# Which Splitter?



## New Fire Guy (Dec 19, 2010)

Which 22-ton splitter should I go with, the Brave or the Iron & Oak?


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## Elderthewelder (Dec 20, 2010)

they are one in the same, Brave and Iron Oak are the same company or sister companies at least and according to Braves web site their Iron Oak is their commercial grade product
http://www.braveproducts.com/ourcompany.php


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## jlove1974 (Dec 20, 2010)

I have looked at both pretty hard this week. I would have to say, for a tiny more amount of money (almost) the Iron and Oak gives you a better hydraulic fluid capacity,
which will help the life of the pump and cylinder over the long haul. I also like the color, and the add-ons are cheaper for some reason (like the log dislodger which should be standard)

I would have to say this is the best price on a full-beam V&H type Iron and Oak 22-ton with the briggs engine I have seen:

http://www.woodsplittersdirect.com/product_info.php?cPath=2_63&products_id=227

free shipping to boot.


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## richg (Dec 20, 2010)

Iron & Oak builds amazing splitters. I rented one this past spring and also had a 25-ton MTD on site at the same time. The MTD was a toy compared to the Iron & Oak.


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## thinkxingu (Dec 20, 2010)

jlove, that looks nice and all BUT for $1800 you could buy two Huskee 22-ton machines.  For that money, Iron and Oak should throw in a little garden gnome to scoot around picking up bark and other debris!

S


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## jlove1974 (Dec 20, 2010)

thinkxingu said:
			
		

> jlove, that looks nice and all BUT for $1800 you could buy two Huskee 22-ton machines.  For that money, Iron and Oak should throw in a little garden gnome to scoot around picking up bark and other debris!
> 
> S



yup and the Huskee has a longer cycle time and the fluid temps are going to be higher, and the foot is smaller opposite the wedge, so you get what you pay for.
The only reason the Huskee has been recommended so much is because many ppl have gotten a discount on it.
I'd rather have a used commercial splitter that didn't have a vertical shaft pushmower engine...


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## thinkxingu (Dec 20, 2010)

Really, 12 vs. 14 seconds?  Don't forget, that's only for the complete throw--if you did half that on a regular basis (reality) than you're looking at 1 second difference.  Not sure that's worth $800.  BUT, I do understand about the 'get what you pay for'; just sayin'.

S


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## jlove1974 (Dec 20, 2010)

thinkxingu said:
			
		

> Really, 12 vs. 14 seconds?  Don't forget, that's only for the complete throw--if you did half that on a regular basis (reality) than you're looking at 1 second difference.  Not sure that's worth $800.  BUT, I do understand about the 'get what you pay for'; just sayin'.
> 
> S



That's just one factor. Here's my main factor of spending extra:
There are two ways to solve overheating problems in hydraulic systems: decrease heat load or increase heat dissipation.

Hydraulic systems dissipate heat through the reservoir

The Iron and Oaks hold twice the amount of fluid as any 'consumer' grade splitter. That prevents heat-related issues, which lead to long life.

The ENGINE on a modern splitter doesn't mean anything. It's all about the weakest link, which, in a dual-stage pump system, is capacity.


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## triptester (Dec 20, 2010)

Beware of advertised tonnage ratings and cycle times. When cylinder bore, stroke , and rod size are the same, and using the same GPM pump the at the same RPM the cycle times will be the same.


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## jlove1974 (Dec 20, 2010)

triptester said:
			
		

> Beware of advertised tonnage ratings and cycle times. When cylinder bore, stroke , and rod size are the same, and using the same GPM pump the at the same RPM the cycle times will be the same.



The OP wanted to know the diff between two specific splitters. Here is the basic differences

The Brave VH0622 and the Iron and Oak BHVH2202 have the same pump rate, same cylinder, and are from the same parent company.
The I/O is built beefier with a larger reservoir, and it is advertised 2 seconds faster 'approximate' cycle time. They cost about $150 more than the Brave.

