certified wood boilers directly from kotly.com in Poland, all to save a few bucks.  I wonder how many of those units are still running now, 10 years later....


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## BoiledOver (Feb 9, 2017)

Looks to be every bit worth the cost. Bottom of the Eko line (the 25) is currently listed on sale for $3680US. http://www.newhorizonstore.com/Products/88-eko-gasification-boiler.aspx

By the looks of the design, it would be a warm bottom end and hot top end while secondary combustion is occurring. Not a bad thing at all. Is that a bypass flap in the diagram (unlisted)? A snip from the Uni manual pdf, notice the 3 and 10 year period for the boiler body:





Another snip from the manual pdf:


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## maple1 (Feb 9, 2017)

I'm not so sure how hot that top end is. Looks like it's surrounded by water? (Except for the door area). Unless the diagram isn't quite accurate.

Kinda reminds me of other units that had something similar - that suggested a secondary combustion 'gasifying' area, but it didn't really work that way.

Yes, that looks like a bypass flap.

The lack of a CSA/ULC listing/sticker would be enough on its own for me to pass on - unless maybe I was putting it in a shed that I could take a complete loss on without insurance. Far enough away from the house to prevent damage or affect some kind of other claim there - not saying it would hurt the house, but insurance companies will try really hard to get out of paying claims and a boiler without a sticker would give them something to hammer at/with.


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## bgs (Dec 6, 2017)

Dale Gross said:


> Hello,
> Has anyone heard or know anything about the Belkomin TIS line of wood boilers made in Belarus ? There is a company Mbtek selling them from Canada.
> Thank You


Curious if you went through in purchasing one of these boilers?  I am considering one.


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## MBTEK (Dec 22, 2017)

Hi am the owner of MBTEK and I am proud to supply with my team the most cost effective boiler for American hardworking families on the market.

Contact us 1-888-301-0737, www.mbtek.ca

We have manual, pellets and coal optimize boiler.

Here a map of our North American boiler client: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1PNPqHxidEyyATXEzqmc-qbSiC5o&usp=sharing

You can contact client directly.. I am sure they will be informative and have nice words about it.

Thanks for your attention to our product. These are the best and you can always count on me and my team to help you at any time for any questions.

Happy New Year! Our stock are full of 2018 model ready to ship 3 to 4 days to any US or Canadian address.


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## blades (Dec 22, 2017)

MBTEK welcome-  can you provide more information on the style of burn/ design criteria in what is trying to be achieved .  here stateside you have to play the game with rules set up the US EPA concerning wood fired equipment - coal is a different matter .


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## MBTEK (Dec 22, 2017)

blades said:


> MBTEK welcome-  can you provide more information on the style of burn/ design criteria in what is trying to be achieved .  here stateside you have to play the game with rules set up the US EPA concerning wood fired equipment - coal is a different matter .


Hi blades, We are a people company and our strength is in quality, efficiency and affordability for people being able to purchase a boiler that will bring warmth and money savings for 20 to 30yrs over. If you are such, welcome in our family. Contact our costumer and you will know we are the best. Thanks


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## maple1 (Dec 23, 2017)

Are they CSA or UL certified?


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## hondaracer2oo4 (Dec 23, 2017)

They look interesting but appear to be a conventional boiler with a heat exchanger and some fancy controls. Does any actual secondary burning take place? I would think it would have to in order to not start building creosote when it modulates down from 100 percent.


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## MBTEK (Dec 23, 2017)

hondaracer2oo4 said:


> They look interesting but appear to be a conventional boiler with a heat exchanger and some fancy controls. Does any actual secondary burning take place? I would think it would have to in order to not start building creosote when it modulates down from 100 percent.





maple1 said:


> Are they CSA or UL certified?


The boiler carry the highest standard in the industry and all European certifications. They are fully compatible electrically for USA and Canadian code while not certified CSA / UL. Any question reach us or our customer  all over north america for detail operation and feedback.


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## maple1 (Dec 23, 2017)

Sounds like then that they aren't actually CSA certified. Which would make it and the building it is in uninsurable here.


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## blades (Dec 23, 2017)

Sounds like not epa rated either- so unless coal fired not usable stateside.


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## MBTEK (Dec 23, 2017)

hondaracer2oo4 said:


> They look interesting but appear to be a conventional boiler with a heat exchanger and some fancy controls. Does any actual secondary burning take place? I would think it would have to in order to not start building creosote when it modulates down from 100 percent.





maple1 said:


> Sounds like then that they aren't actually CSA certified. Which would make it and the building it is in uninsurable here.


