# No offense intended to Cadillac fans



## 1750 (Mar 30, 2014)

But I thought this was pretty tremendous.  

If you have two minutes, watch the two clips at the end of the article.

http://www.businessinsider.sg/ford-destroys-cadillacs-rich-guy-ad-2014-3/#.UzioEye9KSP


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## webbie (Mar 30, 2014)

I saw that. Good for them.....

It's heartening to think that our current culture actually understands the concepts expressed in the Ford commercial. I can die happy now....


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## BrotherBart (Mar 30, 2014)

Corporate Judo. Love it. Use the other guys weight and momentum to nail him.


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## fossil (Mar 30, 2014)

Yeah, I was, fairly recently, looking pretty seriously at the Cadillac CTS AWD coupe.  Interesting car.  But I find this latest ad attitude from Cadillac so obnoxious that I've scratched the CTS off my list of candidate vehicles.  Corporate revulsion on a number of levels.  If I had a Cadillac I'd hide it until I could get rid of it.


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## webbie (Mar 30, 2014)

And this ad was fixed up so as NOT to offend thee....
"_An Automotive News interview interview with Cadillac marketing chief Uwe Ellinghaus, re-published in_ Ad Age _February 6, adds some new and crucial details. Ellinghaus says he worried that the ad, which originally used a different vehicle, would be seen as "snobby, arrogant, a little aloof"--so he swapped in the plug-in ELR coupe to make it more "socially palatable."
_
I think they were going to use the Escalade originally.....
I know it's hard to believe for us with more common sensibilities, but there are a lot of people who are like the guy in the commercial. In fact, I know some of them. Some of them are related to me...but not by blood. 

I'd rather have 5 weeks off and drive a Ford than 2 weeks and drive a Caddy. Then again, when I was growing up a Caddy was considered "gauche" among my set....probably because our parents (those who generally wanted to announce their status) had them.

I even remember my dad yelling at me about my perceived dislike of his choice of car.....he was saying what he thought I thought (but I didn't)...lots of choice sayings which folks used to describe the cars back then....mostly relating to the fact that Fleetwoods were the choice of many of the chosen people. 

At the time, caddy's were probably in their worse incarnation ever. My mom had the Eldorado convertible with the doors that were 10 feet long and started drooping about 2 weeks after you bought the car (laws of physics took over)....


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## Seasoned Oak (Mar 31, 2014)

webbie said:


> At the time, caddy's were probably in their worse incarnation ever. My mom had the Eldorado convertible with the doors that were 10 feet long and started drooping about 2 weeks after you bought the car (laws of physics took over)....


They have come a long way since then. Its safe to say, todays caddy is not your fathers,mothers grandfathers car anymore. I have been considering an escalade as a next purchase.
My No. 1 consideration being safety of the occupants.


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## yooperdave (Mar 31, 2014)

fossil said:


> Yeah, I was, fairly recently, looking pretty seriously at the Cadillac CTS AWD coupe.  Interesting car.  But I find this latest ad attitude from Cadillac so obnoxious that I've scratched the CTS off my list of candidate vehicles.  Corporate revulsion on a number of levels.  If I had a Cadillac I'd hide it until I could get rid of it.




Hmmm.  Moderating must pay well


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## webbie (Mar 31, 2014)

yooperdave said:


> Hmmm.  Moderating must pay well



You would never imagine. The monthly take could easily make a payment on this...


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## fossil (Mar 31, 2014)

yooperdave said:


> Hmmm. Moderating must pay well



Let's just say that I take home every bit as much for the time I spend here as you do for the time you spend here.


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## Retired Guy (Mar 31, 2014)

Can't bring myself to be anti-ambition.


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## Grisu (Mar 31, 2014)

Retired Guy said:


> Can't bring myself to be anti-ambition.



To me Pasho Murray does not strike me as not ambitious. She just cares about more than her own personal self-interest.


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## fossil (Mar 31, 2014)

Retired Guy said:


> Can't bring myself to be anti-ambition.



