# Help me not hate my Regency F3100.



## pearlgirl (Nov 16, 2012)

We got a Regency F3100 last winter at the very end of February. After spending $800 a month on oil, we needed something else. (This was $800 a month keeping the thermostat at 62 at the highest, and it was a very mild winter for this area.) We have an antique cookstove in our kitchen, and we supplemented last winter with that, and it made that side of the house awesomely warm with little effort. This made us want to go with a wood stove for the rest of the house. I am completely regretting it right now and hate our stove.

Right now we have over $5000 into this thing counting the stove, install, and all the wood we have purchased and I can't get the room it's in above 70 so far today. (It's almost noon, first reloaded after the overnight burn at 5:30, reloaded again around 9:00, and right now it's over 40F outside.) 

Our house is 3000 square feet, and we thought set up ideally for the woodstove. Even the forced air furnace relies on heat rising, as there are no vents above the first level. Our living room is in the middle of the house. The one end of the living room has a stair case that goes up to a 3 story section of our house, the other end of the living room has 3 steps up to a large landing that has our kitchen, a den, bathroom, and a second set of stairs up to a 2nd story on that side with two bedrooms. So when you look at our house from the front it kind of looks like the letter U. 3 stories up on one side, first floor level in the middle (where the stove is), and a 2 story part on the other side. 

So ideally the living room is roasting out with this huge stove, and the heat rises up and out of this room to heat the other two sections that are higher than this room. Problem is, this room does not get hot. We were told and asked multiple times if we were sure we wanted this big stove in this room that we have it in. It's about a 350 square foot room. We were told repeatedly we'd be sweated out of this room. WE WISH. It's not happening, not even close. 

I have talked to the dealer we bought it from several times. She has an excuse for every single angle that deflects the issues off of them and on to us. Our wood isn't dry, there is a slider in the room the stove is in (we have thermal curtains on it), the temp inside is relative to the temp outside (yeah that's my worry if I can only get 68 when it's 40 out what is going to happen when it's -10?), I could go on and on and on. 

I have a moisture reader. The wood I have been using reads 0%-4% moisture on the end facing the stove (it's in hoop stand) and under 20% on the other end. We bought it seasoned last spring, had it out all summer, covered all fall, and inside now. 

I get the stove going, get it really flaming, the secondary burn kicks in and I let it go a bit longer, the needle on the thermometer goes way up, everything inside is glowing orange even some times. (I don't know temps as I don't exactly trust the thermometer we have, it busted and I put it back together, it's on my list to get a new one.) But without knowing temps, trust me, I know it's hot. I think some times it's too hot. So then I turn the air down and 5-45 minutes later the secondary burn goes out. I can't seem to configure any kind of method that makes a good secondary burn go much longer than that. Some times it goes out right away, usually if I turn the air down too much too fast. I have better luck if I go slower most times but even still if I go too low with the air it will go out. 

I admit it's possible our wood is not seasoned well enough, but I feel strongly it's more than that. Even if the wood has some moisture it's not green, and I burn it hot to get it going and the stove gets really hot and the secondary burn happens so doesn't the moisture cook out at first? How does it affect what happens after that? 

It seems like the stove gets really hot, it gets flaming great, the secondary burn gets going great and if I were to leave the air open we'd be getting lots of heat and it'd be super warm, but the stove would easily, quickly, start to over fire. So I have to turn the air down, but when I do that the stove starts to cool, the secondary burn doesn't last very long at all, and then I just end up with a smouldering small flame or two fire that barely keeps the room warm. Where is the happy medium that makes my house warm?

If you got this far GOD BLESS YOU!

Sarah


----------



## corey21 (Nov 16, 2012)

Re split a peace of that wood and test it on a fresh split with your meter.


----------



## begreen (Nov 16, 2012)

Greetings Sarah. This does sound like a case of partially seasoned wood, though you are pushing the limits of this stove with that amount of square footage. To test the wood moisture you need to check the core not the end grain. Take an axe or maul and resplit a few splits of wood. Then place your moisture meter on the freshly exposed inner surface of the wood. That will give you a much more accurate reading. If this is oak, it needs a couple years to fully season.

Definitely pick up a new thermometer asap so that you have some accurate temps. And take heart, the house may not be at 80F, but even at 70F you are saving oil and a lot warmer than 62F. When it drops to 10F, run both stoves.


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 16, 2012)

Hi. Thanks for your quick responses. I feel frustrated to hear we are pushing the limits of the stove, because it's advertised for 3500 square feet, and we do have less, and the square footage is layered basically in two sections of the house, where heat will rise up through it. Plus of course we went into the dealer telling them what we wanted to do, and it's sounding like the sold us the wrong thing. Our flooring on the 3 story side is hard wood floors only, one layer of basically 2 x 4. No carpet, or drywall or anything. I understand that when it gets really cold it might not be enough to totally do it with a house this big, but it's November, it's 40 out and it's not doing it. I really truly hope that it's the wood. We will split some of the stuff we are using and see what it says.


----------



## TTigano (Nov 16, 2012)

Sarah, in what state are you located?  Regency makes a great product and I'm also suspecting the wood.  Do as the others said and split a piece and check moisture readings on the fresh side of the split.  I bought my stove last year as well (Hampton is the cast iron product of Regency)... I also had problems with what I thought was the stove and it was the wood... Outside splits were reading 20% on the moisture meter and the insides were over 50%... That was the problem... Also, with the stove getting really hot and with a raging fire, you should have the secondaries going NUTS when you shut the air off.. At least that's when mine burn great.. If you are suspect of the wood at all, go down to the local supermarket and as high cost as it is, buy a bundle of the kiln dried firewood they sell.  Also, you could try the bio brick compressed hardwood sawdust logs they sell at Tractor Supply... If you use those... be very careful as they burn EXTREMELY HOT.... Once you make sure you have the correct fuel and learn to use the stove to burn nicely, think about how you can move the air around the house... If you have any ceiling fans, put them in reverse on the lowest setting possible.  It will begin to get the air moving by natural convection.  Also, a small floor fan on low blowing towards the stove has always helped me out as well.  Goodluck and keep us up to what's happening.... This site is great and will help you get through this hurdle.


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 16, 2012)

Hi, thanks TTigano! I am in upstate NY. I do get the secondary burn going nuts after I shut down the air, it just doesn't last. That's what we're missing I guess. I did buy wood from the store, and it was super easy to shut down the air a lot quicker and the temp actually went UP after I shut down the air which never happens with the wood we have, but that secondary gang busters burn in the tubes still only lasted 1.5 hours with the store bought packs of wood. And it did nothing to help the temps in the room. How long does your going NUTS 2ndary burn usually last?

So far this forum has been awesome. I have been trying to read around and learn. I know there is lots to learn, that is for sure.


----------



## DAKSY (Nov 16, 2012)

That 3100 should be BLOWING you out of that room. As everyone else said, check your wood again. I burned the I3100 for 4 - 5years in NY winters & it was a kick-a$$ heater. Your stove will do a lot towards reducing your $4.00 + per gallon oil dependence.


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 16, 2012)

Exactly DAKSY! That's what we expect and what we want, I guess we just need better wood, which isn't too easy to come by. They don't tell you when you buy your stove you should have started seasoning wood 3 summers ago! 

Is there anything else that could be giving us troubles? Just any other thoughts if say the wood ends up ok? Or better than it seems at first? (Waiting for my husband to get home to split some of the wood.) We already had to have them completely rebuild our chimney as the clearances were not to code, and it was not high enough. We do have creosote IN the box too. Our glass is clean of creosote but has a white film on it that wipes off with water and wet papertowel. (If it's ever cool enough to actually do that!) There is creosote in the back though, above the bricks. You can see it shining back there when the flames are bright enough.


----------



## mfglickman (Nov 16, 2012)

What is your insulation and draft sealing like? My Fireview should heat most of my 2000 sf house but we are very drafty and leaky - having spray foam insulAtion added to the crawlspace and rim joists next week, and we are always sealing, caulking, etc agAinst breezes and drafts...

Oh and with $5K into the setup I'd be asking the dealer for a freebie thermometer and a discount on a cord of wood or pressed bricks!


----------



## begreen (Nov 16, 2012)

pearlgirl said:


> Hi. Thanks for your quick responses. I feel frustrated to hear we are pushing the limits of the stove, because it's advertised for 3500 square feet, and we do have less, and the square footage is layered basically in two sections of the house, where heat will rise up through it. Plus of course we went into the dealer telling them what we wanted to do, and it's sounding like the sold us the wrong thing. Our flooring on the 3 story side is hard wood floors only, one layer of basically 2 x 4. No carpet, or drywall or anything. I understand that when it gets really cold it might not be enough to totally do it with a house this big, but it's November, it's 40 out and it's not doing it. I really truly hope that it's the wood. We will split some of the stuff we are using and see what it says.


 
The stove is listed to heat up to 3000 sq ft, but that is ambiguous because it depends on the house insulation, house layout, climate zone, etc.. This 3000 sq ft maximum can only be achieved with fully seasoned wood. However, if the house is leaky and poorly insulated then it's not the stove. It's hard to heat the outdoors without going very large. Many people need multiple stoves or a wood furnace in this circumstance.

Check the re-split wood and let us know what you find the inner moisture level is.


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 16, 2012)

We are having one of those home energy audits in the morning actually. We are not too drafty per say, but we have two basements, one being a late 1800's cellar. It's COLD down there even in the summer. I can tell the stove is pulling that cool air up, so we have some insulating and sealing to do for sure. We'll see tomorrow what advice they have. I am thinking though that some drafty is good right to supply the stove with air? I honestly have been given the impression that this stove would be such a heat creating beast that we'd probably be "glad" it's a bit drafty or we'd be too hot in here to stand it. Seriously. You should have seen the faces the initial quote guy made, as well as the installers made about this big stove in this room. The thing about our house is that this stove is VERY centrally located. Even though the house is big, the stove is in the middle, and everything it has to heat is up from this room. It's not like the stove is on one end of a 3000 sq ft ranch and we are expecting rooms on the other end to be warm. And it is getting to the places we want, our rooms are not freezing, but I'd prefer 90 in this room and 70 every where else, rather than 70 in this room and lucky to get 60 else where. And again it's only 40 out! 

Thanks so much for all the thoughts and help here. I have been so frustrated by this whole experience!


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 16, 2012)

I do understand. It's just this room is 350 square feet and it's rated for 10 times that. So, I'm not expecting the tropics in January, but....... well let's just hope it's the wood. A wood furnace might have been a better choice, but no one even mentioned it. We were given a hard sell for coal, but really did not want another non-renewable source.

I am running the cookstove today, and it's nice in here, we may have to run both quite a bit, especially when it's really cold. I have some safety concerns about it though, so will have to get those remedied if it's going to be something we depend on. 

I





begreen said:


> The stove is listed to heat up to 3000 sq ft, but that is ambiguous because it depends on the house insulation, house layout, climate zone, etc.. This 3000 sq ft maximum can only be achieved with fully seasoned wood. However, if the house is leaky and poorly insulated then it's not the stove. It's hard to heat the outdoors without going very large. Many people need multiple stoves or a wood furnace in this circumstance.
> 
> Check the re-split wood and let us know what you find the inner moisture level is.