CSA is not a requirement in most province in Canada. In other case the boiler may be put outside. Please see attach


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## hondaracer2oo4 (Dec 23, 2017)

It's typically a great asset to have the manufacturer involved here but it seems like you don't want to answer the question of how it works. You stated twice to call with questions. ?


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## maple1 (Dec 23, 2017)

MBTEK said:


> CSA is not a requirement in most province in Canada. In other case the boiler may be put outside. Please see attach



That's 5 years old and I'm not sure what it means. But I am sure of what my insurance agent told me. And that's who I have to satisfy.


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## S.Whiplash (Dec 24, 2017)

MBTEK said:


> *CSA is not a requirement in most province in Canada*. In other case the boiler may be put outside. Please see attach



Talk to any insurance company and you will find this statement to be basically false, they won't insure a house heated by any central heating appliance that does not have a legitimate CSA/UL sticker.  As these units are for indoor installations good luck finding customers willing to take that risk, if you honestly divulge the reality you will discover them to be few and far between. This is the reason you don't see a lot of in-expensive European or Asian boilers available in the N.A. market, they are not willing to jump through the costly hoops put in their way for proper certification.  Call it protectionism or blame the insurance companies if you like, but it is what it is.


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## MBTEK (Jan 12, 2018)

We are out there for the hardworking people that need affordable and efficient heating appliance.  Wood boiler is a lot about independent and free living. If your balls are warm and insured keep it there. For all other guys that are out there fighting for a fair free living.. well we are here to help and proud of all people we are helping to simplify their life with the best effective boiler on the market.


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## maple1 (Jan 12, 2018)

???


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## oscar1111 (Mar 18, 2019)

These boilers are of good quality and I think they are worth the money.  I have one.    However, from my experience, MBTEK is extremely frustrating to work with.


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## 3fordasho (Mar 18, 2019)

oscar1111 said:


> These boilers are of good quality and I think they are worth the money.  I have one.    However, from my experience, MBTEK is extremely frustrating to work with.



Do you have any pictures of the combustion chamber(s)?  Trying to determine if these are downdraft gasifiers or a more conventional boiler design.


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## oscar1111 (Apr 9, 2019)

3fordasho said:


> Do you have any pictures of the combustion chamber(s)?  Trying to determine if these are downdraft gasifiers or a more conventional boiler design.


No they are not gasifiers.  Air is blown in from the back and flue gases go up and out the flu.  They are very simple.


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## Karl_northwind (Apr 11, 2019)

Y'know what's pretty wild?  they have a map on their website that shows a bunch of installs.  down to name, phone number and address and boiler model.  I wonder if their customers know that their info is there?  I'm not sure I'd want a record of some non-listed boiler that I had installed at my place......


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## Case1030 (Apr 12, 2019)

Karl_northwind said:


> Y'know what's pretty wild?  they have a map on their website that shows a bunch of installs.  down to name, phone number and address and boiler model.  I wonder if their customers know that their info is there?  I'm not sure I'd want a record of some non-listed boiler that I had installed at my place......



When I talked to MBtek on the phone they claim the customers voluntary submitted their information to help other clients... not sure if many of them would answer never tried.


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## Case1030 (Apr 12, 2019)

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/mbtek-duo-boiler.174596/#post-2347834


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## Case1030 (Apr 12, 2019)

Not many reviews was looking into them few months ago.


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## oscar1111 (Apr 15, 2019)

As a customer, I can attest, they don't ask first.  They put it up there immediately after I placed my order (would be months before I received the product) and then when I mentioned I was getting calls they told me they would be happy to remove it.


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## oscar1111 (Nov 13, 2019)

A year later and pretty happy with my UNI 35 boiler.  MBtek has been a headache,  for sure, but I don't find them to unscrupulous .  I think it's a combination of being an overwhelmed startup company to a French Canadian/American culture adjustment that can infuriate one.  
But good price for getting a wood fired boiler up and running with thermal storage etc.  I would kill to have a true gasifier side by side to mine to see how much better they actually are from a practical point of view.  I don't doubt they are more efficient, but curious from a big picture point of view if they're worth it.


