# Weed 'N Feed



## katwillny (Apr 11, 2012)

Hey all,

Can someone recommend a good spring fertilizer/weed and feed product for my lawn. I have a hilly yard and get a lot of erosion which causes a lot of bare spots. I am going to get some grass seed and top soil on Saturday and figure I'd treat the entire lawn with a weed filler and fertilize at the same time.

Thanks
Franklin


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## MasterMech (Apr 11, 2012)

Little early for the weed & feed but you can if your trying to get a jump on the dandelions.  I use the Scotts Turfbuilder products but read the label on whatever you buy.  Weed & Feed doesn't always go well with new seedlings.  This early around here I would go with a straight fert or starter fert with the seed and do your weed & feed in mid-June.


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## nate379 (Apr 12, 2012)

Supposed to wait a year or so with fresh grass, otherwise the weed and feed has a good chance of killing it. A reg 16-16-16 blend would be best.

I do the weed and feed every year or two though.  It's pricey stuff.  Last time I spread some it was about $200 to do my yard.


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## btuser (Apr 12, 2012)

Look for an active ingredient called Siduran, sold under the name Tuperspan and others.  Its safe for seeding.  Other than just put down some starter fertilizer.  What you don't want is a pre-emergent herbicide like a crabgrass preventer.  It will kill your grass for sure.  Weed-n-feed typically needs contact with broad leaf weeds.  It still kills your grass where it touches so don't use it indiscriminately.  It will also stress it out so I chose to use it very rarely.  I've cut my fertilizer application back from a 4-pack a day habit to 1/2 the recommended dosage 3 times a year vs 4.  I don't treat grubs unless I see the problem, other than its every 2-3 years to break the cycle.   I bought a backpack sprayer and will spray weeds where needed (next to the front door) and where you can't see them I let nature fight it out.  

After a decade of trying for the nicest lawn on the planet I'm starting to appreciate the meadow look.


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## ironpony (Apr 12, 2012)

dandilions are already in full bloom here
and if you weed and feed you should not plant grass
 the weed and feed kills the weed  seed along wiht the grass seed


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## jebatty (Apr 12, 2012)

There's a great product called "weed, feed, mow, sweat,can't go fishing or do anything because I have to mow, sweat, can't do anything". Why bother? And if you have erosion, all the worse - chemicals and fertilizer into the watershed, drinking water, hope your kids don't grow spikes. Tongue in cheek, of course. Have a fun summer.


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## katwillny (Apr 12, 2012)

Thanks for all of the suggestions. I will definitely look into them all. Now i have a better idea how to deal with it. I already have dandelions in full bloom, i mowed the yard last Saturday and it looks a lot better.


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## Bocefus78 (Apr 12, 2012)

Grannular herbicides dont work worth a darn IMO. The weeds must be wet for the product to stick to them, and even when it does stick, it's nothing like a liquid weed killer.  Do yourself a favor....go to Tractor Supply and get a bottle of Trimec. Its made by Gordons. Its around $30. Read the label twiceMix ratio is around 2oz to a gallon of water if memory serves me correctly. That stuff kills about all your weeds. Dandelions will be withered the next day. It wacks thistles.....yes, those annoying things that nothing else seems to kill. Clover turns brown in 2 days. Try that with anything else! And whatever you do, do NOT use ANY fertilizer with ANY of the middle or last #'s. The P and K will feed the weeds, not kill them. Use a starter fertilizer ONLY on your bare spots. Use a Nitrogen only fert on the rest of the lawn.


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## muncybob (Apr 12, 2012)

jebatty said:


> There's a great product called "weed, feed, mow, sweat,can't go fishing or do anything because I have to mow, sweat, can't do anything". Why bother? And if you have erosion, all the worse - chemicals and fertilizer into the watershed, drinking water, hope your kids don't grow spikes. Tongue in cheek, of course. Have a fun summer.


 
This is why I have used corn gluten meal. But timing is everything. Must be applied before the broadleaf weeds germinate. Due to the unusual warm March weather I missed the window! Added bonus is that when it does break down it provides a good nitrogen feed to the soil. Very easy to tell any areas that I didn't use it come May.


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## btuser (Apr 12, 2012)

Most people put the pre-emergent down too late for some weeds, too early for others. For years and years I thought I was fighting crabgrass, when I found out it was actually quackgrass. Difference is quackgrass spreads through rhizomes as well as seeds, so you actually have to rip it out of the turf to get rid of it because only the top dies in the frost. And nothing kills it. A way to tell is if you've got crabgrass before it realy gets warm, you really have quackgrass.

Beware the quackgrass. BEWARE


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## firebroad (Apr 12, 2012)

muncybob said:


> This is why I have used corn gluten meal. But timing is everything. Must be applied before the broadleaf weeds germinate. Due to the unusual warm March weather I missed the window! Added bonus is that when it does break down it provides a good nitrogen feed to the soil. Very easy to tell any areas that I didn't use it come May.


