# Another tire question! - All terrain or not for new truck



## jharkin (May 19, 2014)

OK guys.... Question that I know only the hearth crew can answer.


*The good news..*. Saturday i put down a deposit on a nice new Tacoma doublecab v6 4x4   I know, its just a "little"  truck, but its my little truck... and a big change from driving the Acura.

*The bad news...* the stock tires on this thing are crap Dunlops

*The plan:* take the dunlops off as soon as I get it and replace with something better.  I will sell the stock tires and I also have the leftover nearly new Michelin snow tires and factory rims from the Acura to sell that should cover the cost of new shoes.


*The question for you:* Will I be fine with street/highway tires or should I get all terrain?

To answer that you will want to know what Im using it for. 85% of the time will be road driving - commuting 16mi to work  (hilly back roads), dump and lumberyard runs etc.   We probably wont do a lot of long highway miles except maybe an occasional family camping trip in the summer. So I want reasonable comfort and fairly low noise.

I will want this tire to have good winter performance as its going to be my commuter vehicle year round here in New England. For comparison on the old car I had Michelin X-Ice3 snows for winter but dont want to deal with 2 sets of tires on the truck.

I will only occasionally go offroad, mostly dirt roads to do firewood runs, or to get to trail heads on camping trips - no rock crawling or deep mud.  The most common offroad run will be the weekly trip down the 1/4mi dirt road into our r/c airfield. Most of the time that is passable by any car but occasionally during spring rains it turns into a foot of mud or flooded under a foot of water.  In the winter we sometimes drive in there through a foot of snow.

Considering all of the above I was thinking I probably dont _need_ an A/T tire. Ive been considering getting a set of Michelin LTX M/S2 for it.. we have those on our Pilot and I love 'em and its the top rated pickup/suv highway tire on tire rack.

Or do you think I might regret it and end up wanting to use the capability of an A/T tire more often now that I have a decent 4x4? I know Michelin make a mild AT version of the LTX callt the AT2 which sounds decend but supposedly is worse on Ice than the MS2. On tire racks rating charts the new Goodyear Wrangler Adventurer is getting very good reviews but no idea how it does in ice and snow.


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## johneh (May 19, 2014)

This is what I use year round on my pick up and the better half's SUV.
My driving is much like yours and these tires work great . But everyone has there own likes and dislikes
so pick what you like for your type of driving you do
Remember the only thing between you and the road is your tires
So what ever you buy  buy good quality
http://www.nokiantires.com/tyre?id=132374&group=2.02&name=Nokian Rotiiva AT


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## yooperdave (May 19, 2014)

When I bought my latest f-150, it had what I call "street tires" on it.  Great for highway use and they were truck tires, but as soon as you went into the woods, you noticed it.  Bought something with lugs; all season all terrain and load range I needed.   Big difference!
You will be fine with street/highway tires, but when you're in the woods, you'll always wish you had the AT tires.  And as long as you don't get a really aggressive lug, it won't sound like a pack of werewolves on the highway.


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## mustash29 (May 19, 2014)

BF Goodrich all terrain.  Awesome all around tire, for the weather, small commutes, some highway, and some off road use you speak of you will be very pleased.

With proper rotation every 5000 miles and maintianing the air pressure very regularly, they have worn VERY well for me on my S-10's over the years.  '91 Sonoma had 180 on it when it got rid of it.  '01 S-10 ZR2 had BFG 31's stock, now has 32's.  03 Blazer ZR2 had 31 BFG Long Trail (highway 5 rib tread) from new.  Those have about 80 K on them and are still ok for summer use.  It has 31 AT's for the winter and pushes a 7'4" fisher Homesteader (poly) plow just fine.


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## jharkin (May 19, 2014)

Thanks for the comments all.  I didnt want to just buy all terrains "because its a truck" and only if I really needed them. If I can still get decent street perforamnce and snow ice traction but keep the off road abaility for hte rare times I need it I will lok at it.




johneh said:


> This is what I use year round on my pick up and the better half's SUV.
> My driving is much like yours and these tires work great . But everyone has there own likes and dislikes
> so pick what you like for your type of driving you do
> *Remember the only thing between you and the road is your tires
> ...



