# Quadrafire Santa Fe sticky trap door



## Geezer (Mar 16, 2013)

Hi, I wound up spending some money and bought a Quadrafire. Overall I'm happy with it, the problem is opening the trap door in the burnpot. Now I did my research, I scrape the heck out of it, I put on a light coat of pam, even bought a mechanics sticker scraper.This stove is only a couple months old, is there something I'm missing? And thanks!


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## Countryboymo (Mar 16, 2013)

*If the pellets are not very high quality with a low to medium burn I have had buildup issues.  I have also had issues with the burn pot not getting dumped often enough when I am not around to do it which contributes.  If I dump it daily I have no issues but if it runs till it runs out of pellets and then gets restarted and the process continues it will lock it up.  I also open it and close it 4-5 times which helps keep any build up shaved off and decreased the amount of clearance between the plate and the pot.  Someone made some metal plates that sit on top of the dump so when they dumped the ashes the plate would fall also and any buildup would stick to the plate.  They would add a clean one and fire it back up and it works well for burning junk pellets.  *

*So many variables can contribute to this but it is usually not hard to find a solution to prevent it.  A dirty stove or venting configuration could contribute also to one being more prone to buildup.  *


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## moey (Mar 16, 2013)

Sounds like buildup on the bottom of your pot. Put your head in and see where it is sticking, I suspect you will see some black crud on the trap door right where it starts to get sticky.


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## DexterDay (Mar 17, 2013)

moey said:


> Sounds like buildup on the bottom of your pot. Put your head in and see where it is sticking, I suspect you will see some black crud on the trap door right where it starts to get sticky.



Yep... 

Scrape the bottom. Keep it clean and it will be easier


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## vakory (Mar 17, 2013)

I can concur with a sticky trap door as well, Geezer.  As soon as I cleaned the bottom of the pot, the cleaning rod became much easier for me to work in and out.


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## Geezer (Mar 17, 2013)

Thanks guys, seems like it's scrape the heck out of it. But so you know, I clean and scrape every day, for the first month I had no problem at all.Now the rod is really hard to pull out, and has to be tapped back in, even after scraping. Quadrafire might want to suggest a solvent for this problem. I spend more time getting the plate free than the rest of the maintenance combined.


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## vakory (Mar 17, 2013)

Yeah, ironically enough, Geezer, I just spent about 20 minutes working with the door on my burn pot.  I had to get up to deal with a server issue anyway (I work in IT remotely out of the house which is one of the big reasons why we bought the insert; so I can stay warm in the basement!).  Insomnia set in so I figured I might as well try to get the door loose.  Sure enough, once I got the built-up carbon away from it using a small putty knife, the door opened freely.  While I was at it, I figured I should clean out the ash too.  I'll probably check the pot out every few days to make sure it stays that way.  But I'm learning!

If you're still having a hard time, it might be an idea to unplug the stove, take a flashlight to the pot and stick your head in (seriously!  although I don't recommend if it's still hot!) as you'll probably see a bit of carbon build-up which may pinpoint the stickiness.  Work at it a bit with, perhaps, the pot tool that came with the stove and it'll free up, allowing you to work with the rod.  Trust me; it worked for me.  For you, since you work at it every day, it might be an issue of carbon sticking somewhere you can't see, of course.  Might it possibly be an issue with the type of pellet you're using?  I'm finding the Turmans I use burn very fine which may be causing the build-up for me.  Granted, I've been running my stove a lot for the "newness" of it.

Hope this helps some!


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## moey (Mar 17, 2013)

I use a 1/4 chisel the buildup varies depending on the pellet. Some pellets I get no buildup, some I have to scrap more often. When I do have buildup I have to put my head in and look where its at most the time it does not take much to create a hard pulling lever.


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## Geezer (Mar 17, 2013)

My guess is that it's a combination of factors, poor pellets being one of them. The pam is helping some, I use it sparingly. Countryboy suggested something I'm going to try.Heavy steel plates that dump when you pull the rod. I don't see how that couldn't work. Just have to figure what plate thickness would be best.


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## vakory (Mar 17, 2013)

Geezer said:


> My guess is that it's a combination of factors, poor pellets being one of them. The pam is helping some, I use it sparingly. Countryboy suggested something I'm going to try.Heavy steel plates that dump when you pull the rod. I don't see how that couldn't work. Just have to figure what plate thickness would be best.