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 16, 2012)

mfglickman said:


> What is your insulation and draft sealing like? My Fireview should heat most of my 2000 sf house but we are very drafty and leaky - having spray foam insulAtion added to the crawlspace and rim joists next week, and we are always sealing, caulking, etc agAinst breezes and drafts...
> 
> Oh and with $5K into the setup I'd be asking the dealer for a freebie thermometer and a discount on a cord of wood or pressed bricks!


 
Well the stove itself with installation was maybe 3400? The rest of the 5K is wood we've got stacked outside. We are trying to at least be prepared for next year, even if this year isn't going to go so well with the wood we have. So, we've got over 25 FC out there right now and want to get at least another 10 in the next couple weeks if we can.


----------



## jeff_t (Nov 16, 2012)

Your secondary burn is only going to last as long as the smoke and other volatiles are there to burn. Once the wood reaches the coaling stage, the secondary show is going to go away. Depending on the size of the load, 1.5 hours may be normal. 

Are you cutting the air back in stages, or going from wide open to shut down?

I agree your fuel is suspect. Lots of NY folks here. Maybe someone is near you and can work out a swap for some dry wood.


----------



## Waulie (Nov 16, 2012)

pearlgirl said:


> I did buy wood from the store, and it was super easy to shut down the air a lot quicker and the temp actually went UP after I shut down the air which never happens with the wood we have, but that secondary gang busters burn in the tubes still only lasted 1.5 hours with the store bought packs of wood.


 
It sure sounds like your wood.  You had much better results (although not perfect) with the store bought wood.  I'm not familiar with that stove, but 1.5 hours of crazy secondaries isn't too terrible.  Maybe you didn't load it up fully?  It's also completely possible that the store bought wood was just "better" than your wood, and not "great".  As I'm sure your learning from reading this site, wet wood seems to be the cause of the vast majority of problems people encounter with EPA stoves.


----------



## Waulie (Nov 16, 2012)

pearlgirl said:


> We are trying to at least be prepared for next year, even if this year isn't going to go so well with the wood we have. So, we've got over 25 FC out there right now and want to get at least another 10 in the next couple weeks if we can.


 
I think you're going to fit right here.


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 16, 2012)

I have done it both ways, cut it right down quick, and in stages. With the dry wood from the grocery store I was basically able to shut the air down all the way, straight off the bat and the 2ndary burn did hold. With the less seasoned wood I can't cut it down quick at all, it just goes out within 3 minutes, so I do it slowly. Some times I think I've got it really hot and it's just going so awesome I should be able to shut it down faster but I can't. 

So here is my question, if the 2ndary burn goes out after 1.5 hours, what do you do then? (The load was 2 of those packs you buy at the store) Or whenever the 2ndary burn stops, what do you do? I mean in the night, we've gone to bed so we aren't there to do anything. Is it safe for it to basically smoulder like that? That is what it's doing at that point right if it's at the coaling stage and there are no flames?

I left a message with a guy claiming to have wood split 2-3 years and under a roof (open sides) the whole time. If I can get it from him I will. Though I think I will ask if we can split a piece first and check it! 



jeff_t said:


> Your secondary burn is only going to last as long as the smoke and other volatiles are there to burn. Once the wood reaches the coaling stage, the secondary show is going to go away. Depending on the size of the load, 1.5 hours may be normal.
> 
> Are you cutting the air back in stages, or going from wide open to shut down?
> 
> I agree your fuel is suspect. Lots of NY folks here. Maybe someone is near you and can work out a swap for some dry wood.[/quote


----------



## begreen (Nov 16, 2012)

If you find the wood is a bit damp on the inside can you move some of it indoors for a few weeks?

When secondary burn ends you are in the coaling stage. There is still a lot of heat given off by the wood. The heat will gradually taper down as the coals give up their heat. In that size stove you should be about 8-10 hrs between reloads, though this time may be shorter when the stove is pushed a bit harder.  This is where having a good thermometer for guidance will help.

Tell us about your safety concerns with the kitchen stove.


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 16, 2012)

Waulie said:


> I think you're going to fit right here.


 
Thank you.  I am glad we are doing some thing right. We really intended to do better this year even, and start buying and stacking when we got the stove, but our son ended up in the hospital for nearly a month last spring and well our whole lives (and bank account) just really got out of whack. But no need to over share, lol, so I'll leave it at that! Next year will be better!


----------



## blades (Nov 16, 2012)

Boy you have a lot of territory for heat to escape 1st level. I will bet you can feel cold air coming down the stairs. How old is the home and how well is it sealed up against infiltration of external air over all?  Do you have the OAK ( outside air intake )hooked up as this will give a bit more positive pressure in the home rather than pulling combustion air solely from with in the home through every  possible leak.  A ceiling fan in the stove room might also help by pushing the heated air down as right now it is running across the ceiling and then up the stairs. For me cold air swirling around my ankles and toes makes me feel like I am in a deep freeze-don't care what the thermostat says. ( I have a 20 ft wide by 100+ deep shop, ceiling starts at 14ft and rises to 22 ft I have one ceiling fan at the peak the amount of heat driven down by it is amazing)


----------



## BrowningBAR (Nov 16, 2012)

I don't see anywhere in this thread where it states what temperature the stove has gotten. How hot are you getting the stove? 300 degrees? 500? 700?

What are your stove top temps?


----------



## jeff_t (Nov 16, 2012)

pearlgirl said:


> So here is my question, if the 2ndary burn goes out after 1.5 hours, what do you do then? (The load was 2 of those packs you buy at the store) Or whenever the 2ndary burn stops, what do you do? I mean in the night, we've gone to bed so we aren't there to do anything. Is it safe for it to basically smoulder like that? That is what it's doing at that point right if it's at the coaling stage and there are no flames?



When you reach that point, the gases escaping the wood are minimal, and there is nothing left to gunk up the chimney. It is said that 50% of the BTUs come from the coaling stage.


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 16, 2012)

BrowningBAR said:


> I don't see anywhere in this thread where it states what temperature the stove has gotten. How hot are you getting the stove? 300 degrees? 500? 700?
> 
> What are your stove top temps?


 
I don't have an accurate stove top thermometer. I know I need to get one.  The baffle bricks were glowing orange last night, so it was hot. It is getting hot, like I said possibly too hot at times.


----------



## Waulie (Nov 16, 2012)

pearlgirl said:


> Thank you.  I am glad we are doing some thing right. We really intended to do better this year even, and start buying and stacking when we got the stove, but our son ended up in the hospital for nearly a month last spring and well our whole lives (and bank account) just really got out of whack. But no need to over share, lol, so I'll leave it at that! Next year will be better!


 
No question next year will better.  You're well on your way!  You will amazed at how much better things are with good, dry wood.

Blades has some good suggestions for moving heat.  A ceiling fan would probably help a lot with your layout.  Also, a small fan on the floor pointed into the stove room or better yet one on each end pointing into the stove room will probably help a lot as well.  Of course, your first problem is creating enough heat to really worry about moving it.  Based on your stoves specs, you should definitely be able to heat that room up easily with good wood.  Whether or not it will really heat your whole house is still a question.  You have a lot of house there.  Regardless, you should be able to substantially reduce your oil needs.


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 16, 2012)

When it is in the coaling stage where should the air be? 



begreen said:


> If you find the wood is a bit damp on the inside can you move some of it indoors for a few weeks?
> 
> When secondary burn ends you are in the coaling stage. There is still a lot of heat given off by the wood. The heat will gradually taper down as the coals give up their heat. In that size stove you should be about 8-10 hrs between reloads, though this time may be shorter when the stove is pushed a bit harder. This is where having a good thermometer for guidance will help.
> 
> Tell us about your safety concerns with the kitchen stove.


----------



## BrowningBAR (Nov 16, 2012)

jeff_t said:


> It is said that 50% of the BTUs come from the coaling stage.


 
Which is only worth a damn if the stove provides enough heat for your area. If the stove is undersized, the coaling stage is not providing your home with enough heat.

Example: The Heritage vs. Defiant in the same room of my house.


----------



## BrowningBAR (Nov 16, 2012)

pearlgirl said:


> I don't have an accurate stove top thermometer. I know I need to get one.  The baffle bricks were glowing orange last night, so it was hot. It is getting hot, like I said possibly too hot at times.


Get a thermometer. Otherwise you are just guessing.

On the one stove, the 30, I can have a ROARING fire and the stove is still heating up and showing 300 degrees stove top. If I cut the air back to fast the stove never gets up to peak temps. As a new burner a thermometer is not an option. It is a must.

Right now you are just guessing as to what the stove is doing.


----------



## Waulie (Nov 16, 2012)

pearlgirl said:


> don't have an accurate stove top thermometer. I know I need to get one.  The baffle bricks were glowing orange last night, so it was hot. It is getting hot, like I said possibly too hot at times.


 
You do definitely need to get a thermometer.  Based on your description that you're only really able to keep the fire going well with the draft open means that while you are creating a lot of heat you are sending a lot of it up the flue.  That's why you noticed the temp go up when you closed the draft with the store bought wood.  You were keeping more heat in the stove.  Glowing fire bricks doesn't necessarily mean you are getting the overall stove hot enough to be really be producing a lot heat in the room.


----------



## BrowningBAR (Nov 16, 2012)

pearlgirl said:


> We are having one of those home energy audits in the morning actually. We are not too drafty per say, but we have two basements, one being a late 1800's cellar. It's COLD down there even in the summer. I can tell the stove is pulling that cool air up, so we have some insulating and sealing to do for sure. We'll see tomorrow what advice they have. I am thinking though that some drafty is good right to supply the stove with air? I honestly have been given the impression that this stove would be such a heat creating beast that we'd probably be "glad" it's a bit drafty or we'd be too hot in here to stand it. Seriously. You should have seen the faces the initial quote guy made, as well as the installers made about this big stove in this room. The thing about our house is that this stove is VERY centrally located. Even though the house is big, the stove is in the middle, and everything it has to heat is up from this room. It's not like the stove is on one end of a 3000 sq ft ranch and we are expecting rooms on the other end to be warm. And it is getting to the places we want, our rooms are not freezing, but I'd prefer 90 in this room and 70 every where else, rather than 70 in this room and lucky to get 60 else where. And again it's only 40 out!
> 
> Thanks so much for all the thoughts and help here. I have been so frustrated by this whole experience!


 

I think you need to admit your old home is a lot more drafty than you think it is. I have a drafty old house as well and my home reacts the same exact way. Where as many other members here barely have the stove going in 40 degree weather, I absolutely need a stove or two going to keep the cold at bay.

Your home is drafty, this is going to be a huge challenge to overcome. At 3,500 sq ft, even when you get the stove working right (and you will), it will not heat your entire home.


----------



## jeff_t (Nov 16, 2012)

BrowningBAR said:


> I think you need to admit your old home is a lot more drafty than you think it is. I have a drafty old house as well and my home reacts the same exact way. Where as many other members here barely have the stove going in 40 degree weather, I absolutely need a stove or two going to keep the cold at bay.
> 
> Your home is drafty and this is going to be a huge challenge to overcome. At 3,500 sq ft, even when you get the stove working right (and you will), it will not heat your entire home.



At an advertised 2.9 cu ft, the F3100 isn't 'that big'.


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 16, 2012)

begreen said:


> Tell us about your safety concerns with the kitchen stove.


