# Stihl 036 PRO vs. Echo 510 EVL



## Ashful (Mar 5, 2013)

Initial impression... my new Stihl 036 PRO (62cc) has far less grunt than my old Echo 510 EVL (50cc).  The Stihl is an almost NIB deal, the piston showing zero wear when viewed thru the exhaust port, and pulling 10.6:1 compression.  This saw is clean thru and thru.  The Echo is old and neglected, but relatively low hours, as the man who gave it to me rarely ever used it.  Both are running brand new RSC-3 chain, both on 20" sprocket-nose bars in new or good condition.

The Stihl has a new fuel filter, new air filter, and was just retuned by my local Stihl dealer.  The Echo has not been retuned in probably 20 years.

I don't have spec's on the operating RPM of the Echo, but the Stihl runs 13,500 max, likely faster than the Echo.  Perhaps the Stihl will outcut the Echo, when I finally have time to put both to a real test, however I can say the Stihl seems WAY too easy to stall in a cut.  So far, I'm severely underwhelmed.


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## ScotO (Mar 5, 2013)

I think you'll find that most older saws, while not having the RPM's of the new saws, have better torque than the new saws.  That's one of the reasons I love to use my old Stihl 041AV Supers over the other saws I own.  CC for CC, I don't think you can beat the old saws......
We can thank emission regulations for a lot of that.  Now, if you feel ambitious, you can put a dual port muffler on that 036, retune it, and see a definate difference in power....


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## Jags (Mar 5, 2013)

Get it into some wood.  Then let us know the comparison.  Interested.


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## Ashful (Mar 5, 2013)

Scotty Overkill said:


> ...if you feel ambitious, you can put a dual port muffler on that 036, retune it, and see a definate difference in power....


 

Maybe I'll do that, Scotty. I definitely need to do something to give this saw some balls.

After using the 064 AV as much as I have this year, just about anything else feels wimpy, but I do want something with less weight and a compression release valve. The 064 with a 28" bar is heavy for all-day use, and pull starting that thing with no compression release gets old by mid-day. The T435 works nice for real small stuff, and I figured the 036 PRO would be a good gap filler between the two.

The 510 EVL is probably my most reliable saw, with phenomenal power for a 50cc saw, but it's fairly heavy for a saw that small. My primary reason for buying something to replace it is that I just don't like the chain brake handle on the 510, and I got sick of having to use a funnel to fill the too-small top-mounted tank openings.




Jags said:


> Get it into some wood. Then let us know the comparison. Interested.


Will do!  Thought I'd be bucking a few cords this weekend, which I downed back in February, but was just told it's way too muddy to access the lot where I have it laid out.  Might be a few weeks before it dries enough to get back there!


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## MasterMech (Mar 5, 2013)

Joful said:


> After using the 064 AV as much as I have this year, just about anything else feels wimpy, but I do want something with less weight and a compression release valve. The 064 with a 28" bar is heavy for all-day use, and pull starting that thing with no compression release gets old by mid-day.


Maybe you're looking for a MS440 or 044? 

That 036 should outcut the 510EVL by a fairly wide margin. Check the plug gap and type to ensure it's correct.  Maybe even try giving the H screw an 1/8th of a turn counterclockwise.  If the engine seems in order, take a look under the clutch cover, any chance someone slipped an 8 pin rim/sprocket on it?  That would make it a touchy machine indeed.


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## Ashful (Mar 5, 2013)

Thanks, MM.  The MS440 or 044 would be the way to go if I didn't have the 064, and in fact was what I had considered (T435 + 044), based on a suggestion from smokinj.  However, 044's don't come up used around here too often, and I was able to buy the 064 AV _and _the 036 PRO for less than what an MS440 would cost.  Besides,  (for me...) two saws are better than one, when I have a helper or I am trying to get lots of cutting done on my day off and one saw gets messed up.

I'll check the sprocket count, although my local Stihl shop put a brand new rim sprocket on there, so I'm guessing it's the factory part for a 0.375" chain.  Haven't had the clutch open, yet.  Plug looked nice (clean and amber shade), so I just reset the gap and reinstalled.  Might be worth trying a new plug.

My thinking is this saw develops its HP at a higher RPM, and is just less torquey than the old 510EVL.  I'm used to pivoting on the dogs when I cut with anything larger than 40cc's, and maybe this saw is just not up to that.  My two quick test cuts last night were ripping 18" rounds of ash, stood on end.  Not noodling (where round would be on its side), but straight up ripping.


