# Gas Generator Recommendations



## DUMF (Jan 25, 2016)

The old Craftsman genset that we build the place in 2000 with is slowly giving up-- well on, PC dies.
We're looking at a Honda inverter gen @ 7000 surge watts : EU7000iS. It's pricey at $4000. BUT fuel efficient, safe for electronics, quiet, batt start, etc....
What do you have ?


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## Wooden Head (Jan 26, 2016)

DUMF said:


> The old Craftsman genset that we build the place in 2000 with is slowly giving up-- well on, PC dies.
> We're looking at a Honda inverter gen @ 7000 surge watts : EU7000iS. It's pricey at $4000. BUT fuel efficient, safe for electronics, quiet, batt start, etc....
> What do you have ?


 
I have 2 generators. A Honda EU3000IS and a Ridgid 7000/8500 w/Yamaha engine. The Honda is only 110V but is quite. I use it for running Things that do not have Motors (furnace, dryer, microwave, 220V Well Pump & Air conditioner). I hook up the Rigid to run the motor operated/220V devices when needed.  The Ridgid is loud and will only run about 7hrs on an 8 gallon tank of gas. The Honda is very quite and will run 12 hrs. on 5 gallons of gas.

The Honda EU7000iS is an great generator. It is quite, good gas consumption and clean power. Should run all of your household.


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## DougA (Jan 26, 2016)

I got a Honda eu2000i after going through 3 other makes. Been working well for 3 years.
I prefer the smaller units that I can carry around if needed. Unless we have a war or long term power grid failure, the longest I can see needing it to run is 4 to 5 days after a bad storm.
The biggest concern I would have is availability of fuel during a long term power outage. You want a unit that sips fuel, not guzzles it. What good is a whole house generator if there is no fuel to run it?


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## DUMF (Jan 26, 2016)

You know how you go over all a product's reviews: Amazon, eBay, online sites. All, I mean all, of the genset brands had many negative reviews
for reliability, steady state power, safe power, fuel consumption, noise, etc... Name it: Yamaha, Ridgid, Generac, TroyBuilt, others.  Only the Honda EU7000iS had no negatives....except price. I looked. There was a recall for a frame defect in 2014. That's it. 
Worth the $$$$  ($4000. ) ?  
The standbys come in around $6000. net with some problems of their own. Thx for the input.


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## BrotherBart (Jan 26, 2016)

I have run this joint for five days to two weeks with a couple of 3,200 watt Chinese gennys for years. Computers, big screens, DVR unit etc. didn't die. Well, the refrigerator died last year. After 29 years. Must have been the generator's fault. And they just sip gas. I only fire the 5,500 watt one I have owned for years once a month so the carb doesn't crap up. Never use it anymore.


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## DougA (Jan 27, 2016)

BrotherBart said:


> Chinese gennys


That's what is used to say too but my opinion changed 4 years ago when I needed the power desperately and the Chinese would not start. Pulled apart the carb, cleaned it out and still nothing. My son came over, gave it a yank and the rope snapped off.  Then I bought Hyundai and had similar hard start problems. Last big power outage, I bought the Honda. 
Each to their own opinion but when I've got a thousand dollars in the freezer, I want something I can count on.
I've bought way more than my share of Chinese stuff in the last few decades and the quality is getting worse every time. 
I'm glad yours is working fine and I'm glad I took my to the scrap yard.


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## BrotherBart (Jan 27, 2016)

The reason I have four generators.


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## Village Idiot (Jan 27, 2016)

I have two generators myself. One is a Harbor Freight "portable outlet" 800/900 watt unit and the other is a Champion 8000 watt Costco special. I have a socket on the outside of the house for the big generator that connects to a generator switch in the main panel. The HF unit can connect to a special transfer switch at the panel to run just my fireplace blower via an extension cord. I mentioned my setup in this post a few years ago.

This will also let me hook the sump pump to it as well. The sump challenges the HF unit, but in an emergency, it is an $90 gamble I am willing to take.


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## Wooden Head (Jan 27, 2016)

DUMF said:


> You know how you go over all a product's reviews: Amazon, eBay, online sites. All, I mean all, of the genset brands had many negative reviews
> for reliability, steady state power, safe power, fuel consumption, noise, etc... Name it: Yamaha, Ridgid, Generac, TroyBuilt, others.  Only the Honda EU7000iS had no negatives....except price. I looked. There was a recall for a frame defect in 2014. That's it.
> Worth the $$$$  ($4000. ) ?
> The standbys come in around $6000. net with some problems of their own. Thx for the input.



You are correct the Honda is an outstanding generator.


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## KB007 (Jan 27, 2016)

I use a briggs and stratton 8kw for major outages, mainly for the 220v needed for my well pump.  Also have a ryobi. 2000w inverter that works when I just need to run the fridge or other smller loads.


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## Highbeam (Jan 28, 2016)

So you plan to run the whole house with this genset right? Good. Can we assume you will be using a full panel interlock transfer switch setup? It is the smartest. Good.

The best thing about the Honda 7000 is that it is 240 volts and inverter powered. Clean power, idles down to match load, low fuel consumption as a result of the idle down, and very quiet. The trouble with it is that it is obviously very expensive but also the thing is enormous. It has a battery and though miserly it will still consume a lot of gasoline over several days of use. Also, when you actually use a lot of power you will use a lot of gasoline.

I don't know of any other inverter 240V gensets and you need 240 to backfeed the panel in the conventional way with your interlock.

Don't worry about the long term outages. Worry about having enough fuel on hand for the expected outages, the ones that happen frequently. You can't plan for the worst or else you would never get anything done. An asteroid might hit you after all!

Myself, I'm a fan of the Champion Power Equipment company. They are the best of the Chinese generator family but are actually based in the US. Like just about anything including the computer you are looking at, there is international content. My current genset is a 3200 watt inverter genset. It only makes 120 volt power but I can send 3200 watts to any breaker or combination of breakers. With my old 240 volt 4000 watt noninverter genset I could only send 2000 watts to each side of the panel. Since I am willing to give up 240 volt devices during a power outage I made an adapter to power the whole main panel with 120 volt power.


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## Highbeam (Jan 28, 2016)

So you plan to run the whole house with this genset right? Good. Can we assume you will be using a full panel interlock transfer switch setup? It is the smartest. Good.

The best thing about the Honda 7000 is that it is 240 volts and inverter powered. Clean power, idles down to match load, low fuel consumption as a result of the idle down, and very quiet. The trouble with it is that it is obviously very expensive but also the thing is enormous. It has a battery and though miserly it will still consume a lot of gasoline over several days of use. Also, when you actually use a lot of power you will use a lot of gasoline.

I don't know of any other inverter 240V gensets and you need 240 to backfeed the panel in the conventional way with your interlock.

Don't worry about the long term outages. Worry about having enough fuel on hand for the expected outages, the ones that happen frequently. You can't plan for the worst or else you would never get anything done. An asteroid might hit you after all!

Myself, I'm a fan of the Champion Power Equipment company. They are the best of the Chinese generator family but are actually based in the US. Like just about anything including the computer you are looking at, there is international content. My current genset is a 3200 watt inverter genset. It only makes 120 volt power but I can send 3200 watts to any breaker or combination of breakers. With my old 240 volt 4000 watt noninverter genset I could only send 2000 watts to each side of the panel. Since I am willing to give up 240 volt devices during a power outage I made an adapter to power the whole main panel with 120 volt power.


