# Pellet stove leaks smoke...pipe installation right?



## merr (Oct 23, 2013)

Hi Again folks,
(I created a new thread as I really have a different subject here so sorry if you have already read this)
So, I (and my husband) cleaned the stove following the maintenance manual instructions. Thank you for those! The stove was definitely NOT CLEAN despite the fact that a professional came and cleaned it at the end of last year. It does seem to be running a lot better. It has not overheated again. However, it still emits a very strong smoke smell through the house. Enough to make your eyes water and give you a headache. So, I am thinking it is definitely the venting that is the problem. A few questions with regard to the venting. Our pipe is definitely not 4 inches, it is 6. And since I am going to probably just get new pipe, should I go with 3 or 4 inches, or stick with 6? The manual say 3 or 4, but seems like that would be harder to clean out? I am going to attempt to take a picture with my kindle, we'll see how that goes. Also is it normal for the pipe that goes from the stove into the wall to attach to the pipe piece that curves downward on the outside in the middle of the wall? When cleaning the chimney we just go outside and pull it off, which seems weird to me ( both where the pipes attach to each other, and the fact that all you have to do is pull on the end of the pipe and it comes right out of the wall.) Thanks,
Meredith


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## Ashful (Oct 23, 2013)

A photo would help immensely.  I don't own or follow pellet stoves, but in a wood stove rig, it's very common to run out thru the wall, into a tee.  One side of the tee is the flue, going up the wall, while the low side of the tee is capped off.  That cap can be pulled off for cleaning, particularly useful for homeowner "bottom-up" cleaning.

As far as flue diameter, your stove manual will usually list a preferred and max size, such as:

flue:  3" (4" maximum)

If installing a new flue, I would choose the preferred size, unless that size is going to preclude a possible future replacement of this stove with another.


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## merr (Oct 23, 2013)

There are a few pictures I added above. I also took a picture of the wall so you can see the smoke stains,  which we just cleaned off before running again after cleaning stove, so these are new from last three times we ran it , and we only ran it briefly. Clearly it is leaking. Kind of hard to see in the picture, but Def there.


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## briansol (Oct 23, 2013)

make sure you have a co meter in your house.  if you're getting headaches, shut it off, open windows immediately.

3" is all you need for that short of a run.  6" is for wood stoves.  The seams should be sealed with duct tape (not the mcgyver stuff.... real ducting work tape) and/or silicone rated for 500+ degrees.


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## ChandlerR (Oct 23, 2013)

Hi merr, welcome to the forum!  I think you may be misunderstanding the measurement of the pipe.  You measured on the outside, right?  It is a double walled pipe so the 3 or 4 inch measurement is for the inner pipe, not the outer. It was hard to see by the pictures, but it looks to be leaking where the pipe goes through the wall, correct?  To be sure, you can turn the lights off at night and use a flashlight. The smoke should show up.  You have the same pipe as I do (3 inch) and there is a single piece going through the wall. If it's leaking there, there has to be a joint there, or a hole in the pipe.  It is easy to check because the pipe comes apart by twisting it a quarter turn then just wiggle it apart. You can see the dimple on the pipe and it rides in a groove on the pipe it connects to. There is a slot that the dimple slides into then when you twist it, it pulls the pipes together and should seal.  That said, if everything looks good, you can apply some high temp silicone to the joints (assuming it's leaking there)  There are many more experienced people than me and I am sure they will chime in shortly.


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## MountainSean (Oct 23, 2013)

That does look like 6 inch pipe, though it is hard to tell without a point of reference like a measuring tape. Pellet venting adds about 5/8" to the OD of the pipe so a 3" vent would be 3 5/8" OD on the exterior pipe. If that is 6" diameter pull it off and make sure it is pellet vent which as far as I know wasn't made in a 6", if someone installed that stove and used B vent or wood stove venting that would absolutely explain the problem and need to be changed right now. As for 3" or 4" venting, go with whoever the stove manufacturer recommends.


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## Bioburner (Oct 23, 2013)

OAKed pipe? Pain in the butt for short length


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## ChandlerR (Oct 23, 2013)

MountainSean said:


> That does look like 6 inch pipe, though it is hard to tell without a point of reference like a measuring tape. Pellet venting adds about 5/8" to the OD of the pipe so a 3" vent would be 3 5/8" OD on the exterior pipe. If that is 6" diameter pull it off and make sure it is pellet vent which as far as I know wasn't made in a 6", if someone installed that stove and used B vent or wood stove venting that would absolutely explain the problem and need to be changed right now. As for 3" or 4" venting, go with whoever the stove manufacturer recommends.