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## Patti (Nov 25, 2019)

Hey Oscar1111! I was the one who posted the original inquiry about the TIS boilers because I was interested in learning more about them. I actually contacted a few of the customers and got replies. Two customers in particular were incredibly helpful and we communicated all of last winter. 
I kept going back & forth about whether to spend the outrageous amount for a high-end gasifiers...but I just can’t justify that kind of money when I still have to cut, split, stack, and stoke wood- even if it is less than other boilers! So, I’m almost ready to take the plunge...just deciding on the size now...it will be either a UNI55, 75 or 95. Going to call MBTEK today...been avoiding that because I’ve heard crappy stuff about the customer service ( but yet they have 100% star rating on eBay from thousands of customers...which isn’t easy to do!!)
I DON’T have patience for poor customer service. (Think I’ll tell the owner that right off the bat  so they know I won’t tolerate any BS!). 
I have a few questions I’m hoping you can help with. What exactly is involved with cleaning and how often did you do? 
Do you have any water storage?
What is your heating system- forced air through an air handler? Infloor hydronic? Rads? Do you heat your domestic hot water with it too? Any problems with its opeartion (any breakdowns?) A big issue for me is smoke - both inside and outside. How did you find it? Looking forward to your feedback! Thanks! Patti


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## SpaceBus (Feb 13, 2020)

Any other owner input? The Uni 15 looks like it would be a sweet little heater for a greenhouse or shop that doesn't need insurance. At least if there is no visible smoke when charging storage. I certainly would not mess around with trying to modulate this kind of boiler.


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## Case1030 (Feb 15, 2020)

SpaceBus said:


> Any other owner input? The Uni 15 looks like it would be a sweet little heater for a greenhouse or shop that doesn't need insurance. At least if there is no visible smoke when charging storage. I certainly would not mess around with trying to modulate this kind of boiler.



I was going to check with my insurance company sometime soon. Next year we are building an 80ft by 50ft in floor heat shop. It would be nice to burn cord wood and have pellets for backup. The Pellet Duo 60- 200k btu holds 880lbs of pellets!

But obviously without insurance it's not worth it unless putting up a small out building but defeats the purpose.


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## SpaceBus (Feb 15, 2020)

Case1030 said:


> I was going to check with my insurance company sometime soon. Next year we are building an 80ft by 50ft in floor heat shop. It would be nice to burn cord wood and have pellets for backup. The Pellet Duo 60- 200k btu holds 880lbs of pellets!
> 
> But obviously without insurance it's not worth it unless putting up a small out building but defeats the purpose.


I doubt any mainstream insurance company will write a policy for it.


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## SpaceBus (Feb 15, 2020)

I started looking at the duo units, I really like the 35 wood/coal/biomass unit. Having a PTO chipper shredder makes a modulating chip boiler seem pretty enticing. No storage needed and I can burn wood pellets if I don't feel like dealing with chips. Would definitely want storage for burning cord wood.


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## Case1030 (Feb 15, 2020)

SpaceBus said:


> I started looking at the duo units, I really like the 35 wood/coal/biomass unit. Having a PTO chipper shredder makes a modulating chip boiler seem pretty enticing. No storage needed and I can burn wood pellets if I don't feel like dealing with chips. Would definitely want storage for burning cord wood.


How much do the PTO chippers cost? That's an interesting idea. Hydro company here gives away semi loads of wood chips for free. But would be nice to have a backup supply and help clean up waste from knocking down trees with own chipper.

Would probably need to screen the chips before loading aswell.


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## andym (Feb 15, 2020)

I've been trying to find more info on these UNI wood boilers as well. Can anyone post some pics of the burn chamber? Does the manufacturers claim of +83% seem accurate? How does the quality compare to an Eko or similar entry level gasifier?


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## SpaceBus (Feb 15, 2020)

Case1030 said:


> How much do the PTO chippers cost? That's an interesting idea. Hydro company here gives away semi loads of wood chips for free. But would be nice to have a backup supply and help clean up waste from knocking down trees with own chipper.
> 
> Would probably need to screen the chips before loading aswell.


I have a "semi pro" grade Wallenstein BXM42. If you don't need/want a shredder you could get a decent imported machine for a few grand if you have 40+ pto HP. I have many uses for shredded and chipped wood, so it was worth it for me to pay a bit more for a machine that can do both. 

I would assume any chip burner would need screened and at least partially dried chips. The Mbtek duo unit looks like it is fairly robust and could burn anything with the rotary pot with induction fan. The 35/160kbtu duo unit could even hold a decent sized load of wood for batch burns or set up with the chip hopper for times away from home.


