# My Englander stove doesn't work right - ever.



## altarr (Jan 2, 2014)

A few years ago, I thought I was making a wise investment buying an Englander "Summers Heat" stove at the big blue box. Worst. Decision. Ever.

The first year, I had it set up in the basement. The stove was a dirty burner from day one. I bought it mid-season and just chalked it up to wonky installation. Onto year 2.

Year 2, I brought the stove upstairs. Same issues. The stove would get its burnpot all clogged up at any setting. The pellets eventually overflow and the stove goes out. Calls to support usually end with me agreeing to clean it again, try new pellets, etc. Cleaning works ok but the problem always comes back.

Year 3. I redid the entire piping of the stove. I eliminated a couple of elbows and the stove now vents straight out of the house, one elbow up, one elbow at the top to the cap. The rise is over 3 feet. Same issues. Mid-year I switch to a new pellet entirely (premium) at the advice of support. Some improvement, but I cannot put the stove above 1 -2 or it will overflow and I get that oily burny smell in the house.

Year 4. I hire someone to clean it for me, figuring I am missing something. I watch intently and notice that he did EVERYTHING I ALREADY DO. Started the year hopeful, but right now its freezing out, my house is 62 and the stove is burning DIRTY AGAIN.

Bottom line, this stove has NEVER worked. (and now way out of warranty) There is something wrong and when you CAN get through to support, they give you a run-around/don't care.

I know this company has fans on this board and I am happy that your stoves work, but I spent THOUSANDS on a hunk of metal just waiting to give my young family either carbon monoxide poisoning or hypothermia. Maybe both.

Does ANYONE out there in TV land have any advice for me on this? The model is a 55-SHPAH. The burnpot will "clump up" with a consistency of brown sugar with the premium pellets and pumice with the cheap ones. The window eventually goes black when the pot fills up. This happens whether the stove is "dirty" or cleaned to within an inch of its life. All the seals etc were checked by the guy who came this summer.


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## MaryH (Jan 2, 2014)

altarr said:


> A few years ago, I thought I was making a wise investment buying an Englander "Summers Heat" stove at the big blue box. Worst. Decision. Ever.
> 
> The first year, I had it set up in the basement. The stove was a dirty burner from day one. I bought it mid-season and just chalked it up to wonky installation. Onto year 2.
> 
> ...



Has a leaf blower, ever been attached to the vent to give the stove, a good sucking out?

Has the combustion blower, been pulled, and cleaned?


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## slvrblkk (Jan 2, 2014)

Mine does not suck....just sayin'


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## Indiana (Jan 2, 2014)

Combustion is a funny thing.  It needs the right events to happen.  I believe, like most will here, that you have an air issue. Take a deep breath.  We are all here to help.  I don't own the model you have but I have had my share of issues and they have all been operator error.


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## altarr (Jan 2, 2014)

MaryH said:


> Has a leaf blower, ever been attached to the vent to give the stove, a good sucking out?
> 
> Has the combustion blower, been pulled, and cleaned?



All the parts were pulled this summer and cleaned. All the piping etc was also cleaned thoroughly


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## altarr (Jan 2, 2014)

Indiana said:


> Combustion is a funny thing.  It needs the right events to happen.  I believe, like most will here, that you have an air issue. Take a deep breath.  We are all here to help.  I don't own the model you have but I have had my share of issues and they have all been operator error.



I appreciate the words of encouragement, however, this stove has never worked properly in 3 different configurations with the final configuration inspected and signed off on by someone who sells stoves. I wish there was something I could change/say I did wrong.


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## slvrblkk (Jan 2, 2014)

Please describe your current vent setup from the stove on out (I know you posted it earlier but give the lengths of everything...horizontal and vertical...(and all 45's and 90's's)....also, what are your lower 3 settings?  Burnpot filling up is _typically_ an airflow issue.....


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## MaryH (Jan 2, 2014)

slvrblkk said:


> Mine does not suck....just sayin'





altarr said:


> All the parts were pulled this summer and cleaned. All the piping etc was also cleaned thoroughly



*But...was a leaf blower attached to the vent?

Did you ever check, that it's in the correct "burn mode"?

The factory setting for the three buttons of the stove, is 1-4-1..........it should be in burn mode "3"

Turn off the stove and let it cool.
Unplug it, for a few seconds, then plug it back in.
Press the blower up and down buttons at the same time...(you get about 5 seconds to do this)
You will see a number displayed, that tells you what "mode" it is in.


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## stillersnut (Jan 2, 2014)

What are your settings? Bottom 3 numbers? Sounds like an air problem.  Even though it was a service tech guy, doesn't mean he knew what he was doing. I have a PAH and run my lower 3 settings on 3-3-1. Burning Turmans, PennWood, Barefoots.


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## slvrblkk (Jan 2, 2014)

stillersnut said:


> What are your settings? Bottom 3 numbers? Sounds like an air problem.  Even though it was a service tech guy, doesn't mean he knew what he was doing. I have a PAH and run my lower 3 settings on 3-3-1. *Burning Turmans, PennWood, Barefoots*.



All GREAT pellets!


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## IHATEPROPANE (Jan 2, 2014)

Sounds like an air issue

We need to know exact venting
What the settings are
Search Leaf Blower trick and perform
Make sure the burn pot sits correctly and there is no air bypass
Also, can you check the RPM of the combustion blower?


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## MaryH (Jan 2, 2014)

IHATEPROPANE said:


> Sounds like an air issue
> 
> We need to know exact venting
> What the settings are
> ...



Personally, I think he's been in the wrong mode, and "maybe", his heat exchanger, has fur balls.