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## DUMF (Jan 29, 2016)

Highbeam said:


> So you plan to run the whole house with this genset right? Good. Can we assume you will be using a full panel interlock transfer switch setup? It is the smartest. Good.
> 
> The best thing about the Honda 7000 is that it is 240 volts and inverter powered. Clean power, idles down to match load, low fuel consumption as a result of the idle down, and very quiet. The trouble with it is that it is obviously very expensive but also the thing is enormous. It has a battery and though miserly it will still consume a lot of gasoline over several days of use. Also, when you actually use a lot of power you will use a lot of gasoline.
> 
> ...



Nice post, informative.
Just installed a 10 circuit transfer switch, enough to run this small place. The Honda is our choice though $$$$.


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## moey (Jan 29, 2016)

I think if I was spending 4k I would just spend a bit more and get a standby system that runs on propane/nat gas. 

I have a 2000w champion invertor that powers my pellet stove if there was a power outage in the winter and some lights. I have a 3500w champion gas guzzler that I use to power the well pump when my tank runs dry during a power outage. I have 120v transfer switch and 5 circuits wired in. Whole setup was probably $800ish. I thought about getting a standby generator but I was not confident they would handle the surge from my heat pump on startup so I figured whats the point in spending all the money.


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## DUMF (Jan 30, 2016)

moey said:


> I think if I was spending 4k I would just spend a bit more and get a standby system that runs on propane/nat gas.



Did complete quotes on both systems, but chose the Honda high end portable with a new 10 circuit transfer switch.
Reasons:
1. The standby Kohler and Generac are complex electronic systems that often have problems with unit software.
2. Propane delivery can be tough in serious storms with roads blocked.
3. Gas is common to many tools, and vehicles that are used often; can siphon gas in extreme cases.
4. The standby generator has to be clear of snow to vent and run safely (snow fence recommended)
5. Since there is an auto startup weekly, propane use can be high and expensive. And they have high oil consumption.
6. There have been no negative reviews or complaints about the Honda inverter generators.
7. This Honda EU700iS is fuel injected, no carb to worry about.
8. The standbys' warranty mandates yearly authorized maintenance of $170./year.

Only complaint: the Honda is expensive. We're still able to pull the unit out, push the starter, plug it in, switch the circuits.


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## BrotherBart (Jan 30, 2016)

Sounds like a plan.


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## Wooden Head (Jan 30, 2016)

DUMF said:


> Did complete quotes on both systems, but chose the Honda high end portable with a new 10 circuit transfer switch.
> Reasons:
> 1. The standby Kohler and Generac are complex electronic systems that often have problems with unit software.
> 2. Propane delivery can be tough in serious storms with roads blocked.
> ...



Great Decision.


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## maple1 (Jan 30, 2016)

First thing to do would be to assess how much juice you REALLY need in a power outage. Most people either don't do that, or do it wrong.

We used to have a 5500/8500 Craftsman - it worked great, but sucked gas like nobodys business. Last thing I want to be doing in a long outage or storm is lugging jugs every day. And if it's a long outage, good chance the gas station can't pump gas either. And fuel is expensive.

Sold that & got a 3kw inverter. It does everything we need and burns very little gas. I might even get a 2000w inverter for some redundancy, it would do everything we need except for the well pump. And we only really need to run the well pump maybe a couple times a day to keep us in water. Could get by a day or two with no well pump, between what's in the cushion tank & what's in the toilet tanks when the power goes out. A consideration for some might also be adding a second cushion tank or getting a bigger one - gives you more water reserve when the power goes out & might take the 'big genny' factor out of the genny decision. Or at least give a lot more flexibility.

If we still had an oil tank, I might consider a small diesel that I could run off the oil tank. If I had a LP tank, I would consider an LP generator - most small gennies can be converted to run off LP. Either way, how hard it is to keep it in fuel is pretty well a bigger consideration than how much electricity it can make. For us. Most have way more genny than they need.


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## velvetfoot (Jan 30, 2016)

With a 275 gallon oil tank already in the basement, I've toyed with the idea of a diesel generator.  That being said, I've got a little Honda 2000 and a bigger Generac portable for the well pump.  If I can anticipate a storm, I can fill up the bathtubs and be good for a couple of days before starting the big one.  I rigged up an inlet plug for the little one so that it feeds both legs and thus power any non-240 v. appliance through the interlock.  Works for me.


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## DougA (Jan 30, 2016)

"Most have way more genny than they need."
Agree completely. If there is a month long grid outage as many predict, the goal is survival, not lifestyle. 
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ted-koppel-exposes-cyberattack-threat-on-u-s-power-grid-in-lights-out/
The malware is already inside the computers in small utility companies. If one goes down, it takes one of the four national systems down.  The last big north east power outage was caused by trees falling on a power line in Ohio. That's all it takes to black out a huge part of two nations.

I read a great story about how people survived the riots in Egypt a few years ago. Rich people with walled mansions were no match for rioting crowds of hundreds. Wealthy people living in modest homes were much luckier.  When there is a power outage in our area, I can hear the big generacs half a mile away. Their house is lit up like a lighthouse.  It's an advertisement saying,'  " I've got power "

My little Honda is silent from 60 ft. I only have a few candles burning, the wood stove keeping us warm and the little Honda keeping the fridge and freezer going. 

Just my way of doing things. Sorry, a little bit of a rant but people need more research than they are doing.


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## Bad Wolf (Jan 30, 2016)

I'll second the 2000 watt Champion Inverter. Great little generator, well engineered and sips gas. Like a lot of others here I favour the two generator set up.  Little one for critical systems, but clean and runs a long time. Big one to run wells, washing machines, and the whole house for short periods of time.
In reality you will rarely need your set up so to spend lots of money is not necessary. In the 30 years I've been in this house I've only had two times where the powers been out for more than 12 hours. Irene (6 days)  and Sandy (5 days). The routine was fire up the big genny in the morning and evening for a few hours and run the small one the rest of the time.
As much as I like having "toys" I can't see spending 4g's not even for an automatic natural gas whole house set up.
Now when I'm 90 it might be a different story but now I don't mind having to flip switches or run an extension cord.


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## Redbarn (Jan 31, 2016)

velvetfoot said:


> That being said, I've got a little Honda 2000 and a bigger Generac portable for the well pump.


Me too. I have a Yamaha 2000kwh and a  5500kwh gas guzzler for the well pump.
This is a very usable and flexible combo. 
Either genny can also be used throughout the year for all manner of other jobs too.
Much better than a fixed installation or a single big genny.


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## DUMF (Jan 31, 2016)

Redbarn said:


> Me too. I have a Yamaha 2000kwh and a  5500kwh gas guzzler for the well pump.
> This is a very usable and flexible combo.
> Either genny can also be used throughout the year for all manner of other jobs too.
> Much better than a fixed installation or a single big genny.


Off topic, but: how do you like your electric ramsplitter ? Any problems, concerns, downtime ?


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## Redbarn (Jan 31, 2016)

DUMF said:


> Off topic, but: how do you like your electric ramsplitter ? Any problems, concerns, downtime ?