 
Sounds like a plan. If I recall, there are four small air holes close to the bottom of the pot (not the larger holes on the sides). The steel plate should be okay so long as it isn't so thick that it could block those holes. My stove's running now so I can't confirm but I'm pretty sure I saw those four holes. If it works, let us know how it goes!

Something else I'm going to try is to follow others' advice about running the stove on "medium" during the day and on "high" at night when I drop the t-stat temp a bit.  From what I recall, running on "high" works well for reducing carbon deposits and, ultimately, build-up on the bottom of the pot and in the heat exchange tubes.  Of course, anyone's more than welcome to correct me if I read that incorrectly.


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## wwert (Mar 17, 2013)

There is a nut on the spring loaded mechanism under the burn pot. Loosen it slightly.


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## DexterDay (Mar 17, 2013)

vakory said:


> Sounds like a plan. If I recall, there are four small air holes close to the bottom of the pot (not the larger holes on the sides). The steel plate should be okay so long as it isn't so thick that it could block those holes. My stove's running now so I can't confirm but I'm pretty sure I saw those four holes. If it works, let us know how it goes!
> 
> Something else I'm going to try is to follow others' advice about running the stove on "medium" during the day and on "high" at night when I drop the t-stat temp a bit.  From what I recall, running on "high" works well for reducing carbon deposits and, ultimately, build-up on the bottom of the pot and in the heat exchange tubes.  Of course, anyone's more than welcome to correct me if I read that incorrectly.



There are 4 small holes on the front bottom and back bottom. For a total of 8 holes level with the pot. 9 if you count the igjitor hole 

These are in addition to the holes in the "Ramp" and on the sides.


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## vakory (Mar 17, 2013)

DexterDay said:


> There are 4 small holes on the front bottom and back bottom. For a total of 8 holes level with the pot. 9 if you count the igjitor hole
> 
> These are in addition to the holes in the "Ramp" and on the sides.


 
Ah, ha, thank you, DexterDay!  My head wasn't big enough (contrary to popular belief) to see the rest of the holes.  I appreciate the correction!


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## Don2222 (Mar 17, 2013)

Hello
If you spend a little more money and get a Selkirk DT pellet vent system that heats and dries out the burn air, then you will not get that caked ash in the burn pot.


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## DexterDay (Mar 17, 2013)

Don, Carbon and caked ash are 2 different things. If you get caked ash in a Quad, you have an air leak. Ash should be expelled. At least mine expells all ash. 

Carbon wont be stopped by using DT. IMO. 

There have been members who made a plate, the same size as the bottom floor plate (cant be to thick 1/8"-3/16" max)  and you just set it in the bottom. When you pull the rod, the top plate drops into the ash pan and can be easily scraped outside, then drop back into pot and do again in a few days/week. 

This keeps the actual pot floor untouched from carbon all together. Cheap,simple, and easy to clean.


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## Don2222 (Mar 17, 2013)

DexterDay said:


> Don, Carbon and caked ash are 2 different things. If you get caked ash in a Quad, you have an air leak. Ash should be expelled. At least mine expells all ash.
> 
> Carbon wont be stopped by using DT. IMO.
> 
> ...


 
I agree that carbon and caked ash are very different. I do get a little caked ash in the Sante Fe's fire pot in the shed that did stop it from starting once. No Oak on it either. Therefore the garage Santa Fe is getting the Selkirk DT and I will see if there much difference. You do get more carbon if there is not enough dry burn air though. IMO


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## Countryboymo (Mar 17, 2013)

I am going to make a few door plates before next season for my stove.  I got a good deal on pellets for next year that tend to carbon up the bottom plate but for 145 a ton I am gonna deal with it.  I will have to search but I think just putting a fender washer in there gave the crud something to stick to but it was not quite as effective as the thin plate that covers the exposed area of the trap door.


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## Don2222 (Mar 17, 2013)

Countryboymo said:


> I am going to make a few door plates before next season for my stove. I got a good deal on pellets for next year that tend to carbon up the bottom plate but for 145 a ton I am gonna deal with it. I will have to search but I think just putting a fender washer in there gave the crud something to stick to but it was not quite as effective as the thin plate that covers the exposed area of the trap door.


