10 states plan to sue the EPA over standards for residential wood-burning stoves

[armanidog]

Wow! I wonder how they'll verify?

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[begreen]

@begreen Is the post quoted above political?

It was heading that way, thus the cautionary responses that followed. We're really trying to keep this discussion about the pending lawsuit and not drift off into the weeds.

 

[begreen]

“If newer wood heaters do not meet cleaner standards, then programs to change out old wood heaters may provide little health benefits at significant public cost,” the states wrote Thursday in a 60-day notice of intent to sue.

This seems disingenuous. The stove changeout programs that I have read about are targeting pre-EPA stoves, not stoves made in 2011 or 2015. And often the changeout programs offer an alternative like a pellet stove. That is a magnitude improvement. Well-run programs have shown a notable improvement in air quality and appreciable health benefits. Case in point, Libby, MT.

Libby MT | Successful Woodstove Changeouts | HPBA

 

[StoveInNH]

It was heading that way, thus the cautionary responses that followed. We're really trying to keep this discussion about the pending lawsuit and not drift off into the weeds.

As long as the same rules apply to mods, that's great. I appreciate your effort!

 

[Todd]

I think more and better education would be better than more regulations. Too many people burning wet wood, improper setups, dead cats ect.

 

[StoveInNH]

I think more and better education would be better than more regulations. Too many people burning wet wood, improper setups, dead cats ect.

Excellent.

 

[SpaceBus]

I think the intent of the EPA regulation is to make a stove as clean as possible regardless of the operator skill. This is my theory as to why we are seeing more hybrid stoves, single burn rate, thermostats, etc. By tightening the emissions standards the stove Mfgs are forced to design a stove that in the worst case scenario is still much cleaner than what came before.

 

[begreen]

I think the intent of the EPA regulation is to make a stove as clean as possible regardless of the operator skill. This is my theory as to why we are seeing more hybrid stoves, single burn rate, thermostats, etc. By tightening the emissions standards the stove Mfgs are forced to design a stove that in the worst case scenario is still much cleaner than what came before.

It's known that a key flaw in that approach is maintenance and fuel. Unless the firewood industry is regulated for moisture content, many sellers will continue to sell wood that is >25% MC. Additionally, user maintenance for wood stoves is often quite poor. It wouldn't surprise me if over half of the catalytic stove installs now have dead cats in them. The way to really control wood burning emissions says pellet stoves to me and they too are often poorly maintained.

Document Display | NEPIS | US EPA

nepis.epa.gov

 

[moresnow]

I think more and better education would be better than more regulations. Too many people burning wet wood, improper setups, dead cats ect.

True

 

[ABMax24]

For me, the scary part in all this is where does the EPA go next? I'm concerned they'll start off with a knee jerk reaction to further restrict wood stove emissions that could very easily bring an end to the simple wood stove as we know it.

In theory a diesel pickup and a new 2020 EPA wood stove emit roughly the same amount of emissions per hour while operating. I've still yet to see a diesel pickup that requires a yearly scrubbing of the exhaust pipe to remove contaminants. In practice the current lab based emissions measuring techniques to quantify emissions doesn't correctly translate to real world emissions, at least not without multiplying by some factor of X. Modern stoves are orders of magnitude cleaner than those of decades ago, but still not at the "2.5 grams per hour" they claim to be.