# Econo Burn, eko, or tarm



## knteriele (May 12, 2008)

I am goint to purchase a gasifier and am  wondering the pros and cons.  Tarm I understand you need dry, 6 inch wood to burn well, is this true for all of them?  I see econo burn is coming out with a outdoor unit in May, I am thinking of this.  I read EKO has a great control system, is this true?  I am most likely going to hook it to my oil burner and maybe get a storage tank down the road.  I also heard of fireboxes burning out of tarms, but they did a redesign, is this so?  Do some models work better than others with larger wood or n? Do any work with green wood or a little bit wet?I am just getting into this and would like your input.  Are these companies good companies and here to stay ? I'd like to see the EKO you have, I work in Middlebury.


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## Eric Johnson (May 12, 2008)

Welcome to the Boiler Room, knteriele.

Tarm has the longest track record. We have a number of Tarm users here who can answer your specific questions. Imported from Denmark.

EKOs have been on the market here in the U.S. for a few years. Very good reviews all around. I'm very happy with mine. Imported from Poland.

Econoburn is the newest member of the lineup. Made in the USA by a longstanding and very reputable boiler mfg. (Dunkirk/Utica).

All three operate pretty much the same way, from what I can see. As far as I know, they all require very dry wood to start, and pretty dry wood to run well.

Good luck in your research. You should be able to find threads here covering all three brands, written by actual users.

A couple of other brands of similar design to consider are BioMax (Poland) and Wood Gun (USA).


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## Nofossil (May 12, 2008)

From what I've seen, the manufacturers try to make them seem more different than they are. Some dealers have made claims that overstate the differences. As an example, it's true that model X will burn green wood. If you put in very much of it, you won't like the results regardless of the brand.

They all seem pretty decent. The more important difference may be the quality of support that you get from your dealer. I've talked to some that are outstanding and will help you with a lot of issues beyond just getting a boiler.


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## Smurfberry (Oct 6, 2009)

I currently own a Econoburn Gasifier and we are pretty happy with it.  I looked at several before deciding on econoburn.  The big problem that we have with this boiler is the company.  They do not have very good customer service and you feel like you are on your own.  There are a few little design flaws that I hope they are going to fix.  If you cut your own wood like I do you will have to play with the air inlet often as the temperature changes.  I have been trying to design a damper that would be controlled by the water temperature like you find on some indoor wood boilers.  One really nice feature of this stove is we do not burn much wood.  We have a 1350 sq ft house built in 1980, and with infloor radiant heat we burn a little over 10 face cord a year.  And we tend to start our stove around the end of Sept and burn for heat until the end of May.  Depending on how we feel we may burn the boiler all summer for hot water.  I hope this helps.  Feel free to contact me if you have more questions.


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## stee6043 (Oct 6, 2009)

You'll find countless posts on all of the models you've mentioned and then some.  For me the decision was between the Tarm and the EKO after quite a lot of research.  The controls are ultimately what pushed me to the EKO and I've been quite happy with it.

If you have the room you may want to consider the Garn as well.  Especially if thermal storage is in your future.  Those are pretty slick units if you have the room...


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## pybyr (Oct 6, 2009)

Smurfberry said:
			
		

> I currently own a Econoburn Gasifier and we are pretty happy with it.  <snip > The big problem that we have with this boiler is the company.  They do not have very good customer service and you feel like you are on your own.  There are a few little design flaws that I hope they are going to fix. <snip> I have been trying to design a damper that would be controlled by the water temperature like you find on some indoor wood boilers.



If you think that a gasifier would benefit from one of those water-temp-controlled air dampers such as were often found on pre/ non gasification boilers, then you aren't really understanding how gasifiers work and why they are more efficient.  If you put one of those older-type water-temp air controls on your Econoburn, you will have created an extra expensive non-gasifier, or at best, a less efficient boiler than what you have now.  

My experience in dealing with the company has been the opposite of yours- when I have called them with clearly-framed questions, I have received prompt and very informative answers.  But if you are asking them how to make a gasifier act more like a pre-gasifier, then they won't be able to help much.

I've been very happy with my unit so far.  Its simplicity and sturdiness (and workmanship), and effectiveness/ efficiency in use are all very, very good good.  Which is not to say that the Tarms or EKOs that I have seen in any way seem bad.  Each seem to have a few features and trade offs that might make one person prefer "one flavor" over another- but you won't go too wrong with any.  I've looked at the Tarms and EKOs and I, personally, prefer my Econoburn for certain reasons, even though it can (like most items) have potential for improvement.  