 
The concerns there have to do with clearances mostly, something we did not know was amiss until this fall and we had some one out to clean the chimney. We were told by that guy not to use it at all. We have been in this house just a little over a year. I know the people before us used the stove to supplement heat A LOT. So, we did too last winter like I said. It gets a lot of air so it burns pretty hot, (though really nothing compared to the heats the Regency gets) and through wood pretty quickly. It's not too efficient, but it warms up that side of the house and when I am home all day I don't mind messing with it and feeding it wood. It only takes 2 pretty small splits at a time, 1 medium, or 3 really small. The built in thermometer on the oven part of it rarely gets over 250, but that is next to the fire a bit, not right on the part where the wood burns. 

So there is a spot where the pipe is pretty close to a piece of wood shelf, and the guy that was here said the whole stove needs to be moved out away from the wall as well. (I would think though that maybe the wall could be changed? Tiled or something? I can post photos, but please don't berate me for using it, if you think it's hazardous. Helpful suggestions for how to make it better only would be appreciated.


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 16, 2012)

BrowningBAR said:


> I think you need to admit your old home is a lot more drafty than you think it is. I have a drafty old house as well and my home reacts the same exact way. Where as many other members here barely have the stove going in 40 degree weather, I absolutely need a stove or two going to keep the cold at bay.
> 
> Your home is drafty, this is going to be a huge challenge to overcome. At 3,500 sq ft, even when you get the stove working right (and you will), it will not heat your entire home.


 

The one side is old, the living room and 3 story section were built in the late 80's. The old side was also rebuilt, but it is drafty in places, mainly a closet that share an uninsulted wall with the stairs to the cellar.. I don't think it's more drafty than I am admitting. We are having some one out to address the issues it does have. That is also the side of the house we have heated with the cookstove, and have gotten the kitchen up over 80 in the dead of winter. So it's drafty but it can be heated. 

The wood we have is wet. We just split some, and in the middle it was 30-32% humidity. Not horrible.....but too wet for sure. It was a better piece as well, as in the end readings were very low. So I am sure we have some that is much worse. We have another batch in a barn that I am having my husband check now.


----------



## simple.serf (Nov 16, 2012)

Dig though your wood pile and see if you can find some ash. While not ideal, it will burn better when not perfectly dry. (I had to do this last year, epa stove with 30% wood).


----------



## corey21 (Nov 16, 2012)

pearlgirl said:


> The one side is old, the living room and 3 story section were built in the late 80's. The old side was also rebuilt, but it is drafty in places, mainly a closet that share an uninsulted wall with the stairs to the cellar.. I don't think it's more drafty than I am admitting. We are having some one out to address the issues it does have. That is also the side of the house we have heated with the cookstove, and have gotten the kitchen up over 80 in the dead of winter. So it's drafty but it can be heated.
> 
> The wood we have is wet. We just split some, and in the middle it was 30-32% humidity. Not horrible.....but too wet for sure. It was a better piece as well, as in the end readings were very low. So I am sure we have some that is much worse. We have another batch in a barn that I am having my husband check now.


 
I don't think you can heat your house with just one stove.

30% percent is very wet.


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 16, 2012)

corey21 said:


> I don't think you can heat your house with just one stove.


 
Ok!


----------



## firefighterjake (Nov 16, 2012)

Random thoughts . . .

As you have discovered . . . it was the wood. Suggestions to get you through this year would include looking around for kiln dried wood, eco-bricks, seeing if any wood dealers have truly seasoned wood or burn what you've got . . . but use pallets to get the heat up, split the wood smaller and haul it inside to dry out a bit (just don't place the wood on or too close to the stove) . . . and definitely keep an eye on your chimney and creosote levels.

Thermometers for the stove and chimney . . . get 'em. They will help you run the stove more efficiently . . . and more importantly . . . more safely.

Secondaries . . . if you are able to get the chimney temp in the "good zone" try cutting back the air control slowly -- a quarter turn/pull/draw down at a time . . . wait 5-10 minutes to see if the secondaries kick in and the fire continues to burn . . . if all is good try going down another quarter turn . . . most folks are able to get down to about a quarter of the way open . . . sometimes you can go all the way "closed" (it's never truly all the way shut), but generally I find that I only can go all the way closed if my draft is good and the wood is very well seasoned.


----------



## daveswoodhauler (Nov 16, 2012)

All I can say is that I hope for the best for you. It will be interesting to see the results of the home energy audit you have planned...please post back with the findings. (Too bad that you coulnd't have had the audit performed before the stove install, as I am wondering if the monies spent on the stove might have been better suited for insulaton/weatherstripping) Is there any way you could post picks of the house? or floorplan? Good luck


----------



## Waulie (Nov 16, 2012)

They are quite likely correct about heating your whole house.  Rest assured, though, that with better wood you will be able to significantly reduce your oil consumption.

I won't berate you for using the old cook stove.  But, if it is dangerous please don't use it!  Pictures would definitely help and if it is just a clearance issue that can maybe be fixed fairly easily.

As for the wood:  Do you you have space in the stove room to stack a bunch of it (at a safe distance from the stove of course)?  What kind of wood is it?  Also, splitting the larger splits down that will help them dry faster.  If it isn't oak and you can get a bunch stacked in the stove room it will likely be quite a bit better by the time the temps really start dropping in January.  You can also buy some of those biobricks to mix in.

Since you have a chimney over there, maybe replacing the old cook stove with a smaller, more efficient wood stove could be in your future?  I know you probably don't want to think about that right now.


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 16, 2012)

So once I get these thermometers, what temps am I looking for? Would these numbers be different if I have to continue to use this less than optimal wood? (I am working on getting better, the guy I left the message with earlier just called me back and I should be getting some better wood from him in the next few days. Hopefully it really is better!)


----------



## BrowningBAR (Nov 16, 2012)

pearlgirl said:


> So once I get these thermometers, what temps am I looking for? Would these numbers be different if I have to continue to use this less than optimal wood? (I am working on getting better, the guy I left the message with earlier just called me back and I should be getting some better wood from him in the next few days. Hopefully it really is better!)


Test the wood before you buy it.

I believe the Regency is a typical steel stove. That means at the peak of the burn cycle having the stove top at around 600-750 should be just fine, unless someone else knows of a reason this isn't the case for this specific stove. I am willing to bet you have barely gotten the stove to 500 degrees at this point.

You should notice a massive difference when the stove is near the 700 degree mark.


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 16, 2012)

Waulie said:


> Since you have a chimney over there, maybe replacing the old cook stove with a smaller, more efficient wood stove could be in your future? I know you probably don't want to think about that right now.


 
I actually have thought of this very thing! Possibly even a pellet stove as I am not sure I am loving the wood as much as I thought I would  Certainly not the moving and stacking! The big deal would be getting the beast of a cookstove out of there! I can't even imagine.


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 16, 2012)

Got a thermometer, have it on top of the stove, near the front. Have wood that is probably 20-25% moisture after checking it after split, has been going for about any hour since adding it. Air is down 75% I'd say, and stove is reading 650-675 degrees. Temp is up to 73 in room with stove.


----------



## corey21 (Nov 16, 2012)

pearlgirl said:


> I actually have thought of this very thing! Possibly even a pellet stove as I am not sure I am loving the wood as much as I thought I would  Certainly not the moving and stacking! The big deal would be getting the beast of a cookstove out of there! I can't even imagine.


 
You could also consider a coal stove.


----------



## daveswoodhauler (Nov 16, 2012)

Nice - glad to see it getting up to temp and holding. With my insert going all day, it takes about 8 hours for the upper floor bedrooms to go from about 60 to 65 as the stove is on the first floor. It should burn for a while at those temps before you need to reload....maybe add some wood when the thermo gets around 275-300


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 16, 2012)

BrowningBAR said:


> Test the wood before you buy it.
> 
> I believe the Regency is a typical steel stove. That means at the peak of the burn cycle having the stove top at around 600-750 should be just fine, unless someone else knows of a reason this isn't the case for this specific stove. I am willing to bet you have barely gotten the stove to 500 degrees at this point.
> 
> You should notice a massive difference when the stove is near the 700 degree mark.


 
I have absolutely gotten it to 500 degrees. I have started to overfire it honestly, more than once, where there is a slight orange glow on top of the stove right in front of the blower. I am getting this stove hot. The thermometer I have, and have been using, works, it's just "off". Cold it says it's 200 degrees, so right now next to the one I just bought it says 850 and it's really 650. It gets up to 850 or more on the "off" thermometer every time I load it up and get it going. I don't turn it down until it does. So it's been getting hot enough, I just couldn't give you any numbers for sure, and didn't want to really admit that I have started to overfire it before. The one I have been using lets me know when it goes up and down for sure, just the numbers are off like I said. But I just ran to the hardware and got a new one.

I just knocked the air down again, it's holding at 650 so far. My kids are going to think I'm crazy, I keep jumping up to go and look at it!


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 16, 2012)

daveswoodhauler said:


> Nice - glad to see it getting up to temp and holding. With my insert going all day, it takes about 8 hours for the upper floor bedrooms to go from about 60 to 65 as the stove is on the first floor. It should burn for a while at those temps before you need to reload....maybe add some wood when the thermo gets around 275-300


 

Ok! Thank you for the suggestion of when to add wood. I do feel like I am struggling a bit with what to do after the good 2ndary burn happens etc. We are getting a lot of big coals too with the wetter wood which will hopefully be better with better wood too. So I feel like the box fills up fast with crap that doesn't burn if I reload without letting that all burn down which does affect how hot I can keep it.


----------



## BrowningBAR (Nov 16, 2012)

pearlgirl said:


> Got a thermometer, have it on top of the stove, near the front. Have wood that is probably 20-25% moisture after checking it after split, has been going for about any hour since adding it. Air is down 75% I'd say, and stove is reading 650-675 degrees. Temp is up to 73 in room with stove.


Good to hear. Do you have a full load in the stove?

That room should be able to exceed 80 degrees as the burn cycle progresses. If it can not, I would feel draftiness is a big factor here.


----------



## BrowningBAR (Nov 16, 2012)

pearlgirl said:


> I just knocked the air down again, it's holding at 650 so far. My kids are going to think I'm crazy, I keep jumping up to go and look at it!


We all do that.


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 16, 2012)

Ok, with the air turned down a bit more (but not shut the temp started to drop) I opened it back up a bit.


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 16, 2012)

It's a pretty big E/W load, not tightly packed by any means, I put in as much as I could without having to engineer it.


----------



## mfglickman (Nov 16, 2012)

BrowningBAR said:


> That room should be able to exceed 80 degrees as the burn cycle progresses. If it can not, I would feel draftiness is a big factor here.


 
This is how I know my house is drafty. Keep in mind my stove is in a 500 SF room that was built in the 1970's - so it has some insulation and the windows are actually quite nice quality for modern windows...but it's over a crawlspace and the wall insulation is probably not optimal and there are air leaks everywhere - around windows, baseboards, electrical outlets...craziness. The "old" part of the house actually feels more solid, but because it has 2 hearths standing corner to corner next to each other, plus a cooking oven, it's like a wind tunnel.


----------



## velvetfoot (Nov 16, 2012)

A 2.9 cubic foot firebox is not small.


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 16, 2012)

Ok after I opened the air back up a bit, little less than a half hour ago, (so I think it's about down 75% again), the temp has started to drop, it's down to 600 now.

I am hoping this is the wet wood? I feel like it should hold longer than it is. With dryer wood we can close down the air sooner, and won't burn so much of the wood just heating up the stove so it will maintain the 2ndary burn longer?


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 16, 2012)

velvetfoot said:


> A 2.9 cubic foot firebox is not small.