It's been good. I use it both indoors & outdoors. 
Great for use inside the barn in the winter. Starts up everytime !
If I need to split in the woods, I take my bigger genny along to power it.
It's a very versatile and usable tool.
I've had no issues to date apart from a small fluid leak in one of the hose fittings. 
I just put more fluid in and haven't got around to fixing it yet.
I have only been defeated by some big pieces (> 20" dia) of elm, otherwise it has split everything I've used it for.


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## DUMF (Feb 5, 2016)

Nice responses...thanks.
Part of the choice was that the genset only runs intermittently, never at night and then 2x/day for a couple of hours each time.
Also, reliability, quiet, low fuel consumption, low maintenance ( e.g. fuel injection), inverter, excellent monitoring panel..
Since I didn't marry an heiress (yet), the yearly costs of standbys and potential problems were deal breakers.


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## DUMF (Feb 5, 2016)

Redbarn said:


> .
> I have only been defeated by some big pieces (> 20" dia) of *elm*, otherwise it has split everything I've used it for.



Elm can be a PITA. Try splitting Am. Elm from the "outside in" not heartwood splitting. Easier, since it has a tough stringy grain.
Not a great firewood but adequate and plenty around dead.


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## velvetfoot (Feb 6, 2016)

Just make real sure it'll start the well pump if you have one before you buy it.  I wonder if the place you buy it from would help there, like take it back if it doesn't cut it, or come out with the same unit and test.  Startup load on a deep well pump can be a lot, and you don't want to be holding that 4 grand bag.


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## DUMF (Feb 7, 2016)

velvetfoot said:


> Just make real sure it'll start the well pump if you have one before you buy it.  I wonder if the place you buy it from would help there, like take it back if it doesn't cut it, or come out with the same unit and test.  Startup load on a deep well pump can be a lot, and you don't want to be holding that 4 grand bag.


Got the Honda, gave it a trial run with the new transfer switch, all systems go. And, sold the Craftsman 3250w to a mechanic friend for $100. fully operational......just too small.
The 3250 did the water pump but shut down electronics and dimmed, big time, the few lights when surging for the pump startup.
This Honda is near silent, easy batt start, and drops RPM when lower loads for gas savings. Total installation cost for the 10 circuit transfer switch including an awkward PITA getting to another panel was $800. And not to hard to pull out of the shed, plug it in, start, then switch circuits.
Great comments all.


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## metalsped (Feb 8, 2016)

For that much money, you aren't far off from a nice diesel generator


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## Highbeam (Feb 8, 2016)

metalsped said:


> For that much money, you aren't far off from a nice diesel generator



I wouldn't say "nice", but a diesel generator sure. Remember this is an inverter 240 genset that runs at some super low dB level.


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## Wooden Head (Feb 9, 2016)

metalsped said:


> For that much money, you aren't far off from a nice diesel generator


Question? Why diesel?


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## metalsped (Feb 11, 2016)

Wooden Head said:


> Question? Why diesel?


Diesel is a superior fuel source for backup generators, in my not so humble opinion. Excellent storage life, ease of storage (275g home heating oil tank will work just fine), and prime power units run at only 1800rpms. There is a reason that all commercial and medical facility backup power solutions are diesel based.


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## Highbeam (Feb 11, 2016)

metalsped said:


> and prime power units run at only 1800rpms.



Gasoline powered sets can be designed to run at 1800 as well. Some do. Also some diesels run at 3600 rpm. It's just a matter of cheap gas gensets vs. expensive diesel gensets.

Land prime power units are not what this thread is about. This is not unlike asking why semi tractors use diesel engines and my passenger Honda car uses a gasoline engine.


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## DUMF (Feb 11, 2016)

Diesel does have storage problems: algae, water, debris in diesel engines as well as gelling (sp.) in cold climates like where we live.
Gas for smaller gensets is readily available, can be siphoned out of our vehicles in an emergency, has more BTUs than diesel per unit, can be stored with additives (like diesel). The Honda EU7000iS we got is $$$$$, but is fuel injected, inverter, and variable RPMs when low loads. We shall see.


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## pen (Feb 11, 2016)

DUMF said:


> Diesel does have storage problems: algae, water, debris in diesel engines as well as gelling (sp.) in cold climates like where we live.
> Gas for smaller gensets is readily available, can be siphoned out of our vehicles in an emergency, has more BTUs than diesel per unit, can be stored with additives (like diesel). The Honda EU7000iS we got is $$$$$, but is fuel injected, inverter, and variable RPMs when low loads. We shall see.



Gas has more btu's?


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## DUMF (Feb 12, 2016)

pen said:


> Gas has more btu's?


Yes more per unit, butt could be wrong. Possible !!??


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## pen (Feb 12, 2016)

DUMF said:


> Yes more per unit, butt could be wrong. Possible !!??



Yes, extremely possible.


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## metalsped (Feb 13, 2016)

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/energy-content-d_868.html


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## DUMF (Feb 13, 2016)

Who woulda known ?   You are both correct, appreciate the info.
I am wrong, I am wrong, I am wrong, I......


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## TonyVideo (Feb 14, 2016)

The i at the end of Honda EU generators indicate that it is inverter generator and give you a sine wave for clean power to use for sensitive electronics and motors. They also have an eco setting with the rpm's ramping up and down automatically as needed. Sure they may cost more up front but the gas savings is huge and they are quieter.


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## DUMF (Feb 16, 2016)

TonyVideo said:


> The i at the end of Honda EU generators indicate that it is inverter generator and give you a sine wave for clean power to use for sensitive electronics and motors. They also have an eco setting with the rpm's ramping up and down automatically as needed. Sure they may cost more up front but the gas savings is huge and they are quieter.



Yup, it is a slick machine. You have one ?
The inverter, the ECO option, electric starting, and quiet were the major factors in the choice of Honda besides the rep for reliability. I built a special "Honda shed" near the house outlet; either of us can simply pull it out ~10', start it, and run almost the whole house. The choice as said was between a Kohler LP standby system, or this Honda. So, as long as we're able to pull the portable out, plug it in, move the circuits on the transfer switch, this will do the job.


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## semipro (Feb 16, 2016)

As someone who has a fixed-speed generator that I've had to run for 8 days -- I suggest you don't underestimate the gas savings feature of a variable speed generator. 
Buying and hauling gas as well as having to shut down for refills can be very time consuming and downright inconvenient. 

A quiet and clean running engine is also important.  Our biggest outage was in the summer and we had to run fans with windows open - no place for stinky loud generator.


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## metalsped (Feb 17, 2016)

DUMF said:


> Who woulda known ?   You are both correct, appreciate the info.
> I am wrong, I am wrong, I am wrong, I......



It is not about being wrong... it is about having the best information possible. I just love diesel, and wish more folks used it in day to day lives.


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## DUMF (Feb 17, 2016)

metalsped said:


> It is not about being wrong... it is about having the best information possible. I just love diesel, and wish more folks used it in day to day lives.



All fuels have problems of some kind. In your region and ours, cold temps a good part of the year make diesel high maintenance. 

Quality of the diesel available e.g sulphur content.
Gelling below 0 C.
Algae growth.
Water absorption.
Injector maintenance.
Need for power (in cold climates) to heat glow plugs.
More problems in small and medium engines compared to gasoline.

We do use diesel in boats and tractors.


