# Mossberg or Remington



## saichele (Aug 18, 2008)

I know this is a little like the Ford/Chevy debate, but I'm looking for a low-end shotgun for critters in the garden.  I've never been a shotgun guy, but I don't really feel like it's responsible to fire anything rifled in my area (have some space, but houses within 1/4 mile) and besides, aiming is often a little iffy in the early twilight (at least for my eyes).  This is only after they beat the fencing.  Beating them with a stick isn;t working either.  

So I'm between the Remington 870 and the Mossberg 500, both seem to have their advocates.  I'm really looking for something simple, reliable, that isn't going to mind sitting in a closet for 3 months at a time (between groundhogs).  Probably just a 20ga.

Most of the stuff online is promotional, but I figure there are probably a few owners out there in hearth land who might have personal experience.

Thanks
Steve


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## Mercury (Aug 18, 2008)

I've have experience with both brands.  Let me qualify the following by stating I'm not a gunsmith or expert by any means, just a casual clay pigeon shooter.  Owned several different incarnations of the 870 - in 12 and 20 gauge.  Also own a Mossberg 500 12 gauge.  Haven't had any real trouble with any of them.  The Remingtons feel better built - actions are tighter and feed smoother.  The one problem that comes to mind is a 20 gauge 870 Wingmaster didn't like a particular type of cheap Winchester shell and wouldn't want to eject the spent shell.  I think that had more to do with the tolerance to which the shells were made than the shotgun.  Overall the I like the Remington 870 better than the Mossberg 500.  The Mossberg will probably be a little less expensive, but I haven't priced shotguns in awhile.  Moving into the city makes clay pigeon shooting in the backyard a no no.  I'd think either one would be fine for what you want to do.

I'd say a good comparison is Briggs & Stratton vs. Kohler small engines.  In my limited experience the Kohler engine is a little better and a little more money, but the Briggs will get the job done too.  Good luck and be safe.


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## glacialhills (Aug 18, 2008)

I am a Remington 870 owner and like it.I had to carry a moss burg 12 for dock security in the navy and I feel that they are cheaply made and have very loose tolerances in comparison. If I was just getting a shot gun for varmint in the garden though, I would get a used single shot for a 100 bucks or less. and if penetration and ricochet and close neighbors worry you go with a 410 or 28 gauge and use a light dove or trap load. I used to keep a single shot outside near my chicken coop for raiders(Loaded but safely in a hidden place) it was exposed to the elements 24/7 and would get totally rusty but would fire every time. got quite a few weasels and coons not having to go all the way back to the house.A single shot is a lot more reliable gun than a pump or semi auto if left uncleaned for long periods of time. and really do you need more than one shot? either the varmint is gonna be pushing up daisies or making tracks thru em after the first shot.


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## d.n.f. (Aug 18, 2008)

Ditto on the actions.  If it is going to sit and you are not going to baby it, and need to grab it quickly after it has been sitting all winter, get a single or double shot (over/under of double barrel).  Nothing beats them for reliability.

I have never had a Mossberg, but Remington seem like ok guns.  Have had a Rem .22 and a 12 gauge and they both were good guns for what I paid for them.  Not great but good.  To step up to great you need to pay way more.


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## colebrookman (Aug 18, 2008)

If it's just to protect your garden and not animals I would go with trapping or an electric fence, maybe solar powered. Shot guns are loud and neighbors are edgy these days about gun fire, plus guns only work if you are home while traps or fencing work 24/7.
Ed


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## the_dude (Aug 18, 2008)

The Remington 870 is the best selling shotgun in history for a reason, and its not just price.  It is a well built, extremely dependable gun.  I have handled many 870's without a single issue.  I have handled a few Mossberg's, and they all seem to have an issue or two.  My friend recently won a brand new 500.  I place a 2 3/4" shell in it, and when I pulled the trigger, nothing.  Not even a click.  Then I couldn't eject the shell.

As far as going with a cheap single shot, I would advise against it.  Many of the cheap single shot guns are not terribly accurate, nor do they pattern well.  And they will most certainly not be more reliable than the 870.  For an over/under worth its weight in firewood, you will be spending far more than the 870.  An 870 will not simply stop working because it sat in the closest for 3 months.  Unless you are keeping it in a steam room, you will likely never have an issue.  I thin coat of Rem oil on the outside every few months or so will likely keep the gun looking fine for as long as you need it.  And with the amount of shooting you will be doing, breaking it down for a full cleaning will rarely be a necessity.  870's are a simple design and well built.  