+1


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## MasterMech (Apr 12, 2012)

muncybob said:


> This is why I have used corn gluten meal. But timing is everything. Must be applied before the broadleaf weeds germinate. Due to the unusual warm March weather I missed the window! Added bonus is that when it does break down it provides a good nitrogen feed to the soil. Very easy to tell any areas that I didn't use it come May.


 
It's even sold in the box stores, look for Preen.


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## Jags (Apr 12, 2012)

jebatty said:


> There's a great product called "weed, feed, mow, sweat,can't go fishing or do anything because I have to mow, sweat, can't do anything".


 
I'm with ya Jim, I am thinking of weed n feed with roundup.  I am thinking a nice shade of brown will look just fine.  Then I can go fishing.


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## MasterMech (Apr 12, 2012)

Make sure it's the extended control version.  Don't want no pesky weeds bringing you home early!


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## midwestcoast (Apr 12, 2012)

MasterMech said:


> It's even sold in the box stores, look for Preen.


 
Look for Preen that says Organic or Vegetable Garden. The reg stuff is Trifluralin  not corn gluten, and the containers look very similar.

For the OP's situation though, he shouldn't be putting down any kind of pre-emergent herbicide or a weed & feed. Pre-emergent will keep all that new seed from germinating & weed & feed will kill it while it's small & tender.
He's overseeding & filling in bare spots= Topsoil, seed, gentle fertilizer (compost top-dressing...), water, water, water & wait. Worry about weeds later. You need to get your grass healthy or you'll never keep the weeds out anyway.


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## midwestcoast (Apr 12, 2012)

Franklin. You likely have erosion because you have barespots on the hills & not vice-versa. Grass will grow on slopes no prob if it has light, food &, water.


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## katwillny (Apr 12, 2012)

midwestcoast said:


> Franklin. You likely have erosion because you have barespots on the hills & not vice-versa. Grass will grow on slopes no prob if it has light, food &, water.


Thank you for all of your suggestions. I will concentrate on getting it healthy then worring about the grass. It is still pretty manageable so Ill put my efforts into getting rid of the bare spots.


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## MasterMech (Apr 12, 2012)

katwillny said:


> Thank you for all of your suggestions. I will concentrate on getting it healthy then worring about the grass. It is still pretty manageable so Ill put my efforts into getting rid of the bare spots.


 

Couple other threads here about grass:

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/let-there-be-grass.72246/

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...nswer-see-pics-in-last-post-here.69935/page-2

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...-good-soil-help-see-answer.71598/#post-903335


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## Mr A (Apr 13, 2012)

Kill everything with Roundup, plant a landscapers mix. All the fall and spring weeds are going to start growing, let 'em. Spray Round ujp again mid summer, water and get any weed seeds growing, kill'em again. Plant new grass seed in early fall, it will be weed free and the best lawn in the neighborhood. Just like mine!


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## firebroad (Apr 13, 2012)

MasterMech said:


> It's even sold in the box stores, look for Preen.


 
Although Preen is a pre-emergent, it is NOT corn gluten.  Corn gluten is completely organic.


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## muncybob (Apr 13, 2012)

As mentioned, don't use any pre-emergent while trying to germintae your grass or any seed. But, come next early spring after your grass is established this year consider the cgm. You can often get it in it's purest form at feed stores/mills and it's been my experience do be cheaper$$ that way. There are organic brand names out there of pre-emergents that contain cgm.


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## MasterMech (Apr 14, 2012)

firebroad said:


> Although Preen is a pre-emergent, it is NOT corn gluten. Corn gluten is completely organic.


 
Maybe I'm hallucinating 'cause I'm pretty sure I gots a bag of corn gluten out in the shed that says Preen on it.


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## LLigetfa (Apr 14, 2012)

firebroad said:


> Although Preen is a pre-emergent, it is NOT corn gluten. Corn gluten is completely organic.


I don't know brand names but corn gluten is a pre-emergent so should not be used when over-seeding.

Before herbicide was outlawed here, I used to spray with a CIL product that worked like Trimec.  I mixed it to half the prescribed strength and walked around spot spraying the weeds.

A good defense against weeds is to feed the turf so that it grows thick and crowds out the weeds.  I also plug aerate the soil, top dress problem areas, and over-seed.  Mind you, after all that it then needs to be cut twice a week.


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## MasterMech (Apr 15, 2012)

LLigetfa said:


> I don't know brand names but corn gluten is a pre-emergent so should not be used when over-seeding.
> 
> Before herbicide was outlawed here, I used to spray with a CIL product that worked like Trimec. I mixed it to half the prescribed strength and walked around spot spraying the weeds.
> 
> A good defense against weeds is to feed the turf so that it grows thick and crowds out the weeds. I also plug aerate the soil, top dress problem areas, and over-seed. Mind you, after all that it then needs to be cut twice a week.