I agree, why I have always run dedicated snows on my cars and stuck with the better brands, typically Michelin.  Those Rotiivas are worth a look, an AT tire for all seson use that is snowflake on the mountain rated to boot?  Now you got my attention, 'specially if they are livable on the highway at 80mph as well.


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## ironpony (May 20, 2014)

I have run BF Goodrich A/T, Cooper AT3, an Cooper ATP on my full size Dodge Cummins over the years. All have had good mileage and wear patterns, rotating and maintaining tire pressure. Tire noise will be an issue with the Tacoma, I also have a Tacoma. Tire noise in a Cummins, ha that's funny, you can not hear anything but he rattle of the diesel. Currently have Coopers on the Tacoma and am happy with them.


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## Dune (May 20, 2014)

I would go with your original pick. Your described usage doesn't call for anything else. The vast majority of the mileage will be on the highway, you want the most comfort and safety there. You also want the least rolling resistance. I posit that your 85%/15% usage ratio if expressed in miles would be more like 98%/ 2%. 
As long as they are sticky on snow you will be happy.


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## Corey (May 20, 2014)

Nobody really 'needs' an AT tire until they are stuck in the mud or skidding off the road in snow, but by then it's too late to put them on!  I guess if you are content with the winter performance and your wood cutting is all done when it's dry and/or from some sort of roads, then you should be fine without.  Though if conditions tend toward the wet/slippery end of the spectrum, you might enjoy an AT tire.

If you do, I would second/third the BFG AT's as seeming to have a very good blend of on-road manners, decent wear, relatively quiet, etc,(all relative to an AT tire) but also having good grip in the snow and off road.  I also have a set of Nitto Terra Grapplers.  They seem to do very well on road and off road in everything but snow.  Though admittedly, at 13.5" they are a bit on the wide end of the spectrum which probably hurts the snow traction, but is a big benefit to getting into soggy farm fields for wood cutting.


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## Highbeam (May 20, 2014)

I was an AT tire guy for a long time. I've run the BF A/T, the cooper AT3, but both of my 4x4 heavy vehicles (F350 and Yukon) now use a M&S rated highway tire. You want the m&s rating, everything else is just noise, literally. In WA we have wet snow, cascade concrete, and we carry chains in the winter just in case.

I like the quietness, handling, and mpg of a highway tire that is aggressive enough to get the ms rating but not so aggressive to be an a/t tire. They last longer too.


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## Jags (May 20, 2014)

Another vote for M&S.  That is what I have on my Grand Cherokee and it makes for one sure footed billy goat.  I do notice more tire noise than I had with the previous tires if that is a concern.


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## jharkin (May 20, 2014)

Interesting comments guys.  Yes I had been leaning toward the Michelin's  as Ive had great results with them on our Honda Pilot, they have been the top rated highway all season SUV/LT tire on tire rack for years and a lot of folks consider them one of the best non-snowflake rated tires in winter driving.

Being an engineer I looked at hte number and reviews on a few options and some of your suggestions...







At the bottom you can see the ratings of the stock tires I'm going to pull off and sell. Horrible reviews, ranking near bottom of the category. Decided I dont want to live through 4 or 5 years of misery waiting for the crappy OEMs to wear out this go around... been there done that.

The BFGs are probably waaaay to agressive for what Im going to use this for... like Dune says on a mileage basis I might need the capability 2% of the time. Looking at hte weight and stiffness they wil probably kill my MPG and ride on road.

I threw in the good year for example as its in the same category as the BFG but topped their tests.


I think the Nokians johneh mentioned are the wildcard.... specs on paper close to the Michelins, and they basically look like a winter tire with all season capability. And we know Nokians are a beast in the winter.  Downside is they are hard to find around here, only a couple dealers and you cant find a lot of reviews. I'm sure they are great in the winter and on dirt... but how will they hold up on the interstate on a 90F august day?