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## dogwood (Feb 17, 2016)

_We're looking at a Honda inverter gen @ 7000 surge watts : EU7000iS. It's pricey at $4000. BUT fuel efficient, safe for electronics, quiet, batt start, etc....  What do you have ?_

DUMF, I just purchased the Honda EU7000iS inverter generator and used it for the first time yesterday, during a day and a half power outage. I got it because it was the only one I could find that would provide 240v with a true sine wave which I needed. The price was a lot, $4000 as you stated. Barring the cost, I think you'd be happy with this inverter/generator if you can possibly purchase it. It is solidly built. It is way quieter than my old Coleman generator which has always run poorly, and loudly, all the while guzzling fuel.

The Honda can automatically throttle itself down with its ECO switch, saving gas. It ran it all night and it didn't run out of fuel.  There is an attention to detail on the Honda from the gas cap to the fold up handles for moving it, beyond the generator itself.  I hated to spend that much money, but am impressed with what I've got. I am going to connect it directly to the service panel with an interlock soon as I get a chance. You get what you pay for.

Let us know which way you go and how it turns out.

Mike


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## semipro (Feb 17, 2016)

Mike,
Where are you in VA that I can come by and borrow that generator?  
Just kidding.  I have one, though not nearly as nice.   I love Honda equipment in general.
I'm in Montgomery County near Blacksburg BTW.


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## dogwood (Feb 17, 2016)

Botetourt County outside Roanoke. You can come admire and pet it if you'd like semipro.

Mike


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## DUMF (Feb 18, 2016)

dogwood said:


> _We're looking at a Honda inverter gen @ 7000 surge watts : EU7000iS. It's pricey at $4000. BUT fuel efficient, safe for electronics, quiet, batt start, etc....  What do you have ?_
> DUMF, I just purchased the Honda EU7000iS inverter generator and used it for the first time yesterday, during a day and a half power outage. I got it because it was the only one I could find that would provide 240v with a true sine wave which I needed. The price was a lot, $4000 as you stated. Barring the cost, I think you'd be happy with this inverter/generator if you can possibly purchase it. It is solidly built. It is way quieter than my old Coleman generator which has always run poorly, and loudly, all the while guzzling fuel.
> The Honda can automatically throttle itself down with its ECO switch, saving gas. It ran it all night and it didn't run out of fuel.  There is an attention to detail on the Honda from the gas cap to the fold up handles for moving it, beyond the generator itself.  I hated to spend that much money, but am impressed with what I've got. I am going to connect it directly to the service panel with an interlock soon as I get a chance. You get what you pay for.
> Let us know which way you go and how it turns out.
> Mike



Got it a week ago Mike. At -6 F push the starter, no hesitation on start up. Right about the attention to details. And, the only negative was the $$$.
The RPM downshift with the ECO switch is near 1/2 at full. Neat tool. So quiet I can hear myself sing.
Just be sure to start the Honda with ECO off.


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## Sprinter (Mar 11, 2016)

DougA said:


> I got a Honda eu2000i after going through 3 other makes. Been working well for 3 years.
> I prefer the smaller units that I can carry around if needed. Unless we have a war or long term power grid failure, the longest I can see needing it to run is 4 to 5 days after a bad storm.
> The biggest concern I would have is availability of fuel during a long term power outage. You want a unit that sips fuel, not guzzles it. What good is a whole house generator if there is no fuel to run it?


I just came across this thread and didn't read it all but I'll unhesitatingly agree with the above.  It powers every single thing we need except for the deep well pump but we have stored a lot of potable water and a lot more for toilets, etc.  I may convert it for use with a gas/propane kit just because propane doesn't degrade over time and we have a large propane tank for the range.

There are some good threads on this subject in the "gear" forum too.


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## begreen (Mar 13, 2016)

That's my approach too. We can and have had 5-7 day outages. We need something I can run at least a week or two on, intermittently to keep perishables frozen and refrigerated. The rest is gravy. I had 4.8kW Coleman contractor's generator because it had 220V out so I could power most anything (no well here). Now I have a 2.4kW Yamaha converted to also burn propane and rewired the panel so that the key 110v loads I need powered (fridge and freezer and kitchen lights), are on the same leg of the panel. Like the Honda eu2000i, the Yamaha is quiet, reliable, has an eco mode and it luggable. Mainly it sips fuel compared to the old Coleman.


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## Sprinter (Mar 13, 2016)

Talk about timing.  Our power just went out 5 minutes ago.  Got the EU2000i Honda up with one pull and now have both fridges, some lights, the DSL modem, outdoor fish pond pump, etc.  up.  I'll get the TV's going if this lasts too long.

Now we have no excuse for eating up the ice cream, though...


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## begreen (Mar 13, 2016)

Our power is out. Fire is going, house is 72F, computer and modem are on UPS. They say it should be back on in 1.5 hrs. so we'll just ride it out unless the winds get worse and take out more lines.


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## BrotherBart (Mar 13, 2016)

Hope the juice is back soon.


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## Sprinter (Mar 13, 2016)

Ours


begreen said:


> Our power is out. Fire is going, house is 72F, computer and modem are on UPS. They say it should be back on in 1.5 hrs. so we'll just ride it out unless the winds get worse and take out more lines.


Ours just came back on.  It was fairly local.  It was about 2.5 or three hrs which is pretty typical around here for the usual tree vs power line thing.  Ice cream is still hard and still there.


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## begreen (Mar 14, 2016)

Power came back on after about 6 hrs. There were multiple trees down. I appreciate the speed at which the crews worked. One tree across the road was just around the corner. I needed to exercise the RV generator (Onan 2.8kW) so I plugged that in for a couple hours. Power came on right at dusk.



Puget Sound usually doesn't get too rough, but this ferry crossing shows a bit of action around 2:25 it gets lively enough to move the car in the pole position.


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## Sprinter (Mar 14, 2016)

I think your wind speeds may have been greater than ours in Lewis Co.  Early forecasts here were for 60mph gusts which worried me, but it never got near that.  Could have been worse.  When we were in Kirkland several years ago, our power was out for something like nine days as I recall (ice storms).  That's when I started looking into the small gens. Now, and with propane for cooking, we could go for months.


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## Highbeam (Mar 22, 2016)

begreen said:


> Now I have a 2.4kW Yamaha converted to also burn propane and rewired the panel so that the key 110v loads I need powered (fridge and freezer and kitchen lights), are on the same leg of the panel.



During this last outage (ours was about 6 hours) we ran the whole house for the first time with my 3200 watt inverter generator that only provides 120 volts. We backfeed the panel like you BG. I use an interlock. Rather than jack around with moving circuits I just backfed the whole panel with in-phase 120 volt juice and shut off the 240 breakers (though I could have left them on). It was the first test doing it this way instead of the old 240 genset that backfed power similar to line power.

Man that inverter genset makes good power. A solid 125 volts all the time, never varied as loads cycled. The eco throttle setting kept the genset noise very low and fuel was sipped. The power was so clean that my ceiling fan didn't even hum, it hums slightly on utility power. During an outage we are actually under higher quality electricity.


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## Highbeam (Mar 22, 2016)

Oh and during the power outage I was able to list and sell my old generator. I figured that there would be demand and I was right! I'm all inverter now.


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## begreen (Mar 22, 2016)

Yeah I need to clean up the old Coleman and sell it. It has less than 50 hrs on it. No need now with the inverter gen and RVgen as a backup. Heck I could put an inverter on the Volt and get another steady 1.2kW supply if I had to.