Hubby says to put a hamster, in the combustion blower, to check RPM's, unless you have a better way for the layman to do this?


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## Harvey Schneider (Jan 2, 2014)

It would also be useful to know how you burn the stove. Do you have it smoldering on a low feed rate and no air when heat is not called for? Or do you maintain a roaring blaze whenever it is on? Pictures of the fire box, flame, fire pot ash, etc would help us see what you are talking about.


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## thadd677 (Jan 2, 2014)

Do you have an outside air kit installed?  I see that the manual for the stove says it's mandatory.


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## IHATEPROPANE (Jan 2, 2014)

MaryH said:


> Personally, I think he's been in the wrong mode, and "maybe", his heat exchanger, has fur balls.
> 
> Hubby says to put a hamster, in the combustion blower, to check RPM's, unless you have a better way for the layman to do this?



I have a cheap tachometer for the RPM.  I figured if the op had one laying around it would be wise to check


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## Harvey Schneider (Jan 2, 2014)

I'm surprised that nobody has asked about door seals, firepot seal, etc.


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## altarr (Jan 2, 2014)

stillersnut said:


> What are your settings? Bottom 3 numbers? Sounds like an air problem.  Even though it was a service tech guy, doesn't mean he knew what he was doing. I have a PAH and run my lower 3 settings on 3-3-1. Burning Turmans, PennWood, Barefoots.



When the stove is on and I hit each button it reads 1 9 1, I did these with englander. IS that what you mean?


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## slvrblkk (Jan 2, 2014)

Harvey Schneider said:


> I'm surprised that nobody has asked about door seals, firepot seal, etc.



We didn't get past the first stage yet!


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## altarr (Jan 2, 2014)

IHATEPROPANE said:


> Sounds like an air issue
> 
> We need to know exact venting
> What the settings are
> ...



The stove goes straight out the wall (a foot or so) elbow 90 degrees with cleanout tee, up 4ft, 90 degree, 1 foot out and cap

The stove is factory clean. Enough with the leaf blower question

The burn pot sits correctly. No idea how to check the blower.


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## altarr (Jan 2, 2014)

Harvey Schneider said:


> It would also be useful to know how you burn the stove. Do you have it smoldering on a low feed rate and no air when heat is not called for? Or do you maintain a roaring blaze whenever it is on? Pictures of the fire box, flame, fire pot ash, etc would help us see what you are talking about.



I have a 120 year old house with no insulation. So I try to keep it going all the time. Unfortunately, with this stove, that is pretty much on 1 with 9 on the blower. Anything else it backs up FAST. Heat is ALWAYS called for in the house or its off.


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## altarr (Jan 2, 2014)

MaryH said:


> Personally, I think he's been in the wrong mode, and "maybe", his heat exchanger, has fur balls.
> 
> Hubby says to put a hamster, in the combustion blower, to check RPM's, unless you have a better way for the layman to do this?



The heat exchanger got an enema. There is nothing left on it but metal. The hamster wont go near the fire.


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## altarr (Jan 2, 2014)

slvrblkk said:


> Please describe your current vent setup from the stove on out (I know you posted it earlier but give the lengths of everything...horizontal and vertical...(and all 45's and 90's's)....also, what are your lower 3 settings?  Burnpot filling up is _typically_ an airflow issue.....


I posted the lengths a minute ago....

Also the "lower 3". When the stove is on they are 1 9 1


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## altarr (Jan 2, 2014)

Harvey Schneider said:


> I'm surprised that nobody has asked about door seals, firepot seal, etc.


All the seals are intact and working properly. Please keep in mind that this has happened since day 1 with the stove (brand new)


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## altarr (Jan 2, 2014)

thadd677 said:


> Do you have an outside air kit installed?  I see that the manual for the stove says it's mandatory.



Absolutely do. When I clean the stove there is a pretty strong intake flow (as in, I feel the 10 degree air outside blowing on my hand when its in the burn cradle) I checked the intake pipe, clear sailing all the way.


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## slvrblkk (Jan 2, 2014)

ok...just to verify.....you have:.....stove adapter....1" horizontal section.....90 degree......cleanout "T"......4" of vertical.......90 degree.....1" horizontal.....cap

Is this correct and is this 3" vent?


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## Harvey Schneider (Jan 2, 2014)

altarr said:


> I posted the lengths a minute ago....
> 
> Also the "lower 3". When the stove is on they are 1 9 1


You are running with very little fuel and lots of air. You may be blowing most of the heat out the vent. I don't see how you can keep it lit with those settings. Mine would burn itself out in about an hour on those settings.
Something is way out of whack.


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## altarr (Jan 2, 2014)

slvrblkk said:


> ok...just to verify.....you have:.....stove adapter....1" horizontal section.....90 degree......cleanout "T"......4" of vertical.......90 degree.....1" horizontal.....cap
> 
> Is this correct?



More or less, so the cleanout T is the 90 degree, out from the stove, cleanout 90, 4 feet ish, 90, horizontal, cap.

I never get smoke in the house and when the stove does smoke (poor burning) it drafts pretty well


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## altarr (Jan 2, 2014)

Also, I know I may seem a bit snarky in some of my replies, I am just annoyed at this thing, please do not take it personally and I sincerely appreciate ALL the help you folks are lending.


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## altarr (Jan 2, 2014)

Harvey Schneider said:


> You are running with very little fuel and lots of air. You may be blowing most of the heat out the vent. I don't see how you can keep it lit with those settings. Mine would burn itself out in about an hour on those settings.
> Something is way out of whack.