It's a bit like which brand of pickup you drive (GM/ Ford/ Dodge/ Toyota) -- each person may prefer one, and may have reason to prefer one [some things promoted as "features" for some users may have distinct drawbacks for other users (vehicular example/ analogy - I detest rear disc brakes in VT- in theory, they are more advanced and effective, but they often quickly ruin themselves from winter sand and salt)] but the people who go around with stickers saying that the others are worthless are, in my opinion, manifesting something not associated with the merits of the products...


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## jebatty (Oct 6, 2009)

As a Tarm user, now in my third heating season with the Solo 40, I second the various comments above as to quality of the various brands. The Tarm is a very solid, well made, efficient and easy to use boiler, in my experience. As to your comment on fireboxes burning out, your statement is the first time I have heard that. Tarm's warranty is 20 or 25 years, I forget which. Of course improper use of any gasser or not providing return water protection can cause problems, regardless of the brand. I have no regrets as to my purchase, but I will tell you more in 15 years.


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## Smurfberry (Oct 6, 2009)

pybyr said:
			
		

> Smurfberry said:
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I don't want to make it a pre-gasifier,  I just don't want to have to play with the air inlet so much.  I thought if it did it for me automatically it would be more efficient.  On a cold night we have to open up the air to keep up with heating demand and on a warmer day we have to close the air so the stove does not overheat and shut down.  A technician from Econoburn did say this was ok for the boiler to shut down, but I have found that instead of the fine dust that I get as ash normally I end up with clumps of coal in the bottom door.  Do you have any tips on how to avoid this instead of having a water-temp-controlled thermostat regulate the air intake?


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## Huskurdu (Oct 6, 2009)

I purchased my Eburn used and once I re-set all of the factory settings on the main air and secondary air inlets I haven't had to change them.  I don't know why you would have to move them at all.....I only ever get dry ash in the bottom chamber and my wood isn't at an 'ideal' moisture content.  Is your wood dry (20% m/c or less)?  
     From what I understand....the pie shaped piece on the fan's squirrel cage can be opened at least 1/3 to full open without any major change in burn.  The change lies in the secondary air inlet setting.  If the secondary air inlet is set too low (tight, too far closed, whatever you call it) then I would guess that is your problem with improper burning.  This would cause a rich mixture and would mpt give that really cool flame in the bottom chamber.  This is just a guess though.  Mine was mis-set by previous owner and I burned a butt-load of wood the first year.  It seems better now.
     My experience with Eburn's C/S has been over the top especially considering that I bought mine second hand and installed it myself.  Unlike Trevor, I'm unable to supply a "clearly-framed" question (ever) and they were still more than happy to answer my newbie questions   
     I hope my ramblings help and I hope you get yours figured out.


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## flyingcow (Oct 6, 2009)

As you can see, they're very close in comparison.  BUT, figure to have 2 yrs wood ahead. Suffer thru the first year with what you got for wood , but put next years wood up now(if you have to borrow to buy 2 yrs worth of wood, it'll be worth it). And stay ahead of it. Even if you decide to do a OWB, burning dry wood will mean LESS usage per year. By the way, I've had excellent service with the tarm. Also.....look at the Froling. Cool unit.


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## Smurfberry (Oct 7, 2009)

I only get clumps of coal if the boiler shuts down.  If I can keep the temp under 190 so it won't shut down then I get the good powder.  I had to play with the secondary air when I first got it, but have not had to touch it since.  I only have to change the primary air depending on the heat load that is required.  I have no idea what moisture my wood is.  I try to get it as dry as I can, and I can tell when I have some wet stuff because I get really sticky creosote.  I see you have a reserve tank.  I'm starting to think that I need to get one of them.  Any comments on reserve tanks?


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## flyingcow (Oct 7, 2009)

Love the tank. makes life alittle easier.
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Might want to spend a few minutes figuring how dry your wood is.If you got some thats drier than others, mix and match.