I just measured my Dura Vent. You're right Sean, it is 4" id and under 5" outside. Looked bigger than that


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## merr (Oct 23, 2013)

Thanks for the replies. I am going to give it some vertical rise when I fix it as the instruction manual  for install says three feet minimum vertical rise for draft purposes. The manufacturer says 3 inch for less than 15 ft of total run, so I think 3 will be fine. The place that I bought this stove from went out of business immediately after we bought it, or I would go yell at them for installing wrong.   Guess we probably should have checked to make sure ourselves though. And the pipe for pellet stoves is expensive. Maybe that's why not the right kind? Either way, I will be fixing this weekend. Oh, and about the joints...the joint connecting the inside pipe with the outside pipe is in the middle of the wall, and it is not sealed or fastened at all, just sort of shoved together. And easily pulled apart. Anyway I guess this week's paycheck is spent. Thanks again.
Merr


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## Bioburner (Oct 23, 2013)

Joint In the middle of wall is not at all cool. Good luck


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## merr (Oct 23, 2013)

That's what I thought


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## dlehneman (Oct 24, 2013)

Avoiding a joint in the wall is definitely the way to go, but I did also notice a gap around the outside of your wall thimble...when you fix the venting you should seal around the inside and outside of the pipe/thimble connection with silicone rated for a high temp. This will keep out any drafts and avoid any smoke from outside blowing back in.
Even the twist-lock Duravent piping needs silicone or tape on the joints or it will leak. Don't worry about the smaller diameter pipe being hard to clean, it's not bad. They sell brush heads specifically designed for cleaning it that work well and are reasonably priced.
Good luck, hope it goes smoothly!


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## stoveguy13 (Oct 24, 2013)

check the pipe connection to the back of the stove and the elbow are the most likely leak spots best way to check for leaks is to turn light off and make the room as dark as you can and us a flashlight


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## malibuman00 (Oct 24, 2013)

Also, I noticed that the outlet is to close to the dryer vent,  This could also cause smoke to enter back into the house.


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## ChandlerR (Oct 24, 2013)

Sounds like you've found your problem!  Even if the pipe is a Duravent, it should not just pull apart. That plus the joint in the wall is the problem for sure! The right pellet pipe is not cheap, but it's priceless if you know what I mean. It amazes me that so many installers don't seem to know what they're doing.Good luck and keep us informed, ok?


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## merr (Oct 24, 2013)

Yeah, so the pipe IS a 4" double insulated, do it is the right pipe, just looks bigger. My husband pulled that piece off and measured. But I still need to make it so the pipe doesn't just end in the wall, so I am guessing I will need to replace that section with a longer piece so it goes all the way through the wall, and can be sealed properly. Also, still need to add the vertical 3' of venting. Oh and that's not a dryer vent, it's what I believe you folks refer to as an OAK.


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## dlehneman (Oct 24, 2013)

I noticed your "dryer vent" also, but wondered if it was your OAK. I just added a modified dryer vent over mine so that it wouldn't take in moisture as much as in the past.


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## hyfire (Oct 26, 2013)

You might want to buy a dwyer magnehelic  gauge that measures your draft. They are on ebay might help you figure out your issues.  You will want 0-.5 "W.C scale. Your pressure switch trips at .1 you should be running between .2-.3 average.


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## stoveguy2esw (Oct 26, 2013)

im not thrilled with the "downward" exhaust. hot air doesn't like being forced down, this could create more back pressure in the pipes (especially when its farther from the blower) and magnify any leaks you may have (especially early in the fire or at startup before the pipe heats up and starts picking up a little draft in the vert section.

usually there is no more than a 45 degree angle on an exit pipe in a downward exit. this looks more like a 90. i could be wrong on it just looking at the picture


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## hyfire (Oct 26, 2013)

I would say its about 70-80 degrees, which is still not good as you mentioned.  He really needs to get a vertical section in there somehow, even if its outdoors...


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## Bioburner (Oct 26, 2013)

Having a joint in the wall is not good. Will see what new exhaust the OP gets this weekend.


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## stoveguy2esw (Oct 26, 2013)

Bioburner said:


> Having a joint in the wall is not good. Will see what new exhaust the OP gets this weekend.



ewww , missed that part, yeah a definite no-no in my book.


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## hyfire (Oct 26, 2013)

FYI  3m makes a flue tape good to 600F I would also tape all the joints with that, but you still need the piping fixed.  He should do that also.  I need to pickup some for myself too...


