Red light from control box Mt Vernon Quadra Fire

[thegirlfromgaleairy]

Hello all,
I purchased a used Mt Vernon this winter, and it is essentially my only source of heat. The exhaust blower is on its last legs, the bearing is shot and it is very loud. However, since it is still - 20 degrees celsius, I have kept the stove running, albeit at the lowest setting, and have just noticed that the light from the control box is glowing red, not green. Every time I turn the stove off to clean it, I have a great deal of trouble getting it going again. Today, I had to remove the exhaust blower and clean it out, then put it back in, turn the stove on to the highest setting and eventually the exhaust blower started again. I have ordered a new one, but it will be 2 more weeks before it is scheduled to arrive. I am torn between turning the stove off and freezing, and leaving it running and burning out the control box. Any advice would be helpful!
Thanks,
Michelle

Maybe what I'm asking is for some help interpreting the manual:
The manual states that the internal light of the control box will turn green when the appliance has reached a temperature of 200 degrees F (93 degrees celcius) in the firepot and will turn red when it reaches 600 degrees F (315 degrees C).
So maybe a red light from the control box is normal? Or is this just wishful thinking on my part?
M

 

[reallyte]

Red on my quad means it's calling for heat. Sounds normal to me.

 

[DMKNLD]

Welcome to the forum Michelle, and yes, your wishful thinking is fortuitous for you, for the time being at least ! From your manual description you quoted, I assume you have the non-AE model Mount Vernon. I would suggest you add that info to your signature section of your profile so other members know what stove brand and model you have. The upper right corner of the forum page has a drop-down under your screen name, where you can add stove info under the Signature section. Another helpful thing is to include your stove brand and model in the title of your thread post, to better catch the eye of other folks who have that stove type and can often best help you.

The red and green lights in your control box are the 'proof of fire' indicators, that are connected via the thermo-couple (TC) sensor - the thing that sticks out into your burn pot. After the initial dump of pellets ignites, and the TC senses the pellets have ignited enough to get to 200 F, the green light will come on in the control box, then the control board will start your auger cycle to continue feeding pellets.

When the TC reads that the burn pot temp has reached 600 F then the red light comes on in the control box, indicating normal operating temps have been reached, followed shortly thereafter by the room air / convection blower turning on via closing of another temp sensor near the top of your firebox, the #1 snap disc. So the red light is normal. When the stove begins the shut down process, then the green light will eventually come back on after the pellets have stopped feeding and the pellets are burning at < 600 F. I apologize for my inability to translate that to Celsius !

When you say "you have trouble getting it going again" after stopping your stove to clean it, is it just the exhaust blower that doesn't want to run, or does it not want to ignite the pellets, does it not continue to feed the pellets ? A failing exhaust motor can cause other burn issues ie problems with maintaining enough negative vacuum pressure, lazy flame issues, excessive ash build-up, etc. So elaborate a bit more what happens and we can maybe help identify if there might be something else going on besides your potentially failing exhaust blower.

If your exhaust blower is making grinding or whining noises, and more than likely has resistance when you manually spin the fan blades, then yes your blower is probably on its last gasps. Generally, the Quad blowers are said to be 'non-serviceable', meaning you can't oil them as a regular maintenance thing. But I was able to temporarily lubricate the worn out bearings in my original blower by squirting some light motor oil into the bearing and shaft area, to keep it working until my replacement blower came. 3-in-1 makes a motor oil specifically for small motors that comes in a blue can that is available at hardware or auto parts stores. http://www.3inone.com/products/motor-oil/

One concern about taking your blower in and out multiple times is that the blowers gasket seal can get damaged, which can leak exhaust smoke into your house. Safety first ! Make sure you have functioning CO and smoke detectors in the room !! Generally whenever you remove the exhaust blower for cleaning or maintenance you should replace the gasket, though some newer style gaskets they're making now for some Quad models are re-usable. Not sure if they make one for the non-AE MV yet.

Lastly, you should keep your old exhaust blower after you replace it and take it to a machine shop, or someone who has small motor repair knowledge, and they can replace the bearings in it inexpensively, so you will have it as a spare for the next time. Arguably the most likely part to replace over time on a pellet stove given the heat and constant running that it has to endure.

Good luck, and keep us posted !

 

[stmar]

My blower motor was going out also, I ran it for about a week while waiting for the replacement. It sounded bad but it kept on blowing and everything worked okay. I played with different speed settings but in the end I just ran it like I normally do. On the bright side the new motor is very quiet and works great, hope you have the same experience.