Now, for gauge, I would definately go with 20.  I would not go with .410 or 28 gauge simply becasue of the cost of amunition.  Neither gauge are as popular as a 20 gauge, making shells much more expensive than shells for a 20.  Also, if you are using bird shot, you won't have much of an issue with shot going too far.  Just remember, know your target and beyond.


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## glacialhills (Aug 18, 2008)

OK, first off you should never be shooting a gun unless you have practiced with it and really know what you are doing. So lets get that out there first.If its dark out and you cant see what your shooting at or know what is beyond the intended target, you shouldn't be shooting. I will now assume that the person using the gun will be safe about it. Now as for a single shot not being as accurate as a Remington 870...I love my 870 it is a great gun. But I don't use it because it is the most accurate gun out there. A single shot shot gun will be, on the whole, the most accurate of any gun. No action to foul, no loose chamber to have to rack into. just a barrel and a shell. I killed my first deer at thirty yards with my little single shot .410 with a rifled slug and it drop right in its tracks. I have killed many MANY squirrels in the tops of trees with that same single shot .410. Many big game hunters use a single shot rifle in Africa or Alaska on safari to kill the biggest game out there...why? because it is the most accurate action there is. The original question was what is a good cheap reliable gun to use to get critters eating a garden. I still say for 80-100 bucks you cant go wrong with a simple single shot. 

410 shells are not more expensive than 20 or 12 gauge either.28 gauge might be less available but are still not expensive. and I have yet to see a shell of any gauge that wont work in a single shot chamber. not the case with bolt action,pump action, or semi auto. Don't know where they are more expensive, but I would stop shopping there. If you are not wanting a gun for the varmints try a live trap then you will be able to beat them with a stick as you have tried before and might have better success once they are in a trap LOL. good luck and please what ever you decide be safe.


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## the_dude (Aug 18, 2008)

Glacialhills said:
			
		

> OK, first off you should never be shooting a gun unless you have practiced with it and really know what you are doing. So lets get that out there first.If its dark out and you cant see what your shooting at or know what is beyond the intended target, you shouldn't be shooting. I will now assume that the person using the gun will be safe about it. Now as for a single shot not being as accurate as a Remington 870...I love my 870 it is a great gun. But I don't use it because it is the most accurate gun out there. A single shot shot gun will be, on the whole, the most accurate of any gun. No action to foul, no loose chamber to have to rack into. just a barrel and a shell. I killed my first deer at thirty yards with my little single shot .410 with a rifled slug and it drop right in its tracks. I have killed many MANY squirrels in the tops of trees with that same single shot .410. Many big game hunters use a single shot rifle in Africa or Alaska on safari to kill the biggest game out there...why? because it is the most accurate action there is. The original question was what is a good cheap reliable gun to use to get critters eating a garden. I still say for 80-100 bucks you cant go wrong with a simple single shot.
> 
> 410 shells are not more expensive than 20 or 12 gauge either.28 gauge might be less available but are still not expensive. and I have yet to see a shell of any gauge that wont work in a single shot chamber. not the case with bolt action,pump action, or semi auto. Don't know where they are more expensive, but I would stop shopping there. If you are not wanting a gun for the varmints try a live trap then you will be able to beat them with a stick as you have tried before and might have better success once they are in a trap LOL. good luck and please what ever you decide be safe.



I'm sorry, but I must respectfully disagree with some of your assessment.  Bore, barrel, and choke tolerances as well as quality of materials used in production have far more to do with accuracy than style of action in a shotgun.  

I do not doubt that you had an accurate single shot .410 shotgun.  I had a fairly accurate 20 gauge single shot growing up.  My point was, if you buy an $80 single shot, I would not have the same faith that this particular gun was made with the same manufacturing tolerances or quality of materials of a Remington 870.  I therefore believe you stand a much better chance of ending up with a shotgun that is not terribly accurate with the cheaper single shot.  Again,  back to the point of the question.  If anyone tells me they are looking for a cheap, reliable shotgun, my advice will be 870 everytime.  The reliability factor really doesn't hold here when comparing the 870 to a single shot.  First off, the 870 is extremely reliable.  Second, if this is a critter gun, I would bet money it will never be used enough to fail anyway (the only 870's I have ever seen fail have 1000's of rounds through them, which isn't likely in this case).