Michelin







Nokian


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## Jags (May 20, 2014)

The ones I use are directional snow tires just like these:


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## bassJAM (May 20, 2014)

I've got an 05 crew cab 4X4 Nissan Frontier, which is very similar to the new Tacoma you've pick up.  I have a 60 mile round trip commute, 1/2 of which is highway and the other half is 2 lane roads.  I'd consider my driving style as spirited.  I don't off-road as much as I used to, but I still go out to my parents farm and take the truck down in the fields to the river bank for fishing, bon fires, and when I shoot.  I've had 3 different sets of tires on this truck since I got it.  Right now I've got the Michelin LTX MS2 tires.  They've been the best so far as far as highway comfort and wear, time will tell but I could get 75k or more out of them.  I think I'm getting slightly better fuel mileage out of them as well.  On road grip is great on dry, wet, and snow.  My 4X4 has been out all winter, but even with the snow we got I never had a problem in 2 wheel drive on hilly roads and never added weight to the bed.  But they suffer off road.  They do fine in dry hard packed dirt, but as it gets more muddy they clog up and slip.  There's a steep dirt hill behind my parents house that I like to test my tires on.  When the hill is a little wet, I need to get a slight run at the hill in 4x4 to make it up.  With the other 2 tires I've had I could just crawl up.  In dry dirt on the hill in 2 wheel drive I need to get a fast run, but with the other two tires I just needed a slight run at the hill.

The previous set I had was Pirelli Scorpion ATR.  My mileage dropped a full mile to gallon with these.  They also seemed to have a weak sidewall, so there was a lot of flex if I hit a corner hard on the street, but this might not matter to most people.  But on-road grip was great, and off-road grip was acceptable as long as I was smart about where I went.  I think they lasted about 60k miles.

Before that I had a set of Bridgestone Revo's.  This was probably my favorite of the 3, on road traction was phenomenal and they went through some stuff off-road that they probably shouldn't have.  I was really hard on these tires though (driving like a dumb kid) and only got about 35k miles out of them.  They seemed to be a stickier compound which typically wears faster.  Now Bridgestone has the Revo 2 out which some say has improved the life.  When it's time to get a new set, I'll probably go with the Revo 2, but only because my truck isn't my daily driver any more.  I might look at the BFG TA/KO too.  They seem to do really well off-road, but I don't I'd care for them as much for a commuter.  If it was in your situation, I'd probably get Michelins again.


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## semipro (May 20, 2014)

Jeremy,
I have a 2010 4x4 Tacoma double cab with almost identical usage conditions to yours.
I rarely make strong recommendations here but I'm going suggest you just get these http://www.michelinman.com/tire-selector/category/suv-crossover/ltx-a-t2/tire-details
Great dry/wet traction, long wear specs and warranty, aggressive tread for off-road and winter usage, and very quiet operation.  I really doubted a tire that seemed as aggressive as this could quietly cruise pavement at 70 MPH but they do.
I've run the LTX M/S2 tires you mentioned on other vehicles but the off-road traction doesn't come close to the AT-2s.

Edit: BTW, you're going to love having a truck.  I spent many years with an SUV and various trailers and don't know how I did it.  I haul lumber, sheet goods, etc. at least once a week in the Tacoma.  I also use it as a portable work station around the property (even sawed through the tailgate) typically with the satellite radio on.  The plastic bed is great and I've found I can haul just about anything I want even with the standard short bed and bed extender.  Really long stuff can go on roof racks or through the opening rear window.  It tows well and the safety systems like the stability control are fantastic.  The seats are also very comfortable which I found wanting in many smaller trucks. Even the rear seats are good.  You can also buy some nice roof racks for it that fold back to prevent wind noise/resistance when not in use.  I could rant on...


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## Dune (May 20, 2014)

semipro said:


> Jeremy,
> I have a 2010 4x4 Tacoma double cab with almost identical usage conditions to yours.
> I rarely make strong recommendations here but I'm going suggest you just get these http://www.michelinman.com/tire-selector/category/suv-crossover/ltx-a-t2/tire-details
> Great dry/wet traction, long wear specs and warranty, aggressive tread for off-road and winter usage, and very quiet operation.  I really doubted a tire that seemed as aggressive as this could quietly cruise pavement at 70 MPH but they do.
> I've run the LTX M/S2 tires you mentioned on other vehicles but the off-road traction doesn't come close to the AT-2s.



That looks like an excellent compromise.


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## jharkin (May 20, 2014)

@semipro -

What do you think about the AT2s on snow and in Ice? I had looked at those originally, and they do get excellent ratings on TireRack but when you start reading individual reviews they tend to be either people who love them or hated them and called them deathtraps on snow.

I ask as last winter we had a couple storms where fresh snow was coming down on icy roads before they treated and I slid into intersections even on my X-Ice xi3s!