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## maple1 (Feb 15, 2020)

andym said:


> I've been trying to find more info on these UNI wood boilers as well. Can anyone post some pics of the burn chamber? Does the manufacturers claim of +83% seem accurate? How does the quality compare to an Eko or similar entry level gasifier?



No, that claim does not seem accurate.


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## andym (Feb 15, 2020)

maple1 said:


> No, that claim does not seem accurate.


It may be possible. Many non-gasser wood stoves are rated for that, albeit they are not boilers. I talked to a Mbtek rep and asked him about test results. He referred me to their client map....he never did give any numbers, just said that 'highest efficency is when burning to storage' or some such. 
The price is tempting tho....


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## SpaceBus (Feb 16, 2020)

Perhaps when these units are run at max output and then loading thermal storage they might be fairly efficient, but even then it's questionable. Owner photos and videos of the real units in use burning cord wood would be helpful as well.


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## maple1 (Feb 16, 2020)

andym said:


> It may be possible. Many non-gasser wood stoves are rated for that, albeit they are not boilers. I talked to a Mbtek rep and asked him about test results. He referred me to their client map....he never did give any numbers, just said that 'highest efficency is when burning to storage' or some such.
> The price is tempting tho....



I'm still saying not possible.

That is in the area of top of the line gassers. Which these most certainly aren't.

The fact your test result question was sidestepped is clear indication. Bogus numbers.


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## Case1030 (Feb 16, 2020)

I found a diagram and pictures of the heat exchangers. The thermal surface to extract heat seems to be adequate, I guess it comes down to how clean they burn? 

Curious without secondary combustion if there is much smoke and creosote produced.


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## andym (Feb 19, 2020)

maple1 said:


> I'm still saying not possible.
> 
> That is in the area of top of the line gassers. Which these most certainly aren't.
> 
> The fact your test result question was sidestepped is clear indication. Bogus numbers.



I decided to email Mbtek on that question. Sent the email at 514 pm. Had a reply at 538. After hours!! Ive attached the pdf test results they sent. Note: the results are for the Uni 35 because I told them I was interested in that one. Hopefully someone on here can tell me/us what kind of testing this was. If these results are reliable, I'm ordering one! 

I also asked if the 35 could be hooked to a 6 inch chimney. They said as long as it's 15 to 20 feet. My new chimney will be 16 to 18, and I've already got some of the 6 inch.

I'm impatiently waiting to hear what the pros on here think of the results.


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## andym (Feb 19, 2020)

Forgot the attachment. Sorry.


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## SpaceBus (Feb 20, 2020)

That's an interesting test document. Seems legit, but then I feel skeptical about the fact that the efficiency is the same from 100- 30% output with cordwood. The unit is designed for pellets, as noted, but then the test procedure says it was hand loaded with birch.


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## Case1030 (Feb 20, 2020)

So for cordwood the UNi actually does have secondary combustion. Both the Eko coal and pellet Duo don't have secondary combustion due to not being primary fuel use. Each model is designed to run optimal on specified fuel is what they told me.


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## SpaceBus (Feb 20, 2020)

TL/DR: I don't mind lower efficiency if the emissions are like an EPA stove. 

I also wish the emissions were rated in terms of g/hr like the EPA uses. So far I haven't found any kind of conversion or means to compare mg/m3 vs g/hr. Likely these units are somewhere between a traditional OWB and a modern indoor gassifier. I bet when used with wood pellets, or coal, the units are quite efficient, maybe even the claimed 89%. With cordwood I bet the efficiency is much lower, but maybe the duo units could come close. With the smaller firebox with a grate relatively close to the secondary combustion area the duo unit might be more like an EPA wood stove. My Serbian wood cookstove with adjustable air wash and bottom fed air, the secondary baffle is always open, burns very clean and gassifies quickly even with a water coil full of cold water. I'm willing to bet I'm losing efficiency with the glass top as well, but the Plume is very clean.


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## SpaceBus (Feb 20, 2020)

Case1030 said:


> So for cordwood the UNi actually does have secondary combustion. Both the Eko coal and pellet Duo don't have secondary combustion due to not being primary fuel use. Each model is designed to run optimal on specified fuel is what they told me.


Where are they made? The Cyrillic script reads "Belkomin", which is weird.


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## andym (Feb 20, 2020)

SpaceBus said:


> Where are they made? The Cyrillic script reads "Belkomin", which is weird.


Poland is what I read somewhere. Doesn't the test result give an address in warsaw? 