I looked up price of shells, and you were right.  There isn't as much spread in price as I thought.  Federal Premium Gold Medals run about $10 for 25 rounds where as the .410 and 28 run about $12 for the same thing.  However, due to availability, I think I would still go with the 20 gauge.

I also agree with your on the safety issues.  The author mentions not being able to see well in low light conditions.  For God's sake, don't shoot!  Again, know your target and beyond.


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## webbie (Aug 18, 2008)

I liked my crossman pump-up BB rifle, but I gave it away.....too dangerous.
 :red: 

It had killed one mouse and one chipmunk (who was wounded by my dog)......and also did away with a lot of tomatoes and tin cans.


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## JustWood (Aug 18, 2008)

Mercury said:
			
		

> I've have experience with both brands.  Let me qualify the following by stating I'm not a gunsmith or expert by any means, just a casual clay pigeon shooter.  Owned several different incarnations of the 870 - in 12 and 20 gauge.  Also own a Mossberg 500 12 gauge.  Haven't had any real trouble with any of them.  The Remingtons feel better built - actions are tighter and feed smoother.  The one problem that comes to mind is a 20 gauge 870 Wingmaster didn't like a particular type of cheap Winchester shell and wouldn't want to eject the spent shell.  I think that had more to do with the tolerance to which the shells were made than the shotgun.  Overall the I like the Remington 870 better than the Mossberg 500.  The Mossberg will probably be a little less expensive, but I haven't priced shotguns in awhile.  Moving into the city makes clay pigeon shooting in the backyard a no no.  I'd think either one would be fine for what you want to do.
> 
> I'd say a good comparison is Briggs & Stratton vs. Kohler small engines.  In my limited experience the Kohler engine is a little better and a little more money, but the Briggs will get the job done too.  Good luck and be safe.




I have both also and have the same sentiments . I'm a Remington man but Mossberg is a close second. I've had the same ejection issue with my Moss . If your just gettin rid of unwanteds buy the cheaper one. You'll be happy.


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## the_dude (Aug 18, 2008)

Webmaster said:
			
		

> I liked my crossman pump-up BB rifle, but I gave it away.....too dangerous.
> :red:
> 
> It had killed one mouse and one chipmunk (who was wounded by my dog)......and also did away with a lot of tomatoes and tin cans.



I still have the Crossman Pumpmaster 760 in my gun safe!  It was my brother's growing up, and somehow it ended up in my hands.  Many a bird and squirrel fell to that gun!


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## burntime (Aug 18, 2008)

Remington gets my vote.  I bought a 870 Remington Super Mag Maxx Gobbler, thats code for a camo 3 1/2 inch 12 gauge with an AR stock.  I shot a couple boxs of the 3 1/2 thru it and 2 3/4 target loads and never a hiccup.  My brother has a mossberg and it just seems to rattle!  Not to knock it cause it still shoots but with a shotgun its not like your getting 1 moa accuracy with buckshot :lol:   Get the one that feels the best to you.  My next shotgun will be an over/under ruger red label or browning citori.


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## saichele (Aug 18, 2008)

Thanks all - I want to make a note on the "visibility" issues.  It's mostly a peculiarity of aging eyes.  In college I was on the rifle team and could reliably hit a dime.  the last couple years, I have a hell of a time getting everything (especially the sights up close and the target at some distance) lined up, worse in low light.  An air rifle is basically the same problem.  I did some trap shooting years ago, so I've used a shotgun, just never took much interest.  Definitely don't shoot randomly - more in the one shot, one kill school.  So actually I like the idea of the single shot or over/under, hadn't really considered that but it has to be more reliable if seldom used.  I'll shop around that market a bit and see what's common.

Thanks
Steve


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## the_dude (Aug 19, 2008)

Steve said:
			
		

> it has to be more reliable if seldom used.



I have never seen any shotgun fail due to under use, so that is not a factor in whatever decision you make.  As long as you keep it in a dry place, it will be fine.  Typically, shotguns fail due to heavy use combined with lack of cleaning and maintenance.  Good luck with your choice.  I strongly suggest putting it to paper when you do get a shotgun, so you know where it hits and how it patterns with your ammo of choice.