@johneh -

How do you like the Rotiivas driving on dry pavement in the summer?   Real highspeed highway driving in this truck is going to be rare (as I only commute into the office 2-3 days a week and its on 40mph backroads, and we use the pilot for roadtrips)... but on the chance I do do some highway trips I dont want to hate them.


Looking seriously at M/S2, A/T2 and the nokains now..............


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## semipro (May 20, 2014)

jharkin said:


> @semipro -
> What do you think about the AT2s on snow and in Ice? I had looked at those originally, and they do get excellent ratings on TireRack but when you start reading individual reviews they tend to be either people who love them or hated them and called them deathtraps on snow.
> I ask as last winter we had a couple storms where fresh snow was coming down on icy roads before they treated and I slid into intersections even on my X-Ice xi3s!


We had quite a bit of snow here last winter and we have a long steep driveway and curvy country roads between us and work/town.  AT2s are the best tire I've used in the snow yet; purely subjective of course. Our Highlander sported Blizzaks which are a highly rated winter tire and It thought the AT2s did better.   In one case, we had well over a ft. of snow on the driveway so I decided to test out  the new AT2s.  I climbed through it uphill until the bumper high snow dam in front stopped our forward motion.  The snow packs to ice here quickly and again I thought the AT2s did well.  For a tire that has a 60k warranty, a relatively aggressive tread, and still runs quietly on the highway I think the AT2s are hard to beat.


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## johneh (May 20, 2014)

jharkin said:


> @johneh -
> How do you like the Rotiivas driving on dry pavement in the summer? Real highspeed highway driving in this truck is going to be rare (as I only commute into the office 2-3 days a week and its on 40mph backroads, and we use the pilot for roadtrips)... but on the chance I do do some highway trips I dont want to hate them.


The Wifes SUV is driven daily from home to her office a distance of 20 K 16 of it Hi Way at 80 k per hr. 
( 50 mph ) for those of you that are unsure of metric conversion They have very little noise and handle wet or
dry pavement very well  . They are fantastic in snow and ice .  The truck hardly sees paved roads as I work from home
but when I am on dry pavement I don't notice any noise ( 1994 Gmc Sierra 1500 shot box just like brand new )


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## jharkin (May 21, 2014)

Thanks guys....

Tough decision.  Looking at the paper specs and johneh's comments the Nokians definitely look like a better bet for winter... OTOH our Boston winters are a lot milder than Ontario and it could be that with such a winter oriented tread Id be better off with the LTX A/T2 for most of the year here. Add to that Nokians are quite hard to find around here-  Id have to order or go to a Volvo dealer 45min away to get them, whereas Michelin's can be found anywhere and Ive owned many sets of them in the past. I can also get a better deal on the Michelins.

So Im starting to think the best option is to take your advice semipro  and go with the A/T2s. If I have issues with them in the winter  I could always consider geting a dedicated set of winter tires in later years, and for that Id be better off getiing a mounted set on steelies in the alternate narrower 245/75 R16 size for this truck anyway. And for that Nokian Hakka's, X-Ice's or Blizzaks would be the choices


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## Beer Belly (May 23, 2014)

Bridgestone Revo


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## lazeedan (Jun 1, 2014)

I am very pleased with  Cooper AT3.


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## ironpony (Jun 2, 2014)

Thanks to this thread I just put the Michelins on the wife's Saturn Vue SUV. Most of the others are to noisy for a commuter vehicle. $772.00 - $70.00 Rebate.


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## jharkin (Jun 2, 2014)

Thanks for all the suggestions guys... I'm going to go look at the AT2s and the Nokians and see which one I like.

In other news, still waiting on the truck. I had to special order from the factory and after more though I decided to switch the order from the TRD Sport to the TRD Offroad.  Decided for basically the same money to go for capability rather than bling. They are telling me 2-4 weeks out and I cant wait to see what this thing is capable of!!


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## bassJAM (Jun 2, 2014)

They're nice trucks!  I test drove many when I was deciding on a midsized, and just borrowed my future FIL's 2012 Taco Sport for a couple days when I needed 2 trucks.  Enjoy!


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## semipro (Jun 2, 2014)

jharkin said:


> I decided to switch the order from the TRD Sport to the TRD Offroad.  Decided for basically the same money to go for capability rather than bling. They are telling me 2-4 weeks out and I cant wait to see what this thing is capable of!!