If the boiler puts out no visible smoke and flu temps are under 400 it has to be at least 75% efficient, right? I'm really leaning toward purchasing one. 2700 shipped vs 4-5k min for anything else is looking pretty attractive. I could always upgrade in 5 years......

I'm hoping Oscar111 will reply with some more info on his Uni....amount of visible smoke, pics of combustion chamber, etc.....


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## SpaceBus (Feb 20, 2020)

andym said:


> Poland is what I read somewhere. Doesn't the test result give an address in warsaw?
> 
> If the boiler puts out no visible smoke and flu temps are under 400 it has to be at least 75% efficient, right? I'm really leaning toward purchasing one. 2700 shipped vs 4-5k min for anything else is looking pretty attractive. I could always upgrade in 5 years......
> 
> I'm hoping Oscar111 will reply with some more info on his Uni....amount of visible smoke, pics of combustion chamber, etc.....


I was looking for the address, but must have missed it. Even 75% is pretty good, definitely at the price for the 15kw and up models.


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## andym (Feb 20, 2020)

SpaceBus said:


> I was looking for the address, but must have missed it. Even 75% is pretty good, definitely at the price for the 15kw and up models.


I was originally looking at getting a non-epa OWB. Anything would be better than that for efficiency. I stumbled onto the Uni's on Ebay, which led me to all the other indoor boilers. 

I'm considering a GoFundMe page so that I can raise money to install a Uni, Froling,Garn, etc side by side and do extensive testing to compare. If all Hearth members gave 100 dollars I should have plenty!  .....or not!

I'm supposed to be getting a call this eve from someone on Mbteks client map. He has a Uni wood boiler and doesn't live too far away.....hope he enjoys being interrogated!


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## 3fordasho (Feb 20, 2020)

andym said:


> I was originally looking at getting a non-epa OWB. Anything would be better than that for efficiency. I stumbled onto the Uni's on Ebay, which led me to all the other indoor boilers.
> 
> I'm considering a GoFundMe page so that I can raise money to install a Uni, Froling,Garn, etc side by side and do extensive testing to compare. If all Hearth members gave 100 dollars I should have plenty!  .....or not!
> 
> I'm supposed to be getting a call this eve from someone on Mbteks client map. He has a Uni wood boiler and doesn't live too far away.....hope he enjoys being interrogated!




A real gasifier with heat exchanger tubes (ORLAN/EKO), Atmos) can be imported directly from kotly.com for about the same price as these mbtek conventional boilers.   Personally I want someone in the states to call if there is a problem so I purchased my Attack through Zenon at newhorizon.     Kotly will quote with shipping to the states.


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## SpaceBus (Feb 20, 2020)

3fordasho said:


> A real gasifier with heat exchanger tubes (ORLAN/EKO), Atmos) can be imported directly from kotly.com for about the same price as these mbtek conventional boilers.   Personally I want someone in the states to call if there is a problem so I purchased my Attack through Zenon at newhorizon.     Kotly will quote with shipping to the states.


What is freight from Poland like? The Eko units are the same price or less than the Mbtek units and definitely better. I'd rather not message anyone at Kotly to satisfy my curiosity, this is just something I'm investigating for the future.


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## Woodman1 (Feb 20, 2020)

Wow I had no idea you could still get a new eko/Orlan! It would be very interesting to see what the shipping cost to the U.S. would be. If it is not crazy I would waaaaay rather have a proven eko gasser.


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## 3fordasho (Feb 20, 2020)

SpaceBus said:


> What is freight from Poland like? The Eko units are the same price or less than the Mbtek units and definitely better. I'd rather not message anyone at Kotly to satisfy my curiosity, this is just something I'm investigating for the future.



I have a quote from a year ago, an 40kw orlan/EKO was $2600 shipping included.   I found a few people here had sourced from kotly successfully, and also a period of time they were not shipping to the US.  Just use the search function and search for kotly.com


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## andym (Feb 20, 2020)

SpaceBus said:


> What is freight from Poland like? The Eko units are the same price or less than the Mbtek units and definitely better. I'd rather not message anyone at Kotly to satisfy my curiosity, this is just something I'm investigating for the future.


The boilers ship from near Philadelphia, PA. I can have it delivered to my door for 2700.I read a thread on here about kotly.com. My understanding is that it is not quite as straightforward. 

I do realize there is a difference between the Uni and the Eko. Perhaps like comparing John Deere tractors with LS, etc.