This is how they told me to set it up on the phone. I was also told that this only affects the stove when its on 3 or lower. Hence "low burn,,,,".

The stove will never burn itself out unless it overflows the burnpot.


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## slvrblkk (Jan 2, 2014)

altarr said:


> Also, I know I may seem a bit snarky in some of my replies, I am just annoyed at this thing, please do not take it personally and I sincerely appreciate ALL the help you folks are lending.



None taken Brother....stove issues can ba a major pain in the ass.....we'll try and hopefully get you squared away....


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## Harvey Schneider (Jan 2, 2014)

altarr said:


> This is how they told me to set it up on the phone. I was also told that this only affects the stove when its on 3 or lower. Hence "low burn,,,,".
> 
> The stove will never burn itself out unless it overflows the burnpot.


Sorry, you have a different model than mine. I don't know what the settings should be on yours.


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## slvrblkk (Jan 2, 2014)

I* believe* factory for him should be 1-4-1......they probably told him to set it on "9" to try and help eject the ash out of the pot.

based on what you gave, your vent EVL is around 14....SO you should be good with 3" vent, although it is borderline for that.


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## MaryH (Jan 2, 2014)

altarr said:


> All the seals are intact and working properly. Please keep in mind that this has happened since day 1 with the stove (brand new)



Turn off the stove and let it cool.
Unplug it, for a few seconds, then plug it back in.
Press the blower up and down buttons at the same time...(you get about 5 seconds to do this)
You will see a number displayed, that tells you what "mode" it is in.

What does it display? (should be "3")


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## altarr (Jan 2, 2014)

slvrblkk said:


> I* believe* factory for him should be 1-4-1......they probably told him to set it on "9" to try and help eject the ash out of the pot.
> 
> based on what you gave, your vent EVL is around 14....SO you should be good with 3" vent, although it is borderline for that.



I believe that was the thinking. But again, does this not matter unless im on 3 or less?


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## altarr (Jan 2, 2014)

slvrblkk said:


> I* believe* factory for him should be 1-4-1......they probably told him to set it on "9" to try and help eject the ash out of the pot.
> 
> based on what you gave, your vent EVL is around 14....SO you should be good with 3" vent, although it is borderline for that.



I can make this as long or short as needed, does it have to go higher?


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## MaryH (Jan 2, 2014)

altarr said:


> I believe that was the thinking. But again, does this not matter unless im on 3 or less?



No, it effects the stove on all settings


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## slvrblkk (Jan 2, 2014)

altarr said:


> I can make this as long or short as needed, does it have to go higher?



Preferably shorter as long as you have your 3' of rise per the manual...but you really won't gain much by removing that one section....is this the same vent configuration you had in the basement?

*******gotta head to bed, up early for snow removal...will cont. tomorrow********

double double check the ash pan and gasket and make sure that is sealing up properly..that should be properly seated on ALL sides.....


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## altarr (Jan 2, 2014)

slvrblkk said:


> Preferably shorter as long as you have your 3' of rise per the manual...but you really won't gain much by removing that one section....is this the same vent configuration you had in the basement?



No the basement went up the chimney. I ran it for about 2 weeks that way before quitting to move it upstairs the next year.


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## altarr (Jan 2, 2014)

Here is the stove when it was starting up if this helps anyone

http://i.imgur.com/sjTxtmk.jpg


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## altarr (Jan 2, 2014)

slvrblkk said:


> Preferably shorter as long as you have your 3' of rise per the manual...but you really won't gain much by removing that one section....is this the same vent configuration you had in the basement?
> 
> *******gotta head to bed, up early for snow removal...will cont. tomorrow********
> 
> double double check the ash pan and gasket and make sure that is sealing up properly..that should be properly seated on ALL sides.....


 
I always push it in, on this stove it kind of sucks imho though, as the only closures are at the top ,I have always thought of running steel banding around the stove bottom to secure it better, but when I hold the match/candle up to it, the flame doesnt move, remarkably.


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## whlago (Jan 2, 2014)

altarr said:


> I have a 120 year old house with no insulation.


 
I'm not sure what is wrong with your stove........but I'm pretty sure this is why you are having trouble heating your home.  Sorry to say but you are going to be shovelling the proverbial doo doo against the wind unless you insulate that house.


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## altarr (Jan 2, 2014)

whlago said:


> I'm not sure what is wrong with your stove........but I'm pretty sure this is why you are having trouble heating your home.  Sorry to say but you are going to be shovelling the proverbial doo doo against the wind unless you insulate that house.



Ha, I have the expensive air insulation....

The stove does ok on 1. It is just the CONSTANT cleaning that makes me frustrated. When its working, the house will be almost 70. When its cold like this, probably 65 or so.


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## altarr (Jan 2, 2014)

Also, it feels like the stove has been WHIPPING through pellets lately, could just be me.


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## MaryH (Jan 2, 2014)

altarr said:


> I can make this as long or short as needed, does it have to go higher?



A: has done it since new
B: done it in 2 different installations
C: I'm pretty confident, between you, and stove tech, the gaskets, and hardware are ok
D: you had a hardware failure, of heat sensor wires shorted....did it not work proper, after this?
E: ours ran pretty crappy for a while...turned out, i was in the wrong mode, and set to burn cherry pits
F: if you can't turn it up past "one" on the burn mode - it is not getting enough air, feeding too many pellets, or "something" is clogged

*still no answer, to the leaf blower....you can't clean, where you can't see, without it


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## altarr (Jan 2, 2014)

MaryH said:


> A: has done it since new
> B: done it in 2 different installations
> C: I'm pretty confident, between you, and stove tech, the gaskets, and hardware are ok
> D: you had a hardware failure, of heat sensor wires shorted....did it not work proper, after this?
> ...