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## Adios Pantalones (Aug 19, 2008)

I have had a Moss 500 for many years and never had an issue with it.  It is a bit sloppier on action tolerances, but not (IMO) on accuracy.  In fact- I always thought that part of it's reliability had to do with the idea that a little crap in the action would not cause as much an issue as with a gun with tighter tolerance (as per the AK47).  However- the Rem does just "feel" more solid.


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## Backroads (Aug 20, 2008)

*I TOO have an old pumpmaster 760 in my gun safe * My father gave is to me when I was 7, it seems like an eternity ago.  Anyways, I have used or owned both the guns you are comparing and for varmit in the garden NEITHER is a good choice!  I suggest a good new break barrell pellet gun.  They shoot 1000fps and can take out most varmit.  I just recently bought a Semi Rem .22 LR from a sporting goods store.  I shot it 3 times and the bolt action started to fall apart and it's been sent back to Rem and they've had it for 5 weeks now!  I'm less than pleased with the service because I have a Rem 1187 I absolutely love and hope I never have to send it in for warranty work.


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## Adios Pantalones (Aug 20, 2008)

Backroads- a Ruger 1022 is the way to go (IMO) if you want a 22 cal semi.  I shoot Rem subsonic rounds out of mine- the gun drives tacks with them and they are quieter.  I play Lee Harvey Oswald out the bathroom window on groundhogs that won't go in the Havahart with it.


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## velvetfoot (Aug 20, 2008)

All the gardeners around here are talking about groundhogs this year.


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## webbie (Aug 20, 2008)

When I was a teenage vandal, I bought heavy rubber bands at the stationary store, and used them to shoot BB's like a slingshot.....could hit a streetlight from 30 yards, easy. Human powered, no powder needed. If the cavemen would have had these things, the Neanderthal would still be ruling the world.


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## d.n.f. (Aug 20, 2008)

Take a look at this:

http://www.tcarms.com/firearms/encore.php


There used to be a smallish .22/12gauge over under made by somebody (this was a long time ago, maybe Ruger???).

This might solve your problems and give you two guns in one.


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## mikeathens (Aug 20, 2008)

I have two 870's - a 2 3/4" chambered left hand wingmaster (20 ga) from the late 70's/early 80's, and a 870 express magnum 12-ga.  I like them both.  The wingmaster was my fist gun I bought witn I was 13.

I also have to H&R;single shots - a 12-ga and 20-ga.  I have no problem with the single shots either.  I paid $25 for the 20 ga and have killed many cowbirds and two raccoons with it.  For garden duty, the single shots are perfectly fine.  This isn't an Olympic competition!  the pattern might not be perfect, but it is a perfectly usable shotgun.

The 870s are very reliable, if you need more firepower.  Don't know much about Mossberg 500, but a friend of mine had one growing up, and it worked just fine.


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## oilstinks (Aug 23, 2008)

870 has my vote but in all honesty i think either will serve you well. I would keep it 20gauge or smaller though and 20 probably being too much but then you might by 20gauge shells cheaper than any thing else also.


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## jeff6443 (Aug 23, 2008)

Now we are talking I have Both . They shoot the same and I never clean them  work guns   , they work .  My Glock 23 carry gun , Yea I know . NJ    WE CANT DO THAT .  
  Clean as a whistel . One for a purpose  . One for a reason  
.


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## gary (Aug 23, 2008)

Gotta chime in on this one.  I own several shotguns Browning, Remington, even a Smith & Wesson but the one I keep close at hand for dispatching skunks and the occasional copperhead around the farmstead is a no name bolt action 410.  Gets the job done and is simple enough to teach the wife how to use.

Best thing I've found to keep varmints out of the garden (coons are the worst in my case) is a small electric fencer (@$25.00 at Tractor Supply).  Run one strand of wire 4"-6" off the ground and a second strand 6"- 8" above the first.  Works like a charm.

By the way, the 22 cal./shotgun combo is a Savage.


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## savageactor7 (Aug 23, 2008)

Both are excellent shotguns, of the 2 I prefer Remington mostly cause I have more exposure to them...btw way I own 2 Ithaca's. Another way to rid your garden from critters is to pick up so human hair from your barber and spread it around the garden...once you spread it that hair is always on station doing its duty...even when you sleep.


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## Cluttermagnet (Aug 23, 2008)

gary said:
			
		

> Best thing I've found to keep varmints out of the garden (coons are the worst in my case) is a small electric fencer (@$25.00 at Tractor Supply).  Run one strand of wire 4"-6" off the ground and a second strand 6"- 8" above the first.  Works like a charm.