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## merr (Oct 26, 2013)

Hi all I am stuck right now in a position where I am not sure if I need to replace all the venting, or if I could use some of the existing material and maybe just get a new pipe to go from inside to outside that extends beyond the exterior wall, ant a new vertical rise pipe section. (And of course seal it off well ) I am not an expert on this stuff by any means. I tried to get advice from local installers today but that was a no go. It's just that the vent pipes are pretty expensive, so I only want to have to fix this once. My husband thinks that we might need to actually center stove on hearth pad an change where it is going through the wall, because there is not even proper clearance from the interior wall to the stove. However, that seems like it would then require changes in where the pipe goes through the wall, which won't really work. Anyway, if anyone has any thoughts on whether I can use some of what is already in place, let me know. Also, is home cheapo the place to buy materials, or is there somewhere better? Or should I hire someone to fix this for me( which I'd rather not, but if I have to because I don't really know what I am doing I will) . And by the way...I am a she  . And if it helps at all here are a few more pics.


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## stoveguy2esw (Oct 26, 2013)

merr said:


> And by the way...I am a she . And if it helps at all here are a few more pics.




figured that by the avatar and the mention of the hubby, lotsa female burners in here , no worries.

it is Simpson DuraVent pipe , depot does stock that brand, biggest ting is thats 4 inch pipe, which is less commonly used.

big thing is to stay with the same brand of pipe if adding as they attach differently by brand (think ford / chevy) i see also the tee is followed directly with a 90, this creates back pressure as well, look closely at the tee, the tee caps are notorious for leaking between the outer shell of the pipe and the inner "cup" filling that gap with RTV works well for that.

biggest thing is to find a way to get that joint out from inside that wall, while the pipe may well be sealed , i'd never want to take a chance on an ill fitting joint inside of a wall where i couldn't see it


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## hyfire (Oct 26, 2013)

Can you explain why its impossible to go straight up from the T 4 vertical feet then 90 out? Lets see the whole room...


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## stoveguy2esw (Oct 26, 2013)

hyfire said:


> Can you explain why its impossible to go straight up from the T 4 vertical feet then 90 out? Lets see the whole room...




hole is already in the wall, look at her second set of pic's  hard to see unless you click on them but its already an up and out , just aint much "up" before the out


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## mikkeeh (Oct 26, 2013)

That sure looks bigger than 4"


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## stoveguy2esw (Oct 26, 2013)

4 inch always looks huge, one of the OP's shots shows the label though and it showed part number of 4 incher


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## RockyMtnHigh (Oct 26, 2013)

We use 4" normally where I live because it is generally suggested at our altitude. Simpson can be a leaker. In the past we used to tape the joints and seams. Now I find it easier to just use black high temp silicone on all the seams and joints. I also do a small bead on the inside of the female end of all the connections before assembly. The cap is how simpson designs them now, I haven't had a problem with them causing back pressure issues in a properly sealed and vented installation. I'd replace the section that has a joint within the wall for sure and make it so the cap extends 12" or even a little more from the siding on the house. This should eliminate sooting outside. As said earlier, use silicone to seal the wall thimble where the pipe passes through, I also do this on the inside with black high temp for a cleaner look.

If this doesn't fix it I'd start looking at the area where the combustion blower is located and see if there is a failing gasket/seal in that area.

I wish you luck!


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## MtDew (Oct 26, 2013)

There are plenty of online places to order some 4" vent piping. Lowes or HD usually only carry the 3".
If you are going to attempt this yourself, you should take the time to photograph as it sits so you have a point of reference incase you completely disassemble the piping.
At the very minimum you should swap out the piping that goes through the wall so there is no joint inside the wall. These pipes are supposed to be pushed together and given a 1/4 turn to lock the connections together. I bought the metal foil tape at my Lowes store and sealed every connection. I would def add atleast 3 ft of verticle rise on the outside of your house. Don't forget a chimney bracket to attach the pipe to the side of the house.


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## hyfire (Oct 26, 2013)

Most foil tapes are only good for 160F the 3m foil is good for 600F, I know the surface of my pellet pipe is near 150f, so not sure long term how the cheaper foil will stand up.  Check for fly ash near the exhaust blower with a flashlight as rocky is suggesting. or take some pics for us...


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## merr (Oct 27, 2013)

RockyMtnHigh said:


> The cap is how simpson designs them now, I haven't had a problem with them causing back pressure issues in a properly sealed and vented installation. I'd replace the section that has a joint within the wall for sure and make it so the cap extends 12" or even a little more from the siding on the house.


That sounds like an easier solution, the problem is I am supposed to have @ least 3' vertical rise for draft purposes, and I don't ... I have more like 6".
Also what do you all think of using the pipe section that currently terminates my run to terminate my new vertical run bc I was looking online, and it looks like duravent doesn't use that type anyone, now they use a chimney  cap type thing.


