# What should I do? Overfire w/ air control on low.



## WildOlive (Jan 4, 2012)

I'm still very much a novice woodburner. We've had our stove (Alderlea T-5) for about 2 months. This morning I put in a big hunk of (split) wood and a smaller split. Once it was up to around 500 I cut the air control down halfway. After 5 minutes the temp was still climbing, so I cut the air all the way down. The temp still climbed. It was up to 800 and I couldn't cut the air off any more than it already was. I have noticed that our stove lights much better when the door is closed, so I opened the door wide to let some heat out, and was able to get the temp back down to 600. As soon as I shut the door the temp started climbing again. Lather, rinse, repeat. 

So my questions are:

1. What could I have done to avoid this?
2. What should I do if this happens again? Was it ok to open the door?


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## EatenByLimestone (Jan 4, 2012)

To avoid this in the future you can start cutting the air down sooner.  Less wood may help also.   

When I've had a run away stove I've never opened the door, but if that works...   I would personally worry about sparks jumping out into the room.  

I have had luck doing everything I can to remove heat from the outside of the stove.  This meant pots of water (never pour water on it!) set on top to draw heat and every fan I could muster blowing over the surface.  The pots of water might not be as effective since your stove is steel and skinned with cast iron.  

Matt


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## cptoneleg (Jan 4, 2012)

You must have some very dry wood what are you burning??  You put in a big hunk of what??


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## logger (Jan 4, 2012)

I keep a pail of ashes on the back porch so if this were to happen to me I could dump some ashes on the fire to help smolder it.


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## certified106 (Jan 4, 2012)

It makes no sense to me how One big hunk of wood and a little split can take off like that. There has to be more to this story can you provide stove top temps when you loaded the wood in, what the coal bed looked like, and what the fire looked like was it a blazing inferno or did it look like a normal fire with typical secondaries? Did you empty ashes recently and use the ash dump?


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## BrotherBart (Jan 4, 2012)

And additionally please describe the chimney setup.


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## oldspark (Jan 4, 2012)

The wood was wet (soaked in gasoline).


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## certified106 (Jan 4, 2012)

oldspark said:
			
		

> The wood was wet (soaked in gasoline).


LOL.... I almost spit my coffee on the computer  :lol:


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## WildOlive (Jan 4, 2012)

Unfortunately I don't know the type of wood. It's a mix and I'm pretty bad at identifying it when the leaves are off.  :red: It was a really heavy piece with a twisted grain.

The chimney is double wall stainless that goes out the wall of the house and up 16 ft.

I think the ash dump question is right on, though. I had just woken up and before adding the wood I did rake the coals back and use the ash dump, and I'm thinking there may be a small piece of a coal in the way keeping it open a crack, because as the day has progressed I have noticed a pit forming over the ash dump chute and that has never happened before. I'm in the process of letting it die down so I can check it out.


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## begreen (Jan 4, 2012)

The ash dump is a good first suspect. I don't use ours now and have it filled with ash. Another possibility is that the wood was added to a too hot coal bed? Maybe burn it down a bit further before refueling. Rake the coals forward and open up the air all the way and put a single 2" split on the hot coals. After about 30 minutes they should be burnt down enough. 

This is a case where the blower really helps. It will cool down the stovetop by 100-150F pretty quickly in spite of a big fire in the stove.


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## WildOlive (Jan 4, 2012)

That is interesting, I had not realized the coal bed could be too hot. Although, the stove had not been filled since the night before, about 9 hours had elapsed. 
We do have the blower, I am sure glad now that we do!


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## pen (Jan 4, 2012)

WildOlive said:
			
		

> That is interesting, I had not realized the coal bed could be too hot. Although, the stove had not been filled since the night before, about 9 hours had elapsed.
> We do have the blower, I am sure glad now that we do!



I loaded on too large a bed of coals this morning as a result of loading it before bed later than normal since I've been trying to stuff a lot of wood through being cold.  I wound up having the IR thermometer show me 876 on the stove top because of it  :shut: 

It happens, but I try not to let it.  

pen


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## southbalto (Jan 4, 2012)

If you can access the air intake you can shove some aluminium in there to restrict the air.....obv not the solution to your prob.  Just in case you need to quickly supress the fire.