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## Highbeam (Mar 22, 2016)

begreen said:


> Yeah I need to clean up the old Coleman and sell it. It has less than 50 hrs on it. No need now with the inverter gen and RVgen as a backup. Heck I could put an inverter on the Volt and get another steady 1.2kW supply if I had to.



I was looking for used volts this weekend too. Just about none for sale but the Nissan Leafs are freaking everywhere. Cheap too. I like the looks and choices of fuel with the volt. Been selling lots of stuff lately.


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## iamlucky13 (Mar 23, 2016)

I've noticed at construction sites, the EU2000i's are extremely popular, and seem to get a lot of use. I see night road crews using them to power large halogen light kits all night long for weeks on end.

Then there's the folks with remote cabins who want to run a few appliances like this guy:
http://www.survivalistboards.com/sh...ef739286dfe0d38ff81218&p=5196223&postcount=10

It seems like it's hard to go wrong buying a Honda inverter generator.


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## Highbeam (Mar 23, 2016)

iamlucky13 said:


> I've noticed at construction sites, the EU2000i's are extremely popular, and seem to get a lot of use. I see night road crews using them to power large halogen light kits all night long for weeks on end.
> 
> Then there's the folks with remote cabins who want to run a few appliances like this guy:
> http://www.survivalistboards.com/sh...ef739286dfe0d38ff81218&p=5196223&postcount=10
> ...



I am in the construction industry and they use Honda 2000s because they are very portable, very quiet, and can run for the whole shift without gas. Night work is bad enough without extra noise complaints. The flaggers like to have a light on them at night. Funny how they always seem to be charging their phones with them.


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## Sprinter (Mar 23, 2016)

iamlucky13 said:


> Then there's the folks with remote cabins who want to run a few appliances like this guy:
> http://www.survivalistboards.com/sh...ef739286dfe0d38ff81218&p=5196223&postcount=10


Something like 19,000 hours? On the same spark plug?  Yeah, I guess they're alright, alright.


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## begreen (Mar 23, 2016)

Highbeam said:


> I was looking for used volts this weekend too. Just about none for sale but the Nissan Leafs are freaking everywhere. Cheap too. I like the looks and choices of fuel with the volt. Been selling lots of stuff lately.


There is a day and night difference between them. The Volt is a road car. Great for local and long trips and twisty backroads. The Leaf is a good city car but not for long haul drives.


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## maple1 (Mar 25, 2016)

Highbeam said:


> During this last outage (ours was about 6 hours) we ran the whole house for the first time with my 3200 watt inverter generator that only provides 120 volts. We backfeed the panel like you BG. I use an interlock. Rather than jack around with moving circuits I just backfed the whole panel with in-phase 120 volt juice and shut off the 240 breakers (though I could have left them on). It was the first test doing it this way instead of the old 240 genset that backfed power similar to line power.
> 
> Man that inverter genset makes good power. A solid 125 volts all the time, never varied as loads cycled. The eco throttle setting kept the genset noise very low and fuel was sipped. The power was so clean that my ceiling fan didn't even hum, it hums slightly on utility power. During an outage we are actually under higher quality electricity.



What do you have for an inverter genny exactly?

EDIT: I looked back in the thread. You mentioned Champion - is that what your inverter is? I wasn't really aware they made a 3200w, if so.


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## Highbeam (Mar 25, 2016)

maple1 said:


> What do you have for an inverter genny exactly?
> 
> EDIT: I looked back in the thread. You mentioned Champion - is that what your inverter is? I wasn't really aware they made a 3200w, if so.



Yes, it's great. Not quite honda 3000 quiet but rated as quite as Hondas 3000 handi. I bought it from Costco online so it's the black one. Starts up the rv's air conditioner no problem when on low idle.


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## maple1 (Mar 26, 2016)

Highbeam said:


> Yes, it's great. Not quite honda 3000 quiet but rated as quite as Hondas 3000 handi. I bought it from Costco online so it's the black one. Starts up the rv's air conditioner no problem when on low idle.



This one?:

http://www.costco.ca/Champion-3100W-Inverter-Generator.product.100118537.html

Hadn't seen that before on our Costco site.

This is the one I got, locally (from the local building supply place that is great to deal with) on a 'tax free' sale. Got a decent deal & it works great, so far:

http://www.kingcanada.com/Products.htm?CD=417&ID=21934

Except for the battery it came with. I replaced that this winter, it was pretty well worthless right out of the box. The electric start is great. It's actually remote start but I haven't bothered with that.

I wasn't fussy about the name on the side, but from the looking I did, it seemed identical to the Lifan that HD sells. And Lifan seems to make decent stuff. After getting it home & going over it & using it, I couldn't see the Lifan name on it anywhere, but the name that was on it (far eastern but I forget now what it was) might be all part of the same company. I might have gone the Champion way if I had seen it at the time. I would love to have a Honda, but couldn't justify the 3x price tag.


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## Highbeam (Mar 26, 2016)

maple1 said:


> This one?:
> 
> http://www.costco.ca/Champion-3100W-Inverter-Generator.product.100118537.html
> 
> ...


Yes, the first one. It's been a great performer. The only issue has been rolling through soft  gravel the wheels don't work well.


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## begreen (Mar 29, 2016)

Looks like a nice unit.


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## lagger (Jun 25, 2016)

just purchased a champion dual fuel 7000/9000 @ costco while it was on sale for 599.00   got this one because it will run on propane (but at a lower wattage, 6300 running) and more importantly, to me, it has < 5% thd, I am still considering a power conditioner for the pellet stove and other electronics.. any reasonably priced suggestions or should I just go ahead with the genny straight up due to the low thd ?   I have the panel wired with a 30 amp 240 volt inlet for the genny with a lockout for the breaker and the main 200 amp service breaker.  I did notice when testing the genny set up to run the whole house, the led lights on a ceiling fan had a bit of a flicker to them that concerns me


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## TonyVideo (Jun 25, 2016)

This is a square wave generator. A sine wave generator is good for any electronics and is closer to what the power company puts out. Typically sine wave generators are inverter generators that make 12 volts but convert it to AC with more control of the output producing cleaner AC. HONDA I believe makes a 6-7k inverter generator. You get what you pay for. Honda is more fuel efficient and will end up saving you more money in the long run if that is factored in. They are typically quieter as well. 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## Highbeam (Jun 27, 2016)

TonyVideo said:


> This is a square wave generator. A sine wave generator is good for any electronics and is closer to what the power company puts out. Typically sine wave generators are inverter generators that make 12 volts but convert it to AC with more control of the output producing cleaner AC. HONDA I believe makes a 6-7k inverter generator. You get what you pay for. Honda is more fuel efficient and will end up saving you more money in the long run if that is factored in. They are typically quieter as well.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk



Not true. The RV folks are generally pretty wealthy and smart and love their champions and have put these non-inverter champions on scopes and found a very very nice sine wave output. My old 3500 watt champ really was quite good but a little too noisy.  