Including deer? Shooting is not an option for garden pests where I live. I'll probably be starting a vegetable garden next spring. I was thinking I'd be needing 5-sided netting all round to keep Bambi out. 3-level electric fence maybe? Or does Bambi outsmart me by simply jumping an electric fence? BTW we have all the garden pests here. Many raccoons, woodchucks, possums, rabbits, chipmunks, squirrels, mice etc. to be found. You name it, we got it. But we're absolutely overrun with deer.

Oh, the Remington 870 express 12 gage was highly recommended to my by a hunter friend as the best all round choice- for some types of hunting, skeet and trap, even home defense for those not trained in sidearms. BTW I found out that skeet are not good eating.  ;-)


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## 11 Bravo (Aug 23, 2008)

Go with the 870. I have a 500, but carry an 870 in the cruiser and wish I had gotten a Remington for home instead of the Mossberg. I know ya didn't mention this, but if you wanna trick it out, get add ons, change barrels, extend the magazine tube, etc, etc, it will be easier with the 870. IMHO


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## gary (Aug 23, 2008)

Cluttermagnet said:
			
		

> gary said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



For deer, I use an 8 ft. net fence.  Got it from Lowes and it's @ $15.00 for a 100 ft. roll.  I mount it on PVC pipe slipped over a fence post.  This is my second year using it and it works.  Deer have nibbled at plants around the edge but that's as far as they go.  Lowes even labels it as "Deer Fence".


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## mikeathens (Aug 24, 2008)

11 Bravo said:
			
		

> Go with the 870. I have a 500, but carry an 870 in the cruiser



I assume this is what you're talking about?  I don't have one of these, but I am assuming that you have some type of scabbard or something?  Very cool.


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## BJ64 (Aug 24, 2008)

My wife has the Mossberg 590 in a version called the "speed feed 9" for an anti varmit and home protection device.  For what ever reason she thought the old S& W relvolver with .38 158 grain wad cutters was too much for her.  I was rather shocked when she came back with an all black, plastic stocked 12 guage with heat shield and bayonet lug.   

With No. 4 shot it is a good varmit gun.  With a full tube of 8 shells the recoil is not bad even with hi brass ammo.  I like the Rem 870 better in the look and feel department but but I have no problems using the 590 in a hi stakes situation.  

Somebody dumped 3 large dogs that appeared to have pit bull features near the house last summer.  One of our kids passed a shed where these dogs decided to make camp that night.  One of the dogs made an aggressive growl that sent the kid climbing onto something tall.  When I arrived with the 590 to see what the yelling was about, one of the dogs was making a move towards me.  I shot it twice and was alerted to the other two.  At that point I was thinking there could be 6 or 7 more.  Any way long story short, it took longer to make sure the area was safe than it did to make it safe.  

Anyway, that is how I conclude that I have a lot of faith in the 590.


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## 11 Bravo (Aug 24, 2008)

That's the model ! I even have the sissy bar 'cept mine is painted white........


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## pybyr (Aug 24, 2008)

I have  a short answer for all of you'nn .... Buy a Winchester 1897 or "97"  or Chinese copy of same, pump action shotgun.  

Fill Magazine with appropriate loads of the right lead/powder charge.  

Find target.  Pull trigger.  Hold trigger.  

Wrack pump action witnout pause 

( no disconnector to require you to let go of trigger between shots) .  

As long as you wrack the pump action back and forth, LOTSO' lead will ensue out the muzzle, WITHOUT interruption.  

Repels, and deceases, varmints of two-footed and four-footed types like __nothin__' ever yet invented by many. except maybe by Hiram Maxim.

The cranky old timber cruiser who sold me my raggedy but fully functional Winchester 1897 didn't call it the "Farmer's Friend" without reason


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## dlpz (Aug 24, 2008)

Winchester 1300 Marine Defender

Best darn 12 ga. I've ever owned, never had a problem with it and it has taken a beating.  Dropped in a creek etc.

I personally don't like the pump action of the Mossberg.

Remington 870 is a great gun because you can buy more barrels and chokes for hunting etc.

But if you want a gun for sitting in closet until its needed the Winchester 1300 Marine Defender is a great gun for the dollar.