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## IPLUMB (Jan 4, 2012)

I have wondered if...... Having a GREEN piece of fresh cut wood to throw in there would tame it? Anybody ever tried? Something real wet like Box Elder.


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## oldspark (Jan 5, 2012)

IPLUMB said:
			
		

> I have wondered if...... Having a GREEN piece of fresh cut wood to throw in there would tame it? Anybody ever tried? Something real wet like Box Elder.


 Yep its been mentioned before and works like a champ I guess.


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## Hass (Jan 5, 2012)

oldspark said:
			
		

> IPLUMB said:
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> 
> 
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Yep, it's been said quite often


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## Jacklake2003 (Jan 5, 2012)

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/87637/

Check out the thread linked above that I started this morning.


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## wkpoor (Jan 5, 2012)

Measured where? Maybe it wasn't stove top temps.


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## HotCoals (Jan 5, 2012)

WildOlive said:
			
		

> That is interesting, I had not realized the coal bed could be too hot. Although, the stove had not been filled since the night before, about 9 hours had elapsed.
> We do have the blower, I am sure glad now that we do!


The blowers will cool the stove top gauge down pretty quick..that's about it.
Won't change the fire..
Some have good luck opening the stove door..you are putting a ton of cooler room air into the stove and pushing the really hot air out.
It can slow the draft considerably...thus the fire can die down.
A screen for this purpose would be nice.

All else fails have a big fire extinguisher around..screw the stove and what it might do to it...and if you don't have a screen you could put a carpet fire out with it at the very least.

BTW..that trick of plugging the secondary air with tin foil or whatever is a good idea on a runaway imo.


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## jdonna (Jan 5, 2012)

When my oakwood would run away, which was pretty much a habitual event, I would plug the secondary inlets partially to fully.  Also, I have good strong draft on my chimneys so I have turn key dampers in my flue to regulate those oh crap situations, very nice to have in those situations.


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## pen (Jan 5, 2012)

HotCoals said:
			
		

> WildOlive said:
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Great point!  I often wonder hot hot the chimney gasses are for some folks running inserts where getting a "stove top" reading isn't easy and they have a blower going.

This morning when the stove took off I was at 876 stove top temps and the chimney temps were right at what I'd consider to be the redline for my setup.  I don't have a blower but often wonder how much harder I'd be fooled into running the stove if I had one.  Just because the blower is pulling heat away from the top, doesn't mean that the rest of the stove isn't really cooking.  

BTW, temps like I mentioned are a once or twice a year accident in cold weather.  Please don't think they are normal.  

pen


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## HotCoals (Jan 5, 2012)

Pen,
I can tell you I never use my blowers on my stove..maybe just to help heat the house up if we were gone for a few days.
My stove is at one end of the house and I do have really good natural circulation.
The main floor is 1400sf..second floor(bed rooms)1100sf.
Those they have larger single story house with long halls could be a prob..it's nice to have a good size part of your house on the second story where heat rises too.

BTW..the wife swears by the ceiling fan..me no so much...lol...but I tolerate it when she wants it on.
876 is getting up there..I puckered some at 750 the other night!


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## BrotherBart (Jan 5, 2012)

pen said:
			
		

> This morning when the stove took off I was at 876 stove top temps and the chimney temps were right at what I'd consider to be the redline for my setup.  I don't have a blower but often wonder how much harder I'd be fooled into running the stove if I had one.  Just because the blower is pulling heat away from the top, doesn't mean that the rest of the stove isn't really cooking.



I can name that tune in three notes. I haven't turned on the blower on the 30-NC in two years. Tonight it was cruising just between 650 and 700 an hour after reload. Turned that blower on half speed and the stove top temp dropped to 400 in almost a heartbeat.