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## Singed Eyebrows (Oct 7, 2009)

Hi Knteriele; I follow a lot of heavy hitters on this thread. If you have a decent amount of pressure storage I don't think you will need to worry about regulating the air so much & if you don't run storage that is what will probably happen. Storage should not be an afterthought, this is part of your boiler. My Atmos has an old time Sampson control in addition to the standard fan & controller. The Sampson/Braukman is not necessary if running into storage.  If you absolutly need to have a boiler with both the Atmos is setup like this. I like Tarms because the steel from that part of the world tends to be top quality. They are all very good boilers though, as I've read. Good luck on a tough choice, Randy


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## willworkforwood (Oct 7, 2009)

Welcome to the forum, knteriele. You've come to the right place for good information about gassers. This is basically a bunch of boiler owners who get and give advice.  There are some pros here also, but you don't get a big sales pitch. What you do get is a lot of excellent (free!) advice from the hydronics gurus. I'm in my second year with Econoburn, and am very happy with that decision. But again, there are many good choices - you will see almost no negative feedback on the brands mentioned in this thread.  And almost everything negative is related to installation or user mistakes.  No matter what you wind up with, I'll urge you to use only seasoned wood. I tried to "stretch" my boiler through the Spring with poorly seasoned wood, and as a result, learned way more than I ever wanted to about cleaning creosote from heat tubes. However, that was not the boilers fault. The second thing I would recommend is to install the boiler in your basement if at all possible. You may have a big project getting it in, but the convenience of loading inside is huge, especially if you don't have storage and burn smaller fires. Spend as much time as you can reading previous threads - you can get most of your questions answered just by searching for topics. Do your homework, gather information, and ask questions here to fill in the missing pieces. Good luck with your project!


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## DBoon (Oct 7, 2009)

> I currently own a Econoburn Gasifier and we are pretty happy with it.  I looked at several before deciding on econoburn.  The big problem that we have with this boiler is the company.  They do not have very good customer service and you feel like you are on your own.  There are a few little design flaws that I hope they are going to fix.  If you cut your own wood like I do you will have to play with the air inlet often as the temperature changes.  I have been trying to design a damper that would be controlled by the water temperature like you find on some indoor wood boilers.  One really nice feature of this stove is we do not burn much wood.  We have a 1350 sq ft house built in 1980, and with infloor radiant heat we burn a little over 10 face cord a year.  And we tend to start our stove around the end of Sept and burn for heat until the end of May.  Depending on how we feel we may burn the boiler all summer for hot water.  I hope this helps.  Feel free to contact me if you have more questions.



Hi Smurfberry - I have about the same size house as you in the same kind of climate.  Do you have a thermal storage tank with your system?  How much did it cost including installation?


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## pybyr (Oct 7, 2009)

Long story slightly shorter (I am not naturally talented at that)--

In my experience so far with an EBW 150-

you can fool with the air inlet settings a lot, and some of it will seem better for one part of the burn or one batch of wood than another (what seems great with one species or level of dryness or early/ late stage of the burn may be disappointing with another). 

My EBW did wonderfully with relatively well seasoned wood.  It did very OK with some wood that I got out of the woods barely in time for the last heating season or before snow flew.  The latter built up a lot more fly ash in the bottom chamber and flue pipe than the good wood.  This is not the fault of any boiler (I can only imagine the black bubblegum goo I'd have produced in a non-gasifier).


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## Smurfberry (Oct 7, 2009)

DBoon said:
			
		

> > I currently own a Econoburn Gasifier and we are pretty happy with it.  I looked at several before deciding on econoburn.  The big problem that we have with this boiler is the company.  They do not have very good customer service and you feel like you are on your own.  There are a few little design flaws that I hope they are going to fix.  If you cut your own wood like I do you will have to play with the air inlet often as the temperature changes.  I have been trying to design a damper that would be controlled by the water temperature like you find on some indoor wood boilers.  One really nice feature of this stove is we do not burn much wood.  We have a 1350 sq ft house built in 1980, and with infloor radiant heat we burn a little over 10 face cord a year.  And we tend to start our stove around the end of Sept and burn for heat until the end of May.  Depending on how we feel we may burn the boiler all summer for hot water.  I hope this helps.  Feel free to contact me if you have more questions.
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Smurfberry - I have about the same size house as you in the same kind of climate.  Do you have a thermal storage tank with your system?  How much did it cost including installation?