 
Try some High Temp Dry Moly Spray. I use that on the fire brick backing sometimes. Nice smooth stuff!


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## tjnamtiw (Mar 18, 2013)

vakory said:


> Sounds like a plan. If I recall, there are four small air holes close to the bottom of the pot (not the larger holes on the sides). The steel plate should be okay so long as it isn't so thick that it could block those holes. My stove's running now so I can't confirm but I'm pretty sure I saw those four holes. If it works, let us know how it goes!
> 
> Something else I'm going to try is to follow others' advice about running the stove on "medium" during the day and on "high" at night when I drop the t-stat temp a bit. From what I recall, running on "high" works well for reducing carbon deposits and, ultimately, build-up on the bottom of the pot and in the heat exchange tubes. Of course, anyone's more than welcome to correct me if I read that incorrectly.


Those little holes on the slanted portion of the burnpot are CRITICAL to a good burn as are the four other ones on the front side of the pot at the bottom. They should be cleaned with a gun bore brush EVERY time you scrape the bottom. It only takes a second.
Also get yourself a cheap 1" wood chisel, stick it straight down into the crud on the bottom and rotate it to break up the buildup. Do that several times plus some scraping and you should be good to go. Finally as mentioned above, loosen up slightly on the nut holding the pivot bolt allowing the dump plate to droop NO MORE than the thickness of a dime on the side opposite the bolt. In this case, less droop is better as long as you can move the dump valve back and forth.

If you go too thin on that removable plate, it may warp up and block those 8 holes so check that while playing.  Let us know what gauge you ended up using, since I've been toying with the idea since I first read it last year but never got around to doing it.


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## DexterDay (Mar 18, 2013)

This is the last yr with the Quad and I am gonna finally make a plate tonight. I have some. 040-.050 material thats pretty hard (1055) and should hold up well. 

Im gonna leave about 1/4" gap around the entire bottom so I dont interfere with the bottom 8 holes. May even make a little notch up front where the ignitor is. 

If it needs a thicker plate, I would make it almost a Tight fit and then grind or make cut outs at the 8 holes and ignitor. So it still breathes well

Been toying with the idea of keeping the Quad. I sold my CPM I had in my Shop. I never hooked the old Englander 25-PDV back up, so I may put the Quad out there.  I may have to actually run it on Med or High then  Seeing how I only use Low now   I was gonna sell it, but after 5 seasons and all the spare parts i have? Its part of the family now


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## Don2222 (Mar 18, 2013)

DexterDay said:


> This is the last yr with the Quad and I am gonna finally make a plate tonight. I have some. 040-.050 material thats pretty hard (1055) and should hold up well.
> 
> Im gonna leave about 1/4" gap around the entire bottom so I dont interfere with the bottom 8 holes. May even make a little notch up front where the ignitor is.
> 
> ...


 
The shop is a real good place for the Quad. With the T-Stat it will not get too hot!

I will be firing up the 2nd Sante Fe in my garage. I am glad it works so well with the T-Stat. If I go out and forget, the garage will not get too hot.

Also trying it with the Selkirk DT, then if I do not get as much caked ash, It will be all set.
I talked to a National Sales manger about pellet stoves. She said the Selkirk DT really sells here in the NE due to all the damp weather we have. It makes sense because not everyone is seeing this dampness problem we do here!


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## tjnamtiw (Mar 18, 2013)

DexterDay said:


> This is the last yr with the Quad and I am gonna finally make a plate tonight. I have some. 040-.050 material thats pretty hard (1055) and should hold up well.
> 
> Im gonna leave about 1/4" gap around the entire bottom so I dont interfere with the bottom 8 holes. May even make a little notch up front where the ignitor is.
> 
> ...


That's a great idea with the notches!  You could even take a file to them and bevel them so they would direct the air up and/or in a swirling pattern!  I have a lot of 18 and 24 gauge steel and also some thicker aluminum.  I have the pattern I made two years ago still hanging in my shop  I might opt for the aluminum and your idea of the slots.