 

[DMKNLD]

It's a bit of a crap shoot Michelle whether to recommend you just keep running it and hope it hangs in there until your new blower arrives, as stmar suggested. Or whether it is better to take it out again and try to temporarily oil it, that may keep it from seizing up until your new blower gets to you.

How long has it been grinding / whining? Hopefully others may chime in who've had experience with how long their failing exhaust blower motors hung in there before they finally crapped out. A common saying on this forum is "YMMV" - your mileage, or results, may vary.

 

[thegirlfromgaleairy]

Welcome to the forum Michelle, and yes, your wishful thinking is fortuitous for you, for the time being at least ! From your manual description you quoted, I assume you have the non-AE model Mount Vernon. I would suggest you add that info to your signature section of your profile so other members know what stove brand and model you have. The upper right corner of the forum page has a drop-down under your screen name, where you can add stove info under the Signature section. Another helpful thing is to include your stove brand and model in the title of your thread post, to better catch the eye of other folks who have that stove type and can often best help you.

The red and green lights in your control box are the 'proof of fire' indicators, that are connected via the thermo-couple (TC) sensor - the thing that sticks out into your burn pot. After the initial dump of pellets ignites, and the TC senses the pellets have ignited enough to get to 200 F, the green light will come on in the control box, then the control board will start your auger cycle to continue feeding pellets.

When the TC reads that the burn pot temp has reached 600 F then the red light comes on in the control box, indicating normal operating temps have been reached, followed shortly thereafter by the room air / convection blower turning on via closing of another temp sensor near the top of your firebox, the #1 snap disc. So the red light is normal. When the stove begins the shut down process, then the green light will eventually come back on after the pellets have stopped feeding and the pellets are burning at < 600 F. I apologize for my inability to translate that to Celsius !

When you say "you have trouble getting it going again" after stopping your stove to clean it, is it just the exhaust blower that doesn't want to run, or does it not want to ignite the pellets, does it not continue to feed the pellets ? A failing exhaust motor can cause other burn issues ie problems with maintaining enough negative vacuum pressure, lazy flame issues, excessive ash build-up, etc. So elaborate a bit more what happens and we can maybe help identify if there might be something else going on besides your potentially failing exhaust blower.

If your exhaust blower is making grinding or whining noises, and more than likely has resistance when you manually spin the fan blades, then yes your blower is probably on its last gasps. Generally, the Quad blowers are said to be 'non-serviceable', meaning you can't oil them as a regular maintenance thing. But I was able to temporarily lubricate the worn out bearings in my original blower by squirting some light motor oil into the bearing and shaft area, to keep it working until my replacement blower came. 3-in-1 makes a motor oil specifically for small motors that comes in a blue can that is available at hardware or auto parts stores. http://www.3inone.com/products/motor-oil/

One concern about taking your blower in and out multiple times is that the blowers gasket seal can get damaged, which can leak exhaust smoke into your house. Safety first ! Make sure you have functioning CO and smoke detectors in the room !! Generally whenever you remove the exhaust blower for cleaning or maintenance you should replace the gasket, though some newer style gaskets they're making now for some Quad models are re-usable. Not sure if they make one for the non-AE MV yet.

Lastly, you should keep your old exhaust blower after you replace it and take it to a machine shop, or someone who has small motor repair knowledge, and they can replace the bearings in it inexpensively, so you will have it as a spare for the next time. Arguably the most likely part to replace over time on a pellet stove given the heat and constant running that it has to endure.

Good luck, and keep us posted !

Hello and thanks for all the helpful information! Is is a non AE Mt Vernon and has been incredibly loud for the past ?month but now sounds like a turbine. I wear ear protection all the time now, that works. I'm glad the red light means go for now, although I have learned how to solder new copper pipes when they burst from freezing!
As long as the exhaust blower does not stop while I clean it, it starts up well, feed and ignition are ok, so vacuum must be adequate, but as soon as it stops, I must shock it into turning again, basically by setting at the highest setting and by repeatedly hitting and holding the reset button. So far, I have managed but don't think it will last much longer. When it stops next, I will oil it as you suggested. I was planning on having it repaired when the new one came in, for a backup, so thanks for confirming that thought. There is hardly any gasket left on it presently but hopefully the new one will include it. Otherwise, maybe high temperature silicone? I had ordered the part via a specialized store but they sent me the AE blower and it took five weeks so I decided to take matters into my own hands, always a daunting prospect when new to a machine so critical. Ironic that it should come from sunny California! It will find a good home here.
Once again, many thanks for the information and the reassurance to all who replied. Much appreciated,
Michelle

 

[DMKNLD]

Fingers crossed for you Michelle that your blower motor hangs in there, especially as this brutal winter grinds on no doubt for you in Ontario, as it does for all of us in the Eastern US !