The stove worked the same before and after the replacement of the wires

i just checked the mode and its on 3. When I hit the blower buttons a three shows up on the left side readout. Damn i wish this was it.

the tech cleaned everything and used a huge air compressor. 

Here is a picture of the window (which was crystal clear 1.5 hours ago) just as I shut it down a few minutes ago.

http://i.imgur.com/KZUxDjd.jpg

that is 1.5 hours on 9/9


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## Harvey Schneider (Jan 2, 2014)

altarr said:


> Also, it feels like the stove has been WHIPPING through pellets lately, could just be me.


It's been cold, of course your burning pellets. My house is well insulated and my MVAE ate three bags of pellets in the past 24 hours. I keep preaching "you can't make heat without burning pellets". This has been a really cold winter so far. Don't blame the stove for that.


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## Lake Girl (Jan 3, 2014)

thadd677 said:


> Do you have an outside air kit installed?  I see that the manual for the stove says it's mandatory.



That was going to be my question...


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## altarr (Jan 3, 2014)

Lake Girl said:


> That was going to be my question...



Well my answer is the same for both of you......yes


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## Lake Girl (Jan 3, 2014)

I understand the frustration your experiencing and likely don't want to spend any more money on this but ... Maybe you should try the swap out to 4" venting to see if that clears up the burn problems.

Edit:  Basement install up the chimney should have been 4" vent based on EVL.  If you were running on 3" chimney liner, it would make sense that you had burn problems.  From previous answer on elbows and lengths of pipe, you may be on the limit of 3" venting.


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## altarr (Jan 3, 2014)

Lake Girl said:


> I understand the frustration your experiencing and likely don't want to spend any more money on this but ... Maybe you should try the swap out to 4" venting to see if that clears up the burn problems.
> 
> Edit:  Basement install up the chimney should have been 4" vent based on EVL.  If you were running on 3" chimney liner, it would make sense that you had burn problems.  From previous answer on elbows and lengths of pipe, you may be on the limit of 3" venting.



Most likely impossible at this point based on the sheer impossibility of getting the original through the wall. 

Also, I come in UNDER 14....which, while close to 15 isnt 15. I could attempt to vent it straight out and see if it helps....how long should I make that run? How does one support that?


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## altarr (Jan 3, 2014)

altarr said:


> Most likely impossible at this point based on the sheer impossibility of getting the original through the wall.
> 
> Also, I come in UNDER 14....which, while close to 15 isnt 15. I could attempt to vent it straight out and see if it helps....how long should I make that run? How does one support that?



If I took the top horizontal run off (temporarily) would that mess anything up? It would drop my EVL down to 8....but it would be venting straight up


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## Lake Girl (Jan 3, 2014)

I'm trying to figure out why there is a 1' horizontal run off the 90 at the top of vertical run ... usual configuration is vertical, 90, and termination cap.  Features on house that require clearance (windows, air inlet, etc) ?

What materials for walls?  Brick?

Edit:  What type of termination cap?

Pics might help


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## altarr (Jan 3, 2014)

Lake Girl said:


> I'm trying to figure out why there is a 1' horizontal run off the 90 at the top of vertical run ... usual configuration is vertical, 90, and termination cap.  Features on house that require clearance (windows, air inlet, etc) ?
> 
> What materials for walls?  Brick?




Doesnt need clearance, I can take it off tomorrow during the blizzard...


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## altarr (Jan 3, 2014)

Lake Girl said:


> I'm trying to figure out why there is a 1' horizontal run off the 90 at the top of vertical run ... usual configuration is vertical, 90, and termination cap.  Features on house that require clearance (windows, air inlet, etc) ?
> 
> What materials for walls?  Brick?
> 
> ...



The duravent version of this

http://www.ameri-vent.com/products/psv-hc/horizontal-cap


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## Lake Girl (Jan 3, 2014)

Mother Nature can be a *itch... We're finally in the -20sF up from -40F two nights ago

Not an expert on this type of installation as ours is just horizontal - Dimension between house exterior and exterior of vertical vent?  That plus elbow and termination cap = 12" from exterior wall per manual?

Exterior wall materials?  Curious as to why so difficult to get thimble installed...


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## IHATEPROPANE (Jan 3, 2014)

Harvey Schneider said:


> I'm surprised that nobody has asked about door seals, firepot seal, etc.



I asked about the burn pot and he said the seals were checked ny a technician


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## IHATEPROPANE (Jan 3, 2014)

altarr said:


> The stove worked the same before and after the replacement of the wires
> 
> i just checked the mode and its on 3. When I hit the blower buttons a three shows up on the left side readout. Damn i wish this was it.
> 
> ...


Just because a "tech" cleaned it it does not mean it was clean.....and how long ago was that?  How many bags through since?


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## ghandy131 (Jan 3, 2014)

This may sound simple but give it a try, works for me.  Open the ash draw about an inch and set bottom three buttons to 1-4-3.  Allows more combustion air if oak is restricted and increases pot stirrer rotation.


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## altarr (Jan 3, 2014)

IHATEPROPANE said:


> Just because a "tech" cleaned it it does not mean it was clean.....and how long ago was that?  How many bags through since?



It is and was very clean. After the cleaning it didnt work any better than when I cleaned it. Please note, this stove has never worked properly, so it doesnt come down to a bad cleaning etc.