Good choice.   I actually like the ride of the Offroad better than the sport.  I also didn't like the hood scoop that came on the sport.

Edit: consider getting the bed extender.  I didn't want it but it came with the truck.  Now I know better. I've found two good ways to handle plywood and building supplies.  The bed extender makes it easy.  Let me know if you're interested and I can take some photos.


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## jharkin (Jun 3, 2014)

Good to hear Semi.  the Dealer only had SR5s and a Sport to test drive, I definitely liked how the Sport took corners better ... ride is firm but Im used to an even stiffer ride in my Acura. I wanst sure how the OR would be on the highway but Ive read a lot of other opinions same as you that folks liked the OR ride better.

Agree on the scoop. I hate non functional scoops..

Reading up a bit on the A-Trac system makes me want to find someplace to try and challenge this thing just for fun.


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## Seasoned Oak (Jun 3, 2014)

My tire experience
BF Goodrich: all terrain, work truck daily use 12 years plus and still going. Still 40% tread terrific tires.
Goodyear assurance on family SUV: 3 years old and shot  dryrotted at 50% tread. Ill Never buy a goodyear tire again.


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## bholler (Jun 7, 2014)

Seasoned Oak said:


> BF Goodrich: all terrain, work truck daily use 12 years plus and still going


are you saying you have 12 yer old tires on a daily driver?  if so wow how did you do that? i am lucky to get 3 or 4 years


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## Seasoned Oak (Jun 7, 2014)

bholler said:


> are you saying you have 12 yer old tires on a daily driver?  if so wow how did you do that? i am lucky to get 3 or 4 years


Thats just for the time iv owned it. I dont know how long they were on it before i got it but there was about 3/4 of tread left. By comparison the goodyears were dry rotted in about 3 years and 30K miles of a supposed 90k wear rating. I only put about 1500 miles a year on the truck. Lots of short trips.


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## bholler (Jun 7, 2014)

oh that explains it i put a minimum of 20000 a year on mine
still impressive though


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## Bret Chase (Jun 8, 2014)

mustash29 said:


> BF Goodrich all terrain.  Awesome all around tire, for the weather, small commutes, some highway, and some off road use you speak of you will be very pleased.
> 
> With proper rotation every 5000 miles and maintianing the air pressure very regularly, they have worn VERY well for me on my S-10's over the years.  '91 Sonoma had 180 on it when it got rid of it.  '01 S-10 ZR2 had BFG 31's stock, now has 32's.  03 Blazer ZR2 had 31 BFG Long Trail (highway 5 rib tread) from new.  Those have about 80 K on them and are still ok for summer use.  It has 31 AT's for the winter and pushes a 7'4" fisher Homesteader (poly) plow just fine.



I had a set of BFG A/T ko's on my old '88 Chevy K2500... I got almost 70k out of them, I was very happy with them.  The duty cycle on that truck was severe... muddy construction sites, towing 7k+ lbs, unplowed roads, etc....

My wife's got BFG long trail T/A's on her 'burb.  they do the job for the usage that truck sees.


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## ironpony (Jun 9, 2014)

jharkin said:


> Thanks for all the suggestions guys... I'm going to go look at the AT2s and the Nokians and see which one I like.
> 
> In other news, still waiting on the truck. I had to special order from the factory and after more though I decided to switch the order from the TRD Sport to the TRD Offroad.  Decided for basically the same money to go for capability rather than bling. They are telling me 2-4 weeks out and I cant wait to see what this thing is capable of!!




you are probably going to get BFG A/T now, that's what came on our Off Road Tacoma. we have 2 Sports and an Off Road, company vehicles. all have over 200,000 on them, no problems.


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## jharkin (Jun 9, 2014)

Whats intersting is that in tire racks survey results the BFG T/As actually rate only mid pack.  Obviously still the most popular choice given they have as many reportd miles as the top 5 put together.  And maybe still the best off road, but for my use I can give up some off road to get good road manners.


Still interesting that the Goodyears are rating very high, though I know a lot of folks wont touch Goodyear with a 10 foot pole.