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## DexterDay (Mar 18, 2013)

tjnamtiw said:


> That's a great idea with the notches!  You could even take a file to them and bevel them so they would direct the air up and/or in a swirling pattern!  I have a lot of 18 and 24 gauge steel and also some thicker aluminum.  I have the pattern I made two years ago still hanging in my shop  I might opt for the aluminum and your idea of the slots.



That's the exact idea I had in mind, with the slots... 

I made one, but made it about 1/8" shy from all edges. This gives plenty of room for air and I didnt want to make 3 of them tonight. 

I am going to try it out tomorrow, as i dont want to test right before bed. And because of the Mild weather, I will be using the Quad tonight. But its done and ready for tomorrow when I get home from work  

I finally cleaned the exchange tubes. I haven't had the top baffle plates off, in almost 2 months, or maybe longer. Over a 1/2" of ash on them Definitely gonna be warmer tonight  My ash is almost level with the pot, ash pan is about 8" over full... Its a Quad. They just burn.... and burn....... and burn....

Nothing burns like a Quad


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## vakory (Mar 19, 2013)

DexterDay said:


> That's the exact idea I had in mind, with the slots...
> 
> I made one, but made it about 1/8" shy from all edges. This gives plenty of room for air and I didnt want to make 3 of them tonight.
> 
> ...


 
Thanks much for posting the pics, DexterDay!  I'll have to see about picking up some of the material you suggested and cutting some too.  My wife tried to clean the pot last night and she just couldn't budge the lever (and I've been religiously cleaning it daily but running it hard too).  Doe the big box stores sell that type of metal?  I have a Dremel I could practice on.


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## tjnamtiw (Mar 19, 2013)

If you don't have the metal, an old aluminum pot might 'volunteer' for the job or an old metal tool box. You'd be surprised what might be looking for a new life. I have a big aluminum chassis from some long-forgotten ancient piece of electronics up in the attic calling me now! Aluminum melts at about 1200 F so I think it should be OK. If not, scrape the slag and start again.   Brass or copper could also work and are easier to fashion than steel AND melt at even higher temps.


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## DBCOOPER (Mar 19, 2013)

I find that if I get a build up on the bottom plate if I run it on high for a bit and as soon as it starts to shut down and the pellets are finished burning, I pull the " lever " while it still hot, it will break loose the carbon build up.YMMV.


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## Dinger (Mar 19, 2013)

Have you pulled it all apart for a cleaning? There's a good chance your OEM locknut isn't anymore. The direction the trap moves may encourage the hardware to self tighten. I replaced mine with new hardware and an all metal locknut. I can back it off a tick and it holds adjustment just fine. If I get some buildup I just back it off a little more and pull away. Then just readjust to my liking. I've found you can go too loose and the burn goes to crap, so bear it in mind. As suggested above, a dime or less sag is beauty.


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## vakory (Mar 19, 2013)

tjnamtiw said:


> If you don't have the metal, an old aluminum pot might 'volunteer' for the job or an old metal tool box. You'd be surprised what might be looking for a new life. I have a big aluminum chassis from some long-forgotten ancient piece of electronics up in the attic calling me now! Aluminum melts at about 1200 F so I think it should be OK. If not, scrape the slag and start again.  Brass or copper could also work and are easier to fashion than steel AND melt at even higher temps.


 
Excellent idea, tjnamtiw.  I may have some old toolboxes laying around.  I'll have a looksee and give it a shot!


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## vakory (Mar 19, 2013)

DBCOOPER said:


> I find that if I get a build up on the bottom plate if I run it on high for a bit and as soon as it starts to shut down and the pellets are finished burning, I pull the " lever " while it still hot, it will break loose the carbon build up.YMMV.


Sounds like a possible idea, DBCOOPER, however, my only concern would be dropping hot, spent pellets into the tray.  Isn't that a fire hazard?


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## vakory (Mar 19, 2013)

Dinger said:


> Have you pulled it all apart for a cleaning? There's a good chance your OEM locknut isn't anymore. The direction the trap moves may encourage the hardware to self tighten. I replaced mine with new hardware and an all metal locknut. I can back it off a tick and it holds adjustment just fine. If I get some buildup I just back it off a little more and pull away. Then just readjust to my liking. I've found you can go too loose and the burn goes to crap, so bear it in mind. As suggested above, a dime or less sag is beauty.