I'm all for ambition.  I'm anti-arrogance.


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## Seasoned Oak (Mar 31, 2014)

Grisu said:


> To me Pasho Murray does not strike me as not ambitious. She just cares about more than her own personal self-interest.


Nice to see a successful minority woman make it in business. Could serve as a much better role model than sports and rap stars.


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## webbie (Mar 31, 2014)

This being the interweb, we're not going to ever come to the end of this one....here is a caddy (at the end)....


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## Retired Guy (Mar 31, 2014)

Grisu said:


> To me Pasho Murray does not strike me as not ambitious. She just cares about more than her own personal self-interest.


I was refering to the Caddy commercial.


fossil said:


> I'm all for ambition.  I'm anti-arrogance.


Hard to avoid arrogance with advertisers and actors involved.


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## Bobbin (Mar 31, 2014)

The good man and I were stunned when we saw that smug, arrogant, self-aggrandizing commercial (and we wonder why the rest of the world loathes us? go figure).  We both agreed the present generation of Caddys have zero appeal to us.  I couldn't care less about AWD (I'd rather have fins and my Lincolns with the continental kit; it's tradition, like portholes on Buicks).  And I think the French (and many other countries!) have much to teach us about how to live life enjoyably and how to behave in a circumspect manner that doesn't rely on demeaning others to build yourself up.  "Ugly American"? Cadillac certainly managed to reinforce that stereotype, n'est ce pas?  I think the fact that we left a junk car on the moon is an embarrassment (leaving the "keys in it" was about a stupid as it gets).

And I love the big, bold Afro and the gritty "smack down", by someone who's "talkin' the talk and walkin' the walk.  That that "someone" is a woman is pure gravy for me.  Smart, dedicated, socially and ecologically conscious people interest and inspire me.  I can't remember the last time I had 2 wks. "off"... but whenever I want a day off, I take it!


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## Grisu (Mar 31, 2014)

Retired Guy said:


> I was refering to the Caddy commercial.



So did I. I wanted to show that you can have more ambition than just a fat paycheck.


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## webbie (Apr 1, 2014)

The Wolf of Wall Street and his hundreds of employees had that kind of ambition (certainly didn't take a month off)....true story, also!


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## fossil (Apr 1, 2014)

At some point, in some people, ambition morphs into plain old naked insatiable greed.  In my mind, it's no longer recognizable as ambition.  Ambition = good, greed = evil.


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## webbie (Apr 1, 2014)

I think you can somewhat suss it out by the end desires of the ambitious. Steve Jobs and the google guys have goals of adding to the intelligence of mankind, etc.

The Wolf and his hundreds of employees had their bank accounts as the #1 and only issue. It's the same old story...sometimes it seems as if we reward the financial system workers more than those who actually do something. 

Then there is everything in-between. It's amazing how much MLM and "passive income" and other stuff is around these days. Oh, real experience here - my book is a best seller on Amazon. Last week I looked and there was another book with a similar topic! One look at the sample and I saw that it was, thought for thought, a weak copy of mine. I looked up the guy who "wrote" it and he's bragging everywhere about "passive" income....meaning making money without working. One of his schemes is to take books and then hire someone to copy them, while changing the wording every so slightly......

That's ambition? Nah. That's greed and immorality.


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## Seasoned Oak (Apr 1, 2014)

Rich guys buying expensive toys like the plugin caddy and the tesla cars are paving the way for the rest of us down the road to be able to buy affordable, reliable electric cars. It sure does help us more than when they buy a new yacht or a third or fourth home. Let them pay the R&D and the upfront startup cost. Many say GM should have started with the caddy instead of the volt.


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## webbie (Apr 1, 2014)

That's true - tesla did it right. I had never thought about it much until I heard him explain it in a podcast a couple years back. 

We've heard so much crap about how expensive solar, wind and electric cars are...and about the terrible failings of Solydra, etc. etc. - but as you point out, this is exactly what is supposed to happen. Anyone who looks at the charts can see the trend. 