Kap, screen name kappel15, is a Quad tech who posts regularly on here, (and is 'wicked sharp' as we say here in Maine, on all things Quad related), as are others on here who are more familiar with your particular MV Quad model and will hopefully chime in. But here's the gist of what I've read about on this commonly discussed forum topic.

Did you order a direct replacement / OEM blower motor, or an after-market one? The cheaper after-market blower motor replacement options typically come with just the motor, and don't include the blower housing. Being made to retrofit multiple stove brands often requires drilling out new holes in your stoves blower housing to match the after-market motor plate mounting holes. It can certainly be done, but requires more futzing and frustration working in an often confined space to drill.

RE blower gaskets, folks whose blowers have just a small circular disc gasket can often get away with using high temp silicone as a makeshift gasket, but it looks the non AE blower gasket has a large surface area to seal, (see pic below). This would be tough to get high temp silicone to seal evenly over that large of an area, as well as make a goopy mess to have to scrape off the next time you have to take out the blower to clean it. So I would probably not recommend going the silicone route.

If you ordered a direct replacement OEM blower it *should* come with the replacement gasket, but most often after-market blowers do not. Having an extra gasket or two on hand is always good for the annual maintenance recommended removal to clean it. Prices vary widely on the same gasket, from $6 to $36 on-line, so shop around to get the best deal.

If you've had your blower out at least once already and the gasket didn't disintegrate, it will *probably* last one more time if you decide to pull out the motor to oil it. Fingers crossed......

Below is a pic that is not your particular blower motor, but should have similar ports where you can try lubricating yours. It looks like your blower has a housing cover held on with 4 nuts that you need to take off to access the motor. Good luck, and let us know how things work out for you !

 

[thegirlfromgaleairy]

Hello DMKNLD,
I wanted to thank you for your post last night which I read just before retiring for the night, as you mentioned smoke and CO detectors. "Functional", I thought, "Good question". Sure enough, around 4 am the blower stopped and the smell of smoke woke me up, so I got it going again and the smoke cleared. Thanks to your input, I believe I was more alert to the possibility and knew what to do, otherwise I could have
easily slept through it. New detectors are now on the list of immediate purchases! I owe you.
I looked more closely at the part I ordered, and it is from QF, with ?reuseable gaskets, comes with the housing and the larger gasket also. I ordered from wood heat stoves and solar inc, and have attached a picture of the part. I have been removing the blower from the side, leaving the housing in place, so I think it is only the smaller gasket that is questionable. I did take the plastic cover off yesterday but did not notice any ports, but I must take a closer look now that I have seen the pictures you sent. In any case, I think I can get some oil into the bearing area (there is one closer to the fan blades, and another at the top?) using a syringe if necessary. So again, thanks for your early morning post and pictures; you have restored my faith in humanity and in technicians! And yes, since you mentioned it, I can see the importance of having one or two spare gaskets. Should the blower seize, is there a risk of an electrical fire or will the snap disks take care of that?

I have reached the conclusion that this is a dodgy situation, so I will take the blower out on Monday and try to get it rebuilt as quickly as possible, since I don't think I should leave the stove running unattended for any length of time. It now burns poorly on the lowest setting, so I have raised it to the next one and it seems to be burning cleaner - it might get me through the weekend! The weather will warm up, the new blower is scheduled to be shipped on Monday, so will arrive Friday at the earliest, Friday after at the latest. Worse case scenario, I will drain the water in the house until it comes or until the old one is rebuilt. It's only temporary.
Hoping spring comes to you soon down in Maine, and that you are feeling the heat in the mean time. Thanks again for all the information and for taking the time to share it with me. You don't know how much I appreciate, words are insufficient.
All the best,
Michelle

View attachment 154855 View attachment 154856[/quote]

Fingers crossed for you Michelle that your blower motor hangs in there, especially as this brutal winter grinds on no doubt for you in Ontario, as it does for all of us in the Eastern US !

Kap, screen name kappel15, is a Quad tech who posts regularly on here, (and is 'wicked sharp' as we say here in Maine, on all things Quad related), as are others on here who are more familiar with your particular MV Quad model and will hopefully chime in. But here's the gist of what I've read about on this commonly discussed forum topic.