All seals are good


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## tjnamtiw (Jan 3, 2014)

My suggestion = after 3+ years of unhappiness, it is very clear that you will never be happy with the stove under any circumstances so yank it out, put it on craigslist, and get another brand of stove.  End of problem, hopefully.


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## IHATEPROPANE (Jan 3, 2014)

altarr said:


> It is and was very clean. After the cleaning it didnt work any better than when I cleaned it. Please note, this stove has never worked properly, so it doesnt come down to a bad cleaning etc.
> 
> All seals are good



What brands of pellets have you tried?

Also, is there any way for you to measure the RPM of the combustion blower?


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## altarr (Jan 3, 2014)

tjnamtiw said:


> My suggestion = after 3+ years of unhappiness, it is very clear that you will never be happy with the stove under any circumstances so yank it out, put it on craigslist, and get another brand of stove.  End of problem, hopefully.



Ok, this isnt true. I WANT my 2k investment to work. I am desperate for it to work. But at the moment, it just isnt and it is coming to a head.


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## altarr (Jan 3, 2014)

IHATEPROPANE said:


> What brands of pellets have you tried?
> 
> Also, is there any way for you to measure the RPM of the combustion blower?



I started with inferno, then started playing with other brands as I had issues. I found that the type of pellets really only changed the consistency of the crap in the burn pot, nothing burned right

At the moment, using greene team. They are the most consistent so far on the low speed burns.


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## Harvey Schneider (Jan 3, 2014)

altarr said:


> I started with inferno, then started playing with other brands as I had issues. I found that the type of pellets really only changed the consistency of the crap in the burn pot, nothing burned right
> 
> At the moment, using greene team. They are the most consistent so far on the low speed burns.


I've used Inferno's, they are trash. The produce poor heat and lots of gunk. 
I am presently burning Greene Team's (for the second winter). They burn well, produce a fair amount of ash and leave little crust in the ash pan.
Slow burns produce more gunk than hot burns. If you are running for prolonged periods at slow burn you are going to get gunk in the burn pot. 
The flame you showed in those pictures didn't look that bad to me, so other than having to clean your stove more often, what is it that is troubling you?


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## slvrblkk (Jan 3, 2014)

At this point, you need to check your combustion blower as IHP pointed out......the only other suggestion is you are dumping a shitload of fuel in that thing running it on 9....does the stove burn ok when you just have the feed set on 3 or 4?  I have my stove set on 1-4-1 and cant run my feed past 3 or 4 as the thing is usually blazing by then....but it does depend on the pellet being burned too.....


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## altarr (Jan 3, 2014)

slvrblkk said:


> At this point, you need to check your combustion blower as IHP pointed out......the only other suggestion is you are dumping a shitload of fuel in that thing running it on 9....does the stove burn ok when you just have the feed set on 3 or 4?  I have my stove set on 1-4-1 and cant run my feed past 3 or 4 as the thing is usually blazing by then....but it does depend on the pellet being burned too.....



So the 9 setting is the low burn air...does that change the fuel feed rate? This is what englander had told me to put it on.


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## altarr (Jan 3, 2014)

Harvey Schneider said:


> I've used Inferno's, they are trash. The produce poor heat and lots of gunk.
> I am presently burning Greene Team's (for the second winter). They burn well, produce a fair amount of ash and leave little crust in the ash pan.
> Slow burns produce more gunk than hot burns. If you are running for prolonged periods at slow burn you are going to get gunk in the burn pot.
> The flame you showed in those pictures didn't look that bad to me, so other than having to clean your stove more often, what is it that is troubling you?



I agree. It isnt the cleaning...If I kick the stove up to lets say 8, It will take about an hour or so, but eventually the window will go black, smoke will be pouring out the vent outside and the burnpot will back all the way up and the stove will eventually shut off. But there will still be fire burning in the ash pan (spilled over) and set off the c02 detectors in the house. This is bad and CANNOT be the normal operation of the stove.

I tend to totally shut down every 3 days and clean the hell out of the thing. Annoying, yes, but it is what I have had to do so far. Every day or so, I stop the stove long enough to clean out the backed up burn pot then kick it back on.


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## altarr (Jan 3, 2014)

altarr said:


> I agree. It isnt the cleaning...If I kick the stove up to lets say 8, It will take about an hour or so, but eventually the window will go black, smoke will be pouring out the vent outside and the burnpot will back all the way up and the stove will eventually shut off. But there will still be fire burning in the ash pan (spilled over) and set off the c02 detectors in the house. This is bad and CANNOT be the normal operation of the stove.
> 
> I tend to totally shut down every 3 days and clean the hell out of the thing. Annoying, yes, but it is what I have had to do so far. Every day or so, I stop the stove long enough to clean out the backed up burn pot then kick it back on.


Here is the flame right now

http://i.imgur.com/aDBAnZb.jpg

Also, it REEKS outside from the smoke. I smell it and think of oil....


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## Harvey Schneider (Jan 3, 2014)

altarr said:


> Here is the flame right now
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/aDBAnZb.jpg
> 
> Also, it REEKS outside from the smoke. I smell it and think of oil....


The flame looks bright and active, but the smoke implies that it is burning rich. So, perhaps it's moving air though the fire box, but there is too much fuel. I can barely smell either of my stoves when I am outside and they are burning.
Has the auger motor ever been replaced? At some point you may want to verify that the auger shafts rotate at the correct rpm. I think all of the ESW products rotate at 1rpm, but I have seen some replacement motors with 1.5 rpm gear boxes. In diagnostic mode it is easy to count rpm of the auger motor. Do it with an empty bin.


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## slvrblkk (Jan 3, 2014)

You said you run your stove on 9 heat and 9 blower correct?  and currently your bottom 3 settings are 1-9-1?