 
LOL Thank you. What is small is the box on my antique cook stove, and that easily heats 1200 square feet of my house! (Admittedly not efficiently) Hence why I am questioning this thing!


----------



## Waulie (Nov 16, 2012)

Sounds like you've got it rolling now!

I still think you're going to see a nice difference even though you've had the stove hot before.  With the wetter wood, you were having to keep the draft open more to keep it going which was sending more heat up the flue.  Even though parts of the stove were hot (maybe too hot), overall you were wasting a lot of heat boiling off all that water in the wood.  With the dry wood you should be able to find a nice cruising spot on the draft which will heat up the whole stove and overall provide much more heat.  Let us know how it goes.

Also, if the far reaches of house house were pretty cool to start, it is going to take a long time to get all that "stuff" up to heat.  I'd be curious to see what things look like come morning if you have enough dry wood and get a nice load in before bed.  I think what you're doing with the draft is good.  Find the spot that makes it hold temp and run it there.  Especially at this hour, I'd run it as hot as is reasonable to warm things up and burn that load down so you can get a nice one in for the night.


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 16, 2012)

mfglickman said:


> This is how I know my house is drafty. Keep in mind my stove is in a 500 SF room that was built in the 1970's - so it has some insulation and the windows are actually quite nice quality for modern windows...but it's over a crawlspace and the wall insulation is probably not optimal and there are air leaks everywhere - around windows, baseboards, electrical outlets...craziness. The "old" part of the house actually feels more solid, but because it has 2 hearths standing corner to corner next to each other, plus a cooking oven, it's like a wind tunnel.


 
PS: mfglickman LOVE the picture of your dogs! So cute. We have two yellows labs and little poodle mix. I love how the stove puts them in a coma! LOL It does do that well, they have no qualms about laying right in front of it and snoozing.

76 in here now, but stove has started it's decent.


----------



## Waulie (Nov 16, 2012)

pearlgirl said:


> Ok after I opened the air back up a bit, little less than a half hour ago, (so I think it's about down 75% again), the temp has started to drop, it's down to 600 now.
> 
> I am hoping this is the wet wood? I feel like it should hold longer than it is. With dryer wood we can close down the air sooner, and won't burn so much of the wood just heating up the stove so it will maintain the 2ndary burn longer?


 
We were posting at the same time.  I didn't see where the temp was already dropping.  Dropping a little bit should be OK, but it should find a happy place and hold steady for a couple hours at least.  What does the fire look like?


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 16, 2012)

Waulie said:


> We were posting at the same time. I didn't see where the temp was already dropping. Dropping a little bit should be OK, but it should find a happy place and hold steady for a couple hours at least. What does the fire look like?


 
It's dropped to 525 and almost no visible flame


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 16, 2012)

A little bit of blue flame coming off one of the back logs, other wise no flame. The box is barely glowing orange when I look across the room, when I get close to it the underside of the logs is glowing orange but that's all that's going on.


----------



## Waulie (Nov 16, 2012)

pearlgirl said:


> It's dropped to 525 and almost no visible flame


 
That doesn't seem right to me. Do you still have a bunch of solid wood in there or is it looking like split-shaped coals?


----------



## BrowningBAR (Nov 16, 2012)

In the room with the stove, do you feel cold air coming in from the other rooms?


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 16, 2012)

Waulie said:


> That doesn't seem right to me. Do you still have a bunch of solid wood in there or is it looking like split-shaped coals?


 
Probably split shaped coals. I could probably break the logs up pretty easily at this point. At least into thirds, some smaller coals and some bigger hunks.


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 16, 2012)

BrowningBAR said:


> In the room with the stove, do you feel cold air coming in from the other rooms?


 
Not where I am, no. That does happen some times though. Right now the one side is warm from the cook stove, this is the first time we've run it this year. Room temp is stalled at 76 in here a high for today, it's mid 70's on the one side of the house that is older and more drafty due to the cookstove, not feeling any coolness from there.


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 16, 2012)

500 and absolutely no flame


----------



## BrowningBAR (Nov 16, 2012)

Pack the bastard full, gut it roaring, and see what you've got going on for burn times.

If the stove isn't heating your area unless it is roaring and over 500 degrees, that means you are dealing with a drafty home and an undersized stove.

The problem is, the 3100 is not a small stove and there aren't many options out there that will be large enough to make a difference. The Blaze King King and Equinox are the only others, but they require 8" exhaust.

If you have the means, insult the hell out of the place.


----------



## BrowningBAR (Nov 16, 2012)

pearlgirl said:


> 500 and absolutely no flame


Nothing wrong with that. 500 should be providing your area with plenty of heat. If it is not, well, you already know what I think the true problem is.


----------



## Waulie (Nov 16, 2012)

It does seem like it went to the coaling stage pretty fast, which is surprising since it never really got that hot.  I really have no experience with this stove, but it sure seems like it should be burning hotter if it's burning through that much wood that fast.  See what it does for awhile with those coals.

Do you know if that load was softwood or hardwood?


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 16, 2012)

475 opened the air back up all the way, got a little bit of blue flame back off a log in the back, everything is glowing orange on the bottom again.


----------



## Pallet Pete (Nov 16, 2012)

Welcome to hearth pearlgirl. There is not much I can add given what has been said already but I hope you figure it out. This is certainly the right place to come for help.

Good Luck
Pete


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 16, 2012)

I t





Waulie said:


> It does seem like it went to the coaling stage pretty fast, which is surprising since it never really got that hot. I really have no experience with this stove, but it sure seems like it should be burning hotter if it's burning through that much wood that fast. See what it does for awhile with those coals.
> 
> Do you know if that load was softwood or hardwood?


 
I truly do not know. I believe we bought it as seasoned hard wood, but honestly we have been so desperate to buy seasoned wood we have picked up FC all over the place here and there and I am not sure what we were told this was. I know I need to know how to tell the different kinds of wood, but I am not totally there yet. This didn't have much bark either. They were VERY big pieces that I think actually were pretty seasoned for their size when we got them. We have had them in an open ended barn all summer and they are probably the driest batch we have. My husband has been splitting the big pieces. 

I think the stove got hotter than the 650-675 I said it was. That reading was after it had been turned down already. I had it going when I left for the store to get the therm, and I turned it down about 1/2 before I left and my dh turned it down another 1/4 while I was gone. So it probably burned up more in the beginning than you are thinking based on what I said when I got the thermometer on there.


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 16, 2012)

Pallet Pete said:


> Welcome to hearth pearlgirl. There is not much I can add given what has been said already but I hope you figure it out. This is certainly the right place to come for help.
> 
> Good Luck
> Pete


 

Thanks, I appreciate it! Love the wood shed in your picture! I have been day dreaming of some thing similar and looking up plans online!


----------



## BrowningBAR (Nov 16, 2012)

Waulie said:


> It does seem like it went to the coaling stage pretty fast, which is surprising since it never really got that hot. I really have no experience with this stove, but it sure seems like it should be burning hotter if it's burning through that much wood that fast. See what it does for awhile with those coals.
> 
> Do you know if that load was softwood or hardwood?


Took about two hours. Seems about right to me.


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 16, 2012)

Waulie said:


> It does seem like it went to the coaling stage pretty fast, which is surprising since it never really got that hot.


 
I really think I have been getting this stove really hot (despite some opinions to the contrary) and it seems that I am burning up a lot of the wood doing so because it's too wet. When it comes time to get a 2ndary burn there just is not a lot left in the wood to maintain that for very long and it peters out pretty quick.

Now at this point it will take quite some time to get this crap that's left to burn up, while the stove continues to drop, requiring full air to get it gone while most the heat goes up the chimney, in time to reload for bed. I live this cycle over and over and over again.


----------



## PapaDave (Nov 16, 2012)

First, welcome to the Hearth. You've found the best place possible to get help for your issues.
I'm curious what kind of wood you have. If it's softwood and you're leaving the draft open too long, the wood will be gone before you know it.
Not to beat a dead horse (sorry Dixie), but it takes a LOT of energy to burn/boil off the moisture, and it's not going to heat your house while doing it.
I don't have an EPA stove, but had the same problem you're having when we started burning. Got the fire going great with the door cracked open, then it died as soon as the door was closed. This would go on for a while until the moisture was down, then the stove would take off. By this time, not much was left of the wood and we got poor burn times.
Classic wet wood syndrome. Most of us have been there.
To get rid of the coal excess, rake them to the front of the stove, then lay a smallish piece of wood E/W across them. Give the stove some air, and they'll burn down while adding heat to the space.
Stick around a while, you'll be as batty knowledable as the rest of us.
That's all I got, for now.


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 16, 2012)

BrowningBAR said:


> Took about two hours. Seems about right to me.[/quote
> 
> So it's right that 2 hours after loading my stove it should be 475? I did load it a little before 4:00, so two hours and the temp starts to drop and it's the coals now. What do I do with the air once the flames stop? I asked before and might have missed any answers. Obviously when we are asleep the air just stays dampered down, but if I am sitting here should I also just leave it down or should I open up the air to help burn the coals better?


----------



## BrowningBAR (Nov 16, 2012)

pearlgirl said:


> _So it's right that 2 hours after loading my stove it should be 475? I did load it a little before 4:00, so two hours and the temp starts to drop and it's the coals now. What do I do with the air once the flames stop? I asked before and might have missed any answers. Obviously when we are asleep the air just stays dampered down, but if I am sitting here should I also just leave it down or should I open up the air to help burn the coals better?_


Depending upon how you loaded the stove, it is very possible that this is a normal burn cycle. With the Stove that I have that is very close to your 3100, with a loosely loaded stove that is kind of full, but not really, it is entirely possible to have the stove sitting at 450-525 two hours into the burn.


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 16, 2012)

Well it's been two hours, but the temp started dropping an hour ago.


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 16, 2012)

BrowningBAR said:


> Depending upon how you loaded the stove, it is very possible that this is a normal burn cycle. With the Stove that I have that is very close to your 3100, with a loosely loaded stove that is kind of full, but not really, it is entirely possible to have the stove sitting at 450-525 two hours into the burn.


 
Ok and do I just leave it like that? With the air turned down until it drops down to like 200-300?


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 16, 2012)

PapaDave said:


> First, welcome to the Hearth. You've found the best place possible to get help for your issues.
> I'm curious what kind of wood you have. If it's softwood and you're leaving the draft open too long, the wood will be gone before you know it.
> Not to beat a dead horse (sorry Dixie), but it takes a LOT of energy to burn/boil off the moisture, and it's not going to heat your house while doing it.
> I don't have an EPA stove, but had the same problem you're having when we started burning. Got the fire going great with the door cracked open, then it died as soon as the door was closed. This would go on for a while until the moisture was down, then the stove would take off. By this time, not much was left of the wood and we got poor burn times.
> ...


 
I really think that is what is going on after posting here today, even more so. I am not sure on the wood I just burned, it is something I am ignorant about and this particular wood just came from some guy. Most of our other wood is from a reputable source, that I am more sure is hardwood even if I do not know in particular which, but this particular wood today I do not know.

I have hope that this thing will do a lot more work for us than it is right now, once we have the right wood. I don't have a ton of heat right now but I do have hope! It's some thing! We did read about raking the coals etc, just had our rake come in the mail yesterday actually1


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 16, 2012)

I may grab a few more packs at the grocery store and run another cycle by you all with some good wood. Will keep you posted, and will be back tomorrow to update on the energy efficiency check!

THANK YOU for all the thoughts today!