Did you order a direct replacement / OEM blower motor, or an after-market one? The cheaper after-market blower motor replacement options typically come with just the motor, and don't include the blower housing. Being made to retrofit multiple stove brands often requires drilling out new holes in your stoves blower housing to match the after-market motor plate mounting holes. It can certainly be done, but requires more futzing and frustration working in an often confined space to drill.

RE blower gaskets, folks whose blowers have just a small circular disc gasket can often get away with using high temp silicone as a makeshift gasket, but it looks the non AE blower gasket has a large surface area to seal, (see pic below). This would be tough to get high temp silicone to seal evenly over that large of an area, as well as make a goopy mess to have to scrape off the next time you have to take out the blower to clean it. So I would probably not recommend going the silicone route.

If you ordered a direct replacement OEM blower it *should* come with the replacement gasket, but most often after-market blowers do not. Having an extra gasket or two on hand is always good for the annual maintenance recommended removal to clean it. Prices vary widely on the same gasket, from $6 to $36 on-line, so shop around to get the best deal.

If you've had your blower out at least once already and the gasket didn't disintegrate, it will *probably* last one more time if you decide to pull out the motor to oil it. Fingers crossed......

Below is a pic that is not your particular blower motor, but should have similar ports where you can try lubricating yours. It looks like your blower has a housing cover held on with 4 nuts that you need to take off to access the motor. Good luck, and let us know how things work out for you !

View attachment 154855 View attachment 154856

 

[kappel15]

Sounds like everyone is helping you as much as possible. Only thing I will add is to stay away from caulking to replace having a gasket. You will just have a nasty mess to try and clean up later. Sounds like the new blower comes with the reusable gasket, which is good. A little 3 in1 oil will help the motor last longer. And remember, a clean stove is a happy stove, and will run better, with less problems. Hope all goes well for you. Stay warm. kap

 

[DMKNLD]

Sure enough, around 4 am the blower stopped and the smell of smoke woke me up,.....

.....otherwise I could have easily slept through it. New detectors are now on the list of immediate purchases!

I have reached the conclusion that this is a dodgy situation.......,

Hi again Michelle,

So sorry you're having your stove issues, and wish we could do more to help you 'from afar'. But the above quotes from your previous post stick out most poignantly to me. More important than any stove tech advice I could give at this juncture, IMO, is advice regarding your personal safety. Appreciate that this is my 30+ years of a Paramedic / Emergency Services career 'talking' here......

CO poisoning issues are particularly insidious, where one of the major physiological effects is to alter a persons mental faculties - their judgement and problem solving capabilities, as well as making one prone to becoming sleepy and somnolent to the point that you may not have woken up last night. No 'trauma drama' or 'status dramaticus' hyperbole intended here. I've just responded to too many preventable death and disability calls from CO poisoning and structure fires over the course of my EMS career.

So, given that you have no other heat source other than your failing pellet stove, until you can at least get a combo smoke / CO alarm detector in your house, I can only in good conscience 'pull the safety card' and say you should not be running your stove, either attended or unattended, at the risk of you becoming a horrific story that we read about in your local on-line news feed. Here in the states, our local Fire Depts give away smoke and CO detectors that they get from grant money and detector manufacturer donations. I can only imagine that Canadian Fire Depts do the same, so you should contact your local FD if you can't get one on your own, TODAY, as in right now.

Call your non-emergency dispatch number and they can get you in touch with the on-call Fire Dept person. The fact that it's a weekend doesn't matter....thinking you're an inconvenience to them doesn't matter........what matters to them, and to me, and to the people on this forum, is foremost..... your personal safety. Emergency services folks particularly appreciate that denial is a powerful emotion.

Only if you can get some safety detectors in place, only then it is reasonable to try to oil your blower motor and see if that can keep your stove running until you can repair your failing blower or your new one arrives. But alternate plans to stay with area friends or family, as you said draining the water if you have to, in case the blower seizes up are certainly warranted. "Hope for the best, but *safely* and realistically plan for the worst" has got to be the mantra here, Michelle.

End of my "Paramedic" side talking ranting. We can certainly talk more about pellet stove stuff over the coming days.

 

[thegirlfromgaleairy]

Hi again Michelle,

So sorry you're having your stove issues, and wish we could do more to help you 'from afar'. But the above quotes from your previous post stick out most poignantly to me. More important than any stove tech advice I could give at this juncture, IMO, is advice regarding your personal safety. Appreciate that this is my 30+ years of a Paramedic / Emergency Services career 'talking' here......