I purchased my boiler at the Empire Farm Days and let them use it as a display at the Woodsman's Field Days in Boonville so I got a good deal on it.  I have a 150 and paid $6,545.  I don't know what the installation cost was because I put in an new heating system at the same time.  The entire project cost $14,897 and I did a lot of the work myself.  I put in the in-floor radiant heat.  I didn't have the near by salesman install the stove because he couldn't get to for a long time, and he never returns calls so I gave up on him.  I do not have a thermal storage tank, but I'm wondering if I need to get one.  I e-mailed the salesman to get more information, but I think I'm going to have to call right to econoburn to get the information.


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## Smurfberry (Oct 7, 2009)

pybyr said:
			
		

> Long story slightly shorter (I am not naturally talented at that)--
> 
> In my experience so far with an EBW 150-
> 
> ...



Do you still have to play with the air with your water storage?


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## pybyr (Oct 8, 2009)

Smurfberry said:
			
		

> pybyr said:
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I did not have my storage hooked up to the boiler last season (the boiler's first burn was 1-15-09). I am in the midst of the very final stages of piping, and then, after a first run-up in the temperature to make sure all's well at full heat, putting the insulation around it.  

After a moderate amount of experimenting with different settings last January during the first few weeks of my use of the Econoburn 150, I went back to the factory settings (wide open) for the blower's "pie slice inlet adjustment."  I found that some settings of that gate would produce a more "vivid" flame during some parts of the burn or with some batches of wood, but that, overall, the "as built" setting seemed to be the best over a range of wood and different phases of the burns.  I may play with it more this winter, but that'll only be out of curiousity, not necessity.

Judging by your mention of the buzzer going off-- and that that's apparently the main thing that's driving your efforts to throttle back the air inlet-- I am almost left wondering whether your unit's Honeywell mechanical aquastat is somehow not connected or set properly. It needs to be set so that it cuts the fan off _well_ below the point at which the buzzer will sound; you need such a "band in between" on account of the fact that even when the fan is cut off by the aquastat, the fire will still be going, and will take some time to "coast down"- during which time it will continue to heat the boiler hotter.  I learned this from experience, after initially thinking that the mechanical aquastat had mainly/ only a 'failsafe' safety role and that it could be set relatively hot. I found (after speaking with the factory) that it was better if I lowered it some (it is now just below 190- though the dial's readout is not exactly precise).  I'd originally had the buzzer go off several times; once I dialed the Honeywell aquastat back, it's never set the buzzer off since.

Here are some prior discussions about the air adjustments on the Econoburn.

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/33778/


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## willworkforwood (Oct 8, 2009)

I can ditto exactly what Trevor says above about the aquastat setting.  I didn't have the time or resources to do the install myself, so I had the dealer do it.  They did a very pro job of piping, including BD, extra shutoffs, spirovent, etc; but they were not "boiler users".  They set the aquastat way too high, and the buzzer was going off all the time.  So I kept dropping it down, finally stopping at 192, which seems to be good.  However, I'm going to experiment with lower settings this year to see what that brings.  I also had read what he said about adjusting the air, so I didn't touch my settings at all - no problems at all with the burn.  And, based on some other good info here, I picked up some thermometers, including a flue probe type.  So, hopefully this year I can be more scientific about figuring out what the boiler is doing - the best my hand can do is +-20 degrees  :lol: 
Norm has a separate thread going about aquastat settings, and hopefully some of the more experienced folks will give their input on that one.  I'm always looking to learn more about this stuff, trying to make the boiler do better (and cut less wood).


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## jebatty (Oct 8, 2009)

FYI - on my Tarm the draft fan shuts down at 185-190F, and depending on the state of the burn, final temp may rise to 190-195F before it starts to fall due to the fire being starved for air. As a practical matter, it's unusual for me to ever be at a draft shut down point, as the boiler burns full bore with storage taking all the heat. It's only when storage starts to get above 160F from bottom of tank (top of tank 190F) which feeds the boiler return that I start to get into possible idling of the boiler.


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## antknee2 (Oct 8, 2009)

Same with my EBW 100 factory air settings , messed around with them at first then went back to stock . The boiler is a super clean burner with fully dry wood and long periods of full throttle operation , they need a steady load and well built system that can deliver all your btu's . I find the best time to use the turbulator cleaner lever is within a minute of starting a new fire and the boiler is relatively cool . I'm going on my second season and have not brushed out the heat exchange tubes . I like a system with low maintenance .
Anthony


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