I have an inverter champion now and it has better voltage regulation than the non-inverter champion that I used to have and that's a big benefit. Seems the 240 gensets are really weird in how they regulate voltage. They work by making sure that the sum of voltage on both legs is 240. When you backfeed your whole house you will be unevenly loading each leg of the 240 which has the annoying side effect of lowering the voltage in the heavily used leg and raising the voltage in the other. Keep an eye out for this. My refrigerator did not like voltages under 100. Perhaps newer champions have fixed this somehow.

The inverter set has very clean power and indeed my ceiling fan has zero hum. Even on utility power I can hear more hum.

Someday I may buy another champion, a big one, that can run my electric water heater so that during extended outages I can have a hot shower in the house rather than heading out to our RV that has a gas water heater.


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## begreen (Jun 27, 2016)

LED lights can be fussy. I just switched from dimmable CFL bulbs to LEDs in our dining room. The CFLs dimmed nicely but the LEDs flicker when dimmed even though they are supposed to be dimmable and are on an approved, modern Lutron dimmer.


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## Sprinter (Jun 29, 2016)

Highbeam said:


> Not true. The RV folks are generally pretty wealthy and smart and love their champions and have put these non-inverter champions on scopes and found a very very nice sine wave output. My old 3500 watt champ really was quite good but a little too noisy.


It seems like gensets have come a long way from the early days.  AVR (automatic voltage regulator) is pretty much the norm in the mid-range categories now, and decent harmonic distortion (<5%) is more common now.  THD is the more important of the two as regards to modern electronically controlled appliances.

Most appliances and other power consuming devices are designed based on grid specifications which are quite good as regards to distortion, frequency stability, etc.  If you are concerned about the health of your appliances on generator power, there really is no substitute for inverter technology.  I'm not really too sure if the advertised specs for THD can be relied on long-term for non-inverter gensets, but the closer you can get to grid specs, the better.


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## Sprinter (Jun 29, 2016)

begreen said:


> LED lights can be fussy.


LED replacement lamps is certainly a developing technology.  I'm sure that things will sort themselves out over time, but flicker remains an issue, although apparent flicker depends a lot on the observer.

Also, current LEDs have their own harmonic distortion problems, especially when run on AC power because they have to convert to DC.  Power Factor is an issue as well that diminishes the green factor somewhat.


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## lml999 (Jul 25, 2016)

I bought a Honda 3000i generator a year ago, didn't have any occasion to use it. We just moved to Cape Cod, where the power goes out periodically....and we have well water. I'm hoping the little Honda can drive the well pump, otherwise I'll either pick up a second one and run them ganged together, or possibly sell the 3000i and pick up the 7000i.

I'm also planning on converting the unit to NG. We've got natural gas in the house, and while I'm having the line run out to the shed for the generator, I'll also have a gas line run (both buried properly).

The Honda generators are wonderful...quiet, well built.


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## Sprinter (Jul 25, 2016)

Or here is another idea.  If your well pump is a typical deep well submersible of, say, 3/4 hp, the 3000 watt will not have the power to satisfy the heavy surge when the pump starts.  However 7kw _should_ be adequate, but may be overkill for the household unless you plan to run the whole house with it. And the 7000i units are expensive.  Note that the rated continuous power is only 5500 watts with 7000 surge, which may or may not be enough for your pump.  You would want to research the surge needs of your pump before buying anything.  Also, it will be de-rated for NG use.  All things to be certain of before buying anything.

If you don't need the whole-house capability, but do need to run the pump,  a cheaper option may be to keep the 3000i for household uses, and get a 7000 - 8000 watt non-inverter (like a Champion or Westinghouse, etc) for about $700 or so just for the pump.  Those gensets with Automatic Voltage Regulator are pretty good, but your inverter set is much better for sensitive home items.  The pump should be fine with the non-inverter (but with AVR) power and only needs to be run maybe 30 minutes a day or so.  Your pressure tank can fill in a few minutes, so a gas generator could last for many fill cycles without much gas.  I'm thinking of doing that here because our 2000i is perfect for our house and takes so little gas. We have propane for cooking.   I have enough water stored for a few weeks, but I'd love to be able to run the pump.

I will get one on propane, though so I don't have to worry about stale gas all the time.

But if the cost of the 7000i is not a concern, it could be a great unit for whole-house on a switch if it's enough for the pump start.


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## begreen (Jul 25, 2016)

Check the well pump's amperage and voltage. If it's a 240v pump you will need a new generator. A buddy of mine uses the EM5000S for his deep well pump and it handles it nicely.


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## iamlucky13 (Jul 25, 2016)

I think there are replacement control panels available for well pumps that include soft-starters (beyond the start-capacitor the pump probably already has) to reduce start-up load. That could let you get away with a smaller generator than you might need unmodified. I've never gone shopping for them, however. I just know they exist for industrial motors. I assume this would be a product in high demand for off-grid solar folks who don't want to buy oversize their inverters.


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## Sprinter (Jul 25, 2016)

The motor specification to look for is "Locked Rotor Amps".  To be on the safe side, the generator should provide that much current for the duration of the surge current.  Generators can vary and motors can vary.  I don't like being too close to edge on stuff like this. If your rotor can't get going, it can fail if the breaker doesnt trip in time.  Get familiar with the requirements, then overspec by at least 10%.  The difference in costs for AVR generators isn't all that much.


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## Sprinter (Jul 25, 2016)

iamlucky13 said:


> off-grid solar folks who don't want to buy oversize their inverters.


Yeah, the off-grid folks have studied this stuff to death and do tend to not over-spend.


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## begreen (Jul 25, 2016)

Looks like the bigger Honda generators take motor startup loads into account. For example the 5KW Honda 7000is can handle a surge load of 7KW for 10 seconds.


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## Sprinter (Jul 25, 2016)

Please note that locked rotor current is the worst scenario.  Not always will it take that much current to get the rotor turning in a reasonable time, but it can happen.  I think the reason that there are so many opinions and experiences out there is that there are so many variables involved with pumps and generators.  I don't think we know IMI999's situation in that regard.

I imagine that Honda's 5500/7000i would probably work fine on a typical 3/4 hp submersible even though the locked rotor current may be upwards of 40 amps, or about 9 kw. But I'd hate to be the one that suggested it and then it doesn't work for some reason.

What I would still be concerned with, though, is the occasion when the pump starts up and loads down the household use.  If it's marginally spec'd, it could cause problems there. That's another reason I favor a separate, but cheaper generator dedicated to the pump if that works for the user.  For my place, I think it's ideal, but may not be for everyone.

Also, I believe that a generator running of NG has to be derated for maximum power by about 20% from gasoline operation.  That's pretty substantial.


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## maple1 (Jul 26, 2016)

Another option re. water in an outage, is to just increase your water storage capacity. Adding another cushion tank, or tanks, gives you more water in an outage & also helps your pump & power bill at all other times by reducing starts & stops. I also keep a 25 gallon plastic barrel under our Venmar condensate line. The little bit it catches during the year gets used for toilet flushing in an outage, and the water in the cushion tank & system lasts quite a while for drinking water.

That all depends on how long outages are & how much water you 'need' during that time, but we rarely need to run the water pump when the power goes out even with just one ordinary 20 gallon cushion tank.


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## lml999 (Jul 26, 2016)

Great input everyone! We are new to well and septic system ownership, so this is a learning process for me. 

Our water pressure is not great, so we may be changing the pump. The setup is 22 years old. I have a good well guy coming to take a look at it; he did excellent work for our neighbor, who now has great water pressure. When he comes, I'll ask about startup and steady state current draw, and what options we have.