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## lukem (Mar 5, 2013)

I can lean on my 361 pretty hard before stalling it, if at all.  Something is up....dunno what though.


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## LuckyLane (Mar 5, 2013)

lukem said:


> I can lean on my 361 pretty hard before stalling it, if at all. Something is up....dunno what though.


 
I'm in the same camp as lukem - something's up.  I have an 036 PRO I purchased used last summer and stalling it in the cut has not been an issue.  Mind you I don't really apply pressure but let a sharp chain pull itself through the cut.  For reference I'm also running a 20" bar with full chisel chain.


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## Ashful (Mar 5, 2013)

Well, let me get a good day of cutting on it, before I jump to any more conclusions.  I know the piston looks perfect and the compression pulls great.  New filters all 'round, and just retuned by a pro shop.  I did forget to check the spark arrestor screen while I had the muffler off, and could replace the plug, but that's about all that's left without really digging into it.


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## DexterDay (Mar 5, 2013)

That 036 Pro should out pull that Echo every day of the week? I have 3 036's and even the standard 036 is a Mean A$$ machine. Pre EPA and pulls like a Champ. I love my 460, but the 036 Pro isn't far behind in power.

A dual port will help, but shouldn't be needed. 

You say the compression is 10.6:1? What is that in lbs? (Maybe there is a conversion, but I am a ill slow  and like #'s, like 160 lbs)


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## Ashful (Mar 5, 2013)

The barometric pressure that night was 1006.2 millibars (14.59 PSI), and the saw pulled 155 PSI on the gauge, so 10.6:1 compression.

I'll withhold all further opinions on this saw until I get a real day out in the field with it.  I am definitely not ready to call this little thing a "mean a$$ machine," based on my limited experience with it so far.

What they really need to do is put a 75cc motor in a chassis the size and weight of an 029.  That would be the saw for me!


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## MasterMech (Mar 5, 2013)

Joful said:


> The barometric pressure that night was 1006.2 millibars (14.59 PSI), and the saw pulled 155 PSI on the gauge, so 10.6:1 compression.​


 
, usually we're good with just the gauge reading. 



Joful said:


> I'll withhold all further opinions on this saw until I get a real day out in the field with it. I am definitely not ready to call this little thing a "mean a$$ machine," based on my limited experience with it so far.​


 
Definitely double check the size of that sprocket.



Joful said:


> What they really need to do is put a 75cc motor in a chassis the size and weight of an 029. That would be the saw for me! ​


 
The MS440(044) is about as close as you'll get to that 71cc, 13.8lbs. That's why I suggested it originally.


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## Ashful (Mar 5, 2013)

Well, I may end up going that way, depending on how this 036 works out.  What's the going price on a 440?  044?  I put word into a few local shops last spring/summer, that I was looking for a 70 - 75cc pro saw, and all of them told me they rarely (read, "almost never") get a clean one in on trade.

I'll check the sprocket this weekend.  What's the pin count on the factory sprocket?


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## MasterMech (Mar 5, 2013)

Joful said:


> What's the pin count on the factory sprocket?​


 7


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## MasterMech (Mar 5, 2013)

Joful said:


> I put word into a few local shops last spring/summer, that I was looking for a 70 - 75cc pro saw, and all of them told me they rarely (read, "almost never") get a clean one in on trade.​


 
Yeah, the 044's/046's and the MS440/460's generally go one of two ways.  They become heirlooms or get run into the dirt.  I see good ones for sale all the time that have fried top-ends.  Problem is, you'll spend $300+ on it and still need a $250 top-end kit (if you buy OEM).  I'd do it if the saw was near mint but that's still pricey.


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## Ashful (Mar 9, 2013)

I spent the day cutting with the 036 PRO.  It does indeed cut pretty damn fast, in smaller or lighter stuff.  I still find it disappointing, how easily I can stall it in a big round of green oak or ash, but I could stall the Echo in that stuff as well.  Sometimes I just get too used to the 064, and expect the smaller saws to cut the same!


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## fox9988 (Mar 10, 2013)

My Echo CS-510 does a very good job holding its own against my 036, and it's noticably lighter. I switch over to the 036 on 18"+ trees.


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## Ashful (Mar 10, 2013)

fox9988 said:


> My Echo CS-510 does a very good job holding its own against my 036, and it's noticably lighter. I switch over to the 036 on 18"+ trees.


 
Yeah, the CS-510 is definitely lighter!  One guy I cut with frequently has a CS-510, and it's noticeably lighter than my older 510 EVL.

On hardwood over 18", I put down the 036, and pick up the 064.


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