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## bassJAM (Jun 9, 2014)

It’s amazing how quickly those ratings change.  When I picked up the Revo’s, they were at the top.  Then when I picked up the Scorpions, they were either 1 or 2 on the list.  BFG tires have always been rated lower on tirerack, but since they’ve consistently stayed there I’d say they are a solid performer.  I think the reason they are so popular is that for so long they were about the only decent A/T tire available, and they had a “cool” looking tread.  And let’s be honest, a good looking tread is just as important as actual performance!

Looks like BFG must have changed the rubber compound a little.  If I remember correctly they used to get really high treadlife scores, but pretty low dry and wet grip scores as well as low ratings on noise.  They must have went with a softer compound with more grip to stay with the competition.


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## Hogwildz (Jun 10, 2014)

I went from Goodyear Wranglers, which I was never fond of, to a set of General Grabbers HTS highway all season tires.
Was looking at the Michelin LTX MS2 tires, but just didn't have that kind of bread to shell out for tires.
The Grabbers have a 60k mile warranty, the Mich's is 70k.
The Grabbers were $200.00 less and so far very quiet, smooth ride. Handle fine in the rain, haven't had them in snow season yet.
Much better then the Wranglers, that I can say.
Good luck with your choice.


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## bholler (Jun 10, 2014)

i have always had good luck with yokahama geolanders


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## metalsped (Jul 1, 2014)

I had some Goodyear Wranglers on an F150 years ago... was a decent tire. I can vouch for Nokians, in brand only (my parents ran them on a bmw years ago and it turned an awful vehicle into a nice little winter runner).

My personal choice would be the BFG All Terrains. Yes they have a bit more rolling resistance, so it is going to hurt your mileage just a touch more than the other choices... but they give great traction. Life for me has been OK. The pairs have averaged 40k miles on my 1 tons.

I ran the M&S, and thought they were OK all around... little slick in the winter compared to the ATs.

Oh, and I ran the Michelin LTX A/T (not the 2) version on a Bronco for a while. Those were really nice. I ran the A/T 2 on an F150 and was not as impressed as the original design. I think Michelin are one of the best tire lines on the road too.


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## festerw (Jul 1, 2014)

Depending on your feelings on retreads, Treadwright has a tread pattern basically identical to the BFG AT.

I've run 3 sets now the Warden, Puma and currently have the Guard Dogs on my TJ.  They are pretty good tires.

https://www.treadwright.com/individual-product/79/WARDEN-265-70R17.00-C


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## prezes13 (Jul 26, 2014)

When I had my Tacoma I replaced those crappy dunlops with Yokohama geolanders highway tires and they were great. Now I have a tundra which came with crappy hankook tires.  Wen it will be time to replace them I will get yokohamas again.


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## brian89gp (Jul 27, 2014)

I use BF Goodrich Commercial T/A Traction on all 4 corners.  Slow wear, enough tread for offroad grip, relatively quiet on the road, and really good load ratings.  With some weight in the back I was driving around in 12in of fresh snow in 2wd with an open rear without too much issue.
http://www.bfgoodrichtires.com/tire...ck-tires/commercial-t-a-traction/tire-details


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## BrotherBart (Jul 27, 2014)

brian89gp said:


> I use BF Goodrich Commercial T/A Traction on all 4 corners.



That is what I am running on the 3/4 ton Suburban and love the things. They turned it into a mountain goat.


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## jharkin (Jul 30, 2014)

And the winner is....




*Nokian Rotiiva!*

I had decided against the A/T KOs or a really heavy duty tire like those commercial traction's. Etiher is much more tire than I need.

I was leaning heavily toward the LTX A/T2s....

But after some thought I decided to be adventurous and give those Nokians that johneh mentioned a try.  The specs and what reviews I can find on these are quite impressive and they are one of very few all season/all-terrains out there that are also snowflake rated in a P-metric.

The tires themselves are surprisingly light and on the drive home from the tire shop I had them up to 50mph and there was no tire noise to speak of despite the fairly agressive tread pattern.  INitial feel seems quite good but only time will tell as they break in.

Ill report back in the winter after Ive got some miles on them and get a chance to test them out in snow and ice.  Im also interested to find out what the tread life is going to be since they are snowflake rated but yet still carry a 700AA  rating which would usually indicate a fairly hard long life rubber.


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## gpcollen1 (Aug 15, 2014)

Firestone Destination ATs on my 4runner and loving them still aftr 30k


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## cpttuna (Feb 25, 2017)

B F Goodrich All Terrain T/A    you get what you pay for


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