The Huskee/Speeco has the same cylinder, same 11gpm pump, but the smaller fluid capacity and the verticle shaft throwaway engine is a cost-cutting move.
It's cheap, sold at a big box, and you might get a good deal on a returned one


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## Splitter77 (Dec 21, 2010)

Hi Everyone,

My name is Mike and I am the owner of WoodSplittersDirect.com 

I read several forums but I dont post much.   I just thought I would chime in here a bit.  I just wanted to mostly tell you my thoughts on the Iron & Oak splitters.  I have read several log splitter vs. log splitter threads and people generally seem to be pretty happy with what ever they ended up buying.  A good portion of the reason is because we all cant afford to buy 5 different log splitters and try them all out or the stores dont really demo their units.  So people by one and they really dont know the true difference because they have never tried or even seen a splitter that is $800 more.  They see the price tag and a picture on the internet and cant really see the difference to justify the cost.   

I get the question every single day why should I buy a $2000 22-ton Iron & Oak when I can buy this "imported" splitter that is 37-Tons (allegedly) for $1250?   Or I can buy this department store splitter for $XXX and its the same thing etc...  Well they are just not the same.  I always use the comparison of cars, most any car will get you from point A to B but there are thousands of different cars with different purposes and options etc.  Some as we all know last a lot more miles then others do.  Some are faster some can pull trailers up grades better etc etc etc.

Same with splitting wood.  Some splitters are faster, some are heavier duty and bigger, some have all American parts, some have no name unproven imported parts that dont last as long etc etc.  So it comes down to your budget, what kind of longevity your trying to get out of a splitter, how fast you want to split a piece of wood etc.  

Personally I have tried a lot of splitters.  We carry several different types and models and 1000% hands down MY personal choice is Iron & Oak.  I have put together several of the units,  the quality and workmanship and the heavy duty double walled beam, the Prince valves, Haldex Barnes pumps, horizontal shafted motors etc etc just make these splitters absolute tanks.  Just the crate it shows up in is impressive in its self.    If you look at rental places most places I have seen all use Iron & Oak splitters as their rentals.  I have never seen a imported splitter being used as rentals.  We have been asked several times to buy and carry larger imported splitters, and trust me I have thought long and hard about it.  Even though I know we could move a lot of imports just based on price alone we just don't want to do it.  We carry the compact electric imports but that is as far as we are going to go until we can find a good American compact electric.     

Again my intention of this post is *my personal thoughts* of the Iron & Oak compared to other splitters.  If your looking at splitters, do your self justice and try to compare them.  If you were to line up several brands together I am confident in which splitter would catch your attention.  I know which one has me sold.  But there is that one small thing that always seems to play a key factor ................  you got it, Money!

Thanks for reading,

Mike


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## jlove1974 (Dec 21, 2010)

Thanks for the reply Mike. I have experienced using quite a few borrowed or rental splitters, since my father used to work for the now-defunct Rental Tool and Equipment company in the 90s.
Two of my friends own splitters that are AT LEAST 25-30 years old (one a montgomery ward repowered w/ a Briggs 11hp and the other a northstar that has been repowered and re-pumped once )
The build quality of each gives me something to base my opinion of a splitter just by looking at it.

I also have a friend who purchased one of the recent Northstars by Northern Tool. It leaves something to be desired in the build quality department, but the hydraulics are decent.
I notice they have since beefed up their entire line. This one doesn't have a mechanism to lock it in the vertical position, and is (to me) a dangerous oversight. I also bent the log dislodger on a piece of sycamore, which shouldn't happen.

When I started looking at the Braves, I noticed they were alot more for the same money. Then the Iron and Oaks are a step beyond that for a little bit more. I believe in buying power equipment to last a lifetime if possible nowadays...

I do have a question for you, what do you think of the newer short-beam units. I notice everyone from Troybilt to Brave makes one of these for consumer grade splitters.
What are the advantages or disadvantages to this design?


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## triptester (Dec 21, 2010)

Short beam splitters have been around for a long time. Powersplit, TimberDevil, SuperAxe. Wallenstein, MTD, and others. The advantage of a short beam is that it flexes less than a long beam of the same size, allows for a more compact design, and lighter splitter. Disadvantage is that they require a custom made cylinder, require  greater attention to design details, and a more presision assembly.

MTD would be at the bottom when it gets down to quality of cylinder design.