CO poisoning issues are particularly insidious, where one of the major physiological effects is to alter a persons mental faculties - their judgement and problem solving capabilities, as well as making one prone to becoming sleepy and somnolent to the point that you may not have woken up last night. No 'trauma drama' or 'status dramaticus' hyperbole intended here. I've just responded to too many preventable death and disability calls from CO poisoning and structure fires over the course of my EMS career.

So, given that you have no other heat source other than your failing pellet stove, until you can at least get a combo smoke / CO alarm detector in your house, I can only in good conscience 'pull the safety card' and say you should not be running your stove, either attended or unattended, at the risk of you becoming a horrific story that we read about in your local on-line news feed. Here in the states, our local Fire Depts give away smoke and CO detectors that they get from grant money and detector manufacturer donations. I can only imagine that Canadian Fire Depts do the same, so you should contact your local FD if you can't get one on your own, TODAY, as in right now.

Call your non-emergency dispatch number and they can get you in touch with the on-call Fire Dept person. The fact that it's a weekend doesn't matter....thinking you're an inconvenience to them doesn't matter........what matters to them, and to me, and to the people on this forum, is foremost..... your personal safety. Emergency services folks particularly appreciate that denial is a powerful emotion.

Only if you can get some safety detectors in place, only then it is reasonable to try to oil your blower motor and see if that can keep your stove running until you can repair your failing blower or your new one arrives. But alternate plans to stay with area friends or family, as you said draining the water if you have to, in case the blower seizes up are certainly warranted. "Hope for the best, but *safely* and realistically plan for the worst" has got to be the mantra here, Michelle.

End of my "Paramedic" side talking ranting. We can certainly talk more about pellet stove stuff over the coming days.

Hi there,
Just read your post, thanks for expressing your thoughts and for caring. Deep inside, I know you are right so as much as I don't want to, I'll shut her down now. She has been running well all day and I appreciate the extra day of warmth, but there will be others to enjoy safely. I just hate giving up... Still, you have made your point very clear and I have a healthy respect for your opinions. I didn't make it this far by being stupid either, and what you say makes good sense. Thanks for impressing upon me the immediacy of the situation. Yes, denial is a powerful emotion. Right then, I'll drain the water and hide the dirty dishes in the cupboard for now. Or better still, do them before I drain the water. Thanks again for taking care of me. We'll talk soon.
Michelle
90 minutes to clear the driveway with a tractor? Mine is twice that with a manual 90 lb armstrong!

 

[DMKNLD]

Michelle,

Pellet stoves, dirty dishes, water pipes, cupboards........ that's all just "stuff". Fixable.... replaceable.....negotiable....... "stuff".

But for you........your safety.....your peace of mind and well being...... your beautiful Tuxedo cat in your Avatar...... (that looks like they could be a twin to our own rescued Tuxedo named Fern).... how can you put a price tag on those?

I would never say that what you're doing is giving up..... but rather letting go..... and recognizing the things that, at the end of the day, truly need to be the most important things to us.



I am serious about you contacting your local FD to pick up a combo smoke / CO detector. How close are they to you?

Our local Volunteer Fire Dept has boxes and boxes of those in their station to give out. They will gladly meet anyone from our community, at any hour of the day or night, and give them one for each floor in their residence, for free.

They'll even deliver and install them as needed, knowing that if they told someone, "we'll get it to you tomorrow", and they had to respond to that residence tonight for a fatal fire or CO poisoning call, that they would have clearly been derelict in their duty to 'protect and serve". This is what preventive community fire protection service is all about.

So call them tonight, right now. Contact your local emergency dispatcher, who always have an 'on-call' Fire Dept person they can contact 24 / 7 / 365.

Then you, your cat, your peace of mind, your pipes, your dirty dishes, hopefully even your ailing pellet stove, can all be attended to safely and with the solace that you all rightfully deserve and desire.

Godspeed in that endeavor, Michelle. We'll be in touch, OK?

 

[thegirlfromgaleairy]

Michelle,

Pellet stoves, dirty dishes, water pipes, cupboards........ that's all just "stuff". Fixable.... replaceable.....negotiable....... "stuff".

But for you........your safety.....your peace of mind and well being...... your beautiful Tuxedo cat in your Avatar...... (that looks like they could be a twin to our own rescued Tuxedo named Fern).... how can you put a price tag on those?

I would never say that what you're doing is giving up..... but rather letting go..... and recognizing the things that, at the end of the day, truly need to be the most important things to us.



I am serious about you contacting your local FD to pick up a combo smoke / CO detector. How close are they to you?