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## altarr (Jan 3, 2014)

slvrblkk said:


> You said you run your stove on 9 heat and 9 blower correct?  and currently your bottom 3 settings are 1-9-1?


generally no because it cant handle it, I am pushing it today as it is 13 degrees outside.

So usually 1: 9 with 1/9/1

right now, 8:9 1/9/1

Should I change something?


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## tjnamtiw (Jan 3, 2014)

Forgive my ignorance, but I'm looking at the OP's stove manual right now.  You all keep talking about stove settings like 1-4-1 or 1-9-1 but when I look at the manual, I only see two led displays for Heat Range and Blower Speed.  Where are you reading these 3 numbers?  Obviously I don't have his brand but I was thinking of getting one for my son and trying to learn.  
To me, the flame looks lazy.  Too bad you can't see a short video.  Also, it sure sounds like way too much feed and not enough air.


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## Harvey Schneider (Jan 3, 2014)

tjnamtiw said:


> Forgive my ignorance, but I'm looking at the OP's stove manual right now.  You all keep talking about stove settings like 1-4-1 or 1-9-1 but when I look at the manual, I only see two led displays for Heat Range and Blower Speed.  Where are you reading these 3 numbers?  Obviously I don't have his brand but I was thinking of getting one for my son and trying to learn.
> To me, the flame looks lazy.  Too bad you can't see a short video.  Also, it sure sounds like way too much feed and not enough air.


The three numbers are "low fuel feed", "low air feed" and "blower", respectively. They are the trim values for low burn rates 1 through 3


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## slvrblkk (Jan 3, 2014)

altarr said:


> generally no because it cant handle it, I am pushing it today as it is 13 degrees outside.
> 
> So usually 1: 9 with 1/9/1
> 
> ...



I wonder if there is a different burn mode (beside 3) for your (our) stoves....maybe Mike H. will chime in on this thread. It still seems like an air issue.....combustion blower?????????


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 3, 2014)

ghandy131 said:


> This may sound simple but give it a try, works for me.  Open the ash draw about an inch and set bottom three buttons to 1-4-3.  Allows more combustion air if oak is restricted and increases pot stirrer rotation.



No pot stirrer on a PAH.

To the OP,

Send a private message to stoveguy2esw he is the head of England Stove Works tech group and just so happens he is running a PAH in his house.

PAH's need a good clean exhaust system all the way from just above the burn pot to the end of the termination cap.  They like all top feeders need good gaskets on the stove since the air flow going through the system actually removes the ash from the burn pot.

Your use of 9 as a low burn air setting tells me that your combustion blower isn't quite up to the task, this could be something as simple as where the impeller is on the shaft of the blower motor coupled with less than good gaskets or a burn pot that isn't 
sitting in its receptacle properly (warped maybe).


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## IHATEPROPANE (Jan 3, 2014)

altarr said:


> I agree. It isnt the cleaning...If I kick the stove up to lets say 8, It will take about an hour or so, but eventually the window will go black, smoke will be pouring out the vent outside and the burnpot will back all the way up and the stove will eventually shut off. But there will still be fire burning in the ash pan (spilled over) and set off the c02 detectors in the house. This is bad and CANNOT be the normal operation of the stove.
> 
> I tend to totally shut down every 3 days and clean the hell out of the thing. Annoying, yes, but it is what I have had to do so far. Every day or so, I stop the stove long enough to clean out the backed up burn pot then kick it back on.


 
Are the ash pans on these stove not negative pressure?


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## tjnamtiw (Jan 3, 2014)

Harvey Schneider said:


> The three numbers are "low fuel feed", "low air feed" and "blower", respectively. They are the trim values for low burn rates 1 through 3


Thank you, Sir!  All quite confusing after running my Quads!   
Those trims are just for low burn rates.  I would think on a 10 degree day, I'd have that thing on a high burn rate!  So right now, the OP says he's running at 8 feed rate with the room blower at max of 9.  Those trim values then mean nothing.  Right?  Because he's not on a low burn rate.


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## altarr (Jan 3, 2014)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> No pot stirrer on a PAH.
> 
> To the OP,
> 
> ...



Thanks for the tips, burnpot is new for this year (old one cracked on the bottom). Would the blower always have been bad?


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## AddictiveStew (Jan 3, 2014)

altarr said:


> Thanks for the tips, burnpot is new for this year (old one cracked on the bottom). Would the blower always have been bad?



I just recently posted about this on my Englander. Different model, but I'm wondering if my blower has been bad all along too. Hope you find the cause!


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 3, 2014)

altarr said:


> Thanks for the tips, burnpot is new for this year (old one cracked on the bottom). Would the blower always have been bad?



Well it might have been it might not have always been bad.  But in any event you should not need to have the LBA at 9.  It is also possible that your stove's controller is bad or the mode it is running in is wrong.  In any event talk to Mike.

I only know that burn pot air bypasses are no good and that top feed stoves depend upon good air flow to burn correctly and eject the ash, tons of things interfere with air flow the number one thing is lack of proper cleaning.

Besides Mike can handle your situation.

I do not even try to keep track of the controller mode settings, there are too many, and there are differences between this year's versions and several years ago.  Even the heat ranges interactions with the settings change.

The long and short of it is that burn pot build up is indeed an airflow issue.  It is even possible that the pellets you are burning can not be adjusted for.  For example high dense ash pellets such as industrial or standard grade may require 8 hour cleanings of the stove to burn correctly.

Some high density premium pellets may also cause issues and require adjustments to cleaning schedules.