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## BJ64 (Aug 26, 2008)

pybyr said:
			
		

> I have  a short answer for all of you'nn .... Buy a Winchester 1897 or "97"  or Chinese copy of same, pump action shotgun.
> 
> Fill Magazine with appropriate loads of the right lead/powder charge.
> 
> ...



LOL.  That reminds me of the night my Dad blew the you-know-what out of mom's clothes line.  It was no wonder I looked like an orphan going to school back then.


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## burntime (Aug 26, 2008)

I have the ruger 10-22 as well, 22 years old.  I have a 30 dollar red dot and can shoot bottle caps at 25 yards time and time again both facing and on edge, sure sometimes you miss but that is truly a point and shoot format.  You could use shorties and hand cycle them to take care of garden varmin.  I also use the sheridan pellet gun.  Drops chippies at 40 yards.  There is no bad choice as long as you are safe and proficient.   Heck even a live trap and a garbage can of water will work.  You can do the math to figure that one out.  I have taken 40 plus chipmunk at my place in the burbs and finally have them under control.  By the way Bravo, you guys have the best stuff, 9mm home protection on an xd-9 v-10, speer lawman in a 17 rounder... is this the right bullet or is there a more expansive round that would be stopped by the second sheet of drywall and still make bad guys go away?


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## Adios Pantalones (Aug 26, 2008)

The 12 ga is great for home defense because the noise of racking will send them packing.  By that logic- I should just keep the chainsaw at the ready


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## burntime (Aug 26, 2008)

At my house the 285lb guy in his birthday suit coming at them would probably do more damage! :lol:  There are very few people that would wrestle with a naked guy!


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## Adios Pantalones (Aug 26, 2008)

Expect Larry Craig to break into your house now.


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## burntime (Aug 26, 2008)

That give a whole new meaning to the phrase, "he's reaching for his piece!"


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## spot (Aug 26, 2008)

I sell sporting goods for a living...shotguns included.

Either gun is a good choice, both manufacturers are known for their quality.

Parts and accessories are easy to come by for both guns.

Any gunsmith will be able to repair/modify/inspect/adjust/clean either gun.

The Remington *870 Express *is going to cost more than the *Mossberg 500.*

The Remington is built heavier than the Mossberg, more "rugged" - but weighs more.

The Remington has a flat-black finish and kinda plain wood, the Mossberg is blued and has nicer wood.
(unless you choose the 870 Wingmaster which is blued and very nice wood)

The Remington has its safety on the side down by the trigger, the Mossberg has its safety on the top.

Both come in 410, 20, and 12-gauge.

Both come in a 3 1/2 version (if you want even more shoulder-pain) the Remington 870 Super-mag and the Mossberg 835.

Both will easily accept a "slug" barrel.  (for shooting deer in states that don't allow rifle-hunting)

It boils down to what is important to you....

How much do you want to spend?
How much do you want the gun to weigh?
How "pretty" do you want the gun to be?


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## Cluttermagnet (Aug 27, 2008)

Adios Pantalones said:
			
		

> The 12 ga is great for home defense because the noise of racking will send them packing.  By that logic- I should just keep the chainsaw at the ready


That is *exactly * what my hunter mentor told me. His point: that sound during a home invasion rarely leads to shots fired. Instead, you get a lot of gnashing gears and screeching tires (metaphorically) as your would-be assailants/ burglars hightail it outa there.


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## BJ64 (Aug 27, 2008)

Cluttermagnet said:
			
		

> Adios Pantalones said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Point well made.  As for our in house nut case who chooses the Stihl 440 for home defense, can you imagine crooks wondering 
*why the heck did they pick Jason's home to invade!*  :ahhh: 

Just kidding about the in house nut case.


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## mranum (Aug 28, 2008)

spot said:
			
		

> I sell sporting goods for a living...shotguns included.
> 
> Either gun is a good choice, both manufacturers are known for their quality.
> 
> ...





Agree completely but the last 3 are the most important things to consider.

My .02....
I've used the 870 and have owned a 500 for the last 25 years with no complaints.  But, when it comes to taking care of the occasional critter/pest I use either my H&R;410 single shot or my Winchester 9422.