 
And mow higher!  Everyone likes that fairway look but few realize exactly how much labor goes into keeping it weed/disease free.  Mow height depends heavily on climate and species but for KatWill, 'round here most home lawns do pretty well being cut somewhere between 2.75"-3" with minimal watering.  If you can water during the hot/dry summer then 2.5" is fine.


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## LLigetfa (Apr 15, 2012)

MasterMech said:


> And mow higher!


Can't agree more.  The wife likes the "putting green" look but I keep it much higher.  I had to make modifications to the mower deck to be able to use it at higher settings.  In addition to less watering, the higher settings keep moisture at the base to help the thatch rot.

I mulch mow and only bag along the walkways cuz the wife doesn't like getting grass clippings on her shoes.  If I get any clumping, I will run over the area with my sweeper but I wait for it to dry and carry the brushes high so that it disperses more than it picks up.


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## MasterMech (Apr 16, 2012)

LLigetfa said:


> The wife likes the "putting green" look ....


 
I could show her what it costs to maintain a putting green for a year.... That should put an end to that desire... lol.


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## semipro (Apr 16, 2012)

MasterMech said:


> And mow higher!


 
+1
And, if you care to minimize environmental impact, skip the weed and feed entirely, wipe everything out with glyphosphate (Roundup), add some organic material and replant.
Glyphosphate is relatively benign when used properly (not near water or in the rain) and probably much less damaging to surface and ground water than the weed and feed.


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## nate379 (Apr 16, 2012)

I usually set the deck to 3-3.5" when I cut the lawn.  The rough lawns I do, 5-6"


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## midwestcoast (Apr 16, 2012)

MasterMech said:


> Maybe I'm hallucinating 'cause I'm pretty sure I gots a bag of corn gluten out in the shed that says Preen on it.



You may be hallucinating, but you're right about the Preen. So
Is firebroad. As i wrote above there are 2 kinds of Preen pre-emergent in the stores. Containers are very similar. The one that says Vegetable Garden or Organic is corn gluten. The regular is trifluralin.


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## lukem (Apr 18, 2012)

I hit my yard with some liquid 2,4-D in the trailer sprayer last night to try to knock down some of the broadleaf weeds.  I 'm not going to fertilize...I have to mow enough as it is.

It is best to kill the weeds now, then a few weeks later go back and overseed and plug aerate the heck out of it, and roll it to smooth things out and make good soil contact with the seed...if you want to get really fancy.


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## MasterMech (Apr 19, 2012)

Gotta be careful plug aerating once the temps get over 85.


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## katwillny (Apr 21, 2012)

Bocefus78 said:


> Grannular herbicides dont work worth a darn IMO. The weeds must be wet for the product to stick to them, and even when it does stick, it's nothing like a liquid weed killer. Do yourself a favor....go to Tractor Supply and get a bottle of Trimec. Its made by Gordons. Its around $30. Read the label twiceMix ratio is around 2oz to a gallon of water if memory serves me correctly. That stuff kills about all your weeds. Dandelions will be withered the next day. It wacks thistles.....yes, those annoying things that nothing else seems to kill. Clover turns brown in 2 days. Try that with anything else! And whatever you do, do NOT use ANY fertilizer with ANY of the middle or last #'s. The P and K will feed the weeds, not kill them. Use a starter fertilizer ONLY on your bare spots. Use a Nitrogen only fert on the rest of the lawn.


Put down some Trimec and that stuff really works. I put it down on monday early morning and by thursday most of the weed was withering or browning. Stuff is great. we are expecting some rain the next few days so I will reassess next weekend and see how i am doing. I got some Milorganite as recommended by Pete Seeger, yes, Pete Seeger the singer, he lives in my city and I see him regularly and chat every so often at the  market. Love that man, he has done so much for our schools in this city.


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## Stax (Apr 21, 2012)

I'm with JE and Jags on this one.  When I first bought a house 3 years ago I said, "I'm gonna have a nice green yard".  After living in the outside garden department at Home Depot and out on the lawn, I realized during a really dry summer last year that this whole "Green Lawn" thing is ridiculous.  Mow your friggin lawn and move on.  So what if my lawn doesn't look like Citizens Bank Park.  It's because it's not supposed too.


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## katwillny (Apr 21, 2012)

I see your point Stax, but I just cant get myself to just let it be. Im sure one day i will get to that stage, or maybe not, but darn it, its supposed to be green and I am going to see it green. I am the type that spends hours on end writing code for a living to improve efficiencies and make it easier for folks to do their jobs more efficiently and timely. Not necessarily to save the company money, shhh dont tell my bosses,  but because its better for my fellow coworkers. call me crazy but i just cant turn it off. But I say all that to say, the I see your  point and others, I am not looking for Donald Trumps fairways, but just a nice thick rick green lawn that in itself prevents weeds. wishful thinking. Thanks for taking the time to reply to my thread.


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## nate379 (Apr 22, 2012)

People would start dying if that ever happened here! 



MasterMech said:


> once the temps get over 85.


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