Sarah


----------



## corey21 (Nov 16, 2012)

pearlgirl said:


> I may grab a few more packs at the grocery store and run another cycle by you all with some good wood. Will keep you posted, and will be back tomorrow to update on the energy efficiency check!
> 
> THANK YOU for all the thoughts today!
> 
> Sarah


 
Hope it works out for you.


----------



## Waulie (Nov 16, 2012)

That seems like the temp dropped very quick to me, but like I said I don't know the stove.  Maybe it really was softwood, or maybe it really wasn't that full.  Maybe I'm just spoiled as I don't think my smaller stove has ever started dropping temp after an hour.  I don't think I could get it to no matter what I did.  Hmmm.

What you do with the coals depend on your goals.  I you're home, awake, and cold then you'll have to open it up to burn them down and get more wood in there.  This is definitely not the most efficient way to do it, but if you're cold...

You're right that the more you have the draft open, the more heat you are wasting.  You'd probably be better off in the long run to accept less quick heat from the stove, go for the longer more efficient burns with less wood, and burn more oil.  Otherwise, at that rate you are going to go through a TON of wood.

Do keep your hope up though, as I don't think the book on your situation has even been closed to finished.


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 16, 2012)

Alright, really loading it up for the night. It's as packed as I can get it N/S. It's been less than 10 minutes, the stove was 400 when I started after burning the coals and few splits with full air for the last couple of hours. Now it's full air and warming up the load that's in there. It's up to 650 in less than 10 minutes, once it hits 750 I'll start to shut it down. This will be within a few minutes for sure based on prior experience with this thing. Just checked it, literally went up 100 degrees while I typed that and I am a fast typer!


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 16, 2012)

800 now, just closed the air down 25%


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 16, 2012)

Waulie said:


> That seems like the temp dropped very quick to me, but like I said I don't know the stove. Maybe it really was softwood, or maybe it really wasn't that full. Maybe I'm just spoiled as I don't think my smaller stove has ever started dropping temp after an hour. I don't think I could get it to no matter what I did. Hmmm.
> 
> What you do with the coals depend on your goals. I you're home, awake, and cold then you'll have to open it up to burn them down and get more wood in there. This is definitely not the most efficient way to do it, but if you're cold...
> 
> ...


 

I definitely don't want to go through a ton of wood as I'd like as much of it as possible to season for next year!! I am thinking we may have to cut our losses on this year and use more oil just so we can save most of the wood we have to really be dry for next year.


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 16, 2012)

Been 850 for a few minutes now, been shutting down the air a little bit at a time. If it follows the usual, the 2ndary burn will go out any time now.....and I will have to give it more air and shut it down slower. But at 850 should I have to shut it down slower? Is that the wood? It's late so I don't expect anyone to answer, but just want to keep up to date on what I am doing. I am burning what we were told is hardwood by a huge time reputable seller, majorly packed N/S.


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 16, 2012)

Air way down, but not closed, stove down to 745, 2ndary burn is going but not gang busters, just barely going.


----------



## jeff_t (Nov 16, 2012)

I have a cat stove, and haven't burned a stove like yours, but it seems like you should start cutting the air back sooner. If you have the top up to 850°, there is A LOT of heat going up the pipe with the primary air wide open. I know a lot of folks monitor flue temps, and use that as a guide for reducing the primary air.


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 16, 2012)

Air the same, stove 700, 2ndary flames still rolling, picked up a little from last post.


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 16, 2012)

jeff_t said:


> I have a cat stove, and haven't burned a stove like yours, but it seems like you should start cutting the air back sooner. If you have the top up to 850°, there is A LOT of heat going up the pipe with the primary air wide open. I know a lot of folks monitor flue temps, and use that as a guide for reducing the primary air.


 
I certainly can try it next time, I was going to at 700-750 but it literally shot up so fast I didn't even get to it in time. 

645 now, good 2ndary burn rolling. Not really understanding why the temp is dropping. I am afraid to close the air down any more as it's rolling good, and based on how it's been in the past I think it would go out with less air.


----------



## weatherguy (Nov 16, 2012)

pearlgirl said:


> I certainly can try it next time, I was going to at 700-750 but it literally shot up so fast I didn't even get to it in time.
> 
> 645 now, good 2ndary burn rolling. Not really understanding why the temp is dropping. I am afraid to close the air down any more as it's rolling good, and based on how it's been in the past I think it would go out with less air.


 Is this super market wood or your so so wood in the stove now?


----------



## Waulie (Nov 16, 2012)

With that stove fully packed, you should certainly see those secondaries going for a good long while.  Otherwise, you have a chimney/stove issue, or way more likely a wood issue.  Keep us posted.

Oh yeah, 850 is getting way up there past recommended burning territory.  It's likely fine for a trial run, but something to keep in mind in the future.  In general, I think you should try going to halfish closed much sooner to keep the heat in the stove.  If you have single wall stovepipe, measuring pipe temps would be a good idea too.


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 16, 2012)

This is the so, so wood.


----------



## Waulie (Nov 16, 2012)

pearlgirl said:


> I certainly can try it next time, I was going to at 700-750 but it literally shot up so fast I didn't even get to it in time.
> 
> 645 now, good 2ndary burn rolling. Not really understanding why the temp is dropping. I am afraid to close the air down any more as it's rolling good, and based on how it's been in the past I think it would go out with less air.


 
Try leaving it there.  It's normal for the top temp to come down some.  If you keep the secondaries rolling, the rest of the stove is heating up.  This is your most efficient burn.  If the secondaries go out and your temp keeps dropping, that is a problem.


----------



## Waulie (Nov 16, 2012)

pearlgirl said:


> This is the so, so wood.


 
Then definitely don't go down more on the air.  Keep the secondaries cranking.


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 16, 2012)

Pretty positive we have no single wall stove pipe. I know that is not typical, but we *did* have it, and they installed it with an only 8" clearance to wood beams at our ceiling and through our ceiling. We learned this was a huge no-no (thankfully before it was too late) and they had to come back and redo it. They basically over redid it because they had f-ed it up so bad the first time.


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 16, 2012)

Waulie said:


> Try leaving it there. It's normal for the top temp to come down some. If you keep the secondaries rolling, the rest of the stove is heating up. This is your most efficient burn. If the secondaries go out and your temp keeps dropping, that is a problem.


 
I am leaving it alone, it's been a half hour since I touched the air, and it's holding.


----------



## weatherguy (Nov 16, 2012)

pearlgirl said:


> This is the so, so wood.


 If its not seasoned enough wood your not going to get a food efficient burn, good luck on that wood guy you mentioned a few posts back, if he has truly seasoned wood you'll be good to go the rest of the year, if not Id mix in bio bricks, put a layer on the botton and your wood on top of the bio bricks, they're expensive but mixing them in you probably wont use to much.


----------



## kingquad (Nov 16, 2012)

I know your wood stash sucks, and that's a s---y place to be, but running your stove up to 700+ degrees multiple times a day is going to destroy your stove.  Try to fund a source for some dry untreated pallets or slab wood to mix in with your loads.  Also, update your profile and signature with your location and stove model.  This info helps and you might find that someone in your area is willing to help you or has some dry wood they are willing to sell you.

 Could you please give us some details about your setup and install.  We like details(i.e. liner, block off plates, insulation above and below block offs) and pics.  More info gets better answers.  You already have figured out one problem(your wood), but a 750 degree stove should be blasting in that room.  I had a slightly smaller stove that ran me out of a 500 sqft. room at that temp, so something isn't right.

Good luck


----------



## Waulie (Nov 16, 2012)

weatherguy said:


> If its not seasoned enough wood your not going to get a food efficient burn, good luck on that wood guy you mentioned a few posts back, if he has truly seasoned wood you'll be good to go the rest of the year, if not Id mix in bio bricks, put a layer on the botton and your wood on top of the bio bricks, they're expensive but mixing them in you probably wont use to much.


 
Completely agree.  This is a good exercise in getting to know your stove and if you are able to get a decent burn going that will give you some hints as to what to expect with better wood.  It will be much better than you've experienced so far.


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 16, 2012)

Thanks weatherguy. I hope he's got good wood!

Down to 650 now but still rolling. I'm leaving it and heading to bed! 76 in the room, 33 outside.


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 16, 2012)

ok, not going to bed, updating profile instead.


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 16, 2012)

kingquad said:


> I know your wood stash sucks, and that's a s---y place to be, but running your stove up to 700+ degrees multiple times a day is going to destroy your stove. Try to fund a source for some dry untreated pallets or slab wood to mix in with your loads. Also, update your profile and signature with your location and stove model. This info helps and you might find that someone in your area is willing to help you or has some dry wood they are willing to sell you.
> 
> Could you please give us some details about your setup and install. We like details(i.e. liner, block off plates, insulation above and below block offs) and pics. More info gets better answers. You already have figured out one problem(your wood), but a 750 degree stove should be blasting in that room. I had a slightly smaller stove that ran me out of a 500 sqft. room at that temp, so something isn't right.
> 
> Good luck


 
Unfortunately I don't know a lot of details, and the things you mentioned as examples sound like a foreign language to me!  I will post pictures tomorrow. I agree the stove should be blasting, totally, that is why I am here! 

Thanks every body! Energy guy will be here at 9 am. Good night!


----------



## burnt03 (Nov 16, 2012)

kingquad said:


> running your stove up to 700+ degrees multiple times a day is going to destroy your stove.


 
On that note, I have a Regency F2400 (little brother of your stove) that I just started burning this year.  I was curious about what the maximum stove top temp the manufacturer recommends and they replied with "If you find the top plate, pipe glowing red then its over – fired."

So, if you were wondering why it wasn't in the manual... there it is


----------



## kingquad (Nov 16, 2012)

pearlgirl said:


> ok, not going to bed, updating profile instead.


Good to go, and thanks.

Don't want to keep you up, but please give us your install details tomorrow.  If you don't know what a block off plate is, just do a search and you should get plenty of info.  I did a pretty detailed post on my old install with pics that should give you an idea.  Hope this helps.


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 16, 2012)

burnt03 said:


> On that note, I have a Regency F2400 (little brother of your stove) that I just started burning this year. I was curious about what the maximum stove top temp the manufacturer recommends and they replied with "If you find the top plate, pipe glowing red then its over – fired."
> 
> So, if you were wondering why it wasn't in the manual... there it is


 
The guy we bought it from said they get the WHOLE thing glowing orange when they test them.....his point was like it would be really hard to do it, and do any damage. Stood in my living room and told me that! Also told me to get it going and leave the door cracked a half hour to dry out my wood! (I don't do this.) I do wonder how I can get it so hot when my wood's so s****y.

p.s. How the heck did you find a way to contact the manufacturer? All I can figure out how to do is contact a dealer, and the one we got ours from isn't worth *#&*


----------



## kingquad (Nov 16, 2012)

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/enviro-kodiak-1700-insert-install.65227/

My old install.  Plenty of reading here for more block off plate explanation, but I feel they are necessary.


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 16, 2012)

The F3100 isn't an insert....wondering if that is why I don't know what that stuff is?

ok really seriously going to bed! ha! 



kingquad said:


> Good to go, and thanks.
> 
> Don't want to keep you up, but please give us your install details tomorrow. If you don't know what a block off plate is, just do a search and you should get plenty of info. I did a pretty detailed post on my old install with pics that should give you an idea. Hope this helps.