In both of the above cases the problem is air flow, in the first there isn't enough toe keep the burn pot clear of ash and in the other to fully burn the pellets.


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## tjnamtiw (Jan 3, 2014)

altarr said:


> Thanks for the tips, burnpot is new for this year (old one cracked on the bottom). Would the blower always have been bad?


The blower COULD have always been bad or maybe it's never been getting full voltage.?! Stranger things have happened.  I had my auger jammed by an aluminum warning label that was never evidently stuck properly.  When you had the combustion blower out, did it spin freely?  Was there build up on the blades or behind it? Is it 110 volt motor? If so, did you try running it straight from a socket CAREFULLY?   Have you measured voltage to the motor when it's running to see if it's getting full voltage on max speed?


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## altarr (Jan 3, 2014)

Here is a video of the burn today


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## altarr (Jan 3, 2014)

tjnamtiw said:


> The blower COULD have always been bad or maybe it's never been getting full voltage.?! Stranger things have happened.  I had my auger jammed by an aluminum warning label that was never evidently stuck properly.  When you had the combustion blower out, did it spin freely?  Was there build up on the blades or behind it? Is it 110 volt motor? If so, did you try running it straight from a socket CAREFULLY?   Have you measured voltage to the motor when it's running to see if it's getting full voltage on max speed?



The combustion blower was never bad. It was something else in the stove that I replaced ( a sensor or something)


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## altarr (Jan 3, 2014)

altarr said:


> The combustion blower was never bad. It was something else in the stove that I replaced ( a sensor or something)



oooo i see what you are saying. everything checked out when it was taken apart for cleaning this summer


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## tjnamtiw (Jan 3, 2014)

How do you know the combustion blower was never bad?  What voltage is it seeing on heat setting 9?


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## altarr (Jan 3, 2014)

tjnamtiw said:


> How do you know the combustion blower was never bad?  What voltage is it seeing on heat setting 9?



I dont, but dont these get tested out of the factory?


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## tjnamtiw (Jan 3, 2014)

altarr said:


> I dont, but dont these get tested out of the factory?


You mean the factory in CHINA?????  

The stoves are made in the USA but components????  Cheapest bidder, me thinks.  I was replacing all the steering linkage on the Chevy K1500 so I figured I'd go with a good Germany brand like Bosch.  Got everything.  MADE IN CHINA  Darn things are worn out already!

"Fasco started with one manufacturing plant in Rochester, N.Y. in 1911. Today, we employ over 5,000 individuals in 13 facilities across North America and Asia Pacific and are continually increasing our capabilities on a global scale."


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## AddictiveStew (Jan 3, 2014)

I'm curious, do you hear the combustion motor ramp up or down when you adjust the setting? I don't hear anything with mine and I see no difference no matter what number it is on.


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## slvrblkk (Jan 3, 2014)

AddictiveStew said:


> I'm curious, do you hear the combustion motor ramp up or down when you adjust the setting? I don't hear anything with mine and I see no difference no matter what number it is on.



It's very minimal...you'd have to put a multi meter on it to see it....


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## iceguy4 (Jan 3, 2014)

altarr said:


> could the blower always have been bad



You-bet-cha.  check the voltage. I have seen a lot of stuff not working right out of the box...   I think there was another thread earlier this season... same kinda problems ...blower seemed OK ...but it wasn't... and a new exhaust blower fixed it.


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## IHATEPROPANE (Jan 3, 2014)

altarr said:


> I dont, but dont these get tested out of the factory?




My faulty convection blower blew my stove fuse the very first time I started it up.....that sucked


Another thought......js there a lot of gusty wind that blows towards the venting?


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## MaryH (Jan 3, 2014)

...at this point in time - I'd be inclined to experiment, with different burn modes, maybe one will work better for "your" stove, than "3"


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## Jason Knapp (Jan 3, 2014)

I suffered just as the OP did. My problems ended up being a burn pot that would not sit tight in the cradle, and the ash pan would not seal. Once I tightened up on the ash pan and replaced my old worn gaskets it burned and continues to burn perfectly. My other issue was a very large gap between the stove body and the hopper lid. Once I added some fiberglass rope to the low end, which was the same side as the control panel, it worked beautifully.


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## altarr (Jan 3, 2014)

IHATEPROPANE said:


> My faulty convection blower blew my stove fuse the very first time I started it up.....that sucked
> 
> 
> Another thought......js there a lot of gusty wind that blows towards the venting?


no wind


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## altarr (Jan 3, 2014)

Jason Knapp said:


> I suffered just as the OP did. My problems ended up being a burn pot that would not sit tight in the cradle, and the ash pan would not seal. Once I tightened up on the ash pan and replaced my old worn gaskets it burned and continues to burn perfectly. My other issue was a very large gap between the stove body and the hopper lid. Once I added some fiberglass rope to the low end, which was the same side as the control panel, it worked beautifully.


how did you tighten the ash pan?


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## Jason Knapp (Jan 4, 2014)

I doubled the gasket on the bottom of the ash pan. Just on the front though. The angled parts didnt require it. I also bent the edges of the ashpan in ever so slightly using a wide jaw vise grip.I also checked my work afterward using the dollar bill method and then ran the stove and traced the gasket area with a grill lighter.


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## tjnamtiw (Jan 4, 2014)

Jason Knapp said:


> I doubled the gasket on the bottom of the ash pan. Just on the front though. The angled parts didnt require it. I also bent the edges of the ashpan in ever so slightly using a wide jaw vise grip.I also checked my work afterward using the dollar bill method and then ran the stove and traced the gasket area with a grill lighter.