And this joint is really warm now and the burn hasn't changed. Should have done that last night when we got down to 14. I was PO'ed when I woke up and it was just 68 upstairs.  >:-(


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## HotCoals (Jan 5, 2012)

_I can name that tune in three notes. I haven't turned on the blower on the 30-NC in two years. Tonight it was cruising just between 650 and 700 an hour after reload. Turned that blower on half speed and the stove top temp dropped to 400 in almost a heartbeat.

And this joint is really warm now and the burn hasn't changed. Should have done that last night when we got down to 14. I was PO'ed when I woke up and it was just 68 upstairs.  >:-([/quote]_
I have to ask Bart,

Did your stove top temp really drop that much or just your gauge?
Blowing cooler room air will drop a gauge fast..not so much stove top.
I played around with my twin blow's ..that blow pretty hard and my stove top temp really doesn't drop per IR temp gun  ..gauge did.
It did drop a little after awhile..but my fire was settling down then anyways.
Your stove could be diff.


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## BrotherBart (Jan 5, 2012)

HotCoals said:
			
		

> Did your stove top temp really drop that much or just your gauge?
> Blowing cooler room air will drop a gauge fast..not so much stove top.
> I played around with my twin blow's ..that blow pretty hard and my stove top temp really doesn't drop per IR temp gun  ..gauge did.
> It did drop a little after awhile..but my fire was settling down then anyways.
> Your stove could be diff.



Thermo is on the step below the air path. And anyway the IR gun said the same thing.

Dropped like a rock. I have a thermo on the side of the firebox to give me real firebox temp. It has been steady at 525 the whole time.


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## good news tuna (Jan 5, 2012)

I had the same problem, read this thread

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/86103/


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## Proud Sub Vet (Dec 9, 2013)

logger said:


> I keep a pail of ashes on the back porch so if this were to happen to me I could dump some ashes on the fire to help smolder it.


 Wow - that's why you're the minister of fire - excellent idea about the 'pail of ashes' thing!!


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## Proud Sub Vet (Dec 9, 2013)

certified106 said:


> LOL.... I almost spit my coffee on the computer  :lol:


 I DID SPIT MY COFFEE ON THE COMPUTER!


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## mfetcho (Dec 9, 2013)

I'm not sure about too much coal after 9 hours.  Play with shutting your stove down sooner.  I have the T6 and haven't used my ash chute yet and I don't plan to.  I think it is hoky.  I have been burning since October and I have only scooped out ash once!  Shut your stove down at 400 and see what it does.


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## Charles1981 (Dec 10, 2013)

I think the ash pan leaking is a good possibility.

On my stove any leak in the ash pan would lead to a massive over fire. I have had the ash pan and door open before and the bellows effect is not created very significantly. But leave the ash pan door open and then close the front doors and WOOOSH the fire takes off.  That could explain why the stove actually cooled down with the door open, and why you stove is taking off like that with the front door closed.

I would set off some incense or use a flame and look for leaks around the ash pan. (Can you HEAR the fire roaring?)


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## loon (Dec 10, 2013)

I have the T5 and i know 'Messing" around with a stove isnt for everyone..But i found out after buying it that the air when fully closed left quite a large gap?
Ended up grabbing the Dremal and made a groove to have it shut pretty much tight which works great for dropping the flames down quick.

You will need a mirror and a cool stove and it isnt all that hard to do.

After reading here on the board last year i have never used the ash dump just for the reasons said on your  thread  plus its quicker just to use a large steel shovel 

loon


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## Beer Belly (Dec 10, 2013)

oldspark said:


> Yep its been mentioned before and works like a champ I guess.


 I got this one covered


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## DanCorcoran (Dec 10, 2013)

"Thermo is on the step below the air path. And anyway the IR gun said the same thing.

Dropped like a rock. I have a thermo on the side of the firebox to give me real firebox temp. It has been steady at 525 the whole time."


I agree.  My blower is mounted at the bottom rear of stove, blowing air upwards inside the rear heat shield.  It causes the stovetop reading, in front of flue collar, to drop quickly.  I use the blower more as a safety valve than I do for heating the room (which is to say, i seldom use it).