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## SpaceBus (Feb 20, 2020)

andym said:


> The boilers ship from near Philadelphia, PA. I can have it delivered to my door for 2700.I read a thread on here about kotly.com. My understanding is that it is not quite as straightforward.
> 
> I do realize there is a difference between the Uni and the Eko. Perhaps like comparing John Deere tractors with LS, etc.


Eh, the EKO is a budget gassifier, so maybe like comparing a new tier 4 diesel truck to an 06 Cummins Ram. The Uni boiler would probably be less maintenance intensive without the cast refractory nozzles. The Uni 35 is definitely an attractive package.


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## 3fordasho (Feb 20, 2020)

SpaceBus said:


> Eh, the EKO is a budget gassifier, so maybe like comparing a new tier 4 diesel truck to an 06 Cummins Ram. The Uni boiler would probably be less maintenance intensive without the cast refractory nozzles. The Uni 35 is definitely an attractive package.



I don't have an EKO or one of  the Mbtek Uni boilers.  There are however literally 100's if not thousands of post here about EKO boiler experiences,  installs, tuning tips, nozzle replacement, etc.   Is there one serious feedback post here about the Mbtek boilers from an actual user?  One that has been around here and provided feedback over a period of use? 

 Color me skeptical until I see more from real users.


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## andym (Feb 20, 2020)

3fordasho said:


> I don't have an EKO or one of  the Mbtek Uni boilers.  There are however literally 100's if not thousands of post here about EKO boiler experiences,  installs, tuning tips, nozzle replacement, etc.   Is there one serious feedback post here about the Mbtek boilers from an actual user?  One that has been around here and provided feedback over a period of use?
> 
> Color me skeptical until I see more from real users.


I understand completely. My conversation with the Mbtek client was good, however he had a coal boiler not wood.  have to try some more. 
There is something inside me that always wants to give the cheapest option a chance to shine. That's why I buy some things at Harbor Freight now and then.


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## maple1 (Feb 21, 2020)

The TIS/Mbtek may very well meet someones needs. But it is not a gasifier. As a result you would need to stay on top of cleaning - those tubes will cake up fairly quickly in a dirty burner, and there goes your efficiency. Even a gasser benefits from weekly brushings, and that is only fly ash not creosote. And you would burn more wood than with a gasifier. Whether that is significant or not, would be up to the user.

No comment on the 'test sheet'. I do not understand it. But it does look kind of weird - the header of the pages looks different resolution than the main body. Like some sort of cut & paste photoshop job. I still maintain the efficiency number is inaccurate & misleading, somehow. If it was in the 70's it might be more realistic, I feel - even then may be a stretch.


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## maple1 (Feb 21, 2020)

SpaceBus said:


> Eh, the EKO is a budget gassifier, so maybe like comparing a new tier 4 diesel truck to an 06 Cummins Ram. The Uni boiler would probably be less maintenance intensive without the cast refractory nozzles. The Uni 35 is definitely an attractive package.



It would be more maintenance intensive, IMO. Much more cleaning/tube brushing required. Of the boiler, and the whole chimney system. I haven't cleaned my chimney at all in 7.5 years.


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## SpaceBus (Feb 21, 2020)

3fordasho said:


> I don't have an EKO or one of  the Mbtek Uni boilers.  There are however literally 100's if not thousands of post here about EKO boiler experiences,  installs, tuning tips, nozzle replacement, etc.   Is there one serious feedback post here about the Mbtek boilers from an actual user?  One that has been around here and provided feedback over a period of use?
> 
> Color me skeptical until I see more from real users.


Agreed, I am quite skeptical.


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## andym (Feb 21, 2020)

maple1 said:


> It would be more maintenance intensive, IMO. Much more cleaning/tube brushing required. Of the boiler, and the whole chimney system. I haven't cleaned my chimney at all in 7.5 years.


The cleaning of the heat exchanger is in fact the biggest hold up for me. Access is really nice, similar to Varms. However with no turbulators it will need to be done one at a time and then only when not burning. 
I'm convinced the boiler would suit my needs. BUT I do know that after my checkbook recovers I will ask myself: "why didn't I buy a lambda controlled boiler?" My checkook will reply, "because your a tight wad, and and a sucker for cheap things."
I'm holding off on the final decision until I can talk with someone who runs a Uni boiler. I'm leaning heavily toward the Attack tho.