Great idea!


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## Jason Knapp (Jan 4, 2014)

tjnamtiw said:


> Great idea!


I know It sounds crazy, but any kind of air leak will disturb the lighter flame and kind of suck it into the stove.


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## stoveguy2esw (Jan 4, 2014)

sorry it took so long to catch this one , to the OP , how long had that stove been burning at the time the video was taken?

im not seeing any ash on the cradle surrounding the burn pot, is this typical? usually the ash will build around the pot like a mini volcano. if the cradle is staying clean around where the burn pot sits in it then you are blowing out combustion air around the pot instead of through it.


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## tjnamtiw (Jan 4, 2014)

stoveguy2esw said:


> sorry it took so long to catch this one , to the OP , how long had that stove been burning at the time the video was taken?
> 
> im not seeing any ash on the cradle surrounding the burn pot, is this typical? usually the ash will build around the pot like a mini volcano. if the cradle is staying clean around where the burn pot sits in it then you are blowing out combustion air around the pot instead of through it.


Me thinks we have found the problem, Houston!


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## IHATEPROPANE (Jan 4, 2014)

tjnamtiw said:


> Me thinks we have found the problem, Houston!



The question of burn pot bypass was asked on the first page.....the OP swears it is fine


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## tjnamtiw (Jan 4, 2014)

IHATEPROPANE said:


> The question of burn pot bypass was asked on the first page.....the OP swears it is fine


OK ........... Nope, that can't be it....


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## IHATEPROPANE (Jan 4, 2014)

tjnamtiw said:


> OK ........... Nope, that can't be it....



Lol...I hear ya


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## stoveguy2esw (Jan 4, 2014)

tjnamtiw said:


> Me thinks we have found the problem, Houston!


 

well, lets not close the book yet, need to hear back from the OP, if the stove had only been lit a short time it wouldn't have had time to build up like I'm looking for to support this. I have seen this happen and it will make for a good burn for a period of time and then after ash starts collecting in the bottom of the pot closing down the underneath air the balance is lost and more air shoots out under the pot, thus you have less though the pot and it snowballs into a big ugly mess


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## stoveguy2esw (Jan 4, 2014)

tjnamtiw said:


> OK ........... Nope, that can't be it....


 

I still want to know how long the unit had been burning this will be the key, could also be losing it around the cradle gasket, plenty of places to look, but to me its plain the stove is "mis-appropriating air" instead of forcing it through the pot


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## chrisasst (Jan 4, 2014)

Did you look at the pics he posted ( 2nd or 3rd page )  doesn't look like any ash on the sides either.


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## tjnamtiw (Jan 4, 2014)

stoveguy2esw said:


> I still want to know how long the unit had been burning this will be the key, could also be losing it around the cradle gasket, plenty of places to look, but to me its plain the stove is "mis-appropriating air" instead of forcing it through the pot


My comment was in jest......... hence the '.............'


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## slvrblkk (Jan 9, 2014)

Soooooo......any update on this??????


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## Harman Lover 007 (Jan 10, 2014)

wow....so I just read 107 posts and there's no resolution? Anti-climactic.....


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## Harvey Schneider (Jan 10, 2014)

Harman Lover 007 said:


> wow....so I just read 107 posts and there's no resolution? Anti-climactic.....


Started out with a chip on his shoulder. Got his problem solved... He doesn't need us anymore. 
Probably hasn't looked back to see what else was posted in his thread.
Oh well, we did a good deed.
And to the OP, your welcome.


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## iceguy4 (Jan 10, 2014)

Harvey Schneider said:


> Started out with a chip on his shoulder. Got his problem solved... He doesn't need us anymore. Probably hasn't looked back to see what else was posted in his thread. Oh well, we did a good deed. And to the OP,
> your welcome.


Exactly   ...Tacky



Harman Lover 007 said:


> wow....so I just read 107 posts and there's no resolution? Anti-climactic.....


 some people .....


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## IHATEPROPANE (Jan 10, 2014)

Harvey Schneider said:


> Started out with a chip on his shoulder. Got his problem solved... He doesn't need us anymore.
> Probably hasn't looked back to see what else was posted in his thread.
> Oh well, we did a good deed.
> And to the OP, your welcome.



Probably just dirty like we said in the first place


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## Pete Zahria (Jan 10, 2014)

Another newbie question... And I will thank you in advance ..
On these  55-SHP10 type stoves,
(I know they have different names and flavors for basically the same stove),
I have seen mention of people using different heat settings. Like C or D.
I know about the three lower buttons, and what they do (thanks to this forum),
but what about these "letter" heat settings?
How do you tune with those?
(my stove was built in 2013).

Dan


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## Harman Lover 007 (Jan 10, 2014)

Harvey Schneider said:


> Started out with a chip on his shoulder. Got his problem solved... He doesn't need us anymore.
> Probably hasn't looked back to see what else was posted in his thread.
> Oh well, we did a good deed.
> And to the OP, your welcome.


A chip??? More like a concrete block.....you guys done good...Englanders are out of my wheelhouse...but I was following it.


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## iceguy4 (Jan 10, 2014)

Harman Lover 007 said:


> A chip??? More like a concrete block


agreed.. the chip was so big moderators changed the title of the thread to tone it down "there ..I said it"


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## iceguy4 (Jan 10, 2014)

stoveguy2esw   pointed the OP in the right direction    ...thanks Mike


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## Jags (Jan 10, 2014)

Pete Zahria said:


> 55-SHP10


Please start a new thread with your question.  I am sure that the collective can help you out.
Gonna close this one. Everything that needs to be said, has been said.


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