Our local Volunteer Fire Dept has boxes and boxes of those in their station to give out. They will gladly meet anyone from our community, at any hour of the day or night, and give them one for each floor in their residence, for free.

They'll even deliver and install them as needed, knowing that if they told someone, "we'll get it to you tomorrow", and they had to respond to that residence tonight for a fatal fire or CO poisoning call, that they would have clearly been derelict in their duty to 'protect and serve". This is what preventive community fire protection service is all about.

So call them tonight, right now. Contact your local emergency dispatcher, who always have an 'on-call' Fire Dept person they can contact 24 / 7 / 365.

Then you, your cat, your peace of mind, your pipes, your dirty dishes, hopefully even your ailing pellet stove, can all be attended to safely and with the solace that you all rightfully deserve and desire.

Godspeed in that endeavor, Michelle. We'll be in touch, OK?

View attachment 154932

Hi there,
Got a CO detector plugged in by the stove so things are already better. Stove is off, will take the blower out tomorrow coz things are always better in the morning. I have a couple of construction site heaters that will keep things from freezing, the cat usually sleeps with me under the covers so she will be ok too. She's a rescue in a way, she was dumped off close by coz that's what people do in the country so she came knocking at the door and informed me she would not be coyote food and was moving in. Who am I to argue? She brings me mice that I keep in the cupboard to be released in the spring. That way they don't get into trouble and don't mess up my insulation or wiring. Sounds crazy, I know, but I also know that life is both precious and challenging. All life, mine too. Help often comes when least expected and you have been a great help even from afar. Thanks again.
Michelle
Dishes are done

 

[DMKNLD]

but I also know that life is both precious and challenging. All life, mine too. Help often comes when least expected

There's an old saying in emergency services, Michelle, that medics and firefighters in particular shouldn't show their emotions, but that we do on occasion, 'get sweaty or irritated eyes'.......

Knowing a bit of your story, and reading your above post, and knowing that you are doing the right things, I'll shamelessly admit that I have something irritating my eyes right now........


We also have a couple of mission statements in my EMS service that read, "people don't care how much you know, until they know how much you care" and "your mission.......is my mission".

I'm glad that this fine forum can also have a 'culture' that is as much about caring what happens to people as it is about helping them trouble shoot their pellet stoves.........


On to the mission of fixing your pellet stove, sister !! Keep the faith !!

We'll touch base back tomorrow on how things are going, OK.

 

[thegirlfromgaleairy]

Hello!
Took the exhaust blower out again, oiled it and put it back in, and she started right up! No coaxing, no bribes, no nothing! Fantastic! She's loud but she's not whining much anymore, not singing off key, not varying in speed, so heartfelt thanks to all who suggested oiling. Thanks for empowering me. Special thanks to DMKNLD for everything, take care
Michelle

 

[thegirlfromgaleairy]

Sounds like everyone is helping you as much as possible. Only thing I will add is to stay away from caulking to replace having a gasket. You will just have a nasty mess to try and clean up later. Sounds like the new blower comes with the reusable gasket, which is good. A little 3 in1 oil will help the motor last longer. And remember, a clean stove is a happy stove, and will run better, with less problems. Hope all goes well for you. Stay warm. kap

Got it, no silicone! Thanks for the advice
Michelle

 

[thegirlfromgaleairy]

Hello,
Just thought I'd post an update on the failing exhaust blower situation:
Following great advice to take it out and oil it, I did and it ran great on 3-in-1 oil for approximately 16 hours, then started varying in speed and squeaking atonal again, so I took it out again, and this time used chainsaw bar oil to oil the bearings. It has been running for a day and a half now, although I shut the stove down when I am not around and about, and so far, the blower is spinning along nicely. The bearings still whine but it is a steady pitch, and there is no variation in the speed. It did momentarily stop without warning, but I think this may have been due to a very short interruption in hydro power, as there is one piece of evidence that the power went out and none to the contrary. Also, the control box flashed blue when it started up again, as it does when I start it up after unplugging it.
A few unknowns in my experiment to consider:
1) I may not have used enough 3-in-1 oil the first time;
2) the stove has probably not been running long enough on chainsaw bar oil to conclude that there really is a difference;
3) I probably put more chainsaw bar oil than I did 3-in-1.
So don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the chainsaw bar oil is necessarily better, just that it seems to be holding out better for me. My blower is probably quite far gone, and most people wisely change theirs before they get to this point. But extreme situations call for extreme lubricants.
Anyway, sincere thanks to everyone who suggested oiling the bearings, as I don't know that I would have otherwise since it is reportedly a no-maintenance motor. Just wanted to say "it's working!" and I am delighted. This is a wonderful forum.
Michelle
PS: Winter gives up the fight Saturday morning!