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## 11 Bravo (Aug 28, 2008)

Burntime, I carry Glock model 22, 40 cal, and a model 27, 40 cal, as backup....the magazines are interchangable. We DID carry the Winchester Ranger and Hydra-shok ammo until our last shooting. We had a shooting where we fired alot of rounds through a windshield and a car door.....Subsequent post mortem showed the rounds broke apart and lost allot of mass going through glass and the door sheet metal. Training unit took the guys car and a dummy and mapped every single round fired to find out why this guy made it as far as he did. Unit purchased doors and glass and used ballistic gelatin and determined we needed ammo with a molecular bond. We now use the .40 cal Remington Golden Sabre and Speer Gold Dot Bonded ammo. Our tests show they hold there mass after passing through the glass or doors. (I didn't give away any secrets, all available with a FOIA)
For plinking nuisance stuff and home defense, ya can't beat a Glock. They strip easily and ya can't break them. Plus for about $200, a .22 cal temporary conversion kit is available for cheaper plinking or challenging small game hunting.


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## burntime (Aug 29, 2008)

I currently have 124 grain speer lawman I think in my xd-9 v-10.  Guess it will serve its purpose.  Mine is a plinker and home protection.  If you want cheap and fun I bought a beretta neus .22, I have a holosight on it and it is a blast.  Sure only a 10 round clip but it is as much a tack driver as my ruger 10/22 for sure!  I like the glock, just went towards the xd for some reason.  I went with the 9mm over 40 and 45 for cheap plinking.  I made the mistake of buying a ruger super redhawk 44 mag as my first handgun.  Thats what I learned to shoot pistol with.  I know, its amazing I did not develope a twitch


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## reconner (Aug 29, 2008)

Ah, this brings back memories of my father-in-law sitting on his porch in a nightshirt with his single shot .410 and taking out a the racoons that tried to enter his chicken shed.  But enough of that.

I've never shot a Mossberg, but I've had my trusty 870 for almost 20 years and its never failed me.  But unless you're thinking about blasting away at the critters as they run after your first shot (which might not be the best idea) my advice would be to head to your local gun shop (or Wal-Mart) and pick up one a New England Firearms or H&R;single shots for under $100, because they're (1) cheap (2) light and (3) super reliable.


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## archer292 (Aug 31, 2008)

Remington before Mossberg, Browning before both and Berreta before that and maybe a Benelli if you want to be different.
The guy who compared a Red Label to a citori, not even close.


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## ccwhite (Nov 24, 2008)

I know a lot of guys love them damned Remingtons but I'm just not one of them. I have 2 Mossbergs in the gun room and I got rid of the only Remington I ever owned. 

I heard a story years ago about a Mossberg shotgun. I live in a steel mill community and one of the local steel mills has a Mossberg 12ga shotgun that they use at the blast furnace. I don't know the particular job that this shot gun does but it is used a couple times a day, everyday. It is never cleaned and it is abused just like they rest of the tools. Apparently after many many years and countless thousands of rounds put through that gun something broke. Someone from the mill called Mossberg to get a replacement and Mossberg said they wanted the old gun and sent a new gun to replace it. That old beat up shotgun is now in Mossberg's museum. 

Anyway I've found my Mossberg's to be very reliable and capable. One guy earlier had mentioned that he carried a Mossberg in the Navy. You'll also find that a lot of law enforcement carry Mossberg. Our military is very strict about the tests a firearm must pass to get a military contract. Just some food for thought.

I also would say that a 410ga would be fine for just popping some whistle pigs out in the garden and less noise for the neighbors to squawk about.


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## govmule84 (Nov 24, 2008)

As far as the guy above...I think they use shotties to clean the crap off the walls of furnaces.  

As far as the gun...870.  Wealth of aftermarket accessories, and they are like the 1911 of shotguns - EVERYONE knows how to work on them.  Although, I must say, the Maverick 88 (made by Mossberg, though I think in Mexico) looks pretty affordable.  

My ex had a Mossberg 500, and I could never get it together quickly - it never seemed intuitive to me.  My 870 was my workhorse, though...I put that gun through its paces, and man, it just kept on runnin'.

My two cents.


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## Dill (Nov 24, 2008)

I have a Browing BPS and a Winchester 1300. For some reason I just need to be different. The BPS is a great gun but pricey. And the 1300 has very little aftermarket support, I finally found a slug barrel this year.
Between the 2 I'd go 870 in 12 ga. Think of a shotgun as a swiss army knife, they can do most anything. And between the remington and wide variety of 12 ga loads, there isn't it much that it won't be able to handle.


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