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## jlove1974 (Dec 21, 2010)

MTD = troybilt, cub cadet, yard machines, bolens, white outdoor. Basically anything sold at home cheapo or lowes-t. 
I looked at the troybilt 27-ton at lowes the other day, and it was disappointing. It has a built-in cradle and log dislodger, but they are pretty flimsy looking.
After I bent the one on my friends Northstar I started noticing that particular aspect of design. Sure it beats hitting the logs off the wedge with a sledge!
But they are there to protect the splitter also. Protection shouldn't bend IMO.

Also I was suprised to learn that the Huskees were built by Speeco. When I get a chance to drop by TSC I will try to go over there. I am fortunate to have
a Harbor Sheight, Northern Tool, TSC, Lowes and a few other stores just up the road from me in Concord. Come tax time, I will be making a purchase of hydraulic proportions!


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## thinkxingu (Dec 21, 2010)

Hey Mike,
     Welcome to the forum and thanks for the information.  I did notice the local HD sells MTD and Ariens but rents Iron & Oak.  Still a tough pill to swallow in the price department, though that's because I scored my Yard Machines for $430.  Cha-ching!

S


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## Splitter77 (Dec 21, 2010)

About the short beams...  To be honest I am not real sure about them, nor am I a huge fan of them.  It is a cost and weight saving feature that is for sure but as far a performance I can not really comment on it yet.  We do sell the Ariens Splitters and they are the short beam design.  They are just a standard I beam most lower cost splitters use.  These beams tend to flex quite a bit more.  Iron & Oak does have the shorter beam on the EZ split 15-Ton and we have sold plenty with out any issues.  So I cant really knock the short beam as far a performance as I haven't experienced issues with them.   I think its ok on the lower tonnage splitters but not sure on the 25-34 ton splitters.  That is where you get the most stress on a beam when you get into the 4.5 and 5" cylinders.  But when I look at the beam between the Ariens 27,34-Ton and the Iron & Oak 20,22,26,30,34-Ton it again is a "no brainer" for me as to which is heavier duty.   But again the Ariens is about $500-$700 cheaper but it has a long cycle time and less quality parts etc... But it is American made!  Again its all about your budget and wants/needs.

thinkxingu - Thanks for the welcome.  Well I guess that tells you something if a store sells a couple of brands and only rents another brand and not the brand(s) they sell....  I am guessing with the longevity and rental abuse the other splitters dont hold up as well.   

Mike


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## cmnash (Dec 22, 2010)

Maybe 'cause it didn't directly answer your question, but I'm surprised nobody mentioned Timberwolf splitters, made in Vermont. I just bought one after much research and advice from local sawmill and firewood dealers.

Not cheap by any means but a very tough impressive machine. Should last me the rest of my wood burning years.


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## jlove1974 (Dec 22, 2010)

hard aground said:
			
		

> Maybe 'cause it didn't directly answer your question, but I'm surprised nobody mentioned Timberwolf splitters, made in Vermont. I just bought one after much research and advice from local sawmill and firewood dealers.
> 
> Not cheap by any means but a very tough impressive machine. Should last me the rest of my wood burning years.



Okay I will offer an analogy:

MTD = Chevy/Ford

Huskee/Speeco = Toyota/Honda/Nissan

Brave/Iron Oak= Lexus/Acura/Cadillac

Timberwolf = Maybach/Bentley and priced like one


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## Nic36 (Dec 22, 2010)

Haha.

I've never owned anything but Toyotas, so I guess my Huskee was the right choice.


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## jlove1974 (Dec 22, 2010)

double post


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## jlove1974 (Dec 22, 2010)

Nic36 said:
			
		

> Haha.
> 
> I've never owned anything but Toyotas, so I guess my Huskee was the right choice.



As long as it doesn't automatically stick in the extended lever position you'll be fine 

just watch those pesky floormats


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## Nic36 (Dec 22, 2010)

Yep, a runaway wood splitter would not be good.


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## richg (Dec 22, 2010)

jlove1974 said:
			
		

> hard aground said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It's appalling how you relegate American cars to lowest-quality status. I guess you haven't seen recent quality surveys, including JD Power, which rated Ford and Chevy over Toyota.