 

[SidecarFlip]

Chainsaw bar oil has a higher viscosity... it's thicker so it 'clings' better. Will be spring soon... Fingers (and toes) crossed.

 

[thegirlfromgaleairy]

My reasoning also. I was interested at "formulated to effectively lubricate and cool the cutting chain (liked the cool part since the blower is always dealing with heat), reduce friction and wear, and protect against rust" but sold at "Contains a tackifier which increases the adherence of the oil to the blade". Never knew "tackifier" was even a word!
M

 

[kappel15]

Hope your new blower shows up soon. kap

 

[thegirlfromgaleairy]

Thanks, so do I! It left Nevada City around 5 pm tonight apparently, so it's looking promising!
Michelle

 

[DMKNLD]

Hi Michelle,

Glad to hear your Quad is still up and running. Great idea to try the higher viscosity chain bar oil. In the longer term, being more 'sticky', it would likely attract more dust, thus more heat than the lighter 3-in-1 oil, but it's the way to go for stop-gap use, hoping to keep the thing alive until your new one shows up. You'll be amazed how quiet and efficient your new blower will be - no more ear protection necessary to be in the same room ! You should also see more efficient pellet combustion and less ash build-up, given a new blower is working at peak efficiency. It's the heart of your pellet burning beast !

Good idea as well, IMO, to go OEM vs after-market. They're more $$$, as is anything when you buy 'proprietary' Quad parts, but we hear of allot of problems with after-market motors; not having the correct cfm, either by being under-powered, or having fewer fan blades than the originals, cheaper windings, electrical connections that don't match up, etc. The aftermarkets also often need new holes drilled in the blower housing to mount them, typically in confined spaces to try to drill, etc. I've also read of cheap after-market motors burning out within the same season they were installed. Imagine having your same stove hassles again a 2nd time in the same burning season ?

So when it comes to the critical component reliability demands that a combustion blower puts on pellet stove functioning, 'you get what you pay for' it seems. "You chose wisely, grasshopper......."

Did you end up using a small syringe to inject your bar oil into the bearing ports? One advantage of working in the medical field is having access to those, as otherwise they can be hard to get a hold of. I've heard of folks using small dropper syringes like you get with over-the-counter liquid medicines, but it's harder to get good pressure with those.

Were the bearing ports on your motor in about the same place as the pic I sent you on an earlier post ? I assume you had to take off the protective plastic cover to get to the oiling ports? Besides oiling the bearing ports, I oiled the motor shaft as well to help my squeaky blower until the new one came. The 3-in-1 oil hung in there OK for mine - luckily it was just starting to fail at the end of the burn season, when I would have taken it out to do an end-of-season cleaning anyway.

Hopefully you are getting a break from the extreme cold temps, like we are here in the NE today. At 5AM, my Quad just cycled off, which shows how relatively warm it is for this early in the morning. After weeks of early AM single and double digit below 0F temps - a most welcome change ! Maybe spring will finally start to show up after all this month - bring it on !

Cheers,

DK

 

[SidecarFlip]

My reasoning also. I was interested at "formulated to effectively lubricate and cool the cutting chain (liked the cool part since the blower is always dealing with heat), reduce friction and wear, and protect against rust" but sold at "Contains a tackifier which increases the adherence of the oil to the blade". Never knew "tackifier" was even a word!
M

It's not, like many 'words' in the English language, made up for the moment..... The correct term is boundary lubrication or the ability for an oil to remain on a surface and lubricate under high friction conditions.

I use Stihl Bar oil in my saws but I use Mobil Vactra VG30 or Harig Way oil on the machine slideways in the shop.

Hopefully your new CA unit shows up.

 

[3650]

Don't throw the old one away. When you are feeling ambitious you can pull the bearings out of it and replace them. Any bearing shop with be able to measure them for you and find a suitable replacement. Then you will have a back up on hand for an emergency. BTW you might get a little more mileage out of a synthetic lubricant.

 

[thegirlfromgaleairy]

Hi Michelle,

Glad to hear your Quad is still up and running. Great idea to try the higher viscosity chain bar oil. In the longer term, being more 'sticky', it would likely attract more dust, thus more heat than the lighter 3-in-1 oil, but it's the way to go for stop-gap use, hoping to keep the thing alive until your new one shows up. You'll be amazed how quiet and efficient your new blower will be - no more ear protection necessary to be in the same room ! You should also see more efficient pellet combustion and less ash build-up, given a new blower is working at peak efficiency. It's the heart of your pellet burning beast !