I'm inclined to sell the 3000i and buy a 7000. An alternative is to get a second 3000i and run them together. Cost would be about the same either way... With the latter approach I'd have  redundancy if one fails, and I could also run just one if we're not running the well pump. I don't know how long the pressure tank provides water without power...if it's two flushes, that doesn't work...if it's 5 10 minute showers, that would be okay...I don't mind managing resources...

Again, I'll be running the generator(s) on natural gas piped to the house, so I don't have a specific concern about fuel sourcing.

I understand that our neighborhood seldom loses power, so putting in a standby generator seems like overkill... The auto switching transfer box at generator-line.com might be enough to make the whole thing easy for my wife to do if I'm away. Go to the shed, hit start on the genny, watch lights go back on... Our old setup required that we also flip switches on the transfer box. One button start is good for her...multiple buttons/switches in different locations...not so much.


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## Sprinter (Jul 26, 2016)

Sounds like you're doing your homework.  Just be aware that running a 5500/7000 gen on natural gas will only yield you about 4400 watts continuous and only 5600 watts surge.  To me, that's a little too marginal for my taste regarding the pump.  Household, okay.  

Maybe I'm a little conservative, but I'd hate to see you disappointed as far as the water pump is concerned.


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## begreen (Jul 26, 2016)

lml999 said:


> An alternative is to get a second 3000i and run them together.


Running two 3000i's together will double the output wattage but it will not provide 240vac.


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## Sprinter (Jul 26, 2016)

begreen said:


> Running two 3000i's together will double the output wattage but it will not provide 240vac.


Yup.  Same with my 2000i.  But we still don't know what kind of well and pump you have.  Is it a deep submersible with a 1/2 or 3/4 hp pump, or is it a shallow well with a centrifugal pump, or what?  120 vac, or 240vac?  We just need to know more to help. 

But I'm sure your contractor will steer you right.

I'm sticking with my recommendation for a household gen in addition to a well pump gen that will be cheaper and less sensitive to power quality and should be separated from the household IMO in any case.


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## Sprinter (Jul 26, 2016)

maple1 said:


> That all depends on how long outages are & how much water you 'need' during that time, but we rarely need to run the water pump when the power goes out even with just one ordinary 20 gallon cushion tank.


Exactly.  We've been fine with the occasional one day or two without the pump.  But if you are concerned about the kind of problems like Sandy or a major grid meltdown, you need more.  If you are a hard-core prepper, then _much_ more.


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## Highbeam (Jul 27, 2016)

Sprinter said:


> I'm sticking with my recommendation for a household gen in addition to a well pump gen that will be cheaper and less sensitive to power quality and should be separated from the household IMO in any case.



I agree with a little additional stuff. I am a big fan of the whole panel backfeeding option made possible/legal/safe by the use of the low cost interlock system. Feed the backfeed breaker with wire large enough to use a fat breaker like a 50 or 60 amp. Since your main panel already feeds the well pump you just use a big genset when you plan to fire the well pump or the water heater. You won't regret oversizing the inlet circuit.

Then acquire two generators. One big, burly, 240 volt guy for the heavy lifting which can be your well pump or the electric water heater in the house. The second generator is a smallish inverter genset of no more than 3000 watts that will be run most of the time. You need to create a special adapter to feed your house with the 120 volt output of the inverter genset but it works great for long term running since it is quiet, low fuel consumption, clean power, easy to manage.

I have many many hours on our little champion 3100 watt genset. It's a gem. The yam and Honda 2000+ inverter sets are also excellent.


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## TonyVideo (Feb 23, 2017)

Love my Honda eu2000i generator. It just sips gas vs an old Champion I had. Gas savings alone would pay the expense for an inverter generator not to mention being sine wave. 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## Sprinter (Feb 23, 2017)

TonyVideo said:


> Love my Honda eu2000i generator. It just sips gas vs an old Champion I had. Gas savings alone would pay the expense for an inverter generator not to mention being sine wave.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


It's really surprising how much you can power with 1800 watts.  I can power good lighting, two fridges, two TVs with satellite gear, two pond pumps, DSL modem, desktop computer, fans, stereo, and probably more.  With the wood stove and a propane range, we could last for months easy.  The Honda 2000i has an "eco" mode that runs at a slow speed if the load is less than a few hundred watts.  I've had this thing last all night plus, on less than a gallon.  Probably longer if it's in eco mode most of the time.

I know that most people don't have a gas range, but in that case, you can do a lot of cooking and water heating with a Coleman style stove and a 5 gallon tank.  A gas grill is nice too.  I've seen some pretty nice stove/oven camping units at Costco, too.

Our submersible pump is the only thing that's a problem.  If you are serious about long term outages and have a well pump, it's perfectly reasonable to get a larger genset just for that, as Highbeam suggested.  Gas consumption is not much of an issue for that purpose, nor is sine wave purity.  A pump only has to run several minutes to fill the pressure tank.

The Yamaha model is probably just as good from what I've heard, BTW.


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## maverick06 (Feb 24, 2017)

Everyone has different needs for generators. mine are needed for power outages. fireplace blower, sump pump, chest freezer, refrigerator, a few lights are my loads. I expect at least a 24 hour blackout once every summer and once in the winter. worst I have had was about 5-6 days in a row, but that was anomalous.

I have a generac 2000xi (I paid about $600). inverter genny. I am not happy with it and wouldn't recommend it. BUT it was the best non-Honda available when I was buying it. When it runs it runs well, but when its cold outside, 20F, it has a hard hard time starting. Not fun. This has only been a problem twice, but that's a problem!

I also have a champion Model # 46539 3500/4000w (I paid $419). I bought this after the inverter. My wife has a very hard time carrying the inverter and usually cant pull it over. The champion has wheels and a pushbutton start. Its great! Really pleased with it. It isn't very loud either, its a generator, but its not what I was expecting. I haven't used it enough to under stand its fuel consumption well, although the internew reviews seem to indicate its pretty civilized. I am very pleased with this so far!

Plus side is having two generators is really positive, a backup to the backup. If I was buying a new generator today without anything, I would get whatever the champion inverter is with wheels/pushbutton start (about $1000). but since I already own an inverter generator I am not going with that since money doesn't grow on any of the trees in my yard....


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## moey (Sep 23, 2017)

ShelleyWeals said:


> Why don't we use generators that run on diesel? I get this question for many days...



They do they are much larger generators though think about a mine or someplace that does not have access to the grid. Diesel engines are more expensive they just are. I suspect the consumer would not pay the cost difference.


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## begreen (Sep 23, 2017)

A friend's house has a diesel generator. He has a diesel tractor too so fuel storage is already there. They are common in boats too.


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## metalsped (Sep 24, 2017)

I run (and actually refurbish on the side) military diesel generators. Diesel is the best way to go, in my opinion. You get a nice set, and they will last forever. My 5kw military unit is actually rated for 6250 at 100%, and up to 7.5KW on demand. Half gallon an hour burn too. You can also set them up to replenish their fuel supply from a remote tank (home heating oil tank, 55 gal drum, etc). I in fact have 4 on craiglist right now, here in new england.

Not trying to sell a thing here... but if anyone wants to know anything about military power, I'd love to help. Many folks are turning onto these units, especially as storms are getting more frequent, and more intense. These are rated for prime power (which means they are DESIGNED to run 24/7... not like consumer grade items).