----------



## kingquad (Nov 16, 2012)

pearlgirl said:


> The guy we bought it from said they get the WHOLE thing glowing orange when they test them.....his point was like it would be really hard to do it, and do any damage. Stood in my living room and told me that! Also told me to get it going and leave the door cracked a half hour to dry out my wood! (I don't do this.) I do wonder how I can get it so hot when my wood's so s****y.
> 
> p.s. How the heck did you find a way to contact the manufacturer? All I can figure out how to do is contact a dealer, and the one we got ours from isn't worth *#&*


Most manufacturers go through dealers and distributors, they don't deal directly through the customers. 

You should never have to leave the door open for a half hour.  The dealer is BS'ing you.


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 16, 2012)

ok one last update, stove 625, room 76 outside temp probably about 30


----------



## kingquad (Nov 16, 2012)

pearlgirl said:


> The F3100 isn't an insert....wondering if that is why I don't know what that stuff is?
> 
> ok really seriously going to bed! ha!


Ok, I thought you had the insert.  Same principles should apply expect you probably vent into a thimble.  Give us you install details tomorrow.  Good night


----------



## turbocruiser (Nov 16, 2012)

I'm sorry I'm so late to this thread but just in the hope it helps let me add some additional "data". We have a Regency CS1200 which is 1/2 the size of the significantly larger 3100 but uses the same primary system and secondary system, baffle system, etc. The CS1200 will more than heat our home of approx 2000 sqft (that's including some "unconditioned" spaces that the regular furnace really doesn't do) without any worry even on coldest of days. Now we have taken extreme efforts to really tightly seal the home and to really thoroughly insulate the home and that always helps. Additionally we always run our furnace fan on fan only and we have returns and supplies on each of the three levels of our home. Lastly we happen to have cathedral ceilings leading from one level to the other levels (which typically would probably make things that much harder to heat but in our case it seems to significantly help with heating everything).

My point is that there are always differences in design and insulation and integrity etc of the structure but assuming you are not working against leaks and lack of insulation overall, I would have to add another vote to the fine folks who have already suggested above acceptable levels of moisture within the wood because that "big" 3100 should have no problem pushing heat to at least around 75 to 80 % of your home. I cannot remember the link that someone posted that sort of summarizes the science of heating with wood but basically, as others already mentioned, before you burn anything at all you dehumidify it down to nothing so more moisture is slowing the fire, cooling the fire, cooling the chimney, producing more problems with creosote, soot, smoke, etc. It sounds like you have a huge amount of wood readying itself for another winter and that is terrific but it also sound like you should probably start looking for some other source of seasoned wood so you can enjoy that excellent 3100 now. Hope that helps.

Ohh by the way to contact the manufacturer use this telephone number: (604) 946-5155. They are terrific about answering any questions. BTW, when I asked them about the max temps they also said the same thing about "not letting it get to glowing". I accidentally laughed out loud and said "seriously" and they told me "yes". After asking much more about my specific situation they told me that the 800 degrees I was running with regularly is totally acceptable and they simply suggested not running regularly above 1000 (measured from the top of our firebox not from the top of our stovetop which was separated by an airspace of 1/2 inch or so and therefore about 200 degrees cooler than top of our firebox). But to get the thing glowing you would have to have temps of almost 1200 degrees. In any case they don't seem the slightest concerned about running at 800 all the time. Ohh one other thing in the hope it helps, maybe I misunderstood what you were saying but if your stove top thermometer is off in measuring its cold temp, the hot temp is not necessarily a linear increase. It may be linear or it may not be linear but I'd softly suggest getting another accurate thermometer to help you have better results all around. Again hope all this actually helps.


----------



## corey21 (Nov 16, 2012)

kingquad said:


> I know your wood stash sucks, and that's a s---y place to be, but running your stove up to 700+ degrees multiple times a day is going to destroy your stove. Try to fund a source for some dry untreated pallets or slab wood to mix in with your loads. Also, update your profile and signature with your location and stove model. This info helps and you might find that someone in your area is willing to help you or has some dry wood they are willing to sell you.
> 
> Could you please give us some details about your setup and install. We like details(i.e. liner, block off plates, insulation above and below block offs) and pics. More info gets better answers. You already have figured out one problem(your wood), but a 750 degree stove should be blasting in that room. I had a slightly smaller stove that ran me out of a 500 sqft. room at that temp, so something isn't right.
> 
> Good luck


 
Someone correct me if i am wrong but i don't think you will trash a stove at 700.


----------



## BrowningBAR (Nov 16, 2012)

corey21 said:


> Someone correct me if i am wrong but i don't think you will trash a stove at 700.


She should be okay running a steel free standing stove at that temp.


----------



## corey21 (Nov 16, 2012)

BrowningBAR said:


> She should be okay running a steel free standing stove at that temp.


 

Thank you i was wondering about that saying cause the mag seems to want to cruise for a bit there sometime last few days now that winter has set in more.


----------



## burnt03 (Nov 16, 2012)

pearlgirl said:


> p.s. How the heck did you find a way to contact the manufacturer? All I can figure out how to do is contact a dealer, and the one we got ours from isn't worth *#&*


 
Used this form:  http://www.regency-fire.com/Company/Contact-Us.aspx

Says its for reporting questions/concerns with the website but it made it to a tech anyways (rokum@regency-fire.com)

I tried contacting some of the local dealers too.  One got back to me about 2 months after I contacted them initially.... lol


----------



## BrowningBAR (Nov 16, 2012)

corey21 said:


> Thank you i was wondering about that saying cause the mag seems to want to cruise for a bit there sometime last few days now that winter has set in more.


Personally, I wouldn't shoot for 800 every time. But, from what I can tell, that should be okay as well. I suspect she should be closing the air down sooner, though. Done properly she will be able to achieve high temps with the air nearly closed. In her specific case, the wet would will be hard to manage, but still workable.


----------



## fox9988 (Nov 16, 2012)

54 posts in 10 hours, welcome to your new addiction I hope you get it figured out.


----------



## begreen (Nov 17, 2012)

pearlgirl said:


> 800 now, just closed the air down 25%


Waiting until the stove reaches 800f before turning it down is not a good procedure. You should be gradually reducing the air when the stovetop is about450-500F.


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 17, 2012)

begreen said:


> Waiting until the stove reaches 800f before turning it down is not a good procedure. You should be gradually reducing the air when the stovetop is about450-500F.


 
With this wet wood there is no way I could do that. I have tried it. When we had the dry wood, I did turn it down much earlier (cooler) than I usually have to, basically as soon as I saw the 2ndary burn rolling, and it held with no air and then the temp did actually go up on the stove. (This never happens with our wood.) With the wet wood if I turn the air down even slightly at those lower temps the 2ndary goes right out. Even at the much higher temperatures I have to turn it down pretty slowly. I do expect with dry wood to be able to do what you are saying, I agree with you that's how it should be. 

I do feel like I am in very tight spot, if I turn the air down too slowly I risk the whole thing getting too hot, but if I do it too quickly I lose the 2ndary burn. This is the wood. Of course the longer I have to wait to turn it down the more heat I lose up the pipe, however it's also actually the time I get the most heat out of the stove. Last night literally was probably my best run in terms of finding that sweet spot where I got the air really down but never lost my 2ndary burn. A lot of times I do get it down but then I lose it, and I have to open the air back up to really get it going again, before I can try to start shutting it down again. 

It was 61 in the room this am (8am) without reloading it. (The energy guy is coming and we have to have it shut down.) That is a bit of an improvement, as usually it will get reloaded around 5am, and is under 60 in here at that earlier time. 

More later!


----------



## aanderoy (Nov 17, 2012)

corey21 said:


> I don't think you can heat your house with just one stove.
> 
> 30% percent is very wet.



Perhaps consider getting some of the compressed wood sawdust bricks and using those dry bricks mixed with your wood to get. Good continuous hot burn going.  I had to do that last year when I discovered (thanks to members on hearth.com) that my wood wasn't as seasoned as i thought.    We use the ENV brand briqs. The dryness  helps offset the less than ideal wood.


----------



## nola mike (Nov 17, 2012)

pearlgirl said:


> With this wet wood there is no way I could do that. I have tried it. When we had the dry wood, I did turn it down much earlier (cooler) than I usually have to, basically as soon as I saw the 2ndary burn rolling, and it held with no air and then the temp did actually go up on the stove. (This never happens with our wood.) With the wet wood if I turn the air down even slightly at those lower temps the 2ndary goes right out. Even at the much higher temperatures I have to turn it down pretty slowly. I do expect with dry wood to be able to do what you are saying, I agree with you that's how it should be.
> 
> I do feel like I am in very tight spot, if I turn the air down too slowly I risk the whole thing getting too hot, but if I do it too quickly I lose the 2ndary burn. This is the wood. Of course the longer I have to wait to turn it down the more heat I lose up the pipe, however it's also actually the time I get the most heat out of the stove. Last night literally was probably my best run in terms of finding that sweet spot where I got the air really down but never lost my 2ndary burn. A lot of times I do get it down but then I lose it, and I have to open the air back up to really get it going again, before I can try to start shutting it down again.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't worry so much about what the secondaries are doing.  Sounds like your air is a) not being cut down quickly enough, and b) being cut down too far.  So once the stove gets hot and you shut it down, it'll burn hot enough for a while, but eventually that air won't be enough to sustain it.  I had this cycle on my insert when I got it and was burning sub-par wood.  With wet wood, you'll need to keep your air more open in the back part of the burn to keep hot.  Unfortunately, the cycle I ran into was that I would coal up, the stove would cool, I'd repack it to get it hot, and eventually end up with a firebox full of coals


----------



## turbocruiser (Nov 17, 2012)

turbocruiser said:


> I'm sorry I'm so late to this thread but just in the hope it helps let me add some additional "data". We have a Regency CS1200 which is 1/2 the size of the significantly larger 3100 but uses the same primary system and secondary system, baffle system, etc. The CS1200 will more than heat our home of approx 2000 sqft (that's including some "unconditioned" spaces that the regular furnace really doesn't do) without any worry even on coldest of days. Now we have taken extreme efforts to really tightly seal the home and to really thoroughly insulate the home and that always helps. Additionally we always run our furnace fan on fan only and we have returns and supplies on each of the three levels of our home. Lastly we happen to have cathedral ceilings leading from one level to the other levels (which typically would probably make things that much harder to heat but in our case it seems to significantly help with heating everything).
> 
> My point is that there are always differences in design and insulation and integrity etc of the structure but assuming you are not working against leaks and lack of insulation overall, I would have to add another vote to the fine folks who have already suggested above acceptable levels of moisture within the wood because that "big" 3100 should have no problem pushing heat to at least around 75 to 80 % of your home. I cannot remember the link that someone posted that sort of summarizes the science of heating with wood but basically, as others already mentioned, before you burn anything at all you dehumidify it down to nothing so more moisture is slowing the fire, cooling the fire, cooling the chimney, producing more problems with creosote, soot, smoke, etc. It sounds like you have a huge amount of wood readying itself for another winter and that is terrific but it also sound like you should probably start looking for some other source of seasoned wood so you can enjoy that excellent 3100 now. Hope that helps.
> 
> Ohh by the way to contact the manufacturer use this telephone number: (604) 946-5155. They are terrific about answering any questions. BTW, when I asked them about the max temps they also said the same thing about "not letting it get to glowing". I accidentally laughed out loud and said "seriously" and they told me "yes". After asking much more about my specific situation they told me that the 800 degrees I was running with regularly is totally acceptable and they simply suggested not running regularly above 1000 (measured from the top of our firebox not from the top of our stovetop which was separated by an airspace of 1/2 inch or so and therefore about 200 degrees cooler than top of our firebox). But to get the thing glowing you would have to have temps of almost 1200 degrees. In any case they don't seem the slightest concerned about running at 800 all the time. Ohh one other thing in the hope it helps, maybe I misunderstood what you were saying but if your stove top thermometer is off in measuring its cold temp, the hot temp is not necessarily a linear increase. It may be linear or it may not be linear but I'd softly suggest getting another accurate thermometer to help you have better results all around. Again hope all this actually helps.