Good idea as well, IMO, to go OEM vs after-market. They're more $$$, as is anything when you buy 'proprietary' Quad parts, but we hear of allot of problems with after-market motors; not having the correct cfm, either by being under-powered, or having fewer fan blades than the originals, cheaper windings, electrical connections that don't match up, etc. The aftermarkets also often need new holes drilled in the blower housing to mount them, typically in confined spaces to try to drill, etc. I've also read of cheap after-market motors burning out within the same season they were installed. Imagine having your same stove hassles again a 2nd time in the same burning season ?

So when it comes to the critical component reliability demands that a combustion blower puts on pellet stove functioning, 'you get what you pay for' it seems. "You chose wisely, grasshopper......."

Did you end up using a small syringe to inject your bar oil into the bearing ports? One advantage of working in the medical field is having access to those, as otherwise they can be hard to get a hold of. I've heard of folks using small dropper syringes like you get with over-the-counter liquid medicines, but it's harder to get good pressure with those.

Were the bearing ports on your motor in about the same place as the pic I sent you on an earlier post ? I assume you had to take off the protective plastic cover to get to the oiling ports? Besides oiling the bearing ports, I oiled the motor shaft as well to help my squeaky blower until the new one came. The 3-in-1 oil hung in there OK for mine - luckily it was just starting to fail at the end of the burn season, when I would have taken it out to do an end-of-season cleaning anyway.

Hopefully you are getting a break from the extreme cold temps, like we are here in the NE today. At 5AM, my Quad just cycled off, which shows how relatively warm it is for this early in the morning. After weeks of early AM single and double digit below 0F temps - a most welcome change ! Maybe spring will finally start to show up after all this month - bring it on !

Cheers,

DK

Hi there,
Glad you were not insulted that I tried a variation of the 3-in-1 theme! I did not think of the extra dirt that would get into there, so I will keep an eye on it (inasmuch as I can) - thanks for pointing that out. Neither did I oil the shaft, also something I can improve on. The plastic cover keeps it protected from too much dirt, but not from dust.
I should have taken a picture when I took out the motor, and if there is any interest I can when the new one comes in (notice I used "when", not "if"!), but essentially, when the plastic cover comes off (4 nuts 11/32), the bearings are visible, no oil ports per say. The top one is easily reached with a 2cc syringe, no needle, but that is not the most critical one I believe. So, syringe for that one. The lower one, closer to the fan blades, is tighter. Typically, I lose the red straw that comes with the can of WD40, otherwise that would have worked well to get into there (long enough to blow out the oil, although not much pressure obtained), so instead, I snipped the ends of a Qtip (plastic core) and used that... Mickey Mouse, I know but... they are an integral part of my tool box, along with a couple of old toothbrushes and some lipstick, just in case I need to make a temporary gasket (rub lipstick on the surface that needs a gasket, then place a piece of paper on top and rub again, you wind up with a nice imprint of the surface on the paper, cut that out and you have a template of your gasket, transfer to whatever gasket material you want). Ok, that's probably too much information, apologies. But honestly, it's great stuff, great coverage! Anyway, I just kept adding oil, spinning the blades, went at it from both sides with the oil until it was almost dripping from the bearing, wiped off the excess oil and reinstalled.
I think you're right about OEM parts: the right part is expensive but the wrong part is even more expensive. And I've always been a sucker for quality design, tools, parts. "Quality can't be defined, but everyone recognizes it" (Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance). You might not believe it if you saw my house, but the property is what I fell in love with, 22 acres, 2 ponds and a stream ... far enough from any neighbours to actually be glad to see them ... room to breathe? It was time to stop running away anyway, and put down some roots. So I am the only one to blame for my environment cos I chose it albeit naively. Denial, denial ... complaining won't help me now! However, I believe you when you mention the silence of the new blower, indeed that will be an extremely refreshing change! On the bright side, the ear protection keeps my ears warm!
I think that covers it for the moment. Three more cold nights, then things should warm up and stay warmer, even down in Maine. And the geese will come back. That's when I know for sure spring is close and winter is retreating. It just makes it all easier! Glad you got some respite today, 5 am? Up with the sun, just about. Good on you. It was warm in Morrisburg today also; I recklessly left the water on when I went to work!!
Wishing everyone's spare parts were on the way, be safe!
Michelle