Any of these look like fun?


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## begreen (Sep 24, 2017)

The main reason I went for propane vs diesel was ease of storage and fuel transport and the compactness of a quiet generator.
On boats the concern was about molds forming in the tanks due to condensation. How well does diesel store over say years in a partially filled tank or barrel?


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## saewoody (Sep 24, 2017)

begreen said:


> The main reason I went for propane vs diesel was ease of storage and fuel transport and the compactness of a quiet generator.
> On boats the concern was about molds forming in the tanks due to condensation. How well does diesel store over say years in a partially filled tank or barrel?



I have a buddy with a propane generator. When I asked him why, he said when the power goes out a lot gas stations lose power too and don't have generator back ups.  Which is true around here. But you can always get propane. Made sense to me. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## lagger (Sep 24, 2017)

saewoody said:


> I have a buddy with a propane generator. When I asked him why, he said when the power goes out a lot gas stations lose power too and don't have generator back ups.  Which is true around here. But you can always get propane. Made sense to me.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


A factor in my choice of a Champion dual fuel 7\9k portable ... additionally many gennys like the generac portables have a thd exceeding .9%  and the champion is < .5%... a bbq size tank with a full fill (TSC is a godsend in this regard .. my local refills to a full 20lb \ 4.6 gal for 1.89 a gallon .. < 9 .00 bux) and is enough via an inlet to the murray box to run the whole house for 6+ hours per tank... I have never used gas in this set, so carb issues \ gumming stale fuel etc are eliminated


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## WoodyIsGoody (Sep 25, 2017)

saewoody said:


> I have a buddy with a propane generator. When I asked him why, he said when the power goes out a lot gas stations lose power too and don't have generator back ups.  Which is true around here. But you can always get propane. Made sense to me.



A huge benefit of propane in an engine used sporadically is the motor oil doesn't go bad just due to time sitting. Propane burns much cleaner than gas or diesel so you can leave the oil in there for years (if it's not run much). Oil changes can be done by the hour meter (and doubled over gasoline even it's run hard).


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## dznam (Nov 9, 2017)

begreen said:


> The main reason I went for propane vs diesel was ease of storage and fuel transport and the compactness of a quiet generator.
> On boats the concern was about molds forming in the tanks due to condensation. How well does diesel store over say years in a partially filled tank or barrel?




I have burned 40 year old diesel out of a partially filled, vented 275 gallon oil tank in our outdoor and unheated fuel building at the farm with no problems whatsoever. I have run diesel in over 25 boats, gensets, trucks, cars, etc. over the last 40 years and have never had a problem with mold or other fungal growth in any of them and I'm in Northern New England where we see 100* temperature swings (over the course of the year). There are additives (such as "Biobor") which claim to kill any algae, but I have never had or seen a use for it.

My latest diesel genset is filled by the oil-man whenever I want/need so transportation ease ranks a perfect 10 in my book. This sound-attenuated genset is 24KW and at standard distance measurement is around 52db - I have never seen a propane application come close to this. My fuel consumption is massively lower than propane as diesel motors are both more efficient mechanically and per-gallon BTU content of diesel is in the neighborhood of 30% greater than propane. On top of it all, the MTBF for this 1800 RPM motor is approximately 25,000 hours and runs a bulletproof Stamford Newage commercial gen-end.

The only downside is price - these gensets are expensive and, for me, worth every penny. Other than price, they are superior in every way IMO. YMMV


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## dznam (Nov 10, 2017)

I probably under-emphasized the price differential  - a good diesel genset is probably 4X the price of your average LP powered genset of similar output. Most people will never recoup the price premium of a diesel generator through fuel usage as they will not put that many hours on them. 

I think for most people, LP fired standby generators are a better solution. For prime-power applications, diesel is the way to go but that's not the use that most residential generators see. I put in a nice 11K Generac LP standby in a house that we recently sold and I think it was a great, cost effective solution that will probably last the life of the homeowner.  I just enjoy diesels so that's what I got and will readily admit it's not a cost-effective solution.  I think you're doing it exactly right, ShelleyWeals.


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## iamlucky13 (Nov 13, 2017)

ShelleyWeals said:


> I have a 6k propane generator, lasts about 4 hours on a 20lb tank, but since propane is for ever I plan on getting a large tank installed and feeding my dryer, generator and stove from the one tank.



It's hard to beat using a fuel you already keep on hand for other appliances as your generator fuel.


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## Angela Ou (Nov 18, 2017)

I have Cummins KTAA19-G6A, 50Hz, 1500rpm, soundproof genset. It did run well. Big output power and low fuel consumption.


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## metalsped (Nov 18, 2017)

dznam said:


> I probably under-emphasized the price differential  - a good diesel genset is probably 4X the price of your average LP powered genset of similar output. Most people will never recoup the price premium of a diesel generator through fuel usage as they will not put that many hours on them.
> 
> I think for most people, LP fired standby generators are a better solution. For prime-power applications, diesel is the way to go but that's not the use that most residential generators see. I put in a nice 11K Generac LP standby in a house that we recently sold and I think it was a great, cost effective solution that will probably last the life of the homeowner.  I just enjoy diesels so that's what I got and will readily admit it's not a cost-effective solution.  I think you're doing it exactly right, ShelleyWeals.




I sell military diesel gensets in my spare time. I will disagree with you on the 4x multiple. Brand new sets? Maybe... but there are MANY other options out there (including military). My 10kw units (which are really 15kw peak) are under $5k all day long. They will do single and three phase too.

/not trying to sell you something


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## begreen (Nov 29, 2017)

dznam said:


> I have burned 40 year old diesel out of a partially filled, vented 275 gallon oil tank in our outdoor and unheated fuel building at the farm with no problems whatsoever. I have run diesel in over 25 boats, gensets, trucks, cars, etc. over the last 40 years and have never had a problem with mold or other fungal growth in any of them and I'm in Northern New England where we see 100* temperature swings (over the course of the year). There are additives (such as "Biobor") which claim to kill any algae, but I have never had or seen a use for it.
> 
> My latest diesel genset is filled by the oil-man whenever I want/need so transportation ease ranks a perfect 10 in my book. This sound-attenuated genset is 24KW and at standard distance measurement is around 52db - I have never seen a propane application come close to this. My fuel consumption is massively lower than propane as diesel motors are both more efficient mechanically and per-gallon BTU content of diesel is in the neighborhood of 30% greater than propane. On top of it all, the MTBF for this 1800 RPM motor is approximately 25,000 hours and runs a bulletproof Stamford Newage commercial gen-end.
> 
> The only downside is price - these gensets are expensive and, for me, worth every penny. Other than price, they are superior in every way IMO. YMMV


Good to know, thanks for the detailed report. I have never owned a diesel powered boat, just built a couple and the owners were both paranoid about mold build up in their large fuel tanks. They probably read some story in a sailing magazine about mold. 

I suspect your needs are much more frequent than ours. We usually go a year or two between significant outages and 5 yrs between major multi-day outages. Our current generator has more time on it from maintenance runs than from actual usage hours. FWIW, it is rated at 53db, but that is on gas. Not sure if that changes on propane. We only power some lights and refrigeration in emergencies, so this works for us.


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