Mine's actually brand new, Dinger, having just installed it last Thursday.  However, I can certainly look into replacing the the current OEM locknut with an all metal one.


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## tjnamtiw (Mar 20, 2013)

Neither one of my quads even has a 'lock' nut.  Just a plain nut but an all metal style locknut is great.  Just not a nylock!


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## Jack Morrissey (Mar 20, 2013)

Geezer said:


> Thanks guys, seems like it's scrape the heck out of it. But so you know, I clean and scrape every day, for the first month I had no problem at all.Now the rod is really hard to pull out, and has to be tapped back in, even after scraping. Quadrafire might want to suggest a solvent for this problem. I spend more time getting the plate free than the rest of the maintenance combined.


WD40


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## tjnamtiw (Mar 20, 2013)

Jack Morrissey said:


> WD40


WD40 might loosen it temporarily but it's not a long term solution.  WD40 is fish oil, which will burn off. Better to use a anti-seize product like Never-Seize.  Better yet is to adjust the gap as stated above to allow for some missed buildup.


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## Bioburner (Mar 20, 2013)

When I had a Santa Fe I rubbed in powdered graphite and whenever I cleaned the pot I would give it a squirt of powder and it kept it from having any issues. Graphite is used for rocket nozzles so the temp is no problem. Used  in lubricants and in can be found as a paint. I paint the underside of mower decks to keep grass from sticking. Available powder and paint is usually found at a good farm supply.


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## DBCOOPER (Mar 20, 2013)

vakory said:


> Sounds like a possible idea, DBCOOPER, however, my only concern would be dropping hot, spent pellets into the tray. Isn't that a fire hazard?


 
Once the fire is out the pellets are gone.There may be some clinker material but not a whole lot left to cause a fire hazard.Just wait a few minutes after the fly ash stops.


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## shisits (Mar 20, 2013)

DBCOOPER said:


> Once the fire is out the pellets are gone.There may be some clinker material but not a whole lot left to cause a fire hazard.Just wait a few minutes after the fly ash stops.


 
I do the same as DBCOOPER. Works for me....Problem solved


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## fatotto48 (Mar 20, 2013)

I had made a plate for the bottom of the pot door about 2 years ago, never have to scrap. 1/8 " stainless steel with just a little wiggle room , maybe an 1/16 or1/8th clearance around. The pot has two round holes on either side of the heater slot  that are close to bottom , the plate blocks them very slightly. So had to file plate some to clear holes. You will be one happy camper when installed.


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## Geezer (Mar 24, 2013)

tjnamtiw said:


> If you don't have the metal, an old aluminum pot might 'volunteer' for the job or an old metal tool box. You'd be surprised what might be looking for a new life. I have a big aluminum chassis from some long-forgotten ancient piece of electronics up in the attic calling me now! Aluminum melts at about 1200 F so I think it should be OK. If not, scrape the slag and start again.  Brass or copper could also work and are easier to fashion than steel AND melt at even higher temps.


 




Geezer said:


> My guess is that it's a combination of factors, poor pellets being one of them. The pam is helping some, I use it sparingly. Countryboy suggested something I'm going to try.Heavy steel plates that dump when you pull the rod. I don't see how that couldn't work. Just have to figure what plate thickness would be best.


 

An update on my sticky plate problem, been working smooth as silk the last few days. I used spray canola oil on it, and I believe it coats and seasons the plate, something like a cast iron frying pan. I also loosened the bolt ever so slightly. So far it's been working great, I clean the stove once a day, scrape the plate twice a day. Works like new!


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## vakory (Mar 24, 2013)

Yup, seems to be working better for me here too!  I actually scrape the plate several times a day right before the blower quits which seems to be catching the carbon before it gets too hard to move the lever.  Seems to work very well.  Thanks much for all the advice, y'all!


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## tjnamtiw (Mar 25, 2013)

Geezer said:


> An update on my sticky plate problem, been working smooth as silk the last few days. I used spray canola oil on it, and I believe it coats and seasons the plate, something like a cast iron frying pan. I also loosened the bolt ever so slightly. So far it's been working great, I clean the stove once a day, scrape the plate twice a day. Works like new!