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## 3fordasho (Feb 21, 2020)

andym said:


> The cleaning of the heat exchanger is in fact the biggest hold up for me. Access is really nice, similar to Varms. However with no turbulators it will need to be done one at a time and then only when not burning.
> I'm convinced the boiler would suit my needs. BUT I do know that after my checkbook recovers I will ask myself: "why didn't I buy a lambda controlled boiler?" My checkook will reply, "because your a tight wad, and and a sucker for cheap things."
> I'm holding off on the final decision until I can talk with someone who runs a Uni boiler. I'm leaning heavily toward the Attack tho.



What I have found so far in regards to cleaning the Attack - The factory provided cleaning set up is a lever mechanism that moves the turbulators up and down in the exchanger tubes.  I do this before every burn, takes about 5 seconds and nothing needs to be disassembled, just grab the lever and move up/down 4-6 times.  Now a brush run thru the tubes would get them cleaner and I have done that once this season.  I keep an eye on exhaust temps and so far they stay pretty consistent and they did not drop much when I did the brush cleaning.  If they start to creep up during burns that is an indicator that a better cleaning could be required.  So far it does not appear there would be a big efficiency advantage to brush cleaning the tubes more often.   The Varms are by far the simplest to brush clean the tubes.  

 If I thought there was a big advantage to brushing the tubes on the Attack more frequently I would modify the lever mechanism to make it easier to remove the turbulators - as it is with the factory set up it's about a 30 minute job because the part of the lever mechanism must be removed to get the turbulators out.   Others have done something similar with EKO boilers as a lot of the Euro boilers have a similar set up.   I will agree with @maple1 on the chimney cleaning,  once the gases have gone through the nozzle, there is nothing but light fly ash and chimney cleanings are really not necessary or can be done much less often.  (assuming of course you are not trying to stuff a bunch of green wood through it and not gasifying)

Thoughts on wood moisture content.  In a forced/induced draft gasifier with storage the boiler is running wide open.  IMHO wood dryness is even more important on a non-gasifier be it a boiler with no storage or EPA woodstove or furnace because these are usually run with the inlet air restricted.  Now I'm not saying you should run green wood through a gasifier, but I bet it would be more tolerant if there is a piece or two of not optimally seasoned wood in the mix.


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## andym (Feb 21, 2020)

3fordasho said:


> What I have found so far in regards to cleaning the Attack - The factory provided cleaning set up is a lever mechanism that moves the turbulators up and down in the exchanger tubes.  I do this before every burn, takes about 5 seconds and nothing needs to be disassembled, just grab the lever and move up/down 4-6 times.  Now a brush run thru the tubes would get them cleaner and I have done that once this season.  I keep an eye on exhaust temps and so far they stay pretty consistent and they did not drop much when I did the brush cleaning.  If they start to creep up during burns that is an indicator that a better cleaning could be required.  So far it does not appear there would be a big efficiency advantage to brush cleaning the tubes more often.   The Varms are by far the simplest to brush clean the tubes.
> 
> If I thought there was a big advantage to brushing the tubes on the Attack more frequently I would modify the lever mechanism to make it easier to remove the turbulators - as it is with the factory set up it's about a 30 minute job because the part of the lever mechanism must be removed to get the turbulators out.   Others have done something similar with EKO boilers as a lot of the Euro boilers have a similar set up.   I will agree with @maple1 on the chimney cleaning,  once the gases have gone through the nozzle, there is nothing but light fly ash and chimney cleanings are really not necessary or can be done much less often.  (assuming of course you are not trying to stuff a bunch of green wood through it and not gasifying)
> 
> Thoughts on wood moisture content.  In a forced/induced draft gasifier with storage the boiler is running wide open.  IMHO wood dryness is even more important on a non-gasifier be it a boiler with no storage or EPA woodstove or furnace because these are usually run with the inlet air restricted.  Now I'm not saying you should run green wood through a gasifier, but I bet it would be more tolerant if there is a piece or two of not optimally seasoned wood in the mix.


I only burn dry wood anyway. Finally got a moisture meter and tested some pieces that were stacked next to the stove for two weeks: 7-12%. I expected more like 20%. Haven't checked the stuff in the woodshed. This is probably why I've never had to clean my chimney either. Very dry wood and fairly high flu temps = no condensation = no creosote = no cleaning. I checked my exterior masonry chimney last fall after burning for two years. There was literally no point in running the sweep down it. Prior to this house I ran the same stove 5 seasons on a SS chimney and never cleaned it once.


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## SpaceBus (Feb 21, 2020)

Are the attack boilers still available? What's the deal with the 2020 EPA regs and new wood hydronic units?


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## andym (Feb 21, 2020)

SpaceBus said:


> Are the attack boilers still available? What's the deal with the 2020 EPA regs and new wood hydronic units?