Dealers are very scared of Tesla it seems. No reason they should be....in the short term. But I guess they want generational monopolies on this stuff.


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## ironspider (Apr 1, 2014)

I know I'm the minority here but I didn't find that caddy commercial too arrogant.  What they are trying to show it's the guy that works hard and willing to take risks get rewarded.  

I'm not a caddy fan but I enjoyed both commercials. I do like Ford trucks though.


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## johneh (Apr 1, 2014)

ironspider said:


> I know I'm the minority here but I didn't find that caddy commercial too arrogant. What they are trying to show it's the guy that works hard and willing to take risks get rewarded.
> I'm not a caddy fan but I enjoyed both commercials. I do like Ford trucks though.


Only thing I prefer GMC Trucks 
But to each his own !


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## Seasoned Oak (Apr 1, 2014)

ironspider said:


> I know I'm the minority here but I didn't find that caddy commercial too arrogant.  What they are trying to show it's the guy that works hard and willing to take risks get rewarded.
> .


Most of us admire hard work and success, but what we dont like is when the rich appear to gloat or rub our noses in their success.
No one like a bragger,in person or on TV. As a hard working self-employed person in business i know the kind of commitment of time and capitol it takes to just stay afloat these days let alone become rich.


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## ironspider (Apr 1, 2014)

Seasoned Oak said:


> Most of us admire hard work and success, but what we dont like is when the rich appear to gloat or rub our noses in their success.
> No one like a bragger,in person or on TV. As a hard working self-employed person in business i know the kind of commitment of time and capitol it takes to just stay afloat these days let alone become rich.



I get that but I appreciate the risks and the rewards the wealthy attain, I'm not wealthy by any stretch, but I have to give it to them when their risks and hard work pay off. Unless of course it's given to them.


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## bigbarf48 (Apr 2, 2014)

I can't for the life of me understand the hate for the Cadillac conmercial. It's a message that needs to be spread more: work hard, pave your own way, get what you want by your own hand, not by taking from others or relying on others


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## fossil (Apr 2, 2014)

Right, no problem.  And they could have said all of those wonderful things and more *without feeling it necessary to poke our European friends in the eye*.


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## Grisu (Apr 2, 2014)

bigbarf48 said:


> I can't for the life of me understand the hate for the Cadillac conmercial. It's a message that needs to be spread more: work hard, pave your own way, get what you want by your own hand, not by taking from others or relying on others



Then don't use an actor but someone who really worked to get where he/she is now. Like the woman from the Ford commercial.


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## Retired Guy (Apr 3, 2014)

fossil said:


> Right, no problem.  And they could have said all of those wonderful things and more *without feeling it necessary to poke our European friends in the eye*.


Who has European friends anymore?


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## begreen (Apr 3, 2014)

Retired Guy said:


> Who has European friends anymore?


Old or new?


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## Flatbedford (Apr 3, 2014)

I'd rather Have the Ford and the month of August off than two weeks off and a blinged up Chevy.


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## Seasoned Oak (Apr 3, 2014)

Flatbedford said:


> I'd rather Have the Ford and the month of August off than two weeks off and a blinged up Chevy.


I have a chevy and take half the year off.


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## begreen (Apr 3, 2014)

I have a Volt and just took the whole year off, and the next one too.


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## Bobbin (Apr 4, 2014)

Umm,  I have several European friends and I particularly like their perspective on things economic and political.  Since you're Retired, I politely contend that you ought to travel more, Guy.


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## BrotherBart (Apr 4, 2014)

I am gonna pick up a lightly used Chevy Cobalt cheap somewhere soon.


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## fossil (Apr 4, 2014)

I'm cultivating a new friendship with some really nice and very talented folks at Bayerische Motoren Werke AG, in Bavaria.