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## Nocattom (Dec 10, 2013)

WildOlive said:


> I'm still very much a novice woodburner. We've had our stove (Alderlea T-5) for about 2 months. This morning I put in a big hunk of (split) wood and a smaller split. Once it was up to around 500 I cut the air control down halfway. After 5 minutes the temp was still climbing, so I cut the air all the way down. The temp still climbed. It was up to 800 and I couldn't cut the air off any more than it already was. I have noticed that our stove lights much better when the door is closed, so I opened the door wide to let some heat out, and was able to get the temp back down to 600. As soon as I shut the door the temp started climbing again. Lather, rinse, repeat.
> 
> So my questions are:
> 
> ...


Hay wild one, ya ash door is a joke, dont use it. The T5 is a great stove though. Let her run a full cycle, that is from start-up to coal down. That for me is around 8 to 11 hours. I don't reload until with the coals raked forward, the air control lever opened up half way to get all the heat out of them (this is only right before reloading,last half hour or so)and the IR gun reading on the cook top in the 250f to 300f rang. 

I have noticed I get allot more control of the stove with a full load. I believe this to be simply because there is less air in a stove that is full. Use large,med and small splits. To many smalls can be a problem.   

I used to many small splits and she was at 750f fast. Used a flat fridge magnet and placed it were loon shows his mod in his pic to slow down the primary air. The stove dose peak in the 700eds some times before a good cruise.  

I think you did a great job for the situation you had (probably the ash door?) 

get yer wood on!


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## eclecticcottage (Dec 10, 2013)

This thread has brought up some interesting thoughts for me...

So...is an overfire the heat inside the stove, or on the top?  With the concern about cooling the top temps it seems like it's focused on the top (run the blower, etc), but what is an overfire effecting?  It's really about the whole stove, right?

We run our blower pretty much all the time.  Our set up isn't condusive to floor fans (narrow hallway/doorways) and the blower helps move the air down the hall into the kitchen/dining room.  So our top temps might stay lower because it's running.  I've got the thermo set in the middle but back a little-if you look at the Republic it's got a "second" top stepped back from the front.  The blower blows air out of the two sides but not the middle (where the flue is) so the thermo is set so not as much air can blow on it.

Last night it pegged at 800 with the blower on.  No glowing at all.  DH was concerned.  We tried opening the door.  It did break the secondaries some, but it also created an even better draft (it was a bit windy and that always makes for a really good draft) and started sucking embers up the pipe.  Close the door, it stops.  Open the door again, and it's sucking them up.  Ok.  Not working.  So we stuffed aluminum foil in the air intakes and it slowed down.  It never did have even the faintest glow. 

But...with the blower running...could the inside have been in an overfire state?  Or is it really just a top temp issue?

Things that make you go hmm...


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## bag of hammers (Dec 10, 2013)

Something that may (or may not) be interesting to those of us with pedestal stoves.  I believe (fyrebug if you're around please sanity check this ) that the Osburn 1800 and 2200 stoves pull all their air from under the pedestal.  There is a round opening @4' in the back of the pedestal - unless there's an OAK connected to this, it just draws in room air.  An OAK can feed through the floor in which case this round pedestal opening would just be blocked off (there is a round metal plate in the OAK kit to cover this hole, it's fastened on with a couple small sheet metal screws).

I don't have the OAK connected yet, so this opening is still there, pulling air for the stove.  If there's a need to kill the fire, maybe just having a small piece of sheet / plate metal or durock or something like that would do the trick - quickly prop it up against the pedestal over the hole and there's nowhere for the stove to draw..? 

Of course, if the stove gets tube air from another opening then this theory is crap.  I'm honestly not sure.....


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## eclecticcottage (Dec 10, 2013)

Ours also seems to pull from under the stove, via a rectangular opening about half way back.  Stuffing some aluminum foil in there last night seemed to slow the burn a bit, although I kind of thought it would react faster than it did.   I imagine most stoves are in this place, which is where an OAK would be hooked up if you had one.  If you DO have an OAK, you're probably going to have an easier time blocking the air if it's easily accessible outside.


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