When trying to find a solution to a problem, NEVER EVER change two things at once if you ever want to know what fixed the problem!  Now was it the canola oil (highly doubt) or loosening the bolt (99% sure)????  

In any event, I'm glad you got the problem solved.  Now check to make sure that the trap door is not hanging down with a gap of more than the thickness of a dime.  Any more and you short circuit those 8 little holes too much.


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## Geezer (Mar 25, 2013)

tjnamtiw said:


> When trying to find a solution to a problem, NEVER EVER change two things at once if you ever want to know what fixed the problem! Now was it the canola oil (highly doubt) or loosening the bolt (99% sure)????
> 
> In any event, I'm glad you got the problem solved. Now check to make sure that the trap door is not hanging down with a gap of more than the thickness of a dime. Any more and you short circuit those 8 little holes too much.


 
Thanks tj I'll have to check that gap tomorrow when it's cool. but a question, the bolt was loosened slightly, I can't detect any change in the flame pattern. Is there a danger with damage to the stove by doing so?


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## Jack Morrissey (Mar 26, 2013)

tjnamtiw said:


> WD40 might loosen it temporarily but it's not a long term solution. WD40 is fish oil, which will burn off. Better to use a anti-seize product like Never-Seize. Better yet is to adjust the gap as stated above to allow for some missed buildup.


I believe the anti-seize will burn off too,  I only used the wd40 once or twice and haven't had a problem in two years.


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## DBCOOPER (Mar 26, 2013)

Just curious where the reference that the gap should be no more than the thickness of a dime? I keep mine much tighter, so that its almost dragging when clean.


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## tjnamtiw (Mar 26, 2013)

Jack Morrissey said:


> I believe the anti-seize will burn off too, I only used the wd40 once or twice and haven't had a problem in two years.


The oil carrier for the anti-sieze will, of course, burn off but the copper, graphite, or moly (depends on which you use) will remain behind.  Glad the WD 40 seems to have worked for you.


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## tjnamtiw (Mar 26, 2013)

DBCOOPER said:


> Just curious where the reference that the gap should be no more than the thickness of a dime? I keep mine much tighter, so that its almost dragging when clean.


The thickness of a dime has been quoted here for several years.  While the origin is unknown to me, I believe it came from a tech or factory rep.  Yes, the tighter the better but the caution is to not have MORE than that.  Also over time the nut may loosen and cause the plate to droop, which can be a cause for poor burning, non-ejection of the ash from the burn pot by the vortex of air, and poor heat output so it is always something to have the guy with the problem check.


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## DexterDay (Mar 26, 2013)

tjnamtiw said:


> The thickness of a dime has been quoted here for several years.  While the origin is unknown to me, I believe it came from a tech or factory rep.  Yes, the tighter the better but the caution is to not have MORE than that.  Also over time the nut may loosen and cause the plate to droop, which can be a cause for poor burning, non-ejection of the ash from the burn pot by the vortex of air, and poor heat output so it is always something to have the guy with the problem check.



Yeah. It was a Tech that actually worked for Quad. His Forum name was Kal? Kap? Something like that? 

He hangs at iburncorn more than here (or Iburntcorn, lol)


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## Dinger (Mar 26, 2013)

The dime reference is to the "sag", or lack of, here. I've replaced my hardware with stainless and an all metal locknut, and hand filed my plate and spacer to fit very true. I had the nut loosen a little this winter and it burned noticeably inefficient. It can get a little jammed up at times, but I like the burn with the better fit. If I just loosen the lock a tick, it opens very smoothly. I also like it snug to keep my young'en from being tempted to pull on it while burning. It hasn't happened but I like to rule things out.


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## tjnamtiw (Mar 27, 2013)

DexterDay said:


> Yeah. It was a Tech that actually worked for Quad. His Forum name was Kal? Kap? Something like that?
> 
> He hangs at iburncorn more than here (or Iburntcorn, lol)


Yep, you're right.  It's Kap over at iburncorn.com.  The Quad section is very informative.


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## Kory (Mar 29, 2013)

The factory seems to tighten the "hinge bolt" very tight from factory I would remove the plate and sand or scrape flat like new again, re-install and tighten it with a dime pinched in the opposite side of the plate across from the hinge you don't want it too loose, but you also don't want it so tight that it aggravates you every day


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