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## Redbarn (Apr 5, 2014)

Owning a Caddy is a public admission that you can't afford a Lexus, Mercedes, BMW or Jag.......


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## Seasoned Oak (Apr 5, 2014)

Redbarn said:


> Owning a Caddy is a public admission that you can't afford a Lexus, Mercedes, BMW or Jag.......


Or a tendency to buy products from an american company and support american businesses. You may need a new car cuz you will put on a lot of miles chasing the vanishing jobs.


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## Redbarn (Apr 5, 2014)

My real point is that a Caddy is no longer close to being a car to aspire to.
The Tesla is now THE car to aspire to.
A real US success story. Great US innovation, design and  manufacturing.


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## Seasoned Oak (Apr 5, 2014)

Redbarn said:


> My real point is that a Caddy is no longer close to being a car to aspire to.
> The Tesla is now THE car to aspire to.
> A real US success story. Great US innovation, design and  manufacturing.


Today cadillac is not the same one your grandfather used to drive. They have come a long way since then.Perhaps they should have given the new ones a different the name to avoid the old stigma of years back. If i ever get in a head on collision id much prefer to be in an escalade than any of the models you mentioned. I never liked any of the old caddys,or wanted one, but lately im impressed with what they have done with them.  Just a thought.


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## BrotherBart (Apr 5, 2014)

Seasoned Oak said:


> Today cadillac is not the same one your grandfather used to drive.



If it was it would look a lot like a Ford Falcon.


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## Seasoned Oak (Apr 5, 2014)

BrotherBart said:


> If it was it would look a lot like a Ford Falcon.


They were hot in the day. A friend of mine used to put an old coil spring between the punkin and the trunk to jack his up. Worked great until he hit a bump and the spring ripped a hole in his trunk.


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## BrotherBart (Apr 5, 2014)

32 miles to the gallon. In 1960!


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## Grisu (Apr 5, 2014)

BrotherBart said:


> 32 miles to the gallon. In 1960!



Put a modern engine in and you will get 50+ mpg. All those improvements in fuel efficiency have been for naught due to bigger and heavier cars. Another example of Jevons paradox.


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## BrotherBart (Apr 5, 2014)

Hyundai Excel weighs the same as the Falcon did and gets about exactly the same gas mileage.


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## fossil (Apr 5, 2014)

Grisu said:


> Put a modern engine in and you will get 50+ mpg. All those improvements in fuel efficiency have been for naught due to bigger and heavier cars. Another example of Jevons paradox.



Another example of a BS generalization.


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## Grisu (Apr 5, 2014)

BrotherBart said:


> Hyundai Excel weighs the same as the Falcon did and gets about exactly the same gas mileage.



You are right, the Falcon was really ahead of its time. I still doubt that people would buy it today even with a more modern look. Nevertheless, studies clearly show that increased fuel efficiency of car engines has been offset by higher weight and horsepower demands resulting in essentially unchanged mpg since 1980. 

http://www.automotive-fleet.com/cha...fuel-economy-gains-between-1980-and-2006.aspx

A big shift in mpg numbers happened in the 70ies during the oil crisis and then some slow improvements over the last 10 years. 

http://www.ibtimes.com/forty-years-...l-economy-it-also-helped-expedite-better-fuel



fossil said:


> Another example of a BS generalization.



One outlier does not make a trend.


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## fossil (Apr 5, 2014)

Grisu said:


> One outlier does not make a trend.



Oh no! You've turned my whole concept of statistics on its ear.


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## Grisu (Apr 5, 2014)

fossil said:


> Oh no! You've turned my whole concept of statistics on its ear.



Just wanted to answer a platitude with another one. Since that will be leading nowhere good: Peace?


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## Seasoned Oak (Apr 5, 2014)

Its not just MPG standards that the Mfgs are maintaining its also pollution levels. Pollution controls have really killed the MPGs of the jetta deisel cars.
90s models got 50+ MPG and the new ones get low 40s. Family member had one of each and gets at least 10MPG less in the late model one.


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