 
Sorry I should have added that although the entire technical team there is much more than completely competent, a Mr. Steve McCarty in particular has really helped me several times answering things specific to the stove we selected.  So what I've worked out so far is I learn approx 99% about heating with wood from the forum here and if there is something specific to the stove we selected then I call Regency's technical team, ask them if it is a good time to get a goofy question answered, and they always say sure.  As far as I am concerned Regency is great people and great product.  Hope that helps.


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 17, 2012)

It's our house! $8,000-$10,000 of foam coming our way! 

(Though our wood is still not good too.)


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 17, 2012)

nola mike said:


> t. Unfortunately, the cycle I ran into was that I would coal up, the stove would cool, I'd repack it to get it hot, and eventually end up with a firebox full of coals


 
This definitely happens to me.


----------



## weatherguy (Nov 17, 2012)

pearlgirl said:


> It's our house! $8,000-$10,000 of foam coming our way!
> 
> (Though our wood is still not good too.)


 More insulation and drier wood and you'll be sweating in your house with that stove, did your new wood guy come by yet?


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 17, 2012)

weatherguy said:


> More insulation and drier wood and you'll be sweating in your house with that stove, did your new wood guy come by yet?


 
I sure hope so! 

We are meeting him tomorrow I think.


----------



## corey21 (Nov 17, 2012)

Hope this helps things out for you.


----------



## begreen (Nov 17, 2012)

pearlgirl said:


> Thanks weatherguy. I hope he's got good wood!
> 
> Down to 650 now but still rolling. I'm leaving it and heading to bed! 76 in the room, 33 outside.


 
Considering the house was 62F last year with that temp, I'd say that qualifies for success and a bit of overkill. You will save some wood and get longer burns by throttling back a bit. The stove is working well and with dry wood you are going to love it. It's a good unit. The fact that by morning the room was back to 61F is an indication of heat loss which it sounds like you are going to address.

Tell us more about the energy audit and outcome. Tightening up the house and insulating is one of the best investments you can make. It will payback year round in energy savings and a quieter house.

PS: Sorry to hear about the unexpected operation last spring. I hope the outcome was successful and positive.


----------



## Waulie (Nov 17, 2012)

You are going to be loving your results with new insulation and dry wood!

You've spent and are spending a lot of money, but your going to much, much warmer and with the cost of oil you'll be recouping some of that every year.

Plus, I don't care how tight your home is, you can't beat wood heat. 

When you're all set up and sweating in your stove room, ask more about moving heat around. There are great suggestions to be had here.


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 17, 2012)

begreen said:


> Considering the house was 62F last year with that temp, I'd say that qualifies for success and a bit of overkill. You will save some wood and get longer burns by throttling back a bit. The stove is working well and with dry wood you are going to love it. It's a good unit. The fact that by morning the room was back to 61F is an indication of heat loss which it sounds like you are going to address.
> 
> Tell us more about the energy audit and outcome. Tightening up the house and insulating is one of the best investments you can make. It will payback year round in energy savings and a quieter house.
> 
> PS: Sorry to hear about the unexpected operation last spring. I hope the outcome was successful and positive.


 
I get what you are saying for sure. It is better than 62! It's just that the furnance directly carries the heat to other areas of the house where of course we are needing it to escape from here to reach those places. So I do feel like it needs to be roasting in here to get that same 62 other places that we were getting with the furnance or higher ideally. 

I just got it going again and the thermometer working right is extremely helpful and I've got it going good now. Just explained to my husband how it's running perfect now but with more air than is most efficient because of our wood, and it took longer to get to that point than it should because of the wood, but right now, it's doing what it should. I haven't gotten it over 625 this run either. 

The energy guy actually came out with an infrared gun, it was really cool. He just walked around pointing that thing and you could see all the places where the cold was coming in (which wasn't so "cool", ha!), or places even behind walls where the insulation was not as it should be. It was really neat. He did not do the fan in the door and get a score from that process or anything, we had that done on our last home. He just went around with the gun. He seemed extremely knowledgeable, and does a lot of jobs in the city in crazy old homes that need a lot. Our main culprit is definitely underneath the house, and it did not surprise me at all. I was surprised though just how cold it really is down there and all the ways it's creeping up here into our living space. I really have a ton of hope that once they do all this work it's going to be so wonderful in here! 

Thank you about my son, he was 3 at the time, and actually had an auto-immune attack on his brain and spine called ADEM, it was horrific, but he is doing fantastic now and is back to about 90% and still improving which is nothing short of a miracle at this point. It has been an unbelievable experience and we are just so thankful he is ok. 
I took pictures of our setup, going to try and figure out how to get them here now!


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 17, 2012)

Ok, this is our house. So you can easily see how the living room is in the middle (which is where the stove is, pipe is on the back) and then the two sides going up from there. Just doing one right now to see if this is how I want to do photos, or if I want to try the URL thing!


----------



## Waulie (Nov 17, 2012)

pearlgirl said:


> Thank you about my son, he was 3 at the time, and actually had an auto-immune attack on his brain and spine called ADEM, it was horrific, but he is doing fantastic now and is back to about 90% and still improving which is nothing short of a miracle at this point. It has been an unbelievable experience and we are just so thankful he is ok.
> I took pictures of our setup, going to try and figure out how to get them here now!


 
Wow.  I have a 4 and almost 2 year old and I can't imagine!  So glad he's doing so well.

Can't wait to see picks of your setup.  Post a couple of that cook stove too.  It's sounds pretty cool.


----------



## Waulie (Nov 17, 2012)

pearlgirl said:


> Ok, this is our house. So you can easily see how the living room is in the middle (which is where the stove is, pipe is on the back) and then the two sides going up from there. Just doing one right now to see if this is how I want to do photos, or if I want to try the URL thing!


 
Very cool house!  Er, I mean "nice".


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 17, 2012)

Here is the stove. 



Going into the ceiling, they originally had single wall there!



Coming out of the ceiling into our attic.




Going out of the attic.



The rest outside.


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 17, 2012)

Here is the other stove.






This is the back from one end, where we were told it is too close to that wall.




Same thing, just other end.




And here is where the pipe is very close to the shelf. That pot looks like it is touching but it is in front of it, closer to me taking the photo I mean.


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 17, 2012)

Waulie said:


> Very cool house! Er, I mean "nice".


 
Thank you!  It's cooler than we knew! ha! We do love this house, which is in part why I think this has all been so upsetting to me and frustrating, and why we will do what we need to do take make it work. Freezing our bums off has been making me hate this house and I do not want to hate it! I want to live here forever!


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 17, 2012)

This is in the living room, so you can see the stairs going up there to the left of the stove on this end, that's the 3 story side.




This is the other end of the room, with the other set of stairs going up into the other part.


----------



## begreen (Nov 17, 2012)

Thanks for posting the pictures. They really help. That's a nice house. I'm surprised to see you are in the Syracuse area. I would have guessed the northwest with that handmade craftsman style.

The livingroom looks like an enclosed breezeway connecting two separate dwellings. That explains why the kitchen side stays warm and the heating challenge. The next step will be figuring out how to get the heat into the main house. Is there a doorway to the first floor from the living room?

Do you have a 12" table fan or a basic box fan? Would it be possible to post a rough sketch of the first floor plan?

Also, you mentioned some safety concerns about the kitchen wood stove. What are they?


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 17, 2012)

Waulie said:


> Wow. I have a 4 and almost 2 year old and I can't imagine! So glad he's doing so well.


 

Thank you.


----------



## begreen (Nov 17, 2012)

Just looked at the kitchen pictures. That's a great looking cook stove. There definitely is a safety issue with the flue pipe. Unshielded single-wall pipe needs to be 18" from combustibles in all directions.


----------



## BrowningBAR (Nov 17, 2012)

pearlgirl said:


> It's our house! $8,000-$10,000 of foam coming our way!
> 
> (Though our wood is still not good too.)


See! And you didn't believe me! 

Seriously, though, good to hear you found the issue. If you seal that SOB up you should notice a big difference, even with wet wood.

If possible, buy/gather next year's wood now. Your goal is to get 2+ years ahead. Many of us shoot for 3-5 years ahead for our fuel. It makes everything a lot easier.


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 17, 2012)

BrowningBAR said:


> See! And you didn't believe me!
> 
> Seriously, though, good to hear you found the issue. If you seal that SOB up you should notice a big difference, even with wet wood.
> 
> If possible, buy/gather next year's wood now. Your goal is to get 2+ years ahead. Many of us shoot for 3-5 years ahead for our fuel. It makes everything a lot easier.


 
You are right, I did not think it was that bad, and certainly at least not in the newer areas. And it is the older side that is the worst, but there is a crawl space under this living room that connects the two basements and so it is very cold under here too. When we opened the access to the crawl space in the better basement the cold was really pouring out, you could just feel it. The cellar is just so cold and it's spreading down there and up here too. It was good timing having that guy out to prove you right!  

We've got 25+ FC stacked right now!  Planning to get more. We really do know and want to get ahead. But boy is it a lot of work! My 3 big kids are earning summer camp next year though stacking, so it works out! And it's still not cheap when you are buying so much to get a head, but once we do we can get to where we are only buying a years worth in a year.


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 17, 2012)

begreen said:


> Just looked at the kitchen pictures. That's a great looking cook stove. There definitely is a safety issue with the flue pipe. Unshielded single-wall pipe needs to be 18" from combustibles in all directions.


 
So since we can't move the stove, or the pipe, what can we do? The shelf could come down, but that wouldn't give us enough inches still I am thinking. Can we put something protective on the shelf? Like a shield? Or like if we take down the shelf and tile that wall?

Open to any ideas!


----------



## BrowningBAR (Nov 17, 2012)

pearlgirl said:


> And it's still not cheap when you are buying so much to get a head, but once we do we can get to where we are only buying a years worth in a year.


 
I feel your pain. I go through 8 cord a year now and I had to buy 10-16 cord the last two years to build up the supply. And I will need to bring in 10 cord a year for the next several years to build up the supply.


----------



## BrowningBAR (Nov 17, 2012)

pearlgirl said:


> So since we can't move the stove, or the pipe, what can we do? The shelf could come down, but that wouldn't give us enough inches still I am thinking. Can we put something protective on the shelf? Like a shield? Or like if we take down the shelf and tile that wall?
> 
> Open to any ideas!


Replacing the existing single wall pipe with double wall pipe should solve the issue with the pipe clearances.


----------



## begreen (Nov 17, 2012)

pearlgirl said:


> So since we can't move the stove, or the pipe, what can we do? The shelf could come down, but that wouldn't give us enough inches still I am thinking. Can we put something protective on the shelf? Like a shield? Or like if we take down the shelf and tile that wall?
> 
> Open to any ideas!