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## jlove1974 (Dec 22, 2010)

richg said:
			
		

> jlove1974 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You must be a UAW worker lol. I own GMs and Fords, and JD Power means squat when you speedometer breaks after 75K miles on a $40K truck (GM recall...)


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## DanCorcoran (Dec 22, 2010)

And here I thought Cadillac was an American car?


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## richg (Dec 23, 2010)

Oh my god, call out the National Guard, a speedomenter broke at 75k miles and was covered under a recall? Oh the pain, the pain! Try this: google "Toyota Rav4 engine sludge" and see what you find. Cliff notes version: no matter who frequently owners were changing the oil, a thick sludge would develop in Rav4 engines which caused complete failure necessitating engine replacement. Toyota refused to issue a recall (sound familiar?) and claimed that the sludge was due to lack of maintenence. 

the point being, American cars have improved tremendously in quality and the once-vaunted Japanese brands have slipped. Adn back to the original topic, I'm in the market for a splitter and since me and two buddies are splitting the bill, we're looking at Iron & Oak models instead of Chinese-made junk.


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## SolarAndWood (Dec 23, 2010)

jlove1974 said:
			
		

> MTD = Chevy/Ford
> 
> Huskee/Speeco = Toyota/Honda/Nissan
> 
> ...



If I was shopping for a splitter, I would be looking for a used International single axle dump with a dt466 and a 2 speed rear end.  FWIW, my 10 year old Chevy 3/4 ton works a lot better than my 2 year old MTD snowblower.

To the OP, how much are you splitting and what is it?  The free stuff I get my hands on heats my splitter up pretty good.  But, if you are only splitting half a cord of straight Ash or Cherry at a time anyway, I'd save some money and get one of the big box store 20 tons.


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## jlove1974 (Dec 23, 2010)

DanCorcoran said:
			
		

> And here I thought Cadillac was an American car?


As someone told me recently, your reason and logic don't apply to this thread


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## New Fire Guy (Dec 23, 2010)

Thank you for all of the feedback everyone.  My lot is full of white oak, much of which will be coming down and ultimately split and burned.  So at least initially, I will need a splitter to handle white oak.  Actually, a local tree service is here at my house this morning cutting down three white oaks and a hemlock that I am afraid to mess with, as they are too close to the house.  

I am just getting into wood burning having had a Jutol 550 installed three weeks ago.  Non-stop burning, love it.  My wife thinks spending $1,500-$2,000 on a splitter is overkill at this point.  I initially was looking at little electrics... but after spending some time reading posts on this site, I think a larger gas powered until is the way to go.  I have always followed a belief that, it you can swing the $$, buy high quality heavy duty and you will usually not be disappointed.  I think I need to lay eyes on some of the splitters talked about in this string to be able to get a real feel for the difference in the quality / heavy duty v. light duty.  Up to this point, I have only seen pictures on the web... and a neighbor has a MTD.

Sitting here now at the kitchen table watching the tree service guys using their monster equipment... I want the Iron & Oak.  Now need to scrounge the $$ and convince the wife.  Any recommendations on convincing the wife?


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## jlove1974 (Dec 23, 2010)

New Fire Guy said:
			
		

> Thank you for all of the feedback everyone.  My lot is full of white oak, much of which will be coming down and ultimately split and burned.  So at least initially, I will need a splitter to handle white oak.  Actually, a local tree service is here at my house this morning cutting down three white oaks and a hemlock that I am afraid to mess with, as they are too close to the house.
> 
> I am just getting into wood burning having had a Jutol 550 installed three weeks ago.  Non-stop burning, love it.  My wife thinks spending $1,500-$2,000 on a splitter is overkill at this point.  I initially was looking at little electrics... but after spending some time reading posts on this site, I think a larger gas powered until is the way to go.  I have always followed a belief that, it you can swing the $$, buy high quality heavy duty and you will usually not be disappointed.  I think I need to lay eyes on some of the splitters talked about in this string to be able to get a real feel for the difference in the quality / heavy duty v. light duty.  Up to this point, I have only seen pictures on the web... and a neighbor has a MTD.
> 
> Sitting here now at the kitchen table watching the tree service guys using their monster equipment... I want the Iron & Oak.  Now need to scrounge the $$ and convince the wife.  Any recommendations on convincing the wife?