Newhorizonstore still has them. I'm not sure if they are certified.


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## 3fordasho (Feb 21, 2020)

SpaceBus said:


> Are the attack boilers still available? What's the deal with the 2020 EPA regs and new wood hydronic units?



I just bought a 2nd in December, working on installation for my shop now.

 New 2020 EPA regulations go into effect May or June IIRC.  I guess you better have one with the EPA cert if installed after that date and you have a local enforcement agency that looks at such things, or if you have a neighbor that will complain about your wood burning and then you better have ducks in a row and will probably still have a hassle.

In my case I need binoculars to see my nearest neighbor and no one cares if I install a clean wood burner. In fact no one locally knows I even have it.  Now a old smoke dragon OWB that I stuff full of green logs everyday - eh I might be able to get away with that too but I don't want to put up with that myself.

You will notice that some of the euro gasifiers are listed as "commercial use", like the EKO's at newhorizonstore.com.  That doesn't mean they are not very clean burners, it just means the manufacturer or importer has not elected to spend the $$$ and jump through the hoops the EPA is requiring to get the cert.

My Attack was not listed as "commercial use" but also is not on the 2020 EPA list.

You can bet the mbtek TIS Uni boilers will not be on the 2020 EPA approved list either.

I know this is not a real answer, but it has been asked here several times and I have not seen a real legal type answer yet.


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## andym (Feb 21, 2020)

3fordasho said:


> I just bought a 2nd in December, working on installation for my shop now.
> 
> New 2020 EPA regulations go into effect May or June IIRC.  I guess you better have one with the EPA cert if installed after that date and you have a local enforcement agency that looks at such things, or if you have a neighbor that will complain about your wood burning and then you better have ducks in a row and will probably still have a hassle.
> 
> ...


My understanding as well. No one will complain about me, at least not until the epa gets rid of that smoke dragon half mile west of me. I don't need binoculars to tell when he loads it up.....

3fordasho: really like your YouTube videos of your setup.


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## SpaceBus (Feb 21, 2020)

3fordasho said:


> I just bought a 2nd in December, working on installation for my shop now.
> 
> New 2020 EPA regulations go into effect May or June IIRC.  I guess you better have one with the EPA cert if installed after that date and you have a local enforcement agency that looks at such things, or if you have a neighbor that will complain about your wood burning and then you better have ducks in a row and will probably still have a hassle.
> 
> ...


As long as the units remain available I'm not concerned if the EPA likes them or not. A UL listing is also a big benefit. My cookstove isn't EPA approved, but is rated highly on the European system. It's all relative


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## Highbeam (Feb 22, 2020)

andym said:


> My understanding as well. No one will complain about me, at least not until the epa gets rid of that smoke dragon half mile west of me. I don't need binoculars to tell when he loads it up.....
> 
> 3fordasho: really like your YouTube videos of your setup.



that smoke dragon neighbor makes all wood burners look bad. What you need to worry about is whether the rule or method used to get rid of him is so broad that they stop you from burning wood too. Regulators are not that smart and are usually not wood burners themselves.


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## Case1030 (Feb 22, 2020)

Highbeam said:


> that smoke dragon neighbor makes all wood burners look bad. What you need to worry about is whether the rule or method used to get rid of him is so broad that they stop you from burning wood too. Regulators are not that smart and are usually not wood burners themselves.



Yes very true, one ruins it for many.


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## andym (Feb 25, 2020)

I finally talked to someone who owns a Uni 35. He's on his second season with it. He really likes it and says it seems very efficient. He said he would buy another.

However, when asked if it smokes any he replied that it definitely does produce visible smoke while burning. He claimed that he's only burning dry wood. The woodstove in his house does not smoke. He says he has brown icicles on his roof! 
The heat exchanger does soot up but he only brushes it every couple weeks. 
Currently he's only got 50 gallons of storage in addition to 1200 sqft of radiant concrete. With a super tight ICF construction, his lack of storage would definitely make for extra idling/smoking. It is probably always modulated to 50%. Oh, and he has it set at 70° C. Isn't that around 150 F?
There is some smoke spillage while reloading, but not excessive.

Construction is sturdy. He said he can put his hand against the side of it while it is running, so good insulation. 

Everything he said about it could have been said of any indoor boiler except for the smoking part. I'm guessing most Uni's would not smoke that much, but if this one does......

I'm pretty much convinced that what I really want is an Attack lambda 35.


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