 
The first question is how the pipe is exiting the room? Is there a proper support box or an illegal setup like you had in the living room? If it is a legal support box that transitions to class A pipe outside, then changing the interior pipe to double-wall connector and increasing the shelf clearance may be enough. The shelf could have a wide circle cut in it with a jigsaw to make the 6" double-wall clearance requirement. It looks like it would need to be about a 3" deep cut.

You could also attach a pipe shield to the single-wall. That would also reduce the required clearance to 6".


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 17, 2012)

begreen said:


> The first question is how the pipe is exiting the room? Is there a proper support box or an illegal setup like you had in the living room? If it is a legal support box that transitions to class A pipe outside, then changing the interior pipe to double-wall connector and increasing the shelf clearance may be enough. The shelf could have a wide circle cut in it with a jigsaw to make the 6" double-wall clearance requirement. It looks like it would need to be about a 3" deep cut.
> 
> You could also attach a pipe shield to the single-wall. That would also reduce the required clearance to 6".


 
Here we go, just grabbed a picture of the top!


----------



## begreen (Nov 17, 2012)

pearlgirl said:


> You are right, I did not think it was that bad, and certainly at least not in the newer areas. And it is the older side that is the worst, but there is a crawl space under this living room that connects the two basements and so it is very cold under here too. When we opened the access to the crawl space in the better basement the cold was really pouring out, you could just feel it. The cellar is just so cold and it's spreading down there and up here too. It was good timing having that guy out to prove you right!


 
Insulating under the living room floor should help. Then I would close the crawlspace access doors. You don't want that cold spilling into the adjacent basement(s). It could freeze plumbing during a bad cold snap. Note that this is common when folks don't run the furnace in the winter. I would recommend letting it cycle once an hour or so during a deep freeze to avoid pipe freezing in the cold basement. If the hot water heater is down there I would also insulate the hot water pipes and give the hw heater an extra wrap of insulation.


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 17, 2012)

begreen said:


> or an illegal setup like you had in the living room?
> .


 
Are there things illegal about the living room set up right now? As it's shown in the pictures I posted earlier? Or do you mean how I'd described how they'd had it with the single wall before they fixed it?


----------



## begreen (Nov 17, 2012)

pearlgirl said:


> Here we go, just grabbed a picture of the top!


 
Looks like that might be class A pipe going thru the roof. If so, your cheapest solution is to attach this shield to the single-wall stove pipe where it gets closer than 18" to combustibles.
http://www.amazon.com/Imperial-Group-BM0133-Adjustable-Shield/dp/B000DZQR3Q

Keep an eye on the pipe. That looks like cheap hardware stove stove pipe.Watch out for any sign of tiny holes developing, especially where there is rust and replace all the pipe at that time. Note that the crimped edge is supposed to be on the bottom edge of the pipe (toward the stove).


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 17, 2012)

begreen said:


> Insulating under the living room floor should help. Then I would close the crawlspace access doors. You don't want that cold spilling into the adjacent basement(s). It could freeze plumbing during a bad cold snap. Note that this is common when folks don't run the furnace in the winter. I would recommend letting it cycle once an hour or so during a deep freeze to avoid pipe freezing in the cold basement. If the hot water heater is down there I would also insulate the hot water pipes and give the hw heater an extra wrap of insulation.


 
I think we will use the furnace more than I was originally wanting to once the house is better insulated. It won't be so expensive to use it then. Based on last year I never wanted to use it ever again!


----------



## turbocruiser (Nov 17, 2012)

pearlgirl said:


> I think we will use the furnace more than I was originally wanting to once the house is better insulated. It won't be so expensive to use it then. Based on last year I never wanted to use it ever again!


 
Again if you have a "fan on" or "circ on" feature to the thermostat you can use the furnace to circulate the air without heating the air and that helps tremendously as long as you have sufficient supply and sufficient return.  Hope that helps.


----------



## begreen (Nov 17, 2012)

turbocruiser said:


> Again if you have a "fan on" or "circ on" feature to the thermostat you can use the furnace to circulate the air without heating the air and that helps tremendously as long as you have sufficient supply and sufficient return. Hope that helps.


 
If the duct work runs are long the heat loss may negate any gains here, especially if the supply or returns are uninsulated.


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 17, 2012)

begreen said:


> If the duct work runs are long the heat loss may negate any gains here, especially if the supply or returns are uninsulated.


 
I think this is absolutely the case right now, hopefully it will be much better after all this work is done and it may be a possibility down the road. Thanks!


----------



## turbocruiser (Nov 18, 2012)

begreen said:


> If the duct work runs are long the heat loss may negate any gains here, especially if the supply or returns are uninsulated.


 
True.  We are lucky in that we have supplies and returns on all our levels and the runs are relatively short.  Without the furnace on fan only and all our ceiling fans on full the room the stove is in gets uncomfortably warm.  But with the furnace on fan only and all our ceiling fans on full the lowest level tends to stay 5 degrees below the middle level and the upper level tends to stay 5 degrees above the middle level so it is pretty well balanced.


----------



## begreen (Nov 18, 2012)

pearlgirl said:


> I think this is absolutely the case right now, hopefully it will be much better after all this work is done and it may be a possibility down the road. Thanks!


 
I insulated all runs when we installed the heat pump. It made a big difference.


----------



## turbocruiser (Nov 18, 2012)

begreen said:


> I insulated all runs when we installed the heat pump. It made a big difference.


 
Out of curiosity what did you decide on for insulation?  In other words was it fiberglass, fiberglass w/foil backing, or something else specific?  Did you happen to make any measurements of the before vs. after?


----------



## begreen (Nov 18, 2012)

I used fiberglass with foil backing on the plenums and trunks. It's designed for duct insulation. The supply runs were redone with insulated flex duct. The old propane system was pulled and I didn't get any measurements for it. But we did measure with the heat pump and see about a 2-5 degree drop from the supply plenum depending on the length of the new insulated. run.


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 18, 2012)

begreen said:


> I insulated all runs when we installed the heat pump. It made a big difference.


 
I believe they are doing this! Right now the runs are going from the one basement completely through the crawl space that is already less than 40 in some places, and into the cellar before coming up on the other side, and they are not sealed where they come up either. He said they'd be fixing that.

I believe the majority of the insulation work is going to be spray foam. I guess that is in part why it's going to be so expensive, he said it's expensive stuff. Oh I'll be so glad when they get started. It is going to take a few weeks though, especially with the holiday next week. We are able to do this through a state program, and financing is offered. It's a 15 year loan, at 3.59% so even though this is pretty big ticket, monthly it's going to be really manageable. Getting that loan approved and everything set through the program will take a little bit.


----------



## Pallet Pete (Nov 18, 2012)

pearlgirl said:


> I think we will use the furnace more than I was originally wanting to once the house is better insulated. It won't be so expensive to use it then. Based on last year I never wanted to use it ever again!



Pearlgirl we insulated our home last winter and what a difference it has made. We went from the stove and furnace running to mainly the stove. Our furnace is an old old one. To put it into perspective our bills went from 450-500 a month to the last bill being 81 dollars. Insulation is worth every penny by the end of this winter we will have mad back the 3100 in savings alone. Good luck I hope this helps ease your mind some. This will give you an idea of what foam is like through the install process. 

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/so-begins-the-insulation-pics.83224/

Pete


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 18, 2012)

Pallet Pete said:


> Pearlgirl we insulated our home last winter and what a difference it has made. We went from the stove and furnace running to mainly the stove. Our furnace is an old old one. To put it into perspective our bills went from 450-500 a month to the last bill being 81 dollars. Insulation is worth every penny by the end of this winter we will have mad back the 3100 in savings alone. Good luck I hope this helps ease your mind some. This will give you an idea of what foam is like through the install process.
> 
> https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/so-begins-the-insulation-pics.83224/
> 
> Pete


 
Great to read through that thread!  I'm even more hopeful now! Thank you!

p.s. Just noticing all the folks from Michigan. We grew up in the Flint area.


----------



## Pallet Pete (Nov 18, 2012)

pearlgirl said:


> Great to read through that thread!  I'm even more hopeful now! Thank you!
> 
> p.s. Just noticing all the folks from Michigan. We grew up in the Flint area.


 
Your welcome pearlgirl you know whats funny I have noticed a lot this year that I did not last year from Michigan. Where in flint are you from I have some family from that area too.

Pete


----------



## pearlgirl (Nov 18, 2012)

Well it sure gets cold there, and with the economy the way it is, there are probably more and more looking for other ways to stay warm! We are more from the suburbs, west and south. My dad and brother are both in the city now though actually. (I wish they were not!)


----------



## Waulie (Nov 18, 2012)

My wife is from Flint!

Flint town, Flint town, fa fa fa fa Flint town.

We were just down there a few weeks ago.  The city is actually coming around.  It is way nicer than it ways a few years ago.


----------



## KB007 (Nov 20, 2012)

+1 on insulation.  We have a fiarly well sealed 1800 sqft bungalow that had R20 in the attic.  We blew in to make it up to R50 and it made a big difference in keeping the place warmer.

Just to check a couple of details:
Have you checked your baffle on the F3100 - it needs to be all the way to the back and overlapping RHS on LHS.
Do you have the fan running? High or low?
Thermometer is really important, or better yet get yourself an IR gun and use that - I pikced one up at the HW store cheap and it really helped confirm the accuracy of the magnetic thermo (or at least the inaccuracy). Now I know where to tell my wife where it needs to be b4 turning down.

Right now, with temp outside of 30F, our LR (20X18) is sitting at 85F with the I3100 coaling along from 2 splits put in 4 hrs ago.

Dry wood, good insulation and a little bit of technique and you'll be roasting in that room.


----------



## corey21 (Nov 20, 2012)

KB007 said:


> +1 on insulation. We have a fiarly well sealed 1800 sqft bungalow that had R20 in the attic. We blew in to make it up to R50 and it made a big difference in keeping the place warmer.
> 
> Just to check a couple of details:
> Have you checked your baffle on the F3100 - it needs to be all the way to the back and overlapping RHS on LHS.
> ...


 
Sounds like at my house with the stove hot.


----------



## kmachn (Nov 26, 2012)

I'm a big advocate of the spray foam, great R-value and air seals. Just keep in mind that once the house gets good and sealed up, it may have an effect on your draft. With all those air leaks right now, your stove has plenty of places for make-up air to enter the house. But once those get sealed up, it might have a little harder time finding places to get in.  Of course, it's not hard to find knowledgeable people around to give you some feedback should that happen. But if you're anything like me, you do some intense insulating & air-sealing and get all "fired up" about that first fire in the stove and then you can't hardly get the darn thing to get going and frustration sets back in. I hope that doesn't happen, but if that is the case then you'll at least have a starting point to troubleshoot.


----------



## pearlgirl (Dec 12, 2012)

kmachn said:


> I'm a big advocate of the spray foam, great R-value and air seals. Just keep in mind that once the house gets good and sealed up, it may have an effect on your draft. With all those air leaks right now, your stove has plenty of places for make-up air to enter the house. But once those get sealed up, it might have a little harder time finding places to get in. Of course, it's not hard to find knowledgeable people around to give you some feedback should that happen. But if you're anything like me, you do some intense insulating & air-sealing and get all "fired up" about that first fire in the stove and then you can't hardly get the darn thing to get going and frustration sets back in. I hope that doesn't happen, but if that is the case then you'll at least have a starting point to troubleshoot.


 
Thank you! I have been wondering about this!


----------