Sure thing. I would tell her "Honey lets go shopping at the mall, and oh by the way on the return trip lets stop by the Iron and Oak dealer" 

Seriously, I would look into woodsplitters direct. Free shipping, a REALLY good price on the 22-ton, and now we know the owner


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## Trktrd (Dec 23, 2010)

I'm perfectly happy with my 22 ton speeco. Nothing it can't handle (so far). I have read a few posts here that are not particularly fond of the "vertical shaft lawnmower engine" but I tend to differ. These motors are a dime a dozen and can be changed in no time flat. I think the hydraulics and frame are the important part. Just MHO.


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## jlove1974 (Dec 23, 2010)

Trktrd said:
			
		

> I'm perfectly happy with my 22 ton speeco. Nothing it can't handle (so far). I have read a few posts here that are not particularly fond of the "vertical shaft lawnmower engine" but I tend to differ. These motors are a dime a dozen and can be changed in no time flat. I think the hydraulics and frame are the important part. Just MHO.



I would rather not have to change out the engine as frequently by getting a higher quality one intially. The Briggs and Stratton Vanguard 205cc horizontal engine is as proven as the Honda GX series. However, I can't say the same about the B&S 190cc vertical shaft pushmower engine. Even the honda engines on the huskee/speecos have been recalled due to gas-tank and emissions issues in 2008.

Having recently worked on one of the Briggs vertical shaft engines on a northstar, I can say without a doubt that putting this engine on any splitter is a cost-cutting
move. You had better become proficient at running it completely out of gas or using blue ethanol-rated Sta-bil fuel stabilizer. The float bowl on a 18-month old engine was completely gunked up. I know this is not the fault of the engine but the design of everything from air cleaner to the pull-start was completely low-buck


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## jlove1974 (Dec 23, 2010)

also the Briggs vanguard comes with a New 3 year global commercial engine warranty.

Just saying.... you get what you pay for


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## pdhowell (Dec 23, 2010)

If you are a homeowner, splitting withing cord length of a 230 volt outlet, 30 amp, like a drier, the Ramsplitter electrics are a possibility for you.  They store in the space of a lawnmower, can be moved by hand with some effort.  Quiet, instant start, no gas engine hassles. Mine, at 3000 psi, per builder's OK is the  same splitting pressure as 4 inch ram on typical mass market splitter. It was about the same price as Speeco.  My motor is a capacitor start, capacitor run, such as found on a heavy compressor, but with with a service factor of 1.2.  The build/component quality is good.  I think it is a welding shop that actually builds them.  They use a box beam instead of an H/I beam, so look unsubstantial, but I tried to measure beam flex at bypass pressure, and could not get a measurement.  When out the woodlot, I use it off a generator.  Maybe this helps.


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## New Fire Guy (Dec 23, 2010)

For those that have been watching prices longer than I have, can I expect find a better deal than $1,775.96 (plus free shipping) on a new Iron & Oak 22 Ton 6HP Briggs Vanguard Log Splitter [WSBHVH2209-VAN]?


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## RobC (Dec 24, 2010)

These are nice splitters. I was pointing out that they have some trade shows coming up, 1 in CT and another in Western MA. You may be to work a deal with taking home a show splitter so they don't have to take one back to VT.
http://www.timberwolfcorp.com/calendar/


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## Splitter77 (Dec 28, 2010)

New Fire Guy said:
			
		

> For those that have been watching prices longer than I have, can I expect find a better deal than $1,775.96 (plus free shipping) on a new Iron & Oak 22 Ton 6HP Briggs Vanguard Log Splitter [WSBHVH2209-VAN]?



I would say your not going to even find it that cheap for very much longer.    Prices have not changed for 2 years out of Iron & Oak and the chances of them going down when they price them out for 2011 are pretty slim..


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## yanksforever (Dec 30, 2010)

Iron and Oak is one fine splitter. I know...I own one. The difference from the others...like a hundai to a lexus.


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