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## hyfire (Oct 27, 2013)

Merr, all i can say you better get this fixed sooner or later or winter will be knocking on your door..redo the whole thing, you can always put it on your visa


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## Bioburner (Oct 27, 2013)

No fun trying to repair a project with snow up to ones bum and mind numbing cold making you want to take short cuts that one will have to do over.


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## ChandlerR (Oct 27, 2013)

merr, you're planning on using the same brand of pipe, correct?  I have the same termination on mine and I would think that as long as you're pointing it away from the house, and not straight up, it's fine.


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## hyfire (Oct 27, 2013)

The termination is only part of her problem she needs a good draft with everything sealed inside and out..If it was me I would start fresh...


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## ChandlerR (Oct 27, 2013)

I understand and agree. If she uses the same brand of pipe, she can use the same termination cap.  I have Dura Vent on mine and like it. I have never had it leak and I remove it when I do my big cleaning then reassemble it. I don't have tape or silicone but I only have one 90 and a T. I think she's saying she doesn't want to buy something she already has.


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## Bob Sorjanen (Oct 27, 2013)

If you were closer would take a look to see if I could give you some ideas. I am on the coast and not sure where you really are except western maine.


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## hyfire (Oct 27, 2013)

Bob Sorjanen said:


> If you were closer would take a look to see if I could give you some ideas. I am on the coast and not sure where you really are except western maine.


Merr told me that if you fix her stove piping up she will make you a dinner of your choice....could be well worth the trip..


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## merr (Oct 28, 2013)

No time this weekend or til Friday to fix stuff, working 8-8 the whole week   And yes I would gladly fix anyone dinner that fix this pos. Interestingly, we turned it on last night bc it was really cold...and tonight is supposed to be 15 out, so we will turn on again I am sure...Anyway, no smoke smell. No clue what's different.


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## merr (Oct 28, 2013)

And I am in limerick


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## hyfire (Oct 28, 2013)

The greater the temperature difference in the flue gases, from the outside air the higher the draft potential, but the difference would be really minimal with your flue length that you have.  The higher the flue the effect is magnified.


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## hyfire (Oct 30, 2013)

Merr, have you made any progress on anything?


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## hyfire (Nov 3, 2013)

I wonder If Merr..fixed this...or bought some new winter clothes instead...


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## ChandlerR (Nov 3, 2013)

I was wondering the same thing.  Merr?


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## whatever (Sep 26, 2015)

Ashful said:


> As far as flue diameter, your stove manual will usually list a preferred and max size, such as:
> 
> flue:  3" (4" maximum)
> 
> If installing a new flue, I would choose the preferred size, unless that size is going to preclude a possible future replacement of this stove with another.


My local expert says even if you can use 3", install 4". Reasoning: Soot builds up in the flue and can reduce a 3" pipe to 2-1/2 inches or less. A 4" pipe with the same buildup would still be over 3". It's not that much more money. It's also easier to clean if you have elbows to get around.


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## Bioburner (Sep 26, 2015)

If you have any issues with soot you have got a stove problem. Most of the more modern stoves can go an entire season with no issues and then its usually fly ash. Only soot I have seen is in stoves that are not run for long and run cold.


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## whatever (Sep 26, 2015)

merr said:


> Hi all I am stuck right now in a position where I am not sure if I need to replace all the venting, or if I could use some of the existing material and maybe just get a new pipe to go from inside to outside that extends beyond the exterior wall, ant a new vertical rise pipe section. (And of course seal it off well ) I am not an expert on this stuff by any means. I tried to get advice from local installers today but that was a no go. It's just that the vent pipes are pretty expensive, so I only want to have to fix this once. My husband thinks that we might need to actually center stove on hearth pad an change where it is going through the wall, because there is not even proper clearance from the interior wall to the stove. However, that seems like it would then require changes in where the pipe goes through the wall, which won't really work. Anyway, if anyone has any thoughts on whether I can use some of what is already in place, let me know. Also, is home cheapo the place to buy materials, or is there somewhere better? Or should I hire someone to fix this for me( which I'd rather not, but if I have to because I don't really know what I am doing I will) . And by the way...I am a she  . And if it helps at all here are a few more pics.


One thing I noticed is that I can't see any silicone where the vent pipe adapter fits onto the stove. That's the one place where you have to seal with silicone. 
Home Depot may be cheaper, but you won't get very good advice there. A hearth specialty store may be a bit more expensive, but they know what they are talking about. It's your safety you are talking about.
If you are getting headaches, don't run the stove until it's fixed, and have a CO alarm.


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## Bioburner (Sep 26, 2015)

Your responding to a 2 year old thread. The OP had a very short exhaust and a joint inside of the wall-thimble and that is a very big install mistake as one cannot then see a leaking joint.


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